DSAC Minutes 11/06/2024 1
MINUTES OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING
Naples, Florida
November 06, 2024
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, the Collier County Development Services Advisory Committee
Meeting and Collier County, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 3:00 PM in
REGULAR SESSION at the Collier County Growth Management Community Department
Building, Conference Room #609/610, 2800 N. Horseshoe Dr., Naples, Florida, 34102 with the
following members present:
Chairman: William J. Varian
Vice Chairman: Blair Foley
Hannah Roberts – AHAC – Non-Voting (Absent)
Mark McLean
Jeffrey Curl
Marco Espinar
Chris Mitchell
Jeremy Sterk (Excused)
John English (Excused)
James E. Boughton (Excused)
Robert Mulhere
Laura Spurgeon DeJohn
David Dunnavant
Clay Brooker
Norm Gentry
Mario Valle
Also Present:
James French, Department Head – GMCD
Mike Bosi, Director – Zoning, GMCD
Christopher Mason – Community Planning & Resiliency, GMCD
Cormac Giblin, Director – Housing Policy & Economic Development, GMCD
Jaime Cook, Director – Development Review, GMCD
Michael Stark, Director – Operations & Regulatory Management, GMCD
John McCormick, Director – Building Review & Permitting Division, GMCD
Captain Bryan Horbal – North Collier Fire Review
Thomas Iandimarino, Director – Code Enforcement, GMCD
Claudia Vargas, Project Manager I – PUD
Lorraine Lantz, Manager – Transportation Planning, Transportation Management
Diane Lynch, Management Analyst I, Staff Liaison – GMCD
Rey Torres Fuentes, Ops. Support Specialist I, Staff Liaison – GMCD
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1. CALL TO ORDER
• Meeting called to order at 3:00pm
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Mario Valle made a motion to accept the agenda, the motion was seconded by Jeff curl.
The Motion passed unanimously.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
a. DSAC Meeting: October 2, 2024
Jeff Curl made a motion to approve minutes, the motion was seconded by Mark McLean.
The Motion passed unanimously.
4. PUBLIC SPEAKERS
We have 2 public speakers for guest houses. We'll hold them for our discussion.
5. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS / UPDATES
a. Zoning Division – [Mike Bosi, Director]
We're still actively pursuing a Planner 3 to replace our Comp. Plan Manager. We've
got a few applicants and hoping to close that gap and get fully staffed. Tomorrow,
Planning Commission with 3 new members. Michelle McLeod, Mike Petscher, and
Chap Colucci. We've had orientations with each of them. They all seem astute,
reasonable, levelheaded folks, and we're hoping they will be a good addition to the
Planning Commission. We've got a car wash in a GMP that Mr. Mulhere is bringing
forward that the staff agrees with.
We have created a little bit of a backup with what we had originally reserved for the
November 12th Board of County Commissioners meeting, specifically to hear the
Fiddlers Creek 3 trio petitions for the affordable housing. We had only allowed any
land use petitions that were summary. Everything else got pushed to December. Last
week, Commissioner LoCastro asked staff and the applicant to continue to December.
He'd like to have more time to digest it and work with staff, the applicant, and the
community. Mr. Yovanovich agreed, and the County Manager has moved that item to
December. We're going to have an extremely busy agenda in December. Not sure if
we're going to be able to get through all the land use items.
December 10th is the is the only Board meeting in December. We've got a little bit of
backup with 5 additional petitions scheduled for the 1st meeting in January.
Right behind that, we have the Myrtle Lane rezone, which is the relocation of the U
Haul, which is critical for the Bayshore and the Bayshore redevelopment progress.
They want to relocate U Haul from its current location to by Myrtle Lane off East
Trail . We think it’s a good arrangement in freeing up that property for use with the
redevelopment efforts within Bayshore.
b. Community Planning & Resiliency Division – [Christopher Mason, Director]
I was absent for the last DSAC meeting at the beginning of October. Hurricane
Helene was probably talked about beforehand. We've been working with FEMA and
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tracking all our damaged structures. We're standing by from any reporting request
from FEMA now but if there are any inquiries from FEMA, we will be ready. Same
problematic areas as Ian.
c. Economic Development & Housing Division – [Cormac Giblin, Director]
Good news story. The first closing on property that we are using the surtax money
from is scheduled to close on to next Tuesday, the 12th. That's $3,750,000 for about 7
and a half acres on Collier Boulevard South. Earlier this week there was a grand
opening for a new affordable development called Ekos Cadenza, in Allegra, which is
a sister property right next door. One hundred and sixty affordable rental units
dedicated to senior housing
It's the 1st senior housing development affordable senior housing and development to
open in Collier County since 1975. Another 160 units in about 3-4 months.
d. Development Review Division [Jaime Cook, Director]
One major piece of news, Brett Rosenblum, our Planning Manager for Engineering, is
leaving. His last day is next Friday. I know some of you may email things with
regards to plats or insubstantial change preapproval, continue to send those to Lisa
Blackledge and myself.
We're working on redistributing his workload and the position is posted.
e. Operation & Regulatory Management Division [Jason Badge]
Good afternoon. Jason Badge, Supervisor Project Management of the Operations and
Support and Regulatory Management Division. In October, the Department received
3,710 permit applications. One hundred and twenty-nine of these were related to
Hurricane Helene, and 110 were related to Hurricane Milton. The average turnaround
time for intake staff is 1.1 days.
We welcomed 1,244 customers to our business center and the satellite offices, and
staff answered 5,384 calls in our call center. We also removed the building permit
application on October 1st as a permit requirement, except for right away well and
owner builder applications, and so far, it's been a successful launch. On the 18th we
deployed the new changes that were requested for allowing multiple text messages to
be sent to different phone numbers and email addresses. Hopefully, you have seen
that as you've been scheduling inspections on our portal.
Chairman Varian
It's been great. Thank you. So Awesome to hear.
Jason Badge
We appreciate the opportunity to share this information and data with you. My team
and I are readily available to answer any questions and address any concerns, and
we're open to feedback on how we can improve our processes.
Robert Mulhere
Jason, I think it was the last meeting we're talking about some of the bosses and
things. They do a great job. I was thinking that there's a lot of training that must
occur there because there's so many different types of petitions and there's nuances
here and there.
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For example, if we ask for a waiver of a pre app, we usually get an email from Ray
Bellows, and we submit that with the application so that intake is aware because
otherwise, they will hold it up.
Another thing, it was a PUD amendment of a of an older PUD, so it doesn't follow the
typical format of a of a PUD with exhibits a, b, c, d, and e. that was going to be put on
hold because it wasn't following the typical format, except, of course, it wasn't
following the typical format because it was about amendment. I was just thinking
something for consideration, and I've said this before. I think it's as much my
responsibility as it is Steph’s , maybe there could be a section on the pre app notes that
talks about either destruct or instructions for intake if it's something unique. Because
then it doesn't sit somewhere. It's all taken care of upfront, puts the burden on us to
ask for those special conditions that might apply upfront.
Jason Badge
Sure. I'll make a note and bring it up with pre app staff as an idea.
f. Building Review & Inspection [John McCormick]
Good afternoon. It's my 3rd day here but I've been here 10 years. I started with
Jamie in the same Division and spent the last 7 years as Director of Facilities and Sir
Tac Liaison helping the County spend about half a billion dollars. I was in a family
construction company for 30 years. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, and I love
what I do. I'm anxious to get to know you folks, and if I can help in any way, I'm a
quick learner. Rich was here like 19 years. If there’s anything I can do to help I have
the same phone number and will pass out new business cards next meeting.
g. Collier County Fire Review NO UPDATE
h. North Collier Fire Review [Brian Horbal]
We had another busy month in October. We did 1414 new construction permitted
inspections. That's on par for our busy months.
We interviewed 4-5 Plan Reviewers and have 3 that we like. We were hoping for one
but we're trying to see if the Chief will give us a couple more because we're just so
busy. September was just as busy, 655 plan reviews, and we are averaging a 4-day
turnaround. That's all-permitted stuff. Planning review, we did 63 with a 3-day
turnaround.
The Ritz Carlton Beach Project is done for now. The remodel, addition, new CEP
outback, and all the hurricane stuff, we're done. That's been my baby for the last
couple of years, so I'm glad to have it have it done.
i. Code Enforcement [Thomas Iandimarino, Director]
It's been status quo back in Code. We've been steadily gearing up for season.
Chairman Varian
The uptick in unlicensed people trying to do contracting work with the new work?
