BCC Minutes 06/06/1995 R REGULAR MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1995,
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in
and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning
Appeals and as the governing board (s) of such special districts as
have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. IN REGULAR SESSION in Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
CHAIRPERSON:
VICE-CHAIRMAN:
following members present:
ALSO PRESENT:
Bettye J. Hatthews
John C. Norris
Timothy J. Constantine
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
Timothy L. Hancock
W. Neil Dotrill, County Hanager
Kenneth B. Cuyler, County Attorney
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm going to call to order the
Board of County Commission meeting for Tuesday, June 6th, 1995.
Mr. Dotrill, would you lead us in the invocation and
pledge?
MR. DORRILL: Heavenly Father, we give thanks -- this
morning we give thanks in particular that now that we're in the rainy
season that we can begin to see the evidence of your goodwill for this
community.
Father, as always, we give thanks for the people of
Collier County and whether they're enjoying their retirement years or
starting a new business or raising a family, we give thanks for that.
Father, this morning, we give thanks for the conviction
of the County Commission and it's our prayer that you would lead and
direct their decisions here today so that this would be a reflection
of your will for our community. We thank you for the staff and the
citizens of Collier County and we ask that you would bless our time
here together this morning. And we pray these things in your son's
holy name. Amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Item #2A
AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Hr. Dorrill, we have a pretty
extensive change list.
MR. DORRILL: We -- we really do. It seems like -- like
we hadn't been here in awhile or something. It's only been two weeks
but we -- we do have a number of changes to the agenda this morning.
I'll -- I'll go through these as quickly as I can.
We have three add-on items. The first one was as a
result of a sort of a quick project that you assigned us, Item 8-H
(3), which was to update you and share with the board some examples of
public information brochures that had been done with previous sales or
tourist tax referendums and to advise you of a project that we're
working on with the city as it pertains to the Gordon River bridge.
That would be 8-H (3).
We have a -- an additional add-on item as it pertains to
the Naples Pier artificial reef and resolution of an insurance problem
that we had with the contractor. That will be 8-G (1).
There is one item under the County Commission's report.
It's 10-D, which is a discussion of the Lakeland Avenue extension
vacation, which is at the northern end of Willoughby Acres.
We have two items that had been withdrawn. The first
one is item 8-H (1). This is as a result of a bid protest that will
not actually -- the deadline for an evaluation does not occur until
later this week which was a recommendation to award Bid 95-2360 as it
pertained to landscape median improvements for Airport Road.
The other item is on the consent agenda at 16-H (4) as
it pertains to the Wiggins Pass Inlet Management Plan. That was
withdrawn at the request of the staff to be rescheduled.
And then the balance of items are all continuances. The
first is Item 7-A which was under public petitions. It was a request
from the Marco Island chapter of the historic society concerning an
artifact loan request from the Smithsonian Institution, continued for
two weeks until the meeting of the 20th.
Also continued for two weeks is Item 8-B (1) under
transportation which was a recommendation to accept the four-laning
project for Immokalee Road and to make final payment.
The last item -- the next to last item was continued for
just one week until your meeting of the 13th, Item 8-H (2), which was
a request to consider additional information under tourist tax use
concerning a joint film commission office, which was one of the things
you discussed at your meeting last Thursday in Fort Myers. And we
have arranged initially to have Ms. Fox, who is the Lee County film
commission liaison, to be here next week in conjunction with that
request for continuance.
The final item is to continue Item 13-A (1) under public
hearings as it pertains to Petition PR-95-1 which was a joint-use
parking agreement resolution at the Golden Gate Inn.
I have a couple of communication items that I will bring
up at the end of the day. Those are reminders for me.
I did want to take this opportunity for and on behalf of
the county commissioners to introduce to you for those of you who may
not have met previously Vince Cautero, the county's new community
development administrator, and also to introduce him to the folks in
the audience and those watching in TV-land. He -- he had a smile on
his face yesterday, but now that he's been in town 24 hours -- I just
want to on behalf of the board, Vince, welcome you and your family to
Collier County and we expect you will do us a good job at -- welcome
officially.
MR. CAUTERO: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Indeed, welcome.
MR. CAUTERO: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Welcome.
I do note that Jennifer has an even broader smile.
MR. DORRILL: Yes, she does.
And that's all that I have, Ms. Matthews.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
Mr. Cuyler, do you have a change?
MR. CUYLER: Just one correction on 9-A on the last line
of that item where it says requiring disclosure or ex parte
communications, that is not intended to give you a choice. That is
supposed to be a disclosure of ex parte communications.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Where are you? I'm sorry?
MR. CUYLER: The last line of 9-A where the word or
should be of.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Not or, huh?
MR. CUYLER: No.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris, do you have
any adjustments or changes?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No further changes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: None except that those that may
be here for it or that -- that may be watching, the item regarding the
Wiggins Pass Inlet Management Plan has been -- CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Withdrawn.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- withdrawn, so no need to hurry
down.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
Commissioner Mac'Kie.
No. Thank you.
Commissioner Constantine.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No changes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. And I have none either.
The only one I had was Wiggins Pass and now that's been --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Madam Chairman, Motion to
Approve the agenda and consent agenda as amended.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: There is a motion and a second to
approve the agenda and the consent agenda as amended.
All those in favor please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
Item #3
MINUTES OF HAY 9, 1995 REGULAR MEETING, HAY 10, 1995 TRI-COUNTY JOINT
MEETING AND HAY 16, 1995 REGULAR MEETING - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Ms. Chairman, I'll make a motion
that we approve the minutes of the HAy 9th regular meeting, HAy 10th
tri-county joint meeting, and HAy 16th regular meeting.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the minutes of three separate meetings.
All those in favor please say aye.
Fine. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
Item #4A1
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING STUDENTS, TEACHERS, AND SCHOOLS FOR "HOST
ESTEEMED RECYCLING STANDOUTS" - ADOPTED
Proclamations and service awards. It's my pleasure to
have a proclamation regarding recycling.
Is Joan Mayer here?
MS. MAYER: Here.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Good. And I understand you have
some comments to make and will make them after we -- MS. MAYER: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- after we read and accept the
proclamation.
MS. MAYER: Could I ask one-third of the audience to
stand up and get in front here -- CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: These are the people involved in
this program?
MS. MAYER: -- if that's okay?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Stand up and come forward as I
read this. Everybody's active in it. Come on up here. This is
marvelous.
The proclamation.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I hope all the VCRs at home are
running.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Whereas, the students of the
Collier County Public and Private School Systems have shown monumental
willingness and fervor with relentless energy, sometimes against many
obstacles to initiate school recycling programs; and,
Whereas students of all ages have logged hundreds of
hours usually after the regular school day to collect, count,
separate, lug, weigh, drag and transport in student or teacher
vehicles thousands of pounds of paper, cardboard, newspaper, aluminum
cans to various transportations and other recycling centers; and,
Whereas these meritorious and unselfish labor-intensive
deeds symbolize the extra effort students will go to in pursuant of
the promotion of progressive solid waste management practices at their
schools; and,
Whereas recycling continues to be a valuable tool to
teach community involvement, responsibility, hard work, goal setting,
environmental awareness and appreciation for our dwindling natural
resources; and,
Whereas these achievements prepare students, our most
precious resource, for the unending demands of a more complex and ever
evolving world.
Now therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, to recognize these students,
teachers, and schools for outstanding contributions in recycling and
name them most esteemed recycling standouts for the 1994-95 school
year. Done and ordered this 6th day of June, 1995, Board of County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, Bettye J. Matthews, Chairman.
Colleagues, I would like to offer this proclamation and
make a motion thus.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the proclamation.
All those in favor please say aye.
Motion passes 5 to 0.
MS. MAYER: I just wanted to say we have about eight
schools represented here today. They are all absolute standouts but
two, one in particular, I have a lot of respect for.
Deborah Theall from Oak Ridge Middle School has done a
remarkable job at Oak Ridge Middle with her handicapped class and they
have done thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds of recycling
materials.
Cathy Lane, who is an extremely smart ally to have in
this program, is the purchasing buyer for the school system. And with
her commitment to recycling, which is so strong, I think our school
program will and hopefully should and can, will move forward. And
she's committed to getting recycling into every school. And I'm very,
very proud to be part of this school system network and partnership.
Thank you all for coming because I know the high school
students are probably getting out of some exams. Thank you very much
for coming.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
Judy, I have the proclamations here. I'm sure there's
not enough for each of these people but if you will take care of the
distribution and let me know if you need more, and we'll certainly
make some more. Thank you.
MS. MAYER: Thanks.
Item #4B
SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The next item on the agenda are
service awards. Commissioner Hancock.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you, MAdam Chairman. It's
my pleasure this morning to present a total of six service awards.
The first is a 15-year service award to Lazier Blanco, Stormwater
MAnagement.
Lazier, are you here? One step shy of your medal of
valor.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: 15 years. Congratulations.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Congratulations.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Our next service award this
morning is a ten-year service award to Leroy Payne of Road and Bridge.
Mr. Payne?
Congratulations.
MR. PAYNE: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just fine, Mr. Payne.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Congratulations.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
MR. PAYNE: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you now.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let's have a --
MR. DORRILL: Well done.
MR. PAYNE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have a ten-year service award
for Steve Camell of purchasing. Steve. I assume you got the best
price possible on these pins, Steve.
MR. CARNELL: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Congratulations.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you, Steve.
MR. DORRILL: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Next we have a five-year service
award, and I know I'm going to get part of this wrong, for Bismar
Naranjo, parks and recreation. Am I even close, Mr. Naranjo? Thank
you very much.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Congratulations.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thanks.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Congratulations.
MR. DORRILL: Well done.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Next we have also a five-year
service award for Daniel Rodriguez from parks and recreation. Mr.
Rodriguez.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Congratulations, Daniel.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Congratulations.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: I like that new uniform. I might add he's
modeling your new park ranger uniform.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hey, there.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I like it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Send your votes to 555.
And last, certainly not least, someone has to put up
with Mr. Conrecode. Five years for Mary Bragg in OCPM.
MS. BRAGG: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thanks.
MS. BRAGG: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Commissioner Hancock.
For those of you who may believe that we're going to be
in for a long morning, we are scheduled for a lunch meeting with the
Hispanic Advisory Board, though we will be breaking as close to noon
as we can in order to accommodate the prearranged meeting, and we'll
probably reconvene at 1:15. So with that, we'll move on with the
agenda.
Item #5A
BUDGET AMENDMENTS 95-310 AND 95-311 - ADOPTED
Approval of budget admendments. Mr. Smykowski.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Michael Smykowski, acting budget director.
There are two budget amendments on the report this
morning simply placing funds into project numbers.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the budget amendments. All those in favor please say aye.
Opposed?
Motion passes 5 to 0. Thank you.
Item #7B
J. DUDLEY GOODLETTE, RE SUBMETERING - ARBOUR WALK APARTMENT COMPLEX -
STAFF TO PREPARE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT AND PRESENT SAME IN JULY, 1995
The next item on the agenda is under public petitions,
Item 7-B. Mr. Goodlette regarding Arbour Walk.
MR. CUYLER: Mr. Goodlette --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Goodlette.
MR. CUYLER: -- you're on.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Goodlette, I'm sure that
you're aware that we've limited our public petitions to a ten-minute
presentation. We take no -- no final action on a public petition but
refer it to staff if we desire.
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Madam Chairman. We're aware
of that, and I don't think we'll take the ten minutes.
My name is Dudley Goodlette with the law firm of
Cummings and Lockwood. We represent Chronacher Development
Corporation.
You have -- you have your agenda packet and materials I
think that frames this issue quite well. I sent a letter to Mr.
Dotrill on Friday and asked that he distribute a little further
background information which was our letter to the county attorney
that -- that prompted this whole discussion. And, of course, what the
discussion relates to is the subject of submetering for the -- for
water in the county.
You have, and as the background agenda materials
indicates to you, the analysis that's been undertaken by Mr. Pettit
and the county attorney's office is that there -- based upon the
ordinances that's currently constructed, there is a prohibition that
would prevent Arbour Walk, the Chronacher Development project which
contains 404 apartment units from fairly and equitably distributing
the cost of water to the -- to the users of that water. And I think
that the issues are framed in the correspondence in front of you.
This is somewhat -- a little bit different than most
public petitions, Madam Chairman and the members of the commission,
inasmuch as we have discussed this at some length with members of your
staff, of the county attorney's staff, as well as the utilities
department. I think that they are prepared to tell you that -- that
moving into a regulated rather than a prohibited arena is acceptable
to them.
There are other counties in the state that -- that do
this, that permit submetering on apartment complexes. The state law
clearly permits it. And most importantly, the Water Management
District encourages the conservation of water. And that's what we
believe this -- this undertaking will result in because there are --
and that is the correspondence, and I will not take the commission's
time to reiterate what we've already provided to you in writing. But
suffice is to say that -- that our primary objective here is to
distribute the cost equitably among the users, the tenants. And we
think in doing so that it will foster the conservation of the
important -- the precious natural resource which is the water.
But those are the issues, Madam Chairman. I know you
can't make a decision, the commission cannot, but we are hopeful that
you will direct your staff to -- to accommodate our reasonable request
and come back by the end of July or certainly no later than the first
meeting in August with a -- with an -- an ordinance that will
accomplish the desired objective.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let me -- let me make sure that I
understand what you're asking for. Currently the metered water is
paid for under a master meter?
MR. GOODLETTE: That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And the management company or the
owner of the development pays for that water and includes the price of
that water in their rent?
MR. GOODLETTE: To the -- to the extent that they can,
but there's no -- they do not have the ability to encourage people to
conserve water, because, you know, as the in -- correspondence
indicates, utilities are separately -- for example, electricity is
paid for by each unit owner. We -- there are instances where people
have, you know, filled the -- filled their bathtub with -- with cold
water in order to cool the place down and save on electricity which
doesn't make a lot of sense frankly. But that does happen when
there's no governor and no -- no -- no -- no ability to control the
use of water. And the way that you control it is obviously in -- in
-- and what we're asking for is a separate metering process so that
people pay what they -- you know, what -- what they use, they pay for.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: One more question on that. Then
it's management's position then that -- that if we discuss this and
take action on it later this summer, that they would decrease the
rents by whatever the water allowance is, and then bill each customer
for it, or are they going to bill overages or what? What -- what's
the mechanism?
MR. GOODLETTE: There are two different concerns: One
is the legal concern and that's what we have addressed in the
correspondence and what Mr. Pettit has responded to.
There are in addition to those legal issues some
practical concerns that Mr. Newman in the utilities -- people in the
utilities department have. It's those practical issues that we think
we can address in a simple amendment to our ordinance that -- that
will address some of the concerns that -- that you have articulated.
We -- we do not currently capture those in the rent.
Mr. Chronacher is here as is the third party, the
metering company, who is -- who has done this in Hillsborough County
and in other jurisdictions. They're both here this morning available
to answer questions if you have them, Madam Chairman, but in -- in
recognizing the ten-minute time limit, I knew that I wouldn't have
time to anticipate all of your -- your questions, but we'll be happy
to have them answer them for you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: As I read through this, Mr.
Goodlette, do I understand that the county will incur no additional
expense in the reading of the extra meters? That will be done
privately by the apartment complex? The county will just continue
to
read the master meter and, of course, your accumulation of totals has
to meet the master; is that correct?
MR. GOODLETTE: That is correct.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: There will be no additional
county personnel necessary or increasing in reading meters by adopting
this type of ordinance?
MR. GOODLETTE: And no additional costs associated with
-- I mean this is simply cost of providing water, the resource water.
There are no additional expenses associated with any of the -- of
the -- passed on to the tenant for the -- a meter reading. And
there's no additional burden on the county. You will still read one
meter monthly --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
MR. GOODLETTE: -- the master meter.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Madam Chairman, I think it
warrants further explanation. I'd like to make the motion that we go
ahead and put this on agenda for whatever the appropriate time frame
is, Mr. Cuyler, late July or early August.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'll second that.
MR. CUYLER: And it would be in the form of a proposed
ordinance amendment that would come to you, and there would be a full
discussion at the public hearing, and you could either act or not as
you saw fit.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: So we have to go through the
advertising process?
MR. CUYLER: Correct. It will be advertised.
MR. GOODLETTE: And timing, Madam Chairman, is important
so if we could -- could ask that it be heard at the earliest date
possible, we would appreciate that and that's really the reason why
we're here this morning.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. I'm -- I'm intrigued by
it. I'm not sure how it's going to work though. I'm going to want to
hear more.
MR. CUYLER: With the understanding that Mr. Dorrill
needs to determine what the earliest date possible is because you're
going to have a couple full meetings when you come back from your
vacation.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's quite true. We will.
Mr. Dotrill, you will put this on the earliest possible
agenda pending whatever advertising runs to?
MR. DORRILL: Certainly. I didn't know whether the
utilities division had any just preliminary information they wanted to
provide to the board. We'll try and do this early in July.
MR. HCNEES: I would just make one brief comment. Hike
HcNees from the utilities division.
Philosophically, we're as much in favor of the
conservation and -- and the equal allocation as anyone. Our one
caveat would be Mr. Goodlette mentioned the regulatory issue. We
would hesitate to put the utilities division or the county in any role
as the protector between the tenant and the landlord. And we're going
to work real hard to make sure that we don't create some sort of an
ordinance where we have meter, meter, submetering police or whatever
that mechanism might be so we -- we're going to look for something
that's administratively simple as much as possible. I assume that's
probably what they're after as well, so with that, we're -- we're
happy to go ahead and look at this thing and see if there's a way it
could work.
MR. GOODLETTE: Indeed -- may I just comment? Indeed
that is -- that is correct. The regulatory side of this in other
counties that have ordinances that do regulate this is merely in terms
of providing annual information to you to ensure that -- that the
rates are fair and equitable and uniform.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a question for Hike. Is
this -- is this something that we have might have heard proposed by
utilities or is it -- I mean are -- is this something that you think
is a good idea or you're willing to consider? Are you a proponent or
just a -- willing to listen?
MR. HCNEES: Personally, I think it's a fine idea with
one exception to what he just said, which would be I'm not even sure
the county wants to be in a role every year to analyze their rates.
So I believe it's illegal today for them to take our water and sell it
for more than they pay for it or more than we charge. And if a tenant
feels like they're being charged more than we charge, they can come
forward and there's -- there's already a legal mechanism out there.
So I'm -- I'm -- my only concern with it is that we create some sort
of a regulatory nightmare where I can hear the little old lady calling
me now and saying, I didn't use 4,000 gallons of water this month. My
landlord says I did, and I want you to get in the middle of it. I
don't think the county wants to be in that role. So I -- that's --
those are the things we have to work out and I'm sure we can.
MR. GOODLETTE: And we don't expect you to have to. And
we -- we don't believe -- we believe that there's a simple mechanism
to accomplish the desired objective that the utilities department has
acknowledged in conserving the precious resource of water is a -- is a
worthy objective of -- of your time and -- and this ordinance's
amendment.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Goodlette, can I assume that
Mr. HcNees or one of his representatives will be involved in each step
of this process before it comes back to the board so that we don't
have a situation of immediate review and report from him?
MR. GOODLETTE: Absolutely. We met with Mr. Newman by
phone yesterday and Mr. Pettit. And I think we're all on the same
page here, Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. GOODLETTE: -- Hancock.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's call the question. All
those in favor of having this on the earliest possible agenda pending
advertising please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes --
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- 5 to 0. Thank you. We'll see
you in six weeks or so.
Item #7C
LEE TOBIAS, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY HUMANE SOCIETY
RE THE CONTRACT FOR SERVICES - TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDA
The next item on the agenda is Item 7-C, Mr. Lee Tobias,
chairman of the --
MS. MAC'KIE: It's Ms.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm sorry. Ms. Lee Tobias,
chairman of the board of county -- of Collier County Humane Society.
Mr. Olliff.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, ma'am. I just -- I wanted to
introduce Miss Tobias. She is the chairman of the Board of the Humane
Society and she's here pretty much at my request.
When we were beginning to negotiate the contract, the
board directed us to -- the Humane Society had wanted to continue to
try and develop something that was a mutually agreeable type of a
solution with all of the parties involved. And because you hadn't
directed your staff to be able to do anything like that, you had
basically put out a bid, had a low bidder and directed us to go
negotiate that contract. We don't have any direction to do that, so I
requested them as the Humane Society to come and bring to you their
proposal, let you hear it, and then should you decide to pursue that
and then give us that direction to go negotiate the contracts.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A question -- Tom, I have a
question just -- that's just coming up. As I am reading this, my --
my whole -- you just touched on a problem that I have, and that is
what was it exactly that the board did that prohibited this from
happening the first time around, because that's what -- what troubles
me about this is if this can be worked out, why wasn't it worked out
before?
MR. OLLIFF: It was a bid, a formal bid, and so there
were two different groups who actually -- well, there are actually
four total bidders that submitted bids to our bid specifications. The
Humane Society was one. The Veterinarian Society as a society was
another bid. So there were two separate entities there. One was a
lower bid than the other. And the board directed to award that bid to
the lowest responsive bidder and directed us to negotiate a contract
with that one particular bidder.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So another way to approach this
would have been to reject all the bids at the time and then hope that
something else worked out? I just think this is such a mixed up
process the way wewve gone through this that I wish there were a
better way to do it and try and figure that out.
MR. OLLIFF: I think everybody wishes we had been able
to come to some mutually better agreement before we -- we were here at
the last time we were trying to bid the document. And I think it
caused some ill feelings amongst all those parties, and I think what
theywre proposing probably is a good thing. But now Iwll let her make
that presentation to you and let you decide that. Miss Tobias.
MS. TOBIAS: Thank you. Good morning, commissioners.
Lee Tobias, president of the Humane Society. I think that Mr. Olliff
summed it up. Perhaps there should have been more done in the
beginning.
We -- we basically came today to say that we can go two
ways with this. We can do the original proposal of fulfilling our
obligation to the contract, or we can help prevent some of the
repercussions that are out there in the community, some of the
problems that the veterinarians were having with us doing the contract
solely.
And as of a letter of yesterday, which I believe was
distributed to you this morning, we are ready, willing, and able to
work with the Veterinarian Association and animal control in divvying
this work up among the three agencies. And I think that itws
important that -- to realize that we are all working for the same
goal. And I donwt -- or when I say I, I mean the Humane Society feels
itws important not to lose sight of the long-term goal over short-term
problems. And I think that thatws what wewre addressing today.
We have in the letter here basically an outline which
would be massaged over more, you know, the local work done. But it
gives you an idea of how we can go about doing the contract together
which would mean people would have the choice of going to the
veterinarian that they would want to go to. They could take the
animal to Animal Control, and then there would be some controls
prolonging it as to the time period of when the animal has to be
spayed or neutered. The instruction fee is there in the letter.
These are all things that we would have to further work out.
But I -- I think itws important at this point to realize
that we need to work with Animal Control. Wewre enjoying a good
relationship with them, I believe, a good relationship so far with the
Veterinarian Association and would like to keep it that way and
prevent further repercussions to the -- of course, the animals and the
people of Collier County.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Commissioner Hancock.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Miss Tobias, I may not agree with
the manner in which the Veterinarian Society took exception of the
board action, but do I understand your proposal to be that if I go to
Animal Control to adopt an animal, I have a choice of either having it
spayed or neutered at the Humane Society, which I donwt have to get
the slip and go to a veterinarian? Itws just done at the Humane
Society, or I can choose to get the -- the slip that I can take to a
veterinarian of my choice and have it done there? Is that the crux of
whatws being proposed?
MS. TOBIAS: That would be -- that would be if a person
-- someone may come into Animal Control that lives in the very far
north end of Naples and say, well, I donwt know anyone at the Humane
Society. I donwt want to go all the way down there. I live next door
to this vet. Could I go there?
Yes, you could go there, but we have to make sure that
there's controls put on to say that the animal is released with a
certain amount of time and we know that that animal is being spayed or
neutered. There would be a control put on that to make absolutely
sure that once that animal is released, it's going to that vet and
that that is set up ahead of time.
These are the details that need to be, I think, further
worked out. But it would give people a choice and therefore
satisfying.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Would that plan if -- as you see
it cause an increase in the cost per animal that the Humane Society
had originally proposed?
MS. TOBIAS: There is -- in my letter here there would
be an additional $15 fee for -- if you do it this way. But when you
look at the whole picture, we feel that the amount of revenue that has
been lost, say, through a lack of tag sales, et cetera, can be made up
in that extra amount of money. We don't think it's going to be that
much more in the long run in the goodwill in the community. And, you
know, the -- the services that the vets have provided especially with
emergency services, et cetera, I think that it's pretty hard to put a
dollar and cents sign on that.
But in the long run I think that it will work out. It
will average itself out. I don't see problems with that at all.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
MS. TOBIAS: I really don't.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Is there a direction
from the board? I don't see any problem with directing our staff to
bring this item back to us on a regular agenda item. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I think that's fine.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think that's what we'll do, and
we'll look to see you again then, Hiss Tobias, in -- MS. TOBIAS: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- July sometime.
MS. TOBIAS: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Dorrill, you can take care of
putting that on some future agenda. Thank you very much.
We are moving on the agenda to Item 8-C (1) which is the
Lake Avalon property, proposed purchase as a regional park. Mr.
Gutsoy had asked for some time to set up a slide projector and so
forth, and I granted that to him, so we'll take a five-minute break
while that is done. Thank you.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Dotrill, is 8-A (1) still an
active part of the agenda?
MR. DORRILL: I believe it was.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm sorry. I have it scratched
out.
MR. CUYLER: You may want to just take it when you come
back. It will be five minutes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think so. We've already gotten
started.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thanks.
(A recess was had.)
Item #8C1
CONSIDERATION OF THE PURCHASE OF THE LAKE AVALON PROPERTY FOR USE AS A
REGIONAL PARK - STAFF TO PROCEED WITH PURCHASE OF PROPERTY PURSUANT TO
OPTION #1, CONTINGENT UPON MR. SUGDEN'S CONTRIBUTION; COHMERCIAL PAPER
PROGRAM TO BE UTILIZED; AND SUBJECT TO OTHER CONDITIONS
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Reconvene the board of county
commission meeting for Tuesday, June 6th, 1995. We are at Item 8-C
(1) which is a discussion of the Lake Avalon property. We
inadvertently have skipped over 8-A (1). We will return to that when
we complete this agenda item. Mr. Olliff.
MR. OLLIFF: Good morning. For the record, Tom Olliff,
your public services administrator.
Because they've got the equipment set up and the lights
are already dimmed, I would just like to introduce Michael Redd, who
is from Team Planning, Incorporated, and I think they've got a brief
presentation to show you about the site plans and -- and some of the
-- the aerials and a view of Lake Avalon as you may not have seen it.
And with that I'll turn that over to Mr. Redd.
MR. REDD: Thank you very much. Is this okay, the
microphone here?
My name is Michael Redd, and I'm with Team Planning. We
have been working on the master plans and detailed plans for the
entire regional park. And we've worked with your park people as well
as some local input from Mr. Kent Carlyle.
I'd like to thank everyone for all the tremendous
outpouring of help that we've had. I don't know in my professional
career when I've seen something that the community is so solidly
behind.
We're going to -- let me get my focus man over here.
We're having trouble.
We're going to just show you an overall, and then we're
going to show you some details and some sketches, so don't fear the
slide projector.
The park is broken up into four distinct areas, although
there is no real line of demarcation between them. All right. It's
broken up into the active park which is this area right in here;
secondarily, the passive park, which is very environmentally sensitive
and ecologically oriented, native habitat area right in this area;
and, of course, the Gulf Coast Skimmers' water park which will be
right here just to give you a little closer look at a detailed plan of
the park.
One of the interesting features that we were able to
accomplish is by coming in this way, we're able to have all of the
circulation and traffic -- you don't have -- on the outside so that
the entire park is very pedistrian friendly. There's no interface
between automobiles. There's no conflict points between automobiles
and pedestrians.
In this area we have a large open pavilion which will
house up to 100 people. It's a picnic pavilion and then a series of
24-person pavilions, small, 4 picnic tables per pavilion and several
single picnic shelters. This is the public area, play fields,
overflow parking, the parking lot and dropoff to serve the Skimmers'
park, and, of course, the entrance as we come in here.
The next area is, of course, the passive park area.
That will be open at all times, and you'll see access will come in
pedestrian-wise in this area, fishing pier, canoe launch, passive
park. Last, of course, is the native habitat park area with trails.
The canoers -- canoeists like to go inside that area and canoe. There
are several lakes in this area.
And, of course, the fourth element of the overall
regional park is the water Skimmers, the park for the water -- the
Skimmer headquarters.
One of the things that I would like to show you is a --
a detail on a closer look at this, this area of the park where you'll
have the most activity. Looking close, you'll see that in this area
we have the community, the park, the actual park facilities building.
In this building right here, which is located on the
main parking lot, we'll have restrooms, the office for the park
employees. We'll have maintenance areas, maintenance facilities,
storage equipment, storage for the people actually maintaining the
park.
As we get closer -- okay. If we could just take it
down, it would be fine.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Just take it down.
MR. REDD: In the actual Skimmer park area, we have the
main dropoff which would be right here where handicapped or elderly
could be dropped off or if you're picking up or dropping off equipment
and so forth, and this will also serve the people, the parents,
dropping off their children for the day to utilize the park facilities
and so forth.
We expect this gate to have sort of a thematic entrance
look to it as we get further into the design.
We've also got the main boat house which will be for use
by the Skimmers. In that we will have restrooms and equipment
storage, concessions, meeting rooms. The boat storage will be
underneath, and we'll have set-up and show preparation.
The entire area will be fenced approximately like this
which makes it real easy to just still have the park totally
accessible, the balance of the park totally accessible to the public,
can operate with or without an event going on. It works quite well.
We've got trailer storage parking to the right side of
the area, two docks, and this will be the main show and presentation
area. The -- there's a 15-foot sand beach here. Center stage will be
right here with the Astroturf where they take off and begin their --
their initial show. This will be a flourish and finish sand beach in
that the skiers will either begin or start the beginning -- or give an
act there.
The seating is 750 with overflow on both ends as well as
the beach area. And we're planning to put a large number of shade
trees. If you notice what we're doing, we've flipped this around, and
everybody's looking south so in the morning, in the evening, in the
winter and the summer you're not going to be looking right into the --
into the sun like we have a difficult situation now so the
orientation, the reason we slid around the side of the lake, is to
make it look to the south.
The bleachers, as I mentioned, holds 750 spectators or 8
bleachers, free-standing bleachers, each holding 150 I believe it is.
The sketch of the project would look like this. This is
from the southwest a little bit looking back toward the beach area.
You can see the boat house to the right, the main walkway, fencing
this would be the limits of the Skimmers' park on this side, and the
limits on this side would be about right here.
The close-up of the boat house, you can see how it would
work. Hidden pretty much from the public view is -- this is where the
Skimmers' boats would be launched, and it could be kept on site and
under cover and you just float them right up underneath.
This would be where the speaker's stand would be, the
announcer, to call the shows and general area to make announcements
and so forth. And this would also be used as a staging area.
Again, just a little bit of a close-up look at what the
-- one of the famous pyramids formed and the wonderful young people
going by in a boat. You can see that that would encourage, we think,
a lot of family use, a lot of -- it would also encourage a lot of
other park use instead of when the show is over we think we can get a
lot of good public use out of the park from this design. And on the
left-hand side another staging area for the equipment so they can
begin to set up shows and so forth.
Now, let's look to the right of this facility a little
bit. Now, you're looking back at the big parking lot if you remember
the northeast corner of the park. The Skimmers' facilities are pretty
much from this line in that direction so that over here you're going
to see the large pavilion. This is a 100-person pavilion for
families, family reunions, groups, guests, and so forth.
You can see the park facility structure right here
located right on the parking lot and then the individual 24-person
picnic shelters again right on the water and some singles also. We're
proposing that this be a passive area for canoes or nonpowered boats
to be put in by hand and a fishing dock out at the end.
Thank you very, very much for your time. I hope that
was brief enough.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Redd.
Mr. Olliff.
Miss MAc'Kie, did you need to make a statement?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes. Just I guess everybody
knows by now, like last time, I can't vote on this, because I have a
conflict. I represent Signature Communities who would be the seller
to the county.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you.
Commissioner Constantine, you had some questions.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Olliff, the primary
source or the source of funds from the county for this would be
regional park impact fees?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What other projects do we
have planned to be paid for with regional park impact fees?
MR. OLLIFF: As you know, primarily what we have used
those funds for is to work for the end in the upcoming budget more,
more for beach and boat ramp-type parks as well as the parks and
advisory board on your staff has been working on that concept where we
talked preliminarily of adding in program budgets about a
district-type park which is a permanent-type facility with several
soccer fields and several softball fields with one location of 60
plus-type acres.
Next year the budget specifically includes some money
set aside to begin to save for the land purchase for that type park.
It includes money for a Caxambas dock master's building at the
Caxambas boat ramp. And based on the board's previous direction, we
had put $500,000 in that capital budget for this particular park.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: How much do we collect
annually in regional park impact fees?
MR. OLLIFF: Our current budget this year is $575,000.
We anticipate probably 600,000 next year.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My concern originally was
that we put so much money aside for regional park impact fees that we
put other projects on hold or eliminate them all together. Is there a
way that can be avoided?
MR. OLLIFF: Absolutely. I think not only in the
executive summary we showed some financing options that -- that used
between 70 and as little as 30 percent of the total revenue stream but
also I think I provided you subsequent to that based on the county's
previous contribution of $500,000 cash. If it were to continue with
that and finance the balance, the amount of revenue tied up for debt
service could be significantly smaller than that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The one item that I didn't
see included in executive summary is the cost of improvements. We saw
a great number of things here on the presentation. None of those are
included in the money we have in our executive summary. How much will
it cost to improve to that level?
MR. OLLIFF: It -- that level hasn't been flushed out.
It depends on the particular parcel that the county buys. If the
county buys the entire parcel, then there is enough land available to
do some types of active uses on that particular site.
The passive park that we had always presented to you,
the building and costs for that were estimated to be between four
hundred and five hundred thousand dollars. That's what we would
anticipate doing in the short term, and we don't anticipate doing any
of those active uses for a number of years out primarily because we're
looking at a south county community park in that same neighborhood.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Would those improvements be
paid for out of regional park impact fees as well? MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do you have numbers, or can
you help me a little bit with numbers because you said depending on
the time frame, what's included here in the executive summary spans
from 30 percent to 70 percent of the regional park impact fees but it
does not include improvements. If we do include the improvements
there as well, how much -- how big of a bite are we taking?
MR. OLLIFF: The easiest way to do that is probably to
assume that the county would continue with its $500,000 cash payment
and then the numbers in the executive summary are good with
improvements because then you've -- you've basically just supplanted
that 500,000 cash payment for the improvements so that that financing
works just as it's shown in the executive summary.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a thought to kind of
kick us off on discussion with this, I guess. I -- get tagged with
names. I like the moniker to tell you the truth, but I'm referred to
as Mr. Fiscal Conservative, and I'm very tight with a buck here and so
on. I hate to spend anything.
But over the last few days I've been going back and
forth on this issue asking the very simple question what is it we
collect regional park impact fees for, and that is for regional use,
for a regional park. And I want to be careful that we don't penalize
any projects that are already on the books, and Mr. Olliff is saying
we don't necessarily have to do that. But I think if we put this
money towards its intended use, a regional park, and you combine that
with a private donation of one-half million dollars -- correct me if
I'm wrong -- we've never had that sort of thing happen before. We
welcome that happening over and over but --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We'd encourage that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- I don't think we've had a
half a million dollar donation with any frequency. MR. OLLIFF: Not in my tenure here.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So I need a little help from
the rest of the board to try to determine which of these are the most
effective way. And, Mr. Olliff, again, I've said it three times;
however, my concern, whatever way we do it, I don't want to penalize
the projects that are currently on the books to be done, but I'm very
comfortable putting regional park impact fees toward a regional park,
and I'm hard pressed to think of a better site or of a site that's
going to have more public support than Lake Avalon. So for my -- my
question anyway is simply what is the most effective way to pay for
that, not whether or not to pay for it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's been my question now for
several months, how are we going to pay for it. Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I -- I think what I hope the
audience is seeing up here is four -- and I would assume five if that
were able to be voiced -- four people that want to find a way to make
this a reality.
Two points: One is Commissioner Constantine, you make a
very strong point about not jeopardizing what we already have on the
books and what we already have planned.
Commissioner Matthews, I believe I've heard through
radio programs and so forth, is trying to look for a short-term way to
get it done, get it paid for, and we can move on.
I think there's a way we can possibly accomplish both.
If we were to look at whether we go with option one or two -- and
that's something that we will have to discuss -- we'll go with either
option. If we do it as a ten-year option, which shows that we can
proceed and not jeopardize other projects, we then have the
flexibility each year to increase the payment above what that ten-year
minimum is.
So should we find other projects fail or -- or are not
recommended or more monies are available, we can then pay that down on
a quicker time frame. And if we list that as our intent and
direction, we may be able to accomplish both things. So I'd like to
put that on the table's consideration that it's not a definite
either/or.
If we extend the time frame so that we can accomplish
all the things we want to accomplish with regional park impact fees,
we still have the option of paying that off early without penalty and
saving ourselves the interest that would have been paid over a
ten-year period. So I think that's a strong element to look at, and I
would like to -- to discuss that further as we move ahead.
The second thing is we saw a lot of presentation
relative to the Skimmers. And as much as -- and John knows I'm an
ardent supporter of the program and an ardent supporter of the kids
that are involved, but I also feel that the Skimmers are going to pay
their own way in a sense. They are going to construct their stands.
They're going to raise those funds. The county's not going to be
building all of the facilities solely for the purpose so the Skimmers
can continue.
John has had programs elsewhere that have funded
themselves, and I have every confidence in the world that he'll
continue that. So I'm also looking at this as beyond the Skimmers as
a place for our residents to go have a fresh water swim, as a true
passive recreation area in the urban area. And, again, I -- I'm -- I
don't need to continue to list my support. I think that -- that's
obvious.
So the two things I'd like to concentrate on are, yes,
there are maybe $500,000 worth of site improvements, but those that
are specific to the Skimmers would be the responsibility of the
Skimmers, but those that serve the general public would be the
responsibility of this board to find a way to finance and fund. And
with that I'll shut up.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I would like to ask Commissioner
Hancock then based on what you just said what -- what plan and what
program the Skimmers have over the next several years to raise the --
what appears to be several hundreds of thousands of dollars for
pavilions and parking lots and bleachers and all those things. I'm
going to want to -- be wanting to hear that plan.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Because I don't want to commit
money. I don't want to get into a purchase in the belief that the
Skimmers are going to do this and then they don't or they're not able
to.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And I won't -- I won't speak for
John, but the Skimmers can continue as they are now. They run a show
every Sunday out there with a good attendance. They have bleachers in
place, not as much as they'd like, maybe not to handle future crowds,
but I think they're in a position that what we are setting aside is an
area, not necessarily an improvement plan but setting aside an area
for them to work within.
The balance of the land would be what the county focuses
on for improvements. So I think the Skimmers potentially can grow at
whatever rate they are able to finance, but the important thing is if
they can continue their program, the kids continue the program, and
there's a place for it to happen. So I don't think we necessarily
have to lock in every dollar of how the Skimmers are going to pay for
each seat but set aside the area for them. And should the Skimmers at
some time, God forbid, fail or dissolve, we still have a regional park
in the urban area for our residents to use. I think it's -- it's not
really a losing situation in -- in either case.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Mr. Olliff, do you have
other comments you need to make?
MR. OLLIFF: No. I think -- I think John Gursoy did a
follow-up to your -- the slide show that they had prepared for you. I
think he's got some video that he wanted to try and show and I think a
brief presentation as well.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there -- are there other
questions on what you've seen so far from the commission?
There are -- Mr. Gutsoy, do you want to move ahead?
MR. GURSOY: Sure. John Gursoy, president of the Gulf
Coast Skimmers Water Ski Show. And, Madam -- Chairman Matthews, what
I'm going to do is give you a brochure from 1984 from an organization
I ran just like this in which we in 1980 purchased 108 acres of land
in northern Wisconsin with a 16-acre private lake, a freshwater lake.
And they constructed 3,500 square feet of buildings and bleachers on
their own raising our funds through our shows just like we do down
here so if I can submit that.
What I want to do today is just take a brief moment.
We've seen some aerial drawings in this room here such as the one on
your left side which is an aerial shot for surveying purposes. But
what I have here is also some helicopter footage of the property that
will give you a better perspective of what we're talking about here.
I'd like to take the Skimmer focus off. Let's take a
look at Lake Avalon as a passive park as Commissioner Hancock
mentioned. What you're seeing here is an aerial view of the lake
looking from the south up to the north. And you can begin to see how
regional it is relative to the rest of the county.
Off to the right-hand side you can see our show going
on. We only use about a sixteenth to an eighth of the lake during the
actual show. Practices, too, use a little bit more than that. But
again, looking at the property, you have a 60-acre freshwater lake,
120 acres on the total property.
To the west here you can see Port Royal, Naples Bay, and
the Gulf less than a mile away from there as far as the way the bird
flies. Plenty of land here to the left for pavilions, picnicking.
The water would be absolutely fabulous for canoeing, swimming. You're
talking about roller blading, bicycling, perhaps weddings out there.
You're talking about family reunions, father-and-son fishing,
mother-and-daughter, you know, fishing, vice versa.
There you see Sabal Bay off in the distance, those
fields there that belong to the Colliers. We are four blocks away
from Sabal Bay.
And with that, I think this is strategically located in
town. You're looking at $12,500 per acre to acquire this property
versus, you know, typical parts that have been purchased at a little
bit higher price than that, as high as, you know, seventeen five an
acre, as high as 34,000 that might be purchased here in the future.
A critical triangle -- I've spoken about that again --
Thomasson, Bayshore, and 41 and what's going on in that neighborhood
and what a boost this would be.
But, again, I want to emphasize the neat things that
could on there like the hiking trails, kite flying, Sunfish sailboats,
rowing, canoeing, Frisbee.
You saw in Michael Redd's presentation there were two
playing fields. Initially those can serve as overflow grass parking
lots for evening concerts in events that can be held in our -- held in
our bleachers, radio-controlled boats out there. There's a
radio-controlled boat club that's approached us about having some
activities out there, all sorts of neat things.
Your questions in regard to the Skimmers' funding
process -- right now our bleachers, which is our biggest expense, are
donated by business people in town here, Taylor Rental in
specifically, and they're still on board with us with that commitment.
We'll eventually secure our own. They're $5,000 per hundred people,
so that's very attainable with the income that we're bringing in at
this time.
The permanent buildings, we have some very strong
commitments from builders in town here and contractors to donate those
materials. And as Commissioner Hancock mentioned, we're performing
right now to full potential, and we can build into it progressively
with no cost to the county.
Thirteen percent of the people that are visiting the
lake right now are from the Fort Myers area, Cape Coral, Punta Gorda,
Bonita according to our surveys that the kids take so it's already
exercising its regional abilities to date right now without a lot of
earth-shaking advertising.
And, again, I'd just ask you to have the vision that
Frederick Olmsted had back 137 years ago when he suggested the idea of
Central Park, and we'll have a great park, so thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Gursoy has mentioned a lot of
the possible uses that we could have for the future, and I think
that's one of the most important things we need to look at.
There's enough property out there where sometime in the
future we could do any number of things with it depending on the
changing needs of our community. Immediately we could do such things
-- I don't believe I heard mentioned such things as a skateboard
facility out there. That's something that the community has been
crying over.
My kids were skateboarding here a few years back, and
three of them were right on the front page of the newspaper. You
could pick up the newspaper and you'd think it's the same discussion
that's going on today. I mean, nobody wants them around in their
commercial parking lots, but we could perhaps put in a skateboard
facility. We could have roller blade hockey out there. We could have
roller blading trails and any number of things for the community.
It's -- it's a real opportunity that we want to look
very hard at today, but I -- I would imagine that we have a number of
public speakers who are going to tell us some of this stuff so --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I believe we have about 20.
Also, Commissioner Norris, you keep saying out there and
we keep having these people say it's in there so --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: It's right there.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Right there.
MR. GURSOY: Commissioner Matthews, I just handed out
earlier to you some numbers that were done on a loan-to-mortgage
calculator based on --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. I've already done some
mathematics on them. Thank you.
MR. GURSOY: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me ask a question on
these, and John or Tom needs to help me with it. But this shows 3
years, 4 years, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years. I assume that the
percentage in parentheses is the percent per year of regional impact
fees if elected?
MR. GURSOY: Again, 600,000 is the number that was used.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay. I think this may add
some credence to Commissioner Hancock's point as we may make
dedication for ten years but probably three or four year -- probably
four years is a realistic -- four to five years, those are realistic.
If you're putting half the money, which is roughly what it is for four
years, aside, then that leaves half of your money to go toward the
other projects that you mentioned. So I think your point is well
taken that if even if we say a ten-year time period, the four years or
five years is very realistic.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: On that point, Mr. Dorrill,
correct me if I'm wrong, but if we use our short-term line of credit,
we don't actually commit to a certain time schedule. We would have to
do that sort of informally, but we would have the ability to pay that
off any time we wanted to at any rate we wanted to at any speed we
wanted to. If we were in a position where we knew that we had nothing
coming up in the next three or four years, for example, to -- to use
these funds for, we could -- we could use all of the funds collected
in one year, for example, if you want to do that and cut it down very
fast.
On the other hand, if there were projects in line that
needed to be funded, we have the flexibility just automatically to
slow the payments down for this project. So it's a very flexible way
of funding, and that's exactly the intent -- the intended purpose that
these short-term line of credits are for.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Madam Chairman, could I just
make one suggestion before we go to the public speakers?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. Sure. Why not?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can we just get a feel from
the board -- we have 20 people and the board is leaning -- I'm going
to assume none of those 20 people are going to get up and say, we
don't want this, absolutely. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm going to
assume those 20 people are all supporting the park in -- in some way,
shape, or manner. And I would just be interested to see what the
feeling of the board is so that they have some idea as they get up to
say their thing whether they're preaching to the choir or whether they
have some convincing to do here.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, I'm intrigued by
Commissioner Norris's comments, and he's obviously more experienced in
the finance end than I am, but I like the idea of the flexibility of
being able to allocate on an annual basis a set amount of funds and
determine the payback in essence yearly. I mean, we can set a time
frame initially but shorten that time frame as the funds become
available.
That would be my preferred way of going about this. And
unless there's some public comment to the contrary, I haven't received
a single phone call or letter against Lake Avalon, so this is a
situation of are we using funds the way the people want? And -- and
I'm obviously leaning in that direction, but I'll withhold complete
comment until public -- the public has spoken.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, I can assure you there is
opposition to it, trust me, but they're not as vocal. Commissioner Constantine.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: They're very quiet.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: They're very quiet.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, I'm sure there's
someone out there that thinks it's best. CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yes.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There always is.
I would say at this point I would concur with
Commissioner Hancock's comment. I lean toward the project. As I said
earlier, regional park impact fees are for one purpose and one purpose
only, and that's for regional parks. And this certainly fills that
need. And I think perhaps Commissioner Norris's suggestion for our
flexibility as far as financing is a good approach for it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Why don't we --
MR. DORRILL: With that, perhaps we'll be able to zip
through these fairly quickly.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. Why don't we move to the
-- to the public comment. And I -- I think that the public in
general has -- has heard that four commissioners here want to find a
way to do this. They want to find a way to do it the most economical
way that we can, yet at the same time not put our other park projects
that have been in the budget for a number of years at a jeopardy at
well -- as well. The -- the tough problem here is finding a way to do
it all, and that may not be easy.
Mr. Dorrill, I have one question before we go to the
public comment and that is our -- our commercial paper program or --
and/or our line of credit. What's the availability of that program?
What does it generally cost us to use that paper program borderline of
credit? Is it maxed out? What's available?
MR. DORRILL: It's not maxed out. I can determine from
Mr. Yonkosky what the application and/or closing cost fees are for
either one of those two. They're -- they're very positive and nominal
with -- compared to other traditional financing mechanisms.
We typically use those over a three- to four-year
period. The one good example is when we purchased the Gargiulo
property that is between us and the Wal-Hart store for long-term
growth and parking expansion. We financed that acquisition. In fact,
we're there -- we'll be in our final year of payment opportunity on
those but I'll get those numbers for you before we get to the end of
this.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Typically do the -- do the
closing and application fees and so forth loan 2 or 3 percent of the
-- of the amount borrowed?
MR. DORRILL: That's -- that's my recollection, and
that's what it is. It's really nominal when compared to other
underwriting costs or costs of issuance for more traditional-type
bonding.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And the interest that we
generally get on that program is not 7 percent. It's considerably
less?
MR. DORRILL: It is. I want to say four and a half
percent which was the most recent rate which is really unheard of.
I'd like to have some four and a half percent.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah, I would too.
Let's move on with public speakers.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Gursoy, were you finished?
MR. GURSOY: Yes. Actually I just want to say really
quickly we are very sensitive with regard to the other projects that
might be up on the boards in the future. From our homework that we've
done with staff that, you know, the projects that are available out
there, the other regional parks will be about, you know, five, six
years ahead in regard to population requirements, and then by that
time I think Avalon should be fully taken care of at that time
hopefully so it won't affect it at all, so thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Carpenter and then Ms. Petz, P-e-t-z.
Hang on one second, Mr. Carpenter.
Ms. Petz, are you here?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: She was.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yes. She's right here.
MR. DORRILL: I'm sorry. Did you wish to speak, or did
you just want to be recognized in '-
MS. PETZ: I just want to be recognized.
MR. DORRILL: Okay. She's one that just wants to know
that -- wants you to know that she's here in support. Mr. Fiala?
MR. FIALA: In support.
MR. DORRILL: As well.
Hiss Konwiser?
MS. KONWISER: Over here.
MR. DORRILL: Thank you. Do you care to speak?
MS. KONWISER: I just have a comment here.
MR. DORRILL: Very good. Then you'll follow
Mr. Carpenter.
Mr. Carpenter, good morning. Go ahead.
MR. CARPENTER: Good morning. Dave Carpenter with the
East Naples Civic Association. And as you know, we're longtime
supporters of the concept of a regional park at Lake Avalon.
We're also delighted to see what appears to be a change
in the thinking of some of the county commissioners to fall in with
this project. The time has come. It's time to get it done.
Without going back over what John has said in making a
lot of grand pronouncements on the park itself, I think on the
financing thing, one thing that might -- the board might want to
consider and that is you are in the process of bringing into your
inventory of properties that Hubschman property down on 41 across from
the Hitching Post.
Now, we've heard some rumblings that this might be a
site for a park. We don't think that's really an appropriate site for
the park, for a park to be next to sewage ponds. But that is highway
commercial, and we would recommend as part of your -- part of your
funding that you may consider selling that property and using the
proceeds for that to help finance Lake Avalon, maybe with an earlier
payoff than what you'd already anticipated. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Miss Konwiser. Mr. Kratt.
Go right ahead.
MS. KONWISER: I'm Audrey Konwiser. I live in Royal
Harbor. I am not a Skimmer, nor are any of my family Skimmers, but I
just wanted to say that there's been so much emphasis in the county
about tourist attraction, and I'm delighted to know that you want to
-- or you're considering the parks, since we do have the money from
the impact fees that you're considering using it for the people who
are already here. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. or Mrs. Kratt from Dominion Drive if
you'd raise your hand, please. Care to speak?
MR. KRATT: I don't wish to speak. I'm just a '-
MR. DORRILL: If you're going to say anything at all,
we'll need to have it on the tape recorder.
And then following Mr. Kratt, we have Representative
Saunders. Is he still here?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think he had to leave.
MR. KRATT: Good morning. My name is Joe Kratt. I'm a
22-year resident. My property abuts the property in question in that
there, and I wholeheartedly cannot support what you all are proposing
right now as the way it stands. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Thank you. Mr. Saunders has left. Ms.
Stan or Star of 98th Avenue West here in support.
Miss Miller.
MS. MILLER: Hey, I'm back.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is there a little thing
underneath there for her to stand on?
MR. DORRILL: Wait. Wait. Let me check here.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You've designed a special
stool for her?
MR. DORRILL: Keep the reg. number so we can --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have to use that, too, so don't
feel bad.
MS. MILLER: As you know, I'm Kristy Miller. I am a
Gulf Coast Skimmer for about two years.
I have a question for you. I have done some research,
and I would like to ask you if you know what the definition of Avalon
is?
Okay. What the definition of -- Avalon is an island
paradise from the legend of King Arthur. And Lake Avalon, the
definition of it is a paradise for the people of Collier County. And
that's pretty much all I have to say.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Kristy.
MR. DORRILL: Miss Fiala. Following her I have Mr.
Joyce.
MS. FIALA: I'm Donna Fiala. And I'm past president of
the East Naples Civic Association, but I want to speak on behalf of
everyone in the county who's looking forward to a regional park. And
I just want to say that it seems like this park in particular is going
to contain a lot of things that we haven't had in this county before,
and I'm sure we're all going to enjoy them, and it sounds like you're
going to back this and I want to thank you all. Thanks.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Joyce is coming forward, and following
Mr. Joyce we'll have Commissioner Haase.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you. My name is Bill Joyce. I'm a
resident of LaBelle. I'm wearing today the dress uniform of the
United States Olympic Athlete. I'm a member of the United States
Disabled Water Ski Team and I want to tell you that -- about
water-skiing from an economic perspective.
Forty-three years ago the town of Minocqua, Wisconsin,
funded the creation of the Aqua Bowl. I attended that city council
meeting at the age of 12. The city agreed to finance the construction
of our clubhouse, our stands, our lighting and -- and we agreed to
repay them, the collections, and we did. That town has been repaid
100 percent. We put on three shows a week; Wednesday, Friday and
Sunday evenings. The facility is used during the daytime to train.
The merchants that are around the area have been smiling ever since.
Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday evening are the best times they have
during the tourist season.
This past April, I traveled to Mowalla, Australia, where
I skied in the world championships for disabled skiers. Brought a
poster with me. And, Mike, if you -- Michael Dove from Alva took his
day off to drive me here today. But in Mowalla that club has 3,000
active members. The city supported the creation of the club. They
authorized in Australia a slot machine-only casino that's owned by the
club that funds their entire youth project. When you're in Mowalla,
what you won't see is graffiti. What does not exist are youth gangs,
and youth crime is among the lowest in the nation of Australia.
Now that waterskiing is an olympic sport, we see the
funding of teams in each nation by their olympic committees. In
Australia for this championship brought -- 16 nations sent teams.
Typically tournaments are held during the off -- tourist off-season.
Between July 20th and the end of August you see the major tournaments.
This site has the ability to serve as -- for the
regional tournaments, for the national tournaments, and for world
championship tournaments in addition to being a wonderful facility for
your local skiers.
I also brought back with me, and I'm proud to say, the
gold medal that was one of three medals that I won in Australia, and
now in '96 for the first time water-skiing will be included in the
disabled Olympics and in 2004, a full olympic sport.
The creation of a facility of this nature in this region
provides the only real opportunity that youth who don't fit into the
traditional sports of little league football, et cetera, have to get
into waterskiing and to develop their own -- you know, channel their
energy into a constructive activity and pursue their olympic goals.
And I predict to you that with the creation of this kind
of a facility, we will see the day when youngsters will be getting off
the plane and bringing home olympic gold, okay, to this area. But
they can't do that now. Okay. So there's an economic benefit,
there's a residual -- there's -- there's a life-style benefit, quality
of life. There are no losers. This is win-win for everybody.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. Thank
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Excuse me. We didn't
MR. GERSOY: Do you have any questions?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I don't believe there are.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We're just admiring your tie.
MR. DORRILL: Commissioner Haase and then Dave Gursoy.
MR. HAASE: I'm very comfortable standing and sitting in
front of you people for a change.
I'd like to give a little bit of history. My name is
Max Haase. I've lived in Collier County for some 20 years. I've -- I
have a history in Parks and Recreation. I was an executive director
of the Bergen County park system in Bergen County, New Jersey. I was
a director of the Parks and Recreation of the City of Naples when I
came down here and retired. That was some retirement, I can assure
you of that. Then I retired from that job to run for commissioner,
and I became a commissioner for eight years, which is really an
interesting job as you people can attest to.
We've always sought a regional park here in Collier
County. And now I'm on the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board,
thanks to Steve and this commissioner. Why, I think it's time we do
finally find this regional park. I know there's some problems with
financing, but these problems can be overcome in many of the ways you
have discussed here this morning. I -- I look forward to this
regional park, particularly an idea that it's going to be a county
park, and this is one of the things we cannot lose sight of it. It
belongs to Collier County, and it will be run by the Collier County
Parks Department.
True, the Skimmers have a spot in it. I was unhappy
that the Botanical Society stepped out of it. I might tell you that,
but we have a botanical park basically there in a natural area. Let's
keep it. Let's enhance it. Let's help the Skimmers move forward in
their venture and let them contribute what they can to it as a county
regional park and I see it coming forward as that, and I'm very
thankful we've got a vote here today that looks positive. Thanks,
everybody.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Gursoy, if, Mr. Owens, I
could have you stand by, please, sir.
MR. GURSOY: Good morning, commissioners. My name is
Dave Gutsoy. I have been a resident of Collier County for 18 years.
Currently I'm a resident of North Naples. I'm also a Gulf Coast
Skimmer and a member of their board of directors.
As you can see by my gray hair, I'm also the oldest of
the Gutsoy brothers involved with this whole project. I want to thank
you for hearing us and for your time, your consideration of the Lake
Avalon project, and especially for your responsiveness to try and find
a way to make this happen now in response to the huge outcry of public
support that has been evidenced.
Butt Saunders had to leave a little earlier, and he
asked me if I would read a letter into the record. As everyone knows,
Butt Saunders was formerly a county commissioner and is currently a
Florida state representative.
His letter said, Dear Commissioners: In 1994, you first
considered the acquisition of Lake Avalon -- of the Lake Avalon park
site. There was discussion of the public/private partnership
involving Collier County government, the Collier County Botanical
Society and the Gulf Coast Skimmers. It was anticipated that a
community park with a world class botanical garden along with the
youth program established by the Gulf Coast Skimmers would not only
provide much needed recreational amenities for all of Collier County
but would result in a significant tourist facility. Unfortunately,
the Botanical Garden Society has opted out of the proposal. However,
all other positive elements of the initial proposal remain.
There has been an offer of private funding in the amount
of $500,000. Additional private funds will be available for park
facilities and promotion of the Gulf Coast Skimmers program. The
attraction -- excuse me. The Gulf Coast Skimmers will continue to
provide a significant attraction to the park.
The obvious benefits of a public/private partnership
still remain for this site. This East Naples site will provide
recreational amenities not available in any other park. The pristine
sixty-acre lake provides opportunities that are easily envisioned.
One only needs to look across the lake to understand the significant
value to the public that this site offers.
You are continually called upon to make very tough
financial decisions. With partial private funding, you will be able
to make the regional park impact fees go much further. I urge you to
move forward with the acquisition of the Lake Avalon park site. I
truly believe that future generations of Collier Countians will view
this acquisition as a very wise decision, Very truly yours, Butt L.
Saunders.
In closing, the other day I was listening to the Rich
King Show and I believe it was -- Commissioner Norris happened to call
in that day as I was listening to the program. I don't recall if it
was Commissioner Norris that said this or if it was Rich King but one
of them said, what a novel idea, use regional park impact fees for a
regional park.
The Gulf Coast Skimmers applaud your efforts in making
this a reality -- making this park a reality now. And, again, thank
you for your time.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Gutsoy.
MR DORRILL: Mr. Owens, did you care to speak?
MR OWENS: No.
MR DORRILL: And Ms. Owens the same?
MS OWENS: (Shakes head.)
MR DORRILL: Thank you. Mr. Delgenio or Delgenio.
MR DELGENIO: I'd like to speak.
MR DORRILL: Okay. Come right ahead. This is Brandon.
MR DELGENIO: My name is Brandon Delgenio and I would
just like to say that a lot of kids don't fit into the sports that
they would like to fit into and I was one of those kids. I didn't --
I always wanted to play baseball but I really -- after I started to
play, it really didn't just -- I didn't really felt like I fit into
that sport.
I came here and I was walking. I went -- my friends
showed me the lake, and I was walking around it, and I met Mr. Gutsoy,
and he told me that he was making the Gulf Coast Skimmers and I
joined, and this is a sport that I would like to stay -- that I would
like to stay with.
And I was -- and I just wanted to tell you guys that
this park is -- this has really helped me a lot. My grades have went
up. I am an ADD student. We've -- they've helped me with a lot of
things that went on. They've just helped me with a lot of things, and
that's all that I would like to say.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Brandon.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Kennedy. You're in support. And a
Chris Petro or DePetro.
MR. DEPETRO: In support.
MR. DORRILL: Thank you. Mr. Nicol. Mr. Duncan Nicol.
Ms. Nichols-Lucy.
MS. NICHOLS-LUCY: Good morning. My name is Sue
Nichols-Lucy, and I will just briefly summarize a letter that's being
presented to you from Dr. Fitch.
On behalf of the Conservancy, I would like to urge you
to support this item. As Collier County rapidly develops, open space
is becoming increasingly limited. Areas such as Lake Avalon once
developed cannot be reconverted to open space. This property has the
location, access, and physical properties to be a successful park. In
addition, Lake Avalon would be an excellent anchor for a community
greenway system of which we're working. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Walden.
MR. WALDEN: Good morning. I'm Mike Walden and a
resident of the neighborhood that you propose to -- to purchase the
park in. I'd like to thank everyone for their efforts. It's been an
amazing Odyssey. I've attended several meetings. This is the first
time I've spoken.
I'd like to say that the influence of the whole park
idea in the neighborhood has been excellent. I've seen improvements
both in the area itself -- of course, I've attended several of the
Skimmers' shows and productions. They're wonderful as you -- most of
you know.
The biggest thing that I want to say is that my
neighborhood is sort of in transition. As you know, the corridor
along Thomasson and Bayshore have had their problems in the past.
Many of the streets and my neighbors unfortunately still have their
problems. I think that the park can be a very positive influence in
the whole area.
There's been a lot said about the Skimmers and, of
course, they have helped bring what was pretty much a decimated piece
of property back from folks involving homelessness and -- and other
bad things that were going on in the particular area.
My daughter was, in fact, afraid to go back down by that
area. There were bad people in there she told me when she was about
seven. She no longer feels that way and frequents the area for the
Gulf Skimmers practices and shows.
So I'd like to encourage you most strongly to help us
build a better neighborhood and purchase this park no matter what Jeff
Lytle says and just stop our whining on the east side. Thanks.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Lynch. You're in support? Did she
raise her hand?
COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yes.
MR. DORRILL: Thank you. And Mr. Lynch.
MR. LYNCH: Support.
MR. DORRILL: As well. Thank you. Mr. Marlin.
Mr. Marlin is your last registered speaker.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. MARLIN: I'm Earl Marlin. I'm speaking for myself
today which gives me more freedom to speak. I have never encountered
a program that seemed to have such universal support as this. Other
than the one man who spoke over on the other side a little while ago
was. The only one I've run into that seems to be opposed to it is
Jeff Lytle, and I think he thinks that because it's located in east
Naples, we should be punished for not welcoming St. Matthews House.
Whatever the reason, I would hope that you will pass
this, and I wouldn't go in for any fancy financing. It's very simple,
and that's the way I've made my living all my life. Simply borrow the
money; pay it off as quick as you can. You can borrow at cheap rates.
That's not hard to do. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
That concludes our speakers, Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: It does and I have an answer to the
question. The current best and short-term program for us would be the
Commercial Paper Program, because we are beyond the application costs
the way it was structured. The program is several years old now, so
there are no costs of issuance or application fees to us as a charter
subscriber to that program. Costs have been previously prepaid so we
could borrow the money at zero administrative or application cost.
You're well aware that the rate is a variable rate. The current rate
as of today is 4.8 percent.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: 4.8?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And would we be able to lock into
that figure for the three years, or is it a variable rate? MR. DORRILL: It's a variable.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It's a variable. Okay. Well, I
guess we are at the point where we need to discuss this. Mr. Olliff.
MR. OLLIFF: Just real quickly, I never did really make
a presentation. I don't think I really needed to, but there are a
couple of points that I would like to -- to at least get on the
record. One, I wanted to indicate to you that your Parks and Rec
Advisory Board did formally look at this. And I believe you all
received a letter faxed to you from Mr. Joe Zacks (phonetic)
indicating their support of the project.
In addition, at the end should the board decide to
proceed with the project, I have a couple of specific authorizations
that I need from you as your staff for the real properties department
in order to be able to process title searches and those types of
things.
In addition, some of you have received some information about the
Florida Communities Trust Program which is part of that P-2000 money
from Tallahassee. This is a project which I think fits hand and glove
with that particular program. The program leans itself a little this
year in -- in the application process towards juvenile justice-type
programs or those that would help prevent juvenile delinquency-type
programs.
I cannot guarantee you that we would get money from that
grant process, but I will tell you that we would like to make
application should the board decide to proceed with this. The grant
is structured in a way that the communities can get reimbursement for
monies spent within a one-year period. The grant application cycle
fits us perfectly as well as the application deadline is the end of
August. There's $10,000,000 in that P-2000 funds specifically for
these type projects. So I -- you know, you certainly can't be assured
of that, but that's something we would like to make application for.
I think this project is well under.
Lastly, just from the staff perspective, the things that
we thought were good to mention in terms of this particular park
project, your Growth Management Citizens Advisory Committee at their
first meeting, one of the things that they thought they wanted to
concentrate on in the amendment cycle was more parks of a passive
nature. This is the type of park we do not have in our system. The
more green space, natural nature trailed picnic areas and canoe-type
facilities, we simply don't have that type of park in our inventory
today. We like the park from a maintenance standpoint. The cost of
maintaining a park like this one is much, much lower than it is a 100
percent active park like your community parks. And, lastly, the fact
that it's located in your urban area, I think it meets umpteen numbers
of your Growth Management Plan objectives in that they provide some
green space in the middle of what is an urban area. And for those
reasons, we think this is a good project.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I've got one question regarding
the P-2000 grant monies. Are there -- what kind of strings are
attached to it?
MR. OLLIFF: They do require some match. They don't
indicate exactly how much match, but I think we would try -- and
naturally try and put an application in that would have us applying
for the maximum amount of money that we thought we could possibly get
and have the county's match as small as it could possibly be, but most
of those grant application processes, the larger the match, the better
off you are in terms of being awarded. So we would try and call some
people who had been awarded perhaps and see what their experience has
been in trying to put together an application package that mirrored
those.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is that money for the purchase of
the land, or is it only for infrastructure filled out? MR. OLLIFF: It's for land.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It's for the land itself?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay, Madam Chairman, if I may, I
was pleased when I brought this -- Terry Trideser (phonetic) gave me
this information on the Florida Communities Trust last week and I
quickly showed it to Mr. Dotrill and found out very happily that --
that it was already being worked on. The quote in here is that FCT,
meaning the Florida's Communities Trust, will also ensure that
$10,000,000 is awarded for land acquisition projects that demonstrate
the potential to mitigate juvenile crime to the provision of
recreational opportunities. I mean which one of you Skimmers called
the state on this because it sounds custom tailored?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Olliff, are we -- are we
assured that Mr. Sugden is on board if we purchase the entire
property?
MR. OLLIFF: There's one thing I forgot off my notes to
mention to you. Mr. Sugden unfortunately is in New York and put me in
the difficult position of having to represent his interest here
without him being here.
What I tried to do was make sure that what I was
representing to you in the executive summary reflected his desires. I
Federal Expressed to him a copy of that executive summary and asked
that should he have any problem with anything that was said in there
and in terms of representing his contribution or any of his other
interests to please give me a call. Primarily, I had reflected
exactly in the executive summary a phone call conversation that I had
had with him the day before the executive summary was drafted, so I
think what's in your executive summary indicates that he is on board
should the county purchase the entire site, and I believe that to be
true today.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Board members, I think
we've heard over the last few months about every aspect of this
project that -- that you can hear. And it's very important to
understand that we have been told here that this will satisfy a lot of
our Growth Management Plan commitments that we've made in the past.
Currently our regional park impact fees are spent on
other types of parks and it's a good opportunity to finally start
spending these impact fees on a regional park. We've -- we've heard
today that we have the flexibility and the financing readily available
at very attractive interest rates. And what it amounts to is today
we're going to make a decision that's going to affect all of us, those
of us that are already here and those of us that will be here in the
future, are children and our grandchildren as Collier moves on out
towards build-out. The question is is this commission going to be
remembered in the future as one who had the vision and the foresight
to set aside this large area of green space in the urban area for our
use in the future while we had the opportunity, or will we be
remembered as someone who let this opportunity slip between our
fingers. I think probably the -- from what I heard from the board
today, we're all aware of the future impact of this, so, Miss
Chairman, if it's all right with you, I will make a motion that we
proceed to purchase the Lake Avalon property under option number one
contingent on Mr. Sugden joining us with his $500,000 private
contribution and that we use our commercial paper for -- for the
financing option.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second.
Could -- a couple of things I would like to ask the motion maker and
the second to consider, and that is that we continue to commit the
previously addressed $500,000 from the '94-'95 budget to this project
and that we borrow only the 1.1 million and --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That I understood was part of
option one. If it's not, I was mistaken. And then I'll certainly
include that in the motion, but I assume that that was already a part
of option one.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. And I would like to
ask the motion maker to consider committing $250,000 a year to the
payoff of this note which would pay it off in five years. And if we
can do it sooner than that, that would be fine, but I would -- I would
not like it to go much further than that because of the considerable
interest.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me understand. You're saying
a minimum of two hundred and -- what was it, 250?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: A minimum $250,000 a year --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: A minimum of --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- would pay it off in five
years.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: -- $250,000 but with the
flexibility to speed it up --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Pay more.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: -- if desired.
That's fine. I'll make that a part of the motion as
well.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Then I have one last
consideration and that is that we have -- we have heard that the
Skimmers are willing to produce programs and raise funds in order to
fund their portion of the build-out over time. And, frankly, they're
going to have a difficult time raising enough money to do it on the
facilities they have right now, and I would like us to consider if we
can advance them money based on their design to get the build-out
completed and ask them to pay that back to us out of future revenues.
MR. CUYLER: You can't per se advance them monies, but
there may be a way to construct facilities as part of the park that
they would later reimburse us.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I would make a suggestion
that -- CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. We could lease the
facilities to them and they -- we could get the money back.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Why don't I make a suggestion
that we give staff direction to come back with the specifics of how we
do that.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Separate item. That's a separate
item. I'll make that part of the motion to give that direction
though.
MR. OLLIFF: That's fine because the lease agreement has
to be worked out in any case once it becomes county property, and then
that would be a good occasion to bring that -- that option back as
well.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: So I would like to see them get
their program under way as quickly as possible but I also recognize
that it is a private group and that these build-out items they should
MR. OLLIFF: Right.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- they should pay for.
MR. OLLIFF: Right. If I could, there are some specific
things that I need to get you to authorize in order for us to be able
to close on that property.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Oh, and the grant application.
MR. OLLIFF: The first is to authorize the staff prepare
all documents for approval by the office of the County Attorney.
The second is to authorize the chairman to execute any
and all documents to effectuate a clear title on the property.
The third is to accept all of those documents and
authorize staff to record those in the public records of Collier
County.
And, lastly, to authorize some budget amendments that
will be necessary in order to be able to do some title searches and
closing cost issues not to exceed $22,000.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: The motion maker includes those
stipulations.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: One other request of the motion
maker. Will you include in your motion direction for staff to proceed
with the grant for Florida Committies -- Florida Communities Trust --
trust fund money?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: So included. And are you running
out of paper?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: No. No. I -- I'm about half way
down the sheet, but it's finished.
Does the second accept all of those amendments?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Fine. If there's not further
discussion, I'll call the question. All in favor please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
Let's take a quick break.
I'm sorry. 4 to 0. Commissioner Hac'Kie abstained.
(A short break was held.)
Item #SA1
NEGOTIATIONS WITH VENDORS FOR PURCHASE OF AN INTEGRATED HANAGEHENT
INFORMATION SYSTEM FOR THE COHMUNITY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DIVISION,
PURSUANT TO RFP-94-2271 - STAFF RECOHMENDATION APPROVED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Reconvene the Board of County
Commission meeting for June 6th, 1995.
Could we turn to Item 8-A (1), which is an authorization
to enter into negotiations with vendors for community development
services?
Miss Edwards.
MS. EDWARDS: Good morning.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Good morning.
MS. EDWARDS: My name is Jennifer Edwards and I'm here
this morning --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Title unknown.
MS. EDWARDS: Title unknown, that's right. It's like
the outgoing acting something.
This item that we're presenting to you today represents
the result of a three-and-a-half-year study by community development
staff. A nine member Q-plus task team conducted the needs assessment
and worked with the purchasing department on the selection process.
The team leader for this nine-member team has been
Maggie Bowles. Maggie is a senior planner with our growth management
section. Maggie will be presenting this item to you this morning.
Maggie joined the county's growth management staff five years ago. In
addition to planning, Maggie designed the tracking system which
monitors the concurrency impact on all public facilities. Prior to
moving to Florida, Maggie spent much of her career as a research
analyst working at the corporate strategic planning level for large
system design and procurement for the Stanford Research Institute and
SAIC which is an international high tech corporation.
Now, I'm going to sit down and let Maggie come forward
and present this item.
MS. BOWLES: Good morning. We've waited three and a
half years and I've just lost my voice. For the record, I'm Maggie
Bowles. As you know, today we seek permission to open talks with the
vendors ranked number one by the purchasing department selection
committee and following negotiations to bring those results back to
you for final approval. Sufficient capital reserves will be available
to fund the anticipated cost of the project.
Briefly, let me just summarize three areas where the
selection committee focuses attention and which led to their
recommendations to rank the Gateway-Perconti proposal first and the
Workgroup-KIVA proposal second. These areas are cost,
comprehensiveness, and experience.
First cost. Gateway-Perconti jointly bid a total
project cost of $707,000, while Workgroup and KIVA teamed together and
submitted a bid of 1.6 million. The main reason for the cost spread
lies in software. Perconti proposed a base software system for
95,000, whereas KIVA's basic software package bid was a half a
million. Furthermore, the annual maintenance and continuing costs
proposed by Gateway are 65 percent less than those proposed by
Workgroup.
Second, comprehensiveness -- and may I add to that
flexibility, another important feature that we looked at. The
proposal submitted by Gateway and Perconti meets 90 percent of the RFP
requirements. And Perconti Data Systems' approach to customizing the
remaining ten percent is to sit with the customer and design the
missing pieces prior to building and installing the system. Also
Perconti will provide the source code and all the system documentation
with his software. This gives us the flexibility to maintain the
software should the firm dissolve. Gateway's hardware proposal also
meets our flexibility requirements to potentially grow the system one
hundred percent over the next five years, something that we asked for
in the RFP if it's necessary. Now, this growth that we ask for refers
to the date of storage capacity, not necessarily adding -- doubling
the number of PC's on the system.
Work -- the Workgroup-KIVA team on the other hand --
their proposal meets only about 65 percent of what we specified in the
RFP. They lack, for example, a complete contractual licensing module,
a complete code enforcement module. According to our specifications,
they failed to submit a telephone interface for scheduling
inspections, and they did not submit a comprehensive hardware-software
plan. They merely gave us the number of pieces to the hardware plan
and it was very difficult for us to understand how those hardware
pieces would communicate to form a network and how that network then
would communicate with the rest of the county which we aim to achieve.
And more importantly, they did not include the source code and the
system documentation. KIVA does offer its source code at a
considerable additional cost.
Finally, experience and, in particular, Florida local
government experience. We didn't want to buy just a generic system.
The Perconti Data Systems has specialized in the last 12 years in
Florida local government, land management systems. They have portions
of this system currently operating in 15 cities and counties across
the state, whereas KIVA has only one installation in Florida and major
problems exist at that site. Furthermore, Mr. Perconti remains active
with the Florida State Building Officials Association and the Florida
Association of Code Enforcement. Changes in state regulations are
therefore included in software updates. He also sponsors an annual
users conference group for all of his customers.
The other thing that was important to us was that
Gateway and Perconti have teamed together on other projects. For
Workgroup and KIVA, this would be their first time working together
under a new partnership. As far as we know, we would be their first
customer.
In closing, let me mention that throughout the project
we have sought the development community's advice and input into what
we want to do and what we hope to achieve. We have solicited their
ideas and we've kept them informed.
With that, let me introduce to you the president of the
Gateway Computer Associates who's here, Ann Balm (phonetic), and
president of Perconti Data Systems, Sal Perconti, who are here to
answer your questions along with purchasing and the IT department.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Hiss Bowles.
Do you have questions? Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: This seems like it's somewhat
of a no-brainer for the board to select --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Just a minute. Would both of you
care to want to come up here and have a seat if you're on call for
questions.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Selection committee's been
working on this forever, has done a lot of hard work, has carefully
laid out the reasons why they've made their recommendation. I don't
think there's any question that the project needs to be done, and it's
a matter of who's the best group to do the job, and they have laid out
their recommendation, and I don't know if we have public speakers, but
I'd be happy to make a motion to follow the staff's recommendation.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
MR. DORRILL: There was one -- one speaker --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have one speaker?
MR. DORRILL: -- who probably would support --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: In support.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think he's saying he's in
support.
Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Dorrill, our -- last week we
got the big discussion by our IT department. I guess we're all on the
same page here, aren't we? I mean this is not something that's
outside of all that discussion?
MR. DORRILL: Absolutely. And, in fact, everything that
is going to be done is compatible and will mesh with your integrated
and local area network concept that Bill explained to you last week.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. So this is not something
that's outside of that discussion? MR. DORRILL: No, sir.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: That's fine. That's my only
question.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second.
Is there further discussion?
If there isn't I'll call the question. All in favor
please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
Thank you, Hiss Bowles.
Item #SD1
UPDATE ON UTILITIES' PERFORMANCE - PRESENTED
Commissioner Constantine.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have a question on the next
item, update on utilities requirements. I'm wondering what the
purpose of this is and it seems like an amazing coincidence that this
comes the same week we're having a discussion on the audit. There's
absolutely nothing in our thing here. I'm sure there's been backup
created since Wednesday, but we don't have any backup here and it just
-- if the purpose today is political, let's -- gee, let's get all the
good things going on with utilities before we discuss the audit. I'd
love to hear all the good things, but I wish this just came about as a
regular scheduled item instead of in preparation for something today.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It may well have come about as a
regularly scheduled item. And Mr. Dotrill and I had some conversation
probably not more than three weeks ago that he was asking what some of
my concerns were with his management and so forth. And I -- I don't
want to say I counseled him, but I said one of my -- one of my
concerns is that the fact that we never hear updates of what's going
on. And -- and I would presume that this update is a result of that.
MR. DORRILL: I can tell you that there were at least
three commissioners who asked for this, and this is an info item, but
I would tell you, it's -- it's not coincidental. This was initially
developed about three weeks ago. If you prefer to hear or discuss the
performance audit item in advance of this one, I'm certainly not
opposed to that. This was an informational item that is going to take
five minutes. There was no backup because it's intended to be just
some quick bullet information on where the utilities is.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It doesn't much matter
whether we hear it now or later but I just -- it was an amazing
coincidence that these two items came up in this time frame.
MR. DORRILL: Well, I'll just let what I said speak for
itself. There were no fewer than three commissioners who have asked
for this type of information, and this has been in progress since
then. I, frankly, was unaware that the performance audit was going to
be discussed until it was brought up by one of you at last week's
workshop.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Is there any reason we didn't
get any backup in our packet?
MR. DORRILL: There -- there is no executive summary.
We're going to use about four overheads here and give you some bullet
information. We have Xerox copies of these that can be made available
if -- if you want them.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: In addition, this is the kind of
thing that I particularly requested because I -- I asked for increased
informal updates. Just tell us what's going on every now and then, so
I know what -- what's out there, so that may be one reason there's not
a backup. And if we need that in the future, we can direct that.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So we should expect these on
all the different divisions and departments in the future?
MR. DORRILL: And as part of my trying to spend about
one morning a week for the foreseeable future out into the field in
getting some of my own professional observations about the variety of
departments. And, for example, I was in Mr. Olliff's division
yesterday morning and would like to give you an update on parks and
recreation activities in a couple -- I don't want to do it every week,
but as I see things that I'd like to pass along, that's what three
specific commissioners had asked for.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you. Are you ready
to move on with an update?
MR. DORRILL: Move ahead? And we can -- we can move
through this fairly quickly, but obviously the -- the point as was
stated is to give you a mid-year look at certain key performance and
activity measures that we track and also to advise you on some issues
that came about as a result of the Coopers and Lybrand performance
audit that was discussed with the board at the beginning of last year.
Frankly, if I have an additional desire here, it is to
-- to tell you that I think your employees in the utility division
are having their best year ever. And with that I'll ask Mr. McNees --
I'm going to touch on four things -- if you'll go ahead and put the
first slide up there.
I wanted to show you quickly some -- some growth. I've
got two years of history, and then we've got the current year as it is
forecast so the top items as we are at mid-year are reconciled by the
budget office and the management -- management budget office in order
to show you where we expect to be by the end of this year. The thing
that is -- that is most astounding to me is the growth in your
wastewater system and specifically the number of lift stations. Now,
we've had a one hundred percent increase in the number of lift
stations in this county since 1992. We're rounding some of the
percentages off but the growth in your utility division is truly
outstanding, and as we have been interviewing public works candidates
over the last two weeks, people from around the country cannot believe
that we're adding the number of lift stations that we're adding, the
amount of water main and sewage gravity, and force main.
To give you some quick percentages, a hundred percent
increase in lift stations, now over 500 lift stations that need to be
monitored and checked and maintained on a daily basis increasingly
using telemetry, radio signals to be able to monitor those from
central plant sites in the event that they failed or had problems, 26
percent increase in water mains installed over the same period of
time, and 31 percent increase in wastewater pipe, be it gravity or
force main. As part of that, I also asked the staff to show me and
project both from treated capacity -- again, I'm talking about just
hard and fast activity. In 1992 at the end of the year, we had
treated four and a half billion gallons of water input into the
system. This year we expect to treat a little over six billion
gallons of potable drinking water, but that's a 41 percent increase
since the end of 1992. This is absolutely astounding.
Wastewater is similar. We treated and put back into our
effluent storage and/or reused facilities 2.2 billion gallons treated
wastewater in 1992. This year, again, the major growth in our system
is in wastewater in excess of three and a half billion gallons of
sewage treated and reused a 65 percent increase again, just since
1992.
If I could have the next line? In addition to just
unprecedented growth, the second area that I wanted to touch on is
compliance. And, in fact, one of the things that I saw that triggered
this was a -- some correspondence last month from the chief of
environmental permitting for the department of environmental
protection, and I'll just read to you one -- the closing sentence. It
says, again I'd like to express my sincere thanks to the Collier
County Utility Division for their efforts in helping the district --
the district in this case being the county utility division,
maintained one of the highest compliance rates in the State of
Florida. I think that speaks very, very highly to your operators,
your chief operators, north and south county water in this particular
case. But to be recognized by the chief of environmental compliance
for the state as having one of the highest compliance records in the
state, I think, is excellent.
The slide here is showing you that all of our compliance
reports are submitted on time. In fact, we've had a zero violation in
terms of our compliance again since 1992. We've got an additional
slide that I'll show you on there.
That's intended to be -- there are three-dimensional
graphs and while it's angled up, we've actually had zero violations in
terms of our compliance reporting as it pertains to our operating
permits for both water and wastewater again since 1992.
The next thing I had asked the utility people to show me
was just some productivity and efficiency measures. The one that I
liked the most that they recommended to me was the -- the efficiency
of the field work crews and the main one that we're using here, the
numbers of meters installed per day per crew. And what you can see
and in percentage terms, the efficiency for meters installed is up 36
percent per crew. And I might add that we've had no increase in crew
size in the same period of time. So through some automated process
and work order control that they are doing and just rescheduling and,
frankly, some additional heavy equipment that was purchased in order
to make these people's jobs a little easier, we're now almost up to
four meter installations per crew per day, an increase of almost 36
percent.
The other major item for us not only in terms of
efficiency but also ultimately in finances is the accuracy of the
county's large compound meters. We pull and test these on an annual
basis for our largest wholesale water customers in order to make sure
that we're actually getting the revenue that we're entitled to, and
you can see that all of the large meters pulled and tested in
conformance with the schedule last year, and they were 99.7, almost
99.8 percent accurate when they run through the testing lab.
The last area that I had asked them to be able to show
you in just a quick snapshot today was the profitability of your
system. And while those of us in government are not here to make a
profit, this is the closest profit motive that we have. And in terms
of the utility, we're looking at combined revenues and combined
expenses. The net income of our system this year will be almost $20
million. And I think that is an important fact when through increased
efficiency and through normal growth of our system, we had not had a
rate increase. We've only had one rate increase in the entire time
that I have been the county manager here. And, Hike, you correct me
if I'm wrong. I don't think we've had a rate increase at all since
'91 or '92. And our net income in the system is up 57 percent in
just -- again, since 1992. I think that is important because we are
increasingly using cash on hand in addition to impact fees to
undertake major capital improvements. So increasingly we're
de-emphasizing bonded indebtedness for the county utility system, and
I can't tell you how important that is. And the net income here, the
$20 million that is net income will primarily be used to go into a
series of reserve funds. We have reserve for contingency. We have
reserve for capital improvements on both the water and wastewater
side. And I think it is a function of how healthy financially your
system is to be able to -- to have that type of large profit in terms
of having cash on hand to let them take their capital improvements.
The last one that is there that is part of this again is
sort of an efficiency measure that shows you the extent to which they
had tried to hold down on increasing employees, because one of the
measures that we have used and -- and compared in the past with the
Greater Naples Civic Association compares the, if you will, net income
per employee. And this is a little bit different statistic but I
think it's important to show again the type of increase that we have
had. We've had a 17-percent increase in profit, if you will, as it
compares to the number of permanent full-time employees that are hired
in the entire utility division.
In terms of needs, I went back and I pulled the Coopers
and Lybrand -- thanks, Hike. You can turn it off. There has been a
great deal of -- of media scrutiny and obviously policy scrutiny of
the utility division over the course of the past year, in addition to
the performance audit that was done by Coopers and Lybrand that was
presented to this board in the beginning of 1994. We had the
discussion and the analysis of the utility authority. We had a
discussion and analysis of potential privatization of the utility
division. We had a discussion that had -- what was the second
productivity review from the productivity committee in two years.
The leading dilemma and challenge for the Utility
Division was the lack of automation, and that was spelled out not only
in terms of some of my performance evaluations two years ago, in
addition to some managerial issues from two years ago that involved
the lack of automated process and automation in terms of billing
activity. We, several months ago, resolved that when the board
approved a settlement agreement with NCC Corporation that was our
software vendor. We are one month away from the completion of the
implementation of all of the modifications to that software that
brought us up to date and resolved our lawsuit against NCC.
I think that is evidenced by the one thing that has --
was particularly troubling to the board was that at that time two
years ago it took almost six months to calculate manually and go
through our process to reconcile the reimbursement of someone's
initial utility deposit on their account. Through the implementation
of modifications, that has been reduced down to six weeks. But I
would tell you that the target and the goal at the end of the
implementation period which is the end or beginning of August is 13
days. And through the most recent modification, that will also
include the calculation of interest that has accrued on that deposit
and is due the customer. And so we've gone from six months to six
weeks to what the goal of our department of revenue is going to be 13
days with interest, just to update you on the improvements that
McNees has seen through in conjunction with the work within the
department of revenue.
One of the final aspects as it pertained to the
automation is frankly -- and this is a coincidence on your agenda
today, which is the transfer of central cashiering into our central
billing and collections department. That will conclude the balance of
all of the findings and conclusions and the needs for improved
automation, the automation of work order and flow control, the
automation of the inventory control system, and the final modification
software as it pertains to billing activity.
The point being and, again, the commissioners are
encouraging me to -- to be a little more aggressive in sharing good
news was exactly what I said. I think that the 150 so odd people in
the utility division are in the midst at the conclusion of April of
having their finest year ever for the major performance and activity
measures that we're tracking, and I wanted to share that with you and
see to the extent that you had any questions. This is an information
item.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Dotrill, first of all, thank
you. I had the opportunity through one of my workdays and like three
tour guides were here in the room. I'm seeing all the utility
facilities and -- and getting a chance to ask some questions of the
board.
And one thing that stands out in my mind is that I was
informed that our entire utilities system is, in essence, 12 years
old. We haven't been in this very long, but the general bulk
equipment that we purchased has a life of maybe 20 years. And there's
some concern that the maintenance funds may not be available, whether
it be the board in the past hasn't allocated them or so forth. I
would like to -- to see a little concentration on the maintenance of
our existing equipment to increase its longevity to avoid a major
capital expense in about seven or eight years to see if we can
increase the life of that equipment. I know Mr. McNees and his folks
might have that information, but it's something in the upcoming budget
cycle I would like to see some information on, because I think it can
-- can save us dollars down the road, but something we need to take a
look at allocating. So in conjunction, what you've shown today,
that's one concern that stands out in my mind that I'd like to have
some information on, and I'd like that for all the board members if
possible.
MR. DORRILL: I'll ask him to give you an immediate
response, but my note is to be able to share what incremental element
of our rate is used and retired for a sinking fund for major capital
improvement, replacement, or modification.
MR. MCNEES: We'll be very, very happy to bring
proposals for increased or enhanced maintenance. As you -- as you
know -- as you just stated where that's one of our areas of concern
when we're in what we are in at this point, which is a budget cutting
mode in terms of the gross numbers that you've just seen, and so if
you want us to bring you what we can do for better maintenance, we'll
be absolutely thrilled to do that.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I would say for proper
maintenance. Better is always more expensive, but I'm looking for
proper. And that's, again you -- you adequately expressed my concern
when we -- when we had the tour and I -- I would just like some
information on that.
MR. DORRILL: Well, I think that's important because
increasingly those lift stations while they're not a -- a major --
they're representative of the type of capital investment that you
have, and at some point they're going to need to be either refurbished
or replaced and on a specific schedule. And I think we can show you
some of the information we're using to establish sinking funds for
that in our reserve for contingency.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris, you had
comments?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Dotrill, one of your slides
referenced numbers of -- numbers of meter installations for crew per
day, but I don't think I heard how that relates to the state-wide
average.
MR. DORRILL: I don't have that number, but I'm sure
that we either do or that we can get it. Again, I think it's
important to focus on communities that have a similar growth pattern.
There -- there was one year when we were down and that's, frankly, a
function of a decreased construction activity and the waiting list.
It's my understanding that it currently takes about two weeks in order
to get a meter set from the time that someone pulls the building
permit. That's one of the first things that goes in.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Also during your presentation you
mentioned or referenced several times the Coopers and Lybrand report.
Is it my understanding that you are acting on some of the
recommendations made in that report?
MR. DORRILL: We have and that was my rationale for
focusing on the major criticism, if you will, of me from two years ago
or the major challenge for the division, was the lack and problems
associated with the automated systems from process and inventory
control to billing and accounting. And that's why I wanted to give
you a quick update at the end as to where we were in the various
stages of final completion of all of that work.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: And recently and in the past also
we seem to have had some criticism of -- of having that report done
and then not acting on it, but you're telling us now that we are, in
fact, acting on that report?
MR. DORRILL: A wide range of activities, and if you
would like some further elaboration of that from the Coopers report of
January of 1994, we can do that.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. And the -- the other thing
is you had a list of -- of good news items here on the utilities
department. Do you also have a list of bad news items?
MR. DORRILL: Well, I think the one, frankly and
honestly, that we continued to work on, one that I was discussing with
the chairman yesterday was how to overcome your stated perceived
intimidation problems within the division. It's either going to be
through a number of revised policies as part of your personnel rules
and regulations.
Commissioner Hac'Kie touched on the concept of an office
of ombudsman. One that was recently discussed is to create a panel
amongst the elected employee advisory council members to focus and
evaluate because our -- our concern from management's perspective is
that the -- the rumor or anonymous letter of perceived intimidation
problems, not only in the utilities but other divisions, sort of are
taking their toll without a factual response. And we're trying to
find an objective employee-driven way of providing the preliminary
response as -- as part of a way of dispelling rumors or the anonymous
letters of intimidation or employee concerns. And that would be at
the top of my list of challenges that continue to be at the front of
the utility division.
MR. HCNEES: If I may, Commissioner, I'd like to add one
item to that, because I'd like to clarify something.
Mr. Dotrill showed you a graph that showed our zero
violation record, and that graph specifically related to contaminant
levels in our water system and that there has never been a violation
of any of the tested contaminants in our water system which is
something we're very proud of.
I will say in terms of problems areas, the only area
that I think our capital program has lagged in the last ten years or
so, as you know, has been our ability to deal with our wastewater
effluent. At our north wastewater plant, over the years there had
been a couple of overflows which, in real-life terms are very minor,
and their impact is very slight. They become technically violations
of our operating permits and -- and we have had a couple of those over
the years and are, in fact, negotiating hopefully the last consent
order we will ever have with the DEP given the improvements that
you've already approved up there. So if there's a bad news area, it's
one where we've been behind the eight ball probably for ten years, but
we're getting ahead of the eight ball finally on that one.
MR. DORRILL: We're so good though that while -- and
with all due respects to the City of Naples -- the City of Naples
primary effluent disposal site is Naples Bay. And on any given day,
they still pump five to seven million gallons of sewage, treated
sewage effluent into the Gordon River that flows into Naples Bay. By
comparison, our tense and effluent storage and percolation pond
capacity, if we spilled 20,000 gallons over the top of our berm into
the rim ditch that surrounds the north county plant, we can get a
notice of violation and a consent order that then we negotiate. But I
think that's a function of how well your system has grown and then how
sophisticated we are, at least when you compare us to the other major
utilities in the community.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. I share Commissioner
Hancock's comment knowing that our system is only 12 years old. Our
requirement to spend a lot of our funds on repairs and maintenance
with the new system is -- is not very great right now. But -- but I
share that concern that we may not be putting away adequate reserves.
Our $20 million positive figure in 1995 sounds good but if -- if we
need 22 million ten years from now we indeed have a problem.
MR. DORRILL: Very good point, frankly one that I had
not thought of, but we will have a response when -- when you see this
line item budget in about two weeks.
The only other thing I wanted to do was to get in a good
plug for the rank and file utility employee who's out there who may
either read or hear through the grapevine about our presentation to
you today. If you were at the recent Know Your County Government Day
Program, you can see the enthusiasm that these people have and bring
to work every single day of the year. And I -- while they -- they
read and they get discouraged about things that may be in the media or
perceived problems and morale issues within the utility division, the
vast majority of those people work very hard, are very professional,
are very stable and committed to running of what at least the State of
Florida feels is one of the highest compliance utilities systems in
the state. And I just want you to hear that from me that the rank and
file employee in this system that is not worried about the perception
issues or the, you know, the political issues or the business issues,
they work very hard for you every day, and I think we need to always
remind them of our appreciation for them.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We do appreciate them.
MR. DORRILL: Thank you.
Item #BE1
RESOLUTION 95-353, FORMALLY AMENDING THE COUNTY PURCHASING POLICY -
ADOPTED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. The next item on the
agenda is Item 8 -- 8-E (1), a recommendation to formally amend the
county purchasing policy.
Mr. Brinkley. I'm sorry. Mr. Camell.
MR. CARNELL: Give or take you, Steve.
For the record my name is Steve Camell, purchasing
director. My recommendation for you is to implement a new resolution
governing the county's purchasing practices. This is a follow-up to
an agenda presentation of February the 14th. I think we're pretty
consistent with the board discussion at that time.
Just to briefly recap what's happening here, we are
proposing to raise the formal competition limit to $15,000, the limits
for verbal quotations to $7500, and the noncompetition limit to $1000.
We are also per the previous board discussion, recommending that the
field purchaser limit remain at $500 at the present time.
The second area of discussion -- briefly if you remember
we had a discussion with the board regarding investigating the legal
possibilities of delegating more authority to your staff or for the
purpose of expediting and increasing the efficiency of our procurement
process as it relates particularly to construction projects. In a
nutshell -- and we can elaborate on this more should the board desire.
In a nutshell, I think in working with the county attorney's office
and researching the legal and policy aspects of this, the -- the
concept that we were looking at has several legal hindrances in the
way at the present time. There's not really clear cut yes or no you
can or can't do it. But there are several perspective ideas and
concepts and laws out there that might make it -- us vulnerable to
attack if we were to be sued in regard to a procurement or a purchase
in a large acquisition.
And for that reason, we've taken a little different tack
in terms of what's being recommended today. We are not going to
pursue that concept of the delegated authority but instead what we
found through some research with the State Department of
Transportation is that we have the ability to modify our
administrative provisions as they pertain to consultant selection.
And this is specifically for architects and engineers, the portion of
consultant selection that is governed by the state law and what we are
proposing to do is to add some additional categories of contracts that
will enable us to combine projects, solicit them simultaneously as a
group, and through that we'll be able to expedite over the life of
several of these projects, the procurement process. Because instead
of going through many procurements to attain -- or a single
procurement for each and every design contract we'll be able to
combine several projects into one contract. And the idea will be that
hopefully we'll add some considerable expediency to project times over
the course of the years ahead. Now, that's the thing that we are
proposing. We've established a couple new categories of contracts
that enable us to do that. With that, we've got some other editorial
changes that have been highlighted in your backup, and I'm here to
answer your questions.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Any questions? Commissioner
Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Camell, this is just a
reiteration of what we said back on February 14th; is that correct?
MR. CARNELL: That is --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Pretty much?
You originally brought this to us on February 14th,
which is Valentine's Day, and here we are on the fifty-first
anniversary of D-Day hearing it again. Is this issue only allowed to
be heard on special event days?
MR. CARNELL: We try to arrange it that way to maximize
and coordinate.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We'll have to avoid until
Christmas to make a decision then.
MR. OLLIFF: I think the 4th of July is a Tuesday if you
all want to come back for that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: No, I don't think so.
Commissioner Hancock.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I just noticed on the executive
summary you have verbal price quotations, 7500, but I didn't see it in
the resolution anywhere. Can you just give me a page reference?
MR. CARNELL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I was just trying to track that
down on how it was worded, but I didn't see it anywhere.
MR. CARNELL: The -- it's on Page 2, Commissioner,
paragraph -- Roman numeral IV, Paragraph A-2 towards the bottom of the
page. See number two? It says solicitation of quotes.
COHHISSIONER HANCOCK: Got you. Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve staff
recommendation.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: A motion and a couple of seconds.
Is there discussion?
I have one point and -- that I wanted to bring up and I
think one of the things that might have initiated this change in our
purchasing policy was my conversation with Mr. Dotrill, it must be six
or seven months now, in an effort to streamline the process of policy
decisions; i.e., RFP's, changes in the contract, awarding of the
contract, all of these various stops along the way that a project
comes back to this board to be addressed one more time where it's kind
of like a -- you hardly even get up here and we have a motion to
approve.
And I -- I had asked the manager about putting together
a listing or summarized sheet that we could be updated each and every
week or each month on major projects going on in the county, and then
we would only bring it up if there was a problem.
MR. DORRILL: This was -- this goes to two parts as part
of one of your first workshops together. And then I want to thank Mr.
Camell and his staff for having done some really fine work here from
a procurement perspective. And we're taking care of that today.
We're still working to convince the county attorney's
office as to what we call the concept of delegated project authority,
and I'll let Mr. Camell elaborate in terms of where we are and how
some of the legal issues have evolved, because we have not forgotten
about that. In fact, we think that it's a fine idea, but there are
some check and balances, if you will, that -- that are still hurdles
as part of what we're calling the concept of delegated project report.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, then what I'm hearing you
say then is the county attorney's having difficulty with this board
approving a project, approving the budget amendments, and then
directing staff to go and get it done and only tell us if it doesn't
go according to the guidelines we set up?
MR. DORRILL: I'll ask Mr. Camell to tell us what the
logistical issues are, because I think it's still a great idea. We
just need to see if we can get there from here.
MR. CARNELL: Well, let me say that I've spent quite a
bit of time with the County Attorney's office and I believe your
attorney's office has done a very thorough job of reviewing this
issue. It's not an easy one to resolve when you look at the statutes
and you look at the case law, and there's a lack of direction in both
areas especially in the case law. But I think what -- what it comes
down to -- and Mr. Cuyler can fill in where he feels appropriate, but
what we're dealing with right now is that there is a distinction
between what's referred to as governmental and administerial duties in
the Florida constitution and the statutes that fall out of it. And
Governmental duties are basically performed by elected officials such
as this board. Administerial duties are performed by the county
manager or his staff. And there is within that, I'll call it
conflicting directions, as to what this board can delegate and cannot.
And what we have found in looking, I think, in the case law and also
in some Attorney General opinions, which tend to be very conservative
as a rule anyway, is that there are grave concerns and hesitations
with regard to the ability of the board to delegate award of contract.
Now, if you think about that in simple terms, it doesn't
totally make sense because if -- if you went and just took that
literally and said, gee, the board can't delegate authority to award
contracts, then I have you all approving every $100 purchase we make.
So there's got to be some middle ground out there. And I think that
what we find is in -- in terms of experience is that there are --
there are delegations, but they're basically taking place within bid
limits and threshholds such as the thresholds that you all are
prepared to approve today here.
And what I showed you, if you remember, in February with
that survey information of other counties and their bid limits and
their delegations of authority, that generally you're working in those
kinds of numbers; 10, 20, $30,000, 50,000 in some cases up to a
hundred is the highest I can find. But there's no clear direction in
the law. And I think what the attorney's office is concerned about is
that if we get into a highly competitive multimillion dollar
construction contract for a major project where there's enough at
stake for people to contest the award and contest it beyond just
appearing before this board and taking it to court, that a good sharp
attorney will attempt to bring into challenge the propriety and
legality of our whole process, meaning a delegated award by a staff
member. And that we don't feel that we have strong enough footing or
ground to stand on to say that that could -- that we could survive or
prevail in court. Now, that's not to say there are no arguments but
it's just -- it's very unclear and, again, I'll let Mr. Cuyler fill in
here, but I believe that it's fair to say that there's a -- some
pretty good laws and interpretation of the law that would argue that
too much delegation is improper.
MR. CUYLER: I think we ought to send Mr. Camell to law
school because --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think he's already been.
MR. CUYLER: -- that's basically a very good
description. And we understand the necessity of the business side,
and we try to work with staff as best we can, but ultimately we have
to advise you and advise staff on what we think you can defend, and
we've just had some concerns about the extent to which some of the
original proposals went. I think we've tried to go as far as we can
on the materials that are in front of you, and we will continue to
look at it, but Steve needed to get back to you and give you some
answers, and that's what today is all about.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Too much delegation is bad, huh?
MR. CARNELL: Well, keep in mind what we are proposing.
I think we're achieving part of what you're after, Madam Chairman,
because the utilization -- modification of the professional service
contracts, you know, it may not mean a whole lot to the five of you.
You're just from a distance, but this is a Godsend for me in terms of
being able to now have on policy and on record the ability to combine
projects that we solicit. You know, we've had kind of an ongoing
fluctuation back and forth in terms of what was legal and what wasn't.
And now we feel like we've done our research to validate the ability
to do that. And I think we're going to achieve some of what you're
after, because you're going to have several projects being processed
at once instead of onezee, twozee, onezee twozee.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'll think I'll individually,
since this is something I'm really interested in, follow-up on it.
MR. DORRILL: You and I know Ms. Mac'Kie has also talked
to me about is why are you -- why are you guys always coming back here
asking us for this incremental authority, as she has called it. And
We understand that. We're frustrated by that. It does require all
kinds of additional paperwork and stops and goes and stops and goes,
but we have not forgotten about your direction. We're working very
well with Mr. Cuyler's staff to try and accomplish that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, even if there's a way that
Mr. Cuyler might see that we need to make -- to ask the legislature to
make some white -- some minute changes that might allow us to delegate
more of that with proper constraints. I mean nobody wants to just
say, here, you go do it, and don't ever talk to me again about it.
But, you know, if we need to do that, certainly we've got the ability
with the representatives and the representatives available to us to
try to do that as well.
MR. CUYLER: And you have at least one representative
who understands the problem that you're facing, because you ought to
know.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEW: That's true.
MR. CUYLER: If you would like, we'd be happy to prepare
a memorandum for you for your review during the vacation period or
whatever.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I appreciate that.
We have a motion and a second. Is there further
discussion?
All in favor please say aye.
