Agenda 10/28/2025 Item # 2B (September 23, 2025 BCC Minutes)September 23, 2025
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, September 23, 2025
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Burt L. Saunders
Dan Kowal
Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
Page 11 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 2
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
Item #1A
INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - INVOCATION
BY PASTOR GREG BALL FROM DESTINY CHURCH, THE
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LEAD BY PFC JIM VITTING, ARMY
VETERAN
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the meeting
of the County Commission will please come to order.
We have an excited crowd here this morning, so looking
forward to this agenda.
We're going to start off, as always, with our invocation and
Pledge of Allegiance. We have Pastor Greg Ball with Destiny
Church that's going to lead us in the invocation, and following that,
we have Jim Bidding, an Army veteran, who's going to lead us in the
Pledge of Allegiance. PFC Bidding has reached the age of 91, and
we really appreciate him coming to help us with the Pledge of
Allegiance this morning. So thank you.
PASTOR BALL: All right. Let us pray.
Lord, I thank you, for your word tells us in Philippians 1:6 that
you've begun a good work and you will complete it.
I thank you for the growth of our county. I thank you for the
blessing that is upon this land. I thank you for leaders that have
invited the invocation into this meeting today and, God, I thank you
that you will bless this meeting and bless these leaders. I thank you,
God, that you will give them wisdom.
The greatest king in Israel's history was David, and I thank you
that as he inquired of the Lord, you gave him wisdom. And today I
thank you that, Lord, as we inquire of you, you will bless the
Page 12 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 3
decisions made today and, God, you will give protection and
guidance and leadership, and we thank you for it in Jesus' name.
Amen.
PFC BIDDING: Will you be with me in Pledge to the flag,
please.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think Ms. Bolin may want to have
a moment.
Jim Bidding is a volunteer serving his church and veterans.
Before Ms. Bolin begins, I want to thank her for having a veteran
here to lead us in the Pledge. I think it was Commissioner Hall that
started that tradition, and it really has, I think, added a lot to our
meetings to get started in this way. And so I want to thank you,
because it's a tremendous effort to find somebody, make sure
everybody's here, and I really appreciate it.
MS. BOLIN: It's a labor of love, and it's really no trouble at all,
and we appreciate it.
Where'd my boy go? East Naples, no? He's told me three times.
East Naples United Methodist Church has a resale shop open every
Tuesday and Thursday from 9 to 1. It's right next to the complex
here. And he volunteers there a couple times a week. So we invite
you all to come on over, and thank you so much for doing this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: He was in the service from '56
through '58.
MS. BOLIN: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So those were tough times.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Korean War.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Not that -- all times were tough,
but --
MS. BOLIN: We're just glad he's with us.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. BOLIN: Thank you.
Page 13 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 4
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT, AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX-PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
KOWAL – APPROVED AND/OR ADOPT W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Agenda changes for September
23rd, 2025.
First, we're moving Item 17H to 9C. This is a recommendation
to adopt an ordinance repealing and replacing Ordinance No. 2004-06
to restructure the Domestic Animal Services Advisory Committee;
provide for the creation, purpose, powers, and duties; provide for
appointment and composition, terms of office, attendance, and
removal from office; provide for officers, quorum, and rules of
procedure. This item is being moved at Commissioner Saunders' and
Commissioner McDaniel's separate requests.
Next, move Item 17I to 9D. This is a recommendation to adopt
an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 2013-33, as amended, which
established the Animal Control Ordinance. Again, this is being
moved at Commissioner Saunders' and Commissioner McDaniel's
separate requests.
Move Item 17K to 9E. This is a recommendation to adopt an
ordinance amending Ordinance No. 2013-55 which established the
standards of care for animal-related businesses and organizations,
breeders, and rodeos ordinance. Again, being moved at
Commissioner Saunders' and Commissioner McDaniel's separate
Page 14 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 5
requests.
Next is continue Item 16A9 to October 14th, 2025. This is a
recommendation to approve a resolution superseding Resolution
No. 2018-106 amending the Collier County Domestic Animal
Services fee policy as it relates to the authority of the director of
Domestic Animal Services and reflecting the operating costs
associated with animal-related businesses and breeders, and we will
be changing that effective date. This is being --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, on that particular
item, we had continued to a date certain the fee waiver for adoptions.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think we did that because we
knew this ordinance was going to be coming today.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've continued this to the 14th.
Do we need to extend that fee thing for another month?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, and the reason that this is being
moved -- because this was originally planned to be brought to the
regular agenda along with the other DAS items, but we -- I identified
a couple of changes and corrections that are needed within the fee
schedule that were more than what we could put on the change sheet.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you would make a note to
remind us to extend that fee --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- sometime during this meeting.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We can do it at the end under
commission comments or under staff.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Yes, sir.
That brings us then to our -- a couple more changes. Move
Item 16D8 to 11F. This is a recommendation to approve and
Page 15 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 6
authorize the County Manager to sign the Low Income Pool Letter of
Agreement with the Agency for Health Care Administration in the
amount not to exceed $2,371,401, to participate in the Medicaid
Central Receiving Facility Low Income Pool Program generating
$3,171,846.24 in federal matching funds for the benefit of David
Lawrence Mental Health Center, to sign the provider questionnaire to
assist in meeting the state-required match obligation, and authorize
the necessary budget amendments to the Fiscal Year 2026 budget in
the amount of $594,235.91. This item is being moved at
Commissioner Hall's request.
We do have an add-on item for discussion under our staff
reports. That is the NIM handout discussion. We're going to show
you what we've produced, at the Board's direction, to be able to hand
out at the NIMs.
Just a couple agenda notes. Item -- I'm sorry. Item 5B is a
PACE legislative update by PACE Industries. We did only reflect
one name on the agenda.
A typo was recognized in the table uploaded to Item 16K1 and
was corrected the day after it was initially published.
Finally, time-certain, we have Item 11D to be heard at 10 a.m.
This is relative to the tourism marketing FY '26 request for up to $5
million from reserves for enhanced promotion to remain competitive.
And Item 11E to be heard at 11 a.m., which is the Marco Island
Beach berm restoration of the Tigertail/Sand Dollar Island spit
reimbursement of $647,873 from TDT funds.
With that, we have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30
and 2:50.
And I will look over to the County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes, thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal, any
Page 16 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 7
changes?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No changes. No ex parte on
consent agenda or summary.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. I
have no changes and no consent ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Same.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I have no other changes
and no ex parte as well.
So we need a motion to approve the agenda as amended.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second to
approve the agenda as amended. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Page 17 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 8
Item #2B
AUGUST 26, 2025, BCC MINUTES - MOTION TO APPROVE AS
PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Very good. That brings us to Item 2A, and
this is the approval of the August 26th, 2025, BCC minutes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have a motion.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And second to approve the
amendments [sic]. Any discussion -- any corrections in the
amendments -- or the notes?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, all in favor, signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Item #3A1
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - EMPLOYEE - 20 YEAR
Page 18 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 9
ATTENDEES – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 3,
awards and recognitions. We do have several employees here joining
us. We're going to start with our 20-year attendees.
First up we have Joseph Mucha, 20 years. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Next, 20 years, Evelyn Trimino,
Operations & Regulatory Management. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
Item #3A2
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - EMPLOYEE - 25 YEAR
ATTENDEES – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Moving on to 25 years, Connie Deane,
Communications, Government & Public Affairs. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Maria, how's he doing out
there, the photographer? Good? Things are going to come out
blurry, a little blurry? Heads cut off.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Caroline Soto, Fiscal & Grant Services, 25
years. Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Bus these people in from
every county building or what?
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Dianna Perryman, Operations &
Regulatory Management, 25 years. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
Page 19 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 10
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Maria, you caught that for the
assessment that you're doing on him? One step, yeah, wrong way.
MS. PATTERSON: Geo Gonzalez, Road, Bridge & Stormwater
Maintenance, 25 years. Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER HALL: You better hurry. It's raining.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Jeffrey Allen Smith, Wastewater.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Wastewater, do we have
cleanup -- you know, wash up before you came here?
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Aubrey R. Hughes, Water.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Don't sit down just yet. We have
one more. Ms. Patterson did not want to be in the list, but I have
insisted that we recognize here. She has served the County for -- I
won't say how many years, but 25, and is evidence of the fact that not
only is this a wonderful place to work, but there are opportunities to
move up the ranks. And so she -- I'm not sure where you started. If
you would tell us, what was your first position?
MS. PATTERSON: I was actually a temporary employee over
in Community Development in the records room, and then I moved
shortly thereafter to impact fees.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So she rose to the level of County
Manager. We're very proud to have her as our County Manager. I
believe the first woman to be the manager of Collier County.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So a lot of glass ceilings that she
broke.
Page 20 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 11
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And she said it was okay for me to
say something about her as long as she didn't have to come up here
and take a photo. But come on up. Get your photo taken.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Follow instructions.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Awe, congratulations.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Too far, too far, too far.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on a second. Is there a --
there's something else in here, so let's open it up so that you get the
photo with the plaque.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's a Rolex watch.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's a Rolex.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Coupons.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There's all kinds of stuff in there.
(Applause.)
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 1, 2025, AS
REDLANDS CHRISTIAN MIGRANT ASSOCIATION 60TH
ANNIVERSARY. TO BE ACCEPTED BY GLORIA PADILLA,
COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 4,
proclamations.
Item 4A is a proclamation designating October 1st, 2025, as
Redlands Christian Migrant Association 60th Anniversary. To be
Page 21 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 12
accepted by Gloria Padilla, community relations manager.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. PADILLA: Now I'd like my team, all the team.
Everybody. Steve, come on. Sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's okay.
MS. PADILLA: Where is Steve Kurt? He's not getting up?
Hey, Steve.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'd like to tell us a little bit
about the Redlands Christian Migrant Association, you're invited to
do so.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. First of all, we couldn't do
very much in Immokalee without our favorite commissioner, and he
is my favorite commissioner on speed dial. I want to thank you --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So you all know, that was part
of the record.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, she hasn't said who that is
yet. I'm still waiting for that.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What, you're an aunt? You're
a cousin? You're a --
MS. PADILLA: Well, you know, I do have a story of each one
of you. Daniel, I think you're the newest one, so I don't have much
on you. But, Mr. Hall, Burt Saunders --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: There's not much out here.
MS. PADILLA: -- you have been here forever, and thank you
so much, what you've done.
And, Rick, I see you at the Party Hardie at Barbara Mills
(phonetic). You're the emcee there, so I know you know how to
party, and we know how to have fun.
But, again, thank you so much, because Immokalee would not
Page 22 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 13
be Immokalee without the support of the county commissioners, and
especially, you know, my favorite commissioner that -- we do call
him that because he deserves that title. He is amazing, and he's an
advocate for Immokalee. And our CMA.
So thank you so much. Amy, I know that I've been part of you
with Leadership Collier. You've been there. You advocate for us.
So again, thank you so much, and another 60 years.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So she still hasn't said a
name yet, but I am assuming --
MS. PADILLA: Oh, I am sorry. My name is Gloria Padilla,
and -- oh, you mean my favorite?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You haven't named your favorite
commissioner yet.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Your time's up.
MS. PADILLA: So my favorite is -- my favorite is -- okay.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Bill McDaniels.
MS. PADILLA: Mr. McDaniel, Rick LoCastro, Burt Saunders,
Chris, and Daniel. You guys are all our favorites. We all need you in
some capacity.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How's that for politically
correct?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. That was a very good
strategic move on your part, so thank you.
MS. PADILLA: Thank you so much.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a motion to
accept the proclamation.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And a second. All in favor, signify
Page 23 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 14
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE QUARTER FOR SEPTEMBER 2025 TO ANDREW HILL
INVESTMENT ADVISORS, INC. THE AWARD WILL BE
ACCEPTED BY REPRESENTATIVES OF ANDREW HILL
INVESTMENT ADVISORS, INC., AND THE GREATER NAPLES
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 5,
presentations. Item 5A is a presentation of the Collier County
Business of the Quarter for September 2025 to Andrew Hill
Investment Advisors, Inc. The award will be accepted by
representatives of Andrew Hill Investment Advisors, Inc., and the
Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MR. HILL: Good morning, everybody. Thank you very much
for this honor. The last time I think I received something of this
nature I was playing hockey and got an award for -- I won a
championship or an MVP. So this is -- this is particularly
heartwarming.
Page 24 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 15
On behalf of my firm, which includes Jennifer Figurelli, my
long-time business partner; Elicha Moore, who's been with our firm
for about nine years; and Sean O'Brien who works out of Buffalo. It
was a little too warm for him to come down for today's award.
So anyhow, I just wanted to give you a brief history on our firm.
Jennifer and I started the firm in 2010 with zero assets in our
management, zero clients, and left our cushy jobs at a trust bank to
set out on doing our own firm, which we thought there was a real
opportunity to be serving our community with putting our clients
first.
Well, this morning we're responsible for a little bit over
$225 million in serving over 100 clients. And what I think is kind of
noteworthy to this community is that while so many firms in this
community focus on the ultra wealthy, our firm focuses on those that
are some steps below that. Many of our clients are retirees from the
county system, a lot of community service, a lot of teachers we take
care of, and we do have a few successful businesspersons that make
up our clientele. And we focus on the middle-class millionaire next
door that may need help in all the issues that are challenging to
navigate in the financial world.
So thank you very much for this honor. This is great. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, Andy, you do a lot of stuff
in -- or you used to have a fishing tournament and things of that
nature. Do you still engage in those? I'm assuming you do.
MR. HILL: Yes. And each of us in the firm participate in
various activities where we support the community either through our
time or our financial resources, yes. And the Red Snook
tournament's coming up in the end of October. Feel free to
participate in it.
I know there's a commissioner who likes to fish out in
Page 25 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 16
Chokoloskee, and I've seen him in Kenny Brown's marina store. So I
hope to see him there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Would that be your favorite
commissioner?
MR. HILL: Yeah. You're all my favorite.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yeah. There we go.
There we go. I can't win today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, thank you very much, and
congratulations.
(Applause.)
Item #5B
PACE LEGISLATIVE UPDATE BY PACE INDUSTRIES –
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 5B,
PACE legislative update by our PACE industry partners. And we
have your presentation up, so I'll invite you to come to the podium.
Thank you.
MS. SUAREZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MS. SUAREZ: Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, members.
Thank you so much for having me today.
My name's Jennifer Rojo Suarez. I'm with Renew Financial.
It's one of the PACE providers operating here in Florida. I'm also
joined by some of my industry partners here with Mark Scheffel from
Ygrene, as well as Chris Peterson from Home Run -- representing
Home Run and FortiFi.
Before I dive in, Collier County previously chose to step away
from PACE due to concerns, especially around contractors. My goal
Page 26 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 17
today is to really go through with you some of the recent changes and
how the program has evolved since it was last here.
So let me walk you through what PACE is, quickly. I'm sure
many of you are very familiar with it, but I'll walk through you [sic]
with some of -- what PACE is, quickly, as well as how it's evolved
with the recent changes with SB770.
PACE is a financing tool that helps homeowners make critical
improvements such as energy efficiency and hardening and
renewable energy upgrades. Repayment happens through the
voluntary non-ad valorem assessment on the property owner's tax
bill, just like other benefit assessments you've already -- you're
familiar with like solid -- and solid waste and garbage collection or
water and sewer. But what's important to note here is that this is not
a government subsidy. It does not use any public funds, and this is
100 percent privately financed and voluntary. So the homeowner
volunteers. If they want to use the PACE program, they choose the
program.
So homeowners who choose the program for their improvements
pay it back annually through their property tax bill. And the terms
are capped at 20 years. There's no prepayment penalty for residential
properties, and if the homeowner wants to pay the lump sum, some --
sorry. If the homeowner wants to pay part of the assessment or a
lump sum, there's no prepayment penalties for going -- for paying it
before the term ends. And all the funds are collected through the Tax
Collector using the standard uniform method.
Next slide as well. Thank you.
Here's a quick simplified overview of how the process generally
works. You could go through it, and if there's any more questions,
we could go through it at the end. But the type of improvements
PACE has traditionally covered, projects like impact windows and
doors, roofing, HVAC systems, and solar. The statute is clear that
Page 27 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 18
PACE cannot be used for things like a new kitchen, so not
beautification projects. This is for a public purpose that's going to
help your community and the local needs.
Next slide. Next slide. Thank you.
And now with SB770, we also have septic-to-sewer conversions
and flood mitigation measures that can be used with PACE. So
things like elevating a structure above the base flood elevation or
installing seawalls. Again, this reflects the intention of the program,
which is to serve the public need and local needs of the community.
Next slide. Thank you.
PACE offers many benefits to property owners. It covers
100 percent of the upfront costs. Financing terms are up to 20 years
with fixed interest rates. It's not based on credit scores but instead on
the ability to pay and equity in your home, allowing more families to
afford improvements that can reduce energy bills and save on
property insurance, which we know that's something that is of a
concern here in the community in Florida.
PACE can also be combined with other federal and state utility
incentives.
Next slide, please.
In order for a homeowner to qualify, they must be current on
their property taxes and their mortgage. Homeowner cannot be in
bankruptcy and must not have involuntary liens. Funding is capped
at 20 percent of the just value, as determined by the Property
Appraiser, and that you have the ability to pay.
The PACE program has evolved significantly. With Senate Bill
770, we're operating under a very different, much stronger framework
of consumer protections. Today's program has safeguards at every
step of the way. Homeowners must pass an ability-to-pay test,
including income qualifications to ensure people aren't borrowing
more than what they can afford.
Page 28 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 19
All terms must be clear with no before-you-owe disclosures.
And very important, we perform a confirmation-of-terms call in the
beginning with the homeowner where we go over all the key terms of
the financing as well as their understanding of the obligations of the
financing with the property owner. Homeowners have a three-day
right to cancel, and enrolled contractors can only be paid after work
is verified complete by the homeowner, signing a complete -- a
certification of completion.
Next slide, please.
Here's some more consumer protections that you could go ahead
and look through. We've gone through some of those.
Next slide, please. A little bit more.
So those two pages there are full of consumer protections.
Again, that came in through SB770.
Another key change that came from SB770 that's important to
note is that there's now direct state oversight. The auditor general is
required to audit every program every three years, and these reports
will be publicly posted, ensuring full transparency. SB770 always
made it clear that counties and municipalities authorize PACE by
ordinance or resolution before it can be offered. This is something
the PACE industry pushed for in Tallahassee, and it was very
important for us to get through the legislation.
Contractor quality assurance. Next slide. Next slide.
Contractor quality -- there's -- we've made some strong reforms
here. Every contractor must be licensed, insured, and must go
through a background check. They also go through comprehensive
training and code of conduct. If contractors do not continue to
comply with eligibility criteria from their participation agreement,
contractors are suspended, put on probation, or terminated. And after
SB770, we put this information -- we're required per law to put this
information on our website. So we have a list of our contractors there
Page 29 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 20
as well as their current status with the program.
Finally, the benefits to local governments -- for local
governments, it's a win-win. We help achieve sustainability goals,
hardens properties against storms, and improves the building stock,
creates local jobs, and supports economic development at zero cost to
the county. Again, these are -- no public funds used. This is entirely
privately financed.
And I'll close there. I just want to say thank you again for
allowing me to present. And again, the program has evolved, and
PACE is a much better program today, so we hope we could partner
in the future. If you have any questions, I'm here, and my colleagues
are here as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I do have at least one
question that may generate some additional ones.
Back when Ygreen was the provider in Collier County for the
residential services, there was always a phone call between the
Ygreen and the borrower, and those calls were recorded, and that
provided a record as -- to ensure that the borrower was getting full
information. You indicated that there's a requirement for the phone
call. Is that phone call recorded as well?
MS. SUAREZ: That's correct, yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, is that a -- does that phone
call become a public record, so if somebody wanted to take a look --
say someone from Collier County wanted to make sure that the
proper information is being provided, is that something that could be
provided to the county at a request?
MS. SUAREZ: That is something that can be added in terms of
the ordinance or how it would look here in the county. We've done
that, I believe, in another jurisdiction where we could provide that if
necessary.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me -- just for clarification. So
Page 30 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 21
that phone call is recorded. Is it required by state law to be recorded?
MS. SUAREZ: Correct, yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Great.
All right. Any other questions? Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
If you don't mind just -- and, again, PACE has been around for a
minute, while we were -- since shortly after we got on the Board,
after Commissioner Saunders and I got on the Board.
If you would, just share a little bit, any one of the three of you.
I'm not picking a favorite right now. Share with me some of the --
you know, there was big concern with regard to misrepresentation.
Habitat for Humanity was -- was a -- homeowners of Habitat homes
were taken advantage of on a regular basis. If you could share a little
bit -- just a little bit extra. I mean -- and then I have a comment with
regard to the recording of the calls. So if you would, please, just talk
a little bit more about the consumer protection aspect, if you would.
MR. SCHEFFEL: Be happy to. Thank you, Commissioners.
Mark Scheffel. I'm with Ygreen. I run government affairs for them.
And just a quick comment, Commissioner Saunders, to your
point, the confirmed -- confirmed terms call is required by the statute.
It is recorded. There's ability to get that information. There's
obviously safeguards and concerns over personally identifiable
information. And so if there's an occasion where it needs to be
shared, we'd obviously work with the County and work through that.
Commissioner McDaniel, yes. So Senate Bill 770 was a
collaborative effort in Tallahassee between industry, obviously
legislature, stakeholders, and groups -- Florida Association of
Counties, for example, that had an interest in this. And we
specifically targeted many of the issues. One amongst was the issue
you brought up with homes that received grants and funding like that,
like Habitat. It is specifically written into that. Habitat homes have
Page 31 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 22
specific deed restrictions in the nature of their financing that would
make them ineligible for a PACE assessment.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that was one of the things
that frustrated me the last time, because I know they have specific
language in their mortgages to prohibit those things, but yet it was
still transpiring, and that was -- that was -- I almost -- I almost felt
like it was put over here to blame someone else when enforcement
wasn't necessarily being acted upon by the lender, so...
MR. SCHEFFEL: That's really --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My other comment had to do
similar -- and I think you addressed it. I wouldn't have -- I certainly
hope that the phone conversations are, in fact, recorded, but as long
as sufficient protection is put in place in the event that the County
were to ask for it or someone were to ask for it, we wouldn't want
personal information being divulged through that, so...
MR. SCHEFFEL: Correct. That is safeguarded.
And then just to -- back up on your comment on Habitat, that's
actually twofold. Not only is the prohibition in the language of the
statute, but all of industry has safeguards that would -- that would
trigger if that tried to get into the system. It would trigger, and it
would not be eligible. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any other questions?
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
So I haven't been privy to the operational of this thing, but just
in my brain, I'm thinking, "Okay. There's got to be a financing rate
for a 20-year term." And a lot can happen in a year with a
homeowner since there's no monthly payments being made. You're
strictly relying on them to pay their tax and then pay you along with
that. What is the collateral position in case of a default to the
homeowner?
Page 32 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 23
MR. PETERSON: Thank you, sir. Chris Peterson, FortiFi
Financial.
I would address that by saying there are -- give the ability to
impound these payments with your -- or escrow these payments. So
you can make those with your mortgage payment. All you have to do
is -- we provide all of the information. We walk the homeowner how
to do that. So most people that have a mortgage are going to do it
that way.
COMMISSIONER HALL: They're escrowing with the
payment, just like they do taxes?
MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good.
MR. PETERSON: But we are with the property taxes. So if
you're late on your property taxes, you know, you're going to owe
what's in arrears and have to bring that current. We can't -- we can't
escalate our loan. We can't call our loan, basically. It has to go with
the property taxes and assumes those same rules.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So what is the collateral
position if a homeowner is able to pay their property taxes but they're
not able to pay you? What's the ramifications to the homeowner?
MR. PETERSON: So you're not able to separate out -- we're a
line item on the property tax, but you can't separate that out. You
either pay your property taxes or you don't.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay, good.
MR. KLATZKOW: They can foreclose.
MR. PETERSON: Yeah. We don't -- we don't initiate
foreclosure. That would go through the county, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I do.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
Page 33 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 24
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I mean, I'd like Jeremy French to come up here to the podium,
because I will tell you I've probably spent the most time with him
trying to understand and pick apart this program and figure out where
we have concerns, have you guys made it better, and things that
predated me, you know, possibly with the program.
And, Jamie, just -- if you have something to add or to clarify, I
think it's important. If you don't, then come to the podium and say,
"No, they covered it all perfectly." But I know you have a lot of
depth in this program and have helped me sort of peel back the onion
on it and understand rumor from fact. I want to just hear your
perspective for the record.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioner. For the record, my
name's Jamie French. I'm the Growth Management and Community
Development department head.
This will be, I think, my seventh time. I think I held the record
of most times an item came back to the Board of County
Commissioners. It was six on PACE.
And just so you know, you do have a program with PACE. It
is -- it prohibits them to only writing for multifamily and those that
might have some sort of financial advisor where you've got a board.
Their interest rates are typically -- and this -- and PACE is a viable
option. I will tell you from the development side as well as from the
financial side, it is a viable option for those that may not qualify
because they don't have -- they've got the wherewithal to pay the
loan, but perhaps they don't have the right credit score.
Their interest rates are somewhere just below. I think that
they're probably still below a credit card, but they're current -- they
are not at bank finance rates.
It's been a successful viable option for certain things like
reroofs, for hardening of the structure. I think the Board led into
Page 34 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 25
discussion last time on even an air-conditioner, we had -- we had
looked at the 20-year payment of an 18 -- or an 8,000, and now an
air-conditioner is likely to cost you, for a 3-ton unit, probably
somewhere between 12- and 15,000. So that number's even going to
escalate higher. But payback, you had already replaced that
air-conditioner by the time that you got to the 20-year.
So the Board actually took a position where they said, "Listen,
we want these folks to have financial advice, whether it be through
their HOA or whether it be as a multifamily or commercial property."
They felt like there was better representation to look at PACE. And
we have had some PACE projects that have come forward.
Despite whatever program that they adopt, and whatever the
Senate Bill that was adopted with regards to contractor behavior,
Chapter 49 and 553 of the Florida Statute, it gives your behavior on
how a contractor will behave, how they will practice business. And
we will involve the State of Florida, because we're -- we're required
to in the event that we find fraud or malpractice.
But again, you do have a PACE program in place. I have not
spoken with the group here today. I'm happy to do it again. And I
would only encourage the Board as where -- Commissioner Hall, you
were absolutely dead right. And I think the conversation you may
want to have is with the property -- the Tax Collector on how those
PACE loans work.
But the gentleman was correct, is that you have your 12 months
of PACE loan payback on top of your property tax, and you can't
break that out. You can't just say, "Well, I want to pay my property
taxes. I don't have the money to pay PACE." The fact of the matter
is is that Stoneburner's office will only accept the payment of what
their TRIM notice is, and that would include that PACE -- that loan.
And then the Tax Collector then would transfer the payment received
on to PACE to repay that loan. And in the event that it doesn't, then
Page 35 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 26
that tax deed is sold.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I just wanted to follow
up. There was a comment made about a foreclosure in the event of a
default. Would you clarify that, please, for me. Do you foreclosure
on people if they don't pay their taxes?
MR. PETERSON: So the -- if the tax certificate -- if it goes to
tax certificate sale --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. PETERSON: -- and then eventually, yes, those can -- those
can be sold as -- or in default, right. But that is not something that we
do. That is something that happens as part of the County process.
But I will tell you, we've been doing a lot of research about this
particular issue, and we haven't run the numbers for Collier because
we didn't operate here for very long. And the gentleman was correct,
we have a -- you have a commercial PACE, so for commercial
properties. This is -- we're talking about residential today.
And I'll tell you that we have seen in several different counties --
and I'm happy to provide this information -- where properties that
have a PACE assessment are outperforming properties that don't have
PACE assessments in terms of tax certificate sales. We have a lower
rate of tax certificate sales with people that actually are getting PACE
assessments.
These are people that are trying to strengthen their properties.
They get the letter from their insurance company, and they need to
get a new roof. And this is -- this is the option that they have.
Sometimes they'll do this while they're going through the 90- to
120-day HELOC process and then turn around and pay it off because
we can get this a little bit quicker, right?
Page 36 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 27
So this is people that are -- that maybe they've had a financial
situation that affected their credit but yet they've been responsible
making their payments on their mortgage, they're making the
property tax payments, and they have equity in their property, and
they have the ability to repay, and so this is where PACE would come
into play.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Thank you.
MR. PETERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I appreciate that explanation.
I mean, we'll have further discussion if, in fact, this ordinance, in
fact, comes back through. But I wanted to clarify for Commissioner
Hall's sake, this indebted -- the security for this is a non-ad valorem
assessment attached to the tax bill and travels with the tax bill in the
event that a cert is issued because of the lack of payment. Then they
get their money when the cert is bought by the investor, and then it's
not an immediate foreclosure. There's a -- I believe, if I'm not
mistaken, there's a three-year process there for folks to get caught up
before the tax deed is sold.
MR. PETERSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So there's a lot more to it than
just an immediate foreclosure.
MR. PETERSON: We're happy to have any of those
discussions with staff. We stand at your ready. Thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Ms. Patterson, I think we're ready to move on.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Page 37 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 28
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 7, public comments.
MR. MILLER: We have two registered speakers at this time.
Your first speaker is Al Schantzen. He'll be followed by Alex
Ballina.
MR. SCHANTZEN: Good morning. Thank you for the
opportunity. Al Schantzen, for the record, citizen volunteer at DAS
and interim acting chair, DAS. And I know you have a lot of DAS
issues on the agenda today, but I'd like to relay one to you that I
request that we have a little more interdepartmental communications
when we're doing facility maintenance or facility changes or
improvements and updates.
I'm there seven days a week walking -- walking the dogs, mostly
dogs with behavioral problems. And we have contractors, vendors,
and different department heads coming and disrupting the entire
operation and shutting areas down, causing disruption. And this is
done without preplanning and/or on-site management or staff know
that it's happening.
The latest incident that brought me to the podium is that they put
new sod down, and they roped off everything except the sidewalks.
So the only place you can walk 230 dogs a day with their handlers is
on the sidewalk with incoming potential adopters and their kids and
their dogs.
So I'd really like to see if we can maybe coordinate a little bit
better and take those tapes down and give us a way to safely conduct
business.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Mr. French just
nodded his head that he understands what you've said, and it makes
great sense, so...
MR. SCHANTZEN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. SCHANTZEN: I'll see you one more time.
Page 38 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 29
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker under Item 7 is Alex Ballina.
MR. BALLINA: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Vice
Chairman, and members of the Board.
I wanted to take this opportunity to say thank you to the
innovative recommendations of staff in addressing the housing crisis
within our community with guidance of this board to ensure the
long-term viability of our community.
As we're aware, there are different approaches on how to slowly
address the needs of housing. We have to be pragmatic and
intentional with our actions to achieve some desirable outcomes for
our community.
I just wanted to say thank you. I look forward to being a
resource and working with you in providing housing solutions to
Collier County. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Item #11B
AUTHORIZE BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR THE
TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT
IN THE AMOUNT OF $30,569,589.41, TO ALLOCATE
INFRASTRUCTURE SALES SURTAX FUNDING TO BOTH THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXT PROJECT (#60168) AND
NEW GOLDEN GATE ESTATES BRIDGES PROJECT (#60212).
(JAY AHMAD, DIVISION DIRECTOR TRANSPORTATION
ENGINEERING) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL –
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we do have a 10 o'clock
Page 39 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 30
time-certain. Maybe we could knock out one of our regular agenda --
our 11 items between now and then. We do have 11B --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: -- which is -- should go quickly. Trinity.
That's a recommendation to authorize budget amendments for
Transportation Management Services department in the amount of
$30,569,589.41 to allocate infrastructure sales surtax funding to both
the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension project and new Golden Gate
Estates bridge project.
Mr. Jay Ahmad, your division director for Transportation
Engineering, is here to present or answer questions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Move for approval.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. Let's see if there's any discussion. Nobody's lit up here, so
I'm assuming there's no discussion. Call for a motion.
MR. AHMAD: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You made a motion.
MR. AHMAD: I have an update.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we do have a motion. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I made the motion for
approval.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It was seconded, okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I seconded.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
Page 40 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 31
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. AHMAD: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I have an update for Vanderbilt, if you wish to hear it, in five
minutes or so.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. AHMAD: That's your call.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's okay by me to hear it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure. Let's hear the update.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We get a lot of phone calls about
that, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I drove by it today. It looked
like there was traffic going on there.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He's been prepping all morning.
Let him talk.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You didn't tell me you had a
presentation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You have four and a half minutes
left now.
MR. AHMAD: Okay. So we got these items approved. Okay.
The Vanderbilt Beach Road, as you know, it's seven-mile starting at
Collier extending east for seven miles to 16th. It runs, as you can
see, on the -- on the photo.
The project from Collier to Wilson is about three lanes. It's
three lanes in each direction. From Wilson east to 16th, for two
miles, it's one lane in each direction.
So the project was awarded to Sacyr about three years ago for
$153 million. The project is tracking approximately 80 percent of
completion on time. It's on budget and within time.
I'm going to move fast so you can -- within the four minutes.
Page 41 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 32
What you see on the photos, these photos were taken this Saturday.
In the upper -- the photo is 16th, and the contractor, Sacyr, started at
16th and marched west to Collier for construction.
So as you could see, the two lanes, the one lane in each
direction, the bridge, even the fencing, some sod has been completed
from 16th now this picture going my way to -- past that bridge to
roughly 8th.
And now we're at 8th looking west toward Naples, and you can
see majority of the construction of the two lanes to Wilson is
complete. You know, some sodding, some fencing needs to be done,
but the majority of the construction is complete. The final lift of
asphalt is yet to be done.
Now we're at Wilson. The Wilson intersection still has a lot of
work to do, but west of Wilson, the pond sites, as you can see,
looking west, three lanes in each direction are constructed. The final
lift of asphalt yet to be done.
Now we're further west, west of Wilson, and as you can see, all
three lanes, even the sod, even some signs have been installed. The
pond sites are completed. The final lift of asphalt yet to be done.
You can see on the north side to the left of the photo the pathway --
the 10-foot, some areas 12 feet for bicycles have been constructed,
asphalt pathway.
Looking further in that direction, west from Wilson, you could
see the roadway between 10 and 12; 12th on the right side, on the
north side, and 10th on the south side. The roadway is centered
between 10 and 12. The roadway's completed with the exception,
again, of final paving. The pond sites are done. Curry Canal Bridge
is completed, which is right on top of Curry Canal.
You can see now the roadway curving to, roughly, away from
south of 10th and continuing west to Collier. You can see the curve
is completed. The pathway, sodding, pond sites, the bridge. We
Page 42 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 33
have three bridges within the project. They're all done.
Now we're on the curve continuing. And now we're about
15th Street, and 15th, 13th. You could see that the canal, about a
mile and a half of the canal that used to be on the north side now is
on the south side, almost 95 percent complete. There's some work
toward Massey, but the canal -- and some work -- all the drainage is
in the ground. Some utilities needed to be done in this section. And
as you could see, some paving is done but yet not complete.
Again, going further west from 15th, you could see some paving
done within that section. Old drainage. Of course, the pathway still
on the north side is not done. You could see the -- where the
contractor is doing some aggregates. Majority of the construction of
the project came from pond sites from the canal material, the rocks
and aggregates.
Now we're at Massey. Massey is roughly where I'm -- the photo
was taken. You could see the canal, that -- the new canal starting at
the beginning of the photo going east. We relocated, as a mentioned,
a mile and a half of canal -- Cypress canal that used to be on the north
side. That avoided acquisition from the golf course and from Gray
Hawk and other commercial property that would have been very
expensive. We used, in the design phase, that the canal be used, and
it gave us aggregates in addition to saving a lot of funds for
right-of-way acquisition.
You could see half of the roadway, it's -- all drainage is in.
Some curbing in. Half of the going eastbound lanes. There's some
work to be done. The majority of this work is these 66-inch pipes.
Most of it is done under -- there's some sections that remain.
Now part of project was Massey. Massey for -- from Tree Farm
south to Vanderbilt is -- was part of this project. And as you could
see, we expect the opening of Massey in October. So it's completed
two lanes, one lane in each direction. We had some -- Vanderbilt
Page 43 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 34
Country Club had a wall, as you recall, and the wall has been done.
All their site has been secured, and I think they're very pleased with
the outcome.
Now, at the end -- I think I'm within four minutes. Here I'm at
Collier looking west. Half of the roadway, the south half, is
completed. You see St. Agnes on the left. The majority of the
utilities and the curbing and lime rock and aggregate's all done all the
way to Massey, and we hope to -- the project's supposed to be
completed, per contract, in April 2026, next year, and there's some
days entitlement for the contractor due to weather and some utility
delays and so forth, so it may drag it for a month or two and after
that. We have -- we're going to come back with a change order for
that. But early summer, this project hopefully will be open to traffic.
And I'm open to questions if you have any. Sorry to have taken
some of your time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, thank you for the update.
Like I say, we do get a lot of questions about that, and it sounds like a
wonderful project, on time and on budget. We look forward to a
ribbon-cutting perhaps in June or July of next year.
No one's lit up, so I don't think there are any questions.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Am I not lit up?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm over here hitting my
button.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller's going to have to do
some repair work. You're recognized.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I
know we have a 10 o'clock time-certain.
I just want to share with my colleagues here. You know,
everything is intertwined as we go forward. My predecessor in this --
Commissioner Saunders knows about the -- what I'm about to talk
Page 44 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 35
about.
My predecessor in this seat chose to take this road segment off
the five-year CIE back in 2012 or so. And that's just how important
our MPO process is and the intertwining of what we're doing at the
MPO over here with what we're doing with capital projects.
Our GMP, our Growth Management Plan, triggered the
necessity for this road in 2006 for the population that had arrived by
2006, let alone those that came in the next 17 years before we were
able to actually consummate the construction.
And so my compliments are to staff. This is more than just a
transportation effort. This a -- this is a -- this is a stormwater feat
with regard to managing and how we're doing what we're doing with
our stormwater. So stand on the contractor. I want to do the
ribbon-cutting in April as is projected, and don't be talking to me
about any delays.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And let me ask one question for
clarification. Sales tax, we've already allocated 74 million of that
1 percent sales tax, and this will allocate another 30 million.
MR. AHMAD: 27.2, sir, will be reallocated to this project, and
that's a credit to your finances people in the County Manager's
Office. They -- there's some interest to the funds that was in surplus.
We went to the Surtax Committee. They validated that instead of
borrowing 27.2 million, we are -- with this item, we are actually
moving it to the project, not -- avoiding that interest to that loan, that
would have a loan.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. So the sales tax -- the
amount total contributed to this project from sales tax is how much,
then?
MR. AHMAD: Seventy-four plus 27.2, which you just
approved, yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So 90 -- actually --
Page 45 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 36
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 101.1.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: A hundred and one million or so.
MR. AHMAD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So two-thirds of this
project was sales tax?
MR. AHMAD: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the reason I mentioned that is
that was a very important referendum. I think it was in 2018 or --
2018 or -- yeah, 2018 when that was approved, and it generated about
$500 million for these types of projects. So very successful.
MR. AHMAD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you for that.
Ms. Patterson, are we ready for the 10 o'clock?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #11D
A FY 2025-2026 MARKETING FUND REQUEST TOTALING UP
TO $5,000,000 FROM RESERVES FOR ENHANCED TOURISM
MARKETING EFFORTS TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE,
AUTHORIZE ANY NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS,
AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ACTION PROMOTES
TOURISM. (JAY TUSA, DIVISION DIRECTOR - TOURISM)
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11D is our 10 o'clock time-certain.
This is a recommendation to approve an FY '25/'26 marketing fund
request totaling up to $5 million from reserves for enhanced tourism
marketing efforts to remain competitive, authorize any necessary
budget amendments, and make a finding that this action promotes
Page 46 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 37
tourism.
Mr. Jay Tusa, your division director of Tourism, is here to
present.
MR. TUSA: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. TUSA: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.
Pleasure to be here.
So I'm going to be presenting Item 11D. This request comes
from the Tourist Development Council which unanimously
recommended moving forward at their August meeting. There's been
some discussion over the past few months, kind of like it was last
year where the council started discussing the current climate in which
we're in from a visitation perspective, occupancy perspective for our
hotels.
And so they started the discussion of where we are presently.
And the situation's a little bit different this year than it was last year.
The dynamics changed a little bit. You know, economic times are a
little bit different now than they were last year. International is a
little bit, now, different now than it was last year.
So just a quick history on our $6 million base marketing budget.
So that's been kind of the constant, the norm, for the past six years,
since 2019. We did have a couple of dips there during the pandemic,
during and post COVID. And so I just kind of wanted to let you
know kind of where historically that number has been for marketing.
And so the Board, last year, you decided to give the CVB, the
Tourism department, an additional $5 million. And I'll kind of walk
you through that in the presentation so you can kind of see some of
the results that we're seeing, and we are seeing some good results
from that initial investment.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner Hall, you're lit
up here. Did you want to wait?
Page 47 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 38
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll wait till he's finished.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. TUSA: All right. As I mentioned last year, you approved
the supplemental investment, and it did work. Our FY '25 results
were driven by that initial investment. Leisure occupancy has
improved by 48.8 percent, up more than 3 percent from last year.
With the introduction of more than a thousand new rooms, we're
essentially playing catch-up. So as more rooms get introduced to the
market, we have to fill those rooms. We also have another 600
rooms coming online this year. So, you know, we have to be
constantly aware of these new rooms coming online and needing to
fill them.
What matters most is hotel stays, though. So that total number
of room nights sold was up more than 16 percent this year with
nearly every month showing double-digit growth. That growth has
been driven almost entirely by domestic visitors, up 3 percent, while
international visitation is down nearly 10 percent, and hotel stays
are -- group hotel stays are relatively flat, up just 1.6 percent.
I do want to pause for one moment and just kind of elaborate on
that 10 percent number for international visitation so you kind of get
an idea of what that number looks like.
So for first quarter of this year, we are presently at 14 percent of
what the international visitors represented in coming into the market.
So out of our 2.7 million visitors who come here to Collier County,
that was -- 14 percent of that number was our international visitors
coming to Collier County. So that's a big number.
Rolling along, kind of as things have progressed with kind of the
geopolitical climate and the situation with the economy, second
quarter, we were down 9.5 percent, and third quarter, we were down
22.7 percent for international visitation.
So when you look at that, that means our new number of where
Page 48 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 39
we're currently resting is about 10 percent of international visitors
coming in from other parts of the world coming into Collier County.
So that's that reduction from 14 percent to 10 percent.
And just so you know, that's about 100,000 people, so that's
quite a big number. So we're trying to find where we can find the
difference. You know, whether that's leisure visitors or group
business that's coming into Collier County to make up that loss. So
that's one thing with -- the money that you gave us last year really
helped us with an investment to kind of make up that delta.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Are you able to determine which
countries the tourism is down? So for example, what is the
percentage down for Canadian tourists?
MR. TUSA: So Canadian's down pretty significantly, and then
UK is also down. Germany is -- actually have some good numbers
right now. I don't have the number in front of me, though, so -- but I
can certainly get that for you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I would be curious as to how --
what it's looking like with our Canadian visitors.
MR. TUSA: Well, as we talk, Sandra, can you pull that for me?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner McDaniel, did
you want to chat now or --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll wait till he's done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. TUSA: Let's see. So I have it right here. I'm sorry. It's
hard to follow on this phone.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can just provide that to me
later.
MR. TUSA: Yeah. So -- I have it right here.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh.
MR. TUSA: So Canada is down 1.6 percent, which I have to
question that, and then Europe is down 12 percent, and the UK is
Page 49 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 40
down 19 percent.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
MR. TUSA: Germany is up almost 5 percent. So Germany's
doing very well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Check on that 1.6 percent. That
does sound --
MR. TUSA: Yeah, that does sound off to me, but that's what
this says. But I can check on that number and verify it.
So anyway, so I just kind of wanted to illustrate kind of where
we are with international. I think that helps paint a broader picture
for the Board in helping you make an informed decision.
So at the same time, you know, as we're operating in the
conditions we're operating in, you know, obviously, these dynamics
are beyond our control, but they reinforce why continued competitive
marking investment is so important at this time.
A second round of supplemental investment will help Collier
County remain competitive, protect market share, and build on the
success of the initial round.
I'm going to walk you through a few slides. Okay. The first
one's already up. So our competitors are increasing their marketing
budgets while Collier's has, like I said earlier, remained flat since
about 2019. At the same time, new hotels and vacation rentals are
adding more supply to the market. Without sufficient investment to
keep demand strong, that added supply puts pressure on occupancy
and rates. Both peak and shoulder seasons are vulnerable if we don't
maintain visibility.
And then this is a slide. You know, it compares the other
destinations in our competitive set. So you can kind of see where
Collier is pacing here. We spend about 12.35 percent of TDT on
marketing, which places us last in the competitive set by comparison.
The average across the set is nearly 38 percent with some spending as
Page 50 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 41
high as 75 percent.
More than a thousand new hotel rooms have already been added,
like I mentioned, with another 600 scheduled to come on, all of
which means that we need strong demand to sustain occupancy and
rates.
So this slide and the next slide represent the difference between
best- and worst-case scenarios. Even the best case, without new
funds, growth is modest and visibility will begin to stall. The worst
case is oversupply, too many rooms, and not enough demand. That
scenario pushes down occupancy rates, and recoveries from that type
of decline take longer and cost more. Additional investment gives us
the opportunity to sustain growth and avoid the challenges that come
from -- come with falling behind.
So this plan is data-driven, scalable, and responsive to TDT --
TDC priorities. The focus is on sustaining growth, expanding reach,
and supporting both group and leisure business. This is not spending
for the sake of sending. It's a strategic investment designed to keep
Collier competitive.
So this is a slide that shows you last year's supplemental
investment delivered measurable results. Transient demand increased
by 15 percent. Every dollar spent returned about $14.50. Bed tax
collections reached nearly $43 million through July, more than
1.1 million for the same time last year. These results show that the
original investment worked.
This year's plan builds on last year's momentum. We will
expand in top-performing markets such as Boston; Philadelphia;
Dallas; Washington, D.C.; and Minneapolis. We are strengthening
digital and sales efforts and use media partnerships that align with
our brand and our target audience. The plan is designed to capture
more of the visitors who deliver the greatest impact. And with RSW
continuing to add flights, there is a strong opportunity to take
Page 51 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 42
advantage of new access to our destination.
Tourism is Collier County's largest industry, supporting
approximately 29,000 jobs and generating more than $2.8 billion in
direct economic impact annually. The supplemental funds you
approved last year helped drive nearly 43 million in tourist
development tax collections through July, more than 1.1 million
ahead of last year; however, we're beginning to see signs of slowing.
Group hotel demand, which grew nearly 9 percent in the first half of
the year, has now slipped into decline.
As I mentioned earlier, international visitation remains nearly
10 percent below last year, which forecasts suggests will not fully
recover for some time.
With more hotel rooms continuing to come online and
competitors spending aggressively, a renewed reinvestment will help
maintain momentum and help keep Collier County competitive.
For these reasons, the Tourist Development Council consider
multiple investment options at 2.5 million, 4 million, and $5 million,
and unanimously recommended the $5 million level as the one they
thought would best sustain our momentum. That's the proposal
before you here today, and I can certainly relay the components of
each one of those options if you'd like.
And then also to add, I have Barbara Karasek here, chief
marketing officer and co-owner of Paradise Advertising, should you
have any questions that you'd like to direct towards Paradise.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
Jay, thank you. You did a great job of pitching us on that. This
was -- had I had been at the TDC meeting, this would not have been
unanimous. I would have definitely voted not against -- I would have
voted no. Not "no" for the 5 million extra. I would have just voted
no right now.
Page 52 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 43
Last year we gave -- we had a $5 million supplemental
advertising gift that we put into the TDC to let America know that we
were open after the season of storms, and that was effective. We did
that.
The attitude seems to be if we have it, let's spend it. And I say if
we have it, let's spend it when we need it.
And the 5 million, like I said, was to let the country know it's -- I
heard Mr. Tusa say about five different times about the extra rooms,
the thousand extra rooms. And I don't think that that's our
responsibility to fill those rooms. That's a market condition. I mean,
if it was, then they'll be building rooms right and left, right and left,
banking on our dollars to fill them.
And I'm not opposed to the $5 million. I'm not opposed to
throwing some extra advertising in there. You know, it has to be
effective at some level. There was a staggered approach for some
lesser amounts now.
And this is a pretty easy act. It's a pretty easy thing to act on if
we need it. Sure, our numbers are up in the first half of the year. It's
season. Sure, the Canadians aren't coming down. It's hot down here.
It's not up there. There's just some common-sense things that are in
play.
But if you ask an insurance salesman, "Do I need insurance?"
The answer's always yes. If you ask the Tourism department if we
need to spend money in advertising, the answer is always yes.
You know, I -- I'm all about TDT funds going for capital
infrastructure, going for things that benefit the beaches. We're going
to give $18 million. Later on we're probably -- we're going to look at
giving 18 million to the City for the pier, a 10 million grant for the
outfall project. These are all TDT funds. Five and a half million
dollars to Coastal Zoning to correct the beaches, and these are what I
like to spend TDT money on. Just to throw it against the advertising
Page 53 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 44
wall and watch a lot of it fall off and some of it stick, I'm really not a
proponent of that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Jay, would you go
back a couple of slides to show a comparison with our community
and the other communities that are spending those monies?
MR. TUSA: Happy to, sir. There you go.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I found it interesting when I
was looking at this slide -- because you mentioned earlier in your
presentation that our annual spend has been $6 million a year. You
didn't show the extra five that we bequeathed last year in this slide.
MR. TUSA: And the reason why we didn't do that is because,
as of current, our budget is for the new year. It's $6 million. So that's
why it's based on that, so -- but, I mean --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Didn't we bequeath an
additional five million for the upcoming year?
MR. TUSA: No, that's what we're talking about today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I was under the
impression that we had approved a $5 million spend over and above
the annual that we did last year.
MR. TUSA: Yeah. So that was for last year.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That was in November of last year.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And that's what's coming forth
today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And it doesn't show up in here
in our annual spend, and that -- and so I found that -- I found that
curious, number one.
Number two, I agree 100 percent with what Commissioner Hall
had to say. I want to see more efficacy out of our advertising. I
served on the TDC quite some time ago. I'm not arguing that
Page 54 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 45
advertising is important, but the results coming back are nebulous at
best.
It's hard for me to discern whether we're spending money and
actually receiving a rate of return. And I don't know how that can
actually be done. I agree 100 percent that it is not our job to fill those
hotel rooms. I believe that ADRs are determined by the marketplace,
and the availability of rooms that are out there will ultimately
determine the ADRs.
I think we need to focus our energies on the offseason
advertising. That is where we suffer the largest. And when you're
looking at these numbers, they all balance out over a period of time,
including season and offseason. And so I think we really need to
focus our energies on our off-season advertising.
Looking at visitors from Europe and other countries with other
monetary values adds another factor into the overall visitation rate. I
mean, when the dollar's strong, they're less inclined because their
value of their currency is not comparative to what America has with
regard to the -- with regard to the value of their dollar in comparison.
I don't know the answer to my main issue with regard to the
efficacy. I know on a local basis if you want to advertise with a
magazine -- I know I used to do it back in the real estate business
days and give a coupon that comes along with that advertisement,
then I have a tracking mechanism to see who's reading my ads, who's
actually participating in that process.
But I'm having trouble -- I'm having trouble with throwing more
money at the advertising wall, as it was called, and claiming that
that's going to be the savior. I'm having trouble with it.
MR. TUSA: So if I could, if it would please the Board, I could
have Barbara Karasek come up and address Commissioner
McDaniel's concern about the advertising effect in this. Barbara is
the expert on that. She can certainly address that for you if you'd like
Page 55 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 46
to kind of have her come up briefly and explain that a little bit for
you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: As she's coming up, because I
think it's important to at least hear that, I come -- I agree with a lot of
what has been said by Commissioner Hall and Commissioner
McDaniel, but I come to a different conclusion based on everything
I've heard. I agree that we need to build projects. We need to build
infrastructure to support the industry. Beach renourishment and the
city pier and all of those things are important.
But this is a tax on the industry. It's specifically targeted to the
tourism industry. They're the ones that are collecting it, and their
guests are the ones that are paying it. And the mission is to ensure
that that tourist industry that's collecting these taxes continues to be
viable and profitable.
And so I support the additional $5 million going forward
because I certainly recognize that we live in a wonderful place.
There's nothing you can say other than Collier County is a bubble in a
lot of ways. It's a beautiful community, a lot of amenities. Tourists
want to come here. But it's a competitive market, and it's a big world.
And if we don't stay competitive, if we don't put the word out
continuously -- because people have a very short memory. You
know, we're all looking at different advertisements for different
vacations and things like that. We're constantly doing that. It's true
of the rest of the world. And so we need to stay on top of that. And I
agree that once you lose that market, it's hard to get it back.
So I'm going to support this today. I believe that it's the right
thing to do. I'm going to trust the industry that is collecting these
dollars, and they're collecting it really for the industry. That's why it
was set up.
If there's some additional information, that would be helpful.
And then Commissioner LoCastro, when she's finished.
Page 56 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 47
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, I want to -- I want to
say something that might help you, or at least I want to hear a little
bit of this in your answer, because a few statements have been made,
but you guys haven't had a chance to rebut or, Jay, I don't mean to say
your answer was thin, but it wasn't as strong as I would have liked to
hear it for me to feel comfortable, you know, moving forward with
the five million.
But it was said, "Don't spend the money when you have it.
Spend it when you need it." So I want to hear your rebuttal to that,
because the piece of tourism that I'm familiar with, when you need it,
a lot of times it's too late. You're trying to stay ahead of the wave.
It's the same thing in real estate. You know, you don't wait until the
market crashes and then everybody sort of, says, "Oh, my God."
You're trying to be proactive.
So I'm not trying to answer the question for you, but I think
that's buried in the answer a little bit, and for me to feel comfortable
with this, I want to hear what proactive measures we're doing and
why we don't want to wait. Or do we want to wait? There may be
merit to that. Maybe we need to wait. Maybe we're fine just now.
You've got the money there.
The other thing I always say when we talk about these -- TDT
money is we're not giving you anything. You're asking for
permission to spend money that's in your account already. And like
Commissioner Saunders said, this is money that accumulates for this
very thing. You just need our permission to write the check. So it's
not like we're taking money out of an account here. And now -- in
the past we've taken some latitude to use this money, you know, for
different things, but sometimes it's sort of implied, like, we're
handing you $5 million where you've already collected that money
and collected it in a way, exactly as Commissioner Saunders said, for
these very things, but you need our permission to be able to write the
Page 57 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 48
check. But spend it when you have it, you know, or spend it when
you need it.
And then the offseason spending, I hear what Commissioner
McDaniel is saying. I'd like to know what level of value you think
that is, because I do see us spending marketing dollars in the
offseason to prepare for season, but I'd like to hear a little bit more
detail in, hey, if you got the $5 million today, how do you plan to sort
of prioritize that spending to get biggest bang for the buck.
MR. TUSA: Okay. Well, thank you, Commissioner LoCastro.
I appreciate the opportunity to answer that question.
So I'll speak briefly a little bit about some of that, then I'll turn it
over to Barbara, and she can speak about some of that as well.
But -- so as far as the process and where we are and the needing
of the additional dollars, so what we've been watching over the past
six, nine months in the market is definitely some softening, and so we
want to make sure that the initial investment that the Board gave us
last year, that we continue that momentum and we continue to be able
to drive visitation and fill up the hotel rooms.
Now, we talk a lot about hotel rooms, but obviously there's a
bigger picture here for economic impact and what that means to all
tourism-related businesses in Collier County. So it's not just a matter
of saying, "Hey, we're going to fill up this hotel room," but it's what
restaurants are people going to go eat at? What shops are they going
to go to? What attractions are they going to go to?
So we want to make sure that we're representing the entire
tourism industry by what we do. And so -- but by nature, people
come here for a trip. So the first thing they're going to do is book a
hotel room. So that's why we focus a lot on hotels in our discussions,
but that's not the overall goal. The overall goal was to bring a visitor
to Collier County so they can spend their money and make economic
impact for our community. So that's the first thing I think I want to
Page 58 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 49
say about the clarity of what we're doing and why we're doing it.
So as we're looking at these trends over the past six, nine
months, you know, we're watching these numbers, and they're
definitely softening, flattening out. And so we want to make sure that
we are on top of our game from a visitation perspective. So that's
making sure we're competitive with our competitive set, because as
you can see in these numbers, our competitive set, they're definitely
outspending us. And even if you bump us up, to the point
Commissioner McDaniel made just a little bit earlier, to the
$11 million, then that moves us basically up one spot. And so that's
still not that great, but with those dollars -- as demonstrated just a few
minutes ago in the presentation, those dollars can be effective.
So do we need to spend $75 million? Absolutely not. But do
we need to spend more than the $6 million that we're presently
spending? Yeah, probably.
Now, whether that's a determination if the Board wants to
consider a lesser amount for supplemental, that's certainly a
conversation we can have because there are options that were
presented to the Tourist Development Council, so that is something
that the Board can consider as well. If you don't want to spend $5
million, we have two other options for your consideration.
So with that, I think I'll turn it over to Barbara, and I think she
can answer some of your questions as well, Commissioner LoCastro.
MS. KARASEK: Good morning. Barbara Karasek, co-owner
and chief marketing officer of Paradise.
So to answer the questions of, you know, efficacy, you know,
when we were blessed with the additional funds this past fiscal year,
we were able to actually spend that, starting in January of 2025,
through middle to late August. And what that did is it focused on the
shoulder season and the summer season, which is exactly when we
needed to focus on that. So focusing on what we call the offseason or
Page 59 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 50
what was commented on the offseason was a very strategic decision
for us in addition to what our annual marketing plan was.
Furthermore, regarding the efficacy, you know, we have a
fiduciary responsibility to invest these dollars. It's an investment
with a return. And on that additional supplemental dollars, we were
able to garner that 14-to-1 return.
