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BCC Minutes 03/04/2025 WMarch 4, 2025 Page 1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida, March 4, 2025 LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in WORKSHIP SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present: Chairman: Burt L. Saunders Dan Kowal Chris Hall Rick LoCastro William L. McDaniel, Jr. ALSO PRESENT: Amy Patterson, County Manager Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations COLLIER COUNTY Board of County Commissioners Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB) Airport Authority CLAM PASS, LANDFILL/ SOLID AND HAZARDOUS WASTE, STRATEGIC PLANNING, AND BUDGET/ RESOURCE X WORKSHOP AGENDA Board of County Commission Chambers Collier County Government Center 3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor Naples, FL 34112 March 4, 2025 9:00 AM Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3; - Chair Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; - Vice Chair Commissioner Rick Locastro, District 1 Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIR. ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT. IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIARNI TRAIL, SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380 1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. WORKSHOP TOPICS PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL BE HEARD FOR EACH TOPIC. 3. CLAM PASS 4. LANDFILL/ SOLID AND HAZARDOUS WASTE A. Strategic planning B. Budget/ Resource X 5. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA 6. ADJOURN INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 252-8383. March 4, 2025 Page 2 MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Ms. Patterson, we have -- we're going to start off the meeting hopefully in the right way. I'm going to ask Commissioner Hall to lead us in the prayer, and then I'm going to ask Commissioner LoCastro to lead us in the Pledge. Item #1 INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - INVOCATION GIVEN BY COMMISSIONER HALL; PLEDGE LED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO COMMISSIONER HALL: Father, we just thank you. We come to you today asking you for your presence and your wisdom. We love you, we trust you, and we welcome your presence in the meeting, and we pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Please join me. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just a reminder to folks that may want to speak on any particular topic, if you've not already done so, please register to speak, and we'll call you on the specific item that you want to comment on. Ms. Patterson. MS. PATTERSON: Welcome to our March 4th workshop. Item #2A CLAM PASS - PRESENTED BY NEIL DORRILL (ADMINISTRATOR PELICAN BAY SERVICES), CHAD COLEMAN (DEPUTY DIRECTOR PELICAN BAY SERVICES), March 4, 2025 Page 3 AND DR. MOHAMED DABEES (PROJECT ENGINEER - HUMISTON & MOORE) – DISCUSSED WITH DIRECTION GIVEN MS. PATTERSON: We have several topics on the agenda today, so we're going to jump right in and start out with Item 2A, which is Clam Pass. We have several self members from the Pelican Bay Services Department here -- or Division here to present and to answer questions. So with that, let me turn it over to Mr. Dorrill. MR. DORRILL: Good morning, Commissioners, and thank you for what you do. Additionally, with me today is our deputy director, Chad Coleman. I also have Jeremy Sterk, who is our leading environmentalist, and Dr. Mohamed Dabees, who is our coastal engineer who can speak separately to both civil engineering issues as well as water-quality issues and the management plan that is in place there. I think what I'd like to do is perhaps give you a quick overview and history of the more modern times associated with the system that is there. And I'll need a little help flipping through these slides. What I want to do is I want to talk a little bit about dredging. The permits, there are two that are behind the dredging. The fact that the Clam Bay system was the county's first Natural Resource Protection Area and designated as such and then what that entails and then specifically the management plan that is in place there. With that, I would want you to know that from the beginning, I think the Clam Bay residents and taxpayers have really been wonderful stewards of your first Natural Resource Protection Area. They have devoted themselves to the science and the research behind what is one of the smallest natural inlets on the West Coast of Florida, and they have spent an awful high amount of their own tax March 4, 2025 Page 4 dollars, in addition to support from the BCC, where applicable for both their beaches and the mangroves and the inlet itself. I want to go back about 25 years this morning. The first real I'll call it modern-day issues associated with the system began in the late '90s. Fortunately, a year after I left county government. And so it manifests itself in a fairly large mangrove die-off that occurred in the north end of the system. There was widespread concern throughout the entire area as to what was causing the mangrove die-off that began in 1998. And so that began the first attempt to create a management plan and a set of circumstances and conditions in support of the system. It also resulted in a fairly novel and innovative series of miles of hand-dug channels in the north end of the system to be able to convey stormwater out of the system and into the saltwater system as a way of saving the mangroves. But that all started in the late 1990s with the first management plan and then the first joint permit between the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and the Army Corps of Engineers. The first hydraulic dredge occurred the following year, in 1999. The system has been hydraulically dredged with a mini dredge on at least three occasions and has been mechanically dredged with either drag lines or track hoes or excavators on about seven other occasions over the last 25 years. Every two to three years, the system needs some sort of help in that regard. Let's go to the next slide. The permit was set to expire in 2008, and over the course of the last 25 years, approximately 21 of those years the Pelican Bay Services Division was responsible for the operation, maintenance, and oversight of Clam Bay and the estuary that is there. There was a brief period of time when our colleagues at Coastal Zone Management were responsible for the system. And as a result of March 4, 2025 Page 5 some changes in the design parameters and a fair amount of opposition within the environmental community countywide and Pelican Bay in particular, there were a series of challenges associated with the inlet there that delayed the issuance of a permit even with an extension. The long and the short of it was that in 2012 the inlet closed completely and created a fair amount of alarm on the part of people throughout the entire urban area as a result of that. And with a revision to our ordinance the following year in 2013, the stewardship of that system was given back to the Pelican Bay Services Division. And at the same time, the pass was reopened mechanically. This is actually a picture from about 12 years ago when that occurred. Next slide. In conjunction with that and with an effort to obtain new 10-year permits from both the Army Corps and the DEP, there was a condition put upon us which became, I think, a bell-weather event, that there needed to be a new and more comprehensive approach to the management plan that was in place. So the following year, after the pass was reopened -- again, this is a picture of a post-event there -- work was underway. There were an astounding number of 28 public meetings and workshops that took place during that particular period of time. Next slide. So these are the various elements of what became Collier County's first Natural Resource Protection Area and the overlay for that. You can see the legal description in the boundary on the exhibit that is there to the left. It shows very well inner, outer, and upper Clam Bay, which are very integral to the system there. The original goal was to establish a basin in conjunction with the permits, and the permits are tied to the management plan and cannot be amended or changed unless the management plan is March 4, 2025 Page 6 supportive of that change. The objectives, though, were to maintain and protect the very unique natural flora and fauna within the various communities that were there to ensure; number two, that the estuary had an adequate tidal prism or flushing and combination of freshwater flows out of the inlet, perhaps most importantly to monitor and control water quality. Believe it or not, there are some ancient Calusa archaeological shell middens that are there that are incorporated within the plan and unique protection status given to the archaeological sites; and then to promote passive recreation. And those were the original goals of the Board of County Commissioners at the time that the plan was taken underway. Next slide. The plan was finally adopted by the Board of County Commissioners in 2015, and as a result of that, new permits were issued early the following year by both the Corps and the DEP for maintenance, dredging activities, and a whole host of conditions associated with what is now an annual report that needs to be compiled and submitted and approved by the board at Pelican Bay Services. Again, there had been a total of about 12 events, either excavation, grading, mechanical dredging, or the hydraulic dredging with the little mini dredgers that have taken place over time. Our costs have been the lowest per cubic yard of any comparable work because I'd like to think that we thought a little bit outside the box, and, frankly, we were able to do certain things mechanically as opposed to paying fairly high mobilization costs on the part of people who own and operate mini dredges in environments like this. Former County Manager Ochs commissioned a five-year review of the management plan and the operating parameters that occurred in 2019, and it was accepted at that time. March 4, 2025 Page 7 Here is a copy -- and did we bring extra copies? Let's pass those out. This is the current design dredge, fill, and grading template for the inlet. It might be helpful. It's hard to read this one, so we brought copies when we get into questions and answers and concerns on the part of our city residents who are to the south of us. The average dredge cut is anywhere between four and a half to five and a half NVD, which is essentially mean sea level. It is a fairly shallow design dredge cut, and that is for particular reasons that enhance the outgoing tide's flushing ability to flush or to scour out sand that finds its way into the inlet. There are three different sections. Section A is actually the mouth of the inlet. It has the deepest parameters. Section B historically has the largest accumulation of sand that will impact the system. Section C, to the east where it makes a 90-degree turn and heads south into the bay there, has the least amount of sand. The most recent bathymetric surveys which were submitted in January -- DR. DABEES: February. MR. DORRILL: February, this past month, show that there's currently about 10,000 cubic yards of material in the system. The highest in history was when the pass closed back in 2012. It had 20,000 cubic yards. On average, it will have anywhere between 13,000 to 13,500 cubic yards before it needs help. And the way that we know that is through underwater bathymetric surveys, and also we measure tide levels in real time, and we correlate the difference in the tide between low tide and high tide. And we need to have at least a half a foot of difference between low tide and high tide in terms of elevation in order to get enough water into the system on an incoming tide to be able to help with that scour and prolong the ability for this thing to maintain itself. March 4, 2025 Page 8 And currently, it has been in excess of six-tenths of a percent. So while it's got 10,000 cubic yards of sand in it, as reported last month, the tide range ratios are still about a tenth to about a 15-tenths of a foot over where they need to be, which is a good thing. As a result of that, as I stand here today, I don't believe that we will try to rush to do a dredge event there in advance of sea turtle nesting season. I think the preference and recommendations of our engineers and consultants would be we'd be better off to wait till the fall at the end of sea turtle nesting season and hopefully what will not be a busy tropical storm season. The entire system is very, very affected by wave energy and prevailing winds. Prevailing winds, over time, is measured, and within our management report prominently come from the west on shore. And if you have a bad hurricane season where the winds are from the south, west, or the west/southwest, it pushes a lot of that beach renourishment sand up into the system, and that has been an area of concern. We've had a number of beach renourishment projects in the last three years. There's one currently underway this year in Park Shore. Some of that sand will be up in Clam Pass at the park in the inlet probably this time next year. There's another beach renourishment project that is contemplated, I believe, for Vanderbilt and Pelican Bay. During the winter cold front season, some of that sand can push south as well. So we're dealing with a lot of dynamics, but we're primarily dealing with historical prevailing winds, the intensity of the winds, and the height of the waves. And so wave energy is something that we monitor very closely. Next slide. A little bit of the most recent history and work associated there. Really, in the last eight years, there have been about six events. March 4, 2025 Page 9 Some of that is because of the hurricane activity of the most recent period of time. And, again, over the course of that time, there was only one hydraulic dredge, and the last one occurred seven years ago in 2018. So, again, it's fairly rare for us to do and commission a hydraulic dredging event. We've been very effective over time and very cost effective by being able to do both grading and excavation and mechanical dredging where necessary. Next slide. I already talked a little bit about this. The current permit expires a year from today, and so permit renewal is underway. Fortunately, the new cycles are that they will be 15-year permits, not 10-year permits. And so that work is underway as we speak at the moment. You will probably hear from residents of Naples Cay and Seagate today. They sort of commissioned an independent civil engineering review of the management plan and the current dredge and fill and grading parameters of our management plan and are going to have some recommendations of their own. I think we're willing to explore or evaluate or model alternatives, but it would need to take place as part of a permit modification or a permit amendment. The time that it takes and the review and the comment and the notice periods, I would not want to be trying to evaluate alternative designs over the course of the next 12 months to potentially change the fill and cut characteristics of a dredge event. It is better to do that through an amendment process, and we have done that in the current cycle. As a result of a lot of the beach renourishment sand, the fill template, or where I can put the sand when we remove it from the inlet, we ran out of capacity. The current management plan obligates us to fill to capacity the public park first at Clam Pass before any of the sand can go on the north side of the inlet and onto March 4, 2025 Page 10 the beaches at Pelican Bay. We ran out of places to place sand both in terms of elevation and length and width, and so we amended the most recent permits about a year and a half ago to be able to enlarge and lengthen further north and further south on the fill side, and it's a much easier process. So if we're going to contemplate any changes to the design, it needs to be as part of a little more deliberative process, I think. With that, I want to stop because I had sort of thought we'd -- you know, my comments from an overview perspective could be accomplished in about 15 minutes. What I would like to do is see what initial questions or observations are there on the part of the Commission and then see whether or not our two consultants this morning feel like they should elaborate and then presumably turn to the public. So happy to answer your questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. That was very well done, very informative. Are there any questions or comments from the Commission before we turn to the public? Commissioner Hall -- oh, I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You can let him go first. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was just quicker on the button than he was. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Mr. Dorrill. So I have several little questions. And I may have missed it, but just what happened when Mother Nature was in charge? I know that this thing closed one year and that there was a die-off. But way before that, what happened with this pass? MR. DORRILL: Going back into the late '60s and early '70s, dredge and fill -- COMMISSIONER HALL: I remember that. March 4, 2025 Page 11 MR. DORRILL: -- development both north and south took place in the Naples Cay/Seagate/Parkshore Unit 5, which is the most northern, and all of the Vanderbilt Beach Estates and the Vanderbilt Lagoon. So it went from an identical type of mangrove estuary to a 1960s, 1970s dredge/fill canal in the backyard sort of approach. As a result of that, the hydraulics of Clam Pass were altered. While there is a series of culverts that are underneath the main drive into Naples Cay and Seagate, there's not a lot of tidal flushing or transfer that takes place there. And the northern end of what was a long linear mangrove estuary was blocked when Vanderbilt Beach Road was constructed, and then the ensuing Connors Estate and Vanderbilt Beach communities were developed in the early 1970s. COMMISSIONER HALL: All right. MR. DORRILL: So we've got a system that is hampered or hamstrung and needs help in order to prevent what actually occurred in my hometown in Sarasota at Midnight Pass. About 40, 50 years ago the pass closed, the commission elected to let Mother Nature take its course under those -- it never reopened. It reopened briefly following Hurricane Helene, I think, and closed up like a day later. So systems that are hampered need some help from a hydrology perspective because, otherwise, they will fail over time. It's a great question. COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. I wasn't advocating for that. I was just -- so basically, the development spread the water -- spread the flow out, and that's the reason why we need help today. I get that. So secondly, how long does it take? How long does the dredge take? You know, you said we can't do it before sea turtle season, or we don't recommend that. But I was just curious as to how long it takes to dredge it. MR. DORRILL: I'm going to get Chad to help answer that March 4, 2025 Page 12 from a procurement side, because it takes much longer to do the preconstruction than it takes to actually physically do the work. MR. COLEMAN: The physical work is only about a month’s worth of work, but going through the procurement process and getting the right contracts -- right now we're using a beach maintenance contract, which has expired, and we're looking for an extension there. We've talked with Coastal Zone about including a hydraulic piece to that because right now it's just mechanical. But actual construction, you're looking at a month to two months for actual physical work: Mobilization, execution, and demobilization. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: For our record, could you go ahead and state your name. MR. COLEMAN: Chad Coleman, operations -- my title changed. MR. DORRILL: Deputy director. MR. COLEMAN: Assistant. MR. DORRILL: I worked hard to create that position. MR. COLEMAN: Assistant director or deputy director, Neil's bodyguard, whatever you want to call it, for Pelican Bay Services Division, Chad Coleman. COMMISSIONER HALL: Great. So, basically, we're in the way. Government's in the way of getting things done? MR. COLEMAN: No, not necessarily. Like I said, we're using that contract. We work with CZM. When they renew that contract, if we can add that piece. As long as we have that contract in place, we can mobilize, and we can do that work. In, actually, 2020 we did an in-house project where I just rented equipment and we did it in-house. That's -- it was COVID time frame. We couldn't get anybody to do the work, so we made it happen at that time. March 4, 2025 Page 13 But I wouldn't say that the government is in the way. We have the contracts in place. It's just their availability as well. So if you're on a tight time frame before sea turtle season, that's asking a lot, especially when these companies are doing beach renourishment. COMMISSIONER HALL: It wasn't that. I was just -- I was curious as to how long it took. I wasn't wanting it before or after. MR. COLEMAN: Yeah. And the only thing that changes it, if you have an event during the work. We've had that happen, too, a storm event or anything, because it is very sensitive. And if you have prevailing winds or a lot of storms, and if you have a hydraulic dredge in there, it gets a little rocky, and they have to pull that thing out and restage it. COMMISSIONER HALL: Gotcha. And then lastly, when we do dredge, is there a definite positive result for the Seagate community, or does that result degrade over time? MR. DORRILL: The entire system will degrade over time, again, depending on wave heights and prevailing winds. As soon as we reopen the pass, the difference between low tide and high tide can be eight-tenths to a foot. That's a lot of saltwater that will, you know, fan out through the estuary there. And dilution is a wonderful thing when it comes to water quality, because the more saltwater you get in, the more it improves the overall measurable things, whether it's nitrogen, phosphorus, dissolved oxygen, E. coli, copper. Those are the big four things that we monitor also on an annual basis and produce water-quality reports. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, Neil. I'm glad you got this picture up because I had a few questions about it. I know with our chart, permitting the March 4, 2025 Page 14 A, B, and C sections, and in reality in this picture, it only goes up to where, I think, the one, two -- the third bend, basically, in that photograph. Have you ever or at any point do you remember -- because there's a manmade structure which was down by the park which is the bridge. That bridge is over the main body of the Outer Clam Bay portion, which is a large body of water that's a part of this system. Even in this picture, you can see -- this is just, what, a couple weeks ago -- you can see that it looks like a buildup of sand in front of that manmade structure. Do you ever get in there and clear that out to help the rise and fall of the actual tide in the large body of the Outer Clam Bay Pass? MR. DORRILL: We do not in the vicinity of the bridge, and the primary reason for that is -- you can actually see some areas of dry sand in that picture, and I will tell you that as it makes the 90-degree turn to the south, that's really the last viable tidal flat that has seagrass in it. Seagrass is another parameter that's important to the health of the overall system, so we don't tend to dredge in there because it is adjacent to what is sort of the last viable seagrass flat that is there. We met with the residents of the city several months ago and made them aware that we were going to do a bathymetric survey and that we were going to extend the survey south of Section C all the way to, essentially, where the sea kayak launching area is. And we just got the results of that, and they show that, honestly, there has been little change in shoaling or the areas of elevation south of there. I can have Dr. Dabees speak to that. I don't even know if we've shared the results with Seagate and Naples Cay yet, but we had the entire system bathymetrically surveyed -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: South of the bridge? MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir. All the way down to where the March 4, 2025 Page 15 resident sea kayak launching area is there adjacent to your parking lot. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So that elevation south of the bridge has not changed? MR. DORRILL: No. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But let's say the level of water passing before the bridge, has that changed? Depth of water, I guess. MR. DORRILL: We have both the last entire survey and the one that was just done in -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Dorrill, if you could use the microphone, that will -- MR. DORRILL: Yeah, sorry. We have both the last entire survey of the system and also have just received the analysis of the new entire bathymetric survey that was done in December. DR. DABEES: For the record, Mohammed Dabees, project engineer. I'm vice president of Humiston & Moore Engineers. The section between where we end the dredging in Section C or around the bend was only dredged once when the first management plan was implemented. So the dredging extended from Clam Pass all the way, which was Cut 4 to Outer Clam Bay, and then we had three cuts between inner and upper bay in 1999. Those sections were made primarily to make sure that we have adequate flushing throughout the mangrove forest. And from the monitoring the years after, the area of dynamics and main changes were limited, as Neil indicated, to the mouth of the inlet in Section B and to some extent Section C. When -- and also when we modified the permit in 2014, we had to kind of reduce Section C by 50 feet to accommodate buffers to viable seagrass habitat which is a protected resource. So the -- as far as -- the current survey that we completed March 4, 2025 Page 16 indicates that we don't have significant or measurable change over the past seven years from the last time we surveyed Outer Clam Bay. The survey is basically showing, for the most part, everything is stable, and I have the results in -- if the discussion would necessitate that we look over them. But there are areas where the shoals shift. And as far as flow, while -- that shift might be critical to just how the shape or size of a shoal is, but it is not as far as flow, because the flow kind of meanders around the shoals. So what we look at in our assessment is through any critical section, what's the cross-sectional area of flow? And if we find restrictions, that's when we recommend intervention. And lastly, as Neil indicated, this system has, I would say, an unparallel system of monitoring that does not really exist in any inlet that I've worked on, and I've worked on almost all the inlets of Southwest and Central Florida, because we have real-time monitoring. We look at the tide ratios almost on a daily basis at our end, and we report it to the -- to Pelican Bay Service District once -- Division, sorry -- once a month. And when we see deficiencies or critical nature of the flow, we take action in additional physical monitoring and then recommendations for dredging. So we have an early sensing system, and we also have physical monitoring that is done at six months to one year to allow us to make sure that the system remains functional. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You agree with Neil that the best way for a healthy bay is the natural flow and inflow of natural saltwater from the gulf into it during a normal tide cycle? Do you agree with him on that? DR. DABEES: Yes. That's the main premise of the management plan is that we need to maintain the flow that is necessary to, number one, provide the vital needs for the March 4, 2025 Page 17 environmental system because it is an NRPA, or a natural protected system, and its main directive or objective is the ecology of the system. We have a comprehensive monitoring system that monitors the -- all the environmental resources -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So you -- out of everything you've been saying, so basically you're saying that the people that live adjacent to Outer Clam Bay, the people that live right on it, within feet of it, like the city residents to the south, they shouldn't have noticed any change in the bay according to what you're monitoring and saying, that -- you haven't noticed anything that's changed over this last several decades or few decades? DR. DABEES: No. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is when we dredge -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So there is a problem, then? DR. DABEES: There are problems throughout the system when you have the intensity of storms that we get. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. DR. DABEES: And the -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But that's on us human beings to work that out and fix it, correct? DR. DABEES: To the extent that we can, because there are -- every system has an -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Have you guys ever applied for a navigational dredging permit? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal, if you would, just to help me out a little bit, he's in the middle of answering that question. I'd like to -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He was talking a lot, and I was just trying to get to where -- the easy simple parts of it. Either the bay's healthy or not, and do we have a way to fix it. March 4, 2025 Page 18 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. I was -- I just wanted to hear the answer to his -- you've asked some great questions. I'd just like maybe to hear his full answers. DR. DABEES: So every system equilibrates to the balance of the forces that are making it. So if you dig a deep hole that doesn't current to keep it open, it will shoal right away. And the more you dig, the faster it will fill in. So by that token, if we dredge Clam Pass bigger and wider and deeper, it would be to the detriment of the system. We have to dredge it to what balances with the volume of water that can go in and out of the system. And even right after we dredge, it can never stay the way we just dredged it, because by nature, when you have a backwater and an open water with an inlet connecting it, you have to have the formation of flood shoals, which is on the landward side of the inlet, and ebb shoals on the seaward of the system. When you first dredge it, as Neil indicated, you will have almost synonymous tide range inside as much as in the gulf, but that is not sustainable because it's going to start to reach that equilibrium, and we monitor that equilibrium. And once we audit the critical threshold, we continue to monitor it, and when it crosses it, that's when we recommend dredging. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But, once again, you're an engineer, so you understand the concept of volume -- DR. DABEES: Yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- right? So the largest volume of this whole system is the outer bay -- DR. DABEES: Yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- right? So we have the most narrow area just to the north of the large part of the bay which is the manmade structure, which is the bridge. March 4, 2025 Page 19 And all I'm saying is the dredging always ends at that third bend. We never really go down and see how much restrictions, how much actual flow to give the volume, the largest volume the ability to rise and fall naturally. And I mean, is there a way to fix that? I guess that's all I'm asking. DR. DABEES: So I can tell you that we have two gauges, one by Section C and one inside Outer Clam Bay, and we measure the flow. And when we measure the flow in these two, they are almost the exact same. It diminishes between the gulf and the one in Section C because most of the shoaling is in that section. But between Marker 14 and Marker 4, these two are almost synonymous, and we monitor that on daily and monthly and yearly basis. If we see deficiency between 4 in Outer Clam Bay and 14, that means there is a clog in between, and there is none. Even the consultant that Seagate commissioned acknowledged that fact that we do not have flow deficiency in that section as far as flow. Because what I'm saying is you could see a shoal, but the water finds its way around that shoal. And I look at the entire cross-sectional area, and if it's reduced, then that is critical, but if it's just shifted from here to there and it's still the same cross-sectional area, the same amount of flow is getting through. MR. DORRILL: Let's see if there are any questions. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Are you telling me I'm done? MR. DORRILL: No. I said see if you had other questions. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I had one, but Commissioner Saunders had told me not to ask it yet. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, no, no. I just -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm going to ask it again. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, go ahead. No, all I'm suggesting -- all I was suggesting is that you were asking great questions, but he wasn't able to complete his answer. And I was just March 4, 2025 Page 20 asking to let him do that because it was interesting. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I had asked one, but he never got back to it, but I want to ask it again. Have you ever applied for a navigational dredging permit? DR. DABEES: The -- to my understanding, during the 25 years that I've been working on Clam Pass, navigation is not one of the objectives of Clam Pass. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Is it -- because I know you guys have -- well, it's a natural body of water. DR. DABEES: There are many natural bodies of water throughout the state that are maintained for hydraulic efficiency and health of the system and are not navigational connections, and if people navigate through them, it's at their own risk. But there is also the declaration or the fact that this is declared a NRPA, which means the priority is to the health of the system. When you have a navigation inlet, especially commercial navigation inlets, those become more of a public interest at a level that requires -- that allows for environmental impacts. In this case, it's the other way around. It's an environmental protected system that the priorities should be to the health of the mangrove and the ecosystem. And from the environmental studies that were done in 1999 and then in 2014 and then current monitoring, we -- as engineering and as physical change, we follow the lead of the environmental needs, and then we work with the community on the recreational benefits that can be accommodated within the ecosystem, similar to if it's a national park or any protected body of water. You just have to allow recreational benefits that does not cause detrimental impacts to the system. And as Neil indicated that path, that section between end of Section C to the bridge, the shoulders of that natural channel is where all the documented seagrasses in the system have been, and the shoal March 4, 2025 Page 21 that you see from the bridge is actually the place where we have the most observable seagrasses to date. So it is just -- even if we want to and we go to the agencies, they will say, "Thou shall not impact one blade of seagrasses," and that is a very high burden to clear with the environmental agencies. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So, I mean, long story short -- because the way it's categorized and the way it has been for several decades of the ecological side of it, that you wouldn't be able to get a navigational permit through that section anyways, right? I mean, is that the answer? I'm just -- MR. DORRILL: Over the course of 25 years, there was one attempt to conduct what I would -- to your point, would have been a navigational project with navigational markers similar to intercoastal type markers for boating -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm leaning more towards -- MR. DORRILL: -- that was not approved. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- figuring out a way to get permitting more to help the water flow in and out. I was not so much saying to navigate, but in reality navigational permits sometimes are easier than getting the other permits. I was just asking if that's a possibility, and from your answer it sounds like it's not because of that seagrass section south of C. Does that sound right? DR. DABEES: And the nee -- since the flow doesn't show that there is a deficiency in flow between the back section of the Clam Pass and Outer Clam Bay. I would say most of the deficiency in the flow is in the upper bays. Most of our mangrove die-off’s are in the upper bays, other than storm impacts. Because Outer Clam Bay has very robust tidal flow that is made possible by us maintaining Clam Pass. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So my last question: Do you March 4, 2025 Page 22 think since, let's say, Ian -- because we've probably -- this is probably the most active surge storm seasons we've had the past several years, because we've been putting a lot more manmade sand in these areas, do you think that's hampering some of this or exacerbating or speeding up the process of this sand flowing back in? Because typically we're not putting that much loose silica sand around the mouth of this thing, you know, over the years because now all of a sudden we've had several events that we've had to add a lot more sand that's probably not fixed well to the ground to begin with. So it does flow a lot easier, almost like silt, in and out of the bay. Do you think that may have been adding to why we're seeing maybe a little bit more recently than in the past? DR. DABEES: Hurricane Ian and the storms that followed Hurricane Ian have impacted the entire coastline from Marco Island to Clearwater in Pinellas County, and none is more than what you see in that picture if you see the extent of the sand intrusion into the vegetation. So our most impact is actually we lost a fringe of mangroves that could be 50- to 100-foot wide throughout the system from the sand intrusion from the coastal side. In the interior side -- and as Neil indicated, we just completed a survey of Outer Clam Bay, and that survey shows no significant change with the exception of very small migration of shoals between the -- this current 2025 survey and 2017 survey. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I guess what I'm trying to say is hopefully we don't get hit with some more storms here over the next decade like that and that it should start correcting itself because we'll get ahead of it with the last dredging project I think you just completed. Hopefully we'll see some change in the outer bay pass -- or outer bay. DR. DABEES: Yeah. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. Thank you. Thank March 4, 2025 Page 23 you, guys. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Neil, I just had one question. When you were going through your presentation, did I hear you right where you said when we're moving around the sand and doing dredging your quote -- and it was mixed in with, you know, your presentation -- was sometimes we run out of places to put the excessive sand that we have; is that -- is that a case? MR. DORRILL: That's why we amended the permit to extend the fill templates for that sand. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean -- and this is just me thinking out loud. I mean, I work very closely with Andy in Coastal Zone Management, and in my district we're buying sand. You know, we have places that were totally eroded; Cape Marco and lots of other places that even the doctor's aware of, and he's educated me, and groups of people saying, hey, sometimes, you know, moving sand from Point A to Point B -- you know, the terminology I always say is the juice isn't worth the squeeze, you know, by the time you or -- or the sand isn't of the quality, you know. It has different things in it. But I just wanted to confirm, do we have good sand that we're dumping in places or we're getting rid of that we could be recycling and using in other places that would make sense? And maybe it's for the doc. Maybe it's for you. Andy's sitting in the back. I just know that we're buying a lot of sand and trucking a lot of it into my district. You know, when I just caught that little phrase of, "Wow, sometimes we're running out of places to put it," it's like, well, we might want to put it somewhere else, if it's feasible. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. MR. DORRILL: It's a good -- it's a good problem to have. On the level of magnitude, it's probably less than a thousand cubic March 4, 2025 Page 24 yards -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, okay. MR. DORRILL: -- which in Andy's world is nothing. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Nothing. Yeah. Okay. That's -- I just wanted to get that clear. Thank you, sir. DR. DABEES: I'll just add to that clarification -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You need to get on the microphone. DR. DABEES: -- what we did is that we run out of space in the permitted templated. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I gotcha. DR. DABEES: So we expanded the template to kind of supplement areas where truck haul is the main source. So it's actually -- the area where we expanded it, adding dune and berm in areas that typically would get sand through truck hauls. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Got it. Makes sense. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I'm, again, going to urge the speakers to get closer to the microphone so everyone can hear. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir. Good morning. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I want to blame those two nice people there for my tardiness this morning. They were in the way for me to get in the parking lot, and that's the reason I was late. It didn't have anything to do with us not building any roads. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I want to thank both of them for trying to block his entry. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You followed our direction perfectly. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I wish you more success next March 4, 2025 Page 25 time. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Dorrill, would you go to a previous map that you showed where -- upper, lower, middle Clam Bay was on your -- on your -- oh, you've got to get your lady to help you with the buttons. Okay. That one right there. MR. DORRILL: Upper, inner, and outer. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sir? MR. DORRILL: Upper, inner, and outer north to south. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Upper, inner, and outer. Are we still -- because I notice all of our maps in the pictures that I'm seeing have the upper portion cut off. Are we still experiencing loss of mangroves in that upper? MR. DORRILL: I think that we have experienced a lot of regrowth. And, Jeremy, if you don't mind -- because he's just submitted the annual report. Jeremy Sterk is the one who not only does the monitoring, but their crews are the ones that are maintaining those hand-dug channels there. He can speak maybe a little more in terms of the acreage and things of that nature. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MR. STERK: Sure. For the record, Jeremy Sterk, EarthTech Environmental. Yeah. We've been monitoring the mangroves since about 2015, my company. And, you know, obviously, with the storms that we've seen since Ian and Irma to begin with, and Ian, there's been a lot of impacts to the mangrove system, external impacts. The majority of the stress to mangroves that we've had have been in the north of the system. Generally, they're recovering. You know, we usually see March 4, 2025 Page 26 immediately after a storm like Irma or Ian there's -- the first monitoring event is about six months later. We typically see a decline in the scoring that we give the mangroves. And then usually at about the year point we see a rebound. And that's even what we've seen even after the storms last year. We're seeing the mangroves recover. Now, that's not to say that they don't have a long way to go, but they're very resilient. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. Thank you. I'm not done by any stretch, Mr. Chair. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not done by any stretch. That was my lead-in question to get to where -- to get to where I'm going next. MR. DORRILL: There was an area in Bay Colony adjacent to what is known -- the dune swale, which is a natural drainage feature. Hurricane Ian overwashed the dune, and as Mohamed said, that sand has pushed inland by about 150 feet. Some of the mangroves that are in the dune swale area are now under six to eight feet of sand and are expected to die. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You can -- you can see just from this picture to the last picture that you had up that that 100- to 150-foot swath has destroyed those mangroves inside, almost like a little barrier of mangroves, and then there's a swath in there where the sand got pushed up. And the reality of this is, this entire system is behind at all. The entire system has silted in. I mean, you actually alleged that some of the channels in the -- in the upper Clam Bay have to be hand dug, my goodness. And we also know that this is a very complex subject. I mean, there are archaeological sites, as you've already mentioned early on. I don't know -- and I haven't seen a picture as to necessarily where they are, but it's really not a part of this discussion. March 4, 2025 Page 27 Relatively speaking we have -- we have short-term circumstances, and that's the renewal of the existing permit, the modification of where we can then, in fact, disperse; and then we have a long-term issue with how we're doing and what we're doing and what we have been doing for 25 years-plus. I have lived here, Mr. Dorrill, almost as long as you, and I recall when the folks that lived in Seagate had deepwater access. There was navigability out of Seagate. I think -- I'm not an expert, but I think that seagrass -- thou shalt not destroy seagrass has to have certain elevations of sand underneath it so that it has proper sunlight for it to, in fact, grow. And so when the -- when the -- when continuous dredging isn't effectuated, seagrass develops, and so therefore, then, thou shalt not destroy the seagrass. And so then an additional bureaucratic restriction comes online that then, in turn, impacts the entire health of the system with regard to the necessary flush so that we have good mangrove growth all the way through the system. If we don't have proper flush with the normal tidal flows -- storms are going to come and go. We all know that. We became very -- Collier County became very apathetic to storm and surge associated with the storms because the last surge event we had was 1960, before you were born. Pretty close. And so we really didn't have any kind of a surge event that actually transpired. And then what we ultimately learned, even in advance of Ian, which was the largest storm surge event that our community had, we had a converse impact with Irma with 30-plus inches of rainfall that happened on the inland side and, conversely, we couldn't get the freshwater off our people from the outside. And so back to Commissioner Kowal's discussion with regard to the dredging that's, in fact, necessary. I would like for us to holistically view the whole system for, ultimately, to get to the -- and, March 4, 2025 Page 28 again, it's going to come and go. You know the minute you dredge -- I'm a dredger. But the minute you dredge, it begins to silt back in. Over time, that natural flush that comes every 12 hours with our tidal flows will allow for the health of the entire system to be -- to be ultimately main [sic] , have the necessary saltwater flush that the mangroves, in fact, need in order to survive and be healthy, and have the whole system work for the betterment of the environment at the same time. My -- I guess my question, it comes back around to, have we done any exploration with regard to the history and the silting of the Outer Clam Bay? Because if I'm not mistaken, there are culverts that go underneath Seagate Drive that allow for additional flush, theoretically, in and out of the northern end of Venetian Bay. Am I correct with that? MR. DORRILL: Correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If I remember that. So I think the -- this is just me looking at the entire system for quite some time. I think that we have to take -- certainly take care of the short-term circumstances with the expiration of the upcoming permit and its modification so we have a place to put the sand, but I think a longer, more holistic plan needs to be developed for the entire system. What we have been doing, personally -- and I've been watching it for eight years as a commissioner. I've been watching it for 40 years -- 44 years that I've lived in Collier County. We -- that entire system has -- hasn't been managed properly. There has been a struggle between recreational uses, and people that kayak don't want the motorboats, and the people that have motorboats don't want the kayaks, and then -- and by the way, the compliment is the positive impact that the foundation has had with human runoff. I mean, you folks have done an amazing job to clean the freshwater that March 4, 2025 Page 29 inevitably ends up in this estuary. But I think we really need to work towards a holistic approach on the long-term process with regard to the entire system. MR. DORRILL: The first thing that you said -- and the $10 word for that is eutrophication. And over time, wetland systems will become eutrophic, meaning that, you know, sediment comes in, and as a result of that, the types of vegetation that it can sustain evolve over time, as systems become eutrophic. And so I hear you. And I think that's some of what we are experiencing and attempting to manage in upper reaches of the system by maintaining those hand-dug channels in order to get the freshwater out of there and away from the important, you know, roots of the mangroves. But the other element -- and there needs to be, perhaps, some discussion at some point. The Naples Cay and Seagate communities are not in our taxing district, and they are not in the Natural Resource Protection Area. My understanding is that those canals have a large amount of sediment in them. Water quality is an issue there. I don't believe that there's been any maintenance of those canals or anything taken into context with work that we're doing to the north of there. And so I mean, if we're going to look at the entire system -- and I think they're going to share more about their feelings and plans and desires in just a few minutes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm sure that they will. But there again, that needs to be encompassed in the entire system study, the water quality that's coming out of the southern end that's outside of the NRPA as well as what you folks have going on within the -- within the NRPA area. MR. DORRILL: And I will also submit to you that the water quality in the north end of Park Shore, in Doctors Bay, is overall worse because of the urban environment that it is within than the natural system that is the -- the protection area. March 4, 2025 Page 30 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I would concur with that statement as well, sir. DR. DABEES: And if we can add to this. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Excuse me. Excuse me. Hang on just a second. If you're going to speak, that's fine, but I'm going to insist that you use the microphone. DR. DABEES: Yeah. In adding to this, the system in Moorings Bay and Doctors Pass have almost synonymous tide fluctuation because it's maintained and jettied. So the flushing is not the only answer to water quality. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't disagree with that either. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, are you finished now or -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Relatively speaking, yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I just have one or two quick questions, then we'll get back to Commissioner Hall. In terms of the outer bay, from all of the diagrams and everything you've said, it sounds like the health of the mangroves has been pretty consistently good. But I want to hear on the record, what is the condition of the mangroves in the Outer Clam Bay as well as Inner Clam Bay? Are there areas where it's becoming degraded? What's the condition of those? MR. DORRILL: There are some new areas that are in your park that are showing stress from high-resolution aerial photography, and we intend to have that monitored as part of this year's -- this fiscal year's cycle. We committed to that when we met with the Seagate. It's sort of midway in the park on the east side, obviously, in the mangrove there. There are some new mangrove areas that are stressed at the regional park. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. And at this point you don't March 4, 2025 Page 31 know what's causing that stress, but you're going to evaluate that? MR. DORRILL: Yes. I presume that it is the same, and they don't have the hand-dug channels that were engineered to help drain that area the way that they were in the north. There's some, but there's not a lot. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How big an area is that? MR. DORRILL: Acreage wise? Maybe two acres, but it's new. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: So I've just got a question. I am more familiar with handling and managing water in a terrace in a cotton field than I am this. So I'm just going to throw something out. I just want to know if there's a possibility or if there's a no possibility or if it's taboo. But on this map, the one that you handed us, there's a little inlet in that -- in the Clam Bay that gets towards -- there's a little skinny spot of mangroves. So my thought was, what would happen if you open that and allowed, like, another inlet? MR. DORRILL: It would -- short answer, there would be less water to go out the main inlet that would accelerate the shoaling and the types of performance concerns that we're concerned about. It's a good question, though. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Troy, do we have some registered speakers? MR. MILLER: We do, sir. We have seven registered -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, I'm sorry. Commissioner McDaniel, you had something else before we get to the speakers? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just have one statement, and the statement it similar to what Commissioner Kowal said. Width, breadth, and depth creates volume. Remember that as you're going forward. Creation of volume within the entire system will help the entire system both north, south, east, and west. March 4, 2025 Page 32 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. For our speakers, if you were -- we limit our speakers to three minutes. We'll be a little bit flexible, if you've got some technical data, and I would ask that you not be repetitive. Troy. MR. MILLER: Yeah. Mr. Chair, we traditionally do in-room speakers first, but the group from Clam Bay have asked that we let their member on Zoom go first -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. MR. MILLER: -- as he wants to lead off. Patrick Wack. Patrick, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time. There you go. Patrick, you have three minutes, sir. MR. WACK: I'll be less than that. Thanks for your time. Patrick Wack, president of the Seagate Association in Naples. I'm joined by many members of our community at Naples Cay. As you know, Clam Bay is our backyard, and thank you for organizing this. It's also a valuable county resource. I think to us the fundamental issue is our communities have no representation with regard to the water quality, ecological health of the dredging of the bay. You all know what happened in 2016. Essentially, control was given to Pelican Bay. We're having this meeting because we've been very frustrated along a lot of the elements of it and feeling like we're not being heard. In addition, as you know, most of the activities are reimbursed by the county. I guess the only analogy is we're like farmers down the stream where somebody else controls the water flow. We're concerned with the water quality, which is impaired, the declining ecological health. In fact, the latest environmental report showed basically no seagrass in the management of these issues. In fact, a Pelican Bay Services Division board member March 4, 2025 Page 33 described the latest environmental report is sobering. As you know, we spent our own money to start an alternative engineering analysis. We'll have another speaker which will get into some of these suggestions. You know, I'm not going to repeat this too much, but we all know the bay is shallow. And, you know in 2022, when, during a dredging operation, there was an unauthorized land bridge, our water flow was shut off for six weeks, and very detrimental. Listen, our goal today is not to, you know, suggest overly specific environmental solutions. You know, it's very complicated. There's mangrove maintenance, dredging, dune restoration, the use of fertilizers, reclaimed irrigation water that all require, I think, per Commissioner McDaniel's comment, a fresh look. And we feel this so strongly this look requires the equal representation for all stakeholders including, to some degree, the county. Therefore, we ask the following: That there's the creation of a Clam Bay advisory committee to oversee and advise the county on all issues related to the bay's water quality, ecological health, and dredging. We just believe this is fair. It brings more brain power to this complex problem in the hopes of finding a solution to this, you know, treasured piece of the real estate, and, you know, our backyard. So we just feel very strongly that almost more than anything that's the fundamental issue here. So thank you for your time. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Katherine Cunningham. She'll be followed by Susan DeVoe. MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning. Thank you for your time and attention to this issue. I just wanted to pick up on Patrick's description of this as our backyard. It's literally our backyard. We bought our home in Seagate 14 years ago. We've lived there most of that time. We did March 4, 2025 Page 34 lose our home in Hurricane Ian, so we've been out of our house for the past two and a half years. And, quite honestly, we can't wait to come back, and the reason that we can't wait to come back is this is a beautiful place. This backyard, this environmentally protected area is absolutely beautiful, and we can't wait to come back. We're in the middle of rebuilding our home. We hope it will be finished this year. We have a long -- we have a long time span living here. We're full-time residents. We're really looking forward to having this be our backyard. I think all of us really think that the most important part is protecting the health and the well-being of this environmental system. We do also use the bay. We use it in all kinds of different ways. When we first bought our home 14 years ago, we had a kayak, and we had a small Boston Whaler. We've since -- long since sold the Whaler, sold the kayak. We picked up a small fishing boat from a neighbor who gave us this little plastic boat that our kids learned to drive when they were little; 5-horsepower motor. We've also had Sea-Doos. We currently have a couple of paddleboards, and we have a 23-foot Panga motorboat. So we use the bay in all of these ways, and we don't see it as a fight between the use for navigation and the environment. We think all of these uses are important. We want to -- we all love the bay. I think our neighbors in Pelican Bay love this bay as well. I've got family members, friends, clients. My office is in Pelican Bay. I think we all have an interest in protecting it and making it better in the future. So thank you. Thank you for your attention. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Susan DeVoe. She'll be followed by JoAnn Jany. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on. Ms. Cunningham, we March 4, 2025 Page 35 have -- a commissioner has a question. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Ma'am, can I just ask you a quick question? I've only talked to a few people -- more than a few, but I've got you right in front of me here. You say, you know, you lost your house in Ian, and you're rebuilding it. Just out of my own curiosity and education, what changes did you make to your new house, you know, compared to the damage? Because, you know, some people aren't making many changes, and it's like, okay, this is going to happen again. But I have a feeling you probably didn't do that. I can tell just by your presentation. Just give me the short version, and it's more for my own, you know, education as to, you know, people that got hit hard and then had to totally rebuild like you did. What's different? I mean, was your house totally gone or you had a little bit of the structure left and now you've, you know, been sort of, you know, rebuilding what was left? MS. CUNNINGHAM: We had nearly five feet of water in our home. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. MS. CUNNINGHAM: It was an original 1969 ranch house. It was about 2,800 square feet. It was basically destroyed. The structure was still there. My husband and I did have a conversation about whether we could save it. We decided not to do that because of the risk it would happen again. So the number-one change we made, you could probably guess. We elevated it. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Elevation. MS. CUNNINGHAM: So it used to be about six feet above sea level. It's now 14 feet above sea level. One issue that we did run into is in trying to elevate the garage. There are limits in how much you can elevate the garage, and we were able to elevate a couple of feet. It would be helpful if we could March 4, 2025 Page 36 elevate more. With the home, quite honestly, we would have gone higher than 14 feet, but we hit the ceiling. So that -- yeah, we did. We built it as high as we could and, quite honestly, it seems to me it would be nice if we could go higher. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Any big insurance nightmares, FEMA, anything, you know, short version, just to get it directly from -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's move on. Let's move on. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'd like to hear her answer. MS. CUNNINGHAM: Well, I'd love to very quickly answer this. Lori Bessano (phonetic) is the best insurance agent in the world, and she is great. We are -- our claim was filed while the storm was happening. We got full value on our claim without any fight or hassle. That said, it's about 10 percent of what we needed to rebuild. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Can we move on now, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. Thank you, ma'am. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's move on to the topic. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Suzanne DeVoe. She'll be followed by JoAnn Jany. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's part of the topic. MS. DeVOE: All right. Hi. I'm Susan DeVoe. I'm a Seagate board member. We've already discussed, for a small inlet, it's important to have optimal dredging to promote the flushing. Even small improvements can make a big difference. On average, the current dredging only achieved 60 percent of the theoretical maximal flow. Other approaches might increase this. To evaluate this, we spent a significant sum of our own money on March 4, 2025 Page 37 independent analysis. We hired Taylor Engineering to examine historical data and meet with Pelican Bay's engineer. As a result, they're making three recommendations. So Taylor is making three recommendations: That there should be a planned annual dredge before turtle nesting season, which is May 1st. The current scheme has a variable time frame of 12 to 24 months, and it's more reactive, and it often runs into delays, as we are experiencing now. Delays increase the risk of closure and have resulted in unnecessary periods of reduced flow. The dredge should be consistent throughout the entire allowable area. Recently it's been limited to about 50 percent or less of the inlet. And number three, there should be a computer modeling of the alternate dredging configurations. This is very standard and, to our knowledge, has never been done. This would cost approximately $75,000. Our goal would be to find a plan to allow more tidal flow. For sure there are complexities with each of these items which go beyond the scope of this meeting; however, for the health of the system, we believe that our suggestions should and -- should be thoroughly and independently evaluated in parallel with the March 2026 permit renewal. So we've been able to be involved in several of the Pelican Bay Services Division meetings. We brought this up several times, and it -- it feels like everything runs in slow motion. So it was brought up last, I think it was last November, that we were exploring the dredge, and then it was put off and put off and put off, and now we are into turtle nesting season. So now it's going to be in November. My concern is in waiting for this kind of behemoth process to keep moving forward, mangroves have suffered and are dying, as several of us discussed, and I think that -- I think it was -- was it you, March 4, 2025 Page 38 Mr. Saunders, that brought up -- or Mr. Hall that brought up what would happen if we just let them all die, and there would be a breach there. You know, half of me says, "Great, let's do it," because then I've got, you know, gulf property. But it's not the right thing to do, because as we all know that -- I think the number one thing is the mangrove health in that they're carbon eaters and that they're also the infrastructure in keeping the sand where it's supposed to be and also a habitat for young wildlife. And that's all I have to say today. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is JoAnn Jany. She'll be followed by Scott Schultz. MS. JANY: Good morning. I'm JoAnn Jany from Naples Cay. As a Florida Master Naturalist and a volunteer for Collier County Parks and Recreation, I spend almost every day in Clam Pass Park. In addition to our community's lack of say in matters relative to my backyard, I'm very concerned about the well-documented water quality and ecological issues. Although, unfortunately, the water quality of many estuaries in Southwest Florida are considered impaired, I do not believe that's the reason to continue with business as usual. Furthermore, since 2016, the mangrove and seagrass health in the park has declined, even before the recent hurricanes. The slow degradation of the system has many causes, some natural and others manmade; however, we believe that there needs to be more attention on two aspects. First, controlling excessive nutrient levels entering the system and, two, inadequate flushing of the bay. The former is partially related to the county's use of reclaimed March 4, 2025 Page 39 water for irrigation. For example, Pelican Bay's nutrient levels are multiple times that of Clam Bay. Inadequate flushing is partially due to suboptimal dredging processes. Our engineers have made some recommendations with regard to the dredging. There are additional environmental issues. For example, there's a strip of hurricane-damaged mangroves that in all of Collier County was targeted by the U.S. Army Corps as an area of restoration. If that breaches, the park will become an island, and my fellow homeowners in Naples Cay may be at risk. With the Army Corps study on hold, we've been told that the county and PBSD have a joint responsibility for this damaged area, yet when I inquire about getting plants or dune plantings there to help protect the area, the county -- even the county repetitively don't seem clear about who has responsibility for this. Second example, there are large areas of dying mangroves with standing water that have been trapped in there since Hurricane Ian. I brought this to the attention of the PBSD environmental consultants for the bay and the attention of the PBSD water committee at several meetings last year and the year before. It was finally noted in the last monitoring report as issued a few weeks ago. These mangroves will not likely come back even if the channels are dug out now. It's a fragile system, and it needs more urgent care and response. I do realize that over 500 acres of mangrove areas under the NRPA that -- the PBSD has responsibility for. That's a lot to deal with. But there is only one small area south of Clam Pass inlet on their list of mangrove areas that they regularly monitor, and if it isn't on their radar, it's never going to make it to our mediation list. Maybe the PBSD needs more funding to do the hard work that needs to be done to protect this fragile area, but something needs to happen much sooner than waiting years to address the issues; March 4, 2025 Page 40 otherwise, the cost of restoration will be even more significant as areas continue to deteriorate. In addition to a fundamental issue of fairness, I believe our representation -- a broader representation for our surrounding communities, including perhaps an independent environmental consultant, will produce a better result for the health of this estuary. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Schultz. He'll be followed by John Cross. MR. SCHULTZ: Hello, there. I'm Scott Schultz, 60 Seagate Drive in Naples Cay. I live in Baypointe, specifically the building there. I'm also the chairman of your Collier County Coastal Storm Risk Management Ad Hoc Advisory Committee. And we're sitting on the ice cube now nice and cold and waiting for the Army to come back with more funds. So I'm somewhat familiar with this. I got to meet Mr. Wack, Patrick Wack, in my endeavors as chairman. As I went to meet with 14 of the 18 HOAs throughout Naples and found him to be the most -- one of the most earnest folks that I have dealt with. I am concerned again, though, with the issues that are coming back. My activities in this project began with the first Army Corps project, which people wanted slough gates and walls and all sorts of good stuff. And, you know, I hear about building concrete on the beaches. It sort of scares the daylights out of me. But nonetheless, some folks believe that fortification of a place is possible. Mr. -- Commissioner LoCastro, forts. I think you know a little bit about those. You can't fortify against a storm. I don't believe it's really possible to do that. Hurricane Ian -- I was in the building when that hurricane hit, March 4, 2025 Page 41 and we got more stuff up from the drains, from Clam Bay, and from the canals that hit our building. We didn't get blasted from the ocean. We get blasted from the side, from underneath, and from behind. That's never been remedied, and I'm sure that those pipes haven't been dredged. That all came up and was all sort of human effluent in there, so it's quite a mess. But nonetheless, the ability to put sand back on the beach over concrete and run it at length, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I know folks are scared and folks need protection. But concrete on the beach is something I just -- don't make any sense, in my judgment. But if there is a plan to move forward with Clam Pass and Clay Bay with being some -- a volunteer committee, given the experience I've had the last two and a half years representing you-all, I'd be glad to volunteer to serve on that committee. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John Cross. He'll be followed by Sue Black. MR. CROSS: Hi, thank you. Some of you may know me. I'm the chair of the Planning Advisory Board, City of Naples. I just want to reemphasize one point, and that is that the approach that has been taken is -- with Clam Pass is wait until there's a problem. Wait until -- wait until we have to dredge, then go about the process of applying for a permit, and ultimately dredging, which may -- which takes the better part of a year at least. So you have a situation where Clam Bay is threatened, mangroves are dying. You dredge. Then you wait for Clam Bay to be threatened. Mangroves are dying. You know, a year later you dredge. And we should have a higher standard for maintenance of Clam Bay. We should have -- we should have a -- there should be an annual dredging, and the criteria should be health. The criteria March 4, 2025 Page 42 should be “maintain the health of Clam Bay,” not wait until Clam Bay is threatened. Wait until Clam Bay is in poor condition, and then solve the problem. That's -- that isn't responsible stewardship of a natural resource. And that really is the only point I would like to make. Thank you. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a quick -- before you go, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me, Mr. Chair. I didn't hit my button while he was -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Make it a good question. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make it a good question, I promise. I concur with what you're saying, absolutely. While we're working on the second portion of what you were discussing, which is the long-term plan, work with us to ensure the highest quality of freshwater runoff that's coming out of the northern end of the City of Naples as is possible, please. MR. CROSS: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MR. CROSS: I mean, I would -- and I should add, you know, the City of Naples -- I think the number-one financial priority and municipal priority in the City of Naples is water quality. The city is spending, I believe, about $200 million on the stormwater outfalls and on the cleanup of lakes. The City of Naples is committed to water quality. They realize that the experience of the outdoors, the experience of the beach is foundational to the economy of Collier County. Without it, we're all -- you know, we let this -- if we don't take care of what we have, we're -- you know, tourism is out the window. Real estate values are out the window. It's just -- it's economically -- it's an economic March 4, 2025 Page 43 necessity that we care for what we have. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Your next speaker is Sue Black. She'll be followed on Zoom by your final speaker, Mary McLean Johnson. MS. BLACK: Good morning. Resident of Seagate for 24 years, and I'm just a common sense kind of girl. So if you look at this picture that's currently on the display, you'll see a nice shade of Upper Clam Bay, a nice shade of Inner Clam Bay, and all of a sudden we see Outer Clam Bay. It's a little bit different. It's green. I'm a visual learner. And also what I've told my kids through the years is when you want to get something done, take baby steps. The approach that we're taking right now, disaster, big step; disaster, big step. Why don't we have an annual dredge? That way, if a storm hits, it won't be catastrophic. We will do a dredge -- minor dredge as opposed to getting these big trucks in there, the hydraulic. I'm not sure the science about it. But just watching these machines on the beach, it's just too much for our system. So ever since the storm, the speaker from -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Naples Cay. MS. BLACK: -- Naples Cay, she said that there's a ridge of sand that flew over on Ian. If you guys go back there, there's a ledge now of sand, and all those mangroves in front are dying. So Outer Clam Bay has to be addressed right now. So I'm -- I'm in support of an annual dredge, taking baby steps every year, just take on a little bit, take on a little bit, take on a little bit. That's all I have to say. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your final speaker is Mary McLean Johnson March 4, 2025 Page 44 who is on Zoom. You've been asked to unmute yourself, Mary, if you'll do so at this time. You're unmuted. You have three minutes, ma'am. MS. JOHNSON: Good morning. I am a resident of Pelican Bay for more than 20 years and also a member of the Mangrove Action Group, which is a group of conservationists from Pelican Bay and outside, who are interested in monitoring the health of Clam Bay and the mangroves, and we've been active for the past -- since really the mangrove die-off in the early -- mid 1990s and really stimulated the county and PBSD to institute management of Clam Bay. Since that time, the mangrove die-off which had reached 54 acres was restored under PBSD's first management and permit, and PBSD has continued to manage Clam Bay in a way that is responsible and that takes into consideration the entire ecosystem. It is a holistic approach. And in the past, for example, when the plan was revised in 2014, the planning process was open to the entire community of Collier County, including Seagate, and many people participated in that planning process that led to the current parameters for dredging. I do not think it's correct to say that the PBSD waits until there's a problem, and mangroves are dying and then steps in to dredge. Rather it has established a system of monitoring that carefully considers when the parameters indicate a dredging is needed, and it's timed appropriately. I'm sure everyone realizes that dredging is very, very expensive. So if you dredge before the summer storm season, it's very likely that a hurricane could come and fill in what you've just dredged out. Similarly, about what they're looking at now, a November dredging will help protect the ecosystem throughout the winter when there are also storms. So the timing of the dredging is very carefully considered according to parameters that are constantly monitored. March 4, 2025 Page 45 The latest concern about Outer Clam Bay and the collapse of the dune system is very worrying, and people of Pelican Bay share that concern with people of Naples Cay and Seagate, and we are -- the PBSD is right now considering all the options as to what could be done to restore that stretch. Similarly, they're looking at what could be done to increase the hand-dug channels in Outer Clam Bay that will help release the water and maintain the health of that section. So I -- the Pelican Bay Services Division is a county division. It is open to input from everyone in the county, and I think that Pelican Bay Services Divisions' record of management of Clam Bay is stellar. And a lot this criticism, I think, needs to look at what other water-quality contributors may be coming in. And, you know, Neil Dorrill mentioned some of the issues with dredging perhaps and cleanup being needed in the Seagate canals as a factor affecting water quality. So I urge people to work through the Pelican Bay Services Division. They have an extensive history of successful management of Clam Bay. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Ms. Johnson. MR. MILLER: And that was your final registered speaker. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're in a workshop, so we can't make any decisions, but we can give direction to staff in terms of future meetings. So, Commissioner McDaniel, you're lit up. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just have one quick point that I'd like to make. The nice lady from Naples Cay -- will you put up her picture on the visual, Ms. Amy? That one. The one that's there. And then we were given a copy of a map of a photo from March 4, 2025 Page 46 19 -- yeah, it was 2018. March 19th of 2018. And I just want to show the strip of mangroves that goes north from Naples Cay that was there in 2018 that is not now. And so, therefore, in lies why we're here today and the conversations that we're having going forward. I mean, restoration of mangroves is really nice, but we can't control what Mother Nature's going to, in fact, hand us on a regular basis. So -- and I really appreciate the comments that came with regard to baby steps. Consistency with regard to our management efforts, our dredging efforts, and what we're here, in fact, doing all the way across the board. There's no argument that PBSD has done an amazing job with the monitoring efforts with what, in fact, is transpiring. We need to know from you -- and I'm looking at you, Mr. Dorrill. I know you're hiding right now. But we need to know from you what we can do to help you with regard to these steps along the way for the overall health of the overall -- of the entire system, not just -- not just upper, lower, inner, all of that. MR. DORRILL: No, I think going back to some of my opening comments, I think the most important thing that we need to do is to renew the existing permits but then commit ourselves to evaluate reasonable amendments and to rethink some of the engineering or at least investigate it. This is an oversimplification. But the reason that we don't dredge it every year is the same reason that I don't replace the tires on my car every year. It's not warranted. And there's a huge difference between having a desire and having the ability to get permits to do it that are tied to the management plan that is in place. And it is -- it's just a time-consuming thing. We have already committed to do the full March 4, 2025 Page 47 bathymetric survey and provide that to Seagate. We've already committed to evaluate areas of concern following Ian of mangrove die-off in your regional park. We are the entity who's got a proven track record of being able to reclaim and regrow mangroves. I can make a really good argument, though, that the county's General Fund needs to help contribute some money, or the Unincorporated Area General Fund, and not the people of Pelican Bay when it comes to restoring or reclaiming the regional park that is there. That's kind of a detail to work out with the County Manager and see what she prefers. So kind of a three-part process. But the third element -- first element it to get the permit. Second element is to evaluate amendments to the permit long term for the next 15 years. Area No. 3, though, is to also evaluate what, if anything, the city is going to do with the Seagate drainage system, because, frankly, the stormwater system and the street stormwater system are a first generation shotgun discharge straight into the canals. There's no water retention. There are no water detention facilities. And so to a certain extent, the sediment and the water-quality issues within the south end of what we're talking about are because they were built in the 1960s at the same time that they were dredging and filling. And so when it rains, the water goes straight to the canal and thus the problem. And I think that the people in Pelican Bay have a 40-year history of taxing themselves to provide world-class amenities and, in particular, have been good stewards of the system. So I think there's kind of three tasks going forward, and that would be our recommendations. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. I just have two questions. I'm not 100 percent sure, but where's the majority of the funding source come from for the actual dredging March 4, 2025 Page 48 process itself? MR. DORRILL: It all comes from tourist taxes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. All right. And I guess the second question, I'm just -- I'm going to try to reapproach, because it just piqued when Commissioner Hall had asked the question about that. I think it's the area at R43. And if you look at this, it almost looks like at one point, maybe Mother Nature at one point, that was a natural flow in and out because of the way that is saddled, because evidently that's a deeper part in the outer bay. You know, it's like a V shape right at 43 -- or 43. MR. DORRILL: My understanding is there was never one there, but there was -- if you look at the inlet on that same flow, look at the actual inlet, just east of the inlet is sort of a little mangrove peninsula. At one time in the last 15 years, there was a second channel that fed and went down to Outer Clam Bay. It sort of bypassed Section B and Section C. As soon as you got inside the inlet, it made a hard right. And you can see, it's still there, but it has filled in partially, and that's one of those things that I'm talking about long-term that needs to evaluate. That contributed a source of incoming saltwater that -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. MR. DORRILL: -- was more apt to end up in Outer Clam Bay and in the south end of the system. And we've got aerial records of that that would be evaluated at that time. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because we all know -- well, your own expert said that from Point A to Point B, our flow doesn't change much, right? MR. DORRILL: Right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So we know that. So that being a second source of saltwater coming in, it may be a healthy thing for it if that is a possibility in the future. March 4, 2025 Page 49 MR. DORRILL: And historic. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Historic. MR. DORRILL: Because at the end of the day, I've got to convince the agencies that what we're doing is not altering a system without some historic reference to be able to point to benefits. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I was just curious because just -- if you look at that design and the way it jet -- it Vs into the actual mangroves -- and there's not much room, even in that newer picture. It's pretty much right up onto the beach. I like to use little anecdotes, too, and I liked your tire one. But you know, the reality is, if you put an extra 60,000 miles on your car that year, you might want to change your tires. Mother Nature's not stagnant. She's fluid. From year to year she changes. So just, you know, food for thought. MR. DORRILL: I put the tires on my wife's car before I put them on my own car. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have to get over the changing the tire thing. Forgive me one second. Historically is what we need to be talking about, Mr. Dorrill. Our -- you know as well as I do -- and I said it at the beginning of this -- Seagate used to have deepwater access for all of those homes that are up in there. It's no longer there. We have to look at the history with regard to it. We have to look at the seagrass that's been created by that fancy word you used. I think my word was -- I had a different word before. But you used a fancy word for the creation of seagrass that is there now that thou shalt no longer destroy. Has there been any exploration in an MSTU for the northern portion of the city with regard to contribution for water quality that's coming out of that particular area, for the substandard drainage March 4, 2025 Page 50 system that's coming out of that area, with regard to the freshwater runoff that's coming in? Because that has an impact on the sea -- thou shalt not harm the seagrass, but also if you're -- if you're putting high nutrient-loaded water coming in off of -- off of the land, that's going to have as large, if not a larger detriment to the seagrass than anything. MR. DORRILL: That and turbidity. Grass needs light to grow. And as a result of sediment that gets stirred, especially during tropical storm and hurricane and cold front season, cloudy water is one of the leading contributors to seagrass decline. And so anything that we can do to improve clarity as part of the water-quality issue is smart. But your main point is would our board welcome some sort of cost-sharing or interlocal agreement with the city? I think the county and the city have a long history of interlocal agreements. But up to this point, that was also my point that was intended to say that the Seagate system needs some maintenance of its own, and it has not been maintained since probably the 1960s or the early 1970s. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. As I mentioned, we're in a workshop, so we can't make any decisions, but we can give some direction to the staff. And no one else is lit up here, so I'm going to spend just a couple minutes. The idea of creating an advisory board, I think that's a good idea. I'm not sure how that would be structured, but it would be purely a board that would meet to give advice to the County Commission and to the Pelican Bay folks. That board would have no authority but to study an issue and report back to us. So I'd like to just see if the manager would place on an agenda item -- and I'll see if the Board agrees with this -- an item to discuss the creation of that type of an advisory board to report back to the County Commission and to Pelican Bay on issues dealing with March 4, 2025 Page 51 the -- with Clam Bay. Ms. Patterson, is that something that would be reasonable and something that you could evaluate and kind of report back to us on? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. I'll work with the County Attorney, and we'll bring something back. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. If there's nothing else on this particular issue, then we're going to be in recess until, we'll say, 10 minutes till 11. You have one more point? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One quick point. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only just as additional direction. If you-all are of the mind, I would not only like to have the advice with regard to how and what and when we need to be doing, but I also would like to -- exploration of funding sources. It isn't the total responsibility of Pelican Bay or the county or the city. We're all in this together. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We will be in recess until 10:50. (A brief recess was had from 10:36 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. Item #2B LANDFILL/SOLID AND HAZARDOUS WASTE - PRESENTED BY KARI ANN HODGSON (DIVISION DIRECTOR - SOLID WASTE), DR. GEORGE YILMAZ (DEPARTMENT HEAD - PUBLIC UTILITIES), AND DANIEL DIETCH (PLANNING CONSULTANT, SCS ENGINEERS) - DISCUSSED WITH DIRECTION GIVEN CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. We're going to get March 4, 2025 Page 52 into the county landfill. I'm going to suggest, just in the interest of -- I've said this before -- the shortness of human life, let's not spend time on the history. I think we've read this, and we understand that. I think the real issue is what are we going to be doing going forward. So if we could start at that point, I think -- unless there's some objection, I would ask that we do that. Carrie. MS. HODGSON: No, we can do that, Commissioner. We'll fast forward through a few slides and get to that point. And good morning, Commissioners. Thanks for your time today. For the record, my name is Kari Hodgson. I'm your director for solid and hazardous waste. And as mentioned, we're here today to talk about long-term solid waste management disposal. When most people put out their garbage, all they really want is for it to disappear. Once collected, it's out of sight, out of mind. Moreover, they want it responsibly managed. To see how our wastes are managed responsibly, I would like to invite each of you to tour our county landfill, our recycling center, or the Immokalee transfer station. A tour will give you a visual perspective behind today's presentation, as one cell remains to be lined before the landfill expands vertically. Solid Waste has a great presence and engagement in our community with providing over 170 tours last year at our county's landfill for businesses, community, specialized leadership groups, as well as universities, public, private, and homeschool groups. As you heard earlier, the constituents of Collier County care about preserving our paradise, and the policy actions that come from today's workshop can serve for the future generations of Collier County. Commissioners, this is the third Solid Waste workshop that has convened in Collier County. Extensive research, evaluation, and analysis has gone into the presentation that you'll hear today. The March 4, 2025 Page 53 supporting information, including a recent report from FDEP, as well as several major universities in Florida regarding landfill capacity in Florida can be found on the agenda portal, and we also have a binder representing a lot of the backup research that's went into this presentation for today. I'd like to thank our Public Utilities director, Dr. George Yilmaz, and our County Manager for their support to bring this topic to the Board today. Leading today's presentation will be our Solid Waste industry expert, Mr. Daniel Dietch, who's worked on various projects with Collier County over the past 20 years. And with that, I will hand it off to Daniel Dietch. Thank you, Daniel. MR. DIETCH: Thank you, Kari. Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Commissioners, professional staff and citizens of Collier County who may be out there. For the record, as Kari said, I am Daniel Dietch, a solid waste planning consultant with SCS Engineers. I am joined today by some key members of our project delivery team, Dr. George Yilmaz and Kari Hodgson and Bart Zautcke. And we appreciate this opportunity to participate in this workshop. We want to keep this informal and conversational and, consistent with your direction, we're going to skip some slides, and I'll work with Troy to make sure that we accomplish that. We know the magnitude of this topic, so we want to be clear eyed about the challenges and the opportunities before you. We also want to set the intention that we do plan to return to you for policy direction based on your feedback today. Next slide, please. It should be Slide 2. Let me start with an overview of the items that we will discuss today. We're going to touch on the workshop purpose and the bottom line. We are going to skip over the history and many parts of March 4, 2025 Page 54 your current system. And we really want to focus on the long-term options, and we'll regroup with policy direction and action items. Next slide, please. The county's made great progress over the past few decades that we will not touch on, but it's in your briefing package. But a true long -term disposal solution has not yet been realized, and the options decrease as your population growth continues. So long-term disposal is an important matter and critically important to secure a best-value approach before the county faces a crisis. I should share that the needs extend beyond any single election cycle, and it requires an understanding of issues and opportunity to achieve a true long-term best-value solution. So why are we here today? We want to have a conversation about a few items related to solid waste management that will come back to you, and those three areas are, one, amending County Ordinance 2005-54 to create a single solid waste district comprised of Municipal Service Benefit Units 1 and 2. The second is to align the Landfill Operating Agreement with your integrated solid waste management strategy, and third is to achieve concurrence on the preferred option or options to control your long-range solid waste management destiny in terms of future solid waste disposal capacity. It is also important to note that our discussion today is consistent with the County Manager's strategic plan related to solid waste which is to provide services and programs that sustainably manage the county's solid waste. All right. Troy, if we could slide -- advance to Slide 12. And I just think it's important that we acknowledge where you are today. And this slide simply reflects the results or the benefits of implementing your current solid waste strategy. So significantly, Collier County is one of three counties in the March 4, 2025 Page 55 state of Florida that is meeting or exceeding the State of Florida's 75 percent recycling goal. This achievement is a testament to having an integrated solid waste management strategy, a long and connected history of solid waste leadership, and capable partners that provide contracted best-value solid waste services. Next slide, please. So let's turn our attention to Action Item 1, which is essentially a housekeeping item to amend County Ordinance 2005-54 to create a single solid waste district comprised of Municipal Service Benefit Units 1 and 2. It doesn't practically change anything at this point, but it does allow for service-level parity, administrative efficiency, reduced ambiguity to the customer, and affords greater flexibility for disposal if needed, which can best be accomplished with a single solid waste district. Next slide, please. The second action item is to align the Landfill Operating Agreement with your integrated solid waste management strategy. Historically, the Landfill Operating Agreement has focused on operations and odor management. As important as that focus is, preserving disposal capacity is also critically important. Currently, the Landfill Operating Agreement does not have any standards for waste compaction, so there is little incentive to preserve airspace from an operational standpoint. And as we know, the greatest population growth is planned for the northeast portion of the county. One critical focus area is to optimize the disposal operations at the Collier County Landfill. This can best be accomplished by aligning the Landfill Operating Agreement with the integrated solid waste management strategy, including establishing a performance specification for in-place waste density. It also means securing new long-term disposal agreements for solid waste and disaster-related debris that prioritize operational March 4, 2025 Page 56 flexibility. Again, before a crisis arises. Next slide, please. COMMISSIONER HALL: Daniel, can I ask you a question real quick? MR. DIETCH: Sure. COMMISSIONER HALL: Back on the Action Item No. 1, you said something about ambiguity to the customers or -- what did you say about the customers? MS. HODGSON: Yeah. So because we have commissioner districts, a lot of our customers think that when we refer to districts for collection, they think that we're referring to your districts. So we have the -- so we would like to remove that ambiguity. COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure, thank you. MR. DIETCH: Okay. So let's now turn our attention to Action Item 3, which is controlling your long-range solid waste management destiny. And this is a challenge that is not unique to Collier County. There are several long-term disposal options that were explored by your staff that we will discuss. These options include -- and, Troy, if you could advance through -- out-of-county disposal, a new landfill, technology conversion, landfill reclamation, and expanding your existing landfills. MS. HODGSON: You can keep going through those, Troy. MR. DIETCH: Yep, until we get to the next slide. MS. HODGSON: There you go. MR. DIETCH: Okay. Here we are. So we're going to start with outer county disposal. And based on our analysis, we found that Marion County is the only county comparable in population to Collier County that does not provide final disposal of solid waste within their county. Out-of-county disposal requires infrastructure such as rail lines and/or transfer stations, and we have looked at all the rail lines, both March 4, 2025 Page 57 currently and abandoned, and found that all options are cost prohibitive. Also, the county only has one transfer station, which is located at the Immokalee landfill, and it would need to be improved to manage any more waste generated in District 2 than is currently managed. Further, a new transfer station would be required at the Resource Recovery Business Park in District 1 immediately north of the Collier County Landfill. Still, we must be sensitive to the impacts of transferring waste out of county, especially traffic. A rule of thumb is that 1,000 tons, which is what goes to the Collier County Landfill each day, would require more than 50 tractor-trailers on the roads, and that would adversely impact the quality of life for many in the county as well as increased road maintenance requirements. Also, significantly, the closest private landfill is approximately two and a half hours away one way. It's a tremendous impact not just in Collier County, but for every community along the way and back. Also, the cost to transfer waste out of county is approximately 135 percent greater than managing it within the county. In addition, when waste is transferred out of county, the county assumes risks that are different than for in-county disposal. These include the fact that the county would assume liability for every other source of solid waste that is disposed of at that landfill as well as the risk of an unplanned closure of that disposal facility. So the bottom line is that out-of-county disposal alone is not controlling your solid waste destiny. Next slide, please. Next we're going to talk about a new landfill. The idea of a new landfill has been discussed and explored over at least the last 30 years. Going back to the late '90s, three properties were presented to the County Commission to be explored as potential sites, but unfortunately, the county was sued for the potential acquisition. March 4, 2025 Page 58 At that time, the Commission directed staff to instead focus on recycling and maximizing existing assets. That has absolutely worked and bought some time. Developing a new landfill is challenging, as evidenced by the length of time since the last new municipal landfill opened in Florida, which was in 1998. That's just to the north of us, in Sarasota County. Siting a new landfill is no easy task; however, landfills generally have lower capital costs and operational costs compared to other volume, reduction, or management alternatives such as waste to energy. It typically takes 10 years or more to site, permit, and construct a new landfill. Ideally, if you're going through that effort, you're going to want a site that is large enough to earn a decent return on your investment. We typically look for a site that is a thousand acres or more, recognizing that much of the space would serve as a buffer to separate on-site activities from the offsite uses. This is important, especially as more and more communities are expanding and as Collier County continues to be developed. Still, siting is the single greatest challenge; however, it will certainly be easier today than it will be in the future because we know land scarcity is going to increase rather than decrease going forward. But we also have to be clear that there will be public opposition to a new landfill. Regardless, a new landfill is controlling your solid waste management destiny, but it is often described as the fight of a lifetime. Next slide, please. Next I'll talk about technology conversion. The county has explored thermal conversion technologies over the last 40 years. The conclusion of a lot of work is that only mass burn and refuse-derived fuel waste-to-energy facilities are commercially proven volume-reduction systems. And even with the use of such an March 4, 2025 Page 59 approach, a landfill is still needed to dispose of the ash that is generated from the combustion process. Collier County has been down this road before. In 1985, the county issued bonds for a new waste-to-energy facility, and just five years later the concept was abandoned and the bonds were closed. At the turn of the century, the Commission directed staff to discuss a waste-to-energy partnership with Lee County, and at that time Lee County was not interested. Then in 2002, the county issued a solicitation for a large capacity thermal conversion technology, which was ultimately abandoned due to the high costs. While there were many interesting thermal conversion concepts that are being touted, only mass burn and refuse-derived fuel waste-to-energy systems are operating on a commercial scale with the proven reliability needed to manage the solid waste that is generated in Collier County every day. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Can you say that last statement again. MR. DIETCH: Sure. When -- only -- I'll read it verbatim, and then I will explain it further. Only mass burn and refuse-derived fuel waste-to-energy systems are operating on a commercial scale with the proven reliability needed to manage the solid waste that is generated every day in Collier County. Still, to be responsive to the marketplace and to keep abreast of opportunities, Collier County recently issued a request for expressions of interest to technology firms worldwide. The responses varied, but the only thermal systems that operate commercially are traditional waste to energy. Now, Palm Beach County has taken a different approach than Collier County. They also have an integrated solid waste management system with waste to energy as its primary volume March 4, 2025 Page 60 reduction technology. They tried to develop a new landfill on the western portion of their county about 15 years ago, but there was a lot of concern, and by "concern" I mean outrage from interested parties about a landfill located there. The county ultimately abandoned their plans to develop a new landfill, sold the land, and instead built a new mass burn waste-to-energy facility at a cost of nearly $700 million, and now they're planning to replace their original refuse-derived fuel waste-to-energy facility when it reaches the end of its useful life and replace it with a new mass burn waste-to-energy facility. As you may be aware, Miami-Dade County is going through similar challenges right now. Their refuse-derived fuel waste-to-energy facility suffered a fire two years ago, and it has remained closed since, and it has changed their solid waste management system dramatically. The county has been unable to select a site for a new waste-to-energy facility. And while they are now exploring other opportunities, even though waste to energy was their preferred path forward, they are now looking at landfills, and specifically landfilling outside of the county. It is our belief that using a conversion technology is controlling your solid waste management destiny, but it is not advisable due in part to the amount of waste that Collier County has remaining after recycling. It simply doesn't achieve the economies of scale that make these sorts of technologies cost effective. Next we'll talk about landfill reclamation. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One moment, please. Commissioner Hall. MR. DIETCH: Sure. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you. It seems to me like we've been getting emails from one company or maybe two that they want to take our trash and do something with March 4, 2025 Page 61 it and do it on their dime. I never have really gotten into it. I think I probably just forwarded those to Dr. George. What is that guy all about? And would that help -- would that be helpful to us in -- or maybe doing a hybrid system? MR. DIETCH: Yeah. So I think I'm familiar with the company, or the consortium that you're referring to. We have -- part of the reason that we conducted the request for expressions of interest, which is really the lowest level, in terms of effort, of solicitation. We asked for information: Where have they done it before where they're processing municipal solid waste either a portion of what Collier County generates or all of what Collier County generates? And unfortunately, the technology has not been demonstrated to manage waste on a consistent basis and at a commercial scale. And we asked for those reference projects so that we could be diligent in our analysis. The handful of responses that were received, we ranked them in terms of technology readiness. And believe me, not just the consulting team, your entire team is always looking out over the horizon to see where the emerging technologies are. And it's often described as we want to be on the leading edge but not the bleeding edge. So oftentimes, you may want to consider being the second entity that has adopted, you know, the next greatest technology. But our assessment is that mass burn, waste to energy, and refuse-derived fuel are proven. They've been -- they have an operating record in the United States over many, many decades. I'll also share that there's a lot of technologies that are being adapted from other industries, and solid waste is not like -- for example, gasification is well proven in the coal industry, but coal is -- you can have a consistent particle size, consistent dryness, right? So the attributes of that material are very different than municipal solid waste. March 4, 2025 Page 62 COMMISSIONER HALL: What was that guy's technology? It was not burn? MR. DIETCH: It was three-phase microwave reactors. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, microwave. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just -- and this is just a quick clarification for me. When I was reading ahead, as Ms. Kari suggested that I do, in this -- in this total amount of collected tons, is the total recycling tons part of that dark blue, or is it in addition to the dark blue? MS. HODGSON: That is the recycling tons only. Let me double-check. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because that doesn't answer my question. MS. HODGSON: I apologize. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't be sorry. I just -- I want a clarification. Because to me it looks like -- if the dark blue is our total tons collected and the light blue is the total tons recycled, that means about 20 percent of our total collected needs to be disposed in some form or format, because we're manipulating -- about 80 percent of our collections are being recycled. MR. DIETCH: That's correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that correct? MS. HODGSON: That is correct. The dark blue is the total tons collected, and the light blue is part of those total tons collected. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very good. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And let me ask you another question. Other technologies, have we explored any technologies out of Europe or other countries? You know, I say that March 4, 2025 Page 63 because -- you know, just take nuclear, for example. France is almost all nuclear power for electricity. They're way ahead of us. Are there other countries that are doing things a little differently? Has that been explored? MR. DIETCH: Yes, but not for solid waste, municipal solid waste. There are technologies that, for example, in Japan that are processing, quote-unquote, select waste. So that -- there's a lot of preprocessing and segregation and then manipulation of the material to make it more uniform, so more homogenous rather than heterogeneous. But that is not what you're generating here, right? When it's picked up at the curb, it is commingled, and -- well, to be kind, it's heterogeneous. So -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The reason I mention that is, you know, obviously, you do a request for some interest. You're going to get some presentations. But I don't know how broad that would have gone, and at some point we might want to just take a look at what they're doing in other countries. MR. DIETCH: Yeah. And I'm going to remind Dr. George, because he went on a world tour back in 2002, when the county issued a solicitation for an emerging conversion technology system, and there were facilities operating in Germany, in Italy that, unfortunately, were no longer operating -- or at this point they're no longer operating. But, yeah, regularly looking out over the horizon, not just in Florida, not just in the United States, but globally, and that was the intention with the request for expressions of interest through the procurement system to announce it to the world that Collier County was -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I guess if there's a worldwide trip that comes up, Dr. George probably wouldn't be the representative going. It will probably be, you know, some commissioner. I'm just March 4, 2025 Page 64 kidding. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Maybe the Chairman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It depends on who the Chairman is. MS. HODGSON: To add to that -- to add to that, when we look at the technologies that have been presented -- and these companies did respond to our request of -- or expressions for interest, we look at the applicability to Collier County. We have to look at the waste generation, if there's opportunities for partnerships. But again, ensuring that it's proven as well and the types of collection we have and if that would also need to be impacted by the technology or the alternative disposal that's presented to us. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. DIETCH: Okay. So Collier County has a rich history with landfill reclamation. It is an approach that is typically used to address an environmental -- environmental liability. It is not commonly used to reclaim airspace at modern landfills. Reclamation has been performed twice for unlined portions of the Collier County Landfill. The first section that was reclaimed was associated with an old county gun range, and there was lead contamination. Then subsequently, a 22-acre area was reclaimed to allow for the buildout of the new lined disposal cells at the Collier County Landfill. In both cases, what it provided was the removal of an environmental hazard that cleared the way for your planned landfill development. With the Immokalee Landfill, it's a very different situation. That is an unlined, enclosed landfill. When I say "unlined," I mean there's no liner at the bottom, just a liner at the top. And as mentioned earlier, the solid waste that is received at the Immokalee transfer station is delivered -- transferred out of county to the March 4, 2025 Page 65 Okeechobee landfill. Significantly, that site is located in a part of the county that is experiencing rapid and what we expect to be sustained population growth, and reclaiming the Immokalee Landfill would present an opportunity to reduce an environmental liability while creating an opportunity to develop new disposal capacity for the future. Next slide, please. The Immokalee Landfill reached capacity in 2003. The whole site is approximately 120 acres, and the footprint for the disposal cells is less than 21 acres. The maximum height of the site is 80 feet. The neighbors immediately to the left are county jail and a county fleet facility, and we know that there are some challenges that we're exploring now in terms of distance to the Immokalee airport. But we also know that the surrounding sections of that site are agricultural, which would provide a great buffer. Our conclusion is that reclaiming and redeveloping the Immokalee Landfill is controlling your solid waste management destiny. Next slide, please. The last option we want to explore is optimizing your existing landfill. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Before you move on with that, Daniel, Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. I can't help but think about the Grinch. One man's trash is another man's potpourri. Is there any potential at all for some of the -- maybe for something smaller like Immokalee, is there any -- in the reclamation process for privatization or private-public partnership, or is it just all on us? MS. HODGSON: As far as the disposal? COMMISSIONER HALL: As far as just -- yeah, you know. MS. HODGSON: So right now we currently are contracted March 4, 2025 Page 66 with Waste Management to operate the Immokalee Transfer Station as well as the Collier County Landfill. As part of the action items here, we discussed as No. 2 amending that Landfill Operating Agreement to secure disposal capacity at other landfills, not just for garbage generated in Collier County but also for hurricane debris. So we have a great partnership that's been long standing with Waste Management as far as the operation of our disposal, but there's -- there could also be opportunities. That's why we look at these requests for information or express interest for technologies to see if there are other compatible partnerships for Collier County. Does that answer your question? COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah, similar -- I mean, kind of. I guess my mind was going to if we turned over the waste management in an area to some private company, they could basically wholesale our trash and sell it to somebody that wants to do the three-phase microwave. You know, I didn't know if that was an -- I'm just sitting up here freewheeling. MS. HODGSON: No, no. I appreciate the engagement. So when we put out for these expressions for interest to see, again, what kind of partnerships could exist, those could be potentials. So if the microwave theory existed and that was a partnership between either us indirectly with the processor or directly with another private company then to the processor, those are all opportunities that would be explored and presented if they existed. COMMISSIONER HALL: My thoughts were, if we turned it over to somebody that's a -- you know, to a private company, if they're buying our trash from us so that they can sell it to a microwave, then they can prove the process. It's on their dime, it's on their risk, and we still get our trash moved. So that's all I was thinking about. MR. DIETCH: And you would absolutely just want a backup March 4, 2025 Page 67 plan because the garbage that's generated is generated every day, and it's picked up nearly every day. So you do have to make sure that it is managed responsibly every day. And I will tell you, in the solicitation that was issued in 2002, the Commission at that time was interested in innovative technologies. One of the provisions in the contract, which was never consummated, was if the county provides a site for a demonstration facility, if the project never achieves substantial completion, the site has to be returned to its original state. So there are ways to incorporate safeguards so that the county is not buying undo risk. COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess, in Commissioner LoCastro's terms, I was just up here spitballing. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Hey, stick to the topic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well -- and if I heard you correctly, even though the three-phase microwave sounds pretty smurfy, it's not really viable technology. Is that what I heard? MR. DIETCH: It may very well be. It has not demonstrated as a system to process municipal solid waste the way that it is placed at the curb in Collier County or any other community. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because of -- just because. So even though it sounds like a wonderful idea, it hasn't yet been proven to -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Not for us. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- be actually viable as of yet, number one. Number two, the reason you're here today is because we do care. The Board that heard this in 2002 were told they had 52 years before the landfill expired. Now we're looking at 30 years. And you've already told us what it takes to site a new landfill and go through all of the processes. So that's the reason that you're here today. We don't want to have this discussion in another 20 years and March 4, 2025 Page 68 with another board and we're like this (indicating). Now, my question for you is -- you mentioned reclamation twice, but I haven't -- I didn't see a good synopsis of that. What actually transpires with reclamation? We've already done it once at the big landfill or -- okay, twice, to correct me. What actually transpires with reclamation? Or am I getting ahead of where you're going? MR. DIETCH: No. It's a timely question. I mean, it's a permitted process, and the permit is through the State of Florida, where the material is excavated and screened. Because historic disposal practices used a lot more soil and higher quality soil than is currently available. So you separate out the soil from the recyclable materials. And there's various mechanisms to segregate out the plastics and the metals and the like. The recyclable materials can then be processed. The sand -- the soil can be stockpiled, and the waste can be placed into a new disposal cell. That's exactly what happened at the Collier County Landfill. And the concept that we've been exploring is doing the same thing at Immokalee to remove that environmental liability but first develop new lined cells so that excavation occurs, the screening occurs, but then that material has a place to go that is on site. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's what I thought I heard you say. I just wanted you to say it again. I'm sorry for making you repeat yourself. MR. DIETCH: No, no. It's quite all right. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. So I was following what Commissioner Hall and Commissioner McDaniel were talking about, this three-phase microwave thing, and I totally agree with you that this -- you know, everything sounds like March 4, 2025 Page 69 it's a good thing until you actually sit down and actually watch it work and if it actually does work or not. But let's say, you know, if it was an opportunity to -- because evidently, the gentleman -- they must make a profit off of whatever their by- -- whatever the result of their process is, or they wouldn't be in the business. Why would we have to have -- like, Commissioner Hall, with a -- somebody to sell our landfill to just to give it -- just to sell it to another -- to a third party? Why couldn't that [sic] something we can do in the future if it does become a viable operation that we could sell directly to this individual so he could make a profit off of his three-phase microwave whatever he calls it? But, you know, that would offset what we're already spendings anyways. So instead of having a third party involved, is that something possibly in the future, if this does become something -- if it's the next greatest thing since sliced toast -- which was not even a good idea. It actually brought bacteria into the food. But I'm going off subject again. But -- so, I mean, is that a possibility, too? MS. HODGSON: Yeah. So the partnerships could be 3P; they could be between the county and the processors. It could -- it would really just depend on the business plan, how that looks for the county. For these emerging technologies, or any technology, we would want the county to be in the most least-risk position. So having an agreement where they're buying our waste would be an ideal solution. Most companies will not buy your waste even if they're generating a byproduct. And, again, it comes back to when we talk about the pyrolysis, the microwave. The only thing in the United States we've seen is waste to energy and landfilling, and the waste is betting paid to go, and it's a waste minimization technique. So if it ever does come to fruition that those technologies are proven and economically feasible and scalable to Collier County, and March 4, 2025 Page 70 applicable, that's something that we would bring back to the Board with recommendations for the type of agreement that would be in place. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I've got a -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. I thought you were finished. I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I don't know if I'm jumping ahead, but I remember after Hurricane Ian and touring, you know, the northern section over there where the landfill is, we occupied a large portion to the north of the road, kind of where our deepwater injection area is -- MS. HODGSON: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- for all that white material, like refrigerators, stoves, things of that nature, and a lot of -- some other debris that didn't go into our landfill. Now that -- using that, was that a temporary thing, or is that already existing permits for those properties as part of the original landfill, north of the landfill? MS. HODGSON: So couple things for that. That's -- when we have a hurricane, we have debris management sites to manage the debris that's picked up by a separate contractor, not your standard curbside contractor, but our debris removal contractors. And FEMA requires that we separate out those recycle materials, such as the white goods, appliances. That also happens every day in collection, just for the -- for what it's worth noting. The land that is north of the landfill does have a permitted debris management site. So that is permitted specifically for that use during those emergency times for the debris removal mission, and it is part of the contract and part of FEMA requirements that the materials that can be recycled are recycled, such as the white goods. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Like our Immokalee site, which March 4, 2025 Page 71 we know has some older technology, is not lined, but which it sounds like -- that what we get out of there is actually quality dirt to mix with new fill when we do line an area to keep, like, an ongoing process when you're taking here and building there or taking here, building there. You have material on site to do it. That northern section, would that be something easier to bring into a permit that already exists than going out and trying to get a whole new permitting process for property we already own? MR. DIETCH: That is correct. The information that needs to be submitted to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection is the same. So the goal would be to modify your long-term care closure permit for development, construction, and then operation. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. That was one of the questions I was going to ask in terms of Immokalee. It's 120 acres, and that's a permitted landfill for the whole 120, or is it just for the 20 acres that's being -- that was being used? MR. DIETCH: The site is permitted, but for disposal; it was the two disposal cells that are now closed. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just the 20.5 acres? MR. DIETCH: Correct. But you have flexibility within the entire site if you were to change from a long-term care operation to active landfilling again. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, 120 acres, does that -- in terms of just duration, how much time does that get you if you're looking at the growth in the county, if you had a 120-acre landfill? Because I'm assuming you can't, at each of the borders, have a -- MR. DIETCH: I'm going to give you an unsatisfying response, and that is "It depends." CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. MR. DIETCH: So with -- you know, with direction, we can March 4, 2025 Page 72 analyze the site and try to figure out, within that footprint, what could be accomplished, because there is an ongoing project at that site to build a new recycle center. So that's taken a portion of the site out of play. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is there land around there that could be acquired to expand that site? MR. DIETCH: There is. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So at least theoretically we do have a small site that might serve as a landfill in an emergency. MS. HODGSON: And, Troy, if you could go back a slide, please. So this slide shows the Immokalee Landfill outlined in red to your left, and there's surrounding acres that are agricultural around it, and the 20 acres of landfill cell that are on that property are very small. It's the two most eastern hills, if you will, on that property. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. MS. HODGSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. I want to go back to the idea -- I'm not advocating for this by any means. I'm just trying to freewheel think. Since the guy -- on the microwave, since he doesn't have any history, doesn't have anything to base his credibility on, what if we were to allow him to take a small portion on his dime and give him a small portion and let him test himself and get his history with us, and if he's successful, we grow it. If he's not, we boot him. So those are just things I'm thinking. DR. YILMAZ: If I might, for the record, George Yilmaz, your department head for Public Utilities. Commissioner, by answering your inquiry or question, I'm going to address at the same time similar inquiry that came from our March 4, 2025 Page 73 Commissioner Kowal as well as Commissioner McDaniel. So one way to achieve going after emerging and proven technologies is that optimizing opportunities north of the landfill, which is called Solid Waste Park, business park. We own that land, and it's permitted for all activities but landfilling. So that will require some permitting and land-use change. But for the purpose of a pilot program -- like you laid out, for a purpose of a pilot program, out of RFI, request for information, we have a number of applicants, and we're in the process of looking into number of RFPs, which is next step for looking into technologies, proven, and if some proven, entertain a pilot program, small portion of the waste, demonstrate to us. We have very smart minds on our team to develop a contract, an agreement, which will put no liability to our board and the county but get into some kind of demonstration project. I think that we have the intellectual power and American ingenuity for us to be able to take reasonable risk and get close to leading edge but definitely test the cutting edge. So I just want to share this with our board that we're not running away from risk. We want to manage it all the way to line leading edge. And I think that a pilot program north of the landfill for this emerging technologies, called Solid Waste Business Park and permitted for such, would be a good location, and you will see, as part of this workshop, we will have number of solicitations going out, and adjustments will be made in terms of our integrated solid waste management, and I hope I did answer your inquiries about how we're going to go about emerging non-proven technologies that I think we need to be open-minded for. COMMISSIONER HALL: No, that satisfies mine. I mean, I'm all about taking a risk without it being risky. It's possible. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. March 4, 2025 Page 74 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And on that note, I think we have to have faith that our staff is looking at all emerging technologies and looking at all alternatives for us, because this is as dire a concern with them as it is for us and the long-term impacts for our entire community. So with that said, you've been real good about talking about the waste-to-energy cost, $700 million. What's the revenue? MR. DIETCH: The cost is for -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, that was an example you used at Palm Beach. That was a $672 million expense for Palm Beach. MR. DIETCH: Correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But I don't -- I didn't see -- what's the revenue? How do you get the money back, or what's the rate of return for that investment other than longevity? MR. DIETCH: Typically, the bonds are paid off. It's a 20-year note. But remember, solid waste is a cost. There can be an offset, so some of the offsets are metal recovery on the back end, sale through a power purchase agreement of electricity to the utility. In their case it's Florida Power & Light. But it is still a net cost. So, really, I can answer your question that the expense is offset by revenue. That's really in, you know, two directions, the energy and the material that is recovered. But it is paid for as an essential service for managing the solid waste. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand -- DR. YILMAZ: If I might, Commissioners. It's paid by the customers. Revenue is coming from customers with increased cost of municipal solid waste management disposal. So instead of costing us $54, customer's paying per ton, it will go up $150 whatever that matching revenue will be. So it will be burdened by our own current customers. March 4, 2025 Page 75 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. But -- and I understand that that becomes a cost for the customer base. But is there any data coming from the revenue generated for the waste-to-energy conversion for the disposition of the steel if it's extracted out or the energy that's, in fact, created? Do we have any idea of what the revenue generation is that offsets that initial burden? MS. HODGSON: I can -- I can answer that. We can follow up with some data information based on some counties that have waste-to-energy, such as Lee County, Palm Beach. And also just to put on the record and keep in mind is your solid waste management is an enterprise fund and to -- so far in history, it has been cash and carry. It doesn't mean that can't change, but I just want to make sure I did put that on the record for how it has been for the past, since conception [sic]. We can certainly come back with that. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A portion of our discussions going forward if, in fact, we start looking at waste-to-energy conversion and the siting of a facility, we need to have the entire picture as to what can happen, not just the expense associated, and that was the reason why I asked that question. MS. HODGSON: No, understood, and that makes complete sense, and we'll have to follow up with some of the agreements that those counties have with their operating entities for those -- that different technology, yep. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: With regard to Commissioner Hall's question when he basically was saying, "How long would it take for the landfill to run out?" and then you said, "Oh, you're going to hate this answer, but it depends," I think for purposes of this workshop -- and it does kind of go in line with the data that Commissioner McDaniel was talking about. I think it would be helpful to have data that shows, "Hey, all things being equal, if March 4, 2025 Page 76 nothing changed, there was no growth in Collier County, here's the number for the landfill. With 10 percent growth, here's when the landfill would be filled up." And it's somewhat hypothetical, but it's at least a starting point to put up on the wall, and then as you get through the years, you grade it and say, "Wow, we were off. You know, we expected 10 percent growth; there was 17 percent growth. So now instead of the landfill being filled in 22 years, it's got maybe 19 years." And we know it's a little bit fluid, but when we're talking about, like, data that could be helpful, especially to our replacements, as they sort of get -- start tracking those guesstimates and then measuring them when we actually pass the five-year point and go, wow, we were pretty close. We -- you know, we guessed about a 9 percent growth in population or what have you, and that shaved a couple of years off the landfill, where, you know, the chart is going a little bit the wrong way. We're about to run out of space a little quicker if it continues or, you know, we're about right on track. And that wouldn't have to be something that, you know, NASA would need to figure out for us, but it would just be a good guesstimate, you know, a chart to see about where we are and then grade it, you know, over time during these workshops to see if we're close. That would just be, you know, my input, because I think it would sort of be important to sort of monitor how close we're getting to really, you know, a cautious time that, "Hey, we need to really start looking for something because we're tracking that we're about to run out of space, you know, in 13 years," something like that. MS. HODGSON: So -- yeah. And I just wanted to point out, so we do that every year as part of the AUIR process for the Collier County Landfill, and knowing that the garbage that goes into the Collier County Landfill is all from what is -- we call Municipal March 4, 2025 Page 77 Service District 1, which is basically everywhere except Ave Maria and Immokalee, which is transferred out. We take -- we use the BEBR chart, which is based on populations, not the unit growth. It's based on population growth, and we look at the waste generation per unit. And we adjust that every year, and we reflect on where we were. So if you looked at the AUIR two years ago, the opening would say the estimated live was 2060; however, it's been reduced by one year because we saw a waste generation increase due to COVID or whatever it might be that we've seen in the industry. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And in that, does it show a projection as to a guesstimate? Okay. MS. HODGSON: Yes. So -- and that's -- so currently the Collier County Landfill estimated capacity reaches 2059. So -- and that's based on data from previous years, annual survey, waste generation, and taking averages of those. That's part of the Growth Management Plan for ensuring that capacity as well as the 10-year lined -- I'm sorry -- 10-year of capacity requirement and a two-year lined capacity. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It still does depend, but we at least have the -- MR. DIETCH: Yeah. Not to belabor the point, it was a slightly different question from the Chair in terms of how much disposal capacity could be gained at Immokalee -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right. MR. DIETCH: -- with the scenario that we described. And it does require, not putting a person on the moon, but some engineering analysis, but that's why we wanted to have the conversation, because if there was no interest from the Commission, we're not going to advance that analysis. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. March 4, 2025 Page 78 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. I was just looking at the Immokalee site again, and I had noticed that those four parcels around it are all owned by Silver Strand, LLC. Do we know who that is, or do we have any clue? MS. HODGSON: Yeah. So as part of the -- we really did a due diligence before we came here today, making sure that anything we presented to you would end with an action item that we could bring back to the Board for some policy direction. So there is a current -- I think it might be listed on there. There is a current application in for a mining in some parts of that agricultural land. We have a study done on the permitting feasibility. We have a study done on the land planning feasibility. The owners are the Colliers that own that currently, yes. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So even that one parcel that's -- that butts up to the original Immokalee, you're talking an extra 460 -- about 580 -- you'd increase the footprint about 580 acres with just that one parcel of that LLC. And I know I got people giggling at me way back in the day when we were talking about the Colliers wanting a piece of our property that they sold to us or we bought or whatever over there near their new development by 29 and Oil Well. And I says, "Everything comes with a price." So if the Colliers have a piece of property that might increase our waste management or our footprint around one of our dumps, maybe that could be a tradeoff. And, you know, a lot of people were like, "Ha, ha, ha." Well, you know what, this might be an opportunity to strike a deal. I don't know. Because they want something from us that we have, and we could use something that they have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Daniel -- March 4, 2025 Page 79 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're in negotiations with them on that 500 acres right now to exchange that 500 acres for the east 500 of the Camp Keais piece that we already own. It isn't a secret. It's a matter of public record. We're going through the environmental surveys. We're going through the appraisals. We're going through all of the stuff. So that's in the works today. MS. HODGSON: And to add, as one of the last action items that you'll see on here when we talk about the policy direction to come back to the Board with, it does list the potential to revitalize the Immokalee Landfill. So if it was to the Board's pleasure, we would then work closely with the Growth Management division on that discussion as -- and make sure that we came back to the Board for any direction. But we certainly don't want to leave it off the list of options without giving you the due diligence. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So you're telling me we have a chance? COMMISSIONER HALL: So you're saying there's a chance. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Saying there's a chance. All right, thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Daniel, if you can go ahead and proceed. MR. DIETCH: If we could advance to -- MS. HODGSON: That's it. MR. DIETCH: So we want to talk about optimizing your existing landfill. This slide simply shows constraints and opportunities. The Collier County Landfill has been there for decades. The 305 property to its west was purchased by the county, is now part of the City Gate Planned Unit Development, or PUD, and it is used, as you know, for a marque sports complex. The area to the north is the Resource Recovery Business Park PUD that was established for ancillary and support services for the county landfill March 4, 2025 Page 80 and other county functions; however, there are two specific opportunities we would like to talk about. Next slide, please. When we think about the two optimization opportunities, one is contiguous to the Collier County Landfill but beyond the current site, and that's what we're going to talk about first. Eastern optimization really is a long-term opportunity. When I say "long term," based on our preliminary analysis, we're talking about potentially 15 generations worth of disposal capacity if you were to optimize the Collier County Landfill laterally, or to the east. Next slide, please. The entire acre [sic] is a square. It's 645 acres. The waste area that we analyzed is 411 acres. And, again, it would be contiguous as originally modeled to be aligned with the current footprint of the Collier County Landfill, so on the northern two-thirds of that site. As I mentioned, we're looking at nearly 300 years of capacity if built to the same height as the Collier County Landfill is permitted to, or 200 feet. The capacity estimate does consider adequate buffers to the north and to the east while the estimated capacity would decrease if there were wider buffers. By any measure, it would still be significant capacity gained; however, as we talked about earlier, it would not be an easy lift. It would require land acquisition, modifications of the Land Development Code or LDC and PUD to allow a landfill in Section 31. It would also require modifying a number of federal, state, local environmental permits and the state or FDEP operating permit, including the operating and closure plans, and it may require wetlands mitigation; may. This opportunity has significant value, and it absolutely would enable the county to control its solid waste destiny through achieving a best-value solution. It is important to note that your predecessors have provided the March 4, 2025 Page 81 policy direction, and your professional staff have done an incredible job at maximizing recovery and expanding capacity. What is presented to you is the opportunity to do what they have not been able to do, which is provide a long-term solid waste management solution for up to 15 generations. Next slide, please. The other opportunity for optimizing is within the existing Collier County Landfill site. If both on-site areas were taken advantage of, you would gain approximately 29 years of additional capacity. That optimization has some of the same requirements as the eastern expansion option we just discussed in terms of modifying the LDC and PUD to expand the landfill footprint to the south as well as modifying similar permits. This is important. It would require moving stormwater west to the 305 property, and that is currently your stormwater is managed on site in the southwest portion of the parcel. So the only way to expand in that area would be to manage the stormwater off site, and it would absolutely require wetland mitigation if you developed these areas, because these areas are designated as wetlands today. Next slide, please. Okay. Beyond the initiatives presented, I did want to share some of the continued actions of your staff based on past policy direction, and these activities include maximizing source reduction, reuse, and recycling as evidenced by Collier County being one of three counties that is meeting or exceeding the state's 75 recycling goal. Continuous engagement with stakeholders soliciting their feedback, including both the community as well as the vendors. Benchmarking performance with peer counties, which is -- we consider a best interest to understand where you stand relative to your March 4, 2025 Page 82 region, the state, and the country, and in some cases the world. Evaluating best industry practices to enhance current and developed new services and programs. As we've talked about, maintaining situational awareness of emerging market trends and technologies, and delivering best-value solid waste management services that are consistent with your enduring guiding principles. Last slide. So as we complete our discussion today, I want to thank you for your time and your valuable and insightful input. I will close with the following action items to return to the Commission to seek the following policy direction. As we started with, amending County Ordinance 2005-54 to create a single solid waste district. Again, this is viewed as a housekeeping item that does not have any impact today but could be provided with greater flexibility in the future. The second is amend the Landfill Operating Agreement to align with the integrated solid waste management strategy and, for all intents and purposes, clean it up. There have been a number of amendments to the Landfill Operating Agreement over its life, and it would certainly benefit from being conformed as well as better aligning the service expectations and opportunities to maximize the value of that asset. As we touched on, establishing compaction performance standards to maximize airspace. And again, we talk about having mitigation plans. You currently have long-term disposal capacity agreements with Waste Management at their other facilities, but they're somewhat limited in terms of tons or volume. So it's also an opportunity to secure long-term disposal capacity at their regional landfills, not only for solid waste that's generated every day but also disaster debris, which as you can speak to your neighbors to the north, they have been reckoning with over the past several hurricane March 4, 2025 Page 83 seasons. And lastly, to achieve concurrence to control your long-range solid waste management destiny. So identifying a time frame to secure eastern properties to expand the Collier County Landfill; modifying the LDC/PUD and the permits; negotiate expansion of the operational boundaries with Waste Management, your contract operator of the landfill; and engage with stakeholders and potential partners regarding revitalizing the Immokalee Landfill to address the growing needs in that area. We now look to you to provide your guidance and direction, and our team is available to answer any questions you might have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. So great presentation, well laid out. Made me think, made me think a lot. And as I'm looking at the latest one for the landfill expansion, you mentioned it's $390 million development cost for, what, another 300 years of use. Has there been any thought of how much it would be or how much money or obstacles you anticipate to get us another 100 years? Instead of taking such a big bite of the pie, maybe a smaller bite. MR. DIETCH: I mean, it's scalable. COMMISSIONER HALL: It is scalable? MR. DIETCH: Yeah, and we can run that analysis and get you -- COMMISSIONER HALL: You don't have to. I was just thinking. I'm up here spitballing. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Three hundred years is a long time. COMMISSIONER HALL: It's a long time. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are we paying him to think? COMMISSIONER HALL: Not very much. March 4, 2025 Page 84 COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They'll have that microwave thing down pat by then. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything else, Commissioner Hall? COMMISSIONER HALL: No. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, you know, going to the east is a terribly, terribly arduous process. There's people, there's businesses, there's houses out there. Oh, my. Oh, my. You want -- you want -- you want pitchforks and torches? So -- but the scalability aspect of it, Mr. Hall, is certainly a discussion point that we can have. The one thing that I saw you gloss over, because it was my read-ahead -- and I read ahead, by the way, just so you know -- were the bioreactors. We didn't have a discussion with regard to the bioreactors. There's a picture of them in here that I saw, but we really didn't talk about those and whether or not that they could be technology or availability to help us lengthen our useful life. Are you not talking about them on purpose? MS. HODGSON: So which slide are you referring to for the bioreactors? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, it's what I thought, they were bioreactors. It was a picture -- let me find the picture. This one. Resource Recovery Business Park here. These look like bioreactors down here. Is that not bioreactors? MS. HODGSON: No, that's not bioreactors. So that is basically explaining that in order for the vertical expansion at the landfill, which is where all the landfill life and capacity is, a lot of the operations, which is the slide before that, will be relocated to that Resource Recovery Business Park. So that's a -- what you're looking at is a conceptual plan of the activities that will take place on the March 4, 2025 Page 85 Resource Recovery Park. So we look at the potential for digesters if they were needed as well for renewable gas service sources. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And so I misconstrued that picture. And so what do bioreactors do for us with regard to adding longevity to our landfill and its operations? DR. YILMAZ: Commissioners, I'll take that. Bioreactors, active landfilling, designed to convert Class 1 landfill, which we have currently, Naples Landfill permitted as Class 1 landfill. You actively manage the leachate and recirculate, and you virtually turn landfill into an anaerobic digester. So it's a wet landfill operation versus dry landfill operation. Dry landfill operation takes all the leachate, as much as possible, with no recirculation, let the landfill settle and biodigest itself over 30 years, 40 years. Bioreactors can be designed, smaller cells, and every seven to 11 years, you're able to go back there, reuse the same place for new waste stream. So scalability comes in. So if you have, let's say, 10 bioreactors in the form of landfills, advanced bioreactors, it will take five years to fill one, and you go to next one, and you go to next one. By the time 10 to 15 year hits, you're already reclaiming the first one that you filled. So it's not a permanent landfill you walk away from. It's a bioreactor. You're managing the biodegration [sic] through leachate, and micro-biome and, through means and methods, managing the gas. So every bioreactor becomes renewable energy gas source. So you get biogas, about 50 plus percent in this process. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So for my nonscientific brain, Doc, we actually, then, as part of the scalability of this entire discussion, could add bioreactors into our world with the expansion of the existing landfill or the reclamation of the Immokalee Landfill. That would be a prudent thing, I would think, if you're in the March 4, 2025 Page 86 reclamation process, that you add an installation of an apparatus that would allow for that ultimate -- the newly created cell to be reclaimed and reutilized again. DR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir. And I think when you look at the action items here from a policy decision-making standpoint, we can bring those items; however, this is more on a strategic level, as you know. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. DR. YILMAZ: Those are more tactical moves. So if we need to -- for instance, if the Board says, "We don't want to be in landfill business. Go after waste reduction technologies, like waste to energy and other emerging technologies," that's the direction we're going to take. But if the -- if the Board's wishes, we want to buy more land next to our current landfills and optimize those landfills and close those landfills using current sites that we own, and then we close the landfills in long term, it's going to be our legacy. Do we want to have Egyptian pyramid, or do we want to have something like Baker's Park where landfill becomes invisible and you can actually restore it as part of being a park, passive and active use. So if the Board wishes to say, "Go ahead and go after every single action item you've got here, staff" -- and we'll come back with hybrid solutions looking into visibility, land acquisition surrounding Immokalee Landfill and permitability, same with our current landfill, and go further, put RFPs out there, look into options for waste reduction and energy technologies. And I think that our consultant and staff give you -- these three action items give us those flexibilities; am I correct? MS. HODGSON: Correct. DR. YILMAZ: Oh, by the way, I just want to mention, Daniel Dietch is very unique engineer. Not only he's an engineer, but he's an applied scientist. There's a difference. So applied scientists March 4, 2025 Page 87 think above and beyond four corners. So thank you for being on board. Also, he's a former mayor, so he knows and understands policy, what it takes to move long-term decisions and lock it in so that it is one of those legacy policy decisions and action items, regardless of what -- what the Board might look like 10, 15 years from now. That's a legacy program in front of you that you will shape while you're on Board that will impact 15 generations. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Doc. DR. YILMAZ: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we're totally impressed with you, just so you know. At least I am. I don't know. The quick question is, what effectively is the cost associated with the bioreactors from an investment standpoint? DR. YILMAZ: Plus/minus 5 percent, as same as dry Class 1 landfill, because you're going after Class 1 landfill. What you're doing with bioreactors is that you're regenerating airspace, and that optimization financial portfolio can be presented in terms of selection of Class 1 dry or wet landfill. So short answer is, it's going to be equivalent to what we're doing now. MS. HODGSON: And to add to that, if -- a bioreactor is essentially very similar to an existing landfill except you're recirculating the liquids within. So you're just enhancing the breakdown of the composition. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. MS. HODGSON: So that's the short answer, simple of it. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand the short answer. I understand the technology. But you haven't said how much -- because I saw a picture early in my life as a county commissioner. There were bioreactors situated around this landfill -- that landfill. There were bioreactors on the perimeter March 4, 2025 Page 88 somewhere. DR. YILMAZ: Commissioner, you're right, and then we purchased Site 305 right west of current landfill. That site were -- that site was purchased with the intent to look into visibility of road alignment, Benfield Road alignment, and right next to current landfill on the west side, identified five to seven bioreactors to be located; however, the purchased land was repurposed through policy decision-making process to be a sports complex. So that's why that's not on table here. We continue to, as our chair indicated, look to the future, not question past and past policy-making actions by the Board. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We weren't questioning it. I just had -- I just had a recollection of it out there somewhere. Has any consideration been given to the Resource Recovery Park to the north for the utilization of the bioreactors to be in that vicinity? MS. HODGSON: I can answer that. So right now the PUD for that property does not permit landfilling, and bioreacting is a type of landfilling. So it is prohibited in the PUD for that property. Essentially, because after the waste breaks down, you are then digging it back up, reclaiming it. So for -- all the activities that take place in a landfill would be the same as a bioreactor. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. So my question is, who created the PUD? MS. HODGSON: So the PUD's history goes back to two -- I'd have to get back to you on the PUD. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The short answer is the Board of County Commissioners created a PUD. MS. HODGSON: Of course, sir. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Trick question. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Another short answer -- another short answer for you is is that -- March 4, 2025 Page 89 COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He knew the answer. He was just -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Excuse me. Another short answer for you is that which is created by the Board of County Commissioners can and often is adjusted by the Board of County Commissioners. So don't stay linear, Ms. Engineer, in your thought processes. MS. HODGSON: Understood. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. I think the one question we answered today is -- and you had asked it in the beginning -- how -- is this important to us? I think you've seen that it is. So one of the things that I would say, and I think it goes without saying, when we have these workshops, you guys should always have a seat at the table. There's a bunch of things you-all are doing, a lot of things that you're doing that are really great and worth spotlighting in a forum like this and not just behind the scenes. You've met with us all separately, and you've been able to show how you've saved citizens money on, you know, garbage pickup. And it's not district specific. Every citizen in our district gets their garbage picked up. The awards you've won for recycling, you know, those are things that shouldn't be glossed over. And then the other thing that I think begs having you here on a regular basis -- and we talked about it a little bit -- technology's changing so much. So some of the things we hypothetically talked about here where we go, "Eh, still remains to be seen," we might be sitting here in three years going, "Man, they're doing it in Pinellas County," and we just took a trip there -- we didn't have to go overseas or anything -- and we discovered some things. So keeping the commissioners, you know, abreast of what's March 4, 2025 Page 90 going on in the technology standpoint, this is why we have these workshops. Totally separate things, Action Item 1, if I understand you correctly, to alleviate confusion and ambiguity, all of Collier County is now District 1 when it comes to trash pickup, or whatever -- the solid waste; is that what we're saying? MS. HODGSON: Yeah. So essentially, it's one solid waste district. And all the county residents that receive our service receive the same service. So there's no reason to differentiate between District 1 and District 2. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we're calling it District 1 or -- okay. We're not calling it that. MR. DIETCH: Essentially, the MSBUs are still separate because you have collection contracts that are aligned with those, but it would create a single solid waste district that has the benefit units within it. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And what would that -- what would that district be called? Nothing specific? No numbers? MS. HODGSON: Solid waste district. Yes, no numbers. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Solid waste district. And the reason I say that is I'm always the district that bears the confusion because FDOT has a District 1, but it's not me. It's a bigger thing. And so when I saw the chart and it looked like everything in light blue is now District 1, I was, like, okay, you're making it better for these guys, worse for me. So you just answered that question. Because there is that confusion a lot of times by people in my district. They'll hear FDOT say something that they're doing in District 1, and they think it's us. And we don't -- you know, we're trying to alleviate. So you're spot on. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Kowal. March 4, 2025 Page 91 COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. I really liked this presentation. It's very informative, and I really do think this is a very important thing we all need to discuss and get ahead of. It may not affect us personally, but it will affect this county and the people that come behind us, and they'll say, "You know what, thank God these guys thought of this." But I did -- in the last couple slides, when you were showing expansion to the east, the expansion to the two preserve areas, you actually assigned some numbers to them like the life, you extend -- one of them says almost 300 years, 298 years of capacity. But I didn't see anything -- because we discussed earlier that, you know, moving some of this acreage to the north, which is a possibility on property we already own. Was there any studies to what -- how many years that can add or what portion of that footprint we could use to increase -- because I know the two little parcels at the bottom doesn't appear to really add a whole lot, like 20 years or something. MS. HODGSON: Yeah. I'm going to ask Daniel to also elaborate on the life of eastward, move it based on the analysis that was performed, because I think that's important to clarify the -- how far out the analysis went on that eastern property. Daniel. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm not so concerned about the eastern, because we have to buy that. We don't have to buy what's north. MS. HODGSON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm just curious how much life we'll add going to the north. MR. DIETCH: So we have not conducted that analysis. We don't have the authority to change the PUD. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go ahead. March 4, 2025 Page 92 MR. DIETCH: But hearing that, if we could -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's why we're here. MR. DIETCH: Yeah. If we could advance one slide. There are some planned activities. So the reason that we showed the previous slide is to show, to identify where yard trash, where your construction and demolition debris or Class 3 materials are being sorted on the landfill today. They need to be moved off the landfill to build out the landfill as it's currently permitted. And they are designated for placement on the Resource Recovery Business Park. And you'll probably notice on the right-hand side, there was a very large area for disaster debris management. And again, trying to be forward thinking, what are the kinds of related uses that support solid waste management and disaster recovery. Space, it's -- you know, it's constrained, but it's also fungible within those constraints. If it is the will, with the exception of the deep injection well, which is in place, as well as some of the planned other county activities within the Resource Recovery Business Park, there is some flexibility, but there are lakes, and maybe the lakes could be filled in, right? There's a lot of thought that needs to be -- or a lot of consideration that needs to be managed to figure out, as was stated at the prior workshop, how much juice can be squeezed out of that fruit. Because size in this case does matter, not just for how high you can get -- and it's a point that I did not make on the southern expansion. Because of the width of those sections, you can't get to the otherwise permitted height. So that's part of the reason that it diminishes the value of developing those areas. So, again, it is not rocket science, but it would benefit us to have, you know, direction to, "Well, go explore this and report back to us," which has been the approach that has worked sufficiently over the last 20-plus years between your professional staff and the County March 4, 2025 Page 93 Commission, because you really shouldn't leave stones unturned if there might be something beneficial under. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That has been a really thorough and very well-done presentation. I certainly appreciate it. Anyone registered to speak? Anybody online or anything? MR. MILLER: No. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we don't have any public speakers. Commissioner McDaniel, I see you're lit up again. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I already gave direction to the County Attorney to begin the amendment of the PUD, just so you know. I would make a recommendation. I know we can't vote on anything, but it would be my wish -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Consider it now. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- to consider your recommendations for all three of these action items to be on the radar plus the other things that this board has talked about today. The -- and again, optimization of everything doesn't all have to happen at once. Scalability is an important factor; where we go, how we go, what we do, and so on. So don't take bioreactors out just because you can't do all eight of them at one shot. Don't -- so that would be my recommendation, that we go forward on all three action items along with that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Maybe we can break this down into some pieces here, because the Action Item No. 3 is a pretty broad action item. Action Items 1 and 2 are -- I think are fairly simple. The County Attorney would be involved in amending the ordinance and amending the operating agreement. So I think there certainly is consensus, I would assume, to have -- COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes. March 4, 2025 Page 94 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- the staff do that. Let's talk a little bit more for just a minute about No. 3 because, basically, I think if we just say, "Go do No. 3," that doesn't really give you a whole lot of direction. Because you've got every item on here that you would have to look at, and I think a couple of them are perhaps not worth looking at right away. So just as an example, Commissioner McDaniel, you pointed out that expansion to the south you believe would create some tremendous problems. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: To the east, not to the south. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry, to the east. I meant to the east. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I actually like the idea of the expansion to the south. We'd have to redo some water management things. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's what -- and that's what I was getting at. I just used the wrong direction. That, you know, let's eliminate -- for our discussion today and direction to our staff, eliminate the things that we feel right now that are just not doable, but let's focus on the things that are. So expansion to the east is a problem, but expansion to the south may be worth looking at; is that correct? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, you know, maybe just to simplify it is -- and to the north as well. I mean, just to simplify it. I don't want to discount going to the east at all, because we may have an opportunity at some stage to acquire more land or do something out there. But I think for now, just modifying the direction to staff that we negotiate with the expansion of the operations in a cost-feasible manner is a good enough description. I mean, we can -- we can -- we already own the land to the south. We already own the land to the north. So those are the most March 4, 2025 Page 95 cost-feasible places that I think we should focus our energies on right now. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I agree, because it just -- it makes sense that -- because those lands, permitting-wise, too, are much easier that we can acquire, you know, the long process and arduous process of getting the permitting because they're already attached to parts of our project anyways, and -- you know, and it's not costing the taxpayers any more money to purchase land. And even if we get -- you know, we're looking -- we're looking at some crazy numbers, 300 years. Like you said, that's a lot of years. If we can gain 90 years, 100 years out of this north and south, I mean, that's a step in the right direction that, you know -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: By then, new technology will be available. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then the other item that we've discussed is the Immokalee Landfill. And I think it's worthwhile for staff to look at reclaiming that landfill and maybe even possibly expanding it. I don't like the thought that we would be reliant on sending waste out of the county. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agreed. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Because, regardless, it's our waste. If something breaks down along the way, you know, if the landfill we're sending it to closes, we have to have capacity. So I think adding that, kind of, to the list would be beneficial. So let us know what that would entail and how much life we can get out of something like that. Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I think we have to be careful about the wordage we use when we dismiss you-all from this table. I understand what's being said here. "Oh, going out to the east March 4, 2025 Page 96 would be problematic, but maybe not south or north." I think smaller baby steps are, we need analysis on all the directions. If not, you know what the front page of the paper's going to say tomorrow? "Collier County Commissioners decide that moving east is impossible, so they're going to move south." Okay. I think we'll start to hear from people south that go, "When did that happen?" So -- I don't think anybody is saying that, but I think just a smaller baby step saying, "We know we need to analyze all the different directions of what makes the most sense." We own land in certain areas, and just being able to say, you know, we're not force- feeding something in a certain direction and ruling out a certain direction. Commissioner McDaniel's right, there's certain directions that become problematic, but this isn't the meeting to say it's off the table, and nobody was saying that. But I just wanted to sort of clarify and say that, you know, one of the homework assignments here is do the analysis and then, you know, we take a look and see, "Hey, down the road, what sounds the most feasible and the reasons why," is what I would say. And we're kind of saying that, but just wanted to clarify it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then just as a point, Commissioner Saunders, you talked about Action Item No. 3 being maybe a little bit broad, but if we just -- if we just added the language, "time frame, cost feasibility to secure additional properties," not just -- and not specify the eastern properties as direction to our staff, are you okay with Action Item No. 3 if we changed eastern to add -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I just -- my concern was simply that if we just simply go do your analysis on everything, we do have some limited capacity to evaluate everything, and that's -- March 4, 2025 Page 97 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agreed. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- all I was trying to get at to try to get more of a rifle shot as opposed to a, you know, shotgun shot in terms of coming back to us, because we do have some time to evaluate things, but... Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. I think what we're saying is, as far as direction, is we'll keep our eyes and ears open to new technology to wherever that can apply, the landfill reclamation, that we're going to look at the Immokalee Landfill where that concerns, and then the smartest way to expand the existing landfill. We're just kind of narrowing it down for those three areas. Would that be a fair assumption? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That sounds good to me. Is that -- everybody sort of concur with that then? All right. Anything else you need to have from us? MR. DIETCH: I don't mean to be gratuitous, but I do want to thank all of you because so often we see that decisions are made when facing a crisis. You are not in a crisis, and it's really owed to the hard work that your professional staff have been doing over the past few decades. So thank you for allocating this time and entertaining the conversation and providing your feedback. That gives us clear direction on where we're moving to. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Again, a very good presentation, so thank you for that. Ms. Patterson, we have one other item left on our workshop, but do you have any idea approximately how long that would take? Is that a one-hour thing or a three-hour thing? What's your best guess? COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Two more. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have two more? COMMISSIONER HALL: Strategic planning and ResourceX. March 4, 2025 Page 98 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ah, okay. MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, the reason I was asking -- started that discussion is should we break for lunch? COMMISSIONER HALL: I say yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Everybody sort of agree? All right. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was not listening to you. Imagine that. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Do you want to break for lunch? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're going to take a break for lunch? Yes. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: This is a big change. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then how much time do we need? Now, I brought my lunch, so I'm good with 15 minutes, but... COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Come back at 1. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One o'clock, is that enough? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One o'clock is fine. COMMISSIONER HALL: One o'clock is great. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We will be in recess until 1 o'clock. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you don't mind me eating on the dais, I'll bring it in here. (A luncheon recess was had from 12:13 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.) MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Ms. Patterson, let's go to the -- Item #2C March 4, 2025 Page 99 STRATEGIC PLANNING - PRESENTED BY MICHAEL NIEMAN (DIVISION DIRECTOR - STRATEGIC INITIATIVES) AND CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON (DIVISION DIRECTOR - CORPORATE FINANCIAL & MANAGEMENT SERVICES) – DISCUSSED MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. That brings us to Item 2C and 2D. It looks like we're going to do a combo here. So we're going to start out with Item 2C, strategic planning. Is that where we're starting, Chris? MR. JOHNSON: Yep. MS. PATTERSON: All right. Mr. Chris Johnson is going to be here at the podium presenting, and we have some other guests at the table. So several people will be participating. Do you want to go ahead and let them introduce themselves while we -- MR. JOHNSON: Certainly. I'll start, guys. For the record, Christopher Johnson, your director of Corporate Financial and Management Services. MR. FABIAN: All right. Chris Fabian from Tyler Technologies, ResourceX, your partner in priority-based budgeting. MR. MUNIZ: Commissioners, Jesse Muniz, also with Tyler Technologies, ResourceX, head of customer success leading the implementation of this project. MR. NEIMAN: Good afternoon. Mike Neiman from Strategic Initiatives, our new division we have. Thank you. MR. JOHNSON: And we'll start with Mr. Neiman here and the Collier County strategic plan and priority projects. MR. NEIMAN: Thanks, Chris. Before I begin, I want to take this time to thank the Board for having this topic on the workshop today. This is a very important March 4, 2025 Page 100 item, and it's important that the Board takes ownership of the strategic plan. It's great that you-all are doing that. It wasn't always the case before, and it's important, and it's -- I want to give the Board recognition for doing that, and I appreciate that. I also want to take the time to thank the County Manager for her support of our division and what we're trying to accomplish and her leadership in this. The agenda for today, if you want to go forward, Chris, is briefly to talk about the current strategic plan. As you can see behind me, the two. The one on the left is the strategic plan, and that is what we created as our priority project list. We'll talk about those individually as we move forward. But just a brief recap of what we did last year and the recap of what we accomplished throughout the year as we reported some of these projects. Go ahead, Chris, follow through that. This is the framework we chose. Basically, each year our division goes through the framework to make sure its current relevant to the issues we see of the day. We review the current plan; we evaluate the priorities that we track throughout the year, which last year was 57 projects; and then we report them quarterly and publish them on the website. And then the last box is something that we're working with Chris Fabian and his team on linking some performance measurements to the strategy and to the programs that we offer. I think Chris will talk more about that as he gives his presentation later. But that's something that Chris Johnson and I have talked about for a couple years now, and I'm glad that ResourceX is here to help maybe implement that for us. This is the framework that we chose two years ago when we came before you to dramatically change the way we conducted our strategic planning process. At the top you'll see our vision, mission, March 4, 2025 Page 101 and values. They remain constant. We don't -- we're not asking to change those this years. Same with our focus areas. Those were the four general topics: The quality of place, infrastructure, community development, and responsible governance. And then the objectives are what we map a lot of our projects to, and those you see in the bullet points underneath the focus areas. And then last year we initiated the bottom purple box, which is the priority projects, that -- we may have gotten a little bit too aggressive, but we chose 57, which turned out to be a little bit too much for two people to handle, but -- we will go through those in a minute, but that's the final piece to the two-page strategic plan. This is a methodology that I kind of came up with after experiencing the 57 projects that were a little bit too much, and I came up with this -- kind of these three objectives. To make the list for the priority project list, it should have high visibility and importance to the Board, county staff, and the public. And the middle one is the important one we found that may not have been present, which is that there should be measurable work planned throughout the calendar year on these projects. Many of them have that; some did not. And then finally, they should be aligned with what Chris Fabian and Chris Johnson are trying to do with priority-based budgeting. And we believe that the ones we chose this year satisfy all three of those criteria. Next. You can skip that, Chris. And here is, again, the current strategic plan and the values the leads: Leadership, ethics, accountability, dedication, and service. The vision and mission, that's been with us for quite some time. Again, those things are not proposed to change moving forward. Same goes for the four focus areas. We believe those are still current and relevant and fit with what we're trying to accomplish. March 4, 2025 Page 102 And the objectives, again, still meet the same interests that we think meet the programs that ResourceX is trying to focus on and what Chris and budget team are focusing on. So those are going to be proposed to remain the same. Now, next is the second page, which is the priority list. Now, this one, as you can see, is quite extensive. A lot of these we're going to see in a few minutes proposed to remove from this list for a variety of reasons. One is completed, so that is why -- that one we removed. And others will simply be combined under one heading. So the partnership projects will continue. We'll still track them but under one heading, not the separate bullet points you see here. Same goes with Dr. George's programs in the northeast. They'll be -- we'll still monitor those programs but do it in one slide, not seven. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I interrupt real quick, just -- MR. NEIMAN: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I don't mean to -- well, I am interrupting, so I've already done it. I hate that when people -- "I don't mean to interrupt," but -- well, you already have. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm about to. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are these the 57 projects that -- or projects that you picked last year -- MR. NEIMAN: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- to be priorities? MR. NEIMAN: Yes, sir. And we tracked them each quarter. In the backup there is a copy of our last -- I believe out last quarterly report, which indicates the updates for the particular projects. And an example is the aquatics program. We tracked Sun-N-Fun so that we have the most recent updates up to last quarter on what they were doing. March 4, 2025 Page 103 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It wasn't even open, so there was nothing to track. MR. NEIMAN: It was tracking the development, sir, of Mr. DeLony. But, yeah. So there -- but a lot of these didn't have updates, and that's kind of why we're going to pare this down maybe to 25. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm not -- I don't -- I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but isn't this supposed to be more of a divisional departmental tracking thing? Couldn't that be dished off to those individual departments so that you became more -- as opposed to limiting your scope -- because I love what you're doing. But as opposed to limiting your scope, couldn't we -- couldn't we push these to the individual departments for -- with a written decree or a written list of dos and don'ts and reporting times and so ons and so forth so that you became -- your department became more of a checks and balance, if you will, so that when Sun-N-Fun's off project or Trinity's not getting a road built in time or something along those lines. MR. NEIMAN: Well, they're doing it currently. What we chose to do is highlight some high-level projects for public consumption, so it's always on the website. Because I found that a few years ago when I came back, that a lot of these projects you-all were asking for updates every meeting. And so I thought, wouldn't it be a good idea to put this somewhere where we're tracking them on a regular basis, so if you wanted an update, you potentially could look on the website and kind of see in a general form. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The public could look at the website? MR. NEIMAN: Absolutely. So it was kind of an education in transparency attempt. But, yeah -- no, division's still -- the ones that we are removing March 4, 2025 Page 104 or asking to remove are going to be tracked by the divisions themselves in their own method. Go ahead, Chris. This just discusses how we evaluate each of these throughout the year, and then in December, go through and make sure that we're ready for this workshop and whether or not we want to make substantive changes. But let me go back. The intent of the strategic plan itself, on the first page was to be a three- to five-year document. And we're beginning Year 3 of that current iteration, so I think it's still relevant. So I don't expect to make any changes for the next few years. But again, the next slide will show how we mapped. That's the corner -- the bottom left corner is a copy of the table that we issue each quarter, and in that table it will have the priority, the department, the alignment with a strategic plan focus area, a description of what is going to be accomplished for that priority, and then finally the farthest right column is the update, and it will give the update each quarter as to what the staff is doing on that particular project. And ultimately, we -- I guess on the right you'll see the annual report. We kind of tied that with our life cycle of strategic planning, and then, essentially at the end of the year, we wrote an updated annual report that highlighted on the accomplishments of the county staff, and so that is another area of how we kind of circled the wagon on that. Okay. Chris. Yeah. This just indicates that we tracked the progress of the 57 projects on a quarterly basis. We summarized the results and then published the report each quarter on the website for transparency and visibility. In doing so, when I would evaluate the reports each quarter, things became clear that there were some projects that had March 4, 2025 Page 105 some flaws in our tracking, and it was -- and it would have been my fault, not staff's fault, because I think we went too big on some of them. So sometimes the scope was too big. Sometimes there were some outside resources that were holding projects up so there were no real updates because of either FDOT or other federal agencies that were involved. And some of the projects that were broken into multiple phases, then it became kind of a headache for us. And some of the projects were more operational in nature, which belonged in the divisions. It shouldn't -- it didn't deserve the tracking that we were doing at this high level. And then the final one was the one that caught my attention was that some of these just didn't have meaningful work to report. So we were just saying "no updates" each quarter. So we figured if there are going to be no updates, we may as well remove them from the list. Which leads to the last bullet point, which is our focus going forward in 2025 is to reduce the number only for those critical achievable priorities for the current year, and we tracked them in a calendar year, not fiscal year. And these are the proposed changes moving forward for this year. Again, no proposed changes to the actual strategic plan itself, the focus areas or objectives. Only you'll see in a minute that visual appearance is a little bit different, and that was done to kind of coincide with the rebranding efforts of our communications division. So no changes to those areas. And the next one, Chris. That's what that would look like. That is the proposed new strategic plan that we would publish. And then if you want to go back real quick, Chris, to the one before. March 4, 2025 Page 106 And then we proposed to remove that 57 number to 25. Twenty-four of those would be simply removed for the reasons we discussed earlier, and 11 of them would be combined into three existing priority projects. So those 11 wouldn't go away; they would simply just roll up under another one. Go ahead. And so that would be it. And this would be the proposed second page. The life cycle, it looks a little bit different, which kind of tells us what we do each quarter in the life cycle of strategic planning and -- but the priorities would fall underneath those headings. And I think there are 25 there. But, of course, we're open to the Board to add or subtract from that list here today if there are any other -- something we may have missed. But that is the proposed strategic plan for next year -- or this year, actually. Go ahead, Chris. Thanks. And that's just a list of ones we're removing, and there's a variety of reasons as to why. Those -- a lot of those are real -- still real priorities. They made more sense to live in the divisions or departments who own them, and some of them are more, again, operational. The asset management plan's very important; we're doing this every day. But it's something that we felt, after discussing with the County Manager, that it shouldn't make this particular list. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. So, Mike, as I'm looking at this, you know -- and I do, I get it, the scope needs to shrink a little bit. But in keeping balance between what is too much versus what is manageable -- MR. NEIMAN: Yeah. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- I would like to see that in these determinations that business as usual is challenged. MR. NEIMAN: Right. COMMISSIONER HALL: I don't want to make these March 4, 2025 Page 107 determinations based on just business as usual. Well, we couldn't get this done in this amount of time in the past, so we're going to go ahead and just put that off. I just would like to see that -- you know, with division leaders and stuff, like that, I'd like to see that challenged as well as made manageable, if that makes any sense at all. MR. NEIMAN: It did. It certainly did. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Maybe to you. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, there are some big things on here that -- you know, and when you use the word "removed," you know, people that see slides that aren't sitting in this briefing right now that will go, "Wow, they're not going to even focus on that," you know. So, you know, maybe the wordage could be better. It's not like you're going to ignore these things, but you're trying to skinny down to the things you're going to do a deep dive into, but we're not ignoring these things. There's some -- there's some pretty meaty ones on here, but -- you know. I know we can do anything, can't do everything, but... COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And if I can clarify, they're not being removed from our strategic focus. They're -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Right. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- just being removed from your strategic focus necessarily. They're still being necessarily attended to. We're not -- we're not going to give up on affordable housing. MR. NEIMAN: Of course not. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I mean -- but it's not going to be something that your department is going to -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: That clarity should be on there, though, because this is a Collier County slide. Bottom right, March 4, 2025 Page 108 you know, the logo says "Collier County." So if somebody got these slides and had no benefit of this briefing and got them in the mail or just saw them posted online -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- or watched this without the -- without the audio, it would be, you know, front-page news. So there might be just some better verbiage to explain what we're really focusing on here. MR. NEIMAN: Understood. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: "Redirected priorities." Because you're going to be able to shift those back to the individual departments we have. We have a housing department that can help and oversee with that. We're not -- we're not removing affordable housing as a priority. We're just -- it's redirected back to the department where it needs to be living. I'm using that as the example because it's the first one. MR. NEIMAN: Right. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Beach parking is another. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Or I would say -- you know, I mean, we're just at a workshop here. We're talking. But you have the priorities you're focused on, but then these could be county focus areas, so it's not -- you're not doing a deep dive into this, but you're keeping them on our list. But just the word "removed" on a county slide is dangerous, especially when that's not the intention. MR. NEIMAN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Department in-house priorities. MR. NEIMAN: Next, Chris. I think we're wrapping it up here. That's -- you can skip that one. That's the proposed combination. And then briefly, you know, our role with priority-based March 4, 2025 Page 109 budgeting is that we believe we have to make sure that the plan itself is aligned with what they're trying to do and accomplish, so our team is working with ResourceX on the next phases of their implementation of priority-based budgeting. And so it simply reflects that we are mindful of that, and everything that we do is tied to what they're trying to accomplish as well. And I think lastly should be the next steps. And the next steps is to take the feedback from you-all today to finalize this set of priority projects moving forward to present that list to you for approval in a few meetings from now, and then the last one is, again, to establish a framework to initiate some performance measurements or metrics working with Chris Fabian and his team from ResourceX. And those are our next steps. That should be it. MR. JOHNSON: That's it. MR. NEIMAN: That's it. Any questions or comments? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You know, let me ask you a question, because I'm a little dense here and I'm missing something. These removed priorities are not really removed priorities, but they're going to be placed somewhere else. MR. NEIMAN: Correct. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And you're removing them because 57, or whatever that number was, was a fairly large number. MR. NEIMAN: Yep. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But I'm not sure I understand that. MR. NEIMAN: It wasn't -- that may be the focus. It was a lot of it didn't have the meaningful updates each quarter. So when we were tracking these, for whatever reason, there was a gap in what staff was working on, so it became -- the intent was to provide a quarterly report on the progress on these reports. And we found that some of them we were having no updates, and some were removed for that reason. Other -- the majority of them are asked to be shifted March 4, 2025 Page 110 back to the divisions because they were more operational. They weren't projects, per se. The asset management plans and some of the other HR functions were something that we felt didn't belong on this particular list. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So on your list that you're going to keep, could you have a line and then say, "Priorities shifted to the departments," and then list -- just put these, and that solves the problem of them being removed. MR. NEIMAN: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. MR. JOHNSON: Anything else on this, gentlemen, before we move on to the inside update from ResourceX on the priority-based budgeting? All right. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did. MR. JOHNSON: Oh, sorry. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just -- and this -- and this maybe is what we just got done saying, but on the slide right before the next steps, or the -- is, you know, the combined priority. Maybe the next slide up. Those. Right there. I was looking at those, and those are almost operational things that could be -- you know, Dr. George and his department does a wonderful job with our utilities. It's an enterprise fund. Same with stormwater. It's necessarily under one house. We're not -- we're not -- are these proposed changes to add in for 25 or being redirected? MR. NEIMAN: These combined -- we tracked these last year, and they were great updates. We felt that the different phases should be just merged into one "water resources" heading but keep track in our table -- we would differentiate in the table, you know, Phase 1, Phase 2, tanks, pump station. And it would be in the table itself. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you for that March 4, 2025 Page 111 clarification. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Johnson. MR. JOHNSON: All right. Thank you, Mike. MR. NEIMAN: Thanks. MR. JOHNSON: All right. I've just got to pull up my slides here. Give me one second. It's moving on its own. Item #2D BUDGET/ RESOURCE X - PRESENTED BY CHRIS FABIAN (TYLER TECHNOLOGIES) AND JESSE MUNIZ (TYLER TECHNOLOGIES) – DISCUSSED MR. JOHNSON: All right. Commissioners, again, Chris Johnson, your director of OMB, for the record. Today we're going to go through -- it's kind of exciting. It's been about a year since we started ResourceX. And I know we've -- this summer we went through a few of -- the ROI report and these program insights. Today we're going to give you an update on ResourceX program insights and kind of what the departments in the county have accomplished to date, what we're looking at in the future. And I'll just start by kind of going through an overview, and then we'll go through the implemented insights that have already been implemented, we'll go to the in-process opportunities that we're working through, and then a few additional opportunities that are also kind of in the works or on the horizon. Just to kind of orient us here, I'm going to quickly go over an overview. We received the draft report -- sorry -- the draft return on investment report in July of 2024. From there, we -- the report contained 381 programs that were included and kind of analyzed. Of those programs, 957 insights and example case studies came out March 4, 2025 Page 112 of that. During your summer regular board meetings, we had a couple meetings where we talked about some of the insights we were going to look into and where we were going to head with that expansive list of insights. So the insights included multiple different types. We had in-sourcing insights, revenue generation insights, grant opportunities, efficiency insights, and partnership insights. That's kind of background on the insights. So the first thing I wanted to go through was kind of some of the implemented insights that we've accomplished in the time since we started this about a year ago. So this is a summary, and I have individual slides on all these that we can go through briefly, but I just wanted to give you guys the overall view of what has been implemented. The total there is about $37.3 million. We go down here, we have our workforce prioritization pool. We have grants for Palm River and Naples Park. PUD financial operations has adjusted user fees, impact fees, and implemented the charges for the credit cards on their end. TMSD, road and bridge, Trinity's area, they've adjusted the mulch they're using, the inefficiency there. Landscape maintenance contracts have been rebid. They're still in the process of being rebid. This has allowed for some redirection of ad valorem dollars there. Irrigation controllers and IQ water. We've updated irrigation controllers to control irrigation flows and switched over a few of our medians -- actually, I think it was substantial, and we'll get into that in the slide -- to IQ water instead of regular potable water. That CAT -- the CAT buses, we've updated the data plan, which resulted in a savings of about $19,000. Pollution control has updated their fee schedule. March 4, 2025 Page 113 The Airport Authority has also updated their fee schedule. Within the stormwater maintenance area, we received a legislative appropriation for an aquatic weed harvester. That was about $116,000. In the Facilities and CRAs department, we've received a grant for additional land purchase for a stormwater project to the tune of a million dollars. And finally, in our Growth Management and Community Development area, they also updated their fee schedule, and the expected revenue for this year based on early projections is $4.9 million. So I'm going to go through a couple of these in a little bit more detail. So overall, this will kind of tie into -- the first slide here's on the countywide reorganization, and this will -- this will kind of tie into the workforce prioritization pool. As you see here, some of the organizational changes we've streamlined the management structure. We've merged Real Property with Right-of-Way under Transportation. We've centralized financial operations under my division for a few of the areas that had individual financial -- financial staff. We've pulled them under an umbrella. We've centralized grants under Transportation and CHS. Transportation is handling our infrastructure grants, and CHS is handling our programmatic grants. We've created the Strategic Initiatives division, which is Mike's division. Facilities in the CRAs have combined. Fleet has gone under the CBO, putting all of our internal services under the CBO umbrella now. And we've also consolidated Transportation's capital projects under the Transportation Engineering section. Any questions on that from anybody? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: CBO. MR. JOHNSON: Sorry. Corporate business operations. Too March 4, 2025 Page 114 many three letter words, right? All right. Now, what has this -- what has this reorganization done? You can see here this is the workforce prioritization pool. We're all familiar with this. The projected savings are about 2.6 million for this year within this pool. Over on the left-hand side there you can see we've included a Deputy County Manager within that pool, department head, two division directors, four managers, four supervisors, and 19 other nonmanagement positions that are currently sitting in there. Now, throughout the year, we will obviously be diving in there for a strategic alignment with what we're doing with positions, but I think so far this year we've had one out and one in, so it's been a net zero change within -- within that actual cost center. Because we've organized these as their own individual cost centers. Any questions on the workforce prioritization pool? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No one's lit up, so... MR. JOHNSON: All right. I'll just keep on moving on then. Public Utilities Engineering Department, they've received $10.5 million in grants this year. Three million for Palm River septic-to-sewer conversion, 4.5 million for Naples Park, and another 3 million for the Palm River Areas 3, 5 and 6. And you'll see another number there that kind of comes in a future summary here. They've applied for additional grant revenue of about $28.9 million. Financial planning under Public Utilities, again, they've updated their user fees, their impact fees, and they've implemented that credit card processing fee for the customers. The total projected additional revenue on that is $16.5 million. The majority of that is attributable to the user fee updates. Landscape beautification, we just briefly went over this, but overall savings of 98,000 in '24, 35,000 so far this year, and I believe that was just the color of the mulch that we changed from our March 4, 2025 Page 115 own -- if I'm correct there, Trinity -- from our own special to cocoa brown. So there's an efficiency there. Landscape beautification, again, we increased bid competition, put all the landscape contracts out on the street to rebid with basic services, and we're bidding separate irrigation pump services and, again, mulching contracts. So that has allowed us to reallocate approximately a million dollars to date. Irrigation, this is the control systems with Motorola smart controllers. The 122 miles of irrigation now go through radio control towers to allow us to monitor them. In addition, as I spoke upon earlier, 70 miles of irrigation have been switched over to reclaim irrigation water, which is a significant cost savings. CAT buses, again, this is the WiFi access. Staff looked at the contracts and updated to a more reasonable plan, saving $19,000 a year. Pollution control, as you know, this is one of your ad valorem funds. By updating the fee model, they're projecting 162,000 in additional revenue annually to offset ad valorem. Airports, again, they updated their fee schedule, CPI increases on aeronautical land leases, monthly vehicle parking and storage fees, increased minimal fuel purchases required to waive fees. Tie-down overnight parking fees increased and -- increased for after-hours services. Again, they also looked at their fuel pricing methodology and administrative recovery costs. This is generating an additional $65,000 annually. And this is the Weedoo. This things looks pretty cool. Is that what's it's called? The Weedoo or the weed harvester? MS. PATTERSON: Weedoo. It's an aqua harvester. MR. JOHNSON: Weedoo, Weedoo. It looks kind of fun to drive, but this was a legislative appropriation for 115-, $116,000 to mechanically harvest weeds within our canals, which again, this is a March 4, 2025 Page 116 pilot, could -- moving forward, it could lead to additional savings because we do spray in our canals, and this may be more cost effective and potentially environmentally friendly. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is there any way for us to track that? Because we all know intuitively those are wonderful things, and we're not putting pesticides in our water and our groundwater. Is there any way to track those intuitive potential savings, or just watch it, how it goes? MR. JOHNSON: I can tell you, we can -- we can definitely track the -- what are we doing with the Weedoo costs, because we have asset management that we're using work orders -- compared to the spraying. As far as environmental effects, I'd have to talk to someone in pollution. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can that Weedoo pull up seagrass? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Quit. Thou shalt not touch seagrass, remember. MR. JOHNSON: Any other questions on the aquatic weed harvester? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I just have a quick one. Chris, did we buy this or lease this? MR. JOHNSON: We bought it. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We bought it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It was with a grant. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Grant money. MR. JOHNSON: Yep. So it was -- I believe it was 100 percent covered. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, you've got here "apply for state grant," but we got the grant money. MR. JOHNSON: Yes, we did, and we purchased it with that. All right. The next one is for the CRA, Bayshore CRA, a March 4, 2025 Page 117 million dollar grant for land acquisition, which I believe the plan is to utilize that for a purchase of property to expand stormwater pond capacity in the district. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Wonderful. MR. JOHNSON: And this is for Growth Management and Community Development. As you know, on -- I believe it was last June. Right down there, yep -- June 25th, 2024, the Board approved their updated fee schedule. That is estimated to generate an additional $4.9 million in revenue in '25. The -- there is currently a study as well moving forward to right-size these fees further. This included additions for things we weren't charging for, like a new FEMA review fee, and also fees for permit extensions, et cetera. Any questions on any of those at all? (No response.) MR. JOHNSON: That concludes the already implemented insights. You guys -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall has some comments or questions. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. Chris, I get it, you know, where we're implementing the efficiencies and the insights. Those are permanent and those are predictable, but the grants -- you know, in that 37 million, I think the grants were a little over maybe 12 million, and those are temporal with the exception of we get to keep the asset for the Weedoo. MR. JOHNSON: Correct. COMMISSIONER HALL: But that's small potatoes compared to the rest of it. But those grants are -- they're nonpredictable and they're temporal. And I'm hoping that as we get in the end process opportunities we're going to get to -- get to the real meat of what's predictable and what's permanent. Don't let me down, Chris. MR. JOHNSON: I'm diving in right now. I'm diving in right March 4, 2025 Page 118 now. So the next step is our in-process opportunities. Here's the list on these. And I mean, if the Board likes, I can go through them slide by slide, or I can just kind of summarize them on this slide for you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What's the preference of the Board? You want to just hear the summaries or -- COMMISSIONER HALL: Just the summaries. MR. JOHNSON: Okay. So, again, the -- I kind of pointed out on the additional -- on the additional -- the initial, sorry, PUD slide, the -- that the department has applied for an additional 28.9 million in grants. That includes 25 million for the Golden Gate wastewater plant and a pump station as well and a septic-to-sewer conversion. CHS is looking at implementing fees for affordable housing monitoring. That could produce an additional $250,000 in revenue. The CRAs are looking at partnerships for their holiday decorations, getting sponsors for that. That has the potential to offset about $20,000. Strategic initiatives, libraries looking at fee schedule, nonresident and program fee schedules; that could introduce additional revenue of about $150,000. Human resources is partnering with the universities for professional development. That has the potential to save about $150,000. Stormwater, we're looking at the potential for a specific stormwater fee and/or revenue source. Current -- the current budget policy for moving into '26 is allocating about $20.5 million from ad valorem revenue for that purpose. So looking into those additional revenue sources to fund that is on the horizon. CAT, they're looking at potentially advertising on our fixed-route buses. That has the potential to raise us a million dollars a year. March 4, 2025 Page 119 Again, another grant with engineering. A lot of these grants go to our roads which, Commissioner, we do -- we do keep -- again, get to use, but again, there is upkeep associated with those in maintenance. But looking at CIGP trip grants for Pine Ridge and Santa Barbara widening, that's to the tune of $12 million. SCOP grants for Immokalee Road widening and a few improvements out east, 1.2 million -- I'm sorry -- 1.9 million. This one I know the Board -- I believe it was two years ago during the budget cycle we discussed Immokalee Road and the Immokalee Road corridor, and we put into our five-year plan $40 million to try to move forward with the Immokalee interchange. Through a partnership with FDOT -- I know Trinity's been working really hard on that. FDOT has moved that up into their plan, and they're also planning on providing us an additional $2 million for utility relocations, and that has a -- that partnership has a value of about $55.7 million. Looking at Facilities, they also are looking at -- I'm sorry. Parks and Recreation, they're also looking at their fee schedule with the potential to update and right-size fees for their sports facilities and other facilities. That has the potential for $250,000 in additional revenue. And then within Growth Management, they're also looking at expedited site plan review fees with the potential of $75,000 and then transferring the cost of some of these community studies onto the area that the studies affect, which has the potential for a million dollars in additional revenue. And finally, we have DAS strategic partnerships through animal welfare vets and other organizations with the potential to raise about $1.5 million. So I'm not sure if that answered your question, Commissioner Hall, but these are a lot of the insights that are currently in process March 4, 2025 Page 120 that we're working towards. COMMISSIONER HALL: You danced at it. That doesn't quite get to where I want to get to, but I understand the process. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Chair? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And just on a couple of notes as we're going through here. When are we going to have a more broadened discussion on the stormwater revenue? MR. JOHNSON: You're talking the stormwater utility potentially or revenue? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. MR. JOHNSON: I believe that's in -- that the plan for that is to start looking at that at the end of this year, like -- am I right, Trinity? -- with the potential implementation in '27, for FY '27. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I thought it was determined, and then under -- and that isn't okay. I'd rather we talk about it sooner than '27. But I mean, it's okay if that's what we're going to do, but I think if it's implemented properly, that we don't have to wait till '27. We can effectuate a very subjective adjustment in how we're utilizing our ad valorem money with a -- with a ramp-up on that -- on that utility fee, so -- but my -- as far as advertising on the CAT bus, I thought we decided some time ago that we really couldn't do that without opening Pandora's box to allow anybody to advertise. MR. JOHNSON: I'm going to look to Trinity on this. I don't know the specifics. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Trinity's coming. And while Trinity's coming -- don't go away, Chris. And while she's coming up, what's CIGP, SCOP? I know what FDOT stands for. But what do those other two stand for? MR. JOHNSON: She can answer those questions for you as well. March 4, 2025 Page 121 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MS. SCOTT: CIGP is County Incentive Grant Program. It's a special grant program through a discretionary grant program through the Florida Department of Transportation, and SCOP is Small County Outreach Program, which is a program that allows us to add paved shoulders specifically within the Immokalee area. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We've been doing that already, haven't we? MS. SCOTT: We put in for these grant programs. We utilize our five-year program as the basis. So actually, what we're doing is offsetting things that we already have programmed within our five-year program. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Thank you. MS. SCOTT: And with regard to CAT advertising, it is something that we've been working through the County Attorney's Office. You're correct, it is a very difficult item to move forward with. There has been some recent litigation in a county to the north of us, and we're kind of waiting to see how that all plays out to determine if we're going to be bringing that back. But it is still something that we want to keep on the radar that if we can make something work, that we would want to bring that to the Board to give that opportunity. MR. KLATZKOW: You cannot regulate content, so the concern was always, on a bus, for, like, an abortion sign or whatever, and that's why we've always -- when we do advertising, we tend to do it inside so that the public doesn't see it. But it's a content management issue. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And we had a fairly lengthy presentation on that, Commissioner Saunders, you may recall better than I, but it just became extremely complicated because we lifted the lid on Pandora's box, and once we started, we really March 4, 2025 Page 122 couldn't prohibit anybody unless -- unless it was just absolutely vulgar. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We just decided not to do it. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so we decided not to do it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We could always take another look at it, but that was -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. And before you go away -- and I wanted to add -- I wanted to touch on the diverging diamond at Immokalee Road. Didn't we get a report at the MPO that the DOT, through their value engineering on the Moving Florida Initiative, is going to pick up that interchange improvements at 75? MS. SCOTT: That's exactly what Chris was saying. In our five-year program, we had allocated $40 million towards that, but Florida Department of Transportation is going to foot that bill now, so the Board of County Commissioners and the taxpayers of Collier County will not be. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just for a little clarification, because Ms. Scott directed us in this. By putting it in our program and funding it, Ms. Scott was of the opinion that by doing that we would ultimately be able to get the FDOT to pick it up. So that was a strategic plan on your part that worked out. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Outstanding. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Too bad you don't get 10 percent of the -- MS. SCOTT: Listen, I was in the back with my calculator out, Commissioner McDaniel, 10 percent. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I'd be happy to do that if somebody would make the motion. And, Chris, if you would, just as one last point, for future reference, I'd like to see timelines on these estimates of reallocation March 4, 2025 Page 123 and things that are in process, when you expect to see them, and then -- so we have track-ability when we're looking into the future as to whether or not we choose to advertise on the buses, what we -- on the CAT transport, whether or not we do that and whether or not we've received enough revenue to make it worthwhile, so on and so forth, on all of these, just -- because this -- when Commissioner Hall looks at these things, it's already supposed to have happened. And it's -- yeah, exactly. MR. JOHNSON: That was the first section, these ones. And if I may, Commissioner, we'll provide the commissioners with the full deck. They do have implementation timelines on the slides. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. MR. JOHNSON: It's just not in the summary table. It was getting too small when I included everything in it, and I -- you know, hard to read on a prompter, so... CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Kowal. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. Yeah. I know when we had started this a little over a year and a half ago, a year ago -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Two. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- with ResourceX and moving forward, and I think initially our game plan was to take this deep dive and find all this fat and, you know, this, this, and that to cut. And, I mean, I'm even looking at some of this in-process opportunities summary, and if you really break it down, I mean, our whole idea was to save taxpayers money and have the government run more efficient, streamline. And even if you look at these numbers, when you take the seven -- or revenue programs, so basically we're just charging the citizens to use these programs. So that's about $25 million. So that's still a tax. Grants, $44 million worth of grants. Those are still March 4, 2025 Page 124 taxes, right? MR. JOHNSON: (Nods head.) COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Fifty-five million from the state for Move Florida Forward, those are taxes, right? MR. JOHNSON: (Nods head.) COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So we're well over that number, half of what we were talking about savings. And then, I mean, in reality -- I mean, are we just getting to the point where we're not -- we're not as fat as we thought we were in the way we operate, or are we just reaching for things to say, well, this is -- you know, these are -- this is what we're saving, but in reality we're just -- MR. JOHNSON: Well -- and if I may, Commissioner -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's all coming from the same source, right? MR. JOHNSON: Theoretically, the way you're saying that, grants are tax dollars that go up to the federal government -- or the state, they come back down. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Tax dollars. Government doesn't create their own money. MR. JOHNSON: Revenues are generated for specific programs. What I will say is -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Fees, right? MR. JOHNSON: Through fees, correct; for the actual users of it instead of being a tax where -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Everybody uses their water. MR. JOHNSON: Yes, exactly. But the people who actually use it get paid [sic], you know, based on their usage. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Stormwater. MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, whereas a tax -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Indirectly, everybody uses it. MR. JOHNSON: Indirectly, correct. March 4, 2025 Page 125 COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Indirectly. MR. JOHNSON: I will just point out again -- and I know I brought this up last Tuesday, but with the reduction in the millage rate, we have saved our local taxpayers $152 million over the last two years. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I agree with you. MR. JOHNSON: So when you ask about the -- where we -- how close we are to the bone, keep in mind that when we -- when we do that, we are now operating more lean. I mean $152 [sic] a year. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm not saying you aren't. What I'm saying is we've come into a reality. We've come into a point where ResourceX and the work you guys are doing in saying that -- you know, reality, we weren't wasting as much money as we thought we were or vice versa. Because, you know, there's not, like, real, like, this big, like, hidden thing that we discovered that we were, you know, like -- MR. JOHNSON: Well -- and to your point, I think there's always room to continue to evaluate, look at our programs, look at our process, make -- COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I think the process is great. MR. JOHNSON: -- them more efficient. And you're actually going to give me a great segue right here to Mr. Fabian to talk about -- talk about what our next steps are with ResourceX, and it does involve looking now -- now we have program data -- looking at process data. And I'll -- with that, I can turn it over to him, or if you guys still have some more questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I've got a few more commissioners. Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. Tell me how the stormwater thing works. I'm brain dead on March 4, 2025 Page 126 that right now. Are we going to charge for stormwater? MS. PATTERSON: This is an old wound. So we have the ability, via Florida Statute, to charge what is called a -- oh, it's a special assessment relative to stormwater. In order to do it, there's a statutory process that we have to go through to establish the fees, and it measures -- in part, it's tied to the actual amount of stormwater discharge created by individual properties. So the test for a special assessment's even higher than the test for, like, an impact fee or other fees because it has to directly benefit the fee payer. So the last round of stormwater utility, we actually evaluated every parcel in Collier County, unincorporated county, to look at their impervious area and calculate that stormwater discharge. There are some complexities because of managed systems, so modern stormwater development versus some of the old stormwater systems that we have, how you give credits for people that have private systems that they maintain them. But essentially, it looks at establishing a fee for us to not only do maintenance but also for -- stormwater maintenance, also for us to provide for those capital projects. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall, just so you know, we're a long, long way from any kind of a stormwater user fee. We unanimously rejected it the last time it came before the Board several years ago, and so it's going to be a tough road to hoe. And I know Commissioner McDaniel is committed to it, but we'll look forward to seeing the details when you have them. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Commissioner McDaniel killed the last one, so and we have -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think it was a unanimous kill. I'm not so sure that it was -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. March 4, 2025 Page 127 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: But anyway -- COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm not finished yet. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was a unanimous kill. COMMISSIONER HALL: So I understand it, but we're still focusing on all of this. We're still focusing on creative ways to increase our revenue. We're moving dollars around and calling it victory. Whether it's taxing the people, whether it's getting grants from the government or whatever it is, it's still not focused on -- what I want to get to is what Commissioner Kowal was saying. I want to get to the fat, to the inefficiencies, to the -- to the -- to where we're operating as big government when we can operate as a smaller government entity. Whether we can get there or not, but that's the direction that I want to see us taking, and I haven't seen that so far. I'm being patient, but I'm not -- plain talk is the easiest understood. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, and he jumped to a new slide. The comment that I had to make was these propositions are what ResourceX -- a portion, I believe, of what ResourceX talked to us about on their first report. And I kind of chided you, Chris, a little bit, because I know that reallocation means cutting. Something is getting cut when you're moving money from here when you're reallocating. And so reallocating, bringing in additional grant monies, alternative sources from other agencies, yes, they are tax money, but at the same time we're freeing up available ad valorem that we have that we had put forth, as Commissioner Saunders pointed out on the diverging diamond at Immokalee Road. We had appropriated in our five-year plan to budget for that. The DOT saw our willingness to participate and stepped up and grabbed onto it and saw the need for it, and that allows us to reallocate previously committed funds back into other necessary infrastructure and capital projects that we direly March 4, 2025 Page 128 need, so -- and having a timeline will help us a lot as we're -- and maybe help Commissioner Hall. I don't know if we can or not, but -- COMMISSIONER HALL: No, no. I mean -- excuse me for jumping in there. But I'm all about -- I'm good with what we're doing -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep. COMMISSIONER HALL: -- but I just don't want to see it be all that we do. That's where I'm being patient. MR. JOHNSON: And I appreciate that input. I just wanted to show you guys one more slide before I turn it over to Chris, and this is just the additional opportunities that we're kind of looking at, and some of these are the efficiencies that I believe that you're speaking to, Commissioner Hall. The Transportation area's looking at updating their pavement inspection model utilizing technology to more efficiently work on our repaving programs. We're also looking at the potential of organizing tourism on the promotional side as a CVB under a 501(c)(6). That may be -- that may be a better way to do that, provide some efficiency and some taxpayer savings. And Utilities, they're working on a pilot to implement AMI meter reading. Now, that reads the meters from a tower so you don't have to send people out and around, driving around reading meters every day. So there could be potential cost savings with that. Trimming a little bit of the fat, if you will, in that area. Another thing that the utility is looking into is low pressure wastewater systems. Instead of having lift stations that are buried way, way under the ground where you -- if you have maintenance, you've got to dig all the way down and deal with that, they have -- I guess it's more -- and, again, I'm not an engineer, so I'm just going to do it in laymen's terms. Pipes are close to the surface, there's more pumps, it's low pressure, and it's easier to access and maintain. March 4, 2025 Page 129 So those are a few that might fit in what you're looking at there for efficiencies and working towards that, and some of those are already in process, so... COMMISSIONER HALL: Perfect. MR. JOHNSON: And with that, if the Board chooses, I can turn it over to Chris. Thank you. One second here, Chris. I'll get this up for you. MR. FABIAN: Wonderful. Thank you, Commissioners. Thank you, staff, for having us back. We are very fortunate to be moving into the next phase of priority-based budgeting, and we will get into some of exactly what you are looking for for the next step. My name is Chris Fabian, as a reminder, from Tyler Technologies. And with me today is Jesse Muniz, who many of you have had the chance to meet. As a reminder, Jesse was a former client and then came to work with us full time and leads implementations across the country. Let's get into where we are and where we're headed next. Chris, go ahead with the next slide, please. We put this -- this is a new slide that you have not seen before to help us explain timeline in terms of where we have been and where we are headed. And the title of the slide is priority-based budgeting data, PBB acronym, as the foundation, the key dataset for the type of changes that we're looking for. So you see that over on the left-hand side, our very first effort last year, just one year ago, was to create data that did not exist before in order to use this data to now advance into where are we going to find budget savings and new revenue opportunities. So last year -- and Jesse will go into this in just a moment as a recap -- we created that foundational dataset of every program provided by your departments, the costs of those programs, and the March 4, 2025 Page 130 measurement of the alignment of programs to your strategic plan results. You see, as we move towards the middle set of bubbles in the diagram, if you will, these -- the middle set is what we use data to produce by way of insights. And at the very top, PBB data served the county last year and will continue to serve the county in terms of the basic budget process. So as you think about how the base budget is evaluated, where does the current money go, what programs do you fund, and why do you fund them, that's a base budget question. And as you think about new proposals that come from departments, whether they're additions to their budget or new revenues or efficiencies, you now have, by way of that first budget process transformation, a lens with which to see how any spending request relates to your priorities or does not, and that's the basic budget process. As you move down, resource optimization was our very first set of insights, and that came with the ROI report last year. So what was that all about? That was the first cut to say, all right, now that we see every program that you're providing, let us provide options to say, given this program, are there ways to generate new revenue to fund the program, or are there ways to reduce expenses? With every program evaluated against priorities, an opportunity that everyone has all the time, is really important, is not to do the program. And you have -- we have the data now to be able to address that type of question. But the first set of insights was a list of options to say, anticipating that you may wish to continue this program, here are different ways that other local governments have funded it before, and that's really critical. Commissioner McDaniel, as you discussed cost recovery and revenue, which has been a subject of some of the initial insights, it is important to think through. If we do bring in new alternative March 4, 2025 Page 131 revenue to fund a program, whether that's grants or fees, you're exactly right that that is a new source of revenue. Perhaps -- all revenue ultimately comes from some source of a fee payer or a taxpayer, but what it allows you to do is reduce the subsidized element of the program, the backfill, if you will, and give you the option to either reallocate it towards something else you want to fund or refund it back to taxpayers. So those are -- that is the -- that's the point of a new revenue that's interesting to be able to take into consideration. If I bring in new alternative revenue sources and I don't have to use General Fund or ad valorem subsidization, you now free up those resources to either fund something else that you couldn't fund before or provide it back to the taxpayers overall, and that's a -- that's a really handy option to have. And furthermore, as far as expense reduction, efficiencies, partnerships, many of which -- not all the insights have been revenue based. There are a number of efficiencies, but there's more to come. Staff has taken the most actionable insights to move forward with, but it's not -- it's not exhausted. So there -- that effort will continue on. So 2024 was the kickoff, 2025 now we move into action and execution, and that will continue on. I have another section of the presentation specifically on those insights for probably years to come and will continue to be refreshed. One thing you're building is a culture of resourcefulness where you're always looking for new ways to consider how you're funding these programs and how to be optimized by way of your resources. Okay. Let's move to that third bubble down. Program efficiency is the task at hand this year, and I hope that this is directly on the mark with what you're hoping to get into. But this will be a new set of insights. March 4, 2025 Page 132 So the first set of insights were understanding from that PBB blueprint, how to fund something differently or how to look at the revenue model, the funding model itself. This year we'll be tackling all programs with process efficiency. What are the key business processes that go into delivering services? How can we come to understand how these processes work and where we have insights for process streamlining, new technology utilization, the kind of approaches that can help make a program more efficient. So there will be a new set of insights specific to efficiencies this year. And just like last year, you'll get your first report of program efficiencies, consider them, move to those that are most actionable and begin to take action on those just like you have taken action on the first set of resource optimization insights this go-round. Finally, last but not least, while resource optimization and program efficiency are two key areas to take a crack at finding ways to use the resources you have more efficiently, we need to move to effectiveness and impact. And the very last step which we're proposing to consider, perhaps a pilot department as late as -- later this year. And moving into 2026, we'll be looking at program impact insights. So shifting the focus from how do we run the program as streamlined as possible to how do we deliver impact to the maximum degree by way of KPIs. And this, hopefully, is a better depiction, this slide, of the multiple layers or the different sets of insights which are recommendations to question what we do, why we do it, can we run it more efficiently, and ultimately, can we run it more effectively, and that's an impact question. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Great. I mean, I said it last year, and I'm going to say it again: "I'm beginning to see the method to the madness." March 4, 2025 Page 133 Can you just give us an example, a real-life example of a key performance indicator for efficiencies. MR. FABIAN: For efficiencies. COMMISSIONER HALL: KPI. MR. FABIAN: I will be getting into that in just a few slides for building inspections. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. MR. FABIAN: You got it. So we're going to take this step by step. Jesse's going to cover the PBB data foundation, then I'm going to move into the resource optimization insights, the program efficiency insights for this year, Jesse will bring us home with program impact, and then we'll show this slide again to see if we're getting clear. All right. MR. MUNIZ: Commissioners, again, thank you for having me here today. I'm excited to have been a part of this project. It's been fun to work with the staff and, as I mentioned -- as I wanted mention to the Board here is, you know, Collier County has done some amazing work with building the PBB data, right? And from its foundation, it's building that data, an additional data layer set that you didn't have before. And so staff's been very engaging, they're asking a lot of good questions, and building that dataset to allow us to get to the point that we're getting here today. So I'm going to go through really quick just some foundational data development of how we got here. Chris, next slide. As Chris has kind of mentioned, you know, priority-based budgeting is what we call transformative because it's clearly revealing what we do, what it costs, and then why we do it, right? And so up there you see some of the accomplishments I feel like we should point out over the last year is translating that general March 4, 2025 Page 134 ledger data into more program focused. I think one of the biggest challenges and one of the biggest barriers that organizations face when they're doing this project is having that open mind about looking at their budget from a program lens, right? Everyone's so used to seeing budgets at a line-item level, everyone's so used to seeing budgets at a fund department/division, tax source level, and so to take a step back and actually identify the program and services you identify and put those in a report that says, "Here's what we do, and here's why we do it." And the staff here has been amazing in developing that data, and that's a huge Step 1 to get going. Again, as we mentioned, each program was evaluated, and it was based on the alignment with your strategic priorities ensuring there's transparency about how those resources are directly supporting your goals, and then by also adding the element of program revenues, we've created some greater clarity around true cost recovery, right? And so a lot of the cost recovery opportunities that we see throughout this presentation is by identifying those program remedies from the beginning, where can we have some additional where possible. And it's -- basically what we did to get to the data that we have today, we went through these stages. So we developed a comprehensive list of all the programs, which last year we developed almost 500 programs, and the staff is already looking at this year and have added a few more throughout the process. And so again, this sounds very engaging in getting this done. We mapped those costs from the line-item Level 2 programs. Again, we mapped the revenue as well, a strategic alignment. And then that last one there is something that is very important is the program attributes, right? So not only did we look at the programs and align them with the priorities, we also looked at the March 4, 2025 Page 135 why, right? So why are we providing these services? Why are we providing these programs? And that's a huge key data point to identify, because at that -- with those data points, you can now determine what service levels do you need to have in order to run your government officially? You talk about running a lean government, a big government at a smaller price, that's where we start to get those data points is where -- when we look at the data points of the why, why we're doing it, is it mandated, is the demand increasing, or is it decreasing, is it something that we're the only ones that can do, when you evaluate against these basic points, now you can start looking for, quote-unquote, the fat of government and where you can kind of pull back on service levels. So that's where we're going to be aiming towards is those key data points are going to help us get there. Next slide. And, yeah, I'll turn it over to Chris to kind of talk about the ROI report in general. MR. FABIAN: So Insight Set 1, the ROI report and resource optimization. Go ahead, next slide. So this is what Chris has talked about. This is what you're most familiar with, the ROI report, so we're re-remembering what this one was all about. But the first set of insights allowed you to evaluate or scrutinize how all of your resources are going towards the programs that you fund and asking the question: Can we provide this program differently than how we're providing it today in order to reduce subsidization? Whether that's through new alternative revenue, program efficiencies, partnerships, and some of the examples that Chris pointed to today. If you remember, that very first report had upwards 85 million to over 100 million across all departments that were evaluated. And March 4, 2025 Page 136 again, scrutinizing all the possible strategies, and we need that. We need all of the options on the table besides reducing services. That's one option. But other options are efficiency, partnership, service-level tradeoffs, new revenue, fees and charges, grant funding. Those are the alternative options to resource or fund a current program overall. Next slide, Chris. And you can advance through the animations, but it's the reminder visually of the report, the summary of the insights, the first look at some of the insights in action, and ultimately -- one more, Chris -- the types of specific insight-by-insight reports that we really love to see staff taking on. It gets back to that accountability of each and every insight that we're looking at. What's the timeline? Are we actually able to move forward with each of these? So, again, just as a reminder, a comprehensive look at all of the programs backed by case study examples of how other organizations have been able to do this before and, as Chris mentioned, the immediate progress on approximately 37 million with others in the hopper is really critical. And here's the last point on the current program insights that you have. You will have months and years to come of continuing to scrutinize these program insights to look for cost efficiencies and alternative revenue approaches to fund your programs. So that's the insights that you know, all about resource optimization. Next slide. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One quick one. MR. FABIAN: This year we move -- oh, sorry. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on just a second. Question, Commissioner McDaniel? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Before we go there -- and that moves into a discussion that we had the other day with regard to March 4, 2025 Page 137 the merit pay and Trinity's joke about the 10 percent. I made a joke a while back in a private session that we could work for free just on a percentage of what we save our taxpayers as opposed to the salaries that we, in fact, get, and moving towards that merit pay program will incentivize our staff to be looking at these things. I'm already seeing a cultural shift transpiring right in the recent past. So having -- having that merit pay plan of some form or format -- it certainly can't be 10 percent. But it can be something to incentivize our staff, because I think Chris Hall -- or Commissioner Hall said it quite some time ago, the folks that are on the ground doing the job all day every day are the best people to be able to come and tell us where our inefficiencies, in fact, are, and they should be compensated for that when, in fact, they identify those things. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. MR. FABIAN: Okay. Next slide. This year is when we move into program efficiencies. So think about it this way, last year we took your priority-based budgeting data, all your programs, and we studied different business models, different funding models, and we came up with recommendations and options. This year it's a different analysis. Same programs, but now we're looking at efficiencies. We're looking at business processes. We're looking at ways to streamline the same programs that you're providing, so it's entirely focused on service delivery, the types of programs that you provide, and efficiency insights. Those will be the types of recommendations that come back to the organization. Just like last year, to the greatest extent possible, we will cross-reference any efficiency recommendation that we have with other organizations, because benchmarking and case studies are really important to build faith that this can be done, that another organization has taken a different approach, and that there are March 4, 2025 Page 138 innovations out there. Chris, next slide, please. Okay. So, Commissioner Hall, back to some -- an example. So let's take an example like building inspections. You have building inspections. It's one of your current programs which entails -- well, I should say, first and foremost, here's the -- here's the good news. Here's how we use priority-based budgeting data. We have identified this program 366 days ago, over one year ago. I didn't know if you did building permits or inspections or what went into it. Now we can see across the organization the multiple inspections that actually take place here, among which are building inspections and plan review. So current-state assessment is understanding do you offer this service? What is the service? What's the program description? Is it mandated? What's the regulatory requirement for providing it? Does it pay for itself? Did it partially pay for itself? So we built that PBB data so we have the current state assessment. What we'll move into this year are items like you see, a process flow. What's -- how does business get done? What are the key business processes that take place to go from initial plan review and applying for a permit or an inspection to all the steps that take place in the middle to ultimate permit issued? What's the timing? What are other metrics to measure? Chris, next slide, please. So as we go through building inspection, an example of key areas to begin to analyze program efficiencies include process simplification. So what are the steps that take place? Are these the normal steps that other organizations go through to issue a permit? Is there anything out of the norm that we see that's taking place in Collier County compared to other organizations? And is this for a good reason, or is there an opportunity to consider a streamlined March 4, 2025 Page 139 approach? We'll move into technology utilization. Chris, in one of the insights, already identified meter reading as a great example of this where technology is added to change -- successfully deliver a key step in a business process but to do it more efficiently with the use of technology, which has a one-time cost and perhaps ongoing maintenance costs allowing you to free up human resources and time and reallocate or save the money in a business process. And that's really key to think through, because even for all of these efficiency recommendations, you will find there will be personnel savings, and there will be non-personnel savings to consider overall. And the same option will be before you, what do you do with those savings? Do we free up and reallocate to fund something else, or do you free up in order to refund? And that's the point of a program efficiency. We'll look at cross-departmental collaborations. So one of the really powerful use cases for your priority-based budgeting data is to look at how many different departments are involved in delivering any given program or service or involved in a process. So we've seen tremendous examples already of centralization and streamlining within the organization. So again, Commissioner McDaniel, back to your culture that's taking -- that already is moving in this direction. We'll double down on cross-departmental collaboration and continue to work in lockstep with staff to look for ways that we can look for streamlining across departments. And ultimately, customer interaction point, where does that come into play? Because that sets us up for the performance component that Jesse will get into. Last but not least, Chris, last slide here on efficiency for the programs that we analyze from the efficiency lens, whether we're March 4, 2025 Page 140 looking at streamlining recommendations, automation, staffing, funding model. Change in policy might be one. We may very well find out that part of the reason you provide a program that you provide is because you require it of yourselves. It's your own policies. It's your own ordinances. And that will be a question back to the organization is to take a look at ways that you can free up your own requirements upon yourself as opposed to a state mandate or a federal requirement or best practice. So hopefully this is helpful to understand, by way of an example, of one program, the type of program efficiency evaluation that we'll go through and, ultimately, the type of recommendations that we will be able to get into. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall. COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman. So in this example, you know, I can understand -- so we're going to go to $130 per inspection as an increase in revenue for what we do as a service. Is there anything that's going to take into consideration -- let me back up. So that's -- that could be a KPI; that could be a key performance indicator that gives you immediate -- you know, immediate feedback to what's going on. But at the same time, is there anything that's going to be implemented with the data or with the streamlining or with the efficiencies that says, "Hey, at this point we're counterproductive. Yes, we're -- we're having more inspections, but are we doing it on purpose to raise money, or are we aggravating the industry," or are we -- or can we just say, you know, in one inspection, you know, give us your feedback or give us your solve online or, you know, a picture or -- I'm just bringing up, if there's -- I don't want to create something and know it's going on but not have it in the best interest of the people that we serve. MR. FABIAN: I think it's ultimately a great question. So first and foremost, I can say we'll have the data before us to be able to ask March 4, 2025 Page 141 that type of question. And with benchmarking and other community examples, we can at least put that data into context to arrive at the hypothesis: Is this appropriate, the fees that we're charging for a permit in order to deliver it with a certain turnaround time? Looking for -- we have customer service enhancements. Interviewing of stakeholders will be a key component as well to look for. COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. MR. FABIAN: Can we get the rest of the story? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. Is there anything else? MR. FABIAN: We do. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. MR. FABIAN: Okay. So that's this year. And now think about the insights that Chris just went through, Chris Johnson. Last year you got the ROI report and the resource optimization, different funding model insights, and this year you see a report on first progress and tremendous progress, and it's ongoing. So picture a parallel path now where we'll have efficiency insights for each program. Coming to you later this year, same vetting process will take place. And by this time next year, you start to look for progress on those efficiency insights before you. And last but not least, so at that point you've said, "All right, we know the programs we offer. We know how much they cost. We know why we provide them. We can question whether we should be in this business or not. We can question what's the appropriate funding model. We can question efficiency," and with those questions answered -- this is why we do it in the order that we do -- the last question -- not the last, but among the last questions to answer is, how can we increase effectiveness or impact? And I'll turn it over to Jesse. Next slide, please. MR. MUNIZ: I think the key here on this slide -- and I won't March 4, 2025 Page 142 read it word for word, but I think the key here is that now that we have that program inventory, now that we have all the data that we've developed, it's about just continuous improvement. It's about constantly evaluate the data, constantly reviewing the programs that we offer, and just finding ways to ensure that we're accountable for all the dollars that we're investing, right? I think the key theme here is value. You know, what we're looking for is, you know, being able to provide more results with the same money, you know, being able to provide less [sic] results for less money, et cetera, right? And so we're looking for value in this whole exercise. And by having this data, by having what we've built now, that's where we can start to find those efficiencies and those value propositions. And so I think what we're -- what I want to say is over the last year, this -- Collier County has kind of jumped ahead. We usually have this process in Years 3 or 4 when we're working with organizations and we get to this stuff, but you guys were already, after Year 1, in this process of looking for these types of efficiencies and optimizations. And so it's a credit to what you're doing as a staff and changes of culture that you're here at this point. And so although I know it sounds like, you know, things aren't moving as quickly as -- maybe as you want, I think you are -- you are way ahead than most organizations that we work with at this level. And so I commend you all for being that, and that all is because -- based on leadership. That's all based on the direction that you want to go and having a staff that is really willing to step in and to do that. So, again, you guys are doing an excellent job, and it's been fun to work with you on this project, and really looking forward to seeing what those efficiency gains that we can get over the next year and March 4, 2025 Page 143 going forward. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Johnson, what's our next steps here? No one's lit up for questions at this point. So what's next? MR. JOHNSON: This is the end of our presentation today. So as far as -- COMMISSIONER HALL: Aren't you glad? MR. JOHNSON: I'm having a great time. As far as the budget process goes, next board meeting, on the 11th, we'll revisit policy for adoption. From there, staff will begin the process of putting the budget together. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think I'd like to spend a half hour or so after this meeting with Jesse just to go over a few things. MR. JOHNSON: If I can get him for 20 minutes after that, that would be good, too, you know. COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Uber standing by or -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No one's lit up. We have no speakers online, I assume. MR. MILLER: No. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If there's nothing else, then we're going to go ahead and adjourn. If that's the will of the Board, we are adjourned. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 2:19 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ,04e,4,%. 4.,e0,b.a.— BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN ATTES"T. ?, CRYSTAL I .K. ZEL, CLERK - .d :.'. A'.: r. 1 1,1, ..,: :,. . ttest as,to Chairman z signature. only These minutes approved by the Board on 35 7 �a-s, as presented_ ✓ or as corrected . TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC. Page 1-51 I `t @r;t,rre.�- ec�) March 4, 2025