BCC Minutes 05/27/2025 R (Draft)May 27, 2025
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, May 27, 2025
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Burt L. Saunders
Dan Kowal
Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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May 27, 2025
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
May 27, 2025
9:00 AM
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3 – Chair
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4 – Vice Chair
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIR. ADDITIONAL
MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY OTHER
REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE
SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS. SPEAKERS
ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED
BY THE CHAIR. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A CONSENT ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL OF THE DAY’S
CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
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May 27, 2025
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION MUST
SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT
LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE REQUEST
SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE NATURE OF THE
PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE A MATTER ON A
FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A MATTER IN WHICH
THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A
SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIR. SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE
ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIR. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIR’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF
THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, SUITE
1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
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1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation: Pastor Kirt Anderson - Naples Community Church, Pledge of
Allegiance: William Fuller with "We Served" monthly programs at Saint
John the Evangelist to connect with fellow veterans, share experiences, and
learn about VA rules and laws that affect compensation.
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's Regular, Consent, and Summary agenda as amended
(ex-parte disclosure provided by Commission members for Consent agenda.)
B. May 13, 2025, BCC Minutes
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
A) Santiago Ventura- Parks & Recreation
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
A) Lauren Beard - Development Review
B) Mona Vega - Library
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
5) ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
6) RETIREES
7) EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
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5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Staff Presentation on Bear Resistant Containers
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item will be discussed at a future meeting, public comments will not
be heard until the official hearing. This item was previously continued
from the April 8, 2025, May 13, 2025, and May 27, 2025, BCC Meetings.
Recommendation to approve an ordinance of the Board of County
Commissioners amending ordinance 89-05, as amended, the Collier County
Growth Management Plan, specifically amending the Future Land Use
element to amend the NC Square Mixed-Use Overlay to decrease the
commercial uses from 44,400 square feet to 36,500 square feet of gross floor
area, remove the 12,000-square foot daycare use and increase the maximum
residential units from 129 to 205 with affordable housing in the NC Square
Planned Mixed-Use Development, and furthermore directing transmittal of
the adopted Amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce. The
subject property is 24.4± acres and is located at the southwest corner of
Immokalee Road and Catawba Street, approximately 1.6 miles west of
Wilson Boulevard in section 29, township 48 south, range 27 east, Collier
County, Florida. (PL20230017980 - NC Square Mixed-Use Overlay GMPA)
(Companion to Item #9B MPUD-PL20230017979)
B. This item will be discussed at a future meeting, public comments will not
be heard until the official hearing). This item was previously continued
from the April 8, 2025, May 13, 2025, and May 27, 2025, BCC Meetings.
This item requires ex-parte disclosure be provided by the Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve an ordinance
amending Ordinance Number 2021-18, the NC Square Mixed-Use Planned
Unit Development, to decrease the commercial uses from 44,400 square feet
to 36,500 square feet of gross floor area, remove the 12,000-square foot
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daycare use and increase the maximum residential units from 129 to 205
with affordable housing. The property is located at the southwest corner of
Immokalee Road and Catawba Street, approximately 1.6 miles west of
Wilson Boulevard in Section 29, Township 48 South, Range 27 East, Collier
County, Florida, consisting of 24.4± acres; and by providing an effective
date. [Coordinator: Timothy Finn, AICP, Planner III] [PL20230017979]
(Companion to Item #9A PUD-PL20230017980)
C. Recommendation to approve a Resolution proposing an amendment to the
Collier County Growth Management Plan, Ordinance 89-05, as amended,
specifically amending the Future Land Use Element and Future Land Use
Map and map series to change the land use designation from
Agricultural/Rural Designation, Rural Fringe Mixed Use District-Sending
Lands to Agricultural/Rural Designation, Agricultural/Rural Mixed Use
District, 341 Sabal Palm Road Residential Subdistrict to allow up to 423
owner-occupied dwelling units with affordable housing and providing for
transmittal of the amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce. The
subject property is ±169.19 acres and is located on the south side of Sabal
Palm Road, approximately 1.4 miles East of Collier Boulevard in Section
14, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida. (GMPA -
PL20230016340)
D. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance amending the Animal Control
Ordinance by amending the definition of Hobby Breeder and permit
requirements and process.
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. This item to be heard at 1:00 p.m. Recommendation that the Board discuss
whether it wishes to consider an amendment to the Tourist Development Tax
Ordinance No. 2017-53 to impose an additional one percent tax as a high
impact tourism destination for a total six percent tax, and to provide
direction to the County Attorney and Staff to start the process for the
amendment and required referendum.
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. This item to be heard at 9:30 a.m. Recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners review and consider for approval and execution: 1) a
Fourth Amendment to Vacant Land Contract with David Lawrence Mental
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Health Center, Inc., to modify the Collier County Standard Form Long-Term
Lease and include an Operating Agreement exhibit governing Behavioral
Health Center operations; and 2) an Amendment to the Naming Rights
Agreement to clarify use of funds acquired with naming rights. (Ed Finn,
Deputy County Manager)
B. Recommendation to review staff findings of the Board-directed on-site
evaluation of parking capacity for various multifamily developments within
Collier County, provide direction to staff regarding policy on parking
deviations and administrative parking reductions for multifamily projects,
and provide direction on adjusting the adopted parking standards through an
amendment to the Land Development Code. (Michael Bosi, Division
Director - Planning & Zoning)
C. Recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners to consider and
provide direction regarding the Letter of Interest from the Collier County
Agricultural & Fair Exposition Inc., to purchase a portion of the Camp Keais
Property to relocate the Collier County Fairgrounds. (Trinity Scott,
Department Head - Transportation Management Services Department)
D. Recommendation to approve and execute an Agreement for Sale and
Purchase to purchase a 0.53-acre property currently zoned C-4 at a purchase
price of $1.25 million for the future EMS / Fire Station Expansion of Station
21 in East Naples. (John Dunnuck, Executive Director - Facilities &
Redevelopment)
E. Recommendation to accept a presentation on Facilities Management to
include proposed strategies relating to deferred maintenance, space
utilization, public safety, security, and master planning. (John Dunnuck,
Executive Director - Facilities & Redevelopment)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
1) Update on County Compliance with EOG DOGE
2) Update on County Hurricane Season Preparedness
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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16. Consent Agenda - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT & COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
1) This item requires that Commission members provide ex-parte
disclosure. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants
are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve for
recording the minor plat of Goodland Shores, Application Number
PL20240013281.
2) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the sewer utility
facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the sewer facilities
for Citgo Gas Station #184 Improvements, PL20250001019.
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Seven
Shores Phase 2A and 2C, PL20240007049.
4) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Seven
Shores Phase 2B, PL20240011319.
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5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Seven
Shores Phase 1F, PL20240005501.
6) Recommendation to authorize the County Manager, or designee, to
release the Utilities Performance Security (UPS) in the amount of
$32,033.50 to the Project Engineer or Developer’s designated agent
for Altis Santa Barbara, PL20230009204.
7) This item requires that Commission members provide ex-parte
disclosure. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants
are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve for
recording the plat of Anthem Parkway - Phase 5B, (Application
Number PL20220004185), approval of the standard form
Construction and Maintenance Agreement, and approval of the
performance security in the amount of $4,035,840.60.
8) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements and acceptance of the
plat dedications for the final plat of Azure at Hacienda Lakes,
Application Number PL20150002352, and authorize the release of the
maintenance security in the amount of $550,805.24
9) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements and acceptance of the
plat dedications for the final plat of Bella Tesoro an Esplanade
Community – Phase 1, Application Number PL20190001408, and
authorize the release of the maintenance security in the amount of
$743,372.46.
10) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Thrive at Naples, Application
Number PL20160002147, and authorize the release of the
maintenance security in the amount of $80,422.78.
11) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign 1) a
Florida Department of Environmental Protection (“FDEP”) Consent
Order Resolution Offer, 2) an Addendum to Agreement for Sale and
Purchase Indemnifying Collier County, and 3) a Temporary Access
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Easement from Collier County to Cypress Cove Landkeepers, Inc.,
f/k/a Cypress Cove Conservancy, Inc., the contract seller, and its
contractors, to complete required monitoring and replanting, if
required by FDEP, related to a pending property purchaser for the
Conservation Collier Program located in the Dr. Robert H. Gore III
project area.
12) Recommendation to approve the properties on the March and April
2025 Conservation Collier Active Acquisition List (AAL) and direct
staff to pursue the projects recommended within the A-Category,
funded by the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Fund.
13) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase
under the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program with
Cameron Lautz for a 2.27-acre parcel at a cost of $72,640, for a total
cost not to exceed $74,410 inclusive of closing costs.
14) Recommendation to approve the naming of Brewers Landing Preserve
and the Interim Management Plan under the Conservation Collier
Program.
15) Recommendation to approve a Second Amendment to Agreement No.
22-7966, “Baseball and Softball Officials,” with the Collier
Recreation Baseball/Softball Umpire Association, Inc., for a one-year
renewal and a price increase for the remaining renewal terms.
16) Recommendation to accept the donation of two floating docks for use
at Sugden Regional Park with an estimated Fair Market Value of
$40,149 in support of the Parks and Recreation Division’s Water-
Skiing Program from the Freedom Waters Foundation.
17) Recommendation to approve an increase of expenditures from
$50,000 to $100,000 per fiscal year under an exemption from the
competitive process for Collier County Sheriff’s Office’s Agreement
#22-027-NS, Law Enforcement Services, continuing through the final
renewal term’s expiration date of June 18, 2027, and authorization to
terminate Agreement #22-031-NS with the Collier County Sheriff's
Office for Delnor-Wiggins Law Enforcement Special Detail.
18) Recommendation to approve a Resolution authorizing the temporary
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closing of a portion of Veterans Memorial Boulevard and Livingston
Road and determining that the closure is necessary for the ASHER
Full Scale Training on June 4, 2025, to fulfill Collier County’s permit
requirements for temporary events on Collier County property.
19) Recommendation to authorize a Budget Amendment of $1,500,000 for
Domestic Animal Services (DAS) to address increased operational
expenses, including veterinary services, temporary labor, and
necessary equipment and supplies, ensuring continued compliance
with state statutes and industry standards.
20) Recommendation to approve the Naples Zoo, Inc.'s proposed project
for the "Safari Canyon" project to allow the Zoo to move forward with
the proposed improvements.
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve the submittal of grant application for
Community Project Funding (CPF)/Congressionally Directed
Spending (CDS) in the amount of $4,190,000 to assist with the
construction of a new Transit Operations and Maintenance Facility
through the Federal Transit Award Management System (TrAMS),
accept the award, and authorize the necessary Budget Amendments.
2) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the donation of a
drainage easement (Parcel 129DE) required for Willet Avenue
drainage improvements. Estimated Fiscal Impact: $100.
3) Recommendation to approve the Fourth Amendment to the Collier
Metropolitan Planning Organization’s (the “MPO”) Lease Agreement
extending the agreement to June 30, 2028, and increasing the annual
rent and common area maintenance to $13,875, and the Amended and
Restated Staff Services Agreement between the MPO and the Collier
County Board of County Commissioners (the “Board”).
(Transportation Operating Fund 1001)
4) Recommendation to award Request for Proposal No. 24-8226,
“Project Management Services,” to Jacob’s Engineering Group Inc.,
Capital Consulting Solutions, LLC, and Kimley-Horn and Associates,
Inc., on a primary, secondary, and tertiary basis, and authorize the
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Chairman to sign the attached Agreement.
5) Recommendation to approve a Work Order for CSA Ocean Sciences,
Inc., to continue the required post-construction hardbottom
monitoring for the Collier County Beach Nourishment Project in
summer 2025 for time and materials not to exceed $487,367.52
Tourist Development Tax funds under Professional Services
Agreement No. 22-8015, authorize the Chairman to execute the Work
Order, and make a finding that this item promotes tourism (Fund
1105, Project No. 90033).
6) Recommendation to approve the Resolutions authorizing the
Chairman to execute the revised Public Transit Grant Agreement
(PTGA) Section 5310 FPN #448810-1-94-24, and Amendment No. 1
to the Public Transit Grant Agreement Section 5339 FPN #439255-1-
94-23, with the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT), to
accept Federal Transit Administration (FTA) grant funding
modifications, and to authorize the necessary Budget Amendments.
7) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the donation of a
drainage easement (Parcel 117DE2) required for Everglades City
stormwater drainage improvements.
8) Recommendation to approve a Work Order in the amount of
$11,977.00 to Ardaman & Associates, Inc., under the Professional
Services Library Agreement No. 18-7432-TE for Sediment
Compliance Criteria Testing Service for the Park Shore Beach
Renourishment Project, authorize the Chairman to execute the
attached Work Order, and make a finding that this expenditure
promotes tourism. (Fund 1105, Project No. 90067)
9) Recommendation to award Invitation for Qualification No. 24-8225,
“Real Estate Appraisal and Consulting Services,” to RKL Appraisal
and Consulting, PLC, Carroll & Carroll Appraisers & Consultants,
LLC, Maxwell, Hendry & Simmons, LLC, CBRE, Inc, The Urban
Group, Inc., KOVA Appraisal & Consulting Services, LLC d/b/a
Carlson Norris & Associates, and Anderson & Carr, Inc., and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreements.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
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1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, as the ex
officio Governing Board of the Collier County Water-Sewer District,
ratify administratively approved Change Order No. 7 to Agreement
No. 21-7938, with R2T, Inc., for the Master Pump Station 302.00 Site
Improvements project, adding ninety days to the contract time,
approving the use of $14,563.80 of the Owner’s Allowance, and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change order. (Project No.
70215)
2) Recommendation to approve the award of Invitation to Bid No. 24-
8307 to Chemical Injection Partners Florida, LLC, as the Primary
Vendor, and Razorback, LLC, as the Secondary Vendor, for Deep
Injection Well System Preventative Maintenance and Repairs and
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreements.
3) Recommendation that the Board award Request for Professional
Services No. 24-8229 to Jones Edmunds & Associates, Inc., for
Design Services for the Immokalee Recycling Drop-off Center and
Scalehouse & Control Center project, authorizing the attached
Agreement in the amount of $1,136,381 (Project #70232).
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to authorize a Budget Amendment to allow
continuous operation of the State Housing Initiatives Partnership
Program with an anticipated award in the amount of $3,135,160 for
State FY 2025/2026. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053)
2) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign three
(3) Releases of Lien for full payment in the amount of $61,612.03
pursuant to the Agreement for Deferral of 100% of Collier County
Impact Fees for Owner Occupied Affordable Housing Dwellings.
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign two
(2) mortgage satisfactions for the State Housing Initiatives Partnership
loan program in the amount of $54,000.00. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053)
4) Recommendation to approve the submittal and authorize the
Chairman to sign the Grant Eligibility Application for a grant donation
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to support the replacement of carpet at the East Naples Library in the
amount of $25,600.00. (Public Services Grant Fund 1839)
5) Recommendation to authorize two (2) Budget Amendments for
additional Fiscal Year 2023/2024 SHIP program allocation of
$92,466.00 and to recognize $169,333.94 in program income from
Overnight Investment interest and Payoffs for the State Housing
Initiatives Partnership Program Fiscal Year 2024/2025 (SHIP Grant
Fund 1053).
6) Recommendation to adopt (1) a Resolution of the Board of County
Commissioners establishing a Local Disaster Program, and (2) a
Resolution to approve a technical revision to Fiscal Years 2022-2025
and 2025-2028 State Housing Initiatives Partnership Local Housing
Assistance Plan, adding local disaster response grant program
assistance language and clarifying language to the Disaster Assistance
strategy. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053)
7) Recommendation to approve an after-the-fact electronic submittal of
the Fiscal Year 2026 AmeriCorps September 11th National Day of
Service and Remembrance grant continuation application to
AmeriCorps in the amount of $196,561 and allow the County
Manager, or her designee, to serve as the authorized representative for
all administrative reporting and grant submission through the grantor
electronic submission system, e-Grants, throughout the grant period.
(Housing Grant Fund 1835)
8) Recommendation to approve a Second Amendment to extend
Agreement Number 18-7470, “Services for Seniors Program,” with
Summit Home Respiratory Services, Inc., d/b/a Summit Home
Healthcare Products, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
Amendment.
9) Recommendation to approve a Fourth Amendment to extend
Agreement Number 18-7470 “Services for Seniors Program,” with
VIP America of Southwest Florida, LLC, and authorize the Chairman
to sign the attached amendment.
10) Recommendation to approve a Fourth Amendment to extend
Agreement Number 18-7470, “Services for Seniors Program,” with
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May 27, 2025
Maranatha Home Care, Inc., d/b/a A Better Health Care, and authorize
the Chairman to sign the attached amendment
E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to ratify administratively approved Change Order
No. 1 under Agreement No. 23-8096 with Heatherwood Construction
Company, adding 78 days to the Substantial Completion date and
utilizing $214,087.62 of the Owner’s Allowance for Purchase Order
No. 4500229441 on the Pelican Bay New Maintenance Facility
project, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Change
Order. (Project No. 50211)
2) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid No. 25-
8349, “CCSO Jail Buildings J1-J2 Egress Door Alterations,” to
Gemini Properties Group, Inc., in the amount of $276,251.00, approve
an Owner’s Allowance of $10,000.00, and authorize the Chairman to
sign the attached Agreement.
3) Recommendation to approve expenditures with Airbus Helicopters,
Inc., in an amount not to exceed $355,000 per fiscal year for costs
related to: (1) a sole source waiver for HCareSmart Service
Agreement No. 18-7291 in the amount of $110,000 per fiscal year, (2)
a separate sole source waiver for equipment parts, repairs, and
services not covered under the HCareSmart Service Agreement in the
amount of $210,000 per fiscal year, and (3) an exemption for training
related to the County’s air ambulance helicopter in the amount of
$35,000 per fiscal year.
4) Recommendation to approve Amendment No. 20 to the Agreement
with Collier County District School Board for the Driver Education
Program, extending the Driver’s Education funding collected under
the Dori Slosberg Driver Education Ordinance for an additional year.
5) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2024-25 Adopted Budget. (The Budget
Amendments in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and
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May 27, 2025
approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution authorizing execution of
Amendment No. 1 to Public Transportation Grant Agreement (PTGA)
452976-1-94-01, Contract No. G2J23 with the Florida Department of
Transportation to extend the end date of the Agreement for the
Security Enhancements at the Immokalee Regional Airport from June
30, 2025, to June 30, 2026, to provide sufficient time for project
completion.
2) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution authorizing execution of an
Amendment No. 2 to Public Transportation Grant Agreement (PTGA)
450766-1-94-01, Contract No. G2861 with the Florida Department of
Transportation (FDOT) to extend the end date of the Agreement from
June 30, 2025, to December 31, 2025, to provide sufficient time for
project completion.
3) Recommendation to authorize Budget Amendments to reallocate and
transfer capital funds in the amount of $108,815.40 to rehabilitate and
repair the exterior of six fuel storage tanks at the Marco Island
Executive Airport (MKY) to meet Florida Department of
Environmental Protection (FDEP) requirements. (Airport Capital
Fund 4091)
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) Recommendation to authorize the execution of a Budget Amendment
for $479,000 to replace 10 communications consoles for 9-1-1
operations.
2) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements in the amount of
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May 27, 2025
$51,524,215.80 were drawn for the periods between May 1, 2025, and
May 14, 2025, pursuant to Florida Statute 136.06.
3) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of May 21,
2025.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to waive the residency requirement for Nicolas
Fabregas on the Pelican Bay Services Division Board.
2) Recommendation to provide informed written consent waiving any
potential conflict that the Board may have concerning the law firm
Carlton Fields, P.A. (the “Firm”) under the County’s current Retention
Agreement with the Firm concerning its unrelated representation of
Williams Farms Land Assets, LLC, a Florida limited liability
company, Williams Farms of Immokalee, Inc., a Florida corporation,
Diane R. Williams and Carrie E. Williams as Co-Trustee of the James
E. Williams, Jr. Non-Exempt Estate Tax Sheltered Trust u/a/d
08/13/93, Carrie E. Williams and James E. Williams, III as Trustees of
the Williams Family Assets Trust u/a dated April 25, 1997, and Diane
R. Williams and Carrie E. Williams as Co-Trustees of the James E.
Williams, Jr. GST-Exempt Estate Tax Sheltered Trust u/a/d 08/13/93
(hereafter the “Williams Clients”) in connection with the Williams
Client’s sale of +/- 2,247 acres of real property in Immokalee to
Collier County, Florida, and to approve an Amendment to the
Retention Agreement updating current hourly rates and exercising the
first renewal term under the agreement.
L. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency approve a CRA Resolution approving the creation and bylaws
of the Immokalee Community Redevelopment (CRA) Advisory
Board, and partially repealing CRA Resolution No. 2001-98, to
replace the Immokalee Local Redevelopment Advisory Board and the
Immokalee Beautification Advisory Committee; and approve the
creation of the Immokalee Community Redevelopment Advisory
Board by the BCC. (Companion to Item #17B)
Page 17
May 27, 2025
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17. Summary Agenda - This section is for advertised public hearings and must
meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from staff; 2)
Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County Planning
Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present and voting;
3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the Collier
County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the Board, prior
to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items are scheduled to
be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in opposition to the
item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all participants must
be sworn in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A. This item has been continued to the June 10, 2025, BCC Meeting, public
comments will not be heard until the official hearing. This item was
previously continued from the May 13, 2025, BCC Meeting to the May
27, 2025, BCC Meeting. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance amending
the Collier County Land Development Code to implement the Immokalee
Area Master Plan Element of the Growth Management Plan, to change the
Immokalee Urban Overlay District to the Immokalee Urban Area Overlay
District (IUAOD) Zoning District, revise, rename, and add subdistricts, and
establish uses, boundaries and design standards. [PL2024004278] (First of
two hearings)
B. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopt an
Ordinance creating the Immokalee Community Redevelopment Advisory
Board to replace the CRA-created Immokalee Local Redevelopment
Advisory Board and the Immokalee Beautification Advisory Committee and
repeal Ordinance No. 22 22-52 (Per County Attorney’s Office). (Companion
to Item #16L1)
C. Recommendation to approve an ordinance amending Ordinance 89-05, as
amended, The Collier County Growth Management Plan, specifically
amending the Future Land Use Element and map series by changing the land
use designation of property from Urban, Mixed-Use District, Urban Coastal
Fringe Subdistrict to Urban, Urban-Commercial District, 951 Vehicle Suites
Commercial Subdistrict, To allow 135,000 square feet of gross floor area of
indoor air-conditioned vehicle storage including automobiles, recreational
vehicles, swamp buggies, four wheelers and boats (Sic Code 4225), and
furthermore directing transmittal of the adopted amendment to The Florida
Page 18
May 27, 2025
Department of Commerce, providing for severability and providing for an
effective date. The subject property is located on the west side of Collier
Boulevard north of Championship Drive and 1.5 miles south of Tamiami
Trail East, in Section 15, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, Collier County,
Florida, consisting of ±9.30 acres. (PL20240001700) (Companion to Item
#17D)
D. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance amending Ordinance Number
2004-41, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, which
established the Comprehensive Zoning Regulations for the unincorporated
area of Collier County, Florida, by amending the appropriate Zoning Atlas
Map or Maps by changing the zoning classification of the herein described
real property from the Rural Agricultural (A) zoning district to the
Commercial Planned Unit (CPUD) zoning district for a project to be known
as 951 Vehicle Suites CPUD, to allow the development of 135,000 square
feet of gross floor area of indoor air-conditioned Vehicle Storage including
automobiles, recreational vehicles, swamp buggies, four wheelers, and boats
(SIC Code 4225) on property located on the west side of Collier Boulevard
north of Championship Drive and 1.5 miles south of Tamiami Trail East, in
Section 15, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida,
consisting of 9.30± acres; and by providing an effective date.
[PL20240001704] (Companion to Item #17C)
E. Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the
Fiscal Year 2024-25 Adopted Budget. (The Budget Amendments in the
attached Resolution have been reviewed and approved by the Board of
County Commissioners via separate Executive Summaries.)
F. This item has been continued to the June 10, 2025, BCC Meeting, public
comments will not be heard until the official hearing. Recommendation to
amend the Innovation Zone Ordinance to remove any cap on the trust fund,
allow the Board to utilize Innovation Zone Trust funds for any public
purpose declared by the Board, and extend the Ave Maria Innovation Zone
for another 10 years.
18. Adjourn
Inquiries concerning changes to the Board’s Agenda should be made to the County
Manager’s Office at 252-8383.
May 27, 2025
Page 2
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Good morning. Welcome to our County Commission meeting.
As we get started, I do want to mention, too, there are some
folks here for the NC Square project. That's going to be continued.
So I don't know if you knew that, but that will be continued, so I
wanted to let you know.
Well, let's get started in the right way. We have Pastor Curt
Anderson. It's always a pleasure seeing you here, and help us get
started in the right way, sir.
Item #1A
INVOCATION: PASTOR KIRT ANDERSON - NAPLES
COMMUNITY CHURCH, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: WILLIAM
FULLER WITH "WE SERVED" MONTHLY PROGRAMS AT
SAINT JOHN THE EVANGELIST TO CONNECT WITH FELLOW
VETERANS, SHARE EXPERIENCES, AND LEARN ABOUT VA
RULES AND LAWS THAT AFFECT COMPENSATION -
INVOCATION GIVEN; PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED
PASTOR ANDERSON: So just a moment of personal
privilege. These people work so hard, and they never get credit, but
they will always get the blame. And today they've got an issue of
both mental health and a bar. They need our help and prayers to
navigate such difficult issues. But one thing is clear, when the people
go north, it's like all of our problems disappear. How nice that is.
Let's bow together. Our gracious God, grateful as we are for the
privilege of living here, we seek your strength and guidance that this
body, given their stewardship over right government and
development, may continue to strike that delicate balance allowing
May 27, 2025
Page 3
for growth without clogging the arteries of our infrastructure.
It's tough for so many who can't afford to live where they work,
especially our law enforcement, first responders, educators, wait
staff, gardeners, we all share the challenge that you've set before us to
attend to the least of our brothers and sisters, and in all ways, we seek
the welfare of the community. Empower these servants and the high
calling to which they've been called. We ask this in the name of your
incarnate love. Amen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have the Pledge of Allegiance
this morning with Mr. William Fuller. And I've asked Mr. Fuller,
after the Pledge, to tell us a little bit about himself and some things
that he's involved in that's serving veterans.
Mr. Fuller.
MR. FULLER: Good morning, everyone. My name is Bill
Fuller, and I am a Vietnam veteran. May I ask you all to join me in
the Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And as you approach the podium, I
want to thank you for your service, and what is usually appropriate to
say, welcome back.
MR. FULLER: Thank you, sir.
Commissioners, guests, I thank you for having me lead the
Pledge of Allegiance this morning. I run a veterans group at St. John
the Evangelist catholic church under the Knights of Columbus. I
label the meetings "You don't know what you don't know."
I bring veterans in from all over the county, and even when the
snowbirds come down they take advantage of the meeting or the
meetings. They walk in, they walk out shaking their heads. As we
all know, as at least the veterans know, the VA is very convoluted.
They're broken into three parts, and they don't talk to each other.
It's my job, hopefully, to get more information to the veterans so
May 27, 2025
Page 4
they can receive the compensation and the care that they actually
need. It's an ever ongoing task to do that, but it's very important to
me and for all those who are in the military.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT, AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX-PARTE DISCLOSURE
PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT
AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL -
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Agenda changes for May 27th,
2025. First, we have an add-on item. 16K3 is a recommendation to
authorize the County Attorney to make a settlement offer of $15,000
as a nuisance threshold for litigation strategy purposes in the matter
styled Candice Lee Mills versus Collier County Board of County
Commissioners, Case No. 23-CA-0746, pending in the Circuit Court
of Collier County, Florida. This is being added at staff's request.
We do have a couple of agenda notes. First, the title for Item
17F should indicate that it's continued until the June 24th, 2025, BCC
meeting.
And the resolution for Item 16A18 was inadvertently omitted
from the initial agenda publication and was added the following day.
We do have two time-certain items. The first is 11A to be heard
at 9:30 a.m. This is consideration of the fourth amendment to the
May 27, 2025
Page 5
land contract and naming rights agreement with David Lawrence
Center Mental Health Center, Inc., for Behavioral Health Center
operations and funding use.
The second is Item 10A to be heard at 1 p.m., which is a
discussion to consider amending the Tourist Development Tax
ordinance to increase the rate and initiate the referendum process.
We have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and again at
2:50, if necessary.
And as the Chair noted, the Item 9A and 9B, which are the NC
Square items, were continued. There is a -- and I was going to bring
this up at the end of the meeting, but perhaps now is the right time.
There's been a request by the applicant to hear this item on June 24th.
That's outside of what we typically hear due to the large volume of
public objection; however, because we're in an unusual circumstance
with this one, which it got started and then stopped and has been
continued, I wanted to discuss this with the Board as far as your -- if
you're okay with it being heard on June 24th or if you prefer for it to
be continued to the fall.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We'll see if there's any
effort in that regard.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm probably going to be abroad
somewhere in Europe --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- traveling on that day.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. So advise the
petitioner that there's likely to be at least one board member not here.
I don't know if you'll be able to participate by phone. But regardless
of that, the petitioner does have the right to have a full board, and so
this would then -- if it's not heard in June, it would be put off until
September?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, September.
May 27, 2025
Page 6
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other changes?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. If we could get -- County Attorney,
do you have any further changes?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He didn't even ask me.
MR. KLATZKOW: No, ma'am, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, that's true. I figured that
you'd either push the button or you'd speak up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no, no. And you're
absolutely correct, and I'm totally fine. If Commissioner Kowal can
participate by phone, then we have a full board. If not, then manage
it accordingly. I'm fine with hearing it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Me, too.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The weight is on your shoulders.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, as I said, reach out to the
petitioner, and let's see what their petition is.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then we can discuss whether
or not we have that opportunity.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We'll schedule it accordingly
once we've spoken with the applicant. With that, we need ex parte on
the summary and consent and any further changes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No changes, and I have nothing
on the consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. I
have no changes and no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Same.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner LoCastro.
May 27, 2025
Page 7
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same for me; no changes, no
ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I have no changes and no ex
parte as well. I will say at the outset, we do have the hobby breeder's
ordinance on the agenda. It's Item 9D. I do want to get into a
discussion of it, but it's my -- it's going to be my request to continue
that so we can make sure that we get that ordinance in the right
format. But there may be some people that want to discuss that. So
I'm going to ask that that be heard but with the understanding that I
am going to ask for it to be continued.
All right. Then we need a motion to approve the agenda as
amended.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a
second. Seeing no discussion, all those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passed unanimously.
*****
SEE REVERSE SIDE
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
May 27, 2025
Add on Item 16.K.3: Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to make a settlement offer of $15,000, as
a nuisance threshold for litigation strategy purposes, in the matter styled Candice Lee Mills v. Collier County Board
of County Commissioners, Case No. 23-CA-0746, pending in the Circuit Court of Collier County, Florida. (Staff’s
Request)
Notes:
•The title for Item 17F should indicate that it is continued until the June 24, 2025, BCC Meeting.”
•The Resolution for Item 16A18 was inadvertently omitted from the initial agenda publication and was
added the following day.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 11A to be heard at 9:30 AM: Consideration of the fourth amendment to the Land Contract and Naming
Rights Agreement with David Lawrence Mental Health Center, Inc., for Behavioral Health Center Operations and
Funding Use.
Item 10A to be heard at 1:00 PM: Discussion to consider amending the Tourist Development Tax Ordinance to
increase the rate and initiate the referendum process.
5/23/2025 8:03 PM
May 27, 2025
Page 8
Item #2B
MAY 13, 2025, BCC MINUTES - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL – APPROVED
The approval of the minutes, May 13, 2025. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, is there a motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Move to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Motion and second. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Item #3A1
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 3,
awards and recognitions.
First up we have 3A1, our 20-year attendees. Santiago Ventura,
Parks and Recreation. Congratulations.
May 27, 2025
Page 9
(Applause.)
MR. VENTURA: Thank you, all.
THE PHOTOGRAPHER: Santiago, do you want to stand right
in the middle.
MR. VENTURA: Thank you, everybody.
(Applause.)
Item #3A2
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Next up, we have our 25-year attendees.
First, Lauren Beard, Development Review. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Twenty-five years, Mona Vega, Libraries.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
Item #5A
STAFF PRESENTATION ON BEAR RESISTANT CONTAINERS –
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I believe we have enough
time to take Item 5A, which is a staff presentation on bear-resistant
containers, before we get to our 9:30 time-certain. And Ms. Kari
Hodgson, your director of Solid Waste -- Solid and Hazardous Waste,
is on her way up to present.
MS. HODGSON: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Kari Hodgson, your director of Solid Waste. I have prepared
a very brief presentation for you or, at your liberty, I can take any
May 27, 2025
Page 10
questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, why don't you go ahead with
the presentation. We do have plenty of time.
MS. HODGSON: Sure. All right.
Ordinance 2019-36 permits customers to purchase and own
county-approved bear-resistant containers. What you see here is a
heat map of who has purchased bear containers and where they exist
in Collier County.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go back to that map real
quick.
MS. HODGSON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're flipping along here.
We barely had a -- now, this is a heat map of where the bears are
active?
MS. HODGSON: This is a heat map of where people live who
have purchased bear-resistant containers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. Okay.
MS. HODGSON: The county-approved bear containers, our
customers have two options for obtaining them. One is that they can
purchase bear-resistant containers through our two haulers, Waste
Pro and Waste Management. They cost about $377. It does -- the
price does fluctuate based on the market. That's their cost right now,
and so it's at cost plus a delivery fee.
The second option for our customers for having bear-resistant
garbage containers is that they can modify their existing green top.
What's really important for this is that our customers unsecure the top
before garbage collection. With that being said, we have available in
our website instructions from WFC in PDF form and video form for
customers to be able to make that modification to their existing
container.
To see how easy or difficult this is and how much it costs, I
May 27, 2025
Page 11
went this weekend to my local hardware store, and for $33.18. I
purchased the supplies listed here to make my own bear-resistant
container. And it took me about 15 minutes sons [sic] drilling the
holes in my garbage container. So I can happily give a demonstration
to anyone that might need. I have not tested this. This is, again,
FWC recommendation to minimize the human and bear conflicts.
And lastly, on our website, in collaboration with Florida Fish
and Wildlife Commission, we have a bear wise and bear cart section
that has a link to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission's website
along with those PDF instructions and video instructions for making
your garbage container bear proof to help reduce any bear/human
conflicts, and there's other tips and tricks on there from their website.
And with that, I'm available for any questions that you might
have.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Have we, to your knowledge -- I have a couple of questions.
MS. HODGSON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have we, to your knowledge,
begun any kind of a population estimation of our bear population and
its dispersal?
MS. HODGSON: I would defer to Florida Fish and Wildlife
Commission for any type of bear tracking. We just track the garbage
containers, and, also, we send out surveys to our customers to see
their satisfaction with the customers and if they've noticed any
minimization in the bear interactions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I would, at some stage,
like to see that. I actually had an opportunity to speak on the radio
this morning. There was some -- there was a bear sighting in Fort
Myers in a downtown area in a fairly urban area. And I called in on
the radio show and spoke about this presentation today about the
May 27, 2025
Page 12
necessity for education and why we're doing what we're doing here.
The other side of that equation is growth, population growth,
both human and our four-legged friends. And the commingling of
those two don't always happen and -- or don't always happen well, I
should say. Certainly with that fellow that lost his life last month.
My second question that I have for you is there was a time when
FWC put out grant money to help offset the increase and the cost for
the bear-resistant containers. Can you talk a little bit about that?
MS. HODGSON: Sure. So that's actually how the heat map
was established. Back in 2018, I believe, is when the Board of
County Commissioners at that time approved the county staff to work
on a grant to obtain bear-resistant garbage containers, and after being
awarded that grant, about -- a little less than 500 were sold.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are there any funds available
for folks that would like to participate in that?
MS. HODGSON: At this time we do not have any grant funds
that remain from that project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And the other question
I had there was, are the apparatus on our disposal trucks set up to be
able to handle those containers?
MS. HODGSON: Yeah, that's a great question. So along with
our automated curbside service, that's why they have to be county
approved. We have to make sure that if somebody wants a brand of
container, that it's been tested with our garbage trucks to make sure
that the automation arm will still work, because that's part -- all built
into our prices for our level of services.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And do we have anybody that
can offer advice for someone who's looking to better protect their
solid waste disposal processes? Do we have people that will come
and visit with folks and talk to them about where they can put their
refuge and -- refuse -- not refuge but refuse -- to properly store it?
May 27, 2025
Page 13
MS. HODGSON: Sure. So as mentioned on our website,
there's links to Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission as well as the
instructions for modifying your existing container, and -- yeah, this
was a fun weekend project.
And so we also, in collaboration with FWC, go out to
communities and give presentations, and we do those multiple times
a year, usually at the request of the homeowners association or the
community. So from our interaction with Florida Fish and Wildlife,
they've been very approachable and collaborative with us in working
on educating the public, and again, our website also has these links.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I would like to recommend
that all of us take this issue up. No one is -- no one is oblivious to the
bear population no matter where or what district you're, in fact, in.
So I would like for us -- over a period of time for all of us to
engage with the agencies, both our Solid Waste and FWC, to better
educate our population as to how to best protect yourself, your
family, and not -- and reduce those inevitable negative conflicts that
come about.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, you -- our staff will
periodically issue press releases and then just reports on staff
activities. So that would be a good way to at least get the word out to
folks that would be interested in looking at our web page or receiving
information from the manager's office. It's a good idea, but that
would be a good start.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We'll work with Mr. Mullins to
put some information out as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perfect.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
Kari, I saw something on social media over the last couple days.
There was some chatter from some citizens saying that their garbage
May 27, 2025
Page 14
cans were being stolen, and then somebody chimed in said, "Oh,
there's a market out on the black market of people that come by at
2 o'clock in the morning and steal garbage cans and then sell them
somewhere."
Do we have a fair amount of our -- of these cans being pilfered,
either the recycling ones or the green ones, and we're replacing a lot
of them because citizens are saying they were, you know, stolen?
I mean, there was significant discussion. It was on one of the
social media pages. And I didn't comment because I didn't have the
details if it was, you know, urban legend or true, but I thought you
would know.
MS. HODGSON: Are you specifically referring to the
bear-resistant containers?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No, no, just garbage cans in
general, and then somebody chimed in and said, oh, there's -- you
can -- if you want extra bins, like not to put out in front of your
house, but maybe they're nice for storage in your garage or
something, and you want to buy those, that there's people that list
those on Craig's List, or they have some underground -- they said
there's a market for them. But we would know. Are we getting a lot
of reports of cans disappearing and being -- like, I know that we
replace broken cans all the time, but do we get a fair amount of
reports that say, "I put my cans out on the curb, and they're missing"?
MS. HODGSON: It happens from time to time. We meet with
Waste Management and Waste Pro, our local garbage haulers, and we
go over these kind of statistics on a monthly meeting if we're seeing a
spike in stolen containers.
The bear-resistant containers in particular, because they're so
expensive, we do have concerns of those being stolen; however, they
are marked with serial numbers and can be reported as stolen,
because we also have them, as you see, registered to an owner.
May 27, 2025
Page 15
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But as far as -- so since the
meetings that you have, there might be some onesie, twosies, but we
don't have some massive disappearance of garbage cans, whether
they're bear-resistant or regular, throughout the county? That's not
something you're seeing a large spike in?
MS. HODGSON: Not that I'm aware of.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Kari, is this presentation coming to us because we've seen an
increase in bears getting into the trash so we're trying to be, you
know, reactive, or we're trying to -- or are we trying to be proactive
and keep that from happening more and more?
MS. HODGSON: Yeah. So we were requested to give an
update on the status of bear-resistant containers. Again, there was a
grant that was awarded in 2018, so I'm not sure if that was the nexus
behind the request. But it, again, raises the public awareness to what
resources are available to our customers.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Are we seeing an increase or --
MS. HODGSON: I'm sorry. We have not seen increases.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Quick question, I was -- because I know in the past we've had
incidents where -- some of our apartment complexes where they have
the dumpster sites and, you know -- and over time, that the bears
seem they really know where those locations are. It's like a buffet.
It's like going to the buffet going to dumpsters sites.
I know these are -- you're particularly talking about, you know,
individual citizens with these cans. Have we -- have we addressed
May 27, 2025
Page 16
that and like having these new -- when they build a new facility or
build a new property that has these dumpster sites, are they taking
precautions too?
MS. HODGSON: Commercial customers can always have
bear-resistant containers. There's an extra charge a month because
there's just a -- they have to reinforce the lid. So that's available to all
of our commercial customers to obtain a bear-resistant lid for their
commercial dumpster.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have any registered
speakers, Troy?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. Just a presentation.
MR. MILLER: It's a pres- -- no, we do not.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, we have about eight
minutes. Anything that we can take up that would be very quick?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We have -- do we have any public
comment, Troy, for Item 7?
MR. MILLER: One registered speaker for Item 7. That is
Christine Briggs.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, Ms. Briggs.
MS. BRIGGS: I was -- I'm sorry, I was registered for public
comment, Number 9 --
MR. MILLER: Yeah. You registered for that and for general
public comment. So we'll strike that then.
MS. BRIGGS: -- not this one. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
That was a good try, Ms. Patterson. Anything else?
Item #11C
PROVIDE DIRECTION REGARDING THE LETTER OF
May 27, 2025
Page 17
INTEREST FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY AGRICULTURAL &
FAIR EXPOSITION INC., TO PURCHASE A PORTION OF THE
CAMP KEAIS PROPERTY TO RELOCATE THE COLLIER
COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS. (TRINITY SCOTT, DEPARTMENT
HEAD - TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT SERVICES
DEPARTMENT) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS -
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we could quickly take
Item 11C. This is relative to the interest from the fair board in
buying a portion of Camp Keais. I think this one could go quickly.
Item 11C is a recommendation to the Board of County
Commissioners to consider and provide direction regarding the letter
of interest from the Collier County Agricultural and Fair Exposition,
Inc., to purchase a portion of the Camp Keais property to relocate the
Collier County Fairgrounds. Trinity Scott, your department head for
Transportation Management Services department, is here to present
or answer questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, this is not -- this is not for
final decision. This is just for our information and for direction to
staff; is that correct?
MS. SCOTT: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MS. SCOTT: And I'm going to try to pull up my presentation
here really quick. Okay. There it goes.
So today --
MS. PATTERSON: Sorry.
MS. SCOTT: That's okay. Amy threw me off this morning.
Glad I had my coffee.
So today we are here to talk about the fair board has sent a letter
May 27, 2025
Page 18
to the county with interest to purchase 100 plus or minus acres of the
Camp Keais property for relocation of the fairgrounds. The subject
property is noted in red on this slide with a little bit closer-in aerial.
The Camp Keais property was purchased by the county back in
March of 2021. It is just over a thousand acres, and at the time when
it was presented to the Board, potential property uses included
fairgrounds, parks and recreation, debris management sites,
workforce housing.
The board -- I'm sorry. The fair board submitted a letter back in
May of 2024 with its initial letter of interest, and in January of 2025,
they issued a supplemental letter of interest with a request to
purchase 100 plus-or-minus acres of developable acres with access to
Oil Well Road.
They provided a tentative list of uses that were similar to their
existing facility at the fairgrounds, but they also wanted the ability to
host community events such as concerts and arts and craft shows and
also have passive recreation facilities.
Last year, in August of 2024, the Board also heard a proposal
from Barron Collier Companies asking to exchange approximately
439 acres of the Camp Keais property for an equal value of property
at Silver Strand. We are currently working with Barron Collier
Companies to bring an item back to the Board on that. But from this
aerial, you see that we have lots of acreage left to be able to
effectuate the sales and purchase agreement with the fair board,
notwithstanding what would potentially be encumbered by the swap
property.
So the fair board is currently leasing in its existing location, and
their lease expires in 2037. The fair board would prefer to own the
property rather than lease because it would make them eligible for a
wider range of funding opportunities, such as grants and other
programs they are tied to capital investment.
May 27, 2025
Page 19
The initial purchase price for the Camp Keais property was just
over $13,000 an acre. This was also -- the acquisition was financed,
so the county has incurred some interest costs since the purchase.
And based on the swap discussions that we've had with the Barron
Collier Companies, we have completed two appraisals on the
property. They were dated January of 2025, and the market value at
that time was $20,250 per acre.
So our recommendation today is we're asking the Board to direct
County Manager or designee to move forward with the fair board to
develop a purchase and sales agreement to be presented at a future
meeting for a portion of the Camp Keais property and also provide
direction on the purchase price per acre for the fair board.
And under Florida Statutes, the county may sell to a non-profit
organization at a nominal price, but if the Board desires to sell at less
than market value, which is the $20,250 per acre, we would
recommend direction to include a reverter provision and deed
restriction on the property, and those specific terms would come back
to the Board with a purchase and sales agreement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. In an effort to move
forward, I've been working on this for eight years, since I became a
commissioner, working with the fair board, working with our
previous staff, negotiating the purchase of this thousand acres.
If you go to the map of that thousand acres -- you had it right
there. The Camp Keais piece is the property that we currently own.
The pink/green hashed area is the land that we're discussing with
Barron Collier to do the exchange.
Don't get all encumbered on the exchange and the provisions,
because the details of that exchange are still in process of being
worked out.
On the bottom left-hand side, which would be southwest corner,
May 27, 2025
Page 20
right there, in that -- in that area is the proposition to relocate the
Collier County Fair and the Swamp Buggy and the Sheriff's Youth
Ranch that's currently next to the Swamp Buggy. Those other two
agreements, the Swamp Buggy and the Sheriff's Youth Ranch, are in
the works. They're not even ready to be discussed right now.
We are ready to move forward with the Collier County Fair. I
have always represented to the fair board from the beginning that we
would sell them this land for what the county paid for it, plus interest,
if we have to finance it. The goal here is to get taxpayers' money
back.
Commissioner LoCastro regularly speaks, it's not our money.
It's the taxpayers' money. And so in order to ensure that we do that
equitably, we would enter into an agreement with them to sell them
approximately 100 acres there.
I did receive direction or authority, if you will, from AMU, the
Ave Maria Utility. They are welcoming the extension of utilities to
that site, which will enhance the usability for everybody, including
us.
So it would be my recommendation that we go forward with this
transaction at our cost, plus interest, negotiate a contract with them,
and go forward with that arrangement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't want to slow this down, but
we're rushing a decision here. What I'd like to consider -- just
consider, let's keep this on the regular agenda. Let's get back to the
David Lawrence Center at 9:30 and come back to this, because
there's some policy issues here, and I don't want us to just rush it
because we've got another item. Is that okay with the Board?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure. Fine with me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, let's hold off on
this, because there are some serious policy issues there that I think we
need to discuss.
May 27, 2025
Page 21
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I don't want to do that in a
rushed manner. So let's move on to the David Lawrence Center, and
then we'll come back to this.
Item #11A
EXECUTION: 1) A FOURTH AMENDMENT TO VACANT
LAND CONTRACT WITH DAVID LAWRENCE MENTAL
HEALTH CENTER, INC., TO MODIFY THE COLLIER COUNTY
STANDARD FORM LONG-TERM LEASE AND INCLUDE AN
OPERATING AGREEMENT EXHIBIT GOVERNING
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CENTER OPERATIONS; AND 2) AN
AMENDMENT TO THE NAMING RIGHTS AGREEMENT TO
CLARIFY USE OF FUNDS ACQUIRED WITH NAMING RIGHTS
(ED FINN, DEPUTY COUNTY MANAGER) - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS
WITHDREW HIS SECOND) MOTION FAILED DUE TO LACK
OF A SECOND; MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE JUNE 10 TH
BCC MEETING BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that does bring us to our
9:30 time-certain. Item 11A is a recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners review and consider for approval and
execution, one, a fourth amendment to vacant land contract with
David Lawrence Mental Health Center, Inc., to modify the Collier
County standard form long-term lease and include an operating
agreement exhibit governing Behavioral Health Center operations
and, two, an amendment to the naming rights agreement to clarify use
May 27, 2025
Page 22
of funds acquired with naming rights.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manager, will begin the
presentation.
MR. FINN: Thank you, Ms. Patterson. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman, members of the Board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. FINN: Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager.
As County Manager Patterson just noted, our objective today is
to consider amendments to the various agreements with David
Lawrence Center governing the Behavioral Health Center to be
constructed near the existing campus -- David Lawrence Center
campus on Golden Gate Parkway.
Sally Ashkar from the County Attorney's Office and Kristi
Sonntag with your community -- Community and Human Services
department have worked diligently on this contract and will be
available to answer questions.
If it pleases the Chair, Mr. Morton, the DLC board chairman,
and Mr. Burgess would also like to be part of this presentation.
With that, the Behavioral Health Center is a surtax funded
community priority project, voter endorsed in 2018. It was identified
as a priority project in the five-year strategic plan identified by the
Mental Health Addiction Advisory Committee. The Behavioral
Health Center will serve as a central receiving facility for individuals
requiring services under the Baker and Marchman Acts.
This slide simply identifies the Behavioral Health Center's
planning and construction teams as well as some of the key
stakeholders of the Mental Health and Addiction Advisory
Committee.
Project location. Project is located on the north side of Golden
Gate Parkway, one parcel to the east of the existing David Lawrence
Center campus in the Golden Gate Parkway institutional subdistrict.
May 27, 2025
Page 23
A quick view. This is a -- this is a rendering looking from the
northwest with Golden Gate Parkway towards the top of the -- top of
the slide.
Timeline of the contracts we're considering today. The original
vacant land contract and form lease initially was approved in
2001 -- 2021 -- I wish it was 2001. We might be done with it -- and
has moved forward since. I can recall the last time the Board was
presented with this, I think Mr. Dunnuck pointed out that this has
been before the Board I believe he said 17 times. This would be
another time, and Mr. Dunnuck was not counting the trips to the
surtax committee when he made that comment.
Our objective today is to review and consider for approval the
fourth amendment to the vacant land contract with David Lawrence
Mental Health Center, to update the long-term lease, add an
appropriate operating agreement, and approve an amendment to the
naming rights agreement to clarify the use of naming rights funds.
Vacant land contract lease updates clarifies the name. The
facility will operate as a -- as the -- which is the central receiving
facility, and will be known as the Behavioral Health Center, the
Collier County Behavioral Health Center. It adds default language to
tie it to the operating agreement, clarifies the maintenance
responsibility. Specifically, it talks about the expected useful life so
that it's clear our responsibility is replacement at that point in time,
and it adjusts the insurance requirements as well.
The fourth amendment terms of the operating agreement or on
the operating attachment to the lease, statement of work identifies the
facility will be used as a central receiving facility under Baker and
Marchman Acts or other criteria as defined by Florida Statute; details
the operating hours of the facility; number of beds; type of services
rendered; compliance with the existing agreements and guidelines;
emphasizes the furniture, fixture, and equipment shall be the
May 27, 2025
Page 24
responsibility of the David Lawrence Center for the life of the lease,
including the original acquisition; also provides some clarification on
some not-so-clear meaning of furniture, fixture, and equipment to
include security video systems, cameras, artwork, and medical
equipment; provides an appropriate definition of licensure and
accreditation for -- that David Lawrence Center is responsible for.
There are three -- there are three sheets dealing with the
operating agreement.
Collaboration, mostly that provides for the David Lawrence
Center to make changes or proposed changes to the County Manager
or designee governing exactly what the facility will be used for. The
intent there is to be able to make adjustments to the services being
provided consistent with changes in practices.
Performance measures and penalties are included in the
agreement.
Funding. Funding states the county is not responsible for
operational funding beyond a baseline funding that's essentially being
currently provided. The options the Board has and the options David
Lawrence Center have are identified in the agreement. David
Lawrence Center may request the Board to make up for deficits if
they exist. The Board then has the option to either agree to fund or to
agree to a reduction in the level of service, and in the event that an
agreement isn't reached, the -- that is a terminable event.
So the Board has the option to review, David Lawrence Center
has the option to request, and the decision is the Board's on exactly
what's done with additional funding.
Administrative provisions deals with the quality of staffing,
incident reports, records review, safety and security, signage, and
compliance with laws.
Termination. We'll get into the termination perhaps in a little
more detail here. If the Board doesn't agree to change the standards
May 27, 2025
Page 25
in the operating agreement based on that three-year review, either
party at that point may terminate the lease. So that deals with
the -- with changes in the use of the facility to meet current standards.
If there was a deficit in funding, the Board declines to make
adjustments to the level of service and denies funding, either party
may terminate the lease.
Should the lease be terminated, David Lawrence Center will
have the ability to purchase the facility for the greater of fair market
value or the cost of construction.
If DLC fails to exercise its option to purchase, the county retains
the land and the facility. There's no termination right for failure to
meet performance measures in the operating agreement, rather that
triggers penalty provisions and the corrective action plan
requirement. The lease itself does not contain any termination rights
outside of standard default provisions.
Naming rights. The naming rights amendment includes new
terms regarding the use of naming rights, proceeds, and reporting,
specifically requires funding of furniture, fixtures, and equipment.
Excess proceeds generated through naming rights must be used solely
for operational expenses for the facility over the term of the lease,
provide some supplemental annual reporting, and a requirement to
maintain complete and accurate records to support the requirement,
the reporting, and make the records available for inspection.
The recommendation: If the Board wishes to proceed with the
construction of this facility and follow -- the following actions are
required: Approve and execute a fourth amendment to the vacant
land contract with David Lawrence to modify the county standard
form long-term lease and include an operating agreement exhibit and
approve and execute an amendment to the naming rights agreement
clarifying use of funds required with naming rights.
If it pleases the Chair, perhaps we could hear from Mr. Morton
May 27, 2025
Page 26
and Mr. Burgess.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's see if there are any questions
from the Commission before we turn to the general public comment.
Any questions at this point in time?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I do have -- I do have one that may
require Mr. Ashkar to help us out here. If there is a termination of
the lease, for whatever reason, what happens? I understand that there
are some options here, but in reality, what are the options and what
happens?
MS. ASHKAR: Yes. Good morning, Commissioners. Sally
Ashkar, Assistant County Attorney, for the record.
If the lease is terminated under the two terminable events or in
the event of a default, as Mr. Finn stated this morning, then what
would happen is DLC would have six months to purchase the facility
at the greater of the fair market value of the facility or the tax dollar
expenditure for the construction of the facility. So they have six
months to make that election. If they fail to make that election or
they determine they don't want to purchase the facility, then the
facility remains in the county's hands as well as the land that it lies on
remains ours as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other -- any other
questions before we move to some public comment?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Not yet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's move to the other principals
here.
MR. BURGESS: I might need a little help trying to get the
slides up.
Troy, it's in the folder under the iDrive. That's it. Thank you
very much.
May 27, 2025
Page 27
Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you for allowing us to
be here to provide some additional information. We were going to
start our presentation off with some comments from our chairman of
the board, Edward Morton.
MR. MORTON: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning.
MR. MORTON: For those of you who don't know me, my
name is Edward Morton. I'm very familiar with most of the
commissioners. Many of you may recall for 35 years I served this
community as the CFO then the CEO of the NCH Healthcare system.
I retired from NCH about 15, 16 years ago, and I took over as a
partner in a financial firm that manages billions of dollars in
municipal bond and corporate bond interests around the country. A
large percentage of that is healthcare related. At the same time, I
joined a private equity group, and part of my responsibilities are the
evaluation of healthcare facilities around the country for purchase
and holding, I might add. That's my background.
I'm here today to talk about David Lawrence, our community,
and a working relationship with the County Commission over many,
many years. We have struggled together, and together we have
improved the mental health picture for Collier County in a variety of
ways.
The most demonstrable way that we have done that, for those of
you that have been with the Commission for a number of years, if we
go back about seven years, the jail population was somewhere around
1,100, 1,150. The jail population today is about 750. So despite the
fantastic growth of our community, we have lowered the jail
population significantly, and that has to do with the cooperation
between the county, the Sheriff's Office, the mental health courts, the
veterans services groups that have all contributed to bringing down
the need for people to be incarcerated, and together we can, I think,
May 27, 2025
Page 28
hold our head up very high for the dignity which we have provided to
a lot of people for many years, specifically as respects this building
and the services therein.
It's important to note that the wonderful relationship that we
have with your staff and the trust that has built up over the years is a
significant asset in negotiating with one another in arriving at an
agreement which, today, the Board of David Lawrence and the
management team fully support those terms and the obligations
thereunder and the pro forma financial statement.
If I could comment briefly on the financial statement, we have
worked diligently with your staff and with our staff and others around
the state, and that pro forma, as it exists today, has been significantly
reduced. The financial obligation that you saw initially has been
dramatically reduced, and it's been reduced to the point where I, as
chairman and member of the board, am fully committed to covering
those losses that do remain without an unnecessary commitment to
asking for additional funding. That pro forma that you're looking at
anticipates no additional revenues from the General Fund of the
county from that which exists today.
So diligently, we and your staff and others, have worked so that
the General Fund obligation today will be sufficient with our efforts
to work within this community to raise the sufficient funds to cover
the remaining loss. That is a commitment all of us make on the
board, the management team, and everybody associated with David
Lawrence.
Lastly, you may be aware of the dramatic changes in David
Lawrence, the new buildings, the enthusiasm of the philanthric
community -- philanthropic community to acknowledge and to
recognize that, collectively, we can make a difference in Collier
County in mental health and become a shining example, not only
through our ability to address those that are incarcerated or arrested,
May 27, 2025
Page 29
but to this entire community, that David Lawrence can represent hope
and dignity to the entire community from the breadth of the east, to
the west, to the north, and to the south of this community, have a
facility that we are all extremely proud of.
And this is an integral part of that. We must continue to struggle
together to address the needs of this entire community, those that
have and those that have not, because the dignity of the human mind
is something that should never be underestimated and we should do
everything in our power to improve.
I have a son who's mentally ill. And the efforts that David
Lawrence and others have had and the advances that have been made
in mental health are reflected in David Lawrence. I would like to
think that they are reflected in the future of David Lawrence as we
hold out our hand to Collier County and say, please partner with us
again in the future.
This central receiving facility, for those of you who haven't
analyzed the data, just about everybody that comes to a central
receiving facility is brought by means of public conveyance. People
just don't walk up to it. It's brought by the Sheriff's Office, by
ambulances, by people suffering from not only alcohol but substance
abuse and fentanyl and the ability to react to those kinds of issues as
quickly as possible.
So public conveyance brings those people to the facility, which
is reflected in the fact that 61 percent of those brought to the central
receiving facility are uninsured. Twenty-two percent of the people
who come to that central receiving facility are covered by Medicaid
which covers less than half of the cost. Not charges, half of the cost.
Four percent are from Medicare, which in my own experience in
running healthcare facilities for many, many years, doesn't cover total
cost either. It's about 85 percent. The balance of 13 percent are those
that do have some insurance.
May 27, 2025
Page 30
So when you wonder why we're struggling to come up with a
bottom line, it's because of the generosity of others, it's because
Collier County recognized in your contributions in what you make
and the grants that are made that give us the ability to provide those
kinds of services.
So once again, thank you for your cooperation. Thank you for
your partnership over many, many, many years, 56 years, and in help
us do everything we can to bring dignity to the population of Collier
County and the dignity which a single human mind should be
afforded. They deserve nothing less.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Morton, thank you very much
for your comments. Of particular interest was the commentary
concerning the -- what I would describe as sort of the elephant in the
room, and that is the ongoing financial obligations of the county as
this progresses over the years. I think that's been addressed, and I
want to thank you for clarifying that. I also thank you for your
service to the medical community over the many, many years.
Are there any questions for Mr. Morton?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Burgess?
MR. BURGESS: Thank you.
I was asked to speak to -- a bit about the scope of service and
some other items, so I'm going to tackle those one by one, and I think
I can get through these pretty quickly because, again, we've spent a
lot of time together reviewing a lot of this information.
But in specific, on the scope of service, the central receiving
facility is, of course, a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week, 365 days' service
provider. We will never close, including during current recent
hurricanes, and we will be available for the community every day
here moving forward as well as in the central receiving facility.
May 27, 2025
Page 31
As we've talked about, there will be 87 beds in the central
receiving facility. They will be consisting of the 45 beds that will be
Baker Act and Marchman Act crisis stabilization beds duly licensed,
along with 30 licensed psychiatric hospital beds that will be able to
serve Medicare patients which, of course, for a long while we've had
to send out of county. They will be able to stay right here and receive
services like all others. And greatly expanded emergency behavioral
health assessment center, ESAC.
Currently at David Lawrence Center, we only have three
emergency behavioral health beds for all of Collier County, kids and
adults, and that will expand in this new facility to 12.
It acts as the single drop-off location for law enforcement for
individuals that would be under the Baker Act or the Marchman Act.
They will -- it will also assist those that are walk-in and voluntary
admissions to the facility, and we will make immediately available
the crisis assessment and triage and other related services that are
necessary for anybody that would be struggling with such a crisis.
We will follow, as we do currently, the transportation plan that
is in place right now between DLC and the Collier County Sheriff's
Office, and that does get updated periodically per the state
requirements, and we will continue to update that to ensure that
there's efficient, effective transportation of law enforcement and DLC
in this operation, and, of course, we'll comply, as we always have,
with both evidence-based practice and Department of Children and
Family and other related licensure supports -- requirements.
One of the things that had come up in previous conversation is
wanting to ensure that there were performance measures that were
put into the operating agreement that -- we have a number that were
listed officially into the operations agreement, and you will note here
that we will be screening. Again, 100 percent of the individuals that
come in will receive applicable clinic screening for -- to determine
May 27, 2025
Page 32
what their challenges are and what the appropriate response is.
We will be making admission of 100 percent of those that meet
the criteria under the Baker Act and 100 percent of those meeting the
criteria for the Marchman Act to be admitted into the facility, and we
will make sure that we have 95 percent of the individuals -- and, of
course, we'll strive for 100 percent -- but will be -- will be offered an
appointment within seven days for outpatient services if they don't
meet the criteria.
So, of course, importantly, anybody that does meet the criteria,
needs that level of extensive support, would go right onto the unit. If
they don't meet that criteria, we also want to make sure that they're
linked effectively and efficiently into outpatient care, and we're
making that commitment that they will have an appointment for that
outpatient support within seven business days.
We understand also that there may be individuals that don't
show up for that seven-day appointment or within that seven-day
appointment, and we're making a commitment to outreach. If they
don't show up, we will make sure that we will attempt to outreach
those individuals and offer them another appointment, again, trying
to ensure that we link as many people as possible into the care that
they need.
We have a commitment here that we'll be doing client
satisfaction questionnaires to garner customer or client experience
information. We have a commitment in here regarding readmission
levels within 30 days, and that we'll be collecting that information
and meeting that standard if not quite a bit better.
Dropping-off time is a commitment that is part of the state
criteria for central receiving facilities is that the law enforcement will
be back rolling again after process within 15 minutes. So we will be
collecting that data and being able to respond to you to let you know
how we're doing relative to that. The key is we want to make sure
May 27, 2025
Page 33
that people are transitioned effectively and efficiently so that law
enforcement can kind of get back out into the community. And then
there is a number of annual admissions into the central receiving
facility that is committed to as well.
We also had a number of comments that came in from the
neighborhood during this process, as you are well familiar. And we
made a number of commitments in the PUD, so we wanted to make
sure to re-highlight those to speak to the fact that we are doing our
very best to continue to be good neighbors in that neighborhood.
One of which is that we will have a security officer that will be
present at all times in the institutional subdistrict. We will -- if it -- if
it works out that the county is able to, and we believe they can, I'll
put a bus shelter right by the central receiving facility. There is one
that's just walking distance right down from there right now.
We've also agreed that we'll construct a 10-foot wall that was
requested of the neighbors that are on the northern border and the
eastern border of the central receiving facility. We will create a
security plan that will be in conjunction and collaboration with the
Sheriff's Office, and that will be approved by the Board of County
Commissioners to ensure that we're integrating best practice around
security cameras and other security measures. And we made a
commitment, and we've actually been doing this for quite a while
now, that we are offering transportation support for all clients that are
being discharged if they don't have a way to be transported to their
discharge location. We've been doing that. We will continue to do
that. And that we made a commitment that we will hold monthly
meetings with the neighborhood so that we can ensure that we're
addressing any issues that they may be having in real time in a
proactive manner.
Currently, we have this number of beds. We thought it was
important for us to review the beds, so I'm going to go to the next
May 27, 2025
Page 34
slide pretty quickly here. This just denotes that we have currently on
campus 63 beds. One of the things to note is this asterisk that after
Hurricane Ian, we were granted an increase in our licensed beds, but
it's a temporary waiver.
We only have that until the new central receiving facility is put
in place, and that was because of us having so many people that were
coming to us, and we were constantly over licensed capacity, so they
gave us --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Burgess, on the beds issue, I
know you said you want to kind of go through that quickly. That's a
central issue to a lot of folks here, so I'd like you to really focus on
that and tell us what the actual numbers are. And I know you're
going to do that, but don't run through this quickly.
MR. BURGESS: Got it. Okay.
Yeah, so this slide was really just to make sure -- to point out the
fact that we do have temporary licenses that are in place right now.
So currently you'll see that we have 30 adult crisis stable -- crisis
stabilization beds effective 2022; however, we were able to get that
increased another 15 as a temporary waiver. That's only available
until the new central receiving facility is available, okay.
Now, this slide is really what gets into the meat of the beds, and
that's why I wanted to -- this is the one I wanted to maybe spend a
little bit more time on.
So basically, what you'll see is what this all will look like. I
know there's been questions, what's going to be at the new central
receiving facility campus, the CCBHC, what is going to remain at the
David Lawrence Center's location, and what's that going to mean as
far as total bed capacity? Because there's been some question and
comments, confusion related to we're really not picking up many
beds in this process, but we are clearly picking up significant beds.
So when you look at the central receiving facility, which is in
May 27, 2025
Page 35
that green -- in those green boxes, you'll see that's the 87 beds that we
continue to talk about. That's going to greatly increase our adult
services.
You'll see the 12 beds there are the adult emergency
service -- emergency service assessment center. That's the
emergency behavioral health room, if you will, for all of Collier
County. Currently that's three, and that's going to go to 12.
As I mentioned before, we have a crisis stabilization unit. The
adult beds in our community, we have 30, but that was increased to
45 temporarily. We're going to go -- we'll have the 45 beds, plus the
Medicare beds in-patient, plus the acute in-patient hospital beds, so
that's 75 beds.
So the license that we have -- that we had, which was 30,
temporarily increased, that's going to go to 75. So you can see we're
greatly increasing the adult in-patient capacity for psychiatric needs.
And, again, those will be duly licensed, available for folks that are
under the Baker Act or under the Marchman Act.
And then what will stay on the DLC location is actually going to
be an increase in beds as well. You'll see that we have 78 beds that
are identified there. So all the way over to the far right you'll see the
87 beds in the central receiving facility, plus the 78 beds, gets us to
165 total beds when everything is completely built out.
What's going to stay on the DLC campus are programs and
services that the commissioners have also identified as major needs
and things that we need to be working on in our community, one of
which is we're going to have increased beds for children. Right now
we've only got 15 beds for all of the kids in Collier County. In the
new iteration on the new -- on the campus -- the current campus will
go to 30 beds and will increase to have its own emergency services
department, which will be six beds. So that's an additional 36 beds
right there that we know are desperately needed for our kids.
May 27, 2025
Page 36
The additional beds are going to be related to future
substance-use disorder beds, and we know that one of the other issues
that's been brought up is if somebody's in an acute care setting, like
the central receiving facility, they're there for three days or they're
there for five days, they need to have someplace to be discharged for
longer-term support and care. Not everything can be solved from a
detox or a Marchman Act circumstance within three to five days.
They'll be able to go -- we'll have more beds available for, like,
28-day longer-term programming on the DLC campus. So that's
where those total beds increase on both campuses significantly to get
us to 165 total beds when you add them all up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There had been some rumor,
perhaps, or misunderstanding that there would be shutting down beds
and replacing them with the beds in the new facility. But is it
accurate to say that today you have 78 beds; is that what you have on
campus now?
MR. BURGESS: We have --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Am I reading that correctly?
MR. BURGESS: We have -- actually, what do we have?
Nancy --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Go back a slide.
MR. BURGESS: Go back one slide; 63.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You have 63 beds today.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the -- you're not -- you're not
going to reduce that number with supplanting them with beds in the
new facility?
MR. BURGESS: No. The beds that are going to be available
that are going to be in the new facility will all be -- we will continue
to have the same beds that we have on campus and expand that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There had been some confusion
May 27, 2025
Page 37
about that, and I just wanted you to clarify it. So thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But if I remember correctly, you
said that's primary, the 63. The minute that facility opens, we
subtract 15.
MR. BURGESS: Well, yeah. The license that we have -- well,
I think -- I want to make sure that we're clear.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So clarify that, because it
sounded --
MR. BURGESS: The 45 beds that we have right now is a
temporary license. That's for both adult and children. The adults are
going to all go over into the new facility. The children are going to
stay on the main campus. So we only have the 45-bed capacity
licensed right now because we're going to be creating more adult
services through the central receiving facility.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I guess the answer to the
Chairman's question is, then, what's the actual beds right now? Not
talking about the granted 15 because of the hurricane situation.
MR. BURGESS: Well, it would be 48 --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MR. BURGESS: -- that are not underneath the temporary
waiver.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
Thank you. Mr. Burgess, on the next slide, we have 87 beds at
the central receiving facility. Of those 87, is any -- are any beds
going to be transferred from another location into that to make that 87
beds?
MR. BURGESS: The -- the detox component that we have right
May 27, 2025
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now on our current campus, that is something that is under the
Marchman Act. So those services will be provided under the central
receiving facility.
COMMISSIONER HALL: My question: Of the 87 beds, are
any going to be transferred in to make that 87 up? I'm looking for the
net increase in beds for the taxpayers. I'm looking -- are you going to
have 87 brand-new beds, or are there going to be some beds
transferred from another location into the central facility -- central
receiving facility to make up the 87 beds?
I had heard -- and it could be misinformation -- that 27 beds
were going to come into the central receiving facility from another
location that David Lawrence Center operates, for a net increase of
60 beds. I just want to make sure if that's true or false.
MR. BURGESS: No. The number of beds that are going to be
in the new facility, that 87 beds -- currently we have three emergency
services beds that are available. That will -- that service will now be
provided at the new facility. The 18 beds of detox, that service is
going to be provided within the central receiving facility. So we're
not technically losing beds. We're providing the services in the new
facility.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm still not -- I'm still not clear on
the answer. I don't care what you're doing with each bed, you know,
whether you do an adult bed or a Marchman bed or Medicare
in-patient. I don't care what the specific thing is. If we -- if we go for
this central receiving facility, are there going to be 87 brand-new
beds without causing any -- any transfers among the David Lawrence
Center facility to obtain those beds?
MR. BURGESS: This is Nancy Dauphinais. She's our chief
operating officer, and I just want to make sure we give her an
opportunity to try to answer that question.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think the simple question is,
May 27, 2025
Page 39
if I'm understanding it is, you have a certain number of beds today --
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- twelve of them, or whatever the
number was, are temporary, and they go away because of the license,
so we don't count those. So you have a certain number of beds today.
That's number's X. And then you're going to have new beds in the
facility. That will be Y. Are the total beds going forward X plus Y I
think is really what the question is. Are you losing beds?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: What I believe we're talking
about -- again, Nancy Dauphinais, for the record, chief operating
officer -- is that we have 30 adult beds now which will become 75
beds in the new adult unit. The new central receiving facility will
have 75 Baker Act receiving beds. We only have 30 right now when
we started this process.
Three ESAC beds now become 12 ESAC beds in the new
building. That was always the plan was we didn't have enough adult
beds, so we're going to move -- create a big adult unit there, leave the
kids on the main unit, and have room for expansion on the original
campus. Does that make sense? I don't know. No?
COMMISSIONER HALL: What's the net increase in beds?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Hundred and two between the two
campuses. A hundred and sixty-five beds between the two campuses.
And after --
COMMISSIONER HALL: What is the net increase in beds in
the new central receiving facility?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: That would be 57, I guess. I mean, if you
think, we have 30 and three now, and we're going to 75 and 12.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Sixty-seven-ish.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: I mean, it's -- the hard thing is that you
can't do everything in the current beds that they're going to be able to
do in the new beds.
May 27, 2025
Page 40
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's why I was trying to simplify
this. And that's why I wanted you to spend some time on that,
because I knew this was going to be a big issue. And, again, I'm
going to repeat myself, and I hate to do that because it irritates me
when other people repeat themselves.
But we have a certain number of beds today, okay. We have a
certain number of beds today. Now, 12 of those disappear, okay. So
we're not going to count those 12, so delete those. You have a certain
number of beds minus those 12 today. When you open up the new
facility, you're going to have some additional beds.
And I think the question simply is, between X that you have
today minus the 12 and the Y that you're creating in the new facility,
are you going to have X plus Y beds, or is there going to be some
reduction in the number? We're not concerned about the use. I think
Commissioner Hall said he was not concerned about the use. Just
looking at the number. That's all.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: So just to be clear, you want to know, on
our current campus, the number of beds we have and what will be on
the new campus? Forty-eight on our current campus now before we
build the new building. The new building has 87 beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Understood. Now you've got 48
on your campus now. When the new building opens, how many will
you have on your campus?
MS. DAUPHINAIS: We're going to renovate to make 78 beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So we're not losing beds by
building --
MS. DAUPHINAIS: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- this facility?
MR. BURGESS: We're increasing beds.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: We're increasing in both locations.
MR. BURGESS: And we're increasing in both.
May 27, 2025
Page 41
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, does that
answer your question?
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's all I was asking, what was the
net increase in beds.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: A hundred and forty-eight.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And maybe, and -- that
was a -- that was a fine explanation, I think. It was a bit hard for me,
because your previous slide -- go to that previous slide -- showed 63
beds up from 48 beds based upon a temporary permit.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So we're up here trying to do
math, and then you go to the next slide. It shows 78 beds. We're not
seeing 78 beds. You just got done telling us that 63 are there now
and 12 of them, or so, are going to go away with this temporary
permit. So I was -- we weren't hearing the redo of the current facility
for the expansion of the operations within the current facility.
As Commissioner Saunders has shared, it's been represented to
many of us that the beds that you have in the current facility are
going to the new facility and there's not the represented net increase
in the beds that we were thinking. So that explanation got better, for
me, anyway.
MR. BURGESS: I apologize. I think the temporary licensure
might have been the element that threw things off.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, there's 63 and 78 on one
slide. You have 63 today, and then here you're saying you have 78.
And so we weren't -- I wasn't -- I wasn't seeing the math.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the good news is, the math
was just pluses and minus. There was no real complicated math here.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I didn't have to take my shoes
May 27, 2025
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off.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we have Kristi Sonntag
here who has worked on this, even before central receiving facility.
So if you have something you want to add to this to help clarify,
Kristi.
MS. SONNTAG: Kristi Sonntag, Community and Human
Services director, for the record.
Mr. Burgess, I just want to clarify for the commissioners, you
currently have 30 adult CSU beds, correct? Take out the --
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: -- the temporary license.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: And those 30 beds, correct me if I'm wrong,
are moving from the Bathey Lane, the main campus, to the new
structure, correct?
MR. BURGESS: Correct, yes.
MS. SONNTAG: And you currently have three ESAC beds?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: And you're going to increase -- you're moving
those three over, so that's a net increase of eight, so that brings us to
12.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: And the 15 detox beds you have now, you're
moving those as well.
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: Okay. So you're moving 48 beds.
MR. BURGESS: Right. And that's because those --
MS. SONNTAG: And then you'll have 87?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
MS. SONNTAG: Okay. Does that answer your question,
Commissioner?
May 27, 2025
Page 43
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And then they're building
new beds to replace --
MS. SONNTAG: They're building new beds on the main
campus.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And at that point we're only talking
about use. We're not talking about numbers.
MS. SONNTAG: Yeah, right.
MR. BURGESS: That's exactly correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Let me put this in plain
math, all right. Okay. Here's what we're asking. You've answered it,
but, you know, we're trying to get -- first of all, this is so
disappointing, and I'm going to have more to say afterwards.
But if we build 87 beds, okay, and I'm -- and I'll -- we've had
some funny math here, so I'm going to just use some, you know, set
numbers. If we build 87 beds and then you take 30 that are in another
facility and close those down and then move those over, then we
haven't increased by 87 beds. You've taken 30 of our 87, and so
that's the delta. That's what Commissioner Hall's trying to get at.
That's what we're all trying to get at, and everyone's tap dancing
around it, okay.
We're trying to figure, did we build a facility that added 87 beds
to DLC? That answer is no, okay. And I'm the biggest supporter of
this, but I'm telling you we're not building the International Space
Station here.
This has come before the commissioners 17 times. We should
all be embarrassed about this, embarrassed with the huge need. And
I'll have more to say here.
But to get to this math equation -- okay. I think we all took
Algebra I. If I have a building with 87 beds and you -- I won't use
the word -- steal. You acquire 30 of those that were in another
May 27, 2025
Page 44
building to move them over, then the building we just built that has
87 beds in it doesn't have 87. It has 87 minus 30 because the 30 just
moved over from Building A to Building B.
I'm not saying that's a huge showstopper, but one of the things
we're trying to get at -- and Commissioner Hall eloquently started this
question -- is what are we providing the taxpayers? And if alls we're
doing is a little bit of a shell game with some of the beds -- and it's all
needed, so nobody's sitting here saying this is -- you know, the sky is
falling. But in the end when some people think DLC is staying
exactly where it is, and we're building a facility to increase 87 beds,
we're not. We're building 87 beds and then you're moving some of
yours, you know, over there, and then maybe we're going to have,
like, 50 more beds than what you had previously.
I mean, I know I'm rounding up the numbers, but I'm pretty
certain, with the meetings I've had with our County Manager, with
our Clerk of Courts -- I mean, this isn't complicated here.
And everyone's trying to kind of sort of make it sound like,
"Well, the delta is a positive. It's a positive," but it's not the full
positive. And I'm not saying that that -- like I said, that's a
showstopper. I understand what you're doing to move things around
to increase -- you know, have a much more cohesive and a better
flow and all of that.
But we also don't want to cloud this and make it sound like we're
building a facility that's adding 87 beds. It is, but then before the first
person walks in the door, you know, DLC's going to walk over and
put pillows on 30 of the 87 beds, and they're already spoken for
because you're moving them from another facility.
I mean, am I correct? It's -- it's plain math.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. I mean, the math is it's a net pickup in
all operations.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I got that, but it's not a net
May 27, 2025
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pickup of 87. Yes or no?
MR. BURGESS: That's correct, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, I know. And that's
what we're all trying to get to. It's like as soon as the 87 beds come
online, 30 of them are already spoken for because you're moving
them over from another facility. And like I said, I'm not saying
that -- I'm a huge supporter of this, but we're also trying to figure out
what the net number is, the net new number. I'm speaking. I'm not
done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I wanted to clarify something for
you, I mean, because you asked a question.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: He answered it, but he didn't
answer the question you asked, so...
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Somebody answer it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a very important one, because I
think you said you've got 87 beds now, and you've got 78 beds now,
and when you open up you're not going to have 165. You're not
going to have that 78.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: He said yes, but what he was
saying is, yes, we are going to have the 78 beds, and we are going to
have the 87.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So I just want to make sure you
guys are communicating.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, we're not, because I also
here within the answer that beds that are in another facility are going
to be shut down and moved, and those beds will be moved over, and
they will be mixed into the 87, correct? I mean, I've heard that three
or four times.
May 27, 2025
Page 46
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. I mean, so the whole premise of a
central receiving facility is to have one site that's providing those like
services that are necessary for adults that are in crisis, Baker Act or
Marchman Act. So we need to move our current bed availability --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Totally get that.
MR. BURGESS: -- to the new site.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Totally get that.
MR. BURGESS: So you're absolutely correct, it's going to have
87 beds in this facility, of which we're already operating 30 of those
like beds.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right, bingo. There's some
involved in this discussion, though, that I think are assuming that the
87 -- nothing else moves. Everything is static at DLC, and then we
cut the ribbon on this new building that has 87 more beds. And that's
true, but then, like you said, you're about to move some over and
acquire instantaneously the 87, which means the delta at the end of
what we're increasing bed-wise isn't 87. It's less than that as far as
new beds. Beds that you never had. And like you said, it's about 30
that you're moving over, because like you said, you're trying to get
everything under one roof correctly.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we've got some in these
discussions that say we're building a facility. It's got 87 new beds.
Add it to what they already have. It's a huge increase in the beds. It
is an increase, but it's not -- it's not an increase of 87 brand-new beds
that you've never had. It's going to be a mix.
MR. BURGESS: Correct. And I completely agree with that. I
think it's really important, though, to state right after that, though, it is
a cumulative net increase across both.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, absolutely, yeah.
MR. BURGESS: So I don't want people to leave thinking that
May 27, 2025
Page 47
it's not a pickup in support and services and beds for our community.
It's a significant pickup. It's just a little bit of a realignment based on
what makes sense from a central receiving provision standpoint in
operating those beds. It wouldn't make sense for us to try to keep the
30 beds.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But it's not a pickup 87 in the
end. It's not. It's --
MR. BURGESS: Not --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- 87 new ones, but then --
MR. BURGESS: Not in that building --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BURGESS: -- but when you look at both -- both
campuses, it's a huge pickup.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Well, of course, yeah. I
mean, we're building a new building. It better be a pickup.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: Nancy Dauphinais. I just want to make
one clarification. The current Baker Act unit that we have on the
Bathey Lane campus that has existed there for decades is a 30-bed
license for kids and adults. It's one shared license.
So when that -- that means -- we always meant to keep the kids
on the main campus. So all 30 beds, that's a shared adult and kid
license. So it's not a 30-bed adult going to the new building. It's a
flexible license. So on any given day, we may have had 10 kids, 20
adults. It's flexible, but that means it's not a full 30 adult beds that
we're picking up from the main campus and moving over. It's a
shared license, and it will become fully adults on the new campus,
and the children have to remain.
So I think it's important to understand that the children is still
part of that bed count, the children's unit.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But how many beds in your
current facility, basically, get loaded up into a moving van and move
May 27, 2025
Page 48
away after we cut the ribbon on this building that has 87? I mean,
I'm trying to put this in third grade terms.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: If we moved 30 over there, there would be
zero kids beds on the main campus, on the Bathey Lane campus.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right, yeah.
MS. DAUPHINAIS: So we could move 30, but then you would
have zero kids. So usually we had about a 19 and 11 split, so we
would probably move 19 and keep 11, but we don't have to do that
because we have that unit available to immediately become a full
kids unit.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I just -- my last comment will
be, I think the initial thought, you know, 17 meetings ago was we
were going to build a building that was going to have 87, 100 beds. I
mean, the number has -- kept changing, and you weren't changing
anything on your side. You weren't -- you weren't moving
over -- you know, maybe there was some onesie, twosies, but it
seems like that number is growing, and it's chipping away at the 87,
which I think previously had been a bigger number. Like I said, this
facility's not getting any bigger, and it's not getting any cheaper as we
continue to, you know, kick this decision around, but -- okay. I got
what I needed. I'll have more to say after.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, thank you,
Commissioner LoCastro. That helped clarify things.
I guess my question, coming back around -- because one of the
things that hasn't been discussed is the expansion of your existing
facility, because that's coming in to get to the 165. Where you spread
them out and who they go for is an entirely separate discussion.
When we come into the operational aspects, and as
Commissioner Solis so adeptly put out a long time ago, he was
afflicted with that mental issue called a law degree. I'm not. And
May 27, 2025
Page 49
when I was -- when I was reading the operating agreement, it didn't
really talk -- you were -- you were funding-wise going to be looking
at the similar -- same revenue stream that you currently receiving
from grants and state and federal and county funding. And the
operating revenue you were going to -- was going to be supported
over here in the new facility with no additional ask.
The operating agreement that I read really only revolves around
the new facility because that's what you're leasing from us.
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so how -- is there
sufficient management with regard to the operating expenses and
those disbursals between the two facilities? Because you've almost
got an equivalent -- equivalent amount: 78 in the existing facility by
the time you're done moving and rehabbing and so on, and then an
additional 87. The operating agreement that I was reading
specifically tied into the new facility. Could you elaborate a little bit
on that?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, yeah. So I think what you're alluding to
is the fact that, from an accounting standpoint, that we have
every -- that we have separation from an accounting of the operations
of the central receiving facility compared to the other forms of the
organization.
And I can say emphatically yes, we have the capability -- we've
been doing it for many, many years -- of separating everything by
department. So we actually have 45 different programs at DLC. So
we run accounting for every one of those departments. So we have
an -- you know, the opportunity to slice and dice all of the operational
expenses and revenue by department and will have a separate, you
know, I guess, tab on our spreadsheet that would be specific to the
central receiving facility of which we've talked, you know, with the
Clerk and with the County Manager that that is, you know, certainly
May 27, 2025
Page 50
something that we can go over with regularity with their teams as
they would like to do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I guess -- and it's hard. This
is a terribly emotional subject, and you don't want to -- you don't
want to -- as Mr. Morton said at the beginning, these are human
beings. These are lives that we're dealing with every single day, and
you don't want to correlate this to the bottom line and the bottom
dollar, but you're effectively looking at more than doubling the bed
capacities that you currently have with no ask for additional revenue,
and then there is an additional 87 beds plus/minus coming into the
new facility without an additional ask for any more money.
Although, when I read the operating agreement, it said if you didn't
have enough money, you were going to cut the LOS. The level of
service was going to be reduced to accommodate that if the revenue
streams from alternative sources, federal, state, and then ultimately,
the General Fund weren't attainable.
MR. BURGESS: That was -- that was introduced as an option.
It's certainly not an option that we want to ever have to use, but we
believe that we're going to be able to secure the funds that are not
going to make that necessary.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. I just have a
tendency to plan for the worst and hope for the best. But when I
was -- when I was looking at that, that's multiple times that I've seen
that come from your organization with regard to those
operations -- potential. I want to say potential -- but potential
operational deficiencies.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
Okay. I think what we're struggling with here -- we all agree the
subject here and the importance of a central receiving facility and a
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behavioral health facility in Collier County is unmatched. It's that
important, just like Mr. Morton said. We're not disputing that.
What we're trying to wrap our head around is the expenditure of
public money to get to the expansion that we need and that we want.
Originally, we started out with $26 million at 120 beds. Life
happened. That went away.
We approved a $56 million surtax maximum spend, but all of a
sudden the beds went from 120 to, like, a net 60 to 67, whatever the
numbers were. That's just -- that's a lot of money for a small
increase.
Then we take a look at the pro forma, and we're losing over 80
grand a month in the beginning, and that -- you know, yes -- yes, the
risk is on y'all, and that's -- you know, that's all in the operating
agreement, but I -- I have -- I don't want to set this thing up to fail.
If everything goes south, at the end of the day the taxpayers
wind up with a $56 million facility on five acres over there that we
don't have any idea what we would do if you don't -- I'm talking
about if everything goes bad. If things don't go well, you can't
exercise your option to purchase it and just things go bad.
I don't want to set us up with that. I want to feel good about
going forward, and I'm trying to get there. I'm trying my hardest to
get there.
Father Orsi, I'm really trying to get there.
FATHER ORSI: We'll talk.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
But I think you can hear the concern from all of us about that.
What is the net increase of services? What are we going to gain? I
think we've had a good -- a good hint about the renovation from the
existing building. That makes me feel better. But that's not part of
our $56 million expenditure. That's something else that will
just -- that's a bonus for us. That's not something that we're taking
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part of.
So I really do want to feel better about where we're going from
here with building a new facility for the $56 million and getting a
good grasp of what the actual increase of beds and services is for
adults and for children, and I'm not there yet.
MR. BURGESS: Okay. I'm -- I want to help you get there. So
what would be helpful in that regard? I tried -- I tried to go through
the beds. If it will be helpful to go through that again, we can do that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Commissioner LoCastro said it in
addition to what I was asking. I just want to know for $56 million,
what's the net increase of services and beds that we're gaining? I
don't care about what comes from here, what comes from there,
what's going to renovate and increase over there. I don't care about
any of that. For $56 million, what are we getting?
MR. BURGESS: You're talking about between the two
campuses?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm talking about for the central
receiving facility that we're going to build 56 -- spend $56 million to
build that facility. I don't care what the other services are. What are
we getting for 56 million?
MR. BURGESS: So there will be 87 beds in that facility, and
then if we're talking about having to subtract because of some of the
beds that are going to be coming over, as Nancy mentioned, we have
a 30-bed license. That's partially children, partially adult. If we said
20 of those beds, 19 of those beds are going to come over that are
adult beds, then it would be 87 less 19.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So it would be a 67 -- 67-bed
increase -- net increase in services?
MR. BURGESS: If you're subtracting what's coming over.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's the question that I was
asking. Thank you.
May 27, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
We all got quite a few calls from people of significant stature in
the community and people who are interested in this facility being
done correctly. The one miscommunication at least I had having
conversations with a few people is this can be built anywhere, okay.
I'm a huge supporter of the right spot is DLC, and I voted yes every
single time even when it hasn't been unanimous. But the clock is
starting to tick, and I'm sitting here really disappointed that we're still
not there yet.
And I can tell you, this -- you know, when some people said to
me, I can't believe the commissioners, with such a great need in
mental health, are going to let this facility evaporate. And the reality
is, it's not -- it's going to be built somewhere. It doesn't have to be on
DLC property. And if we can't come to an agreement -- if it seems
like the numbers are off, if it seems like this is a better deal for
DLC -- and I'm not -- this is me just talking from the conversations
I've had -- then that's what's going to make this thing turn into a
different deal with somebody else.
So I think, you know, we have limited time here. And in my
initial closing comment right now, the person I'd really like to hear
from who's been in the middle of all the meetings -- and I spoke with
Ms. Patterson a couple days ago about speaking after you-all
did -- I'd really like to hear from the county. I mean we did a bit, but
Ms. Patterson has been our -- our five-star general at all the meetings.
She's been the one talking to us and making a lot of concerning
comments that have us up here trying to make sure we do the right
thing.
So, you know, Ms. Patterson, I mean, I go over to you. You've
got a microphone. We talked about me calling on you and saying can
you give us your perspective of why we're not at an agreement yet
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and what the main concerns are of the county so we can wrap this up
a bit and see if we're close and we just need another couple of weeks
in negotiation, or if you've got bigger concerns than that, because we
haven't been in these discussions the way you have. So I think it's
great to go on the record, and you said you would, and I said I would
call on you, so I think this is a good time for you to give us your
summation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, thank you.
So we pushed onto this agenda specifically to give us another
meeting if we needed it. Now, we have been meeting regularly with
the folks from David Lawrence as well as the community to get our
arms around 17 meetings -- if that's the number's -- worth of
comments, and the Board has become increasingly direct about your
concerns and your support for the -- for mental health and for the
central receiving facility but also the questions that remain
unanswered.
So we're much closer on these agreements than we were even a
few weeks ago, but there still remain those questions -- and we've
articulated this to the David Lawrence folks -- of things that need to
be answered on the record so that the taxpayers, the people that paid
into the -- that voted for and then paid into this surtax understand
how this project has evolved. Because it did go forward under one
set of assumptions, as many of these projects did, and because of
circumstances not only with land use and the surrounding
neighborhood, but also we had a pandemic that has wildly affected
pricing and all those things that get to us now, essentially, a 60- or
70-bed facility for $56 million versus 120-bed facility for
$25 million -- just using round numbers -- from where we started at a
concept to where we are now. And so that's an answer that we owe
to the taxpayers; otherwise, it just looks like we're really bad at doing
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our job.
So we've talked a lot with the David Lawrence folks about that
and about squaring up the beds, as we've had this very confusing
conversation: Where are all of these beds? And I think to simplify it,
what we have is we have the central receiving facility and all of the
beds and concepts that will be there as well as an expansion of
children's beds or beds that will be able to be used to a greater extent
for children. That, outside of the purview of the surtax, is what, I
think, is starting to confuse this a little bit.
We are receiving less beds than we initially thought when we
offered this up as a surtax project, but as many [sic] beds as now can
be placed on this site due to height limitations and the zoning.
We are now going to receive beds that are coming over because
they fit into the central receiving facility, so that has to be considered
when looking at that 87 beds. So that kind of rounds out the
conversation about the beds.
Regarding these agreements, we've worked extensively -- and
hats off to the David Lawrence folks and the staff for working on
this, but the big question that you asked us is what is this going -- and
we're going to get to this probably when your conversation
goes -- what is this going to cost the county? Because there was
questions about the shortfalls -- that big number shortfall. We know
what we provide now for the current operations. The county needed
surety, the taxpayers needed surety that we weren't going into
something that we couldn't even get our arms around as far as a
liability to the taxpayers.
So there are certain limitations that are placed in this agreement
that don't stop David Lawrence from coming back to ask the Board of
County Commissioners. They have to do certain things and provide
certain information, but you're going into this knowing that we're
showing a shortfall in that pro forma. And not to say that things
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couldn't change, but they certainly could change either way, for the
better or for the worse. But the Board needs to -- and the taxpayers
need to understand that we're coming into this with a pro forma that
does have a shortfall.
That having been said, we know the need is there. The
taxpayers voted for a project to be able to get after that need. Does
that project have to be built on this property? That was a decision of
the Board and prior boards. Could we place this facility elsewhere?
Yes. We have been very direct with David Lawrence as well that we
wouldn't be doing our jobs if in the background here we didn't
continue to look at what all of our options were, because it could be
the Board's decision, it could be David Lawrence's decision, but we
owe an answer to the taxpayer about how we're going to get after
mental health.
And so Commissioner LoCastro is correct, if you told us to go
and find another location to build this, that is what we would do.
And we have been actively looking at appropriate locations, not only
on campus but off of campus.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So I just -- can I have just two
follow-up questions with you?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And one of them might be for
Mr. Burgess, so I'll ask the one that I think is maybe more for you,
Ms. Patterson.
This shortfall, should this be built on the David Lawrence
Center site that we're concerned about, do you feel like the same
exact shortfall would exist no matter where we put it, or it would be
significantly reduced if we found another location? And we know
where some of the locations were. We've talked about it before. And
there's even been possibly some new ones that have popped up. I'm
not holding you to an exact number, but would this shortfall be
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significantly reduced in some of the options other than DLC?
MS. PATTERSON: It would depend on what type of partner
you had in that project. Obviously, the county is not going to run a
mental health facility. That's -- we've been working hard to get away
from doing things that we're not good at, and I would definitely put
running a mental health facility into that category. So you would
need to find a provider.
Now, we don't know what that would look like or who is out
there because this deal, when it was -- when it was done, this
arrangement was not an arrangement that arose out of a solicitation.
So we don't know what other providers would be out there or what
their mix of beds -- and I'm looking at Kristi -- and the types of
payment that they may -- they may look at, if they are a not-for-profit
versus a for-profit. So there's a lot of unanswered questions. And a
lot of that would have to deal with how that solicitation was
structured and what type of arrangement we entered into with a
different provider.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So with what we know now,
the significant shortfall we're all concerned about really isn't
something that we can use as a detriment to the DLC deal, because it
could exist with anybody, right? So even though it's significant, it's
not that DLC specifically is creating the shortfall and everywhere else
it would be different, correct? Because we haven't done that --
MS. PATTERSON: We don't know the answer to that question.
It does beg the question of the solicitation. And we don't know what
the outcome of that would be. You get a lot of interest in some
solicitations, and you get very little interest in others, and it's really a
product of what's out there in the market.
Are there other mental health providers? I'm certain that there
are. Would they be interested in this concept? We wouldn't know
unless we were to solicit it. So to some extent, there's risk on either
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side.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And that's where I've said we
should exhaust all options with DLC before we magically go
somewhere else.
But my last question, and maybe it's for you, Mr. Burgess, or
somebody on your team. I understand the moving of the beds, but
one thing that might get a couple of commissioners here a little bit
more positive about this is we all want maximum new beds. We
want the delta to be as big as possible.
I understand the cohesion, and, wow, we're going to have this
new center, and now we can move stuff around and everything. But
the negative by some people up here and with good reason is, "Wow,
we built this new center with 87 beds," but then you immediately do
some restructuring of the facility you currently have and you get to
eat up some of that -- those beds, so it makes the delta a lot smaller.
I realize the advantage of that, but do you have to -- is it a
requirement for you to change anything? Do you have a building
that's collapsing or falling down? I realize moving the kids and the
cohesion, but let's say you did nothing, and the taxpayers built a
facility that had 87 beds in it and it was a delta of 87, is that possible,
or this moving of beds is a requirement by DLC because it -- it makes
the set up better? But also, too, you have to realize it's starting to
become a detriment, because initially it was over 100 beds. Then,
you know, due to time and costs and everything, it's whittling down.
You're chipping into the 87 even more with your restructuring of
the beds you have in other buildings, and that's a negative for some
people up here, and that's why I think you might not get all the votes
that you want. Do you have to move those beds as some sort of
requirement?
MR. BURGESS: I don't -- is there some sort of requirement to
do it? From a state standpoint, I would say I don't think there's a
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requirement. There's definitely a strong suggestion and
recommendation to do it. Because the whole premise and the
definition of a centralized receiving facility is to have one spot that
people would go to for those related supports.
So it's -- it's -- I would put it higher than being highly
recommended. It --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, I get that. I just think
in the initial discussions 16 meetings ago, that wasn't talked about
aggressively enough. So you have five commissioners up here that
have seen the delta of beds we're adding, the positive delta slowly
decrease, and then some of us might feel, me maybe even included,
that we're artificially decreasing it even -- even more. And that's not
the right word because, like you said, all those who want to see this
be the best facility might strongly suggest the move.
The issue, though, is, is it -- it makes the delta of beds we're
adding even lower than it was when it was 100 and something, and so
that's when we sit up here doing the math trying to get the best bang
for our buck, and it's starting to feel less of a bang for some -- some
commissioners up here.
And, you know, we're trying to -- trying to come to a collective
decision here. So -- I mean, but I hear your answer so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to have to take a break
here in just a moment.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Just real quick. Thank you,
Chairman.
I just -- you know, we've been going around and around trying
to figure out exactly what kind of delta we're going to end up with in
the positive. And I understand what you're saying about the central
receiving. You don't want to have people going to two different
locations for the same service, especially if it's a Marchman or Baker
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Act, something like that, so...
MR. BURGESS: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's understandable. But I just
want to shed a little light, because I know we're talking numbers of
bed, and those are small numbers. I want to talk about the big
numbers.
I mean, this is just rough estimates. You're talking, even at 87
beds -- let's say that was a delta, 87 -- it's about 580-some-thousand
dollars per bed that the county's going to spend. Now, if you take out
the 20 or 30 or 15, whatever these numbers we've been bouncing
around, we're looking at close to a million dollars a bed for this
facility.
And I know any -- Mr. Morton, you've held people's, you know,
portfolios and worked on those type of things, and if you had a client,
I don't know if you would recommend that to a client because I don't
know if that's -- I don't know. It's just a hard number to wrap my
head around, I mean, how we got there, and it's just -- it's reality right
now. That is the price tag. Close to a million-dollars-a-bed increase
for the citizens of Collier County, their money to be spent, so...
MR. BURGESS: Well, I would just mention that we do have
the folks from DeAngeles Diamond that have done, you know,
comparable construction estimates and assessments of comparable
types of buildings to be built. I know they're here if the construction
question is --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think we're going to go to a
break. I don't really need -- I just wanted to kind of shed some light
on -- not just talking numbers of beds. We're talking about real
dollars that the citizens are spending on this, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We're going to take a
break in just a moment. We'll break until 11 o'clock. But let
me -- let me suggest that there's a couple things that need to be
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clarified when we come back.
Number one, the net increase in beds. That seems to me to be
very simple. We have a net increase of 87 beds. Now, we're moving
some of the use of the beds into that facility, but we're not
eliminating the beds that exist. They're going to be used for
something else. You're going to need to explain that. To me it seems
pretty simple, but that's being missed here, I think, somehow.
And in addition, the facility itself -- and you can clarify this
when we come back -- I assume it's more than just the beds. I
assume that there's a -- there are other facilities in this thing. It's not
like a hospital where a hospital, you know, if you pay a million
dollars per bed, that's probably pretty reasonable. But we're not
really paying a million dollars for each of the beds here, because
there's more in this facility than just the beds. But I think those two
things need to be clarified. We're going to take a break until
11 o'clock.
(A recess was had from 10:46 a.m. to 11:11 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, if
you'll take your seats, we're going to proceed.
I'm going to ask Mr. Burgess, if he's still in the audience -- he
may have -- he may be seeking out psychiatric care somewhere right
now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's out there. They're in a
huddle. I think they needed until 11:15 for that huddle.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I just want to ask him a quick
question, and then we'll get back.
Mr. Burgess, as you're approaching the microphone, in terms of
the number of beds you have now and the number you're going to
have at the conclusion of this -- I'm going to use this one
example -- you've got one facility that has 30 beds in it that are kids'
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beds and adult beds. You're going to move all the adult uses of those
beds over to the new facility. What's going to happen with those
beds that would have been occupied by adults?
I'm assuming that those 30 beds will continue to be 30 beds used
for kids. And when you finish eating your lunch, let them
know -- no, I'm asking Mr. Burgess, I'm sorry. I don't want to be
rude, but I'm asking Mr. Burgess. He's the CEO there, and I want to
get total clarification where there's no confusion.
MR. BURGESS: Correct. Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So you got 30 beds right
now. Those 30 beds, once this new facility's open, what's going to
happen just with those 30 beds?
MR. BURGESS: Those beds can continue to be providing
Baker Act services.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I didn't ask you what they can be
used for. I asked you what --
MR. BURGESS: They will be. They will be used for --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a little different than "they can
be used." So they will be used. That's a commitment that you're
making?
MR. BURGESS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, there are other bed uses that
you're moving to the new facility. What are the other bed uses you're
moving to the new facility? You're moving those adult beds from
those 30, but those will continue to be kids' beds. What other uses
are you moving over?
MR. BURGESS: We're not moving any --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is that it?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, right. We will be operating 87 beds all
dedicated to Baker Act and Marchman Act. We are not removing --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's not what I'm asking -- I want
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to make sure we understand that 78 -- or the 78 beds you have right
now, those 78 beds are going to continue to be operated -- those 30
beds will be kids' beds. What other beds where the use might change,
if there are any? If those are the only ones, that's fine.
MR. BURGESS: The kids' beds are -- we'll be providing the
Baker Act support for kids on the main campus, yes, and
you're -- there's not going to be anything that's going to change
other -- one question that came up was related to detox services.
That's going to have to be handled in the current building, the new
building.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. So other than the
30 beds, what we were talking about, there are no other changes in
beds?
MR. BURGESS: We have an emergency services department
on the current campus that moves into the new building. That's three
beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. What happens to those three
beds that are being used right now? Are they going to be -- are they
going to go away?
MR. BURGESS: No, they'll stay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What are they going to be used
for?
MR. BURGESS: It would be for emergency services for kids.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So you're not giving up
any beds? You are moving some uses, but you're not giving up any
beds?
MR. BURGESS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's the X plus Y that I was
talking about before. That's still the accurate equation. You've got X
beds now, Y beds are going in there, and you're going to have X plus
Y. You're not eliminating one single bed by this --
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MR. BURGESS: We're not eliminating any beds.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move on -- we've
got a couple other commissioners. What I'd like to suggest is
that -- we'll see how far we get, but then we'll go from there in terms
of -- we have a 1 o'clock time-certain as well, and I want to make
sure we have a lunch break as well.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
So no beds disappear, right? A moving van doesn't come and
take away any beds? A building isn't destroyed because --
MR. BURGESS: No.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- you've gone over to the
central receiving facility. Those beds still exist, but I think where I
sort of scratch my head a little, and maybe one or two other
commissioners, when you say, no, those beds won't disappear but
they'll be used for emergency services or whatnot, I don't want to
make it sound like -- or I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I
don't want to make it sound like they're sort of overages for
emergency things that may or may not pop up because the thing -- the
mission that those beds were used for is now in the central receiving
facility. So we'll continue to keep those 30 beds with pillows on
them and made, but the mission of those beds has been moved over.
That's not untrue. The mission is moved over, but those beds will
still have a need and will still be used. They're not just sort of extra
overages for something that may not happen frequently, correct.
MR. BURGESS: Absolutely. They will -- they will remain.
They will be used, and a great example of that is the children's
services, Baker Act services and emergency services for kids that we
operate now will continue to operate, and those beds are there for that
purpose.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. That's more clear than,
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like, an hour ago when I think some of us were hearing, you know,
"When the beds move over." That's why I was saying, so then the
building gets destroyed or the beds get taken away, and so you've
answered that.
My second question is, there's definitely a disconnect or we're
not quite in full agreement on the operational procedures of how the
county and DLC is going to partner; the naming rights, the other
things. And this is all part of today's vote. And from my discussions
with -- with our County Manager and with our Clerk of Courts and
others, and the other commissioners have all spoken with the same
people, there's some definite disconnects or not full agreement.
Does anybody want to tackle that -- that now? Because that's
another, you know, 800-pound gorilla that's sitting in the room that
requires us to see if we think we're close enough that maybe nobody's
signing on the dotted line today, but today's vote is to continue to
extend the conversation and work out the fine details of the
agreement.
I would ask you and then I would ask Ms. Patterson to chime in
for the benefit of all five of us. How far away are we on an
agreement for the operational procedures of how we're going to
partner and also, too, on the money, the naming rights, and those
other things? I'd like to hear your comment, and then I know
Ms. Patterson can speak, you know, for the county, because that's a
big part of our vote today as well.
MR. BURGESS: Sure. As far as we're concerned, and our
board has been very active as well in the conversation, we -- we are
comfortable with where we are on all of those. So we --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I know. But are we?
MR. BURGESS: Is the county?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. BURGESS: I would assume so. I mean, we are here today
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and the documents have been provided. And I know our legal teams
have talked. I believe we're on the complete same page with
everything.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, if Ms. Patterson
says that's exactly right and we are, then this will be a very fast vote.
So -- but you still have the floor, and, ma'am, you know, whoever.
MS. ASHKAR: Yes. Just really quickly, I just want to add, for
the documents -- again, Sally Ashkar, Assistant County Attorney, for
the record. We have finalized all the documents. I think,
Commissioner, what you're referring to maybe is the funding related
to this.
As you know, in the operating agreement, there's not a
maximum spend for funding anywhere listed in here. What you have
in front of you is the pro forma, and that does show a deficit in
funding. We have the naming rights agreement that helps to
compensate that on the back end.
To the extent that there is additional funding required for this
facility, that's for DLC to answer, but in terms of the documents and
in terms of operation, we are all in agreement that these are the
documents that we're working with today that have been published in
your agenda.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Before you leave the podium,
then -- and I'll get to you real quick. Just a question.
The second big issue -- we had the number of beds. The other
big issue was the obligation of the county in terms of the General
Fund going forward. You've answered that, but it was a long time
ago. So can you, again, tell this board what our obligations are in
terms of ongoing funding for this project if it starts to get to a point
where they're losing a lot of money on this.
MS. ASHKAR: The county is only responsible for the
construction of the facility. We are not responsible for operation of
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the facility. There is a provision in the contract that allows DLC to
approach the Board should they request additional deficit funding,
and the Board at that time has the option to either approve that
request, approve a reduction in level of service, or we can terminate
the contract. That's one of the terminable events in the contract.
But other than that, the county does not have any responsibility
for operational funding. And DLC, actually, is responsible for the
initial FF&E, the furniture, fixture, and equipment investment and
ongoing placement of FF&E for the term of the lease.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair.
I think it -- the clarification of the existing facility and the new
facility offer up issues with -- further issues with me. As you know, I
haven't been thrilled with this transaction from the beginning. Now,
with the segregation of 78 beds in the existing facility, whatever their
uses are, and 87 beds in the new facility, whatever their uses are, the
management of the expenses associated with your aggregate
operations is -- is difficult for me to wrap my arms around. I see the
potential.
And again, the operating agreement that is here in front of us
says the same thing that you said to me, us, in December. If we have
enough money, we're going to do a good job. If we don't have
enough money, we're going to ask you for more, or we're going to cut
services, reduce the level of service.
MR. BURGESS: Well, can I clarify?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, absolutely.
MR. BURGESS: Well, so -- yeah. So if it -- what we have also
indicated is that we're going to be seeking funding from other
sources, the naming rights being one of those sources. So we're
seeking philanthropic support specifically for that building for the
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furniture, fixture, equipment, for any deficit type of operational delta
that might be there. So that's -- that's a source of potential funding.
And we also have obligated ourselves to try to work with other
community partners that may be willing to step up as well in this
pursuit that we will try to secure resources from. Let's -- the
hospitals and other sources because of it being a community benefit,
and what -- we're taking that responsibility on ourselves to seek that
support as well.
So we've got the community support, we've got the
philanthropic support, on top of all the other efforts that we're going
to try, which would be federal, state sources of funding, leveraging
federal funds. So there's a lot of different pieces to trying to secure
that.
If at the end of all of that we are not able to be completely
successful, that's when we might come before the County
Commission and ask. And then at that point in time, obviously, the
county commissioners have the ability to either support that or not
support that. And if the decision is to not support that, then that's
where we would have to come forward to say, okay, this is what we
look to do.
But that's not our intention, and that's a lot of ifs that go all the
way before that final step.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. And I know it's
a lot of ifs. But again, I personally have to plan for the worst, hope
for the best, and then figure a way to make things happen.
MR. BURGESS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm -- I have expressed
concerns significantly about this, about this facility, about these
operations from the get-go. And I don't mean to belabor the point,
but I'm still stuck on the administration side or the operational side
with the two different facilities, because the operating agreement that
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is here today in front of us solely deals with the new facility. It
doesn't -- I don't see a clear path for us to get there. So I'm -- at some
point -- you know, I have other comments, but, you know, there
again, at some point I do want to make a positive statement here, and
it has to do with our County Manager.
It's not us against you. It's not her against you. This is a -- this
is a community circumstance. And I want to compliment our County
Manager for the efforts. The information that's been provided to us
with very specific truths, if you will, on how, what, when, where, and
how. I just -- I just want to say thank you right now no matter how
this goes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Burgess, do you have anything
else in terms of the presentation, any other participants in the
participation -- in your presentation?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner LoCastro, you
have some questions?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I was just going to make a
statement, and we can chew on it for a bit. And I don't want it to
sound premature if there's more. Let's see if they have more to add.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to move to public
comment pretty quickly here, so let's finish.
MR. BURGESS: The item that was brought to my attention is
just to make sure that you had the updated pro forma that's been
worked on with the county that you have the current numbers
associated with --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Could you give a copy of that to
the Manager, and, Ms. Patterson, could you make copies of that and
get that to us or have somebody make copies?
MR. BURGESS: It's in your backup.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's get some copies of that. It's
May 27, 2025
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just, if there are a bunch of numbers --
MR. BURGESS: Yeah, I believe that -- there's not a bunch of
numbers. It's actually just the bottom-line number, and I'm --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HALL: If it's just the bottom-line number,
we can tell you if we got it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: How many public comments
are there, Troy?
MR. MILLER: We have eight registered speakers.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So, Mr. Chair, if I can just
say --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You know, and you've always
said, and we all agree, we want to hear from the public comment. I'm
just going to throw this out there. You know, you always say you can
count noses, you know, sometimes, and there are some concerns up
here.
One thing I would say is, you know, I don't want to see a rush to
judgment in a negative way because we're sort of stalling on this. I
think there's still room to exhaust every possibility.
On June 3rd, we're having a mental health discussion here which
has nothing to do with this. It's totally separate. But all the right
people are still going to be in this room. And so one of the proposals
I'll make a little prematurely -- but I'll just throw it out there for the
commissioners to think about -- so we have that chance to talk about
everything we're going to talk about mental health, but then if we
wanted to switch gears and take a lunch break, and then before
everybody goes home, dive into this a little bit, we have that
possibility, I believe. I'd asked our County Manager if that was
possible, and she said it was.
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And then our next meeting is on June 10th. So we have sort of
two bites at the apple if we don't feel like we've gotten all the answers
that we're exhausting today. And so, you know, my premature
thought would be we continue this to June 10th. It gives us June 3rd
to talk about it a bit, it gives until June 10th to have everybody meet
with us separately if they want to, you know, your board members,
everybody that's involved, Father Orsi, our County Managers and
whatnot.
And then, you know, if by the 10th we can't get three votes,
then, I mean, we all know the importance of a central receiving
facility. But as we've all said before, it doesn't have to go on the
DLC site. I personally believe it's the site that makes the most sense
by a billion miles. But if we can't come to an agreement on the pro
forma, the naming rights, the money, how many beds we're really
getting and what it costs, then, I mean, you know, we've got to move
forward somewhere, because we want -- this facility is going to
happen somewhere.
So I don't want to jump ahead of the public comments, but I
think -- I think we know what we're going to hear in the public
comments, and I think it's things that we know. But I also think it
will add to the discussion, but I think we have a chance here to not
jump into something quickly here and ask for a quick vote when it's
obvious to me that there's still some unanswered questions here that
we could use the next two times we meet and all the time in between
to solve. So it's just a thought. I'm not making a motion, but that
would be my motion if it was time, but I think the public comment is
probably next.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, as I said, we have eight
registered speakers here. Your first speaker is Father Michael Orsi,
and he'll be followed by Julie Schmelzle. I'm reticent to start the
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timer on the first speaker.
FATHER ORSI: I jumped from last speaker to first speaker
because I have a funeral at 12 o'clock, and there's no reason for two
people to be late, me and the deceased.
I want to, first of all, say I know each and every one of you.
You are all very, very good men, you have very, very good hearts,
and I know that you are concerned for the community.
I tend to agree with Mr. LoCastro. It doesn't seem that we are
ready to make a good decision today. I know my friends at David
Lawrence might be shocked that I'm saying this, but I want all of us
to win, and this can be a win-win situation.
As I told you before, believe it or not, God does speak to me.
This proposal is the right thing to do for our community. I know
you're concerned about your campaign promises. You're worried
about the taxes, and what are the constituents of our different districts
going to think about what we are going to do with this central
receiving center?
The fact of the matter is it is the right thing to do. Is it the right
time now at this moment? Maybe not at this moment, but it's the
right thing to do.
As Commissioner LoCastro said, there are going to be two other
attempts to take a bite out of the apple. When we come to that
juncture, there is only one right thing to do, and that is to approve this
project. God's children are suffering in our community. In a
community like ours, there's no reason for this. These are the poorest
of the poor, and David Lawrence is offering a solution.
I know that Commissioner Hall and I have had our discussions,
and he is struggling to come to a good decision. And, Chris, you will
come to a good decision, I know that. I know your heart. I know the
hearts of all of you.
So I'm going to propose that we maybe take another bite out of
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the apple. Get some clarification, but it can go no further. Build it,
and they will come. And not to act is to act. And so I'm willing to
wait, but I hope that you will pray very hard over the decision that
you're going to make. And God has spoken very clearly: This
project must go forward.
God bless you. Amen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal, was it the
next meeting that -- you may not be at the next meeting?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, no, no, no. That's that
June 24th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, that's --
MR. MILLER: Your next public comment is Julie Schmelzle.
She'll be followed by Caitlin George.
A couple things: I want to ask the speakers to queue up at both
podiums to move this along. Also remind speakers you have three
minutes, and you'll get a single beep at 30 seconds to go.
Julie.
MS. SCHMELZLE: Yes. Good morning. For the record, Julie
Schmelzle. My role today is really as a community leader but also as
a business leader.
And first of all, I want to -- sitting here for two hours, and the
numbers, I have to go to my office and work on some numbers this
afternoon.
But I do want to commend all of you for the very thoughtful
questions, the clarification that is necessary when it comes to
spending public funds, those public funds for this intake facility
voted on by the voters to spend for this very important project. And I
don't want to lose sight that that is an additional need or support of a
need for this community in terms of mental health.
You have an exceptional partner here in David Lawrence that's
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been taking care of our community for 50-some years. It is now
incumbent on all of us given the growth of our community, the
complexity of our community, and what is continuing to evolve
around mental health, whether it's our children or our adults. We
need to take this as an opportunity to move along.
You know, the numbers -- the numbers don't lie in terms of -- I
think it's been a decade that we started dreaming or talking about this
intake facility and what that would mean for this community. We
voted on it as a community as a top priority both for our community
and for our business community, which I will speak to.
I know that this is a challenge, and the devil is in the details,
truly. It does sound as though within this operating
agreement -- Commissioner McDaniel, I don't necessarily disagree
with you on this -- we're so close. Let's take this over the finish line.
I am fully in support of -- whether I come back another date
soon or we come to a conclusion today, but I do want to thank all of
you for your thoughtfulness. The time is now. We've got to get this
done. The need is not going away. The combined -- you know, we
talk about 87 beds being the new and that being borne by the
taxpayers, yet you have a community partner here in David Lawrence
that you've got combined impact all wanting to do the right thing for
our community in supporting mental health.
So thank you very much for today, and God speed to you all.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Caitlin George, and she
will be followed by Amanda Pearson.
MS. GEORGE: Good morning. My name is Caitlin George,
NCH administrative director for all of NCH's emergency departments
and Marco Island Urgent Care.
Thank you all, County Commissioners. We greatly value and
respect your concerns regarding how many beds are going to be
added at David Lawrence Center. The long and short of it is they're
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going to add 87 beds minus the 30 that they're moving over. That's
increasing 57 beds, which is almost doubling their current capacity.
So I'm here to explain to our taxpayers what their return on
investment's going to look like. It's doubling the capacity of our
mental health resource beds here in Collier County, which means
improved timely access to mental health resources and care and also
what that means for them when they visit our NCH emergency
departments: Improved access to medical treatment in the emergency
department.
As a certified emergency nurse of 20 years who has worked
across the country in numerous emergency departments in cities such
as Seattle, Denver, and Detroit and right here in Naples, Florida, I
have witnessed first hand the national and local challenges that we
face with overcrowding in the ER, longer boarding hours, higher
acuity patient cases, and an increase in psychiatric and behavioral
health emergencies visiting our ERs every day.
I want to talk about a major community need that impacts not
just patients and healthcare workers but our entire NCH organization,
the urgent need for a dedicated central receiving facility in our
community. At NCH, we deeply believe that every individual should
receive compassionate, timely, and appropriate healthcare, especially
those experiencing a mental health crisis.
Emergency rooms are not mental health facilities. They're for
patients experiencing -- and they're not for patients experiencing a
mental health crisis. They should be evaluated and stabilized at our
community behavioral health central receiving facility at David
Lawrence Center.
Individuals that are experiencing suicidal thoughts, depression,
psychosis are often left to wait for hours or even days in our ERs
waiting for specialized behavioral health treatment and evaluation
because there are not enough mental health beds available.
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Supporting the central receiving facility will expedite timely
patient care, reduce wait times, boarding hours, and improve care.
On behalf of NCH, we strongly support the addition of the central
receiving facility to support our community behavioral healthcare
needs. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kimberly Dye, and she'll
be followed by Garrett Beyrent.
MS. DYE: Kimberly Dye, but I am here to put into the record a
letter from our founder, Polly Keller, who's with us today, but she has
vision issues, so she's asked me to read the letter officially.
Dear Chairman Saunders and the Collier County Board of
County Commissioners, I'm writing to you today to ask that you
approve the contract with David Lawrence Centers for Behavioral
Health for the Collier County Behavioral Health Center. As an
advocate, volunteer, and supporter of David Lawrence Centers for
nearly 60 years, I know that this center is critical to the long-term
health and success of this community that we all love.
Collier County has grown significantly since the center was
founded by a small group of citizens in 1968, and with that growth
has come a greater need for mental and behavioral healthcare for
children, families, adults, and seniors.
For more than 55 years, David Lawrence Centers has been there
to answer the call of our neighbors in need. In 2024, more than 8,700
children and adults received care through programs offered at DLC.
The heartbreaking reality, though, is that so many more people
in our community need access to the lifesaving and life-changing
services. Last year alone, nearly 1,400 adults were admitted into
DLC's crisis stabilization unit for immediate crisis care. The Collier
County Behavioral Health Center will allow more adults to receive
emergency care each year, tripling the number of adults DLC can
serve in crisis, such as adults requiring in-patient care through the
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Baker Act or Marchman Act.
It will be a place where seniors with Medicare can seek
in-patient care, a rarity in Southwest Florida. Right now Collier
County is in the biggest mental health crisis it's ever been in.
Imagine the difference this new center will have in this community.
I dream that one day the need for compassionate mental health
and substance use services isn't as great as it is today, but until then,
my dream is that we can meet the needs of our families, our friends,
and our neighbors.
I urge you to approve the contract with David Lawrence Centers
for the Collier County Behavioral Health Center. Your support will
bring my dream and the dream of so many in our community one step
closer to reality.
Thank you for your continued commitment to Collier County.
Polly Keller.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Garrett Beyrent, and he
will be followed by Dudley Goodlette.
MR. BEYRENT: For the record, Garrett F.X. Beyrent. FX is
Francis Xavier. That's a Catholic orientation.
Fifty-six years ago -- believe it or not, 56 years ago, I was
summoned to the south end of Gordon Drive by a guy named
Douglas Bathey. He was trying to sell me a piece of property that I
wasn't that crazy about buying on the East Trail. Now, Douglas
Bathey was married to Mercy Bathey, and the piece of property they
wanted to sell me, now -- oddly enough, is now named after Donna
Fiala. It's a state park -- or it's a county park.
Long and short was, that was not where he was going to build
the facility that we know as the David Lawrence Center. Now, David
Lawrence was a kid. He was actually Douglas and Mercy Bathey's
stepson, and he was 16 years old, and he slit his wrists, and he died.
May 27, 2025
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And his father, Douglas Bathey, decided that with his money -- and
he was a little short of cash at the time, he wanted to build a facility
and name it after his son, the David Lawrence Center.
So I was in a position where I wasn't that crazy about buying the
property he wanted to sell me because it was right next to Naples
Manor, and it was a good -- it was 143 acres. And I thought, well,
why don't you build your facility on that site?
And he said, "No, I picked out a different site to build the David
Lawrence Center on," and that's the center -- that's where it is now.
And the amount of money that was transferred was only going
to buy that piece of property, the original site and -- to build his little
facility, and he went ahead and did that.
And that was 56 years ago I was in his house. His house was on
the south end of Gordon Drive. And oddly enough, I was sitting in
his living room, and he was a big, tall guy, but his ceilings were only
eight feet high. His living room was, like, 40 feet long, and, of
course, his view was the Gulf of Mexico.
And he said to his wife, "Mercy, would you get Mr. Beyrent a
glass of iced tea?"
And alls I could think of was I was sitting there buying a piece
of property I really wasn't that crazy about from a guy that decided
that in the end of his life -- he was an older guy.
He said -- he said, "I was going to build this facility because I
lost my son." And that's something you don't want to ever do. You
don't want to lose any of your kids.
And it was sad, but, you know, I sat there thinking -- I was
looking at the ceiling, saying, "How could you build a mansion on
the beach and have an 8-foot-high ceiling?" That's all I could think
about. I wasn't even thinking about his 16-year-old son who slit his
wrists and died. I'm a different person today.
Thank you.
May 27, 2025
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MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dudley Goodlette, and he
will be followed by Andy -- is this Solis?
Mr. Goodlette has been ceded three additional minutes from
Amanda Pearson.
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be short.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's easy to say.
MR. GOODLETTE: First of all, I was distributed a letter from
Garrett Richter who was not able to be here today but asked that I
come and present his letter to you, and I'm pleased -- and a pleasure
to do so.
Dear Collier County Commissioners, I regret that I am out of
town and not able to speak in person at this Board of County
Commissioners meeting. If I were town -- I'm sorry. If I were in
town, I would address the Board in great favor of the operating
agreement.
The DLC receiving facility was the reason I cast my vote in
favor of the 1 percent sales tax initiative which narrowly passed in
2018. As you're all aware, DLC addresses the critic -- critical needs
of our community regarding mental health issues. These issues are
tremendous, and they are growing. David Lawrence Center is
extremely meaningful and is severely underfunded by both Medicaid
and our state, and yet it fights the good fight on a daily basis to
address the mental issues that nobody wants to discuss except in their
prayers.
Why will this facility operate in the red? Because a large
majority of the people that are served at the facility are brought there
by Collier County Sheriff's Office or first responders. They have no
insurance, they have no money, nonetheless they receive high-quality
attention from the professionals at the center.
Medicaid reimbursements -- reimburses a small fraction of that
cost while those without Medicaid and insurance pay even less or
May 27, 2025
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nothing at all.
While the cost of this project was increased over the years, we
were fortunate to enter into a maximum price construction agreement
with the builder. Your vote to approve the operating agreement and
begin construction will enable us to move forward without facing
more severe construction increases if that contract expires.
I ask that you vote in favor of the operating agreement in order
to continue the effective partnership we have with Collier County to
meet the increasing needs of our community.
Garrett Richter.
And I -- we fully endorse that, but I don't want to read it again
and say that's been my opinion. So thank you very much,
Mr. Chairman and members.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final registered speaker for this item is
Andy Solis.
MR. SOLIS: For the record, Andy Solis. It's good to be here
and see you all --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, it's not.
MR. SOLIS: -- and I don't envy you -- I don't envy you --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Sir, can you speak up a little
bit, please, into the microphone? Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did we swear him in? Are
you sworn in on that? There you go.
MR. SOLIS: I do not envy your job on this. It's been a long and
difficult journey, I know. When it started in 2016, you know, the
intent was to increase the county's capacity to service the residents
suffering from mental health and addiction. And yes, I'm -- I'm in
recovery. I don't practice law anymore, so I'm in recovery --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Look at you.
MR. SOLIS: -- and I went to law school because I wasn't good
May 27, 2025
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at math.
But the intent was to increase the capacity, not specific
capacities. So sitting in the back, I just want to say that if there are
30 beds currently and 87 are being built and the 30 beds are going to
be remaining after the CRS is built, the net, to me -- and I think I just
heard something else from NCH, but the net is 87 beds for the good
of the community.
And, you know, the one thing I did learn was the permitting of
mental health services is really complicated, and I did not even try to
understand it because it was that complicated. So where the services
will be provided, I think, is probably, in great respect, dictated by the
state and by the licensing.
But this is an 87-bed benefit to the community. It's a game
changer from 30 to what the total of that is. And it's -- I think the
math is simple, and the issue's simple.
And thank you for doing the heavy lifting and fly speccing the
agreements. I mean, I think that's -- you're doing a great job on that,
and that needs to be done, because it is taxpayer funds. But this is a
high priority for the community. It's always been that. And I hope
you support approving the contract today. The community needs it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was our speakers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Doesn't Commissioner Solis
look well-rested? I mean, look at him. I'm envious.
Listen, to keep things moving along and see if -- you know, if
we have the support and then if we don't, then we have the other
options. But I'm of the mindset that a B-plus decision today is better
than an A-plus decision that never comes.
And we need a central receiving facility somewhere. I've been a
May 27, 2025
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strong supporter that the smartest place to put it is DLC. I'm just a
little disappointed that the agreement hasn't come together quicker.
Like I said, I don't feel like we're building the International
Space Station here, but also we're talking big dollars, and nobody
wants to build something that costs a million dollars per bed or lose,
you know, a million dollars a year, although these facilities aren't
supposed to be cash cows. I mean, we're investing in the mental
health of our community, but we also have to make sure we have the
money. And I'm always of the thought that it has to be at least
51 percent good for the community and 49 percent good for David
Lawrence, or even more for the community. Why? Because we're
putting taxpayer dollars among this.
So this can't be we hand you the keys to a facility, and it gives
the impression that it's some big, huge advantage for DLC to move
around beds and do all these things, and in the end it's just costing us
money.
So it has -- this has to be crystal clear, even the amount of beds.
In the last 15 minutes, we just heard two different things about the
beds. I mean, no offense to the NCH person, but you guys have got
to get your story straight. We're either getting 87 beds and the other
beds aren't moving -- they're saying that there's a -- you know,
30 percent of the beds move, and then that means that there's a delta
of less than 87. Somebody better stop saying that or tell us that that's
exactly what's going to happen.
So we've heard from all the speakers. I don't want to cut any of
my commissioners off if they're lit up, but I think I might be the only
one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, you're not.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There's three others.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. But -- okay. Well, you
can say something. But my motion's going to be that we approve
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this. We still have some homework to do and some pencils to
sharpen, but we approve this today. If it fails, we still have, like I
said, a chance to take a few more bites out of the apple. But I think
we're quickly approaching a time where we have to make a command
decision to either move forward with maybe a B-plus decision and
then try to tighten it up down the road or move in a totally different
direction if we have other options.
But my motion will be that we approve this today and then
continue to tighten it up as we would with any deal. But I'll leave
that out there, and obviously, other commissioners have some
comment.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro, on the
motion, just so there's some clarity -- because I will second the
motion, but I need to understand what it is. And I would ask Sally
Ashkar to come up to the podium.
To move this along today, what are the terms of a motion that
needs to be approved, assuming that we're going to move forward?
MS. ASHKAR: You would move to approve the amendment to
the vacant land contract, which is inclusive of the edits to the lease
and the operating agreement. Those are exhibits. And it would be
also the amendment to the naming rights agreement. That was the
agenda item for today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro, is that
your motion?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That's my motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: To get the motion on the floor, I'll
second it.
We have three people lit up. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I wanted to have this meeting today and have some clarity, but I
think I've got more questions than -- now I have -- now than I had
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before we entered the meeting.
And that being said, you know, I know we have the June 10th
meeting is kind of the drop-dead date, because I think I was told that
the contractor has till the 22nd of June. So it's not like if we didn't do
it today, it couldn't happen on the 10th, and then having the workshop
on the 3rd, which sits between the two meetings today and the one on
the 10th.
You know, I just -- I just want to clarify -- and there are a lot of
people coming up here and telling us how we need a mental health
facility. We passed a mental health facility. We did it back in, I want
to say, 2022. This commission, these five people right up here, heard
it for hours and hours, and we passed to build a mental health facility
on that swath of property.
That -- we did that part, and we kept continuing doing that part,
and we got to a ceiling of a maximum payment on construction. You
know, we did that part.
The part that we haven't gotten is the fact that every time we
start looking at the operational contract, the goalpost keeps getting
moved. And it's every time we have to revisit the contract, it's
something new, and it's either diminishing beds or it's these beds are
here, those.
I've got questions like, how many people are you planning on
hiring? How many new employees does David Lawrence plan on
hiring for this new facility? How many employees are already there
that are going to be moved over with the 33 beds that are already
employed by David Lawrence? I don't have any of these answers. I
just have numbers, you know. So these things are just, to me, I think
are still questions that are hanging out there.
And I understand that, you know, the contract's written basically
in our favor. If you go down the road and this doesn't happen the
way it's supposed to happen and all the sugarplums don't line up in
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our dreams and dandelions and all that, we can walk away from it,
and they have an option to buy it. But, you know, that's a steep price
tag at 56, $57 million.
So that's just the way I feel. I think we still have some time to
get some answers or -- you know. So that's my opinion right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.
I -- you know, there may be a record of me supporting this
somewhere along the line. And, again, with -- just for a brief
reiteration, when -- Commissioner Saunders, when you and I became
county commissioners, Collier County didn't have a mental health
plan. I was told that by HHS up in Washington, D.C., in '17, the first
year I was in office. Commissioner Solis, wherever he went -- oh,
there he is in the back. Glad you're recovering by the way, my friend.
MR. SOLIS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The -- he's the one that
grabbed onto it and developed that mental health plan. Mr. Burgess
was the chair of that facility.
I -- there -- and again, most all of you have heard me say out
loud there's little to no rehabilitation that comes with incarceration.
And knowing all those things, the need hasn't ever gone away. David
Lawrence isn't going to go away. Whether we approve this
transaction or not, we're still going to be partners with them. They
still have, I would assume, some rationale of expansion of the
existing facility, rehab somehow, someway whether or not we accept
this transaction as-is or not.
I still feel that the location isn't the right location. It was
referenced in the original study that the mental health stakeholders
committee put together that this location is not the No. 1 choice.
I still feel the operating agreement that's in front of us today is
inadequate. I see performance issues that are nebulous to me with
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regard to how you're going to track it, and so many
people -- 40 percent, 80 percent of the people are going to get
response within seven days. I don't know -- I don't know -- without
beating that horse, I don't see -- I'm not happy with the existing
operating agreement. I see -- I still see inadequacies there.
So having said that -- and I haven't even -- I haven't even gotten
into the CMAR with the contract that we have for a contractor that is
the maximum guaranteed price, and I'm not sure that that can even, in
fact, be attained. So I'm not in support of going -- I haven't been in
support of going forward with this at all. I think -- I think we need to
regroup. Maybe we can regroup a little bit on the June 3rd workshop
when you suggested that we can -- we can talk about this a little bit
more.
But I can't get happy -- I can't get happy with this facility, so I'm
not in support of the motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
So I have a question maybe for County Manager or for County
Attorney. If we approve this operating agreement with the David
Lawrence Center, can this thing be in effect whether we do it in a
new facility that we're going to build or whether we opt to do a
different facility and they are the operator? Is this specifically tied to
the new central receiving facility?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So, you know, the operating
agreement has been thought out, and there are still some things that
are unanswered in it, and it does protect the county, which makes me
feel a little better, but it still implies there's an underlying implication,
even though it says that there's not, that in the future the county could
May 27, 2025
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be behind the eight ball, because none of us want to sit up here and
say, no, we're not going to approve your money because you're in a
deficit and put us in a bad situation, but we would be in a bad
situation.
And I, for one, right there would lead the cause in saying "Nope.
We told you this in the beginning. This is not going to be on the
taxpayers."
Number two, the naming rights. I have no problem with the
naming rights, you know, as far as raising revenue. But they're a
one-time thing. It's a one-time occurrence that you get revenue for
naming rights. However long that money lasts is unimportant, but
that's not an ongoing source of revenue unless it's structured to be
that way.
The finance statement, the money spent to increase the beds, the
funding options of the naming, and several other of these things, it
seems to me like we're trying to squeeze a square peg into a round
hole at this time.
When it all boils down to it, there's 30 beds that exist right now
that are paid for. We're going to spend $56 million and build 87
beds, of which 30 of those are going to be coming over from the
other building. So the net increase is going to be 57, 60 beds,
whatever it is. It's not a net increase of 87 beds for $56 million.
Thirty of them are already existing. If you built 87 beds and nothing
came over, that's a net increase of 87 beds.
So maybe as just some thoughts going forward into the
workshop -- whether we approve this agreement or not, these
thoughts need to be thought about. Maybe we reduce the size of the
asset and make it expandable in the future at the -- at the current
location. Maybe we change the existing facility -- change to an
existing facility that can be modified specifically for the services that
David Lawrence Center provides. Maybe put it on campus or
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somewhere else.
Maybe David Lawrence Center could handle the mental health
aspects of the county needs, which they do very well -- we'll
never -- we're not -- this -- my confidence is there as far as mental
health -- and then partner with other agencies or non-profits that
handle the substance abuse very well, thus being able to utilize
their -- their revenue and let them share in the expenses.
So what I'm thinking right now is I don't think this is a matter of
not "if" but "how." How do we arrive to do something smart for the
taxpayer, to do something that's smart for the community, to do
something that's going to benefit all without just throwing -- throwing
$56 million at the wall and seeing how it sticks, if it sticks.
And like I said, the operating agreement does protect the county,
but I don't want to be put in the situation later to where I'm going to
say no if the ask comes for the taxpayers to support the operations of
it. And I don't want to be in that position, and I would like to see --
My thoughts were, as Mr. Morton was speaking, he said, "I run
a private equity group." If you presented this deal as it stands to the
private equity group, the little glass box would slam shut. No deal.
Because a private equity group is not going to enter into an
investment, regardless of the cause, with their own money with
these -- with this pro forma or with these perceived outcomes.
So I'm all for extending the conversation. I'm not concerned at
all about the timing of anything. This is our 17th meeting. If we get
it done in the 19th meeting, I think it will be okay. But what we want
to do is do something that's correct, do it in good stewardship with
the public money, and ultimately, treat our mental -- our mentally ill
and our people that are in our community with substance abuse with
dignity and a way out, and I think that we are all sharp enough to
come up with those answers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I seconded the motion because I
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wanted to have this conversation. I wanted each one of us to go on
the record and talk in terms of what our concerns are.
I had two big concerns. One was the number -- the net increase
in the number of beds. To me it's clear. It's 87. That has to be
clarified between now and whenever this comes back.
The other issue was the limitation on what the obligation was for
the taxpayers going forward. That was taken care of in the contract.
Everything I wanted in this agreement is in this agreement.
Everything I wanted in the naming agreement is in the agreement.
There's nothing else here that I need. Obviously, there's some
clarification that the Board needs.
I'm going to withdraw my second because I don't want to run the
risk of having a vote today and have it fail. I don't know what the
outcome would be here. I can count two that would be in favor. I
can count two against, and I'm not sure where the other one would be,
and I'm not going to run the risk.
So I'm going to withdraw my motion -- my second to the
motion. That -- unless somebody else wants to second the motion,
the motion fails for a lack of a second, and we'll just have to come
back and deal with this at another date.
But for the record, I withdraw my motion -- my second to the
motion.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I think we accomplished -- I made the motion because I wanted
to, I don't want to say force the hand, but I wanted you to hear the
serious concerns. And you heard -- even Commissioner Saunders
and I, who I made the motion and he seconded it, we've got a few
questions written down here.
So I will modify my motion to make the motion that we
continue this until June 10th, and at the 3rd we have an opportunity
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after we talk about all the concerns of mental health, and that's going
to bring a lot of things to the forefront, to not waste that day, to talk
about some of the other loose ends. But I think on the 10th, you
know, like we've said, maybe there's no timeline, but there kind of is.
And like I said, I'd rather see the B-plus answer that happens
than an A-plus answer that we can -- that we have 27 meetings over.
So the clock's ticking here pretty quick. I'll make the motion that we
continue this till June 10th. And I know all of our doors are open.
And the more commissioners you can get to, the more meat we can
put on the bone, the more clarity you can get, the more support you
can get not only from the five votes up here but from other people on
the county staff that have concerns. I think that's the way to go. So
I'll make a motion that we continue this until June 10th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I will second that motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Motion and second.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll withdraw my comments
since we're moving off to the 10th. My -- I'll withdraw.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. In terms of this being
continued until the 10th, obviously, we're going to need a
time-certain again.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I want to thank everyone that
participated. I think it was a good discussion. I'm a little frustrated
because I think it -- to me a lot of these issues were clear, but they
became somewhat muddied. I think the folks that are in support of
this, you have a couple weeks to clarify these issues, in particular the
number of beds that are going to be added because of this facility. I
think that that's critical.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a --
May 27, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: After you're done.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel,
then we'll wrap up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Since you're -- since you're
reiterating concerns, delineation on the operating agreement between
the two different facilities, between the new facility and the existing
facility, and the expansion of the beds within the existing facility and
the operating costs associated with that and the segregation is going
to be imperative for me to get -- for me to move into some kind of
place where I could live with it.
It's -- I don't -- I don't see, with the current operating agreement
that was presented to us today that you wanted to approve, we're not
obligated to pay any more, but there's a doubling-plus of the beds that
are going into the existing facility, and we're not going to be asked to
come back and support the existing financing that we have in there.
So if we're reiterating concerns, that's something that I want to -- I
want to see tightened up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So this will be continued
until June 9; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: June 10th.
MS. PATTERSON: June 10th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: June 10th, I'm sorry.
MS. PATTERSON: We will add a line to the workshop when
we print that agenda to allow for some open discussion of this item if
there's any questions or if there's anything else that the
Board -- comes to mind. It won't be an action item because it's a
workshop, but it will allow some more dialogue as it might evolve to
in that -- on June 3rd.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I would urge -- and I know
everybody will do this, but I would urge, if you have specific
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questions, let's get them to Scott Burgess and to the team there and
try to get answers between now and the 10th.
With that, we will --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I add something,
Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Something I think,
Ms. Patterson, that would be very helpful on the 3rd and definitely on
the 10th, and we didn't have it at this meeting, whenever we vote on
construction or an apartment building or what have you, we always
have somebody from the county staff that comes up and doesn't tell
us how to vote but gives us sort of the pluses and minuses and gives
us a recommendation. Everyone seems to be sort of staying away
from that. You know, we've heard from different county staff
members in private in our offices, but no one seems to want to come
up to the podium and say, "Wow, we really knocked this out. We
have two things that are loose but nothing that we think, you know,
should disapprove this, so our recommendation is A, B, C, D, and E."
I think the reason the county staff as a whole hasn't said that is
there are still some disconnects. On the 10th, me personally, if I
don't hear something from a senior leader on the county staff saying,
"Wow, some of the things two weeks ago that you were worried
about, we're really close." Something definitive. We get that for
some of the smallest decisions we make here. This is a huge one. So
I would -- you know, I would hope that would be part of the
discussion on the 3rd and definitely part of the puzzle on the 10th.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We will be in recess
until 1 o'clock.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
May 27, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen,
if you'll please take your seats, we're going to reconvene the meeting.
Ms. Patterson.
Item #10A
AN AMENDMENT TO THE TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX
ORDINANCE NO. 2017-53 TO IMPOSE AN ADDITIONAL ONE
PERCENT TAX AS A HIGH IMPACT TOURISM DESTINATION
FOR A TOTAL SIX PERCENT TAX, AND TO PROVIDE
DIRECTION TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND STAFF TO
START THE PROCESS FOR THE AMENDMENT AND
REQUIRED REFERENDUM - DIRECTION FOR THE COUNTY
ATTORNEY TO PROCEED WITH REFERENDUM LANGUAGE
AND ANY QUESTIONS FROM BOARD MEMBERS ARE TO BE
SENT TO THE COUNTY MANAGER – CONSENSUS
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
This brings us to our 1 o'clock time-certain. This is Item 10A.
It's a recommendation that the Board discuss whether it wishes to
consider an amendment to the Tourist Development Tax Ordinance
No. 2017-53 to impose an additional 1 percent tax as a high impact
tourism destination for a total of 6 percent tax and to provide
direction to the county and staff to start the process for the
amendment and required referendum.
This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Just so the Board knows, I'm not asking the Board today to vote
on any tax increases or the tourist tax, but I did want to bring this
issue up and get into a discussion of the Paradise Coast park and what
I think would need to be done if the Board moves in the direction to
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complete that park. And I'm -- the purpose today is to make a case
for, yes, we need to complete that park, and here is a mechanism by
which we can accomplish that.
So it's been no secret I've been a champion of wanting to
complete this park. We've had cost overruns, supply chain problems,
COVID problems, contract problems. No question a lot of mistakes
were made as this project evolved from the very beginning.
I like to blame our then-staff for all of that. They're not here
right now, so that's good news.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Or you can blame me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I can blame Commissioner
McDaniel as well. I want to blame somebody.
But we've learned a lot of lessons. And we have what I believe
to be a real gem of a park. It's just not finished. And I think what I
want to do today is make the case for why we should finish it, and
here is a potential way to do it.
And I've got a lot of folks that I've been meeting with for the last
couple months or so. Every couple weeks I would get a stakeholder
group together, and we would talk about the needs out there and the
approach to getting this done as long as the Board understands and
agrees that it's worth doing.
I want to read a paragraph in a letter that really has gotten me
thinking a lot, and I think this is something that all of us need to
really focus on.
This Paradise Coast park is not just a sports park for FC Naples
and for the sporting events that Adrian Moses is able to attract to this
thing. It's a whole lot more than that. It is a community. It's a
regional park. And the tourists are paying the vast bulk of that cost.
To put that in perspective, Commissioner McDaniel out in -- out in
District 5 with the Big Corkscrew park, I don't know the exact
amount that that park's going to ultimately cost, but I'm going to
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guess by the time it's finished, if there's a field house out there, for
example, you're probably going to be talking about a $150 million
park by the time --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus/minus. It is 150-.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And so when you look at
Paradise Coast park and you think, okay, we're going to wind up
spending 150-, $170 million on that park, it sounds like a tremendous
amount, and it really is, but it's more than just a facility for FC
Naples. It's a facility for our community.
And this is one thing I think that really highlights it. This is a
letter from a gentleman, Kenny Rogers. Not the real Kenny Rogers,
but a Kenny Rogers, and it's talking about the summer closing of the
North Collier County Veterans softball fields, and it says, "Collier
County Softball provides year-round play every Tuesday and
Thursday mornings for area seniors. For the past 35 years, our
organization has provided softball at either Veterans or North Collier
Park for hundreds of members. I am one of the members, and I live
in Naples and Collier County."
And then he goes about saying, "We have been told all county
fields are closing for June, July, and August."
Now, our staff accommodated this particular group by keeping a
field open for a couple of weeks in June to accommodate this team.
But other than that, all of our fields, all of our grass fields are shut
down June, July, and August. There are a couple other fields that are
not grass fields that can be played on, but our fields shut down.
So we have our entire community without baseball fields,
softball fields, and the ability to play those sports June, July, and
August. That's when our kids are out of school. That's when the
families need things to do.
And the one thing that I've wanted to emphasize from the very
beginning is that this Paradise Coast park will provide those facilities,
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not just for our sporting events that are attracting different types of
groups, but for our kids and for our families, and I think all of us
have witnessed at least one of the FC soccer matches where you get
4,000 to 4,500 people out there. Everybody's having a wonderful
time. It is just a wonderful facility. We just need to finish it, in my
view.
And so we were all up in Tallahassee -- up in Washington
meeting with our senators and congressmen, and Senator Scott came
into our meeting, and the very first thing he said was -- to this group,
and I was very pleased that he said this. He walks in and he says, "I
just took my grandson to a soccer match at Paradise Coast park," and
he said, "I hope you guys are going to finish that park. It needs to be
finished."
And so I'm sitting there thinking, "Well, I couldn't have said it
better," that we really do need to finish this.
And so the question becomes how. And, again, I've been
meeting with the group, and we don't have 40 or $50 million in
tourist tax dollars available for this right now, but we do have the
ability to levy a sixth-penny tourist tax.
So I asked the tourism industry if they would take a look at what
we're trying to accomplish, what I'm trying to accomplish here in
terms of moving this forward, and the response that I've gotten is,
yes, they really feel that this facility needs to be completed, that it is a
tremendous engine for tourism in this community. And with baseball
fields and softball fields, that engine will be running really, really
very smoothly.
They haven't quite gotten to the point where they've said, "Yes,
we want you to levy a sixth-penny tourist tax," but they've gotten to
the point where they've said they will take a look at that and they will
evaluate it. And, of course, that's the only response you could expect,
because it's a big deal.
May 27, 2025
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Now, will a sixth penny -- if we put this out there, would that
affect our tourism industry? I think the bottom line is it wouldn't -- it
would not. There are many counties that have that. I don't think
anyone's going to be looking at going from 5 percent to 6 percent is
going to make a big difference in our tourist industry, but it will make
a huge difference in our ability to be able to attract these teams and to
do things in the offseason.
I want to pull up -- with your permission, I want to pull up -- I
believe I've got a PowerPoint that has been loaded up, and I want to
just spend a few minutes kind of going through this. Now, these are
some PowerPoints or some images that came out of the Hunden
report that we all sanctioned probably six months ago. And their
report is still kind of in a draft form, but just -- I have a couple key
elements.
So this first slide, the baseball/softball optimally aligns with
Collier County's off-peak tourism season. Soccer. Turf fields are not
ideal for the summer. Our fields are closed in the summer. And
Mr. Hanrahan can talk about the fact that our fields are closed and
that these turf fields are problematic.
And then the issue of basketball and volleyball in a type of a
field house. And they say that the local demand is strong, but the
peak athletic seasons for indoor sports overlap with soccer.
And I think some folks from the hotel industry will tell us they
don't need a whole lot more room nights in the season. They do need
a whole lot more room nights in the summertime, so that perfectly
overlaps with what I'm presenting this afternoon.
Then it goes on to say, local hotels are overloaded during the
winter months. Local hotels struggle during the summer months.
So on to the next slide, they talk about the recommendations
from Hunden. Eleven dedicated diamonds: softball, five diamonds;
baseball, six diamonds. Now, that may not be the right mix, but at
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least they're telling us this is what they would recommend, at least
initially, and that's something that we should consider if we're going
to continue to finish this park.
Future years, they talk about the indoor field house is something
that should be perhaps in the next phase because of the overlap with
the current season.
Then the next slide just shows preliminarily how they would lay
the fields out. Again, nothing that's cast in concrete.
If you go to the next slide there.
Okay. Were you able to show the slide with the fields? I wasn't
looking up at the time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He skipped past them.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay. Well, not a big deal.
We've all seen the picture of the slides.
And then they have the demand and financial projections.
Scenario 3 is the recommended scenario where they do the fields, and
they talk about the -- Commissioner McDaniel, what the return on
investment would be. Now, that's just dollars. That's not the return
on investment in terms of having these facilities available for our
families and our kids along with our other regional parks.
The next slide just shows the seasonality of the room-night
generation from the different scenarios. In Scenario 3, you can tell
that there's the most room generation in May, June, and July of the
other scenarios, and that's the baseball and softball fields.
And finally, the last slide is just kind of a summary of that,
again, indicating that their recommendation would be to go with -- if
there's going to be a completion of this park, that the next phase be
the nine or so fields so we can increase our summer sports.
So I got to looking at okay, well, if we do want to build these
fields, we're talking 40-, $50 million, maybe even a little more over a
period of years to do this. How could we possibly do it? And we
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don't have the ad valorem taxes for this. We don't have enough park
impact fees to do this because we have lots of park issues to deal
with.
To my way of thinking, there's only one way we can do this.
And I think that if we go in that direction, which would be the
increase in the tourist tax, I think that the citizens would approve it.
So what's the procedure? The procedure to go with a tourist tax
would be this board evaluating it, simple majority vote to put it on the
ballot in June of next year. Ballot language would have to be
submitted to the Supervisor of Elections, and there would be a
general election in November 2026.
It sounds like a long time away from now, but it really is not
because once we make a decision -- and I wouldn't anticipate
necessarily making a final decision until probably the fall. But once
a final decision is made to move forward with that type of a tax levy,
there has to be a program to get the voters to accept it.
Now, the county cannot spend any money at all promoting or
arguing against a constitutional -- or an amendment that's on the
ballot; however, we can ask the Chamber of Commerce and the
tourism folks to help wage a campaign and, of course, we can do our
own -- our own thing.
So what I want to do today -- we've got a lot of people that are
going to explain why this is something that needs to be considered. I
thought, with your indulgence -- and I see that, Commissioner
McDaniel, you're lit up. If I could just proceed for another minute or
two.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Finish off, and then I'll go, sir.
You're the Chair.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I think first James
Hanrahan was going to tell us a little bit about why we need more
fields in the summertime. And is James still out here?
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MR. HANRAHAN: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, James, come on up.
And, Mr. Moreno, I'm going to ask you to be next, if you would,
and tell us a little bit about how you see the community need; not just
the FC Naples, but the community need for these fields.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I go before them?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you don't mind.
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ostensibly, Commissioner
Saunders, I'm in support of bringing this initiative forward, but there
are some questions that I have. And I'd like our staff and the folks,
everybody to hear where my concerns are.
There's a lot of history here. You and I are the only two board
members that brought this forward. I was the one that made the
motion to discontinue negotiations with the Atlanta Braves for that
facility and then made the motion to have this facility constructed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And just so -- for the record,
because it's important, the issue with the Atlanta Braves, if I'm saying
that right, that was a prior board --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- back in 20 -- I guess -- 15.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Fifteen, '16.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: They were in negotiations to bring
a professional franchise down here. Our very first meeting it was on
the agenda for us, and it was a unanimous vote to not move forward
with that because the understanding and belief was if you want to
watch professional baseball, you can drive 30 minutes up town, and
there it is, but we needed this type of facility for tourism and for our
families.
May 27, 2025
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. And then the
estimation of the expenses associated with this park were direly
underestimated to us. I mean, when I say "direly," I think, if I recall,
they were representing this facility to be constructed at 60 -- no more
than $80 million was the estimated expense.
I need to know where we're at now, how much we have
expensed out so far as we go forward here. I need to know what the
TPC for the proposed expansion of this facility is. Total project cost,
that's what TPC stands for, with regard to the baseball fields and the
field house.
One of the representations that instigated me to support the
Paradise Coast park was there was an 80,000-square-foot indoor
stadium being built inside what I called the damn dam of I-75;
80,000-square-foot Cat 5 stadium to be built on this facility in
Phase 1. And then all of a sudden the phases got changed. We went
to a Phase 0, and the field house gets moved out to Phase 4 or 5, and
here we sit today without an 80,000-square-foot evacuation facility
for all of our residents, especially with the last two hurricanes and the
tidal surge events that we've experienced. We don't have the capacity
to, really well, I should -- we have the capacity, but not as well as if
we had that field house, in fact, constructed.
And so -- and then the last question or statement that I'm going
to make is I need to know what the O&M is, the ongoing
maintenance and operation. Operations and maintenance is what
O&M stands for. I need to know what those operational expenses, in
fact, are. I need to know what we're looking at today with
subsidation [sic] for this facility out of our General Fund both in the
borrowed money that we've utilized to construct it and the O&M that
we currently have, and then with the addition of the ball fields and
the field house, what the additional O&M expenses attributable to
those are.
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Now, last point. You brought up Big Corkscrew Regional Park,
100 -- I think we're at 120- now. We'll be at 150- by the time we're
done building baseball fields and all that out there. The difference
there and here is that's a community park, a regional park. And
really, other than a little bit of field rental that we get from different
clubs and organizations that utilize that facility, we don't have a lot
of -- we certainly don't have the revenue-generating capacity that we
have out of Paradise Coast. Paradise Coast has already proven, with
our current operator, that we have the capacity of really offsetting the
expenses associated with it.
So those are just a couple of questions as we're going forward
with this. If we do decide to do it, I need to have the answers to those
as we go forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think all of us need those
answers, obviously. And like I said, this is preliminary. This is
something -- I want to kind of get the sense of where the Board might
be on something like this, because my goal is to move it forward at
some point.
So, Mr. Hanrahan, in terms of just the overall need, especially in
the summertime when our fields are shut down...
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely. James Hanrahan, interim
director for Parks and Recreation.
I just want to speak specifically to the local play. I know we
have Sports Facilities to talk as far as the tourism.
As Commissioner Saunders mentioned, during the summer,
that's when we do our cross-county closures, which allows -- this is
the best time and allows for us to redo all the fields, which includes
repairing worn areas with sprigging, seeding, sod
replacement/aeration, managing soil compaction.
We work with our partners, our sports partners, both the youth
and the adults, to find out that best schedule. And you're absolutely
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right, it's June through August, June, July and August; that way
they're prepared for the fall. Now, there are some outliers where, as
you mentioned, the senior softball, they like to use the fields, but we
did work it where we looked at the fields and we kind of staggered
which ones could be closed without hurting the process and making
sure that they're all ready, because when you have natural grass, you
want to make sure that the fields can withstand three to four months
of play.
So when you have that closure, you're absolutely right, the
seasons, they shut down. You know, the fields are closed, and
we're -- like, as of right now, Vineyards is the first one that we're
working on.
So having artificial turf fields, if the Commissioners decide to
go that route, would allow play during the summertime, and we could
have both baseball diamonds, softball diamonds available. Because
as of right now, our inventory for parks does not have any artificial
turf for diamonds. We do have four artificial turfs at North Collier,
two at Big Corkscrew, and one at Eagle Lakes of what I call rectangle
fields where you can do soccer, lacrosse, football, those kind of
things.
So if you guys decide to add this to our inventory, it would help
out in the baseball/softball area for sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I also asked Mr. Moreno
if he might have a few words about the -- yeah -- the community use
of these -- of these fields and what he sees is needed out there. He's
out there all the time, I would guess, at this point.
MR. MORENO: My second home, yes. Bob Moreno, CEO FC
Naples. I'm here with Alessandro Martin who works very closely
with me.
The first thing I'll say is I want to just thank all of you guys
again for the support of FC Naples.
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I know Commissioner LoCastro, Commissioner Kowal, you
were out there on Sunday. I'm not sure --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I was out there. I was hiding in the
corner taking some pictures.
MR. MORENO: Taking pictures. It was a very
special -- special night with honoring our fallen heroes. We had a lot
of veterans there and a lot of families there, which was very special
for us.
So as you guys have seen, FC Naples has gotten off to a really
good start on the field, which is exciting, but what I control is the
off-the-field experience, and like Commissioner Saunders was
saying, the amount of families and kids that are coming out to the
park and enjoying themselves is just incredible, right?
When we envisioned this, we always knew that this was going to
be a big part of it, but I personally never imagined all the kids rolling
up and down the hills having fun, not even really paying attention to
what's going on in the field, just having a great time, not looking at
technology, just being themselves, right? It's so hard nowadays to be
present with all the technology and your phone and everything
that -- being at a sports event sort of makes you feel that.
I'm a big-time golfer, and I love playing golf, and to me the
Masters and the fact that they don't allow cell phones in the Masters
is just incredible, right? I don't know if you've seen the pictures that
come out of this past tournament, just everybody focused in the
moment looking at what's going on without looking at their phones.
And that's what you're getting at FC Naples games is people are out
there just enjoying themselves.
So when it comes to expanding the sports park, I'm a huge
supporter, right? I'm the first one out there every day looking at how
the demand is, right? We work in the same office as Adrian's team,
and all we hear are calls of people wanting to reserve fields, and all I
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hear is, "We're booked. We're booked. We're booked," right? And
that's just for soccer. I can't even imagine what it will be for baseball
during the summer.
And then the second piece of this, we talked a lot about grass
fields versus turf fields, right? So in our stadium, we have a turf
field, and it's a great field to play on, and I feel like we have a little
bit of a home field advantage because the field is very, very fast to
play on, and other teams aren't that accustomed to it. Plus, we have a
very fast team. That's the makeup of our team.
But it is challenging, almost impossible, to bring high-level
soccer teams like from the Premier League in England to play and
practice here during their wintertime because it is a turf field.
One of the homeworks that I had was to talk to a couple of
teams, and I have some letters I'm going to send you of teams saying,
"Look, we'd love to come to Naples. We'd love to" -- these are
big-time teams -- "and practice in Naples, but the fact that there's no
grass fields at the sports complex makes it impossible for us to do
that."
So I would just say that's something to consider maybe down the
road. I don't know if it's an additional field or if it's replacing the
current stadium field with grass. I know there's a lot of challenges
that come with that, but I just wanted to mention that.
And the last thing that I'll say is this weekend I stayed -- I stayed
at the Great Wolf Lodge during -- during our game just because it's
right next to the stadium, and while the kids are enjoying the Great
Wolf Lodge and they're loving it, when you're at the pool,
everybody's looking at the stadium saying, "What's over there?
What's over there? What's over there?" Right? So I think just
having more options, more availability, improved food and beverage,
more activities for kids will just grow the sports park both for tourism
but I think, most importantly, for our local kids.
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Alessandro's here with me because I thought it was a good
moment for him. Alessandro was born here, grew up here, and I just
thought it would be good for you to say a few words about what it
would mean to you to have just more availability.
MR. MARTIN: Most definitely.
Mr. Commissioners, thank you, first and foremost, for having us
here. Alessandro Martin, FC Naples.
But more than that, I was born and raised here in Naples, and I
have seen this city and this county grow extremely, extremely fast.
And with growth, that comes a lot of responsibility.
One of those responsibilities is to continue to create outlets for
our local youth. These are places where they can grow, where they
can stay active, and stay out of trouble. Expanding these fields
means more kids outdoors, more kids to -- it creates more
opportunities to build character, discipline, and friendships as well as
keeping them away from bad influences. But sports are more than
just physical spaces. They're tools for development, mentorship, and
community.
As Naples grows, so does the need for places where kids can
play, learn, and feel like they belong. This expansion is an
investment in our community's future, a direct place to keep our
county safer, stronger, and family focused.
Thank you for considering an investment that gives our kids a
better and healthier future. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. We have from -- are
you -- sorry.
MR. MORENO: I just want to say one more thing that I thought
about, which is building it is fantastic, but maintaining it is very
important, right? And I think that that's a big thing to consider. And
I just want to sort of give a shout-out to Jamie French, James
Hanrahan, Jaime Cook, Eric, and the whole parks teams, because
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when they came into the sports park and sort of got their hands on it,
it's completely, completely changed, and I think that that's an
important thing to continue doing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Commissioner Hall, did you have --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
You know, we say that growth pays for growth. I think this is a
great way for tourism to pay for tourism, and -- what have we got to
do to do it?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, that's why I
wanted to get this started, because what we have to do, I think, is
pretty simple. The execution of what we have to do might be a little
tougher, but what we have to do is -- first of all, Chris Lopez is here
from the tourist industry. Maybe this would be an appropriate time
for Chris to come up, and maybe Liz Sanders as well.
Chris has sent us a letter that basically says, "Yes, we should do
improvements and complete the Paradise Coast park." He's not ready
to say his association would support a one-cent tourist tax, but I think
he's probably prepared to say that that would not have a negative
impact on tourism necessarily.
MR. LOPEZ: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I think he's probably prepared
to say that if the Board wants to move in that direction, he will meet
with his association, and we'll see if we can get them to help us do a
campaign. Because, quite frankly, I think it pass -- I think this type
of a campaign passes regardless but -- because we sell it as tourists
paying for some important amenities for us. But it would be nice to
have -- go hand in hand with the business community and the tourism
industry.
So I guess, am I accurate in what I've said in terms of where you
are and where you think the industry might be?
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MR. LOPEZ: Absolutely, Chairman. Thank you.
Yeah, Chris Lopez on behalf of the Florida Restaurant and
Lodging Association.
Commissioners, thank you all so much for your recent support
of tourism as a vital economic driver to this region.
We are absolutely here to support, on behalf of our chapter, the
Collier chapter of the FRLA, to support our friends at the Paradise
Sports -- Coast Sports Complex in finalizing the buildout of what is
already an immensely impressive complex and can only get better.
We've seen the data from Adrian and his team. We believe that
this would be a tremendous tourism driver in our summer months.
You know, even though we've got the brutal heat, it's already here,
summer's already here, these tournaments and these teams still travel
all summer long, come from all over the country, all over the world,
and we think Naples should be their first stop in those summer
games, those ball fields, and expanding the multipurpose field.
So, yes, we are absolutely here, the Chairman's correct. Thank
you for incorporating our members and our organization in some of
these conversations.
We echo what Commissioner McDaniel's kind of brought up;
we would like to see the total project costs at the end of the day and
the maintenance costs for up-keeping this coming out of TDT -- an
increase in any kind of TDT revenue. Being the industry that would
handle the brunt of all this tax and the increase, we are surveying our
partners across the state to recognize comparable markets and
comparable TDT tax percentages, and we're just -- you know, we're
in a see-and-wait phase now on the final Hunden report and the
survey and the final cost analysis, but our organization would, you
know, wholeheartedly really review this. And, you know, if it came
down to it, you know, we would really, really consider, you
know -- you know, being that support that it would need to drive to
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get to the ballot box and things like that.
But, of course, coming from the commissioner's
recommendations and things like that, still some stuff to review. But
again, we're here in full support of finding the right plan and the most
cost effective plan to get the PCSC finally built out.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have three folks here from
Sports Facilities Management. Jason has come all the way -- I'm not
sure where you reside.
MR. CLEMENT: Tampa. Clearwater.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Tampa. And Jack from Tampa.
MR. ADAMS: Clearwater.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And Adrian. Why don't you three
gentlemen come on up for -- I want to thank you for a couple things.
Number one, participating in the meetings I've been having to talk
about this but also for you to be here. And maybe you could each
spend just a minute or two talking about what this could mean.
And in your case, Adrian, a whole lot more than a minute or two
because I think you're the real operator here in terms of getting things
done. But what can you do with these baseball fields, and what
would that mean?
MR. MOSES: Thank you, Commissioner.
Hello, everyone. Adrian Moses, general manager for Sports
Facilities Companies representing for Paradise Coast Sports
Complex.
Thank you for the kind words. Nothing that we've done so far
has been without support of the two gentlemen behind me, the
county, the county staff and, of course, my staff on the ground as
well.
So I think looking back to when we -- when we took
management of this facility in November of '21, those, for a little
history lesson, will recall that our predecessors were operating the
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facility at a huge subsidy to the -- to Collier County. It took -- it took
us just about 18 months to revert that trend by having a robust
schedule booked in with operators that we trusted but also making
changes to how we operated the facility in terms of making it more
efficient.
It was about that time that -- that I introduced the concept of
bringing in a soccer team to supplement the success that we had
predicted was going to come, and I think that is being replicated into
some of the results that we've had recently at the last TDC meeting
reporting record numbers in terms of revenue, efficiencies, and cost
of goods sold and getting into a rhythm with the amount of events
that we're bringing, improving on efficiencies every year with our
expenses.
As that -- as that, we look forward to the potential of baseball
and/or a field house. We are completely confident that we would be
able to continue the trajectory of the growth. Obviously,
starting -- starting at a beginning point, but after two or three years
getting up to that -- that efficiency that -- and that momentum that
we're seeing right now, which is just snowballing and utilizing the
soccer team for what it was brought in for, and that was
supplementing the facility over the summer months, which we're
seeing right now in terms of the return from that.
I do have letters from our partners, which I'll give to the court
reporter to be put on record. These are from five different operators
of respected and successful operators of baseball and softball
tournaments with their support for a facility in Naples. But not only
that, these delve into more detailed operating of how they would use
the fields, so in terms of driving -- driving that economic impact and
those -- that revenue for our tourism industry over the summer.
Lastly, I'd like to point out the fact that the most difficult part of
my job is inconveniencing all of the local programming groups, and I
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mean that because they all ask us for a certain amount of field time,
and the amount of fields that we have, we're unable to -- we're unable
to justify giving everyone exactly what they want. So we end up
having to compromise and inconveniencing everyone equally. I
know that they hate me saying that, but ultimately we're not going to
make a decision of choosing one organization over another, and these
additional fields will allow us to ensure that these individual
organizations, starting with the baseball and softball groups, will
have a fair amount of -- a fair -- more than a fair amount of share of
fields in the community.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I want to ask you one quick
question, because I believe I read in some of your literature that
Paradise Coast is or can be one of the premier amateur sporting
venues in the country. Did I misread that?
MR. MOSES: Well, if you're asking me, it is the premier
sporting facility in the country.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what your literature said,
and I just wanted to hear you say that on the record.
MR. MOSES: Oh, absolutely. That doesn't mean that we rest
on our laurels. I've spoken in front of you guys before saying that we
have a top-tier facility. We need to keep on -- keep on putting our
foot -- foot to the throttle in terms of making sure that we're
continually staying on top of the tree. We were recently recognized
in a poll as the top soccer and lacrosse facility in the country. That
was in a poll of operators and visitors to the facility. And it was
a -- it was a great honor to just be mentioned on that list, but to top it
was good.
But I'm going to pass this on to the court reporter.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can just hand it to
Ms. Patterson.
MR. MOSES: Okay. And I'll pass it on to Jack for more
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comment. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good afternoon.
MR. ADAMS: Good afternoon. Jack Adams from Sports
Facilities Companies.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. ADAMS: I won't -- I won't take a lot of your time restating
some of those things, but I'd like to summarize a couple of them,
because the history is important to what we're suggesting is to going
to happen in the future. When we came aboard, there was a
$1.6 million deficit to the park, operating deficit; not counting what
the county spent on its end, but the operator was in a
$1.6 million -- we said we could -- we said we could get that back to
zero, and we said we could improve on it, and we're heading towards
about a $500,000 surplus this year. Those are dollars that can be
used back for other purposes in the county or for the ongoing
maintenance of the park.
We're suggesting that if you build those baseball fields, that
number is going to be close to $2 million. And the reason we think it
goes up is because the general and administration costs of operating
that park are already being absorbed. We have a staff. We have an
administration building. We have all of the things that you spend one
time to stand up an operation. You have somebody out there
booking. You have somebody selling sponsorships and so on.
So the additional revenue is going to be just revenue minus
costs, and then to your point, Commissioner, the ongoing
maintenance of those fields, too, which we have on our end baked
into the number that I just -- I just gave you.
So we're -- we're from the beginning -- that we -- we did what
we said we could do. We said we would find you a soccer team. We
stood here, and we asked for your permission to negotiate. We think
you're -- we think you're generally really pleased with that outcome.
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So are we.
We're standing here now saying that if you build those baseball
fields, then we'll achieve the results that you're speaking of.
I also want to just talk about the indoor building for a little bit,
because we're for that, too. This is all just about what you want to do
and what you can get done. Both of those things will be very, very
productive.
We can make both of those a net positive, and each one just has
a construction cost that you need to consider, taxpayers need to
consider, but we have several projections we've given you. We can
update those for you as needed, but they will be net operating
positive for Collier County.
MR. CLEMENT: Afternoon. I think the only thing that I'd add
is our gratitude for partnering with you. This isn't our park; it's your
park. We're stewards of it. And whatever you determine is the right
next step, we will be in support of that for sure.
And along the way here, I mean, we work for you. We wear
Collier County lapels when we're here. If you need support or help
dialing in on what those construction costs are going to be, nobody's
developing more youth and amateur sports complexes, artificial
fields, diamonds than we are around the country. So please leverage
us as much as you need, so the right decisions can be made.
The vision for the park isn't turf. It's not brick and mortar. The
vision is for what happens in the park. Facilities are great, but they're
there to facilitate outcomes for the local community to spur economic
growth and local development. We see this happen all over the
country.
And so, again, we're proud of what we've accomplished together
over the last three years. We're grateful for the partnership with
county leadership, and we also know that there's a lot of potential left
there, and we are here humbly to take whatever feedback you have
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and be part of the team as we help that park get to its potential.
So thanks for the time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro, do you
have a question?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No. I was just going to make
a statement if that was the last speaker.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, we've got, I think, probably
two more. It will be quick. I know Liz Sanders is here. I don't know
if -- she's fine. She runs some hotels, and they're looking forward to
having some summer business. And Jay Tusa, I had asked him to
just spend a quick minute talking about how successful this has been.
I think we all -- we all have a good understanding of that, and then
what you think the future could hold if this park was completed.
MR. TUSA: Yeah, happy to be here. Jay Tusa, Tourism
director, for the record.
So I just wanted to chat a little bit about kind of where we are
with our numbers and kind of the importance of summer visitation
and what it means to Collier County, and not just in relation to the
sports complex, but overall. But while we're talking about the sports
complex for this topic, I think it's very relevant.
Just to kind of give some numbers here, so these are last year's
numbers, so I think they're very relevant because they're just a year
ago. But we had January, February, March, so our primary, you
know, peak season months, our average daily rate was $485, and then
our average daily rate for June, July, August was $272. So big
difference there from peak season to kind of the low season. So
obviously, if we can start building up that business in the summer
months, we can raise that ADR and make more money, have more
economic impact.
And then as far as room nights sold, January, March -- February,
March, we had 274,000 room nights, and then for June, July, and
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August, 195,000. So you can see a big difference there on those
room nights.
So, you know, if you can equate this and you can have, you
know, some additional dollars coming in for revenue streams for
beefing up the summer months, that has a total economic impact of
what we see just in our TDT collections, which that's a big, you
know, win for the county in reinvesting those dollars, but then also
the economic impact, what it does for our hotel partners, our dining,
our shopping.
So definitely there's some numbers there that we can certainly
crunch, and that is some stuff that we'll see in the final Hunden report
when that comes back to you. But I just kind of wanted to kind of
give you a little, you know, taste of what we're seeing and what we
could possibly see as a result of the impact on the expansion of this
complex.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need a lot of
analysis as to --
MR. TUSA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- what the -- if we do make this
expenditure, what that means in terms of room nights, and --
MR. TUSA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- sales tax and tourist tax
revenues.
MR. TUSA: And Hunden has all that pro forma. So they sent
us a draft of the report, and that's obviously where you pulled these
slides out of. I'm trying to schedule a meeting with them to go over
the draft, and the Hunden representative was out on vacation last
week, so we're trying to get that meeting scheduled this week or
perhaps beginning of next week at the latest. So we're anxious to get
that done so we can bring that report back to you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Do we have any registered
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speakers? Is that it?