Tom Iandimarino
Not so much since the Hurricanes, but we have had Contractor Licensing Staff
working Saturdays and Sundays out in the field. You know, we do get a few cases
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here and there. And when we get a call on a Sunday for something that we miss, we
try to catch it next Sunday, and sometimes that's how it works.
GMCD [Jamie French, Department Head]
• With the transition of Parks and Recreation and Domestic Animal Services
coming into the Community Development Model, Tom will be picking up 16 Park
Rangers, and he has 9 Animal Control Officers. We're looking at trying to flatten
the job descriptions to where you have code 1, code 2, code 3 type of a scenario
so that entry level may be a Park Ranger, Code Enforcement Officer, or Licensing
Person. With more advanced licensing and training offered throughout the State,
we're looking at Tom doing it now, for example, like the ACOs. That training's
very difficult to get in. We just reached out to the Company. They're coming in I
think, next week. It's a 4-day course we're putting Park Rangers and Code
Enforcement People through. It really takes on that force multiplier approach,
and the same thing with Licensing and everything else.
• They're all Code Enforcement employees that operate under that consolidated
Code Enforcement Ordinance through the County, and Tom was already
processing all their hearings anyway. The idea is that having that type of multi-
tiered level of training, it enables us during vacations, busy seasons, off time to be
able to take that apparatus, that vehicle that's been specialized, for example, for
ACOs, for the Animal Control Officers and that way that van is never off the road.
• One of the things that Tom has done is shift work and you'll see it is much like
what the Park Rangers are doing. They've all brought different aspects of
business that we appreciate. Much like the Sheriff's Office, the way they run their
dispatch.
• You'll see that level of service from 7 AM until 10 PM and nights and weekends
on call services. So that it's more of an accommodation to the Sheriff's Office and
to our 911 Centers so that we can get that specialized trained person in the field.
There will be some budget constraints but at the end of the day, we think having
that additional staff will not influence in any way, shape, or form your enterprise
funds. We look at it as a cost savings because that way we're spending less time
bringing these cases through for prosecution.
• For example, with the ACOs, $26,000 in fines got away because of how bad it
was managed. Now we are at 100% conviction.
• If we're bringing a case forward, our goal is the educational path. But you are if
you are resistant and don’t get your license or pull a permit or register your dog,
you will get a ticket. And we're going to enforce fines and lien on property,
however the law allows. That’s our goal.
• One of the things Tom has not disclosed is that we'll be moving Code
Enforcement much like Sheriff's Office where you'll have individual offices.
• With the merger of Parks, we're going to create a North Naples Code Office at
North Collier Regional Park like we have at Heritage Bay in Immokalee.
• Conservation Collier needs more space and we're looking at some additional lease
spaces through another State Agency.
• We're looking at taking all the calls for Parks, DAS, and Growth Management
and putting them all in the same call center.
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• I've asked the Board and the County Manager to give me the transition of the Park
Rangers and that should be completed by the end of this month.
• We've been going through some growing pains for the last 9 months with these
transitions, and I apologize for that.
Jeff Curl
My hat's off to you, it's a world of difference, and I don't mean to be disrespectful
to Mike but Tom with his law enforcement background, you're hitting the nail on
the head.
Jamie French
I agree. I think it's a combination of Tom being 32 years in federal law
enforcement, but then also having Tim Crotts there who spent a lifetime as an
executive officer for a small police force and then a Police Chief up in the New
England States, having that level of administration helps with prosecution.
Taking this force multiplier approach will allow us to have consistent messaging
across the entire agency as one unified Code effort. With that the ACOs as well as
Park Rangers have the training and know what to look for. It also offers them a
multifaceted career path.
And hats off to the Sheriff Office because I've learned so much from them in my
21 plus years here. They’ve been wonderful partners throughout this venture.
j. Public Utilities Engineering & Project Management [Claudia Vargas, Project
Manager]
We had our first Subcommittee meeting last week, the next one is November 18th.
Mario can give a brief update on where we are and the process and how the
review went.
Mario Valle
Thanks. I appreciate everybody voting me in as Vice-Chair of the Subcommittee
while I was on vacation.
There are over 571 pages for us to review. There were about a dozen highlights I
wrote down. Chris and John English were both there. We 've asked staff to allow
us to have enough time to review this diligently. It's been a long time since it's
been reviewed, and it looks like we're making good progress towards the
sustainability of our infrastructure.
