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HEX Minutes 10/23/2025October 23, 2025 pg. 1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY HEARING EXAMINER Naples, Florida October 23, 2025 LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier County Hearing Examiner, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 1:00 p.m., in REGULAR SESSION at 2800 North Horseshoe Drive, Room 609/610, Naples, Florida, with the following people present: HEARING EXAMINER ANDREW DICKMAN ALSO PRESENT: Raymond V. Bellows, Zoning Manager Maria Estrada, Planner II Ailyn Padron, Management Analyst I October 23, 2025 pg. 2 P R O C E E D I N G S HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Andrew Dickman. I'm the Hearing Examiner for Collier County. Today is October 23rd, 2025. All rise, please. We'll do the Pledge of Allegiance. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. Thank you, again, everyone, for being here. I appreciate everyone's efforts putting this together. As I said, my name is Andrew Dickman. I'm an attorney barred here in Florida for over 20 years. My specialty's in local government, land-use zoning, environmental law, so I'm very familiar with the subject matter that is within the jurisdiction of the Hearing Examiner for Collier County. My job is to hear these petitions that are supposed to come to the Hearing Examiner, hold a quasi-judicial hearing, get all the testimony and evidence that needs to be on the record, and make a decision within 30 days. I will not make a decision today. The code says for me to render a written decision, and that's done within 30 days. As I said, today is the day that the record stops. So I have familiarized myself with all the backup documentation that goes along with the petition. There's only one petition on the agenda today; is that correct, Ray? MR. BELLOWS: Yes, that's correct. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. I have not had any conversation with anyone regarding this outside of this area. I come here as a neutral decision-maker. I don't have anything to disclose because I don't meet with October 23, 2025 pg. 3 applicants. I don't meet with the staff to get outside information. If I ever do, I will disclose it. I want to make sure that everyone understands that the Hearing Examiner is here clearly to make a fair and neutral decision based on the record and the record alone. As far as the process that we're going to follow is the County introduces the petition, gives me an overview of it, puts it on the record -- I'm aware of it, but we need to get things on the record -- any recommendations, or conditions, and then we'll go to the applicant or the applicant's representative, then we will go to public comment period. And this is a hybrid meeting, which means that there are folks that could be here in person, or they could be attending via Zoom. The County has made that available. Then once I close the public comment section, I'll allow the applicant time for rebuttal or to answer any questions. This is a fairly informal proceeding even though that, under quasi-judicial rules, I want to keep it -- keep it moving forward and orderly. We have a court reporter who's transcribing everything that we say today, so I'm going to do my best to speak as clearly as possible, and I hope everyone will do the same. Anyone that is going to testify before me today will have to do so under oath. In one second, I'll have our court reporter administer that oath. Please don't be nervous. Again, this is informal. It's more important to me to get the facts and the information that I need from anyone who's speaking than it is for me to worry about how much time you're taking. I'll redirect you if I feel like you're getting off track. But it's really important for me to, number one, look for testimony and evidence as it October 23, 2025 pg. 4 relates to the criteria pertaining to this -- to the particular petition, and that's what I will be doing, looking for facts, looking for conclusions of law. So with that, anyone that is going to testify here today, please stand, raise your right hand, and prepare to be sworn in. THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? (The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.) HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. I appreciate that, everyone. Since we have only one item, let's get started with that one item. Good afternoon. MS. ESTRADA: Good afternoon. Maria Estrada, Planner II, for the record. ***Before you is Agenda Item 3A, a variance request, PL20250004062. This request seeks a variance from the Land Development Code Section 4.06.02.C.1 which requires a minimum 10-foot-wide Type A buffer to allow a zero-wide vegetation buffer, including an encroachment variance, to allow the placement of two proposed dumpsters/enclosures along the adjacent public school use property sharing the western property boundary and a request for a variance from the LDC Section 4.06.02.C.4 which requires a minimum 10- foot-wide Type D buffer for any right-of-way up to 90 feet to allow a zero wide -- zero-vegetation buffer along Glades Street and Washington Street in order to address a October 23, 2025 pg. 5 preexisting nonconforming condition and allow for a renovation of the recreational facility at Immokalee Sports Complex. The subject property is on approximately 13.63 acres, known as New Market Block 24 Division -- Subdivision, a/k/ a, also known as 505 Escambia Street, Immokalee, Florida, Section 33, Township 46, Range 29. Staff has reviewed the petition according to the criteria established in LDC Section 9.04.03, a through h. Staff believes this petition is consistent with both the review criteria outlined in the LDC as well as with the GMP. Regarding the public notice requirements, they were met as per LDC Section 10.03.06.F. The applicant distributed the agent letter and affidavit of compliance received on Thursday, September 19th. The property owner -- owner notification letter and newspaper were handled by staff, and the public hearing signs were posted by the applicant on Friday, October 3rd, 2025. The communication I received from the public involved one individual from the neighboring parcel, which was the public school -- I'm just asking for more details. It was provided -- and another neighbor across the street on Washington Street that also wanted information. That -- staff recommends approval, and that concludes staff's summary. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Thank you. Appreciate that. Good review. Thank you. The applicant? Is this -- Stantec is the representative? MR. DeMARCO: Correct. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: So I guess this is a Collier County project, but Stantec is the -- October 23, 2025 pg. 6 MR. DeMARCO: Subconsultant. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. Good. Great. MR. DeMARCO: So my name is Fran DeMarco. I'm a principal and senior project manager with Stantec Consulting Services. Again, we're the design consultant for Collier County Parks and Recreation. Would you forward one slide, please. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. And just for the record, if you can give me a little background on your education and your specialties and -- MR. DeMARCO: I'm a CART certified professional, Council of Architecture Review Board, so I am a landscape designer -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: -- by trade. I have 35 years of experience. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. Great. You're an expert. Congratulations. MR. DeMARCO: Thank you, sir. So what we have in the existing-conditions image before you is an approximate 35-year-old facility, three existing turf -- natural turf soccer fields, and a pool aquatic center. As it relates to this variance petition, what we're specifically looking at is the perimeter buffer around the fence line. Could you go to the next slide, please. HEARING EXAMINER DICKSON: Is it here? Yeah, you've got it. MR. DeMARCO: So what we have -- again, for a October 23, 2025 pg. 7 10-foot-wide landscape buffer, that requires a hedge row as well as trees every 25 feet on center. In order to do that, we would have to violate the existing perimeter berm which, in the original condition of this site, there was no outfall of stormwater. It was all contained and stored on site. So we -- you have a series of perimeter berms. In this scenario, we're keeping and actually reestablishing that berm as part of the new stormwater management design. So we're reengaging the existing perimeter swale, keeping the berm in place. That berm currently has a fence line atop it -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yes. MR. DeMARCO: -- with an existing sidewalk. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: So when you say "swale," how deep is the swale approximately? MR. DeMARCO: The swale's approximately 16 to 24 inches deep. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. All right. And you'll have, I guess, French drains or something for everything to go into? MR. DeMARCO: So the swale is a conveyance swale around the perimeter, so the water will go to control inlets and then outfall to the right-of-way perimeter. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. MR. DeMARCO: To the interior, there used to be ponding between Fields 1 and 2 and 2 and 3. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: Our job, as part of this project, is to eliminate that ponding. It used to be about 360 feet by 60 feet wide by 2-foot deep ponds between those fields. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: And you're October 23, 2025 pg. 8 going to raise that up a little bit? MR. DeMARCO: So we're going to flatten that, but we're also introducing stormwater structures, piping, and French drains. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Great. MR. DeMARCO: The intended outfall, I believe it's a 100-year storm, is less than a half an inch of water for outfall. So we're still keeping the majority of water on site. It's just below grade. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. And the fields are going to be artificial turf now or -- MR. DeMARCO: Field 2 and Field 3 are being converted to artificial turf fields. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: Field 1 will be the construction lay- down area, and then it will be renovated and reestablished as a natural turf field. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: I'm just -- out of curiosity, why? Some people like grass, some people don't? MR. DeMARCO: It's -- it has to do with -- so in the summertime, you're going to really burn out the turf from the foot traffic -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. MR. DeMARCO: -- and you have to reestablish every season the natural turf fields. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: So Field 2 and Field 3, they're not going to lose their grade. They're not going to be inundated through rain and create trip hazards. You know, everybody knows, when you step in soft turf, you create a divot. We don't want twisted ankles. October 23, 2025 pg. 9 HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Of course not. MR. DeMARCO: So this provides better year-round use and accessibility. It's safer and, you know, this is, you know, what the County program is going to. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. And they're all lighted. I see they're all -- MR. DeMARCO: There is -- there is overhead field lighting. Those poles are approximately 30- to 40-feet tall. They vary. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Great, great. Okay. Nice. And all this is going to be redesigned with new landscaping, new seating, and stuff like that? MR. DeMARCO: Correct. Can we go back one slide? HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Am I going too far ahead for you? MR. DeMARCO: I'm going to -- basically, your questions are answered in the next two slides. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. Go ahead. I'll just be quiet. MR. DeMARCO: No worries. So what you can see here is around the perimeter there's no landscape whatsoever at this point in time. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yep, yep. MR. DeMARCO: But you do see between the fields, where there is bleachers, palm trees for some semblance of shade on the bleachers. Those bleachers are moveable. I'm sorry. I don't have a pointer; otherwise, I'd be pointing. Between the fields you have pockets of -- yep, right there. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yep. MR. DeMARCO: What we're trying to do is keep and protect what palm trees are there, put in the new program, October 23, 2025 pg. 10 and further enhance the landscape between those fields. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: The goal here for this whole variance is self -- safety of the athletes. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yep. MR. DeMARCO: So what we don't want to do is create -- introduce canopy trees that create shadows on fields or leaf litter, creating slip hazards. We don't want to include trees around the perimeter, or hedges, because balls get caught in trees if they get over-kicked. Hedges are not fun to run into. We also don't want to introduce trees or hedges within the conveyance swale -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. MR. DeMARCO: -- and we don't want conflicts with canopy trees within the fenced area so it's going to be an 8-foot chain-link fence around the perimeter for security purposes, and then you're going to have, further, a 20-foot soft net backstop behind each field end. And so we don't want canopy trees growing into that soft netting -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yeah. MR. DeMARCO: -- and creating additional maintenance requirements. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: So the entrance onto this is going to be through this facility? MR. DeMARCO: So the entrance -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: So the parking's here. I guess they come up through here. MR. DeMARCO: So the entrance to this facility is actually -- do you see the two building -- right there. There is an access road that goes kind of -- where you have your thing, if you go diagonally to the 2 o'clock position, yep, October 23, 2025 pg. 11 there's a road between the aquatic facility and the field where those line of trees are. Right there. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. Right here. Okay. MR. DeMARCO: Yep. That's an existing access drive which we're actually widening to meet current fire apparatus codes. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Excellent, yeah, because if somebody gets hurt... And this is a beautiful facility. How old is that? MR. DeMARCO: Again, it's a 35-year-old facility. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Really? Wow. Okay. Okay. MR. DeMARCO: So what we're intending to do is -- again, is health, safety, welfare for the athletes: Proper lighting; proper accessibility for ADA to the bleachers. Currently, there's no sidewalks. We're going to provide those sidewalks; fire apparatus; widening; turf fields; natural turf; field restoration; new fence lines; new backstops; and a new stormwater system to help maintain and reduce the amount of accumulated water at the surface. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay, great. MR. DeMARCO: Can we go to two slides forward, please. So what we're asking is along -- along the south of that red area, along the east side of that red area, and then the space between the Immokalee technical school and our park, we're asking for the landscape variance to essentially keep the existing landscape as it is rather than enhance it and introduce any conflicts for players; lighting, et cetera. All the way at the top tip area, you'll see a small red October 23, 2025 pg. 12 spot right there. That's where the existing dumpsters sit, but they don't currently have enclosures. We're going to create those enclosures to meet the code. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: Otherwise, it's a very, very simple, you know, request for the variance. It's really -- we'd like to keep it the same and not introduce further conflicts. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: Can we go one slide further. So to answer your question about the swale -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. MR. DeMARCO: -- this is the terminal end of one of those swales. So you can see that there's a 10-foot safety runout kind of in line with the goal post, and then you dip into those swales, and those swales have structures in them. So the water, by gravity, will convey through -- through the exterior. Rather than the middle of the fields, it will convey through the exterior into these control structures and ultimately into the right-of-way swale. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: So we don't -- we don't want our athletes in that swale where there may be water accumulation, and we certainly don't want trees, shrubs, in conflict with the stormwater or the fence lines, back stops. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: And this is all only just grassed -- grass? MR. DeMARCO: Turfed, yes. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. And it's all gravity, right? Like -- so basically -- MR. DeMARCO: Correct. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: -- it's just October 23, 2025 pg. 13 coming down into whatever facility this is, and then when it overflows, it goes into the right-of-way? MR. DeMARCO: Correct. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: System. The right- of-way system, not into the right-of-way? MR. DeMARCO: Correct. You can see kind of the swale sits on the other side of the existing berm. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yeah. And this is the fence that you're talking about? MR. BELLOWS: So you're going to have an 8-foot fence just to the left of that person that's on the sidewalk, and then in line with that, you'll have the 20-foot soft fence as well. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: That's specifically behind each of the three field -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Is this -- MR. DeMARCO: Field ends. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: -- Messi or David Beckham? MR. DeMARCO: That's the best player Immokalee's got. So, really, what we're trying to do is reduce -- not introduce any additional conflicts with vegetation, with stormwater, and with fencing. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yeah. That makes sense. So if an errant ball goes in here, it's just a matter of going back into the swale unless the swale's got water in it. MR. DeMARCO: I've never met a kids who doesn't want to get his feet wet, jump in the puddles. October 23, 2025 pg. 14 But, again, these are set to perc. So by pulling -- the only water that will be on the surface is in the perimeter swale; otherwise, it goes into the ground into our French drain system. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Got you. Okay. MR. DeMARCO: So it's really -- it's really just the -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Is it easy maintenance at that angle, and it's not a deep swale, but it's enough to get the gravity going. MR. DeMARCO: It's enough to get the gravity going. It's enough to provide percolation. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: It's easy enough to mow. MR. DeMARCO: And it is an angle at which we can mow. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. MR. DeMARCO: Yeah. We don't want anybody running beyond the goal or that safety and all of a sudden there's a ditch. We want to avoid ditch. Again, it's a swale. It's a soft, you know, concave part. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Gotcha. Typical swale, gotcha. MR. DeMARCO: Okay. Can we go to the next slide. So this is the proposed site plan. So you can see that we're not eliminating all the vegetation around it. We're certainly introducing some aesthetic value and shade to the project. It's just that we're asking for a variance so we don't have to put in, basically, the field ends and interfere with lighting or swale conditions. So the landscape is placed strategically but, again, we're asking for no future conflicts be introduced to the site. October 23, 2025 pg. 15 HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: I mean, wouldn't you think also that by putting in a buffer here, a vegetated buffer, you can't really see through it, you know what I mean? So it's almost like it's a better safety practice for this particular use. MR. DeMARCO: I didn't know if you wanted to go into SEP/TEP principles at this point in time, but -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Oh, yeah. I was just thinking out loud, because it just seems like I would rather have people looking in on the field and being able to see what's going on and that kind of thing. MR. DeMARCO: Yeah. So SEP/TED principles, if the Sheriff were to drive by that, what you really want to do is create lighting, okay. So these fields would be lit, you want a hedge row that is less than 24 inches tall so they can be seen, and you want nothing below a 7-foot. So you create this window around the perimeter. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: In this case, if we were to put landscape, what we would have to do is we would have to move the fence line because, remember, buffers have to be outside the fence line. The fence line resides on the right-of-way line. We'd have to shorten all these fields, and then you would be less than your competition dimensions for the fields. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: So, you know, we're retrofitting a 35-year-old facility the best we can, and this is -- this is what we've come up with. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: And what -- what is this triangle up here? Is this a retention? October 23, 2025 pg. 16 MR. DeMARCO: That is someone else's property. That is a retention pond. That is on the school's property. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: It's owned by someone else? MR. DeMARCO: It's on the school's property. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Oh, I see. All right. MR. DeMARCO: So that takes care of their parking lot and their building. That's their required drainage. Remember, our entire site, this entire site, the park, has a perimeter berm. It is its own retention pond. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. It seems like it's pretty heavily used, so -- yeah. MR. DeMARCO: I can't speak to the programming. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: I mean, just looking at it, you can -- MR. DeMARCO: Jaime can speak to the program. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: -- tell that it's used. MS. COOK: Yes. MR. DeMARCO: Yes. There's a -- my understand is there's a very robust soccer program out there that's chewing on the bit to get these new fields. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: It's worth noting this is one of the last elements to finalize our SDPA plan. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. DeMARCO: Last hurdle is sitting right here. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Last one on the list? MR. DeMARCO: Last one on the list, sir. October 23, 2025 pg. 17 HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Well, let's get it done. All right. That's it? MR. DeMARCO: That's it, sir. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay, great. I understand the project. Anybody signed up to speak? Public? MS. PADRON: We have no speakers. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. Honestly, this is a very straightforward process. Typically what happens is the Hearing Examiner hears very straightforward projects; otherwise, they go to the Planning Commission. The complicated ones go there. So I understand exactly what you're doing, why you're doing it. And I think it's an important project for that community. I think they need these types of facilities, and I think it's going to be a nice asset, especially with the artificial turf and then also having one that's not artificial. I think it's going to be great. I think you've made some great arguments for the variance that meet the criteria. I will go over everything. I'm going to give the County -- if they have anything else they want to put in, or you have any last words. Anybody else? Otherwise, I'm fully aware of what's going on. You good? MR. BELLOWS: Yep, we have nothing. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. So the County has nothing. You're finished? MR. DeMARCO: I'm good, sir. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. Nice presentation, everyone. I will get a decision out as quickly as possible. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it. October 23, 2025 pg. 18 MR. DeMARCO: Thank you, sir. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. Take care. Great. Anything else you want to talk about? MR. BELLOWS: Well, let's see. Upcoming, the next HEX meeting I think we have a lot more than one. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Okay. MR. BELLOWS: So you're going to get more as -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Cool. A little more action going. MS. ESTRADA: That one's going to be a lot more. MR. BELLOWS: Yeah. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. You're just warning me ahead of time. Okay. When's our next meeting? It's in two weeks, right? MR. BELLOWS: Three, I think. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Three weeks. MR. BELLOWS: Next week is a non-Planning or HEX week. The 30th -- HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: We're talking about November 13th, my brother's birthday. MR. BELLOWS: Oh, wow. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: All right. Okay. MR. BELLOWS: We'll have to bring the cake. HEARING EXAMINER DICKMAN: Yeah. I'll have to bring him down here from Tampa. All right. We are adjourned at 1:20 [sic]. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for all the hard work. October 23, 2025 pg. 19 ******* There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Hearing Examiner at 1:25 p.m. COLLIER COUNTY HEARING EXAMINER _______________________________ ANDREW DICKMAN, HEARING EXAMINER These minutes approved by the Hearing Examiner on ____, as presented ___ or as corrected ___. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING, BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC. October 23, 2025 Page 18 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Hearing Examiner at 1:25 p.m. COLLIER COUNTY HEARING EXAMINER ________________________________________ ANDREW DICKMAN, HEARING EXAMINER These minutes approved by the Hearing Examiner on ___________, as presented ______________ or as corrected _________________. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING, BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC.