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CCPC Minutes 03/20/2025March 20, 2025 Page 1 of 21 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION Naples, Florida March 20, 2025 LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier County Planning Commission, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: Chuck Schumacher, Chairman Paul Shea, Secretary Randy Sparrazza Michael Petscher Michelle L. McLeod Charles "Chap" Colucci Amy Lockhart, Collier County School Board Representative ABSENT: Joe Schmitt ALSO PRESENT: Raymond V. Bellows, Zoning Manager Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning Director Heidi Ashton-Cicko, Managing Assistant County Attorney Derek Perry, County Attorney's Office Kevin Summers, Manager - Technical Systems Operations March 20, 2025 Page 2 of 21 P R O C E E D I N G S MR. BOSI: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you, Mr. Bosi. Good morning and welcome to the March 20th planning Commission meeting. Item 1, please stand for Pledge of Allegiance. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Great. Item 2, roll call. Mr. Secretary. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Chairman Schmitt, absent. Vice Chair Schumacher? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Here. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Secretary Shea is here. Commissioner Sparrazza? COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Here. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Commissioner Colucci? COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: Here. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Commissioner McLeod? COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Here. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Commissioner Petscher? COMMISSIONER PETSCHER: Here. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Ms. Lockhart? MS. LOCKHART: Here. COMMISSIONER SHEA: We have a quorum, sir, six out of seven. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Great. I don't see any addenda to the agenda. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Can I add something? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yes. COMMISSIONER SHEA: I know you don't want -- Mike, is it possible for you, sometime in this meeting, just to give us three minutes? Is that -- CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Three. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Three minutes on what this new law that is going through on affordable housing, how -- against Live Local saying basically that PUDs are not sheltered from Live Local and what impacts that might have on how we make decisions, if it's passed. MR. BOSI: Sure. At the end of our -- COMMISSIONER SHEA: Yeah. MR. BOSI: At the conclusion of our regular scheduled hearings, we can just -- COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Three minutes. MR. BOSI: Three minutes, yeah. No, and it's a dynamic -- it's a dynamic aspect because it's still going through all the process of changing -- COMMISSIONER SHEA: Just your perspective, though, what it means to us. When we start looking at multiuse petitions that have some commercial in it, does it meet -- should we be thinking about Live Local if this law changes? MR. BOSI: Yes, yes. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Okay. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you. Planning Commission absences for the next meeting. (No response.) CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: What's the date on our next meeting, Mike? COMMISSIONER SHEA: April 3rd. MR. BOSI: April 3rd. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Any -- any planned absences from any commission March 20, 2025 Page 3 of 21 members as it stands? COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: For the 3rd? COMMISSIONER SHEA: Yes. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yep. COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: No. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. Approval of previous minutes, we have February 20th, 2025, meeting minutes. I'll take a motion to approve or -- COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Motion to approve as-is. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Any second? COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: Second. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: All right. All in favor? COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: (No verbal response.) COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: (No verbal response.) COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye. COMMISSIONER PETSCHER: Aye. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Aye. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Great. BCC report/recap. MR. BELLOWS: Good morning. Yes, on March 3rd the Board of County Commissioners heard the Baker Senior Center PUD amendment. That was approved on their summary agenda, so that's subject to the Planning Commission recommendations. And the FP&L Summit tower, that was a conditional use for a 150-foot tower. That was approved by the Board 5-0. MR. BOSI: And Mike Bosi, Zoning director. Just to let you know, they also decided not to move forward with the proposal to allow for the renting of urban guesthouses. There was just -- because they couldn't control the duration of tenureship, they felt Airbnb provided too much of a potential negative to justify the proposal moving forward. And they also told -- directed staff to make no changes to the existing golf course conversion process. If you remember, about nine months ago, the Planning Commission had heard the modifications, thought we had -- staff had went too far because we were trying to protect against Bert Harris. And we went to the Board of County Commissioners, and they said, "Leave it as-is." So the golf course conversion process remains intact as it was adopted in 2017. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you. MR. BOSI: Yep. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: No Chairman's report today. Consent agenda, there's nothing on the consent agenda. So that brings us to our public hearings. ***Item No. 1, PL20240005475, the Immokalee Senior Housing Mixed-Use Planned Development. All those that will be testifying, please stand to be sworn in. THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? (The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.) CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Great. MR. ARNOLD: Good morning. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Good morning. If we could start out with just any disclosures from commission members, please. COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: No. MS. LOCKHART: Staff material only. COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: Only staff materials. March 20, 2025 Page 4 of 21 COMMISSIONER SHEA: Staff materials. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Staff materials. COMMISSIONER PETSCHER: Staff materials only. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Staff materials, spoke with staff, and then on my -- as my involvement on the Women's Foundation Board, I recently toured the Immokalee Foundation facilities and went to the middle school and viewed some of their other projects that they have going on there. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Got it. Got it. Good. I have just staff materials only for myself. With that... MR. ARNOLD: Thank you. Good morning. I'm Wayne Arnold. I'm here representing the property owner and the Immokalee Foundation. And we're here to modify the Immokalee Senior Housing plan development, which was approved a number of years ago, and we're changing that. I'll go through some of our changes and answer any questions that you may have. Okay. That's not advancing for me for some reason. There we go. So with us today we have Noemi Perez from the Immokalee Foundation; we have Michael Facundo who's on your CRA advisory board and a local architect working on the project; and we have Jim Banks, our traffic engineer, who's prepared the traffic analysis for the project. So we're here to modify a PUD that's about seven and a half acres today. We're seeking to add a small RMF-6 zoned portion, which is located in that area, and that's going to become part of our water management system, but we're bringing that into the PUD. So it will be a total of about eight acres. So the property is currently partially developed. It was originally intended to be a 119-unit senior affordable housing project. They were going to take down the property in a series of takedowns. They built the first phase, a 30-unit project. They elected not to pursue constructing the other units, and the Friendship Baptist Church, who also is located here, and the cemetery that they manage here were the owners and elected to go ahead and sell the property. The Immokalee Foundation is looking to expand its footprint in the Immokalee area, and so we're pursuing this for both the Immokalee Foundation to have their educational services to be located here as well as a future home for the Friendship church to expand their footprint that's immediately