CLB Minutes 03/18/2009 R
March 18, 2009
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CONTRACTOR'S LICENSING BOARD
OF COLLIER COUNTY
Naples, Florida
March 18,2009
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing
Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with
the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Richard Joslin
Michael Boyd
Eric Guite'
Lee Horn
Terry Jerulle
Thomas Lykos
ALSO PRESENT:
Patrick Neale, Attorney for the CLB
Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney
Michael Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor
Page 1
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
DATE WEDNESDAY - MARCH 18, 2009
TIME 9:00 AM.
W HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION BUILDING)
COURTHOUSE COMPLEX
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I ROLL CALL
II ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III APPROVAL OF AGENDA
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
DATE: FEBRUARY 18, 2009
V. DISCUSSION
End of the Month Report - February 2009
VI NEW BUSINESS
Earl A. Carron III - Contesting Citation
Noel Agosto, Jr. - Review of Credit Report
Dennis Gibbs - Contesting Citation (PENALTY PAID)
Cedric Eckenrode - Contesting Citation
Alberto Trevino - Contesting Citation
VII OLD BUSINESS
Calvert N. Courtney II - Third Party Balance Sheet & Profit Loss Statement
VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS
Case #2009-05
Charles C. Willey
D/B/A: B & W Paving Contractors of S.W FL., Inc.
Case #2009-06
Jesus Segura-Ortega
D/B/A: Screen Man of S.W FL., Inc.
IX REPORTS:
X. NEXT MEETING DATE
WEDNESDAY APRIL 15, 2009
W HARMON TURNER BUILDING, 3RD FLOOR
(COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM)
3301 E TAMIAMI TRAIL
NAPLES, FL. 34112
(COURTHOUSE COMPLEX)
March 18, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'd
like to call the meeting of the March 18th Collier County Contractor
Licensing Board to order.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore,
may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made,
which record includes that testimony and evidence which the appeal is
to be based.
I'd like to open the meeting with roll call starting to my right.
MR. JERULLE: Terry Jerulle.
MR. L YKOS: Tom Lykos.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Richard Joslin.
MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd.
MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'.
MR. HORN: Lee Horn.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Good morning, everyone.
Just for an opening statement real quick before we get too far
into this, I've been asked to just mention real quickly that all the
members on the board, please make sure that you are speaking clearly
into your microphones, number one.
And also, the Chair will recognize any questions that you may
have from some of the respondents. Because what we're doing is,
we're getting into too many questions going on at one time and
answers are being sent and the court reporter has a very difficult time
trying to transcribe all this information into the minutes of the
recordings. And as you know, we have to have this in verbatim, so
let's be very careful on how we ask the questions.
If you have a question, just you can either hit me or nudge me or
raise your hand or something of that nature and we'll recognize you
for the questions, okay?
Also, it makes it easier for the TV cameras, which we're on
media. Everyone knows that we are on camera, and for the cameras to
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March 18, 2009
zoom in on the person that is asking the questions. Okay?
All right. Is there any additions or deletions to the agenda?
MR. JACKSON: Good morning. For the record, Ian Jackson,
Collier County Contractor Licensing.
Under new business, Cedric Eckenrode, contesting a citation,
will be dismissed.
Again, under new business, Alberto Trevino requests a
continuance for the hearing to be moved to April.
And under public hearings, Case No. 2009-06 will be
withdrawn, please.
And that's it for staff.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Anyone else have any additions or
deletions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Ifnot, I need a motion to approve the
agenda as amended.
MR. L YKOS: So moved, Lykos.
MR. JERULLE: Second, Jerulle.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a section.
All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Everyone has read the minutes from last month, I assume, board
members. If we have found anything wrong or any changes we need
to make; otherwise, I need a motion to approve the minutes from the
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March 18, 2009
February 18th meeting.
MR. L YKOS: Motion to approve, Lykos.
MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Under discussion, we have an end of the month report given to
all the board members regarding contractor licensing activity and
unlicensed contracting, a lot of different things.
Mr. Ossorio, would you like to comment on this at all?
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, for the record, Mike Ossorio,
Collier County Contracting Licensing Supervisor.
Not really. It is what it is. You'll see on the date October,
November, December, January and February and the year to date is
265,980.
And you'll see on the left-hand side, starting with October, new
licenses. And November -- and this is pretty well being steady. You'll
see an increase probably in June and July and August for
reinstatements from -- and also you're going to see a spike in renewals
in August and September. So it looks like we're doing pretty good.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: By looking at this, looks like licensing's
bringing in quite a bit of revenue.
This is only for a five-month period; is that what it is? October
through February?
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March 18, 2009
MR. OSSORIO: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Pretty good.
Okay, any questions, discussion on that?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, I'm going to switch things
around just a little bit here this morning, only because we have some
people that are here that need to probably get to work. And I'm going
to go into public hearings at the moment, if we will, and I'm going to
ask that in Case No. 2009-05, Charles C. Willey, d/b/a B&W Paving
Contractors of Southwest Florida, Inc., please be represented, come to
the podium and be sworn in, please.
MR. BRYANT: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. David Bryant.
I'm Mr. Willey's attorney only for this motion that I'm going to make
to continue this matter.
I do not represent Mr. Willey in the case in chief because of the
fact that in the past, distant past, I did some legal work, just minor, for
one of the people involved in this matter. So Mr. Willey has retained
William Hazzard to represent him in this case.
Mr. Hazzard could not be here today because he's taking his
daughter to visit several schools where she's been admitted to law
school. But he has retained Mr. Hazzard. Mr. Hazzard will be
representing him.
I've discussed this matter with Mr. Zachary and also Mr. Neale,
and provided them a copy of my letter to them requesting the
continuance. And I'd like to make it a part of the record. I don't know
if I need to introduce it with the Chair or if Mr. --
MR. NEALE: Introduce it to the Chair.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. BRYANT: Thank you. I'd just like to make that part of the
record, showing the reason for the continuance and that Mr. Hazzard
will be representing Mr. Willey.
