CLB Minutes 05/20/2009 R
May 20, 2009
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
OF COLLIER COUNTY
Naples, Florida
May 20, 2009
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing
Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with
the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Richard Joslin
Michael Boyd
Eric Guite'
Lee Horn
Terry J erulle
Kyle Lantz
Thomas Lykos
Patrick White
ALSO PRESENT:
Patrick Neale, Attorney for the Board
Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney
Ian Jackson, Licensing Compliance Officer
Page 1
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
DATE: WEDNESDAY - MAY 20,2009
TIME: 9:00 A.M.
W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION BUILDING)
COURTHOUSE COMPLEX
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
DATE: MARCH 18, 2009
V. DISCUSSION:
William C. Daubmann D/B/A: Mr. Shower Door
VI. NEW BUSINESS:
Roger P. Boucher - Contesting Citation
Michael Vecchio - Contesting Citation
Alberto Trevino - Contesting Citation
Scott S. Billings - Reinstatement of License W/O Retesting
Ron Palmer - Waiver of Examination(s)
VII. OLD BUSINESS:
Calvert N. Courtney II - Third Party Balance Sheet & Profit Loss Statement
VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Case #2009-05
Charles C. Willey
D/B/A: B & W Paving Contractors of S.w. FL., Inc.
Case #2009-06
Bobby J. Phillips Jr.
D/B/A: Bob's Air Conditioning - Refrigeration, Inc.
IX. REPORTS:
X. NEXT MEETING DATE:
WEDNESDAY JUNE 17, 2009
W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING, 3RD FLOOR
(COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM)
3301 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL
NAPLES, FL. 34112
(COURTHOUSE COMPLEX)
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'd like to call to order -- good morning,
by the way -- the May 20th meeting of the Collier County Contractor
Licensing Board.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and therefore may
need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made,
which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the
appeal is to be based.
I'd like to start the meeting with my roll call to my right.
MR. JERULLE: Terry Jerulle.
MR. LANTZ: Kyle Lantz.
MR. L YKOS: Tom Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Richard Joslin.
MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'.
MR. WHITE: Patrick White.
MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd.
MR. HORN: Lee Horn.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Staff, is there any additions or deletions
to the agenda?
MR. JACKSON: Good morning. For the record, Ian Jackson,
License Compliance Officer.
We have a number of additions and deletions, if the board would
bear with me.
Under discussion, an addition. We would like to discuss a new
member orientation for the board, if so inclined.
Again, under discussion, a deletion of William C. Daubmann,
Mr. Shower Door.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can we move the discussion for the
orientation till maybe later in the meeting?
MR. JACKSON: If that would please the board, that's fine with
me.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That way we can move the meeting
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May 20, 2009
along. Okay.
I need a motion to approve the additions or deletions.
MR. JACKSON: We have more.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: More, I'm sorry.
MR. JACKSON: Under new business, we need to add an order
to pay civil penalties.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: An order to pay civil penalties?
MR. JACKSON: Correct. The citations that weren't paid that we
did a couple months ago.
A deletion of Roger P. Boucher, the contesting of the citation.
And an addition of Sonia Pajaro, a review of credit report. And if
approved by the board, I have documentation to distribute to the board
members for that review.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: What was the name again?
MR. JACKSON: Sonia, S-O-N-I-A. Pajaro, P-A-J-A-R-O. And
again, that's a review of credit report for a new license.
And under public hearings, Case No. 2009-05, there's been a
resolution where the board would still have to hear the resolution, and
it's requested that we move that before new business so we can get that
out of the way, if so inclined.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: And those are all the additions and deletions.
MR. L YKOS: Motion to accept the additions and deletions.
MR. GUITE': Seconded, Guite'.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion and a second on the
floor. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
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May 20, 2009
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Moving right along. I need approval to -- motion to approve the
agenda ( sic) from the March 18th meeting. Any additions or
corrections anyone has found?
MR. L YKOS: The minutes?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The minutes, I'm sorry. Agenda.
MR. L YKOS: So moved, Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I need a second.
MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second. All in favor?
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Under discussion, is there a William C. Daubmann?
MR. L YKOS: No, that was --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Oh, I'm sorry. New member orientation.
We'll move right into new business then.
MR. L YKOS: We approve the resolution for Case 2009-05 at
this time. That was one of the approvals that we made.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
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May 20, 2009
MR. JACKSON: Where that will be heard briefly by the board,
however.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: In front of everything else?
MR. L YKOS: Right.
MR. JACKSON: In front of everything else, if so inclined, yes.
MR. WHITE: I certainly would like to hear it, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would Mr. Willey, Charles C. Willey
come before the board, please. Come to the podium, be sworn in.
MR. HAZZARD: Good morning, board members. Good
morning, Mr. Chairman. My name is Bill Hazzard from Coleman,
Hazzard and Taylor, and I represent Mr. Willey and his company,
B&W Paving.
Thank you all for your time here this morning.
Good morning, Terry, how are you?
MR. JERULLE: Good.
MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, Robert Zachary, for the record,
with the county attorney's office.
Mr. Hazzard and I have an agreement that Mr. Willey will admit
to a violation of the workers' compo provision in our ordinance, and
that in exchange for that admission he will be on probation, and staff
will supervise his payroll for a year on probation and he would pay a
$1,000 fine. That would be the resolution for -- if it's acceptable to the
board.
MR. HAZZARD: And gentlemen, if I just might comment, that's
consistent with the fact that Mr. Willey and his company went through
a comprehensive workers compo audit last summer, the conclusion of
which was that they found that one employee, none of the
complaining parties, that one person who was a part-time person was
not appropriately classified as an employee, and they administered a
$1,000 fine, which has since been paid.
MR. JERULLE: Who is they?
MR. HAZZARD: The workers' compo audit.
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May 20, 2009
MR. JERULLE: The state?
MR. HAZZARD: The state, right.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And that was only one employee that
was involved in this?
MR. HAZZARD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Only one?
MR. HAZZARD: Yeah, A part-timer.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: This is approved by the county, right, in
agreement?
MR. ZACHARY: Yes, that's acceptable.
MR. JERULLE: So just to sum up, you did a state workmen's
compo review, one violation, a $1,000 fine, an agreement -- so-called
tentative agreement with the county now for one-year probation, and a
$1,000 fine?
MR. NEALE: And just I would make a suggestion, one further
addition, that the board also incorporates a recommendation, no
further action to the State Construction Industry Licensing Board as
well.
MR. HAZZARD: Thank you, Mr. Neale.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Neale, can you recall previous fines that
we've levied for workers' camp. violations? That $1,000 doesn't seem
in line with what we've been doing in the recent past.
MR. NEALE: In the past -- I could look at what we've done,
what the board has done.
In the past, the board has ranged -- depending on the severity of
the infraction, I believe the fines have ranged anywhere from the
1,000, $1,500 range up to the maximum of 10,000.
But typically they've been -- in a single violation type of incident
they've been at the lower end of the range. It's on the more egregious
cases where the board's gone to the higher end of the range.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: At this time it's probably in
recommendation that we take the county attorney's advice.
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May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: One question, Mr. Chairman. Question, Mr.
Chairman?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
MR. WHITE: Being new, not familiar whether it's typical to
inquire of the staff as to whether there were any costs relative to the
prosecution of the matter and whether consideration of payment of
those are part of the process or not, I just look for some direction
either from counselor the staff in that regard, as well as the other
board members.
MR. NEALE: Mr. White, what -- typically that's one of the
penalties that's reviewed by the board in an action. Typically when
there's a stipulated settlement, the staff has also looked at what their
investigative costs have been and decided that those are either
incorporated in the fine or small enough that they waive the cost. So it
would be something if this was a full hearing, they would put it on.
But typically for costs to be put forth there has to be evidence on the
record by the county staff as to the costs incurred.
MR. WHITE: Understood. That would be essentially then part of
the workout and resolution of the matter.
MR. NEALE: Right.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If this is all agreeable to the board
members, then I'm going to need a motion to accept the resolution.
MR. L YKOS: I have another question, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry, go ahead.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Neale, typically the purpose of the fines that
we levy are -- let me make sure I say this properly -- our intention is
that the fine is in excess of what the defendant would have had to pay
had they followed up with their workers' compo in a proper manner, so
that it's a deterrent for that contractor and any other person that might
hear about this case to avoid paying workers' compo and
misclassifying their employees or whatever it is that led them to be in
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May 20, 2009
front of us.
Is that the situation in this case? Is the fine in excess of what Mr.
Willey would have paid had he filed his workers' compo reports
correctly and had workers' camp. on that employee?
MR. NEALE: You know, my view on this one is that there's
been no evidence put on either side as to what the cost was. I think
when the board views a stipulated settlement, which the board has
done in the past numerous times, they typically look at that as being a
manner in which both parties, both the county staff and county
attorney's off -- well, all three parties, county staff, county attorney's
office as their counsel and the respondent have all negotiated a
settlement that all parties feel is a fair disposition of the matter, that
the punishment fits the crime and that it resolves the matter in a way
that is just to all parties.
MR. JERULLE: When you say the county, that included staff?
MR. NEALE: I would imagine. I think staff is certainly--
MR. JACKSON: I was included in the discussion.
MR. L YKOS: Ian, is it your recommendation that we accept this
settlement?
MR. JACKSON: It is.
MR. L YKOS: Thank you.
MR. WHITE: Point of clarification about the amendment that
Mr. Neale proposed with regards to the Contractor Licensing Board
making a finding or determination with respect to no action. Would
that be made at this point in time or would it be at the conclusion of
the year's probation? Just again not familiar with the process.
MR. NEALE: That typically is done at the time the original
order is entered. As part of the entry of an order in a matter like this,
one of the findings the board has to make is what recommendation to
make to the State Construction Industry Licensing Board.
In this case they would make no recommendation. Now, ifit was
reopened because of a violation of the probation, then the board can
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May 20, 2009
reopen the case in full and also look at whether there's another
recommendation he may make to the state.
MR. WHITE: I appreciate the clarification. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're welcome.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Then I will need a motion to accept the
resolution that was provided by the county and the respondent B& W
Paving Contractors.
MR. L YKOS: I make a motion to approve the resolution
proposed by the county, with the amendment that we recommend no
further action be taken by the State Department of Building and
Professional Regulation.
MR. JERULLE: Second, Jerulle.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second.
All those that accept this, please signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
MR. HAZZARD: Thank you, gentlemen.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're quite welcome.
Good luck to you, Mr. Willey.
MR. WILLEY: Thank you, sir.
Page 9
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is there a Mr. Vecchio? Michael
Vecchio?
MR. VECCHIO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Could you please come to the podium to
be sworn in, please.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Also, would I bring to the podium Mr.
Ian Jackson, be sworn in, please, if you have not been already.
MR. JACKSON: I was.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Jackson, you issued a violation -- a
citation, I'm sorry, No. 4567 to a Michael Vecchio?
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you please describe what the
citation was involved with, what was to be found?
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Vecchio had a contract, a written or
unwritten, with a homeowner, Mr. Thomas Ingram, at 8386 Indian
Wells Way, where I observed Mr. Vecchio pressure cleaning a roof,
which requires a competency card, which Mr. Vecchio does not have.
Based on the information at the job site, I issued the citation, and
stopped the work.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Vecchio, would you like to respond
to that citation charge?
MR. VECCHIO: Yes, sir. Everything he said was correct. I was
there working. I have been doing this off and on as kind of a part-time
thing on the side for the last couple of years, mostly doing jobs for
neighbors within my development, within my neighborhood.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If I could stop you one moment. Could
you get just a little closer to the microphone, please.
MR. VECCHIO: Sure.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you very much.
MR. VECCHIO: Is that better?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's better.
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May 20, 2009
MR. VECCHIO: As I say, I've been doing this off and on for a
few years, small time jobs, mostly for residents in my neighborhood, a
lot of elderly people that live in my neighborhood. It's a small
community, 44 homes.
About four or five years ago I initially took out the license to do
the business. At no time I was never referred -- you know, related to
me that I needed to have a special license to do -- to be up on roofs, as
Mr. Jackson told me. As I found out after the fact when he -- when we
did speak after I came off the roof he said, you can do anything you
want from the ground as far as pressure washing and cleaning and
things like that, but once you step foot on a roof, you need to have a
special contractor's license for that.
I had no idea. I've been doing this, like I said, off and on for
about four or five years. When I initially took out my license, nothing
was ever mentioned to me in the licensing form that I filled out, nor
was anything ever mentioned to me subsequent to that time. And I've
been paying my normal county licensing fee every year through the
county just to keep it going.
Like I say, it's only a part-time thing. I have, you know a real -- I
have a real job. This is just something that I do mostly just to help out
the neighbors, more so than anything else.
So once he told me that, I stopped, got off the roof. No
complaints. I understand. But -- and I'm not -- you know, ignorance is
not an excuse; I'm not making an excuse for what I did. What I did
was wrong. He pointed out -- Mr. Jackson pointed out to me that what
I did was wrong.
I really absolutely had no idea what I was doing was wrong,
because I thought I had been doing the right thing all along all these
years by when I got my letter in the mail every year to pay my
licensing fee, I just kept paying it and thinking I was doing the right
thing. It was never relayed to me that I needed to do more.
So that's -- I just thought I was doing the right thing all along.
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May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Let me ask staff real quick. Does staff
have a way of recommending what the license is when they go and
apply for it?
MR. JACKSON: When Mr. Vecchio is describing the license
that he's kept up, I don't want the board to mistake the term license for
a business tax. Mr. Vecchio has a business tax, which is, as we know,
a tax to conduct business in the county, which has been kept up.
So I want to make sure that the board understands that there is
no license, it's a business tax receipt. And specifically it shows for a
detailing service. I hope that --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's what I read into it also.
MR. JACKSON: Okay.
MR. WHITE: May I ask staff?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
MR. WHITE: Are you referring to the business tax, is that
something that might otherwise be known as an occupational license?
MR. JACKSON: It was previously known as an occupational
license.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Which in realty was never a license or an
occupational license.
MR. WHITE: Understood.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Always been a business tax.
MR. WHITE: I'm glad it's been clarified, believe me.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right, okay.
Any other comments from the board?
MR. LANTZ: I'm just wondering, have you obtained a license
now or in the process of obtaining one?
MR. VECCHIO: I had thought about doing that, but I've gotten
to the point where I've decided to not even -- I have another job. I'm a
firefighter by profession, so that keeps me very busy. I have a
newborn child at home; I have a lot of things going on in my life, so --
and plus with the -- you know, I just decided at this time it was time to
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May 20, 2009
step down and stop doing it, because being up on roofs and doing that
kind of stuff is dangerous, it's dirty work, it's -- you know, can be
potentially dangerous.
So I decided -- when I spoke to Mr. Jackson at that point, me and
my wife sat down over the next couple of days or so and we made the
decision that we're not going to -- I'm not going to do any more
pressure washing at all unless it's my own house. Other than that, I
won't be doing anything else. I have no more desire to do it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But you stated that you did it for the past
three or four years without knowledge or without understanding the
knowledge of what license you needed to have in order to do that?
MR. VECCHIO: That is correct, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm waiting for a motion.
MR. L YKOS: I make a motion to uphold the citation.
MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion and a second to uphold
the citation No. 4567.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries. The fine is in line.
MR. VECCHIO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I believe there is a 30-day time span in
which to pay this also.
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May 20, 2009
MR. VECCHIO: Yes, okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is there an Alberto Trevino present?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No.
Mr. Trevino was served properly as far as to be here, or he
contested the citation?
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Trevino initiated the hearing due to a
citation that was issued.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Then I'm going to need a motion to
uphold the citation then.
MR. GUITE': I'll make a motion to uphold.
MR. BOYD: Second, Boyd.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second on the floor to
uphold the citation for an Alberto Trevino.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Can Mr. Trevino have some type of a letter or -- sent to him?
MR. JACKSON: When Mr. Trevino -- typically when he would
come into the office and deliver the letter asking for the hearing, he
would be given a letter stating that he is on the agenda for this
meeting.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
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May 20, 2009
MR. NEALE: And actually, in the packet there's a copy of the
agenda of the letter to him saying that he was advised.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: He was advised, okay. Just for the
record.
All right, we have a Scott Billings. Scott S. Billings, sorry, are
you present?
Please come to the podium to be sworn in.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Billings, you're before us today to
reinstate a license without retesting for a tile and marble -- no, I'm
sorry, excuse me, Elite Flooring Company of Naples?
MR. BILLINGS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you like to express a little bit of
why you're here?
MR. BILLINGS: Yeah, approximately five years ago I ran into
an issue with a contractor not paying me, which hurt me for about
$400,000, so I had to declare business bankruptcy. So in turn I just
started a new business.
My wife owns this business, Kelli Eastman. And in turn, I just
really wasn't keeping up watching what my staff was paying the bills,
paying the occupational license or business tax, and didn't realize my
actual competency card wasn't kept up for the last couple of years.
We do mainly high-end hotel/resorts all over the country, and
just didn't catch that I wasn't paying this one, so I'm just trying to get it
reinstated without retesting. We continually do lots of work all over.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: When's the last time the business was
actually licensed?
MR. BILLINGS: In this county?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Uh-huh.
MR. BILLINGS: I think we've just missed a year. And I went to
see that it was up to date and found out it was not.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Staff, what's the normal procedure,i
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May 20, 2009
normal time span for a license to be reinstated without retesting? Is it
two years?
MR. JACKSON: The license would be considered suspended for
one year where it could be renewed with penalties. If the license
holder had tested within three years, testing would not be required.
But the entire application process would have to be completed: Credit
report, experience affidavits, everything excluding testing.
Mr. Billings tested in 2000, which is obviously more than three
years, and per the code testing is required because of the over three
years since he tested.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. I'm seeing in the packet that there
is a test score section in here, but there's nothing filled out of the test
scores that he did take. When that was, in 2000, I guess. I have a blank
page. Unless I have a blank page that no one else has.
MR. GUITE': How long have you lived in Naples?
MR. BILLINGS: I've been here 12 years. Just to kind offill in a
little more, I do -- currently my license is active in Lee County,
Charlotte County, Monroe, Dade, Broward County. I've got my
license in like 12 or 15 counties and do work there. I just haven't had it
in -- you know, sometimes I have the opportunity to do work here, and
it just happens to be that I haven't in the last few years here.
MR. GUITE': And this is your home county?
MR. BILLINGS: Oh, yes, sir.
MR. GUITE': And you've renewed it everywhere else except
here.
