BCC Minutes 10/07/2008 S (LDC Amendments)
October 7, 2008
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, October 7, 2008
LDC AMENDMENTS
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and
also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing
board(s) of such special district as has been created according to law
and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00
a.m., in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government
Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Tom Henning
Donna Fiala
Jim Coletta
Frank Halas
Fred Coyle (Absent)
ALSO PRESENT:
Catherine Fabacher, Principal Planner
Joe Schmitt, Administrator CDES
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
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October 7,2008
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Good afternoon. Welcome to the
continuance of the Land Development Code amendments, cycle two
(sic), for 2008.
Would you all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance, please.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Mr. Schmitt, I'm assuming that
Catherine Fabacher is going to lead us in the discussion today.
MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Good morning.
MS. F ABACHER: Good morning, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What's on your mind today?
MS. FABACHER: A million things.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MS. F ABACHER: Okay. Do you want to go ahead and -- this is
the continuation of our public hearing on the LDC cycle for 2008,
cycle one.
What we have today for you is an agenda of what we plan to hear
today, and you got that in book two, which is a little yellow-bound
packet. If you don't have that, I have extras.
The other sheet that you received that looks kind of scary is, it's a
tally sheet of where we are on this cycle. The yellow highlighted
means we've finished with those. Of the ones that aren't highlighted,
the ones with the check mark in that little box in the second right-hand
column means they finished with the Planning Commission, but if the
box is not checked, as is mostly the case on the back, those have not
yet passed the Planning Commission.
So we anticipate most of the stuff that is checked will be in book
three for you for your October 30th hearing, which is an all-day
hearing, okay?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. I have a question on that, unless
it's on the back. I don't see the counting of conservation easements for
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October 7, 2008
shoreline conservation area here.
MS. FABACHER: No, sir. I didn't -- wasn't directed that it was
in this cycle. I didn't receive that information, if that's your wish.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, the board directed to take it back
through the different committees and bring it back to us for further
consideration; is that correct?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, Commissioner, if I could explain. For the
record, Joe Schmitt, your Administrator of Community Development.
This cycle had already started by the time that directive came.
Just for an update on that, we've had two meetings with the
stakeholders involving the shoreline issue. Two factions diametrically
opposed. One certainly has made recommendations to proceed with
pretty much counting all the shoreline, another faction pretty much
trying to eliminate any element of the shoreline that's in conservation
easements.
We've been back in touch with some of the members. We're
trying to form a committee again or at least a -- convene the parties
again to see if we can reach some kind of consensus to form a
proposal to bring to you for review. But this cycle had already been
started, was through several of the meetings while we were still
working that issue.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, I viewed the EAC meetings
where they discussed it and made recommendations on that issue.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir. And --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is that a correct statement? I mean, it's
not a correct statement whether I viewed it and seen it. Is that your
understanding, the EAC heard this LDC amendment?
MR. SCHMITT: Go ahead. I'm not --
MS. FABACHER: No, sir. They may have heard that
independently, but I know that I've been to all the EAC/LDC
meetings, and it has not been in our book. They may have heard it
independently.
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October 7, 2008
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. SCHMITT: They talked about it from a subject matter, but
not as part of this LDC cycle.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. All right. Good.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you for your clarification on
that.
MS. FABACHER: Okay. Commissioners, now I want to take--
bring your attention to the first two items on the list. Mr. DeRuntz
won't be here today, but Mr. Weeks will be representing these
amendments, and they are both -- we have had a first hearing of them,
and we require, as you recall, a second hearing of them because they
make changes to the land use lists, permitted, prohibited conditional or
accessory. For that reason, we're back with them today.
And Mr. Weeks can answer any questions, or would you like a
brief presentation again on what it was?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Questions by the board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All right. So we're considering LDC
amendment 2.04. -- no -- 2.03.04, industrial zoning districts. Is there--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion for approval.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coletta to
approve the amendment, second by Commissioner Fiala.
Questions on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
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October 7,2008
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries unanimously.
MS. F ABACHER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next one is LDC amendment 2 point
dot dot 40.2. And that is -- no, I'm sorry.
MS. FABACHER: I believe, Commissioner, we're on -- the
second one is 2.03.07 and 4.02.37, and it has to do with the -- the
Golden Gate downtown center commercial overlay. I believe you'll
recall we prohibited some heavy industrial uses from that small
overlay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Questions on the motion?