Like I said, I'm only here for the limited purpose of requesting a
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continuance in this matter.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand.
MR. NEALE: Board will need to move that into the record, so
make a motion and --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. I'll motion that we bring this letter
dated March 9th, 2009, attention Mr. Zachary, into evidence please.
MR. BOYD: Second, Boyd.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and second.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Okay, and also then you're asking -- requesting a continuance of
this until next month?
MR. BRYANT: Until Mr. Hazzard can represent Mr. Willey.
And I assume that he will be here prepared to represent him in April.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, then we'll go ahead and I'll need a
motion to make a continuance for this case of 2009-05 and postpone it
until the meeting of April 15th, is it?
MR. NEALE: Uh-hum.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So on April 15th, all people will be
ready to go and the case will be heard. We all understand that, okay?
A motion thereof?
MR. BOYD: So moved, Boyd.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion.
MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'.
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March 18, 2009
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a second.
Motion and a second on the floor to continue the Case No.
2009-05.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. LYKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
MR. BRYANT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for
taking it out of order, too.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Not a problem. You're welcome, sir.
MR. L YKOS: Michael, do you want us to hold these till next
month, or are you going to reissue this packet?
MR. OSSORIO: I believe that we're going to pick it up and we'll
distribute it back in April, so --
MR. L YKOS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One last question. This letter for
evidence, should this go with the packet or, Mr. Neale, do you need
this, or Mr. Zachary need this?
MR. NEALE: The court reporter.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Court reporter? Okay.
I'll give it to you after the meeting.
Okay, now we can go back to business. New business. Is a Mr.
Earl A. Carron, III present? One last call, Mr. Carron?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, we'll postpone that one maybe
until a few more minutes. Maybe he's running late in traffic.
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March 18, 2009
How about Noel Agosto, Jr. Are you present?
MS. AGOSTO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you please come to the podium
and be sworn in, please.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Agosto, you are coming before us
today. It appears that you have applied for a tree trimming license.
MS. AGOSTO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And that you have passed the test. But
unfortunately there are some issues on your credit report that we're
here to look at.
MS. AGOSTO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Does (sic) the board members have a
chance to look over the packet to have any questions or discussion
you'd like to ask, or would you like to open with the reasons of what's
on this credit report? Which we have all looked at it and there are
some things that are derogatory, for sure.
MS. AGOSTO: Yeah, that's for sure. I've had some rough times
in the past. I mean, personally I didn't think that would count against
me for my licensing in the future. I didn't know -- I mean, I'm working
on everything little by little as I can.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well--
MR. JERULLE: Michael, is he applying for tree trimming or
tree trimming and landscaping? Mr. Ossorio?
MR. OSSORIO: He's actually applying for two licenses: One is
landscaping, one is trees. So he's requesting two certificates.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: As I see now you're licensed in several
other counties. Or let's just say that I see business tax receipts. I'm not
sure that they're licenses or if Lee County's tax receipts allows you to
work in what you do.
It says on the Lee County business and tax, it shows a lawn
and/or landscaping service.
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March 18, 2009
Now, Mr. Ossorio, are you familiar with Lee County's licensing
as far as does this allow him to do the things we wants to do today?
MR. OSSORIO: In Lee County it's just a business tax. They
decided not to regulate tree service and landscaping.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: They did.
MR. OSSORIO: So -- and that's where he's got his experience,
over in Lee County, working and doing trees and landscaping.
We didn't take a look at the medical, just at the whole
application itself under his credit and forwarded it to the licensing
board.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Go ahead.
MR. AGOSTO: Yeah, that's -- well, every time, like we started
off in Miami, Dade County, and moved up. I got -- eventually I took
the courses for Broward County, because I had to take some exams
also for Broward County. And then eventually my father moved up
here and he wanted to move, so that's when I got the Lee County. And
then I started applying for Collier County.
But supposedly those licenses is what they've always -- like
they've always told me what I've needed in those other counties to do
what I do, which is mainly tree trimming, lawn maintenance and a
little bit of landscaping here and there. In the sense of like whenever a
tree's removed, sometimes people want a tree to be replaced or two,
depending on the situation.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: How long have you been in business in
the other counties?
MR. AGOSTO: In Miami, has been for 10 years. I started back
in 1999, September. And a few --like two or three years later, I got it
in Broward County.
And in Lee County has been I think back in '07 I got it, '08,
around there.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think you're going to have to give me a
little advice here, Mr. Neale. I'm looking at the credit report from him
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March 18, 2009
personally, and then I'm looking at a corporate report or a corporate
entity return. And I'm not seeing anything on the corporation, but I'm
seeing a lot on his personal.
MR. NEALE: Well, the way the Collier County ordinance reads
is that ifhe's applying for licensure as a partnership corporation,
business trust or other legal entity, and he is applying as Noel and Jr.
Tree Services, Inc., I believe.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
MR. NEALE: Then the requirement is that a credit report from a
nationally recognized credit agency, if the business has been in
existence for more than one year. If it's been in existence for less than
one year, a credit report on every business organization which the
applicant/qualifier/agent was required. Ifneither of the above is
applicable, a personal credit report on the applicant/qualifier is
required.
In truth, his personal credit report shouldn't even be in this
packet.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right, that's what I thought. In reality,
we're looking at his corporate return.
MR. NEALE: The business one's the only one to look at.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
Any questions from the board?
MR. JERULLE: Yeah, did you take deposits from your
customers?
MR. AGOSTO: Deposits?
MR. JERULLE: Yes.
MR. AGOSTO: In which sense, like before I start a job?
MR. JERULLE: Correct.
MR. AGOSTO: No, I prefer always to just -- once I'm done, I
get paid in full once the job is done. I don't like dealing with deposits.
