CAC Minutes 03/13/2025 (Draft)
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COLLIER COUNTY
COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE (CAC)
THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 2025 – 1:00 PM
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD CHAMBERS
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER
3299 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, 3RD FLOOR, NAPLES, FL
Present:
Chairman Joe Burke, City of Naples
Linda Penniman, City of Naples
Erik Brecknitz, City of Marco Island
Bob Raymond, Unincorporated Collier
County
Robert (Bob) Roth
Dr. Judith Hushon
Steve Koziar
Absent:
Dave Trecker
Jim Burke, Unincorporated Collier
County
ALSO PRESENT:
Andy Miller, Coastal Zone Management
Colleen Greene, Managing Assistant County Attorney
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of This Board, you will need a record of the
proceedings pertaining thereto and therefore may need to ensure that a verbatim record of
the proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the
appeal is to be based. Neither Collier County nor This Board shall be responsible for
providing the record.
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 1:00 p.m. by the Chairman, Joe Burke.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLLEGIANCE
Led by Chairman, Joe Burke.
III. ROLL CALL
Chairman, Joe Burke, advised that a quorum was met with two members absent: Dave
Trecker and Jim Burke.
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IV. CHANGES AND APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chairman, Joe Burke, asked if there were any changes to the agenda – none. Motion
made by Bob Raymond, seconded by Erik Brecknitz. Motion to approve agenda
approved unanimously.
V. PUBLIC COMMENTS
Chairman, Joe Burke, asked if there were any public comments. Colleen Greene,
Managing Assistant County Attorney, advised that we do have 4 people with public
comments and asked if we have a preference as to order of appearance – advised no. Ms.
Greene started with JoAnn Jany
JoAnn Jany, Naples Gate
Restoration of Dunes & Vegetation at Clam Pass Park
Has slides and photos.
Resident of Naples Cay Community and at last month’s CAC meeting, she made a
request for a planted dune at Clam Pass Park and I was disappointed not to see anything
on the agenda for this CAC meeting about an update regarding my request, so I thought I
would refresh your memories. My neighbors and I attended countless meetings with the
PSBD water committees and these CAC meetings. I thought we had some clarity on who
was responsible for the Clam Pass Park. The NRPA area, which includes the interior
areas of outer clam bay is the responsibility of PBSD. They are responsible for the health
of the estuary and the mangroves. The beachside within Clam Pass Park is the
responsibility of the county. I was excited when they proposed replacing plants within
that area to clear out the currently choking and dying mangrove areas that are needed for
channels to be cleared of sand. At the last PBSD water committee meeting, they said
there may be some cost-sharing of this with the county and then at the last CAC meeting
that I attended, they said the county was not clear if they should pay for any work on the
beachside, and CAC was going to investigate that.
I feel that Clam Pass Park is the little forgotten child of divorced parents. Nobody seems
to want to do anything with that kid this weekend. And I don’t really understand that.
This is a county asset. I don’t know why it is still a mystery as to who pays for what.
But I do know that a large storm right now could be a very costly restoration for the park
assets.
I have a few photos to show the vulnerability of the park assets. You may recall that there
was beach renourishment in Park Shore and Naples Cay and up in the park known as the
Kayak Landing Area on the map there. No other areas of the park are renourished
because of the danger of the sand from any renourishment washing into Clam Pass Inlet
and I understand that. What I am requesting is a beachside dune like what existed prior
to Hurricane Ian, which I think would be more likely to be pushed inward toward the bay
as opposed to being pushed back into the Gulf. The map shows the renourishment area
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highlighted in yellow to the South. All of the remaining beach area to the North of the
Clam Pass Inlet is also at risk. The proposed dune is the blue highlighted line I have on
the map there. This is all part of Clam Pass Park.
I also have a couple of photos. These were taken on Tuesday of this week after a windy
evening. The tide line was all the way up to the vegetation, within the area usually
populated with visitor chairs near the concession area. You can see how it is all wet
there. The tide line goes all the way up to the plants. In contrast, from the second photo
that I took right at the edge of the Kayak Landing area that was renourished, you can see
the benefit of the extra height of beach renourishment in that section of the beach and it is
pretty far from the vegetation line. That is the benefit of beach renourishment. This was
just a windy day and what do you think is going to happen with even a minor storm? At
least a planted dune will help protect remaining vegetation areas, offer some protection
for the beach, to the estuary and its wildlife, and some protection for anything behind a
dune.
I am hoping someone can reach a conclusion on who pays for what in Clam Pass Park
and please make protection of this valuable asset of the county a priority.
Chairman, Joe Burke: Thank you. Any Questions?
Bob Roth: I have a question. JoAnn, from that high tide line elevation, how much
freeboard is there to the top of the existing dune – is it 3 feet? 5 feet? 10 feet?
Dr. Judith Hushon: There’s no dune.
JoAnn Jany: There is no dune there.
Bob Roth: There is something to the right of that image that was keeping the tide pushed
back. (Asked for the other photo.) To the right of that arrowhead, there is still a rise in
elevation and then it goes down on the other side.
JoAnn Jany: It is where the land kind of puddles in there because it is a little bit lower;
so it is from the settling of the water and the sand is all soft.
Bob Roth: So, if the tide was up one foot, it would go over?
JoAnn Jany: Oh yeah, it would go over and be into the plants now. This area of the beach
was never renourished because it is a natural area. They don’t want the sand to go into
the inlet, which we understand. We don’t want sand in the inlet. That is why we are
saying we have no protection. This is park assets – the concession is there. I watched
them replace the ADA ramp over two weeks and they replaced it twice. The ramp ended
up down our trails in the park. So all of those things are at risk – the hotel people
struggle with the chair area and the people get worried because it looks so washed out.
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Bob Roth: So how much higher would the tide have to get to get sand in the inlet in outer
clam bay?
JoAnn Jany: If there is a high tide, a foot more of tide, that whole area at the end of the
beach would have sand. You would end up with a little sand. So, the Gulf water would
get into the outer clam bay.
