BCC Minutes 06/10/2025 RJune 10, 2025
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida - June 10, 2025
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Burt L. Saunders
Dan Kowal
Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Trinity Scott, Transportation Management Services
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Derek Johnssen, Clerk's Office
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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June 10, 2025
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
June 10, 2025
9:00 AM
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3; – Chair
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; – Vice
Chair Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1;
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2;
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5;
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIR.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS. SPEAKERS
ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED
BY THE CHAIR. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A CONSENT ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL OF THE DAY’S
CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
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June 10, 2025
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA, AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC PETITIONS
ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM TIME OF
TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIR. SHOULD THE
PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A FUTURE
AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIR. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIR’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380.
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June 10, 2025
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's Regular, Consent, and Summary agenda as amended
(ex-parte disclosure provided by Commission members for Consent agenda.)
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation recognizing the Delta Alpha Epsilon Zeta Chapter of Zeta Phi
Beta Sorority, Inc. To be accepted by Debora Pollock, Z-HOPE (Zetas
Helping Other People Excel) Coordinator.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation of the Collier County Business of the Quarter for June 2025 to
NAMI Collier County. The award will be accepted by representatives of
NAMI Collier County and the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
A. Appeal by the Board of County Commissioners of Hearing Examiner
Decision 2025-02, which denied an insubstantial change to Ordinance No.
18-49, the Seed to Table Commercial Planned Unit Development, to remove
the gate control system at the Piper Boulevard access to the parking lot. The
subject PUD is 6.82 acres located at the northwest corner of the intersection
of Immokalee Road and Livingston Road in Section 24, Township 48 South,
Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida. (PL20250003142)
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
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June 10, 2025
A. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance amending the Collier County Land
Development Code to implement housing initiatives in the Growth
Management Plan relating to housing that is affordable. [PL20210001291]
(First of two hearings)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. This item is to be heard at 10:30 AM
This item was continued from the May 27, 2025, BCC Meeting.
Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners review and
consider for approval and execution: 1) a Fourth Amendment to Vacant
Land Contract with David Lawrence Mental Health Center, Inc., to modify
the Collier County Standard Form Long-Term Lease and include an
Operating Agreement exhibit governing Behavioral Health Center
operations; and 2) an Amendment to the Naming Rights Agreement to
clarify use of funds acquired with naming rights. (Ed Finn, Deputy County
Manager)
B. Recommendation to accept a presentation from consulting firm Mission
Critical Partners related to upgrade strategies for the P25 800 MHz Public
Safety Radio System. (Nathaniel Hinkle, Manager - Telecommunications)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
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June 10, 2025
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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16. Consent Agenda - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT & COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
DEPARTMENT
1) This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
approve for recording the plat of Del Webb Naples Parcels 500-505
(Application Number PL20230014890), approval of the standard form
Construction and Maintenance Agreement, and approval of the
performance security in the amount of $4,437,831.20.
2) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water and sewer facilities and appurtenant utility easement for
Tree Farm Commercial, PL20250000995.
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
water utility facilities for Roadies at Founders Square,
PL20250002581.
4) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the sewer utilities
facilities and accept the conveyance of the sewer facilities for Minniti
Residence, PL20250000739.
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the sewer utility
facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the sewer utility
facilities for 6100 Trail Blvd. Sewer Connection, PL20240000367.
6) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
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June 10, 2025
private roadway and drainage improvements and acceptance of the
plat dedications for the final plat of Greyhawk at the Golf Club of the
Everglades Phase 4, Application Number PL20180002724, and
authorize the release of the maintenance security in the amount of
$370,496.51.
7) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a
Performance Bond in the amount of $10,000, which was posted as a
development guarantee for an Early Work Authorization (EWA) for
work associated with Creative Commons, PL20230011142.
8) Recommendation to approve a Budget Amendment in the I-75 and
Collier Boulevard (951) Innovation Zone Fund (1031) reallocating
Reserve Funding for the First Amendment to the Contribution
Agreement with Uline Corporation c/o City Gate Naples LLC (Uline)
in the amount of $557,874.90.
9) Recommendation to approve the release of a code enforcement lien
with an accrued value of $60,900 for a reduced payment of
$18,842.60 in the code enforcement action titled Board of County
Commissioners vs. Dahinet Varona, in Special Magistrate Case No.
CENA20220009117, relating to property located at 171 14th St. SE,
Collier County, Florida.
10) Recommendation to accept the Conservation Collier Annual Report,
Program Manual, and to solicit acquisition proposals and applications
from the public.
11) Recommendation to approve an Easement to Florida Power & Light
Company for relocation of an existing transformer to accommodate
the parking lot modifications at the Pelican Bay Community Park at
764 Vanderbilt Beach Road, Naples, Florida 34108.
12) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign a
one-year extension to the Memorandum of Understanding between the
Collier County Board of County Commissioners and the Early
Learning Coalition of Southwest Florida Inc., to provide local match
funding for $75,000 in Fiscal Year 2026.
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June 10, 2025
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve the selection committee’s ranking and
authorize staff to begin contract negotiations with DRMP, Inc., related
to Request for Professional Services (“RPS”) No. 24-8286, “Design
Services for Immokalee Road and Livingston Road Flyover,” so staff
can bring a proposed agreement back for the Board’s consideration at
a future meeting.
2) Recommendation to approve a payment of $21,335.00 to Temple Inc.,
for materials that were lost in a package shipped via FedEx.
3) Recommendation to approve First Amendments to the Agreements for
Sale and Purchase for the acquisition of one (1) unit from Joseph D.
Stewart, P.A., and fourteen (14) units from Bigi & Bigi, LLC, within
the Court Plaza III building located at 2671 Airport-Pulling Road
South, to extend the Inspection Period to September 23, 2025, and the
closing deadlines to November 22, 2025, or within thirty days of the
County’s receipt of all closing documents, whichever is later.
4) Recommendation to award Invitation to Bid No. 25-8343, “Roadway
Striping,” to McShea Contracting, LLC, and authorize the Chairman
to sign the attached Agreement.
5) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign a
Small County Outreach Program (SCOP) State-Funded Grant
Agreement with the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT)
reimbursing Collier County up to $985,275.00 to construct paved
shoulders and widen travel lanes on Immokalee Road (CR 846) from
west of Bridge No. 034832 to east of Bridge No. 034832; to execute a
Resolution memorializing the Board’s action; and authorize all
necessary Budget Amendments, FPN 454028-1-54- (Fund 1841,
Project 60253)
6) Recommendation to approve Amendment No. 1 to the LPA0268
Agreement with the State of Florida Department of Environmental
Protection Standard Grant Agreement for the Collier County Golden
Gate City Water Resource Protection/Restoration Master Plan to
extend the grant expiration date to March 31, 2027. (Project #33842)
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7) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the donation of a
drainage easement (Parcel 124DE) required for the Everglades City
Drainage Project. Estimated Fiscal Impact: $100.
8) Recommendation to approve a Budget Amendment to recognize the
recovery of Collier County funds totaling $47,885.86, related to
insurance claims involving a damaged Collier Area Transit bus
shelter.
9) Recommendation to approve a Resolution and authorize the County
Manager to execute the State FY2025/26 Transportation
Disadvantaged Trip & Equipment Grant Agreement and any ancillary
documents with the Florida Commission for the Transportation
Disadvantaged in the amount of $740,173 with a local match of
$82,241, to continue operation, and authorize the necessary Budget
Amendments.
10) Recommendation to recognize FY 2025/26 Transportation
Disadvantaged Planning Grant funding in the amount of $31,757 to
the Collier Metropolitan Planning Organization from the Commission
for the Transportation Disadvantaged and to authorize the necessary
Budget Amendment. (Fund 1841, Project 33944)
11) Recommendation to appropriate the Collier Metropolitan Planning
Organization’s annual operating budget for FY 2025/26 and authorize
the necessary Budget Amendment in the amount of $1,178,086,
effective July 1, 2025. (Fund 1841, Project 33908)
12) Recommendation to approve the award of Invitation to Bid (“ITB”)
No. 23-8154, “County Barn Rd Pathways (LAP),” to RJ Engineering
Construction Corporation in the amount of $3,023,344.44, approve
Owner’s Allowance of $200,000, and authorize the Chairman to sign
the attached Construction Services Agreement and approve the
Budget Amendment.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, as the ex
officio Governing Board of the Collier County Water-Sewer District,
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June 10, 2025
award Invitation to Bid No. 24-8321 to Douglas N. Higgins, Inc., in
the amount of $3,417,868. (Project number 70234) for the Foxfire
Supplemental Wells project, approve an Owner’s Allowance of
$282,000, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreement.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Authorize the Chairman to sign Amendment Two to the Florida
Department of Elder Affairs (DOEA) Agreement #XF305 to extend
the period of performance for the Golden Gate Senior Center
Expansion and Hardening project. (Fund 1835 Housing Grant, Fund
1839 Public Service Grant, Fund 1806 General Funds, and Fund 3001
County-Wide Capital Project)
2) Recommendation to accept a grant donation from the Eileen and Cono
Fusco Fund through the Fidelity Charitable Donor-Advised Fund
grant program in the amount of $100, for general support of the
Collier County Library and authorize the necessary Budget
Amendment. (Public Services Grant Fund 1839)
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign the
First Amendment for revisions to Community Development Block
Grant Subrecipient Agreement #CD23- 03 between Collier County
and Renaissance Hall Senior Living, LLLP, in the amount of
$329,706.00 for preconstruction costs associated with Phase II senior
rental housing. (Housing Grants Fund 1835)
4) Recommendation to accept Round 2 funding from the Local
Government Cybersecurity Grant Program, administered by the
Florida Department of Management Services, to support cybersecurity
applications and upgrades for the Collier County Information
Technology (IT) Division. Request authorization for the County
Manager or their designee to execute all necessary documents to
accept the award, in an estimated amount of $285,440.00.
E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
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June 10, 2025
1) Recommendation to award Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No. 24-8289,
“Pelican Bay Decorative Street Sign Fabrication & Installation
Services,” to Project Combo, Inc., d/b/a Lykins Signtek, Inc., and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreement.
2) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2024-25 Adopted Budget. (The Budget
Amendments in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and
approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
3) Recommendation to approve a report covering Budget Amendments
impacting reserves up to and including $25,000.
4) Recommendation to approve the First Amendment to the Lease
Agreement with Aversana at Hammock Bay Condominium
Association, Inc., authorizing Collier County to continue the operation
of public safety communication equipment previously installed at
1060 Borghese Lane, Naples, Florida 34114.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners serve as
the local coordinating unit of government for the Florida Department
of Law Enforcement’s Federal Fiscal Year 2024 Edward Byrne
Memorial, Justice Assistance Grant (JAG) Countywide Program and
(1) authorize the Chairman to execute the Certification of
Participation and sign the Letter of Support; (2) designate the Sheriff
as the official applicant and the Sheriff’s office staff as grant financial
and program managers; (3) authorize the acceptance of the grant if
and when awarded; and (4) approve associated Budget Amendments
and approve the Collier County Sheriff’s Office to receive and expend
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June 10, 2025
the grant funds.
2) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners provide
approval for the State of Florida E911 Board/E911 State Grant
Program and for the Chairman to sign the grant application and MOU
addendum.
3) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements in the amount of
$37,291,986.74 were drawn for the periods between May 15, 2025
and May 28, 2025 pursuant to Florida Statute 136.06.
4) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of June 4,
2025.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to approve a $26,222.89 settlement with Roberts
Drilling, Inc., for damages caused to a 12-inch water main near the
intersection of Mainsail Drive and Collier Bouleard, in County Court
Case No. 23-CC-2693; and authorize the Chairman to execute a
standard form release.
2) This item will be on the July 8, 2025, BCC Meeting Agenda
This item was previously continued from the May 13, 2025, BCC
Meeting. Recommendation to provide direction to advertise an
Ordinance establishing the Clam Bay Advisory Committee to provide
recommendations to the Board on matters affecting the entire Clam
Bay estuary system.
3) Recommendation to approve a Retention Agreement for Legal
Services with Jackson Lewis P.C. for specialized Cyber Security and
Data Privacy legal services on an as- needed basis.
4) Recommendation to appoint Leyanis Muniz to the Library Advisory
Board.
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June 10, 2025
5) Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to file a lawsuit on
behalf of the Collier County Board of County Commissioners against
Noah Allen Wayson in the County Court of the Twentieth Judicial
Circuit in and for Collier County, Florida, to recover damages for the
repair of Collier County property totaling $5,062.05, plus costs of
litigation.
6) Recommendation to approve a Stipulated Final Judgment in the
amount of $95,000 plus $20,604 in statutory attorney and experts’
fees and costs for the taking of Parcel 1341FEE required for the
Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension Project No. 60249.
7) Recommendation to advertise an amendment to the Innovation Zone
Ordinance to remove any cap on the trust fund, allow the Board to
transfer funds held by Innovation Trust Funds back to the contributing
funds, upon a finding that the amount held in the fund is greater than
the anticipated need of the Innovation Zone, and extend the Ave
Maria Innovation Zone for another 10 years.
L. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
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17. Summary Agenda - This section is for advertised public hearings and must
meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from staff; 2)
Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County Planning
Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present and voting;
3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the Collier
County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the Board, prior
to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items are scheduled to
be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in opposition to the
item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all participants must
be sworn in.
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18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD’S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER’S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
June 10, 2025
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MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.
Welcome to the meeting of the Board of County
Commissioners.
We have a couple very special guests this morning to get us
started off right. We have Pastor Greg Ball who will -- from Destiny
Church who will lead us in the invocation, and following the
invocation, we have Sergeant First Class Lawrence Thomas Rice,
Palmetto Ridge ROTC, one of the Bears. He's going to lead us in the
Pledge.
So, gentlemen, thank you.
Item #1A
INVOCATION BY PASTOR GREG BALL, DESTINY CHURCH
AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE BY SERGEANT 1ST CLASS
LAWRENCE THOMAS RICE – INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE GIVEN
PASTOR BALL: Thank you. Could everyone please stand.
Lord, your word teaches us in Thessalonians that in everything
we give thanks. I am so blessed and honored to be a part of this
meeting today to open this meeting with prayer. We ask that you
would give our leaders wisdom. Lord, we thank you for the County
Commissioners and what a blessing it is to have them serving in our
county.
And Solomon asked -- was asked of God what could he do for
him, and Solomon asked God, give him an understanding heart. And
today, Lord, I ask that you would give understanding hearts to the
commissioners, Lord, and that they would lead with integrity and
lead with wisdom.
June 10, 2025
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And I bless them today, and I bless this meeting. Lord, your
word says in Proverbs 4:7 that wisdom is the principal thing. So I
ask, God, that you would give wisdom in the meeting today and let
the atmosphere of the room be one of peace and love, and we thank
you for that.
In the name of Jesus we pray. Amen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sergeant Rice, come on up to
the -- up here and -- that's fine. And just lead us in the Pledge, and
then you're welcome to --
LAWRENCE RICE: Please place your hand over your heart.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And if you'd like to go to the
podium there and tell us a little bit about what your plans are when
you finish your high school education.
LAWRENCE RICE: Hello. My name is Lawrence Thomas
Rice. And when I get out of high school, I want to be in the Marines,
a marine officer. And after I'm done with Marines, I want to go
work. Pretty much it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's enough.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: One step at a time.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you for being here, and we
look forward to your service in the military and beyond. Again,
thank you.
And thank you, Mr. -- I forget what rank you were.
MR. RICE: I'm a junior vice commander of the VFW771.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I want to thank you for
being here with your son and your -- the other kids you have here
with you.
MR. RICE: I have all of them. Thank you, gentlemen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
June 10, 2025
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Ms. Patterson.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT, AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX-PART DISCLOSURE
PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT
AGENDA.) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, agenda for June 10th,
2025. First we have Item 11B. This is our time-certain item to be
heard at 1 p.m. It's a recommendation to accept a presentation from
consulting firm Michigan Critical Partners related to an -- upgrade
strategies for the P25 800 megahertz public safety radio system.
Next is Item 16K2 being requested to move to Item 11C. This
item was previously noted to be continued to the July 8th, 2025, BCC
meeting. This is a recommendation to provide direction to advertise
an ordinance establishing the Clam Bay Advisory Committee to
provide recommendations to the Board on matters affecting the entire
Clam Bay estuary system. This is being moved at Commissioner
McDaniel's request.
We have add-on Item 15C1, which is a discussion to consider
the repeal of the Collier County burn ban on outdoor burning and
incendiary devices.
And we do have another time-certain item, Item 11A, to be
heard at 10:30 a.m., which is consideration of the fourth amendment
to the land contract and naming rights agreement with David
Lawrence Mental Health Center, Incorporated, for behavioral health
center operations and funding use.
June 10, 2025
Page 5
We do have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and 2:50.
With that, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, any changes or
disclosures?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no changes, and I have no
disclosures on the consent agenda, or ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
I have no changes and no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have no changes nor any ex
parte, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same for me; no changes, no
ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have no changes and no ex parte
as well.
MS. PATTERSON: If we could get a motion to accept the
agenda as amended.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second to accept the agenda as amended. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
June 10, 2025
Page 6
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
June 10, 2025
Item 11B to be heard at 1:00 PM: Recommendation to accept a presentation from consulting firm Mission
Critical Partners related to upgrade strategies for the P25 800 MHz Public Safety Radio System. (Stafi's Request)
Item 16K2 moved to 11C: This item will be on the July 8, 2025, BCC Meeting Agenda
*** This item was previously continued from the May 13, 2025, BCC Meeting. * * *
Recommendation to provide direction to advertise an Ordinance establishing the Clam Bay Advisory Committee to
provide recommendations to the Board on matters affecting the entire Clam Bay estuary system. (Commissioner
McDaniel's Request)
Add -on Item 15C1: Discussion to consider the repeal of the Collier County ban on outdoor burning and
incendiary devices. (Staff s Request)
Notes:
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 11A to be heard at 10:30 AM: Consideration of the fourth amendment to the Land Contract and Naming
Rights Agreement with David Lawrence Mental Health Center, Inc., for Behavioral Health Center Operations and
Funding Use.
Item 11B to be heard at 1:00 PM: Mission Critical Partners presentation related to upgrade strategies for the P25
800 MHz Public Safety Radio System.
6/9/2025 4:16 P]i
June 10, 2025
Page 7
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE DELTA ALPHA
EPSILON ZETA CHAPTER OF ZETA PHI BETA SORORITY,
INC. TO BE ACCEPTED BY DEBORA POLLOCK, Z-HOPE
(ZETAS HELPING OTHER PEOPLE EXCEL) COORDINATOR.
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - ADOPTED
We'll move on to proclamations.
MS. PATTERSON: Proclamations.
Item 4A is a proclamation recognizing the Delta Alpha Epsilon
Zeta Chapter of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. To be accepted by
Debora Pollack, ZHOPE, Zetas Helping Other People Excel,
coordinator. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. POLLACK: Good morning to everyone. I'd like to just say
a brief little something about our organization, zeta Phi Beta. Zeta
was founded in 1920 at Howard University, and Delta Alpha Epsilon
Zeta Chapter was chartered here in Collier County in 2021. Since
that time, we have been partnering with the Naples -- Naples Shelter
for Abused Women and Children; the March of Dimes, where we
came in as the number three and four leader in collections for the
Southwest Florida. We've also been partnering with our adopted
school, Herbert Cambridge Elementary, and we have been working
with the homeless people and feeding the hungry.
And one of our big initiatives right now is Good Health Wins,
which was developed by the National Council of Negro Women.
And basically, what the purpose of the program is is to advocate for
people to find out about vaccinations and get them so they can be
protected from the COVID, the flu, or whatever illnesses are
June 10, 2025
Page 8
spreadable. And so we go out and we advocate for that. We share
the information.
We also, this weekend, will be having our inaugural finer en
blanc gala, which is kind of like dinner en blanc in France but will be
endorsed, and the purpose of it is to raise funds so that we can carry
out our initiatives through the next sorority year. At that time we will
also be presenting scholarships to college-bound high school seniors
from Collier County, as we have done for the past three years.
We are a small group, but we are a mighty group, and our motto
is "service is what we do."
Thank you very much for having us and for this great
proclamation.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Thank you for all you
do for the community.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a motion to
accept the proclamation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have a motion?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So moved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and second. All
in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
June 10, 2025
Page 9
Again, thank you.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE QUARTER FOR JUNE 2025 TO NAMI COLLIER COUNTY.
THE AWARD WILL BE ACCEPTED BY REPRESENTATIVES
OF NAMI COLLIER COUNTY AND THE GREATER NAPLES
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE - PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5A is a presentation of the Collier
County Business of the Quarter for June 2025 to NAMI Collier
County. The award will be accepted by representatives of NAMI
Collier County and the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. HATCH: Good morning, everyone.
On behalf of our NAMI Collier family, we truly thank you for
this recognition, on behalf of you all and the Naples Chamber.
NAMI Collier serves from toddlers all the way to our seniors and
veterans, and all of our no-cost, no-waiting-list services are really
truly making a difference day to day in the lives of our community.
So our motto is "small enough to care but big enough to make a
difference," and you are all part of that. So thank you so much for all
of your support. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you for all that you do. And
obviously, today may be a very big day for mental health for Collier
County. So I assume you're going to stick around for a while.
MS. HATCH: We sure will. Thank you. Thank you. We
appreciate your support. Thank you.
(Applause.)
June 10, 2025
Page 10
Item #5B
ARTIST OF THE MONTH – MUSEUM DIVISION, “JUST
BEACHY, OUR MOST ENDURING ATTRACTION”
MS. PATTERSON: If I could turn your attention to the back of
the room for the Artist of the Month. June's exhibit of the month is
presented by the museum division as is entitled "Just beachy, our
most enduring attraction."
A vacation on Naples Beach was once a rustic lifestyle choice.
It is now a more sophisticated one. As the area's culture has changed
and the skyline has evolved, one thing remains true: The beaches are
still a place where sea and sand come together to enchant visitors
young and old. These panels offer a journey through the hourglass of
time, a journey in sand.
Please enjoy a bit of beachy history courtesy of the Collier
County Museums.
With that, we move on to Item 7, public comments.
MR. MILLER: Good morning. We have seven registered
speakers under Item 7. I'm going to remind the speakers to please
queue up at both podiums. You'll have three minutes. You'll hear
one beep at 30 seconds remaining on your time.
Our first speaker is Timothy Maloney. He will be followed by
William Mares.
MR. MALONEY: Good morning. Timothy Maloney, for the
record.
I came in this morning to call on my commissioners and county
staff to put an end to the misery and the nightmare that we're
experiencing and do the right thing, uphold your codes, ordinances,
and maybe even adhere to the language in your Rural Golden Gate
Estates growth master plan limiting illegal commercial activity.
June 10, 2025
Page 11
It's been a long haul. It's been going on for a long time. And I
think our journey, my neighbors and myself, I think it's testament to
how this whole thing got out of hand. It's been a year. We've had no
results. You guys have the power to do something about this.
And there's been no consideration all the way -- all the way
through this for the homeowners. It's been strictly twisting and
contorting these illegal commercial activities trying to make them fit
in our neighborhoods, trying to make them legal. And there's -- it
seems to me there's some -- there's got to be some agenda. I don't
know if it's going to expose some other interests or going to expose,
you know, more problems in the Estates.
But we've got 171 square miles in the Estates. If this -- if this
activity continues, congratulations, you've just -- you've just made the
largest industrial park in the state of Florida, and that's why we need
to get a handle on this now, and that's what I'm asking.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MALONEY: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is William Mares. He will be
followed by Jay Kohlhagen.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I was going to -- if you
don't mind, I just want to let Mr. Mares speak. It's the same topic.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then we'll get into the
resolution of it.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Mares.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm sorry, William.
MR. MARES: William Mares. Thank your time -- for the
commissioners.
I'm a 25-year resident of the "E" Estates, Golden Gate Estates,
just half a block off of 951 and Pine Ridge.
June 10, 2025
Page 12
So what I wanted to just do today on my three minutes is talk
about the Golden Gate Estates Master Plan, 2019. And in there -- I
want to read one paragraph. It's Policy No. 1.4.2. It says, "The
county's Code Enforcement Board shall strictly enforce the land
development and other applicable codes and laws to control the
illegal storage of machinery, vehicles, and junk," comma, "and the
illegal operation of commercial activities within the Golden Gate
Estates."
So Tim and I -- I mean, we know the intent of that is, because
right now in Golden Gate Estates, there's no regulation on parking of
commercial vehicles. There's no regulation on commercial activities
in the Golden Gate Estates. And so that's one of the reasons back in
2019 why that was embedded in there is to give Tim and I some
protection, residents, for legal operations that's happening, like, right
next to our door where a person's running five to 10 to 15 commercial
landscape trucks out of there.
So on May the 22nd, Tim and I met with the County Manager,
the assistant County Manager and the attorney for Collier County,
during that meeting -- all we wanted to talk about was this Golden
Gate Master Plan because it addresses commercial activity.
And during that meeting, we confirmed that, as an example,
landscape companies, they can move into Golden Gate Estates. They
can purchase two acres, three acres, they can park their rigs, they can
run a commercial operation out of there unabated. But they
still -- you know, they still fall under the violation of this policy
where you can't have illegal activities, commercial activities.
So I guess what I'm -- what Tim and I are asking is that -- and it
used to be enforced. It used to be enforced, and over, I don't know,
the last year or so, it's just fallen off the radar, and it hasn't been
enforced. So that's what we're asking. Can we get the code
department to enforce that code? And it can be done today, because
June 10, 2025
Page 13
right now if we wait until the home-based business and parking of
commercial vehicles gets embedded into Collier County for "E"
Estates, I mean, it could be a year before we happen.
So what we're asking is can we take care of these commercial
activities. Even Ray Bellows, on July the 18th, we had a
determination on this fellow that lives next to us.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Mares, your time is up.
MR. MARES: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And if I may, just -- and
I know it is -- you're all done, William, thank you.
MR. MARES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I know we don't
regularly have interaction with folks in this portion of our meeting,
but I wanted -- I wanted the community to hear the efforts that are, in
fact, ongoing and then ask some questions with regard to our senior
staff, if I may, about the enforcement activities and so on.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. I had asked Mr. Mares and
Mr. Maloney to come here this morning --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Perfect.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- so that all five of us could hear
what was going on and so staff could respond. I also recognize that
we don't generally do that, but it seemed to be a pretty critical issue
and one that, over a long period of time, hasn't been resolved, and I
thought this would be the most effective way to do it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agreed. You and I have been
dealing with for many years, sir, so...
Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
And just to let you know, this item will -- the topic that we're
discussing here will be in front of you at a later date as a future Land
June 10, 2025
Page 14
Development Code amendment. It's currently going through the
process. It's currently scheduled to go with DSAC subcommittee,
and then it has a full DSAC, and then it has the Planning
Commission. Both of those bodies will make recommendations, and
then finally we present it to the Board of County Commissioners for
either approval or denial related to the manner in which you can park
commercial vehicles in the Estates and as well as home-based
businesses.
One of the things that has complicated the matter -- and just to
let you know that there -- Mr. Iandimarino is actively working the
code case that the gentlemen were referring to, so that is in -- that is
in the process with the code enforcement.
But one of the things that I wanted to point out is one of the
conflicts is is the state statute. The state statute has stepped over and
has influenced how we can apply our local codes in terms of
home-based businesses. And because of that, we've been working
with the county's attorney's office to provide a clearer path for our
staff. For our Code Enforcement staff, for our permit issuing staff
related to who provide for the home occupations, what does and what
does not qualify. That's been a -- that's been a process that's been
ongoing, and that will be culminated with the LDC amendment that's
going to -- because not only are we going to have the commercial
vehicle restrictions, but how home businesses are to be regulated
within the Estates, and that's something we currently do not have a
clear path on, like I said, because the statutes has complicated and has
provided for over -- overreach as to what we currently have on the
books.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so with regard to that, my
understanding is is the preemptive statute that is out there has
timelines for additional restrictions that can be implemented within
June 10, 2025
Page 15
our LDC within our Growth Management Plan; is that correct?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And what is that timeline
extended to now; do you recall?
MR. BOSI: I mean, not a timeline. What it says is you can
regulate where commercial vehicles are parked. The --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Maybe you misinterpreted my
question. The preemptive statute that prohibits us from adding any
additional restrictions --
MR. BOSI: Oh, oh. Yes, I understand. That has been extended
to October 1st of 2027.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And then -- and so
now my next question is for our County Attorney with regard to, if
you will, a deliberate action or an action that would be necessarily in
conflict with that statute. How would that circumstance be
mitigated?
MR. KLATZKOW: I would not bring forward an ordinance
that was in conflict with the state statute. That said, the state statute
leaves us little holes to fill that we can fill.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And the efforts for
filling those holes are ongoing?
MR. BOSI: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And do you have a timeline?
Because I've been speaking -- as Commissioner Saunders has, I've
been speaking with Mr. Maloney and Bill for a while. Maybe too
long for Maloney. But when are the -- when are the adjustments to
the LDC and GMP coming to us?
MR. BOSI: As I've said, they have a date with the
subcommittee --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Which subcommittee?
DSAC?
June 10, 2025
Page 16
MR. BOSI: DSAC subcommittee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: DSAC, okay.
MR. BOSI: And Planning Commission is expected to be in
October. So I would say November or December for the Board of
County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very good.
Now, can I ask Jamie to come up? Mr. French. Jamie French.
With regard to the specific circumstances that are transpiring
next to these gentlemen's home, where are we at with that code
enforcement transaction, for lack of a better term?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. So, for the record, my name's Jamie
French. I'm your department head for Growth Management and
Community Development.
Mr. Iandimarino, your Code Enforcement Board director, has
had this case in front of your Special Magistrate. There has been
some proactive steps taken by the property owner. The property
owner has actually moved his business to a storefront, is my
understanding. And Tom is here.
So now what he does is, I believe he's got his employees that are
renting/leasing the house. So these are their company vehicles. And
there's no regulation in the Estates. You can park on grass. You can
store.
So even though the Golden Gate Estates is a residential
community, it has an overlay, and that overlay allows for parking on
grass, storage of materials, storage of these type of vehicles, and
currently there's no regulatory times, and that's why we were -- we're
really looking at this with Mr. Klatzkow and his staff as far as how
we can address this by ordinance versus trying to make broadbrush
changes to your Land Development Code that may, in fact, be in
conflict with the state's preemption.
So we are currently looking at that, and this board directed us to
June 10, 2025
Page 17
take it back through the iterations of your DSAC as well as the
Planning Commission, and then we'll bring it back here.
And listen, if we can bring it back sooner, we most certainly
will. We'll have this in front of your DSAC, hopefully your full
committee by September, and then we can preemptively strike and at
least get it maybe moved up in front of the Planning Commission so
that we can do our very best to expedite it for your consideration.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I guess my only question is
is -- so per our staff's interpretation, per our county attorney's
interpretation, there's nothing we can do with regard to those
activities that are transpiring now even though with --
MR. FRENCH: This is no -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's okay. But even though
my interpretation -- and, again, I'm not a lawyer, but my
interpretation of the GMP prohibits commercial activities in the
Estates.
MR. FRENCH: The business is no longer registered to the
home. The home is owned by the business, and he's leasing to the
employees. This is their work trucks that they're driving to the house
where they live is -- that's my understanding.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And this is not a -- this is not
a public discussion right now. We're just having discussions with our
staff.
MR. FRENCH: Now, if they're doing an illegal activity -- let's
say they're dumping yard debris or something like that, clearly we
will exercise the code to make sure that that illegal dumping doesn't
occur.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We have done that in the past
on this site already.
MR. FRENCH: We have. We have, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There were several illegal
June 10, 2025
Page 18
activities that have ceased, if I recall.
MR. FRENCH: You are correct, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
So I can appreciate the specifics of this one particular person
that we're talking about who's skirting the holes, as our County
Attorney said, that we need to fill, but are there people within Golden
Gate that are in clear violation of what we already have in print that
aren't -- that are -- it's so black and white, and we don't have to wait
till October. We can take action against those people who are
maybe -- you know, don't have as complicated of a case of this one
particular person we're talking about, because it sounds like, from the
citizens, it's not just this one house. There's -- you know, there's
other varying degrees.
You know, my thought is you go after the low-hanging fruit that
isn't such a complicated case, and you send a signal to the whole
community that we're no longer ignoring it.
The impression I'm getting -- this isn't my district, but I can
appreciate the argument -- is that, you know, this one particular
person we're talking about is maybe the most extreme, and he's
smarter than everybody else, and he's renting his house to people, and
he's dodging, you know, some bullets and whatnot, but it sounds like
there's also people that are just parking trucks all over their lawn,
running a welding business out of their house, things that we already
have in print that, say, are illegal, unethical, immoral, you know,
against -- against our county code.
Are there large numbers of those that we are currently
investigating taking action against, and we don't need to wait till
October to put in, you know, language that adds amendments to what
we already have in print to go after the folks that are less
June 10, 2025
Page 19
complicated?
MR. FRENCH: So that's a really good question. Thank you for
that. I will tell you -- and not that I'm testifying as an expert witness,
but I have spent -- and Mr. Maloney knows this -- the majority of my
life in Golden Gate Estates. This activity is not new. I can -- I can
assure you of that.
And now that we're seeing a vast amount of our population
spread to the eastern lands, it is becoming much more apparent
because there's not a lot of area that is -- that is -- many of these
streets were dead-end, unpaved, and very few homes many years ago,
and now we're starting to see these complaints come forward. But
you compound that with changes under Florida Statute 162 that says I
actually have to have a complainant. And it can't be a Board
member. It has to be an individual. And Commissioner McDaniel
and county attorneys and I, we went through this recently.
So at the end of the day, if we see something that is life safety,
and given the topography of the area where you've got a 660-foot
deep lot on -- that's a typical Golden Gate Estates lot, whether it's an
acre and a quarter or five acres or 10 acres, there's a lot of areas to
hide. We don't fly drones. We can't use aerial photography. We
actually have to have a lawful vantage point to where we could
provide substantial competent evidence in a court of law or in front of
your Special Magistrate or Code Enforcement Board. So we do this.
You've got a limited number of staff compared to the miles of
area to cover, as Mr. Maloney indicated, but at the end of the day,
they spend an erroneous [sic] amount of time in that area working
these cases. And whether it's a travel trailer, whether it's multiple
families, whether it's illegal construction, illegal activity that is
inconsistent with the zoning of the area, yes, sir, we're out there all
the time.
In fact, we've even most recently started at one section of the
June 10, 2025
Page 20
Estates, and we're going street by street by street by street, and we're
looking for particular things that we could justify in front of that
magistrate or Code Enforcement Board to say it's life safety, and
that's the reason why we open the case.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And have we had success, or
we've run into, as you said, all these state statutes that work against
us or these unique business owners that know how to skirt the issue?
I mean, have we shut anything down? Have we had any progress as
we've gone street by street?
Because what I would tell the citizens is it's great that everyone's
against this one guy that's lawyered up and has dodged some bullets
and creatively is using his house, but it would seem like there's some
people that probably are more black and white that are already
violating what's already in print.
Are we having success against some of these people, or are we
running into roadblocks with virtually everybody?
MR. FRENCH: We're very measured. Ron Tomasko in Jeff's
office is very good representation for us, as well as outside counsel
that we use.
I would say, you know, based on the population and probably
the number of activities, that success might be de minimis in
comparison to the amount of violations that could be out there.
But yes, sir. And we're hopeful to talk about that in your budget
process where you could actually look back and see the amount of
prosecutions and dollars you've collected off of these code actions.
And it's been this board that had told us to educate but enforce, and
that's really -- so our success factor -- and you've heard me talk about
it before as far as our conviction rates. I'm going to bring you
numbers so you could actually see from years past. But it really is,
it's an uphill climb because it -- for so many years it went unnoticed.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
June 10, 2025
Page 21
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need to move on,
but I wanted the Board to hear this. Don't run away just yet, because
I do have a comment in terms of this. But I wanted the Board to hear
this because this is a very serious problem that's only going to get
worse. We're in the budget process now. We need to beef up our
code enforcement activities.
You know, I get more complaints about code issues such as this
than anything else. And I wouldn't want to be living next door to a
house where they were parking all these trucks at -- you know, at
5 o'clock in the morning they're revving up and leaving creating all
kinds of problems.
So I want to urge staff to ratchet up the investigation of this. It
seems to me that this particular property owner, through some trick of
simply changing an address on a license, is skirting the law, but he
has the exact same operation in that same location, so it's still the
same business.
And I think there's -- you know, I seem to remember long ago
hearing, you know, in terms of legal precedence that you can't really
do something indirectly that you're not permitted to do directly.
That's what they're doing. They're skirting the law. They know they
are. And you are -- our staff, you're not taking action to enforce it,
and I think you need to do that.
But I want to encourage the manager and our staff, we need to
get a handle on this because it's just going to get worse.
Commissioner McDaniel, if we could --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll be brief. Thank you
for recognizing me.
Just a couple of things. We are beginning the process of the
review of the Golden Gate Area Master Plan rural, east of 951,
so -- but again, these things take time. This circumstance has been
happening to our -- to our residents for well in excess of a year.
June 10, 2025
Page 22
And, Commissioner LoCastro, I file code complaints all the
time; illegal rentals, repair shops that pop up in somebody's backyard
with heavy diesel equipment repair shops and things that are
transpiring, and it needs to cease.
And, Commissioner Saunders, I think you hit the nail on the
head. I've said regularly I'm not infected with that mental issue called
a law degree, but there is -- it's illegal to skirt the law at the same
time, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move on. The
message has been delivered, unless anybody else has anything to add.
MR. MILLER: Your next two speakers are Susan Zehnder, and
she'll be followed by Mick Moore.
MS. ZEHNDER: Good morning. My name is Susan Zehnder.
I'm here to provide an update from the Friends of the Vanderbilt
Library -- Vanderbilt Beach Library Committee.
We last spoke with you about the library on April 8th. At that
time, we expressed concern that the Vanderbilt Beach Library may be
considered for closure based on the following facts: The county is
looking to cut costs, the Pelican Bay Foundation and the Sheriff's
Office both expressed interest in the library property, and the Pelican
Bay Foundation had met with the County Manager regarding the
library property.
We understand that there has been no decision to close the
library; however, the Sheriff's Office and the Pelican Bay Foundation
both had reason to believe that closure of the library may be a
possibility, and this prompted our concern.
Today, we are here to provide you with feedback from your
constituents about the library before your budget workshop next
week.
Key findings about the Vanderbilt Beach Library. The
Vanderbilt Beach Library ranks fifth out of 10 libraries in visitor
June 10, 2025
Page 23
traffic.
The Vanderbilt Beach Library ranks third out of 10 libraries in
the summer reading program.
The Vanderbilt Beach Library has held an extremely popular
book discussion group with a loyal following for over 20 years.
The Vanderbilt Beach Library is accessible by neighborhood
roads and has excellent accessibility for mobility-challenged patrons.
These important attributes are critical to many Vanderbilt Beach
Library patrons who told us that they will no longer be able to visit
another library if this branch is closed.
The Vanderbilt Beach Library is an essential service to those
who use the WiFi, printers, and computers, including students and
job seekers who don't have WiFi at home.
Over 3,600 of your constituents have signed the petition to keep
the library open. The petition was available online and in person.
Over 1,900 people signed the online petition, and over 1,700 signed
in person.
The in-person signatures were collected by over 35 volunteers
who stood outside of the library in the heat because this library is
important to them. All 3,000 petition signatures are compiled in
these binders. This level of community support underscores that the
Vanderbilt Beach Library is a valued and vital resource for the
Vanderbilt Beach community.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Mick Moore, and he'll be
followed by Dan Schmitt.
MR. MOORE: Good morning Commissioners. My name is
Mick Moore. I'm one of the owners of the Vanderbilt Beach Resort
and the Turtle Club on Vanderbilt Beach.
I'm here today because of the state of Vanderbilt Beach. It's
June 10, 2025
Page 24
been severely eroded, particularly the area in front of the resort and
restaurant. The water is almost up to the seawall at high tide. We're
in dire need of a beach renourishment, and I know from talking with
staff that there's a full renourishment plan for November, but we may
need a temporary renourishment to even get to November. The
erosion is simply the worst that I've seen in the last 25 years.
Now, the history of beach renourishment is that beach
renourishment started in Collier County, I believe, in late '80s or the
early '90s, and before this time, I remember that the water was up to
the seawall, and you could not walk the entire stretch of Vanderbilt
Beach at times because of the high water and the lack of beach.
Now, we all know -- and I'm happy to see the exhibit in the
back, which is very timely -- that the beach is a major driver of both
tourism, which brings tourist tax dollars into the state, and a driver
and a reason why people move here. And it's no coincidence that
after the county started beach renourishment, both tourism took off
and the population exploded.
So beach renourishment has been done every five years since
that time, but I'm here to tell you that I think we need to do more
frequent renourishment. The cycle might need to be reduced to four
years. That would allow for a wider beach, and a wider beach helps
with several things.
First, a wider beach improves beach access for the public. We
no longer have the ability to find properties on the beach for the
public, but we can make the beach as wide as possible so that people
are not crammed in, oftentimes in very crowded conditions. It also
provides storm protection, perhaps some of the best storm protection
we can have for the coast.
And finally, it allows us to be competitive with those other areas
that are competing for our tourists: Sanibel Island, Sarasota, and
others. And right now when people come to the beach and see how
June 10, 2025
Page 25
narrow the beach is, they don't want to come back. They want to go
to those other areas.
So our property, like it or not, even as we expand east as a
county, has always been linked and tied to the beach. The beach still
matters.
So I'm here as kind of a canary in the coalmine. I'm here
because I'm at the beach every day managing a business on the beach.
I see it all the time, and I'm telling you that we need to pay attention
to the beach.
So I'd like you to do three things. First, consider a temporary
emergency renourishment for the portions of Vanderbilt Beach that
need it -- and I know Pelican Bay has a similar issue. Second, follow
through with the full beach renourishment in November or
December. And finally, consider -- ask staff to consider reducing the
cycle from every five years to every four years, which I think,
because of sea level rise and increased storms, makes complete sense.
So thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dan Schmitt, and he will
be followed by Christine Robbins -- I think this is Andrews. I hope
I'm getting that right.
MR. SCHMITT: Hi. I'm Dan Schmitt. I'm a healthcare
innovator with 35 years of experience. And I founded a company
that was the largest producer of healthcare claims in the United
States, processing millions in claims per month.
This business led me to investigating systemic corruption in the
healthcare system. And what I've found and now built solutions
around is this: The healing that we so desperately need for veterans,
for people suffering from substance abuse disorders, from mental
health conditions, and from chronic illness all share the same
mechanisms of causation, and the solution is not going to be found in
June 10, 2025
Page 26
insurance billed services.
Each day in this country, 17 to 22 veterans die by suicide due to
unresolved trauma, 132 individuals die every day by suicide linked to
mental health conditions, 295 people die from overdoses fueled by
substance use disorders, and a whopping 4,600 people a day die from
chronic preventable diseases.
For the past 15 months, I've asked Collier County to do a simple
thing, and that is to follow federal law. Federal law requires that
when a person with a disability requests a reasonable
accommodation, the government must pause enforcement and engage
in an interactive process. That process is a legal obligation to simply
have a two-way dialogue. To be explicitly clear, the lack of an
interactive process is the problem, as a two-way dialogue must occur
first before a reasonable accommodation can be decided.
But Collier County's not only failed to comply. The attorneys
admitted on record they don't know how to exactly comply. In a
similar situation, a Wounded Warriors case here in Naples ended in
federal court due to the same failure to have an interactive dialogue,
a/k/a a discussion.
And the case ended with an accommodation of seven unrelated
residents in an area that was zoned for only four. Naples paid a
$70,000 settlement reinforcing precedent that when zoning laws
conflict with federal protections, federal law prevails.
So I want to be clear -- and I don't support the outcome of that
case. Cramming seven people into a tiny house in a dense
neighborhood is not a very good healing solution.
The model I'm proposing is wildly different, substantially
lessening undue burden, arguments in comparison to that Wounded
Warrior case. But without having an interactive dialogue, Collier
County ensures that bad programs will exist, and innovations are
blocked.
June 10, 2025
Page 27
I have created a memorandum of law which describes the
obligations of this interactive process, a/k/a, again, having a
discussion, as well as a confidential accommodation recommendation
as if we already had the two-way dialogue that would jointly create a
win-win.
And so I urge you to engage in good faith and not simply defer
to judgment to county attorneys who have already failed in this
process multiple times.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christine
Robbins-Andrews, and she will be followed on Zoom by Marsha
Oenick.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And let me make one comment
before we go to the Christine there.
I had met with Mr. Schmitt. I think the County Attorney needs
to advise the Board, maybe at our next meeting, but what obligations,
if any, we do have to accommodate the issue raised by Dan Schmitt
and also to meet with Dan Schmitt to make sure that we're not in
violation of federal law.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, I can give you my answer now, but
I'm happy to come back in a more formal process at the next meeting.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think that probably would be best,
because this is catching everybody by surprise.
MR. KLATZKOW: All right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Go ahead.
MS. ROBBINS-ANDREWS: Am I supposed to push this?
MR. MILLER: No, I'll take care of it.
MS. ROBBINS-ANDREWS: Oh, okay. Good morning. Can
you hear me well?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's okay. We'll take care of it.
June 10, 2025
Page 28
MS. ROBBINS-ANDREWS: My name is Christine
Robbins-Andrews. I live at 13 Butterfield Trail, Naples, 34113. I've
visited Naples since 1976 when my father moved here. Permanent
resident for 25 years.
Two years ago, my husband and I already owned property in our
community, which was an HOA mobile home park retirement
community, and we bought another piece of property at 17 Oregon,
which we found out afterwards there was a real feral cat problem
around our home. They were defecating everywhere under our place,
ruining the golf carts, the cushions. You can't leave anything outside.
Multiple complaints by other neighbors as well.
I tried to resolve this in a neighborly fashion to the lady next
door that kept feeding them, and the lady across the street. The lady
across the street ceased, but the lady next door did not.
After a letter to the Board, I believe there was a letter sent, but
for two years she's continued to do this.
So this May, myself and other neighbors sent a letter to the
association board members requesting that they resolve this. And
one of the members brings back the brochure, which was generated
by the community -- Collier County Community Cats. I don't know
if you're familiar with that. But DAS tells me that this was written up
by them but that the Collier County Commissioners approved it and
implemented it.
And this says that feral cats, once they are trapped and taken,
they are neutered or spayed, and then they are then returned and
considered a community cat. And so then the community's
responsible, and anybody in the community can feed them, water
them, do whatever they want, apparently.
Well, this is impacting on us. And the state statutes also point
out that the statute concerning cats focused on public health, safety,
and animal welfare. Well, that's us, partly us, including our pets, like
June 10, 2025
Page 29
our dogs, which have to be controlled, and this was to control the
feral cats.
But what's happening is quite a disturbance on this part of our
side of the HMO. And apparently, my husband and I are under the
impression, well, if they're causing these damages such as -- and
disease problems -- because they're supposed to be vaccinated, but
who has proof of that?
Anyway, the cats are defecating. Who's going to clean up under
our place, or do we have to spend more money to enclose it?
Damage to our golf carts, our outdoor furniture. We've had renters
the past two years who don't want to return because of the cats,
because every time they took outside, they can't -- the cats are all
over the place.
So they're -- the county -- I'm asking you, when there was a dog
problem there, DAS said that's the HMO's problem. Now, this
is -- you're saying that DAS supersedes the HMO rights.
So we're losing income, and we have a real problem here. And
I've tried to resolve it neighborly. I tried to resolve it through the
board. So I'm hoping that the commissioners can tell me what do I
do. Who do we go to for damages? Why do cats have more rights
than a property owner? Why does my next-door neighbor have more
rights than we do?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Christine, we're going to need you
to wrap up.
MS. ROBBINS-ANDREWS: Well, that pretty much sums it up.
I hope you can help me in this dilemma because it's an income
problem --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
MS. ROBBINS-ANDREWS: -- and a disease problem, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your final registered speaker under
June 10, 2025
Page 30
Item 7 is joining us on Zoom, Marsha Oenick. Marsha, you should
be getting prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time. I
see that you have. Marsha, you have three minutes.
MS. OENICK: Thank you. My name is Marsha Oenick. I'm a
member of the Vanderbilt Beach Library Committee. Thank you for
allowing me to speak to you this morning.
Quoting from the county's strategic plan in 2025, the county's
vision is to be the best community in America to live, work, and play.
The county's mission is to deliver high-quality and best-value public
services, programs, and facilities to meet the needs of our residents,
visitors, and businesses today and tomorrow.
What does the Collier County library system provide for this?
Most of us are familiar with e-services, access to informational,
recreational materials, books, DVDs, CDs, videos, magazines and
newspapers, access to reference materials, informational databases
and their content, access to IRS forms, access to knowledgeable
people who can guide research, and programs to promote and support
reading by children and adults, but also, access to WiFi, computers
through which the internet can be accessed, printing, copying, and
scanning facilities.
These services are especially critical for people who can't afford
to provide these services in their home, or don't have the knowledge
to manage their installation and maintenance. They are critical for
those who are seeking jobs and/or a place to live.
Collier County library system has 10 facilities strategically
located to ensure that all of the large and growing Collier County
population has access to these services. This means Collier County
library services provides critical vital services to Collier County
residents in support of Collier County's mission.
To lower the library's reliance on county funding, our committee
studied the list of funding strategies proposed by ResourceX as a
June 10, 2025
Page 31
starting point. One member of our team has identified over a dozen
funding strategies that could be implemented to support the Collier
County library system in general and some specific to the Vanderbilt
Beach Library, including sponsorships and public/private
partnerships. One of these, if approved, could generate revenue
beginning by September 1st.
This list has been shared with the Library Advisory Board and
the library administration to add to the list of funding strategies they
have identified. You understand that the introduction of new
processes requires time for implementation in accordance with the
county's policies and procedures. I hope that your strategic objective,
quote, "to encourage active community engagement and
participation," unquote, will support these efforts, including enabling
the public to use online payment processes to donate to county
libraries versus requiring paper checks.
I implore you to recognize the Collier County library system is a
vital public service that requires your support in order to fulfill the
county's mission and achieve its vision. This means funding that
enables continued service to all members of the county.
Thank you for your attention.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: And, Mr. Chair, that was our final registered
speaker.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Just for scheduling
purposes, we have a time-certain at 10:30. We're going to take a
court reporter break just before we get to that item. It may be 10:30
when we take the break, because we don't want to take a break in the
middle of it.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you can get us to 10:30.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
June 10, 2025
Page 32
Item #8A
RESOLUTION 2025-121: APPEAL BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF HEARING EXAMINER
DECISION 2025-02, WHICH DENIED AN INSUBSTANTIAL
CHANGE TO ORDINANCE NO. 18-49, THE SEED TO TABLE
COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT, TO
REMOVE THE GATE CONTROL SYSTEM AT THE PIPER
BOULEVARD ACCESS TO THE PARKING LOT. THE SUBJECT
PUD IS 6.82 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST
CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF IMMOKALEE ROAD
AND LIVINGSTON ROAD IN SECTION 24, TOWNSHIP 48
SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA.
(PL20250003142) - MOTION TO APPROVE WITH CHANGES BY
COMMISSIONER HALL, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL - ADOPTED (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS
OPPOSED)
That brings us to Item 8A. This is an appeal by the Board of
County Commissioners of Hearing Examiner Decision 2025-02
which denied an insubstantial change to Ordinance No. 18-49 of the
Seed to Table Commercial Planned Unit Development to remove the
gate control system at the Piper Boulevard access to the parking lot.
The subject PUD is 6.82 acres located at the northwest corner of the
intersection of Immokalee Road and Livingston Road in Section 24,
Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.
Mr. Mike Bosi, your Planning and Zoning director, is here to
present.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, we heard this in some detail
recently, I believe, so I don't know if there are any questions. We
June 10, 2025
Page 33
understand that there's a requirement in the documents that need to be
corrected and also a fine, but everybody's agreed to everything. So I
don't know if we need a presentation on this or not.
I'll see if the Board is in need of any information on this.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then if you can tell us how to
proceed to get to that end point.
MR. BOSI: Well, I had a recommendation, but the slide doesn't
seem to want to advance.
MR. MILLER: Hold on.
MR. BOSI: It's the last slide.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, do you
want to make a comment now, or do you want to wait till after?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll wait, sir. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Is that it, Mike?
MR. BOSI: Keep going.
Okay. So what this is is the Hearing Examiner had heard the
item earlier this year in January regarding the proposed removal of
the gate for the employee parking for Seed to Table. In his decision,
the Hearing Examiner determined that it was a substantial change and
not an insubstantial and not qualifying as a PDI.
What we're asking the Board of County Commissioners is to
reverse that decision to find that it is an insubstantial change and
to -- and to authorize the removal of the gate.
One of the things that was also included as conditions of
approval were commitments that the applicant had made at the
neighborhood -- at the required neighborhood information meeting.
That was to add speed bumps and table -- speed bumps or slash tables
to that parking area to prevent or discourage cut-throughs. Also post
"authorized personnel only" signs specifically at the gate entrance to
say it's only for FP&L, the CAT system, or Public Utilities to access,
June 10, 2025
Page 34
and request police presence if necessary.
So those three conditions were offered by the applicant's
representative at the neighborhood information meeting. We want to
impose those as an alternative to the gate because of the times -- the
number of times that the gate has been taken down and had
interference with. Because of that, staff is recommending that the
Board of County Commissioners find that it does qualify for an
insubstantial change and these three additional conditions of approval
be placed within the PUD.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Chairman McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well, do we have any
public speakers, Troy?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, I'll hold my
comments until then, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other comments
until we go to public comment?
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Bosi, can you just clarify, who's taking the gate down?
MR. BOSI: From the documentation that's in the -- it's been
cited that -- either the CAT system and FP&L have indicated that
neighbors -- or individuals within the neighborhood not associated
with Seed to Table that has interfered with the gate at times.
Now, there's no corroboration. There's no documented evidence
of that other than hearsay, but that's what -- that's the information that
was provided for within the application package.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Was it a hindrance from FP&L
for their right-of-way to get in there and do work? Is that part of the
problem?
June 10, 2025
Page 35
MR. BOSI: Well, part of the problem is, if FP&L needs to get
in there, they will get through whether they have to break down the
gate or not break down the gate, because that is their easement that
the parking lot is upon, and it's clear that if they need to access that
area, they will access the area even if they have to take the gate down
by force.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Jamie, did you have an additional
comment? Because my understanding was that FP&L had removed
the gate a couple times.
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. Thank you. Again, for the record,
Jamie French.
Commissioner, you and I spoke about this yesterday,
Commissioner Kowal. And I did speak with your -- he's Eric Short,
who was a code enforcement officer, the supervisor at the time. He's
now -- he acts -- he still works for the county in the capacity of a
superintendent over Parks. But Eric was the case officer on that and
witnessed FP&L actually remove the -- they were down arms.
So what happened is that the contractor had switched to a cattle
gate with an FP&L lock on it. That then became a hinderance for
county staff, meaning CAT. I don't know about Public Utilities. But
then, you've no longer got an automatic swing arm. It's a manual
gate. So that would require, perhaps, the CAT buses to back up. I
don't know what's involved with that.
Ms. Scott and I have spoken about that as well yesterday. But I
did run that down, and they did try to make provisions for FP&L so
that they would stop removing the arms, but then that created another
problem for other authorized users that were identified within the
PUD and the lease agreement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's go to the public
comment.
June 10, 2025
Page 36
MR. MILLER: We have one public comment. Michelle -- is
this --
MS. BAMMEL: Bammel.
MR. MILLER: Is it Bammel? Okay.
MS. BAMMEL: Thank you. I'm a --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MS. BAMMEL: -- Willoughby Acres homeowner since 2018,
and I'm a full-time resident.
And I think in the presentation of the county asking to have the
gate removed, the vision has been limited to just pictures of the
parking lot. So I'm providing a map that will show you the actual
points of impact and future impact based on projects that are
currently in place before the county.
Items 1 and 2 in the lower left-hand corner are the entrance
points to the parking lot. These entrances did not exist until the
county actually allowed that Seed to Table employee parking lot to
be built. What this has done is created a cut-through to two very
busy streets from Livingston to Immokalee Road.
Piper Boulevard, moving to .1, was previously a dead end with a
small parking lot for FPL employees. So we very rarely ever saw
traffic going down to that point until the gate was removed from the
parking lot. Now, on a daily basis we'll see multiple instances of cars
cutting through the neighborhood, going to and coming from the
parking lot.
The primary intersection, once you come down Piper Boulevard
to Lakeland Avenue is .4. That is a stop sign on both sides of Piper
Boulevard. There is straight-through traffic from Lakeland Avenue
to .3, which is the Immokalee Road light, which is the primary
entrance and exit to Willoughby Acres.
At this time, we are seeing traffic backing up at the Piper
Boulevard stop signs and at Lakeland, approaching .3, the stop right.
June 10, 2025
Page 37
Cars are actually driving around the stopped traffic in the opposite
road to get by to reach the Seed to Table parking lot. There have
been multiple accidents at .4 due to this issue.
I will point out that in a two- to three-week period of time we
saw three accidents. One of them was a fatality. At .5 and Lakeland
Avenue, that's where the young teen boy was hit on his e-bike.
Within another two weeks, we had another accident, .4, and on
Euclid Avenue, .6, we had another accident. That was within two- to
three period -- three-week period of time.
These crossroads in Willoughby Acres are very narrow. They're
not a standard-size road. It's very difficult for two vehicles to pass
each other, and that's just standard-size cars.
There are very few sidewalks on these roads; that means the
children are out playing on their bikes and scooters in the road. So
they're now contesting what -- a significant increase in traffic cutting
through to get point to point.
Item 8 and 9 are proposed expansions for new housing. Eight is
going to be the expansion to the Inn. Point 9 is going to be the
Arthrex housing. So that's going to contribute additional traffic to
Piper Boulevard.
And at this time there's no consolidated Traffic Impact
Statement that actually evaluates what's happening on Piper
Boulevard and what's happened with the gate being removed from
the Lakeland Avenue/Piper Boulevard intersection.
So I ask that -- for safety purposes that you put that gate back in
place.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. BAMMEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No other speakers?
MR. MILLER: That was our only speaker on that item, sir. I'm
sorry.
June 10, 2025
Page 38
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well -- and my
question is for staff. Who owns the gate?
MR. BOSI: I believe the gate is owned by Seed to Table.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So it was put in as a condition
of their lease for the land that we own underneath the -- or on the
easement, the FP&L easement.
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And from what I
understand, when we were speaking about this, we had multiple
hearings on this throughout time. It's been problematic for FPL who
utilizes that access to get to their -- to get to their facilities -- there's a
substation or something over there?
MR. BOSI: Correct, correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And did I hear
someone say also that FPL actually had to manipulate the gate to be
able to get through?
MR. BOSI: I believe Mr. French made that assertation that they
had to manually remove the gate at one point in time to gain access.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. No further questions,
sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
It's -- the PUD, this was a novel thought to keep traffic down in
the beginning. It's county property. The gate's owned by Seed to
Table, and it's in the FPL easement. Mr. Oakes is getting the
land -- the code violations based on things that are [sic] his fault. So
with that, I'm going to make a motion to remove the gate.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have a motion and second.
MR. KLATZKOW: If you could make a motion to adopt staff's
June 10, 2025
Page 39
recommendation because there are numerous conditions to it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll amend it -- my motion to take
the gate down, put the speed bumps in, and the sign in, and if the
police want to show up, they can.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll amend the second to
accept that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Before we -- I do have a question
and perhaps a comment on the motion.
It seems to me that there should be a way to resolve a gate
operation so that the parties of interest will have a gate that operates.
I'm not sure I understand why we can't do that.
I do agree with the speaker in terms of the speed bumps. The
speed bumps aren't going to -- aren't going to deter anybody.
Anybody that wants to cut through, they're going to go through with
the speed bump. That's of zero -- in my view, zero protection.
The police, they're not going to come to a speed bump. I mean,
what would be the violation? There is none.
So I'm wondering if we could defer the vote on this, because I
think it does, from -- I'm compelled to -- by the testimony this
morning from the public that this is a problem that is going to get
worse, and I don't understand why we can't fix it so that there is a
gate.
Obviously, Seed to Table has no objection to a gate being there.
So that's not a problem. So why can't we fix that without taking the
gate down and creating what may very well be a very serious traffic
problem in a whole area?
So I'll suggest that we do that; that we defer this. The gate's
down right now, I understand.