How did we do that? The lion's share of those dollars, in our
expertise, is digital. And what we do with the digital is we're able to
behaviorally track visitors who see the ads or don't. We measure all
of our media, and we do that in a couple of different ways. That
additional supplemental dollars was focused on Expedia, which is
tracking people in booking. It's also on TripAdvisor, Kayak, and
then a programmatic media platform.
The beauty of that is is we're able to, in the digital space,
identify individuals who actually physically show up. So we're not
probabilistic, but we're deterministic. We know when those visitors
show up in our county because their mobile device or their credit card
is swiped here. So that is how you do it.
Like you said, in other types of brick-and-mortar locations, this
is how we do it in grocery and retail, right? We know that they show
up. We know that they came from more than 50 miles, and we know
that they spent the night here because they stayed here more than 24
hours. That is the beauty of the digital marketing that we're doing.
It's very, very targeted.
And you asked, what would we do with these dollars? Well, as
Mr. Tusa said, we would be very strategic. We're not just going to
throw it to a wall and make it stick. That's not what we do, and nor
have we done that with the dollars from the prior fiscal year or the
other prior fiscal years.
The beauty of what you see here with our competitive spending,
if those other destinations received supplemental dollars, that ceiling
Page 60 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 51
became the floor for the following year. So if we are very fortunate
to have additional dollars, I can tell you this, we're going to fish
where there's fish. We're going to continue to focus on the markets
that Mr. Tusa mentioned, to bring people back that are familiar with
our destination, lower funnel, getting them here, and by darned, we're
going to track every person that comes in, what they spend, where
they came from, and continually to mine that data to continue to find
those deterministic visitors to come.
And yes, while ADR is set by properties, it's also about who
you're targeting to come. Can they afford it? What's our ideal
visitor? Not just that they can afford the higher ADR, but we also
want them to spend in market. Don't stay at the high property and
then not spend in market. That doesn't help our jobs or our
businesses or the economic impact that tourism brings to the
destination. So it's twofold.
We have our annual plan. Yes, we will be excellent stewards of
those dollars, get the best return that we can for that six million. But
the momentum that we've built from January to August, that faucet
completely turns off if we don't reengage back in January to focus
exactly what we just did this past year and do it better.
And the bar is set at 14-to-1. And our goal is to increase that
14-to-1 next year if we were able to do that. We look at thing -- as
Commissioner LoCastro knows, it's about dollars and cents, and it's
math. And we love that challenge that you've set, but we challenge
ourselves with that every day in our industry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a question for her,
unless you're -- I don't mean to jump, but I didn't want her to run off.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Page 61 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 52
COMMISSIONER HALL: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, she's not going to run away.
But go ahead, ask your question.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Approximately what's the lag
time from the time the dollar is spent till it's -- till we're seeing the
results, or you're seeing the results?
MS. KARASEK: That's such a great question. So we track the
booking windows. So from the time that visitors or consumers see
the ad to the time that they book, it depends on the platform and it
also depends on time of year.
After the pandemic, we were seeing very -- longer booking
windows. Now we're seeing shorter booking windows, which is
actually really good. So we're knowing that we're converting them.
It can range depending upon the platform, and we track the booking
windows on every media tactic or advertising tactic that we have.
Our average booking window right now is less than 30 days. So
people are coming within 30 days of seeing the ad or making that
purchase decision to come. Now, sometimes they cancel or rebook,
and that's why we always do a 45- to 90-day look-back as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
MS. KARASEK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And don't run away.
MS. KARASEK: No, I was just going to -- just in case.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just have a seat.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Barbara, thank you. Thank you.
That was a good job.
I mean, obviously Paradise knows what they're doing when it
comes to advertising. We have a budgeted amount for advertising of
$6 million. So I would like to see all of this targeted stuff happen
with the original budgeted amount. And it doesn't just go away if we
don't supplement, if we don't throw an additional five million in
Page 62 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 53
there. Maybe we need to change our timing with the original money
to keep those targets, to keep those.
We're getting -- Naples -- Commissioner Saunders said it the
best. It's an amazing place to come. There's people that we don't
have to talk into coming here. They come year after year because it's
a -- it's paradise. But we act like if we don't spend all of this money,
they're not going to come.
I totally agree that we need to target the markets. I love the fact
that we targeted some different -- we targeted some -- Dallas, Fort
Worth. We targeted some West Coast stuff. We targeted some
Denver properties. I love that. I think that's -- I think that's smart.
To answer the question if we need it is not just -- I'm not stupid
enough to just wait and be in this big -- this big tourism hole and,
"Oh, I guess we better advertise now." We're smart enough to know.
We just got through hearing the answer, we know within 30 days if
we have the bookings. We can react very quickly to the advertising
world.
And yes, it is tourism money, and, yes, it is generated, but it
doesn't mean that we don't need to be good stewards with it and put
some serious thought into it. We're almost doubling the budget for
advertising.
A thousand rooms. VRBOs weren't even mentioned. I mean,
that's -- there's -- VRBOs are competing with those hotel rooms.
So I'm thinking -- I'm not opposed to advertising. I want to
make that very clear. I just want to do it smart, and I don't want to
just assume if we don't throw five million extra money at it right now
that we're going -- the faucet's going to shut off. Maybe we need to
change the target to keep the faucet open.
Offseason is always offseason. We've got Paradise Sports
Complex. We're going to start having some baseball fields. We're
going to start having some people. That's going to drive tourism.
Page 63 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 54
We spend money for actual events. Football University, it's an
actual event. We have hard data what that produces. That's all I'm
saying. I'm just saying instead of making a hasty decision trying to
decide today at 10:30 that we need to throw $5 million of extra
money to the advertising thing, I think that there's some extra thought
and some extra considerations that need to happen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Everybody's lit up here.
So, Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
All right. Just for my clarity -- because I know Commissioner
McDaniel had mentioned it. So when I'm looking at this chart, the
six million, that was our budgeted six million. We did approve for
physical [sic] year '24/'25 -- and I think mentioned, we started
spending the additional five million this past January. So our true
number is 11 million --
MR. TUSA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- not the -- and even like you
said, it puts us -- bumps us this one space on spend.
And I try to simplify things in my mind when I look at this, and
I just think of a circle, right? Because I can pie-chart it and say the
center of the circle is this pile of money that visitors give us. And it's
kind of like a circle because everything we do comes back around
with this money that we collect from visitors. And, like, I'm very --
listen, we've got a project coming up that's in my district. Very
important, I believe, is the $10 million for the outfall project for the
beaches.
Over time it's going to save us money because we're not going to
have to pile sand over these old outfalls bridge them while we're
doing our work on an annual basis and stuff. There's just -- over time
it's going to just -- it's going to be beneficial overall, you know, and
unsightly, too, because we're going to get rid of these old pipes
Page 64 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 55
sticking out of the ground.
But where I'm going with this is I look at this chart -- I'm a very
competitive person by nature. I don't know if you guys know that.
But I look at Hillsborough, and this is -- it's kind of wondering,
because Hillsborough spent 11 million 300, right? So they're only
$300,000 more than we spent. They did 65-. And in my mind I'm
thinking, well, that seems weird because you have a Tampa Bay
Buccaneers professional football team, you have Tampa Bay
Lightning who, in the last six years, either have been in the Stanley
Cup playoffs or in the Stanley Cup three of those years.
And I'm just thinking, how did they not beat Palm Beach County
with that type? Because Palm Beach County has no professional
teams, none of those type of things. And so me, I'm trying to
wonder, what are they doing better than Hillsborough? What's going
on? Because Hillsborough, by nature, should be kicking everybody's
butt just by having those large professional markets year-round.
MR. TUSA: I agree with you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: In the winter and the summer.
MR. TUSA: But rate drives a lot of that. I mean, where we are,
and our stature in the state, I mean, a lot of that is driven by rate and
ADR. I mean, we're fortunate to have that. I mean, because some
destinations don't have that.
So obviously, when you're charging that higher rate, then you
see numbers like you see for the Palm Beaches.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. Okay.
So my thing is to have the money to spend on these projects that
are the good infrastructure projects that we know are definitely
tourism related, the circle has to work. So we have to -- it doesn't
work if the people are -- we diminish the number of people coming
through however way we go. We need to have a team and the team
work together on always keeping that circle fulfilled to keep each
Page 65 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 56
part of that circle, or that pie, that circle operating where we would be
satisfied at operating at.
I'm trying to clarify my mind or make it simple, is just saying,
you know, the team works together, and if one part of the team thinks
this is going to get us closer to the goal, then I think we should
support that. And that's just my feeling.
And it's not our taxpayers' money. These are our visitors'
money. And if you don't have the visitors, we don't collect the
money. And if we don't collect the money, we don't have the
10 million for the outfall. We don't have the -- whatever, 3.5 for the
pier, and whatever other things that may come up that we have no
control over because of Mother Nature and things like that.
We're going to have something about the dredging on the Marco
project, which we're fighting up against Mother Nature on an annual
basis with these -- the way the sands come in and the drifts -- or the
level of water, the shallowness around some of these islands.
So, you know, if we don't have the visitors, we don't have the
ability to fix those things. And if we don't have the ability to fix
those things and maintain them, we don't have visitors. So it's a full
circle to me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're lit up again.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Jay, I'm not here to do your
homework for you, okay, but trying to contact the dots in my own
head. First thing I'll just say a statement "Naples is paradise," I agree
with Commissioner Hall.
But I visited all these places, and we all probably have on this
chart; they're all paradise. I just came back from Jacksonville.
Maybe it's a little different than Naples, but I had a great time there.
That place is awesome as well.
Page 66 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 57
So, you know, I don't think Naples just sells itself. I don't know
if we need five million. That's what we're here to decide. But I
certainly don't think just, you know, stamping Naples on something
means that people, you know, come through the door.
One of the things I don't think you've touched on enough -- and
like I said, I'm not here to do your homework for you, but it's not
about just heads in beds. So if we have a thousand less beds at --
heads in beds at the JW Marriott, you started to sort of connect that
and say, you know, "Then those people aren't here to go to
restaurants. They're not here to buy gasoline."
But the other part, too, is I'm wondering if you've got any kind
of feedback from our employers in the area that say, "Wow, you
know, occupancy rates are down. We've laid off housekeepers. We
don't have as many dishwashers. We have less people working our
valet parking. We've cut hours on quite a few people."
I mean, I can tell you on Marco Island, the answer to all that is
yes, and a lot of those employees that no longer have jobs, guess
where they went. A lot of them have gone to Hillsborough County,
Tampa, Sanibel Island, a lot of other places.
So we're losing some of that workforce to some of the other
places that also consider themselves paradise, or am I wrong? I'm not
trying to, like I said, do your homework for you, but I want to hear a
little bit about, you're in this every day. What are you hearing from
employers as far as, you know, they can't keep staff on if their
occupancy rate is 68 percent? So has that been an issue or has that
been talked about? I'm no longer chair of the TDC. Has that been
something that's been discussed, the workforce?
MR. TUSA: Yeah. So, yes, sir. So that has been discussed
over the past few months, you know, at the TDC meetings and then
amongst, you know, staff and the agencies, you know, kind of where
things currently stand, talking to our partners.
Page 67 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 58
And it was interesting when you made your initial comment
about that, we have quite a few hoteliers in the room, and they were
nodding their heads in agreement with you as you were saying those
things. So -- and I'm sure they're going to want to speak in a few
minutes when they have the opportunity to, so you can certainly hear
it directly from them.
But that is a theme that we've heard, you know, especially this
past summer, that we have businesses and restaurants closing. We
had them scaling back their hours, laying people off. So that is a
concern of something that is happening presently in Collier County.
So that is the underlining [sic] reason of why we want to do
what we want to do, is to have an influx of dollars to support the
marketing efforts to bring people in and support those jobs and those
businesses.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. And I'll just say, I don't
want to throw $5 million against the wall to just keep people
employed. But the people automatically stay employed if there's
heads in beds. So it all gets tied together.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, how many registered
speakers do we have?
MR. MILLER: Five.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, we've
got five speakers. Why don't we -- why don't we start that, unless
you've got something --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Profound to say? Don't I
always have something profound to say?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, I was getting ready -- I was
going to modify that by saying unless you've got something to say
that we all want to hear.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I used to own a hotel.
Page 68 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 59
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He is the Chair, so I'm going
to go nice.
I'm -- we can -- if you want, I'll hold my comments till after the
public speakers. I'll be fine to do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Because we're going
to -- we're going to have to take a break here in just a minute.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We can do that now, if you
want to.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We could, but I thought we might
be able to get through this, because we've all -- I think we all know
where we're heading with this. I'm going to make a motion at some
point to approve the $5 million for the supplemental spending.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on that note, that was
going to necessarily be my comment.
I don't think any of us up here right now are arguing whether or
not this request is going to go through. What I'm hearing is efficacy
and transparency and accountability. Tangible value for the dollars
that are expended.
What I heard from you earlier was a misnomer. This advertising
six million, and then you didn't count the additional five that we, in
fact, put in. What I heard from you earlier -- and you didn't report the
extra five in here -- was your numbers are actually trickling down
even though we have thrown -- we have invested these additional
funds back into the advertising on that standpoint.
Nobody up here argues the necessity of ancillary dollars. We all
saw that during the construction of the Great Wolf Lodge and the 600
contractors -- or construction workers that were in there.
We all saw that Paradise Coast when FBU shows up in town; all
the restaurants up and down 951 are booming. So no one argues the
necessity of the ancillary dollars.
What I want to see is accountability. And you get that through
Page 69 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 60
transparency, and that's the only way that we're ultimately going to be
able to make the economic decision viably without throwing these
things at you from an accountability standpoint.
MR. TUSA: If I could respond to that, Commissioner. So as far
as the numbers, you know, I want to be very transparent in that, is,
you know, some of the numbers are up and some of the numbers are
down. And so when you look at big picture, it can be a little
confusing to some.
And so, you know, our numbers -- some of our numbers are up
but, by, international group business, those are down. But some of
our other numbers are up enough that they're helping compensate for
those lower numbers.
And so I think that's one reason why we probably need to keep
our foot on the accelerator pedal is to make up that difference, that
delta that we're having from those segments that are down.
And so I hope that I've relayed that to the Board, that you
understand the situation we're in. And if you didn't understand that
earlier, then my apologies. I probably didn't explain it the right way.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's get to the public
speakers. But as we call the speakers, I'm going to make a motion to
approve the supplemental at five million.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the reason I'm making that
motion is -- I've said it earlier. I want to repeat a couple things. We
do need to build some infrastructure. And I was really pleased to
hear comments concerning the need to build up our summertime
visitation, because we're going to be talking about that. I was really
pleased to hear about the discussion about the facilities and bringing
baseball and softball here in the summertime. Those are the types of
things that will generate a lot of tourism in the offseason, but those
are things that are several years down the road. We may approve --
Page 70 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 61
we may get an approval by the voters in November of next year to
approve a one-cent increase in the tourist tax, and we may vote to
build softball and baseball fields, but it will take some time to get
those in place.
And so that's why I'm making this motion, that I think that it's
important to keep the pedal to the metal here and to continue
advertising in this market. We're seeing it -- we're seeing downturns
everywhere, and I think we have to respond to it.
There is a motion and a second. We do have public comment.
So let's go ahead and run through the comment. If you're supportive
of the motion, if you would just simple say you support that. If you
are opposed to it, then we'd want to hear what you have to say. I
certainly would want to hear what you have to say.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I just make a comment? I
mean, I think the people that are supportive -- I mean, the fact that,
you know, we have senior executives here that took the time to come.
I'm solid in my second, but I also think it's important for you-all to go
on the record and explain and not just go, "Yay, great. We got the
money," or what have you. We're not -- we don't all attend the TDC,
and neither do the citizens who watch this -- are watching right now.
So I think it's important for you guys to go on the record and tell
us why you agree with the motion that we're making up here. And
maybe some of the details that maybe Jay might have missed or some
things you're seeing in your -- you know, in businesses that -- that we
need to know about and that the public need to know about.
So I would just say that. It's totally up to you if you want to use
your three minutes, but I think it could be very valuable for us to hear
what you have to say, make us feel even better about our motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's go to the public
Page 71 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 62
comment. And if there's some staff folks that want to come on up to
address Commissioner LoCastro's comments, let's do that as well.
MR. MILLER: Your first -- I'm going to ask the speakers to
queue up at both podiums for the sake of time.
Your first speaker is Elysia Dawn, and she'll be followed by
Hyla Crane.
MS. DAWN: Hello. And I want to say, first of all, a big thank
you. As he said, my name is Elysia Dawn, and I'm the CEO of
United Arts Collier, a local arts agency.
I do want to thank you for your service and your time today and
also for signing your letter of support that I brought up to Tallahassee
in support of the arts. We were thrilled to see our leadership return to
funding the arts this year.
That said, unfortunately, only four out of our 14 arts
organizations in Collier County received funding, so we really could
benefit from some additional spending here that would be beneficial
for our arts and for our community.
I've shared this before with most of you, but I want to reiterate
that the non-profit art sector in Collier County, not including our
for-profit friends, just non-profit arts and culture generates
147 million in economic activity and 29.4 million in tax revenue
annually.
When it comes to tourism, our studies show that 30 percent of
arts attendees were nonlocal. Of that 30 percent, 45 percent said the
arts are the primary purpose of their visit. And what does that do for
us? According to the Department of State's website, it states that,
quote, "Cultural tourists represent a market to be tapped to generate
new audiences and new income." That speaks to that efficacy part,
you know, getting that bang for the buck here.
And they further state that they spend -- arts and cultural tourists
spend 60 percent more per trip than those that do not take part in
Page 72 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 63
cultural activities. These visitors also stay longer and take more trips
per year. So, really, you know, pressing that bang for the buck here.
We saw in the data that there -- that we were below some of our
competitors. We really want to make sure that we stay competitive
and appreciate your desire to do so as well. In the non-profit world,
we know that donor retention is really important and that it's more
cost effective to retain than to bring back a lapsed donor, which can
cost five to 10 times more than retaining a donor. I think that would
apply similarly here, and I'm sure we have some of the data to
support that.
Also, thinking about that return on investment, that 14-to-1 to
me sounds pretty good. I'd like to see that on all my investments.
But when we think about that return, it's not -- certainly not about just
promoting the arts but including the arts as part of a balanced
approach to promoting what's wonderful about this place.
So I just want to take a moment to say thank you very much for
very seriously considering this and -- for a way to strengthen our
economy with the arts and all of the amazing offerings that we have
here in Collier County. Thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me ask our reporter here, do
you want us to finish this, or do you need to take a break right now?
THE COURT REPORTER: You can finish.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Let's go ahead with the next
speakers.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Hyla Crane. She'll be
followed by Chris Lopez.
MS. CRANE: Good morning -- good morning, esteemed
commissioners. My name is Hyla Crane, and I'm the executive
director at Marco Island Center for the Arts and the Arts Center
Theater.
I attended the last TDC meeting because the county marketing
Page 73 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 64
serves as a voice for all tourism. And as a smaller organization with
a limited marketing budget, we rely on these marketing efforts, and
we're grateful for what's been provided, and we see those results.
This summer we did see that decline in attendance. We had
three European visitors. This is unprecedented. One from Spain and
a German nanny and her charge. We keep a guest book, so that's
how we track it. We're sort of old school.
I agree with what has been said, that Collier is the most beautiful
place, and we should shine the light on it and certainly not less of a
light than competitive markets, because Collier isn't the only place,
and you can't wait for it to be late.
Obviously, I stand in support of this motion. Thank you all for
your time and attention.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Chris Lopez. He'll be
followed by Sharon Lockwood.
MR. LOPEZ: Good morning, Chairman, Commissioners, Chris
Lopez on behalf of Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association here
in Collier County. Thank you for this robust dialogue. I think it's
tremendously important. We vet some of these issues, some of these
concerns and understand where these dollars are coming from and,
essentially, where they need to go.
We just -- last week we were able to send you-all a letter on
behalf of our Collier chapter about our position to support this
additional spend. We just simply ask that you remain competitive in
the markets that you compete against in the headwinds of the current
conditions that we're seeing, not just in Florida but across the
industry.
So these additional dollars will make sure that you do that with
some of these markets that you see on the board. And I would just
like to add, you know, one additional point. Again, thank you all for
Page 74 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 65
everything, and thank you for making this motion and the second.
As long as your tourism department and the CVB are a function
of Collier County Government, the buck does stop with you-all and
county leadership about maximizing butts in beds. Attracting those
visitors, attracting those conventions, attracting those large events,
attracting everything that we've discussed, essentially does fall back
onto county leadership because of the structure that we have here in
Collier County.
So thank you all for your time. Appreciate your support.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Sharon Lockwood. She'll
be followed by Steve Dorcy.
MS. LOCKWOOD: Good morning, Commissioners. Sharon
Lockwood. I'm the area general manager at the JW Marriott, Marco
Island.
I'm very happy to be here today. I had the opportunity last fall
to speak to each one of you about this important topic of -- and I don't
want to call it supplemental anymore. I just think it should be our
marketing budget.
When we think about the economy and where we are -- and I
can tell you firsthand, I have lost some significant group business
from Canada over the last two years, year and a half, but most
importantly in 2025 for future business. So I'm going to be out
looking for new business.
And, Hyla, I want to apologize to you because our occupancies
have been down considerably this summer year over year.
And speaking to Commissioner LoCastro, I have steadily over
the last six and a half, seven years that I've been here, with the
exception of COVID year, had 1,150 associates/employees. I'm
down to under a thousand, not because I can't find them, but I don't
have enough hours for the individuals that I'm currently employing.
Page 75 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 66
I also know that living close to Marc Island I visit the
restaurants. Restaurants are closing down one or two days a week
because they cannot afford the payroll to stay open full-time. It has
not been that way since I've been down here.
And furthermore, I work every Saturday at our local food bank
on Marco Island, and the number of families have gone up over 300
from where I was last year to where we are this year. That talks
about the tourism business. It talks about putting those heads in beds.
It's important.
When I think about the full year, we're going to run 53.5 percent
occupancy in Collier County. So you take the first three months of
the year where you're running close to capacity, that number is
abysmal.
And I'm competitive, too, Commissioner Kowal. I want to run
over 70 percent as a county. What is it going to take for us to get
there? And that's just the price of entry.
So when we talk about six million we've been spending, that's in
2019, if you just add inflation, we're up at eight million, and we're
only asking for another three million to even get us on par to where
we should be.
I believe Collier County is the best county in Florida. I am so
grateful to live and work here, but if we don't make these changes
now, we're going to be having this discussion every year for the next
five or 10 years unless we see an unprecedented surge like we did.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker on this item is
Steve Dorcy.
MR. DORCY: Good morning, Chairman Saunders
Commissioners. Appreciate it. My name's Steve Dorcy. I am the
general manager of the Inn at Pelican Bay. We are a locally owned
Page 76 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 67
100-room hotel on Vanderbilt Beach Road. And so when you're
looking at some of the different hotels and everything, it's really
important to us what the CVB does, and we are in full support of
what's going on.
It's a -- we're 40 employees. We need every little bit that we
can. And with the CVB, it makes us all compete on a level playing
field. So when they're putting together a new program or they're
putting something, that's for Sharon. It's for all the other -- it's for the
big hotels. It's for the little people like me.
And so I stand here representing every one that's medium size,
small hotel, and in support of this. So I just want to make that
statement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
We have a motion and a second.
Commissioner McDaniel, your light is up. Anything else?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, you were kind enough to
recognize me before --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- public speakers. Thank
you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. Any further discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, I'll call for the vote.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not yet.
Page 77 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 68
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm not sure what the vote was.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that a --
COMMISSIONER HALL: 4-1.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 4-1.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay, 4-1. And I agree with a
couple speakers. I don't want to see this coming back every year.
Take a look at that $6 million budget for the following year. I'm not
suggesting that you move it to 11 million. But if that's been our
budget, 6 million since 2019, then I think we would all agree that
that's probably something that needs to be taken a look at.
So, anyway, we're going to take a break until quarter after 11.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I add something,
Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: To the executives that came
and spoke, Sharon and your group, I just want to thank you for
coming but challenge you to continue to stay plugged in with Jay on
a regular basis and give him feedback. I mean, it's great where we
see you all here -- and I'm not saying, you know, you aren't involved.
But I can't stress enough the importance of when we're not in these
meetings to continue feeding him with how your stats are going and
how you're measuring things, because you're our yardstick out there,
and then that helps to arm him with information when he comes to a
TDC meeting to either make the case or not. So I appreciate all your
comments.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. When we come back,
we'll take up Item 11E. That's the 11 o'clock time-certain?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we'll be in recess until 11:15.
(A recess was had from 10:57 a.m. to 11:15 a.m.)
Page 78 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 69
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
If you'll take your seats, we're going to reconvene.
We're moving over to Item 11E, I believe; is that correct?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #11E
A REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENT FROM THE CITY OF
MARCO ISLAND IN THE AMOUNT OF $647,873 USING
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS FOR COSTS TO
RESTORE THE BEACH SAND BERM OF THE
TIGERTAIL/SAND DOLLAR ISLAND SPIT IN
NORTHWESTERN MARCO ISLAND RESULTING FROM
IMPACTS OF TROPICAL STORM DEBBY AND HURRICANES
HELENE AND MILTON, AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENT, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS
EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM. (JUSTIN MARTIN,
CITY OF MARCO ISLAND PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11E is our 11 o'clock time-certain.
This is a recommendation to approve a request for reimbursement
from the City of Marco Island in the amount of $647,873, using
tourist development tax funds for costs to restore the beach sand
berm of the Tigertail/Sand Dollar Island spit in Northwestern Marco
Island resulting from impacts of Tropical Storm Debby and
Hurricanes Helene and Milton, authorize the necessary budget
amendment, and make a finding that this expenditure promotes
tourism.
Page 79 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 70
We have Mr. Justin Martin from the City of Marco Island Public
Works, their director, is here to present.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
MR. MARTIN: Good morning, Commissioners. As mentioned,
Justin Martin, the Public Works director from the City of Marco
Island.
And it's fitting that this item is right after your last item, which
was related to tourism. This is also related to tourism, and it's related
to the Sand Dollar spit on Marco Island. As you see in the photo
right here -- I'm going to try and keep this presentation really short,
so I'm going to skip over some slides and just cover the important
issues.
This is a reimbursement request, as was mentioned. So the work
is already done. The -- last year we had, as was mentioned, Tropical
Storm Debby, Hurricanes Helene and Milton that caused some
erosion of the beach berm that you see on here. And this is a spit.
It's accessible from the Tigertail Beach county park. So you can go
in your car, park in the Tigertail Beach parking lot, and walk up the
spit to access the entire length of it.
So, obviously, when we have storm surge from three storm
events, we were impacted from storm surge of all of those storms.
And it did its best to hold up, but obviously, it's difficult for a sand
spit like that to withstand all of that.
So there is a biannual restoration program that is already
programmed that came before you last year, and that is a
once-every-two-years normal maintenance of restoring the sand spit.
But in the interim, if we have hurricanes with storm surge that affects
the coast, just like it does everywhere else in Collier County, it
requires some restoration of the sand.
And so this request is for $647,000, as was mentioned. And I
think last year when we came before the -- this Board of
Page 80 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 71
Commissioners, one of the comments was, "Anytime you can do
anything for less than a million dollars, that's a win-win."
So if you would compare the restoration of this sand spit to the
other beaches in Collier County in the City of Naples, we're talking
tens of millions. This was 647,000 to restore it from the effects of
three individual storms that had storm surge that caused the breaches.
So with that, I'm going to go through some of these slides.
This is just showing where -- the area bounded in red there on
the left, it's an extension of the Tigertail Beach Park, which is at the
south end, and it goes all the way to the north. I'm going to skip over
this.
All right. So here's some photos that shows what it looked like.
And there's a typo in the slide on the left there. That's November of
2024, not 2025; obviously, we're not there yet.
So that's what it looked like after those three storms that we had
in 2024 that caused erosion of the spit. And as you can imagine, if
you're accessing the beach from the Tigertail Beach, you get to a
point where you can't walk down that spit anymore, and it's gone.
So the photo to the right is from this year. That's April of this
year. That's after the restoration was done. We have a short window
to be able to do this restoration between November and mid -- and
February, which -- November is when the sea turtle season ends, and
then February is when the shorebird nesting season starts.
So the restoration has to occur in that time frame, and that's one
of the reasons why the City's involved, in order to be able to get this
done in a timely manner, and then we come to Collier County for
reimbursement of the tourism fund.
So here's a photo. On the left is before the restoration, and this
is in the same area. As you can see, there's not much of a sandy
beach left there. The sand got pushed into the mangroves, and that
caused the die-off of the mangroves, and then on the right is after the
Page 81 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 72
restoration. So you have sandy beach, you have beachgoers that are
now able to walk it.
What happened there? Let me go back.
On the left, the beachgoers cannot walk up the rest of the spit
because of the -- of the storm damage.
Here's some photos, just a collection of some of the attractions
of the Sand Dollar spit. We're going to have another photo zooming
in on that top left photo there. That was taken shortly after -- one
week after we reopened the spit in March of this year. And you can
see all the beachgoers on the beach. You can access this. This is -- I
don't know why this is doing that. You can access this from walking.
