BCC Minutes 09/03/1996 R REGULAR MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 3, 1996
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners
in
and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of
Zoning
Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as
have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:10 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in
Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN: John C. Norris
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Timothy L. Hancock
Timothy J. Constantine
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
Bettye J. Matthews
ALSO PRESENT: W. Neil Dorrill, County Manager
David Weigel, County Attorney
Item #3
AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I'll call the county commission
meeting to order on September 3, 1996. Mr. Dotrill, if you could
lead
us in an invocation and a pledge to the flag, please.
MR. DORRILL: Heavenly Father, this morning we give
thanks for our country and for this election day, and it's our
prayer
this morning that the citizens of this community would participate
in
the democratic process and -- and go out and -- and cast their
ballots
today and that you would bless this community today.
Father, our thoughts also go to the Middle East today as
there is new strife and -- and warfare in the Middle East and in
particular that you would guard the safety of Americans who are on
duty throughout the Middle East today.
Father, as always, it's our prayer that the direction
and guidance and the conviction be provided to this commission
today
as they make important business decisions that affect our community
and that this would be both a beneficial and a fruitful time as
part
of this meeting and that you would bless this time together. And
we
pray these things in your Son's holy name. Amen.
(The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Dorrill, I see there's a couple of
changes to our agenda this morning?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir. Good morning, commissioners.
Welcome back. We have several add-on items this morning and then
o~e
continuance. The first add-on item that I have this morning is
under
public works. It will be 8(B)(4). This is a recommendation to
terminate a construction agreement and contract at our convenience
for
phase 2 utility work within the Riviera Colony subdivision and to
then
negotiate a new contract to complete the balance of that work with
a
-- a separate contractor.
We have an additional add-on item, item 8(E)(1), which
will be under the executive office report which is a request to
approve a settlement agreement between the county, the Collier
County
utility rate regulation authority, and Southern States Utilities
regarding the payment of regulatory fees and general compliance
with
your utility rate regulation ordinance, 96-6.
I have one item under other constitutional officers at
the request of the sheriff. It will be item ll(A) which is a
request
to execute a grant application for a project called Cops More.
And I have one item we'd like to continue today. It's
item 16(A)(13) under community development and on your consent
agenda. It's the resolution of a lien for a code enforcement
action,
and that will be rescheduled as necessary.
There is one agenda note there today, and Ms. Morgan had
asked the board to remind everyone in the community that today is
election day and that any voter regardless of party that was
registered prior to August the 5th is eligible and encouraged to
vote
today. And that's all that I have, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Weigel, anything else?
MR. WEIGEL: No, no further changes. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Matthews?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No, nothing.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Hancock?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes, one item. I'd like to add
an item, board giving direction to the TDC for category C funding
parameters.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: You're -- you want to add that on?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes, I'd like to --
MR. DORRILL: 10(B).
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm sorry?
MR. DORRILL: 10(B).
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And that's all I had.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Hac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Constantine?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have no changes.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Do we have a motion?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd make a
motion we accept the agenda as amended. COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second for the
agenda. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #4
MINUTES OF JULY 23, 1996, REGULAR MEETING; AUGUST 6, 1996 REGULAR
MEETING; AUGUST 7, 1996 SPECIAL MEETING; AUGUST 13, 1996 REGULAR
MEETING; AND AUGUST 14, 1996 SPECIAL MEETING - APPROVED AS
PRESENTED
We have a number of minutes to approve.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I make a motion that we approve
the regular meeting minutes of July 23, 1996; August 6, 1996; and
August 13, 1996; in addition to the special meeting minutes of
August
7, 1996, and August 14, 1996.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second for
approval of these minutes. All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
Opposed?
Item #5A1
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER AS CHILDHOOD CANCER
AWARENESS WEEK - ADOPTED
We have a proclamation, Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: We do indeed. Is Mike
Constantine here? Mike, how are you? Come on up.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I keep telling him it's
Constantine, not Constantine, but he won't listen.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Either way.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, we'll both accept it
either way.
We have the following proclamation. Yeah, we have to
turn around and face everyone in the room and in TV land.
Whereas, Florida's greatest resource and most cherished
treasures are indeed our youth who truly have so much to offer.
Included in this population are those children with special needs
who
suffer from childhood cancer and blood-related disease; and
Whereas, while the research and treatment of today has
extended the lives and made a positive impact upon the life
experiences of many of these children and while the number of
long-term survivors is slowly increasing, it is essential that we
work
together as a people and as a state to ensure that this trend
continues on the upscale; and
Whereas, dedicated organizations like Candlelighters of
Southwest Florida Incorporated remain deeply committed to expanding
the resources and education available to families whose children
have
cancer or blood-related disease; and
Whereas, Florida, proud home of some of the finest
medical institutions in the world whose professional staff are
presently at the forefront in cancer research and other advances,
is
pleased to join in recognizing and applauding the valuable role
which
families of childhood cancer patients play in helping our medical
community to reach great heights in the name of caring.
Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that the month of
September
1996 be designated as Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.
Done and ordered this 3d day of September, Board of
County Commissioners, John C. Norris, chairman.
A little aside to this, Mike's daughter is one of the --
is proof positive of the progress being made. She's doing great.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's great.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And, Mr. Chairman, I'd like
to make a motion we approve this proclamation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do you want to say anything?
MR. CONSTANTINE: On behalf of Candlelighters of
Southwest Florida, I'd like to thank the board for your support
during
September, Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. As a parent of a
child
with cancer, I can attest to the great support they offer to the
children and their families. We currently have 165 families, and
we
continue to grow.
We would like to invite the board and the public to an
educational forum to be held at Health Park Hospital in Fort Myers
on
Wednesday -- that's tomorrow -- and the topic will be core blood
transplants. And it's a new and promising treatment alternative to
bone marrow transplants.
And we're also hosting our second annual golf tournament
to be held at Lexington Country Club also in Fort Myers. And
that's
September 21. And if anybody is interested in more information on
the
organization, I have a toll-free number. And if it's all right,
I'd
like to leave some information out on the desk outside.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Sure. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thanks, Mike.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
Item #7A
PAUL LISTENBERGER REQUESTING A WAIVER OF FEES FOR KIWANIS CLUB OF
GOLDEN GATE - REQUEST DENIED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Our next item is a public petition by
Paul Listenberger concerning a request for waiver of fees for
Kiwanis
Club of Golden Gate.
MR. LISTENBERGER: Good morning. I'm Paul Listenberger
with the Kiwanis Club of Golden Gate. We had a block party last
year. It was our first one. It turned out so great, so we was
going
to do it again this year. And so I wanted to see about getting the
fees waived for that block party.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Dorrill, did we waive these
fees last year?
MR. DORRILL: I -- I can't recall. I know the -- we --
in some instances we will waive landfill tipping fees for -- for
clean-ups. I'm not sure that we've ever waived just special event
permit fees. Staff's indicating no.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: How much is the fee?
MR. LISTENBERGER: Like 115, $115.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I know we've had this discussion
in the past that we -- there's no such thing as waiving. It's
basically paying the fee through general fund. In other words, it
has
to get paid anyway. What happens is it comes out of the general
fund
as opposed to just never existing. So because of that we've had to
take a little more strict line on -- on the type of events that we
we consider for that. And it's no indication on the worthiness of
your event. But I think this -- because it doesn't have a history
of
doing it, I -- I'm not inclined to waive the fee for this event
unless
there's something I'm -- I'm missing here. We've done it for
special
equestrians but --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm trying to remember. It
seems like there are a couple times we have --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- have done it. I'm -- I'm
trying to remember specifics because it doesn't do you much good to
just throw it out there vaguely, but it seems to me we have.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But it seems to me we -- I mean,
as much as I support your efforts that if we're going to have a
special -- I mean, every single special event is gonna -- is almost
always for a good purpose. So we should have the fee or abolish
it.
MR. LISTENBERGER: Excuse me. Last year we did pay the
fees. When I went to the county this year to get the permit, they
informed me that if I brought it to the county commission that I
could
get the fees waived. So I thought, well, 115 bucks is a lot of
money
at Kiwanis when you're looking for donations. So I said, okay. We
postponed it, and here I am.
COHHISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Dorrill, we may need to have
a discussion with a staff member over there.
MR. DORRILL: Friendly staff.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I apologize for that. But again,
consistent with what we've been doing at least for the last year,
I'm
-- I'm not inclined to -- to waive the fee on this particular
event.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, I think we've done it
often enough already with other groups that we're gonna have a
difficult time singling out the Kiwanis.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We -- we've done it for strictly
charitable groups. I'm not sure that we do it for a group --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Service groups.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- like the Kiwanis, a service group.
I don't think we've done that before.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't think so, and I really
hate to -- to --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The -- the money you raise
goes where?
MR. LISTENBERGER: It goes to the community, back to the
community. Host of it goes for kids, different events.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, guys '-
MR. LISTENBERGER: This event is free, most of it. I
mean, you know, you -- it's not a fund raiser. This is to give
back
to our community.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, if we're gonna do this, I
mean, I hate to say this, but you guys who just hate that social
service money that we used to give, I mean, this seems a whole lot
like that and --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me ask a question. How
much staff time do we spend processing a special events permit? I
mean, if it's a 2-hour process and we got somebody that's making
40,000 bucks a year doing it, then maybe we need that $115. But if
it's a five-minute or less look over the form and file it
somewhere,
then I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the 115, as
Commissioner
Hancock said. Maybe we need to look at rescinding the -- the
policy.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was me, but maybe -- I think
we either ought to have a fee or not, but I don't think we ought to
waive it on a case by case.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: What we need to do is make a decision
on what we're gonna do here.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: With -- with all due deference to
the Kiwanis and the work you do, sir, I -- I think we need to be a
little more consistent than we have in the past. And I agree with
Commissioner Mac'Kie. Either we have a policy or we don't. So I'm
going to move that we -- we do not waive the fee on this particular
event.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I guess since it's a public
petition we're just taking consensus, but add me to that.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, I don't support that only
because we've done it in the past, and I think we're beginning to
single -- single out a particular group. And I think if we're
going
to adjust our policy to be different than what it's been, then we
should give direction to that but --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. But for the moment our policy
is what our policy is. So I guess we'll move forward and --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I apologize for the time you've
taken.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Three -- three to not do the waiver.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Logical question, Mr.
Dotrill, do you know the answer to the point I just raised as far
as
how much time is spent with that? And perhaps in the future we can
change our policy accordingly.
MR. DORRILL: I -- I don't know how much time. I don't
-- I don't know specifically what permits or coordination -- I'm
sure
there's coordination with the sheriff's department and the
transportation department for barricading the street, and there may
or
may not be a separate cost to have live entertainment or music and
__
and those types of things. But if you're interested, we'll be --
we'll do all that research and provide it back to you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Bring that back at some future
meeting. It doesn't have to be on a rush basis, but bring it back
so
that we can at least examine it because we have a couple of
commissioners up here that are saying they want to -- want to make
sure that we have a policy in place that they -- they concur with.
Thank you, sir.
MR. LISTENBERGER: I would like to say, though, on
September 14, Golden Gate Sunshine parking lot, if you have kids,
Come
on out; and if you don't have kids come on out.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Golden Gate Sunshine parking lot,
that's on the Parkway at 951 on the north end, north side?
MR. LISTENBERGER: Right, right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. LISTENBERGER: Thank you.
Item #8A1
DISCUSSION OF FEES GENERATED FROM BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT PERMIT
APPLICATIONS IN THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND ENVIRONMENTAL
SERVICES
DIVISION - STAFF RECOMMENDATION ACCEPTED; INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE COST OF LICENSE FOR TIME KEEPER SYSTEM
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Move on then to 8(A)(1), discussion of
fees generated from building and development permit applications.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I just start off with a
question for the county attorney, Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Sure.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Mr. Weigel, I hear that there is
an attorney general's opinion that we -- that we are charging --
basically that we're charging the maximum that's lawful in the
attorney general's opinion for building permit fees. But I haven't
seen the opinion. Is that correct?
MR. WEIGEL: No, that's not exactly correct. But -- and
I've -- I've attempted to get the opinion to you. I have copies of
the opinion here to which I can pass out even immediately for you
if
you'd like but --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: As I understood that -- that the
parameters, that that attorney general's opinion while guided --
while, you know, guidance and not binding, you know, we would take
it
very seriously that it would -- that our parameters for this
discussion were limited to fees other than building permit fees; in
other words, PUD application fees, development review fees.
MR. WEIGEL: That's right, and that was the
clarification I wanted to make to your initial question there is
that
the discussion and direction that the board had -- had given to
development services staff encompassed more than mere building
permit
fees but essentially looking at all of the fees that are embraced
within the services of development services and to make sure that
they
are appropriate and reflect the -- the work relationship of even
Some
departments that have not been incorporated into the fee structure.
And I had told the board several weeks ago when -- when
this was -- had first come up that similar to other fee
applications
such as impact fees, for example, there's always a -- a need and a
desirability to show a rational basis and nexus or connection
between
a particular fee and the services that are provided and as the
board
and the staff in the public forum had had a bit of discussion in
regard to comprehensive plan, long range planning, and some of the
__
some of the services that aren't currently embraced within the --
the
matrix of individual fees that -- that come for services out of
development services department.
And the attorney general opinion that you're referencing
is a 1989 attorney general opinion to Palm Beach County, and it was
discussing whether building permit fees could take into account
some
of the costs for services and implementing and regulating the
comprehensive plan.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is -- is a building inspection
fee -- this refers to building inspection fees. Is that a building
permit fee?
MR. WEIGEL: That's a -- Vince certainly can go forward
with a little more description, but that's the building permit fee
and/or CO and the inspections that go -- that go with that, the
building element of a particular structure. We have other fees
with
the county that involve services and permits that are provided that
are above and beyond and different than the building permit fees.
So from that standpoint I think that the attorney
general opinion has some limitation in this application but it's --
but it's valuable as a -- as a general statement indicating that
building permit fees which provide -- attempt to provide for the
costs
of inspection services cannot be a catch-all for unrelated matters.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And is that what our building
permit fee does? I mean, is that -- is the Palm Beach County fee
analogous to ours? Do you know that, Mr. Cautero?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Actually, Commissioner Hac'Kie,
if -- if I may, I think Mr. Cautero probably has the exact
information
you're looking for. What you're asking for in a nutshell is the
cost
associated with a building permit fee is what is charged, the cost
associated with a PUD application is what should be charged, and
the
cost associated with a preliminary subdivision plat is what should
be
charged.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And -- and --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And if we do that, we are, in
fact, consistent with the AGO.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And that including -- that we
should include in that analysis as much of the comprehensive
planning
and natural resources and graphics and other functions as is
legally
permissible.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That is generated by the
request. I imagine Mr. Cautero has the answer to that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm '-
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Cautero, set us straight on this
one.
MR. CAUTERO: Vince Cautero for the record. Good
morning, commissioners. I -- I would agree with what Commissioner
Hancock had just told you. I believe that that is a basis for any
rational nexus when you're looking at those programs that you are
funding and those projects, what is the relationship to the
development review process and the building permit process. And
that's what we've attempted to do in our discussion on July 23 that
the board had after my presentation was trying to bring those
things
together to come up with a fee that the board would charge.
One thing to keep in mind, when the board adopted its
fee resolution some years back, not the revised resolution last
year
with the 50 -- 50 percent decrease, but when the resolution was
first
adopted, there were findings made that the process was all
encompassing, if you will, and that the monies collected from
building
permits and development review fees was going to one pot which is
the
113 fund which funds the entire operation which used to be called
development services. Now with the reorganization, that is split
out
through different departments and different sections, but the
intent
was to put all that money into one pot. The building permit fees
then
are really going across the board like the development review fees
funding the entire development review operation. Genetically I
like
to call it development permit fees, and that money is all into one
pot
if that answers your question --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh, it does.
MR. CAUTERO: -- in that regard. Briefly,
commissioners, the executive summary contains the line-by-line
breakdown that you requested at your August 13 meeting which would
show the permit fee increase necessary to raise the additional
$727,000 to fund the various programs that were discussed by the
board
in July and also at your budget workshops very briefly in June.
The
resolution then would be adopted later this month if the board is
amenable to these potential fee increases.
Again, the permit fee increases line by line show a 15.7
percent increase due to the fact that it was the easiest way to do
it,
quite frankly. No organization that we've met with has supported
the
concept at this point. The Development Services Advisory Committee
on
two occasions at their July and August meeting stated that they
don't
believe that the fee increase should take place for these purposes.
However, what staff did was come back with some scenarios at your
August 13 meeting. And we believe that the best course of action
if
you're going to adopt this program would be to implement a 15.7
percent fee increase across the board.
I will tell you in your executive summary on page 8 of
the development review permit fees, there are some new fees that
we've
included in there to raise some money. We don't know what those
would
bring into the county. But one of those fees we believe is
necessary,
and that is an official letter of authorization that the planning
department or the building department may have to issue for people
that rely on that information either for sale or purchase of
property. I'm estimating that would bring in several thousand
dollars, but we won't know until we have a full year to analyze.
Another fee that we did increase or were proposing to
increase more than 15.7 percent is reinspection fees. Currently
our
reinspection fee on a house or a commercial structure is $16. We
believe that doesn't nearly pay our cost to go out there. I'm
estimating that it would cost closer to $25 on the first one, 35 on
the second, and 50 on the third and thereafter. That is a
substantial
increase, but I feel strongly about that recommendation as does the
building official. That's the only one that you'll see that's
quite a
bit higher than 15.7. One thing --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Cautero, I have a -- I have
a question on what you just said. Why is it a graduated scale
first,
second, or third because immediately on the surface it sounds like
a
penalty as opposed to what it really costs?
MR. CAUTERO: That's what it's for. It's a penalty.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It should be.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Do we have the authority to issue
penalty costs associated with building permits?
MR. CAUTERO: We -- we do that with variances. They're
approximately two or three, maybe four times the cost of the
variance
application. And also when someone applies for permits after the
fact, it's three or four times -- I believe it's three or four
times
the permit fee.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. CAUTERO: Not to exceed a certain amount. There are
penalty fees in your resolution.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think that makes sense. The --
the point that I'm still confused about is if we're gonna accept
this
AGO -- and I think that we should -- the attorney general's
opinion,
then it seems to me that the 15.7 percent across-the-board increase
is
contradictory to what the attorney general's opinion says we're
permitted to do. I thought that the attorney general's opinion
said
you can only -- that -- that our parameters for increasing fees
would
be limited to not -- anything other than a building permit. MR. CAUTERO: Sir?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hac'Kie, have
you read the attorney general's opinion?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just sort of scanned it right
now. But isn't that what you told us, Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: Pretty much so. What I -- what I -- I want
to make sure that everyone understands is that the building permit
fees and other fees that were established or reestablished,
reaffirmed, last fall, for instance, just because they have a fixed
amount that's been recognized by the board does not mean that they
capture or are going to be immutable in time whether it's building
permit fees or the other fees that are -- that are part of that
resolution enactment.
So it probably pays, pun intended I guess, it pays
development services to look at this regularly to determine are
they,
in fact, capturing the true cost of the services they are providing
for each element. But pursuant to the attorney general opinion, it
is
appropriate to look at each element of service comparing it to each
element of fee exaction so that you have a basis there.
Another thing in regard to the penalty provisions that
exist, again, if we look at -- in some cases if we look at the
policy
behind the penalty as well as the extra costs that development
services sector has to involve itself with with after-the-fact
situations, again, those I feel much more confident are defensible
on
a -- on an issue-by-issue basis as opposed to the broad 15.73
percent
across-the-board kind of increase. And as your counsel we would
prefer if those are ever challenged to answer the challenge to
penalty
type of fees. As we would, we wouldn't lose the babe -- baby with
the
bath water arguably. We would be defending on those particular
penalty items.