We started off with a half an hour conversation about introducing liability to the
civil engineers and design professionals and it was something we asked to have to
go back and review. It was onerous in terms of how much they were asking the
design professionals to ascertain. With that major caveat out of the way, we went
through and most of it seemed to flow well. It's just a lot to go through.
David Dunavant
Just a little curious. I used to track it a little closer when I was getting them, but
I've never understood how response times for letters of availability could be at 6
business weeks. There was an exerted push a couple years ago to try and reduce
that, and it seems to have fallen off again.
Claudia Vargas
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So right now, our response time is 10 business days. While I was starting training,
there were some anomalies and time frames due to the training, but other than
that, we're back on schedule.
k. Transportation Planning [Lorraine Lantz, Manager]
The first thing is Wilson Boulevard, the south project, for the extension, not the
widening. This is Golden Gate Boulevard to City Gate North, that connection. I
probably haven't spoken to you about that for 2 years. That was shelved as we were
having some timing in staffing. We're bringing that back.
I believe we're scheduling that for December 9th meeting, which is a Monday. That’s a
public meeting to explain where we are in the corridor and to talk about the
alignment. We are also working on our access management study and revising the
access management policies.
Mike Sawyer or Kathy came to you a little bit ago and said we would kick that off.
We 've had one meeting already with the Development Community. It's going well.
We're will have another one and then bring that to the Board of County
Commissioners in September.
Mostly we're adopting FDOT's guidelines. Just updating them.
Tonight, they're at the IFES Center, there’s a public meeting for the Randall,
Immokalee intersection project that's at 30% design plans. They're anticipating that
for construction for the intersection improvements in late 2026.
Jeff Curl
It seems like Transportation is infatuated with these. I heard that one is going in at
DeSoto and Golden Gate. A lot of 18 wheelers go through there and isn’t a good
scenario.
That is one we are looking at. Roundabouts in the right place with the right design are
effective. They're good traffic calming and sustainable if power goes out. The one in
Immokalee and 29 functions. intersection improvement, but it is an intersection
improvement.
Clay Brooker
The Wilson extension. Do you know where that meeting will be held on December
9th?
We're looking at Heritage Bay, Immokalee and Collier Boulevard.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. Expiring Terms
Five of us are expiring our terms here. We've done great and I think we have 6
applications.
We'll go one at a time because some of us must excuse ourselves from voting.
Chairman Varian
So first up
i. Architect
Blair Foley motioned to recommend Mark McClain
Robert Mulhere seconded
Motion passed unanimously
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ii. Planner
Blair Foley motioned to recommend Robert Mulhere
Mario Valle seconded
Motion passed unanimously
iii. Environmental Consultant
Blair Foley motioned to recommend Jeremy Sterk
Jeff Curl seconded
Motion passed unanimously
iv. General Contractor
Mario Valley motioned to recommend William Varian
Blair Foley seconded
Blair Foley needs to take over as Chair for this vote only.
Motion passed unanimously
Dave Dunnavant’s spot we will be filling
v. Developer
Blair Foley motioned to recommend Nick Cole Harris
Mario Valle seconded
Motion passed unanimously
b. PL20240009067 Guesthouse Rentals in Urban Estates
Eric Johnson, LDC Planning Manager
This Land Development Code amendment would establish interim regulations for
the rental of guest- houses with Urban Estate Zone Lots. The provisions for
guesthouses have been on the books in the county since the seventies, as well as
in the seventies has been the prohibition about renting the guest- houses.
In 2023, The Board discussed the prospect of amending the Land Development
Code to allow for the rental of these guesthouses on a State Zone Lots.
• On May 14th this year, The Board directed staff to move forward with an LDC
amendment with a provision in writing of the 1-year revisit and a specific report
from Code Enforcement to amend the Land Development Code to allow the rental
of guesthouses.
• The focus is to be on Estate Zone Lots in the Urban Part of the County. That
affects the Golden Gate Area Master Plan. There are 3 sub elements, the Golden
Gate City, The Rural, and The Urban. This would only affect estates and lots in
the Urban Golden Gate Estates Element Sub Element, as well as other Estate
Zone lots west of Collier Boulevard.
• I provided an exhibit for you in your packet, exhibit A that shows where the study
area is, including the, Estate Zone Lots that are not in the Urban Sub element of
the GBA and P.