Motion passes 5 to 0.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just one other comment in
conjunction with what you were saying, Ken, about preparing a
memorandum. Do you have in mind to make recommendations about if what
we want is too far under the present law, then you'll make a
recommendation to us about here's how far I think you can go?
MR. CUYLER: I think this probably is the recommendation
for the time being and it's also a -- like most of your decisions. As
a client you have a risk business analysis that you need to go through
and the day you want to, you know, step a little more towards the risk
side or whatever, perhaps we could tell you how best to do that. But
in our memo we'll lay it out and then after that if you'd like to
discuss it with us maybe that would be a good time to do that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you. We're
approaching the noon hour. I'm going to break for lunch. We will
reconvene -- I believe it's published at 1:307
Do you have a quick item you want to --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I was just going to say that
the pier, I think, is going to go real quick but what about --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, we're going to have to
change out court reporters anyway, because this young lady needs to
leave at noon.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. How about if we come back
as soon as possible and try to finish up. I really need to leave
around three o'clock.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. I think we probably will
be finished by then. But, yes, we'll return -- I would think our
lunch will at least be an hour and we'll try to return somewhere
between 1:15 and 1:30 then.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay? Lunch.
The proceedings recessed at 12:00 p.m.)
The Board of County Commissioners reconvened at 12:15
p.m. in open session in the Board of County Commissioner's conference
room with the Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board, with the following
members present:
CHAIRPERSON:
VICE-CHAIRMAN:
Bettye J. Hatthews
John C. Norris
Timothy J. Constantine
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
Timothy L. Hancock
ALSO PRESENT: Ramiro Hanalich, Assistant County Attorney
HISPANIC AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD:
Ana Rodriguez
Frank Rodriguez
Pedro Sevacha
Neil Hotales
Yolanda Dustin
Angel Gutierrez
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm going to call this to order.
For the benefit of the court reporter, let's go around the room with
introductions, starting with Commissioner Norris and moving around the
table.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: John Norris, District 1.
MS. DUSTIN: Yolanda Dustin.
MR. MORALES: Neil Morales. I am on the board.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Pam Hac'Kie, member of a board.
MR. SEVACHA: Pedro Sevacha (phonetic).
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Do you want to spell your last
name for the court reporter? MR. SEVACHA: No.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: No? Well, she is going to do
the best she can.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Frank Rodriguez.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: Ana Rodriguez.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm Tim Constantine.
MR. GUTIERREZ: Angel Gutierrez, Hispanic board.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Tim Hancock, Commissioner from
District 2.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Bettye Matthews, District 5.
MR. HANALICH: Ramiro Hanalich, assistant county
attorney and liaison to the Hispanic board.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. We can get started. The
purpose for this meeting is as a result of our January workshop and
our review of advisory boards. There was a suggestion at that time --
in fact, there was a directive at that time that the board asked me to
contact the Black Advisory Board and the Hispanic Advisory Board to
try to determine why there was an appearance of forum problems in
getting your boards together and coming up with meeting agendas and
products of your meetings. In response to that letter that was made
to Ms. Rodriguez as well as Mr. Tribbel, it was indicated that part of
the problem was a lack of direction when you were created. The boards
were created three years ago, three and a half years ago, whatever it
was, and there was no clear direction given to you at that time, and
it has not up until this time. So the suggestion was that we meet for
a working lunch and see if we could discuss the issues and help
prioritize what we thought would be productive work.
And that is where we are. So, Ana, why don't you start
us off by telling what you've been doing, what you would like to get
done and then we can join in the discussion.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: What we have been doing is -- we have
decided, and the board in the last meeting decided, to put aside the
Human Rights Commission. And, yes, we do support the concept that we
are not in the position at this time to spend more hours in the
creation of this proposal and to look into the needs of the Hispanic
community because we want to be more in touch with the community. We
want to learn more about what is really happening out in the
community. I felt -- the board felt that we could expend more than
enough hours and time in this proposal. We kind of left our main
purpose, which was to go into the community and find more information
and to be more aware of where were the needs of the community. So the
board in our last meeting we took a vote and decided to come back into
what we were created for, to promote more communications within the
community and the county.
One of the things that we started by doing, and it is
going to be bought up in the afternoon meeting, was to sponsor a forum
-- cosponsor a forum in reference to the Cuban-American crisis that
is happening here with the different cultures. We have Cubans,
Salvadorans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Guatemalans, so many things.
They're throughout Naples Manor, Immokalee. Everglades City is
starting to have a community of Hispanic. North Naples is growing
with Hispanic. Golden Gate -- it's a growing culture everywhere.
one of the things that we decided was that we wanted to bring this
board into the community, not to put the boards or Hispanic board in
the position to make a resolution about the Cuban crisis or to take
action. It is completely out of our jurisdiction. But we want to
bring information to the community and educate within the communities
of Collier County about what is really happening with this crisis and
how Collier County is going to be affected.
What are the true numbers? All you hear is rumors that
there is 4,000, 5,000, 3,000 people coming in, and they are just
rumors that are coming back and forth. So what we want with this
forum is we want to bring the true people that are really involved in
this situation. We were in the process of bringing members of the
Cuban-American Foundation from Hiami and Collier County. We want to
bring member representatives from immigration, and we will have a
representative from the Hiami Herald in Hiami, and this representative
I felt that it was very important to bring him because he is there.
So he sees the views and the extremes that there is. He can tell us
what is happening or how they are doing or how they're reacting about
this problem. So it's good to have coverage also on the other side.
The intention of the Hispanic board is mostly to bring
information through us to the community about what is really happening
out in the community, the Cuban-American community, to educate, to
prepare us, probably, as to how this can be effective, through
employment, education, through so many things that we have that are
new and can turn around for people just coming and how to prepare
ourselves and, you know, how to really get the input. So we kind of
felt that this was one of our first steps where we could start
communicating more with the community and bringing also to the
community of Collier County some type of information about Hispanic
issues so that we -- the community would feel that we were not here to
just gather the input of the Hispanic community. We are created to
seek communications and interest, but we are also trying to promote
and educate both communities and integrate and work together as a
community as a whole. We want to see the Hispanic community not to be
a group -- to work as a group. We want the Hispanic community to be
part of this community, to become some type of an asset to the best
interest of Collier County. So this is what the board at this time is
promoting.
The other thing that we are promoting, I was just told
by Mr. Gutierrez, is about the Hispanic hotline. The county provided
us with a number, a telephone number. We have created a Hispanic
hotline. We are in the process of advertising this hotline; press
releases will be going out. And it's to serve the Hispanic community
information and referrals into different programs or information about
the Chamber of Commerce or housing or employment or any type of
information that we can provide to people that are in need, that don't
know where they have to go in case of a problem. We can refer them to
either a professional advisor or different ways that we can kind of
approach them and at the same time obtain data as to what are the
needs of those people that are calling.
One of the things this Hispanic hotline can do is that
we are going to provide the Board of County Commissioners with
quarterly reports as to how many calls were received, what kind of
calls. We're going to report to the county with the names and
telephone numbers and addresses of the people that called and what
were their concerns and what were our referrals -- how we work this
referral information. So we have very strong, high hopes about this
Hispanic hotline. We just had our first telephone call about someone
wanting to find out how to get a license to sell watermelons.
It is something that I feel that in Collier County
there is a need for them to come and to sometimes speak their own
language because a lot of them don't speak English. So this is
something that is going to serve as a type of a communications between
the county and the community. These are things at this time we are
working on, and it is something that I hope that the board stays
working on. I know that it's going to be a success. This is what we
are doing right now.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: You mentioned two things that I
support. The first is moving on from the Human Rights Commission.
The issue should be -- and the Black Affairs Advisory Board couldn't
identify with that. That seemed to be the only product or the only
media product. And when it didn't work, a lot of them were frustrated
when they left at that time. And I think we don't have any advisory
committee that tends to operate on one front only, without three or
four main topics. So I think that is a real positive step.
The other thing I like is, I mentioned to you at the
last civil rights or human rights forum -- is that civil rights? That
was an eye-opening experience. It was actually enjoyable to attend.
There were people talking who had been pointing fingers for months and
all of a sudden they are talking and becoming a part of each other's
discussion and thoughts. And I liked that. Those are the two
positives.
I'd like to share something recent that I also shared
with the Black Affairs Advisory Board. My experience growing up in
the Tampa area was that we had a very strong community, particularly
in the Hispanic community. The area was settled by Cubans and it
became a part of the city celebration of life in the community. I
challenged the Black Affairs Advisory Board, and I challenge you also
to help us find a way to integrate the Hispanic community by way of
celebration. I think there are a lot things that could be promoted
with some imagination. Are they aware of the contributions and
influence of the Hispanics of Collier County? So by celebrating the
community, I think it is something I like and, frankly, I would love
for you to help us find out how.
And just as you mentioned, I think, is to continue to
act as a liaison in that sense. The feelings of the community to be
funneled through you to the county government is probably the primary
reason why this board was requested and why it exists. I think that
is the most important function you can fulfill for us. In a nutshell,
that is the approach that we would like to see, for you to act as a
liaison between the board and members of the community.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Several thoughts. One of
the things about human nature regardless of your ethnic background is
that people tend to fear what they don't know, what they don't
understand. I think your suggestion of the forum is a strong approach
to start helping you communicate. I think communication is a logical
first step, and people don't understand that there is a natural
separation that is hard to comprehend. You commented on the issues
and some of the goings on, and as you said, separate the fact from
rumor. I think that fits the whole one.
The other thing that I heard that I like a lot was --
I'm paraphrasing -- that while maintaining your identify you want to
do that as part of the whole of the community. There where two ways to
approach it. One is divisive, and we want to chisel out our own
corner, but it is much more beneficial when we take your community as
part of the whole. And that's very encouraging.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Ms. Rodriguez, you were talking
about two items; having this forum and also having the hotline,
establishing the hotline. Did I understand you correctly that this
would be done as a board, the advisory board?
MS. RODRIGUEZ: The forum is going to be -- the
Hispanic board will become cosponsors. We felt in order to be more
productive was to be out in the community as the Hispanic board is
doing this I approached the Latin-American Business and Professional
Association, and I explained to them about this forum and what our
intentions were. And we have their support and they are willing to
cosponsor this event with the Hispanic board.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. That's great. It is a
very minor point. I think both of those programs are excellent ideas,
the minor point being that it is not in the scope of the powers to be
within this board to actually do these things. The suggestion is
fine, but I think, technically under the law, you are going to need to
have some other organization to be the official sponsor. It is a very
minor point.
MS. DUSTIN: We brought this up with Mr. Manalich as
our liaison. That was the first thing that we immediately asked for
was the legal --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I am more than happy to
give Mr. Manalich legal advice. The other thing is I -- picking up on
the points of Commissioner Constantine, I think it is very important
that the Hispanic community keep its identity and its pride, as one's
identify is very important. There's a line, however, between pride
and identity and isolation and the refusal to assimilate into the
community is not what you said. You said that your intent is to have
the assimilation into the community. I think one of the biggest
concerns has always been the Hispanic community would take a similar
approach as they have done over in Miami, which I think is a
tremendous shame. You can't go to a Miami airport unless you speak
Spanish anymore; you can't get along. Nobody will speak English to
you. That is just not the way it should be.
So I'm very encouraged to hear you say that your intent
is just the opposite, to make sure that there is actually no boundary
of community, and it seems to be working that way in Collier. You
mentioned that you have a scattering all over, a wide representation
-- that seems to be a better phrase -- all over the county. That is
absolutely encouraging that it is working out that way. So I'm very
encouraged by what I hear today. I think it is very positive. MS. DUSTIN: You speak Spanish.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: He couldn't talk to his wife if
he didn't.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Lucky for me.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd just like to hear more. I
think that is helpful. Ana, you don't plan to stay on the board?
MS. RODRIGUEZ: I'm not staying on the board. I am in
a lot of things. I have offered this board three years, and my
husband, once he is elected, will take over. But I will keep working
and keep supporting this board and keep doing what I was doing behind
the scenes. I'll be here always. I mean, I've been with this board
almost four years already since 1991. I have attended every single
meeting, even when I wasn't a member. It is very, very hard to
completely go and forget about it. So I am very committed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think you bring such a
positive approach. I know you are not the only one in the room to do
that, but I just wanted to thank you for a wonderful job.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I've got two comments to make.
First is a draft resolution for the Cuban-American celebration. We
did find it necessary to make a couple -- I don't want to say minor
changes. They were really significant changes. There what a clause
in it asking Collier County to support the resistance of another
foreign government. I don't think that is our place to do that, so we
did send it to our attorney's office and he reworded that. But we do
support your ideas and ideals. We are not going to support the
overthrow of the government. So that came out. MS. RODRIGUEZ: Of course not.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I just want to let you know that
we did address that comment so that we will not get in trouble in
Washington D.C. by having caused a third world war.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: We don't want to be in that position of
making any type of --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The other thing that I'd like to
do is pick up on Commissioner Hancock's concept of celebrating the
ethnicity of our diversity. I know in Immokalee I go to Cinco de Mayo
each year, and it's a lovely festival. I know it is for Mexicans as
opposed to being Guatemalan or Cuban or anything like that, but when I
am out there, I sure see a lot of Cubans and Guatemalans and Mexicans.
And that may be a good focal point to begin to celebrate the diversity
that we are and maybe pickup on other celebrations in the other
Hispanic countries and again to talk about those. Most Americans, at
least most the people in Collier County, understand Cinco de Mayo and
what it is and enjoy it as well. So that provides a nice focal point
to begin with to get you interested in it.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: One thing is not only am I the
chairperson here, I'm also the president-elect for next year for the
Latin-American Business Association. Every year since our inception
-- this is our fourth year -- we have created, and we celebrated
Hispanic heritage month in October. And what we do is that we hold a
banquet and this banquet -- all the funds are to promote scholarships
for Hispanics. This year we awarded more than $4,200 in scholarships.
And it is not only for one year. We grant scholarships and their
renewal up to four years.
One thing that we do at this banquet is that we try to
have a performance and dance where we are bringing folkloric groups
from different countries. We had them over from Mexico for a few
years; last year we had Spain. We had a Flamenco group that were
professionals, and this year we are having a Brazilian carnival. They
are the Brazilian carnival that performed for President Clinton that
will be performing for us. Ford Motor Company will be sponsoring. So
what we are trying to do with this -- and this is great for the board
-- what we are trying to promote the culture and the different ethnic
groups that are here in Collier County.
We're committed not only to promote scholarships for
our young kids when they come out of school and want to go on to
higher education and become another attorney or medical or
commissioner, you know, but also the Latin culture. I think the first
time we had only 86 in attendance and last year we had close to 250.
This year we are expecting close to 400 in attendance. So that is a
way that we celebrate this through the association of our Hispanic
heritage to the commission and ask to commemorate by designating a
week to celebrate our Hispanic heritage culture.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I don't mean to dwell on that
too long. I don't know if we want to celebrate a murderous pirate in
Collier County. But just as you have a celebration at a certain time
each year that is consistent, maybe we can get a thread of commonality
from year to year of at least one type of event that the
Latin-American Business Association -- make a request for Category C
funds --
(Laughter)
MS. RODRIGUEZ: At this time what we are planning is to
bring all the performers that have already performed for the
association and create a Hispanic folkloric festival in Collier
County, and we're going to have some performers from Lee County. So,
anyway, our plans are very positive and can be integrated into Collier
County.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there other members of the
Hispanic board that have comments or input? So far we're hearing from
only Ana.
Guess not.
MS. DUSTIN: Regarding the celebration that Ana has
been talking about, we go back to history. You remember that we
celebrate the discovery of the New World before the colonization of
the United States. Actually, we also have communities of Hispanic
celebrations that is involved in this celebration of discovery in
history of this continent. You know, that is the October celebration.
That is the October celebration in the technology and the day of the
people, too. But, basically, it is the discovery of this continent
that is why we celebrate.
I just wanted to bring to your attention -- and we are
here talking as to what we are doing as a board. What I am interested
in here was to know eventually from you is to get an expression of
what kind of direction you want from us. We are an advisory capacity
to you. But in three years it is my understanding we were not
requested with any words or comments. Other than your meeting, you're
not hearing -- we need input from the commission.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just want to say about that
that is a real important fundamental clarification that we need. From
my perspective -- and I am new to the board, but I get just the
opposite impression. My impression is that you're the advisory board
to tell, give us advice. Please tell us what we need to know. You
tell us bunch of Anglos that are ignorant of what the Hispanic
community needs, to inform us of what we should be doing, instead of
us saying we want this from you and we want this from you. So my
perspective is that you are going to give us information flowing from
the opposite direction.
MS. DUSTIN: Yes. You are talking about communication
from us or the Latin community about communications with the board of
commissioners about the community of Cubans that were coming. I
understand one of you was very concerned about when they were coming,
how many. One of the issues that perhaps is helpful would have been
some communication with this board in some -- I don't know what
capacity, but perhaps at that point there should have been some
communication what you want from us. This is what I am talking about.
We need to establish some standards to communicate from you what you
want from us and what direction you want us to go.
We had a lot of concerns. When we were working on the
human rights projects, some of us worked apparently -- I have tons of
data regarding education. I know what other problems that we face in
dealing with other minorities in Collier County. And we have had a
tremendous advantage with the public school system. So for the
Hispanic minorities in general-- so we would like to see the same type
of what we have had with the public school system to happen in the
commission. We just don't know how to go about it. This is a bigger
region for us to get into. We have done it with the school system.
We need help from you, communications from you to tell us, to help us.
We are supposed to work together, and we like to work together.
You're the big guys, and you need to tell us.
We are happy to point you with our teachers. This is
what we need to do to solve this. This is what we need to address.
One of the positions of the community concerns housing, and we need to
address that problem. I don't know what can be done. I don't know
what solutions. Certainly we have a problem and we need to find out
what we are going to do. Then we have the health problem. You know,
through the changes in the federal government, there are going to be a
certain membership class in the county is going to be affected by the
loss of benefits. It is a problem of the services not just for
minorities but for the older section of the community who can not
afford health care. We are concerned how the Hispanic community is
going to be affected at the local level in what health care provides.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: One thing is, and you have been
here longer than me -- would it be an appropriate public communication
for the board to ask to be put on the agenda for, you know, to direct
your attention to this issue, and sort of like treat it like a public
petition -- whether to have it like a public petition, but simply have
it as a status that is more specific than that? Like one of the
things that I would wish would come out of this board would be some
attention-getting, a wake-up call to the county commission of the
housing needs in Collier County. Because when we get those petitions
in front of the developers who what to make money, if what we had was
a public interest group saying you have a need to wake up, what are
you doing. You need to make some proposals.
We are already talking about very low-income housing
and what we ought to be doing about it in Collier County. But I would
think we need to recognize the problem to the issue and have some
information specific to it and call Neil Dotrill and say we have some
information and we want to share with the board, the advisory board.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: The human issues, for example, put it
under you, on our Board of County Commissioners instead of your
advisory board.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Same place that this could go.
Maybe that is an information sharing and what is the procedure for you
to tell us, here is a problem, we would like you to advise us.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: By the same token, we had a
similar discussion with the Black Affairs Advisory Board. There needs
also to be a recognition as to what falls under the powers of the
Board of County Commissioners. It is not within our power to solve
the federal problem of health care or the state problem of health
care. So as much as this issue needs to be addressed, when you look
at it closely, there is an empowerment decision that needs to be made.
And it is not within the power of the Board of County Commissioners to
handle certain issues, that we are not empowered to handle certain
items. That needs to be recognized too.
MS. DUSTIN: We also recognize that there is a level of
control that goes beyond that point that there is available to you at
an administrative level as a County Commission that is going to be
involved in housing to a point. And then you say you have no
jurisdiction because this is a federal problem. But certainly it is a
problem in the county, and you must address this problem. So you're
not going to do anything about that?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, that is not what I am
saying.
MS. DUSTIN: No. I'm not saying that you -- I'm just
saying that we need to address the problem. We need to find out what
you are going to do for us, whether it is you or I -- what you are
going to do for us. We need to address the problem.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think that is fine. That is
exactly what we can address.
MR. GUTIERREZ: One of the things that we were
addressing are the issues in the community, and I still have copies of
the reports that were put together. I was in charge of law
enforcement and so I got a lot of information on the housing in
Immokalee. And one of the issues brought up was the terrible housing
conditions in Immokalee. One of our concerns was how much they rent
for, $270 a week for a trailer. I have seen even a small shack for
$1,000 a month. I mean it's terrible. The living conditions are so
terrible. You can see 10, 12, 15, people in the trailer, children
sleeping on the floor. It's terrible. It is not a healthy
environment. That needs to be investigated. But we decided to hold
it, because we didn't want to open a can of worms.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Every time we approve another
housing project in Immokalee environment I tell myself good, we have
200 units going up and can get rid of the shacks. But I never see the
shacks come down. Every time I go out there the shacks are still
there and never get torn down. Once we get into the migrant cycle in
the fall, and they come back, they are occupied, and you can't tear
them down.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Evidently, we're not building at
a rate in Immokalee that matches the needs.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Oh, no. Never.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We need to readdress our
development standards so that we can be more sensitive of the needs
and target a specific area and see what we can do.
MS. DUSTIN: That would be helpful. We recognize in
Collier County as to the existence of illegal immigration.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We are not going to sit here and
talk about that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're not going to resolve that
problem.
MS. DUSTIN: No. The problem is housing. How can the
county help us with affordable housing in Immokalee. One of the
requirements is that people have to have valid identification, so that
the other places remain occupied by a portion of the illegal
immigration we are dealing with. We don't know what to do about that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That is the way the housing has
been for the three and a half years. Every time we approve another
development of several hundred dwelling units, that we should see that
something is done about the shacks and at least eliminate that as a
housing option. We don't see anything happening.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That could be involving a sweep
program. There is an obvious cycle that those units are built for
about five to seven months out of the year. The units are not just
approved, they have to be constructed. It may be the next off-season
for this time to get a code enforcement sweep of those areas that are
not just placing roofs over their heads -- this is an emotional part.
That is what is the problem, is code enforcement necessary. Yes, it
is unsafe. Is a park bench any better? The answer is sometimes, yes,
but many times, no. So I think that can be embodied in a joint effort
in off-season.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Correct, we haven't done
that since '92.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: A sweep there? It has been at
least that long. We're not finished yet. And I know when Richard was
still here and heading code enforcement, every time I would go out and
cut a ribbon for a new project, I'd walk over and say now is the time,
and he would say, yes, MA'am. But they are still there. And I know
that we have had staffing problems and so forth to find the people to
physically go and do it. MAybe we have legal problems of going onto
somebody's property to tear it down. There may be some problems.
Here is the attorney. (Indicating Mr. MAnalich)
MS. RODRIGUEZ: I found some houses with no windows.
The floors are falling apart. There are holes in the wall where the
window is supposed to be is boarded. So there are children, in case
of a fire, they are all going to die, because they have no way to get
out of there in case of a fire.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And that's where our efforts
should be too. When I was on the code enforcement board, that is what
we did, we condemned them and tore them down.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Perhaps we need to give
direction to the code enforcement group that we can sit down and tell
them what we want. Perhaps we need to do that before October. We
need to do that before the seasonal people come back.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: Right now if you go to Immokalee, I
would say that more than 70 percent of those ones that need to be
addressed are empty. What is happening is that there are no windows
or anything, so the crack addicts or the prostitutes are using them to
do whatever. So there are negatives. There is a lot of things. I
know, because one of the things that I deal with is, you know, I go
home -- is that I volunteer time with the sheriff's office, and I
arrive in Immokalee about four in the morning until 2:30 in the
evening to serve as a translator, and I have been doing that for three
years. I mean I have heard a lot. I have gone to places that I never
thought were in Immokalee, and I have big concerns about the way that
they are living, especially when there are children involved. My
heart goes out to them when there are small children, and their lives
are really important in case of a fire or anything. Anything can
happen to them.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Houses can cave in on them.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Some are held up with loose
boards.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We can put this as an agenda
item with directions to staff, to code enforcement of the sweep of
Immokalee. I think that is something we can easily do.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It's either on that or do we
have anything else from the other members?
MR. MORALES: I just want to say that it is a pleasure
to be here. I'm pretty much the new guy so I can't really jump in and
say what is exactly on my mind.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: With that comment, you are
invited back.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Rodriguez, do you have
something to say at this time?
MR. SEVACHA: I told Mr. Rodriguez and Mr. Morales that
we, this board look at the big help with our people, because we don't
have any center in which all the complaints or all the situations, do
you know, will be here and try to solve the problems. I believe the
whole line to be increased with some personnel would be good, do you
know, for the county, not just for the Hispanics but for all the
minorities of the county. It's my opinion, do you know, I have been
involved in Maryland for many years. I have been in the Hispanic
community of Maryland and a member of the Commission of Hispanic
Affairs and the Commission of -- we have offices in Illinois, Hawaii
and New York. We have satellite offices in Boston.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What was that name again?
MR. SEVACHA: The Maryland Hispanic Community.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Maryland?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The State of Maryland.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The State of Maryland. They have
had them in Montgomery County and Prince Georges County and satellite
offices in Baltimore. That is where I grew up.
MR. SEVACHA: No, I speak very strong. People not
understand sometime. It's my fault. It is true. I believe it is the
commissioner for the county, you know, this board, to create some
office, do you know, in which we can organize, you know, all the
complaints of the community, all the businesses in the community. I
believe Mrs. Rodriguez would be good for that office. The office
would be fine. Commissioners, I don't know how you are thinking about
that.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let's call it a Human Rights
Commission. You may not know of the history of the proposal of the
Human Rights Commission, and I'll try to put it into a nutshell for
you. But the proposal given to the board was quite extensive and
quite broad, quite expensive. It has not been approved on either
venues. So even though we have entertained discussions of a
scaled-down situation, that was what Mrs. Rodriguez referred to when
she said we needed to get past that particular discussion and move on
to other community issues, because that one in itself did not pan out.
So looking back, I don't think it has been tabled forever. I think
it will come back.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Maybe I'm operating under a
mistaken perception, but I thought it was the job of the advisory
committee to bring these complaints and the nature of the complaints
and concerns forward to the counsel; is that not correct? MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: It would seem to me that this
body is the appropriate forum for the type of complaints to get
transported onto the county commission. And if there is a pattern of
complaints in the Hispanic community that shows that there is an area
-- obviously you're not going to find some of them, an individual
complaint, that it may be the only one of its nature, but if there is
a pattern of concerns out there, isn't it your job to bring it to us?
