BCC Minutes 12/08/2008 W (Fire & EMS)
December 8, 2008
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THE
ALS-ENGINE, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES AND
FIRE DISTRICTS WORKSHOP
Naples, Florida, December 8, 2008
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of Collier County Commissioners
and the ALS-ENGINE, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, and FIRE
DISTRICTS having conducted business herein, met in a WORKSHOP SESSION on
this date at 9:00 AM in the Administration Building "F," 3rd Floor, Collier County
Government Complex, Naples, Florida with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Tom Henning
Commissioner Jim Coletta
Commissioner Fred Coyle
Commissioner Donna Fiala
Commissioner Frank Halas
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, County Manager
Jeff Klatzkow, County Attorney
Sue Filson, Executive Manager, BCC Office
Dan Summers, Director, Bureau of Emergency Services
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AGENDA
December 8, 2008
9:00 a.m.
BCC ALS Engine Workshop
3'. Floor Boardroom
W. Harmon Turner Building
Tom Henning, Chairman, District 3
Donna Fiala, Vice-Chairman, District 1
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Fred W. Coyle, Commissioner, District 4
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO
SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE
PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS
WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2004-05, AS AMENDED, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL,
BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO
PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION
OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT
DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 252-8380;
ASSISTED LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN THE COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
1. Call to order - Chairman Henning
2. Pledge of Allegiance
3. Welcome, Self Introductions and Opening Remarks
4. Overview of ALS Engine Agreements and Medical Director's Responsibilities - Jeff Klatzkow,
County Attorney
5. ALS Engine Discussion with Participating Partners
6. Brief Power Point Presentation Entitled "Med Com" - Dr. Robert Tober
7. Public Comments
8. Summation and Final Comments
9. Adjourn
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S
OFFICE AT 252-8383.
December 8, 2008
1. Call to Order -Chairman Tom Henning
The Workshop was called to order at 9:00 AM.
2. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
Chairman Henning stated it was his understanding the reason for the Workshop was due
to the Inter-Local Agreements but he noticed the topic was not included on the Agenda.
He mentioned the Workshop was scheduled in response to a letter from Fire Commissioner
Lombardo, North Naples Fire District, to the Board of County Commissioners.
3. Welcome, Self Introductions and Opening Remarks
Chairman Henning welcomed the participants.
Thefollowing Introductions were made:
Dr. Robert Tober, Collier County Medical Director; Dr. Douglas Lee, Collier County
Assistant Medical Director; Jeff Page, Chief-EMS; Mike Brown, Fire Chief-North Naples
Fire District; Chris Lombardo, Commissioner-North Naples Fire District; Doug Dyer, Chief,
East Naples Fire District; Tom Cannon, Chairman-East Naples Fire District, Jim McEvoy,
Chief-City of Naples Fire Department; Rod Rodriguez, Fire Chief-Isle of Capri; Joseph
Langkawel, Isle of Capri Advisory Board; Mike Murphy, Chief-Marco Island Fire District;
and Frank Recker, Vice Chair-Marco Island City Council
Chairman Henning stated he received a copy of the Board's Minutes confirming the subject
matter for the Workshop was the Inter-Local Agreements as well as the Advanced Life
Support ("ALS") service provided by the Fire Departments.
4. Overview of ALS Engine Agreements and Medical Director's Responsibilities - Jeff
Klatzkow, County Attorney
. Under Florida Statutes, anyone engaged in emergency medical transport must be licensed
by the State of Florida Department of Health
. In order to obtain the license, a County must first issue a Certificate of Public
Convenience and Necessity
. Collier County issued one Certificate to itself as the sole operating entity
. Under Florida Statutes, anyone who operates a life support transportation service must
employ a Medical Director who is personally responsible for supervising and assuming
direct responsibility for the medical performance of the entire EMS system
. The County entered into Inter-Local Agreements with the Marco Island, the North Naples
Fire Control and Rescue District, the East Naples Fire Control and Rescue District, and
the City of Naples
. The purpose of the Inter-Local Agreements is:
- to provide quality and cost-effective fire rescue and emergency medical services to
residents;
- the recognition and utilization of existing and future personnel skills, qualifications,
and resources in the best interests of all agencies and the public served
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December 8, 2008
5. ALS Engine Discussion with Participating Partners
Chief Brown, North Naples Fire District, stated Fire Commissioner Lombardo sent a letter
to the Board concerning the Inter-Local Agreement between the County and North Naples.
The Agreement cited a level of training which North Naples achieved and was to maintain
throughout the contractual agreement as well as how training would be performed, and how
the Matrix (i.e., procedures and drugs used in the field) was developed.
He stated as a result ofletters from the Medical Director, North Naples' service was down-
graded which violates the Inter-Local Agreement. Due to the resources available within its
District, North Naples wants to provide a level of service that gives its residents the best
possible care.
He further stated he believed the ALS Agreement remains in place and North Naples can
operate in accordance with the Agreement.
Chief Dyer, East Naples Fire District, stated the training Matrix has not been resolved. One
issue is centralized training at the EMS Training Office on Horseshoe Drive. While East
Naples is close, most of the other Districts find it difficult to attend training sessions. He
stated he met with Dr. Tober who expressed interest in investigating distributive learning
capabilities through the use of closed-circuit television. Dr. Tober also stated there were
specific topics which he would personally teach.
(Dr. Joseph Nelson, State of Florida EMS Medical Director, arrived at 9: 15 AM and was
introduced to the Board.)
Chief Murphy, Marco Island Fire District, stated seven years ago there were 80 state-
certified Firefighter/ Paramedics working in Collier County. He stated the driving force
behind the ALS Engine Agreement is to maximize utilization ofresources existing within
the County. There are 102 Paramedics currently working for the Fire Rescue Departments.
He stated it is a disservice to the public to not utilize the Paramedics to the maximum
capacity of their abilities. Training is an important issue and should be on-going.
Commissioner Coyle stated the BCC received letters from the Fire Districts expressing
concerns regarding a directive from Dr. Tober and the possibility of violating their Inter-
Local Agreements. The Office of the Medical Director reports directly to the Board of
County Commissioners because nothing else relates more specifically to the health, safety
and welfare responsibilities of the Commissioners than Emergency Medical Services. A
procedure should be established to communicate the policies to everyone involved.
The problem revolves around policy issued without consultation and/or review by the
Stakeholders and without certification by the Board of County Commissioners.
He stated the goal of the Workshop should be the involvement of all Stakeholders in the
review and implementation of the best possible medical policy for Collier County.
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December 8, 2008
Chief Brown, North Naples Fire District, stated North Naples met with Dr. Nelson, the
State of Florida EMS Medical Director, on December 5, 2008 to discuss the Office ofthe
Medical Director and the participation of the Stakeholders in the process.
After the Office of the Medical Director was enacted, requests were made to participate in
the Office but were refused. The Stakeholders requested a "place at the table" to deal with
the day-to-day issues that arise and the responsibility Office of the Medical Director to
provide an opportunity to vet issues.
Dr. Tober stated the primary continuing issue has been the vocal dissatisfaction of the Fire
Departments over his to decision to not authorize placement of a virtual smorgasbord of
drugs on all engines carrying ALS Fire/Medics. He confirmed he would not allow specific
medications on certain units until they were "in line." He is in the process of developing new
protocols concerning body cooling of cardiac arrest patients to increase survival rates, and
work cooperatively with the two hospitals able to receive pre-cooled patients.
He stated there has not been one incident of deficit in pre-hospital care, to date, with regard
to the amount of drugs and clinical privileges given to the Fire/Medics. The deficit of care
in Collier County is that Basic Life Support cannot be provided to every individual within a
response time of five minutes. The one single action that will save the largest number of
lives is to determine how to shorten the response time from 9 minutes to 5 minutes.
He further stated he has been repeatedly questioned concerning why he has not allowed more
ALS capability. Data has shown that in 99+% of Fire Departments' runs, only Basic Life
Support was administered in emergency situations. The drugs removed from the fire engines
had not been used in the past 12 months and, when used, were specifically used by EMS
Paramedics when transporting patients. The protocols used were designed to keep patients
alive for a 60-mile trip due to the size of Collier County. The EMS Paramedics are equipped
with the drugs needed and used for emergency treatment during transportation. He suggested
the community should examine its resources to determine a way to redistribute them to
ensure Basic Life Support for each resident within a response time of 5 minutes.
Commissioner Halas stated if drugs placed on the ALS Engines are not utilized, it is a waste
of taxpayers , money.
Dr. Tober stated evidence indicated only 17 drugs were consistently utilized. He suggested
another option was to place a limited amount of drugs for use by the Sheriffs Department
officers who encounter time-dependent situations, such as bee stings.
In response to a question concerning medical responsibility and legal liability, Dr. Joseph
Nelson stated the responsibility for EMS falls directly on the shoulders of the Medical
Director. The Medical Director is required by law to write protocols, perform Qualify
Assurance, and other activities to ensure proper patient care and safety.
Chris Lombardo, Commissioner - North Naples Fire District, stated the focus should
not be on who can be sued but how to provide the best service and protection for the citizens
of Collier County. The Fire/Medics should have the maximum amount of ability (drugs)
since they are state-certified and usually arrive first at the scene.
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December 8, 2008
He confirmed North Naples' goal is to achieve a balanced and a cooperative relationship with
the Office of the Medical Director, and is committed to training and hiring the best and
brightest candidates.
Chairman Henning asked if any of the Districts have failed to adhere to the terms of the
Inter-Local Agreements.
Dr. Tober stated the degree of understanding of the Agreements varies from District to
District. The training component of the Agreements is a process that is evolving. There is a
significant difference between the services provided for Basic Life Support ("BLS") versus
Advanced Life Support ("ALS") services. The majority of procedures provided by North
Naples were BLS services.
He stated the issue was how many drugs and how much training should be given to the 105
Fire/Medics who 99% of the time did not need all of the requested drugs for clinical
procedures. The risk is in placing drugs in the hands of individuals who do not routinely use
them.
There are 120 EMS Paramedics who struggle to keep their training current. Five Paramedics
are loaned to the Fire Departments on a daily basis. If they remain on a fire engine for more
than one month, their skill levels decrease because a different segment of care is provided by
the engine companies. The Paramedics are rotated out of service to the Fire Department in
order to keep from becoming "stale."
The drug utilization records indicate that, over the course of a one-year period, four
departments administered only 15 doses of drugs by Fire/Medics while, during that same
period, EMS Paramedics administered 7,500 doses of drugs. He stated the Fire/Medics are
also firefighting/extrication experts who must spend a good deal oftime training for
those disciplines.
He stressed the focus of the Workshop should be on how to deliver BLS to a resident within
five minutes.
Chairman Henning asked if the Inter-Local Agreements should be abolished or, if there are
problems with the Agreements, can the problems be repaired.
Chief Brown stated the original issue was whether or not the County broke the Inter-Local
Agreements. He suggested that, under the new Office of the Medical Directors, all the
Stakeholders should meet on a regular basis to discuss Quality Assurance and Quality Control
issues, the protocols, and the training Matrix in order to foster dialogue and achieve resolution
of the issues.
Commissioner Fiala asked if the Fire Department and EMS should be consolidated and how
would a consolidated unit affect the concerns regarding ALS/BLS.
Dr. Tober stated consolidation would not change the structure of any of the emergency
response procedures currently in place. What would change is who would be in charge, who
would determine how many Paramedics to hire, and who would decide how to implement the
manpower.
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December 8, 2008
In response to Chairman Henning's question, he stated the continued controversy indicates
something about the Inter-Local Agreements is not working or is not clearly understood by all
parties.
Chairman Henning stated the Inter-Local Agreements should be better defined.
Frank Recker, Vice Chairman - Marco Island City Council, stated the issue should be
whether or not, on a particular date, place and time, the treatment administered conformed to
the specific standard of care. State certification indicates a certain level of mentality and
competency has been attained, whether it is used on a daily basis or not.
Commissioner Coletta asked about the differences in arrival times between the ALS engines
and the EMS. He stated the County is not served equally by either the EMS or the Fire
Departments. Consolidation would develop a network of services throughout the County that
would be all-inclusive. Millions of dollars are spent and wasted on redundant services.
Dr. Tober stated a consolidated system would minimize the duplication of equipment
responding to an emergency situation. He further stated he considered his primary
responsibility to the County is to serve as a Risk Manager Officer to provide the safest and
most expert medical care to residents. He stated each fire department has been given enough
drugs necessary to save lives.
Frank Recker stated Marco Island is participating in a pilot program in which call screening
determines the type of engine to be sent to a scene allowing evaluation and treatment of a
patient. The unit would decide whether or not the patient required transportation to a medical
facility by another unit. He stated the Levels of Service should be brought up to ensure the
best utilization of resources. He suggested a solution would be to create a committee to
review information and determine how to distribute resources in the best interest of the
public.
Dr. Nelson stated there is a difference between "certification" versus "credentialing." The
State certifies, through its testing process, that a paramedic holds a minimum base line of
knowledge. At the EMS level, the Medical Director can set a "credentialing" level to
perform additional procedures which is achieved through training and expertise.
He stated the meeting held on December sth indicated the goal of the participants was to find
common ground to improve communication and the EMS system. Florida Statutes mandates
that specific quality assurance cases are to be discussed under a separate Emergency Medical
Review Committee.
When he suggested formation of an Advisory Committee to the Office of the Medical
Director to discuss training issues, use of resources, and quality assurance in generic terms,
Dr. Tober and the Stakeholders were receptive to the suggestion.
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December 8, 2008
Chris Lombardo stated there is a concern about the same Levels of Service not being
provided throughout the County. The answer to problem solving will be achieved through
communication among the parties.
Commissioner Coyle stated the problem has been that the Board allowed policy concerning
health, safety and welfare issues to be determined at the Stafflevel rather than by the Board
itself. He further stated a comprehensive process must be developed to routinely accept the
recommendations of the Medical Director and to obtain input and discuss ramifications in
order to make whatever decisions are necessary. There will be public review of the policy
making process.
He suggested creating either a Subcommittee under EMSAC ("Emergency Medical Services
Advisory Committee") or a separate ALS/BLS Advisory Committee ifEMSAC does not
possess the skills necessary to review the issues discussed during the Workshop.
There was further discussion concerning how to achieve an impartial, balanced Committee;
whether or not one individual from each agency should sit on the committee, the size of the
Committee, and public representation.
Dr. Nelson stated creating a separate Advisory Committee to the Office of the Medical
Examiner and an EMS Advisory Committee has been done by other Counties.
Chief Page, EMS, stated EMSAC currently consists of 14 members:
. the Fire Chieffrom the City of Naples
. the Fire Chief from the City of Marco Island
. a representative from the Fire Chiefs' Association
. a representative from the Sheriffs Office
. a representative from the Health Department
. representatives from each of the two hospitals
. five members from the public representing the five Districts
. two "at large" positions
Chief Dyer pointed out an EMS System Master Plan was funded by Collier County and
contains great deal of useful information. The Plan viewed the function of Fire Districts as
an enhancement to the EMS. ALS Engines were especially helpful in the area of concurrent
calls. BLS before ALS is paramount, but it makes no sense to request EMS support if the
ALS Engine can handle the situation.
He further stated the Office of the Medical Examiner should have no allegiance to any
particular agency - only to the public and the EMS System in total. Sharing of information
between the Districts and the Office of the Medical Examiner is critical.
Dr. Tober stated his allegiance is to patient welfare. He stated his decisions, including
training decisions, were based on evidence. His training decisions have met with resistance
due to claims of expense or logistics. Decisions are based on risk management and concerns
for public welfare.
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Commissioner Coyle stated he supports Dr. Nelson's recommendation to separate medical
treatment protocol determinations from EMS policy implementation. He suggested medical
policy and training procedures should be formulated by the best medical minds available.
Failure to collect accurate data must be corrected.
Input from the Fire Districts regarding their concerns will be taken into consideration by the
Board which will also review the recommendations of the Advisory Committee regarding the
level of training, what equipment should respond, and the types of medication necessary.
The Board will make its decisions in a public forum.
BREAK: 10:26 AM
RECONVENE: 10:42 AM
6. Brief Power Point Presentation, entitled "Med Com" - Dr. Robert Tober
(Not presented)
There was discussion among the Commissioners concerning several issues:
. How to provide the best emergency service
. Cost-effective considerations concerning wasted resources, i.e., drugs that are not used
but are routinely replenished due to expiration dates
. The composition of the Committee ~ should encompass a spirit of communication and
cooperation without political allegiance or bias
. Why the EMS Master System Plan was not presented to the Board
. The conflicting facts and figures presented during the Workshop ~ all data should be
presented to the Board
. Applicants for membership on the policy advisory committee should be interviewed by
the BCC prior to appointment
. Dr. Tober should have primary responsibility for recommending members to the medical
advisory committee
. Whether or not the policy advisory committee should be subordinate to EM SAC
. The Productivity Committee that is already in place and might be an alternative to
creating another committee
Chief Brown stated there have been problems with due process. The Stakeholders have
not had access to determine whether or not a process was viable. He suggested the
involvement of the Stakeholders will give them a voice at the table. He acknowledged the
Medical Director will make the final decision concerning the provision of medical services
but with information from the Stakeholders.