Get there by car and walk up the beach, or you can come by boat.
So there are 37 fishing charters in Marco Island, alone, and
many of those fishing charters stop in the Tigertail Lagoon, which is
directly adjacent to this. And there's also a lot of other types of
tourism activities as is listed here.
There's birdwatching, beachcombing, kayaking, kite surfing,
surfing -- fishing, charter fishing, sunbathing. All of that is enjoyed
on this Sand Dollar spit.
Here's a photo taken in March, just as I mentioned, just right
after we reopened the spit. And if you looked at this photo, you
would think that was Keewaydin, but it's not. It's Sand Dollar spit.
So this has a lot of the same tourist attractions that the -- that
Keewaydin does at the southern end by boaters, but it also has the
advantage that you can get there walking from the beach.
So here's some of the commercial tours. There's
dolphin-watching tours. There's shelling tours. Beachcombing.
There's tours that are organized by some of the -- some of the hotels
and places where you can stay on Marco Island.
Here's some of the advertisements from -- that -- where it's been
featured on social media. You have -- it's been featured in the Naples
Page 82 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 73
Daily News, the Reader's Digest. It was one of the best-kept secrets
as far as beaches in the country.
Sorry, forgive me. I don't know why it's doing that. I'm not
touching anything. It's just automatically going to the next slide.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's Troy's fault.
MR. MARTIN: You have -- it's featured in TripAdvisor,
featured in the New York Times, and also it's on the Great Florida
Birding and Wildlife Trail, so we have visitors that come from all
over the world just to look at some of these endangered shorebirds,
like Wilson's plovers, the black swimmers, and some of these other
ones. They -- it does attract a lot of people down to Marco Island for
that.
So it's also featured in the advertisements for some of the
short-term rentals such as VRBO, Airbnb, and you can see here there
is just a sample of some of these.
Marco Island is also a stop on the America Cruise Lines route,
which has several different routes, one starting in St. Petersburg, goes
down to the Florida Keys, and then back up, stops in Marco Island.
Another one starts over in the -- on the East Coast near St. Augustine
and then comes around and then also stops here in Marco Island.
This is a photo from June of this year. So you can see this -- the
spit is still standing. We haven't had any storm surge events this
year, thank God. And so we're just looking at the normal
maintenance here if things hold up and we don't get another storm.
Now, at the southern end of this, you can see that white sandy
beach. That's how you -- and over on the right by the lagoon, that's
where -- that's Tigertail Beach, and that's where the parking area is.
So you can walk down to the south, make your way around, and go
up the entire spit.
Another before-and-after photo, actually in 2022. This was the
conditions then after Hurricane Ian and after the restoration that was
Page 83 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 74
done in 2023.
And with that, that concludes this presentation. And as I
mentioned, this is a reimbursement request. So the work has already
been done. This is all permitted, constructed, and we only will come
to you if we need to do post-storm restorations for this type of
restoration, and then there's a biannual maintenance, as I mentioned
earlier.
And with that, I'll take any questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Good morning.
MR. MARTIN: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Is this -- is this a natural, or was
this just -- was this designed and manmade at some time?
MR. MARTIN: This is part of what's called the Tigertail
Beach/Sand Dollar -- Tigertail Lagoon/Sand Dollar Island ecosystem
restoration program. So while there was beach there, it was closed
off, and you had Tigertail Lagoon. I don't know if you recall, but
Tigertail Lagoon for many years was closed off, and it was just a
stagnant pond, if you will.
And so to restore that, this project was permitted. And this was
a cooperation by the Hideaway Beach special taxing district in Marco
Island, because this is a win-win type of project. It serves several
functions. It serves the function of being an ecosystem for
shorebirds, for sea turtles, a nursery for fish in the lagoon, and it also
serves a purpose of storm fortification for the community.
So if you didn't have this spit -- this serves like a -- similar to a
car -- a bumper on a car. It's the first line of defense for oncoming
storms. If you didn't have this -- if you look at that photo on the
right, you have all of those mangroves there that would be decimated
by storm surge and having the sand pushed into there. In fact, some
Page 84 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 75
of that did happen even with this spit, but it would have been a lot
worse. And then you have some homes that are really close there,
and you would end up with an erosion of the -- of the coast similar to
what happened in Estero Island in Fort Myers Beach, where if you
look at photos over time, there was a nice white sandy beach there,
and now there's a seawall. There is no beach because of all the
erosion over time.
So this is an engineered project where the reason that it costs so
little in order to restore this is because the sand migrates to the tip of
this spit at the northern end, which we can then access that with
mechanical means with excavators and quarry trucks and not have to
import sand from other places throughout either the county or other
counties. That's what makes those projects really expensive.
In this case, the sand migrates near by, which is accessible, and
we don't have those transportation costs, and that's why this is a
sustainable, renewable project that can be maintained over time.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So at some point in time --
I mean, do you know when initially it took place, the project, the
initial one?
MR. MARTIN: I have the engineer here that did the permitting.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm not talking about now. I'm
talking about when they originally decided that this was going to be
some sort of barrier to the coastline when it was --
MR. MARTIN: This is Mohamed Dabees from Humiston &
Moore.
MR. DABEES: Thank you.
For the record, Mohamed Dabees, Humiston & Moore
engineers, project engineer for this project.
So this system is a natural system, but it's also intersecting with
the activities on Marco Island. So the history of the system goes back
to the 1960s when is the inlet -- when Big Marco Pass was evolving,
Page 85 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 76
and then the sand spit was attaching to the island. The dredging of
the entrance started in the early 2000s to keep the entrance open and
to keep the lagoon flushing.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: For navigation, okay.
MR. DABEES: Not for navigation.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Flushing, flushing.
MR. DABEES: For -- and it's a two-mile lagoon, so -- and then
the sandpit was permitted in 2022, and the initial construction was in
2023.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So at some point in the
'60s or early '70s this was a thought-of thing, and it was done or not
done. Look, I'm going to go -- I don't even -- I'll go somewhere else.
I wasn't getting the answer I was asking.
So I'm going to ask these technical questions because I'm
learning a lot more about this because of my own issues I'm dealing
with in my district with beaches.
So the parking spaces that are in the park, how many spots are
there?
MR. MARTIN: I don't have that. I would have to defer to
county parks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. Ms. Patterson, do you
know -- do we have anybody from our Park department here that
can --
MS. PATTERSON: I'm looking at the back.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I guess -- the reason I'm asking
the question is because I know from my own education I'm --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- going up against is that you
have to have so many parking spots for so many 1,500 feet to use
tourism tax dollars to pay for projects like this.
So what's the length from where the spit to the parking lot -- and
Page 86 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 77
do we go south of the parking lot with beach renourishment and
things like that using TDC money counting those spots?
MR. MARTIN: I don't have that answer for you. It does have
multiple parking lots --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because it's a statutory thing.
That's what I'm trying to figure out. We're not doing something
outside the statute by giving you the money.
MR. MARTIN: No, I understand. And I just want to inform
you that this was looked at by county staff and also the County
Attorney's Office, and the determination was made last year when
this first came before you that admit all those requirements. I just
don't have all those details for you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson?
MS. PATTERSON: I can help. I don't know that Jamie's
coming up with the total number of spaces at Tigertail, but this -- this
project, as it pertains to Sand Dollar Island and Tigertail Lagoon,
we've probably 15 years amongst Marco and the County talking
about what to do, not only for the health of -- for the Tigertail
Lagoon, but probably more importantly for Hideaway Beach in
Marco was the -- with the attempt of the island to attach to Hideaway
Beach. The frequency of them having to dredge that spit was
increasing.
And so they had approached the County a number of times in
the past to look at a collaborative partnership. So as the folks said,
we did vet this through the County Attorney's Office, and it did make
a trip to the CAC and the TDC when the initial project was done. So
this was a natural dynamic system up until two years ago when it was
permitted.
You'll probably recall we had several meetings where folks
came in to talk about the birds. There was, like, 12-acre growth on
the spit that had become a home for shorebirds where they were
Page 87 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 78
nesting. So the question became, would we ever even -- would they
even be able to permit it. The answer, obviously, is yes.
And so that is sort of how this project has evolved. But along
the way, the determination was made that this was eligible for tourist
development dollars. We can get you the -- we can get you the
information on the number of spaces at Tigertail.
But the other interesting part about this is that the access,
generally speaking to this, people can walk either through the lagoon
or around the lagoon and out onto the beach, and they can make their
way the whole way. I actually subjected staff to doing a walkabout
on this early in the project.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So you can walk through water?
It's shallow enough?
MS. PATTERSON: Originally you could. Now, I don't know
with all of the flushing going on now if you can go across the lagoon
anymore, but you can, by land, go out and around and come out onto
this -- onto this beach. But it looks like the -- most of the activity
that's happening out there is actually -- is actually now by boat,
similar to Keewaydin.
But the sand source -- as Justin said, the sand source for this
project, the sand actually migrates down and around, and this was the
issue of how it was trying to attach out onto the land onto the beach.
So that -- and it collects. It collects there. And so they're able, then,
to dredge that out and bring it back over onto the beach.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I understand that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal, do you still
need to know some information about Tigertail Park, or are you okay
with that?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No. I just -- as long as it --
legally, we already had to -- it looked at, and it meets the
requirement, because I know that was some of the things I had issues
Page 88 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 79
with with some areas on our beach in Naples.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. And, sir, the answer is --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because we didn't have public
parking, and we couldn't use TDC money --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow, you may have
looked at this some time ago.
MS. PATTERSON: We've looked at this, the County Attorney
and staff. This has followed the progress -- the required -- the
required progress of a project through the TDC, which the County
Attorney reviews, the CAC, which the County Attorney reviews, and
then to the Board of County Commissioners for that finding that it
promotes tourism; however, there are 226 regular spaces and six
handicap spaces at Tigertail Beach, just to --
MR. KLATZKOW: If you look at the legal considerations, it
sets forth the reason why we can do this.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right.
MR. FRENCH: And, Commissioner, that is not inclusive of
your storage area that you keep for beachcombing as well as any of
the equipment. So in the event that we would ever need to move that,
that would be available parking. It's very primitive there as you
access the beach where you've got more designed parking there next
to the restrooms and what was -- what used to be the concession area
that was open in the playground.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I'm obviously somewhat biased because this is my district and
probably have attended a lot more meetings on this than everybody
else combined.
We never promised to fully, you know, reimburse, but I think
the spirit of this qualifying for TDC dollars was always something
Page 89 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 80
that was discussed.
To answer Commissioner Kowal's question maybe a little bit
more succinctly than you guys did as engineers or what have you,
when he asked, you know, is this natural, I think the right answer or
the easier answer is, yes, it's been natural for years, but we've
enhanced it a lot to help make it more accessible and to survive the
storms more and whatnot. But I'm sure if we went back, you know,
X number of years when none of us were here, it sort of looked like
this, but it's been enhanced a lot.
And then what a lot of people don't realize, they'll say, "Oh,
you're going to spend $600,000, but if a Hurricane Katrina comes and
hits tomorrow, you know, everything you've done is for nothing."
This is a natural repair. So we add sand to beaches all over Collier
County every year, you know, where I've gotten emails from people,
"Oh, you're so stupid. You're repairing this with sand. Why don't
you put rocks and a seawall and this and that?"
Every environmental agency, as you know, Doc being the lead
engineer, we can't -- we can't do it that way. So we do the best that
we can and then, you know, we repair here and there.
Ms. Patterson already sort of answered the parking spots. That
lot could be half full, but this whole area could be packed because, as
she said, it's mostly accessible by more people by boat. So although
we count the cars and we have the right number of spots, it doesn't
really tell the whole story as far as boat access goes.
My last question is for you. Mr. Martin?
MR. MARTIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Has -- you know, Marco
Island right now is in their own budget discussions. You know, this
might meet the parameters for tourism dollars, and it does, and we
had talked about reimbursement multiple times. But in their budget
discussions, have they talked at all about splitting the difference with
Page 90 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 81
us, picking up part of the tab?
Because we have Vanderbilt -- not Vanderbilt, I'm sorry --
Hideaway Beach residents who are spending a big ton of their own
money to add to this project in the areas closer to Hideaway Beach.
Then we've got the part that then sort of gravitates down to Tigertail,
which becomes sort of a joint project between Marco and the County.
But has there been any -- any discussion, or did they tell you to
march right here and ask for the full -- the full amount and hopefully,
you know, come back with a big bag full of $600,000 from TDC
money? Is there any -- any partnership at all in the Marco budget?
MR. MARTIN: Last night was the second City Council meeting
for the budget. The budget is now finalized. And one of the items
within the budget there is -- there's several different budgets. And
one of the budgets is, as you mentioned, the Hideaway Beach special
tax district budget. They did increase their millage rate in order to
fund things such as this to accommodate the restoration of this sand
spit. They have mentioned that board -- because I'm also the staff
liaison for that board, and I attend those meetings. They have
mentioned over time that they cannot go it alone. They need support
from the county to do this. And if they don't have the support, they
will not be able to continue doing this.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But how about support from
Marco, because all the things that you mentioned -- and I'm just
playing devil's advocate a little bit. I mean, obviously, I support this
wholeheartedly. It's in my district. But like I said, I'm a little bit
biased and have maybe a little bit more information on the value or a
little bit more personalized feel on the value of it.
But when you say that the Hideaway people can't go at it alone,
it's not just Hideaway and the County. Is there any discussion with
the Marco Island City Council that -- Marco benefits from this as
well. It's not just, you know, a county asset and a Hideaway Beach
Page 91 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 82
asset. Has there been any of that discussion as well?
MR. MARTIN: I cannot speak for City Council on behalf of
City Council. I do invite you to reach out to City Council to discuss
that. They will be glad to discuss those sorts of issues.
But as you're aware, we're all budget challenged, and every year
we have the list of infrastructure needs and what's -- what needs to be
funded versus the revenues and what comes in with property taxes
and other revenue sources. But I'm not able to answer that question
on behalf of the City, because that would be something that needs to
be directed to City Council.
MR. DABEES: And if I may add, beach management is more
on the county side.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, we're aware.
MR. DABEES: And it's the same with the City of Naples, the
City of Marco. So I don't really know exactly how the history is, but
all the beach projects from Caxambas Pass to Barefoot Beach that are
of public interest are managed by the County.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: County, yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. So just two comments.
Mr. Martin, last year when you were here, you mistook what
was said. Any project less than a million dollars isn't where we're at.
Where you got the compliment was the sand source that was utilized
for this was local. It was right there, and we weren't trucking it in
from inland sources.
So I was really happy about that. I think from a comparison
standpoint, we were 10, $12 a ton moved here as opposed to paying
20 a ton and trucking it in. So that's just as a point of clarification.
Number two, I would -- it's good that you've got a biannual
maintenance program, but maybe give consideration to bumping that
up to doing it every year. I mean, the dynamics of water transpiring
Page 92 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 83
with all of our beaches all along the way, if you're -- if you're stuck,
unless there's an emergency, just maybe give consideration to
bumping that up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I have a couple
questions and a comment as well.
Ms. Patterson, my recollection is that the amount of tourist tax
dollars collected on Marco Island is about 25 percent of the total. Is
that in the ballpark? I mean, I know it's a big percentage. I think
that's true of the City of Naples as well.
MS. PATTERSON: I'm looking at our Tourism folks, but --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just ballpark it.
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah. Ed says that's approximately.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So, you know, spending
money on Marco Island, I certainly have no problem with that,
because you raise a lot of that revenue there, and I know there's going
to be a motion to approve this, and I'll support it. This obviously is
something that's going to happen -- it may not happen every year, but
the odds are pretty good it will happen every couple years. I mean,
there's just a thin line of sand there. That wouldn't take much of a
storm to wash through that.
And so I'm not sure that I would support this for the next three
years that I'm on the Board. So I just lay that -- plant that seed.
Commissioner LoCastro said maybe there's a formula where the three
interested parties, Collier County, the City of Marco, and Hideaway
Beach, maybe there's some way to share these costs. But I see this as
an infrastructure project that is built to not last. It just can't. So next
year when you come back, if it washes out this year and you come
back, I'm not so sure I'd support it.
But, Commissioner LoCastro.
Do we have any other registered speakers?
MR. MILLER: (Shaked head.)
Page 93 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 84
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro, I assume
you want to make a motion.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. I'll make a motion to
approve, but I actually have talked to the City Council and other
forums in here and have said, "This isn't a blank check every year to
just say, 'Hey, do what needs to happen out there and then come back
to us for reimbursement.'"
The engineering feat that happened out there was miraculous, I
mean, when you look at the before-and-after pictures.
But it's expensive. And so maybe some preliminary
conversations before the money is spent and then coming back to us.
And we did have some of those. Maybe more at my level and not at
the Commissioner level. But if this becomes a recurring thing, if we
have the unfortunate incident of some big storms that are coming in
here, what I would tell the City of Marco and even the people at
Hideaway Beach is talk to us a lot sooner so we see what the bill's
going to be and then maybe we have that conversation about how
we're going to share the load rather than just, you know, fix it all and
then -- and then come to the County and say, "Here's the bill for
reimbursement."
So I make the motion that we -- that we approve this, but I echo
what Commissioner Saunders has said. You know, every time we
have to invest in this, we need to -- we definitely need to have a
conversation, and sooner than later. And everybody I talk to agrees.
So I'm not saying anything -- I've talked to the folks on Marco. But
I'll make a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and second.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, all those in favor,
Page 94 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 85
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Ms. Patterson, we're going to be taking a break for lunch in 15,
20 minutes, 30 minutes or so.
MS. PATTERSON: Sure. So while we're talking all things
beaches, perhaps we could take care of the stormwater outfall project.
We do have Mr. Middleton here from the City, and I think we have
enough time to go through that one, if it pleases the Board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
Item #11C
THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE A CATEGORY A GRANT
AGREEMENT FOR THE CITY OF NAPLES STORMWATER
OUTFALL PIPE REMOVAL AND WATER QUALITY PROJECT
AS A REIMBURSABLE GRANT NOT TO EXCEED
$10,000,000, AUTHORIZE ANY NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS PROJECT
PROMOTES TOURISM. (BOB MIDDLETON, CITY OF NAPLES
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
HALL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: That is Item 11C. This is a
Page 95 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 86
recommendation to approve and authorize the Chair to execute a
Category A grant agreement for the City of Naples Stormwater
Outfall Pipe Removal and Water Quality Project as a reimbursable
grant not to exceed $10 million, authorize any necessary budget
amendments, and make a finding that this project promotes tourism.
And Mr. Bob Middleton, City of Naples director of Public
Works, is here to present.
MR. MIDDLETON: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Vice
Chairman, Commissioners. My name's Bob Middleton. I am the
Public Works director for the City of Naples.
This morning I'll present the Naples Beach Outfall Pipe
Removal and Water Quality Stormwater Project to be considered for
TDC funding in the amount of $10 million to offset our construction
costs within the City.
MR. MILLER: I'm not finding you here. I'm sorry. I'm
looking. What was the title of it?
MR. MIDDLETON: Recommendation to approve and authorize
the Chair to execute Category A grant agreement.
MR. MILLER: I'm just not seeing it in here under those.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's not it.
MR. MILLER: I don't see it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just tell us about it, Mr. Middleton.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I've got a picture here or
something.
MR. MIDDLETON: I think you're familiar with the project
area. The project area and the demand and mandate by DEP several
years ago was to remove eight outfall projects, along the city beach
between -- along Gulf Shore Boulevard. Our construction project is
taking place on Gulf Shore Boulevard between Eighth Avenue North
and Second Avenue South and along Third Street North with the
same north and south boundaries. There are black lines on the
Page 96 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 87
drawing, if you've got the presentation, that show the location of
those eight outfall lines.
The current gravity system will be replaced by a
two-pump-station system, one at Eight Avenue North and one at
Second Avenue South. Each pump will -- each pump station will
discharge treated stormwater 1,500 feet offshore compared to the
current gravity system that discharges stormwater right at the water's
edge.
This stormwater pump station eliminates the effects that tide has
on the current gravity system, so that pump station doesn't care at
what tide level it is; it will pump the water out to maintain the
efficiency of the stormwater system to prevent flooding.
The City's completed a stormwater impact study earlier -- at the
end of last year and indicate -- that indicated that positive economic
growth and stability would be provided by removing the unsightly
outfall stormwater pipes.
It improves water quality, and it exceeds the state minimum
standards for stormwater. It provides flood protection by increasing
the stormwater event level of service from a five-year storm event to
a 25-year storm event.
In the presentation, there were a few positive impacts that were
described on tourism. Basically, it attracts foot traffic along the
beach, boosts the local Naples economy, increases the aesthetics,
provides improved water quality and flood protection, and I believe
one of the commissioners mentioned that that eliminates an obstacle
along the beach for beach renourishment and beach maintenance to
have equipment out on the beach for those activities.
In closing, the City of Naples respectfully requests the Board of
County Commissioners to approve the TDC funding budgeted in the
amount of $10 million for the Naples Beach Outfall Removal and
Water Quality Project. With that, I will take any questions.
Page 97 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 88
Sorry about not having the presentation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Before we get to Commissioner
Kowal, any registered speakers?
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay, good.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, I spent a lot of time looking into this project, and just -- I
think I was the one that mentioned about, you know, you could see
that picture on there. There's eight of these that are exposed along
the beach for these older outfall systems that were in there.
Mr. Middleton talked a lot more about the technical things, what it's
going to do and how it's going to improve things. But just the fact
that, you know, we're always the ones on the dole to renourish these
beaches, you know, bringing equipment in.
And every time we have to go across one of these obstacles, we
have to bridge it, so it's extra equipment, extra material being moved
around just to get across to the other side, and then we have to break
it back down.
And just, over time, I think it's just -- it's going to save us money
operational-costs-wise from all these beach projects that us, as the
County, are responsible for, you know, in using our tourism tax
dollars to put the new sand on the beaches from time to time.
So, yeah, I just -- I support this project 100 percent.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal, you want to
go ahead and make a motion?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I would -- yes, I would like to
make a motion that we go ahead and grant the $10 million to
authorize from the tourism tax.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
Page 98 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 89
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You already seconded; I was
going to second it for the comment. And the question that -- or we
understand there's an extension of the stormwater outfall out into the
Gulf of Mexico.
MR. MIDDLETON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How much of the 10 million
is being spent on attenuation and water quality on the inland side?
MR. MIDDLETON: The only part of the inland side that we've
requested funding for is the part that makes it a gravity system. If we
were going back with a gravity system, we would not eliminate the
outfall pipes. So the only thing we're requesting funding on is the
$35 million part of the project that includes two pump stations, the
automated -- the automatic generators, and the cost of the directional
drilled outfall pipes from the pump stations into the gulf. The
remaining collection system is not part of this request.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'll make -- I'll second
that motion, if it has not already been seconded. Commissioner Hall,
you seconded it?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Just for the record --
clarification for the record, I believe Commissioner McDaniel was
referring to the Gulf of America.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just for the record.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a
second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
Page 99 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 90
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. MILLER: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, we do have one
land-use item, 9A and 9B. I don't think those are going to take a lot
of time.
Is our court reporter okay for -- to go through that?
THE COURT REPORTER: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we -- why don't we do
that, because I know we have some public speakers on that as well.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #9A
ORDINANCE 2025-41: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER
COUNTY GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN, SPECIFICALLY
AMENDING THE FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT AND MAP
SERIES BY CHANGING THE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF
PROPERTY FROM URBAN, URBAN MIXED USE DISTRICT,
URBAN RESIDENTIAL SUBDISTRICT, TO URBAN, URBAN
COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, PREMIER VEHICLE STORAGE
COMMERCIAL SUBDISTRICT, TO ALLOW 60,000 SQUARE
FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA OF INDOOR AIR
CONDITIONED WAREHOUSING AND SELF-STORAGE FOR
VEHICLES, INCLUDING AUTOMOBILES, RECREATIONAL
VEHICLES, BOATS, AND OTHER VEHICLES, FURTHERMORE
DIRECTING TRANSMITTAL OF THE ADOPTED
AMENDMENT TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
Page 100 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 91
COMMERCE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS SITUATED ON
THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF
SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD AND POLLY AVENUE, IN
SECTION 16, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND COMPRISES 3.7± ACRES.
THIS DOCUMENT PROVIDES FOR SEVERABILITY AND AN
EFFECTIVE DATE. (THIS IS A COMPANION ITEM TO
AGENDA ITEM 9.B., PUDZ-PL20240001081 PREMIER
VEHICLE STORAGE CPUD.) [PL20240001079] - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL
MS. PATTERSON: Items -- I will start here. These items were
continued from the September 9th, 2025, Board of County
Commissioners' meeting. Item 9A is a recommendation to approve
an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 89-05, as amended, the Collier
County Growth Management Plan, specifically amending the Future
Land Use Element and Map Series by changing the land-use
designation of property from Urban, Urban Mixed-Use District, and
Urban Residential Subdistrict, to Urban, Urban Commercial District,
Premier Vehicle Storage Commercial Subdistrict, to allow 60,000
square feet of gross floor area of indoor air-conditioned warehousing
and self-storage for vehicles including automobiles, recreational
vehicles, boats, and other vehicles; furthermore directing transmittal
of the adopted amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce.
The subject property is situated on the southeast corner of the
intersection of Santa Barbara Boulevard and Polly Avenue in
Section 16, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier County,
Florida, and comprises 3.1 plus/minus acres.
Item #9B
Page 101 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 92
ORDINANCE 2025-42: AN ORDINANCE REZONING
PROPERTY FROM THE RURAL AGRICULTURAL (A) ZONING
DISTRICT TO THE COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT (CPUD)
ZONING DISTRICT FOR A PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS
PREMIER VEHICLE STORAGE CPUD, TO ALLOW
DEVELOPMENT OF 60,000 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS FLOOR
AREA OF INDOOR AIR-CONDITIONED WAREHOUSING AND
SELF-STORAGE FOR VEHICLES INCLUDING
AUTOMOBILES, RECREATIONAL VEHICLES, BOATS, AND
OTHER VEHICLES. THE SUBJECT PUD, CONSISTING OF 3.7±
ACRES, IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE
INTERSECTION OF SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD AND
POLLY AVENUE, IN SECTION 16, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH,
RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (THIS IS A
COMPANION ITEM TO AGENDA ITEM 9.A, GMPA-
PL20240001079, PREMIER VEHICLE STORAGE COMMERCIAL
SUBDISTRICT GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN
AMENDMENT.) [PL20240001081] - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: This companion item is Item 9B. This is a
recommendation to approve an ordinance rezoning property from the
rural agricultural zoning district to the Commercial Planned Unit
zoning district for a project to be known as Premier Vehicle Storage
CPUD to allow development of 60,000 square feet of gross floor area
of indoor air-conditioned warehousing and self-storage for vehicles,
including automobiles, recreational vehicles, and boats and other
vehicles.
With that, we first need the Board, for your ex parte disclosures,
and then we will swear everybody in.
Page 102 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 93
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. I do have ex parte on both
items; meetings.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes. Both items, phone calls.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Both items, a meeting. Not
meetings.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Both items, meetings.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Same here. I've had ex parte on
both of those items, meetings and emails.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, just FYI, I did have one speaker
signed up, but he has left. So we have no speakers on this at this
point.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: Very good. With that, everybody that
intends to participate, please stand and be sworn in by the court
reporter.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: With that, Mr. Yovanovich.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good morning. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich on behalf of the applicant and team. This item normally
would have qualified for your summary agenda, but there was one
speaker at the Planning Commission that spoke. Obviously, she's not
here, so hopefully we satisfied her concerns.
I can do a quick presentation on this item if the Board wants, or
we can do the rather lengthy. But the -- the request is, as
Page 103 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 94
Ms. Patterson read into the record, a small-scale Comp Plan
amendment for a car storage facility on Santa Barbara Boulevard and
Polly together with a PUD for the same use. Those are the only uses
allowed on the property pursuant to both Growth Management Plan
amendment and the PUD. It's a low traffic generator.
Obviously, I think at this point the community is satisfied with
what we're proposing. It has enhanced buffers. The architecture
looks like their homes.
And with that that's the brief presentation. I know you've all
read the materials, and I've spoken to all of you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll see if there are any questions or
comments from the Commission.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just one quick question.
If I recall, there was a -- and I don't know if we spoke about this
yesterday or not, so forgive me. There was a 90-day lag from the
theoretical approval today until the actual implementation.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. There's -- to make sure this could
never be used as a springboard to Live Local, there will be a deed
restriction on the property prohibiting residential development on the
property. There was a concern that we would somehow trick you
into listening to us and then somehow use it as a Live Local
springboard. But the deed restriction has to be recorded within 90
days.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so my question is, why
the 90 days? Why not with this approval?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, we could do it within 30 -- I've
just got to write it up, make sure the County Attorney's comfortable
with the deed restriction. So it's really something that we have to --
the County Attorney's Office needs to work with me on drafting.
And we could do it quicker. It could be 30 days. We just wanted
Page 104 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 95
time to go back and forth and draft the deed restriction.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is there an appeal period if
somebody --
MR. YOVANOVICH: There's a 30 -- there's a standard 30-day
appeal period anyway.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You want to do the deed restriction
after the appeal period?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We have no registered
speakers at this point?