MR. BILLINGS: My staff was taking care of it, our girl in our
office. And I just didn't realize -- actually, Lee County was (sic) at the
same time didn't get renewed, but I went in front of their board and
they just reinstated it, so -- and that was a month ago or two months
ago.
MR. NEALE: Just for the board's information, what I would
suggest is the relevant section of the Collier County ordinance, and
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May 20, 2009
this is Section 2.5.3, which reads in part, the Contractor Licensing
Board shall take testimony from the applicant and shall consider other
relevant evidence regarding whether the applicant meets the
requirements of the ordinance. Upon the evidence presented by the
applicant and the Contractor Licensing Supervisor, the Contractors
Licensing Board shall determine whether the applicant is qualified or
unqualified for the trade in which the application has been made.
Findings of fact and conclusions of law regarding the approval
or denial of the application shall be made by the Contractor Licensing
Board. The board may consider the applicant's relevant recent
experience in the specific trade and based upon such experience may
waive testing requirements if convinced that the applicant is qualified
by experience, whereby such competency testing would be
superfluous.
So that's the relevant point for this matter.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Also, Mr. Neale, if I can ask you, in the
packet we have several items on here that are very derogatory
regarding tax liens. Can you iterate a little bit on why or --
MR. BILLINGS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- what's going on with those?
MR. BILLINGS: That -- as you see, I've gotten a lawyer
involved with that too, and actually he's supposed to be here today so
we can just write him a check and be done with it.
But that happened when a contractor here locally didn't pay me
roughly $380,000, and I had to declare business bankruptcy five years
ago. And at that time, I think it was really in the last two quarters that
it was on the payroll taxes. And so they filed liens and then I've been
dealing with that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: My only concern is that I'm seeing tax
liens that go back to 2002, 2005, 2005, 2005, 2007, which shows kind
of a pattern of nonpayment.
MR. BILLINGS: 2007? Actually, there's nothing past '04 that
Page 1 7
May 20,2009
we're even dealing with them.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm showing one on mine that shows 4 of
'07.
MR. BILLINGS: Yeah, I did see something -- yeah there's --
there should be absolutely nothing. I mean, because I haven't -- like I
say, I don't even own this business. My wife is 100 percent owner of
this business, so I don't know how I --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But you still qualify the business,
correct?
MR. BILLINGS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Do you realize that you are responsible
for that business?
MR. BILLINGS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: In all aspects--
MR. BILLINGS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- tax liens, bills paid to run that
business.
MR. BILLINGS: Yeah.
Where are you seeing an '07 tax liens, if it's something I -- you
know, I know the ones that I've been dealing with the IRS, but--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm showing it as a type number
Z5064180, 4 of'07, a federal tax lien for 53,700K.
MR. BILLINGS: Only thing, I -- you know, sometimes I get
things in the mail that I can -- the only way I can testify against this is
I get things in the mail where they just reinstate it or add a penalty to it
that quarter or something.
But in '07, I haven't financially been involved with anything
and/or since Stonehenge Tile and Marble, if you see, that's the
business I had prior.
MR. L YKOS: Two questions, Ian. How long has it been since
this license was renewed locally?
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Billings qualified two companies, one
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May 20, 2009
being Stonehenge and one being Elite Flooring of Naples. And at this
point they are both not active or canceled in our system.
The last license that was active was the qualification for Elite
Flooring, and that expired in '07, which then would have been
suspended in '08, January of '08.
MR. L YKOS: So it's been over a year.
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MR. JERULLE: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. JERULLE: I'm just now recalling, I think my past company
-- previous company had dealings with this gentleman. I think I came
out on the wrong end of one of his bankruptcies. I think I'll excuse
myself from this.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand.
MR. L YKOS: With regard to the personal credit report, if I
remember correctly, Mr. Neale, the ordinance says that we are not to
take personal credit information into account with regard to the
business.
MR. NEALE: If the business has been in business for more than
one year.
MR. L YKOS: I think based on the letter of the ordinance, that
we can approve the renewal of the license without testing.
That being said, I don't like the fact that this is going on for more
than a year and several months. We get people that come in and
they're only a few months behind and that's a lot easier decision to
make. The ones that are a year behind, two years behind and longer,
it's a little bit harder to accept I forgot to do it when it's gone on for
several years.
What we're finding, Mr. Billings, is that people weren't working
here locally and because of the market they decide they want to come
back here and work, and then they realize that they haven't maintained
their license locally because they haven't had any work here, and all of
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May 20,2009
a sudden there's an opportunity for work and they decide it's time to
re-up their license, and they try to get any additional requirements
waived by saying that it fell through the cracks.
Now, it appears that you've maintained your license in all your
counties. I just -- you know, by the letter of the ordinance, we can
approve this without testing. I just want to go on record as saying that
I'm not comfortable with the excuse that it fell through the cracks
when it's been almost two years. It will be two years this fall. That's a
little bit more than it fell through the cracks.
MR. BILLINGS: Yeah, I think my main issue here is, you can
tell we mainly do high-end hotels/resorts. We've done a few here in
the county. And my -- I guess my biggest concern here is when I have
to rec -- get my license transferred to another county, all my testing
scores are in this county, so if I don't have it in this county, I can't
even get a license in another county because of the reciprocity. You
know, you have to provide everything to them. So I can't even come
here and get them, even though I can have a license in all these other
counties. That's my main issue. You know, I've got to be able to
somehow do that with the contractors I work for all over the state.
MR. L YKOS: Everybody that comes in front of us needs their
license to work, so you're not unique in that situation.
MR. BILLINGS: No.
MR. L YKOS: Okay?
Mr. Jackson, what are the total amounts that will have to be paid
by Mr. Billings to renew his license? Doesn't the amount start to get a
little higher once you've gone to the level that Mr. Billings has in
terms of his delinquency?
MR. JACKSON: I don't have a hard documented number.
Roughly what would be -- 135 to reinstate. Roughly $250.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Are there any other fees that are paid in
other counties that you have to pay to reinstate or to keep that license
that you reciprocate?
Page 20
May 20,2009
MR. BILLINGS: Yes. Like I said, my staff just overlooked this
one and Lee County, and I haven't done work in either of the counties
for a good couple of years, but --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But yet you use this license and this
testing requirement to be able to work in the other counties.
MR. BILLINGS: Originally when you first reciprocity send it
over there five years ago, then you just keep it up. Don't have to keep
sending it yearly.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So you paid those counties but didn't pay
this one.
MR. BILLINGS: Yeah, she -- it's the office staff girl. And I just
wasn't keeping up with it myself. They were paying. This one we've
had the tax kept up as -- you know, and saw that on the board posted
up there and just didn't see my competency card and didn't even think
anything of it.
MR. WHITE: Question.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, sir.
MR. WHITE: Again, kind my newness here, I'm not sure what
the board's latitude is and prior considerations may have been in a
situation like this, but based on what I've heard, I'd be comfortable
potentially waiving the testing, but would want to consider perhaps a
conditional license to make sure that when the time comes for renewal
it's actually done and we have the gentleman come back here. And if
it's not done, we'd be able to look over his file at that time.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It would have to be a probationary
license or probationary allowance for him to go ahead and be in
business without a test. But he only does this once a year, so it would
be a year before he's due again.
MR. BILLINGS: Isn't it due in October, September, something
like that?
MR. NEALE: Yeah, he would pop back up. Renewals are
September, Mr. Jackson, I believe?
Page 21
May 20, 2009
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MR. NEALE: So he would pop back --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Pop back up.
MR. NEALE: -- up again in four months.
MR. WHITE: I don't know if it's poss --
MR. NEALE: And it certainly is within the power of the board
to create a probationary license where, you know, ifhe doesn't renew
by the renewal time that he would have to show back up here or the
license would be revoked.
MR. JACKSON: If I may, contractors are notified of the renewal
requirement. And if I'm not mistaken, and you may be able to
elaborate, if they do not renew they are again notified.
Due to the volume of contractors in the county that are regulated
by our staff, it's not realistic to hold one file to make sure this one
contractor renew-so
MR. WHITE: But the point is that I think he would come back
up -- ifhe had a probationary license, you'd know he would be coming
back potentially to this board on an agenda say six months from now
if the conditional or probationary period was for a six-month period.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It's possible that we could allow the
testing requirement, I suppose, except for could we require to have a
business and law -- I mean, that would pretty much I guess put him on
a page as far as remembering to put his license on where it's supposed
to be each year, and then also put him on a probationary period until
September.
MR. JACKSON: That's definitely within the latitude of the
board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm just real uncomfortable because of
all the tax liens that are still out there and he's got attorneys that are
working on tax liens. And if these don't get taken care of and we allow
him to go without testing, he's going to be out there working with all
these little things over his head, and I'm not real comfortable with that.
Page 22
May 20, 2009
MR. GUITE': Well, especially, he's -- you're doing like 12
million a year in sales?
MR. BILLINGS: We actually did -- you know, understand, the
company is -- Elite Flooring, which I don't qualify Stonehenge for,
that's the one I declared business bankruptcy on, and that was five
years ago. So that's been out of business. Only company I qualify is
Elite Flooring.
This year we just finished up the whole Fountainebleau Hotel.
We actually did about a little over $15 million worth of marble work
in that hotel.
Did one up in Connecticut. Did the Delano Hotel in Miami.
Doing a 120,000 square foot church up in Clearwater right now.
We're very upstanding. Like I said, this company is very strong,
it's very, you know, well financed. It's just me personally, I got
married to my wife -- so you understand, my wife and I got married
after these tax issues, so there's been no tax issues since we've been
married.
MR. LANTZ: I just have a question. Ifhe were to -- if we were
to not waive the testing requirement, he'd take the test and
automatically he's approved for a license, or would then he would
possibly go on a probationary license?
MR. JACKSON: The -- if you do not waive the testing,
obviously the testing would be required, the entire application would
be required. And if there were deficiencies in the application, being
credit, experience, whatever the deficiency, Mr. Billings would then
have the opportunity to come back in front of the board for that to be
reviewed.
MR. NEALE: One thing the board may consider doing, just as a
thought, is that if you were to schedule Mr. Billings to come back at a
date certain in the future, say the October board meeting, then staff
wouldn't have to fight to look through his files, he would come up to
be back at the board meeting, his file would come out, and if he had
Page 23
May 20, 2009
renewed he could come back and everything -- you know, you can
bless him and send him on his way. If he hadn't renewed, then the
board could bring them back and decide what they were going to do at
that point.
So Mr. Jackson, would that be something that your staff could
do?
MR. JACKSON: It could be done.
MR. NEALE: It would be easier than trying to track the file
itself.
MR. JACKSON: Like I said, it's not realistic whatsoever to hold
on to one file to make sure this contractor renews.
MR. NEALE: But ifhe popped up automatically, then you'd go
for the file. It's just a suggestion to the board.
MR. BILLINGS: Just so you know too, regarding the tax liens,
we are supposed to know today from the attorney out of Michigan.
And we're just prepared to write a check and be done with it. They just
won't accept -- haven't accepted one at this point, so --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I would have thought, though, in that
particular comment that you would have had this already taken care of
before coming to this board.
MR. BILLINGS: It's just the way the IRS works. I've been
dealing with it for four and a half years at this point. It's been very
frustrating. But the 20th is today and they're supposed to come back to
the attorney and say we want 90,000, we want 60,000, we want
whatever, and we're just going to write a check and it's going to be
over with.
MR. GUITE': Are these personal tax liens?
MR. BILLINGS: They were actually on the business. But
because --
MR. GUITE': The payroll taxes?
MR. BILLINGS: -- I was sole owner of the business.
MR. GUITE': The payroll taxes.
Page 24
May 20, 2009
MR. BILLINGS: Yes.
MR. GUITE': Okay, I'm going to make a motion that we do not
waive the testing, and I'd like for him to fill out a full application, and
we're going to start from square one.
There's a couple of reasons why. One, you've been through
bankruptcy in your business. You have a lot of IRS liens on here. And
you're dealing with that type of flooring and that caliber of work, at
$12 million a year, I just can't let you go and just be done with it.
Especially when this is your home county, and you forget to file for
your license in your home county.
And I went through the phone book last night and I couldn't find
either you or Elite Flooring in the phone books.
MR. BILLINGS: It's just listed under my wife's name, Kelli
Eastman. Because we work out of our house. And like I said,
everything's imported. I import from around the world, just job
specific. All we do is --
MR. GUITE': You don't have a business phone at all?
MR. BILLINGS: No. We have our offices on the back side of
our property . We have two and a half acres, and we have separate
buildings that has office staff in it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Isn't that one of the requirements for a
business, to have an active phone, active communication? I'm pretty
sure it is.
MR. JACKSON: Well, in our database we should have an active
phone. Could that be their home phone? Of course it could.
MR. L YKOS: Second the motion, Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion and a second on the
floor to deny retesting.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
Page 25
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
MR. L YKOS: Wait a minute, can you restate what the motion
was? The way you said it, you said deny retesting.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Deny retesting, right.
MR. L YKOS: That's not what Eric's motion was.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Oh, I'm sorry. What was your -- I'm
sorry .
MR. GUITE': It was to not waive the testing and go through the
full application process and then come back.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: To not waive the testing requirements.
MR. GUITE': To not waive the testing.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Sorry . You understand now, you have to go and take the test --
MR. BILLINGS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- bring the packet before us and we'll
start again.
MR. BILLINGS: I'll do that. All right, thank you.
Page 26
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're welcome.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. JACKSON: I believe Mr. Albert Trevino has showed up.
He was contesting the citation, and he was not present at his time. And
I do believe that he is now here, if the board would want to reconsider
hearing it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. We'll need to motion to reverse
the motion to uphold the citation.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Neale, we already had a motion and acted on
it.
MR. NEALE: And what the board could do, since the hearing's
not been closed at this point, the public hearing is still open, is the
board could essentially move to rehear the matter. That's essentially
what you would be doing is doing a rehearing, since there was no one
in appearance at the first time.
The Florida statute on this reads that if someone doesn't appear,
it's automatically found to be valid. The fact that they have appeared
late, you know, I think the board has within its discretion to reopen the
matter for rehearing. But that's totally up to the discretion of the board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that would be something that
could be in line, because we could have moved him to later down the
agenda. So either way, I think we could reopen it again to rehear the
case.
MR. NEALE: So we need a motion to reopen.
MR. WHITE: So moved, White.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We need a second.
MR. JERULLE: Second, Jerulle.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second to rehear the case
on Michael Vecchio (sic). All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. GUITE': Al Trevino.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry Albert Trevino.
Page 27
May 20, 2009
Signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Too many changes on this board today. Got me all confused.
Mr. Albert Trevino, are you here?
MR. TREVINO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN : Would you please come to the podium
and be sworn in, please.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Ossorio was actually the investigator
on this particular violation, No. 4473; however, he is on vacation, so
Mr. Kennette's going to I assume take over?
MR. KENNETTE: Yes. Allen Kennette, Contractor Licensing.
This is a case that -- a lot of cases that we've been running across
with people that do lawn service are getting involved in doing
sprinkler and irrigation service. We have taken action against a lot of
companies that are doing irrigation on a lawn service only license. A
lot of them are advertising on their trailers that they do irrigation
repair, also new irrigation installation.
Which is the case here for a Mr. Trevino at Trail Boulevard. He
was observed by Mr. Ossorio out there doing work with that number
on his truck. Asked him where his license was for irrigation, which he
did not have one at the time, no competency card for irrigation, just
Page 28
May 20,2009
lawn service, but that he does do irrigation repair.
He was involved informed that it's a violation, that he does need
an irrigation license if he wants to continue, and remove the lettering
off the trailer that shows that he actually does irrigation, because he's
advertising that he is an irrigation contractor, which he is not.
Citation 4473 was issued and we're here now because he wants
to protest it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Trevino, could you elaborate a little
bit on what happened.
MR. TREVINO: Yes. Good morning.
I just got a new sign built by Razor Graphics. We were trying to
fill up space. I personally have not done any sprinkler work. I let Mr.
Ossorio know that I don't do it, that it's advertised that I did. It is
advertised.
When I was doing the work, I was doing -- cutting trees,
trimming trees. I am a full landscape, I'm not a lawn service, I'm a full
landscape.
And I just asked him if he would give me a warning. He asked
me -- he told me if I could correct the problem, I said I would. And I
had Razor Graphics go out there that same day and take care of the
problem. The truck did not move from there.
Did I tell him that I do it? I don't do it. I haven't don't any
sprinkler work. I just do bobcat service and tree service, that's all I do.
I take plants out and put them in.
And basically I'm just here to see if we could maybe waive the
fee.
I have since then gone to go see Jennifer and see if I can get my
sprinkler license, even though it's something that I don't do.
Basically it was a mistake on my part, trying to fill the board,
trying to fill my sign up. And it did have it on there. And for that I do
apologize.
But basically I'm here before the board to see if they could waive
Page 29
May 20, 2009
the fee, it being that I paid almost what the fine is just to have the
signs recovered up when I just had them done.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sir, just trying to fill up the blank spaces
on the sign?
MR. TREVINO: That's all that was. And I apologize for that.
And I was not aware that it was, you know, to that extreme. But like I
say, I have not done any sprinkler work. I don't do any sprinkler work
at all.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Why didn't you put general contractor
and roofing and AC and all that --
MR. TREVINO: Like I say, it's --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- and fill up the lines, too?
MR. TREVINO: -- not part of landscaping. But like I say, for
that I do apologize.
And I apologized to him that day and I told him that I would
take care of it ASAP. And like I say, I think I even provided a copy of
the receipt where Razor Graphics went out there on the spot that same
day and we got it taken care of. And that's basically what I'm -- you
know, times are really tough for us and we're just trying to see if you
could waive it and that's all.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Filling up the sign you're talking about.
MR. TREVINO: And that's all it was, sir. That's all it was.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You do realize -- then you do admit that
you were wrong.
MR. TREVINO: Oh, no, I admitted to him that same day. I
admitted to him that same day.
And like I say, all I'm trying to do right here is trying to see if I
can get it waived. And like I say, I'm trying to get it fixed. I've already
got the application, I've got the testing sites and I've purchased the
books already to get the restriction off to get the sprinkler license.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And you can have Razor come back and
put it back on your sign.
Page 30
May 20,2009
MR. TREVINO: And I could have them put it back on.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, great.
MR. TREVINO: And that's all I'm asking. Because then it would
be probably over a 600 and some dollar fine, plus what it's going to
cost me to get the sprinkler license and do the test and everything else.