MS. RODRIGUEZ: Yes. And that is one thing we are
going to do with the Hispanic hotline, that we're going to get more
feedback from the community. And also it might be good to pick up
someone in the public affairs office who is bilingual to be here as
someone in the county to serve on it. I walk into the county -- talk
to anyone, the reception, that lady in reception, wonderful lady. She
was talking to someone once, and they said, lady, can you please
translate or help me with this problem? You have a lot of people.
And when they are looking for a license tag agency or something, the
first place they come is to this building. So they're going to see
someone sitting there, and a lot of them don't speak English. MS. DUSTIN: She sends them to me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I remember seeing a list of the
employees and their languages.
MS. DUSTIN: It is a directory.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And how is that information?
MS. DUSTIN: It doesn't seem to work.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: It looks like we've got one item
on the agenda to work on already.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It sounds like we have one item
you all can work on. Find out why that is not working and what we can
do about that.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: We need to do that. The Hispanic
community is increasing so much it is incredible. I mean, now going
to Immokalee before you had Mexicans and Guatemalans. Now I'm seeing
a great deal of people from E1 Salvador and from Honduras. And then
I'm thinking that a lot of the people who are coming into these fields
don't speak Spanish. They speak their dialects which is another
different language. For me to understand what they are saying, I have
to ask them to speak real slow and then I have to pick words out.
It's not really -- there is real increase in another language, even
though we're Hispanic but the dialect is difficult.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We are having an increase in the
fields as well.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: So it is growing a lot more. There is a
lot of diversity in Collier County and throughout the United States.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Frank had something to say. I
know you are not a member of the board but --
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I would like to bring some input to
this table that you are talking about. Regarding the board, we are
very much alarmed when the comments started going around merging the
Hispanic boards with the other board. There is a basic reason for
this. There are basic and underlying different needs and problems
with the Latin-American community as compared to the other
communities.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That was never a board
direction. That was a comment that a writer picked up and
experimented on without the board giving a specific direction, that
was why. The board never took that position.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Well, that was one of the things that
put all of us on alert, and, actually, I wrote something about that.
Anyway, there are basic differences from the two communities, not a
different way but such in a respective manner to each one that I think
the idea of the hotline -- I think that is an excellent first step to
start gathering information from the community. I agree with
Commissioner Norris. The board should only be a vehicle through which
complaints or needs or whatever comes to you; however, that hasn't
happened. The only think that took place was that the HRC. Has it's
own plus or minuses, but no other complaints or anything came through
this board basically because of the lack of identification of the
community. One of this things which is critical is that the people
that this board should be getting in touch with, most of them don't
speak English. I believe the board needs an open line of
communication with the Hispanic community and that is why the hotline
has been established.
It is mandatory for the Hispanic board to keep open
those lines so that these people can feel that they have been listened
to when they come to the meetings and bring their problems, comments,
needs, and suggestions to get them to listen. Probably the ordinance
is too tight as far as how the board itself may direct itself to
getting in touch with the community and how that may happen. Like we
are talking about this forum and there might be an issue with being on
this board, an advisory board to the County Commission, not how is
this going to be provided. The commission is good. I think it is an
excellent idea, and we agree on that. But then the basic principle of
the legal issues may not work.
If this board is going to bring you information and
educate the community out there, how is the board legally within the
scope of the ordinance going to do that? We need to work together on
that. As I say, I am not a member of the board. I hope to be one. I
am looking at the Latin community in getting in touch with the
community, that is how I see these boards. There is good intentions.
But like something that he said, (Indicating to Mr. Sevacha) we need
to do something about that and work together on that. We need to all
pull together and come together and that makes sense for everyone.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Surely people speak Spanish in
the meetings of this board if they need to.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: No, we translate. We carry the
meetings in English, but then if there is a member of the public -- we
do translate to the public, and they will speak to us in Spanish and
then we will translate it into English.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So really there is no way to
collect the information you need to share with us if you have some
rule that you only speak English. And the other thing is, help me to
understand something about this, I'm looking at that language problem.
You need to find ways to insure open communications. It seems to me
that if they have to speak English there's something -- that is
another thing if you feel this is limiting you in some way, then we
need to propose changes.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: If we have a situation like it took
place in Naples with tenants that were abused by the landlords taking
away their deposits, and the landlords just laugh at them. What
prevents that? What resources are there? What influence does this
government provide to protect these consumers?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think that is a question Mr.
Norris said, is that when we see problems that has a common thread
like that, those are the things we need to know about so we can
address it.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Okay. Then the boards -- this Hispanic
board -- that issue has come before the Hispanic board, before the
commission and we can't do anything with it. That is why the
commission '-
MS. DUSTIN: It was told to the code enforcement.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: The perception of the community of the
people with the problem is that they come to the board with their
problems and that the board may be not interested at that time, but
they want to say something, see some communications come together to
do something and do whatever and then something happens. Then there
isn't a wrong message sent out to the community as to where the source
of solutions are. This is where the board can help.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Rodriguez, that was not a
very good example to make your point with, because I don't know what
in the world the group would do if somebody didn't give a tenter back
his money. That is not our job. That is the not the group -- the
commission's domain at all. You have got civil courts and the
sheriff's office and the criminal courts, not the county commission.
I understand your point.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: We don't have a consumer protection or
advisory --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We build parks and libraries.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: -- consumer's affairs office --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Frank, this is similar to
something that is a negative idea, nothing personal. Victor Valdez
(phonetic) came to us with problems with the sheriff's office, police
brutality and expected us to do something about that, if we could look
into that. Every significant complaint that goes out there -- other
communities may do that, but with the sheriff -- this is a civil
matter, the rent, and may have to be resolved through litigation. We
can't be an advocate giving that direction. You need a consumer
advocate to help them get their rent back safely -- their deposits
back. This is for another branch of the government. There has to be
other solutions out there. That is the first step.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: There is an official in the state.
MS. DUSTIN: I have to go back to the --
MR. RODRIGUEZ: The problem of the rents of the people
is how to govern themselves. They don't know anything. Where are
they supposed to go?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, two things. Please don't
prejudge. Don't say that the county commission isn't going to care.
Please -- as problems come to you, please present them. There may be
something that the board can do. I mean, you never know. But the
worst thing that could happen is if you stop telling us things because
you don't think we care about that one. I would like you to
communicate about the problems in the community. We do other things
other than government. I would like to know what the problems are
across the board.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I believe the hotline will be an
opening to line communications to that kind of information so that you
can see and we all can see what the problems are, what we can do.
MR. GUTIERREZ: I, too, am new in Naples, because last
Hay I came from California. Since I have been here, I have been
involved in the board. I kind of heard not too positive comments, not
necessarily from the board, but from the community itself of what type
of reaction it is receiving from the board. I am happy to see all
that is hogwash and you seem to be professionals. The celebration in
the community is a good idea, because we are currently having more
Hispanics come here. It seems to me to be almost two families per
months. These Hispanics are coming from New Jersey or New York or the
west coast of Hiami. A lot of the individuals are speaking different
dialects of Spanish. No, I don't think there should be another Hiami
and have all signs in Spanish and what have you. There is going to be
a time period where individuals who don't speak English at that time
will lose a load of the needs and services and a lot of the service of
a county. I recall at one of the meetings -- the one publicized in
the T.V. I forget her name. One of the issues --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The issue was about the
hazardous cleanup in Immokalee.
MR. GUTIERREZ: -- was a bilingual person. We need a
bilingual person to address the needs in Spanish. I think is what is
needed. Thank you.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let's look at the numbers. I
see people coming over all the time. I don't know what direct
responsibilities we all are having.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: With regards to that -- and
it is very simple. I don't doubt there is a need for that particular
individual. Before we go and hire someone, we ought to have a plan
for how we tend to implement that. Your staff could not answer what
those concerns were.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: They were ill-prepared. They
couldn't answer those basic questions.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It came back and was a problem.
MR. GUTIERREZ: I think that we need more individuals
that speak different languages that work for the county government,
that is a person with the skills to offer Spanish to the different
minorities that are coming in here. I know someone stated that we
have one person here, so why don't we call them to translate. Well,
that could be good, but I look at it this way. I didn't know how to
speak Spanish even though my grandfather did. This was a skill that I
had to develop and it is the same way I had to go out and get a
degree, that is the same way they have to get a skill. I think that
is a bona fide skill and should be compensated as opposed to saying
they already speak Spanish, let's just use them, let's pull them out.
That is the way I feel.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: To wrap this up and summarize
what we think you are working on is, number one, is the forum.
Generally, I think you're hearing that is a good idea. The hotline is
a excellent idea for information gathering especially where the
problems are. The third item is the celebration of the multifaceted
communities. I don't know what the cohesive point is, but
celebrations sounded good, a multi-American type celebration. The
last thing that we discussed, having a report before the county
commission from code enforcement on the housing occupation in
Immokalee and what we might be able to do in October when the winter
visitors are coming.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: We need code enforcement to keep them
from driving through the streets now with vans that they sell
groceries from. They buy a van and fill it up with groceries and act
as stores parked in front of the houses.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I have noticed that.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: Right in front of the house, on the
lawn. I'm telling you they sell everything from rice to clothing,
shoes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: At three times the value.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That is a code enforcement
problem.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: There is one item not on your
list. Further helping someone coming into the county such as having a
system where they can communicate.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Bilingual service.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And we have asked you to look at
recommendations.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: We need a middle ground where someone
that could be helpful, an individual downstairs that we could call,
special employees who speak Spanish. Maybe she can make the phone
calls and hand the phone to the receiving person.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Maybe you should look at that to
see if you can make a recommendation.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: I left in '87. I am Hispanic. I feel
terrible about the way Miami is. I wouldn't drive there.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Call this workshop to a close.
(The Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board workshop concluded
at 1:25 p.m.)
(The afternoon session reconvened at 1:30 p.m.)
Item #SG1
DISCUSSION RE NAPLES PIER REEF - APPROVED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Call back to order the Board of
County Commission meeting for June 6, 1995. We are on agenda 8
(G)(1), a discussion of the Naples pier reef.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to approve.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's make this quick.
MR. DUGAN: Madam Chairman, members of the board, I'm
Kevin Dugan with --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Make it real quick.
MR. DUGAN: -- the natural resources department. We're
asking you to approve the --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Fine. We have a motion and a
second. Is there further discussion?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, I was border line on
this until I saw Kevin's tie. Now I'm sold.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: All those in favor, please say
aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
Item #8H3
GORDON RIVER BRIDGE TAX REFERENDUM - PAMPHLET W/MAP INDICATING PROPOSED
LOCATION OF BRIDGE TO BE MAILED FIRST CLASS IN BI-LINGUAL LANGUAGE TO
EACH HOUSEHOLD
Next item on the agenda is 8 (H)(3), a discussion of
the Gordon River tax referendum.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Saadeh is going to make this
presentation, and each one of you should have a copy of the draft
pamphlet that has been put together with the cooperation of my office
and Dr. Woodruff's. We need to get you to take a look at it and Mr.
Saadeh to explain it and get a couple of decisions that we need to
make here today.
MR. SAADEH: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Sam
Saadeh, acting assistant to the county manager. I'll just take a
minute of your time. A couple of weeks ago, roughly, you asked for
staff to put a pamphlet together regarding the Gordon River bridge.
And as Mr. Dorrill had mentioned that Dr. Woodruff, myself, Jeff Perry
and Mr. Gatti from the city sat together and came up with a pamphlet
and tried to answer the most commonly asked questions. If you have
any input on that, need any additional changes to that -- it is only a
draft form -- I would be happy to do that for you.
Basically, we need some direction from you on whether
we need to mail this to registered voters or not. There are roughly
about 88,000 registered voters in the county, I mean, in Collier
County. We are approximating maybe about 60,000 households, so we
need to know whether we need to mail it to them or we can explore the
possibility of going through Mary Morgan's office and see if we can
send it with the ballot, when they mail the ballot. We don't know the
answer to that yet. We're exploring that. If you would like us to
explore it further, we can do that and give you an answer.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Commissioner
Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: First, I think the format of
this is very good. It doesn't suggest, yes, vote for it or, no, vote
against it. It is just strictly factual. I think you have a done a
good job with that. The other thing, a couple of weeks ago when we
asked about this, we asked not only for a pamphlet but for kind of an
outline for how -- and maybe this is the only way, for how we can
communicate the issue to the public. I don't know if, either through
legal exposure or someone, we plan to have a forum or forums later in
the year as well. Is there more -- do you have more in mind other
than just this?
MR. DORRILL: The answer to that is yes. And we have
made initial contact with the community, an objective community forum
for the Gordon River bridge issue. In researching our file I also
found where we, on prior occasions either in addition to the normal
talk show and channel 54 PSA opportunities that are there, that the
commission has produced quarterly reports that were also mailed.
These went a little beyond some of what I would just call factual and
actually had more of an advocacy position. You all did not indicate
to me that you wanted us to go that far. But the most recent ones
that I can recall were some of the information generated in
conjunction with the potential baseball stadium. And you may recall
that we also relied on a group that was headed by Mike McComas
(phonetic) to take a little more offensive position on that.
I think -- at least my impressions, unless you direct
me otherwise, would be the bridge coalition is going to need to be the
proponent for this and you wanted us to stay down the middle of the
road. But the PSA spots, normal talk shows, and the community forum
in conjunction with the League of Women Voters is what we are working
on with Dr. Woodruff's office.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a final thought. I like
the idea if we can distribute this with the sample ballot because the
two obviously go hand-in-hand. Not only does it save in mailing
costs, but if I get a copy of the sample ballot in my hands, I also
have an explanation, non-biased, factual information at that time,
same time. It will probably encourage me to participate to vote, so
that is obviously beneficial.
MR. DORRILL: We will need to ascertain how or when Ms.
Morgan will send out a sample ballot as part of this referendum. Mr.
Saadeh, you told me that the board needs to make a final decision on
the ballot question on --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: June 20th.
MR. DORRILL: We will be back and we will tell if any
changes are going to be made. We will give you the final copy of
this, and I will also have an answer from Ms. Morgan as to whether
this can be part of the sample ballot. And in the event that it's --
she's not anticipating a sample ballot, the question I asked Mr.
Cuyler was can this be in the same envelope as the mail ballot. He
thinks not, initially. And that is probably correct. But we would
need to determine that as well.
The other thing that Mr. Saadeh is going to be working
on is just to put together a little cost center and the necessary
budget amendment. It typically costs us somewhere, I think, between
three and six cents per copy to have these run. And we'll need to
determine if we have to mail these separate and what a bulk permit
would cost.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I wonder if we wouldn't reach
those many voters that are not here, not the ones who are not here at
the time, but by simply advertising this in the Daily News. I know
that it would probably cost us a $1,000 or more for something this
size, but that could be more cost-effective besides printing and
mailing it.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In addition to. I mean, I would
support an advertisement in addition to the mailing and then my only
other comment about this is I have a hard time painting a picture for
people about where this bridge is to be located. We answered the
question rather generally. The first question -- maybe instead of
this lovely map of Collier County and the State of Florida, we might
have some sketch or something that more clearly identifies where the
bridge is going to be.
MR. SAADEH: We can. We didn't pinpoint the location
purposely at this point. We needed some input from you. If the
location that was approved by the board is the right location, we can
then incorporate that on the map. There is no problem at all.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: The situation as I see it is that
we have as a board, along with the city counsel, continually gone
along the path here to where we have left this ultimate decision up to
the voters. Having taken that step and leaving it in the hands of the
voters where it should be, then it's really our responsibility to make
sure they know what we've asked them to do. So I think we should get
this into their hands one way or the other and whichever way it seems
to be the most effective. But doing it along with printing it,
probably several times, in the newspaper I think is also an excellent
idea. Because if we ask them to do that, they need to know what we
are asking them to do. So that is really how I feel about it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: My question is for Mr. Cuyler.
We've had discussions previously and been told that, in essence,
placing the location of the bridge in the ballot itself is not
recommended. By sending out information that does designate in
essence a northern location for this bridge, are we crossing that line
legally that it was recommended against us as far as putting in the
specific language in the ballot? Everyone says I want to know where
the bridge is going to be, and I think this shows that. It says,
okay, this is where the city council and the county have said they
want the bridge to be, so it's going in the right direction. We want
to make sure that we're not crossing that line that we had discussed,
with placing it in the ballot language.
MR. CUYLER: You're not crossing the line if that is
where the bridge is going to be. The advice was more along the lines
of -- and this is legal advice. This is not anything political as to
who wants the bridge where or anything else. This is legal advice.
And that is if you tie yourself to a location, you live with the
location whether it's in the ballot question or specifically to your
question. Yes, I would say that if you put it in this fact sheet and
say it's at a certain location, you live with that location.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That was really the purpose of
my question.
MR. CUYLER: The question itself, you'll note, doesn't
have anything about location. If something were to come up,
permitting or something else, and you couldn't put it in that
location, the question as it stands right now would give you the
ability to switch that in an emergency or whatever you deemed
appropriate. If the voters understand it is going to be at a location
and they vote, then that is what the location is going to be if it
doesn't work out.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So, in essence, we are binding
ourselves to the northern location by sending -- if we were to send
this out tomorrow and then wanted to -- and the voters approved the
referendum, but then we want to switch it to a southern location
because of some physical problem that occurs, can we do it without
going back on a referendum? I think this is important to the voters
to know.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I can't stand not answering that
question. I think somebody could argue that this influenced them.
The question is not you can be the judge and tell us how a judge would
rule, because you don't know. The question is would somebody be more
or less able to bring a lawsuit that has good legs against the county?
And every time we get a little closer down toward influencing the
ballot question then we add a little bit to that influence. But in my
judgment that is way past timbered and out-balanced by the fact that
people need to know what they're voting on. We've got to give them
enough information to be able to vote. So that lawyer is going to
tell you, yeah, you're probably going to be getting into a little bit
more of a gray zone, but then we have to say, yep, but what are our
choices? We've got to tip the scales to the practical.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Other than being in the ballot
language, I want people to know what they are voting on and if this
does that, great. If it says this is where it's going to be and if
you vote, yes, that is where you are going to find it, great.
Obviously I was just asking the technical question. I'm not asking
you to be a judge. I was just asking you to be our county attorney.
MR. CUYLER: And Commissioner Mac'Kie is exactly right.
There are no perfect answers on this. But the more information you
put in as to a location or where you tie yourself to that location, if
that is what you want to do, that is fine. If that's not what you
want to do, then you need to make an informative decision.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think that is what the public
expects us to do is tie it in. So that is fine with me.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Saadeh, what direction
are you looking for?
MR. SAADEH: The location, if you want us to pinpoint
the exact location. We can even show some graphics, map form of that
location.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: May I make a suggestion on that?
If you are going to put a little map on the corner of this handout,
couldn't you write under there proposed location and that way we still
have some flexibility on the northern route at least to be able to
withstand legal challenges rather than give a legal description of
where you are going to put it?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: That is the way the golfers do
it when they submit their PUD's with conceptual site plans. I mean
that is the way they do it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Golf plan, right?
MR. SAADEH: The first question on the sample pamphlet,
it talks about the location. We left it general per se, but it does
state north of Airport between Goodlette Road. We can just eliminate
the word north and keep it between Goodlette Road and Airport Road and
show a map with a proposed location. If it pleases you, I need some
direction on exactly what you would like us to do and then we would do
it.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me see if I can do this.
I would like just to -- my thoughts on the newspaper thing is if we
are going to actually, physically mail this to every single registered
voter, I think the newspaper ad becomes unnecessary because everyone
who can potentially vote will already have seen it, and there is no
need to reach further. So if we are going to move forward with
putting this in the mailbox of every voter, I don't know that we need
to spend it on a newspaper. But I would like us to go ahead with
this, perhaps replace the Collier County, Florida little picture with
a map of the proposed bridge location and try to piggyback -- I saw
Mary here -- and try to piggyback if we can on the sample ballot and
if not, explore the cost of doing that on our own.
MR. DORRILL: I want her to explain this to you, but we
will hopefully need to reformat this so that the back page is blank,
because we are going to have to mail this ourselves and do it through
a bulk rate.
MS. MORGAN: There is no sample ballot with the mail
ballot election. Therefore, what I suggest is putting this on the
minimum weight stock for a mailer and with working with us on the
design, we can print the household address on it directly and then you
send it for mailing. But you were talking about the newspaper versus
mailing. Regardless of what you decide in terms of a newspaper ad, if
you decide to go that way, you need to do a mailing to those people
who live east of 951 because subscription rates to the Naples Daily
News are nil. I mean the further east from that road you get, the
lower subscription rates. You will not reach the population in
Immokalee area or Everglades area if you don't mail.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll try to format that in
the form of a motion. I'll move that we go ahead and support the
distribution of this pamphlet with the proposed bridge location as a
graphic as opposed to the Collier County, Florida graphic and that we
distribute this to each of our voters, obviously, reporting back to us
whatever that cost will be to each voting household. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second.
Discussion? Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. I heard the county manager
say that we're intending to mail this out bulk mail and I want to
point out that they don't forward bulk mail. You are going to lose a
lot of voters by not going first class. If you want these forwarded,
they have to go first class.
MR. DORRILL: I'll need Ms. Morgan to help me again. I
don't know what the difference between what bulk rate is. We can
absolutely do that. It's just the cost applications are better. It's
about 13 cents per piece.
MS. MORGAN: There is a significant difference.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah, almost double. Last time
I checked --
MR. DORRILL: It's silly to mail one to every
registered voter. Why do the Dotrills need two sent to their house?
MS. MORGAN: I assumed you were talking about a
household mailing.
MR. DORRILL: Right.
MS. MORGAN: You would only get two to that household
if they had given us a slight variation to the way the address is
listed. However, the bulk mail, while it is substantially lower in
the cost of postage, that is basically second class mail. It will not
be forwarded. It will not even be returned to us with a forwarding
address. So it would be of no benefit to us in the future in terms of
trying to clean up the mailing before the mail ballot is posted.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do you know what the
expected loss is there? Is it like seven percent? Eight percent?
MS. MORGAN: During the summer months, I would say that
it is even higher than that without forwarding ability because people
are away at that time of the year.
MR. DORRILL: That's important because if the ballot is
going first class mail, there can be thousands of people that would
not receive it.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Okay. I'll amend my motion
to include first class and again to repeat households, not individual
voters.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second amends.
MR. CUYLER: Let me just mention one thing. Sam did a
good job on this. I don't see any concern, but your motion I take it
is substantially in this form. If we need to tinker with this a
little bit we've got that ability?
MS. MORGAN: Can I raise one other issue?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yes, Ms. Morgan.
MS. MORGAN: Do you want to consider the possibility at
least in the households where the people are identified as Hispanic
and have this printed in Spanish as well, in case they are not fluent
with the English so they will at least understand that the referendum
is on?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I like the idea.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I like the idea. How do we
identify those households? Just by their names?
MS. MORGAN: Before January 1st we had a pretty good
feel for it, since then if they tender that as their ethnicity.
They're not required to tell us ethnicity, you understand, but if they
did, we've got that logged in the system. We can extract voters by
that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I like the idea.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Me to.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Does it present a dual mailing
problem or do we send just to those in dual --
MS. MORGAN: What I would suggest perhaps is on your
form that is going to be sent to those households, that you might want
to go to a legal-size piece of paper to incorporate the Spanish. It
would still be two folds. It's just going to be a slightly different
configuration.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Does that need to be included in
the motion?
MS. MORGAN: If you need to plan for the translation
costs, yeah, I think you probably ought to amend your motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Will the motion maker amend the
motion to include bilingual language on the information?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Despite the fact that it
goes against my personal preference, it appears the majority of the
board would like that, so I'll say yes.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'll amend the second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: While we're at it, I am trying
to determine if there is enough majority support on the board to also
agree to advertise in the Naples Daily News, which I thought was a
good idea.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I won't make that part of my
motion because, again, as long as it's going to every household,
everyone who has the potential to vote will see this information. It
seems like additional --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I guess it's just, you know, one
shot is one shot and more than one is emphasis.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Agreed. But I don't think--
sorry, go ahead.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I was going to call the motion.
It appears we're not going to get a motion incorporated in the current
motion regarding advertising in the Naples Daily News, so I'd like to
call the question on this motion and then entertain a second motion
regarding newspaper advertising. All those in favor of the motion
presented, please say aye.
Opposed?
Motion passes 5 to 0.
Commissioner Mac'Kie, do you have a motion?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I do. I'd like to also have
staff make a proposal to us, perhaps not of just repeating this exact
picture, this exact pamphlet in the Naples Daily News, but we did ask
not just for a pamphlet, but for a media campaign, for lack of better
term, or some sort of media plan I think is what we asked for. So I'd
like to have staff make a recommendation to us of a media plan that
includes some advertising generally, some in the Naples Daily News if
appropriate, some on the radio, whatever other media they would
recommend.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion. Is there a
second?
I'll second the motion and I'm going to second it
because three of us are going to be, I presume, campaigning next year
and we do direct mail, we do radio advertising. We put up the
humongous 4 by 8 signs all over the place. We take a shotgun approach
to get the recognition out there. And I think this issue deserves as
much effort to get it passed as that does.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Perhaps more.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'm going to vote against the
motion today, because I think I've heard some statements about people,
like the bridge club, and that they are going to put on a campaign on
this also. And if so, they would be the appropriate ones to handle
the local media-type advertising, knowing that we are going through
with the direct mail here today. So for now, at least until we have a
more definitive answer from the bridge club and the people that are
supportive of the bridge, I'll withhold my support.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm going to oppose the
motion for two reasons. One, similar to Commissioner Norris's and
that is that I have talked with groups. Private groups have a goal
right now of raising $100,000 to put towards media-type things to get
this passed. And if private groups are doing that, we surely don't
need to be spending taxpayer dollars doing it. More importantly, when
we take that shotgun approach, that is money we have raised from
private sources and it is taxpayer dollars which should not be spent.
Again, it can be spent to educate -- and my compliments on the
pamphlet because it is strictly factual and not biased one way or the
other -- but your suggestion was that we should spend money to get
this passed. I think because some of the public who are paying those
tax dollars in are in favor and some are against it, it is not
appropriate for us to take a stand on one side or the other with those
dollars.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Before I call the motion, I want
to restate the motion. Commissioner Hac'Kie, correct me if I'm wrong
in what I restate. But I believe the motion was to present us with a
program that includes newspaper advertising. If that program is as
presented to us includes efforts of third parties, fine, we don't need
to follow up on it. We just want to make sure it is done. And I
believe that's what the motion was, not that we specifically do it
ourselves, but we want a program.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I actually wanted -- want to ask
to commit. I intentionally didn't ask for us to approve a budget and
say that we are going to spend money. What I asked for -- because I
didn't think I could get that far -- was could we have staff propose a
media plan. You can decide if you like or don't like it. But I am
just asking to give direction to staff just to propose a plan. If it
dovetails with the private plans. It does with the private plan. I
just think if we keep waiting, we'll wait too long.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: As much as I understand, as much
as you know my position on the bridge, I have to say that we have to
draw the line at where we supply factual information versus selling an
idea. And, unfortunately, I think going beyond getting information to
each and every voter in Collier County, it becomes a sell job, and I
think the criticism there would be fair. So I am also going to oppose
this motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'll call the question. All
those in favor, please say aye. Opposed?
Motion fails 2 to 3, Commissioners Constantine,
Hancock, and Norris being in the opposition.
Mr. Saadeh, you have your direction?
MR. SAADEH: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: You're welcome.
MR. DORRILL: I appreciate your support. He did a fine
job --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: He did.
MR. DORRILL: -- in a very short period of time.
MR. CUYLER: Just for the record, Madam Chairman, all
of your efforts in this area are the presentation of facts. I don't
think anyone should get the impression from anything that's been
discussed that the board is spending taxpayer money to try to sell it.
You're required by law to present the facts.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Was there just a recent Attorney
General's opinion?
MR. CUYLER: No, that has been around for a while.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I mean, there is a recent
declaration of the law. I don't know if it was an HEO or what.
MR. CUYLER: Oh, you can spend the money. There is no
problem with that at all. It just needs to be a valid presentation of
facts, as Commissioner Hancock indicated.
Item #9A
RESOLUTION 95-354, RELATING TO ACCESS TO LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICIALS;
PROVIDING A DEFINITION OF LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICIALS; PROVIDINNG FOR ACCESS
TO PUBLIC OFFICIALS; AUTHORIZING INVESTIGATIONS AND RECEIPT OF
INFORMATION; AND REQUIRING DISCLOSURE OF EX PARTE COHMUNICATIONS -
ADOPTED
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Madam Chairman, on the next
item, my understanding is what we are being asked here to pass a
resolution which just mirrors the findings, and all of the state
legislation, the ex parte communication situation we have discussed
for at least a year. I don't know if Mr. Cuyler feels he needs to
make a presentation. I'll make a motion to approve staff
recommendation.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: I will second that motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Cuyler, do you need to make
a presentation?
MR. CUYLER: I have no such need, and I will coordinate
with your office with regard to making sure that we can adhere to this
process real closely. Because once you do set this disclosure process
in motion, you do have to follow it closely. We are setting the rules
here.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I am going to ask that
Commissioner Constantine comment that it mirrors the legislation
passed by the Florida legislature; that is true?
MR. CUYLER: That is true. Your resolution, if you'll
check the legislation, which is also included, almost word for word.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Fine. We have a motion and a
second. All those in favor, please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 95-355, APPOINTING DAVID CORREA TO THE HISPANIC AFFAIRS
ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED
Next item on the agenda under Board of County
Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Madam Chairman, as for one
member, I'll move that we approve that applicant.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve David Cottea to the Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board.
those in favor, please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5 to 0.
All
Item #10B
HISPANIC AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD PROPOSAL TO HOLD A PUBLIC FORUH ON
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 21, 1995, AT 6:30 P.M. IN THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD
MEETING ROOM - APPROVED
Next item is 10 (B), a recommendation of the Board of
County Commissioners to approve the Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board
proposal.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Madam Chairman, this is
something that we discussed in public forum at our luncheon. I think
we're all informed on it, and I think it is a good idea. I'd like to
make a motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the concept of a public forum to be held Wednesday, June 21st,
1995, at 6:30 p.m. in this room. All those in favor, please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, passes 5 to 0. Thank you Ms.
Rodriguez.
Item #10C
DISCUSSION OF UTILITIES' AUDIT
Next item on the agenda is 10 (C) a discussion of the
utilities audit.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, someone is going to have
to speak about this.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have questions.
MR. CUYLER: We also are prepared to discuss the legal
aspects. I think we were asked for our legal opinion. Mr. Hanalich
has done some research. Commissioner Hac'Kie, if you would like to
start with a question.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, my question is, frankly, I
don't want to sound disrespectful, but I don't care about the legal
issues. I am not interested in whether the clerk does or doesn't have
authority, and I'm not interested in debating that issue. And,
hopefully, that's not even relevant; it's not for me. My reason for
wanting to talk about this was to talk about what are the procedures
by which the clerk decides when to audit an agency of county
government. So maybe he will tell us.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have an adjunct concern, and
it may delve into the legal aspect for the simple reason that if the
clerk is empowered legally to do something, such as a financial audit
and doesn't need the board's approval or direction, then he is going
to go off and do that and there is nothing we can do about. However,
in the past several months there's been continual talk between the
constitutional officers that I have spoken with about working together
on issues and items. And if there is a question whether or not this
is in the realm of the clerk of the courts, a legal question, then it
does become important. Because this board did not authorize it, nor
did this board even have a voice in whether we thought it was a good
idea. So that part of the process is of concern to me.
I just want to make sure we have an operating procedure
that everybody is involved in. If there is a reason why the board
didn't need to be notified about it, then fine. I would like to hear
that. But it was particularly embarrassing to me to be asked
questions about an audit going on for an operational audit of a county
department that I knew nothing about, wasn't informed on, and I would
have appreciated that in one way or the other. So it may be solved in
a policy statement or an agreement. But that is my concern and it may
involve some legal aspect.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Brock, do you want to
address that --
MR. BROCK: Sure.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- and how you pick and choose
what you are going to audit next?
MR. BROCK: Okay. Let me first address Commissioner
Hancock. Commissioner, on March 14th, 1995, my staff, my internal
audit director, Jim Mitchell, sent an engagement letter to Mike HcNees
over at utilities with a copy to each and everyone of the Board of
County Commissioners.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Which I did not get.
MR. BROCK: I certainly appreciate that, however, I
have checked with your staff member, and that particular document the
time was recorded in on March the 15th from the Board of County
Commissioner's office. It says at the request of one the board
members of the County Commission, the internal audit department will
be performing an examination of the utilities department. The
examination will primarily focus on certain work already begun by the
utilities subcommittee of the Collier County productivity committee.
It is anticipated that the examination commence the week of March the
20th and will take approximately three weeks and continues on with the
same information.
Let me explain to you the process by which we implement
the audit process. Whether or not it is from a private citizen or a
member of the Board of County Commissioners or any other individual
that brings an issue before my staff or I, it is then evaluated by my
internal audit department to determine whether or not they feel that
it is material or whether it is significant enough for them to engage
in the audit process.
Now, what transpired in this particular situation with
the utilities department was that a private citizen and Commissioner
Constantine brought to us information which indicated that there were
allegations that someone on county staff was taking county property,
that there were other incidents that were taking place out at
utilities, that my internal audit department after evaluating it and
reviewing it made a determination that it was either worthy enough to
look at and put to bed or to find out what, in fact, was taking place.
And that is how this particular engagement took place.
Now, Commissioners, you know we have engaged in a group
of audits this year, a list of which I would be more than happy to
provide to you. Each and everyone of you should have received a copy
of the audit report on each one of them. And to my knowledge, I think
each and every one of them were requested by someone on your staff.
We had an audit that was requested by the probation department
director and which we undertook at his request. We've done one on the
library that was done at the request of a staff member. We have done
one on the airport authority that was done at the request of a staff
member. But, Commissioners, there are many requests that are made of
my audit department to engage in, what I would, using the term
loosely, engage in an audit. We certainly do not take each and every
request because of the limitation of resources that we have or the
lack of merit, the perceived merit on my staff's part, or the
materiality of the issues which are being raised and go out and engage
in a particular audit.
We have what we call our audit schedule for the year.
And, believe it or not, I think that with the exception of one or two
for the entire year, this particular audit schedule were audits that
were scheduled for entirely the clerk of the court department.
However, that happens to not be the way that things have shaken out.
As a consequence, some people bring things to our attention which we
felt were worthy of being looked at, being examined, and having gone
through. So for the general public information, these items can
either be put to rest as not having any merit, or they can be
identified in the problems addressed. The audits that we engage in,
Commissioners, are for your benefit. More importantly, they are for
the general public's benefit. That is the way I construe the
Constitution that tells me I am the county auditor.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: One of things that gave me some
comfort about this is that I met with Mr. Mitchell briefly this
morning before the meeting started, and I had had a misimpression that
somebody without training or experience, somebody who is like a CPA,
or a bean-counter-type had been asked to do a performance audit of a
department of county government. These are people who maybe were,
maybe weren't politically motivated but, nevertheless, were not
trained what they had been asked to do. So I was just worried that
there is some unprofessional, somebody like me out, there asking do
you like your boss, do you think you are treated fairly. These are
questions that an amateur would ask.
Having spoken with Mr. Mitchell for the amount of time
we had, I gained a great deal of comfort about the professionalism and
the training and the experience that he has and his staff has under
your direction. That makes me less concerned about, you know, the
possibility of some poorly done, improperly handled audit being done
by somebody who is unprofessional.
MR. BROCK: Commissioner, I can understand your concern
with regard to that. I have a CPA license that I have hung on my wall
over there. But I would no more undertake personally the engagement
of going out there and being involved in an audit than I would of
jumping off of the Gordon Bridge.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: First or second?
MR. BROCK: Second. I have a staff who is trained in
that particular profession that was hired based upon their competence
and their training for that particular responsibility. My director of
internal auditing, Jim Mitchell, has nine years of experience as an
internal auditor. He is a certified internal auditor, he's a
certified fraud auditor. And he has audited banks. He has been in
the private and governmental sector. And I think if you will take the
opportunity to look at some of the audits that he has performed, you
will find that those have been handled in a very professional and
proficient manner.
I have heard on many occasions that what this is is a
performance audit. Now, I have -- know not from where that comes, and
I see Commissioner Matthews shaking her head. This is no more a
performance audit. It is an audit of a private entity. This a
comprehensive audit that is being performed. The only thing in this
audit that we are engaged in has performance ramifications. It is the
preservation of resources and obviously you cannot do a financial
audit without taking into consideration the preservation of resources
and that is the aspects on which we are looking at performance.
I have heard, how in the world is the clerk of the
courts, with three staff members, engaging in a full performance audit
of the utilities department. I think Mr. Mitchell in his
conversations with Commissioner Hancock -- Commissioner Constantine
indicated to him that we certainly were not even going to think of
undertaking a task of that magnitude with the staff personnel and
experience that we had. He did not request that we do that, but we
wanted to make sure that it was understood that was not where we were
headed. We were taking the particular allegations that had been made,
some of which, Commissioners, I think are very significant. I mean
they were allegations that, I think, it is the regional water impact
fee ordinance was being violated. And, in fact, certain loans to
defer those impact fees were being granted by the people who were
applying. There were such things as the ordinance not being complied
with that were addressed that we will ultimately look at. There were
such things as county employees were taking county property in
violation of the disposal of property statute. These things -- we
certainly do not know at this point in time whether or not these
things had any validity. But for the purpose of integrity of
government, we look at it as these things need to be put to rest if
they are not valid, and the general public needs to be made aware if
they are not true. On the converse of that, if, in fact, they are
true, you and I as government employees need to do what we can to
eliminate that problem from existing. That is the whole purpose of
what I am engaged in doing.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Brock, no one here today is
standing questioning Mr. Hitchell's ability, your department's
ability. You know how I think this started off as questioning your
authority. From what I've received, and according to a letter put
together by Mr. Mitchell at the request of a county commissioner, and
from information contained in a report produced by an individual, a
report that was not adopted by the committee that individual was
operating under, or a report that was not presented to the Board of
County Commissioners by that committee. In other words, it was put
together by one person, and the committee didn't even adopt it. Those
are the sources for which Mr. Mitchell made his determination to
proceed with an audit. My concern is -- and we can keep this out of
the legal arena simply by asking you -- it seems to me that maybe
there is some input that some of us would like to have into this
audit. We are not afforded the opportunity, as you pointed out. I
received a letter that said the examination will primarily focus --
and it goes on -- work has already begun. This was the first notice I
supposedly -- and I am sure you sent it. I don't recall this, but
let's say I did read it on March 15th --
MR. BROCK: I think my director sent it.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. So work has already
begun. So you are already doing it and I had no input whatsoever into
it. And I just don't think among constitutional officers that that is
the way we want to move ahead.
MR. BROCK: Commissioner, at the point in time this
particular letter was sent and received by the county commissioner's
office, we had undertaken nothing. All we had was we had received a
report and were asked to look at the allegations in that report and
make a determination, if we could, whether or not they had any
validity. I not only am willing to give you input into the audit
process, but I wholeheartedly invite and solicit that input. That was
my whole purpose in the letter of March 14th, to give you that
opportunity. If you will look at the last line, I think it says, if
you should have any questions, I can be reached at -- your cooperation
in this matter is greatly appreciated. I understand your concern, and
there may have very well been some miscommunication. But understand
me, it's not my intent to exclude you from this process in any way. I
think that it is incumbent upon you to participate in this process. I
wholeheartedly agree that the constitutional officers, you and I, Abe,
Guy, Don, should cooperate -- and Mary -- should cooperate with each
other in every endeavor we undertake. And it is my objective to
further that in any manner which I can. I understand your concern,
and it may very well have been a fault of communications from me to
you. But I have not engaged in any audit that I'm aware of, right off
the top of my head, this entire year on a county department without it
either being a request from the supervisor in that department, or
something being brought to my attention that gave me concern.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I will never stand in the way of
efforts to ferret out waste or inefficiencies in county government.
And I am not here today asking you to stop an audit that is ongoing,
because if there are problems, I want them discovered. I want them
handled. All I am asking is on the front end that this board have the
consideration that if a single member approaches you, you get with the
county department that needs to be audited, that we have input on the
front and back before it begins, more than -- not just a letter saying
we're going to do it, but we should work together on the front end.
That is my big concern, Mr. Brock. And that is the whole reason I
wanted to talk about this today, so that an open line of communication
and understanding of how these things -- I would like to move them
forward.
MR. BROCK: Tim -- Commissioner Constantine, I don't
have any problem with that at all, and I agree with you
wholeheartedly, with one caveat. Obviously there is a certain degree
of independence that has to take place. But the cooperative effort of
us all is needed to make this government work; I agree with that. And
I am more than willing to give you any input into the process that you
are willing to bestow upon me, because that can only make the process
better.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Brock, I am happy that you
are doing that. That is fine, and I certainly wouldn't question the
abilities of your department either. I am sure they are going to do a
fine job on the audit. But I do have the concern about whether this
is something that the board should have authorized, legal or not, and
I'll have to rely on our county attorney for that determination.
MR. CUYLER: It depends on what scope the clerk is
talking about. I guess we can get into the full-blown legal analysis,
if that is what you want to do. The clerk takes the position that he
is the auditor in all aspects of audits, including performance audits,
although he has indicated for the record that he does not consider
this to be a performance audit, but that he would be entitled to a
performance audit. I believe that is the clerk's position, if he were
to choose to do so. Our position -- and our research indicates that he
is not authorized by law over the board's objection to do a
performance audit, that he could do that with the board's
authorization.
The question becomes what is the audit? What is the
scope of the audit? We contacted Lee County -- and I'll have Mr.
Hanalich go through the full legal analysis, if you want to do that.
We contacted Lee County and asked them if they had performance audits
take place by the clerk in your county, and this is one of the few
places -- or the only place that we have heard where this takes place,
could you explain to us what is going on. They said no. It is not a
performance audit. The county attorney's position is that the clerk
is not authorized to do performance audits, but it is more a check and
balance and internal control-type of audit. So the question really
becomes -- and the thing that I really can't put my hand on exactly,
is what is going on and how is that described. Many of the things
that the clerk has talked about probably would be considered internal
control or check and balance. But there is a point where you cross
that line. Exactly where that is, we're not sure, but we believe
there is a line.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I have asked Mr. Cuyler to
contact the FICPA and the NAS, the N-A-S division, because I am sure
they have material which will describe for us what a performance audit
is. In my talking with Mr. Mitchell about what his -- what he has
been doing, I don't believe what he has been doing is a performance
audit, because he is not assessing the efficiency and state-of-the-art
operations of the utilities division, as to whether or whatever they
are doing is right or wrong. What he is doing is taking the existing
standards and policies as adopted by this government and comparing
those policies to what is actually happening for compliance purposes.
That is an internal audit. To me that is an extension of a financial
audit and within the purview of the court -- the clerk of the court.
MR. CUYLER: I think even with that discussion under
that scenario, I mean, some of the things that Dwight has described
with regard to county assets, control of cash accounts, disbursements,
revenues, those types of things, I think arguably are within --
clearly are within internal controls and checks and balances. Some of
the other facets that branch out into the more business orientation,
the more management orientation; how is the department being run
outside of those aspects. In my opinion, that starts to branch into
the performance audit. I would think that that would not be
authorized.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, rather than sit here and
argue legal questions today, why don't we see if we can settle it just
very simply. Mr. Brock, there is some question as to whether this may
have some performance audit aspects or not. There is some question
about whether the clerk's office has the legal authority to do them
unilaterally if they are performance audits. Why don't we just do
this. In the future if your department may want to consider an audit
that may have some characteristics of performance auditing, could you
just pass that by the board and let us know before you are going to
start, I think, then we won't have this problem in the future.
MR. BROCK: That is what I thought I had done in this
particular case, Commissioner. And I don't have a problem with that.
We engaged in no fieldwork until long after this particular letter
went out, and my references were to have it brought up on a county
commission agenda.
Commissioner, I don't really have a problem with that.
But if you feel that I don't have the authority to perform the audit,
may I suggest to you that what you need to do is pass a resolution
directing me not to do it.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think, Mr. Brock, we're asking
to work together on it and not to get into a match about who is right
and who is wrong.
MR. BROCK: As I told you I don't have a problem with
that. I will try to communicate with each one of you. I will not
engage in a controversy with you because that is going to get us
nowhere. I try to work with you and do whatever I can to cooperate
with you in all aspects of my performances as a county auditor.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I understand. The reason I
think it important for us to have the ability to talk about it is that
you can talk to us individually, but we can't talk to each other. And
Commissioner Constantine or Commissioner Hac'Kie may have some
information that they would like me to know that is the basis for an
audit, and we can't talk to each other. So that's why it's important
for us that if there is any element outside of the financial element
that deals with performance that may involve board policy direction on
that end, I would like the ability to hear from my colleagues on that
before proceeding. And that is the important part to me so that we
are acting in unison as a board.
MR. BROCK: Well, the problem I have with that,
Commissioner -- and I understand you may think this is trivial. I
happen not to think it is trivial. There are certain circumstances in
which things are taking place that if it comes to light that we're
looking at them, then they disappear.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Real fast.
MR. BROCK: Real fast. And as a consequence of doing
that, that presents a problem because everybody knows under the
circumstances that you have just outlined and the evidence then
disappears. As a consequence of that, that places me in a particular
situation which is very uncomfortable from the standpoint of the
auditor.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let me make a comment on this
and see if we can't wrap it up. It seems to me the significant
difference between this internal audit for the utilities division and
the other internal audits that you've done is that the other audits
have been at a request of someone in the manager's agency, either the
manager --
MR. BROCK: Or a private citizen.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- or a private citizen for
other divisions that you have audited have come about by way of
private citizen?
MR. BROCK: That is correct.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I thought you listed off
department heads and so forth that had requested an audit.
MR. BROCK: The overwhelming majority have been through
department heads. But let me give you an example, and this is a
hypothetical example. If someone comes to me with an allegation that
some impropriety, some fraud is taking place, I am not going to bury
my head in the sand. I am going to go look at that and see whether or
not there is significant evidence that supports that allegation, and
then I am going to look at it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think I've come full circle on
this. I started out unhappy that this was going on that I didn't know
about it. How could Commissioner Constantine and Doug Rankin get
together and stir up so much trouble with just the two of them. I
think what I have decided instead -- if we're going to learn a lesson
out of this, what we had in development services, it's going to be you
can't ignore indications of problems. What we went through with the
public services was that we should have responded sooner to anonymous
complaints.
What we have here is a complainer who signed his name.
His committee didn't agree with what he had to say, but he signed his
name and he showed it to the commissioner and the commissioner felt --
I'm sure looked at it enough to decide that he felt like it was
something serious, and he brought it to you, and you have
professionals who evaluate whether or not there is something worth
looking into. And then, you know, if you're silly enough -- and I
don't think you are -- to get yourselves involved in some political
baloney, then let the chips fall where they may. It is your job. And
if we start requiring that you can't audit any of the county manager's
work without our permission or at least without a public hearing
first, that's too much; your hands are tied too tightly. So I have
made a full circle from where I started on this. I think that you
have professionals. I might disagree with whether or not Mr. Rankin's
report is a sufficient basis for an internal audit, but you have to
live with that decision, not me.
MR. BROCK: Reasonable people differ, Commissioners.
You know, let's be careful here. You know, it is not only from the
standpoint of I'm looking for bad stuff. That is not my job in it's
totality. Accompanying that particular element of my audit
responsibilities is the integrity of the government that needs to be
protected also. And if there isn't any validity to that, the general
public needs to know that as well. And that is as much what we
undertook this for as it was to ferret out things that were wrong.
And that was -- and if I may be so kind to Commissioner Constantine,
as I understand it from Jim Hitchell, was one of the requests that
Commissioner Constantine made to him. If they are not valid, let's
put them to bed. If they are, let's find out what they are.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine, I hope
a final comment so we can move on.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I appreciate that comment,
Dwight. First of all, the -- and I don't think this is how you
intended to characterize it, but the questions I raised certainly were
not to stir up trouble, I believe is how you categorized it. There
were some questions -- as a group I may or we may or may not, and as
an individual I may or may not agree with some or all of Mr. Rankin's
allegations. However, not only from that report, but from
communications with employees themselves, from communication with the
manager and other things that went on in the first two years I was in
office, that there were questions that raised enough of a question in
my mind, many very similar to the questions you found at Environmental
Services Community Development, I thought they were worth looking at.
I asked Mr. Hitchell and Mr. Brock exactly that, is
tell me if there is any merit and if maybe these are worth looking at.
But I was very careful to state there may not be, and if there is
not, we need to make sure that is very clear too. We're not out there
to merely point out the things we are doing wrong. But if there are
allegations, and those inaccurate or untrue or rumors that are
circulating that are untrue, we owe it to our employees and to the
public to make sure they know for a fact that those are untrue as
well. So the intent here is hopefully at the end of -- I think he has
about another two and a half weeks he said -- to either learn if we're
making some mistakes and be able to correct those. But equally
important is to put to bed any false allegations.
MR. BROCK: I was watching Mr. McNees and Mr. Dotrill
today. I've not been out to the utilities department, but I think
that I communicated this to Commissioner Matthews. And I think for
the peace of mind for the employees out there at the utilities
department, I think it is incumbent upon me to bring to your attention
that those employees out there have been extremely cooperative, have
been extremely dedicated to what they are doing from the appearance
that they have given the internal audit staff that has been out there
with them. I think the employees themselves -- so there aren't all of
these rumors and innuendoes, if that is what they are, are running
around out there that disrupts their operation, should be put to bed
so that they go on about their business and get the work of the county
accomplished. You know, I agree that you have got a very dedicated
group of people out there that don't deserve to have these clowns
hanging around all of the time. It's time to put them to bed.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a final note. I agree
wholeheartedly with Commissioner Norris and Commissioner Hancock that
we need to make sure our communication is clear, and if we fail in
that endeavor somewhere, then I'm sure we are all sorry for that. I
want to compliment Dwight. He has -- I assume with all of us, but he
meets with me every other week, which to the best of my knowledge no
other clerk has done with the board in the past, and has made a point
to have an open line of communication back and forth between his
office and the board. So perhaps we need to improve on some of that,
but we're certainly a step ahead where we have been in the past.
MR. DORRILL: If I could just echo that. I think a
great deal of the problem or concern here was one of communication.
And the clerk -- I have sat here more than any public official that I
know and lauded the effort and professionalism of Mr. Mitchell since
he came from Charlie Green's office in Lee County. I have said it at
least three times in the last six months sitting in this very chair.
I think we deviated what had been our normal protocol, and I will say
that Mr. Mitchell's office has what they call a manual, an audit
manual, and it clearly differentiates between financial compliance and
performance auditing criteria. And I think what happened here
initially was that communication could have been better and that the
scope or the individual areas of interest probably could have been a
little better communicated, not only to other board members but the
management team as well.
As I have sat here as your county manager, we fully
recognize the effective role in the important check and balance that
the clerk plays for the very reasons that you mentioned, which is to
insure the integrity of the government process. I think by and large
that has occurred, and I think it's as close to public adherence to
the audit manuals and that they have will certainly go a long way to
meeting the needs of everyone that is involved.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Brock.
MR. BROCK: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The next item on the agenda -- I
presume we're just going to put that to bed.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I don't think we need a motion.
It was just a report.
MR. CUYLER: I don't think you need a motion.
Item #10D
DISCUSSION OF LAKELAND AVENUE EXTENSION VACATION - STAFF DIRECTED TO
PREPARE AGENDA ITEM FOR 6/13/95 MEETING
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm sorry. That is a late
One.
MR. CUYLER: I thought you said the next item. That is
not a true vacation. That is a description.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's not a true vacation.
This is a project that I have been working on with three other
citizens up north of Willoughby Acres for two or three months, maybe
even longer.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What item is this?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: This is an add-on, 10 (D), I'm
sorry.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll withdraw my motion.
The motion originally was to approve that item.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: There is nothing to approve at
this point. The question that I have is whether to direct staff to
bring back information for us to give these three residents parcels of
land in the area north of Willoughby Acres, a quitclaim deed with a
reasonable easement attached to it, to give back the land that these
three people or citizens donated to the county in 1981 in hopes of
having a public road. The project was abandoned by the county in 1984.
They have since been trying to get their private land back and have
been unsuccessful without an unreasonable easement attached to it.
