BCC Minutes 10/15/1996 R REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 15, 1996
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners
in
and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of
Zoning
Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as
have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building
of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
CHAIRMAN: John C. Norris
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Timothy L. Hancock
Timothy J. Constantine
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
Bettye J. Matthews
ALSO PRESENT: W. Neil Dorrill, County Manager
Mike HcNees, Assistant County Manager
David Weigel, County Attorney
Item #3
AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Call the county commission meeting to
order on the 15th of October 1996. Mr. Dotrill, could you please
lead
us in an invocation and a pledge, please.
MR. DORRILL: Heavenly Father, we -- we thank you this
morning, as we always do, for the opportunities which you have
given
to each one of us, whether as an elected official in the important
weight and decision aspects that that brings to their job or a
member
of the support staff of this county government or a -- a citizen
who
chooses to participate in the government process.
We thank you for the opportunities that you've given us
today, and it's our prayer that you would give us the strength and
the
courage to do what is right and what is honest in your eyes and for
the people of Collier County and always, Father, that you would
bless
our time here together this morning. We pray these things in your
son's holy name. Amen.
(The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: There are a few changes to our agenda
this morning, Mr. Dotrill.
MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir, there are. Good morning,
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. And also for those of you who are
Green
Bay Packer or Atlanta Braves fans --
COMHISSIONER MATTHEWS: Wake up, huh?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Green Bay is somewhat our sister
city after last year, isn't it?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Are you going to be wearing a
hat out here again this year?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, that would be -- that would
be your fine chairman.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, I have three add-on items
this morning. The first one will be 9(B); that's under the county
attorney's report. It's a recommendation that the board consider
the
approval of a special counsel agreement.
Item 9(C) is also an add-on. It's a recommendation that
the board approve and accept a grant of easement for emergency
vehicle
access at Wyndemere.
Item 10(C) under the Board of County Commissioners is a
recommendation to consider a resolution of support for the jail and
detention center referendum.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Who brought that issue forward,
Mist --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I did.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- Mr. Dotrill?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I did.
MR. DORRILL: I'm -- I'm sorry. We usually put those in
parentheses.
Item 8(A)(1) is a request to continue for one week a
item concerning the final plat approval for Hilltop Estates.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Uh-huh.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm just curious. What is
the elevation at Hilltop Estates?
MR. DORRILL: Probably about 10 feet N.G.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's low.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Are we -- are we going to continue
that item?
MR. DORRILL: You -- you're probably going to need to
discuss that because I'm recommending that it be continued. And
Mr. Nelson is here, and he is going to vehemently ob -- object to
that. And -- and I'll explain my rationale in just a moment.
The other -- I -- I have one last-minute continuance
item. I have a request by the Collier County Golf Authority that
was
handed to me on my way up here this morning that the item under the
county attorney's report, I believe 9(A) -- yes, 9(A) be continued
until November the 12th.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Why is that?
MR. DORRILL: They have twofold -- I've -- having just
been handed the letter, I'll tell you exactly what the nature of
their
request is. They've had some unanticipated scheduling conflicts
for
their financial representative, Mr. David Shaw, who could not be
here
today and whose schedule won't allow him to be here until the 12th.
And No. 2 is that the golf authority has yet to receive
the staff report and -- that the commissioners had requested be
prepared with the copies to be forwarded to the golf authority for
review incumbent -- prior to this item being scheduled for today's
hearing.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My recollection was that the
board directed staff to put together an alternative bid as a
courtesy
of the folks who have been through this all the way along the line.
I
think it's right that we go ahead and hear what they have to say.
And
if we need to wait a couple weeks, that's fine; but I hope we won't
wait -- our staff won't wait. And concurrent with them putting
together their information, we can be putting together that bid.
So
if for so -- if everything works out November 12th, great. But if
it
doesn't, we'll be ready to immediately put that bid out. We won't
lose any time in the process. If that's okay with the rest of the
board --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm not exactly sure what you
just requested.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Me neither.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Are you requesting that November
12th is fine, but we're not going to push it beyond that? Is that
what I understood you to say?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. But I'm also saying
don't stop. I thought we had given staff --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Given staff some --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- direction to put together
another bid. I'm saying let's not have them stop their work in the
meantime. Let's make sure --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- they do their work
concurrent.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I feel exactly that way, that --
that I want staff to move forward in putting the proposal together.
I
don't know what we're going to discuss on the 12th, but I -- I
thought
it was pretty clear that -- from Mr. Weigel that we need to rebid
it.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, I -- I had a question about
how this got on the agenda for this week anyway. Why was this even
here to start with, because I -- I thought we had clearly said that
deal is dead? We're moving forward with re -- you know, a whole
new
consideration of this process.
MR. WEIGEL: I -- I'm happy to respond, Commissioner.
The -- looking as close as we could at the minutes available and
direction that we had -- notes that we had from the meeting two
weeks
ago, it said bring it back in two weeks. But there was some
general
direction given to the board -- to the staff, and that was to start
the preparation to do a rebid. I believe Mr. Glass acknowledged
that
a rebid would go out and that Collier Golf Authority would be a
part
-- intended to be a part of that process.
One thing I think that was a little unclear for staff
was that there was some discussion had toward the end of the agenda
item two weeks ago that the board may direct staff, as it prepares
its
rebid, to make some changes from the standard bid procedure which
had
been utilized previously. And the packet that was provided to the
board at board direction since the -- the meeting two weeks ago
provided a history of this particular transaction, which you can
also
look at some of the documents in the agenda.
The -- one of the reasons that we have the a --
documents in the agenda that were there two weeks ago is because
they're so valuable to show the interplay of staff at the Hay 21st
meeting, the responses of Collier Golf Authority in April 17th to
the
original solicitation, and the initial solicitation language
itself.
And staff has -- is inquiring if there are to be any changes in the
new solicitation that's to go out, such as moving from the
previously
practiced 20 percent down payment and tend -- that's tendered with
the
bid.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Can I -- can I -- forgive my
interruption, but I -- but I think as you're talking, what -- what
it
sounds like to me is that we, as a board, have an item to discuss
about the -- the -- the rebid and what its characteristics would be
__
MR. WEIGEL: That, I think, is the essence --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: -- which is separate from the
golf authority. So that even though they're not prepared to go
forward today, we still need to have this item discussed today.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. And I believe that was the essence
of what the board was looking for when it brought back -- brought
this
back today, was to have the -- as much information about it as it
could so that it could make a -- a deter -- determination and
direction for the staff in the prep -- preparation of the rebid to
go
out --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I'd like to go ahead and --
MR. WEIGEL: -- because there may be some changes. We
have perpetuity. We have reverter. We have down payment or
deposit
lang -- language to talk about here.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I think we ought to talk about
that today, and then we'll hear from Collier Golf Authority later
after we've established what the parameters of the rebid would be.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: But it seems to me Mr. Weigel's
talking about the issues we need to include and the new RFP, so --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- I -- I think we need to talk
about it.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: So we can't go forward then.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, the only other item that I
have is a request to withdraw due to a bid protest. CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MR. DORRILL: Item 8(B)(4), it's under public services
-- public works, rather. Excuse me.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
MR. DORRILL: That was the renovation and improvements
at the Marco Island Racquet Center. And the bid protest was timely
and will be evaluated and rescheduled upon completion by the
purchasing director of the bid protest. CHAIRMAN NORRIS: All right.
MR. DORRILL: Back to Item 8(A)(1) for just a moment,
there's been a little confusion on this. I'm going to ask Mr.
Nelson
to come and -- and tell you his side of the story. This was an
item
that was heard by the board several weeks ago. It involved
subdividing two lots and making it into four lots with a little
bisecting dead-end street.
The -- the concern that I had -- the board voted 3 to 2,
I believe, at that time not to approve the subdivision, and it was
on
the consent agenda. It was pulled off of the consent agenda, and
there was some discussion that was held, and -- and people pro and
con
spoke. It's rescheduled today, and my understanding, it's because
of
a -- an interpretation that in the event of a denial of the
subdivision, that you have to conduct a hearing and a concern as to
whether or not an item appearing on the consent agenda but
subsequently pulled and put on the regular agenda is a full notice
of
the hearing.
The concern that I have this morning is that if the
board is going to do anything other than confirm their prior action
as
part of the regular agenda, then you're going to need to follow
your
reconsideration policy that is set by ordinance and that you need
to
follow. In the event that you're going to reconsider the item,
then I
think we need to give proper notice because I don't know, frankly -
_
while Mr. Nelson is here and is prepared to go forward, I don't
know
to what extent some of the people in the neighborhood think that
this
is or is not properly noticed for a reconsideration, if one is
going
to be held.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess I'd like to hear from
Mr. Weigel the explanation on that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And certainly if -- if that were
the case, we would need to get that advice in a more timely fashion
next time.
MR. WEIGEL: I was afraid you'd ask that question.
Looking at this item as it's before you today and looking right
now,
again --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me just ask this
question: Mr. Dotrill, have you had this conversation? Have you
inquired of our legal department the question of whether it's not -
_
whether it's necessary to reconsider, or is that simply your
interpretation?
MR. DORRILL: That's my interpretation having talked to
the planning services director yesterday as to whether or not if --
if
we're going to reconsider this, were we obligated to follow the
reconsideration policy as opposed to just putting it back on the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess, considering what's
required and -- and what's allowed the petitioner in this
circumstance, my first stop would have been at the county
attorney's
office to get an interpretation. And -- and I guess I'm a little
frustrated that here we are; petitioner is here. Mr. Weigel
apparently hasn't heard this question up until now. It seems like
that communication should have been there.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And -- and if I can just add to
that, the initial question, separate from the -- should this be
heard
under reconsideration or not, is can we not have a negative vote on
an
item that's pulled from the consent agenda? I mean, if we did, if
we
-- if that was an effective vote, then -- then this question is
moot. But if that's an ineffective vote, then we need to, either
through reconsideration or some other method, hear this again.
But you -- the board needs to know that those neighbors
who packed this room last time heard about this. When I called
Friday
afternoon and said, Uh-oh, it's back on the agenda again; I don't
know
why. I don't think anything has changed. Let me see what I can
find
out, and spoke to them Monday morning, and they said, Do we have to
be
there? What do we do? So they didn't -- we may have had legal
notice, but they didn't know this was coming back. And they don't
need to have a fast one pulled on them.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm not so sure this needs to
really involve the petitioner at this point. This is an internal
legal question for Mr. Weigel to answer as to whether or not the
vote
taken by the board is, in fact, valid and what we conducted
constitutes a public hearing. Is that the question you're really
asking, Mr. Dotrill?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: That's my question.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That was my question.
MR. DORRILL: The -- that's the legal question. My job
is to interpret the reconsideration policy. And until I can get
those
answers, I was asking that it be continued for one week. Whether
or
not we previously had a properly constituted hearing is something
that
I can't advise you on. That's what David needs to --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Weigel, clear it up for us.
MR. WEIGEL: I think I can respond on -- respond
initially. And I think with a little time, very little time, I can
respond definitively here. I -- I know you want to wrap this up as
quickly as is possible. But based on what's provided in the
executive
summary with this reference to our Land Development Code, Section
3.2.6.3.3, indicating if -- if stated here is correct, that it does
absolutely require that the board hold a hearing if it's taken from
the consent agenda. We obviously have to follow that code. The
question --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: So, Mr. Weigel, when we pull
something from the consent agenda, it's not a public hearing?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can we, like, hear his
complete explanation?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Sorry. I -- I -- that's -- that
is the question, though.
MR. WEIGEL: The question I want to answer to myself and
to you very quickly -- and if someone has a copy of the code, we
can
perhaps do that -- is in holding the public hearing, does it
require
an advertised public hearing, because if there's not the word
"advertised" in there, then it looks like moving to the regular
agenda of the board would be sufficient. Perhaps Mr. Arnold has
something to add.
MR. ARNOLD: For the record, Wayne Arnold, planning
services director. I think the language in question stems from the
language in our subdivision requirements relative to final plat
approvals. And in that discussion it talks about whether or not a
__
a member of the board objects to it, pulls it from the consent
agenda. It says that the item may be discussed or scheduled for
subsequent hearing date, and it says after due notice of the
hearing
to the applicant, the BCC shall hold a hearing on the final
subdivision plat. At that hearing the BCC shall hear
recommendation,
take evidence and testimony in regard to the plat, etc.
And I think my recollection of that last meeting was
that you did take (sic) the motion to deny the project. It failed
__
the motion to deny was approved 3 to 2. Mr. Weigel, subsequent to
that -- that motion, after reviewing that language, indicated that
we
should possibly bring this back at another hearing date to make
sure
that we were covering ourselves. I don't know. I think that is
the
question: whether or not pulling it from consent, placing it on
the
regular agenda, constitutes that due notice of a hearing.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Well --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What you just read, it does
not sound like we followed that procedure.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's what it sounded like.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't have any objection,
if we need to go through the -- the hoops again. I do think you're
right; the public needs to be here. We did that a few weeks ago
with
one other item where -- Livingston Woods where the public wasn't
aware, and we weren't sure. I think we need to do the same thing
here. And I'm sorry you're here and -- and have your --
MR. WEIGEL: Ult -- ultimately, we get to a point where
there's the absolute legal requirement to either advertise,
publicly
notice, or -- or merely, as in this case it appears in a more
restricted manner, make sure that the applicant has due notice as
opposed to the board's broader vision, intention, and determination
to
give opportunity to the public.
Now, I don't see the absolute requirement for the public
to be involved here through an advertisement process, but it's
always
the board's prerogative. And I will explain that to Mr. Nelson --
he
spoke to me briefly before the board meeting -- that legal
requirements are one thing, but the board has a prerogative to --
to
make its agenda work for it and its -- and its constituents as best
it
wishes to.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to
suggest we continue this until we can meet the -- the letter of the
law of what Wayne's just read. I -- I don't think we have now -- I
__
I think, whether it's required or not, it's a good idea for us to
make
sure the neighbors in the area are well noticed and able to
participate in the process.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: In addition, Commissioner
Constantine, I think we need to develop a policy for the county
manager to follow on these same situations in the future because,
obviously, this is not the norm and -- and difficult to deal with.
