Loading...
CLB Minutes 12/19/2007 R December 19,2007 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida December 19,2007 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 10:30 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Community Development and Environmental Services, Room 609/610, 2800 Horseshoe Drive, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson Michael Boyd Syd Blum Eric Guite' Glenn Herriman Lee Horn Richard Joslin Ann Keller William Lewis (Absent) ALSO PRESENT: Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney Patrick Neale, Attorney for the CLB Board Michael Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing & Compliance Officer Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: WEDNESDAY - DECEMBER 19, 2007 TIME: 10:30 A.M. COLLIER COUNTY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES CENTER 2800 N. HORSESHOE DRIVE CONF.ROOM 609-610 NAPLES. FL 34104 ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: October 16, 2007 V. DISCUSSION: Lisa Koehler - Contractor Licensing flier for Utility bills. Dane D. Horstead Four year review forms for B.O.C.C. VI. NEW BUSINESS: Stacie Rosen - Review of Experience Affidavits. Frederick Haas - Contesting Citation. Kenneth Carter - Request to qualify a 2"d entity. Matthew Cook - Request to qualify a 2"d entity. Julio A. Serranco - Request to reinstate license without retaking exams. Robert R. Steele - Request to reinstate license without retaking exams. Antonio leradi - Review of credit report. VII. OLD BUSINESS: PAGE 2 - AGENDA - CONTINUED COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: WEDNESDAY - DECEMBER 19, 2007 TIME: 10:30 A.M. COLLIER COUNTY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES CENTER 2800 N. HORSESHOE DRIVE CONF.ROOM 609-610 NAPLES, FL 34104 VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case #2007-12 Daniel Maia D/B/A Custom Floors Solutions, Inc. Case #2007-13 Peter Kallie D/B/A KaUin Construction, Inc. IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESSDAY JANUARY 16, 2007 W. HARMAN TURNER BUILDING, 3RD FLOOR 3101 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL (COURTHOUSE COMPLEX) December 19, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County contractor licensing board, December 19th, 2007. Anyone who would like to file an appeal on any decisions rendered here today will need a verbatim record of the proceedings, which is being taken. I'd like to start first with roll call to my right. Mr. Blum? MR. BLUM: Syd Blum. MR. HERRIMAN: Glenn Herriman. MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And Lee Horn is present. Good mornmg. Mr. Bartoe, any additions or deletions to the minutes? MR. BARTOE: Good morning. For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance Officer. Staff has one addition to put under new business. Mr. James King requests to be licensed with a federal tax lien. Mr. Ossorio advised me that Mr. King does have copies that he can give everyone. And staff has no other additions or deletions. But under new business, one correction. The one name reads Julio A. Serranco. There's no C in that, from everything I've been able to read. It's Serrano, not Serranco. And staff has no other additions or deletions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to approve the agenda as amended? MR. BLUM: Move to accept. MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. Page 2 December 19, 2007 MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? Done. Minutes. The minutes from the last meeting. I need an approval of those. MR. BLUM: Move to approve the minutes as submitted. MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. Any opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So done. Discussion. Lisa, you're -- we're starting off with you. Good mornmg. MS. KOEHLER: Good morning, how are you? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good. Lisa Koehler. MS. KOEHLER: Yes. And for the record, you need my name. Lisa Koehler, Public Information Coordinator. And you guys really don't have to be so nice to Mike. He's pretty tough. He can take it, even though he's not feeling so well. So you don't have to be so nice to him today. Page 3 December 19, 2007 MR. JOSLIN: Glad you told me that. MS. KOEHLER: You have in your packet the flier that we've created. And we've used this before. Looks like this. You have the black and white version. We intend to send out in utility bills for Collier County customers, City of Naples, City of Marco utility customers, totaling 67,000 folks, in the January, February and March billing cycles, depending on the cycle that we can jump into. For Collier County, they will be going out in the January cycle. It's a great time of year. We've got our maximum amount of residents visiting. It's a great opportunity for us to educate folks about selecting the correct contractor, using our staff to make sure that they make the best choices for themselves. So we wanted to get your approval on this as well, make sure, you know, you approve that. And if there's any changes you'd like to see, we have time to make those before they need to go out. So just looking for your approval this morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a question for you. MS. KOEHLER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can we make a change and still get it done? MS. KOEHLER: Absolutely. Absolutely. We have two weeks before these have to go out. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Your very first item, contractor displays only a business tax receipt, that law was changed 16 months ago but our tax collector made a mistake and all of the occupational licenses for 2007-2008 still say occupational license. MR. NEALE: I just got mine for -- and it said business tax receipt. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but I can show you mine and it says occupational license. MR. JOSLIN: Mine, too. Page 4 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because the ones that were done for the contractor still say occupational license. And that was an error from the tax collector's office. MS. KOEHLER: So you want me to add occupational license as well as business tax receipt, since we've got two of them? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, contractors -- none of the contractors are going to say business tax receipt for this year. It's going to say occupational license. MS. KOEHLER: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So I need to address occupational license. They finally got it right, but too late. Okay? MS. KOEHLER: Okay, sure. MS. KELLER: Lisa, I had a comment on this, too. On the third exclamation point, it says a large down payment of deposit before work begins. And I think it would be really helpful if we can put the exact terms or the regulations that are required. Because then it's -- you know, it's not just telling them that you can't ask for a large amount. But we actually have -- we can specify exactly what they are required by law to do. And I think that's one question that people are always asking me -- MR. BLUM: Constantly. MS. KOEHLER: Is how much I should be-- MS. KELLER: How much do I need to put down. MR. BLUM: Can you suggest an appropriate amount? Ten percent, 20, no more than "X" amount of percentage? Is that possible? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You want me to give you that state statute? MS. KELLER: That's in the statute. MS. KOEHLER: Mike, do you have that? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got it. MR. OSSORIO: We have it here. Mr. Chairman, for the record, Mike Ossorio, Collier County Page 5 December 19,2007 Contractor Licensing. This is a government document. I know if you want -- I know it says 10 percent or must start work within 30 days or otherwise specified. I don't know if you want county government to mandate to homeowners that contractors only give (sic) 10 percent. There's not many contractors only take 10 percent. Because of circumstances, building permits take more than 30 days or 60 days. It specifies it must be 10 percent or start work within 30 days or must specify in the contract. I don't know if we want to put ourselves out there and let the, you know, 67,000 people out there says, well, don't -- you know, if a contractor asks more than 10 percent then don't do it. I don't think we want to get into that. MR. BLUM: Can we say something in the order of it is recommended that initial deposits don't exceed more than, pick a number, 20, 25, 30, give enough latitude where the contractor and the homeowner should be comfortable? Because what I'm seeing is most of these contractors are looking for 50 percent, and we know that that's MR. OSSORIO: Some do. I mean, shutter companies, you have pool contractors do more than 10 percent. You have, you know, the aluminum contractors out there take more than 10 percent. And they specify in the contract. So -- MS. KOEHLER: And as long as they specify in the contract, then it's okay; is that correct? MR. BLUM: If the homeowner agrees to it. MS. KELLER: No, it's not. Because we had people that had contracts that were in violation of the state law -- MR. BLUM: Ann, you've got to speak into the mic. MS. KELLER: -- that we ended up having them coming before us, and that was one of the issues that we've had. So I don't know -- MS. KOEHLER: As Mike and I were going through that, that Page 6 December 19, 2007 was one of the things we were talking about is what's going to be confusing to our residents as they read this and working with the contractors. So we can certainly put the law in there, but is it going to be clear for everybody? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we also can't legislate common sense. Like the one case we had $38,000 on a $50,000 contract. And which by the way he put it in my name instead of the company name. So there has to be common sense. I don't like the one next to it, below that. I request money during early phases of construction when I bring in material and do work, but I don't request deposits. So really, I just don't like that statement. MR. OSSORIO: Well, I think what they're saying, Mr. Chairman, is that early phase of construction, in other words, they're not due a draw. And I'll work on that. In other words, if you give them a deposit and then in midstream they require more money, even though it's not part of the contract. And that happens often. Some homeowners do give more money than they should. And I'll work on that with Lisa. MS. KELLER: What about saying something about how you have the right to pay the supplier directly? Is that possible, or is that -- do you guys not like -- MR. BLUM: You don't want to do that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You don't want to go there. MR. GUITE': There's a lot of suppliers that won't deal with a homeowner at all. MS. KELLER: Right. MR. BLUM: Can we put some kind of recommended language as far as the percentage of deposit? MS. KOEHLER: What the deposit should be? MR. BLUM: Yeah, pick a number that's kind of comfortable but less than half. MS. KOEHLER: Well, what do you guys feel we should be Page 7 December 19, 2007 telling the public? MR. BLUM: I personally would recommend no more than 30 percent. That would be my personal feeling. MR. JOSLIN: I don't know. Someone that sits on the licensing board and deals with contractors all the time that take deposits, I don't think it's really our position to be able to dictate how much a contractor requires for a -- MR. BLUM: Well, it's not our position, it's theirs. MR. JOSLIN: -- contract. MR. BLUM: We're recommending to them the language. MR. JOSLIN: We're recommending language, but we're-- MS. KOEHLER: And quite honestly, that's why we went-- MR. JOSLIN: -- we're adopting. THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, could you speak one at a time, please. MS. KOEHLER: Quite honestly, that is why we went with the vague language of just saying beware of a large down payment. What's large to one person isn't going to be large to another person. But we didn't -- we were going through the same struggles as you guys are right now with should we do the 10 percent, 20 percent, should we just sort of stay out of their business and just say if they're asking for a large sum of money, it's a warning sign. Doesn't mean you shouldn't hire them, but it's just one of those warnings. So that was why we went with the vague language. But, you know, whatever you guys would like to do, we will certainly -- MR. JOSLIN: I'd be more prone to agree to a vague language than I would to try to dictate some kind of a percentage to any contractors out here that are doing work. I mean, you're going to find deposits all over the place. Now, I could understand taking three-quarters or almost all of your money up front. There's no doubt, the light should come on. But some contractors do require deposits to pay for materials because Page 8 December 19,2007 there's maybe a lot of overhead costs that are going to happen with that job. And then like Les said, along with the job as the job proceeds there are other costs which I do draws -- I'll be honest with you, I do draws as it progresses. And that's the only way it works. I've been doing this for 30 years in Naples, and I don't have a problem. MR. BLUM: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: I mean, if you do the work correctly and you are licensed, there shouldn't be a problem. MR. NEALE: I would suggest to the board that that would be appropriate. The only way I would address the statutory language is to be fairly specific. Because the statute says you can take as large a deposit as you want, but if you do, then there's certain things you have to do within a certain period of time. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. MR. NEALE: Get the permit, work commence and so forth, so MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Rather than --let me ask you this: What's your drop-dead date on this? MS. KOEHLER: We need to send those to the printer next -- I believe next Thursday. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thursday? Okay. How about if! and anyone else on the board who wants to meet with you, we do that between now and -- wow, that's close. MS. KOEHLER: Yeah, with the holiday. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because I don't have time to do this in this meeting today, because I have other issues with some of the other things as well. MS. KOEHLER: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to sit down and talk with you. Does anyone else want to join me? MR. JOSLIN: Yes, I would. Page 9 December 19,2007 MS. KELLER: I think we should delay it and do it in the January meeting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Chairman and vice-chairman will meet with you, is that okay with the board? And we'll go through these before it goes out. And we'll meet with you, if not Thursday or Friday, it will be Wednesday. MS. KOEHLER: Okay, that would be fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That would be all right? MS. KOEHLER: Yeah. And are there any others that you want us to start working on or think about? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why don't we just work it out-- MS. KOEHLER: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- between the three of us? Is that okay, Mike? MR. OSSORIO: That's fine with me, sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you'd be involved in that as well? MR. OSSORIO: Excellent. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going to lose a quorum here in about two hours -- MS. KOEHLER: I understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- so I've got to move. MS. KOEHLER: Okay, very good. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But I'll get an e-mail out to you today. MR. NEALE: What I would suggest, and Mr. Zachary just brought it up, and it's probably a good issue is that it probably -- if you're going to have a meeting outside of this meeting, it should -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, Sunshine. MR. NEALE: -- only be one of you because of Sunshine issues. If the two of you are there, there may be a Sunshine Law concern, and we should be -- MR. JOSLIN: Could it be like a workshop where we're going to try to work the details out? Page 10 December 19,2007 MS. KOEHLER: Can we work on it with the chairman and then send an e-mail -- MR. NEALE: That would be fine. MS. KOEHLER: -- out and say this is the final draft? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Great. MR. OSSORIO: Fine with me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That means we'll meet tomorrow or Friday. MS. KOEHLER: Tomorrow would be better for me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that okay, Mr. Neale and Mr. Zachary? MR. NEALE: Yeah. MR. ZACHARY: I think that's right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, Lisa. And I'm sorry to cut you short. It's just it's a lot of stuff today. MS. KOEHLER: That's all right, you guys have a very busy agenda. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Dane Horstead? MR. HORSTEAD: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Dane, if you'll state your name and I'll have you sworn in, sir. MR. HORSTEAD: Dane Douglas Horstead. (Witness was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have no idea why you're on the agenda, so you tell me. MR. HORSTEAD: Well, I had several issues I wanted to discuss. One of them being fees. I think there were some computer glitches five years ago with the county computers. I got a billing approximately the middle of last month for a job inspection for hurricane shutters that was performed in January of 2002. The statute of limitations has expired on that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me ask you something right off Page 11 December 19,2007 the bat. Did you close out your permit? Did you C.O. it? MR. HORSTEAD: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Did you pay all the fines or fees that were due, if there was -- MR. HORSTEAD: That's been paid, but I paid it under protest. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Are you required to pull a survey when it's all finished, the job is finished, showing that new installation? MR. HORSTEAD: A survey, I'm not sure I follow your -- MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, for the record, Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing. I'll speak on his behalf. We are in the process -- the building department, we are in the process of renewing our efforts on our computer glitches, as Mr. Horstead stated, and we are contacting several thousand contractors about their outstanding building permits. And it's our position that if you pull a building permit within Collier County, we need to make sure we get it closed out for the consumer, which is our customers. And we are in the process of doing that. When you close out a building department, there are fees owed. And to close out some permits you have to pay fees. This gentleman pulled a building permit several years ago and it's for shutter installation which doesn't require a survey. But unfortunately he did fail an inspection, and when you do a reinspection there are some fees with that. And we asked Mr. Horstead to go ahead and close out his building permit. He did. And then wanted to at least communicate to the board that he wasn't happy. So this is just an informative discussion to put on the record that he is particularly -- not particularly happy about paying these fees, and that was about it. MR. HORSTEAD: I did not fail the inspection. The inspector Page 12 December 19, 2007 never showed up. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're talking one? MR. HORSTEAD: I phoned in for a second inspection, because the first one didn't show up. And consequently when I got the billing five years later, or almost five years later, I was told I was billed for a second inspection, which I knew nothing about. MR. JOSLIN: I think probably what you're referring to is you got the letter in the mail saying that you were going to have your license suspended if you didn't close out this permit and such goes on, right? MR. HORSTEAD: Yes, sir. I paid that. MR. JOSLIN: There are many contractors in town that have gotten that same letter. And I believe if you go down to the -- into the other office and see -- I can't remember the lady's name in there at the moment, but I had to do the same thing as a pool contractor. I had, I don't know, maybe five or six permits that were back to '89, '87, and they're trying to just clean these up. And I think it would be a very simple process, if you go in there and see them, they'll take care of it, and it's not a really big deal. MR. HORSTEAD: I'm not worried about the $150. That's not the issue. I have been talking with county commissioners, as well as some of the other folks here at the permitting department and such about the statutes that apply to hurricane shutters. The Florida statute specifically says that the shutters shall be approved without further evaluation. The statutes have a built-in glossary. Evaluation is not defined. However, Merriam Webster and the American Heritage dictionary define an evaluation as an inspection or examination. The statute specifically -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So what --let me stop -- whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop. Because I don't need quotes from dictionaries, I'm sorry . What is your complaint? You want to protest the $150 and that's Page 13 December 19, 2007 it? MR. HORSTEAD: Well, yeah, it's in support of the $150, but that really is not my complaint. The complaint is the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Be specific on your complaint. MR. HORSTEAD: -- fact the statute is being ignored. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's being ignored? MR. HORSTEAD: The statute. It says the shutters shall be permitted, the license shall be issued without further examination. MR. JOSLIN: Okay, I'm a little concerned -- MR. HORSTEAD: This has already been to the county's attorney, Mr. Klatzkow, I believe his name is, in which he has replied that I am correct. And then he goes on to say, however, I believe -- and I cut him off at that point. His belief has absolutely nothing to do with the statute. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Comment, Mr. Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, thank you. For the record, Mike Ossorio. I just wanted -- I don't think we should -- Mr. Horstead wanted to go ahead and voice his concern. He did so. I think we should move on. We do have a big agenda. I'll leave it at that. MR. JOSLIN: It's not that we're trying to cut you off, but I think you're in the wrong department, actually, for your complaint and for what you're trying to have done. Because this is a licensing board. We control licenses, we don't control permit fees and permitting and all that. MR. HORSTEAD: Well, I assumed that this was concern, being the original issue was the $150 fee, which was beyond the statute of limitations. MR. JOSLIN: Right. Again, though, but that $150 fee did not come from this board. We didn't fine you because of that. Collier County fined you because of that, or permitting did that. So I think that you're speaking to the wrong people. MR. HORSTEAD: Well-- Page 14 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, Mr. Horstead. MR. HORSTEAD: -- I came where I was told to come, so-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, thank you. Four-year review ofBOCC. MR. OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. This is a -- you and I discussed, the Board of County Commissioners every four years wants to know what the licensing board is doing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: Especially in '07. And Tom Bartoe and myself, we completed it. I did send you the rough draft and have a copy here. And I just want to go ahead and give this to you and then you can review it at your leisure and we can discuss it in January's meeting. This has to be turned in by January 31st of'08. So we do have some time. And with that, I'll just go ahead and pass it out. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And this is the one that we go to in March? MR. BARTOE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BARTOE: You are the one supposed to be there, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Yeah, I've done that before. MR. BARTOE: To answer any and all questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: New business. Stacie Rosen, are you present? MS. ROSEN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Stacie, if you would, come up to the podium. I'll have you sworn in. State your name, please. MS. ROSEN: Stacie Rosen. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning to you. MS. ROSEN: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And this is Classic Floors, correct? MS. ROSEN: Yes. Page 15 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And what you're wanting to do is review your experience, affidavits. Let me ask you this: Usually when we see this, someone -- we usually call someone to verify an experience affidavit and they didn't know anything about it; is that correct? MS. ROSEN: No, actually, Mr. Ossorio didn't get to that point. When the conversation he and I had, he said what I was doing would not qualify for experience. Shall I explain to you how -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, go right ahead. MS. ROSEN: We have a flooring store. We supply material, wood, carpet, et cetera. We've have numerous gentlemen that are already licensed wanting to come and install for us. We were told that Classic Floors had to hold the license. We couldn't hire licensed guys to do the work. So for the past three plus years I've been helping guys that my husband knows through the business to learn the proper procedure, the proper waterproofing, et cetera, to get the license and to be able to give them work when customers come to us and want to buy flooring, carpeting or whatever, and give the jobs to them, should they want them. We don't want to hire in-house people that are not experienced to do the work. We sort of! guess want to farm it out, if you will. So that's why I'm here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In other words, the nasty dirty word, subcontracting. MS. ROSEN: Yeah, the two guys that are already licensed themselves. A lot of guys have been slow, they're not getting work, they don't have store fronts. We have a 3,000 plus foot showroom and warehouse and offices, so they're coming to us. And if we get jobs that customer want to have installation as well, we refer them to these different companies, because we can't do the work ourselves under one contract. Page 16 December 19, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And Michael, you want to chime in on this one? MR. OSSORIO: Sure. I just have one question. Mrs. Rosen, how long have you been in the floor business? MS. ROSEN: It's a little over three years. Like three years and two months. MR. OSSORIO: And in your business, do you have tile and marble do you sell or just wood flooring? MS. ROSEN: Tile, marble, wood and carpet. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I make a -- we have no objection of Mrs. Rosen getting a license today. She's going to be getting two licenses: One would be tile and marble, the other would be floor covering. Her experience letters were somewhat ambiguous, and I assumed we should bring it to the board, but after hearing testimony today I think we should go ahead and approve the license. I have no objection. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have to act, Mr. Neale, or can I let it just go? County's pulling it back. MR. NEALE: Since it's already here -- you know, since it's already been recommended to the board, you can -- you should act. But can accept it. MS. KELLER: I just have one question. On your Experian credit report it says your current employer is Weigold Air Conditioning. MS. ROSEN: That was back in like '91 I worked for-- MS. KELLER: And Dixie Plumbing. MS. ROSEN: Yeah. MS. KELLER: You should update that. MS. ROSEN: I -- actually I have. Because there were a few things on there that shouldn't have been. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you worked for Butch? Page 17 December 19,2007 MS. ROSEN: I love Butch and Mary. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good man. MS. ROSEN: Wonderful people to work for. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good people. MS. ROSEN: Aboveboard and always honest. MR. JOSLIN: If that's the case, I'll make the motion that we approve the license for Stacie Rosen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll second it. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Congratulations. By the way, though, even though you're here, you can't go around the corner -- and this applies to all of you -- because all of your stuff is in here. If you go see Maggie, she can't help you today. MS. ROSEN: I'll wait to get the phone call. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MS. ROSEN: Thank you. Have a nice Christmas. Do I need to stay for the whole meeting for everybody? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, you're done. You're done. MS. ROSEN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Welcome. Do well. Page 18 December 19,2007 MS. ROSEN: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Frederick Haas, are you here? MR. HAAS: Yes, I am. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you'd do the same thing. MR. HAAS: I'm Frederick Haas with Complete Lawn Care and Landscaping. And -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need to have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. HAAS: I had an issue that came up. I've been in business for almost nine years, and it was a situation where I got called in to the office and they came in and said I had one resident -- it's my first one in nine years -- that had a problem with his lawn. And they reviewed it and everything and said, well, there's no cause at this point, but we do have a situation with your license that we're noticing. And they said your license had been canceled. And I said, canceled? But I have my license, I have -- it's on the wall in my office and so on. And my wife took care of it and so on. And they said, no, what you have is an occupational license, you don't have a regular license. So it was very confusing. I'll back it up. Back in 2005 I was in an automobile accident on wonderful Immokalee Road there, sitting at a stoplight and got rear-ended. And make a long story short, I've had two back operations, I've had a shoulder operation and blood clots, got an operation for that. So I was in the hospital most of the time in and out for the different operations. My wife had taken care of the accounting and the licensing and so on. So as I explained to Mr. Mike Ossorio, I believe it is, and I explained to him I think what happened was that when the card or whatever comes in the mail for the licensing and that came through, my wife probably looked at the board and said oh, we have our license, because it does say occupational license and so on, and Page 19 December 19, 2007 disregarded it. We've never disregarded any of them. It's always been paid and always taken care of. I told Mr. Ossorio about that and he says, well, it doesn't matter what the case is, maybe your wife should go ahead and pay the fine. I didn't appreciate that comment to begin with on that scenario. But that's why I'm here. It's a situation where I was in the hospital for most of the time and probably at that time. I've always paid the licensing, and I'm not about to lose a license for a $72.00 fee. And I explained that to him. And he says, well, there's nothing I can do. You'll just have to pay it or come to the hearing and stuff and let them hear your situation. And he says, don't wish on it, because we never usually vote in that favor of it, doesn't matter what the scenario is. And I do have proof and stuff. In fact, my case is still being handled by Morgan and Morgan. Like I said, it's a situation where -- and then I noticed -- The other thing was I noticed that the license was changed to business tax. I questioned Mr. Ossorio on that and asked why did they change it? He said, well, that's something that's been in the works for some time to change it. It was very confusing to a lot of us contractors and a lot of them out there. All these years when clients would ask me for copies of my license, I've been giving them the occupational license, because that's what it says on the top, it says occupational license. And that's what we've been going by, not just a little business card that shows anything, because it shows your employees and everything else. That was what I was under. And I apologize for that, but that's -- and I'm making that correction now so that my new customers know that. So that's basically where I am now. I'm just asking that this council here would go ahead and just waive that fee and this is a Page 20 December 19, 2007 warning or whatever that I can go on. I run a good Christian business and I intend on having everything all up aboveboard. And I'm glad this was brought to my attention in this scenario, because I believe at the end of this year I would have actually have lost my license completely. And I was even showed in the office there that there's a stack about three inches thick of cards that either they can't get ahold of people or people have not responded. And I think, as I made the suggestion to Mr. Ossorio, is to maybe put a little ad in the paper, a little square box paper and notifying them of the change in the license on the top of the license, and just making a disclaimer telling them what the license actually is, it's separate from the other one. And he said, well, you should know that. But dumbfounded, my wife didn't know that. And this may solve a lot of other problems with other people having that same problem. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm sorry you had your problems. I don't know of anyone else who's had that serious a problem. But when you got your license, did you have to take a business and law test? MR. HAAS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And that's all explained in there. MR. JOSLIN: On your license also, isn't there an expiration date on your license? MR. HAAS: Yes, there is. And that's what-- MR. JOSLIN: That's what you go by, right? MR. HAAS: It was paid every year except for this year. And that's why I said I believe what happened was -- and it's my wife's fault or my fault or so on because of it. But being in the hospital I didn't know that this was happening at that time. I thought it was all taken care of because on the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long's it been? MR. HAAS: It happened I guess sometime in 2006. And I went and when we got the occupational license we renewed it and so on. Page 21 December 19,2007 Never had any notice or anything else on it that there was the other-- or notice of saying that, you know, your license is going to be revoked or taken away or whatever since then. So I didn't know anything about it because I believed my wife had taken care of it at that time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: See, the system really did work, because we caught you before your license was terminated. And you obviously read your mail. But we have a lot of people that don't even read mail. We have people that don't open mail. But the system did work, because it caught you before you had to go retest. And those mandates come down by state law. So there's not a whole lot you can do about it. But in your case, when you think the system didn't work, it did work. You just had to pay a $72.00 extra fee to keep from having to take that test again. I would be grateful. MR. HAAS: I understand that. I'm just grateful basically that maybe I had the first complaint that it came up. Because I would not have gotten anything from this system here notified about it, other than I didn't have a license anymore. MS. KELLER: Other than the expiration on your license -- MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. MS. KELLER: -- which tells you -- which we all have expirations on our passports. I have a financial business and I know when my occupational license expires for that. I mean, it's just part of doing business. MR. BLUM: And that is your livelihood and it's something that no matter what. I mean, this is just a no-brainer, my friend. MR. JOSLIN: I respect your comments and your thoughts, but I don't think that you're going to persuade myself to delete the citation that you got. You'll have to pay the fine. MR. BLUM: Can I ask the board here, I see a citation that's $300. What's that all about? In that the gentleman's paperwork. Under options, I choose to pay 300. What is that all about? Page 22 December 19,2007 MR. BOYD: That's what he's contesting. MR. JOSLIN: That's what he's contesting. MR. BLUM: I though it was 72. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What happened to 72 -- MR. JOSLIN: No, 72 is to redo the license, because you didn't pay the fee. MR. HAAS: The citation was given to me after the complaint was made after we went and got it all done. In the office when I sat there then he said, oh, I have to give you a fine for that now, instead of just notifying me to get the license set up right away to cover the situation and all. They wrote me out the citation right then and there in the office and so on. MR. BLUM: So you're liable for the 72 plus the 300? MR. HAAS: I already had paid the 72. My license is all -- MR. BLUM: So 300 is pending? MR. HAAS: The 300 is what I was asking to be waived on because of the fact that I didn't know. MS. KELLER: I didn't get that either. MR. BLUM: Okay, got it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do we have to give one in a situation like this, Michael? MR. OSSORIO: You can find him in violation and make the citation zero, as far as I'm concerned, Mr. Neale, or you can uphold the citation and make a zero amount. It's up to the board's discretion. I appreciate Mr. Haas's statements referencing, but our office is probably -- we try to be consistent in how we conduct our business. And he probably should appreciate that anyone that didn't renew their license or have their license canceled gets the citation. So we try to be consistent. And I have made statements in the past that when they ask my personal opinion referencing the board and how the board feels, I let them know that the board really hasn't waived any fees. But I Page 23 December 19,2007 encourage every applicant or every citation person that wants to go in front of the licensing board, and I encourage that. MR. NEALE: I would like to make one point, though. The statute provides that the board, if they find the citation valid and the person in violation, that the board may order the violator to pay a civil penalty of not less than the amount set forth on the citation and not more than $1,000. So the minimum amount, if you find the citation to be valid, that he can pay is $300. MR. BLUM: The citation is valid, there's no question. So I'm going to make a motion in the -- for brevity. I feel that we have to deny the application's petition. MS. KELLER: Second, Keller. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. I'm not sure the wording of the motion, though. Denying the citation? MR. NEALE: Denying the appeal. MR. BLUM: Well, I'm denying the appeal I guess is what you-- MR. JOSLIN: Denying the appeal, okay. I'll second that, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going to vote against it, only because I think the 300 is excessive. MR. BLUM: Well, you don't have a choice, though. That's what the statute calls for. I would agree with you -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I can vote against it. MR. NEALE: You can vote against it, but -- MR. BLUM: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can vote, yeah. MR. BLUM: Ifwe could lower the amount, I'd be in favor of doing that for -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We can't lower the amount, we have to do away with it, right? MR. JOSLIN: I just think that being that this is a televised Page 24 December 19, 2007 meeting, if we start allowing people to appeal these citations when they're given, and they are valid citations, we're going to end up with more people coming in here when Mike Ossorio and his crew go out and give these citations. So -- MR. BLUM: We've-- MS. KELLER: They-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One at a time. MS. KELLER: -- check their expiration dates on the calendar. MR. BLUM: The citation is valid, there's no question. MR. JOSLIN: There's no question. MR. BLUM: So unfortunately I think our hands are tied here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, call for the vote. MR. BOYD: Did you not do the citation because of a customer complaint? MR. HAAS: The citation was given to me after the customer complaint and the complaint was brought, and then they said there was no justification on their end with the customer's complaint, and they have no bearings whatsoever. But when they checked the licensing on it, that's when it came up. Otherwise, like I said, it was also sort of a blessing in disguise there the fact that this came up, because I could be out of business real soon without it. And it was just very confusing, because I said, wait a minute, I have my license. And I went back to the house and then I noticed that. What was the reason why they changed it from occupational license to business tax on the top? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, there was a lot of confusion everywhere. And it wasn't so much contractors, just to be honest with you, it was confusion with the general public. They thought that meant license. And people would show them that and that would satisfy their inquiry. So that was the main reason. MR. HAAS: This is what I was saying, that my wife when I was Page 25 December 19,2007 in the hospital -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know. MR. HAAS: -- and so on took it as that. And that's what I'm saying, the situation I had that's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But that's all repeating. We've said that before. MR. HAAS: I understand. MR. GUITE': When did your license expire? MR. HAAS: I believe in 2006. But I didn't -- in 2006 would have been the last license. Just this last license that goes into 2007. And I was in the accident in 2005. And that's why most of2006 and part of 2007 I've been pretty much in and out of these hospitals. And that's why when they looked at it, my wife looked at it and probably disregarded the thing, oh, no -- MR. BLUM: We've heard all this. MR. HAAS: -- the license is here because it says occupational license on the wall. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I've got a motion-- MR. BLUM: This is -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: --I've got -- whoa, control. I've got a motion, I've got a second. I'm going to call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Three. Page 26 December 19, 2007 Okay, sorry. The citation sticks. So you'll have to get that paid. Chalk it up to a business experience. I wish you well. MR. HAAS: Thank you anyway. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you get the three that were opposed? THE COURT REPORTER: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Kenneth Carter, are you present? MR. CARTER: Yes, I am. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir, if you would, come over, state your name, I'll have you sworn in. MR. CARTER: Hello, I'm Kenneth Carter with Carter Fence Company. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What are you doing? MR. CARTER: What am I doing? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. CARTER: Splitting the rental fence company off of the main fence company because of tax reasons. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know this man and I know his company. I've known him for a long time. MR. JOSLIN: Well, you're not alone. I've known him -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He's a pleasure -- MR. JOSLIN: -- close to 30 years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- to do business with. MS. KELLER: Me, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you're well liked on this board already. MR. BLUM: Maybe you want to make a motion right now? MR. JOSLIN: I will. MR. BLUM: Make a motion. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion we approve his application to Page 27 December 19,2007 start his rental company, as long as he doesn't make over a million the first year. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell me what you're doing, Ken. Let's make this formal. You're splitting out a new company to do what? MR. CARTER: Well, to give out some shares to employees, as well as to -- for tax reasons, because the rental business is a little different than a fence business as far as how you tax and sales tax and that kind of stuff. So originally the company didn't start out to go anywhere. It got big, and now we start having to collect sales tax. So to comply, that's why we're splitting it off into its own business. Primarily that is the reason. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Michael, you have -- does county have any objections? MR. OSSORIO: No objections. And it actually looks pretty nice. It's a good application. MS. KELLER: I've never seen such a good presentation. And I like my fence, too. MR. CARTER: Well, the gal in the office went over and above. I know she's a little overzealous on the forms there. When I saw it she had a back break trying to get them out the door. MR. BLUM: That's fairly unique. MS. KELLER: She should start a job -- start a business doing this for contractors. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I'll tell you what, his work is in the same category. MR. CARTER: Thanks, Les. MR. JOSLIN: That's because he's not doing it, though. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's probably true. MR. JOSLIN: I still make the motion to approve it. MR. BLUM: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I second it. Page 28 December 19,2007 Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have a nice Christmas. MR. CARTER: Merry Christmas, all. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to bring your attention to Case No. 2007-12 d/b/a Custom Floors Solution. The county is going to withdraw that case, so we won't be hearing that case today . We're going to delete it from the agenda. 2007-12. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You know, that's the first time it's been a two-page agenda, too. Matthew Cook, come on up. I'm just dying one of these times to go, come on down. State your name, please. MR. COOK: Matthew Cook. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, tell us what you're doing. MR. COOK: I wish to qualify second entity. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And why? MR. COOK: And why? Because the previous qualifier is retiring, and I already do subcontract work for them and they needed a Page 29 December 19, 2007 qualifier, so I said if I was able to I'd qualify them. MR. JOSLIN: What type of subcontract work do you do for them? MR. COOK: Pool repairs. MR. JOSLIN: And you have your own license? MR. COOK: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: What kind of license is it. MR. COOK: It's a residential pool contracting. MR. JOSLIN: To build swimming pools or just -- MR. COOK: Yes, Class B. MR. JOSLIN: Class B. MR. COOK: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: You do realize then you will not be able to work on commercial pools? THE COURT REPORTER: Mr. Joslin, could you repeat that question, please? MR. JOSLIN : You have a residential license, correct? MR. COOK: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: You do realize you're not going to be able to work on commercial swimming pools. MR. COOK: Yeah, to fix them, yes. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Joslin, but he could clean the pools, am I correct? MR. JOSLIN: No. He needs to have a maintenance license. MR. COOK: I thought a Class B license covered all the maintenance licenses also. MR. JOSLIN: A Class B contractor's license you can -- yes, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, you can maintain a pool, right, or construct them, if you have the contractor's license. But not a commercial pool. MR. COOK: Yeah, I can't work on commercial equipment. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have the packet in front of Page 30 December 19,2007 you? Grab your packet. Grab your packet. Turn to the fourth page. That letter from Java Rush, LLC, do you see it? MR. COOK: The letter? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Says to whom it may concern, dated October 11 tho It's the fourth page in. Might be the fifth on yours, I don't know. MR. COOK: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Java Rush, LLC Unlimited, Sun West Pool Techs. Used to be qualified through Douglas Short. But the next line, paragraph, due to the retirement of the above mentioned qualifier, is now going to be qualifier. And then we go to -- where's this one, the very next one? I don't have the same one you do. Do you realize that? MS. KELLER: You don't? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now, there's another one -- oh, here it is. Go on in, and you'll see another letter, Java Rush -- I wish these were numbered. It's going to be about number 10 or 11, somewhere in there. Also dated the same date, October the 11 th, 2007. Do you find 't? 1 . MR. COOK: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. The previous qualifier has been paid a fixed salary rate of $500 a month for qualifying our enterprise. Each payment has been made through bill payment the 1 st of every month. And they gave us documentation of it. Do you realize that's a violation of state law? That's called renting your license. MR. COOK: That's not me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON : Well, I just want to make sure. I'm glad the other guy retired. MR. COOK: That's why they asked me to-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I want to know how you're going to get paid. Page 31 December 19, 2007 MR. COOK: That's why I was going to qualify them, because they were going to I believe pay me to work under my license and then I could supervise the jobs that they did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, are they going to pay you extra? MR. BLUM: He said I believe. Is that the terms of your deal, that you will actually be on-site, you will be supervising -- MR. COOK: Yes. MR. BLUM: -- you will be -- you'll be there in person? MR. COOK: Yes. I was on a job they did -- you know, I assist the other repair guy that they have with the repairs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. But do you realize that that's in violation of state law? MR. COOK: Just to pay him and not have him there? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: For renting your license-- MR. COOK: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- selling your -- and it's grounds for you to lose your license on the spot. So don't ever do that. MR. COOK: No, I know -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can't believe they put that in writing. It's kind of like the inspectors, investigators have kind of seen it, kind of gives them a heads up, they start looking for things like that, okay? MR. COOK: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that was in a packet. MR. BARTOE: I have a question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Bartoe? MR. BARTOE: Maggie put a note on my packet, says, Tom, don't know what this company name is supposed to be. And current license is Colonial Pool Repair, LLC. I sort of wonder myself why does a new business need what Page 32 December 19,2007 appears to be three names? It says name of -- first page, name of business to be qualified, Java Rush, LLC, d/b/a Pool Service, Unlimited/Sun West Pool Techs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can you answer that? MR. COOK: Sun West Pool Techs was bought by Pool Service Unlimited. That was Doug Short's company. Now that he's retiring, I believe they're retiring the name Sun West Pool Techs and they're going to go by Pool Service Unlimited solely. MR. JOSLIN: Something just doesn't make sense here. Doesn't sound right. I don't know why, it doesn't sound right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can you kind of help us out, see through the smoke? MR. NEALE: I can understand what they're -- what I believe he's saying is that the one company had purchased the other and is going to be retiring the name of that company that it acquired. But it's going to trade on that goodwill for a period of time I guess and then eventually let the customers know. MR. JOSLIN: I just have a feeling -- I don't know why, but I have this feeling that because of this letter that Java Rush wrote, basically stating that they pay a fixed salary of $500 for qualifying his business, I have a feeling that this is going to be the same interim. MR. COOK: I can assure you that's -- MR. BLUM: Obviously Java Rush doesn't have any clue that that's not the thing to do. MR. JOSLIN: Obviously. MR. NEALE: Well, Java Rush I think is just the corporate name that they incorporated under. I mean, I have a number of clients that they've incorporated under, you know, Joe's Company, and then they d/b/a as whatever. So the d/b/a is really the important thing of what they're Page 33 December 19,2007 operating under. And Pool Service Unlimited I guess is the name that you bill under -- they bill under and so forth, right? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, if you go to the Florida Department Division of Corporation sheet in here, you have fictitious names of Pool Service Unlimited and Sun West Pool Techs. And the owner of those fictitious names is Java Rush, LLC. MR. NEALE: Right. MR. JOSLIN: Java Rush is the corporate and the two-- MR. NEALE: Java Rush is the corporate and the corporation owns those d/b/a's, owns those fictitious names. MR. JOSLIN: In the letter, though, it states that Java Rush, the letterhead states that they were the ones paying the $500 fixed rate, whatever, for qualifying that business. MR. NEALE: They may still do their banking under Java Rush. I mean, that certainly could be -- you know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, looks all right. Anybody else have -- you got anything else? MR. BLUM: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll make a motion to approve. I feel like I'm on an island. MR. JOSLIN: By yourself. MR. BLUM: I second it only because I guess we kind of sort of have to. Because we don't know what this gentleman's going to do, and past performance really shouldn't cloud our judgment of this application. But there certainly are misgivings, yes. So I'll second your motion, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, and that's my whole thing-- MR. BLUM: Reluctantly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- this gentleman here has no complaints, he's qualifying a second entity. County has no problem with it. If anything goes wrong, you're the one that loses your license. Page 34 December 19,2007 MR. COOK: That's why I work on the jobs, to make sure everything is done right, you know, and not to be in violation of renting my license out. That's why I sit on -- you know, I'm on the jobs making sure everything is done, you know, and checking on them periodically. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you know if you ever qualify a company and they start pulling shady activities, you can pull that qualification real quick by walking into this office, and it's done and that saves your license. MR. COOK: Yes, I'm aware of that. MR. BLUM: Are you going to be salaried? A salary person, you working by the hour, you get a percentage of profits, what? MR. COOK: Salary. MR. BLUM: Salary. MR. COOK: Yes. MR. BLUM: It wouldn't have to be $500, would it? MR. COOK: That's -- we'd have to discuss that with Java Rush. MR. BLUM: I was being facetious. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't think you could live on that anyway. I've got a motion and a second. Any more discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. Page 35 December 19,2007 MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One, two. You're approved, but you've got to wait till tomorrow to get your paperwork done. We wish you well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Julio Serrano. Good morning, sir. If you'd state your name, I'll have you sworn in. MR. SERRANO: Julio Serrano. S-E-R-R-A-N-O. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So your license went inactive and you wanted to reinstate without taking the exams; is that correct? MR. YOV ANOVICH: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Give us a background. You're -- what we're kind of looking for is your experience and why it went inactive. Okay? MR. SERRANO: Can I ask the board a favor? Can I have my wife present? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sure. MRS. SERRANO: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll have to have her sworn in as well. State your name, please, ma'am. MRS. SERRANO: Carmen Serrano. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you wish for her to speak for you? MR. SERRANO: Yes, please. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because of the language? That's fine. Pull the microphone down a little bit. And with you standing there, everything she says is going to be with your approval, unless you make some motion and object; is that okay? Mr. Neale, need I do more? MR. NEALE: No, that's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead. Page 36 December 19,2007 MRS. SERRANO: Yes, back in 2003 we sold our business, which was Gulf Breeze Pool Service. At that time I had called the county to put the license in dormant to drop off the name Gulf Breeze Pools because we were no longer in service. Somehow it was a misunderstanding. I had thought that the DBPR was the actual license holder, not knowing that it's Collier County. So the license went null. And we're requesting right now, because we would like to start up a business again. My husband was working for Centex Homes and was laid off, and we would like to continue doing the pool service and to see if it could be activated. I realize that we didn't pay for those two or three years. Ifthere's fees and penalties, we would be more than happy to pay. MR. JOSLIN: Have you taken any continuing education since? MR. SERRANO: Yes, I have. MR. JOSLIN: Just for the record, I know this gentleman personally. In fact, I've done work on his pool years ago and some people that he recommended to me, so he is an upstanding person as far as his business goes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What is the continuing education requirement for pools? MR. JOSLIN: Fourteen hours per year. Every-- MR. SERRANO: Fourteen hours of -- sorry. It's 14 hours of continuing education. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you've done that every two years? MR. SERRANO: Yes, sir, I have. MR. BLUM: When did this go in inactive and when did you find out? MR. JOSLIN: I only have one other question and this is another question that is kind of off the wall, but you stated that you worked for Centex Homes doing their pool -- Page 37 December 19,2007 MR. SERRANO: Oh, sorry. I was the Centex Pool and Spa warranty manager. MR. JOSLIN: Pool and spa warranty manager. MR. SERRANO: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: So you in a sense were working through Centex Homes but you were still doing swimming pools? MR. SERRANO: What I was doing was making sure that the homeowners that requested, you know, warranty issues in the pools. So I took those requests, sent it to the designated subs to repair the problems. MR. JOSLIN: I got you, okay. So you weren't actually physically doing the work yourself, you were just handling the motions getting it done. MR. SERRANO: Yes, correct. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What was your question again? I'm sorry . MR. BLUM: When did your license actually go inactive? What was the date? MRS. SERRANO: 2005. MR. BLUM: '05. So you renewed it faithfully from-- MRS. SERRANO: From '93, since we started our business. MR. BLUM: To '05. MRS. SERRANO: Right. MR. BLUM: Somehow you forgot about it in '05? MRS. SERRANO: Again, I had called to have the license dormant, but somehow I misunderstood -- MR. BLUM: Oh, you made it dormant in '05. MRS. SERRANO: Yes, sir. MR. BLUM: Then you found out just recently that -- MRS. SERRANO: Just recently. MR. BLUM: -- it's been inactive for -- and you haven't paid it Page 38 December 19, 2007 for two years then? MRS. SERRANO: Right. We had continued to pay the DBPR, as well. He continued with his education, so we thought everything was current. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Blum, to remain dormant you still have to pay the fee for the license every year. MR. BLUM: I just wanted to know it was two years, not one year. Yeah, thank you. MR. JOSLIN: It's a smaller amount I think, as far as dollars and cents goes, but you still have to pay it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Does the county have a comment? MR. OSSORIO: For the record, Mike Ossorio, Collier County Contracting Licensing. Due to the fact that he has continued his education, we have proof of that in your packet, we recommend that you waive his testing and he can apply for a license. His credit looks good. MR. BLUM: That's -- I was feeling that way anyway. Thanks, Michael. I would -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that a motion? MR. BLUM: -- make a motion then to approve. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. Page 39 December 19,2007 MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Merry Christmas. MRS. SERRANO: Thank you, same to you. MR. SERRANO: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Robert Steele? MR. STEELE: Here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Again, I'll have you state your name and have you sworn in. MR. STEELE: Robert Steele. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're probably going boy, I hope mine goes that easy. Tell us. MR. STEELE: Okay. I was licensed I believe here for about five years in Collier County as an aluminum contractor. I believe it was from '98 to 2003. At that time, about a year previous I bought out a business partner that kind of run me into the ground. I took out a second mortgage, all that, trying to save the company. But had an identity theft. Just destroyed me and put the company out of business. I paid all the -- took care of all my customers, finished the jobs or returned deposits, paid all my workers, but ended up filing Chapter Seven on the company because of an identity theft. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When was that? MR. STEELE: When was that? December, 2003 is when it was finalized. I basically, being totally broke personally and business-wise at that point I kept my Lee County license going but put -- I filed the papers to go inactive in Collier but apparently didn't have some paperwork right or something and it didn't go through. This year I decided -- I just bought a business opportunity called Page 40 December 19, 2007 Scenic Screens where I bought the territory of Collier, so I tried to reactivate the license, and that's when I found out that I was not inactive like I thought and that the time frame had worn out and I would need to take the test again. I was hoping to avoid that. I have been state registered all this time and have been taking the continuing education every two years, and never had a complaint on my license in Collier County. Always done well, and I still think I'd be an asset. I just -- you know, ifthere's fines, I understand that. But I don't believe it serves anybody's purpose for me to take that beginning test agam. MR. BLUM: When was the last time you were tested? MR. STEELE: Tested for-- MR. BLUM: The test that you don't want to take, when's the last time you took it? MR. STEELE: It was probably 1997 when I first got licensed. MS. KELLER: 11/97. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: County? MS. KELLER: 82 and 84 were his scores. MR. OSSORIO: You're asking county's recommendation? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, just seeing if there's anything more. Any complaints, any problems? MR. OSSORIO: No, we haven't had any complaints. I don't -- he stated the fact that he did his continuing education, we just don't have that in the packet. I recommend the licensing board -- we should recommend that we waive his trades exam. But I think he should take the business procedure test since he did have problems financially. MR. BLUM: I feel the same way. MR. OSSORIO: But that's up to the board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, and you're a smart guy. That's an easy test. Page 41 December 19,2007 MR. STEELE: That was due to an identity theft. I mean, they -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I understand. MR. STEELE: -- my account was just cleaned out by somebody. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you have to understand also, a lot of things that we have to do on this board is because of other people that will follow you. You follow me? The problem we've got here, this is -- we're talking four years. MR. STEELE: I thought I was inactive. I thought I -- I mean, I did turn the inactive papers in, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, a lot of people mess that up because they don't realize they have to keep paying to stay inactive. If you just drop off the face of the earth, it's over with, it's done for. MR. OSSORIO: We sent him notice the end of'04. Obviously you can see in your packet, he did stop by the office for his letter January '05. January '04 he doesn't want to qualify the company anymore. So we did send him a five-by-seven card at the end of that September, so -- MR. STEELE: That may have been true. It was a pretty hectic time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, the bankruptcy we can all appreciate. That could happen to any of us. Anyone that's been in business for any period of time knows how fragile it is. Especially in this economy. So I don't think that will hold you up, business and law, because we use Experian, but we also use Gainesville Testing, and they're doing testing every two weeks, if not every week. MR. OSSORIO: Every day. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Every day? Oh, wow. And you're smart enough to whip that out real quick. MR. BLUM: I'll make a motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go for it. MR. BLUM: I'll make a motion that -- Mr. Steele, is it? Page 42 December 19,2007 MR. STEELE: Steele? MR. BLUM: -- Steele take the business law exam and we'll waive any other requirements to reinstate his license. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: See, we didn't make you take the trade test, so that will save you studying and books. MR. STEELE: That will give me the aluminum structural license by taking the business law then? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, what you had before. MR. JOSLIN: What you had before. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What you had before. MR. OSSORIO: He would have an aluminum with concrete. MR. BLUM: He did say he's been active in business and working, right? He's still in the trade continuously, yes? MR. STEELE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wish you will. Get with -- you could stop while you're here and check with the girls in licensing. They can give you the schedule for Gainesville Testing. You can get that done before Christmas. Page 43 December 19, 2007 All right, wish you well. Antonio Ieradi? If you would, state your name, now that I've got you on the microphone, and I'll have you sworn in. MR. IERADI: Yes, Antonio Claret Ieradi. C-L-A-R-E- T. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you got a problem with your credit report. Tell us about it. MR. IERADI: Well, I had a problem. I had to refinance my house to put in the business. The business almost -- you know, went too slow and I couldn't make the payments. I am arranging with the banks, two banks for short sale of the houses. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm having a little trouble, can you-- you might want to tilt that thing up a little bit. There, get a little closer to it. So you're -- right now you've got your regular loan and -- MR. IERADI: And another loan. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- equity line? MR. IERADI: I was going to open an office there. But when the construction business, you know, stopped, I almost -- so now I'm qualifying Penetra Floor Covering. MR. BLUM: Maybe Michael can cast some -- MR. OSSORIO: Well, under the ordinance it specifies if the contractor licensing supervisor is unable to make a decision on his license, if he has question -- and obviously we have question -- about his credit, it gets forwarded to the licensing board. I have no objection for this gentleman receiving a license. However, I would caution, if it's the licensing board's request that we put him on a three-month probation, he'll bring his credit back in to indeed see if it has improved with his ability to pay his creditors. MR. BLUM: Do you think three months is enough time, Michael, to get a history? Page 44 December 19,2007 MR. OSSORIO: Three months should be sufficient. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where's the house? MR. IERADI: One in Cape Coral and one in Ocala. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two? MR. IERADI: Yes, two houses, yes. I refinanced one in Cape Coral to -- because I was opening an office in Ocala. So I purchased there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, that's the only one that's showing bad reports, isn't it? MR. IERADI: Yes, it is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You guys looking at the same thing I am? MR. HERRIMAN : Yeah, just the mortgage. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The two mortgages. Everything else is clean. MR. BLUM: Those two mortgages are going to affect his ability to -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I know. MR. BLUM: I'd be inclined to follow Mr. Ossorio's recommendation for a 90-day probation and we'll review his credit report and see if the status is improved. MR. JOSLIN: I think I would go one step further and just for the -- I don't know, I think I would do with six months and keep an eye on him. This is something could go in a different direction with floor covenng. MR. BLUM: Well, we know how bad things are getting, and they're not getting any better, so -- MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. BLUM: That's a good idea. Six months? MR. GUITE': I agree. MR. JOSLIN: I would think six months. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Think you could make it? Page 45 December 19, 2007 MR. IERADI: Well, it depends. It's a short sale. You know, the amount of houses in the market today, but-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Short sale is another word for-- MR. IERADI: -- I appreciate anything you give it to me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Short sale is another word for deed in lieu of foreclosure? MR. IERADI: Yes. MR. BLUM: Yeah. MR. IERADI: Yes, it is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which you're going to be responsible for the deficit. MR. IERADI: Absolutely, absolutely. MR. BLUM: Not if the bank accepts that, you know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've had them. MR. BLUM: I have, too. MR. JOSLIN: I doubt if they will. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, the bank isn't going to accept that. And it will stay on your credit report for as long as the bankruptcy will. MR. IERADI: That's correct, sir. MR. BLUM: The new law out there that looks like it's going to go is if the bank goes to the foreclosure sale and does the $100 thing and takes the property back, what a lot of them are doing, that will now absolve you of that obligation to make the difference in the market value and the foreclosure price. That's the latest thing out there and it looks pretty interesting to happen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I didn't know you were from Boston. I never knew that. Only Boston people go lar (phonetic). A new lar. MR. BLUM: Law. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There you go. So what's -- have I got a motion? MR. JOSLIN: Yeah, I'll make the motion to approve. Page 46 December 19,2007 MR. BLUM: For six months? MR. JOSLIN: With the stipulation that we monitor his credit for a six-month period. MR. BLUM: You'll have to make reports to Mr. Ossorio. He's going to stay on top of this. It's going to be kind of another obligation for our overworked staff. MR. OSSORIO: We'll just have to red flag it and then he'll have to come forward. I recommend we do a three-month -- MR. JOSLIN: Maybe every three months, right. MS. KELLER: I think -- I mean, the credit in this instance is definitely the issue. But I think that in being a consumer that I would be very concerned that the money that I'm giving in down payments for work that you would be doing would go where it was supposed to go. So that's just my two cents. MR. IERADI: Well, all my bills are being paid for-- MS. KELLER: Keep them separate and don't -- MR. IERADI: Yeah, that's the -- the only problem I'm having really is the mortgage. MS. KELLER: Yeah. So don't make it more complicated. MR. IERADI: No, absolutely not. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who pays for the credit reports? MR. IERADI: I do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You do, okay. Okay, I've got a motion. I don't have a second. MR. HERRIMAN: I'll second it, Herriman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And it's three months? MR. JOSLIN: Six months. MR. BLUM: No, three, and then an additional three as -- MR. JOSLIN: Right, a total number of six months, but to be monitored by staff every three months. Three-month and a six-month period. End of six months it's over. Two reports. We can't ask him to give a credit report every month is what I'm, Page 47 December 19, 2007 trying to say. So ifhe gives a report to staff-- MS. KELLER: You can get one free one a year from -- MR. JOSLIN: -- at three months from now and give them another one in six months and he's okay, then everything's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You okay with that, Michael? MR. OSSORIO: That's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion and second. Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Give you a chance. Good luck. MR. IERADI: Thank you. Merry Christmas. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Merry Christmas to you. That takes care of all new business -- whoops, no, no, one more. James King, are you here? MR. KING: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, come on up, James. Do we have paperwork on James? MR. BARTOE: It's coming. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: James, while we're getting this stuff, start talking to us. Tell us what's going on. MR. KING: As far as all my paperwork and everything, it's all in Page 48 December 19,2007 line except for my tax lien. And if you'd read that front cover page that the office has prepared for you, you'll probably understand. At least I hope you will. And also, I'd like to just say our business is one of the biggest tree companies in Fort Myers, and we do excellent work. And I really feel that coming to Collier County that we can be a good asset for Collier County. We've also did work for FP&L. I've worked for several other tree companies before I started this one, and we try to strive to be one of the best we can. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You just never worked down in Collier? MR. KING: Yes, we have. MR. JOSLIN: Ah, so there's a story behind that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There's a story behind the story. MR. KING: Oh, we've done -- actually work down here. We do several golf courses down here. It's just that I've never took the time to get the license down here, I guess, so I got wrote up and I said well, I guess it's time to get my license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you got caught. MR. KING: So I'm here. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, Mr. Chairman, Lee County has an occupa -- well, a business tax for tree service. We require the business procedure test and we also require them to take the tree exam, which we just passed in '06. MR. KING: Yeah, I took the tree -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, don't criticize us for that either. MR. KING: Excuse me? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't criticize us for that tree exam. MR. KING: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because you should have seen what they wanted. Page 49 December 19,2007 I shouldn't have said that. MR. KING: That's okay. MR. JOSLIN: The first page of the application of your letter here, it says something about an IRS tax lien. MR. KING: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: Would you care to go into some detail on that. MR. KING: Yes, in 2005 we did a lot of work for one special company and they didn't pay us. Even though I paid all my vendors and all my employees and everything else, they still did not pay us. And we're still in court over that. So we've lost quite a bit of money there. Then at the same time I think it was at the end of2006 -- or 2005 we had an embezzlement inside the company. So our company has really -- in the past two years has really had a hard time. Ifwe had have been paid and ifmy secretary, top secretary, had been paying my bills, the tax lien would have been paid. So now I've got an IRS representative, and we're going through it and we're trying to work it all out. Even though we've had like $300,000 worth of bills and stuff that we've had to really come up with. And it's -- you know, things are slow. So -- and she understands, too. And so we're paying it at the moment, but still it's on there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. They're all showing -- I guess by now you have insurance for employee dishonesty now? MR. KING: My wife. She's in there now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That works as long as she stays your wife. And your tax lien is roughly about 50,000? MR. KING: Yes, sir. Now it is, yes. And like I said, I've been working with my tax lady and we're working it out. MR. BLUM: Has she suspended your interest? MR. KING: No. Page 50 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you need-- MR. KING: That keeps accumulating until we get it done. MR. BLUM: Yeah, that's the new thing. MR. JOSLIN: Maybe with some conversations -- MR. BLUM: Because I've been down this road-- MR. KING: I was hoping she would, but -- MR. BLUM: No, they will not. MR. KING: -- they won't. MR. BLUM: If they said they would, I'd have had something to say. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can't you sell one of these trucks? MR. KING: Can I sell one of my trucks? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It will take care of the tax lien. MR. KING: Well, yes, but we're trying to not do that because they work every day. That's -- you know, that's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you've got idle trucks now. MR. KING: Yes, sir, we do have a lot of equipment. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Everyone has idle trucks now. MR. KING: Oh, no, our trucks don't sit, no. Our trucks work every day. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Count your blessings. MR. KING: Yes, sir. Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: How old is the business? MR. KING: Ten years old, this one is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's exactly what the -- it was proposed to be. I mean, everything is in perfect order except the Federal tax lien. MR. KING: Yes. And if -- you know, like I said, if the one -- if you read the paper, it's hometown America. If they had paid us, it still would have been paid. Because they -- actually, in all reality we're about a million dollars owed. By the time I paid out to all my employees and all my vendors and they owed me almost 300,000, it Page 51 December 19,2007 averages out about a million dollars. And I just -- it's been rough on us. We've been really struggling and we're still doing good, thank God, and we want to come to Collier County. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I move to approve the license with the tax lien. MR. BLUM: I'd kind of like to do something similar that we did with the last one, if you wouldn't mind. I'd like to see an ongoing report from the IRS that he's making payments and that things are going along. And in 90 days I'd like to see some kind of a submittal to Mr. Ossorio's office that things are moving ahead, you are progressing, it's less than 50,000 and so forth. I'd really like to see that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What do you say, Mike? MR. OSSORIO: That's fine with me. MR. KING: It's no -- you know, IRS is no easy fix, but we'll do our best to do that. MR. BLUM: I know all about the IRS -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I'll amend the motion to approve, with the contingency that he supplies documentation on status, whether it be a credit report or it could be documentation from the IRS, save you the credit report, twice at 90 days and then again at 180 days. MR. KING: That's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay? MR. JOSLIN: I'll second that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those -- discussion? MS. KELLER: Is there -- I hate it when we get a packet the day of the meeting, because I read them. And I hate when I get information in front of me and I don't have time to look through everything. But is there anything in here on -- any communication you've had with IRS, is there any -- MR. KING: Yeah, I -- Page 52 December 19, 2007 MS. KELLER: -- proof that you've actually tried? MR. KING: -- told Mr. Ossorio if need to, I could have my representative call him, which would be no problem. Yeah, she said she would do that. Actually, she told me that my tax had nothing to do with me getting a license down here, but apparently it does. But yeah, she said if you needed her to call her, she'd be more than happy to call him and keep him updated. I will, too. MS. KELLER: I'd actually rather see something that's been sent to the IRS and their response to you. MR. KING: Yeah, we can do that. MS. KELLER: Because it's been -- this lien has been on you since what year? MR. KING: 2005, I think, 2006. MS. KELLER: So has communication gone back and forth in the -- MR. KING: Yeah, actually we've tried a lot of things to do to solve that, but we just haven't come up to it yet. Like I was saying, with me having to pay all my vendors and everybody else, I just hadn't had the money to pay it. And that's why -- MS. KELLER: Okay, Ijust want to show -- I want to see evidence of your efforts in trying -- MR. KING: I can do that. MS. KELLER: -- to resolve the situation that's two years old. MR. KING: Do you want me to give that to you guys or Mr. Ossorio? MS. KELLER: Well, that's what I would want to see before I would vote to approve it. MR. KING: Yeah, that's fine. MS. KELLER: So I don't know about anybody else, but that's my opmIOn. MR. JOSLIN: Well, let's see how we monitor it then. Maybe Page 53 December 19, 2007 have a letter from the IRS sent to staff to verify that there is an ongOIng -- MR. BLUM: We can maybe amend the motion pending Mr. Ossorio's review of IRS documentation to support the gentleman's allegations that we would tentatively approve it with the 30 -- MR. KING: Can I have her call him? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hang on. I hate to throw all this on Mike's office. The only thing I'll add to the motion is documentation to the satisfaction of Contractor Licensing Board office that current negotiations and activity is pursuing with the IRS. MR. KING: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that satisfactory, Mr. Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: That's fine. MR. BLUM: Which means if you don't get it, it ends right then and there on the spot. MR. KING: Right. That's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is my second still good? MR. JOSLIN: Yes, your second's still good. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You'll need to do that before they're going to do the license is basically what I said. MR. KING: All right. So -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've got it, but you've got to give the documentation along to Maggie. MR. KING: Okay, that's fine. So I give it to Maggie out front? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Motion and second. Any more discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye.R Page 54 December 19,2007 MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done well. You got a chance. MR. KING: Thank you. So if I can get that done this week, I just give it to Maggie and -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: After today. MR. KING: -- then the license still continues. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Get that documentation or something from the IRS that you've got proceedings going. MR. JOSLIN: I would definitely do it in writing, though, not a phone call. MS. KELLER: Yeah, don't have a lawyer call. MR. KING: Fax machine? MR. JOSLIN: Fax would be accepted, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Even canceled check would be good. That's it for new business. What I'm going to do here is take a 10-minute break. I'm going to lose one member of the board. Mr. Blum has to leave. I'm going to starve you guys if I can, because we can finish this thing if we come back at 12:00. And I'm going to lose another member at 1 :30. Is that agreeable with everybody? Ten minute break, okay. MR. BLUM: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to wish one and all a great holiday season. And I'll see you all -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Merry Christmas to you. MR. JOSLIN: We'll see you next year. (Recess.) (At which time, Ms. Keller and Mr. Blum are not present.) Page 55 December 19, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're ready to go. I'd like to call back into order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board. December 19th, wow, six days until Christmas. Let the record reflect that Sydney Blum and Ann Keller both had to leave. Ann has a sick child and Sydney is sick. Well, Ann's sick, too. Wow, it's a sick room. But anyway, next on the agenda is public hearing, Case No. 2007 -13, Peter Kallie, d/b/a Kaltin Construction, Incorporated. Mr. Kallie, are you here? MR. KALLIE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let me explain to you how this is going to work. And there's no need for you to come up right now. It's a quasi judicial hearing, which means it's kind of like courtroom procedures, but not. We also accept hearsay. But what will happen in the beginning, the county will make an opening statement and then I'll have you make an opening statement. And you'll be over here at this large podium over here. And then the county will present their material and any witnesses they would have. Once they are finished with those witnesses, then you can also cross-examine, ask them questions. Their case will rest. Then you can present your case. And again, they can cross-examine any witnesses you may have. And then once that's done there will be a closing statement by both of you. And then we'll close public hearing. We'll kind of talk about it among ourselves up here and come up with a ruling. That's kind of how it goes. So if you have any questions while we're going along, don't hesitate to ask. Okay? And with that, first thing I need to do is if someone could make a motion to approve the composite and three sheets of paper. Is that all that were submitted separately from the composite? Or maybe they're not with yours, but they are with mine. Page 56 December 19, 2007 MR. JOSLIN: Exhibit A, and looks like Exhibit 2. MR. KALLIE: 1 and 2. MR. JOSLIN: 1 and 2. I'll make a motion that we accept Exhibit A and Exhibit 1 and 2. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Plus the cover letter for Exhibit I? MR. JOSLIN: Plus the cover letter for Exhibit 1, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do I hear a second? MR. BOYD: Second, Boyd. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: County, you're free to go. I need to have you sworn in also. If you would state your name. MR. JACKSON: Ian Jackson, licensing investigator for Collier County . (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, Andy (sic). MR. JACKSON: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or afternoon now. Okay, the floor is yours, sir. MR. JACKSON: This case involves a contract for window replacement for a homeowner, Robert Smid, and a contractor Peter Kallie, who qualifies Kaltin Construction. The county will show evidence of abandonment of the job for work not taking place for a period of 90 days. And the second charge is departing from or disregarding any material respect (sic) or specifications of the construction job without the consent of the owner. Page 57 December 19,2007 Basically there's an issue with the windows. And as I said, no work has taken place for a period of 90 days. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And Collier County requires a permit for window replacement? MR. JACKSON: Collier County does. This job is on Marco Island, which of course also requires a building permit for this work, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: It says in here that the permit has still not been obtained; is that correct? MR. JACKSON: No permit has been applied for. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Kallie, would you like to make an opening statement? If you want. I need for you to go over to this podium and state your name, I'll have you sworn in also. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, come over to this podium and state your name again so I've got it on record on the recording with the microphone. MR. KALLIE: Peter Kallie. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say it again? MR. KALLIE: Peter Kallie. The company is Kaltin Construction, Inc. We had two contracts with Mr. Smid. One is to do hurricane shutters. We pulled the permits for the hurricane shutters. I was under the impression the window permit was pulled at the same time, seeing that it was on Marco Island. We completed the hurricane shutters. They signed off everything is okay, paid. We ordered the windows for Mr. Smid specifically, as per his request. I have proof that I ordered them that way. One of the seven windows arrived wrong. I believe it was Page 58 December 19,2007 somewhere around eight to nine weeks just to get the windows delivered from the factory. Mr. Smid didn't want to go ahead with installing the other -- well, actually we had a time to set up to install the other windows. Mr. Smid came back and said no, wait till we resolve the one window that was wrong. I went backwards and forwards to Naples Lumber, the supplier. Basically it's a rather large window, 144 by 72, a half moon. The supplier originally said that they could build that window. So I said all right, go ahead and order it. And the proof is there that I did order it that way. Anyway, when the window finally arrived, it came in three pieces, not two pieces, which was not what we ordered. The factory turned around and just said we couldn't build it the way you wanted it. They didn't bother telling Naples Lumber or myself that they couldn't build it to our specs. They just sent three pieces. Well, Mr. Smid rejected that. I spent a lot of time with Naples Lumber, the window company, trying to resolve the problem. Exhibit 1 -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't get into those. This is just an opening statement. MR. KALLIE: All right. I spent a lot of time trying to resolve the problem. We finally -- well, Naples Lumber finally said all right, they'll take back the windows. But before they do, they want to be paid. And I thought that was rather weird. So naturally I didn't want to pay them. Mr. Smid wants his money back. So basically what I'm asking is what do I do, pay Naples Lumber or Mr. Smid? Naples Lumber, by the way, has sued me for the windows. They haven't picked up the windows. They're still sitting at Mr. Smid's Page 59 December 19,2007 house. MR. JOSLIN: Is there something in this packet that shows your order form to Naples Lumber that I'm missing or I don't see? MR. KALLIE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we'll get into that later. This is opening statements, okay? Is that about it? MR. KALLIE: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: For right now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All right, Andy (sic), go ahead and present your case. MR. JACKSON: I would first of all like to call Mr. Smid to testify on his behalf as a witness for the county. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Mr. Kallie, if you would give up the podium for a minute. I'll get Mr. Smid up here. I need to have you, if you would, sir, right there. Right there. Yeah, at the same mic right here. Thank you. If you would, state your name. MR. SMID: The name is Robert Smid. I am the homeowner for this case. THE COURT REPORTER: Would you spell your last name, please. MR. SMID: S-M-I-D. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. And welcome. Andy? MR. JACKSON: Mr. Smid, would you mind giving a summary of details on your take on this whole situation, please. MR. SMID: Surely. Signed a contract with Kaltin Construction on 9/7. And the windows that are the subject of this discussion that were first delivered on October 26th. And then I noticed that they were not all there. I called Kaltin Construction at that time. Additional windows came afterwards. And I informed Mr. Kallie again that some Page 60 December 19,2007 of them appeared not to be correct. At that time subsequently he came and said the windows were delivered, that I should pay another -- I paid 50 percent of the contract up front. Suggested that I should pay another 25 percent, because windows were delivered. I refused his request because the windows were not correct. He wanted me to go forward and put the windows in as received. I told him that that was not what I had contracted for. And things became rather stagnant at that point. Then on February 8th, Mr. Kallie came and told me that he was without funds, that he had no money left of the almost $10,000 that I gave him, could not pay for the windows. But he was selling a home at the end of February and that he would have money at that point to go forward. There was -- to fix the one window it was over $3,000 to have a different window contractor other than PGT make that window. On February 28th, I called and did not receive any response from Mr. Kallie. Between February 28th -- I mean between February 28th and October 16th of '07 I called over 25 times and never received a response. During that period Mr. Kallie never came to the job site. I went to Mr. Kallie's home on two occasions, left a note with my name on the first occasion. There was no response. The second time he had moved to some -- somewhere else. I contacted the Better Business Bureau. I phoned him, told him that I was going to do that. Of course there was no answer, I just left it on a voice mail. Better Business Bureau -- well, I first came to Collier County here. Mr. Ian Jackson tried several times, and after about a month's time he called me and he said maybe I should get an attorney because he was not -- Mr. Kallie was not returning his phone calls either. At that point I went to the Better Business Bureau. They sent him my complaint about the windows, the abandonment of the job, Page 61 December 19,2007 and he did not respond to them. They phoned him several times and they did not respond to that. The individual that put up the shutters, the first part of the contract, a Mr. Ian Bonnet (phonetic), did a good job. I called him, asked him ifhe would intercede with his former partner or colleague, and he tried and Mr. Kallie did not respond to him. For 11 months he was never at the job. I feel that Naples Lumber probably would have been more amenable to working something out with the windows, had they been paid. They were never paid. And I think the bottom line is that Mr. Kallie took the money and left the job. That's my synopsis. I have documentation of the phone calls and the issues and the applications to the State of Florida, Collier County and Better Business Bureau, where I wrote up my -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where did you find the Better Business Bureau? MR. SMID: Where did I find them? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. They're not in Collier. MR. SMID: Oh, no, I did some research and ended up -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where did you end up, Tampa? Because most people around here don't respond to Better Business Bureau, because there's no presence for them in Southwest Florida. MR. SMID: Well, I will -- I phoned them on -- first. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not that it really-- MR. SMID: I don't know where it's from. Here's the piece, if you care to -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I look at that? MR. SMID: I also had the Better Business Bureau send me two letters stating that they tried -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wait, wait, wait. Start over. MR. SMID: Excuse me. The Better Business Bureau also sent me two letters stating that they were trying to contact Mr. Kallie and Page 62 December 19,2007 were unsuccessful. I have those also. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, this is Tampa. MR. SMID: That's Tampa? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. And I mean, they have no legal authority or anything else, just a nice little feel good thing for consumers. MR. SMID: Oh, I understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But yeah, there's no presence in Southwest Florida. MR. SMID: But I would assume that a businessman would not want to be on their list of non-responding -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Point well taken. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Smid, for the record, Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing Supervisor. I've got just a couple of questions. So you're telling the board today from February to October you did not hear one thing from Mr. Kallie? MR. SMID: That's correct. MR. OSSORIO: Would it be fair a statement that his phone numbers have been disconnected, the ones that you received from him? MR. SMID: Yes, they -- well, through -- the reason I stopped at October is there was a -- I believe it was a cell phone that he uses in business, and I was getting a recorded message on that. After that period of time, I did not have a phone number for Mr. Kallie that was valid. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Smid, one last question. Did Mr. Kallie offer you to change the design of the windows? Is that what was his intention? MR. SMID: Well, yes, he wanted me to put in the -- suggested I put in the three-piece window. MR. OSSORIO: Did you order that? Page 63 December 19, 2007 MR. SMID: No, I did not. MR. OSSORIO: Thank you. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, Robert Zachary, County Attorney's Office. I have one question. Was there -- in the complaint it says that several windows were wrong windows. Was it just the one window? MR. SMID: Well-- MR. ZACHARY: It was a three-piece instead of a two-piece? MR. SMID: There were -- initially it was two windows and a door. However, Mr. Bonnet, who was -- that worked for Mr. Kallie, I guess his official term was a sales representative, but he did measurements and he's the one that supervised the shutters, said that he would put in -- all of the replacement windows on the second floor would be identical to the windows that I have. When I signed the contract with Mr. Kallie, I did not notice that one of the two -- one of the single piece windows was written as a two-piece, and that nothing was put about the glass width on the French door. So because I did not have that in writing, that I can't hold Mr. Kallie's heels to the fire for that. Although his partner, Mr. Bonnet, will testify, or at least told me he would, that that was the agreement we had. MR. ZACHARY: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm a little confused. You say you did hurricane shutters? MR. SMID: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What are you doing, mixing hurricane shutters and impact glass? MR. SMID: Well, I have a two-story home, and I'm 68 years old and I don't want to crawl up on a ladder to try to put shutters up or Lexan up on a second floor. So on the first floor we used shutters and Lexan, and on the second floor we were putting the impact glass. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. I'm Page 64 December 19, 2007 just trying to figure it out. MR. SMID: It wasn't double coverage. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's what I -- I hope you weren't covering up impact glass, yeah. Anybody else have any questions? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: County have any other-- MR. OSSORIO: Just one question. Ian Jackson, as an investigator, would you say that Mr. Kallie was difficult to initiate and find? MR. JACKSON: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: Can you elaborate to the board how difficult it was. MR. JACKSON: It took several days to find Mr. Kallie. I left many messages. Several days to find him. I spent one whole day putting my business cards on every address I could find for him, which finally got him to call us where we initially met where he was first served the notice of hearing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go through those dates again. When did you start looking for him? MR. JACKSON: October 19th. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Of this year. MR. JACKSON: Of this year is when I received the case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. SMID: Well, I -- MR. JOSLIN: I have one comment to that real quick, just since you're on the time line here. October 19th is when you started looking for Mr. Kallie? MR. JACKSON: Yes. That's when I received this particular complaint from Mr. Smid. MR. SMID: Well, just -- may I -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One at a time. Go ahead. Page 65 December 19, 2007 MR. SMID: My original complaint to Mr. Jackson I sent on March 16th of'07. And he followed that through for a period of time. And after approximately a two-month period he called me and said that, as I testified before, that he was -- Mr. Kallie was non-responsive and that there wasn't much more that he thought he could do and suggested I seek an attorney. I then went to the Better Business Bureau, the State of Florida -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's repetition. What is it, October or March? MR. JACKSON: I received this case, which brings us here today, in October. MR. JOSLIN: Of'06. MR. JACKSON: Of'07. I did deal briefly with Mr. Smid and Mr. Kallie regarding this earlier this year in February. And I'll admit, I mistakenly closed the case. It was then reopened. More time had gone by. And it was more clear that the abandonment had taken place. I received this in early October. I was mistaken on the date of 10/19. That's when I initially met with Mr. Kallie, after approximately 10 days of trying to locate him, leaving messages, going to addresses, leaving my business cards at these addresses. MR. JOSLIN: My question really wasn't about the 19th, it was because of the year, actually '06 or '07. That's what threw me for a loop. MR. JACKSON: The contract was signed between the two parties September of '06. MR. JOSLIN: Right. Gotcha. MR. OSSORIO: It appears that Mr. Smid came in or communicated with Ian Jackson sometime in February. Which you'll hear testimony that they were communicating in February. And I believe Ian Jackson assumed that since both parties were communicating, his assumption was that the contractor was going to mitigate this and return the deposit. Page 66 December 19,2007 Since then I guess things went downhill. And then Ian Jackson got reinvolved back in October of this year. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so you thought you had a settlement last winter. MR. JACKSON: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That fell apart. MR. JACKSON: Ten months ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that fell apart. MR. JACKSON: Correct. MR. BOYD: Was there in fact a permit pulled for the shutters? MR. JACKSON: Yes. MR. SMID: For the shutters, yes. MR. JACKSON: Yes. MR. SMID: On 12/22 of'06, these windows that were placed in my driveway, the City of Marco came and put a stop work order on it, because no permit was pulled for putting in the windows. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you ever sign a contract? MR. SMID: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This one that's in the packet? Even though we don't have your -- MR. SMID: Yes, I believe so. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You know, it's amazing -- I hate to say this, but it's amazing, of all the cases that come to us, usually they're because of a lack of a contract or a terrible contract. I'm really surprised you signed this. MR. SMID: This is not a very good contract. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. That should have been the first flag. MR. SMID: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Of course that's water under the bridge. MR. SMID: I think part of my carelessness was the fact that the Page 67 December 19,2007 first part went so well with the shutters that I had confidence in -- they handled things in a very professional manner, Mr. Ian Bonnet, and I was not on my guard when I signed that. MR. JOSLIN: Just to clarify your thoughts on this, this case or this whole -- I guess this case stems from the non-ability to install one basic window in the dimensions that you thought you contracted for, or contracted for? MR. SMID: Yes. There -- as I said, there were two other items, but they were not in writing. MR. JOSLIN: Right. So of the rest of the windows that were there, were the rest of the windows that were delivered by apparently Naples Lumber, were they correct? MR. SMID: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: Were they installed? MR. SMID: No. MR. GUITE': Did he offer to install those, the ones that weren't correct, while the one that was getting -- MR. SMID: He wanted to install them all. Even the one that was not correct. The issue was that to fix the one that was not correct, it was over $3,000. And he wanted -- if! wanted it changed then he wanted me to pay for it. But he was not going to pay for it. Mr. Kallie would not pay for it. MR. JOSLIN: So you're talking about a $3,000 bill that would have been additional to the contract that you already agreed to pay for? MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: The bid that he gave you. MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: So he wanted another $3,000 on top of that to pay for the window that you really wanted or thought you were going to get in the beginning. Page 68 December 19,2007 MR. SMID: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: I gotcha, okay. MR. SMID: It's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And to this date the second floor windows have not been replaced with impact glass? MR. SMID: That is correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or hurricane shutters. MR. SMID: The price of it was $3,185. MR. JOSLIN: Would you just -- I guess this is the proposal that I guess Kaltin gave you as a bid to install these windows. Did he give you a list of -- on 9/7 of '06 an impact glass layout and how much -- and then the contract total cost amount. Which of these windows in here describes the one that you had any problem with? MR. SMID: Let me get to the contract. MR. JOSLIN: Shows six sets of items. I'm not sure how many pieces it is, but -- MR. SMID: Yes, it's a half circle above the living room slider. MR. JOSLIN: Okay, that is the one that is in question that is in error. MR. SMID: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. MR. SMID: Now, all I had was a piece of paper. I did not have drawings of what was being done. It was just the one sheet of paper that I signed. MR. JOSLIN: But in your conversation, this was clear that this was to be a one-piece window. MR. SMID: To be a two-piece. They sent it in a three-piece. MR. JOSLIN: I'm sorry, two-piece window. MR. SMID: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: And they sent a three-piece. MR. SMID: Yes. Page 69 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, at this point, Mr. Kallie, you can ask Mr. Smid questions now or you can wait and call him when you present your case. MR. KALLIE: I'd like to ask some questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, come over to this podium over here. You've already been sworn in, so that still applies. MR. KALLIE: Six out of the seven windows were correct. To try and reach a solution, Naples Lumber offered Mr. Smid the window that was built incorrectly, ifhe went ahead and accepted it to take it off their bill free of charge, number one. He refused. He didn't want it. Number two, it wasn't me that wanted an extra $3,500. I went back to Naples Lumber and said you guys messed up, you need to fix it. They came back to me and said it's going to cost 5 -- MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, this is supposed to be the-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I'm waiting for your questions. You're not presenting your case. Thank you. MR. KALLIE: My question is: Did we not offer you that window free of charge, the incorrect window, to install it? MR. SMID: Yes, you did at one point. However, with the architecture of the house, it would have looked very bad. And I did not want to -- it was not free of charge. I was not going to get money back. You were going to go for it and you weren't going to charge money for it. And you were going to fix -- told me you would fix the French door glass in it. And so I kind of balanced that out as one for the other, which I found unacceptable. MR. KALLIE: Well, as my memory goes, you were going to accept all. The offer was to accept that three-piece window instead of the two-piece and you would have a reduction in the price. That was offered by Naples Lumber, not by me. MR. SMID: I do not recall getting a reduction in price from either you or Naples Lumber. Page 70 December 19,2007 MR. KALLIE: Well, that was part of the offer. MR. JOSLIN: The reduction in price you're speaking of, would that have been the reduction off of your contract that you contracted with Mr. Smid on? MR. KALLIE: Correct. MR. JOSLIN: So there would be a $3,000 credit on -- against your contract -- MR. KALLIE: No, the -- MR. JOSLIN: -- that he wouldn't have to pay. MR. KALLIE: The original window was a lot less than the new one that Naples Lumber came up with. So he would have roughly $2,000 taken off his bill. MR. JOSLIN: Off of your contracted bill. MR. KALLIE: Right. MR. JOSLIN: Were you aware of that, Mr. Smid? MR. SMID: I was not aware of that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other questions? MR. KALLIE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. County? MR. KALLIE: Oh, one last. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, go ahead. MR. KALLIE: Mr. Smid, you said you came to my house -- MR. SMID: Yes. MR. KALLIE: -- and left informa -- or messages for me? MR. SMID: On two occasions. And only on the first occasion did I leave a note there on the door. MR. KALLIE: Can you tell me what address that was? MR. SMID: Yes, I can. I wrote it down. It's on -- the second -- it's Christopher Court in Naples. And I'll get you the -- I'm looking through my notes right now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Christopher Court may solve it. Do you live on Christopher Court? Page 71 December 19,2007 MR. KALLIE: No, sir. I moved out in March. MR. JOSLIN: Did you live on Christopher Court? MR. KALLIE: Yes, I did. MR. SMID: So the first time, as I mentioned before, I went there I left a card and a note for him to call me. Second time I went there and there was no answer, I spoke to a neighbor and the neighbor said that he had moved out about two months before. MR. KALLIE: All right. So you're telling me that you went there in April or May? MR. SMID: I'm looking in my notes to find out the first time. The second time was more recent. It was obviously after you moved out. MR. KALLIE: I just want to state that I moved out into a house in Lakewood on the 29th of March. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me ask you a question while you're standing there. I mean, I usually don't have people come to my house, so that's why I maintain an address with the county. And according to the permit, your address is on Goodlette Road; is that correct? MR. KALLIE: That was the first address. My mailing address is on all my business letterhead. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that a physical or a post office box? MR. KALLIE: It's a post office box. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I can't ever find those. MR. KALLIE: It's on Fifth A venue. I receive all my mail there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So why -- the county said they were having trouble finding you also. MR. KALLIE: I don't see why, because -- what can I tell you? There's the address, the mailbox. I still maintain that mailbox. It shouldn't have been real hard to get hold of me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. County have any -- you want to Page 72 December 19, 2007 redirect any questions? MR. OSSORIO: I just have one question ofMr. Smid. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Smid? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Smid, could you turn to E-4. Do you have your packet in front of you? E-4. Just a quick question. MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: Who did you contract with? Was it with Kaltin Construction? MR. SMID: Mr. Kallie. MR. OSSORIO: Did you contract with Naples Lumber? MR. SMID: No, I did not. MR. OSSORIO: Okay. No questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, Mr. Smid, unless -- anyone on the board has any more questions of him right now? MR. HERRIMAN: I do. Are the windows still usable after sitting there all this time? MR. SMID: Well, I'm not a contractor, I can't say. However, you know, windows I think operate well when they're in the vertical position. These have been lying flat. It's been over a year -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Were they in your garage? MR. SMID: -- well, over a year. And there's water. I paid to have some of them moved off of the driveway after a period of time. But the paint on the windows looks compromised to some degree because water -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We'll let you answer that -- no, Mr. Kallie -- when you come up. We'll ask that of the contractor as well. MR. JOSLIN: Just one last question, I guess. I have this thought that after he did such a great job on the hurricane shutters and you were perfectly happy with those -- MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: -- then there was a delivery for some glass impact windows that are delivered. And out of the lot of windows apparently Page 73 December 19, 2007 one, two or whatever were incorrect. MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: What prompted you or what led you to not let them install the ones that were good? MR. SMID: I was -- I felt there was a certain amount of resistance from Mr. Kallie with regard to fixing that change. And instead of coming and taking those windows and going off to Naples Lumber to have them fixed, he tried to get me to accept those windows and put them in. And at that, when he was doing that it brought up a caution flag. MR. JOSLIN: Did he make any kind of attempt to you to tell you that he was going to go to Naples Lumber and make the windows that possibly he contracted with Naples Lumber for? What I'm trying to get at, was this Naples Lumber's error in the manufacturing of the windows that were really ordered by Mr. Katlin (sic) in good faith, or was it just a total error? MR. SMID: Mr. Kallie ordered a window as a two-piece and it came as a three. So, you know, the issue I think is between Mr. Kallie and Naples Lumber as far as them not delivering what he had ordered. MR. JOSLIN: Okay, that's all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a couple questions. Has there been any liens placed on your property? MR. SMID: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So there's no liens that are going to be placed on your property. Because they didn't file a notice to the owner, to you or anything else. Let me be the devil's advocate here for a minute. You're a reasonable man, intelligent man. As a contractor, I have to sit here and go, okay, under testimony you just admitted that the windows are probably not usable now. And under testimony you admitted that he ordered the right one and they sent the wrong one. So a rational deduction is your action of stopping him and not letting him continue Page 74 December 19, 2007 caused the other five windows to go bad under -- when he was fully ready to go ahead and put those in. Do you agree with me, or how do you disagree with me? MR. SMID: Well, I would disagree in that the French door that was part of this order and part of the windows, what we could put into my garage, we did put into the garage. There are some of the windows that did not get into the garage, and those are the ones that maybe might come into question as far as the paint on the windows. I don't know, you know -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But that's not -- MR. SMID: I don't want to say that they're not usable. But I'm just saying they're not -- they don't look like a new window any longer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. But you're not answering my question. MR. SMID: Well, I'll try. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Were you being unreasonable? MR. SMID: I don't believe so. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did your action cause the mistake to grow? MR. SMID: I believe Mr. Kallie's action caused the mistake to grow. The fact that for 10 months and I called him 25 to 30 times, he never responded to me, never came to the job site. I think ifhe would have taken action and resolved the issue with Naples Lumber within -- or showed that between he and Naples Lumber, one of them was going to get the issue resolved, there would have been no problem with those windows -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good answer. MR. SMID: -- they could have been installed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good answer. Thank you. I just had to ask the question, okay, get it out there on the table. MR. SMID: That's very fair. Page 75 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: County have anything else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other questions of the board? (No response.) MR. OSSORIO: I've just got one question. Mr. Smid, when you noticed the window wasn't correct, you immediately notified this contractor? MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: And right off the bat your testimony today, you're saying that he wanted to negotiate putting that window in. MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: And you've always stated right from the beginning you wanted the two-piece window, not the three-piece window. MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: So you didn't get what you paid for, but you paid $10,000 and you don't have windows; am I correct? MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: No other questions. MR. JOSLIN: As it stands he doesn't have any windows put in; is that correct? MR. SMID: That's correct. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Smid. If you would, have a seat. Mr. Kallie, if you would come up where Mr. Smid is. And now the floor is yours to present your case, sir. MR. KALLIE: My case is simple. When the windows arrived, six out of the seven were correct. I scheduled to have them installed. Naples Lumber, myself, Mr. Smid went backwards and forwards on this incorrect window for months trying to resolve it through the factory, the manufacturer. Page 76 December 19,2007 We had done a successful job for him on the shutters. Why he didn't go ahead and let us install the other six units whilst we resolved the other one, I don't know. I think he was totally unreasonable. I have not only the one bid from Naples Lumber to have that window corrected, but another company, I asked if they could build it. I did a lot of research to see if I could get it done his way. But my argument is, we had a contract when the windows were delivered, he was to pay the balance of the windows. Number one, one window was incorrect. He could have held back some of the money, let me go ahead and install the others while I resolved the problem of the incorrect window. I gave him options: One, reduced price on the window that he had there. This was the offer from Naples Lumber, not from me. He refused. MR. JOSLIN: Was this offer from Naples Lumber to him directly or given to you and you -- MR. KALLlE: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: -- gave it to him? MR. KALLIE: I was sitting in Naples Lumber's office when we were calling Mr. Smid. I had the lumber rep, the manager who is no longer with Naples Lumber, and myself and we were on speaker phone. MR. JOSLIN: Let me ask you one other question. When you submitted this bid to Naples Lumber for these windows originally on your contract for your proposal when you proposed this bid to him, did Naples Lumber tell you that they could build this window? MR. KALLIE: Yes, they did. I even had photographs that I took ofMr. Smid's house at the time of the proposal. I gave a copy of these to Naples Lumber. And I have from Naples Lumber the pricing based exactly how I ordered it. But when it arrived, it was incorrect. MR. JOSLIN: What was Naples Lumber's thoughts? Page 77 December 19,2007 MR. KALLIE: Naples Lumber said that they were -- well, the factory was wrong. They had ordered it the way that I had ordered it. MR. JOSLIN: It wasn't built that way. MR. KALLIE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So here's what I don't catch. I mean, everyone in this room knows Naples Lumber. Good company, been around forever and ever and ever. Big company. They can take a lot more hits than a $3,000 window. So what's this $3,000 change order for? MR. KALLIE: To try and resolve this problem, Naples Lumber went to a company called Windor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I agree, you don't need to get real specific. I agree it's from Windor, and I agree they want $3,000 more. You're telling me that Naples Lumber sat there and agreed that their manufacturer of who they represent made a mistake, but we'll fix your problem if you give us another $3,000? That doesn't sound like Naples Lumber. MR. KALLIE: That's exactly what they said. They agreed to give it to Mr. Smid at my cost, or their cost. Tom was the manager. It wasn't my idea to charge Mr. Smid another $3,000. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So they're going to give you a credit of 2,000 something for the mistake, $3,000 more. So in other words, a net of 5,000 you get the two-piece window. MR. KALLIE: The window from Windor would have cost $5,532; deduct the original cost of the incorrect window would have left three thousand -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got you. Just what I said. Doesn't sound -- MR. JOSLIN: Something's wrong here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now, let me ask you a question. You've been accused of real bad communication. And that's usually where jobs go bad. What do you have to say about the accusations of Page 78 December 19,2007 all the calls that were placed to you? Forget you moved. We might have been -- he might have been at your house after you moved. We can see that. But you're the general contractor. Why did you just let this thing drop like this? MR. KALLIE: I spent five months, a lot of phone calls, a lot of times trying to resolve this problem with Mr. Smid and with Naples Lumber when Naples Lumber turned around and said pay us in full, we'll go pick up the windows, credit you and then you can pay Mr. Smid. I smelled a rat. I wasn't prepared to do that. As far as telephone calls, a while back I did a preap. meeting for an affordable housing project that I want to get started on here in -- off Davis Boulevard. I was inundated with phone calls from subs, people wanting work, so I canceled that phone and got a new number. I wasn't trying to avoid these gentlemen or this gentleman. I couldn't take 20 phone calls a day. That's the only reason I changed my phone. I had the original phone for a long time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you got $10,000 and you didn't have to pay -- did you have to pay any money down to order the windows? MR. KALLIE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you were carrying that extra money. MR. KALLIE: Correct. MR. JOSLIN: Did you make any kind of attempt to get ahold of Mr. Smid to tell him that you no longer have the number that he's been trying to reach you on? Or did you try to make any contact with him after you moved and after this number changed? MR. KALLlE: Yes. Between myself and Ian Benet, we tried to keep Mr. Smid appraised of what was going on. And after five, six months when I realized I couldn't resolve anything, on the one hand I've got Mr. Smid that had paid me $10,000, on the other hand I've got Page 79 December 19, 2007 Naples Lumber that is suing me for 15,000 being the total cost. Who do I pay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Suing you for how much? MR. KALLIE: The total cost of the windows was 14,000 something. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not by the papers I have. Is that right? MR. KALLIE: Well, Mr. Smid only paid a deposit on the windows. The total cost of the windows was 14,300 and something odd dollars. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Yeah, I wish that had been in the packet. I'd like to see that. Do you have that bill? That changes a whole lot of things to me. That's a pretty good price for those impact windows. Because impact windows you have to do structural changes, too. A little stucco work, a little paint. You were going to do $19,000 worth of -- 19,000 and put in $14,000 worth of windows? MR. KALLIE: Correct. MR. JOSLIN: And finish them and trim them out and paint them, stucco and touch-up all around those windows after they were all installed? MR. KALLlE: Correct. MR. JOSLIN: For four grand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: While you're looking for that, I have one other question. It seems like this thing almost went away in February. I'm going to be real blunt, I want to know what -- this is quasi judicial. What did you all agree to in February that didn't ever come off? MR. KALLIE: Well, I built -- I've built two massive houses here in Naples on -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go back to the mic, if you would. MR. KALLIE: I'm sorry. I've built two massive houses here in Naples. I was finishing up Page 80 December 19, 2007 the second one end of last -- 2006, and I said to Mr. Smid, as soon as that's solved, I'll settle with him and fight with Naples myself. The house appraised for 3.3 million, we sold it for 2.2 million. We had to sell it, basically. So I lost roughly $500,000. So I couldn't keep my word to Mr. Smid. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anything else you want to present? Did you find that bill? MR. KALLIE: Well, just what I'm being sued by Naples Lumber. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but that's going to have some expenses and other things in it. MR. JOSLIN: No doubt. Court costs, attorney fees, sure. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, I have a question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Kallie, what's the current state of your state registered residential contractor license? MR. KALLIE: I haven't renewed. Simply I'm waiting to see whether we're going forward with affordable housing. If we do, it will be a new company and a new name and everything. So I should know this coming -- before the end of the year whether that's a realistic thing. MR. ZACHARY: So it's currently delinquent; is that correct? MR. KALLIE: Yes. MR. ZACHARY: Thank you. MR. HERRIMAN: I have two questions. Is the offer still on the table to deduct $2,000 from the bill and put in that two-piece window -- the three-piece window, rather? MR. KALLIE: Yes. MR. HERRIMAN: And my second question is, would you be willing to order the three-piece -- the two-piece window and pay the extra 3,000 and work that out with Naples Lumber so we can finish the job for him? Page 81 December 19, 2007 MR. KALLIE: If Naples Lumber hadn't sued me for the full amount, I wouldn't have a problem with that. But right now I'm looking at 10 plus 15, so 25,000. And I have a total contract of 19. MR. HERRIMAN: Well, if you completed the job somehow, then you'd have enough money to pay Naples Lumber and they'd drop the lawsuit, wouldn't they? MR. KALLIE: I'm not quite following your math. MR. HERRIMAN : Well, you haven't paid them anything, you have 10 grand in your pocket, there's another 10 grand that's due. Okay, now you've got enough money, if the job is finished, whether he takes the three-piece window or the two-piece window for the contract price, then you've got enough money to pay Naples Lumber, they're going to drop the lawsuit. MR. KALLIE: Well, right now what I've told Mr. Smid is that I'm just going to pay him his money back and fight the lawsuit with Naples Lumber and be done with it. It's been far too messy. I tried my best to get things resolved. I tried to schedule -- or tried to put the good windows in a timely manner while I resolved the other problem. That wasn't good enough. I tried to give discounts. I did everything I possibly could. MR. HERRIMAN: So you'd be willing to give him back his original deposit? MR. KALLIE: Correct. MR. HERRIMAN: How would you like that, Mr. Smid? MR. SMID: That would satisfy my requirements. MR. HERRIMAN: Problem solved. MR. GUITE': When could you do that? MR. KALLIE: I would need to -- my mother passed away last week, so I'm getting an inheritance. She lived in Australia. It's going to take about a month and a half before I get that money. So I would need two months at the most. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have anything else you want Page 82 December 19, 2007 to present? Because I'm ready to close the public hearing, if you don't. MR. KALLIE: No, I don't. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, county, you okay with closing the public hearing? MR. OSSORIO: We're fine, thank you. MR. SMID: May I ask a question, couple of questions? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have to go to the podium, sir. We haven't done anything yet, so don't ask us about that. MR. SMID: I didn't plan to. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. SMID: Did you ever send me anything in writing that Naples Lumber was willing to accept this reduced offer? MR. KALLlE: No. It was -- MR. SMID: Give me a credit for the two-piece window to make it -- MR. KALLIE: It was done on a conference call between myself, Naples Lumber and you. One of many conference calls that we made to you. MR. SMID: I also spoke with Mr. Tom Nolan of Naples Lumber, and I feel that Naples Lumber was trying very hard to resolve this issue. One of the things that he told me, and I'm sure he would back me up on that, was that he felt that if they went off and bought this two-piece window and invested the money on it that he could not do that without having been paid. Because his quote was, he can't send good money after bad. The fact that he wasn't paid anything for the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think we've already heard that. That's redundant, yeah, okay. MR. SMID: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other questions? Go ahead. MR. SMID: Just one other question. When did you change your phone? Page 83 December 19, 2007 MR. KALLIE: I'm guessing six months. MR. SMID: Okay, fine. So the phone calls that I made up through the beginning of October or so, they were still getting your voice mail, your voice recording, on your old phone. So that might be MR. KALLlE: Well, what's your point? MR. SMID: Well, the phone -- I made the 25 or 30 phone calls. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But it's immaterial. Let's don't-- MR. SMID: That's all. MR. JOSLIN: One last question I guess I have. Mr. Kallie, did you ever contact Naples Lumber and try to deal with them directly yourself to try to work out the payment situation towards if the six windows that were delivered and the one that was improper or wrong, some payment could be made to them for those six and then work out the differential between the window that was wrong, in the battle that you're trying to fight now for the whole amount? MR. KALLIE: That -- I was in constant contact with Naples Lumber. I was in their premises twice a week. MR. JOSLIN: What I don't understand is out of all the windows that were delivered, none of them were paid for. MR. KALLIE: What I'm trying to say is, it got to a point where Mr. Smid just said I want them taken away, I'm not dealing with you anymore, so it was pointless even taking that avenue. Naples Lumber wanted me to pay their bill in full so they would go and pick up the windows, and I just refused. I wondered -- MR. JOSLIN: You were basically-- MR. KALLIE: -- why they would do that. MR. JOSLIN: -- told that you couldn't come back on the job to finish any windows. MR. KALLIE: Right. MR. JOSLIN: Is this true, Mr. Smid? MR. SMID: No, sir. I have a notebook here that I recorded all Page 84 December 19, 2007 my phone calls with Mr. Kallie. MR. JOSLIN: That was just a question. That wasn't something to get into an analysis of what happened. I'm just looking for an answer of did he mention this to you or did a conversation like that ever happen. MR. SMID: No, I never told him he could not come on the job. He chose not to come on the job. And I did want to have the window resolved because I felt I was in a very precarious position with the way things were. MR. JOSLIN: I understand. MR. KALLlE: I want to refresh Mr. Smid's memory. I had him scheduled for installation on -- and I don't know the exact date. I had a delay on the previous job, I called him and said we can't start on this date, it will have to be on this date. He said, well, I'm leaving, I'm going out of town, I don't want it done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, Mr. Neale has got something. That's all. Thank you, Mr. Smid. Go ahead, Mr. Neale. MR. NEALE: Yeah, just that both parties do have the opportunity to give closing arguments before the public hearing is closed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any other questions? MR. BOYD: Yes. When did you let your contractor's license lapse? Did you not renew it this last term? MR. KALLIE: No, I haven't. MR. BOYD: So since October you haven't been a licensed contractor. MR. KALLIE: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you registered? MR. KALLIE: Yes. I did the continuing education. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's your license number? Don't Page 85 December 19, 2007 know your license number? Is it an R or a C? MR. KALLIE: It's an R. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Then you haven't been registered as next year. MR. KALLIE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Certified is on the odd years. MR. OSSORIO: No, it's the opposite. MR. NEALE: No, it's the other way. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Huh? MR. OSSORIO: Registered is this year. He has not renewed his state registration. It's called inactive. MR. NEALE: His registration has lapsed. MR. OSSORIO: His state certified is even, so it would be -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's right, certified is even. Okay, you answered the question. Anybody else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm dying to close the public hearing, but I can't. I think we have -- only because I think we have a resolution of this case. Closing arguments, Andy? County recommendation? MR. JACKSON: I just wanted to reiterate the fact as far as the abandonment of the job, it's pretty clear that at a very minimum 90 days has gone by with no work. And as far as the material respect for the plans, the issue of the two and three-piece windows should be between Mr. Kallie and Naples Lumber. Mr. Smid is not in contract with Naples Lumber, he's in contract with Mr. Kallie. That's all for me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What would the county's recommendation -- I can get that from you later, not now. Mr. Kallie, closing argument? MR. KALLIE: My only closing argument is I had the job Page 86 December 19, 2007 scheduled, I wasn't allowed to do it -- I just lost track there -- so I don't feel I abandoned the job. I ordered those windows correctly, I provided proof ofthat. Naples Lumber messed up. I ordered those windows in good faith. I agree, I contracted with Mr. Smid, not Mr. Smid and Naples Lumber. But when you order the stuff correctly and it comes incorrectly, I have no control over that. I did my best to try and resolve a problem, but at each time Mr. Smid refused any offers we made, basically. That's all I've got. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. If you could go ahead and sit down. I need a motion to -- Mr. Neale? MR. SMID: May I have my turn as the final -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, what did you have to say? MR. NEALE: Just was -- with the potential resolution, I thought it might be appropriate for county attorney and county staff to speak about it before you close public hearing and start deliberations. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you need a five-minute recess? MR. NEALE: Ifwe would. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's your time schedule? MR. GUITE': I'm all right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're going to take a five-minute break, let the county and -- talk with the attorneys here, see if we can resolve this. MR. JOSLIN: We haven't closed the hearing yet, so just sit tight a second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're off the record. Five-minute break. (Recess.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, are we ready? Everybody set? I'd like to call back to order the meeting of the Collier County Page 87 December 19, 2007 Contractor Licensing Board, December 19th. Mr. Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, for the record, Mike Ossorio again, Collier County Contractor Licensing. Hopefully this is the last time I speak to you today. Our recommendation is, is that we withdraw one charge, and that charge would be abandonment, 4.1.3, and we find Mr. Kallie guilty of 4.1.5. Clearly we heard testimony today departing from disregarding any material respects the plans. However, we wish to go ahead and put him on probation for three months until at which time he has offered to pay Mr. Smid back. No recommendation to the state. And he must renew his certificate with our office and renew his state registration by the end of January. And no fines and no penalties. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One question. Status of the windows. MR. OSSORIO: Well, the windows are Mr. Kallie's. He can do fit what -- he can clearly pick that up. I'm sure Mr. Smid doesn't want the windows. MR. SMID: When I get my money back, they can have the windows and I will sign anything to that effect. MR. OSSORIO: We'll mitigate that when the time comes. Obviously the windows go back. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I do this with a motion, Mr. Neale, instead of finding of fact? Because we're not going to vote on it, or are we? MR. NEALE: Well, what the board can do, probably the board could probably go forth and hold this vote by motion to hold this case in abeyance, subject to the satisfaction of the conditions set out. And if the case is -- if they are not satisfied in a period of time set out, then the case would come back here for further resolution. I think that could be done. Page 88 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you get all the conditions as you were typing? THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And who would like to ditto that in the form of a motion? MR. JOSLIN: I'll ditto that in the form of a motion. I don't have to say it, though, do I? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Exactly what he said was the motion. MR. JOSLIN: Is the motion. MR. GUITE': I've got one concern. What about Naples Lumber in all of this? If they don't take the windows back, then Mr. Kallie -- but he ordered the right windows. MR. JOSLIN: That's a civil suit that will have to go between him and Naples Lumber. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's kind of my feelings. That's why once Mr. Smid is paid back he said he would release the windows. That becomes the property of Mr. Kallie, who they have a suit with. Because they didn't file notice to owner or whatever and doesn't have lien rights, that's not my problem, that's their problem. MR. JOSLIN: And if Mr. Kallie does have the paperwork that proves that he did order the right windows and Naples Lumber didn't produce, well, that should be a pretty clear-cut case there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I have a motion, I need a second. MR. GUITE': I'll second it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? MR. NEALE: I think what you want to get on the record is an agreement of Mr. Kallie and -- to these conditions so that he will know that he's part of the agreement. Because you -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Kallie, would you come up to the podium. MR. NEALE: -- want to make sure that he's going to do it or Page 89 December 19, 2007 then you probably should go forward with the case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now, do you understand --let me repeat the motion, just so everyone's clear. You're going to pay back Mr. Smid the money you owe him within 90 days. MR. KALLIE: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's agreeable? MR. KALLIE: Agreeable. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you will reinstate your license within 90 days. MR. JOSLIN: Immediately. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Immediately, is that-- MR. KALLIE: End of January. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that it, Mr. Ossorio? And if you do MR. KALLIE: Mike, did you say end of January? MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. Unfortunately the state has a little maybe like a computer glitch and maybe he has to do some refreshing courses. So the end of January is fine to renew his state registration and his county license is fine. MR. JOSLIN: And was there something mentioned about probation? MR. OSSORIO: Well, I recommend we put him on probation until three months. However, we can suspend that and -- until we come back to the board in three months. MR. NEALE: At this point you really can't put him on probation unless you find him -- MR. JOSLIN: Guilty. MR. NEALE: -- in violation. Right now it's a settlement agreement subject to conditions. MR. JOSLIN: Right. I gotcha. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So are you good with both of those? MR. KALLIE: I'm good with both of those. Page 90 December 19,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you understand what will happen if you don't do them? MR. KALLIE: I understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It means this case comes back up, we do the findings of fact and the order of the board and then it becomes the county, correct? What's the difference? The county would be the one to initiate restitution, collect restitution? MR. NEALE: County could go after his for restitution. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, the county would be coming after you. MR. KALLIE: That will be fine. MR. OSSORIO: Well, Mr. Chairman, what the first thing would happen is we would get a finding of fact that we would actually find him guilty of the charge of disregarding the materials of fact. And then we would petition the licensing board in Tallahassee, due to the fact that he's a state registered tier one contractor. And he could still -- Mr. Smid still has the ability to file for the recovery fund. This is why we don't want to wait too long. But we want to make sure Mr. Kallie pays this homeowner back. And with that said -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Smid, are you okay with this? MR. SMID: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: Would you come to the podium, please, and make sure that this is in writing. MR. OSSORIO: The money would have to go through our office, though. Mr. Kallie would -- Ian Jackson would initiate within -- through his outlook have a scheduled meeting with Mr. Kallie. Mr. Kallie would give us the money . We would issue a release, and then we'll report back to the board of the closure of this particular case, and Mr. Smid would issue a release of the windows. And that's how it should go. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Page 91 December 19,2007 MR. SMID: And I'm fine with that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All negotiations will be with the county . The thing that's nice about this, Mr. Smid, we usually don't see homeowners get their money back. We end up doing fines and penalties on a contractor. But the homeowner lost money. So if this works out, you're worlds ahead. MR. SMID: Oh, yes, sir. And fines on a contractor are so -- don't do any good, as far as I'm concerned. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, that depends. You ought to see some of our fines. MR. JOSLIN: I think a lot of this stems from both sides of the party, I think you both were placed in a bad situation at a bad time, Mr. Katlin (sic) for ordering windows; possibly he did it in good faith, he tried to get the right windows and was told that way, but didn't. And then from that point out everything just exploded. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to do one -- I want to be pretty clear of Mr. Kallie, that charge, the first charge of abandonment, if we do have a finding of fact and he is charged with abandonment and he's found guilty of it, State Statute 489 will apply due to the fact he took more than 10 percent. So make no mistake about it, that if Mr. Kallie doesn't come back with this money, my next step will be with the Sheriffs Office for State Statute 489. This is why I did not want to press charges under abandonment, ifhe's going to come into agreement with Mr. Smid. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have any idea what he's talking about? MR. KALLIE: Not really, no. MR. OSSORIO: Well, maybe-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What happens is if you take more than a 10 percent deposit, you have to pull the permit within 60 days and start work within 90 days. And if you don't do both of those, you're Page 92 December 19,2007 automatically guilty of a third-degree felony, which is prosecuted by the state attorney general. MR. KALLIE: I was definitely under the impression that Ian pulled both permits for the hurricane shutters and for the windows. He did on the job before. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But still, the 90 days elapsed. You have to do both of them. So yeah, and the State Attorney's Office will prosecute those charges. So you don't want to go there, okay? Get this done. I'm glad we had two gentlemen that could resolve this. I've got a motion and a second. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's done. MR. KALLIE: Thank you all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wish you well. Both of you have a nice Christmas. MR. SMID: You have one as well. MR. KALLIE: Merry Christmas. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, one last housekeeping. Next month the board is going to meet here at 10:30. January. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's the date? MR. OSSORIO: January 16th. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 16th, okay. MR. OSSORIO: And Mr. Chairman, we do have -- Sue Filson does have a request that the chairman is supposed to sign the minutes.n Page 93 December 19, 2007 So after we close, we have to make sure you sign the minutes so I can turn those over to Sue Filson. She says we have not been doing that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, never. MR. OSSORIO: Well, that's what I tried to explain to her. Also, Mr. Lewis is tendering his resignation. He won't be on the board anymore. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Blum is? MR. OSSORIO: Bill Lewis. I did communicate with him yesterday. He is extremely busy in Georgia. He sends his regards and he will be writing us a certified letter resigning from his post as a commissioner. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, he found work in where? MR. OSSORIO: Somewhere in Georgia. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good. I'm happy for him. So we wish him well. I appreciate his service on the board for many years as well. So if you'll relay those comments. Anybody else? Otherwise, motion to adjourn. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second? MR. GUITE': Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I never dreamed this was possible. Page 94 December 19, 2007 ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 1 :30 p.m. COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, Chairman These minutes approved by the Board on as presented or as corrected , TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INe. BY CHERIE' NOTTINGHAM Page 95