So I'm thinking it's going to be well over $1,000.
And all I'm asking is to see if you guys could please waive the
300. I am in the process of trying to get the sprinkler license off, and
the problem has been taken care of as far as having the sign still on
there saying that I do sprinkler work.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: How long has that sign been on there?
MR. TREVINO: As far as what?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: As far as the sprinkler portion of the sign
that you filled up.
MR. TREVINO: I'm not sure what date was that that was on
there. It had been at least maybe a month. But like I say, I go out
every -- I go out once a week, twice a week, if that.
And I'm basically local. I mean, that's if I'm lucky I'll get called
twice a week to come out and do some trimming. But as we all know,
work is very scarce right now for us. And if anything, it's going to
start to pick up hopefully with the rain. But as of yet, you know, it's
very, very competitive out there. And if I go out once or twice, it's
way too much.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. I'm going to make a motion that
we uphold the citation, 4473.
MR. L YKOS: Second, Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second on the floor.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
Page 3 1
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Sorry. Take the test or get the license. Thanks.
Ronald Palmer. I'm looking for a Ron Palmer.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Not here. Okay, I'll miss it for a moment
here. We'll just put it on the table for a second, see if he shows up
before we do the same thing we had to do a minute ago.
Sonia Pajaro? Please come to the podium and be sworn in.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
THE COURT REPORTER: Please spell your name.
MS. PAJARO: S-O-N-I-A. P-A-J-A-R-O.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Give us just one second.
Say your name? Pajaro?
MS. PAJARO: Pajaro.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. We're here to review your credit
report for a license that you are trying to obtain for American
Painting; is that correct?
MS. PAJARO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Being this is a thick packet and we just
got it, it's going to take us a second to at least go through it and see
why.
But would you maybe start by just giving us a brief synopsis of
what the problem is with your credit, what items that you want to
discuss.
MS. PAJARO: One of the main things that it's in there is civil
judgment, which I have been taking care of. I have some
Page 32
May 20, 2009
correspondence from my lawyer that shows that I have already make
arrangement for payment. They have been talking back and forth. And
I have made a payment of $500. I have a copy of the check and a letter
from the lawyer.
So they have decided to accept not 500, as they have talked
before, they have come up with an $800 settlement. Which I have a
letter for, too.
And the others -- the other derogatory stuff that I have in there, I
am working through my lawyer, too. You need my lawyer's name?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Not at this time, no.
MS. PAJARO: Okay.
I want to add that the problems that I have with my credit, it's
due to lack of employment, which you know that everybody's going
with that. And it's been going on for a while, too. It is not a recent
thing, it's been going on.
And it's really hard to just sit in your house and wait for
somebody to call you. Instead of that, that's why I decided to apply for
the license, because I think I can go out and get some work.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm showing a verification for your
construction experience that shows that you apparently worked for
Day Break Construction?
MS. PAJARO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Were you doing painting for them also?
MS. PAJARO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Were you working for the company or
just painting on the side?
MS. P AJARO: No, I was working for them painting.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Under payroll?
MS. PAJARO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: They paid you every week?
MS. PAJARO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any discussion from the board, any
Page 33
May 20, 2009
questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'll give you a minute.
MS. PAJARO: I also work for S&S Painting on the east coast
and here.
And also for Dominic Painting Services, but he passed away so I
couldn't get any verification.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So you actually get up on a ladder and
paint or --
MS. PAJARO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- whatever you do?
MS. PAJARO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Run the guns and all that kind of stuff?
MS. PAJARO: Well, yes, that too.
MR. L YKOS: Ms. Pajaro, when did you work at Naples
Community Hospital?
MS. PAJARO: Many years ago.
MR. L YKOS: Can you give me some idea of the years that you
worked there?
MS. P AJARO: I worked for Naples Community Hospital nine
years.
MR. L YKOS: From when till when?
MS. PAJARO: 1980 -- I can't remember. Eighty something to
2000 -- '99, I think it was, 1999. And then I worked for Trinity
Medical Services for five years, and I got burned out.
MR. L YKOS: So when did you leave Trinity Medical Services?
MS. P AJARO: 2002, I think it is. 2002, I believe it was.
MR. L YKOS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If the board would want to look at I
guess it's Page maybe 2 of the in balance sheet, I'm showing a couple
things that were -- that are at least showing some kind of a history
from '07. It appears that all the bad stuff that happened to her was back
Page 34
May 20,2009
in the -- I was going to say six, seven years ago or longer, which there
were several.
MR. L YKOS: Two questions, Ian. First one, Ms. Pajaro is here
because of her credit?
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MR. L YKOS: Correct?
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MR. L YKOS: Does that mean you're satisfied with her
experience and her testing scores?
MR. JACKSON: To say that I am satisfied is probably not the
most accurate term.
MR. L YKOS: She's met the qualifications?
MR. JACKSON: Apparently she has met the experience
qualifications. To my knowledge the issue is the credit.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't think I would have a problem
with maybe granting her a six-month probationary license and see
how the credit goes. And if you're working on trying to payoff the
rest of the remainder of the balances that you have, at least making
payments to them, maybe a review in six months and then we'll see
how you're doing.
MS. P AJARO: Yes, I'll be happy to comply with any restrictions
that you apply.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Since you have passed the test and you
actually do have experience to do the job. It's just my thought.
Any other discussion from any of the other members?
MR. WHITE: Just as a point of information for the applicant, it
would be of interest to me, I think one item that I see that's still a
collection account out there that hasn't otherwise been charged off or
just delinquent is -- it says CACV of Colorado, LLC. The original
creditor was MB&A, American Bank, and it's a collection account,
but it looks like there's over $7,200 outstanding.
I don't know what the status of that is, but it shows a balance
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May 20, 2009
date of 2/15/09 with that dollar amount still past due of over $7,200.
So that is an item that in looking at it in the future I'm thinking
probably needs to be considered by you and dealt with.
MS. PAJARO: Yes, I am working with them with a lawyer and
my lawyer. And the last communication that I have from my lawyer
was that they agree to make a $100 payment every month on that.
MR. WHITE: That's not the Capital One matter?
MS. PAJARO: No.
MR. WHITE: Correct. Because your lawyer's letter for Mr. Lago
only specifically referenced the Capital One account. So it's just your
testimony that you're looking to work that off with your lawyer at
$100 a month.
MS. P AJARO: Yes, but I have a letter here.
MR. WHITE: Okay. That's it for me, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Anyone else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other discussion?
MR. L YKOS: I have another question.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
MR. L YKOS: The letter from the attorney has your last name as
Ortega?
MS. P AJARO: Yes, sir. I used to be married to an Ortega
person. My single name -- my maiden name was Vasquez, and now
my new married name is Pajaro.
MR. L YKOS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If there's no further discussion about this,
I'll entertain a motion.
I'll make a motion that we allow Mrs. Pajaro of American
Painting, LLC a license of a six-month probationary period and after
the six-month period she's to come back before this board with a new
credit application and indicating on it how she has paid off some of
these debts or at least how the terms of payment are being made.
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May 20, 2009
MS. PAJARO: Okay.
MR. GUITE': I'll second.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Good luck to you.
MS. PAJARO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You can't be able to get your license
today, because everyone at the county is here. But by tomorrow you
can go down there and file your paperwork and then you'll be all set.
MS. PAJARO: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Remember, it's a six-month probationary
license, okay? So after six months you will come back before the
board, you will bring us another credit report, and we're going to
review it again. If something should go wrong and nothing happens on
it, then we have the power to be able to take that license away again.
Okay.
MS. PAJARO: Thank you. I understand. And I thank you again
for being magnanimous with me.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No problem. You're welcome.
Okay --
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Chairman? Real quick. I do apologize,
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May 20,2009
there was a deletion that was overlooked by me. Mr. Calvert Courtney
had a medical emergency where he's not able to attend our meeting
today.
MR. GUITE': I was looking forward to seeing him.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I was too.
MR. L YKOS: His one-year probation ends this month.
MR. NEALE: Yeah. It was May last year.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yeah. So--
MR. WHITE: In inquiry, Mr. Chairman--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: -- to staff.
When did you get that notice?
MR. JACKSON: I was notified I believe yesterday.
I'd like the board to understand that I was out of work last week,
so it took me a couple of days to get up to speed with all the
intricacies of today's meeting. But I was notified within the last two
days of Mr. Courtney's absence.
MR. WHITE: Was that by a phone call, a fax, an e-mail?
MR. JACKSON: I was notified by staff. And how our staff was
notified by Mr. Courtney, I'm not very sure.
MR. L YKOS: I make a motion that Mr. Courtney's license be
revoked. And if he wants to get it renewed, he can come back in front
of us again. He needs to come back in front of us again.
MR. HORN: Second --
MR. L YKOS: My patience is exhausted with Mr. Courtney.
MR. WHITE: Just a point of clarification. Again, I apologize for
not understanding some of the history. And I fully appreciate how you
feel about it, but if I understood correctly, his license was otherwise
going to expire already. So I don't know whether -- I mean, can you
just help me to understand where we are procedurally with the status
of his license?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, Mr. Courtney's case has gone on for
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May 20,2009
about -- this is about the fourth time he would have been here before
us for a case that he was found guilty of.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Courtney was found in violation one year
ago and placed on a one-year probation, which obviously would have
expired at this meeting, had Mr. Courtney attended and supplied the
board with what was requested of him.
MR. WHITE: We may have decided to give him a full or extend
his probation or not.
MR. JACKSON: The board would have made a ruling on
whether to relieve Mr. Courtney of his probation, extend the
probation, revoke the license, suspend the license. Any number of
actions could have been taken by the board.
MR. WHITE: My point is if we do nothing, what happens?
MR. NEALE: If the board takes no action, it will be my opinion
that the license would then be invalid, would be inactive. That it
would be as if he had not renewed it, essentially.
MR. WHITE: So the point of revoking wouldn't be then that --
MR. NEALE: The point of revocation is --
MR. WHITE: -- he'd have to reapply completely.
MR. NEALE: He would have to reapply with a revocation on his
record.
And the board would at that -- I would opine that almost
certainly the contractor licensing supervisor would then refer his new
application to the board for review, at which point in time the board
would take into account all of the previous factors, including his
revocation and whether to grant him a new license.
I would suggest that Mr. Lykos' suggestion of making a formal
motion to revoke and having the board vote upon that is probably, in
an excess of caution, the appropriate route for this board to take.
MR. WHITE: I merely wanted it on the record and my own
information. I appreciate it. Thank you.
MR. GUITE': I'll second.
Page 39
May 20,2009
THE COURT REPORTER: I think there was already a second.
MR. HORN: Yeah, I seconded it.
MR. GUITE': Did you?
MR. HORN: Yeah.
MR. GUITE': Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any further discussion?
MR. JERULLE: I think I'm lost a little bit.
Would you repeat what your recommendation was, Mr. Neale?
MR. NEALE: I would recommend that the board follow what
Mr. Lykos appears to have suggested, which is make a formal motion
to revoke based upon a failure to comply with the terms of the
probation.
MR. JERULLE: I understand.
MR. NEALE: And I think that basis needs to be put into a
motion and put on the record.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The only other cause of action that
would come up is he was seriously or there was a serious problem in
the family as far as medical or whatever, he could appeal this and
come back later on.
MR. NEALE: You know, this is a public board and he certainly
has the ability to petition the board for a review.
MR. GUITE': And he could have actually faxed Ian the
profit-and-Ioss statement and we'd at least have that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. NEALE: That was his only requirement at this is to show
the balance sheet and P&L.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Kennette?
MR. KENNETTE: Yes, just one thing on Mr. Courtney. I was
the one that he called. He called yesterday morning about 10:15. Of
course I didn't get back to the office till almost 3:00. That he said that
he had forgotten that he had a bone marrow checkup.
THE COURT REPORTER: Mr. Kennette, could I please swear
Page 40
May 20,2009
you In.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. KENNETTE: For the record, Allen Kennette, Contractor
Licensing.
Two things: Mr. Courtney was at our office about three weeks
prior to this meeting today, asking again about what he needed to
bring in for verification. Still not sure.
He was informed again that he -- what he needed to bring in to
clarify it, and he said he would take care of that, but it's very costly at
this time, that he's not working heavily like he used to. So he was
aware of it, he had no recognition of any type of appointment.
Yesterday's message was that he forgot that he had an
appointment for a bone marrow checkup is what he left on my
answering machine, and that he would not be here.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right. Well, if that is true, he'll still
have the right to appeal, if that's the case. But at the moment I think
Mr. Lykos' motion is on the floor.
We have a motion and a second to revoke Mr. Calvin N.
Courtney, II license. I need a motion -- I mean, all those in favor,
signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The motion carries.
Okay, there's one last thing under new business. You want to
Page 41
May 20,2009
move this down the road for a little later time, the order to pay civil
penalties, so we can discuss it further, or you want to do it now?
MR. JACKSON: That's entirely up to the board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Let's do it now. Because this case is
going to get involved, I'm sure.
MR. NEALE: Essentially that's just an administrative act by the
board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: Do we have a copy of the order? Again, kind of
just apologize for my lack of knowledge.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't believe any of us have at a
moment.
MR. NEALE: What this --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Just going to read this.
MR. NEALE: -- is, just for your information, Mr. White, is the
board adopted a procedure whereby on citations that were issued, not
appealed and failed to pay, the board, as I say, inaugurated a
procedure whereby those would come to this board for a recognition
of the failure of order to pay and entry of an order that they had failed
to pay so that that order could be recorded in the public records. And
that it would constitute a lien on the person's property against whom
the citation had been issued.
So this authorizes the county to enter that lien on -- to record that
lien.
MR. WHITE: So we have a series of orders that we're being
asked to consider, and we would, under the procedure, approve the
chairman to sign them and have them recorded?
MR. NEALE: Yeah, effectively it's a consent agenda item, yeah,
where it's just a whole stack of citations that were unpaid. And it was
determined several meetings ago that it was required that the board
make a finding and actually accept these so that the -- so that the liens
could be recorded.
Page 42
May 20, 2009
This is under Florida statute. When these go unpaid, they
constitute a lien on the property and they can be foreclo -- they can
create a lien and then the lien can be foreclosed on. But certainly it's
not financially rational for the county to foreclose on $300 liens.
MR. WHITE: Understood.
Do you feel we need to have some degree of notice at least of
the names of the individuals that these orders pertain to in some aspect
of a record, or will they --
MR. NEALE: They will become part of the record, so--
MR. JERULLE: So we're not voting on individual liens, we're
voting on all --
MR. NEALE: All of these that have been issued.
And it's really an administrative act. Because they automatically
by terms of statute become liens. We're just authorizing the county to
go -- the chairman to sign those orders so that they can be recorded.
MR. WHITE: Understood.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: In a motion?
MR. L YKOS: Do you need to do a formal motion?
I make a motion to authorize the chairman to sign the orders to
pay civil penalties for the official record.
MR. WHITE: And I'll second it.
Your motion includes having the county record them. Do you
agree, Mr. Lykos?
MR. L YKOS: I believe that's what my -- I think I said that in my
motion, for them to be signed for the official records.
MR. WHITE: Okay. Second.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion and a second on the
floor.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
Page 43
May 20, 2009
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
I won't sign these right now, I'll do it later.
All right, that pretty much closes new business and old business.
MR. JERULLE: Ron Palmer.
MR. WHITE: You have Mr. Palmer.
MR. JERULLE: Ron Palmer.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Oh, Mr. Palmer. Is he here? Mr. Palmer?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Still not here.
MR. WHITE: He was seeking a waiver of an exam?
MR. JACKSON: I could elaborate, ifit would please the board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Palmer has a stump grinding business in
which grinding of stumps would fall under a tree removal license or a
landscaping restricted license.
All Mr. Palmer does is grind stumps, so we were going to put
some options out there for him to take a business and law test, waive
the tree test and issue a restricted tree license that would restrict him to
only stumps. So that was what the board was going to hear.
And the board would have ruled on the waiving of the actual tree
exam, because staff does not have the ability to waive an exam, only
the board can. So that was the reason for Mr. Palmer to be here.
With his absence, I would assume that he's going to have to go
through all of the testing at this point.
MR. WHITE: Do we have --
Page 44
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So we don't have to hear this at all then.
MR. NEALE: No.
MR. WHITE: Well, just point of procedure, do we have an
option to table it for a month?
MR. NEALE: That certainly is an option of the board is the
board could table this for a month for him to reappear.
MR. WHITE: I mean, I don't know what the notice he was
given, but I'm assuming he was notified that he was going to be on the
agenda today?
MR. JACKSON: Again, this was a hearing that was initiated by
Mr. Palmer.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. We didn't bring him before the
board, he brought himself before the board.
MR. JACKSON: He would not have been -- the process of
service would not have been a factor in this, because he initiated the
hearing.
MR. WHITE: But there's nothing in his letter that says I want to
come and talk to you on today's date. I mean, I'm just trying to give
the guy the benefit of the doubt, realizing that if he wanted to come
talk to us, we probably should have let him know when it was.
MR. JACKSON: Typically when we receive the letter from a
respondent, for lack of a better term, when they initiate a hearing, if
they do it in person, they're given a letter. If we receive it by mail we
would mail -- we being staff would mail a letter indicating the date of
the hearing, the location of the hearing, the time of the hearing.
MR. WHITE: Well, I saw those for other applicants but I didn't
see one for him, so that's why I raised the question and wasn't sure.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Ifhe's coming here to waive an
examination, he's asking us to do him a favor, in a sense, to waive the
testing requirements and do something else in his behalf. And if he
doesn't show up here to present that, then there's no reason to hear the
case.
Page 45
May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: My only point was to have some assurance that he
actually knew he was supposed to be here today at 9:00 a.m. That's all.
MR. GUITE': There's no letter like this in the packet.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right, I understand.
MR. L YKOS: Well, we're not denying him the opportunity,
we're just saying that we can't do anything about it because he's not
here.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, essentially the board's taking no action.
MR. WHITE: That's why I inquired about tabling it for a month
and --
MR. NEALE: It really -- I mean, it could be done as sort of an
excess of caution. But, I mean, if he comes to the county staff and says
gee wiz, I couldn't make it, can you put me back on the agenda next
month, there's no prejudice to him because he didn't appear this month
because there's been no finding.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
Okay, we're going to move right along. We have one public
hearing.
MR. NEALE: Take a break.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You want to take a break for just a few
minutes?
MR. GUITE': Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, we're going to recess for, let's see,
how about 15 minutes. Would that suffice? 10:35, be back in your
seats.