So
if we could incorporate that in the motion --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: This has happened the first time
in what; six -- six years, seven years? So, I mean, it's -- it's
not
the norm, but it's not normal either.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'd agree with you. You can
give that to the manager as part of the direction.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. So we'll just give direction
then to advertise it as a public hearing and bring it back at some
future date.
MR. DORRILL: Yes. Yes, sir.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Next week?
MR. WEIGEL: I -- I don't see that there's a requirement
to advertise it as a public hearing, but the staff can follow your
directive is what you may have to do. It doesn't look that it's
legally required. There was a re -- requirement of notice to the
applicant which you are, in effect, doing right now. As far as the
public and the legal requirement to communicate with public or '-
or
residents, it doesn't look like there's an advertisement
requirement,
although certainly --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll -- I'll take it upon myself
to -- to go to the neighborhood and let them know, if they're not
paying attention right now, that this will be heard a week from
today.
MR. WEIGEL: I'm beyond recommendation.
MR. DORRILL: And we -- we apologize for the -- the
awkwardness of this. It just -- it hadn't ever happened before,
but
I'll -- I'll assume responsibility for that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Then we'll hear this a week
from today, and we need a motion on the agenda then.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a
motion to approve the agenda and the consent agenda as amended.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Item #4
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 17, 1996, AND BUDGET
MEETING OF
SEPTEMBER 18, 1996 - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
We have some minutes.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion
that we approve the regular meeting minutes of September 17th and
the
budget meeting of September the 18th.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second to
approve these minutes. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Item #5A1
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 19, 1996, AS THE NAPLES BEACH
HOTEL
AND GOLF CLUB DAY - ADOPTED
I have a proclamation here that I would like to read.
It reads: Whereas, the Naples Beach Hotel --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You want Mr. Watkins to come up?
Mr. Watkins is here.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I know he's here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Excuse me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Whereas, the Naples Beach Hotel and
Golf Club, located in Collier County, has been owned and operated
by
the Watkins family since 1946.
And we have a member of the Watkins family here who I'd
like to ask to come forward at this time so that we can get him on
television while I read the balance of this proclamation.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hand me that gavel. I'll
just set it down.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: You need to come up here, Mr. Watkins
MR. WATKINS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- so they can see you on television
there, right -- right back there. Right. Perfect. And --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hi, mom.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: And, whereas, the Naples Beach Hotel
and Golf Club has been a major employer in Collier County for 50
years; and
Whereas, the Naples Beach Hotel and Golf Club has made
many contributions to the citizens and organizations of Collier
County; and
Whereas, the Naples Beach Hotel and Golf Club
consistently represents the best qualities of the business
community
in Collier County; and
Whereas, the Naples Beach Hotel and Golf Club will be
celebrating its 50th anniversary of continuous operation by the
Watkins family on October 19, 1996;
Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that October 19, 1996, be
designated as the Naples Beach Hotel and Golf Club Day. Done and
ordered this 15th day of October, 1996, by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida.
I believe it's correct, Mr. Watkins, is it not, that you
have the oldest existing golf course in the county, although there
was
a -- there was a small golf course previously, but that's no longer
there; is that correct?
MR. WATKINS: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: So your -- your golf course is the
oldest one that's still here.
MR. WATKINS: In the golf capital of the world.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: In the golf capital of the world.
That's right. I'm sorry. I forgot that part.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Columbus played his first --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Anyway --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- round on their course.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Columbus played, yes, when he first
came here and -- and enjoyed it very much.
Board members, I'd like to make a motion that we accept
this proclamation.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second for
acceptance. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
(Applause)
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Have you been there since its
inception, the Beach Club?
MR. WATKINS: My family's been there since then. Thank
you very much.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: If you'd like to say something, get a
little advertising plug in, now's the time.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I want to let people know about
the fund raiser this weekend, what that's going through.
MR. WATKINS: Thank you all very much. We appreciate
it. We -- we view our role in the community certainly in terms of
our
lodging facility and employment, but -- but also trying to make
this
community a better place for people to want to be and -- and live
and
recreate and do our best as a family and -- and -- and have tried
over
the years -- I know my father was a chairperson of the county
commission for a number of years way back when and -- when the
county
seat was down in Everglades City and then when it moved up here to
Naples. So we've tried our best to -- to do the right thing in --
in
the community.
This weekend we are having several events. We'll have a
golf tournament on Friday, which is called the Hickory Stick
Classic,
which will require wooden clubs on two of the holes, and then a
tennis
tournament on Saturday morning, which is called the Woods and
Whites
Tournament, which requires wooden racquets and tennis whites and
white
tennis balls, that sort of thing. And then on Sun -- on Saturday
evening we'll have The Beach Ball, which is our version of a beach
party from 1946, to re-create the -- the year when my grandfather
moved to Naples. And we'll be raising funds from these events for
Cambier Park. We'll be initiating and establishing a junior tennis
league program for Cambier Park's tennis courts and also raising,
hopefully, $50,000 for a new playground in Cambier Park as part of
its
redevelopment. So we hope that we'll have a successful weekend;
we'll
keep that weather away. And we appreciate very much your support,
and
we look forward to working with you in the future. Thank you.
(Applause)
Item #5C1
CHECK FROM TAX COLLECTOR, GUY CARLTON, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$2,071,869.10 -
PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, we have a surprise visit this
morning from our iljustrious tax collector. He's got a little
something he wants to -- to share with us today.
MR. CARLTON: Good morning. For the record I'm Guy
Carlton, your friendly tax collector. Before I give you your
money, I
would like to thank the commissioners for the addition to (C)(1)
and
I'd like to compliment Neil Dotrill and his staff. And -- and what
a
positive thing their joint effort was, ahead of schedule and under
cost. That is great. We appreciated it.
And another thing, when you have your budget meetings
and someone says that maybe I charge too much because I give back
money, I will tell you that 90 percent of what we charge is
regulated
in Tallahassee with no local discretion. So if you could spread
that
word, I'd appreciate it.
With the costs of remodeling -- and we tried to reach a
goal of $2 million. Total fees turned back to taxpayers in Collier
County, this year's $2,284,888.04; the board's share, which is
always
the lion's share, $2,071,869.10. Spend it well.
(Applause)
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Not all --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Two million dollars. I think I
could handle getting a $2 million check.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks, Guy.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: You misspelled my name.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What turned back in the budget
roll, Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What -- what turned back in the
budget roll?
MR. DORRILL: It's a little bit less than this, from
what I understand.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: A little bit less.
MR. DORRILL: So it's -- he met his goal.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Good.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's no surprise.
Item #8A2
CARNIVAL PERMIT 96-4 RE PETITION C-96-4, OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE
CATHOLIC
CHURCH, REQUESTING A PERMIT TO CONDUCT A CARNIVAL FROM NOVEMBER 27
THROUGH DECEMBER 1, 1996, ON THEIR CHURCH GROUNDS LOCATED AT 219
SOUTH
9TH STREET IN IMMOKALEE - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Our next item is Petition
C-96-4.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
make a motion we approve Petition C-96-4.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Do we have any public speakers,
Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Item #SB1
REPORT ON THE RESULTS AND RECOHMENDATIONS OF THE ANNUAL COUNTY-WIDE
TRAFFIC SIGNAL WARRANT STUDIES AND TO REQUEST APPROVAL OF THE
RECOHMENDED INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS - STAFF RECOHMENDATION
APPROVED
Next item, 8(B)(1), a report on countywide traffic
signal warrant studies. Mr. Archibald.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Good morning, board members. For the
record, George Archibald, transportation director. Board members,
Agenda Item 8(B)(1) is the annual report on traffic signal studies
throughout the county, primarily focusing on over 80 intersections
in
the urban area. The results, as outlined in your agenda item,
involve
four categories of signal installations.
The first that I wanted to outline were those that are
warranted based upon primarily safety concerns, and the most
important
of which is the signal at the intersection of U.S. 41 and Pelican
Bay
Boulevard North. That's a project that your staff has been going
after for -- in 1997 and I should mention is a developer
commitment;
so we would expect that both the design and construction would be
subsidized by the developer of Pelican Bay.
There are two others under that same category. They
include some lane and signal improvements at 1-75 and Immokalee
Road,
and that's going to be driven by the FDOT, the Florida Department
of
Transportation, what can be worked out in regards to the signal
design
and also permitting. And keep in mind, one of the concerns that
the
state has expressed at Immokalee Road and 1-75 is the need to close
up
some of the existing median openings. So staff, as it negotiates
with
the state on what type of signal system to provide, will also be
forced into looking at closing some turn lanes and also some median
openings that currently exist there.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And we will be asking the FDOT
share in the funding of those closings?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes, we will. The last one we did at
1-seven -- seventy-five and Pine Ridge. At that location the state
actually did the design and permitting, since it required a federal
permit. And they supplied the materials, and the county did the
installation.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I would assume this would follow suit.
The --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Archibald, when -- when
would you expect agreement on that issue to -- MR. ARCHIBALD: I would hope --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- be accomplished?
MR. ARCHIBALD: -- early in 1997.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Typically, we would be shooting for the
installation, based upon federal permits, by midyear of 1997.
The last item under that category is a signal system at
Immokalee Road and the Greentree Center. We -- we've had a problem
there for over two years. We've been working with the developer,
again, to share in the cost of that. Our hard-nosed position at
that
location is that signal is going to take away capacity and delay
traffic on Immokalee Road. The least that we should expect from
the
developer is a fair share of the cost of both design and
construction.
We're still following through and pursuing that. If we fail at
that, the option that the board has is to go ahead and consider
what
we call median modifications. In this case it would be median
partial
closure, which would take away the exiting movement, northbound
left,
leaving the shopping center. That issue may come back to the board
if, in fact, the staff is unable to return with a contribution
agreement from the developer.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And the developer understands
that is the end option if they do not participate, that that is a
likelihood?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes, they do.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: And you're talking about the
main entrance to Greentree on Immokalee Road, not the -- not the
o~e
that's further to the west?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Again, we're recommending a signal
because we recognize that if we do anything at that location, it's
going to reflect at the intersection with Airport-Pulling Road and
the
Greentree Shopping Center and also Sam's Club. That's another sore
point. We're continuing to look at that location. It may require
some control in the future too.
The next category are new signals that relate to new
construction; and those include projects that are on our new
Vanderbilt Beach Road corridor, on Rattlesnake Hammock, and on 951.
There's a total of five that are listed in your agenda item.
The third category involves school sites. In the
upcoming year we've got two school sites where we're expecting to
enter into agreements with the school board to share in the cost of
signals. The first one would be on Goodlette-Frank Road and 22nd,
and
this would be a signal for the purposes of school hours, to get the
traffic in and out of 22nd only during school hours. That would be
in
the morning and -- and the early afternoon.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's 22nd.
MR. ARCHIBALD: The second location would be on
Immokalee Road at the new high school site. And right now that's
projected probably into the latter part of 1997, but we're
including
it with the expectation that we may do some of that work
concurrently
with the school board and that that work may occur at the very
latter
part of our financial year '96/'97.
The fourth category involves flashing beacons. There's
two locations where we're proposing flashing beacons. One is a
carry-over from last year, and that's at the intersection of State
Road 29 and State Road 82 just north of Immokalee. That one,
again,
is one in which we're asking the state to design, to provide the
materials with the proposal that the county would install, operate,
and maintain. Again, the state has not returned with a plan, but
we
would expect that, again, in early '97 we can get some response
from
the state. They recognize the need, and they're in favor of it.
It's
a matter of them also getting permits and budgeting for that.
The final category involves locations where we would
like to modify the intersection in lieu of putting up a signal
system
because of either spacing controls or because of the very
recognition
that as we put up signals, we end up slowing down traffic; we end
up
delaying traffic on our thoroughfare.
There's two locations where we plan on undertaking what
we call, again, median controls. The first one has been completed,
for all practical purposes, and that's at the intersection of U.S.
41
East and Thomasson Drive. We've gone ahead and initially installed
some traffic-control devices to develop what's called a directional
lane control within the median. That's worked pretty well. We'll
ask
the state to funnel through with some curbing that will make a
physical barrier and reinforce that traffic-control measure at that
location. It should be noted that under the six-lane scenario,
we're
looking at closing that completely and, of course, rerouting the
intersection of Thomasson Drive to Rattlesnake Hammock and the East
Trail.
The last item is Radio Road and Industrial Boulevard,
and that location intersects with Donna Street. Again, instead of
putting in a signal there, we're going to put in some median
controls
that will provide for directional movements only. And what we're
proposing is to limit the northbound left out of Donna. There's no
other alternatives for those movements, and that movement,
apparently
-- from what our studies indicate, if we can restrict that
movement,
we'll improve the safety of that intersection from the -- 75
percent.
Again, all these items that are part of this report are
funded in -- from 313. In addition to the funds for the signal
improvements or the median work, there's also funding and some
participation at the state level in regards to a closed-loop signal
system for this county. And there will be a subsequent report to
the
board to outline not only the status of that study but also the
capacity improvements. And, accordingly, the total dollar amount,
which probably will exceed $5 million and which we're expecting and
requesting the state to include in their work plan. With that, I'll
be
glad to address any questions the board has.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I -- I've got one quick
question. At 951 and Immokalee Road, you're -- you're saying on
here
that -- not warranted at this time and recommending evaluation next
year. But I -- I'm really concerned because we now have got -- we
now
have three schools or going to have three schools in that area, two
of
which already have turn signals operating in school hours or during
school traffic periods and a flashing light at 951 and Immokalee
Road.
I'm wondering if we can have some sort of plan for those half-mile
segments in all directions instead of some lights that operate
sometime and a flashing beacon that operates all the time.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Again, I'd ask the board to consider
that the school signals that we've been installing and operating
are
really an exception to the rule. They're something that we've
done,
from a policy standpoint in the county, to support the safety of
school children and school access.
The problem that we have at Immokalee Road and 951 is --
is weighing the increase in accidents that we would expect versus
that
cost in delay. What we recommend in our report is during our peak
season of 1997, which isn't that far away, that that study may very
well indicate that a signal system of -- of a certain phasing would
be
appropriate. So I would ask the board to consider that option and
recognize that within six months there would be a study; and if so
directed, if it meets our warrant requirements by the county, then
we
would bring that immediately back to the board for funding.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Thank -- thank you. That's --
that's certainly appropriate. It -- it's just -- my concern, with
all
the schools there plus the to-work and home-from traffic is -- is
going to create really rush-hour timing there that's incredible.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Archibald, we currently have
a problem on Pine Ridge Road just east of Airport where the light
is
at the YHCA. Because of that distance, the timing is an issue
there.
Do you see any way, either through these actions or future actions,
that we can resolve that, because, I mean, during the summer we had
some backups, as you have mentioned, to Airport Road. I can only
imagine during season that becoming worse. Are -- is there any
solution in the works for that particular scenario?
MR. ARCHIBALD: No. What we're doing right now is
putting in different signal phasing and timing programs during
different times of the day.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I believe right now that there's special
programs that are running at that location to -- to simply
coordinate
the through movement. The first thing we did when we had that
problem
of the backups into the major intersection of Airport-Pulling and
Pine
Ridge is to go ahead and reduce the time on the side street. What
we
found out was that not only are -- is our through movement a very
large movement during the peak afternoon, but also the southbound
left
turning from Airport onto Pine Ridge is also a very heavy movement.
The combination of those two didn't allow us any phasing that would
provide clearance other than reducing the time. Those new
programs, I
think, have helped. What we may have to do, as an alternate
solution,
would be to carry the six-laning through that intersection.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I realize there are a number
of criteria in order to meet warrants; perhaps the most serious is
the accident history. You and I have had conversations about the
corner of Radio Road and Devonshire and Countryside and that
intersection at -- what -- the only part that meets warrants is the
accident history on that. Can you tell me where we're at with
accident activity currently and what we anticipate doing with that?
MR. ARCHIBALD: One of the problems at that location,
and -- and I'll have to take the blame for it, is that when the
Berkshire development occurred, one of the neighborhood traffic
planning efforts that put in -- were put into that project was to
try
and limit the interface of traffic in the subdivision with traffic
in
the shopping center. So on the very north side there's no
connection
between the exiting roadway and the shopping center.
We think that if we go ahead and provide for some
interconnection by working with the shopping center, then we're
going
to be removing some of the turning movements that are exiting out
onto
Radio Road going to the east and then entering the shopping center
and
conflicting with the exiting movements from Countryside. So we're
looking at that as the first action to take. If that's not
successful, then I think we recognize when we undertake our study
again during the peak season of '97, very likely that we'll also
Come
back to the board with a recommendation to provide a signal. I do
have to indicate, though, that if that's our recommendation, that
those subdivisions that are adjacent, they've made commitments to
subsidize that cost.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Any public speakers?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, you have one. Mr. Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: Good morning, commissioners. For the
record my name is Bruce Anderson. I'm here representing North Bay
Associates. It is an affiliate of the Courtelis Company. They are
the owners of the Pelican Bay Marketplace.
Particularly, I wanted to address myself to the item in
the staff report that calls for a signal at the intersection of
Vanderbilt Beach Road and Hammock Oak Drive. I would -- I would
point
out to you that -- an attachment to the executive summary of all
the
considerations that are listed there for whether a traffic signal
is
warranted, such as minimum vehicle -- vehicular volume,
interruption
of continuous traffic, pedestrian volume, school crossing, and
accident experience. All of those factors are either listed as
"not
applicable" or "no."
I would also point out that it calls for the county to
bear 100 percent of the cost of the signal at that location. Your
adopted access management plan, which is a part of your Land
Development Code, does not call for a signal at this location. We
__
my client presently has underway a signal warrant study for a
Corck~lon
access point that presently exists between the Pelican Bay
Marketplace
and the Pavilion Shopping Center. The cost of a traffic signal at
this location may have to be shared by the owners of the Pelican
Bay
Marketplace and the Pavilion, thereby saving tax dollars.
I would ask the board not to authorize a signal at
Vanderbilt Beach Road and Hammock Oak Drive at this time until a
study
can be presented to you as to the need and the cost-sharing
responsibility to pay for a signal between the marketplace and the
Pavilion.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: I would find it difficult, based
on meetings I've had with Mr. Archibald and your client and
Mr. VanArsdale and citizens in that area, for the county to share
in
the cost of a signal that violates its own access management
guidelines to a severe degree. The proximity of that intersection
to
the proximity of Vanderbilt Beach Road and U.S. 41, that distance
is
-- is minimal at best. We just discussed the timing issue problem
at
the YMCA at Pine Ridge and Airport. There's a greater distance
between those two signals than the one you are proposing, or the
traffic signal they propose, and the one on 41. If we put that
signal
in, we preclude a future signal at Hammock Oak where the build-up
population of Pelican Bay and the adjacent community to the north
that
uses that intersection are going to need to get out on that road.
So
it's -- it's not -- to me it's not a -- a -- you know, do we do one
and save a few dollars now, or do we do the other and spend more
money
but a question of long term; what's in the best interest of the
people
who live and shop in that area. And I -- I can't see my way clear,
based on the information Mr. Archibald's presented to me
individually,
to stop this in lieu of what the Courtelis Company is doing.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hancock, you
make a -- a very logical argument. Let me ask two questions: One,
I
haven't had the benefit of the -- knowing those distances at all,
if
-- if you'd share the distance with us. And also, why are we
approving -- if, as Mr. Anderson has pointed out, that either "no"
or
"not applicable" has been given to each of the criteria here, why,
then, are we suggesting we put that in now? MR. ANDERSON: Yes, sir.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I think the real issue that I see is --
is the implications for access management. Currently the four-
laning
project is proceeding, and as part of the four-laning of that
section
of roadway that extends about a quarter of a mile to the west of
U.S.
41, we're going to end up changing traffic patterns. And part of
the
change in the traffic patterns is recognizing that currently -- or
we
used to have a two-lane roadway where there was access in all
directions. Now we're going to a four-lane divided roadway where
we're controlling that access. And part of what we're doing is
forcing movements to the intersection of Hammock Oak and Vanderbilt
Beach Road. We're not only forcing the movements on the main
thoroughfare, we're also forcing the movements in the shopping
center. And, also, we would expect a substantial increase in
traffic
on Hammock Oak as a result of people in Pelican Bay having access
to a
signal that provides for safe turning movements.
So your staff included in that project a signal because
of the changes that are coming about, not only in regards to the
physical condition of the intersection, but also because of our
expectations of changes in travel movements. Once we put in a
signal,
in fact, that's going to attract people that are having a difficult
time right now.
In regards to the second question, I need to advise the
board that Mr. Anderson has provided letters to the county to
indicate
that his client, the Marketplace Shopping Center on the south side,
may, in fact, have some vested rights to -- not only access to the
new
roadway, but also may have vested rights to providing a
intersection
at some future point in time. Your staff is in the process of
providing a report that will be made to the board very soon; I
would
like to think the very first part of November. And that report
will
indicate that although when you take a look at the activity center
concept -- and keep in mind, everything that we're talking about is
within the U.S. 41/Vanderbilt Beach Road activity center. We're
trying to do things a little different there. And our
recommendation
at the staff level most likely will be to put the burden on the
developers there to prove, one, that the signal system will provide
some function at the proposed location that Mr. Anderson is
proposing. And, again, that distance is about 450 feet to the west
of
U.S. 41, a very short distance. But there's been some studies done
by
the private sector that would indicate that a signal could be
designed
and could be phased to work there. But keep in mind, I think that
control and that decision should be one that would remain with the
county and remain with the board.
So the staff will be coming back to the board with a
response and report in regards to Mr. Anderson's request. And for
the
interim I would recommend that the staff be directed to proceed
with
the construction as approved, but give Mr. Anderson the
consideration
of doing a design and a study that may or may not show the pros and
cons of a interim signal at the shopping center location.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: May I say a couple more things here?
One, I just remind you there's no objective justification for the
signal at this location. Number two, part of our study will be the
timing and phasing of the -- of the light. Number three, the
access
management plan that you've adopted for this activity center calls
for
full access between those two shopping centers, and it -- and it
would
likely be safer to have it signalized rather than fully opened.
And
-- and lastly, what's the harm in -- in delaying this by a month
or
so? Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: That's all, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I make a motion that we approve
staff recommendation regarding the signal warrant study.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Including Mr. Archibald's
comments on the record?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Thank you, Mr. Archibald.
Item #8B2
CONTRACT FOR MEDIAN AND SELECTED PUBLIC AREA GROUNDS MAINTENANCE
FOR
THE LELY GOLF ESTATES BEAUTIFICATION M.S.T.U.; BID NO. 96-2569 TO
COMMERCIAL LAND MAINTENANCE, INC. IN THE ANNUAL AMOUNT OF
$36,544.80 -
STAFF DIRECTED TO RE-BID CONTRACT
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Next item, Mr. Chairman, is
just approving a bid.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Again, this is a bid for an MSTU, a
beautification district, Item 8(B)(2), Lely Golf Estates
Beautification District.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Board members, Agenda Item 8(B)(2) is a
recommendation for a contract award for median maintenance on St.
Andtaws, roughly about three-quarters of a mile of median
maintenance. And it's in accordance with the Lely Golf Estates
Beautification Municipal Services Taxing Unit, and it's in
accordance
with Bid No. 96-2565. And, unfortunately, there's some issues
here,
and I need to just review those with the board very quickly.
There were four bids that were received by the county
that did, in fact, cover the work at hand. The low bid that was
submitted was submitted by Rae's Greenspace (sic) in the amount of
$25,245.48. This bid for a larger amount of median work is
actually a
few hundred dollars less than the current contract that Rae's
Greenspace has with the county today. Unfortunately, the decision
of
both the staff and the beautification committee was to go ahead and
terminate that contract and rabid the service. And, again, the low
bid by Rae's Greenspace was initially an awfully good bid.
Unfortunately, in the bid package that was submitted, there were a
number of items that were not included by Rae's Greenspace, and
those
items that were not included involved the bidder's license,
involved
the bidder's work history, and involved some answers to questions
that, unfortunately, were requirements of the bid. So from the
staff's perspective, if -- the bid specifications are very direct
and
indicate if that information is not provided, then, in fact, that
bid
will have to be rejected.
Accordingly, the staff is indicating and reporting to
the board that that low bid is considered nonresponsive; and
accordingly your staff would recommend going to the second low bid,
which was submitted by Commercial Land Maintenance, a firm that's
been
doing work in the county for a number of years that has a number of
our medians under contract and has a very good record. Their bid,
unfortunately, is $36,544.80 which, unfortunately, is nearly
$10,000
greater than the low bid. But, again, because of irregularities in
the bid submitted by Rae's Greenspace, your staff is having to
recommend the second low bid.
The beautification committee did review this, and they
wanted to recommend to the board that, in fact, the irregularities
were just that. And they wanted to recommend that those
regularities
-- irregularities be waived and that the board consider a contract
with Rae's Greenspace. Your staff still is of the opinion that
that
bid that was submitted was, in fact, nonresponsive and should be
rejected. So we're creating that old dilemma of the low bid/second
low bid scenario for the board to consider.
Again, you've got the staff's recommendation, and you've
got the recommendation of the committee. There's probably a third
option that the board has, if they may want to consider it; and
that
third option is, of course, to reject all bids and rebid this
project
again. In fact, those are the three options that staff presents to
the board for its consideration.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Archibald, if Rae's Greenscape has
the contract today and the work is satisfactory, did they offer any
explanation of why they didn't make a responsive bid?
MR. ARCHIBALD: It was my understanding that they put
their back -- their -- their bid package together very quickly.
And
they were of the opinion that, one, they didn't either have the
time
to submit that information; or two, that information was already on
file, neither of which are acceptable as you read the bid
specifications.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: May I ask the question -- the
final comment in -- in the county staff recommendation says, This
recommendation may also represent the lowest cost since both staff
and
consultant time and administering the project were estimated to be
lower with Commercial Land Maintenance v. Rae's Greenscapes (sic).
You -- perhaps in your explanation that was there, but I -- I -- I
missed it. Why -- why do we anticipate those costs to be lower?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Okay. There -- there -- there's two
items, when you take a look at their bid, that do reflect a big
question on the part of staff. One of the items is on your page 5.
I
don't think there's any need to look it, but it -- it involves the
annual tree trimming. On page 5 all of the bidders submitted bids
that ran from over 3,000 to over 16,000 dollars for that work item.
Rae's Greenspace submitted a bid of $299. So we recognize that,
although that's a very small item, it does represent a discrepancy
that may be reflected elsewhere in their real cost to do the work.
Another item is on --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Suggesting that we would have
to do the work instead or -- MR. ARCHIBALD: No, suggesting that, very likely, that
cost could increase.
Another item is on page 10 where, if we add mowing and
edging functions, typically the cost is in terms of pennies per
square
yard; their price is 21 cents per square foot. So there's another
area where the bid information that was included in the Rae
Greenspace
(sic) bid package may create a problem for both the county and the
contractor in the future.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess perhaps after four
years on the board, I shouldn't be as naive; but if -- if we enter
on
-- enter into a contract and someone says they'll trim trees for
$299, why would we go back later and correct that? If they had an
opportunity to bid whatever they wanted, if they take a loss, why
would we correct that and pay them later -- more later?
MR. ARCHIBALD: We -- we would not. And, again, I bring
out those two issues in that if the board does consider the
proposal
by Rae's Greenspace, that, in fact, staff be given some latitude to
confirm and solidify those numbers in the favor of the
beautification
committee.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Is there anyone here from the
beautification committee that can speak on this item?
MR. HcNEES: You have one registered speaker, a Charles
Buckley.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, let's have the public speaker
come forward then.
MR. BUCKLEY: Mr. Chairman, members of the board, good
morning. My name is Charles Buckley. I'm the vice-president,
operations officer, and the licensee holder for Commercial Land
Maintenance, Incorporated. We've been doing business in Collier
County for approximately eight years. We've been doing work for
Collier County government for approximately five years. I run a
very
successful business because I pay attention to detail, not only in
paperwork, but into the service that we provide our customers.
Dealing with this bid, there was -- a prebid conference
was held on August 14th. I was the only landscape contractor to
attend that conference. I believe that if you have a concern and
have
a desire to provide a service, you should obtain as much
information
as you can about the contract that you're about -- about to enter
into. This particular prebid conference was very important because
it
included that when we're -- we were to put our numbers together, we
were to anticipate that all the islands would be completely
landscaped; that's what my numbers are based on. Currently eight
of
those islands are not landscaped; so my price is going to be
reduced a
portion until those islands are finished and landscaped.
