BCC Minutes 05/09/1995 R REGULAR MEETING OF HAY 9, 1995,
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners
in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of
Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts
as have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:03 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following
ALSO PRESENT:
members present:
CHAIRPERSON:
VICE CHAIRMAN:
Bettye J. Hatthews
John C. Norris
Timothy J. Constantine
Timothy L. Hancock
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
W. Neil Dotrill, County Hanager
Kenneth B. Cuyler, County Attorney
Sue Filson, Administrative Assistant
Deputy Paul Canady
Item #2A
AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Call to order the May 9 meeting of the
Board of County Commission for Collier County. Mr.
Dotrill, would you lead us in an invocation and pledge?
MR. DORRILL: Heavenly Father, as always, we give thanks this
morning for the wonder and privilege that we have to live in what
is one of the most beautiful parts of the world here in Collier County.
Father, we give thanks for the wonderful quality of life that we enjoy,
and we give thanks for the commitment of local government to make this
a beautiful and affordable place in which to live or retire and enjoy
raising a family.
Father, this morning especially we want to give thanks for those
citizens in our community who were part of the commitment to end the
terror of World War II and the victory that we celebrate today on this
the 50th anniversary.
Father, as always, we pray that you guide the deliberations of
this county commission and that you would bless our time here together
today, and we pray these things in your Son's holy name. Amen.
(The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Dorrill, are there changes to the
agenda?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, ma'am. There's two changes today, and then I
have some communication items that I'll hold until the end.
I have one add-on item under proclamations and presentations. It
will be item 4A(3) to be accepted by Jesse Costin, and it's the
National Food Drive Week. That would be 4A(3).
And then I have one other item that would be under the county
commission's portion of the agenda which is 10A which is a discussion
item concerning the county manager's ordinance at the request of
Commissioner Hac'Kie. And I don't have any other changes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
have changes?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
Thank you. Commissioner Norris, do you
Nothing further.
Commissioner Hancock?
No, ma'am.
Commissioner Mac'Kie?
Just a brief explanation about the 10A item
that I've asked to be added about the county manager's ordinance. This
is at the request of the League of Women Voters in a discussion that I
had with their representatives over the weekend where they asked that
we discuss what I would call putting the teeth back in the county
manager's ordinance, nothing to do with Neil's contract, nothing -- you
know, Commissioner Matthews, of course, in deference to the scheduling
of that item, this is completely separate from Neil Dotrill in
particular but a generic discussion at the request of the League of
Women Voters.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Mr. Cuyler.
MR. CUYLER: Madam Chairman, on a separate issue, under
9A, I'm not going to change that. I'm going to go ahead and leave
that on the agenda. That is a discussion of certain motions to
dismiss on a quasi-judicial hearing we have scheduled for next week.
I do want to leave that on to discuss in general where we're going and
what it looks like on this item.
The moving party, the motion maker on this are Mr.
Gibson's attorneys. Mr. Anderson asked me to put on the record they
object to it not being heard today, but that's my decision not to have
it heard today. I think it's better heard next week. He said that if
I would put that on the record, he wouldn't get up and take your time.
So that's on the record.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Fine. Mr. Constantine.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I'm going to ask if we
can take our regular scheduled lunch break at 11:50. I have a 12 noon
meeting I need to be at that should only last about 45 minutes so we
can still be back in an hour, but I just wondered if we can do it then
rather than noon.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And there's -- There's another
conflict too. Commission Hac'Kie also is requesting that we take a
break at one o'clock.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have to be at my daughter's
school at 1:30. I expect that to last about an hour.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Sounds like a two-hour lunch to
me.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's see where the agenda takes
us and what we can work with it, if we've got some natural breaks
there. We'll move ahead with the CAFR discussion this afternoon. It
looks like it's going to be a three or four o'clock day anyway.
The only item that I would like to add to the agenda
would be under communications this afternoon, and that's a discussion
of the ordinance and the voting parameters established for the Citizen
Advisory Council reviewing the Growth Management Plan. It seems to be
-- Things have gotten a little unwieldy in the wording for that
ordinance. So that's a discussion item. If there's no further
changes, I'd like a motion.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
consent agenda?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK:
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
So moved.
To approve the agenda and the
Yes.
Second.
We have a motion and a second to
approve the agenda and the consent agenda as amended.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: All those in favor please say
aye.
Motion passes 5-0.
Item #3
MINUTES OF THE BCC REGULAR MEETING OF APRIL 18, 1995 AND THE SPECIAL
MEETING OF APRIL 19, 1995 - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Madam Chairman, I would like to
make a motion we approve the minutes of the April 18 regular meeting
and April 19 special meeting.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is there a second?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the minutes of April 18 and 19. All those in favor please say
aye.
Motion passes 5-0.
Item #4A1
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MAY 10, 1995 AS SOCIAL SECURITY EMPLOYEE
RECOGNITION DAY - ADOPTED
Next on the agenda are proclamations and service awards.
First Commissioner Norris for "Social Security Employee Recognition
Day."
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you, Madam Chairman. Is Jack
Fordham here for this today? MR. FORDHAM: Yes.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: There you are. Okay. Would you
MR. FORDHAM: Do you want to have me come right here or
what?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Come right up here and --
MR. FORDHAM: All right.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- face the camera there and get
on national TV here.
MR. FORDHAM: All right. Can't beat that, can you?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We're feeding this in to CNN, you
know.
"Whereas, in honor of the employees of the Social
Security Administration office located in Collier County, Florida; and
"Whereas, 45,200 persons in Collier County receive
Social Security benefits that total $32,016,000 monthly; and
"Whereas, 200 persons in Collier County are provided a
wide range of services each business day by employees of the Social
Security office; and
"Whereas, the aforementioned services are provided at a
very low cost by dedicated Social Security employees whose numbers
have not increased in ten years; and
"Whereas, said employees are involved in other
worthwhile services in Collier County that include outreach efforts,
informational radio programs, presentations to community groups and
organizations, volunteer work and educational projects; and
"Whereas, without these employees, the residents of
Collier County would be inconvenienced and sometimes unable to
accomplish all that now occurs on their behalf.
"Now therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that the day of May 10,
1995, be designated as 'Social Security Employee Recognition Day.'
Done and ordered this 9th day of May 1995."
Madam Chairman, I'll make a motion that we accept this
proclamation.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second that motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
accept the proclamation. All those in favor please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0.
MR. FORDHAM: Thank you very much.
Thank you, Commissioners, for offering me the
opportunity to speak. I don't want to bore this audience that's here
for important business with anything I have to say personally, but I
would like to ask the employees that I was able to bring with me today
to stand.
Thank you. I want you to know that these people and
those like them that unfortunately could not come because of pressing
business are the people that make this Social Security office the very
finest of the United States, and we're very proud to be here in
Collier County. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioners.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you.
Item #4A2
EFFORTS AND COST SAVINGS OF THOSE PARTICIPANTS IN THE COUNTY'S
ADOPT-A-ROAD PROGRAM - RECOGNIZED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Next item on the agenda is a
recommendation to recognize the efforts and cost savings of the
county's Adopt-A-Road Program. Commissioner Constantine.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: George, maybe you can help me
with this. We have over 35 firms in the county who help us out with
the Adopt-A-Road Program. You may have seen the signs along the side
of the road, a big blue sign that says the name of the firm, who was
helping out. Twenty-five of those have been with us two years or
more.
And just to give you some idea of how much that assists
us in our cleanup effort, they put in a total of over 8,500 hours
annually doing that. If you start doing the math on that, that's
about 175,000 bucks a year that -- of value that is put in. So we
want to make sure that those companies are getting the appropriate
recognition and I want to go through -- We have a list here and
certificates for each of those companies who have been working with
us. And, George, maybe you can help me as we go through here. I'm
going to work from these because we're -- we're going to go backwards
from the folks who have been with us the longest.
Since 1990, we have a couple of folks. Damico Realty,
Citizens Association of Bonita Beach, and Strive. If we could have
all three of you come on up. That's since 1990, so all three of those
groups have been with us five years now.
Since 1991 -- These -- The original three set a pretty
good precedent. We had a whole pile join us in 1991, including Barton
Collier High School, Global Title Company, Golden Gate Estates Area
Civic Association. Those who are here are more than welcome to come
up and get your certificate. Golden Gate Moose Lodge 1654, Long John
Silvers.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Come on, George.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Come on.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: George, I've never known you
to be shy before. Marco Island Lions Club, the Marco Island Volunteer
Firefighters, Margood R.V. Resort, Naples Detachment Marine Corp
League, Philippine American Association, the Pilot Club of Marco
Island, The Pines, David Lawrence Center, and I slipped by Long John
Silvers, Damico Realty again.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: They have two roads?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: They may well. And the
remainder here, at least since 1992, Built-Well Fence Company, Capital
Homes. You guys are just taking home a whole pile here. Dehart Alarm
System; William P. Gutierrez, D.C.; Dr. Luc Mazzini, D.D.S.; Florida
Council on Crime and Delinquency -- got the kids out there cleaning up
streets -- Golden Gate Contractors Association; Immokalee High School
Interact Club; Pilot Club of Naples; the Red Lobster; Rudy Ranch; and
Truly Nolen.
It's kind of nice. I think this is very much -- I think
this is very much indicative of the pride our people have in our own
community. They're willing to get out there and spend a Saturday or a
Sundays or many Saturdays and Sundays cleaning up their own
communities. So thank y'all very much.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: I think many times the only
evidence, other than having clean right-of-ways, is if you ever drive
by the sign and you see there's seven garbage bags all at the bottom
of the sign, they've been there. So it's terrific to see that.
Item #4A3
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING THE WEEK OF HAY 7-13, 1995 AS NALC NATIONAL
FOOD DRIVE WEEK - ADOPTED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Commissioner
Constantine. The next item on the agenda is another proclamation
dealing in the National Association of Letter Carriers. Is that what
that is?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That is correct.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: It's my pleasure this morning.
Is Jesse Costin, president of National Association of Letter Carriers
here? Branch 4716, to give you full and total credit there. Jesse,
if you'd just come up and stand here at my left and face all of your
public fans out there.
"Whereas, letter carriers deliver to and have personal
contact with every address nationwide; and
"Whereas, Collier County organizations who feed the
less fortunate in our area need donations of non-perishable food items
for local distribution; and
"Whereas, 32 million pounds of food were collected in
1994, the largest food drive in the nation, the National Association
of Letter Carriers in cooperation with the Southwest Area Local of the
American Postal Workers Union and the National Rural Letter Carriers
Association and Postal Management are sponsoring the 1995 NALC
National Food Drive to collect food directly from residents on HAy 13,
1995; and
"Whereas, the Collier County residents have been
encouraged to participate by leaving non-perishable food items at
their mailboxes for collection by their letter carriers. The food
items will be given to Collier Harvest who will then distribute it to
charitable organizations within Collier County.
"Now therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that the week of HAy 7
through the 13th, 1995, be designated as 'NALC National Food Drive
Week.'
"Done and ordered this 9th day of HAy 1995. Signed by
Bettye J. Matthews, Chairman."
Madam Chairman, I would like to make a motion to approve
this proclamation designating HAy 7 through the 13th as"NALC National
Food Drive Week."
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I second the motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
accept the proclamation. All those in favor please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Jesse's going to give us some
instructions on how to participate here.
MR. COSTIN: First of all, I'd like to thank you for
this opportunity to make the whole county aware of what we're trying
to do. Real quick, once again, it's a national food drive. It's held
once a year. It's usually in May, and it's the same date throughout
the United States. And, as I said, we collected 86 billion pounds
last year. We hope to better that this year.
Anytime -- Any kind of help that you can give as far as
spreading the word that it will be this Saturday. We ask you to set
the food, not necessarily in the mailbox. It's non-perishable food,
so if you just have it in bags which makes it much easier for the
carrier to pick up and just set it beside your mail box, and then
we'll pick it up and we'll have Collier Harvest -- we've worked real
close with them, and we have distribution to all the -- They're going
to take care of the distribution along with the people who have trucks
and stuff like that to get it to the central points.
So, again, I appreciate it very much. Any help that we
can get as far as spreading the word to your condo associations --
we've contacted the newspapers and radio stations, so that word should
be getting out but we can -- All the help we can get, we'd really
appreciate it.
I would like to recognize my chairman who has been
taking care of this. I'm up here, but she's done all the work. Linda
Kelly back there, she's done 99 percent of the work in trying to get
this thing together so I really appreciate her.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you very much.
Item #4B
EMPLOYEE SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Next item on the agenda are
service awards. Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is John Hall here? If you'd come
forward. I'm honored to present to Mr. Hall today from Facilities
Management a certificate thanking him and recognizing him for 15 years
of service to Collier County.
Also if Peggy Jartell -- Am I pronouncing that
correctly? Did I get it right? We'd like to thank Peggy Jartell for
five years of service in the Building Review and Permitting
Department.
Also Richard Grigg. Mr. Grigg, we'd like to thank you
for five years of service in Transportation Services Administration.
And, finally, Steve Rasmussen, if you're here -- We'd
like to thank Mr. Rasmussen for five years of service at the Waste
Water North plant.
Item #4C1
KEVIN HILL, AGRICULTURE EXTENSION, RECOGNIZED AS EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
FOR MAY, 1995
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Next item on the agenda, it gives
me great pleasure to once again, as we do each month, recognize our
employee of the month. This month it is Kevin Hill. You want to come
forward, Mr. Hill.
As he's coming forward, I'll begin to tell you a little
bit about what Mr. Hill has done because he's done quite a lot since
he's been employed with Collier County Agricultural Department since
1984. Spin around so we can all see what you look like.
He's a recognized leader in the livestock agent beef
industry. He's got a strong -- He has developed a strong relationship
with the Cattlemens Association and with the Southwest Florida
Research and Education Center. He's a presenter of programs,
seminars, field days, and demonstrations, and I hear he does it quite
well.
He's proficient at computerized graphics, versatile in
the Internet. He's learned it before a lot of us have. He's also
been published. A very, very busy man. He works well with the
4-H'ers, and he works with the Horse Advisory Group as well as the
Livestock Advisory Group in his persistent dedication as it's been
seen each year, is one of the reasons those programs are so very
successful at our fair. He has consistent superior ratings, and his
peer group has chosen him as May's employee of the month.
I want to congratulate you, Kevin. We have a few things
here for you. First, we have a plaque. I'd like to read it to you.
Collier County Board of County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida,
Employee of the Month, official recognition and appreciation is
tendered to Kevin Hill for exceptional performance, May of 1995.
In addition to that, we have a letter which says pretty
much the same thing, that it's indeed a pleasure to announce and
recognize the dedicated service that you have provided to the county,
and the proverbial fifty-dollar-very-spendable check.
MR. HILL: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
that each month.
That's always a pleasure to do
Item #5A
BUDGET AMENDMENTS 95-244, 95-245, AND 95-279 - ADOPTED
Next item on the agenda as we move into the balance of
the agenda, budget amendments. Mr. Smykowski.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Michael Smykowski, acting budget director. There are three
budget amendments on the budget amendment this morning.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the three budget amendments. Any questions? Those in favor
please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Thank you.
Item #SA1
STAFF DIRECTED TO ADVERTISE FOR A PUBLIC HEARING TO BE HELD JUNE 20,
1995 TO CONSIDER THE ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO A ONE PERCENT
LOCAL GOVERNMENT INFRASTRUCTURE DISCRETIONARY SALES SURTAX TO FUND A
SECOND GORDONE RIVER BRIDGE
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Next item on the
agenda -- There are no public petitions. Into the county manager's
report, the first item is 8A(1), a recommendation that the board
authorize staff to advertise a public hearing. Mr. Perry.
MR. PERRY: Good morning, MAdam Chairman and
Commissioners. For the record, Jeff Perry from the Long-Range
Planning Department staff. The recommendation before you today is
seeking authorization to advertise for public hearing an ordinance and
a companion resolution that would set forth the referendum on
September 26 for the decision on whether or not a sales tax should be
used to construct the second Gordon River bridge.
We're suggesting that June 20 be the public hearing date
for the ordinance. Originally we had suggested the 20th or 27th, and
I understand you're on a vacation period the 27th so we're now -- You
can't get away from it. We're back to the 20th. The draft copy of
the resolution and -- which actually calls the ballot question and the
ordinance which sets forth the creation of the resolution are in your
agenda package for your review and consideration. If you have any
other questions, I'll try to answer them for you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Questions?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Question.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just one question or comment.
When we voted on this issue initially, there was some question and I
clarified. I think Commissioner Hancock made the motion initially to
consider this, and I had asked for clarification at that time, that we
were endorsing the idea of putting it on the ballot. The vote, at
that time anyway, was not a vote in favor or against the sales tax
itself.
Item -- Under section one, item B, it says, "The levy of
this additional 1 percent sales tax is the appropriate way .... this is
one of the findings .... to fund an infrastructure such as .... If that
particular section still sits in there, I'm going to have to vote
against this because that's not my preference. I don't have any
problem putting it on the ballot but I cannot -- I don't find that as
one of my findings. I think you'll still have four votes, but if you
want to remove that, we'll have a 5-0 vote. So we can just take that
under discretion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Do you have another
recommendation for funding then?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, but I don't think at
this point that that's --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's not the appropriate time?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I had just a couple of questions.
On the third page, Jeff, of the ordinance, it references -- it talks
about the distribution of local government infrastructure surtax. It
says that the proceeds will be distributed in one of the following
methods. Either there will be an interlocal agreement, or if there's
not, then the proceeds will be distributed in accordance with this
formula set forth in the statute.
I just wondered if you could -- I don't understand that
part. We need an interlocal agreement to make the distribution, and
what's the time-line for adopting one?
MR. PERRY: The statute provides -- If you don't have an
interlocal agreement, the statute provides that there is a formula for
distributing the revenue. Our suggestion, of course, is that there be
an interlocal agreement, that all of the funds be -- have to be
earmarked for this particular project, so we want to make sure
everyone is in agreement with that proposal and that there's no
secondary distribution of the funds. Otherwise, we'd have the City of
Naples paying for part of the project and the county paying for part
of the project. All of the proceeds are supposed to come to the
county. The county would then be paying for all of the project, and
it's our intention to develop that interlocal agreement.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In the event for some reason I
can't fathom -- but in the event there were -- we were unable to adopt
an interlocal agreement, what's the formula that we're saying? What
does the statute provide for how the funds would be distributed?
MR. PERRY: I'm not sure if it's the same as the -- The
formula for our sales tax or gas tax is the distribution based on
collections of the -- or the expenditures of a period of --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Maybe just if somebody could get
that section.
MR. CUYLER: I think it's the population based formula.
David, do you remember what it is? I think it's a population. We can
find out real quickly.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I think we just
changed it to 11 percent or 13 percent or something. We had lowered
it from 18 to 13 or something last year because of population.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. CUYLER: While your public speakers are talking,
I'll get that for you.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. It would just be nice to
read that. Just -- I mean, we know that there's not unanimous support
for this issue on the city council, and I guess it's conceivable that
we could fail to get an interlocal agreement. So it makes me -- I'd
just like to know what the alternative distribution plan is.
And the other question I had is about section five. Is
it possible instead of saying that, "The Board of County Commissioners
shall enact an ordinance repealing this ordinance after September 30,
1996," is it possible to enact that ordinance now so that there is
more comfort in the community that it's dead?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Why can't we sunset this? I
thought that's what its purpose was.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't want to enact this
ordinance repealing the tax in the future. I want people to know when
they vote on it, that it is repealed effective September 30, 1996.
MR. WEIGEL: This is David Weigel, assistant county
attorney. The provision in there concerning the repeal is after
September 30 -- for instance, if the referendum fails, it would be
appropriate for the ordinance to be removed. And this is merely
assurance, a form of insurance placed in this draft ordinance so that
the public, everyone will understand that the law that may be enacted
on June 20 specifically provides that this ordinance will not continue
to exist after that specific date.
