Agenda 06/24/2025 Item # 2A (BCC Minutes from May 27, 2025)May 27, 2025
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, May 27, 2025
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting
as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of
such special districts as have been created according to law and
having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Burt L. Saunders
Dan Kowal
Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
Page 10 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 2
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
May 27, 2025
9:00 AM
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3 – Chair
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4 – Vice Chair
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIR. ADDITIONAL
MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY OTHER
REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE
SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS. SPEAKERS
ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED
BY THE CHAIR. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A CONSENT ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL OF THE DAY’S
CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
Page 11 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 3
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION MUST
SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT
LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE REQUEST
SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE NATURE OF THE
PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE A MATTER ON A
FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A MATTER IN WHICH
THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A
SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIR. SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE
ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIR. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIR’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF
THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, SUITE
1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380.
Page 12 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 4
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation: Pastor Kirt Anderson - Naples Community Church, Pledge of
Allegiance: William Fuller with "We Served" monthly programs at Saint
John the Evangelist to connect with fellow veterans, share experiences, and
learn about VA rules and laws that affect compensation.
Invocation given; Pledge of Allegiance led
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's Regular, Consent, and Summary agenda as amended
(ex-parte disclosure provided by Commission members for Consent agenda.)
Motion to approve by Commissioner McDaniel; Seconded by
Commissioner Kowal - Approved and/or Adopted 5/0
B. May 13, 2025, BCC Minutes
Motion to approve by Commissioner Hall; Seconded by Commissioner
McDaniel - Approved 5/0
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
A) Santiago Ventura- Parks & Recreation
Presented
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
A) Lauren Beard - Development Review
Presented
B) Mona Vega - Library
Presented
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
Page 13 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 5
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
5) ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
6) RETIREES
7) EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Staff Presentation on Bear Resistant Containers
Presented by Kari Hodgson – Director of Solid Waste Division
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS - None
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item will be discussed at a future meeting, public comments will not
be heard until the official hearing. This item was previously continued
from the April 8, 2025, May 13, 2025, and May 27, 2025, BCC Meetings.
Recommendation to approve an ordinance of the Board of County
Commissioners amending ordinance 89-05, as amended, the Collier County
Growth Management Plan, specifically amending the Future Land Use
element to amend the NC Square Mixed-Use Overlay to decrease the
commercial uses from 44,400 square feet to 36,500 square feet of gross floor
area, remove the 12,000-square foot daycare use and increase the maximum
residential units from 129 to 205 with affordable housing in the NC Square
Planned Mixed-Use Development, and furthermore directing transmittal of
the adopted Amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce. The
subject property is 24.4± acres and is located at the southwest corner of
Immokalee Road and Catawba Street, approximately 1.6 miles west of
Wilson Boulevard in section 29, township 48 south, range 27 east, Collier
County, Florida. (PL20230017980 - NC Square Mixed-Use Overlay GMPA)
(Companion to Item #9B MPUD-PL20230017979)
Page 14 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 6
B. This item will be discussed at a future meeting, public comments will not
be heard until the official hearing. This item was previously continued
from the April 8, 2025, May 13, 2025, and May 27, 2025, BCC Meetings.
This item requires ex-parte disclosure be provided by the Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve an ordinance
amending Ordinance Number 2021-18, the NC Square Mixed-Use Planned
Unit Development, to decrease the commercial uses from 44,400 square feet
to 36,500 square feet of gross floor area, remove the 12,000-square foot
daycare use and increase the maximum residential units from 129 to 205
with affordable housing. The property is located at the southwest corner of
Immokalee Road and Catawba Street, approximately 1.6 miles west of
Wilson Boulevard in Section 29, Township 48 South, Range 27 East, Collier
County, Florida, consisting of 24.4± acres; and by providing an effective
date. [Coordinator: Timothy Finn, AICP, Planner III] [PL20230017979]
(Companion to Item #9A PUD-PL20230017980)
C. Recommendation to approve a Resolution proposing an amendment to the
Collier County Growth Management Plan, Ordinance 89-05, as amended,
specifically amending the Future Land Use Element and Future Land Use
Map and map series to change the land use designation from
Agricultural/Rural Designation, Rural Fringe Mixed Use District-Sending
Lands to Agricultural/Rural Designation, Agricultural/Rural Mixed Use
District, 341 Sabal Palm Road Residential Subdistrict to allow up to 423
owner-occupied dwelling units with affordable housing and providing for
transmittal of the amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce. The
subject property is ±169.19 acres and is located on the south side of Sabal
Palm Road, approximately 1.4 miles East of Collier Boulevard in Section
14, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida. (GMPA-
PL20230016340)
Resolution 2025-115: Motion to approve transmittal to the state and to
include an additional mile for notification by Commissioner Hall;
Seconded by Commissioner LoCastro - Adopted 5/0
D. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance amending the Animal Control
Ordinance by amending the definition of Hobby Breeder and permit
requirements and process.
Motion to continue to the July 8th BCC Meeting by Commissioner
Saunders; Seconded by Commissioner Kowal/Hall – Approved 5/0
Page 15 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 7
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. This item to be heard at 1:00 p.m. Recommendation that the Board discuss
whether it wishes to consider an amendment to the Tourist Development Tax
Ordinance No. 2017-53 to impose an additional one percent tax as a high
impact tourism destination for a total six percent tax, and to provide
direction to the County Attorney and Staff to start the process for the
amendment and required referendum.
Direction for the County Attorney to proceed with referendum language
and any questions from Board members are to be sent to the County
Manager – Consensus
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. This item to be heard at 9:30 a.m. Recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners review and consider for approval and execution: 1) a
Fourth Amendment to Vacant Land Contract with David Lawrence Mental
Health Center, Inc., to modify the Collier County Standard Form Long-Term
Lease and include an Operating Agreement exhibit governing Behavioral
Health Center operations; and 2) an Amendment to the Naming Rights
Agreement to clarify use of funds acquired with naming rights. (Ed Finn,
Deputy County Manager)
Motion to approve by Commissioner LoCastro; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders (Commissioner Saunders withdrew his second)
Motion failed due to lack of a second; Motion to Continue to the June
10th BCC Meeting by Commissioner LoCastro; Seconded by
Commissioner Kowal – Approved 5/0
B. Recommendation to review staff findings of the Board-directed on-site
evaluation of parking capacity for various multifamily developments within
Collier County, provide direction to staff regarding policy on parking
deviations and administrative parking reductions for multifamily projects,
and provide direction on adjusting the adopted parking standards through an
amendment to the Land Development Code. (Michael Bosi, Division
Director - Planning & Zoning)
Directing staff to drop the issue – Consensus
C. Recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners to consider and
provide direction regarding the Letter of Interest from the Collier County
Page 16 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 8
Agricultural & Fair Exposition Inc., to purchase a portion of the Camp Keais
Property to relocate the Collier County Fairgrounds. (Trinity Scott,
Department Head - Transportation Management Services Department)
Motion to approve by Commissioner McDaniel; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders – Approved 5/0
D. Recommendation to approve and execute an Agreement for Sale and
Purchase to purchase a 0.53-acre property currently zoned C-4 at a purchase
price of $1.25 million for the future EMS/Fire Station Expansion of Station
21 in East Naples. (John Dunnuck, Executive Director - Facilities &
Redevelopment)
Motion to approve by Commissioner LoCastro; Seconded by
Commissioner McDaniel/Kowal – Approved 5/0
E. Recommendation to accept a presentation on Facilities Management to
include proposed strategies relating to deferred maintenance, space
utilization, public safety, security, and master planning. (John Dunnuck,
Executive Director - Facilities & Redevelopment)
Presented and Discussed
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
1) Update on County Compliance with EOG DOGE
Resolution was transmitted with all requests for additional
documentation provided
Page 17 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 9
2) Update on County Hurricane Season Preparedness
Hurricane preparedness update will be presented at a June BCC
Meeting
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
1) Commissioner LoCastro – Thanks to County Manager for her
promise, focus, hard work and updates re: Fire Station 21
2) Commissioner Saunders – Request from Mr. Yovanovich to move
the NC Naples Items, tentatively set for the June 24th BCC
Meeting, to the July 8th BCC Meeting – Consensus; Thanks to the
Board for consideration on the TDT issue re: Paradise Coast Park
3) Commissioner Saunders - Adjourned
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. Consent Agenda - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Approved and/or Adopted – 5/0
A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT & COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
1) This item requires that Commission members provide ex-parte
disclosure. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants
are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve for
recording the minor plat of Goodland Shores, Application Number
PL20240013281.
Located in Section 18, Township 52 South, Range 27 East
2) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the sewer utility
facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the sewer facilities
for Citgo Gas Station #184 Improvements, PL20250001019.
Final inspection by staff found these facilities satisfactory and
acceptable on March 14, 2025
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Seven
Page 18 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 10
Shores Phase 2A and 2C, PL20240007049.
Final inspection by staff found these facilities satisfactory and
acceptable on February 21, 2025
4) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Seven
Shores Phase 2B, PL20240011319.
Final inspection by staff found these facilities satisfactory and
acceptable on February 25, 2025
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Seven
Shores Phase 1F, PL20240005501.
Final inspection by staff found these facilities satisfactory and
acceptable on November 21, 2024
6) Recommendation to authorize the County Manager, or designee, to
release the Utilities Performance Security (UPS) in the amount of
$32,033.50 to the Project Engineer or Developer’s designated agent
for Altis Santa Barbara, PL20230009204.
The final acceptance of utilities was approved by the BCC on
April 9, 2024
7) This item requires that Commission members provide ex-parte
disclosure. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants
are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve for
recording the plat of Anthem Parkway - Phase 5B, (Application
Number PL20220004185), approval of the standard form
Construction and Maintenance Agreement, and approval of the
performance security in the amount of $4,035,840.60.
W/stipulations as detailed in the Executive Summary
8) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements and acceptance of the
plat dedications for the final plat of Azure at Hacienda Lakes,
Application Number PL20150002352, and authorize the release of the
maintenance security in the amount of $550,805.24
Resolution 2025-102
Page 19 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 11
9) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements and acceptance of the
plat dedications for the final plat of Bella Tesoro an Esplanade
Community – Phase 1, Application Number PL20190001408, and
authorize the release of the maintenance security in the amount of
$743,372.46.
Resolution 2025-103
10) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Thrive at Naples, Application
Number PL20160002147, and authorize the release of the
maintenance security in the amount of $80,422.78.
Resolution 2025-104
11) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign 1) a
Florida Department of Environmental Protection (“FDEP”) Consent
Order Resolution Offer, 2) an Addendum to Agreement for Sale and
Purchase Indemnifying Collier County, and 3) a Temporary Access
Easement from Collier County to Cypress Cove Landkeepers, Inc.,
f/k/a Cypress Cove Conservancy, Inc., the contract seller, and its
contractors, to complete required monitoring and replanting, if
required by FDEP, related to a pending property purchaser for the
Conservation Collier Program located in the Dr. Robert H. Gore III
project area.
Folio #41501440005
12) Recommendation to approve the properties on the March and April
2025 Conservation Collier Active Acquisition List (AAL) and direct
staff to pursue the projects recommended within the A-Category,
funded by the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Fund.
As seen in the Executive Summary
13) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase
under the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program with
Cameron Lautz for a 2.27-acre parcel at a cost of $72,640, for a total
cost not to exceed $74,410 inclusive of closing costs.
For Folio #38846160008 within the Panther Walk Preserve
Page 20 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 12
14) Recommendation to approve the naming of Brewers Landing Preserve
and the Interim Management Plan under the Conservation Collier
Program.
Folio’s #00209681000, #38601360001, #38601280000, &
#38601320106
15) Recommendation to approve a Second Amendment to Agreement No.
22-7966, “Baseball and Softball Officials,” with the Collier
Recreation Baseball/Softball Umpire Association, Inc., for a one-year
renewal and a price increase for the remaining renewal terms.
Renewing the contract for one year expiring on June 27, 2026
16) Recommendation to accept the donation of two floating docks for use
at Sugden Regional Park with an estimated Fair Market Value of
$40,149 in support of the Parks and Recreation Division’s Water-
Skiing Program from the Freedom Waters Foundation.
From the Freedom Waters Foundation
17) Recommendation to approve an increase of expenditures from
$50,000 to $100,000 per fiscal year under an exemption from the
competitive process for Collier County Sheriff’s Office’s Agreement
#22-027-NS, Law Enforcement Services, continuing through the final
renewal term’s expiration date of June 18, 2027, and authorization to
terminate Agreement #22-031-NS with the Collier County Sheriff's
Office for Delnor-Wiggins Law Enforcement Special Detail.
For professional law enforcement security and traffic enforcement
services for various event dates and times
18) Recommendation to approve a Resolution authorizing the temporary
closing of a portion of Veterans Memorial Boulevard and Livingston
Road and determining that the closure is necessary for the ASHER
Full Scale Training on June 4, 2025, to fulfill Collier County’s permit
requirements for temporary events on Collier County property.
Resolution 2025-105
19) Recommendation to authorize a Budget Amendment of $1,500,000 for
Domestic Animal Services (DAS) to address increased operational
expenses, including veterinary services, temporary labor, and
necessary equipment and supplies, ensuring continued compliance
Page 21 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 13
with state statutes and industry standards.
20) Recommendation to approve the Naples Zoo, Inc.'s proposed project
for the "Safari Canyon" project to allow the Zoo to move forward with
the proposed improvements.
The SDP was approved in 2021 but there were construction delays
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve the submittal of grant application for
Community Project Funding (CPF)/Congressionally Directed
Spending (CDS) in the amount of $4,190,000 to assist with the
construction of a new Transit Operations and Maintenance Facility
through the Federal Transit Award Management System (TrAMS),
accept the award, and authorize the necessary Budget Amendments.
2) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the donation of a
drainage easement (Parcel 129DE) required for Willet Avenue
drainage improvements. Estimated Fiscal Impact: $100.
Donated by Lemonsqueezy, LLC
3) Recommendation to approve the Fourth Amendment to the Collier
Metropolitan Planning Organization’s (the “MPO”) Lease Agreement
extending the agreement to June 30, 2028, and increasing the annual
rent and common area maintenance to $13,875, and the Amended and
Restated Staff Services Agreement between the MPO and the Collier
County Board of County Commissioners (the “Board”).
(Transportation Operating Fund 1001)
4) Recommendation to award Request for Proposal No. 24-8226,
“Project Management Services,” to Jacob’s Engineering Group Inc.,
Capital Consulting Solutions, LLC, and Kimley-Horn and Associates,
Inc., on a primary, secondary, and tertiary basis, and authorize the
Chairman to sign the attached Agreement.
5) Recommendation to approve a Work Order for CSA Ocean Sciences,
Inc., to continue the required post-construction hardbottom
monitoring for the Collier County Beach Nourishment Project in
summer 2025 for time and materials not to exceed $487,367.52
Tourist Development Tax funds under Professional Services
Page 22 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 14
Agreement No. 22-8015, authorize the Chairman to execute the Work
Order, and make a finding that this item promotes tourism (Fund
1105, Project No. 90033).
6) Recommendation to approve the Resolutions authorizing the
Chairman to execute the revised Public Transit Grant Agreement
(PTGA) Section 5310 FPN #448810-1-94-24, and Amendment No. 1
to the Public Transit Grant Agreement Section 5339 FPN #439255-1-
94-23, with the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT), to
accept Federal Transit Administration (FTA) grant funding
modifications, and to authorize the necessary Budget Amendments.
Resolution 2025-106 (5310) and Resolution 2025-107 (5339)
7) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the donation of a
drainage easement (Parcel 117DE2) required for Everglades City
stormwater drainage improvements.
Folio #83840040001
8) Recommendation to approve a Work Order in the amount of
$11,977.00 to Ardaman & Associates, Inc., under the Professional
Services Library Agreement No. 18-7432-TE for Sediment
Compliance Criteria Testing Service for the Park Shore Beach
Renourishment Project, authorize the Chairman to execute the
attached Work Order, and make a finding that this expenditure
promotes tourism. (Fund 1105, Project No. 90067)
9) Recommendation to award Invitation for Qualification No. 24-8225,
“Real Estate Appraisal and Consulting Services,” to RKL Appraisal
and Consulting, PLC, Carroll & Carroll Appraisers & Consultants,
LLC, Maxwell, Hendry & Simmons, LLC, CBRE, Inc, The Urban
Group, Inc., KOVA Appraisal & Consulting Services, LLC d/b/a
Carlson Norris & Associates, and Anderson & Carr, Inc., and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreements.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, as the ex
officio Governing Board of the Collier County Water-Sewer District,
ratify administratively approved Change Order No. 7 to Agreement
No. 21-7938, with R2T, Inc., for the Master Pump Station 302.00 Site
Page 23 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 15
Improvements project, adding ninety days to the contract time,
approving the use of $14,563.80 of the Owner’s Allowance, and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change order. (Project No.
70215)
2) Recommendation to approve the award of Invitation to Bid No. 24-
8307 to Chemical Injection Partners Florida, LLC, as the Primary
Vendor, and Razorback, LLC, as the Secondary Vendor, for Deep
Injection Well System Preventative Maintenance and Repairs and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreements.
3) Recommendation that the Board award Request for Professional
Services No. 24-8229 to Jones Edmunds & Associates, Inc., for
Design Services for the Immokalee Recycling Drop-off Center and
Scalehouse & Control Center Project, authorizing the attached
Agreement in the amount of $1,136,381 (Project #70232).
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to authorize a Budget Amendment to allow
continuous operation of the State Housing Initiatives Partnership
Program with an anticipated award in the amount of $3,135,160 for
State FY 2025/2026. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053)
With 10% of the funds will be used for administrative funds
2) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign three
(3) Releases of Lien for full payment in the amount of $61,612.03
pursuant to the Agreement for Deferral of 100% of Collier County
Impact Fees for Owner Occupied Affordable Housing Dwellings.
Located at 10239 Kingdom Court & 1005 Shady Lane both in
Naples
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign two
(2) mortgage satisfactions for the State Housing Initiatives Partnership
loan program in the amount of $54,000.00. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053)
Located at 1872 Frey Court (Legacy Lakes Lot 23) & 3336
Timberwood Circle Apt 336 both in Naples
4) Recommendation to approve the submittal and authorize the
Chairman to sign the Grant Eligibility Application for a grant donation
Page 24 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 16
to support the replacement of carpet at the East Naples Library in the
amount of $25,600.00. (Public Services Grant Fund 1839)
5) Recommendation to authorize two (2) Budget Amendments for
additional Fiscal Year 2023/2024 SHIP program allocation of
$92,466.00 and to recognize $169,333.94 in program income from
Overnight Investment interest and Payoffs for the State Housing
Initiatives Partnership Program Fiscal Year 2024/2025 (SHIP Grant
Fund 1053).
6) Recommendation to adopt (1) a Resolution of the Board of County
Commissioners establishing a Local Disaster Program, and (2) a
Resolution to approve a technical revision to Fiscal Years 2022-2025
and 2025-2028 State Housing Initiatives Partnership Local Housing
Assistance Plan, adding local disaster response grant program
assistance language and clarifying language to the Disaster Assistance
strategy. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053)
Resolution 2025-108 (Local Disaster Program) and
Resolution 2025-109 (Fiscal Years for SHIP)
7) Recommendation to approve an after-the-fact electronic submittal of
the Fiscal Year 2026 AmeriCorps September 11th National Day of
Service and Remembrance grant continuation application to
AmeriCorps in the amount of $196,561 and allow the County
Manager, or her designee, to serve as the authorized representative for
all administrative reporting and grant submission through the grantor
electronic submission system, e-Grants, throughout the grant period.
(Housing Grant Fund 1835)
8) Recommendation to approve a Second Amendment to extend
Agreement Number 18-7470, “Services for Seniors Program,” with
Summit Home Respiratory Services, Inc., d/b/a Summit Home
Healthcare Products, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
Amendment.
9) Recommendation to approve a Fourth Amendment to extend
Agreement Number 18-7470 “Services for Seniors Program,” with
VIP America of Southwest Florida, LLC, and authorize the Chairman
to sign the attached amendment.
Page 25 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 17
10) Recommendation to approve a Fourth Amendment to extend
Agreement Number 18-7470, “Services for Seniors Program,” with
Maranatha Home Care, Inc., d/b/a A Better Health Care, and authorize
the Chairman to sign the attached amendment
E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to ratify administratively approved Change Order
No. 1 under Agreement No. 23-8096 with Heatherwood Construction
Company, adding 78 days to the Substantial Completion date and
utilizing $214,087.62 of the Owner’s Allowance for Purchase Order
No. 4500229441 on the Pelican Bay New Maintenance Facility
project, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Change
Order. (Project No. 50211)
2) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid No. 25-
8349, “CCSO Jail Buildings J1-J2 Egress Door Alterations,” to
Gemini Properties Group, Inc., in the amount of $276,251.00, approve
an Owner’s Allowance of $10,000.00, and authorize the Chairman to
sign the attached Agreement.
3) Recommendation to approve expenditures with Airbus Helicopters,
Inc., in an amount not to exceed $355,000 per fiscal year for costs
related to: (1) a sole source waiver for HCareSmart Service
Agreement No. 18-7291 in the amount of $110,000 per fiscal year, (2)
a separate sole source waiver for equipment parts, repairs, and
services not covered under the HCareSmart Service Agreement in the
amount of $210,000 per fiscal year, and (3) an exemption for training
related to the County’s air ambulance helicopter in the amount of
$35,000 per fiscal year.
4) Recommendation to approve Amendment No. 20 to the Agreement
with Collier County District School Board for the Driver Education
Program, extending the Driver’s Education funding collected under
the Dori Slosberg Driver Education Ordinance for an additional year.
5) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
Page 26 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 18
to the Fiscal Year 2024-25 Adopted Budget. (The Budget
Amendments in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and
approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
Resolution 2025-110
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution authorizing execution of
Amendment No. 1 to Public Transportation Grant Agreement (PTGA)
452976-1-94-01, Contract No. G2J23 with the Florida Department of
Transportation to extend the end date of the Agreement for the
Security Enhancements at the Immokalee Regional Airport from June
30, 2025, to June 30, 2026, to provide sufficient time for project
completion.
Resolution 2025-111
2) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution authorizing execution of an
Amendment No. 2 to Public Transportation Grant Agreement (PTGA)
450766-1-94-01, Contract No. G2861 with the Florida Department of
Transportation (FDOT) to extend the end date of the Agreement from
June 30, 2025, to December 31, 2025, to provide sufficient time for
project completion.
Resolution 2025-112
3) Recommendation to authorize Budget Amendments to reallocate and
transfer capital funds in the amount of $108,815.40 to rehabilitate and
repair the exterior of six fuel storage tanks at the Marco Island
Executive Airport (MKY) to meet Florida Department of
Environmental Protection (FDEP) requirements. (Airport Capital
Fund 4091)
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) Recommendation to authorize the execution of a Budget Amendment
for $479,000 to replace 10 communications consoles for 9-1-1
Page 27 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 19
operations.
2) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements in the amount of
$51,524,215.80 were drawn for the periods between May 1, 2025, and
May 14, 2025, pursuant to Florida Statute 136.06.
3) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of May 21,
2025.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to waive the residency requirement for Nicolas
Fabregas on the Pelican Bay Services Division Board.
2) Recommendation to provide informed written consent waiving any
potential conflict that the Board may have concerning the law firm
Carlton Fields, P.A. (the “Firm”) under the County’s current Retention
Agreement with the Firm concerning its unrelated representation of
Williams Farms Land Assets, LLC, a Florida limited liability
company, Williams Farms of Immokalee, Inc., a Florida corporation,
Diane R. Williams and Carrie E. Williams as Co-Trustee of the James
E. Williams, Jr. Non-Exempt Estate Tax Sheltered Trust u/a/d
08/13/93, Carrie E. Williams and James E. Williams, III as Trustees of
the Williams Family Assets Trust u/a dated April 25, 1997, and Diane
R. Williams and Carrie E. Williams as Co-Trustees of the James E.
Williams, Jr. GST-Exempt Estate Tax Sheltered Trust u/a/d 08/13/93
(hereafter the “Williams Clients”) in connection with the Williams
Client’s sale of +/- 2,247 acres of real property in Immokalee to
Collier County, Florida, and to approve an Amendment to the
Retention Agreement updating current hourly rates and exercising the
first renewal term under the agreement.
Added (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
3) Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to make a
settlement offer of $15,000, as a nuisance threshold for litigation
strategy purposes, in the matter styled Candice Lee Mills b. Collier
Page 28 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 20
County Board of County Commissioners, Case No. 12-CA-0746,
pending in the Circuit Court of Collier County, Florida.
L. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency approve a CRA Resolution approving the creation and bylaws
of the Immokalee Community Redevelopment (CRA) Advisory
Board, and partially repealing CRA Resolution No. 2001-98, to
replace the Immokalee Local Redevelopment Advisory Board and the
Immokalee Beautification Advisory Committee; and approve the
creation of the Immokalee Community Redevelopment Advisory
Board by the BCC. (Companion to Item #17B)
Resolution 2025-113
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. Summary Agenda - This section is for advertised public hearings and must
meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from staff; 2)
Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County Planning
Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present and voting;
3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the Collier
County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the Board, prior
to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items are scheduled to
be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in opposition to the
item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all participants must
be sworn in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adopted – 5/0
A. This item has been continued to the June 10, 2025, BCC Meeting, public
comments will not be heard until the official hearing. This item was
previously continued from the May 13, 2025, BCC Meeting to the May
27, 2025, BCC Meeting. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance amending
the Collier County Land Development Code to implement the Immokalee
Area Master Plan Element of the Growth Management Plan, to change the
Immokalee Urban Overlay District to the Immokalee Urban Area Overlay
District (IUAOD) Zoning District, revise, rename, and add subdistricts, and
establish uses, boundaries and design standards. [PL2024004278] (First of
two hearings)
Page 29 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 21
B. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopt an
Ordinance creating the Immokalee Community Redevelopment Advisory
Board to replace the CRA-created Immokalee Local Redevelopment
Advisory Board and the Immokalee Beautification Advisory Committee and
repeal Ordinance No. 22 02-52 (Per County Attorney’s Office). (Companion
to Item #16L1)
Ordinance 2025-27
C. Recommendation to approve an ordinance amending Ordinance 89-05, as
amended, The Collier County Growth Management Plan, specifically
amending the Future Land Use Element and map series by changing the land
use designation of property from Urban, Mixed-Use District, Urban Coastal
Fringe Subdistrict to Urban, Urban-Commercial District, 951 Vehicle Suites
Commercial Subdistrict, To allow 135,000 square feet of gross floor area of
indoor air-conditioned vehicle storage including automobiles, recreational
vehicles, swamp buggies, four wheelers and boats (Sic Code 4225), and
furthermore directing transmittal of the adopted amendment to The Florida
Department of Commerce, providing for severability and providing for an
effective date. The subject property is located on the west side of Collier
Boulevard north of Championship Drive and 1.5 miles south of Tamiami
Trail East, in Section 15, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, Collier County,
Florida, consisting of ±9.30 acres. (PL20240001700) (Companion to Item
#17D)
Ordinance 2025-28
D. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance amending Ordinance Number
2004-41, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, which
established the Comprehensive Zoning Regulations for the unincorporated
area of Collier County, Florida, by amending the appropriate Zoning Atlas
Map or Maps by changing the zoning classification of the herein described
real property from the Rural Agricultural (A) zoning district to the
Commercial Planned Unit (CPUD) zoning district for a project to be known
as 951 Vehicle Suites CPUD, to allow the development of 135,000 square
feet of gross floor area of indoor air-conditioned Vehicle Storage including
automobiles, recreational vehicles, swamp buggies, four wheelers, and boats
(SIC Code 4225) on property located on the west side of Collier Boulevard
north of Championship Drive and 1.5 miles south of Tamiami Trail East, in
Section 15, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida,
consisting of 9.30± acres; and by providing an effective date.
Page 30 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 22
[PL20240001704] (Companion to Item #17C)
Ordinance 2025-29
E. Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the
Fiscal Year 2024-25 Adopted Budget. (The Budget Amendments in the
attached Resolution have been reviewed and approved by the Board of
County Commissioners via separate Executive Summaries.)
Resolution 2025-114
F. This item has been continued to the June 10 24 (Per Agenda Change
Sheet), 2025, BCC Meeting, public comments will not be heard until the
official hearing. Recommendation to amend the Innovation Zone Ordinance
to remove any cap on the trust fund, allow the Board to utilize Innovation
Zone Trust funds for any public purpose declared by the Board, and extend
the Ave Maria Innovation Zone for another 10 years.
18. Adjourn
Inquiries concerning changes to the Board’s Agenda should be made to the County
Manager’s Office at 252-8383.
Page 31 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 23
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Good morning. Welcome to our County Commission
meeting.
As we get started, I do want to mention, too, there are
some folks here for the NC Square project. That's going to
be continued. So I don't know if you knew that, but that will
be continued, so I wanted to let you know.
Well, let's get started in the right way. We have Pastor
Curt Anderson. It's always a pleasure seeing you here, and
help us get started in the right way, sir.
Item #1A
INVOCATION: PASTOR KIRT ANDERSON - NAPLES
COMMUNITY CHURCH, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: WILLIAM
FULLER WITH "WE SERVED" MONTHLY PROGRAMS AT
SAINT JOHN THE EVANGELIST TO CONNECT WITH FELLOW
VETERANS, SHARE EXPERIENCES, AND LEARN ABOUT VA
RULES AND LAWS THAT AFFECT COMPENSATION -
INVOCATION GIVEN; PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED
PASTOR ANDERSON: So just a moment of personal
privilege. These people work so hard, and they never get
credit, but they will always get the blame. And today
they've got an issue of both mental health and a bar. They
need our help and prayers to navigate such difficult issues.
But one thing is clear, when the people go north, it's like all
of our problems disappear. How nice that is.
Let's bow together. Our gracious God, grateful as we
are for the privilege of living here, we seek your strength
Page 32 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 24
and guidance that this body, given their stewardship over
right government and development, may continue to strike
that delicate balance allowing for growth without clogging
the arteries of our infrastructure.
It's tough for so many who can't afford to live where
they work, especially our law enforcement, first responders,
educators, wait staff, gardeners, we all share the challenge
that you've set before us to attend to the least of our brothers
and sisters, and in all ways, we seek the welfare of the
community. Empower these servants and the high calling to
which they've been called. We ask this in the name of your
incarnate love. Amen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have the Pledge of
Allegiance this morning with Mr. William Fuller. And I've
asked Mr. Fuller, after the Pledge, to tell us a little bit about
himself and some things that he's involved in that's serving
veterans.
Mr. Fuller.
MR. FULLER: Good morning, everyone. My name is
Bill Fuller, and I am a Vietnam veteran. May I ask you all
to join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And as you approach the
podium, I want to thank you for your service, and what is
usually appropriate to say, welcome back.
MR. FULLER: Thank you, sir.
Commissioners, guests, I thank you for having me lead
the Pledge of Allegiance this morning. I run a veterans
group at St. John the Evangelist catholic church under the
Knights of Columbus. I label the meetings "You don't know
what you don't know."
Page 33 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 25
I bring veterans in from all over the county, and even
when the snowbirds come down they take advantage of the
meeting or the meetings. They walk in, they walk out
shaking their heads. As we all know, as at least the veterans
know, the VA is very convoluted. They're broken into three
parts, and they don't talk to each other.
It's my job, hopefully, to get more information to the
veterans so they can receive the compensation and the care
that they actually need. It's an ever ongoing task to do that,
but it's very important to me and for all those who are in the
military.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT, AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX-PARTE DISCLOSURE
PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT
AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL
Page 34 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 26
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners
Meeting May 27, 2025
Add on Item 16.K.3: Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to make a settlement offer of
$15,000, as a nuisance threshold for litigation strategy purposes, in the matter styled Candice Lee Mills v.
Collier County Board of County Commissioners, Case No. 23-CA-0746, pending in the Circuit Court of
Collier County, Florida. (Staff’s Request)
Notes:
• The title for Item 17F should indicate that it is continued until the June 24, 2025, BCC Meeting.”
• The Resolution for Item 16A18 was inadvertently omitted from the initial agenda publication
and was added the following day.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 11A to be heard at 9:30 AM: Consideration of the fourth amendment to the Land Contract and
Naming Rights Agreement with David Lawrence Mental Health Center, Inc., for Behavioral Health Center
Operations and Funding Use.
Item 10A to be heard at 1:00 PM: Discussion to consider amending the Tourist Development Tax
Ordinance to increase the rate and initiate the referendum process.
5/23/2025 8:03 PM
Page 35 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 27
Item #2B
MAY 13, 2025, BCC MINUTES - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Agenda changes for
May 27th, 2025. First, we have an add-on item. 16K3 is a
recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to make a
settlement offer of $15,000 as a nuisance threshold for
litigation strategy purposes in the matter styled Candice Lee
Mills versus Collier County Board of County
Commissioners, Case No. 23-CA-0746, pending in the
Circuit Court of Collier County, Florida. This is being
added at staff's request.
We do have a couple of agenda notes. First, the title
for Item 17F should indicate that it's continued until the
June 24th, 2025, BCC meeting.
And the resolution for Item 16A18 was inadvertently
omitted from the initial agenda publication and was added
the following day.
We do have two time-certain items. The first is 11A to
be heard at 9:30 a.m. This is consideration of the fourth
amendment to the land contract and naming rights
agreement with David Lawrence Center Mental Health
Center, Inc., for Behavioral Health Center operations and
funding use.
The second is Item 10A to be heard at 1 p.m., which is
a discussion to consider amending the Tourist Development
Tax ordinance to increase the rate and initiate the
referendum process.
Page 36 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 28
We have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and
again at 2:50, if necessary.
And as the Chair noted, the Item 9A and 9B, which are
the NC Square items, were continued. There is a -- and I
was going to bring this up at the end of the meeting, but
perhaps now is the right time. There's been a request by the
applicant to hear this item on June 24th. That's outside of
what we typically hear due to the large volume of public
objection; however, because we're in an unusual
circumstance with this one, which it got started and then
stopped and has been continued, I wanted to discuss this
with the Board as far as your -- if you're okay with it being
heard on June 24th or if you prefer for it to be continued to
the fall.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We'll see if there's
any effort in that regard.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm probably going to be
abroad somewhere in Europe --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- traveling on that day.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. So
advise the petitioner that there's likely to be at least one
board member not here. I don't know if you'll be able to
participate by phone. But regardless of that, the petitioner
does have the right to have a full board, and so this would
then -- if it's not heard in June, it would be put off until
September?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, September.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other
changes?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. If we could get -- County
Page 37 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 29
Attorney, do you have any further changes?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He didn't even ask
me.
MR. KLATZKOW: No, ma'am, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, that's true. I figured
that you'd either push the button or you'd speak up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no, no. And
you're absolutely correct, and I'm totally fine. If
Commissioner Kowal can participate by phone, then we
have a full board. If not, then manage it accordingly. I'm
fine with hearing it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Me, too.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The weight is on your
shoulders.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, as I said, reach out
to the petitioner, and let's see what their petition is.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then we can discuss
whether or not we have that opportunity.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We'll schedule it
accordingly once we've spoken with the applicant. With
that, we need ex parte on the summary and consent and any
further changes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No changes, and I have
nothing on the consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good morning,
Mr. Chairman. I have no changes and no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
Page 38 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 30
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Same.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner
LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same for me; no
changes, no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I have no changes
and no ex parte as well. I will say at the outset, we do have
the hobby breeder's ordinance on the agenda. It's Item 9D. I
do want to get into a discussion of it, but it's my -- it's going
to be my request to continue that so we can make sure that
we get that ordinance in the right format. But there may be
some people that want to discuss that. So I'm going to ask
that that be heard but with the understanding that I am going
to ask for it to be continued.
All right. Then we need a motion to approve the
agenda as amended.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a
motion and a second. Seeing no discussion, all those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passed unanimously.
The approval of the minutes, May 13, 2025. Any
discussion?
Page 39 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 31
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, is there a
motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Move to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Motion and second. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Item #3A1
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 3, awards and recognitions.
First up we have 3A1, our 20-year attendees. Santiago
Ventura, Parks and Recreation. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MR. VENTURA: Thank you, all.
THE PHOTOGRAPHER: Santiago, do you want to
stand right in the middle.
MR. VENTURA: Thank you, everybody.
(Applause.)
Page 40 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 32
Item #3A2
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Next up, we have our 25-year
attendees. First, Lauren Beard, Development Review.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Twenty-five years, Mona Vega,
Libraries. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
Item #5A
STAFF PRESENTATION ON BEAR RESISTANT CONTAINERS –
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I believe we have
enough time to take Item 5A, which is a staff presentation
on bear-resistant containers, before we get to our 9:30
time-certain. And Ms. Kari Hodgson, your director of Solid
Waste -- Solid and Hazardous Waste, is on her way up to
present.
MS. HODGSON: Good morning, Commissioners. For
the record, Kari Hodgson, your director of Solid Waste. I
have prepared a very brief presentation for you or, at your
liberty, I can take any questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, why don't you go
ahead with the presentation. We do have plenty of time.
MS. HODGSON: Sure. All right.
Page 41 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 33
Ordinance 2019-36 permits customers to purchase and
own county-approved bear-resistant containers. What you
see here is a heat map of who has purchased bear containers
and where they exist in Collier County.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go back to that map
real quick.
MS. HODGSON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're flipping along
here. We barely had a -- now, this is a heat map of where
the bears are active?
MS. HODGSON: This is a heat map of where people
live who have purchased bear-resistant containers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. Okay.
MS. HODGSON: The county-approved bear
containers, our customers have two options for obtaining
them. One is that they can purchase bear-resistant
containers through our two haulers, Waste Pro and Waste
Management. They cost about $377. It does -- the price
does fluctuate based on the market. That's their cost right
now, and so it's at cost plus a delivery fee.
The second option for our customers for having
bear-resistant garbage containers is that they can modify
their existing green top. What's really important for this is
that our customers unsecure the top before garbage
collection. With that being said, we have available in our
website instructions from WFC in PDF form and video form
for customers to be able to make that modification to their
existing container.
To see how easy or difficult this is and how much it
costs, I went this weekend to my local hardware store, and
for $33.18. I purchased the supplies listed here to make my
Page 42 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 34
own bear-resistant container. And it took me about 15
minutes sons [sic] drilling the holes in my garbage
container. So I can happily give a demonstration to anyone
that might need. I have not tested this. This is, again, FWC
recommendation to minimize the human and bear conflicts.
And lastly, on our website, in collaboration with
Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission, we have a bear wise
and bear cart section that has a link to the Florida Fish and
Wildlife Commission's website along with those PDF
instructions and video instructions for making your garbage
container bear proof to help reduce any bear/human
conflicts, and there's other tips and tricks on there from their
website.
And with that, I'm available for any questions that you
might have.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
Have we, to your knowledge -- I have a couple of
questions.
MS. HODGSON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have we, to your
knowledge, begun any kind of a population estimation of
our bear population and its dispersal?
MS. HODGSON: I would defer to Florida Fish and
Wildlife Commission for any type of bear tracking. We just
track the garbage containers, and, also, we send out surveys
to our customers to see their satisfaction with the customers
and if they've noticed any minimization in the bear
interactions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I would, at
Page 43 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 35
some stage, like to see that. I actually had an opportunity to
speak on the radio this morning. There was some -- there
was a bear sighting in Fort Myers in a downtown area in a
fairly urban area. And I called in on the radio show and
spoke about this presentation today about the necessity for
education and why we're doing what we're doing here.
The other side of that equation is growth, population
growth, both human and our four-legged friends. And the
commingling of those two don't always happen and -- or
don't always happen well, I should say. Certainly with that
fellow that lost his life last month.
My second question that I have for you is there was a
time when FWC put out grant money to help offset the
increase and the cost for the bear-resistant containers. Can
you talk a little bit about that?
MS. HODGSON: Sure. So that's actually how the heat
map was established. Back in 2018, I believe, is when the
Board of County Commissioners at that time approved the
county staff to work on a grant to obtain bear-resistant
garbage containers, and after being awarded that grant,
about -- a little less than 500 were sold.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are there any funds
available for folks that would like to participate in that?
MS. HODGSON: At this time we do not have any
grant funds that remain from that project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And the other
question I had there was, are the apparatus on our disposal
trucks set up to be able to handle those containers?
MS. HODGSON: Yeah, that's a great question. So
along with our automated curbside service, that's why they
have to be county approved. We have to make sure that if
Page 44 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 36
somebody wants a brand of container, that it's been tested
with our garbage trucks to make sure that the automation
arm will still work, because that's part -- all built into our
prices for our level of services.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And do we have
anybody that can offer advice for someone who's looking to
better protect their solid waste disposal processes? Do we
have people that will come and visit with folks and talk to
them about where they can put their refuge
and -- refuse -- not refuge but refuse -- to properly store it?
MS. HODGSON: Sure. So as mentioned on our
website, there's links to Florida Fish and Wildlife
Commission as well as the instructions for modifying your
existing container, and -- yeah, this was a fun weekend
project.
And so we also, in collaboration with FWC, go out to
communities and give presentations, and we do those
multiple times a year, usually at the request of the
homeowners association or the community. So from our
interaction with Florida Fish and Wildlife, they've been very
approachable and collaborative with us in working on
educating the public, and again, our website also has these
links.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I would like to
recommend that all of us take this issue up. No one is -- no
one is oblivious to the bear population no matter where or
what district you're, in fact, in.
So I would like for us -- over a period of time for all of
us to engage with the agencies, both our Solid Waste and
FWC, to better educate our population as to how to best
protect yourself, your family, and not -- and reduce those
Page 45 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 37
inevitable negative conflicts that come about.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, you -- our staff will
periodically issue press releases and then just reports on
staff activities. So that would be a good way to at least get
the word out to folks that would be interested in looking at
our web page or receiving information from the manager's
office. It's a good idea, but that would be a good start.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We'll work with
Mr. Mullins to put some information out as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perfect.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you,
Chairman.
Kari, I saw something on social media over the last
couple days. There was some chatter from some citizens
saying that their garbage cans were being stolen, and then
somebody chimed in said, "Oh, there's a market out on the
black market of people that come by at 2 o'clock in the
morning and steal garbage cans and then sell them
somewhere."
Do we have a fair amount of our -- of these cans being
pilfered, either the recycling ones or the green ones, and
we're replacing a lot of them because citizens are saying
they were, you know, stolen?
I mean, there was significant discussion. It was on one
of the social media pages. And I didn't comment because I
didn't have the details if it was, you know, urban legend or
true, but I thought you would know.
MS. HODGSON: Are you specifically referring to the
bear-resistant containers?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No, no, just garbage
Page 46 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 38
cans in general, and then somebody chimed in and said, oh,
there's -- you can -- if you want extra bins, like not to put out
in front of your house, but maybe they're nice for storage in
your garage or something, and you want to buy those, that
there's people that list those on Craig's List, or they have
some underground -- they said there's a market for them.
But we would know. Are we getting a lot of reports of cans
disappearing and being -- like, I know that we replace
broken cans all the time, but do we get a fair amount of
reports that say, "I put my cans out on the curb, and they're
missing"?
MS. HODGSON: It happens from time to time. We
meet with Waste Management and Waste Pro, our local
garbage haulers, and we go over these kind of statistics on a
monthly meeting if we're seeing a spike in stolen containers.
The bear-resistant containers in particular, because
they're so expensive, we do have concerns of those being
stolen; however, they are marked with serial numbers and
can be reported as stolen, because we also have them, as you
see, registered to an owner.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But as far as -- so
since the meetings that you have, there might be some
onesie, twosies, but we don't have some massive
disappearance of garbage cans, whether they're
bear-resistant or regular, throughout the county? That's not
something you're seeing a large spike in?
MS. HODGSON: Not that I'm aware of.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
Thanks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Page 47 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 39
Kari, is this presentation coming to us because we've
seen an increase in bears getting into the trash so we're
trying to be, you know, reactive, or we're trying to -- or are
we trying to be proactive and keep that from happening
more and more?
MS. HODGSON: Yeah. So we were requested to give
an update on the status of bear-resistant containers. Again,
there was a grant that was awarded in 2018, so I'm not sure
if that was the nexus behind the request. But it, again, raises
the public awareness to what resources are available to our
customers.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Are we seeing an increase
or --
MS. HODGSON: I'm sorry. We have not seen
increases.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Quick question, I was -- because I know in the past
we've had incidents where -- some of our apartment
complexes where they have the dumpster sites and, you
know -- and over time, that the bears seem they really know
where those locations are. It's like a buffet. It's like going to
the buffet going to dumpsters sites.
I know these are -- you're particularly talking about,
you know, individual citizens with these cans. Have
we -- have we addressed that and like having these
new -- when they build a new facility or build a new
property that has these dumpster sites, are they taking
precautions too?
Page 48 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 40
MS. HODGSON: Commercial customers can always
have bear-resistant containers. There's an extra charge a
month because there's just a -- they have to reinforce the lid.
So that's available to all of our commercial customers to
obtain a bear-resistant lid for their commercial dumpster.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have any
registered speakers, Troy?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. Just a
presentation.
MR. MILLER: It's a pres- -- no, we do not.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, we have
about eight minutes. Anything that we can take up that
would be very quick?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We have -- do we have
any public comment, Troy, for Item 7?
MR. MILLER: One registered speaker for Item 7.
That is Christine Briggs.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, Ms. Briggs.
MS. BRIGGS: I was -- I'm sorry, I was registered for
public comment, Number 9 --
MR. MILLER: Yeah. You registered for that and for
general public comment. So we'll strike that then.
MS. BRIGGS: -- not this one. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
That was a good try, Ms. Patterson. Anything else?
Item #11C
TO CONSIDER AND PROVIDE DIRECTION REGARDING THE
LETTER OF INTEREST FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY
Page 49 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 41
AGRICULTURAL & FAIR EXPOSITION INC., TO PURCHASE A
PORTION OF THE CAMP KEAIS PROPERTY TO RELOCATE
THE COLLIER COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS. (TRINITY SCOTT,
DEPARTMENT HEAD - TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT
SERVICES DEPARTMENT) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we could quickly
take Item 11C. This is relative to the interest from the fair
board in buying a portion of Camp Keais. I think this one
could go quickly.
Item 11C is a recommendation to the Board of County
Commissioners to consider and provide direction regarding
the letter of interest from the Collier County Agricultural
and Fair Exposition, Inc., to purchase a portion of the Camp
Keais property to relocate the Collier County Fairgrounds.
Trinity Scott, your department head for Transportation
Management Services department, is here to present or
answer questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, this is not -- this is
not for final decision. This is just for our information and
for direction to staff; is that correct?
MS. SCOTT: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MS. SCOTT: And I'm going to try to pull up my
presentation here really quick. Okay. There it goes.
So today --
MS. PATTERSON: Sorry.
MS. SCOTT: That's okay. Amy threw me off this
morning. Glad I had my coffee.
Page 50 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 42
So today we are here to talk about the fair board has
sent a letter to the county with interest to purchase 100 plus
or minus acres of the Camp Keais property for relocation of
the fairgrounds. The subject property is noted in red on this
slide with a little bit closer-in aerial.
The Camp Keais property was purchased by the county
back in March of 2021. It is just over a thousand acres, and
at the time when it was presented to the Board, potential
property uses included fairgrounds, parks and recreation,
debris management sites, workforce housing.
The board -- I'm sorry. The fair board submitted a
letter back in May of 2024 with its initial letter of interest,
and in January of 2025, they issued a supplemental letter of
interest with a request to purchase 100 plus-or-minus acres
of developable acres with access to Oil Well Road.
They provided a tentative list of uses that were similar
to their existing facility at the fairgrounds, but they also
wanted the ability to host community events such as
concerts and arts and craft shows and also have passive
recreation facilities.
Last year, in August of 2024, the Board also heard a
proposal from Barron Collier Companies asking to exchange
approximately 439 acres of the Camp Keais property for an
equal value of property at Silver Strand. We are currently
working with Barron Collier Companies to bring an item
back to the Board on that. But from this aerial, you see that
we have lots of acreage left to be able to effectuate the sales
and purchase agreement with the fair board, notwithstanding
what would potentially be encumbered by the swap
property.
So the fair board is currently leasing in its existing
Page 51 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 43
location, and their lease expires in 2037. The fair board
would prefer to own the property rather than lease because it
would make them eligible for a wider range of funding
opportunities, such as grants and other programs they are
tied to capital investment.
The initial purchase price for the Camp Keais property
was just over $13,000 an acre. This was also -- the
acquisition was financed, so the county has incurred some
interest costs since the purchase. And based on the swap
discussions that we've had with the Barron Collier
Companies, we have completed two appraisals on the
property. They were dated January of 2025, and the market
value at that time was $20,250 per acre.
So our recommendation today is we're asking the Board
to direct County Manager or designee to move forward with
the fair board to develop a purchase and sales agreement to
be presented at a future meeting for a portion of the Camp
Keais property and also provide direction on the purchase
price per acre for the fair board.
And under Florida Statutes, the county may sell to a
non-profit organization at a nominal price, but if the Board
desires to sell at less than market value, which is the
$20,250 per acre, we would recommend direction to include
a reverter provision and deed restriction on the property, and
those specific terms would come back to the Board with a
purchase and sales agreement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. In an effort to
move forward, I've been working on this for eight years,
since I became a commissioner, working with the fair board,
working with our previous staff, negotiating the purchase of
Page 52 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 44
this thousand acres.
If you go to the map of that thousand acres -- you had it
right there. The Camp Keais piece is the property that we
currently own. The pink/green hashed area is the land that
we're discussing with Barron Collier to do the exchange.
Don't get all encumbered on the exchange and the
provisions, because the details of that exchange are still in
process of being worked out.
On the bottom left-hand side, which would be
southwest corner, right there, in that -- in that area is the
proposition to relocate the Collier County Fair and the
Swamp Buggy and the Sheriff's Youth Ranch that's
currently next to the Swamp Buggy. Those other two
agreements, the Swamp Buggy and the Sheriff's Youth
Ranch, are in the works. They're not even ready to be
discussed right now.
We are ready to move forward with the Collier County
Fair. I have always represented to the fair board from the
beginning that we would sell them this land for what the
county paid for it, plus interest, if we have to finance it. The
goal here is to get taxpayers' money back.
Commissioner LoCastro regularly speaks, it's not our
money. It's the taxpayers' money. And so in order to ensure
that we do that equitably, we would enter into an agreement
with them to sell them approximately 100 acres there.
I did receive direction or authority, if you will, from
AMU, the Ave Maria Utility. They are welcoming the
extension of utilities to that site, which will enhance the
usability for everybody, including us.
So it would be my recommendation that we go forward
with this transaction at our cost, plus interest, negotiate a
Page 53 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 45
contract with them, and go forward with that arrangement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't want to slow this
down, but we're rushing a decision here. What I'd like to
consider -- just consider, let's keep this on the regular
agenda. Let's get back to the David Lawrence Center at 9:30
and come back to this, because there's some policy issues
here, and I don't want us to just rush it because we've got
another item. Is that okay with the Board?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure. Fine with me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, let's hold
off on this, because there are some serious policy issues
there that I think we need to discuss.
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I don't want to do
that in a rushed manner. So let's move on to the David
Lawrence Center, and then we'll come back to this.
Item #11A
APPROVAL AND EXECUTION: 1) A FOURTH AMENDMENT
TO VACANT LAND CONTRACT WITH DAVID LAWRENCE
MENTAL HEALTH CENTER, INC., TO MODIFY THE COLLIER
COUNTY STANDARD FORM LONG-TERM LEASE AND
INCLUDE AN OPERATING AGREEMENT EXHIBIT
GOVERNING BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CENTER OPERATIONS;
AND 2) AN AMENDMENT TO THE NAMING RIGHTS
AGREEMENT TO CLARIFY USE OF FUNDS ACQUIRED WITH
NAMING RIGHTS. (ED FINN, DEPUTY COUNTY MANAGER) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS
(COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS WITHDREW HIS SECOND)
Page 54 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 46
MOTION FAILED DUE TO LACK OF A SECOND; MOTION TO
CONTINUE TO THE JUNE 10TH BCC MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that does bring us
to our 9:30 time-certain. Item 11A is a recommendation that
the Board of County Commissioners review and consider for
approval and execution, one, a fourth amendment to vacant
land contract with David Lawrence Mental Health Center,
Inc., to modify the Collier County standard form long-term
lease and include an operating agreement exhibit governing
Behavioral Health Center operations and, two, an
amendment to the naming rights agreement to clarify use of
funds acquired with naming rights.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manager, will begin
the presentation.
MR. FINN: Thank you, Ms. Patterson. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman, members of the Board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. FINN: Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager.
As County Manager Patterson just noted, our objective
today is to consider amendments to the various agreements
with David Lawrence Center governing the Behavioral
Health Center to be constructed near the existing
campus -- David Lawrence Center campus on Golden Gate
Parkway.
Sally Ashkar from the County Attorney's Office and
Kristi Sonntag with your community -- Community and
Human Services department have worked diligently on this
contract and will be available to answer questions.
Page 55 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 47
If it pleases the Chair, Mr. Morton, the DLC board
chairman, and Mr. Burgess would also like to be part of this
presentation.
With that, the Behavioral Health Center is a surtax
funded community priority project, voter endorsed in 2018.
It was identified as a priority project in the five-year
strategic plan identified by the Mental Health Addiction
Advisory Committee. The Behavioral Health Center will
serve as a central receiving facility for individuals requiring
services under the Baker and Marchman Acts.
This slide simply identifies the Behavioral Health
Center's planning and construction teams as well as some of
the key stakeholders of the Mental Health and Addiction
Advisory Committee.
Project location. Project is located on the north side of
Golden Gate Parkway, one parcel to the east of the existing
David Lawrence Center campus in the Golden Gate
Parkway institutional subdistrict.
A quick view. This is a -- this is a rendering looking
from the northwest with Golden Gate Parkway towards the
top of the -- top of the slide.
Timeline of the contracts we're considering today. The
original vacant land contract and form lease initially was
approved in 2001 -- 2021 -- I wish it was 2001. We might
be done with it -- and has moved forward since. I can recall
the last time the Board was presented with this, I think
Mr. Dunnuck pointed out that this has been before the Board
I believe he said 17 times. This would be another time, and
Mr. Dunnuck was not counting the trips to the surtax
committee when he made that comment.
Our objective today is to review and consider for
Page 56 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 48
approval the fourth amendment to the vacant land contract
with David Lawrence Mental Health Center, to update the
long-term lease, add an appropriate operating agreement,
and approve an amendment to the naming rights agreement
to clarify the use of naming rights funds.
Vacant land contract lease updates clarifies the name.
The facility will operate as a -- as the -- which is the central
receiving facility, and will be known as the Behavioral
Health Center, the Collier County Behavioral Health Center.
It adds default language to tie it to the operating agreement,
clarifies the maintenance responsibility. Specifically, it
talks about the expected useful life so that it's clear our
responsibility is replacement at that point in time, and it
adjusts the insurance requirements as well.
The fourth amendment terms of the operating
agreement or on the operating attachment to the lease,
statement of work identifies the facility will be used as a
central receiving facility under Baker and Marchman Acts or
other criteria as defined by Florida Statute; details the
operating hours of the facility; number of beds; type of
services rendered; compliance with the existing agreements
and guidelines; emphasizes the furniture, fixture, and
equipment shall be the responsibility of the David Lawrence
Center for the life of the lease, including the original
acquisition; also provides some clarification on some
not-so-clear meaning of furniture, fixture, and equipment to
include security video systems, cameras, artwork, and
medical equipment; provides an appropriate definition of
licensure and accreditation for -- that David Lawrence
Center is responsible for.
There are three -- there are three sheets dealing with the
Page 57 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 49
operating agreement.
Collaboration, mostly that provides for the David
Lawrence Center to make changes or proposed changes to
the County Manager or designee governing exactly what the
facility will be used for. The intent there is to be able to
make adjustments to the services being provided consistent
with changes in practices.
Performance measures and penalties are included in the
agreement.
Funding. Funding states the county is not responsible
for operational funding beyond a baseline funding that's
essentially being currently provided. The options the Board
has and the options David Lawrence Center have are
identified in the agreement. David Lawrence Center may
request the Board to make up for deficits if they exist. The
Board then has the option to either agree to fund or to agree
to a reduction in the level of service, and in the event that an
agreement isn't reached, the -- that is a terminable event.
So the Board has the option to review, David Lawrence
Center has the option to request, and the decision is the
Board's on exactly what's done with additional funding.
Administrative provisions deals with the quality of
staffing, incident reports, records review, safety and
security, signage, and compliance with laws.
Termination. We'll get into the termination perhaps in
a little more detail here. If the Board doesn't agree to
change the standards in the operating agreement based on
that three-year review, either party at that point may
terminate the lease. So that deals with the -- with changes in
the use of the facility to meet current standards. If there was
a deficit in funding, the Board declines to make adjustments
Page 58 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 50
to the level of service and denies funding, either party may
terminate the lease.
Should the lease be terminated, David Lawrence Center
will have the ability to purchase the facility for the greater of
fair market value or the cost of construction.
If DLC fails to exercise its option to purchase, the
county retains the land and the facility. There's no
termination right for failure to meet performance measures
in the operating agreement, rather that triggers penalty
provisions and the corrective action plan requirement. The
lease itself does not contain any termination rights outside of
standard default provisions.
Naming rights. The naming rights amendment includes
new terms regarding the use of naming rights, proceeds, and
reporting, specifically requires funding of furniture, fixtures,
and equipment. Excess proceeds generated through naming
rights must be used solely for operational expenses for the
facility over the term of the lease, provide some
supplemental annual reporting, and a requirement to
maintain complete and accurate records to support the
requirement, the reporting, and make the records available
for inspection.
The recommendation: If the Board wishes to proceed
with the construction of this facility and follow -- the
following actions are required: Approve and execute a
fourth amendment to the vacant land contract with David
Lawrence to modify the county standard form long-term
lease and include an operating agreement exhibit and
approve and execute an amendment to the naming rights
agreement clarifying use of funds required with naming
rights.
Page 59 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 51
If it pleases the Chair, perhaps we could hear from
Mr. Morton and Mr. Burgess.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's see if there are any
questions from the Commission before we turn to the
general public comment. Any questions at this point in
time?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I do have -- I do have one
that may require Mr. Ashkar to help us out here. If there is a
termination of the lease, for whatever reason, what happens?
I understand that there are some options here, but in reality,
what are the options and what happens?
MS. ASHKAR: Yes. Good morning, Commissioners.
Sally Ashkar, Assistant County Attorney, for the record.
If the lease is terminated under the two terminable
events or in the event of a default, as Mr. Finn stated this
morning, then what would happen is DLC would have six
months to purchase the facility at the greater of the fair
market value of the facility or the tax dollar expenditure for
the construction of the facility. So they have six months to
make that election. If they fail to make that election or they
determine they don't want to purchase the facility, then the
facility remains in the county's hands as well as the land that
it lies on remains ours as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any
other -- any other questions before we move to some public
comment?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Not yet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's move to the other
principals here.
Page 60 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 52
MR. BURGESS: I might need a little help trying to get
the slides up.
Troy, it's in the folder under the iDrive. That's it.
Thank you very much.
Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you for
allowing us to be here to provide some additional
information. We were going to start our presentation off
with some comments from our chairman of the board,
Edward Morton.
MR. MORTON: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning.
MR. MORTON: For those of you who don't know me,
my name is Edward Morton. I'm very familiar with most of
the commissioners. Many of you may recall for 35 years I
served this community as the CFO then the CEO of the
NCH Healthcare system.
I retired from NCH about 15, 16 years ago, and I took
over as a partner in a financial firm that manages billions of
dollars in municipal bond and corporate bond interests
around the country. A large percentage of that is healthcare
related. At the same time, I joined a private equity group,
and part of my responsibilities are the evaluation of
healthcare facilities around the country for purchase and
holding, I might add. That's my background.
I'm here today to talk about David Lawrence, our
community, and a working relationship with the County
Commission over many, many years. We have struggled
together, and together we have improved the mental health
picture for Collier County in a variety of ways.
The most demonstrable way that we have done that, for
those of you that have been with the Commission for a
Page 61 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 53
number of years, if we go back about seven years, the jail
population was somewhere around 1,100, 1,150. The jail
population today is about 750. So despite the fantastic
growth of our community, we have lowered the jail
population significantly, and that has to do with the
cooperation between the county, the Sheriff's Office, the
mental health courts, the veterans services groups that have
all contributed to bringing down the need for people to be
incarcerated, and together we can, I think, hold our head up
very high for the dignity which we have provided to a lot of
people for many years, specifically as respects this building
and the services therein.
It's important to note that the wonderful relationship
that we have with your staff and the trust that has built up
over the years is a significant asset in negotiating with one
another in arriving at an agreement which, today, the Board
of David Lawrence and the management team fully support
those terms and the obligations thereunder and the pro forma
financial statement.
If I could comment briefly on the financial statement,
we have worked diligently with your staff and with our staff
and others around the state, and that pro forma, as it exists
today, has been significantly reduced. The financial
obligation that you saw initially has been dramatically
reduced, and it's been reduced to the point where I, as
chairman and member of the board, am fully committed to
covering those losses that do remain without an unnecessary
commitment to asking for additional funding. That pro
forma that you're looking at anticipates no additional
revenues from the General Fund of the county from that
which exists today.
Page 62 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 54
So diligently, we and your staff and others, have
worked so that the General Fund obligation today will be
sufficient with our efforts to work within this community to
raise the sufficient funds to cover the remaining loss. That
is a commitment all of us make on the board, the
management team, and everybody associated with David
Lawrence.
Lastly, you may be aware of the dramatic changes in
David Lawrence, the new buildings, the enthusiasm of the
philanthric community -- philanthropic community to
acknowledge and to recognize that, collectively, we can
make a difference in Collier County in mental health and
become a shining example, not only through our ability to
address those that are incarcerated or arrested, but to this
entire community, that David Lawrence can represent hope
and dignity to the entire community from the breadth of the
east, to the west, to the north, and to the south of this
community, have a facility that we are all extremely proud
of.
And this is an integral part of that. We must continue
to struggle together to address the needs of this entire
community, those that have and those that have not, because
the dignity of the human mind is something that should
never be underestimated and we should do everything in our
power to improve.
I have a son who's mentally ill. And the efforts that
David Lawrence and others have had and the advances that
have been made in mental health are reflected in David
Lawrence. I would like to think that they are reflected in the
future of David Lawrence as we hold out our hand to Collier
County and say, please partner with us again in the future.
Page 63 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 55
This central receiving facility, for those of you who
haven't analyzed the data, just about everybody that comes
to a central receiving facility is brought by means of public
conveyance. People just don't walk up to it. It's brought by
the Sheriff's Office, by ambulances, by people suffering
from not only alcohol but substance abuse and fentanyl and
the ability to react to those kinds of issues as quickly as
possible.
So public conveyance brings those people to the
facility, which is reflected in the fact that 61 percent of those
brought to the central receiving facility are uninsured.
Twenty-two percent of the people who come to that central
receiving facility are covered by Medicaid which covers less
than half of the cost. Not charges, half of the cost. Four
percent are from Medicare, which in my own experience in
running healthcare facilities for many, many years, doesn't
cover total cost either. It's about 85 percent. The balance of
13 percent are those that do have some insurance.
So when you wonder why we're struggling to come up
with a bottom line, it's because of the generosity of others,
it's because Collier County recognized in your contributions
in what you make and the grants that are made that give us
the ability to provide those kinds of services.
So once again, thank you for your cooperation. Thank
you for your partnership over many, many, many years, 56
years, and in help us do everything we can to bring dignity
to the population of Collier County and the dignity which a
single human mind should be afforded. They deserve
nothing less.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Morton, thank you
Page 64 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 56
very much for your comments. Of particular interest was
the commentary concerning the -- what I would describe as
sort of the elephant in the room, and that is the ongoing
financial obligations of the county as this progresses over
the years. I think that's been addressed, and I want to thank
you for clarifying that. I also thank you for your service to
the medical community over the many, many years.
Are there any questions for Mr. Morton?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Burgess?
MR. BURGESS: Thank you.
I was asked to speak to -- a bit about the scope of
service and some other items, so I'm going to tackle those
one by one, and I think I can get through these pretty
quickly because, again, we've spent a lot of time together
reviewing a lot of this information.
But in specific, on the scope of service, the central
receiving facility is, of course, a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week,
365 days' service provider. We will never close, including
during current recent hurricanes, and we will be available
for the community every day here moving forward as well
as in the central receiving facility.
As we've talked about, there will be 87 beds in the
central receiving facility. They will be consisting of the 45
beds that will be Baker Act and Marchman Act crisis
stabilization beds duly licensed, along with 30 licensed
psychiatric hospital beds that will be able to serve Medicare
patients which, of course, for a long while we've had to send
out of county. They will be able to stay right here and
receive services like all others. And greatly expanded
emergency behavioral health assessment center, ESAC.
Page 65 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 57
Currently at David Lawrence Center, we only have
three emergency behavioral health beds for all of Collier
County, kids and adults, and that will expand in this new
facility to 12.
It acts as the single drop-off location for law
enforcement for individuals that would be under the Baker
Act or the Marchman Act. They will -- it will also assist
those that are walk-in and voluntary admissions to the
facility, and we will make immediately available the crisis
assessment and triage and other related services that are
necessary for anybody that would be struggling with such a
crisis.
We will follow, as we do currently, the transportation
plan that is in place right now between DLC and the Collier
County Sheriff's Office, and that does get updated
periodically per the state requirements, and we will continue
to update that to ensure that there's efficient, effective
transportation of law enforcement and DLC in this
operation, and, of course, we'll comply, as we always have,
with both evidence-based practice and Department of
Children and Family and other related licensure
supports -- requirements.
One of the things that had come up in previous
conversation is wanting to ensure that there were
performance measures that were put into the operating
agreement that -- we have a number that were listed
officially into the operations agreement, and you will note
here that we will be screening. Again, 100 percent of the
individuals that come in will receive applicable clinic
screening for -- to determine what their challenges are and
what the appropriate response is.
Page 66 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 58
We will be making admission of 100 percent of those
that meet the criteria under the Baker Act and 100 percent of
those meeting the criteria for the Marchman Act to be
admitted into the facility, and we will make sure that we
have 95 percent of the individuals -- and, of course, we'll
strive for 100 percent -- but will be -- will be offered an
appointment within seven days for outpatient services if they
don't meet the criteria.
So, of course, importantly, anybody that does meet the
criteria, needs that level of extensive support, would go right
onto the unit. If they don't meet that criteria, we also want
to make sure that they're linked effectively and efficiently
into outpatient care, and we're making that commitment that
they will have an appointment for that outpatient support
within seven business days.
We understand also that there may be individuals that
don't show up for that seven-day appointment or within that
seven-day appointment, and we're making a commitment to
outreach. If they don't show up, we will make sure that we
will attempt to outreach those individuals and offer them
another appointment, again, trying to ensure that we link as
many people as possible into the care that they need.
We have a commitment here that we'll be doing client
satisfaction questionnaires to garner customer or client
experience information. We have a commitment in here
regarding readmission levels within 30 days, and that we'll
be collecting that information and meeting that standard if
not quite a bit better.
Dropping-off time is a commitment that is part of the
state criteria for central receiving facilities is that the law
enforcement will be back rolling again after process within
Page 67 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 59
15 minutes. So we will be collecting that data and being
able to respond to you to let you know how we're doing
relative to that. The key is we want to make sure that people
are transitioned effectively and efficiently so that law
enforcement can kind of get back out into the community.
And then there is a number of annual admissions into the
central receiving facility that is committed to as well.
We also had a number of comments that came in from
the neighborhood during this process, as you are well
familiar. And we made a number of commitments in the
PUD, so we wanted to make sure to re-highlight those to
speak to the fact that we are doing our very best to continue
to be good neighbors in that neighborhood.
One of which is that we will have a security officer that
will be present at all times in the institutional subdistrict.
We will -- if it -- if it works out that the county is able to,
and we believe they can, I'll put a bus shelter right by the
central receiving facility. There is one that's just walking
distance right down from there right now.
We've also agreed that we'll construct a 10-foot wall
that was requested of the neighbors that are on the northern
border and the eastern border of the central receiving
facility. We will create a security plan that will be in
conjunction and collaboration with the Sheriff's Office, and
that will be approved by the Board of County
Commissioners to ensure that we're integrating best practice
around security cameras and other security measures. And
we made a commitment, and we've actually been doing this
for quite a while now, that we are offering transportation
support for all clients that are being discharged if they don't
have a way to be transported to their discharge location.
Page 68 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 60
We've been doing that. We will continue to do that. And
that we made a commitment that we will hold monthly
meetings with the neighborhood so that we can ensure that
we're addressing any issues that they may be having in real
time in a proactive manner.
Currently, we have this number of beds. We thought it
was important for us to review the beds, so I'm going to go
to the next slide pretty quickly here. This just denotes that
we have currently on campus 63 beds. One of the things to
note is this asterisk that after Hurricane Ian, we were granted
an increase in our licensed beds, but it's a temporary waiver.
We only have that until the new central receiving
facility is put in place, and that was because of us having so
many people that were coming to us, and we were
constantly over licensed capacity, so they gave us --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Burgess, on the beds
issue, I know you said you want to kind of go through that
quickly. That's a central issue to a lot of folks here, so I'd
like you to really focus on that and tell us what the actual
numbers are. And I know you're going to do that, but don't
run through this quickly.
MR. BURGESS: Got it. Okay.
Yeah, so this slide was really just to make sure -- to
point out the fact that we do have temporary licenses that are
in place right now.
So currently you'll see that we have 30 adult crisis
stable -- crisis stabilization beds effective 2022; however,
we were able to get that increased another 15 as a temporary
waiver. That's only available until the new central receiving
facility is available, okay.
Now, this slide is really what gets into the meat of the
Page 69 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 61
beds, and that's why I wanted to -- this is the one I wanted to
maybe spend a little bit more time on.
So basically, what you'll see is what this all will look
like. I know there's been questions, what's going to be at the
new central receiving facility campus, the CCBHC, what is
going to remain at the David Lawrence Center's location,
and what's that going to mean as far as total bed capacity?
Because there's been some question and comments,
confusion related to we're really not picking up many beds
in this process, but we are clearly picking up significant
beds.
So when you look at the central receiving facility,
which is in that green -- in those green boxes, you'll see
that's the 87 beds that we continue to talk about. That's
going to greatly increase our adult services.
You'll see the 12 beds there are the adult emergency
service -- emergency service assessment center. That's the
emergency behavioral health room, if you will, for all of
Collier County. Currently that's three, and that's going to go
to 12.
As I mentioned before, we have a crisis stabilization
unit. The adult beds in our community, we have 30, but that
was increased to 45 temporarily. We're going to go -- we'll
have the 45 beds, plus the Medicare beds in-patient, plus the
acute in-patient hospital beds, so that's 75 beds.
So the license that we have -- that we had, which was
30, temporarily increased, that's going to go to 75. So you
can see we're greatly increasing the adult in-patient capacity
for psychiatric needs. And, again, those will be duly
licensed, available for folks that are under the Baker Act or
under the Marchman Act.
Page 70 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 62
And then what will stay on the DLC location is actually
going to be an increase in beds as well. You'll see that we
have 78 beds that are identified there. So all the way over to
the far right you'll see the 87 beds in the central receiving
facility, plus the 78 beds, gets us to 165 total beds when
everything is completely built out.
What's going to stay on the DLC campus are programs
and services that the commissioners have also identified as
major needs and things that we need to be working on in our
community, one of which is we're going to have increased
beds for children. Right now we've only got 15 beds for all
of the kids in Collier County. In the new iteration on the
new -- on the campus -- the current campus will go to 30
beds and will increase to have its own emergency services
department, which will be six beds. So that's an additional
36 beds right there that we know are desperately needed for
our kids.
The additional beds are going to be related to future
substance-use disorder beds, and we know that one of the
other issues that's been brought up is if somebody's in an
acute care setting, like the central receiving facility, they're
there for three days or they're there for five days, they need
to have someplace to be discharged for longer-term support
and care. Not everything can be solved from a detox or a
Marchman Act circumstance within three to five days.
They'll be able to go -- we'll have more beds available for,
like, 28-day longer-term programming on the DLC campus.
So that's where those total beds increase on both campuses
significantly to get us to 165 total beds when you add them
all up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There had been some
Page 71 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 63
rumor, perhaps, or misunderstanding that there would be
shutting down beds and replacing them with the beds in the
new facility. But is it accurate to say that today you have 78
beds; is that what you have on campus now?
MR. BURGESS: We have --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Am I reading that
correctly?
MR. BURGESS: We have -- actually, what do we
have? Nancy --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Go back a slide.
MR. BURGESS: Go back one slide; 63.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You have 63 beds today.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the -- you're
not -- you're not going to reduce that number with
supplanting them with beds in the new facility?
MR. BURGESS: No. The beds that are going to be
available that are going to be in the new facility will all
be -- we will continue to have the same beds that we have on
campus and expand that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There had been some
confusion about that, and I just wanted you to clarify it. So
thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, Commissioner
Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But if I remember
correctly, you said that's primary, the 63. The minute that
facility opens, we subtract 15.
MR. BURGESS: Well, yeah. The license that we
have -- well, I think -- I want to make sure that we're clear.
Page 72 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 64
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So clarify that, because
it sounded --
MR. BURGESS: The 45 beds that we have right now
is a temporary license. That's for both adult and children.
The adults are going to all go over into the new facility. The
children are going to stay on the main campus. So we only
have the 45-bed capacity licensed right now because we're
going to be creating more adult services through the central
receiving facility.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I guess the answer to
the Chairman's question is, then, what's the actual beds right
now? Not talking about the granted 15 because of the
hurricane situation.
MR. BURGESS: Well, it would be 48 --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MR. BURGESS: -- that are not underneath the
temporary waiver.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
Thank you. Mr. Burgess, on the next slide, we have 87
beds at the central receiving facility. Of those 87, is
any -- are any beds going to be transferred from another
location into that to make that 87 beds?
MR. BURGESS: The -- the detox component that we
have right now on our current campus, that is something that
is under the Marchman Act. So those services will be
provided under the central receiving facility.
COMMISSIONER HALL: My question: Of the 87
beds, are any going to be transferred in to make that 87 up?
I'm looking for the net increase in beds for the taxpayers.
Page 73 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 65
I'm looking -- are you going to have 87 brand-new beds, or
are there going to be some beds transferred from another
location into the central facility -- central receiving facility
to make up the 87 beds?
I had heard -- and it could be misinformation -- that 27
beds were going to come into the central receiving facility
from another location that David Lawrence Center operates,
for a net increase of 60 beds. I just want to make sure if
that's true or false.
MR. BURGESS: No. The number of beds that are
going to be in the new facility, that 87 beds -- currently we
have three emergency services beds that are available. That
will -- that service will now be provided at the new facility.
The 18 beds of detox, that service is going to be provided
within the central receiving facility. So we're not technically
losing beds. We're providing the services in the new
facility.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm still not -- I'm still not
clear on the answer. I don't care what you're doing with
each bed, you know, whether you do an adult bed or a
Marchman bed or Medicare in-patient. I don't care what the
specific thing is. If we -- if we go for this central receiving
facility, are there going to be 87 brand-new beds without
causing any -- any transfers among the David Lawrence
Center facility to obtain those beds?
MR. BURGESS: This is Nancy Dauphinais. She's our
chief operating officer, and I just want to make sure we give
her an opportunity to try to answer that question.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think the simple
question is, if I'm understanding it is, you have a certain
number of beds today --
Page 74 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 66
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- twelve of them, or
whatever the number was, are temporary, and they go away
because of the license, so we don't count those. So you have
a certain number of beds today. That's number's X. And
then you're going to have new beds in the facility. That will
be Y. Are the total beds going forward X plus Y I think is
really what the question is. Are you losing beds?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: What I believe we're talking
about -- again, Nancy Dauphinais, for the record, chief
operating officer -- is that we have 30 adult beds now which
will become 75 beds in the new adult unit. The new central
receiving facility will have 75 Baker Act receiving beds.
We only have 30 right now when we started this process.
Three ESAC beds now become 12 ESAC beds in the
new building. That was always the plan was we didn't have
enough adult beds, so we're going to move -- create a big
adult unit there, leave the kids on the main unit, and have
room for expansion on the original campus. Does that make
sense? I don't know. No?
COMMISSIONER HALL: What's the net increase in
beds?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Hundred and two between the
two campuses. A hundred and sixty-five beds between the
two campuses. And after --
COMMISSIONER HALL: What is the net increase in
beds in the new central receiving facility?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: That would be 57, I guess. I
mean, if you think, we have 30 and three now, and we're
going to 75 and 12.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Sixty-seven-ish.
Page 75 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 67
MS. DAUPHINAIS: I mean, it's -- the hard thing is
that you can't do everything in the current beds that they're
going to be able to do in the new beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's why I was trying to
simplify this. And that's why I wanted you to spend some
time on that, because I knew this was going to be a big
issue. And, again, I'm going to repeat myself, and I hate to
do that because it irritates me when other people repeat
themselves.
But we have a certain number of beds today, okay. We
have a certain number of beds today. Now, 12 of those
disappear, okay. So we're not going to count those 12, so
delete those. You have a certain number of beds minus
those 12 today. When you open up the new facility, you're
going to have some additional beds.
And I think the question simply is, between X that you
have today minus the 12 and the Y that you're creating in the
new facility, are you going to have X plus Y beds, or is there
going to be some reduction in the number? We're not
concerned about the use. I think Commissioner Hall said he
was not concerned about the use. Just looking at the
number. That's all.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: So just to be clear, you want to
know, on our current campus, the number of beds we have
and what will be on the new campus? Forty-eight on our
current campus now before we build the new building. The
new building has 87 beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Understood. Now you've
got 48 on your campus now. When the new building opens,
how many will you have on your campus?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: We're going to renovate to make
Page 76 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 68
78 beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So we're not losing
beds by building --
MS. DAUPHINAIS: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- this facility?
MR. BURGESS: We're increasing beds.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: We're increasing in both
locations.
MR. BURGESS: And we're increasing in both.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, does
that answer your question?
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's all I was asking,
what was the net increase in beds.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: A hundred and forty-eight.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And maybe,
and -- that was a -- that was a fine explanation, I think. It
was a bit hard for me, because your previous slide -- go to
that previous slide -- showed 63 beds up from 48 beds based
upon a temporary permit.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So we're up here
trying to do math, and then you go to the next slide. It
shows 78 beds. We're not seeing 78 beds. You just got
done telling us that 63 are there now and 12 of them, or so,
are going to go away with this temporary permit. So I
was -- we weren't hearing the redo of the current facility for
the expansion of the operations within the current facility.
As Commissioner Saunders has shared, it's been
represented to many of us that the beds that you have in the
current facility are going to the new facility and there's not
Page 77 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 69
the represented net increase in the beds that we were
thinking. So that explanation got better, for me, anyway.
MR. BURGESS: I apologize. I think the temporary
licensure might have been the element that threw things off.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, there's 63 and
78 on one slide. You have 63 today, and then here you're
saying you have 78. And so we weren't -- I wasn't -- I
wasn't seeing the math.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the good news is, the
math was just pluses and minus. There was no real
complicated math here.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I didn't have to take
my shoes off.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we have Kristi
Sonntag here who has worked on this, even before central
receiving facility. So if you have something you want to
add to this to help clarify, Kristi.
MS. SONNTAG: Kristi Sonntag, Community and
Human Services director, for the record.
Mr. Burgess, I just want to clarify for the
commissioners, you currently have 30 adult CSU beds,
correct? Take out the --
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: -- the temporary license.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: And those 30 beds, correct me if I'm
wrong, are moving from the Bathey Lane, the main campus,
to the new structure, correct?
MR. BURGESS: Correct, yes.
MS. SONNTAG: And you currently have three ESAC
Page 78 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 70
beds?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: And you're going to
increase -- you're moving those three over, so that's a net
increase of eight, so that brings us to 12.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: And the 15 detox beds you have
now, you're moving those as well.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: Okay. So you're moving 48 beds.
MR. BURGESS: Right. And that's because those --
MS. SONNTAG: And then you'll have 87?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: Okay. Does that answer your
question, Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And then they're
building new beds to replace --
MS. SONNTAG: They're building new beds on the
main campus.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And at that point we're
only talking about use. We're not talking about numbers.
MS. SONNTAG: Yeah, right.
MR. BURGESS: That's exactly correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Let me put
this in plain math, all right. Okay. Here's what we're
asking. You've answered it, but, you know, we're trying to
get -- first of all, this is so disappointing, and I'm going to
have more to say afterwards.
But if we build 87 beds, okay, and I'm -- and
I'll -- we've had some funny math here, so I'm going to just
Page 79 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 71
use some, you know, set numbers. If we build 87 beds and
then you take 30 that are in another facility and close those
down and then move those over, then we haven't increased
by 87 beds. You've taken 30 of our 87, and so that's the
delta. That's what Commissioner Hall's trying to get at.
That's what we're all trying to get at, and everyone's tap
dancing around it, okay.
We're trying to figure, did we build a facility that added
87 beds to DLC? That answer is no, okay. And I'm the
biggest supporter of this, but I'm telling you we're not
building the International Space Station here.
This has come before the commissioners 17 times. We
should all be embarrassed about this, embarrassed with the
huge need. And I'll have more to say here.
But to get to this math equation -- okay. I think we all
took Algebra I. If I have a building with 87 beds and
you -- I won't use the word -- steal. You acquire 30 of those
that were in another building to move them over, then the
building we just built that has 87 beds in it doesn't have 87.
It has 87 minus 30 because the 30 just moved over from
Building A to Building B.
I'm not saying that's a huge showstopper, but one of the
things we're trying to get at -- and Commissioner Hall
eloquently started this question -- is what are we providing
the taxpayers? And if alls we're doing is a little bit of a shell
game with some of the beds -- and it's all needed, so
nobody's sitting here saying this is -- you know, the sky is
falling. But in the end when some people think DLC is
staying exactly where it is, and we're building a facility to
increase 87 beds, we're not. We're building 87 beds and
then you're moving some of yours, you know, over there,
Page 80 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 72
and then maybe we're going to have, like, 50 more beds than
what you had previously.
I mean, I know I'm rounding up the numbers, but I'm
pretty certain, with the meetings I've had with our County
Manager, with our Clerk of Courts -- I mean, this isn't
complicated here.
And everyone's trying to kind of sort of make it sound
like, "Well, the delta is a positive. It's a positive," but it's
not the full positive. And I'm not saying that that -- like I
said, that's a showstopper. I understand what you're doing to
move things around to increase -- you know, have a much
more cohesive and a better flow and all of that.
But we also don't want to cloud this and make it sound
like we're building a facility that's adding 87 beds. It is, but
then before the first person walks in the door, you know,
DLC's going to walk over and put pillows on 30 of the 87
beds, and they're already spoken for because you're moving
them from another facility.
I mean, am I correct? It's -- it's plain math.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. I mean, the math is it's a net
pickup in all operations.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I got that, but it's not
a net pickup of 87. Yes or no?
MR. BURGESS: That's correct, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, I know. And
that's what we're all trying to get to. It's like as soon as the
87 beds come online, 30 of them are already spoken for
because you're moving them over from another facility.
And like I said, I'm not saying that -- I'm a huge supporter of
this, but we're also trying to figure out what the net number
is, the net new number. I'm speaking. I'm not done.
Page 81 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 73
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I wanted to clarify
something for you, I mean, because you asked a question.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: He answered it, but he
didn't answer the question you asked, so...
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Somebody answer it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a very important one,
because I think you said you've got 87 beds now, and you've
got 78 beds now, and when you open up you're not going to
have 165. You're not going to have that 78.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: He said yes, but what he
was saying is, yes, we are going to have the 78 beds, and we
are going to have the 87.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So I just want to make
sure you guys are communicating.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, we're not,
because I also here within the answer that beds that are in
another facility are going to be shut down and moved, and
those beds will be moved over, and they will be mixed into
the 87, correct? I mean, I've heard that three or four times.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. I mean, so the whole premise
of a central receiving facility is to have one site that's
providing those like services that are necessary for adults
that are in crisis, Baker Act or Marchman Act. So we need
to move our current bed availability --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Totally get that.
MR. BURGESS: -- to the new site.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Totally get that.
MR. BURGESS: So you're absolutely correct, it's
Page 82 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 74
going to have 87 beds in this facility, of which we're already
operating 30 of those like beds.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right, bingo.
There's some involved in this discussion, though, that I think
are assuming that the 87 -- nothing else moves. Everything
is static at DLC, and then we cut the ribbon on this new
building that has 87 more beds. And that's true, but then,
like you said, you're about to move some over and acquire
instantaneously the 87, which means the delta at the end of
what we're increasing bed-wise isn't 87. It's less than that as
far as new beds. Beds that you never had. And like you
said, it's about 30 that you're moving over, because like you
said, you're trying to get everything under one roof
correctly.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we've got some
in these discussions that say we're building a facility. It's
got 87 new beds. Add it to what they already have. It's a
huge increase in the beds. It is an increase, but it's not -- it's
not an increase of 87 brand-new beds that you've never had.
It's going to be a mix.
MR. BURGESS: Correct. And I completely agree
with that. I think it's really important, though, to state right
after that, though, it is a cumulative net increase across both.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, absolutely, yeah.
MR. BURGESS: So I don't want people to leave
thinking that it's not a pickup in support and services and
beds for our community. It's a significant pickup. It's just a
little bit of a realignment based on what makes sense from a
central receiving provision standpoint in operating those
beds. It wouldn't make sense for us to try to keep the 30
Page 83 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 75
beds.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But it's not a pickup
87 in the end. It's not. It's --
MR. BURGESS: Not --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- 87 new ones, but
then --
MR. BURGESS: Not in that building --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BURGESS: -- but when you look at both -- both
campuses, it's a huge pickup.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, of course,
yeah. I mean, we're building a new building. It better be a
pickup.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Nancy Dauphinais. I just want to
make one clarification. The current Baker Act unit that we
have on the Bathey Lane campus that has existed there for
decades is a 30-bed license for kids and adults. It's one
shared license.
So when that -- that means -- we always meant to keep
the kids on the main campus. So all 30 beds, that's a shared
adult and kid license. So it's not a 30-bed adult going to the
new building. It's a flexible license. So on any given day,
we may have had 10 kids, 20 adults. It's flexible, but that
means it's not a full 30 adult beds that we're picking up from
the main campus and moving over. It's a shared license, and
it will become fully adults on the new campus, and the
children have to remain.
So I think it's important to understand that the children
is still part of that bed count, the children's unit.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But how many beds
in your current facility, basically, get loaded up into a
Page 84 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 76
moving van and move away after we cut the ribbon on this
building that has 87? I mean, I'm trying to put this in third
grade terms.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: If we moved 30 over there, there
would be zero kids beds on the main campus, on the Bathey
Lane campus.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right, yeah.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: So we could move 30, but then
you would have zero kids. So usually we had about a 19
and 11 split, so we would probably move 19 and keep 11,
but we don't have to do that because we have that unit
available to immediately become a full kids unit.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I just -- my last
comment will be, I think the initial thought, you know, 17
meetings ago was we were going to build a building that
was going to have 87, 100 beds. I mean, the number
has -- kept changing, and you weren't changing anything on
your side. You weren't -- you weren't moving over -- you
know, maybe there was some onesie, twosies, but it seems
like that number is growing, and it's chipping away at the
87, which I think previously had been a bigger number.
Like I said, this facility's not getting any bigger, and it's not
getting any cheaper as we continue to, you know, kick this
decision around, but -- okay. I got what I needed. I'll have
more to say after.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, thank you,
Commissioner LoCastro. That helped clarify things.
I guess my question, coming back around -- because
one of the things that hasn't been discussed is the expansion
of your existing facility, because that's coming in to get to
Page 85 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 77
the 165. Where you spread them out and who they go for is
an entirely separate discussion.
When we come into the operational aspects, and as
Commissioner Solis so adeptly put out a long time ago, he
was afflicted with that mental issue called a law degree. I'm
not. And when I was -- when I was reading the operating
agreement, it didn't really talk -- you were -- you were
funding-wise going to be looking at the similar -- same
revenue stream that you currently receiving from grants and
state and federal and county funding. And the operating
revenue you were going to -- was going to be supported over
here in the new facility with no additional ask.
The operating agreement that I read really only
revolves around the new facility because that's what you're
leasing from us.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so how -- is
there sufficient management with regard to the operating
expenses and those disbursals between the two facilities?
Because you've almost got an equivalent -- equivalent
amount: 78 in the existing facility by the time you're done
moving and rehabbing and so on, and then an additional 87.
The operating agreement that I was reading specifically tied
into the new facility. Could you elaborate a little bit on
that?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, yeah. So I think what you're
alluding to is the fact that, from an accounting standpoint,
that we have every -- that we have separation from an
accounting of the operations of the central receiving facility
compared to the other forms of the organization.
And I can say emphatically yes, we have the
Page 86 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 78
capability -- we've been doing it for many, many years -- of
separating everything by department. So we actually have
45 different programs at DLC. So we run accounting for
every one of those departments. So we have an -- you
know, the opportunity to slice and dice all of the operational
expenses and revenue by department and will have a
separate, you know, I guess, tab on our spreadsheet that
would be specific to the central receiving facility of which
we've talked, you know, with the Clerk and with the County
Manager that that is, you know, certainly something that we
can go over with regularity with their teams as they would
like to do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I guess -- and it's
hard. This is a terribly emotional subject, and you don't
want to -- you don't want to -- as Mr. Morton said at the
beginning, these are human beings. These are lives that
we're dealing with every single day, and you don't want to
correlate this to the bottom line and the bottom dollar, but
you're effectively looking at more than doubling the bed
capacities that you currently have with no ask for additional
revenue, and then there is an additional 87 beds plus/minus
coming into the new facility without an additional ask for
any more money. Although, when I read the operating
agreement, it said if you didn't have enough money, you
were going to cut the LOS. The level of service was going
to be reduced to accommodate that if the revenue streams
from alternative sources, federal, state, and then ultimately,
the General Fund weren't attainable.
MR. BURGESS: That was -- that was introduced as an
option. It's certainly not an option that we want to ever have
to use, but we believe that we're going to be able to secure
Page 87 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 79
the funds that are not going to make that necessary.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. I just
have a tendency to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
But when I was -- when I was looking at that, that's multiple
times that I've seen that come from your organization with
regard to those operations -- potential. I want to say
potential -- but potential operational deficiencies.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
Okay. I think what we're struggling with here -- we all
agree the subject here and the importance of a central
receiving facility and a behavioral health facility in Collier
County is unmatched. It's that important, just like
Mr. Morton said. We're not disputing that.
What we're trying to wrap our head around is the
expenditure of public money to get to the expansion that we
need and that we want. Originally, we started out with
$26 million at 120 beds. Life happened. That went away.
We approved a $56 million surtax maximum spend, but
all of a sudden the beds went from 120 to, like, a net 60 to
67, whatever the numbers were. That's just -- that's a lot of
money for a small increase.
Then we take a look at the pro forma, and we're losing
over 80 grand a month in the beginning, and that -- you
know, yes -- yes, the risk is on y'all, and that's -- you know,
that's all in the operating agreement, but I -- I have -- I don't
want to set this thing up to fail.
If everything goes south, at the end of the day the
taxpayers wind up with a $56 million facility on five acres
over there that we don't have any idea what we would do if
Page 88 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 80
you don't -- I'm talking about if everything goes bad. If
things don't go well, you can't exercise your option to
purchase it and just things go bad.
I don't want to set us up with that. I want to feel good
about going forward, and I'm trying to get there. I'm trying
my hardest to get there.
Father Orsi, I'm really trying to get there.
FATHER ORSI: We'll talk.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
But I think you can hear the concern from all of us
about that. What is the net increase of services? What are
we going to gain? I think we've had a good -- a good hint
about the renovation from the existing building. That makes
me feel better. But that's not part of our $56 million
expenditure. That's something else that will just -- that's a
bonus for us. That's not something that we're taking part of.
So I really do want to feel better about where we're
going from here with building a new facility for the
$56 million and getting a good grasp of what the actual
increase of beds and services is for adults and for children,
and I'm not there yet.
MR. BURGESS: Okay. I'm -- I want to help you get
there. So what would be helpful in that regard? I tried -- I
tried to go through the beds. If it will be helpful to go
through that again, we can do that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Commissioner LoCastro
said it in addition to what I was asking. I just want to know
for $56 million, what's the net increase of services and beds
that we're gaining? I don't care about what comes from
here, what comes from there, what's going to renovate and
increase over there. I don't care about any of that. For
Page 89 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 81
$56 million, what are we getting?
MR. BURGESS: You're talking about between the two
campuses?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm talking about for the
central receiving facility that we're going to build
56 -- spend $56 million to build that facility. I don't care
what the other services are. What are we getting for 56
million?
MR. BURGESS: So there will be 87 beds in that
facility, and then if we're talking about having to subtract
because of some of the beds that are going to be coming
over, as Nancy mentioned, we have a 30-bed license. That's
partially children, partially adult. If we said 20 of those
beds, 19 of those beds are going to come over that are adult
beds, then it would be 87 less 19.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So it would be a
67 -- 67-bed increase -- net increase in services?
MR. BURGESS: If you're subtracting what's coming
over.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's the question that I
was asking. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you,
Chairman.
We all got quite a few calls from people of significant
stature in the community and people who are interested in
this facility being done correctly. The one
miscommunication at least I had having conversations with
a few people is this can be built anywhere, okay. I'm a huge
supporter of the right spot is DLC, and I voted yes every
single time even when it hasn't been unanimous. But the
Page 90 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 82
clock is starting to tick, and I'm sitting here really
disappointed that we're still not there yet.
And I can tell you, this -- you know, when some people
said to me, I can't believe the commissioners, with such a
great need in mental health, are going to let this facility
evaporate. And the reality is, it's not -- it's going to be built
somewhere. It doesn't have to be on DLC property. And if
we can't come to an agreement -- if it seems like the
numbers are off, if it seems like this is a better deal for
DLC -- and I'm not -- this is me just talking from the
conversations I've had -- then that's what's going to make
this thing turn into a different deal with somebody else.
So I think, you know, we have limited time here. And
in my initial closing comment right now, the person I'd
really like to hear from who's been in the middle of all the
meetings -- and I spoke with Ms. Patterson a couple days
ago about speaking after you-all did -- I'd really like to hear
from the county. I mean we did a bit, but Ms. Patterson has
been our -- our five-star general at all the meetings. She's
been the one talking to us and making a lot of concerning
comments that have us up here trying to make sure we do
the right thing.
So, you know, Ms. Patterson, I mean, I go over to you.
You've got a microphone. We talked about me calling on
you and saying can you give us your perspective of why
we're not at an agreement yet and what the main concerns
are of the county so we can wrap this up a bit and see if
we're close and we just need another couple of weeks in
negotiation, or if you've got bigger concerns than that,
because we haven't been in these discussions the way you
have. So I think it's great to go on the record, and you said
Page 91 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 83
you would, and I said I would call on you, so I think this is a
good time for you to give us your summation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, thank you.
So we pushed onto this agenda specifically to give us
another meeting if we needed it. Now, we have been
meeting regularly with the folks from David Lawrence as
well as the community to get our arms around 17
meetings -- if that's the number's -- worth of comments, and
the Board has become increasingly direct about your
concerns and your support for the -- for mental health and
for the central receiving facility but also the questions that
remain unanswered.
So we're much closer on these agreements than we
were even a few weeks ago, but there still remain those
questions -- and we've articulated this to the David
Lawrence folks -- of things that need to be answered on the
record so that the taxpayers, the people that paid into
the -- that voted for and then paid into this surtax understand
how this project has evolved. Because it did go forward
under one set of assumptions, as many of these projects did,
and because of circumstances not only with land use and the
surrounding neighborhood, but also we had a pandemic that
has wildly affected pricing and all those things that get to us
now, essentially, a 60- or 70-bed facility for $56 million
versus 120-bed facility for $25 million -- just using round
numbers -- from where we started at a concept to where we
are now. And so that's an answer that we owe to the
taxpayers; otherwise, it just looks like we're really bad at
doing our job.
So we've talked a lot with the David Lawrence folks
Page 92 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 84
about that and about squaring up the beds, as we've had this
very confusing conversation: Where are all of these beds?
And I think to simplify it, what we have is we have the
central receiving facility and all of the beds and concepts
that will be there as well as an expansion of children's beds
or beds that will be able to be used to a greater extent for
children. That, outside of the purview of the surtax, is what,
I think, is starting to confuse this a little bit.
We are receiving less beds than we initially thought
when we offered this up as a surtax project, but as many
[sic] beds as now can be placed on this site due to height
limitations and the zoning.
We are now going to receive beds that are coming over
because they fit into the central receiving facility, so that has
to be considered when looking at that 87 beds. So that kind
of rounds out the conversation about the beds.
Regarding these agreements, we've worked
extensively -- and hats off to the David Lawrence folks and
the staff for working on this, but the big question that you
asked us is what is this going -- and we're going to get to
this probably when your conversation goes -- what is this
going to cost the county? Because there was questions
about the shortfalls -- that big number shortfall. We know
what we provide now for the current operations. The county
needed surety, the taxpayers needed surety that we weren't
going into something that we couldn't even get our arms
around as far as a liability to the taxpayers.
So there are certain limitations that are placed in this
agreement that don't stop David Lawrence from coming
back to ask the Board of County Commissioners. They have
to do certain things and provide certain information, but
Page 93 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 85
you're going into this knowing that we're showing a shortfall
in that pro forma. And not to say that things couldn't
change, but they certainly could change either way, for the
better or for the worse. But the Board needs to -- and the
taxpayers need to understand that we're coming into this
with a pro forma that does have a shortfall.
That having been said, we know the need is there. The
taxpayers voted for a project to be able to get after that need.
Does that project have to be built on this property? That
was a decision of the Board and prior boards. Could we
place this facility elsewhere? Yes. We have been very
direct with David Lawrence as well that we wouldn't be
doing our jobs if in the background here we didn't continue
to look at what all of our options were, because it could be
the Board's decision, it could be David Lawrence's decision,
but we owe an answer to the taxpayer about how we're
going to get after mental health.
And so Commissioner LoCastro is correct, if you told
us to go and find another location to build this, that is what
we would do. And we have been actively looking at
appropriate locations, not only on campus but off of campus.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So I just -- can I have
just two follow-up questions with you?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And one of them
might be for Mr. Burgess, so I'll ask the one that I think is
maybe more for you, Ms. Patterson.
This shortfall, should this be built on the David
Lawrence Center site that we're concerned about, do you
feel like the same exact shortfall would exist no matter
where we put it, or it would be significantly reduced if we
Page 94 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 86
found another location? And we know where some of the
locations were. We've talked about it before. And there's
even been possibly some new ones that have popped up. I'm
not holding you to an exact number, but would this shortfall
be significantly reduced in some of the options other than
DLC?
MS. PATTERSON: It would depend on what type of
partner you had in that project. Obviously, the county is not
going to run a mental health facility. That's -- we've been
working hard to get away from doing things that we're not
good at, and I would definitely put running a mental health
facility into that category. So you would need to find a
provider.
Now, we don't know what that would look like or who
is out there because this deal, when it was -- when it was
done, this arrangement was not an arrangement that arose
out of a solicitation. So we don't know what other providers
would be out there or what their mix of beds -- and I'm
looking at Kristi -- and the types of payment that they
may -- they may look at, if they are a not-for-profit versus a
for-profit. So there's a lot of unanswered questions. And a
lot of that would have to deal with how that solicitation was
structured and what type of arrangement we entered into
with a different provider.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So with what we
know now, the significant shortfall we're all concerned
about really isn't something that we can use as a detriment to
the DLC deal, because it could exist with anybody, right?
So even though it's significant, it's not that DLC specifically
is creating the shortfall and everywhere else it would be
different, correct? Because we haven't done that --
Page 95 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 87
MS. PATTERSON: We don't know the answer to that
question. It does beg the question of the solicitation. And
we don't know what the outcome of that would be. You get
a lot of interest in some solicitations, and you get very little
interest in others, and it's really a product of what's out there
in the market.
Are there other mental health providers? I'm certain
that there are. Would they be interested in this concept?
We wouldn't know unless we were to solicit it. So to some
extent, there's risk on either side.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And that's where I've
said we should exhaust all options with DLC before we
magically go somewhere else.
But my last question, and maybe it's for you,
Mr. Burgess, or somebody on your team. I understand the
moving of the beds, but one thing that might get a couple of
commissioners here a little bit more positive about this is we
all want maximum new beds. We want the delta to be as big
as possible.
I understand the cohesion, and, wow, we're going to
have this new center, and now we can move stuff around
and everything. But the negative by some people up here
and with good reason is, "Wow, we built this new center
with 87 beds," but then you immediately do some
restructuring of the facility you currently have and you get
to eat up some of that -- those beds, so it makes the delta a
lot smaller.
I realize the advantage of that, but do you have to -- is
it a requirement for you to change anything? Do you have a
building that's collapsing or falling down? I realize moving
the kids and the cohesion, but let's say you did nothing, and
Page 96 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 88
the taxpayers built a facility that had 87 beds in it and it was
a delta of 87, is that possible, or this moving of beds is a
requirement by DLC because it -- it makes the set up better?
But also, too, you have to realize it's starting to become a
detriment, because initially it was over 100 beds. Then, you
know, due to time and costs and everything, it's whittling
down.
You're chipping into the 87 even more with your
restructuring of the beds you have in other buildings, and
that's a negative for some people up here, and that's why I
think you might not get all the votes that you want. Do you
have to move those beds as some sort of requirement?
MR. BURGESS: I don't -- is there some sort of
requirement to do it? From a state standpoint, I would say I
don't think there's a requirement. There's definitely a strong
suggestion and recommendation to do it. Because the whole
premise and the definition of a centralized receiving facility
is to have one spot that people would go to for those related
supports.
So it's -- it's -- I would put it higher than being highly
recommended. It --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, I get that. I
just think in the initial discussions 16 meetings ago, that
wasn't talked about aggressively enough. So you have five
commissioners up here that have seen the delta of beds we're
adding, the positive delta slowly decrease, and then some of
us might feel, me maybe even included, that we're
artificially decreasing it even -- even more. And that's not
the right word because, like you said, all those who want to
see this be the best facility might strongly suggest the move.
The issue, though, is, is it -- it makes the delta of beds
Page 97 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 89
we're adding even lower than it was when it was 100 and
something, and so that's when we sit up here doing the math
trying to get the best bang for our buck, and it's starting to
feel less of a bang for some -- some commissioners up here.
And, you know, we're trying to -- trying to come to a
collective decision here. So -- I mean, but I hear your
answer so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to have to
take a break here in just a moment.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Just real quick. Thank
you, Chairman.
I just -- you know, we've been going around and around
trying to figure out exactly what kind of delta we're going to
end up with in the positive. And I understand what you're
saying about the central receiving. You don't want to have
people going to two different locations for the same service,
especially if it's a Marchman or Baker Act, something like
that, so...
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's understandable. But
I just want to shed a little light, because I know we're talking
numbers of bed, and those are small numbers. I want to talk
about the big numbers.
I mean, this is just rough estimates. You're talking,
even at 87 beds -- let's say that was a delta, 87 -- it's about
580-some-thousand dollars per bed that the county's going
to spend. Now, if you take out the 20 or 30 or 15, whatever
these numbers we've been bouncing around, we're looking at
close to a million dollars a bed for this facility.
And I know any -- Mr. Morton, you've held people's,
Page 98 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 90
you know, portfolios and worked on those type of things,
and if you had a client, I don't know if you would
recommend that to a client because I don't know if that's -- I
don't know. It's just a hard number to wrap my head around,
I mean, how we got there, and it's just -- it's reality right
now. That is the price tag. Close to a million-dollars-a-bed
increase for the citizens of Collier County, their money to be
spent, so...
MR. BURGESS: Well, I would just mention that we
do have the folks from DeAngeles Diamond that have done,
you know, comparable construction estimates and
assessments of comparable types of buildings to be built. I
know they're here if the construction question is --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think we're going to go
to a break. I don't really need -- I just wanted to kind of
shed some light on -- not just talking numbers of beds.
We're talking about real dollars that the citizens are
spending on this, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We're going to
take a break in just a moment. We'll break until 11 o'clock.
But let me -- let me suggest that there's a couple things that
need to be clarified when we come back.
Number one, the net increase in beds. That seems to
me to be very simple. We have a net increase of 87 beds.
Now, we're moving some of the use of the beds into that
facility, but we're not eliminating the beds that exist.
They're going to be used for something else. You're going
to need to explain that. To me it seems pretty simple, but
that's being missed here, I think, somehow.
And in addition, the facility itself -- and you can clarify
this when we come back -- I assume it's more than just the
Page 99 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 91
beds. I assume that there's a -- there are other facilities in
this thing. It's not like a hospital where a hospital, you
know, if you pay a million dollars per bed, that's probably
pretty reasonable. But we're not really paying a million
dollars for each of the beds here, because there's more in this
facility than just the beds. But I think those two things need
to be clarified. We're going to take a break until 11 o'clock.
(A recess was had from 10:46 a.m. to 11:11 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Ladies and
gentlemen, if you'll take your seats, we're going to proceed.
I'm going to ask Mr. Burgess, if he's still in the
audience -- he may have -- he may be seeking out
psychiatric care somewhere right now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's out there.
They're in a huddle. I think they needed until 11:15 for that
huddle.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I just want to ask him a
quick question, and then we'll get back.
Mr. Burgess, as you're approaching the microphone, in
terms of the number of beds you have now and the number
you're going to have at the conclusion of this -- I'm going to
use this one example -- you've got one facility that has 30
beds in it that are kids' beds and adult beds. You're going to
move all the adult uses of those beds over to the new
facility. What's going to happen with those beds that would
have been occupied by adults?
I'm assuming that those 30 beds will continue to be 30
beds used for kids. And when you finish eating your lunch,
let them know -- no, I'm asking Mr. Burgess, I'm sorry. I
don't want to be rude, but I'm asking Mr. Burgess. He's the
Page 100 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 92
CEO there, and I want to get total clarification where there's
no confusion.
MR. BURGESS: Correct. Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So you got 30
beds right now. Those 30 beds, once this new facility's
open, what's going to happen just with those 30 beds?
MR. BURGESS: Those beds can continue to be
providing Baker Act services.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I didn't ask you what they
can be used for. I asked you what --
MR. BURGESS: They will be. They will be used
for --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a little different than
"they can be used." So they will be used. That's a
commitment that you're making?
MR. BURGESS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, there are other bed
uses that you're moving to the new facility. What are the
other bed uses you're moving to the new facility? You're
moving those adult beds from those 30, but those will
continue to be kids' beds. What other uses are you moving
over?
MR. BURGESS: We're not moving any --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is that it?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, right. We will be operating 87
beds all dedicated to Baker Act and Marchman Act. We are
not removing --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's not what I'm
asking -- I want to make sure we understand that 78 -- or the
78 beds you have right now, those 78 beds are going to
continue to be operated -- those 30 beds will be kids' beds.
Page 101 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 93
What other beds where the use might change, if there are
any? If those are the only ones, that's fine.
MR. BURGESS: The kids' beds are -- we'll be
providing the Baker Act support for kids on the main
campus, yes, and you're -- there's not going to be anything
that's going to change other -- one question that came up
was related to detox services. That's going to have to be
handled in the current building, the new building.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. So other
than the 30 beds, what we were talking about, there are no
other changes in beds?
MR. BURGESS: We have an emergency services
department on the current campus that moves into the new
building. That's three beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. What happens to
those three beds that are being used right now? Are they
going to be -- are they going to go away?
MR. BURGESS: No, they'll stay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What are they going to be
used for?
MR. BURGESS: It would be for emergency services
for kids.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So you're not
giving up any beds? You are moving some uses, but you're
not giving up any beds?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's the X plus Y
that I was talking about before. That's still the accurate
equation. You've got X beds now, Y beds are going in
there, and you're going to have X plus Y. You're not
eliminating one single bed by this --
Page 102 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 94
MR. BURGESS: We're not eliminating any beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move
on -- we've got a couple other commissioners. What I'd like
to suggest is that -- we'll see how far we get, but then we'll
go from there in terms of -- we have a 1 o'clock time-certain
as well, and I want to make sure we have a lunch break as
well.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you,
Chairman.
So no beds disappear, right? A moving van doesn't
come and take away any beds? A building isn't destroyed
because --
MR. BURGESS: No.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- you've gone over
to the central receiving facility. Those beds still exist, but I
think where I sort of scratch my head a little, and maybe one
or two other commissioners, when you say, no, those beds
won't disappear but they'll be used for emergency services or
whatnot, I don't want to make it sound like -- or I don't want
to put words in your mouth, but I don't want to make it
sound like they're sort of overages for emergency things that
may or may not pop up because the thing -- the mission that
those beds were used for is now in the central receiving
facility. So we'll continue to keep those 30 beds with
pillows on them and made, but the mission of those beds has
been moved over. That's not untrue. The mission is moved
over, but those beds will still have a need and will still be
used. They're not just sort of extra overages for something
that may not happen frequently, correct.
MR. BURGESS: Absolutely. They will -- they will
Page 103 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 95
remain. They will be used, and a great example of that is
the children's services, Baker Act services and emergency
services for kids that we operate now will continue to
operate, and those beds are there for that purpose.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. That's more
clear than, like, an hour ago when I think some of us were
hearing, you know, "When the beds move over." That's why
I was saying, so then the building gets destroyed or the beds
get taken away, and so you've answered that.
My second question is, there's definitely a disconnect
or we're not quite in full agreement on the operational
procedures of how the county and DLC is going to partner;
the naming rights, the other things. And this is all part of
today's vote. And from my discussions with -- with our
County Manager and with our Clerk of Courts and others,
and the other commissioners have all spoken with the same
people, there's some definite disconnects or not full
agreement.
Does anybody want to tackle that -- that now? Because
that's another, you know, 800-pound gorilla that's sitting in
the room that requires us to see if we think we're close
enough that maybe nobody's signing on the dotted line
today, but today's vote is to continue to extend the
conversation and work out the fine details of the agreement.
I would ask you and then I would ask Ms. Patterson to
chime in for the benefit of all five of us. How far away are
we on an agreement for the operational procedures of how
we're going to partner and also, too, on the money, the
naming rights, and those other things? I'd like to hear your
comment, and then I know Ms. Patterson can speak, you
know, for the county, because that's a big part of our vote
Page 104 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 96
today as well.
MR. BURGESS: Sure. As far as we're concerned, and
our board has been very active as well in the conversation,
we -- we are comfortable with where we are on all of those.
So we --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I know. But are we?
MR. BURGESS: Is the county?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. BURGESS: I would assume so. I mean, we are
here today and the documents have been provided. And I
know our legal teams have talked. I believe we're on the
complete same page with everything.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, if
Ms. Patterson says that's exactly right and we are, then this
will be a very fast vote. So -- but you still have the floor,
and, ma'am, you know, whoever.
MS. ASHKAR: Yes. Just really quickly, I just want to
add, for the documents -- again, Sally Ashkar, Assistant
County Attorney, for the record. We have finalized all the
documents. I think, Commissioner, what you're referring to
maybe is the funding related to this.
As you know, in the operating agreement, there's not a
maximum spend for funding anywhere listed in here. What
you have in front of you is the pro forma, and that does
show a deficit in funding. We have the naming rights
agreement that helps to compensate that on the back end.
To the extent that there is additional funding required
for this facility, that's for DLC to answer, but in terms of the
documents and in terms of operation, we are all in
agreement that these are the documents that we're working
with today that have been published in your agenda.
Page 105 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 97
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Before you leave the
podium, then -- and I'll get to you real quick. Just a
question.
The second big issue -- we had the number of beds.
The other big issue was the obligation of the county in terms
of the General Fund going forward. You've answered that,
but it was a long time ago. So can you, again, tell this board
what our obligations are in terms of ongoing funding for this
project if it starts to get to a point where they're losing a lot
of money on this.
MS. ASHKAR: The county is only responsible for the
construction of the facility. We are not responsible for
operation of the facility. There is a provision in the contract
that allows DLC to approach the Board should they request
additional deficit funding, and the Board at that time has the
option to either approve that request, approve a reduction in
level of service, or we can terminate the contract. That's one
of the terminable events in the contract.
But other than that, the county does not have any
responsibility for operational funding. And DLC, actually,
is responsible for the initial FF&E, the furniture, fixture, and
equipment investment and ongoing placement of FF&E for
the term of the lease.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, thank you,
Mr. Chair.
I think it -- the clarification of the existing facility and
the new facility offer up issues with -- further issues with
me. As you know, I haven't been thrilled with this
transaction from the beginning. Now, with the segregation
of 78 beds in the existing facility, whatever their uses are,
Page 106 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 98
and 87 beds in the new facility, whatever their uses are, the
management of the expenses associated with your aggregate
operations is -- is difficult for me to wrap my arms around. I
see the potential.
And again, the operating agreement that is here in front
of us says the same thing that you said to me, us, in
December. If we have enough money, we're going to do a
good job. If we don't have enough money, we're going to
ask you for more, or we're going to cut services, reduce the
level of service.
MR. BURGESS: Well, can I clarify?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, absolutely.
MR. BURGESS: Well, so -- yeah. So if it -- what we
have also indicated is that we're going to be seeking funding
from other sources, the naming rights being one of those
sources. So we're seeking philanthropic support specifically
for that building for the furniture, fixture, equipment, for any
deficit type of operational delta that might be there. So
that's -- that's a source of potential funding. And we also
have obligated ourselves to try to work with other
community partners that may be willing to step up as well in
this pursuit that we will try to secure resources from.
Let's -- the hospitals and other sources because of it being a
community benefit, and what -- we're taking that
responsibility on ourselves to seek that support as well.
So we've got the community support, we've got the
philanthropic support, on top of all the other efforts that
we're going to try, which would be federal, state sources of
funding, leveraging federal funds. So there's a lot of
different pieces to trying to secure that.
Page 107 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 99
If at the end of all of that we are not able to be
completely successful, that's when we might come before
the County Commission and ask. And then at that point in
time, obviously, the county commissioners have the ability
to either support that or not support that. And if the decision
is to not support that, then that's where we would have to
come forward to say, okay, this is what we look to do.
But that's not our intention, and that's a lot of ifs that go
all the way before that final step.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. And I
know it's a lot of ifs. But again, I personally have to plan for
the worst, hope for the best, and then figure a way to make
things happen.
MR. BURGESS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm -- I have
expressed concerns significantly about this, about this
facility, about these operations from the get-go. And I don't
mean to belabor the point, but I'm still stuck on the
administration side or the operational side with the two
different facilities, because the operating agreement that is
here today in front of us solely deals with the new facility.
It doesn't -- I don't see a clear path for us to get there. So
I'm -- at some point -- you know, I have other comments,
but, you know, there again, at some point I do want to make
a positive statement here, and it has to do with our County
Manager.
It's not us against you. It's not her against you. This is
a -- this is a community circumstance. And I want to
compliment our County Manager for the efforts. The
information that's been provided to us with very specific
truths, if you will, on how, what, when, where, and how. I
Page 108 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 100
just -- I just want to say thank you right now no matter how
this goes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Burgess, do you have
anything else in terms of the presentation, any other
participants in the participation -- in your presentation?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner
LoCastro, you have some questions?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I was just going to
make a statement, and we can chew on it for a bit. And I
don't want it to sound premature if there's more. Let's see if
they have more to add.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to move to
public comment pretty quickly here, so let's finish.
MR. BURGESS: The item that was brought to my
attention is just to make sure that you had the updated pro
forma that's been worked on with the county that you have
the current numbers associated with --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Could you give a copy of
that to the Manager, and, Ms. Patterson, could you make
copies of that and get that to us or have somebody make
copies?
MR. BURGESS: It's in your backup.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's get some copies of
that. It's just, if there are a bunch of numbers --
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, I believe that -- there's not a
bunch of numbers. It's actually just the bottom-line number,
and I'm --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HALL: If it's just the bottom-line
number, we can tell you if we got it.
Page 109 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 101
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: How many public
comments are there, Troy?
MR. MILLER: We have eight registered speakers.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So, Mr. Chair, if I
can just say --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You know, and
you've always said, and we all agree, we want to hear from
the public comment. I'm just going to throw this out there.
You know, you always say you can count noses, you know,
sometimes, and there are some concerns up here.
One thing I would say is, you know, I don't want to see
a rush to judgment in a negative way because we're sort of
stalling on this. I think there's still room to exhaust every
possibility.
On June 3rd, we're having a mental health discussion
here which has nothing to do with this. It's totally separate.
But all the right people are still going to be in this room.
And so one of the proposals I'll make a little
prematurely -- but I'll just throw it out there for the
commissioners to think about -- so we have that chance to
talk about everything we're going to talk about mental
health, but then if we wanted to switch gears and take a
lunch break, and then before everybody goes home, dive
into this a little bit, we have that possibility, I believe. I'd
asked our County Manager if that was possible, and she said
it was.
And then our next meeting is on June 10th. So we have
sort of two bites at the apple if we don't feel like we've
gotten all the answers that we're exhausting today. And so,
Page 110 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 102
you know, my premature thought would be we continue this
to June 10th. It gives us June 3rd to talk about it a bit, it
gives until June 10th to have everybody meet with us
separately if they want to, you know, your board members,
everybody that's involved, Father Orsi, our County
Managers and whatnot.
And then, you know, if by the 10th we can't get three
votes, then, I mean, we all know the importance of a central
receiving facility. But as we've all said before, it doesn't
have to go on the DLC site. I personally believe it's the site
that makes the most sense by a billion miles. But if we can't
come to an agreement on the pro forma, the naming rights,
the money, how many beds we're really getting and what it
costs, then, I mean, you know, we've got to move forward
somewhere, because we want -- this facility is going to
happen somewhere.
So I don't want to jump ahead of the public comments,
but I think -- I think we know what we're going to hear in
the public comments, and I think it's things that we know.
But I also think it will add to the discussion, but I think we
have a chance here to not jump into something quickly here
and ask for a quick vote when it's obvious to me that there's
still some unanswered questions here that we could use the
next two times we meet and all the time in between to solve.
So it's just a thought. I'm not making a motion, but that
would be my motion if it was time, but I think the public
comment is probably next.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, as I said, we
have eight registered speakers here. Your first speaker is
Father Michael Orsi, and he'll be followed by Julie
Page 111 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 103
Schmelzle. I'm reticent to start the timer on the first
speaker.
FATHER ORSI: I jumped from last speaker to first
speaker because I have a funeral at 12 o'clock, and there's no
reason for two people to be late, me and the deceased.
I want to, first of all, say I know each and every one of
you. You are all very, very good men, you have very, very
good hearts, and I know that you are concerned for the
community.
I tend to agree with Mr. LoCastro. It doesn't seem that
we are ready to make a good decision today. I know my
friends at David Lawrence might be shocked that I'm saying
this, but I want all of us to win, and this can be a win-win
situation.
As I told you before, believe it or not, God does speak
to me. This proposal is the right thing to do for our
community. I know you're concerned about your campaign
promises. You're worried about the taxes, and what are the
constituents of our different districts going to think about
what we are going to do with this central receiving center?
The fact of the matter is it is the right thing to do. Is it
the right time now at this moment? Maybe not at this
moment, but it's the right thing to do.
As Commissioner LoCastro said, there are going to be
two other attempts to take a bite out of the apple. When we
come to that juncture, there is only one right thing to do, and
that is to approve this project. God's children are suffering
in our community. In a community like ours, there's no
reason for this. These are the poorest of the poor, and David
Lawrence is offering a solution.
I know that Commissioner Hall and I have had our
Page 112 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 104
discussions, and he is struggling to come to a good decision.
And, Chris, you will come to a good decision, I know that. I
know your heart. I know the hearts of all of you.
So I'm going to propose that we maybe take another
bite out of the apple. Get some clarification, but it can go no
further. Build it, and they will come. And not to act is to
act. And so I'm willing to wait, but I hope that you will pray
very hard over the decision that you're going to make. And
God has spoken very clearly: This project must go forward.
God bless you. Amen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal,
was it the next meeting that -- you may not be at the next
meeting?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, no, no, no. That's
that June 24th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, that's --
MR. MILLER: Your next public comment is Julie
Schmelzle. She'll be followed by Caitlin George.
A couple things: I want to ask the speakers to queue up
at both podiums to move this along. Also remind speakers
you have three minutes, and you'll get a single beep at 30
seconds to go.
Julie.
MS. SCHMELZLE: Yes. Good morning. For the
record, Julie Schmelzle. My role today is really as a
community leader but also as a business leader.
And first of all, I want to -- sitting here for two hours,
and the numbers, I have to go to my office and work on
some numbers this afternoon.
But I do want to commend all of you for the very
Page 113 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 105
thoughtful questions, the clarification that is necessary when
it comes to spending public funds, those public funds for
this intake facility voted on by the voters to spend for this
very important project. And I don't want to lose sight that
that is an additional need or support of a need for this
community in terms of mental health.
You have an exceptional partner here in David
Lawrence that's been taking care of our community for
50-some years. It is now incumbent on all of us given the
growth of our community, the complexity of our
community, and what is continuing to evolve around mental
health, whether it's our children or our adults. We need to
take this as an opportunity to move along.
You know, the numbers -- the numbers don't lie in
terms of -- I think it's been a decade that we started
dreaming or talking about this intake facility and what that
would mean for this community. We voted on it as a
community as a top priority both for our community and for
our business community, which I will speak to.
I know that this is a challenge, and the devil is in the
details, truly. It does sound as though within this operating
agreement -- Commissioner McDaniel, I don't necessarily
disagree with you on this -- we're so close. Let's take this
over the finish line.
I am fully in support of -- whether I come back another
date soon or we come to a conclusion today, but I do want to
thank all of you for your thoughtfulness. The time is now.
We've got to get this done. The need is not going away.
The combined -- you know, we talk about 87 beds being the
new and that being borne by the taxpayers, yet you have a
community partner here in David Lawrence that you've got
Page 114 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 106
combined impact all wanting to do the right thing for our
community in supporting mental health.
So thank you very much for today, and God speed to
you all.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Caitlin George,
and she will be followed by Amanda Pearson.
MS. GEORGE: Good morning. My name is Caitlin
George, NCH administrative director for all of NCH's
emergency departments and Marco Island Urgent Care.
Thank you all, County Commissioners. We greatly
value and respect your concerns regarding how many beds
are going to be added at David Lawrence Center. The long
and short of it is they're going to add 87 beds minus the 30
that they're moving over. That's increasing 57 beds, which
is almost doubling their current capacity.
So I'm here to explain to our taxpayers what their return
on investment's going to look like. It's doubling the capacity
of our mental health resource beds here in Collier County,
which means improved timely access to mental health
resources and care and also what that means for them when
they visit our NCH emergency departments: Improved
access to medical treatment in the emergency department.
As a certified emergency nurse of 20 years who has
worked across the country in numerous emergency
departments in cities such as Seattle, Denver, and Detroit
and right here in Naples, Florida, I have witnessed first hand
the national and local challenges that we face with
overcrowding in the ER, longer boarding hours, higher
acuity patient cases, and an increase in psychiatric and
behavioral health emergencies visiting our ERs every day.
I want to talk about a major community need that
Page 115 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 107
impacts not just patients and healthcare workers but our
entire NCH organization, the urgent need for a dedicated
central receiving facility in our community. At NCH, we
deeply believe that every individual should receive
compassionate, timely, and appropriate healthcare,
especially those experiencing a mental health crisis.
Emergency rooms are not mental health facilities.
They're for patients experiencing -- and they're not for
patients experiencing a mental health crisis. They should be
evaluated and stabilized at our community behavioral health
central receiving facility at David Lawrence Center.
Individuals that are experiencing suicidal thoughts,
depression, psychosis are often left to wait for hours or even
days in our ERs waiting for specialized behavioral health
treatment and evaluation because there are not enough
mental health beds available.
Supporting the central receiving facility will expedite
timely patient care, reduce wait times, boarding hours, and
improve care. On behalf of NCH, we strongly support the
addition of the central receiving facility to support our
community behavioral healthcare needs. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kimberly Dye,
and she'll be followed by Garrett Beyrent.
MS. DYE: Kimberly Dye, but I am here to put into the
record a letter from our founder, Polly Keller, who's with us
today, but she has vision issues, so she's asked me to read
the letter officially.
Dear Chairman Saunders and the Collier County Board
of County Commissioners, I'm writing to you today to ask
that you approve the contract with David Lawrence Centers
for Behavioral Health for the Collier County Behavioral
Page 116 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 108
Health Center. As an advocate, volunteer, and supporter of
David Lawrence Centers for nearly 60 years, I know that
this center is critical to the long-term health and success of
this community that we all love.
Collier County has grown significantly since the center
was founded by a small group of citizens in 1968, and with
that growth has come a greater need for mental and
behavioral healthcare for children, families, adults, and
seniors.
For more than 55 years, David Lawrence Centers has
been there to answer the call of our neighbors in need. In
2024, more than 8,700 children and adults received care
through programs offered at DLC.
The heartbreaking reality, though, is that so many more
people in our community need access to the lifesaving and
life-changing services. Last year alone, nearly 1,400 adults
were admitted into DLC's crisis stabilization unit for
immediate crisis care. The Collier County Behavioral
Health Center will allow more adults to receive emergency
care each year, tripling the number of adults DLC can serve
in crisis, such as adults requiring in-patient care through the
Baker Act or Marchman Act.
It will be a place where seniors with Medicare can seek
in-patient care, a rarity in Southwest Florida. Right now
Collier County is in the biggest mental health crisis it's ever
been in. Imagine the difference this new center will have in
this community.
I dream that one day the need for compassionate mental
health and substance use services isn't as great as it is today,
but until then, my dream is that we can meet the needs of
our families, our friends, and our neighbors.
Page 117 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 109
I urge you to approve the contract with David
Lawrence Centers for the Collier County Behavioral Health
Center. Your support will bring my dream and the dream of
so many in our community one step closer to reality.
Thank you for your continued commitment to Collier
County. Polly Keller.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Garrett Beyrent,
and he will be followed by Dudley Goodlette.
MR. BEYRENT: For the record, Garrett F.X. Beyrent.
FX is Francis Xavier. That's a Catholic orientation.
Fifty-six years ago -- believe it or not, 56 years ago, I
was summoned to the south end of Gordon Drive by a guy
named Douglas Bathey. He was trying to sell me a piece of
property that I wasn't that crazy about buying on the East
Trail. Now, Douglas Bathey was married to Mercy Bathey,
and the piece of property they wanted to sell me,
now -- oddly enough, is now named after Donna Fiala. It's a
state park -- or it's a county park.
Long and short was, that was not where he was going
to build the facility that we know as the David Lawrence
Center. Now, David Lawrence was a kid. He was actually
Douglas and Mercy Bathey's stepson, and he was 16 years
old, and he slit his wrists, and he died. And his father,
Douglas Bathey, decided that with his money -- and he was
a little short of cash at the time, he wanted to build a facility
and name it after his son, the David Lawrence Center.
So I was in a position where I wasn't that crazy about
buying the property he wanted to sell me because it was
right next to Naples Manor, and it was a good -- it was
143 acres. And I thought, well, why don't you build your
Page 118 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 110
facility on that site?
And he said, "No, I picked out a different site to build
the David Lawrence Center on," and that's the center -- that's
where it is now.
And the amount of money that was transferred was
only going to buy that piece of property, the original site
and -- to build his little facility, and he went ahead and did
that.
And that was 56 years ago I was in his house. His
house was on the south end of Gordon Drive. And oddly
enough, I was sitting in his living room, and he was a big,
tall guy, but his ceilings were only eight feet high. His
living room was, like, 40 feet long, and, of course, his view
was the Gulf of Mexico.
And he said to his wife, "Mercy, would you get
Mr. Beyrent a glass of iced tea?"
And alls I could think of was I was sitting there buying
a piece of property I really wasn't that crazy about from a
guy that decided that in the end of his life -- he was an older
guy.
He said -- he said, "I was going to build this facility
because I lost my son." And that's something you don't want
to ever do. You don't want to lose any of your kids.
And it was sad, but, you know, I sat there thinking -- I
was looking at the ceiling, saying, "How could you build a
mansion on the beach and have an 8-foot-high ceiling?"
That's all I could think about. I wasn't even thinking about
his 16-year-old son who slit his wrists and died. I'm a
different person today.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dudley
Page 119 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 111
Goodlette, and he will be followed by Andy -- is this Solis?
Mr. Goodlette has been ceded three additional minutes
from Amanda Pearson.
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be
short.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's easy to say.
MR. GOODLETTE: First of all, I was distributed a
letter from Garrett Richter who was not able to be here
today but asked that I come and present his letter to you, and
I'm pleased -- and a pleasure to do so.
Dear Collier County Commissioners, I regret that I am
out of town and not able to speak in person at this Board of
County Commissioners meeting. If I were town -- I'm sorry.
If I were in town, I would address the Board in great favor
of the operating agreement.
The DLC receiving facility was the reason I cast my
vote in favor of the 1 percent sales tax initiative which
narrowly passed in 2018. As you're all aware, DLC
addresses the critic -- critical needs of our community
regarding mental health issues. These issues are
tremendous, and they are growing. David Lawrence Center
is extremely meaningful and is severely underfunded by
both Medicaid and our state, and yet it fights the good fight
on a daily basis to address the mental issues that nobody
wants to discuss except in their prayers.
Why will this facility operate in the red? Because a
large majority of the people that are served at the facility are
brought there by Collier County Sheriff's Office or first
responders. They have no insurance, they have no money,
nonetheless they receive high-quality attention from the
professionals at the center.
Page 120 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 112
Medicaid reimbursements -- reimburses a small
fraction of that cost while those without Medicaid and
insurance pay even less or nothing at all.
While the cost of this project was increased over the
years, we were fortunate to enter into a maximum price
construction agreement with the builder. Your vote to
approve the operating agreement and begin construction will
enable us to move forward without facing more severe
construction increases if that contract expires.
I ask that you vote in favor of the operating agreement
in order to continue the effective partnership we have with
Collier County to meet the increasing needs of our
community.
Garrett Richter.
And I -- we fully endorse that, but I don't want to read
it again and say that's been my opinion. So thank you very
much, Mr. Chairman and members.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final registered speaker for this
item is Andy Solis.
MR. SOLIS: For the record, Andy Solis. It's good to
be here and see you all --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, it's not.
MR. SOLIS: -- and I don't envy you -- I don't envy
you --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Sir, can you speak up
a little bit, please, into the microphone? Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did we swear him
in? Are you sworn in on that? There you go.
MR. SOLIS: I do not envy your job on this. It's been a
long and difficult journey, I know. When it started in 2016,
Page 121 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 113
you know, the intent was to increase the county's capacity to
service the residents suffering from mental health and
addiction. And yes, I'm -- I'm in recovery. I don't practice
law anymore, so I'm in recovery --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Look at you.
MR. SOLIS: -- and I went to law school because I
wasn't good at math.
But the intent was to increase the capacity, not specific
capacities. So sitting in the back, I just want to say that if
there are 30 beds currently and 87 are being built and the 30
beds are going to be remaining after the CRS is built, the
net, to me -- and I think I just heard something else from
NCH, but the net is 87 beds for the good of the community.
And, you know, the one thing I did learn was the
permitting of mental health services is really complicated,
and I did not even try to understand it because it was that
complicated. So where the services will be provided, I
think, is probably, in great respect, dictated by the state and
by the licensing.
But this is an 87-bed benefit to the community. It's a
game changer from 30 to what the total of that is. And
it's -- I think the math is simple, and the issue's simple.
And thank you for doing the heavy lifting and fly
speccing the agreements. I mean, I think that's -- you're
doing a great job on that, and that needs to be done, because
it is taxpayer funds. But this is a high priority for the
community. It's always been that. And I hope you support
approving the contract today. The community needs it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was our speakers.
Page 122 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 114
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Doesn't
Commissioner Solis look well-rested? I mean, look at him.
I'm envious.
Listen, to keep things moving along and see if -- you
know, if we have the support and then if we don't, then we
have the other options. But I'm of the mindset that a B-plus
decision today is better than an A-plus decision that never
comes.
And we need a central receiving facility somewhere.
I've been a strong supporter that the smartest place to put it
is DLC. I'm just a little disappointed that the agreement
hasn't come together quicker.
Like I said, I don't feel like we're building the
International Space Station here, but also we're talking big
dollars, and nobody wants to build something that costs a
million dollars per bed or lose, you know, a million dollars a
year, although these facilities aren't supposed to be cash
cows. I mean, we're investing in the mental health of our
community, but we also have to make sure we have the
money. And I'm always of the thought that it has to be at
least 51 percent good for the community and 49 percent
good for David Lawrence, or even more for the community.
Why? Because we're putting taxpayer dollars among this.
So this can't be we hand you the keys to a facility, and
it gives the impression that it's some big, huge advantage for
DLC to move around beds and do all these things, and in the
end it's just costing us money.
So it has -- this has to be crystal clear, even the amount
of beds. In the last 15 minutes, we just heard two different
Page 123 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 115
things about the beds. I mean, no offense to the NCH
person, but you guys have got to get your story straight.
We're either getting 87 beds and the other beds aren't
moving -- they're saying that there's a -- you know,
30 percent of the beds move, and then that means that there's
a delta of less than 87. Somebody better stop saying that or
tell us that that's exactly what's going to happen.
So we've heard from all the speakers. I don't want to
cut any of my commissioners off if they're lit up, but I think
I might be the only one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, you're not.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There's three others.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. But -- okay.
Well, you can say something. But my motion's going to be
that we approve this. We still have some homework to do
and some pencils to sharpen, but we approve this today. If it
fails, we still have, like I said, a chance to take a few more
bites out of the apple. But I think we're quickly approaching
a time where we have to make a command decision to either
move forward with maybe a B-plus decision and then try to
tighten it up down the road or move in a totally different
direction if we have other options.
But my motion will be that we approve this today and
then continue to tighten it up as we would with any deal.
But I'll leave that out there, and obviously, other
commissioners have some comment.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro,
on the motion, just so there's some clarity -- because I will
second the motion, but I need to understand what it is. And
I would ask Sally Ashkar to come up to the podium.
To move this along today, what are the terms of a
Page 124 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 116
motion that needs to be approved, assuming that we're going
to move forward?
MS. ASHKAR: You would move to approve the
amendment to the vacant land contract, which is inclusive of
the edits to the lease and the operating agreement. Those are
exhibits. And it would be also the amendment to the naming
rights agreement. That was the agenda item for today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro,
is that your motion?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That's my motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: To get the motion on the
floor, I'll second it.
We have three people lit up. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I wanted to have this meeting today and have some
clarity, but I think I've got more questions than -- now I
have -- now than I had before we entered the meeting.
And that being said, you know, I know we have the
June 10th meeting is kind of the drop-dead date, because I
think I was told that the contractor has till the 22nd of June.
So it's not like if we didn't do it today, it couldn't happen on
the 10th, and then having the workshop on the 3rd, which
sits between the two meetings today and the one on the 10th.
You know, I just -- I just want to clarify -- and there are
a lot of people coming up here and telling us how we need a
mental health facility. We passed a mental health facility.
We did it back in, I want to say, 2022. This commission,
these five people right up here, heard it for hours and hours,
and we passed to build a mental health facility on that swath
of property.
That -- we did that part, and we kept continuing doing
Page 125 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 117
that part, and we got to a ceiling of a maximum payment on
construction. You know, we did that part.
The part that we haven't gotten is the fact that every
time we start looking at the operational contract, the
goalpost keeps getting moved. And it's every time we have
to revisit the contract, it's something new, and it's either
diminishing beds or it's these beds are here, those.
I've got questions like, how many people are you
planning on hiring? How many new employees does David
Lawrence plan on hiring for this new facility? How many
employees are already there that are going to be moved over
with the 33 beds that are already employed by David
Lawrence? I don't have any of these answers. I just have
numbers, you know. So these things are just, to me, I think
are still questions that are hanging out there.
And I understand that, you know, the contract's written
basically in our favor. If you go down the road and this
doesn't happen the way it's supposed to happen and all the
sugarplums don't line up in our dreams and dandelions and
all that, we can walk away from it, and they have an option
to buy it. But, you know, that's a steep price tag at 56,
$57 million.
So that's just the way I feel. I think we still have some
time to get some answers or -- you know. So that's my
opinion right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you,
Mr. Chair.
I -- you know, there may be a record of me supporting
this somewhere along the line. And, again, with -- just for a
brief reiteration, when -- Commissioner Saunders, when you
Page 126 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 118
and I became county commissioners, Collier County didn't
have a mental health plan. I was told that by HHS up in
Washington, D.C., in '17, the first year I was in office.
Commissioner Solis, wherever he went -- oh, there he is in
the back. Glad you're recovering by the way, my friend.
MR. SOLIS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The -- he's the one
that grabbed onto it and developed that mental health plan.
Mr. Burgess was the chair of that facility.
I -- there -- and again, most all of you have heard me
say out loud there's little to no rehabilitation that comes with
incarceration. And knowing all those things, the need hasn't
ever gone away. David Lawrence isn't going to go away.
Whether we approve this transaction or not, we're still going
to be partners with them. They still have, I would assume,
some rationale of expansion of the existing facility, rehab
somehow, someway whether or not we accept this
transaction as-is or not.
I still feel that the location isn't the right location. It
was referenced in the original study that the mental health
stakeholders committee put together that this location is not
the No. 1 choice.
I still feel the operating agreement that's in front of us
today is inadequate. I see performance issues that are
nebulous to me with regard to how you're going to track it,
and so many people -- 40 percent, 80 percent of the people
are going to get response within seven days. I don't
know -- I don't know -- without beating that horse, I don't
see -- I'm not happy with the existing operating agreement. I
see -- I still see inadequacies there.
So having said that -- and I haven't even -- I haven't
Page 127 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 119
even gotten into the CMAR with the contract that we have
for a contractor that is the maximum guaranteed price, and
I'm not sure that that can even, in fact, be attained. So I'm
not in support of going -- I haven't been in support of going
forward with this at all. I think -- I think we need to
regroup. Maybe we can regroup a little bit on the June 3rd
workshop when you suggested that we can -- we can talk
about this a little bit more.
But I can't get happy -- I can't get happy with this
facility, so I'm not in support of the motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
So I have a question maybe for County Manager or for
County Attorney. If we approve this operating agreement
with the David Lawrence Center, can this thing be in effect
whether we do it in a new facility that we're going to build
or whether we opt to do a different facility and they are the
operator? Is this specifically tied to the new central
receiving facility?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So, you know, the
operating agreement has been thought out, and there are still
some things that are unanswered in it, and it does protect the
county, which makes me feel a little better, but it still
implies there's an underlying implication, even though it
says that there's not, that in the future the county could be
behind the eight ball, because none of us want to sit up here
and say, no, we're not going to approve your money because
you're in a deficit and put us in a bad situation, but we
Page 128 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 120
would be in a bad situation.
And I, for one, right there would lead the cause in
saying "Nope. We told you this in the beginning. This is
not going to be on the taxpayers."
Number two, the naming rights. I have no problem
with the naming rights, you know, as far as raising revenue.
But they're a one-time thing. It's a one-time occurrence that
you get revenue for naming rights. However long that
money lasts is unimportant, but that's not an ongoing source
of revenue unless it's structured to be that way.
The finance statement, the money spent to increase the
beds, the funding options of the naming, and several other of
these things, it seems to me like we're trying to squeeze a
square peg into a round hole at this time.
When it all boils down to it, there's 30 beds that exist
right now that are paid for. We're going to spend
$56 million and build 87 beds, of which 30 of those are
going to be coming over from the other building. So the net
increase is going to be 57, 60 beds, whatever it is. It's not a
net increase of 87 beds for $56 million. Thirty of them are
already existing. If you built 87 beds and nothing came
over, that's a net increase of 87 beds.
So maybe as just some thoughts going forward into the
workshop -- whether we approve this agreement or not,
these thoughts need to be thought about. Maybe we reduce
the size of the asset and make it expandable in the future at
the -- at the current location. Maybe we change the existing
facility -- change to an existing facility that can be modified
specifically for the services that David Lawrence Center
provides. Maybe put it on campus or somewhere else.
Maybe David Lawrence Center could handle the
Page 129 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 121
mental health aspects of the county needs, which they do
very well -- we'll never -- we're not -- this -- my confidence
is there as far as mental health -- and then partner with other
agencies or non-profits that handle the substance abuse very
well, thus being able to utilize their -- their revenue and let
them share in the expenses.
So what I'm thinking right now is I don't think this is a
matter of not "if" but "how." How do we arrive to do
something smart for the taxpayer, to do something that's
smart for the community, to do something that's going to
benefit all without just throwing -- throwing $56 million at
the wall and seeing how it sticks, if it sticks.
And like I said, the operating agreement does protect
the county, but I don't want to be put in the situation later to
where I'm going to say no if the ask comes for the taxpayers
to support the operations of it. And I don't want to be in that
position, and I would like to see --
My thoughts were, as Mr. Morton was speaking, he
said, "I run a private equity group." If you presented this
deal as it stands to the private equity group, the little glass
box would slam shut. No deal. Because a private equity
group is not going to enter into an investment, regardless of
the cause, with their own money with these -- with this pro
forma or with these perceived outcomes.
So I'm all for extending the conversation. I'm not
concerned at all about the timing of anything. This is our
17th meeting. If we get it done in the 19th meeting, I think
it will be okay. But what we want to do is do something
that's correct, do it in good stewardship with the public
money, and ultimately, treat our mental -- our mentally ill
and our people that are in our community with substance
Page 130 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 122
abuse with dignity and a way out, and I think that we are all
sharp enough to come up with those answers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I seconded the motion
because I wanted to have this conversation. I wanted each
one of us to go on the record and talk in terms of what our
concerns are.
I had two big concerns. One was the number -- the net
increase in the number of beds. To me it's clear. It's 87.
That has to be clarified between now and whenever this
comes back.
The other issue was the limitation on what the
obligation was for the taxpayers going forward. That was
taken care of in the contract. Everything I wanted in this
agreement is in this agreement. Everything I wanted in the
naming agreement is in the agreement. There's nothing else
here that I need. Obviously, there's some clarification that
the Board needs.
I'm going to withdraw my second because I don't want
to run the risk of having a vote today and have it fail. I don't
know what the outcome would be here. I can count two that
would be in favor. I can count two against, and I'm not sure
where the other one would be, and I'm not going to run the
risk.
So I'm going to withdraw my motion -- my second to
the motion. That -- unless somebody else wants to second
the motion, the motion fails for a lack of a second, and we'll
just have to come back and deal with this at another date.
But for the record, I withdraw my motion -- my second
to the motion.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you,
Page 131 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 123
Mr. Chairman.
I think we accomplished -- I made the motion because I
wanted to, I don't want to say force the hand, but I wanted
you to hear the serious concerns. And you heard -- even
Commissioner Saunders and I, who I made the motion and
he seconded it, we've got a few questions written down here.
So I will modify my motion to make the motion that we
continue this until June 10th, and at the 3rd we have an
opportunity after we talk about all the concerns of mental
health, and that's going to bring a lot of things to the
forefront, to not waste that day, to talk about some of the
other loose ends. But I think on the 10th, you know, like
we've said, maybe there's no timeline, but there kind of is.
And like I said, I'd rather see the B-plus answer that
happens than an A-plus answer that we can -- that we have
27 meetings over. So the clock's ticking here pretty quick.
I'll make the motion that we continue this till June 10th.
And I know all of our doors are open. And the more
commissioners you can get to, the more meat we can put on
the bone, the more clarity you can get, the more support you
can get not only from the five votes up here but from other
people on the county staff that have concerns. I think that's
the way to go. So I'll make a motion that we continue this
until June 10th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I will second that
motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Motion and
second. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll withdraw my
comments since we're moving off to the 10th. My -- I'll
Page 132 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 124
withdraw.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. In terms of this
being continued until the 10th, obviously, we're going to
need a time-certain again.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I want to thank
everyone that participated. I think it was a good discussion.
I'm a little frustrated because I think it -- to me a lot of these
issues were clear, but they became somewhat muddied. I
think the folks that are in support of this, you have a couple
weeks to clarify these issues, in particular the number of
beds that are going to be added because of this facility. I
think that that's critical.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: After you're done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner
McDaniel, then we'll wrap up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Since you're -- since
you're reiterating concerns, delineation on the operating
agreement between the two different facilities, between the
new facility and the existing facility, and the expansion of
the beds within the existing facility and the operating costs
associated with that and the segregation is going to be
imperative for me to get -- for me to move into some kind of
place where I could live with it.
It's -- I don't -- I don't see, with the current operating
agreement that was presented to us today that you wanted to
approve, we're not obligated to pay any more, but there's a
doubling-plus of the beds that are going into the existing
facility, and we're not going to be asked to come back and
Page 133 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 125
support the existing financing that we have in there. So if
we're reiterating concerns, that's something that I want to -- I
want to see tightened up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So this will be
continued until June 9; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: June 10th.
MS. PATTERSON: June 10th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: June 10th, I'm sorry.
MS. PATTERSON: We will add a line to the
workshop when we print that agenda to allow for some open
discussion of this item if there's any questions or if there's
anything else that the Board -- comes to mind. It won't be
an action item because it's a workshop, but it will allow
some more dialogue as it might evolve to in that -- on
June 3rd.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I would urge -- and I
know everybody will do this, but I would urge, if you have
specific questions, let's get them to Scott Burgess and to the
team there and try to get answers between now and the 10th.
With that, we will --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I add something,
Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Something I think,
Ms. Patterson, that would be very helpful on the 3rd and
definitely on the 10th, and we didn't have it at this meeting,
whenever we vote on construction or an apartment building
or what have you, we always have somebody from the
county staff that comes up and doesn't tell us how to vote
but gives us sort of the pluses and minuses and gives us a
recommendation. Everyone seems to be sort of staying
Page 134 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 126
away from that. You know, we've heard from different
county staff members in private in our offices, but no one
seems to want to come up to the podium and say, "Wow, we
really knocked this out. We have two things that are loose
but nothing that we think, you know, should disapprove this,
so our recommendation is A, B, C, D, and E."
I think the reason the county staff as a whole hasn't said
that is there are still some disconnects. On the 10th, me
personally, if I don't hear something from a senior leader on
the county staff saying, "Wow, some of the things two
weeks ago that you were worried about, we're really close."
Something definitive. We get that for some of the smallest
decisions we make here. This is a huge one. So I
would -- you know, I would hope that would be part of the
discussion on the 3rd and definitely part of the puzzle on the
10th.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We will be in
recess until 1 o'clock.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00
p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Ladies and
gentlemen, if you'll please take your seats, we're going to
reconvene the meeting.
Ms. Patterson.
Item #10A
AN AMENDMENT TO THE TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX
ORDINANCE NO. 2017-53 TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL ONE
Page 135 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 127
PERCENT TAX AS A HIGH IMPACT TOURISM DESTINATION
FOR A TOTAL SIX PERCENT TAX, AND TO PROVIDE
DIRECTION TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND STAFF TO
START THE PROCESS FOR THE AMENDMENT AND
REQUIRED REFERENDUM. - DIRECTION FOR THE COUNTY
ATTORNEY TO PROCEED WITH REFERENDUM LANGUAGE
AND ANY QUESTIONS FROM BOARD MEMBERS ARE TO BE
SENT TO THE COUNTY MANAGER – CONSENSUS
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
This brings us to our 1 o'clock time-certain. This is
Item 10A. It's a recommendation that the Board discuss
whether it wishes to consider an amendment to the Tourist
Development Tax Ordinance No. 2017-53 to impose an
additional 1 percent tax as a high impact tourism destination
for a total of 6 percent tax and to provide direction to the
county and staff to start the process for the amendment and
required referendum.
This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner
Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Just so the Board knows, I'm not asking the Board
today to vote on any tax increases or the tourist tax, but I did
want to bring this issue up and get into a discussion of the
Paradise Coast park and what I think would need to be done
if the Board moves in the direction to complete that park.
And I'm -- the purpose today is to make a case for, yes, we
need to complete that park, and here is a mechanism by
which we can accomplish that.
So it's been no secret I've been a champion of wanting
to complete this park. We've had cost overruns, supply
Page 136 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 128
chain problems, COVID problems, contract problems. No
question a lot of mistakes were made as this project evolved
from the very beginning.
I like to blame our then-staff for all of that. They're not
here right now, so that's good news.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Or you can blame
me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I can blame
Commissioner McDaniel as well. I want to blame
somebody.
But we've learned a lot of lessons. And we have what I
believe to be a real gem of a park. It's just not finished.
And I think what I want to do today is make the case for
why we should finish it, and here is a potential way to do it.
And I've got a lot of folks that I've been meeting with
for the last couple months or so. Every couple weeks I
would get a stakeholder group together, and we would talk
about the needs out there and the approach to getting this
done as long as the Board understands and agrees that it's
worth doing.
I want to read a paragraph in a letter that really has
gotten me thinking a lot, and I think this is something that
all of us need to really focus on.
This Paradise Coast park is not just a sports park for FC
Naples and for the sporting events that Adrian Moses is able
to attract to this thing. It's a whole lot more than that. It is a
community. It's a regional park. And the tourists are paying
the vast bulk of that cost. To put that in perspective,
Commissioner McDaniel out in -- out in District 5 with the
Big Corkscrew park, I don't know the exact amount that that
park's going to ultimately cost, but I'm going to guess by the
Page 137 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 129
time it's finished, if there's a field house out there, for
example, you're probably going to be talking about a
$150 million park by the time --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus/minus. It is
150-.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And so when you
look at Paradise Coast park and you think, okay, we're going
to wind up spending 150-, $170 million on that park, it
sounds like a tremendous amount, and it really is, but it's
more than just a facility for FC Naples. It's a facility for our
community.
And this is one thing I think that really highlights it.
This is a letter from a gentleman, Kenny Rogers. Not the
real Kenny Rogers, but a Kenny Rogers, and it's talking
about the summer closing of the North Collier County
Veterans softball fields, and it says, "Collier County Softball
provides year-round play every Tuesday and Thursday
mornings for area seniors. For the past 35 years, our
organization has provided softball at either Veterans or
North Collier Park for hundreds of members. I am one of
the members, and I live in Naples and Collier County."
And then he goes about saying, "We have been told all
county fields are closing for June, July, and August."
Now, our staff accommodated this particular group by
keeping a field open for a couple of weeks in June to
accommodate this team. But other than that, all of our
fields, all of our grass fields are shut down June, July, and
August. There are a couple other fields that are not grass
fields that can be played on, but our fields shut down.
So we have our entire community without baseball
fields, softball fields, and the ability to play those sports
Page 138 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 130
June, July, and August. That's when our kids are out of
school. That's when the families need things to do.
And the one thing that I've wanted to emphasize from
the very beginning is that this Paradise Coast park will
provide those facilities, not just for our sporting events that
are attracting different types of groups, but for our kids and
for our families, and I think all of us have witnessed at least
one of the FC soccer matches where you get 4,000 to 4,500
people out there. Everybody's having a wonderful time. It
is just a wonderful facility. We just need to finish it, in my
view.
And so we were all up in Tallahassee -- up in
Washington meeting with our senators and congressmen,
and Senator Scott came into our meeting, and the very first
thing he said was -- to this group, and I was very pleased
that he said this. He walks in and he says, "I just took my
grandson to a soccer match at Paradise Coast park," and he
said, "I hope you guys are going to finish that park. It needs
to be finished."
And so I'm sitting there thinking, "Well, I couldn't have
said it better," that we really do need to finish this.
And so the question becomes how. And, again, I've
been meeting with the group, and we don't have 40 or $50
million in tourist tax dollars available for this right now, but
we do have the ability to levy a sixth-penny tourist tax.
So I asked the tourism industry if they would take a
look at what we're trying to accomplish, what I'm trying to
accomplish here in terms of moving this forward, and the
response that I've gotten is, yes, they really feel that this
facility needs to be completed, that it is a tremendous engine
for tourism in this community. And with baseball fields and
Page 139 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 131
softball fields, that engine will be running really, really very
smoothly.
They haven't quite gotten to the point where they've
said, "Yes, we want you to levy a sixth-penny tourist tax,"
but they've gotten to the point where they've said they will
take a look at that and they will evaluate it. And, of course,
that's the only response you could expect, because it's a big
deal.
Now, will a sixth penny -- if we put this out there,
would that affect our tourism industry? I think the bottom
line is it wouldn't -- it would not. There are many counties
that have that. I don't think anyone's going to be looking at
going from 5 percent to 6 percent is going to make a big
difference in our tourist industry, but it will make a huge
difference in our ability to be able to attract these teams and
to do things in the offseason.
I want to pull up -- with your permission, I want to pull
up -- I believe I've got a PowerPoint that has been loaded up,
and I want to just spend a few minutes kind of going through
this. Now, these are some PowerPoints or some images that
came out of the Hunden report that we all sanctioned
probably six months ago. And their report is still kind of in
a draft form, but just -- I have a couple key elements.
So this first slide, the baseball/softball optimally aligns
with Collier County's off-peak tourism season. Soccer.
Turf fields are not ideal for the summer. Our fields are
closed in the summer. And Mr. Hanrahan can talk about the
fact that our fields are closed and that these turf fields are
problematic.
And then the issue of basketball and volleyball in a
type of a field house. And they say that the local demand is
Page 140 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 132
strong, but the peak athletic seasons for indoor sports
overlap with soccer.
And I think some folks from the hotel industry will tell
us they don't need a whole lot more room nights in the
season. They do need a whole lot more room nights in the
summertime, so that perfectly overlaps with what I'm
presenting this afternoon.
Then it goes on to say, local hotels are overloaded
during the winter months. Local hotels struggle during the
summer months.
So on to the next slide, they talk about the
recommendations from Hunden. Eleven dedicated
diamonds: softball, five diamonds; baseball, six diamonds.
Now, that may not be the right mix, but at least they're
telling us this is what they would recommend, at least
initially, and that's something that we should consider if
we're going to continue to finish this park.
Future years, they talk about the indoor field house is
something that should be perhaps in the next phase because
of the overlap with the current season.
Then the next slide just shows preliminarily how they
would lay the fields out. Again, nothing that's cast in
concrete.
If you go to the next slide there.
Okay. Were you able to show the slide with the fields?
I wasn't looking up at the time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He skipped past
them.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay. Well, not a big
deal. We've all seen the picture of the slides.
And then they have the demand and financial
Page 141 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 133
projections. Scenario 3 is the recommended scenario where
they do the fields, and they talk about the -- Commissioner
McDaniel, what the return on investment would be. Now,
that's just dollars. That's not the return on investment in
terms of having these facilities available for our families and
our kids along with our other regional parks.
The next slide just shows the seasonality of the
room-night generation from the different scenarios. In
Scenario 3, you can tell that there's the most room
generation in May, June, and July of the other scenarios, and
that's the baseball and softball fields.
And finally, the last slide is just kind of a summary of
that, again, indicating that their recommendation would be
to go with -- if there's going to be a completion of this park,
that the next phase be the nine or so fields so we can
increase our summer sports.
So I got to looking at okay, well, if we do want to build
these fields, we're talking 40-, $50 million, maybe even a
little more over a period of years to do this. How could we
possibly do it? And we don't have the ad valorem taxes for
this. We don't have enough park impact fees to do this
because we have lots of park issues to deal with.
To my way of thinking, there's only one way we can do
this. And I think that if we go in that direction, which would
be the increase in the tourist tax, I think that the citizens
would approve it. So what's the procedure? The procedure
to go with a tourist tax would be this board evaluating it,
simple majority vote to put it on the ballot in June of next
year. Ballot language would have to be submitted to the
Supervisor of Elections, and there would be a general
election in November 2026.
Page 142 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 134
It sounds like a long time away from now, but it really
is not because once we make a decision -- and I wouldn't
anticipate necessarily making a final decision until probably
the fall. But once a final decision is made to move forward
with that type of a tax levy, there has to be a program to get
the voters to accept it.
Now, the county cannot spend any money at all
promoting or arguing against a constitutional -- or an
amendment that's on the ballot; however, we can ask the
Chamber of Commerce and the tourism folks to help wage a
campaign and, of course, we can do our own -- our own
thing.
So what I want to do today -- we've got a lot of people
that are going to explain why this is something that needs to
be considered. I thought, with your indulgence -- and I see
that, Commissioner McDaniel, you're lit up. If I could just
proceed for another minute or two.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Finish off, and then
I'll go, sir. You're the Chair.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I think first
James Hanrahan was going to tell us a little bit about why
we need more fields in the summertime. And is James still
out here?
MR. HANRAHAN: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, James, come on up.
And, Mr. Moreno, I'm going to ask you to be next, if
you would, and tell us a little bit about how you see the
community need; not just the FC Naples, but the community
need for these fields.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I go before
them?
Page 143 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 135
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you don't mind.
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ostensibly,
Commissioner Saunders, I'm in support of bringing this
initiative forward, but there are some questions that I have.
And I'd like our staff and the folks, everybody to hear where
my concerns are.
There's a lot of history here. You and I are the only
two board members that brought this forward. I was the one
that made the motion to discontinue negotiations with the
Atlanta Braves for that facility and then made the motion to
have this facility constructed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And just so -- for the
record, because it's important, the issue with the Atlanta
Braves, if I'm saying that right, that was a prior board --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- back in 20 -- I
guess -- 15.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Fifteen, '16.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: They were in negotiations
to bring a professional franchise down here. Our very first
meeting it was on the agenda for us, and it was a unanimous
vote to not move forward with that because the
understanding and belief was if you want to watch
professional baseball, you can drive 30 minutes up town,
and there it is, but we needed this type of facility for tourism
and for our families.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. And
then the estimation of the expenses associated with this park
Page 144 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 136
were direly underestimated to us. I mean, when I say
"direly," I think, if I recall, they were representing this
facility to be constructed at 60 -- no more than $80 million
was the estimated expense.
I need to know where we're at now, how much we have
expensed out so far as we go forward here. I need to know
what the TPC for the proposed expansion of this facility is.
Total project cost, that's what TPC stands for, with regard to
the baseball fields and the field house.
One of the representations that instigated me to support
the Paradise Coast park was there was an 80,000-square-foot
indoor stadium being built inside what I called the damn
dam of I-75; 80,000-square-foot Cat 5 stadium to be built on
this facility in Phase 1. And then all of a sudden the phases
got changed. We went to a Phase 0, and the field house gets
moved out to Phase 4 or 5, and here we sit today without an
80,000-square-foot evacuation facility for all of our
residents, especially with the last two hurricanes and the
tidal surge events that we've experienced. We don't have the
capacity to, really well, I should -- we have the capacity, but
not as well as if we had that field house, in fact, constructed.
And so -- and then the last question or statement that
I'm going to make is I need to know what the O&M is, the
ongoing maintenance and operation. Operations and
maintenance is what O&M stands for. I need to know what
those operational expenses, in fact, are. I need to know what
we're looking at today with subsidation [sic] for this facility
out of our General Fund both in the borrowed money that
we've utilized to construct it and the O&M that we currently
have, and then with the addition of the ball fields and the
field house, what the additional O&M expenses attributable
Page 145 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 137
to those are.
Now, last point. You brought up Big Corkscrew
Regional Park, 100 -- I think we're at 120- now. We'll be at
150- by the time we're done building baseball fields and all
that out there. The difference there and here is that's a
community park, a regional park. And really, other than a
little bit of field rental that we get from different clubs and
organizations that utilize that facility, we don't have a lot
of -- we certainly don't have the revenue-generating capacity
that we have out of Paradise Coast. Paradise Coast has
already proven, with our current operator, that we have the
capacity of really offsetting the expenses associated with it.
So those are just a couple of questions as we're going
forward with this. If we do decide to do it, I need to have
the answers to those as we go forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think all of us need
those answers, obviously. And like I said, this is
preliminary. This is something -- I want to kind of get the
sense of where the Board might be on something like this,
because my goal is to move it forward at some point.
So, Mr. Hanrahan, in terms of just the overall need,
especially in the summertime when our fields are shut
down...
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely. James Hanrahan,
interim director for Parks and Recreation.
I just want to speak specifically to the local play. I
know we have Sports Facilities to talk as far as the tourism.
As Commissioner Saunders mentioned, during the
summer, that's when we do our cross-county closures, which
allows -- this is the best time and allows for us to redo all the
fields, which includes repairing worn areas with sprigging,
Page 146 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 138
seeding, sod replacement/aeration, managing soil
compaction.
We work with our partners, our sports partners, both
the youth and the adults, to find out that best schedule. And
you're absolutely right, it's June through August, June, July
and August; that way they're prepared for the fall. Now,
there are some outliers where, as you mentioned, the senior
softball, they like to use the fields, but we did work it where
we looked at the fields and we kind of staggered which ones
could be closed without hurting the process and making sure
that they're all ready, because when you have natural grass,
you want to make sure that the fields can withstand three to
four months of play.
So when you have that closure, you're absolutely right,
the seasons, they shut down. You know, the fields are
closed, and we're -- like, as of right now, Vineyards is the
first one that we're working on.
So having artificial turf fields, if the Commissioners
decide to go that route, would allow play during the
summertime, and we could have both baseball diamonds,
softball diamonds available. Because as of right now, our
inventory for parks does not have any artificial turf for
diamonds. We do have four artificial turfs at North Collier,
two at Big Corkscrew, and one at Eagle Lakes of what I call
rectangle fields where you can do soccer, lacrosse, football,
those kind of things.
So if you guys decide to add this to our inventory, it
would help out in the baseball/softball area for sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I also asked
Mr. Moreno if he might have a few words about
the -- yeah -- the community use of these -- of these fields
Page 147 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 139
and what he sees is needed out there. He's out there all the
time, I would guess, at this point.
MR. MORENO: My second home, yes. Bob Moreno,
CEO FC Naples. I'm here with Alessandro Martin who
works very closely with me.
The first thing I'll say is I want to just thank all of you
guys again for the support of FC Naples.
I know Commissioner LoCastro, Commissioner Kowal,
you were out there on Sunday. I'm not sure --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I was out there. I was
hiding in the corner taking some pictures.
MR. MORENO: Taking pictures. It was a very
special -- special night with honoring our fallen heroes. We
had a lot of veterans there and a lot of families there, which
was very special for us.
So as you guys have seen, FC Naples has gotten off to
a really good start on the field, which is exciting, but what I
control is the off-the-field experience, and like
Commissioner Saunders was saying, the amount of families
and kids that are coming out to the park and enjoying
themselves is just incredible, right?
When we envisioned this, we always knew that this
was going to be a big part of it, but I personally never
imagined all the kids rolling up and down the hills having
fun, not even really paying attention to what's going on in
the field, just having a great time, not looking at technology,
just being themselves, right? It's so hard nowadays to be
present with all the technology and your phone and
everything that -- being at a sports event sort of makes you
feel that.
I'm a big-time golfer, and I love playing golf, and to me
Page 148 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 140
the Masters and the fact that they don't allow cell phones in
the Masters is just incredible, right? I don't know if you've
seen the pictures that come out of this past tournament, just
everybody focused in the moment looking at what's going
on without looking at their phones. And that's what you're
getting at FC Naples games is people are out there just
enjoying themselves.
So when it comes to expanding the sports park, I'm a
huge supporter, right? I'm the first one out there every day
looking at how the demand is, right? We work in the same
office as Adrian's team, and all we hear are calls of people
wanting to reserve fields, and all I hear is, "We're booked.
We're booked. We're booked," right? And that's just for
soccer. I can't even imagine what it will be for baseball
during the summer.
And then the second piece of this, we talked a lot about
grass fields versus turf fields, right? So in our stadium, we
have a turf field, and it's a great field to play on, and I feel
like we have a little bit of a home field advantage because
the field is very, very fast to play on, and other teams aren't
that accustomed to it. Plus, we have a very fast team. That's
the makeup of our team.
But it is challenging, almost impossible, to bring
high-level soccer teams like from the Premier League in
England to play and practice here during their wintertime
because it is a turf field.
One of the homeworks that I had was to talk to a couple
of teams, and I have some letters I'm going to send you of
teams saying, "Look, we'd love to come to Naples. We'd
love to" -- these are big-time teams -- "and practice in
Naples, but the fact that there's no grass fields at the sports
Page 149 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 141
complex makes it impossible for us to do that."
So I would just say that's something to consider maybe
down the road. I don't know if it's an additional field or if
it's replacing the current stadium field with grass. I know
there's a lot of challenges that come with that, but I just
wanted to mention that.
And the last thing that I'll say is this weekend I
stayed -- I stayed at the Great Wolf Lodge during -- during
our game just because it's right next to the stadium, and
while the kids are enjoying the Great Wolf Lodge and
they're loving it, when you're at the pool, everybody's
looking at the stadium saying, "What's over there? What's
over there? What's over there?" Right? So I think just
having more options, more availability, improved food and
beverage, more activities for kids will just grow the sports
park both for tourism but I think, most importantly, for our
local kids.
Alessandro's here with me because I thought it was a
good moment for him. Alessandro was born here, grew up
here, and I just thought it would be good for you to say a
few words about what it would mean to you to have just
more availability.
MR. MARTIN: Most definitely.
Mr. Commissioners, thank you, first and foremost, for
having us here. Alessandro Martin, FC Naples.
But more than that, I was born and raised here in
Naples, and I have seen this city and this county grow
extremely, extremely fast. And with growth, that comes a
lot of responsibility.
One of those responsibilities is to continue to create
outlets for our local youth. These are places where they can
Page 150 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 142
grow, where they can stay active, and stay out of trouble.
Expanding these fields means more kids outdoors, more kids
to -- it creates more opportunities to build character,
discipline, and friendships as well as keeping them away
from bad influences. But sports are more than just physical
spaces. They're tools for development, mentorship, and
community.
As Naples grows, so does the need for places where
kids can play, learn, and feel like they belong. This
expansion is an investment in our community's future, a
direct place to keep our county safer, stronger, and family
focused.
Thank you for considering an investment that gives our
kids a better and healthier future. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. We have
from -- are you -- sorry.
MR. MORENO: I just want to say one more thing that
I thought about, which is building it is fantastic, but
maintaining it is very important, right? And I think that
that's a big thing to consider. And I just want to sort of give
a shout-out to Jamie French, James Hanrahan, Jaime Cook,
Eric, and the whole parks teams, because when they came
into the sports park and sort of got their hands on it, it's
completely, completely changed, and I think that that's an
important thing to continue doing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Commissioner Hall, did you have --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
You know, we say that growth pays for growth. I think
this is a great way for tourism to pay for tourism,
and -- what have we got to do to do it?
Page 151 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 143
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, that's
why I wanted to get this started, because what we have to
do, I think, is pretty simple. The execution of what we have
to do might be a little tougher, but what we have to do
is -- first of all, Chris Lopez is here from the tourist industry.
Maybe this would be an appropriate time for Chris to come
up, and maybe Liz Sanders as well.
Chris has sent us a letter that basically says, "Yes, we
should do improvements and complete the Paradise Coast
park." He's not ready to say his association would support a
one-cent tourist tax, but I think he's probably prepared to say
that that would not have a negative impact on tourism
necessarily.
MR. LOPEZ: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think he's probably
prepared to say that if the Board wants to move in that
direction, he will meet with his association, and we'll see if
we can get them to help us do a campaign. Because, quite
frankly, I think it pass -- I think this type of a campaign
passes regardless but -- because we sell it as tourists paying
for some important amenities for us. But it would be nice to
have -- go hand in hand with the business community and
the tourism industry.
So I guess, am I accurate in what I've said in terms of
where you are and where you think the industry might be?
MR. LOPEZ: Absolutely, Chairman. Thank you.
Yeah, Chris Lopez on behalf of the Florida Restaurant
and Lodging Association.
Commissioners, thank you all so much for your recent
support of tourism as a vital economic driver to this region.
We are absolutely here to support, on behalf of our
Page 152 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 144
chapter, the Collier chapter of the FRLA, to support our
friends at the Paradise Sports -- Coast Sports Complex in
finalizing the buildout of what is already an immensely
impressive complex and can only get better.
We've seen the data from Adrian and his team. We
believe that this would be a tremendous tourism driver in
our summer months. You know, even though we've got the
brutal heat, it's already here, summer's already here, these
tournaments and these teams still travel all summer long,
come from all over the country, all over the world, and we
think Naples should be their first stop in those summer
games, those ball fields, and expanding the multipurpose
field.
So, yes, we are absolutely here, the Chairman's correct.
Thank you for incorporating our members and our
organization in some of these conversations.
We echo what Commissioner McDaniel's kind of
brought up; we would like to see the total project costs at the
end of the day and the maintenance costs for up-keeping this
coming out of TDT -- an increase in any kind of TDT
revenue. Being the industry that would handle the brunt of
all this tax and the increase, we are surveying our partners
across the state to recognize comparable markets and
comparable TDT tax percentages, and we're just -- you
know, we're in a see-and-wait phase now on the final
Hunden report and the survey and the final cost analysis, but
our organization would, you know, wholeheartedly really
review this. And, you know, if it came down to it, you
know, we would really, really consider, you know -- you
know, being that support that it would need to drive to get to
the ballot box and things like that.
Page 153 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 145
But, of course, coming from the commissioner's
recommendations and things like that, still some stuff to
review. But again, we're here in full support of finding the
right plan and the most cost effective plan to get the PCSC
finally built out.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have three folks here
from Sports Facilities Management. Jason has come all the
way -- I'm not sure where you reside.
MR. CLEMENT: Tampa. Clearwater.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Tampa. And Jack from
Tampa.
MR. ADAMS: Clearwater.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And Adrian. Why don't
you three gentlemen come on up for -- I want to thank you
for a couple things. Number one, participating in the
meetings I've been having to talk about this but also for you
to be here. And maybe you could each spend just a minute
or two talking about what this could mean.
And in your case, Adrian, a whole lot more than a
minute or two because I think you're the real operator here
in terms of getting things done. But what can you do with
these baseball fields, and what would that mean?
MR. MOSES: Thank you, Commissioner.
Hello, everyone. Adrian Moses, general manager for
Sports Facilities Companies representing for Paradise Coast
Sports Complex.
Thank you for the kind words. Nothing that we've
done so far has been without support of the two gentlemen
behind me, the county, the county staff and, of course, my
staff on the ground as well.
So I think looking back to when we -- when we took
Page 154 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 146
management of this facility in November of '21, those, for a
little history lesson, will recall that our predecessors were
operating the facility at a huge subsidy to the -- to Collier
County. It took -- it took us just about 18 months to revert
that trend by having a robust schedule booked in with
operators that we trusted but also making changes to how we
operated the facility in terms of making it more efficient.
It was about that time that -- that I introduced the
concept of bringing in a soccer team to supplement the
success that we had predicted was going to come, and I
think that is being replicated into some of the results that
we've had recently at the last TDC meeting reporting record
numbers in terms of revenue, efficiencies, and cost of goods
sold and getting into a rhythm with the amount of events
that we're bringing, improving on efficiencies every year
with our expenses.
As that -- as that, we look forward to the potential of
baseball and/or a field house. We are completely confident
that we would be able to continue the trajectory of the
growth. Obviously, starting -- starting at a beginning point,
but after two or three years getting up to that -- that
efficiency that -- and that momentum that we're seeing right
now, which is just snowballing and utilizing the soccer team
for what it was brought in for, and that was supplementing
the facility over the summer months, which we're seeing
right now in terms of the return from that.
I do have letters from our partners, which I'll give to the
court reporter to be put on record. These are from five
different operators of respected and successful operators of
baseball and softball tournaments with their support for a
facility in Naples. But not only that, these delve into more
Page 155 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 147
detailed operating of how they would use the fields, so in
terms of driving -- driving that economic impact and
those -- that revenue for our tourism industry over the
summer.
Lastly, I'd like to point out the fact that the most
difficult part of my job is inconveniencing all of the local
programming groups, and I mean that because they all ask
us for a certain amount of field time, and the amount of
fields that we have, we're unable to -- we're unable to justify
giving everyone exactly what they want. So we end up
having to compromise and inconveniencing everyone
equally. I know that they hate me saying that, but ultimately
we're not going to make a decision of choosing one
organization over another, and these additional fields will
allow us to ensure that these individual organizations,
starting with the baseball and softball groups, will have a
fair amount of -- a fair -- more than a fair amount of share of
fields in the community.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I want to ask you one
quick question, because I believe I read in some of your
literature that Paradise Coast is or can be one of the premier
amateur sporting venues in the country. Did I misread that?
MR. MOSES: Well, if you're asking me, it is the
premier sporting facility in the country.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what your literature
said, and I just wanted to hear you say that on the record.
MR. MOSES: Oh, absolutely. That doesn't mean that
we rest on our laurels. I've spoken in front of you guys
before saying that we have a top-tier facility. We need to
keep on -- keep on putting our foot -- foot to the throttle in
terms of making sure that we're continually staying on top of
Page 156 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 148
the tree. We were recently recognized in a poll as the top
soccer and lacrosse facility in the country. That was in a
poll of operators and visitors to the facility. And it was
a -- it was a great honor to just be mentioned on that list, but
to top it was good.
But I'm going to pass this on to the court reporter.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can just hand it to
Ms. Patterson.
MR. MOSES: Okay. And I'll pass it on to Jack for
more comment. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good afternoon.
MR. ADAMS: Good afternoon. Jack Adams from
Sports Facilities Companies.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. ADAMS: I won't -- I won't take a lot of your time
restating some of those things, but I'd like to summarize a
couple of them, because the history is important to what
we're suggesting is to going to happen in the future. When
we came aboard, there was a $1.6 million deficit to the park,
operating deficit; not counting what the county spent on its
end, but the operator was in a $1.6 million -- we said we
could -- we said we could get that back to zero, and we said
we could improve on it, and we're heading towards about a
$500,000 surplus this year. Those are dollars that can be
used back for other purposes in the county or for the
ongoing maintenance of the park.
We're suggesting that if you build those baseball fields,
that number is going to be close to $2 million. And the
reason we think it goes up is because the general and
administration costs of operating that park are already being
absorbed. We have a staff. We have an administration
Page 157 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 149
building. We have all of the things that you spend one time
to stand up an operation. You have somebody out there
booking. You have somebody selling sponsorships and so
on.
So the additional revenue is going to be just revenue
minus costs, and then to your point, Commissioner, the
ongoing maintenance of those fields, too, which we have on
our end baked into the number that I just -- I just gave you.
So we're -- we're from the beginning -- that we -- we
did what we said we could do. We said we would find you a
soccer team. We stood here, and we asked for your
permission to negotiate. We think you're -- we think you're
generally really pleased with that outcome. So are we.
We're standing here now saying that if you build those
baseball fields, then we'll achieve the results that you're
speaking of.
I also want to just talk about the indoor building for a
little bit, because we're for that, too. This is all just about
what you want to do and what you can get done. Both of
those things will be very, very productive.
We can make both of those a net positive, and each one
just has a construction cost that you need to consider,
taxpayers need to consider, but we have several projections
we've given you. We can update those for you as needed,
but they will be net operating positive for Collier County.
MR. CLEMENT: Afternoon. I think the only thing
that I'd add is our gratitude for partnering with you. This
isn't our park; it's your park. We're stewards of it. And
whatever you determine is the right next step, we will be in
support of that for sure.
And along the way here, I mean, we work for you. We
Page 158 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 150
wear Collier County lapels when we're here. If you need
support or help dialing in on what those construction costs
are going to be, nobody's developing more youth and
amateur sports complexes, artificial fields, diamonds than
we are around the country. So please leverage us as much
as you need, so the right decisions can be made.
The vision for the park isn't turf. It's not brick and
mortar. The vision is for what happens in the park.
Facilities are great, but they're there to facilitate outcomes
for the local community to spur economic growth and local
development. We see this happen all over the country.
And so, again, we're proud of what we've accomplished
together over the last three years. We're grateful for the
partnership with county leadership, and we also know that
there's a lot of potential left there, and we are here humbly to
take whatever feedback you have and be part of the team as
we help that park get to its potential.
So thanks for the time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro,
do you have a question?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No. I was just going
to make a statement if that was the last speaker.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, we've got, I think,
probably two more. It will be quick. I know Liz Sanders is
here. I don't know if -- she's fine. She runs some hotels, and
they're looking forward to having some summer business.
And Jay Tusa, I had asked him to just spend a quick minute
talking about how successful this has been. I think we
all -- we all have a good understanding of that, and then
what you think the future could hold if this park was
completed.
Page 159 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 151
MR. TUSA: Yeah, happy to be here. Jay Tusa,
Tourism director, for the record.
So I just wanted to chat a little bit about kind of where
we are with our numbers and kind of the importance of
summer visitation and what it means to Collier County, and
not just in relation to the sports complex, but overall. But
while we're talking about the sports complex for this topic, I
think it's very relevant.
Just to kind of give some numbers here, so these are
last year's numbers, so I think they're very relevant because
they're just a year ago. But we had January, February,
March, so our primary, you know, peak season months, our
average daily rate was $485, and then our average daily rate
for June, July, August was $272. So big difference there
from peak season to kind of the low season. So obviously, if
we can start building up that business in the summer
months, we can raise that ADR and make more money, have
more economic impact.
And then as far as room nights sold, January,
March -- February, March, we had 274,000 room nights, and
then for June, July, and August, 195,000. So you can see a
big difference there on those room nights.
So, you know, if you can equate this and you can have,
you know, some additional dollars coming in for revenue
streams for beefing up the summer months, that has a total
economic impact of what we see just in our TDT
collections, which that's a big, you know, win for the county
in reinvesting those dollars, but then also the economic
impact, what it does for our hotel partners, our dining, our
shopping.
So definitely there's some numbers there that we can
Page 160 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 152
certainly crunch, and that is some stuff that we'll see in the
final Hunden report when that comes back to you. But I just
kind of wanted to kind of give you a little, you know, taste
of what we're seeing and what we could possibly see as a
result of the impact on the expansion of this complex.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need a lot
of analysis as to --
MR. TUSA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- what the -- if we do
make this expenditure, what that means in terms of room
nights, and --
MR. TUSA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- sales tax and tourist tax
revenues.
MR. TUSA: And Hunden has all that pro forma. So
they sent us a draft of the report, and that's obviously where
you pulled these slides out of. I'm trying to schedule a
meeting with them to go over the draft, and the Hunden
representative was out on vacation last week, so we're trying
to get that meeting scheduled this week or perhaps
beginning of next week at the latest. So we're anxious to get
that done so we can bring that report back to you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have any
registered speakers? Is that it?
MR. MILLER: Just folks you've already had up, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you,
Chairman.
First I want to thank Bob and his staff for Sunday and
just a fantastic event that you sponsored. I mean, as a
veteran myself -- and Commissioner Kowal was out there as
Page 161 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 153
well -- you hit it out of the park as far as the proper and
professional way to honor veterans and their families, and it
was -- it was repetitive on the big screen, giving out
American flags. And I saw there was a couple of boxes left
afterwards, so you could save those for maybe 4th of July or
an upcoming event. But it was perfect, I mean, sitting there
as a veteran and talking to others. It was noticed and
appreciated that you guys did it perfectly.
Just -- here's a couple things that I'll say. If this is on
the agenda to see if there's an appetite to move forward on
this, I think it goes without saying, but a couple of things
that I'll just say just to maybe give a little bit of a different
perspective or an added perspective.
I actually don't think this passes or that we should
assume that it passes regardless, because I think if we do a
bunch of things wrong, which we have done in the past, it
could be very confusing to citizens.
Number one, yeah, the sports park is five star, but
citizens also know that we had big cost overruns and all
these other things. And even just because it's tourist
dollars -- so I'll just speak for me. As a citizen -- it is
important where the money comes from, but as a citizen I'm
not one who says, well, it's tourist dollars, so if there's
overruns or they waste the money or they decide to do this
or that or whatever, it doesn't matter.
I want to see a county that can manage the money
properly, that can get the right contractors in, that don't
amend their contracts over and over and over again. And if
it's tourism dollars instead of actual taxpayer dollars, I look
at it as it's county money first.
So some things that I think we'd have to make sure we
Page 162 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 154
do properly this time that I think we learned some lessons
from the sports complex is, first of all, the right kind of
marketing campaign not only as to what we're trying to do
and what would it do and, just as the Chairman was saying,
all the right numbers, Jay, showing hotel days and all that,
but also to really make specific -- make it specific to citizens
where the money comes from.
Sometimes we sit here and go, oh, it's tourism dollars.
The average person out there is playing golf or fishing right
now. Alls they hear is that -- you know, I wouldn't be
surprised if the front page of the paper said, "Collier County
Commissioners raise taxes to build baseball fields."
Because don't forget -- and I'm -- you know, I'm just
reminding us of stuff we don't [sic] know -- how many
people were frustrated until Commissioner Hall kicked
everything in gear on Fun n Sun [sic]?
Then we sit here and go, "Oh, we want more baseball
fields." It makes it look like we decided it in five minutes.
So we have to be ready for that, and this would be
something that we would want to ensure did get passed
easily, exponentially, quickly with a really big number
because we had a great plan, we explained to citizens what
we're doing, what we aren't doing. We stuck to a budget.
We made sure that we did a deep dive and we got the right
people in here.
And, you know, on some of the projects that the county
has had recently and even in the past, we've been burned a
few times, and we have to show that we've educated
ourselves and learned from those mistakes.
So I certainly think, you know, if the question here is
do we have support to do this and move forward, that goes
Page 163 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 155
without saying. But we've got to really get it right, or it will
be another one of those great things that got done but had a
whole bunch of sloppiness to it, and I don't think that's
impressive.
You know, the good-news story on the sports complex
goes without saying, the final product looks amazing. But I
will tell you, there's still a percentage out there that go,
"Well, it should look amazing. You spent over a hundred
million dollars on it. It took forever. You did this, that, and
the other."
And some of those things are actually not 100 percent
correct. But perception is reality, and you do have some
citizens out there that say, "Wow, you know, I walk by
portions of the sports complex, and they're packed, and then
I walk by things that a lot of the money was spent on that
maybe aren't as used as -- utilized as they think."
So, you know, I think we move forward, but let's really
make sure that we have a -- that we're conscious that every
citizen out there doesn't necessarily know the difference
between the different pots of tax money, and sometimes
things can run in a certain direction in a real negative way,
and also, we have to make sure that everything that's
brought to this board shows a correct use of those funds with
tight oversight, you know, and minimal cost overruns and
how we're going to manage that.
And then, Jay, of course, your piece proving why this
isn't just a great idea and we want to quote, "finish the park."
I will tell you there's some citizens who think it's
finished. And so if we think that, we have missed
opportunity. We've got some homework assignments to do,
and then all of us to help advertise that and all of as well so
Page 164 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 156
that we get the right message out there. But I think there's
great potential out there for sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I brought this
up, obviously, today, as I said, it seems early, but I want to
make sure we do get it right; that's the objective. I wanted to
make sure that as we move forward, assuming we're going
to move forward, that we put together the right program, that
we meet with the right people, and that we get the public
behind what we're trying to accomplish. And I think today
was a good start. I think having representatives of the
industry that would be taxed on this, I think it's really
important.
And so I'm pleased that they are here and are
supportive at least at this level. I understand that there's not
official support of a 1 percent increase in the TDC, but I
think we'll -- I think we'll get there. I think that they'll
recognize that it's in their best interest to do this.
So nobody's lit up here.
Oh, I'm sorry, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just as -- sitting here doing
some thinking about it, there's got to be a balance between
the fields that we add versus the staff that we have to where
you don't add so many fields you've got to increase your
staff. So there's that balance that I would like to know of.
And, Jason, you mentioned that you-all are good at
figuring out how much the stuff costs to build.
When we get those figures, I would like to throw in two
more years of cost increases so that we have real-life
numbers that when we ever do get there -- and I say that
because I want to know if -- if we're going to do this, if
we're going to do it in perpetuity or what the sunset years are
Page 165 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 157
so we can just take the amount of money.
We're going to generate basically 10 million a year on
the low end. That way we can figure out how long we have
to do it. And I don't know about a referendum. I've never
been involved with one, but do you -- can you explain those
types of things in the referendum to the voters?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. This will be a
question for the county, but yes, we can provide
information. We can put information on our web page that
talks about what it is, but we can't say on the web page, "We
encourage you to vote for this." We can only say, "Here's
information concerning this. It will be on the ballot at a
certain time."
We cannot -- and Mr. Klatzkow will have to weigh in
on this, but we cannot spend taxpayer dollars to promote a
ballot initiative; is that fairly accurate?
MR. KLATZKOW: That's very accurate.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So yes, we can provide
basic information at a very low cost.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I add
something -- piggyback on that?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: A lot of times when
something's added to a ballot, though, it doesn't have 12
paragraphs explaining what it is. So here's what it's going to
say: "Do you approve a 1 percent tax," blah, blah, blah, you
know, period. And if we don't do our homework
correctly -- and like you said, it can't be the county, but
there's other organizations out there that have to do it -- the
average citizen who doesn't even know the judges'
names -- you know, they know who they're voting for for
Page 166 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 158
president and senator, maybe their county commissioner,
and then they're like, judges? School board? They'll get to
that, and it will -- it will sound like a tax increase, if they
haven't done their homework, and that's what we want to
avoid. So that's why it does take a whole lot of preparation.
You know, you can get something on the ballot
quickly, and there's times where things get voted for or shot
down, and afterward when it's explained, citizens go, "Oh, I
didn't know that that's what I voted for."
And when you see 1 percent tax, the average person
doesn't understand TDC. They don't understand this. And
it's like, "Oh, those commissioners."
So that's where -- you know, there's things that we can
do at the county, but there's also things we can't, so that's
where I think we'd really have to be relying on the folks that
are in this audience and others who aren't here. Because the
way it will be written on the ballot to somebody who hasn't
done any homework at all, and if they didn't see any of the
marketing, they're going to -- there will be a big percentage
to just put "no" because it will just look like a tax increase to
them. So we've got to be mindful of that. So that's it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I like this idea, and I really want to take a deep dive
into this and definitely move in a direction where I feel
that -- you know, that's very important, though. Our
taxpayers, our constituents have to understand that this is a
different animal than us raising a tax on them like it was
when we did the surtax for those other projects that we just
talked about, like the mental health facility, where that was
an over -- all board sales tax increase of one penny. So this
Page 167 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 159
is -- you know, this will be restricted to particular
specialties, right? Which will be the parts that are linked to
tourist collection of money.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's important that the
citizens understand that. So basically, these are other
people -- citizens paying for it, not our citizens, in a way,
even though when they go out to dinner and stuff they
might.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a tax on short-term
rentals.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: On short-term rentals.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hotel rooms.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, that would be a
good way to drum up --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what it is.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And lots of other
stuff.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think moving forward,
understanding these baseball fields, softball fields, and I
understand the dilemma we have now with the ones we have
in place is because, you know, we have to take advantage of
the rainy season with these grass fields to re-seed, get them
back to health for the next season, because that's typically
why we shut them down.
Now, I would think AstroTurf fields at this new facility
may be a little bit more at the front, but maybe over the long
run they would be more cost efficient because you wouldn't
have the yearly maintenance on them like you would with
the grass fields, and we wouldn't have to -- we wouldn't
Page 168 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 160
have to shut them down. We can use them all year round.
That makes sense.
But I definitely, definitely -- you know, this is -- we're
talking about getting to the point where we raise the money
to finish this project, and I think the project needs to be
finished. But I definitely feel we need to take a deep dive
on -- you know, I'm not talking about phases when we do
them or don't do them, but I think a deep dive when we do
get around to building the field house, that I think there's
better options on that property then where they have it
originally located.
I'm kind of goofy like this, but I take my days off, and I
walk around this county, and I walk around that park a lot
when I don't let people know I'm there so they don't know
I'm there.
So I walk around. You have those practice fields,
which -- and I've run this by a few people, and they're like,
"Oh, my God. We never thought of that." And you have the
practice fields which are just on the other side of the
stadium, or warmup fields, they call them, I believe, on the
map.
I've never seen anybody warm up on them. They're just
fenced-off grass fields, twice the size of the footprint that is
on the other side of the stadium where it could be a parking
lot that would lead directly in the stadium.
And I've run this by a few people that I think that
would be a better location in the future because we could
take advantage of the bigger footprint, we could force
multiply the building by using extra stands, seating,
overhanging the grassy seating we have on that side of the
stadium already where we don't have real seating, with extra
Page 169 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 161
boxes built into the building itself to sell suites. Because I
know I went up there Sunday, and all the suites were sold
out. And I guess you probably could have sold out some
more suites if you had the availability to do it for the soccer
game Sunday.
And, you know, you don't want to just look at this
one-sided, too. This would -- probably we could make it big
enough that this could be a tri-county evacuation site that
would service Broward County and Fort -- or Miami-Dade if
they have to evacuate from the east to the west. And there
may be dollars out there that we could probably utilize
through federal grants possibly. I don't know. There's
people out there that know a lot more than me that may help
build this particular facility, that -- and then you also look at,
we don't always have to host sporting events. I mean, we
can host boat shows. We can host sportsman shows. We
can have home shows. We can have a lot of things inside
this facility, let alone a place the soccer team could practice
in inclement weather. You know, things like that.
But, you know, I don't want to -- I'm always trying to
think outside the box. So I'm thinking, you know, we could
make this even a much, much better place and a destination
year round for people to come and visit and maybe find
some other dollars in other ways if we make this a
hurricane-safe facility, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you kind of
stole my thunder, but that's okay. I'm listening to what I'm
hearing up here, and I see a general consensus to move
forward with this prospect.
My suggestion to our staff is, as we're moving forward
Page 170 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 162
with this, we begin today to solicit both grant
funding -- federal, state grant funding for the evacuation
facility for the field house and philanthropic dollars for
contributing to the construction of the baseball fields, and
maybe even to the field house itself.
We're not -- we're not opposed to accepting
philanthropic dollars to assist with naming rights and so on
and so forth to assist with this, which will ultimately lay off
a portion of that expense and cut down on the debt
associated with the finalization of this -- of this park.
So I would -- I would like to see us move forward on
those fronts at the same time, because as Commissioner
Saunders said, even though '26 sounds like a long way off,
(snapping fingers) it will be here tomorrow. And so if we
begin those efforts now, we'll be that much further ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So I think
there's general consensus, if not unanimous consensus to
move this along.
I'm going to make a couple suggestions. One is
that -- we each have specific questions. I would suggest that
we just do an email to the Manager of what our questions
are so that they can start to be addressed. They range from,
what is the real tourist impact? What are the costs to
construct these things? But let's get individuals to send
questions to the manager so she can direct those to the right
people to start getting us the answers to that. Those
questions and those answers are going to be important in any
type of a campaign that we have.
As I said, I personally believe there's only one way we
can do this, and that's that sixth penny. Now, the good news
about the sixth penny is that it will generate about -- almost
Page 171 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 163
$10 million a year. I think it's 9.7 was the projection if it
was in place right now.
So over a period of time, there's going to be more
money available. There will be money available to finish
the field house, there will be money available to finish the
fields, and over a period of time there will be money
available for beach renourishment and advertising and a lot
of the things that the tourist industry really has to have.
And the idea that we can rely on federal grants and
even state grants for a lot of this stuff might be fantasy going
forward, and so I think this will help us be prepared to do
the things we need to do to promote tourism and keep it
alive in this community, even if those federal and state
grants start to dry up.
There are other projects that all of us have talked about
where we would like to use some tourist tax dollars. City of
Naples has some issues as well. And so this, I think, solves
a lot of problems, and I'm hopeful that the tourist industry
will recognize that and will go along with it.
So in terms of moving this along, I think maybe -- we
don't have a second meeting in July, but we have a first
meeting in July, so that's about a little over a month from
now. Maybe we can start to get some information from our
staff as to how this would work, and perhaps Jay Tusa can
provide us some information, along with maybe some
estimations from Sports Facilities Management and start to
put this together, because early in the fall, September, first
of October at the latest, my intention is to come back with a
motion to direct staff to develop the ballot language, which
will be fairly quickly -- as a matter of fact, Mr. Klatzkow,
why don't you distribute the ballot language now so we all
Page 172 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 164
know what the ballot says -- but to kick off a campaign to
get this done.
And as it has been said, you know, we're a year and a
half away from an election, but when you put it all together,
it's not as much time as it seems. So I really appreciate the
consideration of the Board.
Ms. Patterson, do you need any further direction from
us, or are you pretty clear on --
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. We understand the
direction. And if the individual commissioners can provide
us any other questions that they have. We'll get the minutes
that we talked about a lot of that, but as you said, anything
else that you want us to be working on in preparation for
July.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Great. If there's
nothing else, we'll move on.
And I want to thank -- I want to thank all of the
participants that came today, especially all of you that came
to my office for meetings every couple weeks for the last six
weeks or eight weeks or so. Again, the goal was to try to
find a solution to a problem, and I think you guys came up
with it, so I want to thank you for that.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, before we move on, we got
correspondence from Clerk's minutes and records that they
don't have a record of the Board's vote on 11A.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I make a motion
that we continue 11A. We're still in the meeting, so we can
do that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
MS. PATTERSON: It was all in favor?
Page 173 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 165
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Maybe just for the record,
what was that item?
MS. PATTERSON: 11A. This is the David Lawrence
item. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So I think I made the
motion. Commissioner Kowal seconded the motion, if we're
going to be official. What's that?
MS. PATTERSON: We kind of lost track of it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we never said
"all in favor?"
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mercifully, no. All in
favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passed
unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you for that housecleaning
item.
That brings us back to 11C. This is the item that we
started before our time-certains regarding the Camp Keais
property. So I see Trinity coming back up to get started on
this one again.
MS. SCOTT: Back into my presentation.
Page 174 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 166
So I believe Commissioner McDaniel was chatting, but
ultimately, where we are is to direct the County Manager to
move forward with preparation of a purchase and sales
agreement with the fair board and also provide direction on
the price per acre.
The current market value -- just a reminder, because
9:30 was a long time ago -- is $20,250 per acre based on
recent appraisals that we have, and the original purchase
price was just over 13,000.
And if the Board desires to sell at less than market
value, then we would recommend working with the fair
board to include a reverter provision and deed restriction on
the property if it were to cease operations as fairgrounds for
the future.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Are you -- do
you, my colleagues, recall my discussion this morning about
where they're going to go? The previous conversations that
I had with them, there is one proviso that I didn't share this
morning.
Unbeknownst to me, our Utilities Department
permitted the current fairgrounds as a wellfield for
freshwater supply for the Northeast Regional
wastewater/water facility, so -- and I caught Dr. George
coming through getting ready to punch wells down the
midway where the fair is now.
So we phased those out. And have them set off
in -- don't -- don't --
MR. DeLONY: I'm going to just be here, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just in case I need
you?
Page 175 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 167
MR. DeLONY: Go ahead. I'll be here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And so the
bottom line is, the relocation of the fair kind of sort of has to
happen.
It would be my preference -- and I will say it out loud.
I have shared with them at the beginning at the board
meetings that I'm one of five. I don't get to make the final
decision. I said that I would recommend that we don't make
money off of the fair. We get taxpayers' money back for the
lands that we're going to sell the fair board and that we
would sell this 100 acres at an equivalent price to what our
costs were, plus interest.
And so that would be -- that would be my motion to go
forward, along with staff's recommendation to allow for that
reverter clause.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We don't have
anybody else lit up here.
Trinity, do you have anything else to add?
MS. SCOTT: I do not, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything else?
MR. DeLONY: Just for the record, Jim DeLony,
interim department head, Public Utilities.
It's critical for our northeast plant that we continue to
plan for these wells to be in that area. We've laid it out.
We've spent money. We've obtained easements.
In fact, we're going to be in work on a -- here pretty
quick in terms of putting a couple in as part of our interim
facilities plan as we move forward with our northeast
service area big plant solution, which I'm going to come
back and speak to you about a couple times in the next
month.
Page 176 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 168
So I would like to accommodate anything that's going
to happen there, obviously, but I don't want the wellfield to
be something we think that is not necessary and needed for
this region of the county. And that's my -- that's the reason I
chose to speak to that today, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Any public comment?
MR. MILLER: We have one registered speaker, Clay
Brooker.
MS. PATTERSON: Clay represents the fair board. He
had to leave, but I did let him know that I will circle back
with him on whatever the Board's decision is, and we'll be
working with him as we move forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel,
I certainly have no issues at all with not profiting from the
fair board as long as all of our costs are included. And staff
and I had some discussion about the reverter provision, and I
assume that that is in -- that the fair -- the fair board, they're
in agreement with that. I think that's critically important.
MS. SCOTT: I did chat with Mr. Brooker this morning
about that, and this is just to give us direction. We'll work
out those details and bring the actual purchase and sales
agreement back to the Board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right, great. You want
to make a motion?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Did you?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did, but I'll do it
again if you want me to.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No. If you made one and
it's clear.
Page 177 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 169
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't
know -- apparently it wasn't, because you're asking me if I
even made one.
I'd like to make a motion that we proceed forward
with --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You know, it's just a
memory issue, you know. That was a long time ago.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You forget one vote
and --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a
motion. I believe we have a second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nobody seconded it
yet.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Let me just -- okay. He
seconded it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a
motion and second. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, sig- --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just want to make a
comment real quick.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand that we have
had previous discussions with the fairgrounds about selling
them for what we have in it. And I don't have any problem
with that because you've already told them that, but going
forward in the future, what is wrong with us taking fair
market price, offering a 20 percent discount -- that's
Page 178 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 170
20 percent equity in a spot -- and taking the positive that we
get and applying it to public stuff, maybe saving the
taxpayers money? I'm just asking the question. I mean, is
that taboo? I'm coming from private business. I hate to sell
anything that I bought and -- that I paid for it.
MR. KLATZKOW: This is your property. You can
sell it for whatever you want to, or not.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's not taboo at all.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. I was just curious
about that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is
just -- these -- you know, preserving -- preserving the legacy
of the swamp buggy, the fairgrounds, and the Sheriff's
Youth Ranch has been a top priority of mine all along. Both
of -- all three of those entities are getting squeezed with the
development, and this acquisition of this piece of property
when Commissioner Saunders and I voted on this
acquisition, it was shown to you that these were the uses that
were allotted on that site. So it -- this is a legacy move for --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- helping those
legacies. And I think your idea, by the way -- if I'm not
mistaken -- I'm not going to say any more right now, but
that's a really good idea.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a
motion and second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
Page 179 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 171
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Thank you.
Item #9C
RESOLUTION 2025-115: A RESOLUTION PROPOSING AN
AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN, ORDINANCE 89-05, AS AMENDED,
SPECIFICALLY AMENDING THE FUTURE LAND USE
ELEMENT AND FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND MAP SERIES
TO CHANGE THE LAND USE DESIGNATION FROM
AGRICULTURAL / RURAL DESIGNATION, RURAL FRINGE
MIXED USE DISTRICT-SENDING LANDS TO
AGRICULTURAL/RURAL DESIGNATION, AGRICULTURAL /
RURAL MIXED USE DISTRICT, 341 SABAL PALM ROAD
RESIDENTIAL SUBDISTRICT TO ALLOW UP TO 423 OWNER-
OCCUPIED DWELLING UNITS WITH AFFORDABLE
HOUSING AND PROVIDING FOR TRANSMITTAL OF THE
AMENDMENT TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
COMMERCE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ±169.19 ACRES
AND IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF SABAL PALM
ROAD, APPROXIMATELY 1.4 MILES EAST OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD IN SECTION 14, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE
26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (GMPA-
PL20230016340) - RESOLUTION 2025-115: MOTION TO
APPROVE TRANSMITTAL TO THE STATE AND TO INCLUDE
AN ADDITIONAL MILE FOR NOTIFICATION BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
Page 180 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 172
LOCASTRO
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that takes us back
to our Item 9s, advertised public hearings. 9A and 9B have
been continued, so that brings us to Item 9C. This is a
recommendation to approve a resolution proposing an
amendment to the Collier County Growth Management Plan
Ordinance 09-85, as amended, specifically amending the
Future Land Use Element and Future Land Use Map and
Map Series to change the land-use designation from
agricultural rural designation, Rural Fringe Mixed-Use
District sending lands, to agricultural rural designation,
agricultural rural mixed-use District 341 Sabal Palm Road
residential subdistrict to allow up to 423 owner-occupied
dwelling units with affordable housing and providing for
transmittal of the amendment to the Florida Department of
Commerce.
The subject property is 169.19 acres and is located on
the south side of Sabal Palm Road approximately 1.4 miles
east of Collier Boulevard in Section 14, Township 50 South,
Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
With that, ex parte from the Board members, please.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yes, plenty of
communication; emails, phone calls.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner
LoCastro.
Page 181 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 173
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I've had emails and
correspondence.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't have any ex parte.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Chairman?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm being
corrected.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I spoke out of turn, too.
I do have ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's start all
over again.
Commissioner Hall -- Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I do. I had a
correspondence.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner Hall,
you've already --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I had meetings and emails
on it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I had meetings and
emails as well.
Commissioner McDaniel, you've already --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir. I had phone
calls, emails, and meetings.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner
LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, emails,
correspondence. I mean, when we say "meetings," meetings
with county staff, I don't think -- I think it's above and
beyond that. So I just had correspondence and emails.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We're all set.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have we got to
swear them in?
Page 182 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 174
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, actually, this is
legislative, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We don't have to do --
MR. YOVANOVICH: But I was happy to hear --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We don't have to do
disclosures.
MR. YOVANOVICH: You don't have to do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's why we all said we
didn't have any.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So that's why.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But it was fun going
through the exercise.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It was. Anyway.
Good afternoon. For the record, Rich Yovanovich on
behalf of the petitioner.
John Rubinton is the representative of the applicant.
Mr. Arnold is our professional planner. Norm Trebilcock is
our traffic consultant, but I believe he has a pinch hitter here
today; Gavin is here. And Tim Hall is our environmental
consultant. And -- is JD here?
MR. ARNOLD: No.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And so what you have before
you today is a proposed Growth Management Plan
amendment on the property that is depicted on your
visualizer. It's 169.19 acres. It's an existing farm operation.
It's an orange grove that has been an orange grove for many,
many, many years. It's disturbed lands that is in the Rural
Fringe Mixed-Use District.
As you all are aware, I think it was in 2002 the Rural
Fringe Mixed-Use District was established in Collier
County. There was -- there were no specific notices
Page 183 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 175
provided to any property owners as part of this process.
And candidly, the owner of this property wasn't paying
attention to what was happening when the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District was established. And as a result, this
property was designated as Sending Lands even though it
was already impacted.
And I think your staff will agree, and in my discussions
with your staff, you know, had they paid attention, this
would have never been designated as Sending Lands in the
first place as far as staff was concerned.
What we're seeking to do is to amend the Growth
Management Plan to establish a -- sorry -- a subdistrict that
would allow for the development of a project that would
have both market rate and for-sale affordable housing units
on the property.
We're requesting a density of 2.5 units per acre on this
property, which is consistent -- and I'll show you an exhibit
with the density allowed around it.
The property is, you know, basically less than a half a
mile from the urban boundary. And we'll get into a little bit
greater detail, and Wayne will go through the greater detail
the surrounding businesses in the area. And our goal is to
provide for sale, as I mentioned, affordable housing for
people making 120 percent or below in the median income.
As you're all aware, Habitat is active in the for-sale
market, but they provide for the 80 percent and below
income thresholds. There aren't any affordable
projects -- for-sale products in the 120 and below category,
which is, candidly, the incomes that most nurses,
firefighters, police officers would qualify for those incomes.
So we would be the first for-sale affordable housing other
Page 184 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 176
than Habitat for Humanity.
Our proposal would limit -- or provide 15 percent of
the dwelling units for sale, which would be 63 dwelling
units, and we'll show you in the master plan where that
would -- where that would be located on the property.
On the visualizer, this is your urban area. This is the
Urban Residential Fringe. The Urban Residential Fringe
allows for two and a half units per acre. That's exactly what
we're asking for on this property. And as you can see, it's a
real -- it's a short distance between this property and the
Urban Residential Fringe. And I said we were going to
create our own subdistrict on this property.
I wanted to point out a couple of things in the -- in the
language that we're proposing. And we have the standard
affordable housing language in there, that this would be a
30-year commitment for affordable housing, so that's in the
Growth Management Plan language, and it will also appear
in the PUD language if this is transmitted and come back to
the Board of County Commissioners.
As far as usable open space, we're meeting -- the
county's requiring 60 percent. If this were receiving lands
for affordable housing, it would only be a 50 percent
open-space requirement, so we're providing additional open
space on this property than what is required in other areas in
the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District.
Tim Hall is going to get into greater detail about the
environmental benefits of this property. But as a highlight,
we're enhancing the water quality. I don't know -- we're
enhancing the hydrology, we're providing wading bird
habitat, and we're increasing the on-site native area because
we're going to be creating a flowway on this property as part
Page 185 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 177
of this project.
And this project does not -- did not require it to go to
the environmental -- the EAC because it's not changing,
really, any of the environmental attributes of the Growth
Management Plan that would require us to go to the EAC. It
is simply providing for affordable housing on already
impacted lands.
This is an employment map. And I'm going to turn this
over to Wayne in a second because I'm starting to lose my
voice, and I don't know why. But this is an employment
map in the area. Physicians Regional is near by, as well as
several other employers in the area.
And as your own staff has indicated -- and you've heard
this many, many, many times -- there's a shortage of
affordable housing in Collier County. There's clearly a
shortage of for-sale affordable housing. And this is
language from your staff report that was provided by
Cormac Giblin.
And we've highlighted that 50 percent of the people
apparently in Collier County are cost burdened with their
housing, meaning they're spending more than 50 percent of
their income on housing. And this will -- it's a small project,
but it's a much needed project, as evidenced by your staff.
Transportation staff has signed off on the impacts of
this proposed project. As Wayne will take you through,
we'll be -- we'll be improving Sabal Palm Road and bringing
it up to county standards from where it currently ends all the
way to our project.
And with that, mercifully, I think Wayne takes over
from here, and hopefully I'll get my voice back before I have
to get back up here, unless you have other questions of me
Page 186 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 178
before I turn it over to Wayne.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. ARNOLD: Good afternoon. Wayne Arnold,
certified planner.
I'll walk you through a few things. On the exhibit is
our location exhibit, which Rich had discussed with you
previously, but I think this goes to one of the central issues
that we have, and that is it's very accessible to Collier
Boulevard and the central part of Naples because, as Rich
pointed out, you have several large employers who are
within a 10-mile radius of the site, and that's something
we've looked at for other Growth Management Plan
amendments and the employment, especially when we have
an affordable housing component that's associated with
them.
So you have an impacted piece of property that has
literally zero environmental value today. And Tim's going
to touch on it, but today you basically have a free-flowing
agricultural operation that pumps off site into the
surrounding wetland preserve areas that's essentially
untreated agricultural water. So what happens when we
actually do put urban development on this, it is going to
have a good, safe, and high-quality nutrient-loaded water
management system that will treat that water before it
discharges off the site. So there's little ecological value
there. And Tim will talk about that.
And then, of course, just the fact that we're less than a
mile from the urban boundary on lands that, I think, as Rich
mentioned, were probably mischaracterized. You know,
Rich and I came out of the county government system about
the same time as the Rural Fringe process was happening,
Page 187 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 179
and we were retained by a lot of the developers to work
through the process to help identify the appropriate
designation for their property. And I think in this particular
case you had a group of orange groves -- growers who didn't
really probably know of and understand that process
because, typically, lands like this were not designated
Sending Lands. Those are supposed to be your most
environmentally sensitive lands, and this clearly is not.
We have filed a companion PUD rezoning with this
comprehensive amendment. And in this particular process,
we're asking for you to transmit this plan amendment to the
state. And we've filed the companion PUD, and hopefully
these come back together sometime later this fall.
If you transmit, you see what state agencies, if any,
have any comments or questions, and we have an
opportunity to resolve any comments that you-all may have
as well.
But on the screen is our PUD master plan that has been
under staff review, and I'll just point out some of the
highlights of it. Again, the project's about 169 acres. We
made the commitment that 15 percent of the units were
going to be for-sale affordable. So the project is 100 percent
for sale, which I think is unique, if I'm not mistaken, to
anything other than Habitat, as far as I know, with regard to
affordable housing.
So we've identified residential areas which are
highlighted by R, which is throughout a good portion of the
site. We have residential; we have lakes. We also have an
area in the northeast corner that will have its independent
access, but that's where we've identified the place where
these affordable townhome units will be constructed for
Page 188 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 180
sale.
There are two access points to the project, one serving
the townhomes, another central to the site serving the
balance of the site.
One of the things that Tim's going to talk to you about,
too, is the fact that we have a large flowway system that will
be created that will take some of the flows of water that shed
to the south across Sabal Palm Road, and we will be
cleaning that water and using it as part of our water
management system, enhancing the one small wetland
preserve that is on the site in that location.
There's also going to be a buffer with a fence that
separates us from the environmentally designated areas
farther to the east, so you create this interface between the
wildlife that might be using the area and our development
tract. That's something that's handled throughout parts of
your fringe and the NRPAs.
We have standard permitted uses, but you can see from
our list here we have single-family, two-family, and
townhouse, and all of those are for-sale product only. We've
also made provisions for the typical accessory uses, and in
our preserves we made standard language in there for
mitigation and nature trails, et cetera.
One of the other public benefits that accrue from
here -- right now if you drive out Sabal Palm Road, and I'm
sure most of you have, you'll see a portion that's near what I
still call Winding Cypress that has a sidewalk constructed on
the south side of the road, and then you've got the hedge. So
what we've committed to do is a little bit farther to the east,
you actually have -- the project will pick up from where the
county maintenance currently ends, and that will be
Page 189 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 181
extended across the frontage of our property, and that will
include redoing the surface of the roadway as well as
installation of the sidewalk on one side of the road.
I don't know if now would be a good time for Tim to
come up, Rich, and maybe go through it. I've got some
other, you know, planning considerations that I can at least
put on the record. So maybe I'll do that before Tim comes
up.
So just to talk about some of the other things and to
wrap them up, from a planning perspective we're
creating -- you know, it's not an isolated area. It makes good
sense. We're doing some public benefits. The creation of
the natural flowway. We're creating the wildlife buffers I
mentioned. We're going to provide 60 percent open space
on the site. Ninety percent of our vegetation on site will be
preserved. And we're also going to be improving Sabal
Palm Road with the sidewalk. And then we're also going to
be installing a regulated water management system which
benefits, obviously, the public and the environment.
So let me turn it over to Tim and let
him -- water/sewer? Oh, we will, obviously, be providing
water and sewer, so we'll be expanding Sabal Palm Road to
include water and sewer, yeah.
Thank you, Rich.
With that, Tim, if you want to maybe come up and run
through your --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a quick
question. Wayne --
MR. ARNOLD: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- before you go.
Did you -- did -- I didn't see you express much of the
Page 190 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 182
improvements to Sabal Palm Road unless that was included
in that first site plan.
MR. ARNOLD: It's not included in the site plan. We
have a commitment that's in the actual PUD document that
ties us to that exhibit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. HALL: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Tim
Hall with Turrell, Hall & Associates.
I was asked to provide kind of an environmental
summary for the changes in the project over what it is
currently as an active orange grove, agricultural operation,
versus the potential impacts that might be associated with
the change to development.
And so there's a list here on the screen in front of you.
One of the things is the ability to create better water quality
for the surrounding preserve and conservation areas outside
of the project footprint. As Wayne had said, the current use
on the property, the agricultural is under rules that were in
effect several decades ago, so the unrestricted pumping that
they have to keep the groves hydrated correctly allows for
untreated water to be put into those adjacent preserves.
With the conversion to the -- to the residential development,
that stormwater management generated on the site will be
treated on the site before it's allowed to flow off.
And companion with that is the changes in hydrology.
Because of the pumping and the way pumping is done for
agricultural operations, you get a hydro period that's very
flashy, meaning the water table can go up and down very
quickly based on how much water they're pumping out.
Under the residential development, that outflow is
actually regulated to a maximum amount of cubic footage of
Page 191 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 183
water over a given period of time. So it tries to reestablish
or mimic the natural flow of water that would have been in
place prior to the agricultural uses.
As part of the flowway and enhancement activities that
we're doing on the site, there will be some wading bird
foraging that will be better and more natural than currently
occurs. There is some wading bird foraging that happens in
the ditches on the property. Those ditches are subject to
herbicide and pesticide applications, and so with that going
away and the creation of a kind of more natural marshy area,
there will be some enhanced wading bird foraging
communities.
The native preserve preservation, there are two areas on
the site that aren't either developed, cleared, or in the
agricultural use. Both of those are very heavily infested
with exotic vegetation. The exotic vegetation will be
removed, natural plantings will be reestablished there, and
the end result will be that the actual native habitat available
on the site is going to increase from about two and a half
acres to just under 10 and a half acres. And those areas will
also be protected into the future with conservation
easements that will be dedicated to the county.
And then something that came up under the staff
review as well as some of the reviews with the wildlife
agencies is trying to separate the development from those
adjacent preserve areas.
So this 30-foot landscape buffer basically means that
from the property line in at least 30 feet there will be only,
kind of, landscaping or yard areas. No actually residential
roadways or anything like that within that first 30-foot
buffer. And then the 10-foot fence and all will help to also
Page 192 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 184
preclude any adverse interactions between the residents in
the neighborhood and the local wildlife. In conjunction with
this, as it moves forward through the wildlife agencies, there
will be other kind of internal things that will be required
with the residents to avoid attracting bears into the property,
things like controlling outdoor pet feeding, barbecue grills,
bird feeders; that kind of stuff will all be kind of more
strictly regulated than it might be in other neighborhoods to
avoid providing a food source that would draw those
animals into the -- into the residential thing.
The other thing that 30-foot buffer does is it actually
also provides some increased protection from fire. Those
conservation areas could either -- either under a prescribed
burn or an accidental burn could catch on fire, and that
30-foot buffer provides some safety from those conservation
areas to the adjacent residents as well. And so that was my
quick summary. If you have any questions...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Since you're an
expert on hydration as well, talk to me about the flow
under -- and I'm joking about that, by the way. You know a
lot about hydration or rehydration.
But talk to me about the culvert scheme underneath
Sabal Palm Road. Because there was a movement afoot
many years ago to rehydrate the south part of the North
Belle Meade, $30 million pump station, and over 75, and
rehydrate that area to the north of this and enhance that flow
of that water that goes all the way, ultimately, theoretically,
into Rookery Bay and such.
So could you talk a little bit about the sizing of the
culverts and the capacity of water movement there?
Page 193 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 185
MR. HALL: And JD would be better able to respond
to the actual sizing. I'm not sure if they've actually finalized
what the size of those culverts will be, but the intent will be
to help move water from the north side of Sabal Palm to the
south side and essentially help with the -- with flooding
concerns to the north but also to help with hydrating some of
the areas that you have been cut off from -- one way or
another to the south in terms of restoring more of that -- that
flow in a more natural type of system.
Sabal Palm kind of acts like a dam or berm. And so
enhancing the ability for water to get -- to get under there
under flood type conditions is going to help both sides of the
roadway to release and drop water levels on the north side
but provide additional water to the south when it's needed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who's JD?
MR. HALL: JD is the civil engineer for the project.
Sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay, okay. I
just -- because that's something that's a huge -- because we
already know there are flood issues on the north side of
Sabal Palm, and we know that if -- if, in fact, those
rehydration efforts come out to the north -- or to the south
half of the North Belle Meade, then there's even going to be
more water coming in there. And I need to make sure that
modeling component is sufficient to be able to move that
volume of water out.
MR. HALL: Yeah. Well, the three pump stations that
they did on the Miller Boulevard --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. HALL: -- Fakaunion and Prairie Canals. Filling
in those canals, establishing the pump stations is definitely
Page 194 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 186
changing the hydrology in that area. They've been in place
for a couple years, but I don't think it's been there long
enough or under enough different types of annual rainy
cycles to know what the -- all the effects will be this far out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Those were
over in the Picayune.
MR. HALL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And they haven't
been able to run the east/west pump yet simply -- well, only
on a limited basis, because they haven't -- they haven't
the -- they haven't had the backfill needed that they wanted
to do.
I'm talking about a different effort almost in line with
Benfield Road. They were talking about a pump station to
move water out of that canal on the north side of 75 and then
rehydrate from the north to better -- to move surface water
down through and not directly into the Gordon River.
MR. HALL: And I know that -- I know that as part of
the modeling and all that they're looking at, I know he's
looking at that, but I didn't do any of that modeling, so I
don't know what that is.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Mr. Yovanovich, anything else?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No. That's it. I will point out,
Commissioner McDaniel, obviously, we'll have JD here at
the PD [sic] consideration. But at the Planning
Commission, the county's water management expert did
testify that this project was consistent with the efforts you
were just describing.
With that, that's a brief presentation from us. We can
Page 195 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 187
answer any questions you may have in addition to whatever
Mr. --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Is Mr. Bosi coming
to the podium, or can you?
MR. BOSI: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Thanks.
This is a perfect example of where we have way too
much misinformation out in the public. I mean, it's great to
see all the presentations that you put on, but the negative
with what you-all just said is you make it sound like all
that's automatically already approved. There's still a vetting
process that has to happen.
This is in my district, and I can tell you there's an
explosion of citizens, of course, when anything is being
proposed for built -- to be built who don't want it, who think
we've already approved this.
I mean, my in-box is full of emails that say -- and
social media -- "I can't believe the commissioners are
allowing a 423-unit, you know, structure to be built." We
haven't done any of that, right? There's been no NIM. It
hasn't been all the normal -- or whatever is required.
So alls we're voting on today is to change the Growth
Management Plan, and then it will continue. I mean, and
that's where I say to Mr. Bosi, with your expertise, I'd like
you to separate rumor from fact because, you know, there's
petitions out there from citizens saying "Please stop this."
Like, "Shovels are going in the ground tomorrow." That's
none of what we're doing right now.
So if -- with your expertise, if you could, and briefly,
explain to the average citizen or reporter who's out there
Page 196 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 188
watching us right now, and to all the emails that we're
getting, what we're doing right now and what we're not
doing.
And that's why sometimes when it's, like, "Well, then
we're going to put culverts, and we're going to do this."
Okay. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not, you know.
So that's where, you know, as Commissioner Saunders
always says, "Words matter."
So that's all your proposal. We're not voting on any of
that. Now, it all sounds great in some areas and maybe not
great.
And the other thing I would also just say -- and you
probably could speak to this -- is a lot of times citizens think
the answer to not having something built on a piece of
property is Conservation Collier. Conservation Collier is
not a program to buy real estate to prevent an apartment
complex from being built. Conservation Collier
exists -- and we have Brad Cornell in the audience -- to
identify a piece of property that is environmentally sensitive,
not that once had a bald eagle that flew over it five years ago
or somebody thought they saw a panther three years ago. It
has to meet very specific criteria.
So when citizens sort of beat us up, that -- "Oh, we
haven't used Conservation Collier to preserve this land," I
think what all of us would say up here is, "Come to the
podium here and explain to us why this piece of land would
qualify for Conservation Collier." Just because it's green
and has trees and you don't want to see something built on
it -- you know, Commissioner McDaniel says this multiple
times -- people have the right to build land that they own on
[sic]. Our job is to regulate and control it.
Page 197 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 189
But let me just go back to my original question.
Explain to us in your terms, Mr. Bosi -- because this is your
area of expertise -- what are we doing today, and what are
we not doing? We know that answer, but I want to hear
what you and I talked about in my office.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
Today's hearing is a request to transmit this Growth
Management Plan amendment to the State of Florida
Department of Commerce, so you're not approving anything.
You're not -- there's no PUD that's even associated with this.
That comes at a later stage. You're simply asking staff to
transmit the components, the density and the intensity that's
associated -- and the commitments that are associated with
their subdistrict -- to propose a subdistrict for this 169-acre
parcel of land.
And it's a large-scale amendment, meaning that it has a
transmittal hearing, which we're at, and then it will have
adoption hearing. At the adoption hearing, we'll marry the
PUD -- so the specifics of the PUD and a lot of the
improvements that are going to be provided for -- which are
contained in the PUD are going to come.
So today there's no -- there's nothing other than we're
asking you to transmit this document, this Growth
Management Plan amendment to Tallahassee. Department
of Commerce will look at it, provide us comments after 30
days from all the state reviewing agencies. We'll take those
comments. We'll coordinate with the applicant. We'll
schedule for a Planning Commission hearing, and then we'll
move forward with a Board of County Commissioners
hearing.
And let me tell you a little bit about the process before
Page 198 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 190
you even got here. When we originally had this submittal
come in, staff had some concerns with it, because one of the
things that we recognized is -- what Commissioner
McDaniel was referring to is in 2023 when we adopted the
Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District amendments, we created
the North Belle Meade hydrological area, and this is within
that overlay. And that overlay wants to promote sheet flow
from the north to the south and, with a pumping station at
75, get it over 75, bring it back down to the southern area,
which is the Benfield Road area, and have that sheet flow
continue, because that's all sending land area. So this is an
area that really wants to promote that historical flow.
One of the things that we were concerned with, because
this is an environmentally sensitive land, but this land -- the
169 acres is almost, you know, is a farm field, an active
farm field. It's not environmentally sensitive. Probably -- I
agree, it probably should have had a neutral designation at
most.
But when we came in, the original application, it didn't
have a 30-foot buffer that separated the sending lands from
where the development's actually going to begin. That's one
of the things staff worked through with the applicant. The
applicant finally agreed with that.
Also, they had a 55 percent open space. We asked
them if they could -- if they could get to this -- a 60 percent.
They finally agreed to that as well.
We went into the Planning Commission with a
recommendation of denial because we thought that the
density -- we thought the density was a little too high. It
was suggested at 2.66 units per acre. We wanted it at 2.5,
the maximum that you could get in that urban transitional
Page 199 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 191
area, to keep that consistency. At the Planning Commission,
they agreed to that as well.
So a lot of those benefits that are in this and where staff
is now supporting was done just because of negotiation
between staff, and the applicant's willing to work with staff
and understand some of the positions that we have.
We also recognize that, as described, some of the
benefits that you really get will be contained in the PUD,
talking about the culverts and improving that sheet flow that
currently Sabal Palm provides a hindrance to, but also the
improvements, the utility extension, the sidewalk
along -- and within less than a mile from the urbanized area
with a unique commodity.
We do recognize -- and Cormac Giblin, our Housing
and Economic Development director, is back there if you
need to speak with him.
The 15 percent commitment to for-sale affordable
housing is a unique commodity. I mean, like we said,
Habitat's the only other one. We've never had a for-profit
developer suggest that. So we also know that that has a real
benefit of 63 units that are going to be made available for
sale to individuals who are, you know, working within this
community.
For all those different reasons, and all those sequence
of events, what comes to you now is tied up in a tighter bow.
But what you guys are doing would be simply directing staff
to transmit this to the state, get some comments from state
agencies, if there's any relevant comments related to their
proposal, and then it's going to come back, we're going to
marry that PUD, because the specifics, the dos, the details
where the devil normally is is in that PUD. You'll get to see
Page 200 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 192
that -- the PUD after we schedule a Planning Commission
hearing.
And then, finally, probably sometime November or
December of this year, you'll be asked to take action at an
adoption hearing. So that's where this will all lead to, but
today's is just transmit it to the State of Florida.
And like I said, there's been a lot of work done, there's
been a lot of modifications through this process to get to
where we are now. I think we have a good project. And
we're -- staff is recommending approval asking you for -- to
direct us to transmit to the state.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So there -- to correct
the record, there was a NIM that happened way back
when --
MR. BOSI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- but it wasn't -- was
it attended robustly or not so much or --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, it was well attended. And
by the way, we'll have another NIM because it will be more
than a year before we get back to you again. So we'll have
another NIM.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. And that's
what I would just, in conclusion, like you to outline is when
it comes back from the state -- and you sort of have -- but I
want you to tie it up in a tighter bow -- the steps that are left.
There's still plenty of public comment left. The public
feedback that I've gotten, they think we've sort of
circumvented the whole process; that they didn't hear about
anything, they've never had a chance to come to the
commissioner meeting and -- you know, and give any kind
of public comment, and today we're approving for shovels to
Page 201 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 193
go into the ground tomorrow.
So you sort of just said it, when it comes back from the
state, like Mr. Yovanovich said, probably another NIM, it
goes to the Planning Commission, plenty of public
comment. So pick it up from there so that we can separate
rumor from fact.
MR. BOSI: And as you said, when it comes back from
the state, we will -- they'll schedule another neighborhood
information meeting and advertise, as well as provide
property notification letters for that NIM. And then we'll
schedule the Planning Commission. That will require
another property notification as well as -- property
notification as well as the advertisement. People will have
every opportunity to come.
The first NIM -- or not the first NIM, but the first
Planning Commission member [sic], we only had one
person speak. There was only one person who -- one of the
public showed up -- one person in public showed up. They
weren't in support of the process.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Mike? Mike, that's the wrong
project. There was nobody there against it.
MR. BOSI: Oh, that's right.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's a different project.
MR. BOSI: There was -- actually, there was no public
comment on this.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But some of the
public think that was it, that they missed it, and now, you
know, it's running rampant.
The project -- the details that you're explaining here
about the project, we will have a chance to say we like or
don't like it; so will the Planning Commission. So none of
Page 202 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 194
that has even happened yet. I just wanted to be specific and
on the record, because my constituents that are against this
project are already at Step 10 thinking we somehow went
around everybody's back, and we're approving today for it to
be built, and that's not the case. We're approving for this to
go to the state and then come back. And that's something
where I think, you know, based on property rights and
whatnot, it's not something that we could hold up. That
give -- they have every right to request this.
MR. BOSI: They have every right. And as we said,
Planning Commission will be notified, public notice as well
as property owner notification, and then your final adoption
hearing will have the advertisements for time and date of
that hearing.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Will the lineal
footage of notice be extended by the time this comes back
for a second NIM?
MR. BOSI: That's -- and I was going to bring that up.
That probably is going to be -- it's going to be running tight.
If you would want to impose an additional mile for the
notification, that would be -- I think would probably be a
better safeguard than trying to make sure we get through the
LDC process.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Is that something we
can decide now?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Yovanovich, do you
have any issue with that?
MR. YOVANOVICH: And I spoke to Commissioner
McDaniel about this. If it's not adopted, we're happy to go
Page 203 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 195
with the proposed --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner
McDaniel --
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- one mile.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- do you want to make a
motion on --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you make a motion to
move this forward, add that to your motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, we still
have public hearing and everything.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But I just want to
make sure, because that was one of the big deficiencies
which causes a lot of mis- and disinformation with the entire
process so that we're -- so that we're actually notifying the
people, I mean --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller,
anybody -- anybody registered to speak?
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we have eight
registered public speakers for this item. Your first speaker
is -- I'm going to ask the --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's do this, because we
do need to take a court reporter break.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we come back
at 3 o'clock. That's 17 minutes; that should give us enough
time. We'll break until 3 p.m.
(A recess was had from 2:44 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go ahead and wrap
Page 204 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 196
up this particular item.
MR. MILLER: Do you want to continue with our
public speakers now, Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Let's go ahead
and --
MR. MILLER: I'd like to ask our speakers to queue up
and use both podiums in the interest of time. Your first
speaker is Bonnie Murphy. She'll be followed by Christine
Briggs.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You guys are real
troopers. You've been here all morning and all afternoon.
MS. MURPHY: Good morning. This is a learning
experience for me because I've never done this before. But I
want to thank the commissioners for hearing me out.
I became a resident of the Tamarindo community in
July of 2024, relocating from my previous home in the Ole
community in Lely. My move was prompted by ongoing
structural maintenance and issues between 2019 and 2024. I
was burdened with more than $25,000 in assessments for
roof, stucco, balcony, and other unastainable incomes [sic].
Prior to purchasing in Tamarindo, I conducted a
thorough research and was encouraged by D.R. Horton's
reputation as a builder. The home I purchased is well
constructed, but as many homeowners in our community
have discovered, the broader development faces serious
drainage and infrastructure issues.
I want to sincerely thank you all for your support in
ensuring the builder takes responsibility for resolving these
problems. Without the intervention, this could be
devastating to many of us who own there by not allowing
the COs.
Page 205 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 197
Now I must raise a new and pressing concern regarding
the proposed development along Palm Sabal Road,
particularly in the light of zoning changes being considered.
My primary concern is additional development in this
location may intensify my drainage issues and increase the
risk of flooding in my Tamarindo community.
I purchased in Tamarindo community because I was in
a Zone C, and I was also told I didn't need flood insurance.
If I need to get flood insurance, that's going to be a financial
strain.
I'm not asking you to move an airport. I looked at this
property before I bought there and thought it was safe to buy
there, so I really don't want this zoning changed.
Let me be clear, I fully support diverse housing
options, including those for low income and fixed residents;
however, in the 34114 ZIP Code, we're already
accommodating substantial growth with a wide range of
options available at all income levels. We have Echo
Condenza with 418 units of affordable and senior housing.
Creative Commons, you have 107 senior living options.
Songbird by Habitat, there's 52 single-family homes.
There's a well-established community. You have
Tamarindo. You have Hacienda Lakes. You have Verona
Walk. You have Fiori Naples opening in 2025. With all
these additional housing, it's kind of scary. The total rentals
right now that are available in the 34114 ZIP code are
approximately 388. There's 165 houses, 309 apartments,
and 40 condos. These prices range from 4,500 a month to
1,200 a month.
Beyond housing, I urge the Board to consider the
environmental impacts of continued rezoning and
Page 206 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 198
construction. The land surrounding Palm Sabal Road is
home to a fragile ecosystem, including the critically
endangered Florida panther. Continued development in
these sensitive areas leads to habitat destruction, disrupts
wildlife corridors, and weakens the region's already stressed
environmental systems. Once this natural land is gone, it
can not be reserved.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need you
to wrap up.
MS. MURPHY: Okay. This issue goes beyond just
infrastructure inventory. It is about sustainability,
responsible growth that considers the long-term health of
our environment, our infrastructures, and our residents.
As an example, I recently purchased -- I recently
experienced --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you could kind of get to
your conclusion. We really need to move on.
MS. MURPHY: Okay. Okay. Well, anyway, I just
don't want this built. There's not enough emergency rooms
and things to take care of me when I am sick now. I had a
five-week wait on a test that I needed. We just don't have
the infrastructure to do it.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christine Briggs,
and she'll be followed by Brad Cornell.
MS. BRIGGS: Thank you for the honor of speaking to
you.
I speak on behalf of over 680 residents who, in the last
48 hours, signed a petition to keep the Sabal Palm property
as sending, agriculture, and not transition it into
million-dollar homes. Which is what most of it will be.
Page 207 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 199
Please consider tabling this item and investigate
whether Conservation Collier could possibly pick it up even
though, admittedly, they'd have to do a lot of remediation
given the previous agricultural use.
I also think you might want to reconsider this in light of
Florida's sudden wake-up realization that it's about to lose
what used to be a $7 billion industry in 2021 of citrus
orchards. They have supposedly committed $190 million to
help the independent citrus grower. So it seems to me it
would make great sense for us to look at another option that
keeps this as a sending property and keeps the orchard,
maybe as part of it, as also an educational opportunity as
well as a functioning orchard.
The decision that you make -- and I understand now
that you are just approving -- I'm not quite sure what you're
approving, but I think you're approving to change the
designation from sending to receiving or perhaps just to
send it up to the state for consideration. But your decision,
as this woman so articulately spoke before me, potentially
harms thousands of residents.
To the family that owns the property, I understand the
desire to sell. Like me, you're old. You'd like to reap the
benefits for yourself and your heirs, although only two of
the five owners live in Naples. The other three are in
Illinois. But the decision that benefits you potentially harms
so many of your neighbors. So it's worth looking at if
Conservation Collier could buy it, and then everybody could
be happy.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Brad Cornell.
Page 208 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 200
He'll be followed by Angela Osceola.
MR. CORNELL: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and
Commissioners. I'm Brad Cornell, and I'm here on behalf of
Audubon Western Everglades and Audubon Florida. We
appreciate the opportunity to address this large-scale Growth
Management Plan amendment issue.
Audubon is opposed to this GMP amendment changing
the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District Natural Resource
Protection Area, or NRPA, Sending Lands, the 169 acres, to
a residential subdistrict with 423 housing units where
currently only four are permitted. We agree with the
original staff analysis demonstrating a lack of consistency
with the intent of the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District
NRPA current designation. That staff analysis is in the
Planning Commission staff report which recommends
denial.
Audubon Western Everglades, in collaboration with
Collier County, helped create the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use
District from 1999 to 2003, including the current NRPA
designation for this parcel.
The 1999 final order from Governor Jeb Bush was to
protect agriculture, habitat, and private property. The
NRPA designation is supported by current data and analysis
which shows its regional context surrounded by permanent
conservation preserves and the Picayune Strand State Forest.
The proposed revision to place 423 residential units in
this conservation landscape is urban leapfrog sprawl
unsupported by public facilities and in conflict with the
wetlands and imperiled species, including Florida panthers,
wading birds, and Red-cockaded woodpeckers, which are
dependent on prescribed fire in this area.
Page 209 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 201
Further concerns over compatibility with surrounding
conservation lands include the lack of adequate bear-wise
and Florida panther community management plans.
Only 30-foot buffer from regular prescribed fire on all
these conservation lands, the need for which was
demonstrated this past week with three wildfires burning in
this region. Thirty feet is nothing. Corkscrew Swamp
Sanctuary needs a half mile for our prescribed fires from
other -- at least for other developments.
The reduction of littoral planting requirement from the
current 30 percent of the stormwater lake surface to only
7 percent will degrade water quality and increase risks of
harmful algal blooms.
Audubon recognizes the need for affordable housing in
this area, but that should not undermine long-term land-use
conservation plans by placing ill-sited urban development in
conservation lands. There are more appropriate urban sites
for affordable housing.
If the Board wants to approve this, you should require
them to buy 419 TDR credits to entitle that and increase the
affordable housing to 30 percent rather than 15 percent,
which is what you did on the Fiddler's Creek Section 29
apartments.
Again, we are not in support of this. Thank you very
much for your consideration.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Angela Osceola.
She'll be followed by Victor Jarikov.
MS. OSCEOLA: Good afternoon, my fellow
Commissioners. I'm here, obviously, opposing this.
No one has been talking about -- obviously there's a
Page 210 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 202
drainage issue within Tamarindo community, as my fellow
Tamarindo community members have already -- had
mentioned that, but no one's talking anything about what the
traffic increase is going to be with the 423 homes times two
times all of the deliveries and everything else.
There's no light there. There's going to be much more
added traffic. We only -- you know, there's only one way in,
one way out from Sabal Palm. And I've never heard
anything about that being addressed with the light, who is
going to, you know, put that in, how that's going to work, if
this community is -- is going to be in development.
Also, we as Tamarindo -- from what I understand, we
weren't allowed to disperse floodwaters into the area that
they're proposing. So I'm not sure how they can do that if
we weren't allowed to as a community. Ours is going into
the Henderson Canal which runs along 951, and it already
can't really take on the water that we have, our stormwater,
and the drainage issue that we have.
Furthermore, there's -- there's -- there's ditches and
culverts there that were -- you know, we have pictures and
proof during some past storms of stuff, you know, that
was -- it was pretty high. And so I understand that they
want to put a sidewalk and -- but, you know, enhance some
things, but nothing's really been said about the traffic that's
going to occur and our current issue that's going to be -- not
going to be handled overnight with the issue with the
drainage within Tamarindo, which in there lies, if they don't
have -- if they disperse their water, which is going to be
behind Verona Walk, then that means, you know -- or if it
doesn't get approved because we weren't approved to do
that, then it will have to go into the Henderson Canal if that
Page 211 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 203
is not something that is approved. So that's -- that's my
concern.
The traffic, the drainage issues, and, you know -- it
would be leaving us waiting a long time to even -- to get in
and out of our communities. And nothing has been rectified
or really given to us as direction on how this is going to be
handled from -- from our current developer within
Tamarindo. So this is not something that's going to be done
anytime soon, and I just am here in opposition of this new
development.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Victor Jarikov,
and he'll be followed on Zoom by Elizabeth Barrick.
MR. JARIKOV: Hello. My name is Viktor Jarikov. I
represent mostly myself but also some of my neighbors from
Morgan Road. We live on 316 Morgan.
My point's going to echo the previous presenter.
People are concerned about the drainage and the traffic, for
the most part. Traffic probably No. 1 and drainage No. 2.
Right now I don't think -- we tried to count, maybe we
have far less than 100 homes using Sabal Road right now,
people that live there, not counting Tamarindo. So
Tamarindo's more.
So adding 423 more homes, it will probably increase
the number of dwellers on that road, I don't know, four
times, five times, and with no improvements to the road, just
extending it further out, especially not having a traffic light
and only having a right turn. So you're going to have
everybody who goes south, they have to do a turnaround.
So if you have 100 cars or 200 cars or 300 cars, well, or
Page 212 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 204
more, that's going to create long lines. Right now there's the
Haitian church that's on Sabal Palm. When they dissemble,
there's usually a pretty long line of people waiting to get out
from Sabal on Collier, which is already objectionable.
I'm told that the Tamarindo -- one of the Tamarindo
conditions were to -- that the traffic light was going to be
installed already just for the sake of Tamarindo's
community, which was not done. The word on the street is
that the county did not provide their half of the funding for
it. I don't know if the Tamarindo provided theirs, but that's
the word on the street about it.
Okay. The second is the drainage. This is a swamp
area. It's a seasonal swamp. All this area is mostly under
water for half a year. I mean, our lot -- three-quarters of our
lot is under water for half a year. About half of my
neighbors' -- our neighbors' lots are under water. That's
normal. But it also makes us vulnerable to any obstruction
in drainage.
So if anything -- you know, we noticed an uptick,
probably, of water levels after Hacienda and as Azur came
up, so we are afraid that this may lead also to more
problems. And even as it is, Sabal Palm does not drain
correctly. If you look at it from Morgan Road to middle of
the -- about half mile down the Sabal Palm, the water just
stands. About three feet of water stands in the ditch. It
doesn't go anywhere. So only the top layer would drain, and
then the rest just is standing water. So that ditch and -- the
culvert system and the ditch are not really relieving it.
So those are our concerns. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Commissioners, our remaining
Page 213 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 205
speakers all join us via Zoom. First up is Elizabeth Barrick,
and she'll be followed by Peter Monti.
Elizabeth, you're being prompted to unmute your mic.
I see you've done that. You have three minutes.
MS. BARRICK: Yes. Hello. Thank you for allowing
us to all speak. My name's Elizabeth Barrick. I live in
Verona Walk, and I'd like to echo everything every other
speaker has said in opposition to this development,
especially about the drainage.
Tamarindo has come to Verona Walk looking to be
able to drain into our ponds, our retention ponds. I doubt
very seriously Verona Walk is going to okay that.
Their second choice in the meeting we had with them
said they would like to put a pipeline down towards Sabal
Palm and sheet flow the water down that way. Well, if this
development happens, will they be able to do that? They've
already been turned down for Henderson Creek. So now we
have, instead of two communities in the Sabal Palm area
concerned about drainage, Tamarindo and Verona Walk,
now we want to add a third, and to me, I see no benefit to
this.
I looked on Realtor this morning. In the 34114 ZIP
code, there were almost 800 houses for sale. There is no
benefit to building more new homes when there's plenty of
availability of real estate sitting on the market, and not to
speak of hundreds of apartments that are being built.
So I see no value to anyone in continuing with this
development. And I think I'm echoing the sentiment of
probably 98 percent of the residents of Collier County when
it comes to unbridled development where there's not a true
need for it.
Page 214 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 206
And additionally, the wildlife -- you know, we've had
bears in Verona Walk because they're being squeezed down
for their territory, and, you know, we're destroying the
environment that brings people to Florida to begin with.
We're not coming here for jobs. You know, we're coming
here because we love the nature, and I think preserving it
should be a priority over unneeded development.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Peter Monti, and
he will be followed by Laura Gelli Wittek.
Peter, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. I see
you've done that. You have three minutes, sir.
MR. MONTI: Thank you. I appreciate it.
I am a resident of Verona Walk, and I'm speaking as a
private resident but, by way of background, I am also a
CDD supervisor. We have become quite familiar with the
Tamarindo problem, as they lie directly north of us.
I've just very recently been made aware that Tamarindo
is withdrawing their request to drain through our property
and is going to pursue the approach of going through a
transfer of water via Sabal Palm Road. This will
undoubtedly require some type of spreader arrangement and
culverts under the -- under the road to make that work
effectively and get past the damming function that Sabal
Palm represents.
That's going to dump, by their specifications, eight
cubic feet per second of water into that neighborhood. So
you are going to be faced with an immediate conflict of
whether you help the people you've already approved or
whether you allow a new group of people to be stirred into
the mix. This is a poorly thought out and dangerously
Page 215 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 207
damaging process.
Those of us who were here through Hurricane Irma
realize that the amount of rain that fell in a catastrophic type
of hurricane came within a foot of overflowing our ponds
and entering our homes. Adding this kind of water to a
neighborhood without the ability to foresee the kind of
damage it's going to do is foolish.
While I do appreciate the civics course by
Commissioner LoCastro as far as what all the steps are, we
all recognize that, in fact, this is the camel's nose coming
into the tent, and we need to be cognizant of the fact that
once this starts to work its way through the approval
process, allowing us to make comments is one thing. Your
responsibility to listen to those comments is something
entirely different.
And our expectation is that now that these
neighborhoods are in place, you will exercise your
responsibility to protect us in the future against bad
decisions that will damage the properties that are already
built.
Beyond that, I want to thank the folks from Audubon,
because I totally support their comments and think that we
need to recognize the opportunities of protecting the
wildlife, creating wildlife corridors --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need you
to wrap up.
MR. MONTI: I appreciate it, and I believe we've
covered it all. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your final registered
speaker for this item is Laurie Gelli Wittek.
Page 216 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 208
Laurie, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so at this time.
Laura is joining us on phone. You were unmuted for a
second. I think it's star six or star nine, one or the other,
when you're on phone to unmute. There, you're unmuted,
Laura. You have three minutes.
MS. GELLI WITTEK: So sorry. I won't take three
minutes, I promise.
I've been a Florida resident for almost five years. I
totally enjoy the proximity of my home in Verona Walk to
the preserve. When I drive down Collier Boulevard, it
actually sickens me to see the amount of new housing
developments that are cropping up, not to mention the
problem that happened, you know, Hacienda Lakes with
incredible amounts of apartments. It's just -- I just shake my
head every time I go by there.
And the poor people at Tamarindo with the problem
they're having with water, I can't only imagine what would
happen with this new development coming that would
perhaps create even more problems.
And I'm not a math expert; however, if you're talking
about affordable housing, out of 423, you're only going to
have 63 units for affordable housing? So don't push the
issue of affordable housing because that's not a lot of
affordable housing homes.
And thank you for all the folks who spoke before me,
because I echo their sentiment. Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: That was our final registered speaker
for this item, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Mr. Yovanovich, do you have any closing? Because I
Page 217 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 209
do have a couple questions for our staff.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. Do you want to ask your
staff questions first?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And then I'll --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Because it may an been
impact on your wrapping up.
Mr. Bosi, could you kind of describe what occurred at
the Planning Commission, what the vote was and --
MR. BOSI: The vote was 4-1. And I was corrected,
there were no public speakers at the Planning Commission.
It was 4-1, and Commissioner Shea, I believe, was the one
opposition, and he felt that the public benefits that were
described by staff and by the applicant did not provide
sufficient to provide justification for the change for the
sending land designation that currently the property
receives.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What's the market for
development units? This is -- this is a sending area right
now, and this change will turn this into a receiving area.
So --
MR. BOSI: This -- they're proposing to lift this out of
the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District. They are creating their
own subdistrict, which would allow 2.5 units an acre.
Currently, it's allowed one unit per 40 acres.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And that's because
it's in a -- in the Rural Fringe.
MR. BOSI: It's in the Rural Fringe sending, and this is
a sending NRPA designation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, again, I'm just trying
to understand, the units that they can send, is there a market
Page 218 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 210
for those?
MR. BOSI: Oh, is there a market for if they were to
create TDRs for this property? If they weren't seeking a
Growth Management Plan, they weren't seeking
development, and they just wanted to create TDRs, they
could get four TDRs per each 5-acre tract. Actually, they
could get an additional TDR because they're in the North
Belle Meade hydrological overlay. So I believe they could
get five TDRs per 5-acre tract. That gets them close to, like,
450, 460 TDRs could probably be generated.
The market for TDRs -- there is a market. It's not as
robust as we would like it, and one of the reasons why that is
is we've never had a rural village that was -- that sought
development. We had one that went through a Growth
Management Plan amendment, but the PUD never came.
And the villages are what would be -- the main
consumers would be the greatest source of demand for
TDRs, and because of that, the market for TDRs has
diminished somewhat. And we may have created a
competition for that because when we adopted the rule
changes for the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District, then we
allowed for affordable housing at 12.2 units per acre in the
receiving area.
We've provided a mechanism that says that if you
provide for affordable housing, you do not -- you are not
required to utilize TDRs. So that undercut the TDR demand
a little bit in the name of providing for more affordable
housing. But on the contrast to that, just as a sidenote, that it
has been -- it has produced a number of new affordable
housings over the last couple of years.
So the market for TDRs is not as strong as we would
Page 219 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 211
have liked, but we do know that there is a market out there
for them.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So when this is sent up,
does that result in the change? We approve this today, it
gets sent up. That change to make it a receiving area instead
of -- or taking it out of the Rural Fringe, does that become
final?
MR. BOSI: No, it doesn't become final. It's a
proposition.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And the reason
I'm asking this, I'm not convinced, necessarily, that this is a
zoning that should be approved, and I don't want to -- I
guess my concern is, by approving this, what does that do to
our options down the road? If you're saying it doesn't do
anything to our options, that's one thing.
MR. BOSI: And the County Attorney could correct me
if I'm wrong, but I do not -- you are not handcuffed by a
recommendation to transmit to the state. This is just
transmitted to the state to hear what the state reviewing
agencies may think of the -- of the proposal related to state
significant systems.
There is no obligation at adoption that you have to
follow through with the approval of this GMP or the
approval of the PUD that's being proposed. That would be
at adoption. So this is simply to transmit it to the state to get
comments from the state agencies.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So I think it was
important to have that clarification because I don't have an
issue with necessarily sending this up to the state, but I
do -- I may have an issue with voting to rezone this. I may
have an issue with voting to take it out of the Rural Fringe.
Page 220 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 212
And what you're saying is today's vote doesn't do that?
MR. BOSI: Correct. It does not. It doesn't. It simply
sends it to the state for further evaluation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So then I guess
my message to the developer would be this is a long process,
but you've got some neighborhoods that have some real
problems. You've got a roadway there that appears to have
some real problems, and you've got at least one
commissioner that has some concerns with moving forward
with this.
I would encourage you to try to solve some of those
problems if you can, because I don't want you -- you know,
regardless of what my vote is today, I don't want -- if I vote
to transmit this just for that information from the state, I
don't want you to take that as, well, when this comes back,
I'm a vote for the --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- the other aspects of this.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And if I can, let me address
some of the comments that the public made so they can
think about it in the meantime. First of all -- and I think
Mike's math may be a little off.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It is.
MR. YOVANOVICH: By quite a bit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: By quite a bit.
MR. YOVANOVICH: The reality is, you might get
three TDRs per five acres, because one of them is a
conveyance credit, and so far, nobody wants to take the
lands, and the second is you've got to clean it up. So you
may get three credits per five acres, which I did that math, is
101, not 400.
Page 221 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 213
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct, correct.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Which is quite a significant
difference. So the reality is, from a marketability, unless
someone comes forward with a village, there's really no
buyers for these 100 credits.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But again --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I know. But let me -- and let
me just -- I know I'm just putting -- now, Tamarindo, I
believe, is right here, if I'm close on my development. Am I
right? Yeah, I think I hit it on the number.
That project is nowhere near our project, and our
project is nowhere near that project. And our project drains
directly south. So we have absolutely no drainage impact on
Verona Walk or Tamarindo as is. And I understand that
everybody who spoke is probably not an engineer. But right
now water's just flowing.
When we ultimately come forward with a PUD and we
do a water management system, we actually control the flow
of the water, and we discharge it at a much lesser rate than
the free flow of water right now.
So the concerns -- I understand the concerns about
drainage. What I'm saying is, from an engineering
standpoint, we do not negatively impact their neighborhoods
from our drainage. And you can -- and you don't have to
trust me. You don't have to trust -- but you can trust your
own staff who's analyzed this, and you can trust the Water
Management District, because we have to get those permits.
In response to Mr. Cornell, the reality is staff -- he said
he agreed with staff's original recommendation, which was
to approve the project if we reduced the density to where we
are today and if we increased the open space from -- to
Page 222 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 214
where we are today. So we have complied with what staff
requested in order to get their support for a recommendation
of approval.
There are -- when we're done -- and you'll see this
when the PUD comes back -- is we will upgrade Sabal Palm
Road to a county road. It will be a legitimate county road,
not what it is today, by our project, which means we have to
deal with the drainage of Sabal Palm Road, and we will
install culverts, and we'll make those -- that will all come
forward at the PUD stage as part of this process.
So -- and traffic, your traffic staff, Transportation staff,
has analyzed the traffic on Sabal Palm Road and has
determined that Sabal Palm Road, once we improve our
portion of Sabal Palm Road, can handle the traffic capacity.
So from the comments from the neighbors about
drainage, we understand their comments. We do not
negatively impact their drainage. From a transportation
standpoint of Sabal Palm Road, we don't have a -- we do add
trips. So I don't want anybody to say, "Rich, don't tell me
we're not a negative impact." Yes, we add trips, but the road
has a capacity to handle our units.
This is right by the urban area. Your staff has already
said this would never have been designated an NRPA
sending designation had they -- had they had representation
at the time.
This is a good project. We're asking you for
transmittal. We understand that we may not get adoption.
We'll address every one of the concerns in our -- in our
presentation.
We're going to have -- we've agreed to provide
additional notice for what -- what is required, so that would
Page 223 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 215
probably mean everybody in Verona Walk is going to get a
notice. I know they knew about it because they attended our
first NIM, but we'll provide the required notice.
I even offered the lady -- during the break there was a
complaint about where we actually post our signs. We have
to put signs on our property to notice it. She says, but
nobody knows unless you drive down that way. Well, I
can't put a sign on someone else's property. If someone will
allow us to post a sign on their property at the corner of
Sabal Palm and Collier Boulevard, we'll post a -- we'll post a
sign there, too, if they want additional notice. She said she'll
try to go get me a sign easement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We can't talk from
the audience. If you want to add something, you have to
come to the podium.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We want people to know
because I think if they -- if they listen to the experts, they'll
understand that the concerns that they have are being
addressed, and it will be better for them if this project goes
forward from a drainage standpoint overall.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Again, you know, my
message is simply --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Understood.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- sharpen your pencil,
make sure that you're meeting with the neighborhood, and
let's see if we can resolve some of the issues. I understand
the drainage issue. I can't disagree with that, but there may
be other things in terms of the road that you may need to
take a look at.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Understood.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We've closed
Page 224 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 216
the public hearing. Any other discussion?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm lit up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro,
you have a -- you're lit up.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So this is my district,
and I'm just going on record that you have two
commissioners that have serious concerns. But I'm not
trying to give anybody a civic lesson, as the gentleman was
saying, but this isn't the meeting to do it.
So when -- you know, with a few of the citizens in the
room here that -- all of your concerns had meat on the bone.
Sir, you said that the word on the street -- you know, I want
you to leave here with fact and not rumor. The county not
paying for half of a light is fake news. Never heard that,
okay, ever. And also, all the concerns you have about traffic
analysis and drainage and all that, all that has yet to come.
The 100 citizens from the local community that all
want to line up here at the podium, that meeting has yet to
happen. And so your concerns are valid. Two
commissioners here have voiced that. I don't know if I want
420 of anything to be on that road, but this isn't the meeting
for that.
So allowing this to go to the state and come back with
more information gives us a starting point. There
probably -- like they said, there would be another NIM, a
neighborhood information meeting, which all the concerned
citizens should flood and go to that, and that's the time to be
heard. It would go back to the Planning Commission; that
would be open for public comment.
So, you know, I want to make sure that everybody
understands that some people are talking like we're at Step
Page 225 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 217
10 right now. We're, like, at Step .5. And so we're not
voting on any of those things that you have concerns on.
And the things you have concerns on would have to be
analyzed, and if the answers come back here, you already
heard, two commissioners here -- and I wouldn't doubt all
five of us -- would do a deep dive and to make sure we're
not just shoehorning 400 units into a place that -- that it
doesn't fit.
I will echo, though -- and this doesn't mean we rubber
stamp every, you know, development. I know a lot of times
when citizens drive by something and they hate it, they say,
"How could we have approved that?" And the reality is a lot
of times what you see being built that you hate is Draft 20.
You would have really hated Draft 1 that we all fought to
downsize and change and all of that.
But the part about drainage, it's premature to
necessarily talk about it, but when you leave here, to correct,
you know, rumor from fact, something that used to be an
orange grove that's just sitting there doesn't just -- water
flows arbitrarily. I'm not saying we rubber stamp a 500-unit
apartment complex so that drainage is better, but before that
apartment complex is built, a much more robust drainage
system that doesn't exist at all in an area is a requirement.
So when you just have a big, huge piece of land and,
you know, Hurricane Irma comes through here, that water
just goes wherever it wants. When you build something,
even if you hate it, underneath it is a system that controls the
water flow.
And so -- and even as Commissioner Saunders was
saying, we sort of get that. There's lots of other things that
can approve or disapprove something, but when folks say,
Page 226 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 218
"We have this big drainage problem, just leave the land
alone," okay, well, that drainage problem won't get any
better just letting the land sit. I'm saying it gets better by
approving a 400-and-something-unit complex, but along
with that complex is a very detailed and complex irrigation
and sewage, I should say, type system that does help the
water flow. But we're not there yet.
So, sir, I'll just tell you I appreciated everything you
say. Leave here and correct the word on the street,
especially about that traffic light, because I'm really big on
lights. And when somebody says the county did this, the
county did that, it's really the Florida DOT that approves a
light, and then when it comes to the funding, they either
fund it, or in most cases the gated community -- Tamarindo,
I believe, had some responsibility possibly to pay for that
light, and they may or may not have, but the county not
paying for half of it, that's total fake news.
And so -- and I'm available to any citizens. This is my
district. I'm very concerned about that road, the fires, and all
of that.
But I got a big petition today that had thousands of
signatures on it. That tells us there's great concern out there,
but this isn't the meeting to, you know, throw the petition on
top of -- on top of the desk. That's coming, and I hope we
hear from citizens robustly and not just "We don't want this
in our backyard."
I mean, you know, that's a valid comment, but we need
a little bit more. Same from, you know, Mr. Cornell who
talks from an environmental perspective. Every time we
want to build something on a piece of green space, you
know, it just can't be, "Well, it's green space and we want to
Page 227 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 219
keep it green." Everything can't be a dog park.
And so if there are endangered species on there or
exotic vegetation that we need to preserve or it's a water
flow area that needs to stay natural, those are things that
have a lot of meat on the bone to halt or downsize some sort
of project or to maybe make it viable for Conservation
Collier. But just, "Hey, it was once an orange grove, and
now we don't want it to be an apartment complex, have
Conservation Collier buy it or let's just leave it as it is,"
that's going to be a tough sale -- sell when there's not the
other evidence to support it. But that is coming, and today
isn't the day.
So I support this moving forward to the state. It's going
to make us more educated on the property. We've approved
nothing today for construction. Nothing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
Thank you. That was well said. There's three of us that
have similar concerns with regard to this increase in density.
I would like to know that -- and, again, I think we're a
little past .05 on steps, but --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Are you going to
give me a civic lesson?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A little bit. Just a
little bit.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: 1.5?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Count your steps.
In the event that a light could be put in at Sabal
Palm -- because there's going to be more than 100 cars. I
mean, 400 rooftops -- 423 rooftops, as proposed, will equate
to twice that many cars. So the installation of a traffic light,
Page 228 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 220
I would like, as we move from, that the developer actually
contributes a pro rata share with regard to that expense.
I agree with my colleagues here with regard to the
flooding. We still have a lot of data to collect. If you will
recall -- and I think this even predates you, Commissioner
LoCastro -- there was originally -- if you go north of here
three or four or five miles, Benfield Road comes due south,
and there was a -- back when the previous county manager
and deputy were in place, there was -- there was a flyover
over I-75 from White Lake on the north side of 75 to
Benfield and then a parallel road coming down that pretty
much runs right along the west side of this piece of property
all the way back down to 41 as a parallel road to lift some of
the constraints on 951.
So there's -- there's a lot of things from a -- from a
water management standpoint that need to be addressed here
managing the flows, the flooding that's currently existent in
this area. Certainly there's no argument Sabal Palm is the
dam that's causing that flow, and I'm really going to be
looking at those data numbers with regard to the calculations
and the modeling for the composite [sic] water that's coming
from the north.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I've just got two things. One's just a public
announcement to help out. Anyone who lives on any of
these rural roads anywhere in the county that may have, like,
a church or any type of organization that has large
gatherings at certain times of the day and they come in and
they let them out, and you have, you know, a really
restricted area you've got to come out in, if you see that on a
Page 229 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 221
regular basis and it does cause an issue in your community
for you even to exit your community or your street, you
should probably reach out to the Sheriff, let them come out
and observe it. Because a lot of times in the past I know
we've had to have them hire a special detail for traffic
because if it is you get 200 cars staging at the intersection to
get out on Collier Boulevard, and it's blocking you people in
your homes and you can't get out, that's possibly an answer
for some of these issues and not so much just failure of the
road situation. It's just the fact that you have 200 cars
leaving a church after a service.
And it may come to that point where, you know, the
Sheriff may say this is a hinderance to the traffic. You may
have to hire a deputy to sit out here during that time to direct
traffic, stop traffic, something to get the traffic flowing.
That being said...
Second, Mr. French, I can't remember, but is this
Tamarindo development we're talking about, is this the one
that -- was it the D.R. Horton one that I kept getting
comments about? And the flooding was possibly a man
issue or development -- or a pipe-size issue.
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. So -- for the record, my
name's Jamie French. I'm your department head for Growth
Management/Community Development.
The Tamarindo development is currently under a
consent order from the South Florida Water Management
District. This would have been considered a special flood
hazard area that would have been subject to ponding. It's an
AH designation. And what they've done is they elevated
this to where a letter of map revision was done.
Most of these homes are set at a finished floor elevation
Page 230 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 222
probably around 10 feet, so, in all essence, they're an X
zone. This creates more than just a problem for this
community. This developer needs to correct the
construction in here. Water's not flowing -- it's not flowing
as it was designed, and that's why the Water Management
District has taken the position they have.
We've actually -- because they're in -- they're in
violation of their ERP conditions, we've prevented any
further homes from being issued a certificate of occupancy.
So there's a handful of homes in there that look like they're
done in all aspects, all the inspections were done, but they
can't take occupancy. We saw this during
Hurricane -- around Hurricane Ian to where this community
which is set at right around 10 feet or nine and a half feet
NAVD.
We saw water actually lapping up against garage doors.
This creates a condition for the entire basin if you look at the
FEMA flood map. So it not just creates a problem for them;
it creates a problem for every house, every property that
exists within that basin map.
And so what would typically happen is that FEMA
would come back through, and they may reset the elevations
for everyone who thinks they're in an X zone. Because of
this failed development, it could very well lead to every
home within that basin having to get flood insurance. Now,
that's worst-case scenario.
So we are working on this with the developer. This is
going to require some reengineering. I don't know -- I think
at one time, perhaps Mr. Yovanovich may have been
representing them. I'm not sure. But at the -- at the end of
the day, we are working with the development. This is an
Page 231 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 223
outlier. It's very rare, but certainly this community called us
out. We responded.
It is a private development. These are not county
right-of-ways. And to Mr. Yovanovich's point, the way this
water flows in there, this probably won't have much to do
adding anything to Tamarindo. That's a development
problem.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's the reason I asked
you to kind of -- you know, if you can clarify that. Because
I remember us talking about it and different people reaching
out to me. But it was more based on just the design -- the
way they designed that property.
MR. FRENCH: In construction.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: With construction --
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- that's creating their
flooding problem. It wasn't that there was some sort of
outside influence, or even this would be even outside. This
wouldn't contribute to their problem. Their problem's
internal.
MR. FRENCH: They've got a design-and-construction
problem, staff believes that. I've only seen it maybe once or
twice where you received a consent order from the Water
Management District during construction or after your ERP
was issued, so there's a problem.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I think we've
beaten this one pretty much to death.
So where are we? Is there a motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I move to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll second.
Page 232 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 224
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a
second.
Mr. Yovanovich.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just want to make sure we add
Commissioner McDaniel's request to expand the area --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- of the notice.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Notice.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, we're getting ready
to clarify the motion.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just want to -- I didn't want
that to get lost.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So the motion is to
transmit this for information from the state and to add
Commissioner McDaniel's request that the area for
notification be expanded. To what area? Just within a mile?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Within a mile.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Within a mile. And the
petitioner has agreed to that.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passed unanimously.
But we've all said, you've got a tough road to hoe
here -- or row to hoe.
All right. Ms. Patterson.
Page 233 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 225
Item #9D
ADOPT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ANIMAL CONTROL
ORDINANCE BY AMENDING THE DEFINITION OF HOBBY
BREEDER AND PERMIT REQUIREMENTS AND PROCESS -
MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE JULY 8TH BCC MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL/HALL
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 9D. This is a recommendation to adopt an ordinance
amending the Animal Control Ordinance by amending the
definition of hobby breeder and permit requirements in
process. This item is brought to the agenda by
Commissioner Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And I'm going to
start off by saying I don't know anything about hobby
breeders, and I don't want to learn a whole lot about it. I do
want to make sure that we have an ordinance that is
enforceable. And so I've -- we're not going to vote on this
today. I'm going to ask for it to be continued because I want
to make sure that we get comments and provisions added to
this. I know Mr. Kepp has been sitting here patiently for
quite a while, and so I know he's got a few words to say.
But we're going to -- I want to make sure that we get
this in the right way. So I'm going to ask our staff to work
with the members of the public on this ordinance, and also,
just so the Commission knows, I've had conversations with
SNIP and with Friends of Cats and some of the other
organizations and with the Manager, and it seems to
me -- we've increased the budget for DAS. I think we did
Page 234 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 226
that on the consent agenda this morning. And it seems to
me that we can spend money much, much more wisely and
more effectively by partnering with the private sector by
providing grants and money for the private sector to do
some of the things that we just can't do very well. We're not
very good at picking up stray animals, we're not very good
at having mobile veterinarian units and things like that, but
we have people in the private sector.
So during our budget cycle, I've asked Tom Kepp and
some of the other folks to come back with some proposals,
tell us what they can do for us and how we can help them
with some of the funding we have to be more effective.
But, Mr. Kepp, I don't know if you have any comments
on this ordinance this afternoon. Obviously you've been
here. So I sure would like to hear whatever you have to say.
MR. KEPP: Thank you. I had to sign up for three
minutes. If you want to give me a couple extra for sitting
here all day, that would be fine.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can -- you can have a
few extra.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As long as you want.
MR. KEPP: Tom Kepp, founder of SNIP Collier.
Let me start off. I've sat here today and I've listened to
two different organizations come up where we discussed
public money, taxpayer money and our concern about it.
And that was the biggest thing I heard in this is how do we
make sure that our money's being spent well.
Well, we need to look -- and I brought this up a couple
weeks ago when I was here about how much we've spent
over the last 20 years that I've been coming up here.
And I think it's time that we looked internally at our
Page 235 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 227
own organizations and get this one right, because this is a
big deal.
This hobby breeder thing is -- it makes it sound like
these are people that are, like, breeding these animals on
purpose. Just this last 10 days, I think I've taken close to 25
puppies and their moms that have been under houses or just
in the field or under somebody's garage. And every one of
these has been -- I've treated as an owner surrender because
I got them to sign off.
One of them I had to go to the landlord and explain to
him that he had broken sewage lines underneath the place
and the health department probably wouldn't be looking
good at this, and he surrendered the animals to me.
They've all gone to Cape Coral, Gulf Coast. So SNIP
Collier, myself, whatever, have been taking a lot of burden
off of our DAS. But I've also taken about 50-some animals
or more to them. And they are so full, they look at me and
say, "Tom, we don't have any more kennels open."
To make more -- to give the DAS more money, which I
absolutely appreciate and want them to have a modern big
facility, you can put another 200 beds or kennels, whatever
you want to call them, and I guarantee you in a couple years
they're going to be full, and you're going to have the same
problem.
I'll be one of the first organizations that will argue with
about not -- I want you to -- I want to be compensated for
what we do to a point, because I think we do it well. We
broke ground. We are actually building -- we should have
our triage system up -- our building up and running in
October.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Where is that
Page 236 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 228
building? And where is that building?
MR. KEPP: It's in Immokalee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KEPP: The whole campus is in Immokalee. And
we will -- and we are going to be building this.
Anyway, my point is I would really appreciate it, but
the problem is this: I can do all this, but I can't do
enforcement. And that's what's going to stop -- that's going
to get it to a point that we can -- our help and DAS, Humane
Society, whoever's participating, can bring this -- this thing
to a manageable issue.
The problem is with enforcement. I just talked to
Jamie French today and had a great conversation out in the
hallway with him. And as he says, our phones ring off the
hook. We spend all of our time out riding from case to case
to case.
Well, doesn't that tell you that there is a big issue out
there? And the fact that our DAS is so full, it tells you the
problem lies in out the field, and that's what we need. And
if they need more resources, if that's why they say they can't
do it, I say give it to them but hold them accountable and
give them the ordinances, and, like, when fines are given,
attach it to the property. Some of these landlords may not
like that, but that's what's going to change things.
So I hope that -- I want to see -- this hobby breeder
ordinance will put a lot of meat into -- and give them a lot of
the ability to enforce our rules and put citations out, and
hopefully they can -- we can change the citation process so
we can actually collect money, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How much time do you
need -- does the general public need to give us feedback on
Page 237 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 229
this ordinance so we can redraft it? How much -- can we
continue this --
MR. KEPP: I could do it next week. And I think that
most of the public would agree with what I say because I --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we --
MR. KEPP: I was on the advisory board when we
wrote it, and so it's already really been approved by the
public.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we bring it
back the first meeting in July --
MR. KEPP: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and have you work with
the public and get me the comments. Because like I said, I
don't know anything about hobby breeders, and I don't really
want to learn.
MR. KEPP: Okay. I appreciate that, because I
understand it, and I will do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then on the issue of
what can we do -- I understand the enforcement issue.
That's something that, perhaps, the manager can delve into
and give us some guidance. But in terms of other partnering
with your group and other groups, we need them to come
back with some proposals on what they can do.
MR. KEPP: Well, I did send you a few items that
would help us in Immokalee. I think we need money for
our -- on the cat -- cat and dog issues are different. On the
feral cat, we have been now doing -- we're working with the
Immokalee farmworkers organization while we're under
construction. They've given us some building to use for the
feral cats, and that's in Immokalee.
But I'm meeting actually on Friday with a couple
Page 238 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 230
groups here on how our already existing spay/neuter clinic
can maybe start helping and maybe build that whole
program. It takes money, but again, we work as hard as we
can to raise money out of the community to do it. But any
help we can get on that.
But like the county, we need vets and vet techs, and
that's something that maybe the county, in general, can help
with the whole community as far as maybe working with
some of the colleges or -- I don't know the answer to that,
but maybe we can work on it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is there anybody on the
Board that would want to take the lead on something like
that? And my assumption is probably not; that we want to
rely on our staff. But, you know, I've tried to, but I just
don't have the knowledge to really -- and time to really jump
into all the details.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I've already
started talking with our Domestic Animal Services director
about some options for some of these areas where we could
be augmented by outside agencies, so we can certainly
gather all of those ideas together. We're going to be having
a conversation about expanded services at DAS as part of
the budget. So we can bring back those ideas, and we'll
continue to work with Mr. Kepp and For Love of Cats.
They have great ideas about where they can help in the
community.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And on the enforcement
issue, perhaps there's some guidance you can provide.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We've also been
working on that as part of the budget. So we'll be coming
back with some recommendations on how we -- how we
Page 239 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 231
build that enforcement up a bit.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, anybody else
registered to speak?
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Mr. Kepp, anything else?
MR. KEPP: No. But we did have our 5K at the
Paradise Coast park the other day, and it was a good
experience. We had about 500 people out there. That was
our first one out there. I'm on the Gulf Coast -- Coast board,
runner's board, and so it was a -- we had a really good race
out there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Hey, Tom. Just in a quick
nutshell.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Am I lit up or no?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on just a second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What is a hobby breeder,
and what do you want to make it to?
MR. KEPP: Well, like I said, they use this word
"hobby breeder." It wasn't particularly mine. That was
brought up someplace else.
I look at it as people -- it all came up when those pet
stores were all getting -- we wanted to permit the pet stores.
And the bottom line is, what it's defined by is anybody that
has one -- any puppies or kittens, basically. And if you have
two or more litters a year, then I think it translates into a
commercial breeder.
The problem is there's -- no one out there can define a
commercial breeder because if you don't -- just -- there's no
way to prove that people are selling them. They re-home
Page 240 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 232
them. They this, you know, whatever.
So the bottom line is it's -- it should be the same thing
across the board. Anybody that has -- has a litter, even
accidently, should be required to keep them at least, I say,
eight weeks, but six weeks. In other words, the puppies
need to be with their mother and fed food.
They should be required to have a health certificate
before they give them away or sell them, because believe
me, the people that I just explained about that just have them
under their carport or their garage or anything, they're not
going to do that. And if they're required to spend $200 per
puppy and they get caught and have to pay the fines, and
literally pay them, they're not going to get another dog.
They have to have them chipped. They have to
have -- well, the health certificates, and on the
proposed -- the one that we did a few years ago, it also that
says if you -- no matter whether you give them away, sell
them, or whatever, you have to keep a record of however
you transferred ownership to them.
Now, the county probably has a problem with that one
because they've got to collect the records, and I get that. But
still, the people I know that are abusing this system are not
going to do these things. And if you really come down on
them, you'll cut out 25 to 50 percent of all the -- I know
dogs. You won't have them here to have to deal with
running lose or biting people or dying in the streets or
whatever. So with that -- with that being said, anybody that
has puppies or kittens is a breeder.
Now, the feral cat problem is a different story because
that's -- that's why we need to put so much money into spray
and neuter of -- you know, trap and release programs. And
Page 241 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 233
if we do those two things, I'm telling you five years from
now, you won't ever have to listen to me again. Of course,
at my age you might not have to listen to me anyway.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
MR. KEPP: Guys, thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't go away. I'm
going to bring --
MR. KEPP: This is the first time I've ever been invited
back --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going to ask
Jamie to come to the podium just to -- forgive me. I put a
piece of candy in -- just to give us a brief reiteration of the
issues we're having with enforcement. I mean, we're
having -- we've combined Code Enforcement with DAS, and
where are we at with those efforts as far as the actual
enforcement goes?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. Thank you, Commissioners.
Again, Jamie French for the record.
So, Commissioner, this group transferred over a little
less than a year ago, and so just right after the first of the
year we did that combination. We've actually had more
arrests, working with the Sheriff's Office, than we've had in
the past.
We still maintain 100 percent conviction; however,
compliance is not a light switch, and these investigations do
take time. And your average -- your average
inspector -- even if we can hire a fully certified
state -- they'd be a state certified animal control officer,
which is what they're required to be. We maintain a staffing
level. You've got 13, 14 FTEs. When this group transferred
over, we had about seven. And that is now down to
Page 242 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 234
probably about five or six because -- they do go through,
as -- and we've seen it with even Tom and the organizations
he works with, that compassion stress that goes into the job.
Your animal control officers spend about -- somewhere
between 100 and 120 miles a day of windshield time
covering this 2,000 miles of this county. And so we have
brought in Code Enforcement to try to go towards the
problem of the property.
So if we go in, we see illegal kennels that have been
constructed, we will write them on a code violation. But
this does take time. And as Tom said, as we -- as we grow
in our population, we see new behaviors occur. Some of it
may be cultural as far as the way they treat their animal. We
don't agree with it. But through education, through
enforcement, and perhaps bringing in some additional
resources, whether it be outside agencies that work with us,
like Tom's group, like For the Love of Cats, but also it is
going to require a little bit more staffing on the enforcement
side.
They're -- right now, sir, they're working 10-hour shifts.
At any given time, you've got maybe three to four animal
control officers on the road each day, seven days a week
from 7:30 in the morning till 10 p.m. at night.
And so when we get a call, their roster may be 12 or 15
calls in one day, and they could range from Marco Island to
Immokalee to the City of Naples to North Naples all divided
up amongst those three people.
So I would tell you the biggest issue we have is not
having enough time to do those investigations and the
follow-up. That's one of the things we're looking at. We're
sending Code in now. For example, we had a call in on an
Page 243 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 235
animal retailer. And we've sent in even park rangers. We've
sent in -- I sent James Hanrahan in just to go -- only because
he was in the area. I had him stop by and take photos,
because we got some complaints about the way the staff was
acting to the dogs or the way perhaps the animals were
being kept. It was all unfounded, but so often it's that one
time when we do find it that we get a conviction that we
have that ah-ha moment that we did a good job.
Many times we don't find a violation. We go out there;
we inspect the facility. Yes, they have -- perhaps it's a
running at-large. We write them a ticket. But it is -- it is a
myriad of different behaviors that we've seen all throughout
the county.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We ran into that
issue quite some time ago when this ordinance first came
forward, and, you know, there was a -- there was a retailer
that was wanting to come to town, and there were a lot of
misnomers with regard to the retail sale of animals and the
condition of those animals and that sort of thing, and
it -- some of it -- some of them probably were, in fact, true
of other vendors.
But I -- my primary question for you is, are there
enhancements to the actual enforcement code that we can do
as a board to help your people do their job?
I mean, Mr. Kepp brought up a very valid point of
penalization of the property where the infraction, in fact,
occurs, whether it be -- and I don't know from a legality
standpoint, are we allowed to impose a lien against a tenant
on a rental piece of property?
MR. FRENCH: You can put a personal lien against the
person. It goes against their credit. Now, I would have to
Page 244 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 236
defer to the County Attorney's Office as to if you could go
as far as wage garnishment. That's one of the things we are
looking at. So if somebody decides I've got $500 worth of
fines to the county, I don't own anything, I don't care about
my credit, I'm not paying you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. FRENCH: But if we could get into wage
garnishment, that is a tool we've not used. Certainly, this
board has taken a different position on the collection of fines
against properties, and we appreciate you for doing that.
As I've said to Thomas, as I've said to your Domestic
Animal Services Advisory Board, if we can't change your
behavior by hitting you in the wallet, I don't know what else
we can do. And I will tell you the Sheriff's Office arresting
people and prosecuting them with the State Attorney's
Office, that we're hopeful that that has certainly changed
some behaviors. But these advancements have come very
slowly.
MR. KEPP: Can I -- first of all, I don't have any
compassion fatigue. I like what I do. And the second is,
this -- Jamie, again, I'm trying to help. I'm trying to help. I
want better stakes. This idea of 100 percent, what was the
term you used? A hundred percent --
MR. FRENCH: Conviction.
MR. KEPP: -- convictions, I don't understand that, and
somebody's going to have to -- because I'm having a very,
very difficult time getting --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Let's --
MR. KEPP: -- public records now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me interrupt, because
it's getting late, and getting back and forth on this is not
Page 245 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 237
going to be particularly productive.
We've given staff some direction. We need your help,
and we need -- Jamie, we need your help. First meeting in
July, we need to have solutions. And all the rhetoric doesn't
matter. So let's move on, if you don't --
MR. KEPP: Absolutely, fine.
Thank you so much. I do appreciate you hearing me
out, and I'll have everything -- and hopefully I can get some
meetings with Amy, and thank all of you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So I'll make a motion to
continue the hobby breeder's ordinance until the first
meeting in July, direct staff to work with the various
providers on how they -- we can partner with them to deal
with some of those stray animals and everything that
we're -- all those issues. And I think that -- and also to come
back if you have any recommendations on enhancing
enforcement.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that July 7th?
What date?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
MS. PATTERSON: July -- sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It can't be the 7th. It
could be the July 8th.
MS. PATTERSON: July 8th. July 8th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: July 8th, okay. Continue
to July 8th.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
Page 246 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 238
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
I think it was seconded, but if not --
COMMISSIONER HALL: It was.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, we both seconded
at the same time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Good. Good,
good.
Item #11B
REVIEW STAFF FINDINGS OF THE BOARD-DIRECTED ON-
SITE EVALUATION OF PARKING CAPACITY FOR VARIOUS
MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS WITHIN COLLIER COUNTY,
PROVIDE DIRECTION TO STAFF REGARDING POLICY ON
PARKING DEVIATIONS AND ADMINISTRATIVE PARKING
REDUCTIONS FOR MULTIFAMILY PROJECTS, AND PROVIDE
DIRECTION ON ADJUSTING THE ADOPTED PARKING
STANDARDS THROUGH AN AMENDMENT TO THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE. (MICHAEL BOSI, DIVISION
DIRECTOR - PLANNING & ZONING) - DIRECTING STAFF TO
DROP THE ISSUE – CONSENSUS
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 11B. This is a recommendation to review staff
findings of the board-directed on-site evaluation of parking
capacity for various multifamily developments within
Page 247 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 239
Collier County, provide direction to staff regarding policy
on parking deviations and administrative parking reductions
for multifamily projects, and provide direction on adjusting
the adopted parking standards through an amendment to the
Land Development Code.
Mr. Michael Bosi, your division director of Planning
and Zoning, is here to present.
MR. BOSI: Good afternoon, again. Mike Bosi,
Planning and Zoning director.
This is a parking study that started off on October 22nd
in 2024. Board asked staff to compare our standards for
multifamily parking against other standards in Southwest
Florida. We provided that. We came back. Compared 11
other Florida jurisdictions. Identified car -- it was right
about in the middle, middle to low in terms of the overall
demand in parking requirement.
And the Board said, "Well, let's see if there's a larger
issue here," and directed staff to go out, look at a number of
these -- of these multifamily apartment complexes and see,
do we, in fact, have a parking problem from a multifamily
standpoint. And that's what we did.
This is just the current standards. You know, for an
efficiency, it's a half of a space. For a one-bedroom, it's .75.
For two bedrooms or more, it's one space per unit. And then
you've got additional parking for your administrative offices
as well as your recreational facilities. But that's just giving
you a baseline of where we're at today.
The study that we've conducted was 12 communities
representing a broad cross-section of multifamily. So that's
four townhome communities, four multifamily complexes
that had administrative parking reductions, and seven
Page 248 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 240
communities without APR.
Prior to each on-site visit, staff reviewed whether there
was any approved parking reductions, prior parking-related
code enforcement complaints, and then also the SDP and the
construction plats for these facilities.
It was basically a windshield survey conducted
between February 11th and March 4th. I think you would
say that would probably be the height of season. And we
did it between 6:30 and 8 o'clock at night. So this was
when -- after your 9 to 5 work shift was done, and it was
done Tuesday through Thursday. So we really tried to
identify the highest point for when we were going to go out
and do these facilities.
And every time that we went out, the staff asked the
same questions: Is there enough parking for residents,
visitors, and service vehicles? What percentage of the
parking is occupied or vacant? Are there -- are there any
issues with illegally parked cars or other parking-related
nuisances? Does the site have designated space for guest
parking, for handicapped parking, and other needs? And are
parking issues an enforcement issue, or is there insufficient
public parking?
Here's all the communities we went to. Aster, Marco
Shores, the Crest, The Ranch at Orange Blossom, Meadow
Lake Apartments, Naples Walk, St. Croix at Pelican March,
Allura, Largo Apartments, Summit Place in Naples, Ole of
Lely Resorts, and Avalon Woods. And the only place that
our observations detected an insufficient number of spaces
was The Ranch at Orange Blossom, and it happened to be, I
believe -- Commissioner McDaniel was one of the ones who
started the conversation for this study, and it was
Page 249 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 241
specifically because of the parking deficiencies at The
Ranch at Orange Blossom.
What we observed, that there was about 10 to 12
unlawfully parked vehicles. Most of it had to be related to
on-street and off-street parking issues. And the unique fact
about that is that facility actually has more than the required
parking standards would demand of that facility.
The conclusion that staff has arrived upon is there's
some characteristics of that individual townhouse
development that has created a continuous parking issue,
and it's almost now -- it's a code enforcement case. I'm
not -- I don't -- they've provided for, like I said, 14 percent
above the required minimum parking standards, and this was
the only facility that we saw that still had illegal parking
conducted throughout.
And this was just the standards. This is the comparison
of the 12 places we compared Collier to. We came out
at -- our requirement would have been 528. The most
spaces that could have been required would have been
Broward County with 518 spaces with the -- for the same
type of development.
So the conclusions: Orange Blossom Ranch was the
only multifamily community of the 12 observed with a
significant parking issue. Based upon the amount of empty
driveways observed within The Ranch at Orange Blossom
and the under-provided public accessible, parking -- parking
staff determined that your focus should really be upon
townhome style of development. If -- any of the
multifamily structures, the suggested -- an alignment with,
you know, maybe a need for additional parking would be the
townhome style of development.
Page 250 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 242
We have observed no parking issues with the five
multifamily communities with approved APRs that were
providing for less parking than what the code required. We
discovered that there was no parking issues associated with
those that we observed. And we're looking for direction.
One of the things that came from the direction for staff
to go out and do this study was to put a hold on APRs,
which are administrative parking reductions. So that
has -- we haven't processed any APRs to date because of
that Board-directed, and we're looking for direction.
One of the issues that were contemplated was if we
found -- or should we increase the demand for our parking
studies, what we found would suggest that there's not
a -- there's not an overburden of deficient facilities from a
parking standpoint. It was only one in particular that had it.
One of the other things that I do want to mention to
you, and this dates back to the Senate Bill 250, would put
the prohibition upon adopting any additional, more
restrictive LDC standards because of the -- because of
Hurricane Ian. Well, that has been extended by Senate Bill
180. It's not October 1st of 2026. It's now October 1st of
2027 before we can make any additional more restrictive
language or regulations added to our LDC.
And with that, seeking some direction from the Board,
one on the issue of would you like us to go out and look at
additional parking standards? Maybe not for all multifamily
sites, but maybe for townhome development, we could look
and see if there is any suggested unique ways that other
jurisdictions are treating townhomes that maybe are
different than your other multifamily complexes. But also
on the issue of APRs. Would the Board still like us to -- to
Page 251 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 243
have a freeze on those APRs, or based upon the study, are
you okay with staff moving forward with APRs as they are
submitted?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and, you
know, you bring up a lot of points.
Number 1, thank you. I -- this brings a lot of finality to
the subject matter. I do have to say that the allowances
within the APRs are counterintuitive to me. We're a driving
society.
I guess my question to you is, do you -- do you -- do
you -- would you like for us to continue -- or discontinue the
APRs, or are you okay going forward with them?
MR. BOSI: Well, we have a -- we have an -- it's kind
of an unwritten policy. It's 15 to 18 percent is kind of the
edge limits what we do for an APR, and we really put
a -- more of a leaning towards -- and what we find is the
affordable housing communities really provide us with some
solid justification for the reductions of the 10 or 15 percent.
And what we've found is those facilities have not had
parking issues associated with them.
So staff would be comfortable moving forward with
evaluating APRs as they come in. If the Board felt that it
was becoming an issue, I'm sure you would let staff know
that maybe we needed to stop that.
But from a staff perspective, I think we should
probably look at the townhome development and the way
that they have their parking, and it's -- normally it's two cars,
you know, per driveway. But for some reason, the
townhouse facility out in Orange Blossom Ranch just has
unique characteristics towards where there -- you know, that
Page 252 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 244
two per -- two per townhouse isn't providing sufficient. And
they did have guest parking available, but even that wasn't
sufficient, and I'm not sure why that -- the characteristics of
that -- of those units have resulted in a parking anomaly that
we're not seeing at any other facilities.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, maybe -- my
recommendation is stand down. Let it go. There may
be -- there may be other issues that -- a lot has to do with
demographics, has to do with population. There are,
culturally, people who like to live multi-generationally.
There may be more people living in one particular
townhome than are supposed to be there or what was
contemplated for the size and bedrooms and so on and so
forth.
So I thank you for doing that, for doing the study, but I
don't see any need to go forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. No one is lit up
at this point. And I think you've got directions, if the Board
agrees with it.
I certainly have no objection to status quo, and I
assume that's what you're basically talking about.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anybody else have any
objections to just dropping this issue and moving on?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Go for it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move on.
MR. BOSI: Thank you. Thank you.
Item #11D
AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE TO PURCHASE A
Page 253 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 245
0.53-ACRE PROPERTY CURRENTLY ZONED C-4 AT A
PURCHASE PRICE OF $1.25 MILLION FOR THE FUTURE
EMS/FIRE STATION EXPANSION OF STATION 21 IN EAST
NAPLES. (JOHN DUNNUCK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR -
FACILITIES & REDEVELOPMENT) - MOTION TO APPROVE
BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL/KOWAL
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 11D. This is a recommendation to approve and
execute an agreement for sale and purchase, to purchase a
.53-acre property currently zoned C-4 at a purchase price of
1.25 million for the future EMS/fire station expansion of
Station 21 in East Naples.
Mr. John Dunnuck, your executive director of Facilities
and Redevelopment, is here to present.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me -- if I might, I
think you probably met with everybody on this issue.
MS. PATTERSON: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Does anybody have any
questions? It seemed pretty straightforward.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm glad to hear you
say that. This is an important one to me.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll make a motion to
approve it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Hey, it's my district.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: In that case, I'll make a
motion to deny their -- to not do this.
All right. Commissioner LoCastro makes a motion to
approve.
Page 254 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 246
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This is his district.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And Commissioner
McDaniel --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He seconded.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal has
seconded it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And I'll just
be quiet.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and
second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It passes unanimously.
MR. DUNNUCK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Item #11E
ACCEPT A PRESENTATION ON FACILITIES MANAGEMENT
TO INCLUDE PROPOSED STRATEGIES RELATING TO
DEFERRED MAINTENANCE, SPACE UTILIZATION, PUBLIC
SAFETY, SECURITY, AND MASTER PLANNING. (JOHN
DUNNUCK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR - FACILITIES &
REDEVELOPMENT) PRESENTED AND DISCUSSED
Page 255 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 247
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Well, John might not
need to run away because he's -- oh, he's getting his props.
That brings us to Item 11E. This is a recommendation
to accept a presentation on Facilities Management to include
proposed strategies relating to deferred maintenance, space
utilization, public safety, security, and master planning.
And again, Mr. John Dunnuck, your executive director
of Facilities and Redevelopment, is here to present, and he's
handing out some stuff right now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just want it to be
noted that Commissioner Hall nor I got any prizes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, these are --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Our stuff's all good.
MR. DUNNUCK: It's show and tell. We share.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: These items are now
public record, so we'll ask the Clerk if she could file these
after we're finished.
MS. KINZEL: It's all electronic.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I feel like we're on
an episode of Shark Tank, and he's coming forward and
showing us something.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He's showing us new
granite.
MR. DUNNUCK: I've got presents for you.
Before I kick off into this presentation, you know, it's
one of these things where we understand the competing
interests, right. You've got -- Utilities has got issues.
Transportation has issues. DAS has issues. We all have
challenges with funding future requests. And so when I
came into Facilities -- you know, I've been here for about six
months, and I promised Commissioner LoCastro I would do
Page 256 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 248
kind of an initial SWAT analysis and say, "Where are we?
Where do we need to go? What do we need to do?"
And -- excuse me. And so the first thing I started
asking staff was, you know, where do we have building
issues? And so, Commissioner LoCastro, that is a gift from
Tigertail Beach. That is the restroom facility. The other
two props are actually the caps -- the brackets that were
holding up Sun-N-Fun. And so you can kind of see, if you
take a peek at them, the condition that they were in.
Exactly.
And so, you know, I said, "Start gathering this kind of
stuff up," because I want to talk about -- and I know it's 4:20
on Tuesday, and you've been here all day -- you know,
deferred maintenance. And, you know, it's not sexy to talk
about it, but it's a -- you know, in my opinion, two of the
things I'm most proud about in previous places I've worked
at is that you develop a plan, and you work a plan, and you
create sustainability throughout that process. And so you
basically -- you stick with it, you figure out ways -- it's a
living document. And I'll talk to you about previous plans
in a second. But the fact of the matter is, you've got to
develop a plan.
And so I asked Brian, I said, you know, let's, you
know, go high tech, where I'll old school and show props.
I'm, like, let's go high tech and let's put -- all this
information that we have, let's put them into one of these AI
apps, and let's look at it and spit out a picture of, like,
exactly what it is we're doing in terms of the Facility
department right now, and this is what it came up with.
Basically, you know -- and say this in jest -- it's
plugging holes in the dike. We are woefully behind in kind
Page 257 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 249
of our planning effort for staying ahead of some of our
capital. And this isn't anybody's specific fault. This is an
issue of COVID coming over a period of time and rerouting
hurricanes and allowance for deviations and plans where
you don't have the opportunity to work through it.
The Board's been great, and I'll show it in a second,
about starting to beef up the funding side of it, but it's also
beefing up the planning side of it. And I'm going to talk
about that in a second.
You know, today's objective, it's really kind of a
four-step process. It's really three at the heart of things in
terms of how we see the plan fitting together. The first is a
strategy to actually define the problem which is, what is our
deferred maintenance cost? You know, when I was at
Broward College, I made sure every one of my governing
board members knew exactly what our deferred
maintenance cost was. They knew it was $95 million, $93
million. Every year we'd update them. Did the scorecard
get better or get worse? So they knew exactly what that
was.
And when I look at our plans right here, we do not have
a good handle on what our deferred maintenance is. We
have kind of high swag analysis of we think it's this, here's
the asset value, here's the average life of things. Where do
we go from here? And so I want to get a good handle on
that.
The second in that is space utilization. Where are we
today, and where do we need to go? What is the efficiency
of how we're operating today?
You know, one of the things Amy and I have done
quite a bit of is we've done some walk-arounds. We've been
Page 258 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 250
looking at facilities and saying, where is it heavily utilized?
Where's it underutilized?
So then when you start looking at the condition
assessment, you can start looking at, then, what is the
efficiency of what you have?
And so we kind of have a second step in that process,
and I'll get into a little bit more detail, to walk you through
that.
The third, then, is security; safety and security. Over
the past -- and I'll show you kind of the org chart in where
we've been is we have kind of rolled leadership roles up so
high that I have people who are head of Maintenance that
are also head of Security. They're also doing other special
projects in day to day that they're not doing a good handle
on all of these things, and we'll talk you through that.
And then the fourth is when you take all of these things
into consideration, you develop a master plan. And it's an
inclusive master plan. Some of your previous master
plans -- and I'll show you -- have been a little bit of
piecemeal. They've talked about the main campus here.
They've talked about going out east.
They haven't really been looking at a holistic approach.
They haven't looked at actually all the master plans that exist
that we're working with, between the jails, the fire, and so
forth. So when you're doing land acquisition, are we
looking at land acquisition in a strategic manner? And so
we kind of wanted to walk you through that as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Dunnuck, if you
could get to a point where there would be a natural break, I
know our court reporter -- she is looking a little bit --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Beautiful.
Page 259 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 251
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's always, but a little
tired right now. So can you get to a point where there would
be a good break, and let's take a 10-minute break for the
court reporter.
MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. Let me -- let me walk you
through about three more slides, and then I think we can get
to that kind of action-item discussion, because I'll keep this
thing moving.
In 2008, we did a master plan study that was kind of
government center based. It looked mainly at this campus
and the future of where we go with Heritage Bay, because
that was some land that we had acquired through -- through
the GMD process.
In 2017, we had a master plan that actually was pretty
good in the fact that it actually looked at the value and
condition assessments of our buildings. It kind of rated
them in terms of, you know, A, B, C, D, and F and kind of
said, you know, here's something to look out for for the
future on where we're headed, but it also stopped short of
kind of taking us to the next level in terms of where we
needed to go.
In 2019, a master plan discussion was had in a
workshop that really talked about moving things east, and it
was really kind of a shift from on campus to let's move
things to the east. And a lot of those things -- in each one of
these plans, there were things that were executed and moved
forward. I'm not saying there weren't. But the fact of the
matter is, they were stagnant, and they stopped. In 2019,
they stopped. In 2017, it stopped. It wasn't a living plan
that as you guys are evaluating items looking at it saying,
"Okay, is this in the master plan? Is this not in the master
Page 260 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 252
plan? Does this shift the master plan? What does it have a
cause and effect of?" And where I want to go with the
master plan is something that actually is a living document
that we work with towards the future.
The quick assessment that I looked at in the department
is there was no planning arm in our Facilities department.
There was actually nothing -- nobody dedicated to the
planning effort of where we are moving for the future. So
when you did a reorganization or you moved bodies around
or you had increases in FTE counts, that was all reactionary
to everything we were doing. We did not have a Facilities,
you know, dedicated area to say, "Where do we head to in
the future?"
There's no staff redundancy in key leadership positions.
When I stepped in, you know, Brian was -- Brian DeLony,
who's the director, he was holding three different hats. He
was actually acting as the project manager supervisor and as
a project manager actively in there.
James Williams, same thing on the Maintenance side.
He was holding onto the maintenance side, he was acting as
project manager for DAS, and he was also dealing with the
security side of things, not -- and the financial
administration of it.
So, you know, we're going to talk to how we get to
some of those -- got to some of those fixes.
System tools at the end of life no longer in existence.
We actually had no system of record for tracking everything.
We had one, but it was kind of -- it's at the -- it was at the
end of life, and we had no plan for the future. So we've been
working on building that system back up.
And then the last assessment I mentioned to you, of all
Page 261 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 253
county facilities, was completed in 2017. So we're eight
years removed from the last assessment that was done.
The quality of our AUIR, from our perspective, is
probably a two-year window when it should be quality of up
to five years. It's really about a two-year window in terms
of how we've done our planning side of it, and that gets back
to no planning arm.
And then I mentioned before the average age of a
building is 25 years. And I don't want to skew
that -- because I can pull it up if necessary -- but the
majority of our buildings were built in the 1990s. And so
you see that 2000 -- you have outliers with the museum and
other places in the Everglades, but the majority of our
buildings were actually built in the '90s. So we're sitting at
25 years -- 25, 30 years of building construction that is in
need of some refresh.
Systems of recordkeeping. Public Utilities, Cityworks.
They use Cityworks. Growth Management Plan uses
CityView. Transportation, Cardiograph. Facilities was
using EndoVision, which I mentioned to you was end of life.
We are moving to Cardiograph and to Arc GIS. We
have done those contracts, so we are moving forward with
the plan. And this will be the central clearinghouse of all
the data that you gather so that we have that in one place for
the future so it becomes the living document of work order
systems, project needs, and set forth.
And before I get into this part of it, this is probably a
good time to take the break.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we come back
at 4:40. So we'll take a 10-minute break.
(A brief recess was had from 4:30 p.m. to 4:40 p.m.)
Page 262 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 254
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're all set to continue.
MR. DUNNUCK: So one of the points I always want
to make is it's not what you see. It's what you don't see.
And you can see on the right-hand side in this picture this is
a set of old chiller lines from one of our buildings that we
pulled out. You can see the condition it's in. And so when
you're going to see me talking about moving forward with a
project here on our campus -- we're building the new chiller
right now, but we have to replace all the chiller lines on this
campus as well. They're sitting in underground heavy sulfur
areas, and it's time for replacement. And this is one of the
recommendations we're going to be coming forward with
surtax money with the interest rate from the surtax to fund.
But some of the key facilities I wanted to talk about,
this administration building was built in 1974. We had a
condition assessment done. Well, it was part of the 2017
condition assessment that said keep an eye on it. More
recently, after the hurricanes, we -- we did another
additional assessments for it to look at the feasibility, and
basically, from a structural standpoint, we're okay, but from
a -- when you look at the bones inside this building, you're
going to have a lot of investment costs, and you're going to
be dealing with a lot of issues.
We have -- our access control has to be completely
revamped in here. Our fire suppression has to be completely
revamped in here. And you get to the point where you start
saying, when are we going to start planning for a new
facility? Because a facility of this magnitude, at 90,000
square feet, is going to take some effort in the planning, and
where do you put it on the campus while you keep
Page 263 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 255
continuity of operations? And so those are some of the
challenges.
But one of the people I wanted to invite here today was
a young lady by the name of Korrin Wagar who's got a
speaker slip, but I think this may be an appropriate time.
She sent me an email -- she sent me an email -- she sent the
Board an email approximately two and a half months ago
talking about trying to get in and out of the elevators here.
And I responded back to her, and said, "We are where
we are. We've looked at how we would improve the
elevators." The shafts aren't wide enough to do an
improvement here. We'd have to tear them both down at the
same time to deal with it. And if you're looking at an
exterior elevator or something that was an add-on to this
building, you're talking about exorbitant costs and
challenges with that.
I did mention at the time when I sent her that email a
few months ago that I would invite her to this discussion,
because we've been planning this effort for a while, and let
her share a little bit of her perspective of ingress and egress
out of this building.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We need to
wait j ust a moment to get another microphone.
MR. MILLER: That one was dying.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything you want to fill
us in while we're waiting?
MR. DUNNUCK: No. Just in terms of the structural
analysis we did in this building is this building absorbs a lot
of twisting and heavy wind events, and we've had windows
blow out in some of our storm events. If you heard some of
the noise outside earlier today, it's because, you know, Brian
Page 264 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 256
and his team are actively having a contractor re-caulk these
windows to ensure that we are stopping water penetration.
One of the things, obviously, we're always constantly
battling in South Florida is our building envelopes, and I'll
talk a little bit about that later. But you're always looking at
your roofs, your air conditionings, and your windows and
doors to make sure that you're keeping the building from
water getting inside of it.
Another issue that I was kind of joking about, too, is a
lot of times when they decorate these buildings, they put
planter boxes engraved into the side of the buildings, and
they look nice, but when they attract water and they keep
water inside of them, they cause an acceleration of these
buildings from a standpoint of dealing with spalling and
other issues, and that's something we're dealing with in this
facility as well. And so --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we might be ready
to go.
MR. DUNNUCK: I think we're ready to go.
MR. MILLER: I warned her wireless was dying. It
died.
MS. WAGAR: Hi. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
My name is Korrin Wagar. I'm a retired combat veteran.
I'm vaccine injured and now in a wheelchair following a
diagnosis of multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, and Lyme disease.
My life has evolved very much since my diagnosis and
learned very quickly that accessibility has become a very
important concern for me and others who are like me who
are in a wheelchair or other medical assisted devices.
Anytime I want to go shopping, go on a boat, eat at a
restaurant, visit an office or a government building or attend
Page 265 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 257
a sporting event, I have to ask: Is the entire building
accessible? Can I get into the building? Are there certain
portions of the building that are accessible to me? Is there
no elevator? Is the elevator large enough to accommodate
my wheelchair?
And then I also have to ask about bathrooms. A lot of
times facilities, maybe the building portion may be
accessible, but the bathroom is not.
The elevators here are very difficult to get in and out.
It's kind of like a 10-point turn for me, and it scrapes the side
and damages my wheelchair, so I have to get the VA to help
me with fixing my wheelchair.
Getting in and out in the bathroom is very difficult as
well, to get into the stall, to be able to transfer onto the toilet
and get back, and then open the door, and then to be able to
utilize the facilities from the water, getting the soap,
reaching the soap, and all that, it's not accessible. So it's
very, very difficult for us in wheelchairs.
I want to ensure that accessibility is at the forefront of
planning when building, constructing, or renovating instead
of being an afterthought. Sometimes it feels like that.
When you walk into a building, it's like, "Oh, I guess you
don't want me here."
Accessibility is incredibly important, so it needs to be
at the forefront of every single plan, every single
construction, every single building permit so that we don't
feel like we're not being acknowledged.
Most of the time when I bring up these issues of
accessibility, I will either get a deer in the headlight look or
I will get a panic-stricken one where the individual will
struggle to provide an adequate response of how I can get
Page 266 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 258
into the building, how I can access my representatives, my
congressmen, my senators, or anybody that I wish to speak
to to promote, you know, goodness for the community.
There's nothing more frustrating than wanting to enter a
building and participate or attend an event and not be able to
because of the flexibility issues.
All I ask is that you keep accessibility at the forefront
of planning, adequate clearances for wheelchairs, including
ingress and egress for emergency responders, the gurneys,
and their emergency response equipment.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me ask Mr. Dunnuck
a quick question. On the newer buildings that we have built,
like the county building up at -- off Immokalee Road, that
new facility there, are they in compliance?
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So --
MR. DUNNUCK: Our facilities are in compliance for
the age that the code was adopted. Now, over time, it's
evolved, and things along those lines, where it would be out
of compliance by today's standards, but our new facilities
meet all code compliances.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Because I agree with you,
we have to make sure that that, No. 1, we're in compliance
with the law, which requires it, but just the fact that we want
you to be able to get up here.
Now, this building is -- you know, it is what it is.
MR. DUNNUCK: Yep.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any comments from the
Board? Any additional comments?
(No response.)
Page 267 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 259
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then thank you very
much.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And we will try to
accommodate you as best we can when you want to be here.
MS. WAGAR: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And if that means we
have to send somebody downstairs to represent -- you know,
if somebody from Congressman Donalds' office has to go
downstairs because it's just un-accessible, then we'll make
that happen.
All right. Thank you.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What branch of
service were you in? What branch?
MS. WAGAR: United States Air Force.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Me, too. Me, too.
Come on. We've got to get this done for her. Thanks for
your service.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you for your
service.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you.
MR. DUNNUCK: And so you look at a building from
1974, and then you translate into the Health Department,
which is our next -- one of our significant buildings on this
campus, was built in 1989 -- I know there was a lot of talk
when we were going through the David Lawrence Center
and could you relocate there and repurpose it -- because in
that initial report it had mentioned that building could go
Page 268 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 260
two stories higher than what it is today -- I'd be willing to
guess that by today's code standards, they wouldn't be
allowed because the structure wouldn't support it below.
But we're in a position right now where that building
infrastructure is at about a $45 million estimate just to repair
the basic infrastructure of the building; the HVAC,
structural, electrical, needing upgrades.
And so we're actually in that process of trying to
determine -- and this is what these studies will help us
do -- is it a -- there again, part of a master plan teardown, or
do you invest that money and just do the repair?
And so that's the pro and the con of what we kind of go
through in these processes because you don't want to invest
a bunch of money and then turn around and have to tear it
down right after you've invested that money.
And we want to be sure, from our side, that we're being
methodical and strategic about how we handle the taxpayers'
dollars.
Just on campus, Risk Management, 1961, you'll see
some of these first-level flight buildings here. Human
Resources, 1960. In Risk Management, we just were
plugging a lot of holes because we had penetrations inside
the building, and if I'm being frank, we had rats in the
building that we had to deal with. And we've got a good
handle on it now, but we found penetrations where we didn't
think penetrations existed in dealing with it.
And so, there again, we want to get into this idea of
really figuring out how you replace these buildings in a
meaningful way that's inclusive of everybody.
This is just one of those -- I threw a bunch of pictures
together for my team. And I kind of work over to the red
Page 269 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 261
picture up in the middle top only because -- you know, it's
one of those where my dad always said, you can fix
anything with duct tape and a hammer, and this is clearly
one of those where it's surrounded with some duct tape.
And -- but this is some of the behind-the-scenes stuff
that -- you know, you can paint a building all day long, but
if your infrastructure's failing behind it, it's not going to do
any good. And so I just kind of wanted to throw a few of
these together. And this is by no means all of them. This is
just a sample.
From a work order trend perspective, I thought it would
be kind of important to kind of look at our work order
system. And you can see if you look at over the time being,
it's trending upwards in terms of what we're doing. And,
you know, it breaks down kind of the roof, HVAC, fire
systems, sidewalks, and plumbing.
We had a spike in 2022 that was COVID related where
we had a lot of issues going on between, you know,
preparing these buildings and making sure we're -- you
know, we were prepared. But the overall trend is that our
work orders are trending up, which is an analysis of, all
things being equal, your buildings are getting older.
I just wanted to do a staffing comparison. We did this
back in 2022, so it -- you know, it could be a little dated, but
it just kind of shows an order of magnitude of how our
Facilities department, from a maintenance standpoint,
compares against others. If you looked at us against some of
these other counties and their square footage and what we
maintain in square footage and our level of FTE, you would
see the differential of what our position requirement would
be.
Page 270 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 262
Now, I will preface this, you know, because I don't
want to just say it's just a staff issue, because we have
contractor support, too. But there's always a balance
between contractor support and in-house staffing.
And so as you get into our FY '26 budget proposal,
we're going to have some key positions of what we're
calling, obviously, in the county budget perspective,
hardening positions where they're contracted key staff
positions that we would like to convert over because the
margin of the cost is very de minimis in terms of having
them be an official county employee versus being a
contractor. But this just gives us a little bit of a perspective
of how we're operating as a staff in efficiency standpoint
with other -- with other counties.
I want to, you know, give kudos to the Board. You
know, this is kind of the capital renovation maintenance
spend. You can see it was at 4.7, 4.8 in 2020 and 2021, and
the Board has significantly kind of been pushing it upward.
I think that is a recognition of our need in Facilities.
There again, the issue to me is going to be prioritization.
And are we prioritizing that spend in the best possible
manner for the future because we don't have these
assessments, we haven't done the space utilization, and we
haven't done a master plan in a period of time. We are
reacting to breaks and fixes and not getting out ahead of it.
Building the foundation. You know, I don't want to,
like, seem all gloom and doom with everything, because
we've done a lot of good things in the last six months.
We've created a project manager maintenance supervisor
position to create redundancies. You know, I always
mention that it's like the -- and I hate to be doom about this,
Page 271 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 263
but say, you know, if so and so -- a person was hit by the
bus tomorrow, who would be the backup to step in?
And in our key leadership roles, we had no backup.
We had no secondary level to support our leadership. And
so we have tried to -- you know, we've added these
positions. And I will also tell you -- this is under the County
Manager's and your leadership -- we've taken from the pool
position. We haven't increased our FTEs. We've taken from
those vacancies through Human Resources that have been
created, and we've reprioritized those positions.
Similarly to that, we have a planning position that
we've added to be able to start doing the -- managing this
project and managing the projects moving forward in terms
of space utilization and our software and actually have a
dedicated resource to the future planning efforts that we're
looking to do.
We've also hired an experienced HVAC tech instead of
outsourcing. That person is a 200 percent savings. We were
outsourcing at double the rate. The same person who was
working for a contractor is now coming to work for us, and
we're saving the county taxpayers money by doing that and
having him.
And additionally, the whole concept with him, because
he has probably -- probably got maybe five years left, is to
start training the younger generation. And so he has full
knowledge of our systems, and he can help train the future,
and so it was a key hire for us. There again, no FTE added,
just prioritized within the budget.
We're reviewing a proposal with a third-party vendor to
assess the county facilities. When I talk about the facility
assessment, we're working at an avenue -- and the Board has
Page 272 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 264
set aside about $1.3 million already towards this endeavor
over the past several years. This will come under that
funded budget, and I'll show you a little bit later. It will be
closer to 800,000 is what we're estimating, but we also think
there's a way that we can piggyback off national contracts to
get this thing going immediately. Instead of doing a
year-long procurement process, these are things that I want
to kind of move as aggressively and fast as possible. That
contract, of course, would come back to the Board for
review, but we're moving forward with it.
I mentioned before we're investing in Cartegraph and
Arc GIS as a system of record. As we move into
these -- and when I make the ask for the space utilization,
everything that we identify, we will require that it gets put
into Arc GIS which will be then the input into Cartegraph
which -- you know, from a layman's standpoint, Cartegraph
helps us with the work order system. Arc GIS is the spatial
system that says, where does everybody sit? Where -- you
know, what does everybody do? What are the systems in
place? How do you find them? How do you track them?
How do you do preventative maintenance? All of that is
what we've already worked in place. We've signed those
contracts and are moving forward with it.
Just from a high level, this is kind of one side of the
organization. And I know this is a very busy chart, so I
won't get into terrible detail about it. But if you kind of look
in the light brown positions, you will see some of the
positions of long term we'd like to harden. It's not going to
be the full request in this budget, of course, but strategically
filling some of the vacancies in the green, hiring some of the
ones -- or converting some of the ones in the brown to
Page 273 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 265
longer term, you know, are really key analysis.
One of the other areas we came to was fire. We had
basically one guy doing fire inspections for the whole
county. And you have to have a person of record from the
county for every inspection, and to ask that person to do all
of the county, you know, fire inspections when the fire
departments are there, to be there as the person representing
the county, is too much. So there again, we've added a
position, without adding any new expense to the county,
through the pool position portion of it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How's DeLony the
only one with a picture on that thing? What's up with that?
