Agenda 08/26/2025 Item # 2B (June 03, 2025 Workshop Minutes)June 3, 2025
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, June 3, 2025
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
WORKSHOP SESSION in Building "F" of the Government
Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members
present:
Chairman: Burt L. Saunders
Dan Kowal
Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
June 3, 2025
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MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Welcome to our workshop. We're going to start off with the
Pledge of Allegiance.
Colonel LoCastro, could you lead us in the Pledge?
Item #1
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - PLEDGE LED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, yes, sir. Thank you.
Please join me. Veterans, hand salute.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The first part of our workshop this
morning is dealing with the Mental Health Strategic Plan.
Ms. Patterson, could you go ahead and get us launched on that?
Item #2A
MENTAL HEALTH STRATEGIC PLAN - PRESENTED BY TONYA L.
DEDERING, CFRE, TL DEDERING AND ASSOCIATES, LLC WITH
OTHER PRESENTERS FOR PRIORITIES 1 - 5; DISCUSSED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We do have a representative for
the strategic plan that's going to be appearing on Zoom, so we have
her ready to go.
But we will start with Item 2A, Mental Health Strategic Plan,
and we have our -- several members of the public here to speak on
parts of this, so we will get this started with David Lawrence Center.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Thank you. Commissioners, Nancy
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Dauphinais, chair of the Coalition for Healthy Minds. And I'd like to
introduce our strategic planning facilitator, Tonya Dedering, who's
joining us from Wisconsin.
MS. DEDERING: Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me
okay in your room?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, we can.
MS. DEDERING: Okay. Excellent.
Thank you for inviting me to be part of the meeting today. My
name is Tonya Dedering. And I'm not seeing the PowerPoint slide
deck. Is that something that's going to be pulled up? There we go.
Thank you.
(Announcement playing in the background.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good job, Troy.
MS. DEDERING: It appears there's an announcement where I
am. It will be just one moment.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: She's with us from the Mayo Clinic.
MS. DEDERING: Yeah. I'm in a -- I'm in a medical location.
There was just an announcement that I was not aware of. So I'll go
ahead and get started.
Again, welcome to the Collier Coalition for Healthy Minds
Strategic Plan Workshop today. My name is Tonya Dedering. And a
little background about myself. I was brought on to be the facilitator
just about a year ago. After 40 years of the non-profit sector
leadership experience as well as for-profit sector experience in
Wisconsin, I opened my own business called TL Dedering &
Associates, and I advise and coach non-profits.
I was introduced to the Coalition after a conversation with
Eileen Connolly-Keesler from the Collier Community Foundation.
And I met Eileen when she worked in Wisconsin as a CEO of the
Oshkosh Area Community Foundation prior to moving to Naples. I
inquired about potential consulting needs in the area, as my family
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was looking to purchase a home in Southwest Florida, which we've
done. And I look forward to this meeting today and the opportunity
to have served as a facilitator.
Having the outside facilitator really does allow a neutral eye for
such a project like this. Strategic planning tools and best practices
were used throughout this session in the journey, making it a neutral
and a fair process. I'd like to thank the commissioners for your past
support of the first plan that was a really strong springboard for the
plan that is presented to you as proposed today.
Due to a family priority, I will be on the call for these first 10 or
15 minutes, then I'll need to drop off just as Michael Overway will
step up and talk about Strategy No. 2.
As you see -- as you see on the screen, the Strategic Doing
framework was used, and the Strategic Doing framework is strong
because it has two key areas of focus. It focuses on accelerating
innovation and change and collaborations that cross boundaries both
inside and outside of the organizations.
So this was really ideal for this type of a project with this
important community initiative with multiple agencies and
organizations involved crossing many boundaries in Collier County.
It was a thoughtful process with input from dedicated existing
members as well as new members and experts in their field, which is
really positioned quite nicely to form this new plan.
It was created with a commitment to data- and evidence-based
approaches, and this data-driven approach will continue to provide
the insights for decision-making even ongoing.
At the completion of the first three workshops of the Coalition,
members identified three areas of focus that needed to be addressed
to ensure the success of the new strategic plan. And they are -- the
first was recruiting new members, and this was really key to recruit
members and leaders with specific skills and expertise to execute the
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proposed strategies and to bring information to the table to form the
strategies. To date, 17 new members were recruited to join the newly
formed coalition.
Number 2 was the coalition organizational structure. It was
essential to form the framework for the Coalition to level up and to
serve the community. To date the bylaws have been prepared and
approved, memo of agreement has been established for all the
members, and a new-member application and process has been
outlined and is in place.
I'd like to thank the officers who have stepped up to take -- and
were appointed by the Coalition to take leadership roles. First is
Nancy Dauphinais as chair, Beth Hatch as the Vice Chair, Lieutenant
Weidenhammer as the secretary, Lindsay Touchette as the treasurer,
and Scott Burgess as the past chairperson.
The third area of focus is financial sustainability. The members
agree this was essential to address the financial state of the Coalition
as well as important to do that so we could sufficiently execute the
identified strategies and sustain the work of the Coalition.
During this journey, there were a total of 11 planning meetings
for all coalition members that took place between August of '24 to
April of '25. There were 20-plus work group meetings that took
place to form and cocreate the strategies and to gain approval from
each strategy leader.
We researched and reviewed about 50-plus documents that will
remain on file for reference to coalition members. And again, 17 new
members were recruited and joined the Coalition.
The result is the proposed strategic plan that we invite you to
review to provide your insights and to help us move the plan forward
to its final form.
In conclusion, I was quite impressed with the group -- the entire
membership, the new and the former members, a great deal of
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dedication to create the plan and willingness to work together to
make it happen. Members who were welcome, like-minded and
dedicated professionals as the new members to the group and, of
course, from organizations of all sizes, to ensure that we had
membership voice equity. And all members were focused on
ensuring services were identified and proposed to meet the needs of
the Collier citizens.
Words that come to mind as I reflect on the project are
committed, focused, motivated, realistic, willing,
community-minded, date-driven, problem-solving, challenging,
thoughtful, and last but not least, professional. It was really great to
see the right people come together at the right time to create this
proposed plan.
Now let's formally acknowledge a few of the members of the
Coalition that worked diligently to create this strategic plan. Eileen
Connolly-Keesler and Lindsay Touchette from the Community
Foundation for funding the facilitation of this plan and for their
investment in serving the community.
Next would be Judge Martin. She's leading Strategy No. 4,
which is the justice system response, and she worked extremely hard
this past year to have two training sessions for the justice system
personnel and was extremely dedicated to the Coalition stepping up
many times to support us.
Lieutenant Weidenhammer, newly appointed secretary of the
Coalition, for her leadership in securing funding in the first plan for
the transportation plan which now is moving under No. 1, which is
the central receiving facility.
Beth Hatch, for your leadership, Beth, and your support in
forming this plan and to step in as the vice chair of Coalition.
Dale Mullin, the founder of Warrior Homes Collier -- and most
of you know the good work that he has done this past couple of years,
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and he is now leading a new strategy, which is enhanced housing and
service for veterans. In the last plan, the veterans was special
considerations, and it got moved up to a separate strategy this year.
Nancy Dauphinais, for your exceptional leadership in the
Coalition and for leading a new strategy, No. 3, workforce
development, which you will hear about shortly.
Michael Overway, for his support in leadership in housing
strategy, which will continue in this new plan.
Megan Edwards, a new member from the Baker Senior Center,
and she is leading the newly formed special considerations for older
adults which will support all of the strategies you will hear about
today.
Scott Burgess for his leadership as the past chair of the Coalition
and for leading strategy No. 1, central receiving facility, and the
transportation plan.
And, Commissioner LoCastro. Thank you for your dedication,
Commissioner, to the work of the Coalition over the years, attending
the meetings providing necessary insights, and for your support in
this journey, we acknowledge your leadership and support.
And for all those listed on the screen that you see there, it's truly
been a strong collaboration with numerous people coming to the table
in order to support (Zoom audio cut out) Collier citizens. The
participation is acknowledged and highly valued.
As part of the strategy structure, the mission, vision, and values
was reviewed. So as you can see on the screen here, the mission
remained exactly the same as the collaborative plan that will support
the coordinated effort using the vast array of the evidence informed
services, and it's really about improving the lives of adults with
mental health and substance use disorder and that overall quality of
life in Collier County.
The vision was created, and you see that listed there, which is
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really to focus on comprehensive evidence informed mental health
leading to improve lives overall.
And going on to the -- to the next -- now I'd like to just do a real
brief review of the five strategies that you will learn more about
today.
Number 1 is build and operate the central receiving facility and
revise and implement the Collier Transportation Plan. We won't talk
about that right now. That will come later in the presentation.
The second is going to be No. 2, which continues from the prior
plan, and that is maintain and increase housing supports for
individuals with serious mental illness and substance use disorder.
Number 3, this one is new, as mentioned prior. This is
strengthen the behavioral health workforce. You'll hear about that
today also.
Number 4 continues in the plan. That's increase the capacity
and effectiveness of the justice system response to mental illness and
substance use.
And No. 5 is also new, and that is -- it was a special
consideration in the former plan, and it's now on its own as enhanced
access to housing and services for veterans.
Special considerations for older adults remains, and that would
be over all of the five proposed strategies, and new would be the
support strategies you see listed there. It was agreed that prevention,
education, and advocacy as well as data collaborative would be
considered support strategies for all of the proposed five strategies
you see listed here today.
The next slide is simply a graphic image of what we just
discussed.
And then as we go into the last slide, now that we have reviewed
how the plan was created, acknowledged leaders and organizations
that have worked so hard to get to where you are today, and learned
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about what the strategies are, it's time to hear from the strategy
leaders.
Again, No. 1, we'll pass on that for the time being.
Number 2. Now before I introduce Michael, I would like to
express my gratitude to the Collier Community Foundation, to the
leadership team of the Coalition, and to all members of the Coalition
for the opportunity to serve as your facilitator. It's really been an
honor to partner with you. And while my time has concluded, I'll
stay in touch, and I will absolutely remain invested in seeing how the
plan progresses. I've been very impressed with the work of everyone
that has participated in this, especially as the outside eye and the
neutral eye. It's been -- it's been enlightening and rewarding to see
how hard everyone is coming together to serve the county.
And, Commissioners, I remain a resource for you and welcome
a phone call, a video call, or an email should you want to discuss any
portion of the plan further with myself or the plan creation process
itself.
So, again, thank you all for the opportunity to serve the
Coalition.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. DEDERING: I'll be dropping off the call shortly. You're
welcome.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Dedering.
MS. DEDERING: You're welcome.
Next, I would like to introduce Michael Overway. He's the
executive director of the Southwest Florida Regional Coalition to
End Hopelessness and the leader of Strategy No. 2, which is to
maintain and increase housing and supportive services for individuals
with serious mental illness and substance use disorder.
So, Michael.
MR. OVERWAY: Thank you, Tonya.
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Good morning, Commissioners, and thank you for the
opportunity to speak today at this workshop.
My name is Michael Overway. As Tonya had indicated, I am
the CEO for the Southwest Florida Regional Coalition to End
Homelessness. And I am here to speak on a matter that not only
affects individuals and families but the overall health, safety, and
well-being of our community, the urgent need for affordable and
supportive housing for residents living with mental health and
substance use disorders.
In Collier County, like many communities across the Florida, we
are seeing a growing number of individuals struggling to find and
keep safe, stable housing, especially those navigating the challenges
of behavioral health. In fact, at our most recent homeless
point-in-time count this past January, 61 individuals were surveyed.
They self-identified as having a mental health or substance use
disorder. Now, while 61 doesn't sound like a big number, that was
actually 61 just surveyed in one day.
Without a secure place to receive help, like St. Matthew's
House, Warrior Homes of Collier, and the proposed DLC or central
receiving facility, folks, to live in affordable housing, recovery
becomes more difficult and the crisis of emergency rooms, jails, and
homelessness continues at a great human and financial cost.
Affordable housing is more than a roof over someone's head.
For individuals with mental health and substance use disorders, it is
the cornerstone of their recovery. Research and local experience, of
which you have a plethora of in this room today, show that
supportive housing leads to better health outcomes, reduces reliance
on emergency services, and allows people to contribute meaningfully
to our community.
We have an opportunity, in fact, it's a responsibility, to invest in
solutions that work. That includes collaborating with local providers,
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leveraging local, state, and federal resources, and creating incentives
for affordable and integrated housing development.
This is not just a social issue. It is an economic, public safety,
and a moral one. I urge the Commission to prioritize affordable
housing that includes supportive services so that we can build a
healthier, more compassionate, and more resilient Collier County for
all.
At this time, I would like to take a brief moment to introduce our
next speaker, Beth Hatch. Beth is the chief executive officer of
NAMI Collier, a leading non-profit dedicated to improving the lives
of individuals affected by mental illness through advocacy,
education, support, and public awareness.
With a deep commitment to mental health and community
well-being, Beth brings both passion and strategic vision to her role.
Under her leadership, NAMI has expanded its reach and impact,
offering innovative programs that support individuals and families
navigating mental health challenges.
Beth has been instrumental in strengthening collaborations
across healthcare, education, and public sectors ensuring that services
are accessible, compassionate, and rooted in best practices. She is a
respected voice in the mental health community, and Beth continues
to drive forward the mission of NAMI with empathy, insight, and an
unwavering dedication to advocacy and inclusion. My friend Beth.
MS. PATCH: Thank you, Michael, for your kind words.
Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you so much for having
us here today and for your time with all these very important critical
issues that we have in our community. Michael truly hit it all when it
comes to having that basic need, that foundation that we all need.
Before we can get to mental health, we have to have a safe place to
lay our head each night.
And NAMI has been a -- I'm really proud of the work we've
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done, especially this past year. And many of you attended the ribbon
cutting at Ekos, Rattlesnake Hammock, for the senior living, and we
are proud to have placed in November and April, 31 seniors that are
participants of NAMI. And it's not about just placing them into that
new community. It's about the wraparound and the continued support
and sustainability of their success. And I have someone here today to
share that.
But this priority is so important along with all the others, from
the central receiving to transportation. But thank you for taking time
to consider this this morning because it is just the basic needs, and
then you can leave it to us to be able to continue to meet their needs
for a lifelong of change.
It is my pleasure to introduce Daryl Evans. He's one of our
NAMI participants, and we were thrilled to move him into Ekos in
November, and he has a little bit about -- to share. So I know many
of you were involved in that expansion of the housing ability for
seniors, and we thank you.
Daryl.
MR. EVANS: Good morning, Commissioners. I'd like to say
that from your contributions and assistance with NAMI, I have been a
beneficiary of your work, your contributions. I met some of you at
the ribbon-cutting ceremony, and I thank you very much for your
help and support. If it wasn't for your support, I wouldn't be in the
position that I'm in now. I was once outside and homeless, and now I
am inside my own apartment, fully furnished, thanks to NAMI and
your contributions to assisting NAMI, and I'm getting assistance
through Physicians Regional hospital to take care of my high blood
pressure and my other medical conditions of posttraumatic stress.
And I thank you for all that you've done. If it wasn't for your
collaboration and assistance, then there would be a lot of individuals
such as myself, seniors, that would be homeless and destitute and not
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having a place to stay.
I'd also like to say that the challenges that I face now are the
increased costs in the cost of living, utilities, groceries, and things of
that nature. Being on a fixed income, there are challenges that I still
face. But I can honestly say I may not have the key to the city, but I
have the key to my own apartment thanks to NAMI and the county.
Thank you all very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, Daryl, thank you for --
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you for sharing that with us
this morning.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: To represent Priority 3, which is a new
priority, strengthening the behavioral health workforce, we have a
short message from Dr. Courtney Whitt, the director of the Florida
Center for Behavioral Health Workforce at USF.
DR. WHITT: (Via video Zoom) Commissioners, thank you for
the opportunity to speak before you today. I am Dr. Courtney Whitt,
the executive director of the Florida Center for Behavioral Health
Workforce.
We were legislatively commissioned in July of 2024 to grow,
retain, and innovate the state's behavioral health workforce through
research, dissemination of best practices, education, policies analysis,
and, of course, to succeed in any of it, collaboration. We are proudly
housed at the University of South Florida but stand in service to the
state.
I come to this role inspired and on a mission from eight and a
half years of clinical and administrative service and strategic
community engagement in Collier County.
Then and now workforce shortages were a critical threat to
timely access to services when and where an individual or family
needed it the most.
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More specifically, in Collier County, there's only one behavioral
health provider for every 860 Collier residents. This is relative to a
state ratio of 490-to-1 and a U.S. ratio of 320-to-1, and this varies by
discipline. For example, our analysis show that there are less than
three psychologists, only two psychiatric mental health nurse
practitioners, 1.4 psychiatrists, and one licensed marriage and family
therapist for every 10,000 residents.
Further, these numbers do not account for individuals who hold
residence in a home state but spent substantial time in Collier County
and utilize services, nor do these numbers ensure that a licensed
Collier provider sees patients full-time or at all, nor does it ensure
that they accept insurance, including Medicare or other commercial
insurances.
Workforce threats compromise getting ahead of crises as well as
continuity of care which we know is essential for building trust,
making the meaningful progress to resolve symptoms, improve
functioning, and buffer against relapse.
They also undermine our efforts to reach new heights of
innovation and service delivery. And while there's an incredible
spirit of partnership and collaboration in Collier, we also recognize
we could create new positions, but we are not growing the workforce
sufficiently to function optimally.
And if one of us were vulnerable with our primary care, schools,
outpatient services, or crisis units, we were all vulnerable.
I am incredibly excited by what can be achieved with the county
stamp of support for the next chapter of the Collier County Mental
Health and Substance Use Strategic Plan, which now includes
workforce as a strategic imperative. The Florida Center for
Behavioral Health Workforce helped to contribute to the
development of the plan and is willing to provide technical assistance
and support to this end. And I personally have no doubt this could be
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one more example where Collier can be a model of excellence and
define what's possible statewide.
Thank you for your consideration.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: For Priority No. 4, we have a message
from the Honorable Janeice Martin.
JUDGE MARTIN: (Via video) Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners. It's my privilege to champion our fourth priority and
offer you a very short update on what we're doing to address these
needs within the justice system.
I want to start by thanking you for the incredibly warm welcome
that you each gave our group last month when we came in for the
drug court proclamation. Your very authentic and public display of
support for the men and women we serve meant the world to our
clients and our team, and we are grateful to each of you for your
leadership in this very powerful aspect of our justice response to
behavioral health.
As you are well familiar with the work of our problem-solving
courts, those being drug court, mental health court, and veterans
treatment court, I want to mention very briefly another angle from
which we are working to improve the justice response to persons with
behavioral health needs.
A subcommittee from this coalition worked very hard to build a
one-day intensive training taught by local professionals which targets
all staff within the courthouse from clerks to guardians ad litem to
prosecutors, public defenders, civil attorneys, judges, and judicial
assistants.
The goal of the training is to provide everyone who labors in this
building with a basic competency regarding mental health disorders,
substance use disorders, various treatment modalities, trauma, and its
impacts on behavioral health, and also resiliency, and its power to not
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only bring recovery to those who have these disorders, but also its
power to help trauma survivors potentially avoid or at least mitigate
the effects of trauma when treatment and support are given to that
survivor in an appropriate and timely fashion.
The feedback we have gotten from the very diverse group of
professionals who have attended our training has been overwhelming.
They recommended it to their colleagues, and they seek further
training. We plan to continue this planning, offered twice per year,
and we hope to add a second phase that will be online and
specifically build on that trauma and resiliency piece.
So we continue to be incredibly proud of the advances taking
place within our justice system, and we thank you for your continued
support and leadership in this arena. Thank you.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Here to represent our new Priority No. 5,
Dale Mullin from Warrior Homes of Collier.
MR. MULLIN: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. MULLIN: Believe it or not, about six years ago I stood, I
think right here, and reported to this commission that we conducted
our first veteran homeless count.
