BCC Minutes 03/18/2008 W (w/Fire Review Task Force)
March 18, 2008
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS/FIRE REVIEW
TASK FORCE WORKSHOP
Naples, Florida, March 18, 2008
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met in a WORKSHOP SESSION on this date at 9:00 AM, at the
Administrative Building "F", 3rd Floor Collier County Government Complex
Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
Chairman: Commissioner Tom Henning
Vice Chairman: Commissioner Donna Fiala
Commissioner Frank Halas
Commissioner Fred Coyle
Fire Review Task Force: Bradley Schiffer
William Varian
Gary Beaumont
James Boughton
Dalas Disney
William Schreck
Chuck McMahon
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, Collier County Manager
Joe Schmitt, Director, CDES
Paula Brethauer, Operations Analyst
JeffKlatzkow, Assistant County Attorney
Sue Filson, Executive Manager to the BCC
Bob Dunn, Interim Building Director
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AGENDA
March 18, 2008
9:00 a.m.
BCC- Fire Review Task Force Workshop
3'd Floor Boardroom
W. Harmon Turner Building
Tom Henning, Chairman, District 3
Donna Fiala, Vice-Chairman, District 1
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Fred W. Coyle, Commissioner, District 4
NOTICE: All PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING.
SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA
ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. All REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS Will RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES
UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2004-05, AS AMENDED, REQUIRES THAT All lOBBYISTS SHAll, BEFORE
ENGAGING IN ANY lOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND IF YOU
ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABiliTY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS
PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE.
PLEASE CONTACT THE COlliER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT lOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAil, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED liSTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING
IMPAIRED ARE AVAilABLE IN THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
1. Pledge of Allegiance
2. Opening Remarks/Presentation by the Task Force Chair
3. Task Force Report -- Findings and Recommendations
4. Public Comment
5. Adjourn
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD BE MADE TO THE COUNTY
MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 774-8383.
March 18,2008
1. Pledge of Allegiance
Chairman Henning called the Workshop to order at 9:01 AM and the Pledge of
Allegiance was recited.
2. Opening Remarks/Presentation by the Task Force Chairman
Brad Schiffer, Chairman ofthe Fire Review Task Force opened the Workshop
reviewing the original Resolution noting the Task Force met 14 times with
Representatives from the Fire Code Office, Fire Departments, CDES Staff and Public
present.
He provided a Report entitled "Board ofCounly Commissioners and Fire Review
Task Force, March 18, 2008 Workshop" for review by the participants.
3. Task Force Report - Findings and Recommendations
The participants viewed a Power Point Presentation summarizing the Section of the
Report entitled "Interim Report." The individual Topics covered in this Section were
addressed by the members of the Task Force.
Chairman Henning noted that the Report contained Topics with various issues
identified and recommendations provided at the end of some Topics. As the Task
Force conducted business, some issues were addressed through the Fire Code Office,
the Building Review and Permitting Department and/or Community Development
Environmental Services as outlined in the "Action" portion of the Topic. He further
noted that Public Speakers would be allowed to address each Topic as it is reviewed
by the Commissioners.
TOPIC 1 - Florida Building & Fire Codes - Brad Schiffer
TOPIC 2 - Early Work Starts & Phase Permits - Bill Schreck
TOPIC 3 - 61G15 Reviews - Jim Boughton
It was noted that if a Shop Drawing (a design drawing for a specialty permit for Fire
Alarm system, Sprinkler system, etc.) prepared by a Fire Alarm or Sprinkler
Contractor, etc. for Fire Code Office review contains any "material deviations" from
the original 61Gl5 drawing (a required submittal by the Florida Building Code)
submitted by the Engineer of Record earlier in the permit process, a revision to the
61 G 15 drawings are required. This creates a slow down in the review process.
Mr. McMahon arrived at 9:16AM
TOPIC 4 - Permit Process & Plan Review - Bill Varian & Design Professiouals
The following items were discussed in this Topic:
Bob Dunn, Interim Building Director noted that the Bar Code System is being
implemented and will be available soon. The Fire Code Office applications will be a
part of this tracking system.
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March 18, 2008
Chairman Henning noted that it is a positive step forward that Ed Riley, Fire Code
Official and Bob Dunn are working close together on resolving the issues raised
herein.
Joe Schmitt, CDES Director noted that the County is reviewing the concept
utilizing electronic submittals. There are several issues involved in this
transformation including costs of the implementation and the scope of how it would
be utilized for data storage and retrieval for all Departments involved.