MR. MILLER: Just folks you've already had up, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
First I want to thank Bob and his staff for Sunday and just a
fantastic event that you sponsored. I mean, as a veteran myself -- and
Commissioner Kowal was out there as well -- you hit it out of the
park as far as the proper and professional way to honor veterans and
their families, and it was -- it was repetitive on the big screen, giving
out American flags. And I saw there was a couple of boxes left
afterwards, so you could save those for maybe 4th of July or an
upcoming event. But it was perfect, I mean, sitting there as a veteran
and talking to others. It was noticed and appreciated that you guys
did it perfectly.
Just -- here's a couple things that I'll say. If this is on the agenda
to see if there's an appetite to move forward on this, I think it goes
without saying, but a couple of things that I'll just say just to maybe
give a little bit of a different perspective or an added perspective.
I actually don't think this passes or that we should assume that it
passes regardless, because I think if we do a bunch of things wrong,
which we have done in the past, it could be very confusing to
citizens.
Number one, yeah, the sports park is five star, but citizens also
know that we had big cost overruns and all these other things. And
even just because it's tourist dollars -- so I'll just speak for me. As a
citizen -- it is important where the money comes from, but as a
citizen I'm not one who says, well, it's tourist dollars, so if there's
overruns or they waste the money or they decide to do this or that or
whatever, it doesn't matter.
I want to see a county that can manage the money properly, that
can get the right contractors in, that don't amend their contracts over
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and over and over again. And if it's tourism dollars instead of actual
taxpayer dollars, I look at it as it's county money first.
So some things that I think we'd have to make sure we do
properly this time that I think we learned some lessons from the
sports complex is, first of all, the right kind of marketing campaign
not only as to what we're trying to do and what would it do and, just
as the Chairman was saying, all the right numbers, Jay, showing hotel
days and all that, but also to really make specific -- make it specific
to citizens where the money comes from.
Sometimes we sit here and go, oh, it's tourism dollars. The
average person out there is playing golf or fishing right now. Alls
they hear is that -- you know, I wouldn't be surprised if the front page
of the paper said, "Collier County Commissioners raise taxes to build
baseball fields." Because don't forget -- and I'm -- you know, I'm just
reminding us of stuff we don't [sic] know -- how many people were
frustrated until Commissioner Hall kicked everything in gear on Fun
n Sun [sic]?
Then we sit here and go, "Oh, we want more baseball fields." It
makes it look like we decided it in five minutes.
So we have to be ready for that, and this would be something
that we would want to ensure did get passed easily, exponentially,
quickly with a really big number because we had a great plan, we
explained to citizens what we're doing, what we aren't doing. We
stuck to a budget. We made sure that we did a deep dive and we got
the right people in here.
And, you know, on some of the projects that the county has had
recently and even in the past, we've been burned a few times, and we
have to show that we've educated ourselves and learned from those
mistakes.
So I certainly think, you know, if the question here is do we
have support to do this and move forward, that goes without saying.
May 27, 2025
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But we've got to really get it right, or it will be another one of those
great things that got done but had a whole bunch of sloppiness to it,
and I don't think that's impressive.
You know, the good-news story on the sports complex goes
without saying, the final product looks amazing. But I will tell you,
there's still a percentage out there that go, "Well, it should look
amazing. You spent over a hundred million dollars on it. It took
forever. You did this, that, and the other."
And some of those things are actually not 100 percent correct.
But perception is reality, and you do have some citizens out there that
say, "Wow, you know, I walk by portions of the sports complex, and
they're packed, and then I walk by things that a lot of the money was
spent on that maybe aren't as used as -- utilized as they think."
So, you know, I think we move forward, but let's really make
sure that we have a -- that we're conscious that every citizen out there
doesn't necessarily know the difference between the different pots of
tax money, and sometimes things can run in a certain direction in a
real negative way, and also, we have to make sure that everything
that's brought to this board shows a correct use of those funds with
tight oversight, you know, and minimal cost overruns and how we're
going to manage that.
And then, Jay, of course, your piece proving why this isn't just a
great idea and we want to quote, "finish the park."
I will tell you there's some citizens who think it's finished. And
so if we think that, we have missed opportunity. We've got some
homework assignments to do, and then all of us to help advertise that
and all of as well so that we get the right message out there. But I
think there's great potential out there for sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I brought this up,
obviously, today, as I said, it seems early, but I want to make sure we
do get it right; that's the objective. I wanted to make sure that as we
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move forward, assuming we're going to move forward, that we put
together the right program, that we meet with the right people, and
that we get the public behind what we're trying to accomplish. And I
think today was a good start. I think having representatives of the
industry that would be taxed on this, I think it's really important.
And so I'm pleased that they are here and are supportive at least
at this level. I understand that there's not official support of a
1 percent increase in the TDC, but I think we'll -- I think we'll get
there. I think that they'll recognize that it's in their best interest to do
this.
So nobody's lit up here.
Oh, I'm sorry, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just as -- sitting here doing some
thinking about it, there's got to be a balance between the fields that
we add versus the staff that we have to where you don't add so many
fields you've got to increase your staff. So there's that balance that I
would like to know of.
And, Jason, you mentioned that you-all are good at figuring out
how much the stuff costs to build.
When we get those figures, I would like to throw in two more
years of cost increases so that we have real-life numbers that when
we ever do get there -- and I say that because I want to know if -- if
we're going to do this, if we're going to do it in perpetuity or what the
sunset years are so we can just take the amount of money.
We're going to generate basically 10 million a year on the low
end. That way we can figure out how long we have to do it. And I
don't know about a referendum. I've never been involved with one,
but do you -- can you explain those types of things in the referendum
to the voters?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. This will be a question for
the county, but yes, we can provide information. We can put
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information on our web page that talks about what it is, but we can't
say on the web page, "We encourage you to vote for this." We can
only say, "Here's information concerning this. It will be on the ballot
at a certain time."
We cannot -- and Mr. Klatzkow will have to weigh in on this,
but we cannot spend taxpayer dollars to promote a ballot initiative; is
that fairly accurate?
MR. KLATZKOW: That's very accurate.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So yes, we can provide basic
information at a very low cost.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I add
something -- piggyback on that?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: A lot of times when
something's added to a ballot, though, it doesn't have 12 paragraphs
explaining what it is. So here's what it's going to say: "Do you
approve a 1 percent tax," blah, blah, blah, you know, period. And if
we don't do our homework correctly -- and like you said, it can't be
the county, but there's other organizations out there that have to do
it -- the average citizen who doesn't even know the judges'
names -- you know, they know who they're voting for for president
and senator, maybe their county commissioner, and then they're like,
judges? School board? They'll get to that, and it will -- it will sound
like a tax increase, if they haven't done their homework, and that's
what we want to avoid. So that's why it does take a whole lot of
preparation.
You know, you can get something on the ballot quickly, and
there's times where things get voted for or shot down, and afterward
when it's explained, citizens go, "Oh, I didn't know that that's what I
voted for."
And when you see 1 percent tax, the average person doesn't
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understand TDC. They don't understand this. And it's like, "Oh,
those commissioners."
So that's where -- you know, there's things that we can do at the
county, but there's also things we can't, so that's where I think we'd
really have to be relying on the folks that are in this audience and
others who aren't here. Because the way it will be written on the
ballot to somebody who hasn't done any homework at all, and if they
didn't see any of the marketing, they're going to -- there will be a big
percentage to just put "no" because it will just look like a tax increase
to them. So we've got to be mindful of that. So that's it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I like this idea, and I really want to take a deep dive into this and
definitely move in a direction where I feel that -- you know, that's
very important, though. Our taxpayers, our constituents have to
understand that this is a different animal than us raising a tax on them
like it was when we did the surtax for those other projects that we just
talked about, like the mental health facility, where that was an
over -- all board sales tax increase of one penny. So this is -- you
know, this will be restricted to particular specialties, right? Which
will be the parts that are linked to tourist collection of money.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's important that the citizens
understand that. So basically, these are other people -- citizens
paying for it, not our citizens, in a way, even though when they go
out to dinner and stuff they might.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a tax on short-term rentals.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: On short-term rentals.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hotel rooms.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, that would be a good way
to drum up --
May 27, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what it is.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And lots of other stuff.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think moving forward,
understanding these baseball fields, softball fields, and I understand
the dilemma we have now with the ones we have in place is because,
you know, we have to take advantage of the rainy season with these
grass fields to re-seed, get them back to health for the next season,
because that's typically why we shut them down.
Now, I would think AstroTurf fields at this new facility may be
a little bit more at the front, but maybe over the long run they would
be more cost efficient because you wouldn't have the yearly
maintenance on them like you would with the grass fields, and we
wouldn't have to -- we wouldn't have to shut them down. We can use
them all year round. That makes sense.
But I definitely, definitely -- you know, this is -- we're talking
about getting to the point where we raise the money to finish this
project, and I think the project needs to be finished. But I definitely
feel we need to take a deep dive on -- you know, I'm not talking
about phases when we do them or don't do them, but I think a deep
dive when we do get around to building the field house, that I think
there's better options on that property then where they have it
originally located.
I'm kind of goofy like this, but I take my days off, and I walk
around this county, and I walk around that park a lot when I don't let
people know I'm there so they don't know I'm there.
So I walk around. You have those practice fields, which -- and
I've run this by a few people, and they're like, "Oh, my God. We
never thought of that." And you have the practice fields which are
just on the other side of the stadium, or warmup fields, they call
them, I believe, on the map.
May 27, 2025
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I've never seen anybody warm up on them. They're just
fenced-off grass fields, twice the size of the footprint that is on the
other side of the stadium where it could be a parking lot that would
lead directly in the stadium.
And I've run this by a few people that I think that would be a
better location in the future because we could take advantage of the
bigger footprint, we could force multiply the building by using extra
stands, seating, overhanging the grassy seating we have on that side
of the stadium already where we don't have real seating, with extra
boxes built into the building itself to sell suites. Because I know I
went up there Sunday, and all the suites were sold out. And I guess
you probably could have sold out some more suites if you had the
availability to do it for the soccer game Sunday.
And, you know, you don't want to just look at this one-sided,
too. This would -- probably we could make it big enough that this
could be a tri-county evacuation site that would service Broward
County and Fort -- or Miami-Dade if they have to evacuate from the
east to the west. And there may be dollars out there that we could
probably utilize through federal grants possibly. I don't know.
There's people out there that know a lot more than me that may help
build this particular facility, that -- and then you also look at, we don't
always have to host sporting events. I mean, we can host boat shows.
We can host sportsman shows. We can have home shows. We can
have a lot of things inside this facility, let alone a place the soccer
team could practice in inclement weather. You know, things like
that.
But, you know, I don't want to -- I'm always trying to think
outside the box. So I'm thinking, you know, we could make this even
a much, much better place and a destination year round for people to
come and visit and maybe find some other dollars in other ways if we
make this a hurricane-safe facility, so...
May 27, 2025
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you kind of stole my
thunder, but that's okay. I'm listening to what I'm hearing up here,
and I see a general consensus to move forward with this prospect.
My suggestion to our staff is, as we're moving forward with this,
we begin today to solicit both grant funding -- federal, state grant
funding for the evacuation facility for the field house and
philanthropic dollars for contributing to the construction of the
baseball fields, and maybe even to the field house itself.
We're not -- we're not opposed to accepting philanthropic dollars
to assist with naming rights and so on and so forth to assist with this,
which will ultimately lay off a portion of that expense and cut down
on the debt associated with the finalization of this -- of this park.
So I would -- I would like to see us move forward on those
fronts at the same time, because as Commissioner Saunders said,
even though '26 sounds like a long way off, (snapping fingers) it will
be here tomorrow. And so if we begin those efforts now, we'll be
that much further ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So I think there's general
consensus, if not unanimous consensus to move this along.
I'm going to make a couple suggestions. One is that -- we each
have specific questions. I would suggest that we just do an email to
the Manager of what our questions are so that they can start to be
addressed. They range from, what is the real tourist impact? What
are the costs to construct these things? But let's get individuals to
send questions to the manager so she can direct those to the right
people to start getting us the answers to that. Those questions and
those answers are going to be important in any type of a campaign
that we have.
As I said, I personally believe there's only one way we can do
this, and that's that sixth penny. Now, the good news about the sixth
May 27, 2025
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penny is that it will generate about -- almost $10 million a year. I
think it's 9.7 was the projection if it was in place right now.
So over a period of time, there's going to be more money
available. There will be money available to finish the field house,
there will be money available to finish the fields, and over a period of
time there will be money available for beach renourishment and
advertising and a lot of the things that the tourist industry really has
to have.
And the idea that we can rely on federal grants and even state
grants for a lot of this stuff might be fantasy going forward, and so I
think this will help us be prepared to do the things we need to do to
promote tourism and keep it alive in this community, even if those
federal and state grants start to dry up.
There are other projects that all of us have talked about where
we would like to use some tourist tax dollars. City of Naples has
some issues as well. And so this, I think, solves a lot of problems,
and I'm hopeful that the tourist industry will recognize that and will
go along with it.
So in terms of moving this along, I think maybe -- we don't have
a second meeting in July, but we have a first meeting in July, so that's
about a little over a month from now. Maybe we can start to get
some information from our staff as to how this would work, and
perhaps Jay Tusa can provide us some information, along with maybe
some estimations from Sports Facilities Management and start to put
this together, because early in the fall, September, first of October at
the latest, my intention is to come back with a motion to direct staff
to develop the ballot language, which will be fairly quickly -- as a
matter of fact, Mr. Klatzkow, why don't you distribute the ballot
language now so we all know what the ballot says -- but to kick off a
campaign to get this done.
And as it has been said, you know, we're a year and a half away
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from an election, but when you put it all together, it's not as much
time as it seems. So I really appreciate the consideration of the
Board.
Ms. Patterson, do you need any further direction from us, or are
you pretty clear on --
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. We understand the direction. And
if the individual commissioners can provide us any other questions
that they have. We'll get the minutes that we talked about a lot of
that, but as you said, anything else that you want us to be working on
in preparation for July.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Great. If there's nothing
else, we'll move on.
And I want to thank -- I want to thank all of the participants that
came today, especially all of you that came to my office for meetings
every couple weeks for the last six weeks or eight weeks or so.
Again, the goal was to try to find a solution to a problem, and I think
you guys came up with it, so I want to thank you for that.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, before we move on, we got
correspondence from Clerk's minutes and records that they don't have
a record of the Board's vote on 11A.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I make a motion that we
continue 11A. We're still in the meeting, so we can do that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
MS. PATTERSON: It was all in favor?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Maybe just for the record, what
was that item?
MS. PATTERSON: 11A. This is the David Lawrence item.
I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So I think I made the motion.
Commissioner Kowal seconded the motion, if we're going to be
May 27, 2025
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official. What's that?
MS. PATTERSON: We kind of lost track of it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we never said "all in
favor?"
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mercifully, no. All in favor,
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passed unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you for that housecleaning item.
That brings us back to 11C. This is the item that we started
before our time-certains regarding the Camp Keais property. So I see
Trinity coming back up to get started on this one again.
MS. SCOTT: Back into my presentation.
So I believe Commissioner McDaniel was chatting, but
ultimately, where we are is to direct the County Manager to move
forward with preparation of a purchase and sales agreement with the
fair board and also provide direction on the price per acre.
The current market value -- just a reminder, because 9:30 was a
long time ago -- is $20,250 per acre based on recent appraisals that
we have, and the original purchase price was just over 13,000.
And if the Board desires to sell at less than market value, then
we would recommend working with the fair board to include a
May 27, 2025
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reverter provision and deed restriction on the property if it were to
cease operations as fairgrounds for the future.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Are you -- do you, my
colleagues, recall my discussion this morning about where they're
going to go? The previous conversations that I had with them, there
is one proviso that I didn't share this morning.
Unbeknownst to me, our Utilities Department permitted the
current fairgrounds as a wellfield for freshwater supply for the
Northeast Regional wastewater/water facility, so -- and I caught
Dr. George coming through getting ready to punch wells down the
midway where the fair is now.
So we phased those out. And have them set off
in -- don't -- don't --
MR. DeLONY: I'm going to just be here, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just in case I need you?
MR. DeLONY: Go ahead. I'll be here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And so the bottom line
is, the relocation of the fair kind of sort of has to happen.
It would be my preference -- and I will say it out loud. I have
shared with them at the beginning at the board meetings that I'm one
of five. I don't get to make the final decision. I said that I would
recommend that we don't make money off of the fair. We get
taxpayers' money back for the lands that we're going to sell the fair
board and that we would sell this 100 acres at an equivalent price to
what our costs were, plus interest.
And so that would be -- that would be my motion to go forward,
along with staff's recommendation to allow for that reverter clause.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We don't have anybody
else lit up here.
Trinity, do you have anything else to add?
May 27, 2025
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MS. SCOTT: I do not, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything else?
MR. DeLONY: Just for the record, Jim DeLony, interim
department head, Public Utilities.
It's critical for our northeast plant that we continue to plan for
these wells to be in that area. We've laid it out. We've spent money.
We've obtained easements.
In fact, we're going to be in work on a -- here pretty quick in
terms of putting a couple in as part of our interim facilities plan as we
move forward with our northeast service area big plant solution,
which I'm going to come back and speak to you about a couple times
in the next month.
So I would like to accommodate anything that's going to happen
there, obviously, but I don't want the wellfield to be something we
think that is not necessary and needed for this region of the county.
And that's my -- that's the reason I chose to speak to that today, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
Any public comment?
MR. MILLER: We have one registered speaker, Clay Brooker.
MS. PATTERSON: Clay represents the fair board. He had to
leave, but I did let him know that I will circle back with him on
whatever the Board's decision is, and we'll be working with him as
we move forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, I
certainly have no issues at all with not profiting from the fair board as
long as all of our costs are included. And staff and I had some
discussion about the reverter provision, and I assume that that is
in -- that the fair -- the fair board, they're in agreement with that. I
think that's critically important.
MS. SCOTT: I did chat with Mr. Brooker this morning about
that, and this is just to give us direction. We'll work out those details
May 27, 2025
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and bring the actual purchase and sales agreement back to the Board.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right, great. You want to make
a motion?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Did you?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did, but I'll do it again if you
want me to.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No. If you made one and it's clear.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't know -- apparently it
wasn't, because you're asking me if I even made one.
I'd like to make a motion that we proceed forward with --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You know, it's just a memory
issue, you know. That was a long time ago.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You forget one vote and --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion. I
believe we have a second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nobody seconded it yet.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Let me just -- okay. He seconded
it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor, sig- --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just want to make a comment real
quick.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand that we have had
previous discussions with the fairgrounds about selling them for what
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we have in it. And I don't have any problem with that because you've
already told them that, but going forward in the future, what is wrong
with us taking fair market price, offering a 20 percent
discount -- that's 20 percent equity in a spot -- and taking the positive
that we get and applying it to public stuff, maybe saving the
taxpayers money? I'm just asking the question. I mean, is that
taboo? I'm coming from private business. I hate to sell anything that
I bought and -- that I paid for it.
MR. KLATZKOW: This is your property. You can sell it for
whatever you want to, or not.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's not taboo at all.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. I was just curious about that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is just -- these -- you
know, preserving -- preserving the legacy of the swamp buggy, the
fairgrounds, and the Sheriff's Youth Ranch has been a top priority of
mine all along. Both of -- all three of those entities are getting
squeezed with the development, and this acquisition of this piece of
property when Commissioner Saunders and I voted on this
acquisition, it was shown to you that these were the uses that were
allotted on that site. So it -- this is a legacy move for --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- helping those legacies. And
I think your idea, by the way -- if I'm not mistaken -- I'm not going to
say any more right now, but that's a really good idea.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
May 27, 2025
Page 132
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. Thank
you.
Item #9C
RESOLUTION 2025-115: A RESOLUTION PROPOSING AN
AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN, ORDINANCE 89-05, AS AMENDED,
SPECIFICALLY AMENDING THE FUTURE LAND USE
ELEMENT AND FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND MAP SERIES
TO CHANGE THE LAND USE DESIGNATION FROM
AGRICULTURAL / RURAL DESIGNATION, RURAL FRINGE
MIXED USE DISTRICT-SENDING LANDS TO
AGRICULTURAL/RURAL DESIGNATION, AGRICULTURAL /
RURAL MIXED USE DISTRICT, 341 SABAL PALM ROAD
RESIDENTIAL SUBDISTRICT TO ALLOW UP TO 423 OWNER-
OCCUPIED DWELLING UNITS WITH AFFORDABLE
HOUSING AND PROVIDING FOR TRANSMITTAL OF THE
AMENDMENT TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
COMMERCE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ±169.19 ACRES
AND IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF SABAL PALM
ROAD, APPROXIMATELY 1.4 MILES EAST OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD IN SECTION 14, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE
26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (GMPA-
PL20230016340) - RESOLUTION 2025-115: MOTION TO
APPROVE TRANSMITTAL TO THE STATE AND TO INCLUDE
AN ADDITIONAL MILE FOR NOTIFICATION BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
May 27, 2025
Page 133
LOCASTRO – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that takes us back to our
Item 9s, advertised public hearings. 9A and 9B have been continued,
so that brings us to Item 9C. This is a recommendation to approve a
resolution proposing an amendment to the Collier County Growth
Management Plan Ordinance 09-85, as amended, specifically
amending the Future Land Use Element and Future Land Use Map
and Map Series to change the land-use designation from agricultural
rural designation, Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District sending lands, to
agricultural rural designation, agricultural rural mixed-use
District 341 Sabal Palm Road residential subdistrict to allow up to
423 owner-occupied dwelling units with affordable housing and
providing for transmittal of the amendment to the Florida Department
of Commerce.
The subject property is 169.19 acres and is located on the south
side of Sabal Palm Road approximately 1.4 miles east of Collier
Boulevard in Section 14, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier
County, Florida.
With that, ex parte from the Board members, please.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yes, plenty of
communication; emails, phone calls.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I've had emails and
correspondence.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't have any ex parte.
May 27, 2025
Page 134
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Chairman?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm being corrected.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I spoke out of turn, too. I do
have ex parte.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's start all over again.
Commissioner Hall -- Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I do. I had a
correspondence.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner Hall, you've
already --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I had meetings and emails on it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I had meetings and emails as
well.
Commissioner McDaniel, you've already --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir. I had phone calls,
emails, and meetings.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, emails, correspondence.
I mean, when we say "meetings," meetings with county staff, I don't
think -- I think it's above and beyond that. So I just had
correspondence and emails.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We're all set.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have we got to swear them
in?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, actually, this is legislative, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We don't have to do --
MR. YOVANOVICH: But I was happy to hear --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We don't have to do disclosures.
MR. YOVANOVICH: You don't have to do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's why we all said we didn't
have any.
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MR. YOVANOVICH: So that's why.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But it was fun going through the
exercise.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It was. Anyway.
Good afternoon. For the record, Rich Yovanovich on behalf of
the petitioner.
John Rubinton is the representative of the applicant. Mr. Arnold
is our professional planner. Norm Trebilcock is our traffic
consultant, but I believe he has a pinch hitter here today; Gavin is
here. And Tim Hall is our environmental consultant. And -- is JD
here?
MR. ARNOLD: No.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And so what you have before you today
is a proposed Growth Management Plan amendment on the property
that is depicted on your visualizer. It's 169.19 acres. It's an existing
farm operation. It's an orange grove that has been an orange grove
for many, many, many years. It's disturbed lands that is in the Rural
Fringe Mixed-Use District.
As you all are aware, I think it was in 2002 the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District was established in Collier County. There
was -- there were no specific notices provided to any property owners
as part of this process. And candidly, the owner of this property
wasn't paying attention to what was happening when the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District was established. And as a result, this property
was designated as Sending Lands even though it was already
impacted.
And I think your staff will agree, and in my discussions with
your staff, you know, had they paid attention, this would have never
been designated as Sending Lands in the first place as far as staff was
concerned.
What we're seeking to do is to amend the Growth Management
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Plan to establish a -- sorry -- a subdistrict that would allow for the
development of a project that would have both market rate and
for-sale affordable housing units on the property.
We're requesting a density of 2.5 units per acre on this property,
which is consistent -- and I'll show you an exhibit with the density
allowed around it.
The property is, you know, basically less than a half a mile from
the urban boundary. And we'll get into a little bit greater detail, and
Wayne will go through the greater detail the surrounding businesses
in the area. And our goal is to provide for sale, as I mentioned,
affordable housing for people making 120 percent or below in the
median income.
As you're all aware, Habitat is active in the for-sale market, but
they provide for the 80 percent and below income thresholds. There
aren't any affordable projects -- for-sale products in the 120 and
below category, which is, candidly, the incomes that most nurses,
firefighters, police officers would qualify for those incomes. So we
would be the first for-sale affordable housing other than Habitat for
Humanity.
Our proposal would limit -- or provide 15 percent of the
dwelling units for sale, which would be 63 dwelling units, and we'll
show you in the master plan where that would -- where that would be
located on the property.
On the visualizer, this is your urban area. This is the Urban
Residential Fringe. The Urban Residential Fringe allows for two and
a half units per acre. That's exactly what we're asking for on this
property. And as you can see, it's a real -- it's a short distance
between this property and the Urban Residential Fringe. And I said
we were going to create our own subdistrict on this property.
I wanted to point out a couple of things in the -- in the language
that we're proposing. And we have the standard affordable housing
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language in there, that this would be a 30-year commitment for
affordable housing, so that's in the Growth Management Plan
language, and it will also appear in the PUD language if this is
transmitted and come back to the Board of County Commissioners.
As far as usable open space, we're meeting -- the county's
requiring 60 percent. If this were receiving lands for affordable
housing, it would only be a 50 percent open-space requirement, so
we're providing additional open space on this property than what is
required in other areas in the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District.
Tim Hall is going to get into greater detail about the
environmental benefits of this property. But as a highlight, we're
enhancing the water quality. I don't know -- we're enhancing the
hydrology, we're providing wading bird habitat, and we're increasing
the on-site native area because we're going to be creating a flowway
on this property as part of this project.
And this project does not -- did not require it to go to the
environmental -- the EAC because it's not changing, really, any of the
environmental attributes of the Growth Management Plan that would
require us to go to the EAC. It is simply providing for affordable
housing on already impacted lands.
This is an employment map. And I'm going to turn this over to
Wayne in a second because I'm starting to lose my voice, and I don't
know why. But this is an employment map in the area. Physicians
Regional is near by, as well as several other employers in the area.
And as your own staff has indicated -- and you've heard this
many, many, many times -- there's a shortage of affordable housing
in Collier County. There's clearly a shortage of for-sale affordable
housing. And this is language from your staff report that was
provided by Cormac Giblin.
And we've highlighted that 50 percent of the people apparently
in Collier County are cost burdened with their housing, meaning
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they're spending more than 50 percent of their income on housing.
And this will -- it's a small project, but it's a much needed project, as
evidenced by your staff.
Transportation staff has signed off on the impacts of this
proposed project. As Wayne will take you through, we'll be -- we'll
be improving Sabal Palm Road and bringing it up to county standards
from where it currently ends all the way to our project.
And with that, mercifully, I think Wayne takes over from here,
and hopefully I'll get my voice back before I have to get back up
here, unless you have other questions of me before I turn it over to
Wayne.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. ARNOLD: Good afternoon. Wayne Arnold, certified
planner.
I'll walk you through a few things. On the exhibit is our location
exhibit, which Rich had discussed with you previously, but I think
this goes to one of the central issues that we have, and that is it's very
accessible to Collier Boulevard and the central part of Naples
because, as Rich pointed out, you have several large employers who
are within a 10-mile radius of the site, and that's something we've
looked at for other Growth Management Plan amendments and the
employment, especially when we have an affordable housing
component that's associated with them.
So you have an impacted piece of property that has literally zero
environmental value today. And Tim's going to touch on it, but today
you basically have a free-flowing agricultural operation that pumps
off site into the surrounding wetland preserve areas that's essentially
untreated agricultural water. So what happens when we actually do
put urban development on this, it is going to have a good, safe, and
high-quality nutrient-loaded water management system that will treat
that water before it discharges off the site. So there's little ecological
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value there. And Tim will talk about that.
And then, of course, just the fact that we're less than a mile from
the urban boundary on lands that, I think, as Rich mentioned, were
probably mischaracterized. You know, Rich and I came out of the
county government system about the same time as the Rural Fringe
process was happening, and we were retained by a lot of the
developers to work through the process to help identify the
appropriate designation for their property. And I think in this
particular case you had a group of orange groves -- growers who
didn't really probably know of and understand that process because,
typically, lands like this were not designated Sending Lands. Those
are supposed to be your most environmentally sensitive lands, and
this clearly is not.
We have filed a companion PUD rezoning with this
comprehensive amendment. And in this particular process, we're
asking for you to transmit this plan amendment to the state. And
we've filed the companion PUD, and hopefully these come back
together sometime later this fall.
If you transmit, you see what state agencies, if any, have any
comments or questions, and we have an opportunity to resolve any
comments that you-all may have as well.
But on the screen is our PUD master plan that has been under
staff review, and I'll just point out some of the highlights of it.
Again, the project's about 169 acres. We made the commitment that
15 percent of the units were going to be for-sale affordable. So the
project is 100 percent for sale, which I think is unique, if I'm not
mistaken, to anything other than Habitat, as far as I know, with
regard to affordable housing.
So we've identified residential areas which are highlighted by R,
which is throughout a good portion of the site. We have residential;
we have lakes. We also have an area in the northeast corner that will
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have its independent access, but that's where we've identified the
place where these affordable townhome units will be constructed for
sale.
There are two access points to the project, one serving the
townhomes, another central to the site serving the balance of the site.
One of the things that Tim's going to talk to you about, too, is
the fact that we have a large flowway system that will be created that
will take some of the flows of water that shed to the south across
Sabal Palm Road, and we will be cleaning that water and using it as
part of our water management system, enhancing the one small
wetland preserve that is on the site in that location.
There's also going to be a buffer with a fence that separates us
from the environmentally designated areas farther to the east, so you
create this interface between the wildlife that might be using the area
and our development tract. That's something that's handled
throughout parts of your fringe and the NRPAs.
We have standard permitted uses, but you can see from our list
here we have single-family, two-family, and townhouse, and all of
those are for-sale product only. We've also made provisions for the
typical accessory uses, and in our preserves we made standard
language in there for mitigation and nature trails, et cetera.
One of the other public benefits that accrue from here -- right
now if you drive out Sabal Palm Road, and I'm sure most of you
have, you'll see a portion that's near what I still call Winding Cypress
that has a sidewalk constructed on the south side of the road, and then
you've got the hedge. So what we've committed to do is a little bit
farther to the east, you actually have -- the project will pick up from
where the county maintenance currently ends, and that will be
extended across the frontage of our property, and that will include
redoing the surface of the roadway as well as installation of the
sidewalk on one side of the road.
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I don't know if now would be a good time for Tim to come up,
Rich, and maybe go through it. I've got some other, you know,
planning considerations that I can at least put on the record. So
maybe I'll do that before Tim comes up.
So just to talk about some of the other things and to wrap them
up, from a planning perspective we're creating -- you know, it's not
an isolated area. It makes good sense. We're doing some public
benefits. The creation of the natural flowway. We're creating the
wildlife buffers I mentioned. We're going to provide 60 percent open
space on the site. Ninety percent of our vegetation on site will be
preserved. And we're also going to be improving Sabal Palm Road
with the sidewalk. And then we're also going to be installing a
regulated water management system which benefits, obviously, the
public and the environment.
So let me turn it over to Tim and let him -- water/sewer? Oh, we
will, obviously, be providing water and sewer, so we'll be expanding
Sabal Palm Road to include water and sewer, yeah.
Thank you, Rich.
With that, Tim, if you want to maybe come up and run through
your --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a quick question.
Wayne --
MR. ARNOLD: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- before you go. Did
you -- did -- I didn't see you express much of the improvements to
Sabal Palm Road unless that was included in that first site plan.
MR. ARNOLD: It's not included in the site plan. We have a
commitment that's in the actual PUD document that ties us to that
exhibit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. HALL: Good afternoon Commissioners, Tim Hall with
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Turrell, Hall & Associates.
I was asked to provide kind of an environmental summary for
the changes in the project over what it is currently as an active orange
grove, agricultural operation, versus the potential impacts that might
be associated with the change to development.
And so there's a list here on the screen in front of you. One of
the things is the ability to create better water quality for the
surrounding preserve and conservation areas outside of the project
footprint. As Wayne had said, the current use on the property, the
agricultural is under rules that were in effect several decades ago, so
the unrestricted pumping that they have to keep the groves hydrated
correctly allows for untreated water to be put into those adjacent
preserves. With the conversion to the -- to the residential
development, that stormwater management generated on the site will
be treated on the site before it's allowed to flow off.
And companion with that is the changes in hydrology. Because
of the pumping and the way pumping is done for agricultural
operations, you get a hydro period that's very flashy, meaning the
water table can go up and down very quickly based on how much
water they're pumping out.
Under the residential development, that outflow is actually
regulated to a maximum amount of cubic footage of water over a
given period of time. So it tries to reestablish or mimic the natural
flow of water that would have been in place prior to the agricultural
uses.
As part of the flowway and enhancement activities that we're
doing on the site, there will be some wading bird foraging that will be
better and more natural than currently occurs. There is some wading
bird foraging that happens in the ditches on the property. Those
ditches are subject to herbicide and pesticide applications, and so
with that going away and the creation of a kind of more natural
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marshy area, there will be some enhanced wading bird foraging
communities.
The native preserve preservation, there are two areas on the site
that aren't either developed, cleared, or in the agricultural use. Both
of those are very heavily infested with exotic vegetation. The exotic
vegetation will be removed, natural plantings will be reestablished
there, and the end result will be that the actual native habitat available
on the site is going to increase from about two and a half acres to just
under 10 and a half acres. And those areas will also be protected into
the future with conservation easements that will be dedicated to the
county.
And then something that came up under the staff review as well
as some of the reviews with the wildlife agencies is trying to separate
the development from those adjacent preserve areas.
So this 30-foot landscape buffer basically means that from the
property line in at least 30 feet there will be only, kind of,
landscaping or yard areas. No actually residential roadways or
anything like that within that first 30-foot buffer. And then the
10-foot fence and all will help to also preclude any adverse
interactions between the residents in the neighborhood and the local
wildlife. In conjunction with this, as it moves forward through the
wildlife agencies, there will be other kind of internal things that will
be required with the residents to avoid attracting bears into the
property, things like controlling outdoor pet feeding, barbecue grills,
bird feeders; that kind of stuff will all be kind of more strictly
regulated than it might be in other neighborhoods to avoid providing
a food source that would draw those animals into the -- into the
residential thing.
The other thing that 30-foot buffer does is it actually also
provides some increased protection from fire. Those conservation
areas could either -- either under a prescribed burn or an accidental
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burn could catch on fire, and that 30-foot buffer provides some safety
from those conservation areas to the adjacent residents as well. And
so that was my quick summary. If you have any questions...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Since you're an expert on
hydration as well, talk to me about the flow under -- and I'm joking
about that, by the way. You know a lot about hydration or
rehydration.
But talk to me about the culvert scheme underneath Sabal Palm
Road. Because there was a movement afoot many years ago to
rehydrate the south part of the North Belle Meade, $30 million pump
station, and over 75, and rehydrate that area to the north of this and
enhance that flow of that water that goes all the way, ultimately,
theoretically, into Rookery Bay and such.
So could you talk a little bit about the sizing of the culverts and
the capacity of water movement there?
MR. HALL: And JD would be better able to respond to the
actual sizing. I'm not sure if they've actually finalized what the size
of those culverts will be, but the intent will be to help move water
from the north side of Sabal Palm to the south side and essentially
help with the -- with flooding concerns to the north but also to help
with hydrating some of the areas that you have been cut off
from -- one way or another to the south in terms of restoring more of
that -- that flow in a more natural type of system.
Sabal Palm kind of acts like a dam or berm. And so enhancing
the ability for water to get -- to get under there under flood type
conditions is going to help both sides of the roadway to release and
drop water levels on the north side but provide additional water to the
south when it's needed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who's JD?
MR. HALL: JD is the civil engineer for the project. Sorry.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay, okay. I just -- because
that's something that's a huge -- because we already know there are
flood issues on the north side of Sabal Palm, and we know that
if -- if, in fact, those rehydration efforts come out to the north -- or to
the south half of the North Belle Meade, then there's even going to be
more water coming in there. And I need to make sure that modeling
component is sufficient to be able to move that volume of water out.
MR. HALL: Yeah. Well, the three pump stations that they did
on the Miller Boulevard --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. HALL: -- Fakaunion and Prairie Canals. Filling in those
canals, establishing the pump stations is definitely changing the
hydrology in that area. They've been in place for a couple years, but
I don't think it's been there long enough or under enough different
types of annual rainy cycles to know what the -- all the effects will be
this far out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Those were over in the
Picayune.
MR. HALL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And they haven't been able to
run the east/west pump yet simply -- well, only on a limited basis,
because they haven't -- they haven't the -- they haven't had the
backfill needed that they wanted to do.
I'm talking about a different effort almost in line with Benfield
Road. They were talking about a pump station to move water out of
that canal on the north side of 75 and then rehydrate from the north to
better -- to move surface water down through and not directly into the
Gordon River.
MR. HALL: And I know that -- I know that as part of the
modeling and all that they're looking at, I know he's looking at that,
but I didn't do any of that modeling, so I don't know what that is.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Mr. Yovanovich, anything else?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No. That's it. I will point out,
Commissioner McDaniel, obviously, we'll have JD here at the PD
[sic] consideration. But at the Planning Commission, the county's
water management expert did testify that this project was consistent
with the efforts you were just describing.
With that, that's a brief presentation from us. We can answer
any questions you may have in addition to whatever Mr. --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Is Mr. Bosi coming to the
podium, or can you?
MR. BOSI: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Thanks.
This is a perfect example of where we have way too much
misinformation out in the public. I mean, it's great to see all the
presentations that you put on, but the negative with what you-all just
said is you make it sound like all that's automatically already
approved. There's still a vetting process that has to happen.
This is in my district, and I can tell you there's an explosion of
citizens, of course, when anything is being proposed for built -- to be
built who don't want it, who think we've already approved this.
I mean, my in-box is full of emails that say -- and social
media -- "I can't believe the commissioners are allowing a 423-unit,
you know, structure to be built." We haven't done any of that, right?
There's been no NIM. It hasn't been all the normal -- or whatever is
required.
So alls we're voting on today is to change the Growth
Management Plan, and then it will continue. I mean, and that's where
I say to Mr. Bosi, with your expertise, I'd like you to separate rumor
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from fact because, you know, there's petitions out there from citizens
saying "Please stop this." Like, "Shovels are going in the ground
tomorrow." That's none of what we're doing right now.
So if -- with your expertise, if you could, and briefly, explain to
the average citizen or reporter who's out there watching us right now,
and to all the emails that we're getting, what we're doing right now
and what we're not doing.
And that's why sometimes when it's, like, "Well, then we're
going to put culverts, and we're going to do this." Okay. Maybe.
Maybe. Maybe not, you know.
So that's where, you know, as Commissioner Saunders always
says, "Words matter."
So that's all your proposal. We're not voting on any of that.
Now, it all sounds great in some areas and maybe not great.
And the other thing I would also just say -- and you probably
could speak to this -- is a lot of times citizens think the answer to not
having something built on a piece of property is Conservation
Collier. Conservation Collier is not a program to buy real estate to
prevent an apartment complex from being built. Conservation Collier
exists -- and we have Brad Cornell in the audience -- to identify a
piece of property that is environmentally sensitive, not that once had
a bald eagle that flew over it five years ago or somebody thought they
saw a panther three years ago. It has to meet very specific criteria.
So when citizens sort of beat us up, that -- "Oh, we haven't used
Conservation Collier to preserve this land," I think what all of us
would say up here is, "Come to the podium here and explain to us
why this piece of land would qualify for Conservation Collier." Just
because it's green and has trees and you don't want to see something
built on it -- you know, Commissioner McDaniel says this multiple
times -- people have the right to build land that they own on [sic].
Our job is to regulate and control it.
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But let me just go back to my original question. Explain to us in
your terms, Mr. Bosi -- because this is your area of expertise -- what
are we doing today, and what are we not doing? We know that
answer, but I want to hear what you and I talked about in my office.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
Today's hearing is a request to transmit this Growth
Management Plan amendment to the State of Florida Department of
Commerce, so you're not approving anything. You're not -- there's
no PUD that's even associated with this. That comes at a later stage.
You're simply asking staff to transmit the components, the density
and the intensity that's associated -- and the commitments that are
associated with their subdistrict -- to propose a subdistrict for this
169-acre parcel of land.
And it's a large-scale amendment, meaning that it has a
transmittal hearing, which we're at, and then it will have adoption
hearing. At the adoption hearing, we'll marry the PUD -- so the
specifics of the PUD and a lot of the improvements that are going to
be provided for -- which are contained in the PUD are going to come.
So today there's no -- there's nothing other than we're asking you
to transmit this document, this Growth Management Plan amendment
to Tallahassee. Department of Commerce will look at it, provide us
comments after 30 days from all the state reviewing agencies. We'll
take those comments. We'll coordinate with the applicant. We'll
schedule for a Planning Commission hearing, and then we'll move
forward with a Board of County Commissioners hearing.
And let me tell you a little bit about the process before you even
got here. When we originally had this submittal come in, staff had
some concerns with it, because one of the things that we recognized
is -- what Commissioner McDaniel was referring to is in 2023 when
we adopted the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District amendments, we
created the North Belle Meade hydrological area, and this is within
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that overlay. And that overlay wants to promote sheet flow from the
north to the south and, with a pumping station at 75, get it over 75,
bring it back down to the southern area, which is the Benfield Road
area, and have that sheet flow continue, because that's all sending
land area. So this is an area that really wants to promote that
historical flow.
One of the things that we were concerned with, because this is
an environmentally sensitive land, but this land -- the 169 acres is
almost, you know, is a farm field, an active farm field. It's not
environmentally sensitive. Probably -- I agree, it probably should
have had a neutral designation at most.
But when we came in, the original application, it didn't have a
30-foot buffer that separated the sending lands from where the
development's actually going to begin. That's one of the things staff
worked through with the applicant. The applicant finally agreed with
that.
Also, they had a 55 percent open space. We asked them if they
could -- if they could get to this -- a 60 percent. They finally agreed
to that as well.
We went into the Planning Commission with a recommendation
of denial because we thought that the density -- we thought the
density was a little too high. It was suggested at 2.66 units per acre.
We wanted it at 2.5, the maximum that you could get in that urban
transitional area, to keep that consistency. At the Planning
Commission, they agreed to that as well.
So a lot of those benefits that are in this and where staff is now
supporting was done just because of negotiation between staff, and
the applicant's willing to work with staff and understand some of the
positions that we have.
We also recognize that, as described, some of the benefits that
you really get will be contained in the PUD, talking about the
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culverts and improving that sheet flow that currently Sabal Palm
provides a hindrance to, but also the improvements, the utility
extension, the sidewalk along -- and within less than a mile from the
urbanized area with a unique commodity.
We do recognize -- and Cormac Giblin, our Housing and
Economic Development director, is back there if you need to speak
with him.
The 15 percent commitment to for-sale affordable housing is a
unique commodity. I mean, like we said, Habitat's the only other
one. We've never had a for-profit developer suggest that. So we also
know that that has a real benefit of 63 units that are going to be made
available for sale to individuals who are, you know, working within
this community.
For all those different reasons, and all those sequence of events,
what comes to you now is tied up in a tighter bow. But what you
guys are doing would be simply directing staff to transmit this to the
state, get some comments from state agencies, if there's any relevant
comments related to their proposal, and then it's going to come back,
we're going to marry that PUD, because the specifics, the dos, the
details where the devil normally is is in that PUD. You'll get to see
that -- the PUD after we schedule a Planning Commission hearing.
And then, finally, probably sometime November or December of
this year, you'll be asked to take action at an adoption hearing. So
that's where this will all lead to, but today's is just transmit it to the
State of Florida.
And like I said, there's been a lot of work done, there's been a lot
of modifications through this process to get to where we are now. I
think we have a good project. And we're -- staff is recommending
approval asking you for -- to direct us to transmit to the state.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So there -- to correct the
record, there was a NIM that happened way back when --
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MR. BOSI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- but it wasn't -- was it
attended robustly or not so much or --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, it was well attended. And by the
way, we'll have another NIM because it will be more than a year
before we get back to you again. So we'll have another NIM.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. And that's what I
would just, in conclusion, like you to outline is when it comes back
from the state -- and you sort of have -- but I want you to tie it up in a
tighter bow -- the steps that are left. There's still plenty of public
comment left. The public feedback that I've gotten, they think we've
sort of circumvented the whole process; that they didn't hear about
anything, they've never had a chance to come to the commissioner
meeting and -- you know, and give any kind of public comment, and
today we're approving for shovels to go into the ground tomorrow.
So you sort of just said it, when it comes back from the state,
like Mr. Yovanovich said, probably another NIM, it goes to the
Planning Commission, plenty of public comment. So pick it up from
there so that we can separate rumor from fact.
MR. BOSI: And as you said, when it comes back from the state,
we will -- they'll schedule another neighborhood information meeting
and advertise, as well as provide property notification letters for that
NIM. And then we'll schedule the Planning Commission. That will
require another property notification as well as -- property
notification as well as the advertisement. People will have every
opportunity to come.
The first NIM -- or not the first NIM, but the first Planning
Commission member [sic], we only had one person speak. There
was only one person who -- one of the public showed up -- one
person in public showed up. They weren't in support of the process.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Mike? Mike, that's the wrong project.
May 27, 2025
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There was nobody there against it.
MR. BOSI: Oh, that's right.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's a different project.
MR. BOSI: There was -- actually, there was no public comment
on this.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But some of the public think
that was it, that they missed it, and now, you know, it's running
rampant.
The project -- the details that you're explaining here about the
project, we will have a chance to say we like or don't like it; so will
the Planning Commission. So none of that has even happened yet. I
just wanted to be specific and on the record, because my constituents
that are against this project are already at Step 10 thinking we
somehow went around everybody's back, and we're approving today
for it to be built, and that's not the case. We're approving for this to
go to the state and then come back. And that's something where I
think, you know, based on property rights and whatnot, it's not
something that we could hold up. That give -- they have every right
to request this.
MR. BOSI: They have every right. And as we said, Planning
Commission will be notified, public notice as well as property owner
notification, and then your final adoption hearing will have the
advertisements for time and date of that hearing.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Will the lineal footage of
notice be extended by the time this comes back for a second NIM?
MR. BOSI: That's -- and I was going to bring that up. That
probably is going to be -- it's going to be running tight. If you would
want to impose an additional mile for the notification, that would
be -- I think would probably be a better safeguard than trying to make
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sure we get through the LDC process.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Is that something we can
decide now?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Yovanovich, do you have any
issue with that?
MR. YOVANOVICH: And I spoke to Commissioner McDaniel
about this. If it's not adopted, we're happy to go with the proposed --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel --
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- one mile.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- do you want to make a motion
on --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you make a motion to move this
forward, add that to your motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, we still have
public hearing and everything.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But I just want to make sure,
because that was one of the big deficiencies which causes a lot of
mis- and disinformation with the entire process so that we're -- so that
we're actually notifying the people, I mean --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, anybody -- anybody
registered to speak?
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we have eight registered public
speakers for this item. Your first speaker is -- I'm going to ask the --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's do this, because we do need
to take a court reporter break.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we come back at
3 o'clock. That's 17 minutes; that should give us enough time. We'll
break until 3 p.m.
May 27, 2025
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(A recess was had from 2:44 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go ahead and wrap up this
particular item.
MR. MILLER: Do you want to continue with our public
speakers now, Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Let's go ahead and --
MR. MILLER: I'd like to ask our speakers to queue up and use
both podiums in the interest of time. Your first speaker is Bonnie
Murphy. She'll be followed by Christine Briggs.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You guys are real troopers. You've
been here all morning and all afternoon.
MS. MURPHY: Good morning. This is a learning experience
for me because I've never done this before. But I want to thank the
commissioners for hearing me out.
I became a resident of the Tamarindo community in July of
2024, relocating from my previous home in the Ole community in
Lely. My move was prompted by ongoing structural maintenance
and issues between 2019 and 2024. I was burdened with more than
$25,000 in assessments for roof, stucco, balcony, and other
unastainable incomes [sic].
Prior to purchasing in Tamarindo, I conducted a thorough
research and was encouraged by D.R. Horton's reputation as a
builder. The home I purchased is well constructed, but as many
homeowners in our community have discovered, the broader
development faces serious drainage and infrastructure issues.
I want to sincerely thank you all for your support in ensuring the
builder takes responsibility for resolving these problems. Without the
intervention, this could be devastating to many of us who own there
by not allowing the COs.
Now I must raise a new and pressing concern regarding the
May 27, 2025
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proposed development along Palm Sabal Road, particularly in the
light of zoning changes being considered. My primary concern is
additional development in this location may intensify my drainage
issues and increase the risk of flooding in my Tamarindo community.
I purchased in Tamarindo community because I was in a Zone
C, and I was also told I didn't need flood insurance. If I need to get
flood insurance, that's going to be a financial strain.
I'm not asking you to move an airport. I looked at this property
before I bought there and thought it was safe to buy there, so I really
don't want this zoning changed.
Let me be clear, I fully support diverse housing options,
including those for low income and fixed residents; however, in the
34114 ZIP Code, we're already accommodating substantial growth
with a wide range of options available at all income levels. We have
Echo Condenza with 418 units of affordable and senior housing.
Creative Commons, you have 107 senior living options. Songbird by
Habitat, there's 52 single-family homes.
There's a well-established community. You have Tamarindo.
You have Hacienda Lakes. You have Verona Walk. You have Fiori
Naples opening in 2025. With all these additional housing, it's kind
of scary. The total rentals right now that are available in the 34114
ZIP code are approximately 388. There's 165 houses, 309
apartments, and 40 condos. These prices range from 4,500 a month
to 1,200 a month.
Beyond housing, I urge the Board to consider the environmental
impacts of continued rezoning and construction. The land
surrounding Palm Sabal Road is home to a fragile ecosystem,
including the critically endangered Florida panther. Continued
development in these sensitive areas leads to habitat destruction,
disrupts wildlife corridors, and weakens the region's already stressed
environmental systems. Once this natural land is gone, it can not be
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reserved.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need you to wrap
up.
MS. MURPHY: Okay. This issue goes beyond just
infrastructure inventory. It is about sustainability, responsible growth
that considers the long-term health of our environment, our
infrastructures, and our residents.
As an example, I recently purchased -- I recently experienced --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you could kind of get to your
conclusion. We really need to move on.
MS. MURPHY: Okay. Okay. Well, anyway, I just don't want
this built. There's not enough emergency rooms and things to take
care of me when I am sick now. I had a five-week wait on a test that
I needed. We just don't have the infrastructure to do it.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christine Briggs, and she'll
be followed by Brad Cornell.
MS. BRIGGS: Thank you for the honor of speaking to you.
I speak on behalf of over 680 residents who, in the last 48 hours,
signed a petition to keep the Sabal Palm property as sending,
agriculture, and not transition it into million-dollar homes. Which is
what most of it will be.
Please consider tabling this item and investigate whether
Conservation Collier could possibly pick it up even though,
admittedly, they'd have to do a lot of remediation given the previous
agricultural use.
I also think you might want to reconsider this in light of
Florida's sudden wake-up realization that it's about to lose what used
to be a $7 billion industry in 2021 of citrus orchards. They have
supposedly committed $190 million to help the independent citrus
grower. So it seems to me it would make great sense for us to look at
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another option that keeps this as a sending property and keeps the
orchard, maybe as part of it, as also an educational opportunity as
well as a functioning orchard.
The decision that you make -- and I understand now that you are
just approving -- I'm not quite sure what you're approving, but I think
you're approving to change the designation from sending to receiving
or perhaps just to send it up to the state for consideration. But your
decision, as this woman so articulately spoke before me, potentially
harms thousands of residents.
To the family that owns the property, I understand the desire to
sell. Like me, you're old. You'd like to reap the benefits for yourself
and your heirs, although only two of the five owners live in Naples.
The other three are in Illinois. But the decision that benefits you
potentially harms so many of your neighbors. So it's worth looking at
if Conservation Collier could buy it, and then everybody could be
happy.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Brad Cornell. He'll be
followed by Angela Osceola.
MR. CORNELL: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and
Commissioners. I'm Brad Cornell, and I'm here on behalf of
Audubon Western Everglades and Audubon Florida. We appreciate
the opportunity to address this large-scale Growth Management Plan
amendment issue.
Audubon is opposed to this GMP amendment changing the
Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District Natural Resource Protection Area,
or NRPA, Sending Lands, the 169 acres, to a residential subdistrict
with 423 housing units where currently only four are permitted. We
agree with the original staff analysis demonstrating a lack of
consistency with the intent of the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District
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NRPA current designation. That staff analysis is in the Planning
Commission staff report which recommends denial.
Audubon Western Everglades, in collaboration with Collier
County, helped create the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District from 1999
to 2003, including the current NRPA designation for this parcel.
The 1999 final order from Governor Jeb Bush was to protect
agriculture, habitat, and private property. The NRPA designation is
supported by current data and analysis which shows its regional
context surrounded by permanent conservation preserves and the
Picayune Strand State Forest.
The proposed revision to place 423 residential units in this
conservation landscape is urban leapfrog sprawl unsupported by
public facilities and in conflict with the wetlands and imperiled
species, including Florida panthers, wading birds, and Red-cockaded
woodpeckers, which are dependent on prescribed fire in this area.
Further concerns over compatibility with surrounding
conservation lands include the lack of adequate bear-wise and Florida
panther community management plans.
Only 30-foot buffer from regular prescribed fire on all these
conservation lands, the need for which was demonstrated this past
week with three wildfires burning in this region. Thirty feet is
nothing. Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary needs a half mile for our
prescribed fires from other -- at least for other developments.
The reduction of littoral planting requirement from the current
30 percent of the stormwater lake surface to only 7 percent will
degrade water quality and increase risks of harmful algal blooms.
Audubon recognizes the need for affordable housing in this area,
but that should not undermine long-term land-use conservation plans
by placing ill-sited urban development in conservation lands. There
are more appropriate urban sites for affordable housing.
If the Board wants to approve this, you should require them to
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buy 419 TDR credits to entitle that and increase the affordable
housing to 30 percent rather than 15 percent, which is what you did
on the Fiddler's Creek Section 29 apartments.
Again, we are not in support of this. Thank you very much for
your consideration.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Angela Osceola. She'll be
followed by Victor Jarikov.
MS. OSCEOLA: Good afternoon, my fellow Commissioners.
I'm here, obviously, opposing this.
No one has been talking about -- obviously there's a drainage
issue within Tamarindo community, as my fellow Tamarindo
community members have already -- had mentioned that, but no one's
talking anything about what the traffic increase is going to be with
the 423 homes times two times all of the deliveries and everything
else.
There's no light there. There's going to be much more added
traffic. We only -- you know, there's only one way in, one way out
from Sabal Palm. And I've never heard anything about that being
addressed with the light, who is going to, you know, put that in, how
that's going to work, if this community is -- is going to be in
development.
Also, we as Tamarindo -- from what I understand, we weren't
allowed to disperse floodwaters into the area that they're proposing.
So I'm not sure how they can do that if we weren't allowed to as a
community. Ours is going into the Henderson Canal which runs
along 951, and it already can't really take on the water that we have,
our stormwater, and the drainage issue that we have.
Furthermore, there's -- there's -- there's ditches and culverts there
that were -- you know, we have pictures and proof during some past
storms of stuff, you know, that was -- it was pretty high. And so I
May 27, 2025
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understand that they want to put a sidewalk and -- but, you know,
enhance some things, but nothing's really been said about the traffic
that's going to occur and our current issue that's going to be -- not
going to be handled overnight with the issue with the drainage within
Tamarindo, which in there lies, if they don't have -- if they disperse
their water, which is going to be behind Verona Walk, then that
means, you know -- or if it doesn't get approved because we weren't
approved to do that, then it will have to go into the Henderson Canal
if that is not something that is approved. So that's -- that's my
concern.
The traffic, the drainage issues, and, you know -- it would be
leaving us waiting a long time to even -- to get in and out of our
communities. And nothing has been rectified or really given to us as
direction on how this is going to be handled from -- from our current
developer within Tamarindo. So this is not something that's going to
be done anytime soon, and I just am here in opposition of this new
development.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Victor Jarikov, and he'll be
followed on Zoom by Elizabeth Barrick.
MR. JARIKOV: Hello. My name is Viktor Jarikov. I represent
mostly myself but also some of my neighbors from Morgan Road.
We live on 316 Morgan.
My point's going to echo the previous presenter. People are
concerned about the drainage and the traffic, for the most part.
Traffic probably No. 1 and drainage No. 2.
Right now I don't think -- we tried to count, maybe we have far
less than 100 homes using Sabal Road right now, people that live
there, not counting Tamarindo. So Tamarindo's more.
So adding 423 more homes, it will probably increase the number
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of dwellers on that road, I don't know, four times, five times, and
with no improvements to the road, just extending it further out,
especially not having a traffic light and only having a right turn. So
you're going to have everybody who goes south, they have to do a
turnaround.
So if you have 100 cars or 200 cars or 300 cars, well, or more,
that's going to create long lines. Right now there's the Haitian church
that's on Sabal Palm. When they dissemble, there's usually a pretty
long line of people waiting to get out from Sabal on Collier, which is
already objectionable.
I'm told that the Tamarindo -- one of the Tamarindo conditions
were to -- that the traffic light was going to be installed already just
for the sake of Tamarindo's community, which was not done. The
word on the street is that the county did not provide their half of the
funding for it. I don't know if the Tamarindo provided theirs, but
that's the word on the street about it.
Okay. The second is the drainage. This is a swamp area. It's a
seasonal swamp. All this area is mostly under water for half a year. I
mean, our lot -- three-quarters of our lot is under water for half a
year. About half of my neighbors' -- our neighbors' lots are under
water. That's normal. But it also makes us vulnerable to any
obstruction in drainage.
So if anything -- you know, we noticed an uptick, probably, of
water levels after Hacienda and as Azur came up, so we are afraid
that this may lead also to more problems. And even as it is, Sabal
Palm does not drain correctly. If you look at it from Morgan Road to
middle of the -- about half mile down the Sabal Palm, the water just
stands. About three feet of water stands in the ditch. It doesn't go
anywhere. So only the top layer would drain, and then the rest just is
standing water. So that ditch and -- the culvert system and the ditch
are not really relieving it.
May 27, 2025
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So those are our concerns. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Commissioners, our remaining speakers all join
us via Zoom. First up is Elizabeth Barrick, and she'll be followed by
Peter Monti.
Elizabeth, you're being prompted to unmute your mic. I see
you've done that. You have three minutes.
MS. BARRICK: Yes. Hello. Thank you for allowing us to all
speak. My name's Elizabeth Barrick. I live in Verona Walk, and I'd
like to echo everything every other speaker has said in opposition to
this development, especially about the drainage.
Tamarindo has come to Verona Walk looking to be able to drain
into our ponds, our retention ponds. I doubt very seriously Verona
Walk is going to okay that.
Their second choice in the meeting we had with them said they
would like to put a pipeline down towards Sabal Palm and sheet flow
the water down that way. Well, if this development happens, will
they be able to do that? They've already been turned down for
Henderson Creek. So now we have, instead of two communities in
the Sabal Palm area concerned about drainage, Tamarindo and
Verona Walk, now we want to add a third, and to me, I see no benefit
to this.
I looked on Realtor this morning. In the 34114 ZIP code, there
were almost 800 houses for sale. There is no benefit to building more
new homes when there's plenty of availability of real estate sitting on
the market, and not to speak of hundreds of apartments that are being
built.
So I see no value to anyone in continuing with this development.
And I think I'm echoing the sentiment of probably 98 percent of the
residents of Collier County when it comes to unbridled development
where there's not a true need for it.
May 27, 2025
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And additionally, the wildlife -- you know, we've had bears in
Verona Walk because they're being squeezed down for their territory,
and, you know, we're destroying the environment that brings people
to Florida to begin with. We're not coming here for jobs. You know,
we're coming here because we love the nature, and I think preserving
it should be a priority over unneeded development.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Peter Monti, and he will be
followed by Laura Gelli Wittek.
Peter, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. I see you've
done that. You have three minutes, sir.
MR. MONTI: Thank you. I appreciate it.
I am a resident of Verona Walk, and I'm speaking as a private
resident but, by way of background, I am also a CDD supervisor. We
have become quite familiar with the Tamarindo problem, as they lie
directly north of us.
I've just very recently been made aware that Tamarindo is
withdrawing their request to drain through our property and is going
to pursue the approach of going through a transfer of water via Sabal
Palm Road. This will undoubtedly require some type of spreader
arrangement and culverts under the -- under the road to make that
work effectively and get past the damming function that Sabal Palm
represents.
That's going to dump, by their specifications, eight cubic feet
per second of water into that neighborhood. So you are going to be
faced with an immediate conflict of whether you help the people
you've already approved or whether you allow a new group of people
to be stirred into the mix. This is a poorly thought out and
dangerously damaging process.
Those of us who were here through Hurricane Irma realize that
the amount of rain that fell in a catastrophic type of hurricane came
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within a foot of overflowing our ponds and entering our homes.
Adding this kind of water to a neighborhood without the ability to
foresee the kind of damage it's going to do is foolish.
While I do appreciate the civics course by Commissioner
LoCastro as far as what all the steps are, we all recognize that, in fact,
this is the camel's nose coming into the tent, and we need to be
cognizant of the fact that once this starts to work its way through the
approval process, allowing us to make comments is one thing. Your
responsibility to listen to those comments is something entirely
different.
And our expectation is that now that these neighborhoods are in
place, you will exercise your responsibility to protect us in the future
against bad decisions that will damage the properties that are already
built.
Beyond that, I want to thank the folks from Audubon, because I
totally support their comments and think that we need to recognize
the opportunities of protecting the wildlife, creating wildlife
corridors --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to need you to wrap
up.
MR. MONTI: I appreciate it, and I believe we've covered it all.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your final registered speaker for this
item is Laurie Gelli Wittek.
Laurie, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so
at this time.
Laura is joining us on phone. You were unmuted for a second.
I think it's star six or star nine, one or the other, when you're on phone
to unmute. There, you're unmuted, Laura. You have three minutes.
MS. GELLI WITTEK: So sorry. I won't take three minutes, I
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promise.
I've been a Florida resident for almost five years. I totally enjoy
the proximity of my home in Verona Walk to the preserve. When I
drive down Collier Boulevard, it actually sickens me to see the
amount of new housing developments that are cropping up, not to
mention the problem that happened, you know, Hacienda Lakes with
incredible amounts of apartments. It's just -- I just shake my head
every time I go by there.
And the poor people at Tamarindo with the problem they're
having with water, I can't only imagine what would happen with this
new development coming that would perhaps create even more
problems.
And I'm not a math expert; however, if you're talking about
affordable housing, out of 423, you're only going to have 63 units for
affordable housing? So don't push the issue of affordable housing
because that's not a lot of affordable housing homes.
And thank you for all the folks who spoke before me, because I
echo their sentiment. Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: That was our final registered speaker for this
item, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Mr. Yovanovich, do you have any closing? Because I do have a
couple questions for our staff.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. Do you want to ask your staff
questions first?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And then I'll --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Because it may an been impact on
your wrapping up.
Mr. Bosi, could you kind of describe what occurred at the
Planning Commission, what the vote was and --
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MR. BOSI: The vote was 4-1. And I was corrected, there were
no public speakers at the Planning Commission. It was 4-1, and
Commissioner Shea, I believe, was the one opposition, and he felt
that the public benefits that were described by staff and by the
applicant did not provide sufficient to provide justification for the
change for the sending land designation that currently the property
receives.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What's the market for development
units? This is -- this is a sending area right now, and this change will
turn this into a receiving area. So --
MR. BOSI: This -- they're proposing to lift this out of the Rural
Fringe Mixed-Use District. They are creating their own subdistrict,
which would allow 2.5 units an acre. Currently, it's allowed one unit
per 40 acres.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And that's because it's in
a -- in the Rural Fringe.
MR. BOSI: It's in the Rural Fringe sending, and this is a
sending NRPA designation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, again, I'm just trying to
understand, the units that they can send, is there a market for those?
MR. BOSI: Oh, is there a market for if they were to create
TDRs for this property? If they weren't seeking a Growth
Management Plan, they weren't seeking development, and they just
wanted to create TDRs, they could get four TDRs per each 5-acre
tract. Actually, they could get an additional TDR because they're in
the North Belle Meade hydrological overlay. So I believe they could
get five TDRs per 5-acre tract. That gets them close to, like, 450, 460
TDRs could probably be generated.
The market for TDRs -- there is a market. It's not as robust as
we would like it, and one of the reasons why that is is we've never
had a rural village that was -- that sought development. We had one
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that went through a Growth Management Plan amendment, but the
PUD never came.
And the villages are what would be -- the main consumers
would be the greatest source of demand for TDRs, and because of
that, the market for TDRs has diminished somewhat. And we may
have created a competition for that because when we adopted the rule
changes for the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District, then we allowed for
affordable housing at 12.2 units per acre in the receiving area.
We've provided a mechanism that says that if you provide for
affordable housing, you do not -- you are not required to utilize
TDRs. So that undercut the TDR demand a little bit in the name of
providing for more affordable housing. But on the contrast to that,
just as a sidenote, that it has been -- it has produced a number of new
affordable housings over the last couple of years.
So the market for TDRs is not as strong as we would have liked,
but we do know that there is a market out there for them.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So when this is sent up, does that
result in the change? We approve this today, it gets sent up. That
change to make it a receiving area instead of -- or taking it out of the
Rural Fringe, does that become final?
MR. BOSI: No, it doesn't become final. It's a proposition.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And the reason I'm
asking this, I'm not convinced, necessarily, that this is a zoning that
should be approved, and I don't want to -- I guess my concern is, by
approving this, what does that do to our options down the road? If
you're saying it doesn't do anything to our options, that's one thing.
MR. BOSI: And the County Attorney could correct me if I'm
wrong, but I do not -- you are not handcuffed by a recommendation
to transmit to the state. This is just transmitted to the state to hear
what the state reviewing agencies may think of the -- of the proposal
related to state significant systems.
May 27, 2025
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There is no obligation at adoption that you have to follow
through with the approval of this GMP or the approval of the PUD
that's being proposed. That would be at adoption. So this is simply
to transmit it to the state to get comments from the state agencies.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So I think it was important
to have that clarification because I don't have an issue with
necessarily sending this up to the state, but I do -- I may have an issue
with voting to rezone this. I may have an issue with voting to take it
out of the Rural Fringe. And what you're saying is today's vote
doesn't do that?
MR. BOSI: Correct. It does not. It doesn't. It simply sends it
to the state for further evaluation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So then I guess my
message to the developer would be this is a long process, but you've
got some neighborhoods that have some real problems. You've got a
roadway there that appears to have some real problems, and you've
got at least one commissioner that has some concerns with moving
forward with this.
I would encourage you to try to solve some of those problems if
you can, because I don't want you -- you know, regardless of what
my vote is today, I don't want -- if I vote to transmit this just for that
information from the state, I don't want you to take that as, well,
when this comes back, I'm a vote for the --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- the other aspects of this.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And if I can, let me address some of the
comments that the public made so they can think about it in the
meantime. First of all -- and I think Mike's math may be a little off.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It is.
MR. YOVANOVICH: By quite a bit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: By quite a bit.
May 27, 2025
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MR. YOVANOVICH: The reality is, you might get three TDRs
per five acres, because one of them is a conveyance credit, and so far,
nobody wants to take the lands, and the second is you've got to clean
it up. So you may get three credits per five acres, which I did that
math, is 101, not 400.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct, correct.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Which is quite a significant difference.
So the reality is, from a marketability, unless someone comes forward
with a village, there's really no buyers for these 100 credits.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But again --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I know. But let me -- and let me just -- I
know I'm just putting -- now, Tamarindo, I believe, is right here, if
I'm close on my development. Am I right? Yeah, I think I hit it on
the number.
That project is nowhere near our project, and our project is
nowhere near that project. And our project drains directly south. So
we have absolutely no drainage impact on Verona Walk or
Tamarindo as is. And I understand that everybody who spoke is
probably not an engineer. But right now water's just flowing.
When we ultimately come forward with a PUD and we do a
water management system, we actually control the flow of the water,
and we discharge it at a much lesser rate than the free flow of water
right now.
So the concerns -- I understand the concerns about drainage.
What I'm saying is, from an engineering standpoint, we do not
negatively impact their neighborhoods from our drainage. And you
can -- and you don't have to trust me. You don't have to trust -- but
you can trust your own staff who's analyzed this, and you can trust
the Water Management District, because we have to get those
permits.
In response to Mr. Cornell, the reality is staff -- he said he
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agreed with staff's original recommendation, which was to approve
the project if we reduced the density to where we are today and if we
increased the open space from -- to where we are today. So we have
complied with what staff requested in order to get their support for a
recommendation of approval.
There are -- when we're done -- and you'll see this when the
PUD comes back -- is we will upgrade Sabal Palm Road to a county
road. It will be a legitimate county road, not what it is today, by our
project, which means we have to deal with the drainage of Sabal
Palm Road, and we will install culverts, and we'll make those -- that
will all come forward at the PUD stage as part of this process.
So -- and traffic, your traffic staff, Transportation staff, has
analyzed the traffic on Sabal Palm Road and has determined that
Sabal Palm Road, once we improve our portion of Sabal Palm Road,
can handle the traffic capacity.
So from the comments from the neighbors about drainage, we
understand their comments. We do not negatively impact their
drainage. From a transportation standpoint of Sabal Palm Road, we
don't have a -- we do add trips. So I don't want anybody to say,
"Rich, don't tell me we're not a negative impact." Yes, we add trips,
but the road has a capacity to handle our units.
This is right by the urban area. Your staff has already said this
would never have been designated an NRPA sending designation had
they -- had they had representation at the time.
This is a good project. We're asking you for transmittal. We
understand that we may not get adoption. We'll address every one of
the concerns in our -- in our presentation.
We're going to have -- we've agreed to provide additional notice
for what -- what is required, so that would probably mean everybody
in Verona Walk is going to get a notice. I know they knew about it
because they attended our first NIM, but we'll provide the required
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notice.
I even offered the lady -- during the break there was a complaint
about where we actually post our signs. We have to put signs on our
property to notice it. She says, but nobody knows unless you drive
down that way. Well, I can't put a sign on someone else's property.
If someone will allow us to post a sign on their property at the corner
of Sabal Palm and Collier Boulevard, we'll post a -- we'll post a sign
there, too, if they want additional notice. She said she'll try to go get
me a sign easement.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We can't talk from the
audience. If you want to add something, you have to come to the
podium.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We want people to know because I think
if they -- if they listen to the experts, they'll understand that the
concerns that they have are being addressed, and it will be better for
them if this project goes forward from a drainage standpoint overall.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Again, you know, my message is
simply --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Understood.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- sharpen your pencil, make sure
that you're meeting with the neighborhood, and let's see if we can
resolve some of the issues. I understand the drainage issue. I can't
disagree with that, but there may be other things in terms of the road
that you may need to take a look at.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Understood.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We've closed the public
hearing. Any other discussion?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm lit up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro, you have
a -- you're lit up.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So this is my district, and I'm
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just going on record that you have two commissioners that have
serious concerns. But I'm not trying to give anybody a civic lesson,
as the gentleman was saying, but this isn't the meeting to do it.
So when -- you know, with a few of the citizens in the room
here that -- all of your concerns had meat on the bone. Sir, you said
that the word on the street -- you know, I want you to leave here with
fact and not rumor. The county not paying for half of a light is fake
news. Never heard that, okay, ever. And also, all the concerns you
have about traffic analysis and drainage and all that, all that has yet to
come.
The 100 citizens from the local community that all want to line
up here at the podium, that meeting has yet to happen. And so your
concerns are valid. Two commissioners here have voiced that. I
don't know if I want 420 of anything to be on that road, but this isn't
the meeting for that.
So allowing this to go to the state and come back with more
information gives us a starting point. There probably -- like they
said, there would be another NIM, a neighborhood information
meeting, which all the concerned citizens should flood and go to that,
and that's the time to be heard. It would go back to the Planning
Commission; that would be open for public comment.
So, you know, I want to make sure that everybody understands
that some people are talking like we're at Step 10 right now. We're,
like, at Step .5. And so we're not voting on any of those things that
you have concerns on.
And the things you have concerns on would have to be analyzed,
and if the answers come back here, you already heard, two
commissioners here -- and I wouldn't doubt all five of us -- would do
a deep dive and to make sure we're not just shoehorning 400 units
into a place that -- that it doesn't fit.
I will echo, though -- and this doesn't mean we rubber stamp
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every, you know, development. I know a lot of times when citizens
drive by something and they hate it, they say, "How could we have
approved that?" And the reality is a lot of times what you see being
built that you hate is Draft 20. You would have really hated Draft 1
that we all fought to downsize and change and all of that.
But the part about drainage, it's premature to necessarily talk
about it, but when you leave here, to correct, you know, rumor from
fact, something that used to be an orange grove that's just sitting there
doesn't just -- water flows arbitrarily. I'm not saying we rubber stamp
a 500-unit apartment complex so that drainage is better, but before
that apartment complex is built, a much more robust drainage system
that doesn't exist at all in an area is a requirement.
So when you just have a big, huge piece of land and, you know,
Hurricane Irma comes through here, that water just goes wherever it
wants. When you build something, even if you hate it, underneath it
is a system that controls the water flow.
And so -- and even as Commissioner Saunders was saying, we
sort of get that. There's lots of other things that can approve or
disapprove something, but when folks say, "We have this big
drainage problem, just leave the land alone," okay, well, that drainage
problem won't get any better just letting the land sit. I'm saying it
gets better by approving a 400-and-something-unit complex, but
along with that complex is a very detailed and complex irrigation and
sewage, I should say, type system that does help the water flow. But
we're not there yet.
So, sir, I'll just tell you I appreciated everything you say. Leave
here and correct the word on the street, especially about that traffic
light, because I'm really big on lights. And when somebody says the
county did this, the county did that, it's really the Florida DOT that
approves a light, and then when it comes to the funding, they either
fund it, or in most cases the gated community -- Tamarindo, I
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believe, had some responsibility possibly to pay for that light, and
they may or may not have, but the county not paying for half of it,
that's total fake news.
And so -- and I'm available to any citizens. This is my district.
I'm very concerned about that road, the fires, and all of that.
But I got a big petition today that had thousands of signatures on
it. That tells us there's great concern out there, but this isn't the
meeting to, you know, throw the petition on top of -- on top of the
desk. That's coming, and I hope we hear from citizens robustly and
not just "We don't want this in our backyard."
I mean, you know, that's a valid comment, but we need a little
bit more. Same from, you know, Mr. Cornell who talks from an
environmental perspective. Every time we want to build something
on a piece of green space, you know, it just can't be, "Well, it's green
space and we want to keep it green." Everything can't be a dog park.
And so if there are endangered species on there or exotic
vegetation that we need to preserve or it's a water flow area that
needs to stay natural, those are things that have a lot of meat on the
bone to halt or downsize some sort of project or to maybe make it
viable for Conservation Collier. But just, "Hey, it was once an
orange grove, and now we don't want it to be an apartment complex,
have Conservation Collier buy it or let's just leave it as it is," that's
going to be a tough sale -- sell when there's not the other evidence to
support it. But that is coming, and today isn't the day.
So I support this moving forward to the state. It's going to make
us more educated on the property. We've approved nothing today for
construction. Nothing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
Thank you. That was well said. There's three of us that have
similar concerns with regard to this increase in density.
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I would like to know that -- and, again, I think we're a little past
.05 on steps, but --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Are you going to give me a
civic lesson?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A little bit. Just a little bit.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: 1.5?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Count your steps.
In the event that a light could be put in at Sabal Palm -- because
there's going to be more than 100 cars. I mean, 400 rooftops -- 423
rooftops, as proposed, will equate to twice that many cars. So the
installation of a traffic light, I would like, as we move from, that the
developer actually contributes a pro rata share with regard to that
expense.
I agree with my colleagues here with regard to the flooding. We
still have a lot of data to collect. If you will recall -- and I think this
even predates you, Commissioner LoCastro -- there was
originally -- if you go north of here three or four or five miles,
Benfield Road comes due south, and there was a -- back when the
previous county manager and deputy were in place, there was -- there
was a flyover over I-75 from White Lake on the north side of 75 to
Benfield and then a parallel road coming down that pretty much runs
right along the west side of this piece of property all the way back
down to 41 as a parallel road to lift some of the constraints on 951.
So there's -- there's a lot of things from a -- from a water
management standpoint that need to be addressed here managing the
flows, the flooding that's currently existent in this area. Certainly
there's no argument Sabal Palm is the dam that's causing that flow,
and I'm really going to be looking at those data numbers with regard
to the calculations and the modeling for the composite [sic] water
that's coming from the north.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
May 27, 2025
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I've just got two things. One's just a public announcement to
help out. Anyone who lives on any of these rural roads anywhere in
the county that may have, like, a church or any type of organization
that has large gatherings at certain times of the day and they come in
and they let them out, and you have, you know, a really restricted
area you've got to come out in, if you see that on a regular basis and it
does cause an issue in your community for you even to exit your
community or your street, you should probably reach out to the
Sheriff, let them come out and observe it. Because a lot of times in
the past I know we've had to have them hire a special detail for traffic
because if it is you get 200 cars staging at the intersection to get out
on Collier Boulevard, and it's blocking you people in your homes and
you can't get out, that's possibly an answer for some of these issues
and not so much just failure of the road situation. It's just the fact
that you have 200 cars leaving a church after a service.
And it may come to that point where, you know, the Sheriff may
say this is a hinderance to the traffic. You may have to hire a deputy
to sit out here during that time to direct traffic, stop traffic, something
to get the traffic flowing. That being said...
Second, Mr. French, I can't remember, but is this Tamarindo
development we're talking about, is this the one that -- was it the D.R.
Horton one that I kept getting comments about? And the flooding
was possibly a man issue or development -- or a pipe-size issue.
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. So -- for the record, my name's Jamie
French. I'm your department head for Growth
Management/Community Development.
The Tamarindo development is currently under a consent order
from the South Florida Water Management District. This would have
been considered a special flood hazard area that would have been
subject to ponding. It's an AH designation. And what they've done is
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they elevated this to where a letter of map revision was done.
Most of these homes are set at a finished floor elevation
probably around 10 feet, so, in all essence, they're an X zone. This
creates more than just a problem for this community. This developer
needs to correct the construction in here. Water's not flowing -- it's
not flowing as it was designed, and that's why the Water
Management District has taken the position they have.
We've actually -- because they're in -- they're in violation of
their ERP conditions, we've prevented any further homes from being
issued a certificate of occupancy. So there's a handful of homes in
there that look like they're done in all aspects, all the inspections were
done, but they can't take occupancy. We saw this during
Hurricane -- around Hurricane Ian to where this community which is
set at right around 10 feet or nine and a half feet NAVD.
We saw water actually lapping up against garage doors. This
creates a condition for the entire basin if you look at the FEMA flood
map. So it not just creates a problem for them; it creates a problem
for every house, every property that exists within that basin map.
And so what would typically happen is that FEMA would come
back through, and they may reset the elevations for everyone who
thinks they're in an X zone. Because of this failed development, it
could very well lead to every home within that basin having to get
flood insurance. Now, that's worst-case scenario.
So we are working on this with the developer. This is going to
require some reengineering. I don't know -- I think at one time,
perhaps Mr. Yovanovich may have been representing them. I'm not
sure. But at the -- at the end of the day, we are working with the
development. This is an outlier. It's very rare, but certainly this
community called us out. We responded.
It is a private development. These are not county right-of-ways.
And to Mr. Yovanovich's point, the way this water flows in there, this
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probably won't have much to do adding anything to Tamarindo.
That's a development problem.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's the reason I asked you to
kind of -- you know, if you can clarify that. Because I remember us
talking about it and different people reaching out to me. But it was
more based on just the design -- the way they designed that property.
MR. FRENCH: In construction.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: With construction --
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- that's creating their flooding
problem. It wasn't that there was some sort of outside influence, or
even this would be even outside. This wouldn't contribute to their
problem. Their problem's internal.
MR. FRENCH: They've got a design-and-construction problem,
staff believes that. I've only seen it maybe once or twice where you
received a consent order from the Water Management District during
construction or after your ERP was issued, so there's a problem.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I think we've beaten this
one pretty much to death.
So where are we? Is there a motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I move to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second.
Mr. Yovanovich.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just want to make sure we add
Commissioner McDaniel's request to expand the area --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- of the notice.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Notice.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, we're getting ready to clarify
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the motion.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just want to -- I didn't want that to get
lost.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So the motion is to transmit this for
information from the state and to add Commissioner McDaniel's
request that the area for notification be expanded. To what area?
Just within a mile?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Within a mile.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Within a mile. And the petitioner
has agreed to that.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passed unanimously.
But we've all said, you've got a tough road to hoe here -- or row
to hoe.
All right. Ms. Patterson.
Item #9D
ADOPT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ANIMAL CONTROL
ORDINANCE BY AMENDING THE DEFINITION OF HOBBY
BREEDER AND PERMIT REQUIREMENTS AND PROCESS -
MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE JULY 8 TH BCC MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL/HALL – APPROVED
May 27, 2025
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MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 9D.
This is a recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending the
Animal Control Ordinance by amending the definition of hobby
breeder and permit requirements in process. This item is brought to
the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And I'm going to start off
by saying I don't know anything about hobby breeders, and I don't
want to learn a whole lot about it. I do want to make sure that we
have an ordinance that is enforceable. And so I've -- we're not going
to vote on this today. I'm going to ask for it to be continued because I
want to make sure that we get comments and provisions added to
this. I know Mr. Kepp has been sitting here patiently for quite a
while, and so I know he's got a few words to say.
But we're going to -- I want to make sure that we get this in the
right way. So I'm going to ask our staff to work with the members of
the public on this ordinance, and also, just so the Commission knows,
I've had conversations with SNIP and with Friends of Cats and some
of the other organizations and with the Manager, and it seems to
me -- we've increased the budget for DAS. I think we did that on the
consent agenda this morning. And it seems to me that we can spend
money much, much more wisely and more effectively by partnering
with the private sector by providing grants and money for the private
sector to do some of the things that we just can't do very well. We're
not very good at picking up stray animals, we're not very good at
having mobile veterinarian units and things like that, but we have
people in the private sector.
So during our budget cycle, I've asked Tom Kepp and some of
the other folks to come back with some proposals, tell us what they
can do for us and how we can help them with some of the funding we
have to be more effective.
May 27, 2025
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But, Mr. Kepp, I don't know if you have any comments on this
ordinance this afternoon. Obviously you've been here. So I sure
would like to hear whatever you have to say.
MR. KEPP: Thank you. I had to sign up for three minutes. If
you want to give me a couple extra for sitting here all day, that would
be fine.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can -- you can have a few
extra.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As long as you want.
MR. KEPP: Tom Kepp, founder of SNIP Collier.
Let me start off. I've sat here today and I've listened to two
different organizations come up where we discussed public money,
taxpayer money and our concern about it. And that was the biggest
thing I heard in this is how do we make sure that our money's being
spent well.
Well, we need to look -- and I brought this up a couple weeks
ago when I was here about how much we've spent over the last 20
years that I've been coming up here.
And I think it's time that we looked internally at our own
organizations and get this one right, because this is a big deal.
This hobby breeder thing is -- it makes it sound like these are
people that are, like, breeding these animals on purpose. Just this last
10 days, I think I've taken close to 25 puppies and their moms that
have been under houses or just in the field or under somebody's
garage. And every one of these has been -- I've treated as an owner
surrender because I got them to sign off.
One of them I had to go to the landlord and explain to him that
he had broken sewage lines underneath the place and the health
department probably wouldn't be looking good at this, and he
surrendered the animals to me.
They've all gone to Cape Coral, Gulf Coast. So SNIP Collier,
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myself, whatever, have been taking a lot of burden off of our DAS.
But I've also taken about 50-some animals or more to them. And
they are so full, they look at me and say, "Tom, we don't have any
more kennels open."
To make more -- to give the DAS more money, which I
absolutely appreciate and want them to have a modern big facility,
you can put another 200 beds or kennels, whatever you want to call
them, and I guarantee you in a couple years they're going to be full,
and you're going to have the same problem.
I'll be one of the first organizations that will argue with about
not -- I want you to -- I want to be compensated for what we do to a
point, because I think we do it well. We broke ground. We are
actually building -- we should have our triage system up -- our
building up and running in October.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Where is that building? And
where is that building?
MR. KEPP: It's in Immokalee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KEPP: The whole campus is in Immokalee. And we
will -- and we are going to be building this.
Anyway, my point is I would really appreciate it, but the
problem is this: I can do all this, but I can't do enforcement. And
that's what's going to stop -- that's going to get it to a point that we
can -- our help and DAS, Humane Society, whoever's participating,
can bring this -- this thing to a manageable issue.
The problem is with enforcement. I just talked to Jamie French
today and had a great conversation out in the hallway with him. And
as he says, our phones ring off the hook. We spend all of our time
out riding from case to case to case.
Well, doesn't that tell you that there is a big issue out there?
And the fact that our DAS is so full, it tells you the problem lies in
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out the field, and that's what we need. And if they need more
resources, if that's why they say they can't do it, I say give it to them
but hold them accountable and give them the ordinances, and, like,
when fines are given, attach it to the property. Some of these
landlords may not like that, but that's what's going to change things.
So I hope that -- I want to see -- this hobby breeder ordinance
will put a lot of meat into -- and give them a lot of the ability to
enforce our rules and put citations out, and hopefully they can -- we
can change the citation process so we can actually collect money,
so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How much time do you
need -- does the general public need to give us feedback on this
ordinance so we can redraft it? How much -- can we continue this --
MR. KEPP: I could do it next week. And I think that most of
the public would agree with what I say because I --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we --
MR. KEPP: I was on the advisory board when we wrote it, and
so it's already really been approved by the public.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we bring it back the first
meeting in July --
MR. KEPP: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and have you work with the
public and get me the comments. Because like I said, I don't know
anything about hobby breeders, and I don't really want to learn.