MR. BOSI: That is my understanding, yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So no one other than the
neighborhood is getting prejudiced in any way if we defer this, but
June 10, 2025
Page 40
there's got to be a way to fix that. This is not -- as some people say,
this is not rocket science.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you. Well, the gate -- the
truth is the gate stays down most of the time. And gates don't cause
accidents. People running stop signs, people not obeying traffic laws
do cause accidents.
So I understand the rationale that there -- whatever traffic comes
on Piper is -- there's people that don't obey the traffic laws, and they
get in accidents, but it's not the gate's fault.
I don't think -- I've been up there during rush hour just to see,
when this first came up, and I didn't -- the parking lot is designed for
Seed to Table employees. Seed to Table employees only.
And I didn't see very much traffic coming through, not to cause
alarm, and certainly not to continue to let the land development
violations add up on Mr. Oakes when it's not -- he's not the one
taking the thing down, and he can't be a -- he can't be a gate
babysitter just to keep that done. So if you want to defer the vote, we
can do it, but my motion still stands.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah. Kind of two points, and I kind of agree with
Commissioner Hall a little bit, because I travel that area. I have an
interest back on Johnny Cake, which is within the community there,
and I'm back there occasionally. And I see no benefit of using that,
because it would only benefit somebody running southbound on
Livingston Road to use it as a cut-through. It wouldn't benefit
anybody going north or east or west.
And I don't know why you would want to cut through there and
have to sit at two longer lights just to get onto Immokalee Road on a
shorter queuing area than just remain in the traffic that's already there
June 10, 2025
Page 41
existing southbound.
And secondly -- and it's very easy -- there is a state statute called
"failure to obey a traffic control device," which signs fall under that,
as long as they're legally placed, within the ordinance. And the
sheriffs you could post a car there. If they see cars cutting through,
and the minute they go through there with a sign that says, "This is
authorized people only," they could get a ticket. And it used to be a
$163 fine. I don't know what it is today, but that's an easy fix to post
somebody there every once in a while just to -- if you see an uptick.
So just -- that's my --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And do we have any
information with how long the gate has been up and how long the
gate has been down? I mean, from my understanding, the gate's
down more than it's been up since it was installed and fixed, and
fixed, and code enforcement installed and fixed again.
MR. BOSI: I don't have, like, a chronology of when the gate
has been open, when the gate has been down, but that's, anecdotally,
the information that we've received from staff is the gate is down
more than its up, and that's the issue, and every time it's a code
enforcement issue associated with the property owner.
And the suggestions that they've proposed, staff felt was
adequate based upon the fact that the -- Piper Boulevard and those
roads that are to the west, those are public roads.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm -- and I'm looking at
an aerial photo. And one of the things I wouldn't -- if you want to
defer the vote, we can defer the vote, but my second still stands. I
don't -- I don't mind.
What I would like to do is maybe work with the neighborhood
of Willoughby Acres, have a discussion about -- because I've been
there. I've sold homes there. I've got friends that live there. The
June 10, 2025
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poor young man that lost his life -- I concur with my colleagues that
people disobey safety issues. People are farther -- larger offenders
with regard to the safety side of things. I concur with Commissioner
Saunders, the speed bumps aren't really going to -- really going to do
anything other than beat up my truck when I come through there, but
on the same token --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're cutting through there?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Why are you cutting through
there?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, where are you cutting
through?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I wasn't cutting through. I
was driving it just to familiarize myself with the area, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right, right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The bottom line -- my
comment that I wanted to make was sidewalks. All of the streets in
Willoughby Acres are very, very narrow, and sidewalks could be a
huge improvement, and maybe we could -- we could do a study with
regard to the cost, an individual MSTU to facilitate the financing for
those things to enhance the shoulder width and the sidewalk safety
progress along there.
My other -- my other question that I did have for you, Mr. Bosi,
is it looks like there's a road that travels all the way from Entrada
[sic] Avenue, a subdivision considerably further to the north, that
travels through that along that FP&L easement. Is that an access
road, or is that just the excess road for -- access road for FPL to do
their maintenance along there? Do people get to travel on that? I
think it's a dirt road.
MR. BOSI: I am not familiar with that -- with the official status
of that road, whether it is a dedicated county road or whether it's a
private easement.
June 10, 2025
Page 43
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a
second. As I said, if we defer this for a couple weeks to see if there's
a better solution, or a solution, we're not continuing to fine Seed to
Table. They've arrived at a settlement in terms of a fine. That
number is set, so we're -- there's no harm, no foul if this is delayed.
There may be an opportunity to correct this.
I'll call for the vote on the motion. I'm going to vote against the
motion if it proceeds today because I think there may be an
opportunity to take a further look at this. But we have a motion and a
second. If there's no desire to continue it, then I'll call for the vote.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
Aye.
And again, for the record, my opposition is simply that we need
to -- we've got a problem there, and I wanted to see if there was a
way to accommodate the neighborhood. Again, no harm, no foul if
we had delayed this.
All right. Ms. Patterson?
QUESTIONING ATTORNEY: Yes, sir.
Commissioners, that brings us to Item 9A. 9A is a
recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending the Collier County
Land Development Code to implement housing initiatives in the
Growth Management Plan related to housing that is affordable.
Mr. Mike Bosi is here again to present. And this is the first of
two hearings.
MR. BOSI: Good morning, again. Mike Bosi, Planning and
June 10, 2025
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Zoning director.
And this is the culmination of the ULI effort that started back in
2017 when the county declared that we had an affordable housing
emergency. There were a number of different initiatives that were
suggested. The majority of them were taken by previous boards and
incorporated within the GMP as well as the Land Development Code.
There were three initiatives remaining that the Board directed us
to move forward with from a Growth Management Plan standpoint,
and this is the implementation from the LDC standpoint.
The three remaining were to allow for commercial-to-residential
conversion via the Hearing Examiner, develop guidelines to
incentivize mixed-income residential housing, and provide an
increase in density to the Community Redevelopment Agency along
transit corridors.
So within this LDC amendment, Initiative 2, 3, and 5 are the
ones that we're moving. Expanding the allowance for commercial
districts developed with a residential or a mixed-use development by
right when they provide for affordable housing; Initiative 3 is
increasing density within activity centers from 16 units per acre,
which is the current limitation, to 25 units per acre. As a sidenote,
the Board has routinely approved the 25 units per acre within activity
centers based upon the GMP amendment having already being
adopted. And Initiative 5, increase density opportunities along
bus/transit lines in connection to TOD, or transit oriented
development.
LDC sections -- I won't read them all -- but there are numerous
that are being amended within here to make sure we are as
comprehensive as possible. And the most significant you're going to
see is the change to the chart. And one of the most -- you see there's
two reddish arrows. And before we used to have a moderate AMI
level, and that was 80 to 120 percent. Based upon the recent -- based
June 10, 2025
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upon a number of the GMP amendments that we had to advance
affordable housing, we were targeting the 80 and the 100 percent. So
we created a new category. We split that in half. So we have 120 to
100, which is moderate, and then medium is 80 to 100, and we think
that has a benefit.
But we also updated -- updated the LDC chart to allow for the
12-units-an-acre bonus that's now allowed and is authorized by the
Growth Management Plan amendments that were approved by the
Board.
The mixed-income housing program criteria, I'll just read a
couple of these real quick. It's to incentivize developments that
provide for a mix of housing affordability. The affordable units must
be intermixed and not segregated from the market units like we have
for most PUDs. The ratio of bedrooms per affordable have to be the
same as the market-rate units, and the commitment for 30 years is
now being memorialized within our LDC.
We were following that as part of the GMP amendments, but
this is a codifying and -- and for rentals, income verification has to be
submitted annually, and that is a traditional activity that we have.
Housing that is affordable in the C-1 through C-5 zoning
district, it allows up to 16 units an acre. The proposed -- we proposed
new development standards. All units must be housing that is
affordable in concert with the following percentages, and just -- it's a
mix to make sure that we have a range of affordable units within
these individual commercial properties that are seeking to move to
the -- to residential if they provide for affordable -- or housing that is
affordable.
And then finally, housing that's affordable in the mixed-use
activity centers in the interchange activity centers. Those are our
major intersections with the -- our collector and -- our collector roads
but also within the I-75 interchange as well, allowing for 25 units an
June 10, 2025
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acre, a mix, same regulation, same income verification, and we're
proposing some new development standards that would be required.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, did you have a
question now, or do you want to wait till --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll wait till he's finished.
MR. BOSI: And finally, the transit oriented development, if you
are on a dedicated CAT bus system route and you provide for a CAT
bus system, you can get up to 25 units an acre by this proposal. You
have to have 50 percent of your units within a quarter mile of that
bus -- of that bus stop that you would be developing simply
because -- the thinking behind that is with that quarter mile you're
going to have a -- you're going to have to condense 50 percent of
your units within a walking -- a distance that staff and the literature
says a quarter mile is not a far -- an unreasonable burden for
individuals to access public -- public transit. And the specifics of
it -- the specifics of it relate to when we have -- when we have those
dedicated CAT bus systems, and it has that specific requirement for
them to develop the transit stops.
And the recommendation that came from your Planning
Commission by 6-1 was approval of the LDC amendments, and staff
is recommending approval to the Board of County Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And this is the first of two?
MR. BOSI: Yes. This is the first of two, and if -- and if it's a
unanimous vote, the second one would be put on your summary
agenda because you've already heard the item.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
I remember working on these initiatives quite a bit when I first
went to the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, and at that
time we were talking about C-1 through C-3. My concerns are to
include C-4 and 5 because we have very limited industrial space in
June 10, 2025
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Collier County, and my preference is I would like to protect that. So
I would be fine with these things as -- for discussion without the
by-right in C-4 and C-5.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, it's not going to be a
unanimous vote today.
Did I understand you to say that this initiative's been worked on
since '17 when the ULI report came out?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So here we are eight years
later dealing with the subject matter that has been prevalent within
our community.
Before I can support this, I need new data. I mean,
Commissioner LoCastro, when you first came on the Board, you
served on the AHAC -- or the Affordable Housing Committee,
forgive me. And you brought forward an enormous amount of data
with here are the units that are affordable, here are those that are not,
here are the at-market, here are the developers that aren't playing by
the rules, so on and so forth.
I need to see that first of all. I need to see what the current
market circumstances are, because what I am actually seeing right
now eight years later, after it was deemed to be a kind of crisis, I'm
seeing rental signs everywhere. I'm seeing people out waving signs
pointing people to these rental developments, both at market and
affordable, number one.
Number two, I asked eight years ago for a modified
conditional-use process. That has never transpired. And I think we
as a Board, in my eight-year tenure, have been honoring the need for
the community, providing for housing that's, in fact, affordable on an
as-needed basis when it's picked by the Board to be in certain areas,
similar to what you're looking to do here by-right, and that's my
June 10, 2025
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concern, as I share with Commissioner Hall.
These increased by-right densities have an impact on my
infrastructure in the urban area all the way across the board. I agree
with you 100 percent in the relocation of populations into the urban
area so we have capacities to move them around. Public transit's a
nice thing, and we reduce burden on our entire infrastructure when
we have -- when we have our residents living closer to the services
that there are requisite.
But I share Commissioner Hall's concern with regard to the
by-right. No, it has to be on a case-by-case basis when it's proven
there's a need, when it's proven that it's compatible, when it's proven
that it fits into the entire scheme of what we're looking to do as a
Board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I have two questions. I guess -- well, Mr. Cormac's more
familiar, because now I'm on the -- or Affordable Housing
Committee myself now. And I know we've noticed a trend that we're
moving now. There's going to be, I think, at least two things before
the Board here in the future that's more on the lines of affordable
ownership.
Now, I don't know how this addresses or how these changes
affect that type of a concept where we're getting developers willing to
have 20, 30 percent of the homes to actually be owned as affordable,
set at certain rates for people to afford. So that's one thing. I don't
know. You could -- probably have more detail of what they're
looking for.
MR. GIBLIN: Sure. For the record, Cormac Giblin, your
director of Housing, Policy, and Economic Development.
The two that you were mentioning that are coming forward, I
think they're more of a function of the location of those specific
June 10, 2025
Page 49
properties and the underlying densities that they would be allowed to
get. They are not what I would say in the urban core. And so they
are more on the fringes where they are eligible for a lesser density,
and so they're looking at an owner-occupied property to make up
some of that difference.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I guess your position -- I
guess my position is I like to -- those type of things I want to hear
case by case. I think everything has a special circumstance attached
to it, so --
MR. GIBLIN: Sure. One thing in this amendment, the only part
of this that is the by-right is the commercial conversion. The other
two initiatives that Mr. Bosi went through still require a
public-hearing process. So the commercial conversion that is
proposed in this amendment, really, the state has already trumped us
on that with the Live Local --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, that's my second part of the
question.
MR. GIBLIN: -- which would, in fact, get a developer 25 units
to the acre and not the 16 that this would get them. So again, the
state kind of beat us to the punch on that.
As mentioned, these have been in the works for a long time. I
think that these were the -- the germination of the Live Local law that
went into -- into effect statewide, and now it's kind of we're catching
up with both the legislature and with all the private GMP
amendments that have been going through since the time these were
first discussed.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because I know I have a little
understanding. This is probably the third change they've done, and
they've passed it this year, and it definitely addressed the public
transit part of it where they define it differently than it originally was.
MR. GIBLIN: Certainly.
June 10, 2025
Page 50
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I think it's going to handcuff
us, too, as we move forward.
MR. BOSI: And Mike Bosi again.
Just to add to that, the state, they opened up PUDs. PUDs are
eligible for Live Local as well, so that was another aspect of the
change. And when it becomes law, any portion of a PUD that's
designated mixed use, industrial, or commercial is eligible for the 25
units an acre that we -- that we -- that our Growth Management Plan
would allow in terms of density within your activity centers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I'll be brief. I don't think you have the four votes. You don't
have mine, not because I don't agree with this, but I think, you know,
as I've said up here before about other things, I'd like to see a deeper
dive, a more cohesive presentation, and not because we don't
understand it, but every time we vote on something, the public needs
to understand what we just approved. And I think it would be more
valuable if something more cohesive, inclusive, and detailed was put
together to explain exactly what we're doing here, what our options
might be.
And, you know, this is one where I think delaying it isn't
because we can't make a decision, but I just think for something this
important and some of the changes that we're making, we'd benefit
more, especially when you need four votes as well. Like I said, it's
not that I disagree with this, but I think, for all -- an all-encompassing
presentation would be much more valuable before we vote on it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm going to suggest that we
continue this. One of the commissioners needs more data, and you
understand what that is; another commissioner's looking for more
presentation detail, and I think that would require staff meeting with
each one of us again to go through this in a lot of detail.
June 10, 2025
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So I'm going to suggest that we continue this. Not for two
weeks, because I don't think that's going to give everybody enough
time, but continue this until -- well, we don't have a second meeting
in July, so -- we do have the first meeting in July, but -- why don't -- I
mean, is there -- there doesn't appear to be any major urgency; is that
correct? I mean, it's been eight years since we started.
MR. BOSI: This -- and I will say -- and staff hasn't been sitting
on this for eight years.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I understand.
MR. BOSI: These were the -- these were the last of the
initiatives that were identified.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I understand. I'm just -- that was
kind of a joke. I understand. So why don't we continue this to our
first meeting in August.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd be okay with that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then staff's got some marching
orders in terms of meeting with all of -- each one of us and going
through this in detail and generating the data.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Chairman, I would just like -- and
I really want to look -- what I really want to see, and I want to make
it clear, because I think we owe it to the constituents, too,
what -- what we bring forth -- what are we bringing forth because it
was statutorily driven versus a good idea, because I think that needs
to be clear, because sometimes we can't trump the state, and if there's
things in these -- because by July 1, we're going to know exactly the
language that's in this new Live Local, and that's going to
make -- that's going to determine what direction we go with this or
what we can or can't do with it. So I just want to make sure we do
what we can do that benefits the citizens of Collier County, not just
lock, lock, and step. If there's things we can do outside of what the
June 10, 2025
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state's saying, that we get clarity --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, did you
have something else?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll be brief.
And I was kind of making a joke on the eight-year thing.
Did I hear you say that there's a statute coming through to
overcome the PUD requisite that we have in place?
MR. BOSI: Yes. Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Does our PUD requisite
protect us from that statute?
MR. BOSI: I don't believe so, no.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can they -- well, that's
another one we'll have to have a look at with our County Attorney.
And then the last thing, on a happy note, I did like the
adjustments in the AMI process, because when we started this,
Commissioner Saunders, eight years ago, our AMI in Collier County
was under 100,000. Now it's projected to be up to 115-. So those are
needed maneuvers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Real brief. I just -- I'd like to know
what the difference is in what we're proposing with these initiatives
versus what's going to be -- we're going to be trumped by Live Local.
What the difference is.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'll make a motion to
continue this to the first meeting in August. What is the date of that
first meeting, if anybody -- so we can have a date-certain?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second it. Do you want to
second it?
MS. PATTERSON: August 12th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So we'll -- motion is to
continue this until August 12th. We have a motion and second. All
June 10, 2025
Page 53
in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll see you in August. And
that's August of this year.
All right. We're going to -- we're going to take a break. We're
going to do a little bit longer than we normally do. We're going to
break until quarter to 11. That will give us -- I'm sorry -- yeah. This
was set for 10:30, but we're going to break until quarter to 11 to get
our court reporter a break, and --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 10:45.
(A recess was had from 10:25 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Ms. Patterson, if you can get us started on the David Lawrence
Center item.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Item #11A
APPROVAL AND EXECUTION: 1) A FOURTH AMENDMENT
TO VACANT LAND CONTRACT WITH DAVID LAWRENCE
MENTAL HEALTH CENTER, INC., TO MODIFY THE COLLIER
COUNTY STANDARD FORM LONG-TERM LEASE AND
INCLUDE AN OPERATING AGREEMENT EXHIBIT
GOVERNING BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CENTER OPERATIONS;
June 10, 2025
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AND 2) AN AMENDMENT TO THE NAMING RIGHTS
AGREEMENT TO CLARIFY USE OF FUNDS ACQUIRED WITH
NAMING RIGHTS. (ED FINN, DEPUTY COUNTY MANAGER) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL - APPROVED
(COMMISSIONERS HALL AND MCDANIEL OPPOSED)
This brings us to Item 11A, our 10:30 time-certain. This is a
recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners review
and consider for approval and execution, one, a fourth amendment to
vacant land contract with David Lawrence Mental Health Center,
Inc., to modify the Collier County standard form long-term lease, and
include an operating agreement exhibit governing behavioral health
center operations, and, two, an amendment to the naming rights
agreement to clarify use of funds acquired with naming rights.
Ms. Kristi Sonntag, your Director of Community and Human
Services, is here to begin the presentation. I should also mention this
item was continued from the May 27th, 2025, BCC meeting.
Kristi.
MS. SONNTAG: Good morning, Commissioners. Kristi
Sonntag, Community and Human Services director.
For the record, as the County Manager stated, this item is
continued from the May 27th Board meeting.
The item before you has been presented to the Board several
times over the last four years to address the lease agreement, the
construction and design contract, naming rights, and currently, we're
proposing the operating agreement.
Today's objective is to address and approve the amendments to
the lease agreement including the addition of the operating
agreement, an amendment to the naming rights agreement to clarify
the use of funds.
June 10, 2025
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Since the workshop, there were some questions regarding audit
provisions and the ability to audit this particular facility. So I just
wanted to clarify for you that the operating agreement, in fact, does
address the ability for the county to audit and, in fact, the operating
agreement gives the county the authority to audit all records,
documents, and books.
The David Lawrence Center must maintain accounting,
operating, and administrative controls. The operating agreement does
require the David Lawrence Center to submit a draft and final
financial pro forma annually for the county's review of the central
receiving facility. The naming rights agreement does allow for the
Clerk of Courts to audit those funds, and they must be in a segregated
account. And also, your current state-mandated MOU does include
the ability for the county to audit all records center-wide across
David Lawrence Center, so outside of the central receiving facility.
There have been several updates to the operating agreement
since we last met and talked about this. These have been agreed to
by the David Lawrence Center.
The David Lawrence Center -- so in Section 3, scope of service,
the David Lawrence Center shall operate an 87-bed central receiving
facility. This shall not result in or be the basis for any reduction in
the number of permanent beds that are currently operated by the
David Lawrence Center at its existing facility. David Lawrence
Center shall maintain a minimum current number of permanently
licensed crisis beds upon the opening of the central receiving facility.
Number 7, collaboration has been modified where David
Lawrence Center can present evidence-based alternatives to standards
every three years for the operation of the number of beds at Bathey
Lane. So essentially, that's if the David Lawrence Center was to
open a new facility somewhere, and let's say they wanted to reduce
the number of beds at Bathey Lane because of another new facility,
June 10, 2025
Page 56
they would need to come to the Board and request permission to do
so.
And lastly, they must report the number of permanently licensed
beds on an annual basis to the county.
So the fiscal impact associated with this item, as you're aware
there is a 25 percent local match requirement for mental health and
substance abuse services as stated in Florida Statute. In Fiscal Year
'25, you committed $1.7 million of General Fund dollars of which
303- was a one-time nonrecurring request, so your base funding was
1.4 million. These funds are used to augment the LIP program. As
you know, that's your federal program that gives you an adjusted
return back to David Lawrence Center and capitalizes on those
dollars.
There is a $522,000 opioid settlement agreement that the David
Lawrence Center has.
The base funding for '25 included $812,800 of State and Local
Fiscal Recovery. Those funds are exhausted, and that ended in
March of '25, and those will not be replenished in upcoming years.
As a reminder, per the operating agreement, the county is
responsible for the capital replacement, and we've set aside $460,000
per year for that.
So talking about shortfalls. Again, Collier County is not
responsible for any additional funding beyond the state-required local
match obligation. If sources of revenue for the operation of the CRF
from the federal government, state government, or Collier County are
reduced, David Lawrence Center may submit a request to you for
deficit operational funding only after they have tried to seek other
revenue resources through municipalities, philanthropic donations.
The Board may approve the request, deny the request, or adjust
the level of service. If the Board denies the funding and declines to
adjust the level of service, this would be your grounds for termination
June 10, 2025
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if you so chose.
So with that, I'll bring up Mr. Burgess, or if you have any
questions for me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any questions for staff?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. BURGESS: Thank you. While that's being loaded, I
appreciate it. For the record, Scott Burgess, CEO of David Lawrence
Centers for Behavioral Health.
Thank you for allowing us to be here again to review this item
with you. I do have some high-level remarks to make that are just
reviewing salient points that have come up in our conversation
addressing comments that have been expressed and to provide
additional clarity on recent questions.
So what is -- has been expressed is very clear in this process is
these are significant and growing needs in our community. I
appreciate the fact that we just had, last week, the mental health
workshop that you all participated in. Thank you for that opportunity
to be before you with our, you know, 30 collaborating organizations
and community leaders who were engaged in the process of offering
up recommendations on mental health and substance use challenges
in our community, trying to put forward solutions and
recommendations and also execute on those. I appreciate your
opportunity to do that.
What has remained clear also in that process and was expressed
last week by that entire group, the Collier County Coalition for
Healthy Minds, is that this remains -- the central receiving facility
remains the number-one priority of the strategic plan that has now
been in existence for five years and now going into our next five-year
plan.
I come to you today with DLC having been a 56-year trusted
June 10, 2025
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provider with a proven track record in our community providing
impactful and effective care. Not only that, but also available to all
in our community. And as we've gone through before, there are
many that have struggles with income, with no insurance, and that are
underinsured.
DLC has a successful track record of being able to grow its
services to meet the growing needs in Collier County and was cited
before that in the last 12 years, Collier County's population has
grown 26 percent, and DLC services have grown 138 percent. So we
have that demonstrated track record of being able to effectively
mobilize, execute, and enhance services.
DLC's board and our staff were comfortable on taking -- in
taking on the risk of the annual fundraising variance that we've talked
about based on our historic success and our growing support. We've
had an ability to rally the philanthropic community based on our
years of trust in the community in providing these vital services and
care. We've demonstrated an ability to leverage diverse funding
through grants as well as federal and state and local supports. Our
board, our executive team, and our treatment team are fully
committed to success in this project, and we are confident that we
will have success yet again.
To ensure that there's full clarity related to the number of
beds -- and, as you know, that was built into the actual operating
agreement -- we have committed that we are going to maintain the 33
crisis beds that are on the current Bathey campus, permanent beds.
We're going to be adding the 87 new beds in the central receiving
facility, for 120 total beds between the two sites.
The average bed cost -- I know that's come up before. To build
a psychiatric bed ranges between $680,000 to a million dollars. The
cost per bed for the central receiving facility is $644,000, which is
below the low range for behavioral health, in this range.
June 10, 2025
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This is partially due because DLC is committed to purchasing
the furniture and fixtures, the security equipment, and the medical
equipment for this facility.
It's already been discussed in the previous presentation by Kristi
that we have built in the agreement what Commissioner Saunders had
presented at the last meeting, and that's in the red information there,
which I know you have all seen.
It was also discussed in the previous presentation in the
collaboration section that there's this three-year review on the Bathey
Lane campus beds as well.
From a budget projection standpoint, the numbers have not
changed since the last time we were before you. You do see that
there is an operational shortfall in the projections on the central
receiving facility going from about 870,000 -- or 730,000 to
1.4 million across those five years.
We've also provided in the pro forma the information regarding
DLC's center-wide budget projections. So you see those numbers as
well. So that is inclusive of the central receiving as well, so between
both campuses and all of DLC's operations. And you see that on the
out-year of '32, that goes to about $3.7 million.
And then I wanted to -- I made a statement before that we have
confidence that we'll be able to address that shortfall, and that's based
on our historic success that we've had and our growing support. So I
wanted to provide you just some information regarding our more
recent fundraising in the last few years and the historic average of 3
point -- close to, if you round it, $3.7 million.
With that, I'm available to answer any additional questions that
you may have.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Two quick questions.
The slide you put up with total beds was different than the slide that I
June 10, 2025
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saw. I can't remember if it was in the workshop or it was at the last
meeting, Mr. Burgess. You talked about the 87 new beds and
keeping the 33, but I also saw an expansion of your existing facility,
and I didn't see that today. Has that plan changed?
MR. BURGESS: No. What was presented today are the crisis
stabilization beds. So it's 120 crisis stabilization beds. We will
continue to have other beds that are on the DLC campus that are not
Baker Act or Marchman Act related beds.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you were expanding that
to -- I think I saw 67 or 76 beds.
MR. BURGESS: Correct. Well, the 78 beds is inclusive of the
33.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. BURGESS: So we will have -- in addition to the crisis
stabilization beds, we project that we're going to have 42 beds --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Additional?
MR. BURGESS: -- that are going to be in addition to be
available for other substance use disorder services.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And your funding mechanism
to support that?
MR. BURGESS: Is already in place.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's already in place, okay.
And then the last -- the second question that I had was during
the workshop, you represented that there were limitations -- if we
came away from this location as was recommended by the consultant,
that there were limitations on funding sources based upon proximity
to the jail, I think, is what I heard; is that correct?
MR. BURGESS: That is. It's my recollection that we had an
individual from Central Florida Behavioral Health, that is the
managing entity, that had -- I believe, it was Linda McKinnon, who
was the CEO at the time, that spoke to the group in relationship to the
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fact that to put such a facility next to the jail would be contrary to the
movement that's been going on for a long time to de-stigmatize these
challenges and, therefore, they would not support grant dollars going
towards that facility.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Anybody else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If not, do we have any registered
speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yes, Mr. Chair. We have 15 registered, many
of whom have ceded their time to one individual. Your first speaker
is Jay Kohlhagen, and he will be followed by Penelope Hayes.
MR. KOHLHAGEN: Good morning, Commissioners. Is this
mic on? Stakeholder Jay Kohlhagen, 34112.
Hey, I don't want to really get into this fuzzy math here -- we've
got going here, but what I witnessed this past Saturday in Naples only
reinforced the urgency that there was clearly a rising need for
mental -- more mental beds, especially for children. Reducing
capacity at this time when demand is increasing, to me, seems
shortsighted.
In the current site, could that support more beds at a reasonable
cost? We need to seriously consider relocating the project to a more
suitable and cost-effective location, one that can be accommodated
with the original or even expanded capacity.
In the meantime, I strongly urge this board to put this project
back out for competitive bid, at least three qualified proposals
reviewed publicly. That is a responsible path forward to ensure we're
getting the best value and truly serve the needs of the community.
Thank you for your leadership and commitment to mental health
in Collier County.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Penelope Hayes, and she's
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been ceded time from 10 additional speakers for a total of 33
minutes. I want to go through these list of people ceding time.
Catherine -- is it Scherk?
MS. SCHENK: Schenk.
MR. MILLER: Schenk.
Susan Salzmann?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Tom Salzmann?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: John Anderson?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Sally Anderson?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Kenneth -- I can't read this -- Koernen?
MR. KOERNER: Koerner.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, sir.
Alex Pagan?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Burt Hayes?
(Raises hand.)
MR. HAYES: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Oh, over there.
Theodore -- or Theresa Pagan?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: There.
Cindy Brown?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: There. She will have a total of 33 minutes and
will be followed on Zoom by April Donahue.
MS. HAYES: And there's the PowerPoint presentation. Make
sure it's running.
June 10, 2025
Page 63
MR. MILLER: Yeah.
MS. HAYES: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record, I
am Penelope Hayes. I come to you as a neighbor to the DLC site and
a Collier County taxpayer. I am here to shed light on the confusion
that has been borne from the entanglement with a potential service
provider.
We now have enough data and experience with this process and
service provider to see that it doesn't fit. Let's begin with the
transportation promise, PUD Commitment 8E, outlined by Scott
Burgess himself on May 27th. In this part of Mr. Burgess'
presentation, he was endeavoring to assure you that they have
covered the concerns of the neighborhood, experiences that we've
testified to, including elopements into our neighborhood, loitering on
our properties, and more.
Mr. Burgess told you on May 27th that every discharged
customer, from what is now being dubbed the "new facility," will be
offered transportation out of our neighborhood, but what he didn't say
is that there's no line item in the operating budget pro forma to do
that, and yet with 87 beds on a rotation of 72-hour holds, this means
an average of 10,440 discharges every year. If you estimate
$15 -- $15 per Uber ride, that's $156,600 a year, and it's missing,
unaccounted for in their operating budget. And if a person lives
farther away, you can expect $30 Uber rides, and that doubles the
expense.