But the big picture, yes, the attorney general opinion,
as you state, Miss Mac'Kie, would -- would appear to indicate that
an
across-the-board, enveloping increase does not work because you
have
to show, just as we do with impact fees and other fees, a
relationship
from the service that's being charged and -- and the service being
provided.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I realize, Mr. Cautero, you
know, we sprung this on you and you had to -- you know, on this
short
amount of time that we gave from budget hearings till -- till now
try
to come up with a way. But what I guess I'm worried about is on
the
record and honestly we're saying that a 15 percent across the board
is
because it's the easiest way to do it and we don't have enough time
to
do it more -- do a more thorough analysis. That worries me.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think there may be a -- there
may be another answer to that question. And that is that we do not
have a specific time accounting program within development services
that allows us to to the penny determine the exact cost of review
of
every PUD that's ever come through or at least in the last 12
months.
So sometimes you have to make a professional estimate of what that
cost is based on experience. And I think we have one of the more
experienced individuals in front of us giving us that estimate.
Mr. Cautero, you've been very candid on this item in the
past. And in your professional estimation, do the numbers that are
being presented to us today fairly reflect the review costs of each
application as it comes through? And I'm asking for your
professional
opinion on that.
MR. CAUTERO: The exact costs, no. The costs are
higher. And the reason that they're higher is they're based on
valuation tables from the Southern Building Congress International,
and the reason that they do that is because there are different
levels
of review for different types of project. So the SBCCI has done a
great deal of research in determining -- and I'm talking just about
building permit fees -- in determining what is a reasonable cost to
review a structure, plan review a structure, and inspect that
structure. And a lot of communities in Florida have adopted those
valuation tables as the basis for their building permits.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: When, in fact, the cost is
actually higher you're saying?
MR. CAUTERO: I believe the cost on the permits is
actual to the penny higher than what you might be paying people.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. CAUTERO: But keep one thing in mind. Your building
permits generate somewhere between 3.8 and 4 million dollars per
year. The cost to run your building department is 2.2 million.
That
money goes into the pot that pays for all of development review
because the other applications don't bring in enough to offset the
costs for your, shall I say, planning review and development review
functions. So it balances out in the long run, but the building
permits are the lion's share because that's where the action is, if
you will. That's where more of the applications are coming in and
paying more dollars because there's just more permits there. It
balances out in the long run.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: But in the approach you're
proposing today, we have an increase proposed to those nonbuilding
permit areas --
MR. CAUTERO: As well as building permits.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- as well as building permits.
MR. CAUTERO: Right.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. But those nonbuilding
permit areas, what is proposed today, are you comfortable that it
is
-- is an equitable amount to cover the cost of review?
MR. CAUTERO: Oh, yes. I'm comfortable it's an
equitable cost to cover review, although I would like to look at it
a
little bit more closely, and I will with the Development Services
Advisory Committee.
If we didn't raise -- I know you have another question.
But if we didn't raise building permit fees -- we did some
calculations, and that was in the memo August 13 -- your
development
review permit fees would be looking at a 60 percent increase. And
I
don't believe that would be equitable if you didn't raise building
permits also because some of this could be attributed in our
analysis
to building permits and I believe the board's analysis that you add
it
to ours on July 23. The 15.7 is the easiest way to do it at this
point in time, and no organization that we met with actually went
through it and said, "We don't agree with that. That should only
be
an 8 percent increase," or "That shouldn't be at all. Raise the
next
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: But that might be because we
haven't had time for that level of analysis I have to say.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, and we don't have the
tools, Commissioner Hac'Kie, and that -- that was my second
question.
With the IT department putting PCs on every desk in development
services, we should not have a problem implementing a log-on, log-
off
program with individual PCs that can track time spent on
project-specific areas. This was a pet of mine two years ago when
we
always talked about government operating more like a business.
There's -- there's no amount of engineers and planners that don't
turn
in time sheets every day in private sector.
Now, it may not always be practical, but with -- with a
-- a computer on every desk over there, okay, which I'm not sure if
we're there yet but we're close, log-on, log-off times and record
of
that done during test patterns throughout the year would be exactly
what we need to either buttress or -- or verify or not verify the
amounts that we're charging, and I think that's a possibility with
a
little work from IT.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Dorrill --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's the same thing we've
asked the law -- our legal department to do.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- I suspect we have a few public
speakers on this?
MR. DORRILL: You have -- you have one.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Just one?
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Ward.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Ward, if you would.
MR. WARD: Thank you, commissioners. My name is Whit
Ward, and I represent the Collier Building Industry Association.
Let
me start --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Ward, who's that you got with you
there?
MR. WARD: That's our bull dog in case we have to turn
him loose.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Gone over to the dark side.
MR. WARD: Right, yeah. That's -- and -- and I can
understand -- I can understand your thinking. However, let me
start
by saying we -- we really appreciate your cooperation and the
cooperation of -- of your staff in this matter. We have -- we feel
like we've always been fair in payment of our permit fees, and we -
we want to continue to do that. We really do, and we want to work
with you. And -- and we understand the need to balance this
budget.
We understand that.
We -- our concern is that we don't want a balanced
budget on the backs of new homeowners. We think the state law is
pretty specific as to what can and cannot be charged to building
permit fees. However -- and -- and -- and we believe our -- that
the
state law applies to horizontal construction as well as vertical
construction.
However, we -- again, we have the immediate issue and
problem of how are -- what are -- how are we going to get through
this
year? What's going to happen this year? And -- and I tell you
what I
think we would recommend. First, we think there have been more
building permit fees collected. Now, building permit fees to me
are
collective. They're -- they're development, permit, everything.
But
there -- there have been more fees collected thus far this year
than
we have anticipated, than we had anticipated. So we're going to
have
some money there.
What we would recommend that we do is go ahead and raise
the fees across the board the amount of money that it takes to
generate our $727,000 or whatever it is to -- to get us through
this
year's budget, to balance the budget. That money, if it's -- if it
turns out later that -- that the fees aren't justified, it will be
in
development services reserves anyway. And so it isn't like the
money
is -- is gone out someplace. We can address that later.
What we would do then, that doesn't hurt anybody a whole
lot. If we go back and we just nail somebody for 60 percent
increase,
that's a significant increase. Seven, seven and a half percent
increase is what we think the across-the-board fee would --
increase
would amount to. We would then ask that we have an immediate
study,
initiate an immediate study, including our -- our development
services
department, the Development Services Advisory Committee, and
members
of our industry. That would give us up to -- well, we're going to
start looking at next year's budget probably July or so. But that
would give us at least until next July or August to come up with
Some
real solid numbers that we could support.
We -- admittedly we believe that some of the numbers
would be increased, some of the permit fees would be increased.
However, hopefully we -- we could keep some of them at the level
they
are -- are currently. But most importantly, we could support as a
group whatever the fees turn out to be. That would be our
recommendation.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- I appreciate that, and I --
I just want to say one thing, Mr. Ward, and ask you to carry this
back
to your organization is I really -- I need to be clear about that
what
the genesis of my involvement in this was is that I sat in on a
staff
meeting with Mr. Dotrill and -- and heard for the first time,
realized
for the first time that there was a couple million dollars of
property
taxes supporting development environmental services. I was
surprised
by that.
My motivation -- and I -- I believe the rest of this
board too -- is not to balance the budget but to make development
pay
for itself, and I don't think that it was. So I appreciate very
much
that -- that support for this increase for this year, but I want to
be
clear that I believe that that is an accurate reflection of what
the
-- of what ought to be paid for by permit fees instead of by
property
taxes, not that this was this year's, you know, look for a pot of
gold
to balance the budget.
MR. WARD: And it may be. And if that's the way it
turns out, then that's fine. We just would like to see a study
first
so that those fees can be justified.
I would like to go back to the -- woops -- the point I
made earlier that we have generated more income from -- revenue
from
fees than we had anticipated. Our projections are and not my
projections but projections of -- of some national economists are
that
our permit level is going to be about the same for the next couple
three -- maybe three years but at least the next couple of years.
And
so I think from that we could pretty much anticipate that we're
gonna
continue at -- at this level of revenue.
Notwithstanding that, we already know what the level of
revenue is for this year. We can project that into next year, and
__
and we do believe that we -- the fees could -- could stand -- could
be
raised no more than seven and a half percent or whatever it takes
to
meet the amount of money that we need for this year's budget. Then
we
will study it and come back with some actual numbers.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Ward, I -- I -- I understand
what you're saying. You're saying basically take the excess fees
that
were not budgeted that are created from permit fees this year, take
it
off the seven hundred and something and find the rest in a
percentage?
MR. WARD: Yes, yes, that's -- Commissioner, that's
correct because we -- otherwise we're -- we're only allowed to have
__
generate so many -- so much reserves in our development services
fees
anyway. And so if we know that we are generating more than -- than
we
had anticipated, we know that money's already there and it's coming
in, so we just add to it the --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: The only difficulty I have with
that is I've heard from our development services director that the
nonbuilding permit fees he feels with a 15.7 percent increase are
fair
and -- and equitable or at least from his estimation. So I'm not
inclined to lower those that amount.
What I would like to do is give staff direction to
pursue as it's been presented to us today with the additional
caveat
that we get the IT department to bring back to this board the cost
of
the licensing and software for some type of time keeper in
development
services so we can do exactly what Mr. Ward and his industry is
asking
for, verify the numbers that we're charging. And with the
involvement
of the Development Services Advisory Committee in that process, I
think we can do that over one quarter of the course of the next
year
and give us an accurate picture.
That -- that's in a nutshell the direction I'd like to
give to staff. It does leave things the way they're presented
today
which is a little bit higher than what CBIA is requesting of us,
but
it initiates the process of verifying that amount.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I -- I had --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's a motion?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Is a motion necessary because
this was a discussion item?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I liked the idea that -- that --
of the time keeping more than just about anything I've -- I've
heard
in a while. But I wonder -- Mr. Cautero, you came in originally
with
about a $450,000 number of what it was your opinion would be
appropriate to raise the fees. And, frankly, I sort of went
through
and said, no, I don't think that's right. I think it ought to be
more
like about 750.
And since at this point what it looks like we're doing
is what needs to be done which would be this more thorough
analysis,
this more thorough study, I would be more comfortable this year
going
back to Mr. Cautero's $450,000 number and studying it over -- you
know, doing this really accurate, really clear study to know what
it
is that the fees should be.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have two thoughts there:
One is where will we make up the $300,000 out of the general budget
which we'll need to do to balance; and two is that's not what I
hear
Mr. Cautero saying today.
MR. CAUTERO: Well, that -- that wasn't what I was
saying today. But what Mr. Ward has -- has stated is something
we've
talked about previously. The answer to the question of where we
get
the money is our estimate for building permit fees alone, not the
development review portion of the fees but the building permit
alone
is going to be about four to six hundred thousand dollars greater
than
we anticipated in our budget for next year. The reason is when we
prepared the numbers, we didn't have a -- a big or a good base to
go
from with the 15 percent decrease, and we were conservative.
We're going to bring in close to four million dollars
again this year. And as Mr. Ward has just told you, the experts
that
they've retained have stated that they anticipate the amount of
permit
activity being steady for the next several years which should bring
in
that amount of money.
The long and short of it is if we bring in approximately
four million this year, I feel comfortable if we raise that
projection
to approximately 3.8, again being a little bit conservative next
year. There's 400,000 of it. You have two options with the
balance
since the millage rate was -- reflected the decrease of $742,000.
You
could take it out of reserves, or we could raise the fees just to
get
us through one year so you don't have to dip into reserves and then
conduct a thorough study. That would amount to approximately a 7
percent increase, and that's where Mr. Ward's coming up with that
number of 7 percent.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, I guess I go back to
the point Commissioner Mac'Kie made a couple of minutes ago, and
that
is this isn't strictly about balancing the budget. This is making
sure that the industry pays for the services they're getting. And
again, maybe I misunderstood what you said earlier. But when
Commissioner Hancock asked is that your professional opinion that
the
15.7 percent met that obligation or met that goal, I thought you
had
indicated yes.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Except for building permit fees
was your response.
MR. CAUTERO: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: If we just raised it on -- on
everything except building permit fees, what would that generate?
MR. CAUTERO: To raise 742 would be 60 percent. It
would come down, of course -- if you lower the amount of money you
need to raise, of course, the percentage comes down. But if you
needed to raise 742 for next fiscal year and didn't touch building
permits, you're looking at about a 60 percent increase for the
other
fees.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So just because I'm not real
quick with math, what if we had -- what if what we wanted to raise
was
about 450 or the 440 or something that you suggested before and --
and
what we did was something like a 20 or 25 percent increase in
development review fees and a 5 or 6 percent increase in building
permit fees? Would we get there?
MR. CAUTERO: I think you -- yes, you would --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Jump in.
MR. CAUTERO: -- because we're --
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Jump in?
MR. CAUTERO: -- if we change the budget numbers.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Cautero --
MR. CAUTERO: You would get there.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's what I -- that's what I
think I'm going to be looking for.
MR. CAUTERO: You have to change the budget numbers,
though.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Cautero, I -- I have a
question. Two years ago we reduced these fees some 15 percent
because
__
MR. CAUTERO: Last December.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Last December? Not even two
years ago then and -- and -- and that --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Not even one years ago.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah, not even one year ago.
And -- and that 15 percent was developed as a result of your
department's best effort at determining what the fees should be and
the fact that two million dollars was in the reserve account that
paid
off the mortgage on the building and so forth, so the fees were
reduced accordingly.
The only thing in -- in my estimation or in my memory
that has happened since then is a pay plan adjustment which maybe
increased our costs 5 percent, maybe 6 percent. So this 7 percent
number is more realistic to me and -- and then to put some type of
time keeper in effect to -- to develop what the number ought to be.
And as far as where is the balance of the $300,000 coming from, Mr.
Cautero has already said that he's overestimated. We're going to
pull
it out of the 113 reserves and essentially put it right back in
again.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, that -- yes, but that -- that
doesn't get us past the original point of Commissioner Hac'Kie ever
bringing this up in the first place that -- that it turns out that
there is even at those levels ad valorem subsidy going into
development services, and that's what we're trying to eliminate.
So I
think we've -- we've -- we've discussed this long enough. Does
someone have a motion?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, I'll restate mine as a
motion because, you know, I was the only one that trusted his
numbers
the first time, and this board set a course to -- to reach a goal,
and
now it's presented before us and we're budget back pedaling.
My motion is that we accept Mr. Cantero's recommendation
as presented today and initiate IT looking into a time keeper
software
program for development services so that over the next fiscal year
we're able to verify or justify or find out the true cost of these
individual reviews so that the charges can be made commensurate
with
them.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have a question about the
motion. I understood Mr. Cantero's recomm -- presentation today to
also include a projection of increased revenues. And if you take
that
into consideration no matter if we're getting there Mr. Ward's way
or
we're getting there my way or, you know, something else, we get to
the
need for a $450,000 number instead of a $750,000 number. So if
you're
going to listen to everything he said, I think that it's not back
pedaling. It's new information that we need 450 instead of 750.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, I'm going to second the
motion, and the reason is I hear you arguing against yourself now.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I am because I have more
information than I had at the time.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, you're arguing against a
comment you made ten minutes ago when you said this isn't simply
about
balancing the budget. It's about doing the appropriate rate and
having the industry pay for itself. And -- and it's not just
about,
okay, we're 450 short. Where are we going to find it?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: No. I -- that's --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So I'm going to second it and
because of the time keeper suggestion and the specifics of that. I
think that meets Mr. Ward's suggestion that we need to be able to
quantify. Regardless of what the number is now, we're looking long
term. We need to be able to quantify whatever that is.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And if we're over this year, it
will be made up next year. It will come back down if we're high
this
year. And if there's additional monies built up, then that will be
also accepted the next year too.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Additionally, Mr. Cautero has told us
that all in effect we would be doing is restoring the fees to the
level they were one year ago. It's going to be very hard for
anyone
to make the case that -- that doing so is going to put some sort of
undue burden on them because it's the same levels they were a year
ago.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And we can also make a mid-year
adjustment. If the time keeper shows during the year that the fees
are too high, we can make a mid-year adjustment, and that's where
the
overage this year can come in and we won't have to do a budget
amendment. I think -- I think both things can be accomplished
here,
but I'm on the outset going to err at the side this board directed
us
several weeks ago and -- and let it stand.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: In any case, we have a motion and a
second. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
That passes 4 to 1. Thank you, Mr. Ward.
MR. WARD: Thank you, commissioners.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Dotrill, can we get an IT
presentation within 30 days on that, please? I think that's
reasonable. This software's out there on the shelf. This
shouldn't
even be a big ticket item.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: For each unit it might be.
Item #882
RESOLUTION 96-398 ESTABLISHING A 45 HPH SPEED LIMIT ON C.R. 31
(AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD) FROM C.R. 846 (IMMOKALEE ROAD) TO 1,000 FEET
SOUTH OF THE ENTRANCE TO PELICAN MARSH ELEMENTARY SCHOOL - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Next item is 8(B)(2), 45-mile-an-hour
speed limit.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
make a motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. Is
there anyone here to speak on this item?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No one?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
That passes five to nothing.
Item #883
STAFF DIRECTED TO PURSUE PARKING ALTERNATIVES AND REPORT BACK IN 90
DAYS REGARDING PARKING PROHIBITIONS ON C.R. 29
Next item is 8(B)(3), parking prohibition on County Road
29.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: This is something that -- he was
waiting for the quick motion again because this is something that's
been lingering out there and we need to resolve. Mr. Archibald,
the
presentation we have in front of us here, is there anything here
that
makes you uncomfortable from a traffic safety standpoint?
MR. ARCHIBALD: I've outlined four options. The first
option of simply rescinding the no parking does create a safety
liability for the county recognizing that we've al -- already been
put
on notice. So options 2, 3, and 4 would be highly recommended over
option 1.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Matthews, do you
have a suggestion?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, my -- my preference is to
probably -- I don't like rescinding the no parking ban, and the
reason
for that is you wind up with a parking area on both sides of a
county
road that's on a curve. But we've got people here from the public,
and I'm sure they'd like to -- to speak on -- on this, and why
don't
we go ahead and do that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Mr. Dorrill?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir. I have four. Mr. Meredith,
you'll be first. Mr. Conway, if I could have you stand by, please,
sir. Morning.
MR. MEREDITH: Good morning. First I'd like to clarify
__
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Name, please.
MR. MEREDITH: -- my position --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Name, please, for the record.
MR. MEREDITH: Better?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No. Name, please.
MR. MEREDITH: My name. I'm sorry. My name is Sam
Meredith.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. MEREDITH: I domicile in Chokoloskee Island. That's
my official residence. My insurance company calls me a full timer
because we travel most of the time. We do have a place there,
spend
as much time as we can, and follow the climate around.
My position will probably surprise you. We are for the
parking. I know I've heard all kinds of backflow from everybody
that
we're against it, we're against it, we don't want anything done.
That's untrue. What we want is a very bad situation corrected.
Before when this all came up it was a proposed parking
lot be built across the street there, probably do away with part of
the swale which help keeps the island dry. We have a lot of high
water down there. Excuse me. Also would increase the traffic and
increase the problem. We do not have adequate problem -- I mean
parking now. We do not have adequate control of the speed limit.
I
noticed one of the motions to increase the speed limit to 35. It's
already 30, but it's not enforced any way whatsoever.
There are plenty of parking spaces or places on down the
road so the traffic can flow in and out of there. What has been
created is really almost a public nuisance. We're almost prisoners
of
the island. We can't get in and out when all the people are there.
My grass root thing that I want to tell you about is I'm
very involved in the Everglades Community Church. I'm vice
chairman
of the board of governors. I'm chairman of the board of trustees.
I
took on the job after I retired four times. I keep all their
records
in my computer. I know all the 377 members, their children, their
grandchildren, and everybody else. They won't hardly come down to
our
place anymore. They used to come visit. They're afraid they get
killed, a trailer backs out in front of them. They can't get
through. It's just absolutely unbelievable.
We have 283 sites in the park. The people are beginning
to come back now, about 10 a week. We have about 550 people in
there
in the wintertime. There's a little two-lane road, no no passing.
There's all kinds of access on both sides, and these boat trailers
are
just bottling us in.
The -- we have spoken to the national park who owns the
marina. Excuse me. They say due to lack of funding they can't
provide any other parking. Then if Collier County is either
unwilling
or unable to provide parking to make this a place that comes up to
your county standards -- you have plenty of rules to do this --
then
we propose you either fix it or close the marina in the park as a
public nuisance. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Conway. Then, Mr. Johnson, you'll
follow Mr. Conway.
MR. CONWAY: For the record, Hike Conway, pathways
advisory committee. This is the Collier County comprehensive
pathway
plan. I wrote it. You adopted it December 16, 1994. I'd like to
quote a small excerpt. A good physical environment for walking and
bicycling is where the -- the pedestrian or cyclist does not feel
threatened by automobiles, trucks and where vehicles do not impair
access to facilities and services. We all know we have that
problem
there.
Does the commission honestly feel enough thought and
planning has gone into this proposed project to include public
hearings? We must be responsible to all Collier County residents
and
visitors.
Now I'm going to wear my second hat. As a Chokoloskee
Island property owner and resident, I can't believe this issue is
even
being reconsidered after the overwhelming negative response on this
matter to the county commissioner chair and George Archibald's
office
last year. Even the executive summary states the transportation
staff
does not recommend changing quid quo pro (sic). If the status of
this
area has changed, you will make an existing problem compounded, and
it
will cause extreme difficulty for the property owners of
Chokoloskee
Island. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Johnson; then Mr. Goodlette.
MR. JOHNSON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm
Henry Johnson, and I represent the interests of Robert E. Ludford
and
Jo R. Ludford who are owners of units 12-A and 12-B at the Sunset
Cove
Condominium Association. It is their units which are nearly
adjacent
to one of the recommendations of increased proposed parking, and
it's
their units who overlook basically the gateway to Chokoloskee
Island.
Let me take a moment to suggest to you why increased
parking in the area which is suggested in your executive summary is
inappropriate and certainly why no parking signs in all of their
present form have to remain.
I had the opportunity on Sunday -- that would be
September 1 of this year -- to visit Chokoloskee Island. And one
of
the things that struck me is that you've got a very nice sign that
__
on the entryway to Chokoloskee Island. It says, "Welcome to
Chokolokee -- Chokoloskee Island." It should say probably,
"Welcome
to Chokoloskee Island, home of random parking and -- and -- and
disjointness," because it's -- it's under present -- under the
present
way in which things are configured there, you have a -- you have
basically a traffic bottleneck which has become even greater
bottleneck by the existence of cars that are permitted at this
juncture to remain in two no parking areas on both sides of the
street.
You also have a proposed parking area which I would
respectfully suggest if it were ever to even be considered seems to
interfere with the mean high water line of the -- of the -- of the
__
of the inflow of water from -- from the sea.
So certainly from a -- from a practical standpoint, it
doesn't seem to make much sense to continue to -- to do anything
other
than to enforce your -- your no parking regulation.
I observed personally what I would perceive to be a
health and -- very strong health and safety concern in two regards.
One, the pathways advisory board has already worked with the county
to
install a bike path which basically intersects this exact area of -
of where -- where the -- where the no parking ban I think should --
should continue and where the proposed new parking should take
place.
Number two, on any given time during the day, you can
see cars with -- with trailers attached to the back of them doing
complicated K- and U-turns around the entryway to Chokoloskee
Island.
So as cars are moving forward at their ordinary and necessary and
reasonable speed, you're finding cars backing out of -- of -- of
what
they perceive to be parking spaces which at this point in time bear
the sign no parking.
Number two, the land upon which the proposed parking
area is -- is suggested presently creates a swell for the Sunset
Cove
residents and the surrounding area during high tides and
hurricanes.
My clients have a legitimate concern that if a parking lot were to
go
in, there would be no place for the excess water to go and invite -
and, in fact, may just end up flooding -- flooding Sunset Cove.
I know that most of you have had the pleasure of
visiting Chokolokee -- Chokoloskee Island, but this is one of those
situations where I think certainly pictures do say a thousand
words.
And my time spent Sunday afternoon on Chokolokee -- Chokoloskee
Island
gave me an incredible feel for the fact that what you -- the answer
here is not more parking. The answer here is not destroy the no
parking signs but make sure that there is no parking and come up
with
an alternative reasonable solution to deal with the potential
parking
problem.
One other thing that struck me is you know that a mile
and a half or two miles down the road is the National -- National
Park
Service entryway to, I guess, the 10,000 Islands. And there's
apparently to me tremendous parking areas. At least there were
tremendous unused parking areas there on a Sunday. It would seem
very
logical that if, in fact, there is a parking problem on Chokolokee
Chokoloskee Island that perhaps before you take drastic actions
with
modifying any -- any 1991 resolution that you go the extra step,
caucus, analyze, meet with members of the Chokolo -- Chokoloskee
Island community and also with the National Park Service to see if
there's some other reasonable alternative. There's plenty of land.
There's plenty of parking, and there seems to be an appropriate --
an
appropriate alternative.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you very much, sir.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Goodlette's your final speaker, Mr.
Chairman.
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dudley
Goodlette with the law firm of Goodlette, Coleman, and Johnson. We
represent the Outdoor Resorts of Chokoloskee and basically wanted
to
come today to tell -- to encourage you to lift the no parking signs
that are there now.
We -- our client, Mr. Kenny Brown, is present in the
room. He wants to be a part of the -- very much a part of the
solution to this problem. And it's -- just -- just to put this in
historical perspective, this marina has been operating there since
1957. Mr. Johnson's clients probably bought their unit sometime in
the eighties perhaps, but so this is a -- this is a problem that --
that exists. It exists, and it -- and it exists with -- the no
parking signs there now has interfered significantly with commerce
in
-- in Everglades and Chokoloskee Island. And people are not coming
down there to use the boat ramp as they have historically because
they're getting tickets from the sheriff's department, and -- and
it's
-- and it is indeed a problem.
The solution as we see it -- and -- and -- and -- and
Mr. Olliff can tell you that he has talked with the people at the
National Park Service. We've tried to get a ramp -- get I think
the
National Park Service to consider building a ramp near -- inside
the
park, if you will. They have refused to do that, as I understand
it.
So part of the solution that Mr. Johnson just alluded
to, you know, thanks but no thanks has been the reaction from the
National Park Service. So we need their cooperation in order to --
for some of these solutions.
But in the near term, in -- in -- in your back-up
materials at page 3, you will see a diagram that Mr. Olliff or
someone
in his office has prepared. And I'd like to just suggest to you
that
what -- what Mr. Brown would be amenable to doing would be to -- to
__
if -- if the no parking were eliminated on those 20 spaces that are
shown on the west side of 29, if it's possible -- and we can
explore
the possibility of putting that parking -- moving it over onto the
east side of 29 so that when people access the boat ramp they don't
have to cross over 29. And if that could be improved, our client
would be amenable to paying all or substantially all of the
expenses
associated with improving that as long as he has some perpetual
right
to use it or could acquire it indeed in order to facilitate the --
the
-- the -- the -- the safety that we -- we all urge does need to be
attended to in that area. So there are solutions to this problem.
Mr. -- Mr. Brown and Outdoor Resorts in Chokoloskee want
to be a part of the solutions to those. They're willing to -- to -
to assist in paying for some of those improvements but -- and the
only
thing that they would ask in return is that they have the perpetual
right to use that for their -- for their customers and the people
who
use the boat ramp and the marina. And I'll be happy to answer any
specific questions.
There are -- there are people who live down in the -- in
the resort area who favor eliminating the no parking down there as
as -- as you've heard. And -- and we can answer any other
questions.
But I wanted to just be on record as to what -- what Mr. Brown is
proposing to do.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a question. What's the
feasibility -- to where would the 20 spaces be relocated? Is there
someplace to do that?
MR. GOODLETTE: If you looked I think just north of the
existing parking on the east side, Commissioner Mac'Kie, in other
words, you see where it says mangrove line way out there? We think
that there's space in there. It would -- it would -- it would
require
perhaps relocating the bath -- the bike path a little bit to the
west. But we think that can be accommodated if that -- if that
alternative is explored.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Rather than running the gamut of
options today, I'm probably one of the few people in this room that
was born and raised in this state. And the idea of, you know,
taking
a johnboat out on Saturday and dumping it in the water off the side
of
the road and going out fishing that evening with -- with your
father
or with your uncle is something that's as part of Florida as
anything
I can think of. People have been parking along this roadway since
the
roadway was built and putting in here. What we have, though, is an
unsafe condition. There's no question about it.
So, Mr. Dotrill, roughly, if we go put a boat ramp in
somewhere, what does a boat ramp cost us these days?
MR. DORRILL: Quarter of a million to three hundred
thousand dollars.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We have a $300,000 asset sitting
there with 19 spaces to serve it. Figure that out per space. It's
not very economical use. We have a demand there that is going to
continue. If the no parking signs stay up, some people will take
the
risk, will continue parking in the right-of-way, may get ticketed,
may
not, and an unsafe condition continues.
Looking at the demand, I don't think there's any way to
avoid trying to find a solution that increases parking. But we've
gotta do it in a safe manner in a way that is most compatible with
the
adjacent community. Buffering can be imp -- can be utilized.
Hedges,
ficus, whatever, can be put in to screen visually.
I would like to -- my -- my personal feeling is
something akin to number 3 in the recommendation, not to rescind
just
yet because we don't have a safe parking plan in place but to
direct
staff to provide options to work with all the parties involved to
give
us some physical options on the land and some associated costs with
those. And at that time if we find one that does answer most of
the
concerns, we can then look at rescinding the ordinance and moving
ahead.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And as part of that to take
up Mr. Brown's offer to assist in financial portion?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think that's part of the
solution. We have to look at one option, yes.
MR. GOODLETTE: In that regard, if I may, I didn't
mention but I should have that if -- if the county could -- would
deed
that property to Mr. Brown, the liability associated with it he
would
-- he would assume if that's -- if that's a concern. I know it was
mentioned earlier by Mr. Archibald that there were some liability
concerns that the county has, and Mr. Weigel can speak to those.
If
our client owned that property, he would assume the liability
inherent
in -- in -- in some of those problems as well.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I appreciate that. But that
again would be all a part of the options that our staff would
present
to us to find safe ingress and egress to increase the usability of
this boat ramp.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock, what --
what I would like the board to consider doing is -- is not so much
option 3 today but to consider option 4 keeping in mind that option
4
is to maintain the parking prohibition until such time as we find
solutions. I -- I would like to give staff direction today to
actively seek solutions to this. There -- there is plenty of land
further to the north even beyond this bend in 29. There's plenty
of
vacant land where if we were to put in another boat ramp -- and Mr.
Olliff will tell you right now we have a shortage in boat ramps in
our
Growth Management Plan and we need more boat ramps -- that this
would
be an opportune time for the county to do exactly that and to find
additional space for another boat ramp and additional parking to --
to
go along with it in this area.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I just don't think $300,000 being
spent a stone's throw from an existing boat ramp is something that
Mr.
Olliff would recommend.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hancock, if
you'll put your thoughts into a motion, I'll be happy to second it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: What -- part of what you've said
I agree with. One is not to -- not to rescind the parking
resolution,
91-19, to leave it in place and direct staff to bring back
alternatives that will allow for the safe ingress and egress of the
boating public to access this ramp more appropriately.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well -- okay. But -- I understand
what you're trying to do, but wouldn't it make more sense to -- to
take option 3 and -- and to give the staff time to -- to look at
alternatives but to move forward with option 37
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: My only concern there is if we
rescind the parking ban in there, we haven't provided a safe
alternative yet.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And I know as much as people want
to see this thing go away and others that don't, I think we have to
have a safe alternative or something that we can recommend and fund
before rescinding that parking resolution.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just to make sure I
understand, your suggestion is that we get to that point, but we
just
make sure we're safe before we rescind it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's exactly correct.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Which is what option 4 is to
me. I would prefer to see option -- option 4.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do you want to put a timeline
on it?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah, yeah, very much. I'd like
to see staff come back to us within -- within 90 days with some
real
options as to what's available but in the meantime maintain option
4
and keep the parking prohibition in line and let's -- let's get
this
thing resolved. This has been going -- been going on now for at
least
three years.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Archibald, any chance you
could do that quicker than 90 days, 45 days?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Ninety days is a good time frame because
we not only have some access questions, but we also have
environmental
permitting issues.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And you've got a lot of folks who
are interested in this that need to be a part of the solution. My
motion does not cite number 4 because it says increased additional
facilities in Everglades City and Everglades National Park, in
other
words, increased $300,000. So that's why I'm not going with option
4. I think this ramp can be utilized better and safer and in a
compatible manner, and that is why I'm giving staff -- my motion is
to
give direction in that regard.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If you'll --
COMHISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, modify option 4 then and
say that we're not going to rescind the prohibition but to give
staff
direction to actively search for a solution to this problem by
working
with the people who live on Chokoloskee Island, Outdoor Resorts,
the
whole group of people, and let's get a solution to it.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: I think you have just restated my
motion.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And that's all within 90
days.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It will get back to us within
90 days.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Agreed. Ninety days. That's the
motion.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I guess you got a motion and a
second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Do you have a second?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't hear
that. We do have a motion and a second. I would prefer to go
forward
with number 3 and give some time to look at the options before
actually implementing number 3, but looks like that's not gonna
happen. So all those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
So thank you, Mr. Archibald.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: So we --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We're going to get there.
Item #8B4
TERMINATE, FOR CONVENIENCE, CONTRACT NO. 26-2517 FOR PHASE II
UTILITIES
IMPROVEMENTS, RIVIERA COLONY SUBDIVISION, NEGOTIATE A CONTRACT WITH
ANOTHER CONTRACTOR AND APPROVE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT -
STAFF
RECOMHENDATION APPROVED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Our next item is an add-on, 8(B)(4),
termination of the Riviera utilities contract.
MR. GONZALEZ: Good morning, commissioners. Adolfo
Gonzalez with your office of capital projects management. I'd like
to
give you a brief update on three items today. One is the contract
status, one on the neighborhood status, and the last one on the
project status.
On July 29, Diamond Construction started a contract for
Riviera Colony phase 2 which was the water and sewer work portion
of
our contract. Couple of days into the project we felt that -- we
communicated to the contractor that the material they were using
for
backfill was not suitable. Unfortunately, we were not able to
reach
an amicable agreement with them as to the suitability of the
material
or reconcile our differences. Four days after they had started
construction we asked them to stop work out there, and we issued
them
a cease and desist order.
The neighborhood issue, just last weekend we cleaned up
the site somewhat. There are four or five driveways that are
impacted
by the construction that had already started, and we established
two-way traffic around Riviera Boulevard right in front of the
trench
that's there right now. That should be -- it's not as convenient
as
having the full two-way movement of cars that they had previously,
but
at least they can get around the work site until we can get that
project under construction then.
We have since spoken to the two other bidders that bid
on that project, the second and third lowest responsive bidders,
neither of which is interested in doing -- continuing the project
at
this time for -- for different reasons.
What I'd like to recommend to you is to rebid the
project immediately for a couple of reasons: One is we need to now
share with the contracting community again what we found out there
that we were unable to reach agreement with the first contractor
and
let them incorporate that into their bid so that they will give us
a
bid that hopefully we can act on. And we need a little bit of time
to
do that efficiently without trying to shortcut the process and --
and
hopefully get another set of bids that don't meet our
specifications.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Mr. Gonzalez, that neighborhood
is -- even though we've taken some measures to get some traffic
moving, it's still a major disruption to the -- to the residents.
They've got these big pieces of equipment and pipes and everything
sitting out in their front yards. So how long are you anticipating
before we could get this project done?
MR. GONZALEZ: If we go through the conventional bidding
process again -- and we can accelerate -- I've spoken to Steve
Camell, your purchasing director, who is willing to help us and
accelerate this process -- we're still about 60 days out before we
can
get another contractor out there to do that. We have taken some
temporary measures. If you have driven by the site, you'll notice
a
lot of signage to redirect truck traffic away from the -- the
excavated area. We've put some temporary markings to redirect cars
around the excavated area and provide two-way traffic. If we were
to
rebid it, we may have to do even some further cleaning up of the
site
to allow access to a couple of the driveways that luckily the
residents are not there right now, but we anticipate that they're
going to come back in the next few weeks. At least that's --
that's
the information they have given us.
So we still need to do a little more cleaning up of the
site if we -- if it looks like we're not going to have any activity
for the next two months out there.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Are you -- are you saying that if we
go under emer -- emergency bid procedures that it's still 60 days
out?
MR. GONZALEZ: No. We could accelerate that process.
I'm -- I would be cautious in doing that because we want now the
contractors, whoever's going to bid on this project, to have the
benefit of the information that is out there and put together an
intelligent bid on it. If we accelerate it and don't give the
contractors enough time to look at the conditions now that have
been
exposed, we may get an artificial bid. We may not get a -- a -- an
accurate set of bids. We may not even have really a list of
bidders
that could intelligently tell us what they think it's going to cost
to
do it according to your specifications.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Sounds like for the residents
there there's not a real good option.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No. Any speakers, Mr. Dorrill?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve staff
recommendation.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Motion -- Commissioner
Constantine, would you include in that motion to take whatever
steps
are necessary to --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Expedite?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- normalize the area until it
can be rebid and work be completed to the best -- to the greatest
extent possible?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I will.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: And to expedite the bid process
for the -- for the new procedure?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, that was a part of staff --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's to expe -- expedite the bid.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's part of staff
recommendation.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Second amends.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion and a second. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #BE1
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COUNTY, THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER
AND
WASTEWATER AUTHORITY AND SOUTHERN STATES UTILITIES REGARDING THE
PAYMENT OF REGULATORY FEES AND GENERAL COMPLIANCE WITH ORDINANCE
NO.
96-6 - STAFF RECOHMENDATION APPROVED
Okay. Next item is 8(E)(1), settlement with SSU.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Is someone bringing a check?
MR. PALHER: Good morning, commissioners. For the
record, Tom Palmet, assistant county attorney. Staff has proposed
to
you this morning as an add-on item a proposed settlement agreement
between the county, the utility regulatory authority, and this
board
that settles eight issues that have been undergoing negotiations
now
for about the past eight weeks. And we've had a breakthrough last
week to the considerable talents of Commissioner Norris and Mr. Ed
Day
who have done a remarkable job in negotiating an agreement.
This agreement settles eight issues that have been
pending, matters of dispute between Southern States Utilities and
the
county. And if you'd like, I could go through the eight of them.
The -- there's a time-sensitive matter because there's a
matter pending before the First District Court of Appeals in
Tallahassee that the county is required to respond to this
afternoon.
If this agreement is approved by the board this morning, that will
moot that point. Southern States Utilities will withdraw their
motion. The county will not have to respond. That is one of the
issues.
The county would also withdraw its pending motion for
declaratory statement before the Public Service Commission. The
county is asking now the question clarified as to whether the
Public
Service Commission will ever in the future claim against SSU any
regulatory fees they are now agreeing in this agreement to pay to
the
county.
They will also agree that materials that have previously
been submitted will constitute an application for two grandfather
certificates. That material was submitted previously for
informational purposes only.
The county will also waive the fees that were imposed by
the utility regulatory authority last week. The utility regulatory
authority met this morning in emergency meeting, approved this
agreement which is expected to arrive today by Federal Express.
This
agreement was arrived at over the telephone last Friday between
staff
subject to your approval this morning.
And Southern States Utilities is concerned that if
Southern -- if they pay the county, itws possible that the Public
Service Commission will thereafter claim against Southern States
that
those fees should have been paid to the Public Service Commission
all
along. Staff feels that that is a remote possibility. But to come
to
this agreement, the county is agreeing that in the event that that
happens and if Southern States Utilities is made a party to that
proceeding that the county will hold them harmless. As wewve said
before, we do not expect that contingency to happen. The county
also
agrees that --
COMMISSIONER MAC~KIE: I~m sorry. If that happens the
county holds SSU harmless?
MR. PALMER: Yes, maTam. The county will step in and
defend the assertion by the Public Service Commission that those --
the fees that have been paid to the county should have been paid to
Southern States Utilities.
COMMISSIONER MACwKIE: And the amount of those fees and
the potential cost there? I mean, we would -- if we lost that
would
pay the fee back, and then wewd also have some litigation --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Excuse me, Mr. Palmet. I think you
misspoke. You said that the fees would be paid to SSU. What you
meant was the PSC.
MR. PALMER: Yes, the fees would be paid by SSU to the
Public Service Commission. Therels the possibility that belatedly
the
Public Service Commission could make a claim that those fees should
have been paid to the Public Service Commission rather than Collier
County. And Collier County has agreed to step in and defend
against
that assertion by the Public Service Commission. We feel that is
extremely remote because Hernando County has -- is in the position
similar to Collier County. It has been for two and a half years,
since April of 1994. And the Public Service Commission has not
claimed any fees against Hernando County.
COMMISSIONER MACwKIE: Similar amount of money?
MR. PALMER: Iwm not sure -- itws considerable, hundreds
of thousands of dollars, but Iwm not sure itws the same amount.
These
fees are based on the percentage of the revenues collected by
Southern
States in the respective county. We really feel that that
contingency
is remote. And if that kind of a claim is made, it would not
necessarily result in litigation. It may result in negotiations
between the county and the Public Service Commission.
The county has also agreed that they will not attempt to
reduce rates as approved by the Public Service Commission. We feel
that this provision is nothing more than a present statement of the
law, that those fees will be binding on the county in any case.
This
provision, however, does not preclude the county from bringing what
is
called an overearnings action; that is, that they should exceed the
rates that are approved by the Public Service Commission. Those
are
extremely rare. This contract does not preclude possibility of an
over -- of overearnings actions.
Southern States will pay these fees to the county within
30 days of today if this agreement is approved today, and staff is
__
favorably recommends that the board approve this agreement.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Public speakers?
MR. DORRILL: Ms. English? No, then that's the next
one. There are none on this one.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That -- that's one of my
concerns, Mr. Chairman. If -- who in the public from Marco -- is
this
something that the people on Marco Island are going to be cheering?
Is -- I just -- we --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- hear so much from them about
this issue that it frightens me a little bit. Okay. Fay's
smiling.
That's a good sign. And -- but the reason for doing this today as
a~
add-on is so that we don't have to respond to some -- to a hearing
today?
MR. PALMER: Yes, ma'am. The -- Southern States
Utilities filed an emergency motion last week with the First
District
Court of Appeals asking that a stay be lifted. When the county
appealed the general matter about jurisdiction over SSU, an
automatic
stay goes into place. The order of the Public Service Commission
is
not effective. Therefore, the Public Service Commission did not by
its own order assume regulatory jurisdiction over SSU.
Last week SSU went to the First District Court of
Appeals and is asking that that stay be lifted so that immediately
the
Public Service Commission resumed jurisdiction over SSU. We do not
feel it's an emergency, but the Court compelled the county to
respond
by five o'clock today. SSU is waiting for a phone call. If this
agreement is approved by the board, they will immediately withdraw
their motion for the stay and the county will withdraw its motion
for
declaratory statement with the Public Service Commission. Those
two
matters of litigation will become moot.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I make a motion to approve
the item and particularly with kudos to Captain Day and
Commissioner
Norris. Great job.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
That passes.
Item #9A
PROPPOSED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT REGARDING THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
MATTER AND FEDERAL LITIGATION INVOLVING COLLIER COUNTY, PACIFIC
LAND
CO./VINE RIPE FARMS, INC., AND THE INDEPENDENT TRADITIONAL SEMINOLE
NATION - APPROVED
We'll take one more item, and then we'll take a short
break. The next item is 9(A), settlement between code enforcement
and
Collier County Pacific Land Company and the Independent Traditional
Seminole Nation of Florida.
MR. MANALICH: Good morning, commissioners. For the
record, Ramiro Manalich, chief assistant county attorney, along
with
Shirley Jean McEachern, assistant county attorney. I would also
note
that here today on this item is Mr. Danny Billie who is the
representative for the Independent Traditional Seminole Nation as
well
as their counsel, Laura Belflower. And also present is Katherine
English, attorney on behalf of both Pacific Land Company and Vine
Ripe
Farms Inc.
As the executive summary outlines for you, basically
this is a matter that has had a lengthy process you're all well
aware
of and extensive negotiations, the culmination of which was a
meeting
between Chairman Norris and Mr. Danny Billie. And the result of
that
is the proposed settlement agreement that is here before you.
Basically the whereas clauses of that agreement
recognize that there are still outstanding differences in viewpoint
on
some of the legal issues that were involved in this case both in
the
Code Enforcement Board and the federal court setting. Regardless,
the
parties have arrived at this proposed agreement that although not
totally resolving all of those questions will enable both to go
forward.
Basically what would be involved would be a conditional
use application that the county would make. And if that were
approved, then there would also be joint inspections for electrical
and plumbing safety concerns. If both of those items were met,
then
there would be dismissal by both sides of both cases.
I would note that the agreement does outline for you
that this particular agreement has no precedential value with
regard
to any other proceedings or any other persons in the county. It's
limited to this specific parcel, these unique circumstances.
Essentially that's what is proposed. I'm here to
obviously answer any questions you may have or the parties'
representatives.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I got a quick question. We
aren't presupposing we're gonna approve a conditional use, are we?
MR. HANALICH: No. Obviously it has to go through the
process and, you know, you'd have --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I just want to make sure we're
not --
MR. HANALICH: Right. And the agreement does mention
that if, in fact, you do not approve the conditional use, in that
event this agreement would be null and void, and we'd be back to
where
we were.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's a conditional use for the
cultural area? Is that what we're talking about?
MR. HANALICH: For a cultural facility.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I think it's important to note that
we're not creating a special -- special situation. This is -- a
cultural facility is outlined in our Land Development Code as an
existing conditional use. And we're not creating something special
to
solve this problem.
The other -- the other thing from my perspective that --
that was very important to make sure that we -- we accomplished was
the ability to make the inspections so that the county can feel
secure
in the knowledge that we have fulfilled our responsibility to
protect
the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens. With the -- those
two major items, I think that that's what brought the -- the
agreement
to the point where we are now.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: This to me sounds like the
makings of -- of an offering that began last fall sometime, and I'm
I'm really pleased, Commissioner Hac'Kie, that you brought up the
idea
that we try to do this and, Commissioner Norris, that you were able
to
work with the Indian family and to bring it together. I think it's
a
great job. We're -- we've solved a very difficult problem. Thank
you
very much.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have one question. In
paragraph 2 it refers to future residential chickees and structures
that can be built or moved to the property. What I don't see is a
tie-in of those future structures subject -- subject to the same
safety inspections that existing structures are subject to. I need
to
make sure that all future structures either built on or moved to
the
property are subject to the same safety inspection, and I don't see
that specifically outlined. The safety inspection in number 5
refers
to existing, not future.
MR. HANALICH: I believe you're correct on that,
Commissioner.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. I -- I think the agreement
is -- is -- is what we've been asking for, but I would like to see
a~
inclusion that under paragraph 2 where it refers to any future
residential chickees and structures constructed or to be moved to
the
subject land which are similar ad infinitum from there that that
make
a reference to paragraph 5 and that they be subject to the same
safety
inspections the existing structures are subject to under this
agreement.
MR. MANALICH: I think it may be possibly appropriate at
this point to hear from the representatives of the other parties on
that.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Otherwise it would put
ourselves in the same position we were in eight months ago when a
structure goes in.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. English and Welflower (sic) are your
only registered speakers.
MS. BELFLOWER: Good morning. My name is Laura
Belflower from the law firm of Holland and Knight, and I am
representing the Traditional Seminoles in this matter.
First of all, I would like to thank your staff very much
for their efforts in -- in resolving this matter. I think it is a
good resolution.
As it regards the suggested change, the only concern is
that basically this was an agreement that -- that once we went
through
these -- these two processes of the conditional use and the
inspections, then it would be done. I think that we can agree that
the intent is that any structure that is built, any chickee that is
built or moved to the site, would be -- any electrical or plumbing
changes or -- or additions that are added to those structures would
be
built in a manner consistent with what was found to be safe or
something like that rather than requiring an additional safety
instruction, that we would just make the commitment that the safety
concerns or -- or lack of concerns will be determined at the time
that
the inspection is made. The residents will know what the county's
concerns and intent are, and I believe we could commit to any new
structure would be built in a manner consistent with those safety
instructions in terms of the electrical and the plumbing.
MR. MANALICH: The present provision, commissioners, is
as follows: This waiver extends to any future residential chickees
and structures constructed or moved to the subject land which are
similar in appearance and construction to the residential chickees
and
structures presently existing on the subject land including plywood
walls and windows and which form a part of the present usual and
customary use of the land by the Traditional Seminoles.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah. I just need to be
comfortable in the fact that two years from now something may
happen
out there that causes us to go out. We find a new structure has
been
built, and let's say it's not even up to the -- what is existing
out
there. Under what's presented before us, I don't see available
recourse to require that to come up to at least the -- the minimum
standard that we're asking be met for the existing structures. And
__
and that's a concern for me because then we are getting away from
the
responsibility of safety and welfare that this board carries on --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I '-
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- future structures.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I say I think that how that's
addressed is in the language that Mr. Manalich just read. It
requires
that they be the same. Any new structures moved on are going to be
the same. And if they aren't the same, then we have a violation of
the agreement and can proceed.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Let me ask that question
directly then, Mr. Manalich. In the -- in the instance that there
was
a new structure, an additional structure, placed out there and the
__
and subsequently found that they didn't meet the requirements of
the
inspection, would we -- would we be precluded from filing a new
code
enforcement action by this agreement today?
MR. MANALICH: No, I don't believe so.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Well, that answers the
question.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Would we be in any way increasing
our liability by not requiring that initial inspection of new
structures that would be consistent with this?
MR. MANALICH: Well, the only thing I can say is, I
mean, that is a potential. But since the language says they're
similar in appearance and construction, they're going to be bound
to
build any new similar type structure in a manner the way it has
been
approved as of this date.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So do I have agreement from both
counsels that this agreement makes it incumbent upon the land
occupants to create them in a manner consistent with what exists
today? Therefore, if it is not done, the liability rests more with
them than with the county.
MS. BELFLOWER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. HANALICH: I mean, I think you have a very valid
concern. And, frankly, I'm not sure we had thought of all those
permutations, but I think that with the language here and with the
representations of counsel, rather than imposing on them further
inspections, I think that there's the understanding between the
parties that this provision requires that they build any similar
type
structures in a manner as has been inspected and approved.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: That answered my question.
Responsibility rests with them and not with the county on -- on new
structures, so that answers my question.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Let's continue with the public
speakers.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. English and then Mr. Perkins.
MS. ENGLISH: Good morning. My name is Katherine
English. I'm with the law firm of Pavese, Garner. And I represent
Pacific Land Company and Vine Ripe Farms. And to answer your
question
right off, I'm Ed English's niece.
I'm here this morning to speak in support of this
proposed settlement. Speaking for my clients, we see this as a win
for the county, a win for the Independent Traditional Seminoles,
and a
win for both the landowner which is currently Vine Ripe Farms Inc.
and
the predecessor in title, Pacific Land Company. And given the
support
that I've heard from the commission this morning, I'll just
terminate
my remarks there. But thank you for your consideration of this
agreement.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Perkins?
MR. PERKINS: Good morning, commissioners. A1 Perkins,
Belle Meade Groups, Citizens for Constitutional Property Rights.
Needless to say, today is the day for the Constitution,
a big day for the Constitution. The position that we're gonna take
is
in behalf of the Seminole Nation for the simple reason the
preservation of the heritage of this country is so important and so
important to this county that we need not overlook it nor be
stifled
by it. It's up to you people to take and preserve this on their
behalf and on the behalf of all the children and citizens of this
county. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: That will be it, Mr. Chairman.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, after nearly a
year of bureaucracy and nonsense, I want to compliment you and Mr.
Billie for sitting down and putting the -- the final details on
this
and making something work and certainly everyone else who's put the
effort into it, and I'll go ahead and make a motion we approve the
proposed settlement.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
That does it. We'll take a very short break and come
right back and finish up.
(A short break was held.)
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 96-399 APPOINTING FRED THOMAS, JR.; TIM NEVAREZ; CAROL
LOSA
DELARA; AND GARY HARRISON TO THE IMHOKALEE ENTERPRISE ZONE
DEVELOPMENT
AGENCY - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Ladies and gentlemen, we'll reconvene
the county commission meeting. Mr. Brundage, when you finish with
your meeting, we'll like to start ours again, please.
Okay. Next item is 10(A), appointment of members to the
Immokalee Enterprise Zone Development Agency.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, just a note.
Two of the names on here are actually from the Fort Myers area.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Got that covered.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We already got that covered.
What -- if --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I must have missed the memo.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No, we just investigated it.
The requirement is that the members live within the nominated area,
residents, or nonprofit community based organizations operating
within
the nominated area, local private industry council, local code
enforcement agency, or local law enforcement agency. The two
people
in question, number 1 is president of the Immokalee Chamber of
Commerce, so that one meets the community based organization
nonprofit. And the other one, Tim Nevarez --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Private industry council.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- is the jobs council, jobs
services, and that's the private industry council.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I just remember we had the
question before. And Mr. Erlichman isn't here today and thought I
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah, the ordinance here reads
differently than all of our other advisory boards.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Than -- than our ordinary. So
with that I'd like to make a motion that we appoint and reappoint
the
four people -- Fred N. Thomas, Tim Nevarez, Cara -- Carol Losa
deLara,
and Gary Harrison -- to the Immokalee Enterprise Zone Development
Agency.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion and a second. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #10B
DIRECTION RE TDC CATEGORY "C" FUNDS - TDC DIRECTED TO CHECK LIST OF
MANDATORY AND DISCRETIONARY AREAS FOR TDC FUNDING; TO CORRECT
HAKEUP
FOR STATE STATUTE FOR ATTRITION; APPLICATION TIMING; AND
ACCOUNTABILITY
REPORT AFTER THE EVENT
Next item, 10(B), Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes. The -- there was a change
in the state legislation regarding TDC category C funds this past
session. Because of that change and because of the difference of
opinion that has occurred between this board and TDC
recommendations
in the past, I would like to ask the board to give direction to the
TDC in a four-part approach.
The first is to create a checklist of mandatory and
discretionary areas for TDC category C funding. Specifically that
means these are the things it has to meet to qualify for category C
and these are the elements that are discretionary. I don't think
we
have a real firm grip on that, and we've seen applications come in
in
different time frames and time zones, so that's a first.
The second is to correct the makeup of the TDC per state
statute through attrition. Our TDC makeup right now may not meet
that
in the state statute. And through attrition or resignations, that
__
I think that needs to be modified.
The third is a recommendation regarding application
timing. Should applications continue to be submitted throughout
the
year, once a year, twice a year? What would work best for both
applicant and the TDC?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We just changed that to
throughout the year I thought.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, and -- we did, and what I'm
hearing is that it's difficult to keep track of what do we have to
spend and -- and prioritize projects when they can come in at any
open
door but again --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So you're saying review that.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah, asking for a recommendation
from the TDC on that.
And the fourth is a recommendation regarding an
accountability report after the event. This is something that
we've
asked for and not received on at least two events. And that is to
come back to the TDC and say, this is how the money was spent, and
this is how you're -- you know, this is our share versus TD share
and
this is where it went. And that accountability report needs to be
provided. There may need to be a cap on that. An event that
requests
$5,000 and has a $20,000 budget, you know, hiring someone to do
that
may be too expensive. But the larger items, again, I'm asking for
a
recommendation on that because we need to have these post-event
reports come back to the TDC so there's some level of
accountability.
Those are the four elements of what I would ask this
board to direct the TDC to look at and make recommendations on.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Make a motion.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And my motion will -- will
include just that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second that motion.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I like that idea. Perhaps --
and I know these are really -- really general, but I would like to
encourage, as you said -- the smaller events may be too costly to
do
that and put it together in a tiered facet of --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- of value.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. And I'll just modify it to
say that number 4 of that recommendation may include a tiered
approach
based on the amount of funds given to the event.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My understanding on all of
these is you're just looking for recommendations from the TDC on
how
to address these four specific areas.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: From the TDC or the staff?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Both.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: From TDC.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: From the TDC to us.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I would like the TDC to workshop
these items, provide recommendations to this board, and then we'll
make decisions on whether or not there are necessary ordinance
changes.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Motion and a second. All those
in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Not any.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you.
Item #11A
"COPS MORE" '96 GRANT APPLICATION - APPROVED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: ll(A), the sheriff's department has a
request for us to accept a cops grant.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My understanding is what they
want to do with this is we gave them a certain amount of money to
buy
20 new laptops anyway. They just want to use the money that's
already
been allocated to leverage a grant so they'd be able to buy about
60
laptops instead. So I'd say it's a pretty cut and dried idea.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's kind of a -- kind of a
good idea.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Would that mean that Clinton's
plan now has 60 new officers? Is he counting laptops or --
PUBLIC COHMENT - AL PERKINS REGARDING PUBLIC INPUT AND THE RIGHT OF
PEOPLE TO VOTE
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Public comment, Mr. HcNees?
MR. HCNEES: Yes. You have one registered speaker. A1
Perkins.
MR. PERKINS: Good morning again, commissioners. A1
Perkins, Belle Heade Groups, Citizens for Constitutional Property
Rights.
I'm going to be talking about the Constitution until you
people get so sick and tired of hearing me, and maybe some of the
peep
-- the apathetic people sitting at home will get up out of their
chair and go to the polls and vote today.
Topic this morning is your TV coverage. The expansion
of the TV coverage needs to be done. I notice that we now have a
personnel on board that is running the cameras. We also need the
monitors put in place in this room so -- and we need the camera in
the
center of the room up here so that we could have seen Gale Brett's
presentation about the confiscation of the southern Golden Gate
Estates and you could have heard all the lies too.
This needs to be put in place but not just for the
commission meetings. There's a lot of other meetings. Last
Friday,
the Big Cypress Basin Board met here. Two of our commissioners
were
here, and I think one of our commissioners had her eyes opened big
time to the extortion that this state is doing to this community.
With that, I want to take and tell you people at home
let's get the message out. Let's take and use the sunshine law so
everybody in this community can know what's going on. And that
also
means in the courts. Let's make it general public to everybody
about
everything.
The people don't know what it cost them because they
upped the millage last week. They upped the millage, and then this
morning with Southern States Utilities with this nonsense going on,
nobody attends the meetings to realize that the Southern States
Utilities approached the Big Cypress Basin Board for grant monies.
Now, when you lay out dollar bills, you can't tell one from the
other. So let's take and make this public to everybody.
The repeat of the commission meetings need to be
advertised. Let's make this public. For the last four years I've
been doing my best to put your feet to the fire so that everybody
has
input to take and make this a better community for everybody to
live
in. And I think between TAG and the rest of the organizations that
participate here we've done a fairly decent job of that. We saw
Some
of that this morning with the Indians.
With that, I have a complaint. Change of subject.
Approximately two weeks ago I came into this room -- into this
building, and I put up decals on every window on the doors of this
building.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Is that a vandalism charge?
MR. PERKINS: This was nothing more than a statement for
you people to register and vote. Most of them had all been taken
down. I see there's just one left up here.
If you've checked with Mary Morgan, you know I've
instigated trying to get the registration forms throughout this
county. We have it in the fire department, the police department,
at
the schools. We have it at the community centers. We have it in
every place that is a public -- in the libraries.
Your right and obligation of the 12th Amendment of the
Constitution requires that you have the privilege and right to
vote,
and it's also your obligation to vote to voice your opinion about
how
you want your country ran. Get off your duffs, people, and do it.
Thank you.
Item #12B1
ORDINANCE 96-49 RE PETITION PUD-90-19(1), BLAIR A. FOLEY OF COASTAL
ENGINEERING CONSULTANTS, INC., REPRESENTING CLEVELAND MEDICAL
CLINIC
FOUNDATION, REQUESTING AN AMENDMENT TO THE ASTRON PLAZA PUD FOR THE
PURPOSE OF INCREASING THE HEIGHT OF BUILDING FROM 35 FEET TO 42
FEET -
ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Our next item is item 12(B)(1),
petition PUD 90-19, sub 1.
MR. NINO: For the record, my name is Ron Nino with your
planning services section. This petition asks you to increase the
the allowable height of buildings in the Astron PUD --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Neil?
MR. NINO: -- from 30 -- 35 feet to 42 feet. The Astron
Plaza PUD is situated on the southeast corner quadrant of 1-75 and
Pine Ridge Road. Opposite the development is a commercial tract in
the Vineyards PUD. And, of course, the west is bound by -- by the
freeway. The two more sensitive relationships are to the east and
to
the south, both of which are zoned E estates.
The -- the setbacks that this project is required to
adhere to as a result of its original approval which remains in
effect
with -- with the current PUD -- nothing is being changed other than
the matter of height as the executive summary iljustrates -- would
basically have the nearest buildings 185 feet and 160 feet away.
In
the opinion of staff, you know, we think the addition of seven feet
of
vertical height is not discernible at those building separations.
There is no matter of consistency with the GMP related to this type
of
amendment. The PUD was determined consistent at its time of
approval,
still remains consistent.
The petition was heard by the planning commission. They
unanimously recommended approval. We've received no letters or
communications in opposition to this petition.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Nino?
MR. NINO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Has any increased buffering or
mitigation for the increased height been offered by the subject
property?
MR. NINO: No, it hasn't. However, the original
petition -- I mean the current PUD does provide for a larger buffer
particularly on the south side along 10th Street. It requires a
30-foot landscaped buffer exclusive of the use -- of the ability to
use that for any water management function. So we have a buffer
there
that's three times the size that would normally be required.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have a question for Mr. Foley.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Foley, we've seen with recent
parcels an attitude of removing every tree in sight. Do you have
any
idea on site clearing what the focus on retention of -- of, you
know,
existing vegetation because if I'm not -- if I'm correct, there's a
lot of pine trees on that site.
MR. FOLEY: Yeah, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Any idea what the approach is on
that?
MR. FOLEY: Preliminary indications on their landscape
plan is on the south buffer they need to try to retain most of
those.
They've had several meetings with adjacent property owners, and
they
wanted to see that remain.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. FOLEY: So they're going to try to incorporate a lot
of those larger specimen trees in their landscape plan.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So is it safe to say we have a
commitment from the -- from you to the greatest extent possible the
pine trees in the 30-foot buffer on the north -- south side will be
retained?
MR. FOLEY: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No more questions.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No more questions. We'll close the
public hearing.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I have a couple questions. I'm
sorry.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Oh, sorry.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Nino, this PUD I see is
dated 90-19, so it's the nineteenth PUD in the year 19907
MR. NINO: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Is this a PUD that would
normally be coming back to us under the sunset provisions?
MR. NINO: Yes, it would.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Would our approval today
preclude that from coming back now?
MR. NINO: No, it would not.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It will not.
MR. NINO: (Mr. Nino shook head.)
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: So they -- they have until their
fifth year to get their site plan in?
MR. NINO: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I'll reclose the public hearing.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'll make a motion to approve PUD
90-19(1) with the stipulation stated on the record by the
applicant.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion and a second. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #12C1
RESOLUTION BAR-96-2 APPROVING AMENDMENTS TO THE FISCAL YEAR 1995/96
ADOPTED BUDGET (2ND QUARTER) - ADOPTED
Next item is 12(C)(1), resolution approving amendments
to the fiscal year '95, '96 second quarter.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Good morning, commissioners. For the
record, Michael Smykowski, county budget director. In accordance
with
Florida statute, these are a series of budget amendments increasing
a
fund appropriating additional revenues. Each of these has been
previously approved by the board via a separate executive summary.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
There are none.
Item #12C2
RESOLUTION BAR-96-3 APPROVING AMENDMENTS TO THE FISCAL YEAR 1995/96
ADOPTED BUDGET (3RD QUARTER) - ADOPTED
Mr. Smykowski, the next one is the third quarter?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That's correct, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Same thing?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Same thing exactly.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: All these amendments have been
approved previously by the board.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #12C3
ORDINANCE 96-50 AMENDING ORDINANCE 87-78 WHICH CONFIRMED THE
CREATION
OF THE GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COHMITTEE BY
AMENDING SECTIONS ONE AND TWO BY CHANGING THE NAME OF THE MUNICIPAL
SERVICE TAXING UNIT TO GOLDEN GATE BEAUTIFICATION MUNICIPAL SERVICE
TAXING UNIT, AND BY CHANGING THE NAME OF THE ADVISORY COHMITTEE TO
THE
GOLDEN GATE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COHMITTEE - ADOPTED
12(C)(3) --
MR. SHYKOWSKI: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, these 3 and 4
go together. The first is to change the name from Golden Gate
Parkway
Beautification Advisory Committee simply to the Golden Gate
Beautification Advisory Committee. It was originally created to do
the beautification on Golden Gate Parkway. Now they'd like to
expand
and be able to do some other areas. So they want to just clarify
that
in the name.
Second item expands some of the boundaries which will
allow them to do more in more places and also collect a little bit
more in the community so that they can do more either on Santa
Barbara
or Sunshine or Coronado or different roads that are the main
corridors
in the Golden Gate area.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Why don't we take these separately.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I was just going to ask, the
property owners in the second one are in agreement to be included
in
the HSTU?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There's been -- and I don't
know if there's anybody from the beautification advisory committee
here.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Do we have public speakers on either
of these?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: She may be able to answer
that. I know we've had an --
MR. DORRILL: You have a representative --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- extensive discussion on
that.
MR. DORRILL: I said that there is a representative of
the advisory committee who's here.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: She may be able to clarify
that for you, Commissioner Matthews, but I know there's been
extensive
discussion on that. They've had several meetings and public
meetings
and workshops and such.
MS. HUSCI: I'm sure Mr. Archibald has all the
information. Our concern was -- oh, Sabina Husci. I'm sorry. I'm
with the advisory board. We were just concerned with -- for future
reference that our boundaries ended in the center of a median. And
at
some point in time if we wanted to do something with that median,
would need the whole median. So we were just extending our
boundaries
past the center line for no other reason. We have no immediate
plans
for that. This is just in preparation.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There wonwt be an immediate
collection from those areas.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Oh. So these -- these boundary
changes then do not include additional property owners who have not
before --
MS. MUSCI: No.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- been included.
MS. MUSCI: No.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No other public speakers?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Weigel, do you want to jump in
here?
MR. WEIGEL: On 12(C)(4). I guess youlre purely on
12(C)(3) at this point.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Weill need two separate motions.
Theylre different ordinances.
MR. WEIGEL: Thatls right.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Did you close?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Close the public hearing on 12(C)(3).
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve --
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: Second.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- item 12(C)(3).
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion and a second. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #12C4
ORDINANCE 96-51 AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 83-55 WHICH CREATED THE
GOLDEN
GATE PARKWAY BEAUTIFICATION MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT, BY
AMENDING
SECTION TWO TO CHANGE THE NAME OF THE MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT
TO
GOLDEN GATE BEAUTIFICATION MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT AND TO
EXPAND
THE BOUNDARIES OF THE UNIT TO INCLUDE POSTIONS OF GREEN BOULEVARD,
C.R.
951 AND SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD; AMENDING SECTION THREE TO PROVIDE
GENERAL LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN THE ROAD RIGHTS-OF-WAY AND
ACCENT
LIGHTING; AMENDING SECTION SIX AS IT PERTAINS TO THE PURPOSE FOR
THE
LEVY OF TAX MILLAGE - ADOPTED
12(C)(4)?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: Just small comment. The amendment that
appears in the agenda package needs a slight change under section 6
appearing on page 3 of the agenda package, and at the bottom of the
page are some underlines which really don't -- the additions are
not
appropriate there because it's referring to a 1984 ballot question.
So although we're increasing the reasons for the -- for the work to
be
done in the HSTU, we don't need to correct the old question that's
long -- long ago history, and we'll -- we'll make that change.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. So I -- then you're saying that
line 28 to 33 are ineffective?
MR. WEIGEL: Well, that's correct. No change needs to
be made there, and we'll --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: -- we'll reflect that in the version that
comes to the board.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: All right. Close the public hearing.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
offer a motion to approve 12(C)(4) as amended.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #12C6
RESOLUTION 96-402 APPROVING THE PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, ESTIMATED
COSTS
AND TENTATIVE ASSESSMENT ROLL FOR THE NAPLES PARK AREA DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS MUNICIPAL SERVICE BENEFIT UNIT AND CONFIRMING THE
INITIAL
RESOLUTION, NO. 96-312, ORDERING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ASSESSABLE
IMPROVEMENTS - ADOPTED
Our next item is 12(C)(6), Naples Park drainage
improvements.
MR. BOLDT: Good morning. For the record, John Boldt,
storm water management director. This morning's agenda item is a
repeat of a tentative assessment hearing held on Naples Park last
year. But now that we have the bids in hand, the tentative
assessment
rolls have been recomputed. And this public hearing, which has
been
duly advertised and all the property owners near have been sent a
notice by first class mail of their tentative assessments, is for
the
approval of the roll. We do have two letters we need to read into
the
record of objections. I guess out of 3,700, I had 2 personal
letters
addressed to the board objecting to the project, not necessarily to
the assessments themselves. One of them is from Salvatore and
Antonio
(sic) Vitale. And the other one is from Joseph and Catherine
Trupiano
both of Naples Park, and they both object to the project.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Boldt, out of the 3,700,
how many letters do you have praising the project?
MR. BOLDT: Not necessarily any.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay.
MR. BOLDT: I have some phone calls. We put out a fact
sheet I thought maybe you've noticed, and several people called us
and
thanked us for the fact sheet which I was thankful for.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thanks.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: A lot of people write letters
saying "I'd love to be assessed."
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let's go to the public speakers.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Lamoureux.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Boldt, while he's coming up,
do you have -- have you received any telephone calls in opposition
to
this as well?
MR. BOLDT: There were a number of people called in
inquiring about the assessments, and we dealt with them. I'm not
sure
they necessarily were objections as wanting more information what
this
is all about.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Okay. But -- okay. They were
simply -- simply inquiries then.
MR. BOLDT: Yes, ma'am.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Anderson, you'll follow Mr.
Lamoureux.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Lamoureux, could you go ahead,
please?
MR. DORRILL: Apparently Mr. Anderson's going to speak
before.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think they're asking for a
change in the line-up.
MR. ANDERSON: Good morning, commissioners. For the
record, my name is Bruce Anderson from Young, van Assenderp, and
Varnadoe. And I represent Commercial Development Company, William
Chapin and Guy and Helinda Fracasa who are all owners of developed
commercial property within the municipal service benefit unit. I'd
like to --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could you identify them, Mr.
Anderson, just what properties?
MR. ANDERSON: What properties?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh.
MR. ANDERSON: Commercial Development owns Coventry
Square and the North Park Office Center. Mr. Chapin owns a small
strip center called Plaza Park, and Mr. and Mrs. Fracasa own
another
strip shopping center directly across the street from Plaza Park
that
is called Plaza North.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: And I -- as required, I want to give the
court reporter our written objections and make those a part of the
record.
We believe that the runoff intensity factor assessment
methodology is incorrect and it is at odds with what a ground truth
survey would have revealed. It does not take into account that the
county has for many years required commercial developments to have
on-site water retention and has never required that from
residential
properties. Because of that difference, these platted residential
lots need and will benefit more from the drainage project than the
platted commercial lots which do have on-site retention.
The methodology uses a .7 or 70 percent for commercial
lots and a .3 for residential lots as the runoff intensity factor.
And it was explained to me that it's tied to, as a general rule,
which
this general rule doesn't apply in this case, that 70 percent of
commercial areas are impervious surfaces and only 30 percent of
residential areas are typically impervious. Mr. Lamoureux will
advise
you that that is not the case, and these -- these commonly accepted
values that we have used in their methodology are at odds with
what's
on the ground. And we believe you should rely on facts and not
general assumptions.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sorry.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Please continue, Mr. Anderson.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A little distracting. I'm
sorry.
MR. ANDERSON: As an example, the North Park Office
Center, the final site development plan approved by Collier County
for
this project reflects 43 percent open space pervious coverage, not
30
percent as -- as is assumed and is used in this -- in the
assessment
methodology. Mr. Lamoureux will tell you that that 43 percent is
pretty typical for new commercial developments what with
landscaping,
buffering requirements that you impose on commercial properties
that
you don't impose on residential. He will also tell you that the
typical pervious impervious --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Why don't you let him tell us.
MR. ANDERSON: Well, I want to tie it in.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Why don't you just let him tell us.
MR. ANDERSON: Well, I need to tie it in here or what I
-- what I say will be out of context. We believe that the runoff
intensity factor ought to be established at .5 or 50 percent for
both
residential and commercial lots.
We also believe that those properties which lie within
the, A, flood zone should be assessed at a higher rate than those
who
lay outside the flood zone. It only makes sense that those that
are
in the flood zone will benefit more from this drainage. We also
believe that the location benefit factor has been inappropriately
applied to the Coventry Square PUD. They are on the very outside
of
the assessment project up in the northeast corner. They will
discharge immediately across lllth Avenue North, and they were
required to build a very extensive water management system at the
time
of that PUD approval. Mr. Lamoureux will give you the details of
that.
Finally, additionally, we feel that the county should be
kicking in some more. Mr. Boldt -- yeah, I know, but I gotta get
it
on the record. You own 33 percent of the land, and it's all
impervious surface. And you're only kicking in sixteen and a half
percent. Normally when you repair roads and maintain them, they
are
paid for through gas taxes and ad valorem taxes, not special
assessments. And we feel that that part of the drainage project
that
involves the roadway work should be paid for outside of special
assessments.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: And I would ask that you take cognizance
of point 5 in my letter which I previously distributed to you, and
I
thank you.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Anderson, when were you
retained by CDC to represent them?
MR. ANDERSON: Last week.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. So the date on this letter
of September 3 where you ask that specific information be reviewed
and
we delay a decision when, in fact, the methodology discussions have
been ongoing for over a year now and, in fact, CDC has had a
representative at many of those meetings sitting in the back of
this
room, don't you find this timing to be a little -- a little
antagonistic?
MR. ANDERSON: It's certainly not intended to be
antagonistic. We -- we met with staff as early as we -- as early
as
we could last week on Friday unfortunately.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: But they waited to retain you
until last week.
MR. ANDERSON: That's -- that's correct, but if -- if
we're not allowed to -- to raise these questions and objections at
the
public hearing, I would respectfully ask what's the purpose of the
__
of the public hearing.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: You're certainly allowed to. I
was just curious about the timing of this request.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Lamoureux and Ms. Fitz-Gerald.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: We already know everything you're
going to tell us.
MR. LAMOUREUX: Yeah. Well, Bruce Anderson -- what I'm
going to tell you is what he should have told you. No, no, just --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Identify yourself, please.
MR. LAMOUREUX: Oh. Hark Lamoureux. I'm representing
myself this morning, and I'm representing Commercial Development.
I'm
representing myself because I have a piece of property that I have
my
office building in on 97th Avenue. And I myself have looked at the
methodology. And, quite frankly, I have waited till the last
minute,
but it was just because I knew this public hearing was going to be
my
chance to speak up.
For myself, I'm against the project because I feel like
it's a county subdivision and the county should be taking care of
drainage problems as they exist. We have a drainage problem there,
and the county should, I think, take care of it without assessing
all
of us individually.
Now, as a representative of Commercial Development,
there's a few things about the methodology that I disagree with.
One
is the intensity factor. The commercial properties have an
intensity
factor of 0.7. The requirement that commercial properties have is
a
storm water management requirement, a landscaping and buffering
requirement. And I believe that it would be incorrect to use that
as
an intensity factor for the commercial properties.
There's also -- and I brought a copy of the flood map.
If we -- if we look at a copy of the -- the flood map, the
properties
north of 102d Avenue are in the flood plane. The properties south
are
not. So it would seem that there is more benefit to those
properties
that are not in the flood zone or actually just the opposite, that
there would be more property benefit to those in the flood zone,
and
there should be some way to account for that particular situation.
With the matter of Coventry Square, Coventry Square had
as part of its design a fairly sophisticated drainage system. The
system discharges completely off the site, off of the project area.
In particular -- well, maybe we better use that map over
there. Coventry Square is in the very northeast corner of the
project. As you can see, the -- the plan is to discharge the water
off of the site. And we have an elaborate system here. We're
discharging, and then we're going completely off site. I would
think
that because of the system we have in place and because of the fact
that we're not contributing or flowing through Naples Park that we
should either eliminate entirely or reduce these location benefit
factors or the intensity factor all together.
I think those are the major points that I wanted to
cover. We would need, again, to reduce the commercial intensity
factor and also to eliminate some of the -- the -- the commercial
development properties, namely the Coventry Square project. And
lastly, we would need to separate those properties that are
commercial
that are in the flood zone and those that are out of the flood
Zone.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Lamoureux, same question.
When were you retained by CDC to review this project in its
entirety?
MR. LAMOUREUX: Well, for this specific purpose, it was
last week. But as I mentioned to you, since I received my notice
as a
property owner there, I knew I had this forum in order to speak up.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: But you've been actually
reviewing the plan in its entirety for the last ten days
intensively?
Would that be your --
MR. LAMOUREUX: I've looked at them a little more
closely in anticipation of this meeting, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Fitz-Gerald, then Mr. McGilvra.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: The reason I never responded to this
was because I just got home on Saturday night and --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Name, please.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Oh, sorry. It's Vera Fitz-Gerald. I
live on 107th in the nonbenefiting zone. It's not dated. I had no
idea other than the fact there was going to be a public hearing.
It
doesn't say when you have to get a letter in by because there's no
date on it, no date on the envelope. It seems that when you're
supposed to respond for something or they ask for input they could
at
least put a date on it. I --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Vera, can you pull that
microphone down a little bit closer? Thanks.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Sorry. I rarely am accused of
speaking too softly. It must be a function of exhaustion.
These businesses -- just one side comment here that the
businesses are saying that they have drainage retention for their -
_
their businesses and there's so much permeable area. I'd sure love
to
see it. I know that area pretty well.
I want to put these in as part of the record. They're
letters I have written in the past. I want it to be part of this
hearing. I'm not going to go over it. I have stood here, and I
have
been talking for ten years.
And the last thing I want to say on it is that I'm not
gonna benefit from this. The way I would have benefitted was if
the
secondary system had been addressed. The secondary system is being
not addressed. I don't benefit from this at all. I don't
contribute
to the problem. I live in the west basin. I'm going to continue
to
flood. Sixth Street's gonna continue to flood. Seventh Street's
gonna continue to flood as are the avenues. Nothing is being done
for
that.
Now, this assessment I received was rather astonishing.
I will be billed $1,533.58 for nothing. If -- I would like someone
on
this board to tell me where I benefit.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Vera, we've had that discussion
several times, and we disagree.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: We've had it hundreds of times. But I
need to know where the benefit is. If I'm gonna pay $1,500, I'm
still
gonna flood, I'm still gonna have a big ditch.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Vera, does your water leave your
property?
MS. FITZ-GERALD: No, backs up on it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So you have a retention era --
area around your entire property, so everything that falls on your
property is kept there, doesn't go anywhere.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: It doesn't go anywhere, but the
neighbor's comes on to ours. That's why we flood; okay? That's
all I
want to say. I do not benefit. It's a lot of money to ask
somebody
in the west basin to pay when there's no benefit.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. McGilvra.
MR. MCGILVRA: My name is Doug McGilvra. First of all,
I'd like to thank all the commissioners for all the work you've
done
on this for the last ten years, particularly John Boldt and his
group
in stormwater management, people from Agnoli, Barber, and Brundage
and
Ed Finn and Bob Wiley and everybody else and in particular Tim
Hancock. This has been going on for a long time. I hope we can
bring
it to some kind of a conclusion today. All this problem as far as
the
drainage into the various areas and the methodology factors has
been
gone over ad infinitum, I mean, for years. This is not just one
year. It's been a number of years.
People who are -- have been concerned about this
certainly have been doing some thinking about it a long time before
now. I can understand that probably they were busy and couldn't
get
to it. But I think it's an important thing. They should have
looked
into it. I was looking into it for a long time myself.
I say let's, you know, go ahead with the project. I
think it's about as low a cost as we're ever going to get at the
present time. I think everybody in the Park is going to be helped
out
by this item.
Vera says, of course, she has a problem with some
flooding, and there are some other areas in the Park which are
somewhat downhill, and they're going to still have problems. But
George Archibald has put out a memo as to what he's going to do on
the
secondary system at county expense. And this has been planned all
along from a mevious -- previous meeting of about two years ago.
So there is going to be something done on the secondary
system. It is in the plans. It is being presented before the
board
in the next few weeks, I guess, George. I'm not positive exactly
when
but -- so that problem is being solved. I think the whole thing is
rolling in the right direction. Let's go. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: That's all, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just one quick question. I
know where we're headed with this anyway. But just for my comfort
level -- and I appreciate your comment, Commissioner Hancock. This
has been going on a long time, and there have been ample
opportunities
to participate and raise the question. But, Mr. Boldt, can you
just
tell me the one point Mr. Lamoureux raised that that corner parcel
sends water out of the area, if -- if that's accurate or if it
doesn't
contribute in any way to this system.
MR. BOLDT: Coventry Square property does drain into the
facilities we've proposed to improve, and there's a considerable
amount of money we're going to spend north of lllth also.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's all I need to hear.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I -- I think that obviously
Agnoli, Barber, and Brundage given this letter today is not really
going to be able to provide a detailed response, but I don't see a
lot
of new questions being raised here. What I would like to do is ask
that staff prepare a response to the five points raised in this
letter
and copy the Board of County Commissioners on it; should staff find
that there is a valid issue here and not just some red herring
issues,
that that be addressed. But I believe these have all been
addressed
either verbally or in writing at one stage during these hearings,
so I
think we're fairly well covered there.
With that direction I would like -- I'd like to go ahead
and make a motion that we approve resolution 96-312 as presented
today.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'm gonna -- yeah, I was going
to say I was going to second. I've got one question, though, Mr.
Boldt. It's my understanding that the easement along 91st, 92nd
where
it meets the lagoon has been gated off, fenced off. And if you'd
look
into that, I'd -- I'd appreciate it.
MR. BOLDT: I'll look into that also.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion and a second. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
MR. WEIGEL: Mr. Chairman -- excuse me, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That passes 4 to 1. Yes.
MR. WEIGEL: Pardon me. In regard to the motion for
clarification,
the resolution 96-312 in the executive summary is a resolution that
was
to be rescinded. The resolution that's being done today does not
have
a number yet.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: So I think that the record would need to
reflect that you're adopting the resolution in the agenda packet
today.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let me clarify the intended
motion. The intended motion was to approve the plan,
specifications,
and estimated cost and a tentative assessment roll for the Naples
Park
area drainage improvement municipal service benefit unit and
confirm
initial resolution. You said -- now you said that resolution's
being
rescinded?
MR. WEIGEL: No. 312 --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Right number.
MR. WEIGEL: The initiating resolution's being rescinded.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah, this says we are confirming
96-312. Is that, in fact, correct?
MR. WEIGEL: The executive summary recommendation says
rescind the initiating resolution.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let's make sure we get that right
because that's a little bit on the important side.
MR. WEIGEL: Absolutely.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Are we confirming 96-312, or are
we rescinding?
MR. BOLDT: Well, top of page 2 of the executive summary
says if the board finds at the conclusion of this public hearing
that
the project cannot be approved --
MR. WEIGEL: Okay.
MR. BOLDT: -- then -- then you are to rescind the
previous one, but you are approving. Therefore, you don't need to
take that action.
MR. WEIGEL: Pardon me.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: So my motion stands on 96-312.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that
clarification for my sake. Thank you.
Item #13A1
PETITION V-96-11, TROY JANSEN REPRESENTING JOHN JANSEN REQUESTING
8.12 FOOT AFTER-THE-FACT VARIANCE FROM THE REQUIRED 15 FEET SIDE
YARD
SETBACK TO 6.88 FEET AND A 3.75 FOOT VARIANCE FROM THE REQUIRED
REAR
YARD SETBACK OF 5 FEET TO 1.25 FEET FOR A WALK-IN COOLER INSTALLED
AT
THE REAR OF THE RESTAURANT - DENIED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Next item is 13(A)(1), petition
V-96-11.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Good morning, commissioners. My name
is Chahran Badamtchian from planning services staff. This variance
is
a -- this is an after-the-fact variance for Marco Island, 826
Elkcam
Circle. The petitioner installed a cooler, walk-in cooler, which
has
an 8.12-foot encroachment into the side setback and a 3.75-foot
encroachment into the rear setback. But the rear setback problem
was
resolved by -- the staff says the code says the minimum rear
setback
has to be five feet or a minimum -- or zero. The applicant agreed
to
increase the size of the cooler in the back so they are going to
have
a zero-foot setback in the back.
And for the side setback this building was built under
the old code, and the old code said side setback zero. But the new
code -- code's saying side setback 15. There's a language in the
Land
Development Code that we can administratively approve variances for
additions built on the exact same building line. However, that
provision does not include commercial developments. That's the
variance they are asking for today.
Planning commission heard this item and unanimously
recommended denial. However, at the time the applicant didn't have
proper representation.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And now they have Rich
Yovanovich.
MR. DORRILL: I wouldn't go so far as to say that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me just make sure I
understand. The -- the -- it was -- the building was originally
done
with what -- the code then was a zero.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Correct. The code allowed zero side
setback, and that's -- they built the building on the side property
line.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What they've done here in
asking for the variance is consistent with the old -- with the
existing --
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: They are -- no, they are not going to
be on the exact same building line. They are going to have a
3.75-foot setback on the same side, but today's code requires 15.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Chahran, when they came in for a
building permit for this expansion --
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: They didn't pull a building permit.
It was built without a permit.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No permit pulled, and now an
after-the-fact variance for a structure that was not permitted.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Boy, we've seen this one before.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What -- and what's the
penalty? Should we approve this, there is a penalty.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: We charge them twice the variance
fee. Instead of 425, we charge them $850.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Proper representation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Proper representation.
MR. YOVANOVICH: For the record --
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Let's hear a good story.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I have no story. The critical
timing of when we were retained was -- when we were retained was --
I'm sorry. Rich Yovanovich with Roetzel and Andtess.
Our client did build the structure before pulling the
building permit. There's no denying that. We were retained after
he
had already built it and asked us to help, and he will pay extra
building permit fees I believe also in addition to the extra fees
for
the after-the-fact variance.
I think this would have been administratively handled,
as Chahran has said, if there was a procedure for that to be taken
care of. I have nothing else to add other than what Chahran has
already said.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I made an unsuccessful argument
several weeks ago that when someone goes ahead and builds something
without a building permit and does not give our staff or this board
the opportunity to review the impacts prior to their construction
that
then obtaining an after-the-fact variance is just ludicrous. It's
it's a complete dismissal of -- of the process that they're
supposed
to go through to avoid these types of things. And every time we
allow
one of these variances, we're saying that's all right, the extra
425
is enough penalty. Have a nice day. And I disagreed with the
board's
decision on the last one, and I see no reason to approve this
after-the-fact variance.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I understand your
frustration. However, what I hear you saying is under no
circumstance
should there ever be an after-the-fact variance. And if that was
the
case, we wouldn't have a policy that allowed for after-the-fact
variances.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, that's not what I'm saying.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well -- well, I mean, in
effect you're saying anybody who's done this and comes back
afterwards
__
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- you think is bad.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No. I'm saying --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And what I hear our staff
saying is had this come through the proper channels, it probably
would
have been approved. If that's the case, there is a penalty
attached,
and they should be -- should be penalized for not doing it
properly.
However, to simply be dismissed out of hand, you didn't do it
properly
so you can't do it at all --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, that's not what I'm saying.
You've mischaracterized my statement. I said they did not pull a
building permit. This isn't someone who pulled a building permit
and
there was a construction error or there was a staff error or there
was
a misinterpretation. This is someone who simply didn't pull a
permit. And now on top of -- what's the cost of a building permit
when you make an addition like this?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: We charge the -- double the fee. It
probably is like $42. We charge $84, something like that.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I -- I just have a problem with
people who -- particularly a commercial business makes an addition
and
doesn't pull a building permit. I just think what it does, it puts
us
in a position of saying you have to go physically tear down
something
that we may have approved, and there's -- that's a no win, you
know.
But if we're not afforded the opportunity to do it through a
reasonable process, I don't believe variances were intended as a
catch-all for those who ignore pulling building permits. And
that's
what I feel this is doing, and that's what I feel the one a few
weeks
ago did, and I just can't be supportive of that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You don't think this is a
reasonable process.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. I -- I thought this board
had discussed a couple of years ago about raising the penalty fee
for
after-the-fact variances and after-the-fact permits to -- to -- to
such a level -- and I thought we were talking $1,000 or more -- but
raising them to such a level that it truly is a penal -- truly is a
penalty. And -- and, you know, $425 for some of this stuff is
insignificant to -- to what they've done.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. -- Mr. Weigel, does the board of
zoning appeals have the ability to impose fines?
MR. WEIGEL: No, no, they do not.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And if we're going to make a
financial penalty -- penalty, then let's just say, go ahead and do
what you want, and here's the cost. It's either use it the way
it's
intended or let's strike it. And I think we're bending it far
beyond
the intent of after-the-fact variances. Again, we can argue it all
day. Might as well take a vote on it but it --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: May I just ask you a
question? The -- the -- your preference would be return to staff,
that they remove their violation, they come back, they ask for a
variance, then if it gets passed, then they go ahead and build it
again.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: If they choose to do that, fine.
What I'm saying today is to ignore two separate processes and for
this
board to say that that's okay, I have a problem with it. If it
means
this person has to tear it down, they have to tear it down. This
board voted 5-0 to remove the corner of a swimming pool cage in
Naples
Park, the corner, 5-0, but now we're saying go ahead and build
something without a building permit at all, come in after the fact
variance, and it's okay. I think that's not consistent, and I
prefer
the tack that we took that said, look, you're going to have to
follow
the process. And if you don't, our approving these types of things
condones that. So this is much more principle than it is issue
specific, and -- and that's where I'm going to stay on it.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'd like to ask one more
question, please, Chahran. The -- the petitioner who -- who built
this walk-in cooler, did he have any discussion at all with
development services prior to what he did? Or did he just go do it
and ignore the system completely?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: I -- I believe he did. I believe he
came and asked someone for a building permit and he was told that
he
need a 15-foot setback, and he walked away and he built it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: The exact same thing.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Weigel, variance --
after-the-fact variance still requires four votes; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No.
MR. WEIGEL: I don't think so. I think it's just
three. Variances are three.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Commissioners, again, I don't condone
the way the client went about doing this. But the bottom line is
he
would get -- if staff could have done this administratively, they
would have done it and said to him, yes, you can build it. He
didn't
make a very good argument to staff as to why he should have been
allowed to build it the way he planned on doing it. Staff doesn't
have any problems now with how he planned on doing it. I think he
should be charged, you know, for an after-the-fact building permit
fee
and pay the penalty. He should be charged to pay the penalty for
the
after-the-fact variance. You can't have an after-the-fact variance
unless you have violated the rule in the first place, and that's
where
we're at. He has -- he has done it incorrectly, and he wants to
come
back and do it right.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I think Commissioner Hancock's concern
is it's an intentional violation of procedure, not an accidental
one.
It makes a big difference.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I've got one -- I'm sorry. I
had one more question of Chahran.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: When -- when the petitioner was
advised that he needed a 15-foot setback and he just walked away
and
went and built it, did anyone on our staff advise him that there
Was a
method for obtaining a variance?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Yes, we did, but he said he needed the
cooler for the season and he couldn't wait a couple of months.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hancock, you've
persuaded me.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I motion to deny variance 96-11.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Motion carries.
Next item, 12(A)(2).
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Des -- despite proper
counsel, the motion carries.
Item #13A2
RESOLUTION 96-403 RE PETITION V-96-12, G. MICHAEL SCHMAELING
REPRESENTING BOBBY AND KAMI JONES REQUESTING AN AFTER-THE-FACT
VARIANCE
OF 2.3 FEET FROM THE REQUIRED SIDE YARD SETBACK OF 7.5 FEET TO 5.2
FEET
FOR AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE LOCATED AT 4741 PINE RIDGE
ROAD
EXTENSION IN GOLDEN GATE ESTATES - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Petition V-96-12.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Again, Chahran Badamtchian from
planning services staff. This is also an after-the-fact variance
in
the Golden Gate Estates area. The building was built in 1993 based
on
a survey that had a mistake. The building was CO'd in 1993, and a
few
months ago the homeowner decided to build a pool, and we asked for
a
recent survey, and the survey showed encroachment. He's requesting
this variance to remove the violation.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: But he was CO'd and he was
okayed in 1993.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And the survey was in error.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: The survey was in error.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let me ask you this, Mr. Badamtchian,
is we -- oh, I guess it was a month or two ago we said start
keeping a
record of these surveys who -- surveyors who make errors. Are we
doing that now?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: In this case we have to make an
exception. The surveyor has passed away.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Because one -- one thing we did
say is that there was one case in which we -- we asked staff to
send a
letter to the Department of Professional Regulation and the state,
and
I think we'll continue doing that but that --
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Since that's not applicable here
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: There's really not a whole lot
we can do.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: This is one of those.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: An accidental, and it's different --
completely different too. Public speakers?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Close the public hearing.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion to approve with a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #13A3
RESOLUTION 96-404 RE PETITION CU-96-8, ALAN D. REYNOLD, AICP, OF
WILSON, MILLER, BARTON & PEEK, iNC., REPRESENTING THE COLLIER
COUNTY
OFFICE OF CAPITAL PROJECTS MANAGEMENT, REQUESTING A CONDITIONAL USE
PER
SUBSECTION 2.6.9.2 (ESSENTIAL SERVICES) OF THE "A" ZONING DISTRICT
FOR
A MAINTENANCE FACILITY FOR PROPERTY LOCATED DIRECTLY NORTH OF AND
ABUTTING THE COUNTY LANDFILL - ADOPTED
Next item, 13(A)(3), petition CU-96-8.
MR. REISCHL: Good morning, commissioners. Fred
Reischl, planning services. This is a request for a conditional
use
for a 60-acre site -- excuse me -- north of the county -- the
existing
county landfill. The site is -- borders the landfill on a -- the
60-acre site south border.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Reischl, this is our county
maintenance combined maintenance facility we're talking about?
MR. REISCHL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: The one we've been discussing for
about two years?
MR. REISCHL: Conditional use for essential services.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Public speakers?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We're pretty familiar with it.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Are there public speakers?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir, there are not.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I've got one question. Access
to this site is going to come from where?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Above.
MR. REISCHL: The principal access will be --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Helicopter.
MR. REISCHL: -- from 951, Landfill Road and up a
proposed road on the eastern side of the landfill into the
southeast
corner of the maintenance facility. The secondary access is
through
the northeast corner which will eventually tie into Garland Road.
And
one of the stipulations recommended by the planning commission that
is
in the resolution that you have is that that Garland Road access be
only for emergency purposes. If there's something that's blocking
Landfill Road, then they can open up Garland.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Isn't Garland Road a private
road?
MR. REISCHL: There are easements.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: There are -- there are
easements.
MR. REISCHL: I don't believe it's a county road. I
just believe it's easements dedicated to the adjacent property
owners.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Is -- is there any intention
here to put a bridge across the canal at 25th?
MR. REISCHL: 25th? At the planning commission meeting,
Mr. Kant of the transportation services department stated that at
this
time there is not. That was brought up. There were several
property
owners that spoke, Golden Gate Estates property owners that spoke,
that that satisfied their objections. However, there was still at
least one property owner adjacent to the property in the ag. zoning
district that that didn't affect his objections to it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We've been beating people up on
aesthetics lately. I know this is a residential area. I know
there's
a canal there. What type of vegetation do we have on the perimeter
of
this property?
MR. REISCHL: It's mostly pine with scattered cypress.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. What buffer --
MR. REISCHL: It's pretty dense.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- are we required to put there?
MR. REISCHL: Required would be 15, and proposed is 100.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: The likelihood that within 15
feet of -- of the edge of that that pines could be retained and
live
because their root base is a little broader probably is not a --
not a
sufficient distance.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: He just said 100.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: A hundred feet.
MR. REISCHL: A hundred feet is what's proposed.
They're required -- it's only required to be 15.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Instead of listening to you, I'll
just go off on my own tangent.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I like 100-foot buffer on this.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's fine. That's fine.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Public hearing is closed, Mr.
Chairman?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yes. Close the public hearing.
MR. REISCHL: I -- if I could just make one more point
that was brought up at the planning commission, the planning
commission voted 4 to 2 in favor. The two objections were not
necessarily to the landfill -- or to the maintenance facility in
particular but to the fact that it limits the county's options for
expanding -- possibly expanding the landfill in the future.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Which really isn't what the
planning commission's purpose in that item is.
MR. REISCHL: Correct, and that was pointed out by the
county attorney.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
Item #13A4
RESOLUTION 96-405 RE PETITION CU-96-10, BRUCE TYSON, ASLA, OF
WILSON,
MILLER, BARTON & PEEK, INC., REPRESENTING STUART MACUS AS TRUSTEE,
OR
ASSIGNEE, REQUESTING CONDITIONAL USE "16" OF THE "A" RURAL
AGRICULTURAL
DISTRICT FOR A GROUP CARE FACILITY, FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 6901
AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD NORTH (C.R. 31) - ADOPTED
The last item, petition CU-96-10.
MR. NINO: For the record, my name is Ron Nino, planning
services section. Petition CU-96-10 is a petition that asks you to
allow group care facilities as a conditional use in the
agriculturally
zoned district.
The property is a 18-acre -- plus or minus acre parcel
of property that fronts on Airport Road and fronts upon Orange
Blossom
Road. It wraps around the Italian American Club and the -- and the
and a vacant agriculturally zoned property.
To the -- to the west of the subject property you have a
PUD, Sunshine Village, that was approved a couple of years ago that
provides for single-family density development. And then the
remainder of that property is agricultural. And further west of
that
is the Cay Lagoon which is a condominium project currently under
development.
This petition asks you to approve 390 assisted care
living units. There's a breakdown on page 3 of your executive
summary
of the types of units that -- that are proposed.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Before you go on, this is 18
acres roughly?
MR. NINO: Yes.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Currently zoned --
MR. NINO: Agricultural.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And under -- that
agricultural zoning would allow how many living units?
MR. NINO: One dwelling unit for every five acres of
land.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So three?
MR. NINO: Yes.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And the proposal is for --
MR. NINO: 390 units or 21.67 care units per acre, and I
emphasize that because I think you all appreciate there is a
difference between a care unit --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I had a discussion with the
petitioner, and I guess we need to disclose that anyway, that it
Won't
impact my decision today, but the -- I like the ACLF as more of a
true
ACLF than the goofy one we saw on Marco Island a few weeks ago.
But I
-- I really have trouble with the concept of going from what is
currently allowed, 3, to 390.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, likewise, I -- I had
lengthy discussions with the petitioner on this, and I expressed a
lot
of the same reservations and issues that were brought up on the
Marco
Island piece. And I said then that the reason we grant up to 26
units
per acre on ACLF is a true nursing home doesn't have exterior
generation of traffic and external impacts greater than single-
family
homes would. And as you have units that allow for more free living
space and more individual operation, those impacts go up.