That is all this is about. It's to have our staff come up with a
mechanism for getting this land back to the property owners who
donated it in good faith and the county abandoned the project. That
is what it is about.
MR. HULLER: For the record, my name is Russ Mullet
with transportation. I have a handout that depicts the property. The
reasonable easement that we have proposed is an access easement for
the property owners that have to go over to the property in question.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Might I suggest if our only goal
today is to direct staff to bring this back to us, are we going to
rehash something we're hearing today and do it again?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Exactly. I want staff to bring
us back the paperwork so that we can fully study it. I have paperwork
going back ten years which I will be glad to copy and distribute to my
colleagues. I don't think that we need to address this today, because
we are going to address it in a short period of time. But there is
already an easement, a private easement to address the property to the
north.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Madam Chairman, with deference
to the work that you have done on this, if you feel that there is
something that staff needs to bring back for board direction, I will
gladly make a motion to direct staff to work with you on bringing this
back in a suitable format so that we can take a look at it and get all
the backup and information at one time.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I would appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Dorrill.
MR. DORRILL: I just had one question, Mr. Mullet,
because it came up in a meeting yesterday with Ms. Matthews, was that
the genesis of this required PUD construction access for the
development of Imperial Golf?
MR. MULLER: No. The genesis was the petition by the
property owners to construct a road, and I need some direction as far
as the reasonable access. Mr. Waltson has submitted proposals, one,
get the quitclaim with no easement, and, two, reduce the potential for
development congruities.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: They would like to get their
property back in the same condition in which they granted it to the
county. There was a private easement over the property for access to
the property north of them when they gave it to the county. And it's
reasonable that that private easement would remain with the property
when it goes back to them. The property was donated to the county for
the purpose of forming an MSTU to build a public road. And the county
in 1984, if my dates are correct, abandoned that project. These
people have, since that time, been trying to get their property back,
and they have been unsuccessful now for 11 years.
MR. MULLER: As long as an easement exists for the
property owners, that's why.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We need to make sure that the
property owners to the north of them have access through their own
private easement, which they had before.
MR. MULLER: Right. I haven't got a copy of that
easement, or I'm not aware of that easement.
MR. CUYLER: When staff comes back they will explain to
you the downside of returning the property in a very organized format.
As long as you recognize that, there is no problem with having this
property returned.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do you have a time frame
that you want to come back to?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'd like to see it back if it is
possible. The 13th is going to be a long meeting; right? What is the
20th looking like, Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: Equally long.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Equally long?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, because the appeal of the
administrative decision for Hideaway Beach has been continued for next
week. The PUD amendment, though, is going to now become the real
fulcrum point for that whole issue that is going to be on the 20th.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is there any possibility of
getting this issue back next week then, so that we don't make the 20th
any longer?
MR. CUYLER: Yes, It is not that complex. There may be
a handout during the week as opposed to -- we'll put an item on the
agenda, but your backup may come late this week.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is that adequate? I mean I can
copy this stuff and get it to you today. Okay. We'll look for it
next week. Thank you.
We're at the public comment portion of our agenda and I
presume we don't -- I don't see anyone.
Item #11A
RESOLUTION 95-356 BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND UNITED
TELEPHONE COMPANY OF FLORIDA - ADOPTED
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: 11 (A).
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: 11 (A), is there a motion to
approve a resolution?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I have one question for the
sheriff's staff.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'll second that motion.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I already did.
MR. DORRILL: Last Thursday I reviewed the tentative
capital improvement, and there was a request from the sheriff's
department that I am not going to recommend, but will give the sheriff
the courtesy of showing you that it is not recommended, which was, I
believe, $850,000 of additional enhanced 911 computer-aided dispatch
equipment. My question is is that part of the expenses associated
with this request, because on the one hand, I can't recall how much
this was intended to raise, but if this is to further develop our
enhanced 911 system, are you going to be hurt if we don't find the
other, what we call 301 capital improvement?
MS. D'ORAZIO: I believe it is actually two separate
requests. The portion of my budget that is being funded $150,000 for
a GEO database management system is for 911. The sheriff's office will
be able to connect into that GEO database system, which will assist
them in delivery of emergency services to the entire county. Is the
911 system directly going to be hurt? I would say that probably, no,
it is not going to be hurt. It will still operate. But it will
enhance the operations if what the sheriff has requested is approved.
Does that answer your question?
MR. DORRILL: Not really. Because I am not
recommending what the sheriff requested, because we couldn't get the
fund balanced. So I am not recommending the $850,000 expenditure. I
know that we already collect a surcharge on the phone bills, and I
wanted to make sure that we're not going to put a surcharge on
everybody's phone bill, but then the county manager is not
recommending to the commission that we purchase the equipment that is
necessary to have that GIS overlay or whatever it is.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So the question is this 12-cent
increase relevant if the $850,000 is not approved.
MS. D'ORAZIO: It is still relevant. Because that
12-cent increase is not solely on that. That 12 cent increase is in
addition to the 30,000 access line increase we had over the last year.
MR. DORRILL: That answers my question. If it is only
operational to support the 911 dispatch center and does not entail the
recommendation, then you have answered my question.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is there a motion and a second?
Further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Opposed?
Motion passes 5 to 0.
Item #14
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COMMUNICATIONS
Communication portion, Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
Nothing.
Commissioner Hancock.
No, MA'am.
Commissioner MAc'Kie.
No.
Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Nothing.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Oh, my gosh, I'm sorry. I have
three items. Quick items.
We have been notified by Lee County that the Tri-county
workshop that we discussed last week will be August the 3rd and 12th
in the Lee County courthouse.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: A really nice, big facility with
huge offices, oak.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's not belabor this.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Can you believe that there are
only 10 people that work in that entire building? That is true.
There are five commissioners and their aids and then they also have
secretaries. They are the only ones that occupy that entire two story
building.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I have a letter from Fred
Zelinsky (phonetic), chairman of the Homeless Advisory Committee,
dated Hay the 9th requesting that this board disband that advisory
committee. I'm asking that this board give direction to the county
manager to bring back a resolution or whatever form we need to do
that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Which committee?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The Homeless Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Which is one we discussed in
that workshop way back that had not met and we sent out a request.
Their recommendation was to disband. So I would be comfortable
directing staff to bring forth a resolution to -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If that is a motion, I will
second it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Bring back a resolution
or ordinance, whatever it is we need to disband this particular
advisory board.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sue already has it on next
week's agenda.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Good. The last item I have is a
flurry of memos that seem to have been going between Commissioner
Constantine and Mr. Dotrill regarding memorandums and signs and
material.
Commissioner Constantine, I am having difficulty with
your requesting material that Mr. Dotrill addressed to me. You may
even have it before I get the opportunity to read it, and the fact
that often I am out searching for answers to questions that may or may
not eventually come up. I'm just not comfortable with your asking for
copies of information that he is supplying me.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If I could respond. I
believe that is public record and I can request, as can virtually any
citizen in the county, copies of public --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's true. But citizens in
the county, if they request public information -- number one, they
must know specifically what they are asking for and not have a shotgun
approach. And they must pay for that. And I don't know what the cost
of this would be for Mr. Dorrill's office to be making additional
copies, much less the paper and you know the electricity and so forth,
but that is a whole separate issue. I think the five of us are equals
and that I respect your ability to get whatever information that you
request from staff without my perusing what it is you're
investigating. I just take offense at it.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, that is certainly -- I
am going to respond. My intent is not to somehow impede on your
space. But, again, if cost is the concern then perhaps Mr. Dotrill
can simply make those copies available at a convenient location and
for a review each day since you maintain copies on file anyway. If
cost is a concern, that is fine. But I'm not trying to impede on
Commissioner Hatthew's space. It is just there are some particular
things that have been alleged that I don't want to get into here -- it
is not appropriate -- that I want to review and that is public
information.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, I think I was next. My
comment is on a couple of things. One is something that I noticed in
my long six, seven months now as a county commissioner, is one thing I
think we could all do better, do a better job of, that is when I do
get information that might be general knowledge, if it would benefit
all of the other commissioners, it would be useful if I would remember
to ask Chris to distribute a copy to everybody. And I wish that all
of us would do a better job of that. So if you find something out
that it would be useful for me to know, then have a courtesy copy
provided to me. I would really, really appreciate that from
everybody. I'm trying to do a better job of that myself. That would
be one way that we would all know what each of the other is doing.
But I don't think it is your goal to find out what other commissioners
are doing.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That is correct.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So maybe you could exclude
something from this and maybe, frankly, your lawyer can tell you, but
if it is a public information request, you do have to be more specific
and there are reasons for that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: My concern is not that his goal
would be to know what anyone of us might be working on, but that is a
result of what the request is, and I can't help but realize that that
is what the result is, whether it is intended or not. I don't believe
it is intended, but that is what happens.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Since I made the mistake once of
asking a question about sewers on Marco Island, I assume every memo I
write is read by everyone and their mother. So I'm not too concerned
about something I send to the county manager's office or what they
send to me. My question is there is staff that Mr. Dotrill has,
they're taxed with a certain workload, and I believe there are things
such as E-mail that normally are not copied. I think we are making an
additional element of taxation on Mr. Dorrill's staff which may not be
the best use of resources. If there are specific areas that
Commissioner Constantine would like to know, I think the same law that
applies to the public is appropriate here and that is specify those
areas and request information in those areas and it should be
provided. But I do want to say that the shotgun approach may be
cumbersome for his staff to handle and that from an efficiency
standpoint, is a concern when I read the memo. But I feel
uncomfortable getting between you and the county manager. I'm not
trying to do that. If there are things that you need to know that are
down there, great, go get them. I'm not sure the shotgun approach is
the most efficient way to get that done.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Cuyler, if a member of
the public were to come in here today and say they want to see
everything that was sent out by the board, any member of the board
today, unless they are more specific, do we have the right to say no,
I'm sorry, we're not going to give you those? If they say today,
whatever today's date is, June 6th, I would like to see all of the
correspondence from the Board of County Commissioners.
MR. CUYLER: That probably would be specific enough.
Generally what you do is you allow someone to examine a file or
examine a document which has been identified for you. If you give a
date then the government has a way to track that information. In
other words, those copies are -- in other words, if they get a copy at
one o'clock and they come in at three o'clock and there is no way to
determine that went out today but it is in the next file, that might
give you a problem. There is no real definite rules on how precise you
have to be, but you have to be precise enough to identify what you are
talking about basically. I will tell you that if members of the
public come in and say we want all the documents you have in X file
and any document that does come into that file for next two weeks, we
will tell them, no, you can have any document in X file, but you're
going to have to come back and make another request within two weeks
from now if you want everything for the next two weeks. That is about
as close as I can get to where you are talking about.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can -- do you mind if I just ask
a question? I don't want to interrupt the thought. At one time -- I
guess it was the first workshop we had, we talked about having a
public information file that copies everything we do anyway. There
ought to be somewhere that is easily accessible. Does anybody know if
our staff actually does that, the manager's staff actually does that?
MS. FILSON: We do. We have a media file and
everything that one commissioner sends to another is put in the media
file and all of your correspondence files to anyone else is filed in
the big oak cabinets out in the front.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What about if I write to Neil?
MS. FILSON: It's filed out in the front.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So if I write -- If I send a
memo to development services --
MS. FILSON: It is filed out front.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So as far as anything that goes
out of the county commissioner's office, we all have access to the
media file. You must have a similar --
MR. DORRILL: We're the same. Commissioner Constantine
hit on the -- perhaps the possible solution. We certainly don't have
anything to hide, and if there is a specific request for anything, it
is typically adhered to the same day. I just wanted to make sure that
this was not going to become one of those so-and-so issues directive
to the county manager or has attempted to interfere with the county
manager. If we can make those copies available for inspection before,
then they go to the topical file like, you know, the Gordon River
bridge file, that if we could hold those before they are put in the
topical files to be reviewed by anyone, whether it is a commissioner
or multiple commissioners or a commissioner's personal secretary, and
then if he or she says okay, I'd like to make a copy of this, this,
this, this, that is a much easier thing.
Frankly, it is a much more helpful process for us to be
able to effectuate, rather than the flip side of that which would make
an extra copy of anything that anyone finds in your office every day
and delivered to our office. That is a little cumbersome. If we can
accomplish the other by making them available for inspection by
anybody and then make individual copies as requested, that is much
easier thing for us.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That sounds like that might
work. That serves the purpose. Good. That will do it. Mr. Dotrill, you have two things.
MR. CUYLER: I have one thing while Neil is getting
ready. That is, I did look at Section 951.26, the Florida Statutes on
the issue of the regional jail. I've issued a very short memo saying
that it might be -- and in my opinion that is the appropriate entity
to look at that issue along with its counterparts.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE:
MR. CUYLER: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
entity.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
That is a, yes, it is?
Yes, it is an appropriate
Good.
Mr. Dotrill.
Item #15
STAFF'S COMMUNICATIONS
MR. DORRILL: Three quick things. Just to advise you
that Mr. Coakley, your I.T. director, has been asked to be and
represent Collier County as part of the new Free-net that is going to
be given in July. We had a presentation last week at our staff
meeting, and it's going to be a very exciting opportunity for this
community and to advise you that we have been asked to play a major
role in that. I have designated him to be our contact person on your
behalf.
Preliminarily, Ms. MAtthews had asked me to update you.
There appears to be interest on the part of the private sector to
propose on a request for proposals to expand on the food service
concessions here at the government center. And specifically, we
generated some information in conjunction with our concessionaire from
the division of blind services to use private sector money. I don't
mind telling you who has expressed interest in it -- it is McDonald's
-- to consider and re-bond to a joint venture-type proposal where
they would front the capital to expand and enlarge on the food service
area here, and make him some type of joint venture partner, which is
sort of a moral obligation that we have to support the division of
blind services. We'll get more for you to think about in July on
that. We would be, to our knowledge, the only local government in the
state that is pursuing that type of privatization through the division
of blind services. It is just kind of a neat, innovative thing that
we are doing.
Finally, we have had -- I spoke to Ms. MAtthews -- a
little confusion. But I want to have you all confirm the role that
you choose for us to play as part of the Florida Association of
Counties annual meeting. We talked about this maybe about six weeks
ago. And I'm not really intending for us to do anymore than what we
said, which is we would make staff available to support the
registration desk during the annual meeting. There will be 600 or so
folks coming from all over the state to Marco Island. In years past
we have done far, far more than that. Anything beyond that then we
are just asking for volunteer staff. For example, there is going to
be a noontime cruise for commissioners' spouses, and they wanted to
know if a county staff person could volunteer to be the tour guide in
conjunction with their lunch hour. My answer is yes, if they are
volunteering. I am stopping short of providing county staff people to
assist in the annual golf tournament, or the spouses' shopping spree
to the outlet mall, or any of those other things because you didn't
tell me that you wished for us to be involved in that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm a little bit surprised,
because my initial conversation with the FAC was that they weren't
going to do those very things. They were going to have this big
Thursday night beach event and that was the only thing they were going
to do, so they didn't have need for all this other stuff. But now
we've got conversations going between several people with the FAC,
several people with county staff and it's getting confusing. I think
we need to narrow down who the county people are going to be.
MR. DORRILL: That is why I intend to make a call.
This is for the board. The only other question I had was there was
some confusion or at least we sent out a solicitation and we heard
back from your secretarial staff that they could not volunteer to work
the registration desk as they have in the past. And if for no other
reason that you all are going to be on summer recess, we would like to
be able to ask Ms. Filson if they could help man the registration desk
during the time that you all aren't here.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is this some kind of a revolt?
MS. FILSON: We're already going to be missing one on
vacation, and we've done our part in helping the FAC by sending out
close to 400 letters for the sponsorships. That is the only thing
that I mentioned.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: So logistically, Ms. Filson,
you're only going to have three people here? If you remove one you're
not even going to be able to --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: If you take one more out they
cannot function.
MS. FILSON: I mean, the mail still comes and we have
to do work even though the commissioners aren't here. I could hire a
temporary to take the place of someone to go down and help.
MR. DORRILL: That is fine. We were just having to
lean on department directors to find volunteers. I was told that your
staff had been told that they couldn't volunteer.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No -- mention that luncheon
cruise and --
MR. DORRILL: Or the shopping spree to the outlet mall.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: You know, our staff hasn't been
told that, to my knowledge, but it sounds like logistically it can't
happen.
MR. DORRILL: Unless this board tells me otherwise, we
are limiting our activity to what I said, the registration desk. As
part of that, we've agreed to stuff some goody bags, those little
plastic bags full of trinkets they always hand everybody. And aside
from that, if someone wants to volunteer some of their time on their
lunch hour to be a tour guide or something, then that is fine. But
we're really not doing anymore than that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Are we leaving them in a lurch?
I mean, I am completely uninvolved with FAC. You guys who are, is
that okay?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: In my estimation we are not
leaving them in a lurch. We are doing exactly what they asked for six
weeks ago. It seems what they told us six weeks ago when we agreed to
do and committed to do is somehow been broadened, and I'm not sure
that it is being broadened with the support of the board or even with
the support of the county manager.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm sure that their
intentions are good, and it doesn't hurt to ask, and they've asked,
and unfortunately we're not able to accommodate everything they want.
But we can help them out as best we can. And that is all we can do.
MR. DORRILL: That is all I needed to hear.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to leave.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're adjourned.
***** Commissioner Constantine moved, seconded by Commissioner Hancock,
and carried unanimously, that the following items under the Consent
Agenda be approved and/or adopted 5/0
Item #16A1
RESOLUTION 95-343 LIEN RESOLUTION RE COMPLIANCE SERVICES CASE NO.
40928-052; OWNER OF RECORD - EURO ATILIO ROMERO
See Pages
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 95-344 LIEN RESOLUTION RE COMPLIANCE SERVICES CASE NO.
41202-010; OWNER OF RECORD - JOHANNA M. PRINDIVILLE
See Pages
Item #16A3
RESOLUTION 95-345 LIEN RESOLUTION RE COMPLIANCE SERVICES CASE NO.
50105-031, 50105-30; OWNER OF RECORD - BRIAN MILLER
See Pages
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 95-346 LIEN RESOLUTION RE COMPLIANCE SERVICES CASE NO.
50118-015; OWNER OF RECORD - PATRICIA E. REUTHER
See Pages
Item #16A5
RESOLUTION 95-347 LIEN RESOLUTION RE COMPLIANCE SERVICES CASE NO.
50123-075, 50123-070; OWNER OF RECORD - E. B. BASSICHIS, ET UX
See Pages
Item #16A6
APPROVE RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "PELICAN HARSH UNIT EIGHT" -
WITH STIPULATIONS
See Pages
Item #16A7
ACCEPTANCE OF AN ALTERNATE SECURITY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NO. 59.436
"ORANGETREE PHASE C - LAKE 1-3" LOCATED IN SECTION 14, T485, R27E
See Pages
Item #16A8
AUTHORIZATION FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT TO AWARD CONTRACT TO THE WORKS TREE
SERVICE, INC., FOR THE ABATEMENT OF DEBRIS RELATED TO THE FINAL
HURRICANE CLEANUP - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $10,500.00
Item #16B1
REFUND OF OVERPAYMENT OF ROAD IMPACT FEE IN THE A_MOUNT OF $18,746.80
FOR THE STONEBRIDGE COUNTY CLUB AND AUTHORIZE PAYMENT
Item #1682
APPROVAL OF ANNUAL REBATE TO QUAIL WEST, LTD., IN THE A_MOUNT OF
$35,741.00 AND APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR PROCESSING AND
REIMBURSEMENT IN ACCORDANCE WITH APPROVED ROAD IMPACT FEE AGREEMENT
Item #16D1
APPROVAL OF AGREEMENT PREHITTING THE QUAIL CREEK PROPERTY OWNERS'
ASSOCIATION AND ITS HYDROLOGIST TO CONDUCT A PUMPING TEST OF A COUNTY
WELL LOCATED AT QUAIL CREEK COUNTRY CLUB
See Pages
Item #16D2
CANCELLATION OF AGREEMENTS FOR ROSS AND MARY PARRACK, LOUISE A.
ROBINSON AND KENT D. STEELE
See Pages
Item #16D3
SATISFACTIONS OF NOTICE OF PROMISE TO PAY AND AGREEMENT TO EXTEND
PAYMENT OF WATERAND/OR SEWER IMPACT FEES FOR LINDA H. DAVIS, FREDAHAE
SMITH FARMER AND CHRIS AND HICHELLE HARTIN, HAROLD FEUSER AND KEVIN
FEUSER, THOMAS AND MARY GAINER, REYNALDO AND CAROLINA GUTIERREZ,
WOODROW R. JEPSEN TRUSTEE, AND TIMOTHY J. STRESEN-REUTER
See Pages
Item #16El
APPROVAL OF A LIMITED USE LICENSE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, COLLIER COUNTY AND THE EAST NAPLES CIVIC ASSOCIATION,
INC., FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONDUCTING A GARAGE SALE
See Pages
Item #16F1
AUTHORIZATION OF THE PURCHASE OF RADIOS FOR THE EMERGENCY MEDICAL
SERVICES DEPARTMENT - FROM ERICSSON COMMUNICATION IN THE AMOUNT OF
$9,339.50
Item #16G1
WAIVER OF LANDFILL TIP FEES FOR DISPOSAL OF DEBRIS FROM A FIRE THAT
DESTROYED THE HOME OF THE CURTIS ANDERSON FAMILY
Item #16G2
CERTIFICATES OF CORRECTION TO THE 1992, 1993, 1994 AND 1995 SOLID WASTE
COLLECTION SPECIAL ASSESSMENT ROLLS
See Pages
Item #16G3
RESOLUTION 95-348 ADDITION OF UNITS TO THE 1995 COLLIER COUNTY
MANDATORY SOLID WASTE COLLECTION SPECIAL ASSESSMENT ROLL
See Pages
Item #16G4
ACCEPTANCE OF DRAINAGE EASEMENTS AND A TEMPORARY ACCESS EASEMENT FROM A
PROPERTY OWNER LOCATED IN TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, SECTION 23
AND ADJANCENT PROPERTY OWNER LOCATED IN TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25
EAST, SECTION 22 WHICH WILL ALLOW THE STORMWATER MANAGMENT DEPARTMENT
THE AUTHORITY TO MAINTAIN AN EXISTING CANAL THAT RUNS EAST AND WEST
ALONG THE NORTH SECTION OF THESE TWO (2) PROPERTIES
Item #16H1
AMEND THE BUDGET IN THE AMOUNT $55,400.00 FOR FUND 109 TO PROVIDE FOR
ADDITIONAL OPERATING EXPENSES AND CONTRACT LABOR FOR THE PELICAN BAY
SERVICES DIVISION
Item #16H2
APPROVAL OF WORK ORDER UNDER THE CURRENT ANNUAL PROFESSIONAL AGREEMENT
FOR ENGINEERING SERVICES TO THE DESIGN OF THE ENCLOSURE OF THE CHLORINE
STORAGE AREA AT THE SOUTH REGIONAL WATER TREATHENT PLANT
See Pages
Item #16H3
AUTHORIZATION TO OBLIGATE FUNDS FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES REQUIRED
DURING THE BIDDING AND CONSTRUCTION PHASES OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BEACH
RESTORATION PROJECT - IN THE AMOUNT OF $619,100.00
Item #16H4
APPROVE IN CONCEPT THE PROPOSED WIGGINS PASS INLET MANAGEMENT PLAN AND
REQUEST REVIEW BY THE STATE OF FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION
Item #16H5
APPROVAL OF CHANGE ORDER NO. 4 ON THE IHMOKALEE RECREATION CENTER
Item #16H6
APPROVE FUNDING FOR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SERVICES RELATIVE TO
MASTER PUMP STATION 1.04
Item #16H7
AWARD CONTRACT TO SURETY CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF
$146,565.00 TO CONSTRUCT THE NORTH NAPLES EHS HEDIC #10 ADDITION
PROJECT (BID 95-2374)
Item #16H8
RESOLUTION 95-349 AND RESOLUTION 95-350 RE EXPENDITURES FOR THE 1995 AT
YOUR SERVICE GOVERNMENT DAY AND FOR THE KANDU (PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
TELEPHONE LINE)
See Pages
Item #16A9
TRANSFER OF CASH RECEIPTING FUNDING, EQUIPMENT AND THREE BUDGETED
POSITIONS FOR 2800 NORTH HORSESHOE DRIVE BUILDING FROM THE CLERK TO THE
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE UNDER THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
Item #16A10
CONTRACT WITH NORTH NAPLES LITTLE LEAGUE TO FUND A DUATHLON AND
SOFTBALL TOURNAMENT FOR $7,000.00 WITH TOURIST TAX REVENUES
See Pages
Item #16J
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Item #16J1
CERTIFICATES OF CORRECTION TO THE TAX ROLLS AS PRESENTED BY THE
PROPERTY APPRAISER'S OFFICE
1994
Tangible Personal Property
No. Dated
131/132 05/12-05/16/95
1994
Real Property
i6i/i62
Item #16K1
05/i0-05/ii/95
ENDORSEHENT OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA'S DEPARTHENT OF COHMUNITY AFFAIRS'
ANTI-DRUG ACT FORMULA GRANT PROGRAM APPLICATION
See Pages
Item #16K2
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE SATISFACTION OF LIEN DOCUMENTS FILED AGAINST
PROPERTY FOR ABATEMENT OF PUBLIC NUISANCE
See Pages
Item #16K3
AGREEMENT WITH BARNETT BANK AND HCHILLER REPORTING SERVICES, INC. TO
CLARIFY PROPERTY RIGHTS AND SECURITY INTERESTS
Se Pages
Item #16L1
SATISFACTION OF THE AGREEMENT FOR EXTENDED PAYMENT OF RIGGS ROAD PAVING
ASSESSMENT WITH JAMES AND MARY CODE
See Pages
Item #16L2
RESOLUTION 95-351 APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF LIENS FOR CERTAIN
RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS FOR THE 1993 SOLID WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL
SERVICES SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS
See Pages
Item #16L3
RESOLUTION 95-352 APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR ACCOUNT NO.
4048 FOR THE 1993 SOLID WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
ASSESSMENT LIEN
See Pages
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3:04 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
BETTYE J. MATTHEWS, CHAIRPERSON
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on
presented or as corrected
as
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING
BY: Rose Witt and Catherine H. Hoffman