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll close the public hearing.
Mr. Bosi, did we get a letter or anything from the person that
was going to speak, any letters of objection?
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
No, we've never -- we haven't received any letters of objection.
And if I recall the lady, she didn't support the project, but she wasn't
opposing the project. She wasn't in terms of -- adamant about it. She
just had several concerns, but they -- I think they may have been
addressed as part of the presentations.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We are looking for a
motion. Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I was just going to make a
statement. I didn't get any emails of objection or anything, and this is
right on the fringes of my district.
But for people that maybe afterwards, if we do -- if we do pass
and approve this, maybe I don't -- I don't love seeing storage units
popping up all over the place, but this is one piece of property where
a whole lot worse things could go there when it comes to traffic and
things like that. And that is a very, very busy area. So knowing that
Page 105 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 96
a big chunk of land is going to have something on it that stays pretty
quiet, I think, is -- like I always say, I hate it less.
But I didn't get pushback from anyone. All the meetings I had
were with staff and with others, and so I just wanted to make that
statement and say I don't think anybody up here's going, yay, another
car storage unit, but there are strategic areas of the community that --
when somebody steps forward and wants to buy the land and build
something like this, there are some areas where it's less bad putting
something like this than what else could easily go there and could
create a massive negative situation. But I don't have any other
questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Then we're looking for a
motion on both items.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll make a motion to approve.
Do you want to take them one at a time or --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No. Let's just do both of them at
the same time.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll make a motion to approve
both.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And I assume it's okay
with you to have both items at the same time?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a
second. Seeing no discussion, all in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
Page 106 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 97
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, we're close to the
lunchtime. Anything else that you need to do before we break for
lunch?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Why don't we -- why
don't we break for lunch, and we'll come back at 1 o'clock.
(A luncheon recess was had from 11:59 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. I have no idea where
we are.
MS. PATTERSON: We're going to continue on in our
advertised public hearings, which will bring us to the items that were
moved from the summary agenda to the regular agenda. These are
our Domestic Animal Services items. At your pleasure -- if you'd
like me to read them all into the record now. I'm not sure how --
where our discussion's going to go, or do you want to take them one
by one?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, you don't -- you've
already read them into the record.
MS. PATTERSON: I have to read them again because now this
is where we're starting.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's just go ahead and
read them all into the record while we're still waiting for one more
commissioner. So that will give us some more time.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #9C
Page 107 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 98
ORDINANCE 2025-43: AN ORDINANCE REPEALING AND
REPLACING ORDINANCE NO. 2004-06 TO RESTRUCTURE
THE DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES ADVISORY
COMMITTEE, PROVIDE FOR THE CREATION, PURPOSE,
POWERS AND DUTIES, PROVIDE FOR APPOINTMENT AND
COMPOSITION, TERMS OF OFFICE, ATTENDANCE AND
REMOVAL FROM OFFICE, PROVIDE FOR OFFICERS,
QUORUM, AND RULES OF PROCEDURE - MOTION TO
APPROVE W/CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL
MS. PATTERSON: So this will be Items 17H, which is now
9C, 17I, which is now 9D, and 17K, which is now 9E.
9C is a recommendation to adopt an ordinance repealing and
replacing Ordinance No. 2004-06 to restructure the Domestic Animal
Services Advisory Committee; provide for the creation, purpose,
powers and duties; provide for appointment and composition, terms
of office, attendance, and removal from office; provide for officers,
quorum, and rules of procedure.
Again, this item was removed to the regular agenda at
Commissioner Saunders' and Commissioner McDaniel's separate
requests.
MS. PATTERSON: Item 17I, now 9D, is a recommendation to
adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 2013-33, as amended,
which established the Animal Control Ordinance. Again, moved at
Commissioner Saunders' and Commissioner McDaniel's separate
requests.
Item #9E
Page 108 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 99
ORDINANCE 2025-45: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE 2013-55, WHICH ESTABLISHED THE
STANDARDS OF CARE FOR ANIMAL-RELATED BUSINESSES
AND ORGANIZATIONS, BREEDERS, AND RODEOS
ORDINANCE - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO
MS. PATTERSON: And finally, 9E, a recommendation to
adopt an ordinance amending 2013-55 which established the
standards of care for animal-related businesses and organizations,
breeders, and rodeos ordinance. Again, moved at Commissioner
Saunders' and Commissioner McDaniel's separate requests.
So Mr. French, your department head for Community
Development/Growth Management, is here to -- I think I said that
backwards, Growth Management/Community Development.
Anyway, he is here to start. We'll start with 9C.
MR. FRENCH: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Again, for
the record, my name's Jamie French. I'm your department head for
Growth Management and Community Development.
I'm joined today by Ms. Meredith McLean, your Domestic
Animal Services director, and Mr. Tom Iandimarino, your Code
Enforcement director, and we're here to answer any questions that
you might have. Specifically, I think what this is -- on the permission
to advertise for the DAS advisory board.
MS. PATTERSON: Adoption.
MR. FRENCH: Oh, these are the adoption. My apologies. The
adoption for the two ordinances that you've heard prior.
MS. PATTERSON: As well as the advisory board, so our first
item up is going to be the advisory board. If we want to start with
any questions on that change at the Board's direction. We brought
this forward with the other two, animal control and DAS ordinances
Page 109 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 100
to clarify the goals and intent of the DAS advisory board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel. Then I'll go after you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to -- okay,
Mr. Chair.
I mean, I really -- you know, I read -- I read through the
ordinance, and I would -- I would like to make a suggestion that --
and I'm okay with the -- with the change in membership from seven
to five.
One of the suggestions that I had was eliminating the individual
titles of each one of the members and then allowing for a commission
district to be an appointee.
And then Humane Society could be, as is in several of our other
boards, a nonvoting participant. And then, of course, we can have --
we can have alternates and such as whatever is necessarily called for.
But I think that by eliminating the names, it opens up -- or naming of
the seats, it opens up the opportunity for a wider participation
throughout our community with regard to the operations at DAS.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I had the same recommendation. I
don't have any problem with the five. I thought that it would be good
to have -- like, number one on the list is someone that has finance,
accounting, or some business or professional -- business professional
type of experience. I thought that would probably be a good
category, and then one with animal welfare or rescue organizations,
and then the rest of them appointed without any particular
background information.
Is that -- does that sound like something that you would support
or -- because that would provide -- that would give us the opportunity
to appoint somebody from the Humane Society or whatever
organization we wanted to. As well as someone with some business
experience.
Page 110 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 101
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think -- my suggestion was
more generic. It was an appointee from each one of the commission
districts, and then the sixth nonvoting member but yet participant
would be Humane Society. I don't disagree that having someone
with some financial background and knowledge and -- you know, and
animal care is an important thing.
But I just was -- I was looking to -- I mean, we -- we can
establish maybe those criterium that are in the named seats from
the -- because we're going to get a lot of applicants, I would assume,
and we can pick our appointees based upon their qualifications, and
then -- because I think, ultimately, if we do it this way, we're -- the
appointees are going to have to come back to this board anyway, and
we can -- we can have a look at those criterium, the criterium that
you're suggesting, Commissioner Saunders, as a requisite of the
appointment.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have four members on the
Board right now; is that correct? I know it's a seven-member board,
but we have four that are --
MR. FRENCH: Active members, that's right. Currently you
have a few vacancies on it, and it has -- it has created some issue or
some concern for staff to hold regular meetings predominantly
because it's hard to form a quorum by having a four-member
minimum of the seven that hold those seats on the Board -- or on the
advisory committee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I don't mean to interrupt
and interject here, but that's something that we ultimately need to
look at, and that's -- it needs to be -- it needs to be discussed that
these are advisory boards to the Board of County Commissioners,
and whether you -- whether you think governance under the Sunshine
Law -- I mean, it may have to be statutorily, but we ran into similar
circumstances with the CRA and MSTU over in Immokalee, and it's
Page 111 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 102
one of the reasons why I -- we -- we consolidated those two
organizations and brought it down from 12 to nine, and then -- and
then your quorum is attained by the membership present and not
necessarily a named number.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, actually, let me interrupt,
because I think this is a very important point. We do have one
advisory board that I believe has seven members or it may even have
more, but we defined a quorum as less than the full number of a
majority. The Productivity Committee -- is that correct,
Mr. Klatzkow? I know that they --
MR. KLATZKOW: I couldn't tell you the committee,
Commissioner, but we have done that in the past.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So why don't we do this: Why
don't we create a seven-member committee so that we have -- we
each appoint one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Two at-large.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And we have two at-large.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Humane Society being one of
those two.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And we define a quorum as
three members present. That way I would anticipate that they would
always have four or more there, but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A story was shared with me at
one of the recent hearings where they didn't -- three of the four
showed up, three of the four active members showed up, and the
fourth one was on the way but had a flat tire or something, and they
didn't have the entire meeting because our ordinance specified an
actual number. So if we -- if we name a specific number, that makes
it -- you know, if three show up, two could necessarily serve as the
quorum, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm suggesting that we have a
Page 112 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 103
seven-member board, three would be a quorum. So there's not going
to be a meeting without three.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Without three, okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. But you have seven
potentials.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm okay -- I'm okay with that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And then in terms of the
membership, no particular listing of any background information.
We'll just --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think we -- what I would
suggest is we -- when we -- when we advertise for the applications,
that we put the criterium that are in the current ordinance as listed as
named seats, we use those as criteria for the applicants for us to
review as we're going through appointments, and that way there
hopefully we'll end up with a good cross-section.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm not sure if staff has
that information clearly.
Commissioner LoCastro, you're lit up.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I've got a couple comments.
First of all, with animal welfare being such a hot topic in Collier
County, what an embarrassment that we have seven members on the
board and we're going to say that if three show up it's a quorum. I
would hope we're taking attendance very strongly, and if we continue
to get the same three, then the other four need to be replaced.
I remember when I took over the Affordable Housing Advisory
Committee, we had all these people who had that committee on their
résumé and on LinkedIn pages, yet when we called the meeting, the
same small group would show up. And what was told to me is, "Oh,
these are the same people we always get."
I'd rather have a seat empty than have it empty with a name on
it, and they never show up.
Page 113 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 104
So for the sake of doing business, maybe three showing up, you
know, could be a quorum, so that the three who show up, their time
isn't wasted. But I think this board needs to know if these meetings
commonly only have the same three. And so I know -- I don't know
if it's you, Mr. French, or somebody that, you know, takes attendance.
But, you know, for the sake of argument, three might be fine. But I
sure hope that we get a bigger number than that.
And I would like to know that, because some of the feedback
that we've gotten from some of the board members that do take the
time to show up and contribute say that those meetings in the past
have been poorly attended.
And then the second thing I would say is, we all got an email
from Kelly Highland who sits on the board. She's always very vocal
and gives, you know, her opinion. And I'm not saying that in a
negative way. I appreciate getting something from somebody who
isn't one of the empty seats. I don't know if you saw that email, but
one of the things in it -- there was a lot of suggestions in there about
what we're about to vote on right now, but the biggest thing that
caught my attention is she personally didn't feel that the board
discussed what we're about to vote on enough because she felt it was
important that they do a deep dive, and then give us their feedback so
we're voting on something that's been strongly vetted by the board.
And in her email she said, "We all just got a copy of it at the
beginning of the meeting. We had sort of a short to medium meeting,
and then it was all over."
So I'm just saying I -- you know, are we getting the benefit of
the board's feedback on what we're about to vote on? We might have
a false sense here that, "Hey, everybody thinks this is a great idea,"
but you know, she's only one person but she's -- we all know her, and
she's been very active when it comes to animal welfare.
You know, what are your thoughts on that? And obviously, we
Page 114 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 105
can always amend and add and improve what we're going to vote on.
But, you know, what are your thoughts on that?
MS. PATTERSON: Well, part of this is that the Board directed
us to bring this back at the same time. And we've spent a year sort
of --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, I know.
MS. PATTERSON: -- sort of wandering around on this,
including looking for recommendations from that advisory board.
So I think the time has passed for that, and honestly, if we -- if
we make these adjustments today and pass this ordinance, it doesn't
preclude future changes if there are some improvements that could be
made. But I think at this point we need to -- we need to call the ball
on this one and move along.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I agree. I just wanted to get it
on the record so that if there's board members watching this -- so if
you feel this is sort of force fed on you, that's not true. When you
meet -- and hopefully you have seven people in the seats -- take a
look at what we're possibly going to pass today -- or I assume we're
going to pass today and give us your feedback. We've been saying
that for years that we want to hear from the board.
So we're not handing you something and saying this is chipped
in granite. Let us know what that feedback is. So I agree with
everything you say. I wanted to just sort of add to the conversation
that, you know, Ms. Highland and anybody else that sent us a note is
heard. But realistically, you need to be heard at the board meeting
and then, you know, give us -- give us feedback.
And I'm sure Meredith who runs DAS is -- oh, she's right there.
She's hearing this as well. So I wanted to get all that on the record so
that these folks know that they're heard, but we're trying to move
forward, and we know we can always amend anything that we pass
today if there's some good suggestions.
Page 115 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 106
And, Meredith, also, let us -- you know, if you see people that
are, you know, frequent fliers as far as missing the board, there's a lot
of people out there that care about animal welfare and I'm sure would
fill the seat with a pretty good attendance rate. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, yeah. And, you know,
on that note, you know, the scope of the -- the scope of the advisory
board's duties have been more constricted, brought into more specific
alignment with the ins and outs, day-in, day-out operation of DAS
itself and not necessarily code and -- and/or virtually anything else
that's going on with animal welfare in the community.
So I think at some stage we probably need to have a visit over
into Code with regard to the enforcement aspect of what's, in fact,
transpiring with regard to the DAS officers.
MR. FRENCH: So the DAS officers -- there is no such thing as
a DAS officer. The animal control has been brought into Code
Enforcement, and so we practice under Florida law for crimes against
animals as well as Chapter 162.
I've recently had a discussion with the University of Florida as
well as with the Humane Society of Jacksonville with regards to
really the approaches Collier has taken, and really, they've really
applauded your effort, and clearly it's that migration of getting more
into the Code Enforcement and animal crimes aspect working with
the Sheriff's Office as you're hearing -- I'm sorry, as your Special
Magistrate came and made up -- and made testimony to you, you
have made some very effective moves.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, and on those lines, just kind of following up with what
Mr. French is saying, you know, we -- this advisory committee is --
you know, we all have lanes, and this advisory committee, we create
Page 116 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 107
what the responsibilities or what avenues they look at.
And since we did move DAS, the enforcement portion of it,
under Code, Code, from what I understand, has its own board.
MR. FRENCH: So Code use your special -- your Office of
Special Magistrate. They are quasi-judicial. Your DAS advisory
board, even in your old ordinance, they did not have an enforcement
place. I know that Ms. Highland has made it very clear she wants to
be involved with enforcement. And you do have a Code
Enforcement Board, which she could apply to, but the DAS advisory
board has not participated in the code enforcement aspect of your
Domestic Animal Services operations.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. And what I'm trying to say
is, you know, this advisory board probably has enough on their plate,
you know, making sure our volunteers are taken care of, the
situations they're in day to day, you know, the time they give us, our
facility, how our facility’s upkept and things like that that -- you
know, this is what they should be advising us on.
You know, the other aspect to this -- you know, they're not an
authority. They're an advisory committee. And when they become
an authority, then they take on much more responsibilities, and that's
what it seems like they want to be part of, and that's not really their
wheelhouse, just by definition, because if they're going to be an
authority, then we have to do a lot more than just an advisory
committee.
So I just think the rubber's finally met the road after a year or so
us visiting this. I'm ready to move forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the list of functions, powers,
and duties is pretty substantial. So they'll have plenty on their plate.
We do have a registered speaker -- or speakers.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We have two registered speakers.
Your first speaker is Al Schantzen. He'll be followed by Jim Rich.
Page 117 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 108
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Al, welcome back.
MR. SCHANTZEN: Good afternoon. Al Schantzen, interim
chair.
The reason why we have such low attendance is because
everybody else left. It's not so much that they're not in attendance.
When they are, they are there.
What you call this ordinance, whether it's this -- the original
ordinance or you go to this new ordinance, the fit, form, and function,
we just amplified it in a new ordinance. It basically was already in
the old ordinance, if you read it correctly.
I've been there for less than a year on the board, and I got to
intern because everybody else left. The military, I was the one
standing in front.
I'd like to address how this works either on the old option if I
may -- watch my time -- to the new option. If you have a
dysfunctional agenda that comes at you, you're going to get a
dysfunctional product whether you're working with the older
ordinance or the new ordinance. If you have staff such as that puts
together your agenda that you can work on and you have input on,
you can have a functional agenda. You can take action items, you
can do -- when they bring things to you to deliberate and advise on,
such as the fee structure that you're voting on sometime today, too.
Those are actionable items that an advisory board can take on. We
don't get them. They don't come at us. We don't get to address any
of those issues. We don't get to address the budgets. We don't get to
address facility. We don't get to address -- if it happenstance hits the
agenda, we get to discuss it, but it's not a controlled request for
advice.
I understand that we're not authorities. We're just, through our --
through our different life skills, advising on these actions. Whether
we report directly to the Board of County Commissioners or to the
Page 118 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 109
County Manager, to me that's irrelevant. As long as we're able to
give input on items such as -- which has been amplified on the new
ordinance, go for it.
But garbage in, garbage out. And that's what's been happening.
And that's the reason why you've got a dysfunctional board. That's
the reason you have so many vacancies is because we don't have
staff -- for instance, to put somebody on the Code Enforcement Board
when you -- when it moved over there, I -- the board passed, by full
resolution, to executive summary to you guys to put an animal person
on that board. It took three months before that executive summary --
I was told we're not doing it because Florida Statutes won't let us put
anybody on that board.
So we try. We pass. We don't get no feedback. We get no
communication. We do get asked what we're supposed to be
deliberating on and, simply, that's frustrating. Appreciate it. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. SCHANTZEN: And either ordinance is fine with me just
as long as we have staff support in it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Wait, sir. I had a question for
you, but I don't know if I'm next.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. Commissioner LoCastro,
you're next.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Just a quick question. Should
your board members then be full-time residents and not seasonal?
Like, you know, when I nominate people to the Planning
Commission, I'd never nominate a seasonal person who's going to be
gone six months out of the year. So if you're telling me four of your
seven people are gone six months out of the year, animal welfare is
12 months out of the year. We're putting a lot of pressure on the
three people who live here all year round.
Page 119 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 110
MR. SCHANTZEN: Forgive me, Mr. Chair. Let me address
him directly. These are all -- on the application it asks whether
you're seasonal or not. So everybody that we have had have been
full-time.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No, but -- oh, then maybe I
misunderstood you when you said, "They're all gone." Where'd they
go?
MR. SCHANTZEN: They left. Frustration.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, okay. So they're empty
seats, not --
MR. SCHANTZEN: They're empty seat.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- seats where they're not
attending.
MR. SCHANTZEN: Frustration.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. I gotcha.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And it really doesn't require --
maybe it requires a response, Al. But, you know, would it help -- and
I didn't read anything in here with regard to timeliness for your
agendas and the backup data and everything.
MR. SCHANTZEN: Oh, thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let me -- let me -- I -- so
would it help if we put some parameters in place so that staff had
some directions with regard to the establishment of the agenda and
the backup data for it, if we put that in, similar to our board
meetings? We have an agenda that goes hard and published on
Wednesday before a Tuesday meeting. So would that assist with the
"garbage in, garbage out" theory?
MR. SCHANTZEN: Absolutely. And, in fact, monthly I've
asked that, to get it before that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. Well, we'll
Page 120 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 111
make that part of the -- I would suggest --
MR. SCHANTZEN: Along with the -- along with the backup
data, sir, and any supporting data. Just not the blank agenda.
Anything that goes with it. All we get is that one piece of agenda,
and that's it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They're getting -- they're
getting the message, but we'll make sure we have it as part of this.
MR. SCHANTZEN: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker for this item is Jim
Rich.
MR. RICH: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I had to change
my rhetoric here, because I had, "Good morning, Commissioners."
So you've actually answered some of the questions in your
discussion before we came up here, but I will go over this anyway in
case there's any influence on what your decisions are.
Yesterday it was brought to my attention that you were
considering an ordinance change today regarding the Collier County
Animal Services Advisory Board. Due to my limited time, I'll restrict
my comments to Section 3 of that item, which is appointment and
composition.
In this section, a proposal is made to change the makeup of the
board, including the exemption of every county rescue organization
other than the Patty Baker Humane Society.
While I personally have no issue with the Humane Society, this
proposal would tend to discredit all the time and work that past
advisory boards, animal rescue organizations, and individuals have
contributed to this county.
The mission of the DAS board has been to address and work
towards ending pet overpopulation in our county. There are no better
contributors to this end than the rescue groups such as SNIP Collier,
For the Love of Cats, Volunteer Service for Animals, Animal
Page 121 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 112
Compassion Project, and the like. These are the organizations that
are in the trenches trapping, rescuing, educating the public and
usually being on call 24/7. Yet by denying them the opportunity to
serve on the board, you are telling them their years of experience,
input, and past contributions have no value. On the other hand, the
Humane Society has been paid as an independent contractor for
service such as training and vet care. Their mission is not focused as
a rescue organization working towards ending pet overpopulation in
our county, as the other organizations I previously mentioned.
Finally, I know I speak for all the other animal organizations in
questioning whether a contracted for-services organization, such as
the Humane Society, is not a conflict of interest serving on a board
that makes recommendations to the County. In my opinion, any
advisory board changes such as this should also exclude the Human
Society as well.
I encourage all of you to reconsider the recommendations in this
ordinance section and at least limit the DAS board to any qualified
individual or organization who is not contractually paid or appears to
have vested interest in being a member. To do otherwise would be a
disservice to other rescue groups, the public, and the animal welfare
interest of our county.
You've already addressed that, Commissioner Saunders, with
options, but I wanted -- I had a call from some other rescue groups
and asked if I would speak for them. So that's what this was about.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And Rich brought up the
point which -- which led me to the original prospect of five members
with Humane Society being a party to but not a voting member. And
I -- and I certainly understand the rationale, because part of the
direction that we're appointing for this advisory committee is to
Page 122 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 113
review the budget of DAS and operations, so ons and so forth, and
then ultimately be making recommendations for the expenditures of
DAS as well.
So I can understand the theoretical conflict of interest. And by
maybe having Humane Society, who is a contract vendor, I think -- I
don't know by definition if they are or they're not. Having them as
a -- as the -- one of the two alternates could pose a potential conflict.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to go ahead
and make a motion if that's -- because I think we're at -- just on this
one ordinance. We've got a couple other ordinances, but on this one
ordinance, I'm going to make a motion to approve the ordinance with
the following changes: That it's a seven-member board; that initially
three members voting -- three members present constitutes a quorum.
The reason for that is recognizing there are only four members right
now, and I want this board to be able to start acting tomorrow; that
the -- each commissioner will appoint one from their district, and
then we'll have two at-large.
What I would suggest is in six or eight months if we make the
appointments, we can reevaluate the quorum thing, but initially there
will be a quorum of just three.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's fine.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just pull attention to the four members that have been active
and stuff like that, are any of those four associated with any of these
groups that he's talking about that we're prohibiting from --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, we wouldn't be prohibiting
any groups.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, we're not going to --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's eliminated.
Page 123 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 114
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I didn't hear that in your
motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No. Well, the motion deals with
the appointment. So it eliminates all of the -- that whole section is
changed so that if someone is working with a welfare organization
that benefits in some way from the County's budgeting, so what; they
can still be on this board if we appoint them.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, just as a point of
clarification, we have four sitting members. So we just need to
address if you're going to keep the four we have or if you want to
reseat --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what I had intended.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. So we won't -- you won't each be
appointing a member, then, at this point, because there will be four --
you'll have three open seats.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. We'll leave it to you guys to
figure out how to word this, but that's the intent is to keep the four
that are there.
MS. PATTERSON: Is keep the four that are there. Understood.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Then will you tell us, then, the
four that are there, what districts they're from?
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And then maybe we cover it
that way. And whoever's not represented, we'll appoint.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. And then on a rotation, then you
would be able to --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I just want the board to be able to
maybe have a meeting in October with their four members, because
it's going to take us a while to appoint the other three, and have those
four stay on that -- on that board, because they've been very active.
Page 124 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 115
MR. RICH: May I make one mention? And I've been involved
in the board for many, many years. I found that the biggest problem
we've had is not necessarily having qualified people on the board.
We didn't get enough people applying to begin with, and then it looks
like we became desperate. So whoever happened to apply, just to fill
in those slots, we were doing that. And then we wound up with a
board that wasn't that functional.
So I think it's really important -- we used to require to have a
veterinarian, someone who had some business background. We had
specific things that we were really looking for. In the last couple
years, that's not the case. You know, we have a vacancy, and this
person want to apply, so, sure, come on in. So I think we have to be
very careful in who we're bringing in if you want it to be successful.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to be careful in
making the appointments. We're going to make sure that they're
qualified.
MR. RICH: Well, thank you for your time, everyone. I
appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I -- and I want to go
back to your original proposition. I'm okay with going to seven, but
I'm not okay with -- if they're a recipient of taxpayer dollars being an
advisor to the expenditures of our budget.
And my suggestion is that we hold to the nonparticipatory from
a financial standpoint for the original five, and the two at-large, the
nonvoting members, one of which can be Humane Society, and then
the other from -- in some form of an advisory capacity. I just -- I see
the theory of self-serving interest coming at us without -- without a
lot of -- you know, if you have a willful person on the board who's
wanting to receive government funding to support their animal
welfare not-for-profit, it could have an influence on their advice to
Page 125 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 116
this board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Okay. Well, first of all,
they're only on an advisory board, so they're going to come to us with
whatever recommendation. But just as an example, we're going to
enter into some agreements with the Love of Cats and with Tom
Kepp's group. And so by saying that if you have any benefit from the
County in terms of tax dollars for the programs, that eliminates a lot
of the very active people that are involved.
And so I think we're -- I think we're smart enough to make sure
that we're not going to be voting on a budget item because some
member of an advisory board is going to make a bunch of money.
We're just not -- I have more credit -- I have more confidence in the
Board -- the Commission than that we would let that happen.
But my goal is to get this board moving and effective. And if
we cut out too many people, we're cutting out the people that know
the business. That's my only thought.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And it is -- those are
warranted thoughts. I just -- I just see the potential of a -- of a
conflict if someone on -- if someone on the committee's not strong
enough to stand up and say, "No, you're not there."
Do you have something to say?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir.
So just the thought process behind that is that we do have some
rescue organizations that receive no county benefit. I know that you
had mentioned that some have land leases with you where there is a
county benefit in exchange for land and low rent.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's SNIPS, I think.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
MR. FRENCH: Well, again, sir, the Board does have contracts,
and there are organizations where we have done the vet work of
better than 90 percent within your General Fund budget. And so the
Page 126 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 117
idea was on the conflict and severability and working with the
County Attorney's Office is that we did eliminate them from
participating on any budget type of recommendations to the Board of
County Commissioners which may seem that their organization may
or may not benefit as a result of that. And I certainly understand that
the scope in the field may be limited, but that was the rationale
behind our approach.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, does that
satisfy your concern?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Relatively speaking. I just -- I
mean, I still have the -- you know, I can understand your perception
or your concept that there's, you know, theoretically less people that
would be wanting to be involved, but on the same token, it's going to
require more oversight from our staff and from us with regard to
recommendations coming for the budgets of DAS.
MR. FRENCH: And if you wouldn't mind, Mr. Chair, the only
reason why in our talks, Commissioner McDaniel, with Humane
Society is that they don't receive benefit from us. We do pay them
for certain specialty surgeries. There are times like when we have
got criminal cases where we have to be able to transport animals that
may be involved in those criminal cases out of county for both
protection and their criminal case. We do use the Humane Society
both throughout the state of Florida as well as through your local
Humane Society. But any of the services that we receive from them,
we typically pay for those, and they receive no services from the
County.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But they are receiving county tax
dollars.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So that would -- they would not be
eligible under the scenario that you're suggesting.
Page 127 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 118
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: To be a voting member. They
could be a member. But I was suggesting that, again -- I've already
said what I said.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. I think I have a
motion. I may need to restate it. I'm not sure if I can, but I'm going
to give it a try, see where it goes.
That we have a seven-member board; that initially three
members constitute a quorum. We will revisit that quorum issue in
six months after we constitute a full board. We'll have county
commissioners each appointing a member, and we'll have two
at-large. But the first four members of the board will be the existing
members, and their terms will continue as advertised. So we may not
have five positions for each commissioner to appoint initially, but
eventually we will. So that's my motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we're waiving the
participation from the county tax dollars?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. That's -- if Jim Rich wants to
go back on the board and we decide that he would be a good person
to have on the board, and Love of Cats is getting some benefit
through a contract with the county, when an issue like that comes up
before the animal -- DAS Advisory Board, as Mr. French has
indicated, he would be excluded from participating in that -- in that
issue. That issue would come to us anyway for a final decision.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So that's the motion on that -- on
that ordinance.