Bob Roth: Two feet for sure?
JoAnn Jany: Yes, for sure.
Bob Roth: So, we get these 10-foot surges now.
Erik Brecknitz: Point of order, Mr. Chair. What is our policy on fairness of citizens in
terms of time?
Joe Burke, Chairman: It is three minutes for the presentation, but if the committee has
questions, there is really no limit.
Bob Roth: Thank you, I’m done.
Dr. Judith Hushon: We asked you to confirm this on a number of occasions – that the
water has actually run over the beach into outer clam bay when we have storms or good
waves?
JoAnn Jany: Yes, that’s correct.
Dr. Judith Hushon: We didn’t go into this, but the Corps of Engineers was going to do
plantings in that area and raise it. And on the other side, raise the mangroves up and
create a higher storm break in that area.
JoAnn Jany: I don’t know the full extent of the Army Corps’ plans, but there were
plantings that were suppose to be in there; even plantings would help keep the sand in
place. Right now, it’s all pretty much dead.
Joe Burke, Chairman: That thinned out area was going to be widened in that mangrove
plan by the Corps.
Dr. Judith Hushon: Yes, I am wondering if our role might be to take on this as a very
small project in light of what all the Corps were proposing to the county. The Corps is
now on indefinite hold as to whether they are even going to come back with a plan and if
they do come back with a plan, it is eight years or something until it is implemented. Is
this something that the county could take on – this little stretch, I mean, we not talking
about big, this is little; but it would protect a county beach access. This is a public beach
and maybe we need to take this on as part of tourist development tax.
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Linda Penniman: I am in complete agreement. I think it qualifies in every way for the
county relative to TDC taxes and so forth. So I agree – let’s protect this area. It really is
in tough shape. I agree.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Do you need a motion?
Erik Brecknitz: This is under Appearance of Citizens and I don’t know.
Colleen Greene: Right. That’s correct. This is public comment and the Board cannot
take action based on public comment. But you can talk to staff and our director, Andy, to
bring this back as an agenda item.
Joe Burke, Chairman: So, I will break it down into two issues, right. One is the beach
renourishment, dune reconstruction with plantings for that unprotected area. And then
maybe widening and mangroves on the inside.
Erik Brecknitz: Is the park a county park?
Linda Penniman: Yes, it is.
Erik Brecknitz: To me, it’s pretty clear that if you’ve got a county park that needs to be
protected, then the county has a responsibility to do it. I would just point out to those
who haven’t looked at the budgeted statement, it looks like we are over a bit in our beach
renourishment collection. So, we may have the money, right?
Andy Miller: We may.
Joe Burke, Chairman: That’ll be the next question we’ll ask.
Dr. Judith Hushon: Can we ask to go back to staff?
Joe Burke, Chairman: So, the ask is that we’ll ask Andy to go back and put it on the
agenda.
Andy Miller: This is what I’ll suggest that I will try to do. The park is managed by Parks
and Recreation, not Coastal Zone and history shows that Coastal Zone assists Parks and
Recreation by putting rope and posts there every once in a while. But it is funded by
Parks and Recreation. So, what I will do is approach Parks and Recreation through the
County Manager’s office to see if we might create a project. Obviously, I will have to go
through the formal process. I imagine it will have to be permitted; so it is not going to
happen overnight. But I can start the process.
Dr. Judith Hushon: Andy, could this be a joint effort between you and your department
and Parks and Recreation, where one has the beach side and the other has the mangrove
side? Is that going to be a problem?
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Andy Miller: I imagine it is going to be a Parks and Recreation Project.
Dr. Judith Hushon: All the way?
Andy Miller: But Coastal Zone is certainly available to assist wherever we can.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Thank you. Anybody else? T
Colleen Greene: Yes, we do have three additional speakers. The next is Laura Hansen
Reynolds.
Laura Hansen Reynolds, City Resident
Request for protection of plant cuttings by posting signs and roping off the cuttings
preventing visitors to the beach from destroying the plantings.
I applaud the county’s extensive beach dune plantings with the signage asking beach
visitors to stay off the dunes. The signs are placed at the west edge of the planted areas
facing the Gulf. Unfortunately, some of the plantings have already been lost around the
beach and access points because visitors are cutting across the new plants – walking and
sometimes even dragging coolers and chairs over the seedlings as they move from the
parking lot to the open areas of the beach. When visitors walk out onto the beach, there
isn’t anything to mark the pathway to the open beach area, so many folks are cutting the
corners and just walking over the plants, looking for an open stretch of beach to put their
chairs on and the like.
Some sort of roping from sign to sign along the beach and a definition of the walkway
from the parking area to the open beach is needed. The Botanical Garden staff suggests
that the county has the opportunity to best protect the investment in these plantings by
installing a physical barrier around the planted areas. When the dunes were reinforced at
Delnor-Wiggins Pass State Park, posts were installed with roping strung between them to
prevent visitors from walking on the dune. It would be easy to string some sort of roping
or caution tape between the signs that are already placed along the beach. And with just
a few pickets, the walkway out to the beach can be marked so the public knows where to
walk. Knowing how quickly these dune grasses can trap windblown sand and help
rebuild the dunes, there’s a real opportunity to protect the investment in the plants with
some simple protection.
So I am here to ask that you please see that protection for the plants is installed,
particularly establishing a walkway to keep beach visitors from trampling the new plants
at each of the individual beach ends. And I have some photographs that I took yesterday.
This photo is the beach end at 4th Avenue North and if you look closely, you can see the
brand-new plants and you can see footprints and these are all trampled. I don’t think that
there is any ill will from the visitors on the beach. They just don’t know that those are
new plants that have been put in.
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Next photo: This is what I am asking. This is where you can see that they could run
something from sign to sign as you go down the beach.
Next photo: This is at Central Avenue where somebody has installed just some little
pickets and some red plastic tape, enough that people are not walking on the planted area
there. It can be relatively simple if it is just visible.