What we don't have in front of us is a detailed site
plan that I was shown that show the different phases of the
projects
and the graduation as people move through into a -- an ultimate
what
I'll call a nursing home. There's a nursing home where 24-hour
care
is necessary and so forth.
So within that graduation, if this is in the urban area
we're talking really four units an acre. I mean, that would be low
density residential. So we're looking at 72 units possibly of
single-family homes in there.
So are the external impacts here less than what a
maximum of 72 single-family units would be? And that's the
comparison
that -- that I think is most fair because of the location of the
property.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And -- and coupled with that,
does the future land use element anticipate this kind of change?
MR. NINO: Yes, the future -- well, let me say the
future land use element designates the area as urban residential.
Within the urban residential area, care units broadly defined as
they
are broadly defined in our Land Development Code is a use that is
permitted, authorized through a rezoning action in the residential
areas. Appreciate that in all residential zoning districts
including
the ag. district, we allow care units as a conditional use though
they
are permitted as a matter of right.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And as Commissioner Hancock
just asked, are 390 care units going to give a more intense use to
the
surrounding areas than 70 single-family homes?
MR. NINO: With all respect --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That was your question.
MR. NINO: -- we haven't -- we have not made --
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: That's the distinction I draw.
MR. NINO: We have not made that analysis. However --
and we would not normally make that analysis because whether we
like
it or not, the way the Land Development Code is currently
structured,
it says 26 dwelling units per acre is an authorized use -- is an
authorized density under this type of zoning application. This
petition is at 21.68. They're really not at the -- not asking you
for
the total authorized 26 dwelling units per acre. Now --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So the answer to the question
is you don't know.
MR. NINO: We don't -- we don't know what all of the
level of service relationships are. We do know in terms of traffic
that you could have anywhere from -- normally about three or four
care
units is the equivalent of a standard dwelling unit, anywhere in
the
neighborhood of three or four times. However, if you ask me what
the
-- is there any appreciable difference in terms of water
consumption,
sewer consumption, we have not made that analysis.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm less interested in those than
I am physical external impacts. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Like traffic.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Like -- like traffic, like just
aesthetics. If I'm sitting 50 feet on the other side of the
property
line, what could they build under residential versus this? And
I've
addressed these questions to the petitioner, and I hope that they
have
-- they have brought today the information that allowed me to have
preliminary some degree of comfort, and I -- I think that may help
answer some of these questions.
MR. NINO: If I might address, Commissioner, in terms of
housing structure types, I think it's pretty obvious -- and we --
we
-- we mentioned this -- we may have mentioned this in our staff
report. But if not, I've talked about it in a subsequent
application
that's coming into you very soon for an additional adult care
facility
for the north of this site. When you look at Airport Road, it's
pretty obvious that the first tier or the first 600 feet of Airport
Road that even though the density is only 3 or 4 units per acre
that
in all cases those people are going to be coming before you to ask
for
a rezoning of the type that allows multiple family use, albeit at
the
3 or 4 dwelling units per acre level unless it's a parcel of land
that's less than 10 acres in size. Then you know they're going to
ask
for the infill. So you -- you might reasonably expect that along
Airport Road the response to land use along Airport Road is going
to
be a multi-family structure.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You may recall when Dwight
Nadu was here with the property on the corner of County Barn and
Davis
that I raised the point that perhaps the future land use element
shouldn't assume a maximum use, and I realize under today's
existing
law it does. But I'm wondering what work has been done. And I
know
that's a Land Development Code change, but is that -- that question
progressing? Is that research progressing? Are some options
progressing right now so that things like this -- I don't like the
fact that we just assume it can be used -- it can be changed from
ag.
which would allow 3 and can automatically under law go to 390. I
realize that's what the law says right now, but we had talked about
looking at that change. And is someone doing their homework on
that
in preparation for this LDC?
MR. ARNOLD: For the record, Wayne Arnold of your
planning services staff. We are not specifically looking at that
specific issue as part of the current Land Development Code
changes.
That and many other similar issues were brought about as part of
the
evaluation and appraisal report for the comprehensive plan which
will
be coming back to you late this fall or early in the coming year to
address that issue.
And based on your last discussion, I've had our graphics
department prepare an exhibit which I planned on bringing forward
to
you in the very near future regarding existing agricultural and
estate
zoned property in the urban area to show you what you do have the
potential in making a comparison between the existing density
that's
permissible under the zoning and what the comprehensive plan would
permit as a base density.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: There's also a recognition that
we get a lot of folks at that podium that say, your comp. plan says
I
can have 12 units an acre. No, no. It says up to which means that
the -- the project is graduated based on its impacts to a
reasonable
level.
And that's the approach that I'm taking on this.
They're not asking for 26 units an acre which is what we saw on
Marco. We saw two ends of the spectrum; the highest degree request
for units per acre and the highest degree of individual livability
with garages.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Independence, independent
living.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: You know, in essence it was -- it
was a condo project with -- with a couple of tables to have lunch
at.
So, you know, that was the -- that was just a -- an anomaly I hope.
I
hope that the petitioner can justify the 21 units an acre as far as
impacts, as far as what design elements will cause it to be as
quiet
or quieter than a -- a commensurate residential project.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Why don't we invite him to do
that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let's let him try to do that. And
while the petitioner's coming forward, Mr. Weigel, let me ask a
question that interests me. This is a conditional use. If they
discontinued the use, what do we -- what do we do with the building
if
they discontinue the use? They'll have 21 units an acre built.
What
do we do then?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That was our concern with
Marco.
MR. WEIGEL: I'll make a general statement. Marjorie
may want to fill in some gap here. But it appears to me if there's
a
conditional use and the property's developed for that conditional
use
and the use falls off for the appropriate amount of time where --
wherein the conditional use is lost, then the development on that
property is nonconforming. And it seems to me that the underlying
landowner's going to have some responsibilities to bring that
property
back into conformance.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Before he can use it for any other
purpose.
MR. WEIGEL: Before it can be used for anything else,
yes.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Or demolish it.
MR. WEIGEL: Or demolish it. And, of course, we've had
situations in the past over years where, you know, the property
wasn't
moonscape before it was developed and it shouldn't revert to cement
and moonscape after if the use no longer continues either. There's
a
restoration requirement, reasonable, of course.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Am I correct in that if, let's
say, ABC Nursing Care left the property and the building was vacant
and someone else came in to resume operation they would have to
come
through the county and get a CO or a -- there's a business
designation
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Occupational license.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- that varifies the type of
use?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Occupational license.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes, that's it. I'm sorry.
MR. NINO: Occupational license would establish legally
that there's --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Because that's where we caught
insufficient parking on Marco for one center down there because
somebody else came in for a new use and staff reviews all that
stuff.
MR. NINO: You know, additionally they're getting a
different parking generation, so that if they -- for example, if
they
no longer had a licensed facility and they started to operate it in
the manner of conventional housing, they would have to come back to
because then they'd be operating in contravention of their approved
development order. So they'd have to come back and ask us to
change
something, and that change would all in likelihood be -- would be a
complete retrofit of the physical facility to reduce the density to
that which is allowed by the Land Development Code.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Let's -- let's go with the
petitioner, hear from the petitioner.
MR. GARLICK: Yes. Good morning, members of the
commission. For the record, my name's Tom Garlick. I'm with the
law
firm of Harter, Secrest, and Emery representing Stuart Marcus as
trustee and also his assignee which is Health -- Health Trust
Corporation. Health Trust Corporation I should point out to you is
in
the business and only the business of developing adult living
facilities or ALFs as they're now called under our state code.
I wanted to introduce to you the people that are -- we
brought with us this morning because I know this concept has been a
little unusual and the ALF definitions have changed from time to
time
including in 1995 in the state legislature. So if I might
introduce,
this morning we have with us, members of the commission, Harry
Rafofsky who is a principal and owner of Health Trust Corporation.
Mr. Rafofsky has been involved for over 25 years in senior living
having been an executive vice president of Lovett Homes in the past
where he first developed a senior living and senior care type
facility. He also has developed a very similar facility to the one
we're presenting this morning on the east coast of Florida which
he'd
be glad to answer questions about if you so choose.
With him this morning is Mary Jo Pompayo, vice president
and chief operating offer of Health Trust Corporation. Mary Jo has
bachelor's and master's degrees in long-term care administration
and
has served as an administrator of several ALF-type facilities,
including one facility similar to the one here.
Also with us this morning is Dr. Richard Conard. Dr.
Conard is presently the chairman and CEO of the Senior -- of Senior
Living Services Inc. in -- located in Bradenton, Florida. He is an
expert in senior care health-related issues and ALF-type
facilities.
He and his company consult and lecture widely in the state of
Florida
and other places with regard to ALF-type facilities. And -- and he
will be able for you here this morning should you wish to answer
all
those complicated questions that we seem to raise from time to time
regarding how these -- how these facilities operate.
And lastly, I want to introduce to you who will make our
formal presentation this morning, Bruce Tyson, who I'm sure is
known
to you from prior appearances. He's with Willer, Miller -- Wilson,
Miller, an engineer and land planner and landscape architect with
26
years' experience.
Simply before I sit down, for the record I would like to
introduce the -- for the record a copy of the curriculum vitae that
is
the resume and summary brochure of Dr. Conard, our expert witness;
also a letter from Dr. Conard which sets forth his opinion -- and
it
will speak for itself -- but that this facility shall comply in all
respects with Florida law and licensing requirements for the
facility. And lastly, I'd like to offer the resume of Mr. Bruce
Tyson
the land planner, so that they might become part of the record.
Thank
you, and Mr. Tyson will make our presentation. CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. TYSON: Morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Bruce
Tyson. I'm a project manager with Wilson, Miller, Barton, and
Peek.
And I'll -- let me just take care of a couple of matters that --
that
I think are important just to put on the record.
As part of the conditional use, we have to meet the test
of four -- four points: Its consistency with the LDC and the --
and
the Growth Management -- Management Plan; its making sure that the
ingress and egress to the property and the proposed structures
thereon
are handled from a standpoint of convenience, traffic flow, and
control; that the effect on the conditional use would not have any
major impact from the standpoint of noise, glare, economic, or odor
impacts on the environment to the immediate residents; and in
additional, it must be compatible with the adjacent properties and
other properties within the district.
Briefly if I can -- let's see. Can you all see this --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yes.
MR. TYSON: -- easily enough? Okay. We -- this is --
again, this is 17.8 acres, almost 18 acres. Orange Blossom along
here, Airport Road to the north, and a ten-acre block of land here,
half of which is open and vacant. The Italian American Club is a
provisional use that's on the upper five acres of that; RSF-1
zoning
for Yarberry Lane to the west; and a vacant parcel about 330 feet
by
the total length which is about 1,320 feet along the south
boundary.
When we -- we looked at this -- and I'll try to address
some of your issues as I go through this and try to keep it as
brief
at the same time -- we talked about density and what the impact
would
be. In terms of setting that up, it was the placement of -- in
this
case as it turned out 390 units on the 17.8 acres. And what was
important was the -- the visibility and how we could utilize this
narrow band of 330 feet. And as it turns out, its best use was
almost
to create a park. And from the water management standpoint, the
building in terms of impact visually is set back over 700 feet to
Airport Road. So it -- it virtually will not be seen.
The -- the way in which it's been phased -- and we talk
about phases or somebody has -- the initial phase is this is a
first
phase, this is a second phase. And the idea behind it is to
cjuster
with a major amenity which takes up about 20 percent of the whole
facility a group of assisted living units and supportive living
units
attached to this main cjuster.
You've asked some real challenging questions when it
comes to impact. And it's very, very difficult to -- to quantify
Some
of this information simply because it doesn't exist in an
apples-to-apples basis. Mr. Nino pointed out that -- that you'd
look
at these as care units. And when you try to go to trip generation
numbers, it's almost impossible to come up and make the comparison
between what is someone here going to be driving versus what will
somebody in a comparative situation driving (sic).
If you look at -- from a -- from that pure standpoint
without trying to get overly technical about it, for instance, the
highest density which exists just down from this in the -- the Bear
Creek apartments, at about 16 units per acre, they generate
approximately 105 trips per day per acre. And that's the only way
I
can do this to try to get it down into a comparative basis. The
only
apples-to-apples comparison was an acre.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is that like an assumption rate
for traffic engineers for life?
MR. TYSON: That's based on -- it's pulled right out of
what's called the ITE trip generation which is 6.6 trips per -- per
acre as it -- as it works out. So you can go through all these
numbers. I mean, you know, it's -- it comes out to the point -- I
think what I -- it really boils down to is Mr. Rafofsky has done a
project over on the east coast called North Park which is in
Hollywood
where we have some actual numbers as to what happens from a
standpoint
of traffic. As it turns out, in that facility there are 375 total
units or apartments in that facility. And from the standpoint of
the
overall parking lot ratio to -- in other words, the number of
automobiles for the number of apartments, it's 44 percent.
And yet we're looking at even in the presentation here
of having 81 percent parking spaces if you look at it in a pure
numbers basis versus the number of units, even though they have a
similar parking ratio from the standpoint of the number of vehicles
that are there, the point being that nobody drives or very few
people
drive.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: As far as the traffic element, on
-- page 9 of our executive summary says that the ITE trip
generation
manual indicates that this petition will generate approximately a
little more than a thousand trips on a weekday, and that's what was
used to -- to conclude that you don't reach that 5 percent of that
LOS
C design volume.
MR. TYSON: That's correct.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: The -- that -- maybe this is for
Mr. Nino. What would the -- if these were regular apartments
instead
of life care units, what would the trip generations be for this
density? Somebody look that up in the ITE because it's just --
MR. NINO: It would be about six and -- it would be
about six and a half units -- six and a half trips per day for each
dwelling unit.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: About 2,000 plus.
MR. NINO: For multiple family.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: So a -- so about double. And so
in other words, your project is about half of what an apartment
complex, a normal apartment complex, would generate for trips using
the ITE numbers.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: However, 4 -- 4 units an acre
which would yield about 72 homes, the ITE standard is, I think, 10
trips a day per single family.
MR. NINO: Single family's ten and a half.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So you -- ten and a half.
MR. NINO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So you're talking nearly 800 for
single family at 4 units an acre.
MR. NINO: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: You'd mentioned 44 percent of the
units at a similar project on the east coast. As a matter of fact,
is
it very similar to this?
MR. TYSON: Very similar.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Forty-four percent had vehicles.
MR. TYSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. So were there any trip
generation numbers from that, any counters across the entries?
MR. TYSON: No. Again, that gets very sophisticated,
and it's not necessarily comparing apples to apples. And we can --
we
could go on.
I think one of the most important things is, even though
it jumps ahead a little bit, this is a chart that is put together
by
Dr. Conard, and he can be very specific when it comes to answering
any
specific question about it. What's most important to recognize is
if
you have what's been referred to in some projects as an independent
living, that's almost like being in a single-family home and having
people come in. That's when your trip generation would wind up
being
higher.
But when you get into the congregate living from the
standpoint of resi -- from vehicle trips, you might get a few of
these
people in here that would have cars that would actually move them.
Up
in here with the assisted you get -- you would get next to none.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And where are --
MR. TYSON: And that's what happens. From the
standpoint of the living component as this facility is -- is ranked
in
and amongst what's called the residential care facilities in the
middle of this continuum.
What happens is that you realize you're serving
somewhere between, plus or minus, 800 to 1,000 meals a day. This
becomes much more of a service-oriented facility, not necessarily -
when they look at trip generation, it's not from an automobile
standpoint. It's from service vehicles and what happens from that
standpoint on a daily basis as much as it would be from an
automobile
basis.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Tyson, you seem to be ignoring
visitation.
MR. TYSON: Well, that would be -- certainly that would
be a major component. But again, that's all built into that two
point
-- as a matter of fact, the -- the -- the comparison number that
you
were asking for, Commissioner, was 2.15 for a lower component of
this. And, quite frankly, ITE hasn't quite caught up with -- with
what we're doing here.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think there's -- the ITE model,
there's only like four or five examples so they even put -- is it
27
There's little asterisks on the bottom of that page that says,
here's
the curve, but don't bet on it. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And that's the 2.15 numbers. So
it could be higher or lower depending on where you fall on that
scale.
MR. TYSON: And those both were done in Oregon, both
studies.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I think we beat the traffic element to
death. Continue, please.
MR. TYSON: In addition to the plan that we have there,
I wanted to indicate to you a little bit of what's happening within
the county, especially now with the issues dealing with -- we get
into
the aesthetic side of the business. And the idea here is to really
present a first class product. And one of the things that totally
differentiates this if you try to compare with -- with other
facilities -- sometimes I know that occurs -- but the rents here
will
wind up being, for the type of use that occurs, somewhere in the
neighborhood of two and a half at a minimum times the market rents
that you would have for a luxury apartment.
Consequently, what Mr. Rafofsky's target is from his --
his audience and having people come to the facility is to generate
a
first class operation, and it will look very similar to this. This
is
the main entry as you would come up with the assisted living
component
which would be back on this side looking up to what would be
considered part of phase 2. Whole idea is it will be all stucco on
the front with a Mediterranean style mansard that will go up and --
and help hide some of the mechanical equipment on the roof.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Two story?
MR. TYSON: It's a combination of two and three story.
I should point out that as much as we would like to have four story
simply because the ability to re -- or to shorten walking
distances,
the code does not allow that, and we didn't want to ask for any
variances, so there are no variances here.
And consequently, all of what you see in tan are
three-story elements. And the majority of what's shown in the
peach
color winds up being two-story elements.
The other thing we have done from a planning standpoint
is while the buildings are required to be set back 30 feet, in no
case
do we come closer to any property line than 80 feet. So we have
maintained that situation.
We've looked into all of the zoning issues which people
have asked. I think we've responded to those points to you. We'd
be
happy to answer any of those specifically.
I -- I believe that covers the majority. But one of the
other things I think is important that you have asked in the past
is
is this facility or can this facility be licensed. And one of the
most -- that's the most important element because it's required
right
out of the code. And the point is that this facility can be
completely licensed and is -- is designed and developed under the
guidelines of the state statutes for that purpose.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Do we have any public speakers on
this?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir, I don't have any.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Don't have any. Do we have any
questions from the board?
No questions?
Mr. Tyson, what if this board were to ask you to limit
to 15 units an acre? Would you still go forward with the project?
MR. TYSON: I'd have to certainly ask my client about
that. It comes to a point of where you have an economic
justification. I'll let him explain that if -- if you would like
to
do that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: He doesn't need to explain economics
to me. Just answer the question would be sufficient.
MR. TYSON: No, not at that -- not that low. That would
-- that would never quite -- it would never quite get to that low
point I don't believe. And that's -- that's all -- again, that's
all
part that they would have to respond to.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Any more questions from the board?
Close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Move approval of the request.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Before we vote, I'm going to
say I'm going to support it because it meets our current law. But
I
want to voi -- again voice my objection to the future land use
element
and the fact that it just automatically assumes property currently
zoned as estates or ag. can be used to -- to the maximum use.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I was initially concerned about
this when I saw 390. I live in a community that wraps around
Moorings
Park, and I don't think we could have a better neighbor as
single-family. There's not -- I mean, I drive by those gates every
day three, four times a day, and rarely is there a car even coming
out
of it. That combined with a lot of the things that have been done
here give me a greater level of comfort that this is actually going
to
be better for the area than the request that may come down the
road.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Dotrill, you've heard several
board members including myself say that we want to take a look at
the
future land use element as soon as possible and as well as the --
our
LDC and density allowables that come with these ACLFs, ALFs --
MR. DORRILL: Very well.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- affordable housing, all of those
density bonus situations. We'd like to see all of those.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And even the urban estates or
urban ag. property.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I -- I think you need to include
the -- the proximity to activity center in that also.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: The whole thing.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We'd like to -- all would like to look
at all of those.
We have a motion and a second in the interim. All those
in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
That motion is approved.
Item #14A
UPDATE RE LAKE TRAFFORD RESTORATION COHMITTEE - DISCUSSED
Commissioner Matthews, anything else?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah, I have two -- two items.