Depending on certain situations where then I do a whole
contract, they've given me a certain amount in front. Because it's a
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March 18, 2009
large -- because I do a lot of work for golf courses sometimes in
Miami and also in building complexes and personal.
And the golf courses, I've done work for them so many years
where I have to trust already that I know that within the month or so I
receive a check. But like when it's small houses or person to person,
I'd prefer to -- if it's a large amount, I take a certain amount up-front,
everything's signed and whatnot, approved by the owner of the house
and whatnot and everything. Nothing just under the table, none of that.
I don't like to work like that. I prefer to have all my papers for future
references, so --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Does staff have any recommendations?
MR. OSSORIO: I recommend we approve his license.
MR. JERULLE: Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I just -- ifhe's
in a position where he has -- now we're not supposed to talk about the
debt that he has because it's not on the business, but ifhe's not taking
deposits and he's in a business where he's performing a service and
then he's getting paid for it, I don't have a problem with it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right.
Any conversation with probation as far as for a period of time
just to monitor, or no? Hold on.
MR. L YKOS: If you look at his business report, it's pretty clean.
There's a couple of minor, very minor problems on his business
report. But looks like he keeps his business and his personal separate
and he looks like he takes care of his business.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Then ifthere's any (sic) other
discussion, I'll entertain a motion.
MR. GUITE': I'll make a motion that we approve.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have a motion on the floor to
approve.
MR. JERULLE: Second, Jerulle.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Second, Jerulle.
All those in favor of approval of this gentleman's license to be
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granted, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. LYKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
Good luck.
MR. AGOSTO: What process do I go--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, you'll have to go down to Collier
County, but you can't do it today, okay, because all your records will
still be here. So probably first thing tomorrow morning you go down
there and see either Maggie or if you don't, you can find Michael in
there somewhere and he'll direct you on the procedures you need to go
through to continue it out and validate your license, okay?
MR. AGOSTO: Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good day.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You, too.
Okay, next, I have a Dennis Gibbs is on the agenda, contesting a
citation. I'm showing a contest of a citation.
MR. GIBBS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you come up and be sworn in,
please.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: From what I can gather from this -- Mr.
Jackson, would you like to be sworn in also, if you haven't been yet?
MR. JACKSON : Yes, please.
(Ian Jackson was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm gathering this was a citation that had
been issued by yourself --
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March 18, 2009
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- in an investigation you did?
MR. JACKSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And found that this gentleman was in n
was not in compliance when you issued a citation?
MR. JACKSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And this gentleman decided to appeal
this and wrote a letter to James Mudd through Collier County
management, and he's here today to contest that.
Would you like to explain, first of all, what happened in the case
or what happened in the citation, why it was issued?
MR. JACKSON: Certainly. I've got a little summary that I've
drafted.
On February 9th, I observed signs of flooring installation at 166
Palmetto Dune Circle.
I approached the front door and spoke with the homeowner, Mr.
Roth, explained who I was and what we do, regulate the licensing of
contractors.
I then asked Mr. Roth if I could come in and talk with the
contractor installing the flooring.
Mr. Roth led me to the rear room where I met with Mr. Gibbs.
While speaking with Mr. Gibbs, it was discovered that Mr. Roth
was in contract with Home Depot for the flooring. Home Depot then
hired a company by the name of U.S. Installation Group, Certified
General Contractor. u.s. Installation Group then hires independent
installers with their own licenses and their own workers' compo
exemptions.
While speaking with Mr. Gibbs, it was established that Mr.
Gibbs had his own company, Dennis M. Gibbs, LLC, a business tax
receipt from Lee County for installation of carpet and vinyl or wood
flooring, which in Lee County is the requirement. The business tax
receipt, that is.
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March 18, 2009
Mr. Gibbs also has an active workers' compo exemption, valid
through December of this year.
I then explained the license requirement in Collier County for
the installation of floor coverings, according to Ordinance 2006-46,
Section 1.6.3.20.
At this time, per the ordinance, a citation in the amount of $300
was issued to Mr. Gibbs, and a general stop work order was verbally
issued, explaining that Mr. Gibbs is not permitted to contract for
flooring in Collier County until he obtains the required license.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Were there any other people on the job
at the time?
MR. JACKSON: No.
Given the fact that the installation of the flooring for Mr. Roth,
the homeowner, was substantially complete and the possession of a
current workers' compo exemption held by Mr. Gibbs, and most
importantly to not adversely affect the homeowner, I did allow this
particular job to be completed.
And that was a case closed at that point.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: When you gave the citation, or when you
saw this information happening, what percentage of the job completed
would you say was in your opinion? 80 percent, 90 percent?
MR. JACKSON: Going by a visual recollection, at least 60
percent. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say at least 60 percent.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Any questions from the members
of the board?
MR. GUITE': What type of flooring was it?
MR. JACKSON: Carpet.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Gibbs?
MR. GIBBS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you like to give us a little
scenario on the letter that was written by you and why you're here.
MR. GIBBS: Yeah, I was hired by Home Depot or US. I&G. I
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March 18, 2009
work about 20 hours a week and I'm supposed to do the minor repairs.
If guys forget or are short on closets, I do little closets, little bedrooms
and things like that. And I usually work about 20 hours, because I'm
trying to slow down. I get Social Security this month for the first time.
And they're supposed to keep me supposedly in Lee County. But
when they give me the work orders, I never really look. I just go out to
the job. If! had known I was in Collier County, I wouldn't certainly --
because I'm making $400 a week, I'm not going to go for a $300 fine.
But when he told me about that, I said fine. I took the fine and
I'm okay with it. I shouldn't have been out there.
But what confused me was when the homeowner came out and
yelled at Mr. Jackson that you can't do this to me, you're upsetting my
home, he said to me, all right, now go back in there and finish the job.
I said, you're kidding me. You just gave me a $300 fine, and you
want me to go back in there and finish it? How do I know you're not
going to give me another one? He said, I won't.
I said, so you're telling me to do it now? And he said, yes.