(Recess. )
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, I'll call back to order the May
20th meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board.
First question is, did Mr. Palmer -- he's not going to be here; is
that correct?
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Palmer, he was here, he will not be heard
today. He elected to come back in June.
Page 46
May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Oh, okay, whatever he likes.
All right, we have a case under public hearings. The case is No.
2009-06, which is Bobby J. Phillips, Jr., d/b/a Bob's Air Conditioning
and Refrigeration, Inc.
Are they present?
MR. GANGULI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Please come to the podium and be sworn
In.
MR. PHILLIPS: May I please, with respect -- can you please
give me one like you do in the courthouse over there without
swearing? It's against my religion, I promise. Can you do something
like that?
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: First I need a motion to enter the packet
for Case No. 2009-06 into evidence, please.
MR. WHITE: So moved, White.
MR. BOYD: Second, Boyd.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
This is a case by the Board of County Commissioners, Collier
County. This is the petitioner versus Bobby J. Phillips, Jr., d/b/a Bob's
Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, Inc., Case No. 2009-06, under
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May 20,2009
license number 16193-CAC054717.
It's an administrative complaint with the Contractor Licensing
Board of Collier County files an administrative complaint against
Bobby J. Phillips.
Under count number one, Collier County Ordinance 2006-46,
Section 4-2-2, willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws
of the state, city or Collier County.
Just for the record, I'm going to read in the proceedings exactly
how this is going to run. Asked by Mr. Neale.
The hearings are conducted pursuant to the procedures set out in
Collier County Ordinance 90-105, as amended, and Florida Statutes,
Chapter 489.
These hearings are quasi judicial in nature. Formal rules of
evidence shall not apply, but fundamental fairness and due process
shall be observed and governs the proceedings.
Irrelevant, immaterial or cumulative evidence shall be excluded,
but all other evidence of a type commonly relied upon by reasonably
prudent persons in the conduct of their affairs shall be admissible,
whether or not such evidence would be admissible in a trial in the
courts of the State of Florida.
Hearsay evidence may be used for the purpose of supplementing
or explaining any evidence, but shall not be sufficient by itself to
support findings unless such hearsay would be admissible or obj ection
(sic) in civil actions in court.
The rules of privilege shall be effective to the same extent that
they are now or hereafter may be recognized in civil action.
Any member of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board
may question any witness before the board. Each party to the
proceedings shall have the right to call and examine witnesses, to
introduce exhibits, to cross-examine witnesses, to impeach any
witness, regardless of which party called the witness to testify, and to
rebut any evidence presented against the party.
Page 48
May 20, 2009
A chair person, or in his or her absence the vice-chair person,
shall have all powers necessary to conduct the proceedings at the
hearing in a full, fair and impartial manner and to preserve order and
decorum.
The general process of the hearing is for the county to present an
opening statement which sets out charges and in general terms how it
intends to prove them.
The respondent then makes his or her opening statements, setting
out in general terms the defense charges.
The county then presents its case in chief, calling witnesses and
presenting evidence. The respondent may cross-examine these
witnesses.
Once the county has closed its case in chief, then the respondent
puts on his or her defense. They may call witnesses and do all the
things described earlier; that is, call and examine witnesses, introduce
exhibits, cross-examine witnesses, to impeach any witness, regardless
of which party called the witness to testify, and to refute any evidence
presented against the party.
After the respondent puts on his or her case, the county gets to
present a rebuttal to the respondent's presentation. When the rebuttal is
concluded, then each party gets to present closing statements, which
the county getting a second chance to rebut after the respondent's
closing statements (sic).
The board then closes the public hearing and begins
deliberations.
Prior to beginning deliberations, the attorney for the board will
give them a charge, much like a charge to a jury, setting out the
parameters on which they base their decision.
During deliberations the board can ask for additional information
and clarification from the parties.
The board will then decide two different issues: First, whether
the respondent is guilty of the offenses charged in the administrative
Page 49
May 20, 2009
complaint. A vote will be taken on this matter. If the respondent is
found guilty, then the board must decide sanctions to be imposed.
The board attorney at this point will advise the board of the
sanctions which may be imposed and factors to consider.
The board will discuss sanctions and take a vote on those.
After the two matters are decided, the Chair, or in his absence
the vice chair, will read a summary of the order to be issued by the
board. This summary will set out the basic outline of the order, will
not be exactly the same language as the final order. The final order
will include full details required under state law and procedure.
With that said, I'll need to have some opening statements from
county.
MR. GANGULI: Investigator Ganguli, Collier County
Contractor Licensing.
Good morning, gentlemen. Mr. White, Mr. Lantz, welcome
aboard. I'll try not to bore you too much.
This is Case 2009-06, Board of County Commissioners versus
Bobby J. Phillips, Jr., doing business as Bob's Air Conditioning and
Refrigeration, Incorporated.
On April 2nd, 2009, I, Rob Ganguli, Collier County Contractor
License Compliance Officer, received a preliminary complaint form
submitted by the homeowner of 690 1 Compton Lane South, Mr.
William Koenig, regarding an air conditioner installation performed
by Bob's Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, Incorporated, state
certified contractor CAC-054 71 7.
The complaint was: On September 3rd, 2008 the homeowner
hired the above mentioned contractor to replace the condenser and air
handler. The initial installation was performed without a building
permit being issued prior to commencing the work.
In addition to this, the homeowner also observed the roof trusses
of the home being structurally modified without a building permit by
the respondent in order to accommodate the installation of the air
Page 50
May 20, 2009
handler.
The homeowner paid the contractor in full, but no active permit
is issued and no inspections have been done for any type of work.
These activities and the failure of the contractor to remedy these
issues result in a violation of the 2004 Florida Building Code, Section
105-1, regulating obtaining permits, as well as Collier County
Ordinance 2006-46, Section 4.2.2, governing misconduct by state
certified contractors, specifically for willfully violating the applicable
building codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you, Mr. Ganguli.
Mr. Phillips, would you like to give an opening statement on the
charges that are against you? Briefly just explain what went on.
MR. PHILLIPS: Can I hear the date again or get a piece of that
paper? He gave me a sheet this morning.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The date was April 2nd, 2009.
MR. PHILLIPS: That's when they filed this thing, or the
homeowner did? Can you tell me that?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, preliminary complaint.
MR. PHILLIPS: I guess so, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The complaint was actually on
September 3rd of '08.
MR. PHILLIPS: So the homeowner filed something on
September 3rd? I'm just curious, if I may ask. I missed that part.
When did they file with the county, sir, if I may ask?
MR. GANGULI: We received the complaint on April 2nd, 2009.
MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you for that.
MR. GANGULI: The installation was done on September 3rd,
2008, per the contract.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay, may I ask, when did he contact the
county, please?
Rob, can I ask you when you contacted the --
MR. GANGULI: Again, we received the complaint from the
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May 20, 2009
homeowner on April 2nd, 2009.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay, so that's when he signed it?
MR. GANGULI: Signed what, sir?
MR. PHILLIPS: The complaint.
MR. GANGULI: That's when he filed --
MR. PHILLIPS: That's when he filed the paperwork.
MR. GANGULI: Yes, sir.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. And you didn't have any contact with
him prior?
MR. GANGULI: No, sir, that's when he came to our office.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. I mean, I understand that, but did you
have any contact with him prior?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Excuse me one second.
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'd like to have just a synopsis of what
the case is about first.
MR. PHILLIPS : Well, this --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Just an opening statement. Then we'll get
into the questions and answers.
MR. PHILLIPS : Yes, sir. I am a state cert --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand what you are. I'mjust
telling you the way we're going to do it.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir, absolutely. Please.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you.
MR. PHILLIPS: The homeowner had a heat complaint during
the winter on about one of the coldest days. And he didn't believe I
installed the heat properly. So I did do my very best to explain to him.
I went out several times -- well, I should say that, about the heat two
times.
Afterward he just wasn't convinced. See, the system only had a
10 kw service. That's all I could put in it. I replaced the system with
the same system.
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May 20,2009
He had another company in and they told him that I cut the
trusses. Now, I go on a lot of air handler installations, and these
trusses are cut everywhere. Fire walls down and so forth. I mean, man,
all over town. Now I'm getting charged for this one. I mean, really,
okay?
Now, this homeowner, he's out to get me. I'm being as -- I have
not been nothing but nice to him. And that's all I will be. He even
broke my little boy. (Phonetic) And I am nothing but nice.
He made me -- he said, I'll tell you what, Bobby -- I hate to say
that -- I'm going -- if you don't give me the $250 that the company
charged -- and by the way, they charged him 1,900, okay? And the
problem with that, the reason I pulled my permit off before the work
was done, because he's traveling back and forth, okay, is that the other
people come in and told him certain stuff and charged him. They took
over that job and they had the heat working with the cooling.
So when that place bums down, I'm in front of the state board
and Rob says you can't do that, I said -- what am I supposed to tell
him, Rob told me to? He didn't even tell me his last name. He calls me
on the phone, says, you better get that -- I get in there, he's spitting on
me, he's talking so fast. These people did nothing but threaten me. I'm
like, man, I didn't do it.
He said, well, you're going to get a lawyer. I said, Rob, my
defense is I didn't do it.
Now, if you gentlemen have any questions, I'll be glad to answer
it, okay, I promise you. I mean, a lot of stuff sounds pretty bad. But
I'm like, no. Where did this assumption come from.
My permit I revoked because a company come in there, okay,
rigged it. This is a very high tech air handler.
Now, one thing please remember, they said I cut trusses, okay. I
took that unit apart and put it in about a 1 7 and a half inch opening in
an attic pull-down staircase. There's the bigger opening all around.
Why would I cut a truss when I folded it up in pieces, squeezed the
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May 20, 2009
coil tight without breaking any welds, put it back together. It took me
three days. I had to put him in a hotel for $50 a night because his wife
was flying in because it took me so much longer.
Now, see, somehow or another he got embarrassed or something
about the heat. It was a recommendation -- well, he called me about a
year and a half ago, they were supposed to replace it, okay, they had a
burned wire in the air handler. I fixed it.
So he said he trusts me. But something happened with that heat
call. I mean, he got so mad his wife had to talk to me. I mean, they
were -- I mean, I don't know why he got so -- but I was nothing but
respectful to that man. I know I'm here to make sure that consumer is
happy. That is my job.
I've been here, sir, since 1986. I've done over 15,000 houses. Not
one complaint. I'm an air conditioning contractor. When people do air
conditioning work they put a little bitty duct in these houses, okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a question for you.
MR. PHILLIPS: I've always done my job, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Phillips, did you get a permit for this
job?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
MR. JERULLE: What date did you get the permit?
MR. PHILLIPS: It was 2009. Probably, I don't know, May,
something like that before the job was done.
I finished everything that was required of me, the installation.
But I will not -- I mean, I can't be responsible for that job.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, basically that's the synopsis that
what happened to -- of why.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir, pretty much so.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right.
Mr. Ganguli --
MR. PHILLIPS: May I say one --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- do you have any questions?
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May 20, 2009
One question. I'm going to go back to the county. Do you have
any questions to ask or any evidence that you want to present?
MR. GANGULI: Not at this time, Mr. Joslin.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Do you have any questions of the
county?
MR. PHILLIPS: May I make a statement? Can I make a
statement about what's been -- no?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, thank you.
I want to say, sir, the way they present themselves now, he's a
very good man. I respect this. But the way they do their self out in the
field is so disrespectful, it ain't funny. I'm a customer of his. Really,
they spitting on me, they're threatening me so much. I told his boss,
the guy -- what I did to make him so mad? I told his boss, I said, man,
you need to get your boy's panties out of a wad. He's so tied up, man,
it ain't funny.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Excuse me.
MR. PHILLIPS: And it's serious, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Keep it on a nice --
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm sorry, but I mean, sir, he is not this nice
cool man right there. You know what it's like to be threatened and
blackmailed? I'm a licensed contractor. I've been in this town doing
business for years, sir. Really. I mean, really. I never done nothing
wrong. I'm a --
MR. NEALE: If I may point out to the board, one of the things
that is specific is the board is to exclude irrelevant and immaterial
evidence, and I believe his personal comments about county staff are
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Exactly.
MR. NEALE: -- at least that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I would question you again, keep your
comments to yourself as far as derogatory remarks of anyone.
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May 20, 2009
MR. PHILLIPS: So it don't matter ifhe was threatening me?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Excuse me?
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm just saying, it don't matter ifhe was
threatening me? I'm just curious.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I just asked you a question -- I just told
you a question (sic), I'm not going to say it again.
MR. NEALE: I'd just like to caution--
MR. PHILLIPS: I got in an accident, man. I got a little frontal
lobe damage. That's the reason I shut my eyes. Please.
MR. NEALE: I'd like to caution the board that everything he's
saying is hearsay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Exactly.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other questions from the board
members?
MR. L YKOS: We just need Rob to present the case.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Ganguli, would you like to continue
now?
MR. GANGULI: Yes. Gentlemen, I'd like to emphasize two
things: One, that we are dealing with a state certified contractor. I'm
going to present to you the facts of the matter. But this -- the bare
bones is that it's working without a permit, okay?
I'd also like you to turn to the table of contents. You have a
multitude of evidence in your packets, and you can peruse through it
while you listen to my presentation so that you have a clearer
understanding of what I'm referring to.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One second, Mr. Phillips. (sic).
Mr. Phillips, would you mind having a seat right there in the first
seat right there just for a moment.
MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you very much.
Go ahead, Mr. Ganguli.
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May 20, 2009
MR. GANGULI: All right. On April 2nd, 2009, the office of
contractors licensing received a complaint from homeowner William
Koenig regarding several issues that had developed after he hired the
state certified air conditioning contractor Bob's Air Conditioning
Refrigeration, Incorporated to perform a replacement of the air
conditioner -- air handler and condenser.
From the time of the initial installation the homeowner
experienced problems with the unit resulting in multiple service calls
made by the qualifier, Bob's Air Conditioning, Bobby J. Phillips, Jr.
Despite his efforts to resolve these ongoing issues, the
homeowner finally had to resort to hiring a second air conditioning
contractor who succeeded at getting the new system functioning
properly.
In your evidence packet is a sworn affidavit made by the
qualifier of the second air conditioning contractor outlining the
relatively simple measures taken to repair the unit.
Through this repair process it was subsequently discovered that
the initial installation of the unit by Bob's Air Conditioning was never
permitted and therefore never received the required county inspections
that would have revealed the flaws that caused the unit to be
dysfunctional.
Upon learning of this unpermitted installation, the homeowner
spoke to Mr. Phillips regarding this, resulting in his finally obtaining
an after-the-fact permit only almost six months later, but never calling
in the required inspections to get it C.O.'d.
When this office contacted Mr. Phillips about getting his air
conditioner installation inspected and C.O.'d, he claimed that because
the second air conditioning contractor had since worked on the unit,
he was no longer responsible for any issues and consequently canceled
the permit for his installation.
When the inaccuracies of his perceptions were factually
explained to him, Mr. Phillips maintained his position on the matter
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May 20, 2009
and was informed that this violation alone was worthy of a hearing in
front of the Contractors Licensing Board.
In addition to these issues it was also discovered that in order to
accommodate the installation of the air handler above the garage area,
several roof trusses were structurally modified in a manner that
required the homeowner to hire an architectural engineer firm to
establish their integrity.
Photographs of the modifications, as well as the evaluation of
the engineering firm, are also included in your evidence packets.
These activities, in conjunction with the unwillingness of the
contractor to rectify these matters, result in a violation of the 2004
Florida Building Code Section 105.1 regulating the obtaining of
permits, as well as Collier County Ordinance 2006-46, Section 4.2.2,
which addresses misconduct by state certified contractors for willfully
violating the applicable building codes of the state, city or Collier
County.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Phillips, do you have any questions
that you'd like to ask Mr. Ganguli regarding the comments he's made?
MR. PHILLIPS: Well, sir, may I stand up?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Come to the podium, please.
MR. PHILLIPS: I wish to really take in the fact, sir, that as the
work I've done, I know the law, okay, I really do.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We're talking about not what you've
done or not what you're going to do or not what you have already
finished, we're talking about questions that you may have of Mr.
Ganguli in response to what he's -- his allegations against you.
MR. PHILLIPS: This ain't like a closing statement?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No, sir.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We're just trying to get to the evidence
right now as far as what happened and why.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. Now, the air handler --let me please
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May 20, 2009
state again, I installed it through an opening that was a good I would
say 15, 20 inches smaller than where it was placed.
Also, it was not the first air handler installation, okay? I don't
know how -- I don't think this homeowner had been in there very long
or else he wouldn't have complained about the heat.
Now, I will say, all my jobs would be 15 kw on that job. I would
always make sure. I would say over 98 to 99 -- yeah, about 99 percent
of all contractors put a 10 kw in there.
Now, I can't -- now, the homeowner didn't want to pay for
another electrical service. Now, I did not have any problems with the
cooling. If he wants to submit an electrical bill or something, you'll
find that out. It was very efficient.
Now, it's according to how this turns out about what this
gentleman is going to do to me and my livelihood.
Now, you know, it ain't -- he's got me up here, man. It ain't right.
I didn't do that. If you guys want pictures of all -- I mean, like you
guys brought up the hospital today. I did a lot of work for the hospital
over the years. You'd be surprised what's happened to those rental
buildings. I didn't do that. I do everything -- I mean, I'm always -- my
whole life, since -- I've been doing this here since 1980, '82. I started
out when I was 16. And I--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Again, Mr. Phillips, I'm going to warn
you again. We're still talking about hearsay . We're talking about
things that you did 20 years ago or when you were a child. We're not
interested in that.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We're interested in the facts of the
matter.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. The homeowner has made statements, I
mean, that are -- I mean, I just can't believe that he's saying that. I
don't know if it's hearsay or not, you know, I don't know if you guys
considered that, that he's bringing in from a homeowner the -- I mean,
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May 20, 2009
if you -- I hope -- as far as what Rob's accusations are, that he don't
have nothing to back it up. He don't -- yes, sir?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Go ahead.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Phillips.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
MR. L YKOS : You signed a contract with the owner on
September 3rd of 2008; is that correct?
MR. PHILLIPS: I would assume so, yes, sir.
MR. L YKOS: And when was the work completed -- when was
the work started?
MR. PHILLIPS : Work was started right after that. He needed it
real quick.
MR. L YKOS: Okay, I understand.
And based on the packet that we have, the permit was applied
for and issued March 26th of 2009.