Chairman Henning requested a decision from the County Attorney's Office regarding
whether or not the Florida Statutes could be pre-empted concerning protocols.
County Attorney JeffKlatzkow stated the Workshop discussion has focused on determining
what is actually necessary and such decisions will be made by Dr. Tober.
Commissioner Coyle stated lay-persons should not decide medical treatment protocols.
Medical decisions are to be determined by medical professionals. Debate and public input
are appropriate when the Board is to make a decision concerning policy. The process of
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determining what type of treatment and medication is to be provided will be decided by Dr.
Tober who will present his recommendations to the Board. At that time, the EMS and Fire
Departments will also provide their input to the Board.
If the Board decides to modify or if it fails to adopt a treatment regime recommended by the
Medical Director, the Board must be certain the decision is based on careful consideration of
all of the facts presented.
There was further discussion about the types of Committees in existence throughout the State
that could be used as models. It was suggested the individuals who deliver the services, i.e.,
Fire/Medics, Paramedics and training officers, together with the Emergency Room
physicians who receive the transported patients, should be included on the Committee to
serve as technical advisors. The goal should be to develop a premiere protocol system to
provide quality care from whatever unit is assigned to an emergency. It was acknowledged
that Dr. Tober has the authority to oversee the Committee.
Chairman Henning read a portion of Florida Statutes:
"Each Medical Director shall establish a Quality Assurance Committee to
provide a quality assurance review of all Emergency Medical Technicians
and Paramedics operating under his supervision. "
Dr. Tober stated a Committee has been established and comprised of members from the
Training Department and representatives from the various Fire Districts.
Chief Brown stated no representative from his District was included on the Committee as
was previously requested.
Dr. Nelson stated the Statutes refer to the Emergency Medical Review Committee, which
is the technical term for a Quality Assurance Committee. The EMRC deals with specific
patient care on one or more specific runs. The Committee reviews, in detail, the care
provided to the patient. Under normal circumstances, the information reviewed is protected
medical information. The confidentiality of the records must be protected.
An Advisory Committee to the Office of the Medical Director serves a separate function.
The Advisory Committee would review information provided by the Emergency Medical
Review Committee concerning disturbing trends or patient care issues. Issues regarding
protocol and/or training are topics for the Advisory Committee.
Dr. Nelson suggested the members of the Advisory Committee should be position-specific to
ensure broad spectrum representation.
Commissioner Fiala stated there has been an ongoing power struggle between ALS vs.
BLS. The composition of the Advisory Committee should not be involved in the power
struggle but concerned with health, safety and welfare of the entire community regardless of
which vehicle arrives at an emergency scene.
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December S, 200S
It was suggested to consult the Collier County Medical Society to provide access to
individuals in key positions in the hospitals, those involved in Emergency Room procedures,
and ER management. Also suggested was inclusion of a representative from the Paramedic
units as well as a representative from each of the Fire Districts.
Dr. Tober stated protocols have been revised and updated as necessary. He further stated
the conflict persists over what is permitted on individual units, i.e., who should be carrying
what and on which vehicle. He further stated he will be happy to assemble an Advisory
Committee and will call the Medical Directors from adjacent Counties to serve on the
Committee.
Chief Dyer agreed with Commissioner Coyle's comments and stated if Collier County had
adhered to the terms ofthe Inter-Local Agreements, the Workshop would not have been
necessary.
He stated East Naples has:
. Complied with the medical protocol and participated in medical training and quality
assurance programs in accordance with the County;
. Designated a representative to the County who was approved by the Medical Director as
a quality assurance member to participate on the ALS Non-Transport Quality Assurance
Committee, although the Committee has not met since November, 2007
East Naples' Fire/Medics and EMTs ("Emergency Medical Technicians") have met the same
requirements and have performed the same appropriate medical protocols as defined by the
County EMS Medical Director.
East Naples has adhered to standard operating procedures, medical quality assurance
programs, general orders, and chain of command as employees of the County's EMS
Department.