The only other thing I would bring up is that the items
about the contractor's license and a -- a -- a list of projects
similar in scope to be included. It says specifically "If the
documentation noted above is not submitted with the bid proposal,
such
bid will not be considered." I don't see where there's any room
for
much interpretation there. You either submit it or you don't. And
if
you don't submit it, your bid is thrown out. Any questions?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I got to agree with the
gentleman. If -- if we send out a -- a request for bids and it has
some particular rules and regulations in it and they're not
followed,
as much as I'm sure the beautification committee would like to save
a
buck, it appears that Rae's did not follow the criteria required.
I
think -- I think he's right; I don't know how much room we have to
wiggle there. It's pretty black and white.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, the choice here for the board
today is whether to rebid or to award the contract to the lowest
responsive bidder so --
MR. BUCKLEY: My -- my only -- I'm sorry, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, sir.
MR. BUCKLEY: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: If the two bids were a grand or
two grand apart, I -- I can see throwing out the first one and
going
to the second. But we're dealing with a -- with a --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Substantial.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- a -- you know, 33 percent
increase, roughly, in the cost. And I think we need to tread
cautiously on that. My feeling is a -- a rebid may be necessary
here
to make sure we are getting the best cost for the residents because
of
the -- the spread between the first and second bid. And if it
shows
up again, so be it. But my feeling is a rebid is really in the
residents' best interest rather than just slapping an $11,000
increase.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'd like to see it rebid merely
because we have an $11,000 difference between the two; and the --
the
reasons for declaring Rae's nonresponsive are reasons that, from
what
I've heard, don't really affect the quality of the bid. It's --
it's
background information.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If the majority of the board
wants to rebid, I -- I won't vote against that; but I -- I guess I
feel bad. We put out a -- there's not only the effort of all the
private entities who've responded, but staff time and the -- and
the
expense of administering a bid and so on. And I hate to do that
again
when there were one, two, three, four others who were able to
provide
the information.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. We -- we have done it in
the past when there was a jump in -- in cost.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: As I said, I didn't -- if the
majority of the board wants to do that, I won't argue. But I -- I
just --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We need a motion.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- want to note that.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm going to move that we rebid
the maintenance contract for the public area grounds maintenance
for
Lely Golf Estates Beautification HSTU.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second to
rebid. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
MR. ARCHIBALD: Okay.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Archibald.
Item #883
RESOLUTION 96-472 AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION BY GIFT, PURCHASE OR
CONDEMNATION OF A TEMPORARY DRAINAGE EASEMENT TO COMPLETE THE
NAPLES
PARK AREA DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT MUNICIPAL SERVICE BENEFIT UNIT
PROJECT
AND APPROVE APPRAISAL CONTRACT WITH COAST APPRAISAL SERVICES -
ADOPTED
WITH ALL FOUR RECOHMENDATIONS AND STAFF DIRECTED TO HELP COLLIER
ENTERPRISE OBTAIN DECLARATORY STATEMENT FROM SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT
Next, Item 8(B)(3), a recommendation that the board
adopt a resolution authorizing the acquisition by gift, purchase,
or
condemnation of a temporary drainage easement.
MR. GONZALEZ: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Adolfo Gonzalez, capital projects management director.
This
item is to request that you --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah.
MR. GONZALEZ: -- acquire by gift, purchase, or
condemnation --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Anything unusual, strange, or
fantastic about this, Mr. Gonzalez?
MR. GONZALEZ: We are asking that you waive some of the
purchasing policies regarding acquire -- getting an appraiser on
board
as quickly as possible to --
COHHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. GONZALEZ: -- take on this property.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. That would be Item No. 3
under staff recommendation?
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, sir.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let's go to the public speakers.
MR. HcNEES: You do have one registered speaker, Bruce
Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: I just felt you had too short an agenda
today.
Good morning. For the record my name is Bruce Anderson.
I want to present an informational item on behalf of Collier
Enterprises, which is the owner of the property which is proposed
and
which is the subject of -- of this resolution. They are willing to
negotiate the terms of an easement after the South Florida Water
Management District issues a declaratory statement that Collier
Enterprises will not have to provide pretreatment on its property
of
surface water and stormwater runoff from Naples Park before
discharging it into the Cocohatchee River.
As I'm sure you know, the Cocohatchee River was recently
designated, or portions of it anyway, as an outstanding Florida
water
which requires a higher degree of pretreatment of runoff before
it's
discharged into the river. Collier Enterprises has previously
received a letter from the head of the water management district's
Fort Myers office that it would not have to provide pretreatment
for
Naples Park drainage, and it was on the basis of that letter that
Collier Enterprises did not object to designating the Cocohatchee
River as an outstanding Florida water.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Our -- our issue here today is whether
or not we're going to acquire some easements. Are you going to be
able to relate what you're talking about to easements?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I hope so because that's what we're
talking about.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. I -- I -- at the end of July
Collier Enterprises did file for the declaratory statement. They
anticipate receiving a response on that in the next 30 days. Any
help
that this commission or the staff can provide in getting the water
management district to issue the expected declaratory statement
sooner
rather than later would be appreciated and would expedite
negotiations
for the temporary drainage easement.
Our preference would be that you not adopt this
resolution today in order to keep the pressure on the water
management
district to issue a timely response. We do have no objection --
have
no objection to you declaring an emergency and hiring an appraiser.
Thank you.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Anderson, has our staff been
helpful to date in this area?
MR. ANDERSON: I don't know the full background on that.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. The reason I ask is the
Naples Park drainage system begins construction today. I
understand
the position of Collier Enterprises, and in no way do I want to
harm
or cause something upon Collier Enterprises that really isn't of
their
doing. By the same token, we've begun construction on a project
that
we have a time line on.
I assume, Mr. Gonzalez, the reason this is in front of
us today with an -- a request to declare an emergency is because we
don't have a lot of time to get this in place; is that true?
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, that is correct. In fact, you're
right; Mr. Anderson's clients have been most responsive with it.
We
have -- have had continuing conversations with them for quite some
time. Unfortunately, this grandfathering issue has caused a delay
in,
as Mr. Anderson pointed out, granting the declaratory statement for
Collier Enterprises and also granting the permit extension on our
Naples Park permit, which was to have been approved September, a
couple of days after your board action for doing the contract.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let me try this approach. I'm
going to make a motion -- motion that we approve staff
recommendation,
including all four listed on page 2 of our executive summary, with
an
addition that we direct our staff to assist Collier Enterprises in
getting the decla -- declaratory statement from the South Florida
Water Management District to the extent that it is -- is
reasonable.
Obviously, we're not going to become the sole advocate; but I think
a
letter from -- from the county saying that we feel this is -- is
advantageous to our project and -- and so forth is -- is warranted.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Chairman, please.
Mr. Weigel, do we have to separately declare an emer -- an
emergency?
MR. WEIGEL: I think that your statement of the record
as a board as well as -- you -- you can do all of these things in
following the recommendation of the -- of the executive summary.
I appreciate your comment and addition there. And in
regard to a letter that would issue from the county, we will
determine
-- any further direction you give us right now -- as to who may
best
send that letter, whether it be from pure administrative office,
the
legal office. May we reserve unto ourselves potentially composing
a
letter from the chairman in this regard?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And I would ask that that -- that
direction also be given; and I don't know where it should come from
best. But these are two separate items that, in essence, the South
Florida Water Management District is kind of holding one hostage
while
the others need something. And it -- we need to resolve that and
do
it collectively.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A government agency holding
somebody hostage.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I know. It's an unusual thought.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No kidding.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion, please.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That was the motion.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. That was a second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We had one opposed?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Consistency.
Item #8C1
LIBRARY MASTER PLAN CONCEPT - APPROVED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Next, Item 8(C)(1).
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's amazing.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: The library master plan.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
make a motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let's -- let's have Mr. Jones come up
and answer one question on the record, though.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What's your favorite color?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No, not that. Mr. Jones, we're going
to ask you one question on the record here.
MR. JONES: After I've prepared this?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yes. Yes, sir, after you've prepared
that -- that nice --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You were so persuasive --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- board.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- at the budget hearings
that --
MR. JONES: Don Jones, public library.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: The question is in the public's mind
there's been some misconception bandied about as to whether this
master plan, if approved, will result in the elimination of some or
all of the branch libraries. And I'd like for you to just clear
the
record up for us on that.
MR. JONES: At present no plans exist to close, change,
move. We may renovate existing libraries.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: But this is not going to eliminate
branches.
MR. JONES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We're just --
MR. JONES: No, sir. This addressed the if and when, if
the population grows and if we have to build, how we're going to
build, not -- it doesn't deal at all with what we have.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I assume renovation would
be an improvement to the existing branches rather than detrimental
to
them. No, I'm -- I'm serious.
MR. JONES: I assume so, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I ask that only because of
the -- the exact thing you raise, and that is there are some who
are
worrying that this is going to mean an abandonment of the current
libraries. And I -- I don't think that's the intent at all.
MR. JONES: No. No, sir.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I would -- I would assume, as
well, that expansion, renovation -- if we adopt this -- this
program
today, that existing branch libraries could well be improved to the
point of being a regional library.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. We have a motion. Is there a
second?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I seconded, yes.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: You'll second it again?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- I'll do it again.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. We have a motion and a
resecond. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Thank you for that brilliant presentation. We -- we
appreciate it.
MR. JONES: Would you like the cards I have prepared?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Please, I -- I would ask the
Library Advisory Board take this, not as a hasty approach, but the
fact that you folks have done your homework and communicated with
US
very effectively and the public effectively, and this is a great
idea.
MR. JONES: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What? Don't do it.
Item #8El
RESOLUTION 96-473 REQUESTING THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER AND
WASTEWATER
AUTHOIRTY TO RECONSIDERAN APPLICATION BY EAGLE CREEK UTILITY II,
INC.,
FOR A 1995 PRICE INDEX RATE INCREASE IN ITS WASTEWATER RATES -
ADOPTED;
UTILITY AUTHORITY DIRECTED TO REVIEW THE 1995 RATE ADJUSTMENT
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Next item is 8(E)(1), request
for board to adopt the accompanying resolution requesting Collier
County Water and Wastewater Authority to reconsider an application
by
Eagle Creek Utility to -- for a 1995 price index rate increase in
its
wastewater rates.
First question, Mr. McNees, is this -- is this not more
appropriately now going to the utility authority?
MR. McNEES: I believe that's --
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's where it's been.
MR. McNEES: -- where it is.
MR. WALLACE: Good day, Mr. Chairman. For the record,
Bleu Wallace, utility regulation coordinator. Item 8(E)(1) is a --
is
in response to Eagle Creek Utility's public petition of September
17th
whereas they missed the boat on the 1995 price index whenever they
applied to the Public Service Commission after Collier County
resumed
jurisdiction. We're bringing that back to you now.
The county attorney's office has reviewed the ordinance
and feel that the -- the -- Ordinance 96-6 is broad enough; it
allows
the board to intervene at any moment in any action before the
authority and in this case requests the authority to reconsider the
1995 index application of Eagle Creek. And the accompanying
resolution provides specific parameters to allow the authority to
reconsider and do whatever's necessary to accommodate Eagle Creek.
I do -- I received a letter by fax this morning from
Mr. Siesky, that presented the public petition, whereas he does
Concur
with staff's recommendation to the board. And I have a letter here
that we can put -- place in the record.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd just like to know if the --
if -- we don't have a copy of Ordinance 96-6 in our packet. And my
question was, does the county attorney agree with that
interpretation,
that it's broad enough for us to intervene and to take the action
proposed?
MR. WEIGEL: Is -- yes, on both counts. You wouldn't
want that ordinance in your packets because it's so big, but --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
MR. WEIGEL: -- the -- the fact is -- is that this is
mere -- this resolution is merely a request to the authority. And
that -- and that authority, in this board, is clearly provided for
in
the Ordinance 96-6.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Public speakers?
MR. McNEES: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm going to move that we approve
staff recommendation and direct the utility authority to review the
1995 rate adjustment.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye. I'm feeling contrary
all of a sudden.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Wallace.
Item #9A
PROPOSED AGREEMENT FOR THE SALE OF THAT REAL PROPERTY F/K/A THE
LANDFILL EXPANSION PROPERTY TO COLLIER GOLF AUTHORITY, INC. - STAFF
DIRECTED TO RE-BID THE SALE OF THE PROPERTY WITH STIPULATIONS
9(A), report to the board of commissioners on the
proposed agreement for sale of surplus real property.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: How real a property?
VOICE: (Inaudible)
MR. WEIGEL: Not yet.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay. Artificial property.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. As mentioned at the beginning
of our public meeting today, this matter was directed two weeks ago
to
be brought back to the board with staff having provided to the
Board
of County Commissioners information concerning previous sale of
property that had been declared surplus by the county as well as
Some
background information and documents concerning this particular
sale.
Included in the packet provided to the board was a copy of
advertisement. And within the agenda packet itself is the agenda
executive summary from May 21st that re -- provided a staff report
to
the board as well as correspondence from Collier Golf Authority
dated
April 17th concerning this particular bid response.
And I think, as I mentioned, staff is before you today
to look to see if there are any further instructions concerning the
resolicitation for bid for the potential sale of the landfill
expansion property.
MS. TAYLOR: Good day, Sandra Taylor for real property.
I do have copies in the packets that were dated last Tuesday, if
anybody needs them.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- I guess I'll -- I'll open up
with a fundamental question, and that is as we're deciding what the
parameters of the rebid should be, you won't be surprised to -- I
don't think -- to hear me ask if it's appropriate for us to -- to
even
put this property out for sale until we have gotten further along
in
the landfill siting process and know what effect the sale of this
property might have on the ability to permit a -- a future landfill
site.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And you won't be surprised to
hear my response which is, first of all, we've answered that
question
at least three times in the past and that the board has made, on at
least three occasions in the past, a commitment not to expand on
this
property. And if we're not going to expand the landfill onto this
property, we don't need to pretend we're going to hang onto it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Moving right along, the specific
direction on this today is to more or less accept the staff
recommendation on this item?
MS. TAYLOR: Well, what was provided in the October 8th
packet -- we can start with the advertisement that was placed in
the
Naples Daily News and make changes to that.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Right.
MS. TAYLOR: Or I did give you a, quote,
fill-in-the-blank form that we can go per item.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MS. TAYLOR: And you can direct staff to do whatever.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I'm just interested in hearing
from the public on this subject.
MR. HcNEES: We have two speakers.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can we keep it to the topic
at hand? And that is what we're going to put in the bid, not
substance of --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- or besides that.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: The board has made -- and -- and,
Commissioner Hac'Kie, you voiced it several times, that the board
made
a policy decision that we would not expand the landfill onto this
acreage. And unless there is a motion out there to change that
policy, the -- I think you have to accept that as a given.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I think that the -- the issue,
though, is when I -- when I nodded in support of that policy, I
didn't
have all the information then that I have today. And I think some
of
the speakers today might provide us, I hope, some of the
information
that -- that I have acquired on my own that affects the -- the
reasonableness of that decision.
And -- and, yes, we have -- and I -- I do agree that we
have all acknowledged previously that we do not want to expand the
landfill in its present site. I think, however, that it's incumbent
the board to get all the information possible before we make a
decision to sell that property. And, frankly, I've been getting
information lately that I hadn't previously had. And so I would
encourage you to hear that so that you can, likewise, carefully
consider, you know, a -- a -- the decision that's as important as
this
one is.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. We --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, I don't --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We need --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't know if that's the
agenda item, though.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yeah. The -- that is not the agenda
item. And -- and if -- if we're to reopen the subject of -- of
whether or not we're going to even consider this, then -- then we
should put that on a future agenda and -- and discuss it, if that's
the -- the desire of the board.
The -- the agenda item today is simply what are we going
to do with this bid. Are we going to award it or rebid it or -- or
__
or what? That's a very narrow question.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: But the "or what," Hr. Chairman,
it might be "or are we going to not submit it at all?" I mean,
that's
the "or what." Are we going to change it? Are we going to send
it
out the way we did the first time, or should we perhaps not send
out
this request for bid?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hac'Kie, I -- I
certainly appreciate and respect your willingness to stick to your
guns on an issue as just demonstrated by my vote on the Naples Park
image -- issue. I continue to vote consistently on that; however,
you'll note, I did not sit and argue all the merits again and again
and again. The last several times the Naples Park issue has come,
I
voted my conscience. However, I've had some respect that the rest
of
the board has made a decision on that issue, and I've simply stuck
to
my opinion. And -- and I think there comes a point where we need
to
ask you to do the same. I understand we have a disagreement on
this.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Sure.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: But the board has set a
direction. And -- and if you want to bring that up as a separate
agenda item on some future thing to try to change that direction,
that's fine. But today's agenda item is dealing specifically with
the
bid for this property and how -- how we want to go about that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Can we hear the public speakers,
please.
MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir. There are two: Mr. Priddy and
Ms. Passidomo.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: As you may have noticed, Mr. Priddy,
the --
MR. PRIDDY: I'll -- I'll stick to the subject. For the
record, Russell Priddy. I would -- would caution you that this,
perhaps, is not excess land and maybe should not be bid again.
Sitting on your Planning Commission for the last four years,
recently
we've -- the county has had a need to use some of this land for --
for
some other purpose. There may be some public good for the rest of
this land other than a landfill, and -- and we're not here to talk
about the landfill. We may need, you know, expansion of some other
services for the county.
I do not feel like it is in the best interest of the
citizens of the county for -- for you all to get rid of this land
that
we already own and -- at perhaps cheaper prices than what we might
be
able to buy lands for other public uses in the -- in the future.
So I
would ask you not to put out for bid the -- the sale of this land
and
for us to keep this land for other uses in -- in the county.
Whether or not, you know, a golf course goes there or
whether we need to steer a golf course, you know, some -- somewhere
else to help us control densities elsewhere in the -- in the county
is
a -- is another subject. But I -- I submit to you that -- that, in
fact, this land is not excess land. Granted, we may never use it
for
a landfill, but we may need it for other public benefit.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Priddy, can you give me an
idea of those uses?
MR. PRIDDY: Well, we might -- might need to ex --
expand the -- the county barn again in -- in ten years. We may
need
water plants, expansion of sewer plants. We may need to relocate
dog
pounds, just any number of things. We may -- may need a county
park.
You know, there's -- there's just any number of -- of things that
that
land can be used for, and -- and certainly there's no real burning
desire from -- from the public to -- to get it out of the ownership
of
-- of the county. I mean, it's not like we're desperate for those
$4,000 per acre that we might -- you know, might get out of the --
the
property. And I just feel that it would be a -- irregardless of --
of
the -- the future, you know, use for it that the county keep it.
Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Passidomo.
MS. PASSIDOMO: Morning, Commissioners. My name is
Kathleen Passidomo. I represent the Collier family; the Lipman
family; the Brown family; the Turner family; Florida Citrus Growers
Association, which is a cooperative of many small growers in
Collier
County --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Excuse me, Ms. Passidomo.
MS. PASSIDOMO: I am going to stick to the subject.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
MS. PASSIDOMO: But I did want to tell you who I
represent --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
MS. PASSIDOMO: -- because some people think I don't
have clients.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, you certainly put that to rest.
MS. PASSIDOMO: Yes. I will stick to the subject. I,
again, will -- would echo Mr. Priddy's words, which is you really
need
to look at the wisdom in selling this property. But I also looked
at
the details contained in your packet, and I'm a very -- I'm
concerned
about it. The language as proposed by the golf authority in -- the
perpetuity language is going to put you in a real box.
The original bid specs provided that the land was going
to be held as a golf course in perpetuity. But it came back in an
offer to purchase and in a letter from the petitioner's attorney
basically indicating that, yeah, but that's only for three years or
until the bonds expire. Now, the bonds are going to be in place
from
3 to up to 20 years. And if this project does not succeed, then
your
perpetuity language is void and they can sell it. Now, they bought
it
at $4,000 an acre. And I have a lot of developer clients, and they
would love to buy development land at $4,000 an acre.
If you do decide to rebid it -- and, again, I don't
think that's a good idea. But I caution you not to put a provision
in
there allowing it to -- the -- that perpetuity provision to be boid
__
void because the purpose of this is county land for a golf course,
if
you decide to do that.
The -- the -- there was a -- a discussion about a
reverter clause. I think that's appropriate. Again, you're not
selling this land for its fair market value; it is under market
value. I went to the Industrial Development Authority meeting, and
one of the -- one of the salient -- one of the big points that the
bond representative had was that they were buying the land so
cheaply
that it could -- you know, they were trying to say that it was
going
to work. So you're selling this land very cheap. And if you -- if
you'll -- if -- if it doesn't work and it gets sold for commercial,
the county is going to look pretty foolish. So I -- I caution you
all
not to do that.
Again, I -- I'm asking if -- if the board would consider
revisiting the subject completely. There is no sense of urgency
here. You don't have to sell the land. The golf course authority
__
and we -- we -- we do support them in -- in their efforts, so this
is
not anything against the golf authority. But they've been waiting
for
ten years to do this, and another six, eight months isn't going to
hurt them. And -- and so we're asking you to revisit your decision
to
rebid this and just let it sit and let the whole landfill issue be
taken care of. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: That's all, Mr. Chairman.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Looks like somebody's filling out
a slip or --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Hurry up and make a motion.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I've got to agree with
Hiss Passidomo, while we're waiting, with the perpetuity part. And
we
had that discussion --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- a couple weeks ago, and I
think that's actually what led us to looking at the rebid is --
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Uh-huh.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- for that very reason. If
-- if we're going to sell the property for use as a public golf
course, we want to assure that it will be used as a public golf
course.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Have them --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Basically --
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Have it going forever.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Basically summarized our last
discussion is what you did. Those were the two issues that were
predominantly the reason for rebidding and reasons for not granting
to
the golf authority at that time.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Breeden.
MR. BREEDEN: My name is Jack Breeden. I've lived here
for 50 years in Collier County. I've heard the pros and the cons
of
the golf course. To start off with, this golf course is to be for
the
people, the people that put you in office. It's to be their golf
course. It's not to have any -- any private membership, none
whatsoever. You'll have as much right to play on it as I do.
You'll
have a five-day starting time.
The $4,000 thing that came up is what the county paid
for the property. Now, we are offering a little bit more for the
property than the -- than the commissioners even asked for.
Now, we've met many, many times on this thing. And it's
gotten to a point now -- and I might as well be frank about it.
The
semipublic and the semiprivate golf courses do not want this public
golf course for the simple reason that we will pull the people that
want to play golf in the wintertime; we'll pull them to our golf
course. And we're going to a low fee structure. We're going to
have
a nature trail. It's going to be the golf course for every public
school in Collier County that has a girl or boy's golf team. We
are
proposing a nature trail on this property.
All we are going to try to do is to pay our bond off.
We don't have any idea of ever selling this thing for a profit. I
don't care what these other people think. Money is not -- money is
not our number one god; golf is and the people of Collier County.
I can't afford to play golf in Collier County. I've
heard people get up here this morning. Can you afford to pay $120
a
round for 18 holes of golf, any of you people sitting on the board?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's amazing how many free
invitations for golf you get as a county commissioner.
MR. BREEDEN: Pardon me? You, can you afford to pay
$120 to play golf?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: They're coming to you. Refer
them this way so --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't play golf.
MR. BREEDEN: I don't know why anybody would be against
this thing that lives and -- and works in Collier County. I
haven't
heard anybody against it except the wealthy -- the wealthy people
that
can afford to go to their own golf courses.
Now, let me a -- let me tell you this: The developers,
of who we have quite a few people here represent, do they think for
one minute that they could sell a home in a development and then
offer
their -- their homeowners a $20,000 membership in their golf course
if
they could go over and play golf for $42? How many people do
you
think would join up to this thing? Any? You know -- well, you
know
who I'm looking at, and you know the people I'm talking about.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, sir.
MR. BREEDEN: Why is anybody against a public golf
course on a piece of property that is only good for -- for a golf
course or a public park or whatever?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Breeden --
MR. BREEDEN: It's not going to cost the county one
dime, not going to cost the county one dime.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Breeden, I think we're
talking about a perpetuity clause in the deed. We're not going to
MR. BREEDEN: We -- we will put it in the thing that it
shall forever remain a public golf course.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's what we're asking you to do.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's what we're asking.
MR. BREEDEN: What's wrong with that?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Nothing.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Except your attorney says --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Why didn't you do it the first time?
Why didn't you do what the bid asked you to do the first time?
That's
what we're asking.
MR. BREEDEN: For the same reason that the people are
protesting it: We just didn't think about it at that time.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, I think --
MR. BREEDEN: At one time, Mr. Norris, if you'll
remember, when we first wanted this golf course, we were going to
give
it to the county after it was paid for to be run as a public parks
and
recreation; but that was turned down.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MR. BREEDEN: That proposal was turned down.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Jack, I think Commissioner
Norris's question --
MR. BREEDEN: I get a little upset about this thing, to
be frank with you.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think Commissioner Norris's
question stems from the fact that a couple of weeks ago when Arnold
and -- and your attorney were here, the question was raised; will
you
include perpetuity. And at that time the attorney -- your attorney
said, no, we can't. And -- and so now you're saying, yes, you
will.
And I think there's some confusion.
MR. BREEDEN: Well, let me -- let me ask you this one
question: How many golf courses in Collier County have ever gone
bankrupt?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Several, actually.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes.
MR. BREEDEN: Ask -- ask them --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Several.
MR. BREEDEN: Who? Only because their fee structure was
so high that people couldn't afford to play on them.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. That -- Jack, your --
Jack, your point's well made, but the issue today is how to
structure
the rebidding of this. And that's what we need to confine our
discussion to --
MR. BREEDEN: We will put --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- not the concept.
MR. BREEDEN: We will put into the -- a -- into our
proposal that it shall remain a public golf course as long as the
property remains in Collier County.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Well, you'll get your chance on the
rebid to do just that, and that's all --
MR. BREEDEN: And why we should have to rebid it --
everybody knows what we bid before. This puts us at a real
disadvantage.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, the problem --
MR. BREEDEN: If you have some -- some group coming in
and say, well, let's give them -- instead of 1,200,000 dollars for
that property, let's give them 1,500,000 for it, well, that knocks
us
right out of the balipark anyway.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Breeden.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Breeden, the reason that I
-- I'm looking for a rebid is -- is you were supposed to make a 20
percent down payment. According to the proposal, it wasn't made.
MR. BREEDEN: If you've read the -- if you've read the
thing, Ms. Matthews, you'll find out that this thing was knocked
back
and forth when we had the meeting before.
MR. GLASS: Let me address that question.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Glass, you're going to need to
register if you're considering speaking. And -- and --
MR. GLASS: I'm one of the petitioners. Okay. Well,
I'll just forward the material to you for you to look at from the
minutes of that meeting.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: That's all, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Motion, please.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I -- I'd like
us to go ahead with the rebid, but I think we do need to include
perpetuity. I think we need to stick with the 20 percent. And --
and, Sandy, we lost you there, but the alt -- alternatives -- you
said
you had -- in -- in here we have the fill in the blank. Other than
those two items, are there anything -- anything I'm missing that we
need to address?
MS. TAYLOR: The deposit. I do want to clarify that the
board made the motion to approve the bid upon IDA financing, so the
deposit really wasn't officially due until that IDA approval was
made. To clarify, I think that's what -- that's what he wanted to
say.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: But the balance of the bid that
was -- was presented to us did not include the golf course staying
in
perpetuity, which --
MS. TAYLOR: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- I hear everyone saying must be
a part of the bid.