• In your package, you'll also find there’s yellow highlighting, text that represents
the changes that were made to this amendment since it went to the Subcommittee
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on October 15th. Basically, staff is looking to amend, LDC sections 2.03.01,
agricultural districts, as well as LDC section 5 guesthouses. You'll see that in 5 of
the most proposed text is in 50303, particularly F. You have the leasing or rental
renting of guesthouse shall be prohibited unless the following requirements are
met. And it shows 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. We have also added 7 and 8, and you'll
notice that 7 is a minimum duration of a lease between a lessor and lessee, shall
be 9 months. Then number 8, this code is supposed to sunset unless it's extended
by the Board of County Commissioners by a resolution. The amendment has been
reviewed by staff and I wanted to read for the record what transportation planning
had to say. I provided 5 bullets.
1. There are a limited number of parcels affected by the amendment.
2. The Urban Sub District contains an established road network with major
north south and east west arterials and collectors.
3. Traffic impacts resulting from the rental units should be more widely
distributed within the sub district compared to the compared to traditional
PUD developments with single point trip impacts.
4. There is a reasonable network of interconnected local neighborhood roads
providing alternative routes.
5. There are numerous goods and services employment opportunities adjacent to
the Sub
District area to reduce lengths on the network compared to longer and rural
commuter residential trips.
• Our comprehensive planning staff reviewed the previous iteration. They have not
seen the yellow yet. I'm still waiting for their approval. I suspect that they're not
going to have an issue with the minimum duration of a lease of 9 months.
• After consulting with our County Attorney's Office, there was concern about
having a minimum duration lease. Do the State Statutes preempt us from
instituting that? Conclusion was no. We, as in staff, conducted a survey of some
apartment complexes within the County, and you'll note in the overhead, behind
you that many of the minimum durations that they have is 12 months 11 months,
so we feel like we are justified with a minimum of at least 9 months and this will
help further the prospect of having , or the supply of rentals in the community that
helps with the affordable housing problem in the County. But I would like to point
out that no one is compelling any property owner to rent to any of the categories
of affordable housing qualified applicants.
• This is strictly a property owner who would want to rent out their guesthouse,
they can do so under these provisions, if it is in the study area. The property
owner would have to figure out through their own due diligence whether it would
be financially feasible for them to continue with this because, in doing so, we are
mandating that only homesteaded properties would be eligible to rent out the
guesthouses. And as you know, or maybe you don't know, when you do a rental
the property appraiser's office is going to look at that guesthouse structure
differently and you will lose that homestead exemption on the guesthouse
structure but not the main structure. Staff is looking for a recommendation of
approval with that.
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• And the subcommittee did review this on October 15th and recommended
approval.
Robert Mulhere
Why the sunsetting? I don't I don't understand that.
Eric Johnson
That was directed by The Board so we must follow through with what they want from
us. So, they actively want to report within 5 years. They may extend it, but if they
don't like it, they can sunset it.
It's my understanding they want an annual report.
Laura Spurgeon DeJohn
I am a property owner in the red box. I learned in past experiences, usually, if you're1
out of 1,000, you're not a heavily affected party. Is anyone else in the red box?
Clay Brooker
I can comment. I mean, my understanding of the law under these circumstances, you
would not be conflicted from participating and voting. But that's my understanding of
it.
Chris Mitchell
I know the basis behind losing your exemption on the structure only? In the last 3-4
years, the land value is probably going to far outweigh the construction cost of the
structure. I don't understand the benefit. I mean, do you get that small square footage
of the land comes out of that homestead too? And why are we doing that?
Eric Johnson
This is not the zoning staff's area of expertise. Obviously, we would have to get
feedback from the Property Appraiser, and whoever will eventually want to rent out
their guesthouse will have to make their own decision as to whether it's financially
beneficial to them.
It's my understanding that the Property Appraiser assesses a property on 3 different
matters. The land itself, the principal dwelling, and the guesthouse structure. That
would be the guesthouse structure would lose its homestead exemption, and therefore
not be protected under the same save our homes cap, and I think that's 3%.
Clay Brooker
The Subcommittee heard from the public and I suspect we'll be hearing from the
public again on that issue. They're all valid points, but this is a zoning exercise. We
made an informal suggestion that the County have a brochure or a pamphlet that if
you decide to do this there are consequences, and you should be aware of them before
you make that decision.
Chris Mitchell
Was there any discussion that if you subsequently pull that out of the rental, do you
get re-homesteaded and at what value?
Eric Johnson
I just think that those are questions for the property appraiser and not subject to
DSAC from a zoning perspective.
Clay Brooker
I would suggest that we don't even go down that road because we could possibly
getting get something wrong, and I don't want to mislead anyone in that respect. Tax
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consequences, homestead exemption consequences, save our homes consequences, all
of that should be outside of our purview, in my opinion.
Eric Johnson
I just wanted to mention that in the future, administrative code amendment, to support
this land development code effort. And we envision having a zoning certificate
process, like comparable to the guesthouse rental being associated with this as well.
Laura Spurgeon DeJohn
I understand that this formalizes something however, it has been going on prolifically
and regularly for decades and those folks did not get hacked by the tax office because
they had been renting their guest- houses. People have been doing this, and it's a little
crooked to now say we're going to encourage it and make sure there's affordable
opportunities in this County, and then here's all the consequences that make it harder
to be affordable.
Eric Johnson
There is a short-term registration program that it will remain separate from this.
Before, I envisioned having a zoning certificate and a registration that's separate from
this.
Except the thousands of people doing it, like, the 40 or 50% of homeowners on my
street who do it are not going to sign up.
Keep in mind that this will make it lawful for someone to rent out their guesthouse.
Rey Torres
Buddy Smith. You have 3 minutes, Sir.
5170 10th Avenue Southwest off Logan. I bought that property in 78. I look through
this information have a couple of questions. I'm not unhappy with the information
because I have a rented guesthouse, but here's a hole in the time frame of 9 months
being a minimum and12 months being a maximum.
According to Naples Board of Realtors you can only rent for 12 months. I'm glad to
see that the 9 months minimum which eliminates short term rentals. I am a licensed
realtor. But there's also a question about the sales tax and bed tax.
You can't have a tourist tax when you're renting a guesthouse, but you can have a bed
tax. And I see we've got to get a $50 permit.
But are the taxes going to also apply?
Chairman Varian
It's above our level right here, but it's a good question.
Laura Spurgeon DeJohn
Can I ask because I don't know if I heard you correctly in the beginning? Did you say
you do rent out a guest house presently?
Buddy Smith
I was referring to other properties
Robert Mulhere
The Property Appraiser would have a lot of this information. My recommendation for
staff, if we get through this, it's probably going to be important to have somebody
here that can answer these questions.
David Dunnavant
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I'm just curious what violates the principle of paragraph C that the owner can't live in
the guesthouse and rent out as principal.
Clay Brooker
From a zoning perspective, it doesn't matter. We brought that up at the Subcommittee
meeting, but there was not an answer for that.
Chris Mitchell
Did the Subcommittee confirm that current Code says that guesthouse distance
between structures is 20 feet?
Eric Johnson
D4 says a detached guest detached guest houses shall not be closer than 20 feet to the
principal dwelling. I don't think that means you can't have an attached guest house.
Yes, i t must be 20 feet.
Rey Torres
Our next speaker is Jill Rosenfeld.
• Jill Rosenthal, 2230 10th Avenue at East West Valley Road, Wilmington
Estates. I just wanted to bring up a couple of points. I asked about the
properties identified that have guest houses, how many of those are
homesteaded properties and would qualify for this program? I got an email
this morning that someone in the public records department is going to help
me with that. I'll get that information soon.
• Another point is once a homesteaded property owner enters the program to
rent the guesthouse, they lose their homestead exemption, and more
importantly, the homestead protection, that is protection from judgment
creditors on the guesthouse. Additionally, the guesthouse will be reassessed
the following January at the current market value. I'm just trying to figure out
as this goes forward, what is the estimated projected increase in tax
assessment and property taxes for these properties?
• I think it's a prior priority to determine that now before we go ahead and start
changing the Code and any regulations. I think we really should focus on what
is this going to do to the property owners.
• The State has preempted short term rentals, so the County cannot limit or ban
them. I don't understand how a guesthouse or a house compares to apartment
buildings, because apartment buildings are solely for rentals. I think that needs
to be investigated.
