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BCC Minutes 06/03/2025 W (Draft)June 3, 2025 Page 1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida - June 3, 2025 WORKSHOP LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present: Chairman: Burt L. Saunders Dan Kowal Chris Hall Rick LoCastro William L. McDaniel, Jr. ALSO PRESENT: Amy Patterson, County Manager Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations June 3, 2025 Page 2 MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Patterson. Welcome to our workshop. We're going to start off with the Pledge of Allegiance. Colonel LoCastro, could you lead us in the Pledge? Item #1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - PLEDGE LED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, yes, sir. Thank you. Please join me. Veterans, hand salute. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The first part of our workshop this morning is dealing with the Mental Health Strategic Plan. Ms. Patterson, could you go ahead and get us launched on that? Item #2A MENTAL HEALTH STRATEGIC PLAN - PRESENTED BY TONYA L. DEDERING, CFRE, TL DEDERING AND ASSOCIATES, LLC WITH OTHER PRESENTERS FOR PRIORITIES 1 - 5; DISCUSSED MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We do have a representative for the strategic plan that's going to be appearing on Zoom, so we have her ready to go. But we will start with Item 2A, Mental Health Strategic June 3, 2025 Page 3 Plan, and we have our -- several members of the public here to speak on parts of this, so we will get this started with David Lawrence Center. MS. DAUPHINAIS: Thank you. Commissioners, Nancy Dauphinais, chair of the Coalition for Healthy Minds. And I'd like to introduce our strategic planning facilitator, Tonya Dedering, who's joining us from Wisconsin. MS. DEDERING: Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me okay in your room? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, we can. MS. DEDERING: Okay. Excellent. Thank you for inviting me to be part of the meeting today. My name is Tonya Dedering. And I'm not seeing the PowerPoint slide deck. Is that something that's going to be pulled up? There we go. Thank you. (Announcement playing in the background.) COMMISSIONER HALL: Good job, Troy. MS. DEDERING: It appears there's an announcement where I am. It will be just one moment. MS. DAUPHINAIS: She's with us from the Mayo Clinic. MS. DEDERING: Yeah. I'm in a -- I'm in a medical location. There was just an announcement that I was not aware of. So I'll go ahead and get started. Again, welcome to the Collier Coalition for Healthy Minds Strategic Plan Workshop today. My name is Tonya Dedering. And a little background about myself. I was brought on to be the facilitator just about a year ago. After 40 years of the non-profit sector leadership experience as well as for-profit sector experience in Wisconsin, I opened my own business called TL Dedering & Associates, and I June 3, 2025 Page 4 advise and coach non-profits. I was introduced to the Coalition after a conversation with Eileen Connolly-Keesler from the Collier Community Foundation. And I met Eileen when she worked in Wisconsin as a CEO of the Oshkosh Area Community Foundation prior to moving to Naples. I inquired about potential consulting needs in the area, as my family was looking to purchase a home in Southwest Florida, which we've done. And I look forward to this meeting today and the opportunity to have served as a facilitator. Having the outside facilitator really does allow a neutral eye for such a project like this. Strategic planning tools and best practices were used throughout this session in the journey, making it a neutral and a fair process. I'd like to thank the commissioners for your past support of the first plan that was a really strong springboard for the plan that is presented to you as proposed today. Due to a family priority, I will be on the call for these first 10 or 15 minutes, then I'll need to drop off just as Michael Overway will step up and talk about Strategy No. 2. As you see -- as you see on the screen, the Strategic Doing framework was used, and the Strategic Doing framework is strong because it has two key areas of focus. It focuses on accelerating innovation and change and collaborations that cross boundaries both inside and outside of the organizations. So this was really ideal for this type of a project with this important community initiative with multiple agencies and organizations involved crossing many boundaries in Collier County. It was a thoughtful process with input from dedicated existing members as well as new members and June 3, 2025 Page 5 experts in their field, which is really positioned quite nicely to form this new plan. It was created with a commitment to data- and evidence-based approaches, and this data-driven approach will continue to provide the insights for decision-making even ongoing. At the completion of the first three workshops of the Coalition, members identified three areas of focus that needed to be addressed to ensure the success of the new strategic plan. And they are -- the first was recruiting new members, and this was really key to recruit members and leaders with specific skills and expertise to execute the proposed strategies and to bring information to the table to form the strategies. To date, 17 new members were recruited to join the newly formed coalition. Number 2 was the coalition organizational structure. It was essential to form the framework for the Coalition to level up and to serve the community. To date the bylaws have been prepared and approved, memo of agreement has been established for all the members, and a new-member application and process has been outlined and is in place. I'd like to thank the officers who have stepped up to take -- and were appointed by the Coalition to take leadership roles. First is Nancy Dauphinais as chair, Beth Hatch as the Vice Chair, Lieutenant Weidenhammer as the secretary, Lindsay Touchette as the treasurer, and Scott Burgess as the past chairperson. The third area of focus is financial sustainability. The members agree this was essential to address the financial state of the Coalition as well as important to do that so we could sufficiently execute the identified strategies and June 3, 2025 Page 6 sustain the work of the Coalition. During this journey, there were a total of 11 planning meetings for all coalition members that took place between August of '24 to April of '25. There were 20-plus work group meetings that took place to form and cocreate the strategies and to gain approval from each strategy leader. We researched and reviewed about 50-plus documents that will remain on file for reference to coalition members. And again, 17 new members were recruited and joined the Coalition. The result is the proposed strategic plan that we invite you to review to provide your insights and to help us move the plan forward to its final form. In conclusion, I was quite impressed with the group -- the entire membership, the new and the former members, a great deal of dedication to create the plan and willingness to work together to make it happen. Members who were welcome, like-minded and dedicated professionals as the new members to the group and, of course, from organizations of all sizes, to ensure that we had membership voice equity. And all members were focused on ensuring services were identified and proposed to meet the needs of the Collier citizens. Words that come to mind as I reflect on the project are committed, focused, motivated, realistic, willing, community-minded, date-driven, problem-solving, challenging, thoughtful, and last but not least, professional. It was really great to see the right people come together at the right time to create this proposed plan. Now let's formally acknowledge a few of the members of the Coalition that worked diligently to create this strategic June 3, 2025 Page 7 plan. Eileen Connolly-Keesler and Lindsay Touchette from the Community Foundation for funding the facilitation of this plan and for their investment in serving the community. Next would be Judge Martin. She's leading Strategy No. 4, which is the justice system response, and she worked extremely hard this past year to have two training sessions for the justice system personnel and was extremely dedicated to the Coalition stepping up many times to support us. Lieutenant Weidenhammer, newly appointed secretary of the Coalition, for her leadership in securing funding in the first plan for the transportation plan which now is moving under No. 1, which is the central receiving facility. Beth Hatch, for your leadership, Beth, and your support in forming this plan and to step in as the vice chair of Coalition. Dale Mullin, the founder of Warrior Homes Collier -- and most of you know the good work that he has done this past couple of years, and he is now leading a new strategy, which is enhanced housing and service for veterans. In the last plan, the veterans was special considerations, and it got moved up to a separate strategy this year. Nancy Dauphinais, for your exceptional leadership in the Coalition and for leading a new strategy, No. 3, workforce development, which you will hear about shortly. Michael Overway, for his support in leadership in housing strategy, which will continue in this new plan. Megan Edwards, a new member from the Baker Senior Center, and she is leading the newly formed special considerations for older adults which will support all of the June 3, 2025 Page 8 strategies you will hear about today. Scott Burgess for his leadership as the past chair of the Coalition and for leading strategy No. 1, central receiving facility, and the transportation plan. And, Commissioner LoCastro. Thank you for your dedication, Commissioner, to the work of the Coalition over the years, attending the meetings providing necessary insights, and for your support in this journey, we acknowledge your leadership and support. And for all those listed on the screen that you see there, it's truly been a strong collaboration with numerous people coming to the table in order to support (Zoom audio cut out) Collier citizens. The participation is acknowledged and highly valued. As part of the strategy structure, the mission, vision, and values was reviewed. So as you can see on the screen here, the mission remained exactly the same as the collaborative plan that will support the coordinated effort using the vast array of the evidence informed services, and it's really about improving the lives of adults with mental health and substance use disorder and that overall quality of life in Collier County. The vision was created, and you see that listed there, which is really to focus on comprehensive evidence informed mental health leading to improve lives overall. And going on to the -- to the next -- now I'd like to just do a real brief review of the five strategies that you will learn more about today. Number 1 is build and operate the central receiving facility and revise and implement the Collier Transportation Plan. We won't talk about that right now. That will come June 3, 2025 Page 9 later in the presentation. The second is going to be No. 2, which continues from the prior plan, and that is maintain and increase housing supports for individuals with serious mental illness and substance use disorder. Number 3, this one is new, as mentioned prior. This is strengthen the behavioral health workforce. You'll hear about that today also. Number 4 continues in the plan. That's increase the capacity and effectiveness of the justice system response to mental illness and substance use. And No. 5 is also new, and that is -- it was a special consideration in the former plan, and it's now on its own as enhanced access to housing and services for veterans. Special considerations for older adults remains, and that would be over all of the five proposed strategies, and new would be the support strategies you see listed there. It was agreed that prevention, education, and advocacy as well as data collaborative would be considered support strategies for all of the proposed five strategies you see listed here today. The next slide is simply a graphic image of what we just discussed. And then as we go into the last slide, now that we have reviewed how the plan was created, acknowledged leaders and organizations that have worked so hard to get to where you are today, and learned about what the strategies are, it's time to hear from the strategy leaders. Again, No. 1, we'll pass on that for the time being. Number 2. Now before I introduce Michael, I would like to express my gratitude to the Collier Community June 3, 2025 Page 10 Foundation, to the leadership team of the Coalition, and to all members of the Coalition for the opportunity to serve as your facilitator. It's really been an honor to partner with you. And while my time has concluded, I'll stay in touch, and I will absolutely remain invested in seeing how the plan progresses. I've been very impressed with the work of everyone that has participated in this, especially as the outside eye and the neutral eye. It's been -- it's been enlightening and rewarding to see how hard everyone is coming together to serve the county. And, Commissioners, I remain a resource for you and welcome a phone call, a video call, or an email should you want to discuss any portion of the plan further with myself or the plan creation process itself. So, again, thank you all for the opportunity to serve the Coalition. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MS. DEDERING: I'll be dropping off the call shortly. You're welcome. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Dedering. MS. DEDERING: You're welcome. Next, I would like to introduce Michael Overway. He's the executive director of the Southwest Florida Regional Coalition to End Hopelessness and the leader of Strategy No. 2, which is to maintain and increase housing and supportive services for individuals with serious mental illness and substance use disorder. So, Michael. MR. OVERWAY: Thank you, Tonya. Good morning, Commissioners, and thank you for the opportunity to speak today at this workshop. June 3, 2025 Page 11 My name is Michael Overway. As Tonya had indicated, I am the CEO for the Southwest Florida Regional Coalition to End Homelessness. And I am here to speak on a matter that not only affects individuals and families but the overall health, safety, and well-being of our community, the urgent need for affordable and supportive housing for residents living with mental health and substance use disorders. In Collier County, like many communities across the Florida, we are seeing a growing number of individuals struggling to find and keep safe, stable housing, especially those navigating the challenges of behavioral health. In fact, at our most recent homeless point-in-time count this past January, 61 individuals were surveyed. They self-identified as having a mental health or substance use disorder. Now, while 61 doesn't sound like a big number, that was actually 61 just surveyed in one day. Without a secure place to receive help, like St. Matthew's House, Warrior Homes of Collier, and the proposed DLC or central receiving facility, folks, to live in affordable housing, recovery becomes more difficult and the crisis of emergency rooms, jails, and homelessness continues at a great human and financial cost. Affordable housing is more than a roof over someone's head. For individuals with mental health and substance use disorders, it is the cornerstone of their recovery. Research and local experience, of which you have a plethora of in this room today, show that supportive housing leads to better health outcomes, reduces reliance on emergency services, and allows people to contribute meaningfully to our community. June 3, 2025 Page 12 We have an opportunity, in fact, it's a responsibility, to invest in solutions that work. That includes collaborating with local providers, leveraging local, state, and federal resources, and creating incentives for affordable and integrated housing development. This is not just a social issue. It is an economic, public safety, and a moral one. I urge the Commission to prioritize affordable housing that includes supportive services so that we can build a healthier, more compassionate, and more resilient Collier County for all. At this time, I would like to take a brief moment to introduce our next speaker, Beth Hatch. Beth is the chief executive officer of NAMI Collier, a leading non-profit dedicated to improving the lives of individuals affected by mental illness through advocacy, education, support, and public awareness. With a deep commitment to mental health and community well-being, Beth brings both passion and strategic vision to her role. Under her leadership, NAMI has expanded its reach and impact, offering innovative programs that support individuals and families navigating mental health challenges. Beth has been instrumental in strengthening collaborations across healthcare, education, and public sectors ensuring that services are accessible, compassionate, and rooted in best practices. She is a respected voice in the mental health community, and Beth continues to drive forward the mission of NAMI with empathy, insight, and an unwavering dedication to advocacy and inclusion. My friend Beth. MS. PATCH: Thank you, Michael, for your kind June 3, 2025 Page 13 words. Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you so much for having us here today and for your time with all these very important critical issues that we have in our community. Michael truly hit it all when it comes to having that basic need, that foundation that we all need. Before we can get to mental health, we have to have a safe place to lay our head each night. And NAMI has been a -- I'm really proud of the work we've done, especially this past year. And many of you attended the ribbon cutting at Ekos, Rattlesnake Hammock, for the senior living, and we are proud to have placed in November and April, 31 seniors that are participants of NAMI. And it's not about just placing them into that new community. It's about the wraparound and the continued support and sustainability of their success. And I have someone here today to share that. But this priority is so important along with all the others, from the central receiving to transportation. But thank you for taking time to consider this this morning because it is just the basic needs, and then you can leave it to us to be able to continue to meet their needs for a lifelong of change. It is my pleasure to introduce Daryl Evans. He's one of our NAMI participants, and we were thrilled to move him into Ekos in November, and he has a little bit about -- to share. So I know many of you were involved in that expansion of the housing ability for seniors, and we thank you. Daryl. MR. EVANS: Good morning, Commissioners. I'd like June 3, 2025 Page 14 to say that from your contributions and assistance with NAMI, I have been a beneficiary of your work, your contributions. I met some of you at the ribbon-cutting ceremony, and I thank you very much for your help and support. If it wasn't for your support, I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in now. I was once outside and homeless, and now I am inside my own apartment, fully furnished, thanks to NAMI and your contributions to assisting NAMI, and I'm getting assistance through Physicians Regional hospital to take care of my high blood pressure and my other medical conditions of posttraumatic stress. And I thank you for all that you've done. If it wasn't for your collaboration and assistance, then there would be a lot of individuals such as myself, seniors, that would be homeless and destitute and not having a place to stay. I'd also like to say that the challenges that I face now are the increased costs in the cost of living, utilities, groceries, and things of that nature. Being on a fixed income, there are challenges that I still face. But I can honestly say I may not have the key to the city, but I have the key to my own apartment thanks to NAMI and the county. Thank you all very much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, Daryl, thank you for -- (Applause.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you for sharing that with us this morning. MS. DAUPHINAIS: To represent Priority 3, which is a new priority, strengthening the behavioral health workforce, we have a short message from Dr. Courtney June 3, 2025 Page 15 Whitt, the director of the Florida Center for Behavioral Health Workforce at USF. DR. WHITT: (Via video Zoom) Commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today. I am Dr. Courtney Whitt, the executive director of the Florida Center for Behavioral Health Workforce. We were legislatively commissioned in July of 2024 to grow, retain, and innovate the state's behavioral health workforce through research, dissemination of best practices, education, policies analysis, and, of course, to succeed in any of it, collaboration. We are proudly housed at the University of South Florida but stand in service to the state. I come to this role inspired and on a mission from eight and a half years of clinical and administrative service and strategic community engagement in Collier County. Then and now workforce shortages were a critical threat to timely access to services when and where an individual or family needed it the most. More specifically, in Collier County, there's only one behavioral health provider for every 860 Collier residents. This is relative to a state ratio of 490-to-1 and a U.S. ratio of 320-to-1, and this varies by discipline. For example, our analysis show that there are less than three psychologists, only two psychiatric mental health nurse practitioners, 1.4 psychiatrists, and one licensed marriage and family therapist for every 10,000 residents. Further, these numbers do not account for individuals who hold residence in a home state but spent substantial time in Collier County and utilize services, nor do these numbers ensure that a licensed Collier provider sees patients full-time or at all, nor does it ensure that they accept June 3, 2025 Page 16 insurance, including Medicare or other commercial insurances. Workforce threats compromise getting ahead of crises as well as continuity of care which we know is essential for building trust, making the meaningful progress to resolve symptoms, improve functioning, and buffer against relapse. They also undermine our efforts to reach new heights of innovation and service delivery. And while there's an incredible spirit of partnership and collaboration in Collier, we also recognize we could create new positions, but we are not growing the workforce sufficiently to function optimally. And if one of us were vulnerable with our primary care, schools, outpatient services, or crisis units, we were all vulnerable. I am incredibly excited by what can be achieved with the county stamp of support for the next chapter of the Collier County Mental Health and Substance Use Strategic Plan, which now includes workforce as a strategic imperative. The Florida Center for Behavioral Health Workforce helped to contribute to the development of the plan and is willing to provide technical assistance and support to this end. And I personally have no doubt this could be one more example where Collier can be a model of excellence and define what's possible statewide. Thank you for your consideration. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MS. DAUPHINAIS: For Priority No. 4, we have a message from the Honorable Janeice Martin. JUDGE MARTIN: (Via video) Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. It's my privilege to June 3, 2025 Page 17 champion our fourth priority and offer you a very short update on what we're doing to address these needs within the justice system. I want to start by thanking you for the incredibly warm welcome that you each gave our group last month when we came in for the drug court proclamation. Your very authentic and public display of support for the men and women we serve meant the world to our clients and our team, and we are grateful to each of you for your leadership in this very powerful aspect of our justice response to behavioral health. As you are well familiar with the work of our problem-solving courts, those being drug court, mental health court, and veterans treatment court, I want to mention very briefly another angle from which we are working to improve the justice response to persons with behavioral health needs. A subcommittee from this coalition worked very hard to build a one-day intensive training taught by local professionals which targets all staff within the courthouse from clerks to guardians ad litem to prosecutors, public defenders, civil attorneys, judges, and judicial assistants. The goal of the training is to provide everyone who labors in this building with a basic competency regarding mental health disorders, substance use disorders, various treatment modalities, trauma, and its impacts on behavioral health, and also resiliency, and its power to not only bring recovery to those who have these disorders, but also its power to help trauma survivors potentially avoid or at least mitigate the effects of trauma when treatment and support are given to that survivor in an appropriate and timely June 3, 2025 Page 18 fashion. The feedback we have gotten from the very diverse group of professionals who have attended our training has been overwhelming. They recommended it to their colleagues, and they seek further training. We plan to continue this planning, offered twice per year, and we hope to add a second phase that will be online and specifically build on that trauma and resiliency piece. So we continue to be incredibly proud of the advances taking place within our justice system, and we thank you for your continued support and leadership in this arena. Thank you. MS. DAUPHINAIS: Here to represent our new Priority No. 5, Dale Mullin from Warrior Homes of Collier. MR. MULLIN: Good morning. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning. MR. MULLIN: Believe it or not, about six years ago I stood, I think right here, and reported to this commission that we conducted our first veteran homeless count. One of the commissioners that's on the dais today was out there that day and involved in that count, and we counted 47 homeless veterans living in Collier County. That's the good news. We found them, we located them. The sad news is there were no beds for these veterans. Today, fast forward six years, we have six houses/properties, we have 39 beds, and we have housed a total of 87 veterans year to date. These veterans range from as young as 33 years of age to 91 years of age, and because of that variation in age, the needs are very great. The earlier -- the veterans that tend to be much younger have substance use issues. The veterans that tend to be more June 3, 2025 Page 19 72 and older tend to be senior veterans that are on fixed incomes. But the average veteran on a fixed income, income averages about $1,200 a month. We charge them 30 percent of their gross income, so the balance of that is made up by the charity. I also want to thank you, the Collier County, for providing those two houses and signing off on that, six more beds. I could tell you what's really appreciated; the veterans that live in those two houses today are happy. They think they died and went to heaven living in those beautiful homes. And we're very happy, and we're very thankful for that. Five years ago January, this past January five years ago, we opened our first house, which was alpha house., and alpha house. was really opened because -- with a conversation that I had with Judge Martin about how we could support veterans treatment court and really what the need was. Judge Martin said, "I need beds. These veterans that are coming before my court have more time than money. I need beds. There's many organizations and people that have promised to open beds in this county. It's never happened. We need beds." I went home that night, and that really weighed heavy on my mind because I'm a veteran myself. I called Judge Martin the next day, and I said, "We're going to fix that problem. Our charity's going to fix that problem, and we're going to open up a house in Collier County," and that first house was alpha house. That house was opened by the outpouring of this community. We had some -- we had some fights with the City of Naples to get that open for zoning reasons, but we June 3, 2025 Page 20 won. And we have had 44 veterans go through that house in a matter of five years. They stay an average of seven months, and the success rates are very high. We're very excited about that because I can tell you that the pathway through veterans -- into alpha house. really comes through -- primarily through David Lawrence Center. Veterans that are struggling with substance use issues go through the -- through the detox first, and then many of them go through the 28-day program, and then they come to Alpha House. One of the most extreme cases I laugh about today -- and he's still involved with Warrior Homes -- is he came from veterans treatment court from jail, and all he had was his pajamas on and a dead cell phone. Five years later, that man has his own construction company, working. He's out in an outreach program helping veterans in this community. And I could go on and on and on with stories that have had an impact on this community and changed the veterans lives. Our goal is that no veteran will be left behind in this county, but the pathway through our housing programs really is through David Lawrence Center and through treatment. We have had to move veterans to other counties for treatment because there was not enough beds in DLC, and I really ask you from the bottom of my heart, based upon my own personal experience, that that service -- those beds are really needed in Collier County to provide housing for those veterans to get them stabilized, get them treatment, and then move into Alpha House and get on with their lives. It is my opinion, also in our charity, is that until we ensure that every veteran in this county that wants a bed -- we will never achieve the most veteran-friendly June 3, 2025 Page 21 county in the state. We have to be able to provide clean, safe beds for our veterans. I have a short video of a veteran that I'm going to show you that kind of sums it all up, and he's in the audience here, and he went through this program. He went through veterans treatment court, he went through DLC, and he went through alpha house, and I think it best describes what it's all about. (A video of Greg Tinsley speaking was played as follow:) My father was a Vietnam vet and he -- you know, PTSD, the whole gamut. But for him, there was a stigma behind it. It was, you know, shell shock, and he just -- he couldn't get his life together. Little did I know that I was going to follow directly in his footsteps. I mean, no well-adjusted together kid says, "You know what, I'm going to join right after 911, and I'm going to be a combat soldier," you know. I got to take part in both the initial strike on Afghanistan, then Iraq, and then back to Iraq again, and then back to Afghanistan again. And after 41 months of that, I was broken. I mean, the physical things that were wrong with me healed, but the rest didn't. You know, it's just -- it's progressive in nature. It started off where I just didn't have joy where I had joy, and then it turned into now there is no joy, and then there's no sleep. Then there's the nightmares, you know. And then you start self-medicating yourself. And it starts off as pride. I'm too proud. You know, I'm a man. You know, I'm a staff sergeant in the United States Army. There's no reason why June 3, 2025 Page 22 I -- why I should have to ask for help. And that pride turns into embarrassment. You think of the ones that didn't come home, and you have to -- you have to realize that you're squandering the life that they lost. And so you get this guilt and this shame. And finally you have to try to ask for help. And I mean, that's the big message. If you're not okay, you're not okay, you know, and get help. For me, that journey was hard. I went to five different clinics. I walked in and said, "I am in distress. I need help," and they sent me away. The last one, which is a local one, put me in handcuffs. They took me where crazy people were, and I wasn't crazy. I was hurting. You know, I was just -- my heart wasn't healthy. Nobody -- nobody taught me how to do that. Nobody taught me how to deal with these issues. And I ended up hurting the ones that I love, pushing everybody away, just alone with nobody to turn to, and then I got in trouble. Go figure, right? Hurt people hurt people. And I ended up in veteran treatment court, which I got to say is one of the best things that ever happened to me. I got clean. I got sober. But once I got to Alpha House, I got -- I got a reprieve. Through time and the space and the resources that I gained through Alpha House, I'm whole. You know, I'm healthy, and I'm whole and I'm still working that program. Where I was was not a good place at all. And I'm not alone. There's thousands of guys just like me. They say that the OIF and the OEF, guys June 3, 2025 Page 23 that went to Iraq and Afghanistan, 50 percent of those guys that come back have substance use or, you know, mental health issues. I'm just -- like I said, I'm in a place of gratitude today because I'm healthy and I'm happy. I mean, I can look at you guys and say, "I am happy." You know, like that's what's (audio cut out). Just thank you. (Video concluded.) MR. MULLIN: I'll acknowledge Mr. Tinsley who's here in our audience. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Tinsley, thank you for being here and sharing the video, and thank you for your service. MS. DAUPHINAIS: So in the interest of time, we have submitted a call to action and next steps. I won't take time on that now, since these are available materials for you. They're action steps. We want this new strategic plan to be grounded in action items and strategy. So these have been provided, and we are available. We've worked really hard on making these very measurable and concrete. So as I said, I don't need to spend a lot of time on that in the interest of time, but they are there. They've been submitted. And we are here to answer any questions related to that. Our next steps are to receive your feedback today and incorporate that into the final draft of the strategic plan. We provided an overview of the plan but wanted to make sure that we incorporated feedback from today's workshop before submitting the final 70-page draft plan, which has all the action plans for each of the priorities. June 3, 2025 Page 24 We do have a couple additional individuals that have come as members of the Coalition to provide a brief statement. We have -- I know of at least two, and they've registered through the public comment process to give their statements just to make sure that we adhere to the time guidelines today. So we're happy to proceed however you see fit at this point. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll get to those two speakers. And I'd like to ask Mr. Mullin -- Dale Mullin a quick question. MR. MULLIN: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You had mentioned that six years ago you did the count, and you had -- you found 47 homeless veterans. And I know you've continued to do the counts. And your most recent count, when was that and how many homeless veterans did you count? MR. MULLIN: The most recent count was in January by the Hunger and Homeless Coalition, the point-in-time count. It was 20. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Twenty, okay. Now, do you feel like that's a fairly accurate count? You know, obviously, it's a big county, and I don't know what your procedures are, but did you -- do you come away with that feeling that that's a fairly accurate count, or do you think that's just a small segment? MR. MULLIN: I think it's pretty accurate. Yeah, I think it's pretty accurate. The capacity that we have and the number of veterans and the coalition and the outreach that's going on in this community, we've got a pretty good feel for it, so I think it's a pretty accurate number. I feel pretty good June 3, 2025 Page 25 about it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MULLIN: Michael, do you agree? MR. OVERWAY: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Mullin, I have one -- just want to add to that question. Do you have any grid at all for the homeless population that are not veterans? MR. MULLIN: Michael does. Michael can tell you. MR. OVERWAY: So, Commissioner, yeah. That's -- the annual homeless point-in-time count, the Homeless Coalition administers that annually in January. We had been observing a steady decline in the amount of folks experiencing homelessness. And again, it's a one-day count, so it's meant to be a snapshot, not a full accounting of. Our number this year actually increased, and we believe that some of that is due to, again, high housing cost in Southwest Florida as well as the impacts of the natural disasters that have occurred the last couple years. So our number last year was about 660. This year we're slightly over 800 in our one-day count. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you. MS. DAUPHINAIS: Shall I call our two -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, go ahead and call the other two. MS. DAUPHINAIS: Okay. So I believe we have Ron Stanford, and then Ben Bridges is going to give -- read a letter from one of our members. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Troy, do you have any other registered speakers? June 3, 2025 Page 26 MR. MILLER: No, Mr. Chair. Those are the only two register speakers I have slips for. Do you want them timed, or do you just want them to speak? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, let's just let them go ahead and speak. If it gets to be too long, then we'll let them know. MR. STANFORD: I'll try to keep it brief. My name's Ron Stanford. I'm a peer specialist at the David Lawrence Center. I've been doing this for 15 years now. And I'm speaking in representation for my brethren that have bipolar disorder. It's kind of interesting. Sometimes we have thoughts of -- that moral decisions they're making, that they've made mistakes with their moral decisions, and we find out that they actually -- we actually go into a mode of making poor decisions, a mode. Good morning. I've had lived experience since I was 26 -- I'm 64 now -- with bipolar disorder, and now I know mental health talks generally start with statistics and definitions, but instead, let's just say this: If you've never tried to start a business, call an ex, order 17 snakebite kits, as Kay Redfield Jamison did once, and solve world hunger all in one evening, you probably haven't had a manic episode. This morning I want to talk about something that's well documented virtually -- in virtually every psychology textbook but still surprisingly misunderstood in real life, and that's the poor decision-making mode one goes into during bipolar -- a bipolar episode. When we go into mania, everything speeds up: thoughts, plans, spending, speech, motion, and confidence. You can feel powerful, inspired, June 3, 2025 Page 27 even challenging, and that's exactly the problem. There was once a bipolar patient who booked three international flights one night, none of which he remembered the next morning. Another decided that she was destined to be a great global speaker and ordered 5,000 business cards all before writing a single speech. What's happening here isn't just excitement. It's a collapse of our ability to assess risk and consequences. We make bold sometimes disastrous decisions with total confidence that we're doing the right thing. We might empty a bank account, send irreversible texts, quit a job, or start five new projects by lunchtime, and in that moment it doesn't feel dangerous. It actually feels overdue. Then finally the episode ends, and we come back to ourselves, to the credit card bills, the voicemail regrets, the fractured relationships. We ask ourselves, "What was I thinking?" And the answer is, we weren't, at least not clearly. What's worse, people around us often treat those decisions as moral failures rather than medical symptoms. This is why early support and informed compassion are so essential for the Coalition and this workshop. When we understand that mania affects decision-making just as it does mood, we stop asking "Why did they do that?" and we start asking, "How can we help before it goes that far again?" In closing, we are not -- we are not our worst episodes. We are people working hard to live meaningful lives while managing something that can at times get far away from us. When you understand that even a little, it creates space for safety, for dignity, and for healing. And so I want to thank you this morning for your June 3, 2025 Page 28 attention and your willingness to listen not just to the facts but to someone with lived experiences. Conversations like this remind us that recovery is not about treatment -- isn't just about treatment. It's about community, compassion, and the willingness to see each other as whole human beings. Thanks for being part of that this morning as we go forward. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. BRIDGES: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Ben Bridges, vice president of programs at St. Matthew's House. It's a privilege to be here this morning. I have a letter to read from one of our members of the Coalition, but since I don't get a time limit, I'm going to take a minute just to offer a comment on behalf of St. Matthew's House, you know, just around the corner. Right now there's 150 people, men, women, and children, that are under our care that are beneficiaries of the collective good that this coalition carries out every single day, not only those 150, but over 400 people on any given night under our care that are beneficiaries of the collective good that's lived out through this coalition here. And so we appreciate the support that you lend to us. You know, 30 percent of our population on any given night falls under the older adult category, so it's a clear reminder of the need for these services. Just in this last week, we've had the opportunity to make five unique calls to the Mobile Response Crisis Unit from David Lawrence Center at our shelter to effectively and efficiently meet the needs of the people under our care. That would not have happened had it not been for the work of this coalition over the last several years. And many of you are aware of the unfortunate incident June 3, 2025 Page 29 we had at our thrift store just about a month ago, and it was a stark reminder of the desperate need of these kinds of services here in our community. You know, in a place that is consistently, and rightly so, ranked as one of the most beautiful places to live in the country, as we see more and more people become aware of that and join our ranks, I can think of nothing more important than ensuring as a community that we have a robust supported well-resourced social infrastructure to ensure that Naples is a beautiful place to live, not just because of the nature and the physical beauty, but because of the way that we care for those at their point of deepest need. It should be a beautiful place for everyone. So thanks for your support over these years and your continued support. I have a letter here to read from Mr. Reid Saunders, a member of our Coalition for Healthy Minds. It says this: Dear members of the Board of Collier County commissioners, I'm writing to express my strong support for the expansion of mental health services in Collier County and to commend the vital work the Collier Coalition for Healthy Minds is doing to promote mental well-being within our community. Mental health is a cornerstone of overall health and well-being affecting individuals across all ages, backgrounds, and circumstances. In Collier County, we have seen firsthand the profound impact that accessible and comprehensive mental health services can have, reducing stigma, fostering resilience, and ensuring that those in need receive the support they deserve. Expanding mental health services is essential to address June 3, 2025 Page 30 the growing demand and to bridge gaps in care. Increased funding, expanded access points, and community outreach initiatives can help ensure that mental health support is available, affordable, and culturally sensitive. Such efforts are crucial for preventing crises, supporting recovery, and promoting a healthier, more connected community. I applaud the Collier County Commissioners and the Collier Coalition for Healthy Minds for their leadership, advocacy, and collaboration with local agencies, healthcare providers, and residents to improve mental health outcomes. Your commitment to creating a community where mental health is prioritized and de-stigmatized is inspiring and vital. Together we can work towards a future where every individual in Collier County has access to the mental health resources they need to thrive. I encourage continued support for your initiatives and look forward to seeing the positive impact of expanded mental health services across our community. Thank you for your dedication, leadership, and hard work. Sincerely, Reid Saunders. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MS. DAUPHINAIS: Open it up for discussion and questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Are there any questions or comments from the Commission on this introductory part of the -- we're going to get into the central receiving facility in just a moment. Any questions in advance of that? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then I want to thank you June 3, 2025 Page 31 for the presentation and all the members of the Coalition for everything that you do, and we'll go to Item 2B on our agenda, which is the central receiving facility. Item #2B CENTRAL RECEIVING FACILITY - PRESENTED BY MR. SCOTT BURGESS, CEO, DAVID LAWRENCE CENTER, MENTAL HEALTH STRATEGIC PLAN PRIORITY 1; DISCUSSED WITH DIRECTION GIVEN FOR PRESENTATION AT THE BCC MEETING ON 06/10/25 MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we placed this item on the agenda so that we could have further conversation after last Tuesday's conversation in advance of coming into next week's board meeting. If you-all have additional questions, also opening it up for David Lawrence Center if there's anything -- any clarifications or information that they would like to be able to discuss here. Again, this can save time and also inform our conversation next Tuesday when we talk about the operating agreement. And with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Burgess. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning. MR. BURGESS: Good morning. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be before you. Thank you for your support. As somebody that was very intimately involved in the original strategic plan and involved with this update, I want to say how much we appreciate your support, your interest in helping us advance these critically important services for our community. As you know, and we've discussed before, that in a growing community we're going to have these growing June 3, 2025 Page 32 needs when one in four are going to be challenged with a substance use challenge, one in seven are going to struggle with a substance use disorder. So growing population, growing prevalence creates a situation where, working together, we're going to be able to leverage each other's strengths. And I really want to commend and thank my colleagues that are here this morning and that have been pouring into this plan, planning, and execution. I think Commissioner Solis, when he was involved, had said that he'd not seen a strategic plan gather the momentum and execution to the level that the mental health and substance use strategic plan had in his -- in his time. So I really credit the hard work of all these individuals that are trying to care and support those in our community, our mothers, brothers, sisters, children each and every day. So I want to thank you for the opportunity to present that. We really look forward to any additional comments that you might have before we present the final strategic plan for your consideration and hopefully positive approval. As it relates to the first priority that was prioritized by the group last time that we put the strategic plan together, the central receiving facility has remained the No. 1 priority of this strategic plan and of this group. And I know that when we presented before, there was -- there were a couple of questions that I wanted to make sure to kind of clear up. One of those questions was about the total number of beds for the facility. We are -- we're going to have 87 new beds in the central receiving facility. So 87 new beds. We will have 33 crisis beds that will remain at the DLC current campus, so that hopefully answers that question. June 3, 2025 Page 33 There was another question that came up regarding new staff that are going to be necessary in order for us to be able to provide the support in the central receiving facility. That will be 92 new direct staff that will be needed in that regard. Those were the two questions that I know that were -- there was interest in bringing that to this group here today, so I wanted to share those with you and take any additional questions or comments that you have and be able to respond to those today, if you would like some of those, or on the 6th [sic]. I know we have the next meeting on the 6th. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, there were a lot of questions last Tuesday, and we felt that having this as part of the discussion today might facilitate getting through the process next Tuesday, because that's kind of a deadline for us. So let's see if there are any questions or if there's any need for any further clarification in reference to this. The two issues that we addressed last time, the bed-count issue, and then the requirements for ongoing funding from the county were the two elephants in the room, if you will, and so any communication or questions here? Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. My question can be for both, but it's predominantly for the County Manager. Has the operating agreement that was submitted to us last week been adjusted? MS. PATTERSON: We met last week to discuss the topics and the issues that the -- where the Board had concerns with. We have not made -- I'm looking at Sally. We have not made any adjustments to the operating agreement as of now. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. June 3, 2025 Page 34 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Burgess, just to clarify, I know we had a number of 72 at one point in your presentation last week, and you said that was going to be a number -- a future number, I guess, in the existing facility; you would eventually end up with 72 beds. And I know the big question a lot of us were just trying to wrap our head around the 33 beds, because a lot of people were saying they're moving. But from what I understand is they're moving -- the adult care of the portion is moving to the new facility, as in 33 beds which, physically, aren't moving the beds, but they will be occupying -- whoever would have initially came in the facility that exists now would end up to the central receiving. But the 33 beds remain in the old, which are now going to double the size of the juvenile intake? MR. BURGESS: Correct. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So in reality, I mean -- and then the future beds were going to be multi, like, not just designated for -- because I remember reading something in there that it wasn't just designated the juvenile, the additional, to make up the 72. MR. BURGESS: Correct. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And then you had an overall number with all that. MR. BURGESS: Right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So in reality -- you know, I understand the fact that we're moving service over to adult, but the beds still exist in the other facility. MR. BURGESS: That's absolutely correct. You summarized that perfectly. So we will -- we will have the June 3, 2025 Page 35 adult services in the central receiving facility. We're not eliminating any beds on our current campus. We'll be able to -- we'll have the 33 crisis stabilization beds on our current campus, but they'll be dedicated to children. That's going to increase the children capacity. And then we will still have adult substance use disorder beds, treatment beds that are going to be -- remain available on our current campus, so those aren't going away either, and that's going to help support individuals that might be coming out of the central receiving facility. Maybe they went in under the Marchman Act, and they're in under the Marchman Act for 24, 48, 72 hours. They need a place to go afterwards to continue on with their treatment and their support. They'd be able to use those beds that are remaining on the main campus in order to provide that support. So you're absolutely right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And the number's 72. So at some point there's going to be an increased number of beds in the old facility? MR. BURGESS: There'll be -- there'll be -- yes, there'll be a slight increase on the current campus as well, so we're actually going to have an increase on both sides. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman. I'll start off a little lighthearted, and then I'm going to get super frank. First of all, the best line of the -- well, I'll make one correction. You said our meeting on the 6th, and just for the record, it's on the 10th. MR. BURGESS: Oh, I'm sorry. June 3, 2025 Page 36 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's next Tuesday. MR. BURGESS: Yeah, 6/10, I apologize. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So just semantics. Best line of this meeting so far was, "I might not have the keys to the city, but I do have a key to my own apartment." Okay. That's a great line. That's a great line. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So -- but here's my frank conversation here. This is -- first of all, I've been very, very clear, I'm huge supporter of the central receiving facility. It should go on the David Lawrence Center footprint, and it should have been approved years ago. That's just my own personal feeling. Are there loose ends? Are there questions? No project is perfect. But I think -- and I said this at the last commissioner meeting, a B-plus decision now is better than an A-plus decision that never comes. This meeting is great. We're all singing kumbaya. Everybody is positive about the need for mental health support. Okay. The proof's going to be in the pudding in seven days when we come in this room, and I think it's long overdue that we need to make a decision. And if the decision isn't on the David Lawrence Center -- this is a -- this is a majority. I respect whatever anybody else says up here. But one of the things I had to correct for a senior leader in the county is it's not the central receiving facility on the David Lawrence Center property or nothing. It's going to get built somewhere. Taxpayers supported this. We have the funds for it. It's not getting any cheaper. It's not getting any bigger. It's shrinking in size and becoming more June 3, 2025 Page 37 expensive, as any project moves forward. And I know you and I are going to talk after this, and I'm going to -- I'm going to just take a couple of things off of my notes, and then I'll give you a deeper dive of just my own personal perspective about in seven days what I think needs to happen in this room. First off, I think clarity has to be much better than the last meeting. It's great that you just clarified for Commissioner Kowal the amount of beds. There were five different speakers here at our last commissioner meeting that all said something different, you know, that said we're transferring beds, you know, the delta's going to be 30 instead of, you know, 87, or whatever. You've got to get your team together, because you need to be speaking with one decisive voice at that podium. You know, we're here making a decision using taxpayer dollars -- not county money, it's money that belongs to the taxpayers -- and we have to feel good about making it. And if you're -- you have to make the case that the David Lawrence Center location is the best and you have the best plan and all that, and if you can't, we're going to move forward with Plan B, Plan C, Plan D, but we need to do something. And I certainly hope that we don't disappoint the community in seven days by kicking the can or asking to come back with something else. I mean, I think we are very close. You personally have to either -- get us over the hump. I know that the County Manager also has a responsibility there but, you know, I'm hopeful that in seven days we will make a command decision in here, because obviously this workshop, nobody disagrees with anything June 3, 2025 Page 38 that is said here. But in the end, you've got to have the beds. So we could all say we want to help and, Dale, you're doing a great job, and thanks to the NAMI guys and for the people that are doing the homeless count. I've been part of that. But in the end, if alls we have is money in the bank and we haven't put shovels in the ground, then we've done nothing. And, you know, next Tuesday's the day to do it. So I'm going to give you some of my suggestions about what I would -- what I would need to hear and what I think would help my colleagues, but the meeting at our last commissioner meeting, to me, I was even sort of not -- never on the fence but started to be concerned that there wasn't a cohesive message. So, you know, not to get too much into the central receiving facility, but this was sort of an extra meeting to sort of talk a little bit about some details that could help to make the best decision, but I think it needs much more clarity and maybe needs -- you know, I wrote down here, for lack of a better term, it needs to be dumbed down a little bit. It was all over the map. I'm just being honest. MR. BURGESS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: For me, and I think for my colleagues, or else they would have said, full speed ahead, I 100 percent support it. But our job's also to make sure that we spend the taxpayer money wisely. And, you know, if it's not on your facility, then it might be somewhere else. So I'm looking for real, you know, extreme clarity, a cohesive voice in seven days. The questions -- you know what the questions are that are out there. This isn't that complicated. We're not June 3, 2025 Page 39 building the International Space Station here. You know, this is the operating agreement. What's the loose ends? Somebody figure out the math equation on the beds because I think we've all heard, like, eight different options. And you may not think that, but I can tell you on this side multiple people had all different numbers. And so then, regardless of if they're just misspeaking or some are confused, or they haven't the latest update or whatever, then that puts question in our mind that maybe this isn't a tight operation, and just to move forward and go, "We'll all figure it out in the end" isn't, you know, our focus. You know, on the flip side nothing's, like I said, ever going to be 100 percent perfect. You know, your job is to get us as close to perfect as possible. I'll end it by saying what is imperfect right now in our community is the number of beds of people who need mental health support, and I think that really needs to be our focus. And so this central receiving facility needs to go somewhere. It seemed like we were gravitating towards the David Lawrence Center location. If we're not, then I look forward to hearing what the next best option is. But the imperfect thing is what we're hearing today, that the need greatly outpaces what we have in existence, and I think, you know, that needs to be our number-one focus, and we need to help solve that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, can you put that -- turn the visualizer on? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Scott, I asked the County Attorney to draft up a potential -- you know, move it up just a little bit so you -- thank you. I had the County Attorney June 3, 2025 Page 40 draft up some language that I'm certain is not perfect, but I thought this would clarify the bed-count issue. Take a look at that. It's just the -- it's just the underlying portion. If the Commissioners could take a look at that as well. Something to that effect takes the bed-count issue off the table completely. There is no confusion. You have a contractual obligation to have 87 new beds along with the beds that you currently have; there would be no confusion about that. And this may not be worded the way that would be the most clear, but I'm thinking in terms of just some contractual language that basically says you've got 33 beds now. You're going to continue to operate those 33 beds, you'll have 87 at the opening of the facility, and you're going to continue to operate those 87 plus the 33. MR. BURGESS: Yeah. I'm seeing this language for the very first time. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. I apologize for that. MR. BURGESS: No -- and that's okay. And I'm happy -- as I look at this right now, it doesn't give me heartburn because it's -- we do have 33 beds. We're going to continue with 33 beds. But clearly, that would be something that I'd have to take back and take a look at with my board. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, have Mr. Yovanovich take a look at it. Then he'll give you heartburn, perhaps, over this. But something like this, I think, would just take that issue off the table so there's no need to have six people talk about the different types of beds. Commissioner McDaniel, you were next. June 3, 2025 Page 41 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for the stab at the quantification of the beds. I have to say I was very clear on the bed count. I was very clear. I wasn't -- I wasn't misled. I mean, I knew -- we knew walking in here what those, in fact, were. As Commissioner LoCastro said, there was a lot of different people with different opinions, but bottom line, I was very clear on the bed -- on the bed count. I'm very clear on the need. I've talked about this need since I became a county commissioner eight years ago. There's no argument that there's a need. There's no argument that a central receiving facility is, in fact, an answer to addressing the need. We've talked about -- we talked about it way back when, when you first came before us asking for more money to support our Sheriff's Department with regard to the Baker Act and the Marchman Act. We talked about it again the following year when we allotted more money to help DLC's efforts and what they're doing. And for me it was easy. And I don't want to -- I don't want to rationalize a human element with money. But at the end of the day, it was -- it was -- it was costing us more to incarcerate these people. And we all know there's little to no rehabilitation that comes with incarceration. It was costing us more money to incarcerate these people than it was to offer some kind of support, some kind of mechanism of support. Having said all that, I cannot believe that I'm sitting here today with these discussions that we've been having for all these years, and that operating agreement that was put June 3, 2025 Page 42 before us last week is not fixed. Terribly disappointed. I can't -- I can't even fathom someone asking me, who represents the taxpayers of Collier County, to enter into an agreement like that. And it hasn't been fixed. MR. BURGESS: Can you clarify "fixed" for me? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I can when you and I meet later. I believe you and I have a meeting later on today. I will clarify it then. It's not a discussion for us to be having in public. To quantify the largest disappointment that I have, the operating agreement -- in writing in the operating agreement that we now that have that we didn't have in December typifies the PowerPoint presentation that you put in front of this board in December, and the fourth page of that PowerPoint presentation said, "We're going to operate this new facility to the best of our abilities if we have enough money, and if we don't, we're going to cut services." And the operating agreement that was put in front of me last week said the same thing in writing. Do I need to be any more clear than that? MR. BURGESS: No. I'm happy to have the discussion with you, because there's a lot of additional clarifiers in there. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, having said all that, Mr. Burgess, I can't express how disappointed I am that I'm having to have this conversation right now. That's all I have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman. Just -- I'm going to steal a couple of things off of my June 3, 2025 Page 43 notes, and then I'm going to save the rest for when we talk. I really think the bulk of the confusion at the last meeting was you had multiple speakers, including yourself, that when you -- you know, we always say up here words matter -- Commissioner Saunders is the key [sic] of saying that -- and it does. When people say we're transferring beds, that right there is something that was a red flag. If you're transferring the mission of a bed and then you're recreating a different mission in the bed, you guys didn't say that, okay. And I don't know how many times we tried to pull that out of you, and at the end we sort of got to it. But like, as Commissioner McDaniel is referring to, or maybe I'm inferring something here, when I start to hear sloppy conversation, I'm not willing to write a $50 million check for anything for the taxpayers to buy. I need to hear that, you know, we've got -- we've got a solid team in lockstep. And I think the word "transfer" confused a lot of people, and then I wrote in my notes here, we weren't building this central receiving facility -- we the taxpayer -- so that David Lawrence Center can somehow reorganize and be more, you know, cohesive and more efficient and all that. We want all of that, and maybe all that comes later, but the inference was, "Wow, once you build this on our side of the street, we're now going to do a whole bunch of different things to take advantage of the facility you're building for us." I'm not saying that's true. It sounded that way to me, okay. It sounded -- and I'm a supporter of this. And so I was like, "Man, why am I hearing this?" June 3, 2025 Page 44 So that's a little more feedback for you, that clarity and exactly what you're doing, but you can't take back some of the words that you and some of your other supporters said at the podium at the last meeting. And I'm kind of in line with Commissioner McDaniel that I'm sitting here saying, "God, I just can't believe that we're screwing around with this thing still in small little sentences here and there." And I did expect to come to this meeting hearing that the operation agreement was agreed to or was overhauled or for you to say, "I can't take it any further, so we're not close enough. You should go to Plan B. David Lawrence Center isn't your partner because I can't meet the needs of what you're -- what the county expects or needs or demands." I think a lot of it is just miscommunication in some respects, but then in some other areas, I actually think we're not as close as I had hoped we would be after all this time. But there definitely were some words -- confusing words used at our last commissioner meeting that I don't think helped the cause. MR. BURGESS: Can I just make one quick comment? COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure. MR. BURGESS: And I take the point that you're talking about with the language and the clarity and, certainly, we're trying to make sure that that's completely dialed in, and we've got a slide already prepared that's been -- on the beds and all of that that's been approved by everybody, including county staff. We've already had those meetings. We'll make sure that seven days from now that's as clear as can be. My understanding, outside of this brand-new language that was just presented today, is the operating agreement June 3, 2025 Page 45 was agreed to. We are agreeing to that. The county is agreeing to that, the county staff. So I've not come to -- I didn't come last week and I didn't come today thinking that we have any issues related to the operating agreement other than what now has been presented, of which I will take back. So if there's -- if there's additional items that people are feeling need to get into the operating agreement, they have not been discussed in depth and detail. So I would -- I would like to get that information. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That's a huge disconnect, because we've all met with the County Manager, and we met with our Clerk of Courts, who represent a whole group of people, and at least the message in my office, and I'm sure in the offices of the other commissioners, was that there was disagreement. I mean, our Clerk of Courts gave all of us deep detail. Maybe some of it I agreed with or didn't -- or disagreed with. That's immaterial. The rationale -- or the reality is, she's a main -- and her office is a main portion of the decision-making process. So we may not -- I may not have an issue, but if she does and she's articulating it, or our County Manager does, then we do have a problem, because we all want to paddle in the same direction. And we -- I value what they feel. I value it deeply. So I think you're incorrect there that -- thinking that everything's already been agreed to, and, you know, you don't -- you don't know why we're not putting shovels in the ground. There's definitely, in my opinion, disagreement among our county staff and our senior officials who have June 3, 2025 Page 46 been, you know, in the discussions from day one, and then that feedback's coming to us, and that's where we're hesitant to just, you know, put a rubber stamp approval on this. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: My understanding is that staff had agreed with the David Lawrence Center on the terms of the operating agreement. The purpose of this meeting is to flesh out those types of issues, because the last thing we want to be doing next Tuesday when we're really under the gun -- that's kind of a drop-dead day. The purpose of having this on the agenda today is to go through those details so that we can move through this smoothly next week and not get bogged down. Commissioner McDaniel, you've said you've got issues with the contract. This is the time to bring some of those forward so we can discuss them. You're going to have a conversation with Scott Burgess in the next couple of days. We're not going to know anything about that until next Tuesday. I just don't think that's a very efficient way to move forward. If you've got some issues, let's bring them out. Let's talk about them. I've gone through this agreement with our staff. I've spoken with Ms. Patterson and with the County Attorney, Ms. Ashkar, and my understanding is all the terms of that agreement had been agreed to by all the parties. I understand the Clerk has some issues. I don't know if they are specific legal issues that have not been addressed. I know she's got some funding issues, and legitimately so. But in terms of the actual operating agreement, my understanding is that's been pretty much agreed to. I've added one thing to clarify an issue. If there's some other issues that need to be clarified, let's at least put them on the June 3, 2025 Page 47 table so that all five of us have the ability to think about them. Commissioner McDaniel, if you've got some issues, let's bring them forward. This, I think, is really the best time to do that. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. Hi, Scott. MR. BURGESS: Hey. Good morning, sir. COMMISSIONER HALL: So I'm still not clear. We are going to build 87 beds in the new central facility if we approve this. MR. BURGESS: Correct. COMMISSIONER HALL: So we have a new facility for 56 million that we're going to build. You have a facility that's already paid for, and you're operating 33 beds. Okay. If we will build 87 new beds with $56 million of taxpayers' money and you take some of the services that you're providing that's already paid for and put them over in the new facility, to me that's a reduction of additional new available beds. And so I just want to make sure -- and so Commissioner LoCastro said it, when we talked about transferring adult beds to the new facility, to me that's not an increase of 87 beds. That's just a use of the new facility for your adult services so you can make room that's already paid for for your children's services. And I just want to be clear. In my mind, I love the fact that you were not going to transfer any services; that we're going to build 87 new beds and put 87 new potential patients in those beds. That made me feel great until I started June 3, 2025 Page 48 listening, and I still thought maybe there was some transfer of adult beds over here to the -- this is paid for. This is new money that -- and this is all I'm concerned about is the 56 million. So help me there. MR. BURGESS: Okay. The -- I think the best way I can say it is it's 87 -- there's going to be 87 new beds. We've got 33 right now. We're going to build 87 in this new facility. COMMISSIONER HALL: We are going to build 87 beds. That's not -- MR. BURGESS: That's a plus 87. COMMISSIONER HALL: So when we get the beds built -- MR. BURGESS: Yes. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- is there any adult services that you have already operating going to move over to -- MR. BURGESS: We will consolidate adult services into an adult building. COMMISSIONER HALL: That's what I'm saying. The net increase is not 87 beds, because you're already operating some of those adult. So I get the strategy, but Commissioner LoCastro said it, we can't mix and mingle and enhance David Lawrence Center's operations on new taxpayer money, and that was what I was trying to get to. As far as the operating agreement, there is one part -- you know, we did a -- staff did a great job trying to take the risk off of the people and letting -- and making you, as the operator, assume those risks. But it came to my attention that one comment made by the chairman of your June 3, 2025 Page 49 organization, when asked if things don't go right -- you know, if your operating is not covered and there's a gap to be filled, what are the options? And if -- you said -- he said, "Well, we can lower services." We can ask the people to -- we can ask the county commissioners to fill the gap, or we can -- we can purchase -- purchase the building outright. And so when asked, Mr. Morton if -- you know, if none of these things were a possibility, then he just said, "Well, then we'll just leave," and that's not the right answer for me. I looked at the operating agreement, and I didn't have a real issue with that. I love the fact that, you know, kind of the burden's on you, and you've got teeth in the deal. But then when I looked at the financial statement, we're losing -- we're planning on losing 900-something-thousand dollars per year. And to me, that is a planned -- that's a plan to fail, and I don't want to enter into an agreement that's planning to fail. I understand that there are some revenue options from naming rights; that's great. But is that going to be 900 -- is the naming rights going to provide 900-something-thousand dollars per year going forward, or are those just one-time revenues? Just a question I've got. I don't want -- I don't feel good about entering an agreement that's planning to fail or that says, "Hey, if we don't make it, then we're just going to lower our services," because we don't have the choice of lowering our 56 million. If we build this facility and you lower the services, we're still -- the taxpayers are still on the hook for a $56 million facility. Those are my issues, and they're real, and they're common sense, and they're not -- you know, I just don't want June 3, 2025 Page 50 to just -- Mr. Evans' testimony, the other guy, I mean, that moves my heart like you can't imagine. It's not about that I don't want to do something good for the public or good for the mental health or to help people. We want to get there, but we want to get there where we don't fail in the future or where we don't have to say "Hey, we just screwed up. We didn't plan great. We kind of put the cart before the horse because we were excited about the services that we're going to provide for the public." I want the horse before the cart, and I want this thing to work year after year after year. So that's my -- I want to see that the plan -- the financial plan to operate either trimmed down and let's see what's real going forward for the first month or the first year. I don't want to spend -- you know, our -- the scab that we have on the sports complex is a pretty raw scab. We've spent a lot of money -- a lot more money than what we ever planned on doing, and we have a -- we have a world-class facility, but we should have -- we could have planned that first to get that world-class facility instead of, well, this is necessary now; we're under the hook. This is necessary now; we're on the hook. We don't want to be the big disappointment for mental health services in Collier County, and if you have to come back to us because we didn't plan to win in the beginning, and if you have to come back to us, I can't say that I'm going to be a supporter of baling it out. I want to be -- I want to win going in. If we plan to win, then we win. If we plan to fail, then we fail. We just -- can't just chance it. We can't just throw it on the wall and see what sticks. So I mean, I hope you hear my heart about that, and that's -- I think -- I think Commissioner Saunders is correct June 3, 2025 Page 51 where this is the -- this is where we just kind of need to hash that stuff out so we don't get in the public meeting in two [sic] weeks and still don't have these things worked out and ironed out and buttoned up. So thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. That's -- I'm kind of under the same agreement as Commissioner Saunders, because I wouldn't think staff would have brought the agenda item last Tuesday of the contract itself if they didn't feel we met somewhere and just have us vote on it, because the intent was last Tuesday. We brought a bunch of questions up about what we saw, and that's why we are here today. It's not that the staff and David Lawrence had come to some sort of agreement, or we never would have saw it as an agenda item. It would never have made it to the agenda. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Correct. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They wouldn't have put it before us to vote on it last Tuesday; that's my position. That's what I felt through my meetings, that that's why we ended up where we were Tuesday. The problem was when we sat up here, the way we are, and we like to look at things at a deeper dive, we had a lot of questions about it, and that's where we ended up today. We could have took a vote on Tuesday on it up or down, and we chose to move it to get more educated and understand some more of these questions. And this is more along the line -- I'm going to -- I'm just going to try -- this bed number thing, we just keep going -- revisiting and revisiting these physical beds. And I'm just going to try to -- my own opinion and how I see it, I June 3, 2025 Page 52 don't -- I'm not counting beds. I'm counting service. And the reality is that 87 beds is the number that I guess we got to at some point for this new facility. And the fact is, you can't -- and it could be statutorily -- I could be wrong. But you can't treat juveniles and adults in the same area or within the same treatment area. And I think once the licensing of this building comes online, the adult service is going to have to be centrally located in the central receiving area because of statutory or permitting or licensing purposes. So in reality -- I look at it this way: We are actually gaining beds because our juveniles still need the treatment in Collier County. They deserve the services just like anybody else. By having the facility built itself, our adult services that are on an emergency type basis, your Baker Acts, your Marchman Acts that come in unannounced, brought in by law enforcement, first responders, fire, and even family members at times can go to the central receiving center and get the initial help as adults. But if they have juveniles, then they'll go to the existing facility, which now has a greater capacity to handle these issues, and we don't have to send them to Lee County or Hendry County like we had in the past because we don't have enough beds for juveniles in crisis. To me, if you put it in that kind of mindset, by one being built, you ultimately increase beds for service in Collier County. It's just a net number of service, not so much actually counting beds. And to my -- that's how I'm starting to understand it when I take a more personal deep dive into it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty much on the basis because of the -- you're statutorily driven, June 3, 2025 Page 53 the certificates of operation are driven, and now we've created 87 beds to service these people in crisis as adults, and we're creating more beds in crisis as juveniles, to service all of Collier County citizens. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's why I asked the County Attorney to draft this language to put in the contract so that they are contractually obligated to operate 33 beds that they're operating now -- they'll be children's beds -- and to operate 87 beds at the new facility, and those will be for the adults. And so I think this clarifies that. Now, Commissioner Hall, there is a transfer of some of the use of those 33 beds. The adult use of those 33 beds will be transferred, but the number of beds will he remain the same, and so our kids will have a better opportunity to get services here instead of being transferred up to Lee County or wherever they have to go. So to me it's just -- this, I think, clarifies that. We may need to massage this language a little bit, but I think it -- I think it's there in terms of the bed count. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want to remind everybody that when we were asked to enter into the lease for the operations of this facility, there wasn't even an operating agreement in place. I brought the minutes from when we approved this location for the lease. There wasn't an operating agreement in place. There is -- there is one now, but there wasn't one before. And if I hadn't of brought that up, we would have entered into the lease, and there wouldn't be a discussion about this. One of my -- one of my issues with the existing operating agreement is and has been the cost centers. Again, June 3, 2025 Page 54 I'm -- I'm quite content, quite happy, quite pleased, quite grateful of what David Lawrence Center has done for our community over the years. I'm discontent with the separation of cost centers. I heard 87 new beds over here, 67 new beds in your -- in your existing facility, but the segregation of cost centers isn't part of at operating agreement. The operating agreement that I had, that I read, that I reviewed talked only about the operational aspects of the new facility. I have an audit issue. I'm looking -- I'm looking at this operational agreement. I don't have the professional knowledge to discern the requisites of care for different people that show up with different issues along those lines. I have to believe that that was vetted out with people that do have knowledge. I'm not -- I'm not qualified to do that. What I am qualified to do, what I have been -- what I have been asked to do is to be a steward of the taxpayers' money. I go all the way back to when you were the chair of the stakeholder committee. This particular location was No. 4 on the locations that were selected by an independent consultant that we hired and gave us advice as to where to go with this. And so leading all the way up to where we are today, here we are at the seventh [sic] hour, we still haven't adjusted the operating agreement. There were known deficiencies in that operating agreement. Commissioner Hall typified it when he spoke, and that was when he asked the chairman of your board to present this operating agreement to one of his many billion-dollar-plus hedge funds and ask them to accept it. June 3, 2025 Page 55 They wouldn't because it's an open-ended door. It's an open-ended circumstance. I've shared with you my particular points with regard to the deficiencies in that agreement. I need to see specific delineation in cost centers and how it's going to be managed, and the language with regard to the level-of-service reduction has to go away. I still can't say, in all sincerity that -- I still can't say that I'm going to support this. I haven't been in support of this since it was moved from the on-site locations that were advised to us in the first place. MR. BURGESS: For point of clarification, I think it's really important -- because you've mentioned it a couple of times now -- the original prioritization that was done on locations, you would concede, did not take into consideration the actual services that were going to be provided, what's a therapeutic environment for those to be provided, if the state was going to provide any grant dollars if it was located on the county complex next to the jail. None of those factors were brought into that initial ranking of those locations, correct? And then after those were taken into consideration, that's where the recommendation was made to have it moved. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I don't -- I don't mean any disrespect, but I didn't see any data that showed that we were going to be denied any kind of grant monies and any state facilitation or any support from the agencies, if you will, with regard to the financial construct of this location. I heard people say that the on-site facility was going to be a detraction for people that seek assistance on June 3, 2025 Page 56 their own because of the proximity to the jail. I didn't concur with that thought process, so -- MR. BURGESS: I agree with the second part of your phrase. I believe if we look back at the transcripts, you'll see that there was somebody that represented the state that made that claim about a reduction in grant dollars that would not be made available. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Regardless of that, you know, a decision was made for a particular location. I don't remember all the details, Commissioner McDaniel, but one of the concerns, quite frankly, was the future of Collier County Government, the buildings and things that we need. There were a lot of factors that went into that ultimate decision. And I think there was a lot of -- quite frankly, I think there was a lot of discussion in terms of the validity of the recommendations they were even making. But regardless of that, the decision's been made that it's going to be at this location or not. But we're not looking at locations right now. We're looking at whether we're going to approve this project. And so, you know, rehashing that, I think, is instructive, perhaps, but I think that's not kind of where we are right now. We're going to need to take a break here for the reporter. But let's finish up with your comments, and then we'll take a break. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And then I want to add some short -- and then we'll break. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I agree with the Chairman that this is the meeting to be clear and transparent June 3, 2025 Page 57 and get things out so that when you come back here in seven days we have the best chance to make a decision. If the statement is being made that the county and David Lawrence Center actually is in full agreement with the operating agreement, I think you're hearing that that might not be true. And the one other thing I'll add -- because, you know, we've talked about the beds and a few other things -- the naming rights is a multimillion dollar, you know, possibility. MR. BURGESS: Correct. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And from the meetings I've gotten in my office with county staff, Clerk of Courts, and, you know, just the other deep dives that I've done, that seems to still be a disconnect. And so it may not be a showstopper. And if it's not a disconnect, then that's when I say, in seven days somebody come to this podium and, with clarity, explain exactly what's going to happen and what everybody's agreed to. And I have yet to hear that. And it still hasn't necessarily gotten me off of support of DLC, but I mean, I'm only one vote up here. And so naming rights and who's going to get the millions of dollars, who's going to control it, to me that is also part of the operations of the central receiving facility, and I don't think that part is tight either. So that's more of just advice. And I agree with the Chairman, this is -- this is a workshop to talk about the things that are sort of still thin, still a little bit cloudy, and I think that's one of them. I know it is. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's take a recess until 10:45. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Then you'll come see June 3, 2025 Page 58 me. (A brief recess was had from 10:34 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.) MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'll please take your seats, we'll reconvene. I believe we were still going through some commissioner comments. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just -- I want to reiterate the fact, you know, we all -- you and I, especially, because we've got the most longevity up here, have been on the short end of votes when it comes along. I wasn't -- I wasn't in support of the original vote that came forward when this location was selected. There may have been extenuating circumstances, but I -- I'm not bringing up sour grapes because I didn't prevail on the vote. I do believe that the location of the facility is, in fact, relevant. I do recall that the needs assessment that was originally done asked for 120 beds, and I've subsequently watched that need not go down but go up, and the expenses associated with the cost of this facility has reduced the number of new beds. So having said that, I have listened to several of my colleagues up here this morning allude to the fact that our staff was okay, that our clerk was okay, and I'd like to -- with this operating agreement, and I'd like to ask our County Manager and our Clerk, if possible, to express some of their thoughts with regard to what's transpired and what has brought us to this date today. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We'll have -- Mr. Kinzel, if you could come on up. A couple June 3, 2025 Page 59 things originally when we were looking at this site, my preference, quite frankly, was the site here on campus. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mine, too. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I became convinced, based on all the evidence, that that was not going to be the right location. But again, we're not litigating that issue. And then the other thing is just so -- I don't think anyone up here said the Clerk was okay with any of this. I said I think the Clerk's got some issues. I'm not sure if those are legal issues or not, which is different than some of the financial issues that we may have. So I didn't want to make it sound like I was saying that the Clerk is okay with this, because I know you've got some issues with it, so... MS. KINZEL: Right. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This will be a good time to go through that. But we still need to kind of hone in on contractual issues if we -- because we're going to wrap this up here fairly soon. So if there are contractual issues that we need to address, let's try to do that. MS. KINZEL: Okay. And I'll let the County Manager speak for herself, but we were all in similar meetings. I think the contract and best summary -- the contract that's before you is before you because we were unable to get David Lawrence to commit to paying for the operating cost or defining those costs and the source. It led back to the language that says, "If it's a shortfall, they'll come to you. If you don't fund it, they'll reduce service." That, seemingly, was the best we were going to get from David Lawrence. I personally think that they had originally committed to the operating costs and maintenance in the first surtax obligation. June 3, 2025 Page 60 The other indicator is that we gave over the entire naming rights so that they would have the ability and the opportunity to get endowments, get donations for the causes that they're used to being in that business. So between those two things, our expectation would be -- my expectation. Let me not speak for anyone else. My expectation would have been that they were going to commit to covering the operating costs. They're in that business. They plan it, they know what the term of the lease is, and there should not be a 900,000 shortfall in the pro forma which can escalate over years that then that gap increases. One of the other segments of the contract indicates that if there's a shortfall in any state, local, or government federal grants, that we would also maybe have to cover those in this gap. Again, not looking on the horizon and not knowing which state and federal, local grants, that leaves an undefined liability on the county and the taxpayers. When I say "county," it is the taxpayers. And so those are some of my very specific contractual concerns. The beds, again, the allocation of beds and the types of beds were fairly defined -- not fairly. They were actually defined in that original pro forma for the surtax. That has morphed considerably. Today, here again, at first you heard, no, "We're going to keep the 33 beds, and we're still going to build the 87." Then when pressed further, it went back to, "Well, yeah, but the 33 are going to be something different." So the type of bed is very important for the reimbursement and for the capacity to earn the revenues, and that is a direct implication on how we will be able to sustain June 3, 2025 Page 61 the funding for the operation of a $56-million-plus facility. So those were my specific concerns, and those have been articulated to David Lawrence over the course of many meetings. They just were not willing to bring that forward. This is brought forward to you with that. Thanks. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Is Ms. Ashkar still here? COMMISSIONER HALL: She is. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you could come up because -- on the issue of the financial obligations of the county, my understanding is that -- under the terms of this agreement, that if David Lawrence Center is not able to meet the needs in terms of operating expenses, they have the ability, as anybody would, to come back to the county and say, "Hey, we need more money." The county has the ability to say, "No, we're not going to spend any more taxpayer dollars. This is your project, not ours, and we're not going to -- we're not going to do anymore." At that point, David Lawrence Center has a couple options, just like any business person would have in any kind of a business, and that is to change their operations to make the finances work. That may be reducing services. It may be something. But I don't think that that's an unusual type of a provision, but I think -- the main thing is I think it does protect the taxpayers because at that point we can just simply say, "We're not satisfied with what you're doing, and we're not going to give you any more money." Is that accurate? MS. ASHKAR: Let me add a little bit more clarity here. Sally Ashkar, assistant county attorney, for the record. It's actually more narrow than that, Commissioner. So June 3, 2025 Page 62 it's if the sources of revenue for the central receiving facility from the feds, the state, or the county are reduced, then David Lawrence Center can submit a request to the county for deficit funding. The county then has the option to either approve that request or approve a reduction in the level of service to account for the reduction in those finances that are coming in, or we can terminate the agreement, at which point the termination section kicks in where David Lawrence can either purchase the building, and if they don't, the county can then do whatever they want with the building and bid it back out if they choose. So it is a very narrow situation under which David Lawrence can come back and request that money from the county, and it is tied to federal, state, and Collier County grant funding, essentially. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So in your opinion, then, does this -- is this commission binding a future commission to undetermined obligations to operate this facility? It sound like we're not. MS. ASHKAR: Hey, look. At the end of the day, Commissioner, there's nothing stopping anybody from coming back and making a funding request. And so we did the best that we could in this operating agreement to limit those funding requests to when there's a deficit in funding, and that's the compromise that we agreed to with David Lawrence Center as we negotiated this agreement from the beginning. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And you got called up before I was done with the Clerk. And I don't June 3, 2025 Page 63 know if you're qualified, or not, to answer the question with regard to the audit between the cost centers. We're talking about 87 new beds in the new facility, and we're talking about an increase from the current 27, 33, whatever -- whatever we have in the existing facility, to a total of 67, and different cost centers that are going between those two. Are we satisfied with the capacity to manage the expenses with the delineation of the cost centers between the two facilities? MS. ASHKAR: Yes. Thank you, Commissioner. I'm probably not the best person to speak to that. I'd defer to our finance team on that one, or the Clerk of Courts. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I didn't mean to ask you the question, but -- MS. KINZEL: Okay. For the record, Clerk, Crystal. That's exactly part of the problem. With the pro forma that you're looking at, it shows, very succinctly, probably about a $900,000 deficit. The naming rights do come into place, and -- but in the agreement, they're first going to be used for furniture and fixtures to offset that part of David Lawrence's obligation, and then they would be used for any other gap. So we can wordsmith this any way there is, but the reality is there appears to be an operating gap that can generate them coming back to this board. You will either have to fund that gap, which we don't know really what it is, and -- or they can reduce services in which you've paid, then, $56 million for a building that may have reduced services, which I don't think is anyone's goal, because we just heard this morning that we need more services. So if David Lawrence were willing to commit to the June 3, 2025 Page 64 contract that they will take the operating gaps and expenses and operate this facility paying the operating and maintenance that they're required -- not the overall for the large elements of the building. But in their original commitment, it was operating and maintenance. And I'm not seeing that clearly articulated. So we can say, well, they can come back, and you can say no, but the reality is, if you say no, services go away, which isn't your goal to build the whole building. So it is the Board's decision. I just think that all of that needs to be on the table for the taxpayers and for this board to make the decision that you feel is the right one for both David Lawrence, our population, and the taxpayer. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did you answer my question about the audit and the cost centers between the -- MS. KINZEL: Yes. There are cost centers in -- they have over -- they have six facilities. A few other ones are in the works. They just received donations under naming rights. Four million for one, 10 million for another. So they do very well in a naming rights condition. We haven't seen that articulated in what they believe they will make. At one point they had thought it would make about 28 million to fill some gaps with the naming rights, but we haven't seen anything solidified with that. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. Oh, I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I had a question. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Wait a minute. Hang on. Are you finished? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. June 3, 2025 Page 65 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: He's got a question first. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That you had of Crystal? I'm sorry. Thank you, Chairman. MS. KINZEL: No, that's okay. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just remembered -- we had a few meetings, and we talked about this in depth. And if -- correct me if I'm wrong. Do you remember I was discussing is there ever going to be a time where these monies commingle with what we're building versus what they already have existing? And is there a delineated line between them? And you have the ability to audit that and make sure that that money doesn't creep? MS. KINZEL: Well, let's -- okay. They partition all of their money in funds, similar to what we do as a county government. Utility's money is Utility. General Fund is General Fund. But things like administrative overhead allocations, that's a very significant calculation across multiple entities, whether it's six or eight entities that they will have. So you really have to look. And Rob does a great job of breaking down all the numbers, but we have had everything from a $2 million admin allocation to 4 million. I think now it's back to the 2 million allocation to administrative overhead. And that will fluctuate with every new thing that they bring online, and it should go down the more things that they're operating with the same management staff. Those are identifiable, and you can audit them, but it is a significant task that if the Clerk is going to audit that, we June 3, 2025 Page 66 will need special capabilities to be able to discern that. When you have a bed mix, for example, whether it's a Medicare bed, a Medicaid bed, whether it's a private pay, all of those revenue streams will come into certain elements of their operations. Those have to be identified and assigned to those elements of the operation. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So I guess this would be County Attorney, too. Is there anything in the contract that gives us that ability to give the comptroller the opportunity to oversee that? MR. KLATZKOW: I think there is. MS. KINZEL: And I found that out. I initially thought it was on the naming rights portion, but if the -- and that is our role is to audit where you have funds and money, and I worked with -- we've worked with Arthrex, we've worked with other large companies. We've worked with David Lawrence before back in my prior job at the Sheriff's Office. But it will take additional resources to keep that, because it's massive. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks. Ms. Ashkar, I just want to make sure that I understand it, because the way that I was thinking was if there was an operational deficit in any sort of way, they could come and ask us. But what you were saying was the only way that they could come to the Board and ask for more money or reduce their services was if a state, federal, or local grant didn't meet the current obligation. MS. ASHKAR: If their sources of revenue from the feds, the state, or the county are reduced, then they can come June 3, 2025 Page 67 and submit a request for operational funding. COMMISSIONER HALL: So if the state's good and the county's -- we're sticking with our obligation, and all of a sudden DOGE efforts come screaming forward and the feds reduce theirs, then they can come to us, ask us to meet the gap for what the feds are not meeting? MS. ASHKAR: Correct. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And we do not have to respond in a positive way. MS. ASHKAR: The county is certainly free to terminate the agreement. We can deny the request and terminate the agreement. We can approve the request. The alternative, which we've discussed extensively here today, is the reduction in the level of service to account for that deficit. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think, Commissioner Hall, that would be similar to, I guess, any business. If you had a resort hotel with certain services and all of a sudden the water -- the beaches are polluted, tourists stop coming, they're going to reduce services. So I mean, I think that that's probably a rational provision. COMMISSIONER HALL: It's not -- it's different because a hotel is their private investor's money. It's not public funds. We're spending public funds, 56 million, to build an asset that's going to be operated by David Lawrence Center. So if they don't operate it like they need to or if some of their revenue sources get cut, they don't have the choice to sell it. If we were private investors, we could reduce our services, we could put it for sale, we could capitalize on the June 3, 2025 Page 68 equity. We could do a lot of things as private, but to be -- it's public money that's building it. And I just want -- I want to do everything we can to plan to win. If you plan -- if you fail to plan, you plan to fail, and I don't want to be in that situation. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I agree with you 100 percent. I think you're absolutely right. It is public money, and we have to be careful with it, but it just seems like that's a rational provision in case the world falls apart. COMMISSIONER HALL: I don't agree -- I mean, I don't agree with that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And maybe -- you know, I have a little bit of experience in managing public funds. And we're looking for an amount for an operational expense that really isn't able to be ascertained. The regulations change, federal, state regulations with regard to quality of care. The circumstances change on a regular basis. So I certainly -- I understand -- I understand the rationale for the ask. I'm just -- I haven't been satisfied with process after process after process that have come here and then -- and not the commitment to operate the facility. I just haven't seen that. And so I'd like to ask our County Manager -- I've -- we've had lengthy conversations with regard to this entire process all the way from not having an operating agreement at all to what we, in fact, have now. I would like -- if you would like to give your comments, please. MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. So you're correct, we June 3, 2025 Page 69 found ourselves several months ago getting ready to transact the land, and all we had was a skeleton of an operating agreement. So that was something that the Board had been very specific about, that we had to have a strong operating agreement. So we were understanding the roles and responsibilities, both of the county and of David Lawrence. So we've worked -- and it hasn't been easy. And so I will say that all of you are right. We're here because we reached some consensus, but there are still concerns that David Lawrence is well aware of. And the staff is in a difficult position because we are trying to provide that protection to the taxpayers while moving forward a project that's very important to the taxpayers. So it's an interesting -- interesting place to be. So through all this time, David Lawrence needed protection, too. We started with a marriage with no ability to divorce. I think you've heard us say that. And we needed to be able to account for what happens if we needed to go our separate ways. So the teams worked together, and like any negotiation, there are compromises that are embodied in this agreement. The reduction in level of service is not something we love, but we understand why David Lawrence is saying that as an option if there is no funding to continue on. Besides just saying, "We'll go our separate ways," there would be the possibility of reducing level of service. That was something that was offered by David Lawrence. Regarding the funding, of course, we've tried very hard to get our arms around that to make sure that those funding sources are delineated and that the Clerk will be able to audit to the -- to the level that she needs to. So that's another June 3, 2025 Page 70 important piece of this. Identifying what our financial obligation is, that was a very important aspect to the Board. At the last meeting, we knew -- we brought the item forward as close as we -- and we articulated this the last time, we got the operating agreement as close as we could. So essentially, again, no different than any negotiation, with a recommendation that the Board review and consider that operating agreement. We had been very clear in all of our meetings that we expected the Board to have more questions. Now, that may not be questions that needed to be embodied in the operating agreement, but perhaps clarifications or other information that they would need to make a final decision. For example, Commissioner Kowal asked how many new employees needed to be hired. There was, again, some confusion about the beds. Commissioner McDaniel brought up that he wanted to be sure that the fundings -- the funding was delineated in the operating of these different facilities. So those are things that may simply be able to be addressed by David Lawrence as part of their presentation, as Commissioner Saunders has, perhaps things that maybe need slight tweaks to the operating agreement. That was new today. So we want to say this: Is that I and the rest of the staff have been very clear in our concerns throughout this process. David Lawrence knows very well where we have been positioned and where we continue to have areas of concern. But, again, it's a balance between delivering this board something that they can contemplate that not only protects the taxpayers but also advances a project that was June 3, 2025 Page 71 important to the taxpayers, and that is something that we presented to the Board for that conversation and for further direction. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, anything else? COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman, yes. I mean, I can appreciate -- because there is a ditch on both sides of the road, and we don't want to fall in either ditch. But I did have a thought. If there's a surplus in federal or state funding, could we agree to let that offset our local match? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Since that probably never would happen, we probably could. Has there ever been a surplus? COMMISSIONER HALL: It's if. If a frog had wings -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He wouldn't -- COMMISSIONER HALL: -- he wouldn't bump his butt when he hopped. But I was just thinking about if we have to share in the downside, can we -- can we join in on the upside? MS. PATTERSON: I'm actually looking in the back at Kristi. Also, I want to be sure when we -- when you use the term "local match," that has a very specific definition. COMMISSIONER HALL: Maybe our local obligation. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, thank you. A local obligation could be higher than our local match. Thank you. Kristi. MS. SONNTAG: Yes. Kristi Sonntag, Community June 3, 2025 Page 72 and Human Services director, for the record. In answer to your question, Commissioner, local match is defined by Florida Statute 394 in Florida Administrative Code, and it states that counties are only responsible to make up the difference. So if the state says that the match is a million dollars and David Lawrence Center has other sources of revenue that come to 800,000 and they're short 200-, our only obligation would be the 200-. MS. PATTERSON: So I think that's a yes. MS. SONNTAG: Yes. So that -- yes, that -- yes -- MS. PATTERSON: Our obligation -- MS. SONNTAG: So, yes. If they had other sources of revenue, yes, you could offset our local match obligation, yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Good. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Commissioner Hall, I can assure you that frogs do not have wings, and I can also assure you that there typically is not excess funding coming from federal/state agencies. There is a huge opportunity for philanthropic dollars which has been a difficult thing for us to all grab ahold of here with the naming rights, the delineation of the expansion and the existing facility after the new facility is constructed and how that's all going to be orchestrated as well. And my last question -- and this goes back to what's already been discussed, is not the pro forma that's in front of us showing a loss, a million-dollar deficit, 900-and-something a year? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. I don't June 3, 2025 Page 73 have to say any more than that. I don't -- I don't want to walk into something that's failing on day one. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Are there any other questions from the Commission? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any other registered speakers? I think you said there's two. MR. MILLER: We have two people on Zoom. Would you like me to call them now? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's hear the registered speakers, and then I have a comment to make as well. MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Matthew Holiday, and he'll be followed by Megan Edwards. Matthew -- oh, you've unmuted yourself. You have three minutes, sir. MR. HOLIDAY: Good morning, County Commissioners and Chair. It is my pleasure to speak with you. I hope you can hear me. This is my first time trying to Zoom in. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We can hear you. MR. HOLIDAY: On behalf of NCH -- we have tremendous confidence in the ability of the David Lawrence Center to operate and manage this very much needed project. We know that they are singularly focused on their mission and it would ultimately serve a very needy population, increase the services across our region and our community, and ultimately save lives. We know they are the right care at the right time and the right place, and I hope that we will all be able to come together and support this great project and move it forward. And that's all I have this morning. Thank you. June 3, 2025 Page 74 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: And, Mr. Chair, my other person on Zoom must have gotten stage fright, as they're now gone. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me just kind of wrap up on this portion of our workshop. I think it was very beneficial for us to spend the last two hours on this. If we didn't do this this morning, then we'd be doing this next Tuesday with a whole lot of other pressures involved. So I think this has been very helpful. I would suggest to my colleagues that if there are some specific issues that are troubling you at this point and need to be addressed further, perhaps an email to the manager to let her know so she can get those concerns to David Lawrence Center, because I think the last thing we want to do is be sitting here on Tuesday with brand-new issues that no one has talked about or heard of, because that just simply gets us bogged down. If there are other issues, Commissioner McDaniel in particular, if you've got some other contractual issues, let us know so we can begin to address those, and if there are other funding issues; otherwise, I think this should go fairly smoothly one way or the other in terms of getting to a final determination. Any other comments from the Board? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then why don't we move on to the next item on our workshop agenda. Item #2C COLLIER COUNTY 2025 ANNUAL UPDATE AND June 3, 2025 Page 75 INVENTORY REPORT (AUIR)/CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT ELEMENT (CIE) - PRESENTED BY MIKE BOSI, DIVISION DIRECTOR, PLANNING & ZONING WITH OTHER PRESENTERS ON SPECIFIC REPORTING TOPICS; DISCUSSED MS. PATTERSON: Very good. That brings us to Item 2C. This is the Collier County 2024 Annual Update and Inventory Report, Capital Improvement Element, CIE, discussion. This comes to our workshop as a request by -- from a request from the Board to talk a little bit more about the AUIR and levels of service that are developed as part of this. So we have prepared a number of slides from the various components of infrastructure. Some you're very familiar with, and they will focus more specifically on needs. Others are going to be a more -- more in-depth conversation about our levels of service. Mr. Bosi will start with just a short overview before we move straight into the various components of the AUIR. MR. BOSI: Good morning. Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director. Thank you, Amy. I've got a 10-slide presentation just to kind of give you the backdrop of the AUIR and some of the components of why we do it and how it's related to our capital improvements as well as our levels of service that are experienced throughout the community for the various commodities that we do provide. Today's focus, as the County Manager has indicated, the adopted level of service. That is the level that we build to to be able to provide for the infrastructure and the June 3, 2025 Page 76 services. The five- and 10-year list of the projects, some current deficiencies/surpluses in funding, and development of expected maintenance needs over the five- and 10-year period with expectations, cost associated with that maintenance as discussed at the May 27th board hearing with Facilities. Last -- prior Tuesday when you heard the conversation from Facility Management of the development of that plan, that's the other part. Every year we come to you and we have the AUIR Capital Improvement Element, and those are the projects we need to maintain with growth. The other part is the maintenance aspects, and the maintenance aspects has a lot to do with who we are and where we are at as a county. We have grown significantly over the last 30 and 40 years. We've added assets over that period of time to maintain the population growth. Well, those assets are starting to come to a critical point in their useful life, and maintenance is a critical component of maintaining those useful lives. So the cost associated with that, which is going to be developed over the next year, will be the final piece of the bigger picture of the financial obligations that the county has regarding our assets as well as maintaining our levels of service. A little bit of history lesson. Ninety -- 1990 was when the AUIR -- the adequate public facilities ordinance was approved by the Board of County Commissioners and subsequently codified it in the LDC, and the purpose was to provide public facilities and services, make sure that they met or exceeded the standards established in the CIE required by Section 163.317 and are available for June 3, 2025 Page 77 needed -- for the development associated with the approvals that are provided for; making sure that growth pays for growth. In 6.02.02 of the LDC, we established the AUIR which provides for the annual determinations of levels of service also -- which is the concurrency for your Category A facilities and identification of additional facilities needed. Your concurrency management system is your Category A facilities. That's your roads, your stormwater, your public utilities, parks, and schools. Those are your primary that make up your concurrency management system. And the AUIR formulates your CIE, which is your Capital Improvement Element associated with your Growth Management Plan, and that preps you for your budgetary preparations which start this -- you know, start this month. Also, 6.02.02 states, the purpose of the AUIR is the management and monitoring program that evaluates the conditions of public facilities to ensure that they are being adequately planned for and funded to maintain the level of service for public facilities. Ten years ago the state required that your Category A facilities were all fiscally feasible, meaning they had to be backed with revenue -- identified revenue sources. That requirement has been subsequently lifted. As you will see within this current CIE that we approved in January, there were some unfunded needs that were associated, but that is in concurrence with the state law that you're allowed to have some unidentified revenue sources. For your Category A facilities, the AUIR serves as identifying and maintaining your levels of service associated with the capital facilities, but they're not subject to the June 3, 2025 Page 78 concurrency management system. Essentially, the AUIR is the management and the monitoring program which ensures that level of service is maintained within the individual impact fees that are associated with Category B facilities. And impact fees are something that's directly interrelated with our capital improvement programming. We have impact fees that are associated that are gauged to be able -- to be able to acquiesce what the cost of providing that service is for an individual household, and those individual households, as they are moved -- as they move into the county are charged to be able to expand the system to accommodate their additional demand. And it's succinct, and it's a user fee. It's the user who is expanding the demand for those facilities, so it's the user who is paying for the expansion of those facilities. And that's the basic premise of what our impact fees are for. The rational nexus within your impact fees is population. Population is the growth within the county that places additional strain upon the service providers to maintain the level of service. As such, the level of service established in an impact fee study, facilities will have to expand to satisfy the demands of the larger population base. Basically, it's saying as population comes, we will maintain that level of service, and those impact fees are almost individual contracts that the homeowner has with the government to say those levels of service are going to be maintained. That's what I moved here for, and that's what I want -- that's what -- I want the government to maintain that level of service moving forward. Within impact fee studies for the Category B facilities, population is a constant for each of them. What you'll June 3, 2025 Page 79 notice, and I'll get to at the last slide, your Transportation, your Stormwater, and your Public Utilities utilize population, but it's not the only driver within the system expansion. They'll get into the specifics of that for their levels of service. The dual rational nexus test that the Florida courts have established justifies population is your first component, and the second is the government must show how the rational nexus between the expenditure of impact fee revenues and the benefits occurring -- or benefit the new developments. The second criteria is within that dual rational nexus test is that the impact fees that are collected, are they providing a specific benefit to the individuals who are paying those? And we maintain that by maintaining the levels of service, which is ultimately expressed through an AUIR as well as the CIE. As a -- in totality, the AUIR stands as a checkbook for the levels of service adopted by the county and formalized through the collection of impact fees engaged against the demands of new population. So that's a long way of saying we make sure that growth is paying for growth, that new users pay for the system expansions, and that what brought you here, the levels of service of infrastructure and services will be maintained moving forward. An overview of today's workshop, each individual section will cover, like I said, their adopted levels of service, how -- you know, what -- the specifics of how they arrived upon that. The five- and 10-year list of projects needed to satisfy that levels of service, as you saw within the January 28th AUIR highlights some of the current deficit and surpluses, and also, like I said, mentioned the June 3, 2025 Page 80 development of that maintenance plan, which would be the last piece of the total revenue associated with -- with the fiscal obligations associated with growth. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on just one second. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you done? MR. BOSI: Yeah. The last slide was just adopted levels of service. So you could ask -- and I should have said you -- any questions anytime, I'm free to take. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- I wanted to wait till you were completed. My number-one question is is there's an enormous amount of data and information in here regarding our school district, which is an absolute independent authority, independent impact fees, independent taxation, separately elected board. Now, they're -- there's no argument that they have an enormous impact on our community from an infrastructure standpoint both in drawing of services, level of service on our road system, so on and so forth. But my question, where are we -- why are we dealing with the school district in this AUIR? MR. BOSI: The school district is part of your Capital Improvement Element. When we adopted the interlocal agreement and we adopted the school -- the School Public Facilities Element of your Growth Management Plan, we included the school district as part of your Category A facilities. But you're right, the -- by the time that you hear the AUIR in the fall, the school district would have -- has already adopted their -- adopted their five-year capital project in September. You hear it normally in December or January of the following year. June 3, 2025 Page 81 So there's not -- there's not an obligation from the county to have any revenue contribution related to their capital improvement programming, but it is still a part of our Capital Improvement Element, and that's why schools are included in the AUIR and CIE because of the public school's facility element [sic] that was appointed in around 2010/2011. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And is that interlocal agreement still in effect? MR. BOSI: The interlocal -- there's two interlocal agreements. One was established in 2003. One was established in 2007. That -- the 2007 interlocal agreement has expired. That deals with how we review school projects. There's a basic understanding between the school district and the Board of County -- or general purpose county government that we still review plans to that -- to those standards, to that existing -- or to the interlocal, but the time frame has expired, and there could be benefits in terms of the staff eventually re-establishing that with the school district moving forward to be able to address some issues related to school board review and with the fact that charter schools have grown in popularity, and they've also grown in terms of the stature [sic]. The state statutes now consider charter schools part of the public school system. Because of that, we have an obligation to treat those charter schools as public schools and, therefore, they benefit from the same benefits that are contained within that interlocal agreement related to the -- your traditional public schools. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's my -- it's my personal opinion that we haven't given enough attention to June 3, 2025 Page 82 the impact of our school system on our asset base. I mean, it may be easily accountable for refuge [sic] removal, water/sewer disposal, or water and sewer and so on and so forth, but especially with regard to the impact on our road systems. The advent of the school choice that's coming about and the money that's about to start following the students, I believe -- I mean, there's a disparity right now between the state education system and the revenue per child to the school district and to a charter school. It's about $8,000 for a child at the charter school and 22,5- or something for public school, but that's going to shift, this advent of school choice. And as the money starts to follow the child, we're going to see schools popping up in a lot of locations that -- we're already seeing them coming now. Number one. Number two, when we -- it's imperative that we do tighten up on the interlocal agreement with -- that allows for us to have a say-so in the impacts of the schools and their locations on our infrastructure even with the existing schools that we currently have. It's nothing to drive up and down any particular road on school let-out time, and traffic's backed up out into our right-of-ways with parents trying to get in to get their children, and that needs to be accounted for in some form or format, either larger properties to queue the parents in to get them in or out, something -- something needs to be addressed there definitely. My second point -- now I'm off of schools. My second point is this rationale about growth paying for growth, and that's the accommodation of our impact fees in relationship to our population and the level of service associated with Categories A and B. June 3, 2025 Page 83 How can we effectively manage that need based upon a population if -- if what I'm led to believe is correct and that we've been direly inadequate in the estimation of the upkeep and maintenance of the existing facilities that we have? I was told seven years ago when we established the 301 account that the two-plus-billion dollars of assets of Collier County were -- were being accounted for, were being entered into the system to ascertain -- and I think I used a word that tripped up Commissioner Hall, and I called it actuarial with regard to the useful life of our two-plus-billion dollars in assets. I don't want to -- we don't want to -- we don't want to stop doing what we need to do based upon the statute with requisite to population and so on, but it is -- it is imperative that we start accounting for the capital asset replacement and ongoing maintenance that we have. Every single one of us have issues within our district of deficit funded capital projects and ongoing maintenance. Commissioner Saunders, when you and I came into office eight years ago, there was a billion-dollars-plus -- a billion dollars of deficit-funded capital projects and ongoing maintenance that wasn't attained. It wasn't accounted for. It was on the front page of the budget. I say it was -- it was in the budget. I'm one of the few that reads the budget. But we as a -- we as a system -- we as a government system need to account for those assets, their useful life, and the maintenance associated with the useful life. We can't just collect $100 million in impact fees and go build something and then not have a plan for how we're going to pay for it either in the operational aspects or ongoing maintenance. June 3, 2025 Page 84 MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We completely agree with that, and building off of Mr. Dunnuck's presentation last week is the plan to gather all of that information and then develop a plan not only for what we already have but also for anything that we build that needs to be part of when we come to you saying we're going to build, whatever, a library. You need to understand the useful life and the maintenance cycles that are attached to that facility. We've done a better job with some of our in-ground infrastructure, things like utilities and some aspects of transportation. Stormwater, we're getting there. Obviously, you know, that's a huge number looking at the backlog on stormwater maintenance, but we've done not as good of a job when we look at our vertical construction, our buildings. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm good for now. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, when it comes to the problems with our building maintenance and, basically, the repair and maintenance of all of our facilities, what is the -- what is the source of funding for that type of activity? You know, you've got this building here that is in desperate need of either being torn down or fixed. Most likely torn down and being replaced. But in terms of maintenance, how do we pay for maintenance? What -- where do the funds come from for maintenance? MS. PATTERSON: Largely from the General Fund and 111. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So -- MS. PATTERSON: So property taxes and other general revenue. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So -- and I knew the answer to that I just wanted to make sure that that was the June 3, 2025 Page 85 case. So when we -- we cut our millage rate, we are impacting the ability to maintain our current facilities to some extent. The only alternative, once we do that, is to move money from some other projects or something to do that. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So you would -- it's a prioritization exercise. So you could reprioritize programming or something like that if the priority was to -- to maintain buildings. We haven't given you a good sense of what it takes to maintain five million square feet of aging buildings, so that's another issue. But they're not -- short of developing another funding source, like going out for another surtax, you don't have the flexibility in these funding sources to use others. So without new revenue sources, it falls back on the General Fund in 111, and if the sources there are reduced, then obviously it reduces our ability to do everything. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, are you determining the amount of shortfall we have at this point in time in our maintenance activities? MS. PATTERSON: So it's going to take a little bit of time to do that. We do have the obvious things that had been addressed even as part of the last surtax offering, some of the bigger air-conditioning -- the chiller plant on campus, some of the bigger roof structures, some of the work at the jail. But when we talk about the five million square feet that we're responsible for, getting our arms around that is part of a larger exercise. In that will include Parks' buildings. So we understand maintenance of Parks' fields. I'll go on a limb and say we know how to keep the grass, generally. But those buildings all need to be taken care of as well. So when June 3, 2025 Page 86 we do this comprehensive look at everything that we have, it will include the entire suite of buildings that we're responsible for maintaining. So, yes, we are attempting to get our arms around that. We know -- what we know is very expensive, and it's -- the price tag is just going to keep going up as you add more buildings in. We have a lot of buildings that are -- you know, they're older. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Will we have some estimates during our budget process? MS. PATTERSON: We could give you representative costs, so the cost to replace air-conditioning, the cost to replace roofs, and I think that our Facilities folks would be able to make some general statements about how old the building is, when it might need things done to its air-conditioning or to its roofs or to other general maintenance. We won't know specifically, for example, what needs to be done to Eagle Lakes Community Park, because that will be part of this inventorying. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I don't think we would need to have specifics on different buildings and different facilities, but I think just having some general idea of how much money is needed in each of the next five years, for example, to maintain our facilities -- MS. PATTERSON: Yep. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- I think would be helpful for us. MS. PATTERSON: And I think you'll be able to get at least a picture of that, because obviously we have prioritized maintenance. That's places where we know there are actually things wrong, so that's going to tell you probably June 3, 2025 Page 87 where we would go first. The problem, too, is that when we go to do what we think our repairs, were findings that things are way more aged than we anticipated, and so that triggers a whole 'nother cycle of things. But Mr. Dunnuck and Mr. DeLony will definitely be prepared to talk about this more in the budget process. It's informed the way that they've developed their budget this year and then their plan forward. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And just one point. And I'm not throwing any rocks. This isn't new. This subject has been going on for quite some time. We established the 301 account, what, seven years ago, the Capital Asset Replacement and Maintenance Fund. I was told that the actuaries, the determination of the useful life of our assets, was being inputted into the system so that we could define how much, Commissioner Saunders, out of our General Fund revenues needed to be appropriated on an annual basis for ongoing repairs and, ultimately, replacement of those assets when they reach their useful life. I've since learned that that wasn't necessarily all of the case. We did it in some but not in all. And so I'm really happy to hear that we're having these discussions. It's going to bode the discussion on how we're -- how we're going to -- how we're going to go forward and what we're prioritizing with regard to the expenditure of the taxpayers' money as we move forward. MR. BOSI: And just to finish up, this -- like I said, this was the last slide. As you will notice, the first five individual categories within your adopted levels of service, population is not the primary factor. It's one of the factors June 3, 2025 Page 88 that is established within the formula that arrives upon their levels of service. But then from Parks to Jails to Law Enforcement, Libraries, County Government, and EMS, they're all population based, just to provide you just a little distinction. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: On Emergency Medical Services, I can't make any sense out of what that line item actually says. We have a bunch of people that, perhaps, are involved in the Emergency Medical Services and first responders that are in the audience. But perhaps you could help me understand the 16,400 per population. MR. BOSI: For every station, there's one -- it's 16,400 people. That's the level-of-service standard. One station represents 16,400. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: For each EMS station? MR. BOSI: Yes. MS. PATTERSON: It's actually the 24-hour-a-day response unit. So EMS has got a very strange situation with their level of service. They're going to talk about it a little bit when they get up here, but basically this represents the ambulance and some associated space at a station, but essentially it's the -- it's the emergency response unit. There's a lot going on in EMS. This level of service is one that we intend to -- I'm taking away a little of their presentation. This is one we tend to -- or we're going to plan on making a recommendation to reevaluate because this is actually just one of three levels of service that are used in EMS. The second level of service, which definitely needs to be updated, is a response-time level of service, but it's delineated by an artificial urban rural boundary that really no longer exists. So 12-minute response time in some areas; June 3, 2025 Page 89 eight in another. And then lastly, there's a level of service that applies pertaining to the impact fees, and this is a tricky situation in EMS because of the collocated stations. So as we move forward here with the evolution of the COPCN and the potential for other transport agencies, we're really going to be looking at the way that we place units. And so it's not so much that we're going to build our way out of our situation with EMS but rather the strategic placements of those units throughout the county as well as looking at how the addition of other transport units will actually help our system. It's actually -- it's pretty exciting, although that sounds kind of nerdy of me to say that. But to look at this level of service now, I think you're going to see big changes in this one in the coming years to the positive. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm not stealing any thunder either, I think, but I've seen some emails flying around about cooperative efforts with our independent fire districts and the transport, and then the alignment of the protocols to allow for that to transpire -- MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- which is an enhancement, ultimately, to the care of our residents. That -- in my mind's eye, the number one -- the number one level of service is the time associated to get someone there to assist. MS. PATTERSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Period. MS. PATTERSON: The operational level of service -- and it's one that needs to be reviewed. We just June 3, 2025 Page 90 have a level of service that tells us how we need to provide units as -- as population grows. But again, now with -- there's been questions over the years about -- with ALS. Even non-transport ALS, how does that impact your response times? And now looking at, again, the dispersement of those units with the fire district coming on to help is going to allow us to look at this differently and really get units placed where they need to be versus being tied to what's been sort of a station model. And again, us building an EMS station and Fire building a fire station across the street, those days are over. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We're going to need to, in about 20 minutes, take a court reporter break if we're not finished. Do you have anything else in terms of the presentation? MS. PATTERSON: Yes. We have the individual facilities to come up. They each have a short number of slides. We can get started on those. And we'll move along fairly quickly. The highlights of this, largely, other than what I just stole from EMS, is going to be on some of the areas where there are shortfalls, where we want to bring those to the Board's attention, as well as some of the other levels of service that we will be working on here, upcoming government buildings being one of those. So let's go ahead and -- let's get started with stormwater, if we can, if we've got them queued up. Might as well jump right into the best topic of the day. MS. SCOTT: Well, I hope it goes up from here. For the record, Trinity Scott, your Transportation Management Services department head. June 3, 2025 Page 91 I have a plethora of my team here with me today who may assist with answering any questions you might have, but we're certainly going to start with probably one of our biggest areas of needs of infrastructure, not only capital, but also maintenance. So our stormwater infrastructure's comprised of several miles of major canals, many of which that are maintained by the county. We do have a cooperative agreement with the Big Cypress Basin where they do maintain a large portion as well. We have multiple water control structures, lots of pipes, and many miles of roadside swales. To get right into it, over the next five years, the blue on this bar chart represents what our anticipated revenues are, and the orange are our capital needs at this time. So just dive down into that, in FY '26, we are anticipating over a $64 million shortfall, and over the five years a $300 million shortfall in projects that we know that we need to do. This is a list of the projects just for FY '26. And I should note that this is a little different than probably the backup documentation that you have for the AUIR, because we did sync this up with what's going to be coming to you for your budget next year. So the AUIR document, we actually prepared this probably about a year ago now. So we wanted to sync those numbers up. The very first thing that you'll note is a stormwater utility study, a need for automation, which would provide some efficiency with regard to our maintenance activities. Just to give a little bit about automation, the Water Management District can essentially adjust their stormwater management structures from their home if they had to June 3, 2025 Page 92 where, for us, for our facilities, Marshal -- Mr. Miller has to actually send out crew members to make those modifications. We can monitor some things from our office, but to actually make modifications to where a weir level is, we have to send people out. So being able to do that with technology would certainly help us long term. Many of the projects on this slide are what we call partnership projects where we are working cooperatively with the local utility providers to be efficient, try to disrupt our citizens only once and go out there and tear up a road once and while they're replacing their utilities, but we're also bringing that stormwater infrastructure up as well. Some of our maintenance challenges are we don't know what we don't know. Much of our infrastructure is underground. Our proactive, clean view and repair -- and repair. It's one thing to go out and clean it and look at it, but we have to go back out and fix what -- what we identify as well is essential. We -- Ms. Patterson talked about and Mr. Bosi talked about -- and I'm really dovetailing on a lot of things that Mr. Dunnuck brought up last week when we were talking about multiple assets degrading at the same time. You can definitely, when you're looking at the age of our infrastructure, see that we built a lot; then we didn't build some. Then we built a lot. So we have a lot of things that are degrading all at once. We bring on new assets; that means more maintenance needs. Vanderbilt Beach Road extension, that's a lot of stormwater infrastructure now that we're underground infrastructure as well as our Carson Road stormwater pond. All of these are necessary asset adds, but they do require June 3, 2025 Page 93 more maintenance needs. So our stormwater funding, we -- our capital projects, they must be synced with that local utility provider for efficiency and coordination purposes. We're working with the Office of Management and Budget strategizing on short-term funding needs for FY '26 to get these projects moving, but we know that we need a dedicated long-term funding source to address our new and aging infrastructure. So we're going to have some further conversations as we go into FY '26 of how we do that. So that's the end of the stormwater. I see the -- don't hurt your finger pushing that button, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I thought I said that. Did I -- yep. I'll try it again. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. When are we going to have the discussion with the stormwater utility? MS. PATTERSON: We are making a request for funding for the stormwater utility as part of the budget. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MS. PATTERSON: And if your colleagues agree, then that will set us down the path to hire a consultant to develop the methodology, which we already have our thoughts about that and have talked to outside counsel. But that will set us down the path to begin that process. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So we have to do a study in advance of the adoption or the presentation of that to come forward? June 3, 2025 Page 94 MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're not going to do what we did before, are we? MS. PATTERSON: Well, I don't plan on it going the way that the one went the last time, so... COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay, good. Well -- and there again, just to reiterate, we spent a half a million dollars on a consultant to come tell us about a utility that was an absolute folly. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We're looking at, as discussed, bringing in the fee at a basic level and holding it for a period of time before we start to index it up. Two different thought processes on whether we establish the fee for maintenance throughout the county and then look at districts or basins to deal with the capital projects is one offshoot of this that we can talk about more, because everybody participates in the maintenance, but not everybody has capital projects going on at the same time. So there's a few different ways we can -- we can look at that, but the first thing is to take the complexity out of it, but because it's a fee, it still requires that study in order to do the whole nexus and all that that's required for the special assessment. So we'll go through that process, but not in the same way as before. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And that establishment of that non-ad valorem assessment will then allow for -- assuming it meets all of the tests and criterion, it will allow for a managed bonding to be able to take care of some of the short-term needs that we, in fact, have. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then we'll also June 3, 2025 Page 95 be able to assure our tax base that -- some assurance as to what those -- what those ongoing expenses, in fact, are going to be. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MS. PATTERSON: And it does make it a special assessment, which is a below-the-line assessment and not -- it's not a millage-driven. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. MS. PATTERSON: So there's stability. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well -- and that was what -- that was what caused a lot of issue before because it was a millage-rate-driven portion of the existing millage rate that then got managed differently based upon previous priorities and the expenditure of the available funds. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We did have what I like to call the semi-dedicated millage. It wasn't a voter-enacted millage, but it was a semi-dedicated by resolution, and there was a change made -- this is all pre-utility. A change was made to that resolution where it was .15 mills equivalent to up to, and during the recession it went to almost zero. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MS. PATTERSON: All right. Thank you. MS. SCOTT: Do you want me to continue forward and go onto roads? MS. PATTERSON: Well, you might as well. We'll just keep Trinity up here, and she can go right into roads. I think we can do that before Terri needs a break. You all are very familiar with transportation. So she's going to quickly June 3, 2025 Page 96 get to telling you how she needs money. MS. SCOTT: Hold onto your wallets. Okay. So as Mr. Bosi discussed, our level of service is based not by population but actually based on traffic counts and actual usage of the roadway system. Our adopted level of service is a Level of Service E for our roadways that are already to a six-lane or their maximum widening capability for what we do here. Lots of folks, when I go out and talk with people, they want to know, why don't you have a Level of Service A? Well, Level of Service A would be inefficient use of our limited funds. We'd have roads that didn't have folks on it for a majority of the day. So our level of service is determined. We conduct traffic counts multiple times throughout the year, and that, then, is analyzed based on the actual capacity of the roadway. Over the next five years, we plan to add about 45 additional lane miles. And when I'm talking about level of service, on an annual basis we are assessing the annual -- the level of service on about 1,400 lane miles of collector and arterial roadways. So for '26 through '30, we have 16 construction projects, which are multiple bridges, 45 additional lane miles, including major intersection improvements. This bar graph's a little better. The green are our revenues, and the red are our unfunded needs. You see a large amount in Fiscal Year '28. We have several large projects in FY '28, many of which are affiliated with Immokalee Road, and I'll get into some of those in just a moment. For FY '26, we have a total unfunded need of just under June 3, 2025 Page 97 $50 million. '27 is just about 28 million. That high number in '28, 260 million goes down in '29. And actually, in Fiscal Year '30 we have a little bit of a surplus, so -- but overall -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Wait till she's done. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I do have a question on some of these shortfalls. So go back to that one where you had the big spike in '28. MS. SCOTT: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why does that big spike in '28 disappear in '29? What is providing the funds? MS. SCOTT: So those are unfunded. So in Fiscal Year '28, we have a large unfunded need. So in '29 that goes down, and it's just based on timing of projects, when projects are available. Projects could slide out if we wanted to slide them out. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It going down in '29 is not a reflection of the fact that we found funds for the -- MS. SCOTT: No. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- '28 shortfall? MS. SCOTT: No, it's not. That is not a cumulative. That is each individual year. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It could be cumulative. MS. SCOTT: So overall, for the five years, we are in need of $314 million at this time. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's a lot better than the stormwater. MS. SCOTT: It's on par; same. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: About the same. June 3, 2025 Page 98 MS. SCOTT: Yeah, about the same. So this is a breakdown of our funding opportunities that we have, a large part of impact fees, gas tax, some General Fund, grants, as well, but you see the large -- a large part of this pie is our unfunded needs at 45 percent. For projects that are in the outer years of the program, we will certainly continue to work to try to obtain grants, but we're -- I would be remiss in telling you that we could -- we could come up with $300 million of grants. We could maybe make a small dent, but not a huge one. More like a hail dent, not a -- you know... So for our roadway needs for Fiscal Year '26, that $50 million is Collier Boulevard. That's that widening through Golden Gate City, that last four-to-six-lane section. Also, Everglades Boulevard right-of-way, as well as beginning the construction of Vanderbilt Beach Road Phase 2. And these are partial unfunded. Remember, I have impact fees, and I have impact fee districts. So we're looking at our collections. And I can't take impact fees from this area and spend it over here unless it's a regional roadway. So these are partial unfunded projects. With regard to our pavement maintenance program, just getting into those maintenance areas a little bit, we have a five-year maintenance plan that we just recently developed. We're utilizing new technology with regard to that. We have loaded all of the information that we've gathered into the system, and we're using some out-of-the-box degradation schedules. Our plan is in three to five years, go back, utilizing similar technology that we just used to be able to refine our algorithm as far as our degradation schedules and be able to June 3, 2025 Page 99 really continue to develop that five-, 10-, and ultimately a 20-year paving schedule for our roadways. So as of right now, we have some maintenance plans in place, but we're -- we aim to further refine them as we move forward. Just to talk a little bit about sidewalk maintenance. We have about 460 miles of sidewalk that we inspect annually. In 2024, the Florida Department of Transportation modified their standards of what was an allowable lift. So previously, we could have a three quarter of an inch lift in a sidewalk, and FDOT changed those guidelines down to a quarter of an inch. So that immediately created a big backlog of maintenance items that we have. And we're working through those, but we're working through those with contractors. So once we get caught up, we're hopeful that we can stay caught up, but remember, we're also always taking on new additional facilities as well. I want to touch on signal maintenance just quickly. In the last 20 years, our signals, our preemption devices, our traffic counters have increased by more than 30 percent as far as the number of assets. But in that time frame, we've had the same number of people who maintain those. That's seven people in the county who maintain over 234 -- 237 signals. And so, yes, we're doing an efficient job, but there's really that balance of our maintenance needs and taking on those new facilities as well. So you'll be hearing about that in an upcoming budget about some expanded requests with regard to signal maintenance. So our maintenance challenges are, once again, multiple assets degrading at once due to clustered build June 3, 2025 Page 100 times. Back in the early 2000s, we brought in Norman Feder to be me. Norman built a lot of things. Well, now we're maintaining a lot of things that were built in a very short period of time. So those new assets mean more maintenance needs. Once again, Vanderbilt Beach Road extension. Our TIGER project just completed up. That's 20 miles of new sidewalk in the Immokalee area, and while that's great for the Immokalee area and the folks who are walking out there, it puts a tremendous strain now on our maintenance folks, and we need to stay up on that, and now I have 20 new miles of sidewalk to inspect every year and repair as necessary. We have increased contract costs without increase in service. So for those services that we contract out, whether that's mowing or concrete or pavement maintenance, those contract prices are going up, but we're not getting a higher level of service for it. And realistically speaking, our budgets have remained flat. So when budgets remain flat but those contract prices go up, you know, we're really -- you get squeezed in other areas then. So it's certainly a very delicate balance that we weave through. So for our roadway funding, we anticipate reimposing our nine cent local option fuel tax that's set to expire December 31st. We're working with OMB to strategize on our short-term funding, and then we'll be discussing further discussion in FY '26 for different funding alternatives which could be a bonding of that gas tax similar to what Commissioner McDaniel was speaking about for the stormwater utility but really watching interest rates and all of that to see when the right time to do that is. June 3, 2025 Page 101 That's it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. First off, when I was reviewing this and this calculation of these needs based upon -- based upon traffic counts, it was a rather -- it was -- it went all over the place based upon the traffic management area expansion boundaries and so on and so forth. It was very difficult to follow. And I understand you do that just to keep us back on our heels so that you know everything and we're confused. MS. SCOTT: I wish I could forget some things, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And so is there a path to make it more discernible to regular people? MS. SCOTT: So what you're speaking about is we have certain areas within the county that are called a Transportation Concurrency Management Area. That -- that particular area was developed back in the early 2000s where we knew that we would have areas where the roadways would exceed the level of service, and we wouldn't be able to have a plan for them because they were already six lanes, there wasn't a parallel roadway opportunity, or there is a parallel roadway opportunity, but it was really decided to look at the area overall. So 90 percent of those roadway lane miles need to be at acceptable levels of service, and that is kind of confusing when someone looks at one specific roadway and they're saying, well, it's a Level of Service F. You shouldn't allow someone to build, et cetera. When in reality, in those particular areas, we look at that in the overall -- the overarching area, so that is a little bit more confusing to look June 3, 2025 Page 102 at. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and just reading the considerations that are part of this presentation, the level-of-service threshold volumes are calculated using arc plan and high plan software. Measures -- measured volume is based upon the 250th highest hour, which essentially equates to the 100th highest hour after committing February and -- after omitting February and March data consistent with the Growth Management Plan. COMMISSIONER HALL: What? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. It says it right there. MS. SCOTT: It does. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so my question is, is there a path to get to a point where a regular guy can understand what, in fact, is being analyzed here? Is there a path, and if there is, I'd like to know what that is going forward. MS. SCOTT: We can look at a path. Essentially, I'm going to -- I'm going to get it down to laymen's terms. What we are looking at is we want to look at the peak-hour directions in the afternoon, and we want to look at them -- and that -- by the way, when you get to that 250th highest hour or the 100th highest hour, that's what gets us to that p.m. peak hour time frame. And we want to pull out the seasonal fluctuation because we don't want to build our roads for Easter Sunday. I've got to give Norman Feder the credit for that. But we want to build our roads for what is our typical day, not the influx of folks in January. So there are some factoring that we have to do with June 3, 2025 Page 103 those traffic counts to be able to get to that 250th highest hour to get me to that p.m. peak hour and then also to factor out those seasonal irregularities for us. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you've explained that to me, and that's where -- you know, you were quite adept. I think way before I became a commish, that you shared with me we can't build our roads to a Level of Service A because there's no cost effectiveness to that. It just -- it's astronomical to go to that level. And -- but softening up this so that a regular guy can understand it will really, really help as we're going forward, especially when you're expressing needs for expansion and how you're going to go where you're going to go. And I think utilizing not just a population estimate and a trip count, but also -- you know, our CIGM, the Collier Interactive Growth Model, has a very nice component within it that talks about dispersal of populations and where they're at so then we can -- we, the Board, can better prioritize where money needs to be moved and spent in order to accommodate the necessary traffic flow. Mr. Bosi can sit there and talk all he wants about us moving away from a bedroom community, but we are a bedroom community for the foreseeable future, and we have to accommodate for that, so -- and that's more of just a statement than anything. MS. SCOTT: If I could talk a little bit about the County Interactive Growth Model, because it's also the basis of the long-range plan. So you, as Board members, are now going through that with the Metropolitan Planning Organization process. That's the basis of that model. The Annual Update and Inventory Report that you're June 3, 2025 Page 104 talking about today really feeds that model as far as when you're looking at your long-range plan what needs to be done sooner rather than later. So it's really this cyclical process of the long-range plan feeds your AUIR, but your AUIR really feeds the timing of that as well. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and in that regard, when I was looking at the other things that were within this report with regard to expansion of roadways that are existent today, maybe we need to start addressing some of those theoretical prioritizations based upon the population dispersals that we, in fact, have. And I don't want to -- we don't need to mention anything specifically here, but I saw -- I saw where there were actual traffic reductions in a certain area and weren't necessarily -- didn't necessarily correlate to your future expansion or the needs analysis that I was seeing in here. My last question, and then one statement. I know -- I know the Chairman wants to go to lunch, so... CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, in reference to that, I'm not sure that we're going to break for lunch. How much longer do you think this -- the presentations will take? MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I don't think it's going to take much longer, and certainly, if you have areas of focus that you want us to come back after the court reporter break, we'll go straight to those. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we finish with Commissioner McDaniel's comments, Commissioner Hall, and then we'll take a break. COMMISSIONER HALL: Just a quick question. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And two quick points. And you mentioned earlier the management of June 3, 2025 Page 105 impact fees and the districts associated. Those districts aren't correlated to specific County Commission districts. They are specified geographic bounds. How can we help you better manage those monies to the benefit of everyone with regard to the necessary expansion of roadways? I know it's been done in the past. I know the money has been moved from one place to another. Do we need to make definition adjustments with regard to our roadway system so that there is a little more latitude with -- with monies that are collected in one particular area and expensed in another? MS. SCOTT: I see our County Manager leaning forward. I'm going to throw this one to her. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MS. PATTERSON: So there's -- there are provisions that apply to the use of dollars in adjacent districts. So districts that touch each other where a road benefits both, there has to be a finding of benefit. So that's the simpler way. The second way that the impact fees can be used across district is in regional roads, so something like 951 that runs through multiple impact fee districts and essentially benefits everybody. Impact fees can be with -- also have to have a finding of benefit, but impact fees can be used on a road like that. There's currently no mechanism and probably no lawful way to say, take impact fees that are generated in East Naples or Marco Island and put them in Immokalee, because it breaks the nexus of benefit to the fee payer. The only other thing I could suggest and we can look at is that the district boundaries haven't been studied in a very June 3, 2025 Page 106 long time. It might be beneficial to look at them. We have two impact fee districts that actually there are not impact fees collected. One of those is way to the east where there's actually quite a bit of growth happening; Port of the Islands, places like that. And so it may be beneficial to look at whether or not having eight impact fee districts is the appropriate number and whether or not those district boundaries are -- where they should be. So that would be a way to get at that more flexibility, getting like with like. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But the adjustment of the regional road system, I mean, you know, Everglades Boulevard starts in Immokalee and goes clear into the Picayune. And so Vanderbilt Beach Road starts at the beach and goes to -- ultimately, it goes to Everglades Boulevard. MS. PATTERSON: Vanderbilt Beach Road is a regional road. We can revisit -- as roads come onto the list for being widened or extended, we can review them and add them as regional roads if they meet the criteria. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Outstanding. Last point, we're a lot better now at ascertaining our ongoing maintenances and expenses that are associated with our new assets. We talked about this with our aquatic centers, the newest one being the Big Corkscrew Regional Park, and so on and so forth, in the rating system. Let's do that immediately with the TIGER grant program and begin the assertation and allow for the -- because that's a regional -- Immokalee already has an MSTU. They already have a CRA. I know Christie Betancourt's going to be turning a flip when I say this, but let's start to appropriate, from a budgetary standpoint, the ongoing maintenance associated with these new sidewalks June 3, 2025 Page 107 and swales and streetlights and so ons and so forth to make sure that we're properly accounting for and not burdening the balance of the community, county, with regard to the maintenance aspect of those things. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. Can you go back a couple of screens so I can use your younger eyes. Right there. Is that -- when is that Livingston Road repaving going to happen? MS. SCOTT: Oh, you know, I didn't bring my readers up here. Hold on. Let me look. COMMISSIONER HALL: I think the majority -- MS. SCOTT: FY '27. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- of it's going to be '27. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: '27/'28. MS. SCOTT: Yep. FY '27 in the northern part, FY '28 in the yellow part, FY '29 for the green, and FY '30 for the purple. COMMISSIONER HALL: Right. I just -- so it's FY '27 and '28 north of Pine Ridge for my District 2 peoples. MS. SCOTT: For the record, Mr. DeLony worked for me today; brought my readers. COMMISSIONER HALL: Oh, thank you. MS. SCOTT: Thank you. COMMISSIONER HALL: So '27 and '28. Good, because that road needs it. And then go back a couple of more to where all of the projects are, the map. I think you said we have 16 projects. Yeah, that one there. So there's one, two, three, four, five, basically six in North -- in Northwest Collier. Is that the Goodlette and the Airport widening there in the middle? June 3, 2025 Page 108 MS. SCOTT: We have Goodlette, Airport, Vanderbilt, as well as Veterans Memorial in your specific commission district as well as the Immokalee/Livingston Road. The yellow part of this map is actually your commission district. COMMISSIONER HALL: Right. And then the one down there in the right bottom corner, that would be the Pine Ridge diverging diamond? MS. SCOTT: Correct, and the -- also the Pine Ridge at Livingston improvement that is associated with the diverging diamond. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Ms. Patterson, in terms of concluding the workshop, about how much time do you think we're going to need? MS. PATTERSON: Fifteen, 20 minutes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Why don't we take a break until -- let's give the reporter a break until 12:30, then we'll com e back and wrap up. Unless you want to take a long lunch break, let's do that. Let's take a break until 12:30, and then we'll wrap it up. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. (A brief recess was had from 12:12 p.m. to 12:30 p.m.) MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's proceed. MS. PATTERSON: All right. So we're going to just kind of go through these quickly. So next up we'll talk briefly about library. I'm going to try to do them from here. And if you have questions, we have people in the back. So libraries is a level of service -- they've actually had the benefit of having a surplus in square footage for quite some time. We did a big campaign of building libraries June 3, 2025 Page 109 back in the mid 2000s. But over time, they've been eating away at that surplus, and in the next five or six years, we'll be reaching the place where we need to contemplate -- even sooner than that contemplate what our next -- where our next library will be located. So -- but the good-news message on libraries is that we're looking at, as we move to the east, which is the likely location for the next library facility, on how we may be able to collocate. So we've had a lot of discussions about community space and the benefits of bringing various components of infrastructure together. So for the purposes of libraries, our next move will look like how we could collocate a community center with a library or some other government function so that we get the benefit of the space but also that benefit of collocation. So unless you have other questions about libraries, this is one we'll be discussing in more detail as we move into the planning phases for libraries. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, you're lit up, but I assume that's from the last one. COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm not. That was prior to this. MS. PATTERSON: Okay. We also -- I'll mention before we move off of libraries, we're also looking at some sharing of space between our museums and our libraries. We feel like that that would really attract visitors to these locations in a different way and to the benefit of the community to be able to see exhibits and different things and some of the space that we have available in our library system. All right. So, Troy, let's go to government buildings. June 3, 2025 Page 110 It's, like, the third from the bottom. The level of service for government buildings is currently 1.7 square feet per capita; however, we'll be evaluating this square footage as part of the facilities master planning effort. This level of service has changed a couple of times in the past and was originally established based on the government buildings impact fee study that established the government buildings impact fee back in 2005 or -- yeah, 2005. So -- need to look at that, but as Mr. Dunnuck had described, we're also getting our arms around our space who is where and what we actually have in this five million square feet of space. So government buildings will be one that we'll be focusing on. This also is a focus area for ongoing maintenance -- you saw the presentation last Tuesday -- to look at how we're maintaining these buildings and how we may look at what we do in the future. That would include things like this campus. Unique to government buildings is our requirement to house the constitutional officers, so that will be part of what we look at here. So that's essentially the summary of government buildings. If you have questions about that level of service, this is one, again, that we'll be working on over the upcoming years as part of the master planning efforts, and we'll evaluate the appropriateness of this level of service as part of that effort. Okay. Very good. Let's -- oh, wow. You got it, EMS. All right. We do have our folks in the back from EMS if they -- if you have specific questions for them. We've already had a discussion about our thought process on this. June 3, 2025 Page 111 So this one unit per 16,400 population, very old level of service. We are showing in this five years the need for additional units. That's something that you-all know. This has been one of the lingering deficiencies as part of the AUIR; however, we have Station 74, which is currently under construction. We have an agreement with North Collier to collocate up on old -- near Old 41. We have an agreement with Greater Naples to collocate down on the East Trail, so we're moving along there. We also are getting to the place now where we're staffed enough to be able to bring units up. So that's a positive message for the first time in several years relative to EMS and our ability to put these units up. If you can go to the next one. We'll be evaluating, as I discussed, that response time because of this artificial line between the -- it's essentially 951, which is the divide between the urban and the rural response times. We know that does not represent the true boundaries now of what is the urban area. And you can -- go back one slide, Troy. This just represents, you can see, the increase in call volumes. So this is something we'll contemplate as we start to evaluate where we put units up. So you can see year to date we're more than 37,000 medical calls for EMS. Next slide. Zone 72, this is an area that we're paying really careful attention to. This is down along 951 sort of near Beck Boulevard in that area. We know that this is -- there's a need here. These ambulances in this area and surrounding area are being called in from all different areas, putting strain when we have to move the ambulances June 3, 2025 Page 112 around. So we have been discussing the possibility of placing a unit at a fire station down in this area that does not currently have an ambulance. Now, what challenges us for this is that these stations were built years ago, and they are not -- they don't have a lot of extra space. So while we may have the ambulance and the people to do it, we have to figure out how we would actually be able to house that ambulance and those folks. So these are ongoing conversations with our partners in the fire districts. Next slide, Troy. Next slide. I know it looked like a rain map, but it's actually a heat map to show the calls. This chart -- and we bring this to your attention simply because calls for service on I-75 for 2024, they have a lot of calls for service. We will be coming to you probably at some point to discuss the possibility of placing a medic unit at Station 63. Station 63 is the station that was built by the State of Florida on Alligator Alley that helps respond up and down Alligator Alley to medical emergencies, fires, vehicle accidents. It has traditionally housed an engine, and we do have medics that respond out with that engine, on the engine, but it appears that -- best for public safety that we may want to consider placing an ambulance at Station 63. Probably to all of you that seems intuitive that you would want an ambulance the closest to where you have the most critical accidents. Right now what happens is they respond out and an ambulance is dispatched, but they may be coming from 45 minutes away. So that is something that we are very interested in and will be pursuing with Greater Naples. June 3, 2025 Page 113 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you. On Station 67 [sic], have we gotten the long-term financing operational expenses taken care of with the state? Because I know it's been back and forth, and there was a two-year agreement and then a five-year agreement. Has that been sorted out yet? MS. PATTERSON: My understanding is that that is still in works. That we got a -- we had a short-term solution, but we're still working on the longer-term solution. That's Greater Naples that actually is in the partnership with the State of Florida. But I have to think that -- obviously, we don't -- that service can't go away. And, in fact, we need enhanced service in that location. So we'll assist Greater Naples, should they need our assistance, but we will be working with them to work out how we may be able to provide a medical -- a medical unit there. Now, if Greater Naples elects to move forward with transport, which is not on the table immediately, then there would be the possibility to pull that unit back out of Station 63 and allow the transport to be done by Greater Naples. So all those details could be worked out in the form of an agreement or an MO between the county and Greater Naples to outline the responsibilities. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good. And you blew through three or four slides before I -- before the chairman noticed that I was lit up. I had a question -- MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- two slides back. Right in there, I think. Maybe this is ant -- it has to do with the -- and maybe it's the heat map associated. You were June 3, 2025 Page 114 talking about calls down in the 951 corridor. In that area, there are several ALF, assisted living facilities, there. Has there ever been any kind of discussion about a requisite of a nursing home or assisted living facility to have their own transport unit that stays there to predominantly service their clientele? MS. PATTERSON: I will look to the back of the room to see if any of my EMS folks know anything about that. I know that there have been conversations with the nursing homes about calls and lift assists with the fire districts, but as far as them having a required transport, not to my knowledge. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, you know, there's an aggregation of people of age who are more requisite for medical transport, and then -- in other areas of our community, and it was just -- it was a thought that I had that might -- may be something we ought to look into. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. And I think as we get our feet under us and our staffing levels improve, we do want to continue to look at how we're using our ALS transport units versus what you may call BLS. So not that they don't need to be transported, but are we -- you know, how we're using our resources. And this would be another conversation with the fire districts about what that transport looks like, because someone might need to go to the hospital, but they're not having a heart attack. Now, they need to go, but they don't need to go with, you know, two paramedics and lights and sirens. So looking at that and having those conversations certainly is appropriate, as well as some of the protocols being utilized by these assisted living facilities and nursing June 3, 2025 Page 115 homes and how they're using the 911 system is an area that we could definitely have some improvement. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. I was a little surprised that 72 Beck Boulevard didn't have an EMS unit there -- MS. PATTERSON: No. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- all these years -- MS. PATTERSON: I know. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- being so adjacent to I-75 and the response time we have out there. MS. PATTERSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I'm not sure 62, how that fits in, but wouldn't that -- by having a unit at 72, it would probably alleviate some of that, you know, distance covered on I-75 for response time. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So 72 could run the Alley instead of having to put a unit at 63. Probably ideally, with the density of development in that area up and down 951, having both would be the long-term goal. But getting relief any way that we can in this area, even if it means that we get a temporary accommodation at 72 from Greater Naples -- because they're growing too -- until we figure out what a permanent solution would be. But this is an area of high focus right now. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you. MS. PATTERSON: You're welcome. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Back to the ambulance at 63, like you said, you know, we're going to June 3, 2025 Page 116 pursue that. And if we failed, you know, like you said, an ambulance might take 45 minutes to get there. So what's the long pole in the tent? It would seem like that would be an obvious thing. And is it that we don't have the resources? We don't have the -- you know, we have one ambulance, and it's needed in five different locations? Like you said, that's a high accident concentration. It would seem like that would be, you know, one of our top priorities. And I realize, you know, we don't have a magic wand or pixie dust or anything, but, you know, when I hear, like, "Oh, you know" -- I'm not being sarcastic to your words. But when, you know, the thought is, "Yeah, we're going to try to pursue that," it would seem like, wow, we should be pursuing it with our hair on fire because, I mean, there's some -- when there is some sort of an accident out there, it is so tragic. And, you know, what a -- you know, what a tragic ending if we hear, "Well, you know, the ambulance got there as fast as they can, but it was driving through 5 o'clock traffic, and it was coming from 45 minutes away, and it took an hour and 20 minutes to get there." I mean, that station just seems like it's in such a strategic spot that, you know, as a minimum, having an ambulance there to be able to respond. Is there something that we're missing, or it's just a matter of assets, need, you know, that sort of thing? I mean, because I will tell you -- and this might be going down a rabbit hole -- the same citizens that are listening to this and we're trying to figure out how we're going to, you know, play poker with a handful of ambulances and, you know, hopefully, one won't have to come from 45 minutes away, they just heard at our June 3, 2025 Page 117 meeting -- the last commissioner meeting how we want to raise tourist tax 1 percent so we can build more ball fields. It's apples and chairs in reality, but to the average citizen who doesn't follow this stuff as closely as we do, that's what you find in the newspaper and on social media and on emails back to us. Wow, they can't figure out how to get ambulances, but boy, they'll build those softball fields. And that's so unfair because it's -- like I said, it's different pots of money, but the reality is -- you know, getting back to this ambulance, I hope it's not lost on anyone what a critical need that is on a stretch of highway that, you know, when they have an accident, it's not a small fender-bender. It's bad. MS. PATTERSON: I'm glad you said that. When I said we were going to try, I was being polite. It's my intention that we're going to have an ambulance at 63 -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Great. MS. PATTERSON: -- but it's all about managing the relationships. So we'll pursue this. I wanted to have this on your radar so you understand that this is -- in case you hear from various places what's going on, our intention is to put an ambulance at 63. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. MS. PATTERSON: We'll pursue that with full speed. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am. MS. PATTERSON: You're welcome. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Hair on fire. MS. PATTERSON: All right. If there's no further questions on EMS, I saw the Sheriff come in. COMMISSIONER HALL: I said, "I've had my hair on fire." I don't recommend it. June 3, 2025 Page 118 COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Too soon? MS. PATTERSON: We're going to -- so as the Sheriff gets their PowerPoint up, I just wanted to let you know we -- I'm not going to bring Public Utilities up today. Their intention was to just give an update on NESA, which is the northeast expansion. We can do that as part of another agenda item. So the Sheriff will be the last and most exciting AUIR topic that we cover, especially because this level of service is so weird, but we'll talk about that a little bit. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Just the guy presenting. MR. WILLIAMS: That's it. Good afternoon, Chairman. For the record, Sean Williams, Central Service director for the Collier County Sheriff's Office. We have two areas for you. I'm not sure they're going to be as exciting as the County Manager explained, but we'll give it a go. First will be jail and corrections facilities. We currently have two of those, the Naples Jail Center and the Immokalee Jail Center. Our current level of service is 2.79 beds per thousand population. Based on that level of service, we have 1,304 beds today. Based on the required inventory in the AUIR, there's 1,473 beds required in the AUIR. Our population, as we reported, is -- averaged 758 for the fiscal year of '23, and that's still consistent with what we're seeing today. What we are seeing a change, though, is instead of higher numbers of inmates, we are seeing the needs change of the type of inmates we have, which are mental health and medical needs within the jail facilities. June 3, 2025 Page 119 The AUIR is projecting a growth need out in the Immokalee Jail Center in 2030/2031 to increase the capacity of beds; that's what we talked on in the first slide. But as I mentioned, our needs are changing. Substance abuse and mental health needs for the inmates are growing, so our narrative in the AUIR talks about the needs to renovate part of the Naples Jail Center to cover that need, and we've discussed that with staff, and that's been part of our AUIR submission for several years now. On the five-year capital projections, nothing new in the five years other than what we talked about. Level of -- existing level of service accounts for about a negative, am I correct, $14 million. Ten year, you're going to have a negative, about $5.9 million. And then, again, the maintenance costs. I think that's to be determined by Mr. DeLony's group. MS. PATTERSON: Before we move on from this, just so that no one feels very concerned about the deficiency that's projected in the AUIR, some of the facilities that we develop as part of the AUIR, you will find that for a period of time we'll run a deficiency, because you don't build a jail for 10 or even 100 beds at a time. So there will be a period of time while we evaluate any expansion or where these beds might go where you're going to see us run this deficiency for a little while because then you'll bring on beds -- and we won't bring on exactly what we need, but you bring on beds in advance of the need. So the second piece of this is the 2.79 beds per thousand population, again, as an older level of service. So with the help of the Sheriff and as we move through some of these master plans, we'll evaluate that level of service and June 3, 2025 Page 120 make sure that it's accommodating the need, or if we need to further define that level of service because of the changing nature of the inmate population, we can make some of those adjustments as we can look at that and we look to expand and -- or renovate. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. Hi, Sean. MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, in the public safety meetings, subcommittee meetings, I've had an opportunity -- Chief Roberts, we sat down, and we've talked a lot about -- and I see you kind of touched the -- especially the females' mental health. MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: How we kind of have a makeshift one in there right now. MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's basically taking a unit, and we kind of make-shifted it and welded safety things in place for their care and custody. MR. WILLIAMS: Correct. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I think renovating a portion of the jail that we can make designated to that particular service, and that would free that -- that unit back up for general population at some point. I mean, if we can do that or get some funding way to get to that point, then that would -- you know, artificially, it would increase a little bit of general -- general bed space, and then they would have a designated unit that was actually safe for them to be in. MR. WILLIAMS: That is correct. And that's our June 3, 2025 Page 121 desire. That's why I referred to it as a mental health and medical piece. That's -- we're hoping to accomplish both. So mental health folks that have to stay in our care and can't go outside as well as those females that are -- need to be housed in a little bit better facility within the -- within the Naples Jail Center. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just wanted my colleagues to hear that, you know, these are some of the things we've been talking about -- MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- that -- I think that will help. You know, it's not going to fix it, but at least it will move in the right direction if we -- MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Sean. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And one of you -- either you, Sean, or County Manager, can maybe -- because -- explain to me the level-of-service component of this presentation. Because I've had continuing conversations with our Sheriff with regard to our overall jail population where we're at with capacities and so on. And I -- and I just want to -- I would like to have somebody repeat when was the last time we touched the level-of-service requisite for the 2.79 per population, or whatever that is. MS. PATTERSON: There may have been minor adjustments over the years. There was a period of time in the mid 2000s when a lot of these level of services got married up with the impact fee levels of service which turned out to be an inappropriate thing to do simply because June 3, 2025 Page 122 the methodology used to develop the impact fee does create some shifting of the level of service. An adopted level of service for the AUIR purposes and for planning purposes is a fixed level of service, so -- and it's supposed to represent what is -- what this board determines is in the best interest of the community. So it's not something that gets adjusted every single year; otherwise, it takes away the meaning of a level of service. However, the original establishment of this level of service probably goes -- probably back in time all the way maybe to the early 2000s or late '90s. We have attempted to look at it and get our arms around it, but I think that is something that we need to do now again in the changing face of this inmate population. There are not a lot of choices on how you would dedicate a level of service for a planning purpose other than tying it to population. It's a question, really, of the appropriateness of the 2.79 beds per thousand population, and where that came from, it may have been established simply based on what we had at the time, and then it just became a level of service that rolled forward from there. The only cautionary tale, of course, is that we have utilized this level of service in part to collect money, impact fees, predicated on a level of service. So drastic changes to levels of service just -- we would proceed with caution because we wouldn't want the community to have relied on us providing one thing and then we turn around and provide another. So there has to be -- in order to reduce the levels of service or make changes, there has to be a certain amount of rationale that goes into it. And so that's something that, you know, we've June 3, 2025 Page 123 discussed and should embark upon as part of our overall master planning to be sure that we understand what that looks like on a going-forward basis. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I agree. And I think the definition of a population can help with that. We've seen a shift. I remember when I first became a commissioner, our Sheriff gave me a ride. I was over in Immokalee at a parade, and he gave me a ride from one end of town to the other. And he said out loud -- he said, "Our largest mental institution in Collier County is our jail," and close to 30 percent of the population suffer from some form of mental illness or substance abuse. MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So -- and that was the beginning of -- I say "the beginning," but that was when there was a larger emphasis put on training for our officers to better recognize mental issues, substance abuse, and that sort of thing at apprehension. And so we have shifted a lot of those -- I said "shifted" -- diverted a lot of those customers, if you will, over to David Lawrence Center and other facilities to better -- hopefully better manage their care. So I think it's important that we have a look at that with our adjustment, because you're showing deficits of beds/jail space based upon a population that's inevitably going to grow, and that may be -- that may be a nexus or a rationale for us to adjust that LOS to be able to better accommodate our population. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. WILLIAMS: Law enforcement facilities, we have 13 identified in the AUIR. The level of service is just over June 3, 2025 Page 124 .9 per capita. We've identified five within the AUIR that we feel are currently in need of today. The five-year plan includes the forensics facility, which is currently under construction, funded out of surtax. Next is District 1 is -- shown in the AUIR is in 2028/2029, and then your District 5 facility would be shown in '29 and '30. District 1 would be North Naples; District 5 would be that corridor of 951 and 41. Again, all of those that are identified are the forensics facility, District 1; a training facilities District 5 substation; and then an Estates substation, or an additional one out there for the growth that's going to take place out there in the future. I covered the forensic facility's being funded now under surtax. The District 1 is within that five-year. Revenue needed to maintain the level of service is 4.3 million, it looks like. Ten year capital projects, District 5 is in that 10-year plan. Estimated cost about 2.1 million. Additional facilities: Mental health, training, Estates. Still don't have costs for those yet because we haven't really done a deep dive into those yet, and the maintenance costs for those are to be determined. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. I have one more slide if there's no questions so far. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll let you know if anybody lights up here. MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. In 2019, we commissioned Metro Forecasting. This is going a little bit beyond the AUIR, but I thought it was relevant because it pertains to our facilities. We commissioned Metro to do a full-scale June 3, 2025 Page 125 study for our agency, not only facilities, but everything else. In 2024, we brought them back to focus just on facilities, and his plan identifies about $65 million for facilities that are identified in the plan at the end of 2024, including the ones I mentioned today and a couple of others, and that's just for construction, not land surveying or any -- some of the other features, but that touches on many of the facilities that we need. So I just wanted to mention that we have done some form of planning with a professional out there. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. WILLIAMS: And we provided that to the staff as well. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any questions or comments from the Board? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, thank you. MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you. MS. PATTERSON: Board members, I did say that this would be the last facility, but I forgot our friends from Parks. So if you'd like, they have a couple of short slides, and that will -- that will be really the last facility to come up. I think it's an important one, with everything that we're dealing with with Parks and Recreation, that we just take you through their level of service. This is one that's often misunderstood. And we'll provide some clarity on that and talk a little bit about maintenance. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. HANRAHAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. James Hanrahan, interim division director for Parks and Recreation. I have my department head, Jamie, and one of our June 3, 2025 Page 126 division directors, Jaime, as well to help, as well as Mike Bosi. For the level of service, Mike mentioned it earlier, for community parks, 1.2 acres per 1,000, and that focuses on neighborhood recreation, local sports green spaces. That supports that sense of local community and local activities. For the regional parks, 2.7 acres per 1,000 population. That is more of that broader recreational opportunities, local sports tournaments, as well as cultural attractions. So that serves a wider population. That's where you're looking at not only your local residents but people from outside of the area coming in to view our parks, whether it's the beaches, the marinas, or our regional parks like Paradise Coast Sports Complex, North Collier, and Big Corkscrew. For the community park acreage, we will have a deficit approaching in the fiscal year of '26/'27. We are going to work with the County Manager's Office to explore strategic options for addressing that challenge. Some of the options we have that we're looking into, the -- you all approved the purchase of the Williams property. So, you know, up to 200 acres could be intended for parks. We will look at that and assess how that will look for parks. Also, with the Rural Lands Stewardship Area and the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District, we have coordinated and worked with them where parks is a part of their plan. So as they -- like, Big Town of Cypress, as they continue to move forward with their development, we will have conversations with them as far as how it looks for potential parks, whether we own them, whether they own them and build them, but we'll work together to discuss the needs of the community as well as the needs of those June 3, 2025 Page 127 townships. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Quick. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, just a quick question. Back up a slide, if you would, please. There. When you're talking about these deficits, you're talking -- and then you say in the next slide that you're negotiating with regard to the RLSA and the RFMUD. There are requisites of open space, green space, park facilities to be within these new rural villages and ultimate towns, and that's not accommodated in these -- in these acreages, or are you only talking about the acreages that are county-owned? MR. HANRAHAN: Correct, correct. MS. PATTERSON: County-owned. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Say that again. MS. PATTERSON: It's only county-owned. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only county-owned. MS. PATTERSON: However, similar to Ave Maria, they approach their park system one way -- which they fully built their park system and manage it. Some of these other towns and villages have expressed an interest in partnering with the county where they may dedicate the land to us. They may build the amenity but ultimately turn it over to the county to run. So there's a lot of different options in the way that we can do this, but it only is dealing with what will be county assets, not counting the green space that they're required to have or anything that's a requirement of their development. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So this purported deficit doesn't include park systems that are within these June 3, 2025 Page 128 new rural towns and villages, necessarily? MS. PATTERSON: Correct. So Ave Maria's parks are not included in that -- in that -- in that acreage count. Any private parks are not included in the community park acreage. The parks in the City of Naples and the City of Marco Island are not included because this is an unincorporated county fee only. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MR. FRENCH: And only to offer some further clarification, again, for the record, I'm Jamie French, the other Jamie, your department head for Growth Management and Community Development. This number would be in flex. So we won't know until they come in with plat and plan and further development order to identify how they're going to designate lands to meet that commitment that they've made to this board for providing parks for that area. So that number may, in fact, change. And so as James had indicated, as we've looked at new properties that you have purchased, we recognize the Williams property has a -- has an intention for parks use. We just don't know if that would fit into your community profile or a regional profile, being based on population, location to other parks. But we are fully aware of that and will continue to plan that going forward. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Would it not be prudent for us to be accounting for specified park requisites within these new rural towns and villages, whether they're in the RLSA or the RFMUD? I know we really can't account for them in the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District because we haven't had -- we June 3, 2025 Page 129 haven't had a village come through yet, necessarily, to -- that would -- that would specify that, so -- but we have several rural villages in the RLSA and a new town. MR. FRENCH: We could -- in future AUIR presentations, yes, sir, we could put on there what the commitment has been made by these development organizations or landowners on what that obligation might look like for better planning in the future for your long-range planning of parks. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think it would be prudent because, I mean -- you know, my involvement in the RLSA since its infancy stages has accommodated for -- for specific issues such as recreational facilities that are availed to the entire community, not just the development. So I think it would be prudent for us to not be simplifying a statement of we're not including anything else that's outside the realm of our own, and then staring at a deficit that's coming up here in '27. MS. PATTERSON: We had a similar -- where's Mr. Bosi? MR. BOSI: Right here. MS. PATTERSON: We did a similar exercise to this with the Planning Commission and the Productivity Committee back a long time ago about the acknowledgement of other recreational opportunities, so state and federal parks and other amenities that are provided within gated communities as an acknowledgment of balancing the availability of parks. So again, there are certain reasons why they can and can't be counted as a level of service, but they can definitely be identified and noted for the Board's visibility and June 3, 2025 Page 130 understanding of how they play into the overall park system. So kind of different purposes but can get you to the same place. MR. FRENCH: And -- I'm sorry, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. I'm looking at this slide we have up right now, and this is kind of like taking an overall, like, just our population in the county from the census count or whatever we think it is, and you're putting a number, just a basic number on saying it required acreages. But like yourself, you're talking about 200 acres way, way northeast somewhere in Immokalee that I would have a hard time calling that a regional park. That would be a community park. And at 200 acres, that means Immokalee would have to have a population of 166,000 people. So that kind of like -- how do you break it down to say, all right, how much of a park do we actually need in Immokalee as a community park? How many acres do we need for that particular segment of the county? Because I know nobody from my district's going to ride to Immokalee to use the park. So you're -- but you're including that in just a flat number here as population. So how do you, you know, figure out exactly what would be the footprint for Immokalee? MS. PATTERSON: So, typically, you're absolutely right, a 200-acre park exceeds the size of most of our community parks, lending itself in size as a regional park; however, what also draws a regional park is the -- is the -- location and the ability to draw large populations or amenities. June 3, 2025 Page 131 So each of those is evaluated to determine whether or not it meets sort of the criteria to be a regional park, and to your point, the location of this one is something that would be considered in the evaluation of whether it would truly be regional. However, we also sometimes have these hybrid parks where you may have community factors and regional, so it may mean that we hold some of this land off to be -- have some regional components in the future if there were tournament type ball fields developed where people may travel there, but the bulk -- you know, another -- half the property would be developed as a community park. And so it's location, then it's the -- we have maps that show kind of the radius that people travel for community parks versus regional parks. So all of those things would be considered when we ultimately decide where this acreage lands and what amenities will be developed on that -- on that acreage. So for example, beaches, they're only one place, and they're all regional, many of our beach park facilities, and we've got a couple of other different ones. Sugden is a regional park because the water feature is the draw, and it's a regional draw. It occurs only there. Then our facilities that have the draw is their tournament-quality fields like the North Collier Regional Park. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But that location itself, if you're pinpointing on a map to say, all right, this is what we feel the region is, and we take a circle, you're servicing part of Lee County. I mean, you know -- MS. PATTERSON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- in reality, because it's June 3, 2025 Page 132 not going to come down to just dropping a teardrop into Collier. You would take a map and say, hey, this is -- you can't have a region divided by that border -- MS. PATTERSON: Right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- but it would almost be servicing people in Lee County with taxpayer money in Collier County. MS. PATTERSON: Right. Proximity-wise, it would be developed as a community park, and it would likely way reduce the acreage dedicated. How it would become a regional park would be if there was a regional -- again, a regional amenity draw. So if there were tournament fields, things like that, so people are specifically traveling to the destination for the destination, and that's kind of the thing that we're going to have to go through when we look to develop this property. I think the test for the community park is pretty easy, but not 200 acres worth. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you. MR. FRENCH: And to the County Manager's point, Commissioner Kowal, we do actually have qualifications both for -- much like we looked at with the Hunden study where they looked at the 25-mile range. It's a minimum of 10-mile reach on these type of parks that are considered these regional attractor type parks. And we recognize -- and also to your point, we also recognize the impact that North Collier Regional Park makes on our Lee County neighbors that utilize that park often with the -- with how -- the ease of travel along Livingston Road. So certainly these are all within our calculations, but really to emphasize this, we did not consider anything that June 3, 2025 Page 133 was not currently in your ownership. So these properties that are brought in through the RLSA or through the RFMUD, until those actually come into your ownership, we did not consider that within these numbers. So that's why I'm saying that number is kind of in flux. Once those come on, we know -- and that will -- that will be addressed in your regional parks plan that you'll see in the upcoming future. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Anything else from your end? MS. PATTERSON: If you could just -- the last thing, if you could just advance to the slide, you have the one that shows your -- whoop, back one maybe. There you go. The areas of continued need countywide are additional designated sports fields, as we've discussed, for community league and amateur organizations. So I just want to make sure that we're articulating that need that we have intense play on our fields throughout the county, and we continue to look at ways to expand the ability for people to get onto sports fields. We're having an issue now because we're having to rest our grass fields, so these are all things that we're taking into consideration as we plan out the completion of parks like Big Corkscrew Island Regional Park or like the Paradise Coast Sports Complex as well as the development of future parks. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Troy, anybody registered to speak? MR. MILLER: Yeah. We do have one registered speaker, Nick Lichter. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good afternoon. MR. LICHTER: Good afternoon. You caught me by June 3, 2025 Page 134 surprise. Chairman Saunders, my name's Nick Lichter. I'm a Collier County resident for 41 years this summer. And when I saw today's workshop agenda, I made a commitment to come and speak just to share another 249 seconds. I haven't addressed the body in a -- this body in quite a long time, but when I saw David Lawrence Center's name today and the central receiving facility, it reminds me of my experience with them. In the Naples Jail Center here, they have that project called Project Recovery for guys like me suffering from PTSD, depression, substance abuse disorders. And we talked about some statistics -- at least I heard them today, and I just want to reiterate them real quick that while we have 23 percent of adults in America suffering from some kind of mental illness, in the jail it's 40 to 60 percent. It's kind of a big range, but that's what's out there, and 15 to 20 percent of us -- I'll include myself in that group -- suffering from severe mental illnesses. I adjusted my number today. I thought it was 800. We have 758 inmates in the Naples Jail Center. So at least 300 and up to 500 of them are mentally ill individuals. Fortunately, we have DLC in our jail, and they're live-saving staff with Project Recovery, the 90-day treatment program in the jail, but they can only accommodate 30 men, and I think it's also 30 women, which obviously is less than 10 percent of the jail's population. But they're doing great work. They're helping inmates with mental disorders with recovery management plans, life skill plans, relapse prevention plans, educating them on trauma. I didn't even know I was suffering from PTSD until June 3, 2025 Page 135 I talked to one of the therapists about trauma. Uncovered a lot of stuff there about my challenges. I think that we can and should do more than 30 men and 30 women, and it sounds like we're trying to do that. Project Recovery saved my life, gave me hope, and it really opened my eyes and reconnected me to my higher power who's working powerfully in my life to heal me and to help restore relationships, not just with friends, but with my family and particularly my beautiful children, who I think most of you have seen and seen me with. So thank you for the opportunity to stand before you and to share a little bit about my story and my hope that we'll expand that program. I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask -- Nick. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nick? MR. LICHTER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can you come back, please. Would you just share a little bit more? I don't want to go long -- too awfully much longer, but if you would just talk about -- a little bit more about the project help and your thoughts with regard to it within our jail system. I made -- I made a comment earlier, I think before you arrived, that there was little to no rehabilitation that comes with incarceration, and that was probably an unfair statement, but I just would -- if you would, please, expand a little bit. MR. LICHTER: Right. So -- and I've done a fair amount of reading. You know, things like prebooking, what could we do to grab guys like me before we book them and June 3, 2025 Page 136 put them in jail and training officers to recognize guys with mental problems, and gals. But right away, in the first week, you get an idea of what you're going to be doing for the next 90 days. You know, the proponents of the world-renowned 12 steps, right. So you had to write a first step and look at the damage that you've done and how unmanageable your life has become, my life had become, because of decisions I had made and things that I had not known I needed treatment for, to be honest. So then sharing your life story, right. I had to just lay it all out there and talk about what it was like, you know, where I was, what happened, you know, and now I can talk a little bit about what it's like now. So -- and so there are three milestones: that first step, the life story, and then the recovery management plan and relapse prevention plan. And I still refer to that stuff, you know. It's guiding me and keeping me accountable. And I still -- I see people at David Lawrence Center regularly and a bunch of angels over there. So, you know, you're going through some political stuff here with who's going to be running some things. But for me, David Lawrence Center and the staff there are saving the guys' and gals' lives 30 at a time every 90 days. And it was nothing I've ever experienced before. And no person, no thing has ever been able to help me like they've besides my creator. So thank you. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. Good to see you up and about. MR. LICHTER: Roger. All right. See ya. June 3, 2025 Page 137 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Anything else? MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. Thank you. We appreciate you-all taking the time to look at these facilities and let us report out on where we are and what our plans are going ahead. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Anything else from any of the commissioners? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me just emphasize, on David Lawrence Center, obviously next Tuesday's going to be a controversial day in discussion. If you have specific issues, it would be helpful if we know what those are in advance so we can at least understand what the issues are and perhaps be prepared to discuss them. With that, we are adjourned. ******* June 3, 2025 Page 138 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 1:16 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ___________________________________ BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN ATTEST CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT & COMPTROLLER These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as presented ______________ or as corrected _____________. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC.