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BCC Minutes 08/03/1995 J (w/Lee BCC and Charlotte BCC)WORKSHOP MEETING OF AUGUST 3, 1995, OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS WITH LEE AND CHARLOTTE COUNTIES LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Commissioners in and for the counties of Lee, Collier, and Charlotte met on this date at 10 a.m., in Chambers, at 2120 Main Street, fort Myers, with the following members present: LEE COUNTY: Commissioner St. Cerny Commissioner Judah Commissioner Coy Donald Stilwell, County Manager Jan Winters, Administration COLLIER COUNTY: Commissioner Matthews Commissioner Norris Commissioner Constantine W. Neil Dotrill, County Manager CHARLOTTE COUNTY: Commissioner DeBoer Commissioner Fartell Commissioner Cummings COHHISSIONER JUDAH: We may as well go ahead and get started. I apologize for the delay. And I don't mean to be so presumptuous as to preside over the meeting, but our own chairman, Commissioner Albion, is not going to make it today. His wife just had surgery, so he is at her side. She's doing fine, but he cannot make it. Commissioner Manning is up in Tallahassee, and commissioner Coy has a scheduling conflict. I appreciate those commissioners from the respective Counties of Collier and Charlotte for being here today and certainly my colleague, Commissioner St. Cerny. And thank you so much to Anita Mitchell from The Mitchell Group for being here today. It's very gracious of you, Anita, for taking your time at no expense to these counties for being here and imparting a wisdom that you've collected over the years in your workings with the legislature. And certainly we have Representative Greg Alan Gay here. We appreciate Greg being here. We -- our respective county administrator is Lisa, and Collier and Lee. I don't believe the Charlotte County administrator is here. Is he not? No? COHMISSIONER DeBOER: No, he's not here. Matt DeBoer, for the record. He's not here and he will not be. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Okay. What I think what we're going to try to do is certainly just make it as informal as need be to insure that we can learn from you today, Anita, in being able to be more effective in our workings with the legislature. MS. MITCHELL: Great. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for including me. We're going to do some dialogue. And please forgive my back. At the end or later on I'd like to include those of you in the audience as well. Representative Gay is here to protect the legislative delegation to make sure I don't beat up, offend, or otherwise get rid of the wonderful Florida legislature. A couple of things. Let's dismiss some myths. I am honestly not here to make Lee County, Charlotte, Sarasota, or any of the west coast counties a country and pull off a coup. That was one rumor. I'm not here to apply for a job. Of course, the thought had crossed my mind. Actually, The Mitchell Group does not represent counties, cities, or states. So what I have to say is completely objective. You have a good lobbyist. I'm not here to take his place. So for the media and all the phone calls we got in my office, I hope that answers that. What I would like to do today is maybe lay some groundwork on attitudes. Where I come from -- I don't know whether the years is a commentary on my age, or wisdom comes with that, I guess. So I'll take it, right? -- and kind of let you know where I come from with regard to this whole non-scientific profession that we call lobbying. Actually, The Mitchell Group really changes attitudes more than we change laws. When it comes to changing laws, normally I, though I have done that and participated in it, I usually go out and get a lobbying firm to tag-team with us. So my bent, if you will is to say, like you would do a painting, you wouldn't start with a bad piece of tapestry. And unless you educate and unless you change attitudes, it's a lot more difficult to change laws if you don't have that base. So you're going to hear a lot about that from me because that is in my experience where I think the ball game is. Then changing the laws becomes easy. One of the things that has concerned me over the years that I've been involved in government either as an anchor news person or as a -- with The Gannet and radio, or in the involvement of running for office, running campaigns, or doing what I do as a profession, the attitude of adversarial positions of today's milieu, if you will, concerns me a lot. I think the leadership in the Congress is addressing it. And I think you have to -- if I might, there's some merit in looking at that. You have the we's and the they's, the private sector, the big money, greedy guys, the elected officials who the media beats up on. Then you have this third group called the media. And it seems as though there are walls between all three which does a complete disservice, in my opinion, to those of you who have to try to lead, to those of us that in whatever way try to influence policy in the best sense of the word and to the public. Our new speaker of the house speaks about civility, and I think it might be a word that we kind of take note of. There isn't a lot of it around. And what happens when you get everybody being the bad guys is -- the bottom line is that everybody loses. So in my suggestion list is to start out with a win-win and look at everybody as human beings first. And I know there are days when those of you that are trying to lead counties, particularly on the front lines, and the media out there with a spotlight trying to keep us all accountable. News medias are human individuals, and if you can kind of look at them as that, as are lobbyists and as are private sector corporations, and realize that we all want the same thing. And there's a small -- a very small percentage of every profession that none of us can be very proud of, but that's a very small percentage. And unfortunately in the field of lobbying we get a lot of hits about special interest groups. So I want to talk a little bit about special interest groups which maybe widen a little perspective. You know, effective lobbying doesn't have to be done in back rooms. It doesn't have to be done in the smoke-filled rooms. It makes a good B novel. It makes a good movie. But 98 percent of lobbying or education is done in a very honest, straightforward manner. And if you say -- if you take the adage which I have, if you have an honest elected official and you have an honest information person, a lobbyist, then you're going to have something good come out at the end. If the converse of that is true, it doesn't make any difference how many laws you pass, how much legislation you try to regulate, how much morality you try to legislate. The bottom line is it isn't going to be good. So it's as good as the individual parts, and I really, really believe that. Not that the media should not keep a watchful eye. I think they do a very good purpose when that is done in a manner of which is starting out people are honest until proven otherwise. And I'm going to talk a little bit about the rules and ethics that have been going on in the legislature, because I have some concern. I'm not a registered lobbyist in Tallahassee for the legislature, because I don't lobby them. So there's an objectivity here. But if you really kind of think about what's happening with legislating, for instance, campaign contributions, $100 limits. And I think it was well intended, but I know as the receiver of the phone calls from both sides of the aisle, that when I get phone calls of can you raise $10,000, $100 apiece please, and I say, "Well, who's going to get credit for that $10,0007 Oh, you will." Well, my name isn't on the record list. The $100 givers are, but I've got the influence. Now, you know, I'm from Ohio originally. Common sense. Tell me who that keeps honest. And I've been preaching this up here to deaf ears because of the nervousness, and paranoid, and it doesn't play well, and it's not politically correct, but I really wish the legislature would get around to allowing people to give and report it, and then you know who's giving and who isn't. And that's where the media really, really has a good role. Because if I give $100,000 to Ray Judah, and it's reported, and I get every bond issue in Lee County, the people aren't stupid, and it's almost an insult. And then you have this other subculture going on over here. The good guys can't play that are straight. The bad guys are going to play anyway, and it really doesn't make anybody honest. So it's been a -- it's something I -- and it goes all the way across, not just in the fund-raising area. But you all unfortunately have to raise money; which is, my experience and for those that I know well that run for office hate to do it. I have a great suggestion. Let the media give you free time equal to the number of dollars you have to raise to get your mission out or your message out, and then you won't have to raise money, and none of us will have to give. then everybody will be happy. But since I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, the reality is that some understanding between those of us that give, those of you that run for office, and those that report have to come to some consensus that the world and the people in it aren't all bad, and that the world and the people in it aren't all dishonest. Because if you start with that premise, in my opinion, you can't get there from here. And all of a sudden those of us that are information-givers to those of you who are trying to lead serve no purpose, because you\re scared to death to talk to us. You're not expected to know everything about every issue, and yet where do you get your information? This whole world, whether it's private sector or public sector,media, is built on people and trust, and people and trust is what is going to make a piece of legislation really work. If there's a dishonesty anywhere along that line, you're not going to get what you want anyway that's going to be good for the governance, and eventually you won't be in office. I mean, there's a certain natural flow that, yes, somebody may get away with it for a while, but eventually -- and I think this is all sensitive to some of you in this area -- eventually cream rises to the top and so does that other stuff. If you shine lights, roaches come out, and eventually they get caught. It's a small percentage. It's a sad percentage. But I'd like to look at government, private sector, the county, city, state, staff, bureaucrats, and the media as trying to get there from here together as opposed to this constant tension and struggle which leaves us all in a scared state, fear state, no creativity flows, and it isn't any more honest. It's not making anybody more honest. So that's my kind of grounding. I'd like to see some real open dialogue. Debate is healthy. Disagree without being disagreeable is healthy. Disagree without being disagreeable is healthy. Contrary views are healthy. And dialogue with your local print media and electronic media is really important, and somehow each of you have to take the responsibility to go in there as tough sometimes as it is and as contrary as sometimes the media can be and get your point across. I'm here because last year a couple of the Lee County Commissioners were concerned about partial year assessments of which I knew very little. And I want to share that example with you, because I think it's one that will iljustrate maybe how you get there from here. You have a good lobbyist, and you've got the Florida Association of Counties and that National Association of Counties. Really good organizations. I've worked with both, and please utilize them more if you aren't utilizing them, because they're a great resource at no cost. But what I found out when I went out and kicked some tires just as a favor, more or less to see if I could be of some help, was no one had done the attitude changing. You hadn't gotten the groups together -- the adversarial groups to the table to see what you could negotiate before you ever went to your legislators to try to change the laws; so, therefore, you didn't have a constituency. As much as -- I know Representative Gay who tried to help carry that bill. Senator Kaiser from Pinellas County has been trying to carry it for seven years. I talked to him. he said that problem is I can't get the counties to build a constituency around me. So what you have is associated industries against you. You've got the utilities against you. And I find out later all these problems by sitting down their little concerns could have gone away. Then when you go not just to see your delegation but the leadership and as many legislators as you can when you're in Tallahassee, then you can go to them and say we've already solved your problems for you. Put yourself in their place. You get the same thing. When someone comes to you wanting an issue passed, if they've done all their honest research and all their good work, then you can be the policy-setter without having to go around and try to be an information-gatherer, which you don't have time to do. Then that leaves you time to lead. It's a trickle-down. That's true of the state legislature. It's certainly true in Washington. So I think partial year assessment, including sitting down with some of the legislators that have some concern as to the perception about a tax increase, and certainly sitting down with the media and explaining it until they get it. Don't let them do the 30-second sound bytes and don't you all feed it to them. The other thing I understand is that each of you had decided to send a commissioner a week to Tallahassee, and I'd like to suggest that you pick one person for the session. Imagine if all of us came in here, let's say a lobbying company of 50 people, and every week you saw somebody different, so there's no rapport. There's no relationship going on there so that the information, it's "Hi. Hello. How are you? .... Yes, we understand. We know your issue. Good-bye." You need a critical mass, and so you need to assign maybe one or two people that the legislators see time after time after time so that they're not, oh, here's another one. Are you from Lee? Charlotte? And it's a whiplash. Just think about how many people they see up there during that short, what seems to be interminable two-month session. So it's another tactical suggestion, at least, that I think would maybe be more -- help you be more effective. And then that's where your lobbyist comes in and helps really ground you. And get to know some of them. Get to know some of the legislators. Serve. Find out -- Jack Kemp said recently -- and I love to do this quote, "people care what you know when they know that you care." Legislators are just like you. So each one of them has an agenda every session that's tough on their mind that they're pushing. And as important as our issues may seem, they do have other things on their plate just like you do. I mean, there is no difference. So if you can find out what those are, that helps you change attitudes. That gets you an empathy going. That gets you a relationship and rapport, because now you're identify with that if you can communicate that to them, and I think then you get some consensus. If you can go in to a legislator and say we have talked to all the utility companies in the case of partial year assessment; we have talked to all the businesses that it affects; we have come up with an agreement that they have bought off on; and we have done the best job we know how with the media. Some are comfortable. Some understand it. Some don't. They're also a mirror of the rest of us. but we've done the best job we can. We need some leadership to take this issue forward. I thin your percentages and chances of then getting that passed this year is going to be a lot better rather than going in and just trying to treat the effect and not the cause. Go tinker with the legislation as opposed to building underneath it and giving yourself a base of people. And you know, it was interesting. Someone said to me the other day -- mentioned about special interest groups. And we were in a little dialogue setting like this, and someone said well, you know, all the big corporations that have all the money, they can afford to hire all those special interest groups. And I had to think about it. Special interest groups: Audubon Society, homeowner associations, senior citizens, child-care advocacies, all those nice warm fuzzes. One would say -- and a person did at this dialogue -- Yeah, but they don't have anything to do with money. All of them are good causes, but, see, it's the truth as we all see it. I thin all my causes are good ones. I'm not here -- You know, everyone thinks their truth is the right truth. The Audubon Society is a wonderful organization. It does great thins, but money is attached to it. And if you've ever noticed sometimes they send out applications for membership, and they have an organization they have to keep going, and they have Ralph Nader, Consumer Affairs, all of that, and it's all good. I kind of think, the more special interest groups, the better. Pretty soon, hopefully, we'll all be one. And if we could get the guy on the street voting more to have a special interest, I'd even be more tickled. So when you hear that word special interest, influence peddling, I'd like to see all the citizenry in this country have a special interest and lobby. And I don't necessarily have to agree, but the more debate, the more issues that are on the table, the more we can be candid, the more we have dialogue, the better we are served. You know, sometimes I -- as I watch the county commission, particularly in today's world where you guys are just flat on the firing line, and people kind of isolate you as the commission, forgetting that you have children hat go to school. You live in this community the same as people that do what I do or businesses or whatever. We don't want this to be a bad community. Somehow in your leadership role that message has got to get out to the citizenry, to the people who write about it, because I don't think they get it. They really think we're all here, everybody -- it's just kind of a bad world, and maybe that's what we'll create if we think it hard enough. But I thin if you change your mind about that, you change what happens, and I think that's a lot about lobbying. Let me just kind of hit some -- and I'm going to throw some questions up. A little note I made. If you as leaders who are on the front lines can use your influence to make the political process come alive with truth and civility, to challenge and to question, to encourage debate, to disagree without being disagreeable, to constantly reach out for opinions and new, fresh ideas on all the many challenges that face you , regardless of criticism, if you believe in your issue, the governance and its people are well served. And that is what lobbying is really all about. You know, kick some tires. Say it. It's long overdue. We've had 20 years of manipulation, and that's the worst side of lobbying, of education, of information building. It's not manipulation we want. It's good, clear communication. It's being passionate about what you believe. It's being careful of what clients you take on my side of the aisle. Somehow through all of the perceptions and the rumors that you as politicians and people in may profession face the voice of sanity. This civility issue has to come through. At least you, the media, and those of use that have had some impact on decisions make those decisions in a vacuum for fear of either being media-bashed or not having the majority agree with you. Leadership in any arena, public, private, news media, isn't any more a straight line than history is. It loops and it's curved. It curves. And good and honest information is yours and all of our best weapon. I would hope -- and I think I see a change. I thin I see it at least on the national level. You can't have an influence unless you show up. Support those county people who say to you that we need some budget to go to Washington, because we can't get grants unless you knock on the door, unless you have someone who really understands the process. And so I talk a lot to county, city, public information officers, lobbyists that work for the counties, either inside or outside, who really are frustrated, because that's the last thing anybody pays attention to. They can't get heard in the bigness of Washington unless you've a presence there and do your homework well and research, and make sure that those lobbying firms that tag-team with your in-house people are straightforward and honest but that they can get through the door, that they've got the process to get an ear. Otherwise, Lee County's grant system, all the things that you need money from -- maybe it'll be less than that since they're going to send it all home to you. But in any event, don't ever think that if you're not there that the check will come, because you have to have a presence. Same as in Tallahassee. A little easier maybe in Tallahassee. Washington is kind of a bigger maze. And if I could impart anything, it would be never settle for the status quo. Create a tension is good. A little tension was created by inviting me here. I got all kinds of phone calls wondering why I was here, to share some thoughts for -- and wisdom for whatever it's brought me over the years, mostly of the mistakes I've made. Think about radical ideas. It's refreshing these days. Go along to get along. Josh, why would you want to be sitting on the firing line? If you want to do that, I've got a couple of professions that you could probably enter into. You guys are really, really lucky. You can make change here much more than in Tallahassee, I believe, although I did run for the state legislature. At one time I thought that's where you could make a difference. Never did I think you could make one in Washington, let the record show. But here where you sit every day with real lives and real people, that's exciting. And all of -- most of the county commissioners I've met have a passion about governance, and most of the staff really wants to get something done. Now, if we could just bring all those partnerships together with those of us on the private sector side who have some ideas we'd like to bring before you, from the media side, please, to have this kind of dialogue. You know, I'd be for roundtables every day if I could get people like you who are interested enough. Say something radical once a month. I have that on my mirror. Now, having laid all those philosophical thoughts on you, I've got a few questions to ask you, and then I'd like to open it up to questions and answers. Do you want to be an effective player in the state capitol or in Washington, D.C.? Are you willing to take the time to struggle with a plan that might blaze some new trails in that area? Would you be willing -- and funded. Would you be willing to take the time to change attitudes about your issues before you go about changing laws? And have you identified added resources you have available at no cost, such as FACO and NACO, and are you using them effectively? Those are kind of a technical or question litmus test. and then I'd like to be able to try to at least answer anything that you might have on your mind. But that ends the philosophical bent for for the day, and now you might have some specifics, or hopefully you will have. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Anita, if I could -- and I appreciate the presentation. Commissioner St. Cerny is the vice chairman for Lee County. So I think out of respect and courtesy to Commissioner St. Cerney, I wanted to give the intro because I know you, but Commissioner St. Cerny -- MS. HITCHELL: Commissioner, nice to see you. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: -- certainly would end up basically calling on their commissioners if they had questions and can hopefully have the interchange. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Thank you for the presentation. We will open it up to commissioners if they have any questions and/or comments. I think one thin you need to hit on, although you kind of went over the surface but you didn't get into any depth with it and I think the biggest problem local governments have to deal with is the difference between perception and reality. And local governments by nature do a very poor job in disseminating information, factorial information, so that the public is relying on thwarted views of what does and does not happen, misstatements, half truths, that type of thing. And that's one of the biggest problems that we have to deal with day in and day out, and how do we as elected officials at the local level. And I think you were correct when you said we are the ones that are on the firing line. Change perceptions, and that's the hardest thing I think we have to deal with. And, you know, nothing against our legislative delegation and certainly our congressional people, but they're out of sight, out of mind. I mean, when they're in session there in Tallahassee, they're in the Tallahassee game. They're not in the Lee County game. They're in the Tallahassee game. And by the counties coming together last year, and I applaud those efforts. We felt with the united voice and having a presence, that we could reshape and mold some of the legislation that was being passed and enacted to benefit us locally. And right, wrong, or indifferent for whether that is true and factual, it takes a little more impact than just a pie-in-the-sky dream of being able to go up and do that. I mean, I think Commissioner Judah felt that frustration probably more than anybody I've seen in the recent time, and that's the hard part. You know, when they get up there, we aren't first and foremost on their mind. Their local constituents aren't first and foremost on their mind. And when you mentioned earlier, you know, the ugly phrase of special interest and, quote, big money lobbyists and who's taking who to dinner, who does in fact have the ear of those legislators? Do we as local-elected officials? I don't think so. And so until you start truly altering the perception of the difference and the relationships between local officials, state officials, and the federal officials and you build a consensus, it's hard to destine any change. Now, if you rely on press conferences, roundtable discussions to get that message out, it doesn't work. If you use this data to get that message out -- and you said, you know, once a day or once a week et radical -- that's fine until they serve you your reputation in your hand because you got radical and passionate on a subject you truly believed in, and they twist it around and wrap it around your neck. And then you sit back and you say, well, go along, get along. Hey, I'm telling you. In local government, a lot of those things sound good. That's not the way it plays. And those are the frustrations that we deal with every day here. And honest, frank discussion, that's fine. But does it get reported that way? Very seldom. We're dealing in a world of perception that does not allow for the true integrity and honesty of the opinions being addressed to be explained to the people who should be paying attention to what we're doing. MS. HITCHELL: Commissioner, I think that is -- COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: That's my sermon. MS. HITCHELL: Absolutely. I think it's a frustration for all of us. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: And I hate doing a soap box, but '- MS. HITCHELL: No. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: -- those are some of the frustrations of being a local elected official. MS. HITCHELL: Well -- and those perceptions, unfortunately, eventually become a reality, which is why I made the comment that it is incumbent upon the media, whether they listen or not -- I mean, whatever they want to write about what I said, it doesn't matter to me. It's only a nickel out there. You know, if you think you have more than that to lose, none of us ought to be in this game to begin with. But the fact of the matter is they have a responsibility even if it's not a sexy issue, even if somebody didn't get a DUI that's elected, but maybe they had a radically good idea for this community, and it deserves a hearing. One of the things that I've suggest to other commissions -- not necessarily in Florida; two from outside the state that I've done some seminars with -- is use your cable. Look at your budget. If you have town meetings, if you have roundtables -- Are your commission meetings televised? COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Hm-hm. MS. Hitchell: Actually, that helps a lot. You know that. It helps alot. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: It gives you the power of a forum, though. MS. HITCHELL: Well, no, it does more than that. I have heard it many times in Palm Beach County with our commissioners shopping -- we have a lot of ladies on our commission -- in Burdines. A little lady behind the perfume counter asked my friend, Commissioner Roberts, she said, you know, I saw you on the commission meeting last week, and then I read it in the paper. Was it the same meeting? It's amazing what -- I had suggested to Palm Beach County they start to take a poll as to how many people watch that inner channel. So that's one vehicle. It's like C-Span. Don't tell me what I heard. I heard it with my own ears. I can figure it out for myself. I don't have some analyst up there trying to tell me. I'm smart enough to know what I just heard. that really helps, because you've got a clear shot. The other thing that we're taking a look at in a couple of counties that I'm having a good time with is hosting a roundtable on cable, because it's so inexpensive, or going to your cable companies and ask them if they'll give 30 minutes. But make it a format -- and that's what I'm working on right now with one county. Hake it a format that's fun and interesting that people will want to watch. You know, government really isn't dry. I don't know how people say that. Jan, how are you? MR. WINTERS: Good to see you. MS. MITCHELL: How is government boring? Or someone says, "Oh, you're involved in politics. That's an interesting hobby." Same thing with bridge and golf. Do you buy groceries, Madam? Yes. Well, you're involved in politics. I don't know how to break that news to you. it's kind of up to us, and I couldn't agree with you more. But it's also -- on the other side of the corn, we can't wring our hands and whine. We've got to try some new things. We've got to change some things. We can't keep doing what we're doing, because it isn't working. And now you all are really having to take o some responsibility and policy, and it's not just worrying about the traffic lights and the garbage anymore. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Sure. MS. MITCHELL: So I couldn't agree more, but there's some things I think we can do. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: I'd like to open it up to the fellow commissioners who would like to address anything. COHMISSIONER FARRELL: Vice Chairman, if I might. COHMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Oh, just address her directly. You don't have to go through the chair. COHMISSIONER FARRELL: Okay. Government is only boring when we talk too long, and I thin that's what does it. And both yes, ye, and not were the answers to your questions. And by the way, we are in the process right now of starting probably a biweekly debate amongst the commissioners, and may go to a team debate where we actually let each commissioner from an opposing point of view pick one other person to sit with them. I've also talked to our local radio station about airing it live. I didn't go to the cable yet, because a lot more people will be able to listen to the radio while they're at work or whatever else they're doing. So that's my first step -- or our first step at doing that. And one of the reasons we're doing that is that we have very civil meetings, would you say? The chairman was directed to take control of the meetings, and I don't let meetings get out of hand. And what I found is that by doing that I have a tendency sometimes to maybe throw kind of a damp towel over a debate also. So we're going to set up the rules for debate, and we are going to do that on a regular basis. MS. MITCHELL: Terrific. COHMISSIONER FARRELL: Could you touch a little bit on -- in lobbying in Tallahassee. One of the things that I'm having difficulty with is the relationship of all the -- you know, we have a feeling that we should go to our specific legislators or our senators, but yet below them they have their own staff. There are committees, and then you also have your state bureaucratic staff. How do those fit into the lobbying picture? MS. MITCHELL: I probably got a little more radical. I know that you're all going to find that hard to believe. I thought about how that works. I'd like to see more lobbyists help you all build relationships, and this isn't necessarily -- please -- on any of your lobbyists, because I have not watched them. So that wouldn't be fair. But what I do see a lot is the big-time lobbyists up in Tallahassee were very effective and very good, and I understand their plate is full. Hopefully that's maybe why my niche is there. Their plate is full. So they go over there and hit a piece of legislation and leave the poor clerk or commissioner or whatever area they're lobbying kind of standing out in the hall trying to find the ladies' or men's room not knowing where to go, and ultimately they trickle into their comfort level, which is where their home legislator lives. I'd like to see -- and this is really what The Mitchell Group has marketed is you guys don't have time to hand-hold. The other part of that that really concerns me is a lot of lobbyists are threatened by, my gosh, if Commissioner Judah or Commissioner St. Cerny or any of you should get to know a legislator, maybe we won't have a job. That's silly. Silly and insecure. Give it away. The more you all build relationships, the more your information people and your lobbyists help you do that, the longer they have a job, because they're doing a good job. Now a lot of times they just don't have time, and there's where I think if they're not threatened, the should call on some of us that don't make a living off of the counties, and we'll volunteer a little time. You can get two-million -- it ain't me -- two-million-dollar lobbyists up there. Do a little Mother Theresa work. Every year I have one Mother Theresa project, and, by God, those guys that are making a million bucks a year are going to help me or they're going to have to listen to me. So they help. And you can call on them. Each of them have clients like I do that eventually come before you all in some issue or another. Let them give something. Let them give it away. We make a decent enough living. What, an hour with Ray last session to kind of kick some tires? They're out there. And I would suggest to Paul Piller, go call on us. You know, let us do a little community service. It's good for our soul. So you've got a lot of resources up there, and what we can do is network you and get you to sit down and have a soda with the speaker. It's the wrong side of the aisle for me, but there