MR. CUYLER: We haven't found any reason though. You're
saying you want some mandatory language that will sunset it. I don't
think we have any legal reason why we can't put that language in if
that's what your preference is.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's my suggestion anyway.
Let's not have to take further action. Let's take it today.
MR. WEIGEL: Some of the various elements in this
ordinance are drafted purely in the draft phase without putting any
presuppositions of intent or nuances, and that's what we're looking
for today in that regard.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. That -- My only other
comment so far has to do with the ballot language itself. The first
time I've been so specifically misquoted, Michael Cody, it's exactly
the opposite of what I said. Mr. Pennington suggested that the
ordinance should include the location of the bridge. I, in fact,
disagree with that, but would agree to bring to you Mr. Pennington's
suggestion.
But I do, in fact, have a question about the ballot
language. How necessary -- I'm troubled by the language"including
design and engineering costs incurred after adoption of the ordinance
but prior to January 1, 1996." I would think, Mr. Weigel or Mr.
Cuyler, that we -- that that's not necessary to be -- to appear on the
ballot in order for that to occur, and that seems to me complicating
and confusing. If it's absolutely necessary, okay. But if it can be
done without inclusion of the language, that's my preference.
MR. CUYLER: We think that you have a good argument. In
our discussions with the financial people and bond counsel and
discussions amongst ourselves, the clearer that can be, the better in
terms of the legal defense of any cause of action that might accrue as
a result of our use of the monies for that purpose. So we felt that
the clearer we could be that the voters were not only approving the
specific funding but they are also approving -- they understand
they're approving those design and engineering costs; although,
frankly, I do think that you have an argument anyway.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think --
MR. CUYLER: The question is can you bolster it a little
bit. Can you make it a clearer.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: For my vote, I think that the
bolstering is useful but not necessary and that the confusion
resulting from adding that language to the ballot question outweighs
the bolstering effect. So I -- My suggestion will be that we remove
that and just end it with "to fund the project costs for the
construction of a second Gordon River bridge," period.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I would agree with that.
MR. CUYLER: If you would like -- If that's what the
board wants to do, since you're not actually adopting this today, why
don't we get some clearer information on that. If we can do that,
we'll try to go that way. If we can't, then we'll let you know at the
appropriate hearing.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We can --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We can decide on this at the
public hearing? So we don't have to do it today. One easy way to
amend that might be to say, "to fund the project costs including
design and engineering costs for the construction of a second Gordon
River bridge," and just end it there, and that should cover everything
that you're concerned with and be a whole lot less confusing to the
public.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That was one of my questions with
the wording Commissioner Hac'Kie brought up, is if we just include the
construction, what do we do about all the costs for design,
engineering, and so forth? So we need to cover that.
MR. PERRY: Madam Chairman, this specific language was
to address those costs that might be incurred prior to the election.
You'll recall that we were directed to proceed with some portions of
preliminary design prior to there being a referendum, and this was to
ensure that we had some sort of language in there that realized that
-- voters realized that they were not only paying for the costs
incurred after they voted but there would be a reimbursement of some
costs out of that collection that occurred prior to them voting, and
that was the reason for that language. We prefer it to be clearer,
but that was the best we could come up with at the time as to how to
try to put that in the ballot question.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes. I have a discussion
question for Mr. Constantine and then a quick comment. I understand
your point of contention regarding the state of the appropriate way.
What I'd like to ask is, in essence, we're asking the voters if, in
fact, this is the appropriate way. We're asking for their opinion. If
they vote no on this, they're saying it's not the appropriate -- and I
understand your feeling of not wanting to support something that
appears as if you are going against your beliefs.
Would it make a little more sense for you to change that
to "an additional 1 percent sales tax is an appropriate way"? And the
reason I'm asking is, is that I think that someone who is looking at
this needs to understand that by supporting it, they're saying that it
is, in fact, an appropriate way. It may not be the only way. You
know, there may be other ways out there. But I'd like to see that
language state in there in some form, but I certainly don't want to
lose your support on this going ahead.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The -- I guess if we can put
that elsewhere, perhaps in the resolution as opposed to in the
ordinance under findings because findings are, in essence, findings of
fact, and that is we find that in the ordinance as opposed to the
resolution and the ballot question. If we can shift that wording
somewhere over to the resolution under, you know, form of the ballot
or what have you, that's one thing. I guess under findings is why I'm
uncomfortable, where it appears and in the context that is then read
in is that we find that's factual.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. I understand. I just want
to make just one quick comment. I know we have some public speakers;
is that correct, Mr. Dotrill?
MR. DORRILL: We have a couple.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: The discussion today is solely,
as I understand it, on the wording of the ballot referendum and the
findings that we're either going to approve or not approve today. I
really don't want this to become a -- a --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're just approving --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- rehashing.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're just approving a public
hearing today.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So I just want to make that
statement and ask the chairman to restrict that appropriately.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. We are only, I believe,
approving a public hearing today; is that correct?
MR. CUYLER: Correct. As a matter of fact --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're not approving the ordinance
or the resolution.
MR. CUYLER: There will be another public hearing at
which anyone who wants to can make comments. This is just direction
to set it up and notice to you and the public that we're going
forward.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So the discussion is only
reasons you are for or against having a public hearing. The discussion
is not for --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The tax.
MR. CUYLER: For all practical --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- or against the tax.
MR. CUYLER: For all practical purposes, yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie, you had
further discussion?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I can hold it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's move to the public hearing.
MR. DORRILL: We have nine.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Public comment. We have nine?
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Taylor. Following Ms. Taylor, Mr.
Lee, if I could have you stand by, please, sir.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I am going to ask the people
speaking today if they will confine their comment to whether the
public hearing should participate because you have the opportunity to
come back on June the 20th to express your displeasure with it being
on the ballot or what have you when we -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Or support.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- or support when we discuss the
ordinance itself.
MS. TAYLOR: Displeasure with me standing here. You must
be able to read my mind. So what I'm going to speak on is whether I
think there should be a public hearing; is that correct?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yes.
MS. TAYLOR: And I do not think there should be a public
hearing because I don't think there's been proper preparation. The
wording of the ordinance, as I understand, talks about the design,
engineering, construction of the bridge. It does not talk about the
cost of the mitigation of traffic in our entire city. You're leaving
the location of the bridge out of the ordinance, so we have to assume
that it could go at Central, it could go at Ninth, depending. It's
very vague right now. We are talking about a tremendous impact of
traffic in our city. We're talking about -- We have councilmen
talking about buying homes. If you do not include the cost of the
mitigation of traffic in our city and have come forward with the plan
and can show that you've hired experts to talk about what this traffic
is going to do in Naples, we, the city taxpayers, are going to be
double taxed because we're going to have to pay for it again. Thank
you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Mr. Cuyler, there's
been some discussion -- at least I've been hearing some discussion
both in the newspaper and on the radio about whether the location
should be included in the ordinance. What is your opinion on that?
MR. CUYLER: From the legal perspective, I think that
the -- what you need to understand is that if you have a location in
the ballot question, then you are tied to that location. If you just
have the funding of a Gordon River bridge, you are not tied to a
specific location. That gives you some flexibility if you want to
have the flexibility.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Then in your opinion --
MR. CUYLER: But legally it could be either way.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Well, I'm trying to
clarify the discussion I've been listening to. And that is, in your
opinion, if we have a vote on the sales tax with notification of a
specific location, then, in your opinion, this is not -- cannot be
challenged unless we change the location?
MR. CUYLER: I'm of the opinion that unless the location
is in the ordinance and in the ballot question, then you have the
ability to change the location.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's not the question I'm
asking.
MR. CUYLER: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The question I'm asking is, if
the ordinance contains the location of the bridge -- there's been some
discussion that if it contains that, that the ordinance and the
question can be challenged.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I clarify that?
MR. CUYLER: No. I'm --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just I've met with the city
council yesterday so you're aware, and that issue came up in the city
council's workshop. The city attorney's opinion was that in the event
the location of the bridge is included in the referendum language,
that it complicates the question, that it could subject a positive --
it could subject the adoption of the tax to more scrutiny and open it
to more significant challenge. That was the advice she gave to city
council, and I said thank you and would be checking with our attorneys
too.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That was a legal challenge,
Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A legal challenge.
MR. CUYLER: The only way that I would agree with that
is from the same perspective that you were just addressing, what is in
the question, and that is when you put any additional factors in
there, I guess to some extent, you know, you can say that that opens
it up a little bit for more challenge. But generally no. I mean, the
fact that the location's in there, if you said, "Do you hereby vote
for a bridge at this location," no, I don't think that there's
anything illegal about that. I don't think that subjects you to more
of a challenge. The only thing that it does, again, is if you say,
"Do you vote for it in'X' location," and someone decides, "No. I
want it at 'Y' location" later, you're tied to the "X" location.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It seems to me that what we're
looking here to do is to determine from the voters if the sales tax is
the appropriate funding method. The location is something else again
but --
MR. CUYLER: That is what we have viewed it as in the
drafting of these documents.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Unfortunately, as I hear the
grumblings, I get the feeling that there's an opinion that we're
trying some big bait and switch, and I wish I were that intelligent
but I'm not.
The simple reason that many Lake Park residents are here
to object to this today is the same reason why the exact location
should not be in it, and let me explain that. If we find that the
location that the joint council and commission approve, if we cannot
sufficiently mitigate the traffic impacts to Lake Park, we need an
option. That option may not be the southern alignment but the other
northern alignment which I tried very much to explain was better for
Lake Park than the one that was chosen because we can control and
divert the traffic from using Seventh.
So there are two northern options here. It's not a
north versus south. And I don't want to restrict us to the one single
option that was chosen for the simple purpose that I don't think the
mitigation for Lake Park can be as effective for that choice. I think
it was alignment number four that ran directly into Seventh where it
could be diverted was better for Lake Park. So I just -- I caution
you against speaking against something that could eventually work
against Lake Park. And that's just my only comment on that and I '-
I'm sure we'll have more discussion on that at a later date.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's move forward with
additional public comment.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Lee was next. And then I have Mr.
Corkran, if I could have you be ready, sir.
MR. LEE: For the record, Arthur Lee, Ninth Avenue
North. I echo Ms. Taylor's sentiments. The discussion you just had
and ones that I've been subjected to recently indicate that there's a
good deal of prematurity in this thing. It shows a very definite lack
of study. We have snake oil salesmen who are saying, you know, "We
swear. You'll never lose a dollar," or"We'll buy your home and give
it to people who are not as discriminating as you are," or, "You're
not going to have a traffic problem, but here's a roundabout. Here's
a stop sign. Here's a stop and go." All of this means that this
requires a wail of a lot more study, not only on the -- from a traffic
count standpoint but from the standpoint of mitigation. There's going
to be a wail of a lot of mitigation. This has not been studied. It's
not been funded. So we're dealing here in futures that I think are
very, very wobbly. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Corkran and then I believe Mr. Case.
MR. CORKRAN: For the record, Sewell Corkran, Ninth
Avenue South, Naples. Madam Chairman, Commissioners, before I get to
my point, I want to tell you a brief background story. This Sunday I
met with some people to include the chief honcho, Ed Windstar, people
on the county's side of the U.S. 41 bridges. And in spite of my
efforts, they had no idea where I was coming from. And I said, "Guys,
what do you think about the second bridge." And they said, "We're all
for it." And I said,"You've got to be kidding. Why is that?" And
they said, "Well, the second bridge is the only way to cure our
problem of going over the U.S. 41 bridges into Fifth Avenue and down
to the beach." And I said, "Haven't you ever heard of the DOT and
eight-laning that six-tenth mile segment?" And they said, "No. The
only thing we know is there is a proposal for a second bridge, and
that is the only cure we know of for U.S. 41."
To my point now. In my opinion, the official referendum
ballot language as now proposed is disinformation to the public. It's
not what's included in the referendum language. It's what's excluded.
Many county residents do not know the DOT has funded and is ready
and willing, and has been, to improve the U.S. 41 bridges in 1996.
The public just doesn't really know and understand that, and so they
are prepared to vote for a second bridge thinking this is the
salvation for U.S. 41 and there's no other help coming of any kind.
I believe to be fair and honest with the public, that
they ought to know that as part of the second bridge package,
regardless of where it's located -- and that's not my interest at all
-- that the people ought to know as part of that package, the U.S. 41
bridges are being delayed no less than five years. That should be
incorporated, in my opinion, in the language so the public is informed
and not disinformed. And if that's not the proper place, the city
government and the county government ought to undertake a publicity
campaign outside of the ballot language to make certain people know
what they're voting on. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Case, and then we'll have Miss Case
following Chip Case.
MR. CASE: Good morning. My name is Chip Case, and I
live on Central Avenue in Old Naples, and I thank you for this
opportunity to speak. I have a few questions about the ordinance and
the referendum, and then I'm going to try and tie it together.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Case, we've asked people to
try to confine their comments --
MR. CASE: I'm going to try to tie it together.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- And the first three people
have gotten away from it, and I want to bring it back to whether there
should be a public hearing or not.
MR. CASE: Right. And I think these questions will help
clarify these issues for the public to read this because they are
about the ordinance themselves and then a comment on --
The first question is in the ordinance on the first
page, it says, "shall approve a second Gordon River bridge and the
imposition of a 1 percent sales surtax." That "and" logic does not
carry forward into the ballot, and I'm wondering if that's by intent
or what.
The second question I have is, there's a lot of
deliberation about whether or not there's a site stated in here, and
I'm wondering if the commentary around endorse .... respectively endorse
a site for the placement and construction of a second Gordon River
bridge," on April the 6th, does that constitute actually specifying
the location since that location is in the minutes of that meeting.
That's on page one.
And on page three, item C, I assume this is a typo. It
talks about a preliminary engineering report dated May 1995 which
obviously couldn't have been since this was drafted in April. So I
assume that's a typo.
Now, to tie this all together into the issue of whether
or not there should be a public hearing on the 20th, I believe there
should be a public hearing, but I also believe that we should consider
a moratorium on this issue for 90 days, and the reason I say that is
there is no plan. There is no plan for funding. There is no plan for
mitigation. There is no understanding of how the bridge and the
impact of the bridge is going to be integrated into the community on
the west side of the Gordon River.
There has been a lot of consternation, a lot rancor, and
a lot of devices pitting neighborhoods against each other, and this
has to stop. I believe that the only way it can stop is if we step
back and we take an approach and say, look, if the bridge is right,
the voters will vote it. If the bridge is not right, we need to
understand what's wrong with it, and we need to understand how to fix
that. Thank you for your time.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Miss Case. And then Jesse Hinson.
MS. CASE: My name is Kim Case. I also live on Central
Avenue. In order to keep this short, I think it's appropriate to have
a meeting on June 20, but I would reiterate what the people from Lake
Park and what my husband has said. I think it is premature. I think
we have no plan to integrate the traffic that comes off of that second
bridge into the remainder of the city. We have not looked at other
roads. We have not looked at other ways of helping the neighborhoods.
We have not looked at what closing one street would do to other
streets or opening a street that is currently one way when it gets to
41 or adding a new traffic light. We have not studied those things
appropriately. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Hinson.
MR. HINSON: Mr. Dotrill, I'll waive my time.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Keller.
MR. KELLER: George Keller speaking for the people that
are in the county, basically the people from Golden Gate Estates, and
I know that you don't want to get into a discussion as to whether it
should be there or not. You're talking about a public hearing. So in
the first place, the time between the public hearing and the election
is far too short.
Number two, on the June 20 date for the public hearing,
there are going to be a lot of people who pay a lot of taxes in this
county will not be here to speak. So, consequently, I think it's
going to be ineffective to have the public hearing in June. And
there's no emergency on this thing in the first place. The state has
already had plans to go improve the traffic situation on 41. This is
not an emergency.
Number two, this road comes from -- would be taking the
traffic from Radio Road, crisscrossing it all around the place. To
put it into the city, it's going to be a bottleneck. It's not going
to be an advantage at all at the present time. Unless you could go
through the airport property, it would be no advantage at all.
Secondly, it bothers me when special interest groups
like the bridge committee can come and start a process and politics
becomes involved and they get too much preference. I would say that
the bridge group would be better off playing bridge.
Thirdly, I've heard comments about who's going to pay
for this thing, that this is a wonderful deal, get it in September.
Then the tourists will be paying for it. I was on the sales tax
committee, the last sales tax committee. I went over a tremendous lot
of figures, that the county was very generous in supplying accurate
figures. And during the sale -- During the tourist season, during
that quarter, we collected 29 percent of the sales tax which was only
4 percent more than the average quarter. So believe me. Who's going
to pay for this thing? The people in Collier County. And I don't
think the people in Collier County as a whole are going to get enough
advantage for this particular thing unless you can go right through
the airport. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Erlichman. And then Ms. Corkran.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Gilbert Erlichman. I reside in East Naples, and I'm speaking for TAG.
First of all, I would like to thank Commissioner Hac'Kie for
questioning the section five so far as the -- Let me get the -- the
sunset of the tax and making it definite and to be voted on before and
during the ordinance passage. I want to thank you very much, ma'am.
In reading the executive summary on the first page,
there was three interesting paragraphs. Now, this all pertains to the
ordinance, proposed ordinance. It says, "As a result of the city
council and board selection of alternate alignment number four at a
cost of $20.8 million, a nine-month sales tax collection period will
be necessary."
Second paragraph. "Staff estimates that a sales tax
collection period of January 1st, 1996, through September 30, 1996,
will generate sufficient revenues plus interest to fund the
construction of a second Gordon River bridge along the preferred
alignment, alternate number four."
"Additionally, on April 6, 1995, the council and board
agreed to proceed with preliminary engineering, design work after the
adoption of this ordinance but prior to the date of the referendum.
This decision was made with the understanding that there will be no
backup revenue source in the event the sales tax referendum fails on
September 26, 1995; and, therefore ....
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Excuse me, Gil. You're not going
to read the whole --
MR. ERLICHHAN: .... any expenditures incurred ....
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Excuse me, Gil. You're not going
to read the whole staff report to us, are you?
MR. ERLICHHAN: No. No. I'm not reading it. I just
want to reinforce -- to bring your attention to this.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Because we've read this.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We've read it.
MR. ERLICHHAN: You've read it? Okay. Fine. I'd like
to call your attention to section -- section one on page three of the
proposed ordinance. It says, "The City Council of Naples and the
Collier County Commission have selected a preferred alignment for the
second Gordon River bridge based upon an analysis," et cetera et
cetera.
That's section C of -- That's paragraph C of section
one. You have selected a preferred alignment. What is the alignment?
You don't state anywhere else in this ordinance that it's alignment
number four, that it's --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Excuse me, Mr. Erlichman.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Pardon?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're discussing whether a public
hearing should be held on June 20, not the merits of the ordinance
itself. We'll discuss the merits of the ordinance on the June the
20th if we vote to have a public hearing.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Well, I believe that this input is
important, ma'am, and regardless of whether -- I mean, you are going
to hold a hearing whether I say I don't feel that the hearing is
necessary or not. I mean, I think that that statement to limit my
remarks is out of order, in my opinion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's your opinion, sir, but the
question on the agenda is whether there should be a public hearing.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Well, wouldn't you want --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And that's what we'll vote on
today.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Don't you want some input and
information that I as a taxpayer am willing to give you right now?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Gil, we do. Gil, we do but
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We do.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- we try to limit discussion
to whatever the agenda item is. When we talk about the bridge itself
will be June 20 most likely.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Well, okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Then I presume you're opposed --
MR. ERLICHHAN: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- to a public hearing?
MR. DORRILL: Mrs. Corkran is your final speaker.
MS. CORKRAN: Good morning. I'm Virginia B. Corkran.
I'm president of the Old Naples Association. I came to listen, but
after hearing about bait and switch which you yourselves are talking
about, I had to rise to tell you that the Old Naples Association
residents will be just as agitated as the rest of the community if
that, indeed, is what you've set up here by your language and for
consideration at a future public hearing.
Certainly a public hearing is in the interest of good
government, but it seems to me that we are holding a discussion on the
location of the bridge today which is not a publically advertised
item. As the chairman said, it's sort of slopping over, don't you
think? And to that end, I believe in the interest of good government,
this discussion should be -- indeed should be postponed.
I would like to add that the Old Naples Association has
passed a resolution to request you to request the DOT to get going on
the repair and improvement of the existing U.S. 41 bridges. I am
happy to bring that to your attention and urge you to communicate to
the DOT and not hold up those bridges up for five more years or so.
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Commissioner
Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me address a couple of
things that were said by Mr. Keller first, and then I've got some
comments of my own. First of all, you criticized the bridge club for
getting together and pushing this issue. While I favor the bridge, I
don't happen to favor the sales tax, but I would never criticize any
group of citizens who get together and push any issue they want.
That's the beauty of the process here, and whether you and I disagree
with them doesn't matter. Anybody has the opportunity to get up and
share either in this forum or anywhere else get together as a group
and try to push what they believe is the right issue. And that's the
great thing about being in America, and I think we see it probably
here in our little community more than anywhere in the State of
Florida, groups getting together trying to make things happen, whether
it's the Old Naples Homeowners Association or the bridge club or the
Golden Gate Civic Association. So I don't think we can criticize them
for that.
From virtually everyone except Gil that we heard from
today who are both pro or con of the bridge or both pro and con of the
tax, we have heard we need more information, we need more education,
and I think that's the purpose of a public hearing, is to make sure we
get that information out and also that we accept new information in
that either we may not be aware of or that has not been emphasized
properly.
So I think the public hearing is answering what
everyone, again with the possible exception of Gil, has been asking
for.
I'm going to make a motion that we go forward with the
public hearing on June 20, that we direct Mr. Cuyler to put together
the draft of the resolution and ordinance -- draft ordinance and
resolution with a couple of changes -- and I think there may be some
amendments to this -- but a couple of changes as suggested, adding the
specific language on the sunset to make that crystal clear as
Commissioner Mac'Kie suggested, to clear up the ballot wording as it
appears on I think page 11 of our agenda, whatever, page two of the
resolution, and perhaps there we need to lose "including" on and just
put "design, engineering and construction," but I think you know the
basic content of what Commissioner Mac'Kie suggested there.
And, finally, I'd ask that we delete -- simply delete
under section one, item B. And I agree with the other findings which
are simply the Florida Statutes allow us to have a ballot item such as
this; that the commission has selected a -- both the city and the
county has selected a preferred alignment; third, that the MPO has
completed their study; and that the need -- fourth, that the need is
documented. And I think all those are factual. It's the other one I
have a problem with as a finding of fact. So I would ask with all
those three criteria that we go ahead with the June 20 hearing.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Cuyler, you need to add
something?
MR. CUYLER: When you get the second -- we will do that.
Two things I want to point out. First of all, I will assume you
will leave to me the discretion to change anything else from a legal
perspective that I need. We were talking about changing an item as
far as cleaning it up that you won't be concerned about. It's a legal
issue.
And the other thing is obviously at the public hearing,
you have the ability to tweak the ordinance if you deem it appropriate
at that time.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Just a moment. Commissioner
Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: To avoid a misquote or
misstatement since it's already been incorrectly characterized by Hiss
Corkran that I have some intent of applying a bait and switch to this,
that is the opposite of what I said. So I wanted to clarify that for
the record. What I said is, that is not what we're trying to do, and
the appearance is incorrect, and the application is incorrect.
before that went any further, I wanted to clarify that. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to second Commissioners
Constantine's motion and just ask if you would consider instead of
deleting this finding about the appropriate method, if we might be
able to include it and just say that,"The levy of an additional 1
percent sales tax was selected by majority of the board as the
appropriate way."
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's a fact, so I can put
that because that's factual as opposed to this kind of --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's factual.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I can accept that.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: That satisfies my concerns.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Then I would like to second the
motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you, Hiss Chairman. I just
wanted to point out for the record that it's really funny that for
years we've been discussing and studying this issue.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Twenty now.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: And we've been -- We've been
criticized up till today for overstudying the issues, study after
study after study. That's all the criticism we've heard time and time
again, but today things have changed, and now we have people coming up
here and telling us we haven't studied enough and we shouldn't -- we
shouldn't go forward with it because we haven't done enough studies.
I just -- It's humorous to me to see this turn of events all in one
day. So I just wanted to point that out.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. It's well noted.
We have a motion and a second. The motion maker did
accept the amendment; is that correct?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And we have a second. Is there
further discussion?
There being none, I'll call the question. All in favor
please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0.
Did you get all the motion?
MR. CUYLER: (Nodding head)
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess we'll see you all the
20th of June.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Did you restate the motion?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Did I restate it? No, I did not.
Are there -- Okay.
Item #SB1
CULVERT CROSSING REPLACEHENT REPLACEHENT FOR S.R. 29 LOCATED .8 HILE
NORTH OF C.R. 858 - APPROVED
Next item on the agenda is item 8B(1), a recommendation
to approve State Road 29 culvert crossing replacement. Mr. Archibald.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Board members, agenda item 8B(1) is
somewhat unique in that the staff is coming before the board and
requesting approval to perform work on a private crossing that is to
the east of State Road 29 and north of 858. As outlined in the agenda
item, there's a current crossing that is in disrepair. It serves a
small number of owners. And currently the staff is recommending not
only to replace the crossing but upgrade it.
Tentatively we're looking at replacing the 48-inch
crossings with 72-inch crossings. The cost of the county when you
subtract out the cash payments that are proposed by the property
owners and materials to be provided by the property owner, the
out-of-pocket expense to the county is going to be approximately
$14,000 if, in fact, the board directs the staff to go ahead and
proceed with the work as outlined in the agenda item.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there questions? Commissioner
Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Archibald, I note that this
is a private crossing. Is our expenditure for the replacement and
improvement of this crossing simply because -- is it -- is it because
it wasn't sized properly initially? Is it because of other county
actions? In other words, are we or are we not subsidizing an
improvement of private property here o are we doing it for county
benefit? I'm looking for justification of the cost.
MR. ARCHIBALD: The reason -- and, again, I should have
made it very clear -- is that -- The reason the staff is involved and
we're recommending upgrading it is -- in fact, this particular
crossing serves the Immokalee area in regards to drainage, and that
drainage over the years has increased, and what we're looking at is a
need to increase the pipe size from 48-inch to 60- or even up to
72-inch. So we're looking at doing work on private property for a
public purpose, and the public purpose is the drainage system for the
Immokalee area.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve staff
recommendation.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Motion and a second to approve
staff. Is there further discussion?
There being none, I'll call the question. All in favor
please say aye.
Opposed?
Motion passes 5-0. Thank you, Mr. Archibald.
Item #882
ENVIRONHENTAL PERMITTING FOR THE NORTH NAPLES ROADWAY HSTU (LIVINGSTON
ROAD) PROJECT, AND ATTENDANT RECOHMENDATIONS FOR COUNTY PURCHASE OF
REQUIRED MITIGATION LANDS AND PUBLIC/PRIVATE FINANCING OF FINAL HIGHWAY
ENGINEERING - APPROVED WITH STAFF RECOHMENDATION AND STIPULATIONS AS
AMENDED
Item 8B(2), status of environmental permitting on the
North Naples roadway HSTU, otherwise known as Livingston Road.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Board members, this item 8B(2) is really
two items. One is an update to the board following the board's
direction on 20 December to investigate and develop and finalize a
mitigation plan based upon off-site mitigation away from the
Livingston Road corridor itself.
And the second item is to present to the board an option
to implement that mitigation and, in fact, to consider the purchase of
the acreage identified by the permitting agencies that would, in fact,
mitigate the adverse impacts of Livingston Road.
To step back to item one, the South Florida Water
Management District has been involved with the selection of the
422-acre site that's being proposed for mitigation. The location is
approximately three miles to the northwest of the Orangetree
development. It supports the CREW Trust efforts relative to
preserving our wetlands for that particular project, and it meets most
of the mitigation requirements in regards to improving, supporting,
and offsetting the adverse impacts of a future roadway.
So, in fact, the staff is here today to advise the board
that we're really at a very important point in the environmental
permitting of the project itself. We've got over six miles of roadway
at stake, part of our arterial road network that's identified in our
comprehensive plan. And the staff feels that we're not only at a
critical point, but we're also at the point where we may be able to be
take action, proceed with final permitting submittals. And, in fact,
as we've outlined in the agenda item, before the end of the year,
possibly have permits in hand from South Florida Water Management
District, from the Corps, and also the necessary approvals from the
Department of Environmental Pollution Control and various federal
agencies.
Again, we've had correspondence from particularly South
Florida Water Management District in support of this, and again it
supports the general policy in regards to the CREW Trust. So we're
looking at a very key element in terms of the mitigation.
It should be recognized that all projects today are
involving mitigation to one degree or another. In comparing this
level of mitigation to that on other projects, your staff will be
first to indicate that the proposal here is cost-effective, and
keeping in mind that our game plan from the very beginning was for the
county to pick the alignment and for the county to do the design and
for the development community to step in and do the construction. And
to that end, not only do we have PUD commitments that are out there
for construction of segments of the roadway but we also have the HSTD
that although it's been amended in size, the HSTD is out there as a
mechanism to be used by the board to not only work out the allocation
of the construction cost but also to direct staff to negotiate on
behalf of any design cost or mitigation cost. So there's an ability
to recoup some of the cost that the staff has outlined in this
particular agenda item.
Again, we're looking at the ability of continuing a
project that will become very important to the county in the future.
Recognizing that, no, it's not in our five-year plan that the roadway
is not in place, but it needs to be recognized that there are
commitments out there that will, in fact, create segments of this
roadway at developer expense.
In regards to the mitigation, the second item, what is
the staff recommending, the developers out there have gone ahead and
negotiated an option agreement for the properties that really have
been identified by the South Florida Water Management District as the
appropriate properties for mitigation. The cost of that -- Again,
we're talking about 422 acres. The cost of that in terms of unit
price is $1,200 per acre, and the total cost of that as outlined on
page three would be a total of $506,400, a fairly substantial amount,
but again recognize that this is the amount that we would foresee
being the off-site mitigation, what we would refer to as mitigation
banking that will satisfy not only South Florida requirements, but we
expect to, in fact, satisfy the Corps requirements at the federal
level.
There's quite a number of issues as outlined in the
agenda item, but that's one issue that we're bringing to the board and
recommending that the board go ahead and consider some of our reserve
dollars, particularly impact fee reserve dollars in North Naples, to
be able to fund the purchase of the 422 acres. On the down side,
there is a reason for the timing of this particular agenda item. It
involves the option agreement and whether or not the county may want
to consider the assignment of that option agreement and the time table
in that option agreement relative to the purchase. If a purchase is
made before the 10th of June of this particular year, again, that
price of $1,200 per acre would hold. After the 10th of June, the
option agreement indicates a price increase to $1,400 per acre. The
staff is in a position to negotiate an amendment to that. But, in
fact, the board has to consider whether or not they want to consider
an assignment of that option agreement with the idea that this may be
the important step to get the final permits in hand for a project that
will accrue, a benefit to the county as a whole of long-term.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: George, could I on that point ask
you a question, please?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Miss Hac'Kie, I have a question I
have to clear up first. It's a conflict question. Mr. Weigel -- Oh.
I'm sorry. Mr. Cuyler is back in the room.
MR. CUYLER: It might be Mr. Weigel, but go ahead.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: This -- If the board agrees to
move forward with this purchase, it's to benefit the CREW Trust, and
as a trustee and the treasurer for the CREW Trust, do I have a
conflict even though I don't receive any monetary reward for this good
service?
MR. CUYLER: The CREW Trust is a not-for-profit --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Not-for-profit.
MR. CUYLER: -- corporation?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Corporation, non-governmental.
MR. CUYLER: You are non-compensated?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Uncompensated, yes.
MR. CUYLER: The general rule is that if you were
non-compensated, you are not retained by the entity; and, therefore,
no conflict comes in.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: But as a corporate officer, does
that change that any as a treasurer?
MR. CUYLER: I don't believe. I think you could be an
officer or a director, and it wouldn't make any difference as long as
you're not compensated.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I am not compensated. Okay.
Thank you. Commissioner Hancock I believe was first.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: George, you said a little phrase
that I'm beginning to love, "at developer expense," and I think that's
an important element of what you're bringing forward because this is,
in fact, a joint effort to where we're carrying less of the burden
than others.
If I understand this correctly and understanding the
history, the volatile environmental history that this particular
corridor has had, what you're asking us to do, in essence, is to look
at this and lock into an environmental mitigation strategy that will
allow the roadway to proceed in a nutshell; is that correct?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes. The plan of the county
historically has been one of the county being the driving force behind
picking the alignment, doing the design, doing the permit, providing
the rights-of-way, and then either the HSTD or the developers either
together or in segment would end up building the segments of the
roadway that would serve their projects initially but serve the
network the long-term.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. So, in essence, we found
what we think is a solution that satisfies the CREW properties and our
mitigation responsibility, and we have letters to the effect that if
we go ahead with this plan as proposed, we're going to be in good
shape. Is that -- Is that a fair assessment?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Right now we've got commitment letters
that very strongly support this mitigation purchase and also the
mitigation that will occur on site for this location by South Florida
Water Management District, very strong indication there. The Corps
has indicated that not only the purchase of the land but also some of
the on-site mitigation. There's a 36-acre farm field that's going to
be restored. They're looking at both the purchase and the
restoration. So there's a very strong indication there, but, no, we
don't have a letter indicating that if we do it, we'll have a permit
within so many days. Those agencies don't provide that kind of
response unfortunately, but we've got strong enough letters, I think,
that indicate that this is the property, this is the restoration and
mitigation plan that would result in permits.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. And we're not going to
proceed with significant expenditures until such time as we do have a
more firm I guess confirmation from those agencies on the mitigative
balance. Is that -- In other words, we're not going to go spending
five or $600,000 if we're still unsure if the agencies are fully going
to accept it as a mitigation plan for this roadway?
MR. ARCHIBALD: That's part of what the difficult
decision the staff is bringing to the board today. Under the option
agreement, there's two forces at work, a possible increase in the
price of what we have to buy on one hand. That total increase may be
in the neighborhood of $84,400 by the middle of the year or directing
the staff to try and negotiate the continuance of that, but we're also
looking at the continuation of the permitting process. So those are
two issues that remain out there.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I've got two quick questions and
then I'm done. I promise. This roadway is planned to extend beyond
Old 41 to the regular 41 at some time; is that correct? We have that
right-of-way? Is that dedicated?
MR. ARCHIBALD: We have a segment of that right-of-way.
That is in our comp plan. That's part of our planning effort.
There's been some developments that are on the books that, in fact,
have made pledges to provide that right-of-way. And, yes, ultimately
this east/west roadway as part of this project will connect to U.S.
41.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. And the last question is
this right-of-way was given by the folks who own Landmark Estates, and
there is some agreement regarding buffering, a wall, because of the
encroachment into Landmark Estates and what they've given. Is that --
I know it's not a part of this particular approval, but I just want to
get on the record that we are addressing that issue with the owners of
Landmark Estates; is that correct?
MR. ARCHIBALD: We don't have a so-called two-party
agreement at hand, but we would -- we talked and we've outlined what
the elements of that would be and the importance in that particular
instance of a buffer and probably a wall and that the county would
have to absorb that cost because of the location of the dwelling units
in relationship to the roadway lanes. That would come about as part
of the design effort, and part of the recommendations for staff is
that if we proceed -- if we're talking about proceeding with the
purchase of that property, if we proceed with that as being
recommended, we would also proceed with the design. And although the
design has always been driven by the county, the developer has
submitted a proposal to subsidize the cost of that design.
Approximately $135,000 is part of what he's proposing to subsidize for
the design cost in addition to his requirements to subsidize the
construction cost.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My questions have to do with the
cost of the property and the fact that we do have to make a choice
about whether or not to step into the shoes in this option that
exists. Do we have any information about whether or not -- Have they
made a good deal? Is $1,200 an acre, $506,000, a good price for this
property, or do we have any information on that at this point?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes. There's been some what we call
review appraisal work done relative to the price. But as you see in
your agenda item, the board considers this. There's 12 specific items
that the staff is recommending, one of which is to consider the
assignment of the option wherein we have to consider being at risk for
$5,000.
The next concern would be to perform appraisals to, in
fact, verify the question in accordance with Florida Statutes as to
the value of that property. If our purchase price is below the
appraised value, then, in fact, the board can direct staff to proceed
with the closing on the property. If, in fact, it is -- the unit
price is above the appraised value, then that has to come back to the
board, and the board has to consider that based upon a super majority
vote, four of five.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And in that case, if we have
taken an assignment of the option, in the case of the appraisal being
too low for the purchase price under the option, we will then have
lost $5,0007 Is that --
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. They're shaking no heads
over there, so I guess we'll hear more.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think you've kind of
answered this question for Commissioner Hancock, but in a word you
said earlier you expect that the Army Corps of Engineers will accept
this. This will satisfy them, their requirements as well. We expect,
but we don't know; is that correct?
MR. ARCHIBALD: We've gotten written correspondence from
South Florida. There's not the same level of written correspondence
from the Corps, but historically that's been the position with the
federal agencies. They'll wait until -- They're typically waiting on
what the state does and then respond accordingly, and we expect that's
the case here. But, no, we do not have something in hand now.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Archibald, let me ask you a
question that might solve some of these questions. It's my
understanding that any sale contract that we would enter into would be
contingent on the permitting; is that correct?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Depending upon when the board wants to
take --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Not this one.
MR. ARCHIBALD: -- advantage of the change in unit
price, it becomes effective in June. So we -- Really what's at risk
in the option -- in assignment of the option -- I may be corrected on
this, but what would be at risk is to go ahead and consider the
assignment of that option, the ability to buy the land that the
environmental permitting agencies want and then recognize that
depending upon when we close on that land may depend upon what the
price would be. Before June, it would be 1,200. We would not have
the permit in hand. If we close after June 10, then what we're going
to end up with is possibly -- based upon the option agreement,
possibly paying a little more for the land.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And that was my second
question, is -- in my mind, if you've established or any other staff
members have established that 1,200 is an acceptable price, then that
should be the price. I can't believe that this pristine swamp land's
value is going to increase by 16 1/2 percent as of June 10. And CREW
being a non-profit group that is looking to do the best interest of
the community and the best interest of the environment, I would hope
that we can come up with one set price assuming -- it appears we're
going to move forward with this.
I understand the mechanism is probably there to make
sure we have a good faith effort, but I would hope and it would be my
preference that we have our staff negotiate that if we enter into an
option agreement at this point and the contingency is based on our
permitting and so on, that it stay at that standard 1,200 rate. I
don't think we need to expend an extra $80,000 just because it falls
after June 10.
MR. ARCHIBALD: That, in fact, could be one of the steps
that we outlined being the 12 steps here that, in fact, in addition of
the board's approval of the chairman to execute and sign, it would be
to confirm that that price would remain at 1,200. CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me -- Just to clarify, George,
I think you said that the county is going to fund the engineering and
design and that -- Did you say most or all of the construction money
would come from PUD commitments and the HSTD?
MR. ARCHIBALD: What's historically occurred is that the
county has handled the design. What is being proposed by developers
in the northern segment of the roadway is to, in fact, step in and
subsidize at their cost the remaining design cost for the northern
segment. There would still be the southern segment that the county
will have to continue to be responsible for the design cost. So it
doesn't include all of the road, but it does include the majority of
the road north of the so-called wetland problem or north of the S
curve.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: And the idea of the option -- The
whole idea of the option is so that we can have a chance to get our
permits in hand before we physically close on the property. I think
that's probably what we're trying to do.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes. That --
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: I don't think --
MR. ARCHIBALD: One of the -- One of the issues that's
difficult to bring to the board, in fact, do we make a decision to buy
it before the permits are in hand, or do we make that decision at the
time when we get the letter indication of approval. That's the
difficult decision. And, again, if we're successful in negotiating a
price of 1,200 acres for the remainder of the year, then I think we
would be in a very good position to have the permit commitment by the
time the properties are purchased. From an environmental permitting
criteria, no, we don't have to have the lands purchased prior to
permitting.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Okay.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I need to ask for a little help from the
development community in that they have put together the option
agreement. They can probably tell you a little bit better what some
of the stipulations are and how those may be re-negotiated.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. The expenditure today if we
approve this will really just amount to the two appraisal reports and
the land survey then, and the rest of it will be contingent on other
things happening; is that correct?