MR. KLATZKOW: Just one thing, Commissioner, because
there's been conversation, and it's not part of your motion. The
conversation was that you have different levels of experience that
you've been looking for, but that would be part of the -- that would
just be part of the process --
Page 128 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 119
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. That's -- there's no
requirement in this.
MR. KLATZKOW: There's no requirement, but that would be
part of the considerations.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely. Yeah, we want
qualified people, but we'll determine who those are.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm okay with that. I'll second
that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I have a motion and
second on the ordinance dealing with the DAS Advisory Board. Any
further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. KLATZKOW: Would the Board like me to send a copy of
the revised ordinance by email separately so -- to ensure that
everybody's on board with it?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. I mean, I'm not sure what
you're asking.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, we made substantial changes to the
proposed ordinance, you know, which are fine. They're productive.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We changed the -- we changed the
section on membership. I think -- do we need -- oh, you're
suggesting sending it to us?
Page 129 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 120
MR. KLATZKOW: I'll just send it to you with the proposed
new ordinance.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. Just to make sure that we got
the language right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Mr. Chair, and the board
members of the DAS advisory committee, they should get a -- they
should get a copy of the new one --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- so that everybody's working
off the same sheet of music.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have two other
ordinances --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- that we've been dealing with for
quite some time. I remember the hobby breeders I brought to the
Board back in October of --
MS. PATTERSON: Last year.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- 2024.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
Item #9D
ORDINANCE 2025-44: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE 2013-33, AS AMENDED, WHICH ESTABLISHED
THE ANIMAL CONTROL ORDINANCE - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: So that does move us on to 9D, which is a
recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance
Page 130 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 121
No. 2013-33, as amended, which established the Animal Control
Ordinance.
Again, Mr. French is here to begin the discussion.
We've spent a lot of time on this one.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioners. Again, Jamie
French.
As discussed with even your Office of Special Magistrate, we
did have further follow-up. He did -- Mr. Neale did tell me that he
sent his legislative suggestions to Mr. Mullins, and he made one final
change just to be more consistent with Florida Statute. Other than
that, he said that this ordinance was clean, and it's going to help him
in his job in both making determinations and imposing fines and
giving orders and being able to add owners that well deserve to be on
the animal cruelty list. He'll have the ability to do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. FRENCH: But he had no further changes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll move for approval.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and second.
Any registered speakers on that item?
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any discussion from the Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll call for the vote. All in favor,
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
Page 131 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 122
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Item #9E
ORDINANCE 2025-45: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE 2013-55, WHICH ESTABLISHED THE
STANDARDS OF CARE FOR ANIMAL-RELATED BUSINESSES
AND ORGANIZATIONS, BREEDERS, AND RODEOS
ORDINANCE - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 9E.
This is a recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance
No. 2013-55 which established the standard of care for animal-related
businesses and organizations, breeders, and rodeos.
Again, Mr. French.
MR. FRENCH: Again, happy to answer any questions you
might have.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. No one's lit up. So we're
ready for a motion.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I move to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've got a motion and second.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
Page 132 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 123
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Well done.
MR. FRENCH: It took a little bit of time. Thank you for your
patience. Appreciate you all.
Item #10A
THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE THE MEMORANDUM OF
AGREEMENT (MOA) WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
VETERANS’ AFFAIRS (FDVA) FOR COLLIER COUNTY TO
TRANSFER $10 MILLION INTO A STATE OF FLORIDA
ESCROW ACCOUNT FOR OUTPATIENT SERVICES TO BE
PROVIDED AT THE STATE VETERANS’ NURSING HOME; (2)
APPROVE A SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE MOA FOR THE
STATE VETERANS’ NURSING HOME TO UPDATE THE LEGAL
DESCRIPTION AND BOUNDARY SURVEY FOR THE PROJECT;
AND (3) AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE ALL
REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION NECESSARY TO TRANSFER
OWNERSHIP, IN FEE SIMPLE ABSOLUTE, OF
APPROXIMATELY 23.59 ACRES OF COUNTY-OWNED
PROPERTY TO THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND (BOTIITF) OF THE
STATE OF FLORIDA FOR THE VETERANS’ NURSING HOME
AND OUTPATIENT SERVICES ONCE THE DOCUMENTS ARE
RECEIVED FROM THE BOTIITF AND APPROVED BY THE
COUNTY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE - MOTION TO APPROVE ALL
OF STAFF’S RECOMMENDATIONS BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us Item 10A.
Page 133 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 124
Item 10A is a recommendation to, one, approve and authorize the
Chair to execute the memorandum of agreement with the Florida
Department of Veterans Affairs for Collier County to transfer $10
million into a State of Florida escrow account for outpatient services
to be provided at the State Veterans Nursing Home; two, approve a
second amendment to the MOA for State Veterans Nursing Home to
update the legal description and boundary survey for the project; and,
three, authorize the Chair to execute all required documentation
necessary to transfer ownership in fee simple absolute of
approximately 23.59 acres of county-owned property to the Board of
Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund of the State of
Florida for the veterans nursing home and outpatient services once
the documents are received from the Board of Trustees and approved
by the County Attorney's Office.
This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Mr. Mullins, if you're near by, kind of help us walk through
these. This is another good-news item. And I see the Clerk is not
here, so we should approve these pretty quickly.
MR. MULLINS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record,
John Mullins, your director of Communications, Government, and
Public Affairs.
And Troy will put on the screens here some upcoming
milestones, several of which are today. And in my estimation, this is
probably the last big lift of the Board in moving this project forward
to construction.
And as was read into the record by the County Manager, today
you'll be updating the legal description and property sketch of the
existing MOA for the $30 million that was for the skilled nursing
facility portion of the project, you'll be creating and signing a new
MOA transferring $10 million of surplus surtax funds for the ADHC,
Page 134 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 125
the adult day healthcare, and outpatient services portion of the
project, and you'll be granting the Chair the authority to execute the
property transfer once the State gives the green light for that to occur,
which could occur anytime between now and December.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. There's one other -- just one
little wrinkle here. It's not anything of any significance, but just one I
need to kind of clarify the record on. There is a limited-use
agreement with The Gate golf developers to use the portion of the
veterans nursing home site for staging. It's a limited staging, but
it's -- and this agreement goes until July of 2026. There's a provision
in the agreement that it can be terminated with, I believe, 60 days'
notice or -- it may even be less than that. But there is a termination
provision in there, at the County's will without any cause, and the
same thing for the other party can terminate without cause.
What I'd like to do is make sure that -- first of all, I know the
Department of Veterans Affairs is aware of this limited-use
agreement. I want to make sure that we're working with the Florida
Department of Veterans' Affairs so that we can continue that use
agreement in place. Once the property's transferred, perhaps have the
Department of Veterans Affairs continue to permit that use on that
property.
And so Mr. Mullins and I would work with the Florida
Department of Veterans' Affairs just to make sure that we're all good
on this limited-use agreement.
I want to make sure that there is no delay in the development of
the veterans' nursing home. So if it gets to a point where the
groundbreaking is going to be sooner than July of next year, then we
will have to have a conversation with The Gate folks about their
agreement. But I just wanted to say something for the record that
we're going to try to keep that agreement in place.
Commissioner McDaniel.
Page 135 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 126
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And just as an aside,
maybe give consideration to -- we just offered -- if I'm not mistaken,
we've already voted for the extension on the second phase of the
housing affordability development, and there's a tract of land in
behind that that's being constructed right now, that maybe that could
be used as a staging facility and free up the veterans' site in its
entirety. So maybe you could look into that and move quicker on this
so we don't have the VA chirping.
MR. MULLINS: And just so you know, when the contractor for
The Gate reached out to facilities looking to use the property -- a
portion of the property as the staging area. That was kind of ran
through the grapevine up to the Department of Management Services
at the State to make sure they were okay with it, since, you know,
eventually this was going to be their property. And, of course, being
good neighbors, they signed off on that and agreed to allow it to
occur through July.
So nobody up in Tallahassee's going to be surprised by this, and
I think everybody will still continue to work hand in hand making
sure that everything leads to a groundbreaking no later than July.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And, Ms. Kinzel, I was
just kidding about rushing this through while you weren't here. I see
you're here. Do you have anything you want to add?
MS. KINZEL: No, thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I wasn't kidding. I thought it
was a good idea.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, it was a good idea until she
showed up.
All right. So we have a couple different agreements to approve.
We can do it all in one motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
Page 136 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 127
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Mullins, do you
need any clarification on the motion?
MR. MULLINS: No, as long as it's covering the updating of the
existing MOA, the creation of the new MOA for the 10 million
ADHC, and granting the Chair the authority to execute the property
transfer once the State agrees to the property transfer.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's exactly what I wanted you to
say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's what I said.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's the motion and the second.
Any further discussion? Any registered speakers?
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
I want to thank our staff. They've really worked hard on getting
all of this together. I see Colleen Greene is here from the County
Attorney's Office. She's worked really diligently to get these
agreements. We have folks from Real Property that are here.
Ms. Belpedio worked on this, and John, of course. So thank you for
getting all these things together.
MR. MULLINS: And there are several others as well, not to
leave out Facilities Management, Brian DeLony; Development
Review, Jaime Cook and her team. As a matter of fact, when we had
Page 137 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 128
the last big pow-wow with the State, I think we outnumbered them
2-1. So it was a big team of county employees making sure that this
project moves forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't want to overstate this, and I
know this entire board has been 100 percent behind this project. This
is ultimately going to be about a 120-million-plus project. They're
going to employee a couple hundred people there full-time, most of
which will be professionals, nurses and people in the medical arena,
and it's going to be a great asset for the County. But I really want to
thank our staff for moving this thing along and getting us to where
we are.
There are no impediments at this point that we can see. The
money's there, and everything is ready to go. All of the design work
will be finished by November 7th, and so things are -- things are
moving.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I was just going to add, I think
it goes without saying -- and maybe, John, you're the person that
carries this water. But the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs,
General Hartsell and his family, I mean, what great partners they've
been. I mean, when we've gone up to Tallahassee, all the time
they've made for us.
Them seeing the same vision that we saw, they could have easily
said, "Yeah, I see what you're saying, but, you know, we've got five
other locations, you know. Get in line" kind of thing. I mean, they
got on board very quickly, and a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff
they did -- so, you know, if you wind up talking to them before us --
it looks like we're headed back to Tallahassee maybe later this fall. I
just saw in an email that we all might be going in November. But I
just think, you know, relaying our thanks and our appreciation for
them being just such great partners and helping steer us a bit, too.
Page 138 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 129
There was more than a few times that General Hartsell and his
team made some suggestions and recommendations to us to make
sure we're all paddling in the same canoe and in the same direction,
and now you see the fruits of everybody's labor, so...
MR. MULLINS: Actually, Chief of Staff Al Carter is expecting
a phone call from me as soon as this meeting is over.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, Al didn't do anything.
No, I'm just kidding.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, there's one other group
that -- while we're thanking folks -- our legislative delegation and, in
particular Kathleen Passidomo. Early on, our delegation, with the
help of Senator Passidomo, put a half a million dollars in the
Department of Veterans' Affairs budget for the sole purpose of
preliminary design work of our facility so we could move things
along.
Then, because we weren't on the ranking list for the next nursing
home, our delegation and Senator Passidomo filed a bill to require the
Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs to name the next two nursing
homes. Since we had the local match, they put us on that list.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You're giving away all the
secrets. You don't want to put that stuff on the -- "Hey, we just got
it."
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The secret is if any community
wants to put up $30 million for a nursing home, they can -- they can
get one.
So it's really been a collaborative effort from the legislature all
the way through this commission, so thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: There was a motion and second
already.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We approved it all.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We haven't voted yet. I guess
Page 139 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 130
that's important. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did have a question.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have the -- has the federal
government signed off on this? I know we were up on their
appropriations list, but has it been formally --
MR. MULLINS: Yes. The ranking list came out at the end of
the summer, and we were 1.3, which is a state with great need for
new construction, and -- so we were the only project in that category.
And then about 60 days after that, we received a letter from the VA
stating that full funding was available, $74 million, their 65 percent
of the federal -- or the federal match was available during this FY '25
fiscal year. So all of that will be provided to fully fund the project
from their end. So we're in great -- we have achieved a reasonable
degree of certainty, as it's called.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, just another point with what
the legislature did, they did appropriate $10 million for our -- for the
adult day healthcare center, but it was also for the veterans' nursing
home. And so they've been spending their money to do all of the
design work. So the $500,000 went away fairly quickly, but they've
been -- they put up the rest of the money for all of the design work.
All right. Thank you.
Page 140 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 131
Item #10B
AN EXPENDITURE OF $500,000 IN INFRASTRUCTURE SALES
SURTAX FUNDS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A
DECELERATION AND TURN LANE FOR THE GOLDEN GATE
PARKWAY ENTRANCE TO THE STATE VETERANS’
NURSING HOME PROJECT AND APPROVE ALL NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 10B.
This is a recommendation to approve an expenditure of $500,000 in
infrastructure sales surtax funds for the construction of a deceleration
and turn lane for the Golden Gate Parkway entrance to the State
Veterans' Nursing Home project and approve all necessary budget
amendments.
This item is also brought to the agenda by Commissioner
Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Mullins, if you could let us
know how the One-Cent Sales Tax Advisory Board, how they
handled this. I know they voted in favor of this. And just for the
Board's edification, part of the reason that we brought this forward is
that there's been interest earned on those dollars, and this will ensure
that there are no shortfalls in the project.
MR. MULLINS: Yes. First, to start off, if you look at your
screen there, you're looking at the Golden Gate Parkway rear
entrance to the facility. The VA requires two ingress and egress
points for their nursing homes that they help finance. The main
entrance to this one, of course, will be off of 951 at 27th Street, and
eventually that will be a signaled intersection. But that signaled
Page 141 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 132
intersection probably won't come online until just about the time the
facility is being completed.
So what is really needed is a safe ingress and egress point for the
construction crews, which we've identified the rear entrance to
Golden Gate Parkway as being the best of those two entrances to
allow that to happen. That rear entrance will also be for goods and
service delivery and staff entrance and exiting of the facility as well.
And as the Chair was mentioning, when you pledged the $10
million for the ADHC and outpatient services two years ago, of
course, that money remained in our coffers. That money started to
gain interest, which Mr. Johnson from our budget office has
estimated is somewhere in the neighborhood of about $700,000.
We're looking for $500,000 of that interest to apply towards this
deceleration and turn lane.
And before you ask why should we pay for it, a couple of
reasons. Number one, this is not on the nursing home property;
therefore, it does not qualify for the federal matching funds. It would
have to be paid for 100 percent by the State of Florida. Now, we
could also wait for the State of Florida to jump through all their rings
to get this completed as well, but it would be quicker for the County
to design, pay for, and construct this with the goal of having it ready
by the groundbreaking, which should occur no later than July, to
allow for the construction crews to enter and exit from this location.
And on this slide here that you see, that's kind of what the
deceleration and turn lane will look like coming off of the Parkway.
It will not be a four-way because there are some utilities in the
middle there that would not make that practical. But there will be a
right-in and a right-out, which should be all that they really need to
get in and out with construction vehicles, et cetera.
And I'm happy to answer -- oh, just another thing. All of the
interest on our other MOAs, for the 10 -- or for the $30 million, et
Page 142 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 133
cetera, has been applied to the project. That was part of the
agreement. So what we're asking for here is to just pledge some of
the interest that we have gained from our own coffers towards the
project as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Anyone registered to
speak on this item?
MR. MILLER: (Shakes head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't see anybody lit up. I'll
make a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. MULLINS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Free money.
Item #11A
RESOLUTION 2025-194: BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS APPROVE A RESOLUTION, AMENDING
RESOLUTION NO. 2007-300, AS AMENDED, THE
PURCHASING POLICY FOR THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
PROGRAM, FOR THE PURPOSE OF INCLUDING MITIGATION
EXPENSES AND ADJUSTMENTS WITHIN THE APPRAISED
Page 143 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 134
VALUE OF THE PROPERTY. (JAIME COOK, DIVISION
DIRECTOR - DEVELOPMENT REVIEW) - MOTION TO
APPROVE W/CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 11A.
This is a recommendation that the -- oh, this item was continued from
the April 22nd, 2025, Board meeting.
This is a recommendation that the Board of County
Commissioners approve a resolution amending Resolution
No. 2007-300, as amended, the purchasing policy for the
Conservation Collier program, for the purpose of including
mitigation expenses and adjustments within the appraised value of
the property.
We have Ms. Trinity Scott here to begin the presentation, and
she will be cohosting here with Jaime Cook, your Development
Review director.
MS. COOK: 11A. It's in there.
MR. MILLER: It's in there, okay.
MS. COOK: Yes.
MS. SCOTT: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Another
agenda item that I feel we've been working on for a really long time.
Today we're here to discuss modifications to the Conservation
Collier purchasing policy. If you will remember way back in
February, the Board directed us to review the purchasing policy and
make some adjustments, but during that time when we were making
those adjustments, the Clerk's Inspector General's office also kind of
did an audit of our purchasing -- our most recent purchases, and they
had some recommendations as well. So we're bringing all of those
kind of all pulled back together into a nice, neat bow. These
revisions have been presented to the CCLAC most recently in
Page 144 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 135
August, and they have some additional proposed -- or some
comments related to the provisions.
The summary of the changes are we are adding zoning and
location criteria to our purchase evaluation process allowing the use
of the lower appraisal value rather than the average for price
negotiations when multiple appraisals are obtained; clarifying that the
appraised value is a ceiling, not a required offer amount; requiring
written procedures for third-party appraisals to ensure consistency;
and establish parameters for use of our appraisals that are older than a
year old.
The results of the adoption of this policy will culminate into
some internal policy changes for us that we will update some
standard operating procedures and develop checklists so that we
make sure that we have internal consistency.
So just to go quickly through some of the changes. If the
estimated value of the property is less than $500,000, we would
secure one appraisal. Those appraisals will include reconciled costs.
"Reconciled costs" means reasonable adjustments supported by the
appraisal's analysis. That will include mitigation expenses and other
soft costs such as permitting and environmental remediation. So if
you have a property that is in large part wetlands, it will be taking
into consideration what it would take to actually build on the
property, such as mitigation costs, fill, et cetera, when we're
determining our purchase price.
And the purchase price would be the verified lower listing price
if the property is listed. We've had that during some of our reviews
where the property was listed out on the MLS so -- at a lower price
than what our appraisers were. So we don't want to go offer more
than what they were asking.
Once again, just verifying that if there's a lower listing price,
that we would only be offering that, and that when there's more than
Page 145 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 136
one appraisal, that the purchase price would be based on the lowest of
the appraised values.
And before the County would order an appraisal on property,
there was some discussion about wetland determinations for the
property and that -- the proposed language has that the owner would
provide a wetland determination for the property that's no older than
five years at their sole cost and expense, and I'll talk a little bit about
the CCLAC's recommendations in a few moments.
With regard to our appraisal methodology and comparables,
properties that are listed for sale or pending properties would not be
used for comparables. Other Conservation Collier properties would
not be used as comparables either. And if our comparable sales
needed to be outside of the county, we would just need to make sure
that we really show differences in zoning, land-use designation, or
development potential, and that's clearly identified. And this kind of
goes also into those checklists that I was talking about.
Our vision for this is that we're going to have a checklist for our
third-party appraisers to make sure that they're following this, but
then we also have a checklist for our own internal review as we're
going through it as well.
The CCLAC heard this, as noted earlier. They supported the
look at the program and consistency with market adjustments and a
formal internal review process of our appraisals. They did have some
concerns with regard to the survey for wetlands and listed species,
that it's going to add time to the process. They also felt that the
county should bear the cost of the determinations, not the seller, and
they would also prefer that we utilized the average of the two
appraisals as the cap for the purchase price instead of the lower of the
two appraisals.
So we are here before you today with a recommendation to
approve the resolution amending 2007-300 as presented.
Page 146 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 137
And I have Jaime Cook and Jen Belpedio and also Sally Ashkar
from the County Attorney's Office, all of whom have worked on this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Do we have any public
comment?
MR. MILLER: Yes, we do, sir. We have two.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I don't see anybody lit
up here, so let's go to the public comment.
MR. MILLER: We'll start with Brad Cornell, and he will be
followed on Zoom by Bridget Washburn.
MR. CORNELL: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and
Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on just one second. Did you
want -- do you have some questions now, or do you want to wait?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. You said you didn't have
anybody litted up, and I didn't want you to be alone, so I'm lit up
now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll go through both
public comments.
MR. CORNELL: Okay. I'm Brad Cornell, and I'm here on
behalf of Audubon Western Everglades and Audubon Florida and its
Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary, collectively Audubon. Audubon is
very appreciative of the vote last Thursday by three commissioners to
continue funding Conservation Collier. For all the commissioners,
there appear to be some questions and more information needed
about that program.
To address that information need and for the public's benefit, it
may be useful to consider a workshop dedicated to Conservation
Collier issues in the near future.
Audubon is fine with all the revisions proposed today for the
Conservation Collier purchasing policy except one; the requirement
that people applying to sell their land to Conservation Collier provide
Page 147 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 138
a wetland determination is a problem. We strongly object to this new
policy as a -- as a disincentive for people to even apply to sell to
Conservation Collier. Wetland determs can cost anywhere from $300
to thousands depending on the size of the property and how legally
sufficient you want that determination to be. It will also add further
government delays in negotiating contracts.
Audubon Western Everglades has provided a revision to this
unwise policy which we believe will protect the County from
overpaying and not dis-incentivize applying to Conservation Collier.
It relies on existing staff expertise on straightforward wetland
determinations as well as continuing the long-standing practice of
appraising all multi-parcel projects as 100 percent wetlands. That's
what we do today. It's -- you know, it's a very quick, very efficient
process, and that should continue. It also proposes the County hire a
consultant to make wetland determinations for those very few parcels
that have complicated or ambiguous wetland status.
And I have a draft, but this is in your backup for this item. So
you've already seen this policy that Audubon Western Everglades has
proposed that we think would be effective.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Could we get a copy of that, have it
on the overhead.
MR. CORNELL: It's one of your backup -- backup items there.
Additionally, I want to point out -- so that's the -- that's our
suggested revisions in yellow with some underline, and what's above
is what's the current text proposed.
Additionally, in talking with folks familiar with land
acquisitions and wetland determinations in the development world, it
is our understanding that the typical outcome of wetland
determinations shows significantly less wetlands on the property than
originally indicated by remote general wetland databases like the
National Wetland Inventory or Soils Map -- I'll be done in just a
Page 148 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 139
second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, go ahead. I interrupted you,
so take another minute.
MR. CORNELL: That's all right. Thanks.
So that, of course, will result in higher prices for the County,
because you're going to see more uplands, and it will be more
developable based on that wetland determination.
So for that reason, it may be most wise to delete the proposed
revision about wetland determinations and rely on remote databases
and staff expertise. That's -- you know, if our intent is not to
overpay, then that might be the best policy in the long run.
Thank you for considering our recommended purchasing policy
revisions. Appreciate it.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
MR. MILLER: -- next and final speaker joins you on Zoom,
Bridget Washburn.
Bridget, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
that at this time. And there you are. Bridget, you have three minutes.
MS. WASHBURN: Okay. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Commissioners, and thanks for the opportunity
to speak. I'm Bridget Washburn, executive director of Audubon
Western Everglades. Thank you for your ongoing support of the
Conservation Collier program.
Audubon Western Everglades welcomes the review and input
from the Clerk's Office of the Inspector General regarding the
appraisal process used for Conservation Collier, as it's similar to that
used for all lands purchased by the County.
We're glad to see this move forward because we've been
concerned about the delay in land acquisition their view has created.
It has prevented the purchase of properties recommended for
Page 149 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 140
acquisition since February. Waiting for the new revisions to the
purchasing policy has also held back the mailing of offer letters to
owners of lands within the four large multi-parcel projects.
As Brad Cornell just shared, Audubon Western Everglades
supports most of the recommended provisions to the purchasing
policy; however, like he said, we do object to requiring wetland
determinations from the public applying to sell their conservation
lands.
To address this application disincentive, please do consider
using our proposed revisions to Policy Section II.A(2)c. It should
still protect the County from overpaying, and it could also be
welcoming to new applicants.
At the moment, we have a great opportunity to fill it many
pieces of what amounts to being a large land conservation puzzle.
And so we urge you to get back to Conservation Collier's purpose of
buying and managing Conservation Collier lands that no one else is
going to protect.
One final comment about the need for protecting wetlands. It is
up to us to protect these areas so they can do what they naturally do
to hold and cleanse stormwater and make our community more
resilient. During last week's budget hearing, a public comment was
made asserting that swamps and wetlands need less protection
because they're largely unbuildable.
Commissioner LoCastro very aptly addressed the statement
pointing out that wetlands are vulnerable to development seeing as
how one of the biggest wetlands in District 1 is now the huge
development of Fiddler's Creek. So these areas do need protection.
We look forward to continuing our collaboration with you, your
staff, and the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory
Committee. Audubon Western Everglades thanks the Commission
for all your time that you spend to make the program successful and
Page 150 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 141
the efforts you've taken to assure that the best and most conservation
lands can be protected to benefit the community as a whole. We
very, very much appreciate your work, so thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.
Trinity, I appreciate you clarifying the listing price thing. That
was -- that was confusing to me, but now I understand why. You
wanted to make sure that the property isn't already listed for sale at a
lower price. I wasn't able to believe that we wouldn't already know
that, but I understand that now.
Now let's talk about the wetlands determination aspect of this.
I'm not in complete favor of what the Audubon has suggested here,
nor am I in complete disagreement either. And you know as well as I
do when you're doing jurisdictionals with regard to what is wetland
and what is upland, that boundary between the two is somewhat
negotiable as you're going along.
I certainly don't think that it's prudent for us in the TPAs or in
those large parcels -- I think you referred to them as large-parcel
areas, designating them all as wetlands because they're not all
wetlands, those parcels that are included in there.
So I want to have a discussion about some sense of reality. I --
the concern is is if we put the onus on the seller, the representations
are that it could be a -- could be a restriction of a motivating factor
for a seller to participate in the Conservation Collier program, but on
the same token, if we don't do some sort of a wetland delineation,
then we're leaving ourselves open to other criticism with regard to
what it is we're paying -- paying for the land.
And I my question is is, what's the happy medium in the real
world?
MS. COOK: So Jaime Cook, your Development Review
Page 151 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 142
director.
Currently, the way the program is operating in the four
multi-parcel projects, Gore, Winchester Head, Panther Walk, and Red
Maple, when the appraisals are done, they provide a tier that it's 0 to
25 percent wetlands with a price, 25 to 50 with a price, and so on, all
the way up to 100 percent wetlands.
The offer amount currently -- with the current process is
automatically the 100 percent wetland price is the offer amount
unless the owner provides a determination that they've had previously
done that shows otherwise. We have not had anybody actually give
us a determination that has shown anything else. They've either
accepted the offer or not accepted the offer currently.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So if I can repeat that to you
so that I can clarify what I heard was we are offering 100 percent.
Within these multi-parcel areas, TPAs, we're offering 100 percent
wetland as the valuation?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's our walking in the front
door. If the seller decides that it's something different, then they have
to go get their own -- or provide us with a wetland determination that
refutes what we're offering?
MS. COOK: That is the current practice, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I like that. I think that's the
most prudent path for us to, in fact, travel. I mean -- and it doesn't --
I guess if we change the word "must provide a wetland" to "may
provide a wetland determination for the property" in the actual
ordinance because above -- and I'm in A2, I think, if we change it to
"may."
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Correct. C.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: "May provide a wetland
determination" and take the musts out of the wetland determination.
Page 152 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 143
That would accomplish exactly what we're doing, unless their --
unless the property is outside --
MS. COOK: That went off.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the TPA.
MS. COOK: -- sorry, Troy.
Yes. If they wanted to say that their property was anything
other than 100 percent wetlands, if they provide it to us -- may
provide it to us, then we would look at that valuation differently.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, could you put the
overhead back on?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I think we're all in the dark
here. Everything just shut off.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Everything shut off. We had a
surge.
That's John Mullins' fault, right?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, it's John Mullins'.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And he's in charge of the
veterans' nursing home? Let's change that immediately.
MS. COOK: It might have been me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Jaime kicked something.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The one switch under there, with
her leg, and it shuts everything off in the room.
MS. COOK: It may have been me. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, our computers went off, too.
That's what I'm saying. So that switch --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That pedal controls
everything.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We blame Jaime, not you,
Trinity, just so you know. Stay away from her. There you go.
MS. SCOTT: It's the energy.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, anything
Page 153 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 144
else?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I just want to clarify the
point, I guess, because, I mean, we -- what happens when a piece of
property's offered to Conservation Collier that's outside of a TPA?
We actually order an appraisal, and then the appraisers does a percent
delineation of wetlands based upon the aerial photos; is that what I'm
hearing?
MS. COOK: Typically, yes. And guidance from Conservation
Collier staff when they've looked at the property upon the initial
application.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do we actually go out and
walk each one of those properties?
MS. COOK: Typically, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so when a property
outside of a TPA is offered, the appraiser has an estimation of the
wetland or environmentally sensitive areas, and then we have our
own, and then we add those two together, and if the seller refutes
that, then the seller gives us their own wetland determination?