Brad Schiffer, Chairman, Fire Review Task Force noted electronic submittals
would not only save time in the review process, but provide a cost savings to the
County in the long run in the area of employees and reviewers handling plans, plan
storage, reviewer retrieval ofpreviously issued permits during revision requests, etc.
These systems are in place in many areas throughout the Country.
Chairman Henning noted that at this point this recommendation requires more
investigation.
Mr. Beaumont arrived at 9:23AM
TOPIC 5 - Private Providers - Bill Schreck
TOPIC 6 - Revisions - Bill Varian
Jim Mudd, County Manager requested clarification from the Board of County
Commissioners whether or not to implement the Action item at the end of this topic
"Request that DSAC look at different types of issues and come forward with a
process for handling revisions."
Chairman Henning noted that any recommendations included in the Section
"Interim Report" are deemed acceptable unless the Board of County
Commissioners finds dijJerently.
TOPIC 7 - Inspections - Bill Varian
TOPIC 8 - Technology - Dalas Disney
TOPIC 9 - Fire Alarms & Monitoring - Gary Beaumont
Mr. Beaumont addressed this topic noting the process of obtaining fire alarm permits
is difficult noting that a year ago, only 17% of Fire Alarm permits are approved on
the first submittal, currently 35% are approved on the first submittal and outlined 4
recommendations in this Topic:
A. The Current fire alarm permit checklists should be re-vamped, should be a
guideline only, and not cause a rejection of the permit.
B. As the fire alarm "shop drawings" are contractor derived, the minor clerical
and riser/floor plan discrepancies should be "red line corrected" by the contractor
and other minor corrections are allowed with stipulations.
C. Change in monitoring company on existing fire alarm systems that do not
require new equipment should be a simple letter of said change.
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March 18, 2008
D. Revisions, minor replacement of fire alarm system components, systems less
than $1,000 and monitoring permits if required should be permitted using express
permitting forms to expedite these permits.
It was noted that most of the problems occur when there are "material deviations"
between the engineered 61G-15 drawing submittals to the Building Review and
Permitting Department and the subsequent shop drawing as previously noted in Topic
#3. The Task Force determined that the Fire Code Office has received legal direction
from the State of Florida and the Board of Engineers regarding this situation and is
enforcing the Statute as required.
It was noted that some of these issues are controlled by other jurisdictions (State of
Florida, etc.) and discussion ensued if the Board of County Commissioners should
address any necessary issues at these levels.
Ed Riley Fire Code Official addressed the Commissioners noting the following with
regard to the recommendations:
. The checklist was derived with input from the industry and the industry
supports the document
. The checklist continues to be revised as needed through Committees
such as the Fire Alarm Committee
. Some items required on the checklist are in lieu of information required
on plans for ease of review and processing
. He agreed that the 35% failure rate is unacceptable noting he authored
this statement
. The Fire Code Office continues to provide continuing education to
consultants and contractors to improve the quality of submittals
. Minor changes in monitoring systems require a permit and field
inspection as even the change of a phone number may cause the system
to become inoperable
. Monitoring systems in single family homes are exempt from permit
requirements
. They are reviewing the fee structure for monitoring systems. These fees
were developed by the Fire Code Office and adopted by the Board of
County Commissioners
Mr. Beaumont left the meeting at 10: 15PM
TOPIC 10 - Design Professionals - Brad Schiffer
TOPIC 11 - Interface with Fire Code Officials Office - Dalas Disney
TOPIC 12 _ Simultaneous Review & SDP Process - Jim Boughton
Break -10:30 AM
Re-convened -10:4I AM
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March 18, 2008
TOPIC 13 - Water Flow - Jim Boughton
A discussion ensued regarding the problem of water pressures within the area served
by the Naples City water system. The Commission noted that this issue needs to be
addressed by the City of Naples as the requirement of providing a minimum of20
pounds per square inch (psi) is not adequate for fire protection. It should be
considered to adjust the service boundaries and review the water service areas that are
in unincorporated Collier County and could be completed in incremental steps over a
period of time. Also, a discussion ensued regarding the feasibility manually
manipulating pressures in real time by tuming various valves off and on within the
system.
Jim Mudd, County Manager noted that the water pressures provided by the City of
Naples are an issue. He will address this topic at a meeting he has with the Naples
City Manager on Friday regarding water issues with the Government Center site.
Nick Biondo, East Naples Deputy Fire Chief stated that the Fire District has met
with the City of Naples on this issue numerous times and the problem is not just
isolated to high-rise buildings, but small one and two story structures in the Bayshore
area. There are areas where the infrastructure in place is inadequate for fire flows.
He further noted that real time adjustment of water pressure is an acceptable practice
when fire fighters are on the scene of a fire. It is not an acceptable practice for
structures equipped with automatic sprinkler systems.
It was noted that there are similar problems in some areas of the County where
Private Utilities provide the water service.
Ed Riley, Fire Code Official noted the problem is mostly isolated to the outlining
areas of the County noting there are two main design parameters for fire flows, 1) the
gallons per minute ofrequired flows and 2) the pressure (psi - pounds per square
inch) of these flows. Overall, the County Utility Department is doing an acceptable
job of meeting these requirements needed for the growth of the Community. They
are modeling for current and future demand.
He requested that the Fire District be provided the data on the gallon per minute
figure utilized for potential fire flows in the hydraulic model so the Fire District could
provide any possible input to the Utility Department on this figure. This could
possibly alleviate design problems in some areas of the County.
TOPIC 14 _ Sprinkler Requirements for Collier County Parking Garage - Brad
Schiffer
Brad Schiffer provided an overview of the issue with the construction of the County
Parking Garage noting that the gallons per minute fire flow requirements for these
structures is a high number when calculated using the various required formulas.
Ed Riley, Fire Code Official noted that the NFP A does not individually categorize a
parking garage for fire flow calculations. He did acknowledge that the fire flows
required are "high" (in this case approximately 6600 gallons per minute or "gpm").
The Fire Code Office allowed the construction of the parking garage utilizing a flow
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March 18, 2008
test result of2l67 gpm (approximately 1131 gpm below requirements) with the
utilization of a sprinkler system.
A discussion ensued on whether a study should be conducted to categorize an open
parking garage type constructed building and create Local Standards for these
structures and whether the gallons per minute requirement is excessive. Also, should
sprinklers even be required for these types of structures.
Jim Mudd, County Manager noted that these issues are linked to Topic 17 which
recommends that the local amendments be allowed to sunset or be repealed on
October 1, 2008.
Ed Riley noted the Code currently allows for performance base standards which
apply to buildings on a case by case basis. A Fire Protection Engineer could provide
calculations and design parameters that may reduce the gallons per minute
requirement of a structure.
Chairman Henning noted that some type ofresolution is required in this issue.
Mr. McMahon, Fire Review Task Force Member stated that a sprinkler system in
a parking garage is a favorable idea noting if an individual was on a level above the
fire, and the building did not utilize a sprinkler system, their life safety could be
jeopardized. He believes this has been documented in previous cases.
Chairman Henning requested that Mr. McMahon research these cases and provide
the documentation to the Board of County Commissioners.
Commissioner Coyle left the workshop at 11:25AM
TOPIC 15 - Fire Code Officials Areas of Concern - Chuck McMahou
Ed Riley, Fire Code Official addressed this topic
TOPIC 16 - Areas of Buildings - Brad Schiffer
TOPIC 17 _ Local Amendments to the Florida Fire Prevention Code - Brad
Schiffer
Jim Mudd, County Manager stated that prior to October 1, 2008, an Executive
Summary will be provided to the Board of County Commissioners to expire this
Ordinance (Local Amendments to the Florida Fire Prevention Code)
Ed Riley noted that the Board of County Commissioners will still have jurisdiction
over the 2 remaining MSTU Districts (Isle of Capri and Ochopee)
TOPIC 18 _ Collier County Board of County Commissioners - Brad Schiffer
4. Public Comment
Brenda Talbert Executive Officer of the Collier County Building Industry
addressed the participants thanking the CBIA members for their time on the
Committee. She noted the process was healthy and created some understanding,
cooperation and resolution to issues.
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March 18, 2008
Commissioner Halas thanked the Task Force Members for their time and the manner
in which the Task was completed.
Commissioner Fiala noted that the lines of open communication need to continue for
providing resolution to these types of issues for the residents of Collier County.
Chairman Henning noted that this one of the best workshops that has taken place
providing resolutions to the day to day issues affecting the citizens of Collier County.
In closing it was recognized that the Fire Review Task Force has completed its task
and sunsets in April, 2008.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the Workshop
concluded by order of the chair at 11 :51 A.M.
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
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DWIGHT KBRO(:K, CLERK
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These minutes approved by the Board/Committee on .11./)..:/ t') -"} 0N..Q as
presented V'" or as amended . ~
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