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CLB Minutes 04/16/2008 R April 16, 2008 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida April 16, 2008 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson Richard Joslin Eric Guite' Ann Keller Lee Horn Thomas Lykos Michael Boyd Glenn Herriman ALSO PRESENT: Patrick Neale, Attorney for the Board Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney Michael Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: WEDNESDAY - APRIL 16, 2008 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: March 19,2008 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Angel Carrasco - Request reinstatement of Landscaping-Restr. & Irrigation license Without retesting. Robert Abbondandolo -Request reinstatement of Tile & Marble license without retesting. Charlie Corrado - Request reinstatement of Painting license without retesting. Douglas Fleischmann - Request reinstatement of Painting License without retesting. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case #2008-05 Kurt William Hopson, Sr. d/b/a P J & Sons, Inc. Case #2008-06 Len R. Mustari d/b/a /Seaside Pools of Naples, Inc. IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY MAY 21,2008 W HARMAN TURNER BUILDING, 3RD FLOOR (COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM) 3301 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL NAPLES, FL 34104 (COURTHOUSE COMPLEX) April 16, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Everybody's here. Good morning. Good morning to you. Mics are on? I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board meeting for April, April 16th, 2008; day after tax day. I'd like to start with roll call to my right. MR. HERRIMAN: Glenn Herriman. MR. LYKOS: Tom Lykos. MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. BOYD: Mike Boyd. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning to everybody. Approval of the agenda. Who's going to be doing that now, Michael? Any additions or deletions? MR. OSSORIO: Ian Jackson will be handling that for us today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Good morning, Ian. MR. JACKSON: Good morning. Ian Jackson, contractor licensing, for the record. Staff has an addition at the end of new business. Calvert Courtney, consideration to reinstate license. And there's a deletion, Case No. 2008-06, Len R. Mustari is the deletion. MR. JOSLIN: Was what the name of the first addition? MR. JACKSON: The addition is Calvert Courtney. MR. JOSLIN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Reinstate for what purpose? MR. JACKSON: He was previously in front of the board. His license was suspended pending -- without going into too much detail now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Page 2 April 16, 2008 MR. JACKSON: Pending satisfying some issues. He's looking to reinstate his license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. That's it? MR. JACKSON: That's it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I have a motion to accept the agenda as amended? MR. L YKOS: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Next is approval of the minutes. Ann Keller has read it. Are there any changes? MS. KELLER: I read the part when you were all nervous that there wasn't going to be a quorum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have any amendments to the minutes as they're written? If not, I'll accept a motion. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin, to accept the minutes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. Page 3 April 16, 2008 MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're there. Discussion. New business, here we go. Angel Carrasco, are you present? Angel? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not present. Robert Abbondandolo, are you present? MR. ABBONDANDOLO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Robert, if you'll come up here to this podium right here, I need for you to state your name and the court reporter will swear you in. MR. ABBONDANDOLO: My name is Robert Abbondandolo. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so you're here to reinstate your license because you didn't take your -- or without taking your test because you didn't renew it. Anything you want to add to what's already in the packet? MR. ABBONDANDOLO: Everything is pretty much in the packet. I just ask the board to please review it and please understand that it wasn't done intentionally. My history goes back a long way with the county, as well as Lee County and the other surrounding counties. Previously have held a license in my brother's name that we were in business together before he passed on. After he passed on, I continued to stay in the tile business and went and took the test myself. We've held the license since the early Nineties, possibly late Eighties. I went through a little bit of a period of time where I just made an honest mistake and forgot. No other reason. I just ask for the mercy of the board. Page 4 April 16, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The only thing -- I've got to make a statement here, and the board, as we talk about it. Every one of these are here for the same reason. Which really, coming before the board and filling out these packets and going through all that to me is more time-consuming and difficult than just going ahead and taking the test again. Especially when the test is given on a daily basis from Gainesville Testing. But I also see it as a sign of the times. And this is not just for you, it's for everyone that's here, so don't feel like I'm singling you out. It's a sign of the times, because people that didn't really need their licenses previous to this time -- and I'm not saying that's you-- but all of a sudden they'd like to have one so they can go out and do work. Mr. Ossorio, you want to make a comment on this issue? You're seeing a lot of these, aren't you? MR. OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chair. For the record, Mike Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor. We do. The reason why the code is the way it is, is that it makes the contractor renew his license. I'm sure this is -- maybe this is not the case, this gentleman is from Cape Coral. But I'll give you an example. You're from Orlando and you have one tile job in a high-rise. You come down, get your license, pass your exams, workers' comp insurance. You do that one job and you don't -- we send you notice in the mail in September. You do not renew because you say well, I don't have any work in Collier County so therefore why should I renew my license. Then all of a sudden two years later you'll get work in Collier County and then you want to come to our office and say okay, I'm ready to do some work in Collier County, I want to reinstate my license. Page 5 April 16, 2008 Well, the code is pretty explicit. After 13 months, if you don't -- if you haven't taken the exam within three years and you haven't renewed in 13 months, you need to reinstate. To reinstate your license, you either have to go in front of the licensing board or you're going to have to take the test again. I don't know if that's a penalty. This particular gentleman is from Cape Coral. I don't know if that's the case or not. I think he's still active in Cape Coral. He never closed down your (sic) business or changed your name. So it's the pleasure of the board is -- this gentleman didn't renew his license. We only sent him one notice on a five-by-seven card. Or is this gentleman circumventing the system that well, I don't want to pay the $85 a year to keep my license up because I'm not doing any work in Collier. That is your decision. And maybe he can elaborate on that at all, I'm not sure. MR. ABBONDANDOLO: I can assure you, that wasn't the case, to pay the $85 (sic). That was not the case at all. MR. JOSLIN: You are now licensed in Cape Coral? MR. ABBONDANDOLO: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: How did you manage to get your license renewed in Cape Coral but not in Collier County? MR. ABBONDANDOLO: Like I said, it was an honest mistake that I just did not do it. And I have no other reason but that. And I also am licensed in Collier County -- in Charlotte County as well. I just let it slip through the -- it's not a matter of the money. It's not a matter of not having work and wanting to come back and do work. My licenses mean the world to me. That's my livelihood and it has been my livelihood. And that's just honestly the bottom line. It wasn't trying to slip through the cracks and not renew it. Or for that matter, I know I can put my license on hold if! didn't have the $85, which is not the case. I just made a mistake and just did not renew my license. Page 6 April 16, 2008 MR. JOSLIN: Were you still working here? MR. ABBONDANDOLO: No, sir. MR. JOSLIN: No. MR. ABBONDANDOLO: As you can see in the packet, I've been working for a company called Fire Service for 12 to 15 years. I know the Maudy (phonetic) family personally. They're a reputable company. Any of my relationships are long and lasting. Doesn't mean that I don't do Mrs. Jones down the road one time and what, but it wasn't the case to try to miss an $85 payment. When the inspector had found out that I had not paid my license, I was sure that I did and had nothing to hide and was like, absolutely I have a license here in the county. And the whole time I had thought I did. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: The licensing board went through a lengthy process of fees, adjustment of fees. And if you recall, that one of the things that we actually put in the fee schedule is back fees. So it's no more well, I'll just come in front of the licensing board and reinstate my license and pay a fee. Now if you haven't been licensed in three or four years or five years, you're going to pay all those back fees. You're going to pay the penalty, the $10 a month for three months, and then you're going to pay all back fees as well, so that has helped. MR. JOSLIN: How long has it been since he has been licensed? I mean, what kind of fees would we be talking about? MR. ABBONDANDOLO: I've been licensed since the early Nineties. MR. OSSORIO: When was your license canceled-- MR. JOSLIN: No, when did your license expire here in Collier where you didn't renew it? Page 7 April 16, 2008 MR. ABBONDANDOLO: I think it's two times I missed. Two years. MR. OSSORIO: Probably '06. MR. HERRIMAN: Mr. Chairman, if you hold a real estate license and you fail to renew it, then your license is canceled and you start your 40-hour school all over again. Likewise, if you have an insurance license and you fail to renew it, your license is suspended until you complete your CE credits. So I see no reason to make any exception in these cases. All they got to do is take a test and pay their fines. So therefore, I move that we not reinstate his license without a test. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? MR. BOYD: Second, Boyd. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry. It's unanimous. Gainesville Testing tests every single day. So let's go do it. Charlie Corrado, are you present? MR. CORRADO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know you're thrilled to come up Page 8 April 16, 2008 after that. If you'll state your name and I'll have you sworn in. MR. CORRADO: My name is Charles Corrado. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Charlie, I've got -- name your company again? MR. CORRADO: Corrado Decorating, Incorporated. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And how long -- when did your license in Collier County expire? MR. CORRADO: It expired three years ago. But I did not know, due to my conditions with my mother passing away and then just this last year my nine-year-old niece passing away in Australia. I had to fly back from Australia and we had a job, as I was still working. I had a job where they needed the license and all the paperwork. I went through my bookwork, I couldn't find my new license. So I called up Horseshoe Drive. And then when they told me over the phone that I was not licensed for the last three years, I was totally flabbergasted. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If -- you say you went through your paperwork looking for your new license. Who would have gotten that new license besides you? You have someone -- MR. CORRADO: I do not understand the question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, you say you were looking for your new license. Where would your new license have been if you had never gotten one? MR. CORRADO: I had been filling out all the paperwork as it comes in the mail. I've been paying all the fees that were due through Collier County, Marco -- I work in Marco Island. And I thought I had all the right paperwork situated. Nobody had ever really notified me before then that my license was null and void or revoked. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So for three years you didn't Page 9 April 16, 2008 work in Collier County. MR. CORRADO: No, I have been working in Collier County. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did someone catch you working without a license? MR. CORRADO: No, they did not. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. We see some of those too, they got cited. MR. CORRADO: I wasn't trying to work without a license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. L YKOS: I understand there may be some oversights, but I think three years is too long to go to not have ever had it come into your mind that I haven't renewed my license in a while, maybe I should check into that. I just think three years is too long. I think it's time to go take a test and start from scratch. MR. JOSLIN: I have to agree. I'll make a motion-- MR. CORRADO: But nobody has informed me before then. And I filled out my Workmen's Compo and paid for all the fees. And I would thought that maybe somewhere down the road in the paperwork that it would have been referred to me. It was never meant to be that I didn't mean to, you know, pay my fee or, you know, do my license-ship (sic). CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, the one thing you're required to do as a license holder, it says on every one of the licenses that they're supposed to be publicly displayed in a prominent location. And if you've worked around here for any period of time, most of us have four or five licenses as a minimum. So when one comes in, it kind of keys me that I've got to start making sure those others are done as well. So no, it really doesn't -- it doesn't hold water with me for three years. I'm sorry. MS. KELLER: Well, I think we just need to be consistent. It's Page 10 April 16, 2008 really hard for us to look at different cases and say, oh, this person really suffered difficulties and this. You know, that's really not our job. Our job is to be consistent and fair to everyone who comes in front of us. And unfortunately for people that come forward without having renewed for periods of years, we have to be consistent and say take the test again. MR. NEALE: Well, what I'd -- I'd just like to refer the board to the relevant sections of the code so that you -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. NEALE: Section 22-191, (i) specifically says that if as of the date of the receipt by the county of the new application -- this is for someone whose license has lapsed -- three years have passed since the date of his or her most recent examination that the individual passed to acquire the former certificate, that individual must then pass all current testing requirements. So if three years have lapsed, the code is fairly clear that unless this board finds reason to waive the testing requirements -- and that's specifically what you're here for; what this is here for is to waive testing requirements, not to permit a license -- then they have to take the test if three years have lapsed. MS. KELLER: Three years. Does it say three years from the date of the last time they took the test? MR. NEALE: From the date of the last time they took the test, yes. MS. KELLER: So it has nothing to do with -- MR. NEALE: It doesn't even have to -- if the license has only been void for one year but it's been over three years since they took the test, then unless they can bring forth evidence to show this board the testing would be superfluous, then the individual should take the test again. MR. JOSLIN: I think it's pretty much like the other case. If we Page 11 April 16, 2008 change now, we're going to be I think jeopardizing ourselves. So I'm going to make a motion that we deny. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? MR. HERRIMAN: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry. You've got to study. Douglas Fleischmann, reinstate a painting license. Good morning, sir. MR. FLEISCHMANN: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you will, go ahead and tell us -- are you finding the packet? MR. NEALE: It's the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, Absentee Home Care. MR. NEALE: -- Absentee Home Care, yeah. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't you like that, you get ready to swear in and I mumble? She has to turn back. Sorry about that. Tell us how come you didn't renew. How long ago did you not renew your license? MR. FLEISCHMANN: I think somebody in the office said it Page 12 April 16, 2008 was two years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two years. MR. FLEISCHMANN: I believe. I just -- the end of September when I went and renewed all my other licenses, I paid all my business tax, occupational licenses. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. FLEISCHMANN: And that was September 30th, I think. And I went over to contractor licensing. And at that point I found out that I didn't have my painting license. Up until that day I didn't know anything about it. I wasn't aware of it. I thought I had a valid license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I'm going to -- the other thing I want to do with your file is when you come in here and your license has been terminated or voided, and whether or not we grant you your license without retesting, what this does is your whole -- since you have to renew your license, it opens up your entire file. And it opens up everything. So the thing I'm wanting to look at now before I tell you you have to go test is I want to look at your credit. Because you may very well go retest and pass all your tests, and we're still going to deny you a license because of your credit. MR. FLEISCHMANN: No, I understand that. And I mentioned that in my cover letter to you, that I'm having great financial personal -- personal financial difficulties right now. Worst in my life. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can you pull that mic up or get a little bit closer to it? MR. FLEISCHMANN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say that again? MR. FLEISCHMANN: I said at this point in my life I've encountered some personal financial difficulties, and I'm trying to work my way through it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that's because of the real estate Page 13 April 16, 2008 market? MR. FLEISCHMANN: Because of a partner I had in some properties, and he disappeared on me and left me hanging with everything. MR. JOSLIN: Some partner. MR. FLEISCHMANN: Yeah. Well, I thought he was a good friend at one time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, because I do see judgments in here. MR. JOSLIN: Yeah. MR. FLEISCHMANN: Personally. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Personal. But the license goes to you personally. You are the license holder personally. MR. FLEISCHMANN: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So your credit is affected by it. MR. L YKOS : Your license expired September 30th of '05. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So it's been two and a half years. MR. JOSLIN: I'm sorry, I'm going to have to make the same motion to deny at this time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, what I'm trying to do, and I think we're probably going there, and I'm not trying to put your motion down, but are we going to approve this credit? MR. JOSLIN: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, am I off base here? MR. NEALE: Well, you're absolutely correct in stating that when he comes forward you are reviewing the whole license. You're not just reviewing -- you are reviewing the ability to waive the testing requirement for reinstatement, but you are reviewing the whole application, frankly, at this point, even though the only issue really in front of you is whether to waive the testing requirement. However, the whole packet has been submitted and can be considered. You know, the creditworthiness of the individual is something to Page 14 '~'-----'-"" "__."