I said so, then I don't get the fine?
Yes, you still get the fine, but you can do it.
That confused me. So then I went back in and the homeowner
says, well, I'm glad to see you here. And I said, I don't know if I
should do this because he's still sitting outside.
He said no, he came knocked on the door and said he gave you
permission to do it.
And the homeowner felt the same way I did, how could you
have permission to do it and get a $300 fine?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, I believe, Mr. Gibbs, that you're--
in some sense of the word you're correct, but in other senses, maybe
Mr. Jackson was I guess doing a favor to the homeowner.
MR. GIBBS: Only when they yelled at him. He didn't care.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't really think I can believe all of
that. I mean, I can understand him being upset or the homeowner
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March 18, 2009
being upset, because now they have someone that technically is
unlicensed --
MR. GIBBS: I'm saying he wouldn't --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- doing the job.
MR. GIBBS: -- have changed his mind. He wouldn't let me go
back in. He said, well, you get -- I called up US. I&G, and I said, you
have to get a licensed Collier licensed guy out here to finish the job,
he won't let me back in.
He called me back and he said, we can't find anybody.
That's when the homeowner asked me, what's going on here? I
said, I can't go back and finish the job, I'm getting a $300 fine.
And that's when they read him the riot act. After they read him
the riot act he came back to me and said, hey, could you do me a
favor?
Now, he wants me to do him a favor, and I'm asking him to do
me a favor. I only work 20 hours a week. You know, I'm just doing
this -- no big deal. I don't have any employees, nothing.
I said, do me a favor, I won't come back to Collier County, I'm
not even supposed to be here. But $300 is going to kill me. He said,
I'm doing my job.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, that's the terminology--
MR. GIBBS: And then changed it to say okay, now you can do
it.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That is the terminology --
MR. GIBBS: And if I can do it--
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Excuse me, Mr. Gibbs.
MR. GIBBS: -- why?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, I understand what you're driving
at and I can understand the fact that yes, Mr. Jackson was doing his
job and you were unlicensed at the time. He could have very well
closed the door and told you to get off the property, put a stop work
order on there and made you leave.
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March 18, 2009
MR. GIBBS: That would be fine and that's what I was going to
do.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But again, you have to understand, the
meeting of this board is to protect the interest of people in Collier
County .
MR. GIBBS: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. And this is what probably he was
trying to do. He was trying not to damage these people because they
had half their carpet down and half their carpet not down. In his
opinion he had more than 50 percent of the carpet finished, so he was
kind enough to allow you to go ahead and do it this time.
MR. GIBBS: No, that's --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: However, in the future, ifhe was to get
caught here in Collier County again doing it, yes, he would get the
$300 fine.
MR. GIBBS: Home Depot said we shouldn't have sent you out
to Collier County, we'll keep you in Lee County.
But what I'm saying here is what is it? Either I can't work or I
can work. Only according to Mr. Jackson says I can work? Then why
give me the $300 fine?
He said you can do it. You have my permission to do it. And I
did it. And now you're giving me a fine. It's just not right.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, you paid the fine, correct?
MR. GIBBS: Yeah, and I accepted it. Until he said, well, now
it's okay to do it. Well, if it's okay to do it, why am I getting fined?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's kind of like let's say a sheriff goes
out and gives a driver a ticket for a seat belt, right? Don't have a seat
belt on, so he gives you a citation. Go down the street two miles and
another sheriff gives you another citation. He's not telling you, you
can't do it, but he's telling you if you do it, you're going to get a
citation.
MR. GIBBS: Well, if! got stopped for a DUI and the police
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March 18, 2009
officer said to me, I'm going to give you permission to drive home,
you go wait a minute, what did you stop me for if it's okay to drive?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, we're going--
MR. JERULLE: Excuse me, may I ask a question?
Why are -- are you contesting the fine, is that why you're here?
MR. GIBBS: I'm contesting the fact that he said that I couldn't
do it and I agreed with it and I said fine, and I paid the fine. But then
he said you can do it. Well, if I can do it, I don't deserve a fine. You're
telling me to do it.
MR. JERULLE: So you're contesting the fine? I'm just confused.
MR. NEALE: The issue with the board is if you contested the
fine prior to the time you paid it, this board would have some
authority. At this point since he's already paid it, this board has no
authority to say to the Clerk of Courts, to tell Dwight Brock that he
has to issue a check back to this gentleman.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Correct.
MR. NEALE: So while, you know, the board I think is good in
hearing what he has to say and everything, as far as the board having
any power to effect him having pay that fine, it's a moot point, frankly.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Exactly.
We've heard your comments and we've discussed the letter that
you wrote, giving you the courtesy to do that. But again, like Mr.
Neale said, it is out of our hands. If you'd have contested the fine -- or
the citation before you paid it --
MR. GIBBS: You mean I shouldn't have paid it?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, you didn't have to. You have 30
days to do it in. You could have contested it and came in here and then
maybe we could have backed it off.
But at this point you've already paid it. Like Mr. Neale said, we
can't go back and tell the Clerk of Courts to refund your money,
because that doesn't happen.
So we appreciate your comments.
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March 18, 2009
And Mr. Jackson, I think you did a great job and we'll go to the
next case. Thank you much for coming in.
MR. GIBBS: Thank you.
MR. L YKOS: For the record, I would have upheld the citation.
If you would have not paid it and came in and contested it, I would
have upheld it. You were operating in Collier County without a
license. I would have upheld the citation.
I think maybe, Mr. Ossorio, you need to just have a meeting with
your staff to discuss when they make a subjective decision like that
what's appropriate, if you don't have a policy in place.
MR. OSSORIO: There is a policy. The building director and I,
we do talk about it on issuing the stop work orders, and we have to
apply real common sense in the field.
Ifthere's an unlicensed roofer and he's putting, you know,
sheeting on the roof, whatever it is and it's going to rain, we let them
go ahead and continue up to the point till it dries in.