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I know this is something you've
been working on for a long time. Does this -- does this work toward
meeting your goal for improving that area?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It meets it. I didn't have anything to do
with it. It's just a -- an error, I understand, that's correcting the overlay.
So I don't have a problem with it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, good. That's what I wanted to
know.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any further questions?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So I make a motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Fiala to --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- to approve, second by
Commissioner Halas.
Discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
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October 7,2008
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Carries unanimously.
MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, Mr. Weeks.
MS. F ABACHER: Next we'd like to move on to one that you
have heard previously, but we did change it from the floor at our last
meeting, and unfortunately we got back and Mr. McNall, our
landscape architect, reviewed the LDC again and found that we've
written stuff now that, with what we added from the floor, is kind of in
conflict and it actually weakens what's already in the LDC, in that we
had requested, instead of just allowing 25 percent of the cypress
mulch to be used on county required landscaping, we wanted to make
it that there was no cypress mulch at all used, you know, to encourage
preservation of the cypress swamps to protect the coastland.
What happened was, is that we limited it to just for CO purposes,
and after that it seemed like anybody could do anything, and we found
another provision in the LDC that unfortunately we didn't have at our
command when we discussed it with you which says that all plantings
and all requirements shall by maintained as indicated on the site plan,
which means it's in conflict with saying, after you get your certificate
of occupancy, then you can use what you want. It's says in another
section of the code that you must maintain your landscaping, your
county required landscaping based upon what you submitted on your
plan. So that's in conflict with the new language that you gave us.
So we're here to -- Bruce is here to answer questions and see
what your pleasure it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Where is the language that states it
would be in conflict?
MS. F ABACHER: Wait a second. Do you have it on hand?
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MR. McNALL: I've got the section right here.
MR. SCHMITT: Bruce, put it on the visualizer.
MS. F ABACHER: Just read it.
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioners, what we're recommending is
that we just rescind the vote and revert back to the original language in
the LDC. Do you have it?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Maybe back off just a tiny bit.
There you go.
MR. SCHMITT: I'll basically read it. All required landscaping
shall be maintained in a healthy condition in perpetuity as per the
approved building and site plans. So basically it says what was
approved on the plans when reviewed must be maintained in
perpetuity .
We were asking that no cypress mulch be used, then it was
decided that -- on the floor that it would only be at the inspection, and
then the consumer can use anything they want, which is in conflict
with this sentence.
So it's best just to remand this vote, rescind it, and just stay with
the existing language and not even mention anything having to do
with cypress mulch, if that's what you prefer.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Well, we already voted on this,
but the language has changed, so this will be an actual new
amendment, correct?
MR. SCHMITT: You voted on it. You would have to bring it to
the floor again and vote to disapprove the recommendation. We had --
then we would just withdraw it from this cycle and we stay with the
original language.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, we'd have to rescind the old
vote.
MR. KLATZKOW: You're rescinding your prior vote, yes.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right.
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October 7,2008
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve rescinding
the prior vote.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coletta,
second by Commissioner Fiala to rescind the previous vote on LDC
amendment 4.06.05D.6.
MR. SCHMITT: And I think you want to recommend to deny the
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right. Well, let's get rid of this
motion.
Discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Seeing none, all in favor of the
motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries unanimously.
Entertain a motion to not approve 4.06.05D.6.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So moved.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coletta,
second by Commissioner Henning.
Discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saYIng aye.
Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
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October 7, 2008
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
MS.. FABACHER: So -- excuse me. .
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So if --
MS. FABACHER: For the record, I believe that we -- in our first
vote we rescinded the previous approval of this amendment and now
we've just voted again to deny the amendment, correct?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes, but there wasn't a supermajority.
MR. KLATZKOW: You need a supermajority to approve. You
don't need a supermajority to disapprove.
MR. SCHMITT: That's correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: So this has been disapproved.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. All right. Thank you.
MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners. We have now
Stephen Lenberger, and we have the two last amendments. The first
one is section 3.06.04 and section 4.02.14, and this is groundwater
protection. And it's merely a clarification.
And I believe I'm going to allow Stephen to explain what he's
doing, if you don't mind.
MR. LENBERGER: Good morning. For the record, Stephen
Lenberger, engineering and environmental services department.
This amendment here is to clarify in the LDC the process used to
regulate the groundwater protection zones and to cross-reference
requirements in the other section of the ST. When you look at special
treatment overlay zones, they're indicated with an ST symbol on the
zoning maps, and so are the other types of ST zoning, and it presented
a little confusion of how they should be regulated.