So what happens? Without funding, 10,440 people per year,
described on May 27th by DLC's own chairman, Edward Morton, as,
quote, "suffering from alcohol abuse and fentanyl addiction," end
quote, will be released into our neighborhood every single year.
This is either an unspoken operation cost or an enormous safety
risk in the neighborhood and burden on our police department. In
truth, it's both.
June 10, 2025
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More words without actions, false claim of monthly meetings.
DLC's words don't match their actions. On May 27th, Scott Burgess
stood before you under oath and said, and I quote, "We are meeting
with the neighbors monthly," end quote. This is false.
In November of 2022, the Planning Commission downright
scolded Mr. Burgess and his team and strongly suggested that they
hold regular meetings in the neighborhood. Mr. Burgess agreed to do
that, and yet they did not contact us for such a meeting until March of
this year. That's nearly three years.
There was one meeting, and, ironically, the next is today at
4 o'clock, which simple math tells you it's quarterly, not monthly, as
Mr. Burgess claimed in what has been an outrage to many of our
neighbors; however, frankly, we don't think that meeting with DLC
will suddenly make the conditions better and more peaceful and safe
in our neighborhood.
The point in mentioning this false claim is simply to
demonstrate that an issue and -- to demonstrate the issue and to ask
you the question: Why are we trusting the words on -- Scott Burgess'
words on such critical hinge points? So when we hear things like we
promise transportation or we promise outreach, we must ask, are
these real plans or just empty statements? What this process has
taught us is that DLC leadership will say whatever is necessary to get
what they want. It's a shell game.
The confusion ends today. Let's end the tangled numbers, the
contradictions, and the shell game of bed counts. Higher costs, less
services. This ends today.
What's the real bed count on day one before ribbon cutting? It's
been hard to watch, especially when these numbers shift at every
meeting, bouncing from 15 to 33 to 48 and back again. Fifteen
COVID beds to end soon, an expansion on DLC main campus that
will add X number, and on and on to exhaustion.
June 10, 2025
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All of this is designed to -- is it designed to distract and confuse?
On May 27th, the real number of beds being moved was finally
confirmed by Kristi Sonntag, Director of Community and Human
Services, Collier County, and Scott Burgess. The number is 48: 30
CSU adult beds, 3 ESAC, 15 detox. And so the delta of 48 from 87
is 39. Not 87, not 105; 39. The transcript is up on the screen.
And it ends with, "Okay, so you're moving 48 beds?" says
Ms. Sonntag.
Mr. Burgess says, "Right."
The delta is 39.
I also want to point out that there's no old site and new site.
Let's be clear, this is a matter -- this is not a matter of an old site and
a new site. There are two distinct businesses at play here. One is the
David Lawrence Center, a private entity. The other is the Collier
County Receiving Center, which belongs to the public. Right now
that distinction is being blurred, and it's the very root of the issues
with this site and the service provider requiring 19 meetings to try to
make it work. Entangle these business -- un-entangle these
businesses. Take back home court advantage. Whatever happens
inside DLC, whether beds are moved, added through renovation, or
teleported in from Mars is not our business. Let's close the lid on
what's happening inside DLC.
We have no agency there. We have no business there. The
delta of our business is 39.
And do the written donor commitments exist? We are told that
there is donor support, so where are the written pre-commitments?
DLC has had years to secure these. If they existed, we would not be
worried about the budget. Where is the proof that funding exists to
cover not only the furniture but medical equipment? But also a
900,000 plus annual operating shortfall, and let's add the 156,000 for
the transportation out of our neighborhood.
June 10, 2025
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Will those same donors also fund in any way the major
renovation? I think you just spoke to that, and they already have.
That's been covered. So are the same donors being tapped for the
renovation and the new project? This is so pie in the sky. The math
has collapsed.
We were told 105 beds for 25 million. Now it's 39 beds for
56 million. That's nearly 1.5 million per bed. And then there's the
operating budget deficit, $1,056,600 per year and growing. While
people on pillows on beds before a grand opening was quite a
mystery, it's also not logical to say that adults coming in under
Marchman Act and suffering from drug addiction and fentanyl will
ever be mixed in again with children in the DLC main campus youth
ward. That's illogical.
But again, that's not our business. What happens inside DLC is
their business. What is clear to you and your staff and not a mystery
to anyone is that the building itself shrunk. And why? It's the site
restrictions pointed out by Ms. Patterson noted on -- as she noted on
May 27th. She said quote, "height restrictions and zoning
restrictions," end quote. This shrunk the project. This shrunk the
services. The DLC campus site is the restricting factor.
As far as the overage of one million-plus in annual operating
expenses, well, that factor is plain and simply the operating
agreement with DLC and all that was traded away for the land
transfer. DLC can't cover their own interests, yet it's us who have no
cards, no leverage? This deal -- with this deal it's all gone with the
wind. The math has collapsed and so have the cards.
Knowing that DLC could come to the county for operational
funding if they cannot raise the deficit every year, we must ask, how
deep are their donor pockets?
When their big donors pass away, will the next generation of
donors, whoever they are, make the same annual deposits? And
June 10, 2025
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when DLC inevitably does come back to you for more money, will
you really be able to say no when there will be a lineup of speakers
before you with very passionate outcries, clergy even, and DLC's
board asking you to not let DLC fail?
The dream, the intention, the plan for this project can be likened
to a square peg that does not fit in the DLC campus round hole. This
has, indeed, been a tangled and messy process all along the track.
And perhaps when you sue your own charitable foundation to gain
the land, you've muddied and marred the outcome from the start.
Time, research, and years of experience trying to whittle it down
has shown us that it just doesn't fit.
The 2021 Board of County Commissioners vote was not a
promise. Let's remember something important. The 2021 vote was
not a promise to DLC. It was a motion to explore the site. There was
no neighborhood information meetings noticed yet at that time, no
neighborhood input, no final agreement, and certainly no financial
analysis or clear business case. That vote was to collect the data that
we now have, yet what started as an exploration has somehow
steamrolled into assumption. Other operators specializing in what is
needed exists.
When we see Scott Burgess and his staff not able to clearly
answer questions, when we see missing data and thin budgets, when
we hear testimony that is misleading and we know to be untrue, we
question why you are still questioning their abilities. We see a good
organization, but we see them clearly out of their depth.
As has been pointed out by members of this board, DLC does a
good service in the community for mental health needs, yet they do
not specialize in drug addiction and fentanyl abuse. No organization
is going to tell you that they cannot handle tripling their service
scope. It is up to you to stop them from capsizing their entire ship.
When you stand to triple your business, you should come to
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these meetings with an A-plus presentation.
This opportunity isn't a gift. It's a chance to prove you're the
right fit. Any provider should treat this as the monumental
opportunity that it is. While DLC could still earn a service contract at
the Collier center, this is not a DLC-or-nothing scenario. There are
other qualified, experienced operators who specialize in this type of
care.
Another provider and the RFP process itself would offer
competition, innovation, a well-equipped business growth plan, a
much sharper pencil, and value to taxpayers. Bring this project
home. Commissioners, it's time to bring this project home back into
clarity, back into the county and public control. We have excellent
county staff. We have the budget. We even have sites. Let's put this
out for competitive bid. Let's make balancing their own operating
budget a mandatory requirement for consideration.
Let's agree that a business with a plan to lose money every year
is a plan to fail. No business can stay afloat that way.
Let's unburden this neighborhood. Unburden the police from
amplified collisions with this neighborhood and unburden DLC from
a commitment that they can't make on their own behalf. Rather, let's
invite DLC and others to an RFP and see them put their best
presentation forward and sharpen their pencils and be required to
prove they can handle the business load.
What we need is a clean start free of the tangled mess weighing
down the goal. We do not have to cut the corners off to make this fit.
We've already done that, and it still doesn't fit.
Let's empower Amy Patterson and our county team to take the
lead. Let's create a facility that's worthy of our county. Let's make
sure the service provider, whoever it is, is the best fit, because right
now we are standing on the edge of giving away tens of millions of
dollars in taxpayer money.
June 10, 2025
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Let's say no today because the facts demand it, and our
community deserves it. Let's say yes to a state-of-the-art county
facility, a smart and unrestricted location under the domain of the
county and for the people. Let leadership lead.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker joins us on Zoom, April
Donahue, and she will be followed also on Zoom by Pamela
Cunningham.
Ms. Donahue, you should be getting prompted to unmute
yourself, if you'll do so at this time. And I see that you have. You
have three minutes.
MS. DONAHUE: Thank you very much, Commissioners and
Chair and Vice Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you
today.
And I'm speaking with you on behalf of the Collier County
Medical Society board of directors to express their support of the
Collier County Behavioral Health Center and ask you to approve the
David Lawrence Centers for Behavioral Health operating agreement.
This will ensure that the approved construction moves forward in a
timely manner.
There remains a pressing need for improved mental health
services for both adults and children in Collier County. And the
development of this new facility represents a vital step towards
meeting that need that our physician members are anxiously awaiting.
The board strongly supports this initiative and would be glad to assist
in any way that may be helpful.
Thank you again.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is also on Zoom, Pamela
Cunningham.
Ms. Cunningham, you should be getting prompted to unmute
yourself, if you'll do so at this time. I see that you have. You have
June 10, 2025
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three minutes.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning, Commissioners.
Dr. Pam Cunningham, for the record.
I emailed all of you with my thoughts on this project but was
asked to speak also on the record regarding this issue.
I, in my career as a physician, have treated thousands of
mentally ill patients, have a very strong understanding of mental
illness, and also have really a strong heart for patients with
these -- these illnesses. It's a terrible condition. All of them are
terrible conditions.
That being said, anyone who looks at this proposal should know
that it is not the right way forward for either patients or for taxpayers.
The numbers have changed drastically, leaving the county with
potential for tremendous debt over a 30-year period.
According to the Collier County Clerk of Court's report, with
current DOGE scenarios, quote, "The potential financial liability that
could fall back on taxpayers is unlimited," end quote.
This is not acceptable to me as a taxpayer, and it's not acceptable
to me as a mother. It's not acceptable for people living on fixed
incomes.
I respectfully ask that you take a step back, send this project out
for rebids, hire a consulting firm as needed, and come up with a
scenario that is organized, that will truly help patients in need and
that will be fair to the taxpayers both of today -- both today's
taxpayers and those of my children's generations.
I want to briefly mention also that the -- your lady staff member
who spoke -- who presented at the beginning said that if funding gets
cut, the Board could vote against more funds and could terminate the
contract, but what would this look like for our community? And I
assume the county would not get paid back for its initial investments.
As Ms. Penelope Hayes so astutely pointed out in her excellent
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presentation, does the David Lawrence Center have signed contracts
for donors that they can provide to you as our county leaders? If this
has not been done, then this burden should -- will fall back ultimately
to the taxpayers.
Please vote no on this issue today and get back to the drawing
board for a successful -- successful way to move forward for these
patients in need.
Thank you so much.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I was handed one other slip. It says
he may or may not speak.
Father Orsi, did you want to speak?
And this will be our final registered speaker on this item.
FATHER ORSI: First of all, I want to thank all of you who
have been working for so long on this project, and I really respect
many of the concerns that you have. You've helped to clarify some
things for all of us, and you've also showed us where improvement is
needed, at least in presentations and perhaps for future funding for
the project.
I also want to thank the concerns of the community. They
certainly made a very fine presentation, although I think we have to
look at the big picture. Big picture is we can't kick the can down the
road anymore, okay. We are in a mental health crisis in our country
and in this county. We have a drug problem, a mental health
problem.
Two of the commissioners at least are very familiar with what
I'm talking about. Commissioner Kowal was with the Sheriff's
Department. He knows the problem.
Commissioner LoCastro knows the problem that we have with
the hospitals. We don't even have a hospital here that can take care
of people with mental health issues.
I've been in and out of the hospitals. I've been involved with St.
June 10, 2025
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Matthew's House. This is a crisis.
The finances are available. You had your penny tax collected.
It started with $25 million. Well, it's up to $50 million now. And
why? Look at all the years this has taken. See what COVID has
done? Could we predict COVID? No. Do you see what inflation
has done? Could we have predicted the inflation that we have? The
answer is no. We can't predict the future, but we can predict the
needs that we have right now.
Perhaps if there is need, a future Board of County
Commissioners will have to make other decisions, but if we do not
make this decision now -- now, today, for the expansion of the David
Lawrence Center and the central receiving facility, we are going to be
entertaining a moral hazard for the people of our county. The sick
people -- the addicted people are also sick people -- but also for the
general population when these people have no place to go and no
place to be healed.
So I encourage you -- and I'm going to say this right now. Some
people are concerned that Mr. Burgess will not live up to his
promises. Let me tell you, Mr. Burgess will live up to his promises,
and I'll be sure that he does.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, with your discretion, please, we did
have someone preregistered to speak on this item on Zoom, and they
did not join us until Father Orsi was speaking. With your permission,
I'd like to call on them.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
MR. MILLER: All right. Kathi Meo.
Kathi, you should be getting prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so. I see that you have. You have three minutes.
MS. MEO: Thank you very much. Although I highly respect
Father Orsi, I have to disagree with him at this point in time. He's
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saying, "Oh, we have to do this today. It needs to be today." Well, I
respectfully disagree with that. It doesn't have to be done today.
This is, I believe, your 19th -- 18th or 19th meeting regarding
this situation where it's involving over $56 million. And as the
previous speaker, Penelope, had gone over so many issues and
problems with this entire scenario -- it's a lot of money. I believe that
there should be another look at -- you did it for -- when you were
doing the budget, you had an independent come in and look at the
budget.
And to go from 26 million to 56-million-plus and not even have
all of the delineation of everything that this encompasses, it just
seems to me to be a rush decision, even though it's the 19th meeting.
It definitely needs to be looked into further. Get another couple
of bids. It's a lot of money. It has a lot of issues that have not been
addressed.
And I respect you all. I sent you an email last night with some
other issues that need to be looked at.
And yes, we do agree there is absolutely a need, and nobody is
questioning that whatsoever. There's absolutely a need. But to spend
this kind of money and not have the clarity on what really is in
this -- you know, it's like the Big, Beautiful Bill and all of these
gigantic bills that they have in Congress. This is our big, beautiful
bill for DLC, and it really needs to be looked at a little bit further and
do a deeper dive.
I respect all of you. I know that you all are concerned with the
taxpayers, and I believe that you need to look at this further.
Thank you very much for your time.
MR. MILLER: I said before, but I mean it this time, that was
our last speaker.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you. I know he
June 10, 2025
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has a previous engagement. If I could, I'd like to call -- I think you're
chief, aren't you? Are you a chief -- Chief Roberts to the podium.
And he's my friend, so I always call him Chris. So forgive me if I
don't formally recognize your title, sir.
CHIEF ROBERTS: Good morning, Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning.
CHIEF ROBERTS: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you could answer a couple
of questions for me, please, because, there again, the need with
regard to this circumstance is not the question for today.
My question to you is within the existing jail facilities that
Collier County has, approximately what is our average population
that we have in our -- in our jail system?
CHIEF ROBERTS: So if I could put clarity to your question --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
CHIEF ROBERTS: -- I think what you're talking about is a
crisis or central receiving facility which would treat inmates and/or
patients that are currently under a live Baker Act.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHIEF ROBERTS: That population in your jail today averages
between eight and 12 inmates per day. Only about 30 to 50 percent
of those are able to be taken on the current David Lawrence Center
facility, and only about 30 to 50 percent of those would be able to be
taken on the new facility, with the remainder being folks that are
violent felons that I don't think any of us want outside the secure
facility of the jail.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen.
And the overall population capacities of the -- of our jail system,
do you -- rough estimate, Chief; just a rough estimate as to the total
beds, if you will, available within the jail system currently.
CHIEF ROBERTS: The current available beds with current
June 10, 2025
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staffing is about 900. We actually have a rated capacity of
over -- just slightly over 1,300 beds. Obviously, staffing contracts
and everything would go into increasing the population, should we
see a rise.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. And our
average population -- because I remember the Sheriff way back when
I first became a commissioner, he was sharing with me we were -- we
were staying pretty steady at about 800 visitors. I call it the Collier
County Hotel. So we were -- we were pretty level at that 800
number.
CHIEF ROBERTS: We still are pretty level between 750 and
800 on a daily basis, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So for my assumptions, the
average of 800 or so still leaves a space of about, potentially -- and I
understand the stockade in Immokalee comes in with the total beds,
but about 300 spare -- or not utilized beds on a regular basis.
CHIEF ROBERTS: Four hundred probably.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus/minus. Okay.
And currently when one of our deputies picks up someone who's
suffering from mental illness or a substance abuse, do we have detox
facilities within the jail system itself?
CHIEF ROBERTS: No, sir, we do not. Currently, Marchman
Acts are brought to the jail. We only get an average of one of those
every two or three days. But essentially, we're not a treatment
facility for those purposes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. And how about
our DJJ, the -- for the -- for the adolescent population; is there detox
facilities there?
CHIEF ROBERTS: I'm not familiar with their operations, sir. I
can't answer that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Okay. That's all the
June 10, 2025
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questions I had for Chief.
I do have a question for Ms. Sonntag, if I may.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure, Ms. Sonntag.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Chief.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I actually had a question for the
chief.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll get back to him.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He has a meeting at 11:45, so
that's why I wanted to bring him up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Hey. How you doing, Chief?
CHIEF ROBERTS: Great, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know you as Chris also.
CHIEF ROBERTS: Yes, sir. I know. I know you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, I chair on the Public
Safety Committee, and I know we've had discussion at depth because
of this crisis in the jail, because I just want to make it clear that when
you have a Marchman or a Baker Act, we can't put those in general
population, like, just because we have empty beds in the jail, correct?
CHIEF ROBERTS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We have a specialized medical
facility that has a limited amount of beds, and right now, the males
pretty much occupy every bed in there; is that correct?
CHIEF ROBERTS: Actually, they overpopulate that
particularly purposed built part of our facility. As we talked about in
the Public Safety Coordinating Council meeting --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We have a makeshift one for the
females, which is dangerous for them right now.
CHIEF ROBERTS: Right. The actual rated capacity of that is
26 beds. We run 35 to 40 male inmates in there, which doesn't
include the females which are a -- typically are in more need of
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mental health and substance abuse treatment inside the jail, and those
female patients average 20 to 30 on a daily basis, are actually housed
in an old part of the old jail, which is really terrible for what we're
doing there. But we have to keep them separate, and we have
to -- and as you're aware, we're looking to try and ask -- come back to
the Board and ask for money to look at remodeling the jail, because
we do have extra beds that we think we could save money by
remodeling them to proper facilities versus building a new facility for
those beds.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I don't want to sound
gruesome, but as of right now, I know at some point we had a
history -- there was a history of a few females that may have tried to
commit suicide just by jumping off the upper tier, which is not
actually designed to have the mentally ill people in that type of
situation, correct?
CHIEF ROBERTS: That's correct, sir, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you, Chief.
CHIEF ROBERTS: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did have a question for
Kristi.
I asked Mr. Burgess earlier on about the potential or not, if you
will, with regard to contributions or assistance with financing. Are
you aware of grant limitations from any agency with regard to
assistance with financing because of the proximity to the -- to the jail
system that we currently have?
MS. SONNTAG: Kristi Sonntag, Human Services director.
No, Commissioner, I am not aware of any federal or state grants
that prohibit funding based on location.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. No one else is lit up.
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Any other questions or comments? Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I do. The need is great and it's
growing.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Can I respond to some of the comments?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: In a moment.
COMMISSIONER HALL: As far as being a crisis, that's a
stretch. Not to -- not to deny it's a growing thing. But Mr. Burgess
said DLC has the ability to meet the growing needs, which made me
feel better.
This particular deal has morphed into something not good. The
voters agreed to spend surtax money for this very single purpose, but
what they agreed to was $25 million and for David Lawrence Center
to take care of all operating expenses. That's what they agreed to.
Now we've morphed into $56 million. Our beds, who knows
where they are. We're going to build 87 beds, but out of that, 39 of
them are going to be open because they're going to transfer 48. And I
don't know where we're -- I don't know why all of a sudden we are
including existing David Lawrence Center operations and
commingling them with new taxpayer obligations. I don't know how
that happened.
But when I look at spending $56 million of the taxpayers'
money, I only want to consider the new central receiving facility. I
don't really care what happens next door. And Father Orsi mentioned
it. We can't -- we don't want to kick this can down the road, but there
are things that I think that we can take action of as a board that would
actually be faster in getting treatment for people than building a new
facility at 56 million bucks.
You know, there's an underlying pressure that I don't know why
people are feeling about June 22nd with the construction manager.
We have to know what we're going to do because our construction
contract is -- we have to answer them by -- so what. That's -- we
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shouldn't enter into doing something not smart or not -- or not well
thought out because of a third party's contract.
If I had a $40 million thing -- I don't know what their -- I don't
know what their agreement is, but I'm just going to use it in round
term. If I had a $40 million contract, and I couldn't get a decision
based on local government or decision-makers, I think I would be
patient. I don't think I would just flush that down the toilet because
of other powers that be. But that could happen; could not happen.
I'm not going to argue that. But I'm not under any pressure at all to
just forge through and make a decision based on haste.
You know, when I get out of this little 200-piece -- 200-person
bubble that we're in here in local government in this -- and this
subject, no one that I ever talk to even says this is -- why are you
even considering this? Why -- this is crazy. This -- you know, if this
was private -- if this was private business, this would be like, why are
you even discussing this? But it seems to be allowed that we can talk
about it because of public money.
And I've said it before, I just can't go forward. It's not about the
cause. The cause is noble. The cause is felt. I mean, it's growing.
We acknowledge that, but there are other options.
On July the 2nd, the Willough facility comes open. It's under
contract right now by a faith-based entity. We don't know much
about that. But on July 2nd they have to put up or shut up, and I
would personally like to postpone this decision until we find
out -- we could purchase that facility and remodel it a lot faster, and
we could -- and David Lawrence Center could operate there. They
could operate there. They could partner with faith-based businesses.
They could partner with other people who do substance abuse,
because there's no one better with the mental health aspect than the
David Lawrence Center. That's unquestionable, but there are people
that I feel like are stronger suited for substance abuse. They could
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partner with those people in a government-owned facility.
And surtax money could pay for it. They could share revenues,
they could share expenses, and they could share expanded services.
It seems like it's a decent exit tragedy than just forging through with
this one.
I just -- I would like to see us not be under pressure to make a
hasty decision just because we said we did, just because we said we
would, just because we get under pressure to do something
piecemeal.
You know how I'm going to vote today, so however it turns out
it's going to turn out.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I want to commend Ms. Hayes for giving a concise briefing.
I've said before, we need to sort of, you know, not to be disrespectful,
kind of dumb it down and just get to the brass tacks, and you
definitely did.
I do want to give the other side a chance to address some of
those things because in some of the points you made, there's
definitely meat on the bone, but I'd love to hear, you know, their
rebuttal to it because I haven't yet. You presented a few new things
that are definitely worth a response back. So while somebody from
David Lawrence Center gets ready to take the podium, I'll just make a
couple statements.
I wish we did this deep of a dive on other things that we spend
taxpayer dollars on them. Many of them much less critical. When
the term has been thrown around saying, you know, this has morphed
and grown in size, I blame the county for that. Shame on us.
It didn't morph in size due to poor leadership. It morphed in size
due to, you know, 18 meetings. And so apartment buildings have
morphed in size over the last few years, houses, anything that we
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build. The sports complex, if we built it today, it would cost a lot
more money. I'm sure if Great Wolf Lodge came to us today, they
would want more than $15 million that we gave them, and imagine
what we could have done with that money for mental health.
I respect what Commissioner Hall says, but I want to go on the
record saying, I do care what happens next door in David Lawrence
Center, because I think what we're trying to do, whether it's David
Lawrence Center or another company -- and there's plenty of them
who do it. I don't know if a bunch of them are breaking our door
down to do it here, but putting the two missions together is creating a
cohesive approach to addressing mental illness. So it's not about
popping a bunch of satellite facilities all over Collier County and
patting ourselves on the back.
I'm not saying that this location is -- it's this or nothing, but I do
think whatever we build and wherever we will build it, it has to be
connected to David Lawrence Center, and maybe another contractor,
if we wind up going in a different direction. But together, it creates a
cohesive approach to healthcare.
When I was the COO of Physicians Regional, I used to say, one
of our closest allies should be NCH because even though they're a
competitor, they should also be somebody that we cohesively work
with. At the time, I don't think we were doing it very well but, you
know, I commend NCH and Paul Hiltz and his team for not only
reaching out to Physicians Regional, but Lee Health. And you see
how much a rising tide lifts all boats.
But you know, Mr. Burgess, you know, some things I'd like you
to specifically address, and you can obviously all say whatever you
want, but some things that Ms. Hayes brought up that definitely is
worth -- you know, I want to hear the rebuttal or the confirmation as
the Uber rides. You know, you sit here and you start -- you start
adding those up and doing math and, you know, I want to know if
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you think it's funny math, or some people come with their own cars.
Not everybody's going to Uber everywhere.
You know, it's been brought up before -- and maybe it's not
something that's going to change any votes here, but when anybody
says, "Hey, I'm going to have monthly meetings with the
citizens" -- I'm not trying to throw rocks or spears, but I'm trying to
get to the center of integrity and thought.
And your rebuttal might be, well, I tried to have monthly
meetings, but they didn't want to have them or something. And I'm
not putting words in your mouth, but I'd like you to specifically
address that. So the Uber rides, the monthly meetings.
You did address the beds, but I went on record at the last
meeting saying three different speakers came up here and did a shell
game of the beds. Okay. We got a slide now that finally showed
clear math, but in some of the minds of commissioners here, we're
still sitting here going, okay, which is the real slide? So I'm hoping
you can either -- you know, confirm that.
And then anything else that you want to address. You know, I
think that, you know, this is the day where we're going to -- we're
going to make a decision, and hopefully we don't kick the can to an
18th or 19th meeting, sir.
But, you know, sir, those are some of the questions I have. I'd
like you to specifically address some of the things that Ms. Hayes
brought up and then anything that you made notes on.
MR. BURGESS: Absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity to be
able to address those. And I was trying to keep track, as you were, of
the items that were salient to make sure that we talked about.
In regards to transportation, your point is very well taken, that
the mathematics that were presented here today by Penelope are -- is
assuming that everybody is going to leave the center and is going to
need an Uber ride. So first of all, we've got many individuals that
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have family members or friends that come pick them up. So right off
the top, it's not going to be the number that was presented; however,
the number that she presented was $156,600, if I copied that down
correctly, and I think I did. We have built into the pro forma that for
the first year, we -- and successive years, but in the first year,
$141,000 is built into the pro forma specifically for transportation.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: How much? I'm sorry.
MR. BURGESS: $141,000. So even using her analysis and
building in 156,600 for every individual that would need to have
transportation -- which is not going to be the case -- we have built in
a very significant number to attend to that.
In regards to the meetings, we did start holding those meetings
after the Board of County Commissioners decided that they were
going to move forward with the project; that was in January. And we
have -- we've had one meeting.
At the initial meeting with the neighbors, we asked them how
regularly they wanted to get together, and their response was
quarterly. So we have our second quarterly meeting that's scheduled
for today. So I wanted to respond to that.
In regards to the discussion that was if they -- you know, if they
don't have any written pre-commitments from individuals pledging a
commitment to this initiative, we actually do already have pledges
and funds that have been raised for the central receiving facility in the
amount of $1.27 million. That's to help, and that was part of the
naming rights agreement for specific things in the central receiving
facility, which you're aware of, furniture, fixture, equipment, and that
can go for operations. So to speak for the fact -- and that's just very
recently that that was passed. So we do have an ability to rally the
community around supporting this initiative in addition to DLC.
In regards to the beds, I will simply reflect back on the slide that
I showed today, which is 33 permanent beds on the DLC Bathey
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Lane campus for children, and we'll have 87 new beds in the central
receiving facility, for 120. That's what's going to be for crisis care,
Baker Act, Marchman Act, adults and children available through
those locations.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can you address grant
availability? Because even though Ms. Sonntag said, you know, she
has no knowledge of if we put this in a different location -- and that's
not throwing a stone at her. She might not be the subject-matter
expert. Boy, I would sure hope you're the subject-matter expert on
how to get grant money.
And so I'd like to hear -- I mean, I know you addressed it, but
for the sake of a big, huge vote here of tens of millions of dollars, that
is a piece of the puzzle. I'd like to hear something with more meat on
the bone and not just, "Well, you heard somebody say a while ago
that if we built it next to the jail we'd be ineligible for a bunch of
grant money." Because I'm hearing it from both sides. I mean, I'm
appreciating what Commissioner McDaniel is trying to get to, and
then asking Ms. Sonntag may or may not be the subject-matter
expert. I would sure hope you're one of the subject-matter experts,
and maybe at the county staff we just don't happen to have somebody
that can cite ripple and line and, you know, everything about grants.
But I'd like to put a little bit more clarity on if we move the location,
we might be gypping ourselves out of millions and millions of dollars
of possible, you know, grant money or not.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, that's a big muscle
movement as part of the decision.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. And I understand. And I don't know
that there's anything in specific statute that would say that it could not
be on a jail campus. What I'm saying is the conversation that we had
with our local managing entity, which is the conduit through which
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grant dollars flow from the state, they were emphatic about the fact
that they would not support giving grant dollars to any provider that
would put a central receiving facility on a jail campus because of
stigma, and that would also -- that would take us back decades from
what we've been trying to do, which is to de-stigmatize,
decriminalize mental health, and that it would be -- it would be going
180 degrees from what the intention is in moving mental health
treatment forward in our country and within our state.
So they did not support -- and they have the right to be able to
dole those dollars out based on their receiving applications for
support.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, I'll tell you what I
heard, and this will be at least my final statement for now, was
something more in the middle. It was -- and I wish I had a name and
a date of the meeting and whatnot, and maybe you'll say I heard it
wrong. But what I had heard was that we would be far less
competitive, not that we couldn't get the dollars, but that we sure
wouldn't be high on a priority list, possibly, for different grant
dollars. So, you know, the answer might be somewhere in the
middle.
But I wanted to hear you restate it with a little more clarity of
how you feel it is. I don't think it's the one and only decision that's
going to sway this, but, you know, we're trying to sort of peel away --
MR. BURGESS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- different sort of ambiguities
here. That's all I have for right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Yovanovich, you had a couple
comments you wanted to make?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes. Thank you. Rich Yovanovich, for
the record, on behalf of the David Lawrence Center.
Specifically with regard to the beds, I think the slide we
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showed -- and I'll admit it was a little less clean when we presented it
a couple of weeks ago. But there's no question that there's going to
be a total of 120 beds, 33 of which contractually we're now obligated
to maintain at the David Lawrence Center, and 87 new beds in this
central receiving facility.
I think what's being lost in the conversation is this is a central
receiving facility. What does that mean? It means that when
someone is having an episode, they are specifically taken to this
facility. So if they're an adult, wherever this facility is located,
they're going to the central receiving facility.
So to somehow penalize David Lawrence Center for being next
door because adults are now going to go to the right instead of to the
left seems to be an unfair penalty to David Lawrence Center, because
they're going somewhere else, regardless, when the central receiving
facility is being built, but David Lawrence Center is saying there's a
tremendous shortfall in taking care of people less than 18 years old.
We're going to make up for that by keeping those 33 beds.
So for the good of the group, the good of our community, we're
going to have 120 beds to deal with Marchman Act and Baker Act,
and that's what the voters wanted, 120 beds. You're getting 120 beds
for $56 million.
It's not the David Lawrence Center's fault that construction costs
have increased. Everybody's construction costs have increased. This
is -- this is -- the cost of these beds is less than the average to build
new beds throughout the country.
It is the right location. That location was decided. It's time to
build the building, and it's time to provide the services.
And with that, I think it's -- that's all I wanted to add to Scott's
presentation. And we've -- I think we've addressed the comments
from the community. We just want to make sure that the facts are on
the record, and we believe the facts are now on the record, and any
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other questions you have of David Lawrence Center, we're here.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I have a couple for
Ms. Patterson. I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit. But
there's been some concern that perhaps this project has not been well
thought out in terms of the scope of the project, in terms of the
location. We did have a unanimous vote to place this on this
particular location back, I guess it was 2021. Whenever that vote
was; I've got the transcript here. It was a unanimous vote to do that.
But the issue of the planning for this, I know we had the
committee that met for quite some time. I know we had a
tremendous amount of input over the years. But can you give me just
a little quick summary of how we kind of got to where we are in
terms of the process? We've had 19 meetings. And I'm putting you
on the spot because I didn't tell you I was going to ask you this, but I
just want to get an understanding of, you know, this has not been, in
my recollection, something that has not been well thought out. But I
want to -- I want to hear this from either you or someone that you
know that can answer that.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. I'll start, and then if any of our
Facilities folks, Mr. Dunnuck or Mr. DeLony, want to come up
because they have been involved since we started the process to
actually engineer the site and deal with the building.
So obviously, there -- years ago now, predating this board, there
was a siting committee that looked at sites all over. And for reasons
that were explained later, the several top sites that were listed in that
study were not selected part to do with some of the things that have
been discussed today about concerns about the central receiving
facility being on campus, but secondly is the synergy of placing the
central receiving facility next to existing -- or adjacent to the existing
David Lawrence Center.
With that, we proceeded on to the process of getting that
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property properly zoned, hearing the concerns of the neighborhood.
So there was an extensive land use -- oh, there's a -- there's actually a
slide that addresses this -- but an extensive land-use process that we
went through so that -- as you described, we have spent 18-ish, 19
meetings talking about everything to do with this project.
Once that site was decided, the central -- the David Lawrence
site for the central receiving facility, this has been in the county's
wheelhouse for the planning as well as then the site engineering and
then the now moving on to the construction.
So yes, it's been a partnership. There's been a lot of thought that
has gone into it for this site and for the building itself but also that it
had to meet the requirements of the site, so the building has to be able
to fit based on how the site was zoned, and that's the discussions.
Also, other requirements. Security, a wall, how people are going to
be taken into the facility were all things that have been part of this
process.
I'm looking at Mr. DeLony if he wants to add, because he's the
lead for county on this property.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This may be a question for
Mr. Burgess or somebody on the David Lawrence Center team there.
The actual design of the building --
MR. BURGESS: Yep.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- I'm assuming that there was
some expertise applied to coming up with the design; that we're not
just building a building out of the dark. Can you --
MR. BURGESS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- give me a bit of information as
to how we got to the footprint and the building that we have?
MR. BURGESS: Sure. Yeah. As Ms. Patterson was alluding
to, this has been a completely collaborative process between the
county that is the lead -- it is their construction management teams,
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that is -- has the oversight over this project.
In addition to the county, obviously David Lawrence Center
having had expertise across all these decades in behavioral health, in
addition brought to the team through contract from the county
directly who was selected by the county was RG Architects, which
has a specialty in these particular types of buildings, behavioral
health buildings. They have a specialist on their team that they
brought in as an additional consultant just on behavioral health as
well.
So we have -- and in addition to that, the construction team that
was selected is DeAngeles Diamond who has built behavior health
facilities not only in Florida but other states.
So we really -- I want to commend the county for bringing
together an amazing team of professionals who understand these
facilities well. They -- they understand the regulatory requirements.
They understand the unique design that is unique to these behavioral
health settings.
So all of those staff members have been meeting with great
regularity. Inclusive of that team is also the Collier County Sheriff's
Office who is at every meeting so that we can ensure the safety
standards that our community specifically would like to have is
addressed in this facility as well, so -- and these meetings have been
going on with great regularity for a very long time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. My questions are not for
you. It's Kristi Sonntag, please, if you don't mind.
MR. BURGESS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can you tell me what you do
for the county?
MS. SONNTAG: I'm the Community and Human Services
director for the county. I'm responsible for all federal and state
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entitlement and other grants from Department of Justice, DCF, a
variety of grants, and then I'm also responsible for social service
programs like to seniors and homeless.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, you know, I'm not
debating with Commissioner LoCastro with regard to who is a
subject expert one way or the other, and certainly Mr. Burgess is very
succinct with his request for grants with regard to mental health and
such. But that -- I just wanted -- I wanted the folks to know the
reason I asked you that question earlier on was from an independent
basis, to your knowledge, there's no prohibitions with regard to grant
funding that could come for this facility if it were not located in this
spot?
MS. SONNTAG: No, sir. I'm not aware of any.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And thank you.
MS. SONNTAG: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I certainly -- you know, I've
been participatory, I think, in all 19 meetings that we've had so far
with regard to this.
The planning is off the chart. The facility sounds like it's going
to be off the chart. I still am not in support of the -- of the
proposition that's in front of us.
From a planning standpoint, I had to bring several months -- last
year I had to bring minutes from a previous meeting to denote the
fact that we had -- the county had entered into a lease to operate the
facility but no performance measured operating agreement. And
then -- and they went, "Whoa." We didn't have an operating
agreement. We now have an operating agreement.
I'm dissatisfied with that. I cannot get happy with the
circumstances that are prevalent here today. I would rather we not
postpone this decision. I would rather we do something different. I
have said from the beginning this facility -- the facility needs to be
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here on campus, as was recommended before.
Here is a copy of that mental health plan that you talked about. I
did review this. There's a lot of really, really small print,
Mr. Burgess, but I couldn't find in here where it said that there were
limitations on the capacities to receive grants. That's why I asked
Kristi, and I asked you specifically.
I think we need to go out for an RFP for this operation no matter
what. I certainly, on behalf of the taxpayers of Collier County,
cannot accept a business plan that talks about -- even perceives on
losing a million dollars plus a year in perpetuity. I can't -- I can't
even conceive giving that consideration.
I think we need to take measures immediately. I think we need
to give direction to our current staff immediately to work with our
Sheriff's Department to enhance the facilities that we already have on
site to better care for our residents, better allow for our Sheriff's
Department to do their job, take these people -- treat these people
with respect, allow them to go through the process, have some kind
of programming in place.
I think our money is far better spent investing in Collier County
assets on campus where we have facilities; where we have a
transportation system already in place, big public bus system; where
we have a health department; where we have the court system in the
event that that's requisite as well.
I -- all of those things still add up to a no for me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I think when it comes to grants, I think we're all correct, but I
think I'm the most correct. I'm just going to say that.
I do believe that Ms. Sonntag is correct when she says she's not
aware. Being not aware doesn't mean a definite no. I do think when
I posed the question -- I wish I did have the transcript from whoever I
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met with. It's not a matter of yes or no. There are some things where
you just don't qualify, and nobody has said that here. If they were
certain of it, you'd have it in your binder.
What I believe is -- what I remember being told is that it's a
sliding scale, just like anything else. You know, our veterans nursing
home's a perfect example. It's not a yes or a no. It's a matter of
where you compete, and are you a high enough priority.
I don't think that changes any of the votes up here, but I think
we're all correct in some way, but I'm the most correct. I'm just
kidding.
Mental health isn't a profit-making business. How much do we
profit every year off of our parks? Even our Paradise Coast Sports
Complex, which costs four times the amount of this, we have a lot of
numbers in parentheses, but it provides a service.
When I think of your -- and, you know, I hate that it was said
somewhere the amount of customers. These are patients, okay.
These aren't customers. You know, this is -- this is a -- and it might
be semantics or whatever, but having worked in healthcare and
whatnot, it does bother me when it said that.
But regardless of that, most of the people that you see don't live
in Port Royal. They don't get picked up by a Bentley. So you're -- it
is going to cost money if this county wants to have better mental
health and more services. You know, we have, I think, a member
back there, Matt Holiday from NCH, and we sing NCH's praises, but
one of the things NCH made a command decision on was, you know,
not providing significant health services.
When I was at Physicians Regional, I was speaking till the cows
came home saying, "Why don't we add that as a service line?"
And you know what the answer was? "Because it doesn't make
us money. It costs us too much money, and then the liability is huge.
We'd rather turn that area into a -- you know, a wound care center,"
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which is a high profit margin.
So I'm not as bothered -- I would expect the numbers to be
negative, but I would also think with your 56 years of experience of
DLC that if this facility was built, it would fan the flames that much
more of people who would be interested, and new money coming in
because you have an expanded services -- service, and you would
have a whole new brochure, you know, asking for money. So I'll just
put that there.
I have a question for Ms. Patterson. You've been in all the big
meetings, maybe not 19, but lately trying to get this here. My
question, similar to, like, Ms. Hayes' presentation, which is, you
know, just brass tacks. Are we really that far away right now in an
agreement between the county and David Lawrence Center
that -- you know, we approve things here that are of this magnitude
that still have loose ends, that still have things to tighten up. And
yeah, at times we totally shoot it down if it's -- we're miles apart and
we're taking great risk.
But, you know, in your estimation, are we really that far apart?
And before you answer that, I'll then just add -- so that I don't have to
talk anymore -- the Willough and this is apples and chairs, okay. So
if we truly want to have a state-of-the-art facility that the taxpayers
voted for, yeah, we could have got it for 23 million with a lot more
beds if we would have built it when we had the money and it was
approved and we didn't kick the can, but that train left the station.
But, you know, taking over a facility that's aged, not set up the
way that we want and all that, it still gives us the service line. But
make no mistake, it's not a matter of, well, we're not going to do it
over at DLC, so we'll head over to the Willough, get keys to the
facility. And I think you probably would echo some of that, that
there's some long poles in the tent with the Willough or another
agency.
June 10, 2025
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But having said that, let me turn the floor over to you. How far
apart do you really think that we are and any other comments that
you want to make since you've really been our senior representation
and been trying to, you know, bring this together, whether it's David
Lawrence Center or another location?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
So we have provided an operating agreement that we negotiated
in good faith and brings us the protections to the county that we were
seeking. How far apart we are is really a decision for this board on
whatever risk they feel comfortable taking, having been provided all
of the information now that's been requested about the pro forma, the
number of beds, potential shortfalls, and what the cures are for those
things if they should happen.
None of us have the ability to know what might happen
tomorrow, let alone into the distant future. But both sides, I believe,
have done a good job at providing that information so that this Board
can make an informed decision.
Regarding the Willough, what that would provide, if it were an
option, would be immediate beds with the ability to eventually plan
for a new facility or a greatly -- a greatly reconstructed facility.
So it's still an interim solution. Now, whether that interim is
five or 10 years and whether that facility will even be
available -- they may close on that facility, and it's off the table. So
any -- any built facility that's in the area, if we were to buy another
building, if one was provided, chances are it's not going to be
something that's perfect forever but would provide something that we
would use to deal with the immediate issues and then do the planning
to look at what it would look like in the future.
The David Lawrence site provides that to be state of the art from
day one, and so those are the decisions that this board is weighing.
It's not -- it's really a decision for all of you, having experienced some
June 10, 2025
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or all of these 19 meetings, to say, considering all of this, have we
adequately protected the taxpayers as well as tried to move forward a
project that's very important to the Collier County voters? And that's
as simple as it is.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
You know, I've been getting a lot of contact from friends on
both sides of this fence, you know, telling me the way I should think
or not think. And, you know -- and a lot of people just keep
regurgitating talking points and what-ifs. You know, I went through
my life not depending on what-ifs because sometimes they never
equate to anything in the future.
I can probably speak to this. I'm probably the only person here
that's ever -- on this board that's ever had to take a Marchman or a
Baker Act in a ride in a patrol car while they're in crises across the
county to get them help. I want everybody to understand, not
everybody that's a Baker Act or a Marchman has a crime connected
to it. The only crime is that they have an illness.
And even in the state statute, every time I've had to take a
person in under that provision that is provided to me by the State of
Florida as a Marchman Act or a Baker Act, they're referred to as a
victim. We say "the victim" and then the name. Everywhere in that
report, everywhere in the paperwork, they're referred to as a victim.
And a percentage are just victims. They've not committed any
crime. Like I said, the only thing is that they have some sort of
mental stability [sic] or an alcohol dependency where the families,
loved ones, friends cannot take it anymore or cannot care for these
people.
That's when the state kicks in and gives us the ability, deputies,
police officers, EMS, firefighters, doctors, some nurses to enact a
Baker Act or a Marchman Act.
June 10, 2025
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And if you've ever driven in a car 30 miles to get to the David
Lawrence Center from one end of the county to the other with an
adult individual kicking the window -- trying to kick the window out,
trying to kick the cage out, and then when you get there, you've got
another 30- or 45-minute wait -- because they have a very small
receiving facility with only three beds -- to get through that door, you
sit in that parking lot with that individual in that condition.
That then being said, you get them the help they need. And the
sad part is we're talking about having things near the jail, improving
the jail, creating space in jail. Listen, the reality is that jails are
meant for criminals, not victims, and the percentage have never
committed a crime, and that's where you want to take them.
This can's been kicked down the road. David Lawrence didn't
create the $56 million problem we're all looking at. It is the fact that
government failed to respond and get something done when the time
was asked to get it done. That's why this price tag is where it is
today.
And if you look at what David Lawrence's -- they're actually
putting it out because they're agreeing to everything this county and
our attorneys and this contract that we've asked for, especially
safeguards.
And I will answer the question I think somebody presented,
would we be out the $56 million if we drop and just say, "No, we're
not going to fund you because you're a shortfall"? No, it's in there.
It's written in the contract they have to pay us back in full, and I think
with extras that have been incurred. So that's in the contract.
But I just want to make sure we understand that that -- what
we're looking at, either having a state-of-the-art facility that the
people of Collier County deserves, and now's the time to build
it -- because it's not going to get any cheaper. That's just a fact. And
I can what-if it. What if I get a building here?
June 10, 2025
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We looked -- I was all excited when I heard about the Willough,
but then it didn't come to fruition. Somebody else has money on it.
So I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I'm going to wait around
and the deal's going to fall through. That's a what-if, and that's not
what I'm about. I'm sorry.
But Collier County deserves it. The juveniles in Collier County
deserve it. We don't have the ability to keep our juveniles within our
own county when they're in crisis. There's times they've had to be
shipped out to Fort Myers, Hendry County, and that's a burden on a
parent with a 14-year-old or 13-year-old that's in crisis where they've
got to drive two counties or a county away just to visit their child
while they're getting treatment. That's unfair to the citizens of Collier
County. It's unfair to the parents of Collier County.
And by this contract and the way the numbers add up now,
finally we're going to gain beds for these juveniles to be treated right
here in Collier County.
So, listen, I'm done kicking the can down the road. I think this
is probably our best option and probably -- is probably going to be
the best option that we even could find in the future. So, I have to
support this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to make a
motion just to get this on the floor. I think we've beaten this horse a
bit here today and over the last 18 or 19 meetings.
We have a staff recommendation. I want to make sure I get the
right motion, so I'm going to read the motion. If the Board wishes to
proceed with the construction of this facility, the following actions
are required: Approve and execute a fourth amendment to the vacant
land contract with David Lawrence Mental Health Center, Inc., to
modify the Collier County standard form long-term lease and include
an operating agreement exhibit governing behavioral health center
operations and approve and execute an amendment to the naming
June 10, 2025
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rights agreement to clarify use of funds acquired with the naming
rights.
Ms. Patterson, is that the correct -- if we want to approve this
going forward, is that the correct motion?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to make that
motion.
Commissioner LoCastro, you're lit up --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- so we're on the motion if there's
a second. Right now we don't a second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I second it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, one of the things that
I'll -- that I wanted to say is I'd rather have a few loose ends but be
negotiating and working in a team with David Lawrence Center than
some unknown third party who has yet to be determined.
We've spent way more money than this on things that -- like -- I
like what Commissioner Kowal had to say. There's always what-ifs.
You know, we sat here at our last meeting saying, you know, if we
had to build the sports complex all over again, we would put in more
grass fields and baseball fields.
So there's always going to be something like that, but I'm
looking at the bigger picture, as one -- another person said here. And
I think we had our chance to sort of do all these tiny little things at 19
different meetings, but I think we're sitting in front of us here with an
opportunity to tighten up this plan, but I think we already have
something that's headed in a great direction.
Don't forget, David Lawrence Center, their representations on
this as well. So in the end, I don't think they want to crash and burn
because they were short, you know, $50,000 for furniture or that sort
of thing. So I think some things have been thrown around that negate
June 10, 2025
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some other things.
So I was going to second the motion. It sounded like
Commissioner Kowal already did. But just, you know, as
Commissioner Saunders says sometimes, just to count heads and
either move forward or not, you know, I'm going to be in support of
this, but it doesn't mean I'm going to take my eyes off of this plan.
We're going to have to move forward and make sure that, you know,
if we need grass fields, we measure twice and cut once, and that we
don't sit here and just kick the can or vote on something and then
look the other way and hope it all turns out great.
But I'd rather work as a partner with the David Lawrence Center
on this location and fine-tune it as we move forward. We haven't
even put a shovel in the ground, and that's why I'm going to support it
as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm not going -- forgive
me for stuttering, but I can count noses, so we're -- you know what,
I'm going to say my piece.
There are other operators that are willing to operate a facility for
us. I have spoken to two. And out of respect for DLC -- and I shared
this with Mr. Burgess yesterday. I have an enormous amount of
respect for DLC. They have done an enormous amount, for our
community, of good over the years.
I don't like this transaction. I think we haven't informed
ourselves sufficiently to vote on this just simply because we never
put this project out for an RFP. We don't even know what other
operators that may be out there that might be interested in coming
over and working with us.
I'm not talking about kicking this can down the road. I'm talking
about taking immediate action on known circumstances and known
facilities that we, in fact, have available to us today to work on the
June 10, 2025
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circumstances of the crisis that, in fact, exists.
But be that as it may, I promised that I will work with our board,
our staff, and David Lawrence Center to make this as successful of a
facility as it possibly can be.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One last comment, then I'll call for
the vote.
I want to congratulate our staff, the Manager, County Attorney's
Office, Ms. Ashkar. There were a couple issues that needed to be
resolved. The bed count was one. The commitment for ongoing
obligations by the County Commission going forward for -- due to
the shortfalls or potential shortfalls, that's been resolved. I've
reviewed the contract. I think we've got an excellent partnership with
David Lawrence Center.
And so all those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It passes 3-2. And that's the
motion to cover all of the agreements as I outlined in the motion.
We're going to take a break till 1:15 for lunch.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:16 p.m. to 1:14 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
If you'll take your seats, we will resume the commission meeting. I
believe we're on Item 11B.
Item #11B
June 10, 2025
Page 101
A PRESENTATION FROM CONSULTING FIRM MISSION
CRITICAL PARTNERS RELATED TO UPGRADE STRATEGIES
FOR THE P25 800 MHZ PUBLIC SAFETY RADIO SYSTEM.
(NATHANIELHINKLE, MGR -TELECOMMUNICATIONS) -
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE PRESENTATION WITH DIRECTION
TO STAFF BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. This is our 1 o'clock time-certain.
Item 11B is a recommendation to accept a presentation from
consulting firm Mission Critical Partners related to upgrade strategies
for the P25 800 megahertz public safety radio system.
Mr. Nathaniel Hinkle, manager of Telecommunications, is here
to begin the presentation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good afternoon.
MR. HINKLE: Good afternoon, Commissioners, County
Manager. Thank you for allowing me to speak to you today. I
greatly appreciate the audience.
I'm Nathan Hinkle. I'm the telecommunications manager here
for the past three years. During this time, I've faced immense
challenges keeping our current radio system operational. The system
suffers from frequent outages, significant design flaws, including
multiple single points of failure and a lack of timely alarm
notification. In my 29-year career as a telecommunication -- I'm
sorry -- telecommunications professional, I've never encountered a
system with such persistent fundamental issues. These problems not
only compromise system reliability but directly impact our public
safety and emergency response.
Concerns about Collier County's public safety radio system were
first brought to the attention of the Board on February the 6th of
2024. I clearly stated then that the current radio system does not
June 10, 2025
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meet public safety communication standards and presents a first
responder safety issue. Again, at the BCC meeting on February the
13th, the Agenda Item 11B, where the commissioners greatly
approved the hiring of a consultant to examine the radio system, we
moved on that.
Today I restate what I said then. Collier County's current 800
megahertz P25 radio system no longer meets the communication
needs of our emergency services. It has been proven to be
insufficient in supporting daily operations and disaster response, and
it does not integrate effectively with the technology that we use in our
911 dispatch center. This is a serious concern for public safety.
I literally have zero confidence in our public safety system on a
daily basis or an emergency basis.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Could you tell us what you really
think?
MR. HINKLE: Yeah. I just want to make sure I'm clear. Yeah.
And, again, this is very difficult for me. After three years, I
never expected to be in this position. I've never dealt with a system
like this before with so many problems.
At the request of the Board, we did bring in a professional
consultant to evaluate the current system and recommend a path
forward, and I think that's the key here is the path forward, how we're
going to correct the current problems along with getting what we
need in the very near future here.
At this time, I'd like to introduce Nick Falgiatore with Mission
Critical Partners to present their findings, and we can answer any
further questions after that. I'll have the speakers from our first
responders then reply.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. HINKLE: Thank you.
MR. FALGIATORE: Good afternoon. Good afternoon,
June 10, 2025
Page 103
Commissioners. I appreciate the time and invitation to be here today.
My name's Nick Falgiatore. I'm a consultant with Mission Critical
Partners. My company has been in the public safety consulting space
now for 16 years. I've been a practicing public safety consultant
specializing in wireless communications for the last 18 years,
registered professional engineer in the state of Florida, and I've
worked with well over 100 communications systems similar to the
one that the first responders operate here in Broward County -- or,
I'm sorry, in Collier County.
I would note that I've been spending the last 10 years also
working across the highway in Broward County where I've been
supporting their new communications system for the last 10 years and
also a system up in the Panhandle for Okaloosa County. And the
reason I call those out are one of those systems is a Motorola system.
The other one is an L3 Harris system. These are the two main
players within the space.
The system you're using today is an L3 Harris system. We've
worked very closely with both vendors and, you know, I just want to
assure you in everything that we present here today, it comes purely
from a case of understanding what the county's unique requirements
and situation is, and that we have absolutely no bias when it comes to
who the communications equipment provider is.
So before we step into the meat and potatoes of this
presentation, I want to take a brief moment just to give you an
executive summary to summarize the key findings that we had.
And the study that we conducted was a comprehensive
top-to-bottom evaluation of communications within the county. We
wanted to fully actually understand the situation. We met with every
first responder agency within the county. We conducted in-person
meetings to solicit feedback to understand what the strengths and
weaknesses of your existing platform has been, what the needs are for
June 10, 2025
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your communications moving forward, how the system has either
failed to meet your -- their communications needs or has been -- what
areas it's been successful.
We conducted web-based surveys to solicit additional feedback.
We surveyed every piece of infrastructure within the system. We
documented condition and age and inventories and made sure that we
had a complete holistic view of every element that makes up the
communications system today.
Based on that assessment and the input that we received, what
we found is the existing communications system is not meeting
public safety needs because it is not meeting public safety reliability.
We'll go into details about what -- about why we came to that
conclusion shortly.
We've seen challenges that were documented by the county with
regard to how the system is supported and maintained to maintain it
at a public -- level of public safety reliability. And what we also
documented is that the system design itself needs improvements to
the amount of coverage it provides, the amount of capacity that the
system provides in order to meet your current and growing needs as
the community here continues to expand.
There's been significant investments to date in portions of the
radio infrastructure with Motorola equipment. The county has a very
unique arrangement where you have Motorola infrastructure
operating hand in hand with L3 Harris equipment, and there's been a
growing amount of infrastructure placed on the Motorola side that
has allowed the systems to interface together and provide certain
features and functions through that equipment.
As Nathan mentioned, the Sheriff's Office has also invested in a
number of applications in the dispatch center on the Motorola
platform, and there are some opportunities here for integration for
allowing improved capability for the systems to work together.
June 10, 2025
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Based on all of the information that we gathered -- and again,
we'll go into the details here in a minute -- what MCP is
recommending is a two-system solution whereby public safety and
the user buildout on a Motorola platform and benefit from the
capabilities that that system would provide while continuing to
maintain the existing L3 Harris system to be used for school board
and other nonpublic safety users. This would allow the benefits of
both technologies to be leveraged. It would provide some inherent
backup capabilities between the systems. It would allow the school
board to continue to leverage the investment that they've made on
their school radio system, which leverages the county's L3 Harris
equipment, and it would allow you to maintain and get the full value
out of the investment that you've already made in L3 Harris
equipment without taking that equipment and putting it on a shelf.
So again, jumping into the meat of the presentation here, a little
bit about MCP. As I mentioned, I have 18 years of experience
supporting public safety communications. I'm the manager of our
wireless practice here at MCP. We have 16 full-time consultants that
specialize in public safety radio communications. And again, as a
company, we have an extremely strong commitment to vendor
neutrality.
This is at the core of what we do. Because we have no vendor
affiliation, our goal is to provide our clients the absolute best
expertise that they can receive regarding what technology platforms
will meet their needs.
And a little bit about MCP, so we're a very broad company. We
have over 200 employees. In addition to land mobile radio, we also
support NextGen 911, public safety facilities, justice management
technology, data integration, and then IT networks and cybersecurity.
So our study focused on, first and foremost, documenting the
needs of all the users. We met with every public safety agency
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within the county. We met with all the other radio users, including
nonpublic safety users that are users on the same shared radio system
today. And again, we focused on user interviews, making sure that
everything we recommend ties back to requirements that we heard
from your first responder community.
Nothing in here is inserted as MCP's opinion. Everything is
based on feedback that we received from the user community.
A little bit of background on your communications system, the
system in its current platforms began its evolution in 1995 on the
800 megahertz EDACS platform, which was provided by the
predecessor to L3 Harris at the time.
Communications International, who is the contract supplier, who
you hold a contract with, is an L3 Harris channel partner. They
started supporting the system shortly after the system's inception.
There were upgrades to the system over time to get to its current
place. It underwent an upgrade in the 2005 time frame, and then
more recently, the current system was contracted in 2015, which
included the migration to P25 and the addition of several radio sites.
The county's currently undergoing a core upgrade. There was a
secondary redundant core added in 2023 that provides some
additional redundancy across the system, and the county's currently
undergoing a number of repeater upgrades to upgrade firmware and
some of the system components.
So the system today has 10 radio sites, each with 12 channels.
That speaks to how many -- how many radio towers you have, the
level of coverage the system provides, and how much capacity the
system supports.
We'll go over this fairly briefly, but 24 consoles is -- that's the
equipment that resides at the dispatch center that your public safety
dispatchers utilize. And the system has a total of 11,544 radio users.
Those are the hand-held portable radios and mobile radios. Total
June 10, 2025
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fleet population is at that number.
Here's a map that shows you where the towers are located. You
can see it might be a little hard to see up here. There's a little marker.
Of course, the sites are more concentrated at the west where you have
a greater density of buildings. Generally, the way these radio sites
work are the closer you are to a radio site, the more in-building
penetration that you have. If you have a radio that only needs to
operate outdoors, then you don't need your radio sites as densely
spaced. So that's why you have much more radio sites out in the west
than you do in the east.
The radio sites are connected by a microwave network. These
are -- this is the technology that provides data communication
between the different radio sites, and this is a topology that shows the
way that the radio sites are connected.
As you can see here, this speaks to one of the resiliency
challenges of the system where there is not a loop protected system
meaning that you have a single connection between these sites which
creates a major single point of failure. And we'll talk about those in a
moment here. But this -- when you look at this map, this can help
explain why the system is facing some of the challenges that it is.
So a little more detail on the Motorola integration. So the user
community has been largely replacing their L3 Harris radios with
Motorola APX NEX platform radio. The main feature that has been
advantageous with these radios are these radios enable users to switch
back and forth between the radio system and between commercial
broadband in the radio itself. So the radio can take that audio
transmission and allow that traffic. If the radio system coverage is an
area where it's not adequate, the traffic will go out over Verizon or,
you know, a cellular carrier and will be able to maintain that
communication over commercial broadband.
The Sheriff's Office has invested in a Motorola core system.
June 10, 2025
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Their goal here was to be able to support improved redundancy and
provide backup capabilities and to host some of those services on
those Motorola radios that they've been buying. They invested in a
Motorola core, which is the same core that would support a larger
deployment of radio sites.
They have connected that core back to the primary L3 Harris
core to provide connectivity to allow data to transport between the
calls, and that enables some of those features to work properly.
And then the Sheriff's Office has purchased a radio site that is
used for backup services to support in the event of a failure of the
primary system.
So what were some of the key study findings that we found?
Well, system reliability was the major, major concern that we heard.
Throughout talking to the users and throughout the system's history,
we've heard of many instances where the system has experienced a
failure that has impaired communications. These situations have
occurred during major disasters, during hurricanes which,
understandably, the system is stressed during major disasters. It's
also the time that these communications systems are needed the most.
There's -- from our experience, from the time that we've been
involved, we've seen outages occurring from a smaller scale to a
larger scale. About every month or so, there seems to be another
user-impacting incident.