adjacent to the site. I'm not sure -- obviously, Ms. McLeod, you've had the tour of the facility and kind of understand the mission of the Foundation, but they were formed a number of years ago to really help the children of Immokalee. And their mission is really to help all ages of children pursue careers outside of the agricultural industry that has been so essential for the Immokalee community but looking for educational opportunities at every level. So they offer after-school mentoring programs. They offer assistance for kids to fill out college applications. They help them establish different mentorships, different -- different employers in the community, assist with providing internships for some of those children that are moving on to school. They have a great relationship with FGCU, and a number of their students will ultimately go on and attend FGCU. Until recently -- we lost one of our young engineers -- but he was a participant in the Immokalee Foundation, went on to FGCU, became a civil engineer and worked for us and has recently moved on to another firm. But we were proud of his efforts, and I know he spoke so highly of his ability to be a participant with the Immokalee Foundation, how that was a life-changing experience for him. So that's sort of their mission. And they -- they're in a facility that's very close by today, but they, obviously, would like to grow. That's why we're asking for them to have a 50,000-square-foot facility on this site that will be a two-story building, so they could have about a 25,000-square-foot footprint on each floor, and that could fulfill their ability to house, you know, some of these after-school events, some evening events for the mentoring of the kids. Here's one of the reasons that it's essential for them to be in this location. It's maybe hard March 20, 2025 Page 5 of 21 to pick up, but the nearest school is Highlands Elementary just immediately to the north, north of the cemetery, but then you go on -- we have the Immokalee Technical Center; we have Immokalee Middle School; we have Immokalee High School. So, you know, you have all of these facilities that are within walking distance of this property which makes it essential because a good portion of the middle school and high school kids that participate after school walk to the facility. So we think it's an ideal location and makes a lot of sense for the Foundation to expand here. So just to go through the request, again, we're already zoned as the senior housing RPUD and RMF-6. We're proposing to change that to the Immokalee Senior Housing Mixed-Use Planned Development to account for the community facility uses that would be for the educational facilities related to the Foundation as well as the future church and childcare use that we've proposed. We're adding, like I said, about a half-an-acre site that's currently zoned RMF-6. Part of this, we're rescinding the affordable housing density bonus. There was -- there was a question whether or not that bonus density agreement that the county approved as part of the original PUD had ever been formally recorded. There is a deed restriction on a small portion of the site that has been developed here. That's the southernmost. So north is to your left. That building and that about 2.3 acres of property was legally described as part of a restrictive covenant that restricts that to the senior housing and limits that tract to 30 units. So the strikethrough and underline version of the document you have in front of you has changed all the references to the 119 units to 30 units, and we've kept all the development standards intact for that building. And I don't think any representatives for the current property owner of the residential building is here, but I've spoken to their attorney. She's a local attorney representing the company that owns it. And we've provided them with all of the documentation, and as far as I know, they're in full agreement with what we've proposed. This is our newly proposed master plan. It's kind of bubble-ish, but on the bottom you see the residential tract that we've retained, and then the balance of the site, which is about 5.6 acres, will be what we're calling "community facility," and in our list of permitted uses, we've made provisions for, as I said, the Friendship Baptist Church and a small childcare facility as well as the Foundation's educational services to be on that tract. Here's sort of a -- get an idea of how the Foundation is laying out its building. The future church site hasn't been laid out yet by the Friendship church, but access is going to be on Santa Rosa Boulevard. This is 11th, which is the main access to the site today. The residential structures are down here and will share a common access at that location. But you can see how the parking's going to situate on the perimeters, and then the building footprint will be here, and they're proposing some outdoor courtyard space and everything that Mr. Facundo and his group are working on. Here's a list of our uses. And you can see that it includes a lot of SIC codes related to education, because the Immokalee Foundation isn't really a school, but it is a supplementary program to offer, like I said, a lot of these after-school and training programs, so we've listed several of those. And then let me talk a little bit about the church for the Friendship Baptist Church, who owns the property. We made a provision for there to be a 5,000-square-foot church, and we called it an accessory 100-student childcare. And if you read the neighborhood information minutes, there was quite a bit of discussion about this childcare component, whether or not it was -- was that really accessory and sort of like when the church is in session and they can have a childcare, and we modeled that, and Mr. Banks modeled that as part of our traffic analysis to be a facility that would operate in conjunction with a church but would function like a stand-alone childcare center. So the church -- we made it accessory to the church because we're not going to go out and just build a childcare center on the balance of this site. What Friendship would do is create a church, and then they could operate a daycare center. March 20, 2025 Page 6 of 21 So that's how we've tried to structure that and tried to make it very clear. And I know it was a little confusing for people but, you know, we're calling it accessory to the church because it can't exist without the church. And our offices, where I'm located, I think Mr. Banks also did the traffic analysis for that. But it commingles a childcare facility with the church, and that's how it was permitted -- what is in the City of Bonita Springs -- that it was an accessory-type use to a church, but it can't function without a church being there. So that's how we've structured this, just to try to make that clear. Development standards for us, the most significant change is we're changing from 35 feet to 45 feet for a zoned height. The residences were at a zoned height of 35 feet, two stories. In summary -- and we're here to try to construct a new, you know, Immokalee Foundation education facility. Like I mentioned, we're very centrally located to the other schools. We are consistent with the Immokalee Master Plan. This is designated a high-residential area. It allows higher density than we're achieving, and it was previously approved at that high density. And the Immokalee Master Plan allows for these community facility uses to exist throughout every land use category. And then the Immokalee CRA heard this project a few weeks ago. We did a Zoom presentation to them, and they voted unanimously to support the PUD changes. So with that, that's, in a nutshell, what we're proposing. We're here as a team to answer any questions that you might have. We appreciate staff's recommendation of approval and hope you can, too. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you, Wayne. Max height, 45 feet, correct? MR. ARNOLD: That's correct. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Andy similar-sized structures within there, in that 45 feet area, or is this going to pretty much be the biggest building around? MR. ARNOLD: Well, it probably -- I can't speak to it. Mike and Noemi live out in Immokalee and may be able to speak to it, but I think most of the schools are probably going to be in that 35 to 40-foot range. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. Any questions from any planning commissioners? Go ahead. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Just out of curiosity, Wayne, why are they changing the name to Immokalee Senior Housing? MR. ARNOLD: So it's currently zoned as the Immokalee Senior Housing Residential Planned Development, and we just thought it would be more simple to change it to the Immokalee Senior Housing Mixed-Use Planned Development since we're now inserting the mix of community facility uses and residential. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: But why "senior" when this is clearly going to be for young folks? MR. ARNOLD: Well, because it was originally called the Senior Housing Mixed-Use Planned Development. Many of the amendments we do, we don't change the name of the projects. We just simply carry forward the name of the planned development. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Okay. Okay. That's all I had. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. Any other -- any other questions? No? Okay. Staff? MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Zoning director. As the -- as Wayne has indicated, staff has reviewed the petition for compliance with the GMP and the LDC requirements. There is -- I should note that there is one deviation related to a parking reduction, and staff is in support of that based upon the nature and the demographic of the Immokalee community and the preponderance of that population for bicycling and walking being some of the primary means of transportation. We've looked at the proposed exchange for the senior housing to the Community March 20, 2025 Page 7 of 21 Foundation, and we think that there are community benefits associated with that, and we are recommending approval from that regard. And any questions you may have... CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Not seeing any questions. Public comment? MR. SUMMERS: Yes, Mr. Chairman. You have two registered speakers online. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. MR. SUMMERS: Starting with Donna Yzaguirre. Donna, are you there? If you could unmute yourself. MS. YZAGUIRRE: Can you hear me? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yes. Good morning. MS. YZAGUIRRE: Hi. Hi. Good morning. How are you? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Good. Please state your name again for the record. MS. YZAGUIRRE: Donna Yzaguirre. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you, ma'am. Go ahead. MS. YZAGUIRRE: Okay. So I live right down the street from where this facility is, where the church is and where the current building is. And I went to the last meeting, and one of my biggest concerns is on 11th Street there already is Highlands Elementary School, and the traffic on 11th Street is just -- during the dismissal times and arrival times, the traffic is just ridiculous, and then in the afternoon, we have a horrible traffic situation because Arthrex lets out at a certain time, and schools get out the same time. So sometimes, in the afternoon, the intersection of 11th and Immokalee Drive, which is literally maybe a thousand feet from where this facility's supposed to go, it's like you have to sit there for some 10, 15 minutes sometimes just to cross the intersection. And sometimes in the morning when I'm trying to leave to go to work, I can't even get out on the road to go to work. And I haven't seen a significant traffic study done on 11th Street that would convince me that this facility is going to be conducive to the people who already live in the community around the area, that it's going to be conducive for us other than more of just an irritation for us in our daily lives. And this building is going to be, like, this huge monstrosity, and then it's going to -- and, you know, my thing is is there's so much property in Immokalee available for sale, I don't know why they specifically chose this area other than the connection to the Friendship Baptist Church and Mike Facundo being the pastor of the church, also being the architect on this job. I just can't see what it's zoned for now and what they're proposing to do is going to benefit me in any -- in the area, anyway. And plus adding -- in the future adding 100-seat daycare. That's going to add -- that's going to be people that are going to be picking their kids up after they get off work and all that stuff, and that's already going to add 100 more vehicles, at least, to what already is congesting our area as it is now. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I understand your -- I understand your concerns. If I can just ask you one question. Would you prefer the 119 multifamily houses there? MS. YZAGUIRRE: I don't think -- that's been zoned like this forever, and I don't think -- all that property that's behind there belongs to the church. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: But they could put 119 multifamily there. MS. YZAGUIRRE: But, I mean, I just don't see -- CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: That could be in excess of 240 vehicles if you had two people per unit that had vehicles. So I understand where you're coming from with the traffic. I'm just trying to add to that use that I think if you -- in my opinion, if you reduce the uses that it was originally zoned for, being that 119, you're going to take a little bit of weight off of that traffic. And I understand the comments on traffic, and I'll ask Transportation if there has been a study done on that 11th Street and Immokalee and what type of resolve we could find for you there. But other than that, I appreciate your comments. March 20, 2025 Page 8 of 21 MS. YZAGUIRRE: Well, I wouldn't mind the building, as they've got it listed, and the church and all that, as long as they push it to the east side of the property to where -- right now, when the church parks, they actually park in the right-of-way right next to the road, and so some of the vehicles poke out into the road. I wouldn't be opposed to doing it the way it is if they omitted the future chance of there being a 100-seat daycare. I would be completely fine with that. But that 100-seat daycare, that's what I'm -- I'm more opposed to that than anything, and maybe not going over the 35-foot limit. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you. MS. YZAGUIRRE: This is still a residential area. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you for your comments. MS. YZAGUIRRE: Thank you. MR. SUMMERS: All right. Our next speaker is Gilbert Flores. Sir, if you could please unmute yourself. MR. FLORES: Hi. Good morning. Can you hear me? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yes. Good morning, Mr. Flores. State your name again for the record, please. MR. FLORES: Hi. Good morning. My name is Gilbert Flores, and I am a property owner on Orchid Avenue, which is very close to this proposed project. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. MR. FLORES: And I am here this morning to basically echo what Donna has said. I mean, I know I don't understand the -- I'm not going to say to you that I understand what is involved in a traffic study, because I don't; however, it's one thing to read something on paper and then experience it in real life. And so, again, the proposed project will add -- will add more congestion to 11th Street with Highlands being there, an elementary school. Now, when Mr. Arnold talked about that this is ideal because it's central and kids can walk there, I understand that; however, you have the iTECH Center, you have Immokalee High School, and the middle school. Both Immokalee -- we only have one middle school in Immokalee. We only have one high school. That -- all the elementary schools feed into both of those schools, and those are right across from each other on Immokalee Drive; it's Immokalee and 9th Street. And then the iTECH is there as well. You have a four-way stop that is basically managing the flow of traffic -- we don't have a stoplight there -- for all of this activity to take place. That's only two blocks away from where this proposed project is going to take place. So when you -- if you see this, if you come and observe, it is not safe for these kids to be crossing. Again, there -- it's a four -- it's a four-way stop. It might be a blinking light; I don't remember. But that's what you have there in terms of managing that traffic. Now, you go two blocks, and you want to add this project that's going to generate more traffic and then kids walking in there. I can tell you right now it is not -- it is not safe. And I -- the comment that you made earlier -- and I don't know your name, sir, but about adding housing units, you know, you're telling us which is the lesser of, I guess, the two evils, right? Maybe that should have never been approved. And so our homes are there, and you have all these non-profits. And excuse me for expressing myself this way, because I have worked for a non-profit, and they do good things. I'm not against, you know, non-profits. But in Immokalee there are just so many. When do we get to the point where we say "no more"? Because the traffic here is unbearable. This -- on 29 here you have -- and I know I'm getting away from the project. But just to tell you -- and I know this is an issue everywhere. But people are using our main road here, 29, to go to Arthrex to work, to go to Naples to work. People from Lehigh, people from Fort Myers traveling all through here to do that. So not only do we have to contend with our main road being congested, now the streets March 20, 2025 Page 9 of 21 that we use to go -- to go home, we have to wait behind school traffic coming in both directions to turn into Highlands, and now you're going to add this project on 11th Street. So again, are you making it better for non-profits? Of course you are. But are you making it better for me as a private homeowner? No, you're not. That's my investment. I pay property taxes. These non-for-profits do not. And I know we become lenient, and I don't know, whatever the laws have been written to exempt them from certain things, you know, that's fine. It's a law. But, you know, some of these not-for-profit -- just keep this in mind. They're not poor. You look at their balance sheet, they're not poor. I mean, they certainly pay their CEOs enough money. But you have RCMA, you have Guadalupe. You know, now the Immokalee Foundation, which I have nothing against. I think all three do great work. But I'm just letting you know that we're being taxed while they are not. So keep in mind, again, how safe this is going to be to add this on this residential street -- is what I would call it -- other than the church existing there, and the -- and Highlands. My other point is when we attended the meeting here -- I think it was on the 7th -- there was a back-and-forth between Mr. Arnold and Mike Facundo about the actual daycare center. And on Page 13 of the minutes that was taken, it says, January 7th, 2025, neighborhood information meeting transcript, okay. So there's a back-and-forth because we did raise a question about, okay, besides the Foundation building -- and I did say to Noemi, I said, you know -- because I know her. But I said, I don't -- I don't know that I'm too concerned about what -- in terms of traffic, what that's going to generate for you guys to go in there, but a childcare center, if you're going to run a childcare center that's a full operations childcare center, drop-off and pick-up, morning and then afternoon, that's just going to make it worse. And Mike said -- and I'm reading off of this transcript. It said, "It's not a function of the church. We're not into the childcare program," and then Mr. Arnold says, "Well, I think, again, our traffic analyzes it." I don't -- there's not clarity in terms of is the church going to run a full childcare program, or are they not? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Flores. MR. FLORES: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. Mr. Arnold. MR. ARNOLD: Thank you. Just to address a couple of those comments, if I can. First of all, yes, I think I made it clear that the intent is that the church could operate a fully functional 100-child daycare facility. Mr. Banks analyzed that as part of his traffic analysis. The church isn't in the business of operating a daycare today, but I know what the gentleman said about non-profits, not all of them have a lot of money, and for them to pay a consulting team for us to come back in a year, whenever they decide they might want to add a childcare center, it's expensive, it's time-consuming. It's a year process to get through here. So we think it makes sense because we don't have that impact on the roadway that degrades the levels of service. And 11th functions well. I think Mr. Banks was just out there as late as yesterday afternoon to monitor the dismissal from Highlands Elementary School and to monitor the traffic. And if you'd like, I'm sure Mr. Banks can come up here and talk to you a little bit about his analysis and what he observed out there on the field, if that's okay. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Please. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Mr. Banks. MR. ARNOLD: Jim, you're up. MR. BANKS: Good morning. For the record, Jim Banks. Mr. Arnold is correct, I was out there yesterday and made some observations. I want to be careful that I'm not implying that the residents aren't being truthful but maybe overstating the -- their concerns. First and foremost, the traffic on 11th is a low volume of traffic. Now, you do have these little, short, brief peaking periods when the schools -- in the mornings and in the evenings when March 20, 2025 Page 10 of 21 they let out. But we were out there making observations, and the traffic demand on 11th Avenue is low, and the additional traffic that we would add on that will not exacerbate that situation where it would lower the level of service. It operates at a fairly high level of service, again, except for in the evening there's about a seven- to eight-minute period when students are being picked up and some of the vehicles are queuing out onto 11th. But at no time was traffic flow impeded. It might have been delayed some when somebody's traveling northbound on 11th Avenue and they have to get around the cars that are queued up, but at no time was there any significant blockage. I also drove around and monitored some of the adjacent intersections. I observed no type of delay that was presented to you earlier by one of the residents. The traffic -- those intersections work at a high level of service as well. There are sidewalks on both sides of 11th Avenue. So when the schoolchildren are let out of school, they have -- and the sidewalks are offset from the road, so they do have safe areas to walk. And it is correct the intersection of Immokalee Drive and 11th is a four-way stop intersection, and it functions like a four-way stop intersection. Everyone has to come to a complete stop, and there's crosswalks. So if children need to walk across that intersection, they do so. I saw nothing that raised any concerns in my -- based on my observations that would present a safety concern. Also, I would like to point out that this facility is located within proximity of other schools, and it's an after-school program. And there is a high volume of these students that are walking to and from these schools. So what we're expecting is is when these schools let out, some of these students that are going to go to these after-hour programs are simply going to walk because it's close enough to their school, so there's not going to be this additional trip where they're being picked up and then driven to this other facility. And again, it's a high -- there's not a situation where there's one student walking by themself. There are a lot of students out there. So there's not this, you know, situation where it's -- there would be a concern that there's only one student walking down the street at a certain time of the day. Also, it should be pointed out that this project is aligned with the Santa Rosa Street. I'm going to step away from the microphone and just point. Well, this is Santa Rosa right here, and that goes straight out to 29th Street. So in the event that there is a situation on 11th, that is an unforeseen congestion situation, whatever it could be, a vehicle broke down in the street or something, they do have direct access out of that neighborhood onto 29. So, again, they would be able to not impact on 11th Avenue during those critical -- critical times. And then finally, I'd also like to point out that if the daycare is activated by the school, we will ensure, and it will be required, that we have enough on-site storage so when the parents do come pick up their children, they are queued up on our site, not on 11th or Santa Rosa or any of those streets. And I'd also like point out that a daycare is not like a school where the bell just rings and all the students get out one time. It's kind of -- you know, the parents trickle in, pick up their child when it's convenient for them, and then they leave. So you don't have the queuing demand at a daycare like you do at a school. So we feel that the amount of traffic that will be generated on this site, for one reason, because it's a walkable location to the adjacent schools, and it's going to be low -- it will not, again, degrade the operation of 11th Avenue, and we do have -- we will have on-site storage if the daycare is ever enacted. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Commissioner McLeod. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Yeah. I was just trying to get an understanding of the timing of things. So the middle school, the timing is at, like, 7 to 3? MR. BANKS: 7:00, 7:15 to about 3:00. They let out at 2:40, but by about 3:00 is when March 20, 2025 Page 11 of 21 the vast majority of students have been picked up. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: And so then the programs at this new center would be from, like, whatever, 3:30 to whenever? And maybe -- I don't know, you know, if Noemi wants to discuss what happens during these times. And then what happens at the facilities during the morning time when the kids are at school? Can you share? MS. PEREZ: Good morning. Noemi Perez, president and CEO of the Immokalee Foundation. So the middle school program, which is -- primarily, we serve the middle and high school -- they let out about 3:45. Most of those students are walkers -- they don't have a driver's license -- so they will be walking to our site. High school lets out about 2:05, so they would be at our site by 2:20 in order for our program to start after school at 2:30. So programming at our site runs from 2:30 till about 5:30. Again, most of our students are walkers. We have enough space in the parking lot that the cars would not be on the road. They would be in -- and Mike and his team structured it that way, because we talked about having a loop to have access, you know, for cars to just go around. We do have three shuttle buses as well that we could primarily transport students if that were an issue, as well, of concern. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Thank you. And what happens in the morning time from -- until 2 when the high schoolers come? MS. PEREZ: We do not have any programming happening. If we do have students on site, it would be our postsecondary students, and that would be minimal. But most of our staff would be working there in the morning. Some of our programming would happen in the summer as well. But we partner with FGCU, so we transport all of our students off campus for summer programs. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Okay. Great. Thank you. MS. PEREZ: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Commissioner Sparrazza. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Thank you, Chair. This may be more for staff, but along with Wayne, too. I know it's a time-staking, laborious project and process to ever think about putting traffic lights in, but has there ever been any studies throughout the Immokalee Drive area, whether it be on 9th or 11th, more likely 9th because of the schools within the vicinity, to even do a study for a traffic light? And while car traffic -- vehicle traffic, of course, is important, I'm also thinking of safety of the students. Has that ever been chatted about? MR. ARNOLD: I will discuss the pedestrian and bicycle-safety issue. So Immokalee, in the last couple of years, was a recipient of a TIGER grant, which is a federal grant that provides pedestrian accessibility throughout the community, so there's a new series of sidewalks that are being constructed throughout Immokalee. 11th, which we've been talking about, has sidewalks on both sides. So there's clearly a path for the pedestrian and cyclists to be off the roadway. But I'll let Mike Sawyer address the county roads and the signals. That would be their domain. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Wonderful. Thank you, Wayne. MR. ARNOLD: Sure. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Dr. Sawyer, good morning, sir. MR. SAWYER: Good morning, Commissioners. Mike Sawyer, Transportation Planning. Quite honestly, I don't know of any current study that has been done at this particular location. That doesn't mean that we won't. There's basically 12 criteria for a signal, and there is a whole list of things that we look at. It's a combination of the traffic. It's, you know, safety concerns. Like I said, it's a whole range of March 20, 2025 Page 12 of 21 things that we have to follow, and they're, you know, FDOT and national standards. I will also point out that when the SDP does come in for this, whether -- you know, for the church and for the daycare, depending on if they come in at the same time or independent of each other, there will be an operational analysis that is going to be required as part of the TIS. We don't do that level of detail here because what we're doing is we're simply looking at the potential zoning that might occur on the project. Once they decide in this case whether it's going to be just a church or whether it's going to be a church and the daycare or the other uses that they're proposing, that's when we go into more depth as far as looking at, again, doing a whole new TIS, but that TIS also includes an operational analysis. So at that point, if staff determines we do need to have a more in-depth study of this area because of the issues that are on 11th, that's going to happen at that point. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Great. Thank you. It was -- it's just my concern, as I stated, while vehicular traffic is of utmost concern, child safety, I would think, is monumental, and especially in the 9th area. It may not be as impactful as we're hearing, but children that need to walk to a great facility like this, just trying to make them as safe as possible. Thank you very much, Mike. I appreciate it. MR. SAWYER: Not a problem. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Secretary Shea. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Question for Jim. So in your analysis right now, do you think this change will increase or decrease the traffic congestion that the residents are speaking about? MR. BANKS: I don't think there's going to be a notable change in the congestion because the congestion that does occur out there is that short window of time that happens up at the elementary school, and we are not going to impact that situation, that seven minutes, eight minutes when the vehicles -- because the school has on-site queuing. They just -- they don't -- they don't use all their queuing capacity right now. And I don't know why they're not doing that, but they do -- they're not. And so there's -- again, there's, like, this seven- or eight-minute period right before -- right after the school is dismissed where they back out on the street, and then it clears real quick. Once it starts to clear, it immediately just -- all the vehicles are then processed -- because they load up a lot of the cars at a time. And so they -- when they -- when they are -- after they load up, you know, several of these cars, they move out, you know, 10 or 15 cars at a time. And so that queue clears instantly when it does clear. But again, we will not be contributing to that, again, because we have -- we're going to have our own on-site queuing capacity as well as we're not generating that much trips. So again, it's not going to make a measurable difference on the congestion on 11th, this project will not. COMMISSIONER SHEA: But you don't think it will reduce it, then? MR. BANKS: I don't think it's going to reduce it. I mean, there is going to be a lot of captured trips simply because the children are going to walk from these schools. But there is going to be on-site staff, and so we are going to have some traffic just where the adults are coming to and from the site. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Commissioner Colucci. COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: Well, this seems to me to be a wonderful addition for the Immokalee community as a whole. The only bone of contention that I see is -- other than the safety/pedestrian issue that you talked about -- is the bone of contention appears to be traffic from the daycare center. And my understanding is the plan is to do what can be done by the daycare center to relieve really perceived traffic issues, and that includes that the traffic would be queued up on the site for the daycare; is that correct? MR. ARNOLD: That is correct. So just to go back and explain what Mr. Banks was March 20, 2025 Page 13 of 21 talking about. So the schools don't go through a site plan review. They're exempt under your county rule. And this is an older school, highly pedestrian, but it does get traffic for people picking up their kids. And what the county would normally make people do is they have a queuing analysis that you do, and it's 25 feet per car. It's divided by -- I think it's four per student or something. But anyway, it calculates into a length of space you need to queue vehicles on site. The school didn't do that. Jim has been out there and analyzed it. They have the opportunity to probably queue all the cars they need. They just don't function that way. But we will be required, for not only the Foundation building, but for any future childcare, to queue all of our trips on site. Nobody can stack back in onto Santa Rosa or 11th. COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yeah. To add to that, it's been 10, 12 years since I've been to a daycare, but I've never been to a daycare where they had a car line. Usually people pull up, get out of your car, go get your kid, get in. But there's not, like, a queuing system like you see at the elementary schools where there's a bunch of cars lined up to get their kids from daycare. People come and go at different times. So I'm not as concerned with that traffic. Ms. Lockhart? MS. LOCKHART: Yes. I just wanted to comment that I will bring it to the attention of -- that they use -- that they evaluate whether they can use more queuing capacity at Highlands. Also -- and I wanted to comment that Immokalee Middle School had an expansion a number of years ago, and we submit a -- what we call a school board review, and with that, a Traffic Impact Statement. And I believe it was -- it was determined -- we added 400 seats to Immokalee Middle School, and it was determined that the traffic along 11th was working, that the four-way stop was good. So I tend to lean toward what Mr. Arnold is saying, and also their traffic engineer, that that traffic is working. There are, of course, issues with -- you know, like they were commenting the one -- the one bell, everybody's leaving. We try to work on that individually at schools when -- because conditions change from year to year, number of parents dropping off versus number of school bus riders. So we will take a look at Highlands. But we have the impression that everything is working on that street, so -- and with the uses that are currently there, also the uses that -- the 400-seat capacity that we were evaluated for adding has not been fully utilized, so just so you know that. So there should be. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you, Ms. Lockhart. Commissioner McLeod. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: I'm thinking maybe this does reduce traffic. So instead of the parents picking up their kids after school, these kids are either going to be shuttled or walking to these facilities, so that's less cars picking them up. Am I seeing this right? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I would think so. MS. LOCKHART: I would tend to agree with that, because they are being picked up, taken to other facilities if they -- if they are seeking after-school care or tutoring. So I think this is just a really good opportunity. This is the kind of urban development that you want to see with these multiple uses and also that it's friendly toward children, with the two sidewalks on either side, the proximity, the closeness of being able to walk. I think it's -- I think it's an ideal situation with all the different schools, elementary middle, and high school, so... And those are uses also, if I could just make one comment, that -- with the church, the daycare, the schools, the residential, these are all traditionally compatible uses. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I agree. Okay. Having -- seeing no other questions, we'll close it and open up to Board discussion or a motion. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: I would like to move forward with a motion -- hang March 20, 2025 Page 14 of 21 on. Let me get the right number -- as-is with no additional requests or prerequisites for PUDR-PL20240005475, Immokalee Senior Housing Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development. COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: I second the motion. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: All right. All in favor? COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: Aye. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Aye. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye. COMMISSIONER PETSCHER: Aye. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Aye. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Against? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Any nays? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: There you go; six-nothing. MR. ARNOLD: Thank you so much. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you. Great job out there. I know -- I know there was a comment that there's too many non-for-profits. I don't think that's true. I don't think you can have enough -- not have enough [sic] people helping people. So I applaud what you do, and I wish you all the success moving forward. Moving on, old business. Do we have any old business? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: No. New business, I think other than our conversation with Mr. Bosi, probably we can get past public comment. Any public comment? MR. RUSSO: Good morning. My name is Glen Russo. I reside at 3169 Capistrano Drive in Naples. My concern is I believe that there's a number of plot plans that have been incorrectly approved within the Fiddler's Creek development, and one of those plot plans is where I live at 3169. So the first exhibit I'd like you to look at is the 2018 master plan, and the second exhibit is the procedure for changing a master plan. When is a master plan changed, and how is it changed? MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Excuse me. Mr. Russo can speak, of course, but there is pending litigation on this matter, so you would need to refrain from any discussion. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. MR. RUSSO: Well, I've -- I've bifurcated my comments to what is not under appeal, which is the plot plan -- plot plan is not under appeal -- versus the 2024 master plan, which I have filed an appeal under. What I've said so far does not apply in any way to the 2024 master plan. It's only dealing with the 2018 master plan and plot plans that were approved according to the 2018 master plan, not the 2024. The last part of my presentation, which will only be a minute, does touch on the 2024 master plan, and I understand and agree that your comments may not be appropriate for that part. But as it relates to -- my first part of my presentation has nothing to do with the activities involved in the master -- the 2024 master plan or the plot plans -- I mean 2024 master plan or the appeal. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Can I ask you a question? What's the purpose of the -- what are you looking for from us? MR. RUSSO: I'll -- I was going to get to that. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Is that something that we can act on, Heidi? MS. ASHTON-CICKO: I would still direct -- my recommendation is to refrain from comment, but you can certainly hear what he has to say, and he does have the right to speak under March 20, 2025 Page 15 of 21 public comments. COMMISSIONER SHEA: But is he looking for action from this commission? MS. ASHTON-CICKO: I don't know what he's seeking, but I -- CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I'll ask you that question, Mr. Russo. Are you looking for action from us? What is your goal today? MR. RUSSO: My goal is to have the -- to work with the Commission and the staff to look into the plot plans which I believe were incorrectly approved, and there's at least eight of them which I will -- which we'll speak about. So I want to -- I think the county has a real serious issue here, what I'm trying to make you aware of, that plot plans were approved that did not follow the master plan and that those changes in the plot plans did require a master plan change with a public hearing. That was not done. So you have at least eight plot plans in which they were approved, they did not follow the master plan, and that master plan should have been revised. When the plot plans came in, the county should have said, "Well, wait a minute. These plot plans you're giving us don't match the master plan of 2018." This is all before -- this is in 2022. Okay. This was all before the application for the 2024 or any of that. That's why I believe you can comment on it, because this is activity and actions that occurred even before the 2024 master plan was even filed, okay. This is a different subject, okay, at least this part of my presentation. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Okay. So -- COMMISSIONER SHEA: Have you talked with staff? It seems like usually we wouldn't see this until you guys have communicated and come to some -- MS. ASHTON-CICKO: He's referring to approved development orders which could be Site Development Plan; it can be building permit; it can be a rezone. He's commenting on approved development orders, and you, as a Planning Commission, do not have the authority to open up an approved development order. COMMISSIONER SHEA: But I guess I'm interested -- usually you guys have communicated before we see anything. MR. BOSI: This is a -- maybe I'll provide a little clarification to the Planning Commission. This is a public comment. Anybody can come up here and say anything they want. There's no action required. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Okay. Thank you. MR. BOSI: Just -- you allow him to speak what he asks [sic], make whatever requests that he makes, you'll -- and you'll take whatever steps that you feel is appropriate. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I would still tell the Planning Commission, as the County Attorney just said, I wouldn't engage in questions. I do want to hear what you have to say. I am interested to hear it. MR. RUSSO: Sure. That's fair enough. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Thank you. MR. RUSSO: So your regulations, which are on the screen there, if you can turn to Page 3 -- and I'm not sure, with all the back-and-forth and questions, does that get deducted from my five minutes, or do I get -- CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: No, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. MR. RUSSO: So you have a process when a plot plan -- or when somebody wants to change your master plan, and that process is divided into three stages: Minor change, middle-of-the-road change, and significant change. Significant changes require public hearings. Minor changes are done by staff. The middle of the run is staff and the Commission, if I got that correct. But I'm mostly focused on when a plot plan comes in and it doesn't follow the master plan in a significant way, a public hearing should be triggered so that the public can come in and say, "Wait a minute. You're changing this or that. We as the public want to give you our side of the March 20, 2025 Page 16 of 21 story." The developer will give their side of the story, and then you as a commission can weigh the two and make a decision as, "Hey, you know, that's a good point," or "that's a good point" or "we think that that's not a good point at all." When the plot plans come in and they change the master plan in a major way or don't follow it in a major way, there is no opportunity for the public to comment. There's no public hearings. There's no public notice. There's no neighborhood meetings. There's