This clarification is just to say that you go to the groundwater
protection section of the code to regulate the groundwater protection
zones and to cross-reference it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
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October 7, 2008
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Fiala,
second by Commissioner -- wait a minute. This is the first hearing of
it; is that correct?
MS. F ABACHER: Yes, sir, but you don't need two on this.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So we don't need a motion. Do you
want to withdraw that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I'll withdraw it then. Thank
you.
MS. FABACHER: No, no, sir. You don't need two hearings on
this.
MR. KLATZKOW: This isn't a zoning change. It only requires
one hearing.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: This is an LDC amendment.
MR. KLATZKOW: Just an LDC amendment, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So we need two hearings on the LDC
amendment?
MR. KLATZKOW: You need two hearings if you're changing
the zoning map, in essence.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We've always had -- when we had
Land Development Code amendments, we'd have the first hearing and
then we'd have the second hearing.
MR. KLATZKOW: We've done both over the years depending
upon the board's preference. The only requirement for two meetings
is, in essence, when you're changing the zoning map; otherwise --
otherwise, if you're just making a change to the LDC, such as a
change to the sign code, it only requires one vote (sic).
MS. FABACHER: One hearing.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's odd. Well, let's continue with
this one. So does your motion still stand?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So I'll restate my motion that I
make a motion to approve this particular Land Development Code
Amendment.
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COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My second stands.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Question? You've added new
language in F. What is the regulation of groundwater protection,
special treatment overlay zoning, and then it says, if two has --
references a W-1, W-2, and W-3, so on and so forth.. What is that?
MR. LENBERGER: They're distances from the wells based on
modeling. And I'm not an expert on groundwater protection. But
they're based on modeling and how long it takes subsurface water to
reach the well. And there's different zones away from the wells, and
they're all indicated as a special treatment overlay zone, that's why it
says special treatment.
So it's just a different type of wellfield, special treatment zones.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Is that -- is that on maps?
MR. LENBERGER: Yes, sir. It's on the zoning maps.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Oh, okay. So it's on the zoning maps.
Do we have those so I understand what we're doing?
MR. LENBERGER: I don't have one with me, but we could get
you one, just an example, if you want to see one.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's not an example. It says, the
regulation of groundwater protection treatment overlay zoning
wellfield risk, and it has, I guess, these maps, and they have to -- they
have to abide by those zoning maps, correct?
MR. LENBERGER: That's correct. It's in the groundwater
section of the LDC. And we do have the LDC with that. I believe
Catherine has it. But we don't have the individual zoning maps for all
the county with us.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Which map is this?
MR. LENBERGER: This is a map from the Land Development
Code showing you different zones for that particular wellfield, yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is this wellfield W-1, W-2, W-3?
MR. LENBERGER: It's the east Golden Gate wellfield, I've been
told. The wellfield one zone would be the closest one into the center,
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October 7, 2008
and they would move out, and the fourth one being the furthest.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I have a question I'd like to ask.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Can I get my questions answered first,
or do you -- well, go ahead, and I'll wait -- I'll go after you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Does this have to do with the type
of soil in regards to where the wellfields are located as far as if it's a
loam-based soil or a sand-based soil? Does it have -- is it part of the
make-up of the overlay of the wellfield itself?
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, this has been in the LDC for
many years. It defines the wellfield impact zones. This was an LDC --
needed to clarify. It came up during a Planning Commission hearing
because it did not -- no, that's not it then?
MS. FABACHER: I'm sorry. It came up during an EAC meeting.
MR. SCHMITT: EAC meeting where we had -- did not clearly
define the ST treatment for wellsites. And I'm going to let Bill explain
that.
MR. LORENZ: Yes. For the record, Bill Lorenz, engineering
environmental services director.
In relation to Commissioner Halas' question, I believe you asked,
did it have to do with soils?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MR. LORENZ: I'm familiar with the modeling that was done
initially in the early '90s, and the modeling was done based upon the
soil-- the transmissivity of the soil and the aquifer, the surrounding
groundwater levels, and the pumpage rates.
Together with that information and other information, the
consultant identified how long it would take groundwater to travel to
the wellhead. And within those travel zones, the W-1, W-2, W-3, W-4,
the groundwater protection ordinance now in the Land Development
Code identifies restrictions on facilities as to what you can do on top
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October 7, 2008
of the land within those zones.
The intention of this amendment is simply to recognize that those
W-1, W-2 zones that were mapped out as ST W-1, W-2, is not the
same ST, special treatment, as the other ST designations in the LDC
that dealt with mostly, for the most part, wetlands protection or
wetland areas.
So because the LDC has very specific regulations for W-1, W-2,
W - 3, we wanted to make it very clear that the LDC, when it identifies
-- when it says ST for a wellfield, is governed by this particular
section of the code and not the overall ST section of the code.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. This was a result of a
conditional use in Golden Gate Estates, and their use of, I think,
gasoline --
MS. FABACHER: Probably.
MR. LORENZ: Yes, I believe so. I believe there was a
conditional use whether there was a fire station.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Correct.
MR. LORENZ: Was it a fire station -- that came in and that was
in -- was in an ST -- wellfield ST, and the'question came up was, did it
have to go to the EAC because it would have to review it under the
ST, special treatment, designation.
Staff had -- staffs position was that, applying the code and
applying how the groundwater protection ordinance was developed,
that the ST wellfield designation was governed by the code within the
groundwater protection section and not the general ST section. And
this is -- and this is to clarify that application.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Do you have any further questions?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, sir.
MR. SCHMITT: Basically staff argued it didn't have to go to the
EAC, but the language in the code indicated that it needed to, and this
is to clarify that and not -- if anything in these areas, we're saying it is
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October 7, 2008
not the same ST, as Bill just explained. And now this clarifies that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Go ahead. And then I want to go.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. Go ahead first. I'll follow
you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Can we -- on page 102, we have some
changes to 4.02.14. It's saying that it -- it has to go through the EIS
process and it has to go through the review and recommendation --
actually IF -- what are we doing here?
MR. SCHMITT: That sentence just says, ST or AS -- ACSC ST,
refer to 4.02.14. But if it's W-l through W-4, ST NAR is governed by
this section. And that last sentence just directs you to 4.02.14 if it is a
special treatment overlay or ACSC ST overlay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So we have two different ST
references, and 3.06.04, that is the T -- or the special treatment just for
wellfields? And then -- correct?
MR. LENBERGER: The wellfield and the natural aquifer
recharge, designation two.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And then what are we doing with the
F below that in 4.02.14?
MR. LENBERGER: That's the special treatment overlay dealing
primarily with wetlands. There are also overlays on coastal barrier
islands. And what it's saying there is, we added the language that -- for
the wellfield risk management zones, you have to go to the section
dealing with the groundwater protection, and that's where it's
regulated, not in this section.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: They have to go through a preapp.
conference and then reviewed recommendation by the planning
service director, Planning Commission, and Environmental Advisory
Council?
MR. LENBERGER: That's for special treatment permits which
don't meet the exceptions from the public hearing requirements. But
what we're saying for the groundwater is it wouldn't follow this
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October 7, 2008
process.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It would not, okay. All right.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Just a simple question.
From where our rules are now at this point in time, changing this,
what impact will it have on property owners that have already built
structures or have operations in place or future ones that are coming
along?
MR. LENBERGER: I don't believe it will have any effect in the
wellfield zones because the groundwater protection zone is still going
to apply. It always applied and still does.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So there's no changes--
MR. LENBERGER: No changes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- after that part. All right. Okay,
thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So there's a motion and a
second on the floor to amend the LDC. I cannot support the motion. I
don't remember any time that we didn't have two hearings on LDC
amendments.
MR. KLATZKOW: We just voted at the last meeting on a bunch
of amendments, sir, and it was just the first meeting. I mean, from
time to time we've done one meeting, from time to time we've done
two. It's been at the pleasure of the board.
There are only a small minority of LDC amendments that truly
require two meetings.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All LDC amendments, doesn't the
DSAC hear them twice?
MR. SCHMITT: No.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Doesn't the Planning Commission hear
them twice?
MS. F ABACHER: Excuse me, sir. Catherine for the record. Only
if there are revisions, significant revisions that need to come back
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October 7,2008
would be why they would hear it twice. But, no, they just vote on it
once. And I think the policy was made since -- just so they wouldn't
make any errors earlier on. Patrick White explained tome that we
only have to hear it twice through the board if it changes zoning or it
changes the list of land uses that are permitted, prohibited, conditional,
accessory. The rest of them only require one vote.
It's been the pleasure sometimes of the County Attorney's Office
or the chair to just go ahead and hear them all twice. But since this is
just a huge cycle of 58, 60 amendments --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What does the Florida Statutes say?
Do they reference they have to have a meeting in the -- when you
change the Land Development Code --
MR. KLATZKOW: My recollection is that the statutes require
two meetings for a change in the zoning maps, which is why we do it
here, but you do not need two meetings for just a nonzoning map type
change.
MS. ISTENES: Mr. Chairman, may I clarify? Zoning map
includes changes to the zoning districts in the LDC. The list of
permitted and conditional uses, you have to have two hearings as well.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: In the Florida Statutes, does it say you
have to have an evening meeting on Land Development Code
regulations?
MR. KLATZKOW: My recollection, sir, is that it does, and we
did.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: On this one?
MR. KLATZKOW: On this one, no. You only have to have the
evening ones for the ones that require the two meetings. The idea is,
when you're changing people's zoning, you want people to have the
opportunity to come out in force and say, wait a second. You can't be
changing my zoning because I want to do this or I want to do that. But
for the run-of-the-mill stuff in the LDC, you just don't have that public
need.
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October 7,2008
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Well, that's in 163, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: I believe it might be. Don't quote me on that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. Basically all we're doing here
is making a clarification in the wordage in regards to the overlay,
special overlays, for these wellfields.
MR. KLATZKOW: That is a clarification, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, that's -- okay.
MR. SCHMITT: All you're doing, truly, is exempting any --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep.
MR. SCHMITT: -- impact in the wellfield designated areas from
going through the standard ST review, and this clarifies that it does
not have to go through the EAC because the wellfield ST NAR was
not, and was never meant to be, as restrictive as an ST, special
treatment, overlay or area of critical state concern.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'm beyond that. I'm beyond that.
MR. SCHMITT: Well, Commissioner, we have a meeting on the
30th. We can put this on the agenda for the 30th and bring it back, if
you want --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well -- but I ask also go back in
history and find out what we have done historically.
MR. SCHMITT: We have done both.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And --
MR. SCHMITT: A majority of the time we have heard items
twice, but some cycles, because of the size of the cycles, you have, as
a board, chose to vote on items just to move them through the system.
And, again, this was a very large cycle, and it still is. We have
many items. W ehave a meeting this afternoon with the Planning
Commission. I believe it's the fourth or fifth meeting, maybe -- how
many now? Seven, six -- six meetings with the Planning Commission
as we work through some of the LDC items. And most likely, at least
four of those you will not see on the 30th because they're going to
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October 7, 2008
have to go through extensive rewrite.
So the -- those will most likely be continued into the springtime.
But we're trying to finish this cycle, which was the -- predominantly
consisted of amendments to implement the EAR.
But we can bring this one back on the 30th and just -- if you want
to hear it a second time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may suggest, Commissioner
Henning. I don't think you've got a problem with the substance so
much as the procedure.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And 1 could be wrong on the procedure,
and I think the best thing to do is for me to vote in favor of it and then
go back and look at the procedure. And if I'm wrong, it stands, and if
I'm right, I'll talk to Mr. Klatzkow about it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Would you be so kind as
to possibly bring it back for a regular commission meeting to be able
to discuss it so we can find -- share your findings with us?
MR. KLATZKOW: I can give you all a memorandum on this
issue, if you'd like.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That would suffice for me.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay.
MR. SCHMITT: Jeff, you want to explain what we're going to do
on the 30th, because we're going to have one ordinance. We decided
because of the length of this, rather than split it up, we're going to
have one ordinance so every one of these, in order to meet the 10-day
time limit, we're going to have to summarily approve and vote. If you
want to explain that. I mean, that's going to come back regardless.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. We're going to be taking all this back
to you anyways so that we can file just one ordinance with the
Secretary of State rather than sending it up piecemeal. If we sent it up
piecemeal, there'd be three, four of these. The people would have to
go through to see what the cycle was rather than just having one
ordinance change.
Page 18
October 7,2008
So you're voting on this now. It's been approved, but we're going
to get it back to you on the 30th for one final vote on everything to
send it all to Tallahassee at once.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Any further discussion? I
apologize for all the discussion on this.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Carries unanimously.
The last one is -- oh, this is incorrect citation of 4.08.07, the CRA
designation; is that correct?
MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What are we doing?