Chief McEvoy, City of Naples Fire Department, stated he has been a member of the
Emergency Medical Services Advisory Council for the past seven years. Collier County has
many highly trained emergency medical professionals who only want to do their jobs. The
issue to be settled is what should they be allowed to do - who can practice the protocols and
where. The Stakeholders are key to any Committee to be created, as well as the public.
7. Public Comments
. Juan Campos, a Fire/Medic for the past nine years and a Certified Paramedic for the
past eleven years, was one of the Paramedics who approached Dr. Tober with concerns
that their skill levels were deteriorating due to a 4-mo.extended service on the Engines
necessitated by personnel shortages. He stated his assessment and diagnostic skills
were definitely affected. Those skills are developed over time by actual experience.
Paramedics greatly respect the Fire/Medics and often utilize their assistance, but not for
diagnostic and assessment decisions.
. Dr. Fay Biles was a member and past Chair of EM SAC. She stated EMSAC did point
out existing problems. Collier County has one of the finest EMS programs in the nation
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December S, 200S
and it won the State and National awards while she was EMSAC's Chairman. But people
are sick and tired of the Fire/EMS controversy and it is time for the issue to be resolved.
While the topic of consolidation was not the issue ofthe Workshop, it should be carefully
considered.
. Earle Borman has been a Collier resident for the past 12 years. He stated he was
encouraged by the discussion. The parties involved are part of the solution. He urged
the Board to maintain the quality system already in place and to ensure its continued
improvement.
. Duane Billington has been a 33 year resident of Collier County and a congestive heart
failure/heart attack survivor. A congestive attack leaves the patient breathless and unable
to communicate. There are several drugs that can be used, but the wrong one can cause
the heart and lungs to flood with fluid drowning the patient. Collier County has a 37%
cardiac save rate which is 4 to 6 times better than the national average. Dr. Tober
developed those protocols and should be making all of the medical decisions.
. Larry Meltz has been a long-time resident. Collier County offers the most efficient and
best life saving treatment available. The objective to achieve a more cost effective
solution is admirable. He stated EMS should operate separately under the Office of the
Medical Director. He cited Marion/Osceola and Broward County where programs failed
and the EMS service is in disarray. He stated the Fire/Medics should be trained to a
higher standard.
. Bill Hagman stated if the system isn't broken, don't "fix" it. The Naples Daily News
has reported the ongoing saga. There has not been any valid criticism of Dr. Tober's
management in the past 10 years. While the Fire Departments may merge, the EMS
System should remain separate. The primary concern should be saving lives.
. Burt Boersma stated politics should not influence the operation of critical services. Even
winning awards does not mean that services are perfect. If he were in need of emergency
medical assistance, he would not choose someone who did this once in a while in place of
someone who performed this function everyday. Firefighters perform a great service by
extricating those in danger and putting out fires. They are well trained for this work. He
supports Commissioner Coyle's recommendation for a Medical Services Advisory
Committee. From his personal experience, 14 members are too many for any Committee.
Patient care and safety should be under the supervision of Dr. Tober.
. Nancy Lascheid, RN, stated the Master Plan was presented to the BCC by the EMSAC
Subcommittee. She was a member of the EMSAC Subcommittee and stated the Report
was primarily concerned with the Fire Departments. EMSAC is too big and should be
restructured. She suggested appointing only 5 members to the Medical Advisory
Committee: a physician, an ER nurse, a hospital administrator, an attorney, and a
representative from the business community. She agreed that reinforcement of skills is
paramount because drugs can just as easily kill lives, as well as save them. She agreed
with Paramedic Campos' concerns. Decision making in the field can only be done with
experience. Basic Life Support is critical to saving lives and she urged training in BLS
for the police as well as the fire departments.
. Dr. James Hampton, a former ER physician, stated he worked under the supervision of
Dr. Robert Tober. He stated Dr. Tober was the best ER physician and the most
innovative physician he has known. He asked several rhetorical questions of the BCC.
He stated Broward County's cardiac resuscitation rate is 1/8th of Collier County's rate.
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Decisions concerning the Fire Departments should not be made by a physician, and
medical decisions should only be made by the Medical Director.