MR. KEPP: Okay. I appreciate that, because I understand it,
and I will do that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then on the issue of what can
we do -- I understand the enforcement issue. That's something that,
perhaps, the manager can delve into and give us some guidance. But
in terms of other partnering with your group and other groups, we
need them to come back with some proposals on what they can do.
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MR. KEPP: Well, I did send you a few items that would help us
in Immokalee. I think we need money for our -- on the cat -- cat and
dog issues are different. On the feral cat, we have been now
doing -- we're working with the Immokalee farmworkers
organization while we're under construction. They've given us some
building to use for the feral cats, and that's in Immokalee.
But I'm meeting actually on Friday with a couple groups here on
how our already existing spay/neuter clinic can maybe start helping
and maybe build that whole program. It takes money, but again, we
work as hard as we can to raise money out of the community to do it.
But any help we can get on that.
But like the county, we need vets and vet techs, and that's
something that maybe the county, in general, can help with the whole
community as far as maybe working with some of the colleges or -- I
don't know the answer to that, but maybe we can work on it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is there anybody on the Board that
would want to take the lead on something like that? And my
assumption is probably not; that we want to rely on our staff. But,
you know, I've tried to, but I just don't have the knowledge to
really -- and time to really jump into all the details.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I've already started talking
with our Domestic Animal Services director about some options for
some of these areas where we could be augmented by outside
agencies, so we can certainly gather all of those ideas together.
We're going to be having a conversation about expanded services at
DAS as part of the budget. So we can bring back those ideas, and
we'll continue to work with Mr. Kepp and For Love of Cats. They
have great ideas about where they can help in the community.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And on the enforcement issue,
perhaps there's some guidance you can provide.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We've also been working on that
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as part of the budget. So we'll be coming back with some
recommendations on how we -- how we build that enforcement up a
bit.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Miller, anybody else registered
to speak?
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
Mr. Kepp, anything else?
MR. KEPP: No. But we did have our 5K at the Paradise Coast
park the other day, and it was a good experience. We had about 500
people out there. That was our first one out there. I'm on the Gulf
Coast -- Coast board, runner's board, and so it was a -- we had a
really good race out there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Hey, Tom. Just in a quick nutshell.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Am I lit up or no?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on just a second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What is a hobby breeder, and what
do you want to make it to?
MR. KEPP: Well, like I said, they use this word "hobby
breeder." It wasn't particularly mine. That was brought up
someplace else.
I look at it as people -- it all came up when those pet stores were
all getting -- we wanted to permit the pet stores. And the bottom line
is, what it's defined by is anybody that has one -- any puppies or
kittens, basically. And if you have two or more litters a year, then I
think it translates into a commercial breeder.
The problem is there's -- no one out there can define a
commercial breeder because if you don't -- just -- there's no way to
prove that people are selling them. They re-home them. They this,
you know, whatever.
May 27, 2025
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So the bottom line is it's -- it should be the same thing across the
board. Anybody that has -- has a litter, even accidently, should be
required to keep them at least, I say, eight weeks, but six weeks. In
other words, the puppies need to be with their mother and fed food.
They should be required to have a health certificate before they
give them away or sell them, because believe me, the people that I
just explained about that just have them under their carport or their
garage or anything, they're not going to do that. And if they're
required to spend $200 per puppy and they get caught and have to
pay the fines, and literally pay them, they're not going to get another
dog.
They have to have them chipped. They have to have -- well, the
health certificates, and on the proposed -- the one that we did a few
years ago, it also that says if you -- no matter whether you give them
away, sell them, or whatever, you have to keep a record of however
you transferred ownership to them.
Now, the county probably has a problem with that one because
they've got to collect the records, and I get that. But still, the people I
know that are abusing this system are not going to do these things.
And if you really come down on them, you'll cut out 25 to 50 percent
of all the -- I know dogs. You won't have them here to have to deal
with running lose or biting people or dying in the streets or whatever.
So with that -- with that being said, anybody that has puppies or
kittens is a breeder.
Now, the feral cat problem is a different story because
that's -- that's why we need to put so much money into spray and
neuter of -- you know, trap and release programs. And if we do those
two things, I'm telling you five years from now, you won't ever have
to listen to me again. Of course, at my age you might not have to
listen to me anyway.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
May 27, 2025
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MR. KEPP: Guys, thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't go away. I'm going to
bring --
MR. KEPP: This is the first time I've ever been invited back --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going to ask Jamie to
come to the podium just to -- forgive me. I put a piece of candy
in -- just to give us a brief reiteration of the issues we're having with
enforcement. I mean, we're having -- we've combined Code
Enforcement with DAS, and where are we at with those efforts as far
as the actual enforcement goes?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. Thank you, Commissioners. Again,
Jamie French for the record.
So, Commissioner, this group transferred over a little less than a
year ago, and so just right after the first of the year we did that
combination. We've actually had more arrests, working with the
Sheriff's Office, than we've had in the past.
We still maintain 100 percent conviction; however, compliance
is not a light switch, and these investigations do take time. And your
average -- your average inspector -- even if we can hire a fully
certified state -- they'd be a state certified animal control officer,
which is what they're required to be. We maintain a staffing level.
You've got 13, 14 FTEs. When this group transferred over, we had
about seven. And that is now down to probably about five or six
because -- they do go through, as -- and we've seen it with even Tom
and the organizations he works with, that compassion stress that goes
into the job.
Your animal control officers spend about -- somewhere between
100 and 120 miles a day of windshield time covering this 2,000 miles
of this county. And so we have brought in Code Enforcement to try
to go towards the problem of the property.
So if we go in, we see illegal kennels that have been constructed,
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we will write them on a code violation. But this does take time. And
as Tom said, as we -- as we grow in our population, we see new
behaviors occur. Some of it may be cultural as far as the way they
treat their animal. We don't agree with it. But through education,
through enforcement, and perhaps bringing in some additional
resources, whether it be outside agencies that work with us, like
Tom's group, like For the Love of Cats, but also it is going to require
a little bit more staffing on the enforcement side.
They're -- right now, sir, they're working 10-hour shifts. At any
given time, you've got maybe three to four animal control officers on
the road each day, seven days a week from 7:30 in the morning till
10 p.m. at night.
And so when we get a call, their roster may be 12 or 15 calls in
one day, and they could range from Marco Island to Immokalee to
the City of Naples to North Naples all divided up amongst those three
people.
So I would tell you the biggest issue we have is not having
enough time to do those investigations and the follow-up. That's one
of the things we're looking at. We're sending Code in now. For
example, we had a call in on an animal retailer. And we've sent in
even park rangers. We've sent in -- I sent James Hanrahan in just to
go -- only because he was in the area. I had him stop by and take
photos, because we got some complaints about the way the staff was
acting to the dogs or the way perhaps the animals were being kept. It
was all unfounded, but so often it's that one time when we do find it
that we get a conviction that we have that ah-ha moment that we did a
good job.
Many times we don't find a violation. We go out there; we
inspect the facility. Yes, they have -- perhaps it's a running at-large.
We write them a ticket. But it is -- it is a myriad of different
behaviors that we've seen all throughout the county.
May 27, 2025
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We ran into that issue quite
some time ago when this ordinance first came forward, and, you
know, there was a -- there was a retailer that was wanting to come to
town, and there were a lot of misnomers with regard to the retail sale
of animals and the condition of those animals and that sort of thing,
and it -- some of it -- some of them probably were, in fact, true of
other vendors.
But I -- my primary question for you is, are there enhancements
to the actual enforcement code that we can do as a board to help your
people do their job?
I mean, Mr. Kepp brought up a very valid point of penalization
of the property where the infraction, in fact, occurs, whether it
be -- and I don't know from a legality standpoint, are we allowed to
impose a lien against a tenant on a rental piece of property?
MR. FRENCH: You can put a personal lien against the person.
It goes against their credit. Now, I would have to defer to the County
Attorney's Office as to if you could go as far as wage garnishment.
That's one of the things we are looking at. So if somebody decides
I've got $500 worth of fines to the county, I don't own anything, I
don't care about my credit, I'm not paying you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. FRENCH: But if we could get into wage garnishment, that
is a tool we've not used. Certainly, this board has taken a different
position on the collection of fines against properties, and we
appreciate you for doing that.
As I've said to Thomas, as I've said to your Domestic Animal
Services Advisory Board, if we can't change your behavior by hitting
you in the wallet, I don't know what else we can do. And I will tell
you the Sheriff's Office arresting people and prosecuting them with
the State Attorney's Office, that we're hopeful that that has certainly
changed some behaviors. But these advancements have come very
May 27, 2025
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slowly.
MR. KEPP: Can I -- first of all, I don't have any compassion
fatigue. I like what I do. And the second is, this -- Jamie, again, I'm
trying to help. I'm trying to help. I want better stakes. This idea of
100 percent, what was the term you used? A hundred percent --
MR. FRENCH: Conviction.
MR. KEPP: -- convictions, I don't understand that, and
somebody's going to have to -- because I'm having a very, very
difficult time getting --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Let's --
MR. KEPP: -- public records now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me interrupt, because it's
getting late, and getting back and forth on this is not going to be
particularly productive.
We've given staff some direction. We need your help, and we
need -- Jamie, we need your help. First meeting in July, we need to
have solutions. And all the rhetoric doesn't matter. So let's move on,
if you don't --
MR. KEPP: Absolutely, fine.
Thank you so much. I do appreciate you hearing me out, and I'll
have everything -- and hopefully I can get some meetings with Amy,
and thank all of you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So I'll make a motion to continue
the hobby breeder's ordinance until the first meeting in July, direct
staff to work with the various providers on how they -- we can
partner with them to deal with some of those stray animals and
everything that we're -- all those issues. And I think that -- and also
to come back if you have any recommendations on enhancing
enforcement.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that July 7th? What date?
May 27, 2025
Page 191
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
MS. PATTERSON: July -- sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It can't be the 7th. It could be the
July 8th.
MS. PATTERSON: July 8th. July 8th.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: July 8th, okay. Continue to
July 8th.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
I think it was seconded, but if not --
COMMISSIONER HALL: It was.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, we both seconded at the
same time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Good. Good, good.
Item #11B
REVIEW STAFF FINDINGS OF THE BOARD-DIRECTED ON-
SITE EVALUATION OF PARKING CAPACITY FOR VARIOUS
MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS WITHIN COLLIER COUNTY,
PROVIDE DIRECTION TO STAFF REGARDING POLICY ON
PARKING DEVIATIONS AND ADMINISTRATIVE PARKING
REDUCTIONS FOR MULTIFAMILY PROJECTS, AND PROVIDE
May 27, 2025
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DIRECTION ON ADJUSTING THE ADOPTED PARKING
STANDARDS THROUGH AN AMENDMENT TO THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE. (MICHAEL BOSI, DIVISION
DIRECTOR - PLANNING & ZONING) - DIRECTING STAFF TO
DROP THE ISSUE – CONSENSUS
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 11B.
This is a recommendation to review staff findings of the
board-directed on-site evaluation of parking capacity for various
multifamily developments within Collier County, provide direction to
staff regarding policy on parking deviations and administrative
parking reductions for multifamily projects, and provide direction on
adjusting the adopted parking standards through an amendment to the
Land Development Code.
Mr. Michael Bosi, your division director of Planning and
Zoning, is here to present.
MR. BOSI: Good afternoon, again. Mike Bosi, Planning and
Zoning director.
This is a parking study that started off on October 22nd in 2024.
Board asked staff to compare our standards for multifamily parking
against other standards in Southwest Florida. We provided that. We
came back. Compared 11 other Florida jurisdictions. Identified
car -- it was right about in the middle, middle to low in terms of the
overall demand in parking requirement.
And the Board said, "Well, let's see if there's a larger issue
here," and directed staff to go out, look at a number of these -- of
these multifamily apartment complexes and see, do we, in fact, have
a parking problem from a multifamily standpoint. And that's what
we did.
This is just the current standards. You know, for an efficiency,
it's a half of a space. For a one-bedroom, it's .75. For two bedrooms
May 27, 2025
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or more, it's one space per unit. And then you've got additional
parking for your administrative offices as well as your recreational
facilities. But that's just giving you a baseline of where we're at
today.
The study that we've conducted was 12 communities
representing a broad cross-section of multifamily. So that's four
townhome communities, four multifamily complexes that had
administrative parking reductions, and seven communities without
APR.
Prior to each on-site visit, staff reviewed whether there was any
approved parking reductions, prior parking-related code enforcement
complaints, and then also the SDP and the construction plats for these
facilities.
It was basically a windshield survey conducted between
February 11th and March 4th. I think you would say that would
probably be the height of season. And we did it between 6:30 and
8 o'clock at night. So this was when -- after your 9 to 5 work shift
was done, and it was done Tuesday through Thursday. So we really
tried to identify the highest point for when we were going to go out
and do these facilities.
And every time that we went out, the staff asked the same
questions: Is there enough parking for residents, visitors, and service
vehicles? What percentage of the parking is occupied or vacant? Are
there -- are there any issues with illegally parked cars or other
parking-related nuisances? Does the site have designated space for
guest parking, for handicapped parking, and other needs? And are
parking issues an enforcement issue, or is there insufficient public
parking?
Here's all the communities we went to. Aster, Marco Shores,
the Crest, The Ranch at Orange Blossom, Meadow Lake Apartments,
Naples Walk, St. Croix at Pelican March, Allura, Largo Apartments,
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Summit Place in Naples, Ole of Lely Resorts, and Avalon Woods.
And the only place that our observations detected an insufficient
number of spaces was The Ranch at Orange Blossom, and it
happened to be, I believe -- Commissioner McDaniel was one of the
ones who started the conversation for this study, and it was
specifically because of the parking deficiencies at The Ranch at
Orange Blossom.
What we observed, that there was about 10 to 12 unlawfully
parked vehicles. Most of it had to be related to on-street and
off-street parking issues. And the unique fact about that is that
facility actually has more than the required parking standards would
demand of that facility.
The conclusion that staff has arrived upon is there's some
characteristics of that individual townhouse development that has
created a continuous parking issue, and it's almost now -- it's a code
enforcement case. I'm not -- I don't -- they've provided for, like I
said, 14 percent above the required minimum parking standards, and
this was the only facility that we saw that still had illegal parking
conducted throughout.
And this was just the standards. This is the comparison of the
12 places we compared Collier to. We came out at -- our requirement
would have been 528. The most spaces that could have been required
would have been Broward County with 518 spaces with the -- for the
same type of development.
So the conclusions: Orange Blossom Ranch was the only
multifamily community of the 12 observed with a significant parking
issue. Based upon the amount of empty driveways observed within
The Ranch at Orange Blossom and the under-provided public
accessible, parking -- parking staff determined that your focus should
really be upon townhome style of development. If -- any of the
multifamily structures, the suggested -- an alignment with, you know,
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maybe a need for additional parking would be the townhome style of
development.
We have observed no parking issues with the five multifamily
communities with approved APRs that were providing for less
parking than what the code required. We discovered that there was
no parking issues associated with those that we observed. And we're
looking for direction.
One of the things that came from the direction for staff to go out
and do this study was to put a hold on APRs, which are
administrative parking reductions. So that has -- we haven't
processed any APRs to date because of that Board-directed, and we're
looking for direction.
One of the issues that were contemplated was if we found -- or
should we increase the demand for our parking studies, what we
found would suggest that there's not a -- there's not an overburden of
deficient facilities from a parking standpoint. It was only one in
particular that had it.
One of the other things that I do want to mention to you, and this
dates back to the Senate Bill 250, would put the prohibition upon
adopting any additional, more restrictive LDC standards because of
the -- because of Hurricane Ian. Well, that has been extended by
Senate Bill 180. It's not October 1st of 2026. It's now October 1st of
2027 before we can make any additional more restrictive language or
regulations added to our LDC.
And with that, seeking some direction from the Board, one on
the issue of would you like us to go out and look at additional parking
standards? Maybe not for all multifamily sites, but maybe for
townhome development, we could look and see if there is any
suggested unique ways that other jurisdictions are treating
townhomes that maybe are different than your other multifamily
complexes. But also on the issue of APRs. Would the Board still
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like us to -- to have a freeze on those APRs, or based upon the study,
are you okay with staff moving forward with APRs as they are
submitted?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and, you know, you
bring up a lot of points.
Number 1, thank you. I -- this brings a lot of finality to the
subject matter. I do have to say that the allowances within the APRs
are counterintuitive to me. We're a driving society.
I guess my question to you is, do you -- do you -- do
you -- would you like for us to continue -- or discontinue the APRs,
or are you okay going forward with them?
MR. BOSI: Well, we have a -- we have an -- it's kind of an
unwritten policy. It's 15 to 18 percent is kind of the edge limits what
we do for an APR, and we really put a -- more of a leaning
towards -- and what we find is the affordable housing communities
really provide us with some solid justification for the reductions of
the 10 or 15 percent. And what we've found is those facilities have
not had parking issues associated with them.
So staff would be comfortable moving forward with evaluating
APRs as they come in. If the Board felt that it was becoming an
issue, I'm sure you would let staff know that maybe we needed to
stop that.
But from a staff perspective, I think we should probably look at
the townhome development and the way that they have their parking,
and it's -- normally it's two cars, you know, per driveway. But for
some reason, the townhouse facility out in Orange Blossom Ranch
just has unique characteristics towards where there -- you know, that
two per -- two per townhouse isn't providing sufficient. And they did
have guest parking available, but even that wasn't sufficient, and I'm
not sure why that -- the characteristics of that -- of those units have
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resulted in a parking anomaly that we're not seeing at any other
facilities.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, maybe -- my
recommendation is stand down. Let it go. There may be -- there may
be other issues that -- a lot has to do with demographics, has to do
with population. There are, culturally, people who like to live
multi-generationally. There may be more people living in one
particular townhome than are supposed to be there or what was
contemplated for the size and bedrooms and so on and so forth.
So I thank you for doing that, for doing the study, but I don't see
any need to go forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. No one is lit up at this
point. And I think you've got directions, if the Board agrees with it.
I certainly have no objection to status quo, and I assume that's
what you're basically talking about.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anybody else have any objections
to just dropping this issue and moving on?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Go for it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move on.
MR. BOSI: Thank you. Thank you.
Item #11D
AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE TO PURCHASE A
0.53-ACRE PROPERTY CURRENTLY ZONED C-4 AT A
PURCHASE PRICE OF $1.25 MILLION FOR THE FUTURE
EMS/FIRE STATION EXPANSION OF STATION 21 IN EAST
NAPLES. (JOHN DUNNUCK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR -
FACILITIES & REDEVELOPMENT) - MOTION TO APPROVE
BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
May 27, 2025
Page 198
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL/KOWAL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 11D.
This is a recommendation to approve and execute an agreement for
sale and purchase, to purchase a .53-acre property currently zoned
C-4 at a purchase price of 1.25 million for the future EMS/fire station
expansion of Station 21 in East Naples.
Mr. John Dunnuck, your executive director of Facilities and
Redevelopment, is here to present.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me -- if I might, I think you
probably met with everybody on this issue.
MS. PATTERSON: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Does anybody have any questions?
It seemed pretty straightforward.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm glad to hear you say that.
This is an important one to me.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll make a motion to approve it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Hey, it's my district.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: In that case, I'll make a motion to
deny their -- to not do this.
All right. Commissioner LoCastro makes a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This is his district.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And Commissioner McDaniel --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He seconded.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal has
seconded it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And I'll just be quiet.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and second. All
May 27, 2025
Page 199
in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It passes unanimously.
MR. DUNNUCK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Item #11E
ACCEPT A PRESENTATION ON FACILITIES MANAGEMENT
TO INCLUDE PROPOSED STRATEGIES RELATING TO
DEFERRED MAINTENANCE, SPACE UTILIZATION, PUBLIC
SAFETY, SECURITY, AND MASTER PLANNING. (JOHN
DUNNUCK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR - FACILITIES &
REDEVELOPMENT) PRESENTED AND DISCUSSED
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Well, John might not need to run
away because he's -- oh, he's getting his props.
That brings us to Item 11E. This is a recommendation to accept
a presentation on Facilities Management to include proposed
strategies relating to deferred maintenance, space utilization, public
safety, security, and master planning.
And again, Mr. John Dunnuck, your executive director of
Facilities and Redevelopment, is here to present, and he's handing out
some stuff right now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just want it to be noted that
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Page 200
Commissioner Hall nor I got any prizes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, these are --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Our stuff's all good.
MR. DUNNUCK: It's show and tell. We share.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: These items are now public record,
so we'll ask the Clerk if she could file these after we're finished.
MS. KINZEL: It's all electronic.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I feel like we're on an episode
of Shark Tank, and he's coming forward and showing us something.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He's showing us new granite.
MR. DUNNUCK: I've got presents for you.
Before I kick off into this presentation, you know, it's one of
these things where we understand the competing interests, right.
You've got -- Utilities has got issues. Transportation has issues.
DAS has issues. We all have challenges with funding future
requests. And so when I came into Facilities -- you know, I've been
here for about six months, and I promised Commissioner LoCastro I
would do kind of an initial SWAT analysis and say, "Where are we?
Where do we need to go? What do we need to do?"
And -- excuse me. And so the first thing I started asking staff
was, you know, where do we have building issues? And so,
Commissioner LoCastro, that is a gift from Tigertail Beach. That is
the restroom facility. The other two props are actually the caps -- the
brackets that were holding up Sun-N-Fun. And so you can kind of
see, if you take a peek at them, the condition that they were in.
Exactly.
And so, you know, I said, "Start gathering this kind of stuff up,"
because I want to talk about -- and I know it's 4:20 on Tuesday, and
you've been here all day -- you know, deferred maintenance. And,
you know, it's not sexy to talk about it, but it's a -- you know, in my
opinion, two of the things I'm most proud about in previous places
May 27, 2025
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I've worked at is that you develop a plan, and you work a plan, and
you create sustainability throughout that process. And so you
basically -- you stick with it, you figure out ways -- it's a living
document. And I'll talk to you about previous plans in a second. But
the fact of the matter is, you've got to develop a plan.
And so I asked Brian, I said, you know, let's, you know, go high
tech, where I'll old school and show props. I'm, like, let's go high
tech and let's put -- all this information that we have, let's put them
into one of these AI apps, and let's look at it and spit out a picture of,
like, exactly what it is we're doing in terms of the Facility department
right now, and this is what it came up with.
Basically, you know -- and say this in jest -- it's plugging holes
in the dike. We are woefully behind in kind of our planning effort for
staying ahead of some of our capital. And this isn't anybody's
specific fault. This is an issue of COVID coming over a period of
time and rerouting hurricanes and allowance for deviations and plans
where you don't have the opportunity to work through it.
The Board's been great, and I'll show it in a second, about
starting to beef up the funding side of it, but it's also beefing up the
planning side of it. And I'm going to talk about that in a second.
You know, today's objective, it's really kind of a four-step
process. It's really three at the heart of things in terms of how we see
the plan fitting together. The first is a strategy to actually define the
problem which is, what is our deferred maintenance cost? You
know, when I was at Broward College, I made sure every one of my
governing board members knew exactly what our deferred
maintenance cost was. They knew it was $95 million, $93 million.
Every year we'd update them. Did the scorecard get better or get
worse? So they knew exactly what that was.
And when I look at our plans right here, we do not have a good
handle on what our deferred maintenance is. We have kind of high
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swag analysis of we think it's this, here's the asset value, here's the
average life of things. Where do we go from here? And so I want to
get a good handle on that.
The second in that is space utilization. Where are we today, and
where do we need to go? What is the efficiency of how we're
operating today?
You know, one of the things Amy and I have done quite a bit of
is we've done some walk-arounds. We've been looking at facilities
and saying, where is it heavily utilized? Where's it underutilized?
So then when you start looking at the condition assessment, you
can start looking at, then, what is the efficiency of what you have?
And so we kind of have a second step in that process, and I'll get
into a little bit more detail, to walk you through that.
The third, then, is security; safety and security. Over the
past -- and I'll show you kind of the org chart in where we've been is
we have kind of rolled leadership roles up so high that I have people
who are head of Maintenance that are also head of Security. They're
also doing other special projects in day to day that they're not doing a
good handle on all of these things, and we'll talk you through that.
And then the fourth is when you take all of these things into
consideration, you develop a master plan. And it's an inclusive
master plan. Some of your previous master plans -- and I'll show
you -- have been a little bit of piecemeal. They've talked about the
main campus here. They've talked about going out east.
They haven't really been looking at a holistic approach. They
haven't looked at actually all the master plans that exist that we're
working with, between the jails, the fire, and so forth. So when
you're doing land acquisition, are we looking at land acquisition in a
strategic manner? And so we kind of wanted to walk you through
that as well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Dunnuck, if you could get to a
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point where there would be a natural break, I know our court
reporter -- she is looking a little bit --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Beautiful.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's always, but a little tired right
now. So can you get to a point where there would be a good break,
and let's take a 10-minute break for the court reporter.
MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. Let me -- let me walk you through
about three more slides, and then I think we can get to that kind of
action-item discussion, because I'll keep this thing moving.
In 2008, we did a master plan study that was kind of government
center based. It looked mainly at this campus and the future of where
we go with Heritage Bay, because that was some land that we had
acquired through -- through the GMD process.
In 2017, we had a master plan that actually was pretty good in
the fact that it actually looked at the value and condition assessments
of our buildings. It kind of rated them in terms of, you know, A, B,
C, D, and F and kind of said, you know, here's something to look out
for for the future on where we're headed, but it also stopped short of
kind of taking us to the next level in terms of where we needed to go.
In 2019, a master plan discussion was had in a workshop that
really talked about moving things east, and it was really kind of a
shift from on campus to let's move things to the east. And a lot of
those things -- in each one of these plans, there were things that were
executed and moved forward. I'm not saying there weren't. But the
fact of the matter is, they were stagnant, and they stopped. In 2019,
they stopped. In 2017, it stopped. It wasn't a living plan that as you
guys are evaluating items looking at it saying, "Okay, is this in the
master plan? Is this not in the master plan? Does this shift the
master plan? What does it have a cause and effect of?" And where I
want to go with the master plan is something that actually is a living
document that we work with towards the future.
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The quick assessment that I looked at in the department is there
was no planning arm in our Facilities department. There was actually
nothing -- nobody dedicated to the planning effort of where we are
moving for the future. So when you did a reorganization or you
moved bodies around or you had increases in FTE counts, that was
all reactionary to everything we were doing. We did not have a
Facilities, you know, dedicated area to say, "Where do we head to in
the future?"
There's no staff redundancy in key leadership positions. When I
stepped in, you know, Brian was -- Brian DeLony, who's the director,
he was holding three different hats. He was actually acting as the
project manager supervisor and as a project manager actively in
there.
James Williams, same thing on the Maintenance side. He was
holding onto the maintenance side, he was acting as project manager
for DAS, and he was also dealing with the security side of things,
not -- and the financial administration of it.
So, you know, we're going to talk to how we get to some of
those -- got to some of those fixes.
System tools at the end of life no longer in existence. We
actually had no system of record for tracking everything. We had
one, but it was kind of -- it's at the -- it was at the end of life, and we
had no plan for the future. So we've been working on building that
system back up.
And then the last assessment I mentioned to you, of all county
facilities, was completed in 2017. So we're eight years removed from
the last assessment that was done.
The quality of our AUIR, from our perspective, is probably a
two-year window when it should be quality of up to five years. It's
really about a two-year window in terms of how we've done our
planning side of it, and that gets back to no planning arm.
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And then I mentioned before the average age of a building is 25
years. And I don't want to skew that -- because I can pull it up if
necessary -- but the majority of our buildings were built in the 1990s.
And so you see that 2000 -- you have outliers with the museum and
other places in the Everglades, but the majority of our buildings were
actually built in the '90s. So we're sitting at 25 years -- 25, 30 years
of building construction that is in need of some refresh.
Systems of recordkeeping. Public Utilities, Cityworks. They
use Cityworks. Growth Management Plan uses CityView.
Transportation, Cardiograph. Facilities was using EndoVision, which
I mentioned to you was end of life.
We are moving to Cardiograph and to Arc GIS. We have done
those contracts, so we are moving forward with the plan. And this
will be the central clearinghouse of all the data that you gather so that
we have that in one place for the future so it becomes the living
document of work order systems, project needs, and set forth.
And before I get into this part of it, this is probably a good time
to take the break.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we come back at 4:40.
So we'll take a 10-minute break.
(A brief recess was had from 4:30 p.m. to 4:40 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're all set to continue.
MR. DUNNUCK: So one of the points I always want to make is
it's not what you see. It's what you don't see. And you can see on the
right-hand side in this picture this is a set of old chiller lines from one
of our buildings that we pulled out. You can see the condition it's in.
And so when you're going to see me talking about moving forward
with a project here on our campus -- we're building the new chiller
right now, but we have to replace all the chiller lines on this campus
as well. They're sitting in underground heavy sulfur areas, and it's
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time for replacement. And this is one of the recommendations we're
going to be coming forward with surtax money with the interest rate
from the surtax to fund.
But some of the key facilities I wanted to talk about, this
administration building was built in 1974. We had a condition
assessment done. Well, it was part of the 2017 condition assessment
that said keep an eye on it. More recently, after the hurricanes,
we -- we did another additional assessments for it to look at the
feasibility, and basically, from a structural standpoint, we're okay, but
from a -- when you look at the bones inside this building, you're
going to have a lot of investment costs, and you're going to be
dealing with a lot of issues.
We have -- our access control has to be completely revamped in
here. Our fire suppression has to be completely revamped in here.
And you get to the point where you start saying, when are we going
to start planning for a new facility? Because a facility of this
magnitude, at 90,000 square feet, is going to take some effort in the
planning, and where do you put it on the campus while you keep
continuity of operations? And so those are some of the challenges.
But one of the people I wanted to invite here today was a young
lady by the name of Korrin Wagar who's got a speaker slip, but I
think this may be an appropriate time. She sent me an email -- she
sent me an email -- she sent the Board an email approximately two
and a half months ago talking about trying to get in and out of the
elevators here.
And I responded back to her, and said, "We are where we are.
We've looked at how we would improve the elevators." The shafts
aren't wide enough to do an improvement here. We'd have to tear
them both down at the same time to deal with it. And if you're
looking at an exterior elevator or something that was an add-on to
this building, you're talking about exorbitant costs and challenges
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with that.
I did mention at the time when I sent her that email a few
months ago that I would invite her to this discussion, because we've
been planning this effort for a while, and let her share a little bit of
her perspective of ingress and egress out of this building.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We need to wait j ust a
moment to get another microphone.
MR. MILLER: That one was dying.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything you want to fill us in
while we're waiting?
MR. DUNNUCK: No. Just in terms of the structural analysis
we did in this building is this building absorbs a lot of twisting and
heavy wind events, and we've had windows blow out in some of our
storm events. If you heard some of the noise outside earlier today,
it's because, you know, Brian and his team are actively having a
contractor re-caulk these windows to ensure that we are stopping
water penetration.
One of the things, obviously, we're always constantly battling in
South Florida is our building envelopes, and I'll talk a little bit about
that later. But you're always looking at your roofs, your air
conditionings, and your windows and doors to make sure that you're
keeping the building from water getting inside of it.
Another issue that I was kind of joking about, too, is a lot of
times when they decorate these buildings, they put planter boxes
engraved into the side of the buildings, and they look nice, but when
they attract water and they keep water inside of them, they cause an
acceleration of these buildings from a standpoint of dealing with
spalling and other issues, and that's something we're dealing with in
this facility as well. And so --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we might be ready to go.
MR. DUNNUCK: I think we're ready to go.
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MR. MILLER: I warned her wireless was dying. It died.
MS. WAGAR: Hi. Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name
is Korrin Wagar. I'm a retired combat veteran. I'm vaccine injured
and now in a wheelchair following a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis,
epilepsy, and Lyme disease.
My life has evolved very much since my diagnosis and learned
very quickly that accessibility has become a very important concern
for me and others who are like me who are in a wheelchair or other
medical assisted devices.
Anytime I want to go shopping, go on a boat, eat at a restaurant,
visit an office or a government building or attend a sporting event, I
have to ask: Is the entire building accessible? Can I get into the
building? Are there certain portions of the building that are
accessible to me? Is there no elevator? Is the elevator large enough
to accommodate my wheelchair?
And then I also have to ask about bathrooms. A lot of times
facilities, maybe the building portion may be accessible, but the
bathroom is not.
The elevators here are very difficult to get in and out. It's kind
of like a 10-point turn for me, and it scrapes the side and damages my
wheelchair, so I have to get the VA to help me with fixing my
wheelchair.
Getting in and out in the bathroom is very difficult as well, to
get into the stall, to be able to transfer onto the toilet and get back,
and then open the door, and then to be able to utilize the facilities
from the water, getting the soap, reaching the soap, and all that, it's
not accessible. So it's very, very difficult for us in wheelchairs.
I want to ensure that accessibility is at the forefront of planning
when building, constructing, or renovating instead of being an
afterthought. Sometimes it feels like that. When you walk into a
building, it's like, "Oh, I guess you don't want me here."
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Accessibility is incredibly important, so it needs to be at the
forefront of every single plan, every single construction, every single
building permit so that we don't feel like we're not being
acknowledged.
Most of the time when I bring up these issues of accessibility, I
will either get a deer in the headlight look or I will get a
panic-stricken one where the individual will struggle to provide an
adequate response of how I can get into the building, how I can
access my representatives, my congressmen, my senators, or anybody
that I wish to speak to to promote, you know, goodness for the
community.
There's nothing more frustrating than wanting to enter a building
and participate or attend an event and not be able to because of the
flexibility issues.
All I ask is that you keep accessibility at the forefront of
planning, adequate clearances for wheelchairs, including ingress and
egress for emergency responders, the gurneys, and their emergency
response equipment.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me ask Mr. Dunnuck a quick
question. On the newer buildings that we have built, like the county
building up at -- off Immokalee Road, that new facility there, are they
in compliance?
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So --
MR. DUNNUCK: Our facilities are in compliance for the age
that the code was adopted. Now, over time, it's evolved, and things
along those lines, where it would be out of compliance by today's
standards, but our new facilities meet all code compliances.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Because I agree with you, we have
to make sure that that, No. 1, we're in compliance with the law, which
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requires it, but just the fact that we want you to be able to get up here.
Now, this building is -- you know, it is what it is.
MR. DUNNUCK: Yep.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any comments from the Board?
Any additional comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then thank you very much.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And we will try to accommodate
you as best we can when you want to be here.
MS. WAGAR: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And if that means we have to send
somebody downstairs to represent -- you know, if somebody from
Congressman Donalds' office has to go downstairs because it's just
un-accessible, then we'll make that happen.
All right. Thank you.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What branch of service were
you in? What branch?
MS. WAGAR: United States Air Force.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Me, too. Me, too. Come on.
We've got to get this done for her. Thanks for your service.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you for your service.
MS. WAGAR: Thank you.
MR. DUNNUCK: And so you look at a building from 1974,
and then you translate into the Health Department, which is our
next -- one of our significant buildings on this campus, was built in
1989 -- I know there was a lot of talk when we were going through
the David Lawrence Center and could you relocate there and
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repurpose it -- because in that initial report it had mentioned that
building could go two stories higher than what it is today -- I'd be
willing to guess that by today's code standards, they wouldn't be
allowed because the structure wouldn't support it below.
But we're in a position right now where that building
infrastructure is at about a $45 million estimate just to repair the basic
infrastructure of the building; the HVAC, structural, electrical,
needing upgrades.
And so we're actually in that process of trying to
determine -- and this is what these studies will help us do -- is it
a -- there again, part of a master plan teardown, or do you invest that
money and just do the repair?
And so that's the pro and the con of what we kind of go through
in these processes because you don't want to invest a bunch of money
and then turn around and have to tear it down right after you've
invested that money.
And we want to be sure, from our side, that we're being
methodical and strategic about how we handle the taxpayers' dollars.
Just on campus, Risk Management, 1961, you'll see some of
these first-level flight buildings here. Human Resources, 1960. In
Risk Management, we just were plugging a lot of holes because we
had penetrations inside the building, and if I'm being frank, we had
rats in the building that we had to deal with. And we've got a good
handle on it now, but we found penetrations where we didn't think
penetrations existed in dealing with it.
And so, there again, we want to get into this idea of really
figuring out how you replace these buildings in a meaningful way
that's inclusive of everybody.
This is just one of those -- I threw a bunch of pictures together
for my team. And I kind of work over to the red picture up in the
middle top only because -- you know, it's one of those where my dad
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always said, you can fix anything with duct tape and a hammer, and
this is clearly one of those where it's surrounded with some duct tape.
And -- but this is some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that -- you
know, you can paint a building all day long, but if your
infrastructure's failing behind it, it's not going to do any good. And
so I just kind of wanted to throw a few of these together. And this is
by no means all of them. This is just a sample.
From a work order trend perspective, I thought it would be kind
of important to kind of look at our work order system. And you can
see if you look at over the time being, it's trending upwards in terms
of what we're doing. And, you know, it breaks down kind of the
roof, HVAC, fire systems, sidewalks, and plumbing.
We had a spike in 2022 that was COVID related where we had a
lot of issues going on between, you know, preparing these buildings
and making sure we're -- you know, we were prepared. But the
overall trend is that our work orders are trending up, which is an
analysis of, all things being equal, your buildings are getting older.
I just wanted to do a staffing comparison. We did this back in
2022, so it -- you know, it could be a little dated, but it just kind of
shows an order of magnitude of how our Facilities department, from
a maintenance standpoint, compares against others. If you looked at
us against some of these other counties and their square footage and
what we maintain in square footage and our level of FTE, you would
see the differential of what our position requirement would be.
Now, I will preface this, you know, because I don't want to just
say it's just a staff issue, because we have contractor support, too.
But there's always a balance between contractor support and in-house
staffing.
And so as you get into our FY '26 budget proposal, we're going
to have some key positions of what we're calling, obviously, in the
county budget perspective, hardening positions where they're
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contracted key staff positions that we would like to convert over
because the margin of the cost is very de minimis in terms of having
them be an official county employee versus being a contractor. But
this just gives us a little bit of a perspective of how we're operating as
a staff in efficiency standpoint with other -- with other counties.
I want to, you know, give kudos to the Board. You know, this is
kind of the capital renovation maintenance spend. You can see it was
at 4.7, 4.8 in 2020 and 2021, and the Board has significantly kind of
been pushing it upward.
I think that is a recognition of our need in Facilities. There
again, the issue to me is going to be prioritization. And are we
prioritizing that spend in the best possible manner for the future
because we don't have these assessments, we haven't done the space
utilization, and we haven't done a master plan in a period of time.
We are reacting to breaks and fixes and not getting out ahead of it.
Building the foundation. You know, I don't want to, like, seem
all gloom and doom with everything, because we've done a lot of
good things in the last six months. We've created a project manager
maintenance supervisor position to create redundancies. You know, I
always mention that it's like the -- and I hate to be doom about this,
but say, you know, if so and so -- a person was hit by the bus
tomorrow, who would be the backup to step in?
And in our key leadership roles, we had no backup. We had no
secondary level to support our leadership. And so we have tried
to -- you know, we've added these positions. And I will also tell
you -- this is under the County Manager's and your
leadership -- we've taken from the pool position. We haven't
increased our FTEs. We've taken from those vacancies through
Human Resources that have been created, and we've reprioritized
those positions.
Similarly to that, we have a planning position that we've added
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to be able to start doing the -- managing this project and managing
the projects moving forward in terms of space utilization and our
software and actually have a dedicated resource to the future planning
efforts that we're looking to do.
We've also hired an experienced HVAC tech instead of
outsourcing. That person is a 200 percent savings. We were
outsourcing at double the rate. The same person who was working
for a contractor is now coming to work for us, and we're saving the
county taxpayers money by doing that and having him.
And additionally, the whole concept with him, because he has
probably -- probably got maybe five years left, is to start training the
younger generation. And so he has full knowledge of our systems,
and he can help train the future, and so it was a key hire for us. There
again, no FTE added, just prioritized within the budget.
We're reviewing a proposal with a third-party vendor to assess
the county facilities. When I talk about the facility assessment, we're
working at an avenue -- and the Board has set aside about
$1.3 million already towards this endeavor over the past several
years. This will come under that funded budget, and I'll show you a
little bit later. It will be closer to 800,000 is what we're estimating,
but we also think there's a way that we can piggyback off national
contracts to get this thing going immediately. Instead of doing a
year-long procurement process, these are things that I want to kind of
move as aggressively and fast as possible. That contract, of course,
would come back to the Board for review, but we're moving forward
with it.
I mentioned before we're investing in Cartegraph and Arc GIS
as a system of record. As we move into these -- and when I make the
ask for the space utilization, everything that we identify, we will
require that it gets put into Arc GIS which will be then the input into
Cartegraph which -- you know, from a layman's standpoint,
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Cartegraph helps us with the work order system. Arc GIS is the
spatial system that says, where does everybody sit? Where -- you
know, what does everybody do? What are the systems in place?
How do you find them? How do you track them? How do you do
preventative maintenance? All of that is what we've already worked
in place. We've signed those contracts and are moving forward with
it.
Just from a high level, this is kind of one side of the
organization. And I know this is a very busy chart, so I won't get into
terrible detail about it. But if you kind of look in the light brown
positions, you will see some of the positions of long term we'd like to
harden. It's not going to be the full request in this budget, of course,
but strategically filling some of the vacancies in the green, hiring
some of the ones -- or converting some of the ones in the brown to
longer term, you know, are really key analysis.
One of the other areas we came to was fire. We had basically
one guy doing fire inspections for the whole county. And you have
to have a person of record from the county for every inspection, and
to ask that person to do all of the county, you know, fire inspections
when the fire departments are there, to be there as the person
representing the county, is too much. So there again, we've added a
position, without adding any new expense to the county, through the
pool position portion of it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How's DeLony the only one
with a picture on that thing? What's up with that?
MR. DUNNUCK: He put this chart together.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I just ask a question,
though? That really surprises me. One person in the whole county?
We don't have key trained people in certain fire stations that are
trained to do inspections as well?
MR. DUNNUCK: Well, the guys in the fire station don't
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represent the county facilities side of it. And there again, it's kind of
the -- you know, they're the ones doing the inspections a lot of times,
so you have to have kind of that firewall of who the representative is.
And I'm going to talk a little bit more about that, too, because
part of what we're trying to get back at is that we are the caretaker on
behalf of the Board of County Commissioners of all buildings. I
think over the last several years, it's been more of a decentralized
process where the departments have had a lot more leeway, and
we've been more of a support side of it, customer service oriented
helping out, but really controlling, like, where start -- you know,
there's always this creep that occurs where space becomes vacant,
and then all of a sudden somebody moves into it without telling
anybody else, and it starts expanding, and we want to make sure that
doesn't happen. We want to actually get back to truly being the
caretaker of your county facilities and dealing with that.
But yes, from a fire perspective, we are very limited in our
positions. And we still have a ways to go. But we're -- you know,
with me it's kind of crawl, not run. I'm not going to ask you for four
positions immediately and say, "I need all four." We're going to get
to a couple. We're going to assess, then we'll come forward, and
we'll prove it up to you where the need is and where it's, you
know -- where -- you know, where we have some leeway.