MR. LENBERGER: We're correcting--
MS. PABACHER: We are--
MR. LENBERGER: We're correcting the citation. The citation in
the code now does not exist in the code. There is no such section --
subsection, I should say. So we corrected it and put the applicable
subsection in there.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This went through review with the
Planning Commission obviously. And how many times did it come
before the Planning Commission?
MR. LENBERGER: This was heard once by the Planning
Commission.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So there wasn't a lot of
Page 19
October 7,2008
rewrites or anything else that had to be addressed on this particular
issue; is that correct?
MR. LENBERGER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Fiala to
approve the correct citation, second by Commissioner Coletta.
Discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries unanimously.
Any other business?
MS. FABACHER: Just to say that we will continue to October
30th with this hearing.
MR. SCHMITT: Well, that will be -- actually, legally we have to
readvertise.
MS. FABACHER: Well, we'll-- thank you, Joe. We will
readvertise our next --
MR. SCHMITT: That will be the second hearing.
MS. FABACHER: Second hearing, thank you.
MR. SCHMITT: And Commissioners, I thank you for your
patience. We will have a book out to you with everything that was
approved by the Planning Commission this past Thursday and those
items we get through today, and that will bring to a close this cycle.
Page 20
October 7,2008
Like I said, there are probably going to be at least three, maybe
four items, having to do with preserve and preserve management and
some other issues, that -- because of the issues raised -- and.this is all
good stuff. It really is.
We've got some great involvement now -- even though,they've
been through the DSAC and been through several of the
subcommittees, at the Planning Commission we had -- have had
extensive discussions on the impacts and the language throughout the
entire amendment.
And my request to the Planning Commission is, when these get
approved, especially the three or four most controversial, stormwater
and preserves, some other issues, that they can be implemented by the
practitioners who implement them.
And we are working with the industry and Planning Commission
and others so we can draft these amendments that clarify some of the
areas that certainly are not clear in the code. Those amendments may
be moved in the next couple of months because we have to bring
groups together to try and rewrite a lot of that language, and we'll he
working with the committees on that.
So you may not see -- at least four of the items you may not see a
close at the end of this cycle. We may have to bring them back under
either a special hearing or into the next cycle.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You're not going to send us any of
those books before the next commission meeting, are you?
MR. SCHMITT: No, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
MR. SCHMITT: You will not see those -- I think we booked you
-- we booked you to death between compo planning and school
concurrency, and appeal, so no.
That will be out at least two weeks prior to your 30th meeting,
and most of those amendments have been thoroughly vetted. They're
Page 21
October 7,2008
fairly, I'll call them, not controversy and been amended as they went
through the hearings.
There are some involving environmental, environmental issues,
but those have been well vetted and rewritten. The ones that are still
under edit we will move to a future date.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I'm glad the county
manager's here. I've got some real concerns with the amount of
information that we have to go through for each of the board meetings.
It seems to be multiplying to the point where it's almost impossible to
get through all of the material that's given to us.
And I realize it's reference material, but sometimes you have to
dig quite a ways in the reference material. It would be nice if there
was some way to come up with some important facts like a conclusion
page with all the conclusions put on it so that we could readily
reference that.
It's -- to me it's becoming a real burden with the amount of
material that's given to us and expected to absorb in a short period of
time.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And the county manager and I had this
discussion to try to space these meetings out so that material -- that we
can review that ahead of time, not get it prior to the BCC meeting and
get it on an every-other-day -- every-other-week type thing.
Is that correct, County Manager?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Your name, for the record?
MR. MUDD: Jim Mudd, County Manager. What you have this
particular time is, you've got some GMP amendments which you've
already read once, were already transmitted. The ORC came back. We
made whatever corrections that the DCA wanted in that change. So
you've got one book that has those that you've already seen before.
And the executive summary, David Weeks and crew did a very
Page 22
October 7,2008
good job summarizing those particular changes, if there were any
changes, on the one book.
The school concurrency, it boils down to two issues with the
school concurrency. It basically -- and I'll even boil it down, even
down to one issue; off-site requirements when a new school comes in
and who is responsible for those particular issues.
And based on what I've been able to ascertain with the meeting
with the school's superintendent, it's basically going to be a
site-specific agreement that we're going to have to go through based
on what happens with a new school and when it comes on and who's
going to do what to whom and who has the dollars in order to get
things finished.
I see a time when they might have extra capital money, that we
actually borrow money from them in order to do a transportation
improvement and then pay them back at a future year when that goes
on.