MR. DUNNUCK: He put this chart together.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I just ask a
question, though? That really surprises me. One person in
the whole county? We don't have key trained people in
certain fire stations that are trained to do inspections as
well?
MR. DUNNUCK: Well, the guys in the fire station
don't represent the county facilities side of it. And there
again, it's kind of the -- you know, they're the ones doing the
inspections a lot of times, so you have to have kind of that
firewall of who the representative is.
And I'm going to talk a little bit more about that, too,
because part of what we're trying to get back at is that we
are the caretaker on behalf of the Board of County
Commissioners of all buildings. I think over the last several
years, it's been more of a decentralized process where the
departments have had a lot more leeway, and we've been
more of a support side of it, customer service oriented
helping out, but really controlling, like, where start -- you
Page 274 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 266
know, there's always this creep that occurs where space
becomes vacant, and then all of a sudden somebody moves
into it without telling anybody else, and it starts expanding,
and we want to make sure that doesn't happen. We want to
actually get back to truly being the caretaker of your county
facilities and dealing with that.
But yes, from a fire perspective, we are very limited in
our positions. And we still have a ways to go. But
we're -- you know, with me it's kind of crawl, not run. I'm
not going to ask you for four positions immediately and say,
"I need all four." We're going to get to a couple. We're
going to assess, then we'll come forward, and we'll prove it
up to you where the need is and where it's, you
know -- where -- you know, where we have some leeway.
But, you know, we're kind of in that, you know, area of
let's build this baseline here, and then we can continue to
grow.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll just offer this.
And I know the military's different, but it's part of the base
that I pull from from my previous life.
At the bases that I commanded where we had 20 fire
stations, like at Andrew's Air Force Base, we used to pick
key people in the fire stations and send them to those
facilities' training courses, and they got extra pay because of
it, and it allowed us -- because our civil engineer didn't have
enough people to do the inspections, and so we augmented
that staff. And they had to go to a specific course. It might
not be what we can do here, but just hearing that there's one
is, I'm sure, concerning to all of us.
MR. DUNNUCK: And we'll continue to look at those
models. You know, part of what I mentioned before is our
Page 275 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 267
trades workers from a standpoint of, you know, our blend of
both, you know, contracted and in-house -- you know, we do
a lot of contracted work, and so the burden on the guys who
are the trades workers, we prioritize those towards their
trades and what they're good at first and foremost.
And so, you know, it's a constant evaluation.
Obviously, we take everybody individually what their skill
set is. But from a core, we wanted to get at, you know, the
additional inspection side of it.
You know -- and maintenance, you know -- and, you
know, obviously, you'll see fire, too. Fire also includes,
obviously, systems, right? We've got to take care of the
system. So there's inspection and systems you have to work
through in terms of how we're caretaking for the public
safety.
And part of the FY '26 budget is you're going to see
some additional positions -- and I'll mention to you in a
minute -- for public safety. And it's not only public safety of
our access control in the capital side of it, but it's also for the
active shooter side of it. Are we continuing staying up with
our plans and our reports? Are we training, making sure that
everybody -- we're working with Dan Summers' group,
working with the Sheriff's Office, working with the
coordination that needs to be done. And so the vision is to
get some additional leadership in there to be concentrating
solely on public safety, which we haven't had for several
years.
Deferred maintenance, you know, here's the
recommendation I mentioned before: Hire the third-party
consultant. We don't have the bandwidth to do it internally.
We have way too many facilities to go around inspecting
Page 276 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 268
from our standpoint.
Assess the building envelopes and all the vertical
structures, working with building estimates for repair.
This -- the company we're talking about uses US Means;
they're reputable nationally.
Prioritize based on safety and operations. I kind of
mentioned you kind of look on the right side, kind of like
the priority list of how you do facility assessment which
kind of speaks all the way from public safety to, you know,
deficiencies.
Integrate findings into the system of record. You
know, that's important to make sure it all gets in the
document, make sure it all gets in the system of records so
everything we have has a life beyond Brian and myself that
the next person who comes in can take care of it.
And then I mentioned before we're looking to utilize
Sourcewell to expedite this. We're going to continue to
evaluate it. We're working with Procurement. It may or
may not be the best solution, but I think we feel pretty good
about it at this point in time.
And then the funding is budgeted. I mentioned before,
you have set aside $1.3 million to build up in this plan, this
plan -- this part of it costs about $800,000 to do it. We want
to get that going because this step then leads to the next step.
You kind of have to know what your as-is condition is
before you can start working into your to-bes.
Space utilization, you know, this is kind of the Step 2.
The problem definition is we've had a decentralized
approach to space planning, no system of record of where
people sit. Like, I couldn't accurately tell you how much
square footage the Clerk has right now. My goal is to be
Page 277 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 269
able to tell you how much -- the square footage the Clerk
has.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's just ask her.
MR. DUNNUCK: And it's that trust but verify, right?
No. But, no. I'm just using her as an example. But it's
that kind of thing of really having a handle on our
departments, where we're at, and where the future is, and
what we're -- we need to schedule.
You know, standards not followed. You can go into
one office space and it's large, one office space and it's
small. We have standards. It's just over time, with
organizational changes and moves and forth, we've lost
handle of what those square footage standards look like and
where we're in compliance, where we're out of compliance.
The whole GIS indoor system is going to help us get there.
So we can -- you know, it's not to say we've got to
move everybody into a square box and everybody has to be
absolutely equal, but it's an evaluation tool to say, "How far
out of standards are we, or are we in our standards?"
I mentioned underutilized space by design. We have a
lot of areas that, frankly, were just designed poorly that have
wasted areas. You know, we -- we walked through the EOC
not too terribly long ago, and you have these big hallways
and broken up areas. And I know, obviously, the design of
the time might have made sense, but, you know, as we go
into renovations and you start looking at cost benefit of
adding a building versus renovating a building, you may
want to look at some of those underutilized space areas as
we're working for efficiencies.
And then operational efficiencies. If one thing COVID
kind of taught us is you can operationalize space savings.
Page 278 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 270
One of the things when we're talking about Guardian Ad
Litem in their move is they have found -- and they're,
obviously, not an organization of the county, but they have
found that they can work remotely in some cases, and so
their square footage needs in state standards versus what
they're willing to go with in a move is different, it's less,
because they can have three people in the office, the
requirement three days a week versus all five.
And so as we work with departments and we look at
operational efficiencies, should there be a bullpen because
the guy's out in the field, or does he have a dedicated office.
You know, you look at those kind of things as you're
working through facilities.
And then I mentioned to you this [sic] before is daily
uses reports -- and I'll show you in a second. You know,
one of the things that kills me is -- is space that sits vacant
80 percent of the time. You should always be looking at
what is the actual occupancy in a daily basis, not a, you
know, long-period-of-time basis.
But the example I'll use is the training rooms. This is a
list of the training rooms we have on this campus alone.
We've got Human Resources, Risk, Facilities, Public
Utilities, Clerk's, Judicial, Sheriff, IT. And it's territorial.
Each one of them serves their own purpose, but how much
are we actually utilizing that training space? How often are
they in there on a daily basis?
And should we start sharing these spaces instead of
programming it out by department? Should we start
working in a manner that, you know, we figure out how a
calendar works, and we can work it that way.
And so, you know -- and then you can repurpose that
Page 279 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 271
space for other needs. And it's just -- to me, it's some level
of common sense. But if you don't have the system in place
to do it, you're -- you know, you don't have a good handle on
what you're, you know, trying to get to in the future.
And I mentioned this before, space utilization from
efficiency. Our recommendation is make sure that it's
understood that the Board owns the space. When we get
into discussions about, you know, the Sheriff's facilities,
other areas, you know, we want to make sure that,
ultimately, the responsibility of these facilities is the county
and that we need to be the caretaker.
And sometimes that means saying no. Sometimes that
means compromise. You know, we'll be the enforcement
side of it in Facilities, but we also need to say that we're
taking it back a little bit.
I've had a few discussions between other constitutionals
in the past several months where there are some space
requirements on both sides, and we're trying to work our
way to compromise. But ultimately, it needs to be owned by
the county -- the Board of County Commissioners.
And so one of the things I'm trying to bring back is
kind of that attitude of it needs to work through us. Exactly.
Audit the current space. You know, I mentioned that
before. You've got to see where we're at. We've got to get it
documented. We've got to know where everybody is. Input
the data in the system of record, identify common areas,
examine daily usages, and incorporate these findings into
the master planning's efforts.
So if you think about the steps and you say, "Okay,
what's the condition of our facilities?" you're not going to be
looking -- if a building's an F and you want to tear -- it's a
Page 280 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 272
teardown, you're not looking at reutilizing that space.
You're looking at moving people out of that space to
somewhere else. But you have to know where your
efficiencies are everywhere else.
And so the first two steps of both looking at the
condition of your buildings and looking at your space
utilization truly lead you into the master planning effort.
I'm going to step away from that for -- just real quick
because as part of this I mentioned to you that there is an
underlying issue, which is a security assessment of public
safety. You know, we have an aging infrastructure. It's
great when you have the high-tech stuff when you start off
and access control, and we have our central control room
over at Facilities, but we have a lot of equipment that's aged
out. You know, these are things that should be in a
recycling plan of every seven years to be in our budget and
to be a replacement.
And we have kind of looked at those as capital
initiatives and not looked at them as operational to take care
of. And so we have legacy fire alarm systems. We were on
fire watch here for, I want to say, almost two months
because we have a Johnson control unit system, and here
and other facilities -- and that's -- I took the pictures up
above -- that is the old prip -- pri -- pripar -- oh,
gosh -- pri -- you know, old pri -- I can't even say it right
now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we know what
you're trying to say.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's old.
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes, exactly. That it's so old you
can't find equipment for it.
Page 281 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 273
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want to see the
transcript for that.
MR. DUNNUCK: I swear it's only water in here.
But yes -- and you have access control units that need
replacement. You know, we've had card access failures
we've all experienced in this building. Security access point
needs some upgrades. And then, as I mentioned, the
reoccurring life cycle.
On this other side of it is the security personnel. You
know, making sure we're continuing with the threat
assessments. Safety through design. You know, one of the
things is every time you're looking at a facility, do you have
a person with a set of eyes on a new facility, making sure
that they're actually building it with safety in mind through
design where your lighting structures are people's paths in
and out of parking lots. You know, how you do the -- you
know, the landscaping.
And so we're going to be coming to you in the FY '26
budget with our recommendations to -- you know, for
security being one of our high priorities in Facilities.
And then the final part is develop the master plan.
Complete Step 1 and 2, develop a formal inclusive process
of all stakeholders. You know, one thing that the Clerk and
I talk about is -- is when previous plans have been done,
there have been people left out of the discussions, and so
plans get done, get built, and then the stakeholder who also
has a stake in it is saying, "Wait a second, nobody talked to
me," or they started in a plan and they talked to them and it
didn't finish in a plan.
And so we're going to make sure we have sign-offs and
stakeholder meetings. We had a great meeting on the
Page 282 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 274
Immokalee government center. It started off rough, but it
got better and better as we talked about programming out at
that facility because we had the stakeholders in the room
working through the issues together. And I think they
would all pretty much say they felt pretty good about it at
the end of it. We want that process to be engraved in our
system.
And -- and then when you get into master planning,
there shouldn't be a master plan over here, a master plan
over there. You know, we really should be working towards
truly master planning so that, as I mentioned, kind of, to me,
it's strategic land acquisition for one thing so that if fire
needs something and EMS needs something, you know,
we're pretty good about kind of matching that up now.
But when you look at other shared-use facilities,
libraries, parks, you know, are we looking at the future of
collocations and having true government centers in other
places? It starts with kind of knowing what the
subdivisional plans are and how they all feed into one
general master plan.
I mentioned to you, you know, trust but verify.
Obviously, you know, we always get people's wish list, but
you've got to make sure -- you've got to -- you know, you've
got to hold people accountable to prove it up. And so part of
this process, we'll be making sure that there is an
accountability aspect of everything working forward.
And then continue to invest in the plan. The worst
thing is to put a plan -- to develop a plan, spend all this
money, put it on a shelf, you know. That plan should be a
living document that should be part of every decision
you-all make moving forward so that you understand how it
Page 283 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 275
evolves. A master plan is not going to be perfect. It's going
to change, but making sure that you kind of continue to
work with it as you're -- as you're making the change.
And so kind of next steps, I mentioned to you before
deferred maintenance. We have that study funded. We have
space utilization partially funded. And then master
planning -- between the rest of space utilization and master
planning, that's part of our FY '26 budget request. We have
about three and a half million dollars of requests to finish
those items out.
I won't say -- you know, I know we technically don't
always do kind of, you know, a year by year what you think
the spend is going to be within a project. We fund it all up
front. But from my standpoint, we're going to need about
three and a half million dollars to complete the rest of this
plan. And, honestly, if we started today, we're talking five
years. I mean, this is not an overnight thing. These -- these
things will take time.
You have 5 million square feet of structures -- I want to
say the last count I saw was 818 structures themselves -- to
look at now. You have about 3.8 million of building
envelope to work with, but you need to start that plan as
soon as you can. And that's my recommendation. And
obviously, this was a precursor to AUIR coming up and then
moving into the budget workshops.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This money is just
for study and analysis and prioritization, right? It's not for
actual --
MR. DUNNUCK: Yeah. This is -- this is just to build
the building blocks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
Page 284 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 276
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and this all
feeds back into, again, history lessons.
When, Commissioner Saunders, you and I came into
office, there was a billion dollars of unfunded capital and
maintenance issues on the front page of the budget that had
been deferred by -- and, of course, we always blame
previous administrations.
But it had been deferred based upon the priorities at
those particular times. And, you know, we picked up,
plus/minus, 500 million -- I say we picked up. There was
500 million or so gathered with the sales tax initiative. And
then we've been plugging away sporadically at the deferred
maintenance and other capital deficits.
But it's past time for this to be done. I mean, I can't -- I
can't support this any more than I have.
I'll help you every way I possibly can. I mean, this has
to be done. We can do all the DOGE efforts that
we're -- that put upon us from the state and everything else,
but if you're chasing your tail with deferred maintenance and
capital expenditures, you're just going to keep going in a
circle.
MR. DUNNUCK: And it's a recognition. You know, I
mentioned the '90s. You know, obviously, I was here from
'95 to 2014.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, so this is your
fault.
MR. DUNNUCK: Well, you know, it was an
impact -- it was an impact-fee world. It was you're building
new stuff. You weren't thinking the long-term maintenance
of it. And now we're 25 years later, and we've got to deal
with it.
Page 285 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 277
That's why I mentioned, like, when we did the -- you
know, the guaranteed maximum price for David Lawrence
Center, we incorporated in a "You need to start thinking the
capital maintenance of that building," you know, now
because you don't want the sticker shock of having to do
replacement for a $60 million building down the road. You
want to start kind of building that into your integration of
your thought process.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other
questions or comments from the Commission?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.
MR. DUNNUCK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, anything
else in this?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I believe that takes us to
the end. We put off the issue dealing with shelter from the
storm and that sort of thing for a later date because of the
lateness of the hour.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. That brings us to
Item 15, staff and commission general communications.
Item 15A is public comments on general topics not on
Page 286 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 278
the current or future agenda by individuals not already heard
during previous public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
Item #15B
STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
MS. PATTERSON: Very good.
Item 15B is staff project updates. The update on the
state DOGE will take 30 seconds. We have transmitted the
resolution to the state DOGE. We have had two sets of
correspondence and data requests from the state DOGE
office, and we have fulfilled both of those and are awaiting
any further requests or direction. So so far we've been able
to provide them everything that they've asked for.
The update on hurricane season preparedness, we're
actually going to move that into June, and we'll combine it
with our usual kind of hurricane roundup -- hurricane
preparedness. The reason it was on the agenda here for
today was Senator Scott had his hurricane preparedness
meeting at the EOC today. Unfortunately, we weren't able
to attend that. So Director Summers will give us an update
on that, but he said it all went well.
And with that, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Daniel.
Page 287 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 279
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have nothing either.
I can come up with something if you give me a second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, that's --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: There's a lot of
unused space in his office. We might want to start there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yeah. There we
go. Yeah. Exactly.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Amy, I just wanted
to thank you for keeping your promise to stay focused on
Station 21. I mean, I know we just -- and I appreciate my
colleagues unanimously approving the pursuit of that
property. But what we did today is we have a grossly
undersized fire station that sits next to a parcel of land that
the county owns that sits next to a rundown hotel that could
be better utilized by using that acreage as part of a fire
station expansion.
So I know we still have a long way to go, but I
appreciate you keeping it on your radar and all the hard
work you've done to sort of push through a really, really
great plan. And obviously, all the commissioners are aware
of it, but I wanted to just, you know, thank you for
spearheading it and keeping me posted. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. This is a
request from Mr. Yovanovich. He has -- we had the NC
Naples [sic]. Right now it's tentatively set for June 24th,
and we're not going to have a full Board for that.
MS. PATTERSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So his question was, "Can
we continue this to that first meeting in July," which I
believe is July 9th.
Page 288 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 280
Now, we have a policy where we don't general hear
controversial zoning things, but we've not necessarily
followed that policy. So the question is whether the Board
is willing to hear this at our first meeting in July.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My personal belief
is -- I know we don't by policy hear contentious land-use
items, but with all of the capacities that are available and
the -- you know, the hybrid systems that we have in place,
no one's precluded from participating.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So no
objections.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So if you'd
advise Mr. Yovanovich that we will accommodate him and
hear this -- I think it was -- is it July 8th?
MS. PATTERSON: The 8th, July 8th. This does give
us the opportunity -- because I know that the communities
have been in touch with several of your offices, so we will
be sure that we reach out and advise them of those hearing
dates as well as their ability to participate by Zoom if they
happen to be traveling or out of the area.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And here's the other
thing, if we hear it, it doesn't mean we have to vote on it. So
if any one commissioner here thinks that that day we're
missing a key piece or some citizens voice something that is
more than what we are comfortable with, you know, we can
always, you know, hear it, and, you know, we're not saying
we're definitely voting on something on the 8th.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. I believe that
Mr. Yovanovich and his client have heard the concerns of
the communities and are moving in a direction that will be
Page 289 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 281
more -- that the community will be happier with, but that
remains to be seen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. My only comment
is I want to thank the Board for considering the issue dealing
with the Paradise Coast park and that potential for the tourist
tax issue. I think it was an -- it's an important issue and one
that I take very personally, so I'm looking forward to
continuing that.
With that, unless there's something else, we are adjourned.
*******
Page 290 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 282
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
Saunders, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
RECORDING THE MINOR PLAT OF GOODLAND SHORES,
APPLICATION NUMBER PL20240013281 - A SUBDIVISION OF
LANDS LOCATED IN SECTION 18, TOWNSHIP 52 SOUTH,
RANGE 27 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE
SEWER FACILITIES FOR CITGO GAS STATION #184
IMPROVEMENTS, PL20250001019
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR SEVEN SHORES PHASE 2A AND 2C, PL20240007049 - A
FINAL INSPECTION ON FEBRUARY 21, 2025, FOUND THESE
FACILITIES TO BE SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE
Item #16A4
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR SEVEN SHORES PHASE 2B, PL20240011319 - FINAL
Page 291 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 283
INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED BY THE DEVELOPMENT
REVIEW STAFF ON FEBRUARY 25, 2025, IN COORDINATION
WITH PUBLIC UTILITIES. THESE FACILITIES WERE FOUND
TO BE SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR SEVEN SHORES PHASE 1F, PL20240005501
Item #16A6
COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE
UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS) IN THE
AMOUNT OF $32,033.50 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR
DEVELOPER’S DESIGNATED AGENT FOR ALTIS SANTA
BARBARA, PL20230009204
Item #16A7
RECORDING THE PLAT OF ANTHEM PARKWAY - PHASE 5B,
(APPLICATION NUMBER PL20220004185), APPROVAL OF THE
STANDARD FORM CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE
AGREEMENT, AND APPROVAL OF THE PERFORMANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,035,840.60 - A
SUBDIVISION OF LANDS LOCATED IN SECTION 33,
TOWNSHIP 47 SOUTH, RANGE 29 EAST, AND SECTION 4,
TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 29 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA
Page 292 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 284
Item #16A8
RESOLUTION 2025-102: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT
DEDICATIONS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF AZURE AT
HACIENDA LAKES, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20150002352,
AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $550,805.24
Item #16A9
RESOLUTION 2025-103: FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS FOR THE FINAL
PLAT OF BELLA TESORO AN ESPLANADE COMMUNITY –
PHASE 1, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20190001408, AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $743,372.46
Item #16A10
RESOLUTION 2025-104: FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL
PLAT OF THRIVE AT NAPLES, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20160002147, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $80,422.78
Item #16A11
Page 293 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 285
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN 1) A FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION (“FDEP”) CONSENT ORDER
RESOLUTION OFFER, 2) AN ADDENDUM TO AGREEMENT
FOR SALE AND PURCHASE INDEMNIFYING COLLIER
COUNTY, AND 3) A TEMPORARY ACCESS EASEMENT FROM
COLLIER COUNTY TO CYPRESS COVE LANDKEEPERS, INC.,
F/K/A CYPRESS COVE CONSERVANCY, INC., THE CONTRACT
SELLER, AND ITS CONTRACTORS, TO COMPLETE
REQUIRED MONITORING AND REPLANTING, IF REQUIRED
BY FDEP, RELATED TO A PENDING PROPERTY PURCHASER
FOR THE CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM LOCATED IN
THE DR. ROBERT H. GORE III PROJECT AREA
Item #16A12
THE PROPERTIES ON THE MARCH AND APRIL 2025
CONSERVATION COLLIER ACTIVE ACQUISITION LIST (AAL)
AND DIRECT STAFF TO PURSUE THE PROJECTS
RECOMMENDED WITHIN THE A-CATEGORY, FUNDED BY
THE CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION FUND
Item #16A13
AN AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION PROGRAM
WITH CAMERON LAUTZ FOR A 2.27-ACRE PARCEL AT A
COST OF $72,640, FOR A TOTAL COST NOT TO EXCEED
$74,410 INCLUSIVE OF CLOSING COSTS - PARCEL
#38846160008, SOUTH OFF 64TH AVE NE, WEST OF
EVERGLADES BLVD. N.
Page 294 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 286
Item #16A14
THE NAMING OF BREWERS LANDING PRESERVE AND THE
INTERIM MANAGEMENT PLAN UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM
Item #16A15
SECOND AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 22-7966,
“BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL OFFICIALS,” WITH THE
COLLIER RECREATION BASEBALL/SOFTBALL UMPIRE
ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR A ONE-YEAR RENEWAL AND A
PRICE INCREASE FOR THE REMAINING RENEWAL TERMS
Item #16A16
THE DONATION OF TWO FLOATING DOCKS FOR USE AT
SUGDEN REGIONAL PARK WITH AN ESTIMATED FAIR
MARKET VALUE OF $40,149 IN SUPPORT OF THE PARKS
AND RECREATION DIVISION’S WATER-SKIING PROGRAM
FROM THE FREEDOM WATERS FOUNDATION
Item #16A17
INCREASE OF EXPENDITURES FROM $50,000 TO $100,000
PER FISCAL YEAR UNDER AN EXEMPTION FROM THE
COMPETITIVE PROCESS FOR COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF’S
OFFICE’S AGREEMENT #22-027-NS, LAW ENFORCEMENT
SERVICES, CONTINUING THROUGH THE FINAL RENEWAL
TERM’S EXPIRATION DATE OF JUNE 18, 2027, AND
AUTHORIZATION TO TERMINATE AGREEMENT #22-031-NS
Page 295 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 287
WITH THE COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FOR
DELNOR-WIGGINS LAW ENFORCEMENT SPECIAL DETAIL
Item #16A18
RESOLUTION 2025-105: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
TEMPORARY CLOSING OF A PORTION OF VETERANS
MEMORIAL BOULEVARD AND LIVINGSTON ROAD AND
DETERMINING THAT THE CLOSURE IS NECESSARY FOR
THE ASHER FULL SCALE TRAINING ON JUNE 4, 2025, TO
FULFILL COLLIER COUNTY’S PERMIT REQUIREMENTS FOR
TEMPORARY EVENTS ON COLLIER COUNTY PROPERTY
Item #16A19
BUDGET AMENDMENT OF $1,500,000 FOR DOMESTIC
ANIMAL SERVICES (DAS) TO ADDRESS INCREASED
OPERATIONAL EXPENSES, INCLUDING VETERINARY
SERVICES, TEMPORARY LABOR, AND NECESSARY
EQUIPMENT AND SUPPLIES, ENSURING CONTINUED
COMPLIANCE WITH STATE STATUTES AND INDUSTRY
STANDARDS
Item #16A20
THE NAPLES ZOO, INC.'S PROPOSED PROJECT FOR THE
"SAFARI CANYON" PROJECT TO ALLOW THE ZOO TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS
Item #16B1
Page 296 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 288
GRANT APPLICATION FOR COMMUNITY PROJECT FUNDING
(CPF) / CONGRESSIONALLY DIRECTED SPENDING (CDS) IN
THE AMOUNT OF $4,190,000 TO ASSIST WITH THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW TRANSIT OPERATIONS AND
MAINTENANCE FACILITY THROUGH THE FEDERAL
TRANSIT AWARD MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (TRAMS),
ACCEPT THE AWARD, AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16B2
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE DONATION OF A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT (PARCEL 129DE) REQUIRED FOR WILLET
AVENUE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS. ESTIMATED FISCAL
IMPACT: $100
Item #16B3
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER METROPOLITAN
PLANNING ORGANIZATION’S (THE “MPO”) LEASE
AGREEMENT EXTENDING THE AGREEMENT TO JUNE 30,
2028, AND INCREASING THE ANNUAL RENT AND COMMON
AREA MAINTENANCE TO $13,875, AND THE AMENDED AND
RESTATED STAFF SERVICES AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
MPO AND THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS (THE “BOARD”). (TRANSPORTATION
OPERATING FUND 1001)
Item #16B4
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL NO. 24-8226, “PROJECT
Page 297 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 289
MANAGEMENT SERVICES,” TO JACOB’S ENGINEERING
GROUP INC., CAPITAL CONSULTING SOLUTIONS, LLC, AND
KIMLEY-HORN AND ASSOCIATES, INC., ON A PRIMARY,
SECONDARY, AND TERTIARY BASIS, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT
Item #16B5
WORK ORDER FOR CSA OCEAN SCIENCES, INC., TO
CONTINUE THE REQUIRED POST-CONSTRUCTION
HARDBOTTOM MONITORING FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY
BEACH NOURISHMENT PROJECT IN SUMMER 2025 FOR
TIME AND MATERIALS NOT TO EXCEED $487,367.52
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS UNDER
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT NO. 22-8015,
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE WORK
ORDER, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES
TOURISM (FUND 1105, PROJECT NO. 90033)
Item #16B6
RESOLUTION 2025-106: RESOLUTION 2025-107:
RESOLUTIONS AUTHORIZING THE CHAIRMAN TO
EXECUTE THE REVISED PUBLIC TRANSIT GRANT
AGREEMENT (PTGA) SECTION 5310 FPN# 448810-1-94-24,
AND AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO THE PUBLIC TRANSIT GRANT
AGREEMENT SECTION 5339 FPN# 439255-1-94-23, WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT), TO
ACCEPT FEDERAL TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION (FTA)
GRANT FUNDING MODIFICATIONS, AND TO AUTHORIZE
THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Page 298 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 290
Item #16B7
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE DONATION OF A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT (PARCEL 117DE2) REQUIRED FOR EVERGLADES
CITY STORMWATER DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS - THE
PARCEL IS 1,608.13 SQUARE FEET IN EXTENT, IS
RECTANGULAR IN SHAPE, AND IS LOCATED ON THE
NORTH SIDE OF THE PARENT TRACT
Item #16B8
WORK ORDER IN THE AMOUNT OF $11,977.00 TO ARDAMAN
& ASSOCIATES, INC., UNDER THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
LIBRARY AGREEMENT NO. 18-7432-TE FOR SEDIMENT
COMPLIANCE CRITERIA TESTING SERVICE FOR THE PARK
SHORE BEACH RENOURISHMENT PROJECT, AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE ATTACHED WORK
ORDER, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS EXPENDITURE
PROMOTES TOURISM. (FUND 1105, PROJECT NO. 90067)
Item #16B9
AWARD INVITATION FOR QUALIFICATION NO. 24-8225,
“REAL ESTATE APPRAISAL AND CONSULTING SERVICES,”
TO RKL APPRAISAL AND CONSULTING, PLC, CARROLL &
CARROLL APPRAISERS & CONSULTANTS, LLC, MAXWELL,
HENDRY & SIMMONS, LLC, CBRE, INC, THE URBAN GROUP,
INC., KOVA APPRAISAL & CONSULTING SERVICES, LLC
D/B/A CARLSON NORRIS & ASSOCIATES, AND ANDERSON &
Page 299 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 291
CARR, INC., AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AGREEMENTS
Item #16C1
CHANGE ORDER NO. 7 TO AGREEMENT NO. 21-7938, WITH
R2T, INC., FOR THE MASTER PUMP STATION 302.00 SITE
IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT, ADDING NINETY DAYS TO THE
CONTRACT TIME, APPROVING THE USE OF $14,563.80 OF
THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCE, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT NO. 70215)
Item #16C2
AWARD OF INVITATION TO BID NO. 24-8307 TO CHEMICAL
INJECTION PARTNERS FLORIDA, LLC, AS THE PRIMARY
VENDOR, AND RAZORBACK, LLC, AS THE SECONDARY
VENDOR, FOR DEEP INJECTION WELL SYSTEM
PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENTS
Item #16C3
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES NO. 24-
8229 TO JONES EDMUNDS & ASSOCIATES, INC., FOR DESIGN
SERVICES FOR THE IMMOKALEE RECYCLING DROP-OFF
CENTER AND SCALEHOUSE & CONTROL CENTER PROJECT,
AUTHORIZING THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $1,136,381 (PROJECT 70232)
Page 300 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 292
Item #16D1
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO ALLOW CONTINUOUS
OPERATION OF THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM WITH AN ANTICIPATED AWARD IN
THE AMOUNT OF $3,135,160 FOR STATE FY 2025/2026. (SHIP
GRANT FUND 1053)
Item #16D2
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THREE (3) RELEASES OF LIEN
FOR FULL PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $61,612.03
PURSUANT TO THE AGREEMENT FOR DEFERRAL OF 100%
OF COLLIER COUNTY IMPACT FEES FOR OWNER OCCUPIED
AFFORDABLE HOUSING DWELLINGS
Item #16D3
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN TWO (2) MORTGAGE
SATISFACTIONS FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP LOAN PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF
$54,000.00. (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053)
Item #16D4
THE GRANT ELIGIBILITY APPLICATION FOR A GRANT
DONATION TO SUPPORT THE REPLACEMENT OF CARPET AT
THE EAST NAPLES LIBRARY IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,600.00.
(PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839)
Page 301 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 293
Item #16D5
TWO (2) BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL FISCAL
YEAR 2023/2024 SHIP PROGRAM ALLOCATION OF $92,466.00
AND TO RECOGNIZE $169,333.94 IN PROGRAM INCOME
FROM OVERNIGHT, INVESTMENT INTEREST AND PAYOFFS
FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP
PROGRAM FISCAL YEAR 2024/2025 (SHIP GRANT FUND
1053)
Item #16D6
RESOLUTION 2025-108: RESOLUTION 2025-109: (1) A
RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS ESTABLISHING A LOCAL DISASTER
PROGRAM, AND (2) A RESOLUTION TO APPROVE A
TECHNICAL REVISION TO FISCAL YEARS 2022-2025 AND
2025-2028 STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP
LOCAL HOUSING ASSISTANCE PLAN, ADDING LOCAL
DISASTER RESPONSE GRANT PROGRAM ASSISTANCE
LANGUAGE AND CLARIFYING LANGUAGE TO THE
DISASTER ASSISTANCE STRATEGY. (SHIP GRANT FUND
1053)
Item #16D7
AFTER-THE-FACT ELECTRONIC SUBMITTAL OF THE FISCAL
YEAR 2026 AMERICORPS SEPTEMBER 11TH NATIONAL DAY
OF SERVICE AND REMEMBRANCE GRANT CONTINUATION
APPLICATION TO AMERICORPS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$196,561 AND ALLOW THE COUNTY MANAGER, OR HER
Page 302 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 294
DESIGNEE, TO SERVE AS THE AUTHORIZED
REPRESENTATIVE FOR ALL ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTING
AND GRANT SUBMISSION THROUGH THE GRANTOR
ELECTRONIC SUBMISSION SYSTEM, EGRANTS,
THROUGHOUT THE GRANT PERIOD. (HOUSING GRANT
FUND 1835)
Item #16D8
SECOND AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NUMBER
18-7470, “SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM,” WITH
SUMMIT HOME RESPIRATORY SERVICES, INC., D/B/A
SUMMIT HOME HEALTHCARE PRODUCTS, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AMENDMENT
Item #16D9
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NUMBER
18-7470 “SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM,” WITH VIP
AMERICA OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, LLC, AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AMENDMENT
Item #16D10
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NUMBER
18-7470, “SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM,” WITH
MARANATHA HOME CARE, INC., D/B/A A BETTER HEALTH
CARE, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AMENDMENT
Page 303 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 295
Item #16F1
RATIFY ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED CHANGE ORDER
NO. 1 UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 23-8096 WITH
HEATHERWOOD CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, ADDING 78
DAYS TO THE SUBSTANTIAL COMPLETION DATE AND
UTILIZING $214,087.62 OF THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCE FOR
PURCHASE ORDER NO. 4500229441 ON THE PELICAN BAY
NEW MAINTENANCE FACILITY PROJECT, AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT NO. 50211)
Item #16F2
AWARD CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID NO. 25-8349,
“CCSO JAIL BUILDINGS J1-J2 EGRESS DOOR ALTERATIONS,”
TO GEMINI PROPERTIES GROUP, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF
$276,251.00, APPROVE AN OWNER’S ALLOWANCE OF
$10,000.00, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACH ED AGREEMENT
Item #16F3
APPROVED EXPENDITURES WITH AIRBUS HELICOPTERS,
INC., IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $355,000 PER FISCAL
YEAR FOR COSTS RELATED TO: (1) A SOLE SOURCE
WAIVER FOR HCARESMART SERVICE AGREEMENT NO. 18-
7291 IN THE AMOUNT OF $110,000 PER FISCAL YEAR, (2) A
SEPARATE SOLE SOURCE WAIVER FOR EQUIPMENT PARTS,
REPAIRS, AND SERVICES NOT COVERED UNDER THE
HCARESMART SERVICE AGREEMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
Page 304 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 296
$210,000 PER FISCAL YEAR, AND (3) AN EXEMPTION FOR
TRAINING RELATED TO THE COUNTY’S AIR AMBULANCE
HELICOPTER IN THE AMOUNT OF $35,000 PER FISCAL YEAR
Item #16F4
AMENDMENT NO. 20 TO THE AGREEMENT WITH COLLIER
COUNTY DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD FOR THE DRIVER
EDUCATION PROGRAM, EXTENDING THE DRIVER’S
EDUCATION FUNDING COLLECTED UNDER THE DORI
SLOSBERG DRIVER EDUCATION ORDINANCE FOR AN
ADDITIONAL YEAR
Item #16F5
RESOLUTION 2025-110 : A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES
Item #16G1
RESOLUTION 2025-111 : A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
EXECUTION OF AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION GRANT AGREEMENT (PTGA) 452976-1-94-
01, CONTRACT NO. G2J23 WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO EXTEND THE END
Page 305 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 297
DATE OF THE AGREEMENT FOR THE SECURITY
ENHANCEMENTS AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT
FROM JUNE 30, 2025, TO JUNE 30, 2026, TO PROVIDE
SUFFICIENT TIME FOR PROJECT COMPLETION
Item #16G2
RESOLUTION 2025-112 : A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
EXECUTION OF AN AMENDMENT NO. 2 TO PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION GRANT AGREEMENT (PTGA) 450766-1-94-
01, CONTRACT NO. G2861 WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) TO EXTEND
THE END DATE OF THE AGREEMENT FROM JUNE 30, 2025,
TO DECEMBER 31, 2025, TO PROVIDE SUFFICIENT TIME FOR
PROJECT COMPLETION
Item #16G3
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO REALLOCATE AND TRANSFER
CAPITAL FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $108,815.40 TO
REHABILITATE AND REPAIR THE EXTERIOR OF SIX FUEL
STORAGE TANKS AT THE MARCO ISLAND EXECUTIVE
AIRPORT (MKY) TO MEET FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION (FDEP) REQUIREMENTS.
(AIRPORT CAPITAL FUND 4091)
Item #16I
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE, May 27, 2025
Item #16J1
Page 306 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 298
THE EXECUTION OF A BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR $479,000
TO REPLACE 10 COMMUNICATIONS CONSOLES FOR 9-1-1
OPERATIONS
Item #16J2
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $51,524,215.80 WERE DRAWN FOR THE
PERIODS BETWEEN MAY 1, 2025, AND MAY 14, 2025,
PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16J3
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF MAY 21, 2025
Item #16K1
WAIVE THE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT FOR NICOLAS
FABREGAS ON THE PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION
BOARD - ELECTED TO A FOUR-YEAR TERM ON
MARCH 11, 2025
Item #16K2
PROVIDE INFORMED WRITTEN CONSENT WAIVING ANY
POTENTIAL CONFLICT THAT THE BOARD MAY HAVE
Page 307 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 299
CONCERNING THE LAW FIRM CARLTON FIELDS, P.A. (THE
“FIRM”) UNDER THE COUNTY’S CURRENT RETENTION
AGREEMENT WITH THE FIRM CONCERNING ITS
UNRELATED REPRESENTATION OF WILLIAMS FARMS
LAND ASSETS, LLC, A FLORIDA LIMITED LIABILITY
COMPANY, WILLIAMS FARMS OF IMMOKALEE, INC., A
FLORIDA CORPORATION, DIANE R. WILLIAMS AND CARRIE
E. WILLIAMS AS CO-TRUSTEE OF THE JAMES E. WILLIAMS,
JR. NON-EXEMPT ESTATE TAX SHELTERED TRUST U/A/D
08/13/93, CARRIE E. WILLIAMS AND JAMES E. WILLIAMS, III
AS TRUSTEES OF THE WILLIAMS FAMILY ASSETS TRUST
U/A DATED APRIL 25, 1997, AND DIANE R. WILLIAMS AND
CARRIE E. WILLIAMS AS CO-TRUSTEES OF THE JAMES E.
WILLIAMS, JR. GST-EXEMPT ESTATE TAX SHELTERED
TRUST U/A/D 08/13/93 (HEREAFTER THE “WILLIAMS
CLIENTS”) IN CONNECTION WITH THE WILLIAMS CLIENT’S
SALE OF +/- 2,247 ACRES OF REAL PROPERTY IN
IMMOKALEE TO COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND TO
APPROVE AN AMENDMENT TO THE RETENTION
AGREEMENT UPDATING CURRENT HOURLY RATES AND
EXERCISING THE FIRST RENEWAL TERM UNDER THE
AGREEMENT
Item #16K3 (Add-on Item per Change Sheet)
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO MAKE A
SETTLEMENT OFFER OF $15,000, AS A NUISANCE
THRESHOLD FOR LITIGATION STRATEGY PURPOSES, IN
THE MATTER STYLED CANDICE LEE MILLS B. COLLIER
COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, CASE NO.
Page 308 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 300
12-CA-0746, PENDING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16L1
CRA RESOLUTION 2025-113 : A CRA RESOLUTION
APPROVING THE CREATION AND BYLAWS OF THE
IMMOKALEE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT (CRA)
ADVISORY BOARD, AND PARTIALLY REPEALING CRA
RESOLUTION NO. 2001-98, TO REPLACE THE IMMOKALEE
LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD AND THE
IMMOKALEE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE;
AND APPROVE THE CREATION OF THE IMMOKALEE
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD BY THE
BCC. (COMPANION ITEM TO 17.B)
Item #17A
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE JUNE 10, 2025,
BCC MEETING (PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL NOT BE HEARD
UNTIL THE OFFICIAL HEARING). THIS ITEM WAS
PREVIOUSLY CONTINUED FROM THE MAY 13, 2025, BCC
MEETING TO THE MAY 27, 2025, BCC MEETING
RECOMMENDATION TO ADOPT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO
IMPLEMENT THE IMMOKALEE AREA MASTER PLAN
ELEMENT OF THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN, TO
CHANGE THE IMMOKALEE URBAN OVERLAY DISTRICT TO
THE IMMOKALEE URBAN AREA OVERLAY DISTRICT
(IUAOD) ZONING DISTRICT, REVISE, RENAME, AND ADD
SUBDISTRICTS, AND ESTABLISH USES, BOUNDARIES AND
Page 309 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 301
DESIGN STANDARDS. [PL2024004278] (FIRST OF TWO
HEARINGS)
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2025-27: AN ORDINANCE CREATING THE
IMMOKALEE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY
BOARD TO REPLACE THE CRA-CREATED IMMOKALEE
LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD AND THE
IMMOKALEE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
AND REPEAL ORDINANCE NO. 02-52. (COMPANION ITEM TO
16.L.1)
Item #17C
ORDINANCE 2025-28: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY
GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN, SPECIFICALLY AMENDING
THE FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT AND MAP SERIES BY
CHANGING THE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF PROPERTY
FROM URBAN, MIXED-USE DISTRICT, URBAN COASTAL
FRINGE SUBDISTRICT TO URBAN, URBAN-COMMERCIAL
DISTRICT, 951 VEHICLE SUITES COMMERCIAL
SUBDISTRICT, TO ALLOW 135,000 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS
FLOOR AREA OF INDOOR AIR-CONDITIONED VEHICLE
STORAGE INCLUDING AUTOMOBILES, RECREATIONAL
VEHICLES, SWAMP BUGGIES, FOUR WHEELERS AND BOATS
(SIC CODE 4225), AND FURTHERMORE DIRECTING
TRANSMITTAL OF THE ADOPTED AMENDMENT TO THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, PROVIDING FOR
SEVERABILITY AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
Page 310 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 302
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE
OF COLLIER BOULEVARD NORTH OF CHAMPIONSHIP
DRIVE AND 1.5 MILES SOUTH OF TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, IN
SECTION 15, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF ±9.30 ACRES.
(PL20240001700) (COMPANION TO ITEM 17.D)
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2025-29: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NUMBER 2004-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH
ESTABLISHED THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING
REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, BY AMENDING THE
APPROPRIATE ZONING ATLAS MAP OR MAPS BY
CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF THE HEREIN
DESCRIBED REAL PROPERTY FROM THE RURAL
AGRICULTURAL (A) ZONING DISTRICT TO THE
COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT (CPUD) ZONING DISTRICT
FOR A PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS 951 VEHICLE SUITES
CPUD, TO ALLOW THE DEVELOPMENT OF 135,000 SQUARE
FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA OF INDOOR AIR-
CONDITIONED VEHICLE STORAGE INCLUDING
AUTOMOBILES, RECREATIONAL VEHICLES, SWAMP
BUGGIES, FOUR WHEELERS, AND BOATS (SIC CODE 4225)
ON PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD NORTH OF CHAMPIONSHIP DRIVE AND 1.5
MILES SOUTH OF TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, IN SECTION 15,
TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF 9.30± ACRES; AND BY
Page 311 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 303
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. [PL20240001704]
(COMPANION TO ITEM 17.C)
Item #17E
RESOLUTION 2025-114: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
Item #17F
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE JUNE 10, 2025,
BCC MEETING (PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL NOT BE HEARD
UNTIL THE OFFICIAL HEARING). RECOMMENDATION TO
AMEND THE INNOVATION ZONE ORDINANCE TO REMOVE
ANY CAP ON THE TRUST FUND, ALLOW THE BOARD TO
UTILIZE INNOVATION ZONE TRUST FUNDS FOR ANY
PUBLIC PURPOSE DECLARED BY THE BOARD, AND
EXTEND THE AVE MARIA INNOVATION ZONE FOR
ANOTHER 10 YEARS. (2025-1425)
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 5:20 p.m.
Page 312 of 3580
May 27, 2025
Page 304
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND
NOTARY PUBLIC.
Page 313 of 3580