MR. PHILLIPS: I would assume so, sir.
MR. L YKOS: Based on that time line you applied for and
received a permit about six months after the work was contracted and
started; is that correct?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. Not completed, yes, sir. He traveled,
SIr.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Ganguli?
MR. GANGULI: Sir?
MR. L YKOS: There's statements in here about the trusses being
cut.
MR. GANGULI: Yes, sir.
MR. L YKOS: There's pictures that look like trusses have been
cut.
Is there any way that we can verify for sure that it was Mr.
Phillips that actually did the cutting of the trusses?
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Lykos, the verification comes through the
homeowner who bore witness to it happening.
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May 20, 2009
MR. L YKOS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It is possible then that someone else
could have cut these trusses before he got to the job? That is a
possibility?
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Joslin, anything's possible. But likely, I'm
reluctant to say.
MR. L YKOS: We do have a statement from the homeowner
saying that it was Mr. Phillips that cut the trusses.
MR. GANGULI: In your evidence packet it's E-17, Mr. Lykos.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Chairman, I may be able to elaborate
somewhat.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: For the record, Ian Jackson, Contractor
Licensing.
(Mr. Jackson was duly sworn.)
MR. JACKSON: The county database shows this is the second
air handler in the home, the first being during initial construction,
which obviously passed inspection. No other air handler's been
installed, according to the county database, since the initial
construction.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So those trusses were cut by--
MR. JACKSON: This is number two.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- someone after the initial installation.
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
MR. WHITE: Just a question on that, a follow up. When was
that initial construction?
MR. JACKSON: I don't have that date in front of me.
MR. GUITE': So it is possible that somebody could have
replaced it without getting a permit.
MR. JACKSON: I can't say that it's not possible. The database
shows no previous building permit. We have the initial construction
and Mr. Phillips' permit.
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May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: But you don't know what the initial construction
date was.
MR. JACKSON: I don't have the building permit for the initial
construction in front of me, no.
MR. WHITE: It would be helpful for me to know if it had been,
say, 15 years as opposed to five.
MR. GUITE': Right.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Ganguli, do you have any further
questions for the respondent?
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Phillips, how long have you been a
certified air conditioning contractor?
MR. PHILLIPS: Maybe since '86.
MR. GANGULI: Okay. And are you aware that air conditioning
installations require permitting?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, yes, sir.
MR. GANGULI: No further questions.
MR. PHILLIPS: Can I say something?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One question for you then.
Why did you not get a permit for this job?
MR. PHILLIPS: I did, sir, once -- I didn't -- I figured it this way,
that when I called the --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No, the question is why didn't you get a
permit for the job before you started the job?
MR. PHILLIPS: The homeowner was out of town a lot and he
didn't want to pull the inspection. And there's a code about if you have
a permit out too long. Now, this man was traveling.
And even Rob -- I mean, even when I pulled it, I was working
with Rob and the guy kept putting it off. Okay? I mean, you pull a
permit --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Who pulled the permit?
MR. PHILLIPS: I did. And after you pulled it, you only got like
six months, right, Rob? If you don't call it in --
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May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You can extend the permit. There is an
extension you can get. You can get permits extended months after
months after months after you pull a permit. Because you haven't
started the work yet.
MR. PHILLIPS: Well, sir, I guess what my thinking is, when I
showed up down there and talked to those guys, I messed up. And I
don't like messing up. I want to make sure everything goes right. I
know those head men down there, I don't want to be bringing anything
to them. Anytime I bring something to them, I got to --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Let me ask you this --
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Phillips.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Go ahead.
MR. L YKOS: Previously you testified that you started the work
shortly after signing the contract on September 3rd.
MR. PHILLIPS: Absolutely.
MR. L YKOS: So obviously there was no delay in you starting
the work like you claim.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, yes, sir, he needed to quit. His wife was
coming back.
MR. L YKOS : Well, you're testifying to two different things.
MR. PHILLIPS: What's that, sir?
MR. L YKOS : You're testifying that you started the work right
away and you're also testifying that you couldn't get a permit because
the job was going to be delayed.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, no, sir, I didn't say I couldn't, I said I didn't.
Excuse me. That's what I meant to say.
MR. L YKOS: That might be my misunderstanding. You're
saying two things. You're saying that you started the work shortly
after signing a contract.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
MR. L YKOS: But you didn't get a permit because the work was
delayed.
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May 20, 2009
MR. PHILLIPS : Well, sir, I didn't get a permit I would say
because I did not want to fail or have to go back and do something at
the county that to me wasn't straight up. When I pulled the permit, it
should have been inspected.
From my understanding, when these things happen, okay, he --
when these things kind of happened, they put a fine on individuals and
they don't have to come up here. I know peoples it happens to all the
time.
But anyway, gentlemen, please keep in mind that I put that air
handler in to a smaller space. And these homes over there in this
particular area were installed by a contractor that did a great deal of
mass building. These jobs over there drain out of what's called an
emergency drain line. The homeowners have always believed that the
emergency drain line is the primary line. It's because of the installation
these men have done.
Now, these air handlers don't last long because they rot out. The
air handler I put in has the variable speed motor. It's a computer -- you
know, it's really nice, and a very good operational thermostat for that.
Now, this particular motor will not slip when it's moving air. I
set it up so that when it's rotating, it does not pick up water so that it
slings it around the air handler. So that when -- if I couldn't have set
that thing up properly, I wouldn't have did it. But with that particular
unit, it's a two-stage condensing unit, and with me being able to adjust
that fan I could make it work properly.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Phillips.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand you're telling me the
mechanical ways of how you're doing the job, but this is really
irrelevant to the case. It's irrelevant to what we want to hear.
We're asking you a few basic questions.
MR. PHILLIPS : Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: First of all, number one, did you get a
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May 20, 2009
permit for this job?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: When did you get the permit?
MR. PHILLIPS: Sometime I would think in May, maybe April.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: How long before that did you install this
air conditioner? Did you get the permit before you installed the air
conditioner?
MR. PHILLIPS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Why? Answer.
MR. PHILLIPS: The gentleman wanted it quick.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: How long have you been in business?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, sir, I've been in business since '82, and my
father licensed me back in those days, if I may say, and it was legal.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We're not talking about your father, I'm
talking about you.
MR. PHILLIPS: No, I just wanted you to know it was legal.
Sir, the reason I didn't pull a permit?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. PHILLIPS: I was in a hurry.
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Joslin?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: In a hurry.
MR. GANGULI: I'm sorry. I stated that I had no further
questions. May I ask one more?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You sure may.
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Phillips, what's the status of the permit?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, I pulled that thing away. I can't pull that
permit. I mean, that thing bums down, I mean, I'm not going to take
that thing. And that's not -- I mean, all those lives? God's going to take
care of that, man.
MR. GANGULI: So your installation of the air conditioning unit
doesn't have an active permit that was ever inspected; is that correct?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, no, sir. What I did is I went to the county
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May 20, 2009
and I told them that another contractor was on the job and I wanted to
pull mine off. Homeowner has the right to do that.
MR. L YKOS: Did you ever get any inspections done on the
permit that you did pull for that installation?
MR. PHILLIPS: No, sir, I was delayed by--
MR. L YKOS: Okay, thank you, that's all. That's enough.
MR. GUITE': Mr. Neale, what are the penalties for what has--
what the charges have been brought up against him?
MR. NEALE: Well --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Let's hear the evidence and find out first
of all --
MR. GUITE': I'm going somewhere.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- we need to prove ifhe's proving him
guilty or not guilty, first of all.
MR. GUITE': I'm going somewhere --
MR. NEALE: This is something Mr. Guite' can ask, I mean, as
to what the specific penalties are.
The penalties that this board can impose on this respondent in
this matter, because he is a state contractor, is that this board can deny
the issuance of permits or require issuance of permits with conditions
for his license. And then this would be reported to the State
Construction Industry Licensing Board within 15 days as well.
MR. GUITE': Any fines at all?
MR. NEALE: And the board cannot recommend any fines or
any other penalties other than just deny the issuance of permits in
Collier County.
MR. WHITE: So for someone who thinks he understands, what I
heard you say was that the only authority we have is with respect to
his permit pulling privileges.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Correct.
MR. NEALE: That is the only authority that the board has on a
state contractor.
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May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: Understood.
MR. NEALE: Then the board would refer this matter to the State
Construction Industry Licensing Board for further action.
MR. GUITE': You realize what he's saying?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. I'd like to state this: Because of actual -- I
get nervous when I get in front of something where I can get in
trouble.
MR. GUITE': Well, that's where I'm kind of going. Do you think
you might want to have somebody represent you?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, no, sir. I mean, I didn't do --
MR. GUITE': Okay, that's all I care about.
MR. PHILLIPS: Well, sir, you said a statement that do I
comprehend stuff. And it seems like you guys -- I mean --
MR. GUITE': No, I just asked if you understood what Mr. Neale
said, that we could restrict your permit pulling privileges, which
would basically put you out of business in Collier County.
MR. PHILLIPS: Absolutely. That's where I always do business.
And --
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Ganguli?
MR. GANGULI: Sir?
MR. L YKOS: Was Mr. Phillips provided with a copy of the
packet that we were given?
MR. GANGULI: I hand delivered it to his home of record at 23
Hastings Place, yes, sir.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Phillips, do you have a copy of that packet
with you today?
MR. PHILLIPS: No, sir. That's my ex-wife. I'm getting in my
place down at Marco. She won't -- I mean, I won't go around there, I
guarantee you that. She took it. I can't get that.
MR. GUITE': So you weren't notified of this hearing?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, I was told on the telephone it was going to
be next month on the 20th, and I got a piece of paper from Rob this
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May 20, 2009
morning, I went down to the county. Said it was 9:00.
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Guite', there were two certified letters sent
to two different addresses of record. Again, I made drop service to the
address of record. And coincidentally Mr. Phillips was in our office
this morning, I greeted him and he was very pleasant and seemingly
unaware that he had a hearing today which I informed him of, and
handed him another copy of the notice of hearing.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Therefore, I think that he was properly
served and knew about the case today --
MR. GANGULI: That's for you to decide if I've done enough. I
feel that I may have --
MR. HORN: I have a question for county staff. Do we have a
record of how many permits Mr. Phillips has pulled in this county in
the past year perhaps?
MR. JACKSON: In the database we do have a record of that.
MR. HORN: Any ballpark figures on that?
MR. JACKSON: I could look into it.
MR. HORN: Just out of pure curiosity.
MR. JACKSON: Sure.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, I'm going to go to closing
statements. I think we've heard pretty much--
MR. BOYD: I have a question first.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- everything that's gone on.
MR. BOYD: What inspections are required on an air handler
replacement?
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Boyd, we're fortunate to have the chief
mechanical inspector for Collier County here. May I call him as a
witness to answer your question so I don't provide any inaccuracies?
MR. L YKOS: Please do.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You sure can.
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Turner, would you --
(Mr. Turner was duly sworn.)
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May 20, 2009
MR. TURNER: Jim Turner. I'm the chief plumbing mechanical
inspector for Collier County.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Ganguli, do you have questions
you'd like to ask of this witness?
MR. GANGULI: I do. I'll let Mr. Boyd ask his.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. BOYD: Good morning, Jim. What inspections are required
on an air handler and condenser replacement?
MR. TURNER: On a change-out we just do a final inspection --
MR. BOYD: Okay, thank you.
MR. TURNER: -- for a change-out.
MR. WHITE: Could I inquire as to whether a separate building
permit is required to alter trusses? Or is that something that typically
would be within the scope of the building permit to install the air
handler?
MR. TURNER: No, that would require a separate permit. The
trusses are a structural item and that would have to come under the
structural inspections, not under the mechanical.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would that also require a different
contractor or a general contractor to do this work, or could an AC
contractor pull this permit?
MR. TURNER: Most trusses come with a repair form with them.
As long as they're repaired the way the truss manufacturer says it has
to be repaired, it can be done that way. And we would just inspect to
see that it was done the correct way.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: At the address that's listed on this
applicant's complaint form, was this air conditioner ever finalized?
Did it ever have a final inspection.
MR. TURNER: Not that I'm aware of, no, sir.
MR. JERULLE: On a replacement, is a notice of
commencement required?
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May 20, 2009
MR. TURNER: Over $7,500 requires a notice of
commencement for AC change-outs.
MR. BOYD: What specifically do they do on the final
inspection? Do they get up in the attic and actually inspect?
MR. TURNER: Yes, sir, we check the connection, check the
breakers and the wiring, make sure that they got what they paid for.
MR. WHITE: With respect to the repairs that were done by the
second contractor, was a permit necessary for that work?
MR. TURNER: I do not know what he did, so I don't know. If
it's just repair work, no.
MR. GANGULI: Gentlemen, I'm showing Mr. Turner Exhibits
E-22 and E-23, which are the invoices of the second air conditioning
contractor and the monetary amount that he charged in order to rectify
the issues.
MR. WHITE: It was very hard for me to read those copies. They
were very faint.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, me, too.
MR. WHITE: Perhaps if you've got a copy there, Mr. Turner,
that under the details of work to be performed and you can read yours
on E-22 and E-23, that would really help me.
MR. TURNER: I'm not sure what it says either.
MR. WHITE: Does anybody have a legible --
MR. BOYD: It looks like it's, found only one stage of the heat
was wired to turn on. Add a jumper from WT, whatever, to W2 to
allow all stages of heat to run.
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Boyd, E-24 is a sworn affidavit from the
second air conditioning contractor. It's relatively clear in comparison
to the numbers on the invoice, if that happens.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One quick question. Also the charge to
do that jumper wire that it was put into was 6995; is that correct?
MR. GANGULI: That's what I could gather from the invoice,
yes, sir, Mr. Joslin.
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May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: I see there's a statement in there by that contractor
on E-24 that the simplicity of the corrections did not require any
permitting.
Would you agree with that statement, Mr. Turner?
MR. TURNER: Yes. Just a repair, yes, it would not require a
permit.
MR. HORN: Sir, when an air handler's being inspected by a
county representative, if they notice the truss is cut, they would put
that into their findings or report at that time?
MR. TURNER: Yes, they would.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Also, it says in the actual complaint
services -- or the compliance service from Joseph Trapanese, qualifier
of Anytime Air Conditioning and Heating. He says states at the
bottom, in the process of this service call I noticed modifications made
to the roof trusses. And he informed the homeowner who said he was
already aware of this.
So the homeowner must have gone up in the attic and looked at
the trusses that were cut?
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Joslin, the homeowner told me that some
of the work Mr. Phillips did ran well into the night and involved noise
that would coincide with what you observed in the photographs.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Any other questions from Mr.
Turner, board members?
(No response.)
MR. PHILLIPS: May I please --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you like to ask some questions of
Mr. Turner?
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm sorry, Mr. Turner--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Come right up to the podium. Come to
this side for just a moment, please.
Short and sweet. Questions only, please.
MR. PHILLIPS: Mr. Turner, I'm sorry --
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May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Excuse me, a little closer to the
microphone.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, sorry.
Sir, on a 15 kw system do you not require another circuit of at
least a 30-amp, sir, used to be average? Two circuits on a 15 kw heat
MR. TURNER: On a 15 kw?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. The 80 amp don't work anymore for
years, SIr.
MR. TURNER: No.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. So the first circuit is for 10 kw. That is
one relay, sir. The next relay will be for the other 5 kw heat, if I
installed a 15 kw, which I did not. There's one relay that turns on all
the heat. I showed even the homeowner the -- I mean, I showed him
amperage drawn on that heat. I showed him outside when he turned it
on, he could see that meter turn.
I did the best I could. Now, that 10 kw has one relay action that
turns on every bit of that heat. So how could they go and jump it out if
he had heat at all?
I mean, these guys are lying. I'd like to know if they have a
license, Rob, down here in Collier County. They're from Cape Coral.
Did you check that out?
MR. GANGULI: I did.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, easy.
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm just asking.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, you can have a seat over here.
MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Turner, I think we're done with you.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Chairman, if I may answer Mr. Horn's
question regarding Mr. Phillips' building permits.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, go ahead.
MR. JACKSON: The county database is showing one building
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May 20, 2009
permit in 2009, zero building permits in 2008, five building permits in
2007.
And the database also shows that Mr. Phillips was able to obtain
building permits in 1992. The database only goes so far back,
however. But that will give you the last three years.
MR. HORN: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Phillips, if you'll pardon me, I have one question for you.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
MR. HORN: I apologize--
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, no, man, thank you.
MR. HORN: -- if I misheard you, but I think you said you've
done close to guestimating 15,000 homes in this county or so?
MR. PHILLIPS: I would think so.
Does the gentleman have the information that would be -- now, I
would like to say in 2006 on Thanksgiving Day, I took out about five
feet of Marco Bridge, all the concrete. And one piece of rebar held me
back and a truck run me over. And he was petering (sic) off the bridge.
They pronounced me dead. I could hear 'em.
So I broke my back in two places, I crushed my hips. I hit that
thing so hard because I was in a Shelby Piper. I wasn't going fast.
There's a lot of power, 730 horsepower.
MR. HORN: If you'll pardon me, Mr. Phillips--
MR. PHILLIPS: I mean, I was out of work, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One time. Hold on--
MR. HORN: I understand.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- hold one. One at a time, here.
MR. HORN: My question is, if you've done let's say thousands
and thousands of air conditionings, how come we only have a couple
dozen permits on record for you in this county? I'm a little confused.
MR. PHILLIPS: He -- for some reason his records only -- I
mean, he said since 1992 I had the possibility, but he didn't say what
the permits were pulled after that for per year.
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May 20, 2009
MR. HORN: I understand, but he has one permit last year, a
couple the year before. I'm a little confused here.
MR. PHILLIPS: Sir, I broke my -- I couldn't move. I didn't have
the ability to do jobs.
COMMISSIONER HORNIAK: So you haven't really been
working that much in the past --
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, no, sir --
MR. HORN: -- couple years?
MR. PHILLIPS: -- I'm just getting fired back up. I still got to
have surgery, sir, okay?
I mean, may I say that when they went through my shoulder, I
got cadaver bone, I got synthetic bone, I got synthetic bone mass, I got
steel and I got screws because I would not take an operation, because I
was going to take care of my son. I stayed in traction for my back to
heal. I re-broke it in six months working.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, that will do that.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you for your medical history,
appreciate that.
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm serious, sir, that's the reason I didn't work.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Ganguli, did you get the opportunity to go up
into the attic --
MR. GANGULI: I did, sir --
MR. L YKOS: -- and inspect the area.