Next photo: This is 7th Avenue South and you can see that they have little pickets in there
and there is actually string on it that does not show up well in the picture.
Next photo: Shows it coming up from the beach end. This is again somebody putting just
a little picket in. And this is as you walk out from the parking lot onto the beach and
blocks people from walking into the area where the plantings are.
So, knowing that a picture is worth a thousand words, I tried to show you what I am
talking about. Thank you.
Joe Burke, Chairman: So, questions?
Dr. Judith Hushon: None, but I would like to see this come up as an agenda item.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right, so at the last meeting, we reviewed this, right? The sand
barriers, or the berm dune barriers. The issue, I think, is that we need to be compliant
with the FDPE guidelines and the rope is suppose to be 36 inches above the ground from
the catenary, the lowest point on the rope. So, those in the pictures are not in compliance.
Dr. Judith Hushon: That’s because John Q. Public installed it.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right, exactly. So, I think what we discussed at the last meeting
was that these are the requirements. And the county was going to start looking at what
are the priority areas because we have 9-10 miles of beach and we can’t do it all. So, I
think the county is looking at installing FDPE compliant.
Dr. Judith Hushon: I think we could do everything that got planted. I don’t think you
should cut it off. If something got planted with new plants, it could be marked.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right.
Dr. Judith Hushon: The cost of this is minimal.
Andy Miller: What you are looking at on the screen is the county standard for the project
that is ongoing. And so these keep off dune signs should be anywhere we’ve planted
plants. If they are not there, then the contractor has either yet to put them there or has
failed to put them there, which in that case, if he’s failed to put them there and they get
trampled, he’s responsible for putting the plants back if they don’t survive after six
months.
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Dr. Judith Hushon: I don’t think that’s an excuse. I think we should be putting up a rope
as well, a rope barrier. We have done this in the past. This is not new to this county.
This is something we did at Clam Pass years ago. I remember seeing it there. These kind
of ropes, it was just a rope between wooden stakes and it just kept people off the dunes.
It didn’t stop the sea turtles. The issue is people and I think the county needs to step up
and take this next step, which is cheap, and protect our dunes that were not cheap.
Andy Miller: Now, the plants are cheap. And we did explore and did do some cost
estimates that showed it is more expensive to put rope and posts along the planting areas
than to replant. And so the cost doesn’t benefit enough to do that. In six months, I am
virtually certain that 90% of the plants that you are seeing on the beach, even including
the ones that are trampled, are going to be in fine shape. If they are not, we are going to
go back and replant. And if we need to revisit some kind of protection or the contractor
needs to revisit some kind of protection, we can do that. But at this point, 9-10 miles of
beach is a lot to put in, a lot to maintain and a lot to take down eventually.
Dr. Judith Hushon: It is especially important in the public beach areas. It’s not really all
the beach, but there are public beach areas, especially along the entrances. Lowdermilk
is one of the ones that’s the most egregious, because it’s so heavily used. If we don’t do
everything, there are some of these Naples’ beaches that are very heavily used than
others. I would suggest that we do the heavily used beaches – forget some of the ends
with very few people – only the local residents using those. But the ones, maybe from
the pier, up to 7th North, up just North of Lowdermilk and Clam Pass area, which also
gets a lot of traffic.
Laura Hansen Reynolds: And in terms of priorities, if you could mark the walkway at the
beach end, the access out, that is where there are no signs to tell someone not to cut
across the planted area. And really in the area of 4th Avenue North, in just a few weeks,
the plants are not visible.
Joe Burke, Chairman: The FDPE guidelines we were talking about, you need to define
the walkways for the access and using the rope barriers to define the access. The other
important thing they said is the parking areas should have signage, notifying people of
the importance of not being on the dunes so they are not seeing it for the first time when
they enter the beach. So it is sort of a bigger project than just running the rope to do it. I
think it is going to come down to economics and then what resources we have.
Andy Miller: Anything we do, Mr. Chair, is going to have to be separate from the project
that is ongoing now. The reason being, the project that is ongoing now is FDEP ARPA
fund grant, which has very strict compliance issues. And so we can’t just start adding
dollars and items to this project. We have plans and a low bidder and a project that is
nearing completion as we speak. So as soon as the project is over, if we see issues that
we need to address, I think we can do it at that time.
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Joe Burke, Chairman: Right, and it may just be a test area and see because I am seeing
people taking those posts and using them for firewood and I don’t know if at Lowdermilk
those people would be dissuaded from cutting on the other side when the beach is packed.
Dr. Judith Hushon: At Lowdermilk, you need the rope on the inside as well as the outside.
I have photos on my phone that show people walking from the parking lot right across the
dunes to the sand. Not through the passageway. They're just walking randomly to the
beach.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right. I just don't know if a rope's going to dissuade them.
Dr. Judith Hushon: Well, ropes do.
Linda Penniman: They do. Joe?
Dr. Judith Hushon: They have no guidance now.
Linda Penniman: Question. Andy, if there were an enterprising group of people that were
willing to pay for the signage and put it out themselves, would that, is there a way that
something like that could happen, if they were willing to pay for it?
Andy Miller: If we're talking about the city of Naples beaches, from Park Shore to
Gordon Pass, that would be a discussion with Katie Lachman and Natalie Hartman.
That's kind of their purview. They would have to get permits, whatever permits were
required for that.
Linda Penniman: Okay. Would they have to then circle back through here, or could they
just gather their own permitting and get the job done?
Andy Miller: The city could. I think they could do that as a totally separate project from
what we're talking about, if they decide to go that way.
Linda Penniman: Okay. So you don't see any impediments for going to the city and
hoping that we can get it done there?
Andy Miller: I don't see any issues with someone approaching the city.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay. Thank you.
Colleen Greene: The next speaker is Justin Martin.