MR. ARCHIBALD: The way we have drafted up the agenda
item is that if, in fact, all of those items fall into play; if, in
fact, the appraisals come in; if, in fact, we exercise the option; if,
in fact, the funding is available through the reserves which it is,
then if all those things fall into place, then, in fact, the county
could proceed with purchase.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. I see. Do we have public
speakers?
MR. DORRILL: Only one.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I -- I just want to --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just want to -- I think -- I'm
trying to go through the 12 steps here and come up with something that
I can support and I think -- I think it is going to just require some
sort of combination of them, and I wonder if I could just run through
that. That what it seems to me would be appropriate to do is to
direct the staff to expedite step three which is the appraisals. MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: And then if the appraisals
support the price which is step six, then we authorize the chairman to
exercise the option and to do step two which is executing assignment
of the option. It's just important to me that we lay it out, that the
fundamental premise is if the -- you know, the first thing that I'd
like to authorize is the appraisals, and then if the appraisals
support the option price, then the chairman execute the option. Then
the exercise of the option.
And then I get confused when we get to the business
about the $5,000 non-refundable deposit described in step seven, and
I'm also confused about step nine. If we're authorizing Hole, Montes
on behalf of some private group to design a roadway segment and then
their contract for that is $135,000, why would we -- why would it be
necessary for us to authorize that since it's somebody else paying the
bill? Do I understand that?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yeah. We would still control the design
contract. So we would be looking for them to pay the county. And the
county, in turn, would pay the consultant as the work is performed.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: So understand this -- under step
nine, $135,000, the east/west segment of the roadway, we would control
the design. Hole, Hontes would do the design, and the Livingston Road
Landowner Group would pay for the design of that segment, the
east/west segment?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And then Collier County would pay
for the north/south design segment to the tune of about 200,000,
$195,0007
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And so the county spending
195,000 and 506,000, and does that total what you've described in -- I
don't think so -- in number four, $806,450? I don't know where that
number --
MR. ARCHIBALD: If you go back to page three of the
agenda item, there's a complete breakdown on page three. It outlines
all of the individual costs and how we would come up with the 806,000.
Now, currently, and as part of your growth management plan, $672,000
has been set aside for this project. So we don't have all $806,000 to
subsidize this at this time. But we, in fact, would subsidize it to
the degree we could, recognizing that some of this activity may occur
in the following year in which we would have to come back to the board
for funding to finalize that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That also includes the extra
$84,000.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Purchase price.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's hear from the public
speaker, Mr. Dotrill.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Goodlette.
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Madam Chairman. I'll try to
be brief. I'm Dudley Goodlette, law firm of Cummings and Lockwood.
We represent the Landowner Group, what has been described as the
Landowner Group. Let me just make a couple of comments at the outset.
First of all, this has been a -- as all of you know, has
been had a road segment that's been important to the community for
some period of time. We've discussed it. We've discussed the
environmental mitigation issues. We've discussed the Corps of
Engineers and the South Florida Water Management District. We believe
that the window of opportunity, as described in your agenda packet
materials, does now exist. We obviously would urge you to vote
favorably on the recommendations that staff has brought to you. And
we would obviously be remiss if we didn't tell you that Lad and George
and members of their staff have worked extremely hard with us
assisting them in the way that this option agreement comes to you
today to posture this for your hopeful approval.
Let me come back to a couple of questions that I'd like
to focus attention on. Commissioner Hac'Kie, page eight of your
materials, article number three of the option agreement --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. $100.
MR. GOODLETTE: -- I think you're becoming a little
confused. We're asking for two -- two things. We're asking today for
you to simply accept an assignment of the option. That doesn't cost
anything. When you exercise the option -- that is, when you decide
that you can obtain the permits, if that's the way you've decided to
proceed, then you pay $5,000 that's non-refundable, but you don't pay
5,000 unless and until you exercise the option. So what you're doing
here today isn't costing $5,000 for accepting the assignment of the
option. It merely puts you in a position to negotiate with the
current -- with the Fisch Trust, the current landowner regarding that
price.
Now, I want to comment just briefly on the price. If you
read the option agreement that is in your materials from pages I think
seven through 22, you would see that basically the price we've agreed
upon is a $1,400-an-acre price, but they've agreed to discount that
price to two -- to $1,200 an acre if the option is exercised by June
the 10th. That's the way it was drafted.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I see that. I just -- I just
have no idea if you guys got the best price you could get or if we
could get a better price.
MR. GOODLETTE: And I agree, and I think that's what the
appraisals are for and that -- again, in your -- on page three of your
agenda materials, there's a $3,400 item that it will cost you to
obtain consistent with what the law requires for you to do two
appraisals on the property. We believe that that appraisal is going
to come in at an amount greater than 1,200 which is the discounted
price which is why we negotiated a discounted price and probably in --
It might even be a little less than 1,400. But we really do believe
based upon a lot of work that we have done negotiating with this
landowner that the price is a fair and reasonable price, and we would
encourage you to obtain those appraisals and the survey necessary to
proceed.
I'll be glad to answer any other questions. I think
those are the two points that I wanted to clarify based upon the
discussion that I've listened to, and I'll be more than happy to
answer any other questions that you might have.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Goodlette, I appreciate
the wording that it is, in fact, a discount and so on; however, you
know, in essence, if you boil it down, if we purchase it before June
10, it's $1,200, and afterwards it's $1,400 and -- I think that's the
date.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Sounds like a federal discount,
doesn't it?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I'm just not sure again
referencing the CREW Trust and what we're trying to accomplish here is
in the best interest of the community, best interest of the
environment. I'm not sure that the value of that property is going to
change by 16 1/2 percent magically a month from now.
My hope is that if it's $1,200 value as long as the
county does, indeed, show good faith, that that's the price we can get
it. It may be June 17. It may be July 17. I don't know how long it
would take to get the word from the Army Corps. But if this board
makes it clear that our intent is to do that contingent upon the Army
Corps, then my hope is that we wouldn't extort an extra 16 1/2
percent.
MR. GOODLETTE: I think a transcript of this proceeding
delivered to the property owner might be helpful to them in that
regard. The $1,200, obviously if you accept an assignment of the
option, you're then free to negotiate the price with the current
landowner.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHHISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you, Miss Chairman. I'll
make a motion that we approve the staff's recommendation here with the
limitation that -- that the -- concerning the option, the maximum
price that the county will enter into the option would be 1,200 an
acre.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: So we have a motion and a second
to accept staff's recommendation and limiting the price on the option
to $1,200 an acre. Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I just want to make one point of
clarification. Both Commissioner Norris and Constantine had talked
about the Army Corps of Engineer permit, and since this transcript may
be delivered to the property owner -- George would probably back me up
on this -- the South Florida permit is the more restrictive of the two
generally. Army Corps' line is -- and delineation probably won't be as
accessive. So just -- We mentioned Army Corps, but I imagine South
Florida is going to be the one we do a little more work with, and the
Corps may eventually sign off on South Florida's work. So I just
wanted to mention that so it's not contingent solely upon Army Corps,
that there's something from South Florida that's positive will be a
very, very good step.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a letter from them.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. My hope is that that's
the case. I understand we already have acceptance from South Florida
Water Management on this. I thought that's what you had said.
Obviously, if not, then we should probably be contingent upon that as
well.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Kind of like a mega concert.
It's conceptual.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Or moot at this point. I did
have one question. It's on item 11. "Final motions to include a
board commitment to South Florida and the Army Corps to fund perpetual
maintenance and undertake on-site restoration/enhancement work."
Do we have a dollar figure on what that will be for the
rest of our lives? And, also, what is perpetual maintenance on swamp
land?
MR. ARCHIBALD: What they're looking at doing is
extracting from the county or the permittee really -- COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Extorting or extracting?
MR. ARCHIBALD: -- a dollar amount and the value of that
in regards to restoration and the payment that we may end up making or
the activity that we undertake over a period of years may approach a
quarter of a million dollars or more. So we're looking at an added
cost that is fairly typical. They want you not only to provide the
property but provide some payment so that that property either is
restored or the hydro period is extended or some other environmental
improvement occur, and what we're asking the board to do in that item
is to authorize us to include that element in the permit and
mitigation package.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Archibald, is it possible to
include the cost of the mitigation land in the HSTU to be refunded to
the general fund?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes, it is, through the HSTD that's in
place. That district or the HSTU that's in place that the board
modified in late '94, that's a mechanism that's available to the board
not only to allocate the construction cost but to go back and consider
allocating the cost of either design or cost of mitigation so --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I didn't read that recommendation
in the list of recommendations that we pass this cost on to the MSTD
because it's part of building the road.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I would foresee that at the point in
time where we enter into an agreement with the developers to actually
build the segments of roadway, that that would be the appropriate time
for the staff to recommend to the board what degree of mitigation to
be offset or reimbursed.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think I just foresee that at
some point in the future and I don't want it lost in the discussion
when we get ready to build the road, and I'd like to ask the motion
maker to incorporate that into his motion as well.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm sorry. You're
incorporating?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That the cost of this be
considered as a pass-through to the HSTD at some future time when we
work out the cost of the road.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll incorporate that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Will the second accept it?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have an amendment then to the
motion that the cost of the mitigation land be incorporated into the
discussions and the -- and the funding for the HSTD at some future
point in time. Is there further discussion? Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a clarification for me. The
only expenditure that we're authorizing right now is the appraisal and
then if the -- subject to the appraisals, then we'll go forward
contingent on all applicable approvals, whether it's the Corps or
simply whoever?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, the motion on the floor is
to approve the recommendation of staff which is all 12 of these items,
limiting the cost to $1,200 an acre.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: These things are self-limiting.
If they don't -- If step one doesn't go forward, then step two doesn't
go forward and so forth all the way down the line. They're contingent
on each other happening.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And is -- Maybe somebody can just
show it to me. I'm missing that, that there is a contingency in here
for governmental approvals or acceptance of the property. Which one
is that? I just want to be sure that that's here.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I think the comments that were made is
that we would rephase or resequence the items. They wouldn't be one
through 12. They would, in fact, be three, six, two, and then follow
through and --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I understand. But my other
question is that I see in number 11 -- and I'm sorry to beat this to
death. It just seems real important to me -- is that the board is
making a commitment to the management district and to the Corps, but
are we making our obligation to spend additional money contingent on
acceptance of this mitigation plan by the Corps and South Florida
Water Management District?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That was part of the motion.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't see it in the list but if
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't know that it was part
of the list but I --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It was verbalized.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- think that --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I want it to be is what I'm
trying to tell you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think Commissioner Norris
made that verbally --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- as part of his motion.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let me see if I can restate the
motion to clear the record. We are recommending -- or we are
approving the recommendation of staff in a resequenced natural order,
and that approval is predicated or conditioned upon permitting from
South Florida Water Management and the Corps and that we -- and we are
limiting the price of the property to $1,200 an acre and --
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: And there was --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- the last thing was to consider
the cost or that the cost of the mitigation land will be included in
the MSTD.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: And the motion maker accepts that
restatement of the motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. The second?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is there further discussion?
If there isn't, I'll call the question. All those in
flavor please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0. Thank you. Let's
take a break. It's ten minutes to 11:00. Five after 11:00 let's
return.
(A short break was held.)
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: To reconvene the Board of County
Commission meeting for May the 9th, 1995. During the break I reviewed
our agenda, and we have two commissioners who have luncheon
commitments to deal with and I'm going to ask in effort to handle
their problems, that the two items listed under the county manager's
contract, items four and five, that we attend to that at about 11:30,
and that will allow us to maybe be a little bit short on commissioners
for an hour or so but also accommodate the afternoon agenda which we
-- some items require four votes. I'd like to ask this board if
they're in agreement with that.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Absolutely.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. We'll do so. Mr. Cuyler,
can we notify Mr. Ayres then that these items -- we'll address them
about 11:30.
MR. CUYLER: We are in the process of doing that, and I
understood that you understand there are no four-vote requirements
left on the agenda.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: There are none this afternoon?
MR. CUYLER: The two items -- There would have been, but
those items show as continued.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Except that I think we
have one item that I have to -- I have to abstain from.
MR. CUYLER: Right. That --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: So we're already --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Passed on a 2-0 vote today.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK:
handle things.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
get our agenda completed.
Yes. We're --
Don't worry. John and I will
Okay. Fine. Well, as long as we
Item #883
RESOLUTION 95-326 ESTABLISHING 25 HILE PER HOUR SPEED ZONE AND "NO
THROUGH TRUCK" RESTRICTIONS IN THE HILLTOP AND RIVER REACH RESIDENTIAL
NEIGHBORHOODS - ADOPTED
Next item on the agenda is item 8A(3), a recommendation
to approve a resolution to establish a 25-mile zone.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion to approve. Is
there any discussion? Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I just want to thank George
for the presentation.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think there are probably -- I
think there are public speakers.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there speakers?
MR. DORRILL: There are two. I don't know whether
they're supportive or not.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's hear the speakers and ask
if they are supportive in view of the motion that they pass. MR. DORRILL: Mr. Feil.
MR. FEIL: I am supportive, but I would like to address
the council.
MR. DORRILL: And Mr. Feil will follow Mr. Fernandez.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I can feel my support
slipping away now.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Michael Fernandez. I'm a member of the
River Reach Single-Family Homeowners Association. We did petition the
county for this to reduce -- to handle some of our traffic problems.
We have a unique traffic calming problem on our street in that it's
terminated by River Reach Apartments, and we've got about 3,600 trips
a day that go down our street.
We've actually asked for three considerations. One was
to actually lower the speed limit to 20 miles an hour. Two was to look
at lane striping. That's a traffic calming measure to reduce the
apparent width of the roadway which is probably the real problem here.
And we would like to see as part of your motion today, consider an
additional line that would form that nine-foot width down River Reach
Drive. And in the last resort, if that proves unsuccessful, in the
future consider increasing the width of the three landscaped median
islands, again a traffic calming measure.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Feil.
MR. FEIL: My name is Carl Feil, and I'm the president
of the River Reach Homeowners Association, and we're in accord with
the 25 mile-an-hour. We do have a severe traffic problem. There's
not much I can add to what Mike has already said, so I'll make it
short. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Archibald, do you have a
problem with a restriping of River Reach to a nine-foot lane, and do
you see that as an effective measure to slow folks down?
MR. ARCHIBALD: We can do that. It's going to entail a
cost I think from a funding standpoint, something we can incorporate
into our striping efforts. I see the real calming mechanism out there
being to curb and control the radiuses for the islands in the middle
of the roadway. Ultimately reconstruct those so they function like an
approach to a traffic roundabout where the speed is physically reduced
because of the curb and the approach. That ultimately I see is the
most effective calming device, but youwre calming task force is just
about to the point of bringing to the board a whole host of devices,
mechanisms, and also procedures to follow. But, yes, we can follow
through with that striping and will continue to keep in touch with the
association about the islands and creating curbing that will
positively reduce the speed.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Iwm -- Based on what you said,
Iwm not going to ask the motion maker to amend because it sounds like
if we go expending money on striping now, we may turn around and
expend additional dollars to achieve the same result on medians in the
very near future. So Iwm not going to ask the motion maker to amend.
Iwm satisfied that the traffic calming task force may bring something
forward that will benefit this particular neighbor but I -- Youwve
answered my question. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was just confused. Mr.
Fernandez spoke -- and I'm sorry. I lost your name. But one person
said 20 and the other person said 25, and is there an official
position of the River Reach Association? Is 20 the preferred or is 25
the preference, and do you have a recommendation regardless?
MR. ARCHIBALD: I believe the -- and I'll stand
corrected if not, but I believe the River Reach Association has
petitioned for I believe 20. Our recommendation is 25. But
recognizing that at some point in time when you install a traffic
calming device, you're going to physically prohibit speeds probably in
excess of 20 miles per hour, but if the board wishes to reduce to 20
we can. Again, I wouldn't expect a whole lot of compliance. We've
got a roadway there that has a very high volume, and the 85 percentile
speed is about 40 miles an hour. But, again, we can consider 25 or
20. Our recommendation at the staff level is 25, and that's
consistent with the Florida Statute that typically allows cities and
counties to reduce their speed limit to 25. You can go below that
with a study.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My only other question is, can
you give us more specificity about when we're going to hear from the
traffic calming committee because I -- we had this discussion with the
Marco Island speed limit, and I just hate to keep waiting.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I can't at this time. Again, as quickly
as that is completed and signed off on. I know that Development
Services and Planning would like to get that to the board in a
complete package but it -- I'll be the first to say that there is lot
of information that has been put into a package that hopefully will
come to the board in the near future.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Can we get an interim report,
say, if the final is not ready in 60 days? Can we get an interim
report of when to expect it?
MR. ARCHIBALD: If we could, let's go ahead and I'll
give the Planning Department a range to submit a draft copy of the
booklet that's been prepared to each board member. We can provide
that.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That would help.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That would help.
MR. DORRILL: And my note here is also to give you the
scheduled completion of that, what's currently contemplated, and does
it go to -- you know, go to HPO, or does it have to go to the Planning
Commission.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: We'll do that before the end of the week.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. We have a motion and
a second to approve the recommendation of staff. Is there further
discussion?
There being none, I'll call the question. All in favor,
please say aye.
Are there opposed?
Motion passes 5-0. Thank you. Mr. Archibald.
Item #8C1
AGREEMENT WITH THE COLLIER COUNTY CHILDREN'S ADVOCACY COUNCIL WORKING
THROUGH THE CHILD PROTECTION TEAM TO PAY FOR THE INITIAL EXAMINATION
COSTS OF CHILDREN WHO ARE THE SUBJECT OF ALLEGED PHYSICAL OR SEXUAL
ABUSE - APPROVED
Item 8C(1), Public Services, a recommendation that the
Collier County Commission execute an agreement with the Children's
Advocacy Council.
MR. OLLIFF: Good morning.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Olliff.
MR. OLLIFF: Good morning. For the record, Tom Olliff,
your Public Services administrator. This item is one that we do
annually. Collier County is required by state statutes to pay for the
initial examination associated with children who are suspected to be
the victims of physical and/or sexual abuse. The Collier County
citizens -- I mean, the Collier County Children's Advocacy Council and
they, in turn, work through a group called the Child Protection Team
-- and just for the rest of this presentation, for ease sake, I will
refer to them as the CPT. It is an organization by contract with the
state's HRS is designated to coordinate all those aspects related to
those children's sexual and physical abuse cases.
This is, as I indicated, an annual contract that we do
with the CPT, and the only issue that I need to at least make the
board aware of is one that I bring up every year, only because I feel
it's an obligation to, but the board generally agrees to fund a
contract at the request of CPT. There is a minimum financial
obligation on the part of the county to pay for these exams. There
are certain of these exams that were Medicaid eligible. Certain of
them that aren't. For those that are Medicaid eligible, the county's
statutory obligation for financial support of that is zero. For those
that are non-Medicaid eligible, the county's total statutory
obligation is $75. The CPT has requested $100 per exam because they
indicate that they are experiencing some additional administrative
cost in order to bill Medicaid and to try and pursue payment from
those parents, guardians, or custodians in each of those cases.
The board last year approved an agreement with CPT for
$100 per exam. This is not a major dollar issue as I indicated in the
executive summary. The total dollar difference based on what they've
requested versus what your minimum statutory obligation is, is less
than $6,000.
What we have done this year also in terms of differences
in this agreement is to try and draft an agreement that would allow
for some automatic extensions under these same terms for a maximum
two-more-year period if that's acceptable to the county commission so
we don't need to keep bringing this to you each year and then
discussing this same issue.
But the recommendation is that the board needs to decide
again whether it wants to participate at that minimum funding level or
at the request of the CPT at $100 per exam.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to move approval of the
request for the -- including the $100 -- the $100 cost for the request
of CPT.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll second that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion. We have a
second. Discussion?
I have one question, Mr. Olliff. Recently the state
legislature passed a bill for funding examinations for rape victims.
Would any of that money be available to the CPT?
MR. OLLIFF: I don't know, but I will check and see, and
I'll get you an answer to that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Because that could be another
method for funding this.
If there's no further discussion, I'll call the
question. All in favor please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0.
Item #8C2
DONATION FROM THE EAST NAPLES CIVIC ASSOCIATION OF A TOT LOT AND
ASSOCIATED PROPERTY IN NAPLES MANOR - ACCEPTED AND FEES TO BE WAIVED
Next item on the agenda is a recommendation that the
Collier County Board of Commissioners consider a donation to the East
Naples Civic Association of a tot lot.
MR. OLLIFF: Again, this is an item which is actually a
proposal from the East Naples Civic Association.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: "From." I said "to." I'm sorry.
MR. OLLIFF: It's actually from the East Naples Civic
Association and area firefighters as well. They are proposing to
develop and then to deed to Collier County a small parcel of property
in the Naples Manor community. They are proposing that they would
construct a tot lot on a -- what is currently a single-family home
property of approximately a quarter of an acre. They've requested
that the county commission have the staff prepare the rezoning that
would be associated with the construction of this and that they waive
the fees associated with the development which would include the
rezoning, the clearing, permits, the solid waste disposal fees and the
permit fees. The estimated expense for all of that -- and I've
estimated that between 1,000 and $1,200 in order to accomplish that.
I think in the past any time that a request for waiver of fees has
been presented to the board, it actually ends up being a transfer from
general fund to those enterprise funds in order to cover the staff
cost associated with those.
The county has not built a neighborhood park of this
size in many years; however, we do have them in our inventory. There
are certain neighborhood-type parks. Most of you probably don't know
where they even are they are so small. Coconut Circle Community Park.
There is a Rock Creek Community Park. And both of those are about the
same quarter of an acre in size.
And there are some additional maintenance fees that -- I
mean, maintenance costs associated with smaller parks and having a
crew go there. But what I'm being told in terms of the development of
this particular park is it is going to be an entire mulched area
xeriscape, no requirement for sprinkler systems. The tot lot will
actually be installed by local area firefighters, lighted at the
request of the sheriff's department. Fencing now has been donated.
So the executive summary had indicated there was a cost of the county
for fencing, but I'm being told now that the fence has also been
donated, in fact, by one of the people who was here accepting your
Adopt-A-Road Program certificates this morning. Saw this item on the
agenda and agreed to donate the fencing for the project. It's --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: How can we say no?
MR. OLLIFF: The item --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Olliff, excuse me a second.
Let me see if I've got this straight. The East Naples Civic
Association is going to -- and the firefighters are going to build a
little tot lot park completely outfit it, fence it, landscape it, and
then donate it to the county?
MR. OLLIFF: (Nodding head.)
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: This is a very tough decision.
Give me a minute. Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the maintenance costs are
nill. Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think we might -- Do we have
public speakers, Mr. Dorrill?
MR. DORRILL: You do. And I do have one question. If
we're going to ultimately be responsible for it, we need to have some
idea as to what they're building. And a good example is these wooden
modular playground systems. We've had very poor history and lots of
first aid problems with splinters and things, and so we'd like to have
some idea as to what it is they're going to build if we're going to be
forever responsible for it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's hear from the public
speaker. While he's coming up -- MR. DORRILL: Mr. Gibbons has a presentation, and then I
also have a Mr. Eifert.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Olliff, I have one question.
I'm familiar with the community or the neighborhood park at Poinciana.
How many acres is that park?
MR. OLLIFF: Steve indicates it's about one acre in
size.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's about one acre? And
that's got a tennis court on it?
MR. OLLIFF: That has a basketball court, a small
playground area, I believe one --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: So it's more than a tot lot?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes. I think we're talking about primarily
equipment for preschool, very early elementary age school.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Swings, seesaws, those little
rocking things?
MR. OLLIFF: Spring chickens is what we call them.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Spring chickens. Yes, sir. Thank
you.
MR. GIBBONS: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Richard Gibbons. I'm with the East Naples Civic Association, also
East Naples firefighter. This tot lot is not going to have any wooden
structure whatsoever. It will be steel vinyl coated if you can see in
the packet I gave you. That gives you an example of a couple of
pieces of equipment we're talking about. We may get it a little
larger or whatever fits in the lot.
I was told this morning by Darlene Coons from Habitat
for Humanity who, by the way, gave us the lot, gave it to East Naples
Civic Association -- that -- in that small area right down Scholtz
Street, there is 32 children there in that very small area. That's
mostly -- That's only the people that she knows from the habitat
houses that would use the park and is walking distance.
Scholtz street there is centrally located in Naples
Manor. And as you see, the rendering of the sign that we'd like to
put there too. It's by Signcraft. He made the sign. He's going to
donate the sign to put up there which would be a wooden sign, and it's
going to be dedicated to the -- in memory of the children of Oklahoma
City.
Now, I -- last week I went to North Naples Fire
Department and spoke to the firefighters up there, and they asked me a
lot of questions about what we're doing and everything, and then the
following day they called me and they donated $4,000 towards the park,
and that's only one local union that I talked to. I've got four more
to talk to plus the Professional Firefighters of Collier County. Then
we feel -- We feel that we're going to get all the money from the
firefighters to build this park. Everything will be completely paid
for, and the county -- won't cost them a dime. So I would appreciate
if you would waive all the fees and accept the park after it's
completed and will dedicate -- We'll have a dedication and everything.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you. Do we have --
We have another speaker?
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Eifert.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you for all your work.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you very much.
MR. DORRILL: Then we'll have Mr. Carpenter if he's
interested. One quick note. We can't waive the fees, but if you
authorize it, then we will transfer money out of general fund reserves
to pay for those fees.
MR. EIFERT: Dave Eifert, president of Professional
Firefighters of Collier County on behalf of the 200 organized
firefighters here in Collier County. We will do all the work. It
will be on safety standards, the fencing, the construction, the
clearing. I am a -- also a certified Florida nurseryman, and at this
point in time all the eucalyptus mulch will be donated by Home Depot
of which I am the resident nurseryman. So everything will be above
board and beyond safety standards, and we assure you that all the work
will be top shelf. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you. Mr. Olliff --
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Carpenter is saying that he doesn't
wish to speak.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm sorry?
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Carpenter is indicating he does not
wish to speak.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Does not?
MR. DORRILL: Does not.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Mr. Olliff, I have one
question. Based on the drawings and so forth that we've seen -- and
it looks like this is really a nice plan that they've got here -- will
this be similar to other tot lots that we would consider building if
we were going to do this?
MR. OLLIFF: In fact, they've been talking to our park
staff recently, and I think they had considered some wood equipment
and they learned from our experiences, and I think they've looked at
some of the equipment that we currently use. And I think, yes, in
terms of design, they have been working with us and I think it's --
it's fairly similar to something we would construct.
Specifically if the board wants to accept this and I've
been here long enough to jump on and support some things when they're
good like this one, there are three things specifically that need to
happen. You need to direct staff to actually prepare the rezoning
application for this, to authorize the budget amendments that would be
associated with transferring funds from the general fund to the
associated enterprise fund for that project, and then there will also
be the title requirement search on the real property's part and
acceptance of the deed that will come at a later date, but just
basically directing us that you're supporting the idea of accepting
that property assuming that the title is clear.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Motion maker, does the motion
include these three items Mr. Olliff has laid out?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes, they do.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And the second accepts them?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: If there's no further discussion,
I'll call the question. All in favor please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none -- surprise -- motion passes 5-0.
Item #8H4
ALLOCATION OF TOURIST DEVELOPHENT TAX REVENUES FOR ADVERTISING IN THE
EVENT OF A NATURAL DISASTER - APPROVED
At this time -- I see Hr. Ayres has come in. At this
time, let's take up the issues that are items H -- 8H(4) and (5), the
first one being item (4), allocate Tourist Development tax revenues
for advertising in the event of a natural disaster. Miss Gansel.
MS. GANSEL: Good morning, Commissioners. Jean Gansel
from the budget office. This item is a follow-up to discussion that
the TDC and the board had last summer regarding funding for media
exposure in the event of a natural disaster. It was decided at that
time that the best way to fund this advertising would be to transfer 5
percent of the tourist tax revenues from category B and category C to
a special fund, and we would build up that fund over the years.
We've been working with the EDC, the Accommodations
Association and the chambers to determine the best way to set up this
fund and to being able to allocate the money in the event of a
disaster.
After much discussion, actually the contract that Mr.
Cuyler is passing out is with -- was with the chamber of commerce.
And after much discussion, it was decided that the Collier County
Tourism Committee would probably be the best entity for us to enter
into a contract with. That's the entity that we at this point provide
funding for our category B local promotions. So there is a change
from the contract that you have in the executive summary.
We're requesting in addition to the approval of the
contract to set up a mechanism which is in the contract to allocate
those funds. Obviously if there's a natural disaster, we don't have a
lot of time to meet. So the procedure we've set up is that the
Emergency Management director would declare what the emergency -- the
amount of damages. We would have in place at the beginning of each
fiscal year a blanket purchase order with the Collier County Tourism
Committee identifying how much money is available in that fund. If a
disaster hits, they would contact us to determine the amount of funds
that would be available for advertising, and they would make the
initiations with the different organizations that are identified in
the package of information that you've received. CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
MS. GANSEL: One thing. Finance had asked me to
identify the fund transfers would be from fiscal year '94. We would
start in that year making the transfers into this disaster recovery
fund.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Ms. Gansel, the purpose
behind this I think was inspired by Lee County's unfortunate run-in
with Andrew that I think Dan Rather was the one who announced that Lee
County and Fort Myers had been obliterated. The tourism industry took
a hit because of that. I think the purpose -- and help me here -- is
to make sure if we do get hit, that the word gets out appropriately.
But if for some reason there is a report in error or there's a
perception in error, that we get that word out as well.
MS. GANSEL: Exactly, so that we don't lose tourism
during that time when Collier County is in position to receive
visitors. We would make sure that people are aware of that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there other questions? Is
there a motion?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the item. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 5-0.
MS. GANSEL: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you.
Item #8H5
FUNDING FOR A FILM COMMISSION OFFICE WITH TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX
REVENUES - CONTINUED TO JUNE 6, 1995
MS. GANSEL: Commissioners, the next item is also a
Tourist Development Council item, and this is to appropriate funding
for a film commission office. TDC received a proposal from the
Economic Development Council at their April 3 meeting and the proposal
that was received was attached to your information. What they are
looking for is for the TDC to share the cost of setting up a film
commission office where they would have brochures. They would have
information available. We would have a film commissioner who would be
able to respond to requests that I understand have been received
throughout the county to film here. I know you're all aware of "Just
Cause" and the success that that was to the county. This would put us
in a position to be more proactive and to solicit some of that
industry into our community.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to move approval.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think that's premature.
I've done -- I've got a number of questions and comments on this.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: We've discussed it once last
year --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- I could make a motion and you
could decide not to second it, but I've made it.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Just a moment. We have a motion
on the floor. Commissioner Hac'Kie has moved approval. We are
awaiting a second. Is there discussion on the item?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have discussion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think it's premature.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I had a feeling about that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The -- You know, I've done a
lot of homework on this, and for a number of reasons I think it's
premature. I think -- Where is John? There he is hiding behind the
shades looking Hollywood.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Appropriately today.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I know John and the EDC have
done a lot of homework on this as well, and we will likely hear some
of the reasons. I assume you may speak on this, but there are some
concerns I have. I'd like to see us pursue the film industry, but I
don't know that the format in which this is written today is the way
to do it. I have a number of concerns. First and foremost I guess, as
you go back to the back of our packet and look at what has been
suggested for expenditures here and as you read through the
suggestions, the development of a film library, development of
production guide, and support services, all those types things, there
are several in here, many of those exist for Southwest Florida right
now. I've had a chance to spend a little bit of time with Beverly Fox
from the Lee County film commission, and they break theirs down into
different portions of Southwest Florida, but they do, indeed, already
feature people who provide those services in Naples and places even
south of here and have a very comprehensive guide to those various
services. So I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
They also attend trade shows and do the various things,
and they have their little film sampling clips and so on. Much of
that is inclusive of footage from Collier County as well. They're
trying to push Southwest Florida. Obviously they prefer to have --
the way it's currently set up, the film industry come and spend their
money in the Lee hotels and so on. But I've talked with Beverly about
this. I've talked to a couple of the commissioners up there about
this, and I think this may be an opportunity for us to do a regional
project and rather than -- When you compete with the Hiamis and the
Orlandos and the big metropolitan areas, you have not only a large
geographical area but you've got a million or two million people in
those areas from which to draw. And I think when you look at us as a
little corner of 185,000 people trying to compete with them and trying
to compete with Lee and everyone else, we're better suited to do that
as a region. If you take us and Lee, we can broach the subject with
Charlotte, but I think particularly us and Lee, you've got a pool of
600,000 people. You've got a much wider variety of area from which to
shoot geographically and visually, and I think we need to pursue the
film commission idea, but I think we need to pursue that on a regional
basis. Lee spends about $80,000 a year doing this. They're on a tight
budget as many of them are, but that is less I know than what is put
forth here.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: What was the number in Lee?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: About 80,000 roughly, and
that's serving from memory. I have a few questions for John, but I
want to let you do your thing first, and then I've got a couple of
questions for you on the idea. I think we're headed in the right
direction, and I think we need to look at it, but two specific
concerns I have here is if we're going to look at things for economic
development, let's do that all in one big picture, not in piecemeal
fashion. And we have -- We have appointed our Council of Economic
Advisors -- they are due back with their annual report I think in
September. So we're not that far away. And I'd like to see this as
part of a complete picture of Economic Development. And also if we're
going to look at altering the use of TDC dollars and I think after the
mega concert deal, it's probably appropriate that we do that, but
again we should look at that as one big picture rather than piecemeal
but --
MS. GANSEL: Let me have Mr. Ayres respond to your
comments.
MR. AYRES: Thank you, Commissioners. I guess my
response would be that you've given me reason to think about this
regional idea. The very first meeting we had of the film commission,
we had Beverly at that meeting so that we could learn a little bit
about what Lee County had been doing in previous years, and in the
spirit of not reinventing the wheel and we took -- just as we did with
our disaster recovery program, we started that the same way.
I think there are probably some areas where we could
share and probably should share. We have been privy to all of their
collateral and their various marketing information, and we have that
from all over the -- we have a box that's moved from office to office
that weighs about 80 pounds. It's full of various pieces of material
on how to do it and how not to do it but --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's where you get those
big arms.
MR. AYRES: Yes indeed, but I don't carry it. But,
anyway, so we took the opportunity to look at what everyone was doing,
and I guess I would certainly bring it back to the committee and have
the committee discuss it. I have one thought for you to ponder here.
There's a film that's going to start production which we haven't even
announced yet -- I guess it will be announced right now -- called
"Wreckage" which is a -- which is a film which is currently being
shot in -- off the beaches in Miami and a wreckage of a small cruise
ship down in the Bahamas. So we didn't have to worry about that
challenge here but -- and then it comes to Keewaydin Island for three
weeks of filming.
And, you know, when you look at -- When you look at
millions of dollars worth of -- not the hocus-pocus of, you know, if
you multiply seven times every dollar that goes through the cash
register, but we had nine million real dollars that landed in Collier
County as a result of "Just Cause" and the movie "Captiva," and I
would caution that that's big money, and let me tell you, Lee County
would like all of it. And if they could have, they would have had
"Wreckage" in Lee County and not in Collier County, and that's three
weeks of hotel rooms and all of the same kind of things that "Just
Cause" did and we are -- My consensus is that we're probably too
competitive to be doing too much of this on our -- on a joint basis.
That would be my preliminary thought.
THE COURT REPORTER: Sir, could you state your name,
please?
MR. AYRES: John Ayres, A-y-r-e-s.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think as part of it we will
find there are certain aspects that you're absolutely right,
particularly if -- I mean, if someone comes to shoot a commercial,
it's different than "Just Cause" where they're here in Gainesville and
Lee County and Miami. If someone is shooting a commercial, they're
likely going to do that in one or two locations, and I understand
there are some areas where we're going to want to stand up on our own,
but I think there are several areas where it is beneficial for us to
do that as a region. I think we can become much more competitive if
we do it as a region rather than little Collier County competing
against Broward, Palm Beach, Miami.
MR. AYRES: Well, except that the film industry is
similar to the tourism industry. Little Collier County can compete
head to head with Palm Beach County or Dade County, or Hawaii for that
matter, and I think that in the film industry, I think from the
vantage point that, you know, a year of messing around with this thing
has come from, I think that, you know, we have a real opportunity to
compete. For example, at trade shows, however, could we consolidate
and save some money by -- you know, by sharing a booth and that kind
of thing, yes, we've had those thoughts.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess I would disagree,
respectfully disagree. We may have site locations that rival other
places; however, we do not have the production services and so on,
certainly not to the extent that other areas do. So I think if
they're looking solely for a visual, you're right, we can compete with
anyone in the world but --
MR. AYRES: But, in fact, that's what -- at the moment
at least, that's what we're selling.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And, in fact, though, that's
not all that they're looking for. Maybe all we're selling, but that's
not all that the industry is looking for, and I think if we do that as
a region, then everyone benefits. MR. AYRES: Sure.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Thank you, Miss Chairman.
Commissioner Constantine brings up some good points in his discussion.
I'm going to vote against the motion for a few other reasons. First
of all, EDC has in the past opposed diversion of these tourist tax
funds from their intended purposes, and now they have a proposal to do
just that.
Second of all, if I remember correctly, the voters were
assured back when this was brought before the voters that this tax
would not bring with it new bureaucracies and new agencies. I seem to
remember that very clearly.
And second of all, I'm just not -- or third -- I guess
I'm down to third, aren't I? Third, I'm not comfortable funding a
private organization with these taxpayer dollars. So, as I stated
before, I'm going to vote against the motion.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think that we're being
short-sighted when we say we shouldn't do this unless we do it
regionally. I think what would be the best plan would be to have a
Collier County agency and instruct it to work where appropriate in
conjunction with the Lee County agency. And if there are particular
items on the budget list or -- you know, there, for example, that film
library, if that $10,000 seems to be too much for that, I'd certainly
want to hear about that, but I think it's just a shame if we continue
to do nothing when we are presented with these kinds of opportunities.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: The question is how much did the
EDC spend last year in this regard, in this effort? What was the
budget and expense last year?
MR. AYRES: I would only be guessing when I give you an
amount, but I'm going to say probably $35,000.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: $35,000 and netted nine million.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah, but it was catch as catch
can.
COHHISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. No problem. I understand.
MR. AYRES: We were -- You know, we were fortunate.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I understand that. The reason I
ask is sometimes our eyes grow big when the source becomes available,
and I don't disagree that the expenditures may be valid for the
county, but Commissioner Constantine's idea of a regional concept -- I
see it as an opportunity, not a liability. If I am a movie maker, I
look for typically -- and this is, again, just based on some
discussions I've had with a very limited group of people. But I'm
looking for selection. I'm looking for site. I'm looking -- you know,
there's a concept, an idea, a location that I'm looking for. By
joining with our partner to the north in an obvious 50/50-type
agreement, we can present our wares alongside theirs initially. Where
the interest then goes to either Collier or Lee, the representative
from that county takes over at that point.
So it's not a situation where -- you know, it's almost
as if you have a division of sales and you have representatives, and
we're trying to sell Southwest Florida, and when the interest begins
to go to either Collier or Lee, that individual person takes over.