. James Cunningham, a representative of the North Naples Fire Control and Rescue
District, stated Dr. Tober has referred to himself as the Medical Director of Collier
County's EMS and referred to "my EMS staff' several times during the Workshop. The
Fire Departments are requesting some ownership and some voice regarding concerns
about how they are to proceed. No one questions that the Medical Director has full
authority to develop protocols.
He also stated the Fire Departments are requesting a voice concerning Quality Assurance,
training and compliance issues. The Fire Departments request access to an unbiased
Medical Director who will listen to what the Fire Department can "bring to the table" and
who will make educated decisions after meeting with all parties. He supported the
creation of the Office of the Medical Director to report directly to the Board. He hoped
this would alleviate all previous political influence. There should be more structure for
the Office. The Medical Director has not received, nor asked for, all of the information
and documentation available from the Fire Departments. When the proper tools and
equipment is not provided, it is difficult to determine if a service is actually provided.
8. Summation and Final Comments
Chairman Henning stated Dr. Tober told the Board his field training officers and medical
staff were the core of medical competency. It was the Board's understanding that the training
required by the Inter-Local Agreements was to be provided by the medical training staff. He
stated the Agreements should be honored. The Medical Director's staff should provide BLS
and ALS training.
Chief Dyer confirmed the original Agreements stated the Medical Director's staff would
train the trainers for each Fire District. The trainers would attend Dr. Tober's in-service, as
would the other Paramedics, and they would train the East Naples Fire Department
personnel. There has been a great deal of passive resistance in obtaining approval ofrosters
and submitting training curriculum. It has been difficult to accomplish the objectives.
There was further discussion of the need for field training officers and potential expansion of
the program.
Dr. Tober stated training from an EMS standpoint involves the critical factor of ongoing
experience. Rotation of EMS Paramedics is required in order to maintain skill levels. He has
used evidence to determine what drugs should and should not be placed for use by
individuals who do not have daily experience with the medications..
He stated the suggested Subcommittee should be limited to a small group to determine what
the ALS Engines should and should not carry to support the medical protocol. He agreed an
ER nurse should be a member and proposed the appointment of a physician from Lee County
with ER experience.
Dr. Tober stated ifhe went to work in a Trauma Center tomorrow, he would need to be
supervised by Dr. Lee because he lacks recent trauma experience, even though he has three
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December S, 200S
times the medical experience of Dr. Lee. He further stated the crux of the issue is
determining what is the safest, most prudent method to distribute tools/drugs to a Fire/Medic
who infrequently handles those tools.
Chief Brown stated capable trainers are currently available. North Naples offered to finance
and provide resources to train Paramedics and will continue to offer that service to Dr. Tober.
Chief Dyer referred to the Collier County's cardiac resuscitation rate which was nationally
recognized and stated each Collier County Fire Department contributed to achieving the
distinction whether they were the "first responder," or provided Basic or Advanced Life
Support.
He stated Chief Page is not a physician but he was responsible for overseeing the EMS
system and, until several months ago, Dr. Tober worked under EMS. The position of "Fire
Chief" or "EMS Chief' is a managerial position and does not provide medical direction.
The Fire Districts have never challenged Dr. Tober's medical credibility. No one has stated
Dr. Tober is not to be respected or trusted. The Medical Director should consider all
paramedics as "his" paramedics.
Dr. Tober stated his slide presentation underscored the fact that the Fire Departments and
the police are an integral part of the EMS system and without the Fire Department and the
Police Department, Collier County would not have the same success rates.
Tom Cannon, Chairman - East Naples Fire District, stated he has the greatest respect for
Dr. Tober and the EMS system. The controversy was not created by the Fire Departments.
The Fire Districts have not instigated the stories that appeared in the newspaper. He wrote to
all five Fire Commissioners after the first story appeared. The County created the controversy.
The independent and dependent fire departments want to provide the best medical care and
safety to the community.
He asked the Board to remember the independent fire services are each governed by their
own Board of Fire Commissioners who determines policy and procedures. He hoped the
Fire Services will be included in any future discussions.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the Workshop concluded by
order of the Chair at 11 :57 A.M.
*****
13
December 8, 2008
ning, Chairman
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E.~RQCl<;, CLE\U<
.....' ,
bj'.Juul . ~(Z.PA .OC.
At(est IS to It ·
, \ QIIature 0111\
These Minutes w~re approved by the Board/Committee on --1::1 ~ ~
as presented V , or as amended __'
14