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Justin Martin, Public Works Director for the City of Marco Island
Discuss an item not on your agenda yet; was discussed last month in the form of an
email in opposition to the project to be presented in April CAC meeting, known as
the Sand Dollar Spit Restoration
Good afternoon, committee members. Justin Martin. I'm the public works director for the
city of Marco Island and I'm here today to discuss an item that has not come up on your
agenda yet. Although it was discussed here at this committee last month in the form of
an email in opposition to the project that will be presented here at your upcoming
meeting in April and that is the Sand Dollar Spit Restoration, which is in the northwest
corner of Marco Island. And I'd like to make a couple of points here. There's a couple of
photographs that I'd like to show you.
We did some restoration that was recently completed. Here you can see it's one of the
tour boats that goes out there. This was on the first day that we reopened the spit after we
had completed the restoration in February. And let me go to the next photo. Okay. Here,
this kind of gives you an overview of the spit. Okay, the spit is a public county beach
which attaches to Tigertail County Park down here at the southern end of this lagoon.
This is Hideaway Beach on the left. This is a gated community. But this on the right is
public beach. And it is accessed by the public from the Tigertail County Beach Park and
also by boaters, as you can see. It has just as much of a draw as Keewaydin Island does at
this time of year. The benefit that this has, that Keewaydin Island does not have, is that it
could be accessed by walking by land from the Collier County Tigertail Beach Park.
Some more photos of some of the boating that docks up against the back side of the spit.
As you can see, it's a very popular destination.
And so, I just wanted to mention that the Marco Island City Council voted unanimously
in favor of the original restoration project whose objective was to restore the area as close
as possible to the conditions prior to Hurricane Irma in 2017. And on February 18th of
this year, the City Council demonstrated their full support for the current restoration work
and voted unanimously to bring forward the request for TDC funding. And that's what I'll
be bringing to you next month here. And that's because the Marco Island beaches were
impacted by four hurricanes last year. Although we didn't have direct landfall, we had
storm surge from each of those hurricanes. And that was Debbie, Helene, Milton, and the
name of the fourth one escapes me right now.
Lastly, the original Tigertail Lagoon, Sand Dollar Island project was permitted in 2022
and received careful scrutiny by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection,
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and all of their engineering agencies and resources,
including the Fish and Wildlife Commission, Rookery Bay. It had input from the
Audubon Society, and the agencies continue to review and support the maintenance of
this project. It's a multi-year maintenance project. So, this sand spit is designed to take
the brunt of landfalling storms and storm surge to protect the Tigertail Beach area, the
residences, and is also a large tourist attraction.
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This sand spit was designated as one of 15 best-kept beaches in Florida by Reader's
Digest, and it's on the National Birding Trail. We have birders that are attracted
worldwide to come here at the tip of this spit, like I showed in the first photo, it is a
shorebird sanctuary. And I just wanted to bring that to your attention because I know that
this was discussed in an email that you received last month, and it's unfortunate you
received that ahead of time because we haven't even presented this project yet, but I
didn't want that to sit another month without having a response, and we'll be here to
present next month. Thank you for your time. I'm here to answer any questions you have.
Linda Penniman: Is that a current photo?
Justin Martin: Yes, this is last weekend. This is Saturday, March 8th. Yeah, all of the
photos I just showed are from this past weekend, except for the first one, which was the
first day, and that was in February.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Questions?
Erik Brecknitz: I do. Just a comment, if you care.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Well, let Erik speak, I guess.
Erik Brecknitz: I happen to live close by to this place, and once they opened that spit,
there were literally hundreds of boats that came in and out and stayed, and tour boats
from the hotels and the marinas, which brought tourists out and lots of people, and as
they were getting ready to open up the spit, there were dozens of people waiting to get it
open so they could walk down the beach. That whole spit and the berm that's on it
protects the houses beyond Tigertail, and so it's going to take most of the wave action of a
surge, and will protect those structures as well.
So, it's been a great project, and the notion that it doesn't serve the benefit of tourists is
silly. All of a sudden, they just came out of the woodwork as soon as it opened up, and
there are boats everywhere, and you can see from this picture that they're hooked up to
the spit. That's all I have.
Linda Penniman: Other than boat traffic, what about just pedestrian traffic?
Erik Brecknitz: Yeah, just to get an answer, but I'll assist you a bit. The pedestrian traffic
comes from Tigertail Beach, which is a county beach. There's over a half a million
visitors a year that go through Tigertail Beach annually, so there's huge pedestrian traffic
that occurs.
Linda Penniman: There is ready access by the public? Because I'm thinking that there is
one area where there's a guard station or something.
Erik Brecknitz: I can answer that as well. That's Hideaway Beach, and this spit doesn't
connect to Hideaway Beach. You can see that there's no connection, so even if you could
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get through Hideaway Beach, there's no way to get on this spit. You would have to go
through the park to do it, and that's what people do. And as Justin just pointed out, there's
not just people who want the sun and sand and shelling, but there's a huge bird
population, bird interest population that comes through, because it's a bird sanctuary in
parts of it, and there are interesting birds on that spit, and people come to see them.
Bob Roth: I agree with Erik 100% with regard to opening up the spit. I think that was
very important to do, because it was on the verge of closing off, and that would have
created a landlocked lagoon, and the whole ecology would have probably changed. But
what I wonder is, in hindsight, if it was really a good idea to take it all the way back to
the original Tigertail Lagoon, which is what the Friends of Tigertail were favoring, and if
the system would have rebuilt itself and just widened that beach, so people could walk
without the canal in between. Because I think the canal that ran all the way up was just to
daylight. The lagoon, that was really the connection to where people would walk across.
So, I think if, given time, nature would have taken that sand, made it part of Marco,
which is what it was trying to do, and there would have just been a wider beach there. So,
I don't know if the plan really should be rethought, because, you know.