In this particular case, it was a minor infraction. He had workers'
compo insurance, he had the exemption, he was 60 percent done. I
think Ian Jackson did the right thing.
Now, ifhe just started, we would have probably issued the stop
work order and we probably would have -- Home Depot would have
probably had to bring someone else out there.
So we do have a policy out there --
MR. L YKOS: Thank you.
MR. OSSORIO: -- and we try to go ahead and outweigh the
means and the ways of the homeowner and the consumer and the
unlicensed contractor. So we try to do as best we can.
MR. L YKOS: I think you did a great job, Ian.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, thank you so much for coming in,
though. You're free to go.
All right, we'll go to the next one, which is another item under
new business. A Mr. Alberto Trevino?
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March 18, 2009
MR. L YKOS: That's moved to April.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Oh, I'm sorry, it is moved to April,
you're right.
Okay. Well, let's go back up then. Is there an Earl A. Carron, III?
Have you come in?
Please come to the podium and be sworn in, please.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Carron, you are contesting a citation
that was issued to you?
MR. CARRON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The citation was issued on February 3rd
for carpentry, engaging in business or acting in the capacity of a
contractor, right?
MR. CARRON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Kennette, please, would you come
to the podium, be sworn in.
(Mr. Kennette was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Kennette, apparently you issued a
citation to Mr. Earl A. Carron, III on February 3rd for engaging in
business in carpentry.
Would you like to explain the reasons and what happened that
day that you gave him the citation, please.
MR. KENNETTE: For the record, Allen Kennette, Contractor
Licensing.
On February 3rd I received a call from the code enforcement in
the City of Naples that on Kingfish Lane that he had observed a
handyman putting in an exterior door on a garage for a homeowner.
When I arrived there, there were two gentlemen there: The
gentleman here that's protesting the ticket, Earl Carron, III; and a
Robert Thomas.
The homeowner was also there. I asked the homeowner what
was taking place. He said, I have a handyman, Mr. Earl Thomas, that
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March 18, 2009
does a lot of my work for me around the property and is replacing an
exterior door for me.
The home is right on the bay. The exterior door would need a
permit from the City of Naples before any work would be done on it.
At that point I informed him that a permit would be required for
this door. The door was basically almost installed; all that was left was
just some molding around it.
The other gentleman was there with him, Mr. Carron, and he
informed me that he was here just to take away the old door.
Mr. Thomas said that he was here to help him install the door
and he had a van that he would remove the products. He was out of
work, he decided that he would give him a little extra money to help
him install this door on the homeowner's home.
And that's where we're at.
So both persons were issued citations: The handyman himself,
Mr. Robert Thomas, was issued a citation for working out of the scope
of his license, along with Mr. Carron for assisting in the carpentry
work of installing an exterior door in the home.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Do we know that Mr. Thomas paid his
fine already?
MR. KENNETTE: Mr. Thomas is making payments.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Making payments.
MR. KENNETTE: Right. Because he also said that he was slow
on work, that he would make payments on it. And so did Mr. Carron,
said that he was out of work, that he would also make payments on it,
but he didn't feel that he should get it because he was just here
assisting Mr. Thomas.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Mr. Carron, would you like to--
you've heard the comments. Would you like to tell us your reason for
wanting to contest the citation?
MR. CARRON: What he said is basically true. But someone just
called me up and asked me to give him a hand for a couple of hours,
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March 18, 2009
and I did. I didn't really check for a permit or I didn't know what
license who had. I was just giving someone a hand, you know,
because it was too heavy for him. You know, he asked me to give him
a hand because it was too heavy for him so I did. And next thing you
know, I was getting a ticket.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. So obviously then you do admit
that you were wrong.
MR. CARRON: If it's wrong to give someone a hand, pick up a
door for him, I guess I was wrong.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, the terminology that you've said is
not really true, because you were probably putting in the door, correct,
or helping put in the door?
MR. CARRON: I really was just there because the door was
heavy, to give him a hand. I picked up the door, I was supposed to
bring back the old door.
I didn't know there was a permit, I didn't know anything about
the job. I was -- you know.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, I think in the future it would be a
very good thing for you to do would be to check with the county or
City of Naples or county to see in certain things that you are going to
go do as a friend, or whatever you're going to do them as, to see if it
requires a license to do it and to see if it needs a permit to be issued.
MR. CARRON: I figured that had all been done, you know. I
really just didn't know.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, no problem.
Any other questions from the board discussion-wise?
MR. BOYD: I don't have any questions, but I have a comment.
I have a problem with this one in the fact that we fine the person
that has a license. This gentleman was just along helping out, making
a few dollars. He didn't solicit the job, he wasn't acting as the
supervisor. You know, he was trying to make a few bucks. And I don't
think he had any ulterior motives in helping this guy out, so I don't
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March 18,2009
think this one's right.
MR. QUITE': I feel the same.
MR. KENNETTE: He does not have Workmen's Compo either.
Ifhe got hurt on the job, who was at fault would be the owner.
MR. BOYD: Well, that would be Mr. Thomas that contracted for
the job.
MR. KENNETTE: Mr. Thomas does not have workers' compo
MR. BOYD: Well, then he's the one that should be getting the
fine.
MR. KENNETTE: He was. He did.
MR. BOYD: Did you fine him for no workers' comp.?
MR. KENNETTE: Not for that type of job, no.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But the fact is that ifhe was on that job
and if Mr. Thomas did get hurt, then there's no way that the other
gentleman could pay a workman's compo payment for him, and it
would go right to the homeowner, which again would be damaging
someone in Collier County.
So I think it is a serious offense, and I think the ticket, you
know, is something that was issued correctly.
MR. GUITE': Did the homeowner hire Mr. Carron, or did the
homeowner hire Mr. Thomas?
MR. KENNETTE: The homeowner is a -- hired Mr. Thomas.
Mr. Thomas is his caretaker. He does the maintaining of his property.
At that time he decided to have the door changed, asked Mr.
Thomas if he could change the door out for him. Which he said yes, I
could, but I'll need to get somebody with me. And that's when Mr.
Carron came into the picture, he got him to help him do the door.
MR. GUITE': If I was doing ceramic tile on a condo and
somehow my license lapsed and I didn't renew my license and you
stopped me, would you give my helpers a ticket too?
MR. KENNETTE: No. Because you're licensed. He wasn't
licensed to do that job. He needs to have a permit. He can't get a
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March 18, 2009
permit. That's a permitted job. It's an exterior door on the Gulf. You
need to have wind loads and engineering.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Guite', it depends. If you were in a
high-rise and you didn't have a license and you had your workers out
there and we established that you got some monetary money with
those workers who got a 1099, they were independent, we would give
you -- not your workers a ticket, but your subcontractor a ticket.
MR. GUITE': Exactly.
MR. OSSORIO: And that gentleman is a subcontractor to Mr.
Thomas.
MR. GUITE': Just because he asked him for some help he's a
subcontractor?
MR. OSSORIO: He got paid.
MR. GUITE': I mean, I think we're walking a real fine line here
where -- especially in today's economy. I just don't think we can do
this.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, but we also--
MR. GUITE': I will not go for this in any way. I mean, just to
hire somebody to help you, you've got to get a $300 fine?
If I hire somebody to help me move some stuff around my
house, you guys are going to come and give him a fine?
I mean, this isn't right. I mean, it's not like he has -- he wasn't
even contracted with the homeowner, Mr. Thomas was. Mr. Thomas
should be in front of us right now. Mr. Thomas and the homeowner.
The homeowner is the one that hired the people.
As far as I'm concerned, if the homeowner hires an unlicensed
contractor, the homeowner's at fault, just as much as the unlicensed
contractor.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other comments, questions,
thoughts?
MR. L YKOS: I agree with Eric. I think the problem here is Mr.
Thomas was acting as the contractor. I think what happened was Mr.
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March 18,2009
Carron was acting as an employee of Mr. Thomas and Mr. Thomas
should be the one held liable for this. He had an employee working for
him without workers' compo And I think this is a situation where an
employee was given a citation and not the contractor.
And I agree with Eric, Mr. Thomas should be up here, because
he had employees without workers' compo
I'll make a motion that the citation be rescinded.
MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have a motion on the floor and a
second that the citation number 4307 be rescinded.
All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
MR. L YKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries. You're free to go.
Motion was 5-1.
All right, what else do we have? That takes care I believe of all
the new business. We haven't missed anyone?
We'll go into old business. Old business.
I'll call up to the podium Calvin Courtney, II, please.
Be sworn in, Mr. Courtney.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Courtney, how are you today?
MR. COURTNEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You were to, I guess come before us
again today and bring a third-party balance sheet and profit-and-loss
statement.
MR. COURTNEY: And I made a commitment that I could not
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March 18, 2009
honor. I didn't realize the financial ramifications of that document.
I've contacted three vendors, three accounting firms, and the fees
are beyond my ability to pay. I didn't realize what was going to be
involved in that.
When I explained the nature of what I needed, they were
wanting to do 12 months worth of review and review the schedule of
assets, and it got into thousands and thousands of dollars. And I
frankly don't have that to pay.
So I didn't realize that or I would not have made that
commitment. My intent is to comply with the board. I simply don't
have the ability.
We were going great guns for 10 months. I was absent for 60
days from Naples due to a change in responsibilities and a death in the
family, and the business just came to a stop.
There is currently no activity on any of the licenses. I don't have
any pending contracts on the segmental paving nor on the landscaping.
I am under a business tax receipt doing grounds maintenance. So I
really don't have the ability to create the document by a formally
educated accountant.
My hope is that that changes very quickly. I'm in my tenth
month on a 12-month probation. And I'm willing to do whatever you
ask, if I'm capable. If we could extend it until I can accrue these funds.
They're looking just under $5,000 to do what I'm asking them to
do for a CPA or an accountant to sign this, for it to have any validity.
And I can't just do that.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think I'm going to have to go and have
Mr. Neale, if you would bring up the charges or the license that we put
on probation and the reasons for all this, just so I understand it again.
This is going on for now what, three different times, three
months?
MR. NEALE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So see if we can't get to the bottom of it.
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March 18, 2009
MR. COURTNEY: Actually, four, I think. Two of them you
give me a buy because I was out of town from the death.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I know this is something that Mr. Lykos
had asked for, and I think his asking was quite correct.
MR. COURTNEY: He's trying to make sure there's not debt
being accrued, what he's looking for. I understand. I understand the
request. It's a fair request, I just don't have the money.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Courtney, how is that complainant? Are
you paying the individuals off?
MR. COURTNEY: Yes. Everything is current, or you would
know. I think they're set up to contact you if that is not happening.
MR. NEALE: The latest order issued by the board was in May
21st of'08. At that point in time the board reinstated his license. He
was on probation for a period of one year.
He was to report to the board in October of last year on his
activities during the intervening time. Then he was to present to the
contractor licensing supervisor a balance sheet and profit and loss.
And then at the last meeting the board requested that he come
forward with a -- he had come forward with that. And then in October
he came with more information, I believe.
And then at the last meeting, the board asked him to come up
with a third-party compiled statement. The original request was for an
audited statement, which I think everyone realized was pretty much
out of line.
And, you know, at this point he had presented information. The
board had asked for it in a different format. The original order did not
require audited reviewed compiled statements of any sort.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: From the original order that we gave
when the penalty was issued?
MR. NEALE: Well, this is the order that was issued after --
when he came back for review, after his first year's probation.
Then he came back and this was the order issued last May, to put
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March 18, 2009
him on a year's probation after he was reinstated. So his license was
revoked, it was suspended, then he was reinstated in May, he's been
on probation ever since May. And subject to the board's review of his
financials.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So he's on probation until May of this
year.