The other element we discussed was an add alternate
because we found that because of the fevertar clause -- in order to
have a fevertar clause, there had to be -- you know, if there's a
fevertar clause, there's no hard capital; and there's no property
there for a financier to base their decision on. It's kind of like
saying -- going and getting a mortgage for your house, but if you
don't make the payment, it doesn't go to the bank; it goes to
somebody
else. That's going to create a problem. No one is going to
finance a
project with a strict fevertar clause like that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Nonetheless, they've promised to do
so, so let them do so.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and what are our options
as, you know, responsible stewards of the public trust? We can't
sell
something this cheap.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think our options are to take
the pockets dedicated to the golf course and the adjacent open
space,
separate that out from -- is this -- this was Commissioner
Constantine's idea. Maybe 50 or 70 or 80 acres of the land is not
subject to the fevertar clause, but the actual pockets of the golf
course are so that it gives some basis for -- for financing. There
is
Some '-
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- real land associated with it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, Commissioner Hancock, think
about this. I mean, may -- maybe that's exactly what we ought to
do,
because I bet there will be a lot of developers who will line up to
bid on that package because this is cheap land. I already know of
a
couple who are interested. And -- and maybe that will get us so
much
money, it will be worth selling this property. But that's a far
cry
from where we started.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I don't think the reverter clause
is realistic for the entire property. But, you know, I mean, if
you
guys want to proceed with the bid and see -- in the reverter
clause,
see if it's there --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think the idea of having
the alternate is a great idea, and I think to suggest that if we
have
several bidders lining up is a bad thing --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think that's great.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's wonderful.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I mean, I hope we have that
problem so --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Let's -- let's --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If you want to craft that
into a motion, I'll --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- be the second.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Why don't I move that we rebid
the project with, one, stating that the -- the land utilized for a
minimum 18-hole public golf course be held in perpetuity; that add
alternates be allowed that show a development scenario outside of
those parcels, if necessary. Is that consistent there? Agreeable?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is this --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Is this land within the urban area,
Miss Taylor?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I -- I had one -- one question
while you -- while you folks think about that.
Mr. Weigel, what's the stick of the perpetuity clause,
if we don't have a reverter clause?
MR. WEIGEL: Well -- well, it reverts to -- I shouldn't
say revert; that's another word, reverter. It becomes a stick
through
both the agreement as a contract upon which you can bring a lawsuit
as
well as the deed instrument itself, and so you've got actually two
documents that provide for that. The -- the deed instrument, of
course, is recorded in the public records. It's noticed to
everyone
even more than the normal records that we have that go through our
meetings, like contracts.
Mr. Hancock, in your motion I think what you had
discussed so far in regard to a minimum 18-hole golf course was
that
be in perpetuity, but I did not hear the reverter word there.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And that's what I was getting to,
is the third item, is it -- that the land dedicated for the golf
course and ancillary facilities be subject to a reverter clause,
but
not necessarily the entire parcel.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: All right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think that provides for the add
alternate possibility. And then we may have the option of someone
who
has no development proposed in this scenario, but a golf course or
even 27 holes, and we get to compare that against someone who's
proposing 18 holes and development.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Uh-huh.
COHHISSIONER HANCOCK: And that seems like a pretty easy
decision, but at least it may give us some options and -- and give
us
a -- a -- the ability to make a choice.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Are you proposing then to
include in -- in the proposal the ability for the person winning
the
bid to propose residential development in this area? Is that what
you're proposing?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Outside of the golf course, yes.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I -- I can't support that.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is -- is that ironic or what? We
can't expand the landfill because it's imposing a smell on existing
residences, but people will be willing to build residences there.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah. Well --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You will get bids --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- the flip --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- for building residential
there.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Commissioner Hac'Kie, the flip
side is -- forget the golf course. If we don't need all this land,
what are we going to do with it?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We do need it.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: For?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: For?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, we needed some of it
recently for expansion of the -- of the county barn. I'll tell you
what I would do if I were -- if it were mine. I would move the dog
pound from a very valuable piece of property on Airport Road out
near
the landfill, and I would fezone that piece of property to
something
marketable and sell it as excess for a price much higher than we're
going to get for property next to the landfill. Let's put the --
let's put animal control out there.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, let --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- me point out a couple --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- creates --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- of things: One is solid
waste paid for this land, not the general fund money; so anything
we
do with this is going to take general fund money being transferred
into the solid waste account. So there's no free ride here. This
isn't the county owning and can do whatever we want. We still got
to
pay for it either way.
And -- and you mentioned the county barn facility. My
understanding is what's planned there also includes option for
expansion for years and years and years to come. The -- this isn't
__
we're just filling today's, 1996, need. I have some reasonable
confidence in our staff that they have the foresight to look and
think, gosh, we're growing. We're going to need a bigger facility
in
the future. Let's plan for that, because I believe it's about 40
acres that's been set aside, which is four times the size of what
we're currently using. We don't need something four times the size
right now, but we will in the future. So I think Commissioner
Hancock's question is valid: For what? And -- and we haven't come
up
with -- with a valid use for 330 acres.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Why don't we -- why don't we
work on Commissioner Hancock's motion. There's a motion on the
floor. Do we have a second for that?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I'll second that.
MS. TAYLOR: The only comment I do have is in my
memorandum to you -- we do need to reserve that hundred foot to the
south of the property for access or utilities or anything else to
that
county barn facility.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That -- that's part of the
motion.
MR. WEIGEL: And I'll add to that for the record, and
that is so that the land that would be legally described for the
rebid
will take into account the appropriate access requirements that the
county appears to have out there themselves. And we also are
taking
into account the potential access requirement for any purchaser of
that property. We want to make sure that a purchaser has access
also.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I -- I've got one more question
for the motion maker. In -- in your mind in the proposal that
probably will come as a result of this for residential property,
are
you -- are you willing to accept proposals for any densities or
only
for the ender -- underlying estates densities?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Oh, for God's sakes, they got to
be consistent with the Growth Management Plan. Come on.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I -- I -- I -- that's
what I was going to say, Commissioner Matthews. I have --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: They could come in as a PUD.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I understand --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And be consistent with the Growth
Management Plan.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Matthews, I
understand the concern you raised. Two thoughts: One is all
that's
been suggested here, if I understand the motion properly, is to
allow
that as a add alternate. It still allows us to turn it down. And
__
and I -- the only reason I like the idea -- I don't -- I don't want
to
see homes there any more than you, but it allows a little
creativity
in the process. We may not like what that creativity comes up
with,
but it allows a little creativity in the process.
Second is its own -- it's not in the urban area; so
there's going to be a great limitation as to what you could do with
homes there. Your density is going to be extremely low. So I'm
not
sure how viable it's going to be, but I -- I'm willing to let
someone
out there in the private sector take a stab at being creative with
it.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: If you want the reverter clause,
you're forced to look at the viability. So --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- if you -- if you don't want
the reverter clause, fine. Forget it. I'll take the lang -- the -
_
that part out of it, out of the motion. But if you want the
reverter
clause, you have to understand a minimal amount of financing for
these
types of projects. And with a reverter clause for the entire
parcel,
you're not going to get any bidders, period. So, you know --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. We have a motion and a second.
If there's no further questions, all those in favor signify by
saying
aye.
Opposed?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Aye.
Item #9B
OUTSIDE COUNSEL FOR A COUNTY EMPLOYEE IN THE WADSWORTH V. COLLIER
COUNTY - STAFF RECOMMENDATION APPROVED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Next item, 9(B) --
MS. TAYLOR: Can I just ask one question? All other
terms and conditions remain the same: deposit days, closing?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We're not going to change any of
that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Outside counsel issue.
MR. MANALICH: Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners. For the record, Ramiro Manalich and Shirley Jean
McEachern from county attorney. Thanks for considering this matter
as
an add-on. I'll try to be as brief as possible.
You have an executive summary before you which outlines
the history of this matter. This is a case that's been pending --
this is a case that's been pending in federal court for
approximately
a year and a half. Now, just recently, within the last month and a
half, the county was able to obtain a favorable ruling on motions
to
dismiss the complaint in this action that had been filed. The
Court
allowed the plaintiff, Mr. Wadsworth -- and this stems from, by the
way, a contractor licensing matter. It allowed Mr. Wadsworth to
amend
his complaint, come back -- we now owe responsive pleadings to this
matter by the 31st of October. The Court also ordered mediation to
take place on November 6th.
This is here because of those time exigencies to request
that you consider our recommendation to appoint outside counsel,
under
the unique circumstance of this case, for a county employee,
Mr. Bartoe, who is one of the individual defendants in this case.
Basically, the lawsuit is Mr. Wadsworth, who had his
license revoked, versus the County, the City, Mr. Bartoe, Mr.
Clark,
and Mr. Uman. Mr. Uman is a city employee.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Mr. Hanalich, if I could just
interrupt, the most responsive part of the memo that I read was
that
it's the interpretation that we have legal and ethical conflicts.
We
owe this man a representation, and our -- our county attorney's
office
can't do it because of legal and ethical conflicts. He's requested
Mr. Bryant; I think that's -- makes perfect sense. So when it's
appropriate I'll do a motion to approve.
MR. HANALICH: You've seized right on the points that
are involved.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I don't have any
objection. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. One --
one question I have that's related -- Mr. Clark has mentioned in
here
as well. I realize Mr. Clark left our employ with some questions;
however, those questions did not deal with this specific case. And
this issue was raised, and I'm -- I'm wondering -- and I just want
to
-- want to be clear. I've got to assume, because he was employed
at
the time and because this case was not part of the confusion that
eventually led to his resignation, that he has the same rights
Mr. Bartoe has, to have the county just -- if -- if some case came
against you, Mr. Hanalich, now, you left the -- the county three
months from now, the county would still have some responsibility to
defend you. And -- and I -- I'm wondering how we'll handle that
with
Mr. Clark as well.
MR. HANALICH: I believe that's correct. I mean, I
don't think that the ultimate consideration here on that decision
is
whether the employee has sub -- subsequently gone on to other
employment.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right.
MR. HANALICH: The decision was made in our office
originally, when this lawsuit came, not to represent Mr. Clark.
The
reason for that was not whether he was employed or not at the time;
it
was the issue that under these civil rights cases, you can have
essentially three levels, at least, of liability. You can have
individual, like an employee, liability; you can have the entity
being
liable; or you could have supervisory liability.
Now, in this particular case, the situation we're
dealing with is Mr. Clark in a supervisory position for this
matter.
Because of the circumstances -- of which I am voicing no opinion of
any way one or the other. But because of circumstances you alluded
to
in Mr. Clark's departure, we believe that it was in the best
interest
of the county as the entity not to take on that representation and
only to tell Mr. Clark that he would be entitled to reimbursement
if
he were to be exonerated and prevail in this lawsuit. We felt that
was what best protected the interests of the county, given all of
the
circumstances surrounding his situation.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So you're saying we are still
upholding the same responsibility, but it -- it will be in the form
of
reimbursement as opposed to up front.
MR. MANALICH: Correct, for reasonable attorney fees.
And, you know, these are judgmental-type decisions. They're not
easy. You have to analyze each case on its own merits and all of
the
individual circumstances. And, again, I am not -- as a matter of
fact, I've stated in this summary that our preliminary inquiry into
this matter refutes or -- you know, we have substantial reason to
believe that the allegations against all of the defendants here,
including Mr. Bartoe and Mr. Clark, are not founded. However, as
you
know, this has to go through a process of, you know, litigation.
So
I'm not -- I don't want to be misinterpreted that we're in doubt on
that, but I believe because of the circumstances surrounding
Mr. Clark, that he was in a different position than Mr. Bartoe, and
that -- our recommendation is as to him to only have the minimum
reimbursement responsibility if he were to prevail.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I apologize to the board
for going off, but I thought that was an important point. With
that
I'll make a motion, if you haven't already, we follow staff
recommendation and provide representation for Mr. Bartoe in the way
of
attorney David E. Bryant.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: A motion and a second by Commissioner
Hac'kie first, I believe. All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Thank you, Mr. Hanalich.
Item #9C
ACCEPTANCE OF A GRANT OF EASEMENT FOR INGRESS AND EGRESS FOR
EMERGENCY
VEHICLES ON THE NORTH 13 FEET OF LOT 34, WILLA FLORESTA, AT
WYNDEHERE,
PHASE 2 - APPROVED
Our next one is EHS access issue.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Chairman, she's been going
about two hours. She's -- the court reporter, she's been going for
about two hours. If it's not a problem, we should break soon.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Break -- you want a break?
THE COURT REPORTER: If it's not too much trouble.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. We'll -- we'll take a
five-minute break then.
(A short break was held.)
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We'll reconvene, and we're ready for
Item 9(C), EHS access, emergency access, through Wyndemere, an
easement.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: While he's coming up, can I
apologize to the members of the board who -- who I offended with my
freak-off comment? I did not mean to imply that anybody's doing
anything they shouldn't be doing. And sometimes in my
lightheartedness I forget that people will -- will make
implications
that were not intended. So I -- I do apologize for that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Accepted. Who has this issue?
MR. WEIGEL: I do.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: Mr. Chairman, thank you. David Weigel. I
appreciate that we could be allowed to have, in fact, two add-on
items, which certainly isn't our bent normally.
This one concerns a matter that was before the board
early this year about an ingress-egress emergency vehicle --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Excuse me. If I may interrupt,
Mr. Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Have there been any material
changes in this since the last time the board approved it?
MR. WEIGEL: No, none. The documents are in order.
We're very pleased with the assistance we've had with Mr. Viggiani
and
Attorney Tom Haloney for Wyndemere Farms.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: With that grateful
acknowledgment, I'll make a motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Second.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: A motion and a second by Commissioner
Matthews. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 96-474 APPOINTING MICHAEL BRUET AND DONALD YORK TO THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMHISSION - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Next item is 10(A), appointment of two
members to the Collier County Planning Commission from District 2.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Two at the same time?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We have --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's what it says.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah. Well, as you may remember,
Mr. Bruet is fulfilling --
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Oh, that's right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- a term. So I'd like to make
the reappointment of Michael Bruet and Donald York.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying are.
(All of the commissioners responded.)
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Excuse me, not "are." Don't say
"are"; say "aye."
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Are.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What was that?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Is that an invalid vote now? No
one said are. We can say are.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I didn't mean to say are.
Item #10B
RESOLUTION 96-475 APPOINTING JOHN THOMPSON AND THOMAS FRANCHINO TO
THE
HISTORICAL/ARCHAEOLOGICAL PRESERVATION BOARD - ADOPTED
Appointment of members to the Historical Archeological
Preservation Board.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I will --
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Mr. Chairman, we've got two
applications, two appointments to make. I move that we appoint
John
W. Thompson and Thomas W. Franchino.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sec -- I'll just second the
motion.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: A motion and a second. All those in
favor signify by saying --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was rotten.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
Item #10C
RESOLUTION 96-476 ENCOURAGING THE PUBLIC TO CONSIDER FUTURE NEEDS
AND
LOOK FAVORABLY UPON THE JAIL AND DETENTION CENTER REFERENDUM -
ADOPTED
Next item, 10(C), resolution of support for the jail
expansion referendum.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, I had asked that this be put
on the agenda as an add-on request to the commission. And also the
__
the one group that is sponsoring the support and political action
activities for this, they're looking for you to reserve a
resolution
number. But they're going to petition you for your support today
on
the -- the jail and work release center. Bond -- I keep saying
bond
referendum; it's not correct -- sales tax referendum, and that is
scheduled in November. I do have two speakers.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I just want to
raise the question, if it's appropriate for this board as a body,
to
be making recommendations to the public on how they should vote.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, we -- we have not --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let -- let me comment on that one.
There's a distinction here between this one and any other
referendum
that may be on the -- the ballot.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Because you supported it.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: The -- the distinction is very simply
that the county commission brought this one forward.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Right.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I think the -- this is an issue that
we, as the board, have to deal with directly probably in the very
near
future, depending on what the State of Florida does to us
concerning
our jail space. And the reason that we brought this forward is
because it's much more palatable, on the surface at least, to the
board of commissioners here to suggest that the public consider
paying
for this through the sales tax referendum which, seemingly, would
last
for a period of less than two years rather than have to put it on
property taxes for a period of perhaps twenty years under a bond
issue. But the choice is not whether or not we're going to have to
expand the jail at some point; it's how do we pay for it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And I -- I have to say that one
of the main reasons I like seeing this on our agenda is because the
__
the other tax is --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Property tax?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- is getting a lot of airplay.
It's become the dominant of the two for discussion purposes, call-
in
shows, radio shows, and so forth. And I think what is probably
more
important, in my opinion, to the future of this community is
whether
or not we have a place to put the criminals and whether or not we
have
a place to rehabilitate those that are -- are candidates for that.
And this work restitution center, which is such an integral part of
this, is being lost in the -- the mallay (phonetic) of everything
else
that's being discussed. So by this board taking a position on this
item, I would hope to unanimous consent, would probably send a
message
that this is a valid item for the voters to consider. And I think
that's getting lost in the discussion.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and as I understand it,
and -- you have to turn to the very last page to find this. And so
I
agree with this airplay issue, that we need to get as much public
attention on this as we possibly can so people will know how
important
it is and that it can get that far.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think it's inappropriate
that the board of commissioners tell the public how to vote.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's the way I feel about it
too. I don't --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. Well, it looks like we're going
to have a 3-to-2 vote then.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: You got your three votes.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Let's just go forward and -- and have
our public speakers.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Passidomo.
MS. PASSIDOMO: I'm going to defer to Ned Putzel because
you already had your fill of me today; so I'll sit out.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm still hungry.
MR. DORRILL: And we also have a Victor Neiditz. You'll
follow Ned.
MR. PUTZEL: Good morning. Thanks for the opportunity
to do -- my name is Ned Putzel, citizen of the City of Naples. And
I
appreciate very much this opportunity, once again, to speak to this
august body with respect to this matter. As I'm sure you all know,
Ted -- Judge Ted Brousseau and I and -- and Captain Smith have
appeared before this board and previous boards on many occasions
concerning the work release problem. The jail situation, the
chairman
spoke to most eloquently.
But as -- as regards the work release aspect of it, this
is something that is tremendously important, something that all of
you
and previous boards told us you supported in principle a number of
times. And, again, you were good enough to put it on the ballot by
your -- your approving the referendum item.
As has been said by members of this board, we are very
concerned that the public at large in Collier County is not aware
of
the tremendous benefits, not only to the criminals involved and to
their families, but to all of the citizenry of Collier County that
will accrue from the adoption of -- of -- of this very short, large
sales -- sales tax, which will en -- enable us to go forward. And
I
would -- with all due respect to my good friend, Commissioner
Constantine, for whom I do have respect and regard, I would submit
that this is in the county's interest. It is in the interest of
the
welfare and the safety of the people of this county.
And with -- without the support of this group and with
-- with its being buried, if you would, at the end of what I'm
told
are eight or more pages on the ballot, I would think that all of us
are going to live to regret it if we don't at least indicate an
endorsement of the principle that's behind our desire to go
forward.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you, sir. That's it,
Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: No. There's Mr. -- I believe it's
Neiditz.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Neiditz.
MR. NEIDITZ: Neil, I have copies.
MR. DORRILL: Certainly.
MR. NEIDITZ: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and
Commissioners. I feel somewhat at a disadvantage following the
veteran politician, Mayor Putzel. But -- and this is my first time
appearing before you folks, so bear with me, please. I -- I'm a
resident of Naples living in Park Shore, and I'm speaking for the
Taxpayer Action Group. I think I mentioned my name. If I didn't,
I'll re -- repeat it. It's Vic Neiditz.
Our aversion to criminals should not stampede us into
supporting the one-half cent increase in the sales tax to fund and
expand the jail; nor should our ability to shift some portion of
the
capital cost to tourists and -- and visitors stampede us into
supporting the project without considering its need and the
existence
of alternative measures, which can resolve the problem with no
increase or a smaller increase in taxes. Let me -- let us be
objective and dispassionate in our approach and not rush into
raising
taxes because it's only a half penny. The fact is that the cost
is
$27 million, not a half penny.
The project consists of two parts which should be
considered separately. The smaller part involves construction of a
work release center, something new to Collier County, providing for
110 beds at a cost of $2.6 million. Its purpose is to give the
presiding judge an opportunity to sentence a nonviolent,
rehabilitable
offender to something between imprisonment and probation. This is
an
interesting proposal and deserves thoughtful consideration prior to
a
vote on its funding.
The larger part of the project involves expansion of the
Collier County Jail by 256 beds and the provision of additional
office
space, all for the sum of 24.4 million dollars, including about 6
million for office space. It is in this area we have critical
questions and comments.
According to the -- one, according to the jail
management, about 80 percent of the roughly 550 prisoners in the
county jail are awaiting trial or -- or sentencing, making the jail
primarily a pipeline in the judicial process. Question: Why are
we
not able to accelerate the trial and sentencing process through
additional court employees or overtime payments and, thereby,
reduce
the number of prisoners in the pipeline? Wouldn't this be less
costly
than expanding the jail?
Point two, we know that Sheriff Hunter tries to keep the
jail full, either with Collier County prisoners or with prisoners
from
other counties for which the sheriff receives per diem payments.
This
practice tends to optimize jail cost, and the sheriff should be
commended for it. But it also camouflages the real need for prison
beds and should not justify expanding the jail so that we can rent
beds to other count -- to other counties.
Item 3, the proponents of the jail expansion project
admit that there is no need for additional beds today. They claim
the
need will hit us in the future on the basis of historical growth
rates. Have these people no confidence in the anticrime, get-tough
measures now being initiated federally and locally to make criminal
to deter -- I re -- I emphasize deter criminal activity?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Excuse me, sir. That's -- that's --
MR. NEIDITZ: Pardon?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's your time, please. Your time
is up. Excuse me, sir.
MR. NEIDITZ: Could I have another moment?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: No, sir.
MR. NEIDITZ: Well, let me conclude by saying that on
the ba -- on this basis we feel that the -- the proposition should
be
defeated. We feel it is not necessary.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, I have two others. Captain
Smith.
MR. NEIDITZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: In fairness to people we've had on
other issues here, we're not going to get into a political debate
here
today. Now, we were courteous with Mr. Neiditz and let him get in
his
opponent's side of it, but I don't want to get into a political
debate
here on this question. I mean, we're -- we're discussing whether
or
not we're going to pass a resolution here this morning, and I don't
want to extend the debate on this.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have a question specific to the
resolution. Mr. Dotrill, assuming the voters approve this -- the
half-penny sales tax --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: I didn't think --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- the actual final plans, the
construction plans, in proceeding with the jail or the work center
would come back to this board before becoming a reality; is that
correct?
MR. DORRILL: We -- we would need to -- to size the
project and bring back to the board -- given a project of -- of
this
size, I would like the board to actually see the plans that are
contemplated for both facilities.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So the public would have the
ability and the opportunity to comment at that time as to whether
or
not the jail expansion, the associated administrative offices, or
the
work center are necessary.
MR. DORRILL: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. DORRILL: And -- and then subsequent through the bid
process before you award a construction contract.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So at least two opportunities for
public comment. With that, I -- you said there were two registered
speakers. Other than getting into a debate on the tax itself,
there
-- is the second of these two -- MR. DORRILL: Mr. Erlichman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Erlichman, we don't want to run a
political campaign here for your -- if that's your intention, would
you please --
MR. ERLICHMAN: May I -- may I continue with
Mr. Neiditz's remarks and finish them, please?
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Erlichman, we don't want to run a
political campaign here and --
MR. ERLICHMAN: It's not a political campaign.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Yes, it is, sir. Your -- your --
MR. ERLICHMAN: I beg to differ.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We have his comments in writing,
you know. What I'd like to do is I'd like to go ahead and put a
motion on the floor. It's a three-part motion. The first part of
the
motion is to encourage the public to consider the future needs of
our
community regarding jail space and the merits of the work and
restitution center.
The second part of the motion is to encourage the
citizens of Collier County to look favorably upon the half-penny
sales
tax for jail expansion as a superior option versus funding the
necessary expansion solely from ad valorem taxes.
The third element of the motion is to inform members of
the public that the actual construction of the county jail and work
center must receive final approval from the Board of County
Commissioners. Those are the three parts of the motion.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The -- the third part, it seems
to me, could -- could confuse people. It's -- I mean, could make
them
wonder if the money has to be spent on a jail.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, what's the third part
again?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: The third part was that I'd like
the members of the public to know that the actual construction --
before proceeding, construction of a jail or work center, that this
board would have review and approval of that. In other words, it's
not a -- by approving the tax, you're not giving a blank check to
the
sheriff's office to say build what you want how you want when you
want. There will be public opportunity to comment on the nature of
the expansion and the size of the expansion and that this board has
a
voice in that.
COMMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I'm going to vote
against it and -- and -- but I want to clarify. I -- I've
supported
Mayor Putzel and Greg and -- and everyone in this effort. My vote
against it isn't necessarily against the project as much as it is I
have trouble with the board making endorsements on one side of an
issue or another. I -- I don't know that it's appropriate for us
to
be suggesting how the public should vote on something. It's a -- I
want to clarify that for the record. It's not opposed to the issue
as
much as it is opposed to us telling them how to do it.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I feel the same way. I'm -- I'm
going to vote against it also, not that I don't support the -- the
jail issue; I certainly do. But I -- I just don't think it's this
board's place to be advising the voters, who are infinitely more
wisdom -- more wise than we are, how they should vote.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, likewise, in the battle of
sound bites, I think this is a form of information that is not
being
disseminated right now, and that's the reason for making the motion
and supporting it is to get the information out.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Okay. With that, we have a motion and
a second. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That motion passed successfully. Do
we have any --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can we have a recount?
PUBLIC COMMENT - GIL ERLICHMAN AND TY AGOSTIN REGARDING THE LAND
ACQUISITION ADVISORY COMMITTEE ORDINANCE 96-62
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: -- public comment today?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir. I've got two. Mr. Erlichman.
He'll read his thing in.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Good morning, commissioners. My name is
Gil -- Gilbert Erlichman. I reside in East Naples, and I'm
speaking
for myself.
Last week, October the 8th, on the Agenda Item 12 --
12(C)(1) I addressed this board concerning a few issues on -- on
the
item -- the agenda item under discussion which was -- pardon me --
a
96-34. But there was -- the agenda item concerned either an
amended
ordinance or a new ordinance. And as of this date, the new
ordinance
that was done on October 8th was 96-62, which at present is up in
Tal
-- Tallahassee being approved. And I have a copy of it here which
I
obtained this morning from the clerk of courts upstairs on the
fourth
floor. And the -- according to this -- this 96-62, on which I had
~o
knowledge when I cast my -- as I said, the -- last week I cast my
absentee ballot.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: The motion was --
MR. ERLICHHAN: I was -- did not have any knowledge of
what was in this 96-62. And a statement by Mr. Hancock, after I
had
made my presentation and when he was proposing the a -- the
adoption
of this ordinance, which will be -- would be approved if the ball -
if the ballot was approved by the -- by the electors, he said, The
people who have submitted their absentee ballots to date -- and
that
was October 8th -- did so without knowing one thing about how this
is
implemented. You voted yes or no without knowing how your money is
going to be spent at all, period. Those are his exact words
because I
-- I -- I taped this -- the session on my home VCR, and I played
it
to myself, and I got the words.
Well, according to this statement by Mr. Hancock, when
I voted I didn't know what I was voting on or I didn't have the '-
or
I didn't have the information, which is absolutely true because I
don't have the information on 96-62. So I -- in my opinion, I
think
that what the board -- the action that the board took last week is
something that's going to cloud or will -- is clouding the -- the
issue of that particular ballot because the ballot question states
ninety -- ninety-six, dash, thirty-four. It does not state
anything
about 96-62. And if I could afford it, I would -- I would hire an
attorney and bring a class action suit against the commission for
passing that.
Mr. Constantine and Mr. Norris did not vote for it.
They were against passing that motion to accept this 96-62, and
they
wanted to wait until after the election. But the other three
commissioners, Mr. Hancock, Miss Hac'kie, and Miss Matthews, voted
for
it.
So this is the only way I can voice my objection to what
happened last week, under public comment. And I'm sorry to say
this
is one of my reasons that I do not trust my government, either
federal
state or local government, down here. It makes me very, very
suspicious as to what hap -- what is happening to -- to me and to
the
rest of the voters who voted their absentee ballots. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Agoston.
MR. AGOSTON: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Ty Agoston. I live in Golden Gate Estates, and I guess I'm
representing two of my local grandsons whose lives, essentially,
you
directly affect.
This green tax proposal has received special
consideration from its inception. You waived the 10 percent
signature
that's required normally to place something on the referendum, and
at
that time there was no explanation found. And there are a lot of
lawyers in this country. You can always find an explanation for
any
side any given time.
As the presentation of this proposal progressed, there
were changes. There were changes all the time. I lived in New
York
City for a hundred and some-odd years and very experienced with the
various shell games that's being played in New York City, and this
almost made me homesick. It came across that every time you wanted
to
evaluate the proposal, things have changed. The -- there was never
a
time where you could come up against an issue without it being
changed
by the next meeting.