One of the commissioners that's on the dais today was out there
that day and involved in that count, and we counted 47 homeless
veterans living in Collier County. That's the good news. We found
them, we located them. The sad news is there were no beds for these
veterans.
Today, fast forward six years, we have six houses/properties, we
have 39 beds, and we have housed a total of 87 veterans year to date.
These veterans range from as young as 33 years of age to 91 years of
age, and because of that variation in age, the needs are very great.
The earlier -- the veterans that tend to be much younger have
substance use issues. The veterans that tend to be more 72 and older
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tend to be senior veterans that are on fixed incomes. But the average
veteran on a fixed income, income averages about $1,200 a month.
We charge them 30 percent of their gross income, so the balance of
that is made up by the charity.
I also want to thank you, the Collier County, for providing those
two houses and signing off on that, six more beds. I could tell you
what's really appreciated; the veterans that live in those two houses
today are happy. They think they died and went to heaven living in
those beautiful homes. And we're very happy, and we're very
thankful for that.
Five years ago January, this past January five years ago, we
opened our first house, which was alpha house., and alpha house. was
really opened because -- with a conversation that I had with Judge
Martin about how we could support veterans treatment court and
really what the need was. Judge Martin said, "I need beds. These
veterans that are coming before my court have more time than
money. I need beds. There's many organizations and people that
have promised to open beds in this county. It's never happened. We
need beds."
I went home that night, and that really weighed heavy on my
mind because I'm a veteran myself. I called Judge Martin the next
day, and I said, "We're going to fix that problem. Our charity's going
to fix that problem, and we're going to open up a house in Collier
County," and that first house was alpha house.
That house was opened by the outpouring of this community.
We had some -- we had some fights with the City of Naples to get
that open for zoning reasons, but we won. And we have had 44
veterans go through that house in a matter of five years. They stay an
average of seven months, and the success rates are very high. We're
very excited about that because I can tell you that the pathway
through veterans -- into alpha house. really comes
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through -- primarily through David Lawrence Center.
Veterans that are struggling with substance use issues go
through the -- through the detox first, and then many of them go
through the 28-day program, and then they come to Alpha House.
One of the most extreme cases I laugh about today -- and he's still
involved with Warrior Homes -- is he came from veterans treatment
court from jail, and all he had was his pajamas on and a dead cell
phone.
Five years later, that man has his own construction company,
working. He's out in an outreach program helping veterans in this
community. And I could go on and on and on with stories that have
had an impact on this community and changed the veterans lives.
Our goal is that no veteran will be left behind in this county, but
the pathway through our housing programs really is through David
Lawrence Center and through treatment. We have had to move
veterans to other counties for treatment because there was not enough
beds in DLC, and I really ask you from the bottom of my heart, based
upon my own personal experience, that that service -- those beds are
really needed in Collier County to provide housing for those veterans
to get them stabilized, get them treatment, and then move into Alpha
House and get on with their lives.
It is my opinion, also in our charity, is that until we ensure that
every veteran in this county that wants a bed -- we will never achieve
the most veteran-friendly county in the state. We have to be able to
provide clean, safe beds for our veterans.
I have a short video of a veteran that I'm going to show you that
kind of sums it all up, and he's in the audience here, and he went
through this program. He went through veterans treatment court, he
went through DLC, and he went through alpha house, and I think it
best describes what it's all about.
(A video of Greg Tinsley speaking was played as follow:)
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My father was a Vietnam vet and he -- you know, PTSD, the
whole gamut. But for him, there was a stigma behind it. It was, you
know, shell shock, and he just -- he couldn't get his life together.
Little did I know that I was going to follow directly in his footsteps. I
mean, no well-adjusted together kid says, "You know what, I'm going
to join right after 911, and I'm going to be a combat soldier," you
know.
I got to take part in both the initial strike on Afghanistan, then
Iraq, and then back to Iraq again, and then back to Afghanistan again.
And after 41 months of that, I was broken. I mean, the physical
things that were wrong with me healed, but the rest didn't. You
know, it's just -- it's progressive in nature. It started off where I just
didn't have joy where I had joy, and then it turned into now there is
no joy, and then there's no sleep. Then there's the nightmares, you
know. And then you start self-medicating yourself.
And it starts off as pride. I'm too proud. You know, I'm a man.
You know, I'm a staff sergeant in the United States Army. There's no
reason why I -- why I should have to ask for help. And that pride
turns into embarrassment. You think of the ones that didn't come
home, and you have to -- you have to realize that you're squandering
the life that they lost.
And so you get this guilt and this shame. And finally you have
to try to ask for help. And I mean, that's the big message. If you're
not okay, you're not okay, you know, and get help. For me, that
journey was hard. I went to five different clinics. I walked in and
said, "I am in distress. I need help," and they sent me away.
The last one, which is a local one, put me in handcuffs. They
took me where crazy people were, and I wasn't crazy. I was hurting.
You know, I was just -- my heart wasn't healthy. Nobody -- nobody
taught me how to do that. Nobody taught me how to deal with these
issues.
June 3, 2025
Page 20
And I ended up hurting the ones that I love, pushing everybody
away, just alone with nobody to turn to, and then I got in trouble. Go
figure, right? Hurt people hurt people. And I ended up in veteran
treatment court, which I got to say is one of the best things that ever
happened to me. I got clean. I got sober. But once I got to Alpha
House, I got -- I got a reprieve. Through time and the space and the
resources that I gained through Alpha House, I'm whole. You know,
I'm healthy, and I'm whole and I'm still working that program.
Where I was was not a good place at all.
And I'm not alone. There's thousands of guys just like me.
They say that the OIF and the OEF, guys that went to Iraq and
Afghanistan, 50 percent of those guys that come back have substance
use or, you know, mental health issues. I'm just -- like I said, I'm in a
place of gratitude today because I'm healthy and I'm happy. I mean, I
can look at you guys and say, "I am happy." You know, like that's
what's (audio cut out). Just thank you.
(Video concluded.)
MR. MULLIN: I'll acknowledge Mr. Tinsley who's here in our
audience.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Tinsley, thank you for being
here and sharing the video, and thank you for your service.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: So in the interest of time, we have
submitted a call to action and next steps. I won't take time on that
now, since these are available materials for you. They're action steps.
We want this new strategic plan to be grounded in action items and
strategy. So these have been provided, and we are available.
We've worked really hard on making these very measurable and
concrete. So as I said, I don't need to spend a lot of time on that in
the interest of time, but they are there. They've been submitted. And
we are here to answer any questions related to that.
June 3, 2025
Page 21
Our next steps are to receive your feedback today and
incorporate that into the final draft of the strategic plan. We provided
an overview of the plan but wanted to make sure that we incorporated
feedback from today's workshop before submitting the final 70-page
draft plan, which has all the action plans for each of the priorities.
We do have a couple additional individuals that have come as
members of the Coalition to provide a brief statement. We have -- I
know of at least two, and they've registered through the public
comment process to give their statements just to make sure that we
adhere to the time guidelines today. So we're happy to proceed
however you see fit at this point.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll get to those two
speakers.
And I'd like to ask Mr. Mullin -- Dale Mullin a quick question.
MR. MULLIN: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You had mentioned that six years
ago you did the count, and you had -- you found 47 homeless
veterans. And I know you've continued to do the counts. And your
most recent count, when was that and how many homeless veterans
did you count?
MR. MULLIN: The most recent count was in January by the
Hunger and Homeless Coalition, the point-in-time count. It was 20.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Twenty, okay.
Now, do you feel like that's a fairly accurate count? You know,
obviously, it's a big county, and I don't know what your procedures
are, but did you -- do you come away with that feeling that that's a
fairly accurate count, or do you think that's just a small segment?
MR. MULLIN: I think it's pretty accurate. Yeah, I think it's
pretty accurate. The capacity that we have and the number of
veterans and the coalition and the outreach that's going on in this
community, we've got a pretty good feel for it, so I think it's a pretty
June 3, 2025
Page 22
accurate number. I feel pretty good about it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MULLIN: Michael, do you agree?
MR. OVERWAY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Mullin, I have one -- just want
to add to that question. Do you have any grid at all for the homeless
population that are not veterans?
MR. MULLIN: Michael does. Michael can tell you.
MR. OVERWAY: So, Commissioner, yeah. That's -- the
annual homeless point-in-time count, the Homeless Coalition
administers that annually in January. We had been observing a
steady decline in the amount of folks experiencing homelessness.
And again, it's a one-day count, so it's meant to be a snapshot, not a
full accounting of.
Our number this year actually increased, and we believe that
some of that is due to, again, high housing cost in Southwest Florida
as well as the impacts of the natural disasters that have occurred the
last couple years. So our number last year was about 660. This year
we're slightly over 800 in our one-day count.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Shall I call our two --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, go ahead and call the other
two.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Okay. So I believe we have Ron Stanford,
and then Ben Bridges is going to give -- read a letter from one of our
members.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Troy, do you have any other
registered speakers?
MR. MILLER: No, Mr. Chair. Those are the only two register
speakers I have slips for. Do you want them timed, or do you just
June 3, 2025
Page 23
want them to speak?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, let's just let them go ahead and
speak. If it gets to be too long, then we'll let them know.
MR. STANFORD: I'll try to keep it brief.
My name's Ron Stanford. I'm a peer specialist at the David
Lawrence Center. I've been doing this for 15 years now. And I'm
speaking in representation for my brethren that have bipolar disorder.
It's kind of interesting. Sometimes we have thoughts of -- that
moral decisions they're making, that they've made mistakes with their
moral decisions, and we find out that they actually -- we actually go
into a mode of making poor decisions, a mode.
Good morning. I've had lived experience since I was 26 -- I'm
64 now -- with bipolar disorder, and now I know mental health talks
generally start with statistics and definitions, but instead, let's just say
this: If you've never tried to start a business, call an ex, order 17
snakebite kits, as Kay Redfield Jamison did once, and solve world
hunger all in one evening, you probably haven't had a manic episode.
This morning I want to talk about something that's well
documented virtually -- in virtually every psychology textbook but
still surprisingly misunderstood in real life, and that's the poor
decision-making mode one goes into during bipolar -- a bipolar
episode. When we go into mania, everything speeds up: thoughts,
plans, spending, speech, motion, and confidence. You can feel
powerful, inspired, even challenging, and that's exactly the problem.
There was once a bipolar patient who booked three international
flights one night, none of which he remembered the next morning.
Another decided that she was destined to be a great global speaker
and ordered 5,000 business cards all before writing a single speech.
What's happening here isn't just excitement. It's a collapse of
our ability to assess risk and consequences. We make bold
sometimes disastrous decisions with total confidence that we're doing
June 3, 2025
Page 24
the right thing. We might empty a bank account, send irreversible
texts, quit a job, or start five new projects by lunchtime, and in that
moment it doesn't feel dangerous. It actually feels overdue.
Then finally the episode ends, and we come back to ourselves,
to the credit card bills, the voicemail regrets, the fractured
relationships. We ask ourselves, "What was I thinking?" And the
answer is, we weren't, at least not clearly.
What's worse, people around us often treat those decisions as
moral failures rather than medical symptoms. This is why early
support and informed compassion are so essential for the Coalition
and this workshop. When we understand that mania affects
decision-making just as it does mood, we stop asking "Why did they
do that?" and we start asking, "How can we help before it goes that
far again?"
In closing, we are not -- we are not our worst episodes. We are
people working hard to live meaningful lives while managing
something that can at times get far away from us. When you
understand that even a little, it creates space for safety, for dignity,
and for healing.
And so I want to thank you this morning for your attention and
your willingness to listen not just to the facts but to someone with
lived experiences. Conversations like this remind us that recovery is
not about treatment -- isn't just about treatment. It's about
community, compassion, and the willingness to see each other as
whole human beings. Thanks for being part of that this morning as
we go forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. BRIDGES: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Ben
Bridges, vice president of programs at St. Matthew's House. It's a
privilege to be here this morning.
I have a letter to read from one of our members of the Coalition,
June 3, 2025
Page 25
but since I don't get a time limit, I'm going to take a minute just to
offer a comment on behalf of St. Matthew's House, you know, just
around the corner.
Right now there's 150 people, men, women, and children, that
are under our care that are beneficiaries of the collective good that
this coalition carries out every single day, not only those 150, but
over 400 people on any given night under our care that are
beneficiaries of the collective good that's lived out through this
coalition here. And so we appreciate the support that you lend to us.
You know, 30 percent of our population on any given night falls
under the older adult category, so it's a clear reminder of the need for
these services. Just in this last week, we've had the opportunity to
make five unique calls to the Mobile Response Crisis Unit from
David Lawrence Center at our shelter to effectively and efficiently
meet the needs of the people under our care. That would not have
happened had it not been for the work of this coalition over the last
several years.
And many of you are aware of the unfortunate incident we had
at our thrift store just about a month ago, and it was a stark reminder
of the desperate need of these kinds of services here in our
community.
You know, in a place that is consistently, and rightly so, ranked
as one of the most beautiful places to live in the country, as we see
more and more people become aware of that and join our ranks, I can
think of nothing more important than ensuring as a community that
we have a robust supported well-resourced social infrastructure to
ensure that Naples is a beautiful place to live, not just because of the
nature and the physical beauty, but because of the way that we care
for those at their point of deepest need. It should be a beautiful place
for everyone.
So thanks for your support over these years and your continued
June 3, 2025
Page 26
support.
I have a letter here to read from Mr. Reid Saunders, a member of
our Coalition for Healthy Minds.
It says this: Dear members of the Board of Collier County
commissioners, I'm writing to express my strong support for the
expansion of mental health services in Collier County and to
commend the vital work the Collier Coalition for Healthy Minds is
doing to promote mental well-being within our community.
Mental health is a cornerstone of overall health and well-being
affecting individuals across all ages, backgrounds, and circumstances.
In Collier County, we have seen firsthand the profound impact that
accessible and comprehensive mental health services can have,
reducing stigma, fostering resilience, and ensuring that those in need
receive the support they deserve.
Expanding mental health services is essential to address the
growing demand and to bridge gaps in care. Increased funding,
expanded access points, and community outreach initiatives can help
ensure that mental health support is available, affordable, and
culturally sensitive. Such efforts are crucial for preventing crises,
supporting recovery, and promoting a healthier, more connected
community.
I applaud the Collier County Commissioners and the Collier
Coalition for Healthy Minds for their leadership, advocacy, and
collaboration with local agencies, healthcare providers, and residents
to improve mental health outcomes. Your commitment to creating a
community where mental health is prioritized and de-stigmatized is
inspiring and vital.
Together we can work towards a future where every individual
in Collier County has access to the mental health resources they need
to thrive. I encourage continued support for your initiatives and look
forward to seeing the positive impact of expanded mental health
June 3, 2025
Page 27
services across our community.
Thank you for your dedication, leadership, and hard work.
Sincerely, Reid Saunders.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Open it up for discussion and questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Are there any questions
or comments from the Commission on this introductory part of
the -- we're going to get into the central receiving facility in just a
moment. Any questions in advance of that?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then I want to thank you for the
presentation and all the members of the Coalition for everything that
you do, and we'll go to Item 2B on our agenda, which is the central
receiving facility.
Item #2B
CENTRAL RECEIVING FACILITY - PRESENTED BY MR. SCOTT
BURGESS, CEO, DAVID LAWRENCE CENTER, MENTAL HEALTH
STRATEGIC PLAN PRIORITY 1; DISCUSSED WITH DIRECTION
GIVEN FOR PRESENTATION AT THE BCC MEETING ON 06/10/25
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we placed this item on the
agenda so that we could have further conversation after last
Tuesday's conversation in advance of coming into next week's board
meeting. If you-all have additional questions, also opening it up for
David Lawrence Center if there's anything -- any clarifications or
information that they would like to be able to discuss here. Again,
this can save time and also inform our conversation next Tuesday
when we talk about the operating agreement.
June 3, 2025
Page 28
And with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Burgess.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. BURGESS: Good morning. Thank you so much for the
opportunity to be before you. Thank you for your support. As
somebody that was very intimately involved in the original strategic
plan and involved with this update, I want to say how much we
appreciate your support, your interest in helping us advance these
critically important services for our community.
As you know, and we've discussed before, that in a growing
community we're going to have these growing needs when one in
four are going to be challenged with a substance use challenge, one in
seven are going to struggle with a substance use disorder.
So growing population, growing prevalence creates a situation
where, working together, we're going to be able to leverage each
other's strengths. And I really want to commend and thank my
colleagues that are here this morning and that have been pouring into
this plan, planning, and execution.
I think Commissioner Solis, when he was involved, had said that
he'd not seen a strategic plan gather the momentum and execution to
the level that the mental health and substance use strategic plan had
in his -- in his time. So I really credit the hard work of all these
individuals that are trying to care and support those in our
community, our mothers, brothers, sisters, children each and every
day.
So I want to thank you for the opportunity to present that. We
really look forward to any additional comments that you might have
before we present the final strategic plan for your consideration and
hopefully positive approval.
As it relates to the first priority that was prioritized by the group
last time that we put the strategic plan together, the central receiving
facility has remained the No. 1 priority of this strategic plan and of
June 3, 2025
Page 29
this group. And I know that when we presented before, there
was -- there were a couple of questions that I wanted to make sure to
kind of clear up.
One of those questions was about the total number of beds for
the facility. We are -- we're going to have 87 new beds in the central
receiving facility. So 87 new beds. We will have 33 crisis beds that
will remain at the DLC current campus, so that hopefully answers
that question.
There was another question that came up regarding new staff
that are going to be necessary in order for us to be able to provide the
support in the central receiving facility. That will be 92 new direct
staff that will be needed in that regard. Those were the two questions
that I know that were -- there was interest in bringing that to this
group here today, so I wanted to share those with you and take any
additional questions or comments that you have and be able to
respond to those today, if you would like some of those, or on the 6th
[sic]. I know we have the next meeting on the 6th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, there were a lot of questions
last Tuesday, and we felt that having this as part of the discussion
today might facilitate getting through the process next Tuesday,
because that's kind of a deadline for us. So let's see if there are any
questions or if there's any need for any further clarification in
reference to this. The two issues that we addressed last time, the
bed-count issue, and then the requirements for ongoing funding from
the county were the two elephants in the room, if you will, and so any
communication or questions here?
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. My question can be for
both, but it's predominantly for the County Manager. Has the
operating agreement that was submitted to us last week been
adjusted?
June 3, 2025
Page 30
MS. PATTERSON: We met last week to discuss the topics and
the issues that the -- where the Board had concerns with. We have
not made -- I'm looking at Sally. We have not made any adjustments
to the operating agreement as of now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Burgess, just to clarify, I know we had a number of 72 at
one point in your presentation last week, and you said that was going
to be a number -- a future number, I guess, in the existing facility;
you would eventually end up with 72 beds. And I know the big
question a lot of us were just trying to wrap our head around the 33
beds, because a lot of people were saying they're moving. But from
what I understand is they're moving -- the adult care of the portion is
moving to the new facility, as in 33 beds which, physically, aren't
moving the beds, but they will be occupying -- whoever would have
initially came in the facility that exists now would end up to the
central receiving. But the 33 beds remain in the old, which are now
going to double the size of the juvenile intake?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So in reality, I mean -- and then
the future beds were going to be multi, like, not just designated
for -- because I remember reading something in there that it wasn't
just designated the juvenile, the additional, to make up the 72.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And then you had an overall
number with all that.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So in reality -- you know, I
understand the fact that we're moving service over to adult, but the
beds still exist in the other facility.
June 3, 2025
Page 31
MR. BURGESS: That's absolutely correct. You summarized
that perfectly. So we will -- we will have the adult services in the
central receiving facility. We're not eliminating any beds on our
current campus. We'll be able to -- we'll have the 33 crisis
stabilization beds on our current campus, but they'll be dedicated to
children. That's going to increase the children capacity.
