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CLB Minutes 03/19/2008 R March 19,2008 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida March 19,2008 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson Richard Joslin Lee Horn Michael Boyd Glenn Herriman Tom Lykos ALSO PRESENT: Patrick Neale, Attorney for the Contractor Licensing Board Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney Michael Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: WEDNESDAY - MARCH 19,2008 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: January 16, 2008 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Manoel Silva - Review of Credit Report. Sabba Tortu - Contesting Citation. Brian Giblin - Request to qualify a 2"d entity. Ramon Garrido - Review of Experience Affidavits. Daniel Sara - Request to qualify a 2"d entity. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case #2008-01 Paul L. Harmison D/B/A Bayshores Aluminum Construction, Inc. Case #2008-02 Douglas Harsanyi D/B/A CD Pool Systems, Inc. Case #2008-03 Robert Albertsen D/B/A Robert M. Albertsen, Inc. Case #2008-04 Michael F. Roberts D/B/A Gulfcoast Contracting, Inc. PAGE 2 - MARCH 19,2008 MEETING OF CLB IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY APRIL 16, 2008 W. HARMAN TURNER BUILDING, 3RD FLOOR (COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM) 3301 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL NAPLES, FL 34104 (COURTHOUSE COMPLEX) March 19, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, everybody. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing meeting for March 19th, 2008. I'd like to start off with roll call to my right. MR. HERRIMAN: Glenn Herriman. MR. L YKOS: Tom Lykos. MR. BLUM: Sid Blum. But due to circumstances beyond my control, I'm compelled to resign. So I wish you all the best. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, Sid. I appreciate it. Appreciate your help. MR. JOSLIN: Thanks, Sid. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That was too blunt. MR. HERRIMAN: Yeah, it's no speech, no nothing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sid, thank you for all you did. Appreciate it very much. Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We barely have a quorum. Mr. Neale, while I've got you here -- MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- if you would be looking up attendance regulations or whatever. This is two months in a row we almost didn't make it. MR. NEALE: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got to address that issue. MR. NEALE: I'll look in the county code and see what the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If! remember, two misses in a year is grounds for replacement. MR. NEALE: I think so. I'll check and see. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sid unfortunately had some personal issues that we had to deal with. But I wish him well. He served very Page 2 March 19,2008 well on this board. He was an asset to the board. I hate to see him go. I also need approval of the agenda. Mr. Bartoe? Short-timer Mr. Bartoe. MR. BARTOE: Good morning. For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance Officer. I have one deletion but it's not on your agenda. That's me. I'm retiring in nine days. And Mr. Ian Jackson will be taking over as a very capable liaison to the board. And I thank you for all the good times we had working together. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Bartoe, it was a pleasure. MR. JOSLIN: Thank you much for your service, Tom. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tom and I have been together 20 years. But have you gotten your checks? I haven't gotten mine. MR. BARTOE: No, the only one taking care of me is Social Security. MR. JOSLIN: I just have one bone to pick with you, and that's that 20 years ago, you're the one that got me on this board. So look out. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tom has been a great asset. We've gone through hurricanes, numerous hurricanes, including Andrew and a whole bunch of other stuff. So I wish you well. Hope you do -- have a good life. So who's taking your place as far as the agenda? Andy -- or no, I am. MR. JOSLIN: Is it Ian or Ian? MR. JACKSON: Ian. For the record, Ian Jackson, Contractor Licensing. Staff has one addition, and that would be David Hemed of Stormtech Shutters. And one deletion -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Under what category? Page 3 March 19,2008 MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What category? Where? MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry, under new business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JACKSON: At the end of new business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: David what? MR. JACKSON: Hemed. H-E-M-E-D. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And reason he's coming? MR. JACKSON: I believe it is to reinstate a license without testing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Reinstate? All right, sir. MR. JACKSON: And one deletion, please. Case No. 2008-04, Michael Roberts. (At which time, Michael Boyd enters the boardroom.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that it? MR. JACKSON: That is it. MR. OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing Supervisor. On the agenda I believe that we missed last month, but we can go right in order. I don't think we need to go ahead and skip around. We were going to try to do that this morning, but there was no urgency, so we can go right from the top right to the bottom, if you'd like. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And I had one more board member come in. Good morning. MR. BOYD: Morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let the record reflect that, if you would. I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have a second? MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman. Page 4 March 19, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Unanimous. Now, before we go any further, I want to go back here to our new member, again. Give us your name again? MR. L YKOS: I'm Tom Lykos. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tom Lykos. MR. L YKOS: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're a GC, aren't you? MR. L YKOS: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wow, it's ajoy to have you on the board. MR. L YKOS: Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here to serve. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long have you been here, Tom? MR. L YKOS: I've been in Collier County since 1992. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just came in with the storm? That was the year of Andrew. MR. L YKOS: That was the year of Andrew, that's correct. I got here a little bit before. Had I known, maybe I wouldn't have come. But no, I'd rather be here than anywhere else. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I appreciate your service. MR. L YKOS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If! guys want, if! can impose on you, these two chairs are empty. Could you come this way? MR. L YKOS: Sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It makes it a whole lot easier on our lady in the booth in back. Page 5 March 19,2008 Got a motion to approve the agenda as amended. Also need to, if you would, if you've had a chance, take a look at the minutes. I need a motion of -- now, these are the minutes of two months ago. So I need a motion to approve those. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion to approve the minutes from January 16th, 2008. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have a second? MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Passed. Discussion. There is none. New business. Let's get into it. Manoel Silva, are you present? Yes, sir, if you would, come up to this podium. I need for you to state your name and I'll have the court reporter swear you in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, sir. How are you? MR. SIL VA: Good morning. Pretty good, yourself? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are here because we need to look at your credit report. While we're doing that, tell us what happened. MR. SIL VA: I have probably two foreclosures and I do have a little bit of -- there is a credit card there with probably $30, I guess, or $20 delay on the payment. Page 6 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Was there a problem at one time or-- MR. SILVA: No, not a problem. I probably just took too long to pay it. And the credit card, it was no problem. It's already solved. And the houses, I tried to work it out with the bank. They do have something called a short sell, but they didn't want it. I guess the people that I find out to buy the house, they -- I guess the offer that they give wasn't enough for the bank. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Boy, we're going to run into a bunch of these. I think we had one so far. Do you remember what we did on it? Mr. Neale, do you remember? Because the banks are taking short sales. MR. NEALE: Yeah, that was a fairly broad one. I think it was a number of properties in that case. MR. JOSLIN: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, he had several. MR. NEALE: The board reviewed it and realized it wasn't related to his contracting business and wouldn't impact his contracting business, and I think they allowed it, if I remember correctly. Mike, is that true? MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. He was an investor and he was also a real estate agent. And he bought some property in Lehigh. And he had some issues with his credit. The board I believe issued a finding that he did not pose a threat to the citizens of Collier County, so they issued him a license. MR. JOSLIN: Wasn't it also a minor license, nothing that was a serious license? MR. OSSORIO: I think it was a painting license. MR. JOSLIN: Painting license? MR. NEALE: And I also believe that the board directed the contractor licensing staff -- he would bring back his credit report periodically to the staff as well. Page 7 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because basically I'm sitting here looking at your credit report. There are a couple of little issues, never would have caught our attention. It's the foreclosure on the two homes. I think most of Cape Coral's in foreclosure, aren't they? MR. SIL VA: Yeah. They both there. The bank didn't accept it for $6,000. They didn't accept the offer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 6,000? This is a house? MR. SIL VA: The house, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll give you 6,000 sight unseen. How's the board feel? I'm looking at it and it's not a really business related. He already has a business in Cape Coral, and he's wanting to expand into Collier County. MR. HERRIMAN: There's just that one small credit card debt. The rest of it is pretty good, though. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We talked about this last time, because we are going to see some of these. And basically it's people that got into real estate investing that should have stayed in the business they were good at. But those lessons are learned hard. MR. SIL VA: They sure are. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. What we've -- what we did last time it is we went ahead and approved it if it wasn't business related. But we were reviewing it and making it -- requiring the individual to supply a credit report to staff every -- was it every six months, Mike? MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. MR. JOSLIN: Two six-month period. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that's at your expense. MR. SIL VA: I'll do that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. The other thing that I've noticed on another situation, too, is there -- when we go to the three major credit reporting agencies, they all pretty much say the same thing. Whereas, if we go to a local credit reporting agency, we get what they have plus more of a local flare. Do you have one that you prefer more Page 8 March 19,2008 than another? MR. OSSORIO: Well, you should -- funny you should ask that question. It's one of the things that you and the board, we were going to go over in our workshop next month. We were going to go over the credit report. Because there are some credit reports better than others. In particularly, you can go to the web page and pull up your credit report for free of charge. It's like 40 pages long. And with that you get nothing. So we were going to narrow it down to a specific number of what you like and what I like to look at and we're going to come to a conclusion. So with that said, we are going to work on that next month. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because there's two credit reports in this file I wouldn't give you a nickel for. MR. JOSLIN: Really. Half of them -- MR. OSSORIO: I'm sure he paid more than a nickel for it, but you're absolutely right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. We need to address it. Okay. Anybody want to make a motion or have -- MR. JOSLIN: I make a motion that we approve Manoel Silva's license, based on the review of his credit report, and that he provide a history of his credit report for a one-year period. It will be every six months at his expense. And that is to be given to staff at the six-month interim. MR. SILVA: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have a second? MR. HERRIMAN: I'll second that. Herriman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. Page 9 March 19, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, you got it. But every six months you've got to get a credit report to his office. Now, for you and everyone else that's in here, all of your paperwork is in this room today. Don't go back over to contractor licensing to try to do anything today. Has to be done tomorrow, okay? Then you can -- MR. SILVA: All right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wish you well. MR. SIL VA: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sabba Tortu. I hope I didn't butcher that too bad. If I could have you state your name and then I'll have you sworn lll. MR. TORTU: Sabba Tortu. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got a citation, you're not happy, we're all ears. MR. TORTU: Yeah, I got a citation for working as a licensed contractor, I guess is what it was. I was helping out a friend. He sent a letter stating that. I don't work for anybody else. I don't have a business truck or anything of that nature. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do me a favor. Raise that mic up a little bit. And stand a little closer. Because we're not hearing you. MR. TORTU: And I was just helping him put a small roof on a little -- he has a swing next to his pond, and I was helping him and I got a ticket. I just think it was misunderstood what was going on there. Page 10 March 19,2008 And that's pretty much it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who wrote the citation? I can't see it. MR. TORTU: I don't know. MR. OSSORIO: It's Allen Kennette. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Allen, you want to come up to the podium. Allen, if you would, tell us what happened. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. KENNETTE: My name is Allen Kennette. I work for Contractor Licensing; I'm a Field Investigator. On this date I observed Mr. Tortu installing some metal roofing on top of an outdoor swing set by the canal for a resident. Stopped to see what he was actually doing. We weren't sure what type of work he was doing. I was with the city inspector, Tom Marinino, from the city. As we were talking to Mr. Tortu, the homeowner was there, asked him what was happening and he said that he had hired a handyman to install the roofing for him. Checking on the name, it showed that he had no type of license whatsoever, not even a handyman license. The homeowner said he was paying him to install the roof and that -- he wouldn't tell me how much, but that he was going to pay him to install the roof and he thought he was a handyman and wouldn't use him for any other work. MR. TORTU: Yeah, he's a friend of mine. He does pay me. He does give me money. Not every time I'm there, but he does give me money. It's not -- I don't give him a bill. I mean, it states that in the letter. I don't bill him. I'm not a business, I don't have business cards or anything like that. He's the only person I help besides my wife's father. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have a handyman license? MR. TORTU: To do that, to help people? No. I didn't know I needed one to help somebody. My father-in-law -- Page 11 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I asked you a question. MR. TORTU: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I said do you have a handyman's license? MR. TORTU: No, I do not. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. Anyone else have any discussion? MR. KENNETTE: May I interject? He also told me that he's been doing handyman work in this area for about 20 years. MR. TORTU: No, that is not true. I haven't lived in this area -- I said I worked during Hurricane Andrew. I used to work on the east coast, but since I moved here -- my mother got in a car accident three and a half years ago and she's a quadrap1egic. I live with her and I work at night. And that's -- I work for Collier County Beverage. That's what I do, I have -- you know. I don't know what else to tell you people. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Kennette, 1-- MR. TORTU: If you'd like to read the letter, I have the letter if anyone would like to -- care to read it. MR. JOSLIN: I'm not interested in the letter. MR. TORTU: Right. MR. JOSLIN: I have a feeling that Mr. Kennette, you did the right thing. It sounds like the man is working on -- as a handyman out in the field. He's probably done more than just that particular job. Whether a homeowner writes a letter or not, it's still under the ordinance of Collier County to have a license to do the work he was doing, and caught physically by you. So -- MR. TORTU: Well, you didn't need a permit to do it. They thought I needed a permit. That's why they came, because they said, oh, you need a permit. The next day -- it also states in the letter that they called Walt Page 12 March 19,2008 Kilgore, the owner of the house, and said to him that they did not need a permit. And that's why I thought I got a ticket, because it was a job that you needed a permit for. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're not talking about a permit. MR. TORTU: Well, I don't understand what you're talking about. MR. JOSLIN: We're talking about working in Collier County without a proper license. MR. TORTU: But I don't work for people doing this. He's a friend on mine, I helped him out. He hurt his arm. He just got out of the hospital. He was going away. He couldn't do the stuff himself. MR. JOSLIN: I understand what you're saying. MR. TORTU: And it's not like I even used my tools. I used his tools. I didn't even have a cordless drill that day. MR. JOSLIN: What we're faced with here is that if you can understand this: Ifwe were to allow every friend ofa friend to come in and work for someone as a friend and not give them a bill but the man pays them, do you know how many people -- MR. TORTU: He doesn't pay me every time. MR. JOSLIN: Do you understand how many people in this county would be having all our friends? We wouldn't need -- MR. TORTU: What about when he invites me over for like Thanksgiving -- MR. JOSLIN: Excuse me. MR. TORTU: -- and birthdays and things of that nature? MR. JOSLIN: Excuse me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're not going to -- MR. JOSLIN: We're not going to argue this. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead and finish. MR. TORTU: All right, don't argue. So what do I have to do now? Because this is very -- it's disgusting, really, that I'm helping people out and -- you know, when I Page 13 March 19,2008 help my father-in-law I don't get paid at all. Do I still need a license for that? MR. JOSLIN: Yes. MR. TORTU: I do? MR. JOSLIN: Yes. MR. TORTU: Wow. This is some town. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I move the citation stand. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. TORTU: So now what? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pay it. MR. TORTU: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Bye. Brian Giblin? You were the guys we were trying to do last month. MR. GIBLIN: Yes, we were. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Glad we got it done this month. Brian, I need for you, if you would, state your name, I'll have you sworn lll. MR. GIBLIN: Brian Giblin. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're here to request qualifying a second entity? MR. GIBLIN: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell us what, where, why and how. MR. GIBLIN: It would be with Dan Linehan. I hope he's going Page 14 March 19,2008 to be my new partner. I've had a painting business in Collier County for give or take 20 years. I think Dan's going to bring a level of expertise and some energy to revitalize my business and hopefully to create a new business that will be profitable for both of us. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you presently qua1ify-- MR. GIBLIN: Giblin Painting is my current business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Giblin Painting. And you want to qualify -- I'm not going to pronounce that. MR. GIBLIN: Capomaestro. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Capomaestro, okay. Capomaestro Painting. MR. GIBLIN: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And this is your new partner. MR. GIBLIN: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who will probably get a license once you get started, won't he? MR. LINEHAN : Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Smart. MR. LINEHAN: Actually, I can't get a license-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can't -- if you want to say something, I need for you to come up here. You can come up here. I'll have to swear you lll. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: State your name. MR. LINEHAN: Dan Linehan. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. LINEHAN: I've got to get two years of painting experience before I can get the license. But I've got a general contractor's license, which I took the state test for out of North Carolina. I had the highest state license. And in South Carolina. So I'm a general contractor. But to do painting, I've still got to get my two years per Collier County, which is understandable. I've got to get my time. Page 15 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: North Carolina has a now for GC's? MR. LINEHAN: Actually, it was a pretty serious test, yeah, all joking aside. It was a pretty aggressive test involved, and a lot of people don't pass it. And the license I carried was an unlimited license, so I could have built a skyscraper, a tunnel, a bridge. And I spent a lot of time in New York doing stuff, highrise work and whatnot. But yes, North Carolina does have a license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm glad to hear that, because I have a GC license out of Tennessee that cost me $50. So, I mean, a lot of states don't do testing. Florida's one of the few. I'm glad North Carolina finally has. But you're licensed. And the people you want to go with is Gainesville Testing. I probably shouldn't have said that. I didn't, did I? But they give the test every day. I mean, and for you guys to have two licenses, do you know how smart that is? MR. LINEHAN: Sure. Yeah. I think, though, I got to get the two years experience required by you guys. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right. Yeah, because when you fill those out, they call. A lot of people turn those in and don't realize that we have a staff that calls the people they recommended, or who supposedly filled those recommendations out. It's ironic, sometimes they don't know what we're talking about. Anybody see anything with credit or anything? MR. JOSLIN: No. The only line item that I see on here is I suppose if we do give this man a license, that they won't be spending so much time at Jammer's. MR. GIBLIN: Good to see you, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Jammer's might appreciate the advertisement. MR. JOSLIN: Well, Hooters, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have motorcycles, right? MR. GIBLIN: Yes, I do. Page 16 March 19,2008 MR. JOSLIN: And Rhino? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just to remind the board members, when we get statements like we have, if you would, set them up here on the counter so the county can destroy them after the meeting. MR. JOSLIN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We don't carry these out of this room. I don't see anything wrong here. I'll make a motion to approve. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second. MR. L YKOS: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second, okay. MR. JOSLIN: No, I'll retract my second. Go ahead. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you second? MR. LYKOS: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it. MR. GIBLIN: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you well. But you heard what I said about records being here. MR. GIBLIN: Yes, sir. MR. LINEHAN: And if I may, going through the application process I dealt with an outstanding civil servant, Maggie Wright. She's part of the board down there. Boy, she just had her stuff together, she was very great to communicate with, and it was a pleasure. It was a very stress-free process. And normally something like this can be an arduous task. So she just really made it as easy and convenient as could possibly be. She was a pleasure to deal with. Thank you. Page 17 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you don't ever want to cross Maggie either. MR. JOSLIN: Thank you also for your patience. This has taken some time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry we couldn't do it last month. Daniel Saro, if you'd come forward, sir. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, on this particular item there is a speaker that wants to be heard, David Goodenough. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. If you would, state your name, I'll have you sworn in. MR. SARO: Daniel Saro. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, I apologize, it's not the person who's going to be speaking on his behalf. It would be something else. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're not going to let him talk anyway. I'm just kidding. Go ahead, tell us your -- review your experience? No, qualifying a second entity, I'm sorry. MR. SARO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, tell us what you're doing. MR. SARO: I own two companies already. I have Royal Floor Covering, which is -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need for you to talk louder. MR. SARO: Which is a tile marble. And then I have Magic Floor Covering, which is a wood floor and floor laying company. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got about half of that. Eat that mic., if you have to. MR. SARO: All right. I have Royal Floor Covering, which is a tile and marble company. And I have a small wood laying company, which is called Magic Floor Company. Magic Floor Finishing. Page 18 March 19, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why are you opening the second business? MR. SARO: I have a couple friends which have great contacts for new businesses. And we're trying to get some -- it's getting slow right now. And these friends with the contacts would like to get some more business with them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you know these friends can bring you down. MR. SARO: Of course. That's the risk of business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can't hear you. You don't talk this soft when you're at the job. MR. SARO: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, talk louder. MR. SARO: All right. I never been in front of the board, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. SARO: It's the risk of business, I think. You know, everything can work out and may not. But I think it's -- you know, business we would like to provide the best service. And -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you realize if this business doesn't work and your license gets in trouble, it will take down the other company as well. MR. SARO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're fully aware of that? MR. SARO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Some people don't understand that. We want to make sure you're clear on that. MR. SARO: Yes, I understand that. MR. L YKOS: Do you have one business now or two businesses? MR. SARO: Two. MR. L YKOS: So this would be a third business for you. MR. SARO: Yes. MR. L YKOS: Do you qualify the other two businesses as well? Page 19 March 19,2008 MR. SARO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I just found out, Mr. Neale, yesterday, you can qualify as many as you want. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. Used to be you could only have two years ago -- MR. L YKOS: That's what I thought. MR. JOSLIN: Years ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It was two up unti11ast summer. And last summer state statute changed and I didn't catch the change. MR. NEALE: Yeah, 489 changed so you can -- it used to be a maximum of two. Now it's-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Your mic's not good. MR. NEALE: It used to be a maximum of two and now it's -- by state statute it's an unlimited number. I think that was put in by some ofthe larger developers, you know, who -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Someone just turned your mic on. MR. NEALE: It was put in by some of the larger developers who, you know, where they have multiple operations and they want to have one qualifier. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So when they go down, they can go down in a bigger flare, right? Really a smart move. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, this gentleman might qual -- he might own several companies, but this particular company only qualifies one. You don't qualify two under your license. You might have another company in Fort Myers or somewhere else, but you qualify under our certificate only one company. And you want to qualify under your certificate two under your certificate; am I correct? You have never been before the licensing board before, have you not? MR. SARO: No. Because both of those licenses are for different stuff. So one company's for the wood laying, and the other one is for the marble, which I passed the test and everything. Page 20 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Different licenses. MR. SARO: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: He qualifies two different companies, two different licenses, two different exams. And he wants to qualify another company with one exam. So he only wants to qualify two companies under his certificate number we're talking about today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But if we had someone coming in doing their seventh or eighth, we now have to do it. We can't deny it. We can't limit it to two. MR. JOSLIN: How does staff feel about this? Any complaints on the other companies? MR. OSSORIO: No complaints. MR. JOSLIN: No complaints. MR. HERRIMAN: Well, he does have some great recommendations from the air conditioning people in the community. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's not good enough, is it? I play golf with him occasionally, that's why I'm teasing him. MR. JOSLIN: I don't see anything derogatory, that derogatory that would deny this license, so I'll make a motion to approve. MR. L YKOS: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it. Wish you well. Page 21 March 19,2008 MR. SARO: Thank you very much. MR. JOSLIN: Better talk louder to your customers, though. MR. SARO: All right, I will. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, now I find out they got the mic. in. Thank you. These side mics weren't turned on. MR. SARO: Thank you very much. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, is there any particular reason why you're going out of order, or just -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, I just messed up. MR. OSSORIO: Okay. I think you might have screwed up Mr. Harmon so-- , CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's okay. MR. NEALE: Just one point for the board is that-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. NEALE: And Mr. Zachary and I are going to look into it this. The Collier County ordinance still says that you may qualify no more than two. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can we be more restrictive than state? MR. NEALE: We'll take a look at it. We probably can, but we're going to take a look at that between now and the next board meeting. MR. JOSLIN: So did we just do something wrong? MR. NEALE: No, because he's still only qualifying two under this license. MR. JOSLIN: Under this license, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the counties can be more restrictive. We have that privilege. MR. JOSLIN: I'm pretty sure, yeah. MR. NEALE: In most areas, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. I don't like --I'm hearing that the state now is getting individuals with numbers up in the teens and higher qualifying companies. That's outrageous. Ramon Garrido. Sorry I passed you by. If you would, state your name Page 22 March 19,2008 and I'll have you sworn in. MR. GARRIDO: My name is Ramon Garrido. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And one of your Experians came back. I'm going to turn first to the county. Which one are we looking at? I assume that's what happened. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, let me just give you a little history about Ramon. I was ready to approve his license. I read over the ordinance and I applied it to his application. And one of the things that caught my eye that particular day was is that he had glowing recommendations from Dixie Plumbing from technicians, but I didn't have one from the qualifier of the company or someone that is in charge of the company. And so I took the initiative and I called Dixie Plumbing and I talked to David Goodenough, and he explained to me that -- some disturbing things about Ramon, that he was fired or whatnot or there was some investigations through the Sheriffs Office for some unlicensed activity. At that particular time I contacted Ramon and I advised him that there were some issues about his character or his good character reference or his good character as a whole. He came in. I told him what I wanted. I wanted a letter from Dixie Plumbing saying how long he's worked for the company. And he said -- he assured me that it was a misunderstanding, he would take care of the issue. He came back with another affidavit, but not from Dixie Plumbing. I advised him again that I would need something from Dixie Plumbing saying that yes, you know, these allegations are not really true. Maybe Mr. Dave Goodenough is mistaken. I called to Dixie Plumbing again and they advised me that they will provide me the information I needed to go ahead and issue him a citation for unlicensed activity. Page 23 March 19,2008 At that time I did receive the information. I turned the information over to the investigator, Ian Jackson. Ian Jackson reviewed it, found out that it was sufficient, called Mr. Ramon in and issued a civil penalty for $300 for working without a license and issued a civil penalty of $300 for no building permit under the code. All two citations were paid. But there is lingering information about why did -- he did not come forward in the beginning and -- when I discussed it in the beginning, why did he elude to the information that I requested. And two, if there is possibly a criminal investigation, I believe that the board should at least hear testimony to the fact before we issue him a license to be able to do air conditioning work in Collier County, City of Naples, Marco Island. And that's where we are today. MR. JOSLIN: This criminal investigation is underway now? MR. OSSORIO: I can't speak to the fact. I don't talk to the economics crime unit on a daily basis. But the person who made the complaint maybe can shed some light on to that fact. MR. JOSLIN: Is that person here? MR. OSSORIO: Yes, he is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you want to comment first? You're the one that came forward first. Do you want to comment first? MR. GARRIDO: Here? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. GARRIDO: No, this is my first time here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pardon me? MR. GARRIDO: This is my first time here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I said do you want to comment on what was just said? MR. GARRIDO: I don't understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You don't understand. MR. L YKOS: Do you want to tell us your side of the story? MR. GARRIDO: The story? Page 24 March 19, 2008 MR. L YKOS: About why you're here. MR. GARRIDO: I'm here for the -- my license, approve a license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you understand what was just said? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah, I understand what he say to Dave. But not the job in December. I approve of my license for no have a license in the paper. I have a the job in December for -- I think for I approve of. He say maybe I am working. THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I'm not understanding him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go slower and say -- she's trying to write down what you're saying. MR. GARRIDO: Okay. In December, December 2, I approval the test and everything to my Collier County license in AC. In December 18, I'm working -- have the job in -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are working or-- MR. GARRIDO: I working in December 18. And I working in start air condition unit, fixing the duct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Fixing the duck? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Fixing the duck? MR. JOSLIN: The duct. MR. GARRIDO: The duct, air. I know my license is approval. I know my license is approval for iron box that -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say that -- I don't -- you know your license is what? MR. JOSLIN: Approved. MR. GARRIDO: My license is approve under the Collier County for I passed the test on everything. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You passed the test? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah. I passed the test in December, too. Page 25 March 19,2008 Every papers in the office in Collier County -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You had submitted all your papers? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah. And he said maybe (inaudible) for working in between my -- THE COURT REPORTER: I don't understand him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What was that word? MR. GARRIDO: I'm sorry. I understand the papers is in the Collier County. And working between the time that my license is approval. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you were thinking you could work during that time while your license was being approved. MR. GARRIDO: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which you knew better. You did take the test? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Take the business and law test? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah, everything. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then you learned in the business and law test that that was not correct, okay? If you just took the test, you knew better. If you got old like me, you might have forgotten, but that's all taught in the test. Go ahead. MR. GARRIDO: For need to work, you know. I need a working. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you knew your license had not been approved. MR. GARRIDO: My license is approval for the paper. It's in the office of Collier County for -- I understand everything is approved and my papers is in Collier County, maybe. I am working for my name. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I understand. You thought you could work, which I know you knew you couldn't. MR. JOSLIN: Apparently you passed the test. Results, you got the pas -- your test results were all passed. You submitted the packet Page 26 March 19, 2008 to Mr. Ossorio -- MR. GARRIDO: Yeah, the packet-- MR. JOSLIN: -- and the investigation of that packet found out that you -- your experience requirements weren't correct. That's what Mr. Ossorio's brought you here for, questioning the fact of Dixie Plumbing. MR. OSSORIO: There's two issues, I want to backtrack, is that I believe he is more than qualified to conduct business. He's passed the exam. And as Mr. Herriman said, he has glowing reviews. The problem I have is that how this started was is that I guess he did some work for some homeowner and the homeowner had some issues. And the insurance company was called in because there was an issue pertaining to the installation of the job. The insurance company notified Dixie Plumbing and Air due to the fact that it was in the invoice of Dixie Plumbing and Air, it wasn't under invoice of this gentleman we're talking about today. This was in an invoice of Dixie Plumbing and Air. And this is -- and it was paid to him directly. Dixie went through their paperwork and found out that indeed that we never did this job and this is why we're here today. And I believe Mr. Goodenough can maybe elaborate on that, if I misspoke. I'm not sure. The reason why we're here is that I asked him from the very beginning an issue, I said -- I talked to Dave Goodenough and he explain this, this and this to me, and this gentleman said no, that is not correct. And then I found out it was correct, and we issued him a civil citation and it was paid. That goes to his character, not to his reference of his being able to conduct business. It goes to his character and the ability to go ahead and provide service to the community as we expect in Collier County. With that said is that there is -- there could be possibly investigation under criminal for working without a license and Page 27 March 19, 2008 defrauding the public. And I don't know if this board wants to issue him a license for something that we're under investigation possibly with the economics crime units. With that said, we've issued many licenses to people that we issue tickets to, because we want them to come into compliance. But we also want them to be truthful as well. MR. JOSLIN: Sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: David, come up to this podium, if you would. I need for you, if you would, state your name, I'll have you sworn lll. MR. GOODENOUGH: My name is David Goodenough. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me make this a little easier on you. While this man was under your employment, did he do work on the side and use your invoices to bill it and then receive the checks made out to Dixie Plumbing, or Dixie Air Conditioning and cash the money? MR. GOODENOUGH: He was not working for me at all at the time. He hasn't been working for me for a long, long time. But apparently we brought him, trained him to do maintenance, started teaching him to do some service work. He wound up leaving us for whatever reason. This -- a few months ago we got a letter from an insurance company saying that one of our customers that we installed an air conditioner for had a problem and damage to the home and we should report this to our insurance company. So we looked at our records and we say, we have no record of this customer. So we asked this insurance company to send us an invoice, something, because maybe our records are lost. And they sent us this invoice that's an old Dixie Plumbing and Air maintenance invoice, never used for installing air conditioners, and it has on there the lady's Page 28 March 19,2008 name he did the work for, paid $5,000 cash, okay, had a different name than Ramon Garrido on there as the technician. So he falsified his name. But fortunately on the invoice we found the make and serial number of the air conditioner. We traced it back, it was bought from Johnstone. We found records from Johnstone it was purchased by Ramon Garrido, okay. So we provided information. Took us a little bit oftime to provide information to the insurance companies so they knew that we were not responsible for this. I then contacted the Sheriffs Department, filed a complaint with them, showing them what was going on. The Sheriffs deputy, I forget her name. My records -- we just moved so my records are lost or I would have brought them. She actually called the number on that invoice, Ramon answered and she said, is this Dixie Plumbing and he said yes. So, you know, we can go from there, but-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've been down this road. I had someone take out a Yellow Page add in Orlando using my corporate name and my license, and accept checks. And these check cashing places will cash a corporate check with no hesitation whatever. MR. GOODENOUGH: Well, this was cash. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know exactly -- oh, they'll do checks too. MR. GOODENOUGH: Yeah. And the other thing was is that on the invoice we got from Johnstone, the equipment was purchased under a company name that is a d/b/a, but it's not registered in the State of Florida. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a good warning to all contractors to keep your ears open. And periodically pull your credit reports. Because my credit report from my company was showing activity in Orlando. Which I used to have an office there but I closed it in '93. So Page 29 March 19,2008 it's crazy what people will do. MR. GOODENOUGH: So that's my story. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have a comment? MR. GARRIDO: Okay. The day they calling, he say you working for Dixie, I say I am working for Dixie a long time. No he said I working for Dixie right now, my company he say is Dixie. I thought he say my company is Fox (phonetic) Air Conditioning, my name is Ramon. The invoice is the confused for the -- my invoice is saying the invoice the agreement, the last invoice, the Dixie. And the invoice no is say my name. The invoice is say Carlos. The Carlos is the guy that working for me in this house, that helping me in this house this day. And the unit for Johnstone, the unit for Coastline. MR. GOODENOUGH: Whichever. MR. GARRIDO: I never say yeah, 1-- MR. GOODENOUGH: You used a Dixie Plumbing and Air invoice for this job. You were not working for Dixie Plumbing and Air. You hadn't worked for us for years. MR. GARRIDO: I know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So here's what's going to happen with your license. I don't even have a motion yet, but I can tell you where this board will go. You're going to have to clear this matter up. It's going to have to be all taken care of. And then with someone who can speak that we can understand, you're going to have to come back before this board and try a second time. Because I move that this application be denied. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second that right now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. Page 30 March 19,2008 MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's where you stand. You understand? MR. GARRIDO: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You clear this up, come back with someone who can speak, and we'll look at it in the future, maybe. MR. JOSLIN: Also, one other thing before you go. Don't let anyone now catch you working or doing any kind of work without a license. If it happens again, you won't get a license at all. Make sure it's taken care of right away. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Isn't it right now third time is a felony? MR. JOSLIN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When it's during the emergency, which after the hurricane, first time is a felony. Now that the emergency is gone, if they get three of these, it's a felony. Be careful. Thank you. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, that's just for working without a license. But if you actually take funds -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, fraud, yeah. MR. OSSORIO: -- that's different. So you're looking at two or three different charges. Working without a license is a misdemeanor, you're absolutely correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: David, thank you for coming in. We wish you well. MR. GOODENOUGH: All right. I think I'll wait a little. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You better wait a little while. MR. JOSLIN: How come? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You guys wouldn't believe how much this is going on. Page 31 March 19,2008 MR. JOSLIN: Oh, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Especially over in Dade and Broward County, too. You've got to periodically go in and check on your license, too. Just keep your eyes open. MR. JOSLIN: Before we go, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to see if we can add one other item to the later part of the agenda that I forgot about, under maybe old business. I think this is relatively crucial to licensing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What? MR. JOSLIN: This is the resolution that the board agreed to do. Resolution No. 2007, number one. It's a Contractor Licensing Board, setting forth its position on fees, charges for certain contractor licensing services and providing guidance and advice to the Board of Collier County Commissioners, as required by 90-105, as amended. I forget now, it's been maybe a month, maybe two months, maybe three months since we had a little workshop meeting here and we agreed to add additional fees, to upgrade the fees for the amounts that were charged for different things while contracting, the licenses, reapplications, reinstatements. There was a lot of items that were added to it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you want to do that at the end? MR. JOSLIN: We can. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, we'll do that. David Hemed? If you would, sir, come to this podium, state your name. I'll have Cherie' swear you in. MR. HEMED: My name's David Hemed. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, sir. MR. HEMED: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Here to request a second entity. Tell us what you're doing. MR. HEMED: Actually, it's not a second entity, it's a Page 32 March 19,2008 reinstatement. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm sorry, that was the last guy. Reinstate without testing. That's twice. Three times I'm gone, right? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, I just want to give you a quick overvIew. This is something that the board looked at before. This particular company, we've issued a license years ago when Robert Nonnenmacher was here. We had one license and it was aluminum, and shutters were included. We decided to split the license into aluminum and shutters. We issued a license to any particular person that had the aluminum license for 12 months that could get two licenses, so this gentleman came in and got another license. So therefore, his company had aluminum license and a shutter license. Unfortunately this gentleman and this company, we sent a five-by-seven card out to his address and we sent two cards out, one for shutters, one for aluminum. He only re-did his aluminum license. He either -- I'm not going to speak for the mail system or speak for my staff, but under the ordinance we send out renewing notices. He renewed his certificate for aluminum. Unfortunately that he is not really conducting business for shutters, so therefore it was never caught after 13 months. And the code is pretty explicit about what happens in 13 months, you know, you go from being delinquent to being suspended to being null and void. If you haven't taken the exam within three years, then you would have to retest. And this gentleman is here today, it is unfortunate that he is in the limbo area that it's been over three years since he took the exam. But then again, he never took the exam for shutters. But we issued him a certificate for shutters due to the fact that in the code it specifies to do so. And he didn't review his certificate, that certificate, but he did renew his aluminum. So he's here today to go ahead and waive the aluminum testing so Page 33 March 19,2008 then he can resubmit for permits for shutters. Which I believe he does in Fort Myers and Lee County and other counties. He is a shutter company. I believe his business is called Stormtech Shutters. MR. HEMED: That's correct. MR. OSSORIO: So that's what (sic) he's here today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long have you done shutters? MR. HEMED: We have done shutters -- actually, I'm second generation aluminum contractor. I've done shutters for my father here locally in Lee County since the Nineties. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is Collier County. MR. HEMED: This is Collier County. Back then there was no actua11icensed category, I believe, when I was very young. I held a license here for Custom-Built Screen Enclosures since 1997. In 2001 we began Stormtech Shutters, and at that point I needed to apply for licensing a second company, a second entity. I was approved for that. We have done shutters up until, well, probably about a year and a half ago in Collier County. We just haven't had enough work here in Collier in the last like 13 to 16 months to have anything that required a permit. And for some reason I don't know why, I had -- we had sold the other company, the one that basically did aluminum structures in 2003. So the license category had changed, just like Mr. Ossorio said, where it went from aluminum specialty structures to hurricane shutters and then you had the other category for aluminum structures. For some reason, and I don't know why, I -- had I received the renewal, I certainly would have renewed it. I understand that the responsibility is on the contractor to do that. But, you know, I hold licenses in multiple municipalities. And when I renewed the Collier certificate, I had made the incorrect assumption that that was for the hurricane shutters because I no longer do the specialty structures, pool Page 34 March 19,2008 enclosures. And so it's one of those things that just slipped through the cracks. Apparently -- we had started advertising recently a little more heavily in Collier, because work has been a little bit slower. And in -- I'm not sure if it was through submitting the permit that it was found that the -- that the hurricane shutter license category had expired, while the aluminum structure one was still active. I generally renew all the certificates personally, so I really don't -- had I had one, I would have certainly renewed it. That doesn't excuse the fact that it is expired. But I'm here to ask you gentleman if you would allow the license to be reinstated, as there is no provisions, from what I understand, for reinstating it, other than requesting the board to do that. MR. JOSLIN: So the license that you have now in the other municipalities, they're still active and you -- MR. HEMED: They're all still active. I have my license book with all the current years, as well as all the previous years. Certificates from -- we do work from Hendry, Charlotte, Punta Gorda, Lee County. We don't work City of Naples. Marco Island, Lee County, Cape Coral. I have all those licenses. They're all intact and in good standing. I have no licensing complaints nor have I ever had any license complaints ever holding any of my licenses. As far as continuing education, I've always been right on time with keeping my education up to par. I've also, since I obtained this license to license this company, I have obtained a state certified general contractor's license, which I don't use for this company or anything at all other than keeping it in good standing as well. Just to help, you know, keep my education up to snuff. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have a GC license? MR. HEMED: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Category 1, right? Page 35 March 19,2008 MR. HEMED: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: You are aware that September 30th is coming, right? You know what that means? Time to renew your license again, okay. MR. HEMED: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Ossorio, if you would, is the license that we're going to issue him today, is this going to be aluminum contractor license or a shutter license? MR. OSSORIO: Just a shutter. All you're going to be doing today is waiving the testing requirements for the hurricane. He's taken the business procedure. All you're doing is just reaffirming that he is in the category in other counties. He's kept his jurisdiction up. And you heard testimony to the fact that he is still in the business. So I believe -- I think it's in good standing. And I think it's been the policy of the board in the past to go ahead and do what we're going to hopefully do today is reinstate his hurricane license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have a motion? MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Bartoe's. MR. HERRIMAN: No, seven days. MR. BARTOE: I believe the gentleman stated he's a state certified Gc. Ifhe registers with the county, he could install shutters with that license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't think he's going to have a problem with this either. MR. JOSLIN: I don't either. But thank you, Tom. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have a perfect credit report. Everything is in line in here, all your licenses. The explanation is very understandable. I'm familiar with your company. MR. NEALE: The only finding the board really has to make is you're waiving testing requirements and that his experience would Page 36 March 19,2008 show that further testing would be superfluous because of the experience that he has in the trade. That's really -- as I say, you're just waiving testing requirements. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not only is his testing superfluous but he could use the GC license to circumvent this entire meeting. MR. HEMED: Yes, that's true. But since I already have the license and have held it for many years, I would prefer to keep both licenses. It was very difficult to obtain them, so I'd rather keep them in good standing and continue on. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I wish the state would come up with a state license on shutters. That would be nice. MR. HEMED: Yeah. There is no category I'm aware of at this point in time for that. You either need to be a state certified aluminum specialty contractor or you can be a general contractor and qualify. I don't think any other categories would fit that bill right now. MR. OSSORIO: There is a state certified specialty structural license through the state. It's voluntary. And you are state certified, and that lets you do hurricane shutters. So there is a classification for it. MR. L YKOS: But he has a GC license anyway, so-- MR. OSSORIO: But he's a general contractor. But, you know, you'll find that many general contractors have a general contracting license, but they also have a specialty. And they do it for a reason, and I'm sure you know why, is that when you go for insurances, if you are a general contractor you're going to pay a lot more than if you were going to go down and get a tile and marble license or if you were going to be a painter. So you're going to pay -- the premium is different to that category. And if you are just going to do shutters, why are you going to get a liability for a general contractor when you're just going to do shutters? I mean, that's a personal preference. But, you know, I think that you're doing the right thing. And I Page 37 March 19,2008 believe that he should pay all his back fees and we'll get him back on track where he needs to be. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll make a motion to approve without retesting, based upon previous experience and other licenses that he holds. He could qualify without the testing. MR. L YKOS: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second, Lykos. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you well. You were here-- MR. HEMED: Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for hearing me today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You were here at the beginning of the meeting? MR. HEMED: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so you know not to go there. MR. HEMED: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. MR. L YKOS: And you know what? I've got to say this: I'm proud you're a member of our industry. You're doing a great job. Thank you. MR. HEMED: Thank you. Thank you for saying that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got a question for you. Are you Page 38 March 19,2008 seeing that much increase in business because of that Hurricane Mitigation Bill, what's coming up January 1? You have to go back there to answer me. But I really am curious. MR. HEMED: Things have been a little bit slow. This was generally our off season. But we're coming a little bit into season and we're seeing a little bit more activity right now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are aware of what I'm talking about? The Hurricane Mitigation Bill, House Bill 7057. As of January 1st, any house valued over 750,000 tax value has to have full hurricane protection or it's not insurable. MR. HEMED: Yes. There was also the -- they have another program, I don't know, the My Save Florida Home Program. I guess that's going to cover homes under 250 in assessed value, where state residents, if it's their primary residence, they qualify for up to a $5,000, I guess it's like a -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's a totally different issue, though. MR. L YKOS: Wasn't that house bill just for homes insured by Citizens? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. It says not insured by Citizens. However, who do you think's going to write you if Citizens says no? So pretty well takes everybody. Thank you. We've got a new building code coming out October 1 st, too. There will be some cute little changes in that coming up. Let's -- everyone good for one at least one case before we take a break? Good. We're going to help you quit. MR. JOSLIN: Okay, thanks. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Public hearings. Case No. 2008-01. Pau11. Harmison, d/b/a Bayshore Aluminum Construction, Incorporated. Paul, are you present? (No response.) Page 39 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is Paul Harmison present? Oh, okay. MR. NEALE: He was -- if I remember correctly, he was here at the last meeting, provided testimony that will be entered into the record, I believe, by the county. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's right. Andy, you're handling this case? MR. WUHRER: I am, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you come up and present -- I remind the board, Mr. Lykos wasn't here. Should I have a reading of those minutes for Mr. Lykos? Is that admissible? Otherwise -- MR. BOYD: I wasn't here either. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have to have a reading of those minutes. MR. NEALE: Well, at least I would recommend -- and Mr. Zachary may want to comment because he's the one bringing the case forward -- is that at least they probably should have an opportunity to review those minutes, whether they need to be read into the record or just entered, and let the board members who were not here at least read the minutes as provided. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, and there really wasn't a meeting. MR. NEALE: No, there were not -- really the minutes were taken -- they were not minutes of a meeting, they were actually essentially transcribed testimony of Mr. Harmison that the board was able to hear at that point in time. And now the board members who are here that weren't there probably ought to review that prior to the hearing of the case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But I don't know -- you didn't transpose those, did you? MR. NEALE: Mr. Ossorio has a copy of them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so he didn't read them. Andy, I'll go ahead and let you take it. Page 40 March 19,2008 MR. WUHRER: Good morning, members of the board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. State your name, I'll have you sworn in. MR. WUHRER: My name is Andy Wuhrer, Contracting Licensing Field Investigator. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. WUHRER: Mr. Chairman, I guess we've been sort of over this a couple times already, so I'll make it very brief here. This has to do with Paul Harmon (sic) with Bayshores (sic) Aluminum where a job was started for a homeowner, Mrs. Carol McBride. But the job was never completed. And the job was never C.O.'d. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the charges. Keep going. MR. WUHRER: It was involving a skim coating I believe of a slab, and also some repairs to a screen enclosure. The company is no longer in business to assist in getting the job corrected and C.O.'d. And Mr. Harrison (sic), as we noted at the last meeting, is incapacitated medically, so he can personally not take care of that problem. The total job that was done for Mrs. McBride was a $4,800 job, which you can note on the proposal, with $2,400 down. And subsequent to that, speaking with Mrs. McBride today, she has -- she was unable to attend, by the way. But she just paid another contractor $7,350 to complete the job, a job which she's extremely happy with. And she can supply that information, if needed. Also, her attorney has advised her that if she's unhappy with the outcome of the financial restitution if any from this job that she's to file a civil action on this. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, do you want to -- Mr. Ossorio, do you want to -- Mr. Ossorio. I'm sorry. Mr. Zachary -- I forgot names for a minute. If you would, you want to read into his testimony? Page 41 March 19,2008 MR. ZACHARY: Yeah, Mr. Dickson, I think that if! can summarize the situation we had at the last meeting -- was not a meeting, we didn't have a quorum. But Mr. Harmison was present and he had a pretty severe disability. There was a discussion that was had about bringing -- continuing that and bringing him back for another meeting. We decided that Mr. Harmison -- everybody was in agreement that Mr. Harmison would give his testimony before the board, that we would use that testimony in this case today. What I would like do is -- if you remember, there was an issue that he was in pretty severe pain and had some medications, and we had a question about whether or not he might be competent to testify or not. So with that said, I questioned Mr. Harmison at the last time we were together, the night (sic) of the meeting. The testimony was transcribed. And I if! can read that relevant testimony. Not the whole thing that was -- the discussion we had back and forth about whether or not he had to come back for another meeting. But if I could just read his testimony. Then the board could be aware of that he was generally of sound mind, was in agreement with the proposals that were going on, and that he was willing to give that testimony and not -- so he wouldn't have to come back before this board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead. MR. ZACHARY: I'll start on what's Page 5 of the testimony. This is where we had a discussion that I would question him about his competence. I said: Could you state your name for the record. Mr. Harmison said: Paul Louis Harmison. I asked him: Are you here today for Case No. 2008-01, which is -- and your license number is 27081; is that correct? Mr. Harmon (sic) says: Correct. Page 42 March 19,2008 I asked him: And are you doing business as Bayshore Aluminum Construction? Mr. Harmison: I was qualifier, yes. I asked: And do you understand that you had an administrative complaint against you by the county? Mr. Harmison: Yes. I asked him: Obviously you are under some duress. Are you able to give testimony and understand the proceedings here against you today? Mr. Harmison: Yeah, I'd like to get them out of the way. I asked: Okay. And do you understand that you were charged with abandoning a construction project? Mr. Harmison: Yes, I am. I asked: Do you want to admit to those charges here today, and do you understand what you're doing? Mr. Harmison: I understand what I'm doing, and I would like to put in mitigating factors at this time. I asked: Okay, could you-- Mr. Harmison: I was undergoing medical procedure at that time, and the expression slipped through the cracks. My son was helping me as much as he could while I was undergoing medical tests, and I was not aware of it at the time. I thought it was all handled. I asked: But you're not going to contest these charges? Mr. Harmison: No, I'm not going to contest them. It's not inspected, it's not inspected. I asked: Did you understand that this could result in the loss of your ability to pull permits for further jobs? Mr. Harmison: Yes. I asked: And you're willing to do this and you understand everything and the consequences? Mr. Harmison: Yes, I do. I said: Okay. Page 43 March 19,2008 And I asked Mr. Ossorio: Do you have any questions for Mr. Harmison? Mr. Ossorio said: None. I said: Okay, thank you for coming. Mr. Harmison said: Okay. I'm free to go? And I said: Yes, thank you. Mr. Chairman, you said: Thank you, okay, be as is that nobody -- I said: Mr. Harmison, just one more thing. Do you waive your right to appear at the next meeting and face these charges formally? Mr. Herriman: Yes. I said: Okay, thank you. Mr. Chairman, you said: Being that there's nobody else that has come in, I can't go any further therefore with this meeting -- And I said: Never happened. Mr. Chairman, you said -- never really happened. We could call it adjourned. I apologize for everyone who had to come. It's the second time in 20 years, like I said. I apologize and we'll try to rectify it and get things done next time. Thank you very much. Nothing further to read into the record. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Just for the record, then all this testimony that you just gave from Mr. Herriman (sic) --I'm sorry, from-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Harmon (sic). MR. JOSLIN: Harmon (sic). MR. NEALE: Harmison. MR. JOSLIN: Was witnessed by certain members of the board that heard his testimony. MR. ZACHARY: Yes, certain members of the board did. I have -- what I'm reading from is a transcript of -- it's at the Collier County licensing board. Present was Mr. Dickson, Mr. Blum, Mr. Guite' and Mr. Joslin. Page 44 March 19,2008 MR. JOSLIN: Okay. I think we can proceed then, huh? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Everyone on the board, with that and the packet that you have in front of you, do you need -- do you have any questions or anymore testimony, or are you at a point to move forward on the charges? We won't do penalty phase yet, we'll only do charges. MR. JOSLIN: I think we should just move forward on the charges. It's pretty much -- MR. HERRIMAN: Move forward. MR. HORN: Move forward, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The two charges, they are spelled out there. I might mention that -- what's the lady's name who -- MR. JOSLIN: McBride. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, Mrs. McBride. Yeah, she was-- she came two months in a row. And I do want to -- I tried to thank her then, but I want to thank her now too. I hope she's watching. But we appreciate the time that she spent in this issue. We really appreciate her. Because she does help not only hopefully herself but she helps other people of the county as well. So with that in mind, do I have a motion on two charges, 4.1.3 of abandoning a construction project. And a second charge of Count No. 4.1.6, disregard or violate the performance of his contracting business in Collier County. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make that motion. We find that Paul L. Harmison, d/b/a Bayshore Aluminum Construction, Inc., License No. 27081 be found guilty on Count 1 and on Count 2. County 1 being 4.1.3, abandoning a construction project in which he or she engaged or under contract as a contractor. Project may be presumed abandoned if the contractor terminates the project without just cause or fails to notify the owner in writing of termination of the contract and basis for Page 45 March 19,2008 the same, or fails to perform work for 90 consecutive days without just cause and no said notice to the owner. Also guilty on Count 2, 4.1.6. Disregards or violated in the performance of his contracting business in Collier County any of the building, safety, health, insurance or Workmen's Compensation laws of the State of Florida or ordinances of this county. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have a second? MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Passes. I'm going to come back to you, Mr. Wuhrer, with your recommendations in just a minute. First Mr. Neale, you want to briefus on what our options are as far as taking action? MR. NEALE: Certainly. Since the board's-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me explain, since I got a new member. Just a minute, Pat, if you don't mind. MR. NEALE: Sure, no. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why can't I remember your name, Zachary, today? God, I've known you forever. Mr. Zachary represents the county, and the county commissioners. He is the county attorney. Mr. Neale is in private practice. Mr. Neale is only representing Page 46 March 19,2008 this board. He keeps us out of trouble. Between the two of them -- and if you notice, they're the only suits in here. That's why we call them the suits. But between the two of them, they've done a pretty good job of keeping us out of trouble. So that's their function on the board. Go ahead, Pat, sorry. MR. ZACHARY: I think I want to say I'm an assistant county attorney. There's-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but you'll be the next full time. MR. NEALE: And what's typically in these kind of cases, just to give you a quick background, since we've got a moment, is these kinds of cases are quasi judicial in nature where the board really does have the ability to impose some fairly severely penalties, and so it's a pretty significant responsibility. And the board can take away someone's ability to earn a living. You can take away his or her ability to practice contracting. So it is a major decision. And you'll hear in the later cases, I'll give you the full charge to the board as to what your responsibilities are to these cases, somewhat short-circuited because of the pleading of the respondent. But the board does at this point now have to decide on what sanctions. Now that they found the person in violation of the charges, they have to decide on what sanctions that you're going to impose on the person who's been found in violation. And there's really five different major sanctions that the board can impose on someone who's found in violation of the code. They may deny the issuance of building permits or permits with restrictions. The board may also -- and I'll have go to the sanctions here, since I don't have them right here. MR. L YKOS: You guys don't have these memorized? MR. NEALE: You think I would. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pretty much. Page 47 March 19,2008 MR. NEALE: There really are a number of sanctions. Number one is revocation of the Collier County or city Certificate of Competency. Number two is suspension of a Collier County or city Certificate of Competency. Number three is denial of the issuance or renewal of a Collier County or city Certificate of Competency. Number four is to put the person operating under a period of probation of reasonable length not to exceed two years, during which time the contractor's contracting activities shall be under the supervision of the contractor's licensing board and/or their participation in a duly accredited program of continuing education directly related to the contracting activities. That period of probation or continuing education may be revoked for cause by the board at a hearing noticed to consider the purpose. Restitution is also possible. Restitution has to be proven by evidence, but the board can issue an order for restitution. A fine not to exceed $10,000 per violation. A public reprimand. A reexamination requirement. Denial of the issuance of Collier County or city building permits or requiring the issuance of permits with conditions. And award reasonable investigative and legal costs. In the imposition of these violations, the board has to consider five elements: The gravity of the violation; the impact of the violation on the public health, welfare or safety; actions taken by the violator to correct the violation; any previous violations committed by the violator; and any other evidence presented at the hearing by the parties relevant as to the sanction which is appropriate for the case, given the nature of the violation and the violator. These orders are effective upon being stated here at this hearing. Page 48 March 19,2008 And the other thing that the board must do is issue a recommended penalty for the State Construction Industry Licensing Board. The penalties that the board may recommend include: A recommendation of no further action; a recommendation of the suspension, revocation or restriction of the registration; or a fine to be levied by the State Construction Industry Licensing Board. And these are for state registered contractors, of course. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, Mr. Neale. Mr. Wuhrer, what's the county's recommendation on sanctions? MR. WUHRER: Mr. Chairman, partially the recommendation from staff would be that the fees to properly put this thing back together be paid my Mr. Harmon (sic) to the extent of$7,350. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's the restitution, correct? MR. WUHRER: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say that again? MR. WUHRER: $7,350. Which was the amount paid to another contractor to come in and correct the problems. And the second part I'll defer to Mr. Ossorio. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Michael? MR. OSSORIO: Like Mr. Wuhrer has needed before, that restitution was clarified through testimony of $7,800 and change. We also recommend that we pay investigational costs of$l,OOO, and his license be suspended. I do however think that hopefully that we can suspend his license and if Mr. Harmison comes up with the funds within 13 months that he'll be able to petition the licensing board to go ahead and conduct his business properly again. So with that said, suspend his license for a period of 13 months from today, pay full restitution and $1,000 of investigation costs, due to the fact that this is our third month here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And he's not -- is he state registered? Page 49 March 19,2008 MR. OSSORIO: No. And there's no recommendation to the State Licensing Board due to the fact that he's county licensed and not state registered. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Clarification. You said 7,800 and change, and we just served 7,350. Which one is it? MR. WUHRER: Well, the amount that she gave me this morning, which was from her memory, was two separate amounts that she had to pay totaling 7,350. I would be happy to get the exact amount by getting copies of that, but this is what she gave me verbally. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's the figure I've got to go with, isn't it, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, it's going to be exact when we finish. MR. WUHRER: Yeah, it can only be dollars different, according to her. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anyone have any questions or any further comments before I ask for a motion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We do this in two phases: One is the count phase and one is the sanction phase. MR. L YKOS: I understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody willing to make a motion on the sanctions? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll do it. I move that in the case of Collier County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, versus Paul L. Harmison, d/b/a Bayshore Aluminum Construction, Incorporated, Case No. 2008-01, License No. 27081, that the following sanctions hereby be imposed: Number one: His license be suspended for 13 months. If it is not Page 50 March 19,2008 reinstated at the end of that 13 months, the license will then be revoked. Number two: That a restitution of $7,350 be imposed upon the contractor in this case. And that money is payable -- I don't want to use a date here to where they can't get it back. But that payments begin within no more than 60 days. And be completed -- MR. JOSLIN: Within 13 months. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Within the l3 months. Hopefully that can be done sooner. But until such time as restitution is made, the license is suspended and there will be no permit pulling privileges offered to him, as long as there's an outstanding balance. And number three: That the contractor also pay to the county a case cost for investigating this case of $1 ,000. No recommendation to the state. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? MR. HERRIMAN: Question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. HERRIMAN: If he pays the total amount before the 13 months, can he get his license reinstated? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He'll have to come back before this board. Isn't that correct, Mr. Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We'll see him again. MR. NEALE: Yeah, that's the one thing that needs to be noted in the motion, that if he does make the payment, then he has the -- if he makes the payment within 13 months, he has the opportunity to petition the board for reinstatement. That doesn't automatically reinstate him, it gives him the opportunity to petition for reinstatement. Page 51 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Clarification of the motion. That if the $7,350 and the $1,000 case cost investigation amount is paid within the 13 months, then the contractor will have the privilege of coming back before the board to possibly reinstate a license. But that will be decided at the time once he appears before this board. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second that change. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Clear enough, Pat? MR. NEALE: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so real quick -- MR. ZACHARY: Excuse me, Mr. Dickson, one more point. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. ZACHARY: Because of the unusual nature of this case, and I've read this transcript into -- I think it was into evidence, so I may need to get sworn in that what I read to you was the transcript the way it was actually written, just for housekeeping purposes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's do that. Even though you're a friend of the court? MR. NEALE: But he's offering testimony. MR. ZACHARY: But I was offering testimony. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's right, okay. MR. ZACHARY: It was something that I -- it's an unusual Page 52 March 19,2008 situation, I've never done that before, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Zachary, if you would, state your name. MR. ZACHARY: Robert Zachary. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Zachary, the statement that you read of Mr. Harmison, was that the exact testimony that was given by him on that date? MR. ZACHARY: What I read was word for word from the transcript, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And what was the date of that transcript, that testimony again? MR. ZACHARY: That testimony was given on February 20, 2008. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion that we accept all transcribed information provided by Mr. Zachary regarding Mr. Herriman's (sic) case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second. Yeah, because we didn't put that in the packet. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Some legalese. Mr. Neale, I've got to do this, don't I? MR. NEALE: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry about this. This is the worst part of the case. Of course Cherie' knows it fast enough, she can go with Page 53 March 19, 2008 me. Board of Collier County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, the petitioner, versus Paul Harmison -- Paul L. Harmison, d/b/a Bayshore Limited Construction, Incorporated. Case No. 2008-01, License No. 27081. This cause came on or for public hearing before the Contractor Licensing Board on March 19th, 2008 for the consideration of the complaint filed against Paul L. Harmison. Service of the complaint was made by certified mail and personal delivery with Collier County Ordinance 90-105, as amended. The board, having heard testimony under oath, received evidence and heard arguments respective of all appropriate matters herein, issues its finding of fact and conclusions of law in the order of the board as follows. I think I grabbed the wrong -- I'm looking for the one that talks about -- I got it, Mr. Neale. There's several of these. But I want that one where it says -- okay, I've got it. Findings of fact: That Paul L. Harmison is the holder of record of Certificate of Competency No. 27081. Number two: The Board of County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida is the complainant in this matter. Number three: That the board has jurisdiction of the person on the -- of the respondent. And that Paul L. Harmison was not present at the public hearing and was not represented by counsel. Can I add here, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: You can make a finding that however testimony which he had given in the past was entered into the record in this manner. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the testimony that he had given in February was read into the record. Number four: All notices required by Collier County Ordinance No. 90-l05, as amended, have been properly issued. The allegations Page 54 March 19,2008 and findings of fact of the administrative complaint are approved and incorporated, adopted by reference to the findings of fact, conclusion oflaw. The conclusions of law alleged and set forth in the administrative complaint are approved and adopted and incorporated herein, to wit: Count number one, 4.1.3, abandoning a construction project in which he is engaged or under contract as a contractor or project may be presumed abandoned if the contractor terminates the project without just cause or fails to notify the owner in writing of the termination of the contract, basis for same or fails to perform work for 90 days without just cause and no said -- no notice to the owner. And also guilty of count number two, 4.1.6, disregards or violates in the performance of his contracting business in Collier County any other building, safety, health, insurance or Workmen's Compensation laws of the State of Florida or ordinance of this county. Order of the board: Based upon the foregoing findings of fact and conclusions of law pursuant to the authority granted in Chapter 489, Florida Statutes and Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended, by a vote of six in favor and zero opposed, it is hereby ordered that the following disciplinary sanctions are hereby imposed upon the holder of Collier County Contractor Certificate of Competency No. 27081. Number one: License is hereby suspended for 13 months, at which time at the end of the 13 months if it has not reinstated will be revoked. Number two: Restitution in the amount of $7,350 be paid to the homeowner via the contractor licensing offices of Collier County. Number three: That case costs in the amount of $1 ,000 be paid to Collier County. There be no forwarding -- no recommendation to the state. And that Mr. Harmison may sanction or may approach the board for reinstatement of his license if that fine and the restitution is paid Page 55 March 19,2008 during within 13-month period. Enough said. Okay, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: That's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Very good. MR. ZACHARY: One more thing, Mr. Dickson, I want to clarify, that I didn't read the entire transcript, but only the portions that were relevant to Mr. Herriman's (sic) testimony today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I will note that in the order of the board, that only the relevant portions of his transcript were read. How about we take -- if I can hold it to 10 minutes, it would be wonderful. It's 10:33 right now. I'll give you a little slack. 10:45 we reconvene. Let's take a quick break, then we'll go to the next case. (Recess.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to call back to order -- wow, almost perfectly on time -- call back to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board. Next case is -- you want to do 02; is that who these people are, Mike? MR. OSSORIO: They're 03. If you want to skip 02 and go to 03, that's up to -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: These people have sat here and waited for an hour and 45 minutes. Case No. 2008-103, Robert Albertsen, d/b/a Robert M. Albertsen, Incorporated. Is Robert Albertsen present? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He is not. Ian, are you going to present this case? MR. JACKSON: I am. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I'll let you have the floor, sir. MR. JACKSON: For the record, Ian Jackson, Contractor Licensing for Collier County. Page 56 March 19, 2008 (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Make sure you got the right case, because I did skip one. Okay, go ahead. MR. JACKSON: This case involves a certified building contractor, License No. CBC-125-1602. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I interrupt you for just a minute? MR. JACKSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have any idea why Robert Albertsen is not present? MR. JACKSON: I do not have any idea why he is not here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, then I need for you to -- the first thing you need to do before I can continue is you've got to prove servIce. MR. JACKSON: I mailed a notice of hearing to Mr. Albertsen on MR. JOSLIN: It's in the packet, I believe. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: February 1st, '08? MR. JACKSON: That's when the notice of hearing was signed for on the return receipt. It looks like Robert Albertsen. I was in contact with Charlotte County, asked someone from the building department from Charlotte County to go by this address. Mr. Albertsen is homesteaded at this address, unclear on whether he actually lives there. But it appeared to me that that was his signature on the return receipt, so I proceeded with bringing it here today. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you had any contact with him? MR. JACKSON: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, can I proceed on this? I don't know if that's Robert Albertsen's signature. MR. NEALE: I think there can be a presumption made that he did -- that it was him, because it was the address last made. And appropriate service pursuant to the ordinance is that the board -- the contractor licensing staff shall send by certified mail, return receipt Page 57 March 19,2008 requested, a letter to the licensed contractor at his local address or, if applicable, the local agent's address as shown by the records of the Contractor Licensing Board, enclosing a copy of the complaint indicating the name of the complainant, the date of the commission of the offense, the section of the article alleged to have been violated, the range of sanctions which may be imposed upon the contractor pursuant to this article by the Contractor Licensing Board in the event said board finds a violation, and the date, time and place at which the contractor shall appear before the Contractor Licensing Board for a hearing regarding the complaint. And the date scheduled shall not be sooner than 20 days from the mailing date of the letter. If the board finds that all of those were met, then that is good servIce. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ian, you know, I'm just being --I'm trying to error on the side of caution. MR. NEALE: So what I would propose is that the board take testimony and make a finding that appropriate service was made pursuant to Collier County ordinance. MR. JOSLIN: Would it also apply too that the actual physical address of the business and where the actual certified letter was mailed to, they match as far as the case, and -- MR. NEALE: Exactly. And it needs to be the local address that is on file with the Contractor Licensing Board, because the -- all contractors have a responsibility to maintain a current valid address with the board. The board has to go on the address maintained with them, not any secondary information they have. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is this Mr. and Mrs. Drews? MR. JACKSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Drews, would you approach the podium, please, sir. If you would, state your name and I'll have you sworn in, sir. Page 58 March 19,2008 MR. DREWS: My name is Loren Drews. MR. NEALE: Excuse me, Mr. Dickson, what I would-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He knows where he is. MR. NEALE: Okay. But what I said is if you're taking testimony for the purposes of finding -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just this. MR. NEALE: -- appropriate service. Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Drews, we want to hear this case, you know this. I'm just trying to cover myself so that nothing gets kicked out. MR. DREWS: Very good. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You know where this contractor is, don't you? MR. DREWS: Well, not really. I've tried to reach him many times with no avail. And that's why I took out the complaint against him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When's the last time you saw him? MR. DREWS: I'm not sure that I really met him. Just going back now after Wilma, I think I might have met him once when he came out to make the measurements. But I'm not sure it was him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm getting -- this hole is getting deeper. MR. DREWS: Oh, it's a terrible story. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but the hole that I'm digging for myself is getting deeper. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me finish. Have you talked to him on the phone? MR. DREWS: I can't get -- he won't respond to any of my calls. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's still getting deeper. Someone help Page 59 March 19,2008 me. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Chairman, I think under the circumstances with the evidence that we have before us and the certified letter that he was given with proper service, that I think that I'd like to make a motion that we proceed with the Case No. 2008-03 and hear the testimony with respondents here; that Robert M. Albertsen was duly served, and I believe of his own free will he's not here now. MR. NEALE: And Mr. Zachary makes a very good point, that if you -- the careful reading of the ordinance, it specially states that the mailing certified return receipt is appropriate service. There's no requirement that the card be returned, the return receipt be returned. In this case you actually have the return receipt signed by someone who purported to be Mr. Albertsen at the address which Mr. Albertsen had on file with Collier County. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I agree. Thank you, Mr. Drews. MR. HORN: I'd like to second the motion. MR. JOSLIN: I'd like to add that --I'll add that last comment from Mr. Patrick (sic) into the motion also. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a second. MR. HORN: Second amended, Horn. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: To the county, you know what I was doing there. I wasn't questioning you at all, but I could see this thing coming back another way. I just like to have more than one -- and for future reference, I like to have more than just that card. Someone talk to him, go to his house, Page 60 March 19, 2008 drive by there, someone know that he knows there's a complaint here and it's going to be heard. Okay. MR. NEALE: Although just to be clear on the record that while that would be good, it's not required at all by ordinance or statute, so -- good service is obtained just by following the rules of the ordinance. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. Proceed. MR. JACKSON: I'll start at the beginning of Mr. Drews' aluminum pool cage. Mr. Drews originally contracted with a company from Miami called Sea-mar, where Mr. Drews gave Sea-mar the initial deposit. Due to the inability of Sea-Mar to construct the pool cage, they terminated the contract, which was recorded in the Clerk of Courts. The initial deposit then went to Mr. Albertsen when Mr. Drews signed the contract with Robert Albertsen, Incorporated for the construction of this pool cage. That explains one of the checks that was written to Sea-Mar, which ultimately went to Robert Albertsen. Construction began. No building permit was applied for. Construction is finished. Mr. Drews pays Robert Albertsen $11,600 directly to Albertsen, plus the other 3,000 that Albertsen received from the original company. The pool cage is built. The City of Marco Island Code Enforcement opens a case on Mr. Drews because there's no permit for his pool cage. Ultimately, as of yesterday, I spoke with Marco Island, there still is no permit applied for, and there is the potential for Mr. Drews to be faced with fines or inflated building permit fees for his cage that was built by Robert Albertsen, Incorporated. MR. JOSLIN: One question while you're going there. Just to clarify, how did the -- how did the -- one second. How did Mr. Drews initiate the contract with Sea-Mar and then it Page 61 March 19, 2008 was basically what, sold or given to Mr. Albertsen to complete? MR. JACKSON: From what I understand from Sea-Mar, Sea-Mar and Robert Albertsen, Incorporated worked with each other, subcontracted with each other. Ultimately they had some issues between the two of those companies, and previous to their issues Sea-Mar terminated their contract with Mr. Drews, forwarded the deposit to Robert Albertsen, Robert Albertsen ultimately built the cage using subcontractors, I'm assuming, and collected all of the money. MR. JOSLIN: But still as of this date hasn't pulled a permit or got a valid permit. MR. JACKSON: As of yesterday I spoke with Marco and there's no permit applied for for that pool cage. MR. JOSLIN: And you are certain that Sea-Mar or Mr. Drews gave this check to Mr. Albertsen? The deposit check I'm talking about. MR. JACKSON: The initial check. MR. JOSLIN: They did receive that? MR. JACKSON: I did speak -- just to reiterate, I asked Mr. Drews once again this morning, the initial check went to Sea-Mar, and he said yes, the initial payment went to Sea-Mar. Everything subsequent from that went to Robert Albertsen, Incorporated. MR. JOSLIN: All right, go ahead, I'm sorry. MR. DREWS: May I clarify a point for you? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, he'll call you up in just a minute. Are you finished? MR. JACKSON: That's all I have. I'll be happy to answer questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You want to call your witnesses? MR. JACKSON: I'll call Mr. Drews so he can clarify. MR. DREWS: The reason the contract was switched to Albertsen from Sea-Mar was the fact that it took so long to even get anybody out to do a pool cage at the time, because everybody was scrambling to Page 62 March 19,2008 get a pool cage built. I had to put up a temporary fence around mine. And Sea-Mar called me and said we lost all our help to Mississippi and Louisiana, so we cannot complete your cage. We would like to turn it over to this other company, Albertsen. So I said, well, if you recommend them, I guess we can do that. I had gone, before I signed the contract with them, to City Hall in Marco Island to check on the status. He was licensed to do work on Marco and in Collier County. And he had taken three permits out to do pools on Marco. But evidently he never took mine out. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a horrid case. And I'm so sick of screen enclosures. I mean, that's all we've had since Wilma is screen enclosures. And the clown that we revoked his license from down in Marco, he gets arrested what, last month, he's still out there taking deposits and stealing money. MR. DREWS: Well, the worst part of this is that the pool cage was not built properly. So after --I'm probably going to be forced to take out the permit and have it reengineered and then get another contractor to repair the mistakes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you had any liens placed on your house? MR. DREWS: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Boy, if we have another hurricane I hope people wait two or three years to get screen enclosures. It has been a nightmare. MR. DREWS: It's been such a mess, though, if you don't have a cage. You know, it was -- I was happy to get almost anybody to get a cage back up it took so long. It was -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What they don't tell you, if you cut four or five of those panels of screens your cage will not implode. So in the future, cut screens. MR. DREWS: I usually take the screens out of the doors, then . Page 63 March 19,2008 the wind can go through. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Same thing with screen enclosure. MR. DREWS: Well, that's what I was referring to. But Wilma was pretty bad by our house. I had $25,000 damage. MR. HERRIMAN: I have a question. Mr. Drew, you wrote a check to this contractor on April 7th for $6,120. Did you give it to him? MR. DREWS: The two fellows that were -- I call them Mutt and Jeff that were doing the job requested the check at a certain period of time for the material and what they had completed at that point. And they finished up at 10:00 one night. I have a picture, if you're interested in looking at it. That's them finishing up at nighttime. And I couldn't tell all the mistakes in the dark, and I was just happy to get rid of them. And I paid the final amount. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have any questions? (No response.) MR. JACKSON: I have dealt with Robert Albertsen with other cases previous to this, which were ultimately referred to Department of Business and Professional Regulations. I do know that he's scheduled for a hearing at the state level as well, for what that's worth. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you've talked to this individual. MR. JACKSON: I've talked to him. Not about this case; previous cases very similar. To where I thought it was best that they file with the state, who really has the jurisdiction over this contractor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because why? Is he doing them under his residential building license? MR. JACKSON: The certified building -- yes, the certified license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. But he does have a competency card in Collier County? MR. JACKSON: Correct. He's registered with the county to Page 64 March 19,2008 obtain permits. But he is doing business under the certified building contractor license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, is it -- are we allowed to expand this to include a state license to stop permit pulling privileges? MR. NEALE: That is actually the only power this board has over a state certified contractor is -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we have a competency card we can take full action on. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, that is a certificate issued to the building department so that he or she is able to pull building permits. But on -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, I got you. MR. OSSORIO: The only thing we're looking at today for any state licensed contractor who pulls a building permit is under 4.2.2, is willfully violating the Florida Building Code, which is -- obviously 105 of the Florida Building Code tells you that you have to have a building permit. With that said, that is the first step of many things that the state's going to be looking at when -- if indeed we issue a finding of fact on a loca11eve1 we refer to the state for sanctions. And the only thing we're looking for today, as any state certified contractor, is the ability to go ahead and pull his building privileges so that this gentleman, he or she, is not able to pull building permits tomorrow without cleaning up his obligations. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Should we not address it as CBC license? MR. OSSORIO: I would definitely refer to the certificate number and refer it in the finding of fact as a state certified license, whatever that number night be. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got it here. It's CBC, certified building license CBC 125-1602. Okay. Anything else, Ian? Page 65 March 19,2008 MR. JACKSON: I have nothing else. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have any questions of the Drews or Ian? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. I'll call you back in just a minute. MR. JACKSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The charge is willfully violating building codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County. Do I hear a motion on that charge? MR. NEALE: Do you want me, for Mr. Lykos's benefit, to do the charge? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, he hasn't heard that one, has he? MR. NEALE: No, he hasn't heard that one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead. MR. NEALE: It's good to get it on here. In these deliberations, the board, in its deliberations, shall ascertain that fundamental fairness and due process were afforded to the respondent. However, pursuant to Section 22-202 (G)(5) of the codified ordinance, the formal Rules of Evidence as set out in Florida statutes, shall not apply. The board shall consider solely evidence presented at the hearing in the consideration of this matter. It shall exclude from its deliberations irrelevant, immaterial and cumulative testimony. It shall admit and consider all other evidence of a type commonly relied upon by a reasonably prudent person in the conduct of their affairs. This is whether or not the evidence so admitted would be admissible in a court oflaw or equity. Hearsay may be used to explain or supplement other evidence in this matter, but by itself it is not sufficient to support a finding in this or any other case unless it would be admissible over objection in civil court. Page 66 March 19, 2008 The standard of proof in these types of cases, although not necessarily in this one, wherein the respondent may lose his privileges to practice his profession is that the evidence presented by the complainant must prove the complaint's case in a clear and convincing manner. This burden of proof on the complainant is a larger burden than the preponderance of the evidence standard set for normal civil cases. That is the standard specifically for where a license may be taken away and a person has the ability to practice their profession taken away. The standard of proof for other matters is still the preponderance of evidence standard. These standards in evidence are to be weighed solely as to the charges set out in complaint as Ordinance 90-105, Section 4.2.2 of the Collier County Code of Ordinances; to wit, willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County. In order to support a finding that the respondent is in violation of the ordinance, the board must find facts that show that the violations were actually committed by the respondent. The facts also must show to a clear and convincing standard the legal conclusion that the respondent was in violation of the relevant section of the ordinance. These charges are the only ones that the board may decide upon -- this charge actually in this case is the only one that the board may decide upon, as this is the only one to which the respondent has had the opportunity to prepare a defense. And the damages if any that are awarded must be directly related to those charges and may not be for matters not related. The decision made by this board shall be stated orally at this hearing and is effective upon being read by the board. The respondent, if he is found in violation, has certain appeal rights to this board: A rehearing, the courts and the State Construction Page 67 March 19, 2008 Industry Licensing Board, as set out in Collier County ordinances and the Florida statutes and rules. If the board is unable to issue a decision immediately following the hearing because of questions of law or other matters that of such a nature that a decision may not be made at this hearing, the board may withhold its decision until a subsequent meeting. The board shall vote based upon the evidence presented on all areas, and if it finds the respondent in violation, adopt the administrative complaint. The board shall also make findings of fact and conclusions of law in support of the charges set out in the administrative complaint. And now you proceed on the violations. MR. JOSLIN: Should we, just for the record-- MR. NEALE: Oh, yeah, one thing that Mr. Zachary makes a good point. Composite Exhibit A has not yet been moved into -- MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. NEALE: -- evidence, so you need to do that. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion that we put composite Exhibit A, Case No. 2008-03 into evidence on the testimony and information given thereof. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I second. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. MR. JOSLIN: Now you can -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The biggest thing I had explained to me one time, preponderance of evidence. Preponderance of evidence Page 68 March 19,2008 is 50.1 percent of the evidence. Whereas clear and convincing is what, 75 or 80? MR. NEALE: It's on-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Legal is beyond a shadow ofa doubt. MR. NEALE: Beyond a reasonable doubt is criminal. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that's criminal, and that's when the glove didn't fit 0.1., he walked. So all we have to have is 50.1 percent on this board. Because we're a preponderance of evidence. And it's quasi judicial to start with. So do I hear a motion on the charge? MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion that we find Robert M. Albertsen, d/b/a Robert M. Albertsen, Inc., in Case No. 2008-03 guilty of count one. 4.2.2, willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws of the state, city, or Collier County. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. County, what's your recommendation for sanctions? And bear in mind state license. And then I'll go to Pat. MR. JACKSON: The recommendation of the county is the suspension or revocation of the permit-pulling privileges for Robert Albertsen, and forwarding to the state. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Forward to the state with what recom Page 69 March 19,2008 -- do we do a recommendation to the state? MR. NEALE: In this one it does need to have a recommendation to the state. But actually in these cases there's two things that happen: You make a recommendation to the state but also the state is notified by Mr. Ossorio's office and my office both within 15 days of the date of this hearing that permit-pulling privileges have been revoked for this contractor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can -- we don't do this this often, and that's why -- because we don't often deal with state licenses. But can we not expound on these recommendations? I want restitution. There's a bunch of things I would like to pursue in that recommendation to the state. MR. NEALE: Well, really, unfortunately for the board there's really only three areas that the board can recommend on. Particularly in this case, because you haven't had -- haven't taken evidence as to restitution or what it would cost. But in general, there's only three recommendations that the board may make: No further action; a recommendation of suspension, revocation or restriction of the license; or a fine to be levied by the state board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. NEALE: And just do the quick recommendation on sanctions here? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. NEALE: Since he's been found in violation of the Collier County ordinance, the board has to decide on the sanctions to be imposed. These sanctions are set out in the Collier County Ordinances. And since he's a state certified contractor the only sanction which may be imposed is the denial of the issuance of permits. In considering what sanction to impose or how to impose the sanction, the board considers the gravity of the violation, the impact of Page 70 March 19,2008 the violation on the community, any actions taken by the violators to correct the violation, previous violations committed, and any other evidence presented at the hearing by the parties that's relevant as to the sanction that's appropriate for the case, given the nature of the complaint. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One more question. Can we deny permit-pulling privileges until he appears before this board again? MR. NEALE: You can deny permit-pulling privileges forever. It's the board's prerogative. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's how I get my -- MR. HORN: Question, Mr. Chair. Would we be able to suggest the fine in the amount of 15,302, which was the cost to the homeowner, to the state and ask them to consider repaying to the homeowner? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, that's what I was trying to get in there. Of course the state's pretty tough. But I would like to see what the state does before we give him permit privileges back in Collier. MR. NEALE: Well, if the board denies permit-pulling privileges for him with -- for an open-ended period, they're gone. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because if they suffer money loss, I don't want him back in this county. Do you guys agree? MR. JOSLIN: Sure. Let's say, though, hypothetically, what ifhe -- obviously he's going to get notification of this meeting and what's going to happen. MR. NEALE: The only way the board really could make a recommendation to the state of restitution, and this is the only way I can think of it, is it can't be part of the formal order that gets transmitted to the state. Because those are constrained by statute. But certainly the board chair could write to the State Construction Industry Licensing Board with the support of the board a separate letter which could be used as evidence at the state hearing Page 71 March 19,2008 that this board has -- would recommend to the board independently, not as J?art of the order, that restitution be paid to these people. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd be glad to do that. It would mean, Mr. Drews, you would need to contact another screen enclosure company to find out what it's going to take to get a permit pulled and get that thing up to code so that I have an exact cost of what kind of money you're going to be out. And then I will gladly write a letter to the state to try to make sure you get that money. MR. DREWS: Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: I would also say probably maybe rather than just one quote from a screen company, maybe you ought to get three. Just that way there's no partiality. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but that's a burden, isn't it? MR. JOSLIN: I know. But if you're going to go before someone to do that, then they're going to want proof that -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know of two good ones, I don't know of a third one. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, can I just elaborate real quick -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: -- before we get offtrack here? Typically what happens is, is that Mr. Neale's absolutely correct, we will send a correspondence to the state licensing attorney. They will open up their own investigation. They will do exactly what Ian Jackson did, contact this homeowner, find out the particulars, and they will have their own finding. They'll uphold our finding of fact and elaborate on their own finding of fact. And then at that particular time -- they're certified mediators, you know, Ian Jackson's a mediator as well, and they will-- the people from Fort Myers will come down and we'll talk to them and find out what's it going to cost to go ahead and satisfy the issues. At that time the State Licensing Board will issue a finding. And then after that finding this gentleman, or whoever it might be, will go Page 72 March 19,2008 to what you call the construction industry recovery fund, and he will do that separately. But that's going to take a long period oftime. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, he is tier one, isn't he? MR. OSSORIO: Yes, he is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But that's only have they exhaust civil remedies. MR. OSSORIO: Yes. But I don't want you to step on the investigator's ability to go ahead. This is going to be a long process. And the investigator from Fort Myers will make contact with the individual and they will come to the conclusion of what needs to be done, what happened, what the particulars are, and they will do their own independent investigation as well. The only thing we're looking at for today is to -- housekeeping-wise is that yes, A, he's a state certified contractor; B, he violated the code; and C, what are we going to do about it? Let's pull his building privileges until he rectifies the issues need be with the state. That's what the county is looking for. Anything above that, if you want to send a letter to the state -- but I can tell you, the state's going to do their own thing. And if you know anything about the state level, things get lost and misplaced or they might not understand what you're trying to do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I understand. I've been involved with the State Licensing Board, so I fully understand. I really don't want to comment any further than that. I'm going to make a motion. We finished with -- we're ready for sanctions, aren't we? MR. JOSLIN : Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going one step past you, Mr. Ossorio. Mr. Drews? MR. DREWS: Could I ask a question? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. DREWS: What if after this goes through and Mr. Albertsen Page 73 March 19,2008 gets this complaint against him, if he says can I come back and correct the problem? Will you allow him to do that or -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, because he will not be able to pull a permit -- MR. DREWS: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- when we finish today. He can't correct it without a permit. MR. DREWS: Okay, thank you. MR. JOSLIN: Is that something that you would want? MR. DREWS: Not really. Because -- MR. JOSLIN: Enough said. MR. DREWS: -- there's too many mistakes made on the cage. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to make a motion in Collier County Commissioners versus Robert M. Albertsen, d/b/a Robert M. Albertsen, Incorporated, Case No. 2008-03, County License No. 28542, state certified license number CBC-125-1602, that in the order of sanctions that all permit-pulling privileges in Collier County be suspended until at such time Mr. Albertsen reappears before this board. MR. JOSLIN: And that he be referred to-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, and that recommendation be sent to state to take immediate action as they deem necessary. MR. JOSLIN: Second the motion, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? MR. HERRIMAN: Does that read that he could get his permit privileges back if he appears before the board? MR. NEALE: I think it should be that his permit-pulling privileges are suspended until he appears before the board and the board makes a finding to reinstate his permit-pulling privileges. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good point, yeah. He could come in and just waive, right? Page 74 March 19, 2008 Would you -- Cherie', would you make that change? So amended. MR. JOSLIN: I'll so amend the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) MR. HERRIMAN: Question: We cannot put a fine on this; is that right, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: No, you cannot. MR. HERRIMAN: No fine, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Legalese work. Mr. Ossorio, it just -- it pretty well sends a message. This board is sick and tired of these screen enclosure contractors and what's taken place in this county. And I'm not talking about the good guys. The good guys are not here. But it's got to stop. MR. JOSLIN: The sad part about this whole thing is we're not talking about a screen enclosure company, we're talking about someone that has a different license too, isn't it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, it's just -- MR. JOSLIN: Doesn't he have a GC license? He's got a-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Board of Collier County Commissioners, petitioner, versus Robert M. Albertsen, d/b/a Robert M. Albertsen, Incorporated. Case No. 2008-03, License No. Collier County 28544, State Certified License CBC-125-1602. Page 75 March 19,2008 Cause came before public hearing before the Contractor Licensing Board on March 19th, 2008 for the complaint filed against Robert M. Albertsen. Service of the complaint was made by certified mail in accordance with Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended. The board having heard testimony under oath received evidence and heard arguments respective to all appropriate matters thereupon issues its findings of fact, conclusions of law and order of the board. Finding of fact: One, that Robert M. Albertsen is the holder of CBC-125160 and Collier County License No. 28542. Number two, that the Board of Collier County Commissioners is the complainant in this matter. That the board had -- number three, has jurisdiction of this person were the respondent. And that Robert M. Albertsen was not present at the public hearings and was not represented by counsel. Number four, all notices required by Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105 as amended have been properly issued. And number five, the allegations of fact as set forth in the administrative complaint are approved, adopted and incorporated herein by references. Finding of fact. Conclusion of law: One, the conclusions of law alleged as set forth in the administrative complaint are approved, adopted and incorporated herein. That count number one, 4.2.2, he willfully violated the applicable building codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County. Order of the board. Based upon the foregoing findings of fact and conclusions of law, pursuant to the authority granted in Chapter 489, Florida State Statutes, and Collier County Ordinance 90-105, as amended, by a vote of six in favor and zero opposed hereby order that the following disciplinary sanction and related order are hereby imposed upon the holder of Collier County Certificate of Competency Page 76 March 19,2008 number -- or the county's No. 28542 and State Certified License CBC-125-1602, that: One, this contractor be denied all permit-pulling privileges in Collier County until at such time he appears before this board. And -- what do we say, satisfies what? How did you word that? MR. NEALE: Really, and that the board makes a finding that his privileges may be reinstated. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that the board makes a finding that his privileges be reinstated at that time. Number two, recommended to the State of Florida for them to take immediate appropriate action on his state certified license. Case is hereby closed. Mr. and Mrs. Drews, I hope this works out for you. We will do everything in our effort to help you. So we thank you for your time. At least he won't be working in Collier County for a while. At least till you're taken care of. We wish you well. MR. DREWS: Thanks again. Case No. 2008-03 -- oh, 02, excuse me. Douglas Harsanyi d/b/a CD, that's C as in Charlie, D as in David -- Pool Systems, Incorporated. Mr. Harsanyi is not present in this room. Who will be presenting the case? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing Supervisor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: It's a pleasure. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's introduce the packet, okay? MR. OSSORIO: Excellent. MR. JOSLIN: I make a motion to introduce composite Exhibit A in Case No. 2008-02 into evidence. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second, somebody? MR. LYKOS: Second. Page 77 March 19, 2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LYKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio, we're all ears. MR. OSSORIO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record again, Mike Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing Supervisor. This complaint is actually a complaint by our office, the contractor licensing office, through the office of the building review and permitting office. It's come to our attention that there's unfortunately a lot of contractors out there that are pulling permits and not getting their finals or not getting them completed. Under the statute of Florida Building Code 105, it tells you that you have to get a final C.O. being completed or the building official can make that structure be removed. With that said, this particular contractor, CD Pools, Mr. Harsanyi, we did notify him three times; two in December and one in February by certified mail. And I direct you to the exhibit on page -- Exhibit E-4. We sent that to 17050. And we also took a step further, we sent it to his personal address. And I got that through the City of Lee County (sic) and the City of I believe -- I want to say Marco Island or I want to say Sanibe1, I'm not sure which one it is. But I did receive information from the City of Lee County referencing the same issues they were having with CD Pools and the qualifier noted. I have went through the web pages, I went through the state Page 78 March 19,2008 records, I've called 4-1-1, I did the Internet search. We looked for this gentleman for many months. And not one phone call, not returned phone call, not even a signed green card. We sent him certified letter and it got returned unclaimed. With that said, the licensing department and the building review permitting department, we still have to conduct business and we still have to go ahead and provide service to these homeowners who have an open building permit on their address. This particular gentleman, Mr. Harsanyi, registered his state license with us on March 24th, 2005. He's pulled two building permits. And of those two building permits, you're going to hear testimony today that those building permits have been canceled or been with no activity, so they've been canceled or they're inactive and they need to be reactive. And we can elaborate on that. We have the permitting supervisor here to talk to you about building permits, if you have any questions about permits and about closing of permits and how do -- what does a contractor need to do, he or she need to do to go ahead and reapp. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Was work done? MR. OSSORIO: Work has been completed. With your indulgence, if there is a finding of fact pertaining to this particular contractor, if you do find him in violation of 4.2.2, which is violating the Florida Building Code 105 for not closing on his building permits, we will notify the individual homeowners to let them know that this contractor did not fulfill he or she -- the contract of completing the pools. And to the building department end, our position is, is that when a contractor pulls a building permit he's obligated to obtain a C.O. saying that yes, it is all in compliance with the code. And it's our obligation to notify these homeowners. And which we will do. And we have done that in the past. Ifwe find him in violation of 4.2.2, we'll notify these homeowners and they will get an owner/bui1der or Page 79 March 19,2008 get a new contractor to finish the work. And if Mr. Harsanyi comes forward in the next couple of months and wishes to go ahead and petition the board for reinstatement of building permit privileges, that would be fine with our office as well. We're looking for compliance. He is not a tier one contractor, so therefore there would be no state restitution through the recovery fund. He's a state certified pool contractor and they took that ability a couple of years ago. And that is my opening statement. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I just have a question of you. Of all the contractors -- of all the permits that you went through and people hadn't pulled C.O.'s, isn't it just a few that didn't come in and clear up their records? MR. JOSLIN: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or is it substantial? MR. OSSORIO: What I can tell you is that I know that through Bob Dunn's office that he's pretty well made it pretty clear that he wants us to go through all the records. And I don't know if you're familiar or not, but there's -- I would say three, 400 contractors that we've been notifying. And most of them have been working with them. And each investigator has their own numbers of who they contact. Unfortunately I am not shielded from that as well, since we are pretty well short-staffed. I do investigations, and I also call contractors of permit issues as well. And it just so happened that this particular one fell on my desk, and I'm taking care of it. For the record, you might see others as well, state certified, whatever it might be, or tier one contractors or specialty contractors. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm getting phone calls which I really don't like getting. MR. OSSORIO: Yes, I know. You and I have talked about that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But I'm telling them they don't want to Page 80 March 19,2008 come before this board, get their checkbook out. MR. OSSORIO: And to elaborate on that, but we did -- our office did an extensive search trying to find this qualifier. We went way above and beyond, and I want to make sure that is clear on the record, that we sent certified letters to his address, noted through the DDBR website. We also found out where he's actually living, and he refused for that as well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think this guy's appeared before this board. I recognize him. MR. OSSORIO: He very well might have. I'm not sure. MR. JOSLIN: I don't think so. I've been on this board too many years, long before he had his license. I'm a pool contractor also, and I've never seen him before the board. Although I know the man personally. MR. L YKOS: Michael, what's going to happen with these two projects? The pools are done. What does the homeowner have to do to get the -- MR. OSSORIO: Well, after reviewing with the supervisor for the building review and permitting, it appears that there's some issues with some final inspections and also some landscaping issues. And I don't know ifthere's any life safety issues on this particular item, but we try to be consistent how we conduct business. And a building permit needs to be closed off for these homeowners' sake, just for insurance purposes or for peace of mind. So I guess it wouldn't make a difference where they were in the building permit process, but these homeowners are going to have to come forward in the next couple of weeks and reapp. for these building permits, so that's the first step. MR. L YKOS: They have to reapply and then get the final inspections, get the C.O. inspection and then their permit can be closed down, right? MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. And the good thing about today Page 81 March 19,2008 is that we do lecture. We have A1amar Finnegan here. She's the supervisor for building and permitting. And we don't get that often here, so she's here to answer any of your questions pertaining to building permits -- MR. JOSLIN: Would you be so kind -- MR. OSSORIO: -- so with that, I'd like to go ahead and introduce you to Mrs. Finnegan. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come on down. Good morning, Ms. Finnegan. I need to have you state your name and I'll have you sworn in. MS. FINNEGAN: Good morning. My name is A1amar Finnegan, permitting supervisor for Collier County. MR. JOSLIN: A little closer to the mic. There you go. MR. OSSORIO: With that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to go ahead -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me have her sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. OSSORIO: With that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to go ahead and asks Mrs. Finnegan just a couple questions pertaining to her qualifications. Mrs. Finnegan, how long have you worked for Collier County government? MS. FINNEGAN: Twenty-five years. MR. OSSORIO: And how long have you worked as the permitting supervisor in the building review and permitting? MS. FINNEGAN: Approximately six and a half years. MR. OSSORIO: And so with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to go ahead and let the record reflect that I believe that she is an expert in permitting and the re-apping process. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I pull permits, I'm not going to disagree with her. MR. OSSORIO: And if you did disagree, then we would have to talk after the meeting, probably. Page 82 March 19, 2008 MS. FINNEGAN: Any questions or-- MR. OSSORIO: Mrs. Finnegan, on these building permits here, if you have your case in front of you, you can look at Exhibit No.6 and Exhibit No.8. Can you elaborate a little bit about these building permits and the status of these building permits relating to Building Code 105? MS. FINNEGAN: Permit No. 2006-032989, there are outstanding fees on this permit. And also the only thing that this permit lacks is a spot survey. There are no life issues. And site drainage. So that permit can be closed out with just a spot survey. But spot surveys of course cost like three or $400, and that's -- the customer's going to end up having to pay for that, for the spot survey. Spot survey just verifies setbacks and makes sure that the pool is placed in the correct location. MR. OSSORIO: And Mrs. Finnegan, what happens with a spot survey if it comes back and it's a violation of the setbacks? The homeowner's going to have to go ahead and rectify that through the variance process; am I correct? MS. FINNEGAN: That's correct. MR. OSSORIO: So there is potential for some issues pertaining to a spot survey, meaning encroachment or setback issues. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just a quick question. In my experience you didn't allow any other inspections to go forward without the spot survey. What happened here? MS. FINNEGAN: Yeah, at one time -- well, I think those are like for -- if I'm right, Bob, you may want to answer this. But I think that's like structural, like for when footers -- after the footer was poured, I think you have 10 days to provide the spot survey. In these accessories, like with the pools and stuff, they wait till you're at the final and you can't get a CO-2, you get the spot survey. In this case it's because it's a screen and the pool. Normally you have Page 83 March 19, 2008 the screen contractor that will provide the spot survey for the pool and the screen. And so like this contractor was waiting for probably the screen contractor. There's an agreement that they make that he'll provide the spot survey. And in this one we could just -- we could issue a C.O. if he paid his fees and provide us with a spot survey. We wouldn't even need to reapp. it in this one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. OSSORIO: And exhibit No.8? MS. FINNEGAN: Okay, the only thing needed on this Permit No. 2005-093313 are fees paid. If this contractor pays his fees -- there was a spot survey provided on this one. He just needs to pay his fees on this one and we can issue a C. O. MR. JOSLIN: I believe --let me just interject here for a moment, if we can. Alamar, I know that probably, oh, maybe three or four months ago you and I had a relatively nice conversation in your office, and through that conversation I was kind of amazed at the way you carried out how you're going to get all these items handled in a nice way. And in turn, there were a lot of the fees that were waived, like some of the reapp. fees that weren't going to be charged to all these contractors that had outstanding permits. Especially in the pool industry, which I'm affiliated with. I really can't believe that someone hasn't acted on your kindness to come in and take care of these items without having to go through the whole reapplication process. That can get relatively difficult, it can get expensive. And in some cases a lot of these permits that are very old that still have not been C.O.'d would be very difficult to try to go through all those motions to try to get it all handled, because sometimes the people aren't in the same home, sometimes they have sold, sometimes they have passed away, and there's many, many reasons why. Page 84 March 19,2008 So in defense of you handling all this, I think you're absolutely correct, I think any contractor with any outstanding permits or open permits should be able to come in and pay the fees that are due. They did the job. They basically failed the inspections and have to pay these reinspection fees and get the surveys. The surveys is a question I have, because in some cases, even when I contract, I allow -- I get a survey that the homeowner provides me on the initial start of a swimming pool, or installation. Because they own the home. They've gotten a survey when they originally got the home. In most cases I put that in their hands to get me a final spot survey from possibly the same survey company. Or if they want me to, I can provide that for them. But in most cases most homeowners will provide their own spot survey and result. So in some ways I think the spot survey falls more upon the homeowner, more so than the contractor, even though it is on our permit application and all of the inspection processes. How do you know feel about this? MS. FINNEGAN: You're correct, the ultimate responsibility falls on the homeowner. You have -- and we're having that problem now where homeowners were at the mercy of either the pool contractor or the screen -- or they assumed that they were going to take that responsibility, and that subcontractor didn't, so the ultimately responsibility fell back on the owner. And that's sad. But in order to close those permits, you know, we have to have a spot survey. We hate to see that those permits weren't closed out, then later they have an issue with selling the property and then have . . vanance Issues. So, I mean, that's not fair to the owner, but that's an agreement a lot of times the screen, the pool contractors make with the owners. MR. JOSLIN: Right. Would it be safe to say that they're not just pools. I mean, as far as -- we're dealing with a pool contractor here, Page 85 March 19, 2008 but there are a lot of other outstanding permits from other sections of the building industry, right? MS. FINNEGAN: Oh, you're correct. We have, like Mike said, probably three or 400. We're having -- right now we're dealing with a couple of AC contractors. You cannot believe how much money they owe us. But we're doing the best we can. We had to go back 1995 to start this, you know. And we're going to a new software, so we have to have all this cleaned up. And we're really working on it. It's hard for us, but we're doing what -- we're not making everybody -- old fees, I mean, why -- we're not asking you to reapp., we're asking you to pay those fees. I mean, that's not fair to the contractor, nor is it fair to the owner. Let's just, you know, pay the fees and you're good. MR. JOSLIN: Sure. MS. FINNEGAN: You know, we close those. And we're working. I mean, I'm really trying to work with all the subs, all the contractors in trying to get all those permits closed out, if I can. MR. JOSLIN: I understand totally. MR. L YKOS: So we've got two issues here: One is with the contractor who didn't fulfill his responsibilities according to the code. And the other is you've got some permits that need to be closed out. And it looks like from these that if the homeowner just pays the fees, one of them has to get a spot survey, they can get their permits closed out and they're done. What we really need to deal with is the contractor didn't close out his permits. MR. OSSORIO: That is correct. There's actually only one issue. We're not asking for the board for any kind of restitution or for a monetary fine. We're only asking for this contractor to pull his building permit privileges to such time that he satisfies the needs of these homeowners. Obviously under 4.2.2 it is a code violation if you don't close out Page 86 March 19,2008 your building permits and that established by the Florida Building Code 105. And so we're looking for a finding from this licensing board and to reaffirm -- for upcoming months to reaffirm these contractors who are watching on TV today that the board has made a stance that yes, if you contract with a homeowner of Collier County, City of Naples or Marco Island, it's your obligation to get a final C.O. And to do that is A, you have to pay your fees, but we're not talking about fees today, because fees will come when you get a C.O. So the numbers, it could be one, it could be 20, it could be 800. That's not what we're here today. It's that we made every opportunity to this contractor. We've sent him certified letter, we went through the web pages, we notified Lee County. And this contractor doesn't respect this licensing board or the licensing office that's saying you know what, we have to close out these building permits for Collier County . And that is a willful code violation. We gave this contractor ample time through the code, we gave him 20 days to go ahead and rectify this issue. And yeah, it's minor, it's only two building permits. But you might see something in the future with 20 or 30. And maybe it's not a spot survey, but I can tell you from experience as a licensing -- the licensing official and the licensing supervisor that that seems to be all the issues sometimes. Those spot surveys, those contractors won't call those in due to the fact that they know it's going to bridge -- it's going to have a setback issue. And that's when we get those issues. I'm sure it's not going to be this particular case. I'm not sure. But we need to be consistent how we conduct our business and be consistent when we deal with the State of Florida when we notify them about 4.2.2 of the Florida Building Code or our Ordinance 2006-41 tells us that he violated the code; we gave him time to do so. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's part of our license. You don't need to sit there and justify what you're doing. It's part of our license. If I Page 87 March 19,2008 pull a permit as a licensed contractor, I have to close that permit and get a C.O. MR. LYKOS: Yep. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So what's the difficulty here? If you don't do it then you're not performing your obligations as a contractor. And if you still refuse to do it, then you shouldn't have privileges of a contractor. MR. JOSLIN: Also under this particular case, Mr. Harsanyi, I think we're going to find that he was given total ample time. And if he's not willing to accept the fact of being -- to answer the call when he's been notified physically, then obviously he doesn't care. And these are the contractors that we want to stop. Because I'm sure that the building department is willing to work with anyone that say doesn't have the money at the moment or all the money to pay all of these. But I'm sure they're willing to work out some way to repay the amounts of certain ones at a time period where it's acceptable to the county to allow them to continue to work. But under this circumstance, it seems like this man just doesn't care. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, and they'll be sorry they didn't take advantage of the easy way out. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other discussion? MR. OSSORIO: No, I think I've said my piece. MR. NEALE: I'd just like to clarify one thing for the record. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Is this contractor a state certified contractor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. I hear a motion on the charge? MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion that in the case of Board of County Commissioners versus Douglas Harsanyi in Case No. 2008-02, that he be found guilty on Count 1 of 4.2.2, willfully violating the applicable building codes or laws of the state, city or Collier County. Page 88 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: May I have a second? MR. BOYD: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So this case, in effort for brevity here, there's no difference in this case than the last one you heard. So the same things apply, same restrictions apply. We can only deny permit-pulling privileges, and a recommendation to the state. I assume the recommendation to the state is to take appropriate action just like before. So who wants to do that one? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll do it, I don't care. MR. JOSLIN: I'll do it, I was waiting for somebody else. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I move that same case, Harsanyi, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, you got all that. That the following sanctions be hereby imposed: That permit-pulling privileges in Collier County hereby are suspended until at such time these two cases have been properly cleared and C.O.'s have been issued for both permits, and the homeowners have suffered no financia11oss. If that does not happen within a -- well, I can't do that. Okay. So period, period. Mr. Neale, should I go further? That's about all I can do, isn't it? MR. NEALE: That pretty much puts a bow on it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Number two, that this case be referred to the state to take appropriate action as they deem necessary. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second that motion. Page 89 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. L YKOS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I do the same thing on reading this again, Mr. Neale? Can I say just like I said before, but insert these numbers? MR. NEALE: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Just like I did before in the previous case, change the numbers. You can do this, can't you, Cherie'? THE COURT REPORTER: I only write what you say. MR. NEALE: But when I write the orders, I will. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. We did do administrative complaint -- or order of the board, findings of fact. And Mr. Neale will type it up, just as we did on the previous one. Thank you, Mr. Neale. Next case. We're done, aren't we? Except now you want to talk about the license fee increase statement? MR. JOSLIN: Yes, real quick. This has to do with not too many items, but one in particular that has come to my attention, anyway. Two or three months ago, looks like on the 16th of May of '07, we come (sic) up with an order which was given to the Board of Commissioners which was signed off by them and approved Page 90 March 19, 2008 increasing the fees that we charge -- or that staff charges for contractor licensing fees. In which case was approved, the increases were approved. And the question that I have was when this was done, we did this during this bad time of the contracting industry at the moment, only so that we could hopefully recover this money and these dollars to be able to provide service to the residents of Collier County with our enforcement department. And seeings as how that Mr. Bartoe is lucky enough to have been able to retire from his duties, I have found out, I guess through the grapevine and through watching the public television, that they're not going to have any opportunity to replace this man, which is going to leave in a sense our licensing investigation department another man short. And I am very much opposed to that. I would like to see something changed in that denotion (sic) where they're going to replace Mr. Bartoe with another gentleman or another investigative officer so that we can still keep the investigators out there qualified and with enough manpower to be able to handle all the complaints that have been coming in. I don't know how anyone else feels about it, but I am -- I'm a little upset that they're going to take Mr. Bartoe's spot and not replace him with another man. Because I don't think the services are going to be the same. I can see just the handwriting on the wall with all of the people that are out of work at the moment. They're going to have a lot of people out here doing work that aren't licensed, and we're going to need these investigators out here to handle the job. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's a tough one for staff to comment on, so I'll echo that I do agree. But it's unprecedented times. Over 30 years in the business, I've never seen this kind of slowdown. MR. JOSLIN: I agree. Page 91 March 19,2008 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's unprecedented in all of our lifetimes. Unfortunately it's going to cause a lot of people not to renew insurance, which they've already not renewed. So therefore they don't pull permits. That's why our staff is doing sting operations on a monthly basis, as best I can tell. I hope staff realizes what a hard effort these gentlemen put in. We could use more of them. But at the same time we just don't know how we get them because the budget constraints are so difficult. But at the same time, if there's ever an opening, they've got to replace these people quickly, because Collier County citizens are going to suffer. MR. L YKOS: Michael, are you an enterprise fund? MR. OSSORIO: We are an enterprise fund, that's correct. MR. L YKOS: So if you lose employees, you lose revenue. MR. OSSORIO: Technically if you -- I would agree with you, yes. But I also agree with you that with Bob Dunn, the building director, is that we're lucky to have him. We're also lucky to understand that he's in the position of not just looking after the contractor licensing department but he has to look at the bigger picture. And he's here today. He can maybe discuss with you what maybe his thoughts and also he can give you some insight of what -- some ways to combat what your concerns are. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd love to hear from you, Bob. MR. JOSLIN: So would 1. MR. DUNN: Good morning. Bob Dunn, Interim Building Director for Collier County, Florida. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I thought it was permanent. MR. DUNN: Not yet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, okay. Unfortunately it's not. Page 92 March 19,2008 (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. DUNN: Well, staffing. Contractor licensing is a very important arm of the building department. I'm with Michael every day working on cases and issues. His staff is -- as you know, they do a heck ofajob, and I'm very proud to have them working with my department. We've had, you know, a reduction enforce. Our staffing, you know, is -- everybody's had to pick up their workload to keep up with the permitting and the inspections. The inspection department -- every area within my division has lost personnel. Through retirement now we're losing Tom Bartoe, who was a great asset. I've guaranteed contractor licensing that he will have support. We have inspectors that can fill positions ifhe loses another person. Or if we have vacations in his department, we can substitute with inspectors. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, good. MR. DUNN: We have one inspection area, mechanical plumbing or electrical or building that is -- you know, inspections are down. You know we can move people around. He will have support from my department, I guarantee you that. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. That was my main concern. MR. DUNN: Well, he is -- his department is doing -- you know, they're stepping up, they're going after these contractors that haven't been paying fees and closing out permits. You know, it's an additional duty and we're very happy to await, you know, what his outcome. And you heard the case today and that was a benefit of being able to close out these permits. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The other problem we're seeing a lot of, Bob, is so many people are not renewing insurance and they're therefore working without permits. MR. DUNN: Exactly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a terrible problem. Page 93 March 19,2008 MR. DUNN: Exactly. And we will man Naples and Marco as required. I mean -- and Collier County residents, they can rest assured that we're going to be out there. We have inspectors out in the field all day in all the zones and all the quadrants. And if there's issues that we're going to have to address with our inspectors, with contractor licensing or with the fire districts, we will be doing that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is there any way to do a story, say with the News Press -- News Press, that's Fort Myers -- but Naples Daily News, something in that area that because of the slowdown and the difficulty a lot of people are working without permits. And get the public aware to start watching for these permits. Because it means that they're probably dealing with an uninsured contractor. MR. DUNN: I believe that's the right approach. We need to have public awareness. Public awareness is something, you know, we need to step up on. And it's the times, you know, it's the right time to start that process. MR. JOSLIN: For sure, yeah. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to just elaborate on that. It's ironic that you mention that, because I was just talking to -- not only that we deal with the building official of Collier County, we deal with the building official of two different cities, City of Marco Island, City of Naples. We have an interloca1 agreement. And one of the things that Paul Bollenback said to me is that he's never seen it so bad with unpermitted work. I can tell you, rest assured, that Allen Kennette, the investigator for the City of Naples, we issued 25 citation for unlicensed activity last month. That's a lot compared to what you have to do to get the citation, on the job site, investigations and the conclusions of it. And not only that we provide service for unlicensed activity, but we do all the stop work orders almost for the City of Naples for unpermitted work. Because like I said before, if you're going to issue red tag for unpermitted work, what are we going to look for? Workers' Page 94 March 19,2008 compo insurance, license and liability. And if you are a contractor and you don't carry workers' comp, you can't get a building permit. So you work without it. So we're seeing that trend in the cities. And hopefully we're going to get more eyes out in the field like Bob alluded to earlier. We're going to get a couple of building inspectors out there. So if they're only doing 10 or 15 or nine inspections per day, we can train them and they can be our eyes and ears out there. And we can have not just -- maybe we're down 25 percent, but maybe if we had three or four others out there, that might just go ahead and push the issue where we need to be. MR. JOSLIN: Are they also going to have the ability to issue citations if they find something incorrectly being done? Or -- MR. OSSORIO: We've talked about that. And Bob and I are going to be sitting down and we're going to look at a procedure and also training. Obviously I'll probably be giving the training to -- I don't want to have a building inspector look at 4.1 for misconduct as a licensed contractor. I think the building inspections department and the building inspector really should be looking at code issues, not quality issues. MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. OSSORIO: I think there should be a really big difference. But for unlicensed activity, I think the more out there, the better we're going to be. And they do have the authority to do so under the Florida Building Code and also under our ordinance as well. MR. JOSLIN: So is this inspectors that's going to act per se as a partial licensing officer? Is he going to be -- after he's trained is he going to be as suitable to do a complete job for a long period of time, or is this going to be just a temporary fix while we're looking for someone else to take a permanent spot, or -- I'm just a little concerned that we're not really focusing on things that are really going to be effective here. Page 95 March 19,2008 MR. OSSORIO: I think that at the end of the year when we do our renewing in September, we're going to come -- we're going to have a good grasp where we are money-wise, where we need to be, what we bring to the table to the building department itself. And then Bob will probably make that decision, ifhe feels like we need to have a temporary person from the building department work there, you know, maybe three days a week and the other two days he's doing inspections, or vice versa, whatever it is. But I think this whole year is a learning curve for us. Most of the times in the past is that we've brought in all this money, but the building department was bringing their own in. And so maybe the scales have tipped a little bit. And I think by September of '08 we should know where we are. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And at the same time, you can put an end to this problem with the people that you have. Because you've got inspectors out there that admittedly they have more time to be on jobs. And believe me, contractors all know that, because they're spending more time on jobs than we were used to seeing. MR. DUNN: That's a good thing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's a good thing, yeah, but also they're going to find something. It's kind of like okay, what am I going to leave for them to find now so they'll stop. But they're driving every street in this county. If they're driving down the street and they see something going on at a house, they've got a laptop, they can sit there and see. They don't have to get out of their truck to see if that job is permitted. This could stop overnight with the people that you have. They don't have to be an enforcement officer, but just report when there's an unpermitted job. MR. DUNN: I agree. We have the tools and the ability and the inspectors. A lot of them are licensed contractors. You know, they were in the contracting field. We have air conditioning contractors that Page 96 March 19,2008 are doing inspections now, they've been trained as inspectors so they know. They know permit requirements, and they're a great asset. And now since times that we have less inspections it's a perfect opportunity for them to team up with Michael's department and, you know, show support. But I've already addressed that issue with the chiefs, and it's going to happen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because the ones of us that have the insurance -- believe me, my insurance is killing me. MR. DUNN: Sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because times are tough. I wish it wasn't there. But I can't operate without it. So when I've got a competitor out here working and I know he doesn't have insurance, just absolutely -- I mean, it's not tolerable. MR. DUNN: Well, our office is very proactive, and we're going to be cross-training a lot of areas in the building department. Now with plan reviews and inspectors, we have inspectors that are slow, they can come in and help with the plan reviews. I mean, there's just all kinds of avenues. In Alamar's area where she's cross-training folks and from other areas that she has, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why is it taking longer to get permits out? MR. DUNN: Well, we still have express permits and they should be issued the same day. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I fee11ike there's more people looking at permits than they used to. MR. DUNN: Well, ifthere's any -- you know, my office, I have an open door policy. And feel free to stop in and meet with me anytime or call me. You know, that's the way I like to treat the citizens and the residents and the contractors. And I get calls all day long, and if you have an issue or you have a question about services that we're providing in contractor licensing Page 97 March 19,2008 or any department, just feel free to contact me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need to talk to you after the meeting. The hurricane retrofit changed yesterday. MR. DUNN: Great. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wait till you see it. MR. DUNN: Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: Thank you much. I appreciate your comments. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, Bob, appreciate it. MR. OSSORlO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to elaborate what Bob Dunn just said. The only thing I'm concerned about is what you call the sticky note syndrome. And that's exactly why we have a policy and procedure in place now when the chiefs or any other who want to make an internal complaint, there's a process for it. So I don't walk in my desk and have 15 different sticky notes laying on my desk about 14 different addresses, then I have to separate those three and try to find out how best to serve. So there is a policy and procedure in place. Not only with our department internally but also with the fire districts as well. So we're working with that as well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I appreciate what you do. We just know it's a major problem, that's why it concerns us so much. MR. JOSLIN: I see it out there every day, and I'm just concerned that it's going to get worse as time goes on, if the market doesn't change. That's all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's not going to get -- well, I'm all positive. MR. JOSLIN: Well, I want to be, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have anything else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion to -- well, before we adjourn, thank you for coming on board. Page 98 March 19,2008 MR. L YKOS: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Appreciate you having -- we have an opening for an air conditioning contractor. David Goodenough would be perfect. He got away before I could talk to him. So if anybody runs into him, we need an air conditioning contractor on this board. MR. JOSLIN: Michael Ossorio got him here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, Michael? MR. JOSLIN: Maybe Michael can call him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: David would be good. I've known him for a long, long time. MR. OSSORlO: David's not the qualifier of the company. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, his wife does, that's right. I forgot. Yeah. Well, get her. She's sharp, too. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. Thank you Cherie'. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:04 p.m. CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, Chairman These minutes approved by the board on presented or as corrected as Page 99