nothing. And that's what occurred in the plot plan that I live in. They came in, and they made a major change which should have triggered a master plan public hearing. That did not happen. So that got approved, and nobody from our -- we weren't notified. We weren't mailed or nothing, and that's the problem that I think you have. It's a very significant due-process problem. So we believe that -- I believe that there was a plot plan -- I'll say the one that I live in -- that triggered the necessity for a public hearing master plan amendment, which was never done. Okay. Now, if you go to Page 4, please, of this, these other items that trigger a master -- a major change of the master plan, and the one I'll focus in on is the traffic circulation. So if you change the traffic circulation of the master plan, that is an automatic major change which automatically requires a public hearing, okay? That was not done in the case of the plot plan. And so there's other criteria that I highlighted. And I submitted all this, and I would suggest -- if the staff can make copies, then you guys can look through it, I think that you'll find it very enlightening, and I think you really need to look at it, because I think you have a very significant issue or possible breakdown of your system, of which where I live was caught up in it. But it's not just for me. My interest is for me, but your interest should be, "Well, are plot plans following the master plan like it's supposed to be, or are we doing it reverse? Do we have the tail wagging the dog?" And in this case, I think you have the tail wagging the dog. So that's what triggers a major change, and I believe that the plot plans that I will give you all fall into one or more of those categories. So on Exhibit 3, these are all the areas that I believe plot plans did not follow the master plan. And all of this -- all of the development in these areas that are highlighted should have triggered a public hearing, of which none of them did. Now I'm a -- I've been a developer for 30 years, so I'm actually -- I read maps, and I do what the developer of Fiddler's Creek does. I build office buildings and shopping centers and apartment buildings and got all the approvals, so I kind of understand the process. And I've checked myself and rechecked myself, because my assertions are pretty -- pretty significant. So I don't take what I'm saying lightly. So these are visually the areas. Now, what I'd like to submit as Exhibit 4 is eight plot plans, at least, that have been approved by the county with -- that had significant differences from the master -- the 2018 master plan, and no master plan amendment or revision was done, certainly not a public hearing one. So I believe you have a very significant problem. Now, the issue is, is that -- is this limited to Fiddler's Creek? Are there other developments where they're coming in with plot plans that don't match the master plan that are being approved without the master plan being adjusted? Because the master plan is where you guys get involved and the public gets involved, and you say, "You know what, that's not a good idea. That road that was going this way should go that way," or "You know what, all this preserved area that was on the master plan, you know, you're reducing it significantly. We don't think that's a good idea." And the public gets up and says, "We don't think that's a good idea," and the developer says, "Well, it is because we're going to give more land over here." And you guys say, "Well, that sounds like a good idea. We're getting more land out of it, or maybe it's just a bad idea." The point is, there should be a discussion. That whole discussion process, public hearing and your back-and-forth with the public, you've been basically -- how do I say this? You've been March 20, 2025 Page 17 of 21 denied that opportunity, which I think is a significant problem, especially if it goes beyond Fiddler's Creek and these eight. I mean, if this is going on on a regular basis, there could be a breakdown in your system where some -- because they're supposed to take the master -- the plot plans, and they're supposed to overlay them on the master plan and say, "Is it generally following?" Okay. We know that the plot plans are more detailed. They have lot lines and all that. But if roads appear from nowhere or dead-ends turn into through roads or clubhouses drop -- just they're -- they're not on the master plan, they're nowhere, there's now a 40,000-square-foot plot -- clubhouse. Well, where'd that come from? Well, that was approved on the plot plan level. No public hearing. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Can you go through that pile and pick one or two of what you think are the most egregious changes? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I was actually going to tell Mr. Russo I've now given him seven minutes since we've restarted the clock at 9:54. So I'm going to have to ask you to wrap it up, sir. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Yeah. It would be good to see, though -- you're saying a lot of things, and we're not seeing a specific example of the types of issues you're talking about. MR. RUSSO: I can show you one, if you'd like. COMMISSIONER SHEA: I would appreciate seeing one, just to get a feel. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Just one is good. MR. RUSSO: If you go to the master plan, 2018. Is there -- how do you use the pointer? Is there -- oh, my finger, okay. So right there, this is the road system for southern Estancia, and this is Marsh Cove. And you can see Marsh Cove is a dead-end, okay. What -- the plot plan for my development that was approved connected a road between here and here, okay. That is a traffic circulation change. Now, in discussions with staff, they've said, Well -- because this has been brought up. "Well, under a minor change -- if you change the alignment of a right-of-way, it's a minor change. It doesn't require a public hearing." But my question is, if a realignment of a right-of-way changes the traffic circulation, which this clearly does -- all right. When you change -- the traffic was -- from southern Estancia was all going out on Route 41 -- yeah, Route 41. All that was -- by the plot plan was changed to go through Marsh Cove, our development. So they turned our dead-end street and took all the traffic from southern Estancia, ran it through our development. No master plan public hearing. Now, that is circuit -- that is traffic circulation change. And if you look at Exhibit 2 that I gave, that clearly triggers a master plan. So when a right-of-way, which might not -- realignment, which may not trigger a master plan. But when that right-of-way changing changes traffic circulation, that is a clear-cut requirement for a public hearing. So the master plan that was approved for my development, I believe, was illegally approved, and I would ask -- there's a five-year limit of -- statute of limitations based on a lack of public notice. I would prefer to work with this commission and staff to get the plot plan, regarding my development where I live that I believe was incorrectly approved, revoked. If this commission does not revoke it, then I will file a declaration with the Court to review the process, because I think there is a black-and-white issue that wasn't followed. But I don't like doing that. I would much rather work with staff, work with the Commission and say, "Listen, we have a problem." And so that's -- and then just one last point, if you don't mind. So this is really where the rubber meets the road, and this is now where I'm into the appeal, okay. So this is now the 2024. And this is the really big, big problem. So I brought this up when they came in for the master plan, and the developer said, "All March 20, 2025 Page 18 of 21 these connections, they're already approved. The connection of Marsh Cove, that's approved already by a plot plan." That -- quote-unquote, "That ship has sailed. You guys can't vote on that connection because it's already been approved." So by coming in and getting what should have -- coming in and getting a change that required a public hearing, which was not, they get it approved with no comment -- oops, oh. I'm sorry. They get it approved with no comment from the public and no substantial discussion on your guys' part, okay. They get that in. We don't even know about it. Then they come to -- they took a whole series of plot plan changes. At least -- I'll surmise maybe it was a dozen plot -- changes in the plot plan that didn't follow the master plan. And when they came in with the master plan, they said, "Oh, we're just truing up the master plan." And all these changes that were done under the plot plan, you guys, because you've already approved it, you have no say in it. So the public -- and this is why there's a five-year limit of statutations [sic] because the county and the -- the county, the State of Florida, and the court system are very, very sensitive about locking out public hearing. Their attitude is you can make your argument. You can have your day in court, so to speak. And you win or you don't win on the merits. And if you don't win on the merits, you just say, "Okay. Well, that's the way -- you know, that's how the cookie crumbles," so to speak. But when you are robbed from making that input, we never had an opportunity in a public hearing format to have you or the county decide, "Hey, that's a bad idea," because when we got to the point that we knew about it and said, "Hey, that's a bad idea," the developer said, "Too late. The county already approved it." And that is a real -- obviously, you can see you do have developments that are -- master plans that are being created by plot plan at a time, and that's not the way I think this Planning Commission wants to run the county. It's supposed to be the opposite. Big concept. Master plan. Hey, this looks good. This is over here. That's good. Great, we approve that. Now give us the details. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay, Mr. Russo. I want to thank you for your comments. We've gone well beyond, and I will -- MR. RUSSO: And I thank you for the additional time. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: You got it, sir. Thank you. Mike, we did want to move into you and talk to you about what we had started out the meeting with. MR. BOSI: And I just wanted to -- I did get a note from Mr. Summers that Commissioner Schmitt had raised his hand and was going to provide a comment. I'm not sure if you wanted to hear that, or do you want me to go on? COMMISSIONER SHEA: Is he on Zoom? MR. BOSI: Yes. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yeah, I mean. It's the Chair's prerogative. Absolutely. MR. SUMMERS: Mr. Schmitt, you're allowed to speak, if you could unmute yourself. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Is he going to vote -- did he vote on the other items? CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I don't know. COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: No. MR. BOSI: No. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: No. So now he's just going to provide a comment. COMMISSIONER SHEA: Which we should have. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Because you didn't approve his participation by -- you know, so -- CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: So should I ask for approval of his participation now? MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Sure. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: I'd take a motion to approve Chair Schmitt. March 20, 2025 Page 19 of 21 COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: So motioned. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Second? COMMISSIONER SHEA: Second. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: All in favor? COMMISSIONER COLUCCI: (No verbal response.) COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: (No verbal response.) COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye. COMMISSIONER PETSCHER: Aye. COMMISSIONER McLEOD: Aye. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Mr. Schmitt, you have the floor, Chair. Is he there? Unmute. Mute. (No response.) MR. SUMMERS: He's unmuted at this time. We just -- he might be having some audio difficulties on his end. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Well, unfortunately, Chair Schmitt, we can't hear you, sir. MR. SUMMERS: Yeah. He muted himself now, so... CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Okay. Mr. Bosi. MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Zoning Director. And I think what you're asking for is just an overview of what potentially has happened within the State Legislature. And I'm not going to really concentrate on one specific bill because there are a number of different bills that are out there. Some of the bills have been introduced to require where -- that you have a single-family dwelling unit, that a county cannot prohibit accessory dwelling units from being placed upon those properties. There's in -- within -- within the bill, it also indicates of how they can't be -- they can't be required to add additional parking if that is going to be required. So there's some -- there are some concerning issues that have been decided at the local level that it wasn't appropriate for the county to have a program such as that, and the State Legislature is contemplating provisions within bills that would require any single-family zoning district to allow for accessory dwelling units. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: There is -- there is in that bill -- I'm sorry, Mr. Bosi. I didn't mean to interrupt. But there is also in that bill a provision where if it's affordable housing that you add in, you can't lose your homestead either. So that kind of goes -- but I don't know how on -- how on the county side would we possibly have to manage that? I mean -- MR. BOSI: It would be extremely difficult. I mean, that would be an extremely difficult measure. And we'd have to wait until -- how the -- once the bill would be adopted, there would be some guidance that we would have to seek from our County Attorney's Office and hopefully from other resources to try to say, "How would those affect?" Another bill is opening up the PUDs. The Board of County Commissioners was specific that PUDs are individual contracts, and they are, therefore, unique and not eligible. Well, they have said that they are eligible. And one of the key points was the density associated with them are eligible. So the density that was associated with the mini-triangle PUD which allows 167 feet would be that height that's allowed within the jurisdiction. So those are the type of things that potentially could be damaging. The one thing that is probably still the safeguard that's in place is there's been no modification towards -- that they have to satisfy the most similar adopted zoning district that the county or jurisdiction would have; therefore -- and it would still be subject to the RMF-16 development standards, and that RMF-16 development standards has a requirement that your setbacks are half the height of your building. So even if you were entitled to 167 acres [sic], if you only had a 200-foot-wide -- or a 200-foot-wide commercial property that was -- you know, that was shallow but long, you would be March 20, 2025 Page 20 of 21 really confined because your front and rear would be something that you would have to have a 50 -- you'd have half the height of the building. So if you're at -- if you try to get 100 foot, you'd have to be 50/50, and they're really trying to confine this in a really small footprint. And so that has been one of the things that has dissuaded a number of the Live Local projects under the current regulations, but that has not been proposed to change. So that is one thing that we still recognize would be able to provide some additional protections. But at the end of the day, the State Legislature is going to do what the State Legislature feels is appropriate for the state as a whole, and we'll have to deal with what the ramifications are and work with the County Attorney's Office in terms of how best to comply with the state statutes but also provide for the most amount of home or local rule that we possibly would be allowed underneath how those regulations are presented out. So there's still a lot of uncertainty. What I can do -- over the next 30 days, the legislature will be starting to wrap up those sessions. I can give another -- I can just look out to, say, the second meeting in April, give you an update towards where all -- some of these issues that directly will affect us, specifically the Live Local and the ADU units. I'll give you an update at the, say, second meeting in April. CHAIRMAN SCHUMACHER: Yeah. The Legislature wraps up the end of April. They only have 60 days. So by the end of April, we should -- once it comes out -- once -- the committees are going to be -- are right now, so we'll see what comes out of committee over the next couple weeks, and then the next 30 days after that is where it's going to get hectic. But they are something to keep in mind because the Senate and the House still both match, and once the Senate and the House Bill matches, and then it goes to committee, that's where you get kind of tricky. Now, if it was just a Senate bill that was introduced but no House Bill, well, then it probably wouldn't be a point of discussion because they both have to -- they both have to align. Right now these are gaining traction. And I know the governor had pushed for no property taxes, and there are some bills out there that look like there's ways of lessening that, and especially the one with the accessory dwellings is, but that month of April will be the one to watch. All right. Okay. Having no further business, I will call to adjourn at 10:15 a.m. Thank you, all. ******* March 20, 2025 Page 21 of 21 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:15 a.m. COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION _________________________________________ JOE SCHMITT, CHAIRMAN These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as presented __________ or as corrected ___________. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, RPR, FPR-C, COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC. 5/15/2025 X