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Agenda 11/10/2025 Item # 2A (October 14, 2025 BCC Minutes)October 14, 2025 Page 1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida October 14, 2025 LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present: Chairman: Burt L. Saunders Dan Kowal Chris Hall Rick LoCastro William L. McDaniel, Jr. ALSO PRESENT: Amy Patterson, County Manager Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations Page 13 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 2 MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning. The meeting of the County Commission will come to order. We're going to start off, as always, with an invocation, and we're pleased today to have Pastor Glen Wiggins from the Seagate Baptist Church to lead us in the prayer. And following -- immediately following that, we'll have -- Kim Treadwill will lead us in the -- did I say that incorrectly? I'm sorry. Mimi Treadway, I'm sorry. I was reading something else. I apologize. Mimi Treadway will lead us in the Pledge. So if you'll please rise. Item #1A INVOCATION GIVEN BY GLENN WIGGINS – SEAGATE BAPTIST CHURCH; PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE GIVEN BY MIMI TREADWAY – VETERANS DONATION CARDS PROJECT PASTOR WIGGINS: Let's pray together. Our Father and our God, we thank you for this day you've given us, another day to serve you, another day for these on the Commission to serve you and the people of Collier County here in our beautiful city of Naples and the great state of Florida. What I pray today, that you would grant these leaders wisdom as they make decisions that will impact the citizens of this community. I ask that you bless each person and authority and this council; would you enlarge their influence for good and please, Dear God, place a protective shield around them and their families. May everything that's said and done in this meeting be guided by your divine hand and empowered by your presence. What I was thinking about, Benjamin Franklin once said during the Continental Congress, "If a bird cannot fall to the ground without Page 14 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 3 your notice, how can a nation rise without your aid?" So, Dear God, I pray you guide these men, and I pray that your hand would be upon them, direct their steps, their thoughts, their words, that all might be done for the good of this community and for the glory of God. Lord, I want to thank you this morning for salvation that's available in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. We pray all this in the name which is above every name, the name of Jesus. Amen. I want to thank all of you commissioners in a great way and for all you've done and thank you for allowing me to just -- you said I could say something I like, and I want you to know we pray for each and every one of you on a weekly basis, and we appreciate what's going on. There's a great resurgence of faith coming back into communities. Of course, we've seen that, of course yesterday, with the historic peace deal that was brokered over in the Middle East, and I just thank the Lord for what's going on and thank the Lord for you men as well and pray for you and all those who serve our great county. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can it be a daily basis instead of weekly? We might need it. We need daily. PASTOR WIGGINS: For you, yes. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll take it. I'll take it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Treadway. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Pastor, make no mistake, they all need it. I know stuff you don't. They all need it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mimi has been sending cards to veterans for many, many years, and I want her to spend a few minutes talking about what she does. MS. TREADWAY: Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Page 15 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 4 My daughter started this program. She's a United States Air Force veteran. She started this program after-two-and-a-half-plus years at James Haley VA. She became a quadriplegic from an accident. Renee's project was done in our home, basically. We asked for donated cards, and we sent them to several thousands of veterans in VA hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics, and extras to the hospitals. And, like, Cape Coral, we'll take gobs over there, and they pass them out to everyone. This project was born because Renee was a master yoga instructor, and she was also a meditation trainer. Becoming a quadriplegic, her life, she thought, was over. She kept asking me, what's my -- what's -- what's my, "What do I do with the rest of my life, Mom?" Finally I said, "That is up to you." That's when she began with this project, Mission: Christmas cards for veterans: VA hospitals, nursing homes, clinics. Right now we're looking at doing 10 states. The VA -- unfortunately, my daughter passed away December 25th, 2023, and -- two weeks after she mailed out 11,000 cards. Of course, she was very computer literate. The VA -- I love the VA. They treated her like gold. They gave her everything she needed to be able to function like a normal person. She was mind over body, very intelligent. So anyway, the VFW auxiliary, Post 7721 in Naples, took over this project in honor and memory of Renee. And I couldn't be happier. And I know Renee, in heaven, is probably just so tickled that we continued her program to go on. So hopefully this is -- I know I don't have time to talk about a lot of it, but it is a very emotional story. And I have some handouts, and they will be outside, and it will explain Renee's complete history. And this last one was honoring a legacy in her name. And the next Page 16 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 5 page tells things -- how we progressed and how we do this project. Thank you, Lois Bolin, for inviting me, and thank you to all the commissioners for allowing me to be here. It's been quite an honor. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And before you leave the podium there, I think she's being a little bit modest. Their goal is to send out 30,000 cards this year. And I go over to the VFW occasionally, and she'll be sitting there at a table filling out cards. When do you start that process each year? Do you start -- MS. TREADWAY: This is year two for the VFW, and Renee did it for five years prior. So this is year two for the VFW. Last year I think we got around 20-some thousand out. This year we're looking at hopefully 30,000 cards. The cards are donated. We had to switch our process a little bit to stamping the inside because writing in the inside was just not going to work. So then with the schoolchildren, adults, any group in the area that wants to write index card, this is the last -- this is the last process. They're inserted in the middle. They're closed and sealed with "In memory of Renee Whisner." And most of the hospitals know her very, very well. She was at James Haley for years on and off, and she was in Naples hospital years and years, you know, on and off as a quadriplegic would normally be. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, thank you very much for what you do. MS. TREADWAY: Thank you so much. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson. Item #2A APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT, AND SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX-PARTE DISCLOSURE Page 17 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 6 PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT AGENDA.) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, agenda changes for October 14th, 2025. First up we have Item 10A to be heard after the proclamations. This is a request that the Board adopt a resolution expressing support for designating October 14th, 2025, as the National Day of Remembrance for Charlie Kirk. Couple of agenda notes. A revised interlocal agreement for Item 11H was added after the agenda was initially published. A scrivener's error was found in the purchase contract for Item 11B, Section 2.01. Instead of stating "paid to Seller to Purchaser," it should state, "paid to Seller by Purchaser." Time-certain items. As earlier noted, Item 10A will be heard directly after the proclamations. Item 11C will be heard at 10 a.m. This is consideration to direct the Zoning director to sign the Florida Housing Finance Corporation local government verification. And Items 8A and 9A to be heard at 1 p.m. This is the Costco zoning resolution waiver of minimum separation between fuel pump facilities and Hacienda Lakes MPUD amendment to change the PUD. We have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and again at 2:50. With that, County Attorney. MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing. Thank you. MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no changes, and I have one ex parte, I think 17B, on the summary agenda. Other than that, Page 18 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 7 nothing. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. I have no changes to the agenda. I do have correspondence and calls on Summary Agenda 17B. And with that, I would like to just make a comment. I'm not going to oppose this at all, but I do want to make a comment regarding where we're moving in the future just -- just because I can't talk to you-all without being in the public. Three years ago rents were outrageous in this county. And, you know, several of us ran on workforce housing and really felt like affordable housing was a noble cause. And so we -- with good intentions, we've drudged forward with that affordable housing agenda and made some changes to our Growth Management Plan and increased some densities and tried to make it easy -- easier for people to -- for developers to build affordable housing. However, in the beginning, I always said that capitalism always works. You know, prices rise. Prices fall. And in 2023 and 2021 -- or 2020 to 2023, we didn't have the crystal ball, so we didn't know what kind of market cap -- you know, what kind of capitalism or market corrections might happen. But in going towards smart growth, I don't want to be blinded as well, because even with the good intentions of providing affordable housing, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. So I just want to bring some awareness of where the market is right now with rents. And I want to just caution us that we don't just go forward blindly approving projects with a small portion of affordable housing that increases density unnecessarily. And the reason why I say that is, since 2023, in the last three years, we have approved 37 different zoning actions for housing. Nineteen of those have had an affordable housing component. So overall, we've approved 8,817 units of which 3,032 had an affordability component Page 19 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 8 to that. That's 34 percent. The market-rate rents on our -- on our income limits for our affordability chart, at 100 percent AMI -- which we usually stick somewhere between 80 and 120 is where our ranges fall. At the 100 percent, a two-bedroom house, the cap is $2,557 per month. At the 80 percent mark, it's 2,046. And in doing some market research, there's over 600 and -- today, currently, there's only -- there's over 600 units at less than $2,247. $2,147 is one of the averages that we show in Collier County for a two-bedroom apartment for rent, which another study shows it's anywhere from 1,600 to that 2,200. But the point is, there's a lot of units out there for rent that are cheaper than the market cap that we set on the affordability rates. And the reason why I bring this up is just so we don't get duped into increasing density unnecessarily thinking that we're helping the workforce when, in actuality, the market's already surpassed our abilities or what we've set up as what we thought would be good. And I just wanted to bring that up so that we don't increase density thinking we're doing one thing when the market's already allowing us the results that we desire anyway. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you for that information. It's very helpful. It certainly should give us some guidance as we go forward on these. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning, sir. I have no changes, and on 17B, also disclosures on meetings, emails, and calls. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I have no changes and no ex parte on summary or consent. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have no changes. I do have some Page 20 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 9 ex parte on Item 17B. With that, we'll need a motion to approve the agenda and consent agenda as amended. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved. COMMISSIONER HALL: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and second. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. Page 21 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 10 Item #2B, 2C, 2D & 2E BCC BUDGET MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 4, 2025, AND SEPTEMBER 18, 2025, REGULAR MINUTES FOR JUNE 24, 2025, SEPTEMBER 9, 2025 We have the minutes from the September 4, 2025, meeting; we have the minutes from the June 24, 2025, meeting; and the minutes from September 9th, 2025, and September 18, 2025. Are there any questions or comments on any of those minutes? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Make a motion for approval. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a second. The motion is to approve all of the minutes that I just outlined. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. We'll move on to proclamations. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Item #4A PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 2025 AS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AWARENESS MONTH IN COLLIER Page 22 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 11 COUNTY. TO BE ACCEPTED BY LINDA OBERHAUS, CEO, THE SHELTER FOR ABUSED WOMEN & CHILDREN. MOTION TO ADOPT BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - ADOPTED Item 4A is a proclamation designating October 2025 as Domestic Violence Awareness Month in Collier County. To be accepted by Linda Oberhaus, CEO, the Shelter for Abused Women and Children. Congratulations. (Applause.) MS. OBERHAUS: Good morning. I'd like to thank Commissioner Saunders and members of the Board of County Commissioners for recognizing National Domestic Violence Awareness Month. I've put a card at each of your places so you can see, here in Collier County, last year there were 1,572 calls to 911 as a result of domestic violence. And if you look on the other side of that card, it's estimated that it's costing our community more than $38 million in medical, law enforcement, and to our local businesses. Domestic violence is an epidemic both across our nation and here in our community with one in three women experiencing domestic violence during their lifetime and one in five teens experiencing domestic violence as well. We're deeply grateful for the many partnerships that make our lifesaving work possible, including our local hospitals, local law enforcement agencies, the Clerk's Office, and our State Attorney's Office. Together, we're helping survivors find safety, hope, and healing. For more information about the events we'll be doing during October for National Domestic Violence Awareness Month, the community can visit our website at naplesshelter.org. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, and thank you for Page 23 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 12 everything you do. MS. OBERHAUS: Appreciate it. (Applause.) Item #4B PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 2025 AS CHILDHOOD CANCER AWARENESS MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY. TO BE ACCEPTED BY DARREN NIEVES, PRESIDENT & CEO, MINDS OVER TUMORS – MOTION TO ADOPT BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - ADOPTED MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating October 2025 as Childhood Cancer Awareness Month in Collier County. To be accepted by Darren Nievis, president and CEO, Minds Over Tumors. Congratulations. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Man, you're a rock star. Congratulations. MR. NIEVES: Good morning, Commissioners. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Darren, I just want to say something before you speak. Right here. Right here. Over here. MR. NIEVES: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Listen, this young man reached out to me really -- and all of us. And in the spirit of we're about to present something in remembrance of Charlie Kirk, you're following in those same footsteps. This young man has done more in his short lifetime than maybe all of us in this room, you'd say, almost together. Page 24 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 13 You know, Google him. He is an incredible inspirational person that took on a challenge and has had some issues but has turned it into a real positive. And so what you're about to hear out of his mouth and this proclamation that we gave today is all his efforts. And look at -- look at this young man. This is the future of our country right here. So I couldn't be more proud of you. Couldn't be more proud of you. MR. NIEVES: I appreciate it. Thank you. (Applause.) MR. NIEVES: Good morning. And, really, thank you, Commissioner LoCastro, for making this happen, and all of you. As most of you know, Childhood Cancer Awareness Month is the previous month of September, but it means more than just a month. No child should have to bear to deal with the cost and a critical illness, and I believe it's something that needs to be recognized past September, past October, and forever. I'm the president/CEO of an organization called Minds Over Tumors that works directly with children here in Southwest Florida diagnosed with brain tumors, and it really started because of my oldest sister -- and she's sitting actually here in the second row -- and her battle with a brain tumor about four years ago. And you could talk about a struggle for my family, but we're really past that, and we're at the point where we're helping other families. And I've been extremely blessed to be able to raise a little bit over $45,000 so far in really the last three months to be able to put forth our mission. And I really appreciate everything you guys do for the families in Collier County and all the non-profits that allow us to operate efficiently. This is only the start, like you said, and we're looking forward to closing this year at a six-figure year and really start helping out some families. And it is a blessing to be able to do this every day and wake Page 25 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 14 up and come to things like this. And I'm really appreciative for all of your support. And you can find more information at mindsovertumors.org. So once again, I really appreciate it, and thank you all for your time. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, I guess we'll take a motion on the proclamations and then go to Item 10A? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we need a motion to approve the proclamations. COMMISSIONER HALL: I move to approve those proclamations. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and one amen and one second. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. Then we move on to Item 10A. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: When he says he's the president and CEO, you Google this young man. He's got pictures with famous people, and he's been all over the place. So it's a real company. And I have no doubt you're going to hit six figures and more. Page 26 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 15 MR. NIEVES: Thank you. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So congratulations. Item #10A RESOLUTION 2025-218: A RESOLUTION EXPRESSING SUPPORT FOR DESIGNATING OCTOBER 14, 2025, AS THE “NATIONAL DAY OF REMEMBRANCE FOR CHARLIE KIRK.” – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 10A. This is a request that the Board adopt a resolution expressing support for designating October 14th, 2025, as a National Day of Remembrance for Charlie Kirk. This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner Kowal. And once we hear this item, Commissioner Kowal has made a request. He has someone that is going to speak after you've heard the item. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. And if it would be okay, I know there's a couple other people here associated with the Turning Point Organization, and maybe they can get a picture with the resolution at the end. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Kowal -- Commissioner Kowal, did you have some individual to receive the -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I'm sorry. Do you want to read it or -- first? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's entirely up to you. If you Page 27 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 16 want -- if you want to read it, that's fine, or Ms. Patterson can read it, if that's your request. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, I could read it if I actually had a copy of it. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I'm sorry. MS. PATTERSON: That's okay. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have it. MS. PATTERSON: You caught me off guard. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't know if I'm capable of reading it. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I feel bad now because I didn't bring my copy. MS. PATTERSON: No, it's my fault for not thinking that I was going to read it. I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, you have a copy of it so you can read it? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm reading it right here on our agenda, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But you'll need to read it out loud. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I will read it out loud. Whereas, Charlie Kirk was a champion of free speech, civil dialogue, and faith; and, Whereas, Mr. Kirk consistently promoted the values of individual liberty, open debate, and importance of civil engagement and the defense of constitutional principles; and, Whereas, Charlie Kirk was recognized as one of the leading -- excuse me -- leading voices among young leaders in these United States creating opportunities for civic education, fostering youth leadership, and promoting principles of liberty and democracy across the United States; and, Whereas, Mr. Kirk founded and served as the executive director Page 28 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 17 of Turning Point USA, a non-profit organization of chapters across the United States dedicated to educating students about the principles of freedom, free markets, and limited government; and, Whereas, Charlie Kirk authorized [sic] multiple national best-selling books that engaged readers in critical conversations about civics, culture, and the United States of America, the future of the United States of America; and, Whereas, through his writings, public speaking, and media presence, Charlie Kirk reached millions of Americans and inspired a generation of young people to participate in civic life and leadership; and, Whereas, Mr. Kirk's outreach in programs brought many young people into the civic arena who otherwise might not have engaged, including students who credit his work with motivating them to form campus organizations, pursue public service, and study civics more deeply; and, Whereas, since his assassination on September 10th -- excuse me -- 2025, there has been a notable surge of interest in applications to establish Turning Point chapters and similar programs on college campuses reflecting his continuing influence on youth civic engagement; and, Whereas, Mr. Kirk was widely appreciated for restoring vigorous debate on college campuses and, in public life, reminding Americans that disagreements should not preclude conversation and encouraging citizens to consider differing -- differing perspectives in good faith; and, Whereas, although frequently associated with political debate, Mr. Kirk grounded his public work and moral convictions that he placed above partisanship. Those convictions guided his public advocacy and steered his approach to debate and civic education; and, Page 29 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 18 Whereas, October 14th, today, is Mr. Kirk's birthday provided an appropriate opportunity for citizens and institutions to commemorate his life and the civic values he advanced. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that joins the -- No. 1, the Board joins in support of a resolution and designates October 14th as the National Day of Remembrance for Charlie Kirk; Number 2, the Board recognizes Charlie Kirk for his contributions to civic education, public discourse, youth leadership, and moral advocacy. The Board encourages educational institutions, civic organizations, and citizens within Collier County and these United States to observe this day with appropriate programs, activities, prayers, and ceremonies that promote civic engagement, respectful debate, and the principles of faith, liberty, and democracy that Mr. Kirk championed. The Board commends the work of student leaders and civic organizations who continue to advance the practices of open debate and moral-based civic engagements that Mr. Kirk promoted. This resolution dated by the majority vote, hopefully today. Signed Commissioner Saunders as Chairman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal, there are probably several people that may want to speak on this, which is appropriate. Do you have some comments before we open it up? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just wanted to, really quick, just -- this was brought to my -- I mean, I had multiple, multiple people reaching out, and just asking -- you know, because it was such a tragedy that day, you know, what everybody witnessed, and the amount of people that Mr. Kirk, you know, reached out to and touched through his -- is just communication, basically. Just, you know, his opinions, and especially with our future, which is our young people today and on our college campuses and different places Page 30 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 19 where he would go speak. And he was just -- he would let people speak. And if you ever watch -- you get the opportunity to watch some of these videos, and he would just be fact based. You know, he would bring up facts. He'd tell them, you know, his opinion about the facts and where they lie, and you would see in some of these people's faces how they just realized they've been being duped by, you know, the people they trust. And it set -- you can see in their faces that they realized that maybe it's time to start looking at all sides of a subject, do your own research, and be your own person. Just don't be led down the street blindly just because somebody tells you they have an MBA or a, you know, master's degree in something, whatever, or they're a professor of some high-ranking college, that they're always right. You know, everybody has their own opinion about something, and the most educated person is a person who is willing to look into anything on their own first and see the facts that lie out there that sometimes are overlooked. And I think he just -- he motivated people to think on their own, and I think that was the biggest thing I saw that Mr. Kirk did on a daily basis. You know, these young people, they're very -- they're like clay. They get molded very easily and duped into thinking certain things one way or the other. And it's on all sides. I'm not trying to make this, you know, one-sided. But reality is that that's so important that our youth today stop, take a deep breath, and look at everything they've got to deal with in life through their eyes and not through another person's eyes and truly do their own research in life, because then they come to a better conclusion, I believe, at the end of the day. So I think Mr. Kirk was something that was out there that we haven't seen in a long time. And the sad part, he died because of his Page 31 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 20 opinions. And, you know, that's -- I think we lost a treasure moving forward with his thoughts and his ability to communicate, especially on that level with people -- you know what it's like nowadays with our youth to communicate. You know, it's hard. But he had the ability to do it in an open forum, and I think that's very special. I've got an individual here today, Alex. He's standing over here. Alex, why don't you come up to the podium and kind of introduce yourself and tell you what -- your relationship with Mr. Kirk, and I've got several other people in the audience who are associated with the Turning Point. But I think we're going to try to do a picture at the end if that's okay. I'll let Alexander speak. Thank you, Alex. MR. SCHNEIDER: Thank you, Dan Kowal, for inviting me. Super important. Good morning. My name is Alex Schneider. I'm a dedicated conservative voice in our community. As a former Turning Point action administrator for their Chase the Vote program up in Wisconsin, I focused on mobilizing voters to secure a victory for President Trump. We gather in grief over the assassination of Charlie Kirk, a key voice in our movement and a personal mentor to me. Charlie and I shared a deep bond professionally through my work with Turning Point where he guided me in grassroots activism and voter outreach, and personally, as he inspired me to dive deeper into politics and amplify conservative values. Charlie wasn't just an activist. He was a devoted father, loving husband, and mentor to countless other young patriots like myself. We've seen the fire ignited with over 120,000 college and high school chapter applications nationwide in the recent weeks, a testament to the passion he inspired. Now is a time to rise up not with violence but with words, speak up boldly, use your voice at the Page 32 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 21 ballot box, and honor Charlie by doubling down on our principles. I encourage each and every one of you to get involved with Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action at tpusa.com. Together we carry Charlie's torch forward. We are Charlie Kirk. God bless you guys. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Alex. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Alex. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, anybody else registered to speak? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I only had Alex, actually, as a registered speaker. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: If we can do a picture. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely. Anybody else that you want to have come up? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to make a motion -- MS. PATTERSON: Motion to accept the -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Let's make a motion for -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Dan, you make it. You go ahead and make it. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I make a motion to accept the resolution. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll give another amen. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. Page 33 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 22 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You're another rock star, man. Keep going. Keep going. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There were some other folks that were going to come up. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: She waved it off. She's fine. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What do you mean you waved it off? You don't get a wave-off. (Applause.) Item #7 PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Items 7, which is public comments. MR. MILLER: We have two registered speakers for this item. Your first speaker is Jay Kohlhagen. He'll be followed by Garrett FX Beyrent. MR. KOHLHAGEN: Jay Kohlhagen, for the record, 34112. And doing nothing is something I won't do. I'm here today to speak on this stopping of the aerial blanket spraying of Dibrom into Collier County, the Collier County movement here. On Tuesday, October 28th, many concerned residents will attend the Collier County Mosquito Control meeting to speak out against this aerial blanket spraying of Dibrom. What I mean by "aerial Page 34 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 23 spraying" is what they do going back and forth hundreds of times. I'm against that. Dibrom is known -- a known toxin that threatens human health, wildlife, and pollinators. Miami-Dade County, which operates one of the largest mosquito control programs in the country, has not used aerial Dibrom spraying since 2016. And the entire European Union has banned Dibrom due to its health risk. So when you spell Dibrom backwards, it literally reads "morbid." They don't even try to hide it. We're not asking to stop mosquito control. We're asking to modernize it. Use targeted larvicide, new technologies, and focus responsive -- responsible methods to protect the people, animals, and the environment. We do not consent to neurotoxins raining down over our homes, gardens, and chicken coops. We cannot control -- we can control mosquitoes without being carpet bombed with toxins from the sky. Let's do this right. Let's be a little more like Miami-Dade by ending this aerial assault. Amen. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Another amen. MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker for this item is Garrett FX Beyrent. MR. BEYRENT: Good morning, everybody. Thank you for letting me speak today. I want to, first of all, thank Troy Miller. He's the guy that actually converted what -- I didn't even know what this thing was. It's a thumb drive. I went to Walgreens. I said, "I need a thumb drive. What does that look like?" "Sort of like your thumb" is what the lady told me. I said I want to transfer some pictures of Mildred Hernandez, who I am -- actually I am representing today. Mildred Hernandez is a gopher tortoise. Now, gopher tortoises are upland species. They provide homes Page 35 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 24 for all kinds of other animals. Unfortunately, in the development business that I was in for 50, 60 years -- I forget the number because I'm getting old. But the bottom line is is that many developments bury their gopher tortoises if the gopher tortoises aren't discovered and marked by the agencies responsible for that. And once the agencies leave, nobody knows what's happening to the gopher tortoises. Now, gopher tortoises moved up the species of special concern. I was working on them getting to be protected like eagles were. They're, like, very valuable to the environment because they provide homes for six other species. The rattlesnakes and now the rainbow snake, they're all occupying tortoise burrows that are down in the ground. And the bottom line is, developers are still running them over and still burying them. And when I first came here, we could actually bury our gopher tortoises. And I said, "Well, what happens if you bury them and they come up and there's a parking lot above them and they can't get out?" "Oh, they'll figure a way. They'll just dig their way out." And they're being buried alive, and they're not being protected. And there's many developments that are coming up now that are high-density developments that are paving over virtually everything they can. And so in the future when projects come in front of you, this is -- the other -- the slide -- I don't know how to do the other pictures here. Have we only got one? MR. MILLER: There was only the one. MR. BEYRENT: There's only one. No kidding? So they didn't get Mildred Hernandez. That's -- if you see in the center of that picture, that's Mildred -- oh, there you go. This is an interesting one. This is a 97-year-old reptile hatches four babies, becomes the oldest Page 36 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 25 first-time mom of her species. She's a gopher tortoise. She lived in Florida till she was 40 years old, and somebody in Florida sold her to a Philadelphia zoo. And she lived -- well, she's 97 now, has four babies. They're more important than we are. If you look at their -- the species of us, we don't usually live to be 97 years old and have babies. So I want everybody out there to be specially concerned about the species of the gopher tortoise. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. COMMISSIONER HALL: You should have named her Sarah. MR. BEYRENT: Why? COMMISSIONER HALL: Sarah had a baby when she was old. Read your Bible there. MR. BEYRENT: You're bringing up the Bible. I got it now. I've got to read that book some day. It wasn't in my cellblock. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You better start. You're getting old, like you said. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It was in there. They used to hand them out. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller. That's all? All right. Item #5A ANN MCLAUGHLIN ARTS – OCTOBER ARTIST OF THE MONTH – PRESENTED MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, before we move along, let's turn our attention to the back of the room for the Artist of the Month. The October Artist of the Month is Anne McLaughlin, executive director of the Collier County Metropolitan Planning Page 37 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 26 Organization. She has a BA in art studio and an MA in architecture from the University of New Mexico. Since moving to Collier County 10 years ago, Ms. McLaughlin has exhibited her art in various invitational shows and currently has two paintings on display at the Kapnick Hall at the Naples Botanical Garden. Anne is inspired by lush vegetation, abundant greenery, and bold bright flowers growing in profusion here in Southwest Florida. Recently, she's discovered the creative possibilities of digital art and is having fun experimenting with what she sees as a contemporary take on an ancient technology involved in print-making. With that, Commissioners, since we have a 10 o'clock time-certain, maybe we can take a couple of our regular agenda items ahead of that while we wait. Item #11A RESOLUTION 2025-219: A RESOLUTION REPEALING AND REPLACING RESOLUTION NO. 2023-135, AS AMENDED BY RESOLUTION 2024-212, BY MODIFYING THE UTILITY PROJECT A-1 DESCRIPTION SET FORTH ON EXHIBIT A TO ADD THE NORTHEAST INTERIM FACILITIES PROGRAM AND WASTEWATER REGIONAL TREATMENT PLANT EXPANSION PROJECTS AS ELIGIBLE PROJECTS TO BE FINANCED WITH A LOAN UNDER THE FLORIDA LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE COMMISSION'S POOLED COMMERCIAL PAPER LOAN PROGRAM, AND INCREASING AND AUTHORIZING THE BORROWING OF A NOT TO EXCEED PRINCIPAL AMOUNT OF $50,000,000 TO $200,000,000. THIS LOAN IS SECURED BY A SUBORDINATE PLEDGE OF AND LIEN ON THE NET REVENUES OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY Page 38 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 27 SYSTEM IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT AND AS PROVIDED IN THE RESOLUTION APPROVING SUCH LOAN; AUTHORIZE EXECUTION OF THE LOAN NOTE OR LOAN NOTES TO EVIDENCE SUCH BORROWING; AUTHORIZE THE EXECUTION AND DELIVERY OF OTHER SUCH DOCUMENTS AS MAY BE NECESSARY TO EFFECT SUCH BORROWING; AND AUTHORIZE ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS. (CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON, DIVISION DIRECTOR - CORPORATE FINANCIAL & MANAGEMENT SERVICES) MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL I'd recommend we start with Item 11A. This should be a quick one. This is a recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, as the ex officio of the governing board of the Collier County Water/Sewer District, approve a resolution repealing and replacing Resolution No. 2023-135, as amended, by Resolution 2024-212 by modifying the Utility Project A-1 description set forth on Exhibit A to add the Northeast Interim Facilities Program and Wastewater Regional Treatment Plant Expansion project as eligible projects to be financed with a loan under the Florida Local Government Finance Commission's Pooled Commercial Paper Loan Program, and increasing and authorizing the borrowing of a not-to-exceed principal amount of $50 million to $200 million. This loan is secured by subordinate pledge of and lien on the net revenues of the water and sewer utility system in accordance with the terms of the loan agreement and as provided in the resolution approving such loan; authorize execution of the loan note or loan notes to evidence such borrowing; authorize the execution and delivery of other documents as may be necessary to effect such Page 39 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 28 borrowing; and authorize all necessary budget amendments. Mr. Christopher Johnson, your division director of Corporate, Financial, and Management Systems, is here to present or answer questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. First let me see, are there and registered speakers on this issue? MR. MILLER: There are not. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've all been fully briefed on this. Do we need a presentation or -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Move for approval. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion on that? We're only spending 50 to $200 million, so we should give it about -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Fifty dollars to 200 million? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Fifty million to 200 million. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Carry on. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The low end. COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm glad we've narrowed it down. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a second to approve this. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. Thank you. Page 40 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 29 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Commissioners. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Great presentation. Item #11B AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE OF 3910 DOMESTIC AVENUE FOR PUMP REBUILD OPERATIONS, INVENTORY STORAGE, AND PERSONNEL ACCOMODATION. THE TOTAL COST FOR THIS TRANSACTION WILL NOT EXCEED $4,525,000. (JIM DELONY, INTERIM DEPARTMENT HEAD - PUBLIC UTILITIES) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED MS. PATTERSON: All right. Mr. DeLony can stay right there, because we're going to take 11B. This is a recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners acting as the ex-officio governing board of the Collier County Water/Sewer District to approve an agreement for sale and purchase of 3910 Domestic Avenue for pump rebuild operations, inventory storage, and personnel accommodation. The total cost for this transaction will not exceed $4,525,000. Mr. Jim DeLony, your department head for Public Utilities, is here to present or answer questions. MR. DeLONY: Good morning, Commissioners. Jim DeLony, Public Utilities, for the record. Troy, if you'd put up the second slide, please, sir. We're here today to make the following recommendations to the Board. I have a briefing prepared, but I'll stand by for your questions in lieu of the briefing, if that's what you prefer, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, again, we've all been briefed on this individually. Are there any questions? Page 41 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 30 COMMISSIONER HALL: I do have a comment. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: I do have one question. In the current Shirley Street place -- MR. DeLONY: Yes. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- that we occupy that we've outgrown -- MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- do we have any idea of what the market value of Shirley Street is? MR. DeLONY: No, I do not. COMMISSIONER HALL: I'd like to find that out so that we can look at selling that property -- MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- getting it back on the tax rolls and perhaps using what that money brings us to go toward the new purchase. MR. DeLONY: Now, this -- and if I may, sir, I agree. Absolutely, we'd like to get out of that position, placed in another position. The problem is this property is not a substitute. It's not near large enough to accommodate that operation. COMMISSIONER HALL: Oh, I agree. I mean, I understand. MR. DeLONY: But I agree with you 100 percent. We are in pursuit for an alternative location for that particular function being collections for the wastewater department as well as moving some assets out of our Mercantile location to give us some additional room for our water distribution department. So in conjunction with the plan I briefed you back in July, all this is in motion to do exactly what you said. Shirley Street does play in that. Worst place in the world to try to get out and take care of utilities. I lose a lot of productivity time just getting on and off Pine Ridge Road or J&C Page 42 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 31 Boulevard, trying to move forward. COMMISSIONER HALL: I know. And I'm probably behind you when you're trying to make that left-hand turn. MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir, you probably are. Yes, sir. You probably are. Did I answer your question, sir? COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, sir. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman. You know, Jim, this may be slightly off topic, but it's not. We are so lucky to have you -- MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- back here. Ms. Patterson strongly recommended bringing you back here on an interim basis. And in the short time you've been here, I can't state -- overstate how much of a help you've been to -- MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- me in my district. You know, we've had some emergencies and, you know, you answer emails on a Saturday morning just the same way I write them. You answer phone calls. You've got your staff pointed in a positive direction. MR. DeLONY: Thank you. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So I don't care if you're interim or not. I look at you as "the guy," and I can see why you were so highly thought of, you know, before I was ever a commissioner. MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So keep at it. Keep your folks inspired. There's a lot that's on your plate that sometimes is invisible to the public until something explodes on their street. Then you're Page 43 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 32 the most important guy in the world. But I just wanted to just say thank you -- MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- especially recently over the last, you know, few weeks or so. You've been very responsive, and it hasn't gone unnoticed. So thank you. MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. I've got a great team. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You do. MR. DeLONY: And I appreciate very much those comments. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And a great leader. MR. DeLONY: And I'll take it back to them. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yes, sir. Thank you. MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Move for approval. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any other questions or comments from the Commission? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any registered speakers? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Move for approval. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then we need a motion. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I -- move for approval. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) Page 44 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 33 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. MR. DeLONY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Item #11E TO PLEDGE 50% OF THE FUNDS FOR ACQUISITION OF THE SEMINOLE GULF RAILWAY CORRIDOR WITHIN COLLIER COUNTY (UP TO $6,890,830) AND PROVIDE STAFF DIRECTION ON THE TRUST FOR PUBLIC LANDS REQUEST OF A PLEDGE OF 100% OF THE ACQUISITION COSTS (UP TO $13,781,660). (TRINITY SCOTT, DEPARTMENT HEAD - TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL - APPROVED MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we're going to jump down to Item 11E, because 11D's going to require probably more time than the 15 minutes we have until 10. This -- 11E is a recommendation to pledge 50 percent of the funds for acquisition of the Seminole Gulf Railway corridor within Collier County, up to $6,890,830, and provide staff direction on the Trust for Public Lands request of a pledge of 100 percent of the acquisition costs, up to $13,781,660. Trinity Scott, your department head for Transportation Management Services, is here to present or answer questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning. MS. SCOTT: Good morning. I leave to the Board of whether or not you'd like a full presentation. I believe we have maybe a few public speakers on this item -- one -- as well. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Hall. Page 45 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 34 COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks, Trinity. You know, we've got the breakdown of the funding option in the different areas and the recommendations from CCLAC. Could you let us know what the other options are as well as using Conservation Collier money or tourism funds or -- MS. SCOTT: So I presented to CCLAC, the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Committee, several options with regard to the corridor, one of which was participation by CCLAC on multiple segments of the corridor, not just those that were immediately adjacent. In the peach area that's on this map, there is a cell tower, and that particular property is not immediately adjacent to Conservation Collier owned property, and then obviously, we have the green area, which is the roadway. Other sources of funding that we would entertain that could be for the remaining what we call the other portion could be General Fund dollars. We could entertain other sources of funding. We haven't utilized tourism dollars for this type of initiative in the past, and it would need to go through TDT and through all of those appropriate channels before we could entertain that, to determine if it were even eligible. COMMISSIONER HALL: And then with the Conservation Collier funds, would it be possible to purchase all of it except for the highway portion? MS. SCOTT: That would be a Board decision. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. I bring this up because there's a lot of moving parts to this purchase, and this goes -- this trail goes all the way up to Sarasota. And Estero is part of it. City of Bonita is part of it. Lee County is considering it. It's really bad timing for them right now with all of the airport stuff that they have to deal with. But this is just, Page 46 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 35 like -- less -- right less than two miles of the BERT trail for us, and it would connect the Paradise -- the Paradise Coast Trail all the way up to Sarasota if we could pull this off. And this project is going to need prayer. There's -- you know, it's a lot of money, and all of the stars have to line up, plus more than that, to really get this thing off. But if we can pull it off, I think it would be a real benefit to Southwest Florida as far as having a quality bike trail, pedestrian trail, connecting all kinds of things. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, do we have any registered speakers? MR. MILLER: We have two, sir, one here in the room and one on Zoom. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's go through that. MR. MILLER: Your first registered speaker is Deborah Orton, and she'll be followed on Zoom by Michelle Avola Brown. MS. ORTON: You stole my thunder. You basically said the things that I'd like to say. My name is Deb Orton. I am president of a large non-profit. We have 4,000 members in Collier and Lee County, and it is friends of this rail-to-trail trail project. We affectionately call it BERT. Last week we had a chance to be boots on the ground in the Collier County portion. And you can think about it as a rail-to-trail, but you can also think about it as the acreage that it represents. It is so wide and beautiful in that two miles that is Collier County. It buts up against Conservation Collier lands, et cetera. So it is really wide; 160 feet wide at that point. So our experience we had, we brought a film crew in there, and it was really amazing walking that and doing video, et cetera, of that land. So we walked as far as we could, and we stopped at a place that -- where we know that Veterans Memorial Parkway would go Page 47 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 36 through and likely would put a trailhead there. And then, of course, we also witnessed the gopher tortoises, et cetera, that are there and on Conservation land. So to Commissioner Hall's point, this is where we connect. This is the part that we connect to the Paradise Coast Trail all the way down to Marco Island. This is where we connect in Lee County and Charlotte County and Manatee all the way up, Sarasota, and then all the way up to Tampa. This is the gap that the State of Florida sees in order to make a realization of Tampa to Marco Island, and maybe more important to all of us is into Naples, up to Fort Myers, and all the way down into our latest Florida Gulf Coast -- I'm sorry -- latest Florida Trail Town, which is now Marco Island. They were, last week, named as a Florida Trail Town. So thank you so much for considering this. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker joins us on Zoom, Michelle Avola Brown. Michelle, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time. I see you have. Michelle, you have three minutes. MS. AVOLA BROWN: Well, good morning. Sorry I can't be there in person, but I appreciate the opportunity to speak about this important project. When we have the Paradise Coast Trail on the ground, that will provide 100 miles of paved separated trail for walking, for biking, for rollerblading, for taking dogs on a walk, for pushing kids in a stroller, for folks in wheelchairs to be out and enjoy the beauty of Southwest Florida, and that will be really nice for Collier County, but we really need this connection with the Bonita/Estero rail trail so that we can then be part of this incredible 420-mile system, the Florida Gulf Coast Trail. The two miles that is in Collier County, you know, it may seem Page 48 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 37 insignificant, but it's pivotal. And this connection here, where the rail line has been basically abandoned, this has -- this area will have one of the greatest opportunities to be one of the most beautiful parts of our trail. A lot of our trail is going to be parallel to roadways. And while it will be safer, not all of it necessarily will be aesthetically pleasing to those walking or biking near it. But this section, especially, will be -- you know, will be just so pretty. And with the area still being able to be conserved and then enjoyed by sustainable kind of users, not vehicles going through here, that’s just -- that just adds so much to it. So I would humbly ask that you do support the recommendation of both Trust for Public Lands and Trinity Scott to fund this at the full capacity so the Paradise Coast Trail can then be the gateway to the whole rest of the Gulf Coast Trail. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Commissioner Hall, you may be the only bicycle enthusiast on the Board, so do you have a motion? COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll make a motion to approve this request. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and second. Any discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? Page 49 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 38 (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Am I not lighting up? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. Sorry. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's okay. That's okay. I just -- I did have a question -- MS. SCOTT: Sure. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- and then a comment. And the question was, the funding for this only comes from us in the event that the trust acquires the land for acquisition, No. 1; No. 2, rest assured that there is railbanking associated with the acquisition of this right-of-way in the event that greater technology comes about and we can have multiple uses for this facility. MS. SCOTT: You are correct on both accounts, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Somebody write -- oh, you already wrote that down. Okay. Very good. MS. SCOTT: I'm sure it will be the only time today, though. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, hmm. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, do we have time for one more quick item? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Item #11F THE FALL TRUCK HAUL BEACH RENOURISHMENT PROJECT AND AUTHORIZE TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX EXPENDITURES FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH RENOURISHMENT SCHEDULED FOR NOVEMBER 2025, WITH AN ESTIMATED PROJECT COST OF $5,500,000; AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM (PROJECT 90066). (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO 11.G.) Page 50 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 39 (ANDREW MILLER, MANAGER - COASTAL MANAGEMENT PROGRAM) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL - APPROVED Item #11G AWARD INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 25-8417, “COLLIER COUNTY - 2025 VANDERBILT & PELICAN BAY BEACH RENOURISHMENT,” TO DICKERSON INFRASTRUCTURE, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,450,000.00, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM. (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO 11.F.) (ANDREW MILLER, MANAGER - COASTAL MANAGEMENT PROGRAM) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL - APPROVED I think we can knock out the two companion items for the beaches. That is Item 11F and 11G. Item 11F is a recommendation to approve the fall truck-haul beach renourishment project and authorize tourist development tax expenditures for the Vanderbilt Beach renourishment scheduled for November 2025 with an estimated project cost of $5,500,000, and make a finding that this item promotes tourism. Its companion is a recommendation to award Invitation to Bid No. 25-8417, Collier County 2025 Vanderbilt and Pelican Bay Beach Renourishment, to Dickerson Infrastructure, Inc., in the amount of $4,450,000, authorize the Chair to sign the attached agreement, and make a finding that this item promotes tourism. Mr. Andrew Miller, your manager of Coastal Zone project -- Coastal Zone Management, is here to present or answer Page 51 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 40 questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: First, do we have any registered speakers, Mr. Miller? MR. MILLER: No. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Perhaps just a very brief -- MR. ANDREW MILLER: Very brief. Item 11 is for the public -- public portion of the project of Vanderbilt Beach, which is eligible for TDC funding. That's a project that is going to be around five and a half million dollars. Item G is for the actual contract to build Vanderbilt Beach and Pelican Bay. And we hope to start the project in a couple weeks and be done hopefully by Christmas or shortly thereafter. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. How much sand will be deposited on these beaches? MR. ANDREW MILLER: It's -- I believe it's around -- let's see. 100,000 yards on Vanderbilt and then 44,000 yards on Pelican Bay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any questions or comments? Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I just want to alert -- I was reviewing the bid -- I don't have any issue with the first item, but I just want to -- I want to alert the Clerk with regard to the bid package that went out on this. There was a local vendor that didn't get this job for less than 100,000, and there was a large disparity in the bid package with regard to the represented costs associated with the contractor that was selected. And I just want to make sure that we don't have somebody coming in here and doing a change order and eliminating a local vendor over someone that theoretically underbid it during that process. MR. ANDREW MILLER: And point well taken, sir, and we have -- our consultant and staff has vetted -- the contractor -- Page 52 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 41 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm not questioning any of those things. Please understand, I'm not questioning that particular process. It just -- for the -- for the edification purposes, because this is a state and federal subsidized beach renourishment program, it eliminates the local vendor preference process that would typically allow us to assert one of our local vendors. And so when I was reviewing it, there was large disparities in some of the bid processes, expenses associated, that allowed them to beat the local vendor by less than -- right around 100,000. So I just don't want this job to cost an extra 200,000 some day and have eliminated someone else because of a change order. MR. ANDREW MILLER: Understood, understood, and we're going to keep a close eye on them, because that's the last thing we want on this project is any change orders. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman. Yeah, I had a similar concern, Andy, that if you see a change order bubbling up or, you know, one of those special meetings where the current vendor says, "Oh, my gosh, you know, in our assessment, there's three things we just discovered," and now all of a sudden, you know, we're paying quite a bit more than even the vendors who didn't get it. I want to know that. I want that -- I don't want to find that out by accident. And, No. 2, different question, but, you know, you are literally, quote, knee deep in sand, you know. I mean, you are the sand guy. The last time we approved some beach renourishment due to storms and things like that, one of the things that you said at the podium is how much effort you had gone through to find us, like, the best possible not only contractor, but the best cost per truckload or whatnot. Just for my own curiosity -- because I actually get this question answered by a lot of -- or asked by a lot of people on Marco. Page 53 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 42 The going rate of sand, what -- the sand that you use, how are you seeing it fluctuating? Because one -- the last time you were here, I think, you were like, "Hey, it's actually pretty competitively priced, and we found a really good deal that we hadn't found before." So just generically -- because it's a big purchase -- what's the market for the sand that you use -- because we use a lot of it -- as far as the price point goes? MR. ANDREW MILLER: Well, the only information I have is this contract for the sand that we purchased this year has been a contract that we've used for the last several years, and it's $11 a ton and it has been since then. And they haven't increased their price, even though they have the opportunity to do so. The prices for sand during the emergency berm project were slightly higher. So give or take, it's well within the range that we expect. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Yeah, that's what I was curious about. Because I know at times it spikes, and then, ooh, that's a big number. Okay. Thank you, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Make a motion. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go ahead and do a motion for both of them. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll make a motion to approve. COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a second to approve Item 11F and 11G. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. Page 54 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 43 COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. MR. ANDREW MILLER: Thank you. Item #11C THE ZONING DIRECTOR TO SIGN A FLORIDA HOUSING FINANCE CORPORATION “LOCAL GOVERNMENT VERIFICATION THAT DEVELOPMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH ZONING AND LAND USE REGULATIONS” FORM IN ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA STATUTES 125.01055. (CORMAC GIBLIN, DIVISION DIRECTOR - ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT & HOUSING) – MOTION TO APPROVE WITH A REDUCTION TO 105 UNITS BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to our 10 o'clock time-certain, Item 11C. Item 11C is a recommendation to consider directing the Zoning director to sign a Florida Housing Finance Corporation "Local Government Verification that Development is Consistent with Zoning and Land Use Regulations" form in accordance with Florida Statutes 125.01055. Mr. Cormac, your division director for Economic Development and Housing, is here to begin the presentation. MR. GIBLIN: Good morning, Commissioners. Cormac Giblin, for the record. I'm here to present a recommendation to consider directing the Page 55 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 44 Zoning director to sign the -- a form that is needed for financing for affordable housing. It's a unique request. It's one that has not been before you yet. It's to use your zoning powers that are authorized through State Statute 125.01055. I want to go through a little bit about what is State Statute 125.01055, and it says that -- this law is known as the State's affordable housing law. It has several clauses and paragraphs. This Paragraph No. 6 has been amended from time to time. It was initially put into state law in about 2020/2021 time frame. This precedes the Live Local Act, as it's known. And what it says is that notwithstanding any other law or local ordinance or regulation to the contrary, the Board of County Commissioners may approve the development of housing that is affordable on any parcel zoned for commercial or industrial use so long as at least 10 percent of the units included in the project are for housing that is affordable and also that the provisions of this subsection are self-executing and do not require the Board of County Commissioners to adopt an ordinance or regulation before using the approval process in this subsection. This has been described in the past by some housing practitioners around the state as sort of a magic wand, that every board that the county has, that if you see a particular site and the conditions are right and you have a particular development model in mind, you can use the power of that statute to zone it, to grant it any density you wish, to grant it any -- any development standards that you wish. So it gives that power to you. And we have a request today from a developer who would like you to consider using that power. This is the site that's in question. It is off of Golden Gate Parkway near the -- near the intersection of Golden Gate Parkway and Goodlette Road. It's directly -- almost directly across the street Page 56 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 45 from Naples High and the Coastland Center. You'll notice on the slide that most of the slide is grayed out. That is City of Naples jurisdiction. What is in color is Collier County jurisdiction. So you can see that this site is maybe a little bit of a hole in the donut surrounded by city lands. More specifically, it is 2.03 acres currently zoned C-4. The developer also has the adjoining 0.61 acres that are in the City of Naples, but those are -- those would not be part of any development application or approvals that he would be asking from Collier County. I believe the future plan for that triangle at the end would be to remain green space. And zooming out a little more, you can see how it interplays with the current parcel next to it also zoned C-4. It's known as the Iberia Bank building. It's on an adjoining 2.65 acres. If this were all in one development similar to a PUD or a commercial PUD development, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They would have other avenues available to them. But since each parcel -- each of these is its individual parcel each zoned C-4, that's where we are. You might be familiar with the site, the way it's looked for the past few years. It's the former home of the Strikes and Spares Bowling Alley that was around for a long time. Again, it sits right in front of the Iberia Bank multistory office building. For a little more context and -- you can see how it relates to the mall, to the high school. There's a shopping center with a Publix. And, notably, there are no residential neighbors anywhere around this area. You're bordered by the Freedom Park, by the large commercial office building, and basically the Naples Greenway. Here it is again, and you can see how it relates to the City of Naples and the rest of the job and employment opportunities that are around -- less than two miles from here, be it the hospital or other areas. Page 57 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 46 What they're asking you to do is to use the power in that statute to grant them the development [sic] to authorize 120 affordable units to be built on this site. They've caveated that request with a few conditions. Number one is that they will comply with all applicable provisions of code and other laws. Number two, they will be in strict compliance with the parking, setbacks, and buffer requirements set back in the RMF-16 zoning district. The AMI levels for the proposed project will be as is shown in the chart below. And, Commissioner Hall, to your point earlier this morning, this project is proposed to be 100 percent affordable with 81 percent of the overall units under 80 percent of median income and, further, 65 percent of the overall units under 60 percent of median. Your point was well taken this morning that targeting those units at the 100 percent of area median income is really almost competing with market rate in this area. And as you recall, a couple weeks ago when we updated some of our housing policies in the Growth Management Plan and the LDC, that was our suggestion to you is that it's time to start looking to target something deeper. This project, I think, does a pretty good job of doing that. The affordability commitment will remain for a period of 30 years in their proposal, and it's -- this request is only approving the density and the number of units. The details will be worked out through a developer agreement that will still need to go through the full public process in Collier County, through the Planning Commission and through a further approval by the Board of County Commissioners. The reason the developer is here is because they need this form signed by the Zoning director before October 27th, which is the funding deadline to get to the State for housing tax credits financing. Page 58 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 47 And by signing this form, you would be authorizing the Zoning director to say that the undersigned local government representative confirms that as of the date this form was signed, the above-referenced development's proposed number of units, density, and intended use are approved pursuit to Section 125.01.055, Paragraph 6, Florida Statutes. And that's the -- that's a briefing of what the -- what the ask is from the representatives. I believe that Mr. Davies and his client are going to further -- give you a little bit more further background on it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner LoCastro, do you want to hear from Mr. Davies before you -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, I'll wait. Thanks. MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Commissioners. For the record, Noel Davies with the law firm of Davies Duke on behalf of Gallery at Naples, LLC. Alex Molina, my client representative, is also here this morning. First and foremost, my client and I want to thank all of you and your staff for allowing us to present this item today. A special thank you to Madam County Manager, Mr. County Attorney, Trinity Scott, Jamie French, Mike Bosi, Cormac Giblin, Heidi Ashton-Cicko. We are extremely appreciative of your help and collaboration on this item. We wouldn't be here without your support and without your creative thinking under the statute that Cormac mentioned, and we're very grateful for those efforts. As you heard from Mr. Giblin, this item relates to 1465 Golden Gate Parkway. It contemplates a 100 percent affordable housing project with the diverse AMI levels that you heard about from Mr. Giblin and, of course, that chart includes the very low categories of the AMI chart. As you heard from Mr. Giblin, the only way my client can take the next step on this potential project is to apply for the financing Page 59 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 48 with the State. That deadline, as you heard, is October 27th, and the application will not be accepted by the State unless Zoning Director Bosi signs the required verification form. So that is our request this morning, for you to provide preliminary authorization only so that we can apply for our financing, then come back through your process sometime next year if we are, in fact, awarded the financing. To be clear, a yes vote on this item is not a vote of the approval on the project. A yes vote simply authorizes Mr. Bosi's signature on the subject document. Without that signature, the project dies, because without the financing my client would be unable to provide the diverse AMI levels that Mr. Giblin described. Again, the statutory support for all of this is found in Section 125.01055, Subsection 6. A copy of that is in your backup for this item. You heard about the proposed AMI levels that we're committing to. These, again, importantly, speak to not just the 80 percent level, but you'll see here the significance of the lower categories and the significant portion of the project that would be dedicated to that. Again, this is not a project with a percentage of affordable housing and the rest market rate. This is proposed to be a 100 percent affordable housing project with these levels. We believe that the subject property is an ideal location for this type of project. As you heard from Mr. Giblin, it's isolated from other residential development, parks to the north and south, and nearly 30,000 jobs within a 2-mile radius, including two schools, Naples High and Lake Park Elementary, NCH, the Coastland Center Mall, and a number of additional employment centers, many of which are walkable from this site. Having a 100 percent high-quality affordable housing project at this location and with these proposed AMI levels would certainly Page 60 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 49 help mitigate our ongoing affordable housing crisis here in Collier County, and we're asking you today to allow us to take that first step for this potential project so that we can apply for the financing and come back through your formal public-hearing process. And with that, I'd now like to invite my client, Alex Molina, to share some additional thoughts with you. Again, thank you very much, Commissioners. We appreciate the opportunity to present this item to you today. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And as Mr. Molina is approaching the microphone, I have a question for the County Attorney. The statute says that the commissioners may approve the development. It may have been a little bit inconsistent with some of the comments from our staff. If we approve the signing of this document, we're talking about a request for 120 units on the parcel. At this point I don't have any issues with that, but the question is, does that in any way vest in the property owner the right to do the 120 units, or does that whole issue come back, and does the Board have discretion to deal with the density issues and that sort of thing at a future date? And if we do, what is that process? MR. KLATZKOW: The rub on this is the -- MR. MILLER: Turn the microphone on. MR. KLATZKOW: The rub on this is the certification that they're requesting, and under the certification, Mr. Bosi would be certifying that they're consistent with our land-use regulations. So the rezone issue is off the table. I believe your affordable -- your density's off the table after this. It's -- if we authorize Mr. Bosi to sign this, it's -- at that point in time, it's Site Development Plans, that sort of thing. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So that zoning right would vest on this -- Page 61 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 50 MR. KLATZKOW: Pretty much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- parcel? MR. KLATZKOW: Just based on the certification. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I just wanted to make sure we're -- I kind of got that feeling from Cormac Giblin, but I did not quite understand that in your comments. So I just wanted to make sure that we're here on the record. MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may, you also heard from Mr. Giblin we're agreeable to these additional conditions. So I think the statute does -- the statute's very discretionary and broad. It allows you to approve the 120 units. What I'm telling you today is that in addition to that, which is -- that's the very first step. We need to get the financing. If we don't have that, we can't get the financing, the project dies. But we are committing to you to come back through your process if and only if we're awarded the financing, which is still an if, but we can't do it without this piece; that we'll come back to discuss the density, development standards, everything else, but the commitments that Mr. Giblin read, which is us coming back to you and through the process, including committing to the RMF-16 standards, the density. The additional density is required for that -- for that form to go through the financing process, but that's still subject to future hearings with this board on that issue and other issues. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow, does that give us comfort in terms of what our flexibility is going forward? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. By consideration, it says you can conditionally approve this, and Mr. Bosi would note on the certification that this was conditionally approved; that they're still going through the rezone process. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. And the conditional Page 62 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 51 approval will be sufficient? MR. DAVIES: Well, no. The document has to be signed because it's a State form that -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, no. I know the document has to be signed. But you indicated something that -- MR. KLATZKOW: It's a certification. I mean, it's -- Mr. Bosi would be certifying that, at the end of the day, it conforms to local land-use regulations. So I -- that's the rub on this. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yep. MR. DAVIES: Sir, if I may, there's an "or" on the form, right? And Mr. Giblin walked you through this. Here's the -- here's the statute. Let me pull up the form from his. Do you have yours on here? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you could put that form on the visualizer -- MR. DAVIES: Put it on the visualizer. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- so we can all see it. I just wanted to make sure we -- on the record we're clear on what we're approving. MR. DAVIES: Yes, Mr. Chairman. So this is the form. "The undersigned local government representative confirms that as of the date this form was signed, the above-referenced development's proposed number of units, density, and intended use, one, are consistent with current land-use regulations and zoning" designations -- "zoning designation, or, two, are approved pursuant to Section 125.01055(6), Florida statutes." That's the "or" that we're here about today that gives the Board discretion to authorize the 120 units on the property. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow, while we're going through the comments and questions from the Commission, if you Page 63 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 52 could -- MR. KLATZKOW: Your problem is the certification. Mr. Bosi would be certifying that these 120 units are consistent with local land-use regulations and the zoning designation that this is commercial property. So unless the Board changes it from commercial to residential, Mr. Bosi really can't sign it. MR. DAVIES: Well, the -- but the Board has authority under the statute to authorize those number of units because of the commitments that this is an affordable housing project. That's what the statute allows you to do. MR. KLATZKOW: Again, the problem is the language of the certification is clear. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So if we approve this, we're approving 120 units on that parcel if the financing's available and the project goes forward? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I just want to be clear on the record as to what we're doing. MR. KLATZKOW: Or you could conditionally approve it, but I don't know that the State would accept that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, I think -- I think this discussion is about as clear as mud now because we're all -- we're all concerned about the same thing. Whenever we approve density or a number of units, it's a much more robust discussion where we talk about ingress and egress and height, and, you know, Commissioner Hall chimes in with some affordable housing concerns or issues. We all do. The way I understood this -- and that's where you say maybe this is sort of a gray area -- is I'll never hold -- I say "never," but in this particular case, I don't want to slow down the process of at least Page 64 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 53 asking for the funds, and if you don't get the funds, then we'll never see you again; this thing's dead in the water. But if tied to asking for those funds is we already give a flat agreement to 120 units and all the other details that go with it, that's normally not how we do it. We hear a whole presentation here from our staff, and what are the pluses and minuses. We have public comment, people that maybe don't live across the street but traverse these roads that, you know, we want to hear from them as well. So I just want to make sure this isn't -- and we spoke in my office, and much like, I think, Commissioner Saunders said at the beginning, initially I was like, this isn't a showstopper to me. And I'm not saying it is, but I want to make sure we're not just wrapping this in a package and putting it in the express lane. So that's why when I heard the County Attorney say, "it's conditional approval" -- and maybe words matter. What I'd be comfortable with is, "Yeah, I get what you're proposing and plus or minus, you know, we'll -- but you're going to come back with a deeper dive when you get the money." And we all might sit up here and say, "You know what, now that we've heard from public comment, now that we've heard from our engineers, now that we've heard from FDOT, now that we've heard from our housing folks, 120 is excessive," and so then we have a conversation about this. But if we're tied to 120 by Mr. Bosi signing this, I think all of us are going to have some reservations, because normally when we approve density and the number of units and whatnot, it's a much different presentation. And so I don't want this to just automatically carry -- you know, get tied to the money request. And so I think we've got to have the right verbiage. And maybe we even need to hear from Mr. Bosi, because if his signature's going on this, in the end, he's giving this the Page 65 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 54 green light or not the green -- And I can appreciate, Mr. Davies, what you're saying, "Oh, we'll be back, and we're -- you know, we've got some latitude to negotiate back and forth," but, you know, I don't want to make the mistake to hold this document up and go, "No, we're sticking to the 120 just like you signed and agreed to on October 14th," so... MR. DAVIES: And, Commissioner, let me be very clear, we are not holding you to the 120. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I know, but does the document hold us to that? You might not, but that's where the County Attorney said a few things that have me concerned that the document might hold us to that. You know, whether you are going to be a nice guy and come back here -- and maybe you've got some latitude, which is great, but I don't want the legal document to hold us to that, because I want to do a much deeper dive when it comes to density and units. I just want to give you the ability to pursue the money, and then if you get the money, then you come back, and then, okay, we have our normal type of presentation. So I'm still not clear that this document gives us the latitude to still -- still have a -- have the ability to negotiate the numbers and the units and whatnot. MR. DAVIES: Yes. The statute which is referenced in the document is what gives you that latitude and that discretion. I have -- MR. KLATZKOW: But your problem is you're asking for funding which requires a certification, and that certification is clear that we are authorizing 120 units and that it's consistent with the current land-use designation. That's what the certification says. MR. DAVIES: The certification says it's consistent with the statute, approved under the statute. That's where the "or" comes in after the "consistent with current land-use regulations and zoning designation." Page 66 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 55 MR. KLATZKOW: You're on the one above. I'm just on the certification by Mr. Bosi. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. It does say that "I certify that the city/county of Collier has vested in me the authority to verify consistency with local land-use regulation and zoning designations." There is an "or" there. Okay. That's not relevant. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Because let me ask this -- can I just finish my initial thought? If we approve this -- and this is more of a hypothetical, because I'm trying to understand the legalese in here -- and you went for the money based on this, you know, 120 units, blah, blah, blah, and you got the funds but then you came back here and, just for the sake of argument, we say, "You know what, we don't -- we think 120 is too large of a footprint. We're going to only approve" -- and just for the sake of this argument I'm going to use, you know, sort of, you know, numbers that are going to jump out at you -- "we're only going to approve 80 units." Then maybe you getting the funds are not -- are not authorized because you got the funds for the 120, but then you came back here and we changed that number. And so then the State might go, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, we gave you millions of dollars for 120 for a project that looked like this, but then when you came and negotiated with commissioners, they changed the parameters of what your ask was." And I just want to, you know, ask the attorneys in the room here, does that negate the money, then, that you got from the State because on your application the final result wasn't what was on the application? That's what I'm concerned about. And what -- you know, when we talked briefly in my office yesterday -- and I think you spoke with probably most of the commissioners -- I hadn't really thought of it that way, which was the specificity in this application ask, if any of it changes, does it negate Page 67 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 56 the approval of the money you get from the State? And I think they both have to sort of be married together. So we either have to be comfortable with the 120, or if our County Attorney says, "No, you have the latitude. It's a conditional approval" -- but I think a lot of times the money is tied to such specificity that, you know, if that's the case, we better be sure that this density -- and I think this is in Commissioner Kowal's district, right? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This is right on the edge, so he may know a little bit more about -- or have some more thoughts. But, you know, we do a much deeper presentation when we approve density and number of units, and we get into traffic and all that kind of stuff. So I just want to make sure all that doesn't go away because it's -- all of that is tied to this application. MR. DAVIES: Yeah. None of that goes away. There's still a future process that we have to go through if we get awarded the financing. And the 120 is up to 120, and you'll see there, it says, "This number must be equal to or greater than the number of units stated by the applicant in the Exhibit A of the" -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I know, but what if it's less than? MR. DAVIES: That would be -- that would be the maximum. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: One twenty is the maximum. MR. DAVIES: It could be less than. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Greater than -- MR. KLATZKOW: Equal or greater. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This says, "Equal or greater," so that doesn't make sense. If it said -- if it said, "This is the max number," da, da, da, and it could be less than, you know, if it was that kind of verbiage, but I actually don't think that bottom sentence helps Page 68 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 57 us because it says, "This number could be equal or greater." So if we go, "You know, 120's not enough. We want 220," I think the money still holds, but I'm just -- MR. DAVIES: No, no, no. MS. PATTERSON: No. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No? MR. DAVIES: This number must be equal to or greater than the number of units stated by the applicant. The point of this form is that it's a -- it's a certification that the density is available on this property. It would be the maximum density. We're not necessarily asking for that density, but you've got authority to -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This outlines the maximum density, but it's not saying that that's what your project's going to be; is that what you're saying? MR. DAVIES: Yes. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You know, to make me comfortable -- and then I'll -- there might be other people left -- I want to hear those sentences from the County staff. MR. DAVIES: Sure, sure. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You know, so I want to hear it from Mr. Giblin or Mr. Bosi or our County Attorney, because -- and not to say you're not -- I'm not saying you're not being truthful, but I want it echoed by our staff that we're not bound to this 120, that if this 120 is tied to the money and we change the 120 in any way, it might negate you getting funds. So that's -- I think that's what we're all asking in a different way here. MR. DAVIES: Understood. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll wait for staff. My question's specifically for Mr. Bosi. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi, why don't you come on Page 69 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 58 up while we're -- MR. GIBLIN: I can perhaps answer Commissioner LoCastro's question. This is the maximum that you would be authorizing on this site. Their state application could propose 116 units, 100 units, 90 units, anything less than 120. If they were approved for state funding at a number and then at a later date this board decided that, due to operational characteristics -- I mean, every project needs to be viable through the Site Development Plan process. You can't -- just because you're zoned for 120 units, there are times when you cannot operationally fit 120 units with parking and ingress/egress, traffic, preserves, set-asides, water management. So all of those restrictions that you have in your code still would apply to this. So the 120 may be unachievable anyway once they got into the Site Development Plan process. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And it wouldn't change the money they got from the State so -- MR. GIBLIN: So that was the second point I was going to make. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. MR. GIBLIN: That would be between them and the State. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right. MR. GIBLIN: They -- I know that there is a little bit of flexibility. And perhaps, you know, the client can come up here later to talk about what those are, but there are penalties by the State if you say you're going to do one thing but later you need to adjust it and do less. There are ways to get through there, but it does create a problem between them and the State that they would need to work out. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Page 70 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 59 McDaniel, anything for Mr. Bosi? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It hasn't changed from -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Bosi. Commissioner, did you have a question for Mr. Bosi? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did. Yes, now that he's here. What was prohibiting this applicant from applying under the Live Local Act to go forward? This property's already underlying zoning of C-4. MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. The applicant is seeking a density of roughly 60 units an acre. The Live Local that has been discussed with the Board of County Commissioners, the maximum allowed density we would allow under Live Local is 25 units an acre. So he can't attain the number of units that they're seeking within this application utilizing the Live Local, which allows the applicant to skip the public-hearing process. This process under 125 allows the Board of County Commissioners to approve a project at any density if it contains affordable housing. So there was -- and still under Florida Statute 125, but the -- the ability to increase the density beyond the 25 that's set at Live Local is the process that they're seeking, so that's why they're going this route and not the traditional Live Local. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Klatzkow, if -- this 120 units, if it says that the number of the units or the density or the intended use are consistent with the regulations and zoning and are approved pursuant to Section 125 -- and Section 125 says that we may approve it. It doesn't say that we have to approve it. MR. KLATZKOW: Again, like was said before, this is a magic wand. I mean, the Board could bypass everything and approve this. Your problem -- your problem right now here is the certification, not Page 71 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 60 the statute. COMMISSIONER HALL: So if we certify this form -- MR. KLATZKOW: Then you're 120 units, and -- COMMISSIONER HALL: -- we're pretty well sticking our feet to the fire for the 120? MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, and you're saying that it's consistent with the current land-use regulations, which means you'd have to, as part of your motion, change it. COMMISSIONER HALL: Are we allowed to modify the language in this document to go to the State? MR. KLATZKOW: Again, I don't know if the State would -- I don't know how the State would view that. COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. I mean, I would be comfortable if there was a clause that says this certification by no way binds us to any density or any number of units allowable in the future that may come with this project. If we could put that language in there, I would be comfortable with it. But listening to what you're saying is a little bit different than the way that I understood. I understood it like Mr. Davies said. If we sign this form, we're in no way bound to it. But listening to what you say, if we certify this, then we kind of are. And so if we had some kind of language in there that would take us off the hook -- I don't mind them asking for financing, but I don't in any way -- I'm never going to agree to 120 units. I said that to them yesterday, and I mean it today. Even 43 percent of the mix is still basically at market rate from 80 percent to 110 percent regarding my comments earlier. So if we can modify it, I think I'm fine with it. If we can't, then I don't want to bind us in any way. MR. DAVIES: I'm happy to do some sort of separate agreement or document that memorializes what I'm telling you about going back Page 72 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 61 through the process and that you're not bound by the 120. I think as a -- as a ministerial matter with the -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Wouldn't that create a problem -- wouldn't that create a problem for you with the State? You're sending a certification that says X, and you're giving us a side agreement that says Y? I think I don't want to put you in that position. I don't think you can do that. Mr. Bosi -- and, you know, when I met with you guys, I had no issues with this, but I thought we could all come back on the number of units, and so that's what's got me a little hung up. But, Mr. Bosi, let's just say that the Board votes to do this, we just simply say, "Okay, we're going to authorize the signature," it's your certification, and your certification would be that this is consistent with the land-use regulations and the zoning designation. If we said, "Okay, go ahead and fill out the form," you're the one that's under oath. Are you going to sign it? I mean, am I -- MR. BOSI: If directed to sign the documentation that this was the number of units that was available, from my understanding, that there was going to be some conditional phrasing that was going to be added to that to provide a little, I don't know, flexibility. But if it is certifying that this 120 is available, I'm being asked by -- I'm being directed by the Board of County Commissioners to perjurize (phonetic) myself. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. Well, I'm assuming you wouldn't want to do that, so... MR. BOSI: I mean -- that's not a position that -- I'm most certainly a team player for the County, but that is most certainly an extraordinary ask. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mike, you need an attorney right now to represent you at that podium. Stop talking. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Molina, did you have -- I'm Page 73 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 62 sorry. We're not going to be able to really resolve this in a positive way for you right now. And I know you've got a deadline before October 27th, or something like that, and we don't have another meeting. MR. DAVIES: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me make a -- I'm just going to throw out a suggestion that you talk to our County Attorney during our lunch break. Let's put this off till the end of our regular meeting, continue this today for later on today so that you have an opportunity to talk with the County Attorney and discuss what your certifications would be, because I think right now, if we vote right now, you're going to get a no vote, and there may be some way to resolve this. That would be just a suggestion. Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. And, Mr. Bosi, you know, we've talked. This is -- we've had a lot of conversations in reference to this. Like I said, I told, I think, Jamie that day on the phone call that I would never ask you to put yourself in that position. And later in the day I was recontacted and said that, you know, something was -- the language was not going to be the issue that would put you in the position that you perjure yourself. But now sitting here today, I'm getting -- everybody's rereading this thing, and everybody's coming up with different opinions on what we're doing here, and the sad part is -- the reality, I would never ask you to perjure yourself for a project. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, I might ask you to do it, but -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, I'm just -- me, I wouldn't. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm just kidding. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We do have to get a lot of clarity on this moving forward because this is not what I was comfortable Page 74 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 63 with leading up to today. You know, that was not what I was, you know, agreeing to support. But at the same time, we've done these forms before, like, for Rural Neighborhoods and, you know -- and I don't know how many units. They got 500-some units on their piece of property. But don't they, like, take consideration, the whole golf course is part of their property, and that's how they get their density under the 25? MR. BOSI: Again, Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. Yeah, I've signed this form numerous times for a number of our affordable housing projects for their financing, and it's a process where I will go. I'll certify what's the zoning designation, what's the allowance from a density perspective, and certify that that's the number of units that are available. So it's not uncommon for me to author -- or sign this on behalf of the County. This is just a unique circumstance just because of the conditional language that I think -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The reason I'm going in that direction is because, like I said, I know other projects that are building on a certain footprint, like our golf course project, our VA, you know, they don't actually occupy the whole golf course, but they kind of utilize that footprint in getting their density to stay under the 25 per acre. Now, I'm just going to run -- throw something out there. We had that -- Cormac had the other picture of the actual property footprint, the whole triangle, and from what I understand, I think -- I believe the bank owns all the property, and that's who they're purchasing it from. MR. DAVIES: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So it would be -- it wouldn't be hard for them -- I don't know. It's on their end to negotiate, but if they included the bank's footprint, their footprint, the City's footprint, Page 75 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 64 and included all that acreage, they would actually be under the 25 units per square foot [sic]. MR. DAVIES: 22.69. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I think that's what -- you know, there could be a creative way they can go at this where we could sign this letter today, but I don't -- you know, I'm not comfortable if it's the way -- the way it's coming out, transpiring today, this is not what I was signing on for. So I want some clarity, and I hope they take the Chairman's recommendation and try to figure something out here for -- MR. DAVIES: And, Commissioner Kowal, Mr. Chairman, you know, if I may, happy to speak with the County Attorney further and come back later to you today. I want to make it very clear for the record that there is -- there is no intent for Mr. Bosi to -- or you to authorize him to perjure himself. I mean, I -- I know that we're sort of joking about that. I think that's a gross perversion of the language of the document, quite frankly. So I -- perhaps Mr. Klatzkow and I are reading it differently. We will go speak about that and try to -- I mean, I appreciate the creative thinking. Of course, what we're trying to do is have a sufficient application for the State, because the State does have a very strict interpretation of that and strict sufficiency requirements. So we want to get the form signed, but we certainly want to get it in a way that you're comfortable authorizing the form. If the form -- if the form doesn't get signed today, it's a deadline that, you know, I don't set, that the State sets. Project's dead. It's a phenomenal project and a phenomenal site with phenomenal AMI levels. And so I will absolutely speak with your County Attorney and come back before you. But I would urge you to consider giving us this shot to go get the financing, and then memorialize however we Page 76 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 65 can to make sure that you're comfortable that we'll see you again on the density issue, and you get a full and true bite at that apple. We are not seeking to circumvent your process. We're not seeking to go fast. We're just under this deadline with the State, and so we're trying to go -- get the financing first and then come back to you on those issues. So I will work with your County Attorney on trying to memorialize that in a legally enforceable way for the County. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro and Commissioner Hall -- COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm done. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're both lit -- okay. Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mr. Bosi, you said you've signed a bunch of these forms. Did you ever sign it that had a density on it like this, and then when it came back -- and then they got the money, and then when it came back to us with much more detail on the actual project, the density was changed and it didn't affect anything? Can you recall anytime where there might have happened? MR. BOSI: No. Every time that we've signed -- I've signed this, it's based upon the actual density that's associated with the property. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And then that's what was actually built. And for the applicant's side, you know, nobody's picking on you or anything, but I think we want to make sure you don't get crossways with the State where you apply for the money and you show exactly what your proposed plan is, but then, you know, when we approve density or number of units or whatever, it's a totally different presentation in here. It's not just a quick form. And if we made changes to it -- and the commissioner said this best -- we might Page 77 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 66 be setting you up to have some sort of issue with the State where now the money that they authorized for 120 units, if that 120 changes, they may have an issue with the amount of money that they gave you. They could pull it back, give you less. You know, we don't want to have -- we want this to be clean. But I know when it comes to density, we usually just don't vote for it, and we don't vote for a construction project, you know, based off of -- nobody wants to keep you from your right of asking for the money, but if asking for it comes with the 120 with no flexibility, that's, I think, what we're all saying in basically a different way, but that's our main takeaway. So I agree with the Chairman. Go forth and concur at lunch, and we realize the timeline crunch. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have any registered? MR. MILLER: We do, Mr. Chair. And since this was a time-certain, I wondered if you wanted me to call them. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, let's hear from the public so they don't have to -- MR. MILLER: We have three registered speakers. First, Naples City Manager, Gary Young, and he will be followed by Bill Kramer. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner Kowal, did you have something? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I was just going to ask Bosi just to clarify something real quick. I know -- because Commissioner LoCastro had asked him about -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Mr. Bosi. Real quick, Mike -- I'm sorry -- Mr. Bosi. Commissioner LoCastro asked you about signing the form in the past and the number on there being the number that we approved and probably ended up building. But I Page 78 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 67 know I did my own research, and we've talked also. All these other projects in the past that's gone to get this money, their footprint was large enough that they stayed under or stayed at the 25 units per square acre, correct? MR. BOSI: All the projects in the past had the density at the time that I signed that letter allocated to the property that they were -- that that letter was associated with. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, because of the footprint that they're building on. Their problem is they're squeezing the footprint down on a larger [sic] piece of property, and that's what hurts them. If they can include the whole footprint, this wouldn't even be an issue today. MR. BOSI: Yeah. If they could -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It would be by right through Live Local. MR. BOSI: If they could get under 25 units an acre, they would seek it without public hearing under Live Local. MR. GIBLIN: And, Commissioner, just for clarification, the question was asked a little while ago how often does a project come in under what is certified, I'd say most often. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. MR. GIBLIN: The forms are done at the very, very forefront of a project to secure that financing, and then as they go through that financing and they go through some real site planning, more often than not they find that they can't achieve the number that they've put in this form, and they come in at somewhat less. Now, that's not because of an action by the Board of County Commissioners, but that's just due to operational characteristics. They can't find enough parking, things like that. So more often than not these forms are signed and then when it actually comes back, it comes in at a lower density. Page 79 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 68 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's go ahead and hear from the public comment. MR. MILLER: Mr. Gary Young, Naples City Manager, and he'll be followed by Councilman Bill Kramer. MR. YOUNG: Good morning and thank you for having me. The reason I'm here today, obviously, is, this, you know, was put on everyone's radar within the City, and it's immediately -- you know, your discussion is a microcosm of why I'm here, because members -- this didn't follow the normal trail, and you don't have an opportunity to opine. Residents wrote to members of Council, to the City Manager's Office, and have anxiety over this because of all the unknowns. So your question is exactly the reason Council at yesterday's workshop says, "Please make sure you're there. Communicate to members of the Commission to say that to approve something that we don't know exactly what the density is and to say that this maximum level is the prudent decision" -- and, you know, I equate it to some of us are old enough to have played with dominoes. If the first domino falls and it falls flat, that's fantastic. But if it triggers other things to happen with -- outside your control, you're trying to get your arms around it, and that's the equation that I -- I see. I'm not going to -- I did send -- have the records -- a letter sent today. I would like it to be part of the record. I provided it. And -- but the main thing is is there's two things in there. We have enough interlocal agreements that -- and it's at our doorstep that we have a dual interest in making sure that this is developed properly and its configuration and its location in an area where there is already half -- heavy traffic and a -- I would just say confined traffic pattern. It warrants all of this discussion. So respectfully, on behalf of the citizens in Naples, and Canton, Canton City -- or, yeah. Canton City. Sorry. I'm from Canton, Page 80 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 69 Ohio -- from Naples City Council. We just ask that, you know, you consider this, that it cannot be a domino that guarantees this because the density -- we have issues with the density and think it will present operational problems going forward. So thank you very much and thank you for the opportunity to speak before you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Councilman Bill Kramer. He'll be followed by Garrett Beyrent. MR. KRAMER: Howdy, men. Thanks very much. Appreciate this opportunity. I'm -- my name is Bill Kramer, for the record. Twenty-two years as the Naples High School head football coach. I left during COVID and began working with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, which put me in all the schools. And then a year and a half ago, I was elected to Naples City Council. And I have to say I don't speak for Naples City Council right now, and I don't speak for FCA. But I'd give that as some street cred that I have my pulse on that community. And I invest heavily in Naples High School. The first thing I thought of when I heard of this, which was yesterday, was the sound of traffic accidents that we would hear probably monthly. This is by recollection, anecdotal, but is a very common occurrence as we're sitting there at football practice. Bam. That corridor from 22nd -- by the way, I live as far from the softball field as this development is from the football field. So I'm in that Sun Terrace neighborhood. And I found it interesting. I was wondering if our petitioner was mediocre at what they do, which is why they're trying to use this lever of time where we have to hurry and do this because we're under the gun. By the way, none of us are under the gun. They're under the Page 81 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 70 gun. I would like to play against guys that are that way. They can't prepare well enough to get their stuff done on time. That's why we won so many games, or the other thing is that they're sketchy enough and manipulative enough to try to use that as a lever. Now, I didn't know who I was going to see when I walked in this morning, and I have great respect for the Council, but this is sketchy or unprepared, and I can't believe he'd be unprepared. So I asked yesterday -- it happened quick. I got it last night for this police report. This is since January -- forgive these glasses -- 75 vehicle crash calls at that 22nd Street to Golden Gate Parkway in front of Naples High School crash calls year to date, 75. And so if we're going to talk about this, let's talk about that. I'm for affordable housing. I'm a proponent. I think all you guys know me well enough to know that. Single-income teacher. Let's go. But I also want to know, how is this going to work that we don't put kids at danger and for our current parents and our future parents who have a vested interest what this traffic looks like? And I thought -- this is when I knew they were sophisticated. The picture, that's great. The rule of thirds, if you had high school photography, you know the rule of thirds. Show the other side of it. Show my neighborhood in Lake Park. Show it from that view and cut it off right at the building. All of a sudden it looks a lot more dense. I just ask you, don't reward mediocrity. Don't reward somebody trying to circumvent the system. And real quick, typically a request such as this would be made under a public petition; however, it is being brought in this manner, as the developer cannot wait until the second meeting of October. That's not your problem. Thanks, men. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir. Page 82 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 71 MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is Garrett Beyrent. MR. BEYRENT: For the record, Garrett FX Beyrent. I'm only here because I'm wondering myself -- I'm owner of the Pine Ridge Corners PUD that's on Pine Ridge Road at the I-75 exit. And I was proposing a 26-story automobile museum there. And Mike Bosi said he'd give me at least six stories. So I'm kind of wondering when stuff comes up before you that they're waiting for, like, the deadline. And that's one thing you guys, I've learned, never, ever allow stuff like this. You can't say, "Hey, you've got to sign this document or you're going to lose this, that, and the other thing." And I'm there, like, I don't even know what they're planning to do anymore. It's -- it's just a question. When you guys are put on the hot spot right here, it's just poor planning. And I've always had planning that required way too much, you know, public information, but this is out of my league totally. Thank you for allowing me to share that, because I'm -- I just shake my head every time I come up here. I said, boy, some things just don't make a lot of sense, you know, and this is one of them. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We've kind of beaten this to death here. I had made a suggestion that we might want to give them the opportunity to meet with our staff and clarify whether or not this is a -- really does vest them at 120 units or if there's some flexibility. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: I agree with your decision to postpone this, but one suggestion, and I don't know if this is a possibility. If we can't modify the form, maybe we can attach a cover letter that says that these units may be permissible but certainly not vested with this form; if that wouldn't allow us to -- allow them to ask Page 83 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 72 for financing, not keeping us on the hook. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Why don't we go ahead and put this at the end of our agenda. During the lunch hour, whenever you get an opportunity, talk to Mr. Klatzkow. And I'm not sure if Heidi Ashton is here, but whoever else in your office obviously that need to be -- MR. KLATZKOW: And I'll bring Mr. Bosi and Mr. French to this, too. MR. DAVIES: Happy to do that, Mr. Chairman. I think my client wanted to say a couple words, if he may. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. MOLINA: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Board. I just want to clarify a few things. It's not sketchy. And, Coach, I'm not trying to pull a quick one. I've been studying this for more than a year. The reality of it is I should be able to do 91 units per acre under Live Local. I have the density. I have the height. The County is not allowing me to do this. Ask the attorney. We could have the discussion right now. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, please have that discussion during the break so that there can be some response to us. MR. MOLINA: I want it on public record. MR. DAVIES: Thank you. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Chairman, could I just -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just want to kind of bring this plane in a little bit. They have been speaking to us for some time. It's not like this is just -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They came to the County with Live Local rules in hand. They were using our mini-triangle PUD, Page 84 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 73 the numbers of density we use on that particular project, the height of the bank building right next to their lot. It would have gave them -- like he was saying, if Live Local was written in a way that it was clear in and decise (phonetic), but it's not. Live Local's changed three times in the past three years with the language. And what happened was when they came in and said, "Listen, by right, we can build a 75-foot building at almost 90 units per acre on this site just by Live Local, and it wouldn't even come to the Board of County Commissioners," but -- because they were using the footprint in the mini-triangle as their comparable for density. But when the County and Mr. Bosi sent them a letter of rejection because they said that, no, you've got to read further on in Live Local, the footprint in the triangle was a special condition through the CRA that was a one-time kind of deal. And in Live Local, there's something that says those are excluded from the comparables. And that's where all this got gummed up over, like, a six-month period while they were trying to do it through the Live Local through the channels. They thought they had the right to do it, then it all got to this point today where now they want to use the other statute, get us to sign the letter of, you know, whatever, approval, say it can go up to 120. Then they can go to the State. It's a lottery to get the money. They wouldn't even know till March if they even get it. And from what I understand, if they don't get it, the project's dead anyways. So I just wanted to bring it to everybody in the room that this is not, like, something just came to us three weeks ago and they want us to sign this letter. This is something that's been going on. It was a misinterpretation when they were initially applying through Live Local. The County rejected what they were applying for, because in Live Local -- later on in there there's other language that I think was overlooked, and that's why we are here today. So just to let Page 85 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 74 everybody understand that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, then I'm going to suggest again that we delay this until the end of the meeting. Mr. Bosi, you're going to need to be involved in the discussion, and I'd like an update on the Live Local, how that will work as well. So we need some clarification. We're just not going to be able to do it on the fly here. So if that's okay with you, Mr. Klatzkow. It's going to interrupt your lunch hour, but... MR. KLATZKOW: I can stand losing a few calories. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. We'll make it up to you later. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I've got a protein drink I'll give you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We need to take a break. We're going to come back at 10 minutes after 11. MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Commissioners. We'll be back. (A recess was had from 10:54 a.m. to 11:10 a.m.) MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you'll please take your seats. Ms. Patterson, where are we? MS. PATTERSON: Sir, we're going to return to zoning now. We're going to take -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your seats. Item #9B Page 86 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 75 ORDINANCE 2025-48: AN ORDINANCE REZONING REAL PROPERTY FROM RESIDENTIAL-SINGLE-FAMILY-3 (RSF-3) ZONING DISTRICT TO A RESIDENTIAL TOURIST (RT) ZONING DISTRICT WITHIN THE VANDERBILT BEACH RESIDENTIAL TOURIST OVERLAY (VBRTO) ZONING DISTRICT FOR A PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS PARAISO CLUB. THE SUBJECT 1.35± ACRE BEACHFRONT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ALONG THE GULF OF AMERICA ON THE WEST SIDE OF GULF SHORE DRIVE, JUST SOUTH OF THE INTERSECTION OF GULF SHORE DRIVE AND BAYVIEW AVENUE, IN SECTION 29, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20240007340] (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO 9.C., PL20240009700, PARAISO CLUB CONDITIONAL USE) – MOTION TO APPROVE WITH MODIFICATION AND STAFF STIPULATIONS BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - ADOPTED Item #9C RESOLUTION 2025-217: A RESOLUTION FOR A CONDITIONAL USE TO ALLOW A PRIVATE CLUB WITHIN A RESIDENTIAL TOURIST- VANDERBILT BEACH RESIDENTIAL TOURIST OVERLAY (RT-VBRTO) ZONING DISTRICT PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.03.02.E.1.C.5 OF THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE SUBJECT 1.35± ACRE BEACHFRONT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ALONG THE GULF OF AMERICA ON THE WEST SIDE OF GULF SHORE DRIVE, JUST SOUTH OF THE INTERSECTION OF GULF SHORE DRIVE AND BAYVIEW AVENUE, IN SECTION 29, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, Page 87 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 76 FLORIDA. [PL20240009700] (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO 9.B., PL20240007340, PARAISO CLUB REZONE) – MOTION TO APPROVE WITH MODIFICATION AND STAFF STIPULATIONS BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - ADOPTED MS. PATTERSON: We're moving on to Items 9B and Item 9C these are companion items. They will require participants to be sworn in. 9B is a recommendation to approve an ordinance rezoning real property from Residential Single-Family 3 Zoning District to a Residential Tourist Zoning District within the Vanderbilt Beach Residential Tourist Overlay Zoning District for a project to be known as Paraiso Club. I hope I said that right. The subject 1.35 plus/minus-acre beachfront property along Gulf of America on the west side of Gulf Shore Drive just south of the intersection of Gulf Shore Drive and Bayview Avenue in Section 29, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida. Its companion item, 9C, is a recommendation to approve a resolution for a conditional use to allow a private club within a residential -- within a residential tourist -- I just lost my place. I'm sorry -- within a residential tourist -- Vanderbilt Beach Residential Tourist Overlay Zoning District pursuant to Section 2.03.02.E.1.c.5 of the Collier County Land Development Code. The subject 1.35 plus/minus-acre beachfront property is located along the Gulf of America on the west side of Gulf Shore Drive just south of the intersection of Gulf Shore Drive and Bayview Avenue in Section 29, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida. If I could, we'll go through and get the Commission's disclosures, and then we'll get everybody sworn in by the court Page 88 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 77 reporter. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. I have meetings, correspondence, emails on both of these items. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: I've got it all on 9B and 9C; meetings, correspondence, emails, and calls. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Meetings, emails, and calls. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same; meetings, emails, and calls. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I have the same thing as well. MS. PATTERSON: With that, anyone who will be participating, including public speakers, please stand to be sworn in by the court reporter. THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? (The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.) MS. PATTERSON: Very good. We'll begin with Mr. Yovanovich. MR. YOVANOVICH: Good morning. For the record, Rich Yovanovich on behalf of the applicant which is -- Amy, you messed me up -- Paraiso Club, LLC. And David Tingley is the representative for the applicant. You have some of the usual suspects on my team. You have Bob Mulhere and Ellen Summers are our planners. Mark Sultana is our architect. Pat -- I can't -- I mess up -- Pat Trefz is our landscape architect. Jim Banks is online, is our transportation consultant, and Tim Hall is our environmental consultant. Page 89 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 78 This is the approximately 1.35-acre parcel that is the subject of both petitions. And as you can see, it's adjacent to the LaPlaya Hotel and the LaPlaya Beach Club. So our request is to basically construct a private beach club on this 1.35 acres adjacent to a private beach club. So we are, essentially, extending the RT zoning that exists on the property adjacent to us to our parcel; however, we are basically gutting all of the uses allowed in the RT zoning and only -- the only remaining use is the beach club that has to go through the conditional-use process, which is the second petition before you today. So you have two petitions related exclusively to establishing a private beach club. I will tell you that staff's recommending approval. The Planning Commission recommended approval. We were scheduled to be on your summary agenda, but you received, I believe, a letter of objection from Phil Whistler, I think -- or I'm not sure I'm saying his last name correctly. I did look through the letters. I looked through the speakers, and I didn't notice him as one of the speakers. You have 22 speakers. I could tell you that I think -- I recognize all names but one. They're all on my team or on my side to speak in favor of the petition. So I can shortcut the public speakers so you can hopefully stay for your time-certain for Costco if that is the direction the Board would like us to go. We are in the Urban Residential Subdistrict under your Comprehensive Plan. Residential Tourist Zoning is consistent with your Comprehensive Plan. As I mentioned, we are extending the existing RT which extends all the way up to that blue box. We're extending the RT over our two parcels of property for the beach club. And we have a presentation that Bob can take you through over -- regarding the master plan. You've all seen the staff materials. Page 90 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 79 You've seen the proposed master plan. You've received numerous letters of support in favor of the petition. I will have Bob briefly go through the master plan, and then if you want to go to public speakers or speak to staff, whatever is the direction that the Board would like to go. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let me -- no one's lit up here yet. Why don't we hear the brief presentation. But I think, make it brief, and we'll see if there are any questions. First of all, in terms of the speakers, are there any speakers here that are here in opposition to this petition? Okay. So we certainly want to hear from you. The other speakers I'm sure will be somewhat repetitive. So we don't -- I don't know that we need to hear from all the other speakers. Obviously, you're welcome to speak, but we're not going to need to hear 17 or 18 comments in support. MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's hear the presentation, and then we'll get to the public comment. MR. MULHERE: Thank you. Good morning. For the record, Bob Mulhere with Bowman Consulting Group. On the visualizer is a master plan. I just want to point out a couple of things. I have a minimum 21-foot setback to the north. There is a beach access along the north as well, a 21-foot minimum setback on the south. And obviously, you can see that the structure is largely located so as to maximize the amount of beach. This dune will be replanted. It was destroyed during one of the storms or multiple storms. That will be replanted. Access is here and here. There are relatively few parking spaces; I think 17 because we have -- we have a commitment that all of the members, other than those who have a handicapped reason, will be bussed to the site -- excuse me -- in a luxury van. I guess Page 91 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 80 "bussed" is not the correct word. But they will be shuttled to the site in a luxury van operated by the beach club. This exhibit is an overall landscape exhibit. Let me just go to the next one, because we talked about dune restoration, so I did want to point out that we have certain types of natural dune vegetation which is very helpful not only to this particular site but obviously in terms of storm minimizing the damage from wave action. A couple of architectural renderings. That's a front perspective. It looks like a large single-family home. Just an aerial. I'm not sure why that's in there. In terms of the building height, in this particular exhibit in red, you see two single-family homes outlined with the proposed beach club behind it, and you can see that the two single-family homes built lot line to lot line -- which is usually what happens because the cost of the lots up there -- would actually have less view corridor and less open space than what we're proposing. Rich mentioned most of the conditions of approval. The only use that we're retaining in RT is the private beach club. We've limited the height to 38 feet zoned and 57 feet actual. Hours or operation, 8 a.m. till 11 except that the use of the pools and access to the beach will cease one hour after sunset. Obviously, we're going to comply with sea turtle requirements. I'm just looking to see if there's anything else that is important to -- I guess I'll conclude with -- oh, maximum trip generation is very low. We're at 19 two-way p.m. peak hour net trips, and that's because the shuttle will bring multiple people to the site as opposed to them driving their individual cars. We had a neighborhood information meeting on April 7th. Three members of the public were there and five members by Zoom. And I've got Rich behind me, so I better sit down. MR. YOVANOVICH: I just wanted to conclude Page 92 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 81 by -- obviously my client spent a lot of time with the neighbors. You've received several letters of support from the neighbors, including the neighbor immediately north of us. So we've spent a lot of time designing this to be consistent with the neighborhood as you can see by the number of speakers, which will not all speak, but they're pretty much in the neighborhood speaking in favor of what we're proposing. It's a good project. It's going to get people off of the already crowded beach by the Ritz, moving them here to this portion of the beach. We've -- we took care in the traffic by using shuttles only, as you can see by Bob's testimony regarding only having 19 p.m. peak-hour trips. So it's been very well received by the neighbor -- by the neighborhood and the neighbors. And that's a brief presentation. We can get into a lot more detail if you would like us to. But I'll turn it over to the Commissioners. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. Rich, there's one -- I had one question emailed to me that I didn't really know how to answer. There's something about public access along the beach from the water line to something. MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure. COMMISSIONER HALL: Could you just like -- MR. YOVANOVICH: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- in a half a nutshell explain that to let the public know that they're still going to be able to walk back and forth. MR. YOVANOVICH: Absolutely. The question we received, too -- and there are other beach clubs that have -- are similarly situated. What the beach clubs do is basically keep about a 15-foot-wide Page 93 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 82 sandy beach area available for the public to continue to walk up and down the beach, so when you have high tide, you're not going to have to walk in the water to keep moving up and down the beach. So what the beach clubs do is basically stop putting their chairs out 15 feet -- they leave a 15-foot-wide swath of sandy beach for people to walk up and down. So nobody's going to be walking in the water. Access up and down the beach will be maintained, just like the access -- the perpendicular access points immediately adjacent to this parcel will remain in place. COMMISSIONER HALL: All right. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. We've had some -- in the distant past, we've had some complaints with some of the hotels actually blocking public access. Florida law just changed, I think, this past year to make it clear that the public does have the right to -- MR. YOVANOVICH: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- traverse the beach. And so we're -- just for the public's interest, we do make sure that that right of passage along the beach is not impinged by anybody. MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct. And we're not seeking to change the public's ability to walk up and down the beach. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. MR. YOVANOVICH: The public's not using this area anyway to lay out because they're uncomfortable laying out in someone's backyard, but they will continue to be able to walk up and down the beach. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi, do you have a staff report? MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. Staff is recommending approval of the rezone. It's consistent with the GMP. And would note that there were 15 conditions of approval that have been agreed upon by the applicant, and staff is Page 94 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 83 recommending approval of the conditional use subject to those 15 additional restrictions that we think provide for a good -- a good match within this area in terms of the shuttling of the participants. And the aspect -- on the north side of this property when they showed the overview of the site plan, you could see there's a 10-foot public beach access that's being maintained so people can be able to access the beach on the north side of their property. So beach access is not going to be prohibited by this -- by this project. And with that, staff would entertain any questions that you may have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I don't see any Commissioners with questions. We'll go to the public comment. We do have one gentleman that I think is in opposition to this, and I think the other speakers were all in support. Mr. Yovanovich, obviously we don't need to hear from 15 or 20 people saying the same thing. If you've got an individual that might want to carry the message, that would be helpful to us. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, could I make a comment on the record here? If anyone on Zoom is opposed to this item, could you raise your hand on the Zoom right now; that way I can determine if they're against it. I do have one. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So we're going to make sure that we hear from the folks that are in opposition to this. MR. YOVANOVICH: Do you want to hear from them first, and then I could tell you whether I want to bring up public speakers, or do you want me to send the -- we could probably put the first four or five speakers up -- or I don't want to put anybody on the spot. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I just want to -- you know, we've got a long agenda. Let's hear from the folks that are in opposition to this, and then we'll see where we go from there. MR. MILLER: Sir, you rose your hand. Could you come up, Page 95 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 84 please. What's your name, sir? MR. LOPEZ: Miguel Lopez. MR. MILLER: Okay. This is Miguel Lopez. He'll be followed on Zoom by Marsha Oenick. MR. LOPEZ: Good morning. I'm the only one that's against this thing, huh? Interesting. Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Miguel Lopez, and I'm here as a longtime resident and frequent visitor of Vanderbilt Beach. I want to share my concern that our beach, which is public by law and by tradition, is slowly being taken over by private interests. Right now Vanderbilt Beach already has three hotels, two beach clubs, two timeshares, and multiple condos. Each fills the sand with rows of lawn chairs, often empty. That's a major problem. A lot of lawn chairs and empty, just taking up space, leaving little room for everyday residents. If we continue approving private beach clubs and high-density developments, it will turn this shared beach into a patchwork of private zones. I've personally been yelled at or told to leave for simple activities like cast netting at La Playa, Floridian Club, and Gulf Point. They've all kicked me out and told me to leave because it's a private beach, and it's not. Even though the Vanderbilt Beach ordinance clearly states that beach is public from Wiggins Pass down to Marker 31.5, which is all the way down to the end of, almost, of Bay Colony. So the whole beach is basically public. That's not how a public beach should feel. Every approval sets a precedent. We're inching towards what some call Miami West, walls of condos and exclusive sand. Meanwhile, Governor DeSantis signed Senate Bill 1622 this year to reaffirm public beach access rights. So on one hand the State says public, the County ordinance says public, yet this request asks you to Page 96 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 85 approve something private. In addition, more paving, larger buildings, also worsen flooding and storm surge impacts; something we cannot ignore after the storm we faced. Commission, your decision is easy. Buy this property back from the owners, build a public beach club, have public bathrooms and bike racks, or don't approve the project. Let's keep Vanderbilt Beach the community beach it was meant to be, not another gated strip of sand. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Lopez? MR. LOPEZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just so you know, this Board is very committed to making sure the public has fully legal access to our beaches. So if you're ever ordered off of the beach because you're cast netting or doing that, if you'll let us know, we won't permit that to happen. MR. LOPEZ: I talked to Code Enforcement. I meet with Code Enforcement once every couple of months. I let them know this continues. They keep putting cones out. They keep putting signs up. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm telling you -- MR. LOPEZ: They keep kicking people off the beach. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I don't want to get into a lengthy conversation. I'm just saying, if that happens to you again, contact the County Commissioners' offices, and then we'll deal with it. MR. LOPEZ: Thank you, sir. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is Marsha Oenick. Marsha, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time. I see that you have, Marsha. You have three minutes. MS. OENICK: Hello. My name is Marsha Oenick. I live in Naples Park. I sent an email to each of you yesterday with this Page 97 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 86 request. I now put it in this public record. Vanderbilt Beach's Customary Use Ordinance 2018-31 protects the public's long-standing customary use of Vanderbilt Beach. Section 7 of the ordinance, quote, "Obstruction of Vanderbilt Beach. It shall be unlawful for any person to create, erect, or construct any fence, structure, or barrier or restraint within Vanderbilt Beach." It goes on. I'm not going to read all that. Despite this, property owners are still putting unused lounge chairs to keep the public out and unlawful activity; thus, the conditions-of-use document, Attachment C, provided by the applicant contains an alarming statement. Quote, Item 13: "Beach chairs, umbrellas, cabanas, and similar devices supplied by the club shall only be used on the beach in front of the club defined as 'beach area' enclosed by the north and south properties of the line extended to the edge of the water," unquote. While this sounds like it makes sense, may be useful to put beach chairs up, it may be used to put beach chairs to block access to the edge of the water, blocking access to areas the ordinance protects for public use. As previously indicated, unused beach chairs are often used in this manner, yes, preparing for guests. But if sitting unused, the impact is to block access. This reads to me like the club will be allowed to block access to the public to the water's edge. Will you please require the following additional item for conditional use? Item -- I had 18 based on the documents I saw -- "The club shall operate consistently with Ordinance 2018-31, with particular attention to Section 3. Vanderbilt Beach shall include not only that part of the beach seaward of the mean high-water line but also include the dry sandy area adjacent to the mean high-water line up to the vegetation line," unquote. And Section 5, "Except as provided below, the public shall have the right to recreate along all of Vanderbilt Beach. Recreation shall Page 98 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 87 include walking, jogging, sunbathing with or without a beach umbrella, picnicking, fishing, building sand castles, and other similar recreational beach activities." Probably we should all include Section 7 as well. Without explicitly including this as an item of a conditions-of-use document either as a separate item or as an addition to Item 13, it will appear to the club that the County is granting permission for the club to disregard Ordinance 2018-31, the Collier County beach customary use ordinance, and to restrict access by the public to this region of Vanderbilt Beach. Verbal assurances at the Planning Commission or here is insufficient for this or any other situation being defined by a legal ordinance with carefully constructed language. Unfortunately, this effective granting the right to block the beach will likely provide a precedent for further restrictions to Vanderbilt Beach and negate the good efforts of the County and this body to preserve Vanderbilt Beach for county residents and the tourism industry the County wishes to promote. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: That was the two in opposition, sir, that we have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Mr. Yovanovich, do you have a few speakers that are in support? Is that what you wanted to present? MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah, I'll just -- I'm just going to ask four to come up. But just -- can I make some comments in response to the two speakers before I bring my public speakers up? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure, sure. MR. YOVANOVICH: First of all, I think we would -- the last speaker, we are not going to block the water all the way -- the beach Page 99 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 88 all the way to the water. So we should modify the one condition that talks about the boundaries being to the water, to the Gulf of America, to say we will retain a 15-foot sandy beach area between the high-water line and -- we'll maintain a 15-foot sandy beach area from the high-water line. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's where? MR. YOVANOVICH: That will allow -- that will allow the public to continue to walk up and down the beach. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the high-water line with the erosion and all will change? MR. YOVANOVICH: You'll be able to see it because it's obviously the hard-packed sand. So that's why I said "white sandy beach." We'll maintain that 15-foot area. And, candidly, the public's not using any of this area right now. I could show you picture upon picture upon picture of nobody using that portion of the beach behind the homes. So we're not interfering with the historic use of the beach. In fact, we're providing more access to the beach for the public. With that, I'm just going to ask Chante Pemberton, Jim Cerkleski, Nancy Burn, and Ken Rollins [sic] -- limit it down to those four speakers. They're pretty much representative of the entirety of the -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And before the public speakers begin, Mr. Klatzkow, there was some discussion of Ordinance 2018-31, the Vanderbilt Beach access ordinance. I'm assuming that this petition is subject to that ordinance. MR. KLATZKOW: I would assume that, too, but I'd like the suspenders with the belt. And if Mr. Yovanovich agrees to that condition, I would put it in there. MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I think we need to -- the conditions we have -- what I don't want someone to come in and say Page 100 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 89 is, "Under that ordinance, you have to remove the beach chairs," because she was implying that that would be a barrier and she doesn't want any barrier. We -- all the beach clubs that are out there are permitted to put beach chairs out, and that's all we're saying. We prefer to handle it through assuring the 15-foot sandy beach area. I don't want someone to come in and say, you know, "Move the chairs. I want to play beach volleyball." That's the concern. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi, just before the speakers start, you've heard my question to the County Attorney. You've heard Mr. Yovanovich's response. Is there any concern on your part as to the blockage of public access if we approve this petition? MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. And I would agree with Attorney Klatzkow, the additional language that Rich has provided for will alleviate those concerns that staff would have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. Mr. Miller, whoever's next. MR. MILLER: Well, someone who Rich listed, please. Are you Chante? MS. PEMBERTON: Yes, thank you. MR. YOVANOVICH: Hopefully they're lined up, and I hope I didn't butcher their names too badly. MS. PEMBERTON: Chante Pemberton. I'm vice president of client relations for Paraiso Beach Club. I'm reading a letter from Mr. McGee, Mike McGee. Dear Commissioners, I purchased my home at 10150 Gulf Shore Drive in March of this year knowing a beach club may be developed across the street, and I'm very supportive of the project. My house is almost directly across the street from the club and just north on Gulf Shore Boulevard -- Gulf Shore. Having lived in and around Vanderbilt Beach area for many Page 101 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 90 years, I understand both the opportunities and challenges of our community. Living directly across from the shoreline and even with public access easements to the beach, I see firsthand how little the usable space in front of private homes is actually used. Even during the most crowded holidays, the beaches in front of Easement 4, 5, and 6 are almost never used. I saw someone on WINK News say that they use Easement No. 4 and not being able to sit there won't seem right. Easement No. 4 can still be used by everyone. If you turn right, no one is there, and everyone knows this. I'm not sure why anyone would go further from public parking and pass Easements 5, 6, and 7 with empty beaches to get to Easement No. 4. A person also mentioned his taxpayer dollars would be to groom and replenish the beach for a beach club. That may be the case with two homes, but the real estate sales taxes paid by a club would more than pay for any grooming and replenishment. In fact, the taxes paid by the club will probably be 20 times what is paid today by two homeowners. A thoughtfully managed club would give residents and members a welcoming place to enjoy the beach without feeling as though they are intruding on someone's property. It would also provide a tranquil setting where friends and neighbors can gather, which adds real value to the community. We all recognize the problem on the beach -- on the public beaches. This club offers a positive solution that will help alleviate crowding and provide an alternative for those who want to enjoy Vanderbilt Beach in a respectful and responsible way. I strongly support the process, and I hope the County approves. It would be a win for all parties involved and a meaningful addition to our neighborhood. Sincerely, Michael McGee. The second letter is from Kevin DeDonato. He's the general Page 102 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 91 manager at the Tiburon Golf Club. At Tiburon Golf Club, we currently provide shuttle service for our members and guests to the public beaches at Vanderbilt where we reserve beach chairs and umbrellas through Cabana Dan. Our parent company, Trune, has been engaged with the Paraiso Beach Club on a consulting basis and is exploring opportunities to formalize a direct relationship should the club receive the necessary approval from the County. With this in mind, if Paraiso Beach Club is approved, we would like to establish a reciprocal agreement that allows our members to visit the Paraiso Beach Club as an alternative to the public beaches. Tiburon already owns and operates its own shuttle service, which would transport members directly to and from the club. We believe this arrangement would enhance the beach experience for our members while helping to reduce congestion and parking challenges at the public access points. I strongly support the approval and the proposed beach club. Thanks. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. MS. PEMBERTON: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Sir, please state your name. MR. CERKLESKI: Hi. Jim Cerkleski. I currently live at 103 Bayview, which is about 200 feet from the proposed site, and I'm actually building the house that is directly across from the new beach club. So if anybody's affected by this -- this building, it is my family. And I will tell you that I have been very, very impressed with how these gentlemen have come and approached our neighborhood and just have been so collaborative about what they're building, and I applaud them for that. I think that, you know, the way they approached this -- at first, I'm not going to lie, my wife and I were a little nervous about, you Page 103 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 92 know, a seven-, 10-, you know, story structure going up, and they've overcome all the, you know, obstacles that we thought could be possible. It's no different than two homes going up. I am supportive because I think that right now it's an eyesore. There's an ugly house there. There's an empty lot. It's never been cleaned up. People park there all the time. I mean, just -- people come and park right on the beach right in front of my house. So this project is absolutely going to be great. I encourage everybody to support it. And I do believe that it's going to be great for our immediate community and for anybody else that chooses to join. And, you know, the comment about anybody opposing this is, well, join it, then. You can join. Anybody has the opportunity to join such an amazing beach club. So, you know, come join it and be part of something really fun. So I just thank the gentlemen for, you know, approaching us in the way they have. They'd actually gave my family the ability to still keep our view. And I can't tell you -- you know, I don't know any developer that would come to someone and say, "Hey, we want to make sure that you still have your view of the Gulf of America." And when they came to me and said -- you know, collaborated with my family and said, "We're going to keep that view for you," I support it 100 percent. It's fantastic. So it's going to be exciting. I'm really happy to support it. And I thank them for really kind of, you know, how they approached this project. So thank you. MR. MILLER: Ma'am, please state your name to begin with. MS. BURNS: Nancy Burns. I live four houses north of the proposed beach club. And I want you to know I think this is going to increase usage of that area rather than decrease. And I've lived there for 30 years. I think it's an excellent opportunity for all of us, and I Page 104 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 93 think the way they've gone about this has been exceptional. So we support it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Ma'am. MS. ROLLIN: Eileen Rollin. I live on Sea Breeze Avenue. We've lived there full-time since 2016 and owned condos on Vanderbilt Beach right down the street since 2011. And all I have to say is that our sense of community that we have is -- we don't really have one. We don't have a neighborhood gathering area for our little area where other communities do. And these developers have really given us that feeling that we're going to have this sense of community in our neighborhood. After Hurricane Ian, we all gathered in the street to see how our neighbors were doing, checking on Nancy and checking on our other neighbors who were around. And it just gives us that feeling that we have this neighborhood community place where we can gather, check on each other, be together and really, you know, spend time other than hanging out in the street. So we appreciate them for doing this project. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. ROLLIN: Thank you. My name is Ken Rollin, and I want to thank my wife for allowing me to speak. We live on Sea Breeze, and I've had condos on the Gulf Shore building. I have two of them currently. And we were displaced by Hurricane Ian, and so we lived on the beach for the last three years until recently when we moved in our house. And I consider myself an expert on Vanderbilt Beach usage because we walk that beach pretty much every day for the last three years literally hundreds of times, and usually we go -- from our Gulf Shore's building, we go south. We go all the way to the Ritz, fill up with water and come back. And I could tell you I've never been Page 105 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 94 impeded by any of the establishments, not by the Ritz, not by the Floridian, not by really anyone there, and LaPlaya. And I just want to tell you that anyone that says that beach in front of those 11 houses are being used, it's absolutely incorrect. Factually, I could tell you the use along those 11 houses is de minimis. If there's two or three, maybe four people at high season sitting in that area, that would be a lot. So the give that the public is complaining about that there's so much beach being given up, that's not true. First of all, that's still the private property. Secondly, no one's using it anyway. And let's get all those people from Naples One coming over there instead of crowding the beachhead that's already blanket to blanket. So thank you for your time. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, that's all he had lined up. If -- with your indulgence, I'd like -- we had two people on Zoom that did not raise their hand in opposition. I would like to ask them to raise their hand if they're okay waiving their time, if that's all right with you. Julie Casper and Sally Hughes, if you're okay with waiving your time to speak, please raise your hands on Zoom. They both are. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. YOVANOVICH: Mr. Chairman, that's all we have to present. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mr. Yovanovich, I just had a couple quick questions. To keep all these residents off the street, like she said -- MR. YOVANOVICH: It's a rough crowd. It's a rough crowd. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: First of all, to that one husband, we got a text from your wife. She said, "Don't let him speak," but we -- no, but one sincere question I have: Do the Page 106 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 95 residents get preference? Do they get a discount? You know, because, I mean, if you just put out an "open" sign and then all these people that live 10 miles away all of a sudden become all your members, then all the positive things that they're saying, you know, "Oh, we can't wait to, like, have this as a gathering place for our neighborhood" -- so has that been discussed so that the neighbors maybe -- MR. YOVANOVICH: I don't know that -- I don't know that we've got into that level of detail, but I can assure you that the immediate area has been actively involved in this. And we did not want to presume we had an approval, so we don't -- I don't have the list yet, but I'm sure that the people that have spoken -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, I only say that because a lot of your pro people are folks that live within walking distance, and I would hate to hear in the end that it was -- you know, the price point was beyond what they can afford or it was first come, first served, and you were bombarded by people that live at the Ritz Tiburon who wanted another private beach club, and the locals that are all on your side and -- MR. YOVANOVICH: I know -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- pushing approval, then in the end were maybe forced out, because this club only holds several hundred people, from what I understand. MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct. It's going to -- I can assure you, although it looked like a rough crowd, they were all qualified to be members and have expressed interest. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. I've had numerous emails in support of this, so I thank everybody for coming, even the person that was opposing. It's Page 107 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 96 always important to hear your input. And with that, I will make a motion to approve this beach club. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have two items. Let's make the motion -- COMMISSIONER HALL: Make the motion -- I'll amend the motion to include both items. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: 9B and 9C. MR. YOVANOVICH: And that's with the modification for the 15-foot -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's correct. COMMISSIONER HALL: Correct. MR. YOVANOVICH: -- sandy beach area, right? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And with all of the staff stipulations. We have a motion and -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- a second. Any discussion on the motion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you. Item #11H Page 108 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 97 INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY OF NAPLES FOR THE USE OF PARCEL ID 01049600004, A/K/A JOLLEY BRIDGE SITE, TO REMOVE DEBRIS AND RECEIVE/OFFLOAD PILINGS FOR THE NAPLES PIER RENOVATION. (TRINITY SCOTT, DEPARTMENT HEAD - TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT) – MOTION TO APPROVE THE SITE WITH DIRECTION TO STAFF FOR REVISION BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL - APPROVED MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, with your agreement, we do have a representative here from the City of Naples who's waiting on Item 11H, if we could jump to that one. That will leave our stormwater item for after lunch. But Item 11H is a recommendation to approve an interlocal agreement with the City of Naples for the use of Parcel ID01049600004, otherwise known as the Jolley Bridge site, to remove debris and receive offloaded -- receive/offload pilings for the Naples Pier renovation. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please quietly exit the room, we're conducting business. MS. PATTERSON: We do have Mr. Bob Middleton here from the City of Naples as well as Ms. Trinity Scott, your department head for Transportation Management services. With that, I will hand it over to Bob or Trinity. Bob, Bob. MR. MILLER: Trinity, I forgot which one it is. MS. SCOTT: For the record, Trinity Scott, Transportation Management Services department head. A few months back, the City of Naples, Mr. Middleton, was here requesting an interlocal agreement for the use of Bayview Park for the restoration of the Naples Pier. Page 109 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 98 After the Board's decision on that, Mr. Middleton reached out to me to discuss the use of the Jolley Bridge site. And so Mr. Middleton and I have been speaking over the last probably few months now regarding the use of the site, and he's here to make a presentation, and I am going to get it pulled up for him. I saw it earlier. It's gone. MR. MILLER: Exactly. MS. SCOTT: Do you have it to where you can put it up here while I look? MR. MILLER: I've got it. MS. SCOTT: Oh, there he is. What is it with you and technical difficulties? MR. MIDDLETON: I don't know. MS. SCOTT: Anyway, I'll turn it over to Mr. Middleton. There you go. MR. MIDDLETON: Good afternoon. I'm Bob Middleton, the Public Works director. This was -- that was nearly two for two for my last two appearances before you. But good morning, Chairman, Board members. This is the City's request to approve an interlocal agreement with the County to allow the use of the Jolley Bridge site for a few critical operations related to the construction of the Naples Pier. As you recall, the Naples Pier was critically damaged after Hurricane Ian, and the cost to rebuild the pier is going to be about $23 million. Thankfully, we received TDC funding from you at $2.2 million. We've also received funding from the State line-item appropriation pot of money for $5 million. We're also waiting on word from FEMA on what their donation will be to the project. I want to thank Commissioner LoCastro and Commissioner Kowal for the time they took and the efforts they provide -- provided Page 110 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 99 letters of recommendation to the Army Corps of Engineers that the pier be expeditiously repaired. Thankfully for those efforts, I wanted to announce that last week we did receive Army Corps permit for construction. We still have to hear back from FEMA, but I think they were holding out on the Corps of Engineers' approval for that. So we have that, so we're looking for additional permits from them. Two critical operations need to take place to make the pier a successful project. One is once they begin the demolition of the pier, that will be the removal of the existing concrete pilings that are there. Instead of just hauling them out and disposing of them in the landfill, a more beneficial use of that would be to place them on our existing reef that we have out in the Gulf of America. To do that, the Army Corps has got specific parameters and regulations on the cleaning and inspection of those old pilings. The Army Corps requires landside inspection of those pilings prior to deployment to the reefs. So the plan is is to -- once the contractor removes the pilings, to clean them, put them on a barge, clean them, and then take them to the Jolley Bridge site where they will be offloaded on land to allow the Army Corps representatives to inspect those pilings to make sure they're acceptable to be loaded back on the barge and then to be deployed out to the reefs. And the other critical operation besides the staging of the old pilings is to have an unloading site for staging of the new 100-foot pilings, and there will be 110 of those pilings. Alternative sites. Currently we have an interlocal agreement with the County to use the Bayview Park area to stage the non-concrete disposal -- material to be disposed from the pier and for landside disposal. We're also using the lower landings, which is within the City of Naples, near Naples Bay, to stage 120 of the 70-foot pilings that will need -- that will be required for construction of the new pier. Page 111 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 100 We'll also be storing IPE wood at that location. That was the previous material that was used in the last rebuild of the pier, and we're going back with the IPE wood for decking. Other sites, we looked at Big Carlos Pass. It was not a suitable location, and Cape Coral was not a sufficient location. To go a little bit more into the operation, Operation 1 is the reef material deployment. It will be a landside operation where the Army Corps will have a chance to inspect those pilings before they are loaded back on a barge and then for deployment. There's a possibility that they may not need to do that operation once they see what the old pilings look like. But for right now, it will be -- all the pilings will have to be inspected by the Army Corps. Cleaning and inspection of the pilings will be done prior to -- prior to that material being taken to the Jolley Bridge site. When you look at the new pilings and how they're going to be transported to this location, we're talking 110 pilings. Our plan from our contractor is that there will be three truckloads per day -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can you go back? I think you're off of the slide. I think you -- there you go. This is about what you're about to talk about. MR. MIDDLETON: About to, but I think these are -- yeah, these are the 100-foot pilings. When you look at the number of pilings and the time that we're proposing to use the landings, there's going to be 37 truckloads -- excuse me -- 37 days that trucks will be going onto Marco Island. Three trucks per day for three days per week to carry 110 pilings over the construction period of six to eight months. So we're looking at 37 days out of those six to eight months that there will be traffic from our vehicles, our trucks hauling those pilings. We've looked at the truck route. I'll show you the -- an example of where the truck route is. There's going to be no trucks on the Page 112 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 101 weekends, and like I mentioned, up to three days per week and three truckloads per day. Here is the truck route. This is a little squeezed in here, but this is the main truck route. Here's 951, or Collier Boulevard. This is the staging site where we will transfer the material. The proposed truck route right now is to go to Collier Boulevard and then turn left onto San Marcos and make another left onto Bald Eagle Drive and then make a right back out onto 951 to get the trucks headed in a northerly direction. We found that it will not be a good idea to try to unload and cross the northbound lane of 951 to get to this site. So right now this is our proposed truck route. We have been in contact with the staff at Marco Island concerning the use of the Jolley Bridge site and have had discussions with them by email on the truck route. Those Marco Island employees are the assistant city manager, Casey Lucius; Justin Martin, the Public Works director; and the chief of police, Frazzano. And we've had several emails back and forth with them. The other thing is once we get closer to issuing a notice to proceed, we will meet with those city staff to make sure that we're on the same page, if there's other alternates we need to look at as far as a truck route, but we have had communications with the Marco Island staff. This is a -- shows the location of the staging area. It's a little bit busy, but what I'll do is take you through some of the important factors on this. Number one, this location right here, or any location, we -- we will install a sign that will read something to the effect "the use of this site is in support of the historical Naples Pier rebuild project" to inform passersby as to what the operations going on there. There's going to be two double-gate 40-foot entrance and exit points, as right here and right here for trucks to enter and drop off their pilings and then to exit the site. Page 113 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 102 Over here on the south end, there's going to be a storage container, two five-gallon -- two 500-gallon double-lined fuel tanks, dual-wall fuel tanks, a porta-potty. This site right here is Site No. 6. This is where the new piles will be stored. When they come off the truck, there will be a crane working in this area, which is the crane travel area and the processing area to deploy the new pilings and to receive the old pilings, inspect them, and to put them back onto the barges. There's going to be two cranes that the contractor will use. One is a 160-foot-by-50-foot-wide barge, and a smaller barge is 130 feet by 40 foot wide. To finalize the description of this, there will be a privacy fence or a construction fence constructed -- a 6-foot fence constructed around the entire perimeter of that with the green construction silt fencing. I put this in here as just a reminder. We do have an interlocal agreement with the County to use the Bayview Park, and those are the details of it. We will be using this site for non-concrete disposal of construction debris. It will be barged to that area, and we put together a scenario and a plan of how that site will be used. Like I said, we've been in contact with the Marco Island staff. It wouldn't be prudent for us to come before you requesting this interlocal agreement had we not spoken with the Marco Island staff. And we have. They have not told us outright no. They asked us a lot of questions, so we feel very comfortable with their acceptance and participation with us on this program. So on behalf of the Mayor and the City Council, we would appreciate your consideration to approve this interlocal agreement and to complete the crucial steps in construction of the Naples Pier. I would also like to introduce some of our staff that are with us. Number one here is Bruce Selfon. He's the project manager and Page 114 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 103 assistant city manager [sic]. We've got Kevin Land with Shoreland -- Shoreline Foundations, and our consultant, Tim Hall, with Tim -- with Turrell, Hall & Associates. I believe that concludes everything. Bruce Selfon. MR. SELFON: Good morning. Thank you all. I just wanted to say I'm Bruce Selfon, the project manager for the pier. I just wanted to make sure -- one clarification. The 70-foot pilings which are going to go closer to the land are actually going to be put onto the pier by a giant crane that's going to be built on the beach with the permission of the FAA, and that's how those piles are going to be placed. The 100-footers, which are going farther out into the gulf, cannot be placed by the crane. That's why we absolutely have to have a barge that takes them from where they're placed onto the pier for installation by two cranes that will be farther out in the water. So I just wanted to clarify that as much as we could, the staging -- we're giving the contractor two-thirds of the pier parking lot. We're giving them a staging area on 12th Avenue South. We're using lower landings, which is available for storage. Of the City sites which were available to us, we are utilizing completely for their support, but we need your support for the use of this county site in order to make this all work. Thank you all very much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. You-all know the pier and the City falls within my District 4, and I've been involved in this since day one trying to help move this project along. I know permitting was one of the big things that we had issues with the Army Corps. And I just want to address -- I mean, I under -- we were talking Page 115 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 104 about the reef sites. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't -- the reef sites, those are actually going to use our -- the County's locations and the County's permits, so it's actually a joint operation. It's actually a partial County operation using this site, let alone just the reconstruction of the pier, which everybody uses in this county. It's such an icon in a tourist location. But that -- isn't that true that the actual -- MR. SELFON: Yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- sites where the reefs -- artificial reefs are going to be created are on -- they're piggybacking on our permits because ours were still in force. We haven't been using them. So this is a good opportunity to go out and start using them on these locations under our permitting. MR. SELFON: Yeah. So all the -- there are four county sites and two city sites that are in our permissions that we send to the federal authorities. We have to dive on the sites to see which ones are suitable under the new Army regs, but we're going to use whatever is the most cost effective and available. You have to have flat, sandy area. You can't have area to put the pilings where there could be encroachment onto marine life. So it's all very regulated. We actually have to have a diver every day dive on the site to make sure there's nothing down there that's come since the last time we've been there. It's very labor intensive but very important from a sustainability point of view. That's why we're trying to work with everyone to accomplish it. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So this is -- so, basically, this is a pretty public project. It's not a private project. It's public for the County and public for the City, you know, and we're getting the opportunity to do something we've, you know, had the -- you know, in place to do it for some time, and this is going to help us fulfill that mission with using our permit. Page 116 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 105 The other thing is I have a little history in traffic control and things like that. I know these trucks don't just roll up here, you know, in a whim. You know they're coming. They're usually escorted by other vehicles with emergency lights and flags and long oversize load -- basically like a convoy coming in. So these are not, like, just -- they're going to show up with -- this big [sic] tractor-trailer show up with 100-foot pier on it. My thing is -- we're almost overthinking this to a point. We do construction all the time. We have, from time to time, lane closures, things like that pertaining to construction. We're talking three times a day, 37 days out of this whole project at the most, or around that number. Wouldn't it just make sense -- there's a cut-through to the north of this location with no other side streets, so there's nothing that could get on the streets from the northbound lanes at that cut-through, and it's north of our Collier County deepwater launch area, which you keep referring to as the area we want to use as a staging area near the Jolley Bridge. And this is all on county property. This is all on the County's side of the bridge. Wouldn't it be easier just to have a couple detail deputies on the day the trucks arrive? We just shut the street down, put some information signs one side of the Jolley Bridge, one on the other, let them know that on certain days traffic will be interrupted momentarily. And then we shut the street down. They run down the opposite side of the road, and they pull into the spot, and it's a done deal. Wait for the next truck. And then -- we're not -- we're not, like, going into the City of Marco and going through all these streets, making this extremely large thing with this caravan of trucks. To me, that just makes sense. It's not like we don't do it on a regular basis when it comes to construction. Even when we do maintenance on the side of the roads, we shut certain lanes down, you know, periodically. Page 117 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 106 So this isn't -- to me, I don't believe it's that much of a burden on the traffic; that they know ahead of time that at certain times there's going to be a delay. And to drive a truck a thousand feet down the opposite side of the lane with no traffic doesn't take that long. And once they're in, they're in. Then the road's back open again. So I was just throwing it out there. MR. SELFON: Thank you, Commissioner. We considered the option of crossing the median, which is there, and seeing if we could have some direct access. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm not talking about the cut-through close to the Jolley Bridge. If you go north -- MR. SELFON: Right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- about a quarter of a mile, there's a big cut-through. You stop the traffic there, you stop the traffic back at the loading site. Not near the bridge, because the bridge would be a little bit more hazardous because they come over the bridge. You still have a grace period before they have to stop where the site is itself, where the loading -- offloading site in the deepwater launch. Some people think of the one right under the bridge. This is not the one. This one's further up the street. So that gives you a grace period that they know they're going to be stopping and they see the sign on the other side of the bridge. The sign's then illuminated saying, hey, you know, then the traffic's stopped momentarily while the truck comes down the opposite lane, and it pulls into the site. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me -- if I might -- because we're not going to solve your transportation problem here on the fly. But perhaps you could work with City staff to come up with a better -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I just -- because I know he was saying they don't have a concrete answer from Marco yet, and Page 118 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 107 I'm just saying there's another option. We don't even have to include Marco into this whole thing. MR. SELFON: As I said -- and you have Ms. Scott here, your Transportation. All I would say is that we were advised at the start to -- especially since we're going to be doing this during season -- to try to get off the beach before the beginning of the next turtle season, that we would be significantly impacting traffic both ways in and out Marco Island, and if we could avoid that, we would, and that we also said there was FDOT issues in getting permissions, and it was an uncertain time frame from FDOT. So it seems to us -- and we could be wrong, and you'll certainly advise us -- that the least painful alternative were these 110 truckloads with, as you suggested, Commissioner, a truck with an escort fore and aft that would come through on 36 days spread over the six- to eight-month period, and making left turns, which I'm told are the easiest turns for the trucks to make, except for the final right-turn lane [sic] back onto 41. And then, of course, when they leave, it's only a one-way operation. They don't go through Marco except on the way in. So that was the -- what we were told is the preferred choice, and that's where we are at the moment. But, you know, we'll take advice from everyone, and thank you for the suggestion. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman. I did write a professional but very strong letter to the Army Corps who I have a lot of previous experience with, and they actually replied back to me personally and I appreciated it. And hopefully what Commissioner Kowal did and what you-all did helps speed everything along; however, this Jolley Bridge is in my district, okay. And so -- and nobody wants the pier built more than everybody who lives here, and we know we've got to sometimes, as I always say, eat Page 119 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 108 the spinach a little bit because sometimes there's no easy way to do it. But as I've told Trinity Scott, I'm disappointed that something a lot less intrusive hasn't been put together. I won't vote for this. So maybe in the interest of time, the other commissioners will say, "Well, you guys will just work all the details out." Well, it won't be with my vote, because I live on Marco, and cutting trucks all the way through the island because we can't figure out -- you guys can't figure out some way to have an easier cut-through or to stop traffic. I like what Commissioner Kowal is suggesting, and maybe this isn't the meeting to do your homework for you. But I can tell you, three trucks in the middle -- right now Collier Boulevard in the entrance to Marco Island -- and I realize your trucks aren't coming tomorrow, but right now it's half closed because they're doing a big, you know, water pipe construction project and a bunch of other things. You might be talking to the lower staff, but I can tell you right now you don't have City Council approval. And until you have that where they say, "Oh, yeah, we think three trucks a day traversing the entire island because they can't do a U-turn or they can't make a left turn is just fine" -- and I think our approval today of the barge plan implies that we're approving the whole plan. And then hear me out on the barges. I was hoping that there would be a lot less intrusive -- or a lot more advantageous area somewhere maybe north of the pier, and you're saying there isn't. But when you load those barges there -- I'm very familiar with this area. When you load the barges there, here's what's going to happen in season: The barges going to and from then go under the Jolley Bridge, which isn't the Sunshine Skyway. It's actually -- the entrance and exit underneath the Jolley Bridge is actually pretty narrow. And when you have three or four fishing boats coming in and out of there at will, the -- they're not all just going to get out of the way because a Page 120 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 109 giant barge is coming through with construction materials. But if the barge is headed to the pier -- so it goes under a tight Jolley Bridge for the size of the barge, then it has to go by the yacht club, then it has to go by Rose Marina on its way out to the Gulf of America. Then as it gets out to the gulf, it makes a right-hand turn, and it goes all the way by Keewaydin where in season sometimes there's a thousand boats out there, usually people sometimes that aren't very expert in, you know, driving a boat. People that rent boats at Rose Marina a lot of times are folks that, you know, come here from Wisconsin, rent a boat, and they're out there. And maybe we've had issues, some safety issues. So you have a major barge that's fully loaded traversing one of the most busy waterways as it goes all the way out to the pier, passing very, very busy places where boats are just sort of coming willy-nilly. And, you know, I don't hear anything in your plan that says that barge is going to be led by some sort of police boat or something. I mean, when we see doublewide trailers coming down I-75, there's a pickup truck with giant lights that says, "Get out of the way," you know, we're riding on two lanes. You need something like that for the barge. And then once the trucks start coming, the sheer fact that you're talking to people at the staff on Marco -- I can tell you, you don't have approval from the elected city council members, and they're -- they're our counterparts. So you're asking for our permission for this plan. And I'm not trying to stop the rebuild of the pier, but I want to make sure we just don't sort of rubber stamp with minimal thought, and then it's the citizens on Marco, in my district, that heard nothing about three trucks a day going all the way around the circumference of the island just so they can get to the base of the Jolley Bridge that the trucks just passed but couldn't do something creative like Page 121 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 110 Commissioner Kowal said. I had even said, why don't we cut out a part of that middle island. They make an immediate left turn, then they exit, and then that small part of the island is reconstructed. And I was told that's impossible. But I don't think this is well thought out. I think there's a lot of safety concerns. And when a big chunk of this affects Marco Island and you've talked to Casey and a few staff members, that doesn't give me confidence that you have, you know, their support. So you have, you know, my support to rebuild the pier. And I don't know every footprint in all of Collier and Lee County of where other places exist. The Jolley Bridge, a lot of times, is a quick default because it's been used in the past, but we've tried to protect that area from just, you know, willy-nilly using it. This is a -- you know, for the public good, so I get that, but I think when it comes to safety, the traversing of the island, how all these things are going to come together, especially in season, I don't believe it's well thought out. And I realize you're not doing it tomorrow, but that's why I told even Ms. Scott, I think you-all coming to this Board of County Commissioners meeting today is premature because I want to hear that everything's been, you know, marked out. And our approval today would send a signal to some of the people that haven't, you know, given the approval for this that we've given the approval. And we can't speak for Marco Island. So the minute you hit that Jolley Bridge, all of a sudden the County's out of it. And I was hoping you would come here with the city manager from Marco saying, you know, "Oh, we've thought all this out. We're going to have a lead with police cars. We're going to block off roads. We're going to do it safely." If I briefed this right now to every citizen on Marco Island, their heads would explode. Now, if the City Council briefed it and sold it and said, "Hey, Page 122 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 111 we're all trying to be good stewards to fix the pier" -- but this won't get my vote today. There's too many unanswered questions, and there's some major safety issues. And I think we're sort of defaulting to what's the easiest thing and with little thought to how it would impact traffic, citizens, safety, and all the above. So I mean -- I wrote a letter to the Army Corps, so I'm obviously in favor of the pier, but I think it's got to be done, you know, correctly and smartly and also with thought to the impact to our citizens and with the approval of groups it's going to affect, most notably Marco Island. And I know you don't have that yet. I know that for sure. So it won't get my vote today. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Trinity, if you would, please, because I'm sitting here -- and I would like to approve your plan. Nobody wants to delay, at all, the reconstruction of our pier, but I actually have on my note, well, why aren't we just doing a temporary crossing on the median at 951, the median that's there. Tear it up, put a gravel road in, do the traffic control as has been -- has been suggested by three of us now -- have a temporary crossing over their median. And then we'll restore it after we're all done. We're only talking about, like you said, three trips a day over a certain period of time. Have the proper traffic control, and then -- and now, if there's some -- and if I'm not mistaken -- I don't want to hear DOT won't approve us crossing that median, because that's a county road. MS. SCOTT: I'm sorry, sir. You're not correct on that. That is state road. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Dang it. Dang it. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It changes. It goes county, state, county, state. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't write that down. Page 123 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 112 COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But I bet from a safety point -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't write that down. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- if they knew were maybe traversing all of Marco Island, I think from a safety -- I knew you were going to say that because I know it's not a county road. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let me go here. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I apologize, because I had County Road 951 in my brain. So let's -- because I absolutely concur. A hundred-foot tractor-trailer trying to traverse Marco Island on limited space two-lane roads making left turns, yes, we all know about that, but that's not going to be -- that's not going to be any day at the beach in and of itself. There's three of us here that are talking a different truck route needs to be solved. I'd be happy to pass this forward holding back that approval of that truck route and come up with an alternative to be able to get in to access to the point, either what Commissioner Kowal said or tell the dang State to get out of the way and let us cross the median for six, eight months to rebuild our pier. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me make a suggestion, if I could, because obviously there's a transportation problem that needs to be fully evaluated. Today we're asked whether or not they can use this particular site for staging. I think we can get through that hurdle but also with instructions to our staff to work with the City staff and the Marco Island staff to come up with a better way to get the trucks in and out of there. To try to solve that at this time is going to be impossible. So if the Board is okay with that -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd be -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm okay. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that was kind of what I was suggesting is, you know, approve the utilization of the site but Page 124 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 113 figure out a different way to get the trucks in and out. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. If there's -- see if there's a motion to do that and with the direction for our staff to help solve this transportation problem. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll make a motion to what the Chairman has stated. For today we will take a vote for the site itself -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- and then we have staff and everybody re-think this route. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: The only caveat I'll say -- and you'll get my vote for that. I think that's a good compromise, but I think you've got to put some thought into how that barge is going to then leave that site and traverse. You know, this is a perfect map. It is traversing the busiest waterways, especially in season, many times with unskilled boaters, and the largest thing that's going to be plowing through this area is going to be that barge fully loaded. So I don't know if it needs some sort of, like I said, police boat escort or something ahead to make sure there's not something in the way. A lot of kayakers are even out in the area, and they can't get out of the way of a barge. We have one accident, one fatality, a whole bunch of smart people are going to come in here and say, "I can't believe nobody in this room was smart enough to make sure safety was the No. 1 concern." And I think you've got -- I know you have several loose safety items. So I'll support it. I know the barge isn't coming tomorrow, but I'm going to be, like, on top of this tight and very vocal, and I hope I don't have to be, because I hope as you work through those things -- the voting on the trucks and everything, that should be a separate vote on our part, and it sounds like the Chairman is -- that's Page 125 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 114 what he's suggesting, and I would concur with that, but I still think barge-wise, you guys have got some loose ends that could result in a real tragedy. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. COMMISSIONER HALL: I second the motion. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If not, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. So you can use the facility, but there's a real need to make sure that the transportation issue is resolved. And our staff will work with you, as well as the Marco Island staff, to make sure that we have a safe approach both on land and also on the water. MR. SELFON: Thank you very much. I made the same mistake -- excuse me -- made the same misassumption that commissioner said that -- hoped it was a county road, and I was already planning how the gravel was going to go, and then I was told -- FDOT in an uncertain future. But we're going to explore all those opportunities and do our very best to make sure that we are able to -- and necessary for us to traverse the Jolley Bridge. We appreciate your support for the pier. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Ms. Scott, if you could report Page 126 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 115 back to us as this evolves. All right. We're going to take a lunch break. MR. SELFON: Thank you all. MR. MIDDLETON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've got a lot of work to do this afternoon. But would 45 minutes be enough for lunch, or do we need a full hour? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Sure. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's come back at 1 o'clock. (A luncheon recess was had from 12:20 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.) Item #8A RESOLUTION 2025-216: A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, GRANTING A WAIVER FROM THE MINIMUM REQUIRED SEPARATION OF 500 FEET BETWEEN FACILITIES WITH FUEL PUMPS PURSUANT TO SECTION 5.05.05.B OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, FOR FUEL PUMPS AT A COSTCO WHOLESALE, WITH RESULTING SEPARATION OF 132 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE EXISTING 7- ELEVEN. THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN THE COMMERCIAL TRACT OF THE HACIENDA LAKES MIXED USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (MPUD) LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF COLLIER BOULEVARD AND RATTLESNAKE HAMMOCK ROAD IN SECTION 23, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF +/-25.86 ACRES OF THE +/-2,262 ACRE MPUD. (PL20240011790) (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO 9.A. PDI-PL20240011559) – Page 127 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 116 MOTION TO APPROVE WITH CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - ADOPTED 5/0 – MOTION TO APPROVE THE INSUBSTANTIAL CHANGES TO THE PUD BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL Item #9A ORDINANCE 2025-47: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 11-41, AS AMENDED, THE HACIENDA LAKES MIXED-USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT, TO APPROVE AN INSUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO THE PUD, TO ADD DEVIATIONS FOR RELIEF FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE RELATING TO ARCHITECTURAL GLAZING STANDARDS, BUILDING FAÇADE MASSING, LIGHT FIXTURE HEIGHTS, LOADING SPACES, LANDSCAPE STANDARDS FOR INTERIOR VEHICULAR USE AREAS, AND SIGNAGE, AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. THE SUBJECT PARCEL IS IN THE COMMERCIAL TRACT OF THE MPUD LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF COLLIER BOULEVARD AND RATTLESNAKE HAMMOCK ROAD IN SECTION 23, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF +/-25.86 ACRES OF THE +/-2,262 ACRE MPUD. (PL20240011559) (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO 8.A. ASW-PL20240011790) MOTION TO APPROVE WITH CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - ADOPTED 5/0 – MOTION TO APPROVE THE INSUBSTANTIAL CHANGES TO THE PUD BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL Page 128 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 117 MS. PATTERSON: Chair -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the meeting of the County Commission will please come to order. Ms. Patterson, where are we on the agenda? I think we have a Costco item up sometime this afternoon; is that correct? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, we do. That brings us exactly to our 1 o'clock time-certain. And bear with me while I read these two companion items into the record. Items 9 -- 8A and 9A are companion items. Starting with 8A, this is a recommendation to approve a resolution of the Board of Zoning Appeals of Collier County, Florida, granting a waiver from the minimum required separation of 500 feet between facilities with fuel pumps pursuant to Section 5.05.05.B of the Land Development Code for fuel pumps at Costco Wholesale with resulting separation of 132 feet from the property line of the existing 7-Eleven. The property is located in the commercial tract of the Hacienda Lakes Mixed Use Planned Unit Development located at the southeast corner of the intersection of Collier Boulevard and Rattlesnake Hammock Road in Section 23, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida, consisting of plus/minus 25.86 acres of the plus/minus 2,262-acre MPUD. Its companion item is Item 9A. This is a recommendation to approve an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 11-41, as amended, the Hacienda Lakes Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development, to approve an insubstantial change to the PUD to add deviations for relief from the Collier County Land Development Code relating to the architectural glazing standards, building facade massing, light fixture heights, loading spaces, landscape standards for interior vehicle use areas and signage, and providing for an effective date. The project parcel is in the commercial tract of the MPUD Page 129 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 118 located at the southeast corner of the intersection of Collier Boulevard and Rattlesnake Hammock Road in Section 23, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida, consisting of plus/minus 25.86 acres of the 2,262-acre MPUD. This will require disclosures from the Commissioners and for all participants to be sworn in by the court reporter. We'll start with the Commissioners. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Kowal, disclosures. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. I have, on 8A and 8 -- 9A, meetings, correspondence, and emails. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Same. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Same. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And, Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I have the same disclosures as well. MS. PATTERSON: Very good. If all participants could stand to be sworn in by the -- raise your right hand and be sworn in by the court reporter; this includes any public speakers that will be speaking today as well. THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? (The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. For planning purposes, we'll hear the -- both items together, but we'll take separate votes on these when it comes down to that. Page 130 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 119 MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. And we will begin with the applicant. Sir. MR. WESTER: Good afternoon. My name is Brad Wester, vice president of land use at Driver, McFee, Hawthorn & Diebenow. That is 1 Independent Drive, Suite 1200 in Jacksonville, Florida 32202. Correct, I'll be describing this in total with one full presentation, and then we can go back to any of the slides as needed for questions and answers or any other redirect based on exhibits or testimony. As mentioned, this is a waiver from the minimum required separation of 500 feet between facilities with fuel pumps pursuant to the Land Development Code Section 5.05.05.B for a Costco Wholesale gas facility with the resulting separation distance of 132 feet from the property line of the existing 7-Eleven parcel. Additionally, this is also a PDI, which is an insubstantial change to the Hacienda Lakes MPUD to add deviations for relief from architectural glazing standards, building facade massing, light fixture heights, loading spaces, landscape standards for interior vehicular use areas, for additional parking and signage. Background and entitlements. The County's Growth Management Plan designated the subject property a mixed-use activity center, specifically Subdistrict 7 since the plan's adoption in 1989. The subject property is in the commercial tract of the Hacienda Lakes Mixed Use PUD and DRI since its adoption in 2011 and as amended. Hacienda Lakes MPUD is approved for 327,500 square feet of commercial uses, 70,000 square feet of office, 140,000 square feet of business park, 135 hotel rooms, and 1,760 residential units. A warehouse retail store and gas facility are permissible commercial uses allowed by right in the Hacienda Lakes PUD. Here is the subject property. I think we're all aware of that. Page 131 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 120 This is a graphic depiction of the activity centers. The map on the left shows one of the adopting maps from the activity centers in the Growth Management Plan, and then the one on the right shows it colorized, noting the subject property itself as a commercial district in the activity center. This property -- this graphic highlights the subject property in relation to the overall activity center, and then more specifically the activity center subdistrict are based on the highlighted elements here. Locations are based on intersections of major roads and on spacing criteria. Number 7, Rattlesnake Hammock Road and Collier Boulevard, that is the subject activity center. The mixed-use activity center concept is designed to concentrate almost all new commercial zoning in locations where traffic impacts can readily be accommodated to be interconnected with abutting parcels and projects, whether commercial or residential, allow the land uses in the mixed-use activity centers, include a full array of commercial uses, residential uses, institutional uses, hotel and motel, with a maximum density up to 26 per acre and other land uses as generally allowed in the Urban designation. In closing, with the highlighted area on the right, the maximum amount of commercial uses allowed in the activity center is 40 acres per quadrant, and specifically for our subject area, the southeast quadrant may have a total of 49.2 acres, and I'll describe the significance of that. Highlighted here is the actual Hacienda Lakes MPUD or an acceptor -- a portion of the entire MPUD. This graphic shows the subject property in relation to the commercial designated tract in the MPUD. You can see that there with the various access points that are contemplated for access to various surrounding parcels for interconnectivity. Page 132 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 121 These next slides show the list of permissible uses in the MPUD. Highlighted now is miscellaneous retail. And you can see the SIC codes associated with that, which the County has already deemed that the Costco fits that. Other uses, similar to automotive repair services, parking, food stores, gasoline service stations, general merchandise, home furnishing, and the like, and including any other commercial use which is comparable in nature. You could say there are more than 90 potential uses that are allowed, including residential, as permissible uses on this property, which shows the context of the mixture of uses allowed by right. This is a drawdown schedule from the County staff itself showing the square footage request in relationship to what is permitted and entitled, which is 327,500 square feet. Our request, which is the architectural envelope of the building, 156,000 plus/minus square feet, then the remaining allocated development rights for the overall PUD for retail square footage, 170,000. So we're under 50 percent of that threshold. I'd like to turn your attention to the other elements in this as well. You can see committed total dwelling units -- committed dwelling units and the total available. Still allowed in this PUD, 132 total single-family, 670 multifamily, 130 ACLF. We've already talked about the retail commercial; 70,000 office and medical; 140,000 business park; and 135 hotel. That is what is allowed by right as far as remaining allocated development rights. Here's a graphic of the separation distances from our request, and please note this is from parcel to parcel. So it's lot line to lot line. You can see the 7-Eleven and the Racetrac. And this -- the context of this, we're asking for a separation waiver from the 7-Eleven parcel itself. We are about 132 feet plus or minus from that property line, but Page 133 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 122 as noted, our subject property is roughly 25 acres. On the right, you can see there we're roughly, from property line to property line, 330 feet from the existing multifamily and 720 feet from the existing single-family. Criteria for review in the ASW. There's a specific section in the code that says if you apply for waiver, you should adhere to the certain criteria which this application is judged by. Specifically, in this section, 5.05.05.B.2.a.i, such boundary, structure, or other feature may include but is not limited to lakes, marshes, non-developable wetlands, designated preserve areas, canals, and a minimum of a four-lane arterial or collector right-of-way, which is describing the natural or manmade boundaries or structures that separate fuel facilities. Rattlesnake Hammock Road is a designated four-lane divided Class 3 arterial. The divided roadway median and right-of-way edges are grassed and landscaped with trees currently, which provides additional buffer and screening. Three hundred seventy-five to 400 feet is the distance between the actual serviceable canopy uses between the existing 7-Eleven canopy, not the property line, and our proposed gas canopy. Approximately 500 feet by 25 feet is the enhanced landscape buffer abutting the gas facility along Rattlesnake Hammock Road, and that's essentially what was proffered at the Planning Commission hearing, to add an additional landscaping buffer around the perimeter of the property. 5.05.B.2.a.ii, whether the facility with fuel pumps is only engaged in the servicing of automobiles during regular daytime business hours or if in addition to or in lieu of servicing, the facility with fuel pumps sells food, gasoline, and other convenience items during the daytime, nighttime, or a 24-hour basis. The gas facility is member-based. The gas facility does not sell Page 134 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 123 gas on a 24-hour basis. The gas facility does not sell food or convenience items and does not provide vehicle repair on the property itself. As far as the gas pod, the gas facility's open for business during daytime hours and closes approximately one and a half hours after the warehouse. The lights do turn off when the gas facility closes for business except for security lighting, which is nominal. Continuing with the criteria, 5.05.B.2.a.iii, whether the gas facility with fuel pumps is located in a shopping center primarily accessed by a driveway or if it fronts on and it's accessed directly from a platted road right-of-way. The gas facility is part of a retail shopping center, the Costco Wholesale center. Location, on the commercial tract in the MPUD and activity center. The gas facility is not accessed directly from the platted road right-of-way. It does not have its own specific dedicated driveway to Rattlesnake. The gas facility is accessed through interior circulation drive aisles, and that's important. I'll show this in a minute. The gas facility has a one-way traffic circulation with adequate well-planned and engineered queuing and pass-by through lanes separate from the main parking and circulation areas. Continuing with the criteria. 5.05.B.2.a.iv, whether the granting of the distance waiver will have an adverse impact on adjacent land uses, especially residential land uses. You'll note I italicize those, okay. We are knowledgeable of the adjacency factors regarding this request in our justification. The use of this consistent -- is consistent with the Growth Management Plan and activity center designations as adopted and as an allowed use on the commercial tract in the Hacienda Lakes PUD. The property is approximately 330 feet from existing Page 135 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 124 multifamily residential and approximately 720 feet from the existing single-family residential to the east separated from existing residential by enhanced buffers, a 170-foot FP&L easement, parcels of land in the MPUD, and existing roads and development. The p.m. peak-hour trips are below the approved MPUD max thresholds. There is an adequate queuing vehicle facility in the gas pod itself. Rattlesnake Hammock Road will operate at only approximately 37 percent of its total capacity with the gas facility and the wholesale store. It is not adversely impacted. The use will not cause adverse lighting or noise impacts to adjacent areas and/or residential areas to the east. Environmental and stormwater standards will meet and exceed state and federal requirements, and the granting of the ASW is not in violation of any Florida Statute in that no state statute or rule exists prohibiting gas facilities within 500 feet of each other like this request. Specific to adjacency regarding the criteria. 5.05.05.B.2.a.iv, again, the adjacency of land use, especially residential land uses. The County's definition of adjacent is: To share a common boundary line -- a property line or boundary or to be separated by a public right-of-way easement or water body. Again, I'll describe that in context graphically in a minute. We're also asking for a PDI, which is an insubstantial change to the PUD. We're asking for a relief from maximum light pole height of 25 feet. The 25-foot standard will add up to nine more light poles and 15 fixtures on the site. The requested 36 and a half height allows for a reduced number of poles and reduces visual clutter and still exceeds the minimum lighting standard for the foot candles at the property edge. And I'll show that. We are 0.0 foot-candles along the eastern property boundary. Relief from the additional requirement to obtain a variance and Page 136 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 125 provide double the interior landscaping if the commercial project includes more than 120 percent of the required parking. The relief will not require a variance and allow the normal landscape requirements to apply to this commercial project. A hundred and forty-nine spaces are depicted as overflow and provided in an existing FP&L utility easement. Six hundred seventy spaces are proposed outside of that easement in the main development area, which is only 130 -- 103 percent of the max parking standard, but it is below the 120 percent threshold on site. The property will include, by way of a proffer at the Planning Commission hearing, an additional 25 percent landscaping along select well-planned perimeter areas of the property. Number 3, relief from the minimum loading space requirements. The County has a rule, if you're a certain square footage, you must have a certain number of loading docks. The requested five truck loading spaces are the standard amount for Costco Wholesale. We will have four at the store itself and one at the gas facility. The required code amount is excessive, and it's up to eight and not warranted for this Costco Wholesale use. This is an architectural deviation from the facade requirement for 15 percent of the glazing, which is glass in architectural terms, on primary facades for a reduction from at the total 45 percent for all facades to a total of 23 percent. The building will incorporate planted metal trellises structurally attached to the building facade as an alternative to glazing in certain areas. This approach will mitigate the absence of glazing as much as possible in alignment with the project program while also contributing to the architectural aesthetics and functionality. Five, relief from the variations of the massing of 150-foot break. For the variation of the massing, the structural attached planted trellises provide an elevation break for visual interest variations along Page 137 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 126 the facade. They are also strategically placed to work with the project's program while contributing to the architectural aesthetics and meeting the spirit and intent of the requirement. Number 6, and finally, relief in the max signage requirement in nonresidential districts for a total of 301 square feet over the maximum combined 500 square feet. This signage square-foot increase is commensurate with the size of the building space for the increased visibility for promotion and way-finding based on the orientation. Additionally, two wall signs were removed from the building on the east-facing elevation toward the residential areas and the south-facing elevation toward the hospital. Those were done as a proffer with the Planning Commission. There are no monument signs and no pole signs associated with the store or gas facility in this request. The only signage will literally be on the building. Here's a depiction of the actual PDI site plan. It is under consideration now with all of the labeling. And this is a rendered version of that same site plan. So it's a lot easier on the eyes with this coloration showing the building, the gas facility, the parking fields, the buffers and green spaces and the stormwater pond and the other associated infrastructure. I will come back to this in a minute. Here's our parking map deviation. So you see the purple shade, essentially, is all of the parking that's underneath the Florida Power & Light easement, and the blue is on the property itself. This is a -- from our landscape architect. This is a depiction of the increased landscape buffer. So there is a green line that is highlighted around this -- this area. And that is kind of an enhancement area where we're adding additional landscaping in addition to the gas pod, essentially everything that's on the frontage Page 138 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 127 and the perimeter, specifically highlighting the perimeters adjacent to the neighboring uses to the east. This is the elevation showing our Costco Wholesale signage requests, and it shows the different depictions and different elevations of the signage. Lighting, this is our engineering photometrics plan. This is done by our photometrics consultant. And the metric here is to not exceed 20 foot-candles under the canopy per average, and we are at 19.5 foot-candles average light level under the canopy itself. More specifically, these are depictions of that same photometrics plan on the property edges on the easternmost portion of the property, okay, in context to the neighboring uses to the east. So we are at 0.0-foot candles on the northeast corner, on the eastern edges, and then the southwest corner along the hospital properties, 0.0. Traffic circulation. Indirect access via internal circulation vehicular use areas. We have one-way traffic flow into the gas facility itself with ample stacking and queuing specific to the gas facility. Dedicated pass-through reliever lanes between the fuel items also exist. They are separate and safe for fueling space, and there's no sale of convenience items, no cash, no vehicle repair services in the gas pod. Continuing with parking and traffic circulation. The Hacienda Lakes MPUD has a max vehicle trip generation cap of 3,328 p.m. peak-hour trips. The Costco Wholesale and gas facility will generate 511 p.m. peak-hour trips. Traffic is below the adopted p.m. peak-hour thresholds in total, and at the buildout and opening of the Costco Wholesale and gas facility, the total trips on Rattlesnake Hammock Road will still only be at approximately 37 percent of the road's total capacity. That's after the warehouse and the gas are opened if this were approved. The DRI -- continuing with gas circulation and parking. The Page 139 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 128 DRI required improvements for certain roadways and peak-hour trip capacities. But based on the Commitment 1, roadway improvement to Rattlesnake Hammock Road, the owner shall be allowed to develop up to 327,500 square feet of retail commercial land uses in residential or residential Pod A or a combination of the two land uses. The current commercial square-foot request and the existing dwelling units built are under the adopted 1,409 p.m. peak-hour trips on this segment of Rattlesnake Hammock Road, and that's a key metric there. You can see the graphics there showing the obligations to build the infrastructure associated with the relief of certain square footages or dwelling unit counts or combination thereof. And this closes it out. Based on the Commitment No. 3 roadway improvements, which extended Rattlesnake Hammock Road to its current terminus, the owner shall be allowed to develop the following land uses: 20,000 square feet of general office, 50,000 square feet of medical office -- that's a typo there with the No. 0 -- 135-room hotel, 327,500 square feet of retail commercial, Residential Pods A and B, remaining residential within the activity center land use, and 919-student elementary school. The roadway infrastructure has been built and dedicated to accommodate the uses as described in the DRI and the MPUD. Again, highlighting the drawdown spreadsheet from the county staff, 327,500 square feet total, Costco is requesting 156,866, and remaining is 170,000, so we are under 50 percent of that max. And finally, Hacienda Lakes, LLC, and its successors and assigns has a joint-use agreement with the hospital, and it has been recorded in the public records, and it includes this legal description and the survey noting this access into the loop road from Rattlesnake Hammock for interconnectivity. There will be three ingress and egress points shared access -- with the access agreement from Physicians Regional. There Page 140 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 129 are three on the Costco site, two that access Rattlesnake Hammock and one to the hospital property. And the approved MPUD contemplated up to five access points on this property, including two to the hospital. The hospital itself we've worked with. We've whittled it down to one that is needed for the interconnectivities of the Costco parcel, and again, that's recorded in the public records right now. Talking about environmental and gas operations, Costco's philosophy is to obey the law, be safe, clean, and reliable, protect the environment, sell high-quality fuel, never be undersold, and provide courteous assistance. The gas facility will include equipment of the latest technology with many safety features to prevent potential environmental impacts and meets and exceeds local, state, and federal requirements, which include extensive leak detection systems monitored remotely 24/7/365. Interactive and constant Fire Protection Act and API and in-house safety training for all employees. Training includes high standards for emergency spill response, automatic and manual cutoff systems, vapor recovery for fugitive emission controls that exceed local, state, and federal standards. Closed-circuit TV monitoring and an oil/water separator, or OWS, system for stormwater drainage. I'll describe that more. And this will be operated as a self-service facility for members with full-time specially trained Costco attendant for safety and security. Continuing with environmental protection. Underground storage tanks and piping are double-walled and constantly monitored for integrity, meeting or exceeding all federal UST leak detection standards. All tanks are equipped with stage-one enhanced vapor recovery Page 141 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 130 systems preventing fugitive emissions during fuel delivery process. All gas stations have vents to allow pressure to equalize in the underground system. Costco exceeds all state requirements by using what is known as a green machine, VST green machine, which separates the gas vapors from the air at the vents, returning the gas vapors back to this -- the underground storage tanks, and then releasing clean air to the atmosphere, eliminating the largest potential of emissions that occur at other stations. Exceeding state standards, Costco uses dripless nozzles to prevent minor drips and spills during all customer fueling, and Costco uses long hoses to allow the nozzle to enter the vehicle's fuel port in an upright position, ensuring the auto shutoff operates as designed, preventing minor spills. Continuing with environmental. Monitored systems include in-tank sensors to monitor fuel quality, accurate inventory, inventory exceptions, fuel swellage and shrinkage, secondary containment sensors to monitor the double-walled tanks and piping, liquid sensors in all tank and dispersion sumps [sic] to identify any type of liquid present from potential leak points, and then pressure sensors to monitor the system's overall integrity. All sensors are programmed to automatically shut off the system when activated. It's known as a pressure line leak detector, and it constantly monitors the underground product pipes for catastrophic failure. Every 40 hours, the system runs a pressure test equivalent to a leak of 0.2 gallons per hour. The system immediately shuts down for failures, and this exceeds the state and federal monitoring requirements. Costco uses the Warren Rogers fuelWRAp service which connects to the inventory and sales systems monitoring in real time all inventory changes -- changing events. It monitors flow rates and sales at the dispensers and exact inventories in all tanks down to the Page 142 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 131 100th of a gallon or thousandths of an inch in height. Any anomalies or exceptions to the expectation will cause an alert or shutdown of the system. And finally, manual fire extinguishers are present at every island and in the equipment enclosure. Automatic fire extinguishers are present in all confined spaces. Costco seals the surface of concrete joints with a sealer designed specifically to prevent breakdown from oil and gas, preventing even the smallest of surface drips and spills from escaping into the underlying soil. Costco is one of the few operators to have a national standard for joint sealing. The site drainage technology is designed to capture any surface spills throughout the catch basin and oil/water separator before being conveyed to the stormwater detention and treatment system. And finally, fuel attendants' only responsibility is to actively monitor the station. They do not have other responsibilities in a convenience store or market. And here's some pictorial examples of some of those safety measures. Adjacency uses. This is adjacent and surrounding use. You see here highlighted in color all of the different areas. Starting on the far western site, you have the arterial roadway, which is Collier. The drainage canal. Subject property in the purple is the FP&L easement. The only thing that's allowed in that -- FP&L's easement on the subject property is something that's horizontal, like a parking spot. You couldn't put any buildings under there. Next to that in the reddish color is the commercial office medical. That is the adjacent or abutting land use nearest our commercial subject property. And then in typical Planning 101, with concentric rings of intensities and densities, then you have multifamily, then you have single-family, and to the south is the hospital and the RV mobile home community. So this is a Page 143 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 132 well-planned master plan PUD and in context with the overall activity center. More importantly, this is an aerial depiction of that same, and it shows the distances; 375 to 400 feet from canopy to canopy, and there's over 900 feet from the multifamily from the canopy itself. And again, as mentioned previously, 330 feet from lot line to lot line to the residential for multifamily, and 720 feet from lot line to lot line to the nearest single-family. The property, including the proposed gas facility, is not in the middle of the residential neighborhood, nor is it in the backyard of existing residences. 5.05.05.B.2.a.iv contemplates adjacency to residential uses. The LDC defines adjacent as to share a common property line or boundary. The property and -- the property and proposed uses do not share a common property line or boundary with any existing residential. The MPUD is adopted to allow for a mixture of various land uses in a master plan with adequate roadways and infrastructure. The MPUD should be considered with regard to the requests and the mixture of adopted and master plan uses. The DRI required a phased approach to have roadways like the segment of Rattlesnake Hammock along the property built before certain uses can commence. Those obligations for that roadway infrastructure have been met. Here's some pictorial examples. This is our 170-foot-wide FP&L easement on the eastern edge of the subject property. Here's the nearest residential on the -- on Rattlesnake Hammock Road just to the east. This is the five-story multifamily units. You can see this in context with the five-story multifamily, and just to the right there are the -- is the roofline to single-family units. But the nearest thing to that is the stormwater pond and the parking for the Physicians Regional Medical Center. Page 144 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 133 Here is the four-story Physicians Regional medical arts building. Again, all adjacent to us at the Costco subject property. Conclusion: The planned gas facility and the existing 7-Eleven are separated by Rattlesnake Hammock right-of-way, a four-lane divided arterial which is an accepted manmade boundary per the Land Development Code as cited earlier in this presentation. The gas facility is member-based and differentiated from many other conventional service stations and C stores in the area and is not open 24 hours, like many others. The MPUD commercial parcels and the adjacent parcels' end uses are well planned and adopted to provide adequate transition between various intensities and densities. The planned gas facility is at the furthest location to the west on the subject property and is more than adequately separated from any residential by parcel, buffers, easements, ponds, and existing buildings, as previously depicted. The code separation standard potentially locates the gas facility further to the east as an allowed out-parcel use with no market study required and no ASW request. The requested use p.m. peak hour vehicle trip generation, commercial acreage, commercial square footage, lighting standards are all below the approved thresholds in the PMUD and, more importantly, the landscaping has increased by 25 percent to provide additional green space and screening. Based on the provided -- we have our market study analyst here -- needs analysis market study and the Costco in-house market data and research, the planned gas facility is positioned to be a significant benefit to the local market by addressing the rising demand for gasoline based on population growth. The comprehensive analysis confirms a growing need within the market area which is defined as a 10-minute drive time from the subject property. Page 145 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 134 The key finding is that the projected demand increase of 29.09 percent is greater than the project's 25.95 share of projected supply. This leaves a 3.14 percent demand surplus which demonstrates a clear and justifiable need for the gas facility. The new Costco gas facility on the subject property will not oversaturate the market or negatively impact the surrounding area, businesses, and residents. Instead, it will play a crucial role in satisfying the growing fuel demand to serve a thriving and expanding community in South Naples. The ASW request and the PDI request are based on relief from certain Land Development Code and MPUD provisions related to orientation, layout, and certain improvements. The requests are not about the use, which is allowed by right. The Costco PDI request is commensurate with the previously requested modification by other entities over the past years for 19 waivers and deviations cumulatively in the same Hacienda Lakes MPUD for certain improvements and flexibility for parcels under development. Costco is adding six in the request. Collier County staff reports recommend approval for the ASW and the PDI request, and the Planning Commission recommended approval of the PDI and the ASW request. With that, here is our rendered site plan again showing the overall context with the green space, the buildings, the circulation, and the adjacent uses, and then more importantly, architectural rendering of it in its place with the gas pod, the store warehouse itself, and the parking. With that, I thank you for your consideration of approval for these requests, and I'm standing by to answer any questions that you may, and I have my team of experts here as well. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We don't have anybody lit up just yet. Page 146 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 135 MR. WESTER: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But anything else in your presentation, or does that conclude your presentation and you're now available just for questions? MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. That concludes my initial presentation. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can you put up the -- maybe it was the last drawing, or whatever drawing will help you explain deliveries. So I understand you went through the traffic and how it's -- you know, it's under the maximum and what your numbers are. But when the trucks come at -- to deliver not only the fuel but your stock, you know, for the warehouse, how does that -- that flow work? And also, what times of day do those things come down those roads? MR. WESTER: Okay. This is -- as you see on the screen up there, that is our -- there's an engineering modeling software called AutoTURN that provides the correct engineering circulation standards. And the fire marshal uses this as well for fire trucks. So our delivery vehicles, as you know, will enter this site at the first entrance point there, and they will go to the loading facility to load the property. Now, one interesting note is all the loading facilities for the Costco store are on the far western edge of the property, so that's the furthest from any adjacent uses, including any nearby residential. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's that little cutout, basically, in the top left of your -- MR. WESTER: Yes. Yes, it is. There we go. There it is right there. So that is our -- that is the loading dock. So that is away from all the residential. These are generators. This is a turnaround point that is approved Page 147 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 136 by the fire marshal for large trucks. But these trucks will enter the facility and come up and load the store and the warehouse. And there are multiple during the day as needed, and including in the early hours of the morning, to restock the warehouse as needed, just like all other Costco locations. As far as the fueling trucks, they will come in at the intersection here, come around, and there's a dedicated fueling point here that is built and planned for that type of fueling truck. It will deliver the fuel, and then it turns around and comes back out the exact same way to now a traffic light at that intersection. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And that's where that proposed light is going to go? MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That's been approved? MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Obviously, I already knew that answer, but we're getting that question a lot from citizens who aren't here and think we're not asking the right questions. I really wanted to get that on the record and have you explain how the flow works with the trucks and to see it visually and to make the point about the light being approved. And I also think it's helpful for all of us. You know, the way you just described it is a little different than what I had heard. Not different, but just a better visual. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. The other graphic I just put up there as well is actually the same engineering AutoTURN, and it actually shows the type of fire truck that is required to use, showing the maximum circulation. And what we've done is provide this to the County. This is a part of our Site Development Plan review, but it also enters this for emergencies and can traverse the entire facility, including down in this area to turn around. Page 148 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 137 So we are prescribed by a certain type of truck for weight and length, and it has to circulate the entire vehicular-use area and entry and exit points, and so it's done that as well. So that's on this diagram. But in a way, you could kind of dovetail that into the loading vehicles, because they also are bigger trucks, and they use these turnaround points in the VUAs on site. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean, have a lot more questions, but when you put up that graphic, I just thought it was a perfect time to just ask that one particular thing, but we'll wait -- we'll wait more towards the end when we get deeper into all the other presentations. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Bosi, are you available for a staff report? MR. BOSI: Good afternoon. Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. And I know the Board of County Commissioners is hearing this as one project. It is two petitions. And I would just point out there are voting requirement differences for each one. The PDI will require a supermajority from the Board of County Commissioners, and for the distance waiver, the ASW, that is a simple majority that's required. In some of this material -- or some of these items will be a repeat of some of the presentation that was provided by the applicant. But I just wanted to set the stage in terms of where this request sits in relationship to our code, how it relates to our land -- or to our Growth Management Plan, and how long that our Growth Management Plan has been in place and how it arranges for land uses within the county specifically related to commercial or intense type of land uses. The purpose of our Growth Management Plan, specifically our Future Land Use Element of our Growth Management Plan, is to -- is to guide the decision-making in Collier County on regulatory, Page 149 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 138 financial, and programmatic matters pertaining to land use. Most directly, this element controls the location, type, intensity, timing of new or revised use of land. Specifically what that's saying is there's a variety of land uses from intensity and densities that make up a community. And we have a Growth Management Plan and a Future Land Use Element with an associated Future Land Use Map that shows for how that arrangement of intensities and densities should be prescribed within to -- within the county. So any individual who is coming into this market who wants to know how is it that Collier County addresses and provides for land uses, they would consult the Future Land Use Element. And as you can see, when I pointed out the intersection of Rattlesnake Hammock and Collier Boulevard, with the adoption of the Growth Management Plan in January 10th of 1989, that area has been designated as an activity center. What's an activity center? The mixed-use activity center is a concept -- design to concentrate almost all new commercial zonings in locations where traffic impacts can be readily accommodated to avoid strip and disorganized patterns of commercial development and create focal points within the community. Think about some of the strips of U.S. 41, the East Trail, where you've got a long strip of frontage commercial. Well, that was the type of land-use patterns that we were trying to get away from in 1989, and to get away from that, we said all of -- the majority of our new commercial intensities will be located at activity centers, and Rattlesnake Hammock and Collier Boulevard was designated as such. The allowable uses within mixed-use activities [sic] include a full arrangement of commercial uses, residential uses up to 25 units an acre, institutional uses, hotel/motel, which is at a maximum of 26 units an acre, community facilities, industrial, which is -- which is Page 150 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 139 industrial or light industrial, and other land uses generally allowed in the urbanized area. Now, focusing now specifically on the Hacienda mixed-use PUD. And it was approved in 2011 under Ordinance 11-41. Approved October 25th of 2011. And as you read through the title of the Hacienda PUD, you most certainly do not come away with a -- with an understanding that this is specifically a residential PUD. There is residential prescribed at 1,714 units on just under 450 acres. There's residential/medical use, which is prescribed on close to 40 acres. There's business park, which is light industrial. There's commercial. There's an attraction, which is the Swamp Buggy. There's a public facility. There's a Junior Deputy, public rights-of-way, and then schools. So you have institutional, you have community, you have light industrial, and you have residential, you have medical, and you have commercial, and you have business park. You've got a wide variety of land uses that are prescribed within Hacienda Lakes. And this is the type of development, this is the type of PUD, mixed-use development, that we want to see, that we would like to see, that we are asking to see by our Growth Management Plan designation of an activity center. This type of diversity and this type of intensity and density is what our Growth Management Plan said is appropriate for this area. Now, why do I stress this so much? Because I -- and I'm proud of our Growth Management Plan. I'm proud of the way that it arranges the land uses. What I heard at -- prior testimony was that the location was -- was quote -- and this isn't my word -- "stupid" or "idiotic," but it's been that way for 36 years. Our Growth Management Plan said, these are the type of uses -- the commercial intensity that's allocated within Hacienda, this is the type of use that anyone who comes to this market, anyone who Page 151 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 140 comes to this area should expect to see. If you are in an activity center, you should see a wide range of uses, a high-density allocation, and a high commercial intensity because you are in an activity center, an activity center that has been designated for 36 years for these type of uses. On the top of the screen, you'll see the -- how we treat our land uses within a PUD is done by SIC code, Standard Industrial Codes. And for a Costco, the primary SIC code is 5331. Also, it could potentially be a grocery store, which is 5411. If you look down to the bottom of the screen, you'll see general merchandise store, it's 5331, which is -- which is a Costco. It's an allowed use. Oh, by the way, the food stores is also an allowed use, as well as a gas station service center. All of these uses are permitted by right. This government has said, "These uses are permitted by right within this commercial designated area." What we're putting up here is your evaluations for the substantial change. Your insubstantial change, it's an odd arrangement. It says, anything that is not a substantial change is an insubstantial change. And basically, if you're not adding a new use, if you're not adding commercial intensity, if you're not adding residential density, you're going to qualify as an insubstantial change. It's for minor adjustments to landscaping, adjustments to the height of light poles as such is being requested, to signage on your -- on your building for -- or your commercial buildings. None of those rise to that substantial change and thus is eligible for insubstantial change. And as the applicant had indicated, in 2011, when Hacienda was first approved, it contained 13 deviations. In 2022, six additional deviations were sought, for a total of 19, and this -- today's actions are seeking six additional deviations: Landscaping, lighting, architectural, and signage. The applicant provided a pretty good -- or a good description of those specific changes. Page 152 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 141 And this next section here, here's the criteria for the -- or for granting of the waiver of the separation requirements for the service station. Whether the nature and type of natural or manmade barrier, structure, or other feature between the proposed establishment and the existing facilities with fuel pump system is determined by the BZA to lessen the impacts of the proposed facilities with fuel pump. Whether the facility with fuel pumps is only engaged in servicing automobiles during regular business hours, whether the facilities with fuel pumps is located within a shopping center primarily accessed with a driveway, and whether the granting of the distance waiver will have an adverse impact on adjacent land uses, especially residential land uses. And the applicant did describe that "adjacent" is sharing a common property boundary. Staff has reviewed both the PDI and the ASW and is recommending approval of both of those petitions. The Planning Commission has heard both the PDI as well as the ASW and is recommending approval of both of those petitions to the Board of County Commissioners for your consideration. That's the overview of the history of the GMP of the activity center of the Hacienda PUD. The request that has been reviewed by the Planning Commission, reviewed by staff. Staff is here to answer any questions that you may have related to any of the application materials. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What was the vote on the Planning Commission? MR. BOSI: The -- I believe the vote was 5-1. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mr. Bosi, I'm just going to ask you a couple -- couple quick things, then I'm sure everybody's going to wind up coming back. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's trying to talk to you. Page 153 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 142 MR. BOSI: And, I'm sorry, for the ASW it was 4-1. The PDI was unanimous. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. When it comes to variances and deviations, you know, we've gotten a lot of emails from citizens that seem to think that if you grant a deviation or you consider a variance and the latitude that we have to do that, and you've outlined that here. We've got notes from some citizens that feel like we're breaking the law. You know, "Hey, it's in there for a reason. If you don't match it perfectly, then, you know, that should be cause to dismiss the construction project." I want you to do just a little bit of a deeper dive. What's the precedent in projects all across the county or even just in this area? And you outlined it a little bit, you know, sort of picking on Hacienda Lakes a little bit, but we all remember that, you know, that was something that not everybody in the community was, like, cheering about, but it turned out to be a great project. I'm sure these people love living there. But let's expand the aperture a little bit. When it comes to the 7-Eleven, the residential communities that are being built on 41, other things within a several-mile radius -- you know, you're very familiar. Like you said, it's sort of the commercial activity center. How normal is it that there's variances, deviations, you know, things of that nature? And then I have a follow-up to that. MR. BOSI: Sure. The process for a deviation is unique to PUDs, and PUDs is the land use of choice within Collier County. Within Collier County, within the urbanized area, close to 70 percent of your entitled land, zoned land, is within a PUD. So it's a very common zoning designation. The deviation was a process that was created specifically for the PUDs. So what we recognize from a regulatory standpoint is you can't -- every regulation has a purpose, but every regulation can't Page 154 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 143 account for -- for unique circumstances, changing in technology, changing in standards. And so the deviation was created so -- to be able to accomplish whatever the -- whatever the regulation was specifically designed to, whether it be to provide for greater buffering, whether it's to provide for greater architectural character within your building. But the deviation was created to say, "Okay. The regulation wants you to get to Y, and here's how you get to Y. But if you can get to Y with a more creative way, a more unique way and still accomplish what the intended purpose of that regulation was, we'll grant you that deviation." And I couldn't quote this as fact, but I would state that over 60 percent of the PUDs that come to this Board of County Commissioners has at least one or two deviations contained within them because they are -- they're proposing how to meet a regulation in an alternative way. So deviations are not unusual or uncommon within PUDs. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And if that alternative way to get to Y isn't something that makes sense, then we have the ability to say, "Yeah, I know they're trying to slice it three or four different ways," but it has to be something that meets the requirement, maybe like you said, in a different way, but it's not a law. Like you said, to get to it a different way is part of the process. MR. BOSI: Yeah. And I think specifically this application today for the additional parking spaces above 120 percent of the required parking, they -- they asked to exceed that limitation, but to exceed -- to justify exceeding that limitation was they added 25 percent additional landscape buffering around the perimeter of where that parking's going to be located to better screen the interior. The whole purpose of not allowing beyond 120 is because you didn't want to -- you don't want to display that sea of parking to the -- the Page 155 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 144 adjoining right-of-ways. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And would you say for other projects in the community that option is something that is utilized quite a bit, additional buffering, landscape to make up for the difference? So they're not doing anything that's a one-time thing, they're setting a precedent it's so unique, or is it -- it's the way that a lot of properties that we've had -- we've seen built around here, that's one of the options to address it? MR. BOSI: Oh, it's one of the options. They're not -- they're not doing anything unique. And it is -- every one's a one-off. Every one is evaluated based upon how they're proposing to get to Y. Instead of going the regulatory -- the prescribed regulatory, they're going to try it in a different manner in a different way. And if it makes sense, and if it has backing and general acceptability, then staff normally would recommend approval, and then -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: If you thought it didn't make sense or staff didn't, you would kill it at that point or you would recommend disapproval to us because they were trying to get to Y in a totally unacceptable way, correct? I mean, that's your job. MR. BOSI: That would be -- that's the normal outcome. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Lastly, just in this -- I want to ask you about insubstantial use changes, because that's peppered in here a lot. I want you to just do a deeper dive. Is that something exclusively unique to this project, or when it comes to the 7-Eleven, even when Hacienda Lakes was built, all the apartment buildings on -- up and down Collier Boulevard, not substantial-use changes, but insubstantial. Give me a little summary of what we commonly see, how common is that among projects, how big of a showstopper. MR. BOSI: Insubstantial change normally does -- an insubstantial change, per our code, can be approved by the HEX or Page 156 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 145 the Planning Commission. The Board of County Commissioners is the only body that is allowed to approve any petition request that includes intensity -- increase in intensity or density. So an insubstantial change is something that has been reserved for the HEX and the Planning Commission because it hasn't risen to the level that requires the Board of County Commissioners to approve an increase in intensity or density. So when you're below those bars, it's not an increase in intensity or density. It's really the characteristic of how the architectural is going to look or how the landscaping is going to perform. Or any -- the regulation, how the regulation is going to be met is really what is being evaluated as part of a PDI or an insubstantial change. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So those insubstantial changes, which we would normally never hear at this level, are coming to us because we voted unanimously that we wanted this project to go through the most robust vetting process even if that wasn't the normal process for this project, correct? MR. BOSI: If it rose above the insubstantial change process, it would be a Planned Unit Development amendment, and that would require the Board of County Commissioners to hear it and not be something that is allocated to the HEX or to the Planning Commission. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But it doesn't? MR. BOSI: No. In staff's determination, it does not. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. No one else is lit up. Let's go to the public comment. MR. MILLER: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. We have 60 registered public speakers today. I'm going to ask the speakers to please queue up at both podiums and be ready to go. Our first speaker is Barry G. Denkensohn, and he'll be followed by John Page 157 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 146 Lamey. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So my math indicates that 60 speakers, three minutes each, we're talking about three hours. So we're going to be very strict in limiting the speakers to the three minutes. When that red light goes off, please sit down. MR. CiPOLLA: Mr. Commissioner, if I may -- MR. DENKENSOHN: I didn't hear any limitation with regard to the proponent. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on a second. Hang on a second. MR. CiPOLLA: That was not the sequence of -- MR. MILLER: This gentleman was here at 8:00 a.m. -- 8:30 a.m. this morning, both the first two gentlemen. That's why they're first. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to call the speakers, and we'll do the best we can. If we don't meet your standard there, I'll apologize in advance. But he's going to call the speakers up. MR. MILLER: Okay. Mr. Denkensohn and Mr. Lamey. Mr. Denkensohn, please. MR. DENKENSOHN: Good morning. My name is Barry Denkensohn. I'm a resident of Verona Walk located on Collier Boulevard. I'm a former member of their board of directors. I'm an attorney. And I have 17 years' experience of public service. The overriding issue with regard to the application by Costco to construct a warehouse in the intersection at Collier Boulevard and Rattlesnake is safety. For transparency, I am not anti-Costco. My wife and I are members of Costco, and we enjoy shopping at their location on Naples Boulevard. Costco intends to place 12 gas pumps at the proposed location when there are only eight gas pumps at the Naples Boulevard Page 158 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 147 location. What is the need for so many gas pumps at this location? Directly across the street is another gas station which has eight gas pumps. So under this application there would be 20 gas pumps within 132 feet of each other. Costco's representative stated, and I quote, "There are no negative aspects associated with the gas waiver." Really? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Hang on. All right. We're not going to allow any applause or outbursts from the audience. If that happens, we're going to -- we'll be here all night long, so we're not going to permit it. So please respect the speakers, respect the five commissioners that are up here and our staff. Please, no noise from the audience. MR. DENKENSOHN: He took up 20 of my seconds. MR. MILLER: I held your clock when he started. MR. DENKENSOHN: Okay. Thank you. Collier County's Land Development Code mandates a 500-foot separation between the facilities and the fuel pumps. What was the purpose of that statute and that -- and that county ordinance? The purpose was for safety. Not to have a separation of less than 500 feet with this many gas pumps. The planned distance is 132 feet. Waiving that mandate or approving that -- that waiver would be an egregious decision. If there's a fire in that area or there's a mechanical malfunction with one or more of the gas pumps, there is an enormous risk of an explosion. We have a hospital less than a quarter of a mile away. Hacienda Lakes, a large residential community, is adjacent to the site. Such an occurrence would be far-reaching, injuring and causing fatality to residents at the Costco facility, Hacienda Lakes residents, and area other residents, and also maybe employees of the hospital. Members of the Board, you need to reject Costco's request to approve this waiver. As a lawyer, I can tell you, as I say to my Page 159 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 148 clients, any risk is a bad risk, and this is a very bad risk. Second -- second reason for safety issue has to do with traffic. And I understand that the traffic people in the county have said that the roads can handle this amount of traffic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Take just one more sentence there, and then we're going to move on to the next speaker. MR. DENKENSOHN: Excuse me? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Your time is up, but wrap up quickly, and we're going to go to the next speaker. MR. DENKENSOHN: I can't wrap up quickly. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Then sit down. We'll go to the next speaker. I'm sorry. We've got too many speakers. MR. DENKENSOHN: I tell you, it's very disrespectful for me to come up here, you interrupt me, and then I have less time to speak. And these people want to hear what I have to say. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He held your 20 seconds, sir. MR. MILLER: Your next -- I want to remind the speakers as well, you will get a tone at 30 seconds remaining in your time. Don't let that stop you. It's just one tone. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Mr. Miller, you added time to his -- MR. MILLER: Yeah. I held the clock as soon as you started, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John Lamey, and he will -- your next speaker is John Lamey. He'll be followed by Milton -- Milton, you're going to have to help me with pronunciation. MR. SPOKOJNY: Spokojny. MR. MILLER: Spokojny. MR. SPOKOJNY: If you sneeze, you got it right. MR. MILLER: Thanks, Milton. Go ahead, sir. Page 160 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 149 MR. LAMEY: Good afternoon, and thank you for your time. I wanted to mostly speak today because I think that the issues of the gas pumps and the traffic impacts are inseparable. It's my understanding that the County officials have stipulated to the traffic study done by Costco that said there were going to be 4,500 additional trips approximately per day, 5,000, whatever it is, approximately per hour [sic]. Easy search of the Internet yields that the overage Costco adds about between 10,000 and 16,000 trips per day, a pretty substantial difference, and it would take that high end over the limit that the gentleman described earlier. I also wanted to point out that I'm not sure if that traffic study included the full details of the PUD, because I see the numbers of 1,760 residential units in the PUD being touted, but you've already allowed a deviation from that within -- within the area. The 2,500 new doors along Rattlesnake Hammock, Hacienda Lakes Boulevard; multifamily, multistory, mostly residential. And I don't know that those were taken into account, and I think that a true traffic study can't really be understood until all those residences are probably 90 percent capacity. In terms of the points of egress, I was shown the -- we were all shown a map with three. I think that's an improvement from what we saw at the Swamp Buggy meeting, but I wanted to make sure that that egress in and out of the hospital is written in stone, because there were varying points on the maps that showed perhaps not the course of driving around the back of the hospital to the traffic light, or rather, to the unregulated point of egress onto Collier Boulevard, and that's the nearer point of the Costco parking lot. So the Costco in North Naples, five points of egress and ingress. So it's a -- it's a smaller number of points of entry no matter how you -- no matter how you look at it. Page 161 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 150 Interesting to say that the -- that there's a gap in the coverage of the demand. That just allows Costco to sell the gas at a higher price. I really think a real question here is why there's not a point of egress off Collier Boulevard. That seems to be because Costco's going to use those outparcels along Collier Boulevard to sell, rent, or whatever to other businesses, commercial businesses, and a point of entry there would take away their opportunity to gain the income from those -- from those properties. And -- you know, that's probably enough for me, but anyway. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Milton Spokojny, and he'll be followed by David Richardson. Milton's been ceded additional time. I'll need everyone to raise your hand when your name is called. Dan Brainard. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Constance -- I can't read this. Gaskins, maybe? Constance G-a-s-k-i-n-s? (No response.) MR. MILLER: All right. Terence Canfeld. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: He's here. Diane Haynes. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: She's here. And, Daniel Mullins. MR. MULLINS: I'm here, but I conceded [sic] my time to -- MR. MILLER: Yeah, that's what we're doing, yeah. Okay. So I've got -- one more time. Constance -- Constance, is this Haskins or Gaskins? Anybody Page 162 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 151 named Constance ceding time? (No response.) MR. MILLER: All right. Milt, you'll have 15 minutes. MR. SPOKOJNY: Thank you. I thought it was more than 15. MR. MILLER: Well, we have one not here. MR. SPOKOJNY: Okay. Good afternoon, distinguished body. My name is Milton Spokojny. I'm a licensed attorney in the state of Michigan. I'm a land-use specialist. I've been an attorney for more than 52 years. I'm a resident of Hacienda Lakes Estates. My address is 8373 Promoso Court, and I'm only here as a resident of that community. I don't represent anybody other than myself. I'd like to ask Mr. LoCastro a question to clarify. You asked something of Mr. Bosi. You indicated that traffic light has been approved. Is that what you indicated? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That's what the staff told us just recently. MR. SPOKOJNY: How did that get approved? Doesn't that -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This isn't a Q&A. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's -- this is an opportunity for public comment. If there's a question about a traffic light, we'll have Ms. Scott come up and explain that. MR. SPOKOJNY: Okay. Thank you. I'd like to ask also, Mr. LoCastro, you sent me an email the other day. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let me -- let me again say this is an opportunity to make comments. It's not a question-and-answer period for the commissioners. MR. SPOKOJNY: Okay. I'd like to move to disqualify Mr. LoCastro on the basis that he's a member of Costco. He's been seen shopping there. To me that's a strong appearance of impropriety. He should not be able to vote in this proceeding. And I Page 163 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 152 don't know what other panel members might be members of Costco, but I think that should be disclosed by everyone. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm a member of Costco. Have been for many, many years. That's not -- that's not grounds for disqualification. MR. KLATZKOW: No, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We vote on gas stations, and I get gas at Shell and 7-Eleven. And if they wanted to build a Shell and 7-Eleven, I'd be able to vote on it, same as Commissioner Saunders. MR. SPOKOJNY: Okay. All right. In any event, I think this hearing is a hearing -- it's a rush to judgment. There's 26 days from the last Planning Commission hearing, and you set this up. To me, that doesn't give substantial notice to people that wanted to attend here. We have an expert witness that could not be able to attend because he had other scheduled opportunities that he could not make it today because of this 26 days. To me, that 26 days, obviously, is in favor of the developer. It does not favor the residents. I've read numerous articles that you're here. You're allowing snowbirds to come in, and this hearing is set in October when snowbirds don't come back until November, December, or January. I would ask that this hearing be postponed to allow everybody the opportunity to appear that wants to appear and not do a rush to judgment in this particular matter. The other thing I want to point out is I think that this hearing should be remanded back to the Planning Commission for this reason: The Chairman of the Planning Commission was seen by myself and other individuals at the first July 17th Planning Commission hearing at the morning break at 10:30, at the lunch break at about 12:30 conversing with members of Costco. He was seen Page 164 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 153 talking to them, meeting with all the members, and he did not disclose that. At the second Planning Commission meeting, I asked him to disqualify himself because of that, and all he said was, "Well, I sent an email to Mr. Wester." And Mr. Wester acknowledged the fact that he sent him an email, but that's not what I was talking about. He specifically met with the Costco people at 10:30 and at 12:30. That's a strong appearance of impropriety, and he led the rest of the Planning Commission members in their voting. He asked leading questions all along the way in favor of Costco, and they stood there and followed his lead. So that was improper for him not to disclose those things and improper of him not to disqualify himself. This matter should be remanded to an impartial Planning Commission with a new chairperson and other members that followed his lead. It's improper for this board to hear this at this time. I have the full confidence of this board, but procedurally, that Planning Commission hearing was tainted based on an appearance of impropriety. He should not have been allowed to talk to those people. He should have disclosed it. I'm going to raise a couple other points, and some of these may be not significant, but they are significant to me. I think there's insufficient notice here. If you go over onto Rattlesnake Road [sic] and the hospital property and you look at the sign that's posted advertising this hearing, it's parallel to the sidewalk. Nobody can read that sign. Nobody can read that sign. You have to stop, park illegally in front of that sign on Rattlesnake Road in order to read it. It should have been turned perpendicular 90 degrees so traffic coming east and west on Rattlesnake can read it. I brought that up earlier. Nobody seems to care. That's another reason the developer did this, just to keep from finding out about this hearing. Page 165 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 154 As to the adjacent property, the apartment owners at Cadenza were not notified of this hearing. Mr. -- Frank and myself went over there on a Sunday afternoon, and we talked to 13 people at random. They didn't know anything about the fact that Costco was coming, that Costco would be using their road, Cadenza Road, their private road, which has a roundabout in it, for their second exit and that the -- there would be a traffic light at that road. So none of these apartment owners [sic] who have vested interest in knowing what's going to happen with Costco knew about what was taking place on their property. That road is on their property, and Costco's going to be using that as their main entrance to come in and out of their shopping center. I think that's improper. This body passed a Resolution No. 2025-150 which was approved on 8/26/25 for arterial and collector roadways in Collier County. The implementation of a classification system and standards is intended to protect the public safety and general welfare. The definition in that particular resolution indicates collector. Secondarily, quote, provides for local through traffic, end of quote. If you look at the table that's attached to that particular resolution, Table No. 10, Item No. 25, it says, "Collier County Transportation Management Services department Access Management Classification Table identifies Road No. CR 8664 -- I'm sorry, I misquoted -- 864, Rattlesnake Hammock Road, from Collier to Azure is 0.9 miles in length as a four-lane divided Class 3 collector roadway. By definition, this classification fails since this small section of Rattlesnake Road, which is entirely residential in character, does not provide for local through traffic. It is a dead-end road. It does not provide for local through traffic whatsoever. If any of you ever traveled on that particular section of Rattlesnake Road -- if you haven't, I invite you to do a site visit to that road and see what it's Page 166 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 155 like. You need to do a site visit. You are the gentlemen that calculated that classification, and you can undo it. It should not be classified in the manner in which you have classified it. It doesn't meet the criteria that you've established to classify that portion, that nine-tenths of a mile, as a Class 3 collector. Definition, use in Florida, transportation code, the term, Item No. 14, "local road" means a route providing -- I'll start again. "Local road" means a route providing service which is of relatively low average traffic volume, short average trip length or minimal through-traffic movements, and high land access for abutting property. This is in the Florida Statutes again, Section 334.04, under definitions. That's a Florida Statute that you are legally bound by. I further indicate by definition, a roadway providing for through traffic is a road that allows vehicles to pass through an area to reach a different destination as opposed to local traffic which is headed for a specific location on the same road and the same context of signs like "road closed to through traffic," which means drivers do not need to access the property when a work zone or the affected area should use a designated detour. This allows for the road to remain open to local traffic such as residents or customers with a destination in the immediate vicinity while preventing drivers from using it as a shortcut or a way to bypass a closure. Through traffic, vehicles traveling from one point to another that are passing through the area without stopping. Local traffic, vehicles traveling to a specific destination on the road such as a home or business within a defined area. So by definition in your resolution this is a local road. It's not a through street, and you need to honor that definition in your resolution that this body passed in late August of this year. This is not something old. You just passed it. I'll go on to a different topic. I'm going to go on to the Land Page 167 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 156 Development Code. Section 5.05.05, facilities with fuel pumps. The purposes of this section is to ensure that facilities with fuel pumps do not adversely impact adjacent land uses especially residential land uses. The high levels of traffic, glare, and intensity of residential use associated with facilities with fuel pumps, particularly those open 24 hours, may be incompatible with surrounding uses, especially residential uses; therefore, in the interest of protecting the health, safety, and general welfare of the public, the following regulations shall apply to the location, layout, drainage operation, landscaping, parking, and permitted sales and service activities of facilities with land fuel -- fuel pumps -- facilities with fuel pumps. And then separation from adjacent land uses requires a 500-foot waiver from the nearest point. Waiver of separation requirements. The BZA, that's this body, serving as the BZA today, may, by resolution, grant a waiver of part or all of a minimum separation requirement set forth herein if it is demonstrated by the applicant and determined by the BZA that the site proposed for development of a facility with fuel pumps is separated from one or another facility with fuel pumps by natural or manmade boundaries, structures, or other features which offset or limit the necessity for such minimum distance requirements. The BZA's decision to waive part or all of the distance requirements shall be based upon the following factors. And I skip to Section 4, whether the granting of the distance waiver will have an adverse impact on adjacent land uses, especially residential land uses. It's on the onus of the developer to prove that, and they have not proved that. They gave superficial reasons that that's been proved, but they have not done any specific studies to specifically show that that's been proved. You know, this body adopted that ordinance. There's a 500-foot requirement. There are so many loopholes in that ordinance that you Page 168 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 157 have rendered that ordinance meaningless. You can grant a waiver of that ordinance for any reason. If somebody says, "Oh, there's a blade of grass in the median," that could be grounds for a waiver. You have the opportunity to make this right. You should not grant that 130-foot -- 30-foot -- 132-foot waiver at all. I'm going to talk a bit about the market study, because there's other people that are going to talk about the market study. The Administrative Code shall establish submittal requirements for a facility with fuel pumps waiver request. The request for a facility with fuel pump waiver shall be based upon submittal of the required application, a site plan, and a written market study analysis which justifies a need for the additional facility with fuel pumps in the desired location. Item No. 7 says, "A written market study analysis which justifies the need for the additional facility with fuel pumps in the desired location." The petition before the Planning Commission should have been dismissed perfunctorily. That market study was never provided. I made the exact same presentation that I'm making to you now about the market study, and it's only because I made that presentation that the applicant requested an adjournment to provide a market study at a later hearing. That petition should have been dismissed perfunctorily. Mr. LoCastro, in your newsletters, you talk about we're going to follow the law. Well, they didn't follow the law. They should have dismissed it perfunctorily, and they didn't. I've got 29 seconds left? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Twenty-seven. MR. SPOKOJNY: I'll pass. I take it you got the emails that I sent everybody? I sent three different emails to this body. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I would assume so. MR. SPOKOJNY: I would ask that you read them. I'm here for the people that can't be here. I'd ask you to look at the email for the Page 169 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 158 hospital administrator and the traffic expert that we hired in particular. He can't be here today. Please look at those. Can I make one more statement real quickly? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Wrap it up very quickly, if you would. MR. SPOKOJNY: The traffic study done by Costco does not analyze the portion of Rattlesnake Road east of Collier whatsoever. That's why we're here. They don't analyze that portion. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi, would you come on up while the next speaker is -- MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I had one slip that was inadvertently put into a group with Mr. Richardson. This woman has been here a long time. With your permission, we'll call her next. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure, sure. MR. MILLER: After Mr. Bosi? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, go ahead. I have a couple questions for Mr. Bosi. MR. MILLER: Josephine Nyland Yu, and then we'll have David Richardson. Ms. Yu. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi, if you'll just stay near the microphone, we'll get to you. MS. YU: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Josephine Nyland Yu, and I'm here to express my concerns in opposition to the Costco development proposal. I live in District 1, approximately 1.3 miles west of the Collier Boulevard/Rattlesnake Hammock intersection. I became a Florida resident when I was 16. And I am a member of Costco. I believe -- I don't believe a proper traffic impact study could have been completed when the potential for additional development like the petition for rezoning South Naples Citrus Grove which would Page 170 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 159 add an additional 423 homes is still pending. I also believe that this rezoning or development request will not be the last in this area, meaning additional vehicles on the road. Consideration of additional developments both planned and pending on Tamiami Trail and Collier Boulevard south to Marco Island should be considered as their route would most likely be Collier Boulevard to and from I-75 interchange which is way north. This Costco will -- the traffic this Costco will attract daily could cause critical delays for those seeking emergency medical care or ambulances trying to get to Physicians Regional Hospital. I believe the approval of the ASW by the Planning Commission may have been based on inaccurate information. The applicant stated the gas station hours would be quote, "Commensurate with the wholesale store's hours of operation," unquote. This statement was used when the staff analysis and recommendations stated quote, "The applicant committed that the hours of the gas station will coincide with the store hours," end quote. As many Costco gas stations nationwide open at 6 a.m., while the stores open at 10 a.m., I ask for proof of other Costco locations where the gas stations are not open outside of the store's operating hours. I also ask if the hours of operation are part of the Commission's approval, and how will you regulate them if they are? I am also concerned about the wildlife in the area and the -- and the proximity to the Picayune Strand, of utmost importance, although there are many, and Florida's -- Florida's state animal, the critically endangered Florida panther, which roams this area. Just over two months ago, only about two miles from the proposed Costco location, two three-and-a-half-month-old female panther cubs were killed on Davis Boulevard. Knowing this is a high panther traffic area, what is being done to help protect these animals Page 171 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 160 and their habitat? I ask that you please deny the proposed Costco development. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bosi, Milt -- and I'm not going to try to say Milt's last name -- raised a couple issues I just want to get on the record. In reference to the sign itself, I don't know how it was placed there. But is that in and of itself a violation of the ordinance if the sign is not facing a certain way? MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. Chair, the -- the claims of procedural due process have been raised at the Planning Commission. We checked the notifications. We checked the signage that was provided for, and everything seemed to be in accordance with what was required for the size of this property and for where the sign locations were. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And in terms of the written notices and everything, for the record, that was done properly as far as you can -- MR. BOSI: Correct. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Klatzkow, there were issues of conflict of interest. Obviously, being a member of Costco is not a conflict of interest. But on the record, Commissioner LoCastro and I are both members of Costco. I'm assuming that that's not sufficient to have an appearance of impropriety or being a conflict of interest. MR. KLATZKOW: Absolutely not. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I just wanted to get those on the record. MR. MILLER: All right. Your next public speaker is David Richardson. He'll be followed by Frank CiPolla. Mr. Richardson has been ceded additional time from Laura Dunkin. Page 172 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 161 MS. DURKIN: Durkin. MR. MILLER: Thank you, ma'am. Linda Cohen. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: And Raymond Durkin. MR. DURKIN: Yes. MR. MILLER: So he will have a total of 12 minutes. MR. RICHARDSON: I did have some written materials I wanted to present. I sent them to the county about 10 days ago. I'm not sure -- MR. MILLER: Give me one second, sir. I wasn't sure who that was associated with. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't you go ahead and start your comments. MR. RICHARDSON: Okay. My name is David Richardson. I live in Azure at Hacienda Lakes. Regarding the market study and whether a gas station is needed at this intersection, I did a quick back-of-the-envelope -- MR. MILLER: Is this your presentation here, sir? MR. RICHARDSON: No, it is not. But I did back-of-the-envelope calculations based on their market study that says that there will be approximately 23,000 households in the market area in the year 2030, and they say that the usual household has 1.64 cars per household, which means approximately 38,000 total cars in the market area. The existing RaceTrac and 7-Eleven stations at Collier and Rattlesnake have 16 fueling stations each. According to Costco's traffic information study, a station with 24 fueling stations, which is what they want to put in, can accommodate a minimum of 400 cars per hour. So that means the RaceTrac and 7-Eleven combined can accommodate 533 cars per hour. Page 173 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 162 Assuming they're open 16 hours per day, which is what I think Costco will be open -- the RaceTrac is actually open 17 hours, and 7-Eleven is open 24 hours. But assuming it's 16 hours a day, that means they can accommodate 8,528 cars per day, or just under 60,000 cars per week. In other words, there's 37,746 total cars in the market area, and these two stations alone can accommodate almost 60,000 cars in the market area, filling up once per week. So these two stations alone can easily service all the cars in the market area. Even if we take their number of cars estimated with the project, with the Costco project, they say there will be approximately 63,000 cars. Again, these two stations alone can accommodate 59,000 cars per week. So that's -- over 94 percent of the total demand in this area can be supplied by these two stations alone, let alone the 19 other stations in the market area that they identified. Another way to look at that is to say that with the 20 -- 23,000 households in 2030 times the number of cars per household times 12.36 gallons per week, which is what they estimate each car uses per week, that's about 467,000 gallons per week in demand in 2030. But right now the market area supplies 588,000 gallons. So there's much more supply now than even the demand will be in five years. So I think -- in general, the idea that there's another gas station needed at this intersection is ludicrous in my opinion. A couple of other notes on the market study. They say that they project population increase about 12 percent over the next five years, but they don't give a basis for that. The Florida legislature Office of Economic and Demographic Research -- MR. MILLER: Sir, I've paused your time. Is this your notes? MR. RICHARDSON: Yes, these are my notes. MR. MILLER: Okay. Thank you. MR. RICHARDSON: And I don't know how to go forward. MR. MILLER: Do you want to scroll down? Page 174 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 163 MR. RICHARDSON: Oh, you just scroll down, okay. That's the traffic information study with 400 cars per hour. That's Costco's information study. This is the 63,000 cars with the project that they estimate in 2030. This is the 12 percent population increase. As I mentioned, the Florida legislature estimates that from 2020 to 2024, during the height of COVID years, population in Collier County as a whole increased 8.7 percent. So this is projecting at least a 50 percent more population increase than during the go go COVID years when everybody was moving here. And you'll see that same Florida legislature office projects a total increase of only 7.19 percent over the next five years. Even with the 12 percent increase in population, they project somehow a 15 percent increase in the number of households, which cannot happen unless the household size goes down, which I guess is possible, but they don't explain why that would be the case. And finally, they use this multiplier of the annual household spend on gasoline that they project to increase about $400 a year over the next five years. They don't explain that in their market study. Presumably it's because of inflation, but gas prices don't move with inflation. Different grades of gasoline have different prices. And if inflation increases, demand will go down. But they use this multiplier to try to tell us there's a 29 percent increase in demand for gasoline over the next five years, which is simply not the case. A couple of other issues with their waiver application. They say that -- this was mentioned just earlier -- that the gas hours are commensurate with the stores hours, but they're going to open the gas at 6, and the store doesn't open until 10. Regarding the adjacent residential properties, they never mentioned the Hammock Park apartments, which is a four-story Page 175 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 164 apartment complex directly across the street. And based on the definition of adjacent land uses, that qualifies as an adjacent land use because it shares a public right-of-way, and that's less than 300 feet from the gas station. I think the biggest issue with their waiver application is they tell us that they're not going to sell convenience items, but there's a 160,000-square-foot convenience store attached to this gas station. So I don't see how they can say with a straight face that they're not going to sell convenience items. I think they sell $1.50 hot dogs and soda pop and other things like that. For some reason, they want you to treat the gas station as a stand-alone entity, but it's not a stand-alone entity. When Mr. Wester was asked at the first Planning Commission meeting whether they would move forward with the -- whether they'd move forward with the store if the gas station wasn't approved, he said this: "This is a unified development plan, and it has always been that way. So the gas goes with the store. So you should consider the store when you consider the gas station." Mr. Wester wants you to do that. And this is what Mr. Bosi said at that Planning Commission meeting, if you look at the last sentence I underlined -- or second -- second-to-last sentence. It says, "It is not a stand-alone gas station. It is a gas station that's associated with a membership department store." You know, something similar could be said about the 7-Eleven. It's not a stand-alone gas station. It's a gas station associated with a convenience store. The difference is a gas station with convenience store is permitted by the Land Development Code. A gas station with a general merchandise store is not permitted. As Mr. Spokojny mentioned, this provision of 5.05.05 of the Land Development Code places restrictions on quote, "Facilities with fuel pumps." Facility with fuel pumps is defined as any Page 176 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 165 establishment that sells, distributes, or pumps fuels for motor vehicles, whether or not such facility provides automotive repair services or includes a convenience store. In other words, Costco is a facility with fuel pumps. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here today. They wouldn't need a waiver of the 500-foot separation requirements. They'd be exempt from that. What are the restrictions on facilities with fuel pumps? They can only sell, in addition to automotive items, cold drinks, candies, tobacco, similar convenience goods, roadmaps, et cetera. Obviously, Costco sells a lot more than that. This provision of the Land Development Code prohibits them from doing that. When I brought this up at the Planning Commission meeting, Mr. Bosi said this provision doesn't apply because the gas station is an accessory use, that the principal use is the merchandise store. There's no exceptions for accessory uses from this provision of the Land Development Code. They should be required -- it's not a conventional gas station, I admit that, but it is a gas station, according to the Land Development Code, and they should be required to follow all of the regulations applicable to gas stations. Just really quickly, it's not an accessory use. As Mr. Wester stated, it's a unified development plan. There's nothing incidental about the gas station. The gas goes with the store. Gas station drives traffic to the store and vice versa. Mr. Wester mentioned this trip cap applicable to the south area of Hacienda Lakes being the south area of -- south of Rattlesnake Hammock Road, plus the future school. And he mentioned very briefly, "This portion of the development shall not exceed 1,409 p.m. peak-hour trips." And keep in mind it says gross trips, not net trips, not new trips. This is the total number of trips for the south area. And the south area includes Esplanade. You'll see the reference to Residential Pod A in the previous sentence. That's now Esplanade, as Page 177 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 166 you can sort of see from that map. It's a little hard to read. It also includes Ekos, which is entirely south of Rattlesnake Hammock Road. So to determine how much those residential developments contributed to traffic, I looked at the Institute for Traffic Engineers Trip Generation Manual. This is the same manual that they use in their traffic information study. I believe it's standard for this -- for this industry, traffic engineering. You'll see for residential planned unit development, like Esplanade, they have p.m. peak-hour trips based on the number of residential units. Down here, 443 homes in Esplanade equals 318 p.m. peak-hour trips. Ekos has 320 units, senior attached housing, that's 96 trips. A total of 414 total p.m. peak-hour trips in this portion of the development. So Costco can contribute no more than 994 additional trips. This is their traffic information study. This is how many trips the warehouse generates. This is how many trips -- p.m. peak-hour trips the future outparcels contribute, 1,088, plus the 414 equals 1,500 total trips, exceeding the max of 1,409. Now, they might say this includes the outparcels, which are not built yet and may never be built, but this doesn't include the gas station, which, if you look at the ITE manual, would have 345 additional trips for a gas station with 24 fueling stations. So again, they're over the -- they're over the threshold. And the ITE manual significantly understates the actual traffic that Costco will generate. That was mentioned by a speaker earlier. That's not us saying that. That's Costco's own traffic engineers saying that. This is a memo they wrote in March of 2023 for a store in California. They say they maintain a database of trip data for Costco for over 20 years. They say that the actual traffic of a Costco is more than twice what the ITE manual says. And again, the ITE Page 178 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 167 manual is the source for their numbers in their traffic information study. This is another memo they wrote in March of 2024 for a store in Littleton, Colorado. Again, they describe how they've been studying Costco gas -- or Costco and Costco gas facilities for over 20 years. They've invested significant effort into this site-specific-trip-generation database. So they have a database going back over 20 years showing the actual traffic that Costco will generate. So how much does it actually generate? Per thousand square feet of retail space, 7.09 trips. 162,000 square feet, Costco, this Costco in South Naples, equals 1,153 p.m. peak-hour trips. Add that to the residential trips, 1,567 total trips, exceeding the max of 1,409. We're not asking you to go out of your way to deny Costco the ability to build here. We're just asking you to follow the law as it is written. I think you'll see that based on the plain language of the LDC and the PUD ordinance, not only is a Costco not permitted as of right; it's actually prohibited by those items. Thank you very much. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, our next speaker will have 18 minutes. Would you like to do our court reporter break before then? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Are you ready for a break or -- THE COURT REPORTER: (Nods head.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll take a break until, I would say, five minutes -- we're going to take a break until five minutes to 3. (A recess was had from 2:38 p.m. to 2:55 p.m.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to start with the speakers, if you'll please sit down. MR. MILLER: Ladies and gentlemen. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Miller, go ahead and Page 179 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 168 try -- call the next speaker. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we had a speaker cede three additional minutes to Milt. Rosanna Basir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We're going to bend the rule just a little bit. Milt's an attorney, and I thought -- he's going to get three more minutes because somebody else is ceding to him. That's an exception to our rule. Milt, you have three minutes. MR. SPOKOJNY: Oh, now? I'm sorry. I thought it was going to be at the end. Give me a second there. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we go ahead and call another speaker first. MR. MILLER: All right. We'll do Frank CiPolla next. Frank has been ceded additional time from Paul Totorovich. MR. TOTOROVICH: Here. MR. MILLER: Tony Barbella? MR. BARBELLA: Here. MR. MILLER: Camille Barbella? MS. BARBELLA: Here. MR. MILLER: Jack -- is this Jack Cummings? MR. CUMMINGS: Here. MR. MILLER: Okay. Mehdi Habibi? MR. HABIBI: Here. MR. MILLER: Hope I was close. Marilyn Foos? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Marilyn Foos? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: I see her. Larry Seely? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Ken Barry? Page 180 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 169 (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Susan Seely? MS. SEELY: Here. MR. MILLER: And Lisa Locklin? MS. LOCKLIN: Here. MR. MILLER: I'm going to have to recount this real quick. One, two -- MS. PATTERSON: Troy, before you get started, too, I just want to remind the audience, Terri, our wonderful court reporter here, is taking verbatim minutes, so if we could just have everybody keep the conversation down in the audience. It makes it hard for her to be able to take accurate minutes when she can hear background noise. And I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And Frank has a total of 30 minutes. MR. CiPOLLA: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. My name is Frank CiPolla. I am a private businessman. I am a resident of Naples for eight years full-time, and I live at Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. So here we are at this moment. You gentlemen, all of you, have the power to stop this if you want. I was thinking the other day, why? Why does this have to go in that spot? There are a lot of people here who are Costco members. They enjoy going to Costco. But why do we have to try to jam this round peg into a square hole? It doesn't make sense. East Naples is currently rather undeveloped. There are large stretches of land in places where Costco could go, but it insists -- it insists on putting this up against a residential community and next to a hospital, and I'll touch on that in just a moment. Costco is not a destination stop. You go to Costco to save a penny on gasoline and you buy in bulk. It is not a destination -- I Page 181 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 170 should say it is a destination. You go there for a specific reason. You don't stumble upon a Costco. So if it's a mile east, west, north, or south, it really doesn't matter. They can get the Marco market. They can get the other market. They need one in South Naples. It does not have to be here. We have mentioned this before. Mr. Wester has poopoo'd it and his overlords at Costco, this 84 acres of land with plenty of roadway at the corner of Davis and Santa Barbara. It's for sale. We've seen the sign. I'm not a real estate agent. He'll mention that, I'm sure. Now, Mr. Wester and his team, from the very first information meeting that we had in February to now, when we asked the question, why do we have to put it in that spot, his reply is and has always been, "Well, it's zoned commercial." Let me tell you something, that is not an answer. That is a dodge. It's designed to quiet us, it's disrespectful, and for a company that prides itself on working with the community, it's insulting. And we would thought -- we would have thought by this point, through the Planning Commission and the County Commissioners, that you would have noticed that by now. So let me -- indulge me for just a moment as I clear a couple of things up. The folks at Costco are not being truthful. They're not. Mr. Wester misquoted me at the Planning Commission meeting last month and then misled the Planning Commission. So let me state again for the record, you are voting or will be voting, if you do vote today, on the only Costco in the United States of America that would be up against a residential community and a functioning hospital. This is the only one. Now, Mr. Wester put on a children's magic trick and showed a whole bunch of Costcos up against residential areas, but we took note that -- just up against residential areas, and sometimes they are. But this would be the only one in the United States that would be up Page 182 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 171 against a residential area and a functioning hospital. Think about that for a moment. This Costco would also increase the number of gas pumps -- not stations -- gas pumps to about 70 and make that corner, according to Gas Buddy, the only corner in all of Naples with three gas stations. This is what you would be voting for. Now, let's go back in time a little bit. And I'd mentioned this to the Planning Commission. Let's say I came to you five years ago and said, "Gentlemen, I have an idea for that little piece of land at the corner of Rattlesnake and Collier." And you would say, "Okay. Tell me a little bit about it." Instead of putting a shopping center that everyone could enjoy, not just Costco members, we're going to put a giant warehouse there. We think it's a great -- a giant warehouse there. Your immediate question after that would be, "Well, I guess you would have an entrance and exit off Collier Boulevard." And I would say, "No, no. We're going to use a small two-lane highway that goes into a community and is essentially a dead-end, and we're going to have trucks, trailers, cars, 4,500 per day, possibly a lot more, make an awkward turn into this off a two-lane roadway." You would say, "Well, that doesn't sound so good." Then I would pull you aside and say, "Look, I have another entrance. I made a deal with the hospital next door which is hurting for money" -- and I'll touch on that in just a moment -- "that we are going to use one of their two entrances to run cars, trucks, trailers around a functioning hospital at all hours of the day and night to get in there." You would probably look at me at that moment and say, "This is ludicrous." Think about that for a second. Now, Mr. LoCastro, to his credit, said, "Look, we don't want a hearing examiner to take a look at this. We would rather have the Page 183 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 172 Planning Commission look at this," and we applauded that. And he promised in one of your newsletters, Mr. LoCastro, a deep dive. He also said a moment ago that it would be a robust review. So let's talk about what the Planning Commission did. It was so deep, this dive, that there was no market study, and nobody noticed it until we mentioned it, which should have stopped it right then and there. Neighbors near by were not notified by mail. Milt and I had to go and notify them because they were not notified by mail, which I believe is required by law. Private conversations were had, as Milt mentioned a moment ago, between the Planning Commission chair and Costco. And when we pointed it out to the commissioner and asked him to recuse himself, he said no. And then when he was caught, he told us, "Oh, we chatted about A, B & C." There were private emails that went back and forth from the Chairman of the Planning Commission and Mr. Wester. We pointed that out as well. We'd like to see what those emails say. And the Planning Commission voted to disobey a county ordinance about placing a gas station within 500 feet property line to property line which is on the books to protect nearby residents from traffic and safety issues. They disobeyed that, and we had a discussion about this a little while ago. In short, the Planning Commission has, concededly, bent over backwards to make this happen. Now, let me give you an example -- not too many people saw this, but I took notice. During the Planning Commission after lunch, one of the meetings, they talked about putting, of all things, a bus stop. In addition to everything else, on that two-lane roadway, let's put a bus stop right next to Costco. The Planning Commission, rightfully, said to Mr. Wester and his Page 184 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 173 team, "Would you mind putting the bus stop partially on your property or on your property?" And he said, "No." And they said, "Okay. That's fine with us." So it leads me to believe that who are they working for and who are you working for? You're working for the constituents who voted you in, not for a multimillion-dollar company to have what it wants. Now, neighbors have come to me -- I'm not insinuating anything nefarious, I want to go on the record, but I can't say that about my neighbors. They have seen the Planning Commission meetings. Lots of them are here today. They have seen the leading questions from Mr. LoCastro, and they think that it's a done deal, but you have the power right now to tell Mr. Wester and his team to go back to the drawing board, find another site, and then we can sit down with Mr. LoCastro, maybe the owner of the property, and plan something that will benefit all of us and not just Costco members. What I'm asking you to do is use your common sense. In your quiet moments, you must know that this is idiotic. And that was my quote, by the way. It is idiotic. It's a tragedy waiting to happen. A warehouse and gas pumps up against a functioning hospital, cars, tractor-trailer trucks, tankers making awkward turns from a two-lane roadway onto a driveway which leads to a 62-and-over community. If you vote in favor of this, and I hope you will not, three things will happen. First, the residents, not having received a fair hearing from the Planning Commission and hopefully getting a fair hearing here, but if not we will take this to a judge and have him or her decide. We are ready, willing, and able to seek injunctive relief. This doesn't -- this doesn't end it. We're taking this to court, and I mentioned that to them in the last meeting. Second, you, and specifically Mr. LoCastro, will have to answer for this. I have a petition done, with the help of Jotform online, of Page 185 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 174 400 signatures, residents in and around the community. And I would say to Mr. LoCastro, should you run for reelection or God forbid Congress, that people will remember your actions today and how you voted. And third, and I've said this before -- and this is important -- this will lead to an increase in accidents, injuries, and death at that corner. And when the first elderly resident with a walker trying to cross Collier Boulevard is hit and struck by a car or tanker tips over because there's not enough room to make a turn off a two-lane highway or a multicar accident results in injuries and kills several people, I am going to email all of you if you vote for this, because you will be complicit in what goes on at that corner. You go back to your homes wherever you might live, but everything that happens at that corner is going to be on your heads. Now, while I'm on the subject -- and this is important -- let me tell you about a meeting that Milt and I had -- he's my witness -- this past summer with the COO of Physicians Regional hospital on Collier Boulevard. I will note that is the exact same position Mr. LoCastro held for four years, which is yet another reason for him to recuse himself. Milt is here as my witness. You could talk to him if you'd like. Milt and I sat down with Physicians Regional COO Kareem Dunham, and I said to him the same thing I said to you a moment ago, "This will lead to more accidents, injuries, and death." And you know what he said? "Well, we don't want death." Milt is my witness. The implication being that injuries are something they want. In fact, let me tell you something. He then went on to tell me that the hospital is struggling to make money, and with the Costco next door, through visibility and these accidents, they estimate six or seven emergency room visits a day equaling hundreds of thousands Page 186 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 175 of dollars for the hospital. MR. SPOKOJNY: I swear to God that was stated. MR. CiPOLLA: Thank you. That's why they're so eager to rent out a road around a functioning hospital for cars, tractors, and trailers to use, because they'd like to get a check every month, and accidents, injuries, and death. The job of a politician is to work for all of your constituents. And I'm looking at you, Mr. LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: All five of us are going to vote on this. MR. CiPOLLA: I understand that. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I hope you did your homework on that. MR. CiPOLLA: I'm looking at you, though, because you represent this particular district. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. MR. CiPOLLA: There is a large conference room in this building, and not once in this entire process has Mr. LoCastro said, "Let's all meet in the room. Maybe there's some compromise here." He has instead detailed again and again in his rather repetitive and lengthy emails and newsletters, with a lot of underlining, what the process is as if you are a colonel telling your inferior officers what we should do and how we should do it. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Unsubscribe. MR. CiPOLLA: I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Unsubscribe. MR. CiPOLLA: Are you going to let me speak, or are you going to speak? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No, go ahead. MR. CiPOLLA: Mr. LoCastro also said he is hearing from dozens, hundreds of people who are for this project. We've had three Page 187 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 176 hearings so far, 21 speakers with Milt and several today, probably 25. Not one person has come to any of these meetings to talk about how they want this. Not one. So where are these people? Where are they? And worse yet, a hospital next door is chasing dollars which is willing to let cars, truck, tankers use its -- only one of its two entrances. It only has two entrances. One of them they have permission from Costco to use. Your job, all of you gentlemen, if you work for us, is to tell Mr. Wester and his overlords at Costco that they need to go back to the drawing board, and at that point we can sit down with Mr. LoCastro, maybe even the owner of the property, Mr. Torres, and plan this out for the benefit of the entire community, not just the percentage of people who are Costco members hoping to save pennies on a gallon of gasoline. Costco is not going away. They need a second location in East or South Naples. It's not a do-or-die proposition. It will find another more suitable site, and there are plenty. And when all of you go home, you can rest easy knowing you did not create a safety and traffic hazard that will injure and kill people for many years to come. Thank you. MR. MILLER: We're going to have Milt do his three minutes right here, and then Milt will be followed by Jack Yazinski. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Milt, do you have that one other person? MS. BASIR: Yep. MR. SPOKOJNY: Thank you for ceding me this time, Commissioners? COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Chairman, could I make a comment? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. Page 188 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 177 COMMISSIONER HALL: I welcome all the comments from the public, but if you can't keep your comments not being personal, you're going to tune me out just like that, and I want you to know that up front. We have no intention of entertaining anything personal against any of us. We're here to do a job, and we want to listen, and we want to do it as well as we can, but the personal attacks, I find, are very shallow. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I agree with that. Milt. MR. SPOKOJNY: Thank you. Milton Spokojny again, 8373 Promoso Court. I want to talk about their request for insubstantial change. I don't believe their request for an insubstantial change is valid. Your Land Development Code indicates Section 10.02.13. There are three types of changes to a PUD ordinance: Substantial, insubstantial, and minor. Number 1, substantial change, any substantial changes to an approved PUD ordinance shall require the review and recommendation of the Planning Commission and approval of the Board of County Commissioners as a PUD amendment prior to implementation. Applicants shall be required to submit and process a new application complete with pertinent supporting data as set forth in the Administrative Code for the purpose of this section, and substantial change shall be deemed to exist where -- and I'm going to go through some items -- B, a proposed increase in the total number of dwelling units, intensity of land use, height, or buildings within the development. E, a substantial increase in the impact of the development which may include but are not limited to increases in traffic generation, changes in traffic circulation, or impacts on other public facilities. Bingo. That's a substantial change. Page 189 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 178 F, a change that will result in land-use activities that generate a higher level of vehicular traffic based upon the Trip Generation Manual published by the Institute of Transportation Engineering. Costco traffic engineer used that particular manual. Another reason. H, a change that will bring about a relationship to an abutting land use that would be incompatible with an adjacent land use. There can be no question that this land use is incompatible with the residential and a hospital use. No question. Nobody on earth is going to challenge that position. Therefore, you should deem this to be a substantial change. Look at your own ordinances. It's clear, legal language. There's no question about it. Another reason is, have you heard of the Polk Collier trail system? I talked to the engineer in that system. His name is David Turley. Costco wants to use the right-of-way, the power and light right-of-way for additional parking. That is going to be used by the trail system, so there's a conflict there. You should check that out, okay. I would also indicate that you should follow Mr. Schumacher's dissenting opinion. There's not enough roadway there to accommodate the traffic. You're asking for a conflageration (phonetic) allowing tanker trucks to turn there. You're asking for bus stops. There's a future school that's going to be in that area. You guys are asking for a catastrophe to take place. Please heed that. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jack Yazinski. Jack will be followed by Roy Martin. Jack has been ceded additional time from Nancy Yazinski. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Linda Hughes. (Raises hand.) Page 190 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 179 MR. MILLER: Paul -- is this Sciocino? MR. SCIOCINO: Yeah. MR. MILLER: Close. Michael Haller? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Michael Hammond? (Raises hand.) MR. HAMMELL: Hammell. MR. MILLER: Okay. James Gould? MR. GOULD: Yes. MR. MILLER: Steven Shores? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: And Thomas Convery? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: That will be a total of 27 minutes, sir. MR. YAZINSKI: Thank you. And my name is Jack Yazinski. It's spelled Y-a-z-i-n-s-k-i, just like it's pronounced. My wife and I -- Nancy and I live full-time in the Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes, and we have done so for about three years now after owning a house in Lely for a number of years. By way of introduction, before I moved here, we lived in New Hampshire where I was a practicing attorney specializing in municipal and land-use law until 2001 when I was appointed to the State Circuit Court bench where I served as a judge for 22 years, taking on senior status in 2022. So as I said, we lived in Lely for -- we had a place in Lely for a long time, and we love it here. We love the area of Naples where we are. We love the people, and we decided we wanted to live here full-time. We watched the Hacienda Lakes development from the beginning as it slowly progressed, and we decided that we would Page 191 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 180 look in there. And we liked it. So before we signed a purchase and sale agreement, I decided I was going to go and look into the PUD, the MPUD, what was going to be allowed, what wasn't going to be allowed, because it seemed to really fit what we were looking for. And I also have had experience with PUDs, and they're a great idea. And the County took great steps in adopting the Growth Management Plan that included PUDs. So as I did that research, I looked carefully at all of the -- all of the minutes. I looked carefully at the hearing before this Commission in 2011 and then the minutes from the passage of Ordinance 11-41, which Mr. Bosi referenced earlier. And in all of those minutes -- and I'm going to read from some of them -- this activity zone was described as a zone with various retail uses, "various retail uses." And it made sense because it was planned to have the multifamily units. It was planned to have the single-family homes, retail and commercial to support it. And Mr. Bosi, thankfully, made my point for me when he got up here and started showing the slides and the purpose and the rationale for PUDs. The first paragraph he quoted from said, "This mixed PUD is mixed use in character," and the words are beautiful. It's designed to be done on a human scale. It's going to be pedestrian friendly, maintaining a wide range of uses. That's why I went there. But what you have in front of you is not a wide range of use. It's a monolith that is going to take up -- despite the fact they said, "We're only using half of the square footage we're allowed." That property is going to be paved over, and you're not going to see any other retail uses except for some small pads. That is not a variety of uses. So when Costco was proposed, I went back and thought, "Well, I must have missed something," because this just does not seem to be consistent with what was represented to the planning office, to the planning board, and to the Commission informing -- when up here Page 192 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 181 forming this MPUD. And in all of those meetings, the representations that were made to the various boards and to this Commission were consistent. For instance, the minutes from the October 25, 2011, meeting, when the Ordinance 11-41 was adopted, Mr. Yanovich [sic], the attorney representing Costco and the developer, states: "We're asking for a maximum of 327,500 square feet of retail uses which are going to be part of this activity center." That would lead one to believe that you would have retail uses that are consistent with a large development, a large neighborhood, and a large market. Again, not one monolithic structure. He then goes on -- and this is on Page 139 of the minutes of October 25, 2011. Again, Mr. Yanovich speaking. "We're asking for the residential PUD with the typical development standards you would find in a residential PUD. We're asking for a commercial PUD with the typical uses and development standards you would find in the PUD." No one could have been contemplating that there would be one use for that retail space for that commercial zone, for this activity zone. Page 142, again, the October 25, 2011, meeting, "What we're doing -- whatever retail we construct on the residential/medical tract would be subtracted from the overall 327,500 square feet of retail uses." So what are the retail uses? What are the commercial uses? This is the important part of my argument, and I would ask you respectfully to pay attention to it, because it goes against what your planner and the Planning Commission -- I'm sorry. Did I say something funny? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, you did. Asking me to pay attention. I thought that was humorous. Page 193 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 182 MR. YAZINSKI: Well, you know what -- you know what, it's part of being a judge and realizing nobody pays attention to you when you're talking. You know, "Counsel, would you pay attention to me?" as I'm talking. I apologize. But now that you are paying attention... Ordinance 11-41 -- and this goes along with what David presented to you about whether or not this is actually a permitted use. And I think if you read the minutes that led to the adoption of this ordinance, along with this proposal -- and stressing what Mr. Wester has said numerous times, that this -- this is one proposal. This is not a retail unit with an accessory gas station. This is one unit. And I suggest to you that that means that this Commission, when it adopted this ordinance, would have made that a permitted use if you intended to have it as a permitted use. But if we go and look at the permitted use, you will find, as Mr. Wester rightly pointed out, 90 or more uses, and they include just about everything you can imagine. Now, laundromats, multi-families, auto stores, auto dealers, building construction, bowling centers, bookkeeping services, business credit institutions, home furniture, glass glaze working, non-depository credit institutions, miscellaneous retail, passenger car leasing; 89 uses until you get to 90. And 90, which Mr. Wester quoted in part, in part, leaving out the most important part, is this, and this is where -- this is where Costco would come in. It's a use that could be permitted if any other commercial use which is comparable in nature with the foregoing list of permitted uses and -- this is the part that he conveniently left out -- and consistent with the purpose and intent statement of the District as determined by the BZA. Well, we know what the purpose and intent is, because Mr. Bosi told us, right? It's supposed to be pedestrian friendly. It's supposed Page 194 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 183 to contain a mix of uses. This Costco goes completely against that. It is one use that is combining a slew of uses. Now, I'll point out again that the ordinance was actually drafted and submitted for the County Commissioners' approval by counsel for the developer. He could have added in Use No. 91, a members-only warehouse with a gas station. I suggest to you, if at that initial meeting October 25, 2011, where the Commission was considering adoption of this ordinance, if that was suggested, it would have been incredulous. You would have said, "No, no, wait. This is an MPUD." Everything that goes in there is supposed to have some benefit to the PUD. It was 1,700 apartments. How does a Costco with a private gas station benefit those 1,700 apartments? You know, you just -- it is not a permitted use. And if you were to find anything, the only way that they could come in front of you would be under Paragraph 90, "any other commercial use," and that would be contingent upon you making the specific factual findings that it is consistent with the purpose-and-intent statement of the District, and I suggest it's not. So the market study was touched on, and the market study lacks a lot of information. It does not show that this proposed gas station actually benefits this market. You heard the numbers. The numbers are accurate. They simply don't meet the criteria. The other thing that's amazing -- and once again, my friend David went into this -- the traffic study is so flawed. And, you know, he's a brilliant real estate attorney. He did the homework. He did the math. He did the research. I suggest before you can even act on this, Costco's got to come back and incorporate the information that he found that's their information about traffic flow and traffic statistics from the memoranda that he found simply by doing a Google search. That traffic study is flawed, and if you allow this to go forward, it's going Page 195 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 184 to go forward with a traffic study that is flawed. So I am done. And I'm going to go back and go home to -- with my wife, Nancy, who -- I promised when I retired I would not be standing in front of boards and making arguments, but here I am. So you're going to hear a presentation from Roy Martin. Mr. Martin, you know, he's not going to tell you about himself, but I'm going to tell you that you're about to hear a presentation from a guy that was -- is one of the smartest people I know. He's a chemical engineer. He personally holds over 60 patents, many dealing with water and treatment of water. So when he comes up, I know he's not going to tell you how qualified he is, but this guy is really, really qualified -- MR. MARTIN: Yes, I am. MR. YAZINSKI: -- and it's interesting. So final words, Edward Abbey, back around 1975, said something that I think is appropriate for this. "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." And all we're doing if we approve this is approving growth for the sake of growth. Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is, in fact, Roy Martin, and he will be followed by Diego Zaragoza-Lemus. Mr. Martin's been ceded additional time from Jacklin -- is this Smurlo? MS. SMULO: Yep. MR. MILLER: Okay. Tom Rath? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Elaine Rath? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Tony or -- I don't know if that's Tony or Toby -- Robesure (phonetic). (No response.) Page 196 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 185 MR. MILLER: R-o-s-e-u-h-e-r-a. (No response.) MR. MILLER: No. All right. Tim Alonzi? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Brian Bina? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Carol Ksiazek? MS. KSIAZEK: Ksiazek. MR. MILLER: Thank you. The silent K got me. And Richard -- not even going to try -- Bikowski. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: All right. So that's going to be a total of 24 minutes. And they will be followed, as I said, by Diego Zaragoza-Lemus. And let me get his PowerPoint up. There you go. MR. MARTIN: Well, thank you for having me. My name is Roy Martin. I'm a resident of Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. My background's chemical engineering, as Jack told you. I have 40 years of water treatment experience specifically in the areas of wastewater, industrial water, oil and gas recovery, and hydrological fracturing. I have 35 slides to get through with limited time, so I'm going to stay on script to complete the presentation on time, then I can take any questions. Initially, it may appear this presentation is a bit off topic, but please bear with me, as in the end the big picture and gravity of its content will come to light. On July 17th, 2025, I presented to the county committee findings from a study conducted by the South Florida Water Management District beside the exposed communities experiencing increased flooding along the Henderson Creek Canal as a result of land development. We live in a floodplain. Knowing the flood risk, Page 197 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 186 what can be done to mitigate the flooding potential? Please note the word "shall." Shall means mandatory. It must be done without exception. Referring to the green highlights. "The floodplain management ordinance shall apply to all developments that is wholly within or partly within any flood hazard area." The plot of land at Collier Boulevard and Rattlesnake Hammock Road is zoned FEMA Zone AH, flood hazard area. The intent of the floodplain management ordinance is to, quote, "Prevent or minimize future flood damage and minimize damage to public and private utilities and facilities." This is the Collier County Land Development Code 6.05.01, water management requirements. I highlighted in blue and green a couple of key elements. Please take note of these key elements, as I will be illustrating examples of them being put to practice. Stormwater runoff from outside the development shall be included in stormwater design and shall provide for optimal on-site detention of stormwater runoff. Metrics were used to assess how these developments are complying with the water management requirement Code 6.05.01. Note the black print. The total impervious surface comprises all surfaces that will produce stormwater runoff, such as the building, roads, parking, sidewalk, et cetera. The metric compares the development design based on a 100-year, three-day storm model. The metric comprises water detention divided by the total impervious surface in order to obtain the percent area for stormwater detention; two, master drainage diagram to determine if drainage connects to the Henderson Creek; and three, identify if an MPDS [sic] permit exists, which is required for stormwater discharge to a waterway. Let's see how these new developments match up. Starting from Page 198 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 187 north to south, Caymas development, water detention to total impervious surface is 240 percent. Note the retention lakes have permanent water but also serve as detention lakes for temporary storage of stormwater runoff. The blue highlighted conduit pipes, they channel water to and between the lakes. Note the yellow highlighted Henderson Creek at top. There is no connection between the Caymas property and the Henderson Creek Canal. Caymas is self-contained. It is following the Collier County codes and ordinances. Caymas is doing it right and being a good neighbor. Moving south along Collier Boulevard, this is the Fiori apartments. This development raises concern. The blue highlighted areas showing the dry detention -- oh, sorry. That's Seven Shores, huh? I'm getting a little ahead of myself. This is the Seven Shores community. Water detention, 52.1 percent. The drainage diagram is similar to Caymas. They use retention lakes that also provide stormwater detention. Note the green highlight. It shows drainage from entrance road directed to Lake 3. Do you recall the Code 0.65.01.B [sic]? Stormwater runoff from outside the development shall be included in the stormwater design. This is an example of the code being put into practice by the developer. Seven Shores development is self-contained. Another good neighbor, this is the Fiori apartments. This development raises concern. The blue highlighted area shows the dry detention that is clearly undersized. The green highlighted area shows the overflow from the stormwater detention drains in the Henderson Creek. Note the MPDES permit. The yellow highlights toward the bottom right is the stormwater discharge rates in the Henderson Creek Canal. I took the liberty to convert them into gallons per minute. Please note how these flow rates are modeled based off the standardized set of storm models. Page 199 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 188 We all -- we should all note that this is water that will be flowing down Henderson Creek Canal that had never done so before. While we don't know what impact this will have on downstream flooding yet, we do know with 100 percent certainty it will not make the flooding risk better. Continuing south, this is the Hammock Park apartments with the 7-Eleven. The development also uses dry detention like Fiori apartment; however, note the green highlighted area, top right. Dry retention overflows to a large preserve located on site. Also note the red highlights to the left showing drainage from Henderson Creek overpass and the 7-Eleven gas station is collected as mandated by Code 6.05.01. Hammock Park apartment is self-contained, having no connection to Henderson Creek Canal. This developer is following the Land Development Codes. Moving to the south and east, we have the Ekos apartments. The red box shows a large retention, Lake 14, where the stormwater is conveyed to. Also, note the property line to the west. It backs up to the Florida Power Light easement, and the built road structures clearly illustrate future development. The yellow highlights show conduit pipe connected to the retention Lake 14 for stormwater detention. The developer is compliant with Collier County codes for land development. This is the initial Costco site plan showing 677,000, plus change, of total impervious surface. This shows the total initial planned expansion of Costco comprising over 767,000 square feet of total impervious surface. Pleas note the green highlights. The latest site plan demonstrates -- and this is dated -- this came from a study dated 7/29/2025. Please note the green highlights. The latest site plan demonstrates Costco will now comprise 969,100 square feet of Page 200 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 189 surface producing stormwater runoff. Also please note the green highlight toward the bottom which states, "It exceeds the overall permitted land uses." This shows the new site plan comprising 969,100 square feet of impervious surfaces that produce stormwater runoff. This is greater than 26 percent larger than the original site plan. It is apparent to me when the County grants Costco a waiver, they add another acre. Furthermore, note the yellow highlighted area. This is the project boundary. So much for restricting the development to the plot of land they purchased. This table shows the on-site underground detention of stormwater. The total capacity is just under 1.8 million gallons of stormwater. This table shows the storage capacity of Lake 13 located on the southwest corner of the proposed Costco property. It has a detention capacity of just under 1.6 million gallons of stormwater. In order for Costco to meet the mandatory on-site detention of stormwater under Code 6.05.01. Like the other developers, they need detention of over 9.4 million gallons of stormwater. Based on Costco's design plan, they only provide enough on-site detention to accommodate less than 36 percent of the mandatory on-site detention of stormwater. Also note the green transparent box on the left showing the plot of land for commercial development while the orange section shows the boundary, the project boundary, as a result of the proposed discharge of stormwater to offsite locations. Now, let's see how Costco stacks up against the other new developments in the area. Even when utilizing underground stormwater detention, which is included in this assessment, the allocation of land for stormwater detention is grossly inadequate. To put into perspective, picture in Page 201 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 190 your mind, if you will, a red fire hydrant. The cap's removed and the valve is fully opened. The rushing stream of water begins flooding the street. Water jumps over the curb onto the grass, et cetera. This example could comprise of about 500 gallons per minute. During a major storm event, on average, Costco's site plan would discharge over 2,100 gallons per minute, equivalent to over four fire hydrants operating at 100 percent capacity. At peak rainfall of three inches per hour, which is a FEMA number, Costco's site plan would discharge over 30,000 gallons per minute. This is equivalent to opening sixty 500-gallon-per-minute fire hydrants full blast. This is the stormwater management report dated September 5th, 2025. It's only five weeks old. Note the yellow highlights requesting a quote, "major modification," to the South Florida Water Management District permit. Essentially, Costco is paving over the plot of land as a result. They do not have sufficient land to allocate toward stormwater detention like that implemented by other developers. Even the underground detention combined with the pond named Lake 13 is grossly undersized. As a result, Costco's now proposing to discharge the stormwater to offsite locations such as Lake 14, then transport the excess stormwater from Lake 14 to open land just north of the Azure community. I converted a proposed 25-year discharge flow rate to gallons per minute. I included the 100-year discharge rate I obtained from Appendix H. Addenda E provided a green highlighted 100-year three-day levels -- stage level of 12.51 feet, which would provide a significant lower discharge rate, as illustrated in Appendix H. In other words, the wrong value was reported. This illustrates that Lake 14 requires a major permit allowance in order to increase the 100-year three-day peak stage to 12.55 feet Page 202 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 191 from 12.51 feet. The report is based on a microcosm of Costco's discharge rate. The 203-page report does not include the existing discharge requirements to Lake 14, comprising over 1.8 million gallons of stormwater from Ekos apartment. This 1.8 million gallons of stormwater would have been detained in Lake 14. Now the additional 1.8 million gallons of stormwater will need to be discharged to the land to the north of Azure under the proposed Costco plan. Not exactly a small amount of water to dismiss as oversight. Here I assess the peak stormwater runoff resulting from both Costco and Ekos using the FEMA three-inch-per-hour rainfall rate. During a major storm event, over 36,000 gallons per minute of stormwater runoff can be produced, equivalent to over -- opening seventy-two 500-gallon-per-minute fire hydrants at the same time. The purple line shows the approximate location where the stormwater will be discharged. The discharge from Lake 14 will comprise stormwater from Costco that is not detained on-site as well as Ekos stormwater runoff, as Lake 14 can no longer detain the Ekos stormwater without exceeding the 12.55-foot peak stage resulting from their proposed major modification. It is important to realize that during a major storm event like the 100-year model required, the over 15 inches of rainwater is being distributed across the entire region. Lake 14 receives it as well as the land where the over 7.8 million gallons of stormwater runoff is proposed to discharge onto. The land will become saturated, and the water will pool. Adding over 7.8 million gallons of water onto the top of saturated soil is enough to cover 24 acres of land with one foot of stormwater. South Florida Water Management District has determined that the severity of major storm events has increased. As a result, the Page 203 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 192 South Florida Water Management District is in the process of increasing their design factors to compensate. This is a 2022 memorandum. The yellow highlights show that for the 10-year, three-day model, the South Florida Water Management District will increase the design requirements by an additional 23 percent. Relating this to the Costco site plan, this change would then require on-site detention of over 11.5 million gallons of stormwater runoff. The fact that Southwest Florida district is in the process of updating their models as a result of increased storm intensity. This knowledge should drive home the severe risk associated with deviating from Code 6.05.01, that mandates on-site detention of stormwater runoff. The intent of the floodplain management ordinance is to quote, "prevent or minimize future flood damage" and quote, "minimize damage to public and private facilities and utilities." Code 6.05.01 is in place to ensure intent of the floodplain management ordinance. It is achieved by mandating on-site detention of stormwater runoff. This is an illustration exemplifying how this plot of land could be developed while meeting the established codes and ordinances. It could also serve the entirety of the local residential communities with restaurants and shops, a beautiful retention lake with fountains that enhance the beauty of Southwest Florida, or it could also be a Costco that is being a good neighbor. The development is self-contained, like the majority of new developments in the area, meeting the mandatory codes and ordinances. The entire development fits into the plot of land being purchased. The commercially zoned plot of land in question was never meant to be exploited in the manner being proposed. The proposed Costco site plan fits into this plot of land like a Page 204 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 193 man fits in a 52-inch -- with a 52-inch waist fits in a Size 40 pants. It doesn't work. The codes of -- the codes on the books are to commute county laws that shall be enforced without exception. They are mandated. When codes and ordinances are waived, there is a risk, and with risk comes liability and accountability. I've demonstrated how other developments designed their site plans to meet the requirements of the mandated codes. The proposed Costco Land Development Code looks nothing like these other new developments. What was initially a proposed 607,000-square-foot impervious area has now grown to over 969,000 square feet. As I previously stated, every time the County provides a waiver, Costco adds an acre. The floodplain management ordinance is in place to ensure the safety and well-being of the public and property. The risk and potential harm to life and property I just exposed is very real. Turn on the news, and we hear, with increased frequency, interviews from people in communities to our north describing how they'd lived for 20 years and never experienced flooding like they do now. More often than not, the flooding is attributed to the building of new developments. We've all heard the phrase, "Looking at the trees instead of the forest." Does anyone believe those developments didn't undergo extensive site planning and move through various committees before being approved? Maybe those involved in signing off the design plans were so focused on their small portion of the project, they missed the 1.8 million gallons stormwater runoff already allocated to the retention lakes. Oops. I've done what I can do. Now the onus to prevent this from happening to the residential communities is now in the hands of our elected officials. Page 205 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 194 I've come here today to disclose on the record the gravity of the self-inflicted risk. These risks can be mitigated by simply enforcing the codes meant to ensure the safety and well-being of the residents and property. The law is on the side of this committee. To me, it is an easy decision. For my parting comment, I'm going to use an analogy. The federal government comprises three equal bodies: Executive, legislative, and judiciary. The judiciary is there not to make the law but to ensure the executive and legislative branches operate within the law. This committee is the judiciary. It is your responsibility to ensure whatever comes your way meets the county codes and ordinances to ensure the safety and well-being of the residents and property. The various other entities involved in the permitting, design approvals, et cetera, comprise the other branches of government. It doesn't matter what they approve. This committee needs to consider if they -- if what they approve meets the requirements within the established codes and ordinance of Collier County. This plot of land will be developed, but will it be developed to serve the residential community or serve Costco? I thank you for your time and attention. I can take a question. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Diego Zaragoza-Lemus, and he'll be followed by David Stasiak. MR. ZARAGOZA: Hi. My name's Diego Zaragoza. I'm 26 years old, and I'm a long-term resident here in Naples, Florida. I came to this place when I was only five months old, in the year 1999. And for me, it's kind of hypocritical that the residents of Hennesy [sic] Lakes have any issues with a brand-new Costco being built here when previously, before the year 2012, their community Page 206 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 195 wasn't even built. Can I get this thing to show pictures? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Ms. Patterson -- if that will work. MR. MILLER: Kind of. MR. ZARAGOZA: As you can see, right here in the picture it says that -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're going to need to use -- MR. MILLER: You're going to need to stay on the microphone, sir. MR. ZARAGOZA: As you can see, it says that Hennesy [sic] Lakes was built in the year 2012 and still being built as of right now. So even before this, I remember the whole entire Hennesy Lakes was nothing but trees and stuff like that. So for them to complain about this new Costco being built is as -- like I said, is hypocritical and laughable. As you can see the current Costco, and right there at the blue is where I currently live. I live at Tuscan Isle. And as you can see, it takes about 22 minutes to get to the current Costco. With the new proposed Costco -- with the new proposed Costco, it will cut that time in half. And I speak not just for myself but for -- hold on. I accidently deleted it. But -- anyways. I speak for the entire of the residents of Golden Gate and Naples Manor that this brand-new Costco being built will save us time to get to this Costco. And not only that, but as a long-term resident I'm seeing a lot of new development here in Naples. And as I grew up here in Naples, I've been through Lely, Manatee, Osceola Elementary School, Pine Ridge Middle School, and lastly, Lely High School as my graduating year of 2018. And I've seen a lot of new changes being built here. I'm seeing new communities like this. Right here, this is a new resident Page 207 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 196 apartment complex in Golden Gate being built, right there. And over here in this red, as you can see, you're seeing that brand-new highway where I live, that pin -- that pink pin where that is, that's where I live. And in that -- in the red, they're building a new highway and stuff like that. And I know there's going to be a new apartment complex there. And on the right, on the top right, there's going to be a brand-new Chick-fil-A there. And I'm excited for all of this development, because I'm -- I'm excited of all of this brand-new things going on in Naples. I'm excited that a lot of new people are coming into this city. But it's -- like I said, it's laughable and hypocritical that any brand-new residents coming over here in Naples have any problem -- or have any issue with a new building being built in their area for, like I said, Costco, and I have no issue with Costco being built there at all. So like I said, hypocritical and laughable, and you guys, like I said, your residence was not even there at all. It was nothing but trees and nature. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Excuse me. You need to address just us, not the audience. MR. ZARAGOZA: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But like I said, before their residency, there was nothing but trees and nature, and now they're concerned about, like, oh, environmental concerns or safety concerns. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And your time is up. MR. ZARAGOZA: Can I say just one more thing? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One sentence, if you could do it quickly. MR. ZARAGOZA: Okay. Build that Costco for the entire long-term resident of Naples, please and thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Page 208 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 197 MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Stasiak, and he will be followed by Lanette Keller. MR. STASIAK: Yes. My name is David Stasiak. I live at 8064 Calle Canovas Court in Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. I am currently -- the development is at the dead-end of Rattlesnake and [sic] Hammock Road. My main concern, especially after -- Roy Martin mentioned about the storm surge and the storage of this water. This is -- it's causing the additional flooding in that area. I was told that -- my insurance company, Galt Insurance, they said that the flood insurance -- the flood rate from FEMA was changed in this area due to the overdevelopment within this area. Also, I wanted to mention that in March of 2017, there was a fire of 6,000 acres which closed down Collier Boulevard from Davis to -- all the way to Rattlesnake Hammock Road. Just a few months ago, we had a fire in our preserve, which is located right behind Azure, and it threatened our area. I'm concerned about being trapped in this area and having adequate infrastructure and roads that are nonexistent right now, but we exist and -- for evacuation purposes. If there is an accident or catastrophic event at that intersection of Rattlesnake and Collier, it is going to impede a large number of people trying to get out of that area. I guess -- also, I understand that -- the agreement between Costco and Physicians Regional Medical Center concerning the additional flow of traffic from Collier and using their private property and -- to have access to Costco. I find that just applorable [sic] that a medical center would even consider that. That property is for the safety of their patients and the family members in that area. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to -- we need you to wrap -- yeah, you need to wrap up if you would. Page 209 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 198 MR. STASIAK: Yeah. So my main concern is that I would be trapped in that area. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. STASIAK: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lanette Keller. She'll be followed by Herman Diebler -- or Diebler. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right. MR. DIEBLER: Diebler. MR. MILLER: Thank you. MS. KELLER: Good afternoon, Commissioners and staff. My name is Lanette Keller. I live at Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. My family moved to Naples in 1966, so I've seen many changes and weathered many storms. I worked as a State of Florida employee working here at the Collier County Courthouse for almost 40 years for elected officials. I'm totally aware of the commitment it takes, dedication, honor, challenges, and demands of being an elected official. It has its rewards, but it has its downfalls. I thank each and every one of you for your service. Over many years, I witnessed your success in dealing with overwhelming growth and the infrastructure modifications that had to support this rapid growth. I really appreciate what you've done for our community. My concern is all the brick and mortar that is continually being constructed in Collier County. This growth has forced a change in Collier County flood zones and most likely will continue to do so. I realize we can't stop growth and, quite frankly, if I lived up north, I'd be moving here too. I'm requesting you carefully review each brick-and-mortar proposed project that comes before you in the future as it will affect so many aspects of this beautiful city I call home. The green space is quickly disappearing, and when we are hit Page 210 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 199 with another storm -- and we will be -- major storm, more flooding in our homes and businesses will occur. Maybe part of that solution is to encourage developers to put in more green space in these projects. I currently live behind the proposed Costcos [sic]. I'm not against Costcos in East Naples; however, putting Costcos on the corner of Rattlesnake Hammock Road and 951 concerns me. Why is it necessary to make an exception to a variance to allow so many tanks on one corner? Won't this hurt the existing businesses? Is this a need or just another want? Adding another business on that corner with such high volumes of traffic and multiple gas tanks adds to the safety concerns for those who live there and for those who recently moved there. The newly constructed buildings include numerous apartment buildings, a lower income adult apartment building, an assisted living facility, and soon to be added a nursing home and a school all on Rattlesnake Hammock and 951. I realize there will be a commercial project there of some sort, but why does it have to be one of such large volumes of traffic and one that does not benefit all residents, as it's a member-only club? Thank you for your time, and thank you for permitting me to be here today. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Herman Diebler. He'll be followed by William Dunn. Mr. Diebler's been ceded three additional minutes from Leigh Breeden. Leigh, are you here? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: She's here. He will have a total of six minutes. MR. DIEBLER: Good morning -- or good evening, I should say, at this point. Page 211 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 200 My name is Herman Diebler. I'm from the Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. I've lived in Collier County going on 30 years now. Over the years, I've seen much change in our county and, by enlarge, I've pretty much learned to respect the decisions made by our Collier County governing boards; however, this Costco situation is a real concern. I have attended a number of Costco meetings whose purpose was to advance Costco's desire to build their warehouse complex in the Hacienda development. Each meeting consisted of checking a progression of boxes, which would lead Costco to their eventual success. The box labeled "common sense" was always missing, and I think you've heard this before. When it was brought up, we always heard, "Well, it was not our job." Well, whose job is it? I think it's your job. At least, I hope it's your job. Hacienda property is zoned for commercial use, which is understood. The box is checked, is labeled "department store," but let's apply a little common sense to that. Now, say, a Boeing 787 wanted to land in our airport. Our airport, at one point, had a box that said, "Check for airplanes only." Well, a 787 is an airport -- is an airplane and, therefore, we shall allow 787 to land at our airport, and we would accommodate it. I doubt you -- I doubt very much that you would probably think that -- I doubt you would agree with it, because it doesn't make common sense. It's a -- and the outcry of the residents is such that you wouldn't do it. Now, I use the same common sense -- and Costco Warehouse. Costco Warehouse is a Boeing 787. It's immense. Costco is not a department store. It's a mammoth department store requiring massive infrastructure to operate, infrastructure which, due to the property's limited size and location, will greatly impact the surrounding Page 212 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 201 community. One of the main things to consider is traffic and congestion. The property's location offers some unique challenges. Collier Boulevard is a major thoroughfare leading north to Route 75. Rattlesnake Hammock is a dead-end servicing 3,000 residents at this point. The residents are all in walking distance to Costco, but to shop at Costco you need a car to carry your stuff. Assuming 1.2 cars per -- 1.6 cars per family, that's 4,800 cars, and they have to go both ways, so that's almost 10,000 cars. They'll be using Rattlesnake Hammock Road from one time to another. Costco states that they expect 9,000 cars a day entering and leaving their property. Now, add to this the normal season traffic on Collier Boulevard, and now add the constant stream of 18-wheelers needed to stock the mammoth -- mammoth facility and 18-wheelers delivering gas all day and night. I don't know where they're going to turn around, but that's something else. Now, the worst part, there is only one entrance and one exit on Rattlesnake Hammock Road to the Costco complex plus one entrance on Collier Boulevard shared with Physicians Regional hospital. This is the same entrance the hospital uses for patients and doctors and emergency vehicles. It's a mess. Now, with all of the traffic -- now, with all of this, the traffic congestion box was checked "no problem." You know, it's no problem because they just listen to -- your underlings just listen to what Costco told them and agreed to it; that's why there's no problem. We are told it is justified for another gas station in this area. Now, I don't -- I don't -- I don't understand that. Yeah, they -- I got a little ahead of myself. We're talking about a gas station now. We have two, as you know, on the corner right now, and we'll be adding a third. There are 20 gas stations within a five-minute radius. Do we need another gas station? I think it's been Page 213 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 202 demonstrated you don't need another gas station. Costco said you need another gas station. This gas station is significantly less than 500 feet from another gas station. We've heard about that. It's a variance of code, and it's granted. You have the variance. Why? Because they wanted it. There was no reason. There are 28 gas stations -- there are 28 pumping stations for gas, pumping the least expensive gas in the area. They're going to be pumping a lot of gas, and there will be a lot of 18-wheelers coming. Considering this, no problem. We need a gas station. Now, with all these problems -- with all of these problems, they really can be eliminated if you consider what we talked about, which was a Costco building a facility on Collier County -- in Collier County, which we definitely need, and it should be put at the Davis and Santa Barbara location. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need you to wrap up there. MR. DIEBLER: It's wrapped up. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. MR. DIEBLER: Your next speaker is William Dunn. He'll be followed by Kenneth Buffum. Mr. Dunn has been ceded additional time from Chris Dunn. Chris, are you here? MS. DUNN: Chris is speaking on her own. MR. MILLER: Okay. Well, that was not done correctly. Okay. Ceded time from Chris Wiendszak. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Okay. And Susan Wiendszak. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: And Ron -- well, no, that's going to the other one. So he will have a total of nine minutes. One more. There you go. Page 214 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 203 MR. DUNN: Good morning -- or good afternoon now. My name is William Dunn. I'm a full-time resident in Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. I retired as a police commander after 32 years of service with the Chicago Police Department. Twenty-two of those years were in supervisory and upper-level management positions. During that time, I have gained immeasurable knowledge and experience in safety issues and traffic management. There's not enough time now to go over the myriad of problems associated with this project, so I'll try to limit my time to just the market analysis, a little bit of traffic, and some human safety issues. You've already heard many, many times about the flawed market analysis. So -- MR. MILLER: Sir, could you pull that microphone over towards you a little bit? There you go. MR. DUNN: I speak pretty loud. You've already heard about the flawed market analysis many times over. There's just a couple things in that analysis that needs to be restated again to get the point across. Their study states that there's 21 gas stations already within 10 minutes of Collier and Rattlesnake; 21. Costco plans to add another 190,385 gallons of gas a week, which is only available to members of their warehouse. So if you divide that amount of gas that they see as going to be needed in the future, divide it up among the 21 existing gas stations, it shows that there's absolutely positively no need for another gas station. The market study says also that there will be no negative impact on existing businesses. Absolutely not true. A little touch on environmental stuff. It kind of goes along with the traffic thing. Costco claims, according to their study, they're going to sell 9,900,000 gallons of gas a year, almost 10 million gallons of gas. So that's 10 million gallons of gas that Page 215 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 204 need to be transported in tankers, delivered to the location, need to be pumped into the ground, and need to be stored under 24 gas pumps. Now, I know before they showed you that nice little pretty picture about -- or talked about how they have this state-of-the-art process with the gas and all that stuff. Oh -- first of all, I'll go back a minute. On top of all that, they have access for 70 cars to be idling all at the same time waiting for gas for 10 or 15 minutes. And now, again, they go back to the -- all these things they claim they have in place and -- but they meet all the standards and time -- accidents happen. There was a factory just a couple -- last week in Tennessee that blew up, killed 30 or 40 people, however many it was. A plane crashed on 75 a little while back. Those things weren't supposed to happen. They had things in place that they probably told people, oh, no, don't worry about it. This will never happen. Accidents happen. Catastrophes happen. So they could tell you all these things are great, but something could still go wrong. Now, for the biggest Costco lie, that their gas is cheaper than everybody else. It's not true every day of the week. For the past month I've been monitoring gas prices between RaceTrac, 7-Eleven, and Costco. Each day the prices fluctuate a little bit. Sometimes one is higher than the other; however, in the past month, the average price of gas at Costco has been $2.96 while RaceTrac and 7-Eleven have both been $2.98. It's two-cent difference. If you factor in the private membership fee you must pay to buy their gas, waiting in line for 10 minutes to fill your car up, while you're burning fuel, Costco gas is costing you more money. Several of the other gas stations also have frequent customer discounts that you don't have to pay for. Costco doesn't have that. Costco's flawed market analysis states there will be at least Page 216 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 205 2,300 more households in the area. They claim that these households will average 1.64 cars per household. In addition to those cars, as it's been stated many times, Costco originally claimed that there would be 4,500 cars a day accessing the facility. That's 4,400 cars in -- or 4,500 cars in, 4,500 cars out. Added that to the already existing 13,000-plus cars that are already in Esplanade, Azure, Ekos, and Sapphire, all of which will be jockeying for position on Rattlesnake Hammock. This intersection was not designed with the intention of handling this enormous volume of traffic. Rattlesnake Hammock, east of Collier, is not designed to safely handle this volume of traffic. Can't be said enough. The traffic study that was done for Costco did not include any traffic concern on Rattlesnake Hammock east of Collier. It's invalid. Rattlesnake Hammock, east of Collier, is a road that allows access to several residential communities and should not be used for commercial property access. The major ingress and egress is an extremely short distance away from the intersection. The traffic study that was done by Alex Roark Engineering clearly shows that the proposed design has serious flaws and is not valid. What I want to do with this little thing here, too -- and I apologize if it's not as fancy, but I don't -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You are going to need to use the microphone if you're speaking, so... MR. DUNN: This is Collier Boulevard. Learn something new every day. This is Collier Boulevard here. This is Rattlesnake. These are the two going southbound on Collier. There's two turn lanes to turn onto Rattlesnake. There's also a turn lane, a turn right on lane [sic] that comes off of Collier when you go northbound. So you're potentially having three lanes of traffic all going at the same time. Page 217 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 206 We all know how people drive in Florida. Stopping at -- using turn signals is optional, and stopping at right turns on red is also optional. So there are going to be three lanes of traffic, potentially, merging into two lanes, merging into one lane to access where the gas is. Nobody is going to keep going down to go to the other access point that's down here. They're going to see that gas pump. Then they're going to be, "Ooh, I've got to get there before everyone else does. I see that there's 10 or 15 cars in line already. I want to get there as quickly as I can." Ninety percent of the people come in there, probably more, are going to be going to that access, crossing three lanes of traffic to go into one. When they're -- then after they get gas, when they exit, they're going to come -- they're going to come out, and then they're going to be eastbound onto Collier -- or I mean Rattlesnake. Where this proposed light is -- well, what we thought was a proposed light that now apparently is a done deal, they're going to have to make a U-turn to go back down Rattlesnake which, again, creates a whole 'nother traffic jam. I see -- there's only two questions I've got left to leave you guys with. Would you want this in your neighborhood? And if so, please ask Costco to find you a spot in your neighborhood. We're not against having Costco. We just don't want it in that spot. The other question I have is after the first tragedy happens, and it will, are you able to look yourself in the mirror knowing that you could have stopped this? Just because something can be done doesn't mean it has to be done. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. MR. DUNN: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kenneth Buffum. He'll be followed by Chris Dunn. Page 218 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 207 Oh, I'm sorry. He's been ceded three additional minutes from Michael -- is it Rucks? (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: He'll have a total of six minutes. MR. BUFFUM: Good afternoon. My name is Kenneth Buffum. I live at Hacienda Lakes. So how's the brain fog? Good? Setting in? I know. I've been sitting out there, and it's foggy. So I'm going to talk about a few things that hopefully we haven't touched on. The PUD, their intentions were and marketed by Taylor Morrison as a mixed-use general public area. People would go walk, drive, bike ride for shops, a different bunch of shops. In fact, the group that built the apartments also touted that as a place for their residents to walk to to be serviced, to have, you know, amenities there. But Costco's not open to the public. You have to be a member. You have to want to join or can afford to join. Some people can't. They don't offer senior discounts. They don't offer first responder discounts. They don't offer -- well, they don't offer kind of a backhanded active military discount. You know, it's, you know, kind of, "Here, we'll give you $20, but you have to pay the freight," but that's a one-time deal. So that's kind of a thing. So, again, if you want to pay the freight, you can shop and buy gas and buy all your $500 cases of paper towels. Getting back to -- or getting -- signing [sic] on Rattlesnake Hammock. The County says it's an arterial road. Well, if you look at the whole road, it certainly is. There's access points and egress points all over the place, until you get to Collier Boulevard and east. It's a dead-end road. You can't get in and you can't get out unless you go out to Collier Boulevard. There's supposed to be a road proposed, but that's not until -- I'm going to be 100 when that's built, and I'm not Page 219 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 208 quite there yet. Oh. So congestion. That was -- congestion is part of the things that you need to be looking at. That's part of the plan, and that was kind of left out by the staff. They didn't talk about congestion was, you know, part of the ordinance. Congestion is twofold. How many gas stations do you need on a corner, and how many cars are going to bring [sic] to that corner? The cars, the vehicles, as other people have already stated, are way over the capacity for that road and for that small intersection. I'm not going to use all my time. A rhetorical question: Can somebody tell us how that light got approved without anybody in the neighborhood even knowing about it? And I thank you, and I appreciate your time. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Chris Dunn. She'll be followed by Jose Torres. Ms. Dunn's been ceded additional time from Sharon Pescheret. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Oh. Did I say it that badly? Ron Roshelli. (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: So Chris Dunn will have a total of nine minutes. MS. DUNN: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for letting us have a chance to speak. MR. MILLER: On the mic, please, ma'am. MS. DURKIN: Thanks for letting us have a chance to speak to all of you. My name is Chris Dunn, and I live with Bill Dunn in the Esplanade for about seven years now. Most of us from Azure and Esplanade homeowners as well as the approximately 3,000 apartment renters that will be coming moved into this community because of the options that Rattlesnake Hammock, east from Collier, and Carmen Page 220 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 209 Road north and south, allow us to do. I have a few photos here to kind of show you, like, we are pedestrians that use this roadway. That isn't happening in a lot of other places. It's just vehicle traffic from your home to the shop, from the shop to home. So along the way I'm going to show you -- and you'll see all walks of life from young to old, no disabilities to a couple disabilities. Using east of Collier on Rattlesnake allows us to use the sidewalk safely. We get to go from one place to another. We get to visit each other in different complexes. We get to take our dogs for walks, and we also get to use the bike lane that was installed for us. And we're very appreciative of that, because it gets boring going around our complex four or five times just to get 10 miles in. The sidewalks east on Rattlesnake and Carmen allow the residents and the apartment renters to go to grocery stores. I had a lady friend that lived in the neighborhood, didn't have a license or a car, so she walked from her house up Rattlesnake to Collier to cross to do her shopping, also to use the CAT, the bus system. So we really appreciate, but we want you to see how many people -- and this is out of season -- actually use this street. Dog walkers -- dog walkers, people who need strollers push their children, people on their bikes carrying their children on the bikes. There we go. Sorry. And as you can see, there's people that actually have shopping bags in their arms because they actually do walk that mile to the local Publix coming from the apartment complex that doesn't have storage for big-box bulk items, and they don't have a second fridge or freezer to put that extra meat that you have to buy from Costco. This is another picture of how busy the street gets and people actually crossing it. I'm really not making this up. In season, it gets even busier. Page 221 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 210 This other photograph actually shows us bike-riding and then a couple. That couple waiting to cross the street has to deal with the people who don't stop when they turn on red going north on Collier, and that top picture, even one of those people, the mom and the dad, have a baby in a carrier on the front of that bike. It's a scary situation. I either walk or bike once a day, and you can't believe how many people try and make that turn when that signal says that I have the right-of-way to go. And then, once I'm about to get to the other side of Collier, the inside right lane that's going south on Collier can't see me because of all of the three lanes of traffic, and most of the time I have to do a dead stop so that I don't get hit or run over by that vehicle. Too much traffic, is what I'm saying, is already here, and that's before the big-box store comes in with 4,000-plus people coming through a day. We want shopping. We eat out all the time. I shop all the time. We just want it with a controlled environment. The last thing I want to talk about is kind of dear to me. It's about safety. I would really urge you to look into the 911 calls, the dispatches to the emergency building that we have, which is No. 25, and see how many runs they do a day. I notice anywhere from two to three times that I'm seeing the ambulance or the fire truck coming out of their house to service people. If there's anyone they need to service going west on Rattlesnake or south on Collier, they actually have to come a long way around, which takes about a mile and a half to come up Carmen, then to go west on Rattlesnake, to then finally make the turn left on Collier or to go straight ahead. This isn't something that's mentioned, but if you pull those run sheets, do the FOIA Act, what it might be called here, it would show you how often and where they have to go. On one of my next pictures here, it does show the house when Page 222 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 211 the ambulance -- when the ambulance or the fire truck will go west on Hacienda Lake Parkway. They can take a right, but that big rig -- and I was a law enforcement person that did a lot of traffic where I had to rush ambulances and fire trucks to the hospitals or I had to do accidents because, as they're trying to make these wide turns, cars think they can sneak in and don't realize they need the wide turn, and then we don't have that first responder going to the emergency situation. Here's -- there is a picture of the Firehouse 25. And as it goes westbound to Collier, you can see that they have to actually cross a pathway where walkers and bicycles can use that path on Collier, as well as when they get to that intersection, there's no way they can make that left-hand turn. It wasn't designed for them to go that way. It does say "emergency vehicles," but if you look at the next picture, there's a big semi rig blocking that little pickup truck to even turn right. Now imagine this big-rig fire truck or ambulance trying to make a left turn. They have to get permission from three lanes of traffic going northbound to let them through, and then they have to make that wide turn to go southbound. From my experience, it doesn't happen. And if it does, it's not easy. Those two or three extra minutes that it takes our EMS to get around the neighborhood to get to that emergency call, it could mean someone's life. It could mean a stroke that can't be fixed or a heart attack. So it's really important that you realize that putting this Costco in makes a lot of traffic problems and doesn't allow those of us who use the outside sidewalks and bike paths on Rattlesnake Hammock Road, east of Collier, safety. I will have to cross -- cross across the driveway two times of Costco as well as the apartment complex while trying to get home or circle around that complex area. Not an easy feat. Cars do not Page 223 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 212 always stop for human beings, and if I just happen to drop that water bottle or that kid slides off that parent's bike and they stop because they're preparing, that car that's in a hurry, that truck that has to make a delivery, it's an accident waiting to happen. And it could be a catastrophic one. Thank you for listening to me. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jose Torres. He'll be followed by Lynn Bowman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, how are we doing on the speakers? MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I was trying to surprise you. Lynn Bowman is the last speaker we have registered. She has two additional speakers ceding time to her, for nine minutes. MR. TORRES: Good afternoon, gentlemen. My name is Jose Torres, and I'm a Costco member. I don't come here with any specifics. I'm not studious. I'm not -- I don't have any graphics or anything like that. I'm just a concerned neighbor. I'm a retired airline pilot. I'm a retired -- not retired, but I'm a former military officer. I was a medevac helicopter pilot twice combat -- twice in combat. And my concern, as that of many others, is safety, but let me start by saying that this is not -- this group is not a group that moved into the neighborhood that had an airport and then is complaining about the airplane noise. We were there first, and now they want to build something that is not going for benefit all of us because, unless you're a member, you're not going to benefit from it. So I mentioned -- I wrote letters to all of you. Some of you were able to answer me. One of you answered me when I mentioned this other plot of land, that you are not in the business of real estate. Page 224 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 213 Understood. Point taken. Then that same person told me that the petitioner, as long as he is -- meets the letter of the law, he's entitled. If they're asking for a waiver, which, by definition, is an exception, they don't meet the letter of the law. I brought the possibility of improbable scenarios like, for example, somebody having a medical issue hitting a pump, creating an explosion before we knew anything about this new traffic light. Somebody hitting a fueling truck, causing a problem. How are first responders going to act? If it's too close to the hospital, how are you going to evacuate that hospital? I flew medevacs in combat. I'm not going to go there with a fire right next to -- and a single helipad. There's no way. How many ambulances are you going to need to evacuate that hospital? When I mentioned that, the gentleman from Costco said something about I should know more about redundancy training and et cetera. I know about redundancy, and I know about emergency equipment, et cetera, et cetera. What I'm going to say is that redundancy and training is used to minimize the consequences of the improbable happening. It does not prevent the improbable from happening. The only way to make it impossible is not letting Costco establish themselves there. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your final speaker on this agenda item is Lynn Bowman. She's been ceded three additional minutes from Mary Gould. Mary, are you -- (Raises hand.) MR. MILLER: Oh, I see the hand. And Elizabeth -- is this McGuire? McGrew? MS. McGUIRE: McGuire. MR. MILLER: She'll have a total of nine minutes. Page 225 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 214 MS. BOWMAN: Well, last but not least. Anyway, my name is Lynn Bowman, and I'm a permanent resident of Naples, Florida. I reside at 8182 Luccello Terrace South in Esplanade of Hacienda Lakes. I am a retired 42-year care -- healthcare professional that worked in a hospital in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metropolitan area. I want to point out that currently and for years I have an executive membership of Costco. I love Costco; however, I'm here to dispute the location of a new Costco at this corner of Collier Boulevard and Rattlesnake Hammock intersection. This plot of land is not a good fit for a big-box warehouse with 24 more pump gas stations [sic]. I respect the four criteria points that the planning and zoning committee used to grant a 500-foot waiver to include another gas station into our specific corner. It's really a micro snapshot of the Collier Boulevard/Rattlesnake intersection and how this would affect only those that are adjacent to or share a common property line, such as the Ekos apartments to the east. However, I am here to dispute two of those four criteria. One, the barrier between gas stations, and No. 2, whether granting of the waiver will have adverse impact on adjacent land uses, mainly residential. I realize that this may be a moot point since the planning commissioners passed this waiver at the September 18th meeting, but please bear with me as I state my objection. The Collier County Land Development Code requires 500-foot separation between the new gas stations for a reason; to reduce traffic, environmental risks, and negative community impacts. Collier County requires a 500-foot separation between gas stations primarily for public safety. We do not need another gas station with 24 pumps stations on the corner of Collier/Rattlesnake. We already have, on two diagonal Page 226 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 215 corners, a RaceTrac with 16 pumps and a 7-Eleven also with 16 pumps, which you have heard many times. That's a total of 32 gas pumps just on our busy intersection with 21 more gas stations within a 10-minute drive. Costco may argue that it's members-only gas station, but this is a big-box warehouse with 24 more gas pumps that will bring excessive amounts of traffic for its cheaper gas rates. Costco already claims that 4,500 vehicles daily will come to their store alone. What happens when we add to that the people from the 2,700 units of apartments that are already built and starting to lease, the 800-plus residential single-family homes of Esplanade Hacienda Lakes, which I'm a member of, and Azure, the memory-care facility, the fire department and the EMTs, and the proposed elementary school with all of the buses and parents picking up their children, not to mention high-season traffic? It will be a traffic nightmare. This leads to my dispute of the second criteria, number two, whether granting of a waiver will have adverse impact on adjacent land uses, especially residential. I realize that the word "adjacent" is used, but what we really need to do is address the major elephant in the room which is the incomplete infrastructure. What do I mean by "infrastructure"? The roadway system. We have a Class 3 arterial divided four-lane road, Rattlesnake Hammock, which becomes a dead-end at that entrance to the community of Azure. Currently, we do not have a north/south major arterial road that we can have to get out and into our community. This road is going to eventually be known as Benfield Road. This subject, the infrastructure of the roadways, was briefly mentioned in the July and September meeting minutes first by Jaime Cook, the director of Development Review of Collier County Government. In the July minutes she stated, "This is the proposed Page 227 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 216 Costco," pointing to a map. "And I'm so sorry for the people who live in Hacienda," meaning the Esplanade, Hacienda Lake, and Azure residents. The road ends where Azure's entrance is. What Transportation's proposal is is a proposed road, Benfield, that will extend north from here, but there will be nothing further to the east. Also, Commissioner Schumacher, on September 18th meeting minutes, quoted, "I think that it's going to be a detriment to the neighboring properties with the amount of traffic that's coming in without the extra arterial road connection to Rattlesnake Hammock to take the pressure off of that." Basically, east and west entrance into the property. I went a bit farther and spoke with Lorraine Lantz, who is a lawyer in Naples and the manager of Transportation Planning for Collier County, concerning the completion date of this Benfield Road. This particular road would be our north/south arterial road that would go through Azure and Esplanade at Hacienda Lakes. She stated that it isn't listed in her long-range plans which go to the year 2045. That's 20 years from now. Financial funding isn't there. In conclusion, an incomplete roadway infrastructure negatively affects communities by causing safety risks and economic disadvantages such as increased accidents. Longer travel times can hinder emergency vehicles from reaching their destinations quickly, delaying crucial response times. An incomplete road with only one major road in and out, and that's ours, Rattlesnake, it severely impacts residents during an accident or catastrophic event leading to a crippling gridlock that traps residents, like me. It impends [sic] emergency services getting in and out and isolates the community. The single point of failure creates a dangerous bottleneck where accidents or natural disasters can have cascading consequences for safety, evacuation, and delivery of vital resources. Page 228 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 217 The lack of alternative routes such as a north/south arterial road cuts off our community's lifeline. The north/south or future arterial road, Benfield, that would complete our infrastructure has no financial funding for the foreseeable future; in fact, through 2045. So the golden question is, what are you going to do about this? The addition of a Costco to our intersection will lead [sic] a nightmare with the excessive traffic it will bring. In a majority of sites chosen for a Costco to be built, it has built in a commercial area that has two major completed arterial roads that can have -- they can use to enter and exit. Usually it's in a business district along with other businesses such as a Lowe's, Staples, and Best Buy, to name a few. It's in a business district. It isn't built in the middle of a residential area and adjacent to the hospital. At its North Naples location, people can enter Naples Boulevard directly from Airport-Pulling or Pine Ridge. May I add that Naples Boulevard is a four-lane north/south divided roadway. Mr. Wester, who represents Costco, said in his September 18th meeting minutes that there are examples of Costcos that sit adjacent to residential neighborhoods in Coral Springs, Estero, and two in Fort Myers. That may be true, but studying the maps around each of those Costco stores, each of the neighborhoods have completed infrastructures, meaning they have a main road that goes north and south and east and west. Again, this doesn't hold true for our community. As long as we are talking about roadway infrastructure, let's mention the easement that Costco acquired from Physicians Regional which is already documented and entered into the court system, the hospital loop road which goes around the hospital. Customers will enter Costco at the hospital stoplight, loop around the hospital, and enter Costco at the south end of its property. This definitely was -- this definitely was a very clever way of Costco getting in and Page 229 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 218 out of another major arterial road, Collier Boulevard. But will this easement really last? In my opinion, no. Why? In the September 18th minutes, Cunningham said, "It will be more attractive for people who are coming from the south corridor and the traffic projected to that." The statement refers that 25 percent of the people that go from Costco traffic of 4,500 people is estimated at 1,125 vehicles that will daily use that east -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need you to wrap up. MS. BOWMAN: Okay -- loop road. So what -- I guess what I'm trying to say -- and I can't finish it -- is that since an easement was established and recorded with Physicians Regional, it also can be broken, because if -- there's going to be a lot of liability suits. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, ma'am. We're going to -- your time is up. MS. BOWMAN: Okay. All I'd like to -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Excuse me. Your time is up. Mr. Miller, do we have any other speakers? MR. MILLER: No, we do not, sir, and as unpopular as it might be, it's time for a court reporter break. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, understood. We're going to take a break in just a minute. Mr. Wester, if I'm saying that correctly, you'll have an opportunity to spend a few minutes rebutting the public comment. I would suggest, I guess, we should take a court reporter break now. We'll come back, have that, and then we'll have the discussion amongst the Commission. COMMISSIONER HALL: Come back when? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So come back at 5 o'clock. Would that be -- Page 230 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 219 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What time? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- too long? All right. We'll go back at -- we're going to be back at five minutes to 5. (A recess was had from 4:43 p.m. to 4:55 p.m.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Please -- MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you will take your seats. Pardon me. We're starting the meeting, if you'll quiet down. Thank you. Mr. Wester. Am I saying that right -- is it Mr. Wester? MR. WESTER: Yes, correct. Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You have an opportunity now to rebut public comment. MR. WESTER: Okay. Should I wait for the other commissioners to join us or go ahead? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, we can get more done with just three of us. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's true. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Till it comes to the four vote. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, the four vote might be an issue. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That four-vote thing might be an issue. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we still have two other commissioners in the building. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I hope they didn't leave. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was unclear on the restart time. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, was it? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, it was. There was a lot of commotion going on when you called it. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, three was a quorum. There Page 231 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 220 are speakers, if anyone wants to know. So anything we say up here, we hear it in the hallway, we hear it in the bathroom. COMMISSIONER HALL: I can hear you. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We've got them in our office. We've got them in the bathroom. COMMISSIONER HALL: I was saying, "I'm right here." COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're listening all the time. MR. WESTER: All right. Great. Brad Wester, Driver, McAfee. I wanted to kind of go over a few points here. I'm not going to rebut everything that was said -- we might be here for another hour -- but what I will do is hit on a couple of key points, and then I'd also like to bring up my licensed traffic engineer to describe a couple of things specifically, and I've got a small PowerPoint to go along with that. Could we -- is there a way -- can I get this on the screen, please? Thank you. MR. MILLER: Sure. MR. WESTER: Thank you. Okay. To dovetail on what Mr. Bosi was describing about the contemplated uses in the PUD -- and we talk about compatibility. We talk about adjacency. We talk about the mixture of uses. This PUD, and on the screen shown here, is the list of permissible uses in the PUD as it sits. It should be noted that this was most recently revised in 2022, and nowhere in there was gas facilities struck from this -- the list of uses, department stores, whatever we want to call any of these listed uses that pertain to Costco specifically. Notices were sent out and the like. But this is the list we're dealing with today. This is one of the reasons that Costco's here. But in those permissible uses, you look at Item A, principal uses, in there, the first three are residential. So this commercial tract contemplates Page 232 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 221 residential as a bona fide integrated use into commercial, okay. So that -- the crux of the adjacency rule is really inherent to the integrated residential and commercial uses, not only on this property, but in the MPUD in total. We are not shoehorning this facility. And as described under testimony, we are under 50 percent of the adopted and approved commercial square footages. We talked about safety and rush to judgment and questioning the gas pumps and explosions. A lot of that is speculative. I stand by my substantial competent evidence as presented regarding Costco's gas operations and their compliance and their environmental standards. Again, if gas was determined to be an unacceptable use, it would have been contemplated for reducing that type of use or limiting the amount of gas pumps at any one specific use. There was a discussion about hospital access, the TIS, and then, of course, rush to judgment. We've been at this with these two matters for almost a year. If you include the pre-applications and early meetings and initial vetting with county staff, it's over a year. So to claim that this is a rush to judgment is erroneous. As you guys know, we did the NIM. We also were asked to be a part of the Planning Commission meetings as opposed to the HEX. We had two of those, and then we're here at the Board of County Commissioners' meetings. It's my understanding the Board of County Commissioners does not see a lot of PDIs. They don't see a lot of ASWs. So this has not been rushed. This has been thoroughly vetted. And as you see through the Planning department's recommendation of approval in their reports, in all of our substantial competent expert testimony, this has not been rushed to judgment. There's been an attack on procedural steps. I've been called a liar. I've been called sidestepping the rules and applying Page 233 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 222 misinformation. My entire world is based on facts, expert testimony that's substantial and competent, okay. I have adhered to all the rules as far as all the notifications. In fact, there was a discussion from the County about the last notifications that went out for this here meeting, and I explicitly said, "We need to send those out," because this was already advertised, it was publicly noticed, it was described in the Planning Commission meeting, and so that was -- went above and beyond. The signage, I was out there personally to watch the install and comply. We sent pictures. I sent a signed and notarized affidavit to staff, and they accepted it based on the signage. So to claim it should be anywhere else -- it is actually adhering to the code -- is erroneous. Rattlesnake Hammock, as we described, is built to accommodate the adopted square footage of the commercial and the overall dwelling unit count, and that includes the Costco use, okay. Land Development Code, we already addressed the criteria. There was one other person that described a lot of the criteria in the Land Development Code. That is what we're bound to. We're not bound to opinion or conjecture or clamoring. We're bound to specific criteria on whether the waiver has merits. And there was also folks trying to poke holes in the market study. There was a market study provided by an outside third party, and we stand by that competent evidence as submitted. The critical care concern for the hospital and the hours of operation, we talked about the number of gas, warehouse convenience. To claim that this is an oversized convenience store is just factually -- it's erroneous. And so to like this to the conventional convenience store with the gas across the street at 7-Eleven is inaccurate. There's an entire page of rebuttal that I will not get into because it was mostly just personal attacks. Page 234 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 223 Trucks, delivery trucks, refueling trucks will not use the loop road in the hospital. They will specifically use Rattlesnake Hammock and utilize the infrastructure that is built for them. Those vendors know how to -- those vendors know how to supply Costco both from deliveries at the warehouse and fueling on the basis that's needed to keep the tanks full. Costco is a -- it's a 40-acre site, generally speaking, for this activity center for all the commercial. Costco's only using 25 of that. And this site specifically is about 21 acres. So there's leftover property for an outparcel development for more commercial use, and then there's about 10 acres to the east of here that is also already zoned and entitled for commercial and office and professional uses. So to claim that this is the only thing going up that's retail and -- is inaccurate. I showed you the spreadsheet from the county staff itself describing the amount of uses that are currently built, the ones that are allocated, and then the remaining development rights. And it's been stated we're under 50 percent of the current allocation for retail commercial uses, and then there are a number of -- tens of thousands of commercial and office and professional uses allowed. And there's more residential that is apparently going to be coming online, because that is the number of allocated uses that's still out there. I wanted to talk about stormwater. Just like the 19 waivers that already exist in the Hacienda Lakes PUD, we're asking for six additional that are deemed insubstantial. They don't ask for any deviations or waivers for increases in floor area ratio, square footages, anything of that like, which would trigger a different set of review for any kind of major modifications or a full-blown rezoning to the PUD. This is not a zoning. It's an insubstantial change based on certain specific standards. The Costco does have a number of uses inside, so it is not just Page 235 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 224 one type of use. It is multiple uses with different business lines inside the store itself. There was a chemical engineer gentleman that came up and did a presentation all about drainage and flooding and stormwater and the like. We are not asking for any waivers or deviations to anything related to FAR or ISR, which is impervious surface ratios, or lot coverage that would trip anything that's required to have a waiver or deviation for stormwater. The stormwater's already master planned in Hacienda Lakes in the PUD. This request -- and we are in the permitting process right now, and this request complies with all local district -- and that's the Water Management District -- and state regulations for stormwater. To claim it’s exploiting is erroneous. The MPUD is master planned and permitted for stormwater, as I mentioned. The ERP, which is environmental resource permitting, has been modified six times, six times, all by the residential communities, to date. It was originally permitted in January 30th of 2012. Those six modifications were done by all of the residential communities. We are also modifying that because it is a requirement as part of your incremental development plan per phasing to modify. It's not a brand-new permit. It's a modification to the existing permit to account for the capacities and the treatment volumes in stormwater, and we're doing just that. And we just received our comments from the District, and none of those comments relate to anything that is -- that would be erroneous or on the basis that we are tripping any kind of thresholds to cause flooding. There's discussion about a variance for additional tanks. That's actually erroneous. There's no variance for additional tanks. There's no limitation on the number of fueling positions in the PUD. The Page 236 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 225 waiver is for a lot-to-lot distance criteria from roughly a one- to two-acre site at 7-Eleven to a 25-acre site at the Costco subject property. There was discussion of excessive traffic. The traffic is not excessive. The traffic is under -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'd please quiet down, we'll get through this. MR. WESTER: Thank you. The traffic is underneath the threshold, as testified, and I'm going to have my traffic engineer come up and describe that and more. Talked about -- talked about Costco lies, talked about gas prices. Gas prices are not part of the criteria for review. So anybody can create any kind of spin on gas prices that they want based on membership fees and aggregation of other things and sitting in queuing lanes. This was description of 90 percent of the traffic will be coming onto the site and use the westernmost entrance to the gas pod. That's inaccurate. There was a description that we're, quote, "In your neighborhood. Would you want this in your neighborhood?" This is a master planned mixed-use PUD. We are not in the backyards of the residences. Mr. Torres, thank you for your service, but he also claimed that the residents were there first. I refute that point because commercial was always planned for this site in an activity center that was adopted as part of the Growth Management Plan in 1989, okay. Then in 2011, the MPUD came for Hacienda Lakes. It's a fact, rooftops come first, then commercial, when things are actually getting built in the real-world environment. You don't put commercial there first. The commercial comes to support the residential neighborhoods and communities. That's a fact. It's irrefutable. Page 237 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 226 There is barriers between gas stations. Yes, there is. That's actually one of the criterias in the code for a waiver justification. It's a four-lane divided arterial with landscaping in the median and in the right-of-way and in addition to the landscaping that we're putting on our property as well. The DRI and the MPUD has very specific adopted thresholds for intensities and densities, and talk about incomplete infrastructure is erroneous. That infrastructure was built specifically based on phased approach for allocated development rights and uses, and that has met that criteria. What I'd like to do is read something into the record. This has already been sent to the County regarding the hospital. There's been a lot of conjecture, a lot of folks speaking for the hospital itself in talking about access and speculative things about injuring and killing people because the Costco's going to go here. "I understand there may be opinions on the impact of the Costco development next to the Physicians Regional, and we certainly hold the safety and convenience of our patients to the highest regard, but not everyone may be aware of the previous easement agreement and the attention and care we put into modifying that easement to protect the hospital's interests while also allowing for the development that would benefit the overall area." "Speaking on behalf of CHS" -- which is the owner of the hospital; they own 70 hospitals in 14 states including this one, Physicians Regional. "Speaking on behalf of the CHS and after speaking with hospital leadership, we believe the easement is acceptable and certainly relative to what was there before and other potential developments on that site, and we are not opposed to the planned Costco development. Please let us know if you receive any concerns or questions regarding the impact of the easement." This is from the vice president of real estate at Community Health Systems, Page 238 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 227 and this is also entered into the record. That access -- that joint-use access agreement was already existing. It was modified to accommodate this specific use and to the benefit of both parties, Hacienda Lakes, LLC, and its assigns and successors and the hospital itself, and that is recorded in the public records. What I'd like to do is call Mr. Ryan Cunningham. Please state your designation. He's a professional engineer and a registered safety professional, and I'd like to go through his presentation. If you give me a second, I want to queue that up. MR. CUNNINGHAM: Good afternoon. My name is Ryan Cunningham. I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of Florida and also certified road safety professional. I work with Kittleson & Associates, 225 East Robinson Street, Orlando, Florida 32801, and I'm the traffic consultant for Costco on this project. So I wanted to mention a couple of the things that were brought by Mr. Richardson first on the gas market study. He quoted a figure, the first highlight here. According to Costco TIS, a station with 24 fueling stations can accommodate a minimum of 400 cars per hour. That's based on Costco's unique service capacity and the way that they design their service stations. And so we've seen that in Costco's fuel stations around the country, and it was mentioned in the TIS to give an indication of, you know, what service capacity would look like, what queuing might look like on this site. It's not a minimum. It should be considered a maximum service capacity for Costco. The next point was that RaceTrac and 7-Eleven combined can accommodate 533 cars per hour assuming the same service capacity as Costco, and that just simply wouldn't happen. RaceTrac and 7-Eleven are not designed the same way to achieve that level of service as Costco does. Three things that I'll mention on that, one is the one-way Page 239 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 228 operation that Costco instills in its gas stations. You don't have that at RaceTrac or 7-Eleven; pump spacing, which allows three deep or four deep fueling for vehicles without having to wait for other vehicles to leave; and then no parking at the pump while you shop in the store. So this happens regularly at gas stations with convenience stores. It does not happen at Costco. So the next statement was that 16 hours per day times 533 cars, you know, equals some large number that could accommodate the future demand. Costco doesn't operate at full capacity all day long, you know, during its operating hours, and neither do RaceTrac or 7-Eleven. You can't expect the demand to just be consistent every hour of the day so that that service capacity hits that demand. We know that demand ebbs and flows. And so that's not a logical way to look at the total capacity of a gas station. So the logic here is flawed, and as a result, the conclusions after that that, you know, the market study is flawed, and existing supply could fulfill the future demand is incorrect. There was some mention of the 1409 threshold, and Brad mentioned this earlier. But, you know, this was related to Commitment 1 improvements, which basically was extending Rattlesnake Hammock Road from Collier Boulevard to the power line easement. And then after that got extended further down to where Azure is today, the full rights of the PUD are now in place. So the 1,409 p.m. peak-hour trip threshold was like a Phase 1 threshold. It's no longer relevant to what the PUD can actually develop. And I just want to mention on this slide where the addition of Costco plus retail plus the existing or committed residences exceeds 1409, you wouldn't actually include the retail in this because we're not proposing to build it in this phase. And in the traffic study that we're doing for the County as part of the Site Development Plan, specifically for concurrency, they want to see just Costco-only Page 240 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 229 numbers. For intersection operations, for access operations, they want the retail portion included so if and when this comes along later, the access that's been built for the site can accommodate that maximum development scenario. One other thing I'll mention is related to the hospital access. Brad spent some time on this already, but there was some indication that, you know, this would back up and cause issues for emergency access specifically. We have a 0.42-mile route, this ring road that goes from the signal at Collier Boulevard up to the south side of the Costco property. There's nothing at this entrance that's actually causing vehicles to back up from the Costco property into this ring road. So at 0.42 miles long, we don't anticipate traffic stacking up for almost half a mile along that ring road through the hospital property and back to the traffic signal on Collier Boulevard. There's nothing that would make that happen. Once you get on the hospital property, you can see that the ER route or the route to the ER is completely separated from the Costco route. What you have with the red lines are how you would get in from the north side or how you would get from the south side. And these are actually pavement markings, you know, on the lanes on Costco property, and those are two separate lanes. So that red one down here at the bottom and the blue one down here at the bottom are two separate lanes. So traffic turning right at this intersection and going to Costco is going to immediately be out of the way of anybody that would be going to the ER at this location. A couple other things I just wanted to hit on in rebuttal were related to some of the comments brought up. So No. 1, the TIS, the Traffic Impact Study that we're conducting is part of the SDP application. It's not part of what you're hearing today. But Page 241 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 230 obviously, it's informative to bring that traffic information to this hearing. As Brad mentioned, we are under the PUD cap. So the PUD cap is 3,328 p.m. peak-hour trips for the PUD. When you include traffic from Costco on top of the existing or committed land uses within the PUD, it's 1,992. So we're less than 60 percent of the cap for the PUD today. Another statement was made that the segment of Rattlesnake Hammock east of Collier's not built for this traffic. Well, the PUD study that was done put a four-lane divided arterial in there to handle this amount of traffic. So again, being under 60 percent of that cap, we were well under the capacity of a segment. When we have Costco in place -- and I think Brad mentioned this in his slides earlier -- at the buildout condition, Rattlesnake Hammock Road will be at 37 percent of its capacity with Costco in place. So plenty of capacity on this segment of Rattlesnake Hammock Road, a four-lane divided arterial Class 3. One other statement -- or a few statements related to just safety at the intersection. That's one of the reasons we wanted a traffic signal here, to make it a safe and efficient operation for vehicles coming through this area, going in and out of this property as well. And the approval that we received from the County on this stated, "The traffic signal deviation provides a greater public benefit and maintains or improves safety and operational performance for pedestrians, cyclists, and vehicles." And when we design and build this traffic signal, we will include all the features for pedestrians and bicyclists that are necessary to safely accommodate them at the intersection, including sidewalks, bike lanes, crosswalks, pedestrian signals. We'll also include Opticom, which will allow for emergency services to be detected on the way through and give them the green light as they're Page 242 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 231 needed to come through the intersection. So with that, I'd be glad to take any questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Wester, anything else before we go to the -- MR. WESTER: Yep, Brad Wester, Driver, Mc- -- In the interest of time, I'll turn it back to you for any questions and answers. I do have other representatives here if you have any questions that I can't answer directly. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll officially close the public hearing. Mr. -- Commissioner LoCastro, you're lit up first. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Sir, I'm going to ask you to come back to the podium. I'm going to ask you my first series of questions, and maybe my colleagues also have some. I'm glad you said something about rush to judgment, because I will tell you it was on my motion that we're sitting here, so my colleagues probably want to strangle me because, you know, when you said we probably don't hear a lot of these, we don't hear any of these. So this would all go to the HEX. And I think just the general public, in general, maybe is confused as to what we're approving here today and what we're not approving, but we're going to get into that in a minute. But I'm going to ask you a couple quick questions. But it was on my motion that had this go through such a thorough process, and it was the thousands of emails I answered to all these citizens, whether they liked my answers or not, sometimes I underlined stuff for -- to make a point when it's not being understood or agreed with. But having said that, it was said that all the people that are -- that are supportive of Costco, where are they? So I want to know from you, how many gas stations did you hear from that opposed Costco and said that, you know, you're going to take all their business? And, you know, I noticed none of them were here, but how Page 243 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 232 many letters did you get from 7-Eleven, RaceTrac, Wawa, Shell, any of the gas stations that are within a couple-mile radius or even a one-mile radius? MR. WESTER: Zero. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Three ingress -- egress and ingress points, are you -- you know, there was some confusion where a citizen or two said, "Oh, we don't know if they're going to abide by that" or -- can you just give a little bit more detail in where the -- I don't know what picture might show it the best, but I don't want anybody to leave here thinking you agreed to three but then it's going to be two and you're going to make some changes and that sort of thing. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. I will put a diagram up. And I'll start with the approved PUD, which shows and contemplates up to five different access points, including interconnectivity between the adjacent commercial. So the original DRI and PUD contemplated numerous interconnectivity and access points to all the various roadways. Our access points are going to be three. There were some that erroneously described that there was one access point under Rattlesnake Hammock, but that's actually not true. There's going to be three -- there's two on Rattlesnake Hammock and one to the hospital property. And as described and shown in the record, the hospital agrees with that, and they actually are part of that vetting process for that access easement. That access easement is actually an easement that it can be utilized from Rattlesnake Hammock all the way through the loop road. And keep in mind, that loop road is not going to be built just for Costco. It's already existing. It's already serving other elements in that -- in that hospital community, other buildings, other uses. And so we've got two, as shown on this diagram. This is a colored, Page 244 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 233 rendered version of our PUD plan or our Site Development Plan, which is being reviewed right now. So we don't anticipate adding any other access points for the Costco use. The gas use, you see it. We've got a -- as shown on here, we have one traffic light location, which is the furthest to the east, and then we've got the one right-in, right-out, which is the furthest to the west, and then the one access point which is per the modified access agreement with the hospital. So three total at this point. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Why do you think the hospital is so supportive; because you're going to feed their emergency room, and you're going to send more business to the hospital? And I say that a little bit sarcastically because I'm going to tell you what I know the answer to be, because I was the COO of that hospital. But you tell me why you think the hospital is so supportive of Costco. MR. WESTER: Well, I believe Costco is -- runs a first-rate use in terms of their operations and their function, the cleanliness of the facility. They aren't 24/7. And by way of having access through the property, it actually gives the hospital access to the hospital itself. So it's -- you can see it, and it's basically another route to the hospital itself. But the Costco has always been a good neighbor in communities that they reside, and that's a fact. From the cleanliness of the interior of the store to the way they keep the outside in the cart corrals, it's a first-rate organization. They have a very high standard. And I -- I'll close with this is not a -- these aren't requests about use or permissibility by right. The gas facility and the warehouse store are allowed by right. It's an orientation thing. And you can -- we talked about the FP&L easement and also the other elements of this property. Costco knows how to design and lay out from the type of circulation and safety that's best suited for their Page 245 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 234 members and the community. And so I would like to hear more about the thoughts on the hospital itself, but clearly, interconnectivity and access from various other routes benefits the hospital, in my opinion, and also their employees can utilize Costco as needed before or after their shifts. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. That's the answer that you think. I'm going to tell you what the hospital's real answer is after I ask this other question. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So if we approve this right now, do bulldozers show up tomorrow and you start building immediately, or is there something called a Site Development Plan that you're currently working on? Because we're not approving, yes or no, you start construction tomorrow, correct? MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So why don't you educate the masses and walk us through. And I'm going to have county staff come up here as well, because it was sort of glossed over where everybody thinks we're -- we're approving your construction equipment to come tomorrow. So give us an overview. We already know the answer, but for the record, if it was approved now, the steps you still have to go through before the lawsuit, if it was approved, especially with the Site Development Plan. What's entailed with that? MR. WESTER: Well, we are running a parallel course with our site development permitting right now and -- so that includes the Water Management District, the stormwater ERP permitting. Wetlands are already permitted and mitigated. But we are -- we still have comments with the County. And so I would say that it's at least 45 to 60 days to wrap up all of those comments with the County to kind of finalize the SDP and then, of course, get the Water Page 246 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 235 Management District approval for the latest revision or modification to that stormwater ERP. I would -- I would believe it would be -- for a lot of the uses, the first thing that has to be approved is the erosion control plan and the sediment -- the MPDS controls, silt fencing and the like and then clearing. So there's different stages for development. But I would say, at the earliest, it would be -- it could be later this year or the first of quarter one of 2026. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But that's if you met all those requirements. MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We're not here to decide stormwater and erosion and all those things. MR. WESTER: This is not a permit to construct. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And I only bring that up because I know how hard Jaime Cook -- and I'm going to bring her up here at some point. I know how hard her and her team has worked. So I will say the scientist that came up here and talked about, you know, water and all of that, great, great presentation. Like somebody said, maybe one of the smartest guys in the room. But the reality is, we haven't ignored any of that. You haven't even had a chance to address any of that. And my guess would be that when you hear from the Southwest Florida Water Management District, which you already have heard from them, and you know what the requirements are, you wouldn't be standing here if you didn't think you could meet water runoff requirements; is that a fair statement? MR. WESTER: That's an accurate statement. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. MR. WESTER: One of the reasons Costco chose this site is because it's master planned. It not only has its development rights Page 247 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 236 and entitlements, but it's already master planned for stormwater. We're doing an incremental adjustment or modification just like the six other times that all the residential communities did for their phases, and we're going through that process right now. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So lastly, I'll just say -- MR. WESTER: So we still need shovel-ready permits. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- the reason why you got that letter from CHS is because the hospital and the company that owns them and owns 70 other hospitals knows that if Costco walks away tomorrow, that a Super Target could go in that same footprint except it would be twice the size, and it wouldn't be members only. It would be open to every single person. And that may sound great, but then -- MR. SPOKOJNY: It wouldn't have a gas station. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- but then I have a feeling all the traffic numbers and the congestion and the cars and everything -- so just having known how that hospital sort of thinks, I think they know the -- you know, when people say that's the worst thing that can go in the footprint, I think all of us could think of 10 worst things. We have a list of 90 things, and there are some things on there. But that would be, you know, my educated guess is that something much larger could go there, and it wouldn't meet -- there wouldn't be any public comment because with no gas stations they would apply for permits, and they would start construction immediately in most cases, so -- MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't have any more questions for you. I'll call up county staff for a few things when the time is appropriate. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And maybe I'll -- my question -- one of my questions, minimumly, has to do with staff, so Page 248 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 237 I'll get to that in a second. Brad, in the event that the project is approved, talk to me about the second streetlight, because it was represented to me outside that -- where that second streetlight wasn't part of your original presentation. Did that come up from somewhere? MR. WESTER: The streetlight on Rattlesnake Hammock, yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. MR. WESTER: We -- the traffic control signal was approved last week by county staff. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MR. WESTER: And it has always been contemplated. It really helps the circulation and safety and -- for the area roadways. And so that was approved last week by county staff, and it's an administrative code approval, and -- but that's always been contemplated. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me. I didn't mean to talk over you. Terri gets mad at me when I speak too quickly. Is there a median cut there on Rattlesnake Hammock to allow for ingress and egress from the property to the north as well? MR. WESTER: Yes, there is. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So it is a -- basically signaling that intersection for better control of -- MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- ingress and egress? MR. WESTER: Yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. In regard to the infamous gas station, is there an alternative power source for that facility? MR. WESTER: Yes. We have -- I'm glad you brought that up. We have generators for the store and the gas facility. So if there's a power outage, they still function. And this still provides the Page 249 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 238 opportunity for -- if there's a named storm or hurricane evacuation or the needs to supply, this could serve all the communities and the neighbors, including gas. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There we go. I was asking -- that's one of the things I wanted -- because I know that we had adjusted our code shortly after I became the commissioner to require the additional power -- outlet for power sources to come, but I was wondering if Costco actually had their own alternative power sources. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. And that alternate power sources also acts for emergency use as well. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was just going to say, in the event of an emergency -- MR. WESTER: Right. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- is it exclusive, then, to members only -- MR. WESTER: Yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- for access to that fuel? Say there was a hurricane and we lost power, would Costco -- does -- has Costco ever opened up to the GP? MR. WESTER: I don't know that answer, but typically this would be open for members, to benefit the members. But the fact that there is redundancy protocol in place for power outages is key for this from a business continuity and service to the members. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And then my -- my other point I wanted to make/discuss, just looking at this site plan, you know, we -- I heard earlier in the conversations about an elephant in the room. There's four-some-odd acres up here on the corner of 951 and Rattlesnake Hammock, and it looks to me on the site plan that there are contemplated access points for interconnectivity to that site through yours; is that correct? Page 250 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 239 MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So that would then -- because I would then presume, because of the size/shape that the -- if I recall, the PUD allows plus/minus 350,000 square feet -- MR. WESTER: That's correct, roughly, yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- of commercial -- MR. WESTER: Yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- over and above the other office and uses that are contemplated in the rear. And so access off of 951 -- I call it 951. It's -- everybody -- it's Collier Boulevard to those of you who are new. But those access -- additional access points will be coming into that front piece than isn't part of your development at this particular stage. MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay, very good. You -- that's all I have for you. MR. WESTER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Wester, I did have one or two questions, and, Commissioner LoCastro, did you have something? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I was going to call somebody else over, but if anybody's got anything for Mr. Wester -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have a couple questions for -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- this is the time. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- questions for Mr. Wester. During the public comment, there was some discussion concerning the trail system bike paths area, and someone said that the area where you're parking vehicles, the overflow or the larger parking area, I believe that was part of the FPL easement. Does that interfere with the bike trails? I'm not sure if you're the right person to answer that, but has that issue been brought up? MR. WESTER: We've not -- the bike trails and the FP&L Page 251 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 240 easement has not been brought up, but there is already an access through that that will remain as part of that. FP&L requires access that is completely separate from any Costco use on that, and that's reflected in this diagram. I would imagine that if there's any trail system, any multiuse trail, there's adequate room over there to accommodate that. There's 175- -- 170-foot-wide easement in that area, and we do not use all of it for our parking. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're going to be in the site planning process, so I'd just like to make sure that there's not an interference if there is a trail there. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's see. In terms of the number of pumps, is there any flexibility in the number of pumps? I know you're at 24. Is that kind of a magic number, or is that your maximum, or is there some potential for there to be fewer pumps? I think someone said at the other location off Airport Road and -- that there are 12 pumps there. I'm not sure if I got that number right, but this is substantially larger. MR. WESTER: It is larger, and we plan for expansion in the future. So the accommodating factor in this is the gas pod itself is already planned to accommodate expansion on the fuel facility based on future demand. We would have to come back in for another Site Development Plan permit. So any approval of these requests here or the current Site Development Plan for this, what you're seeing, does not include any of the gas expansion. That has to be reviewed later on by County. But we do have an expansion plan in place based on this. We have 24 fueling positions, and it could go up to 40, and that is for long-range planning. That is not the current plan right now. But for long range, we would not impede -- all of our traffic Page 252 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 241 circulation, our traffic flow, ingress, egress safety measures all account for that expansion to that max scenario, and there's no limitation in the PUD for number of pumps. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I understand there's no limitation in the PUD in the number of stations. We do have the ordinance that requires the separation. Obviously, there's a variance application for that -- or deviation from that. I'm wondering, as a condition -- and this is, I guess, would be a question for the County. As a condition of approval of that separation, would we be in a position to provide the maximum number of pumps that can go in there? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So again, I'll just raise the question. I had no idea you were talking about going up to 40 pumps. My thought was that maybe 24 wasn't necessarily a magic number, that you had to have that many. I'm wondering if I would want to support a situation where you could get up to 40 pumps. So my instinct at this point, just having heard that, is that I would put -- to get my vote on the separation issue, there would have to be a maximum number going forward that -- I think 40 there would be -- would be too many. MR. WESTER: Yeah. The market demand supports the numbers that we're asking for. And in that 40, and in the long range -- so we don't have to ask for -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How many are there in the other facility? The one -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I ask for clarity? MR. WESTER: Twelve pumps; 12 fueling positions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There's 12 at the other Costco, and you're looking to have as many as 40 at this one. Commissioner Kowal had a -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I ask a clarifying question? Page 253 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 242 Because I'm kind of confused here. Do you -- when you say "pumps," one pump will service two vehicles. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So if you have 12 pumps, that's 24 -- MR. WESTER: Fueling positions, yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- pumping stations/positions. So right now, you're at 12 pumps. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But 24 cars can eventually fuel on either side? MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So you're not having -- so when you say "40," are you saying 20 pumps? MR. WESTER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So going from 12 to 20 pumps? MR. WESTER: That's all it is is eight more pumps. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Eight more pumps. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. I just wanted to see if that makes sense. MR. WESTER: And that's all the traffic circulation, the traffic impacts, the thresholds are all met based on the expansion of that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Let me deal with the number of cars then. At the other facility right now, you can service 24 cars with your 12 pumps. If this is approved today, you would have 24 pumps, so you would service 48 cars? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, it's still 12 pumps. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So I think you're -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's what I was trying to clarify. Page 254 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 243 MR. WESTER: Yeah. I think you're commingling the number of fueling positions versus actual number of pumps. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Well, let's deal with number of pumps. That will clarify. That's very helpful. Because if we're talking about 20 pumps versus 40 pumps, that's a big difference. So right now you have 12 pumps, 24 cars. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: At the new facility, you're looking at, again, 12 pumps, 24 cars? MR. WESTER: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's your opening. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. And the difference is is the expansion opportunity based on demand, up to 40 fueling positions, so that's 20 pumps. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Twenty you go to 20 pumps and 40 cars? MR. WESTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Eight more. MR. WESTER: My traffic engineer, Ryan Cunningham, would like to add something. MR. CUNNINGHAM: So the existing site has eight pumps, 16 vehicles, right? So we're proposing 12, 24. I just wanted to note that Costco -- the Costco gas program has grown significantly in the past couple of decades. When Costco first started introducing gas on their sites, they were building these smaller stations. So if you go to some really old sites that haven't been updated or expanded, you'll see eight pumps. You'll see six pumps. And usually those sites are experiencing massive queuing and congestion issues because they can't service the demand that they have on site. Being a member-based organization, they have, like, a capture Page 255 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 244 area, and when people come and do a warehouse shop, they also want to get gas. And so what you're seeing is it's oversaturated at these older sites. Costco has been going around the country and doing gas expansion projects on existing sites. So 24 is really the minimum that they're building these days. Oftentimes, they're building 32. And there are some sites, Davie, Florida, is one of them, where they are expanding to 40 to meet the demand that's there. And it really eliminates the queuing issue by just serving the demand much faster. It's like if the restaurant opened a bunch more tables and servers, all of a sudden you wouldn't have to wait to get, you know, your food anymore. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, I get gas at Costco, but I go during hours where there's generally not that many cars in the queue. But, I don't know, the 20 pumps just sounded like a lot. It was definitely a lot when I thought it was 40 pumps, but -- MR. WESTER: It's not 40 pumps, sir. No. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I enter -- unless you're finished. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, then, just for -- I'm not sure that I would ask this, but just in case that I do move in that direction, Mr. Klatzkow, would we be in a position to require -- if they're going to be doing 12 pumps initially, would we be in a position to have it come back before us if there's going to be an increase in the number of pumps? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, it would have to. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, that's a good -- would it have to if -- or can we make that as a condition? MR. KLATZKOW: You can make that a condition. If you Page 256 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 245 want to hear it, you should make it a condition. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If we don't make it as a condition, then they have to come back to us? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So either way, they have to come back. MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. But rather than going through the HEX, it would go through you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. So I just want to make something clear. And, you know, we always say -- Commissioner Saunders always reminds us that words matter. Demand wouldn't decide if you get to increase pumps. We would, okay. So it might be part of your master plan that, you know, oh, at all of our Costcos, we add more pumps. I'm glad to hear that you'd have to come -- you'd either have to go to the HEX -- and if we heard you wanted to increase the amount of pumps and we all thought it was not the best idea to have one person -- a one-person attorney hear the growth. But make no mistake that never say in this room that "depending on demand would depend on us increasing the pumps." That's why we're here. So you -- first thing I would want to see is that if this gets approved, the amount of pumps that you're, you know, planning for initially, we're going to be watching that traffic, we're going to be watching that safety, we're going to see if the stoplight works and all those things like that. And we make plenty of adjustments to projects that are built that, in the end, maybe something was a little bit off or there can be an improvement with an extra turning lane or something like that. But it won't -- it won't be the driving force if you could sell more gas. It will be important to us if your footprint can support. So I'm Page 257 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 246 glad to hear that regardless of if we -- you know, if we did approve this now, you're limited to the amount of pumps that we're approving right now. Anything above and beyond -- it would be the same thing if you wanted to put a second story on top of Costco; that's a whole 'nother meeting, either the HEX or if we decide to pull it forward here. So I just -- you know, I just want to make it clear, the market -- and then comparing it to other places -- maybe Davies [sic] has a thousand pumps. I don't know what that footprint looks like. Maybe they have 10,000 acres and there's no gas stations for 50 miles. Only focus on Collier County and this footprint here, because that's what we're doing. So it's not a -- the precedent of other Costcos and what your master plan drives doesn't drive our decision here, so... CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So I think what I'd like to suggest is that when we get to the point of making a motion, if there is a motion to approve the separation issue, I'm going to want to add to that to increase the number of pumps from 12 to 20 would require coming back to the County Commission for approval in some -- in some mechanism. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I would say anything above 12 would have to come back to us, you know. But according to the attorney, if we didn't add that in, it would -- well, what your clarification is, Jeff, it wouldn't have to come back to us. It would go to the HEX unless we decided different, like we did this time; is that what you're saying? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, okay. MR. WESTER: So Brad Wester. If I can ask for a point of clarification. Knowing that the fuel pumps are allowed by right, regardless of the type or quantity, this is specifically because we're within the 500-foot ring, is that right? And we would ask for an ASR Page 258 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 247 for an expansion opportunity, is that right, in the future? A follow-up ASW, is that what I'm hearing -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. MR. WESTER: -- mechanism? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. MR. WESTER: Okay. For an expansion of the -- the expansion from 12 to 20. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: To any number above that, you'd have to come back. MR. WESTER: Yes, sir, or any number above that. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And then you'd have to prove -- you know, we would want to see the traffic study from your current pumps. We would want to see the flow and all that to see that any number you wanted to go above what was initially approved -- MR. WESTER: We accept that. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- was doable. MR. WESTER: We're confident in providing that to you guys. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You just -- you were leaning a little too far forward. I just wanted to pull you back that you guys don't -- it's not the market that drives the size. It's the County. MR. WESTER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: This question I actually have -- I hope somebody in our staff or somebody -- maybe the County Attorney. This ordinance, I was told -- I mean, this came way before my time here, and I think probably half us here. It was put in place by a Board of County Commissioners. And the rumor I heard -- because I never really got clarity on it -- was that they were concerned because when the county was expanding and you had, like -- we were going to add two more exits to I-75, like, the 105, that they wanted to protect these exits so they didn't have gas station on Page 259 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 248 top of gas station on top of gas station, you know, just sitting right on top of each other and clutter -- you know, these exits looking like, you know, you're getting off of a big truck stop somewhere, and that, you know, there's no state statute that controls this. This was a local thing that the -- that the Board before us did it for whatever reason they did it, but that was a rumor I heard that -- why they had to -- MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. In 1998, the Board of County Commissioners adopted the ASW requirement, the 500-foot requirement, and it was specifically for the condition on Pine Ridge Road near the I-75 interchange, a number of gas stations were being developed there. And they were concerned about the impact and flow, the ingress and egress onto Pine Ridge Road and be able to maintain that volume of traffic and safety concerns. That's why this 500-foot separation was put -- was put in place. That's why the first criteria that says, if there is a divider, if there is some sort of separation between the two gas stations, it's a check in favor of the proposal. In this case, they've got a divided highway. The access from 7-Eleven and the access into Costco is divided physically. There's no way for that -- that traffic to interact with each other. So because of that, that's one of the criteria that's been established, and that -- but it was -- 1998 was the reason -- was when they adopted this 500-foot separation. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you. COMMISSIONER HALL: I am going to make motion to approve this separation of 500 feet, the waiver, with the adder of any addition of 12 pumps has to come back to the BCC. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a Page 260 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 249 second. Any further discussion on the motion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. COMMISSIONER HALL: And with that, I will make a motion to approve the insubstantial change to the PUD. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Just before we do that, I just wanted to call a couple of county staff up so we can get a few things on the record, because down the road it might be important to have all this stuff documented. I don't think it will take too much. If -- Chairman, if I can have your indulgence. I'd like Ms. Cook to come forward. You know, she was accused of a few things and also quoted and misquoted. And I just wanted to briefly talk about when they move forward, if we approve today, with the Site Development Plan -- separate rumor from fact on water retention and that, you know, we don't ignore it. We know that there's millions of gallons that have to go in a certain direction. But, Ms. Cook, can you just give us just a little bit of an education so we can get it on the record as to what would have to go forward if we approve this, and then also, somebody quoted you, and I can see you in the back sort of shaking your head, and so I wanted to give you a chance to go on the record and get your quotes correct. MS. COOK: Yeah. It's Jaime Cook, director of Development Review at Growth Management. Page 261 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 250 So to address that, during the Planning Commission meeting, the Planning Commission got into discussions on the Transportation Impact Statement, the operational analysis asking questions about the stoplight as well as turning movements and things like that. And what I apologized for was not knowing which development was Esplanade and which one was Azure when I was speaking to the Planning Commission. So I think that was the miscommunication there. As far as the Site Development Plan, if you were to approve both of these items today, they will move forward with their Site Development Plan. It is currently on the second review. There are still some outstanding comments, so they will be -- there will be at least one more review. Stormwater and, again, the operational portion of the transportation, turning lanes, stoplights, stop signs, et cetera, are all reviewed during the Site Development Plan. They are not reviewed at the zoning level. Both the -- this area of the county is a highly regulated water -- water system, and they are subject to a very stringent discharge rate. They will have to meet that discharge rate both with the County reviewers as well as the South Florida Water Management District with their ERP. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So stormwater's not being ignored by this developer? MS. COOK: Not at all. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. But it hasn't been addressed fully yet because it's the next steps, correct? MS. COOK: Correct. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. And then just for the record, I wanted to call up Tony. He's our director of -- division director of Traffic Operations. So a lot of people made a lot of comments about traffic studies and this or that with a lot of guesswork. This is -- this is a person that's not employed by Costco. Page 262 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 251 He's probably one of the smartest and, you know, most eloquent and informed senior directors that we have here in the County, as well as respected. So I don't think he cares if Costco goes in or not. I can tell you he doesn't. But, Tony, give us the short version about the stoplight, because we had a few people say, "Stoplight, what happened?" Explain how that's been part of the process and what happened just last week. And then my follow-up question -- and I won't ask it, but if you would answer it -- is are you satisfied with the traffic studies, the traffic counts, and all the things that you do for a living for the County? So stoplight and the traffic study. MR. KHAWAJA: Yes. For the record, Anthony Khawaja, director of Traffic Operations and Planning. You know, we have an approved ordinance for access, and one of the conditions is to provide signals at locations. The issue with providing a signal at the Costco entrance, the proposed Costco entrance, was a little -- was closer than what we normally would allow. Normally the distance for a roadway like Rattlesnake Hammock, when they applied it was under the old ordinance which permit them to have a signal at a quarter-of-a-mile spacing. Their driveway is at a thousand-foot spacing. These conditions we put in place so we can provide a traffic signal that can operate safely and allow for the movement of traffic without interference with other signals that are in the area, especially if we have to coordinate them and provide progression between traffic signal. This was a unique spot. So we have a committee, a group -- a panel that consists of four professional engineers with the Collier County, two planners, and somebody from the Sheriff's Department that discuss if this signal is a good location to have. And, you know, it goes under Trinity's, of course, review to allow the signal or not, if -- depending on how the panel decides. Page 263 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 252 So we take traffic signals and adding of traffic signals very seriously. We don't want to put a signal somewhere that's going to be reduced capacity, mess up traffic flow, not be able to coordinate it and make it work properly. This is a unique location, of course. You know, Rattlesnake Hammock is -- right now it's a dead-end, you know, but it is a very wide roadway. It's a four-lane roadway. Actually, I don't know if I can -- do you have -- I thought while I'm talking to you, you guys can take a look at that intersection, how it's operating, because that's that approach -- that's that approach right now as we speak. There's -- there is -- the capacity of that intersection is not fully utilized. There's plenty of capacity at that approach that we can utilize. Like I said, the distance for -- it's only a thousand feet, but we looked at -- we looked at how it would accommodate pedestrians, how it would -- you know, we had Costco do what they called an intersection evaluation study, an IES, and in the evaluation study, they looked at what type of intersections or controls can be -- could work at this intersection. And, you know, they eliminated a lot of the ones, you know, keeping the stop sign, you know, for, you know, two-way stop, put a roundabout there or a traffic signal. You know, if you end up with the stop signs, it just does not work. It will fail, and it would not operate properly. They looked at the roundabout. The roundabout, in terms of capacity, it would work, but it would have to be a multilane roundabout, which is -- in Collier County, we're still debating where those belong, so we're still trying to get our people -- a traffic signal, however, it gives us the best solution, and it would operate at Level of Service A, which means hardly no -- no queuing or no -- the way it would be, less than 10 seconds -- Page 264 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 253 COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And, Tony, who pays for that light? MR. KHAWAJA: That would be part of the development. The developer would pay for the light -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So Costco pays? MR. KHAWAJA: -- and the installation. And we'd have to connect it to that signal at Collier Boulevard so it can be coordinated and we can see it if we need to. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But the taxpayers in Collier County and our budget wouldn't pay a penny. MR. KHAWAJA: Will not pay, absolutely. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's Costco that pays for it, correct? MR. KHAWAJA: Yes. So it's the best solution for the conditions that we have. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. How about the traffic study that you've done analysis on? Are you -- are you content that it has -- doesn't have holes? And I know a lot of people that live in this area would disagree and think, "Man, that intersection must be at max capacity," but the reality -- and we work this every day -- is that to people who are new arrivals here don't realize what these roads can hold. It doesn't mean we love it. But are you content with the traffic study? Do you feel like it's been thorough? And what can you tell us? MR. KHAWAJA: It's still under review, Commissioner. So the capacity on -- the capacity and the intersection are still under review; have not totally approve it. We're still looking at also their entrance. We are concerned about their entrance coming out of the gas station. We're thinking that should be a right-in only, no right-out. We don't want people to make a right-out and then make a U-turn at the traffic signal, so we're Page 265 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 254 still working with Costco. These are some of the comments we made for them. And we are still fine-tuning the capacity and -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But that's nothing for us to decide on the two things? MR. KHAWAJA: No, it's nothing that you guys need to look at. We make sure it works properly. We make sure that the volume -- the volume's definitely going to work. It's not an issue. And the signal will work properly. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Lastly, have you gotten any complaints from any of the -- I know you work closely with the local gas stations as you work traffic and things like that. Has anything come to your inbox from any of the competitors who are upset with the addition of some possible more gas being sold to Costco members? MR. KHAWAJA: No, not yet. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. MR. KHAWAJA: Yeah. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Where are we? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second now? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Do we have a motion on 9A? COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion on the motion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. Page 266 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 255 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. We have two items left. Item #11D RECOMMENDATION TO HEAR A PRESENTATION ON FUNDING STRATEGIES FOR A STORMWATER CAPITAL, OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE PROGRAM. (TRINITY SCOTT, DEPARTMENT HEAD - TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT) – MOTION TO CONTINUE TO NEXT BCC MEETING BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I'm going to recommend that we continue the stormwater item to the next meeting and discuss it then. It requires more time probably than we want to dedicate to it at 5:55 at night, and it's been a long day. But we do have to return to Item 11C, which was -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's hang on just a second, because we haven't continued the other one that you just suggested. MS. PATTERSON: Oh, yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So any objection to continuing that? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I make -- you want a motion to do that? Page 267 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 256 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go ahead and have a motion to continue it just -- MS. PATTERSON: That is Item 11D, just for reference. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll move to continue that to our next meeting. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, I'll second. COMMISSIONER HALL: Amen. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's 11D. MS. PATTERSON: It's stormwater, yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and second. I'd like to amend that to continue it to the first meeting in September of 2027. All right. We have motion and second to continue to next meeting. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, then that brings us back to Item 11C, which we had postponed till the end of the meeting. And I see that we have Cormac -- and we have Mr. Davies and Cormac back here for that, to pick back up. Just a reminder, this is regarding the verification letter for the Florida Housing Finance Corporation's funding. MR. DAVIES: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Welcome back. MR. DAVIES: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, evening, Commissioners. Page 268 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 257 We had the opportunity to speak with your County Attorney. Thank you for that suggestion, Mr. Chairman. Candidly, I think we're at an "agree to disagree" posture on how to read that language. My client and I don't think you're bound by signing the form. I certainly respect Mr. Klatzkow's position on that. And so we did -- we did have that meeting. You know, trying to come up with language or an editing of that state-promulgated form is just going to bounce the application. So, unfortunately, that piece is not going to work. What we thought through during our time on the other items that you were hearing is potentially reducing that number. Perhaps there's a number that is less than the 120 that we're asking for that you-all would be comfortable with as far as using that statute to allow Mr. Bosi to sign the form. So there is a reduced number that I wanted to share with you. I'm also open to any other suggestions for trying to take the first step with this project. I do feel obligated to correct the record. I mean, I just want to say -- and I appreciate Commissioner Kowal's comments at the end of the last time we were up here. I mean, we have been working on this for months, as you-all know, with the County. But for the public's benefit, you know, there were some public commenters that took a different position to that. We filed a zoning verification letter on this property under the Live Local Act. We got that back. We appealed that. That appeal is pending. But we did not pursue that appeal because we worked long and hard with your staff on trying to find a different solution rather than pursuing that appeal. And like I said at the beginning of my remarks earlier, we're really appreciative of your staff's efforts with that because it required thinking outside of the box, especially given the financing deadline that's upon us. Page 269 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 258 And so what -- you know, what we worked on with your staff is -- is how this item evolved and came before you today, which was to, you know, get your direction to get a vote of this Board to authorize Mr. Bosi to sign that document. There was no -- there was no intent or interest in trying to have Mr. Bosi make a false statement. The statute and a vote today from you-all is what would allow him to affirm the statement requested on the 120 units or some other -- some other number that perhaps you're more comfortable with so that you can be comfortable authorizing him to sign that form. This is also a case-by-case basis situation. There wouldn't be some sort of precedent created. I mean, the form -- I understand and appreciate and want you-all to be comfortable with authorizing him to sign the form and that the statement on the form is -- is a correct statement. So that's what we want as well. Yes, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, it's getting a little bit late so -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What's the number, right? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's exactly right. So I really appreciate you sharpening your pencil here a little bit. And where are you leaning? Let's get to kind of the bottom line here, because we're all getting a little weary. MR. DAVIES: Understood. We talked about 100. We talked about 105. I mean, every unit that we reduce it is one less unit that we can provide and one less unit that makes us competitive in this financing process. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How many units would you have gotten Live Local? MR. DAVIES: Well, that's where there's a disagreement. I think the County's position's 25, and our position's 91. Page 270 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 259 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Per acre. MR. DAVIES: Per acre. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Per acre. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, per acre. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Can I ask -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Two things. Under the -- under our County Attorney's opinion with regard to this, if we put -- if we allow anything other than the 25 per acre, it's putting Mr. Bosi in a precarious position because it's by right. It gives him that density. Am I correct in that assumption? MR. KLATZKOW: If you decide on a certain density, that will be the density. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. So if we go anything above 25 units an acre, at your thought processes of 100, 105, that's putting him outside the bounds of the current zoning regulations that we have in place. MR. KLATZKOW: Oh, no. You could approve this project at a reduced number of units, and then Mr. Bosi could sign the certification. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So the thought -- the thought process I had was, how about -- can we add "up to 120" in the application? That would, then, allow him to sign the letter, not perjure himself. Financing comes through. We go through all the other circumstances that are prevalent. And if it's determined that 80 is the happy number, that's the -- that's the path. But we're approving up to 120, not anything specific nor -- nor -- I mean, I understand your interpretation is that that's the cap in the first place, but if we actually -- because -- and, again, we're obligated to rely upon our County Attorney's opinion on these things, not yours. And if we had Page 271 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 260 that language in there "up to 120," would that cover? MR. KLATZKOW: If you say "up to 120," the number's 120. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. We need to come up with a maximum number -- MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- that we're willing to accept. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And correct me if I'm wrong, but if our staff's telling us that we've established a limit of 25 units an acre under the Live Local Act -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, that's a by-right, that 25. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. So if we put anything above that -- MR. GIBLIN: Yeah. Cormac Giblin, for the record. There are differing paragraphs within the statute. Paragraph 6 is what they're asking for. There is no 25-per-acre limit. There is no limit at all other than what you might feel appropriate. Paragraph 7 is the Live Local paragraph that establishes it at 25 for projects based on the county's maximum densities. So there's two different paragraphs within the same statute. It's not apples to apples there. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And it's how many acres, 2.1; is that -- MR. GIBLIN: 2.1 -- 2.16 acres, yeah. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, I don't think Commissioner McDaniel's done. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I wasn't. I guess -- because the conversation came up with the unit -- the request of 120 units, it was putting Mr. Bosi in a position of perjuring himself because we don't have anything currently in our zoning regulation that establishes that. Page 272 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 261 MR. GIBLIN: I think that -- I think that -- well, the statute -- what you decide through use of that paragraph in the statute would set the density. I think what Mike was referencing was saying yes now in the certification but with a caveat. That's where the -- and I think the County Attorney has opined to agree with that. MR. KLATZKOW: I agree with that. It would be like a motion for X number of units and, you know, rezoning accordingly. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, here's the rub. If we leave 120 on there and you apply for State money, it's for that 120. If in the end, after talking with us and planning the project, it was anything less than 120, I think -- I believe, by law, you'd have to go back to the State and say, "You gave us X number of dollars for 120 units. The County now, after hearing the whole plan and the traffic studies and all the things that are required, aren't comfortable with 120, so the number's going to be less," I don't think you can keep that total amount because the algorithm was probably based on 120. I mean, I think that's the whole argument here, correct? MR. DAVIES: Yes. And we'd have -- we'd have to go back to the State and deal with that, and that's at our risk. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, I'm just going to say, personally, I think this is a great project. I think we do have plenty of outs that puts your money in jeopardy, because I think when the details come to us, there's all kinds of things that we could hate about the project when we really get the presentation on the 120 units, and then if you don't -- if you don't like it or you disagree or we disapprove it, then you've got to give the money back. And maybe you've got a bunch of money invested but, you know, the initial -- the initial plan that I saw, I didn't think 120 was excessive. My only part of about being a little bit sort of on the fence is we're agreeing to 120, and we really -- alls we have is one piece of paper. You know, I'm used to having 10 different people come here, Page 273 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 262 just like with Costco, and explain what the project looks like and all the details and all of that. But I think when that happened, there's plenty of outs for us to say, "Wow, now that we have some of the details, I've got, like, 10 different concerns about this project." And then if it means that the project evaporates and you have to give the money back, that's part of the risk of being a developer. But, you know, I'm not sitting here saying that 120 was a showstopper. And I think even a couple of us, we were just looking to see if there was latitude, you know, so that we weren't -- we weren't married to it regardless, and we're not, because we could always down the road say, "We've got more details; we've got a problem with it." And then -- you know, then the onus is on you having to give part of the money or all of the money back, but that's always a risk. But initially the project I saw in my office, I wasn't like, "Oh, God, you know, I think it should be 60." I mean, you know, Commissioner Kowal would know more. I'm sure he got a lot more details on this because it's in his district, but the details I got, I think -- you know, I don't want to keep you from not moving forward to try to apply to get the money. Hey, you might not get it, and this is all moot, but I support allowing you guys to move forward. And if 120 is what has to be on the form, then that's -- you know, I'm okay with it unless I hear something from my colleagues that I'm missing. I think we're almost peeling back the onion a little too much, but I'm glad we are because we've got to -- it's not our signature on there. It's Mr. Bosi's, but I don't think we're making him sign something that -- that, you know, makes him a liar or anything like that. MR. KLATZKOW: If you say 120, it's 120. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. Page 274 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 263 And this is -- listen, face value when I saw this project, you know, guys, I was like, this is -- we need something like this close in. I mean, it is what it is. This is not too often -- and it saddens me a little bit when we have a few city officials here, and they're also clamoring about we have no -- they wanted to purchase the old apartments at the end of Fifth Ave South -- or North, and they didn't have the money because they wanted to create something within their boundaries that they could do something similar like this, but then when it came time to -- there might be an option to do it, you know, they kind of poopoo'd it and don't want it. You know, it's almost like a NIMBY, you know, we were talking for the last four hours. You know, do it further in the county, not as close to the city. And the sad part is, the City, by right, is a 35 units per acre, from what I understand. So they actually have a greater number per acre by right on the Live Local. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The Live Local. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. So what's hurting this whole project is just the footprint. I mean, over and over again. It's a great project, but we're trying to shoehorn something on there. And I don't want -- and like I told you in the hallway, I mean, Mr. Klatzkow's our attorney of record. He's the attorney for the County. He guides us in what we do. And if he's interpreting that -- and I don't want to go against his interpretation because it's a good feeling. I -- I just don't think that there's a magic number for us to set some sort of precedence here today that now that -- as long as somebody comes with two acres, we're going to say, you know what, fill out one of these forms, go to the State, try to get the money, and, you know, you can have whatever, 35, 38, 40 units per acre. It kind of circumvents all the work our staff does to set precedence on these properties and what we do allow. So it's just -- it's a slippery slope. You hear the old saying, "It's Page 275 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 264 a slippery slope." And I think at this stage of the game, I'm saddened that we had to get to this point, but it was an option. It was, like, who caught an option playing the huddle? You know, it was like you went one way and it didn't work out because the interpretation initially with the Live Local and now how the staff looking at it -- you know, it just didn't work out. In your mind you were thinking it would work out, and it was a lot of time wasted coming to this point. And I think Mr. Cormac and when you guys -- when you were at the Affordable Housing Committee meeting, you know, he pulled you guys aside -- or pulled you aside and said, "Hey, you know, there's other options. There's other statutes we can visit," but that was a -- again, that's rolling the dice. It's not a guarantee. And I had this conversation on the phone. I was getting informed what the attorney's feelings were early in the morning, and he kind of sounded like -- exactly what he told me -- what he's saying now is what he said at the beginning of the day. And then I got a phone call later in the day saying, "Well, no, there wasn't going to be no issue of perjury or anything because we can always adjust it." But now we're here in front of everybody in the 11th hour, and I'm hearing the same thing back from the beginning, which I was not comfortable with. I would never ask Mr. Bosi to sign anything that may come back on him. And I have to, you know, take my advice from our -- the County Attorney on this issue. And this is not what I thought the result would be today, but that's kind of my position. I don't want to set precedence, and I don't want to create a slippery slope that binds us on some sort of issue down the road. MR. DAVIES: I certainly appreciate the comments, Commissioner. If I may respond quickly. Page 276 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 265 I don't think you're setting any sort of precedent with this. Each of these would be case by case, and ultimately -- you know, Mr. Klatzkow and I may agree to disagree on whether or not you're bound by this, by the 120 or some other lower number. If you are bound by this -- let's accept Mr. Klatzkow's advice there, certainly -- you can approve that additional density under the -- under the statute without creating a precedent based just on this site and this being the right location for this. And again, we've got to come back before you, but if you put that aside, this is something that I think I would just urge you-all to think closely about as far as is this the right property to create an exception for that? It's interior to the county, like you said. You've got 30,000 jobs you could walk to, or certainly opportunities for walkability. We've got really good AMI levels, not just the 80 percent that you're used to hearing about. We've got 22 percent. Some of these units would rent for $467 a month. That's unheard of, right? We can't do that without the State financing. But we're asking you for that additional density on this site based on those factors without creating a precedent for other sites and to do that so that -- not so that we can get this across the finish line this evening, but so that you can help us get to the starting line. And a no vote on this kills the project, kills the financing, and kills those levels at a really good site with the county -- within the county. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you. So just for some clarity, we've got the state statute section, what -- is it 125 -- MR. DAVIES: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- that we have -- to me we have leeway on our density approvals with that versus Live Local that we've established 25 units per acre. Page 277 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 266 MR. KLATZKOW: Correct. COMMISSIONER HALL: They're not going Live Local. They're going -- they're going regular. So I don't -- I don't understand if we certify a letter that allows them to go ask for financing how that's -- how that's congrewed (phonetic) to where we are approving a certain amount of units. MR. KLATZKOW: Because the form says it's 120 units. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what the form says. The form says -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And this is not the process or the time for that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: "I certify that the City has vested in me." So that's the -- that's the only thing is it's -- COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So if we -- doesn't it say something about if it's that number -- equal to that number or higher, they can ask for financing? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Number of units in the development, 120. This number must be equal to or greater than the number of units stated by the applicant -- in the application. I don't know what that means. MR. DAVIES: It's a max number. MS. PATTERSON: It creates the max number. So the number on their application has to be 120 or less. That's the max -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It doesn't say that. It says "or greater." MS. PATTERSON: No. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's the minimum number. MS. PATTERSON: No. It's like a weird reversed language. If you read it again, it's -- the number in that -- in that statement -- or in that box has to be equal to or greater than what they're stating on their application. So they can put anything up to 120 on their application Page 278 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 267 but it can't be greater than 120. A hundred and twenty's the max. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So I guess -- I guess it's the difference between these -- all of the certifications letters that Bosi has signed before, is that because we already have an agreed density? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. He's always signed these things after the Board's approved them. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So, really, if that certification letter binds us to the number of units on that application, there's no choice that we have besides to deny that unless we can come up with something that's agreeable. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's exactly what I was going to suggest. There's got to be a number here. I think the 120 -- you know, even when we met, I thought that the 120 was high. I like this project, but I just -- I was having a hard time getting my arms around 120 units. You just mentioned that something like 100 might work, but that's -- you know, that's still a big number, but it's just not quite as shocking as the 120. But is there -- is there a number of units that we would all feel comfortable with just saying, "Okay, we can build, you know, X number of units on that parcel; that's the vested number"? Is there a number lower than 120 that will work? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I ask one more question? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, sure. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The parcel -- the tip of the triangle -- this piece of property is just mind-boggling, because the tip of the triangle is governed by the City of Naples. COMMISSIONER HALL: Which tip? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The tip that's on our side. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: To the east. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We control the side on the City's side, and they control the side on the County's side. Now, that's all Page 279 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 268 going to be part of the purchase, right? MR. DAVIES: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But because that's going to stay green space, are you saying because it's governed by the City of Naples that we can't use that footprint to add to the actual acreage? MR. DAVIES: Yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Even though you're going to own it, it's going to be part of your basic invisible footprint -- I mean, there's not going to be a border there -- is there a way around that to where the City can just give us a letter saying, "Hey, you can govern that portion"? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I thought the City -- I thought the City owned that parcel. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, no. The bank owns it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay. So you're going to be buying the 2.1 acres, plus you're buying the other part? MR. DAVIES: So there's 2.16 acres. That's the County property that we're under contract to purchase. That's what the calculations on density units per acre are based on. There's a .61-acre parcel away from Goodlette, okay, that is also under contract. That is zoned in the city, and that's not part of our request today. That would remain green space for that, so at least the plan -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out a way that we can use that as the footprint, because nobody else is going to go there. You're going to own it. It's going to be -- and that would add the size of the dot, and then maybe 35 is the magic number. Maybe -- you know, I'm saying, then, that's an easier pill to swallow that trying to shoehorn it just on this two-point whatever. MR. DAVIES: Right. And then there's another parcel that -- where the office building sits that's two and a half acres approximately. That's not -- we're not under contract to purchase Page 280 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 269 that. That is owned by the same group that our seller is owned from, so -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I was told that's not considered an activity center, so you couldn't slide that as part of the footprint? I don't know. I mean, I was just -- that was just Monday morning lawyering I was thinking about. MR. DAVIES: We're not under contract to purchase that one -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know you're not. MR. DAVIES: -- so we're only here to talk to you about the ones that we're under contract to purchase. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Are there fuel pumps associated with this? MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if the parcel was being considered as one parcel, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know. That's what I'm trying to get to, but I'm trying to find a magic number if the tip -- the part that's not going to be developed. MR. FRENCH: So that would take you to about 92.4 units total with the addition of that triangular tip with a dedication from -- either by way of title -- recorded in their title that it could not be developed and it would be dedicated to green space. Because it's outside of the jurisdiction -- jurisdictional boundary of Collier County, we would not consider that even within our Site Development Plan. Now, they may consider it within their ERP for stormwater and things like that, but that -- we would not review that, and we could probably make it contingent on the SDP. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's why I said this is a very unique project. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm going to -- and I'm Page 281 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 270 just -- you know, when I -- when we talked about the "up to 120," Mr. Klatzkow said, "If you make it up to 120, it's 120." I didn't understand that. If it's up to 120, he applies for 120, and if we, through all of the wizardry, decide it's 92 or 80 or whatever, then that's what it is. "Up to" is not the number. It can be the number, ultimately, but "up to" gives us that discretion to go to that. It allows him to apply for that. And then he goes through all of the hoops to be able to come back to whatever we do. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The certification doesn't say "up to," though. The certification says "the number is." That's the problem. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. But if we added in "up to" -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We can't. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We can't do that because it's a state form. You know, we can't change their form. They're not going to get the funding if it's changed. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I gotcha. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we just need to either approve this at 120 or at another number or not. That's -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask one more simple question? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If we did approve it at 120 and he didn't get his financing, does the property owner have our certification of 120? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's a question for Jeff. It sounds like it. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I don't think so. I think it's contingent on -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, that's really a legal question. Page 282 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 271 COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's a good question. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Or Cormac might know it, too. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are we bequeathing density with this? MR. KLATZKOW: I don't think you're locked into 120 at that point in time because this is a very deal -- this is specific to this deal. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. MR. GIBLIN: And specific to the conditions that you're willing to approve it under, be it the income thresholds, the height, the zoning restrictions that they've agreed to. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. So in the interest of moving it forward and seeing if we can -- we can -- I could maybe be the catalyst, we've got a great project needed in this community, the developer -- everything that I've seen on paper -- these are some of the best people who are involved in this, okay. In my opinion, I think that we'd be stupid, you know, to walk away from this. And we're sitting here going, well, would a hundred, you know, 120 or whatnot. I think, you know, no decision will please everybody. We just found that out with 12 hours of Costco discussion. I make a motion that we leave 120 on there. We allow you to go forward to the money -- for the money. That remains to be seen if you get it. You come back here, and there's all kinds of gyrations and things you'll have to go through. There's always a risk that in part of the presentation we may not like the answers on traffic or this or that. But having said that, everything that I saw looked like you guys had sharpened your pencils. You know, no disrespect to the County Attorney, but he's Page 283 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 272 supposed to make sure we don't do anything illegal, immoral, or unethical, but he's not the sixth commissioner. And I think on this particular project -- and I've even heard from other people, you know, out -- at the County and the City and people who also think it's a great project, I just think we'd be foolish to walk away from this project because we think -- I don't think 120 is even -- is excessive. I think with the people you have involved, you're going to make it work and fit on there beautifully, and it's going to be a great addition. And so I might not -- I might be the minority here, but I make a motion that we approve it with 120, we allow you to move forward, and, you know, we continue to see what happens with the process. I'll just throw that out there and see if I've got any support for that motion. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Would you be okay with 105? Because they said 105. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Sure. Yeah. I just think we shouldn't just say -- COMMISSIONER HALL: I can support 105. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. So I'll change my motion and say we'll make it 105 to show that we, you know, sharpened our pencil a little bit more to be -- you know, to be more supportive of, you know, all the moving parts. But I'll make a motion at 105. Cormac. MR. GIBLIN: Just one caveat. If you start changing -- and 105, no problem. But just realize that the income split may need to be adjusted to equal 105 instead of 120. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Do we really think -- I mean -- and I appreciate Commissioner Hall chiming in. You know, at least we try to put some meat on the bone here. Do we really think Page 284 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 273 15 units is a showstopper? Are we really accomplishing anything by going from 120 to 105? I mean, a lot of times in this room we shave something in half. I mean, we just had a Costco guy that wanted to put in 40 gas pumps, and we just spanked him for that and educated him how the process works. But, you know, I'm still comfortable with 120. To get other commissioners to feel more comfortable, especially Commissioner Kowal, because this is in his district, and he'll get a lot of questions on it, I want to see what he was comfortable with, and sometimes even just making a small change with a few numbers shows that at least we -- you know, we tried to find common ground in the middle. I'm comfortable with 120, but if it doesn't get the votes, then I'm also supportive of adjusting the number. Do we need just a majority or supermajority? I didn't look at my -- MR. KLATZKOW: Super. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We need super, okay. So you need four votes. So I'll say 120. Commissioner Hall chimed in with 105. He'd be supportive of 105. What do the other commissioners -- how do they feel? I need four votes for you to do anything. (No response.) COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So I'll make a motion at 120. Do I have a second at 120? I feel like an auctioneer here. Do I have a second at 120? (No response.) COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I don't. I'll amend that and make a motion at 105. Do I have a second at 105? COMMISSIONER HALL: Second. I'll second that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second. And I understand your comment, Commissioner LoCastro, that, Page 285 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 274 you know, we're trimming something, and is 15 units really that much of a difference. I don't know if it really is. It sounds like an awful lot when you start talking about 120 units. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It depends on the price of the -- forgive me. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I understand. But anyway, you have a motion and second. Any discussion on the motion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I will call for the question. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. MR. GIBLIN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, Mr. Bosi, you can sign that form at 105 units. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No gas pumps. MR. DAVIES: No gas pumps. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Commissioners. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything else, Ms. Patterson, on the agenda? MS. PATTERSON: No, sir, unless anybody that wants to provide public comment that -- on general topics. Apparently not. No. All right. That brings us to Item 15, staff and commission general communications. I will say I have nothing. Page 286 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 275 County Attorney. MR. KLATZKOW: As well as I. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Kowal, do you have anything to add before we adjourn? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I've got about 25 things I want to talk about. No. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Send it to the HEX. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That was a long day. I've got a long drive ahead of me tonight, so -- I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Nothing. Thank you, gentlemen. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well -- and just one quick topic. How do you feel about giving direction to staff to bring back the review of that arbitrary 500-foot spatial differential for gas stations for us to maybe eliminate that? COMMISSIONER HALL: I think that would save three hours of our time. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Three? It started at one. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So directed. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It was, yeah, five hours. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was -- but -- let's -- that's my only comment. I'd like staff to review that and for us to bring it back. And that -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. French has indicated a thumbs up. I don't have any issue with bringing it back for discussion. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Carry on. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll just say thank you to my colleagues for the time that you took on Costco. No decision pleases Page 287 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 276 everybody, and I'm sure, you know, especially me, will get all kinds of spears and rocks and everything. But, you know, the comment that was made, "If people were supportive of Costco, where are they?" I would just say check your inbox. I would say it -- I didn't take a poll or keep score, but there were plenty of supporters. And we also don't vote on a popularity contest. So we look at the law. We look at, you know, are there 10 things we would have preferred on that piece of property? Yeah, possibly, but Costco comes forward, and nothing's illegal, immoral, or unethical. And I will tell you that, you know, my inbox is already starting to explode, and it's from people that are thanking us for our due diligence and our hard work and think we made the right decision. So thanks very much. I'm sure we're adjourned. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have nothing to add as well, and we are adjourned. ***** ***Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner Hall and carried that the following items under the consent and summary agendas be approved and/or adopted*** Item #16A1 ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, TO INCREASE THE FLOOR AREA RATIO FROM 0.45 TO 0.60 FOR GROUP HOUSING, PL20250005043 Item #16A2 ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, AN Page 288 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 277 ORDINANCE AMENDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, ON PROCEDURAL CHANGES TO RECTIFY AND CORRECT INCONSISTENCIES AND UPDATE ADVISORY BOARDS OR AGENCY’S PUBLIC HEARING REVIEWS FOR MULTIPLE LAND USE PETITIONS HELD BY THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL, HEARING EXAMINER, PLANNING COMMISSION, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, OR BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, PL202540000180 Item #16A3 ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, TO ESTABLISH FORMAL PROCEDURES AND STANDARDS FOR REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION REQUESTS SUBMITTED BY CERTIFIED RECOVERY RESIDENCES IN COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 397.487, FLORIDA STATUTES, PL20250009062 Item #16A4 FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR COMMUNITY SCHOOL OF NAPLES – CAMPUS EXPANSION, PL20250006342 - FINAL INSPECTION FOUND THESE FACILITIES SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE BY STAFF ON AUGUST 5, 2025 Item #16A5 FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A Page 289 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 278 PORTION OF THE WATER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR CAR CONDO, PL20250007500 - FINAL INSPECTION FOUND THESE FACILITIES SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE BY STAFF ON AUGUST 6, 2025 Item #16A6 FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR ST. PAUL CHURCH, PL20250003206 - FINAL INSPECTION FOUND THESE FACILITIES SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE BY STAFF ON SEPTEMBER 9, 2024 Item #16A7 RESOLUTION 2025-195: RESOLUTION FOR FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS, INCLUDING THE DEDICATION OF TRACT “R- 2”, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF ISLES OF COLLIER PRESERVE PHASE 16, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20210000695, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $444,004.28 Item #16A8 RESOLUTION 2025-196: RESOLUTION FOR FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF FAIRGROVE AT Page 290 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 279 TALIS PARK MULTI-FAMILY PARCEL, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20220000389 (FP) AND APPLICATION NUMBER PL2022000598 (FAIRGROVE COACH HOMES SDP), AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $$37,447.85 Item #16A9 RESOLUTION 2025-197: RESOLUTION FOR FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF MAPLE RIDGE AT AVE MARIA, PHASE 6C, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20200001634, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITIES IN THE AMOUNT OF $251,993.89 Item #16A10 RESOLUTION 2025-198: RESOLUTION FOR FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF RANCH AT ORANGE BLOSSOM, PHASE 4, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20190000864, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $507,486.40 Item #16A11 RESOLUTION 2025-199: HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING TO Page 291 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 280 CONSIDER VACATING A PORTION OF KON TIKI DRIVE AS SHOWN ON THE PLAT OF ISLES OF CAPRI BUSINESS SECTION, RECORDED IN PLAT BOOK 3, PAGE 52, OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 40 FEET EAST OF CAPRI BOULEVARD, (GRIFFIS HIGHWAY PER PLAT) IN SECTION 32, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA Item #16A12 RESOLUTION 2025-200: RESOLUTION TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER VACATING A PORTION OF OIL WELL PARK ROAD, ALSO KNOWN AS A PORTION OF A 100- FOOT-WIDE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND EASEMENT DESCRIBED AS TRACT A, AS RECORDED IN DEED BOOK 23, PAGE 42, OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, LOCATED WEST OF STATE ROAD 29, APPROXIMATELY 1.5 MILES SOUTH OF OIL WELL ROAD, IN SECTION 20, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 30 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. VAC-PL20250006144 Item 16A13 RESOLUTION 2025-201: HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER VACATING THE 30-FOOT-WIDE PUBLIC ROADWAY EASEMENTS AS DESCRIBED IN OFFICIAL RECORD BOOK 1033, AT PAGES 1087, 1098, 1099, 1103, 1107, 1122, AND 1126, OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 4,900 FEET NORTHEASTERLY OF U.S. 41, TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST AND Page 292 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 281 APPROXIMATELY 4,000 FEET EAST OF GREENWAY ROAD IN SECTION 7, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 27 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA Item #16A14 THE CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A PERFORMANCE BOND IN THE AMOUNT OF $690,732, WHICH WAS POSTED AS A GUARANTY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER PL20230015778 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH SANDY LANE ASSEMBLAGE Item #16A15 RECEIVE AND APPROVE THE 2024 COLLIER COUNTY REPETITIVE LOSS AREA ANALYSIS (RLAA) STUDY Item #16A16 AWARD INVITATION TO BID 25-8361, “FENCING INSTALLATION AND REPAIR SERVICES FOR COLLIER COUNTY,” TO PRIMARY AND SECONDARY VENDORS - ATLAS DOOR & GATE INC., AND MCFARLANE’S CONSTRUCTION, INC., AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENTS Item #16A17 ACCEPT A $4,000 DONATION FROM NAPLES ELKS LODGE 2010 FOR ENRICHMENT TOYS TO THE DOMESTIC ANIMAL Page 293 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 282 SERVICES DONATION TRUST FUND Item #16A18 RESOLUTION 2025-202: RESOLUTION SUPERSEDING RESOLUTION NO. 2018-106, AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES (DAS) FEE POLICY, AS IT RELATES TO THE AUTHORITY OF THE DIRECTOR OF DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES AND REFLECTING THE OPERATING COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH ANIMAL-RELATED BUSINESSES AND BREEDERS, WITH AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF NOVEMBER 1, 2025 Item #16B1 AWARD OF INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 24-8281, “IMMOKALEE CITY SIDEWALKS AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS (LAP),” TO COASTAL CONCRETE PRODUCTS, LLC, D/B/A COASTAL SITE DEVELOPMENT, IN THE AMOUNT OF $435,172.25, APPROVE AN OWNER’S ALLOWANCE OF $50,000, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT. (PROJECT NO. 33902, FUND 1841) Item #16B2 APPROPRIATE AN ADDITIONAL $573,993 TO THE COLLIER METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATIONS ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET FOR FY 2025/26 AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT. (FUND 1841, PROJECT NO. 33908) Page 294 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 283 Item #16B3 REINSTATE AGREEMENT NO. 21-7896, EMERGENCY/DISASTER RELATED STABILIZATION AND RECOVERY SERVICES FOR ROADWAY SIGNS, WITH SOUTHERN SIGNAL AND LIGHTING, INC., RATIFY THE FIRST AMENDMENT EFFECTIVE AS OF THE DATE OF ITS ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL, AND APPROVE A SECOND AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT RETROACTIVE TO SEPTEMBER 14, 2025, BY EXERCISING THE SECOND RENEWAL TERM THROUGH SEPTEMBER 13, 2026, WITH A 5% RATE INCREASE Item #16C1 THE REVISED PAGES TO GRANT AGREEMENT L0019 WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION FOR THE PALM RIVER PUBLIC UTILITIES RENEWAL PROJECT AREAS 3, 5, & 6. (PROJECT NO. 70257, FUND 4016 AND PROJECT NO. 60234, FUND 1841) Item #16C2 THE REVISED PAGES TO GRANT AGREEMENT L0018 WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION FOR THE NAPLES PARK PUBLIC UTILITIES RENEWAL PROJECT 103RD/104TH AVENUES. (PROJECT NO. 70120, FUND 4016 AND PROJECT NO. 60139, FUND 1841) Item #16C3 Page 295 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 284 AN INCREASE IN EXPENDITURES FOR THE SINGLE SOURCE PURCHASES OF ODOR CONTROL PRODUCTS AND SERVICES FROM EVOQUA WATER TECHNOLOGIES LLC, AND APPROVE THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 24-032-NS, "ODOR CONTROL PRODUCTS AND SERVICES," BY INCREASING THE AUTHORIZED ANNUAL ESTIMATED EXPENDITURES UNDER THE AGREEMENT BY $1,720,000 FOR A NOT-TO -EXCEED AMOUNT OF $4,220,000 PER FISCAL YEAR, REMOVING AND ADDING ITEMS TO THE AGREEMENT, PROVIDE CLARIFICATION LANGUAGE REGARDING ADDITIONAL ITEMS AND POSSIBLE TARIFF REIMBURSEMENTS, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AMENDMENT Item #16C4 AWARD REQUEST FOR QUOTE UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 20- 7800 TO QUALITY ENTERPRISES USA, INC., FOR THE REHABILITATION OF PUMP STATION 308.06 PROJECT, IN THE AMOUNT OF $685,819, APPROVE AN OWNER’S ALLOWANCE OF $105,000, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED WORK ORDER. (PROJECT NO. 70141) Item #16C5 THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE DOCUMENTS NECESSARY FOR THE CONVEYANCE OF A UTILITY EASEMENT AND WARRANTY DEED AND BILL OF SALE TO THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT FOR POTABLE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE ON COUNTY-OWNED PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE RESOURCE RECOVERY BUSINESS PARK Page 296 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 285 (“RRBP”), AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED $200 Item #16D1 TWO (2) MORTGAGE SATISFACTIONS FOR THE HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT NEIGHBORHOOD STABILIZATION PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $60,360 FOR THOSE PROPERTIES THAT HAVE MET THEIR FEDERAL AFFORDABILITY REQUIREMENT. (URBAN IMPROVEMENT GRANT FUND 1805) Item #16D2 SIX (6) MORTGAGE SATISFACTIONS FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP LOAN PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $162,500. (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053) Item #16D3 TWO (2) MORTGAGE SATISFACTIONS FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP LOAN PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $33,000 DUE TO THE DEATH OF THE BORROWER(S). (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053) Item #16D4 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT SUBRECIPIENT GRANT AGREEMENT #CD25-01 BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND BIG CYPRESS HOUSING CORPORATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $750,000 TO FUND THE Page 297 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 286 BIG CYPRESS – MAIN STREET VILLAGE ROOFING REHAB PROJECT. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835) Item #16D5 THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT SUBRECIPIENT GRANT AGREEMENT #CD25-02 BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND COLLIER HEALTH SERVICES, INC., DBA HEALTHCARE NETWORK, IN THE AMOUNT OF $290,000 TO FUND THE MARION E. FETHER MEDICAL CENTER HVAC REPLACEMENT PROJECT. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835) Item #16D6 THE CHAIR TO SIGN THREE U.S. HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD) COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) SUBRECIPIENT GRANT AGREEMENTS BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND THE FOLLOWING ENTITIES TO SUPPORT PUBLIC SERVICE ACTIVITIES: (1) SUNRISE COMMUNITY OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC. ($59,588.10); (2) HOUSING DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION OF SW FLORIDA, INC., D/B/A HELP ($125,000.00); AND (3) BAKER SENIOR CENTER NAPLES, INC. ($117,000.00). (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835) Item #16D7 THE EMERGENCY SOLUTIONS GRANT SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT #ES25-01 BETWEEN THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE SHELTER FOR ABUSED WOMEN & CHILDREN, INC., TO SUPPORT Page 298 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 287 SHELTER OPERATIONS AND PERSONNEL SALARIES IN THE AMOUNT OF $65,000. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835 PROJECT NO. 33949) Item #16D8 BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECOGNIZE $126,907.07 IN PROGRAM INCOME FROM OVERNIGHT AND INVESTMENT INTEREST FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM FISCAL YEAR 2024-2025 (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053) Item #16D9 RESOLUTION 2025-203: RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING APPROVAL OF A SUBSTANTIAL AMENDMENT TO COLLIER COUNTY'S U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD) ANNUAL ACTION PLANS FOR PROGRAM YEARS (PY) 2023-2024 AND 2025-2026 TO REALLOCATE $329,706 FROM PY2023 AND $927,369.85 FROM PY2025 IN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) FUNDS TO COLLIER COUNTY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY IN THE BAYSHORE GATEWAY TRIANGLE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA (BGTCRA) FOR A LAND ACQUISITION ACTIVITY TO ALIGN WITH TIMELY EXPENDITURES AND AUTHORIZE THE SUBMISSION OF THE SUBSTANTIAL AMENDMENT TO HUD. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835) Item #16E1 Page 299 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 288 ROUTINE AND CUSTOMARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD BUDGET IN THE AMOUNT OF $11,666,503.67 FOR APPROVED OPEN PURCHASE ORDERS INTO FY 2026 Item #16E2 ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR THE TRADE-IN DISPOSAL OF PROPERTY THAT IS NO LONGER VIABLE AND REMOVE CAPITAL ASSETS FROM THE COUNTY’S CAPITAL ASSETS RECORDS Item #16E3 ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR THE DISPOSAL OF PROPERTY THAT IS NO LONGER VIABLE AND REMOVE CAPITAL ASSETS FROM THE COUNTY’S CAPITAL ASSETS RECORDS Item #16E4 REPORT FOR THE SALE OF 7 ITEMS AND DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $18,175 ASSOCIATED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD ON FEBRUARY 28 AND MARCH 1, 2025 Item #16E5 REPORT FOR THE SALE OF 37 ITEMS AND DISBURSEMENT Page 300 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 289 OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $131,900 ASSOCIATED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD ON JUNE 20 AND 21, 2025 Item #16E6 REPORT FOR THE SALE OF 61 ITEMS AND DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,093,845 ASSOCIATED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD ON APRIL 25 AND 26, 2025 Item #16E7 REPORT FOR THE SALE OF 18 ITEMS AND DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $67,580 ASSOCIATED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD ON AUGUST 22 AND 23, 2025 Item #16E8 PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION’S ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT IDENTIFYING UNACCOUNTED-FOR CAPITAL ASSETS WITH REMAINING NET BOOK VALUES OF $39,161.15 (FY23), $3,366.56 (FY24), AND $2,137.26 (FY25), AND AUTHORIZE REMOVAL OF THESE ASSETS FROM THE COUNTY’S CAPITAL ASSET RECORDS IN ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA STATUTES CHAPTER 274 AND CMA 5809 Item #16E9 REPORT PREPARED BY THE PROCUREMENT SERVICES Page 301 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 290 DIVISION FOR VARIOUS COUNTY DIVISIONS’ AFTER-THE- FACT PURCHASES REQUIRING BOARD APPROVAL IN ACCORDANCE WITH PROCUREMENT ORDINANCE NO. 2025-34, AND THE PROCUREMENT MANUAL IN THE AMOUNT OF $107,500.51, AND AN EMERGENCY PURCHASE IN THE AMOUNT OF $48,000 Item #16E10 EXPENDITURES THROUGH THE EXEMPTION FROM THE COMPETITIVE PROCESS TO PROVIDE SOFTWARE PRODUCTS FOR THE COUNTY’S LEARNING, DEVELOPMENT AND PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT PROCESSES, APPROVE THE FIFTH AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NO. 16-6621 WITH CORNERSTONE ONDEMAND, INC., FOR FIVE YEARS, THAT INCLUDES FOR THE FIRST YEAR AN AMOUNT OF $159,875.09 AND SUBSEQUENT ANNUAL PRICE INCREASES IN THE AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED 2.5%, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AMENDMENT Item #16E11 SEVENTH AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 20-045-NS PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGEMENT SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH NAVITUS HEALTH SOLUTIONS, LLC, EXTENDING THE AGREEMENT FOR AN ADDITIONAL YEAR THROUGH DECEMBER 31, 2026, RESULTING IN AN ESTIMATED SAVINGS OF $67,000, AND TO INCORPORATE THE BIOSIMILAR PROGRAM INTO THE AGREEMENT, RESULTING IN ADDITIONAL ESTIMATED SAVINGS OF Page 302 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 291 $1,680,000 Item #16F1 AWARD INVITATION FOR QUALIFICATION NO. 24-8312, “ROOF REPLACEMENT CONTRACTORS,” TO CROWTHER ROOFING AND SHEET METAL OF FLORIDA, INC., ADVANCED ROOFING, INC., CLAYTON CONTRACTING OF SWFL, LLC, ATLAS APEX ROOFING, LLC, AND ADVANCED ROOFING & SHEETMETAL, LLC, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENTS Item #16F2 AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL NO. 25-8350, “MEDICAL DIRECTOR AND DEPUTY MEDICAL DIRECTOR,” TO JAMES AUGUSTINE AS MEDICAL DIRECTOR AND S. SANDOVAL, MD, LLC AS DEPUTY MEDICAL DIRECTOR, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENTS Item #16F3 FIFTH AMENDMENT TO THE RADIO TOWER LEASE AGREEMENT 787-C WITH CROWN CASTLE GT COMPANY LLC, ALLOWING FOR THE INSTALLATION OF AN ADDITIONAL MICROWAVE DISH ON A COMMUNICATIONS TOWER LOCATED AT 1899 TRADE CENTER WAY Item #16F4 Page 303 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 292 EXTENSION AND FIFTH AMENDMENT TO THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND THE CITY OF NAPLES, GOVERNING THE USE OF CITY OF NAPLES BEACH PARKING FACILITIES AND PARK AND RECREATION PROGRAMS, TO SEPTEMBER 30, 2027 Item #16F5 1) AN AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF PAY APPLICATION 1 IN THE AMOUNT OF $92,604 DUE TO AN ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR IN THE COMPENSATION METHOD FOR TASKS 5, 6, 9, 10, 12, AND 13 OF THE PINECREST LAKE 2-3 RESTORATION PROJECT UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 20-7800, “UNDERGROUND CONTRACTOR SERVICES,” WITH DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC., 2) RATIFY ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 FOR USE OF OWNER’S ALLOWANCE IN THE NET AMOUNT OF $8,942, AND 3) APPROVE AN AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF FUTURE PAY APPLICATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 DUE TO ITEMIZED TIME AND MATERIAL PROPOSAL NOT PROVIDED AT THE TIME OF WORK DIRECTIVE APPROVAL Item #16F6 RESOLUTION 2025-204: RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS, CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2025-26 ADOPTED BUDGET Item #16F7 Page 304 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 293 RESOLUTION 2025-205: RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING RESERVES) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2025-26 ADOPTED BUDGET Item #16G1 THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, ACTING AS THE COLLIER COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY, APPROVE A FIRST AMENDMENT TO COLLIER COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY LEASEHOLD AGREEMENT FOR HANGAR CONSTRUCTION WITH IMM DEVELOPMENT LLC, RELATED TO ITS CONSTRUCTION OF MULTIPLE AIRCRAFT HANGARS AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE AMENDMENT Item #16I1 MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE OCTOBER 14, 2025 Page 305 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 294 Item #16J1 THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE AMOUNT OF $128,048,280.72 WERE DRAWN FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN SEPTEMBER 11, 2025, AND OCTOBER 1, 2025, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06 Item #16J2 THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF OCTOBER 8, 2025 Item #16K1 RESOLUTION 2025-206: REAPPOINT TWO MEMBERS OF THE GOLDEN GATE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE – REAPPOINT FLORENCE HOLMES AND PATRICIA SPENCER TO A FOUR-YEAR TERM EXPIRING ON OCTOBER 6, 2029 Item #16K2 RESOLUTION 2025-207: APPOINT DON ROMOSER AND RECLASSIFY RONALD FOWLE AND SAM SAAD ON THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD – THREE-YEAR TERM EXPIRING ON MAY 22, 2028 Page 306 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 295 Item #16K3 RESOLUTION 2025-208: REAPPOINT THREE MEMBERS TO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE – REAPPOINTING JENNIFER FARON, STEPHEN HRUBY, AND TODD LYON TO A THREE-YEAR TERM EXPIRING ON OCTOBER 1, 2028 Item #16K4 RESOLUTION 2025-209: REAPPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE COLLIER COUNTY CITIZEN CORPS – REAPPOINTING WALTER JASKIEWICZ AND REGINALD BUXTON TO A FOUR- YEAR TERM EXPIRING NOVEMBER 5, 2029 Item #16K5 RESOLUTION 2025-210: APPOINT DANNY MILLER TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE SURTAX CITIZEN OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE – TERM EXPIRING ON JANUARY 12, 2027 Item #16K6 RESOLUTION 2025-211: DECLARE A VACANCY ON THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD Item #16K7 COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGAINST RTS OF BROWARD CORP., D/B/A RTS Page 307 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 296 UNDERGROUND, AND ANY OTHER RESPONSIBLE PARTIES FOR $40,829.29 IN DAMAGES CAUSED TO A 6’ WASTEWATER FORCE MAIN IN FRONT OF 3313 EUROPA DRIVE, NAPLES, FLORIDA AND TO SEWER LATERALS LOCATED AT 109, 124, AND 215 WILLOWICK DRIVE, NAPLES, FLORIDA Item #16K8 COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGAINST ESPERANDIEU VILSAINT, IN THE SMALL CLAIMS COURT OF THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, TO RECOVER DAMAGES FOR THE REPAIR OF COLLIER COUNTY PROPERTY TOTALING $3,306.92, PLUS COSTS OF LITIGATION Item #16K9 COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGAINST SIERRA UNDERGROUND CORP. FOR $14,235.38 IN DAMAGES CAUSED TO A COUNTY- OWNED SEWER LATERAL LINE AND ORANGE CONDUIT ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS AND LOCATIONS Item #16K10 AFTER-THE-FACT THE FILING OF THE LAWSUIT, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY FLORIDA V. BIGI & BIGI, LLC, CASE NO. 25-CA-2221, SEEKING Page 308 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 297 SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF AN AGREEMENT OF SALE AND PURCHASE, INCLUDING ADDENDA AND THE FIRST AMENDMENT THERETO, OF FOURTEEN UNITS WITHIN THE “COURT PLAZA III” LOCATED AT 2671 AIRPORT ROAD SOUTH, NAPLES, FLORIDA, AND APPROVE THE COSTS OF LITIGATION Item #16K11 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $90,000 PLUS $23,129 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1291FEE1 REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K12 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $90,000 PLUS $23,183 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1291FEE2 REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K13 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $120,000 PLUS $22,589 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1355FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Page 309 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 298 Item #16K14 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $120,000 PLUS $22,530 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1357FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K15 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $198,000 PLUS $49,918 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1329FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249, AND DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO THE COUNTY MANAGER OR HER DESIGNEE TO PROCESS PAYMENT OF ADDITIONAL STATUTORY ATTORNEY’S FEES FOR SUPPLEMENTAL PROCEEDINGS, IF ANY, AS AUTHORIZED BY CH. 73, FLA. STAT., BUT NOT TO EXCEED $3,000 Item #16K16 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $260,000 PLUS $18,953 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1465RDUE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K17 Page 310 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 299 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $212,500 PLUS $55,121 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1367FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K18 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $90,000 PLUS $24,569 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1298FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K19 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $81,000 PLUS $18,022 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1281FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K20 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $237,000 PLUS $37,876 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1351FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K21 Page 311 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 300 STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $93,500 PLUS $23,816 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY FEES, EXPERT FEES, AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1305FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249 Item #16K22 THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER COUNTY LEGAL AID AGREEMENT TO EXTEND THE TERM OF THE AGREEMENT THROUGH OCTOBER 22, 2030, WITH AUTOMATIC ONE-YEAR RENEWAL TERMS THEREAFTER UNLESS TERMINATED EARLIER BY EITHER PARTY Item #16K23 RESOLUTION 2025-212: APPOINT THE COUNTY MANAGER OR HER DESIGNEE TO SERVE ON THE COLLIER COUNTY COMMUNITY ALLIANCE AS REQUIRED BY SECTION 20.19(5)(D), FLORIDA STATUTE Item #16L1 THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS (BOARD) ACTING IN ITS CAPACITY AS THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY BOARD (CRAB) APPROVE THE SUBMISSION OF AN ELECTRONIC GRANT APPLICATION SUBMITTAL IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,257,075.85 TO THE COLLIER COUNTY COMMUNITY AND HUMAN SERVICES FOR HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD) Page 312 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 301 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) FUNDS FOR THE PURCHASE OF FOUR BAY STREET PROPERTIES Item #16M1 A REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENT FROM THE CITY OF NAPLES FOR FY 24/25 IN THE AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $675,000 USING TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS FOR BEACH MAINTENANCE AND LOWDERMILK PARK PARKING LOT MAINTENANCE, WAIVE ANY IRREGULARITIES IN THE PROCESS, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM Item #17A ORDINANCE AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO UPDATE THE PROVISIONS RELATED TO THE RURAL LANDS STEWARDSHIP AREA ZONING OVERLAY DISTRICT (RLSA DISTRICT). [PL20220003445] (FIRST OF TWO HEARINGS) Item #17B ORDINANCE 2025-46: ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NUMBER 10-06, AS AMENDED, THE MAGNOLIA POND PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD), TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS FROM 231 TO 550 WITH AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING AGREEMENT, TO INCREASE THE MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHTS, TO ADD DEVIATIONS, AND TO REVISE THE MASTER PLAN; AND BY PROVIDING AN Page 313 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 302 EFFECTIVE DATE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED WITHIN THE COLLIER BOULEVARD INTERCHANGE INNOVATION ZONING OVERLAY (CBIIZO) AND PARTIALLY WITHIN THE WELLFIELD RISK MANAGEMENT SPECIAL TREATMENT OVERLAY ZONES W-3 AND W-4. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, CONSISTING OF 47.05± ACRES, IS LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF INTERSTATE I-75, ½ MILE WEST OF COLLIER BOULEVARD (CR 951), AND IS BISECTED BY MAGNOLIA POND DRIVE, IN SECTION 34, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20240010833] Item #17C RESOLUTION 2025-213: RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD, TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES.) Item #17D RESOLUTION 2025-214: RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENTS TO APPROPRIATE BUDGET FOR UNSPENT FY 2024-25 GRANT AND CAPITAL PROJECT BUDGETS AND ROLL OVER PURCHASE ORDERS TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2025-26 ADOPTED BUDGET Page 314 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 303 Item 17E RESOLUTION 2025-215: RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD, TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2025-26 ADOPTED BUDGET Page 315 of 6525 October 14, 2025 Page 304 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:28 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ___________________________________ BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN ATTEST CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK ___________________________ These minutes approved by the Board on ________________, as presented ______________ or as corrected _____________. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC. Page 316 of 6525