I see a time when they might be short when they actually borrow
money from transportation in order to make an improvement and then
pay back at a different time. How far do the sidewalks go?
It's also -- we've just also had an adjudication out of a different
district, but it dealt with the same substance, and that was out of
Hillsborough, and we just got that last week. And that complicates it a
little bit from a county perspective because they got very specific and
they took -- and they took -- piano lessons -- and they took one portion
of the Florida Statute and sided with it, but there's another portion of
the Florida Statute that is diametrically opposed to that opinion.
So it's something we'll have to flush out. But that's the school
concurrency system in a nutshell, and we'll talk about that item just a
little bit more, and then we have the appeal. You received the appeal
book -- no, the first two items, the concurrency and the GMP, we had
those for you on Monday. Yesterday afternoon Susan Murray, after I
had a conversation with her, basically got you the appeal in a binder.
Page 23
October 7, 2008
Now, you did receive two books last week. They're not bound in
a loose-leaf type book, but they were bound with, you know, the
plastic jobs in it, and that was brought to you by, was it Bay Colony?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Golf Bay.
MR. MUDD: Golf Bay, and that was their opinion on the
particular appeal. So you've got them, but so far you've got three
issues, three items on the agenda. The other items on the agenda are
pretty mundane. And I've gone through those last night, and I'll meet
with the commissioner on the particular -- but you'll have a total of
106 items, three of which you've seen which are the big ones, and we
tried to get to you ahead of time before you got your other books so
you could get a heads-up on it.
MR. SCHMITT: And Commissioner, if I could clarify. The
school concurrency, we had a statutory requirement of March, which
was extended by the legislature because of the difficulty counties were
having in negotiating these agreements. That was extended till
December. So we have a date -- a December date, which that is a
critical -- more so to the school board because it would certainly
impact their funding.
MR. MUDD: There are penalties if we do not get this particular
item passed and through and agreed to, not only for the school, but
there is some veiled threats as far as the county is concerned as far as
state funding is concerned.
MR. SCHMITT: Certainly -- believe me, we don't -- we're not
happy with the workload we get either. That's another unfunded
mandate, by the way, from the state.
MR. MUDD: But, Commissioner, I will tell you, you won't have
another GMP series, okay, that goes on. We thought because it was
going to be light on the zoning side of the house that it would
probably be a decent idea to get this one going and because you'd
already seen it before, and there were minor changes because of the
ORC that it shouldn't have been a big issue.
Page 24
October 7,2008
MR. SCHMITT: And these are not --
MR. MUDD: But it is -- but it is --let me finish, Joe. It is
voluminous, and I understand that. My apologies for it. But I don't
believe these items and -- will come back again, and I don't see any
more appeals, at least in the short-term that I know about, unless Joe
has -- Sue?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, we have about three or four more.
MR. MUDD: Oh. Well, I just learned something, okay. But it's
not going to be for next Tuesday, right?
MR. SCHMITT: No.
MR. MUDD: Okay, good.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you very much for your
explanation.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Are we continuing this meeting
or are we adjourning this meeting?
MR. KLATZKOW: We're continuing it, but we're going to have
to readvertise it as well.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes. It will be a continuation of this meeting,
but it will also be a second hearing or a second meeting as well
because we have to readvertise for a second meeting.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Entertain a motion to continue this
meeting to October 30th.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Time is? Nine o'clock?
MS. FABACHER: I'm sorry. I thought you meant what time is it
now. Yes, sir, 9 o'clock.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Nine o'clock, and who --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Nine a.m.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I did.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Nine a.m., thank you.
Commissioner Fiala made the motion and seconded by --
Page 25
October 7,2008
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. He made the motion. I seconded
it. Sorry about that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All right. Commissioner Halas made
the motion to continuation and second by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We're continued.
MS. F ABACHER: Thank you.
*****
Page 26
October 7,2008
*****
!~oal ci (yt t:otJotv ,_::,CITlil1I5~hJl\fJfS
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:43 a.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECI~IST TS ~DER ITS CONTROL
/rf>r'L--
..' \./
TOM HENNING, Chai
ATTEST
DWIGIiT E. BRGC;K, CLERK
lj..:. ~
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AtttStu~'$ .toCh~.~\ del
S 19natura~9~I.iI" ~
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented ~ or as corrected
),,/iJsjof
I
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS.
Page 27