Justin Martin: If I may, yeah, all that was taken into account, and the actual science
behind the inlet shifting shows that, and it historically showed that, what would happen if
you let it go is this spit would connect to Hideaway Beach, and you would end up with
private beach, no public beach. And then also, this is designed to serve as the first line of
defense against storm surge and land-falling storms, which protects all of these homes,
not just in the Hideaway Beach area, but also the Tigertail Beach. We did restore tidal
flow to the Tigertail Lagoon, which is now an estuary for spawning fish and marine life.
So, the environmental benefits of this project were so overwhelming that all of the
permitting agencies were convinced that this was a beneficial project. And one of the
benefits of this, too, is that since that sand migration naturally comes to the end of the
spit, part of the permit allows us to excavate that sand from this area to re-nourish the
spit, whereas if you look at other projects within Collier County, such as Vanderbilt
Beach, or even going up north of Venice all the way up to Sarasota, all of those projects,
you have to truck in the sand. We don't have to do that. We have the sand available right
here. And that's why the cost of maintenance of this is one-tenth of the cost of other
beach re-nourishment projects, where you have to truck in sand via trucks.
Erik Brecknitz: Absolutely. The county's paying $50 to $66 per cubic yard of sand in
order to re-nourish. We paid $5 to re-nourish that whole beach, and that's because we
dredged and used the dredged sand as the berm and increasing the beach.
Justin Martin: But again, I'm not here to litigate the project now. This will be presented to
you next month. All your questions will be answered. We'll have the scientist that was in
charge of designing this ecosystem restoration at that meeting who can answer all your
questions.
Steve Koziar: I just want to remind everyone that in the year 2000, that picture did not
exist. There was no land there whatsoever. Everything was... all that has been built up
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since the year 2000. And so, when we start thinking about making decisions, nature has
its way of changing things before we even get to do anything.
Erik Brecknitz: And of the total cost of the project, which was, what, somewhere right at
$5 million?
Justin Martin: Yeah, that was the restoration to restore it to conditions prior to Hurricane
Irma. We had two major land-flowing hurricanes, which is Irma and Ian, which affected
that.
Erik Brecknitz: And the highway residents, as I recall, paid about $4.1 million part of
that.
Justin Martin: That's correct. And the maintenance is just a small fraction of the cost
every two years.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay, any other questions? Okay, thank you.
Colleen Greene: Mr. Chair, you have one additional public speaker, Andrew Tyler.
Andrew Tyler, Marco Island Resident and Author of email
Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I'm Andrew Tyler. I'm a 13-year-old resident
on Marco Island, and I am the author of the email to which the previous speaker was just
referring. I did watch the recording of your meeting last month and heard a discussion
around inviting both Dr. DeBese and myself for a conversation here, which did not
happen, and I was disappointed that the discussion just mentioned has got deferred on
Friday by, quote, higher ups in the county. I dropped on you a large document with a
description relating to this, and thank you to Mr. Miller for sharing with you all. It's a
hefty document, and I thought you should have a look at the author of it before you get
into it too far.
I was a lab scientist. I did analytical work for my professional life, and I'm a data-driven
person because of that, and I have documented the destruction that the berm just
mentioned since it was constructed. You will find that in the package that you received.
The berm that was just completed is falling apart already, and I would estimate based on
an assessment I made, a casual one, that it would only need two feet of storm surge on
top of a high tide to start washing away this just-completed berm that's already falling
apart. You will find pictures of this in the package of information you have. With regard
to Tigertail Park, which is a county property, remember the berm you just saw? That is
not county property. That's City of Marco property. So, the park was used as the staging
area for this project that just wound up. No nourishment to the beach there was done. All
the park got was tire tracks. It's a mess, and I'm happy that anybody who'd like to come
visit, I will give you a tour with it. I realize sunshine means we can't do a group tour, but
I'm more than happy. Anybody wants to come down and do it soon because it's getting
warm out there, but I'm more than happy to do that.
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I hope you will review the document that I sent you before the discussion next month,
and I'm happy to discuss by phone or email with any individual who would like to if there
are any questions on that. And I hope you'll consider that before you discuss the ask--
which has gone from $325,000, to the region of $575,000. Why has that gone up so
much? I would encourage you, with respect, to ask that question as well because it isn't
going to get any less in the future.
Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Thank you. Questions?
Erik Brecknitz: Just one comment, Mr. Chair. The speaker's entitled to his opinion, and
his own opinion, but he's not entitled to his own facts. And the fact is that the city of
Marco Island owns no beaches, none.
Andrew Tyler: Okay, who maintains the spit?
Erik Brecknitz: By the way, the tax district has been maintaining it, but it doesn't have to
be maintained. They could just decide not to do it, and it would fill up. But it's not owned
by the city. Every beach in the state of Florida is owned by the state of Florida. The state
of Florida has then ceded to the county the responsibility of maintaining those beaches
and the responsibility for upkeep. The city of Decatur owns no beaches. They have no
responsibility to maintain any of the beaches. And the county has the responsibility, and
the state of Florida owns them. So please do not say that it's a city beach, because it is
not.
Andrew Tyler: Can I ask Mr. Miller to come to the microphone, please?
Joe Burke, Chairman: Sure.
Andrew Tyler: My question is, where does the county maintenance of the beaches on
Marco Island end?
Andy Miller: The county maintenance, the daily beach rating starts right at the northerly
widest part of Marco Island Beach. Everything north of that is a critical wildlife area, so
we don't touch it. That's state property. It's all state property, but the county maintains
only the wide beach all the way down to the south end at Cape Marco. Thank you
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right. So I think we're getting legal easy on whether we own it
or... We have an interest in it, right? So whether...
Erik Brecknitz: The state owns it.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Yeah the state owns, the federal owns, there's all sorts of different
jurisdictions in terms of property rights.
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Erik Brecknitz: But not the city of Naples or the city of Marco.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right, but both cities have a vested interest in protecting the asset.
Erik Brecknitz: But we don't own it, and we have no legal responsibility to maintain it.
Joe Burke, Chairman: I think by the permit...
Erik Brecknitz: There are moral opportunities, or...
Joe Burke, Chairman: Well, an economic one.
Erik Brecknitz: And an economic one, but no legal responsibility.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Yes. And that's why, so at the end of the day, do we really... I don't
care who owns it. We have an interest in it.
Erik Brecknitz: Of course.
Joe Burke, Chairman: And we're gonna do what we have to do to protect that interest,
right?
Steve Koziar: But that is under permit to the city of Marco Island. Originally for 15 years,
it now has 13 years. So, I would think as long as the city is burdened by that permit, it has
the responsibility of fulfilling that permit, which I believe requires this maintenance. Or
at least that's what was requested when the permit was applied for. So, just another view
of it.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay. So any other questions? Or Linda? Sorry.
Linda Penniman: Based on the last remark, did we have a copy of the agreement?
Anything that gives us any kind of a pathway here to who's on first?
Andy Miller: Well, it manages the beaches under permits. We have both a raking permit
and a renourishment permit for Marco with the state. But it's state beaches, but we
manage it via permit.
Joe Burke, Chairman: We don't have an active action item for this right now, correct?
Yeah. Yeah. The ship is informational at this point.
Linda Penniman: And yet, sir, I don't believe I got your information. So I don't believe I
got it. Was it part of the agreement?
Steve Koziar: Well, the ship has sailed on this project. It's over. The only issue is,
someone is complaining on, who gets reimbursed. And that's really the issue that is
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coming before. I understand it's coming before this. It's not about environmental. It's not
about construction. It's just who pays.
Andrew Tyler: Mr. Chairman, may I comment further? Okay. My concern is more to do
with the destruction of the mangroves that have occurred in the lagoon on the Hidaway
Beach side as a result of the destruction of the berm that was built previously.
Steve Koziar: That's over. It's gone. It's finished. Ship has sailed. The environmentalists
have looked at this, and it's over. We're just looking at who pays right now. That's the
only issue.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay. Any other comments or questions? Thank you, sir. Thank
you.
Colleen Greene: None
VI. Approval of CAC Minutes
February 13, 2025
Joe Burke, Chairman:
The next agenda item is approval of the CAC minutes and are there questions or
comments on the previous meeting minutes? My only comment was the attendee list
needs to be updated.
Bob Roth: My only comment was, yeah, if it could identify the different jurisdictions
that the people come from, because half of them are blank. So, I marked it up for Marie
to add. I'll give it to you.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay. So, any other comments on the meeting minutes? If not, can
I get a motion? Motion made by Erik Brecknitz; seconded by Bob Roth. No opposition
and the minutes were approved.
VII. Staff Reports
Extended Revenue Report
Joe Burke, Chairman: Next agenda item, Andy, staff reports.
Andy Miller: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And this is a similar situation to last month's, which
is all good news, but the graph is becoming more interesting as the months go by. You
can see the lighter red from the year 2024 numbers, and you can see the darker red for
2025, FY 2025, virtually a coincidence. And so, I don't know what that means, except
that if last year's was good news, this year's is as good or better. We're looking at a budget
surplus of 33.2%, and so nothing negative to see about the report. Any questions? Yes, sir.
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Erik Brecknitz: Andy, what is the balance in the Beach Renourishment Fund at this point?
Andy Miller: Erik, I'll have to get that number for you outside of here. I meant to get that
in prep for this meeting, but I didn't have the time to ask OMB for that number. Okay.
Erik Brecknitz: I'd be interested in knowing what that is. I mean, I see what the current
revenue numbers are, but we have a balance carried over from previous years added to
what we're having this year, and that kind of tells me how much we have to spend overall
if there's another serious problem. And I think maybe we're going to avoid serious
problems for a while. We have been hit pretty hard for the last three or four years. I've
been on Marco Island since 1995, and the first hurricane I saw was in 2005, and the next
one was in 2015. So, there were about 10-year intervals just until recently, and we've
been blasted pretty hard.
Andy Miller: We have.
Erik Brecknitz: So maybe we're due for a break. I don't know.
Roy Burke, Chairman: We can pray. We can only hope. Okay.
VIII. New Business
1. ES - Vanderbilt & Pelican Bay Beach Renourishment
• Work Order – Vanderbilt and Pelican Bay: Recommendation by Andy Miller,
Coastal Zone Management, to approve a work order with Humiston & Moore
Engineers to provide professional engineering services for the 2025 Vanderbilt
Beach Renourishment Project and 2025 Pelican Bay Beach Renourishment under
Contract No. 18-7432-CZ for time and material not to exceed $143,811 and made
a finding that this item promotes tourism (Fund 1105, Project No. 90066 and
50126). Documents supplied to the advisory committee include: Executive
Summary; Work Order/Purchase Order; Humiston & Moore Engineers Proposal
of February 4, 2025; SEA Diversified Proposal/Agreement for Professional
Services of February 4, 2025 and Collier County Direct Select Form for Contract
18-7432-CZ dated January 21, 2025. After much discussion, a roll call vote was
put forth – committee vote was four yes and three no. The motion carried.
Discussion on Item 1:
Andy Miller: First and second items are for our planned upcoming renourishment
projects for November, December of 2025. The first item is for the design of Vanderbilt
Beach and Pelican Bay's beach. We have three consultants on board on a rotational
contract basis, and they do fine work for us. And then for Vanderbilt and Pelican Bay, we
have asked Humiston and Moore to prepare our bid package for us to get ready to go to
work in November. And our recommendation is to approve a work order with Humiston
and Moore Engineers to provide professional engineering services for the 2025 beach
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renourishment project and the 2025 Pelican Bay beach renourishment under contract 18-
7432-CZ for time and materials not to exceed $143,811 and make a finding that this item
promotes tourism. Any questions?
Linda Penniman: I see $48,690 allocated for Pelican Bay. These are TDC funds?
Andy Miller: Those are TDC funds, yes.
Linda Penniman: Where does the public access Pelican Bay beach?