• Then the 5-year pilot program had already been addressed by the County
Attorney at the BCC meeting. He advised that once the County gives a
property owner a right such as a rental of guesthouses, the County cannot then
restrict it or the County could be subject to a Bert Harris claim. So that needs
to be investigated before it goes forward. The affected property owners
deserve a thorough analysis. Let's not be short sighted and let's take the time
now while it's in front of us and look at what are the actual ramifications.
• Why don't we do this as a referendum to the voters and let them decide
whether they want to go through with this program? Because I think there's a
lot of issues that are just not being addressed.
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Chairman Varian
Both speakers mentioned concerns about taxes, and we're just focused on the zoning
side.
You mentioned that once before. I don't think we should get clouded in that. I mean,
they're all valid points.
Robert Mulhere
If I was making the presentation, I'd certainly have somebody there to answer
questions.
Blair Foley
• I think so too. There is a lot of this going on now. We've investigated this.
There's this promulgated rule, and I think we're trying to separate the zoning
from the tax implications, but, invariably, they're connected.
• And I'm not quite sure why that wasn't part of all the research initially. I'm
really of the position that it's a collective, collaborative deal between the two,
and they should be looked at not just bring somebody at the time of a vote at
the public hearing, but maybe they should have been involved early on.
Perhaps it could be still discussed before it goes to those public hearings.
Chris Mitchell
• I thought it might be beneficial. The public doesn't come here very often, so
you might define our role in this whole process as a as a review committee.
• Chairman Varian
• For the public, just to explain. We are an advisory committee with 15
members. We make a recommendation to the planning commission of BCC.
The Board members come various industries or trades that we represent, but
we are just an advisory committee.
• And what we say doesn't really matter once it gets to the higher end. They
may take it under consideration. That's where we're at as a Board.
• I had a question and I'm just curious as to why it's only west of 951.
Eric Johnson
That's because that's what we were directed to do. Okay. We were not advised to open
it up in the rural subelement of the GGA&P.
Jeff Curl
I would just add one thing too because the last public speaker just brought up
probably the best point of all. How do you grant a zoning for only 5 years and then
take it away?
Eric Johnson
That is highlighted in yellow, language has been reviewed by the County Attorney's
Office and they felt that this would be acceptable at this point.
Clay Brooker
When you have a sunset clause, meaning the right is automatically going to go away,
Burt Harris Act only applies to things that are reasonably foreseeable in the future. If
you have something that's automatically going away, an argument exists that you
don't have a Burt Harris claim when that right is taken away from you because
everyone knows it's going away. It's not reasonably so foreseeable.
Jeff Curl
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That to me, is why the Property Appraiser needs to be there because that homestead
exemption or carve out also needs to sunset in theory.
Clay Brooker
My suggestion would be we need to just a couple of observations that I've already
been made by Eric is this is BCC directed from a pure zoning we put on our zoning
blinders. Does this make sense from a zoning perspective?
I guess. At least personally, it does, but there's serious consequences. Any
recommendation from this Board should come with that kind of qualification.
However, we recommend that all future public hearings be advised of with expert
advice as to the tax implications that are embedded.
Laura Spurgeon DeJohn
• Just make part of a recommendation moving forward that the fiscal impacts
quantify the ramifications of the property tax adjustments. There's going to be
a positive fiscal impact on the County, so that could be quantified.
• The statement that this is hoping to promote the goal of addressing the
affordable housing problem should be qualified with however, if there are
unknowns of the, you know, fiscal impacts to the property owner who will be
renting that home, it may not help the affordable housing problems in the
County. You know, you have to say both sides of the story because it sounds
positive, and it sounds like these great affordable opportunities are out there.
We're talking about financial outcomes that could be different.
Eric Johnson
• Let me just remind everyone that right now, renting of a guesthouse is not
allowed. Legally, with respect to taxing, I'd love to know more about it
myself. Uh, remember back in 2008 when there was the, you know, the
recession, the great recession, property values went down. So, there's a lot of
different things that impact property taxes, millage rates, you know, that could
change from one administration to the next. But certainly, I think having
someone be on hand at the public hearing from the tax office is a very
legitimate and, uh, prudent advice to staff.
Chairman Varian
Was t he thought process of the BCC that more homes more of these guesthouses
might be built? Or they're just trying to take the ones that are already built and put
them into the legal mix? Out of curiosity, do you was there any discussion on that?