_..h_._ April 16, 2008 look at, but the primary credit to look at of course is the corporation in an issue where the license is held by the corporation. So __ CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So it's got a shot through the corporation. But we still do consider you personally as well. MS. KELLER: How many employees do you have? MR. FLEISCHMANN: Just myself. Occasionally I'll use some part-time people from one of the labor providers. But I try to do most of the work myself. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Does painting fall under handyman? MR. OSSORIO: No. Painting is -- there's a handyman exemption under 489. This gentleman has a couple of licenses: He has a handyman license and he has a painting license. I believe he's renewed all his occupational -- his business tax receipt. And then he was notified by our office or found out that he didn't renew his certificate. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, he's got a janitorial license in Lee County. He's got quite a few licenses. MR. FLEISCHMANN: I have a painting license in Lee County also. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you? MR. FLEISCHMANN: Uh-huh. I had one in Charlotte County. I let it go a couple years ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got a motion to deny the request. MR. L YKOS: Second, Lykos. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Page 15 April 16, 2008 MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're not going to grant it without retesting. I think we kind of gave you a feel for your credit. You go take the test and come back. MR. FLEISCHMANN: If! take the test and I pass the test, you'd probably still deny me because of my personal credit; is that correct? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can't give you a ruling on that. Except if the corporation is clean as a whistle. You're going to have to be the best judge of that yourself. We can't rule on that without all the documents in front of us. I'm just saying it's going to be an issue that will have to be looked at. MS. KELLER: But your personal finances are also considered because you would be the license holder -- MR. JOSLIN: I would say-- MS. KELLER: -- for the company. MR. JOSLIN: -- if you were trying to work through it, you need to come back before us. And your corporation was clean and your personal is -- you're trying to work through all these problems and maybe paying some of them off and working at it may be a better avenue for it to be approved under those circumstances. But if we see no action on it and it's still the same as it is when it's here today, then I -- you know what's going to happen. MR. FLEISCHMANN: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wish you well. Angel Carrasco, are you present? MR. CARRASCO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, state your name. MR. CARRASCO: Good morning. Page 16 April 16, 2008 Yes, Angel Carrasco. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, sir. MR. CARRASCO: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've read your letter. Lot of problems in your life in the last few years. MR. CARRASCO: In the last two and a half, three years, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you were still making an income or bringing money home for somebody. MR. CARRASCO: Well, the maintenance division, the maintenance crew was working as far as -- you know, one side of the business was working. I wasn't able to work with them. We lose a lot of customers just because the reason that I wasn't able to be around. We talk to my customers and we tell them the situation that we were going through. Some of them, you know, they say well, we'll decide to stay with you and see what happens. Some of them, they stay with us for a while and then they just let go. When I find out about my license, I believe it was in September or October, they tell me to bring the paperwork and they reinstate my license. So they give me until December the 20 something to do that. And December the 15 or the 20th, my ex-wife in Mexico got sick. And I have a son with her, so I went back to help her out. She was sick, you know, for all those days. Finally she passed away on January the 7th. So between the wife -- my wife, my three kids and all those things that piled up together, you know, I just got through that, I didn't have a head for anything else. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long has it been since -- when did it expire? MR. CARRASCO: I believe it was in 2006. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say that again? Page 17 April 16, 2008 MR. CARRASCO: 2006. 2006. I think it was -- I'm not sure if it was September, December, but it was in 2006 when it expire. And like I said, last year I went to the office and they tell me to bring all the paperwork, so I did. But I couldn't come back and do the final paperwork because of the situation with my ex-wife. So we went back. Through all this times my wife here in Naples, she's been going through different surgeries. Last one -- I mean, she was having one just about every year. And then about eight weeks ago she had one and the last one was about four weeks ago. So -- and I have three kids, as you see in my letter. And all three of them go to the school, and they have different timings to go to school. So between taking care of the kids and the wife and all that, I mean, I've got to be honest, I didn't have a head for anything else. Even though I lose, I will say, 40 percent or better of my customers, you know, we still have been able to survive, even though if you see my -- actually, we don't have anybody -- my banking statements, but we have a lot of, you know, overdraw fees and stuff. I have a foreclosure pending in my house. Now we work it out something with them, we give them some money and we going to start making payments so we don't lose the house. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me ask you: How many employees do you have? MR. CARRASCO: It's only two employees. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two employees. So you had a lawn service mowing -_ MR. CARRASCO: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, that's what you were running? MR. CARRASCO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you could not work. MR. CARRASCO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Only thing I'm looking at this, guys, Page 18 ~~-_..----..- --.._----._-. April 16, 2008 as we look at his packet, his occupational licenses are up to date, his state registration is up to date, his insurance is there. I mean __ MR. JOSLIN: I don't see Workmen's Compo MR. NEALE: Well, and the only examination for restricted landscaper -- I just want to make sure Mr. Ossorio and I are on the same -- is a business and law. MR. OSSORIO: No, that's not correct. That has changed. MR. NEALE: Oh, because of the tree trimmer. MR. OSSORIO: Tree, yeah. He has to take an additional exam. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, the tree -- MR. OSSORIO: He's going -- unfortunately he wants his irrigation, so he would have to take the irrigation exam, the two-hour business procedure test and also take the tree exam. Angel was notified that -- in December he was notified that he had to renew with some penalties. Unfortunately that's the cutoff, December 31 st. January 1 st is over 13 months. So he's about 110 days over. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you had the irrigation before? MR. OSSORIO: Uh-huh. Yeah, you could see he had his irrigation. MR. CARRASCO: Yeah, I was on irrigation. And, you know, tree installations, we never done any trees. We never touch trees. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, but you were -- he was allowed to do trees. He didn't want to do trees, that's fine. MR. CARRASCO: Oh, yeah, we were allowed. But no, I never touch trees. MR. OSSORIO: But he would have to -- if the __ CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did we do something with them to where they had to take in a certain period of time some __ MR. NEALE: No, what the code was changed to is that any new applicant for a landscaping license would have to pass the tree exam. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The tree exam. Page 19 April 16, 2008 MR. NEALE: And he would fall under the new applicant definition, because his license lapsed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So there's a separate tree exam. MR. NEALE: Yeah. MR. JOSLIN: So in fact if we were (sic) to approve this license that he's asking for today without taking the test, then he would be able to do trees also without taking the test. MR. NEALE: Correct. Because what you're waiving actually is two examinations -- MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. NEALE: -- for this -- actually three examinations for this __ under this. You're waiving the irrigation exam because he has an irrigation license, you'd be waiving the business and law exam, and you'd also be waiving the tree exam. In order to waive all of those, you would have to have evidence presented and put on the record that he has adequate knowledge and experience in all of those areas to waive all three of those exams. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or we could waive two and require one. MR. NEALE: That's the board's prerogative, sure. MR. JOSLIN: Could we waive two and restrict one? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm thinking make him take the tree exam. MR. JOSLIN: Tree exam? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sure. MR. HORN: Mr. Chair? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. HORN: Question. At the end of the credit report, I can't tell if this is against the personal report or the company's business report, there's a state tax lien listed. It's after the list of reference checks and all that on the credit report on the next page. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That thing's hard to read. Page 20 April 16, 2008 MR. HORN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can you read it? Your eyes are better than mine. MR. HORN: Says state tax lien, 12/3/07 in the amount of 3,359, I think. It might be 38. I can't tell. I'm just not sure if that's personal or corporate. MR. JOSLIN: Could you advise us a little bit on this? MR. CARRASCO: I think it's got to be my personal. I don't think -- I don't have a copy with me, but I think it was my personal. Because like I said, the worst thing on my credit right now is we've been late in every single thing on my personal record. Because like I said, money is very short right now. I mean, very short. The business, we haven't had -- I mean, not one thing on it. It's just my personal. I mean, you can see it all over the place in my bank accounts and everywhere. I mean, I've been late on everybody. And, you know, we talk to everybody and now with -- they taking payments and now we're getting, you know, almost update with our payments. MR. HERRIMAN: On Page 05 where the tax lien appears, that's a company report. That's not personal. MR. HORN: That's what I wasn't sure on. Thank you, sir. MR. JOSLIN: So it's a business tax lien. MR. OSSORIO: Business tax. MR. HERRIMAN: Yeah. MS. KELLER: I'm a little concerned that -_ MR. CARRASCO: That's the tax lien? Well, we make payments on that. Our taxes as well, too. We're making payments in every single thing right now. Obviously it's going to take me some time before I can get updated, you know, with all my payments, so -- MR. JOSLIN: I don't know, but I'm seeing a whole lot of negative things here. Page 21 April 16, 2008 MS. KELLER: I just want to go back and say how consistent we have to be as a board in dealing with these things. And we're going to see many more like this because of the economy. And as you can see, we've had -- everyone who's come in has had a family problem along with the financial problem. So, you know, as a board we need to decide how we're going to handle these, because MR. CARRASCO: Well, before those two years, I mean, we were having no problems once our license was fine, everything was fine. I mean, permits we pull out, everything was -- I mean, we have never been cited, we have never been any bad records as far as our company. The problem start after my wife got sick and we started -- I mean, I just let go of my work. I mean, basically I wasn't really working. You know, that's when my problems start. I mean, I don't want to ask you for something that I know I wasn't unfair (sic). But, I mean, it was something that we didn't ask for, you know. And I know it's not your fault, but, I mean, it was something that we just been trying to work as much as we can. And try to __ everybody. I mean, talking to everybody from mortgages to tax collectors to hospitals, medical bills. I mean, medical bills for my wife has been, you know, one after the other. And we have one of the kids that we go to the school, actually we have to pay for the other school. So we cut her time in half. So we didn't pay anything, because they have like federal, you know, aid. So they help us with that so she didn't lose the school. But I mean, we've been cutting all the corners try to make, you know, all the payments to be brought it up to date with it. MS. KELLER: With my consumer hat on, I say what is the risk to the consumer in giving a license to somebody in this financial situation and in this accountability situation? And so if we use a blanket for all different types of licenses, I'm not sure that's the right Page 22 April 16, 2008 thing, either. Because in his case he's taking care of someone's lawn and they're paid monthly. And so there's not a whole lot of risk to the consumer. And some type of contractor where you have to give them money up front, yes, there's a huge risk. So I don't know if we need to think more about how we're dealing with these and look at them based on, you know, what is the risk to the consumer, and helping this person in their trade to get back on their feet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, and I think you fall under the same category of the gentleman before you. You fortunately have an advantage. You're still in business. You can still do lawns. MR. CARRASCO: Kind of, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Only thing we're talking about here is tree trimming and irrigation. MR. CARRASCO: Basically tree -- I mean, the irrigation. We don't do tree trimming. I mean, I know it's required, but, you know, it's one of the things that -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you're still in business. MR. CARRASCO: Uh-hum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're also a bright individual. You could easily pass that test. There is a new tree trimming guideline that we did institute that you're going to have to learn, and that's good. I consider that continuing education. So -- and you know when you come back and you pass those tests -- and they're given daily -- after you pass those tests, you know that you've got a credit issue and you can prepare yourself to come before the board with that credit issue. So we're not shutting you down. MR. CARRASCO: So what does that credit issue mean? Now that -- even if I still making payments with them and even though if Page 23 April 16, 2008 we were behind, when I come back to you and we still owe money, even though that we make payments, then you're going to deny it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you show responsibility and you show that you're making payments. The fact that you tell me you're making payments means nothing. If you have letters from these people that they have made an agreement with you. You're smart enough to figure out what we want to see. Okay, I'm not saying it's going to pass, but you're smart enough to figure out what we need. MR. NEALE: I'd like to make one point just -_ CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale. MR. NEALE: -- based on the definition within Collier County Code and state statute and rules as to what financial responsibility is comprised of, as contained in the Florida Administrative Code 6lG4-l5.006. And the part two is the financial responsibility grounds on which the board shall refuse to qualify an applicant. Shall include in part B is the existence within the past five years preceding the application of an unsatisfied court judgment rendered against the applicant based upon the failure of the applicant to pay its just obligations to parties with whom the applicant conducted business as a contractor. So if there's an unsatisfied court judgment out there, the state rule is fairly clear that you shall deny it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's the corporation, correct? MR. NEALE: That's the corporation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which even with the man before, it was not the corporation. And here -- does that consider -- does that consider taxes? Does that fall under that purview? MR. NEALE: Well, that's the verbiage that makes it unclear to this situation. And obviously that's not something -- I'm doing this more for Mr. Carrasco's ability to know what he needs to do ifhe comes back, is that: It's the failure of the applicant to pay its just Page 24 April 16, 2008 obligations to parties with whom the applicant conducted business as a contractor. This appears to be, you know, based on the little bit of evidence here, a state tax lien of some sort. MR. L YKOS: So we would have the subjective ability. Ifhe wrote a letter saying that he was making payments on this debt, subjectively we could say that that takes him out of the realm of not fulfilling that obligation. MR. NEALE: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we can-- MR. NEALE: The board has pretty broad latitude. Because the real definition is the financial responsibility is defined as the ability to safeguard that the public will not sustain economic loss resulting from the contractor's inability to pay his lawful contractual obligations. That's the full definition. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we can do probation where we monitor him. There's lots of things we can do if we feel the individual's making an effort. MR. JOSLIN: So let me get this straight now. Is there a possibility that we can just continue his landscape license and restrict the other two licenses until he takes the test? So it doesn't really stop him from totally working but -- MR. NEALE: The landscape license, as it currently is constituted in the code, requires the tree trimming. MR. JOSLIN: You have to have that. So we can't restrict him in MR. NEALE: Ifhe comes in with a new application, which I would suggest that this probably should be deemed a new application, then he would have to take -- either take or have waived the tree trimming test. MR. JOSLIN: So we're either going to grant this or we're not. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So lawn service is under occupational, Page 25 April 16, 2008 isn't it? MR. CARRASCO: It's under occupation. So in other words, I have to take the tree test, the tree trimming test? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we haven't gone there yet. MR. JOSLIN: Not yet. What's the pleasure, gentleman? Should I be the bad guy? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll make the motion. I move that we deny the request and that Mr. Carrasco be required to take all three tests. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're still in business. Discussion? MR. L YKOS: Where does that leave Mr. Carrasco? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Carrasco, before he gets tree trimming and irrigation, is going to have to pass those three tests. MR. NEALE: But he is still -- he still can do lawns. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He can still do lawns. That's under an occupational license. MR. L YKOS: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So he's got his monthly service coming in. But he's going to have to go take those three tests and then he can do a new application with those tests to get the irrigation and tree trimming. And we can address the credit issue at that. And we've given him guidelines for the credit issue. MR. L YKOS: I understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. Page 26 April 16, 2008 All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Study. It's Gainesville Testing. Calvert Courtney? Mr. Courtney, I need for you to stand, state your name and I'll have you sworn in. And then I do recognize that you're being represented by counsel and I can let him take the lead at that time. MR. COURTNEY: My name is Calvert Newton Courtney. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. SCHNEIDER: Michael Schneider, on behalf ofMr. Courtney. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Schneider. MR. SCHNEIDER: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pat, do you want him over there? MR. NEALE: No, just there's a microphone over there ifhe feels more comfortable. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Schneider, you're not going to offer any testimony or anything, are you? MR. SCHNEIDER: Actually, I might. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I need to have you sworn in, then. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. SCHNEIDER: Basically I'm just here to answer some Page 27 April 16, 2008 questions, if you have any. Mr. Courtney's going to address the board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: As you all speak, I need to make sure you're close to that mic. Okay, I don't know what we're here for. What are we here for? We suspended your license. MR. NEALE: The order as issued in March of last year was that the license was suspended due to a failure to renew. Suspension was to remain in place until all actions set out in the order were successfully completed. And he filed a full and complete application with the board -- with the Contractor Licensing Department. And then that license had -- that application had to be reviewed and approved by the board. So he had to come back here in order to get his license reinstated. MR. SCHNEIDER: That's correct. MR. JOSLIN: Do we have a packet that was issued by him? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We have this. MR. JOSLIN: Oh, this is it. Okay. MR. COURTNEY: Board, can I make an opening statement? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. COURTNEY: Again, my name is Calvert Courtney. I've been in this business a very long time. I'm 52 years old. I'm a fourth generation native Floridian. I'm degreed in horticultural. I'm a Florida certified horticulturalist. Been in the paver business a long time. I have, in my book of business in Collier County since the year of '02, 2002, 790 clients. We've had problems with 10. I wish I could tell you today it was none. But I have a long history of performance and integrity. There's some events that lined up in my life that were very, very unusual. And as we go through this today and you look at this group of information, I think you will agree. And it culminated in some wrong actions on my part and you took my license and rightfully so. And I hurt some people financially. Page 28 April 16, 2008 I have brought on board to help me satisfy some of these problems Mr. Mike Schneider. Mike's done some due diligence, understanding that as an applicant I don't have a lot of credibility but Mike as a third party does. We have met the majority of the conditions to request for the license back. And I'd like to go through this information and show you what we've done with these folks. And Mike has done most of the footwork on this, thank goodness. But I'm going to ask for a few minutes of your time and some focus today, because there are some very unusual things that are in this package. And when you begin to see them, you'll see the problems that have evolved in my life and how they culminated in affecting my client. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, let me give you some direction. What we are interested in is what you did on page number three with the requirements that we put upon you at that hearing. Specifically one through -- how many are there? One through six. MR. COURTNEY: Yes, sir, there are several items there. There were four people and one condition. There's a $2,000 investigative fee. Mr. Schneider has a cashier's check to the Collier County Board of Commissioners for the $2,000. If you will go over to section two, the orange tab. MR. JOSLIN: If I could just put you on hold one second. Mr. -- what's the gentleman's name here? MR. SCHNEIDER: Schneider. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Schneider, what capacity are you, attorney? MR. SCHNEIDER: I'm an attorney, yes. MR. JOSLIN: Attorney, okay, just so I know. You can continue. MR. COURTNEY: If you go over to number two, what we have done here, what Mr. Schneider has done, is contact the entities that were involved. And we have worked out some agreements that they're happy with and that I'm happy with. And they are a substantial down payment on the indebtedness, and Mr. Schneider to manage the Page 29 April 16, 2008 monthly repayment of these people. All the monies are to come into his firm and he'll disperse them. He's personally spoken to those people and we've worked out a deal that they think is equitable and that I think is manageable. This all hinges on the ability to go to work. To execute the enclosed promissory notes without the ability and the capacity to pay is irresponsible. So what I'm here today to do is to hope I can reach an agreement with you guys that I'm making my very best effort to satisfy every demand and that I can also go to work for my family and my life as well. I'm concerned for my clients and my children and myself. And what I've done is my very best effort at that. I currently have a business tax receipt and an occupational license. I've been doing simple things, mowing grass. I've gone from an $800,000 a month business and 31 employees and 32 acres of nursery to me. And I'm willing to build that back, if you guys will give me an opportunity. From a perspective of the credit -- as I've sat, I've really gotten an education this morning listening to you guys. The name of the license was Brickstone Pavers. If you look in section two, there is nothing credit-wise in Brickstone Pavers negative at all. There is, however, a number of items on my personal side. There is one with Winfield Building and Development Corporation for a home that we did down in Port Royal. And we have struck a deal -- Mike has, and you're welcome to ask him to verify anything that I say -- we have struck a deal with WBDC, and they're very content with it. Everybody that we have dealt with seems happy with our earnest money on the front end and the agreed on monthly payments and the imposed monitoring system with Mr. Schneider being involved. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where is that? MR. COURTNEY: The promissory notes are in chapter two, are in section two. And you'll see the promissory note with a photocopy of Page 30 April 16, 2008 the cashier's check as the earnest money right behind each note. Now, these have not been executed. Mr. Schneider has their verbal agreement. They have not been executed again, because without the license I don't have the capacity to honor the monthly commitments. So it's a tough situation, you guys. In the credit report on my personal, you're going to see two things: One is Collier County Government, which is Winfield Building -- or Collier County Civil Court, which is Winfield Building and Development, and that's one of the ones that we've arranged -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How did you end up? Explain that. What happened? MR. COURTNEY: I had a series of events that happened in my life. One of them -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm talking about the job. MR. COURTNEY: The job. I lost key people. My son, who was my right-hand man, is now in prison. And it collapsed, my organization. And I was way administra -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You were doing -- okay, you're going into a whole lot more than what I'm -- you were subcontracted with Winfield Building. MR. COURTNEY: Pavers and Landscaping. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. On a job in Port Royal. MR. COURTNEY: Green Dolphin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you do the job? MR. COURTNEY: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, but you didn't pay your suppliers. MR. COURTNEY: There was an irrigation contractor that we did not pay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you didn't pay, okay. So that's where the lien came from. MR. COURTNEY: That's it. Page 31 April 16, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. COURTNEY: Clay Winfield paid him, paid Alan, and then put the lien on me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Gotcha. Okay. MR. COURTNEY: The second that's listed on my personal credit report that is a judgment is a Hillsborough County Circuit Court Federal Tax Lien. And I have another document back here in Section 7 that I'd like you to look at that shows this lien satisfied. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is this the 1O,000? MR. COURTNEY: No, it's the 11,100 is Winfield. It's the one below that on the end balance report, you guys. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm trying to stay with you, but you're not -- MR. JOSLIN: 10,000 one? MR. L YKOS: The 2,000. Hillsborough tax lien is 2,000. MR. SCHNEIDER: For 1995. MS. KELLER: Can we look at this when we have more time to look through the material? I mean, I don't even have a copy, and you're hogging it. MR. SCHNEIDER: I have an extra copy, if you'd like. MR. NEALE: Yeah, there's extra copies. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: First time I've been called a hog. MR. JOSLIN: From what I'm gathering out of this whole package at the moment is that this is more or less an offer to the board members for us to go back and change our findings of fact and conclusions of law when we took this penalty and placed this penalty upon him. And I believe what he's trying to do is to say to us that if we will waive this order that we've given already and put it on temporary hold and allow him to work, that he will take care of certain items on the penalty that he was given. Which I'm not really fond of doing that at Page 32 April 16, 2008 the moment. It seems like since this order came down you haven't acted on any of it, other than trying to put something together. Am I true? Have you paid a red dime on anything that you owed? MR. COURTNEY: There's a reason for that. MR. JOSLIN: No, I'm asking a question. Did you pay a red dime on anything that's been owed? Sorry, a silver dime. MR. COURTNEY: There are cases that were paid that were not reported to you. There were other clients that have not come through this particular -- not come through Collier County Licensing that went through civil process. Yes, I have paid some. There is one mitigating circumstance here. MR. JOSLIN: But the reason why your license is placed on hold and the actual order of the board was for you to do certain actions, and that would reinstate -- or get your license reinstated or could get your license reinstated if you acted on those items, which those you haven't acted on. MR. COURTNEY: Can I give you a reason for that? MR. JOSLIN: You can. MR. COURTNEY: Thirty days after this meeting I went to a hearing for child support in Manatee County. My attorney had arranged a situation supposedly that I was to be there 15 minutes. MR. SCHNEIDER: Not me. MR. COURTNEY: No, not Mike. The attorney had a sleep disorder and had not arranged this, had personal problems. I went to jail. I've just gotten out. Over indirect non-contempt -- indirect non-criminal contempt of court. MR. JOSLIN: That wasn't you, though, right? MR. SCHNEIDER: No, that was not me. MR. L YKOS: I'm not comfortable overturning a previous board's requirements, I don't care what the circumstances. I just don't Page 33 April 16, 2008 like the idea of going back on what -- there was a previous board that heard all the circumstances that made a decision, and I'm just not comfortable overturning what a previous board decided. MR. SCHNEIDER: Can I say one thing? I understand all that and respect it. The reason is -- why I contacted all the people that are listed in there was because I think it's in the interest of the consumers, the clients, the people who lost their money, to get their money back. And that's what we're attempting to do. He quite frankly does not have the financial wherewithal to satisfy that. He's doing the very best that he can do to come up with and make them happy. I've spoken to them all, they are all happy with this agreement. It seems like it would satisfy the spirit and the intent that the board is trying to do. MR. JOSLIN: I can appreciate that fact and those words. However, I just can't fathom the fact that nothing has taken place since this order came down. I mean, I understand that now you have a $2,000 check that you're willing to give to someone here to payoff something, and something is going to happen if we reactivate your license or allow you to work. And that's not going to happen in my book. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, have you found this yet? Have you found this case? MR. NEALE: Yeah, I mean, I've got the case up. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wasn't he going to -- didn't he have a bunch of equipment or something he was going to sell to satisfy this? MR. NEALE: I'll take a look at the notes on that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because there were a lot of promises made a year ago. MR. JOSLIN: That's right. MR. COURTNEY: Mr. Dickinson (sic), your recollection is correct. There is some equipment. We can't get a dime on a dollar. My Page 34 April 16, 2008 wife attempted to sell it while I was incarcerated for six months, and there's just no market for it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But this is not the first time you've come back. You came back one other time and you had sold some equipment. MR. COURTNEY: I settled them and new cases came forward. There were a total of 10. Five of them are behind us and five of them are in front of us, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, we haven't heard them all. MR. COURTNEY: They're all included in this package. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, Mr. Ossorio, bring me up to date. MR. OSSORIO: We had one formal hearing, Mr. Ginn, 2007, I think it was Case No.1 that he did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm having trouble hearing you. MR. OSSORIO: There was a case in 2007, I think it was Case No. 01, ofMr. Ginn, and Calvin Courtney did return the deposit and satisfied your order. There are several other cases out there that I'm going to attempt to find and locate. But I have some concerns is that why -- and this is the first I've seen this packet, so I haven't looked at it, reviewed it. But I feel uncomfortable that Mr. Courtney was waiving a $2,000 check for investigative costs that was supposed to be due in 10 days, you know, and now he's going to hold Collier County hostage that listen, you know, give me my license back and I'll give you, you know, number four. That doesn't sit well with me. But I'm not a legal counselor and I'm not here to tell you that. But it clearly states in the order that within 10 days he has to come up with $2,000 to go ahead and satisfy the investigative costs with Collier County. He did not do so, and he was not in jail at the time. So, you know, that's my thought. Page 35 April 16, 2008 MR. NEALE: In January of'07 he was here on Case 2007-01. And at that point in time it was against homeowner Ginn, as Mr. Ossorio refers to. And I'm just trying to go through my notes here. MR. COURTNEY: Mr. Ginn was paid. MR. NEALE: And he said he wanted time to pay him off. And I guess he did pay them off at that time. Then he was back here again on March 21 st of the same year on these two cases. And at that point in time he was going -- as he said, going to sell off equipment and was going to payoff people at that time. He's put forth other mitigating circumstances, as you've heard. But that was what had happened at that time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I remember Mr. Ginn. Yeah, I remember you did pay him off. But you had a bunch of equipment that you were going to sell, take care of all this. MR. COURTNEY: The meeting was March 21st. I went to jail on April 4th. And my wife sold some small pickup trucks to survive on while I was gone. And we have some large trailers and dump trucks and I can't sell them. I can't get a dime on the dollar for them. My first choice was to pay these people and come in and ask for it. And Mr. -- Mike, I'm sorry that you're feeling like I'm holding you hostage. It's not that. I don't have the capacity to pay. All I've ever done in my life is this kind of work. I'm 52. I've got to go retrain and get a new occupation and figure out how to pay these people. I'm not holding hostage, I'm just being realistic. This is the only way that I have the capacity to pay Mundy Isaac (phonetic.) And I like the people. I personally want to pay him back. I want to walk with my head high in Naples. I live here. I own a home. And I don't have any training to do anything else. This is all I know, all I've ever done since I was a small child. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I understand. It's a -- and I understand all these people are happy with this. I've got some people Page 36 April 16, 2008 that haven't paid me. If they offered me something, I would be happy, too. MR. COURTNEY: I have the same thing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So that doesn't go anywhere. And then I worry about you. It's like why do you want to get back in this? There's no profits out there. MR. COURTNEY: You know, it's amazing. I have 790 people. Again, 10 of them are unhappy. I get five to eight calls a month, people wanting additional type of work. And my overhead was $120,000 a month for many years. It's nothing now. So I'm going to be extremely efficient at one employee. Very slow, be very conservative. And my focus is on paying these people back. It's my intent to do it earlier. I was going to make the concession to not do any deposits. I'll let the consumer buy the materials and I'll do the labor, and slow and steady and pay these people and get my life back and a future and educate my kids and retire. MR. L YKOS: What's the total dollar amount owed -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, I don't know. MR. L YKOS: -- based on the previous order by the board? What's the total dollar amount you owe people? MR. COURTNEY: I added to it. MR. SCHNEIDER: We included interest, 10 percent interest calculation on these promissory notes. MR. L YKOS: What's that total amount? MR. SCHNEIDER: On the four promissory notes, it would be approximately I think about $36,000. That's off the top of my head. MR. L YKOS: Well, then I think you need to find a way to earn $36,000 to get those people paid back. Maybe you're making strides towards accomplishing what the previous board asked you to do, but you haven't gotten there yet. I think you need to go out, earn $36,000 and get everybody paid, and Page 37 April 16, 2008 then come back and tell us that you've accomplished what we've asked you to do and not tell us you're going to do what we've asked you to do. MR. JOSLIN: Or at least you made an honest effort to do this in the past since '07. And a year later nothing has happened, or very little has happened. I understand you have problems, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The reason we took this action is because he did pay Mr. Ginn back. And if! remember, Mr. Ginn was from Marco Island. I may be wrong. But I remember Mr. Ginn did come in and testify that he had been paid back. But then we had more cases come up. So what was happening was the jobs he was doing, he was using that money to payoff old bills, which is a common thing. I mean, we all would do the same thing. But it wasn't accomplishing anything, because we just had new jobs that were now in trouble. And we've gotten other cases that haven't come forward. We didn't bring them forward because you were suspended. And that's what's going to happen here right now. You're asking us to do this. And I understand, I fully understand. But you've got to understand us, too. You're asking us to do this but you haven't satisfied what we asked you for last time. So you're no further ahead. I know you may have a circumstance. But then we grant you this, we've got more cases over here that we'll bring -- that the county will have to bring forward, and that just compounds your problems. MR. COURTNEY: Mr. Dickson, all of the cases that Mr. Ossorio has are here. The people have been addressed. There isn't anything else. I haven't had -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There isn't anything else? Okay. MR. COURTNEY: I haven't had any activity in 12 months. I was incarcerated. There isn't anything new. Mike's got it all. And they're all -- Mike -- Mr. Schneider has spoken to all of them. There isn't anything left. Page 38 April 16, 2008 And I've paid off a great deal more than Mr. Ginn. There were a total of five others. And I honored my commitment through Mike Ossorio and Andy to payoff, and did each one of them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why can't you sell that equipment? MR. COURTNEY: Can't get a dime on the dollar. They're heavy-duty trailers. There's nobody -- I've called every paver contractor there is. There's nobody that wants to buy 30-ton trailers and big dump trucks. They've got theirs sitting still. We sold small pickup trucks and my wife literally used that to live on while I was incarcerated. If! would have not gone to jail in April, I think we'd have had this problem solved back May of last year. But I haven't been here, I was locked up in Manatee County. MR. JOSLIN: How would you have done that? MR. COURTNEY: Work. Somehow. I've made some money in the simple things that I've been doing with my occupational license. I could do it again, it's just going to take a very long time. I'd have had some time to get it together. These people have gone a year. They were so glad to hear from Mr. Schneider and they were anxious to get the money. One woman's father has just been laid -- her husband has been laid off and she can't make the mortgage payment. This was going to pay her. They were glad to hear. And I want a clear conscience. I'm an honest man. I've lived in this town five years, and I'm a native of Manatee County. We're four generations. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But I'm also offended by the fact that you come in here with promissory notes and copies of cashier checks that you haven't executed or given to the people until you had work to go forward. That doesn't cut it. MR. COURTNEY: Well, tell me what you would do. If! don't work I can't honor the agreement. I'm -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd at least execute the promissory Page 39 April 16, 2008 notes. MR. COURTNEY: We thought the wise thing to do -- they were going to come to Mr. Schneider's office. I thought that was the right way to handle it. They all knew -- the people know that it's contingent upon being able to work. They understand that. I'm surprised they didn't call Mr. Ossorio. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's frustrating. MR. L YKOS: Well, the other concern I have is that if we allow you to go back to business, if you haven't got this current mess cleaned up, we could be giving you the opportunity to create more messes. I mean, show us that you -- I understand that you feel honorable in fulfilling these commitments to these people, but you haven't done it yet. And if we give you the opportunity, we could be giving you the opportunity to take down more people with you. Show us that what you committed to is done so that we're not creating an opportunity -- I don't want to see you back here in another year and it's gotten worse. Because then you come in and say I had mitigating circumstances and, you know, I promised to pay these promissory notes but I didn't make enough money, I needed to -- you know, ifI'd have got my house foreclosed on then I couldn't pay anybody back. So now you'd have promissory notes you couldn't fulfill, and then you'd have more jobs that you got problems with. I think, you know, it's very honorable that you want to honor these debts, but I think you need to pay them and come back. Otherwise, we could be creating a situation where we're digging you a bigger hole. Let's take the shovel out of your hand. MR. JOSLIN: If you're telling this board that you can -- that if you -- in April if you weren't incarcerated that you could have had some of this taken care of, I think probably the step that you should take now is maybe have this nice attorney of yours put together a little package for these people with payments that you can make, payments that you can feel confident about trying to make a monthly payment to Page 40 April 16, 2008 them. Even if it's a small amount. But at least you're going to be making that effort to pay some of this off. Give it, I don't know, maybe 90 days worth. I'm not going to give you a time span for sure, but give it a period of time. And then maybe come back before this board, and then maybe we can give you a temporary situation to allow you to do more work. But right now I don't think there's a member on this board that's going to approve what you're asking for, because you're just -- you haven't made any effort at all, and then you bring this check in, which is not a good thing. I think you need to take care of that right away, which is going to get at least this part of it off your back. That's my best suggestion. I'm not certain how the other board members feel, but that's how I think. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You made the same convincing argument with your equipment and you didn't come through on that. I would be driving that equipment up to Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, South -- you know, it's not all that bad up there. But you did make the same convincing argument that you could do all of this with that equipment. That hasn't come through. I'm not -- and you haven't satisfied any of these issues that we said you had to do. Not a single one is satisfied. MR. COURTNEY: I'm prepared today to do that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you should have been -- it was due in 10 days. MR. COURTNEY: I got -- I went to jail, Mr. Dickinson (sic). I did. I went to a hearing -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You came back and saw us in January . MR. COURTNEY: Yeah, I went to -- in March -- on April 4th I went. I was here on the 21st of March. That's 13 days later. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When did you pay offMr. Ginn? Page 41 April 16, 2008 MR. COURTNEY: Before that. Mr. Ginn and Mr. Murray. I can't even remember the names that Mike and I went through. But I understand your position. The only thing I can say to Mr. Lykos about, you know, that I can do more damage, I have 40 something years in the business doing it honestly. Some very unusual circumstances happened and there's a couple of years of hardship. I am the 40-year person, not the couple of year's hardship. And there -- I feel like there could be stipulations made. I'm willing to not take any down payments, not put them at risk. I just -- I came with what I thought was a responsible offer. And the people I thought were very open to this and thought it was a good idea, too. They wanted to move forward with it. I'm sorry that we couldn't work out some kind of agreement. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've got to satisfy the original case. MR. JOSLIN: Or at least make one heck of an attempt on it. MR. COURTNEY: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I need a motion, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: I make the motion to deny this finding of facts to reVIew. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have a second? MR. HORN: Second, Horn. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. Page 42 April 16, 2008 MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, gentlemen. Our case just went out the door. MR. NEALE: It may be time for a break, anyhow. MR. JOSLIN : Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Gentlemen, did you want to say something? Did you come back for a reason? UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: We were just listening. We didn't know if we were allowed to stay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, sure. MR. JOSLIN: Sure you can. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sure. It's kind of a rough day. Since our case is out in the hallway, let's take a 10-minute break. (Recess. ) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to call back to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board of April 16th, 2008. And I thought we had a case. But can someone tell me what happened to the people that were here? MR. OSSORIO: Yes, Mr. Chairman. For the record, Mike Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor. Case No. 2008-06, Len R. Mustari, is going to be continued. Obviously we had a meeting. We talked to you earlier about that. He's going to have a -- we're going to postpone that at least till next month. And also Case No. 2008-05, Kurt William Hopson, is going to -- we're going to postpone that till next month as well. So we won't be hearing any cases today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So can I ask all the board members, please keep those cases and bring them with you next month. Page 43 April 16, 2008 So with that -- MR. NEALE: We're done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- I have a letter to read that I'm not at all thrilled about. It's the most popular member of this board, even though she called me a hog. It says, as my second term on the Contractor Licensing Board is coming to an end this fall, 2008, I've decided not to serve another time. I will also be out of the country for the entire summer, so I would like to resign my position early. My last meeting will be May of2008. Thanks for all of you putting up with a lay person, educating me over the last six years as representative of the consumer. I do believe their interests are respected by this board and I've grown to develop my views from the contractor's perspective as well. I look forward to watching you on TV and reading your actions in the news for many years to come with the same passion and interest I have had sitting on this board. Ann Keller. And it's with great sadness that I see you go. You have been a JOY -- MS. KELLER: You know I will watch it. That's the sick part about it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've been ajoy on this board. So I just -- any way -- I mean, we'll give you a raise. But I do hate to lose you. Thank you for the six years. MR. JOSLIN: I have to utter the same comments, too-- MS. KELLER: I'm coming next month, too, so -- MR. JOSLIN: -- Ann, it's been a pleasure to have you here for sure. I hate to see you go. MS. KELLER: You can bring the cake and flowers next meeting, the farewell. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And Tom Bartoe is not with us because Tom is now gone. He's in Pennsylvania. Tom will be greatly missed. Page 44 April 16, 2008 MR. JOSLIN: I left a business card on his gate yesterday and reminded him of the meeting, so I can't imagine where he's at. I called him also, but I didn't get a response, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And Andy Werner (sic) also left, didn't he? MR. OSSORIO: Yes, he's since retired. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Andy retired as well. MR. NEALE: Wuhrer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you're looking at your staff. This is it. Not that this isn't good. But we do also have a vacancy, don't we, that we're going to fill? MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. MR. JOSLIN: Busy guy you are. MR. L YKOS: Michael, are you getting the support from Bob Dunn that he told us you were going to get? MR. OSSORIO: Yes. MR. L YKOS: Good. I'm very glad to hear that. MR. OSSORIO: Yes, he is. He's been a blessing and he fought for us and we did get one position. Obviously we're going to be down 25 percent. But that's something that we can take on the chin, and I think that hopefully that we just have to work smarter. So the next person you'll see is going to be someone that is going to be doing Tom's and Andy's work, and so that's why we're going to look at the applications and see where the chips fall, see how it goes. MR. JOSLIN: How did the idea go about using the inspectors? MR. OSSORIO: We are. That's something that's going to be long term. MR. JOSLIN: Long term. MR. OSSORIO: We're going to have to see where the inspectors are in the upcoming months about how many inspections they do. But I anticipate maybe the new person on board might be an inspector. I have no idea. So we're going to cross that bridge when it comes to it. Page 45 April 16, 2008 On other issues, I do want to let you know that I'm thinking about having a couple of workshops the next couple of months to get ready for our changing of the ordinance or updating the ordinance in 2010. I have some things in mind. I'd like Robert Zachary or Pat Neale to look into it. And I think the state's actually going to a -- any state contractor that wants to be state certified has to have a background check through FDLE. And I think if that's the case, I think that if they do that I think that we need a change in the ordinance that if you're going to be a Tier 1 contractor, registered, I think we're obligated to at least look into that and see if that's where we need to be. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you do that, you're going to have to raise the fees, though. MR. OSSORIO: Well, that would be something I know that-- that would be something that the fees would be on the applicant. We would -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right. MR. OSSORIO: -- they would have to contact FDLE. They would have to sign the forms and then we would get a copy of whatever the item would be. So is there a more expense other than just the expense of pulling a credit report and having it faxed to us and us looking at it? I don't know. Possibly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I had a background check done on me here about a year ago, and the costs, I think the state was paying close to three or $400. So it's a substantial expense. MR. JOSLIN: And you've not been in serious trouble before. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. Yeah, and my record's clean. So no, that was for child advocacy. They wait till people finish the course and graduate, and then you have to wait nine months for your background investigation. Because they're not going to do a background investigation until you complete the course so they don't Page 46 April 16, 2008 have to spend the money. But they're expensive. Something we may have to look at. MR. OSSORIO: Well, that's something you have to look at but, you know, you hate to go ahead and have the State of Florida have state certified contractors, especially the Tier 1 contractors, go through that process and then the county on a local level. We have all the testing requirements for Tier 1 contractors, and we do not (sic). So we have to make sure that we try to be in line with the state statutes as well. MR. JOSLIN: I have one other question. With the amount of people coming in here, like the case that we were supposed to hear today but didn't, with the amount of people that are coming in that have permit fees that are still due and outstanding, permits that are open, is this -- how many other people besides the applicant that was here today or the license holder that was here today? I mean, are there other -- are there a lot of them out there that we're going to be hearing that haven't answered the call? MR. OSSORIO: Well, unfortunately -- we had a meeting with Bob Dunn, and that is an important avenue for our office to look into, permit fee violations and building code violations. But our primary focus right now, since we're short-staffed, is life safety, building permit violations out in the field, workers compo issues for licensed companies out in the field, and unlicensed activity. That's where we focus and that's what we do best. So I don't foresee us seeing any more of these cases coming for a couple of weeks or a couple of months until we get some kind of staff level where we need to feel comfortable we can actually pick up -- we're not going to do something that is not 100 percent. We can do it at that particular time. I'm not going to call someone and forget about it. If we do a case, we're going to do it one by one. There's probably 100 of them, maybe 200. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I make a statement that you could Page 47 April 16, 2008 pass on? We've had the supervisor in charge of permitting, what was her name? MR. OSSORIO: Alamar Finnegan. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Alamar was here. These people that have permit fees that are due, the county is not putting any penalties on them. They're -- which they could. They're just asking for the money that was due years ago. If those people come before this board, I can pretty well say that they're not going to find any sympathy here. So it's in their best interest to take care of them. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They don't want to come before this board. MR. JOSLIN: I know there was conversation in the last meeting about some of these that had a lot of open permits and a lot of dollars, that they could work out a payment plan, even to pay of some of them a little bit at a time. But if they act on it, they (sic) probably could happen. But if they don't act on it, I'm sure that they're going to close that door too and they're going to end up coming here and maybe not having a license to work with. MR. OSSORIO: Well, I think the budgeting office is actually looking at a hopefully sentence of some collections too as well. But I do feel that there is an opportunity for licensing to get involved and to -- you know, we should verify these contractors are obligating, when they pull a building permit for these homeowners, to get them completed. And that's something that's a quagmire. We want to do it but then again we don't have the staff to do it. So let's wait until we do have the staff to do it but let's go to collection. So that's all going to be discussed. Also, it was brought up to our attention a couple months ago that you want to have a workshop. And I think that maybe if we don't have -- if it's not a heavy agenda next month, maybe we can talk about the Page 48 April 16, 2008 citation process. Because that's something we have to get a grasp on as well. We need to find out where we are with these citations and where we need to be. MR. NEALE: What I would propose, too, and just because of what is going on in the economy and what we've seen over the last several months, is that at the next meeting if we do a workshop is maybe Mr. Zachary and I will review the whole issue of financial responsibility and where it lies and the parameters for the board to judge it so that you can review that. That, and as well as the waiver requirements and what the board has to make a finding if they are going to waive a testing requirement. So maybe cover those two issues in some depth for the board so that everybody can be working off the same page when we're -- when a case like that comes in front of us. Because I think we all agree that there are going to be a lot of financial issue cases coming up over the next year. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Question on the one empty position we have and now the other position that will be empty as of next month. I'd like to do that meeting after we fill those two so that we can also address -- Mr. Lykos has caught on extremely quick, but sometimes I feel like we leave some people behind. It takes them months to catch up. MR. NEALE: Well, and that's -- you know, we had talked a couple months ago about doing an orientation kind of session where we go through how cases are heard, what the cases -- you know, what the charge to the board is, what the board's responsibility is, the powers of the board, the duties of the board, et cetera, as sort of an orientation for everybody. That might be prudent to do that after we get the two new members. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any leads on the one vacancy we have? MR. OSSORIO: Yes. I just finished the memorandum to Sue Page 49 April 16, 2008 Filson, and I believe the applicant goes in front of the BOCC next month. I'm thinking the 12th. I'm not sure. May 12th. MS. KELLER: I'm the City of Naples representative, so -- MR. OSSORIO: Yours is a little bit different. I have to coordinate that with Sue Filson over in the manager's office. And I believe we send a representative or I'll go down and talk to the city mayor and let them know that there is an opening so they can contact who they need to contact to fill those applications out. But it still has to be approved by the BOCC. They make recommendations, and then the board approves it, the Board of County Commissioners. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anything else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hear a motion to adjourn? MR. JOSLIN: So moved. MR. L YKOS: Second, Lykos. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good meeting. ***** Page 50 April 16, 2008 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:33 a.m. CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, Chairman These minutes approved by the board on presented or as corrected as Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Reporting Service, Inc., by Cherie'R. Nottingham. Page 51