One, I'd like to give the board a quick update on the Lake Trafford
restoration. Committee, we met again last week. And things are
moving along quite well. We have gotten -- the DEP has done some
bathymetry studies, and we find out that there are eight million
cubic
yards of muck in Lake Trafford.
Also the DEP is doing some testing virtually as we speak
on heavy metals, pesticides, and so forth in the muck so that we
know
what we can and can't do with it as we move along. So I just
wanted
to let you know that we -- we've gained the benefit of about
$80,000
worth of testing and computer modeling from the DEP in this process
so
far. So we're -- we're moving along pretty good on that one.
Item #14B
L.G. TOURNAMENT BUDGET PLAN OF ACTION - DISCUSSED
The other item that I'd like to bring up -- and I know I
was in the dissenting vote on this -- but I see from the newspaper
last week that the new LG tournament is -- has cut back the use of
the
word Greater Naples or Naples at all.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's not correct.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: It says in the material the Naples,
Marco Island.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah, very small print. And
then I also see in the very next day that $600,000 for the Quest
for
Kids scholarship. I think Quest for Kids is a great program, but I
think there's -- may be some magic to the $600,000. I'd -- I'd
like
this board or someone on this board who voted in the majority to
bring
the issue back to rediscuss exactly what LG is doing with the --
with
the funds.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think you got a valid point
in that it -- part of the agreement was to have Collier's name,
Naples
and Naples, Marco Island, in the name as a title sponsor. And it
was
-- because that's how it was featured on television, on all the
ads,
and that was part of the agreement. So it's -- it's a good point.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I voted with the majority, and
I'd be happy to -- to bring back for a discussion the -- the whole
what's the marketing effort. We need an update anyway.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I just like the -- the picture of
the material changes because although I've been at one of the
presentations, you know, it has changed substantially since we
approved the item. And I would just like to know what those
changes
are, so I agree with that. I -- you know, I'm not so sure the kids
thing is --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. I'd -- I'd just like to
know -- I'd like to know what the changes are. I'd like to know
what
the $600,000 is going to be used for, if the marketing and
promotion
element is going to be as -- as strenuous as we were told it was
going
to be. And -- and I'd like to know how they intend to raise the
six
hundred -- the possible $600,000 for -- for the Quest for Kids.
if
-- if one of the members in the -- on the approval side of that
would
bring that back for discussion, I'd -- I'd appreciate that.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What do I need to do, Mr.
Dotrill, to do that because I'd be happy to -- or can I just --
MR. DORRILL: You don't need to do anything. I'll bring
it back because you're -- you're beyond your reconsideration issue,
but we'll prepare -- I've got two notes here: What is the specific
budget or plan of action for your $600,000 and second to that the -
as I understand it, there's some challenge grant program for the
primary beneficiary this year which is the Quest program or
whatever
the successor to that is and to make doggone sure that we get the
proper credit for the area prior to whatever other main sponsors
that
they have been able to obtain.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Or they can just give us back the
money if they don't want to do that. That's their choice.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I don't have anything else.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Hancock?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'd like to wish three of my
colleagues good luck.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Likewise.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Hac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Nothing else.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Constantine?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a brief comment. We
wrangle and argue and disagree on different issues and -- and --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- from time to time take one
another to task, and I wanted to say to Commissioner Norris, you've
had a busy recess, two big, very big items. Great job as far as
doing
a little negotiating and bringing people to the table on both SSU
and
the Seminole --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And campaigning at the same time.
Item #15A
UPDATE RE FORD MOTOR CAR CO. TRACK SITE - DISCUSSED
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: How are we doing with Ford?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Take the next two weeks off.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do that again.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Not to jump back in. I know I
had nothing else to say, but -- but how are we doing with Ford?
Can
we get an update on that?
MR. DORRILL: Well, the chairman's office also while
negotiating with the Indian tribe and others was --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Got it all together.
MR. DORRILL: -- very instrumental in the trip that we
arranged with the Governor's office. And there are some things
that
they need to do in the interim at that site that would appear to be
allowable without an additional permit, surface water management
permit. But they want to do some things to their current
facilities
that we're going to try and develop and show them an expedited
means
to do.
They also have indicated to us that while we are not
currently scheduled to be eliminated -- and it was one of the main
points that Mr. Russet wanted to make to us -- they now have nine
test
facilities worldwide. They just acquired Mazda Corporation, and
with
that they got a track in Japan, and they had some of their
haughtier
types at the meeting explaining an internal review that they are
involved in worldwide to eliminate from nine down to some number
the
number of facilities that they will keep in the future. And that
will
be complete by the end of the calendar year. And in anticipation
of
that, they're not spending any significant money on expansion for
any
of their facilities until the completion of their report.
But I thought overall the meeting went -- went very
well. I think that we owe a vote of thanks and I have already
corresponded on your behalf to the lieutenant governor who flew in
from Chicago. He left the convention and missed his -- his
nominee's
acceptance speech in order to be there and go to bat for Collier
County in -- in what may be one of the more Republican counties in
the
state. But he looked them dead in the eye and told them that this
was
an issue of statewide importance and that's why the Governor had
asked
him to be there, and he did a fine job.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Is it safe to assume that as
they go through that review process of their nine sites that we
will
remain active and not just leave this one visit?
MR. DORRILL: We -- we have a -- yes, sir. We have a
continuing strategy. And, in fact, I may dispatch some people up
there this time next week to meet with their engineering track
officials to explore what specifically they would like to do to
their
track this year. One of the things they want to do is expand one
of
their metal buildings. When they have up to 300 engineers and
design
people there and it's the middle of the winter and a cold front
comes
through, they -- they don't even have enough room to get all of
their
people who may be at work out there indoors currently. And that's
a
problem to them. So we're -- we're looking at what we can do to
get
them ready for this season and show our ability to deliver on -- on
some of the representations we made.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yeah. I don't think their test track
in Yuma can duplicate our climatic conditions around here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There you go.
MR. DORRILL: We told them that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Anything else, Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir, I don't have anything else.
Item #15B
FDOT CERTIFICATION PILOT PROGRAM - ENDORSED BY BCC
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: Yes, thanks. One small item. The U.S.
Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration sent us
a
letter, me a letter, I received August 12 concerning the Florida
Department of Transportation and the federal transportation asking
if
the county would endorse a certification program under the Uniform
Relocation Assistance Act. It's -- and so we farmed it out to Mr.
Archibald and Mr. Con -- Conrecode to tell us what they thought of
the
transportation issue request that was involved. And -- and they
both
responded back, George Archibald particularly, indicating that in
response to the highway department's question, would the county
endorse this concept of federal-state certification and -- and work
in
cooperation, George indicated that he thought it was commendable.
And my question to the board is that I have prepared a
draft one-sentence letter response saying that the board does
endorse
the program, the certification pilot program. It's a pilot
program,
and I can pass out to you the background information. I've got it
certainly here. But I just thought this might be an easy way for
me
to respond rather than getting the board responding that there is
what
appears to be based on staff's review a program that's okay for the
time being.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Sounds good.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Miss Filson just got back from Utah.
She -- she's going to deliver us now a lengthy report on the
Mormons.
No, not today, Miss Filson?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Any fifth wheel tips?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We're done.
***** Commissioner Constantine moved, seconded by Commissioner
Matthews, and carried unanimously, that the following items under
the
consent agenda be approved and/or adopted: *****
Item #16A1
RESOLUTION 96-379, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60503-038; OWNER OF RECORD - SLOANE R. BARBOUR JR. AND CHERYL
BARBOUR
See Pages
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 96-380, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60502-017; OWNER OF RECORD - THOMAS SANZALONE, ET UX
See Pages
Item #16A3
RESOLUTION 96-381, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60418-044; OWNER OF RECORD - MAURICE TREHBLAY
See Pages
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 96-382, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60318-110; OWNER OF RECORD - IMPERIAL FIVE INC.
See Pages
Item #16A5
RESOLUTION 96-383, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60122-023; OWNER OF RECORD - CATHERINE A. STIHNLA_N
See Pages
Item #16A6
IRREVOCABLE STANDBY LETTER OF CREDIT, IN THE AMOUNT OF $15,480.00,
ACCEPTED AS SECURITY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NO. 59.557 "WILSHIRE
PINES"
LOCATED IN SECTION 31, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST
See Pages
Item #16A7
APPROVAL OF A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO OFFSET EXPENSES INCURRED FOR
CONTRACTED LOT CLEARING IN CODE ENFORCEMENT
Item #16A8
RESOLUTION 96-384, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60503-051; OWNER OF RECORD - RAYMOND A. MILLER
See Pages
Item #16A9
APPROVAL OF THE RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "HUNTINGTON LAKES
UNIT
TWO" - WITH STIPULATIONS, PERFORMANCE BOND & CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
See Pages
Item #16A10
APPROVAL OF THE RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "EDGEWATER ACRES"
Item #16All
RESOLUTION 96-385, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60401-011; OWNER OF RECORD - CATHERINE L. HARRISON
See Pages
Item #16A12
RESOLUTION 96-386, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60401-005; OWNER OF RECORD - STEVEN MILLER & HELENE NAILS
See Pages
Item #16A13 - This item has been continued
Item #16A14
RESOLUTION 96-387, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60322-076; OWNER OF RECORD - ROSE L. CASTEEL
See Pages
Item #16A15
RESOLUTION 96-388, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60202-021; OWNER OF RECORD - BRUCE T. WHITHER & ELSYE K. WHITHER
See Pages
Item #16A16
RESOLUTION 96-389, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60118-099; OWNER OF RECORD - YOUNG ELECTRIC CO., INC.
See Pages
Item #16A17
ACCEPTANCE OF WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR PELICAN HARSH, UNIT
ELEVEN, PHASE 1 - WITH STIPULATIONS
O.R. Book Page
Item #16A18
APPROVAL OF SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR PUBLIC NUISANCE RESOLUTION 96-
288
See Pages
Item #16A19
APPROVAL OF SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR PUBLIC NUISANCE RESOLUTION 96-
287
See Pages
Item #16A20
APPROVAL OF SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR PUBLIC NUISANCE RESOLUTION 96-
249
See Pages
Item #16A21
APPROVAL OF SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR PUBLIC NUISANCE RESOLUTION 96-
161A
See Pages
Item #16A22
RESOLUTION 96-390, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60410-008; OWNER OF RECORD - FELIX LERCH FAMILY TRUST
See Pages
Item #16A23
RESOLUTION 96-391, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60502-128; OWNER OF RECORD - BERT NILE DEEMS & JANET SUE DEEMS
See Pages
Item #16A24
RESOLUTION 96-392, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60506-014; OWNER OF RECORD - NOEL H. WILLIAMS
See Pages
Item #16A25
RESOLUTION 96-393, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60510-019; OWNER OF RECORD - BERNARD DAVID
See Pages
Item #16A26
RESOLUTION 96-394, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60510-020; OWNER OF RECORD - BERNARD DAVID & KARIN DAVID
See Pages
Item #16A27
RESOLUTION 96-395, PROVIDING FOR ASSESSMENT OF LIEN, FOR THE COST
OF
THE ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO.
60510-021; OWNER OF RECORD - BERNARD DAVID & KARIN DAVID
See Pages
Item #16A28 - This item has been deleted
Item #16A29 - This item has been deleted
Item #16A30
APPROVAL OF THE RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "CAMELOT PARK" -
WITH
STIPULATIONS, LETTER OF CREDIT & CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE
AGREEMENT
See Pages
Item #16B1
APPROVAL OF THE STIPULATED ORDER FOR RIGHT-OF-WAY ACQUISITION CASE
NUMBER 95-5071-CA-01-TB (PARCEL NOS. 114 AND 714) FOR VANDERBILT
BEACH
ROAD FOUR LANING IMPROVEMENTS (CIE PROJECT NO. 023)
See Pages
Item #1682
AWARD BID NO. 96-2536 "IHMOKALEE ROAD GROUND MAINTENANCE SERVICES"
TO
COHMERCIAL LAND MAINTENANCE, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $83,562.94
Item #1683 - This item has been deleted
Item #1684
RESOLUTION 96-396 AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION OF ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY,
SIDEWALK, UTILITY, DRAINAGE, MAINTENANCE AND TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION
EASEMENTS AND/OR FEE SIMPLE TITLE FOR GOLDEN GATE BOULEVARD
PROJECT,
CIE NO. 62
See Pages
Item #1685
AUTHORIZATION OF EXPENDITURES FOR OUTSIDE LEGAL COUNSEL FOR LAND
ACQUISITION MATTERS - IN AN A_MOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $50,000.00
Item #1686
PETITION AV-96-016, JULY C. ADARHES, HOLE, HONTES AND ASSOCIATES,
INC.,
AS AGENT FOR OWNER, SAXON MANOR ISLES APARTMENTS LIMITED
PARTNERSHIP,
REQUESTING VACATION OF A UTILITY EASEMENT RECORDED IN O.R. BOOK
1467,
PAGES 1551-1553, INCLUSIVE OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, AND LOCATED IN SECTION 6, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 26
EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
See Pages
Item #1687
AWARD BID NO. 96-2557, FOR THE HAULING AND DISPOSAL OF LIME SLUDGE
FROM
THE REGIONAL WATER TREATMENT PLAN FACILITY, TO J. J. BAKER, INC.,
IN
THE ESTIMATED A_MOUNT OF $120,000.00
Item #1688
APPROVAL OF A SITE AS SURPLUS PROPERTY, DIRECT STAFF TO OFFER
PROPERTY
FOR SALE PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE, AND APPROVAL OF SALE TO
HIGHEST
BIDDER, IF ACCEPTABLE
Item #1689
NOTICES OF CLAIM OF LIEN FOR THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE NOTICE TO PAY
SEWER
IMPACT FEE STATEMENT FOR THE TIMBERWOOD SUBDIVISION
See Pages
Item #16C1
AUTHORIZATION OF BUDGET AMENDMENT TRANSFERRING FUNDS FROM 345
REGIONAL
IMPACT FEE RESERVES TO THE AQUATIC COMPLEX AT GOLDEN GATE COHMUNITY
PARK TO PURCHASE AND INSTALL A 3 METER DIVING BOARD
Item #16C2
APPROVAL OF A LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND NORTH
NAPLES
LITTLE LEAGUE, INC., GIRLS' SOFTBALL COHMITTEE FOR USE OF A PORTION
OF
VETERANS PARK
See Pages
Item #16C3
APPROVAL TO ENTER INTO NEGOTIATIONS WITH COLLIER SPORTS OFFICIALS
ASSOCIATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING SPORTS OFFICIALS FOR
COUNTY
SPONSORED ACTIVITIES
See Pages
Item #16C4 - This item continued to 9/10/96
Item #16D1
AWARD BID NO. 96-2548, ANNUAL GASOLINE AND DIESEL FUEL BID, TO
VARIOUS
VENDORS LISTED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16D2
APPROVAL OF THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO APPROPRIATE THOSE
REVENUES RECEIVED IN EXCESS OF THE CURRENT BUDGET, OFFSETTING
EXPENSES
Item #16D3
APPROVAL OF THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR THE PURCHASE OF
HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE UPGRADES AND MAINTENANCE FOR TELEPHONE
SWITCHES
Item #16D4
RESOLUTION 96-397 AUTHORIZING THE EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS FOR A
LUNCHEON
TO RECOGNIZE RECAP (REDUCE COSTS OF ADMINISTRATIVE PERSONNEL)
EMPLOYEES
See Pages
Item #16El
FORMAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE CONSENT/EMERGENCY ITEMS APPROVED BY THE
COUNTY
MANAGER DURING THE BOARD'S ABSENCE DURING THE PERIOD OF AUGUST 14,
1996
THROUGH AUGUST 30, 1996
Item #16E1A
ACCEPTANCE OF WATER FACILITIES FOR PELICAN MARSH ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
ON-SITE - WITH STIPULATIONS
O.R. Book Page
Item #16E1B
ACCEPTANCE OF WATER FACILITIES FOR ARIELLE AT PELICAN HARSH, PHASE
I -
WITH STIPULATIONS
O.R. Book Page
Item #16E1C
APPROVAL OF A BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF TWO (2)
CENTRAL
LIBRARY'S ENTRANCE DOORS, REINSULATE THE CHILLER PIPES ON THE
SECOND
FLOOR OF THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, PROVIDE A PORTABLE
DEHUHIDIFIER
FOR BUILDING "A", PROVIDE EMERGENCY POWER TO THE SECOND FLOOR OF
THE
ADMINISTRATION, AND CONSTRUCT A SIDEWALK ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE
ELECTIONS BUILDING TO PROVIDE SAFE ACCESS TO THE ADMINISTRATION
BUILDING
Item #16E1D
AWARD BID NO. 96-2564, FOR 100,000 RECYCLING INFORMATION CARDS TO
NAPLES PRINTING - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $5,600.00
Item #16E1E
REJECT BID NO. 96-2562, FOR WELLFIELD MAINTENANCE AND
REHABILITATION
SERVICES AND EXTENSION OF THE CURRENT BID FOR SIXTY DAYS - CURRENT
CONTRACT WITH A_MPS, INC., EXTENDED FOR 60 DAYS
Item #16ELF
APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENT TO INCREASE PURCHASE ORDERS FOR SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION IN FRANCHISE SERVICE AREAS ONE AND TWO, TO
COMPLETE
THE 1996 FISCAL YEAR
Item #16E1G
APPROVAL OF TWO CHANGE ORDERS TO BARANY, SCHHITT, WEAVER &
PARTNERS,
INC., FOR THE GOLDEN GATE ESTATES/CORKSCREW EHS #12 SUBSTATION
See Pages
Item #16E1H
APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENTS 96-551 AND 96-567
Item #16Eli
APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENTS 96-548 AND 96-553
Item #16E1J
APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENT 96-539
Item #16ELK
APPROVAL OF TWO WORK ORDERS FOR CONSTRUCTIBILITY AND ERRORS AND
OMISSIONS CLAIM REVIEWS RELATED TO THE NORTH COUNTY REGIONAL WATER
TREATMENT PLANT
See Pages
Item #16ELL
TRANSFER OF FUNDS TO FUND ROSE ORLANDO'S SICK LEAVE
Item #16ELM
AWARD BID #96-2573, TO GULF SPECIALTIES, FOR THE PURCHASE OF RE-
ENTRY
IDENTIFICATION BADGES, IN THE AMOUNT OF $17,155.00 AND TO LABELS
AND
MORE, FOR THE PURCHASE OF DECALS, IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,614.96
Item #16E2
APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENT 96-564
Item #16G1
CERTIFICATES OF CORRECTION TO THE TAX ROLLS AS PRESENTED BY THE
PROPERTY APPRAISER'S OFFICE
1993 TAX ROLL
NO. DATE
242-244 7/16/96
1994 TAX ROLL
205-207 7/16/96
1995 TAX ROLL
246-248 7/16/96
252 8/13/96
Item #1662
SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR SERVICES OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER
See Pages
Item #1663
SATISFACTION OF CIVIL JUDGMENT LIEN FOR CASE NO. 91-48-CFA
See Pages
Item #1664
CANCELLATION OF LIEN FOR SERVICES OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER FOR CASE
NOS.
94-1699-CFB AND 94-10960-HHA
See Pages
Item #1665
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Item #16H1
RECOHMENDATION THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS SERVE AS THE
LOCAL COORDINATING UNIT OF GOVERNMENT IN THE UNITED STATES
DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE, OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS, GRANTS TO ENCOURAGE ARREST
POLICIES PROGRAM AND ENDORSE THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE GRANT APPLICATION
See Pages
Item #16H2
RECOHMENDATION THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS SERVE AS THE
LOCAL COORDINATING UNIT OF GOVERNMENT AND ENDORSE THE COLLIER
COUNTY
SHERIFF'S OFFICE GRANT APPLICATION FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA,
DEPARTMENT
OF TRANSPORTATION SUBGRANT APPLICATION FOR HIGHWAY SAFETY FUNDS
See Pages
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:35 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
JOHN C. NORRIS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING
BY: Shelly Semmler