Mike Bosi
• There was no discussion in terms of, uh, specifically if they anticipated more,
their urban estates are allowed guest houses. The relationship between the
prices that landlords can command and what the market's bearing is related to
your supply and demand curve. And the more supply that we can add, the
more positive we're in effect what those rents are. That's the overriding
message of what we're trying to do.
• We're trying to add a little bit more supply. The more supply should help with,
uh, a little bit of providing loosening of the demand side of the shop towards
where it may have an effect upon what the rents that are being commanded. At
the end of the day, I think there was anticipation if the if it was a legitimacy,
uh, to allowing guest houses to be ridden to be rented, that would spur the
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construction of more guest houses. I mean, we've had there there's over 3,000
guest houses within the within the study area, and there's only it's a little bit
above 10% of the of those that have guest houses. So, it's a very low number.
• And I think what they were hoping is if there is an allowance, more property
owners would build guest houses that could be rented that could help with the
supply and demand imbalance that we currently have. Um, so I think that was
the whole intent. And we had spoken with the property appraiser. We have
spoken with the tax collector. We had public information meetings.
• We had handouts from them, and we'll include those within the packages that
go to the planning commission and the board of county commissions with an
invitation from each one of those agencies to make sure that they're they have
representatives there to be able to expel why that they're obligated by state
statute to exempt properties that are being commercially rented from an
exemption that that's to provide for homeowners to, you know, to lessen that
tax burden. I understand that there's an increase in taxes, but there's an
increase in value that's going on for that individual property owner because
they're now renting out their house. And because of that, that doesn't that
disqualifies them from having that 3% cap upon there. And it's a different cap
there's a different tax rate that's associated with it. But we'll have, uh, uh,
members from each of those agencies to be able to describe why and why and
how specifically those taxing app implications are.
• We may add as part of one of the disclaimers in the actual land development
code itself, if the county attorney's office would agree, to suggest that any
property owner should explore their individual situation with both the tax
collector and the property appraiser because of the unique sec situation for
each individual property. Um, so that's I think that's the nutshell of what the
board was looking for. I I don't think that they were anticipating that this was
going to be a huge windfall for additional supply, but they thought it was one
measure to potentially explore within the urbanized area that has the network
of, uh, of transportation network to be able to handle the additional loads, um,
and potentially add additional supply to the to the equation.
• Any other questions? Do we take a I guess I can entertain a motion if that's
what we're going to do.
• Come on, Clay.
• The attorney. Again, you the subcommittee, you guys approved it.
Clay Brooker
I move to recommend approval of the proposed LDC amendment with a few
qualifications.
1. The Planning Commission and BCC be fully apprised of the tax implications
or potential tax implications of the proposal.
2. The fiscal impact on the memo proposal should be revised to raise that as a
potential fiscal impact as well.
3. Both sides that the fiscal impact to the County might be positive given the
additional revenue. On the flip side, the increase in the additional tax rate to
the homeowner might have an impact in the rents, which might affect
affordability.
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4. Be that qualification for the from the fiscal side of the of the cover memo
for the LDC amendment. That's my motion.
Mario Valle seconded
Chairman Varian
2 opposed
David Dunavant
Unintended consequences, you're gonna reduce the housing availability, and the
traffic load already exists right now. You’re not changing the traffic load.
Claudia from Public Utilities wants to give a quick update on the slides.
Just for the record I wanted to clarify the availability chart. The number of days is
referring to the bar chart, and the number of requests is for the line graph. The max
number of days we had for a response was 21 days in June, and that was due to
training.
Again, for the number of business days, it's referring to the bar chart, and so we've
been reducing the number of days that we've been getting back to the applicants.
He's at 4 now.
Laura Spurgeon DeJohn
You're just updating us to say in September it was a 4-day turnaround?
Blair Foley
Huge improvement. It's only a month ago. Then you're doing a wonderful job.
7. OLD BUSINESS
Clay Brooker
Manning the door at the voting poll yester was Stan Chudzianowski. He wanted
me to say hello to everyone, and he misses us all dearly.
Chairman Varian
Any other old business? Any other committee member comments?
Hearing none, I can entertain a motion to adjourn.
8. COMMITTEE MEMBER COMMENTS
9. ADJOURN
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was
adjourned at 4:18 p.m.
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Chairman William Varian
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