MS. COOK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
That was just exactly my comments.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If we determine the property
to be wet, the seller, if they feel different, they could go get their own
determination and provide that to us.
As a dis -- anything being a disincentive for conservation, I feel
like we are the only choice a lot of these people have. I mean, there's
not buyers lined up. So I'm not really worried about that. And we
ultimately determine if we overpay or not. That has really nothing to
do -- I mean, we wag that tail.
Page 154 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 145
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The language that Brad Cornell
and Audubon provided seems to address the issues we're talking
about. Do you have any issues with that language? Because it goes
further than just simply saying "may provide an informal wetland
determination," but I like what it says here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And my reading of this is is in
the real estate world, there's no such thing as simple and clear status.
Your opinion and my opinion as buyer and seller are two different
things, and that's -- that's where I think our policies that we have in
place cover us well enough. I'd be happy with the first change that
they have, "may provide." I don't care for the "informal." I think -- I
think it needs to be a formal wetland determination, because I
could -- I could go hire somebody -- anybody to go do one.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I just think "must" to "may" is
the fix.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Change "must" to "may."
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: "Must" to "may" and let 'er
rip.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: "Must" to "may" is the fix.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. We'll just keep our
language. It does the same thing.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Too many words.
MS. COOK: If I can chime in on the informal versus formal.
Only the State can do formal determinations. Consultants and the
County cannot do formal determinations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, those are --
MS. COOK: Those are only done by the State.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, okay. Than "may provide
an informal wetland" would still be a qualified wetland determination
but not formal.
MS. COOK: Correct.
Page 155 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 146
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Those changes that the
Audubon's provided is fine. I think the rest of what we have will
cover us.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Then there's another
kind of a wording issue because the next phrase, "Unless the property
has already been identified as a wetland by Conservation Collier
staff, in which case no such determination will be required," well, no
such determination is even -- is being required at all. So I'm not sure
if that language is confusing or is necessary.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think it might fall in the line
that we're only offering them the wetland price to begin with.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. We're charging --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And if they feel that that's in
error, then they can go and get a wetland determination and say, hey,
we should get the higher tier price, and that will fall back on the
seller.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's pretty simple, I think.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't think -- I don't think
the County should assume that responsibility. If what I heard Jaime
say was -- Ms. Cook. If what I heard her say was we offer the
100 percent wetland price and they refute that, then they can go get
their own determination, and then we'll talk about.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Kowal,
do you have anything else?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, I just -- I kind of chimed in.
That was actually where I was going with it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Cornell, a question
for you, if you wouldn't mind coming back up to the podium.
MR. CORNELL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You've obviously been very much
Page 156 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 147
involved in Conservation Collier for a long time in the whole process.
If we change the word "must" to "may," leave everything the same,
does that create, in your mind, any issues, or are you okay with that?
MR. CORNELL: I'm okay with it. The only other issue, if I
may throw that out there, that the rest of the -- our recommended
revisions were aimed at were the question of staff providing expert
opinion about wetland status. And so -- this is a question actually for
your staff. If they are comfortable providing expert opinions about is
a piece of property wetland or upland or some combination, then you
don't need that. But there was a question in my mind and Audubon's
mind whether there would be some complicated parcels that had
wetlands. Is this a wetland? Is this -- what is this? Things that
looked ambiguous maybe you want to go hire a consultant to do that.
And those would be very few and far between. That's the way that's
written. That was why that's there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MS. COOK: And I think that it's also in part there because not
every parcel we get is part of a multi-parcel project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MS. COOK: So we may have larger parcels that may be more
ambiguous, as Mr. Cornell said, or have more complicated
determinations that would need to be done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And that also is
covered in the processes that you already, in fact, have in place. We
order -- we have a property that's ordered up. We order an appraisal.
The appraiser makes a determination as to the wetlands. Seller
accepts our offer or doesn't. And if they don't, then they provide us
with their own wetland determination, and then we -- and then -- and
in the meantime, we've trooped staff out to go walk the property and
Page 157 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 148
have a look-see as to whether the estimates of the wetlands are, in
fact, correct or not, and we've actually -- I think we covered that all
the way -- all the way through by starting out at a 100 percent
wetlands for the TPAs. And then the other properties that are outside
of those can be -- can be negotiated with the seller.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I think we're probably
ready for a motion at this point.
MS. COOK: The only other thing, unless Trinity has
something, that we may need some guidance on is that very last
sentence that's not highlighted, that if we're not going to necessarily
require a determination --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't -- we're not using
this. This is put up here for an example.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We're using yours --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're changing the word "must" to
"may" in Section c that you've --
MS. COOK: Correct, but that last sentence is the same in both,
that the appraisal cannot proceed until a determination is received.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It shouldn't be. I don't think
an appraisal should be done until those things are delineated.
MS. COOK: I think -- well, if we're going to say that -- like, for
the multi-parcel projects, for example, that they are all wet, I don't
know that I need a determination.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I look at it this way: If they
accept the price, then you don't need a determination.
MS. COOK: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Right?
MS. COOK: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, that's the point.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And eventually, when we go in
Page 158 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 149
there to clear the exotics, stuff like that, we can make a closer
determination of how we treat it or how we don't treat it, at that point,
once we own it.
I don't see why we're getting in the weeds -- so deep in these
weeds. "Weeds" a pun. But I think we're more or less talking about
buying the property now. It's an easier, smoother process of
purchasing this property without us competing against ourselves
every time we buy these properties. So I think that's where we're at.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm totally comfortable with staff
determining whether a property's wetland or upland. I mean, it's not
rocket science.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's rocket science.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's science, but it's not rocket
science.
I'm going to make a motion to approve this ordinance with the
change of "must" to "may."
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the addition of
"informal." And the addition of "informal." The informal wetland
determination, that delineates --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Oh, yes, and the addition of
"informal," since we don't have the capability of doing it formally.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you'll do that, I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
Page 159 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 150
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Uh-oh. We're in trouble now.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Too late.
MS. KINZEL: This is good news. And thank you,
Commissioner. But it really is good news, because I must say I think
that we've worked so closely with staff. What we were seeing, the
things that we looked at, I think it is a better product.
I just want to assure Brad and others, I think you'll have more
money to spend on all the properties. I think this is such a fiscal
move in the right direction that it will eventually benefit the project.
But it's a good example of working -- and, yes, it took a couple
months, but I think you have something that's better for the taxpayer
and better for conservation. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Item #11F
THE COUNTY MANAGER TO SIGN THE LOW INCOME POOL
LETTER OF AGREEMENT WITH THE AGENCY FOR HEALTH
CARE ADMINISTRATION, IN THE AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED
$2,371,401, TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEDICAID CENTRAL
RECEIVING FACILITY LOW INCOME POOL PROGRAM,
GENERATING $3,171,846.24 IN FEDERAL MATCHING FUNDS
FOR THE BENEFIT OF DAVID LAWRENCE MENTAL HEALTH
CENTER, TO SIGN THE PROVIDER QUESTIONNAIRE TO
ASSIST IN MEETING THE STATE REQUIRED MATCH
OBLIGATION, AND AUTHORIZE NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2026 BUDGET IN THE
Page 160 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 151
AMOUNT $594,235.91. (FISCAL IMPACT $2,371,401. GENERAL
FUND 0001) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 11F.
This was formerly 16D8. This is a recommendation to approve and
authorize the County Manager to sign the Low Income Pool Letter of
Agreement with the Agency for Health Care Administration in the
amount not to exceed $2,371,401, to participate in the Medicaid
Central Receiving Facility Low Income Pool Program generating
$3,171,846.24 in federal matching funds for the benefit of David
Lawrence Mental Health Center, to sign the provider questionnaire to
assist in meeting the State-required match obligation, and authorize
the necessary budget amendments to the Fiscal Year 2026 budget in
the amount of $594,235.19.
This item was moved at Commissioner Hall's request.
And Ms. Kristi Sonntag is here to present or answer questions.
She is the Director of Community and Human Services.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, do you want a
presentation or do you --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I don't need a presentation. I just --
I pulled this forward just for some discussion.
You know where my heart is. I'm looking to save the taxpayers'
money. And when I saw this, I thought, you know what, we've given
David Lawrence Center $56 million to build their house. We've
given them naming rights to raise their money. And I don't know if
it's government's job to continue pitching into a low-income pool just
to be matched. I understand the importance of it. I really -- I mean, I
really understand the importance of it.
But I asked the County Attorney, if we didn't participate in the
Page 161 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 152
LIP, could David Lawrence participate in it and still get the match,
and the answer is yes.
So I just wanted to bring it up for a small discussion or not
discussion at all and see if that's where we want to continue going. I
know we've done that in the past, and we've done it in the past, and
we've done it in the past, but that doesn't necessarily make it worthy
of doing it today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and when I saw this
come up, my question was, well, what would happen if Collier
County applied for these funds and then distributed them in a
different manner other than to -- what are those two talking about?
How are you going to answer my question when you're over there?
MS. SONNTAG: I'm sorry, Commissioner. Could you
please -- oh, Kristi Sonntag, Community/Human Services director for
the record.
Could you repeat your question, please.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd be happy to.
MS. SONNTAG: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have all these thoughts that
come up, and then you're --
MS. SONNTAG: I know. Then I scooted over. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The -- the question was, could
the County apply for these funds and redistribute them to other
caregivers?
MS. SONNTAG: The allocation has the $1.7 million that the
County has adopted in the Fiscal Year '26 budget that is being used to
contribute to the low-income pool program. Those funds are part of
the statutory match requirement. So you can direct your funds
however you see fit, if that's what you're asking me.
Page 162 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 153
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think I know the -- I think the
answer is David Lawrence is one of the only qualified people to
participate in the match, if I'm not --
MS. SONNTAG: For this particular low-income pool, because
it's for the central receiving facility, you are correct; they're the only
ones who are able.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right. So the only choice that we
really have is do we want to -- if we want to pitch in the 1.7, we can.
If we want to do a lesser amount, we can. If we don't want to do it at
all, we can. They still get the 500 and something thousand from the
Sheriff, which will be matched with the feds. And it's just -- you
know, I don't really care. I don't have an ax to grind here, but at some
point in time, we said that we would start taking a look at the way we
spend money, and this is one of those ways that we look.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What is the amount of money that
comes back?
MS. SONNTAG: The multiplier?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. What is the multiplier? I
know it changes.
MS. SONNTAG: The multiplier -- so the County's adopted
General Fund budget allocated $1,777,165. The multiplier from the
feds is 3,171,846, which yields to David Lawrence Center
5.5 million.
COMMISSIONER HALL: After the Sheriff's match?
MS. SONNTAG: Yeah, because we combined the Sheriff's
$594,000 that they provide to David Lawrence Center for in-jail
services with our 1.7 million to equate to the 2.3 for the LIP LOA.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So it's -- obviously, it's a financial
benefit that all communities are able -- or a lot of institutions are able
to benefit in.
Page 163 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 154
Mr. Burgess, can you tell us what you're going to do with that
money?
MR. BURGESS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just kind of in general because --
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So for the record, Scott
Burgess, David Lawrence Centers. I appreciate the opportunity to be
here.
Those dollars -- and great questions and happy to answer any
additional questions. So we are the only qualifying organization in
Collier County for this program because of our designation as a
community mental health center and because of the central receiving
facility functions that we provide. The central receiving functions
that we provide and why we're eligible for this funding is because we
provide so much uncompensated care. Between the number of folks
that come to us for services that are completely uninsured and have
low income and those that have Medicaid, it's 80 percent. So eight
out of every 10 individuals.
So therefore, there's this program that was established through
the federal government low-income pool in order to help with
absorbing all of that care cost in a way that keeps doors open for
these critical services.
So when we say, "What are we using the money for?" it's for the
increase in services that we're providing to Collier County residents
that are in need, of which the vast majority of them are lower income
and have either no insurance or are underinsured.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any registered speakers?
MR. MILLER: (Shakes head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then we're ready for a motion. I
don't see anybody lit up here. To get it on the floor, I'll make a
motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
Page 164 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 155
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. Any discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Maybe we can take a look at next
year's budget so that this money's not budgeted. We've got to start
somewhere y'all. So I'm done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I'm -- I mean, it's
budgeted but it's discretionary at the same time. I appreciate the
conversation of not just doing it because we've always done it. So,
I -- I'm in support of the motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. We have a
motion and second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. BURGESS: Thank you.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15.
Page 165 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 156
Item 15A is public comments on general topics not on the current or
future agenda by individuals not already heard during the previous
public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
MS. PATTERSON: Very good.
Item #15B
STAFF PROJECT UPDATES - NIM HANDOUT DISCUSSION
(STAFF REQUEST) - DISCUSSED; NIMS WILL SOON BE
ADVERTISED ON THE CLERK’S WEBSITE
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to staff project updates. We
do have one, which was our add-on item. This is a discussion on our
NIM handout. And I see Mr. Giblin is coming up for this.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So a couple meetings ago I
had mentioned that I was on the opposite end of a couple of bad
NIMs. And we all have been, where, you know, citizens fire off a
bunch of emails to us saying, "Why weren't commissioners at the
NIM, and we just got briefed at the NIM that, you know, such and
such is being built and already approved."
And so Cormac and his team put together, basically, a one-page
handout that, you know, hits home to citizens. And this would be
handed out at the NIM. We always have county staff at the NIM as
observers, but to maybe have them a little more proactive at the
NIMs to hand this out to people who attend. And it stresses, you're
about to hear a proposal of a possible project, and then it explains to
them the different steps between what the Planning Commission is
and what it isn't. The Planning Commission gives a
recommendation, not approval.
And so this is -- and then we've got a QR code on here where if
Page 166 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 157
it somebody takes a picture of that, it sends them to the County
website and gives them even more information. But, you know, just
sort of a one-pager that our county staff can hand out that separates
rumor from fact.
I wanted you-all to take a look at it, have Cormac speak to it if
you think something on here could be more clear. But the goal was,
in the end, for us all to have this document somewhere on our
desktop so if you ever had to answer a NIM question, you could
always attach this so that you knew if you had a NIM coming up, this
or something like this would be put in the hands of everybody who
attended, since a lot of citizens seem to be confused. They think the
NIM's, in some cases, the last stop and what they're about to hear has
already been preapproved.
Some of that, too, is, I believe, the applicant, the builder, to the
developer sort of overstepping their bounds at the NIMs, and, you
know, maybe this will be something that we give them as well so that
they -- when they give their presentation, they stress that "I'm about
to, you know, brief all citizens on a proposal that has yet to be
approved and may or may not happen."
But, Cormac, why don't you give us sort of the short version of
what we've got here in front of us and your thoughts and how it
would work.
MR. GIBLIN: Sure. Commissioner, for the record, Cormac
Giblin, your Housing Policy and Economic Development director.
And as you mentioned, it was with cooperation with you and
your office putting together something easily understandable by the
public that would describe the development review process in Collier
County and where that NIM fits in, what the purpose of the NIM is,
who attends, who doesn't attend, and that no final decisions are made
until a project is heard here by the Board of County Commissioners.
At the top of the flier we have the steps of the development
Page 167 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 158
review process starting with the pre-application meeting, an
application, a staff review, then the NIM occurs. County staff then
writes their staff report, it goes to Planning Commission for a
recommendation only, and then the Board of County Commissioners
makes the final decision after that.
There's public input taken throughout that process, including
both in the public hearings and also through email and other
correspondence with staff.
Troy -- oh --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Troy's gone.
MR. GIBLIN: Oh, I can do it here. We go through some
questions, again, as the commissioners stated about the purpose of the
NIM, how we're talking about proposed projects, why they're
required. And the purpose is to give the residents a voice before the
public hearings are scheduled. At the NIM, it's the developer's
responsibility to explain their proposed uses, followed, again, by the
recommendation and final decision by the Board of County
Commissioners.
The NIMs are recorded, and elected officials typically do not
attend the NIMs. And any comments or commitments made by
developers are documented there.
And then we have over here on the right-hand side the key roles
of all the participants in the process. The applicant's responsibility;
the public has a responsibility in the process to keep themselves
knowledgeable and aware of what's going on; county staff's
responsibility; the Planning Commissions'; and the Board of County
Commissioners'.
This website and the QR code at the bottom take you to the
Community Development website of Development Review, how to
look up and research projects through the CityView portal, and a link
to this flyer has been put on the new collier.gov home page in the
Page 168 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 159
informational tiles.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And I think it's good, too, that
all citizens leave a NIM and they've got a phone number, website.
You know, they're not just leaving empty-handed saying, "Oh, my
God. You know, they're breaking ground on, you know, this giant
apartment complex tomorrow. That's what it sounded like at the
NIM," so...
MR. GIBLIN: Yeah. And I worked on this. I'd like to some
give credit to the technical folks back in the office with -- in Growth
Management, Chris Montolio and Jason Regula, and then also our
colleagues over in Public Utilities and Solid Waste. Kari and
Vanessa were gracious enough to loan me Ms. Keagan Giblin in our
Recycling division to help me with some of the graphics on this.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No relation?
MR. GIBLIN: She wasn't quite happy reporting to Dad for a
couple hours to get this done.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Cormac, just one question for
you. Who would have the responsibility to make sure whatever
county staff attended the NIM, they were given 200 copies of these or
whatever, you know, we anticipated? Who would make sure that that
happens?
MR. GIBLIN: Well, the NIM meeting is a responsibility of the
developer. It's the developer who holds the meeting, hosts the
meeting, and presents at the meeting. We would encourage them to
have copies of this there, and if not, staff would also have backup
copies.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. I would really
recommend, at least for the -- I mean, if the commissioners agree that
this is at least a helpful document, that we don't leave it up to the
developer. That if staff is getting in their cars and driving to the
NIM, that they bring a stack, you know, with them and not that we
Page 169 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 160
just put the onus on the developer to make the copies, and then they
go, "Oh, I forgot. Now let's continue with the NIM." Then this thing
isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
I mean, to me, this is a homework assignment that the county
staff who goes with the spiral notebook and a pen to document what
they see brings enough. And, you know, usually we have a good
estimation of, you know, how large the NIM's going to be based on
what room and the size project.
But I don't know who that would be. Mr. French, or maybe it's
Mr. Bosi. But, you know, let's make sure that doesn't fall through the
crack or we -- you know, we put it on the developer and say, "You
know, you have to make copies of this," and just throw it on a table.
Because that's the other thing, too, being proactive that it's handed to
somebody from county staff. It's not just put on a table, and when
200 people leave the NIM, they're all still sitting there. Then we've
just wasted this. But I appreciate all the work you put into it.
Do the Commissioners have any input? Questions? Thoughts?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I like this. And one of
the questions I -- well, I think this is wonderful because our
community is growing. There's a lot of new people here. This is
SOP for us. But there's a lot of new people here that don't know what
the SOP is.
My thought was we, today, expanded the notice process for use
changes, and that comes with a mailer. Why not include this in the
mailer? It wouldn't be -- I mean, I don't think it would be any more
expensive.
MR. GIBLIN: Yeah. The mailers -- the public notice mailers
that go out are produced and emailed by the developers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand that --
MR. GIBLIN: Yeah.
Page 170 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 161
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- but have that be a -- have
this be a portion of the -- of their -- of their notice to the community
that they're proposing a use change. And if there is an expense for an
additional page added to their notice, then minimumly include the
QR code down there that has all this in the direct link website as to
this process.
The information is key to success, and education is key to
success. And if we can -- if we can require a developer to send this
out so that there's a notice of the process to the community, then why
not do it that way?
MR. GIBLIN: We can certainly look at bringing that back with
an update to your admin code to require that this --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. GIBLIN: -- be included in that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the process to get it to
be a requirement?
MR. GIBLIN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I love that. Did you
come up with this all by yourself, or did Cormac help you?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, him.
MR. GIBLIN: I think it was Keagan.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This is, like, Draft 3, but -- the
only thing I would add -- I see what Commissioner McDaniel is
saying, but I'll use the Costco NIM for an example. I had people that
never got a mailer from the developer because they live on Marco but
they still went to the NIM.
So I think we've got to hit this at both sides because a lot of the
confusion that happens on the big projects that eventually come to us,
the confusion starts at the NIM.
So I know this is just one piece of paper. It may seem like no
big deal or what have you. But as Commissioner McDaniel said, this
Page 171 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 162
is standard operating procedure for us, but for a lot of citizens, they
go to a NIM and walk out and go, "Oh, my God. Bulldozers are
coming tomorrow."
So I like the idea of it going in the mailer, but also there's a lot
of people that attend NIMs that a friend tells them, "Oh, my God.
They're building a 600-person apartment building. You know,
please, please fill the room." So I think it's got to be sort of on both
sides.
But, you know, come back to us with your thoughts. I mean, I
think this document serves the purpose, but it only works if it gets in
the hands of everybody who walks in the door, you know, for the
NIM or could be invited to the NIM in the case of people who get the
mailers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good job. I sat during lunch and
explained this very same piece of paper to a guy in District 2.
When it comes to the NIMs how -- how is the developer
required to advertise? Just like Commissioner LoCastro said, a lot of
times people away from it -- is there a place to put it -- you know
how we put these little signs up there on the property, public hearing
notice, blah, blah, blah? I wonder if there's a place on those same
signs where the developer could stick a little sticky label on there
with the date and time and place of the NIM.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. NIMs
are not required to have on-site signage. They're required -- and
we're bringing an item back to you to allow for the advertising of
NIMs at the Clerk's website where all of the legal ads are now
running. So it was -- used to be a newspaper ad. Now it's at that
location, as well as -- as well as mailers to the notification area, but
there are no signs that are required to be posted for NIMs.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, I understand that. I was just -- I
Page 172 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 163
was just -- you know, it's obviously beneficial to the developer to
have good public input so that they don't get blindsided in the end.
And since there is no requirement, if the developer -- you know, you
get those little sticky signs -- you know, those little sticky labels. I
added them to my campaign signs when I forgot to put my permit
number on them. So I had to go buy a little sticky and put it on every
single one of those things.
It could just be, "Hey, the NIM takes place November 7th at
Orange Blossom at 6 p.m." That was just -- I was just trying to think
of how the public could get a better notice, because that's a lot of the
emails that I get is "I wasn't notified." How did I -- you know,
"How'd you sneak this through?" And then there's all that. So we're
not sneaking anything.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Cormac, I was just going to
add, unless the commissioners make any changes to this today or in
the future -- you know, they might get some questions and we have
some improvements. If you could email this to all the
commissioners, and then I would just tell my colleagues here, you
know, maybe you can add this to one of your newsletters or if you
have a big town hall meeting, make some copies of it. I think the
more that we can educate citizens on the approval process and
separate rumor from fact, the better. And this is a good one-page
handout that I think -- like you said, you've already put it on the web
page and some other places. But we touch citizens, you know,
directly in big numbers in our town halls and in our newsletters.
So, you know, I for one -- you know, if this is what -- we want
to go with this as our first draft and then see if there's any confusion,
try to get it out as best we can.
MR. GIBLIN: Certainly.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
Page 173 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 164
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, then maybe as we're
talking about the adjustments to the Administrative Code, we have
a -- we have a discussion with regard to the criterium on the signs for
advertisement. We could put the QR code on those signs that
someone can actually get a link straight to. We can have that
discussion when we're talking about adjusting the Admin Code.
MR. BOSI: And Mr. Giblin pointed out a very good point. The
signs for the public hearings are posted 15 days prior to the Planning
Commission, and obviously they'll be up for the Board hearing.
That's probably, sometimes, six months after a NIM's already been
had.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: True.
MR. BOSI: It's a disconnect, unless -- because if we were to
add the signage for NIMs, I think, one, the 250, more restrictive,
would be an issue in terms of us imposing additional regulations
upon the development community based upon the restrictions that
have been placed from state legislature.
But it's -- like I said, there's a timing mismatch. The NIMs
normally do not -- are -- they're normally three to four months prior
to the Planning Commission meeting, because a NIM's held after the
first review, and most review -- most petitions go through three
rounds of review.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think this is a huge
improvement to what's, in fact, going on from an educational
standpoint, though.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I don't think we need to vote
on it. It's not a voting thing. It was just informational. And if
you-all think it's valuable, help us get it out. If you know you have a
NIM coming up, maybe, you know, talk to Mr. Bosi or Cormac and
say, "Hey, who's going from the County?" Make sure they bring a
copy of -- many copies, or however you want to do it. I mean, it's not
Page 174 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 165
like we're having five NIMs a week or anything, but when we have it,
I think we all agree that, you know, it's an important piece, and
there's some improvement that we need to implement.
MR. BOSI: And I would say -- again, Mike Bosi, Planning and
Zoning director.
With the nodding of the heads from the Board of County
Commissioners, I'll talk to my staff at our staff meeting on Friday.
All future NIMs, this is what we're going to bring, and they're going
to make sure that, you know, they're distributed to everyone who's
there and encourage them to read through it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, absolutely.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right, great.
Anything else?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Make sure our Facebook
reporters get a copy of this, too. Self-proclaimed Facebook.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thanks, Cormac. Appreciate
it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, does that conclude
your --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to 15C, staff and
commission general communications. The only thing I have is a
reminder on the DAS adoption fee waivers that are set to end on
October 1st being extended to, let's say, October 15th so we can get
through the fee policy on the 14th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go ahead and extend it
Page 175 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 166
through the end of October.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. That way if there's another
delay we don't have to worry about it.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So the motion is to continue the fee
waiver through the end of October --
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- for the adoptions. Is there a
second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Motion and second. All in favor,
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
So anything else?
MS. PATTERSON: That's all I have, sir.
County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: I have nothing at this time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I'll just do a couple little housekeeping things, because I was,
like, officially/unofficially made the liaison with the Clam Bay Pass
Committee was one. The other one was -- Naples Airport Authority
was the other. It keeps piling on.
But I just want to kind of -- I'll just touch on the airport authority
Page 176 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 167
one. You guys probably got a copy of Mr. -- Representative Botana
has -- he's submitting a local legislative rule. So you guys pretty
much read that, and it basically comes down to the point where it
would put the NAA, the Naples Airport Authority, as elected officials
countywide, two from county residency and three from the City of
Naples if it passes. So just kind of to give you a heads-up.
What you might not know -- this was something I found out on
Friday the 19th -- there's an organization called Friends of Naples
Airport. They just filed a class action lawsuit against the City of
Naples for overreach, removing powers from the NAA. There was a
multitude of different things in the language that I saw, but I guess
that was presented to them on a Friday.
So there was a lot of things going on, like, just all at one time
piled up on the airport situation, other than them asking us to move it
a couple times.
Clam Bay Committee, I have two civilians that live along the
border of the waterways. They did meet with Mr. Fogg
unofficially/officially. They had a breakfast together, talked about
some things. They were supposed to have an official meeting
October 3rd. The City Manager was supposed to give us a name of
one city representative by -- hopefully it was supposed to be today,
but I haven't heard back yet.
The only good thing -- I don't know if it's a good thing, but
Mr. Fogg had notified everybody that they're canceling the
October 3rd meeting because they're not going to have a quorum, I
guess. So it's been pushed back again.
So that will give us some time to have the city rep, that name
and that person, to be able to attend it with the two civilians.
Other than that, just kind of a quick brief.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just want to make a comment.
Page 177 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 168
Thank you all for entertaining what seems to be me pushing a square
peg in a round hole constantly. Eventually, though, I think that we'll
get to where I want to get to. But at some point in time we've got to
begin, and that's really what my whole motive is. My whole purpose
is. I'm not butt hurt about anything. I just wanted to say thanks for
listening and considering it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have two little cleanup
items. When we were talking about the DAS ordinance, we didn't
put anything in there specifically with regard to direction to staff to
get the information to the DAS board at any specific time in advance
of the meeting, and I -- and I think we ought to talk about that just to
see -- just to give some specific direction.
Maybe Jamie or whoever wants to hear about that. What's a
comfortable time frame for you without turning your applecart
Upside down?
MR. FRENCH: So typically what happens is that when we take
these to advertisements, 10 days with the notice, the agenda packets
are done, and they have been done that way in the past.
Unfortunately, what's happened there, as you know, you have had
some vacancies. And really the question is are we meeting or not --
are we meeting or not. And in many cases, there wasn't a whole lot --
because like the veterinarian not being hired, we were using outside
services, the remodel going on. All of these are very important, but
10 days would probably be the best, because the agenda's set, it's
advertised, and all the members would be notified.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How about a week in advance
of the meeting, then, ensure that all registered members -- whether
we're meeting or --
MR. FRENCH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- not, all registered members
Page 178 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 169
of the DAS advisory committee have the agenda and backup. That's
three days after the advertisement.
MR. FRENCH: That is more than fair. And, sir, I think we're
going to see those expectations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you all okay with that?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely. How are the agendas
put together?
MR. FRENCH: So they were -- they were set up by
Ms. McLean with her management staff, and they are all
multi-faceted. They are doing many things including, at one time,
working in the clinic without a -- with a contract vet versus a
full-time vet. We've actually -- I've taken some of my support staff
from Growth Management, Diane Lunch -- many of you know
Diane -- as well as Donna Guitard in our office. They've taken over a
lot of those roles to help Meredith and her staff because we have
found that sometimes in the dog and cat world, it kind of goes to the
dogs and cats sometimes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think -- I think the message has
been from all of us that we'd like to see this board functioning and
having, you know, a decent agenda and all of that, so...
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. Absolutely. And by the way,
Ms. Lynch as well as Ms. Guitard supports you on your agenda as
well as the Planning Commission, Code Development, and those
other boards that exist. I just had not had an opportunity to pull some
other work away from them to be able to support Meredith.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The last point is during our
budget hearings for us last week, I talked about -- I know that staff
this year on Conservation Collier appropriated 50 percent of the
Page 179 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 170
Conservation Collier tax over into reserves for ongoing maintenance.
And I'd like -- the ordinance currently only calls for a minimum
of 25 percent, and I'd like, by policy, for us to raise that to at least
50 percent.
So I'd for us -- somebody -- are you coming up to address me on
that?
MS. COOK: Yes, sir. Jaime Cook, for the record.
When we revised the program ordinance last year around
March of 2024, the language was written that not only do you set the
millage rate every year, but you set the percentages into the funds
each year. So there's no minimum or maximum in the current
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did we take the old -- because
there used to only be 15 percent by ordinance. You don't have to
show me. Just tell me. Did you take the old --
MS. COOK: It used to be 75/25. We took that out, and you can
set it every year.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So now we set it every year.
Okay. So then it's necessarily covered. I don't have to -- I don't have
to --
MS. COOK: You don't have to change the ordinance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't have to do anything,
then. Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I said at the last budget
meeting that I'm really encouraged by the five men that sit up here,
the five commissioners, that even though we might agree to disagree,
I really feel when it comes to investing the taxpayers' money, we're
paddling in the same direction even if we have disagreements and
discussion.
But, you know, to make a comment to what Commissioner Hall
Page 180 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 171
just said, the comment I would just make is sometimes it's inferred
when you -- when you say, you know, "I'm really looking to make
sure we don't waste taxpayers' money," or "I want to cut taxes," or "I
want to do this," when the vote then doesn't go that way, it's -- you
know, as we say up here, "words matter." It's somewhat inferred that
we didn't care about saving taxpayer dollars.
You know, when you -- when you make a video and you just
say, you know, I tried real hard to save taxpayers’ dollars but I lost
3-2, it sort of is throwing a stone at the three of us that we weren't --
we weren't smart enough to save that money.
So alls -- the comment I would make is I'm really encouraged by
the healthy conversation and the sharp pencils and the calculators that
we're all using, but, you know, I think we all share that we're trying to
make sure we're investing taxpayer dollars and not wasting it.
But if a vote goes -- doesn't go the way of a certain
commissioner, it doesn't mean that we're not smart enough to know
how to spend the money.
So that's all I would say. And I'm saying this with healthy
conversation, not to be disrespectful in any way. But, you know, like
we say, sort of, words matter. So I feel like I've been on the side --
we all have -- of different votes, different ways, and it doesn't mean
that we cared less or, you know, in that particular instance, we -- you
know, one commissioner tried to save the taxpayer dollars but failed
because we weren't smart enough to do it or we didn't care enough to
do it.
So, you know, if that's not what you're saying, I just would say,
you know, words matter. So that's my only rebuttal to that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, Commissioner, no inference
was -- I was merely having fun at breakfast. There was no inference.
I had no problem with the vote.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, one of the things I say is
Page 181 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 172
sometimes it's not how it's said. It's how the citizens hear it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's fine. They can hear it
however they want. I know me. I know my motive. I know my
heart. So I hear you, but nothing was inferred.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I will just say that the good
thing about this board is that we can disagree on things that we have.
We've had several 3-2 votes. We've had a lot of 4-1 votes. None of
us take anything personally, which is a good thing, because we make
better decisions when we have disagreement. It would be a shame if
we had five commissioners that just voted in lockstep on everything.
So I think we -- I think we make better decisions even though
we do have a divided board on a lot of issues. But I understand what
you're saying as well that, you know, it can look to the public that
three commissioners voted to raise taxes. Well, the reality is three
commissioners did. So, I mean, that's -- we kept the millage rate
steady, but we did it because we felt that that was in the best interest
of the County going forward.
But the dialogue leading up to it was very helpful because we're
all looking for ways to sharpen our pencils and be more efficient with
the way we spend money.
So I have nothing else to add. With that, we are adjourned.
********
***Commissioner Hall moved, seconded by Commissioner Kowal
and carried that the following items under the consent and summary
agendas be approved and/or adopted***
Item #16A1
ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, AN
Page 182 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 173
ORDINANCE AMENDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE,
TO CHANGE THE MAILED NOTIFICATION DISTANCE FOR
APPLICATIONS INVOLVING A SITE-SPECIFIC GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN (GMP) AMENDMENT, REZONE, OR
CONDITIONAL USE REQUEST ON RURAL AGRICULTURAL
(A) ZONED LANDS. [PL20250005475]
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 2025- 180: A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE FOR LAND
DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WAS CREATED BY ORDINANCE NO.
2013-57, BY AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES
TO ALLOW THE LEGAL NOTICING OF NEIGHBORHOOD
INFORMATION MEETINGS BY PUBLICATION ON THE
COUNTY CLERK’S WEBSITE OR A PRINTED NEWSPAPER.
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF THE SEWER FACILITIES
FOR SANDY LANE ASSEMBLAGE – OFFSITE UTILITY
FORCEMAIN, PL20250004941
Item #16A4
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR
VALENCIA SKY – PHASE 1, PL20250003451 - A FINAL
Page 183 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 174
INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED ON JUNE 19, 2025, AND
THESE FACILITIES WERE FOUND TO BE SATISFACTORY AND
ACCEPTABLE
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES AND
APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR CAYMAS
AMENITY CENTER – PHASE 1A, PL20250000657 – A FINAL
INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED ON JUNE 17, 2025, AND
THESE FACILITIES WERE FOUND TO BE SATISFACTORY AND
ACCEPTABLE
Item #16A6
RESOLUTION 2025-181: RESOLUTION 2025-182: A
RESOLUTION FOR FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE
ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS AND COUNTY
DRAINAGE EASEMENTS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF
WINCHESTER (PPL), APPLICATION NUMBER PL20210002267,
AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,691,443.50, AND TO
APPROVE A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS AND COUNTY
DRAINAGE EASEMENTS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF
WINCHESTER PHASE 2 (FP), APPLICATION NUMBER
Page 184 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 175
PL20230009406, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $182,292.55
Item #16A7
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APPROVE A
REQUEST FOR A TEMPORARY USE, NOT ELSEWHERE
CLASSIFIED PER THE TEMPORARY EVENTS SECTION
5.04.05.E OF THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE (LDC) FOR VALET PARKING ON PARCEL NUMBERS
7158025008 AND 71580260001, WITHIN THE BAYSHORE CRA
Item #16A8
RESOLUTION 2025-183: THE REMOVAL OF UNCOLLECTIBLE
ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLES IN THE AMOUNT OF $77,910
FROM THE FINANCIAL RECORDS OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES DIVISION IN ACCORDANCE
WITH RESOLUTION NO. 2006-252, DETERMINE THAT THE
ADJUSTMENT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COUNTY,
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE THE ATTACHED
RESOLUTION
Item #16A9 – (Continue to the October 14, 2025, Per Agenda Change
Sheet)
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE A RESOLUTION
SUPERSEDING RESOLUTION NO. 2018-106, AMENDING THE
COLLIER COUNTY DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES (DAS) FEE
POLICY, AS IT RELATES TO THE AUTHORITY OF THE
DIRECTOR OF DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES AND
Page 185 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 176
REFLECTING THE OPERATING COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH
ANIMAL-RELATED BUSINESSES AND BREEDERS, WITH AN
EFFECTIVE DATE OF OCTOBER 1, 2025.
Item #16A10
A ONE-YEAR EXTENSION TO OBTAIN FINANCING
COMMITMENTS FOR PHASE II (RENAISSANCE HALL SENIOR
LIVING) OF THE RENTAL DEVELOPMENT AS REQUIRED
UNDER THE DEVELOPER AGREEMENT AND LONG-TERM
GROUND LEASE WITH RURAL NEIGHBORHOODS,
INCORPORATED CONCERNING THE GOLDEN GATE GOLF
COURSE HOUSING PROJECT
Item #16A11
A MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA
FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMMISSION TO
ALLOW TWO YOUTH HUNTS AT PEPPER RANCH PRESERVE
IN 2026
Item #16B1
A REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENT FROM THE CITY OF
NAPLES FOR FY 23/24 IN THE AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED
$515,000 USING TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS FOR
BEACH MAINTENANCE AND LOWDERMILK PARK PARKING
LOT MAINTENANCE, WAIVE ANY IRREGULARITIES IN THE
PROCESS, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS EXPENDITURE
PROMOTES TOURISM
Page 186 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 177
Item #16B2
PAYMENT FOR THE BALANCE OF PURCHASE ORDER NO.
4500236559 IN THE AMOUNT OF $64,672.35 TO EARTH TECH
ENTERPRISES, INC., UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 24-8292,
“COLLIER COUNTY – 2024 PARK SHORE RENOURISHMENT”
Item #16B3
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL GRANT APPLICATION
REQUESTS FROM COLLIER COUNTY AND THE CITY OF
NAPLES FOR FY 2025-2026 IN THE AMOUNT OF $18,569,300,
BUDGET THESE EXPENDITURES, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR
TO EXECUTE THE GRANT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY OF
NAPLES, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THESE
EXPENDITURES PROMOTE TOURISM
Item #16B4
THE FY 2025-2026, 10-YEAR CAPITAL PLANNING DOCUMENT
FOR TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS IN TDC BEACH
RENOURISHMENT FUND (1105) AND TDC ENGINEERING
FUND (1102) AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THESE
EXPENDITURES PROMOTE TOURISM
Item #16B5
THE SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
STAFF TO ENTER INTO CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH
KINARD–STONE, INC., RELATED TO REQUEST FOR
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 25-8376 FOR “CEI &
Page 187 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 178
RELATED SERVICES FOR COLLIER BOULEVARD WIDENING
PHASE III FROM GREEN BOULEVARD TO CITY GATE N.
BOULEVARD,” AND BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK
FOR THE BOARD’S CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE
MEETING. (PROJECT 68056)
Item #16B6
AN ACCESS LICENSE AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER
COUNTY AND THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT
DISTRICT (SFWMD), GRANTING NON-EXCLUSIVE ACCESS
RIGHTS THROUGH COUNTY-OWNED PROPERTY LOCATED
AT THE CARNESTOWN SOLID WASTE PROPERTY TO
SUPPORT THE HEARTLAND HEADWATERS CONSERVATION
AND EVERGLADES RESTORATION PROJECT
Item #16B7
A JOINDER AND CONSENT TO UTILITY EASEMENT
AUTHORIZING RURAL NEIGHBORHOODS, INC., TO CONVEY
AN UNDERGROUND UTILITY EASEMENT TO FLORIDA
POWER & LIGHT CO., TO PROVIDE ELECTRICAL SERVICES
FOR CONSTRUCTION OF RENAISSANCE HALL AT OLD
COURSE, LLC, LOCATED AT 4150 GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY;
AND TO AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR
DESIGNEE(S) TO EXECUTE FUTURE NECESSARY UTILITY
EASEMENTS FOR BOTH PHASES OF THIS AFFORDABLE
HOUSING CONSTRUCTION PROJECT. (2025-3480)
Item #16C1
Page 188 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 179
RESOLUTION 2025-184: THE FY2026 FEE SCHEDULES
ESTABLISHED IN THE ANNUAL RATE RESOLUTION FOR
RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL COLLECTION AND
DISPOSAL OF SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLING AT COLLIER
COUNTY SOLID WASTE FACILITIES, INCLUDING THE
LANDFILL, TRANSFER STATION, AND RECYCLING DROP-
OFF CENTERS AS PRESENTED IN THE FY2026 SOLID WASTE
BUDGET
Item #16C2
THE FISCAL YEAR 2025-2026 CORE CONTRACT WITH THE
STATE OF FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH FOR THE
OPERATION OF THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IN
COLLIER COUNTY IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,120,900
Item #16D1
FIRST AMENDMENT TO SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT
BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND COLLIER HEALTH
SERVICES, INC., D/B/A/ HEALTHCARE NETWORK, TO
AMEND THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
AGREEMENT #CD-CV21-09 TO REVISE PROJECT DETAILS,
PAYMENT DELIVERABLES, SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION,
AND UPDATE THE GRANT LANGUAGE AND EXHIBITS.
(HOUSING GRANTS FUND 1835)
Item #16D2
THE (1) SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT MITIGATION AGREEMENT
Page 189 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 180
BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND FLORIDA DEPARTMENT
OF COMMERCE (I0162) AND (2) SECOND AMENDMENT TO
THE SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER
COUNTY AND COLLIER HEALTH SERVICES, INC., DBA
HEALTHCARE NETWORK (MIT22-001) FOR THE HARDENING
OF THE MARION E. FETHER MEDICAL CENTER IN
IMMOKALEE. (HOUSING GRANT FUNDS 1835)
Item #16D3
EIGHT (8) LANDLORD PAYMENT AGREEMENTS BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY AND EIGHT (8) TENANT BASED RENTAL
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM ELIGIBLE LANDLORDS, ALLOWING
THE COMMUNITY AND HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION TO
PROVIDE GRANT-FUNDED RENTAL ASSISTANCE TO
INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES IN THE TENANT BASED
RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM THROUGH THE HOME
INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIPS PROGRAM AND THE HOME-
AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN GRANT PROGRAMS. (HOUSING
GRANT FUND 1835 AND HOME GRANT FUND 1848)
Item #16D4
FOUR LANDLORD PAYMENT AGREEMENTS BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY AND FOUR ESG/ESG-RUSH ELIGIBLE
LANDLORDS, ALLOWING THE COMMUNITY AND HUMAN
SERVICES DIVISION (CHS) TO PROVIDE GRANT-FUNDED
RENTAL ASSISTANCE TO INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES IN
THE RAPID RE-HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS
PREVENTION PROGRAM THROUGH THE EMERGENCY
SOLUTIONS (ESG) AND RAPID UNSHELTERED SURVIVOR
Page 190 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 181
HOUSING (RUSH) GRANTS. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835)
Item #16D5
AFTER-THE-FACT GRANT APPLICATION SUBMISSION TO
THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR
FEDERAL FISCAL YEAR 2024 EDWARD BYRNE MEMORIAL,
JUSTICE ASSISTANCE GRANT (JAG) COUNTYWIDE
PROGRAM ON BEHALF OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
SHERIFF’S OFFICE, (2) APPROVE THE REVISION TO THE
REQUIRED 51% LETTER NAMING COLLIER COUNTY BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AS THE RECIPIENT, AND (3)
FOR THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED LETTER
DESIGNATING THE COUNTY MANAGER AS THE CHIEF
OFFICIAL FOR THE GRANT
Item #16D6
1) APPROVE THE SUBMITTAL OF THE FY25-26 STATE AID TO
LIBRARY GRANT APPLICATION ALONG WITH THE 2023-2027
LIBRARY STRATEGIC PLAN AND OTHER REQUIRED
DOCUMENTATION AND 2) AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN
GRANT AGREEMENT #26-ST-08 INCLUDING CERTIFICATIONS
REQUIRED FOR THE SUBMISSION OF THE GRANT
APPLICATION TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF STATE,
DIVISION OF LIBRARY AND INFORMATION SERVICES FOR
FUNDING IN THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF $120,354.00.
(PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839)
Item #16D7
Page 191 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 182
THE COUNTY MANAGER TO SIGN (A) THE DIRECTED
PROVIDER PAYMENT LETTER OF AGREEMENT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $23,084,530.00, (B) THE GRADUATE MEDICAL
EDUCATION PROGRAM LETTER OF AGREEMENT FOR AN
ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF $2,373,918.09 WITH THE AGENCY
FOR HEALTH CARE ADMINISTRATION FOR AN ESTIMATED
TOTAL NOT TO EXCEED $25,458,448.09, (C) THE REQUIRED
PROVIDER QUESTIONNAIRES, AND (D) AUTHORIZE THE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS. LOCAL PROVIDER
FUND (1130)
Item #16D8 – (Moved to Item #11F, Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16D9
RESOLUTION 2025-185: A RESOLUTION AND AUTHORIZE
REMOVAL OF AN UNCOLLECTIBLE ACCOUNTS
RECEIVABLE BALANCE IN THE AMOUNT OF $28,972.54
RELATED TO A FY 2007-2008 EMERGENCY SHELTER GRANT
PROJECT ADMINISTERED BY IMMOKALEE FRIENDSHIP
HOUSE, WHICH WAS LATER TAKEN OVER BY ST.
MATTHEW’S HOUSE
Item #16E1
THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR VARIOUS COUNTY
DIVISIONS’ AFTER-THE-FACT PURCHASES REQUIRING
BOARD APPROVAL IN ACCORDANCE WITH PROCUREMENT
ORDINANCE NO. 2025-34, AND THE PROCUREMENT
MANUAL IN THE AMOUNT OF $43,099.63
Page 192 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 183
Item #16E2
A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO FUND 5017 (GROUP HEALTH
AND LIFE INSURANCE), TO PAY HEALTH AND PHARMACY
CLAIMS EXPENDITURES FOR THE REMAINDER OF FY 2025
Item #16E3
RESOLUTION 2025-186: A RESOLUTION ADOPTING THE PAY
AND CLASSIFICATION PLANS FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AND COUNTY MANAGER’S AGENCY,
NON-UNION EMS, AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE
EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 1, 2025; TO PROVIDE A GENERAL
WAGE ADJUSTMENT TO ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES EFFECTIVE
OCTOBER 4, 2025; AND TO APPROVE THE CREATION OF NEW
CLASSIFICATIONS, MODIFICATION AND/OR DELETION OF
CLASSIFICATIONS AND ASSIGNMENT OF PAY RANGES
FROM THE PROPOSED PAY AND CLASSIFICATION PLANS,
FROM JULY 1, 2025 FORWARD USING THE EXISTING POINT-
FACTOR JOB EVALUATION SYSTEM AND MARKET DATA;
AND TO AUTHORIZE ANY NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN FY2026
Item #16F1
THIRD AMENDMENT TO THE LEASE AGREEMENT WITH
ALPERT TOWER, LLC FOR THE INSTALLATION OF AN
ADDITIONAL MICROWAVE DISH ADDED TO THE
COMMUNICATIONS TOWER AT 1515 BENTON ROAD,
NAPLES, FL 34117, RESULTING IN A MONTHLY RENT
INCREASE OF $382.50
Page 193 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 184
Item #16F2
THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH
SUPER TOWERS INC., A FLORIDA CORPORATION,
AUTHORIZING THE INSTALLATION OF AN ADDITIONAL
MICROWAVE DISH ON THE COMMUNICATION TOWER AT
9930 CHANNEL 30 DRIVE, BONITA SPRINGS, FL 34135, TO
SUPPORT THE PUBLIC SAFETY DIVISION’S EMERGENCY
COMMUNICATION RADIO SYSTEM
Item #16F3
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (RFP) # 24-8318 FOR
TOURISM PUBLIC RELATIONS SERVICES TO LOU
HAMMOND GROUP FLORIDA, INC., AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR
TO EXECUTE THE CONTRACT, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT
THIS EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM
Item #16F4
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX GRANT AGREEMENTS FOR
FY 2025-2026 (FY 25-26) MARKETING GRANTS (CATEGORY B)
($84,000) AND NON-COUNTY OWNED/OPERATED MUSEUMS
(CATEGORY C-2) ($674,000), FOR A TOTAL OF $758,000, AND
MAKE A FINDING THAT THESE EXPENDITURES PROMOTE
TOURISM
Item #16F5
A SPONSORSHIP AGREEMENT WITH 3 STEP SPORTS LLC (“3
STEP SPORTS”) FOR $2,325,000.00 TO HOST AND PROMOTE
Page 194 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 185
YOUTH AND AMATEUR SPORTING EVENTS, INCLUDING
FOOTBALL UNIVERSITY NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS AND
TOP GUN SHOWCASE, FROM 2025 THROUGH 2030, AND
MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ACTION PROMOTES TOURISM
Item #16F6
THE USE OF TOURISM DEVELOPMENT TAX (TDT)
PROMOTION FUNDS TO SUPPORT THE UPCOMING 2025
LEGENDS SOUTHEAST INVITATIONAL LACROSSE
TOURNAMENT UP TO $3,000 AND MAKE A FINDING THAT
THESE EXPENDITURES PROMOTE TOURISM
Item #16F7
RESOLUTION 2025- 187: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN
REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES.)
Item #16F8
AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $38,523.84
TO MOHAWK CARPET DISTRIBUTION, LLC, FOR THE
BUILDING H BASE INSTALLATION PROJECT PROCURED
UNDER THE STATE OF FLORIDA CONTRACT #30161700-24-
SRCWL-ACS, AND DEEM THIS EXPENDITURE HAS A VALID
PUBLIC PURPOSE
Page 195 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 186
Item #16F9
THE GOLISANO CHILDREN’S MUSEUM OF NAPLES’
REQUEST TO PROCEED WITH A SERIES OF FACILITY
RENOVATIONS IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE NAPLES
EARLY LEARNING CENTER AND EXPAND THE MUSEUM’S
CAPACITY TO BETTER SERVE FAMILIES AND YOUNG
CHILDREN IN COLLIER COUNTY – THESE RENOVATIONS
WILL ENABLE THE MUSEUM TO EXPAND ITS
PROGRAMMING AND OFFER EARLY LEARNING
OPPORTUNITIES TO STUDENTS
Item #16F10
A JOINDER, CONSENT AND AGREEMENT OF LESSOR, TO
THE SUBLEASE BETWEEN THE GATE GOLF CLUB, INC.
(“THE GATE”), AND GULF COAST JUNIOR GOLF TOUR, INC.,
D/B/A THE FIRST TEE OF NAPLES/COLLIER (“FIRST TEE”),
APPROVING THE SUBLEASE OF A PORTION OF THE GOLDEN
GATE GOLF COURSE PROPERTY TO FIRST TEE PURSUANT
TO THE REQUIREMENTS SET FORTH IN THE LONG-TERM
LEASE AND OPERATING AGREEMENT DATED APRIL 23, 2024,
BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE GATE
Item #16F11
RESOLUTION 2025-188: A RESOLUTION (1) FORMALLY
DESIGNATING THE DIRECTOR OF CORPORATE FINANCIAL
AND MANAGEMENT SERVICES AS THE DESIGNATED
BUDGET OFFICER (2) AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS’ BUDGET
Page 196 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 187
AMENDMENT POLICY AND PROCEDURE BY ALIGNING
BUDGET AMENDMENT AUTHORITY AND PROCEDURE WITH
FLORIDA STATUTES, SECTION 129.06 – EXECUTION AND
AMENDMENT OF BUDGET
Item #16F12
RESOLUTION 2025-189: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
INTERGOVERNMENTAL TRANSFERS (IGT) BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY EMS AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA
AGENCY FOR HEALTH CARE ADMINISTRATION (AHCA) FOR
FISCAL YEAR 2026, TO AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN AN
AGREEMENT WITH AHCA TO ACCEPT DIRECT PAYMENTS
FROM THE PROGRAM, “STATEWIDE MEDICAID MANAGED
CARE” (SMMC) FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026, TO APPROVE AN
AMENDMENT TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2025 LETTER OF
AGREEMENT EXTENDING THE EXPIRATION DATE OF THE
AGREEMENT FROM SEPTEMBER 30, 2025, TO SEPTEMBER
30, 2026, TO AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER TO SIGN
THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL TRANSFERS QUESTIONNAIRE,
AND TO APPROVE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16G1
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, ACTING AS THE
COLLIER COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY, APPROVE A
CONSENT TO SUBLEASE AGREEMENT AUTHORIZING ITS
LESSEE, GLOBAL FLIGHT TRAINING SOLUTIONS, INC.,
UNDER AN EXISTING LEASEHOLD AGREEMENT FOR
HANGAR CONSTRUCTION, TO SUBLET TWO AIRCRAFT
STORAGE HANGARS AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL
Page 197 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 188
AIRPORT TO ITS SUBTENANT, SMOLACH, LLC, A FLORIDA
LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIR TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CONSENT AGREEMENT
Item #16I
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - SEPTEMBER 23, 2025
Page 198 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 189
Item #16J1
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $33,638,197.72 WERE DRAWN FOR THE PERIODS
BETWEEN AUGUST 28, 2025, AND SEPTEMBER 10, 2025,
PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16J2
REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF SEPTEMBER 17,
2025
Item #16J3
APPROVED TAX COLLECTOR REQUEST FOR ADVANCE
COMMISSIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA STATUTE
192.102(1) FOR FY2026
Item #16K1
THE ANNUAL PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL FOR THE
COUNTY ATTORNEY FY 24-25
Item #16K2
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS REVIEWS AND
Page 199 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 190
APPROVES THE PROPOSED FY 2025 - 2026 ACTION PLAN
FOR JEFFREY A. KLATZKOW, COUNTY ATTORNEY
Item #16K3
RESOLUTION 2025-190: REAPPOINTING LISA MCGARITY TO
THE LELY GOLF ESTATES BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY
COMMITTEE
Item #16K4
THIRD AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT FOR LEGAL SERVICES
RELATING TO THE COUNTY’S RETENTION AGREEMENT
WITH BRYANT MILLER & OLIVE, P.A., EXTENDING THE
EXPIRATION DATE TO DECEMBER 13, 2028. – WITH TWO
ADDITIONAL ONE-YEAR RENEWAL TERMS
Item #16K5
A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$90,000 PLUS $5,709 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY FEES AND
COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1378FEE REQUIRED
FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT
NO. 60249
Item #16K6
A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$90,000 PLUS $26,142 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND
EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL
1340FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD
Page 200 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 191
EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249
Item #17A
ORDINANCE 2025-37: THIS ITEM WAS CONTINUED FROM
THE JUNE 24, 2025, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MEETING, TO THE SEPTEMBER 9, 2025, MEETING AND
FURTHER CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 23, 2025,
MEETING. RECOMMENDATION TO ADOPT AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE TO IMPLEMENT HOUSING INITIATIVES IN THE
GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN RELATING TO HOUSING
THAT IS AFFORDABLE. [PL20210001291] (SECOND OF TWO
HEARINGS)
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2025-38: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE
COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO ALLOW
LEGAL NOTICE OF NEIGHBORHOOD INFORMATION
MEETINGS BY PUBLICATION ON THE COUNTY CLERK’S
WEBSITE OR A PRINTED NEWSPAPER. [PL20250000524]
Item #17C
ORDINANCE 2025-39: AN ORDINANCE REZONING 8.27±
ACRES FROM A GENERAL COMMERCIAL (C-4) ZONING
DISTRICT AND GENERAL COMMERCIAL (C-4) ZONING
DISTRICT WITHIN THE GATEWAY TRIANGLE ZONING
OVERLAY-MIXED USE DISTRICT (GTZO-MXD) TO THE
MIXED USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (MPUD)
Page 201 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 192
ZONING DISTRICT PARTIALLY WITHIN THE GATEWAY
TRIANGLE ZONING OVERLAY-MIXED USE DISTRICT (GTZO-
MXD) FOR A PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS THE DAVIS
BROOKSIDE MPUD TO ALLOW 66 MULTI-FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS AND A 120-BOAT SLIP
MARINA; AND PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF ORDINANCE NO.
23-42. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE NORTH
SIDE OF DAVIS BOULEVARD, APPROXIMATELY 2/10 OF ONE
MILE EAST OF TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST. [PL20240010963]
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2025-39A: THE PROPOSED AND ADVERTISED
AMENDMENT TO ORDINANCE 91-107, AS AMENDED, THE
“FOREST LAKES ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE MUNICIPAL
TAXING UNIT (MSTU),” TO EXPAND STORMWATER
DRAINAGE MAINTENANCE AND IMPROVEMENTS TO
INCLUDE THE QUAIL RUN GOLF CLUB PROPERTY, WITHIN
THE MSTU BOUNDARY TO SUPPORT AND ENHANCE THE
COMMUNITY-WIDE STORMWATER DRAINAGE SYSTEM
Item #17E
RESOLUTION 2025-191: A RESOLUTION SUPERSEDING
RESOLUTION NO. 2023-206 AND ALL PRIOR RATE
RESOLUTIONS AND SCHEDULES FOR THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IN COLLIER COUNTY (DOH-
COLLIER) ALLOWING THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT TO
ESTABLISH THE PROPOSED FEE SCHEDULE
Item #17F
Page 202 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 193
RESOLUTION 2025-192: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN
REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES.)
Item #17G
RESOLUTION 2025-193: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2025-2026 ADOPTED BUDGET
Item #17H – (Moved to Item #9C, Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #17I – (Moved to Item #9D, Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #17J
ORDINANCE 2025-40: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING COLLIER
COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 84-37, AS AMENDED, KNOWN AS
THE LOCAL STATE OF EMERGENCY ORDINANCE
Item #17K – (Moved to Item #9E, Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Page 203 of 3380
September 23, 2025
Page 194
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 2:57 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected --
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 204 of 3380