So I don't see it as an elimination of one person or a
total joint effort but a way to reduce the overall cost of stepping
into that arena for us and then, of course, you know, selling our
wares when the interest is shown.
So -- you know, and I think there's some things out
there I'd like to hear answers to regarding the regional concept
before I am willing to fully support a local office. Now, if you can
show me or if someone else shows me the regional concept is not going
to work to our benefit, then I think we're back to doing it completely
on our own. But just from a functional standpoint, I think there are
too many merits to what Commissioner Constantine brought up that have
not been looked at to go ahead and appropriate funds for this at this
point, and I don't think it would take long to look at those merits
and see if they're valid.
MR. AYRES: No. As a matter of fact, the preliminary
data that we gave you in terms of budgeting was, in fact, just that,
preliminary, and what we have done subsequently is as a committee we
have sat down and begun the process of really what do we really need
to spend, and in that process was the thought that we might go to
trade shows together, and we might be able to do some things together.
So I don't disagree that there are some areas where we
can share, and I think we'll also be able to show you why in some
areas it doesn't make good sense to do that, and we will have no
problem with bringing something like that back to you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Ayres, when do you think you
could bring something like that back? Sixty days?
MR. AYRES: Oh, gee, no.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No?
MR. AYRES: No.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Sooner?
MR. AYRES: Two weeks.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Two weeks?
MR. AYRES: Oh, sure.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. AYRES: I mean, we're in the process of -- in fact,
I've got a rough draft that I was going to be reading right now but --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: In the interest of time, I'm
going to ask if Commissioner Mac'Kie would like to withdraw her motion
and substitute it with a motion to continue.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Reluctantly. I, frankly, have
enough information obviously to go forward, and I caution, you know,
for what it's worth, we're not the experts in this field, and we
should take counsel from those who have studied the issue more
carefully and thoroughly but okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: You can count to three.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me express a couple of
other concerns. Rather than simply continuing for two weeks, I'd like
to take a little different approach and, you know, let's dive into the
pursuit of how are we going to go about doing the film -- trying to
draw the film industry here. But, again, I think if we're going to
talk about TDC dollars, we need to look at the whole TDC picture. If
we're going to talk about Economic Development, we need to talk about
the entire Economic Development and not chip it away a piece at a
time.
A couple of questions, John. The proposed office shows
film liaison salary at 60 -- I'm sorry -- at 30,000; a secretary,
quarter time at 5,000; FICA; insurance; so on. MR. AYRES: Right.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: How many positions does the
EDC currently employ right know?
MR. AYRES: Not involved in this? In total?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. Currently how many?
MR. AYRES: Well, that's changed with the coalition but
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Whatever --
HR. AYRES: Three I would say. Three or four.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So are you looking at adding
-- Okay. Can you tell me what those four positions are?
MR. AYRES: Ross Hobley, Bill Neuron, Cindy Felter who
has been the primary person, and a secretary/receptionist who sort of
dabbles in everything we need help in. So it's a pretty lean little
group over there.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Agreed. The question,
though, is, are we -- Are you looking to add another person, add
another position, or is this simply supplementing --
MR. AYRES: No. We're looking at adding a full-time
person because the -- even -- and certainly we'll demonstrate this to
you when we come back with some answers on your regional concept, but
we're not looking at a budget like we often do in county or in
business where you say, well, let's -- you know, let's wack three or
four positions out of there. We have no position. So, you know, the
funding that we have here is pretty meager, and all it provides for is
one person. So even if -- Even if we're running the regional route,
somebody needs to be toured around and shown around. Cindy just spent
her entire day yesterday taking these people around for"Wreckage"
which fortunately they're going to film here, but a lot of times you
do that and you don't get the film.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm going to be very blunt.
The word that I get -- and I need you to help me with this -- MR. AYRES: Sure.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- and clear this up if it is
inaccurate -- is that Cindy has kind of filled that role along with
half a dozen other roles that she fills at the EDC. MR. AYRES: Right.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The concern is that she'll
simply slide into this, and that then becomes a position and suddenly
it is paid for out of county funds.
MR. AYRES: Well, I'll be very blunt. That's
ridiculous.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right. That's what I need to
hear.
MR. AYRES: First of all, Cindy probably will not take
the job because of other things that she has in terms of school and
her family. And, secondly, the full-time commitment now having talked
to a bunch of these people, and as you've evidenced in speaking, you
don't have much family life. I mean, once you get in the film
business, you know, you can be working 18-hour days chasing around
with these people so --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It also becomes addictive.
MR. AYRES: It's a big full-time responsibility unless
you just want to play with it. We've gotten very lucky playing with
it. So our sense is, imagine if we did this constructively and
professionally what we could accomplish.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And when we get down into the
details of -- I mean, how many tourists does the film industry attract
to Collier County?
MR. AYRES: Well, you know, I'm not personally aware of
the definition that speaks to tourists. I guess I look at --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Or business.
MR. AYRES: I -- Being involved in the tourism industry,
it's filling -- putting bodies in bags and certainly this -- our
experience with this business so far puts a lot of bodies in bags.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm sorry. That's visitors
or tourists. Obviously if they come, we don't care if they're a
tourist or here on business as long as they spend money.
MR. AYRES: Yeah. They may be here filming but,
nonetheless, they're visitors.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And, again, my concern being
twofold with TDC dollars and also doing -- using TDC dollars for
economic development. There's a balance there.
MR. AYRES: If I could make a comment, when I brought
this proposal originally to the TDC, we did not -- I did not have any
consideration walking in the room that this was going to end up
becoming category B funding. I mean, that was news -- that was news
to me. My -- My intent when we walked in the room and Jean Gansel and
I talked about it and everyone was -- in fact, Commission MAtthews, we
felt that was it was justifiably going to come out of the category C
funding. And, you know, sometimes you go in at three o'clock and you
come out at 6:00. I was surprised, quite frankly. I thought that
those available dollars there were exactly what we needed to help get
this thing started, and it certainly has all the opportunity to
attract visitors, and we should get a little help and then move on.
We also never intended that this would be the kind of
thing that the county would fund for the next 25 years. What we
needed to do is get our collateral in place and get this thing up and
running and then figure out how to support ourselves. At EDC we
certainly believe in that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What I would ask rather than
simply continuing this item for two weeks is that the board works --
someone or -- either someone from the board or someone from our staff
works specifically with you, with Beverly Fox, perhaps somebody from
the Lee TDC and sits down and sees because I think you're right.
There are certain things we cannot do together just by the nature of
the business, but I think there are many things we can. I'm not sure
we can get all those people together, sit down, and define those in a
two-week span. And I want to pursue this, but I want to pursue it
correctly.
And I took a little offense, Commissioner Mac'Kie. You
suggested that if we didn't approve the original motion, that we were
doing nothing, and Iwm not suggesting that at all. Iwm just saying
pursuing film is a great idea, but letws go about it in a little more
comprehensive manner.
MR. AYRES: Could we -- Could we set a time potentially
to --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. Hopefully we will.
MR. AYRES: -- so it doesnwt get lost in the shuffle?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Hopefully we will before this
motion is voted. Mr. Norris. Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you. I donlt favor
continuing this item for the purpose of bringing back something that
may be completely different. I think our agenda says that we have
this item to vote on today. I think the appropriate thing to do would
be to vote this item and then perhaps give direction to bring back
something modified in the future. But if we continue this item, then
the inference is that youlre going to vote on this item at some point
in the future, but thatls not whatls being discussed.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Could I make a suggestion how
we might do that?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Just a minute. Commissioner
Hancock was next.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Letls vote this one down.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think what youlre hearing and I
hope people are hearing is that there are people up here that think
this is a good idea and one we want to approach. Commissioner Norris
brought up a couple of points that are a concern of mine, that the TDC
funds is becoming a local cash cow. Welre seeing requests come in
from all angles for TDC funds because the money is there. There is
going to be I would guess a significant restructuring of that
particular ordinance in the -- in the -- I would guess coming months.
I mean, theylre -- welre just getting hit from so many angles and the
questions are becoming greater and greater and greater as we go along,
that I think we need to take -- do need to take a comprehensive look
at it, and that may very much open the door more for what welre
discussing here today. So I donlt want to get lost in this that --
you know, that the votersi confidence in our ability to apply the TDC
funds appropriately as they wish, that that gets thrown away. I think
thatls an important element, and we need to be sensitive to that, and
hopefully these two things can work in concert because I think we do
need to take a look at the allocation of those funds, the way itls
done.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a suggestion. I think
Iid agree with Commissioner Norris, in that rather than continue this
specific item, letls set that aside but I would volunteer -- Having
already had a chance to speak with a couple of the Lee commissioners
about it, Iid volunteer to work with Mr. Ayres and with the EDC in
organizing that effort and for a sit-down or sit-downs with Lee County
and maybe have a report back within a 60-day time frame on some
format. And then hopefully on a parallel course, we can begin our
discussions on the TDC dollars and on -- I think welre due for our
third quarter update from our Council of Economic Advisors in that
period as well. So I think all that can gel together on the same time
frame within 60 days, and I think that way welre all -- welre looking
at a big picture item. Welve had an opportunity to look at the
regional aspects. So I would -- Just as a suggestion, Iid volunteer
to do that and suggest that way we can have all that information at
the same time.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion to continue the
item. Mr. Ayres, when do you think you could gather the information
that was asked for? We do not meet in regular session on May the
30th. So that would be May 23 or June 6 or after that date.
MR. AYRES: Well, you know, I certainly wouldn't be
opposed to having Commissioner Constantine helping with this effort
and if June 6 would -- you know, I sort of like dates positive because
then you somehow figure out how to get it done so if that would be --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm just wondering if June 6 is
realistic.
MR. AYRES: -- agreeable -- You know, so much of the leg
work on this thing has already been done. So it's not like we're
going to start this new program. I think we've got a lot of it in
place, and we'll ask some new questions and --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hac'Kie, do you want
to amend your motion to a date certain on June 67 COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. We have a motion to
continue this item until June 6. Is there a second?
I'll second the motion and put it on the floor.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have a --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Discussion?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- question just based on
Commissioner Norris' statement. Is a continuance of this appropriate
since what we're asking for is not really the same thing?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It's going to come back in some
form.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We're asking for -- May I?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: They're asking for a film
commission, and we have asked them to go and talk with Lee County and
develop some collaborative effort between two counties and bring it
back to us, and that's what it is.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Is that a part of the motion for
a continuance? I heard a motion to continue, but I didn't hear the
other elements as a part of that motion. That's why I'm asking for
the appropriateness.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My motion is to continue. I trust
that people who want to be able to count to three in a different way
than they were able to count to three today are hearing what's going
to be necessary to enable them to get three votes. I think this is a
real simple question of a continuance being appropriate, and we've
given them instructions, and they'll come back and try to pitch
something that will sell better than this did.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie, would you
entertain as a motion maker an amendment to request Mr. Ayres enter
into collaborative talks with Lee County and develop a plan of
collaborative effort?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Where appropriate.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Where appropriate.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And to include Commissioner
Hac'Kie -- Commissioner Constantine in that and bring that plan back
to us on June 67
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The second accepts that too.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a final suggestion.
There is not an absolute urgency on this. I think to gather all those
parties and to accomplish that in three weeks --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And we may just get an update in
three weeks.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My suggestion, again, could
be to do it in a realistic time frame rather than come back and have a
half-hour discussion and say, well, we've still got to work more on
it.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: But we hear that a lot of leg
work is done and maybe we'll -- you'll be pleasantly surprised. So
let's try not to drag this any longer than we have already.
MR. AYRES: See, the problem is that the committee --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Let's not turn this into a second
Gordon River bridge.
MR. AYRES: -- and I beg your indulgence, but the
committee has spent an enormous amount of time and effort looking at
all of the ramifications of this and I don't -- certainly don't not
accept the opportunity to look at it some more, but, you know, we've
had a lot -- you know, when you look at staff people and you look at
budgets, you know, I don't know what my hourly rate is, but it's been
pretty extensive along with about 12 other people. So I do -- I would
hope we could get it done by then. And if not, you know --
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: If not, we'll hear from one of
our colleagues that it's not ready to be looked at.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah. I'm going to call the
question. All those in favor please say aye. Opposed?
Motion passes 3-2, Commissioners Constantine and Norris
being in the opposition. Thank you.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I apologize. I must scoot.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yes, sir. See you -- what -- in
about an hour, hour and fifteen minutes?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. About an hour.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Well, you may get a double
lunch.
(Commissioner Constantine exited the board room and was
absent for the remainder of the meeting.)
Item #SH1
RESOLUTION 95-327 AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION BY GIFT, PURCHASE OR
CONDEMNATION THE FEE SIMPLE TITLE FOR ROAD RIGHTS-OF-WAY FOR THE
PROJECT PARCELS REQUIRED TO COMPLETE THE CORRIDOR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS
FOR VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD FROM U.S. 41 TO AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD, CIE
PROJECT NO. 023 - ADOPTED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Next item on the agenda, we'll go
back to item 8H(1), a recommendation that the board adopt a resolution
authorizing an acquisition. Mr. Conrecode.
MR. CONRECODE: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, Tom Conrecode from your Capital Projects Office. Item 8H(1)
and 8H(2) are related, and they have to do with the extension of
Vanderbilt Beach Road between U.S. 41 and Airport Road.
8H(1) is a resolution requesting that the board agree
with staff findings of the need, necessity, and appropriateness of the
alternative location, environmental factors, cost, safety, and so on
and so forth, associated with the right-of-way and the parcels on
Vanderbilt Beach Road for road right-of-way under 8H(1).
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Excuse me, Mr. Conrecode.
MR. CONRECODE: Yes, sir.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll make a motion that we adopt
the attached resolution and authorize the chairman to execute the
resolution.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second.
Is there further discussion?
There being none, I'll call the question. All in favor
please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 4-0.
Item #8H2
RESOLUTION 95-328 AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION BY GIFT, PURCHASE OR
CONDEMNATION THE EASEMENT INTERESTS FOR SIDEWALK, LIGHTING AND
LANDSCAPE, SLOPE AND TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION PURPOSES FOR THE PROJECT
PARCELS REQUIRED TO COMPLETE THE CORRIDOR ROADWAY INTERSECTION
IMPROVEMENTS FOR VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD FROM U.S. 41 TO AIRPORT-PULLING
ROAD, CIE PROJECT NO. 023 - ADOPTED
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Madam Chairman, as a companion
item, I'd like to make a motion we adopt resolution item 8H(2).
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
adopt a resolution authorizing the acquisition of the Airport Road
property CIE Project 023.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm sorry.
MR. CONRECODE: Vanderbilt Beach Road.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Vanderbilt Beach Road.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm sorry.
MR. CONRECODE: Between U.S. 41.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm sorry. Vanderbilt Beach Road
CIE Project 023. If there's no further discussion, all those in favor
please say aye.
Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 4-0.
Item #8H3
HEDIATED SETTLEHENT OF CASE NO. 92-0758-CA-01-TB, COLLIER COUNTY V.
ENERGY RESOURCES, INC., AND AHWEEST SURETY INSURANCE COMPANY (1990
WIGGINS PASS DREDGING CASE) AND ASSOCIATED BUDGET AMENDMENT - APPROVED
Next item on the agenda is 8H(3), a recommendation that
the board review and accept a mediated settlement with Energy
Resources, Incorporated. Mr. Conrecode.
MR. CONRECODE: Yes, ma'am and Commissioners, item 8H(3)
is staff's recommendation that the board review and accept the
mediated settlement of the case between Collier County and Energy
Resources, Inc., and their surety, Amwest Surety Insurance Company.
In 1990 under bid number 90-1538, the board awarded the contract for
the maintenance dredging of Wiggins Pass. Subsequently in Hay the
board found that contractor in default and did a declaration of
contractor default. Subsequent to that, the county sued the surety
and the contractor to recover the cost to complete that work.
In the process of going to trial, the mediation
conference was held, and the outline of an agreement is what you have
in your package today. Under this, Collier County will receive
$94,000 from the surety and the contractor which is, in essence, equal
to its cost to complete the work. The -- There's a number of other
stipulations in which we would retract the declaration of default.
Both parties would exchange mutual releases and dismissals associated
with the case, and that each side would bear its own attorneys fees
and costs.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Sounds good to me, Mr. Conrecode.
It cost us 94 pay to finish it up and we're getting it from them;
right?
MR. CONRECODE: Yes, sir.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the settlement agreement. If there's no further discussion,
all those in favor please say aye. Opposed?
Motion passes 4-0, Commissioner Constantine being
absent.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: I would like to take the
opportunity to commend our staff for working on this. This could have
become a much longer and more drawn out process, and I think Mr.
Conrecode's staff deserves a hand for getting this resolved in the
manner that it was presented to us today.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: You've done a fine job.
MR. CONRECODE: I have to defer to Ramiro Manalich from
the County Attorney's Office because he's really --
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: We don't have to give him credit
if we don't want to.
MR. CONRECODE: He's the bull.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you, Ramiro.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Ramiro. Thank you,
Mr. Conrecode.
Item #9A
DISCUSSIONS RE MOTIONS TO DISMISS - PETITION A-95-2 (GIBSON RESIDENCE,
BLOCK 1, LOT 14, HIDEAWAY BEACH, MARCO ISLAND)
Next item on the agenda is item 9A on the county
attorney's report, a discussion of motions to dismiss. I understand
this is going to be a very generalized discussion; is that correct?
MR. CUYLER: It is going to be a very generalized
discussion. We're not actually going to hear the motion to dismiss.
I just wanted to give you a very brief indication of what's going on,
and some of it you haven't dealt with -- and in fact, we haven't dealt
with in terms of this kind of procedure.
As you know, there's four or five law firms that are
involved in a potential hearing next week. There have been some
motions to dismiss filed by Mr. Anderson who represents Mr. Gibson who
had a stop work order placed on his property.
The motions to dismiss Mr. Anderson wanted heard today.
I told him that I thought it was best that they be handled next week.
I told Mr. Kobza that in the event the board does favorably consider
the motions to dismiss, that since we're not hearing them this week,
he's going to have to be able to react next week if we, in fact, go
forward with those hearings at that time as scheduled.
We have never had, to my knowledge, motions to dismiss
filed in an appeal of this type, but it appears to me that a party
does have the right to argue that the board doesn't have the
jurisdiction of a certain item which is one of the motions -- the
substance of one of the motions or that an appeal was not timely
filed. We are still doing some research. We've done some research,
but that coupled with two or three other things I thought dictated
that they best be heard next week.
Just so the board is ready, it seems to me that the
scheduled hearing is probably going to take a minimum -- and I will
emphasize minimum -- of three hours, and it could go much longer than
that. We'll have to wait and see.
MR. DORRILL: I wanted to add to that, as part of the
legal aspect of this, I advised the board last week that the entire
afternoon session of the agenda is going to be reserved for this
matter as it has taken on what I'm calling O.J. Simpson proportions
with at least two of the larger law firms in the state and co-counsel
and three firms locally and firms from New York City and whatnot. The
issue here from my perspective -- and I've been doing some research
here -- needs a solution. And regardless of who's got the biggest and
baddest lawyer, it is apparent to me and the staff that the home is
seaward of where it needs to be. So we are working to develop a
compromise to relocate the house to determine the extent to which the
county has fault as a result of the staff not processing PUD
amendments from 1986 or 1987, but it seems to me that as we determine
the appropriate line, the proposal that we are working on, and then I
will be prepared to recommend to you with or without full agreement
from all the parties involved, is to recognize that the house is
seaward of where it needs to be, and we need to get and be party to a
compromise to move the home back and take additional action with
respect to a dune and vegetative line that appears to be
inappropriately excavated and to at least coordinate an appropriate
response to the illegal excavation or destroying of a sea turtle nest.
And those are the issues to which I am aware of. I have
directed the staff to process the PUD amendment, albeit eight or nine
years after the direction it was received, the last time that erosion
problems developed along the pass, and I don't mind telling you that
the direction that I'm pursuing is a compromise that will entail
moving the home back and having a minimum rear yard setback 30 feet
for the principal structures involved in this case and 20 feet for any
accessory-type structure that I'm defining to be a swimming pool and
the associated deck for that pool. All other PUD stipulations would
apply. We are exploring also relocating a portion of the road in
front of the residence, not at our expense, but as part of an
agreement and in order to seek a compromise.
And so I'm going to suggest to you that we move forward
to try and rectify the problem with the house in order to lift the red
tag that is there and to seek and recommend a compromise to you, but
those are the general lines that I intend for it to take. I have met
with both Mr. Varnadoe's firm as well as Mr. Kobza's firm. I think
it's safe to say that they are not close to an agreement of compromise
at this time, but it's certainly my desire to try and have that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: From -- Simply from a planning
perspective, it would be in our best interest to go in and reach a
compromise on the balance of the lots of Hideaway Beach that are yet
to be developed, thereby isolating the issues regarding the Gibson
residence to it in particular.
And I know you have been flooded with mail -- I've been
copied on most of it -- regarding this, and I think there is, in fact,
a compromise that could be reached that does obtain a buildable lot
down there while protecting the dune and sea grass area, and I would
encourage the county manager individually to pursue that. I think
it's a prudent direction, allows us to discuss the Gibson residence in
isolation.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Does your suggested compromise at
this point -- This is just an aside from our discussion. Does this
address the problem that Mr. Jackson would be facing also on that lot?
Would that --
MR. DORRILL: It would need to, and that's why I think
Mr. Hancock's remarks are appropriate because none of the lots, to my
knowledge, east of the Gibson residence are developed, or there are at
least four or five remaining lots that are on the pass, and we need to
have a solution that can be done in the compromise fashion that will
result -- any of the remaining buildable lots that are on the pass
itself, and that's why I've directed the PUD amendments. I think
you're going to see those the first or second Tuesday in June after
they go to the Planning Commission.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. CUYLER: And I'll just --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Another update?
MR. CUYLER: -- say for the record that I think all of
what Mr. Dotrill has just indicated -- as you know, this will be an
interpretation that's being presented to you that the setback should
-- the PUD says 50 foot. I think all of Mr. Dorrill's comments are
in light -- even if you were to find that that is exactly what the
interpretation is and exactly what the PUD says, I think that he's
indicating these things -- it's something that staff may be
recommending anyway.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. That concludes the update
on this?
MR. CUYLER: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Next week we are definitely to
bring lunch with us? Is that what we're hearing? MR. DORRILL: (Nodding head)
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, they'll solve it before
then. They've got to work out a compromise by then.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Maybe they will. Maybe they
will.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: This is Goliath versus Goliath.
MR. DORRILL: Are you volunteering your efforts --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, sir.
MR. DORRILL: -- to represent the county commission --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, sir.
MR. DORRILL: -- in a special --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let your mediation skills rise to
the surface, Commissioner Hac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Huh-uh.
MR. DORRILL: You've had enough special assignments.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: No more.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I presume, Mr. Cuyler, I'm going
to get lessons on how to be a judge between now and Tuesday?
MR. CUYLER: We're going to have to sit down and talk
about the proceeding, as I will be with the parties as well.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. CUYLER: Then we'll all at least know what's
supposed to be happening.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: There are some things about this
job that are so exciting.
Item #10A
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO INCORPORATE PENALTY LANGUAGE INTO COUNTY HANAGER'S
ORDINANCE AND BRING BACK AFTER BCC VACATION
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yes. Yes. Next item on the
agenda is item 10A, a discussion of county manager's ordinance.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This is -- This is a matter that
I think had been under discussion at the League of Women Voters and
was brought to my attention as a result of the newspaper report that
came out of the review of the Development Services Division that I did
on your behalf where one of the suggestions that I made is that
perhaps we should as commissioners be more careful that we don't step
outside the authority given to us as commissioners and policy makers
in that part of the problem that resulted in the Development Services
Division results from -- that at least the perception on the part of
staff people, that the county commission had involved itself too much
in the day-to-day operation of that division.
One of the -- One of the things that I was happy to hear
was that the league is interested in looking at what I would call
putting the teeth back in the county manager's ordinance. I have
copies -- I have copies of the county manager's ordinances
historically and presently so that you can see what in the past had
been the enforcement mechanisms that had existed in the county
manager's ordinance. And I think Miss Fitch on behalf of the league
had wanted to comment on this.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Miss Fitch.
MS. FITCH: Thank you. Dorothy Fitch representing the
League of Women Voters. We feel, as Commissioner Mac'Kie does, that
this is an appropriate time to bring up the subject of putting
strength back into the county manager's ordinance. For the record, we
are not speaking about the county manager's contract. Also, we are
not pointing a finger but do feel there is a need to restore public
confidence in our local government.
We have given this issue long and serious study actually
starting in 1975. A strong county manager was on our first board
agenda.
In the 1984 ordinance, there was strong language about
no interference regarding the appointment or removal of any of the
county manager's subordinates. This ordinance had a violation clause
punishable by fine and imprisonment.
In nineteen eighty -- In the 1987 ordinance, the fine
and imprisonment clause was still in along with the other language of
the Board of County Commissioners dealing solely with the county
manager.
However, in the 1993 ordinance, the fine and
imprisonment ruling was removed along with changing affirmative
wording from three-fifths of the entire membership of the board to a
vote of not less than three members. It was argued that this was the
same. We feel that it's not the same ethically. In 1993, we made
several other suggestions, some of which were retained, others not.
It is our sincere conviction that the reinstituting the
clause involving fine and imprisonment would, quote, "keep the air
clear," unquote. Commissioners would know where they stand and so
would the county manager. We feel it would eliminate many of the
problems which exist at this time in the administration of the
government. We support the statements made by Commissioner Mac'Kie in
her recent report to you and hope that you will put this matter on
your agenda in the near future. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Thank you, Miss Fitch. I have
one comment before we get started. Mr. Dotrill, our workshop for May
the 30th, I believe Mr. Constantine is committed to the Administrative
Code and that possibly one of the things that we may need to do, not
only consider rewording our ordinance in this matter but also consider
defining exactly what interference is.
For instance, I had a discussion with one person and
find when I really look at the literal wording in the ordinance prior
to this change, said if I had requested the appearance of Mr.
Archibald at a meeting in Willoughby Acres regarding traffic, I was in
violation of the ordinance because I requested a county employee to do
something, not just to supply information and I'm -- I, I think like
the rest of us, are making those requests all the time, that staff
attend various meetings with us as support staff to answer the
questions and so forth.
MR. DORRILL: I'd say that is probably beyond the intent
and the interpretation because a staff person who assists or attends a
public meeting is there to convey information and/or ask questions.
There was a legal opinion years ago that was prepared as a result of a
request from former Commissioner Saunders who directed a county
employee to put something on the board agenda and was done without my
knowledge in that case, and I think we determined that it is probably
appropriate to ask -- a commissioner to ask for something to be put on
the agenda. It is certainly helpful for that commissioner to advise
the manager of that so that I can be prepared and anticipate it when I
see the agenda item.
So I think some interpretational rules would be very
helpful, especially to the staff, if we could define specifically what
the intent of the board is. I think that it is certainly the intent
of the entire board not to give even the appearance of improperly
interfering or intimidating the staff in any way. And if we can do
that, I think it -- it certainly will relieve the anxiety on the part
of the staff and will give you the latitude that you need to be able
to answer constituent questions and get information that is important
to you in order to be effective to do your job.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: This --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: This may well be something,
though, that we can handle incorporated within the Administrative Code
that we'll be discussing May 30. So that that's one of my concerns,
is that we -- if we're going to make this change, that we not make it
so confining that we find yourselves having to channel every request
through the county manager's office, and that's just going to inundate
him with a lot of paperwork that he's not going to appreciate. Mr.
Cons -- Mr. Hancock. I'm sorry. Commissioner Hancock.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: It's always been my understanding
-- and maybe some people on this board have a problem with this, but
just to pick him out, if I asked Mr. Arnold -- if I tell Mr. Arnold,
"I want you to do 'X,"' he can tell me, "Go fly a kite," you know.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But would he? Is he likely to do
that, Tim?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: But the bottom line is I cannot
remove him by myself. I cannot -- I mean, I just understand that
that's not my responsibility nor can I physically do it. And it's
okay, Wayne. You haven't told me to go fly a kite. I want to clarify
that. But I'm not his boss. That to me is very, very clear, nor do I
have any desire to act as his boss. If I have a problem with an
employee's performance, I'm going to talk to Mr. Dotrill, and I don't
think we've even had one of those discussions.
So I guess I'm a little unclear -- if someone is out
there running roughshod, then, you know, go after that individual but
let's -- you know, to -- to -- you know, I have no problem with
looking at this. I just -- I guess I'm at a loss as to, you know,
where's the misunderstanding? It's very clear to me. It's been very
clear to me and will continue.
So, you know, I have a problem looking at something that
has no enforceability. And, you know, talking about going after
someone through legal channels, well, who's going to prove it, who's
going to bring it forward, who's going to push the issue, I mean,
those are all functional questions that I -- that may be difficult to
answer. So I'm happy to take a look at this. I guess -- I guess I
just have a problem identifying -- if somebody doesn't understand
this, give it to them in plain English and see if the problem corrects
itself.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I like the idea you mentioned,
Commissioner Matthews, about incorporating some more detail other --
you know, that the county manager's ordinance just says, you know,
thou shalt not do anything except for inquire and get information, and
I agree, Commissioner Hancock, that's about as clear as -- as --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It's pretty clear.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Indeed, that's pretty darn clear.
But I think that we might want to amend the ordinance or perhaps
adopt some administrative rules to clarify that and that that makes a
lot of sense. But the one -- The concern that I have is that staff
people are not likely to say, "Go fly a kite, Mr. Hancock," even
though they have the right to do that and you wouldn't be shocked if
they did that. It's just -- It has caused problems, and I'd be glad
to talk to you about, you know, what I think those problems have been.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Maybe it's the way I frame it
because I can give you two examples. I had a constituent -- I mean,
something as minor as shower heads at Vanderbilt Beach. They wanted a
pull chain because they couldn't reach the button and it was always
the two were point -- I wrote Mr. Olliff a memo in kind of tongue in
cheek and said, hey, can you, you know, take a look at this, see if
you can fix it. I get a memo back saying it's taken care of. It was
done. Now, for me to have to send that through the county manager's
office which seems ridiculous to me --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That was my suggestion that in
the Administrative Code we define --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- what --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- what interference is.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. Because the flip side is
that I've asked Mr. Archibald -- you know, "I've got this request.
Can we do something about it?" And his response has come back to me
and said, "No. We don't have the money." Okay. I've got the answer.
You know, so be it.
Now, if I then go saying, "Well, it's your job," or,
"You do something about it," I am clearly in the wrong and it's in
this ordinance that I'm in the wrong, and it's a violation, and that's
where I say the clarity to me is there, and maybe it is just a conduct
definition that we need in an administrative code. I don't know.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If I could just finish my comment
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's okay -- that -- that --
one thing just for your information. The legal opinion that Mr.
Dotrill referred to was one of the attachments to that thick report
that I gave you last week if anybody wants, you know, to have that
handy. I think for me the most important part of this is public
confidence, public trust, public assurance that we know what the rules
are and we're willing to play by them and we want to reaffirm that.
So I think that that -- I think there's a need for that public
reassurance and from a good government perspective.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I certainly think that if
there's any lack of clarity in the ordinance, that we should take a
look at clarifying what it is, although, as Commissioner Hancock has
stated, I feel comfortable knowing what my -- how far my authority
stretches.
My concern is one of typical reaction to a perceived
problem. Sometimes the tendency is to go in and go overboard in
re-regulating and formulating new regulations that you don't know what
the -- before you know what the final ramifications of all those new
regulations would be. I think our county manager's ordinance does
obviously give the county manager the status of the League of Women
Voters strong manager definition. But, once again, if there's any
clarification needed, fine, let's do that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, I agree that the ordinance
as it exists does give us a strong manager. The problem that they're
pointing out to us -- and I certainly see it -- is that if someone
chooses to violate this ordinance, there's nothing that can be done
about it. There are no penalties. It just merely says you shant do
it, but it doesn't say what's going to happen if you do and -- and
there is -- therein lies the problem.
We've said that we're not going to do something. We've
even said that this ordinance prohibits you from doing it, but like
any ordinance, if it prohibits you from doing something, there should
be a penalty attached to it for having done it, whatever that might
be, and right now we have an ordinance that, in effect, is not an
ordinance because there are no penalties ascribed to having violated
it.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Can I ask Mr. Cuyler if you
violate a county ordinance, is there nothing that can be done?
MR. CUYLER: There is a violation of county ordinance.
They're generally treated as misdemeanors, but in this case and in the
case of a number of our ordinances, there's two things. First of all,
it doesn't provide a penalty in the ordinance which you normally do if
you're going to penalize somebody for a violation. And, secondly, the
board has specifically removed that. If, for example, you came to me
and said, "There's an allegation I did this. Would you go to the
State Attorney's Office, see if there's any chance there could be a
prosecution?" I'd tell the State Attorney's Office. They'd say, "No.
We're not going to prosecute this." I'm fairly certain, because they
would say there is no criminal penalty. Your enforcement mechanism
could be through some civil injunction or mandamns or something along
those lines.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I appreciate the effort on the
part of the League of Women Voters, Commissioner Hac'Kie. I just fear
that a -- I guess that somebody needs to say this. I feel like
there's a bit of a witch hunt out there, because problems have come to
the surface, so let's kill them, and I'm reminded of the same reason
we are now dealing with difficulties of the Sunshine Law in that it
was a good idea at the time, that we needed something to fix the
problems that were going on in Hillsborough County and behind closed
doors, and then the application of that now has a situation which I
can't even talk to constituents about things that are coming before
this board if they're -- you know.
So I guess that's why I'm very uneasy about -- you know,
and obviously I have no question about proceeding. I just don't want
to be regulation-happy and hammer-happy if we're going to turn around
and handcuff ourselves to a point that we cannot at least do what our
constituents ask us to do, and that's where I'm having an uneasy
feeling, not with the idea of moving ahead, but I'm having a tough
time seeing the end product at this point, and I'm a little uneasy
with that.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I just respond to the witch
hunt thing? That I'm certainly -- and I'm confident the league's not
and I'm certainly not on a witch hunt. I am, however, troubled by the
fact that we have -- we have an ordinance that regulates us and we
took the penalty out. What kind of -- COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: They.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I know, but, you know, the board
is regulated by this ordinance -- CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: You are now we.
COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: -- and the board removed the
penalty, and that's a bad public perception. I think that we need to
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Agreed. Agreed.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: -- we need to confirm our
commitment to it by reinstating a penalty. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No question.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Are you suggesting an official
Collier County gallows or something to that effect?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: No. A $500 fine would do though.
I think it might get people's attention.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: So I guess then we're at a
closure on this. Do we want to direct the County Attorney's Office to
produce an ordinance with wording reinserted, and plus he's got to
advertise it and so forth. We'll be discussing it again on a --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was my intention.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- Tuesday afternoon.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's what I'm asking for today.
MR. CUYLER: It would probably be after your vacation.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: After vacation?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Again, I do want to stress --
thank you for bringing this up because, you know, again, we do have to
deal with the public perception problem, and let's just make sure the
hammer doesn't stop what it's not supposed to stop.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, based on Mr. Cuyler's
comment that we'll be discussing this is in a public hearing after
vacation which will be sometime in July and our next workshop is Hay
30 where we'll be discussing the Administrative Code, hopefully we can
get it all to gel and produce something that's useful and worthwhile.
So we can assume that that's direction to Mr. Cuyler
that he's to go ahead and do that? MR. CUYLER: Yes, ma'am.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm comfortable with that.
Item #12C1
RESOLUTION 95-329 RE PETITION AV-94-023 JOHN F. MADAJEWSKI AS AGENT FOR
OWNER, STERLING OAKS JOINT VENTURE, REQUESTING VACATION OF A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT LOCATED ON A PORTION OF LOTS 83 AND 84, TRACT E - ADOPTED
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Next item on the agenda,
we'll move into the afternoon items. We can probably -- I can't even
see what time it is.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
to leave about one o'clock.
12:30.
12:307
Yeah.
Okay. Commissioner Mac'Kie needs
I think we can probably finish these up.
The next item on the agenda is item 12C(1), Petition AV-94-023.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a quick question. Isn't this
typically a consent kind of -- consent agenda kind of item?
MR. MULLER: No. There are statutory requirements for a
public hearing. Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the record, my
name is Russ Mullet with the Transportation Services Division. Item
12C(1) is a public hearing for Petition AV-94-023 for the vacation --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Mullet, can I interrupt you
and ask you to get on the record what you need to get on the record
for the public hearing process? MR. HULLER: Certainly.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there speakers?
MR. DORRILL: No, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: In other words, Russ, you're not
going to have a lot of resistance here so let's -- Is there anything
you need to say specifically for the record?
MR. HULLER: A resolution was prepared according to the
Statutes 177.101. Staff recommends approval.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is the replacement drainage
easement within these documents?
MR. HULLER: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. DORRILL: Have the associated notices for all the
other regulated utilities been received that may also have a common
need here and they're stating no objection?
MR. HULLER: Right. Letters of no objection have been
received from Project Plan Review and the homeowners association which
is responsible for bringing that.
MR. DORRILL: That's probably all he needs to say.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: There are no public speakers.
MR. DORRILL: No, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'll close the public hearing.
Is there a motion?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to approve Petition
AV-94-023 per staff's recommendation. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion and a second to
approve Petition AV-94-023. If there's no discussion, call the
question. All in favor please say aye.
Motion passes 4-0, Commissioner Constantine being
absent.
Item #13A2
RESOLUTION 95-330 RE PETITION SPA-95-1, J. D. ALLEN REPRESENTING JOE
DIHASSIHO REQUESTING APPROVAL OF SHARED PARKING ON LOT 21 OF CARINI'S
AUTO IN ORDER TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE PARKING FOR TEO'S RESTAURANT LOCATED
ON LOTS 22 AND 23 OF THE J & C INDUSTRIAL PARK - ADOPTED SUBJECT TO
STIPULATIONS OF PAYING THE ADDITIONAL IMPACT FEES AND LIMITING 25
SPACES AT ALL TIMES TO TEO'S RESTAURANT
Next item on the agenda is a petition for item 13A(2),
Petition SPA-95-1. Mr. Cuyler, one of the participants in this
petition is a client of mine, and I do receive compensation from him,
and I presume that I do need to abstain from this? MR. CUYLER: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And this is a majority vote, a
simple majority vote?
MR. CUYLER: Correct.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are three votes or two votes
sufficient?
MR. CUYLER: That would be two out of the three votes.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Two out of the three votes
available.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: You people with other jobs.
MR. HULHERE: Good afternoon. For the record, Bob
Hulhere with your Current Planning staff. Petition SPA-95-1 is a
request by J.D. Allen representing Joe Dimassimo for shared parking on
a lot adjacent to Teo's Restaurant. The applicant is actually
requesting approval to share a total of 34 off-site parking spaces.
Petitioner seeks to increase the number of seats within the existing
restaurant from 100 to 150 so that he can obtain a four-COP beverage
license which would allow for distribution for on-premise consumption
of alcoholic beverages, beer, wine, and alcohol.
And staff has reviewed this petition with relation to
all of the criteria in the code for shared parking, and the Planning
Commission heard this petition on April 20 and unanimously recommended
approval of the petition. Staff is prepared to answer any questions
you might have regarding this petition.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Are there questions? Commissioner
Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Hulhere, in your investigation
of this, did you check to see if there was proper spacing between such
things as schools, day care centers and so forth? MR. HULHERE: Yes, sir.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: That's part of that?
MR. HULHERE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Hancock.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Mr. Hulhere, on your site visits
to Carini's, obviously auto sales, if he gets a real big shipment in,
boy, they -- you know, they can fill up those 34 spaces in a hurry.
So how would we address that, and what do the site visits show in that
regard?
MR. HULHERE: Well, I was there, in fact, this morning,
and the lot -- the lot which is the subject which is to be shared,
those 34 spaces was currently occupied by a sale of vehicles. In
discussing with the applicant, if this is approved, they will vacate
those spaces that are the subject of this shared parking petition.
They will remain open to be used by patrons of the restaurant.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: How can we be assured of that,
that that will be the case?
MR. HULHERE: Well, we can certainly put it in as a
stipulation into the body of the resolution. We do have another
stipulation that we have to add which I wanted to make you aware of
which is that the applicant has agreed to obviously pay impact fees as
may be appropriate based on the intensified use or the proposed 150
seats. You can certainly also add a stipulation. Basically currently
the restrictive covenant in the shared parking agreement states that
if the -- if the lease should fail for any reason, he has to reduce
the seating capacity to what's provided for with the on-site parking.
We can certainly add a stipulation that those spaces remain free and
clear. Again, it's going to be an enforcement issue.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Agreed. Agreed. But it would be
a specific enforcement issue.
MR. HULHERE: We can put that right into the body of the
resolution.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: What are the minimum number of
additional parking spaces that his establishment requires?
MR. HULHERE: Twenty-five.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Twenty-five.
MR. HULHERE: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. So we can make a
stimulation that 25 of the shared parking spaces shall not be used for
the purpose of storage of --
MR. HULHERE: That's correct.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- sale vehicles for Carini's
Auto Sales.
MR. HULHERE: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. HULHERE: And they will be bringing that site up to
compliance with today's code for landscaping and handicapped. They do
have to add one other handicapped space, and that will be done on
site.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Good.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Hulhere, my understanding is
that Carini's is leasing this lot to Teo's; is that correct? MR. HULHERE: Yes. That is correct.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that's -- that's your
control right there because if Teo's is going to lease it, he's going
to want it.
MR. HULHERE: Presumably. Presumably if he's going to
pay to lease the lot, he's going to want it open free and clear for
parking spaces.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: There would be very little sense
in him paying Carini lease payments on something that Carini was
using.
MR. HULHERE: Correct.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Mr. Dorrill, are there speakers?
There are no speakers. Further discussion? Close the public hearing.
Is there a motion?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I agree with your logic --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: With the stipulation -- with the
stipulation assigned to the resolution.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That I --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Hancock's stipulation.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Plus the second stipulation that
you had noted.
MR. HULHERE: That they would pay the appropriate impact
fees based on the intensified use.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a motion. We have a
second. The motion is for staff -- the staff recommendation plus
payment of the appropriate impact fees plus a limiting -- that 25
spaces be available to Teo's Restaurant at all times; is that correct?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes. And 25 spaces not be used
by Carini's Auto Sales for storage. That was specifically my concern.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: If there's no further discussion,
I'll call the question. All those in favor please say aye. Opposed?
There being none, motion passes 3-0.
MR. HULHERE: Thank you.
Item #14 (1)
VOTING REQUIREMENTS FOR ADVISORY BOARD RE GROWTH MANAGEMENT - COUNTY
ATTORNEY TO BRING BACK AN AMENDMENT TO RESOLUTION OF CAC RE SIMPLY
MAJORITY OF A QUORUM PRESENT OF NOT LESS THAN 17 MEMBERS
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That concludes the agenda for
today. We are at communications, board communication items.
Commissioner Norris?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
No.
Commissioner Hancock?
No.
Commissioner Mac'Kie?
None.
I have one item that I discussed
this morning somewhat, and this deals with the Citizen Advisory
Committee. I've been made aware that the quorum for the CAC is 13
members, and at the same time I've been made aware that in order for
this advisory committee to take any action, it must also have a vote
of 13 members. So in the event that they just barely have a quorum to
do anything, they're going to have to have 100 percent yes vote, and
I'm wondering if that was the intent of whether the motion would
merely need to receive a majority of those present.
MR. CUYLER: You can legally do it either way. I think
there is always a concern, particularly with committees that haven't
been formed for very long and you don't know what their track record
is, that if only, for example, seven people show up and you have four
people dictating policies --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: But they have a quorum of 13.
MR. CUYLER: Correct. Well, okay. Well, say 13 show up
and you have seven people, that is only a fraction of the total group,
but nevertheless can dictate the policies of the committee, but it's
really a policy decision. I mean, legally you can do that. Two of
you can decide an issue. If three people show up, you have a quorum,
two people can make a decision for the Board of County Commissioners.
It depends on how you want to handle it. I guess according to what
you're saying, the current -- what's in there now is that the minimum
necessary vote for approval is the same as the quorum vote.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is the same as the quorum, yeah.
MR. CUYLER: Yeah. That would have to be changed if you
wanted it changed, but legally you can do it either way.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I'm just asking the board if that
may be a bit restrictive on this task force to have to attain a level
of 13 votes in order to do anything.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS:
committee?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
COHMISSIONER NORRIS:
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK:
What is the total number on the
Twenty-five.
Twenty-five.
Twenty-five.
Yeah. It's a valid point, that
if they're less than full capacity, that makes it difficult to arrive
at a decision. I think that's a reasonable assumption. Do we want to
make it a simple majority of those present?
MR. CUYLER: And there's a middle ground too. You can
set another number -- CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We could say two-thirds of those
present.
MR. CUYLER: -- and you could say ten or you could say
it takes nine or you could say a majority of those present. Any of
those are legal options for you.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Any one of those. But it is an
ordinance we have -- or is it a resolution? It's a task force, isn't
it?
MR. CUYLER: I think it's a resolution.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It's a task force.
MR. CUYLER: I think it's a resolution which could be
changed at any meeting. I could add it next Tuesday if you wanted.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: If we have 25 members and we have
a problem getting 13 to come, I think our other control would be that
we need to make some adjustments on the committee immediately because
the reason we appointed 25 is to have a broad cross-section of the
community. If we're not doing that, if we're not getting that, then
we need to take steps to ensure that we do. So there's really two
ways that we could control how many people are voting on an item.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: By making ourselves aware that
attendance is not what it ought to be. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Right.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And to act quickly to replace
members.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Exactly. And that may be the more
appropriate way of doing it, although having 13 out of 13 does -- in
that particular case would be a little restrictive, you know.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I would think at any given time,
out of a 25-member board, you're -- you may have four or five that are
not in attendance, and so even to get 13 out of 20 is quite a feat
sometimes.
MR. CUYLER: Commissioner Norris really pointed out the
problem. If you have the same people showing up and some people
aren't, then you get a small vote that can dictate the way the
committee goes, but it's up to you.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Maybe we should increase the
quorum and leave -- you know, do we want recommendations from this
group if only 13 show up, or would we like to have 20 or -- you know,
Some '-
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: But then they're not going to be
able to meet if you make the quorum too high.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If the members we've appointed
aren't interested in attending, they won't be able to meet.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But if they are --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Is this the standard two-meeting
requirement for non-attendance, Mr. Cuyler?
MR. CUYLER: I'm not sure whether -- Generally yes.
It's -- It would be under the master ordinance. There are no specific
attendance requirements because it's a resolution.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: And this committee is of short
duration. You know, we've got to do something that's going to let it
move very quickly.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let me propose something and see
where we go with it. How about changing it to a simple majority of a
quorum present to constitute no fewer than 17 members.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Huh?
COHHISSIONER HANCOCK: What I'm saying is let's increase
-- let's increase the quorum so that we -- if we don't have enough
participation, then we don't have an acting body, but let's just have
a simple majority of that quorum making the decision.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. So you're suggesting we
increase the quorum to 17 and a simple majority?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm just talking about 17 to see
what the rest of the board -- That way if, you know, six or seven or
even eight of the -- you know, you're talking one-third of the members
are not there, we still have quorum, but if it gets much beyond that,
I think we have a problem.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We probably shouldn't be meeting.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: So my suggestion is a simple
majority of a quorum present to be a minimum of 17 people.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It sounds like we want to
increase the quorum to 17 and the voting to a simple majority.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Exactly.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I like that.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Can we -- We're in the
communication part of this. I guess we have to give you direction to
bring that back Tuesday.
MR. CUYLER: I'll bring it back.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I see a worried face back there.
UNKNOWN: (Shaking head.)
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: No? Okay. Never mind then.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think that may conclude it from
the commission. Mr. Dotrill, you have a communication item?
Item #15
STAFF COHMUNICATION
HR. DORRILL: A couple of things. The county open
house, "Know Your Government Day" program was this past Saturday at
the mall, and it was huge, huge success.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It was great.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes, it was.
MR. DORRILL: In fact, we ran out of space for some of
the sheriff's exhibits, and I need to call him and apologize because
Dillards wouldn't let the guard dog that close to their front door,
and the SWAT team could not display all of their equipment and
whatnot, and the SWAT team and the K-9 patrols were the two of the
biggest draws last year, and we need to make sure that the sheriff
understands and appreciates our concern, but there were several
thousand people.
One person left a letter that is just like two
sentences, and I want to read it to you. I think this is indicative
of the spirit. It's to the commissioners.
"The displays at the mall were very informative and
especially for children. It's always good to inform your public.
After living here for over 20 years, I finally see some hope for
Collier County government. I'll keep watching. Roy Riggs." And I
intend to write Mr. Riggs a nice note of appreciation.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think with that note, I'd write
him a nice note too. That's great.
MR. DORRILL: On your behalf. A couple of reminders.
In January the board directed us to set up a major water-related
workshop with the South Florida Water Management District. I'm only
reminding you because I've been told preliminarily that two or three
of you may not be able to attend. And even if you can only come for
the first hour or down until 1:30 or almost two o'clock -- This was a
big deal to you in January and, in turn, to Ms. Boyd who is bringing
the governing board of the South Florida Water Management District
over here. And even if you can only be there at the start, the first
item on the agenda and perhaps the most important is water resources
county perspectives, and I think it's important for us to have a good
showing. I would hate to go to our own workshop and have just me and
two commissioners sitting there.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: The date?
MR. DORRILL: Tomorrow --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Tomorrow.
MR. DORRILL: -- afternoon at 1:00 p.m., and it will
probably run until almost 5:00. But even if your appearance is just
brief, it's -- these people have gone to a lot of trouble to bring the
Water Management District to Bonita. I don't want to fuss at y'all,
but it's important for us to have a good showing there.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: I may be there late, but I will
be there for the duration.
MR. DORRILL: Okay.
COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Up to an hour late, but I will be
there until it's done.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: This is at the Lion's Club in
Bonita?
MR. DORRILL: Yes. And I have a map with me. If any of
you need a copy of the map, I'll make them available with Ms. Filson.
Just a clarification. Again, anticipating a long
meeting for next Tuesday. I received a note and we've discussed with
Sue briefly that there was a request for the board to have a working
brown bag lunch next Tuesday with the Black Affairs Advisory Board and
I was -- I didn't know whether the full board was aware or had
discussed that or whether we had promised the Black Affairs Group
specifically this day. I'm just -- I'm telling you the logistics of
that may be rough if you're going to be here for a very lengthy
meeting.
COHHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I had a telephone call from Henry
Tribble, you know, looking forward to that meeting on that day. I --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I had the same discussion with
Bob Bennett. So I think we're -- I think we have -- we have
identified it and we're locked into it.
MR. DORRILL: Okay. I just --
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think we're locked into it at
this point.
MR. DORRILL: I'm going to show then for Sunshine
purposes on the agenda index that you will be having a working brown
bag lunch that would be open to the public in lieu of your normal
recess. And I think that's all that I have that's important.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Anybody want to take a collection
for a sandwich platter?
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I'm having pizza brought in.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Well, that's good too. Mr.
Cuyler.
MR. CUYLER: I'm trying to get my hands on any
legislation that's been passed. We'll try to update you as quickly as
I can. I was told at a seminar I attended that the quasi-judicial
legislation dealing with constituents meeting with the board members,
under certain requirements that the board members disclose and such,
did pass. I haven't seen the legislation, but I was told that it did
pass.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: It did pass?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It did pass?
MR. CUYLER: Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Good. That will make life
easier.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That will make life easier. That
would make life harder for us.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: On that direction, it's not bad.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We have to stay up for about 30
more seconds so he can get enough footage to show this evening. No?
Okay. Never mind.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Never mind. He's taking footage
of the wall. Miss Filson, we're finished; right?
WORKSHOP RE 1994 COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT - CONTINUED TO
8:30 A.H. MAY 30, 1995 AT THE LIBRARY ON CENTRAL AVENUE
MS. FILSON: You have a workshop.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We have a workshop?
MS. FILSON: After lunch.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That's right. Take a full hour?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me talk about that workshop
for a minute. But, first, Mr. Dotrill, I started this conversation
with South Florida Water Management District, and unfortunately I had
a commitment on my calendar for tomorrow long standing before this
meeting was called so I can't make it even though I'm the one who
started this whole discussion. So I'm going to have to send a letter
of apology to Ms. Boyd on that one.
On this one, I'm not sure why we're having a workshop --
Maybe someone can answer it for me -- a workshop on our Comprehensive
Annual Financial Report which seems to be a very straightforward
document. Why do we need a workshop on this?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: The clerk had asked for that a
couple of weeks ago. You were absent that day when the CAFR was
presented on the agenda, and you had asked also for that item to be
continued, and we decided that since all we were going to do was
accept it and have a workshop at a later date, that we would go ahead
and accept it in spite of your request to continue the acceptance of
it.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Have we ever had a workshop
on it before?
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: No.
MR. DORRILL: No.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I mean, it seems to be a very
straightforward document.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: I think there's some explanations
that they want to discuss as to continuing items in the representation
and the management letter. It can be, I guess, as short or as long as
we wish it to be.
MR. DORRILL: Or if that's the only reason you're coming
back -- and this is at your discretion. You have a workshop scheduled
three Tuesdays from today, and not knowing if it's going to be a long
presentation or if there would be a lot of questions -- we've got a
fairly well developed agenda for that meeting already that I reviewed
with Ms. Matthews but if -- That's just an alternative if y'all don't
want to have to come back after lunch.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: That agenda is already going to
cover -- going to carry us from 9:00 -- MR. DORRILL: Until noon.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- until noon. If you wish to
have it expanded a half-hour and start it at 8:30 or to have it go
until 12:30, we can certainly request the clerk to do that.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, it seems to me it would be
more effective use of our time. At this point we're -- CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: We're at break.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We're at break and then we would
have to come back for a 30-minute presentation. I don't know that
that would be worthwhile, but it's up to the board. That's my
suggestion. I would just as soon come in at 8:30 on that workshop day
and hear it then as to come back today and hear it.
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yeah. Let's do that.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to continue.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: Motion to continue to --
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS: -- 8:30 or to 12 o'clock?
MR. DORRILL: 8:30 is fine with me.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER HANCOCK:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
CHAIRPERSON MATTHEWS:
8:30 is fine with me.
8:30 is fine?
Yeah.
Ms. Mac'Kie?
It works for me.
Okay. Motion to continue the
CAFR report until 8:30. All those in favor? Opposed?
Passes 4-0. We're adjourned.
***** Commissioner Hancock moved, seconded by Commissioner Mac'Kie
and carried unanimously, that the following items under the
Consent Agenda approved and/or adopted: *****
Item #16A1
RESOLUTION 95-321 PROVIDING FOR ASSESSHENT OF LIEN FOR THE COST OF THE
REPAIR OR DEMOLITION OF A DANGEROUS HAZARDOUS BUILDING, COMPLIANCE
SERVICES CASE NO. 40816-007, RECORD OWNER - MABEL H. & VICTOR CHARLES
ALBRECHT
See Pages
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 95-322 PROVIDING FOR ASSESSHENT OF LIEN FOR THE COST OF THE
ABATEMENT OF A PUBLIC NUISANCE, COMPLIANCE SERVICES CASES NO.
40831-019, RECORD OWNER - MARCO CASTAWAYS RESORT, INC.
See Pages
Item #16A3
RESOLUTION 95-323 GRANTING FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE ROADWAY, DRAINAGE,
WAER AND SEWER IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF IHMOKALEE AGRICOH
PARK, PHASE TWO - WITH THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITY
See Pages
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 95-324 GRANTING FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE ROADWAY, DRAINAGE,
WATER AND SEWER IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF AUDUBON COUNTRY
CLUB, UNIT TWO
See Pages
Item #16A5
RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF TIHBER RIDGE, UNIT TWO - WITH
STIPULATIONS AND TWO LETTERS OF CREDIT AND A CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
See Pages
Item #16A6
WATER FACILITIES ACCEPTANCE FOR HEATHERWOOD AT STONEBRIDGE, TRACT D -
WITH STIPULATIONS AND CASH DEPOSIT AS SURETY
OR Book Pages
Item #16A7
SEWER FACILITIES ACCEPTANCE FOR STONEBRIDGE, UNIT ONE, PUMP STATION #2
- WITH STIPULATIONS
OR Book Pages
Item #16A8
WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES ACCEPTANCE FOR MIDDLEBURG AT STONEBRIDGE,
TRACT B - WITH STIPULATIONS
OR Book Pages
Item #16A9
ACCEPTANCE OF REPLACEMENT MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE FORM OF A
PERFORMLANCE BOND FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE WITHIN SIENNA AT SOUTHAMPTON
AND ENTER INTO A SUPPLEMENTAL CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
WITH THE DEVELOPER
See Pages
Item #16A10
AUTHORIZATION FOR RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF LUTZ INDUSTRIAL
Item #16C1
PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTHENT TO OPERATE AN ADDITIONAL SUHMER CAMP AS
A TRIAL THIS SUHMER FOR MIDDLE SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN AND AUTHORIZATION
FOR THE ASSOCIATED BUDGET AMENDMENT
Item #16El
RFP #95-2340 FOR AN EMPLOYEE ASSISTANCE PROGRAM - AWARDED TO DAVID
LAWRENCE CENTER, INC., D/B/A EMPLOYEE ASSISTANCE SERVICE OF SW FLORIDA
IN THE AMOUNT OF $15.00 PER EMPLOYEE PER YEAR
Item #16E2
BID #95-2349 FOR REPLACING THE EMERGENCY GENERATOR AT THE IHMOKALEE
COUNTY BARN FACILITY - AWARDED TO BENTLEY ELECTRIC COMPANY INCORPORATED
IN THE AMOUNT OF $20,900
Item #16F1
APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO PROPERLY ACCOUNT FOR THE EXPENDITURE
OF FUNDS ON THE 800 HHZ RADIO SYSTEM PROJECT
Item #16G1
APPROVAL OF CERTIFICATES OF CORRECTION TO THE 1993, 1994 AND 1995 SOLID
WASTE SPECIAL ASSESSMENT ROLLS
See Pages
Item #1662
RESOLUTION 95-325 ADDING UNITS TO THE 1995 COLLIER COUNTY MANDATORY
SOLID WASTE COLLECTION SPECIAL ASSESSMENT ROLL AND AUTHORIZATION FOR
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE CERTIFICATES OF CORRECTION
See Pages
Item #16H1 - Deleted
Item #16H2
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO FUND THE NORTH COUNTY REGIONAL WATER TREATMENT
PLANT PUMPING STATION AND FORCE MAIN PROJECT UNDER NEW PROJECT NUMBER
70030 WHICH REPLACES OLD PROJECT NUMBER 70002
Item #16H3
BID 95-2342 FOR THE LEASE PURCHASE OF A HIGH VOLUME PRINTER - AWARDED
TO SIEMENS NIXDORF PRINTING SYSTEMS IN THE AMOUNT OF $31,400
Item #16J
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following Miscellaneous Correspondence presented to the BCC
has been filed and/or referred to the various departments as indicated
on the Miscellaneous Correspondence.
Item #16J1
SATISFACTIONS OF LIEN FOR SERVICES OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER
See Pages
There being no further business for the Good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair at 12:50 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
BETTYE J. MATTHEWS, CHAIRPERSON
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING
BY: Christine E. Whitfield, RPR