And then we will still have adult substance use disorder beds,
treatment beds that are going to be -- remain available on our current
campus, so those aren't going away either, and that's going to help
support individuals that might be coming out of the central receiving
facility. Maybe they went in under the Marchman Act, and they're in
under the Marchman Act for 24, 48, 72 hours. They need a place to
go afterwards to continue on with their treatment and their support.
They'd be able to use those beds that are remaining on the main
campus in order to provide that support. So you're absolutely right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And the number's 72. So at some
point there's going to be an increased number of beds in the old
facility?
MR. BURGESS: There'll be -- there'll be -- yes, there'll be a
slight increase on the current campus as well, so we're actually going
to have an increase on both sides.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I'll start off a little lighthearted, and then I'm going to get super
frank. First of all, the best line of the -- well, I'll make one
correction. You said our meeting on the 6th, and just for the record,
it's on the 10th.
MR. BURGESS: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's next Tuesday.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, 6/10, I apologize.
June 3, 2025
Page 32
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So just semantics.
Best line of this meeting so far was, "I might not have the keys
to the city, but I do have a key to my own apartment." Okay. That's
a great line. That's a great line.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So -- but here's my frank
conversation here. This is -- first of all, I've been very, very clear,
I'm huge supporter of the central receiving facility. It should go on
the David Lawrence Center footprint, and it should have been
approved years ago. That's just my own personal feeling. Are there
loose ends? Are there questions? No project is perfect. But I
think -- and I said this at the last commissioner meeting, a B-plus
decision now is better than an A-plus decision that never comes.
This meeting is great. We're all singing kumbaya. Everybody is
positive about the need for mental health support. Okay. The proof's
going to be in the pudding in seven days when we come in this room,
and I think it's long overdue that we need to make a decision. And if
the decision isn't on the David Lawrence Center -- this is a -- this is a
majority. I respect whatever anybody else says up here.
But one of the things I had to correct for a senior leader in the
county is it's not the central receiving facility on the David Lawrence
Center property or nothing. It's going to get built somewhere.
Taxpayers supported this. We have the funds for it. It's not getting
any cheaper. It's not getting any bigger. It's shrinking in size and
becoming more expensive, as any project moves forward. And I
know you and I are going to talk after this, and I'm going to -- I'm
going to just take a couple of things off of my notes, and then I'll give
you a deeper dive of just my own personal perspective about in seven
days what I think needs to happen in this room.
First off, I think clarity has to be much better than the last
meeting. It's great that you just clarified for Commissioner Kowal
June 3, 2025
Page 33
the amount of beds. There were five different speakers here at our
last commissioner meeting that all said something different, you
know, that said we're transferring beds, you know, the delta's going to
be 30 instead of, you know, 87, or whatever.
You've got to get your team together, because you need to be
speaking with one decisive voice at that podium. You know, we're
here making a decision using taxpayer dollars -- not county money,
it's money that belongs to the taxpayers -- and we have to feel good
about making it.
And if you're -- you have to make the case that the David
Lawrence Center location is the best and you have the best plan and
all that, and if you can't, we're going to move forward with Plan B,
Plan C, Plan D, but we need to do something.
And I certainly hope that we don't disappoint the community in
seven days by kicking the can or asking to come back with something
else. I mean, I think we are very close. You personally have to
either -- get us over the hump. I know that the County Manager also
has a responsibility there but, you know, I'm hopeful that in seven
days we will make a command decision in here, because obviously
this workshop, nobody disagrees with anything that is said here. But
in the end, you've got to have the beds.
So we could all say we want to help and, Dale, you're doing a
great job, and thanks to the NAMI guys and for the people that are
doing the homeless count. I've been part of that. But in the end, if
alls we have is money in the bank and we haven't put shovels in the
ground, then we've done nothing. And, you know, next Tuesday's the
day to do it.
So I'm going to give you some of my suggestions about what I
would -- what I would need to hear and what I think would help my
colleagues, but the meeting at our last commissioner meeting, to me,
I was even sort of not -- never on the fence but started to be
June 3, 2025
Page 34
concerned that there wasn't a cohesive message.
So, you know, not to get too much into the central receiving
facility, but this was sort of an extra meeting to sort of talk a little bit
about some details that could help to make the best decision, but I
think it needs much more clarity and maybe needs -- you know, I
wrote down here, for lack of a better term, it needs to be dumbed
down a little bit. It was all over the map. I'm just being honest.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: For me, and I think for my
colleagues, or else they would have said, full speed ahead, I
100 percent support it.
But our job's also to make sure that we spend the taxpayer
money wisely. And, you know, if it's not on your facility, then it
might be somewhere else. So I'm looking for real, you know,
extreme clarity, a cohesive voice in seven days.
The questions -- you know what the questions are that are out
there. This isn't that complicated. We're not building the
International Space Station here. You know, this is the operating
agreement. What's the loose ends? Somebody figure out the math
equation on the beds because I think we've all heard, like, eight
different options. And you may not think that, but I can tell you on
this side multiple people had all different numbers.
And so then, regardless of if they're just misspeaking or some
are confused, or they haven't the latest update or whatever, then that
puts question in our mind that maybe this isn't a tight operation, and
just to move forward and go, "We'll all figure it out in the end" isn't,
you know, our focus.
You know, on the flip side nothing's, like I said, ever going to be
100 percent perfect. You know, your job is to get us as close to
perfect as possible.
I'll end it by saying what is imperfect right now in our
June 3, 2025
Page 35
community is the number of beds of people who need mental health
support, and I think that really needs to be our focus. And so this
central receiving facility needs to go somewhere. It seemed like we
were gravitating towards the David Lawrence Center location. If
we're not, then I look forward to hearing what the next best option is.
But the imperfect thing is what we're hearing today, that the
need greatly outpaces what we have in existence, and I think, you
know, that needs to be our number-one focus, and we need to help
solve that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, can you put
that -- turn the visualizer on?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Scott, I asked the County Attorney
to draft up a potential -- you know, move it up just a little bit so
you -- thank you. I had the County Attorney draft up some language
that I'm certain is not perfect, but I thought this would clarify the
bed-count issue. Take a look at that. It's just the -- it's just the
underlying portion. If the Commissioners could take a look at that as
well.
Something to that effect takes the bed-count issue off the table
completely. There is no confusion. You have a contractual
obligation to have 87 new beds along with the beds that you currently
have; there would be no confusion about that.
And this may not be worded the way that would be the most
clear, but I'm thinking in terms of just some contractual language that
basically says you've got 33 beds now. You're going to continue to
operate those 33 beds, you'll have 87 at the opening of the facility,
and you're going to continue to operate those 87 plus the 33.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. I'm seeing this language for the very
first time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. I apologize for that.
June 3, 2025
Page 36
MR. BURGESS: No -- and that's okay. And I'm happy -- as I
look at this right now, it doesn't give me heartburn because it's -- we
do have 33 beds. We're going to continue with 33 beds. But clearly,
that would be something that I'd have to take back and take a look at
with my board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, have Mr. Yovanovich take a
look at it. Then he'll give you heartburn, perhaps, over this. But
something like this, I think, would just take that issue off the table so
there's no need to have six people talk about the different types of
beds.
Commissioner McDaniel, you were next.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
And thank you for the stab at the quantification of the beds. I
have to say I was very clear on the bed count. I was very clear. I
wasn't -- I wasn't misled. I mean, I knew -- we knew walking in here
what those, in fact, were. As Commissioner LoCastro said, there was
a lot of different people with different opinions, but bottom line, I
was very clear on the bed -- on the bed count.
I'm very clear on the need. I've talked about this need since I
became a county commissioner eight years ago. There's no argument
that there's a need. There's no argument that a central receiving
facility is, in fact, an answer to addressing the need. We've talked
about -- we talked about it way back when, when you first came
before us asking for more money to support our Sheriff's Department
with regard to the Baker Act and the Marchman Act. We talked
about it again the following year when we allotted more money to
help DLC's efforts and what they're doing.
And for me it was easy. And I don't want to -- I don't want to
rationalize a human element with money. But at the end of the day, it
was -- it was -- it was costing us more to incarcerate these people.
June 3, 2025
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And we all know there's little to no rehabilitation that comes with
incarceration.
It was costing us more money to incarcerate these people than it
was to offer some kind of support, some kind of mechanism of
support.
Having said all that, I cannot believe that I'm sitting here today
with these discussions that we've been having for all these years, and
that operating agreement that was put before us last week is not fixed.
Terribly disappointed. I can't -- I can't even fathom someone asking
me, who represents the taxpayers of Collier County, to enter into an
agreement like that. And it hasn't been fixed.
MR. BURGESS: Can you clarify "fixed" for me?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I can when you and I meet
later. I believe you and I have a meeting later on today. I will clarify
it then. It's not a discussion for us to be having in public.
To quantify the largest disappointment that I have, the operating
agreement -- in writing in the operating agreement that we now that
have that we didn't have in December typifies the PowerPoint
presentation that you put in front of this board in December, and the
fourth page of that PowerPoint presentation said, "We're going to
operate this new facility to the best of our abilities if we have enough
money, and if we don't, we're going to cut services."
And the operating agreement that was put in front of me last
week said the same thing in writing. Do I need to be any more clear
than that?
MR. BURGESS: No. I'm happy to have the discussion with
you, because there's a lot of additional clarifiers in there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, having said all that,
Mr. Burgess, I can't express how disappointed I am that I'm having to
have this conversation right now. That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
June 3, 2025
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COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
Just -- I'm going to steal a couple of things off of my notes, and
then I'm going to save the rest for when we talk.
I really think the bulk of the confusion at the last meeting was
you had multiple speakers, including yourself, that when you -- you
know, we always say up here words matter -- Commissioner
Saunders is the key [sic] of saying that -- and it does.
When people say we're transferring beds, that right there is
something that was a red flag. If you're transferring the mission of a
bed and then you're recreating a different mission in the bed, you
guys didn't say that, okay. And I don't know how many times we
tried to pull that out of you, and at the end we sort of got to it.
But like, as Commissioner McDaniel is referring to, or maybe
I'm inferring something here, when I start to hear sloppy
conversation, I'm not willing to write a $50 million check for
anything for the taxpayers to buy. I need to hear that, you know,
we've got -- we've got a solid team in lockstep.
And I think the word "transfer" confused a lot of people, and
then I wrote in my notes here, we weren't building this central
receiving facility -- we the taxpayer -- so that David Lawrence Center
can somehow reorganize and be more, you know, cohesive and more
efficient and all that. We want all of that, and maybe all that comes
later, but the inference was, "Wow, once you build this on our side of
the street, we're now going to do a whole bunch of different things to
take advantage of the facility you're building for us." I'm not saying
that's true. It sounded that way to me, okay. It sounded -- and I'm a
supporter of this.
And so I was like, "Man, why am I hearing this?"
So that's a little more feedback for you, that clarity and exactly
what you're doing, but you can't take back some of the words that you
and some of your other supporters said at the podium at the last
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meeting. And I'm kind of in line with Commissioner McDaniel that
I'm sitting here saying, "God, I just can't believe that we're screwing
around with this thing still in small little sentences here and there."
And I did expect to come to this meeting hearing that the
operation agreement was agreed to or was overhauled or for you to
say, "I can't take it any further, so we're not close enough. You
should go to Plan B. David Lawrence Center isn't your partner
because I can't meet the needs of what you're -- what the county
expects or needs or demands."
I think a lot of it is just miscommunication in some respects, but
then in some other areas, I actually think we're not as close as I had
hoped we would be after all this time. But there definitely were some
words -- confusing words used at our last commissioner meeting that
I don't think helped the cause.
MR. BURGESS: Can I just make one quick comment?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
MR. BURGESS: And I take the point that you're talking about
with the language and the clarity and, certainly, we're trying to make
sure that that's completely dialed in, and we've got a slide already
prepared that's been -- on the beds and all of that that's been approved
by everybody, including county staff. We've already had those
meetings. We'll make sure that seven days from now that's as clear
as can be.
My understanding, outside of this brand-new language that was
just presented today, is the operating agreement was agreed to. We
are agreeing to that. The county is agreeing to that, the county staff.
So I've not come to -- I didn't come last week and I didn't come
today thinking that we have any issues related to the operating
agreement other than what now has been presented, of which I will
take back. So if there's -- if there's additional items that people are
feeling need to get into the operating agreement, they have not been
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discussed in depth and detail. So I would -- I would like to get that
information.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That's a huge disconnect,
because we've all met with the County Manager, and we met with our
Clerk of Courts, who represent a whole group of people, and at least
the message in my office, and I'm sure in the offices of the other
commissioners, was that there was disagreement.
I mean, our Clerk of Courts gave all of us deep detail. Maybe
some of it I agreed with or didn't -- or disagreed with. That's
immaterial. The rationale -- or the reality is, she's a main -- and her
office is a main portion of the decision-making process.
So we may not -- I may not have an issue, but if she does and
she's articulating it, or our County Manager does, then we do have a
problem, because we all want to paddle in the same direction. And
we -- I value what they feel. I value it deeply.
So I think you're incorrect there that -- thinking that everything's
already been agreed to, and, you know, you don't -- you don't know
why we're not putting shovels in the ground. There's definitely, in
my opinion, disagreement among our county staff and our senior
officials who have been, you know, in the discussions from day one,
and then that feedback's coming to us, and that's where we're hesitant
to just, you know, put a rubber stamp approval on this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: My understanding is that staff had
agreed with the David Lawrence Center on the terms of the operating
agreement. The purpose of this meeting is to flesh out those types of
issues, because the last thing we want to be doing next Tuesday when
we're really under the gun -- that's kind of a drop-dead day. The
purpose of having this on the agenda today is to go through those
details so that we can move through this smoothly next week and not
get bogged down.
Commissioner McDaniel, you've said you've got issues with the
June 3, 2025
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contract. This is the time to bring some of those forward so we can
discuss them. You're going to have a conversation with Scott
Burgess in the next couple of days. We're not going to know
anything about that until next Tuesday. I just don't think that's a very
efficient way to move forward. If you've got some issues, let's bring
them out. Let's talk about them.
I've gone through this agreement with our staff. I've spoken
with Ms. Patterson and with the County Attorney, Ms. Ashkar, and
my understanding is all the terms of that agreement had been agreed
to by all the parties.
I understand the Clerk has some issues. I don't know if they are
specific legal issues that have not been addressed. I know she's got
some funding issues, and legitimately so. But in terms of the actual
operating agreement, my understanding is that's been pretty much
agreed to. I've added one thing to clarify an issue. If there's some
other issues that need to be clarified, let's at least put them on the
table so that all five of us have the ability to think about them.
Commissioner McDaniel, if you've got some issues, let's bring
them forward. This, I think, is really the best time to do that.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
Hi, Scott.
MR. BURGESS: Hey. Good morning, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I'm still not clear. We are going
to build 87 beds in the new central facility if we approve this.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So we have a new facility for
56 million that we're going to build. You have a facility that's
already paid for, and you're operating 33 beds. Okay.
If we will build 87 new beds with $56 million of taxpayers'
money and you take some of the services that you're providing that's
June 3, 2025
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already paid for and put them over in the new facility, to me that's a
reduction of additional new available beds.
And so I just want to make sure -- and so Commissioner
LoCastro said it, when we talked about transferring adult beds to the
new facility, to me that's not an increase of 87 beds. That's just a use
of the new facility for your adult services so you can make room
that's already paid for for your children's services.
And I just want to be clear. In my mind, I love the fact that you
were not going to transfer any services; that we're going to build 87
new beds and put 87 new potential patients in those beds. That made
me feel great until I started listening, and I still thought maybe there
was some transfer of adult beds over here to the -- this is paid for.
This is new money that -- and this is all I'm concerned about is the
56 million. So help me there.
MR. BURGESS: Okay. The -- I think the best way I can say it
is it's 87 -- there's going to be 87 new beds. We've got 33 right now.
We're going to build 87 in this new facility.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We are going to build 87 beds.
That's not --
MR. BURGESS: That's a plus 87.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So when we get the beds built --
MR. BURGESS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- is there any adult services that
you have already operating going to move over to --
MR. BURGESS: We will consolidate adult services into an
adult building.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's what I'm saying. The net
increase is not 87 beds, because you're already operating some of
those adult.
So I get the strategy, but Commissioner LoCastro said it, we
can't mix and mingle and enhance David Lawrence Center's
June 3, 2025
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operations on new taxpayer money, and that was what I was trying to
get to.
As far as the operating agreement, there is one part -- you know,
we did a -- staff did a great job trying to take the risk off of the
people and letting -- and making you, as the operator, assume those
risks. But it came to my attention that one comment made by the
chairman of your organization, when asked if things don't go
right -- you know, if your operating is not covered and there's a gap
to be filled, what are the options? And if -- you said -- he said,
"Well, we can lower services." We can ask the people to -- we can
ask the county commissioners to fill the gap, or we can -- we can
purchase -- purchase the building outright.
And so when asked, Mr. Morton if -- you know, if none of these
things were a possibility, then he just said, "Well, then we'll just
leave," and that's not the right answer for me.
I looked at the operating agreement, and I didn't have a real
issue with that. I love the fact that, you know, kind of the burden's on
you, and you've got teeth in the deal. But then when I looked at the
financial statement, we're losing -- we're planning on losing
900-something-thousand dollars per year. And to me, that is a
planned -- that's a plan to fail, and I don't want to enter into an
agreement that's planning to fail.
I understand that there are some revenue options from naming
rights; that's great. But is that going to be 900 -- is the naming rights
going to provide 900-something-thousand dollars per year going
forward, or are those just one-time revenues? Just a question I've got.
I don't want -- I don't feel good about entering an agreement
that's planning to fail or that says, "Hey, if we don't make it, then
we're just going to lower our services," because we don't have the
choice of lowering our 56 million. If we build this facility and you
lower the services, we're still -- the taxpayers are still on the hook for
June 3, 2025
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a $56 million facility.
Those are my issues, and they're real, and they're common sense,
and they're not -- you know, I just don't want to just -- Mr. Evans'
testimony, the other guy, I mean, that moves my heart like you can't
imagine. It's not about that I don't want to do something good for the
public or good for the mental health or to help people. We want to
get there, but we want to get there where we don't fail in the future or
where we don't have to say "Hey, we just screwed up. We didn't plan
great. We kind of put the cart before the horse because we were
excited about the services that we're going to provide for the public."
I want the horse before the cart, and I want this thing to work year
after year after year.
So that's my -- I want to see that the plan -- the financial plan to
operate either trimmed down and let's see what's real going forward
for the first month or the first year. I don't want to spend -- you
know, our -- the scab that we have on the sports complex is a pretty
raw scab. We've spent a lot of money -- a lot more money than what
we ever planned on doing, and we have a -- we have a world-class
facility, but we should have -- we could have planned that first to get
that world-class facility instead of, well, this is necessary now; we're
under the hook. This is necessary now; we're on the hook.
We don't want to be the big disappointment for mental health
services in Collier County, and if you have to come back to us
because we didn't plan to win in the beginning, and if you have to
come back to us, I can't say that I'm going to be a supporter of baling
it out. I want to be -- I want to win going in. If we plan to win, then
we win. If we plan to fail, then we fail. We just -- can't just chance
it. We can't just throw it on the wall and see what sticks.
So I mean, I hope you hear my heart about that, and that's -- I
think -- I think Commissioner Saunders is correct where this is
the -- this is where we just kind of need to hash that stuff out so we
June 3, 2025
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don't get in the public meeting in two [sic] weeks and still don't have
these things worked out and ironed out and buttoned up. So thank
you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
That's -- I'm kind of under the same agreement as Commissioner
Saunders, because I wouldn't think staff would have brought the
agenda item last Tuesday of the contract itself if they didn't feel we
met somewhere and just have us vote on it, because the intent was
last Tuesday. We brought a bunch of questions up about what we
saw, and that's why we are here today. It's not that the staff and
David Lawrence had come to some sort of agreement, or we never
would have saw it as an agenda item. It would never have made it to
the agenda.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They wouldn't have put it before
us to vote on it last Tuesday; that's my position. That's what I felt
through my meetings, that that's why we ended up where we were
Tuesday.