But, you know, we're kind of in that, you know, area of let's
build this baseline here, and then we can continue to grow.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll just offer this. And I know
the military's different, but it's part of the base that I pull from from
my previous life.
At the bases that I commanded where we had 20 fire stations,
like at Andrew's Air Force Base, we used to pick key people in the
fire stations and send them to those facilities' training courses, and
they got extra pay because of it, and it allowed us -- because our civil
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engineer didn't have enough people to do the inspections, and so we
augmented that staff. And they had to go to a specific course. It
might not be what we can do here, but just hearing that there's one is,
I'm sure, concerning to all of us.
MR. DUNNUCK: And we'll continue to look at those models.
You know, part of what I mentioned before is our trades workers
from a standpoint of, you know, our blend of both, you know,
contracted and in-house -- you know, we do a lot of contracted work,
and so the burden on the guys who are the trades workers, we
prioritize those towards their trades and what they're good at first and
foremost.
And so, you know, it's a constant evaluation. Obviously, we
take everybody individually what their skill set is. But from a core,
we wanted to get at, you know, the additional inspection side of it.
You know -- and maintenance, you know -- and, you know,
obviously, you'll see fire, too. Fire also includes, obviously, systems,
right? We've got to take care of the system. So there's inspection and
systems you have to work through in terms of how we're caretaking
for the public safety.
And part of the FY '26 budget is you're going to see some
additional positions -- and I'll mention to you in a minute -- for public
safety. And it's not only public safety of our access control in the
capital side of it, but it's also for the active shooter side of it. Are we
continuing staying up with our plans and our reports? Are we
training, making sure that everybody -- we're working with Dan
Summers' group, working with the Sheriff's Office, working with the
coordination that needs to be done. And so the vision is to get some
additional leadership in there to be concentrating solely on public
safety, which we haven't had for several years.
Deferred maintenance, you know, here's the recommendation I
mentioned before: Hire the third-party consultant. We don't have the
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bandwidth to do it internally. We have way too many facilities to go
around inspecting from our standpoint.
Assess the building envelopes and all the vertical structures,
working with building estimates for repair. This -- the company
we're talking about uses US Means; they're reputable nationally.
Prioritize based on safety and operations. I kind of mentioned
you kind of look on the right side, kind of like the priority list of how
you do facility assessment which kind of speaks all the way from
public safety to, you know, deficiencies.
Integrate findings into the system of record. You know, that's
important to make sure it all gets in the document, make sure it all
gets in the system of records so everything we have has a life beyond
Brian and myself that the next person who comes in can take care of
it.
And then I mentioned before we're looking to utilize Sourcewell
to expedite this. We're going to continue to evaluate it. We're
working with Procurement. It may or may not be the best solution,
but I think we feel pretty good about it at this point in time.
And then the funding is budgeted. I mentioned before, you have
set aside $1.3 million to build up in this plan, this plan -- this part of
it costs about $800,000 to do it. We want to get that going because
this step then leads to the next step. You kind of have to know what
your as-is condition is before you can start working into your to-bes.
Space utilization, you know, this is kind of the Step 2. The
problem definition is we've had a decentralized approach to space
planning, no system of record of where people sit. Like, I couldn't
accurately tell you how much square footage the Clerk has right now.
My goal is to be able to tell you how much -- the square footage the
Clerk has.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's just ask her.
MR. DUNNUCK: And it's that trust but verify, right?
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No. But, no. I'm just using her as an example. But it's that kind
of thing of really having a handle on our departments, where we're at,
and where the future is, and what we're -- we need to schedule.
You know, standards not followed. You can go into one office
space and it's large, one office space and it's small. We have
standards. It's just over time, with organizational changes and moves
and forth, we've lost handle of what those square footage standards
look like and where we're in compliance, where we're out of
compliance. The whole GIS indoor system is going to help us get
there.
So we can -- you know, it's not to say we've got to move
everybody into a square box and everybody has to be absolutely
equal, but it's an evaluation tool to say, "How far out of standards are
we, or are we in our standards?"
I mentioned underutilized space by design. We have a lot of
areas that, frankly, were just designed poorly that have wasted areas.
You know, we -- we walked through the EOC not too terribly long
ago, and you have these big hallways and broken up areas. And I
know, obviously, the design of the time might have made sense, but,
you know, as we go into renovations and you start looking at cost
benefit of adding a building versus renovating a building, you may
want to look at some of those underutilized space areas as we're
working for efficiencies.
And then operational efficiencies. If one thing COVID kind of
taught us is you can operationalize space savings. One of the things
when we're talking about Guardian Ad Litem in their move is they
have found -- and they're, obviously, not an organization of the
county, but they have found that they can work remotely in some
cases, and so their square footage needs in state standards versus
what they're willing to go with in a move is different, it's less,
because they can have three people in the office, the requirement
May 27, 2025
Page 220
three days a week versus all five.
And so as we work with departments and we look at operational
efficiencies, should there be a bullpen because the guy's out in the
field, or does he have a dedicated office. You know, you look at
those kind of things as you're working through facilities.
And then I mentioned to you this [sic] before is daily uses
reports -- and I'll show you in a second. You know, one of the things
that kills me is -- is space that sits vacant 80 percent of the time. You
should always be looking at what is the actual occupancy in a daily
basis, not a, you know, long-period-of-time basis.
But the example I'll use is the training rooms. This is a list of
the training rooms we have on this campus alone. We've got Human
Resources, Risk, Facilities, Public Utilities, Clerk's, Judicial, Sheriff,
IT. And it's territorial. Each one of them serves their own purpose,
but how much are we actually utilizing that training space? How
often are they in there on a daily basis?
And should we start sharing these spaces instead of
programming it out by department? Should we start working in a
manner that, you know, we figure out how a calendar works, and we
can work it that way.
And so, you know -- and then you can repurpose that space for
other needs. And it's just -- to me, it's some level of common sense.
But if you don't have the system in place to do it, you're -- you know,
you don't have a good handle on what you're, you know, trying to get
to in the future.
And I mentioned this before, space utilization from efficiency.
Our recommendation is make sure that it's understood that the Board
owns the space. When we get into discussions about, you know, the
Sheriff's facilities, other areas, you know, we want to make sure that,
ultimately, the responsibility of these facilities is the county and that
we need to be the caretaker.
May 27, 2025
Page 221
And sometimes that means saying no. Sometimes that means
compromise. You know, we'll be the enforcement side of it in
Facilities, but we also need to say that we're taking it back a little bit.
I've had a few discussions between other constitutionals in the
past several months where there are some space requirements on both
sides, and we're trying to work our way to compromise. But
ultimately, it needs to be owned by the county -- the Board of County
Commissioners.
And so one of the things I'm trying to bring back is kind of that
attitude of it needs to work through us. Exactly.
Audit the current space. You know, I mentioned that before.
You've got to see where we're at. We've got to get it documented.
We've got to know where everybody is. Input the data in the system
of record, identify common areas, examine daily usages, and
incorporate these findings into the master planning's efforts.
So if you think about the steps and you say, "Okay, what's the
condition of our facilities?" you're not going to be looking -- if a
building's an F and you want to tear -- it's a teardown, you're not
looking at reutilizing that space. You're looking at moving people
out of that space to somewhere else. But you have to know where
your efficiencies are everywhere else.
And so the first two steps of both looking at the condition of
your buildings and looking at your space utilization truly lead you
into the master planning effort.
I'm going to step away from that for -- just real quick because as
part of this I mentioned to you that there is an underlying issue,
which is a security assessment of public safety. You know, we have
an aging infrastructure. It's great when you have the high-tech stuff
when you start off and access control, and we have our central
control room over at Facilities, but we have a lot of equipment that's
aged out. You know, these are things that should be in a recycling
May 27, 2025
Page 222
plan of every seven years to be in our budget and to be a replacement.
And we have kind of looked at those as capital initiatives and
not looked at them as operational to take care of. And so we have
legacy fire alarm systems. We were on fire watch here for, I want to
say, almost two months because we have a Johnson control unit
system, and here and other facilities -- and that's -- I took the pictures
up above -- that is the old prip -- pri -- pripar -- oh, gosh -- pri -- you
know, old pri -- I can't even say it right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we know what you're trying
to say.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's old.
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes, exactly. That it's so old you can't find
equipment for it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want to see the transcript for
that.
MR. DUNNUCK: I swear it's only water in here.
But yes -- and you have access control units that need
replacement. You know, we've had card access failures we've all
experienced in this building. Security access point needs some
upgrades. And then, as I mentioned, the reoccurring life cycle.
On this other side of it is the security personnel. You know,
making sure we're continuing with the threat assessments. Safety
through design. You know, one of the things is every time you're
looking at a facility, do you have a person with a set of eyes on a new
facility, making sure that they're actually building it with safety in
mind through design where your lighting structures are people's paths
in and out of parking lots. You know, how you do the -- you know,
the landscaping.
And so we're going to be coming to you in the FY '26 budget
with our recommendations to -- you know, for security being one of
our high priorities in Facilities.
May 27, 2025
Page 223
And then the final part is develop the master plan. Complete
Step 1 and 2, develop a formal inclusive process of all stakeholders.
You know, one thing that the Clerk and I talk about is -- is when
previous plans have been done, there have been people left out of the
discussions, and so plans get done, get built, and then the stakeholder
who also has a stake in it is saying, "Wait a second, nobody talked to
me," or they started in a plan and they talked to them and it didn't
finish in a plan.
And so we're going to make sure we have sign-offs and
stakeholder meetings. We had a great meeting on the Immokalee
government center. It started off rough, but it got better and better as
we talked about programming out at that facility because we had the
stakeholders in the room working through the issues together. And I
think they would all pretty much say they felt pretty good about it at
the end of it. We want that process to be engraved in our system.
And -- and then when you get into master planning, there
shouldn't be a master plan over here, a master plan over there. You
know, we really should be working towards truly master planning so
that, as I mentioned, kind of, to me, it's strategic land acquisition for
one thing so that if fire needs something and EMS needs something,
you know, we're pretty good about kind of matching that up now.
But when you look at other shared-use facilities, libraries, parks,
you know, are we looking at the future of collocations and having
true government centers in other places? It starts with kind of
knowing what the subdivisional plans are and how they all feed into
one general master plan.
I mentioned to you, you know, trust but verify. Obviously, you
know, we always get people's wish list, but you've got to make
sure -- you've got to -- you know, you've got to hold people
accountable to prove it up. And so part of this process, we'll be
making sure that there is an accountability aspect of everything
May 27, 2025
Page 224
working forward.
And then continue to invest in the plan. The worst thing is to
put a plan -- to develop a plan, spend all this money, put it on a shelf,
you know. That plan should be a living document that should be part
of every decision you-all make moving forward so that you
understand how it evolves. A master plan is not going to be perfect.
It's going to change, but making sure that you kind of continue to
work with it as you're -- as you're making the change.
And so kind of next steps, I mentioned to you before deferred
maintenance. We have that study funded. We have space utilization
partially funded. And then master planning -- between the rest of
space utilization and master planning, that's part of our FY '26 budget
request. We have about three and a half million dollars of requests to
finish those items out.
I won't say -- you know, I know we technically don't always do
kind of, you know, a year by year what you think the spend is going
to be within a project. We fund it all up front. But from my
standpoint, we're going to need about three and a half million dollars
to complete the rest of this plan. And, honestly, if we started today,
we're talking five years. I mean, this is not an overnight thing.
These -- these things will take time.
You have 5 million square feet of structures -- I want to say the
last count I saw was 818 structures themselves -- to look at now.
You have about 3.8 million of building envelope to work with, but
you need to start that plan as soon as you can. And that's my
recommendation. And obviously, this was a precursor to AUIR
coming up and then moving into the budget workshops.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This money is just for study
and analysis and prioritization, right? It's not for actual --
MR. DUNNUCK: Yeah. This is -- this is just to build the
building blocks.
May 27, 2025
Page 225
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and this all feeds back
into, again, history lessons.
When, Commissioner Saunders, you and I came into office,
there was a billion dollars of unfunded capital and maintenance issues
on the front page of the budget that had been deferred by -- and, of
course, we always blame previous administrations.
But it had been deferred based upon the priorities at those
particular times. And, you know, we picked up, plus/minus,
500 million -- I say we picked up. There was 500 million or so
gathered with the sales tax initiative. And then we've been plugging
away sporadically at the deferred maintenance and other capital
deficits.
But it's past time for this to be done. I mean, I can't -- I can't
support this any more than I have.
I'll help you every way I possibly can. I mean, this has to be
done. We can do all the DOGE efforts that we're -- that put upon us
from the state and everything else, but if you're chasing your tail with
deferred maintenance and capital expenditures, you're just going to
keep going in a circle.
MR. DUNNUCK: And it's a recognition. You know, I
mentioned the '90s. You know, obviously, I was here from '95 to
2014.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, so this is your fault.
MR. DUNNUCK: Well, you know, it was an impact -- it was an
impact-fee world. It was you're building new stuff. You weren't
thinking the long-term maintenance of it. And now we're 25 years
later, and we've got to deal with it.
That's why I mentioned, like, when we did the -- you know, the
guaranteed maximum price for David Lawrence Center, we
incorporated in a "You need to start thinking the capital maintenance
May 27, 2025
Page 226
of that building," you know, now because you don't want the sticker
shock of having to do replacement for a $60 million building down
the road. You want to start kind of building that into your integration
of your thought process.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other questions or
comments from the Commission?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.
MR. DUNNUCK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Patterson, anything else in
this?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I believe that takes us to the end.
We put off the issue dealing with shelter from the storm and that sort
of thing for a later date because of the lateness of the hour.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. That brings us to Item 15, staff
and commission general communications.
Item 15A is public comments on general topics not on the
current or future agenda by individuals not already heard during
previous public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
Item #15B
May 27, 2025
Page 227
STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
MS. PATTERSON: Very good.
Item 15B is staff project updates. The update on the state
DOGE will take 30 seconds. We have transmitted the resolution to
the state DOGE. We have had two sets of correspondence and data
requests from the state DOGE office, and we have fulfilled both of
those and are awaiting any further requests or direction. So so far
we've been able to provide them everything that they've asked for.
The update on hurricane season preparedness, we're actually
going to move that into June, and we'll combine it with our usual
kind of hurricane roundup -- hurricane preparedness. The reason it
was on the agenda here for today was Senator Scott had his hurricane
preparedness meeting at the EOC today. Unfortunately, we weren't
able to attend that. So Director Summers will give us an update on
that, but he said it all went well.
And with that, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Daniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have nothing either. I can
come up with something if you give me a second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, that's --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: There's a lot of unused space
in his office. We might want to start there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yeah. There we go.
Yeah. Exactly.
May 27, 2025
Page 228
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Amy, I just wanted to thank
you for keeping your promise to stay focused on Station 21. I mean,
I know we just -- and I appreciate my colleagues unanimously
approving the pursuit of that property. But what we did today is we
have a grossly undersized fire station that sits next to a parcel of land
that the county owns that sits next to a rundown hotel that could be
better utilized by using that acreage as part of a fire station
expansion.
So I know we still have a long way to go, but I appreciate you
keeping it on your radar and all the hard work you've done to sort of
push through a really, really great plan. And obviously, all the
commissioners are aware of it, but I wanted to just, you know, thank
you for spearheading it and keeping me posted. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. This is a request from
Mr. Yovanovich. He has -- we had the NC Naples [sic]. Right now
it's tentatively set for June 24th, and we're not going to have a full
Board for that.
MS. PATTERSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So his question was, "Can we
continue this to that first meeting in July," which I believe is July 9th.
Now, we have a policy where we don't general hear
controversial zoning things, but we've not necessarily followed that
policy. So the question is whether the Board is willing to hear this at
our first meeting in July.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My personal belief is -- I
know we don't by policy hear contentious land-use items, but with all
of the capacities that are available and the -- you know, the hybrid
systems that we have in place, no one's precluded from participating.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So no objections.
(No response.)
May 27, 2025
Page 229
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So if you'd advise
Mr. Yovanovich that we will accommodate him and hear this -- I
think it was -- is it July 8th?
MS. PATTERSON: The 8th, July 8th. This does give us the
opportunity -- because I know that the communities have been in
touch with several of your offices, so we will be sure that we reach
out and advise them of those hearing dates as well as their ability to
participate by Zoom if they happen to be traveling or out of the area.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And here's the other thing, if
we hear it, it doesn't mean we have to vote on it. So if any one
commissioner here thinks that that day we're missing a key piece or
some citizens voice something that is more than what we are
comfortable with, you know, we can always, you know, hear it, and,
you know, we're not saying we're definitely voting on something on
the 8th.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. I believe that Mr. Yovanovich
and his client have heard the concerns of the communities and are
moving in a direction that will be more -- that the community will be
happier with, but that remains to be seen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. My only comment is I want
to thank the Board for considering the issue dealing with the Paradise
Coast park and that potential for the tourist tax issue. I think it was
an -- it's an important issue and one that I take very personally, so I'm
looking forward to continuing that.
With that, unless there's something else, we are adjourned.
*******
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
Saunders, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
May 27, 2025
Page 230
Item #16A1
RECORDING THE MINOR PLAT OF GOODLAND SHORES,
APPLICATION NUMBER PL20240013281 - A SUBDIVISION OF
LANDS LOCATED IN SECTION 18, TOWNSHIP 52 SOUTH,
RANGE 27 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE
SEWER FACILITIES FOR CITGO GAS STATION #184
IMPROVEMENTS, PL20250001019
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR SEVEN SHORES PHASE 2A AND 2C, PL20240007049 - A
FINAL INSPECTION ON FEBRUARY 21, 2025, FOUND THESE
FACILITIES TO BE SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE
Item #16A4
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR SEVEN SHORES PHASE 2B, PL20240011319 - FINAL
INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED BY THE DEVELOPMENT
REVIEW STAFF ON FEBRUARY 25, 2025, IN COORDINATION
May 27, 2025
Page 231
WITH PUBLIC UTILITIES. THESE FACILITIES WERE FOUND
TO BE SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR SEVEN SHORES PHASE 1F, PL20240005501
Item #16A6
COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE
UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS) IN THE
AMOUNT OF $32,033.50 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR
DEVELOPER’S DESIGNATED AGENT FOR ALTIS SANTA
BARBARA, PL20230009204
Item #16A7
RECORDING THE PLAT OF ANTHEM PARKWAY - PHASE 5B,
(APPLICATION NUMBER PL20220004185), APPROVAL OF THE
STANDARD FORM CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE
AGREEMENT, AND APPROVAL OF THE PERFORMANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,035,840.60 - A
SUBDIVISION OF LANDS LOCATED IN SECTION 33,
TOWNSHIP 47 SOUTH, RANGE 29 EAST, AND SECTION 4,
TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 29 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA
Item #16A8
May 27, 2025
Page 232
RESOLUTION 2025-102: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT
DEDICATIONS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF AZURE AT
HACIENDA LAKES, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20150002352,
AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $550,805.24
Item #16A9
RESOLUTION 2025-103: FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS FOR THE FINAL
PLAT OF BELLA TESORO AN ESPLANADE COMMUNITY –
PHASE 1, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20190001408, AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $743,372.46
Item #16A10
RESOLUTION 2025-104: FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL
PLAT OF THRIVE AT NAPLES, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20160002147, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $80,422.78
Item #16A11
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN 1) A FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION (“FDEP”) CONSENT ORDER
May 27, 2025
Page 233
RESOLUTION OFFER, 2) AN ADDENDUM TO AGREEMENT
FOR SALE AND PURCHASE INDEMNIFYING COLLIER
COUNTY, AND 3) A TEMPORARY ACCESS EASEMENT FROM
COLLIER COUNTY TO CYPRESS COVE LANDKEEPERS, INC.,
F/K/A CYPRESS COVE CONSERVANCY, INC., THE CONTRACT
SELLER, AND ITS CONTRACTORS, TO COMPLETE
REQUIRED MONITORING AND REPLANTING, IF REQUIRED
BY FDEP, RELATED TO A PENDING PROPERTY PURCHASER
FOR THE CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM LOCATED IN
THE DR. ROBERT H. GORE III PROJECT AREA
Item #16A12
THE PROPERTIES ON THE MARCH AND APRIL 2025
CONSERVATION COLLIER ACTIVE ACQUISITION LIST (AAL)
AND DIRECT STAFF TO PURSUE THE PROJECTS
RECOMMENDED WITHIN THE A-CATEGORY, FUNDED BY
THE CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION FUND
Item #16A13
AN AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION PROGRAM
WITH CAMERON LAUTZ FOR A 2.27-ACRE PARCEL AT A
COST OF $72,640, FOR A TOTAL COST NOT TO EXCEED
$74,410 INCLUSIVE OF CLOSING COSTS - PARCEL
#38846160008, SOUTH OFF 64TH AVE NE, WEST OF
EVERGLADES BLVD. N.
Item #16A14
May 27, 2025
Page 234
THE NAMING OF BREWERS LANDING PRESERVE AND THE
INTERIM MANAGEMENT PLAN UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM
Item #16A15
SECOND AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 22-7966,
“BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL OFFICIALS,” WITH THE
COLLIER RECREATION BASEBALL/SOFTBALL UMPIRE
ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR A ONE-YEAR RENEWAL AND A
PRICE INCREASE FOR THE REMAINING RENEWAL TERMS
Item #16A16
THE DONATION OF TWO FLOATING DOCKS FOR USE AT
SUGDEN REGIONAL PARK WITH AN ESTIMATED FAIR
MARKET VALUE OF $40,149 IN SUPPORT OF THE PARKS
AND RECREATION DIVISION’S WATER-SKIING PROGRAM
FROM THE FREEDOM WATERS FOUNDATION
Item #16A17
INCREASE OF EXPENDITURES FROM $50,000 TO $100,000
PER FISCAL YEAR UNDER AN EXEMPTION FROM THE
COMPETITIVE PROCESS FOR COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF’S
OFFICE’S AGREEMENT #22-027-NS, LAW ENFORCEMENT
SERVICES, CONTINUING THROUGH THE FINAL RENEWAL
TERM’S EXPIRATION DATE OF JUNE 18, 2027, AND
AUTHORIZATION TO TERMINATE AGREEMENT #22-031-NS
WITH THE COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FOR
DELNOR-WIGGINS LAW ENFORCEMENT SPECIAL DETAIL
May 27, 2025
Page 235
Item #16A18
RESOLUTION 2025-105: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
TEMPORARY CLOSING OF A PORTION OF VETERANS
MEMORIAL BOULEVARD AND LIVINGSTON ROAD AND
DETERMINING THAT THE CLOSURE IS NECESSARY FOR
THE ASHER FULL SCALE TRAINING ON JUNE 4, 2025, TO
FULFILL COLLIER COUNTY’S PERMIT REQUIREMENTS FOR
TEMPORARY EVENTS ON COLLIER COUNTY PROPERTY
Item #16A19
BUDGET AMENDMENT OF $1,500,000 FOR DOMESTIC
ANIMAL SERVICES (DAS) TO ADDRESS INCREASED
OPERATIONAL EXPENSES, INCLUDING VETERINARY
SERVICES, TEMPORARY LABOR, AND NECESSARY
EQUIPMENT AND SUPPLIES, ENSURING CONTINUED
COMPLIANCE WITH STATE STATUTES AND INDUSTRY
STANDARDS
Item #16A20
THE NAPLES ZOO, INC.'S PROPOSED PROJECT FOR THE
"SAFARI CANYON" PROJECT TO ALLOW THE ZOO TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS
Item #16B1
GRANT APPLICATION FOR COMMUNITY PROJECT FUNDING
(CPF) / CONGRESSIONALLY DIRECTED SPENDING (CDS) IN
May 27, 2025
Page 236
THE AMOUNT OF $4,190,000 TO ASSIST WITH THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW TRANSIT OPERATIONS AND
MAINTENANCE FACILITY THROUGH THE FEDERAL
TRANSIT AWARD MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (TRAMS),
ACCEPT THE AWARD, AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16B2
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE DONATION OF A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT (PARCEL 129DE) REQUIRED FOR WILLET
AVENUE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS. ESTIMATED FISCAL
IMPACT: $100
Item #16B3
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER METROPOLITAN
PLANNING ORGANIZATION’S (THE “MPO”) LEASE
AGREEMENT EXTENDING THE AGREEMENT TO JUNE 30,
2028, AND INCREASING THE ANNUAL RENT AND COMMON
AREA MAINTENANCE TO $13,875, AND THE AMENDED AND
RESTATED STAFF SERVICES AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
MPO AND THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS (THE “BOARD”). (TRANSPORTATION
OPERATING FUND 1001)
Item #16B4
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL NO. 24-8226, “PROJECT
MANAGEMENT SERVICES,” TO JACOB’S ENGINEERING
GROUP INC., CAPITAL CONSULTING SOLUTIONS, LLC, AND
May 27, 2025
Page 237
KIMLEY-HORN AND ASSOCIATES, INC., ON A PRIMARY,
SECONDARY, AND TERTIARY BASIS, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT
Item #16B5
WORK ORDER FOR CSA OCEAN SCIENCES, INC., TO
CONTINUE THE REQUIRED POST-CONSTRUCTION
HARDBOTTOM MONITORING FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY
BEACH NOURISHMENT PROJECT IN SUMMER 2025 FOR
TIME AND MATERIALS NOT TO EXCEED $487,367.52
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS UNDER
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT NO. 22-8015,
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE WORK
ORDER, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES
TOURISM (FUND 1105, PROJECT NO. 90033)
Item #16B6
RESOLUTION 2025-106: RESOLUTION 2025-107:
RESOLUTIONS AUTHORIZING THE CHAIRMAN TO
EXECUTE THE REVISED PUBLIC TRANSIT GRANT
AGREEMENT (PTGA) SECTION 5310 FPN# 448810-1-94-24,
AND AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO THE PUBLIC TRANSIT GRANT
AGREEMENT SECTION 5339 FPN# 439255-1-94-23, WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT), TO
ACCEPT FEDERAL TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION (FTA)
GRANT FUNDING MODIFICATIONS, AND TO AUTHORIZE
THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16B7
May 27, 2025
Page 238
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE DONATION OF A DRAINAGE
EASEMENT (PARCEL 117DE2) REQUIRED FOR EVERGLADES
CITY STORMWATER DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS - THE
PARCEL IS 1,608.13 SQUARE FEET IN EXTENT, IS
RECTANGULAR IN SHAPE, AND IS LOCATED ON THE
NORTH SIDE OF THE PARENT TRACT
Item #16B8
WORK ORDER IN THE AMOUNT OF $11,977.00 TO ARDAMAN
& ASSOCIATES, INC., UNDER THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
LIBRARY AGREEMENT NO. 18-7432-TE FOR SEDIMENT
COMPLIANCE CRITERIA TESTING SERVICE FOR THE PARK
SHORE BEACH RENOURISHMENT PROJECT, AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE ATTACHED WORK
ORDER, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS EXPENDITURE
PROMOTES TOURISM. (FUND 1105, PROJECT NO. 90067)
Item #16B9
AWARD INVITATION FOR QUALIFICATION NO. 24-8225,
“REAL ESTATE APPRAISAL AND CONSULTING SERVICES,”
TO RKL APPRAISAL AND CONSULTING, PLC, CARROLL &
CARROLL APPRAISERS & CONSULTANTS, LLC, MAXWELL,
HENDRY & SIMMONS, LLC, CBRE, INC, THE URBAN GROUP,
INC., KOVA APPRAISAL & CONSULTING SERVICES, LLC
D/B/A CARLSON NORRIS & ASSOCIATES, AND ANDERSON &
CARR, INC., AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AGREEMENTS
May 27, 2025
Page 239
Item #16C1
CHANGE ORDER NO. 7 TO AGREEMENT NO. 21-7938, WITH
R2T, INC., FOR THE MASTER PUMP STATION 302.00 SITE
IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT, ADDING NINETY DAYS TO THE
CONTRACT TIME, APPROVING THE USE OF $14,563.80 OF
THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCE, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT NO. 70215)
Item #16C2
AWARD OF INVITATION TO BID NO. 24-8307 TO CHEMICAL
INJECTION PARTNERS FLORIDA, LLC, AS THE PRIMARY
VENDOR, AND RAZORBACK, LLC, AS THE SECONDARY
VENDOR, FOR DEEP INJECTION WELL SYSTEM
PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENTS
Item #16C3
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES NO. 24-
8229 TO JONES EDMUNDS & ASSOCIATES, INC., FOR DESIGN
SERVICES FOR THE IMMOKALEE RECYCLING DROP-OFF
CENTER AND SCALEHOUSE & CONTROL CENTER PROJECT,
AUTHORIZING THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $1,136,381 (PROJECT 70232)
Item #16D1
May 27, 2025
Page 240
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO ALLOW CONTINUOUS
OPERATION OF THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM WITH AN ANTICIPATED AWARD IN
THE AMOUNT OF $3,135,160 FOR STATE FY 2025/2026. (SHIP
GRANT FUND 1053)
Item #16D2
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THREE (3) RELEASES OF LIEN
FOR FULL PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $61,612.03
PURSUANT TO THE AGREEMENT FOR DEFERRAL OF 100%
OF COLLIER COUNTY IMPACT FEES FOR OWNER OCCUPIED
AFFORDABLE HOUSING DWELLINGS
Item #16D3
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN TWO (2) MORTGAGE
SATISFACTIONS FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP LOAN PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF
$54,000.00. (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053)
Item #16D4
THE GRANT ELIGIBILITY APPLICATION FOR A GRANT
DONATION TO SUPPORT THE REPLACEMENT OF CARPET AT
THE EAST NAPLES LIBRARY IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,600.00.
(PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839)
Item #16D5
TWO (2) BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL FISCAL
May 27, 2025
Page 241
YEAR 2023/2024 SHIP PROGRAM ALLOCATION OF $92,466.00
AND TO RECOGNIZE $169,333.94 IN PROGRAM INCOME
FROM OVERNIGHT, INVESTMENT INTEREST AND PAYOFFS
FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP
PROGRAM FISCAL YEAR 2024/2025 (SHIP GRANT FUND
1053)
Item #16D6
RESOLUTION 2025-108: RESOLUTION 2025-109: (1) A
RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS ESTABLISHING A LOCAL DISASTER
PROGRAM, AND (2) A RESOLUTION TO APPROVE A
TECHNICAL REVISION TO FISCAL YEARS 2022-2025 AND
2025-2028 STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP
LOCAL HOUSING ASSISTANCE PLAN, ADDING LOCAL
DISASTER RESPONSE GRANT PROGRAM ASSISTANCE
LANGUAGE AND CLARIFYING LANGUAGE TO THE
DISASTER ASSISTANCE STRATEGY. (SHIP GRANT FUND
1053)
Item #16D7
AFTER-THE-FACT ELECTRONIC SUBMITTAL OF THE FISCAL
YEAR 2026 AMERICORPS SEPTEMBER 11TH NATIONAL DAY
OF SERVICE AND REMEMBRANCE GRANT CONTINUATION
APPLICATION TO AMERICORPS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$196,561 AND ALLOW THE COUNTY MANAGER, OR HER
DESIGNEE, TO SERVE AS THE AUTHORIZED
REPRESENTATIVE FOR ALL ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTING
AND GRANT SUBMISSION THROUGH THE GRANTOR
May 27, 2025
Page 242
ELECTRONIC SUBMISSION SYSTEM, EGRANTS,
THROUGHOUT THE GRANT PERIOD. (HOUSING GRANT
FUND 1835)
Item #16D8
SECOND AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NUMBER
18-7470, “SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM,” WITH
SUMMIT HOME RESPIRATORY SERVICES, INC., D/B/A
SUMMIT HOME HEALTHCARE PRODUCTS, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AMENDMENT
Item #16D9
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NUMBER
18-7470 “SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM,” WITH VIP
AMERICA OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, LLC, AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AMENDMENT
Item #16D10
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO EXTEND AGREEMENT NUMBER
18-7470, “SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM,” WITH
MARANATHA HOME CARE, INC., D/B/A A BETTER HEALTH
CARE, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AMENDMENT
Item #16F1
RATIFY ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED CHANGE ORDER
May 27, 2025
Page 243
NO. 1 UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 23-8096 WITH
HEATHERWOOD CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, ADDING 78
DAYS TO THE SUBSTANTIAL COMPLETION DATE AND
UTILIZING $214,087.62 OF THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCE FOR
PURCHASE ORDER NO. 4500229441 ON THE PELICAN BAY
NEW MAINTENANCE FACILITY PROJECT, AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT NO. 50211)
Item #16F2
AWARD CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID NO. 25-8349,
“CCSO JAIL BUILDINGS J1-J2 EGRESS DOOR ALTERATIONS,”
TO GEMINI PROPERTIES GROUP, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF
$276,251.00, APPROVE AN OWNER’S ALLOWANCE OF
$10,000.00, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AGREEMENT
Item #16F3
APPROVED EXPENDITURES WITH AIRBUS HELICOPTERS,
INC., IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $355,000 PER FISCAL
YEAR FOR COSTS RELATED TO: (1) A SOLE SOURCE
WAIVER FOR HCARESMART SERVICE AGREEMENT NO. 18-
7291 IN THE AMOUNT OF $110,000 PER FISCAL YEAR, (2) A
SEPARATE SOLE SOURCE WAIVER FOR EQUIPMENT PARTS,
REPAIRS, AND SERVICES NOT COVERED UNDER THE
HCARESMART SERVICE AGREEMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$210,000 PER FISCAL YEAR, AND (3) AN EXEMPTION FOR
TRAINING RELATED TO THE COUNTY’S AIR AMBULANCE
HELICOPTER IN THE AMOUNT OF $35,000 PER FISCAL YEAR
May 27, 2025
Page 244
Item #16F4
AMENDMENT NO. 20 TO THE AGREEMENT WITH COLLIER
COUNTY DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD FOR THE DRIVER
EDUCATION PROGRAM, EXTENDING THE DRIVER’S
EDUCATION FUNDING COLLECTED UNDER THE DORI
SLOSBERG DRIVER EDUCATION ORDINANCE FOR AN
ADDITIONAL YEAR
Item #16F5
RESOLUTION 2025-110: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES
Item #16G1
RESOLUTION 2025-111: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
EXECUTION OF AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION GRANT AGREEMENT (PTGA) 452976-1-94-
01, CONTRACT NO. G2J23 WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO EXTEND THE END
DATE OF THE AGREEMENT FOR THE SECURITY
ENHANCEMENTS AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT
May 27, 2025
Page 245
FROM JUNE 30, 2025, TO JUNE 30, 2026, TO PROVIDE
SUFFICIENT TIME FOR PROJECT COMPLETION
Item #16G2
RESOLUTION 2025-112: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
EXECUTION OF AN AMENDMENT NO. 2 TO PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION GRANT AGREEMENT (PTGA) 450766-1-94-
01, CONTRACT NO. G2861 WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) TO EXTEND
THE END DATE OF THE AGREEMENT FROM JUNE 30, 2025,
TO DECEMBER 31, 2025, TO PROVIDE SUFFICIENT TIME FOR
PROJECT COMPLETION
Item #16G3
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO REALLOCATE AND TRANSFER
CAPITAL FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $108,815.40 TO
REHABILITATE AND REPAIR THE EXTERIOR OF SIX FUEL
STORAGE TANKS AT THE MARCO ISLAND EXECUTIVE
AIRPORT (MKY) TO MEET FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION (FDEP) REQUIREMENTS.
(AIRPORT CAPITAL FUND 4091)
Item #16J1
THE EXECUTION OF A BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR $479,000
TO REPLACE 10 COMMUNICATIONS CONSOLES FOR 9-1-1
OPERATIONS
Item #16J2
May 27, 2025
Page 246
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $51,524,215.80 WERE DRAWN FOR THE
PERIODS BETWEEN MAY 1, 2025, AND MAY 14, 2025,
PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16J3
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF MAY 21, 2025
Item #16K1
WAIVE THE RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT FOR NICOLAS
FABREGAS ON THE PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION
BOARD - ELECTED TO A FOUR-YEAR TERM ON
MARCH 11, 2025
Item #16K2
PROVIDE INFORMED WRITTEN CONSENT WAIVING ANY
POTENTIAL CONFLICT THAT THE BOARD MAY HAVE
CONCERNING THE LAW FIRM CARLTON FIELDS, P.A. (THE
“FIRM”) UNDER THE COUNTY’S CURRENT RETENTION
AGREEMENT WITH THE FIRM CONCERNING ITS
UNRELATED REPRESENTATION OF WILLIAMS FARMS
LAND ASSETS, LLC, A FLORIDA LIMITED LIABILITY
COMPANY, WILLIAMS FARMS OF IMMOKALEE, INC., A
May 27, 2025
Page 247
FLORIDA CORPORATION, DIANE R. WILLIAMS AND CARRIE
E. WILLIAMS AS CO-TRUSTEE OF THE JAMES E. WILLIAMS,
JR. NON-EXEMPT ESTATE TAX SHELTERED TRUST U/A/D
08/13/93, CARRIE E. WILLIAMS AND JAMES E. WILLIAMS, III
AS TRUSTEES OF THE WILLIAMS FAMILY ASSETS TRUST
U/A DATED APRIL 25, 1997, AND DIANE R. WILLIAMS AND
CARRIE E. WILLIAMS AS CO-TRUSTEES OF THE JAMES E.
WILLIAMS, JR. GST-EXEMPT ESTATE TAX SHELTERED
TRUST U/A/D 08/13/93 (HEREAFTER THE “WILLIAMS
CLIENTS”) IN CONNECTION WITH THE WILLIAMS CLIENT’S
SALE OF +/- 2,247 ACRES OF REAL PROPERTY IN
IMMOKALEE TO COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND TO
APPROVE AN AMENDMENT TO THE RETENTION
AGREEMENT UPDATING CURRENT HOURLY RATES AND
EXERCISING THE FIRST RENEWAL TERM UNDER THE
AGREEMENT
Item #16K3 (Add-on Item per Change Sheet)
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO MAKE A
SETTLEMENT OFFER OF $15,000, AS A NUISANCE
THRESHOLD FOR LITIGATION STRATEGY PURPOSES, IN
THE MATTER STYLED CANDICE LEE MILLS B. COLLIER
COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, CASE NO.
12-CA-0746, PENDING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16L1
CRA RESOLUTION 2025-113: A CRA RESOLUTION
May 27, 2025
Page 248
APPROVING THE CREATION AND BYLAWS OF THE
IMMOKALEE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT (CRA)
ADVISORY BOARD, AND PARTIALLY REPEALING CRA
RESOLUTION NO. 2001-98, TO REPLACE THE IMMOKALEE
LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD AND THE
IMMOKALEE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COMMI TTEE;
AND APPROVE THE CREATION OF THE IMMOKALEE
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD BY THE
BCC. (COMPANION TO ITEM #17B)
Item #17A
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE JUNE 10, 2025,
BCC MEETING (PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL NOT BE HEARD
UNTIL THE OFFICIAL HEARING). THIS ITEM WAS
PREVIOUSLY CONTINUED FROM THE MAY 13, 2025, BCC
MEETING TO THE MAY 27, 2025, BCC MEETING
RECOMMENDATION TO ADOPT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO
IMPLEMENT THE IMMOKALEE AREA MASTER PLAN
ELEMENT OF THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN, TO
CHANGE THE IMMOKALEE URBAN OVERLAY DISTRICT TO
THE IMMOKALEE URBAN AREA OVERLAY DISTRICT
(IUAOD) ZONING DISTRICT, REVISE, RENAME, AND ADD
SUBDISTRICTS, AND ESTABLISH USES, BOUNDARIES AND
DESIGN STANDARDS. [PL2024004278] (FIRST OF TWO
HEARINGS)
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2025-27: AN ORDINANCE CREATING THE
May 27, 2025
Page 249
IMMOKALEE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY
BOARD TO REPLACE THE CRA-CREATED IMMOKALEE
LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD AND THE
IMMOKALEE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
AND REPEAL ORDINANCE NO. 02-52. (COMPANION TO ITEM
#16L1)
Item #17C
ORDINANCE 2025-28: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY
GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN, SPECIFICALLY AMENDING
THE FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT AND MAP SERIES BY
CHANGING THE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF PROPERTY
FROM URBAN, MIXED-USE DISTRICT, URBAN COASTAL
FRINGE SUBDISTRICT TO URBAN, URBAN-COMMERCIAL
DISTRICT, 951 VEHICLE SUITES COMMERCIAL
SUBDISTRICT, TO ALLOW 135,000 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS
FLOOR AREA OF INDOOR AIR-CONDITIONED VEHICLE
STORAGE INCLUDING AUTOMOBILES, RECREATIONAL
VEHICLES, SWAMP BUGGIES, FOUR WHEELERS AND BOATS
(SIC CODE 4225), AND FURTHERMORE DIRECTING
TRANSMITTAL OF THE ADOPTED AMENDMENT TO THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, PROVIDING FOR
SEVERABILITY AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE
OF COLLIER BOULEVARD NORTH OF CHAMPIONSHIP
DRIVE AND 1.5 MILES SOUTH OF TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, IN
SECTION 15, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF ±9.30 ACRES.
(PL20240001700) (COMPANION TO ITEM #17D)
May 27, 2025
Page 250
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2025-29: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NUMBER 2004-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH
ESTABLISHED THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING
REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, BY AMENDING THE
APPROPRIATE ZONING ATLAS MAP OR MAPS BY
CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF THE HEREIN
DESCRIBED REAL PROPERTY FROM THE RURAL
AGRICULTURAL (A) ZONING DISTRICT TO THE
COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT (CPUD) ZONING DISTRICT
FOR A PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS 951 VEHICLE SUITES
CPUD, TO ALLOW THE DEVELOPMENT OF 135,000 SQUARE
FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA OF INDOOR AIR-
CONDITIONED VEHICLE STORAGE INCLUDING
AUTOMOBILES, RECREATIONAL VEHICLES, SWAMP
BUGGIES, FOUR WHEELERS, AND BOATS (SIC CODE 4225)
ON PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD NORTH OF CHAMPIONSHIP DRIVE AND 1.5
MILES SOUTH OF TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, IN SECTION 15,
TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF 9.30± ACRES; AND BY
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. [PL20240001704]
(COMPANION TO ITEM #17C)
Item #17E
RESOLUTION 2025-114: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
May 27, 2025
Page 251
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
Item #17F
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE JUNE 10, 2025,
BCC MEETING (PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL NOT BE HEARD
UNTIL THE OFFICIAL HEARING). RECOMMENDATION TO
AMEND THE INNOVATION ZONE ORDINANCE TO REMOVE
ANY CAP ON THE TRUST FUND, ALLOW THE BOARD TO
UTILIZE INNOVATION ZONE TRUST FUNDS FOR ANY
PUBLIC PURPOSE DECLARED BY THE BOARD, AND
EXTEND THE AVE MARIA INNOVATION ZONE FOR
ANOTHER 10 YEARS.
*****
May 27, 2025
Page 252
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 5:20 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
_______________________________________
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on ______________________,
as presented ________ or as corrected ________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.