MR. GANGULI: -- I was present when the photographs were
taken.
MR. L YKOS: It looks like from the photographs that some of
the wood that's fastened to these trusses looks new compared to the
material that the trusses are made out?
MR. GANGULI: I would agree.
MR. L YKOS: Is that your opinion, that some of the scabbed on
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May 20, 2009
material was new relative to the existing material that the trusses were
made out of?
MR. GANGULI: I'm flattered that you have so much faith in my
observations, but that's what I would say, yes, sir.
MR. L YKOS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It appears also that -- I'm looking at the
pictures and I'm seeing like -- I'm looking at possibly half-inch or
three quarter inch plywood that are holding some of these trusses
together that have been nailed severely. That's part of the repairs that
were made or adjustments that were made to the trusses?
MR. GANGULI: Again, when I was in the attic I was with
another Collier County building official, Mr. Fleming, and I can't on
the record tell you some of the things he said while he was taking the
photographs in amazement of what he was seeing, sir.
MR. PHILLIPS: May I?
MR. GUITE': Mr. Phillips, did you observe these trusses being
patched back together?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir, absolutely.
MR. GUITE': And you didn't say anything?
MR. PHILLIPS: No, sir, I assumed it was because whoever put
the second air handler in knew about the problems in the development.
MR. GUITE': You didn't show the homeowner?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, he -- I mean, sir, I don't know if I showed
him or not. We looked at the -- I was on the ladder, okay. And what
was wrong with the system, actually, sir, was not the air handler but
the compressor. So we -- I don't know if we sat and--
MR. GUITE': I understand that.
MR. PHILLIPS: -- talked about the air handler.
And may I say also that wood that is put onto a truss repair, I
would say for most of the time, excuse me, is like white pine. The
trusses are made out of like a hard pine, I don't know why that would
be, so it would be a different color, okay?
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May 20,2009
Now, if it's new wood, Rob would be able to tell, but it would be
new wood, okay?
Also, the reason, I had to put decking in to make it legal. And
also, may I say that one of the trusses were cut. The home -- I mean, I
forgot this. The homeowner had a little piece of wood on there so that
he could get up in the attic; otherwise he couldn't store stuff.
So yes, sir, he knew the trusses were cut. I have to say that's --
so, yes, sir, he knew or else he couldn't get in the attic.
And the second -- see, he didn't say nothing until the second AC
contractor got there, and he couldn't find nothing, so they come up
with the truss thing. My system was right.
I will say one thing, that I told the homeowner this: Ifhe didn't
want to run a new thermostat wire -- because it cost more money to
put a wire down a wall, you know, 150 bucks or so -- that what we
could do is take the fan that would circulate air through the whole
house and nothing else worked out of the circuit. Therefore we'd have
enough wires to make the heating and cooling work properly.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Phillips, you're going off on a
tangent again. Again, we're talking about the charges that are against
,
you, we re --
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- not talking about the installation --
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm sorry, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- or the methods. I mean, I hate to keep
interrupting you but, you know, this is getting to be hearsay and old.
MR. PHILLIPS: I'm sorry. What is hearsay, may I ask?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Let's try to stick to the case itself and the
charges.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir, absolutely.
Please keep in mind, gentlemen --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm going to go ahead and close the
public hearing -- I mean closing statements, I'm sorry.
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May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: Just one specific question.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Go ahead.
MR. WHITE: Have you seen this packet?
MR. PHILLIPS: No, sir, I haven't got it.
MR. WHITE: I would ask if you could -- someone show him
E-16.
MR. PHILLIPS: Absolutely, thank you.
MR. GANGULI: Only E-16, Mr. White?
MR. WHITE: Yeah, that's fine.
You see the piece of white lumber?
MR. PHILLIPS: Absolutely, sir.
MR. WHITE: Do you recall installing that, or not?
MR. PHILLIPS: I don't -- no, sir, I wouldn't --
MR. WHITE: It goes horizontal.
MR. PHILLIPS: -- did that.
No, sir, I don't even know what -- that white pine is there. I
mean, if you see the other board, it's old. Okay, I mean, I don't know
why it's cut, sir.
MR. WHITE: My question is do you remember putting that
piece of wood there or not.
MR. PHILLIPS: No, sir, this particular truss was the way the
gentleman got in and out of the attic. I know I -- the air handler sits
right down here, sir, in the bottom of this. This is the truss. The air
handler had the little wooden latch to get up in the attic. He could not
have accessed -- oh, excuse me. He could not have accessed the unit
without this thing being cut.
So when the second AC company comes in, they see that. I
mean, he had a latch on it.
MR. WHITE: Okay.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
MR. WHITE: That's what I was thought you were referring to
and why I asked. Thank you.
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May 20, 2009
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. You can see that white pine. I mean,
it's got a screw in it or something. It's probably so he could move it
and get it -- see, it's only got one attachment. See it could be moved?
Please.
MR. WHITE: Yeah, I see that. It looks like a bolt at the bottom
or a screw.
MR. PHILLIPS: The bottom? That's a knot, sir, from a tree limb.
MR. WHITE: Oh, okay.
MR. PHILLIPS: Excuse me. It's not attached; it's made to move.
MR. WHITE: And it rotates from the top?
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. That way he can remove the truss and
he can get up in the attic.
MR. WHITE: I got you.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay, thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So in essence you did cut that truss in
order to get that air handler up in that attic.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, no, sir, that's the homeowner's way in the
attic. I cut that thing in little pieces. And this is a bigger area than --
everything in the attic is bigger than the hole I put it up in. And I didn't
remove nothing out of that hole. I put it in a 1 7 and a half inch area.
This area is bigger underneath there with the air -- the air handler
is approx -- I think it's 26 by 21 installed. So see, this area down there
is bigger all the way around. I can get it in there. This opening here,
sir, okay, this board is going up. It's going up to the ceiling. This one's
coming down. When this comes down, it's big enough to put that unit
in probably three, four inches on one side. I make sure it's paping
(phonetic) .
And on this side I don't know, I don't know how much, but I had
some room. So I put it up through here. And I'd bring it down and
install it in the air handler. There was -- this goes up into the roof, sir.
This is a larger area. I could climb through that easily.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So how did that board get there?
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May 20, 2009
MR. PHILLIPS: The home -- I don't know, but that's the
homeowner's way in the attic.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And you didn't do that?
MR. PHILLIPS: See, I can't say the homeowner cut it. I don't
know who cut that thing. But I know it's the way the homeowner --
see, there's no -- he uses that to get in that attic.
I don't know who cut it. I mean, this truss is cut all over town,
sir. I mean, I didn't know I was supposed to be telling actually about
all these things cut and these fire walls and stuff, you know. I don't
report this stuff.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: How long have you been an AC
contractor?
MR. PHILLIPS: The license -- I guess Rob said 1982. And--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And 1,500 ac unit conditioners--
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, sir --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- and if you went up there and saw a
whole bunch of trusses cut you wouldn't tell anybody about that?
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, it'd be common practice. Everybody knows
about it when they go up in the attic. The electrician knows about it. I
mean, this is -- I'm not saying -- well, you don't see a lot of newer stuff
now, sir, but you see -- I mean, in all these buildings around town you
see it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, I think I've heard enough.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you so much.
MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you so very much.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Ganguli, do you have any closing
statements to make?
MR. GANGULI: I do, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you like to elaborate on them,
please.
MR. GANGULI: Again, gentlemen, we've heard a lot this
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May 20, 2009
morning. And I want to reemphasize that we are dealing with a state
certified contractor, which imposes some limitations on us.
And the subject matter we're dealing with is working without a
permit, once again.
MR. PHILLIPS: May I -- I'm sorry, may I add one thing?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No.
Continue.
MR. GANGULI: One of the missions of the contractors
licensing office is to provide a viable recourse to homeowners when
there is reason to believe that a job performed by a contractor was not
done correctly.
In this case it appears that numerous facets of this air
conditioning installation were not done in accordance with the
standards set by the Collier County Building Department.
The most fundamental of these responsibilities is of course
acquiring a building permit when necessary to provide validation of
the work performed to the required inspections.
In this case the respondent was not only inadequately licensed to
do frame carpentry but also failed to obtain engineering and
permitting for the modifications to the roof trusses.
The failure of Mr. Phillips to obtain a building permit prior to
commencing work within his own licensed profession provides
reasons for concern. The simple explanation attested to by the second
air conditioning contractor of why the unit failed to operate correctly
in the first place also raises questions about the capability of Mr.
Phillips' installation to successfully pass inspection.
The culmination of all these issues has resulted in the
homeowner, Mr. Koenig, having to endure unnecessary financial
expenditures and inconvenience that could have been easily avoided.
Since Bob's Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, Incorporated is
a state certified contractor, the Collier County Licensing Board has
limited jurisdiction -- I'm sorry, limited jurisdictional authority in this
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May 20, 2009
matter.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Now, Mr. Phillips, I'm going to ask you
for a closing statement.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't want to hear no more about how
you did it, what you did. Closing statement on the charges that are
against you.
MR. PHILLIPS: Okay. It's been brought up about my past
history and the amount of work I did. I just paid off a $1.42 million
house that I bought in Miramar Lakes that actually is worth about 3.5
now. I've only been employed by myself and I've only done air
conditioning work.
You have heard IRS problems in this room. I've been audited
and they went deep, sir. They were after me and ended up giving me
back 30 -- no, $24,000. I overpaid -- I make sure I always do my job,
thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, if you want to have a seat,
please.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir, thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm going to go ahead and ask for any
kind of other questions from the board before we close the public
hearing.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No other questions, I need a motion to
close the public hearing.
MR. L YKOS: So moved, Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have a motion.
MR. JERULLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Second, Mr. Jerulle. Motion and a
second to close the public hearing on Case No. 2009-06.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
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May 20, 2009
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Now, just to let you know, Mr. Phillips,
just so you know, we're going to go into deliberations here where
we're going to discuss what was heard and the case. And then we're
going to discuss that between the board members up here.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All comments now are closed.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you.
MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You'll hear what we say.
MR. PHILLIPS: Oh, thank you, sir. Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Ganguli, you can have a seat, if
you'd like to, unless you have anything else.
MR. GANGULI: Mr. Joslin, I have a recommendation, if you'd
care to hear it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'd like to hear that, sure.
MR. NEALE: Well, it's not appropriate to make any
recommendation at this point --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry.
MR. NEALE: -- in that first you have to find --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: After deliberation.
MR. NEALE: -- him in violation and then -- so let me proceed.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You can have a seat for just a minute.
We'll call you back.
MR. NEALE: -- I'll charge the board and then, you know, should
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May 20, 2009
you find him in violation.
As Mr. Joslin noted in the introductory remarks, I'll give a brief
charge to the board at this point and then the board will make its
deliberation.
That the board shall ascertain in its deliberations that
fundamental fairness and due process have been afforded to the
respondent.
However, pursuant to Section 22-202(G)(5) of the Collier
County Ordinance, the formal Rules of Evidence as set out in Florida
statutes do not apply. The board shall consider solely evidence
presented at the hearing in the consideration of this matter and shall
exclude from its deliberations irrelevant, immaterial and cumulative
testimony. It shall admit and consider all other types of evidence
commonly relied upon by a reasonably prudent person in the conduct
of their affairs, whether or not that evidence would be admissible in
the court of law or equity.
Hearsay in a case such as this may be used to explain or
supplement any other evidence, but by itself is not sufficient to
support a finding in this or any other case, unless it would be
admissible over objection in civil court.
The standard established for sanctions in a case such as this,
since it does not affect the license of the contractor directly, is that a
preponderance of the evidence must be found to convict.
The standards in evidence are to be weighed solely as to the
charges set out in the complaint, which is Section 4.2.2 of the
ordinance, and the charge specifically here is willfully violating the
applicable building codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County.
In order to support a finding that the respondent is in violation of
the ordinance, the board must find facts that show the violations were
actually committed by him. The facts must show to the preponderance
of evidence standard the legal conclusion that he was in violation of
the relevant section of the ordinance.
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May 20,2009
As these charges are the only ones to which the respondent has
had the opportunity to prepare a defense, these are the only ones that
the board may decide upon.
Any damages that may be found, should the respondent be found
in violation, must also be directly related to the charge and may not be
for matters unrelated.
The decision made by this board today shall be stated orally at
this hearing and is effective upon being read.
The respondent, if found in violation, has certain appeal rights to
this board, the courts and the State Construction Industry Licensing
Board as set out in Collier County Ordinance and in Florida Statutes
and Rules.
If the board is unable to issue a decision immediately following
the hearing because of questions of law or other matters of such a
nature that a decision may not be made at this hearing, the board may
withhold its decision until a subsequent meeting.
The board shall vote upon the evidence presented on all areas,
and if it finds the respondent in violation, adopt the administrative
complaint.
The board shall also make findings of fact and conclusions of
law in support of the charges set out in the administrative complaint.
The board now should go into deliberation on whether he is in
violation.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think it's -- pretty much as far as I can
see, he's pretty much guilty as far as the permit goes. It's something
that's definitely within the count of the 4.2.2. And I think it's a little bit
open as far as whether the trusses were cut by him or not. We have no
definite proof that he did it. We've got a lot of hearsay that says so.
We can act on hearsay, correct?
MR. NEALE: You can act on hearsay, but again, the only
charge that he is really brought forth on is whether he willfully
violated the Collier County codes. And failure to pull a permit --
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May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is a willful violation.
MR. NEALE: -- is a violation, if you found it to be willful.
MR. JERULLE: We have an affidavit from the owner saying
that he cut the trusses.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yeah. The trusses I think don't really get
involved in it right now. Basically the permit is the issue and the fact
he didn't get inspections and he didn't get a final inspection. Which
he's pretty much admitted that. And pretty much it's obvious he didn't
get a permit.
MR. WHITE: I think those facts are fairly clear. And although I
have some understanding of his rationale for canceling the permit,
based upon the work done by the second contractor, and it seems to be
his professional belief that by putting a jumper across it may have
created a circumstance that would in his opinion not comply. But
without an inspection of that, we're kind of left to wonder.
But the fact of the matter remains, in my view of things, that it's
his own admission, including the cancellation of the permit, that
makes clear that there's a willful violation, that it's his intention to not
obtain and comply with the permitting requirements.
I don't believe that there's a preponderance of evidence that
demonstrates he's the one who cut the trusses. It was either hearsay or
it was testimony on both sides, sworn testimony on both sides, that
one side said he did and he says he did not.
Certainly, you know, looking at the photos seems to help. I don't
know what the spacing of the trusses may be, but it certainly seems
compelling to me that if it took three days and he disassembled the air
handler, that it wouldn't make much sense to cut the trusses.
But I think the clear thing for us for a finding of fact is in regards
to the willful violation of the permitting requirements.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: After he's put in 1,500 so-called air
conditioners throughout the year, I'm sure that there would be more
permits out there in the field.
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May 20, 2009
MR. WHITE: I kind of ignored that. He's not here and no one's
alleged that he did other work without a permit except this one, so I'm
kind of not going to give that much weight.
But for this one I'm pretty certain he's willfully violated the
permitting standards. Even though I understand why, I don't agree
with him. The only way he could have kind of kept himself from
being here today would have been to gone and get the inspections and
deal with whatever needed to be done to correct it.
MR. GUITE': Well, he should have pulled the permit before he
even started the job.
MR. WHITE: Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Absolutely agree
with that.
MR. L YKOS: Well, I'll tell you that the three guys at this end of
the bench, that truss cutting's a pretty serious situation.
MR. WHITE: Well, absolutely, no doubt about it.
MR. L YKOS: And even ifhe didn't do it, I've had some projects
where I've seen some things. Not only do I bring it to the homeowner's
attention, but I will not continue until there's a solution for that.
MR. GUITE': Exactly.
MR. L YKOS: If I go up in somebody's attic and there have been
trusses involved, been cut up and there have been repairs that I
question, I will bring in an engineer and I will determine if the repairs
are correct and I will provide an estimate to the client for the proper
repaIrs.
So in my mind that's even worse than the air conditioning issue.
Because that roof structure was --
MR. JERULLE: Compromised.
MR. L YKOS: -- compromised several times.
MR. WHITE: Is there an affirmative responsibility of a
contractor to report some prior violation or belief that there was a
structural alteration that may not meet code? I don't know. And I don't
remember anybody saying today that that's why he was here, because
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he failed to report it. What they I believe alleged was that he did it. I
mean, that's a different thing that's not part of this case.
But I understand your concern, and I agree with you, I think it's
a dangerous circumstance, especially in regards to not only load
ratings but also hurricanes, so --
MR. GUITE': Now, if we do find him guilty and turn this over to
the state, does this packet become part of what goes to the state?
MR. NEALE: It's part of the record that goes forward.
MR. GUITE': Pictures and all?
MR. NEALE: Pictures and all. Because it's part of the record in
this case, so it all goes forward.
MR. GUITE': We really can't do anything about it.
MR. L YKOS: We can't fine him.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Be aware that the only thing that we can
actually do, being a state certified contractor, is stop his permit
privileges here in Collier County. The rest will come from the state
board. If the board deems to allow that information to go there, or
sends it there.
MR. L YKOS : Well, it doesn't seem like --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I didn't say we weren't going to.
MR. L YKOS: It doesn't seem like if we pulled Mr. Phillips'
permit pulling privileges --
MR. GUITE': That wouldn't matter.
MR. L YKOS: -- that it would affect his business very much.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No.
MR. GUITE': No, I think you're right on that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: There's probably 1,499 without permits.
So I'm looking for an entertainment for a motion to find Mr.
Bobby J. Phillips --
MR. WHITE: I think we have--
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Chairman, excuse me for a second. I know
I'm not ready to go there yet. Or maybe I -- under the count, which
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says he willfully violated the applicable building codes or laws of the
state, city or county, I don't know that we can't interpret that that
includes the situation with the roof structure. Because if --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't see how you're going to be able to
do that, Mr. Lykos, because --
MR. L YKOS: I know, I'm trying --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- you have no definite proof. Now if--
MR. L YKOS: -- to figure out a way --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- you come up with a way--
MR. L YKOS: I'm trying to figure out how we can -- because
we're limited in the disciplinary action that we can take, here's kind of
where I'm coming down on this.
If we are forced to exclude the roof truss situation to whatever
level of culpability he has, if we're forced to exclude that, then I want
the disciplinary action to be as harsh as possible on what we hold him
accountable for, okay?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
MR. L YKOS: If we can find some way to hold him responsible
for some part of what happened to the roof trusses, then I want to
thoroughly investigate that before we make a decision on what we find
him guilty for and then subsequently what the disciplinary action is.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, then I'll go to Mr. Neale.
MR. NEALE: If I may, the--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Neale?
MR. L YKOS: So we need to defer to you on that.
MR. NEALE: The real issue is there is only one disciplinary
action available, period.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Period.
MR. NEALE: And so whether you find him guilty of kidnapping
Lindbergh's baby or cutting up roof trusses or whatever, the sanction's
going to be the same.
Unlike in numerous other cases on this board, you know, if you
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find him guilty and you determine based on the facts that he is to be
sanctioned, there is one sanction available. So --
MR. L YKOS: Okay.
MR. WHITE: What I'd suggest, Mr. Chairman, in order to make
sure that this case is as airtight as possible, that we propose to take a
vote on finding him guilty or not and what we would find him guilty
of I'd propose should read something like this, that failing to timely
obtain the required building permit for air conditioning work and to
obtain the required inspections and C. O.
MR. L YKOS: We have to find him guilty of the count.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, really --
MR. WHITE: My point is --
MR. L YKOS: Yeah, we can't do that.
THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, there are a lot of you
talking at the same time.
MR. WHITE: My point is that you find him guilty of the count,
but that the finding of fact is basically that he had failed to timely -- as
I just read it.
MR. NEALE: Typically the finding of fact, the way this board
typically finds, is the board incorporates as a finding of fact what is
contained in the administrative complaint. And so therefore that would
incorporate what you've suggested so --
MR. WHITE: The only thing that's in the complaint is Count
One, and all Count One says is he willfully violated the applicable
building code, et cetera.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
MR. WHITE: There is no--
MR. GUITE': You have to read the summary, yeah.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But that Count One is going to lead to
the rest.
MR. WHITE: That's not incorporated by reference. It's -- I don't
know what the summary is relative to the complaint, but it isn't the
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complaint.
And that's why I was looking simply to say that, you know, if
there's a necessary finding of fact, it's going to go forward and be what
the CILB looks at. I think we've got to give them at least something
that they can certainly agree with as at the minimum why we found
him to have violated Count One. Without any debate, without any --
MR. NEALE : Well, the findings of fact, the way this board
typically finds, is that the allegations of fact as set forth in the
administrative complaint are found to be supported by the evidence.
So what that does is incorporate all the allegation of fact within the
administrative complaint.
MR. WHITE: Is the administrative complaint the first two
pages?
MR. NEALE: No, the administrative complaint is the
administrative complaint and all attachments. That --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: This entire package.
MR. NEALE: -- whole packet is adopted as Exhibit A.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. Everything inside that packet goes
together.
MR. NEALE: So that all goes in the evidence.
MR. WHITE: Okay, there was nothing in any of these
documents that connected it to. And I apologize for not knowing that
that was what was represented by the evidence packet.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, it all constitutes what is really Exhibit A.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It's just that being a state certified
contractor, our hands are somewhat tied as far as penalties or sanctions
we with can put on him here. But once we provide the guilty factor or
not guilty factor of the count, then this whole packet will go to the
state board, in which then they will open it up and then they can go
further with it, if they need to.
MR. NEALE: And the -- as it goes forward to the state board,
the finding of fact will say that this board has found those allegations
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of fact contained within the complaint are found to be supported by
the evidence at this hearing.
MR. L YKOS: All right, I'll make a motion that we find Bobby J.
Phillips, Jr., d/b/a Bob's Air Conditioning and Refrigeration,
Incorporated guilty of Count One, Collier County Ordinance 2006-46,
Section 4.2.2, willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws
of the state, city or Collier County.
MR. WHITE: Second.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: There's a motion and a second on the
floor.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is any opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Zero opposed. Motion carries
unanimously.
MR. NEALE: All right, the second section here is since the
board found the respondent in violation of the ordinance, the board
shall consider and order sanctions under the parameters that were
discussed, which is since he is a state licensed contractor, the only
sanction available is the denial of the issuance of permits or requiring
issuance of permits with conditions. Those are the only two choices.
In imposing the sanctions, the board shall consider the gravity of
the violation, impact of the violation, actions taken by the violator to
correct that violation, any previous violations committed, any other
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May 20, 2009
evidence presented at this hearing by the parties relevant as to the
sanction that is appropriate for the case, given the nature of this
matter.
Then the board also shall issue a recommendation to the State
Construction Industry Licensing Board. Recommendations of: No
further action, suspension, revocation or restriction of the license, or a
fine to be levied by the State Construction Industry Licensing Board.
So the board can make other recommendations to the state
board.
MR. WHITE: Is it possible in terms of restricting permit pulling
privileges to confine that to a period of time or an event certain?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The privileges are suspended, period.
He's found guilty of the charge. The only way he can do this was ifhe
was (sic) somehow in an appeal form come back and found not guilty
of this charge.
MR. NEALE: Or the board -- Mr. White brings up a good point.
The board could set out a time certain for the -- you know, that the
issuance permits are denied for a period of a year, two years, five
years.
MR. WHITE: Well, what I was thinking, gentlemen, was that we
would certainly kind of pull all his permit pulling privileges until such
time as the CILB comes up with its findings, one way --
MR. L YKOS: We don't know how long that is.
MR. GUITE': It's like four years out.
MR. WHITE: That's fine with me. But the point is I wouldn't
think we'd want him pulling permits during the time period in which
we're not certain that the state's going to ultimately come to a
conclusion one way or the other.
I'm satisfied he's violated it and think that one of the
recommendations we might make to them would be in the form of a
fine. But in the interim I think the point is that I don't know that it
makes sense to have him allowed to be able to pull permits. I think
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May 20,2009
we've all heard enough to say that -- on whether it's just a willful
violation of not getting a permit or getting the inspection and CO or
the failure to address the truss issues, whether he caused them or not,
are adequate enough to say that he ought not be in a position to pull
permits in Collier County, and that the recommendation to CILB
ought be one that indicates we felt it serious enough that we withheld
his permit pulling privileges until they made a determination. And that
if they believe on the other side of things that no further discipline is
warranted beyond that period of time, so be it. But I still think that a
recommendation of a fine to CILB would be in order as well.
MR. NEALE: And the board can make that recommendation.
They can recommend -- this board can -- you know, even though they
can't do it in this forum, they can recommend to the Contractor
Licensing Board, this board can recommend, that they revoke his
license, that they fine him up to the statutory maximum of$10,000. So
those two penalties are certainly within the purview of this board to
make that recommendation to the state board.
MR. JERULLE: Does the county staffhave a recommendation?
Before we make a decision, I'd like to hear what they have to say.
MR. GANGULI: Gentlemen, I'm somewhat parroting here.
It is a recommendation of the county that the permit pulling
privileges of Bob's Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, Incorporated
be revoked against Mr. Phillips' State License CAC-054717, and this
finding of fact be forwarded to the Florida Department of Business
and Professional Regulations for further action to be taken at their
discretion.
MR. LANTZ: Can I just ask a question?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
MR. LANTZ: If he has no permit pulling privileges, that's not
putting him out of business. He can still do service calls and repairs
where you don't need a permit. So we're not doing very much,
realistically.
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May 20, 2009
MR. JACKSON: You're correct.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Unfortunately that's the hands that are
tied.
MR. LANTZ: I just want to make sure --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're absolutely correct, he can, yes.
He can also go put air conditioning systems in like he maybe has been
doing without a permit, but we have to catch him in it.
MR. L YKOS: For our new members, I remember one of my first
couple of sessions I was eager to revoke somebody's license, and our
previous chairman, Mr. Dickson, said remember, when you do that,
functionally you're taking away somebody's ability to earn a living.
So we need to be careful how we act in terms of going to the
fullest extreme of our abilities, which is revoking somebody's license.
If this were a situation where he built a home, didn't get a permit and
there were severe structural problems and somebody got hurt and
when that homeowner tried to get satisfaction from the builder and the
builder skipped out of town with money, that's a severe situation
where revocation of a license would seem appropriate.
My opinion is that this offense is something less than a
revocation of a license. Probably a suspension.
Your point is very well taken that if we suspend his license for
30 days, 60 days, 90 days, whatever it is, he can still do service. He'll
probably do some replacements that we won't know about. And if we
revoke his license, he'll probably do the same thing.
But I think in keeping with what we've done historically and in
keeping with what a worst case scenario is in terms of a crime against
the community, revocation is probably not appropriate in this
situation.
MR. WHITE: Are you speaking, Mr. Lykos, in terms of a
recommendation to CILB or something within the scope of our
authority to limit his permit pulling privileges?
MR. L YKOS: Within our authority.
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May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We can't go any farther than that at the
moment. We can make recommendations --
MR. WHITE: So we're not going to revoke his license, we're
simply going to restrict his permit pulling privileges to some degree or
not.
MR. L YKOS: Right. Perhaps suspend him for 30 days, 90 days.
Which would limit his -- the work that he can do to service work and
maintenance and those kind of things. But it would in theory prevent
him from replacing air conditioning units or installing new air
conditioning units. Assuming that he actually abides by the law and
doesn't do it without his -- without pulling permits.
MR. GUITE': We've only revoked I think maybe one since I've
been here.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Maybe five in my nine years.
MR. GUITE': Yeah, so it's --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It's got to be pretty serious and right now
MR. GUITE': -- it was really serious last time.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We can't prove the seriousness of this
case. Not getting a permit, not getting an inspection, okay, it's a
serious factor, but it's not detrimental to -- as it is to not have trusses
cut in your home.
But we cannot -- physically I don't think we have the evidence to
prove that. So it would be very impartial of us to take a man's license
because of evidence that we can't prove.
MR. GUITE': And if somebody came in and rewired it and did it
wrong, probably it's putting the homeowner in more danger than
cutting the truss, so --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And I'm looking at the charges on this
also of $69 and $200 for a bad thermostat. Now, being a contractor
myself with brand new air conditioners and brand new heat pumps,
that they come right out of the box bad. So it's not saying that it was
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his fault that it was bad. And then we're theorizing on the trusses.
So I think I agree with Mr. Lykos, I don't think this is a case
where we should be trying to really take away his livelihood, only
restrict his livelihood to a degree of going out and trying to put in new
systems again.
MR. WHITE: So it's a question of time I guess between what I
was suggesting it be that his permit pulling privileges be withheld
until the CILB rules. If that's going to be a matter of years, then we
have kind of a large gap of time between what seems many of the
board members are thinking and what I was suggesting. I was under
the impression that this thing would get to the CILB and probably be
heard within a matter of months and decided --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No, no, no. It would probably take,
ballpark I'm thinking two years, the back log they have.
MR. L YKOS: The busiest time of the year for the AC guys is
coming up, summer. Ifwe limit his permit pulling privileges for -- or
remove them for 90 days, that would get through -- it would be his
busiest time of the year. That I would hope would be pretty good
punishment for somebody that can go get a permit basically over the
counter.
So, you know, I'm not making a motion yet, I want to throw here
that 90 days during the busiest time of the year is probably pretty good
disciplinary action.
MR. JERULLE: Listen, I don't think we're going to be -- by 90
days or nine years, I don't think you're going to affect his business.
And the reason I say that, he can always act as a subcontractor. He is
still a licensed -- Florida state licensed contractor that can have
another AC contractor hire him to do the work and the other AC guy
pull the permit.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. JERULLE: So you're really not going to affect his license,
besides the point that you said that he could still do maintenance and
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service calls. So --
MR. L YKOS: That's a great point, Terry.
MR. JERULLE: -- I don't know that we're ever going to affect--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is there -- how about another way to
restrict his -- the permit pulling privileges, yes, but as far as to put him
on some type of a --
MR. L YKOS: One-year probation?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- a probationary period of maybe every
90 days or every three months for a period of a year and have him --
allow Collier County staff to be able to monitor his permit pulling
privileges. That will restrict him from being able to just go in and pull
-- and then monitor those inspections and monitor those permits.
MR. NEALE: I don't think that falls within the purview of what
the sanctions are the board can --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: What we can do.
MR. NEALE: -- impose. I mean, it's -- in a deny or permit --
have permit pulling privileges with restrictions.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
MR. NEALE: Now, that -- what those restrictions might be, I
don't have any good information on what that power is, but --
MR. WHITE: I would imagine potentially -- in other cases I've
seen they would limit the scope of work, for example, that you might
be able to do, dollar limited jobs, I don't know --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I mean, we've had other contractors with
the same -- not the same scenario but something similar to it where
they have to report every job that they do.
MR. NEALE: But that was -- those were locally licensed
contractors.
MR. L YKOS: Yeah, those were workers' compo
MR. JERULLE: Can --
MR. NEALE: And those were locally licensed, not state
licensed.
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May 20,2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I gotcha.
MR. NEALE: You know, the question would come to what this
board's interpretation of the phrase requiring issuance of permits with
conditions would be.
MR. JERULLE: Ifwe did suspend his license -- and it's a
question -- can we make it contingent upon him coming back before
us before --
MR. NEALE: Well, you can't suspend his license.
MR. JERULLE: Right, excuse me, I misspoke. Pull the permit--
MR. NEALE: Well, you know, as I say, it really turns on how
the board interprets the phrase requiring issuance of permits with
conditions.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, that would stem into the fact of
being able to put him on a probationary situation where the county,
every time he was to go in and, say, pull a permit, he would be under
the supervision of the staff monitoring that permit. And if he was
caught doing any other work in any other job, in any other complaints,
the license would then go to the state board as far as being a willful
violation of that? I mean, I'm trying to put words together here to see
if we can't put him on a real page, but --
MR. JERULLE: See, I want to pull him into the fold, so to
speak. I want him to come back and recognize the board and recognize
the county and be a good honest contractor. I don't want to push him
away and have him go out and do work without pulling permits.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, you have to look at it this way,
too, he's been here since what, 1986 he says? Now, that's a long time
to be a contractor here, a state certified contractor. And I don't know if
staff can come up with any other penalties or any other violations that
he's had or any other complaints he's had on record. And ifhe hasn't--
MR. L YKOS: Well, in 15 years he's pulled seven permits.
What if we do this, 90-day suspension of his permit pulling
privileges and one-year probation. If he gets caught on a job where he
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doesn't pull a permit, he will be on probation when he gets caught and
he'll have to come back in front of the board. And ifhe does ajob
without a permit in the next year, well then we can actually revoke his
license.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We can't--
MR. HORN: Permit pulling--
MR. L YKOS: His -- you know, functionally -- that's why we
keep getting caught up in it, because functionally it's --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It's what we'd like to do.
MR. L YKOS: Right. I mean, that's what the net result is.
MR. JACKSON: Mr. Chairman, may I?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, you may. Sorry.
MR. JACKSON: If Mr. Phillips is found in violation today and
in two weeks or six months Mr. Phillips performs another installation
with no building permit, that's going to be considered another willful
violation --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Correct.
MR. JACKSON: -- and he'll be back in front of this board no
matter what, probation, no probation. It would be considered another
willful violation and again he would be in front of this board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand that. So we wouldn't have
to set up all the extra rules. I mean, that's automatic.
MR. JACKSON: I think the concept of probation is redundant,
because if he does it again he'll be here.
MR. L YKOS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So it's either deny his permit privileges
or it doesn't matter.
MR. JACKSON: Revocation or suspension is the way I'm
looking at it. And a suspension with a stipulation, perhaps.
MR. WHITE: You're again talking about of permit pulling
privileges.
MR. JACKSON: Of his ability to obtain a building permit and
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nothing more.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Jackson, I'll ask you then, what's
your recommendation?
MR. JACKSON: First of all, the county would certainly like to
see the installation of this unit permitted. And if that doesn't happen,
certainly it would not weigh well on Mr. Phillips.
MR. WHITE: So are you suggesting that we would withhold his
permit pulling privileges, for example, until he obtained the necessary
-- reopened the permit, obtained the necessary inspections and got a
CO for Mr. Koenig's unit?
MR. JACKSON: A suspension would be--
MR. WHITE: At least that long?
MR. JACKSON: -- would be far more reasonable, provided he
permitted what brought him here in the first place.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: This job.
MR. WHITE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Very good.
MR. JACKSON: If that is not permitted, I think a revocation
would be appropriate.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, so the other contractor that came
in and finished the job actually did not then get a permit for it?
MR. NEALE: They didn't have to.
MR. JACKSON: The installation to this date is not permitted.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, I thought they -- that's what I
thought they did.
MR. NEALE: And the board does get caught in a Catch-22 if
they suspend his permit pulling privileges but then he has to pull a
permit to get this job finally permitted and inspected, he doesn't have
the ability to pull permits so -- I think what Mr. Jackson's driving at,
give hilll the window to pull this permit, get it --
MR. WHITE: Well, certainly--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can we given him a time span of--
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May 20, 2009
THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, can we speak one at a
time, please.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry.
MR. L YKOS: Sorry.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can we give him a time span of say 30
days or 15 days? I don't know how long it would take to get an AC
permit, but it shouldn't take that long. And to get the final inspection.
If it's already inspected and running and working, it shouldn't take too
long.
MR. WHITE: May I make a--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can we give him a 15-day grace and if it
doesn't happen within the 15 days, or even a 30-day period, then his
permit privileges are suspended, period.
MR. WHITE: May I make a suggestion?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
MR. WHITE: And maybe this makes more work for us, I don't
know. But certainly in terms of restricting his permit pulling
privileges, we could restrict his permit pulling privileges to this
address only, number one. So I think that solves the question of timing
and it puts in Mr. Phillips' hands whether he's going to come in and get
that permit issue resolved, get the inspections and get the CO.
And then I don't know whether we have the ability to carry this
case forward to a point in time where once that permit is obtained and
hopefully C.O.'d that we would make a further determination at that
point in time as to a period of time to reconsider the scope of
restriction on his permit pulling privileges, meaning that they would
be suspended indefinitely, with the exception of this address, until
such time as we would come back and further consider.
My point being simply to be able to evaluate first whether he's
going to get the permit and fix the problem for Mr. Koenig, and then
secondarily, depending upon what is done from the building
department's point of view that's needed to fix it.
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May 20,2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: For the final inspection.
MR. WHITE: Right.
MR. NEALE: I would think, following Mr. White's suggestion, I
certainly think it would be in the purview of this board to -- you've
already found him in violation, that's already done. The board could --
it's permitted within the ordinance and within the statute that the board
could suspend or delay the determination of sanctions until such time
as he performs or does not perform certain actions. So therefore you
could say, you know, that he has a certain period of time to get the
permit, get it inspected and then come back before this board at a time
certain, 30 days from now --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thirty days.
MR. NEALE: -- next meeting.
If he has done that at that time, then you -- or not done it at that
time, then you could at the next meeting determine what the sanctions
are that are appropriate and the recommendations to the board. Is that
MR. WHITE: Practically I think it achieves the same end and I'd
be comfortable with it.
MR. LANTZ: I just have one more question.
If I were the homeowner in this situation -- I assume they're not
on good terms at all. And ifhe came into my house, I would say I
don't want you coming to my house, I don't want you to come on my
property, I don't want you to come to my attic. So I'm just curious as if
the homeowner -- what happens if the homeowner says I don't want
you here, get somebody else to pull the permit and get -- I would not
be surprised if that was the homeowner's response. They may have the
other company come back, whoever did the repair, permanent--
MR. QUITE': But what's going to happen with the roof trusses?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
MR. QUITE': When they go for final inspection, they're going to
kick it back to the --
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May 20, 2009
MR. LANTZ: I wouldn't let him in my roof, in my attic. I mean,
regardless of what the board said.
MR. QUITE': No, but --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But again, though--
MR. QUITE': -- I'd probably just get somebody else to fix it--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Again, though--
MR. QUITE': -- and just move on.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're theorizing though again that the
roof trusses were his -- was his fault.
MR. QUITE': No, no, no, I'm not. That's what I'm saying.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And we can prove that.
MR. QUITE': That's what I'm saying. Because we don't know he
did it. But when he pulls the permit and they call for an inspection and
they go up there to look at the unit, they're going to see the roof
trusses have been cut and they're going to fail the inspection. So he's
in a Catch-22.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't -- go ahead, I'm sorry.
MR. L YKOS: If I remember right, there was a state law that
passed, I think it was in '08, giving contractors one year with right of
first -- first right to come in and repair any defects. The owner has to
provide written notice of construction defects and the original
contractor has one year to effect those repairs or offer a financial
settlement for the value of those repairs.
So even though the homeowner may not really like to have Mr.
Phillips back in his home, there is a state law that gives Mr. Phillips
one year to go back and make those repairs.
MR. LANTZ: Does that give him access or that gives him the
homeowner doesn't have financial repercussions if he does?
MR. L YKOS: The law is that the contractor has one year to
make the repairs or offer financial remuneration. So in this situation
we're requiring that he actually make the repairs. He can't give the
homeowner a check for the cost of -- the value of those repairs. He
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May 20,2009
actually has to go back and complete the job and make the re -- to our
satisfaction.
So there's a state law that would allow him on the property to do
that.
MR. WHITE: One of the things that was in the packet was a
statement from an engineering company that dealt with what were the
neces -- or what were going to be proposed as the necessary steps to
repair the truss. I don't know that we have that information yet or how
long it's going to take to get that information. It could be a fairly
simple matter to get those things repaired, I don't know. And we won't
know.
But I think the point is that if we put Mr. Phillips in the position
of having to take responsibility for it to complete the job and he
chooses not to, that's in his hands. We're not saying that he did it,
we're not saying he's responsible to take the blame for them having
been cut, but certainly there's an understanding it seems in the county's
permitting staff that a contractor, regardless of AC, electrical or
otherwise, has some responsible duty to notify the homeowner and
potentially the county that there have been trusses cut. And that
certainly seems to be a concern of this board.
So I think we put the keys in Mr. Phillips' hands to address the
matter. And if there is a financial consequence of doing that, I think
he's going to have to weigh that, and he's going to have to look at what
the subsequent costs are going to be in appearing before the CILB if a
month from now our recommendation for sanction is potentially more
severe because he did not step up to the plate.
And so I think the idea that we've made the finding, as Mr. Neale
indicates, we table the determination of the sanctions till our next
meeting, and I think Mr. Phillips is probably aware that what we're
expecting he will do is renew the building permit, get on up there and
-- well, I don't even know if he has to go back, but certainly county
inspectors go in and look at it, see what needs to be done and address
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May 20, 2009
those issues.
If another permit is necessary to repair the structural aspects of
the trusses, hopefully the engineering firm will have made its
recommendation shortly, and they'll have adequate information on
how to fix it. And if he bears the cost of doing so, I'm going to be far
more inclined a month from now to be a bit more lenient. And I would
. .
ImagIne --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So we suspend his permit privileges for
30 days except for this particular home address permit, allow him 30
days to be able to go in and make the repairs --
MR. WHITE: So long as Mr. Neale --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- or at least act on it and try to get a
final permit and then report -- or come back before this board and we
hold sanctions until the next meeting.
MR. WHITE: Further sanctions. And if I understand what Mr.
Neale was saying, I think we have the latitude to do that.
MR. NEALE: Certainly.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Rather than actually act on it today,
other than make the act of we found him guilty --
MR. McNALL: Found him guilty, and then the sanction that
would be imposed is a 30-day suspension of permit privileges, except
for this residence.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
MR. NEALE: And then he would come back here at the next
regularly scheduled board meeting for review and final imposition of
sanctions and recommendations to the CILB. So any recommendation
to the CILB is held in abeyance until next month. The only sanctions
being ilnposed is he's suspended for this month, except for this
address.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And then should he go ahead and finish
all the permits, get the final inspection and possibly make the truss
repairs or whatever has to be done there to make this thing pass
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May 20,2009
inspection, then he is basically off the hook, or --
MR. NEALE: No.
MR. L YKOS: No, no, no, we'll make the determination next
month.
MR. NEALE: All you do next month --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's what I mean, after that 30-day
period. But then when he comes back, then we can make our final
determination.
MR. NEALE: Then you make the final determination. Board
makes the final determination at that time as to what if any other
sanctions are imposed.
MR. L YKOS: I can agree with that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I can agree with that.
MR. GUITE': Is that truss cut?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry?
MR. QUITE': Is that truss cut?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Where?
MR. QUITE': I don't know, show me.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: There?
MR. QUITE': No, anywhere, I don't care.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I can't tell.
MR. GUITE': It's not.
MR. JERULLE: Ian, are we having a board meeting next
month?
MR. JACKSON: Yes, we will be here in June.
MR. GUITE': On this one you can't tell.
MR. NEALE: Okay, we're going to need --
MR. L YKOS: A motion.
MR. NEALE: -- a motion on that sanction.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, we're going to -- one second.
We're going to suspend --
MR. L YKOS: Thirty days suspension, with the exception of that
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May 20, 2009
address.
MR. WHITE: May I attempt one, Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure, go ahead.
MR. WHITE: I move that we suspend Mr. Phillips' permit
pulling privileges in Collier County until June 17th, 2009, or such
time as this board next meets, with the exception of those permit
pulling privileges being allowed at the address of Mr. Koenig's
residence, and that we withhold making further recommendations on
sanctions to CILB until that June or next meeting date.
MR. L YKOS: Second, Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion and a second. All those
in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
MR. PHILLIPS: Gentlemen, may I ask--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So the order of the board is findings and
facts.
This cause came before -- came on for public hearing before the
Contractor Licensing Board on May 20th, 2009 for consideration of
the administrative complaint filed against Bobby J. Phillips, Jr., d/b/a
Bob's Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, Inc., license number
16193/CAC054717. And the complaint, No. 2009-06.
The board at this hearing heard testimony under oath, received
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May 20, 2009
evidence and heard arguments respective to all appropriate matters
thereupon issues its findings of fact, conclusions of law and order of
the board as follows: Findings and fact are that Bobby J. Phillips, Jr.,
d/b/a Bob's Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, Inc., is the holder of
record of license number 16193/CAC054717. That the Board of
Collier County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, is the
complainant in this matter. That the board has jurisdiction of the
person of the respondent. And that Bobby 1. Phillips, Bob's Air
Conditioning and Refrigeration, Inc., was present at the public hearing
and was not represented by counsel at the hearing date on May 20th,
2009.
All notices required by Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105 as
amended have been properly issued and were personally delivered.
Respondent acted in a manner that is in violation of Collier
County Ordinance No. -- Section 4.2.2 in a manner that -- in violation
of Collier County ordinance and is one of -- who committed the act.
The allegations of the fact as set forth in the administrative
complaint as to Count One, Collier County Ordinance 2006-46,
Section 4.2.2, willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws
of the state, city or Collier County, are to be found and supported by
the evidence presented at the hearing.
Conclusions of law alleged and set forth in the administrative
complaint as to Count One are being Collier County Ordinance
2006-46, Section 4.2.2, willfully violating the applicable building
codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County are approved,
adopted and incorporated herein. To wit: Respondent violated section
-- willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws of the state,
city or Collier County in Collier County Ordinance 90-105, as
amended, in the performance of his contracting business in Collier
County by acting in violation of the section set out in the
administrative complaint with particularity.
The order of the board: Based upon the foregoing findings of
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May 20, 2009
facts and conclusions of law, and pursuant to the authority granted in
Chapter 489, Florida Statutes, and Collier County Ordinance No.
90-105, as amended, by a vote of 8-0, eight in favor and zero opposed,
a majority vote of the board members present, respondent has been
found in violation as set out above.
Further it is ordered by a vote of eight in favor and zero
opposed, a majority vote of board members present, that the following
disciplinary sanction and related orders are hereby imposed upon the
holder of contractor's certificate of competency No.
16193/CAC054717. That Bobby 1. Phillips, Jr., d/b/a Bob's Air
Conditioning and Refrigeration, Inc. has been found guilty and his
permit privileges in Collier County have hereby been suspended with
the exception of the address of --
MR. WHITE: 185 Berkshire Lakes, unit five, I believe.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: 185 Berkshire Lakes, a Mr. William
Koenig, spelled K -0- E- N - I -G.
MR. L YKOS: No, that's not right. It's like 690 Compton Lane or
something.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry, it is -- homeowners -- sorry,
reverse that.
It is 6901 Compton Lane South. That is Mr. William Koenig.
K-O-E-N-I-G.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That his privileges be suspended for a
period of 30 days, except for that particular permit. And he will be
brought back before the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board
after that 30-day period to see if the permit has been completed and
finalized and all items regarding that permit have been satisfied.
He will return before this board in 30 days for the sanctions, but
these sanction will be held in check.
MR. NEALE: In abeyance.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: In what?
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May 20, 2009
MR. NEALE: In abeyance.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Advanced (sic) until the 30-day cycle
when he comes back for the next board meeting, which will be on
June 17th.
Does that pretty much leave nothing out?
It is hereby ordered. That's it.
MR. PHILLIPS: You guys are elected, right? Do I get to go
around town taking pictures?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Phillips, at this moment I think I
would consider myself very lucky.
MR. PHILLIPS: Sir, I don't know, you guys are -- you guys are
-- you don't think I pulled that many permits and you don't even check
it out? I mean, you guys are -- I'm serious, man. I mean, you take my
license away when I've been perfect --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you, sir. No, wait.
MR. PHILLIPS: No, I don't got to wait, you're not my judge.
MR. NEALE: Well, yeah, you sort of are.
MR. GUITE': Maybe we should have--
MR. NEALE: Yeah, you really sort of are, guys.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We tried not to. And we didn't.
MR. GUITE': I was trying to get him to back down and hire an
attorney.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, there are all kinds.
We tried to do a guy a favor and maybe it didn't work. Maybe
that's just what needs to go on TV and be heard because --
MR. NEALE: Well, the thing is you do get to see him again
June 17th.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes. Aren't we lucky?
MR. ZACHARY: And you can tune in tonight and--
MR. NEALE: And watch yourselves again.
MR. GUITE': Now, would that be considered the new member
orientation?
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May 20, 2009
MR. L YKOS: Orientation? That's a pretty good orientation.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes. Everyone got their feet real wet real
quick, huh?
MR. NEALE: Yeah, the new member orientation, what I was
going to suggest is that we have a brief session prior to or after the
next meeting to orient the new members on how the procedures work
and everything. But I think unless they have specific questions, they
can certainly ask Mr. Zachary or myself, but I think today's meeting
was a good indoctrination to every possible procedure we've ever had
and then some. So --
MR. ZACHARY: Or to paraphrase the ordinance, orientation
would be superfluous.
MR. NEALE: Yes.
MR. WHITE: It's the mid-evil practice of trial by fire?
MR. NEALE: Yeah, pretty much.
MR. L YKOS: Mr. Chair, before we adjourn, couple of
comments and then a request.
For those that don't know, I'm also president of the Collier
Building Industry Association. We have a group that meets with Mr.
Schmitt and Mr. Dunn on a regular basis. And due to some of the
budget constraints that have arisen in the last year, the CDES staff,
including the licensing staff, has been on furloughs. And according to
Mr. Schmitt, very soon they'll be going to a four-day work week.
If you've been paying attention to the quantity of citations that
have been issued, in March there were nearly 100 citations issued, and
then in April after the furloughs started the citation number dropped to
less than 70.
I have serious concerns about the amount of unlicensed activity
going on in Collier County, about the number of licensed contractors
who might be letting their insurance lapse or their workers' compo
lapse or might be doing work without permits. And I think it's a time
we should be ramping up our licensing investigations and even adding
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May 20,2009
to our staff, which is opposite of what's been going on. So I wanted to
make you aware of that, number one.
Number two, I don't know how we do this, but I would like for
the board to pass a resolution recommending to Mr. Schmitt and to the
County Commissioners that the licensing staff be maintained at full
staff, at full working hours, and to also consider adding another
investigator so that we can address the life safety issues and the best
interest of the consumers of Collier County under these difficult
economic times.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's a good idea. A resolution I don't
think is possible, but we can make a recommendation to the Board of
Commissioners and they probably can act on it.
I know I have been in discussion with Mr. Henning and Ms.
Fiala for the past two months now about the same situation. They're
doing their best to be able to try to keep the licensing personnel on
staff all the time. And I think probably maybe this conversation will
add another little cog in the wheel that hopefully we can do something
about that.
It's very difficult right now as far as finding out who works and
who doesn't work. I agree with you 100 percent, though, that licensing
should be at full force right now plus. Because we're going to have
more and more and more of unlicensed activity going on. And I just
don't think it's going to be a good thing to be laying off people or
going to a four-day workweek. And so you're absolutely correct.
MR. L YKOS: Well, the other thing is the City of Naples laid off
their code enforcement officer, so Mr. Kennette now has to spend his
time in the city. So it's almost like we lost a person to begin with,
because the city laid off their person, so we dropped -- functionally we
dropped an investigator when we had to pick up for the city's loss.
And when we go to furloughs and four-day work weeks, I mean,
it won't take long for the people that want to skirt the law to figure out
they can work Fridays, Saturdays, Sunday, they can work at night and
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May 20, 2009
staff's already overworked.
I mean, we have a responsi -- we come here to protect the
community from bad contractors, from unlicensed activity, and the
actions of the people in charge here are only promoting that. So I think
we need to make sure that Mr. Schmitt knows that Mr. Mudd knows
and the County Commissioners know that we need the licensing board
to be fully staffed. If not, add more people.
MR. GUITE': We also need to let the consumers know that they
need to report any suspicious contractor activity. If they do enter in a
contract, make sure they do have a licensed contractor with insurance,
and use licensed subs.
As you know in the past I've come down on the homeowners for
hiring an unlicensed contractor. I think they're just as much at fault as
the unlicensed contractor. So it is up to the homeowners to, you know,
just check it out. You see some -- hear some sawing or banging or
something going on, just it doesn't hurt to give the licensing a call.
MR. WHITE: Just a question. I have some familiarity with the
way that the fee structure and budgets work with respect to other areas
of the county, but I'm not as up to speed I think on how permit fees
and other aspects relate to the enforcement arm for contractor
licensing.
And if there's someone who can either give us a kind of brief
presentation on it, I think that could help us in making a
recommendation. I don't mean to supplant our role, but --
MR. NEALE: Mr. Ossorio's done that in the past, and I'm sure
he will again, is he has provided this board with a revenue summary of
what the contractor licensing staff generates in terms of permit fees
and fines and so forth. And it's a fairly revealing number in that based
on what this board has seen in the past, I believe it would show that
the contractor licensing staff more than carries itself in terms of
revenues.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: More than carries itself, exactly.
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May 20, 2009
I think it probably -- it may be in line if the board so decides that
either myself and maybe Mr. Lykos as chairman and vice chair can go
and try to have a meeting with Mr. Dunn and Mr. Mudd and see if we
can't come up with some methods of being able to come up with an
answer of keeping these people on staff and tell them the reasons why
in person, if need be.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, and I would--
MR. L YKOS: I know Mr. Schmitt would be open to that
conversation. But I think it's important that this board, if it's not a
resolution, that something come from this board to let them know how
important it is, how important what they do is and how important it is
to keep them fully staffed.
MR. NEALE: What this board has done in the past is authorize
the chair and/or vice chair to draft a letter to transmit to the Board of
County Commissioners reflecting the sentiment of the board. So that's
something that certainly could be done.
MR. L YKOS: And they have a meeting next Tuesday.
MR. WHITE: Would a motion at this time in that regard be
appropriate?
MR. NEALE: It would be totally appropriate, yeah.
MR. GUITE': So moved.
MR. WHITE: Second.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So moved. I got a motion and a second
on the floor. All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
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May 20, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Fine, I guess you and I will get together and we'll put a letter
together and go have a meeting and see if we can't keep licensing
working anyway.
MR. LYKOS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think it's a good thing. I think these
gentlemen do one heck of a job out there.
MR. WHITE: If I could encourage you, Mr. Chairman and Mr.
Lykos, to have the latest of those statistics that Mr. Ossorio has
provided. I think that would be compelling. And I only mention that
so that the staff will have an opportunity to work on that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I believe probably Jennifer would be the
best one, because she probably pulls it up on the computer and hands
it to Michael. So she's got the word.
MR. JERULLE: You'll provide a copy of that letter next month?
MR. L YKOS: I'll make sure we get it to the commissioners
Tuesday. I'll be there talking to them anyway about other things, so --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, any other discussions? Any other
thoughts from the board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other--
MR. QUITE': I'll make another motion.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One more?
MR. QUITE': Yeah, that we adjourn.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. L YKOS: Second, Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All in favor?
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. QUITE': Aye.
MR. LANTZ: Aye.
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May 20, 2009
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. WHITE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Adjourned. See you next month.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:28 p.m.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS
LICENSING BOARD
RICHARD JOSLIN, Chairman
These minutes approved by the board on
presented or as corrected
as
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Reporting Service, Inc., by
Cherie' R. Nottingham.
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