Navigational Marker Minutes 05/29/2009 W
May 29, 2009
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE NA VIGA TIONAL
MARKERS FOR, AND NA VIGA TION ON, CLAM
PASS/CLAM BAY
Naples, Florida, May 29,2009
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, the following individuals for Navigational
Markers For, and Navigation On, Clam Pass/Clam Bay in and for the
County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met in a WORKSHOP
SESSION on this date at 9:00 AM, at Building "B" Human Resources
Conference Room of the Collier County Government Complex, Naples,
Florida with the following present:
Collier County Staff
Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager
Jeff Klatzkow, County Attorney
Colleen Greene, Assistant County Attorney
Gary McAlpin, Director, Coastal Zone Management
Pelican Bay Foundation
Rich Y ovanovich, Attorney
Steve Feldhaus
Seagate Homeowners Assoc.
Ernest Wu
Robert Rogers
Clam Bay Advisory Group
J ames Carroll, Chairman
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Collier County Government
Communication &
Customer Relations Department
3301 East Tamiami Trail
Naples, FL 34112
May 26, 2009
(239) 252-8848
www.colliergov.net
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PUBLIC MEETING TO DISCUSS
NAVIGATIONAL MARKERS FOR, AND NAVIGATION ON,
CLAM PASS/CLAM BAY
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
FRIDAY, MAY 29, 2009
9:00 a.m. to 11 :30 a.m.
A public meeting will be held to Discuss Navigatiollal Markers for, alld Navigatioll 011, Clam
Pass/Clam Bay on Friday, May 29th at 9:00 a.m. at 3301 Tamiami Trail E., Building B,
Human Resource Conference Room, Naples.
Two or more members of the Coastal Advisory Committee may be present and may participate
at the meeting. The subject matter of this meeting may be a future item for discussion and
action at a Coastal Advisory Committee meeting.
Two or more members of the Clam Bay Advisory Committee may be present and may
participate at the meeting. The subject matter of this meeting may be a future item for
discussion and action at a Clam Bay Advisory Committee meeting.
Two or more members of the Tourist Development Council may be present and may participate
at the meeting. The subject matter of this meeting may be a future item for discussion and
action at a Tourist Development Council meeting.
This meeting is open to the public.
If you are a person with a disability who needs any accommodation in order to participate in
this proceeding, you are entitled, at no cost to you, to the provision of certain assistance. Please
contact the Collier County Facilities Management Department located at 3301 E. Tamiami
Trail, Naples, FL 34112, (239) 252-8380 at least two days prior to the meeting. Assisted
listening devices for the hearing impaired are available in the Board of County Commissioners
Office.
For more information, call Gail Hambright in the Coastal Zone Management office at 252-
2966.
-End-
May 29, 2009
Jeff Klatzkow, County Attorney stated the meeting was initiated at the direction of the
Board of County Commissioners (from an item that appeared on their agenda for a
decision regarding proposed aids to navigation in Clam Pass/Clam Bay) to determine if
consensus could be reached between the County, the Seagate Community and the Pelican
Bay Community regarding the placement of the "aids to navigation" in Clam Pass/Clam
Bay.
If consensus cannot be reached, the item will return to the Board of County
Commissioners (BCC) for a decision.
He noted Staff has recommended a plan for the placement of the "aids to navigation" for
approval by the BCC and the County Attorney supports Staffs recommendation.
Rich Y ovanovich, Attorney for Pelican Bay Foundation highlighted the following:
· The Foundation is concerned that Staffs recommendation to place red and
green US Coast Guard approved "aids to navigation" may encourage
boaters unfamiliar with the System to enter, causing safety concerns.
· The Foundation is not sure the legal ramifications of utilizing these type of
markers and is concerned the placement of them may lead to "navigational
dredging" of the system.
· The Foundation supports the placement of "informational signs" to aid in,
navigation of the system, as opposed to the red and green US Coast Guard
approved markers.
The Foundation proposes the following:
· To allow placement of the "informational signs" for navigational
purposes.
· Identify the existing depths in the area of the system utilized for
navigation and guarantee the Seagate Community the right to the depths
(controlling depths) for navigational purposes in the future.
This would ensure the Seagate Community maintains its current "level of boating
service" for the future.
Jeff Klatzkow noted the County is "indifferent" to the type of signage/markers placed in
the System as long as the permitting Agencies approve the placement ofthe markers
enabling the County to "close out the permit."
It was noted the US Army Corps of Engineers indicated, in writing, the permit issued
requires the placement of US Coast Guard approved "aids to navigation" in the System.
In addition, indicated the permit could be modified if requested. To date, no modification
has been requested.
Jim Carroll, Chairman, Clam Bay Advisory Committee read a statement into the
record, which indicated:
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May 29,2009
. The goals in relation to the issue are maintaining an environmentally
healthy Estuary and provide continued "small boat" access to the Gulf of
Mexico for the Seagate Community.
. Recommends placement of the US Coast Guard approved red and green
"aids to navigation" as proposed.
. Recommended a statement or Resolution from the BCC and City of
Naples be approved which indicates in the event of a storm or major
hurricane, the channel shall be restored to the same navigability that
existed before the Storm.
. Establishing controlling depths is not necessary and opens the door for
dredging in Clam Bay, which should not be permitted.
. Dredging for the purposes of "tidal flushing" is separate from the issue of
navigational dredging.
. The fear of the red and green markers leading to "navigational dredging"
is at this point, unfounded.
. Maintaining the Estuary is in the interest of both communities and the
issues should be addressed together.
Steve Feldhaus, Pelican Bay Foundation requested clarification on the reasons for
placing the US Coast Guard approved red and green navigation markers as opposed to
"informational signs" for navigation. He noted the Foundation is willing to enter into a
binding agreement as proposed by Mr. Y ovanovich. The residents of Pelican Bay are
concerned with future dredging activities that may occur within the system.
Ernest Wu/Robert Rogers Seagate Community noted the following:
. The waterway is a navigable waterway as defined by the US Army Corps
of Engineers (USACE).
. For safety and navigability reasons, the "aids to navigation" should be US
Coast Guard approved markers.
. Expressed concern certain individuals do not believe the waterway is a
navigable waterway as defined by the USACE.
. The permit required the markers be placed, which protected the rights of
the Seagate community.
Jeff Klatzkow noted Pelican Bay Foundation's position is they have veto power over any
dredging in the system and reiterated they are proposing to the residents of Seagate' s long
term assurance, if dredging is required for navigation of the system to today's standards,
(present level of service for boating) it will be allowed.
Rich Y ovanovich asserted the signs or "markers" required in the permit were not for
"aid to navigation," rather to ensure environmental protection of the System.
Steve Feldhaus added the permit does not mention signs in Outer Clam Bay as now
proposed. Signs cannot be placed in the System without permission from the Pelican Bay
Foundation and the Foundation will not allow red and green markers.
Ernest Wu requested clarification if the veto power asserted by Mr. Feldhaus is correct.
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May 29, 2009
Jeff Klatzkow noted the Foundation's and a County's interpretation of the restrictions
differs, but was not the issue for discussion at the Workshop.
Discussion occurred if the residents of Pelican Bay agree the waterway is a navigable
waterway. Again it was noted that was not the issue at the Workshop.
Rich Y ovanovich noted the proposal to be considered is for "informational signs" as
proposed by the Pelican Bay Foundation with assurance for the existing level of boating
service in the System for Seagate residents.
Robert Rogers requested clarification if there is an actual design plan for alternate signs.
Rich Y ovanovich noted there have been proposed signs designed for the locations
proposed which could be submitted to the Seagate Community for approval.
Ernest Wu requested clarification on the reason for resistance by the Foundation's
agreeing the waterway meets the definition of navigable water.
Jeff Klatzkow noted the Pelican Bay Foundation is concerned the System could then be
dredged to allow access for "large ships."
Steve Feldhaus noted the proposed agreement would in writing binding the Pelican Bay
Foundation.
Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager requested clarification if the Pelican Bay
Foundation asserts it could restrict boater's access to the Gulf.
Steve Feldhaus stated this is not the position of the Pelican Bay Foundation; rather they
could prevent dredging activities to open the channel due to natural activities, which may
block the channel for navigation.
Robert Rogers asked if the Pelican Bay Foundation could provide a written proposal to
the Seagate Community.
Steve Feldhaus noted it could be provided by early next week.
Discussion occurred noting the proposed placement of the "aids to navigations" were
properly vetted and approved by the Clam Bay Advisory Group and the Coastal Advisory
Committee through public hearings.
Steve Feldhaus provided an overview of the history ofthe Clam Bay property noting it
was private property until 1982 when it was deeded to the County with the restrictions
required by the County to protect Clam Bay. The metes and bounds description of the
property deeded to the County includes the waters in the System.
Mr. Carroll requested clarification why the parties favor or oppose the red and green US
Coast Guard markers and do they feel this awards them certain rights versus
"informational signs."
Mr. Feldhaus expressed concern that the Pelican Bay Foundation has offered Seagate
the assurance for boating rights as they exist now, but the Seagate community is resisting
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May 29, 2009
the offer. He questions if the Seagate residents feel the red and green markers will ensure
certain parameters for maintaining navigational rights (rights to dredge, etc.).
Discussion ensued on how other similar shallow Estuaries in the County are marked for
navigation.
Mr. Rogers noted some of the residents of Seagate feel the red and green "aids to
navigation" approved by the US Coast Guard, ensure certain possible (unknown) rights.
A determination of these rights (if any) would need to be investigated.
Break - 10: lOam
Reconvene - 10:25am
Jim Carroll sought clarification on what the colored markers mean to the Seagate
residents.
Robert Rogers stated he was unsure, but felt the US Coast Guard utilizes the markers for
reasons (boating safety, etc). He stated just as the Seagate resident's objections to the
"informational signs" causes concerns for the Pelican Bay Community, the Pelican Bay
Community's objection to the red and green markers is a cause for concern to the Seagate
residents. An investigation needs to be completed with the Agency to determine the
purpose of the markers.
Jeff Klatzkow noted the following in conclusion:
1. The Pelican Bay Foundation will provide a proposed agreement to the Seagate
Homeowners Assoc.
2. If an agreement is obtained, it will be provided to the County Attorney who will
post it online for public view.
3. The agreement will be brought forward to the BCC for review under the
continued agenda item.
4. If an agreement is not reached, the continued item will be placed on a Board of
County Commission agenda for a decision.
Leo Ochs noted the agreement needs to be received by County Staff by June 2, 2009 for
placement on the June 9, 2009 BCC meeting agenda. There is no deadline for the item
and it may be continued.
Being no further business for the good of the County, the Workshop concluded
at 10:39 A.M.
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