Now, the working public has very little time or energy
to analyze the various proposals, counterproposals, and the various
private understandings that apparently gets into this process; and
I
want to voice my opposition. There are a couple of things I have
problem with this in a -- very broad terms. One of them is, I
don't
understand how could a group that is comprised, primarily people
practicing environmental work in the county, for money, can be part
of
the -- the agenda promoting additional business flowing into their
industry. Obviously, they will get a benefit out of it.
Mr. Hancock used to work for one of these companies. I
would think that he would have to recuse himself from participating
in
a situation like that, but I -- you know, I have no particular
knowledge of your business up here.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Or the law.
MR. AGOSTON: You know --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Apparently, you don't understand
the law either, Ty. Okay.
MR. AGOSTON: The next issue I like to bring up is the
way this is being promoted by the -- the other members. As I can
see
it, there is nobody in Immokalee or Golden Gate Estates or
Everglades
City or anybody from the other side of 951 who will get any benefit
out of this. Those are, essentially, the poor people in the
county.
Are you guys going to tax these people to pay for the convenience
of
the much better material of people who live nearer to the beach? I
mean, I don't -- I'm not a believer of taking money away from the
rich
to give it to the poor, but I'm sure as hell not a believer of
taking
money from the poor to give it to the rich either.
The other issue is the composition of the board. There
are eight environmentalists on the board that can essentially run
the
board because, as I understand, the majority compromise -- is at
eight. So they don't need any citizen participation, and they can
make any decision for whatever unspoken agenda that appears to be
in
this whole proposal. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: That's all, Mr. Chairman.
Item #14A
DISTRICT 5 COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION APPLICANTS - TO BE
CONSIDERED ON NOVEMBER 5, 1996
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's all? Okay. That concludes our
morning agenda, and we'll go straight to board communications.
Commissioner Matthews?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. I -- I have one
question. Mr. Weigel, on Janes Scenic Drive when -- when are we
going
to see those agreements before this board?
MR. WEIGEL: Gosh, I -- I think they're all but ready
right now. I'll get right back with you because I think we're
ready
to bring them to the board.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you. I -- I'd
appreciate that, if -- if we can see those rather soon.
MR. WEIGEL: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: And, Miss Filson, you had told
me earlier today that you have all the applications in for the
District 5 CCPC.
MS. FILSON: Yes.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: And you had asked if November
the 12th would -- would be a -- a good day to hear those. I think
I'd
like to hear them sooner, if -- if -- if that's possible.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's the Planning Commission?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Uh-huh.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is that what you're saying?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Planning Commission
appointments.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Any particular reason why there's a
specific day?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, Ms. Filson was asking if
November the 12th was -- was okay. It's certainly okay, but -- but
I
think because we extended the terms of the existing commission only
one month, we should probably do that sooner, not --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hmm.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- not later.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: And so I -- I would like to see
November the 5th. Allowing next week is probably not really
reasonable.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I certainly have no objection.
That makes sense since we extended for a month.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: When were they extended
through? Did we have a particular date?
MS. FILSON: November 1st.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: When does the Planning
Commission meet in --
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: November the 7th.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sounds like we better do it on
the 5th.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: If -- if we can -- if we can
hear that November the 5th, I'd appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: The 5th it is then. Anyone object to
the 5th?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. No.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner MAc'kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, sir. Thank you.
Item #14B
BACK LOG OF CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD CASES - DISCUSSED
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Commissioner Constantine?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: One question. Mr. Cautero is
here. He may be able to help me with this. But I -- I've heard on
two or three occasions -- actually, far more than two or three
occasions -- items that are scheduled for our Code Enforcement
Board
that there is a great backlog of cases and that it takes months to
get
to the Code Enforcement Board. A, is that accurate; B, if that's
the
case --
(Commissioner Hancock exited the boardroom.)
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- why doesn't the Code
Enforcement Board meet more often in order to catch up; or C,
and/or
have longer meetings? It just seems to me rather than say, gosh,
there's a backlog, it's slow, what are we doing? If there's a
backlog, what are we doing to remedy that situation?
MR. CAUTERO: Your first question I would answer in the
affirmative. There is a backlog. I had a talk with Linda
Sullivan,
our code enforcement director, about that yesterday. And the
reason
that she gives me is the Code Enforcement Board has directed staff
or I should say requested that staff does not put more than two or
three items on a given agenda because some of these cases are
taking
three and four hours in length. And going beyond the time frame
that
they may have set would be acceptable to staff, certainly, but
maybe
not to the board. So I'm in a position now where I'm going to make
a
request of the Code Enforcement Board chair to possibly look at
more
meetings per month or extending the meetings out or loading up more
items on their agenda. The reason is the Code Enforcement Board
has
seen some cases go for long periods of time. Lely Barefoot Beach
is
an anomaly. But we are having some cases take three to four hours
in
length, and that one took about six. So my goal is to put more on
their agenda so we can have more cases finalized quicker.
I will submit to you, though, Commissioners, that if --
that if the chair and the board is not amenable to that, I may be
coming to you for some relief.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It seems to me the Code
Enforcement Board is there to do a particular job. And if the
current
method isn't working for them to fulfill those duties, then we need
to
correct that. So if -- if they're not open to that, then I -- I
hope
you will immediately bring it back to the board, and we'll give
direction. Because, I mean, it's just not acceptable that you have
a
code enforcement case that takes six months before it even is
heard.
The only other thing is there will be an organizational
meeting of the "Save the Carrotwood Group" tonight at seven o'clock
at
my home.
CHAI~ NORRIS: I somehow think that was --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: BYOB?
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Are you having carrot cake?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Are you having carrot cake?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Carrot cake will be
available.
Item #15B
MEETING SCHEDULED FOR 12:30 P.M. WITH DIVISION ADMINISTRATORS AND
EMERGENCY SERVICES STAFF REGARDING CURRENT TRACK OF HURRICANE OFF
THE
COAST OF MEXICO
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Dorrill, I think you have a couple
of important issues for us.
MR. DORRILL: I have one. I was notified during your
recess that there is a hurricane that has formed down off the coast
between Nicaragua and Mexico, and the current track has it passing
somewhere between Fort Myers and Naples apparently on Friday. So
we've convened a meeting of your division administrators and
emergency
service people at 12:30 in order to preplan for a conference call
from
the hurricane center at 3. And only in the event that we think
that
we need you -- to call you back this evening, I -- I would.
Otherwise, you should probably expect to hear from us tomorrow
unless
the track changes, but I'll be very sensitive to your timing.
The board had also asked us --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'd go ahead and make a
motion we change the track.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: You think it will listen?
Item #15A
TIMEKEEPER'S SOFTWARE PROGRAM - DISCUSSED
MR. DORRILL: The board had asked us about a month ago,
and specifically Mr. Hancock, to -- to come back and tell you what
we
can do in the way of a time tracking software system. And since
he's
not here, I don't know whether we should proceed other than you had
told us to come back and give you a brief update. We -- we can do
that --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, we've got a memo.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We've got a memo.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We got a memo on it that I
thought was -- was very informative and sounded like you're going
exactly down the track that I had hoped.
MR. DORRILL: Rather than belabor it, I was going to say
if --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's probably --
MR. DORRILL: -- if you have some questions, I'm
prepared to have this -- to answer your questions. If you want a
more
formalized presentation, I'm prepared to do that as part of a
regular
agenda. But you -- you asked us to do this in advance of today,
and
so we're prepared to answer your questions, if you have any.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I -- I just have really one
question -- and you don't have to answer it now; you can -- you can
send me a memo -- is that once the information is in the
timekeeper,
what are we going to do with it and who's going to analyze it?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do you know --
MR. CAUTERO: Vince Cautero for the record. What we
hoped to do with that is to try to show some relationship between
the
time spent and the fee for the particular permit that someone is
applying for. And that analysis will come with a revised fee
schedule
sometime -- not the current one they were working on for the fee
adjustment that's needed, but next year in -- in accordance with
the
Development Services Advisory Committee's work, which they do
yearly.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I -- I -- I do have to say --
and I'm -- I'm sure Miss MAc'Kie's aware of it too -- that our
businesses use timekeeper systems, because that's all we have to
sell
is time. And I must say that for only three people in our office
at
this time, we spend a day or a day and a half reviewing and
analyzing
time slips each month. And if -- you know, for a year's time all
at
one time, you -- you're talking about a lot of analysis.
MR. CAUTERO: You're correct. It will take some time to
do that.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. DORRILL: That's all that I have, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: Nothing. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: Miss Filson?
MS. FILSON: Nothing. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: We're adjourned.
***** Commissioner Constantine moved, seconded by Commissioner
Hancock, and carried unanimously, that the following items under
the consent agenda be approved and/or adopted:
Item #16A1
RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "WILSHIRE PINES"
O.R. Book Pages
Item #16A2
AGREEMENT FOR THE FLORIDA DEPARTHENT OF ENVIRONHENTAL PROTECTION
ARTIFICIAL REEF GRANT FOR THE ARTIFICIAL REEF PROGRAM OF COLLIER
COUNTY
- IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,000.00
Item #16A3
RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "HIDDEN SANCTUARY VILLAGE AT THE
VERANDAS AT TIGER ISLAND" - WITH CASH BOND AS SECURITY,
CONSTRUCTION &
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND STIPULATIONS
Item #16A4
WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES ACCEPTANCE FOR NORTH COLLIER HOSPITAL
O.B.
EXPANSION - WITH PERFORMANCE BOND AND STIPULATIONS
O.R. Book Pages
Item #16A5
WATER FACILITIES ACCEPTANCE FOR BAY COLONY GOLF CLUB MAINTENANCE
FACILITY - WITH CASH BOND AS SECURITY AND STIPULATIONS
O.R. Book Pages
Item #16B1 - This item has been deleted
Item #1682
BUDGET AMENDMENT RECOGNIZING CARRY FORWARD FROM FY 1996 FOR FUND
589,
OFFICE OF CAPITAL PROJECTS MANAGEMENT - IN THE AMOUNT OF $30,000.00
Item #1683
RECOGNITION AND APPROPRIATION OF PRIOR YEAR CDD APPLICATION FEE
REVENUE
TO FUND COHMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT APPLICATION PROCESSING COSTS
Item #1684
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT FOR PARCEL NO. 101, COLLIER COUNTY V.
LAMAR
GABLE, TRUSTEE, ET AL, CASE NO. 94-2130-CA-01-TB, EMINENT DOMAIN
CASE
FOR C.R. 941 ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY, CIE NOS. 10 AND 11 AND ASSOCIATED
FEES
AND COSTS - IN THE AMOUNT OF $12,126.84
Item #1685
RESOLUTION 96-465 AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF A HIGHWAY SWEEPING
MAINTENANCE MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION; RESOLUTION 96-466 AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF A
HIGHWAY MOWING MAINTENANCE MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE
OF
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Item #1686
BID #96-2570 AWARDED TO VARIOUS VENDORS LISTED IN THE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARY, IN THE ESTIMATED A_MOUNT OF $1,183,579.00, FOR CHEMICALS
FOR
THE PUBLIC WORKS DIVISION
Item #1687
REAPPROPRIATION OF TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDING, IN THE A_MOUNT
OF
$926,172.00, FOR CATEGORY "A" PROJECTS DURING FY 96/97
Item #1688
AMENDMENT NO. 2 TO THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH METCALF
&
EDDY FOR THE NCRWTP8-HGD EXPANSION PROJECT
Item #16C1
RESOLUTION 96-467 AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY PARKS AND RECREATION
FACILITIES LICENSE AND FEE POLICY NO. 96-364
Item #16C2
BUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $15,000.00, RECOGNIZING PRIVATE
DONATIONS MADE TO MADE TO COLLIER COUNTY IN SUPPORT OF SALARY COST
OF A
VEGETABLE AGENT'S POSITION
Item #16C3
AGREEMENT FOR THE 1996-97 FUNDING CONTRIBUTION, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$710,400.00, TO THE DAVID LAWRENCE MENTAL HEALTH CENTER, INC.
Item #16D1
BUDGET AMENDMENTS RECOGNIZING PROJECTED CARRY FORWARD IN THE AMOUNT
OF
$34,170.00, FOR PROJECTS IN FUND 301
Item #16El
RESOLUTION 96-468 GRANTING A GRANDFATHER CERTIFICATE TO EAGLE
CREEK,
UTILITY II, INC., FOR THE PROVISION OF WASTEWATER SERVICE IN
SPECIFIC
UNINCORPORATED AREAS OF COLLIER COUNTY, CONSISTENT WITH THE
CERTIFICATE
PREVIOUSLY GRANTED BY THE FLORIDA PUBLIC SERVICE COHMISSION
Item #16E2
RESOLUTION 96-469 GRANTING A GRANDFATHER CERTIFICATE TO ROOKERY BAY
UTILITY FOR THE PROVISION OF WASTEWATER SERVICE TO ITS ESTABLISHED
SERVICE AREA, CONSISTENT WITH THE CERTIFICATE PREVIOUSLY GRANTED BY
THE
FLORIDA PUBLIC SERVICE COHMISSION
Item #16E3
RESOLUTION 96-470 GRANTING A GRANDFATHER CERTIFICATE TO ORANGE TREE
UTILITY COMPANY OF THE PROVISION OF WATER SERVICE TO ITS SERVICE
AREA,
CONSISTENT WITH THE CERTIFICATE PREVIOUSLY GRANTED BY THE FLORIDA
PUBLIC SERVICE COHMISSION
Item #16E4
RESOLUTION 96-471 GRANTING A GRANDFATHER CERTIFICATE TO ORANGE TREE
UTILITY COMPANY FOR THE PROVISION OF WASTEWATER SERVICE TO ITS
WASTEWATER SERVICE AREA, CONSISTENT WITH THE CERTIFICATE PREVIOUSLY
GRANTED BY THE FLORIDA PUBLIC SERVICE COHMISSION
Item #16E5
BUDGET AMENDMENT NOS. 97-003 AND 97-004
Item #16G1
CERTIFICATE OF CORRECTION TO THE TAX ROLLS AS PRESENTED BY THE
PROPERTY
APPRAISER'S OFFICE
1993 Real Property
No. Dated
249 10/01/96
1995 Real Property
No. Dated
255 09/30/96
Item #1662
SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR SERVICES OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER
Item #1663
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:41 a.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
JOHN L. NORRIS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING
BY: Helissa Hilligan