The problem was when we sat up here, the way we are, and we
like to look at things at a deeper dive, we had a lot of questions about
it, and that's where we ended up today. We could have took a vote on
Tuesday on it up or down, and we chose to move it to get more
educated and understand some more of these questions.
And this is more along the line -- I'm going to -- I'm just going
to try -- this bed number thing, we just keep going -- revisiting and
revisiting these physical beds. And I'm just going to try to -- my own
opinion and how I see it, I don't -- I'm not counting beds. I'm
counting service. And the reality is that 87 beds is the number that I
guess we got to at some point for this new facility.
And the fact is, you can't -- and it could be statutorily -- I could
June 3, 2025
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be wrong. But you can't treat juveniles and adults in the same area or
within the same treatment area. And I think once the licensing of this
building comes online, the adult service is going to have to be
centrally located in the central receiving area because of statutory or
permitting or licensing purposes.
So in reality -- I look at it this way: We are actually gaining
beds because our juveniles still need the treatment in Collier County.
They deserve the services just like anybody else. By having the
facility built itself, our adult services that are on an emergency type
basis, your Baker Acts, your Marchman Acts that come in
unannounced, brought in by law enforcement, first responders, fire,
and even family members at times can go to the central receiving
center and get the initial help as adults. But if they have juveniles,
then they'll go to the existing facility, which now has a greater
capacity to handle these issues, and we don't have to send them to
Lee County or Hendry County like we had in the past because we
don't have enough beds for juveniles in crisis.
To me, if you put it in that kind of mindset, by one being built,
you ultimately increase beds for service in Collier County. It's just a
net number of service, not so much actually counting beds. And to
my -- that's how I'm starting to understand it when I take a more
personal deep dive into it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's
pretty much on the basis because of the -- you're statutorily driven,
the certificates of operation are driven, and now we've created 87
beds to service these people in crisis as adults, and we're creating
more beds in crisis as juveniles, to service all of Collier County
citizens.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's why I asked the County
Attorney to draft this language to put in the contract so that they are
contractually obligated to operate 33 beds that they're operating
now -- they'll be children's beds -- and to operate 87 beds at the new
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facility, and those will be for the adults. And so I think this clarifies
that.
Now, Commissioner Hall, there is a transfer of some of the use
of those 33 beds. The adult use of those 33 beds will be transferred,
but the number of beds will he remain the same, and so our kids will
have a better opportunity to get services here instead of being
transferred up to Lee County or wherever they have to go.
So to me it's just -- this, I think, clarifies that. We may need to
massage this language a little bit, but I think it -- I think it's there in
terms of the bed count.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want to remind everybody
that when we were asked to enter into the lease for the operations of
this facility, there wasn't even an operating agreement in place. I
brought the minutes from when we approved this location for the
lease. There wasn't an operating agreement in place. There
is -- there is one now, but there wasn't one before. And if I hadn't of
brought that up, we would have entered into the lease, and there
wouldn't be a discussion about this.
One of my -- one of my issues with the existing operating
agreement is and has been the cost centers. Again, I'm -- I'm quite
content, quite happy, quite pleased, quite grateful of what David
Lawrence Center has done for our community over the years. I'm
discontent with the separation of cost centers.
I heard 87 new beds over here, 67 new beds in your -- in your
existing facility, but the segregation of cost centers isn't part of at
operating agreement. The operating agreement that I had, that I read,
that I reviewed talked only about the operational aspects of the new
facility.
I have an audit issue. I'm looking -- I'm looking at this
operational agreement. I don't have the professional knowledge to
June 3, 2025
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discern the requisites of care for different people that show up with
different issues along those lines. I have to believe that that was
vetted out with people that do have knowledge. I'm not -- I'm not
qualified to do that.
What I am qualified to do, what I have been -- what I have been
asked to do is to be a steward of the taxpayers' money.
I go all the way back to when you were the chair of the
stakeholder committee. This particular location was No. 4 on the
locations that were selected by an independent consultant that we
hired and gave us advice as to where to go with this.
And so leading all the way up to where we are today, here we
are at the seventh [sic] hour, we still haven't adjusted the operating
agreement. There were known deficiencies in that operating
agreement.
Commissioner Hall typified it when he spoke, and that was
when he asked the chairman of your board to present this operating
agreement to one of his many billion-dollar-plus hedge funds and ask
them to accept it. They wouldn't because it's an open-ended door.
It's an open-ended circumstance.
I've shared with you my particular points with regard to the
deficiencies in that agreement. I need to see specific delineation in
cost centers and how it's going to be managed, and the language with
regard to the level-of-service reduction has to go away.
I still can't say, in all sincerity that -- I still can't say that I'm
going to support this. I haven't been in support of this since it was
moved from the on-site locations that were advised to us in the first
place.
MR. BURGESS: For point of clarification, I think it's really
important -- because you've mentioned it a couple of times now -- the
original prioritization that was done on locations, you would concede,
did not take into consideration the actual services that were going to
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be provided, what's a therapeutic environment for those to be
provided, if the state was going to provide any grant dollars if it was
located on the county complex next to the jail. None of those factors
were brought into that initial ranking of those locations, correct?
And then after those were taken into consideration, that's where
the recommendation was made to have it moved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I don't -- I don't mean
any disrespect, but I didn't see any data that showed that we were
going to be denied any kind of grant monies and any state facilitation
or any support from the agencies, if you will, with regard to the
financial construct of this location. I heard people say that the on-site
facility was going to be a detraction for people that seek assistance on
their own because of the proximity to the jail. I didn't concur with
that thought process, so --
MR. BURGESS: I agree with the second part of your phrase. I
believe if we look back at the transcripts, you'll see that there was
somebody that represented the state that made that claim about a
reduction in grant dollars that would not be made available.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Regardless of that, you know, a
decision was made for a particular location. I don't remember all the
details, Commissioner McDaniel, but one of the concerns, quite
frankly, was the future of Collier County Government, the buildings
and things that we need. There were a lot of factors that went into
that ultimate decision.
And I think there was a lot of -- quite frankly, I think there was a
lot of discussion in terms of the validity of the recommendations they
were even making. But regardless of that, the decision's been made
that it's going to be at this location or not. But we're not looking at
locations right now. We're looking at whether we're going to approve
this project. And so, you know, rehashing that, I think, is instructive,
perhaps, but I think that's not kind of where we are right now.
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We're going to need to take a break here for the reporter. But
let's finish up with your comments, and then we'll take a break.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And then I want to add some
short -- and then we'll break.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I agree with the Chairman that
this is the meeting to be clear and transparent and get things out so
that when you come back here in seven days we have the best chance
to make a decision.
If the statement is being made that the county and David
Lawrence Center actually is in full agreement with the operating
agreement, I think you're hearing that that might not be true. And the
one other thing I'll add -- because, you know, we've talked about the
beds and a few other things -- the naming rights is a multimillion
dollar, you know, possibility.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And from the meetings I've
gotten in my office with county staff, Clerk of Courts, and, you
know, just the other deep dives that I've done, that seems to still be a
disconnect. And so it may not be a showstopper. And if it's not a
disconnect, then that's when I say, in seven days somebody come to
this podium and, with clarity, explain exactly what's going to happen
and what everybody's agreed to. And I have yet to hear that.
And it still hasn't necessarily gotten me off of support of DLC,
but I mean, I'm only one vote up here. And so naming rights and
who's going to get the millions of dollars, who's going to control it, to
me that is also part of the operations of the central receiving facility,
and I don't think that part is tight either.
So that's more of just advice. And I agree with the Chairman,
this is -- this is a workshop to talk about the things that are sort of still
thin, still a little bit cloudy, and I think that's one of them. I know it
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is.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's take a recess until 10:45.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Then you'll come see me.
(A brief recess was had from 10:34 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'll please take your seats,
we'll reconvene. I believe we were still going through some
commissioner comments.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just -- I want to reiterate the fact, you know, we all -- you and
I, especially, because we've got the most longevity up here, have
been on the short end of votes when it comes along. I wasn't -- I
wasn't in support of the original vote that came forward when this
location was selected.
There may have been extenuating circumstances, but I -- I'm not
bringing up sour grapes because I didn't prevail on the vote. I do
believe that the location of the facility is, in fact, relevant. I do recall
that the needs assessment that was originally done asked for 120
beds, and I've subsequently watched that need not go down but go up,
and the expenses associated with the cost of this facility has reduced
the number of new beds.
So having said that, I have listened to several of my colleagues
up here this morning allude to the fact that our staff was okay, that
our clerk was okay, and I'd like to -- with this operating agreement,
and I'd like to ask our County Manager and our Clerk, if possible, to
express some of their thoughts with regard to what's transpired and
what has brought us to this date today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We'll have -- Mr. Kinzel, if
you could come on up. A couple things originally when we were
looking at this site, my preference, quite frankly, was the site here on
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campus.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mine, too.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I became convinced, based on all
the evidence, that that was not going to be the right location. But
again, we're not litigating that issue.
And then the other thing is just so -- I don't think anyone up here
said the Clerk was okay with any of this. I said I think the Clerk's got
some issues. I'm not sure if those are legal issues or not, which is
different than some of the financial issues that we may have. So I
didn't want to make it sound like I was saying that the Clerk is okay
with this, because I know you've got some issues with it, so...
MS. KINZEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This will be a good time to go
through that. But we still need to kind of hone in on contractual
issues if we -- because we're going to wrap this up here fairly soon.
So if there are contractual issues that we need to address, let's try to
do that.
MS. KINZEL: Okay. And I'll let the County Manager speak for
herself, but we were all in similar meetings.
I think the contract and best summary -- the contract that's
before you is before you because we were unable to get David
Lawrence to commit to paying for the operating cost or defining
those costs and the source. It led back to the language that says, "If
it's a shortfall, they'll come to you. If you don't fund it, they'll reduce
service." That, seemingly, was the best we were going to get from
David Lawrence.
I personally think that they had originally committed to the
operating costs and maintenance in the first surtax obligation.
The other indicator is that we gave over the entire naming rights
so that they would have the ability and the opportunity to get
endowments, get donations for the causes that they're used to being in
June 3, 2025
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that business.
So between those two things, our expectation would be -- my
expectation. Let me not speak for anyone else. My expectation
would have been that they were going to commit to covering the
operating costs.
They're in that business. They plan it, they know what the term
of the lease is, and there should not be a 900,000 shortfall in the pro
forma which can escalate over years that then that gap increases.
One of the other segments of the contract indicates that if there's
a shortfall in any state, local, or government federal grants, that we
would also maybe have to cover those in this gap. Again, not looking
on the horizon and not knowing which state and federal, local grants,
that leaves an undefined liability on the county and the taxpayers.
When I say "county," it is the taxpayers. And so those are some of
my very specific contractual concerns.
The beds, again, the allocation of beds and the types of beds
were fairly defined -- not fairly. They were actually defined in that
original pro forma for the surtax. That has morphed considerably.
Today, here again, at first you heard, no, "We're going to keep
the 33 beds, and we're still going to build the 87." Then when
pressed further, it went back to, "Well, yeah, but the 33 are going to
be something different."
So the type of bed is very important for the reimbursement and
for the capacity to earn the revenues, and that is a direct implication
on how we will be able to sustain the funding for the operation of a
$56-million-plus facility.
So those were my specific concerns, and those have been
articulated to David Lawrence over the course of many meetings.
They just were not willing to bring that forward. This is brought
forward to you with that. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
June 3, 2025
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Is Ms. Ashkar still here?
COMMISSIONER HALL: She is.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you could come up because -- on
the issue of the financial obligations of the county, my understanding
is that -- under the terms of this agreement, that if David Lawrence
Center is not able to meet the needs in terms of operating expenses,
they have the ability, as anybody would, to come back to the county
and say, "Hey, we need more money." The county has the ability to
say, "No, we're not going to spend any more taxpayer dollars. This is
your project, not ours, and we're not going to -- we're not going to do
anymore."
At that point, David Lawrence Center has a couple options, just
like any business person would have in any kind of a business, and
that is to change their operations to make the finances work. That
may be reducing services. It may be something. But I don't think
that that's an unusual type of a provision, but I think -- the main thing
is I think it does protect the taxpayers because at that point we can
just simply say, "We're not satisfied with what you're doing, and
we're not going to give you any more money." Is that accurate?
MS. ASHKAR: Let me add a little bit more clarity here. Sally
Ashkar, assistant county attorney, for the record.
It's actually more narrow than that, Commissioner. So it's if the
sources of revenue for the central receiving facility from the feds, the
state, or the county are reduced, then David Lawrence Center can
submit a request to the county for deficit funding.
The county then has the option to either approve that request or
approve a reduction in the level of service to account for the
reduction in those finances that are coming in, or we can terminate
the agreement, at which point the termination section kicks in where
David Lawrence can either purchase the building, and if they don't,
the county can then do whatever they want with the building and bid
June 3, 2025
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it back out if they choose.
So it is a very narrow situation under which David Lawrence
can come back and request that money from the county, and it is tied
to federal, state, and Collier County grant funding, essentially.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So in your opinion, then, does
this -- is this commission binding a future commission to
undetermined obligations to operate this facility? It sound like we're
not.
MS. ASHKAR: Hey, look. At the end of the day,
Commissioner, there's nothing stopping anybody from coming back
and making a funding request. And so we did the best that we could
in this operating agreement to limit those funding requests to when
there's a deficit in funding, and that's the compromise that we agreed
to with David Lawrence Center as we negotiated this agreement from
the beginning.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And you got called up
before I was done with the Clerk. And I don't know if you're
qualified, or not, to answer the question with regard to the audit
between the cost centers.
We're talking about 87 new beds in the new facility, and we're
talking about an increase from the current 27, 33,
whatever -- whatever we have in the existing facility, to a total of 67,
and different cost centers that are going between those two. Are we
satisfied with the capacity to manage the expenses with the
delineation of the cost centers between the two facilities?
MS. ASHKAR: Yes. Thank you, Commissioner. I'm probably
not the best person to speak to that. I'd defer to our finance team on
that one, or the Clerk of Courts.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I didn't mean to ask you the
question, but --
June 3, 2025
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MS. KINZEL: Okay. For the record, Clerk, Crystal.
That's exactly part of the problem. With the pro forma that
you're looking at, it shows, very succinctly, probably about a
$900,000 deficit. The naming rights do come into place, and -- but in
the agreement, they're first going to be used for furniture and fixtures
to offset that part of David Lawrence's obligation, and then they
would be used for any other gap.
So we can wordsmith this any way there is, but the reality is
there appears to be an operating gap that can generate them coming
back to this board. You will either have to fund that gap, which we
don't know really what it is, and -- or they can reduce services in
which you've paid, then, $56 million for a building that may have
reduced services, which I don't think is anyone's goal, because we
just heard this morning that we need more services.
So if David Lawrence were willing to commit to the contract
that they will take the operating gaps and expenses and operate this
facility paying the operating and maintenance that they're
required -- not the overall for the large elements of the building. But
in their original commitment, it was operating and maintenance. And
I'm not seeing that clearly articulated.
So we can say, well, they can come back, and you can say no,
but the reality is, if you say no, services go away, which isn't your
goal to build the whole building.
So it is the Board's decision. I just think that all of that needs to
be on the table for the taxpayers and for this board to make the
decision that you feel is the right one for both David Lawrence, our
population, and the taxpayer.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did you answer my question
about the audit and the cost centers between the --
MS. KINZEL: Yes. There are cost centers in -- they have
over -- they have six facilities. A few other ones are in the works.
June 3, 2025
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They just received donations under naming rights. Four million for
one, 10 million for another. So they do very well in a naming rights
condition. We haven't seen that articulated in what they believe they
will make. At one point they had thought it would make about
28 million to fill some gaps with the naming rights, but we haven't
seen anything solidified with that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I had a question.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Wait a minute. Hang on. Are you
finished?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: He's got a question first.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That you had of Crystal?
I'm sorry. Thank you, Chairman.
MS. KINZEL: No, that's okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just remembered -- we had a
few meetings, and we talked about this in depth. And if -- correct me
if I'm wrong. Do you remember I was discussing is there ever going
to be a time where these monies commingle with what we're building
versus what they already have existing? And is there a delineated
line between them? And you have the ability to audit that and make
sure that that money doesn't creep?
MS. KINZEL: Well, let's -- okay. They partition all of their
money in funds, similar to what we do as a county government.
Utility's money is Utility. General Fund is General Fund. But things
like administrative overhead allocations, that's a very significant
calculation across multiple entities, whether it's six or eight entities
that they will have. So you really have to look.
June 3, 2025
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And Rob does a great job of breaking down all the numbers, but
we have had everything from a $2 million admin allocation to
4 million. I think now it's back to the 2 million allocation to
administrative overhead.
And that will fluctuate with every new thing that they bring
online, and it should go down the more things that they're operating
with the same management staff.
Those are identifiable, and you can audit them, but it is a
significant task that if the Clerk is going to audit that, we will need
special capabilities to be able to discern that.
When you have a bed mix, for example, whether it's a Medicare
bed, a Medicaid bed, whether it's a private pay, all of those revenue
streams will come into certain elements of their operations. Those
have to be identified and assigned to those elements of the operation.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So I guess this would be
County Attorney, too. Is there anything in the contract that gives us
that ability to give the comptroller the opportunity to oversee that?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think there is.
MS. KINZEL: And I found that out. I initially thought it was
on the naming rights portion, but if the -- and that is our role is to
audit where you have funds and money, and I worked with -- we've
worked with Arthrex, we've worked with other large companies.
We've worked with David Lawrence before back in my prior job at
the Sheriff's Office. But it will take additional resources to keep that,
because it's massive.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks.
Ms. Ashkar, I just want to make sure that I understand it,
because the way that I was thinking was if there was an operational
deficit in any sort of way, they could come and ask us. But what you
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were saying was the only way that they could come to the Board and
ask for more money or reduce their services was if a state, federal, or
local grant didn't meet the current obligation.
MS. ASHKAR: If their sources of revenue from the feds, the
state, or the county are reduced, then they can come and submit a
request for operational funding.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if the state's good and the
county's -- we're sticking with our obligation, and all of a sudden
DOGE efforts come screaming forward and the feds reduce theirs,
then they can come to us, ask us to meet the gap for what the feds are
not meeting?
MS. ASHKAR: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And we do not have to respond in a
positive way.
MS. ASHKAR: The county is certainly free to terminate the
agreement. We can deny the request and terminate the agreement.
We can approve the request. The alternative, which we've discussed
extensively here today, is the reduction in the level of service to
account for that deficit.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think, Commissioner Hall,
that would be similar to, I guess, any business. If you had a resort
hotel with certain services and all of a sudden the water -- the
beaches are polluted, tourists stop coming, they're going to reduce
services. So I mean, I think that that's probably a rational provision.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's not -- it's different because a
hotel is their private investor's money. It's not public funds. We're
spending public funds, 56 million, to build an asset that's going to be
operated by David Lawrence Center.
So if they don't operate it like they need to or if some of their
revenue sources get cut, they don't have the choice to sell it. If we
June 3, 2025
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were private investors, we could reduce our services, we could put it
for sale, we could capitalize on the equity. We could do a lot of
things as private, but to be -- it's public money that's building it. And
I just want -- I want to do everything we can to plan to win. If you
plan -- if you fail to plan, you plan to fail, and I don't want to be in
that situation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I agree with you 100 percent.
I think you're absolutely right. It is public money, and we have to be
careful with it, but it just seems like that's a rational provision in case
the world falls apart.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I don't agree -- I mean, I don't agree
with that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And maybe -- you
know, I have a little bit of experience in managing public funds. And
we're looking for an amount for an operational expense that really
isn't able to be ascertained. The regulations change, federal, state
regulations with regard to quality of care. The circumstances change
on a regular basis.
So I certainly -- I understand -- I understand the rationale for the
ask. I'm just -- I haven't been satisfied with process after process
after process that have come here and then -- and not the commitment
to operate the facility. I just haven't seen that.
And so I'd like to ask our County Manager -- I've -- we've had
lengthy conversations with regard to this entire process all the way
from not having an operating agreement at all to what we, in fact,
have now.
I would like -- if you would like to give your comments, please.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. So you're correct, we found
ourselves several months ago getting ready to transact the land, and
all we had was a skeleton of an operating agreement. So that was
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something that the Board had been very specific about, that we had to
have a strong operating agreement. So we were understanding the
roles and responsibilities, both of the county and of David Lawrence.
So we've worked -- and it hasn't been easy.
And so I will say that all of you are right. We're here because
we reached some consensus, but there are still concerns that David
Lawrence is well aware of. And the staff is in a difficult position
because we are trying to provide that protection to the taxpayers
while moving forward a project that's very important to the taxpayers.
So it's an interesting -- interesting place to be.
So through all this time, David Lawrence needed protection, too.
We started with a marriage with no ability to divorce. I think you've
heard us say that. And we needed to be able to account for what
happens if we needed to go our separate ways.
So the teams worked together, and like any negotiation, there are
compromises that are embodied in this agreement. The reduction in
level of service is not something we love, but we understand why
David Lawrence is saying that as an option if there is no funding to
continue on. Besides just saying, "We'll go our separate ways," there
would be the possibility of reducing level of service. That was
something that was offered by David Lawrence.
Regarding the funding, of course, we've tried very hard to get
our arms around that to make sure that those funding sources are
delineated and that the Clerk will be able to audit to the -- to the level
that she needs to. So that's another important piece of this.
Identifying what our financial obligation is, that was a very important
aspect to the Board.
At the last meeting, we knew -- we brought the item forward as
close as we -- and we articulated this the last time, we got the
operating agreement as close as we could. So essentially, again, no
different than any negotiation, with a recommendation that the Board
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review and consider that operating agreement. We had been very
clear in all of our meetings that we expected the Board to have more
questions.
Now, that may not be questions that needed to be embodied in
the operating agreement, but perhaps clarifications or other
information that they would need to make a final decision. For
example, Commissioner Kowal asked how many new employees
needed to be hired. There was, again, some confusion about the beds.
Commissioner McDaniel brought up that he wanted to be sure
that the fundings -- the funding was delineated in the operating of
these different facilities.
So those are things that may simply be able to be addressed by
David Lawrence as part of their presentation, as Commissioner
Saunders has, perhaps things that maybe need slight tweaks to the
operating agreement. That was new today.
So we want to say this: Is that I and the rest of the staff have
been very clear in our concerns throughout this process. David
Lawrence knows very well where we have been positioned and where
we continue to have areas of concern. But, again, it's a balance
between delivering this board something that they can contemplate
that not only protects the taxpayers but also advances a project that
was important to the taxpayers, and that is something that we
presented to the Board for that conversation and for further direction.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, anything else?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman, yes.
I mean, I can appreciate -- because there is a ditch on both sides
of the road, and we don't want to fall in either ditch. But I did have a
thought. If there's a surplus in federal or state funding, could we
agree to let that offset our local match?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Since that probably never would
happen, we probably could. Has there ever been a surplus?
June 3, 2025
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COMMISSIONER HALL: It's if. If a frog had wings --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He wouldn't --
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- he wouldn't bump his butt when
he hopped.
But I was just thinking about if we have to share in the
downside, can we -- can we join in on the upside?
MS. PATTERSON: I'm actually looking in the back at Kristi.
Also, I want to be sure when we -- when you use the term "local
match," that has a very specific definition.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Maybe our local obligation.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, thank you. A local obligation could
be higher than our local match. Thank you.
Kristi.
MS. SONNTAG: Yes. Kristi Sonntag, Community and Human
Services director, for the record.
In answer to your question, Commissioner, local match is
defined by Florida Statute 394 in Florida Administrative Code, and it
states that counties are only responsible to make up the difference.
So if the state says that the match is a million dollars and David
Lawrence Center has other sources of revenue that come to 800,000
and they're short 200-, our only obligation would be the 200-.
MS. PATTERSON: So I think that's a yes.
MS. SONNTAG: Yes. So that -- yes, that -- yes --
MS. PATTERSON: Our obligation --
MS. SONNTAG: So, yes. If they had other sources of revenue,
yes, you could offset our local match obligation, yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Good.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Commissioner Hall, I
can assure you that frogs do not have wings, and I can also assure
you that there typically is not excess funding coming from
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federal/state agencies. There is a huge opportunity for philanthropic
dollars which has been a difficult thing for us to all grab ahold of here
with the naming rights, the delineation of the expansion and the
existing facility after the new facility is constructed and how that's all
going to be orchestrated as well.
And my last question -- and this goes back to what's already
been discussed, is not the pro forma that's in front of us showing a
loss, a million-dollar deficit, 900-and-something a year?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. I don't have to say
any more than that. I don't -- I don't want to walk into something
that's failing on day one.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Are there any other
questions from the Commission?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any other registered speakers? I
think you said there's two.
MR. MILLER: We have two people on Zoom. Would you like
me to call them now?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's hear the registered speakers,
and then I have a comment to make as well.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Matthew Holiday, and he'll
be followed by Megan Edwards.
Matthew -- oh, you've unmuted yourself. You have three
minutes, sir.
MR. HOLIDAY: Good morning, County Commissioners and
Chair. It is my pleasure to speak with you. I hope you can hear me.
This is my first time trying to Zoom in.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We can hear you.
MR. HOLIDAY: On behalf of NCH -- we have tremendous
confidence in the ability of the David Lawrence Center to operate and
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manage this very much needed project. We know that they are
singularly focused on their mission and it would ultimately serve a
very needy population, increase the services across our region and
our community, and ultimately save lives.
We know they are the right care at the right time and the right
place, and I hope that we will all be able to come together and
support this great project and move it forward. And that's all I have
this morning. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: And, Mr. Chair, my other person on Zoom must
have gotten stage fright, as they're now gone.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me just kind of wrap up on this
portion of our workshop. I think it was very beneficial for us to
spend the last two hours on this. If we didn't do this this morning,
then we'd be doing this next Tuesday with a whole lot of other
pressures involved. So I think this has been very helpful.
I would suggest to my colleagues that if there are some specific
issues that are troubling you at this point and need to be addressed
further, perhaps an email to the manager to let her know so she can
get those concerns to David Lawrence Center, because I think the last
thing we want to do is be sitting here on Tuesday with brand-new
issues that no one has talked about or heard of, because that just
simply gets us bogged down.
If there are other issues, Commissioner McDaniel in particular,
if you've got some other contractual issues, let us know so we can
begin to address those, and if there are other funding issues;
otherwise, I think this should go fairly smoothly one way or the other
in terms of getting to a final determination.
Any other comments from the Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then why don't we move on to the
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next item on our workshop agenda.
Item #2C
COLLIER COUNTY 2025 ANNUAL UPDATE AND
INVENTORY REPORT (AUIR)/CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
ELEMENT (CIE) - PRESENTED BY MIKE BOSI, DIVISION
DIRECTOR, PLANNING & ZONING WITH OTHER
PRESENTERS ON SPECIFIC REPORTING TOPICS; DISCUSSED
MS. PATTERSON: Very good. That brings us to Item 2C.
This is the Collier County 2024 Annual Update and Inventory
Report, Capital Improvement Element, CIE, discussion.
This comes to our workshop as a request by -- from a request
from the Board to talk a little bit more about the AUIR and levels of
service that are developed as part of this.
So we have prepared a number of slides from the various
components of infrastructure. Some you're very familiar with, and
they will focus more specifically on needs. Others are going to be a
more -- more in-depth conversation about our levels of service.
Mr. Bosi will start with just a short overview before we move
straight into the various components of the AUIR.
MR. BOSI: Good morning. Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning
director.
Thank you, Amy.
I've got a 10-slide presentation just to kind of give you the
backdrop of the AUIR and some of the components of why we do it
and how it's related to our capital improvements as well as our levels
of service that are experienced throughout the community for the
various commodities that we do provide.
Today's focus, as the County Manager has indicated, the adopted
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level of service. That is the level that we build to to be able to
provide for the infrastructure and the services. The five- and 10-year
list of the projects, some current deficiencies/surpluses in funding,
and development of expected maintenance needs over the five- and
10-year period with expectations, cost associated with that
maintenance as discussed at the May 27th board hearing with
Facilities.
Last -- prior Tuesday when you heard the conversation from
Facility Management of the development of that plan, that's the other
part. Every year we come to you and we have the AUIR Capital
Improvement Element, and those are the projects we need to maintain
with growth.
The other part is the maintenance aspects, and the maintenance
aspects has a lot to do with who we are and where we are at as a
county. We have grown significantly over the last 30 and 40 years.
We've added assets over that period of time to maintain the
population growth. Well, those assets are starting to come to a
critical point in their useful life, and maintenance is a critical
component of maintaining those useful lives.
So the cost associated with that, which is going to be developed
over the next year, will be the final piece of the bigger picture of the
financial obligations that the county has regarding our assets as well
as maintaining our levels of service.
A little bit of history lesson. Ninety -- 1990 was when the
AUIR -- the adequate public facilities ordinance was approved by the
Board of County Commissioners and subsequently codified it in the
LDC, and the purpose was to provide public facilities and services,
make sure that they met or exceeded the standards established in the
CIE required by Section 163.317 and are available for needed -- for
the development associated with the approvals that are provided for;
making sure that growth pays for growth.
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In 6.02.02 of the LDC, we established the AUIR which provides
for the annual determinations of levels of service also -- which is the
concurrency for your Category A facilities and identification of
additional facilities needed. Your concurrency management system
is your Category A facilities. That's your roads, your stormwater,
your public utilities, parks, and schools. Those are your primary that
make up your concurrency management system.
And the AUIR formulates your CIE, which is your Capital
Improvement Element associated with your Growth Management
Plan, and that preps you for your budgetary preparations which start
this -- you know, start this month.
Also, 6.02.02 states, the purpose of the AUIR is the management
and monitoring program that evaluates the conditions of public
facilities to ensure that they are being adequately planned for and
funded to maintain the level of service for public facilities.
Ten years ago the state required that your Category A facilities
were all fiscally feasible, meaning they had to be backed with
revenue -- identified revenue sources. That requirement has been
subsequently lifted. As you will see within this current CIE that we
approved in January, there were some unfunded needs that were
associated, but that is in concurrence with the state law that you're
allowed to have some unidentified revenue sources.
For your Category A facilities, the AUIR serves as identifying
and maintaining your levels of service associated with the capital
facilities, but they're not subject to the concurrency management
system. Essentially, the AUIR is the management and the monitoring
program which ensures that level of service is maintained within the
individual impact fees that are associated with Category B facilities.
And impact fees are something that's directly interrelated with our
capital improvement programming.
We have impact fees that are associated that are gauged to be
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able -- to be able to acquiesce what the cost of providing that service
is for an individual household, and those individual households, as
they are moved -- as they move into the county are charged to be able
to expand the system to accommodate their additional demand.
And it's succinct, and it's a user fee. It's the user who is
expanding the demand for those facilities, so it's the user who is
paying for the expansion of those facilities. And that's the basic
premise of what our impact fees are for.
The rational nexus within your impact fees is population.
Population is the growth within the county that places additional
strain upon the service providers to maintain the level of service. As
such, the level of service established in an impact fee study, facilities
will have to expand to satisfy the demands of the larger population
base. Basically, it's saying as population comes, we will maintain
that level of service, and those impact fees are almost individual
contracts that the homeowner has with the government to say those
levels of service are going to be maintained. That's what I moved
here for, and that's what I want -- that's what -- I want the government
to maintain that level of service moving forward.
Within impact fee studies for the Category B facilities,
population is a constant for each of them. What you'll notice, and I'll
get to at the last slide, your Transportation, your Stormwater, and
your Public Utilities utilize population, but it's not the only driver
within the system expansion. They'll get into the specifics of that for
their levels of service.
The dual rational nexus test that the Florida courts have
established justifies population is your first component, and the
second is the government must show how the rational nexus between
the expenditure of impact fee revenues and the benefits
occurring -- or benefit the new developments.
The second criteria is within that dual rational nexus test is that
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the impact fees that are collected, are they providing a specific
benefit to the individuals who are paying those? And we maintain
that by maintaining the levels of service, which is ultimately
expressed through an AUIR as well as the CIE.
As a -- in totality, the AUIR stands as a checkbook for the levels
of service adopted by the county and formalized through the
collection of impact fees engaged against the demands of new
population. So that's a long way of saying we make sure that growth
is paying for growth, that new users pay for the system expansions,
and that what brought you here, the levels of service of infrastructure
and services will be maintained moving forward.
An overview of today's workshop, each individual section will
cover, like I said, their adopted levels of service, how -- you know,
what -- the specifics of how they arrived upon that. The five- and
10-year list of projects needed to satisfy that levels of service, as you
saw within the January 28th AUIR highlights some of the current
deficit and surpluses, and also, like I said, mentioned the
development of that maintenance plan, which would be the last piece
of the total revenue associated with -- with the fiscal obligations
associated with growth.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on just one second.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you done?
MR. BOSI: Yeah. The last slide was just adopted levels of
service. So you could ask -- and I should have said you -- any
questions anytime, I'm free to take.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- I wanted to wait till
you were completed.
My number-one question is is there's an enormous amount of
data and information in here regarding our school district, which is an
absolute independent authority, independent impact fees, independent
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taxation, separately elected board. Now, they're -- there's no
argument that they have an enormous impact on our community from
an infrastructure standpoint both in drawing of services, level of
service on our road system, so on and so forth.
But my question, where are we -- why are we dealing with the
school district in this AUIR?
MR. BOSI: The school district is part of your Capital
Improvement Element. When we adopted the interlocal agreement
and we adopted the school -- the School Public Facilities Element of
your Growth Management Plan, we included the school district as
part of your Category A facilities. But you're right, the -- by the time
that you hear the AUIR in the fall, the school district would
have -- has already adopted their -- adopted their five-year capital
project in September. You hear it normally in December or January
of the following year.
So there's not -- there's not an obligation from the county to have
any revenue contribution related to their capital improvement
programming, but it is still a part of our Capital Improvement
Element, and that's why schools are included in the AUIR and CIE
because of the public school's facility element [sic] that was
appointed in around 2010/2011.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And is that interlocal
agreement still in effect?
MR. BOSI: The interlocal -- there's two interlocal agreements.
One was established in 2003. One was established in 2007.
That -- the 2007 interlocal agreement has expired. That deals with
how we review school projects. There's a basic understanding
between the school district and the Board of County -- or general
purpose county government that we still review plans to that -- to
those standards, to that existing -- or to the interlocal, but the time
frame has expired, and there could be benefits in terms of the staff
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eventually re-establishing that with the school district moving
forward to be able to address some issues related to school board
review and with the fact that charter schools have grown in
popularity, and they've also grown in terms of the stature [sic].
The state statutes now consider charter schools part of the public
school system. Because of that, we have an obligation to treat those
charter schools as public schools and, therefore, they benefit from the
same benefits that are contained within that interlocal agreement
related to the -- your traditional public schools.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's my -- it's my personal
opinion that we haven't given enough attention to the impact of our
school system on our asset base. I mean, it may be easily
accountable for refuge [sic] removal, water/sewer disposal, or water
and sewer and so on and so forth, but especially with regard to the
impact on our road systems.
The advent of the school choice that's coming about and the
money that's about to start following the students, I believe -- I mean,
there's a disparity right now between the state education system and
the revenue per child to the school district and to a charter school.
It's about $8,000 for a child at the charter school and 22,5- or
something for public school, but that's going to shift, this advent of
school choice. And as the money starts to follow the child, we're
going to see schools popping up in a lot of locations that -- we're
already seeing them coming now. Number one.
Number two, when we -- it's imperative that we do tighten up on
the interlocal agreement with -- that allows for us to have a say-so in
the impacts of the schools and their locations on our infrastructure
even with the existing schools that we currently have. It's nothing to
drive up and down any particular road on school let-out time, and
traffic's backed up out into our right-of-ways with parents trying to
get in to get their children, and that needs to be accounted for in some
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form or format, either larger properties to queue the parents in to get
them in or out, something -- something needs to be addressed there
definitely.
My second point -- now I'm off of schools. My second point is
this rationale about growth paying for growth, and that's the
accommodation of our impact fees in relationship to our population
and the level of service associated with Categories A and B.
How can we effectively manage that need based upon a
population if -- if what I'm led to believe is correct and that we've
been direly inadequate in the estimation of the upkeep and
maintenance of the existing facilities that we have? I was told seven
years ago when we established the 301 account that the
two-plus-billion dollars of assets of Collier County were -- were
being accounted for, were being entered into the system to
ascertain -- and I think I used a word that tripped up Commissioner
Hall, and I called it actuarial with regard to the useful life of our
two-plus-billion dollars in assets.
I don't want to -- we don't want to -- we don't want to stop doing
what we need to do based upon the statute with requisite to
population and so on, but it is -- it is imperative that we start
accounting for the capital asset replacement and ongoing
maintenance that we have. Every single one of us have issues within
our district of deficit funded capital projects and ongoing
maintenance.
Commissioner Saunders, when you and I came into office eight
years ago, there was a billion-dollars-plus -- a billion dollars of
deficit-funded capital projects and ongoing maintenance that wasn't
attained. It wasn't accounted for. It was on the front page of the
budget. I say it was -- it was in the budget. I'm one of the few that
reads the budget.
But we as a -- we as a system -- we as a government system
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need to account for those assets, their useful life, and the maintenance
associated with the useful life. We can't just collect $100 million in
impact fees and go build something and then not have a plan for how
we're going to pay for it either in the operational aspects or ongoing
maintenance.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We completely agree with that,
and building off of Mr. Dunnuck's presentation last week is the plan
to gather all of that information and then develop a plan not only for
what we already have but also for anything that we build that needs
to be part of when we come to you saying we're going to build,
whatever, a library. You need to understand the useful life and the
maintenance cycles that are attached to that facility.
We've done a better job with some of our in-ground
infrastructure, things like utilities and some aspects of transportation.
Stormwater, we're getting there. Obviously, you know, that's a huge
number looking at the backlog on stormwater maintenance, but we've
done not as good of a job when we look at our vertical construction,
our buildings.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm good for now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, when it comes to
the problems with our building maintenance and, basically, the repair
and maintenance of all of our facilities, what is the -- what is the
source of funding for that type of activity? You know, you've got
this building here that is in desperate need of either being torn down
or fixed. Most likely torn down and being replaced. But in terms of
maintenance, how do we pay for maintenance? What -- where do the
funds come from for maintenance?
MS. PATTERSON: Largely from the General Fund and 111.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So --
MS. PATTERSON: So property taxes and other general
revenue.
June 3, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So -- and I knew the answer to that
I just wanted to make sure that that was the case. So when we -- we
cut our millage rate, we are impacting the ability to maintain our
current facilities to some extent. The only alternative, once we do
that, is to move money from some other projects or something to do
that.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So you would -- it's a
prioritization exercise. So you could reprioritize programming or
something like that if the priority was to -- to maintain buildings. We
haven't given you a good sense of what it takes to maintain five
million square feet of aging buildings, so that's another issue.
But they're not -- short of developing another funding source,
like going out for another surtax, you don't have the flexibility in
these funding sources to use others. So without new revenue sources,
it falls back on the General Fund in 111, and if the sources there are
reduced, then obviously it reduces our ability to do everything.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, are you determining the
amount of shortfall we have at this point in time in our maintenance
activities?
MS. PATTERSON: So it's going to take a little bit of time to do
that. We do have the obvious things that had been addressed even as
part of the last surtax offering, some of the bigger
air-conditioning -- the chiller plant on campus, some of the bigger
roof structures, some of the work at the jail. But when we talk about
the five million square feet that we're responsible for, getting our
arms around that is part of a larger exercise. In that will include
Parks' buildings. So we understand maintenance of Parks' fields. I'll
go on a limb and say we know how to keep the grass, generally. But
those buildings all need to be taken care of as well. So when we do
this comprehensive look at everything that we have, it will include
the entire suite of buildings that we're responsible for maintaining.
June 3, 2025
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So, yes, we are attempting to get our arms around that. We
know -- what we know is very expensive, and it's -- the price tag is
just going to keep going up as you add more buildings in. We have a
lot of buildings that are -- you know, they're older.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Will we have some estimates
during our budget process?
MS. PATTERSON: We could give you representative costs, so
the cost to replace air-conditioning, the cost to replace roofs, and I
think that our Facilities folks would be able to make some general
statements about how old the building is, when it might need things
done to its air-conditioning or to its roofs or to other general
maintenance. We won't know specifically, for example, what needs
to be done to Eagle Lakes Community Park, because that will be part
of this inventorying.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I don't think we would need
to have specifics on different buildings and different facilities, but I
think just having some general idea of how much money is needed in
each of the next five years, for example, to maintain our facilities --
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- I think would be helpful for us.
MS. PATTERSON: And I think you'll be able to get at least a
picture of that, because obviously we have prioritized maintenance.
That's places where we know there are actually things wrong, so
that's going to tell you probably where we would go first. The
problem, too, is that when we go to do what we think our repairs,
were findings that things are way more aged than we anticipated, and
so that triggers a whole 'nother cycle of things.
But Mr. Dunnuck and Mr. DeLony will definitely be prepared to
talk about this more in the budget process. It's informed the way that
they've developed their budget this year and then their plan forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
June 3, 2025
Page 77
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And just one point.
And I'm not throwing any rocks. This isn't new. This subject has
been going on for quite some time. We established the 301 account,
what, seven years ago, the Capital Asset Replacement and
Maintenance Fund.
I was told that the actuaries, the determination of the useful life
of our assets, was being inputted into the system so that we could
define how much, Commissioner Saunders, out of our General Fund
revenues needed to be appropriated on an annual basis for ongoing
repairs and, ultimately, replacement of those assets when they reach
their useful life.
I've since learned that that wasn't necessarily all of the case. We
did it in some but not in all. And so I'm really happy to hear that
we're having these discussions. It's going to bode the discussion on
how we're -- how we're going to -- how we're going to go forward
and what we're prioritizing with regard to the expenditure of the
taxpayers' money as we move forward.
MR. BOSI: And just to finish up, this -- like I said, this was the
last slide. As you will notice, the first five individual categories
within your adopted levels of service, population is not the primary
factor. It's one of the factors that is established within the formula
that arrives upon their levels of service. But then from Parks to Jails
to Law Enforcement, Libraries, County Government, and EMS,
they're all population based, just to provide you just a little
distinction.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: On Emergency Medical Services, I
can't make any sense out of what that line item actually says. We
have a bunch of people that, perhaps, are involved in the Emergency
Medical Services and first responders that are in the audience. But
perhaps you could help me understand the 16,400 per population.
MR. BOSI: For every station, there's one -- it's 16,400 people.
June 3, 2025
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That's the level-of-service standard. One station represents 16,400.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: For each EMS station?
MR. BOSI: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: It's actually the 24-hour-a-day response
unit. So EMS has got a very strange situation with their level of
service. They're going to talk about it a little bit when they get up
here, but basically this represents the ambulance and some associated
space at a station, but essentially it's the -- it's the emergency
response unit.
There's a lot going on in EMS. This level of service is one that
we intend to -- I'm taking away a little of their presentation. This is
one we tend to -- or we're going to plan on making a recommendation
to reevaluate because this is actually just one of three levels of
service that are used in EMS. The second level of service, which
definitely needs to be updated, is a response-time level of service, but
it's delineated by an artificial urban rural boundary that really no
longer exists. So 12-minute response time in some areas; eight in
another.
And then lastly, there's a level of service that applies pertaining
to the impact fees, and this is a tricky situation in EMS because of the
collocated stations.
So as we move forward here with the evolution of the COPCN
and the potential for other transport agencies, we're really going to be
looking at the way that we place units. And so it's not so much that
we're going to build our way out of our situation with EMS but rather
the strategic placements of those units throughout the county as well
as looking at how the addition of other transport units will actually
help our system. It's actually -- it's pretty exciting, although that
sounds kind of nerdy of me to say that. But to look at this level of
service now, I think you're going to see big changes in this one in the
coming years to the positive.
June 3, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm not stealing any
thunder either, I think, but I've seen some emails flying around about
cooperative efforts with our independent fire districts and the
transport, and then the alignment of the protocols to allow for that to
transpire --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- which is an enhancement,
ultimately, to the care of our residents. That -- in my mind's eye, the
number one -- the number one level of service is the time associated
to get someone there to assist.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Period.
MS. PATTERSON: The operational level of service -- and it's
one that needs to be reviewed. We just have a level of service that
tells us how we need to provide units as -- as population grows. But
again, now with -- there's been questions over the years about -- with
ALS. Even non-transport ALS, how does that impact your response
times?
And now looking at, again, the dispersement of those units with
the fire district coming on to help is going to allow us to look at this
differently and really get units placed where they need to be versus
being tied to what's been sort of a station model. And again, us
building an EMS station and Fire building a fire station across the
street, those days are over.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We're going to need to,
in about 20 minutes, take a court reporter break if we're not finished.
Do you have anything else in terms of the presentation?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. We have the individual facilities to
come up. They each have a short number of slides. We can get
started on those. And we'll move along fairly quickly. The
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highlights of this, largely, other than what I just stole from EMS, is
going to be on some of the areas where there are shortfalls, where we
want to bring those to the Board's attention, as well as some of the
other levels of service that we will be working on here, upcoming
government buildings being one of those.
So let's go ahead and -- let's get started with stormwater, if we
can, if we've got them queued up. Might as well jump right into the
best topic of the day.
MS. SCOTT: Well, I hope it goes up from here. For the record,
Trinity Scott, your Transportation Management Services department
head.
I have a plethora of my team here with me today who may assist
with answering any questions you might have, but we're certainly
going to start with probably one of our biggest areas of needs of
infrastructure, not only capital, but also maintenance.
So our stormwater infrastructure's comprised of several miles of
major canals, many of which that are maintained by the county. We
do have a cooperative agreement with the Big Cypress Basin where
they do maintain a large portion as well. We have multiple water
control structures, lots of pipes, and many miles of roadside swales.
To get right into it, over the next five years, the blue on this bar
chart represents what our anticipated revenues are, and the orange are
our capital needs at this time.
So just dive down into that, in FY '26, we are anticipating over a
$64 million shortfall, and over the five years a $300 million shortfall
in projects that we know that we need to do.
This is a list of the projects just for FY '26. And I should note
that this is a little different than probably the backup documentation
that you have for the AUIR, because we did sync this up with what's
going to be coming to you for your budget next year. So the AUIR
document, we actually prepared this probably about a year ago now.
June 3, 2025
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So we wanted to sync those numbers up.
The very first thing that you'll note is a stormwater utility study,
a need for automation, which would provide some efficiency with
regard to our maintenance activities. Just to give a little bit about
automation, the Water Management District can essentially adjust
their stormwater management structures from their home if they had
to where, for us, for our facilities, Marshal -- Mr. Miller has to
actually send out crew members to make those modifications. We
can monitor some things from our office, but to actually make
modifications to where a weir level is, we have to send people out.
So being able to do that with technology would certainly help us long
term.
Many of the projects on this slide are what we call partnership
projects where we are working cooperatively with the local utility
providers to be efficient, try to disrupt our citizens only once and go
out there and tear up a road once and while they're replacing their
utilities, but we're also bringing that stormwater infrastructure up as
well.
Some of our maintenance challenges are we don't know what we
don't know. Much of our infrastructure is underground. Our
proactive, clean view and repair -- and repair. It's one thing to go out
and clean it and look at it, but we have to go back out and fix
what -- what we identify as well is essential.
We -- Ms. Patterson talked about and Mr. Bosi talked
about -- and I'm really dovetailing on a lot of things that Mr.
Dunnuck brought up last week when we were talking about multiple
assets degrading at the same time. You can definitely, when you're
looking at the age of our infrastructure, see that we built a lot; then
we didn't build some. Then we built a lot. So we have a lot of things
that are degrading all at once.
We bring on new assets; that means more maintenance needs.
June 3, 2025
Page 82
Vanderbilt Beach Road extension, that's a lot of stormwater
infrastructure now that we're underground infrastructure as well as
our Carson Road stormwater pond. All of these are necessary asset
adds, but they do require more maintenance needs.
So our stormwater funding, we -- our capital projects, they must
be synced with that local utility provider for efficiency and
coordination purposes. We're working with the Office of
Management and Budget strategizing on short-term funding needs for
FY '26 to get these projects moving, but we know that we need a
dedicated long-term funding source to address our new and aging
infrastructure. So we're going to have some further conversations as
we go into FY '26 of how we do that.
So that's the end of the stormwater. I see the -- don't hurt your
finger pushing that button, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I thought I said that. Did I -- yep.
I'll try it again. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
When are we going to have the discussion with the stormwater
utility?
MS. PATTERSON: We are making a request for funding for
the stormwater utility as part of the budget.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: And if your colleagues agree, then that will
set us down the path to hire a consultant to develop the methodology,
which we already have our thoughts about that and have talked to
outside counsel. But that will set us down the path to begin that
process.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So we have to do a study in
advance of the adoption or the presentation of that to come forward?
June 3, 2025
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MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're not going to do what
we did before, are we?
MS. PATTERSON: Well, I don't plan on it going the way that
the one went the last time, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay, good. Well -- and there
again, just to reiterate, we spent a half a million dollars on a
consultant to come tell us about a utility that was an absolute folly.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We're looking at, as discussed,
bringing in the fee at a basic level and holding it for a period of time
before we start to index it up. Two different thought processes on
whether we establish the fee for maintenance throughout the county
and then look at districts or basins to deal with the capital projects is
one offshoot of this that we can talk about more, because everybody
participates in the maintenance, but not everybody has capital
projects going on at the same time.
So there's a few different ways we can -- we can look at that, but
the first thing is to take the complexity out of it, but because it's a fee,
it still requires that study in order to do the whole nexus and all that
that's required for the special assessment. So we'll go through that
process, but not in the same way as before.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And that establishment
of that non-ad valorem assessment will then allow for -- assuming it
meets all of the tests and criterion, it will allow for a managed
bonding to be able to take care of some of the short-term needs that
we, in fact, have.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then we'll also be able to
assure our tax base that -- some assurance as to what those -- what
those ongoing expenses, in fact, are going to be.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
June 3, 2025
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: And it does make it a special assessment,
which is a below-the-line assessment and not -- it's not a
millage-driven.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MS. PATTERSON: So there's stability.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well -- and that was
what -- that was what caused a lot of issue before because it was a
millage-rate-driven portion of the existing millage rate that then got
managed differently based upon previous priorities and the
expenditure of the available funds.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We did have what I like to call
the semi-dedicated millage. It wasn't a voter-enacted millage, but it
was a semi-dedicated by resolution, and there was a change
made -- this is all pre-utility. A change was made to that resolution
where it was .15 mills equivalent to up to, and during the recession it
went to almost zero.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Thank you.
MS. SCOTT: Do you want me to continue forward and go onto
roads?
MS. PATTERSON: Well, you might as well. We'll just keep
Trinity up here, and she can go right into roads. I think we can do
that before Terri needs a break. You all are very familiar with
transportation. So she's going to quickly get to telling you how she
needs money.
MS. SCOTT: Hold onto your wallets.
Okay. So as Mr. Bosi discussed, our level of service is based
not by population but actually based on traffic counts and actual
usage of the roadway system. Our adopted level of service is a Level
June 3, 2025
Page 85
of Service E for our roadways that are already to a six-lane or their
maximum widening capability for what we do here.
Lots of folks, when I go out and talk with people, they want to
know, why don't you have a Level of Service A? Well, Level of
Service A would be inefficient use of our limited funds. We'd have
roads that didn't have folks on it for a majority of the day. So our
level of service is determined. We conduct traffic counts multiple
times throughout the year, and that, then, is analyzed based on the
actual capacity of the roadway.
Over the next five years, we plan to add about 45 additional lane
miles. And when I'm talking about level of service, on an annual
basis we are assessing the annual -- the level of service on about
1,400 lane miles of collector and arterial roadways. So for '26
through '30, we have 16 construction projects, which are multiple
bridges, 45 additional lane miles, including major intersection
improvements.
This bar graph's a little better. The green are our revenues, and
the red are our unfunded needs. You see a large amount in Fiscal
Year '28. We have several large projects in FY '28, many of which
are affiliated with Immokalee Road, and I'll get into some of those in
just a moment.
For FY '26, we have a total unfunded need of just under
$50 million. '27 is just about 28 million. That high number in '28,
260 million goes down in '29. And actually, in Fiscal Year '30 we
have a little bit of a surplus, so -- but overall --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Wait till she's done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I do have a question on some of
these shortfalls. So go back to that one where you had the big spike
in '28.
MS. SCOTT: Uh-huh.
June 3, 2025
Page 86
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why does that big spike in '28
disappear in '29? What is providing the funds?
MS. SCOTT: So those are unfunded. So in Fiscal Year '28, we
have a large unfunded need. So in '29 that goes down, and it's just
based on timing of projects, when projects are available. Projects
could slide out if we wanted to slide them out.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It going down in '29 is not a
reflection of the fact that we found funds for the --
MS. SCOTT: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- '28 shortfall?
MS. SCOTT: No, it's not. That is not a cumulative. That is
each individual year.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It could be cumulative.
MS. SCOTT: So overall, for the five years, we are in need of
$314 million at this time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's a lot better than the
stormwater.
MS. SCOTT: It's on par; same.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: About the same.
MS. SCOTT: Yeah, about the same.
So this is a breakdown of our funding opportunities that we
have, a large part of impact fees, gas tax, some General Fund, grants,
as well, but you see the large -- a large part of this pie is our
unfunded needs at 45 percent.
For projects that are in the outer years of the program, we will
certainly continue to work to try to obtain grants, but we're -- I would
be remiss in telling you that we could -- we could come up with
$300 million of grants. We could maybe make a small dent, but not a
huge one. More like a hail dent, not a -- you know...
So for our roadway needs for Fiscal Year '26, that $50 million is
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Page 87
Collier Boulevard. That's that widening through Golden Gate City,
that last four-to-six-lane section. Also, Everglades Boulevard
right-of-way, as well as beginning the construction of Vanderbilt
Beach Road Phase 2. And these are partial unfunded. Remember, I
have impact fees, and I have impact fee districts. So we're looking at
our collections. And I can't take impact fees from this area and spend
it over here unless it's a regional roadway. So these are partial
unfunded projects.
With regard to our pavement maintenance program, just getting
into those maintenance areas a little bit, we have a five-year
maintenance plan that we just recently developed. We're utilizing
new technology with regard to that. We have loaded all of the
information that we've gathered into the system, and we're using
some out-of-the-box degradation schedules.
Our plan is in three to five years, go back, utilizing similar
technology that we just used to be able to refine our algorithm as far
as our degradation schedules and be able to really continue to
develop that five-, 10-, and ultimately a 20-year paving schedule for
our roadways. So as of right now, we have some maintenance plans
in place, but we're -- we aim to further refine them as we move
forward.
Just to talk a little bit about sidewalk maintenance. We have
about 460 miles of sidewalk that we inspect annually. In 2024, the
Florida Department of Transportation modified their standards of
what was an allowable lift. So previously, we could have a three
quarter of an inch lift in a sidewalk, and FDOT changed those
guidelines down to a quarter of an inch. So that immediately created
a big backlog of maintenance items that we have. And we're working
through those, but we're working through those with contractors.
So once we get caught up, we're hopeful that we can stay caught
up, but remember, we're also always taking on new additional
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facilities as well.
I want to touch on signal maintenance just quickly. In the last
20 years, our signals, our preemption devices, our traffic counters
have increased by more than 30 percent as far as the number of
assets. But in that time frame, we've had the same number of people
who maintain those. That's seven people in the county who maintain
over 234 -- 237 signals.
And so, yes, we're doing an efficient job, but there's really that
balance of our maintenance needs and taking on those new facilities
as well. So you'll be hearing about that in an upcoming budget about
some expanded requests with regard to signal maintenance.
So our maintenance challenges are, once again, multiple assets
degrading at once due to clustered build times. Back in the early
2000s, we brought in Norman Feder to be me. Norman built a lot of
things. Well, now we're maintaining a lot of things that were built in
a very short period of time.
So those new assets mean more maintenance needs. Once again,
Vanderbilt Beach Road extension. Our TIGER project just
completed up. That's 20 miles of new sidewalk in the Immokalee
area, and while that's great for the Immokalee area and the folks who
are walking out there, it puts a tremendous strain now on our
maintenance folks, and we need to stay up on that, and now I have 20
new miles of sidewalk to inspect every year and repair as necessary.
We have increased contract costs without increase in service.
So for those services that we contract out, whether that's mowing or
concrete or pavement maintenance, those contract prices are going
up, but we're not getting a higher level of service for it. And
realistically speaking, our budgets have remained flat.
So when budgets remain flat but those contract prices go up, you
know, we're really -- you get squeezed in other areas then. So it's
certainly a very delicate balance that we weave through.
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So for our roadway funding, we anticipate reimposing our nine
cent local option fuel tax that's set to expire December 31st. We're
working with OMB to strategize on our short-term funding, and then
we'll be discussing further discussion in FY '26 for different funding
alternatives which could be a bonding of that gas tax similar to what
Commissioner McDaniel was speaking about for the stormwater
utility but really watching interest rates and all of that to see when the
right time to do that is.
That's it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. First off, when I was
reviewing this and this calculation of these needs based upon -- based
upon traffic counts, it was a rather -- it was -- it went all over the
place based upon the traffic management area expansion boundaries
and so on and so forth. It was very difficult to follow. And I
understand you do that just to keep us back on our heels so that you
know everything and we're confused.
MS. SCOTT: I wish I could forget some things, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And so is there a path to
make it more discernible to regular people?
MS. SCOTT: So what you're speaking about is we have certain
areas within the county that are called a Transportation Concurrency
Management Area. That -- that particular area was developed back in
the early 2000s where we knew that we would have areas where the
roadways would exceed the level of service, and we wouldn't be able
to have a plan for them because they were already six lanes, there
wasn't a parallel roadway opportunity, or there is a parallel roadway
opportunity, but it was really decided to look at the area overall.
So 90 percent of those roadway lane miles need to be at
acceptable levels of service, and that is kind of confusing when
someone looks at one specific roadway and they're saying, well, it's a
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Level of Service F. You shouldn't allow someone to build, et cetera.
When in reality, in those particular areas, we look at that in the
overall -- the overarching area, so that is a little bit more confusing to
look at.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and just reading the
considerations that are part of this presentation, the level-of-service
threshold volumes are calculated using arc plan and high plan
software. Measures -- measured volume is based upon the
250th highest hour, which essentially equates to the 100th highest
hour after committing February and -- after omitting February and
March data consistent with the Growth Management Plan.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. It says it right there.
MS. SCOTT: It does.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so my question is, is
there a path to get to a point where a regular guy can understand
what, in fact, is being analyzed here? Is there a path, and if there is,
I'd like to know what that is going forward.
MS. SCOTT: We can look at a path. Essentially, I'm going
to -- I'm going to get it down to laymen's terms. What we are looking
at is we want to look at the peak-hour directions in the afternoon, and
we want to look at them -- and that -- by the way, when you get to
that 250th highest hour or the 100th highest hour, that's what gets us
to that p.m. peak hour time frame.
And we want to pull out the seasonal fluctuation because we
don't want to build our roads for Easter Sunday. I've got to give
Norman Feder the credit for that. But we want to build our roads for
what is our typical day, not the influx of folks in January.
So there are some factoring that we have to do with those traffic
counts to be able to get to that 250th highest hour to get me to that
p.m. peak hour and then also to factor out those seasonal
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irregularities for us.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you've explained that to
me, and that's where -- you know, you were quite adept. I think way
before I became a commish, that you shared with me we can't build
our roads to a Level of Service A because there's no cost
effectiveness to that. It just -- it's astronomical to go to that level.
And -- but softening up this so that a regular guy can understand
it will really, really help as we're going forward, especially when
you're expressing needs for expansion and how you're going to go
where you're going to go. And I think utilizing not just a population
estimate and a trip count, but also -- you know, our CIGM, the
Collier Interactive Growth Model, has a very nice component within
it that talks about dispersal of populations and where they're at so
then we can -- we, the Board, can better prioritize where money
needs to be moved and spent in order to accommodate the necessary
traffic flow.
Mr. Bosi can sit there and talk all he wants about us moving
away from a bedroom community, but we are a bedroom community
for the foreseeable future, and we have to accommodate for that,
so -- and that's more of just a statement than anything.
MS. SCOTT: If I could talk a little bit about the County
Interactive Growth Model, because it's also the basis of the
long-range plan. So you, as Board members, are now going through
that with the Metropolitan Planning Organization process. That's the
basis of that model.
The Annual Update and Inventory Report that you're talking
about today really feeds that model as far as when you're looking at
your long-range plan what needs to be done sooner rather than later.
So it's really this cyclical process of the long-range plan feeds your
AUIR, but your AUIR really feeds the timing of that as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and in that regard,
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when I was looking at the other things that were within this report
with regard to expansion of roadways that are existent today, maybe
we need to start addressing some of those theoretical prioritizations
based upon the population dispersals that we, in fact, have. And I
don't want to -- we don't need to mention anything specifically here,
but I saw -- I saw where there were actual traffic reductions in a
certain area and weren't necessarily -- didn't necessarily correlate to
your future expansion or the needs analysis that I was seeing in here.
My last question, and then one statement. I know -- I know the
Chairman wants to go to lunch, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, in reference to that, I'm not
sure that we're going to break for lunch. How much longer do you
think this -- the presentations will take?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I don't think it's going to
take much longer, and certainly, if you have areas of focus that you
want us to come back after the court reporter break, we'll go straight
to those.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we finish with
Commissioner McDaniel's comments, Commissioner Hall, and then
we'll take a break.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just a quick question.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And two quick points. And
you mentioned earlier the management of impact fees and the
districts associated. Those districts aren't correlated to specific
County Commission districts. They are specified geographic bounds.
How can we help you better manage those monies to the benefit of
everyone with regard to the necessary expansion of roadways?
I know it's been done in the past. I know the money has been
moved from one place to another. Do we need to make definition
adjustments with regard to our roadway system so that there is a little
more latitude with -- with monies that are collected in one particular
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area and expensed in another?
MS. SCOTT: I see our County Manager leaning forward. I'm
going to throw this one to her.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: So there's -- there are provisions that apply
to the use of dollars in adjacent districts. So districts that touch each
other where a road benefits both, there has to be a finding of benefit.
So that's the simpler way.
The second way that the impact fees can be used across district
is in regional roads, so something like 951 that runs through multiple
impact fee districts and essentially benefits everybody. Impact fees
can be with -- also have to have a finding of benefit, but impact fees
can be used on a road like that.
There's currently no mechanism and probably no lawful way to
say, take impact fees that are generated in East Naples or Marco
Island and put them in Immokalee, because it breaks the nexus of
benefit to the fee payer.
The only other thing I could suggest and we can look at is that
the district boundaries haven't been studied in a very long time. It
might be beneficial to look at them. We have two impact fee districts
that actually there are not impact fees collected. One of those is way
to the east where there's actually quite a bit of growth happening;
Port of the Islands, places like that. And so it may be beneficial to
look at whether or not having eight impact fee districts is the
appropriate number and whether or not those district boundaries
are -- where they should be. So that would be a way to get at that
more flexibility, getting like with like.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But the adjustment of the
regional road system, I mean, you know, Everglades Boulevard starts
in Immokalee and goes clear into the Picayune. And so Vanderbilt
Beach Road starts at the beach and goes to -- ultimately, it goes to
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Everglades Boulevard.
MS. PATTERSON: Vanderbilt Beach Road is a regional road.
We can revisit -- as roads come onto the list for being widened or
extended, we can review them and add them as regional roads if they
meet the criteria.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Outstanding.
Last point, we're a lot better now at ascertaining our ongoing
maintenances and expenses that are associated with our new assets.
We talked about this with our aquatic centers, the newest one being
the Big Corkscrew Regional Park, and so on and so forth, in the
rating system.
Let's do that immediately with the TIGER grant program and
begin the assertation and allow for the -- because that's a
regional -- Immokalee already has an MSTU. They already have a
CRA. I know Christie Betancourt's going to be turning a flip when I
say this, but let's start to appropriate, from a budgetary standpoint, the
ongoing maintenance associated with these new sidewalks and swales
and streetlights and so ons and so forth to make sure that we're
properly accounting for and not burdening the balance of the
community, county, with regard to the maintenance aspect of those
things.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
Can you go back a couple of screens so I can use your younger
eyes. Right there. Is that -- when is that Livingston Road repaving
going to happen?
MS. SCOTT: Oh, you know, I didn't bring my readers up here.
Hold on. Let me look.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think the majority --
MS. SCOTT: FY '27.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- of it's going to be '27.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: '27/'28.
MS. SCOTT: Yep. FY '27 in the northern part, FY '28 in the
yellow part, FY '29 for the green, and FY '30 for the purple.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right. I just -- so it's FY '27 and '28
north of Pine Ridge for my District 2 peoples.
MS. SCOTT: For the record, Mr. DeLony worked for me today;
brought my readers.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Oh, thank you.
MS. SCOTT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So '27 and '28. Good, because that
road needs it.
And then go back a couple of more to where all of the projects
are, the map. I think you said we have 16 projects. Yeah, that one
there. So there's one, two, three, four, five, basically six in
North -- in Northwest Collier. Is that the Goodlette and the Airport
widening there in the middle?
MS. SCOTT: We have Goodlette, Airport, Vanderbilt, as well
as Veterans Memorial in your specific commission district as well as
the Immokalee/Livingston Road. The yellow part of this map is
actually your commission district.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right. And then the one down there
in the right bottom corner, that would be the Pine Ridge diverging
diamond?
MS. SCOTT: Correct, and the -- also the Pine Ridge at
Livingston improvement that is associated with the diverging
diamond.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Ms. Patterson, in terms
of concluding the workshop, about how much time do you think
we're going to need?
MS. PATTERSON: Fifteen, 20 minutes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Why don't we take a
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break until -- let's give the reporter a break until 12:30, then we'll
com e back and wrap up. Unless you want to take a long lunch
break, let's do that. Let's take a break until 12:30, and then we'll wrap
it up.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
(A brief recess was had from 12:12 p.m. to 12:30 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's proceed.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. So we're going to just kind of go
through these quickly.
So next up we'll talk briefly about library. I'm going to try to do
them from here. And if you have questions, we have people in the
back.
So libraries is a level of service -- they've actually had the
benefit of having a surplus in square footage for quite some time. We
did a big campaign of building libraries back in the mid 2000s. But
over time, they've been eating away at that surplus, and in the next
five or six years, we'll be reaching the place where we need to
contemplate -- even sooner than that contemplate what our
next -- where our next library will be located.
So -- but the good-news message on libraries is that we're
looking at, as we move to the east, which is the likely location for the
next library facility, on how we may be able to collocate. So we've
had a lot of discussions about community space and the benefits of
bringing various components of infrastructure together. So for the
purposes of libraries, our next move will look like how we could
collocate a community center with a library or some other
government function so that we get the benefit of the space but also
that benefit of collocation.
So unless you have other questions about libraries, this is one
we'll be discussing in more detail as we move into the planning
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phases for libraries.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, you're lit up,
but I assume that's from the last one.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm not. That was prior to this.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. We also -- I'll mention before we
move off of libraries, we're also looking at some sharing of space
between our museums and our libraries. We feel like that that would
really attract visitors to these locations in a different way and to the
benefit of the community to be able to see exhibits and different
things and some of the space that we have available in our library
system.
All right. So, Troy, let's go to government buildings. It's, like,
the third from the bottom.
The level of service for government buildings is currently 1.7
square feet per capita; however, we'll be evaluating this square
footage as part of the facilities master planning effort. This level of
service has changed a couple of times in the past and was originally
established based on the government buildings impact fee study that
established the government buildings impact fee back in 2005
or -- yeah, 2005.
So -- need to look at that, but as Mr. Dunnuck had described,
we're also getting our arms around our space who is where and what
we actually have in this five million square feet of space. So
government buildings will be one that we'll be focusing on. This also
is a focus area for ongoing maintenance -- you saw the presentation
last Tuesday -- to look at how we're maintaining these buildings and
how we may look at what we do in the future. That would include
things like this campus. Unique to government buildings is our
requirement to house the constitutional officers, so that will be part of
what we look at here.
So that's essentially the summary of government buildings. If
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you have questions about that level of service, this is one, again, that
we'll be working on over the upcoming years as part of the master
planning efforts, and we'll evaluate the appropriateness of this level
of service as part of that effort.
Okay. Very good. Let's -- oh, wow. You got it, EMS. All
right. We do have our folks in the back from EMS if they -- if you
have specific questions for them. We've already had a discussion
about our thought process on this. So this one unit per 16,400
population, very old level of service.
We are showing in this five-years the need for additional units.
That's something that you-all know. This has been one of the
lingering deficiencies as part of the AUIR; however, we have
Station 74, which is currently under construction. We have an
agreement with North Collier to collocate up on old -- near Old 41.
We have an agreement with Greater Naples to collocate down on the
East Trail, so we're moving along there. We also are getting to the
place now where we're staffed enough to be able to bring units up.
So that's a positive message for the first time in several years relative
to EMS and our ability to put these units up.
If you can go to the next one. We'll be evaluating, as I
discussed, that response time because of this artificial line between
the -- it's essentially 951, which is the divide between the urban and
the rural response times. We know that does not represent the true
boundaries now of what is the urban area.
And you can -- go back one slide, Troy.
This just represents, you can see, the increase in call volumes.
So this is something we'll contemplate as we start to evaluate where
we put units up. So you can see year to date we're more than 37,000
medical calls for EMS.
Next slide. Zone 72, this is an area that we're paying really
careful attention to. This is down along 951 sort of near Beck
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Boulevard in that area. We know that this is -- there's a need here.
These ambulances in this area and surrounding area are being called
in from all different areas, putting strain when we have to move the
ambulances around.
So we have been discussing the possibility of placing a unit at a
fire station down in this area that does not currently have an
ambulance. Now, what challenges us for this is that these stations
were built years ago, and they are not -- they don't have a lot of extra
space. So while we may have the ambulance and the people to do it,
we have to figure out how we would actually be able to house that
ambulance and those folks. So these are ongoing conversations with
our partners in the fire districts.
Next slide, Troy. Next slide.
I know it looked like a rain map, but it's actually a heat map to
show the calls. This chart -- and we bring this to your attention
simply because calls for service on I-75 for 2024, they have a lot of
calls for service. We will be coming to you probably at some point to
discuss the possibility of placing a medic unit at Station 63. Station
63 is the station that was built by the State of Florida on Alligator
Alley that helps respond up and down Alligator Alley to medical
emergencies, fires, vehicle accidents.
It has traditionally housed an engine, and we do have medics
that respond out with that engine, on the engine, but it appears
that -- best for public safety that we may want to consider placing an
ambulance at Station 63. Probably to all of you that seems intuitive
that you would want an ambulance the closest to where you have the
most critical accidents. Right now what happens is they respond out
and an ambulance is dispatched, but they may be coming from 45
minutes away.
So that is something that we are very interested in and will be
pursuing with Greater Naples.
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you.
On Station 67 [sic], have we gotten the long-term financing
operational expenses taken care of with the state? Because I know
it's been back and forth, and there was a two-year agreement and then
a five-year agreement. Has that been sorted out yet?
MS. PATTERSON: My understanding is that that is still in
works. That we got a -- we had a short-term solution, but we're still
working on the longer-term solution. That's Greater Naples that
actually is in the partnership with the State of Florida. But I have to
think that -- obviously, we don't -- that service can't go away. And, in
fact, we need enhanced service in that location. So we'll assist
Greater Naples, should they need our assistance, but we will be
working with them to work out how we may be able to provide a
medical -- a medical unit there.
Now, if Greater Naples elects to move forward with transport,
which is not on the table immediately, then there would be the
possibility to pull that unit back out of Station 63 and allow the
transport to be done by Greater Naples. So all those details could be
worked out in the form of an agreement or an MO between the
county and Greater Naples to outline the responsibilities.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good. And you blew through
three or four slides before I -- before the chairman noticed that I was
lit up. I had a question --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- two slides back. Right in
there, I think. Maybe this is ant -- it has to do with the -- and maybe
it's the heat map associated. You were talking about calls down in
the 951 corridor. In that area, there are several ALF, assisted living
facilities, there. Has there ever been any kind of discussion about a
requisite of a nursing home or assisted living facility to have their
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own transport unit that stays there to predominantly service their
clientele?
MS. PATTERSON: I will look to the back of the room to see if
any of my EMS folks know anything about that. I know that there
have been conversations with the nursing homes about calls and lift
assists with the fire districts, but as far as them having a required
transport, not to my knowledge.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, you know,
there's an aggregation of people of age who are more requisite for
medical transport, and then -- in other areas of our community, and it
was just -- it was a thought that I had that might -- may be something
we ought to look into.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. And I think as we get our feet
under us and our staffing levels improve, we do want to continue to
look at how we're using our ALS transport units versus what you may
call BLS. So not that they don't need to be transported, but are
we -- you know, how we're using our resources. And this would be
another conversation with the fire districts about what that transport
looks like, because someone might need to go to the hospital, but
they're not having a heart attack. Now, they need to go, but they
don't need to go with, you know, two paramedics and lights and
sirens.
So looking at that and having those conversations certainly is
appropriate, as well as some of the protocols being utilized by these
assisted living facilities and nursing homes and how they're using the
911 system is an area that we could definitely have some
improvement.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I was a little surprised that 72 Beck Boulevard didn't have an
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EMS unit there --
MS. PATTERSON: No.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- all these years --
MS. PATTERSON: I know.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- being so adjacent to I-75 and
the response time we have out there.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I'm not sure 62, how that fits
in, but wouldn't that -- by having a unit at 72, it would probably
alleviate some of that, you know, distance covered on I-75 for
response time.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So 72 could run the Alley instead
of having to put a unit at 63. Probably ideally, with the density of
development in that area up and down 951, having both would be the
long-term goal. But getting relief any way that we can in this area,
even if it means that we get a temporary accommodation at 72 from
Greater Naples -- because they're growing too -- until we figure out
what a permanent solution would be. But this is an area of high focus
right now.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Back to the ambulance at 63,
like you said, you know, we're going to pursue that. And if we failed,
you know, like you said, an ambulance might take 45 minutes to get
there.
So what's the long pole in the tent? It would seem like that
would be an obvious thing. And is it that we don't have the
resources? We don't have the -- you know, we have one ambulance,
and it's needed in five different locations? Like you said, that's a high
accident concentration. It would seem like that would be, you know,
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one of our top priorities.
And I realize, you know, we don't have a magic wand or pixie
dust or anything, but, you know, when I hear, like, "Oh, you
know" -- I'm not being sarcastic to your words. But when, you know,
the thought is, "Yeah, we're going to try to pursue that," it would
seem like, wow, we should be pursuing it with our hair on fire
because, I mean, there's some -- when there is some sort of an
accident out there, it is so tragic. And, you know, what a -- you
know, what a tragic ending if we hear, "Well, you know, the
ambulance got there as fast as they can, but it was driving through 5
o'clock traffic, and it was coming from 45 minutes away, and it took
an hour and 20 minutes to get there."
I mean, that station just seems like it's in such a strategic spot
that, you know, as a minimum, having an ambulance there to be able
to respond. Is there something that we're missing, or it's just a matter
of assets, need, you know, that sort of thing?
I mean, because I will tell you -- and this might be going down a
rabbit hole -- the same citizens that are listening to this and we're
trying to figure out how we're going to, you know, play poker with a
handful of ambulances and, you know, hopefully, one won't have to
come from 45 minutes away, they just heard at our meeting -- the last
commissioner meeting how we want to raise tourist tax 1 percent so
we can build more ball fields. It's apples and chairs in reality, but to
the average citizen who doesn't follow this stuff as closely as we do,
that's what you find in the newspaper and on social media and on
emails back to us.
Wow, they can't figure out how to get ambulances, but boy,
they'll build those softball fields. And that's so unfair because
it's -- like I said, it's different pots of money, but the reality is -- you
know, getting back to this ambulance, I hope it's not lost on anyone
what a critical need that is on a stretch of highway that, you know,
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when they have an accident, it's not a small fender-bender. It's bad.
MS. PATTERSON: I'm glad you said that. When I said we
were going to try, I was being polite. It's my intention that we're
going to have an ambulance at 63 --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Great.
MS. PATTERSON: -- but it's all about managing the
relationships. So we'll pursue this. I wanted to have this on your
radar so you understand that this is -- in case you hear from various
places what's going on, our intention is to put an ambulance at 63.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: We'll pursue that with full speed.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. PATTERSON: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Hair on fire.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. If there's no further questions on
EMS, I saw the Sheriff come in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I said, "I've had my hair on fire." I
don't recommend it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Too soon?
MS. PATTERSON: We're going to -- so as the Sheriff gets their
PowerPoint up, I just wanted to let you know we -- I'm not going to
bring Public Utilities up today. Their intention was to just give an
update on NESA, which is the northeast expansion. We can do that
as part of another agenda item. So the Sheriff will be the last and
most exciting AUIR topic that we cover, especially because this level
of service is so weird, but we'll talk about that a little bit.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Just the guy presenting.
MR. WILLIAMS: That's it. Good afternoon, Chairman. For
the record, Sean Williams, Central Service director for the Collier
County Sheriff's Office.
We have two areas for you. I'm not sure they're going to be as
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exciting as the County Manager explained, but we'll give it a go.
First will be jail and corrections facilities. We currently have
two of those, the Naples Jail Center and the Immokalee Jail Center.
Our current level of service is 2.79 beds per thousand population.
Based on that level of service, we have 1,304 beds today. Based on
the required inventory in the AUIR, there's 1,473 beds required in the
AUIR.
Our population, as we reported, is -- averaged 758 for the fiscal
year of '23, and that's still consistent with what we're seeing today.
What we are seeing a change, though, is instead of higher
numbers of inmates, we are seeing the needs change of the type of
inmates we have, which are mental health and medical needs within
the jail facilities.
The AUIR is projecting a growth need out in the Immokalee Jail
Center in 2030/2031 to increase the capacity of beds; that's what we
talked on in the first slide. But as I mentioned, our needs are
changing. Substance abuse and mental health needs for the inmates
are growing, so our narrative in the AUIR talks about the needs to
renovate part of the Naples Jail Center to cover that need, and we've
discussed that with staff, and that's been part of our AUIR submission
for several years now.
On the five-year capital projections, nothing new in the five
years other than what we talked about. Level of -- existing level of
service accounts for about a negative, am I correct, $14 million. Ten
year, you're going to have a negative, about $5.9 million.
And then, again, the maintenance costs. I think that's to be
determined by Mr. DeLony's group.
MS. PATTERSON: Before we move on from this, just so that
no one feels very concerned about the deficiency that's projected in
the AUIR, some of the facilities that we develop as part of the AUIR,
you will find that for a period of time we'll run a deficiency, because
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you don't build a jail for 10 or even 100 beds at a time. So there will
be a period of time while we evaluate any expansion or where these
beds might go where you're going to see us run this deficiency for a
little while because then you'll bring on beds -- and we won't bring on
exactly what we need, but you bring on beds in advance of the need.
So the second piece of this is the 2.79 beds per thousand
population, again, as an older level of service. So with the help of the
Sheriff and as we move through some of these master plans, we'll
evaluate that level of service and make sure that it's accommodating
the need, or if we need to further define that level of service because
of the changing nature of the inmate population, we can make some
of those adjustments as we can look at that and we look to expand
and -- or renovate.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Hi, Sean.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, in the public safety
meetings, subcommittee meetings, I've had an opportunity -- Chief
Roberts, we sat down, and we've talked a lot about -- and I see you
kind of touched the -- especially the females' mental health.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: How we kind of have a makeshift
one in there right now.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's basically taking a unit, and
we kind of make-shifted it and welded safety things in place for their
care and custody.
MR. WILLIAMS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I think renovating a portion
of the jail that we can make designated to that particular service, and
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that would free that -- that unit back up for general population at
some point. I mean, if we can do that or get some funding way to get
to that point, then that would -- you know, artificially, it would
increase a little bit of general -- general bed space, and then they
would have a designated unit that was actually safe for them to be in.
MR. WILLIAMS: That is correct. And that's our desire. That's
why I referred to it as a mental health and medical piece.
That's -- we're hoping to accomplish both. So mental health folks
that have to stay in our care and can't go outside as well as those
females that are -- need to be housed in a little bit better facility
within the -- within the Naples Jail Center.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just wanted my
colleagues to hear that, you know, these are some of the things we've
been talking about --
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- that -- I think that will help.
You know, it's not going to fix it, but at least it will move in the right
direction if we --
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Sean.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And one of
you -- either you, Sean, or County Manager, can
maybe -- because -- explain to me the level-of-service component of
this presentation. Because I've had continuing conversations with our
Sheriff with regard to our overall jail population where we're at with
capacities and so on. And I -- and I just want to -- I would like to
have somebody repeat when was the last time we touched the
level-of-service requisite for the 2.79 per population, or whatever that
is.
MS. PATTERSON: There may have been minor adjustments
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over the years. There was a period of time in the mid 2000s when a
lot of these level of services got married up with the impact fee levels
of service which turned out to be an inappropriate thing to do simply
because the methodology used to develop the impact fee does create
some shifting of the level of service.
An adopted level of service for the AUIR purposes and for
planning purposes is a fixed level of service, so -- and it's supposed to
represent what is -- what this board determines is in the best interest
of the community. So it's not something that gets adjusted every
single year; otherwise, it takes away the meaning of a level of
service. However, the original establishment of this level of service
probably goes -- probably back in time all the way maybe to the early
2000s or late '90s.
We have attempted to look at it and get our arms around it, but I
think that is something that we need to do now again in the changing
face of this inmate population.
There are not a lot of choices on how you would dedicate a level
of service for a planning purpose other than tying it to population.
It's a question, really, of the appropriateness of the 2.79 beds per
thousand population, and where that came from, it may have been
established simply based on what we had at the time, and then it just
became a level of service that rolled forward from there.
The only cautionary tale, of course, is that we have utilized this
level of service in part to collect money, impact fees, predicated on a
level of service.
So drastic changes to levels of service just -- we would proceed
with caution because we wouldn't want the community to have relied
on us providing one thing and then we turn around and provide
another. So there has to be -- in order to reduce the levels of service
or make changes, there has to be a certain amount of rationale that
goes into it. And so that's something that, you know, we've discussed
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and should embark upon as part of our overall master planning to be
sure that we understand what that looks like on a going-forward
basis.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I agree. And I think the
definition of a population can help with that. We've seen a shift. I
remember when I first became a commissioner, our Sheriff gave me a
ride. I was over in Immokalee at a parade, and he gave me a ride
from one end of town to the other. And he said out loud -- he said,
"Our largest mental institution in Collier County is our jail," and
close to 30 percent of the population suffer from some form of mental
illness or substance abuse.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So -- and that was the
beginning of -- I say "the beginning," but that was when there was a
larger emphasis put on training for our officers to better recognize
mental issues, substance abuse, and that sort of thing at apprehension.
And so we have shifted a lot of those -- I said "shifted" -- diverted a
lot of those customers, if you will, over to David Lawrence Center
and other facilities to better -- hopefully better manage their care.
So I think it's important that we have a look at that with our
adjustment, because you're showing deficits of beds/jail space based
upon a population that's inevitably going to grow, and that may
be -- that may be a nexus or a rationale for us to adjust that LOS to be
able to better accommodate our population.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. WILLIAMS: Law enforcement facilities, we have 13
identified in the AUIR. The level of service is just over .9 per capita.
We've identified five within the AUIR that we feel are currently in
need of today.
The five-year plan includes the forensics facility, which is
currently under construction, funded out of surtax.
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Next is District 1 is -- shown in the AUIR is in 2028/2029, and
then your District 5 facility would be shown in '29 and '30. District 1
would be North Naples; District 5 would be that corridor of 951 and
41.
Again, all of those that are identified are the forensics facility,
District 1; a training facilities District 5 substation; and then an
Estates substation, or an additional one out there for the growth that's
going to take place out there in the future.
I covered the forensic facility's being funded now under surtax.
The District 1 is within that five-year. Revenue needed to maintain
the level of service is 4.3 million, it looks like. Ten year capital
projects, District 5 is in that 10-year plan. Estimated cost about
2.1 million.
Additional facilities: Mental health, training, Estates. Still don't
have costs for those yet because we haven't really done a deep dive
into those yet, and the maintenance costs for those are to be
determined.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. I have one more slide if there's no
questions so far.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll let you know if anybody lights
up here.
MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. In 2019, we commissioned Metro
Forecasting. This is going a little bit beyond the AUIR, but I thought
it was relevant because it pertains to our facilities. We commissioned
Metro to do a full-scale study for our agency, not only facilities, but
everything else. In 2024, we brought them back to focus just on
facilities, and his plan identifies about $65 million for facilities that
are identified in the plan at the end of 2024, including the ones I
mentioned today and a couple of others, and that's just for
construction, not land surveying or any -- some of the other features,
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but that touches on many of the facilities that we need. So I just
wanted to mention that we have done some form of planning with a
professional out there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. WILLIAMS: And we provided that to the staff as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any questions or
comments from the Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, thank you.
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Board members, I did say that this would
be the last facility, but I forgot our friends from Parks. So if you'd
like, they have a couple of short slides, and that will -- that will be
really the last facility to come up. I think it's an important one, with
everything that we're dealing with with Parks and Recreation, that we
just take you through their level of service. This is one that's often
misunderstood. And we'll provide some clarity on that and talk a
little bit about maintenance.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. HANRAHAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. James
Hanrahan, interim division director for Parks and Recreation.
I have my department head, Jamie, and one of our division
directors, Jaime, as well to help, as well as Mike Bosi.
For the level of service, Mike mentioned it earlier, for
community parks, 1.2 acres per 1,000, and that focuses on
neighborhood recreation, local sports green spaces. That supports
that sense of local community and local activities. For the regional
parks, 2.7 acres per 1,000 population. That is more of that broader
recreational opportunities, local sports tournaments, as well as
cultural attractions. So that serves a wider population. That's where
you're looking at not only your local residents but people from
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outside of the area coming in to view our parks, whether it's the
beaches, the marinas, or our regional parks like Paradise Coast Sports
Complex, North Collier, and Big Corkscrew.
For the community park acreage, we will have a deficit
approaching in the fiscal year of '26/'27. We are going to work with
the County Manager's Office to explore strategic options for
addressing that challenge.
Some of the options we have that we're looking into, the -- you
all approved the purchase of the Williams property. So, you know,
up to 200 acres could be intended for parks. We will look at that and
assess how that will look for parks. Also, with the Rural Lands
Stewardship Area and the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District, we have
coordinated and worked with them where parks is a part of their plan.
So as they -- like, Big Town of Cypress, as they continue to
move forward with their development, we will have conversations
with them as far as how it looks for potential parks, whether we own
them, whether they own them and build them, but we'll work together
to discuss the needs of the community as well as the needs of those
townships.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Quick.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, just a quick question.
Back up a slide, if you would, please. There.
When you're talking about these deficits, you're talking -- and
then you say in the next slide that you're negotiating with regard to
the RLSA and the RFMUD. There are requisites of open space,
green space, park facilities to be within these new rural villages and
ultimate towns, and that's not accommodated in these -- in these
acreages, or are you only talking about the acreages that are
county-owned?
MR. HANRAHAN: Correct, correct.
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MS. PATTERSON: County-owned.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Say that again.
MS. PATTERSON: It's only county-owned.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only county-owned.
MS. PATTERSON: However, similar to Ave Maria, they
approach their park system one way -- which they fully built their
park system and manage it. Some of these other towns and villages
have expressed an interest in partnering with the county where they
may dedicate the land to us. They may build the amenity but
ultimately turn it over to the county to run.
So there's a lot of different options in the way that we can do
this, but it only is dealing with what will be county assets, not
counting the green space that they're required to have or anything
that's a requirement of their development.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So this purported deficit
doesn't include park systems that are within these new rural towns
and villages, necessarily?
MS. PATTERSON: Correct. So Ave Maria's parks are not
included in that -- in that -- in that acreage count. Any private parks
are not included in the community park acreage. The parks in the
City of Naples and the City of Marco Island are not included because
this is an unincorporated county fee only.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. FRENCH: And only to offer some further clarification,
again, for the record, I'm Jamie French, the other Jamie, your
department head for Growth Management and Community
Development.
This number would be in flex. So we won't know until they
come in with plat and plan and further development order to identify
how they're going to designate lands to meet that commitment that
they've made to this board for providing parks for that area. So that
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number may, in fact, change.
And so as James had indicated, as we've looked at new
properties that you have purchased, we recognize the Williams
property has a -- has an intention for parks use. We just don't know if
that would fit into your community profile or a regional profile, being
based on population, location to other parks. But we are fully aware
of that and will continue to plan that going forward.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Would it not be prudent for us
to be accounting for specified park requisites within these new rural
towns and villages, whether they're in the RLSA or the RFMUD?
I know we really can't account for them in the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District because we haven't had -- we haven't had a
village come through yet, necessarily, to -- that would -- that would
specify that, so -- but we have several rural villages in the RLSA and
a new town.
MR. FRENCH: We could -- in future AUIR presentations, yes,
sir, we could put on there what the commitment has been made by
these development organizations or landowners on what that
obligation might look like for better planning in the future for your
long-range planning of parks.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think it would be prudent
because, I mean -- you know, my involvement in the RLSA since its
infancy stages has accommodated for -- for specific issues such as
recreational facilities that are availed to the entire community, not
just the development.
So I think it would be prudent for us to not be simplifying a
statement of we're not including anything else that's outside the realm
of our own, and then staring at a deficit that's coming up here in '27.
MS. PATTERSON: We had a similar -- where's Mr. Bosi?
MR. BOSI: Right here.
MS. PATTERSON: We did a similar exercise to this with the
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Planning Commission and the Productivity Committee back a long
time ago about the acknowledgement of other recreational
opportunities, so state and federal parks and other amenities that are
provided within gated communities as an acknowledgment of
balancing the availability of parks.
So again, there are certain reasons why they can and can't be
counted as a level of service, but they can definitely be identified and
noted for the Board's visibility and understanding of how they play
into the overall park system. So kind of different purposes but can
get you to the same place.
MR. FRENCH: And -- I'm sorry, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I'm looking at this slide we have up right now, and this is kind of
like taking an overall, like, just our population in the county from the
census count or whatever we think it is, and you're putting a number,
just a basic number on saying it required acreages. But like yourself,
you're talking about 200 acres way, way northeast somewhere in
Immokalee that I would have a hard time calling that a regional park.
That would be a community park.
And at 200 acres, that means Immokalee would have to have a
population of 166,000 people. So that kind of like -- how do you
break it down to say, all right, how much of a park do we actually
need in Immokalee as a community park? How many acres do we
need for that particular segment of the county? Because I know
nobody from my district's going to ride to Immokalee to use the park.
So you're -- but you're including that in just a flat number here as
population.
So how do you, you know, figure out exactly what would be the
footprint for Immokalee?
MS. PATTERSON: So, typically, you're absolutely right, a
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200-acre park exceeds the size of most of our community parks,
lending itself in size as a regional park; however, what also draws a
regional park is the -- is the -- location and the ability to draw large
populations or amenities.
So each of those is evaluated to determine whether or not it
meets sort of the criteria to be a regional park, and to your point, the
location of this one is something that would be considered in the
evaluation of whether it would truly be regional.
However, we also sometimes have these hybrid parks where you
may have community factors and regional, so it may mean that we
hold some of this land off to be -- have some regional components in
the future if there were tournament type ball fields developed where
people may travel there, but the bulk -- you know, another -- half the
property would be developed as a community park.
And so it's location, then it's the -- we have maps that show kind
of the radius that people travel for community parks versus regional
parks. So all of those things would be considered when we
ultimately decide where this acreage lands and what amenities will be
developed on that -- on that acreage.
So for example, beaches, they're only one place, and they're all
regional, many of our beach park facilities, and we've got a couple of
other different ones. Sugden is a regional park because the water
feature is the draw, and it's a regional draw. It occurs only there.
Then our facilities that have the draw is their tournament-quality
fields like the North Collier Regional Park.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But that location itself, if you're
pinpointing on a map to say, all right, this is what we feel the region
is, and we take a circle, you're servicing part of Lee County. I mean,
you know --
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- in reality, because it's not
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going to come down to just dropping a teardrop into Collier. You
would take a map and say, hey, this is -- you can't have a region
divided by that border --
MS. PATTERSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- but it would almost be
servicing people in Lee County with taxpayer money in Collier
County.
MS. PATTERSON: Right. Proximity-wise, it would be
developed as a community park, and it would likely way reduce the
acreage dedicated. How it would become a regional park would be if
there was a regional -- again, a regional amenity draw. So if there
were tournament fields, things like that, so people are specifically
traveling to the destination for the destination, and that's kind of the
thing that we're going to have to go through when we look to develop
this property. I think the test for the community park is pretty easy,
but not 200 acres worth.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
MR. FRENCH: And to the County Manager's point,
Commissioner Kowal, we do actually have qualifications both
for -- much like we looked at with the Hunden study where they
looked at the 25-mile range. It's a minimum of 10-mile reach on
these type of parks that are considered these regional attractor type
parks.
And we recognize -- and also to your point, we also recognize
the impact that North Collier Regional Park makes on our Lee
County neighbors that utilize that park often with the -- with
how -- the ease of travel along Livingston Road.
So certainly these are all within our calculations, but really to
emphasize this, we did not consider anything that was not currently in
your ownership. So these properties that are brought in through the
RLSA or through the RFMUD, until those actually come into your
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ownership, we did not consider that within these numbers. So that's
why I'm saying that number is kind of in flux. Once those come on,
we know -- and that will -- that will be addressed in your regional
parks plan that you'll see in the upcoming future.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Anything else from your
end?
MS. PATTERSON: If you could just -- the last thing, if you
could just advance to the slide, you have the one that shows
your -- whoop, back one maybe. There you go.
The areas of continued need countywide are additional
designated sports fields, as we've discussed, for community league
and amateur organizations. So I just want to make sure that we're
articulating that need that we have intense play on our fields
throughout the county, and we continue to look at ways to expand the
ability for people to get onto sports fields.
We're having an issue now because we're having to rest our
grass fields, so these are all things that we're taking into consideration
as we plan out the completion of parks like Big Corkscrew Island
Regional Park or like the Paradise Coast Sports Complex as well as
the development of future parks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Troy, anybody registered to speak?
MR. MILLER: Yeah. We do have one registered speaker, Nick
Lichter.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good afternoon.
MR. LICHTER: Good afternoon. You caught me by surprise.
Chairman Saunders, my name's Nick Lichter. I'm a Collier
County resident for 41 years this summer. And when I saw today's
workshop agenda, I made a commitment to come and speak just to
share another 249 seconds.
I haven't addressed the body in a -- this body in quite a long
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time, but when I saw David Lawrence Center's name today and the
central receiving facility, it reminds me of my experience with them.
In the Naples Jail Center here, they have that project called
Project Recovery for guys like me suffering from PTSD, depression,
substance abuse disorders. And we talked about some statistics -- at
least I heard them today, and I just want to reiterate them real quick
that while we have 23 percent of adults in America suffering from
some kind of mental illness, in the jail it's 40 to 60 percent. It's kind
of a big range, but that's what's out there, and 15 to 20 percent of
us -- I'll include myself in that group -- suffering from severe mental
illnesses.
I adjusted my number today. I thought it was 800. We have 758
inmates in the Naples Jail Center. So at least 300 and up to 500 of
them are mentally ill individuals.
Fortunately, we have DLC in our jail, and they're live-saving
staff with Project Recovery, the 90-day treatment program in the jail,
but they can only accommodate 30 men, and I think it's also 30
women, which obviously is less than 10 percent of the jail's
population.
But they're doing great work. They're helping inmates with
mental disorders with recovery management plans, life skill plans,
relapse prevention plans, educating them on trauma. I didn't even
know I was suffering from PTSD until I talked to one of the
therapists about trauma. Uncovered a lot of stuff there about my
challenges.
I think that we can and should do more than 30 men and 30
women, and it sounds like we're trying to do that. Project Recovery
saved my life, gave me hope, and it really opened my eyes and
reconnected me to my higher power who's working powerfully in my
life to heal me and to help restore relationships, not just with friends,
but with my family and particularly my beautiful children, who I
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think most of you have seen and seen me with.
So thank you for the opportunity to stand before you and to
share a little bit about my story and my hope that we'll expand that
program. I appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask -- Nick.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nick?
MR. LICHTER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can you come back, please.
Would you just share a little bit more? I don't want to go long -- too
awfully much longer, but if you would just talk about -- a little bit
more about the project help and your thoughts with regard to it within
our jail system.
I made -- I made a comment earlier, I think before you arrived,
that there was little to no rehabilitation that comes with incarceration,
and that was probably an unfair statement, but I just would -- if you
would, please, expand a little bit.
MR. LICHTER: Right. So -- and I've done a fair amount of
reading. You know, things like prebooking, what could we do to
grab guys like me before we book them and put them in jail and
training officers to recognize guys with mental problems, and gals.
But right away, in the first week, you get an idea of what you're
going to be doing for the next 90 days. You know, the proponents of
the world-renowned 12 steps, right. So you had to write a first step
and look at the damage that you've done and how unmanageable your
life has become, my life had become, because of decisions I had
made and things that I had not known I needed treatment for, to be
honest.
So then sharing your life story, right. I had to just lay it all out
there and talk about what it was like, you know, where I was, what
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happened, you know, and now I can talk a little bit about what it's
like now.
So -- and so there are three milestones: that first step, the life
story, and then the recovery management plan and relapse prevention
plan.
And I still refer to that stuff, you know. It's guiding me and
keeping me accountable. And I still -- I see people at David
Lawrence Center regularly and a bunch of angels over there.
So, you know, you're going through some political stuff here
with who's going to be running some things. But for me, David
Lawrence Center and the staff there are saving the guys' and gals'
lives 30 at a time every 90 days. And it was nothing I've ever
experienced before. And no person, no thing has ever been able to
help me like they've besides my creator. So thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. Good to see you
up and about.
MR. LICHTER: Roger. All right. See ya.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Anything else?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. Thank you. We appreciate you-all
taking the time to look at these facilities and let us report out on
where we are and what our plans are going ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Anything else from any of
the commissioners?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me just emphasize, on David
Lawrence Center, obviously next Tuesday's going to be a
controversial day in discussion. If you have specific issues, it would
be helpful if we know what those are in advance so we can at least
understand what the issues are and perhaps be prepared to discuss
them.
June 3, 2025
Page 122
With that, we are adjourned.
*****
June 3, 2025
Page 123
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 1:16 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
____________________________
These minutes approved by the Board on ______________________,
as presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.