Andy Miller: I can't answer that specifically, Linda. We've got, I know the Ritz Hotels is
right there at Pelican Bay. As far as, you know, street ends, they don't have that.
Linda Penniman: No, and then you've got a pass there on the south end, so the only way
to access it would be to walk across the path, given the proper conditions, that the tide
isn't too high.
Andy Miller: That's correct.
Linda Penniman: Or a boat, but I don't see many boats pulling up to Pelican Bay beach.
So other than the Ritz, I don't see, I'm quarreling, quite honestly, with using TDC funds
when I don't think that there is easy public access to that beach.
Andy Miller: I'm not going to disagree that there's not easy public access, but there's
certainly access longitudinally coming from the north or coming from the south, if you
want to trek across the Clam Pass on a low tide. But CAC, TDC, and BCC have all
decided long ago that TDC dollars were eligible to be spent for Pelican Bay's beach.
Linda Penniman: And I'm sorry, I've read the information. Certainly, is there also any
kind of matching funds that comes from the PBSD to help renourish us?
Andy Miller: I'm not aware if there are matching funds specific.
Linda Penniman: So the PBSD, nothing is forthcoming from Pelican Bay?
Andy Miller: That would be a question for the Pelican Bay Services Division. I'm not
privy to their budget.
Colleen Greene: And Mr. Miller, there is language in the fiscal impact that defines that
the PBSD will provide, contribute funding based on the ratio or the quality of sand that is
provided to the PBSD. So, there is some cost funding today. We don't have the
information as to what that is, but it's noted in the fiscal impact that the Pelican Bay
Services Division does contribute its pro rata share for the sand. And that was completed
by our fiscal people. So that is something that is considered.
Linda Penniman: But we don't have the number?
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Colleen Greene: We don't have the number.
Linda Penniman: Okay. Then I would probably not vote for this personally for that exact
reason. I don't think we have a lot of the information we need to have to make a decision
today.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay. Other questions or comments on this? So, I guess just for
clarity then, because the way I read this, I assumed that the $48,690 was going to be
reimbursed by Pelican Bay Services Division.
Andy Miller: That's correct. And this is only for the design package, the total of
$143,000. It's not approving construction or anything related to the actual construction of
the project. This is only for the design and permitting.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Okay. Okay. So, any other questions? Do I get a motion? Erik
Brecknitz made motion.Yes. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Okay.
Second by Steve Koziac. All in favor? Aye. So we got how many ayes?
Both Roth: I'm going to say no. And I'll explain why.
Erik Brecknitz: Did we have a roll call vote on something like this?
Joe Burke, Chairman: Yeah, why don't we do a roll call? Okay. So, we'll start with
Judith.
Dr. Judith Hushon: I'm voting no because I don't have enough information. I think this is
missing information. We've always had a position whereby Pelican Bay paid for its own
activities because they do not have public access. So, we should not be paying for Pelican
Bay. It's not clear that that's a reimbursable amount. I assumed it was. But maybe that was
a mistake. It doesn't state that. Okay. So, no.
Roy Burke, Chairman: Bob?
Bob Roth: So, I am going to vote no because I don't see the sense of spending the money
on a design that may not get implemented, that may have some after-the-fact issues. So, I
think those issues would need to be resolved first before we spend money on designing a
project that may not be built.
Roy Burke, Chairman: So, let me ask a question before we go forward. One, if we have a
no for this item, what's the impact for you?
Andy Miller: Let me tell you that we have essentially from this date until November 1st
in order to design, create a bid package, advertise for bid, and start construction. So we
have, in essence, six to eight months to do all that work. And if we're going to lose a
minimum of a month because our next meeting is a month from now, it's going to put a
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heavy dent in that schedule. And just remember that you're affecting everything from
Mariah Bay down to the Ritz. That's all Vanderbilt Beach. Pelican Bay is a small portion
of this project. And again, this $48,690 is coming from Pelican Bay Services Division to
pay for their portion of the design. The same ratio or thereabouts will apply to the
construction as well. So, the funds that you're looking at that are coming from TDC
funds, that's correct, but through Pelican Bay Services Division's budget. That's been
approved.
Linda Penniman: Well, there is a reference here to….
Erik Brecknitz: Point of order Mr. Chairman. Robert’s Rules of Order says that once he
calls a roll call on an item that has been moved and seconded, you don't have further
discussion. You've started the roll call. You have to at least finish the roll call before we
have this kind of discussion. This discussion should have taken place before we had a
motion and a second and we started the roll call.
Dr. Judith Hushon: It did. We had discussion.
Erik Brecknitz: But why are we having more? We shouldn't have more. The point is that
Robert's Rules says that once you've started, and by the way, they also say, you can vote
yes or no, but you can't sit there and explain why you voted yes or explain why you voted
no.
Dr. Judith Hushon: Yes, you can.
Erik Brecknitz: No, you cannot. Trust me, I've read Robert's Rules from front to back and
back to front.
Dr. Judith Hushon: It's done regularly.
Erik Brecknitz: Well, it may be done, but it's a violation of Robert's Rules. I don't know
what our rules of procedure are. I would defer to our...
Colleen Greene: We do have rules of procedure, which I can pull out. And I think
whenever our rules are silent, we can refer to Robert's Rules for guidance. I think that's
basically what our rules of procedure say.
But in Mr. Brecknick's recommendation, I think let's complete the vote. And then after
the vote, if any committee member would like to say why he or she voted the way that
they did, that committee member may do so. Now, if this committee votes no, the process
will continue. And this item will go to the Tourist Development Council at the TDC
meeting with a note of what your recommendation was.
Joe Burke, Chairman: Right. Okay. So 2 nos. So, Steve, you're up.
Steve Koziar: Yes.
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Roy Burke, Chairman: Yes.
Erik Brecknitz: Yes.
Linda Penniman: No.
Bob Raymond: Yes.
Roy Burke, Chairman: Okay. So, four yeses, three noes. Is that my math right?
Steve Koziar: Five
Colleen Greene: Four people voted in the affirmative. So, the motion passes.
Steve Koziar: How? Isn't five a majority?
Colleen Greene: But you only have seven people present. You need five people to have a
quorum to host your meeting.
Roy Burke, Chairman: Okay. That was painful. Hopefully the next one's less painful.
2. ES – Naples Beach Renourishment
• Work Order – Naples Beach: Recommendation by Andy Miller, Coastal Zone
Management, to approve work order with APTIM Environmental &
Infrastructure, LLC to provide professional engineering services for the 2025
Naples Beach Renourishment Project under Contract No. 18-7432-CZ for time
and material not to exceed $149,010.40 and make a finding that this item
promotes tourism (Fund 1105, Project No. 90068). Documents supplied to the
advisory committee include: Executive Summary; Work Order/Purchase Order
Contract 18-7432-CZ “Professional Services Library – Coastal Engineering
Category” Contract Expiration Date: March 9, 2026; APTIM’s Proposal for
Engineering Services for 2025 Naples Beach Renourishment Project (Contract
No. 18-7432-CZ) dated January 31, 2025 and Collier County Direct Select Form
for Contract 18-7432-CZ dated January 21, 2025. No questions or comments.
Erik Brecknitz made a motion; seconded by Bob Raymond. Motion passed with
no opposition.
3. ES – Aptim LGFB
• Work Order – Aptim LGFR: Recommendation by Andy Miller, Coastal Zone
Management, to approve a work order with APTIM Environmental &
Infrastructure, LLC to provide professional engineering services for 2026-2027
Local Government Funding Request under Contract No. 18-7432-CZ for time and
material not to exceed $28,462 and made a finding that this item promotes
tourism (Fund 195, Project 90065). Documents supplied to the advisory
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committee include: Executive Summary; Work Order/Purchase Order Contract
18-7432-CZ “Professional Services Library Coastal Engineering Category”
Contract Expiration Date: March 9, 2026; APTIM’s Proposal for 2026-2027
Local Government Funding Request (LGFR) Preparation Collier County,
Contract No. 18-7432-CZ, dated February 12, 2025 and Collier County Direct
Select Form or Contract No. 18-7432-CZ (no date). No questions or comments?
Linda Penniman made a motion, seconded by Erik Brecknitz. Motion passed with
no opposition.
4. ES – Change Order #3 – Park Shore
• Work Order #3 – Earth Tech – Park Shore: Recommendation by Andy Miller,
Coast Zone Management, to approve a Change Order No. 3 for contract No. 24-
8292 with Earth Tec Enterprises, Inc. for the Park Shore Beach Renourishment,
increasing the contract amount by $7,000; and make a finding that this item
promotes tourism (Project 90067). Documents supplied to the advisory
committee include: Executive Summary; Collier County Procurement Services
Change Order Form under Contract No. 24-8292, CO#3, PO# 4500236559,
Project #: 90067; Proposal by Earth Tech Enterprises dated February 21, 2025 for
a Park Shore regrade in the amount of $7,000 and Transportation Management
Services Work Directive Change for Project 24-8292 Park Shore Renouishment,
Change #2, dated February 19, 2025. Discussion on responsibility of the
homeowner causing the potential rework. Mr. Miller advised no. Linda
Penniman made motion; seconded by Dr. Judith Hushon. Motion passed with no
opposition. [Some discussion and questions regarding homeowner potentially
delaying the process and Mr. Miller advised it was not the case.]
IX. Old Business
ASCE Article on Beach Renourishment: Chairman Burke presented and attached article
entitled “Lifecycle Analyses of Subaerial Beach Nourishments with Concurrent
Nearshore Placement of Dredged Sediment and the Role of Alongshore Transport” and
published by ASCE. This was a recently published study by ASCE and it goes to Linda's
interest in keeping sand on the beach. And the interesting part of this article is talking
about the importance of what they call sub-aerial beach and whether there are dunes that
really exist in the water that are keeping the sand on the beach. And their study basically
shows where they should be, how big they should be, and whether it protects against
longshore transport or storm damage where it comes in perpendicular to the shore.
Asked Linda Penniman to review the article for her comments and thought interesting
article that would spike some interest – any questions or comment – Linda will read and
give it a synopsis.
Question to Andy Miller from Linda Penniman on wads (water attenuation devices):
Miller has seen those; goes to beach conferences twice a year and those mechanisms are
presented by the various vendors. Have seen case studies where they report positive
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findings. But I have never had the occasion to consider them on our projects. I'm leery
about placing anything, especially in the near shore, where we have people swimming,
boaters and the like. If you're talking about the protection of, in the case where I've seen
reports of protection for causeways and bridge abutments and things like that where you
obviously need the hardened structures, but along the beach is a different matter and I'd
be hesitant to put anything. Permitting is going to be an issue obviously with the state
and so you probably saw the FDOT project. In that particular case there was no
swimming anywhere contiguous to that. So they've sort of established a precedence if
you will where they may be of some value as long as there are no people waiting out. It's
not designated as beach access.
X. Announcement
Erik Brecknitz requested that the County Attorney, Colleen Greene, provide, via email, a
copy of Robert’s Rules of Order to all members of the advisory board. Ms. Greene
agreed to do so.
XI. Committee Member Discussion
Robert Roth asked that Rhonda Watkins be invited to the next board meeting to present
the same 2023 Report (actually a 2024 water quality report) presented to the Big Cypress
Basin Board on February 22, 2024. Linda Penniman supports this request and Andy
Miller will invite her to attend at next meeting.
XII. Next Meeting Date/Location
April 10, 2024 at 1:00 p.m.
XIII. Adjournment
There being no further business for the good of The County, the Coastal Advisory
Committee Hearing was adjourned at 2:15 p.m.
Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee
_____________________________________________
Chairman, Joe Burke
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The Minutes were approved by:
_____________________________________________
NAME
_____________________________________________
SIGNATURE
As presented on ___________________________
Or amended on ____________________________