MR. NEALE: Right.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And this is now April-- March, sorry.
MR. L YKOS: The problem I have is the financial statement that
was presented to us initially, the profit-and-loss statement, there was
no balance sheet presented. The profit and loss had incorrect
allocations. Customer deposits were counted as an asset and his
income, and they should have been a liability, which was what
prompted my request for a balance sheet.
My concern is that if you don't understand your financials, then
you don't know if you're making money or not and you could be
creating the same problem that led you to the reason that you got your
license suspended.
So I understand it may be expensive to get a balance sheet and a
profit-and-loss statement that is -- approximates generally accepted
accounting principles, but I won't be comfortable allowing you to
continue to do business in Collier County until I know that you have a
basic understanding of financials and that you can prove to us that
you're operating profitably. So that we don't put the community at risk
for you to create debt with customers or with vendors again.
So maybe you need to take a class on accounting and learn how
to do it yourself. But I am very uncomfortable with the fact that you
don't understand the financials and that you come here empty handed.
MR. COURTNEY: Mr. Lykos, I understand your concern.
The last document that I brought, my father and I who is an
81-year-old retired accountant, we did. And the primary problem with
that was we cut one customer deposit in cash on hand. And we did a
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March 18, 2009
very short form, not understanding quite what you were looking for.
I believe that I could get -- and you mentioned the company, and
that was one of the three that I contacted -- for them to take a look at
the QuickBooks. And I don't pretend to be educated in accountancy.
And they're wanting to prepare a tax return. Obviously we now
have an extension. But they encompassed a lot of services, and I don't
know if that was marketing effort on their part or if they just didn't
want to sign it without the comfort.
I didn't realize they were going to out and value the trucks before
they put their name on it to find a fair market value for dump trucks
and trailers.
I don't know what document that I'm going to be able to produce
for you by a CP A -- I am not one -- that will come any time soon.
So I was thinking when I agreed to do this before that there was
some intermediate level of bookkeeper that could look at my
QuickBooks and say here's what they need. But because it's going
before you the board, they're wanting to be very detailed and to get a
CP A signature on it.
MR. NEALE: I think that's the hang-up, if! may, is that I think
the board is requesting that it's a statement that is actually signed by
an accountant. I think we all know that if somebody's going to put
their professional license on something, they're going to charge a lot
more. Whereas if he just has a bookkeeper, just reorganize the books
so that they're in proper order, that they don't have to put their
signature on, it may be something that Mr. Courtney could afford to
have done.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that would still fall into the same
play, though, as far as being something that we could look at that
would show Mr. Lykos and the rest of the board members that have
concerns over it, that he is legitimate trying to work this out.
I know he's been here four times. And I understand Mr. Lykos'
concerns, for sure, I have concerns also.
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March 18, 2009
Has -- staff, have you heard anything negative or positive about
his business or how he's been running it or any other negative
comments come in?
MR. OSSORIO: None.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: None.
The motion that we put him on, the order that was given, is he to
report jobs to staff?
No.
And right now you have no jobs ongoing; is that correct?
MR. COURTNEY: No, there -- when I was here before, there
was one that I had a deposit on that has been permitted. The permit is
closed. It was with the right-of-way department, a homeowner in
King's Lake. And that was the only pending thing or any trail of
evidence that I have.
I have nothing now active on either one, no permits pending on
either one of those licenses.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is it because of the economy that's being
bad or because of the fact that you're not looking for work?
MR. COURTNEY: Two things. Gone for 60 days. I had a great
stream, you know, a pipeline moving. And I had to unannounced, go
for 60 days from Collier County because of the death. And that,
combined with the slow economy, has not been conducive to picking
up new work.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So as it stands right now, though, you
still have an active reinstated license that is --
MR. COURTNEY: Segmental paving and landscape, restricted
landscape.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And restricted to a degree or not
restricted at all?
MR. COURTNEY: It's restricted.
MR. OSSORIO: When you get a restricted landscaping license,
you can't do irrigation. Versus if you're unrestricted, unlimited
Page 30
March 18, 2009
landscaping, you can do irrigation.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, I'm not real fond of the idea of it,
but I would entertain someone's ideas other than myself, to -- he
finishes his probation in May. At that time I would like to see, yes,
him come back before this board to see exactly how he is doing. And
that will give you a couple more months to try to put something, as
Mr. Neale might have suggested, something from not necessarily a
signed, sealed CPA document, but something that's a little bit more
user friendly as far as this board is concerned, as far as reading into
what you are actually doing.
MR. COURTNEY: May I propose something?
I've got to file -- to pay and file an '08 tax return, and I've gotten
an extension. And it's not my intention to go to the full length of the
allowable extension.
If I pay the accounting firm to do the '08 tax return and bring
that in here by the end of my probation, will that suffice, Mr. Lykos?
MR. L YKOS: You said that you use QuickBooks software?
MR. COURTNEY: I do. But let me be forthright.
It is not -- I haven't had clerical help, other than my wife
occasionally, in a long time. And there is a lot of posting that needs to
be done. And I haven't reconciled it to the statement in a while. And
that's one of the reasons at 65 to 75 an hour for an accounting firm that
the fee is so high.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: They're taking all your information from
the past year and trying to enter it into QuickBooks so it comes up
with a real readout of what you're doing.
MR. COURTNEY: And it be accurate.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It makes sense. I mean, I can understand
that for sure.
MR. L YKOS: How are you running a business if you're not
entering your accounting information on a regular basis?
MR. COURTNEY: It is so simple and slow right now, Mr.
Page 3 1
March 18, 2009
Lykos. It's not as complicated as the general contractor. Right now it's
in grounds maintenance. I do the work, my son and I, and we send the
bills out on a regular basis. It's very simple.
MR. L YKOS: If you call Intuit, who's the proprietary company
for QuickBooks, there are local accountants that do technical support.