are friends of mine that are on that side of the aisle, and you need to do that. They need to see that you're not, you know, quote, just another city-county commission, because for years there's been a condescending attitude. Why? Because we didn't understand it. Most of them never had to sit in that seat. And they're good guys too. It's jut -- you know, it's like ships, and nobody is coming together with a consensus. Like you've done a lot by suggesting debate, by getting on the radio. But in terms of Tallahassee, get up there and get to know -- You can't know all the house members, and you can't know all the senators, but you can know who the senior players are, who the leaders -- where the leadership is, and the senior staff people. Get to know them. Get to like them. Assume that they're honestly there for you. I know that's it's going to be hard, but change your mind, and sometimes change is what happens to you. Assume they're with you. It's kind of like those of us on this side. We have an attitude about bureaucrats. We kind of think they don't understand business. We kind of think that they don't want to see business work. Well,, when you go in with that attitude, half the time that's what you get. If you change it, it does make a difference. Don't give up, because I hear your frustration and I see it. I've experienced it. It's not fun, but we can change it. One by one you can change it. Go to a couple of your local legislators who you know, like. Sit down and talk to them. Tell them what your frustration is. I've said over and over again, just once a year all your delegation comes and meets with you. You tell them your wish list. They go to Mecca. That doesn't make any sense to me. I think there should be constant dialogue, as much as time will permit, and I'm certainly sensitive to your schedules and theirs too. But how can you talk to your legislators in this arena and -- God love government in the sunshine -- get hot with them, tell them you don't agree with them, really argue with them in a public forum? If all of you do that together, you'll all take a hit on the press side. They'll love to talk about the fight. So what? Your legislators will hear you. And do it often, because there's not debate. There's no dialogue. There is here's what we want. Everybody -- you know, it's kind of like the wonderful story of Orlando when Disney first went in, and everybody was going out with their wheelbarrows collecting the gold falling from the trees. And one day they all got out there and they all came back with empty wheelbarrows, and finally they had to talk to one another, because Disney wasn't the answer. It's very similar here. You know, Washington isn't the answer. Tallahassee isn't the answer. But together, county, city, state, national, is the answer and private sector and those that report it. So it isn't the we's and they's. And I would really, really ask you to take some time to get to know where they're coming from as well, and tell them. Talk to them. Tell them, You know what? We don't feel there's a connection here, and we've got to be connected; otherwise, it'll never work. And I feel it. I mean, I can talk to you all. I mean, this is all across the country. Nobody's connected from one body to the other. It's they're doing it to me or -- and you all can -- you can change that just by doing it, just by stepping up. I don't know who the chairman of your delegation is this time. But whoever it is, I'd sit down with him and say we're not going to do this anymore. We're not going to give you a wish list and just put the responsibility on you to go up there and get us some money. We're going to help you. How can we help you? You know, just for starters. Maybe it might work. COMMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Further questions or comments by other commissioners? COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Anita, I don't want to get into the specifics of partial year versus a proprietary fee, which is actually supported by the property appraisers and is something we're going to have to consider perhaps as a compromise in order to get the industry supportive of some changes to provide equity in the tax laws. If we were able to get a roundtable discussion with the industry, that should perhaps be occurring within the next month or so? MS. MITCHELL: Yes, because you want to get up there before the committees start it, but don't just have the industry. Have at least your local legislators buy off, because I know some of them have some concern on that issue. But I know one thing, though, you'll never get consensus without talking about it. So I do know that in the last couple of days I've heard there's a little bit of concern, but half the time it's concern because of misunderstanding. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: If we can reach a compromise prior to session, that would be wonderful. If we can't, I guess my concern is the leverage always seems to be on the side of those that contribute to the campaigns of the legislators. In other words, the Florida Association of Counties just doesn't seem to have the leverage as those high-powered consultants, lobbyists working for those individuals, corporations that do contribute heavily to the legislators' campaigns. And I say that, Anita, because of the troubling aspect of having, I thought, a very influential senator. And Fred Dudley, I really applaud his efforts in trying to push partial year last year, and he couldn't even get it heard in a committee, you know, chaired by Mario Diaz Bolar, Ways and Means. He couldn't even get it on the floor and at no fault of Fred. MS. MITCHELL: No. And I don't think it's -- well, reality check. Certainly people who give money get some attention, but I think that's really overblown, because the Florida Association of counties, collectively, has the biggest special interest group in the state. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: We don't seem to have any influence, though. MS. MITCHELL: Well, but -- COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Something's wrong. MS. MITCHELL: What I'm trying to say to you is that we have the numbers, and by using them -- a little bit different model -- the reason that Fred wasn't able to get it through was because you had some real opposition, and they represent a lot of constituents as well. So, you know, it's up to the communicator. It's up to you all to put in perspective for those people that affect your issue up there, how much is involved. Not in dollars. In votes. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Does that mean, tough, the industry is going to set the standard and the threshold that's acceptable? Because if it's not acceptable to the Florida Association Counties, and we go to battle, and I hope we can come up with a compromise, I don't see us having the leverage simply because of the influence that the industry has. MS. MITCHELL: I think that if you sit down with industry, if you make a big communications' deal out of this, if you educate in a bigger arena -- I mean, let the media come in. If you're willing to take the chance that there's going to be some sparks fly, which I think is good. What's wrong with that? You know, we're not doing anything bad. The more education, the better, articulate people that can communicate your issue. Always put up the things that are wrong with it first saying I know these are your concerns, and take care of them so people aren't sitting there on the defensive. It's all about communication. Do everything you know how to do in that. If you lose it, you can't compromise it. You got a lot more momentum, because you can go to Senator Dudley. You can go to Representative Gay. You can go to the speaker and say, Wait a minute. We have brought industry in here. Here's our chart. We've explained that this is not a tax increase. We have done dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Now, having said all of that, if you guys aren't going to pay attention, we are going to organize the Florida Association of Counties, and we're going to go back to our individual counties and we're going to go to the media day after day till you get it. It isn't just about money, Ray. Honestly. It's really about passionate -- but you can't have a huge list. One or two things. That's the other thing that your county areas want that are really important. Now, I can tell you. I am not a big money-giver. I do not have, you know, General Motors behind me, but every year I get a Mother Theresa bill passed. It's tenaciousness. It's communication. It's getting constituency. I'll tell you. I would go to some of the lobbyists. I'll volunteer. I would go to -- there's some of us that can go up there and change attitudes and ask them to volunteer their time. You've got them right here in your county that are public sector lobbyists like myself or communications people or networkers, along with Paul, and build your own -- build a constituency. Don;t get spooked by the money issue, big business, et cetera. I've seen one little old lady change attitudes, and she'd get laws changed, and all of you are in a position to have some leverage to do that. I mean, I've seen people that are -- just the little people be able to do it. And there are some of us that would organize a volunteer group for the Florida Association of Counties for you to call on in addition to. You don't have all the money in the world. You're not paying your lobbyist $200,000, although I'd like to find one of those jobs if anybody knows where there is one. But, by nature, government doesn't spend a lot of money on professional lobbyists. Why not augment it? Put us to the test. Hake us give something back. We come here before -- not necessarily Lee County, but certainly whatever county I have a client in all the time and ski you, gee, would you like to buy this widget? And we get to build a nice house and pay our light bill and raise our kids. Why shouldn't we give something back to counties that we do business before? And I wouldn't be one bit embarrassed about asking us. We can take, you know, a couple hours in a two-month period of time. You get enough of that. I mean, I can name you 10 that -- better than I. I mean, I can get you to the 10 better than I can walk into the speaker's office or the president of the senate and get their ear. And it seems to me if all of you are doing that and you're building a bigger arena, it doesn't matter how much money is out there. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Okay. Thanks. MS. HITCHELL: I'd like to know if any of you that are on the real receiving line of all of this have any questions. MR. WINTERS: Anita, from the experience that I've had and I've worked with you in Tallahassee too, it seems to me, to be effective, you need to establish a presence during the legislative session, a continuing presence. We would probably need to work with our delegation to determine what is the best approach and who that should be to have that presence and to call up the commissioners and staff when necessary for committee meetings and for other opportunities to give input. Some of the issues that I think we've been most successful with, the real estate transfer tax, local auction sales tax, we viewed it as a multi-year process. We had -- through the input with the delegation, we identified the major offices in the cabinet, worked with them to try to have input in drafting it. When we went to Tallahassee we brought a large group. For example, in the real estate transfer tax, if you recall, when we went to Tallahassee we brought the board of Realtors with us to show their support for it. The local auction sales tax, we had our business community saying we need this tax ourselves in order to support the infrastructure to comply with the state-mandated growth management act. And the more narrow I think the focus is, the more limited the issues, the broader the coalition of interest that we could assemble, and the more tenacious we are, probably the more successful. I don't think anything typically happens in one session, but it's a longer term game plan. MS. HITCHELL: This partial year assessment is puzzling me, because it's been up on the table so long. So that's what got my interest when Ray gave me a background on it, and I just was curious. I thought, you know, it's common sense for one thing, and I don't understand why it would crate all this negative opposition. But when I went and listened to the opposition, it was the truth as they saw it, and they were a little confused. I think you should be able to get this passed. And, Jan, I couldn't agree with you more in term of presence. One of the comments as I was preparing for this -- and I went out and did a little home work for you. There is a lot of confusion when you keep sending up different commissioners. Although, you know, it's good for the commission, I think, to go up and be exposed. It's good for all of you to have some understanding and some exposure up there but a spokesperson for the session that your constituency up there that you need gets to know. And after the myth about Clydes (phonetic) -- isn't a myth. There's an awful lot of good conversation over dinner. And luckily the legislature in their infinite wisdom didn't put themselves in the government with sunshine, so you can have that dialogue with them. You know, I think people like doing business with people they know, like, and trust. That's a radical thought. So the more you get to know them the better. But presence is presence in Tallahassee. And if you're looking for grants in Washington, same thing there. You have to make a commitment to this. The L word, politically incorrect L work, that lobbying is not something that anybody even likes to talk about, I think it's vital. I think your public information people, the people who got to Washington of you, Paul Piller, those people are invaluable to this county, and the tri-county area coming together, the three - brings more muscle. As you know, some of the south Florida east coast counties are bigger. So, I don't know, maybe -- I don't know what Dad does to get what Dade gets, but they're doing something right. I think it's numbers or key positions in Tallahassee. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Well, the same with the panhandle counties, the smaller counties all these years. Do you see that changing now, because they've been controlling the committees? MS. MITCHELL: Well, I will tell you just candidly, nothing to do with my topic today, but I was very concerned to see that FACO did not pass the one-rule, one-county vote. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Yeah. MS. MITCHELL: And the interesting thing about that was they used the weighted vote to vote on whether they wanted the one county, one vote. I'm thinking, well, you can't get there from here. And I -- Although, I'm proud of Palm Beach County. They were for it. I was really -- because good governance in that arena doesn't come forth. Don't give up. I was really kind of nervous in listening to the very smaller counties say what do we need to be here for. I think Commissioner Manning is coming up as a president. Commissioner Roberts is coming up. All of those people are dedicated to getting that one vote. Also, don't leave out your league of cities. You know, the two entities coming together, that's another pretty critical mass. And Mike Sidik (phonetic) does a good job over there. You've got a good director, and Rod. Really good. And I think you're going to see -- You know, he's relatively new in the last year. You're going to see more real proactive coming out of FACO, more so than in the past. And I think proactive is a good keyword. Getting back to what Jan Winters said. Consistency, tenacity, good communication, and presence. Get out of the paranoia mind-set. Everybody's not bad. The Legislators are there to help. They get just as preoccupied as young that two-month session, and they need to understand really where you're coming from. They don't get it. It isn't because they don't care. It's that I don't think there's been any kind of relationship building. You know, when somebody has empathy for another person's position, a lot more gets done. But they kind of feel -- I don't think they ever get in your shoes, and I think it's because of the barriers, the way the system -- the process has been set up. And it sounds to me like you all have been extremely proactive in breaking down some of those barriers, some of those walls. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Well, we're certainly trying. Questions over there from Charlotte or Collier County Commissioners? COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I think we're essentially sitting here listening. I agree with the idea that we need to concentrate on only one or two issues each legislative session. And this particular session that just past, the effort to put our group together came so late in the season, you might say that we really didn't have the opportunity to discuss amongst ourselves precisely what this issues were going to be other than the partial year assessment. I think both Lee and Collier were trying to work on that, and certainly Charlotte, I had heard, was really interested in it too. Our hope, though, is that this year -- and I think we talked about it at the last joint meeting between the three counties that we do want a workshop what our issues are going to be this spring, and our effort, at least my thought, is not to lobby our delegation. My gosh, if they're not on our side, we need to get some new people in there, but we need to find out from them how we can help them. Who do we need to go to talk to to shore up and buttress the idea? I don't have anybody in mind, no, but to get information from them as to who they feel we should go and talk to to find out what the opposition is, what their ideas are. And if it's myth, if it's truth, do we need to change our approach? Do we need to convince them? And hopefully as these counties move forward in this, that's exactly what we'll be doing. MS. MITCHELL: Bettye, you hit it -- you really made a good point when you say -- ask how you can help them, just the same as we all in our individual communities need to ask our local officials. How can we help? We complain a lot, but how can we help? When you go to serve and ask what someone else's needs are, you're automatically building a rapport. And it's a human, not a mannequin. You don't have to be elected. It's a human nicety. I think, unfortunately, our today's climate, particularly with the media, is building adversarial positions. And I think your legislative delegation -- the second point you made was incredibly correct. Your delegation is with you. So I know that's where the natural comfort zone is, to go visit those that you know. And they're real nice. You know, "Use the phone. Use my office." But it doesn't get you anywhere. That's why I was suggesting to you that either you get some of us that know the system up there, and we'll take you around to introduce you to some people if your own lobbyist doesn't have time, because that makes it tough. They're watching the bills, you know. I'm changing attitudes. So that's another suggestion, or people that you might know on staff up there that you made friends with. COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. Well, that was another point, too, that I thought Mr. DeBoer, Chairman from Charlotte County, made early on in his observations was that most of the legislative work is done Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. And he was suggesting we reserve Fridays or even Mondays, if you go up sooner, to meet with the legislative staffs and to meet with the agency staffs so that the other 10 months of the year we have names and faces that go together and we know that we're real live people and not just some voice hanging out there. MS. MITCHELL: Exactly. There's an element of public relations. You know, when you talk about lobbying, I think part one of the segments of lobbying is certainly good community and public relations. And I know that for a while my home county did the reception up at the governorls club for Palm Beach County Day and Lee County Day. And I have a puzzle, and I throw this out to all your good creative brains is how we can make that work better. The social is wonderful. Everybody eats the shrimp and then goes home, and therels nothing. But how can you make policy interesting in the midst of a very congenial atmosphere, which is the best place to have, I think, sometimes good policy discussion. So you might want to take a look at that vehicle, the Lee County Day, and see if there isnlt, form a marketing PR point of view, something better that you can do to enhance that, to make a statement in a good, positive way. But, you know, numbers do count. Votes do count. The cabinet pays attention. They do run state-wide. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Anita, just out of curiosity, Greg Alan Gay was considering to volunteer to sponsor the partial year in the house when it appeared that Lee Constantine wasnlt interested in moving it. MS. MITCHELL: Mm-hm. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: But he was, I guess by house parliamentary procedures, prohibited from taking it over unless Lee Constantine was willing to withdraw as a sponsor. Whols going to determine if, say, Greg decides to sponsor partial year this coming session, wishes to do so in the house and the delegate wishes to do so in the Senate? Whols going to make the determination whether itls perhaps Constantine again who is going to end up sitting on it or Greg Alan Gay who would be proactive in trying to push it? MS. MITCHELL: Thatls where, Ray, youlre -- What Bettye was saying is so helpful, is to get up there early. Decide who you want to be your leaders. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: But do we make that decision or does the president or the speaker of the house? MS. MITCHELL: Well, therels two things. If this area is particularly pushing it, then itls smart to to to Fred maybe and Greg. But then give them -- Before you go to them, give them the help they need. Let them know that youlye talked with utilities, youlye talked with the home builders. Youlye talked with all the opposition. Give them all the ammunition so that at least theylre a little more -- theylre not taking on this huge controversial issue in a vacuum. Now, after that, thatls what leadership is about. And if somebody is afraid therels going to be a bad editorial in the newspaper, then -- excuse my candor -- but we all should be doing day-care centers and not doing what welre doing, or you know, being playground supervisors. If youlre in this game, itls a tough game. If youlre here to make change, itls not easy. And if the media is going to take us -- if they donlt understand it or they disagree with it, therels another day, but you have your mission. you know, itls wonderful to have everybody on board, and with good skill I think you can get a good portion on board. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Commissioner Coy just came in by the way. Commissioner, any questions? MS. MITCHELL: Commissioner, how are you? COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Anita Mitchell. COMMISSIONER COY: Sorry Iim late. MS. MITCHELL: But I think it starts early, Ray. You canlt get up there and -- and I think they get a little whiplashed up there. Then you find out who has some really good backbone, what leadership is. If theylre going to be skimpy on you, you know, one more response and youlre going to run away, that -- controversial bills are tough. Titls tough times. It takes tough people. And, quite frankly, what I think all of us recently have seen is we donlt care necessarily if we agree with every issue of our legislators or congressmen. Just tell me the truth. Don't tell me dirt's diamonds. I can regulate my life. If you tell me it's dirt, I'm a big girl. I can handle that. But if I'm thinking it's diamonds and it's really dirt, my life's a mess. So you don't have to any longer. It's politically correct not to always do the popular thing. And if somebody gets up and fights, great. That's the system. And hopefully the media will continue to be more responsible. But if they're not, you're there because you want to make change. And if what Commissioner St. Cerny said is true, and the media pounds on you enough so you don't get re-elected, do you really want to represent something you don't believe? And that's a personal question everybody has to ask when they take on this incredible job that you all have. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Adam, did you have a question? COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: I've heard you refer to going in and changing attitudes and so forth. One of the things that did catch my attention that I think I'll need to pay a little more attention to was learning more about what the legislators' agenda is, and that strikes me as something that I need to work on. I think from our delegation we're getting a lot of assistance, and one of our representatives, in particular, I've begun meeting monthly with him during the interim. And although where we seem to have the best luck, it was not so much legislative items but getting our representatives to assist us with staff on a state level and getting some good decisions out of staff. MS. MITCHELL: Invariably. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Now, where I'm still having some trouble is I recognize that you're telling me that you need to get outside of your own delegation and change attitudes. The problem that I see, as I watch the pace those guys are running in during the session, you're not going to have time to change any attitudes during that session. I mean, not if I'm not -- it takes time to change some attitudes. And what I'm trying to figure out is the difference -- what's the most effective way to establish your presence, whether it's spending your time focusing on a small group of individuals who have contacts that if they give the message and you're accompanying them, will that have more impact than -- or, otherwise, if I'm just going up there and trying to get to all the players, I'm making cold calls. MS. MITCHELL: Exactly. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: And so I'm trying to figure out what you're telling me is the more effective way of establishing a presence. And also, quite frankly, I have a hard time managing to get in the game and be a player, you know, because a lot of these socials and things, they cost a lot of money if you want to get in and play. And quite frankly, I haven't got that kind of money. MS. MITCHELL: Exactly. And that also becomes the chicken-and-the-egg kind of thing. I you did have it, would you get criticized in the media by perception? You know, he's a high roller. He's a player. All very, very good questions. And an answer to one of them is to start early. You can change -- There's two kinds of attitudes. One is if they had a bad attitude -- they, the legislature, about Lee, Charlotte and Collier County. They don't. So what I'm saying is when -- specific attitude change about a partial year assessment. There is a perception by a group that isn't exactly accurate. It never is. Anyway, it's my truth, your truth, and then the real truth somewhere in-between. So there's where you start, Now if they won't come to the table, you've got a different kind of issue. And then I would call on some people that do have some muscle up there to make sure that the president of Florida Power & Light and all of the other entities - I won't pick on them; I'll be getting letters -- get a phone all saying, Excuse me, but my county commission has a very important issue. It involves you. You're on the other side of the aisle. We're trying to bring some consensus here. What do you mean you don't have time to attend? See, that's where your dialogue with your legislator really can help. You know, you do all that you need to do, all that you can do. And when you get stuck on that level, that's what the good legislators are there to do. In terms of the social things, there's an awful lot that goes on in Tallahassee that doesn't cost a lot of money. And it is incumbent upon you to maybe -- I don't know -- Lee County has a public information officer. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Right. MS. MITCHELL: How much does he interact with your lobbyist you have here, because Paul is there, you know, watching and tracking bills in real-time? But you've got a public relations -- I don't know if I'm going to make some more work here and a couple of -- probably enemies -- but how much -- you know, and a public information officer is very, very good at public relations. So how much utilization in that arena can he be or she be of some help in laying out some good, creative, interesting marketing, because you are --what you're doing, you're marketing your county's plans. And then the next is for those of you that have relationships and friends up there, ask us. You know, there's specific events. There's specific -- That's why I said if all of you go up there every week, you get those that vote up there with a whiplash. But all of us can take you to the -- for instance, if you were to call and say I need to go see Speaker Joe Smith, if I have that relationship, absolutely. It takes 10 minutes. It does made a difference when you walk in the office with someone that has a relationship with that elected official. If somebody calls and you called or somebody you know in the community that you like and you trust and you had a relationship with brings Joe Smith in, it means a lot more to you. So that's why I was suggesting maybe Florida Association of Counties can be of some help there. They've got some -- Paul can be of some help there. But I think in fairness to time, you know, you might utilize your PIO officer and then find out who your lobbyists know in terms of people that have good relationships in Tallahassee. I'll supply you with a list. I love to put them to work. Does that help? I mean, does that break it down for you a little bit? COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: A little bit. MS. MITCHELL: Are you going to be spending a lot of time during session in Tallahassee? COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: I did last session, and I suspect I may again this one and hopefully prior to it. MS. MITCHELL: Have you ever thought -- or does the counties allow this -- and I don't know under these wonderful ethics stuff. Do you have a budget that you could take out three key legislators? For instance, if you went to Dave Bitnet (phonetic) or Representative Gay and said here is who is key to our partial assessment issue and here is the staff person of that key. Would you help me organize a lunch or a dinner for the five of us to go dialogue, if you were the county commissioner that's representing this area on the issue? You see, that takes them out of that, but do it now. Get some kind of a calendar set now. Because you're right; once you're in the war they don't have time to, you know, have tea. So try to get them ahead of time. Identify. And that really does help, and it isn't because you're buying dinner. Honestly. They're, in fact, doing -- I mean, how many dinners can you go to -- COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: No, I didn't figure it was the dinner itself, but it's providing the setting. MS. HITCHELL: Exactly. And if you're not talking about taking a hundred -- you know, having a cocktail party for 140, but rather, are there budgets allowed that you could take out three or four people that directly affect your issue along with your local legislator that could be the facilitator for you, that maybe if the law allows it -- COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I can answer that question, I think. Mr. Dotrill and I went to Tallahassee earlier this year on what we called -- it was a fairly important issue -- with some members of the public who had a good deal of information on it. And we concluded our meeting, and it was a very successful conclusion. We went to lunch afterwards, and I paid for lunch and submitted the bill to our finance office, and I was reimbursed $6.00 per person regardless of the cost. So it was a great lunch, and I didn't mind picking up the rest of the bill on it, because it was a very successful meeting. And it was not all that much of an extra bill, but I must admit that our finance offices will limit the amount of the expenditure. MS. HITCHELL: And the commission can't override that on exception, or is it just more trouble than it's worth and more press than you need? COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It's probably more difficult to do than '- MS. HITCHELL: See, you can't even set up, I mean, under today's rules. That's why I said if you assume that 99 percent of the people that are elected are honest and want to do a good job, then you wouldn't have these silly rules. COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah, we have per diem allowances, and we're held to that unless we -- I would presume, unless we have special legislation from the commission to allow it. MS. HITCHELL: Can you put in a budget ahead of time saying I'd like to have $400 during legislative session to take -- to use for -- COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I don't know. I'd have to ask Mr. Dotrill. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Perception. COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: He puts the budget together. MS. HITCHELL: Perception? But then the question comes is do you care? I mean, if you know you're not doing anything wrong -- and the media is really going to be -- I mean, I'm -- I haven't been part of that group for a while. But reasonableness; this does not exist at all? COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: Well, I would say that for -- at least our experience has been, that we may be able to gradually work towards something like that. Like, we took a certain amount of heat just over even renting the apartment and so forth last year. But I think, all in all, the community decided that, you know, that it worked out well, but we're going to have to kind of make sure that we're showing more benefit than cost with each step. It's going to take a little time, because those kinds of things are viewed very suspiciously. MS. HITCHELL: I honestly believe that the public -- in just looking at polls that we do, the public is not paying -- that whatever they read in the printed word is all right and all knowing and -- I mean, I see in our newspaper everybody being endorsed last time lost. Hello. COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: Actually, for my election I got no endorsements from anyone for anything. MS. HITCHELL: For those of you that know that I was a good friend of Gallagher's and then his campaign, the first time he won as treasurer, he didn't get one endorsement. For re-election he got them all, and he was very nervous. So, you know, that's the other area. You know, a big background comes out of media. and I don't like a lot o what I see. Everybody's -- It's easy to media bash. But there's got to come a point to where when you know what you're doing is right -- and you can't take them all on, but -- and if you're going to run your life over what the ABC newspaper has to say that day, you're not going to have good time doing what you're doing. It would drive me crazy. I do empathize with the dilemma, but how do you move the agenda forward? And, gee, whether you're with him or whether you're not, Gingrich made his point, and the media had bashed him about as badly as -- in the beginning as they possibly could, but he hung in there, and he kept communicating, and he kept talking, and finally they have to listen. I mean, whether you -- again, whether you agree with him or whether you don't, he's there, and he is something to reckon with, and that's on a lesser scale in terms of degree, where you want to get. I mean, if the media is really going to beat you up over doing something constructive, then, you know, the electronic is always available to you. But I was one of you, so -- I mean, I can say -- and I don't think -- again, I think all of it has gotten blown out of perspective. I don't thin the media is nearly as evil as sometimes we all think. And the same thing goes -- how often do you go to your editors and sit down and talk with them on issues? Not reporters. Editors. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Not often enough. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: We try to. COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We try to? COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: Well, actually it depends on the paper. MS. HITCHELL: Do you visit? COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: I visit one of the papers more frequently than I do the other, yes. MS. HITCHELL: Is there a reason for that? COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: Yes. MS. HITCHELL: Can you break the door down? Is it because they won't give you the appointment and no matter what you say, you feel like it doesn't matter anyway? COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: Well, it probably wouldn't matter anyway. MS. HITCHELL: Do you have a public information officer in Charlotte County? COHMISSIONER FARRELL: No. COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: You're looking at two of them most likely. COHMISSIONER FARRELL: I deal with both papers. MS. HITCHELL: You go to both papers? COHMISSIONER FARRELL: Yeah. MS. HITCHELL: Good. That really is important. COHMISSIONER FARRELL: I have identified my one problem. It's just one person, and, you know, so we're pretty much of an agreement that that one person and I just aren't going to hit it off and I need another reporter from that paper to talk to. MS. HITCHELL: How about your editors? Are they pretty open? COHMISSIONER FARRELL: And Commissioner Cummings is beginning to follow on this. I think they're very open. I've had very good success with them, and I've had very good cooperation, I believe, with both newspapers. And one of the things that you and I discussed on the plane that night was getting back to doing positive articles, and I have seen a big change. MS. MITCHELL: Well, and -- and take note. They are not there, honestly, to be our public relations deliverer. So they are a news tension. They're there to be tense. And sometimes we all expect more out of them in terms of positiveness than what is professionally right. The other side of that is that they could -- many could use just a little less cynicism, a little less, quote, everybody's bad and really kind of get to the bottom of an issue and not be an inch deep into my are which I'm sure your local papers don't intend to do that, but there are some that do. COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: No. For me, the other paper -- it's gradually getting better; but, you know, there had been animosity, and we're working towards neutrality, and who knows, maybe eventually it'll be repaired. MS. MITCHELL: I'm a C-Span junkie, and I see a lot of good meetings with elected and the media in a roundtable. Now, C-spa, it's national, so there's probably a little more sophistication; but,nonetheless, it's trickled down. And I'm seeing self-assessment out of the national media saying, you know, that was irresponsible reporting. I mean, who judges the judges? Who is the media accountable to, and what would be wrong with asking those questions of them? And so maybe another thought on a day that your plates aren't so full is to have several communications people, lobbyists, media, and do a charett with the county commission and your legislators. And I've seen that done, and it's been very -- I mean, we have the Directions 2000 concept, which I think is huge and breaks down -- and there's a lot of good that comes out of that. But if you mini it into a specific -- because the problem that you're having all over the country is dialogue and communication that could be honest and straight without feeling completely threatened and having your issue blown out of proportion to where it does more damage than it does good. So maybe a thought would be -- and as a matter of fact, a PR thought would be to maybe ask your legislative delegation next year, like in after-session, to take a day and ask if they can use their influence to get the speaker of the house, the president of the senate to come down and participate with you. Let them see that there's some interest in this community. You've got a real good base in these three counties in terms of community spirit, and have a good turnout for them and do a charett. COHMISSIONER CUHMINGS: That was -- kind of ties into what I was asking. I've heard you mention a couple of times about having like, for example, a Lee County day, something like that. Now, are you referring to having that in Tallahassee or having that down here? If you have it down here, the idea to draw in representatives and senators that are not -- that are outside you delegation as well? MS. MITCHELL: It's real hard to do, Commissioner, because of the restraints. You know, you could get your private sector real involved in giving money and having a fly-in, and the next thing, that would be a perception problem again. So to me the best use of your time in terms of getting legislators here would be a charett where you just pick one or two to come along with your local delegation to dialogue with you or to include the press and have a really kind of fun education day. The Lee County -- Maybe it has some merit to have four counties combined, Lee, Charlotte, Sarasota, and Collier, or however you divide that and have a Lee County, Charlotte County. Name your -- Is there a Treasure Coast? No, it's not Treasure Coast over here. It's -- whatever those four counties are termed holistically in Tallahassee. No, Palm Beach County was very successful. We had gotten a lot of -- it had gotten a lot of criticism from the media from time to time, but they rode it out, and today I don't think they're doing anything. But we had a really good response on the barbecue and the glades and the corn and bringing our county development. And we went through our LDC and our development board to get that money, and we put on a really fun thing outside the capitol, and it got to be a tradition where legislators really look forward to it. Any they all got a cowboy hat and they all got a case of corn. And if that's influence peddling, I'll take it. I think it's neat, and I'm real proud to be carrying the corn around to show that Palm Beach County has a lot of it. And that's worked real well in terms of the people that put that on is the private sector. They know all the legislators, and the county commission reap the benefit. Meet my friend, Commissioner Tammy (phonetic). COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Why is Dade County so successful with the state legislature? MS. MITCHELL: Yeah. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Why are they? MS. MITCHELL: I think -- Why are they? COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Yeah. MS. MITCHELL: There's lots of them. Dade County, Ray, has always been. And I've lived in Florida since '64 when we had the first republican governor whom I worked for. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Does their own county have some type of expense account? MS. MITCHELL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, you see -- COHMISSIONER JUDAH: There's more than just a '- MS. MITCHELL: -- There's good news, bad news. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: It's more than just a legislative lobbyist like we have? MS. MITCHELL: Yeah. And there's good news and bad news. There's some that take advantage of it in a negative way and get wonderful press, and I don't recommend that. And then there's the other side that's perfectly straight, perfectly legitimate, and they do one heck of a job down there marketing. And they do a heck of a job with their high technology, cutting edge, doing some very progressive things. All of us read about Jerry Guerstein (phonetic). There's a lot more to Dade County, and there's some underbelly stuff that, you know, none of us want to be associated with, but that's a very small part. And there's a lot going on in Dade County that's good stuff. But since I've lived in Florida, we have always referred to Dade as the State of Dade. I mean, Dade always had their own roles. They've always had a lot of influence, and they've always done things differently. They got tax districts before anybody else. And I think a lot of it is they've had -- Now they've got the numbers, but it was always Dade and panhandle but in old history times. Today, Dade does a very -- Nancy Hughes, who's their government relations person I'm sure Paul knows, does an incredibly effective good job. But they send her -- I mean, she -- They spend money. They pay her well. They sent her to Washington. She is on top of every issue at NACO. She spends -- They give her the same tools they would give the private sector. I mean, she doesn't go up and make a trip and go in to see the transportation ISTEA committee and say, gee, I'd like to have a grant, and then go home. They give her the substance, at least -- and I've known her a long time. She has some tools that she can really work with. I'm not familiar with your budget, and all of us have budget constraints. But your lady in the audience was telling me she went to Washington and brought home $400 million for a grant. HUD? Not bad. I don't know how much she paid her, but I bet it wasn't 400 million. So, you know, that -- And I know that's hard to articulate in terms of trying to explain it to the press. It's kind of like why do you go to conferences? It's a junket. Well, one out of 300 probably play golf the whole time. Okay. That's not bad abuse in terms of percentages. Most of you that -- when I go to the Florida Association of Counties, I honestly see you sitting in those meetings taking notes. You're not going to Orlando. It's not like it's going to Paris to play all day or -- so, you know, I think there's a judgment call, too, that's important if you're going to really get some things doe. And put some resources -- Paul may need some. Your lobbyist may need some extra help, extra people. I mean, there's only one of them, and that's a big capitol to cover up there. I know that in coming over here today, I kind of looked at what Lee County has been doing with airport grants compared t Palm Beach County. Now Palm Beach, for instance, we finally -- just two years ago, we had a little roundtable like this as a matter of fact, went to a bigger Washington lobbying team, and it has been incredibly effective. And, yes, they're paid a retainer, and then that retainer gets raised every year if the performance is good, and their performance has been outstanding, everything from low-income housing, to transportation, to airport, to big dollars coming back into the county. So it's been an investment that some of the commissioners had to fight for, and, yeah, they took a couple of hits in the paper. But it's funny, then, the paper hasn't come out and said county gets 30 times their bang for the buck. I'm waiting for that headline. the commission got to the point where they didn't care. You know, let's just go get it done. We've got, now, tri-rail up and going because the grants have been pretty good, if that gives you kind of a comfort level. It can be done. What kind of budget do you have here? What do you budget for lobbying and -- COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Pardon me? MS. MITCHELL: What do you budget for lobbying and public information as far as each county goes? COMMISSIONER JUDAH: The budget. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Paul Piller. Yeah, you know, there's a consortium here, as you know, Anita, with the municipality. The City of Fort Myers pulled out, but the Cape, Sanibel County paid Paul. MS. MITCHELL: So it's a collective -- COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Right. Right. MS. MITCHELL: Hopefully I just got you a raise, Paul, if you're in here. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Well, any other questions? Anita, it really has been very nice and gracious of you to be here today to share your thoughts with us. MS. MITCHELL: Well, I want to commend you all for doing what you're doing. I think that they give, you know, silver medals to those that go to war, but you guys are on it every single day. And for those of us that rep the benefit of living in a better community because you're there, I appreciate it. And keep doing good governance. Keep it civil, and be radical. Thanks. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Well, I can assure you, we thank you for having you as a friend. We we get a chance to visit with you in Tallahassee -- MS. MITCHELL: Absolutely. COHHISSIONER JUDAH: You certainly helped this commissioner. MS. MITCHELL: Office is open. The coffee pot is on. COHMISSIONER JUDAH: Anita, we appreciate it. Any final comment? Tim? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I just have one comment, if you don't mind, Commissioner Constantine. In a couple of weeks when I read over these notes -- when I read over the minutes, can I feel free to contact you -- MS. MITCHELL: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: -- if interesting ideas pop up? MS. MITCHELL: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Thank you. MS. MITCHELL: And again, please, all of you feel free. I don't lobby for, but I am a, hopefully, good citizen and want to give back anything that we can do. I have another couple of hidden weapons in Tallahassee by the way. And he always smiles when I do this, because he never knows. My son is a senior cabinet aide for Sandy Morthum (phonetic). Tuck that in the back of your mind. He's always getting people coming in, leaving cards. He calls me and says I don't know who this is. Is this your -- because he wasn't there, but I dropped him a note. He told me the other day. Actually, I think Ray and John Albion stopped in to see him. I don't know what he can do for you, except I'm very proud of him. So you can go take a look and see what I raised. He said he feels like he works in the crown room. People come in and say hi, I'm a friend of your mom's. Can I use your phone and leave my coat? A good young man, and advises the secretary on all policy issues, and really is sensitive to counties. His mother talks to him a lot about that. The other hidden weapon in Tallahassee is my daughter is a lobbyist, and her name is Kimberly, and I'll volunteer her, too, because they still have to answer to me. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Tim? MS. MITCHELL: That's Sapinski & Associates (phonetic). COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Before we go, just a different topic. We've been trying to make these gatherings at least every three months between three counties, and I wondered if next time we might focus on economic development and how the three counties might be able to do some things regionally. We had a very successful meeting about a week ago having to do with potential for a southwest Florida regional film commission where Lee and Collier and perhaps at some point Charlotte can participate together and share some of the cost burden, and better than that, share the benefits. So I think that's one small step -- MS. MITCHELL: Sure. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- toward the three counties doing some work, as far as economic development, and I'd like to make that the focus of our next get-together. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Consider that the priority on the next agenda. MS. MITCHELL: Where is Sarasota? Is Sarasota part of the -- Is it four counties or three? COMMISSIONER JUDAH: As far as the consortium that we got together in renting the room up in Tallahassee? MS. MITCHELL: Mm-hm. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Is that what you're referring to? It was just the three counties, and thanks to the efforts of Bettye Matthews who really pieced that together. So, you feel that that has made a difference, but do we just need to consolidate? Have maybe one representative from each county? MS. MITCHELL: You have a little too much fragmentation, and I think nobody knows you're there either, you know. Do you have a house up there? COMMISSIONER JUDAH: We had been renting an apartment for the session. MS. MITCHELL: Yeah, I think it's a matter of see and be seen and let people get to know you over and over again so that they -- and then the next time you go up, it's by name rather than a new commissioner -- you know. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Along those lines, I think one of the things we need to approve on at this time is communication week to week, regardless of whether it's three different individuals or five individuals or how many we have spent time during session from one week to the next. I don't think we did as well as we could knowing what had been done prior to that. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I've given some thought to that, too, and I thought that perhaps on Friday afternoon or Friday morning, just before the commissioner leaves Tallahassee, that they put their notes together and fax them to each commission office so that we have them over the weekend and the person going up the following week knows precisely where to pick up. And it's not so much that I'm so and so from Collier County, it's I'm so and so from Southwest Florida. MS. MITCHELL: And, also, I think that you can refresh them as to who was there before. I've heard legislators even on your issue -- partial assessment I should say, but I don't think that they all agree among themselves what they're hearing. They may be all saying the same thing, but sometimes it's picked up differently. So, if you can go back and say I know Commissioner Matthews was here last week, and this is what she went over. I want to reinforce that and put my area of expertise in it. At least they get some continuity to where it starts to take on a critical mass and they can get their hands around it. But this issue was a little fragmented. Nobody's particular fault. It's been fragmented for 10 years now trying to get it passed. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: We'll get the roundtables started pretty soon then. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: I think a lot of the communication from week to week will kind of come along with having a preset agenda ahead of time. If we all know why one another was up there to begin with, the notes of what the last one did might make a little more sense. MS. MITCHELL: True. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: And, you know, having that set agenda and understanding one another's positions will make the communication better. MS. MITCHELL: Talking sheets for the legislators. Real important. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Yeah. And that way, you know, the externalities, the little items that were handled -- and it's just for our county in the meantime -- you know, you would see that that wasn't part of anything of any relevance to you, but you'd be able to pick out and identify the things that you need to follow up on, because you know what the group agenda is and you know what everyone's position is and what their thoughts are. And I know that our commission is in some pretty hot topics at the moment, and we're having to be very careful to present a unified front. And so what we've done on a number of items is that we would decide that, okay, we each have our slightly different opinion of what's going on here, but this is what we agree on, so this is the part of the argument that we'll present so that you hear one voice. MS. MITCHELL: You might -- as a pragmatic tool -- and I should have mentioned it -- is a talking sheet with the pros and cons. Now you become a lobbyist. And, if you want credibility, you've got to give them the downside. Here's who -- and the answers to those with a talking sheet that you can hand them. Just think of how many issues come before you week after week and how hard it is to stay centered and grounded and focused on one issue when you've got so much coming at you. So, if you walk in there with that tool saying I know, Mr. Representative, you remember these for them, including -- it's like being an honest lobbyist. Give the downside. What political impact is it going to have? Is it going to cause some pain? Yes, it is. How do you suggest we cure the pain? Is there any cure? So that they know what they're getting into. And I think, also, when you tell them that, they're a lot more comfortable that you're out there doing some buffering for them and they're not just out there on the frontlines themselves. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Right. One of the items that I needed to get back with the Florida Association of Counties on was we had had some discussions about them offering us some training on how to be better lobbyists, and I suspect that -- like, I wouldn't have known that we need to learn how to make up this particular format of sheet that you were referring to. I mean, everyone knows you want to present it concisely, but I didn't know that there was a set format. So I need to-- MS. MITCHELL: We call it cheat sheet. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Well, I need to find out the kinds of questions that I need to ask them so they can teach me how to do it. And if you have any ideas on that, I sure would appreciate you sending them to me. MS. MITCHELL: Sure. And you can also call on your lobbyists, Paul. Utilize his knowledge. He's very knowledgeable and to give these kinds of fact sheets. Bullet. Think about what you would want if someone was educating you on an issue that you have to vote on. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Okay. MS. MITCHELL: And I'd be more than happy -- in fact, if you -- I'll give you my card, and I can send over some examples. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS: Okay. Thanks. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Anita, thank you so much. MS. MITCHELL: You're so welcome. You all have a good week. Glad the hurricane missed us all. (The meeting adjourned at 12 p.m.) BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER IT'S CONTROL ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK BETTYE J. MATTHEWS, CHAIRPERSON These minutes approved by the Board on as presented or as corrected TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING BY: Sharon A. Sullivan