And when we look at what defines a system is public safety
grade, and we talk about single points of failure. What that means is
that in order for a system to be public safety grade, our expectation is
that any one component in the system can break. Things break.
There's moving parts. You know, we expect a part to go bad from
time to time.
If the system is designed without a single point of failure, that
means that something can break, and there will be absolutely no
June 10, 2025
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impact to users in the field. Their experience with what they're using
the system for will not change, because you have redundant
components, you have resiliency, the backup takes over, and there is
no impact to user operations.
The system today has many single points of failure, especially
on that backhaul network, the connectivity between radio sites, such
that when a failure occurs, there are sites that go off the air. There's
an impact to the user experience on the system. And as Nathan
mentioned, this is the system that first responders are relying on
where you typically will measure acceptable outages in the time of
seconds per year, not minutes or hours of downtime. And this has
been a very regular experience for the first responder community.
In addition, during our interviews, we identified -- the user
community identified areas where there is coverage,
that -- improvements that are needed. We also found that based on
the analysis of system capacity, that there's improvements that are
needed to the amount of capacity system could carry. That's the
amount of simultaneous traffic. And what happens is when the
system gets overloaded, the users go to push-to-talk on their radio,
and they get a busy, and they have to wait for a resource in the
system to become available.
And we found the system, based on day-to-day usage, it's at its
limit today, and that if you have major incidents, as the county has
experienced on a number of occasions, the system will go into a state
where many calls are placed in this busy queue. So that's indicative
of the system needing improvements and increases in the channel
count.
We also found the sites need significant improvements to
grounding and backup power systems so that the equipment can be
better protected from lightning strikes so that it can continue to
operate in a more reliable fashion, provide consistent and available
June 10, 2025
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backup power in the event of commercial outages.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Nick, what is swatting?
MR. FALGIATORE: Swatting? So swatting is an incident
where, say, an individual makes a false police report saying there's
some major activity that requires a SWAT team response. Maybe
calling in a bomb threat or some sort of major activity like that. And
it is a situation -- I understand that the county had an experience with
this where there was a swatting event that caused a major law
enforcement/fire response, and as a result, the system became
overloaded during that example.
That's an example of a case where luckily there was not a real
emergency, but it certainly gives you the indication if during a
non-real emergency, if the system became overloaded and there was
a high number of busies, that a major similar level actual emergency
would similarly tax the system.
This map shows several things on here. What you see in the
green and yellow background is computer modeling showing what
we predicted as areas where there are -- there is weaker radio
coverage. The areas in green show generally good in-building
coverage. The areas in yellow show where there is -- where there's
not reliable in-building coverage.
And when we've conducted our user interviews, we ask the users
to tell us exactly where all those user areas were where coverage is
inadequate on the radio system. And all those areas in those white
polygons you see are areas that were called out to us as being areas
that need improved coverage, that there's unreliable coverage today.
And as we can expect, it's in a lot of these areas where you've
experienced growth, new housing communities, areas where the
county is expanding, and you're having a greater demand for
in-building communications.
So some of the systems-support challenges, this was
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documented, has been well documented by the county. This
information was provided to us when we conducted the study. And it
details what the county's experience has been supporting the existing
system. Things from prolonged outages to lack of direction for
improvements, core upgrade planning, delays in problem
identification, mis-notifications from the NOC, inaccurate as-built
documentation. It's just various high-level problems that the county's
experienced in its ability to maintain the radio system.
One of the challenges that the county's experienced is the
contract for the system is with Communications International, which
is the more local provider, but it's created a challenge from getting
support directly from the equipment manufacturer, L3 Harris. So
they've had this challenge where they don't always necessarily have
access to all the resources directly when they've experienced some of
these problems.
We put together a list of what we called out as some of the
major challenges that the system has faced. I would say the county
has a document. I think it's now up to 35 pages of incidents that
they've experienced that they've been documenting every time they
have a support challenge with the system. And we called out a
couple of the high-level ones that were more significant, resulting in
larger system-wide impacts.
We can see, just based on the timeline, every month to every
few months there seems to be another event that the county has
experienced. These have gone up through this year. There's already
been a couple of incidents. Again, one in April resulting in site
outages. One in March resulting in a more significant -- I believe that
one was a system-wide outage that lasted approximately 25 minutes.
But again, we talk about single points of failure. Because the
system has single points of failure, things can go wrong. There can
be issues. But the expectation for a public safety system is not that
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they would be user impacting. These have all been user impacting
events that have reduced coverage or resulted in some sort of
impaired ability to communicate.
So based on the requirements -- what we documented are what
we would feel are the improvements that are necessary for the radio
system. The first ones that we documented improved coverage,
particularly in the areas of new development. It's going to be those
areas that we called out as weak coverage on those coverage maps.
Improving system reliability through improvements to the
backhaul network and system design. Improving site reliability
through improvements to site grounding, backup power systems, and
alarming. Improving -- or increasing system capacity to support
future growth, surge usage, increased interoperability, and increased
data. Providing integration with PremierOne CAD,
CommandCentral Aware, and APX NEXT radios. We'll talk about
what that means in a second.
Addressing some of the audio integration challenges between
the L3 Harris and Motorola cores and then providing more effective
backup capabilities.
So within our analysis, we looked at really two main options
here: That we have -- upgrade the existing L3 Harris system or
installing a new Motorola system. These are -- these are the main
options that you have available to you.
And Option 1, considerations for the L3 Harris equipment, you
know, the big benefit here, yes, you have the system in place today,
there's an existing platform in place today, and there's been a number
of budget -- of upgrades to that system to improve reliability that
have been budgeted. More recently adding the second VIDA core,
that's the core brain of the system, and upgrading site routers.
The MASTR V repeaters, these are -- the repeater is the biggest
building block of your radio system. It's the single biggest cost, and
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it is the single most prevalent component that you will have. That
equipment is approximately six years old based on when the system
was deployed. It has about nine years of useful life remaining in it.
We do note that there's been a long list of performance issues
that have -- that have been identified that have not been able to be
addressed to date. And the county is actively working on an updated
procurement that would go out for a rebid for maintenance services to
continue to support the system.
Some of the challenge out there, there's only one other certified
L3 Harris maintenance provider within the state. There -- that's
Williams Communications. They're based in Tallahassee. They
aren't in the market.
There's another provider that services the Miami-Dade system,
but there's not another maintenance provider within the area other
than Communications International that's an established L3 Harris
channel partner that could support the system.
One of the challenges here, too, is -- I talked about those
repeaters before, the Harris MASTR Vs. Harris has produced a new
platform called Two47 repeater. This is their new next generation
piece of equipment. It was just released within the last year or two.
The MASTR V station was first released in 2008, I believe, is when
that piece of equipment first came out. So well over 20 years -- or
close to 20 years into its life cycle, there's now been a replacement
that has been identified.
The new Two47 bay station is not a plug-and-play replacement
to be able to expand the existing system, meaning that if you were to
expand your system with L3 Harris and add additional channels and
add additional sites, for most of the system, the main component, the
core simulcast sites, you cannot use the new equipment. You would
have to buy the old MASTR V stations to make it compatible with
your existing system.
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And based on that, that means that that equipment -- you're
probably looking at about 10 years from now that you'll be faced with
another major upgrade and be needing to replace those MASTR V
stations. That's not a published date. That's simply based on
timelines that we've seen in the past for these types of -- these types
of components. But just have that understanding that if you did
upgrade the L3 Harris system, you would either have to replace all
the repeaters and be looking at a very substantial investment, or you'd
have to buy equipment that you're looking at a shorter life cycle to be
able to support.
With Motorola, you have some components in place based on
the investment that the Sheriff's Office has made so far. You have
the ability to leverage the investment capabilities that the users have
made in the Motorola radios and be able to benefit from more -- the
features that those provide. And we'll talk a little bit about
integrations with PremierOne CAD, CommandCentral, and APX
NEXT on the next slide.
The largest user agency, the Sheriff's Office, has invested in
Motorola infrastructure, again, both in radio infrastructure and in
applications at the dispatch center. And then Motorola has a service
shop located in Lee County. They've committed that they would
open a shop in Collier County, and public safety agencies from when
we conducted our study provided a great deal of feedback in support
for moving toward a Motorola platform.
So one of the key elements here when we look at the options
before you is integration at the dispatch center with different
applications. There's three different platforms that have the ability to
interact and interface to the radio system. You have your
PremierOne CAD. That's your computer-aided dispatch system. The
CAD system acts as the brain of a dispatch operation. It's
what -- when an emergency comes in, this is the software that says
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based on this emergency, these are the first responders that need to
get dispatched to this incident.
The CAD system supports interfaces to radio to enable seamless
operation for the users in your dispatch center which have to operate
on the CAD system and the radio system.
L3 Harris supports a common -- it's called an Application
Programming Interface, or API. They can publish a standard that
says these are the features that we support. And another CAD
vendor, if they choose, has the ability to write and be able to offer
those features.
Motorola, on the other hand, as the operator of both platforms,
has invested significantly in the ability to tie the applications together
and allow for a much more seamless level of integration. The best
example I could give you is it's kind of like taking an Apple phone
and an Apple watch. Apple invests a lot of time in making sure that
their devices and their applications work well together, that they
support a very large number of features, as opposed to trying to take
an Apple watch with an Android phone. So that's the big tradeoff.
What we did is, in order to solicit feedback, is we had both
vendors present to the user community and invited the users to be
able to see what features and functions both L3 Harris and Motorola
had on their roadmaps. And the feedback that we received from
those presentations were these -- the level of application integration
with PremierOne CAD, with Command Central, which is more of an
ability to tie data and other resources in to be able to improve
situational awareness, these applications, the ability to integrate and
provide the features that Motorola can between their different
applications, was something that was very highly desired in a way
that cannot be achieved with the standard API that's published from
L3 Harris for these different platforms.
The APX Next radios, I mentioned the users are the ones that
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have been investing in this equipment. There's features that are not
able to be supported through those radios to tie them into the radio
system. That would be enabled if it were a Motorola infrastructure.
So recommendations: So we recognize from our side the
challenges that the county is faced with the existing platform and
some of the benefits that a Motorola system would be able to provide
in terms of application integration.
And then we note the Sheriff's Office has invested in this
Motorola equipment and including radio infrastructure.
We did, from our user interviews, hear near unanimous support
from the public safety community for this direction. I'm sure they'll
voice their opinions here today.
And then everything we've seen is that the data is indicative of
the current communications system not meeting public safety needs
today.
So the existing system, all system hardware based on current
upgrades will be up to date for a period of six to eight years. The
nonpublic safety users that are not the ones that put their lives on the
line every day did not voice significant concerns. The big difference
there is if the communications system fails, they're not the ones that
are putting their lives on the line. They can live with an outage, make
a phone call, be able to wait for the system to be restored. They don't
have those critical needs.
The school board has invested over $15 million in their school
radio system which relies on the county's L3 Harris radio system
today. It leverages the radio sites, and it is expanded through radio
sites they've purchased at their schools that allow that system to be
integrated.
So what we're -- what we recommend is continuing to maintain
that system because you already have it in place. It's already been
funded, and it's already, through the current upgrades, going to be up
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to date -- to continue to support those users.
It's actually very common for counties to operate secondary
radio systems for nonpublic safety users.
We've worked with many other counties that have built
completely stand-alone radio systems to support schools and other
county utility departments and public works and other departments as
a way of segmenting out that traffic so that that traffic doesn't
compete for airspace with first responder traffic. So the fact that you
already have the system in place, it would be a great opportunity to
leverage the equipment for that purpose.
So the two-system solution that we're recommending would
allow for beneficial use of the existing equipment, it would allow the
systems to provide backups for each other where if you did have a
failure you could fall back one to the other. All of the user
equipment is compatible across both platforms. It would allow for
the ability to attract additional investment from L3 Harris service
providers so that you could continue to support and maintain the
existing system, and through this RFP process, be able to solicit a
better level of support than what you've had in the past.
It would allow for the system to -- or for the existing L3 Harris
system already in place with uses having already -- users having
already purchased compliant radios. So all of those radios that are on
the system today would be compatible across either platform,
whether they're Motorola or L3 Harris radios.
It would provide the opportunity for reducing support and
maintenance costs for the existing system. Maybe you don't need to
maintain the same standards that you have with it not being a public
safety grade system at that point. And it would allow for capacity
surges on your primary system to not be impacted from your
nonpublic safety users.
So what are the challenges that are faced with that two-system
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solution? Well, ongoing maintenance for the two systems is probably
the most significant one; that you would have to continue to support,
in some capacity, the ability to maintain the existing system while
investing in the new system. There would be complexity for county
staff and managing those systems. I think the county's goal is to be
able to transition ownership of the -- of the L3 Harris system to the
school board where they would be able to take on that responsibility.
The shelter space and some of the constraints on radio towers
would need to accommodate both antennas for the old and new
systems. So there's a challenge there that would need to be
overcome. And then we'd have to work out frequencies. So
there's -- frequencies are needed to support these systems, and we'd
have to figure out how we can make both systems work with regard
to frequencies.
I would note I think these challenges can be overcome. They
are more technical challenges. They would just take some efforts to
make sure that we had the right solutions in place.
From a budget perspective, for both options we've presented
budgets. We've identified here our long list of assumptions for what
is included in those budgetary estimates. It includes a site count. In
this case we're recommending a total of 20 radio sites, which would
be six additional in addition to the 14 that you have in place today. It
would support increase in-building coverage with a number of those
areas we identified. That would be five new radio towers in support
of those six sites.
We're recommending increasing the channel count, replacing
dispatch consoles, adding redundant controllers, maintaining the
connectivity between the sites, and then providing infrastructure
upgrades so that your shelters have improved grounding, improved
relevancy to natural events, improved installation standards, the
ability to make sure that your site infrastructure can be maintained at
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a high level.
The budgetary estimate we provided, we did -- we have an
original cost here when we first completed the study. We added a
column here just based on some of the uncertainty we're seeing in the
market with regard to tariffs that -- we don't yet know the impact that
these are going to have on pricing, but we included a 15 percent
markup just in case. We want to make sure you're prepared, given
some of that uncertainty.
Part of the challenge here is radio vendors, when they commit to
these projects, they're committing to pricing often for two-, three-,
four-year projects on a fixed-price basis. So they have to consider
their risk and uncertainty into how they price these systems. So a lot
of times you will see pricing go up even before you might see policy
cement or take effect. So that's the reason why we're seeing these
differences here.
What we're seeing is that budgetary estimate is somewhere
between 50 and 60 million for the radio equipment for Motorola with
different levels of incentive discounts, depending on how the system
is negotiated, that you may be able to secure through that negotiation
process.
Ongoing costs, we gave a flat estimate of 10 percent of the
infrastructure costs in annual maintenance. That works out to about
four and a half million dollars based on that budgetary estimate. And
then the system today is about 1.2 million, just under, in annual
maintenance. So if the two systems maintained side by side, that's
probably a good budgetary estimate for keeping both sides
operational.
So if we looked at the L3 Harris option, what we did for an
apples-to-apples comparison is assume that we would include an
identical radio site configuration, adding to 20 radio sites,
adding -- upgrading the system to support 18 channels, improving the
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infrastructure, improving the microwave connectivity, and improving
the backup power systems. And based on those estimates, you know,
the system budget, somewhere in that 30 to $38 million cost, getting
as close as we can to an apples-to-apples configuration for the
number of sites, number of channels, and system configuration.
Again, with that ongoing cost, similar, when we factor the
existing equipment added to the new equipment, in that range of four
and a half million dollars per year.
So some of the considerations, we remember with the Harris
option, that you're looking at a significant repeater upgrade probably
in the neighborhood of nine to 10 years down the road, that you're
looking at a significant investment as those repeaters start to reach
their end of life. You would not get the benefit of that integration at
that level with those other dispatch applications that we talked about,
and then you don't have the benefits that we talked about with the
ability for the systems to fall back on one another. You would still
have all your system -- your system would still be a single system;
one platform with all users sharing that system.
So as far as next steps, you know, our goal is to receive direction
from you regarding how you would like to proceed -- with what
direction you would like to proceed. Based on whatever that
direction is, we are on board to support the specifications and assist
with negotiating a contract with your vendor of choice to be able to
secure a contract to provide the necessary system upgrades.
So that concludes our presentation. Appreciate your time and
your commitment to MCP to help you with this study.
We'll hand the floor back to the county, and I know some of the
users here would like to give their opinion on the matter. So thank
you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We don't have any questions or
comments yet from the Commission, so let's proceed.
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MR. FALGIATORE: All right. Thank you.
MR. HINKLE: Great, thank you.
I think at this time I'd like to have our public safety first
responders come up and address some of the issues that were
presented here today. I think they're all well aware of it. They live
with it every day. And at this point, I'd like to ask for the volunteers
to come up and speak for the committee here.
CHIEF BYRNE: Commissioners, good afternoon. My name is
Chris Byrne. I'm the fire chief at the City of Marco Island, and I'm
the president of the Collier County Fire and EMS Chiefs Association.
First of all, the fire chiefs want to extend our appreciation to you
and the county manager for utilizing Mission Critical Partners to
provide an evaluation of the public radio system. As you see, their
findings are both informative and concerning.
Our first responders rely on quality communications systems to
effectively respond to the needs of our community. System failures
compromise the safety of our residents and first responders.
As identified by Mission Critical Partners, the current radio
system reliability is poor, and the radio system is not properly
maintained by the current contracted provider.
In 2022, the Fire Chiefs Association sent a letter of no
confidence to L3 Harris regarding Communications International.
As detailed in today's presentation, the public safety radio
system is in need of significant improvement, and two options have
been provided for your consideration.
Based on the recommendations, the fire chiefs seek your support
of Option 2. We have invested significantly in Motorola radio
equipment and software, and Option 2, the Motorola solution, will
align the radio system with our radio equipment, resulting in
substantial improvements.
On behalf of the fire chiefs, our firefighters, and paramedics,
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thank you for your consideration.
MR. HINKLE: At this time I'd like to call our former chief of
Greater Naples Fire, Nolan Sapp.
CHIEF SAPP: Good afternoon. It's been 14 months and two
days since I retired. But my whole life I've had a couple of very near
passions that I hold near and dear. The fire service being No. 1.
Public safety, but communications.
So I've been working with radios since before I could get a
driver's license. And when I came here in 1990 to go to work for
North Naples Fire, I soon got connected with the radio system. And
in 1994, I was asked to sit with Crystal and many others as we
went -- moved forward designing our new 800 megahertz system,
and that was an honor and a privilege that I got to do.
And through the time that I got to do all that and learn how the
system worked -- back then it was GE. We started out with GE. We
had a pretty good system going initially, and we went with GE at the
time because there was a -- we call it a watch dog committee that
spoke out against Motorola then because they were $2 million more
than GE. The county at that time elected to be with the cheaper
version instead of the Motorola system. I think if we'd gone with
Motorola initially, we'd be in a lot better position than we are today.
Truly, we would.
If there's one thing that you noticed in that presentation, when
you looked at L3 Harris and you looked at what Motorola's doing,
what I see is a lot of research and development that's taking place
with the Motorola side of things from not only the backbone of the
system, but the user equipment itself that everybody carries today.
They left the L3 Harris platform because the user equipment,
meaning the portable radios, the truck radios, were unreliable. I
raised numerous flags about the lack of accountability with
manufacturing defects and so forth that was just left unanswered.
June 10, 2025
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When we had the opportunity to go to Motorola, that was a
tried-and-trued piece of equipment that everybody could use and
have comfort in knowing it was going to function each time. The
failure rate for a Motorola product was far less than it was for the L3
product. Of course, L3 came back, and they came back with a new
design. "This is our new firefighter radio." It was just the old radio
in a new skin. The technology remains the same.
L3 has failed to do the research and development necessary for
the user equipment and I feel also for the backbone of the system that
needs to be in place to keep up with today's fast-moving technology
changes. It has to be there.
We heard all of the failures that have taken place. I lived
through those failures. The swatting call you talked about earlier,
Commissioner, that occurred on Golden Gate Parkway at the David
Lawrence Center. Called in as a possible active shooter. The
Sheriff's policy at the time was deputies that were available to
respond on or off duty responded to the scene. They had over 100
deputies on scene. We had over 50 first responders from fire and
EMS there and everybody else.
It overloaded the system. The system was crashing. You were
getting a busy signal every time you'd try to key up on your radio
trying to have command and control of what's taking place and
coming into you.
It happened numerous times during large brushfires. It
happened during Hurricane Irma. The system -- the microwave got
bumped a half an inch during Hurricane Irma, and when that
happened -- when that happened -- it's just a half inch on top of this
building. But a half inch spread over 10 miles is how wide. So it
missed -- it missed the tower.
So we lost communication not for hours, not for minutes, but for
days. It took three or four days to get the system back online, and we
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were having to use backup radios. We were having to use direct
line-of-sight radios, on and on and on.
So the failures continue. It happened again in Ian. It's happened
several other times. The other day, I was monitoring a brushfire that
was occurring near my house. I was listening to the personnel
operate on scene, and the radios just went off. So while they're trying
to get on scene and coordinate all the activities for everybody, get
everybody where they need to be, make sure everybody's safe, the
radio just shut off. Nobody could talk to anybody.
Some of the command staff were having to run from truck to
truck to give that direction, and some of that was over a pretty good
distance. Meanwhile, the fire's coming in on communities, coming in
on apartments, coming in on houses, and they're trying to mitigate
that situation, but nobody could do it.
There's been other failures that, you know, the report doesn't
mention. But, you know, because I've been here since dirt was
brought to Collier County, I remember.
SafePoint. SafePoint came to being. That was going to be the
end all, be all for us to be able to track units in the field. The county
paid upwards of over $2 million for this component to be put on the
radio system. It was supposed to track us on where we go. Guess
what? It showed the units in the Gulf of Mexico. When the EMS
was trying to locate their ambulances, it was five miles offshore. The
system never worked. I don't think the county ever got their money
back for it, but we never implemented it. If we did, nobody in the
Fire Service knew about it. It was going to be the end all, be all to
everything. It was going to be great. Didn't work.
We had house fires. I literally am as close as I am to you right
now and could not communicate with people inside the house. That
didn't work.
When they mentioned the school board paying $15 million for
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their system, I was in the meeting where we discussed this, and they
start describing how this is going to work. It's going to put anywhere
from a two- or three-channel site at every school. Well, that's a
standalone site or, as we call it, single-site component to the system.
Well, single site means you're leaving the simulcast -- that's what
everybody works on. So you're going from being able to talk to
everybody countywide to only somebody that can communicate right
there on site.
And when they -- they identified all this in the meeting, I raised
my hand and said, "This doesn't work."
They said, "Oh, it's going to be great. The school's going to love
it."
It works great for the school. It doesn't work for public safety
when we go there.
I described it as a two- to four-channel site. All right. Well, one
channel's called a control channel. That channel handles all the data
for the radio system itself, so that leaves either one or three other
channels to have voice communication on. Well, the school board
you know is going to take one of those. The Sheriff's going to roll up
on scene; they're going to need one or two of the other channels. So
that leaves Fire and EMS in the breeze. We can't communicate.
Also, leaving the simulcast system to go to a single-site system
negates your emergency button on your radio. So if you're in trouble
and you need help, that button no longer functions. If you need to
communicate with other resources coming to you, you can't do that
because you've taken it to a single site outside of the simulcast
system.
I raised the question then, and John Daily was here, and John
was near and dear to me. But I said, "John, this is dumb. This just
does not make sense for public safety. It's going to work good for the
school working on site day-to-day basis, blue skies, but when things
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go ugly, they're going to go ugly fast because we're not going to have
the ability to speak to each other, talk to our resources coming in,
calling that mutual aid, trying to do what we did with David
Lawrence Center when we had over 150 first responders there
because something bad was going down. It's just not going to work."
And the failures just continue and continue and continue. I can't
tell you how many times we've be in wildfires. The system would go
down. And the worst part was when we as fire chiefs would ask,
"What happened?"
"I don't know. They haven't told us yet." We've rarely ever got
a detailed report on why the system would shut down.
Again, we were talking 30 minutes, a while ago, about the
wildfire or three days after Irma. The system just continues to fail.
The Fire Service has left the L3 product, what they can control
about it, which is the user equipment, for something that does a better
job. And if anybody would like to, Motorola has the research and
development for all their used equipment on the other side of the state
in Plantation. You're welcome to go over there any time and take a
look at it. It will astound you on where they're going in the future.
What I see L3 doing, I see them putting a new cover on the same
technology. I don't see anything new. Even though I'm not here on a
daily basis, because I love radios and communications and everything
else, I keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on. That pulse is
fainting looking at L3 Harris products. It's not going to meet the
needs of the future. It's not going to meet the needs of this
community. It's just not going to do it.
Try as they will, I just don't think they've got enough business
out there to motivate them to do the R&D that's needed for public
safety. They do a terrific job for the military. They build all the
radios for the military. They're doing a great job for them. They're
not identifying and they're not working on public safety.
June 10, 2025
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And I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. I've given
the County Manager a letter outlining a lot of what I said here, for the
Board, but if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them
or --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
CHIEF SAPP: -- I'll be here in the shadows watching.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. HINKLE: Thank you, Nolan.
Anyone else from public safety?
(No response.)
MR. HINKLE: Okay. I think based on the presentation -- you
know, I'm truly moved by the fact that the first responders are willing
to step up today. I think that the results of the Mission Critical study
are definitive and obvious as to what direction I would like to see us
go in.
I think, basically, nothing else matters but the first responders
that put their lives -- put your life before their own, and I want to
make sure that they come home at night. They're concerned about
you more than their own safety in many cases. This radio system
doesn't meet their needs, and I think it's important to consider that
dearly.
I would like to ask that we open further discussion with Collier
County Public Schools to ensure that we have a potential agreement
with them in the next couple of years as we move forward to a radio
system. I'd also like to ask that we designate someone from
Procurement and the County Manager's Corporate Financial
Management Services to work with the team on whatever radio
system that you would like us to go with, I'd like to schedule us to go
before the Board in 60 days, on August the 12th.
I'd like to open the floor up for questions now from the
commissioners. I'm more than happy to answer.
June 10, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's see if there's any
other public comment. I don't see any --
MR. MILLER: We do have some registered speakers. Your
first speaker is Todd Reed, and he would be followed by Josh
Trifiletti. Todd's been ceded three additional minutes from Eddie
Stokes. And I believe Eddie's here. I just saw him earlier. Yeah,
he's over there.
So, Todd, you will have six minutes and will be followed by
Josh Trifiletti.
MR. REED: Hi. Good afternoon. I don't know that I'll
necessarily need six minutes, although I'll be up here the entire
duration for any questions you might have.
As mentioned, my name is Todd Reed. I'm with
Communications International. We're the service provider for the
current system, and we are the channel partner for L3 Harris.
First off, I want to commend your direction to staff to
commission a report to be done, a consultation report on the system.
And in general, we completely acknowledge and recognize their
findings as it relates to the need for continued improvements and
upgrades on the system. Clearly, a system in your community, as it's
growing, needs to be improved and reinforced. And you have done a
fine job, and your staff has done a fine job of doing that over the past
30, 35 years, taking from analog system that was originally installed
back in 1995 to its current P25 digital configuration.
Discussing the MCP report, they actually evaluated eight
different categories as it relates to the system's performance and
reliability. They evaluated coverage, capacity, reliability in network,
interoperability, technology and features, subscriber user units,
lifestyle and maintenance, facilities. Those are eight areas that they
evaluated. Of those eight areas, there's three different criteria: Poor
being the worst criteria, ranging from a 0 to 30 percent score; okay
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being the second criteria ranging from a 30 to 70 percent score; and
finally, good, which is the highest category that you can achieve that
has an evaluation score of greater than 70 percent.
In their assessment, they found that capacity scored at 70
percent, or in the good area. Interoperability was excess of
70 percent, as was technology and features. Subscriber radios also
scored 80 percent. Life cycle and maintenance was at 80 percent. So
of the eight categories that were evaluated, seven of -- or, I'm sorry,
six of them scored higher than okay.
The areas that were identified as being borderline between good
and okay were reliability and network, facilities, and coverage.
And as the map showed, there are coverage issues whether you
stay with L3 and increase your coverage or go to a new system that
would do the same thing. It's a matter of basic radio frequency
technology. For coverage, you need more antennas whether you stay
with L3 or you go with the Motorola solution.
What's remarkable is the statement was made that the Sheriff's
Office had invested in some building blocks in the Motorola system,
and I agree with that; however, you-all, over the past 30 years, have
investigated in the building. You have the building as it stands now,
and there are opportunities certainly to improve it. And to that end,
you have committed over $20 million in the past decade towards
continued enhancements.
I think -- you know, the numbers that were presented as it relates
to a 56 -- 50 to $60 million price tag to replace the system with a
Motorola solution is something that takes a lot of consideration,
obviously. And we feel confident that, you know, doing an internal
rough order of magnitude, that we can accomplish the same goals that
are outlined in the MCP report and that would be achieved through a
Motorola solution at a cost no more than $20 million. So potentially,
a third of the initial cost.
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Secondarily, as was mentioned, the cost of maintenance was
significantly higher for the Motorola solution. If I'm not mistaken, it
was almost twice as much or $2 million per year for ongoing
maintenance that was outlined. And I think both of those things are
something that clearly need consideration.
It's remarkable that capacity was identified as an issue that needs
to be evaluated and improved and upgraded. Capacity is merely the
amount of traffic that the system can manage. And as it's noted, for
future upgrades, capacity is an issue to meet, you know, the 15-year
growth. Capacity, as it relates of today's system, we -- MCP's report
found that we were in the 80th percentile under current conditions,
and that's the same report that you-all have.
The other consideration that I'd like you to take is that these
improvements, using the building that you have in the L3 system, are
improvements that can be phased in over a period of years. They
don't need to be done in a single fiscal year. They can be phased in
over a period of years based on a triage conversation that we have
between you, your staff, and obviously, us and L3 Harris.
There was a discussion about LTE coverage, that there are areas
currently -- and there always will be areas in any system, because
money is always an issue, where coverage is limited. L3 Harris also
offers an LTE solution for the radios, so it's something that can be
implemented in an L3 radio just as easily as implemented into a
Motorola radio.
Remarkably, there are almost three times as many Harris radios
on the system as it stands today, and that's according to the report that
was completed by MCP. There's nearly three times as many L3
radios on the system as it stands today than Motorola radios.