And you can call QuickBooks, call Intuit, find out who the local
accountants are to do technical support.
You may be able to make arrangements with one of the local
accountants to not do the data entry, which is menial work, but get the
data entry done, have them come in, look at your books and produce a
profit and loss and a balance sheet.
And if you can provide for us a report off of QuickBooks -- now,
it can still be manipulated, but if you can't figure out how to do your
books, I don't know that you could figure out how to manipulate it.
But if you could bring in --
MR. COURTNEY: It's not my intent to ma--
MR. L YKOS: If you can bring in a QuickBooks generated,
profit and loss and balance sheet, then I know I would consider using
those forms and those reports to check up on your business. Okay?
So that won't require somebody to audit the value of your
vehicles or verify the value of your assets, but it will require you to get
the data entered and then bring in one of those technical support
accountants to produce those reports and verify they're correct, and
that shouldn't cost you $5,000.
MR. COURTNEY: And that's through Intuit?
MR. L YKOS: That's through Intuit, that's correct.
MR. COURTNEY: I'll seek that avenue. That's the best option
I've heard yet.
MR. L YKOS: And to be very frank, I'm not comfortable with
the fact that you can't get your paperwork done and manage your
finances. That's the whole reason you got here to begin with.
And to use the excuse that you can't afford or have the time or
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March 18, 2009
understanding to manage your finances doesn't make me comfortable
in allowing you to have your license at all, let alone with the
restrictions that we've placed on it.
So don't come here anymore and tell me that you don't
understand or don't have the time or have the wherewithal to manage
your finances. Okay? Don't use that excuse anymore.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: As you can well see, the board's not
going to let you off very easy. I mean, only because of the past.
Now, you've been on probation since May. Actually, there's no
activity been going on, so there's nothing really I guess to worry about
the public being damaged. But it's just the fact of you knowing how to
run your business. And it sounds to me like you're kind of flying by
the seat of your pants. And this is something that I think Mr. Lykos
has a concern over.
I'm not sure if any of the board members got any comments or
suggestions or thoughts? Are they all in agreement?
(Nods of heads affirmatively.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So you can see it's not just him. I just
want you to know that, it's not just one man here. We're all on the
same plain.
So I think it would be good for you to go and do exactly what his
thoughts (sic). I mean, try and get someone that can help you do the
QuickBooks, try to get some of these entries made, and then bring
something back that is viable that we can really look at and we can
really see who Mr. Courtney is and how he runs his business the
correct way.
And I'm sure that this board will go along with something that's
maybe not a signed and sealed document by a CPA, but at least
something that we can really look at. And again, you're still on
probation until May.
Now one last comment I'll make and see if this goes. After May,
what happens, Mr. Neale? Is he off probation now and then this is a
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March 18, 2009
done tabled item?
MR. NEALE: Well, at that point the board reviews that -- the
probation and determines whether either A, to continue the probation,
B, to revoke his license or suspend it, or C, let him go.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. So we have an opportunity in
May to make another decision, ifneed be. Okay.
MR. COURTNEY: So I'm unclear. On what date am I to bring
that document back? Is it Mayor is it April?
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I would say as soon as you can get it to
us. It's going to more or less prompt this board to be able to allow you
to work much quicker without this being hanging over your head. I
mean --
MR. JERULLE: If you're not --
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- we're not going to give you a time and
date.
MR. JERULLE: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Go ahead.
MR. JERULLE: If you're not busy, Mr. Courtney, you have
plenty of time to make your journal entries.
And Mr. Lykos is right. I mean, you have a responsibility as a
contractor not only to your clients but also to yourself and your
employees by keeping your books. That's part of being in business.
MR. COURTNEY: I'm not new to the business world, fellows.
I'm a little angry at the wrist slap. And frankly, I've had some very
large organizations. I have a Master's Degree in horticulture. I've
never made it a focus of mine to be in accounting. I understand the
responsibility, and I've always had somebody to do that.
And frankly, a lot of the problems I'm experiencing are a result
of a son of mine who's had some problems and it all trickled down.
So I am not a babe in the woods in this and have had as many as
300 employees and 200 acres of greenhouses. So I understand what
you're asking for, and I will diligently seek it. I thought it had a
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March 18, 2009
signature. I didn't know that my entering the data on the QuickBooks,
the receipts and the fuel charges and all that was pertinent.
Today my life is simple. I mow about 30 yards and I send out
the bills, and it's really very easy. It's not a lot to manage.
So I understand what you're asking. I'm not an irresponsible
fellow, and I will do it, I'll be glad to comply.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Like I said, the sooner the better. And
when you have something that you can bring before us, all you have to
do is give Mike Ossorio a call and he'll put you on the agenda for the
following month and we'll get a chance to look at it again.
Otherwise, yes, you will definitely be back here in May. Ifwe
don't do it between now and then, May you will have something. I
would suggest you have something by then.
MR. COURTNEY: Thank you all.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're welcome.
Okay, so much for old business.
The public hearings, both of these hearings, 2009-05 and
2009-06, have been tabled, one continued. So those are gone.
Any other reports anyone needs to make or wants to make?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No.
The cones were still in the way when I parked this morning, but
I moved them, so I hope I don't get a ticket.
Anybody else parked in the same place I did? Okay, good.
MR. GUITE': Well, A couple of spaces down. Not in the same
space.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, the next meeting is on April 15th,
right here in the same building, same seats.
Anybody else have anything else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No. Okay, appreciate it, good meeting.
And I need to entertain a motion.
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March 18, 2009
MR. L YKOS: Motion to adjourn, Lykos.
MR. JERULLE: Second, Jerulle.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second.
All in favor?
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR. JERULLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. LYKOS: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Let's go to lunch.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:58 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR
LICENSING BOARD
Richard Joslin, Chairman
These minutes approved by the board on
presented or as corrected
as
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Reporting Service, Inc., by
Cherie' R. Nottingham.
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