Regardless of that fact, a Motorola radio and an L3 radio will work
on a P25 radio system. The radio system that you have, either radio
will work on it as is clear because currently there's Motorola radios
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operating on the system.
You know, we're committed to addressing these issues, these
upgrade discussions and opportunities, and I believe that we can do it
at a significant cost savings to the county and still provide public
safety, the communications reliability, and coverage that they
deserve.
I come from the public safety environment myself. I was a
20-year law enforcement officer up in Volusia County. I have a
friend that at the time we were on a Motorola system -- and it has
nothing to do with Motorola, just we were on a Motorola system, and
I had a dear friend that was in a fight for his life and ended up taking
the life of the offender because of a failure of the communications
system. So the idea of holding communications near and dear to my
heart and to our heart is huge.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
MR. REED: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Josh Trifiletti, and he will
be followed by Joe Warner.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I have a question for the
speaker. Should I hold it to the end?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Just while you're at the
podium, sir.
MR. REED: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And I have some questions for
Nick from MCP, but we'll hold those to the end.
But how can those scores be that high when I've got a fire chief
saying he's trying to talk to a firefighter that's, you know, 20 feet
away and can't, yet it's being scored in the high 70s or low 80s?
What am I missing there in the scores? And who did that ranking?
Because, obviously, the people holding the radios aren't scoring it a
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high good. So what am I missing?
MR. REED: When I find out, I'll let you know, and if you
would do the same for me, I'd appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Okay.
MR. REED: But it's in the MCP report, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. My second question
for you, or my latest question, would be, if you can do the upgrade
for a third of the cost --
MR. REED: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- what would we be getting
that's different? Or, I mean -- or are you just going to be doing the
exact thing that MCP has recommended, but you're going to do it for
a cheaper amount? It sounds like there's sort of -- it's going to
be -- your upgrade, for it to be a third of the cost, is sort of Option 3,
and it's a bit of a hybrid. What are those main differences?
MR. REED: Yeah, great question. So as I said, with Motorola,
if you go to the other option, they have to build the building, and the
building will include the upgrades. As I mentioned, you have the
building, and now you're upgraded the building that you already
have. So it puts us in a much better position to implement those
upgrades that MCP recommended, and we don't disagree with them.
We think they're great, and we should always be evaluating the
system to see how we can improve it and how we can better serve the
user community and the community at large as it grows.
So the difference -- and my opinion is the true difference is you
have a building already that you're putting some additions on versus
tearing it down and putting a new building in with those same
additions.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So in the end, the option that's
a third of the cost would -- we would still -- our public safety teams
would still maintain two systems, right, sort of a combination, of both
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of L3 Harris and Motorola, but sort of upgrade both, keep the
building, and basically don't start from scratch, but in the end we
would wind up still having a combination of both systems. But in
your estimation, it would be upgrading both to work together, the
same way they are now, but better. Is that a good --
MR. REED: The Sheriff's Office, as I understand, has invested
in Motorola core that they, you know, are, you know, saying that they
can expand, enhance, and use as a foundation for the future building.
It's the foundation.
You as a commission, and your staff, has invested, I believe in
October of 2023, $1.2 million for a new core on the L3 system. So
you already have the infrastructure in place.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. REED: Any other questions?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll let you know.
MR. REED: Thank you for your time. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Don't go away.
MR. REED: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Josh Trifiletti. He'll be
followed by Joe Warner.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, did you
have something before this next speaker?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, not right now. We can
hear from the rest of the speakers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Yes, sir.
MR. TRIFILETTI: Good afternoon, Commissioners, Chair
Saunders, members of the Board. Thank you for the opportunity to
speak today.
First and foremost, I just want to express our deep appreciation
for the long-term partnership we've had with Collier County public
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safety agencies, Collier County Sheriff's Office, and the Fire and
EMS agencies here within Collier County.
And, look, when it's mattered, we've been here in good times
and bad times. When Hurricane Ian just rolled through a couple
years ago, we came right behind it with food, bringing into the
dispatch centers, and then right behind that, we had our technical
resources training outside dispatchers to come in and step in to
operate those CAD dispatcher positions so the local dispatchers could
tend to their families.
We've also got a deep local presence here. My area sales
manager, Maurizio Callari (phonetic), is our area sales manager.
Many of you in here know him, and we're very involved in 100 Club
and other local agencies, and we've also got a very unique
relationship with Collier County Sheriff's Office and the surrounding
agencies where we've helped to codevelop numerous products that
have benefited both Collier County as well as other agencies
nationwide.
Collier County, you know, from the Sheriff's Office and all of
the public safety agencies represent excellence in public safety, and
we've been proud to be associated with that, and it aligns with our
core values.
Now, you guys have spent a lot of time, made a big investment
here with MCP. You know, the public safety agencies have been a
significant part of this. Collier County telecommunications has been
a big part of this in trying to evaluate what the right path forward is.
And what sets Motorola, I think, apart from everyone else is
we're not covering just a radio system. So we are offering cutting
edge technology that employs some of the latest and greatest that
really sets us apart.
So we offer a cloud-based backup core to the video system, so
we talked about radio system cores. That's what the brain is of the
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radio system. We've deployed these backup cores that are cloud
based in different locations, and it's kept radio systems up and
running in cases where the hardware infrastructure may have failed,
and first responders were able to continue to communicate and
respond to calls for service.
We've also got best-in-class cybersecurity that allows us to
manage, detect, and respond to threats, and we also employ what we
call our Motorola Emergency Response Team. And many folks here
in Collier County and in Lee County and around the state are very
familiar with our Motorola Emergency Response Team where we
truck in equipment and technicians anywhere anytime right after a
hurricane comes through.
We talked about Smart Connect. Motorola radio system would
give you full capability for a feature set that is already being used by
a lot of the first responders here, and Motorola is the only
manufacturer that offers direct management, maintenance, service,
and support to our radio systems. So that's very important.
And I do want to continue on for a few more seconds. There are
some vast, vast, vast differences between our radios and L3 Harris
radios, and that's why Collier County Sheriff's Office, Naples Police
Department, North Collier Fire, Greater Naples Fire, and pretty much
every public agency here in Collier County has bought exclusively
Motorola radios since this system moved to P25 back in 2019.
So there's a good reason for that. Yes, it takes time. You know,
over time we've been selling these radios, and we've been deploying
these radios. But I want it to be very clear in here that all of the
public safety agencies here in Collier County are relying exclusively
on Motorola radio equipment for first responders.
And we just want to, again, express our appreciation for the
deep partnership here in Collier County, and we are here to help the
county and support the county throughout this process regardless of
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how this goes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Any other speakers, Troy?
MR. MILLER: We have one more speaker, Joe Warner, and
this is your final public speaker on this item.
MR. WARNER: County Commissioners, Chair Saunders, I'm
Joe Warner, vice president of strategic projects for Motorola. On
behalf of myself and the Collier County account team for Motorola, I
want to first thank you for the time today, all of the work that you
have put into this project. I want to also thank the first responders in
the county as well as the radio teams in the county for all the work
over the 18 months that has been put hand in hand with Mission
Critical Partners, your consultant, into this radio study.
Collier County is a crucial partner to Motorola. You saw in
Nick's presentation a lot of the deployments and projects that we're
working hand in hand with your first responders on. We know how
crucial this radio system is not only to your first responders but also
to your citizens, and I want to let you all know, your first responders
know and Mission Critical Partners know if there's anything you need
from a Motorola standpoint over the next few months as you work
through this process, you have our full backing and support.
So thank you for your time and consideration. If there's
anything you need on our end, please let us know.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Commissioner McDaniel, you were lit up. Do you have
anything at this time?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I have a statement. I
don't really have a -- and I do have a question, I think, for the -- and
I've forgotten your name, forgive me, from MCP.
MR. FALGIATORE: Nick.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I do have a question for you
June 10, 2025
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when we get there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll just call you Nick.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's a Nick. It's a Nick. It's
Nick.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How are you? Nicholas, how
are you?
MR. FALGIATORE: Excellent.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just want to -- I, you
know -- I feel like I'm being called upon to vote on something right
now, and I'm not going to vote on anything. I'm looking at all my
friends in the first responders line. We were -- we were here today to
receive a presentation and accept a presentation from MCP.
Now, we may, going down the line, hear other information that
will ultimately cause us to have to go to a decision, but the decision is
not being made today. This is a presentation that we're to accept. It
says it right here, we're to accept this presentation, and I'll be happy
to accept that.
So I just wanted to say that up front. I don't want to feel like I'm
being pressured right now. This isn't the day -- this isn't the time for
that.
My question to you -- and in the review -- because when you put
up that -- when you put up the map of the tower locations --
MR. FALGIATORE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the first note -- and I'm
just -- I'm just Huckleberry Billy. I'm looking at this map. The one
that had the lines going on it. That one.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The loop, that was my first
note was the loop expense, because I don't know anything about radio
communications, but I do know about interconnection and that
loops -- I mean, Mr. DeLony in the back talks regularly about having
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to have a loop connection even with our wastewater, water/sewer,
and so on.
So is there an analysis with the expense associated for looping
this system -- and certainly, you probably can't loop all the way out to
the one in the middle on I-75, but it looks to me like with a little bit
of connection we can come from Immokalee to Corkscrew, and we
can come from Carnestown over to the Krehling site, and necessarily
we have looped the system.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yep. So there is actually a project
underway to conduct a portion of that. So the county is currently
contracted with Motorola to support microwave enhancements based
on the budget available to close some of those loops. The connection
from Immokalee to Corkscrew, Old 41 to Gulf Coast High School.
You know, a lot of these are some of those low-hanging fruit to take
that budget available to try and make some common sense upgrades
to the microwave system.
There is also an upgrade that's being conducted with L3 Harris
at the moment to add MPLS routers. They're the building block of
enabling redundancy across some of these pads to try and provide
some incremental upgrades. These are actions that the county's been
doing everything they can to try and find ways to improve reliability
on the existing platform.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Outstanding. And I'm glad to
hear that. I mean, no matter what, we need to have the dang thing
work when we hit the button.
Number two, you mentioned that there was issues contractually
between Communications International and the L3 Harris, the
hardware provider. Can you identify circumstantially, or is that
something that I need to look up with my county staff attorney and
such?
MR. FALGIATORE: Circumstantially, I can just explain their
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relationship. So L3 Harris is the equipment supplier. They provide
the hardware.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. FALGIATORE: Communications International holds the
contract. So they have -- any formal relationship is between
Communications International and the county.
So the challenge, as I understand, that the county has faced is the
county does not have a -- the ability to go and elicit direct support
from L3 Harris to help address issues that they've been facing. They
have to work through the contract holder, which is Communications
International.
So there's been challenges that they've experienced in the past
that they could probably elaborate on more where, because of that
relationship, it has limited their ability to gain access to resources that
might have been helpful for certain situations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And as we go forward,
I would like to hear what those challenges are and from what entity,
who's not talking to who. Because it seems to me to stand to reason
that if I have a contractor that's managing my hardware, the
communication needs to be implicit. I mean, there can't be a
breakdown in communication.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I need to know whether
that's a legal issue, contractual issue, Nathan not making the -- hitting
the right button when he's calling -- and I'm picking on him because
he's standing right behind you. So -- and we don't need to have those
answers today. I'm just sharing with you these are -- those are some
of the things that I heard throughout the presentation that I would like
identified before -- before we are pushed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
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A couple questions for you, Nick. So obviously our public
safety teams use two systems combined together. You went over that
in great detail. Does our school board just use L3 Harris exclusively,
or they use a hybrid of Motorola and L3 Harris?
MR. FALGIATORE: The school board uses L3 Harris
exclusively.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. So hearing all the
negatives with L3 Harris, one of my concerns is if we went with the
option that takes -- and I might be oversimplifying this, so correct me
if I'm wrong. If we went with our option that went heavy Motorola
and then took all the investment that we've already made in L3 Harris
and took it away from the public safety teams and gave it to the
school board -- right? That's basically what you're
recommending -- why would I want to do that if I saw a slide that had
nothing but how horrible L3 Harris is?
I mean, if there's an active shooter situation at Lely High School,
not only are public safety guys going to be going bonkers, but I've
got to think everybody that runs the school is going to be all over
their radios as well.
So if you've identified these huge shortfalls with the L3 Harris
system, why would I want to pass it to the school board and say, you
know, "Good luck"? And I'm not saying this in an attack mode at
you, but I'm trying to get my arms around, wow, you guys have done
a big deep dive on the systems, and, you know, in order to -- what it
sounds like, to not waste our investment on L3 Harris, "Hey, the
school board, they don't have as many moving parts. They could
benefit from more L3 Harris equipment."
But I sit here, and I still have some concern. And this is a big
investment. You know, we just voted a couple of hours ago on a
$50 million project to combat mental health. This is another
$50 million project.
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So give me a little bit of detail in sort of those multiple questions
that I have in there.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yeah, absolutely. So the school board, I
think our recommendation is allowing them to be able to benefit from
their much more recent investment that they just made. I would
also --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: In L3 Harris?
MR. FALGIATORE: In L3 Harris equipment and the system
that they just provided.
I will tell you that I don't want anything in my -- and at least in
our opinion, in our presentation to be saying that there is something
inherently bad about L3 Harris equipment. I think what we are
saying is the deployments and the experience locally within Collier
County has not been meeting your needs based on the system design
that is in place here.
The school board system -- and you mentioned it -- and not
through this study, but through work that we've supported through the
Sheriff's Office, there are a number of challenges that we've
presented specific to the school system and the way that it's going
to -- the way it's designed, the way it would support public safety
operations, communications in schools, which, as Mr. Sapp
mentioned, there's major challenges in the way that system will
operate.
But from a recommendation standpoint, for better or worse, the
school board has just made this investment in that infrastructure.
And if we were to go down one path, which we didn't present as an
option, which is scrap the entire L3 Harris system and have
everybody go to new Motorola system -- we did not see that as an
option because that would completely gut the ability of the school
board, among a number of other reasons, from being able to leverage
the system that they just purchased. Because it depends on the
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county L3 Harris system being tied to all of the sites that they just put
at all of their schools in order to operate properly.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I know you didn't do an
analysis of the school board's L3 Harris system, but with maybe what
you know -- because here's a quote that I wrote down: "There's many
single points of failure with the L3 Harris system."
MR. FALGIATORE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And that's on the public safety
side. I'm wondering on the school board system, do you or anyone
else in the audience have any kind of deep dive into what they've
been experiencing. Obviously, they operate at a different -- at a
different level than our public safety, you know, pros, but I'm
wondering what they've been experiencing with the system.
MR. FALGIATORE: So to that point, there are absolutely
many single points of failure on the school radio system. I think the
point that we were making with nonpublic safety users in the school
board is for their day-to-day operations, they are not -- they're not --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Not life and death.
MR. FALGIATORE: -- law enforcement. They're not fire. If
there is an outage and the school staff can't communicate, that's not a
life-and-death situation for those users.
So hardening the system, eliminating single points of failure, are
those things we'd like to do? Certainly. But there's a lot of radio
systems out there that are not designed for public safety. They're
designed for other less critical user groups that need the same
capabilities but don't need necessarily the same investment and
reliability, and the school board would be one that could use the
system without all of that further hardening and resiliency because
they don't need it to operate with seconds of downtime a year. They
can --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Lastly -- let me ask you there,
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too. If we went that route, so everything the school board would
inherit that our public safety people are using now -- so they'd get a
whole bunch of additional inventory, right? They'd get a lot more
equipment. Did they really need it? Are they -- do they have some
shortfalls, or they say -- it's just the smartest thing -- instead of
throwing it in the garbage and then upgrading, you know, the public
safety teams, would they really benefit, you know, from it? Are there
some things in there that would be a big advantage to them and it
would upgrade their system because, as you said, it's not a
life-or-death type thing?
MR. FALGIATORE: So the way that their system operates,
they have two needs. They have the need to communicate inside of
all of their schools, and that's the system that they bought, are sites at
their schools so they could get coverage inside their schools. They
also have all of their buses that don't necessarily operate in schools.
They're going all throughout the county traveling on roadways.
So the county radio system is high sites, tall towers covering the
whole countywide footprint, and the school board relies on those for
their buses and for all of the sites they just purchased to operate in the
schools. The county handing infrastructure over would allow them to
have that same system so they could operate outdoors with all their
buses and still be able to operate in-building.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Which they can't do now?
MR. FALGIATORE: Which -- well, they were sharing the
public safety infrastructure to do that now.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I gotcha. Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I've got a couple quick questions.
And it's my only concern. You're kind of recommending the dual
system here for obvious reasons. So we have an active school
shooter situation.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yes.
June 10, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The folks in the school system
have radios that are not really set up for emergency situations like
we're talking about. Does that create a potential problem as law
enforcement is and first responders are on the way to the
school -- what happens then? Are they able to still communicate with
the first responders or --
MR. FALGIATORE: So there is -- so there is a major gap with
the school radio system, and this speaks to the work that we've done
for the Sheriff's Office on evaluating it, that the school radio sites do
not have enough capacity to support a major public safety response.
You need every bit of capacity that your whole wide area system can
provide to have enough simultaneous talk path to support that type of
response.
The school radio system, depending on the number of channels
they have, gives you up to a handful of available voice paths.
So no matter what happens with the system, that is still a gap in
your ability to communicate in schools and something that the school
board is working on; we've been working with the Sheriff's Office to
address. There's alternate solutions and testing that the school board
is going through to see what the right solution is. But in our opinion,
that -- that system that the school board invested in is not appropriate
for providing reliable public safety coverage in the schools.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. The reason I'm asking the
question is I don't want to be in a situation were we spend $30
million for a new radio system, we keep the L3 Harris system in the
schools, there's an active school shooter, and because we failed to
have the right system in the schools, kids die.
So my question is: Are we shortchanging the school system,
even though they've spent $15 million on a system that -- maybe they
shouldn't have, I don't know, but they've spent $15 million on a
system that will not be effective in an active school shooter situation.
June 10, 2025
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Are we creating a problem? I'd rather spend $15 million to make
sure that doesn't happen.
MR. FALGIATORE: So the radio system, the way it's
designed, it is expanding coverage in certain areas. The expansion of
coverage is going to improve school coverage. There's no way of us
guaranteeing that it's going to reliably cover every school throughout
the county. It's going to improve it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If your kid was at a school in
Collier County, what system would you want them using in the
school system?
MR. FALGIATORE: I'd want them to put a reliable in-building
bidirectional amplifier and distributed an antenna system in that
school to reliably cover it if it's not being served by the outdoor
system.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Can that be installed in our
schools, and what would be the cost of that?
MR. FALGIATORE: So -- it's a loaded question because the
best answer is, "It depends." The guidance we gave to the school
board is to go through a testing effort and find out exactly where the
gaps are in the schools. They are -- they've contracted a company
that's doing that testing.
And what we'd recommend is based on the outcomes of that
study that they would put in in-building enhancement systems where
enhancements are needed. The cost for that depends on the size and
complexity and number -- and construction and number of dead spots
in the schools. But that would be the step to do that: Test the
coverage, identify where the dead spots are, and look at whatever
system design you ultimately decide to do and where the sites are
going. That's going to tell you where you're going to get
improvements in coverage.
But test in the schools, find where the dead spots are and put in
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the right solution to give you full system capacity that your whole
public safety system's going to provide within that school to support
the maximum available response from first responders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal -- I'm sorry.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: If it pleases the Chair, I'd just like to
make a motion to accept the presentation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I'll just go back to my experience. I remember we used to do
quad training in the schools and stuff like that with the Sheriff's
Department. And I remember initially on, early on, especially after
Columbine and all that, and when that was such a big, you know,
topic, the problem we had -- and this is kind of like what Chief Sapp
talked about, too -- but the problem we had was, you know, when we
were in the schools early on, we had a hard time communicating even
to each other within the schools, and then like you said, the schools
then started developing repeaters that were in the schools. We'd do
training or be in the schools in a situation and say -- we had a better
communication in the schools, but then what the Chief was talking
about is, then we would lose com -- because we were on that repeater
that was just centrally located in the building --
MR. FALGIATORE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- we'd lose com with the outside
world to let them know what the situations were. We'd either lose
com with the dispatch or lose com with the TOC, tactical operation
command, things like that. Nature.
But I guess what Commissioner Saunders is getting to, so if we
leave the system in place as Harris for the schools and they get the
repeaters to a point where it's not an issue where we're in the school
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actively seeking a shooter, and we can talk to the teams while in the
school seeking the danger, you know, the threat, I guess, if it's then
we adopt a Motorola system, will the Motorola system be able to do
the same thing where then we can have connectivity with the outside
world because we're now on the Motorola system, or do we still have
the same problem with being -- switching over to the repeater that's
in the school system? Even -- it doesn't matter what radio we're
carrying because it's what's going to happen. So can you --
MR. FALGIATORE: Sure. So functionally speaking, assuming
the school system remains in place, the way that your users would
access that school system is going to be the same whether you choose
Motorola or whether you expand on L3 Harris. You would have to
change talk groups on your radio to a talk group that works in that
school.
And there's some technical details as to why you have to do that.
At a high level, you'd think that the radios could roam from the
outdoor system to the in-building system, but there's some technical
reasons why that can't happen.
So on your radio, you'd have to switch to access the resource in
the school that's serving that school on the system today. The system
today only provides a few talk paths. So you'd be competing for
traffic on those few talk paths that operate in the school with other
users within the school, with fire, with police, with all the public
safety response.
So you mentioned -- Commissioner Hall, you mentioned the
swatting incident before where the whole system got busy. This
county operates a system that has 18 talk paths, meaning you can
have 18 conversations at one time. The entire system of 18 talk paths
got busy during that incident, during that swatting incident.
You talk about an active shooter at a school, and those -- the
school radio system only has between two and six talk paths at any
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one individual school. So you look at the scale of what's needed to
reliably communicate during an active shooter. The right solution
that you need is something that takes the signal from outside and
rebroadcasts it inside so you don't have six talk paths. You have the
same number that you have outdoors, 18. And all your -- or in this
case what we're recommending, an expansion that would give you
some substantially more.
But that way you have no bottleneck in your traffic, that all the
maximum amount of traffic that you have would operate in your
school and would allow seamless communication outdoors to
indoors, so you don't have to switch channels and go to an island.
You stay on your same talk groups as you go into the school and
maintain communications. That requires finding a dead spots. And
the technology today is putting in bidirectional amplifier and
distributing antenna systems to -- what it does is it take the signal
from outdoors and rebroadcasts it indoors.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So what you're
recommending -- like, I saw initially you recommended keeping the
two systems.
MR. FALGIATORE: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I understand where you
stand on that. But adopting whatever -- if we adopt the Motorola
system, we spend upwards of $60 million, do we get that capability,
or do you roll one page over and say, "Go to Option 2," which is
upgrade the Harris system the L3. For $30 million do you get that
same connectivity?
MR. FALGIATORE: Neither option inherently gives you that
option. It's almost --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So that's something else we
would have to add on to make the schools and public safety
operational at the same time to have that fail-safe?
June 10, 2025
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MR. FALGIATORE: Correct. It needs to be a parallel
approach. It would something different.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So either one fix that problem
[sic]?
MR. FALGIATORE: Well, either one -- either one would not --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Either one doesn't fix it.
MR. FALGIATORE: Either one doesn't fix that problem. It
would have to be a parallel solution.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just a quick follow-up on the
school situation, so -- and I don't know anything about radios and
how you switch between the two different systems.
So you have the L3 systems in the schools. You have an active
school shooter. The first responders are on their way. They're on the
Motorola system. When they get into the schools, they're going to
have to do something to switch to be able to communicate while
they're inside the schools.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I know they're well trained, and
they can make that switch. I'm sure that's not a problem.
My question is, you're in -- you're, say, a security guard in the
school, or you're a maintenance person in the school and you've got
the L3 radio, and there's a -- you've got information about the
first -- or about the active shooter, are you able to use that radio to
communicate to the first responders that are coming in?
Now, I know they can communicate with themselves, with each
other, but I want to make sure that everybody in that school system in
that situation is able to communicate. And it sounds like the people
in the school that work in the school that maybe have those radios
won't be able to communicate.
MR. FALGIATORE: So we have the -- there's a limitation, of
course, with capacity, and we're assuming that the users are not
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overloading the site serving that school, which is a very small amount
of capacity at that site. Their traffic is going to inherently be limited
from communicating directly to other users outside of that school
radio site, because in order to prevent users from driving by the
school having the radio see that site and saying, "Hey, that site's
really close. I'm going to roam to site" -- users drive by those schools
all the time, and the radios would incidentally roam and overload that
site. So you have to put -- make it so that site is not roaming enabled.
So the only way to access that site is you change channels on
your radio to a channel that works inside that school. Users
with -- inside that school calling for help on their talk groups, it could
be configured where they could reach a public safety dispatcher. But
unless that dispatcher initiates a patch to a talk group that works on
the outdoor system, that would create a bridge, but it requires
reaching a dispatcher initiating a patch to enable that direct
communication.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And what I'm talking about may
not even make any sense in terms of what is really needed in the real
world. But I think I understand what you're saying.
MR. FALGIATORE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Commissioner -- Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I could shed a little light, because
even for our YRD deputies who are in the schools on a daily basis,
the radios they have now, I still believe they have the ability to be on
what they call AB frequency or AB channel. So they can keep one
on the outside for freq and one on the inside, and if they had to call
outside, they can switch over to B.
MR. FALGIATORE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Hit the B button, and now their
frequencing out on the outside.
June 10, 2025
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MR. FALGIATORE: As long as they have coverage from the
outdoor system wherever they're at. If they don't have coverage,
which is why the sites were picked there, to enhance coverage in the
schools. But that's the limitation is you have to have coverage to the
outdoor system in order to maintain that communication.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Nick, I'm going to ask --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Am I not lit up?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, you were lit up, but you
disappeared.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm going to ask my -- the
same question but in a different way. If we go with your
recommendation and then we give all the L3 Harris equipment to the
school system, do they just acquire more equipment, or does it
actually improve their system? And you sort of answered it a little
bit because what I heard was, "Well, it improves their capability
because a whole bunch of people don't have radios right now in the
buses or, you know, on the outside, and by inheriting a lot more
equipment from the public safety officers who are now going to get,
you know, Motorola, if we went with this option, more people have
radios in their hand."
But does the system still have a lot of limitations for the school
board, but as you said, it's not life or death, so the system isn't -- the
problems aren't exacerbated as much. You know, they're not -- when
they're looking for a bus, it's not in the middle of the gulf the way that
the fire chief said. You know, they don't have that issue. Is
that -- did I sort of put that together in the right way? They're going
to get more equipment but not necessarily an improved system?
MR. FALGIATORE: (Nods head.)
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But the improvement is more
June 10, 2025
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people will be able to talk on the system because they'll have more
equipment, and the limitations that the public service -- or public
safety officers have isn't as -- isn't as prevalent in the school, on the
school side, correct?
MR. FALGIATORE: So it enables them to maintain the level of
capabilities that they have today. So it allows them to have the
platform that their buses can still communicate throughout the
county, and it allows their equipment to continue to connect to the
core and operate the way that it was designed.
It doesn't give them much in the way of additional capability.
What it does give them -- and this, I guess, would be ultimately
determined, that the number of channels that make up the system
today on the high sites, the outdoor sites, they might not need as
many of those for the system moving forward, which would give
them some equipment that they could repurpose, improve capacity at
some of their schools, use it for other reasons.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. FALGIATORE: So it does give them some fixed
equipment, the equipment that goes at the radio sites themselves. It
doesn't necessarily give more end-user equipment. Of course, I
mean, a deal could always be worked out as user agencies upgrade
their radios and, you know, have hand-me-downs that they could then
provide to the school board or another -- you know, another agency,
for that matter. But that would be a different effort. Really, what
they're getting is fixed equipment that goes at the tower sites.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Got it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't
know how I disappeared. Troy left, so I can't really blame him. So I
think you hit the button, so -- but thank you for recognizing me.
My question is twofold, and it has to do with -- I mean, our first
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responders have had issues in the past where there's been service
interruption. I have to believe that depending on the size of the
emergency that transpires, an antenna that gets bumped off a half an
inch will equate to miles out there with its capacity. That same thing
could happen with a Motorola antenna just as quickly or as easily as
the system that we have now.
MR. FALGIATORE: So there -- the answer is it depends on the
amount of resiliency that's built into the system. So from a
microwave perspective, putting in a loop-protected system would
mean that if a microwave dish blows out of alignment, the traffic
goes the other direction.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. FALGIATORE: What we'd also recommend is fiberoptic
backhaul tying into the Sheriff's Office network where if the
microwave blows out, we have a wired line fiber connection that
allows our traffic to d through that direction or have some sort of
diversity. But those are design decisions and options not necessarily
tied to the manufacturer.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. I understand. Thank
you.
And that -- and then the second, when there was the false call of
an active shooter over at DLC, is there not any kind of a triage to not
overload the system? Because there are certain people that are not
critical to the actual mission. A hundred and fifty people respond,
but only a few not -- not a few, but I don't know what the exact
amount is, but it just seems to me that there would be a hierarchy of
people that are able to manage -- manipulate or utilize the system. Is
that not built into the current system that we have?
MR. FALGIATORE: So there's a technology solution, and
there's an operations solution. So technology gives you the ability to
prioritize user groups when the system gets busy, which means the
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system's overloaded, you would initiate a push-to-talk -- you get
placed in a queue. And when a resource opens, your call is placed
and you're able to have that talk go through.
You can set priority on those user groups so that public safety
get earlier access, say, over nonpublic safety users. And there may
be priorities in place in the system today.
So Nathan confirmed, there is priority that's set for public safety
users today. That said, you're already in busy state. You're talking
about improving a bad situation where you're already overloaded, and
that doesn't mean that things are just going to work great because
you're prioritizing public safety traffic.
Those queues -- when you hit that limit and you just hit that
limit, you might have a few users waiting a few seconds. If you're
going above and beyond, that issue cascades a lot higher, and now
you have lots of users waiting a lot of time for channel access.
I'd also add some experience. So I was the consultant for
Broward County when the MSD shooting happened, and so we had a
full understanding of what happened to their system where it got
overloaded during that incident. They were on an older system. It
didn't have -- it wasn't as efficient as P25 and signal processing. And
they were down for hours with calls being overloaded. And they had
to take an operational decision because they could not put a new
system in fast enough to address the need.
So we met with all their users, put together new training
protocols, and tried to come up with a way that says when you have a
certain level of incident, here's a modified communications plan so
that you'll limit it to critical traffic. You consolidate the talk groups
that you're responding on.
There's ways that you can work within your limitation. The
question is, are there compromises and tradeoffs for making those
decisions? Yes, there are. So ideally, we will build the system that
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has the capacity that's needed, but you can do things to improve when
you have a bottleneck to work within what you have available.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good. And I guess my other
statement is for Nathaniel, or whoever's in charge of this. I keep
hearing the school district, the school district, the school district, the
Sheriff's Department. It seems like the Sheriff's department's heading
down a road towards liking Motorola radios better than the L3 Harris
radios.
I think we need to be having some communication with the
school district as to their recent investments, their future investments.
Commissioner LoCastro mentioned something about giving them the
radio system that we -- a lot more information needs to come my
way, all of our way, I would assume, before we can be making these
decisions and to what level of participation.
I see the County Manager raising her hand.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. If it pleases the Board. So if we
could, I have a note here as our next steps, besides to accept the
presentation, would be to ask -- direct staff to work with Mission
Critical Partners, the school district, CCSO, the fire districts, and
EMS to discuss the path forward with all of this information that we
have gathered today, because we do need to make sure that there's
alignment with agencies that are -- many of them are outside of the
direct control of the Board of County Commissioners, but they
really -- these are decisions that need to be made together versus in a
vacuum with everybody going in different directions.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Amy, when do you want to bring
this back?
MS. PATTERSON: If you could give us 60 days, because
scheduling of all of those agencies may be a little bit difficult, but we
could plan to be back at the August 12th agenda to give you an
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update, and that way we would have some choices for you on next
steps, because there's a procurement element to this, too, that we need
to lay out for you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And also a funding source.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. And we do have some of that
we're going to touch on the budget next week.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And you'll work with the school
board --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, and the Sheriff's Office.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It sounds like the recommendation
that was made from a financial standpoint is, perhaps, a sound one,
and I don't know if ultimately we'll go that way, but we just need
more information.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we have a motion.
Commissioner Hall, I assume you'll amend your motion to
reflect what Ms. Patterson said?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a
second.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What I would add,
Ms. Patterson, is we heard just briefly from our current contractor
that they have a $20 million option. I would love to hear a deeper
assessment. I mean, your particular assessment was the two things
you analyzed, but we sort of have a third option sitting out there that I
think needs to be compared against the two options that MCP offered
before we just sort of dismiss the current contractor that we have
now, which we wouldn't, but make sure we work that into the
presentation.
June 10, 2025
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QUESTIONING ATTORNEY: Absolutely, sir. We'll work
with Mission Critical Partners to work with our provider, and we can
go through some of those comments as they provided on the record
today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a
second.
Ms. Patterson, you're clear on the motion?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You'll come back in August?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: A lot of homework to do so we can
make a decision.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It passes unanimously.
Thank you.
Ms. Patterson, we have the add-on item dealing with the
burn -- the fire burn [sic].
MS. PATTERSON: We do. If we -- would you like to take that
item really quickly before the fire -- our fire chiefs leave?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I think we can wrap this
meeting up in five or 10 minutes.
MS. PATTERSON: We do have the Clam Bay item as well,
Item 11C.
June 10, 2025
Page 158
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I thought that was to be continued.
MS. PATTERSON: It was continued, but Commissioner
McDaniel asked for it to be brought to the regular agenda for a
discussion before it may be continued or not continued.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, we can leave him here, while
the rest of us leave, to discuss that.
MS. PATTERSON: Shall we grab the burn ban, and then we
can take a break?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, let's grab the burn ban, and
then we'll take a break.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Very good.
Item #15C1 - Added
RESOLUTION 2025 -122: REPEAL OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
BAN ON OUTDOOR BURNING AND INCENDIARY DEVICES.
(STAFF’S REQUEST) - MOTION TO LIFT THE BAN BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
LOCASTRO - ADOPTED (COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL
OPPOSED)
So we have been -- since we received some rain here over the
last week, we have been receiving correspondence from some of our
residents about lifting the burn ban. We have been in communication
with Forestry and with the fire districts about the possibility of lifting
that ban. They have communicated back that they're in agreement
that the ban can be lifted, but I just wanted to speak to the Board
before we do that.
With a nod, we have a resolution to lift the ban, and we'll get
that executed. But it didn't rain for a few days, so I was a little
nervous. Now the fire chiefs still feel confident in that decision that
June 10, 2025
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it's an appropriate time to lift the ban, and I'm looking at them to see
if they have anything.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: They're nodding in the affirmative.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have a motion, then, to lift
the fire ban?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second to --
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner McDaniel has his light on.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, he does.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I -- did you get a report from
Mr. Summers with regard to not just our fire chiefs but the
meteorlogic --
COMMISSIONER HALL: That word.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- atmospheric conditions with
regard to humidity and so on and so forth?
MS. PATTERSON: Same report, that they consult -- and
Forestry, and all are in agreement on the lifting of the ban. We do
have the maps that show the drought index as well, and we do
actually have rain that's expected this week.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I understand all those
things. I would love to see the ban lifted, by the way, on a personal
note. I've got brush piles that are taller than I am that need to go
away. But on the same token, everything that's green burns, and we
learned that in -- Nolan left already -- when we had the big fire out
east many years ago shortly after I came into office.
And I still know -- we are still at least two feet down from our
normal water levels with regard -- under the surface with regard to
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our water. And I mean, if it's -- it's the will of the Board to lift the
ban, then so be it. But I just have reservations just yet so far in doing
that, so...
MS. PATTERSON: That's the reason that we have this here,
because again, we got a good amount of rain, and then it stopped
raining. So you know the stormwater person in me was a little
anxious.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we have the fire chiefs here.
The Manager's here. We can delay this for two weeks or three
weeks. It's no emergency, so --
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- just tell us what you think is the
best thing to do. The fire chiefs were sort of nodding that it's okay to
go forward with it.
Commissioner Kowal, do you have a recommendation as well?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm not a fireman.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Address the fire chiefs more
than Commissioner McDaniel.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
CHIEF BYRNE: Commissioners, we just briefly consulted and,
yeah, we're comfortable with lifting it now. The drought index has
dropped significantly, and the weather forecast is showing more rain.
It's not that fires won't occur. We're just comfortable that they won't
spread as rapid.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Do we have a motion?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, we had a motion and a
second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And a second. All right. Any
further discussion?
(No response.)
June 10, 2025
Page 161
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, all in favor, signify
by saying.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
That passed unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It did not.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. It passed 4-1.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm voting no. You didn't call
for opposed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel opposed.
We only have one item left, I believe, that -- I'm not sure how
long that's going to take.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It won't take long, if you'll
call on me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we need to take a quick break?
THE COURT REPORTER: (Shakes head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Are you okay?
THE COURT REPORTER: (Nods head.)
Item #11C
ADVERTISE AN ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING THE CLAM
BAY ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO PROVIDE
RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD ON MATTERS
AFFECTING THE ENTIRE CLAM BAY ESTUARY SYSTEM -
MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS ITEM TO THE JULY 8, 2025,
BCC MEETING BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - APPROVED
June 10, 2025
Page 162
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll be quick. I asked for this
item to be called up when it was on the -- on the consent agenda the
last meeting. And, Commissioner LoCastro, you corrected me in not
making a decision on this until Commissioner Hall was back. And
now, Commissioner Hall, I guess my question directly is to you: Are
you in opposition of the formation of this public
committee -- community?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I am.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You are?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, I am.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm actually in the process of
looking at all of our advisory committees and only finding out what's
necessary by statute and maybe streamlining or getting rid of -- we
have so many -- so many committees that never come to us and bring
any advice, but yet we're paying for them. We're staffing them, and
we're providing rooms for them.
And we've got -- Pelican Bay Services Division operates the
estuary. We've got city people that want to do -- that want a voice in
that, but yet they don't bring any money to the table.
And so I would probably -- when this was going to come up, I
was going to -- I would be prepared to talk about splitting the duty
between the city people and the Pelican Bay Services Division and let
the city people create their own MSTU and do what they want to do.
And anyway, that was the discussion that I was going to be prepared
for.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: On the 8th?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Excuse me, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
June 10, 2025
Page 163
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then -- and that was my
rationale for the Public Advisory Committee from Pelican Bay and
the City of Naples. That was my rationale for the establishment of
this. I don't necessarily -- I don't disagree with you at all that we
have a lot of advisory committees, but this circumstance with regard
to Clam Bay has been going on forever. I mean -- and so my
thoughts were to engage the City of Naples onto that advisory board,
develop some sort of a plan with regard to the financial expenses
associated with the management of Clam Bay but for us to not stall
the -- or continue the creation of this committee. We could -- if we
voted to do the committee, we could start soliciting applications, and
then when other -- I believe one of the consultants is out of town, and
one of our other board members has a trip coming up. My thought
was go ahead and agree to do the committee, and then -- and then
finalize it after we've got the applications. It will take us three
months to gather a committee -- or to gather the applicants.
COMMISSIONER HALL: My thoughts were they can meet
without us forming a committee, and they can work it all out and
come up with the same thing without us having to do a formal
committee, and that would be more pleasing to my Pelican Bay
people, because they're -- they don't want that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I agree we've got a lot of committees. There's committees out
there I didn't know even exist because I've never heard from them.
But in reality, I don't agree with -- you say they don't put anything
towards it. In reality, they do. I had conversation with County
Manager. I think we got $200-and-some thousand allotted to that
particular operation that doesn't come from Pelican. Correct me if
I'm wrong.
MS. PATTERSON: In this year's budget, we do have $178,000
June 10, 2025
Page 164
that is -- that is in the project for the NRPA, and a portion of that is
coming from 111. So we're doing some research now to figure out if
this is something that is happening regularly or a special project and
exactly how that's being split; however, I guess it doesn't come from
the city, because if it's coming from 111, that's the unincorporated
county. So it's a little -- it's a little mixture of things.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well -- but also, the work -- the
actual dredging is paid 100 percent by tourism tax dollars, which the
city does provide a lot of bed tax money --
MS. PATTERSON: True.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- towards that fund.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So in reality, the big bulk of it is
spread out amongst citizens in District 4 in the City of Naples.
So I can't just sit here and say they don't have any. They do
have bordering properties on this bay. Actually, their properties are
closer to the bay and affected by the bay more than the
people -- there's a large buffer between the people in Pelican Bay,
between the bay and where their residential homes actually are.
So in reality, I think everybody is all part of Collier County,
either way you look at it. We overlay it, so --
And we had a workshop. I wish we could just have been here
the day of the workshop and said, "Hey, this is all hunky-dory. We'll
just do this and that." But I think the committee coming to the -- end
of the day, it was form a committee and get some individuals from
both entities, and let's sit down and talk it out, you know, so...
COMMISSIONER HALL: That was my point. I would like for
them to work out their own salvation and not have to worry about us.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Ms. Patterson, what was
the consent agenda item number for that?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. That was Item 16K2, now
June 10, 2025
Page 165
Item 11C. And I guess, for the record, I should just read this in. This
is actually the first step in a two-step process. This is a
recommendation to provide direction to advertise an ordinance
establishing the Clam Bay Advisory Committee to provide
recommendations to the Board on matters affecting the entire Clam
Bay Estuary System. Also, each of the Board members should have
received a letter from Pelican Bay about this matter and their
opposition to the item moving forward. They are asking for it to be
continued until the fall because all of the -- many of their residents
are out of town and won't be able to provide -- won't be able to
participate in the discussion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So folks that would have
been interested in this item, if they had gone online, they would have
seen this was to be continued. And the item was simply to advertise
an ordinance.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think what would really be
appropriate would be to actually continue this item. It can be into the
fall or whenever we want to hear it, but I don't think it would be
appropriate to kill this item today.
And so I would entertain a motion if anyone's interested in
continuing this to a certain time, but to go ahead and move it forward
with the understanding that we'll have a public hearing on it. Is that
acceptable?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm game.
MS. PATTERSON: The original date that we were continuing
it to was July 8th, to accommodate both the schedules of Tim Hall,
who's an expert in the Clam Bay Estuary, and Commissioner Kowal,
so he can participate in person.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'll entertain a motion to
continue this till July 8th.
June 10, 2025
Page 166
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion. I'll second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
So that will be advertised for that date?
MS. PATTERSON: It's -- I'm looking at the County Attorney.
So --
MR. KLATZKOW: It's still a request to advertise, unless you
want me to skip that first step and just go and advertise it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, no. I just --
MR. KLATZKOW: My assumption was there's going to be
changes made to the ordinance.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's go ahead and just
put it on the agenda for discussion.
MS. PATTERSON: Very good. Thank you.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
June 10, 2025
Page 167
Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15. Item 15A is public
comments on general topics not on the current or future agenda by
individuals not already heard during the previous public comments in
this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
MS. PATTERSON: Next is Item 15B, staff project updates.
We have none today.
Item #15C2
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
WAIVED THE ADOPTION FEES FOR DOMESTIC ANIMAL
SERVICES (DAS) AT THE PETCO LOVE FLORIDA MEGA
ADOPTION EVENT FROM JUNE 27TH THROUGH JUNE 29TH -
MOTION TO WAIVE THE FEES BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - APPROVED
Next, Item 15C, staff and commission general communications.
We've already covered the burn ban.
The only other item that I have is a request for Domestic Animal
Services to participate in the PetCo Love Florida Mega Adoption
event from June 27th to 29th. It does require us to waive the
adoption fees on -- the Domestic Animal Services director has broad
discretion in lowering fees, but she needs the Board's approval to
waive fees.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's your recommendation,
to waive the fees?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. This will bring a lot of publicity
and hopefully adoptions to Domestic Animal Services.
June 10, 2025
Page 168
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Do we have a motion to that
effect?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll make -- okay. We have a
motion. I'll second it, to waive the adoption fees for this event.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: That's all I have.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm good.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Nothing, thanks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
I have one quick question. Since we had such an elongated
discussion about towers and radio communication, I was -- there was
a proposed cell tower radio down in the middle of nowhere that may
help with this. And is there any updates on that? And we don't
necessarily have to do that now, but I made a note on it to ask about
that, because I haven't heard since we pushed that on down the road.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. I had seen some correspondence a
June 10, 2025
Page 169
while back that there was the potential for the tower to remain on the
existing site, but I don't know what headway they've made on that.
I'll make a note to get an update.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I fired -- I know I had a
meeting with Superintendent Ramos. I know I met with the mayor. I
know I met with folks out on the East Trail. I know that there were
multiple sites that I had proposed for that tower -- or that cell tower
could, in fact, go other than the site that was -- the old firehouse.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I would just like for that
to stay on the front burner so we get that taken care of.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have nothing as well.
We are adjourned.
*****
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
LoCastro, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
RECORDING THE PLAT OF DEL WEBB NAPLES PARCELS
500-505 (APPLICATION NUMBER PL20230014890), APPROVAL
OF THE STANDARD FORM CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT, AND APPROVAL OF THE
PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF
$4,437,831.20
June 10, 2025
Page 170
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A
PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES
AND APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR TREE FARM
COMMERCIAL, PL20250000995 - FINAL INSPECTION WAS
CONDUCTED BY STAFF AND FOUD THESE FACILITIES
SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABE ON MARCH 31, 2025
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A
PORTION OF THE WATER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR ROADIES
AT FOUNDERS SQUARE, PL20250002581 - FINAL INSPECTION
WAS CONDUCTED BY STAFF AND FOUD THESE FACILITIES
SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABE ON MARCH 28, 2025
Item #16A4
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITIES FACILITIES
AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF THE SEWER
FACILITIES FOR MINNITI RESIDENCE, PL20250000739 -
FINAL INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED BY STAFF AND FOUD
THESE FACILITIES SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABE ON
APRIL 10, 2025
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
June 10, 2025
Page 171
AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR 6100 TRAIL BLVD. SEWER
CONNECTION, PL20240000367 - FINAL INSPECTION WAS
CONDUCTED BY STAFF AND FOUD THESE FACILITIES
SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABE ON SEPTEMBER 6, 2024
Item #16A6
RESOLUTION 2025-116: FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS FOR THE FINAL
PLAT OF GREYHAWK AT THE GOLF CLUB OF THE
EVERGLADES PHASE 4, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20180002724, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $370,496.51 -
GROWTH MANAGEMENT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
DEPARTMENT INSPECTED THE IMPROVEMENTS ON
OCTOBER 31, 2024
Item #16A7
CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A PERFORMANCE BOND
IN THE AMOUNT OF $10,000, WHICH WAS POSTED AS A
DEVELOPMENT GUARANTEE FOR AN EARLY WORK
AUTHORIZATION (EWA) FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH
CREATIVE COMMONS, PL20230011142
Item #16A8
BUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE I-75 AND COLLIER
BOULEVARD (951) INNOVATION ZONE FUND (1031)
June 10, 2025
Page 172
REALLOCATING RESERVE FUNDING FOR THE FIRST
AMENDMENT TO THE CONTRIBUTION AGREEMENT WITH
ULINE CORPORATION C/O CITY GATE NAPLES, LLC (ULINE)
IN THE AMOUNT OF $557,874.90
Item #16A9
RELEASE OF A CODE ENFORCEMENT LIEN WITH AN
ACCRUED VALUE OF $60,900 FOR A REDUCED PAYMENT OF
$18,842.60 IN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTION TITLED
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VS. DAHINET
VARONA, IN SPECIAL MAGISTRATE CASE
NO. CENA20220009117, RELATING TO PROPERTY
LOCATED AT 171 14TH ST. SE, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16A10
CONSERVATION COLLIER ANNUAL REPORT, PROGRAM
MANUAL, AND TO SOLICIT ACQUISITION PROPOSALS AND
APPLICATIONS FROM THE PUBLIC
Item #16A11
EASEMENT TO FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY FOR
RELOCATION OF AN EXISTING TRANSFORMER TO
ACCOMMODATE THE PARKING LOT MODIFICATIONS AT
THE PELICAN BAY COMMUNITY PARK AT 764 VANDERBILT
BEACH ROAD, NAPLES, FLORIDA 34108
Item #16A12
June 10, 2025
Page 173
ONE-YEAR EXTENSION TO THE MEMORANDUM OF
UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE EARLY
LEARNING COALITION OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA INC., TO
PROVIDE LOCAL MATCH FUNDING FOR $75,000 IN FISCAL
YEAR 2026
Item #16B1
SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
STAFF TO BEGIN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH DRMP,
INC., RELATED TO REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
(“RPS”) NO. 24-8286, “DESIGN SERVICES FOR IMMOKALEE
ROAD AND LIVINGSTON ROAD FLYOVER,” SO STAFF CAN
BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK FOR THE BOARD’S
CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE MEETING
Item #16B2
A PAYMENT OF $21,335.00 TO TEMPLE INC., FOR
MATERIALS THAT WERE LOST IN A PACKAGE SHIPPED VIA
FEDEX - THE BOXES CONTAINED A TOTAL OF 64 POUNDS
OF INDIVIDUALLY WRAPPED CLOCK CONTROLLERS FOR
FLASHING SCHOOL SIGNALS (27 ITEMS IN TOTAL)
Item #16B3
FIRST AMENDMENTS TO THE AGREEMENTS FOR SALE AND
PURCHASE FOR THE ACQUISITION OF ONE (1) UNIT FROM
JOSEPH D. STEWART, P.A., AND FOURTEEN (14) UNITS FROM
BIGI & BIGI, LLC, WITHIN THE COURT PLAZA III BUILDING
June 10, 2025
Page 174
LOCATED AT 2671 AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD SOUTH, TO
EXTEND THE INSPECTION PERIOD TO SEPTEMBER 23, 2025,
AND THE CLOSING DEADLINES TO NOVEMBER 22, 2025, OR
WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF THE COUNTY’S RECEIPT OF ALL
CLOSING DOCUMENTS, WHICHEVER IS LATER
Item #16B4
INVITATION TO BID NO. 25-8343, “ROADWAY STRIPING,” TO
MCSHEA CONTRACTING, LLC, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT
Item #16B5
RESOLUTION 2025-117: CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A SMALL
COUNTY OUTREACH PROGRAM (SCOP) STATE-FUNDED
GRANT AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) REIMBURSING COLLIER
COUNTY UP TO $985,275.00 TO CONSTRUCT PAVED
SHOULDERS AND WIDEN TRAVEL LANES ON IMMOKALEE
ROAD (CR 846) FROM WEST OF BRIDGE NO. 034832 TO EAST
OF BRIDGE NO. 034832; TO EXECUTE A RESOLUTION
MEMORIALIZING THE BOARD’S ACTION; AND AUTHORIZE
ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS, FPN 454028-1-54-
01. (FUND 1841, PROJECT NO. 60253)
Item #16B6
AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO THE LPA0268 AGREEMENT WITH
THE STATE OF FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION STANDARD GRANT
June 10, 2025
Page 175
AGREEMENT FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY GOLDEN GATE
CITY WATER RESOURCE PROTECTION/RESTORATION
MASTER PLAN TO EXTEND THE GRANT EXPIRATION DATE
TO MARCH 31, 2027 (PROJECT NO. 33842)
Item #16B7
AGREEMENT FOR THE DONATION OF A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT (PARCEL 124DE) REQUIRED FOR THE
EVERGLADES CITY DRAINAGE PROJECT. ESTIMATED
FISCAL IMPACT: $100
Item #16B8
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECOGNIZE THE RECOVERY OF
COLLIER COUNTY FUNDS TOTALING $47,885.86, RELATED
TO INSURANCE CLAIMS INVOLVING A DAMAGED COLLIER
AREA TRANSIT BUS SHELTER - LOCATED ON THE EAST
SIDE OF WILSON BOULEVARD, JUST NORTH OF GOLDEN
GATE BOULEVARD WEST
Item #16B9
RESOLUTION 2025-118: COUNTY MANAGER TO EXECUTE
THE STATE FY2025/26 TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED
TRIP & EQUIPMENT GRANT AGREEMENT AND ANY
ANCILLARY DOCUMENTS WITH THE FLORIDA
COMMISSION FOR THE TRANSPORTATION
DISADVANTAGED IN THE AMOUNT OF $740,173 WITH A
LOCAL MATCH OF $82,241, TO CONTINUE OPERATION, AND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
June 10, 2025
Page 176
Item #16B10
FY 2025/26 TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED PLANNING
GRANT FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF $31,757 TO THE
COLLIER METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION
FROM THE COMMISSION FOR THE TRANSPORTATION
DISADVANTAGED AND TO AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENT. (FUND 1841, PROJECT NO. 33944)
Item #16B11
COLLIER METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION’S
ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET FOR FY 2025/26 AND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT IN
THE AMOUNT OF $1,178,086, EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2025. (FUND
1841, PROJECT NO. 33908)
Item #16B12
(“ITB”) NO. 23-8154, “COUNTY BARN RD PATHWAYS (LAP),”
TO RJ ENGINEERING CONSTRUCTION CORPORATION IN
THE AMOUNT OF $3,023,344.44, APPROVE OWNER’S
ALLOWANCE OF $200,000, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CONSTRUCTION
SERVICES AGREEMENT AND APPROVE THE BUDGET
AMENDMENT
Item #16C1
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AS THE EX
June 10, 2025
Page 177
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
WATER-SEWER DISTRICT, AWARD INVITATION TO BID NO.
24-8321 TO DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF
$3,417,868. (PROJECT NO. 70234) FOR THE FOXFIRE
SUPPLEMENTAL WELLS PROJECT, APPROVE AN OWNER’S
ALLOWANCE OF $282,000, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT
Item #16D1
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN AMENDMENT TWO TO THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF ELDER AFFAIRS (DOEA) AGREEMENT
#XF305 TO EXTEND THE PERIOD OF PERFORMANCE FOR
THE GOLDEN GATE SENIOR CENTER EXPANSION AND
HARDENING PROJECT. (FUND 1835 HOUSING GRANT, FUND
1839 PUBLIC SERVICE GRANT, FUND 1806 GENERAL FUNDS,
AND FUND 3001 COUNTY-WIDE CAPITAL PROJECT)
Item #16D2
GRANT DONATION FROM THE EILEEN AND CONO FUSCO
FUND THROUGH THE FIDELITY CHARITABLE DONOR-
ADVISED FUND GRANT PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF
$100, FOR GENERAL SUPPORT OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
LIBRARY AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENT. (PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839)
Item #16D3
FIRST AMENDMENT FOR REVISIONS TO COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT SUBRECIPIENT
June 10, 2025
Page 178
AGREEMENT #CD23-03 BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
RENAISSANCE HALL SENIOR LIVING, LLLP, IN THE
AMOUNT OF $329,706.00 FOR PRECONSTRUCTION COSTS
ASSOCIATED WITH PHASE II SENIOR RENTAL HOUSING
(HOUSING GRANTS FUND 1835)
Item #16D4
ROUND 2 FUNDING FROM THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT
CYBERSECURITY GRANT PROGRAM, ADMINISTERED BY
THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF MANAGEMENT SERVICES,
TO SUPPORT CYBERSECURITY APPLICATIONS AND
UPGRADES FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY INFORMATION
TECHNOLOGY (IT) DIVISION. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION
FOR THE COUNTY MANAGER OR THEIR DESIGNEE TO
EXECUTE ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTS TO ACCEPT THE
AWARD, IN AN ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF $285,440.00
Item #16F1
(“ITB”) NO. 24-8289, “PELICAN BAY DECORATIVE STREET
SIGN FABRICATION & INSTALLATION SERVICES,” TO
PROJECT COMBO, INC., D/B/A LYKINS SIGNTEK, INC., AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT
Item #16F2
RESOLUTION 2025-119: AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING
GRANTS, DONATIONS, CONTRIBUTIONS OR INSURANCE
PROCEEDS) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED
June 10, 2025
Page 179
BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED
RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE
EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES.)
Item #16F3
REPORT COVERING BUDGET AMENDMENTS IMPACTING
RESERVES UP TO AND INCLUDING $25,000
Item #16F4
FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE LEASE AGREEMENT WITH
AVERSANA AT HAMMOCK BAY CONDOMINIUM
ASSOCIATION, INC., AUTHORIZING COLLIER COUNTY TO
CONTINUE THE OPERATION OF PUBLIC SAFETY
COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT PREVIOUSLY INSTALLED
AT 1060 BORGHESE LANE, NAPLES, FLORIDA 34114
Item #16J1
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SERVE AS THE
LOCAL COORDINATING UNIT OF GOVERNMENT FOR THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT’S
FEDERAL FISCAL YEAR 2024 EDWARD BYRNE MEMORIAL,
JUSTICE ASSISTANCE GRANT (JAG) COUNTYWIDE
PROGRAM AND (1) AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
EXECUTE THE CERTIFICATION OF PARTICIPATION AND
SIGN THE LETTER OF SUPPORT; (2) DESIGNATE THE
SHERIFF AS THE OFFICIAL APPLICANT AND THE SHERIFF’S
OFFICE STAFF AS GRANT FINANCIAL AND PROGRAM
June 10, 2025
Page 180
MANAGERS; (3) AUTHORIZE THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE
GRANT IF AND WHEN AWARDED; AND (4) APPROVE
ASSOCIATED BUDGET AMENDMENTS AND APPROVE THE
COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE TO RECEIVE AND
EXPEND THE GRANT FUNDS
Item #16J2
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PROVIDE APPROVAL
FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA E911 BOARD/E911 STATE
GRANT PROGRAM AND FOR THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
GRANT APPLICATION AND MOU ADDENDUM
Item #16J3
RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $37,291,986.74 WERE DRAWN FOR THE
PERIODS BETWEEN MAY 15, 2025, AND MAY 28, 2025,
PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06 ____
Item #16J4
BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND PURCHASING
CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF JUNE 4, 2025
Item #16K1
June 10, 2025
Page 181
A $26,222.89 SETTLEMENT WITH ROBERTS DRILLING, INC.,
FOR DAMAGES CAUSED TO A 12-INCH WATER MAIN NEAR
THE INTERSECTION OF MAINSAIL DRIVE AND COLLIER
BOULEARD, IN COUNTY COURT CASE NO. 23-CC-2693; AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE A STANDARD
FORM RELEASE
Item #16K2 (Moved to Item #11C per Change Sheet)
THIS ITEM CONTINUED TO THE JULY 8, 2025, BCC MEETING
AGENDA AND ITEM WAS PREVIOUSLY CONTINUED FROM
THE MAY 13, 2025, BCC MEETING. RECOMMENDATION TO
PROVIDE DIRECTION TO ADVERTISE AN ORDINANCE
ESTABLISHING THE CLAM BAY ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO
PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD ON
MATTERS AFFECTING THE ENTIRE CLAM BAY ESTUARY
SYSTEM
Item #16K3
RETENTION AGREEMENT FOR LEGAL SERVICES WITH
JACKSON LEWIS P.C. FOR SPECIALIZED CYBER SECURITY
AND DATA PRIVACY LEGAL SERVICES ON AN AS-NEEDED
BASIS
Item #16K4
RESOLUTION 2025-120: APPOINT LEYANIS MUNIZ TO THE
LIBRARY ADVISORY BOARD - TERM EXPIRING ON
DECEMBER 31, 2026
June 10, 2025
Page 182
Item #16K5
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AGAINST NOAH ALLEN WAYSON IN THE
COUNTY COURT OF THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN
AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, TO RECOVER
DAMAGES FOR THE REPAIR OF COLLIER COUNTY
PROPERTY TOTALING $5,062.05, PLUS COSTS OF
LITIGATION
Item #16K6
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $95,000
PLUS $20,604 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS’
FEES AND COSTS FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1341FEE
REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD
EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60249
Item #16K7
ADVERTISE AN AMENDMENT TO THE INNOVATION
ZONE ORDINANCE TO REMOVE ANY CAP ON THE TRUST
FUND, ALLOW THE BOARD TO TRANSFER FUNDS HELD BY
INNOVATION TRUST FUNDS BACK TO THE CONTRIBUTING
FUNDS, UPON A FINDING THAT THE AMOUNT HELD IN THE
FUND IS GREATER THAN THE ANTICIPATED NEED OF THE
INNOVATION ZONE, AND EXTEND THE AVE MARIA
INNOVATION ZONE FOR ANOTHER 10 YEARS
June 10, 2025
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 2: 15 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
-C ' ''STAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
T, � e.�nir� �tes ap red by the Board on 1 2- °) 5
,pr�seti'ed or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 183