Agenda 11/12/2024 Item # 2B (Minutes from September 24, 2024)September 24,2024
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, September 24, 2024
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Derek Johnssen, Clerk's Office
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to
the BCC meeting.
We have a full agenda today. We're going to get some -- we're
going to get some work done today.
I just want to remind everyone to please silence your cell phone
if you have -- if you have not, and if you're signed up to public speak,
you've got three minutes to do so. At the two-and-a-half minute
mark, the yellow light will go off, and when the red light goes off,
we're going to do the next speaker, so be prepared for that. We have
a lot -- we have a lot to do today. Looking forward to it.
And with that, let's get started with the Lord.
Item #1A
INVOCATION BY PASTOR HEATH JARVIS - FAITH CHURCH
NAPLES; PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: BEN MANGO
INVOCATION GIVEN
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we have our invocation
led today by Pastor Heath Jarvis from Faith Church, Naples, followed
by the Pledge of Allegiance, Mr. Ben Mango, 97 years young, Army
1946 to 1949, glider, antitank, and airborne training for potential
action, Russia, and he says he's thankful that he didn't see action but
perhaps Patton was right.
PASTOR JARVIS: Good morning. Everyone, please pray.
Father in heaven, we thank you for this opportunity to come
together today as the leadership of Collier County. We are so
thankful and so blessed, Lord, to live in one of the most beautiful
places on earth. First of all, Lord, we want to pray for protection for
all of those who are in the path of Hurricane Helene. Lord, we ask
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you to lead and guide people to safety and also help people to prepare
for what's -- for what's coming ahead.
Now, Lord, today there's going to be issues that are presented
that many people here have emotional investment in, so I pray that a
spirit of peace and understanding falls over this -- all over this place
as ideas are presented and discussed.
And, more importantly, Lord, I pray that only the ideas which
line up with your will will receive any implementation.
In short, Lord, I ask that you do what you do best, make crooked
paths straight, open the eyes and ears of those who can't see and hear,
shut the mouths of lions, and let your will be done on earth as it is in
heaven. And I pray this in the name of Jesus, amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) - ITEM #16B6 CONTINUED TO FUTURE
MEETING, MOTION TO APPROVE AND/OR ADOPT BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS – APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, agenda changes for
September 24th, 2024.
First is to move Item 17A to 9F. This is a placement issue, as it
has companion items on the regular agenda. This is a
recommendation to approve VAC-PL20230007642 to disclaim,
renounce, and vacate the county and public interest in the
10-foot-wide public road right-of-way easement over the westerly
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10 feet of Tract A-1 as described in Official Record Book 1476, Page
242, of the public records of Collier County, Florida, located
approximately 2,000 feet south of Immokalee Road and 1,000 feet
west of Richards Street in Section 25, Township 48 South, Range 26
East, Collier County, Florida. This is being moved at staff's request,
and this will become Item 9F.
Second is to move Item 16A2 to 11H. This is a
recommendation to approve an agreement for sale and purchase
under the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program with Mark
Radel for a 1.14-acre parcel at a cost of $33,060, and Kausil
Seepersad, for a 1.14-acre parcel at a cost of $24,910, for a total cost
not to exceed 61,020, inclusive of closing costs. This item is being
moved at Commissioner LoCastro's request.
Item 11B will be heard at 10 a.m. This is a recommendation to
receive additional information regarding intersection safety and
countermeasures that may assist in reducing red light running. This
is being brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.
We do have an add-on item, that is 5A. This is an update on
potential Tropical Cyclone 9 from Dan Summers.
And a couple of notes. Item 9D is a companion of Item 9E.
Those are actually both coming up on a future agenda.
The signal -- I'm sorry. The signed fourth extension for
Item 16F4, an amendment, was after the agenda was published. And
in addition, Item 16F1, we added Commissioner McDaniel's
performance evaluation after the agenda was published, but it has
been made part of the public record.
With that, we have court reporter breaks at 10:30 and again at
2:50.
And, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, ex parte on the consent
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agenda and summary as well as any other changes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no changes, but I do have
e-mails on Item 17C on the summary.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, on the ex
parte -- there were quite a few, so I just want to make sure I'm not
missing one. On Item 17E, I had some telephone calls. This is the
Golden Gate Golf Course Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development.
And no other disclosure.
Mr. Chairman, I do have a flurry of e-mails in reference to
Item 16B6, and I think there are speakers, so I don't know what we
want to do with that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We're going to do that here in just a
second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Other than -- getting
back to that item, I have no other changes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning, Mr. Chair.
I, as well, have ex parte, meetings and e-mails, on 17E. You
want to manage 16B6 now, or do you want to -- do you want to go
through the rest of us?
CHAIRMAN HALL: I've got one change that I want to bring
to the agenda, and then we'll do the public -- we'll do the public
comment for 16B.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I -- my thought was if
we were of the mood to continue 16B6 and have it come back as an
actual public hearing, we could -- we could necessarily hear from
everybody that was interested in that one and actually have a hearing
on it. I wasn't really interested in doing it today but continuing that
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item.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Troy, how many speakers do we have on
16B6?
MR. MILLER: I have three in the room and two on Zoom.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We'll just do that today, then.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. We want to move it
up, or do you want to --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yeah, I'll pull it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. My consent and
summary, I have actually -- I actually had a short meeting on 17A
because I had a question about it, and on 17E, I had meetings and
e-mails, and on 17F I had a meeting.
CHAIRMAN HALL: And I have meetings on 17A as well and
no other ex parte. And if it would please the Board, I would like to
entertain bringing with a -- to have some discussion on 16D5. That's
the 1.7 million for David Lawrence Center, to pull that off and bring
it up.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. I believe that makes that
Item 11I.
CHAIRMAN HALL: 11I?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. Troy, let's get to the public
comment on the consent agenda.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. 16B6, your first speaker is Trent
Waterhouse. He'll be followed by Tony D'Errico.
MR. D'ERRICO: Other way around.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Other way around.
MR. D'ERRICO: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioners.
My name is Tony D'Errico. I am the president of Pelican Bay
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Foundation.
We were surprised to learn that Item 16B6 was placed on your
consent agenda this morning. This action is counter to what was
previously communicated to the Foundation and we believe is a
direct violation of a PUD ordinance under Section 12.03, requiring a
public hearing on the matter.
While we fully understand that the county may or may not be
swayed by the wishes of the affected parties, on behalf of my board
of directors and the 15,000 residents that reside in Pelican Bay, I
respectfully request that this item is removed from the consent
agenda and duly -- and heard at a duly noticed public meeting.
Thank you for your service to the community, and I cede the
remainder of my time to Trent Waterhouse.
MR. WATERHOUSE: Good morning, Commissioners. Good
to see you again.
I'm here today requesting Item 16B6 be removed from today's
consent agenda. It's a recommendation from county transportation
to install a connection between Seagate Drive and Crayton Road,
which would create the 12th public entrance into Pelican Bay.
Commissioner Hall, you've previously referred to this new
bicycle path as fixing a safety issue. It actually creates a larger
safety issue by directing cyclists down Crayton Road in Pelican Bay,
which has no bicycle sharrows, no bicycle path, no yellow center
line, no stop signs, and no traffic lights due to how narrow that road
is.
This is the only road to exit Pelican Bay for the cars from 900
residents who live along this stretch of Crayton Road.
The safest bike path to use is Myra Janco Daniels Boulevard. It
is two-tenths of a mile further east. This route has bike sharrows and
the necessary traffic lights and stop signs to ensure safe turns for
bicyclists and motorist as they share the road. MJD is already used
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by Naples Pathway Coalition, Naples Velo Cycling groups, and
Commissioner Hall himself. The MJD bike route has no incremental
cost to Collier County and is supported by the surrounding churches,
residents, and commercial neighbors.
Pelican Bay fully supports bicycle and pedestrian safety,
security, and stewardship within our three square miles of the PUD;
however, there are 14 organizations that remain opposed to this new
bike pathway as they were in May of 2024: The Pelican Bay
Foundation, $8 billion in property tax value, 70 percent of those
property tax revenues that go to the general Collier County fund; the
Pelican Bay Presidents Council representing our 90 neighborhood
associations; the Pelican Bay Property Owners Association with
3,000 residents and 1,200 registered voters who are concerned about
their property rights and their property valuations; the Pelican Bay
Services Division who is responsible for the management of the
Pelican Bay Natural Resource Protection Area; Artis-Naples; the
Naples Grande Resort. This pathway will be intersected by their
new building that is planned. There is also a permissive use
easement issue; the Naples United Church of Christ; Seagate
Elementary School; St. Williams Church; Waterside Shops; Naples
City Council, who is discouraging more bicycle traffic on the narrow
neighborhood streets west of U.S. 41; the Collier MPO
Bicycle/Pedestrian Advisory Council which supports Livingston
Road as north/south route; the Seagate Neighborhood Association;
and the Parkshore Neighborhood Association.
Collier County Ordinance 04-59 passed and duly opted on the
21st of September in 2004 states, "Rights-of-way for the extension of
Crayton Road into Pelican Bay shall be dedicated as part of platting;
however, the construction of the Crayton Road connection shall not
be authorized until a public hearing is held with due public notice to
receive input from surrounding property owners."
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No such properly noticed public meeting has been held, nor has
any independent traffic study been conducted to document and
validate the safety issue commented on by Commissioner Hall. No
environmental study, noise study, or financial feasibility study has
been completed.
On March 2024, Collier MPO Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory
Committee survey does not list Seagate/Crayton intersection as an
urgent need for safety improvements.
Gopher tortoise, little blue heron, and Red-cockaded
Woodpecker are protected species documented within the Natural
Resource Protection Area. As part of Pelican Bay's unique
environmental stewardship duties, the Foundation has been vigilant
in preserving its legal right to protect and preserve the NRPA, and the
Florida Department of Environmental Protection has acknowledged
its legal right to do so.
Please remove Item 16B6 from today's consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Mr. Waterhouse.
MR. WATERHOUSE: Thank you for everything you do to
keep Collier County the best place to work and play.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Schultz. He'll be
followed on Zoom by Susan O'Brien.
I'd like to remind our Zoom speakers, when you're prompted to
unmute, please do so promptly.
MR. SCHULTZ: Good morning, Commissioners. I appreciate
the time to visit with you here. I'm not coming to speak about the
Collier County Coastal Storm Risk Management Ad Hoc Advisory
Committee, which is a mouthful, but I am here to join the folks in
Pelican Bay in regards to the bike path.
I live right around the corner from that, and that is a nasty
intersection when season comes. The people from out of town, they
come rolling in and just don't pay attention to stop signs whatsoever.
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Now, you have people in my building in particular that are getting up
in years, 80, 85, and they still drive, but they're sort of blinded at
night with shadows between 5 and 6.
I went personally and walked the territory where this bike path
is going to be. I was told by a commissioner that the wear on the
one side was much too so that it needs to be a sidewalk. I looked at
that totally different. The people that come buzzing through that
cul-de-sac area could simply just go to the left and exit through the
parking lot. But by going up that hill, they're going to have to go
over these roots of two trees that are huge that are going to have to be
cut down if you want to put a sidewalk there.
So you've got a number of issues. You can see that there's no
wear on the street side -- wear, w-e-a-r -- on the street side on
Seagate Drive. You can't -- you can't see it, but I understand that it's
there.
It wasn't long ago that I approached Commissioner Kowal about
that same intersection, as he's my commissioner. It pertains to
putting up a light, a light signal. It was explained to me why that
was not practical nor feasible, and I respect that.
But there should be better markings, because there are a lot of
senior citizens back there. In my building alone, there's 93 residents,
and right now there's only 11 in the building. So we would be able
to get a whole lot more bodies here when season comes into play.
So I would encourage you to take this off the agenda for today and
have a separate hearing on it, and I thank you for your time and
consideration.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Could I ask a quick question?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Unrelated to what you just
got done talking about, you made mention when we spoke yesterday
about a prepayment that's already been accomplished by the folks
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that live in your subdivision about the burying of the power lines.
Can we ask that staff do a look into that with FPL to find out why
that hasn't been accomplished? If I heard you correctly, there was
quite a bit of money that was already paid for the -- for the relocation
of those power lines, and it's not yet accomplished, nor have we
heard any reason why.
MR. SCHULTZ: That is correct, and we had -- there was a
vote on the ballot for all the residents that live back in Naples Cay
and Seagate, and -- unanimous. It's like 70 percent, so it's not quite
unanimous, but close, as it pertains to that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't want to belabor that
point.
MR. SCHULTZ: We paid $4,000.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't want to belabor the
point. I just want to give direction to staff to look into it and get us a
report back.
MR. SCHULTZ: Thank you. We've prepaid already, so,
again, thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is Susan O'Brien.
She will be followed also on Zoom by Elizabeth Schultz.
Susan, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so
at this time. There you are you. Well, you keep unmuting and then
re-muting. We'll give this one more shot, Susan. There you go.
Are you ready?
MS. O'BRIEN: Yes. Thank you.
Good morning, Commissioners.
As you know, Commissioner Hall proposed constructing a bike
path at Crayton Road and Seagate Drive months ago. The Pelican
Bay community pushed back on this proposal because it was being
sought by a dozen or so cyclists, including Commissioner Hall, who
were seeking a shortcut through Pelican Bay, and also, this bike path
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was not part of Collier County's short- or long-term plans to improve
bike safety in the county. The proposal was withdrawn.
Now, with 80 percent of Pelican Bay residents not in Naples,
Commissioner Hall has placed this proposal on the consent agenda.
Please request that this item be removed from the consent
agenda and placed as a regular agenda item on a BCC meeting during
the upcoming season so all interested Pelican Bay members will have
an opportunity to speak before the BCC takes action.
One of the strengths of this BCC is your commitment to allow
those most affected by your decisions an opportunity to speak at your
public meetings before you take action. Please continue this
citizen-friendly practice by rescheduling this agenda item.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker on this item is
Elizabeth Schultz.
Elizabeth, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
so at this time. Elizabeth, you have three minutes.
MS. SCHULTZ: Hello. Hello, good morning. My name is
Elizabeth Schultz. I am president of the Pelican Bay Property
Owners Association, and we approximately have 1,200 members, and
we are getting an overwhelming response in the spring and now at
this time of members that are opposed to the opening of this pathway.
We are asking that the BCC please remove this from the agenda
today until a public hearing can be held. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right. We've had one other speaker join
here, Mr. -- Chairman Hall. Anne Georger-Harris.
Anne, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so
at this time. Anne, you have three minutes.
MS. GEORGER-HARRIS: Hi, this is Anne Georger-Harris,
and I want to just say that this is not a good time to be considering
something that is so impactful for Pelican Bay residents. Pelican
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Bay residents are not in attendance.
I am the vice president of the Pelican Bay Property Owners
Association, and I was only made aware of this item being on the
agenda yesterday. I just had not noticed it on the BCC agenda. So
there's others that don't know that it was on the agenda, too. I'm not
the only person that doesn't know.
So I'm just -- what I'm saying is I think we need to sincerely and
absolutely take that item off the consent agenda and go with the
proposition -- the proposal or the situation in our PUD which
provides for that not open -- being opened up unless there's a public
hearing.
I'm unaware of there ever having been a public hearing. I think
we need to have a public hearing, and I think that's the way to do it,
and I think the public hearing should be scheduled sometime January
through March when we have -- the majority of Pelican Bay residents
are in attendance.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: And that concludes our public speakers on
Item 16B6.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great. So thank you for the speakers.
And when I brought this forward, I wasn't trying to ramrod anything.
To me, it's common sense. And instead of getting into it right now, I
think we will just go ahead and postpone this, if it's fine with
everybody else, and bring it back to a public hearing. We can have
full discussion, full disclosure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In November.
CHAIRMAN HALL: In November is not going to happen,
because you're going to be hunting.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's -- that's an incorrect
statement. It is an environmental wildlife survey.
CHAIRMAN HALL: There we go. But, no, I'll bring it back,
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and we'll have a full discussion on one condition, that the people of
Pelican Bay can treat this with respect and dignity, and we'll listen to
everything -- I've never been treated more rudely in the two years that
I've been here when I had my town hall. If they can commit to that,
I'll commit to postpone this and bring it back, and we'll have a great
discussion instead of a mean-spirited, accusatory -- you know, we're
going to sit up here and listen, but you have a chance to be effective,
and you also have a chance to be ineffective.
So with that, County Manager, let's just strike this from the
consent agenda today, and we'll bring this back at a later date when
everybody's here, and we can have a good discussion.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We'll continue to a future
meeting.
One other housekeeping matter. When commissioner -- or
when Dan -- sorry. Ooh, I just promoted him. When Director
Summers comes up to give his presentation on the potential storm,
we do have an emergency -- a local state of emergency prepared for
your discussion.
So County Attorney Klatzkow, if you could just advise the
Board of the procedure for that so that we don't have to reconvene
another meeting.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, the process is that you find enough
reasons to declare the emergency declaration. We would also have
companion items to that for looting and what have you. It should be,
like, four or five documents.
I would suggest we do it today because, otherwise, if this
hurricane changes course, we're going to have to bring you in.
MS. PATTERSON: So Mr. Summers has been working on
those. We'll be able to address that as part of his presentation, but
we want to make that note for the record so that when we approve the
changes to the agenda, that's also noted.
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And with that --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Can I get a motion to approve the
consent agenda as changed -- as amended?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: So moved.
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Items #2B, #2C, and #2D
AUGUST 13, 2024, BCC MEETING MINUTES, AUGUST 27,
2024, BCC MEETING MINUTES, AND SEPTEMBER 5, 2024,
BCC BUDGET HEARING MINUTES - MOTION TO APPROVE
AS PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if you'd like to take the
minutes of 2A, 2B, and 2C. So that's the August 13th, 2024, BCC
minutes; August 27th, 2024, BCC minutes; and the September 5th,
2024, BCC budget hearing minutes, if you'd like to take them as one
motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All at once, I'll make a
motion.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
Item #3A1a
20 YEAR ATTENDEE - ALINA GONZALEZ- FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT – PRESENTED
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MS. PATTERSON: Very good, that brings us to Item 3,
awards and recognitions. We have several employees here today.
Our first employee, a 20-year attendee, is Alina Gonzalez from
Facilities Management. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
Item #3A1b
TWENTY-FIVE YEAR ATTENDEE - MICHAEL STONE - ROAD,
BRIDGE, AND STORMWATER MAINTENANCE – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Twenty-five years, Michael Stone, Road,
Bridge, and Stormwater Maintenance. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You might be busy this week.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Get your diesel loaded up.
(Applause.)
ITEM #3A1C
30 YEAR ATTENDEES - MICHAEL OSSORIO- PARKS &
RECREATION – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Our 30-year awardee is somebody we all
know and love, Mike Ossorio, Parks and Recreation.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Go, Navy.
I thought we fired you.
(Applause.)
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Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 11TH, 2024, AS
BIG CYPRESS NATIONAL PRESERVE DAY – MOTION TO
ADOPT BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 4,
proclamations.
Item 4A is a proclamation designating October 11th, 2024, as
Big Cypress National Preserve Day. It will be accepted by Tom
Forsyth, Big Cypress National Preserve superintendent.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you'll let me go off road,
I'll bring my buggy.
MR. FORSYTH: How do you turn -- oh, we're good, okay.
Whenever you want to, Bill, come on down.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. FORSYTH: I'd like to say thank you to the
commissioners for recognizing 50 years of protecting and stewarding
this public land. As a unit of the National Park Service, Big Cypress
National Preserve, 730,000 acres largely within Collier County, home
of the Florida panther, tip of the spear on the research on the python,
and just a good place to go hang out on an airboat or a swamp buggy
or maybe do some wildlife surveys.
We have a big celebration going on this fall, so we invite all of
you and all the Collier County residents to come out and visit us,
whether it's night sky programs with our rangers or the Swamp
Heritage Festival, which is going to be a big good time.
So I invite all of you to come out, find the park that's in your
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backyard, unit of the National Park Service, Big Cypress National
Preserve.
Thank the commissioners once again for this proclamation
recognizing the 50th anniversary. Appreciate you guys. Thank you
for what you do.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
AND ACHIEVEMENT OF THE COLLIER COUNTY ADULT
FELONY DRUG COURT - MOTION TO ADOPT BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation recognizing 25
years of service and achievement of the Collier County Adult Felony
Drug Court to be accepted by Judge Janeice Martin, presiding judge.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
JUDGE MARTIN: Commissioners, Ms. County Manager,
good morning. And I know you-all have a lot today, so I'll keep it
very brief.
But thank you-all so much for the proclamation and the
recognition, and thank you-all, those of you who were able to join us
last Tuesday for the celebration. It meant the world to all of the
moms and dads and sons and daughters and brothers and sisters,
employees and employers that we have served over our 25 years in
trying to turn their lives around and become productive members of
our community. Your support means the world to all of us, and so
we thank you for that continued support.
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Page 20
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a motion
to accept the proclamations.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded to accept the
proclamations. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
Item #5A
UPDATE ON POTENTIAL TROPICAL CYCLONE NINE FROM
DAN SUMMERS – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Very good. That brings us to Item -- our
add-on Item 5A. This is an update on potential Tropical Cyclone 9
from Dan Summers, your director of Emergency Management.
MR. SUMMERS: Commissioners, good morning. For the
record, Dan Summers, director of Emergency Management.
And before I kick off our discussion, real quick, I want to take a
minute and thank the Emergency Management team. We just
finished, Saturday, a relocation to our Logistics Support Center at the
Emergency Services Center. Now, we borrowed a lot of help and
favors and friends to help get that relocation done concurrently with
making sure that we have a high-readiness posture for the remainder
of the hurricane season.
So a big thanks to my team and the facilities team, project
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management team that helped us get into that facility.
It's not quite ready for prime time yet, you know, when you
unload and move boxes, but we'll have our work finished soon, and
we'll have you over to show the success and the new capability that
Collier County has. So a big thank you for that.
Let's jump right in. Just a couple of things I want to highlight.
I want to just go over lifelines with you real quick. The State of
Florida governor, Governor DeSantis, did declare a local -- I'm
sorry -- an executive order for about 37-some counties involved with
potential Hurricane Helene. Some timeline issues, obviously, we
like to discuss stormwater. Ms. Lisa Koehler is here as well as
Trinity to discuss stormwater operations, and then we'll talk a little
bit about general operational concerns.
There are placeholders here for the Sheriff, for the school
system, Utilities, Florida Department of Health, or municipalities, if
there's anything they would like to add to the discussion, and, of
course, as County Attorney Klatzkow said, a recommendation to
move forward with a local state of emergency.
Our community lifelines, I introduced this the last time that we
met, I believe, during Hurricane Debby. Just to let you know that
basically our badges here -- our merit badges are all green meaning
that things are operational. Energy, power, and fuel is just
something we're going to monitor carefully here for the next week or
so. We've already engaged in discussions with Florida Power &
Light who now has 7,000 personnel in staging for this event.
Food and water, everything is normal operations; however -- and
we'll talk about the storm track associated with this discussion. But
right now it is my continued hope -- we know hope's not a planning
strategy, but it's our continued hope that this forecast allows us an
opportunity not to open shelters, not to have mandatory evacuations,
et cetera. It doesn't mean that we're not going to be subject to some
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storm surge discussions, obviously, but hopefully, because of lower
wind speeds and the present track -- and, again, everything has an
asterisk or a question mark at this point, but hopefully this becomes
an event that does not have direct impact to Southwest Florida.
Moving on. All of our medical systems are in good shape.
We've spoken with our hospital partners, our Florida Department of
Health. So everything is green in that area and, as you might expect,
some transportation delays in the next few days. We'll see how that
all plays out.
Governor DeSantis declared the -- issued the executive order
yesterday. Collier County is included in that, and we've been in very
close coordination, calls with the state EOC twice a day, on making
sure that resources and opportunities for tactical movement were in
place. I'm very pleased with the State of Florida's response at this
point with contractors as well as Guard resources being readily
available.
There is a big discussion of a lot of the east coast counties, if
they're not impacted, as well as some of us that might get by without
any impacts, making sure that some of our rural counties and fiscally
constrained counties can request some future aid from local
government units, as we have typically done. We started the
discussion on the 23rd.
The advisories continue. As you know, we got the tropical
storm watches issued yesterday. We continue to watch the radar.
The big fear, obviously, is the opportunity for this storm to escalate
quickly, not only in forward motion, but intensity as well as breadth,
and we'll see how that track continues to hold.
Again, our rule of thumb is we're going to monitor the track. A
forecast is a forecast is a forecast. But, historically, we know that if
we see even little shifts in this storm track, it can have some pretty
significant impacts on our storm surge inundation. We will continue
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to keep our fingers crossed, too, that we don't get anything that
approaches hurricane wind speeds.
Some takeaways real quick: Again, the highest probabilities of
tropical storm force winds are along the gulf coast. We also know
that, again, there is this potential for a very large storm, meaning
large impacts. Must be mindful that a shift in the forecast track
could change our impacts.
And one of the reasons that I am moving forward with a request
for the local state of emergency is we want to make sure that we can
completely operate quickly should we have a meteorological surprise
here in the next 24 to 48 hours. Again, it's all part of being properly
postured.
A real situation, a quick situation overview. We saw a little bit
of improvement yesterday in some of the storm surge inundation. I
say "improvement"; a reduction in those levels, there was some 4- to
6-foot discussions yesterday with some preliminary model runs.
That's now down to 2 to 4 feet, but that, again, is subject to change
based on the track and based on ultimate intensity.
So that's a quick summary of the timing that we expect some of
these impacts.
Wind impacts below 57 miles per hour are tropical storm, and as
you know, we can get some 50-mile-an-hour winds in a severe
thunderstorm. But this is the model guidance that was provided at
5 a.m. this morning looking at tropical storm force winds potential.
Again, we use the word "potential." A moderate amount of, you
know -- a moderate level of agreeing with the impacts, but the
vulnerability is yet really to be determined based on track.
Wind impacts above 58 miles per hour, this is good if this track
holds, and as you can see that Collier County would really be on the
fringe or, as the hurricane service has -- Hurricane Center has
mentioned, less than one-in-10 chance across South Florida of
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anything above 58 miles per hour, and again, we -- that is something
that we can reasonably tolerate wind-wise. It doesn't mean there
couldn't be a power pole or a tree down but, generally speaking,
something like this does not force us into any evacuation or
relocation efforts.
Storm surge threats right along our immediate coast and, of
course, we are watching tides. Again, a forward motion will impact
timing, and timing and tides will go together in this particular
environment. So we'll have to just kind of wait and see.
The 2 to 4 feet, in my opinion, is something that we can
generally tolerate. It doesn't mean there won't be some occasional
impacts, localized road flooding, may be a little bit of flooding down
in Everglades City, but it's not something that we anticipate staying
for a long period of time. Again, all of this remains track-and-tide
dependent.
So the final takeaways, strong wind gusts, storm surge flooding
is possible, freshwater flooding. The rainfall, again, will change, the
rainfall estimates. The good news, certainly, is that we've had a
couple of dry days, although we have had a very wet summer. We
can't rule out tornadic activity anytime these thunderstorms or bands
come across our area, and, certainly, it remains dangerous for our
marine interest.
I'll turn it over to -- Lisa Koehler is here from the Water
Management District, our -- kind of our right-arm partner in all of
these activities, and she can talk a little bit about the status of the
district.
MS. KOEHLER: Good morning, Commissioners. Lisa
Koehler, South Florida Water Management District.
We have started making room in the canals starting Sunday, so a
couple days ago. This morning, especially with the low tide, we are
taking advantage of those releases, and most of our canal systems are
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below our normal operating criteria. So we're in really good shape
for this predicted rain event. As Dan always says, we have to keep
in mind the predictions, and we're in good shape. So I think, you
know, as long as everything continues on the path that it currently is
on, we're well-situated.
We've been working very closely with your Collier County staff
in streets and stormwater in coordinating, excuse me, all of those
releases. So if you have any questions, I'm happy to take them.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, thank you.
A few years ago we had a discussion about water from Bonita
Springs being kind of focused back towards Collier County.
MS. KOEHLER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I know that we had a lot
of discussion about whether there might be something done that
would impact Collier County in a very negative way, and my
understanding is that was resolved. But can you elaborate on that or,
if not today, at some point --
MS. KOEHLER: No, absolutely. I can answer that for you.
So we set up a series of criteria both for downstream areas and
the areas that would be directly impacted along Logan Boulevard.
So there are certain things that have to happen. One is you have to
have a declared state of emergency first before Bonita would be
allowed to pump. Our canal levels have to be below where they
would normally be so we could accept any discharges from Bonita
Springs.
Our downstream levels, so areas, say, from Goodlette-Frank to
the coast, have to be in acceptable ranges as well. If there's
downstream flooding, I can't take additional water from Bonita
Springs and put into those areas.
So, basically, it has to be perfect conditions from us before we
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could accept any water from Bonita Springs.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So those of us in Collier
County can rest assured that we're not going to have an issue in
dealing with water from the north?
MS. KOEHLER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're happy to see excess
room in the canals. It's been deep for about two months.
MS. KOEHLER: It has. We've had above-average rainfalls
for this year, and we're lucky that we've had a couple of dry weeks
moving into this, which is completely different than where we were
for Tropical Storm Debby. So I think in much better shape than we
were a month ago.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Lisa.
MS. KOEHLER: You're welcome.
MS. SCOTT: Trinity Scott, Transportation Management
Services department head.
In coordination with the Big Cypress Basin, we actually started
drawdowns last week just knowing that we were dealing with some
high-tide situations, and it would take us some time to be able to
draw down.
We're continuing those efforts and working with all of our folks
to make sure that we have additional resources on staff throughout
this event. And, as always, for anyone who is seeing flooding, if
their home or structure's at risk, please contact 311.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, both.
Some general-operational concerns, the EOC, the joint
information center, the Hurricane Information Hotline activation
timing has not yet been determined. Again, we don't want to
overstaff. We don't want to understaff. We want to make sure that
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we're timing that associated with need.
The EOC director, yours truly, and the County Manager, we can
activate and scale those resources at any time deemed necessary. So,
again, a lot of this track-dependent, time-dependent, as well as
intensity.
All general population shelter supplies are staged and in place.
All of our special medical needs, things like oxygen, durable medical
equipment, all of that equipment is also staged and ready for
immediate deployment.
We continue to remind our residents to subscribe to Alert Collier
to keep that information going to you, and you can set that account up
online as well as control the timing, the notifications that you wish to
receive.
There will be local government notification as well as direct
notifications from the National Weather Service, and be sure and
acknowledge that call. If not, we'll call you again. The machine
will call you again.
Let me see if any of our partner agencies have anything to add.
We had a 2 o'clock call yesterday with all of our partner agencies to
kind of set the stage for the next few days. We'll continue those
coordination calls at 2 o'clock every day. The agencies that we
spoke with yesterday, including the municipalities, the Sheriff,
everyone is staged in position, has their plans ready.
And like us, kind of -- we've really got to see what the ultimate
track and intensity is going to be and then be ready to react quickly.
I sort of frame our information's posture as everything's ready to
go except turn on the coffee pot. So other than that, we're ready to
respond accordingly.
I am requesting that you consider a local state of emergency.
My thanks to County Attorney Jeff Klatzkow who pulled that
together for us on short notice. Again, it just allows us the ability to
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move quickly. It supports our personnel. It supports mutual-aid
response and also gives us the tools that -- if for some reason we get a
big surprise or have to react quickly, the local state of emergency
allows us to do that properly and efficiently and as cost effectively as
we possibly can.
I am not recommending any curfews or prohibitions with this
local state of emergency. This is just to put the framework in place.
If we have to escalate to some of those curfews or restrictions,
prohibitions, et cetera, working through the County Manager, I
believe we can convey that to you and get those approved, those
subsequent resolutions approved or have them approved as a
contingency.
And finally, again, reminding our guests and visitors and our
residents to watch this storm carefully. We don't want a surprise.
We want you to continue your individual and family hurricane
preparedness. If you're in an extremely flood vulnerable location or
storm surge vulnerable location, let's make sure that you have a plan
to temporarily relocate.
I'll stop right there for questions or comments.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Well, I'd like to go
ahead and make a motion that we authorize the declaration of
emergency, and I would also like to designate yourself, Mr. Chair, to
act as the liaison for the Board with regard to any decision-making
with regard to curfews and so ons and so forth that need to be done.
I know when Ian came through -- I think I was the Chair back in
those days, and I did those things in abstentia with the Board, and
then we brought it back after the fact. So as a portion of my motion,
I'd like that to -- if it isn't already clarified in the declaration of
emergency, I'd like to have that added.
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Item #5B
PROCLAMATION/RESOLUTION 2024-183: DECLARATION
OF A LOCAL STATE OF EMERGENCY (ALL DISTRICTS) -
PROCLAMATION/RESOLUTION 2024-183; MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED
MR. KLATZKOW: I've got Troy set up to give you the four
documents that we'd like you to consider. The first one is the state
of emergency declaration; it's on the overhead now.
Troy, if you can scroll down.
And if I can get a motion to approve this document.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded for this resolution.
All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Is that also including me as the liaison?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're getting that right here.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, it was.
MR. KLATZKOW: The appropriations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Troy's hitting buttons.
Item #5C
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RESOLUTION 2024-184: DEBRIS REMOVAL - MOTION FOR
DEBRIS REMOVAL BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL – ADOPTED
MR. KLATZKOW: This gives staff the authority to start
spending money should an event occur.
And, again, Troy, I'd ask you to scroll this done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Done deal.
MR. KLATZKOW: The debris.
The third one is for debris removal, which is probably the most
important thing we do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Depends on which end of the
receiver you are.
MR. KLATZKOW: That's true.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
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Page 31
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I've got a fourth one here. And I
know we did this differently in the past, but the last hurricane event
we had with the curfew, the Sheriff had difficulties in court enforcing
it because it wasn't done by the entire board. So I would ask you to
consider approving this document as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that gives the
responsibility to the Chairman to make these decisions accordingly,
ratified by the Board?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. It gives -- it declares an emergency
curfew by the Board. And, again, the reason for this is that the
Sheriff had difficulty in court on our last hurricane event enforcing
our curfew.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm not sure I understand
what you just said. We are not declaring a curfew today, are we?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, you're approving the form.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, for --
MR. KLATZKOW: You're approving the curfew and the form,
and if it's necessary, it will be implemented.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: How does it get
implemented?
MR. KLATZKOW: The County Manager will call the Chair.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. That's fine, I just
wanted to make sure we're not --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's what I -- that's what I
was reading while Troy was scrolling, or whoever was scrolling
there. It was Troy.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Where does it say we're going to have
burritos in the shelter?
MR. KLATZKOW: I thought we had tacos.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So no Doritos. So moved.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded. All those in
favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chair. A couple
of related items to really just get on the record.
Dan, you know, you talk about the close relationship, that FPL's
ready to go. A big chunk of my district falls under LCEC. So just
for the record, you know, people that are watching, I didn't want, you
know, people in, you know, Marco Island, Isles of Capri, to be
thinking, well, what about us. And Tricia Dorn is always incredibly
responsive, so that's really just a --
MR. SUMMERS: I should have included them as well. But I
spoke with Trish yesterday.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, and I knew you did.
To Ms. Patterson, obviously, if anything that we just approved
has to go through the Chairman, and, you know, he has the authority
to speak on our behalf to keep things moving, then you'll shoot
something out and go, "Guess what we just did," right?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: So that we will know that.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely.
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COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: To Trinity, you don't need to
come to the podium, but, you know, I obviously have some really
significant low-lying areas in Goodland, on the way to Goodland,
Henderson Creek, roads that often flood just in rainstorms. So
those -- signage that we normally put out, you know, just, you know,
make sure it's not buried in the warehouse somewhere, and I know it's
not. But I wanted to get that on the record that, you know, we do an
awful lot in my district in areas when there's not even a hurricane.
It's just a king tide and heavy rain, and those roads are impassable.
And we don't have the where -- or the means to all of a sudden
just raise all those roads and make them 15 feet higher. We've done
that in some areas like the road to Goodland and whatnot. But I just
wanted to mention that. Also, for anybody that's watching thinking
that, you know -- I want them to know that we've thought of that.
And then, lastly, for you, Dan -- and this may sound tongue in
cheek, but I think it's a great reminder to all when you talk about the
difference between if we do have to open up shelters, the difference
between Love Boat and lifeboat, because so many people run to the
shelters thinking that it's going to be, you know, hotel-like, you
know, atmosphere, and it really isn't. Give the short version of the
difference that, when you pull the trigger on shelters, what they are
and what they aren't, and then I have one more last comment after
that.
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, sir, thank you for that.
And, again, our partnership with Collier County Schools is
really what makes that evacuation shelter program work along with
county employees that work with school district personnel to
basically open up the certain areas of the school and say, "Here is a
spot. Here is a refuge." We encourage you, if you have to
evacuate, you need to bring your own bedding, you need to bring
your own snacks, your own medication, your own quiet games for the
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children, et cetera.
So, again, not everybody gets a cot. We do as best that we can
to provide some basic supplies. The school system will do the very
best it can with the resources it has for some basic food service.
But, again, what we are providing you is a sound structure and a
basic refuge, and other than that, we're doing the very best that we
can to get you out of harm's way.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Lastly, I just wanted to remind the public that it doesn't take an
evacuation for you to evacuate, and a perfect example -- this happens
a lot in my district. We all have elderly people or people with severe
medical problems. So if you weren't -- you weren't told to evacuate,
it doesn't look like the storm's even going to hit us in a direct manner,
but just like Mr. Summers said, a giant tree could fall on an electrical
cable and all of a sudden blow out 10,000 homes that don't have
power, and then we're immediately getting calls going, you know,
"My husband's on an oxygen machine, and you need to get LCEC
over here immediately and restore power to my house," and it doesn't
work that way.
Sometimes we have major grids that blow out and put an entire
neighborhood without power. And if you rely on power to keep
yourself alive, these are the type of storms that you might want to
consider going somewhere that has a less chance of losing power.
Even a storm like this could blow out power for hours, for a day,
even when we don't have the significant winds.
And I've had that happen a lot in my district, and my phone, you
know, blows up. And it's like, you know, "Get Tricia Dorn from
LCEC over here, you know. We have a transformer that blew."
And the reality is they don't run all over town restoring power to
single homes because, you know, you had a medical crisis in your
house that relied on power. You didn't have battery backup or
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generators, and now all of a sudden, you're in an emergent crisis.
So, you know, it's not just all about the evacuation. It's about
your need on county resources to sustain yourself. And if you think
that's a possibility of not being able to happen just due to a bad storm,
then you need to have a backup plan of going somewhere.
MR. SUMMERS: A backup plan is mission critical, and you
are correct. Our most critical special-needs clients, we've already
been checking on those. There's about a dozen or so that we -- our
Florida Department of Health Collier is checking on some of those
clients.
But you need to be as self-sufficient as you possibly can, and
that, in your hurricane kit, is a minimum seven days. And in a case
like this, whether it's backup generator, backup battery power, or
going in town to a hotel or family or friends is a much, much better
option than going to a shelter, for comfort and stress, based on the
resources that we have.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. SUMMERS: Very good. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Mr. Summers, thank you. Lisa, thank
you. County Attorney, thanks for the forward thinking. It's
important to know that we're doing our best to be proactive and not
reactive in these situations. We appreciate the update, so thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, one last comment on this.
We are working through the final details on our sandbagging
program. Once the locations and hours are determined, then we will
put out a press release. We'll work with Mr. Mullins on information
for the public.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Good. Thank you.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, all.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Time-certain.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. That brings us -- three minutes
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before our time-certain, but I think we're ready to go.
Item #11B
RECEIVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REGARDING
INTERSECTION SAFETY AND COUNTERMEASURES THAT
MAY ASSIST IN REDUCING RED LIGHT RUNNING.
(TRINITY SCOTT, DEPARTMENT HEAD - TRANSPORTATION
MANAGEMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT) COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS REQUEST) - MOTION FOR TRANSPORTATION
STAFF TO PREPARE A BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE BLUE
LIGHTS AT DIFFERENT INTERSECTIONS, COME BACK
WITH HOW MANY LIGHTS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE
SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT. SHERIFF TO COME BACK WHEN
HE HAS THE INFORMATION HE NEEDS IN TERMS OF
STAFFING AND RESOURCES TO HELP THESE
INTERSECTIONS BECOME SAFER, DIRECT PRODUCTIVITY
COMMITTEE TO EVALUATE THE COST AND BENEFITS OF
RED-LIGHT CAMERAS AND COME BACK OVER A
REASONABLE PERIOD TO LET US KNOW WHAT OTHER
COMMUNITIES ARE DOING WITH RED LIGHT CAMERAS BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
This is Item 11B. This is a recommendation to receive
additional information regarding intersection safety and
countermeasures that may assist in reducing red light running.
This item is brought to the agenda originally at Commissioner
Saunders' request, and we are going to start the presentation, I
believe, with Transportation, Trinity Scott, your department head
from Transportation Management Services department.
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MS. SCOTT: Once again, Trinity Scott. I'm going to be really
quick and turn it over to Anthony Khawaja, our chief engineer, to
begin our presentation.
MR. KHAWAJA: Good morning. For the record, Anthony
Khawaja, chief traffic operations engineer.
We are back here today because you guys asked us to come back
from the previous meeting, and we wanted to talk about intersection
safety.
The Sheriff mentioned the three Es that governs intersection
safety, which is enforcement, education, and engineering. A lot of
people refer to a fourth E, which is emergency response or EMS is
another E, the fourth E, and that's, you know, the quick -- they can
respond; they can save lives and reduce the energy -- the injuries at
the scene.
I wanted to assure you that we take a look at all the crashes
within Collier County. This is a map that shows the last 10 years of
crashes. It's a heat map. And you can tell it's -- you know, the more
populated area is where most of the crashes occur within Collier
County.
I wanted to go over some of our fatal crashes that occurs within
the county. This is going back 10 years, and that's from 2014.
The orange line, which is the first line, the highest, is all of
Collier County. That includes FDOT, it includes the three cities
of -- in Collier County. You know, it includes Marco and City of
Naples and, of course, Everglades.
And the second line -- the second line, which is that yellowish
line, is county maintained roadways, and that's -- you know, it drops
down to a lower number. And the green are crashes that occurred at
signalized intersections. And we are about five a year, it seems like.
Five too many, but it is -- you know, that's roughly what we got. I
mean, our vision is zero fatalities on our roadway system.
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You know, some of these intersections carry a lot of volume,
and I just wanted to put some numbers. Like the intersection we're
talking about today, Immokalee and Logan, you know, this is five
years of crash data on Immokalee and Logan. We had 123 crashes
that occurred at that intersection. Prior to the fatal crash on
September 5th, we had no fatalities in the past 10 years at this
intersection. I just want to make sure that I mention that.
But if you look at the upper left side of the -- most of the
crashes, which is very typical for a signalized intersection, usually
rear-end crashes. You know, most of the time, it's a rear-end crash.
Some right angle, people running the yellow or turning in front of
each other. But, you know, that's very typical crash data.
I was getting to the volume. You know, an intersection like
Logan and Immokalee carries roughly 60,000 vehicles per day. You
know, over a year, we carry over 20 million vehicles a year. So, you
know, the potential for a crash is -- and a driver making a mistake is
great, and it's going to happen. So I just wanted to make sure we --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Anthony, what is the difference in the
blue and the yellow?
MR. KHAWAJA: Oh, sorry. The blue -- the blue is
property-damage-only crashes, and the yellow is crashes that caused
an injury.
When you guys asked us to come back -- I know Commissioner
McDaniel asked about the yellow and red at specifically that
intersection, so I'm going to make sure I cover that. Commissioner
Saunders, you asked us to -- how do we maintain the signals and
make sure they are run properly, so I'm going to make sure to take a
little bit of time to cover that and what can be done to hopefully
prevent future crashes like that.
I always like to remind everybody that, hey, our focus is safety
and capacity. Safety is our first priority.
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You know regarding the yellow and all-red clearances that we
have at that approach, we have 4.8 seconds of yellow, which is
enough time to have -- we give 1.4 seconds for a driver to recognize
that the light is changing, and then enough time for them to stop
before they get to the stop bar, and that's the 4.8 seconds, and if they
continued through, we designed for that, and we'll give them another
2.2 seconds to go through the intersection.
Could somebody come after that time and still run a red light,
absolutely. You know, we only can do so much with engineering,
and we count on the driver to do their part.
Your causes of crash, we usually try to break them down into
four different categories. Of course the driver. Are they driving
safely? Are the following the rules of the roads? Are they driving
at proper speed? Are they wearing their seatbelt in case of an
accident, so it reduces the injury? Are they impaired or dis-- or
distracted. I tell you, distracted drivers lately are the cause of a lot
of crashes within the county.
So the other part is the vehicle. Is the vehicle safe? Brakes are
good? Windshield is good, clean, you can see? Driving appropriate
speed? Is it maintained properly? So all these things on driver's
side -- on the vehicle side is -- also, some of them are the driver
responsibility to make sure that the vehicle is in good working
condition.
Our part is the roadway. This is where engineering and to make
sure the roadway's designed properly, the speed limit is posted
appropriately, and it meets the needs. The signs are in the
appropriate space and clean and erected correctly. We have
appropriate sight distance. Our signal timing is timed correctly and
to accommodate the task flows in the area.
It's very important that we spend a lot of time on signal timing.
I mean, from what the minimum green should be to what the yellow
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should be to what the red should be, how much we allocate time to
each movement.
On Immokalee Road, we just completed a retiming program that
we actually hired a consultant to retime Immokalee Road. And, you
know, it's at the end. So these consultants, they review our yellows
and reds, they review the appropriate time, green time. And they
reset the offset so the signals can work better together. And, of
course, they do a lot of counts to make sure we are accommodating
the actual demand at the intersections.
You know, I look at our roadways. You know, you
Commissioners spent over $2 billion since 2016 on roadway work
and roadway design -- since 2006, you know, so we designed some of
the best roads around in the country.
When I came to this county in 2010, I said these intersections
and these roadways are a traffic engineer dream. You know,
it's -- they're flat, they are designed nicely. Turn lane at every
signalized intersection. No hails, no snow, you know. So it
is -- but, of course, we have weather as well and, you know,
we -- you know, like some weather event or things that could happen.
You know, a truck drops a piece of metal in the roadway, and
somebody might try to avoid it and maybe end up with a crash. So
there's some outside environmental and weather conditions that needs
to be addressed.
To answer Commissioner Saunders' question, you know, to talk
a little bit about how do we maintain and make sure these signals are
timed and running properly. I think it takes all of us. Everybody
involved that uses the roadways is -- we need their help. Of course,
the main item is our traffic management center. That's the key
players. They're the ones who set the timing. They make sure the
timing is appropriate for each movement, and they monitor the
intersections.
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Then we have our traffic signal technicians. These are highly
trained specialized people that manage and monitor the traffic signals
and are allowed to work in the cabinet.
It takes us about two years to get a traffic signal technician to be
able to touch the controller and make timing changes. So we don't
take these things lightly. Everything that's in that cabinet has to be
touched by appropriate people and certified to do the work. So it
is -- and then we work closely with the Collier County Sheriff's
Office, if there's a problem out there and if they see anything that's
not working properly, to notify us, and our citizens.
I tell you, you know, like, our citizens are maybe our best people
to call us. You know, they drive these intersections every day for
years, and they know when something is wrong or not timed right or
the detection for the left turn is not working right, and they call us,
and we put our phone numbers on the cabinet so that people can
reach us. So it takes all of us to make sure the signals are timed
right.
How we run them, actually, we have -- Collier County, we have
a fiberoptic network. It's about 350 miles of fiber that we manage
and that we connect every traffic signal back to the Traffic
Management Center. And we talk to each one all the time, and we're
monitoring its activities. That's how we make sure the timing in
there is appropriate.
We have 233 signals. We have 207 flashers that we manage.
We also have over 5,000 streetlights and 24,000 signs that we take
care of.
What does the Traffic Manage Center does? We have six
employees in the Traffic Management Center. They're continuously
managing the databases. So, like, if somebody makes a
change -- like, sometimes we have our on-call people go to the
intersection, and they cannot fix the problem right away, so they
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could do some minor adjustments to the databases, for example, force
a phase to come on every time if the detection is broken or not
working.
So if they make that change in the controller, the controller
reports back to the TMC. So in the morning when we come in, we
notice that the change was made to the database, and we compare the
databases to make sure they are working, they have appropriate data.
Then we all check the alarms. You know, the TMC checks the
alarms in case any piece of equipment has failed. There is a
threshold for these equipments, and if they fail, we got notified so we
can check them, and we send our technicians out to go repair them.
Then we monitor the signals throughout the day. So throughout
the day, if there's any things that's happening, we keep them -- an eye
on the signals. Preemption that gets stuck, a push button that gets
stuck, we get out there and try to get it fixed.
We actively respond to incidents where we can help. You
know, like, not every crash that we sometimes -- we can help with,
but we try to -- for example, when I-75 was closed and was having a
lot of delays and people were jumping off to Pine Ridge, we modified
a lot of our signal timing. I don't know if people noticed this, but we
spend a lot of time into, like, increasing the left turns so we can flush
the area where people are coming off and then push them to the next
intersection, retime the next intersection and get them back into I-75.
We do all this, these guys in the TMC do all this. Of course, it
doesn't make it perfect, you know. We can never accommodate the
traffic that comes off of I-75, but we make it better. We try to help
and make it run better.
At every signalized intersection, we have an
interrupted -- uninterrupted power supply, UPSs, and these are -- in
case FPL loses power, they keep the signal running, and they notify
the TMC, "Hey, I have no power from FPL. I'm running on
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batteries. You know, get me a generator." So these things can run
for about three to four hours, so we usually wait half hour, an hour to
make sure that FPL is not -- it's not a quick break [sic]. If it is, we
get generators out there, and we get the -- we give the signals. Most
people don't even know that we lost power, you know.
And they check the pan, tilt, and zoom cameras. We have a
pan, tilt, and zoom camera at our signalized intersections, and that's
so when somebody calls us and says, "Hey, the left turn is not coming
on," we can actually see, confirm, take a look at the data, and be able
to fix it and make sure it works better, so...
Now, things that break, we give them to the traffic signal
technicians. We have seven traffic signal technicians that we
manage. The TMC gives them tasks that they need to do on a daily
basis, but we also give them intersection and things
that -- modification that we need to add.
So I don't know if you guys noticed, we get rid of a lot of the
five section heads at signalized intersections, and we are replacing
them with four section heads, you know, the flashing yellow versus
the green ball. So a lot of these are being done. We're doing those
in-house. We have a program to hopefully get rid of all the five
sections someday. But, you know, it's an ongoing program.
They do ground PM. So at -- we visit every signalized
intersection twice a year, and that's, you know, go check the push
buttons, check the heads, make sure no signal outages, none of the
LEDs is burned out, vacuum the cabinet, make sure it's clean, make
sure it's appropriately working.
And once a year -- this is to your question, Commissioner. The
mono-function monitoring unit, the MMU, a lot of people refer to it
as the watchdog. This is the unit that prevents an intersection from,
you know, displaying two conflicting greens or a conflicting green
with a conflicting yellow. That just would not allow it to happen.
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And if even it happened due to a sure -- due to a break, the signal
would go on flash, a conflict flash which would flash this intersection
all red till we get out there and figure out what the problem is and fix
it.
But we check these -- we check them once a year, and we take
them into the office, and we test them to make sure they're still in
good working conditions, and we deploy them again to different
intersections. So we make sure these are --
And then we have a program for aerial PMs, and we are trying
to do -- like, every five years, check the heads, replace what needs to
be replaced, modify the heads, and so --
Working with the Collier County Sheriff, actually we went and
met with them, and they wanted to -- they wanted some help with
trying to enforce red light running, and they asked for the blue lights.
I don't know, some of you, I'm sure, are familiar with that blue light.
In Collier County right now, we don't have the blue light at any of
our intersections, but it's something we're looking at adding. We're
meeting with the Collier County Sheriff. We're creating a
committee to see where are most effective and most appropriate.
You know, you have to have a place where the officer can wait
in advance, you know, downstream from the signal and can still see
the heads. So we're looking at these intersections to determine
where that would be. It's going to cost us about 3,000 per
installation, so we'll work on that list and go through it.
We're going to also improve visibility. We've been doing this,
and -- you know, like, we have a list of intersections where we are
upgrading the backplates to make them a little more visible so it's
easier to see the heads, especially at night, as you can see on the slide
on the right. It allows the driver to see them and be able to know if
the signal, even -- you know, what's nice about these things is in the
dark, if there is no power and we lost power, people would -- it's a lot
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easier to know that this is a signalized intersection and, therefore,
treat it as a multiway stop versus not knowing till you get on top of it.
So it's very helpful for safety.
We're going to work through the Congestion Management
Committee with the MPO, FDOT. You know, there's a lot of AI
stuff coming in, and that improves safety, and we're going to look at
some options out there to see what can be done.
And then we're going to continue working with Collier County
Sheriff and hopefully do better and keep improving, you know, to
hopefully reach vision zero, no fatalities on our network.
At every signalized intersection we have our phone number, and
that's in case you see something that doesn't look right, it's not
running properly. This number is our Traffic Management Center.
We are open from 6:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. We try to cover both peak
hours, a.m. peak and p.m. peak. And we like to hear from you if
something is not working right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And who should they ask
for?
MR. KHAWAJA: Harris.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Harris Demond?
MR. KHAWAJA: That's right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Harris.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Tony, the slide that caught
my attention the most was the bar chart that showed that even though
we're sitting here having a lot of discussions about intersections and
red light cameras at intersections, if you go back to that one slide that
shows that most of the accidents are at non-signalized intersections.
So we've had some, like you said, extremely tragic things.
Yeah, that chart. So the yellow -- or correct me if I'm wrong -- those
are non-signaled intersection or roadways or what have you that have
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had accidents, not -- not necessarily fatalities, but have had -- or is it?
You've got here fatalities at signaled intersections.
Maybe just decipher this for me again, because my initial
takeaway was we're really focused on the short green, which we
should be, because we've had some real fatal things, but the yellow
is -- are areas that are signaled? Not signaled? What -- right?
MR. KHAWAJA: Yes. Sorry, Commissioner.
So this is all fatalities. This is fatalities within the county. We
are around 40-some fatalities per year in our county. A lot of them
are -- the longest bar is the -- that includes everybody, includes the
city and includes for FDOT and includes mainly I-75, yes. It
includes I-75.
Once you remove the I-75 and you only look at
county-maintained roadways, these are still fatalities that occurred on
the county highway system, is the second bar. And the green is at
signalized intersection, and that's both FDOT signalized intersection
and county signalized intersection. So this is all the signals within
Collier County. So a lot of them on U.S. 41, for example, or Davis,
or -- you know, like, they are distributed. There's five a year almost
distributed across the county.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We just need to realize that,
you know, you could put a red light camera at every single
intersection, which would only represent the green bar, and we still
have a big chunk of areas are either dangerous or just, you know,
drivers not paying attention.
I know -- I liked your list that was -- it's inclusive. It's not just,
hey, you know, the lights aren't set correctly. I mean, if a driver
drives through a red light or is a DUI driver, I mean, you know,
there's things that I know the Sheriff does to try to prevent that or
catch those people, but it's going to happen. And you know, like you
said, every fatality's a tragedy. But it's more than just the
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intersections is what this slide showed me. It's obviously a much
bigger area where we have, you know, fatalities and accidents.
Okay, I got it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just wanted to shed a light on that little blue light system you're
discussing. You know, from what I understand and from -- I
know -- I believe the City of Naples has some of them --
MR. KHAWAJA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- installed. And I think what it
does -- for the citizens to understand, that's basically when you have a
law enforcement officer observing that intersection to do traffic
enforcement, it gives them an extra tool when it comes to testimony
in court to enforce the Uniform Traffic Citation, that they can
coincide the blue light with the red signal so they don't have to be
physically looking at the red light. They know it's lit up, and they
work in conjunction with each other. So it's more of a testimonial
thing for his eyewitness of the actual violation. So just to clarify
how that works for the public, that --
MR. KHAWAJA: Yes, Commissioner. You're absolutely
correct, that's the purpose of this.
Right now, for example, if Collier County Sheriff wants to
enforce, they almost need two vehicles. They need one upstream
and one downstream. The one upstream observes the vehicle
running the red light, and the vehicle downstream stops them,
because otherwise he would be running a red light as well going after
that vehicle. You know so -- but it takes two officers.
In the other case, the vehicle can be waiting downstream, can be
watching the blue light. If the blue light is on, that means that red is
on. And if he observes a vehicle that crossed the stop bar or entered
the intersection, they can pursue it.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I think there's a fellow
hiding in the back of the room that I'd like to hear from, our favorite
sheriff. He was sitting in the back. Nobody actually saw him.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I could see him thinking back there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He was one of the -- I think
you maybe were avoiding coming up. But there was a big E at the
beginning of this that talked about enforcement.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He got the memo on the suit
color today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I wore blue today.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good morning, Chairman, members of
the Board.
I was not hiding in the back. I was just waiting my turn to
provide some information to you.
I'm going to try not to go over or duplicate what our
Transportation Management Services already gave. They gave a lot
of great information.
If you look at what goes into what constitutes or causes an
accident, there are a lot of different things that can go into that.
Obviously, as a community, we were all impacted with the fatal crash
several weeks ago. It involved entering an intersection on a red
light, obviously. It was a commercially rated vehicle. So FHP is
investigating that crash. So we don't yet know what the cause for the
vehicle going into the intersection was.
Yesterday morning we had another one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On 75.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Minor injuries, but with a commercial
vehicle entering an intersection on a red signal, so -- with a
commercial vehicle.
And, you know, while a red light violation may be a charge,
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there are a lot of things that go back into the cause of that. A lot of
them were mentioned. But, you know, if you look at impatient, in a
hurry, aggressive driving, distracted driving -- you know,
communities throughout Florida and the United States are facing the
same kinds of challenges we are on the roadways, but what I think we
have is great support from the community in moving forward with
plans, support from you as the Board, and great partners with county
transportation and management.
So we looked at a couple of different things. One, we've had a
really comprehensive education, informational, and enforcement
effort over the years. And we've been building on that.
Since the tragic crash we had, though, we started to meet with
the local moms group. We met with individual residents, and even
community groups, all who wanted to talk with us about traffic safety
for the future. A lot of good ideas came out of that, a lot of
information that we were able to provide about what we're doing,
what we want to do in the future.
And I think one of the things that we're all facing because
of -- more and more people are finding our community, and more are
coming, we want to revitalize and create a new community-based
traffic safety program. We've had individual programs before, a lot
of them. I'll highlight a couple of those for you. But we need
everybody to be involved.
And, you know, we -- earlier mentioned was the four Es, and
yes, the emergency response absolutely. So -- but we say there are
four Es, and it is the engineering, the education, the enforcement, but
what's got to come next is engagement, and that's participation from
our drivers, from the community. So I'll talk a little bit about that,
because we want to release that later this month.
So, you know, some of the background on what we've been
doing, the types of observations that we're making and enforcing is
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distracted driving, speed in excess of the limit, aggressive driving,
school bus violations, and school zone violations.
We just finished our opening of school, what, a month or two
ago, and we had put in place special operations for all of those. And
we do that with our Traffic Enforcement Bureau. They are a
specialized group of professional traffic people who look at complex
investigations and do specialized enforcement, but we've also grown
that over the years by including all deputies in Collier County and the
responsibility that we all have with regard to traffic safety.
Red light running certainly we have dealt with in the past.
Commercial vehicles we have dealt with in the past, and we've
actually had trained -- specially trained commercial vehicle
inspectors.
So in the past and up until today, we have focused on obviously
including social media, making sure information gets out to the
public, specialized enforcement efforts. We call them flex
operations, and they can include the things I just mentioned. We've
done aggressive driving. We've done distracted driving. We've
done public service announcements in the past.
If you remember, years ago we had partnered with AAA, and we
did a "no texting and driving" effort where we had a racecar driver,
Michael Censi (phonetic), come down, bring his car, and PSAs, did a
lot of work with our kids during that time.
We've actually put deputies on school buses and had pursuit
vehicles, and if a vehicle passed the bus when stopped, they would
radio to them.
We have a traffic safety podcast. We created 530-Zoom. It's a
traffic hotline, and we actually did that about a dozen years ago. But
one of the things that we found out when meeting with members of
the community is they were unaware that a lot of these things had
been put in place and that were available to them.
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So you'll hear in a minute we're going to be working more with
them to try and get that information out.
We have the teen driver challenge. We have six
speed-enforcement trailers. We have 13 message boards. A lot of
that was discussed by our meetings with the public to look at do we
need some more of those.
So as we look at what we're doing, we've also tried to find more
efficient ways for not only enforcement but administration. And,
you know, one of the things that we have put in place over the last
couple of years are civilian traffic investigators.
So we have added them to the STEB Bureau, and what that does
is for the minor accidents, parking lot accidents, they're able to take
those that freeze up our law enforcement officers to stay longer out in
the street with operations and citations.
But probably, you know, the most important things that we do is
we do a daily, weekly, and monthly unified policing meeting
specifically addressing traffic and crime. So when we look at this,
we have six patrol districts, as you probably remember. Each one of
those lieutenants has to give a district commander a report to us on
where their accidents are and what they are doing to reduce those.
We use a lot of analytics to apportion our resources for the time of
day, day of week, type of violation, and we do that throughout the
years so that we're not wasting time and effort.
We've done a lot of other programs. And a couple of things
that we have -- some of these things we've done before, but since this
event, meeting with our members of the community, I've done a letter
to FHP, and I've requested additional staffing to assist us in special
operations both with commercial vehicles and with general
operations.
I have sent a letter to FHP to really put a hold on several spots to
train commercial vehicle investigators for our deputies.
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Unfortunately, they do not have one scheduled for the remainder of
this year. We actually found one in Georgia that we may be able to
send to. But they will be sending us information on that, and we'll
get at least two to four people in those. We asked for a minimum of
two.
We have met and now want to formalize a regular meeting with
the county transportation. We contacted state FDOT. We currently
have a grant to work overtime deputies. It was originally intended
for I-75.
We asked them whether we could expand the use of those
dollars -- it's $125,000 -- onto the local road, particularly those
adjacent to the highway, and they confirmed that we cannot only use
it for adjacent to the interstate, but if we have problematic areas
throughout the county, as long as we can identify the problem, we'll
be able to use some of those dollars to apply additional resources.
So we'll be able to get many more deputies out there and utilize the
grant that we've got.
I mentioned we met with the local moms group. We have some
great ideas from them. We met with our attorney, who's based in
Tallahassee, last Friday, and we took some of the ideas and
suggestions we got from the moms group. One of them was can we
increase penalties for red light running and a couple of other ideas
that they had. So we have made that request of them. They're
doing research on that right now.
We are finishing up development of this new community-based
traffic safety program. We will launch that in about two weeks.
We're trying to figure when is the most appropriate time that we can
get the residents. We don't want to wait till the first of the year. We
want to get it before the end of this year, so probably sometime in
October.
We immediately increased enforcement over the last 10 days,
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did 38 red light operations in addition to what we normally do, and
that resulted in 269 citations for red light running.
Some of the ideas and recommendations that came from the
community and our members as well, one was -- and these are for
consideration. We're going to provide this directly to
Transportation. One was installation of flashing lights in advance of
an intersection, particularly one that is a high-hazard location so that
you know a signalized intersection is coming up. They have those
throughout the state in different areas and locations that I've seen.
Transportation talked about the backplates already.
A request for more radar trailers and message boards were
made. We're already looking into that. More community outreach
and more social media. That's one of the opportunities for
partnership with the community and particularly our local moms
group who has committed to help us get more information out to the
general public, so we thank them for that.
You already looked at review of signal timing. The possibility
of considering red light cameras. The possibility of hiring more
deputies. We're seeking more grants for traffic enforcement.
So the bottom line pretty much is we have a good program out
there. We do have to look more towards the future. I think when
we were here talking about budget, I mentioned that we are updating
our former study on population projections, as you are, so that we can
look at the future and decide what it is that we are going to need in
the future, how we can use technology better in any or all of these
areas.
But the bottom line is, we need to engage individuals, our
residents and the drivers that come into this community, because in
the discussions we've been having, you know, we can reach out. We
can make a lot of contact with our own residents, but we have a lot of
people that come in to deliver and leave. And some way we need to
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message them so that they know what is expected when they come in
the county.
One of the ideas we already have for that is looking at all the
major food stores, box stores, major delivery companies and actually
doing prevention information directly to all of them on reminding
them of what the laws are, what we're enforcing, and that you are
welcome to come into a drive-safe community as long as you drive
safe; otherwise, we're going to cite you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, thank you, Chairman.
Sheriff, a couple things I just wanted to say. You know, it goes
without saying, thanks for all that you-all do.
There's a lot of things citizens say at these podiums that I agree
with and that I disagree with at times. We all do. But one of the
things that I hear at this podium that really does infuriate me because
it is so untrue is when people come here going -- and say, I never see
a cop anywhere in Collier County. That is so untrue, and it's so
disrespectful because of how much we've put -- how much funding
we've put into the Sheriff's Office, how visible you-all are out there.
And, you know, citizens need to realize you-all aren't just the
traffic and speeding cops. Sheriffs do a little bit more than just write
tickets and look for people going through red lights. You have
a -- one of the reasons why we're the safest county isn't because we
have the least amount of red light runners. It's all the other things
that you-all do.
And so, you know, I just wanted to remind folks it really, really
bothers me when I hear that at the podium, and I'm sure it bothers
you as well.
When I ask for -- and I have asked for reports from your staff
about an area of concern, I'm always impressed by how much activity
has happened in that area. You know, when I hear from a citizen,
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"There's no cops anywhere. Everybody's speeding down my road,"
and then I get a report from, you know, your office that shows, wow,
we wrote 212 tickets in that area, and we've had, you know, a sheriff
on duty patrolling that area from this time to -- so detailed, and it's
not made up to cover yourselves. No, it's actual police work. So,
you know, we have to take some of that stuff with a grain of salt. It
doesn't mean we can't do better in certain areas.
One of the things I'll say -- and I've had this conversation with
you, but especially with Colonel Bloom, you know, your
undersheriff, making sure that we're focusing sheriffs in concentrated
areas at all times. And I know this is something that frustrates you
once in a while, because when I've brought it to the attention of, you
know, your leadership and I say, "You know, I'm going back to
Marco Island, and I just passed Walmart on U.S. 41, and there were
three sheriffs between Walmart and the base of the Marco bridge
writing speeding tickets for people that were 100 yards away, or
whatever the distance is, from the Marco line or catching people
coming over the Marco bridge, and as soon as they leave the Marco
line, now all of a sudden Collier County has" -- and it's few and far
between.
Like, when I've seen it, I've always reported it saying, "Wow, if
it's the best use of three or two sheriffs, I don't think Sheriff Rambosk
would think so." And then when I pass it to Colonel Bloom, he's
like, "No, we didn't need three cops within 100 yards of each other
writing speeding tickets for five hours," and we've caught some of
that.
But on the flip side, I don't think anybody can make the case that
you don't have, you know, your sheriffs concentrated in key areas.
This commission has -- has funded you to your requested levels
to the max, you know, I would say, but you've brought up some other
things: Radar trailers, improved technology, manpower. So if
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those are things that you obviously feel you need to add to your
arsenal, by all means, all five of us here, I don't think, would bat an
eyelash. I mean, we want to put -- we can't prevent everything, but
if there's some things you're learning from your contacts in
Tallahassee or other counties, I know that you won't be shy about,
you know, coming here, and we want to make sure we sort of fill
those gaps. Use what we have concentrated in the key areas, and I
know, you know, you do a great job moving that -- moving your team
around but also bringing us anything.
I really liked hearing you say that you reached out to the Florida
Highway Patrol. If anything, that's who I see sometimes a little less.
But, you know, I don't know all their responsibilities, so I'm sure
they're where they need to be. But I have noticed that a bit. So I
think your reminder to them that, hey, we need your help. We've
had some fatalities. You know, are you really where you-all need to
be, and can you help us? Is something -- I was really glad to hear
you say that. But, you know, we're here to hear from you on any
additional needs that you might discover would be helpful to making
us more safe.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: And as you might remember, I talked a
little bit about that during the budget update. All law enforcement
throughout Florida and most of the United States is having a tough
time recruiting and retaining. I will tell you that I have received a lot
of questions from the community about retention and ensuring that
we remain competitive so that we keep our great deputies, which I
completely agree with. And from information I'm getting now, it
looks like I will be coming back to you to look at what we need to
remain competitive with our surrounding agencies.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I brought this issue forward
for a couple of reasons. The first was to reassure the public that we
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are doing everything we can to keep our intersections safe. And, of
course, we had a tragic accident that sort of precipitated the
discussion, and I'm very pleased with what our staff has presented in
terms of what we do in a proactive way to keep our intersections safe,
but I also brought this forward to see what kind of things we can do
to make things even safer.
And so I'm going to ask staff a couple questions, and I'm going
to ask the Sheriff a couple questions, and I'll start with staff. You
mentioned the blue lights and the $3,000 it costs per intersection.
My question to you, is how many intersections in your mind should
we put those blue lights on? Because I'm going to multiple that
times 3,000 and make sure you have the money to put those up.
MR. KHAWAJA: We're having a committee with the Sheriff,
and we're going to look at individual intersections. We think -- to
look at top 20 for now. And this is per approach, Commissioner, so
you need to multiple that by four first and then 20.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So instead of
$60,000, it would be $80,000. And so at some point during this
discussion, I'm going to make a motion that we appropriate those
dollars for those blue light cameras -- or those blue lights so that the
Sheriff can be more effective in enforcing red light runners.
I was very pleased with the education issue that you mentioned.
That's great for our high school kids and for the general public that
generally complies with the law. But we're dealing with people that
don't care. And we see it every day. Crystal Kinzel, I think, was
the witness of an accident, someone running through a red light just a
few days ago smashing into a vehicle. Fortunately, there were no
injuries.
But we see it every day. People pass us. We'll start to stop at
an intersection, and somebody zooms past us to go through a red
light. Those people cannot be educated. The only way they can be
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educated, the only way they'll stop is if they start getting tickets, and
very expensive tickets. So I want to make sure we get those blue
lights up.
There was some discussion about more resources for you. And
so I would like you to come back and perhaps give us a report. I
know you mentioned the issue of more money for salaries, and we
certainly will support that. But do you need more staff? Can we
get more deputies out there to keep our roadways moving and keep
our roadways safe? So I'd like you to come back with us in the next
several weeks or so and let us know what you really need, because I
can assure you that you'll get the resources to do that.
The other issue that has been raised -- and I don't necessarily
support red light cameras, and I know that this community had red
light cameras starting in 2010, I believe. They did it for four years.
It was a very poorly conceived project on the part of the County
Commission back in those days. I can say none of us were here
then.
And -- but there were a lot of lessons learned from that. And I
would -- at some point I think I'm going to ask this board to turn the
issue of red light cameras over to our Productivity Committee just to
do an evaluation of, are they effective? Are they cost effective?
What are other communities doing? Should it be something that we
should consider?
And, again, I'm not suggesting that we go to red light cameras,
but I think we owe it to the public to evaluate that and make a
decision.
So, Mr. Chairman, at some point I've got three points I want to
make. I want that $80,000 for the blue lights, I want the Sheriff to
come back in a few weeks with -- or maybe take a little bit longer,
but whatever time you need. Let us know what you need to make
our roadways more safe. And then, Mr. Chairman, I would like to
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have a committee like the Productivity Committee evaluate the
efficacy of red light cameras and whether we should even consider
that.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: And could I jump in one second? If
we're going to do that committee, certainly the county clerk's staff
should be involved in that. There are some key people. I would ask
that we include all the right people to make that information available
to you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Is that going to be 240,000?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Eighty.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Top 20 times four --
MR. KHAWAJA: Yeah, I think there's --
CHAIRMAN HALL: -- times 3,000.
MR. KHAWAJA: There's a bust in the math. Three times
four is 12 times 20 is 240-. But I don't know if all the approaches
are going to need it. You know, I don't know if all the approaches
are going to need it, but I think you're more like around the 150-,
200,000.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'd just say I think -- I think
we all like the concept, but I'd like to see the analysis, not just let's
throw up a blue light at every signal intersection and call it a day.
MR. KHAWAJA: Right. We want -- right.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I wasn't -- I was joking about you hiding in the back,
by the way. I just saw you back there, and I didn't want you --
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I know.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Words matter.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I didn't want you to get away.
When you -- I have a question. When you -- when you
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deployed the extra units for intersection control, do you have data
from what you -- what our sheriffs typically write in regard -- you
said you got -- out of that maneuver you got 269 tickets.
Do you have data on what we do every day?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: We do. You know, our analytics are
used more importantly for where we assign. So, like, we were just
discussing about the blue lights, what locations should we be more
in? We look at accident occurrences. We look at community
requests. If a lot of our residents are seeing a particular problem,
we'll make a special operation for that. So we use a lot of that data
to make sure we're placing people at the best time possible to identify
violations and cite.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And thank you for that. I'd
like to see what we do on a regular basis in comparison to what
transpired with a special enforcement effort just to see what we do on
a regular basis.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Oh, yeah. And we have special
operations all the time. We can give you a location, a date and a
time when we do it, and what was -- what the enforcement actions
were.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd like to see that. It would
help me. And I have to say, I'm very impressed by your efforts.
Your agency has worked cooperatively with my office regularly in
enforcement activities.
And one of the things that I want to say, as we're all talking to
the community, when folks see an issue, look at the time when you're
witnessing something transpiring. As a general rule, speeding
occurs at certain times of the day. And your department has really
worked very effectively in assistance there.
It brings up the next discussion, and that's about staffing,
technology that's available to better enhance the theoretic- -- and I
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say theoretical because we don't know for sure yet because the
population is increasing. We all know that. To what extent we
don't know just yet. But technology enhancements that can be
brought in to assist with the theoretical lack of staffing.
You know, Commissioner LoCastro said we all hear, "Well, I
never see a sheriff." Well, that's -- that's an extremity. And so we
want to hear from you.
And I really support Commissioner Saunders' idea or suggestion
there with regard to study on the red light cameras. If you would
just give a brief -- because the previous effort was very contentious
and very arduous. If you would, just give a brief discussion on how
that all functions from a staffing standpoint. Because if I recall,
there was multiple parts of staff that were involved, and then I have a
couple more questions.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes. So the original red light camera
system that was put in place in Collier County was one of only
several in the state. And part of the implementation of that was a
change in legislation which had just taken place, so people were
looking to enable that in their communities. It raised questions
about -- I had one when I was in Tallahassee talking about it and said,
well, I don't want anybody -- I don't want anybody to see and take a
picture of the passenger in my car.
And, of course, I'm not a wise guy, but I had to ask. I said,
"Well, who's in your car that you don't want a picture taken of?"
So he didn't like it very much. Aside from that, there were
legitimate legal questions. Your attorney, our attorney, looked into
all of those different questions, rights and expectation of privacy in
vehicles.
The owner was getting the citation. The driver may not be
because you loaned out your car to somebody. And so a lot of those
things have been dealt with over time.
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We didn't -- it was seen as a moneymaking operation at that
time. And the cost of our violation was only as high as the actual
operating cost to do the program. So we were not -- the county or
the Sheriff's Office was not making money out of that.
The other thing is procedurally the red light camera would take a
picture, the following morning a certified law enforcement deputy
would review the camera, would make sure that the violation had
occurred, that they went through the light, and they were not behind
the stop line when the red light turned, so it was an actual violation,
and then we would work together to send out a violation notice.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And if I recall, the fine is set
by the State, and then we have -- the county has a fixed amount of
money out of that amount of -- we can't -- we can't elevate the
expense associated with that and get more money back here.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Well, you're -- that's absolutely true for
traffic -- uniform traffic citations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: When we did it as a county, the county
was -- you were able to establish that rate, how much would be
charged.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: And where it would go.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I certainly would like
to have it investigated further just from a -- just from a staffing
standpoint. Because if I recall, it may engage our staff to be
involved in this process as well, and I just want to -- I want to explore
it. I mean, it's an asset that's out there. The technology's
significantly greater so that we don't end up with somebody's
passenger's picture. We -- and we -- is the enforceability capable
just on the tag itself? Can -- even if you lent your car to somebody,
too bad; you're going to get the ticket.
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SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes, that's the way it was set up. It's
enforceable by the tag, and that was one of the questions. Again,
you're responsible for your own car.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I don't care who's driving it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: You know, don't lend it to this person
if they want to blow the red light all the time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's correct.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: So, yeah, I will tell you
this -- and -- within six months after installation of the cameras, there
was a significant visible increase at intersections of people stopping.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I've seen that, you know, and
I'm not -- again, I'm not an advocate of the cameras, but I -- you
know, I've been in Tallahassee where they are. I've been in
Washington, D.C., where they are. I've been riding with taxi drivers
who are some of the most aggressive drivers on the planet, and if that
light -- if you're riding with a taxi driver or an Uber driver and that
light's even thinking about changing, they all stop. They all stop at
the intersection. There's nobody blowing through the intersection
even on a yellow. They stop.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Right. And as the law requires today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As -- what you're supposed to
do voluntarily to follow the law.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Exactly, exactly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My next question is,
we -- you and I were quite successful well before I became a
commish to establish the commercial motor vehicular units, and then
I think maybe attrition -- I think Lieutenant Minch was one of the
officers that I worked very closely with back in those days.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yep.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How many -- do we have any
of those units available?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: We do. We have two certified
officers right now, commercial vehicle officers, and I've made a
request for a minimum of two more to be trained.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: And part of the dilemma -- we had
made a request earlier this year, but we were only able to get one
person in the class. So it's a limited training program. Limited
spots. But we've asked formally for more spots in that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And in that light, I think, if
I'm not mistaken, Collier County has a local ordinance with regard to
commercial motor vehicular traffic when it's moving, that they are
supposed to stay in the right lane for and until they're about to make a
left turn. Do you recall how long that distance is?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I don't recall how long the distance is.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And so I'd like to
know if somebody can find out what that -- what that actual distance
requisite is for them to allow them to legally move out of the right
lane and over to be able to make a safe left turn.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: And, you know, if you remember, we
did a lot of outreach to trucking sandpits and information to owners
of trucking companies, actually visited the sand pits.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I remember.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Actually did inspections on the way
out, provided information in all -- in multiple languages to say,
"Here. Here's how you drive safely, or we are enforcing."
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and that's going to be
my next thought process was I'll volunteer to assist with the mining
industry and the farming industry, because those are -- those are both
industries that I have a lot of -- I have a lot of -- I transact a lot of
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business with. So as we're moving these efforts forward on the other
E, which is education, and that's informing these drivers of the local
ordinance and what they're supposed to do while they're traversing
our roads.
I know we had enormous success about prohibition on the
utilization of the Jake Brakes just for quality-of-life purposes.
Commissioner Saunders, you know, the Quiet Florida group, and
those Jake Brakes are an engine slower-downer of the vehicle, and by
asking them to stay off those Jake Brakes, it really reduced the noise
and enhanced the quality of life of our residents along the way.
So I'll work with you to get that education out to the -- because I
think in Collier County, we really only have two active mining
operations right now, maybe three. But I'll work with you in order
to get that information out and start that education process with those
industries, as well as the farming industry. We have an enormous
amount of commercial motor vehicles coming back and forth from
the east transporting produce at the same time. So I'll work with you
to get that information out.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's all, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Thank you, Sheriff. Very informative presentation. It's some
good information in there, and I think it's so important that the public
does see a lot of these numbers and what the efforts are and how
many programs that actually are implemented through the Sheriff's
Office, because a lot of people are not familiar with a lot of these
things. I had the luxury of being part of it at one point and knowing
some of these things.
I am -- I'm pro to the blue light project if we can figure out and
actually have a committee come to us, and you guys all work together
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and find out the intersections that this would most be feasible to use
this on.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because I don't think every
intersection it needs to be on, but it definitely is -- and what I
mentioned before, it's a good tool, because, you know, the few
accidents that I've been involved, you know, and worked in the past
that have used commercial vehicles or usually the commercial
vehicles are at fault for running these red lights, people have to
understand these guys operate under a CDL license, and enforcement
with the actual Uniform Traffic Citation puts points against their
CDL, and then they're -- they're jeopardizing their livelihood. You
know, when you can actually write somebody a Uniform Traffic
Citation in lieu of a civil fine through, like, a red-light-runner camera,
which doesn't apply any point or anything against their driver's
license, and that's a deterrent. That's a deterrent, because when they
get one or two, they realize that they're jeopardizing their career,
they're jeopardizing their welfare, it starts to correct behavior, and
that's important.
And we have those tools for deputies and our men and women
out there that do such a great job here in Collier County, to have
these tools to start this enforcement, to get -- what do you call -- like,
educating but also positive reinforcement through citations, it has a
tendency to have a greater effect than just somebody getting a $120
civil citation. They know they're just going to pay it. Nothing's
going to be in jeopardy of their future, their career, or anything like
that.
That being said, you may have mentioned it already. You
mentioned something about reaching to the vendors, and
Commissioner McDaniel's talking about the sandpits and things like
that. I'll just say from my recollection, two interviews after some
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very horrific accidents where there was a death involved with two
dump trucks in the past, and find out in the debrief in interviewing
these drivers that a lot of them are paid by the load, not by the hour.
And I don't know if we can include some of these developers,
people that are hauling fill, you know, to and from construction sites.
I know we can't, you know, force people to alter their behavior of
how they pay their employees, but maybe bring some light to it that
at times this does create a situation where these guys push the limit.
You know, when they're thinking I get one or two more loads if I
don't sit through those lights, I'm going to chance it. And, you
know, I think -- I don't know if that's part of the group that you were
talking about going to vendors and stuff like that for haulers or bulk
haulers, but I think we should include them, too, and see how they
actually are paying their employees that haul these trucks. You
know, just get an idea on it, so...
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Absolutely, we agree. We brought
that topic up over the last two weeks about the number of loads,
getting paid by the load, so we will absolutely include that
messaging.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Sheriff. Keep up
the good work.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We have Commissioner Saunders,
Commissioner McDaniel's on deck, and we have two public speakers,
and we also have to get to a public -- or to a court reporter break, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If we could hear the
speakers, I'll make a motion at some point. I can do it right now, or I
can wait until the speakers.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just have a quick comment
with regard to the education at the sites with the quarries and the
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farming industry. You can't really adjust how the payment, in fact,
transpires with the dump truck. It just isn't really -- if you own your
own dump trucks, then you can have -- you have a say-so in it. But
as a general rule, a developer contracts a trucking company to bring
the material to them that is requisite. So you really don't -- but
education at the mine really, really worked well back in the day when
we did it.
We -- the manual, the DOT manual for a commercial motor
vehicle to meet the standards is about this thick (indicating). You
can't hardly -- this thick (indicating). You can't hardly stay in
business and meet all of those requisites that are in the law with
regard to the quality of the vehicle.
So we reduced that back and to certain visual things that could
actually be identified and brought forward and enhance safety at the
same time, so -- and I'll be happy to work with you on that.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I agree and -- with Commissioner
Kowal that, you know, if we can't do anything formally, we can
absolutely make it part of the information that is provided to the
driver that we know this is how things operate and, oh, by the way,
we're enforcing, and remember you have a CDL license, because if
you're not going to operate correctly, we're going to continue to cite
until you're taken off the road.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think one of the things, too,
that we did was we adjusted the hours of operation of the quarries
to -- because the hours were set to not let the trucks out until our peak
traffic times had actually transpired. So if somebody over there with
staff can look at those hours of operations again, maybe correlate that
with the peak hours, because those -- peak hours have adjusted with
our population increase. So if we can have a look at that, maybe
that's something that we can also make an adjustment as we're going
forward with this effort.
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SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. Great.
Troy, let's hear those public speakers. Then we'll take a break.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Monica Remer [sic].
She'll be followed by H. Michael Mogil.
MS. RAMOS: Commissioners, good morning. My name is
Monica Ramos. I was born and raised here in Naples, Florida, and
I've seen the roads go from smooth to what they are now, which is, to
be direct, out of control.
As someone who was hit by a drunk driver over 10 years ago
while at a red light intersection, causing lifelong injuries, this
accident involving a local mother and a semi-truck that occurred
three weeks ago on Immokalee and Logan alerted my maternal senses
of protection to the highest degree. I speak for every mother on that.
We are also a veteran family who does not take safety or security
lightly, especially being a parent.
I started a local petition on our local Facebook moms group
mentioned here at the last meeting with over 32,000 signatures
requesting safer roads and stricter consequences for violators. To
this day, the Collier County Sheriff's Office has been the only
organization besides the Naples Police Department to sit down with a
group of us to hear our concerns; however, by the next commission
meeting, this should be a formal agenda item.
What I have learned over the last several weeks is almost
everyone I've spoken to is afraid to drive and feels unsafe. Last
weekend, there were four deaths on our highway off North Naples,
and yesterday the Publix semi-truck causing a rollover. These are
just a few of the many that have happened since and will continue to
happen unless we truly want to involve more -- want to avoid more
getting killed or seriously injured.
We need more Florida Highway Department and more local
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police present on our roads. It matters, and it makes a difference.
I came to plea to our Board of Commissioners today for the
safety for everyone in Collier and to carefully review every street and
every road, including the internal signal timing with the Department
of Transportation, red light and speeding cameras, raising fines for
speeding, DUIs, and red light runners, especially for commercial
vehicles, in addition to infrastructure in congested areas such as
Immokalee Road and all roads on the easternmost part of our district.
We need to ask for the state and federal grant
dollars -- resources for our county. Our collective taxpaying dollars
should be spent within the borders of our county.
Like Mr. Anthony said, and the Sheriff, this involves everyone,
including us citizens; however, because of the population increase,
there needs to be additional traffic enforcement and consequences so
people respect our local laws and decrease distracted driving,
aggressive driving, red light running, speeding, and injuries or -- and
fatalities.
People need to know that when they come to Collier County,
they will be held responsible. We need to fight for the federal
grants. And I plan to serve my community by participating in the
Collier MPO's Steering Committee, and thank you for your public
service to this community.
MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker is H. Michael
Mogil.
MR. MOGIL: Good morning, everybody. Good morning,
everybody. I'm very sorry about that accident that happened a
couple weeks ago at the red light at the intersection. I almost had a
couple of those in the last couple of weeks myself. I'll just cite the
intersection; it's Vineyards Boulevard and Vanderbilt. Both cars
were going eastbound. The first incident, I was the first to make the
green light heading north to make a turn to go west. My wife was
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behind me.
I just look both ways when I go, make sure people stop. There
was a car coming down the road, and my senses said, "He's not
stopping." So I employed my new three-second rule. I count to
three when the light turns green and do not go until I'm sure. That
should be something that could educate the potential victims of red
light runners, like the school system and the kids in driver's training,
to wait three seconds. Don't be jackrabbit start.
My wife said if I went into that intersection with that car going, I
would have been T-boned and dead, absolutely positively. And if
not me, if she was behind me, she would have been gone. So that's a
bad intersection.
There was another light two days ago. I stopped to make the
right turn to go to Vineyards. A car just blew right through the red
light.
So I'm concerned about it; however, back in 2010 -- and,
Commissioner Saunders, I believe the lights were in before 2010.
They were removed in 2010.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. MOGIL: And I'm one of the culprits that had them
removed.
My wife got a ticket on 951 and Golden Gate Parkway heading
north. She came home and said, "I think I got a ticket. The light
flashed. I looked down, I looked up, the light was red."
Being the consummate scientist, I went to the intersection. I
timed the light. It was supposed to be 4.5 seconds in a 45-zone per
state standards. I think that's different than what was talked about
here earlier. But she was entitled to 4.5 seconds, and the traffic
signal was set at 3.8.
I went to the magistrate. I presented her case to the magistrate
on traffic violations, and she said, "Well, we'll give -- we'll discard it
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because your wife made a split-second decision." That wasn't the
reason. The light was just not set right.
So the light was then reset to 4.1, not 4.5. I checked other
lights in town. That was the only bad one. That was the cash cow.
That was what was funding the traffic program. The minute timing
was changed, months later it was gone.
So if the traffic people want to put red light cameras in and any
of you want to put them in, I would support it based on what's going
on now, but the traffic department has to be truthful.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, sir.
MR. MOGIL: If they're not, I'm against it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Chairman, I'll
make a -- I'm going to put this all into one motion, because I think
there's support to do all this.
First of all, I want our Transportation staff to prepare a budget
request, if you will, for the blue light at the different intersections. I
understand that's about $12,000 per intersection, and you mentioned
20 intersections. I don't know if that's the right number of
intersections, but come back with us with a number that you need for
those blue lights in conjunction with the Sheriff's Department.
And then I'd like, as part of that, for the Sheriff to come back
when he has the information that is needed to let us know what he
needs in terms of staffing and resources to help make these
intersections safer.
And then, thirdly, as part of that, to direct our Productivity
Committee to evaluate the costs and benefits of red light cameras.
None of us are taking a position in support of red light cameras right
now by doing this, but simply asking our Productivity Committee to
come back over a reasonable period of time, which may be 60 or 90
days, to kind of let us know what other communities are doing with
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red lights and -- red light cameras and whether or not that is
something that we want to consider down the road.
So, Mr. Chairman, that's the motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. We have a motion and a
second for these directions. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: So moved.
All right. It's time for our court reporter break. It's 11:11.
Let's come back at 11:20.
(A brief recess was had from 11:11 a.m. to 11:20 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. If you could take a seat, we'll
get rolling. County Manager.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 7,
public comments on general topics not on the current or future
agenda.
MR. MILLER: I have four speakers here in the room and one
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on Zoom. Your first speaker is Scott Lepore. He'll be followed by
Victoria Redstall.
MR. LEPORE: Good morning, Commissioners, County
Manager, Deputy County Manager. Thank you for having me here
today.
We heard a lot about emergencies today. We're about to have a
big one, ladies and gentlemen, and it's called a medical emergency.
Now, I've chaired sales tax for the last five years for this county,
and I've got to tell you, the people I deal with are phenomenal and
awesome here. The people in county government, they're
irreplaceable. They do a wonderful and phenomenal job. So I'm
hoping you can help, because we've got a real problem here.
The number-one job of the government is the role of protection
of the citizens. I take that serious, and I know you do, too. Blue
Cross/Blue Shield and NCH are in a battle to the death over their
contract. And at their meeting on Wednesday, they said they're
getting ready to drop 45,000 Collier residents who are on Blue Cross
and Blue Shield. Forty-five thousand. Not 450, not 4,500; 45,000
people.
So who are we talking about? Well, if you're on Medicare and
you have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, you're out. If you're on the ACA,
for people who are self-employed like myself who pay $2,000 a
month with a $15,000 deductible, I'm out also. All your FEP, your
federal employee pensions, they're out. County workers, fire, police,
EMS, if they have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, all your constitutional
officers, if their people have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, they're out.
The people at the 10 Teen Club on Marco Island who are a lot of
relatives, retired police and fire, people who passed away on 9/11,
their children, they're out.
But you know who's not out, ladies and gentlemen, everybody
who's illegal in the United States of America because they can have a
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fundraiser to cover that fund. I've had it with this. I'm absolutely at
the end of my rope.
The 45,000 becomes 60,000 when season starts because the
15,000 people from up north who are on Blue Cross/Blue Shield,
they're out also.
So now we have 60,000 people with two hospitals in Collier
County, two ERs. Do you actually think that's going to work?
Because I know it's not.
We have times when we have four emergency rooms open in
Collier County for everybody, and they go to diversion, and they
send people to Miami, to Tampa. They send them up to Sarasota.
How could we allow this to happen in Collier County?
So I called Byron Donalds, our congressman; I called State
Senator Passidomo; I called Commissioner McDaniel; and I called
State Representative Bob Rommel. All those people got back to me
within four hours on a Sunday, and they said, "You're absolutely
right. We're trying to figure this out." But we have the biggest
provider of healthcare in Collier County, NCH, versus the biggest
provider of medical, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, in the State of Florida.
They cover six million people.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MR. LEPORE: They're the biggest provider for lower and
middle -- middle-income people.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, could I --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes, go ahead, Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: After I spoke to Scott
Lepore, I sat down with our manager, and I think Scott might need a
couple minutes, because there's something here that really impacts
our budget and our operations in a very significant way.
I asked the manager to give a little thought to what happens to
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our EMS operations when we have 45,000 potential patients and
they're diverted to other hospitals or other communities because of a
diversion. And so I think it -- it's important for the Board to hear a
little bit more, with your permission, on that diversion issue and from
the manager as well if that -- that, I think, really gets to us a lot.
MR. LEPORE: So what will happen -- if I have permission to
continue.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yeah. Go ahead, Scott.
MR. LEPORE: Thank you.
So what will happen in diversion is people will be brought to the
hospital that's closest. So you have an accident, and they bring you
to NCH, and then they say, oh, you're one of those veterans who's on
Blue Cross/Blue Shield. We don't take that plan here anymore, and
they're going to ship you to Physicians Regional.
Now, Physicians Regional is also on diversion. They're going
to send you to Lee County. They're going to send you across the
state. They're going to send you to Tampa.
So as chairman of sales tax, we fund EMS stations, and we
know we funded three that were all critical need. One is being built,
and those other two are under -- are actually on hold right now.
So my question is, where -- what is going to happen to our EMS
system when we're spending all this time running people from one
hospital to another? You already have an EMS system that's
overtaxed. We know that because we have to build three new
stations. But what happens when somebody gets to NCH? Again,
if it was 450 people, ABC Insurance Company, I wouldn't be that
concerned. I would be concerned for those 450, but when it's 60,000
people, EMS is going to become a taxi service to shuttle people to
different hospitals that -- where the hospital accepts your plan.
We can't allow that to happen in Collier County. We just spent
420 million protecting the citizens. We're building a VA nursing
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home. We're building a David Lawrence health center. We just
spent $70 million last week to build the Sheriff a phenomenal
evidence facility combining criminal investigation, Ruth [sic]
relations.
Commissioner LoCastro, you know about this. You were in the
medical field. We're going to have an unmitigated disaster. And
where is NCH? Are they here? They were told the meeting was
coming. Do they not care?
I mean, their whole upper-level management's making a million
bucks a year in salaries. They took millions of dollars from our
community to build a community hospital that now isn't even called a
community hospital. It's called Naples Comprehensive Hospital.
But what is that going to do for our citizens? Why can't we protect
the veterans and the people on Medicare? We have a severe
population of people here who are geriatric.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We hear you, Scott.
MR. LEPORE: I'm asking for your help.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: When is this going to take
effect, Scott?
MR. LEPORE: Six days. Six days. They've been arguing for
100 days back and forth. In six days. What, are we going to
declare a medical emergency in February or March?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
You know, I was privy to -- you know, the city was dealing with
NCH reference to the heart and lung center to build a new facility
there, and, you know have a state-of-the-art facility for cardiac
and -- or stroke, I'm sorry, not lung -- cardiac and stroke.
But I think in the provision -- when they got approval through
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the City of Naples, you may be able to check this or not, but I think
the upper echelons of NCH had to -- had to deem theirself a
community hospital to get that passed. So I don't know if that has
any bearing on this or not, if that changes who they have to accept or
not accept by taking that designation on, but I know that was a big
part of the meeting because I was -- you know, that's part of my
district. And I believe they had to make that promise to get that
project done through the City of Naples Council.
So I don't know if that changes the makeup of what they can
accept or not accept or turn people away when they take that
designation --
MR. LEPORE: I know they took $20 million from my friend
as a donation, and now they want to cut everybody out of Blue
Cross/Blue Shield. I can tell you that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just don't know if that specific
designation of being a true community hospital changes from not
being a community hospital. I don't know if that has a bearing on it,
but -- unless somebody can investigate that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just one quick. I did speak
with Paul Hiltz, the CEO of Naples Community Hospital. I spoke
with Matt Holiday as well. There are no current plans, per
them -- per what I was -- what information was shared with me, there
are no current plans to not provide service for everybody that is
brought there.
The management of that expense is going to be different than
how it was before when Blue Cross/Blue Shield was, in fact,
accepted. But for now, there's no -- there's no specific plans for
diversion or anything along those lines.
So the thought process I had was do we, as a board -- because I
agree wholeheartedly that our No. 1 job is public safety. Do we
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want to -- do we want to have a hearing on this to find out if there's
anything we can do with regard to funding, offset of expenses, so ons
and so forths, just to ensure that our community is protected? Is that
something that this board can do, should do?
CHAIRMAN HALL: I don't know. You know, it's a tough
question. It's a slippery slope. You know, if you got involved
there, you have to get involved other places, and so I would like to
discuss that with staff and see what we have as far as options. And
if we want to come back, I think that's fine, but --
MR. LEPORE: Remember, you're going to have citizens who
die in Collier County because of this. I know a lot of people who are
struggling right now. I don't know if you noticed, but, like, food and
gas is through the roof. It's become unsustainable for the middle
class to live.
And NCH says, by the way, you could still come here. You're
just going to not be in network, so you're going to have to pay the full
price, which is, I don't know, 50,000 a day.
So, yeah, Commissioner Hall, you have to get involved. It's
45,000 people.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I agree. I just don't know how at this
point in time. Listening to you, I've been involved six minutes now.
I don't have the answer for you, but I am interested.
MR. LEPORE: I think every one of you should get on the
phone with the CEO of NCH and say that this is unacceptable. I
think the Collier manager should call them up and say that this is
unacceptable. We have given you millions and millions of dollars
over 60 years of our community support, and to tell 45,000 people
that they're no longer in your network is absolutely unacceptable.
It's not being a good community leader.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
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Let me just say a couple things. First of all, I share your
passion with this. Nobody up here wants to see anything crash and
burn. But I talk to Paul Hiltz regularly as well.
NCH is equally upset. Don't think for a second that NCH is
doing a whole bunch of things to not insure people.
I don't -- and I'm with Commissioner Hall, I don't know where
our jurisdiction is here. It's great that you reached out to
Congressman Donalds because I think -- not to say we can't do
anything, but it's not something the five of us could vote on, and then
it's fixed.
But I want to stick -- stick up for NCH just a little bit, if not a lot
of bit, because I know this is on Paul Hiltz's top-three list, and it's all
three of the things on his top-three list. Same with Matt Holiday.
So don't think for a second NCH is sitting back and saying,
well -- you know, don't forget, if they can't treat tens of thousands of
people, that's a negative for them. Not only for our community
impact but, you know, they're a hospital. They're a business as well.
The conversations I've had with him, and I'm sure you have as
well, they're irate, flabbergasted. I get their newsletter. The lead
article in their newsletter all the time is, "Citizens, please call your
representatives in Tallahassee. Please reach out to A, B, C, D, and
E." And it's usually not us, because I don't -- I don't think this
decision rests with us.
But, you know, I just wanted to just say, for the record, NCH
isn't rolling over on this or part of the problem. They are
aggressively working the solution. I think, you know, if we were
going to point fingers -- and that doesn't necessarily solve anything,
but it's at the insurance company, for whatever reason is -- you know,
has this issue.
But I think our role could be to actively open up maybe more
lines of communication and get even some higher-level folks from
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the state to get their input as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Commissioner Saunders, you
know, you had a discussion with our County Manager and the impact
on our EMS, and that is one place where we do have a say-so as to
making some decisions as far as funding and such goes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. At some point I do
want to hear from the Manager on what the potential impacts are. I
know you've got a couple other speakers. I don't know if you want
to hear from them before we make some decisions here.
But I also agree that -- Commissioner Hall used the term
"slippery slope." It is when you start getting into providing
healthcare.
So -- but there may be some things we can do, and I think the
discussion with the Manager following the speakers might give us
some guidance.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Victoria Redstall. She'll
be followed by Diane Van Parys.
MR. LEPORE: Thank you.
MS. REDSTALL: Thank you for having me. I am going to be
quick, because I'd like to give the rest of my time to Diane.
The root of the -- Chris was wanting to know -- I mean
Commissioner Hall, sorry -- was wanting to know how to do this.
I'm just thinking that the root of everything is the illegal aliens in this
county, and that is so important to me because I am a legal alien of
your country.
I took my mother to the emergency room a month ago, and it
took about 10 hours for her to be seen, and that's -- we pay our taxes.
We speak the language of the country. We've lived in wonderful
Collier County for three and a half years.
And to wait that long -- I am hoping that there was no illegal
aliens in front of me. There might have been, and I'm glad I didn't
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know about it; otherwise, there would have been a big scene created,
which I don't really want to do.
I think the root of everything is that wonderful 287(g) program
that the Collier County Sheriff's Department have. When they do
commit a crime, when there's a misdemeanor or a felony, they go
straight to ICE, and then ICE does whatever they want with them.
Well, why wait for them to create a second crime? They've already
created a crime by coming into our country illegally. They've
created -- they've committed that crime.
So once they come into this beautiful Collier County, right then,
don't you think the 287(g) program should be implemented at that
point and then call ICE? And that will then reduce everybody
coming into our hospitals and into our emergency rooms and into our
grocery store and blocking traffic. I could go as far as -- I mean, this
might be another day, as Diane said, and I respect her so much, so I
want to give the rest of my time to Diane Van Parys.
MS. VAN PARYS: Your next speaker is Diane Van Parys.
She'll be followed by H. Michael Mogil.
Diane, please don't talk as fast. Our court reporter has to get
these words down.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I also just wanted to say that
this isn't Congress or the Senate, so you can't yield your time to
somebody else. So you either don't speak for three minutes and you
give her your full three minutes -- but if you speak for two and a half
minutes, she doesn't get an extra 30 seconds. That's what they do in
D.C. It doesn't work that way here, although we have a little bit
more latitude based on what the Chairman decides on letting you
finish your sentence or what have you, but I just wanted to clarify
that.
MS. VAN PARYS: Okay. Great. Diane Van Parys.
So I'm going to offer you two perspectives. One is on NCH, of
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which I have been at NCH over 10 times in my 14 years here, and
most recently I was there for five days in April. So I do have a great
perspective on being a patient there.
But secondly, for 10 years, prior to going on Medicare last year,
I was also on Florida Blue. So I want to offer both perspectives.
And the first thing I want to say about Florida Blue is the
relationship with NCH over the years had been really very good, and
I'll give you an example. When I was getting my hip replaced, I was
going to Dr. Biggs. And Dr. Biggs said, "Diane, you're young. I
want you to get outplacement [sic] hip replacement, because you're
very healthy. I do not want you in a hospital in NCH." Well,
Florida Blue denied the outplacement and said it was out of network,
and they said, "You must go to NCH." So I had my hip replacement
at NCH, and Florida Blue paid NCH $23,000 for my hip replacement.
Now, a Medicare person, they pay 7,000, but because I was
under Medicare age, 23 grand went to NCH. That's an example of
Florida Blue having a great relationship with NCH.
Now I'll go into some NCH stuff. NCH is no longer Naples
Community Hospital. It is called Naples Comprehensive Health.
They actually have a center for philanthropy. Most non-profit
organizations have a development group that raise money. No, they
have created the Center for Philanthropy.
And in their most recent newsletter, they -- in September, they
had a Florida Blue update, and they had a video created by Paul
Hiltz. And one of the things he said when he opened up the
video -- it was 2.38 minutes -- was, do you know that Florida Blue
made $14 billion in the first six months of 19 -- or 2024? What a
way to start. That's because they've been having these ongoing
negotiations for 100 days, and he's complaining that he's not getting
the same reimbursement as other hospitals in the area -- that might be
the Physicians Regional, the for-profit -- and that he wants fair
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reimbursements because Florida Blue made $14 billion. That's not
the criteria.
And so they demand that they put patients first, so they created
standwithNCH.com website of which they have all kinds of things
that literally are saying, oh, we need the money. We need higher
reimbursements and everything; whereas Florida Blue, if you noticed
in the Naples Daily News, they took out a full-page ad and said, "We
need NCH to improve their criteria and their patient services and
their patient abilities."
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Diane.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is H. Michael Mogil. He'll
be followed on Zoom by Ewa Front. I know Mr. Mogil will be the
last person speaking on this issue. Ms. Front will be speaking on a
different issue.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I know this is somewhat out
of the ordinary. Diane is kind of waving like she needs just another
minute or two. Can we give her another minute? I mean, I --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Sure.
MS. VAN PARYS: And I'm coming down on
the -- against -- not against, but I'm coming down and sharing some
things about NCH.
So I did do a little Gmail search of mine, and I pulled up a bunch
of NCH e-mails. But one of them was a job opportunity they had.
So I just want to read this so you'll understand where they say they
are and -- versus where they really are. In six days they're going to
be giving up 45,000 plus all those Medicare patients that have
Medicare Advantage Plan.
NCH is an independent, locally governed non-profit delivering
premium comprehensive care. Our healthcare system is comprised
of two hospitals --
THE COURT REPORTER: Can you slow down, please.
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MS. VAN PARYS: Oh, sorry -- comprised of two hospitals, an
alliance of 700 physicians, of which we have a significant number of
physicians that have gone concierge, and medical facilities and
dozens of southwest.
We are transforming into an advanced community healthcare
system, and we're proud to provide higher acuted [sic] care and
centers of excellence, offer graduate medical education and
fellowships, have endowed chairs, conduct research and participate in
national clinical trials and partner with other healthcare market
leaders like Hospital for Special Surgery, Encompass, and ProScan.
Join our mission to live a longer, healthier, happier life.
They have not -- we're committed to care and believe there's
always more at NCH for you and for every person.
In addition to that, in their wonderful center of philanthropy,
they say every -- they're asking for donations to help provide the care.
Forty-eight percent of our gifts are under 2,500. Please consider
giving care to improve patient care and save lives.
Here they want to knock out 45,000 people. And I just want to
clarify, Medicare Advantage Plan, the reason people select Florida
Blue is so that when they go north, they can use it, because that can
be used in every single state in the country. So that is a huge
significance.
I'm -- as I said, I'm actually not on Florida Blue Medicare
Advantage Plan, but what I feel is NCH is really taking to task and
saying all of these things when they're a non-profit hospital,
non-profit community hospital, and they're going to be eliminating all
of these people.
And they have said in their video and in their stand -- their stand
with NCH -- on that web page, they have all these things that said,
"You will have to pay out of network if you come to our hospital."
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Diane.
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MS. VAN PARYS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is H. Michael Mogil. He'll
be followed on Zoom by Ewa Front.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Did you want to comment?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, I do.
And I don't want to preempt any comments that you have, but I
think we're all in agreement here that we want to -- we want to bring
the right folks together so we can have this discussion.
I appreciate, Diane, your passion and things that you've said that
have merit, but I can tell you NCH has done a lot of the amazing
things in this community. So before we bash them, we need to work
with them. I mean, we're going to gain nothing by saying "NCH is
horrible. They've printed all this stuff in the paper."
Trust me, you think Florida Blue is without any kind of, you
know, critique? You think they're some kind of amazing charitable
company run by the Vatican?
So let's make sure -- and even they're not squeaky clean. I
think -- this panel doesn't have the authority to just say yes or no and
fix this, but what we do have is the air speed to bring the right folks
together and say, "Look, we're very concerned as a community here."
We don't have 10 hospitals in Collier County.
So, you know, you sit here and -- so you've got either -- and
you're right, sir, you know, I did work at Physicians Regional. One
of the things that Physicians Regional doesn't have is some of the
specialties that NCH has and vice versa. So there's even less choice
in this county if you need something serious. The reason a lot of
people get sent to Miami isn't because they would -- they wouldn't
pay enough here. And the hospital didn't look at the procedure as a
cash cow. The reason a lot of people get transferred is we don't have
certain specialties here, and you have to go to Miami or you have to
go to Jacksonville.
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But having said that, we gain nothing here by bashing a
community hospital here that has saved a lot of lives and has done
some amazing things.
In this particular case here, they're having an argument with an
insurance company, and, you know, there's probably, you know,
blame on both sides. But make no mistake, NCH isn't cheering that
they may not be able to take, you know, Florida Blue or Blue Cross
and Blue Shield anymore. They want to be able to do that.
I don't know that we have every single little fact here, but I think
we have the ability to have a much more formal discussion as we do
when we have big things that affect the community and bring in the
experts here, like Paul Hiltz, like Matt Holiday, who we work with on
a regular basis, and even the folks from Physicians Regional. I'd like
to get their perspective as well.
So I don't know how we wind up going about setting that up.
But, you know, we're just getting a lot of data here that does have
merit, but it's not going to solve anything this afternoon.
But, you know, I'll end it just by saying NCH does a lot of really
good things for our community, and if we need to get their attention
on this one a little bit stronger, then I know I can speak for all five
people up here, then we will do just that so we can separate rumor
from fact.
But go ahead, sir, the --
MR. MILLER: Mr. Mogil.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I yield my time -- the
remainder of my time to you, which is three minutes.
MR. MOGIL: I was going to say 30 minutes, but that's okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Now, when you waived the
remainder of your time, were you talking about for the entirety of the
meeting or just for this one item?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: See ya.
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wanted to get the
record clear.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you going to give us a
weather report, Mike?
MR. MOGIL: Later.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, okay, okay.
MR. MOGIL: When they talk about the beach erosion and
sand.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha, gotcha.
MR. MOGIL: So I'm a certified consulting meteorologist,
since you brought it up, and I do a lot of work with lawyers and
insurance companies dealing with weather matters. So I'm going to
sound a little bit like an attorney now, so please bear with me.
I'm a card-carrying Florida Blue member. I've also done most
of my medical care that needs hospital attention at NCH. And I
concur with you, Commissioner LoCastro, neither side is without
fault. I have many issues with Blue Cross that I'm going to send to
Washington to get them fixed.
One of the issues -- I'm just going to throw this out here,
information. They will pay a claim by a billing office for a certain
procedure, or whatever it is. The doctor's name is down there. I
don't know who the doctor is. They've paid it. I have no way of
finding out if it's a legitimate claim or not. That's the Blue Cross
side of it.
But the other part of the issue is, at least in the federal program
from FE [sic] Blue, there is an open season starting next month on
November 5th or November 12th. That's a real window, because if
this goes into effect, there are going to -- people that are going to
make changes in their insurance coverage based on open season.
And I don't know if FEP Blue has -- I mean Florida Blue has an
open season here, whether Humana or other people do. This says
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that if this isn't resolved during the open season, people will either
make bad decisions and be stuck with it for a year, or people will not
make a decision thinking things will be okay, and then they're not
okay.
So what I'm going to suggest, and I think the people that have
spoken before me and some of you have said, is we may not be the
best group to decide upon a solution, but I think that this might call
for some type of court action that says, "Let's have an injunction on
the negotiations. Let's keep them going and not throw people to the
wolves as we go to an open season that may compromise
decision-making."
So I don't know how best to do that. I don't know if the county
should do it as part of a quote, "medical emergency." If we should
be doing it, to the four of us that are here. But the point is that if we
make a decision on the 1st of October, a month and a couple weeks
later, we're going to be stuck with that.
And so I think it would make sense to say the negotiations need
to keep going at least through open season.
So that's my suggestion. And I can provide testimony of plus
or minuses of FEP Blue or F -- not FEP Blue -- Blue Cross/Blue
Shield, Florida Blue, or NIH -- NCH, I'm sorry, not NIH. That's a
different issue.
But anyway, I think that we need to have, like, a cooling-off
period to get this done. So that's my suggestion. I offer it to the
commissioners.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, our final speaker is not on this
issue. Did you want to have a discussion before I called that
speaker?
CHAIRMAN HALL: (Shakes head.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. Your final registered speaker for public
comment is Ewa Front. Ewa, you're being prompted to unmute
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yourself, if you'll do that. I see that you have. You have three
minutes.
MS. FRONT: Good morning, Commissioners.
I'm speaking today to request your support in reinstating remote
participation options for Collier County residents in Domestic
Animal Services advisory board meetings.
Until recently, these meetings were accessible to the public via
Zoom or Collier Television. DAS is a vital community service, and
all residents have a stake in its operations.
The advisory board meetings provide valuable insights into
recent progress, changes, and politics, making them an important
resource for the community.
Collier County's the home to a diverse population with residents
at various stages of life. For many families, the evening hours when
advisory board meetings, 6 to 9 p.m., are dedicated to family
activities like sports, practices, homework, and dinners.
The county has already made a significant investment in the
community outreach position at DAS with a budget of nearly
100,000. This position is responsible for promoting programs and
services through social media. I suggest that this individual, quote,
at no additional cost to taxpayers, live stream the DAS meetings on
platforms like YouTube, Facebook, or X. By reinstating remote
participation options, we can ensure that all residents, regardless of
their schedules or circumstances, have the opportunity to stay
informed about the important work of the Domestic Animal Services
advisory board.
And thank you.
MR. MILLER: And that's our final registered speaker for
Item 7.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. County Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 9,
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the advertised public hearings. I guess before we get started here,
let's check on what your thoughts are. We have three companion
items. This is JLM that we'd be starting with here; however, we are
up against -- if you want, we still have a full agenda here for the rest
of the afternoon. So you probably want to make a decision on how
far you want to go into the land use or if you want to take a regular
agenda item and then lunch and then pick up land use. Your -- at
your pleasure.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, let's -- my suggestion is
before we jump into the land-use items and such, let's have a
discussion about what we were just talking about and bring some
action of finality to the circumstances with Florida Blue and NCH.
I'm not -- I'm not certainly well-versed enough to have a
discussion right now without all of the parties. I totally agree -- and
I know that there is an imminent time frame coming in here with
regard to these negotiations and -- but I really think we, minimumly,
should schedule a -- have a hearing on this with all of the parties that
are impacted; someone from NCH, minimumly, as well as our
own -- a report from our EMS as to what's transpiring with regard to
transport as well as Physicians Regional and actually have a hearing
on it.
I don't -- we can't whip up a hearing in four hours today. But,
minimumly, set it for our first meeting in October just to -- just to
hear what's going on. And the question I had was maybe for
Commissioner Saunders and/or the County Attorney, and that was a
suggestion of some kind of an injunction to force the continued
discussion of the negotiations. Is that something that we're
authorized to do?
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't know. I mean, I don't think we
can, but I can come back at the next meeting.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think -- first of all, I think,
you know, there's a drop-dead date of six days from now, so there's
nothing that can happen within the -- that we can do in the next six
days.
But I've got a couple thoughts, and they may be crazy. First of
all, I do want the manager to kind of let us know what the potential
impact is here. But I'm wondering if we have the Chairman or
someone else from the Board, but someone from this commission to
meet with Paul Hiltz and see if there's a way to get a -- at least get a
30-day extension on the current reimbursements for NCH so that the
negotiations can continue. That may be something that NCH may be
willing to do. That may be something that Florida Blue might be
interested in hearing, you know, a 30- or 60-day extension, so that we
don't have a six-day drop-dead date here and then give us a little bit
leeway.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I don't understand the extent -- I don't
understand the open season, but if we could get a -- and if we could
get a -- I'd be willing to talk to them. I mean, I understand in this
deal there is definitely two sides to this story. There's an insurance
side, and there's a provider side. So this is the first I've heard of it,
so my brain is spinning.
MR. MOGIL: Can I explain open season?
CHAIRMAN HALL: If you can do it really briefly, Mike,
come up.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: While he's coming up to the
microphone, I think that in terms of what I'm suggesting is if you
could have that -- I think you've spent your lifetime negotiating.
And maybe Paul Hiltz would be willing to understand the problem,
especially if we hear something from the Manager in terms of what
that's going to be -- what the impact's going to be on our operations.
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But, again, I don't know anything about their contract. I don't know
anything about this dispute. The first thing I heard about it was last
Friday. But reasonable people can sometimes sit down and at least
work out a time frame for us.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's my --
CHAIRMAN HALL: No, it's a good thought. Okay. Open
season.
MR. MOGIL: Okay. So when you sign up for -- at least on
the federal level I'm talking about. I don't know about Florida Blue
in Florida -- you have a six-week period where you can change
insurance providers. So I have -- I have FEP Blue now, as a retired
federal employee. I can stick with FEP Blue for the next year and do
nothing, or if I say, gee, you know, I'd really rather go to Humana, so
I have six weeks to physically change enrollment so that now for the
next year I'm in Humana. If I don't do that, I can't change in the
middle of the year. I can't decide I don't like FEP Blue anymore. I
want to go to Humana --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Gotcha.
MR. MOGIL: -- or one other -- that's the thing. There are
other open seasons out there. You'll see them advertising all over
the place and on TV, even Humana and others. That's the open
season. You can make your changes. That's it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: This opens November the 5th?
MR. MOGIL: I think it's November 5th or 12th. It's the
beginning of November.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I definitely would like to have somebody at least represent us to
have a conversation about this with all sides, because I think the EMS
thing is going to be crucial because we don't want to have
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individuals, you know, using our services or we're providing service
to people, and we're -- you know, and our typical policy is, you
know, take them to the closest available facility that can facilitate
their particular illness or injury and them arguing with our staff, "Oh,
I can go to -- I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield." And, you know, this
just -- it's just not a good thing either way you look at it.
But I guess I'm going to ask the obvious question in the room. I
just heard about this on Friday, too. You know, there's not, like, a
lot of news or anything covering it. But the obvious question is, is
there other health providers in the state of Florida that are in the same
position as NCH?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There are.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Do we know that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There are.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You'd think that would be a
state -- story on the news.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Lee Health is also in there.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So there is some other -- I just
was curious, because I didn't -- I've seen nothing on the news. And
you'd think, when it comes to healthcare, it's very passionate,
especially Southwest Florida with our elderly population.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: A couple folks might be able
to answer that, it sounds like -- or it looks like.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, they're both fighting for the
podium.
MR. LEPORE: Thank you. So in my conversation with the
people at Blue Cross/Blue Shield, there are a few areas. Lee County
is having the discussion, too. That will create a catastrophe if Lee
County and Collier County are both locked out of Blue Cross/Blue
Shield. I just can't imagine where we'll be.
And, Commissioner LoCastro, I'm not here to rag NCH. I
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actually went to the community meeting last Wednesday, and that's
when Burt Saunders approached me on Friday at the Hilton Hotel and
said, "What is going on?"
I went to that meeting on Wednesday. Usually you don't get to
this point. A hospital does not come out and tell you that they're
having a severe problem with contract negotiations, to call your
elected officials and call the number on the back of your insurance
card. So I know that they got to a critical point when they had that
meeting.
What I thought was interesting was that they told NBC2, who
did the story, "We've drawn a line in the sand, and we're not
budging."
Now, I've spent 35 years of my life negotiating, and negotiations
are always a little give and take. And when somebody says, "I draw
a line in the sand," that's why I reached out to commissioners, all the
elected officials, because I knew that we're getting ready to have a
huge problem. And I am very concerned how this will affect EMS.
MS. VAN PARYS: And what I'd just like to add is that in
2022, Millennium Physicians Group, which is a very large group in
Collier and Lee County, they actually suspended two different
Florida Blue accounts. They got rid of Medicare Advantage, Florida
Blue PPO, and an HMO for regular people. And so that had an
effect, and people had to make changes. It wasn't communicated
well by Millennium or by Florida Blue, but it was impacting them at
the last of the year for January 1st.
So my whole thing about this is if we could get that extension,
because all the Medicare people that are on Medicare Advantage with
Florida Blue, when they come back in January, if they're out of
network for NCH -- and let's face it, NCH, at least 50 percent of their
patients are Medicare -- that's going to be a very rude awakening.
Those people aren't even here. They have no idea that that's
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happening, and that's a lot of people.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: One thing I will tell you that
I do know is if you're out of network and you walk in an emergency
room, they still have to see you.
MS. VAN PARYS: Oh, right, they have to see you, but I just
want to -- can I just say one thing. I had that five days at NCH, and
do you know on my second day I was getting text messages that
they -- that my insurance, which happens to be Aetna, not Florida
Blue, that they still hadn't approved me to be in the hospital and I
needed to contact the doctor. Here I am in there and -- anyway. I'm
just saying, yes, they'll see you in an emergency, and they'll put you
in the hospital if you need to be but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who's paying?
MS. VAN PARYS: The people are always looking for the
money.
MR. LEPORE: And if you're out of network, Commissioner
LoCastro, they're going to charge you full price. So when I went to
the emergency room last year for six hours, they billed Blue
Cross/Blue Shield 24,000. The share of mine was about 6,000.
So are you saying to me that I'm supposed to go there and pay
the out-of-network fee of $24,000? Because that just sounds
ridiculous. And it sounds like something we'd be doing in Collier
County to our veterans and our seniors. It just -- something doesn't
smell right here. And the fact that we're six days out, and nobody
knows what's going on, that's not anybody else's fault except the
people that control everything. So they knew that they were in a
battle with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. And I agree, Blue Cross/Blue
Shield is not the hero in this, but we can be the hero if we can figure
it out.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. And I hate to belabor
this, but in terms of emergency care, because I think it's important for
the public to know, I happen to be one of the authors of some
legislation a long time ago, and that requires Blue Cross/Blue Shield
or any insurance company to cover the normal cost of emergency
care if you wound up in an out-of-network hospital. So if you have
Blue Cross/Blue Shield and that's out of network, and you have an
emergency, you're taken to NCH, you're going to be covered, but
that's a special statute that deals with that. Beyond the emergency
care, you're right, you're on the hook for that.
MR. LEPORE: Right, and then EMS would have to come get
you, and with 60,000 people in January, I just think it's going to be a
disaster for all of us.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Maybe these will be the final
comments. But I didn't just find out about it on Friday, so I talked to
Mr. Hiltz, you know, quite a bit, when I -- actually, even when he
saw this coming.
Here's the thing. Florida Blue, much like every other insurance
company, it ends with the word "company." These are companies.
They're not, you know, in the business of curing people because
they're good Samaritans. They also have a different contract with
different hospitals.
NCH's argument from day one is that this insurance company is
paying other hospitals at a higher rate than NCH is getting paid.
When -- I asked Mr. Hiltz weeks ago, maybe even a month ago,
why is that the case? And I might be -- I don't want to speak for
him. That's why I also want to -- and I don't want to summarize
incorrectly, but the gist that I got from the person who's the CEO of
NCH is he didn't feel that NCH maybe had done the best job keeping
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up with negotiations. And so while they were watching competitive
hospitals have stronger contracts with the insurance company, NCH
was sort of lagging behind, which happens at times. You know, you
feel like you're just getting enough, and then you talk to your
counterpart up in Sarasota who's running a hospital up there -- and
I'm just, you know, making up examples -- and you find out that the
same insurance company is compensating the hospital at a much
higher percentage.
And, you know, in order to make our hospitals, you know,
better -- people always say NCH is not-for-profit. Trust me, the only
thing that's not-for-profit is a church, and even they're for-profit.
There's no such thing.
Like you said, the executive's making X number of dollars.
When I was the COO of Physicians Regional, people actually thought
because we were a for-profit hospital, if you went to NCH and had
your appendix removed, it was 50 bucks. If you came to Physicians
Regional, it was $50,000 because we were for-profit. Totally not
true. It's all regulated by a very specific, you know, set of criteria for
costs.
But I remember Mr. Hiltz telling me -- and it was probably a
month ago -- that this was -- they were in a very deep negotiation
because they felt like there was unfairness in what this insurance
company was paying other hospitals in the state of Florida for the
exact same things. That's how this whole thing started.
And I believe I traded a couple notes with him just recently
when I -- when this was a couple of weeks out from the deadline
date. And I believe NCH had requested to continue negotiating and,
you know, in so many words he basically said they don't want
to -- they're done negotiating, so they're trying to, you know, force
the issue.
Trust me, NCH doesn't want to put 40,000 people, you know,
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without insurance in Collier County, and Florida Blue knows it. So I
think they're trying to sort of maybe force the issue, or maybe both
sides are trying to have sort of a stalemate.
But that's the big issue. It's compensation.
MR. LEPORE: Yeah. It's the reimbursement rate. And I feel
like I'm watching two trucks on a one-lane road revving up at 100
miles an hour that are about to hit each other. And you know what
the casualties are? The 45,000 citizens --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. LEPORE: -- citizens who live in Collier County.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But I'd love to know
from -- I'd love to know from NCH why our hospital, you know, is
getting less of a reimbursement than hospitals of equal size, equal
population, and I don't -- nobody would have that answer in here.
You know, we could surmise it and guess at it, but I think, you
know -- but, you know, getting the facts is what we need.
But I believe that Mr. Hiltz was trying to continue negotiations
and not have a drop in coverage, and it was -- it was Florida Blue that
basically drew the line in the sand and said, you know, "Here's the
date. Take it or leave it," so I don't know why that would be. But,
you know, Mr. Hiltz is a pretty good negotiator as well, and I'm sure
he doesn't want to see 45,000 people drop out of his -- you know, his
network as well.
MR. LEPORE: And we don't want to see 60,000 of our people
have to go find a new primary care doctor come October 1st and then
have to get referrals in networks when they've been diagnosed with
serious illnesses like cancer.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is a life-and-death situation. We
have to do something. Even if it's outside of our purview, we have
to try. And I'm begging you to do that. I've been here 35 years.
I've given a lot of my time to this county and the community, and I
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really love this place, and I need your help on this.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Scott.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, let's bring this to a
head. I would suggest, Commissioner Saunders, do you want him to
be the --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Well, he's got a relationship with Paul
already.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, we all do, but I mean,
he -- Commissioner LoCastro probably knows the most about all this
internal workings and hidden mechanisms, and I would suggest that
if the County Attorney finds out that an injunction can be utilized to
continue negotiations, that we allow Commissioner LoCastro to
initiate that so that we can force the negotiation to be consummated
and brought public.
So I'd shift it from Chair to Commissioner LoCastro to be the
Board's liaison, and then we have -- and then we have a specific item
at our first meeting in October. That's really as quickly as we can
whip anything up short of that injunction, unless we have an
emergency meeting, and I -- I don't know how you-all feel about that.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I will reach out to him
immediately when we have a break here, and I will insist on a
face-to-face meeting immediately as well, because this is a ticking
time bomb. And I know Paul will -- you know, will say yes
instantaneously.
And I'm by no means a subject-matter expert, but I might have
just a couple more percentage bits of knowledge on the insurance just
from -- and also, too, I'm hoping I can pull Physicians Regional,
which sometimes isn't as sort of involved at times with certain things,
into this discussion as well because, I mean, we're trying to make
sure that healthcare across Collier County, regardless of what hospital
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you go to, doesn't implode or that one hospital isn't overwhelmed.
Trust me, Physicians Regional isn't licking their chops hoping
that, you know, NCH implodes, because they can't handle the
volume. And so it's not a matter of that.
But if that's the will of the Board, I will reach out at the -- at our
next break to Paul personally, and I will meet with him
instantaneously and then report back. And I can -- even not the next
meeting. I can send something through the County Manager and just
say, here's what he told me, here's what we're doing, and, you know,
keep everybody abreast of what's going to happen in the next, you
know, six days or not.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
I think that's a great suggestion. I think at our next meeting the
agenda item should be for just the discussion on options as opposed
to listing anything. I don't want to be in a position of where we're
making some commitment to do something that we -- like an
injunction, filing a lawsuit, those things. I don't know that we want
to be in that position, but I do think we should have a discussion of
our options and just to leave it open.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I'm fine with that.
You know, there again, it was just a suggestion I had just because of
the six-day fuse and, you know -- and then the impact on our EMS
system at large. We have exposure if it starts flowing over
into -- into the utilization of our EMS system, so...
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, do you want to proceed
with land use?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Let's see. I'm trying to shoot for a break
at 12:45. How many speakers do we have on the --
MR. MILLER: 9A and 9B and 9F?
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Zero.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. Yeah, let's move forward.
MS. PATTERSON: All right.
Item #9A
ORDINANCE 2024-41: AMEND COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN TO ADD THE JLM LIVING EAST
RESIDENTIAL OVERLAY TO ALLOW A MAXIMUM DENSITY
OF 305 MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING UNITS WITH
AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR PROPERTY WITHIN
THE RURAL FRINGE MIXED USE DISTRICT- RECEIVING
LANDS. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE
SOUTH SIDE OF IMMOKALEE ROAD, EAST OF WOODCREST
DRIVE, IN SECTION 25, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 26
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF ±37.2
ACRES. (PL20220003804) (COMPANION TO ITEMS #9B & #9F
(PL20220003805 AND PL20230007642) (ADOPTION HEARING) -
MOTION TO ADOPT WITH CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER
HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
APPROVED (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: These are companion items, Item 9A, 9B,
and 9F. I'll read them into the record, and then we'll get you sworn
in with the court reporter.
9A is a recommendation to amend Collier County Growth
Management Plan to add the JLM Living East Residential Overlay to
allow a maximum density of 305 multifamily dwelling units with
affordable housing for a property within the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use
District Receiving Lands. The subject property is located on the
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south side of Immokalee Road, east of Woodcrest Drive, in Section
25, Township 48 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida,
consisting of 37.2 plus/minus acres.
Item #9B
ORDINANCE 2024-42: APPROVE A REZONING OF REAL
PROPERTY FROM A RURAL AGRICULTURAL (A) ZONING
DISTRICT WITHIN THE RURAL FRINGE MIXED-USE
OVERLAY-RECEIVING DISTRICT AND WITHIN THE SPECIAL
TREATMENT OVERLAY (ST) FOR THE PROJECT TO BE
KNOWN AS JLM LIVING EAST RPUD TO ALLOW
CONSTRUCTION OF UP TO 305 MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING
UNITS WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING ON PROPERTY
LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF IMMOKALEE ROAD,
EAST OF WOODCREST DRIVE, IN SECTION 25, TOWNSHIP 48
SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, CONSISTING OF 37.2± ACRES.
(PL20220003805) (COMPANION TO ITEMS #9A & 9F
(PL20220003804 AND VACATION PL20230007642) - MOTION
TO ADOPT WITH CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
(COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 9B is a recommendation to approve a
rezoning of real property from Rural Agricultural (A) zoning district
within the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use Overlay Receiving District and
within the Special Treatment Overlay for the project to be known as
JLM Living East RPUD to allow construction of up to 305
multifamily dwelling units with affordable housing on property
located on the south side of Immokalee Road, east of Woodcrest
Drive, in Section 25, Township 48 South, Range 26 East, consisting
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of 37.2 plus/minus acres.
Item #9F
RESOLUTION 2024-188: ADOPT PETITION VAC-
PL20230007642 TO DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE, AND VACATE
THE COUNTY AND THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN THE 10-FOOT-
WIDE PUBLIC ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY EASEMENT OVER
THE WESTERLY 10-FEET OF TRACT A-1, AS DESCRIBED IN
OFFICIAL RECORD BOOK1476, PAGE 242, OF THE PUBLIC
RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, LOCATED
APPROXIMATELY 2,000 FEET SOUTH OF IMMOKALEE
ROAD (CR-846) AND 1,000 FEET WEST OF RICHARDS
STREET IN SECTION 25, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 26
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (PL20230007642)
(COMPANION TO ITEMS #9A, #9B & #9F (PL20220003804 AND
PL20220003805) - MOTION TO ADOPT WITH CHANGES BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
LOCASTRO – ADOPTED (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS
OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: And finally, its final companion is
formerly Item 17A, now Item 9F. This is a recommendation to
approve Petition VAC-PL20230007642 to disclaim, renounce, and
vacate the county and the public interest in the 10-foot-wide public
right-of-way easement over the westerly 10 feet of Tract A-1 as
described in Official Record Book 1476, Page 242, of the public
records of Collier County, Florida, located approximately 2,000 feet
south of Immokalee Road and 1,000 feet west of Richards Street in
Section 25, Township 48 South, Range 26 East, Collier County,
Florida.
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This item does require all participants to stand and be sworn in
by the court reporters -- court reporter.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: And before the applicant gets started, we
need ex parte from the commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I'm going to say I have
ex parte on all three.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I do as well.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. I have on 9B, 9C [sic],
and 9F; all meetings.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I have the same. I
have meetings on all three of those.
CHAIRMAN HALL: And we'll catch Commissioner LoCastro
when he returns.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good afternoon. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich on behalf of the applicant, which is JLM Living LLC.
Dan Deichert is with me today from JLM. Mr. Arnold is our
professional planner, Mike Delate is our civil engineer, Jim Banks is
our traffic consultant, and Marco Espinar is our environmental
consultant.
I'm going to do, if it's okay, an abbreviated presentation for this
matter since there are no public speakers, but I do want to cover the
basics.
The property is located on Immokalee Road. It's just east of
Woodcrest Drive, which you can see, which is right over here. And
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Woodcrest extends all the way down to Vanderbilt Beach Road. So
there is an opportunity to avoid the intersection of Immokalee Road
and Collier Boulevard when leaving this project.
The project -- the acreage is 37.2 acres --
(Child crying.)
MR. YOVANOVICH: I hope it wasn't me.
The future land-use designation, we're within the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District, and what we're proposing is a Growth
Management Plan amendment, which I know at some point can be a
dirty word. But the only reason we're doing this Growth
Management Plan amendment is not for the density, because we
already are consistent with the density under the current Land
Development Code density bonus system, but the county hasn't yet
done its amendment to allow for people making 100 percent or less of
the median income to get that density for rental projects.
So the only reason we're doing this is because that amendment
hasn't yet been made, but as you all are aware, the 30 percent
set-aside for income restrictions is for the 100 percent and below
category and as well as 80 percent and below category, and every
rental project, obviously, has had that restriction recently. So we're
doing this because we're just a little ahead of the county on getting
the 100 percent and below rental incomes to qualify for the density
bonus.
So that's what we're doing, a small-scale Growth Management
Plan amendment. We're doing a rental project that's a little unique.
We've shown you -- and the Planning Commission liked the project,
and staff liked the project. You'll either have basically small
single-family homes for rent, or you'll have duplexes for rent.
So it's not your typical apartment complex that's three or four
stories tall, which is consistent with the communities around us,
which are both single-family and single-family with multifamily in
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them.
That's the exact language that's in the code.
For purposes of what's around us, you will see this is LaMorada
over here, and what we've done is we've limited our -- we have
one-story residences next to LaMorada, and over here -- I think
maybe the next page is the better page -- and over here is Ventana
Pointe, and we have single-family, one-story residences along there
as well. So those were all in response to the communities next to us
saying, "Please have lower one-story residences next to us."
We've addressed buffers on both sides to address concerns from
those two communities. And I think we've done a good job, because
they're not here. And at the NIM there were some concerns, and we
took care of those concerns.
So your Planning Commission recommended approval
unanimously, and staff is recommending approval.
It is a unique project. It's only 8.2 units per acre, which is
probably one of the lowest densities you've seen for a multifamily
project, and what we're also doing, since we're in the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District, is we are buying TDRs to get to the base of one
unit per acre. So we're -- we're complying with the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District by buying TDRs, and we're complying with the
county's mandate basically to provide 30 percent income-restricted
units for any bonus above the one unit per acre in the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District. And the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District does
actually -- was recently amended to allow up to 12.2 units per acre.
Under the density bonus program that's in your LDC, we could get to
8.5 units per acre for what we're providing. We're at 8.2.
So with all that, we're consistent with the LDC, we're consistent
with the GMP, and we've had unanimous recommendation of
approval from the Planning Commission, and we have staff support.
That was a lot, and I probably spoke too fast. Terri, I'm sorry.
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And with that, the whole team is here to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Let's start at the
bottom, or on the south end. Do you have a written access
agreement on Sundance?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sundance is a public road, so it's
already in place. It's platted. So Sundance is there. We have an
emergency access on Sundance. And what we're vacating is
basically a driveway that was serving the two parcels that are
adjacent to Sundance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The driveway came up into
your piece, but I was just talking about the access --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Right here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- out on the south side of
Ventana. It was my understanding that that was owned by them.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Nope. Sundance is public from us all
the way over to Richards.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Somebody checking
on that, Trinity? Because that was my -- it was a concern. And if it
is a private road --
MR. YOVANOVICH: It was public, as we were initially going
to try to vacate that as well, but the people to the south, which is
Calusa Pines, were opposed to that, so we -- it's public dedicated
easement. So we have access all the way over to Richards.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Number two, when
we met yesterday, you talked about the potential utilization of the
school site as an off-hours egress for your subdivision --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- alone. I would like to -- I
want some kind of a provision, assuming -- if this approval goes
forward, I want a written proposition to the school as to what you will
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do to garner that access --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- as to what you'll -- how
much you'll pay and how you'll regulate it and maintain it. You
made mention yesterday of multiple things, but my understanding, in
communication with the school, was no actual offer was ever made.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'll have to follow up, but I'm pretty
sure I sent an e-mail explaining what we would propose to do, and
we're happy to get them another proposal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not arguing with you.
I'm just sharing with you --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- that it was represented to
me that no actual offer was made "if you do this, we'll do that," and
vicey versy, and I would like --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want that to be a portion
somehow. Because one of the holdbacks that I have on the
development is the ingress and egress. It all dumps out onto
Immokalee Road, and then it forces U-turns, and I think there are
three U-turns that were availed to these folks before -- in order to be
able to get out and go back to the west. So certainly having access
to that traffic light would be a huge benefit if it can be done in
cooperation with the school.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure. We are happy to put another
offer in writing to them and hopefully have some discussions that are
fruitful.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Is there any way we
can tie that in?
MR. YOVANOVICH: We're happy to -- you can direct us to
make that offer.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Obviously, I can't be beholden to
whatever they demand. But we are -- we're very interested in getting
that access, so we've been trying to have discussions, as we talked to
you about.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: On the traffic count, is there any hard
numbers what we're going to add or --
MR. YOVANOVICH: There is a -- Wayne, do you have that
number handy?
MR. ARNOLD: The trip cap?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah, the trip cap. I'll get you the
number here in a second.
It's 314 two-way peak-hour trips, which the road obviously
could accommodate. I know it's a busy road, but it does not re-grade
the level of service.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Any other comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: I'll make a motion to approve all three of
them and -- with the understanding that you'll make the offer to the
neighbors for the traffic light.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yep. I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- on the motion, just a quick
comment. I am still concerned about the traffic on Immokalee Road,
so I'm not going to support the motion. You know, this is one of
those projects, it's a very nice-looking project, and it's in an area that
is not all single-family, but the issue still is -- for me is the increased
traffic on Immokalee Road, so I'm not going to support the motion.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
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COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this,
Commissioner Saunders. I mean, anything that gets built is going to
increase. A 7-Eleven gets built, it increases traffic.
Is there anything you think the developer could do that would
make you feel a little bit better about the flow or -- I mean,
because -- I mean, this piece of property's not going to turn into a dog
park. It's going to be something that's going to increase traffic.
So I mean, we have a developer here that's at the, you know,
final stage, you know, before we -- and this might be apples and
chairs, not apples and oranges. But one of the things you said at a
previous meeting when we voted on an apartment complex and you
said, "I kind of hate it the least because you could get a charter school
that comes in there." And we're all worried about traffic, and then
all of a sudden something worse comes in.
So before we, you know, vote 4-1 and it moves forward, I'm not
as concerned about the vote. I'm more concerned, as we all are,
about making this as good as humanly possible. This is your district.
Is there something that you asked them to do that they refused or
something with the design or, regardless, you just don't like this
project?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: There's nothing that I asked
them to do, and I think the condition that Commissioner Hall has
talked about in terms of at least attempting another offer for the
access -- but my concern is we are taking, basically, residential
property and we're changing the Comprehensive Plan, and I had
objected to that. So that's my problem with it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And I'm really happy
that you incorporated the written request to the school for that access,
because that's key to success for any kind of flow.
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And the comment that I'm going to make -- because I can count.
We're getting ready to go here. But it is imperative -- because I had
a discussion with Mr. Bosi yesterday. We're behind on what we
need to be doing with the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District.
The -- I've asked for quite some time for the matrix with regard to the
TDR generation in relationship to the TDR consumption and the
necessities for those, and the development criterium within the
receiving areas of the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District have been
known to be onerous and prohibitive for any developer to come
forward, acquire the TDRs, and still meet the development criterium.
And so my ask is here, publicly, that we ramp this up, County
Manager, so that -- I also know we lost three planners within the last
30 days, and Mr. Bosi's spinning in circles. And so we need to hire a
contractor. We need to hire contract consultants to ramp up this
effort because, again, we're starting the GMP amendment for Golden
Gate Estates Rural east of 951 and moving that through that East of
951 Horizon Study Committee. Ultimately, those GMP amendments
are going to come back to this board as well.
So I think it's imperative that we ignite the relook at the
RFMUD. So I'm done. We can vote.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I need to correct something I said. The
number of trips is not 314. It's 295. Not that it makes a big
difference, but it's less than the number I had originally said.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. I'm -- we have a motion and a
second to move this forward with the change that we're going to get
an offer in writing for the red light use.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: 4-1, so moved.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That was for all three, correct?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes, that was for all three items.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
Item #9C
RESOLUTION 2024-187: ADOPT A RESOLUTION OF THE
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS OF COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, PROVIDING FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A
CONDITIONAL USE TO ALLOW A COMMUNICATIONS
TOWER ON LANDS ZONED ESTATES (E) WITHIN THE RURAL
GOLDEN GATE ESTATES SUB-ELEMENT OF THE GOLDEN
GATE AREA MASTER PLAN ELEMENT OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN PURSUANT TO
SECTION 2.03.01.B.1.C.12 AND SECTIONS 5.05.09.E.1 AND
5.05.09.H OF THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE ON +0.39 ACRES OF A +5.15 ACRE TRACT LOCATED AT
3147 31ST AVENUE NE (PARCEL 40171120002), AT THE
NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF NE 31ST
AVENUE AND EVERGLADES BOULEVARD NORTH, IN
SECTION 20, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 28 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (CU-PL20220003008) - MOTION
TO ADOPT AS PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to 9C.
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This is a recommendation to approve a resolution of the Board of
Zoning Appeals of Collier County, Florida, providing for the
establishment of a conditional use to allow a communications tower
on lands zoned Estates within the Rural Golden Gate Estates
Sub-Element of the Golden Gate Area Master Plan Element of the
Collier County Growth Management Plan pursuant to Section
2.03.01.B.1.c.12, and Sections 5.05.09.E.1 and 5.05.09.H of the
Collier County Land Development Code on plus or minus .39 acres
of a plus 5.5-acre tract located at 3147 31st Avenue Northeast at the
northeast corner of the intersection of Northeast 31st Avenue and
Everglades Boulevard North in Section 20, Township 48 South,
Range 28 East, Collier County, Florida.
County Attorney, do we need to swear in the participants for this
item?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. All of the participants, please
stand to be sworn in by the court reporter.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: And before we get started, again, ex parte
from the commissioners, please.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I'm sorry. What item
are we on now?
MS. PATTERSON: 9C.
CHAIRMAN HALL: 9C.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm taking notes on this stuff.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You're not negotiating with
Paul Hiltz at NCH. Kidding.
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: 9C, meetings. Sorry about that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't believe I had any ex
parte, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I have no ex parte.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I don't either, no.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, I have a whole bunch of
ex parte with a whole pile of them yesterday when I was over at
Great Wolf Lodge. But I do -- e-mails and phone calls with regard
to this.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great.
MS. PATTERSON: Very good. We'll begin with the
applicant.
MS. JAHN: Good morning -- or good afternoon. My
apologies. I'm Mattaniah Jahn, 935 Main Street, Suite C-4, Safety
Harbor, Florida 34695.
I have taken an oath. I also have with me Bill Compton with
Verizon Wireless, Byron Ellis with -- Elkins with T-Mobile, and
George Brosseau with AT&T should you have any questions as to the
RF need for this site. I also have a property appraiser, David
Taulbee, and all of my witnesses have taken oaths.
I come before you today with staff and Planning Commission
recommendations of approval for the construction of a 180-foot-tall
monopine-style communication tower upon Parcel 40171120002.
And the parent parcel is cleared land with a single-family house.
As I go into my maps today, all maps that I show you, up will be
north unless I state otherwise.
So first I'm showing you an aerial from your Property Appraiser,
and you can see Oil Well Road as the yellow line that cuts east and
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west through the middle of this. Of course, we have the Rural
Estates showing -- you can see the fairgrounds up in the
northeast -- northwest corner, and Immokalee Road comes down
from the northwest corner and curves around. Off to the east is
agricultural lands that will become the Town of Big Cypress, just to
help orient us.
This project is where the yellow arrow is, and it's a parcel that
is -- has frontage along Everglades Boulevard. Everglades
Boulevard is the white line that you see heading north and south
immediately to the west or left of my arrow.
So as we proceed closer in, you can get a better view of what's
going on here. Of course, you can see Oil Well Road cutting east
and west. You can see the Starwood PUD or the Hyde Park Rural
Lands Stewardship agreement, I believe, is what the underlying name
is, but it's developed as Starwood, and you can see the -- you can see
Everglades Boulevard running north and south.
The yellow parcel is the parent parcel.
To the north are ranchettes. And I was asked during Planning
Commission what do I mean by ranchettes. I mean houses that are a
bit of land, enough land where you could have an outbuilding. So a
couple of acres is, in my experience, what a ranchette is.
Then we have 33rd Avenue Northeast and then Oil Well Road.
Then we have Rural Estates proceeding north of Oil Well Road.
To the south is 31st Avenue Northeast, so that's immediately
south of us. Then you have residential lots, more of the ranchette
lots in the Estates as you proceed south.
To the east are more of those ranchette lots in the Estates as you
proceed off east towards a canal at the end of our road a mile away.
To the west is a house owned by the landlord. You'll see that
on a closer view. Then you have Everglades Boulevard, and the
other side of that is more ranchette lots.
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This property qualifies for an essential -- and I've applied my
yellow arrow. And this is a closer view to give orientation again.
And, again, the yellow parcel is the parent parcel. You can see the
house owned by the landlord. He has family residing there, is my
understanding, and then you have Everglades Boulevard.
This property qualifies for the essential service of a
communication tower under your Land Development Code because it
does have frontage along Everglades Boulevard. And that is where
you -- that is where your code directs communication towers in the
Estates.
Without going too deep into history of the code, and I'm -- and I
apologize if I'm retreading ground that you've been over before.
Once upon a time, the Estates were not open for communication
towers. When you did open them up a couple years back, you added
a provision that directed communication towers to be located near
major roads such as Everglades Boulevard.
All right. And this is just your county GIS showing that we are
Estates zoned and then showing that -- and this is your county -- this
is your county Future Land Use Map showing the parent parcel has a
future land-use category of Estates.
Communication towers are an allowable use via the
conditional-use process in the Estates when the parent parcel has
frontage on roads like Everglades Boulevard. We are not asking for
any -- Bridger is not asking for any relief or variances from your
Land Development Code.
All right. I'm showing you Sheet Z-3 from the -- from the plans
on file. And the monopine provides the code-required 50 percent
tower height separations from Estates-zoned land in all directions.
Specifically, as you move to the north, the east, and the south
and the west, you actually exceed the code required. So to the north
it provides 1.6 times tower height, to the east it provides 2.1 times
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tower height, to the -- to the south you have 177 feet, and -- to the
south we have -- and then to the west we're for 5.3 times tower
height, and that's the code -- I apologize. That is multiples of the 50
percent tower height separation. So my apologies. I normally take
lunch at 11 a.m. So the numbers that you are seeing here are
multiples of the code-required separation.
But further the mono -- and this is what I was rushing into is the
next set of numbers I'm going to be showing you. The monopine
exceeds the spirit of your Land Development Code by providing 100
percent tower height separation or your non-camouflage tower
heights distance to the nearest residential structures.
So to the north, we have 1.4 times tower height. To the east,
1.2 times tower height. To the south, two times tower height, and to
the west, we have 1.19 times tower height. That's to the house that's
on the parent parcel. If I were to measure to the nearest house that's
off the parent parcel, that would be a much larger distance. The
closest house to this project is actually the house on the parent parcel
owned by our landlord and occupied by his family.
The monopine -- further, the monopine-style communication
tower -- and I'll go into what that term of art means in a
moment -- meets the Land Development Code's required lot setbacks
for Estates-zoned land. This will be designed to the latest Florida
Building Code and have 130-foot fall-zone radius. A fall-zone
radius means that there's a pre-engineered crimp point where the
monopine will fold over upon itself if it were to fail.
Your Planning Commission asked me to provide something
more than just my description of what that looks like, so I did
provide -- one moment -- an example. So this is an older tower that
had been damaged by Hurricane Michael, and you can see that the
damage from the hurricane's pretty extensive to the area around it, the
trees and whatnot, but that tower in that picture is all in one piece. It
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just folded over upon itself, and that's what they're designed to do.
All right. So as you can see, the monopine is centered on the
eastern side of the parent parcel. It is this circle that is within the
white square, which is the equipment compound, and then the gray
border around that is the code-required landscape buffer. The
code-required 8-foot-tall masonry wall or fence will be provided.
This is just Sheet Z-4 showing that the monopine is designed to
collocate. Your code encourages that towers are shared or
collocated in order to prevent the proliferation of towers, so you don't
end up with stuff like what they have in Atlanta where you would
have clusters of towers. You might see the -- my memory of that is
going along the Buford Highway in Atlanta, and you have several of
them on the same parcel. In this case, you just have one tower.
There is adequate space at the bottom for sharing and, of course, this
will be collocated by Verizon as the anchor tenant up top along with
AT&T and T-Mobile.
I'm showing you Sheet Z-5. This is just the elevation of the
monopine. And a monopine is a type of tower where it is designed
with a single support pole with no guy wires or ironworks extending
out from it, but it has a vegetated canopy that's on it, a foliated
canopy. That covers the top portion, and then the antennas are
nestled within that canopy inside vegetated socks.
The vegetation is renewed on an as-needed basis, basically on a
cycle, usually about 10 years, and your -- one of the proposed
conditions of approval gives your county staff the ability to enforce
that.
The additional arrows that I'm -- the red arrow that I'm showing
is Verizon's collocation. The additional arrows you see below are
AT&T which is blue, and T-Mobile which is purple, and then you
have a teal or green one, and that is an available collocation which
will be made available at market -- market rates.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: I may be jumping the gun, but you've
done a great job of showing us where this is and what it looks like.
But what is the public benefit? You know, what's the range it's
going to extend services and what -- where are we going to get from
there? And I may be jumping the gun, and I apologize if I do, but
I'm hungry, too.
MS. JAHN: Understood. I will go straight to that.
So going into Verizon's RF need, I'm going to just go over
Verizon and then T-Mobile and AT&T. Basically, Verizon's
currently trying to serve the area around Oil Well and Everglades
from towers that are 3.3 miles to 9 miles away, and the signal just
can't reach to provide a reliable signal. When I say "reliable signal,"
that means you can pick it up and you can call; you can have your
connection to the outside world.
So anyways, you can see Verizon's indoor coverage shown here,
and that's green, and then Verizon's red unreliable coverage, which
means you might be able to walk outside and get signal. You might
be able to get some type of garbly signal, but if you want it to connect
and for sure work, it needs to be green.
So anyways, the blue is -- the blue is the proposed tower, and
then you can see other spots around here, other black markers -- I
should be using my mouse instead -- and those are existing Verizon
towers. And, basically, Verizon is collocated on all the towers in the
area. They're getting ready to bring online a new tower at the yellow
dot, and that's Golden Gate Boat.
I've provided -- and now I'm providing the proposed coverage.
You can see that -- and this also shows Golden Gate Boat, because
that was recently approved, and we had a question from staff, "Won't
Golden Gate Boat take care of that?" As you can see, Golden Gate
Boat can't reach that far.
But the Verizon signal will improve -- will be reliable along Oil
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Well Road along -- along Everglades Boulevard but, most
importantly, it would be reliable into the Estates. So as you can see,
it starts to cover that area.
AT&T, they've been in part of this project since 2023. They
were not the original anchor tenant, but they joined. Their ideal
location would be smack in the middle of the intersection of Oil Well
Road and Everglades Boulevard and have the tallest tower they can
have to provide as much coverage as they can. This is pretty close.
So anyways, AT&T's maps, they provide three -- basically three
levels of color in their maps. And red is you have questionable
service even outdoors. So last -- last -- when I came before the
Planning Commission, I made an allusion to the fact that parts of this
area have shown up on the news as a dead zone. AT&T is struggling
with service here. All the carriers are struggling to provide service
here. So red is just that. That's where even outside you may not be
able to connect.
Yellow you can probably connect outside. You can't really
connect indoors. And then green is good everywhere.
And on the left-hand side is -- of course, the triangle shape that
you see that has no color on it is the proposed tower. On the
right-hand side, the black marker with the triangles is the proposed
tower. So you can see before and after. If you have questions about
this, I do have Mr. Brosseau available.
And then, finally, T-Mobile, their colors go from blue, which
is -- your phone might say there's a bar out there, but it can't work, to
green, reliable. So just more colors, but same theme.
And then if you don't have any color at all, it's not picking up
signal. So you can see how bad T-Mobile's situation is and, of
course, you know, they're committed to trying to provide service out
here, and you can see after. Again, I have Byron Elkins available.
And this shows them at 125 feet, so further down on the support pole.
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Of course, this will provide the code-required generator, because
you do treat this as essential services. These facilities must operate
even in hurricane conditions and bad conditions where power is out,
and this will provide that. This will be un- -- this will be completely
dark at night, and I do have my Collier County mosquito control
approval.
I'm available for -- I am and my witnesses are available for any
questions you may have. I do have more presentation, but I assume
we all -- this hearing -- this day has been getting long in the tooth
already. So I will try not to take up any more of your time.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, number one, these
maps of coverage that you've shown for these three carriers, I would
like to make sure that they get to my senior staff.
I had a discussion yesterday, I think, with Mr. Bosi and
Mr. French with -- I want a map that shows all of the existing cell
towers and the effective coverage areas that are -- that are provided
by the location of these cell towers, because in the adjustments that
we made to our Land Development Code, we proposed that
government properties be moved up on the list as locations for
potential cell towers to be -- to be installed so that we have better
coverage.
The issue that we've been running into, staff has been running
into, is Verizon's got their coverage map, and it's -- and they show it
to us, and then they take it away because they say it's proprietary.
You've just opened up a can of worms by showing these in a
public format so that -- I want these maps. I need these maps so that
we can further develop our plan of cell coverage and capacity for our
entire community. And it needs to be some kind of -- there can't be
a shroud over these coverage areas simply because of the -- of the
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necessary use of the cell tower or the cell phones today.
I would venture a guess 90 percent of our residents don't have a
landline at their home any longer. And so in order for us -- because
it has been deemed an essential service, in order for us to be able to
develop that location map and see these holes in the coverage, we
have to -- and utilize government properties first, if we can, in fact,
utilize those. I would like these maps sent to my Planning
Department as soon as possible.
MS. JAHN: This is Mattaniah Jahn. And yes, these maps will
be forwarded after this hearing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good.
And the second question I had -- maybe this is for William with
Verizon, and that is there is another cell tower approved site at our
wastewater/water facility up on the north side of Orangetree. If you
could go to your -- to the map. I think it was one of the first maps
that you showed that it was more regional. You were talking about
Oil Well Road going through the middle of it.
MS. JAHN: Absolutely. So --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not that one.
CHAIRMAN HALL: First map.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right there.
And if you look where it says JAX COLT SA1B11, if I'm not
mistaken, that cell tower is -- there is a proposed cell tower site there
on the wastewater/water facility. Will there be -- is there a need for
another one there? And that's -- I think that may be a question for
the person from Verizon.
MS. JAHN: Understood. And just to make sure that I
understand, of course -- and we are all -- all on the same page here, of
course, the black dot that says DeSoto and Oil Well is the proposed
tower, and the commissioner is asking about -- Commissioner
McDaniel is asking about JAX COLT. And then if I understand
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correctly, my mouse is pointing to the approximate location of the
new county-approved tower on your water treatment plant.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that fairly close, Mr. Bosi?
MS. JAHN: It disappeared on me, my apologies, just as I got
there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I thought it was on the bend
on 39th Street extension south, coming down through Orange
Blossom.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
The Orangetree PUD was modified to allow for a
telecommunication tower to be developed at the public utilities site
within Orangetree, so that -- it's a site that's available. There's not a
tower there, though, right now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand there's no tower
there, but where is the -- because when we did the PUD amendment,
there was some discussion about potential variance requests or
deviations because of the width and breadth and the necessity for the
fall. Do you recall on that wastewater site where the cell tower --
MR. BOSI: It's anywhere -- it can be anywhere within
the -- within the utilities site or within the park. It just needs to
be -- the height of the tower has to be separated from any closest
residential development.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So we haven't -- we
haven't actually sited a location yet. Okay.
MS. JAHN: But just to make sure that I'm on the right page,
because I do believe I held a --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you put your cursor further
to the east just about down around by the S where it says SA1B11.
MS. JAHN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In that square there is
where -- it could be in our park as well. We amended the whole
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Orangetree PUD, but that -- your mouse --
MS. JAHN: It keeps disappearing, and I apologize,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Troy's messing with it; that's
what it is.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Troy's doing it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
MS. JAHN: Sorry, Troy.
MR. MILLER: I'm not doing it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the location.
MS. JAHN: All right. So I'm going to have Bill Compton
speak for -- come up and speak. So, Mr. Compton, please state your
name and --
MR. MILLER: You can use this with a big arrow instead of the
cursor.
MS. JAHN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: There we go.
MS. JAHN: There.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's approximately the
location.
MS. JAHN: Thank you, Troy.
All right. Please state your name and address for the record.
MR. COMPTON: Sure. It's William Compton. Address is
7701 East Telecom Parkway, Tampa.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hello, William.
MR. COMPTON: Hi.
MS. JAHN: What is your position at Verizon?
MR. COMPTON: I'm a senior network design engineer.
MS. JAHN: Okay. And are you familiar with the project
called Palmetto Ridge 2? You may have it in your records as
DeSoto and Oil Well.
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MR. COMPTON: DeSoto and Oil Well, yes. I'm very
familiar with it, yes.
MS. JAHN: All right. And how are you familiar with it?
MR. COMPTON: I did the original search ring design on it.
Originally, the search ring was further east when we couldn't build
anything in the Estates zoning, and then after the subsequent
rezoning, we started looking further to the west.
MS. JAHN: All right. So specifically, Commissioner
McDaniel is wanting your thoughts on a tower that would be
located -- or that is approved but not constructed east of your -- of the
marker called JAX COLT. I'm going to just stop at JAX COLT.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's fine. We're
dealing -- that whole piece of property is now allowed for a cell
tower, if you haven't heard.
MR. COMPTON: News to me. News to me.
MS. JAHN: So first off, can you tell us what the markers "JAX
COLT" on this -- on this plan -- on this aerial means?
MR. COMPTON: So JAX stands for Jacksonville. COLT
stands for a cell on light truck. So that's a temporary cell site that
we've set out there. There's a Collier County emergency operations,
like, backup center that's out there, and we've set that up there -- I
believe it was earlier this year we finally turned it on. And it's the
sat BH. Means it's satellite backhaul. That's how we get the
transport back and forth from our switch back to that site. So that's a
temporary site. It's 74 feet tall. It's a guide structure that has
concrete pilings that are down in the ground that we just tied to. So
it's a temporary site at the request of Collier County to get something
out there for hurricane season. We're here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And so given that
that -- thank you for that description. That wasn't what I was asking.
What I was asking was, is the location of the wastewater/water
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treatment plant shortly -- right about where Mattaniah has the cursor
now, is that going to be an overlap of service if the proposed
conditional use is granted?
MR. COMPTON: No, it would not be an overlap just due to
this distance there. You're probably talking a mile and a half to two
miles distance in between those two locations. And the big
draw -- if we built a site there to the north, which now that I know
there's one, I'm going to go back to my office and create a search ring
for that. The big draw on that site would be the two schools that are
south of there, the high school -- is it Palmetto Ridge High School,
and there's a middle school to the west that are huge traffic draws on
our network right now.
So if we built a site there, it would basically cover that area.
We would still need something to the east to cover the residential to
the east.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just -- if you don't
mind -- if you don't mind, a brief explanation. I know the
Chairman's hungry, so I don't want to take an enormous amount of
time, but this has to do with bandwidth and then density of
population within the proximity of the tower.
MR. COMPTON: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you wouldn't mind giving a
brief description with regard to that. Because that area up there is
considerably more densely populated than the rural portion over in
Golden Gate Estates.
MR. COMPTON: Understood. And also I really wanted to
answer your question about asking about a coverage map.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. COMPTON: In the early days of cellular technology, 1G
and 2G technology, basically your phone, once you had a connection,
you had a connection. That's all you needed. Basically, that's all
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you used the phone for.
Now the phone's used with a technology that's called adaptive
modulation. Adaptive modulation means, basically, that if I were a
mile from you, about all you'd be able to see is me flashing a light at
you or sending up smoke signals, the closer I get, the more
information we can share between each other. I can share a piece of
paper with you. I can -- you can see me, my facial expressions.
Cellular technology kind of works that same way. The closer
you are to the cell site, the more information we can get back and
forth between that and the user. So that's the reason why the cell
technology is trying to get as close as we can to the users. Each one
of these Gs of technology you keep hearing about, it's trying to get
the bay stations, the cell sites closer to the users.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And just so you
know, one of the things that we really want to promote is the location
of government-owned facilities for cell tower locations and as many
booster facilities as can be accommodated on our parks and rec
system. We have parks and recs throughout the community
light -- and I understand it's not -- it's not the discussion that we're
here today for.
MR. COMPTON: Understood.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But cell tower -- cell service
is imperative simply because of it being deemed an essential service.
MR. COMPTON: Absolutely. And schools, hospitals, those
type -- and shopping center they show up on our traffic maps where
we see actual usage from the users, so that's the places we want to be.
So if your public lands are a landfill, that's not something where
we're going to really want to serve. So just to be 100 percent
transparent; that we're going to be -- want to be where those locations
are where our customers are.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha.
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MS. JAHN: Commissioner McDaniel, maybe I can help.
Bill, cell towers they only have so much -- like a road, they only
have so much capacity. The bucket of people they can serve is only
so big; is that correct?
MR. COMPTON: That's correct.
MS. JAHN: So if I'm -- if I am building a tower east or west,
wherever I go I have less or more the same size bucket. And I
apologize if I'm grading you, because I can only build the tower out
to hold so much antennas and radios, correct?
MR. COMPTON: Basically, yes. What happens is if you -- if
those customers very far away from the cell site, that bucket gets
much, much smaller because of that adaptive modulation I spoke
about before. So not only is there capacity, but it's also the capacity
needs to be in the right place where the people are.
MS. JAHN: And that's what I was trying to get to. So if
you're in an area that's very dense, like over by JAX COLT, that
bucket gets used up by the people right around --
MR. COMPTON: That's correct.
MS. JAHN: -- the tower, but if you're in an area that's more
spread out, that bucket -- the contents of that bucket can go farther; is
that right?
MR. COMPTON: Correct, at a limited amount of capacity, just
because of the distance involved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So there's no -- to make it in
my understanding, there's no real -- there's no real radius of coverage
based -- consistent -- consistently based upon the radius around the
tower. It's based -- it's more about a consumption within --
MR. COMPTON: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- within the proximity of the
tower. So that's my thought process.
MR. COMPTON: Absolutely. With the worst-case scenario
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being all those customers being far away from the cell site, which is
the situation we have in the area now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Public comment, Troy.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We have three registered speakers
for this item. Your first speaker is Garrett FX Beyrent. He'll be
followed by Terry Jean Mary.
MR. BEYRENT: For the record, Garrett FX Beyrent. And
I've done business with Mattaniah Jahn way back when he was
Matthew Jahn. That's way -- 12 years ago.
Long story short, for my son, the cellular tower -- which they
spent years actually getting approval from the county but didn't build
the tower because it became obsolete before it actually got built.
This is actually a great tower location. I was out there
personally buying a Suzuki Samurai four-wheel drive from a buddy
of mine that lives very close to that red zone. My phone didn't work
at all, and he said, "Well, guess what, we're way out there." You
know, you're in that -- everything that has been said is absolutely
true.
And I recommend approval of whatever Mattaniah wants on
this, and I'm pretty sure Mike Bosi will back me up. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Terry Jean Mary to be
followed by Roselyn Cadet.
MR. MARY: My name is Terry Jean Mary, and we live there.
I have no problem of signal. We've no problem of signal being over
there whether we're in the house or on the yard. We do not need that
tower there on our street.
And access to the tower is not on the main road. It's on the
dead-end street. And I also have some studies of a real estate report
of a tower being near a residential area. If you like the guy's name,
Commissioners, I'll pass them to you.
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I have three of -- within the United States.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You can just give them to the
court reporter, if you want to.
MR. MARY: There's three of them from the United States, and
two of them internationally, which is -- they do -- they told us they
have no bearing on the house value and insurance. They have. I'd
like to see their study, because all this based on lie. That's not what
those studies shows.
I'd like for you guys to look at them and even look at the rest
of -- that I didn't check -- that I didn't bring here, because I would
think this would be too much of a -- for you guys to read. But
there's five of them. Just check them out and see, and it will show
you the study being done.
And we're tired of the lies. And they even told us last time we
were here, these cell phones puts more RF, which we're not allowed
to be voting on. This cell phone puts more RF than the tower. How
does it provide signal to the cell phone if the cell phone puts more RF
than it. I'd like to have a response to that. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker and final speaker is
Roselyne Cadet.
MS. CADET: For the record, my name is Roselyne, and I
wanted to touch on something. We were at the Planning
Commission's meeting, and they said that they could not make any
decisions, like my husband was saying, based off of RF, so we're
approaching this from a different angle.
We can't determine -- if I tell you that it's going to cause health
problems, you can't make your decision. Your hands are tied. I get
that. But as people that are sitting here that we voted for to represent
us, there's other angles that we can approach it.
As far as car accidents, I know earlier today we had some
individuals that were talking about distractions, and having a
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tower -- there was other images at the Planning Commission that she
showed and told us that you could see the tower from Immokalee
Road, from all different places, and I feel like it would pose a
distraction.
And we also have -- like my husband was saying, it's not on a
main road. It's off of Everglades. It's on 31st. So the access, and
even in the images that were shown, would be on 31st, and 31st is a
dead-end road. So you can't detour if they're doing construction.
You can't detour if they need to do repairs, so that's an issue for us
living on that street.
We also have -- we know that the Estates is an area that is prone
to wildfires. There's a fire hazard being that it's so close to
residential areas. It's so close to homes. So if there's any issues
with the electrical equipment, if a lightning strike -- I know that
there's lightning rods, but what if something malfunctions? We have
homes within close proximity to that tower.
When we think about the generators that she was mentioning
earlier for fuel backup, they could cause potential risks as well if
there's a structural failure due to a storm like a hurricane. She
showed the picture where there was a collapse, but what if it's an
intense hurricane and it just doesn't fold on itself? What if some of
that debris hits a home that's right next to it?
And when we talk about fire, we could talk about the vegetation
within the property, but there's other homes that this individual is not
going to be -- these cell tower -- these companies are not going to be
maintaining. How are you going to control those things for fires in
that area that's prone to fires that have homes right next to them?
And ground -- for the ground stability and digging, we know
that a lot of individuals, the majority of them are on well water.
How does that impact our soil erosion, our water tables? Those are
very important issues.
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And our wildlife, how they will be impacted with that structure.
What if -- we have a lot of protected species that are out there.
Birds, they can run into it.
It will increase traffic on that dead-end road, like I mentioned
before. The generator can cause noise pollution with people living
there. There's a liability factor when it comes to insuring homes that
are next to towers. And I've called insurance companies that -- it
costs more to insure a home that's right next to a tower.
So I have a number of concerns with it being in that location,
and the proposed location that Mr. McDaniel stated is a better
location because it's not right on a street that has homes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Rose.
MS. CADET: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That's all our speakers, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
MS. JAHN: This is Mattaniah Jahn. May I please have a copy
of the letter that our second -- that the second speaker provided so
that way I can give that to my property appraiser so he can see it?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, sure. Let's talk about
the access to the tower. I thought I read something in the -- in the
writeup here that described that there wasn't going to be any access
off of 31st.
MS. JAHN: So -- this is Mattaniah Jahn. I'm going to go to
that sheet. There are two access easements. One is off of
Everglades. The proposed driveway is off of 31st. One moment.
The legal standard under your Land Development Code and
what I think you saw was that the parcel has to have frontage on a
major road like Everglades. So a condition was added that this
parcel can never be parceled. It can never be subdivided so that it
loses its frontage from Everglades Boulevard. So it always has to
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be -- it always has to be continuous to Everglades.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that prohibition is in this
request that the subdivision cannot occur?
MS. JAHN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you have any idea about
the trip generation traffic-wise with regard to the maintenance of the
tower?
MS. JAHN: Yes. So the rule of thumb is one trip per carrier
per month, typically in a pickup-truck-sized vehicle. That's actually
an overstatement of the trip generation based on how it used to be
back at the beginning of my career when these facilities were less
automated. Now they're able to monitor them more remotely.
And also, your Transportation Department provided -- reviewed
and found it to be exempt from trip generation as well because it was
de minimis.
So in other words, it produces less trips than if you built a house
on that side of the property.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Obviously.
That's all I had, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Any other discussion?
MS. JAHN: If I may, so lightning strikes, these towers are
designed, of course, with lightning rods and grounding rods. If
you -- which basically means they direct any lighting strikes into the
ground and they don't allow it to expand past the compound. That's
just basic engineering. If you need to hear from Derek Dye with
Bridger Tower Corporation, he can speak further on that.
Generators, of course, you have a sound -- you have a noise
ordinance which requires dampening, but then -- and this is
something that I ended up discussing in great extent up in
neighboring Lee County where there was a concern. The fact that
you require a masonry wall or fence actually functions as an
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additional sound dampener over top the dampened generator that
already meets code.
Structural failure, you have a fall-zone letter that is in the record.
And, of course, when it comes to the building permit -- when it
comes to building permit review, the tower and the entire structure
will be provided for review, the calculations, but they are designed to
fold over like that.
Ground stability, they perform a geotechnical analysis. We are
outside of your well -- outside of the municipal wellheads, and these
do not affect groundwater. It's simply a concrete caisson that goes
down, like what you would find underneath, say, a power pole or a
traffic light.
Wildlife, you have a National Environmental Policy Act study in
your -- in the record showing that there is no impact, and, of course,
we are undisturbed lands that were previously developed as
agricultural operations.
I think I hit all the main issues except for property value.
As far as insurance goes, Bridger carries general liability
insurance. If you want, I can have Mr. Dye step up and speak to
that, but -- and then, finally, I'm going to have David Taulbee come
up and just speak to property values, if I may. Again, I know we're
at 1 p.m. now, but just to address that.
MR. TAULBEE: David Taulbee, Lee Pallardy, Incorporated,
out of Tampa, and I have been sworn.
I believe in your packet you have a copy of my study. And I've
been studying this issue now, impacts, diminution of value, whatever
you want to call it, for about 25 years. I've studied it from Leon
County up in Tallahassee all the way down here to Naples.
I want to point -- I know we're looking at time here. I want to
point out three -- I want to call your attention to three areas in my
report that you might find interesting. Number one, just north of
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here at Poinciana Elementary School, there's a cell tower. Just north
of that tower, there's a community on Coachhouse Way. There's
about 13 upscale houses in that development.
I've been studying that for about three or four years now, and
they are selling and reselling. And I've spoken to each of the realtors
in there. That tower has had no impact whatsoever on those property
values. There's no impact whatsoever.
The second one I've looked at, I call it Lord's Way. It's east of
Collier Boulevard. Florida Star's doing developments in there. Toll
Brothers is now doing Seven Shores. You're probably familiar with
that development, about 400 houses in there. It's in the
shadow -- these two, three developments are in the shadow of a
350-foot-tall tower. It's a guy-wire-supported tower. It's been there
for many, many years. I'm sure you're familiar with it.
Toll Brothers has had no impact from that tower on the sales of
their home packages. Milano Lakes, which is the apartments, there
have been no impacts on the rents there. And now they're building
another 394 units in there. I mean, you can practically reach the
tower.
And I've talked to the professionals with both these
organizations, and this tower has had no impact on their sales. And
it's a good example of a developer, you know, willing to take the risk
of developing a property within, you know, close proximity to the
tower, and you'd think if it would have impacts on values, they would
be concerned about that.
The third thing I want to talk about is I have talked to every
single property appraiser from Leon County all the way south to
Naples, Collier County, all the way over to Polk, Orange, Seminole
County. Not one property appraiser that I've talked to has ever made
a reduction in a property assessment due to proximity to a cell tower,
including two of your own that I've talked to, Bill Hawk and Darren
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Jones.
Moreover, you can't find an example where a property owner
has gone to a municipality to argue that their assessment has been
reduced because of a tower.
So I think that's pretty, pretty important information. You ask
yourself, "Well, how can that be?" Property appraisers like me, they
deal with market data, and there's just no market data to indicate that
towers have impacts on surrounding residential values, rural values,
or even commercial values.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I've got a couple little points here.
Like the generator, I know we had concerns talking about
generator noise, things like that. I mean, the generator itself, more
than likely is not going to run unless there's a power outage and/or
during a test phase, like, once in a while to test itself, it fires up. Is
that pretty much --
MS. JAHN: This is Mattaniah Jahn, and that is correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. And the other one is
have you spoken to the Sheriff's Office or any other emergency
services that -- because -- use of the MDU, mobile data units?
Because people aren't familiar. I believe they're on the Verizon
network.
So, like, when they do anything, traffic investigations, traffic
accident reports, any type of traffic enforcement, it goes through their
MDUs. And it's not like the Motorola like we've been discussing in
the past. It actually uses the cell towers. Did you get any feedback
on their coverage in that area, or is this going to benefit?
MS. JAHN: I know that public safety is looking for additional
cellular service in that area. They've stated that publicly.
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Unfortunately, I don't have specific follow-up for this site today, but I
do have official communication where they've said they have interest,
and Mr. Bosi can confirm that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And the third is, I realize this is
a very, very low trip count type of facility that's going to be built
there. I mean, you said three -- possibly three trips a month, which
it's probably less than that in reality.
But I think during the construction phase -- is there a possibility
that there could be a temporary access from the Everglades side
during the construction phase, and then that's just eliminated after the
fact once it's built and up and running?
MS. JAHN: Let me ask Mr. Dye. I do know that the
construction itself is very similar to a house, but if I -- from the
volume of construction traffic. So it's not like you're trying to build,
you know, some huge -- it's not like you're trying to build a Walmart
or something like that where there's loads of construction traffic.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I would assume there's some
sort of crane devices and that for setting portions of it, and that would
tie up, unloading and loading and, you know, things of that nature.
They're going to probably pull from the road or close proximity to the
road for those items to be, you know, set in place.
You know, I don't know the exact -- how you build a tower but
I -- you know, kind of in my mind I see that certain times things will
be delivered on long trucks and things like that.
So I'm just spitballing if that would help the community a little
bit. Then they wouldn't have that traffic during the construction
phase tying up the intersection on their road, so...
MS. JAHN: Absolutely. And if I can just circle up with
Mr. Dye real quick, I am 90 percent confident the answer is yes.
I have Mr. Dye with me.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Just let him speak. You don't have to
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ask.
MR. DYE: Sure. Derek Dye on behalf Bridger Tower Corp,
1951 East 400, Lecompton, Kansas.
The question regarding the construction access, we do have an
agreement with Mr. Moran to come in across the back of his parcel, if
that's necessary. The actual time of construction typically for a cell
tower like this is no more than about 18 to 20 days of boots on the
ground, minus the wall. The retaining wall's going to take a little bit
of time. But 18 to 20 days over about a 90-day window is the actual
time of construction.
MS. JAHN: And just to -- if I may, Mattaniah Jahn.
Just to clarify, you said "retaining wall." Did you mean
compound wall?
MR. DYE: Sure. The stone compound wall.
MS. JAHN: Thank you.
MR. DYE: Sure.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So to answer Commissioner Kowal's
question, there is a possibility to get a temporary entrance on
Everglades during construction?
MS. JAHN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great. Thank you.
I don't have any -- I mean, there's no perfect place to put a
tower, and it's going to -- you know, it's going to bug some, and it's
going to help some. And considering the conditional use that's
before us, I have no problem with this. It's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They've got to be
somewhere.
CHAIRMAN HALL: It's looked like there wasn't -- it looked
like it was going to extend coverage for the people that live out there
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quite a bit from all three carriers, and according to the one guy, the
other tower, if we do put one out there at our government facility,
that's a mile and a half out there. That would enhance the northern
portion more than that, so...
It's your district.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I know.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You got a better spot?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. I don't --
MS. CADET: They haven't even showed us the drop cell
signals.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We're discussing now. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You know, there again,
there's no good -- there's no good place. There's no good place. We
need them. We have to have them.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We're getting beat up for not
having them is actually what is happening.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On top of all that.
You want me to make the motion?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm sorry.
I'm going to make a motion for approval.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I'll second it.
MR. KLATZKOW: Did you want to add a condition that
construction will be off of Everglades?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yeah, we can make that condition. That
will be --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I'd be happy to do that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So the motion to approve with the
condition that the temporary --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hang on a second.
MS. COOK: Jaime Cook, your director of Development
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Review.
Development Review issues all the right-of-way permits on all
the county roadways. Looking at the aerial of that property, where
they would be able to access off of Everglades Boulevard is right,
one, where the road widens, but also would be on top of that northern
neighbor. So that person would be subject to all of the construction
noise, trucks, and everything else. It would actually probably be
better to come off of 31st.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I guess my question is, does
noise trump backed up traffic on a dead-end road?
MS. COOK: The other thing that I would -- I'm certainly not
their construction team, but their construction team may need to be
making -- if they were going to come in off of Everglades, make
U-turns. From -- if they were coming from Oil Well, they would
need to make a U-turn to get to that access point off of Everglades.
That would also be a safety consideration for any trucks, heavy
equipment coming through.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's certainly easier for the
construction to come in and out off of 31st. And if it's only a
less-than-30-day construction time, then that's not going to be -- that's
not going to be as prohibitive as the U-turns coming in and off of
Everglades.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Right, I agree.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Coming down and going.
So I'll lift the restriction on the access off Everglades.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. So we have a motion and a
second to approve it as presented. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: So moved.
MS. JAHN: Thank you for your time today.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. It's 1:23. We're going to
break for lunch. And let's be back at 2 o'clock.
(A luncheon brief recess was had from 1:23 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, County Manager.
What have we got next?
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 10A. This is a
recommendation that the Board approves the proposed interlocal
agreement and bylaws of the Southwest Florida Regional Planning
Council. This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And he's --
CHAIRMAN HALL: William McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And he's down here trying to
figure out how to sign into this new computer and not happy about it,
so...
Let me -- I'll give a brief explanation, if I may. I think I shared
with you, if I haven't, a couple of months ago I was elected as the
chair of the RPC, the Regional Planning Council. The Regional
Planning Council is in dire need of restructure, and we're going to
begin that process.
The first portion of that restructure is a -- and I've supplied, I
hope you've read, the draft MOU and the draft bylaws that I wrote
two years ago for this organization. The previous chairman of the
RPC and the executive director made a stab after this -- after
these -- after these rewrites were done to get ratification by the other
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members. There's a total of six counties in the RPC, and we're not
successful in getting any of the counties to ratify the new set of
bylaws, the new MOU with regard to the RPC.
The current trajectory.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Trajectory.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, trajectory -- trajectory.
I was leaving an R out.
The current trajectory of the RPC is heading for the ditch, to say
it bluntly. I received a report from the auditor back in May, and
based upon the known expenses associated with the RPC and the
known revenue streams that the RPC has, there's about a year and a
half left before we have to fold it up, and there won't be any money.
The proposed MOU that I brought for you today -- the previous
MOU allowed for a 30-cent per diem to be paid by the counties that
are a member of the RPC. I reduced that to 50 percent, or 15 cents
per diem per head, per population of the county, and then I split those
payments up quarterly.
Because one of the issues -- and Commissioner LoCastro can
verify this, but one of the issues is relevancy with the -- with the
individual counties that are a member of the RPC and the electeds
spending taxpayer money in this organization.
So my thought was cut it to 50 percent of the original amount
and then split those payments up quarterly to then allow the electeds
that are voting to make these expenditures or make this contribution
to the RPC to show validity and actually provide for relevancy.
If I can just jump back a second. Governor Scott reorganized
the old Department of Community Affairs way back in the day. And
when he reorganized the Department of Community Affairs, he
relegated then the RPCs, the Regional Planning Councils, to an
information disbursal organization. No more authority. It used to if
you were doing a Comp Plan amendment or a DRI, you had to bring
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your proposition to the RPC and receive approval.
Governor Scott took away that approval authority, and the
previous board of the Regional Planning Council wasn't interested in
giving up that authority even though state law had changed, and they
no longer -- as they called it, they no longer had the hammer.
So I rewrote the bylaws. I squashed the membership down
from a very voluminous amount. There was close to 50 members of
the RPC, and I brought that back to just two county commissioners.
By statute we have to have two county commissioners and then one
municipality within that -- that particular county at first, and that just,
then, allows me to -- us to reorganize the RPC, at which point, since
there is no longer any authority coming for DRIs and Comp Plan
amendments, there's no rationale to not have all of the municipalities
be a member of the RPCs because predominantly the RPC is now an
information disbursal organization.
So having said all that, the proposition in front of you here today
is a rewrite of the bylaws and a rewrite of the MOU for the
contribution.
I will then, assuming -- with this board's blessing of that
quarterly contribution, I will then take this to four of the other
counties who have not been contributing to the RPC in their per
diem -- in their per diem requisites per the old MOU.
So I'll individually go to each one of those -- there's four other
counties that are not participating in the payment or contribution to
the RPC, and I'll individually go to each one of them and ask them to
adopt this same draft revised bylaws and revised MOU, and then
we'll have a discussion as to whether or not the RPC gets to continue
to exist or not.
It's a -- it's a fact that you can't exist without revenue streams,
and per the interpretation of the statute, it's a voluntary contribution
by the membership of the RPC. It's a voluntary contribution.
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Sarasota -- I think I've been on the RPC now eight years, since I
became a commissioner. Sarasota, about year one into my tenure on
the RPC, decided they were going to leave the Southwest Florida
Regional Planning Council and join the Tampa Regional Planning
Council because they felt that that RPC better fit their needs.
At the same time, they stopped paying. And then Lee County
was looking around, and Lee County said, "Well, geez, if they're not
paying, we're not going to pay." And then Charlotte said, "Well, if
Lee's not paying and Sarasota's not paying, we're not going to pay."
And we kept paying, by the way. For my first three years, we kept
paying our 110,000 a year to the RPC because of the Promise Zone
initiative.
If you'll recall during President Obama's tenure, there was a
Promise Zone initiative, Rural Promise Zone that was put in place to
provide for additional points and the grants system at the federal level
for economically deprived communities, and that rural Promise Zone
designation got bequeathed to the RPC but covered Immokalee, all of
Hendry, and Glades County.
And so I kept leaning in and asking our board to continue to
make its contribution just to hold up the RPC, the Regional Planning
Council, in hope that relevancy would then transpire. Well, it didn't
transpire. And so, ultimately, I even acquiesced and withdrew our
contribution.
So this is my rendition of allowing the RPC to continue to exist,
and I promise that if, in fact, we adopt this, I'll go to the other four
counties that are outside of the contribution side and ask that they
accept this as a revised MOU and set of bylaws, and then we will
begin the reorganization of the RPC.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So what does the RPC actually do?
You said it's an information disbursal thing now, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, Chairman, hardly
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anyone can argue the necessity for regionality of communication. I
recall early in my tenure in the RPC the existing bylaws and
constitution of the RPC regulates developers when they're -- when
they're conducting a DRI, a Development of Regional Impact, or a
Comp Plan amendment, to come to the RPC and receive approval.
Well, no longer is the RPC requisite to give that approval. They
never adjusted their bylaws or their MOU or their constitution in
order to take away that hammer, as I spoke of earlier.
So one of the reorganization plans that I have, first off, is
establishing a funding mechanism so the organization can exist
longer than the year, year and a half that we have, number one, and
then, number two, is along with the commissioners who are
members, I'm also going to ask that a planning staff member attend
these meetings.
I remember early in my tenure, the executive director drug in a
developer from Sarasota who was doing a Comp Plan amendment in
Sarasota, and I remember saying, I'm barely qualified to render an
opinion on a Comp Plan amendment in Collier County, let alone one
that's going on in Sarasota, but my planning staff needs to know what
Sarasota's doing, because when Sarasota's doing a DRI or a Comp
Plan amendment, that's going to have impacts on our traffic capacity,
infrastructure capacity, and so on and so forth.
A perfect example -- the subdivision's name just -- the Babcock
Ranch. The Babcock Ranch is in the southeast corner of Charlotte
County out on State Road 31, but all of the infrastructure to support
that development is down in Lee County. Well, Charlotte County's
up there licking their chops and picking up all this new ad valorem
money, and Lee County's sitting down there holding the bag for the
road, services, jobs, all of the things that come along with supporting
a development.
So the goal here is reconstitute, re-brand, and reorganize the
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Regional Planning Council and allow it to do what it's supposed to
do, which is let our planning staff know as far as what other
communities are planning with regard to their growth and their
redevelopment.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So you need our blessing to move
forward to go to them?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm asking -- and with that
I'm going to make a motion for approval of this agenda item to
accept/approve these draft amendments that I've put in front of you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And as Commissioner
McDaniel knows, I'm sort of his partner in crime. I try to attend as
many of the meetings as I can or Zoom in. He's the chair.
And so to just make a long story short, I'll vouch for the
improvements he's working really hard to make in this council and
going around to the other counties that have kind of abandoned us.
And so he and I have both read the fine print, Commissioner
McDaniel especially, and we were both at the last meeting in person
and talked a lot of specifics of this.
So, you know, this is the one thing we were nominated to
represent, and, you know, this -- these -- this proposed agreement
needs to be -- or has my full support as well. So I'd second the
motion based on having attended all the meetings, or most of them, I
guess I'll say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you have any questions
about those amendments that I brought forward? Those were just
my stab at not doing things the way that they've always been done.
Again, squirrel the membership back to a more manageable amount
number-wise and then bring the money back and allow the relevancy
to be earned.
Trust -- love is given as a human being. Trust and respect are
earned.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Earned.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so over -- we make these
quarterly payments. Now there's longevity added to the RPC at
which point, then, we can see the relevancy for knowledge base and
communication with our community as to what's going on in our
neighboring communities.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Motion and seconded. Any other
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go get 'em.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just so you know, from a
time line standpoint, I'll have this accomplished by end of the first
quarter next year. I will -- I will have met with -- and what I'm
going to do, just to add on, I'm not just going to show up and talk to
them for three minutes under items not on today's agenda. I will get
a commissioner from each county to champion an agenda item so that
I'm up there with a PowerPoint and talking and doing what needs to
be done.
Item #10B
AN UPDATE ON THE SELECTION BY THE STATE OF
FLORIDA OF THE ARCHITECT AND ENGINEERING
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SERVICES FIRM AND GENERAL CONTRACTOR FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A STATE VETERANS’ NURSING HOME
IN COLLIER COUNTY AND TO OUTLINE THE NEXT STEPS
IN THE PROJECT. (BURT L. SAUNDERS, COMMISSIONER,
DISTRICT 3) – UPDATED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item
10B. This is a recommendation to receive an update on the selection
by the State of Florida of the architect and engineering services firm
and general contractor for the construction of a State Veterans'
Nursing Home in Collier County and outline the next steps in the
project. This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner
Saunders.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just wanted to bring the Board up to date on a couple of
important things that have happened and give you a little bit of an
outline of a little bit of a schedule. The Florida Department of
Veterans' Affairs and the design team, they're going to be
meeting -- they're going to have a staff meeting here on October 9th,
and that's just for staff. That's just an all-day planning meeting to
move things along. But if they get here on time, they will come to
the County Commission meeting on October 8th. So if we have a
long meeting, they may be able to come and update the whole Board
at that point in time.
But a couple of things that have occurred that are positive in the
development of this. The Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs
has awarded a contract for the design work to the firm that has
designed about 15 of these nursing homes, HHCP and Orcutt
Winslow, they came down here and made a presentation some time
ago. They brought to us a bunch of different models. One of the
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models that we thought was really an attractive one was the Las
Vegas model. And so we've kind of designed our plan around that
model. We've only made it a lot better. But the good news is
they've designed about 15 of these facilities, and they're now on
board.
They also selected the contract -- the company that will be
the -- they call it a contractor at risk, management at risk, and that is
Suffolk, and Suffolk has some -- a great local presence here.
It's -- the construction management services had selected Suffolk to
be the Construction Manager At Risk. Suffolk, actually, donated
time and materials to the local VFW to remodel the VFW. And I
know a lot of you have been to some of the VFW things here. That
was all Suffolk, and that was all done by employees volunteering.
So they have a lot of commitment to veterans and have a real
commitment to this community. And so it was nice to see they got
that award to be the Construction Manager at Risk.
The -- part of the reason that they were able to go ahead and
select all of the professionals is that I had suggested to the Florida
Department of Veterans' Affairs that they speed things up by making
the selection of those professionals and making that selection
contingent on final federal approval. Normally they would wait for
federal approval, which could come in October, November,
December of this year, but normally they would wait until then, and
then they'd spend the next five months selecting the experts and the
team.
They've selected the team with the understanding that there is no
project if it's not approved by the federal government.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So that saves us four, five
months. We're just trying to -- trying to move things along a little
bit.
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I know JB Holmes -- Dr. Holmes is here, and he may have a few
comments. But I want to let the Board know that we may have a
visit from them here at the Board meeting on October 8th depending
on their travel and how long we go.
And so if you have questions, that will be a good opportunity to
have those addressed. But the good news is things are moving.
I've spoken to John Mullins. He's been in touch with some of
the folks in Florida at the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs.
We anticipate that there could be approval of this project as early as
October, possibly November of this year in terms of approval of the
project but not the funding that goes along with it. So if there are
any questions, I know John Mullins is here, and Dr. Holmes is here as
well.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I don't want to steal any of Dr. Holmes' thunder, but I'm a
member of the VFW, so we correspond a little bit more than maybe
the average person.
One of the ideas that came out of this board -- and I think it
started with you, Commissioner Saunders, and I really loved it. And
I'm just wondering if this is the time to start to move it forward or at
least make sure that it doesn't get forgotten -- was the idea of forming
a local veteran oversight committee. You know, it looks like the
Department of Veterans' Affairs is moving forward with a contractor.
There's a lot of movements happening. I think there's a tour coming
up maybe at the site, and things are starting to all converge together
in a really, really positive way.
As you know, we've had a few meetings at the VFW to get
feedback from veterans, to give them an update of what's going on.
And I just -- I like the idea of a local veteran oversight committee,
and Dr. Holmes can obviously, you know, help with that to get
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people that have the background, the professionalism so it's not just a
bunch of yelling and screaming, like we were saying about a different
topic earlier, so that we're armed with, you know, a short-to-medium
list of bullet points or concerns or great ideas. As we said at the last
VFW meeting, we're looking for those kind of things.
So I just wanted to sort of throw that out there. It just seemed
like it was a good time during, you know, the announcement of the
latest on the -- on the veterans' nursing home. So I didn't know your
thoughts on that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll address that in a couple
of different ways.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We have the veterans'
community center, and we're trying to determine what is going to go
into that community center. That's the vacant white building.
Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart has put $9 million into the House
budget for our project. That doesn't mean we get $9 million,
because you know the federal process.
But we are looking at what's going to go into that building.
And we have formed a committee of staff people. And I've started
adding people that have been involved with veterans benefits for
many, many years. So I've added two or three people to that
committee, and I'll continue to do that.
And in addition -- so there are going to be meetings -- as a
matter of fact, I have a meeting with them, I think, on October 7th.
I'll be meeting with that committee, again, trying to figure out what's
going to be in that, what county staff people are going to be moved
there.
But in terms of a veterans oversight committee, I do have
Friends of the Veterans' Nursing Home that I've had for a couple
years now, and there's some really heavy-hitting veterans on that,
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some folks that describe themselves as having funds, and there were a
couple that are generals and admirals. I mean, it's a group of people
that we can draw from for a veterans' oversight committee. And, of
course, Dr. Holmes would certainly be part of that.
But, yes, I think it's time to start thinking about it. It's not
something that's urgent, because we're going to be several months
away before we get any federal approval.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I don't want to put any words
in your mouth, but you just heard sort of the invitation might
be -- behoove you to either yourself or somebody that's at your level
to join this committee that's already been sort of behind the scenes
but doing an awful lot so that the right and the left hand, I think, are
sort of working together. That was my only point for bringing it up,
but I don't know if you have the floor or --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Actually, I have -- Mr. Mullins, if you can step up. Because I'm
just going to refer back to something that -- I just wanted to bring
some attention to it because I don't know if it's ever been corrected or
not or -- but if you remember, I sat in on, I think it was that meeting
end of July or beginning of August. It was the Zoom meeting. It
was actually the State's meeting with the feds, and you, myself were
also on their Zoom.
And I was dumbfounded that I actually had an opportunity to
talk to our lobbyist in Washington, D.C., a few weeks ago. And I
was just curious if we ever found out if -- there was kind of an error
or -- possibly by the young gentleman with the federal veterans'
administration. He said -- quoted something that our application was
an unfunded application, because there was a question where we fell
on the list. And I think the people in the State about jumped through
the screen was like -- and somebody needs to correct this. But do
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you know or have we heard anything since that meeting that --
MR. MULLINS: Yes. For the record, John Mullins, your
director of Communications, Government, and Public Affairs.
There was a little bit of confusion. Keep in mind, this is a
first-of-its-kind application ever in the nation building a 120-bed
skilled nursing facility and an adult day healthcare simultaneously.
In the past, the adult daycares have always been approved as add-ons
to existing facilities. So the approval process for this is kind of
being developed as the process commences.
So there was a little confusion as to whether or not there needed
to be two separate applications, one for the 120-bed skilled nursing
facility and one for the ADHC. They were initially submitted by the
State as separate applications. After that call, it was determined
what they needed to do was merge those into one, which they have.
So everything is on track. It didn't delay anything in the approval
process, and we still await that priority ranking list, which could
come any time after October 1st.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But he correct -- did they correct
that we are funded?
MR. MULLINS: Yes. Oh, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That was another thing that he
said, that they had no indication that it was a -- it had this --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. MULLINS: Proof of the State --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- group that's unfunded. And I
was like, well, we are funded for --
MR. MULLINS: Yes. Proof that the State had funding in
hand was provided to them, so they do have that, and everything is on
track.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You know, it's interesting
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dealing with the federal government. We filed the application. I
believe it was due on April 15th. We filed it the first week of April
and, fortunately, got an e-mail from the Federal Department of
Veterans' Affairs confirming the application receipt and an
application number. A month later, they advised us that we had not
applied. And so we sent them the e-mail with the number on it, and
they corrected the record.
So there's a lot of this type of miscommunication. None of that
miscommunication's been the fault of our staff or the Commission or
anybody. It's just been the federal government. We all know how
the federal government operates. So there was no surprise that they
sent us that message that there was no application on file, but we got
that corrected.
MR. MULLINS: And as you recall at the outset of this, this is
a unique project in that it requires constant collaboration and
cooperation between local, state, and federal governments
simultaneously. So there's any number of things that could go
wrong.
One other thing, too, to the point of an oversight committee,
please keep in mind -- and we've had issues with the media and
others getting this wrong -- this is a state project. The State hired the
contractor. The State hires the architecture. The State manages the
project. So if you do any type of oversight committee or something
like that, it probably would require the State signing off on its
applicability to that project.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Good point.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Well, one of the things that I have
learned recently is collaboration within the governments is
collaboration within the governments.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did somebody write that
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down? That was one of the most profound statements that I've --
CHAIRMAN HALL: I've learned that recently.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and
you -- maybe -- and you've been tapdancing around it, but is October
1st the date-ish when we're going to hear whether we get blessed by
the feds?
MR. MULLINS: Typically, with the start of the federal fiscal
cycle, that's when you would start to see some movement on this.
That doesn't guarantee that the list will be out then. As a matter of
fact, with a continuing resolution expected at the federal level for
congressional funding for many programs and agencies, it may be a
little while longer before that list is released. And to Commissioner
Saunders' point earlier, even though the priority ranking list may
come out, that doesn't guarantee congressional funding's going to
happen anytime soon thereafter. It may take a little while.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: At the end of the day, that's
where we're waiting.
MR. MILLER: We have one registered speaker today;
Dr. Holmes, Dr. JB Holmes.
DR. HOLMES: Commissioners, Chairman Hall, thank you for
having me here today. My name is Holmes, Dr. J.B. Holmes.
And I did want to speak to you briefly about the VA nursing
home and the formation of a veterans' advisory committee or
oversight committee, but much of what I needed to say has already
been said. The situation that I felt brought that up was that -- it
is -- as Mr. Mullins said, we're working that local level, county, state,
and federal level, and it becomes a little difficult and confusing the
information we receive. Within the county level, within the local
level, I'm personally working with the Collier County Veterans'
Council; the Veterans of Foreign Wars; the Marine Corps League;
Gulf Coast Veterans; Congressman Diaz-Balart; Senator Scott;
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Senator Passidomo; Suffolk, which we work with directly because
one of their higher-level managers is a member of the VFW; and, of
course, this august body, the Board of County Commissioners.
So getting all the information together in one spot, coherent
information, one source, one body, has been a little challenging, a
little challenging. We've heard a lot of conflicting information.
We've heard a lot of maybe information that's just plain wrong. And
I would -- therefore, that is why I wanted to propose a body, a
veterans advisory committee or a veterans oversight committee,
whichever title you wish to use. And I understand what Mr. Mullins
said, that that -- because it is a Florida project, that would need
Florida approval also. But I think that would still be -- it would still
be worth it. It would still be necessary.
So I just wanted you to know that Mr. McDaniel's comment, that
I give you my love, and I hope you have my trust and respect. And I
do just earnestly ask that we have that from Mr. Saunders -- from
Commissioner Saunders' list, which I helped develop -- and I think
I'm on that list, I hope, Mr. Saunders, Commissioner Saunders.
So anyway, I do just formally request that we form a veterans'
oversight or veterans' advisory committee to have one coherent body
of information that we can work with the County
Commissioners -- with the County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll work with you to kind of
create what the committee would be doing, because that would be
critically important because as John Mullins has said, this is not a
county project. It's a state and federal project. And so oversight
really isn't oversight. It's advice and that sort of thing. But we'll
work on putting something together, the membership and how many
people should be there, what their role would be.
DR. HOLMES: That's fine. Thank you, Mr. Saunders.
Thank you, Commissioners.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, JB.
Do we need a motion to accept the update or --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. Actually, we don't
really need a motion. It's just an update. Just I wanted everybody
to know that if you have questions, we may have some folks here on
October 8th that can answer those.
DR. HOLMES: I think I had 30 seconds left. So in that case,
may I ask that we be included in that October 8th or 9th meeting
that --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: October 8th is dependent
upon the members being here on time. October 8th, that
meeting -- the 9th, rather, that meeting is strictly their staff, so we're
not going to be involved in those meetings. We may have -- we'll
have some of our staff people that are involved with site preparation,
that sort of thing, but it's really not open to the general public. It is
simply the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs staff and our staff
working out some details. So I would say no, that's not really an
opportunity for the public to be involved.
DR. HOLMES: Well, I ask that -- I assume that you would be
on that committee.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I am not. I will get reports.
Mr. Mullins will let me know what's -- what is going on, but I will
not be part of that group. Again, that's staff people doing the
detailed planning.
DR. HOLMES: Thank you. Then I would ask that that report
information and Mr. Mullins -- Mr. Mullins furnish us with the
information that --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. We'll have --
DR. HOLMES: -- was discussed in that committee.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We'll have a report from
that. Mr. Mullins will --
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DR. HOLMES: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mullins.
MR. MULLINS: Actually, if I could add to that. One of the
reasons why this is a staff meeting -- pardon me -- in the past, FDVA
was kind enough to share the architect's preliminary plans, the floor
plans to the facility. Typically, healthcare -- floor plans of
healthcare facilities would be exempt from public records.
This meeting will be a roll-up-your-sleeves technical type of
meeting. They will be discussing several things that, from a records
standpoint, will be exempt from public records laws, and therefore,
we would not have the public necessarily viewing them out of an
abundance of caution to protect that information.
So just to let everybody know, it's all on the up and up. It's just
a staff-level meeting that basically has to happen in a little bit of
shade to take care of any type of public records laws that we would
be treading upon.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item #11A
APPROVE THE FALL TRUCK HAUL BEACH
RENOURISHMENT PROJECT AND AUTHORIZE TOURIST
DEVELOPMENT TAX EXPENDITURES FOR THE PARK
SHORE BEACH SCHEDULED FOR NOVEMBER 2024 WITH AN
ESTIMATED PROJECT COST OF $7,506,100.00; AND MAKE A
FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM (PROJECT
NO. 90067). (ANDREW MILLER, MANAGER - COASTAL
MANAGEMENT PROGRAM) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
KOWAL– APPROVED
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MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item
11A. This is a recommendation to approve the fall truck haul beach
renourishment project and authorize tourist development tax
expenditures for the Park Shore Beach scheduled for November 2024
with an estimated project cost of $7,506,100 and make a finding that
this item promotes tourism.
Mr. Andrew Miller, your manager of Coastal Management, is
here to present.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Thank you. Andy Miller, your
Coastal Zone manager, at your service.
Our project is in Parkshore. We've got about 167,000 tons of
material to get on the beach. And if you have any questions about
the project, I'm happy -- I've got a couple slides we can go through, if
you'd like.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Just basically, Mr. Miller,
what -- from -- what's the southern boundary to the northern
boundary, and how much -- how much is it going to raise the beach?
MR. ANDREW MILLER: I'll go ahead and pull a couple
slides here. This is a good picture of the project. What you see at
the bottom of the screen is kind of a thick purple line that has Naples
Cay at the -- what is north, and you'll see that the project extends
beyond Naples Cay by about a thousand feet or so over into the beach
in front of Outer Clam Bay, and then the southernmost point is down
closer to Doctors Pass at a facility -- or at a condominium called
Lausanne. And they have two towers. This is the south tower. So
that's the north and south. And as far as raising the beach, it brings it
up to an elevation -- the permitted elevation is elevation 4.3 or so, but
it -- in a sense, it gets us the width as well as the height.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Gotcha. All right. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: One of the things I want to
say is Andy presented at the TDC that I chaired, and we got into a
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little -- a lot more detail to make sure that we were getting best bang
for the buck. We were really shaking down contractors for the best
deal for sand and a bunch of other things, and he had all the right
answers. So I'll just -- I'll just keep it brief and just say that I really
appreciated your presentation and how hard you've worked to make
sure that we're expending these dollars wisely and, you know,
properly.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Miller, I'm assuming that the blue line on here is the
inbound for the haul?
MR. ANDREW MILLER: You can barely read the lettering.
I tried to label it as best I can. You get lost in all the color. But the
blue line is the outbound to I-75, and the red line is the inbound.
And this was -- we worked this out during the truck haul berm project
a couple years ago with the City of Naples, and it worked out quite
well.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's the same one where we
kind of come through the park where we had that private road, they
let us use that, or is that the --
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Well, this is up at Horizon Way, up
in Parkshore. And so what the truckers do, they come in on Golden
Gate, they go north to Park Shore Boulevard [sic] and go out to Gulf
Shore Boulevard, then down to Horizon Way, southward, and then
they dump their sand, come back out, and then go south. They take
a right on Gulf Shore Boulevard back to Harbor Drive, and then back
to 41 and back to Golden Gate Parkway and out to 75, and it
minimizes the amount of trucks that cross each other's path as well as
the typical traffic on the roadways.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Where's that adjacent to the two
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new hotel projects that -- you've got --
CHAIRMAN HALL: It's north. It's north of it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Rosewood's going to be that, and
then you've got Four Seasons.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Those are to the south.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Those are further south?
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Those are to the south. South of
Doctors Pass, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Just as -- and I'm
going to put you on the spot here. And I just want to say this: My
quick math calculation, this was close to $66 a ton placed sand
plus/minus in that realm.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you recall when
we -- when we dredged the Marco River and pumped the sand for
Tigertail what the cost per ton was?
MR. ANDREW MILLER: I vaguely remember the consultant
for the city talking about a 10 or 11 dollars --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, 12. It was about $12.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So the point -- the point that
I'm making here right now is -- and you've heard me say this before:
Width, breadth, and depth create volume. And we need to
regularly -- and that's part of the job with the RPC is to work with our
other counties, our sister counties up the coast to begin a maneuver
away from the sole source -- the sole sand that we have out offshore.
There's only one mechanism that can bring the sand from the -- from
the EPA or the DEP's designated sand source, and that's called a
hooper dredge, and that hopper dredge can only haul about 20
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truckloads at a time.
And we really need to begin the lobbying process of developing
a sand source that's closer so that we can pump our beaches on a
regular basis.
One of the things that we do know is the turtles -- we have to
re-nourish our beaches when the turtles aren't laying, and so they lay
different times here than they do down on Keewaydin. They
lay -- and then it moves on up the coast as well as far as a different
time frame goes. So that's one of my efforts that I want to see the
RPC become involved in is beginning the process of adjusting where
we're getting our sands from so we can have a more equitable
placement of sands coming from offshore and not having the in-haul.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Can I add something to that,
Chairman?
One of the things that I commonly get from citizens is,
especially when it relates to Tigertail -- and you probably read we've
done some repairs there, and then every time there's a storm, there's a
little washout area, and it's all -- and then you fix it again, you know.
If you let nature take its course, that place will be, you know, totaled
in, what, a couple of years.
You know, Andy you're all part of these discussions. But a lot
of times we get suggestions from people, "Why are you moving
around all this sand? Just bring out a bunch of rock there and, you
know, protect the beach that way?" And it's the turtles. You can't
put rock all up and down the beach because the turtles will walk, and
then they'll be "Where's our home?"
And I get, you know, experts who say, "You guys are so stupid
wasting all this money on sand, you know. You should care more
about the environment". And this or that, and it's like, you know,
your head explodes when you read these e-mails. But it's those very
things. You know, we're not dumb or stupid. We realize how water
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moves and how sand moves, and every time, even when there's
excessive king tides or whatnot, sometimes you have washout areas.
It's all part of living in a beach community. And, you know, you
have to have this in the budget.
And, yeah, you can fix it with big, giant 50-foot walls like we
saw the Army Corps of Engineers suggest that we maybe do
somewhere up and down, you know, Naples Beach and, of course,
we'll never do that. You know, we're trying to keep the natural look
not only of where we live but also to allow wildlife to come and go
and use the beach as well.
So when you mentioned the turtles, I just wanted to add that,
because I'm sure we'll get a few e-mails saying, "Oh, my God, you
know, more money on sand that's going to get washed away in the
next storm."
It's like, well, but this is what you have to do when you live in a
community such as ours. There are no easy fixes, because they have
other consequences like, you know, turtle habitats, and plenty of
other things as well. But, you know, there's the expert right there at
the podium that knows that, but I wanted to just add that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So we have 4.1 million right now to do
that from TDT monies, and then we're going to be reimbursed when
we make the application?
MR. ANDREW MILLER: That's what we hope. We hope we
get about 42 percent from the State for these projects.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Good. All right. I make a move --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Move for approval.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved and seconded. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Done. Thank you.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11C is a recommendation to direct
the County Attorney to advertise --
MR. MOGIL: I had put in to speak on 11A.
MR. MILLER: I'm sorry. I had it in the wrong spot. That
is -- my apologies. It was in the wrong folder here.
11A, H. Michael Mogil. I am so sorry, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Do you want to speak against it?
MR. MOGIL: I want to put some insight into it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
MR. MILLER: My apologies, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: No worries.
MR. MOGIL: Second time I've stayed late that I've been
excluded.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Getting the message yet?
CHAIRMAN HALL: It's a sign.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It won't be the last.
MR. MOGIL: I'm sure it won't.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Troy, you're not getting a
fruit basket from this gentleman. It's not coming.
MR. MOGIL: It's okay.
MR. MILLER: I don't think he's getting you one.
MR. MOGIL: I'm coming back anyway. I don't care.
My name's Mike Mogil. I live in Naples. I've been here since
2005. I've been through three hurricanes. I'm a meteorologist
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because I lived in New York and hurricanes fascinated me when I
was nine years old, so I know hurricanes.
The item that we're talking about here is doing a piece of the
beach. And I'm not sure how that piece of the beach interfaces with
other projects up and down the beach, because interfacing is really
important to how the waves come in and interface with the beach.
It also links to what we're going to talk about in December, I
guess, with the Corps of Engineers' project for the coast in terms of
how Collier may interface with Lee and when that project gets done.
So I would just like to know from a historical
perspective -- these beach projects, these beach renourishment
projects have been going on for a while. This one says, "Life of five
years barring any significant storms." What's been the history of the
beach nourishment projects? Have they lasted five years or not?
That's one of my questions.
You answered the question about where the money is coming
from. Does any FEMA or other federal money come in here to do
beach nourishments? I'm not sure about that.
Is there anything that happens after a hurricane where the federal
government comes in and says, "Here's money to replenish your
beach"? I don't see the federal money in here, but yet we did have
some beach erosion in the last couple years due to Ian.
A separate item based on what I heard this morning from Sheriff
Rambosk is we want to make sure that the trucks that go through
Collier County follow the rules. It seems to me that if we award this
money to a contracting company, we should put something in there
that says, "Make sure Rambosk talks to them about truck safety." It
seems like a good way to get that message out.
The last thing is, though, for the December meeting -- and I'm
big on this, and it's not always done. And I'm going to just ask this
question: Are you guys aware of the libraries in terms of all the
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visual displays in the library that announce library projects and
everything? If you go into, like, Orange Blossom library, there's
displays all over the place that says, "We're going to have this
meeting this week," "This group's going to have a meeting, library
show, et cetera."
Why on some of the key items here where we need public input,
like the Corps of Engineers come December, that the commissioners
don't interface with the libraries to make sure that notices are on
those public displays and get people to come? I mean, some of
the -- what do they call -- charrettes were held at libraries in the
county. It seems to me that that's a great vehicle for getting
information out, not just about that project, but about other things that
may be important to the commissioners.
So I just want to make sure I put that there. I've given up my
day, but I did have a trifecta, so I'm thrilled, and I shall be back.
Thank you for --
MR. MILLER: My apologies.
MR. MOGIL: They're accepted, but I'll be back. I'm sorry,
"I'll be back."
MR. MILLER: Commissioners, I'm happy to answer a couple
of the questions at your pleasure.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. My comment had to do
with one of the things that Mike talked about, and that's something
that I would like to see us move. I've lived -- moved towards -- I've
moved here -- I've lived here for 43 years. And the sporadic nature
of our beach renourishment has always frustrated me. And we
oftentimes don't -- if we weren't continuously renourishing our
beaches on a far more regular basis, the degradation when, an
inevitable storm does come, would be far less.
So one of the goals that I want to do is join with our sister
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counties to the north and provide for a regular renourishment process
that's just ongoing all of the time in advance of an inevitable storm
event.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, just for clarification, we
do survey the beaches -- the public beaches every year to determine
the areas that need renourishment. If we had more than one segment
in a year, we'd be renourishing, likely, more than one segment.
It's to keep the beaches to their standardized template for both
elevation and width, which there are some places where those are
slightly different. But if we had a survey come back in a year that
we had experienced extreme loss of beach due to winter storms or
whatever, then Andy could be faced with having to renourish
multiple segments of the beach in one year.
When we get to this discussion with the Corps, that may give us
a different approach not only by partnership but also because the
Corps would ultimately then be responsible for those renourishments
and potentially could be looking at a different time frame and way or
renourishing up to and including a larger dredging project and
expanding the template of the beach.
Andy, if there's anything else you want to add.
But I just want to be sure that the public understands that we're
not picking and choosing the segments of the beach that we're
renourishing; that we're renourishing the ones that are required to be
renourished, however many that may be, or years where -- a better
year when it's not required at all.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There again, intuitively, my
rationale was just a continuous renourishment provided for higher
and wider beaches so that when that inevitable storm event did
transpire, we were already prepared for it; we weren't necessarily
coming in after the fact with our survey data and renourishing here or
there. And there is a good interface between these surveys that are,
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in fact, done on these different segments.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Thank you.
Item #11C
DIRECT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ADVERTISE AND
BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AN AMENDMENT TO
ORDINANCE 2023-71 TO REMOVE ROADWAYS THAT ARE NO
LONGER UNPAVED, ADD UNPAVED PRIVATE ROADWAYS,
AND ESTABLISH AN OPT OUT PROVISION. (TRINITY SCOTT,
DEPARTMENT HEAD – TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT
SERVICES DEPARTMENT) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
All right. That brings us to Item 11C, a recommendation to
direct the County Attorney to advertise and bring back for a public
hearing an amendment to Ordinance 2023-71 to remove roadways
that are no longer unpaved, add unpaved private roadways, and
establish an opt-out provision.
Ms. Trinity Scott, department head, Transportation Management
Services department, is here to begin the presentation or discussion.
MS. SCOTT: I'll be brief. I have to give credit to
Mr. Klatzkow. He was able to turn around an amendment to the
ordinance based on our discussion at the last meeting. And we are
here today asking you for permission to advertise the ordinance, and
it will come back at a later meeting for actual adoption.
I will tell you, one item that was not included in here, because as
much as I like to be a miracle worker, I could not be, which was
turning around the taxable values for the 79.302 miles adjacent
properties.
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But I have corresponded with the Property Appraiser, and they
have advised that they can get that information back to us in about
four weeks. We've already distributed it over to them so that they
could get started on that, so...
With that, we're seeking your permission to advertise the
amendment.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So -- and with that note, that
was what I wanted to share. When we brought this item forward for
the countywide MSTU, plus/minus, there was about -- at 1 mil, there
was about 280- -- somewhere around 280-, 290,000, and we'll get an
actual update with regard to what that taxable value is. And just to
reiterate, today we're just advertising -- or approving the
advertisement of this ordinance, and then the heavy lift will come
about 30 days from now or so when we bring this item back for its
ultimate approval.
So I'll make a motion for approval.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: It's been moved and seconded to
advertise this ordinance. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go put it in the paper.
Item #11D
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CONSIDER TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX MARKETING
(CATEGORY B) GRANT AGREEMENTS ($78,000) AND NON-
COUNTY OWNED/OPERATED MUSEUMS (CATEGORY C-2)
($672,000), FOR FY 2024-2025 AND PROVIDE DIRECTION TO
AMEND OR APPROVE AS PRESENTED, AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE AND MAKE A FINDING THAT
THESE EXPENDITURES PROMOTE TOURISM. (JAY TUSA,
DIVISION DIRECTOR - TOURISM) - MOTION TO APPROVE AS
PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
(COMMISSIONER HALL OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 11D, and this is a
recommendation to consider tourist development tax marketing,
Category B, grant agreements and noncounty owned/operated
museum, Category C, for FY 2024/25, and provide direction to
amend or approve as presented, authorize the Chairman to execute
and make a finding that these expenditures promote tourism.
Mr. Jay Tusa, your division director for tourism, is here to
present.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Excuse me, Jay.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. Jay, let me just set
the table for you just to -- I just wanted to tell my fellow colleagues,
they remember a little bit more than a year ago your predecessor
sitting at this podium and bringing us a long list, some of the numbers
kind of robust. And when we were asking questions about the
application process for grants, you know, some of us, including me,
didn't love the answers. You know, it just seemed like, you know,
tongue in cheek, you could put something on the back of a cocktail
napkin, and if you got $100,000 every year, you automatically got
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$100,000 the next year.
So what we said was, in fairness, because it was sort of a real
last-minute, that we would approve the list as-is a year ago, but that
moving forward we wanted him to -- immediately upon approval last
year to get with all these organizations and let them know, you know,
it's not Christmas anymore; that we want an aggressive application
process. Every year is different; that we want them to justify not
only what they're asking for, but how hard they're working to raise
money as well and not just relying on the county. And if they don't
get the full amount that, "Oh, my gosh, you know, it was money we
were automatically counting on."
You know, I'm here to tell my colleagues that at the last TDC
meeting, we went over this list in great detail. In nearly every single
instance, we are giving slightly less money and, in some cases, a bit
less -- more than a little bit less to organizations because you also did
a great job putting together a much more robust application process.
And also, I was really impressed with -- when I said, "What was the
blowback from the organizations," you know, your team said, "You
know everybody understood they had a year to prepare. This wasn't
a big shock."
So I will just tell you that the list -- not only -- and it's not a
matter of just squeezing organizations and giving everybody less just
because we want to. In the TDC meeting what we talked about is it's
about best bang for the buck. So if we normally give somebody
100,000 but maybe we think they only qualify for 75- this year, now
we have 25- to maybe give to a new organization.
And the beauty of the list is -- and I forget what the number is.
And I won't steal your thunder; wait till you talk. But there are quite
a few new organizations that have never applied for grants before that
now got grants, and we had the money to actually, you know, do it.
And so, you know, we had a much longer discussion on this in
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the TDC. And I was impressed with every single answer, the way
you and your staff aggressively went about this and how you also
held to task these organizations who are benefiting from this.
Like we said, this isn't a donation. This isn't a handout. It's a
grant. But you need to be working as aggressively as we are and
weaning yourself, maybe, even off of these funds. And we went
through that all in great detail. I just wanted to sort of set the table
that -- what this -- what these five commissioners directed a year ago
happened.
And I was very pleased, you know, with the list and how the
wealth was spread a bit more and, most importantly, how all these
organizations had to aggressively qualify and -- what's the word I'm
looking for -- substantiate or, you know, in more detail clarify why
they needed a certain amount, what they're going to do with it, and
also what they're doing on their end to raise funds as well to balance
out and maybe, as we go further along, offset what they were getting
in the past, not that it was an automatic gift.
So you -- I'll turn it over to you, but I just wanted to say that,
and how we did a deep dive at the last TDC over this list.
MR. TUSA: Thank you, Commissioner. I appreciate
that -- that insight and kind of a little bit of a refresh for everyone for
last year. I was not here last year, obviously.
But, you know, staff, I think, did a great job in listening to the
Board and direction you gave last year in kind of relooking at the
program. You know, I walked into that as the process was wrapping
up this year.
You know, we looked at everything when we evaluated the
grant amounts and the recommendations to the TDC council. So I
certainly appreciate your comments and staff's work on all this before
I walked in the door and, obviously, you know, with my tenure in the
past six months being here.
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So I do think that, you know, the remarks and comments of the
Board resonated with staff, and we certainly look to address those
concerns moving forward.
So I can walk you through a little bit about the grant process this
year. So today we're talking about two grants that fall into the arts
and culture realm. One is Category B, marketing, and Category C2,
the noncounty museums. So this year we received 17
applications -- a total of 17 applications. Eleven of them were for
the noncounty museums, one more than last year. So kind of
echoing the comment that Commissioner LoCastro just made is, you
know, if we kind of look at our dollars, then maybe we can have
more dollars for other applications.
We had 11, one more than last year, and then for the marketing
grants, we had six applications that we received, and that we received
three more -- three new applications submitting for the first time this
year.
So the noncounty museums totaled 672,000 this year, and the
marketing grants totaled 78,000, so that's a total of $750,000 this year
that we're proposing versus last year it was at 824-, almost 825,000.
So you can see we had a reduction in about 9 percent in overall
spending for these grants and what we were proposing for this year.
So I think that will kind of, you know, resonate with the Board
and certainly, you know, the direction to, you know, take a look and
see about sharpening the pencil and making sure these dollars are
working appropriately for Collier County.
I can walk you through some of the changes that we made this
year if you'd like. I'm certainly happy to do that, or if you have any
questions about that, or if you have any questions about the
individual grants, I'm certainly willing to entertain those as well.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: The only thing -- I don't
know that you need to walk us through it unless -- I mean, I don't
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want to speak for my fellow commissioners. But one of the things
we also said at the TDC is this isn't just about promoting tourism.
We have citizens that go to these museums as well. So sometimes
when people think we're throwing money at things so we can fill the
roads and the parking lots and the beaches and all that and bring all
these people from Miami here, as sometimes we're accused of doing,
this is also reinvesting money into our own community so that our
citizens can enjoy all the amazing things that all of these culture and
art centers and everything else in between do. And sometimes that's
lost. It's not like we're investing in this just for the tourists. So, you
know, it's an investment in Collier County. It's not an investment
just in tourism, as sometimes it comes off to be.
But I don't know if my colleagues need a deeper dive or if they
have any questions. But, you know, we had a marathon TDC, right?
Our TDC meetings go really long, but --
MR. TUSA: It did go long last meeting.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we got a lot of positive
comments from the other board members that really appreciated the
deeper dive that we're doing and things like this and others. So I'll
just -- I'll end it there and see if my colleagues have any questions.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was going to say, why don't
you go ahead and make a motion. I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'd like to -- unless there's
any questions, I'd like to make a motion that we approve this grant
money as outlined.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second it, and with a
compliment to staff, because I was the chair last year, and you heard
the message, and I love the review that's, in fact, transpired.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Well, I'm going to take a different
approach. I said last year that I wasn't interested in forwarding this
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money. I'm fundamentally opposed, and here's why: I think that
we collect TDT taxes for tourism, not for our local people that -- to
attend fun events.
And when we set in a little over a year ago with our
budget -- this doesn't have to do with the General Fund, but it's
principally the same -- we were willing -- we said that we were
willing to do the hard work and that we were willing to make the hard
decisions. And year after year, these grants have been coming
forward to these same organizations. Regardless of how they apply,
they get it. Regardless of what they do with the money, the monies
come to them.
And that may have been a great idea out of the recession, and it
may have been a great idea to boost the economy and to get people to
come here. I think because it was a good idea then, it may not be a
good idea now.
Last year I honored the commitment that the former tourism
manager made, and I said, "I'm going to honor his commitment"
because it was expected, "but next year don't come with your hand
out," and I meant that. I didn't change my mind in the middle of the
stream because the application changed.
To me, TDT monies ought to support our infrastructure, our
beaches, our bathrooms, our amenities, our parks, our water features.
And when those are done, then we can take a look at what maybe we
have access to do with.
This list is for private entities. It's for non-for-profits, and
they're the same ones over and over. It's the arts. And I'm -- I love
the arts. I attend the plays. I take my kids to the museums, and I'm
not -- I'm not -- it's not what this is about.
Why don't we give money to Seed to Table? They're a tourist
attraction. Why don't we give money to Grow Church? They're a
non-for-profit. I mean, where does -- where does this end or where
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does the rationale begin?
I think we're looking for reasons to spend monies that we've
collected when the basic thought really should be, if we get our
infrastructure corrected and if we're doing all this correct, why are we
collecting so much tax anyway? Why don't we be a less-tax
destination to bring people here, or we could offer no tax for X
amount of months to boost the economy or to boost tourism.
I'm not saying I want to do that, I'm just saying, why collect so
much taxes if you're just looking for ways to spend them?
I'm trying to be a paradigm shifter here. I'm trying to make
people -- I'm trying to get us to think just a little bit higher elevation
than what we are normally looking.
I'm all about giving small amounts to brand-new people that are
getting started. The soccer team is a great example of that. They
need some advertising. They need some marketing money to get
people here to build their team, to build their clientele, and they get it.
They've asked for three years, and they're out.
Mike Dee, another example we're going to talk about here in a
little bit. He's phased his -- he's phased his marketing support out
from the county and is willing to pitch in his capital to build -- to
build a county asset, and we're going to talk about that. But that's
just an example of people that get it. They don't come year after
year expecting something from the taxpayers. They -- they actually
are putting in to county assets, building county assets.
I struck -- also, with -- with the Paradise Sports Complex, with
the soccer team, with the pickleball people, their results are very
tangible. They can say we've got 50,000 people that came to Collier
County because of this event. These are the hotel rooms. This was
the amount of monies that we raised from the tax. And that's -- I
love that because it's tangible. It's not fuzzy numbers that, you
know, you just assume.
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And these grants -- sorry, Terri. I'm -- my brain's faster
than -- my mouth's faster than my brain.
The assumption that if we spend these monies and we give these
monies to these museums and to these entities, the assumption is it's
going to draw tourism, and that's a great assumption, but it's not
provable. It's not -- it's not something that we can just grab
our -- grasp our hands. These are great things to attend once people
come.
I question that the majority of the people -- I'm not going to say
anybody, because I'm sure that there -- somebody will come because
they want to go to the opera here. But the majority of people will
attend these -- attend these museums and these non-for-profits and
these other things when they are here, when they come. And that
would be what I would lean toward is they're not coming because of
these but they're attending these because they're here already.
I don't want to be the guy that just rains on everybody's parade.
I just want to say think about it a little bit differently.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's sprinkling right now. It's
sprinkling.
CHAIRMAN HALL: But as it is, I mean, we've -- so we
reduced the amount 9 percent, you know, everybody claps, "Yeah,
we reduced it." It went from 750- to 672,000. We did a great job.
You know, kudos to us. I think that's a bunch of bull.
And so that's really all I'm going to say about it. I'm just
fundamentally opposed to it. I'm not opposed to taking the new
people and boosting their -- boosting their marketing efforts. Like,
you know, let us help you out here. Let us give you a little bump in
the butt to get you some people here and to get yourself established
and to get going. I love that idea.
So with that, Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
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So you said -- and I can respect what you're saying, you know,
trying to think at a higher level. I'll just say I do think I think at a
higher level, and I couldn't disagree with you more on this.
Those museums you enjoy with your grandkids could actually
disappear if they didn't have a little bit of investment from the county.
And you may not care, but your grandkids might. This is part of
what makes our community different, to add culture in some areas.
You can't compare the Marco Island Historical Society with the
soccer team, the Marco Island arts. We've got Hyla Crane here.
Her organization brings -- does bring an incredible amount of culture
and all the other things that go with it, but, yeah, it doesn't fill up
5,000 seats to watch the soccer game. So that's apples to chairs.
These organizations aren't cash cows in many respects, and that's why
they look to these tourism dollars.
One thing that you did say that I think does have merit, and it
also is part of the conversation we're having about Conservation
Collier, are we collecting too much money in taxes? You know,
we're taxing our citizens and collecting money at a much larger
amount than what we actually need. I think that's a different
discussion.
Nobody's saying "yay" and patting themselves on the back
because they went from 800,000 to 700,000, but I like the trend. I
don't think you can go from a Mach 10 to a dead stop. And the
signal we've sent to these organizations is, "Hey, we're going to
continue that trend." I'll take 9 percent every year, and you know
why? Because I could name 10 things right now that the county
wastes money on every signal day and spends 10, 20, 30 percent
more, and I don't see the impact, and we're attacking those things.
So I really applauded the commissioners and the County Manager for
that.
But I think the thing that makes Naples different isn't always a
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cash cow. Everything isn't Great Wolf Lodge. But there are things
that add to our community, and not just to bring in tourism. But I
want to -- you know, when I eventually have grandkids, I want to be
able to go to Hyla Crane's museum whether it's a cash cow or not.
But I want it to be there. And there are some communities that don't
have the amazing, you know, art and cultural type of things that make
us unique, that make us different.
So it's not always about, well, you know, is her museum as
important as the soccer team? To me that's apples and chairs. But I
think having all of it is what makes our community diverse, which
makes it interesting, which does attract tourist but also makes it a
great place during the non-tourism season to live and work and play.
And just as you said, you know, you enjoy bringing your kids.
I can tell you Seed to Table's not going to go out of business if they
don't get money from us. They're a for-profit and doing great, and I
go there and you go there.
But -- you know, I know the point that you're trying to make, but
some of these things that we help to keep -- and not afloat. Some of
these -- Hyla's museum's not going to go out of business if she
doesn't get a grant from us, but the grant makes her amazing piece of
Collier County that much better, and we invested in that with the tax
dollars we get. And we're so fortunate to be a county that gets that.
I agree with you -- it's a separate discussion -- are we collecting
too much in taxes? But, you know, like you said, you'd rather it go
for the beaches and this and that. We just approved tourism dollars
to go to the beaches. So, you know, we can walk and chew gum at
the same time. We can do -- we can do multiple things with these
tax dollars, and I believe we are.
And I'm not screaming from the mountaintops that we had a 9
percent decrease, but you know what, over the years before I was a
commissioner here and maybe before some of the other ones were
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here, nobody was challenging the TDC to make a dent at all. And so
finally, you know, we ResourceX'ed it, and we're now trying to head
into a positive direction. And so -- and I know that trend will
continue.
So I think the arts are important. I think a lot of times they're
not self-sustaining because they're not cash cows. You know,
everybody wants to walk into a museum for free. Well, no one's
printing money in the basement, and so they're not
revenue-generating at times the way a soccer team is or the way Seed
to Table is, and so that's where, you know, Jay, you have to do your
due diligence and make sure that, you know, organizations that truly
can benefit from our county's investment to keep them as -- to keep
them a part of the heart of this community I believe is extremely
important.
And I think when you're the TDC chair next year, and you will,
you might have a little bit of a different approach when you see the
benefit that these tax dollars bring to our community and how much
more we're able to do in our community to bring to tourists and
citizens alike because we have the luxury of having these tax dollars.
Whether it's too much, we're overtaxing people, I think everybody up
here agrees, we want less taxation, less government, and all that.
But that's another argument that we're -- another discussion that we're
having.
But I see great value in this, and I want to bring my grandkids to
museums, and I don't want them shut down because they went out of
business or because the price of admission now is $85, you know, so
that they can stay open because, you know, we'll lose a lot of culture
in this area. And we are blessed, you know, to be able to have these
dollars to do things that a lot of other communities, you know, can't,
so --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Well, I don't think Artis Naples is going
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anywhere. I don't think the brand-new Gulfshore Playhouse, the
brand-new building's going anywhere, so that was my point, and my
point about if we collect 44-something million dollars a year in TDT
funds and we spend about 7 on beach, and we throw a million their
way, that's -- you know, we're less than $10 million. So there's
$34 million, and that's -- that was my point. It's -- I can count to
three. I mean, I'm not going to -- I just wanted to put it out there and
let you know that fundamentally I'm opposed to it, and that's fine.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you know,
Commissioner LoCastro had a very apropos statement, and that is
you're about to get a force feed with a firehose when you come out of
being chair of our chair and onto the chair of the TDC, number one.
Number two, the history that Commissioner Saunders and I have
watched with the -- with the TDT monies have never been
questioned, and then -- until we came along, it was just kind of sort of
rubber stamped all along the way.
Now, there is a considerable increase in transparency and
accountability and what the benefits of these investments, as
Commissioner LoCastro called them, do, in fact, come back to our
community both in room nights and meals and entertainment and so
on and so forth, number one.
Number two, maybe at some stage we should have a discussion,
a quick agenda item with the statutory requisites of what the
pennies -- each one of the pennies can be spent on. You know, we
look at this gross amount of $50 million, or 44 million, whatever the
actual number is this year, we look at these numbers, and it's a very
voluminous amount, but there's categories for each one of these
pennies that can and cannot be -- things it can't be utilized for.
So I think maybe for -- even for edification of the public, we
might -- we might have an agenda item sometime in the near future
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just to reiterate what those -- what those, in fact, statutory requisites
are.
I completely concur with you with regard to the reallocation of
those fundings investing back into our infrastructure, parks and rec,
beaches, and so ons and so forth. That would be a huge lift if we can
actually accomplish that. And it may be a requisite of adjusting the
tourist development tax statutes to allow for the expenditure of those
statutorily designated pennies in different areas.
So I understand your principle. I understand completely your
principle, but I've seen strides that we have taken as a Board -- since I
took over as chair last year, and now you have it -- in providing for
transparency which then allows for accountability with the folks that
are, in fact, receiving these funds.
So I'm not going to ask you to change your vote. Like you said,
you can count to three. We're done beating this one.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, it's always been a unique situation that we have here that
we spend $44 million of somebody else's tax money, you know,
because this is all collected through bed tax through tourism. It's not
like our citizens are staying in hotels paying this bed tax. These are
people that travel here to spend time here in our jurisdiction, and the
money's collected from them. So it's not really even our citizens
we're taking this money from. But we do have the luxury to divvy it
out, you know, in certain ways, and statutory we're driven certain
ways to how we can use it or can't use it.
I know -- I'm sorry if -- I apologize. I can't remember the
organization, but I know soon after we had the last year's meeting,
the county gave them the marching orders and said, you know, "This
is what's important. This is what you need to do."
You had an event at the Naples Players, I believe it was, at the
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auditorium there, and I had the luxury to attend it and sit in on it.
And I know the whole idea of the event was for the groups, these
organizations that do participate, was finding out ways to collect this
data so we had hard numbers and raw numbers and doing surveys
during their events to see who actually is staying here in the hotel,
who actually came, you know, from out of town, things of that
nature.
And I don't know -- you know -- and I even stood up and said
"Listen, this is what the Board wants to see in the future, because
we're no longer rubber stamping this money." I think -- at least
while us five are here, I think that's the way it's going. That's the
direction it was going.
And, you know, I said it and I meant it, that this was probably
what you needed to do, you know, and it was important. And I don't
know -- because I'm not privy how your guy's meetings went,
Commissioner LoCastro and Jay, I don't know. You know, was
there a lot of more information brought forward with these
organizations, you know, and taking those marching orders back
then?
Because I know you were there also, right, with the county. So
I just don't know, you know, because I felt that that was the right
direction. And that way, Commissioner Hall and myself that's new
to this, can actually see, you know, real hard numbers and what's
actually happening out there instead of just, you know, having
somebody say, "Oh, this is what's happening here. Give me my
money," you know.
So I -- you know -- and, you know, this is probably a
Commissioner Hall type comment, but you don't eat an elephant in
one gulp. We take small bites, you know. So I think we did take a
little bit of bite here and there off this elephant from last year to this
year. We have some new people participating. So I think as we
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keep moving forward, I think these are the things that we're still
going to need to see from this group of citizens that operate these
organizations that -- you know, that we are taking it seriously, and,
you know, it is not the same old board up here, at least for the next
two years.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. All right. We have a motion
and a second.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we have public speakers.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Oh, public speakers.
MR. MILLER: I'm going to encourage the speakers to queue
up and use both podiums for time. Your first speaker is Kit Baker,
to be followed by Steve Nagy.
MR. NAGY: I rescind [sic] my time.
MR. MILLER: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, you did. He ceded his
time to Kit, so Kit will be followed by Sandy Mahler.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's two mistakes today.
MR. MILLER: I know. I'm done. Cut my pay.
MS. BAKER: Good afternoon. My name is Kit Baker, and I
work for United Arts Collier, which is the local arts agency
designated by the State of Florida to roll up some of that
income -- impact data that you have been looking for, and we're
pleased to do that every time that the national studies are done and
provide you with that information.
I had the opportunity last week to attend the Tourism
Development Council meetings where presentations were
illuminating statistical analysis of tourism showing a 7.9 percent
decrease in our county but not necessarily in parts of the state where
creative industries are stronger.
There was also discussion, as mentioned earlier, on reserve
funds accumulating in accounts that are not being spent to mitigate
these strategies, and the arts community responded to that by
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proposing robust programming and marketing efforts to contribute to
the county's success.
Data reflected that travelers were choosing other beach
destinations, destinations with diverse offerings of experiences,
including the arts.
So how does our arts community stack up to other parts of our
state? Last month, United Arts Collier commissioned a study on
how our creative industry looks compared to others around the nation
and the state, and the way that that study was done was by coming up
with the number of cultural activities and events that are ticketed and
measurable in that way compared to the population growth that has
occurred in our county.
This study pulled data gathered from national sources such as
Economic Modeling Specialist International, National Assembly of
State Arts Agencies, and the National Center for Charitable Statistics
based on most current data available. The results show that our
community's population has grown, and our arts sector has grown.
And yes, we have a new Gulfshore Playhouse, but the ratio between
that has not improved our standing as a community, and our arts
vitality index is still lower than the national average. This includes
theater, music, visual arts, cultural events, and performing arts.
Turning to today's opportunity to invest tax monies into the arts,
we're talking about a grant award that represents less than 2 percent
of the overall tax revenues that had been submitted at 1.5 million
overall in applications and has now been scrubbed down to 750- for
innovative programming, marketing strategies, and audiences that
will not only buy tickets to the events but also spend money on
hotels, restaurants, travel, and generally creating a return on
investment through tax revenues locally, state, and federal. And we
also employ a lot of people who live here, work here, and travel here
for their gig employment opportunities.
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I propose to you as a body of -- as a commissioner body to
consider the work done by the TDC staff in reducing the grant 1.5 to
750- and having had the opportunity and responsibility to review
each application carefully and make recommendations as they did.
I'd also propose that as an arts coalition, we come back to you in
addition to providing impact data, but do a presentation, as other
bodies that you award money to, on what we've done in a year. And
I'd love the opportunity to work with you on that.
Thank you for your consideration.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Sandy Mahler. She'll be
followed by Hyla Crane.
MS. MAHLER: Hello. Thank you for having me today. This
is my first time, so bear with me.
My name is Sandy Mahler. I am one of the copresidents of the
Naples Art District. And we are a non-profit organization which did
receive a grant from you last year which helped us tremendously.
This body in our organization is made up of artists. We are all
full-time working artists, and we create our own work as well as
present events throughout season as well as fundraisers. We do
three fundraisers a year to try to raise money for our marketing and
advertising and the administrative services that we have. But
mostly, it is volunteer operated by our artists. We have very little
funds that go towards administrative.
And we all apply ourselves to this organization. And we have
105 of us at this time. But if you know anything about artists,
they -- you know, we are building inventory. We are always being
creative, and we need people to always be working in our
administration field to help us grow.
And last year the money that you guys gave us helped us build
on our website, and we hired an advertising team that could help us
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stay on target to reach more with tourism and the locals, and it helped
us grow tremendously.
So we are looking -- we're hoping that you will give us
something towards this year because we are still in need of
administration help at this time. And we've got -- we did
implement -- over the summer we have recognized -- we're taking
this into a new direction this year where we were mostly focused on
tourism events, but now it's become a year-round art district that has
always been, but it has not been promoted as such.
And so we're spending more money in the summer. We had a
couple of events, one in July, one in September, and we have another
one in October. And we found that there was between 450, 550 eyes
on the art district through our digital advertising. And we actually
brought in several hundred people at each of those events, so -- and
they were successful, and we're bringing resources into the county
with the arts this way.
It is -- we give classes -- I'm sorry. I know I'm running late.
We give a lot of classes, and this is one thing that people come back
here to Collier County for.
I, myself, am a teacher, and I find that my students, a lot of them
will tell me, thank God you guys have all these artists down here in
this area. We don't have anything where we are from, and this is
why they come back to this area. They love the arts. They love
being a part of it. And it is very helpful to the community.
Thank you for letting me speak.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Sandy. You did good.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Hyla Crane. She'll be
followed by Elysia Dawn.
MS. CRANE: Good afternoon, Chairman Hall and the
commissioners.
As was said, my name is Hyla Crane, and I'm the executive
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director of the Marco Island Center for the Arts of the Arts Center
Theater. We are the only arts center and the only community theater
located on Marco Island.
We've discussed the reasons why -- to approve this allocation of
tourism tax revenues to the noncounty museums and art
organizations, and the reasons for those include improving the quality
of life because art makes the communities more welcoming and
desirable and attracts families, travelers, and businesses. It
strengthens community because art helps to bridge divides, builds
trust in government, and creates a safer, healthier community. It
improves the economy. Art creates jobs, stimulates commercial
traffic, strengthens local economies, and promotes tourism.
Now, the Collier Convention Bureau has trademarked Collier as
Florida's Paradise Coast, and the arts play a role in making this
county paradise.
Collier County produces performances and art exhibitions of
high artistic excellence, and these elements are what sets Collier
apart, perhaps our unique capacity, especially when paired with our
beautiful beaches.
Public support for the arts is important. Studies have shown the
economic impact and vitality of arts and culture. A recent survey
from the American for the Arts showed the return on investment was
9 to 1. So for every dollar invested, the return is $9, and that's quite
a positive impact.
Now, Marco Island Center for the Arts and the Arts Center
Theater isn't as large as some of the other organizations that could
potentially receive this funding, but even so, in 2023 and 2024, we
offered 217 events, provided 692 virtual performing and teaching
artists opportunities, and served 25,126 children, adults, and seniors.
Why do I know these numbers? Because through this grant process,
we have learned to track our data. We have been meticulous with
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our metrics. We now can look at that not-so-fuzzy ROI and know
what we are achieving in the work that we are doing. This was an
incredibly rigorous grant application process. We are proud to be a
part of that.
We are an employer. We're an economic driver, because the
arts mean business.
On behalf of my board, my members, my volunteers, my
visitors, my patrons, we hope we can count you on.
Thank you very much for your time and attention, gentlemen.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Elysia Dawn. She'll be
followed by Alice Van Arsdale.
MS. DAWN: For the record, Elysia Dawn, executive director
of United Arts Collier.
I want to start off by saying thank you, Chairman Hall and
commissioners, for all that you do to serve all of us in Collier
County.
As you're considering your support of our county's arts and
culture sector and how that impacts our community at large, I'm
grateful to have an opportunity to share with you some results from
the study United Arts Collier conducts in collaboration with our arts
and culture organizations in Collier County and in partnership with
the national organization Americans for the Arts which helps
demonstrate the positive impact the arts have on our community as a
whole.
The arts have a positive impact not only on human services for
our county, such as benefiting our children's educational outcomes as
well as our physical and mental health, including the children,
veterans, and seniors UAC provides free services for, they play a
very important role in our economy.
Our most recent study found last year that the arts generated
nearly $150 million in economic activity for Collier County,
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supported about 2,000 jobs, included over 1,500 volunteers,
generating a value of 1.4 million in volunteer civic engagement
hours, provided about 107 million in income to residents, and
generated over 29 million in tax revenue to local, state, and federal
governments. 3.9 million is local revenue.
The more our revenue of our arts -- the more revenue our arts
organizations generate, the more revenue they generate for our
county.
Arts visitors are also high-value visitors. When people attend
an arts event, they often make an outing of it, going to a restaurant,
paying for transportation, enjoying dessert after the show, and
returning home to pay for pet or childcare. These dollars represent
vital income for local merchants and restaurants.
When it comes to how the arts strengthen the visitor economy,
40 percent of our 1.3 million event attendees in Collier County were
nonlocal visitors who traveled from outside Collier County to be
here. Additionally, 45 percent of the nonlocal attendees reported
that the primary purpose of their visit was specifically to attend the
arts event where they were surveyed.
People come here not only for the beauty of our fabulous
beaches but to experience the beauty of our arts and culture as well,
especially when the weather doesn't allow for beach time.
Without these marketing grants, our organizations would not
have the funds they need to draw visitors to our county and help
generate this valuable revenue.
I strongly urge and humbly ask you to please consider how these
crucial grants affect not only the arts organizations here but our entire
economy. We would be most grateful for your help keeping our arts
and our greater community thriving.
Thank you very much for your past support and your
consideration for this year's support. We really appreciate it.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Thanks, Elysia.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Alice Von Arsdale, and
she will be followed by Jonathan Foerster.
MS. VON ARSDALE: Hi. Good afternoon. My name Alice
Von Arsdale. I'm delighted to be the vice president of development
at Artis-Naples.
I'm glad to have this opportunity to address you-all today to
express our ongoing gratitude for this grant program.
These funds continue to have a tremendous impact on each
organization represented here today, our programs, and our
wonderful growing community. Artis-Naples, we feel a great pride
in the creation and presentation of over 800 deeply inspiring and
unique cultural programs each year.
This season, Artist has applied for grant support of two exciting
programs. This includes the popular Naples International Film
Festival which will be occurring at the end of October, as well as a
blockbuster exhibition at the Baker Museum focusing on the
influential Mexican-American -- excuse me -- Mexican-Canadian
artist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer, on view December through June.
We know these programs are deeply moving to both our local
and visiting patrons, and we anticipate tens of thousands of visitors
across both programs. This engagement speaks to the universality of
the arts and how it motivates individuals to connect and understand
one another but also how resources like these are often the deciding
factor when it comes to choosing a vacation destination and a new
home.
To address and assuage some fears and concerns about this
application process, we take our application implementation and
reporting very seriously. We are no stranger to it with our
government grants from the local all the way up to the federal level,
as well as private foundations. We relish the opportunity to prove
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impact and to underscore it. That is the entire prong of my role is to
do that with not just you-all in this room but also with our private
donors.
We as non-profits, are stewards of these funds, transferring that
into real impact in programs and opportunities.
We work very diligently to be clear about where we are
spending these funds. We track attendance meticulously and
closely, as Hyla mentioned, and we can record who is coming into
our halls.
We do feel and we do know that we are an asset to this
community. We have been in this community for over 30 years
now. And despite our size, which I know was mentioned, you know,
every non-profit operates within a hair's breadth of a balanced
budget. We are no stranger to having to be nimble to that. We
didn't get to where we are without being nimble. We have a
dedicated group of fundraisers that work very long hours, especially
during season, to seek fund from various diverse revenue streams.
But to Commissioner LoCastro's point, you know, we do feel
that this partnership yields really strong and tangible results.
So as we think about the community and the many priorities that
are needed to keep it such a vibrant place to live and visit, we know
how much you have to review. We are really grateful for your
thoughtful consideration to award funds to these organizations who
are dedicated to serving our shared community.
Thank you so much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jonathan Foerster. He'll
be followed by Melanie -- is this Kalnins?
MS. KALNINS: Sure. That sounds right.
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know how I feel.
MR. FOERSTER: All right. For the record, Jonathan
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Foerster. I'm the CEO of the Golisano Children's Museum of
Naples. And before I start, I want to say thank you to the
Commission and the county for its years of support.
I know that that's one of the concerns that we have here. So
there's a couple points I'd like to just go over that Commissioner Hall
and Commissioner LoCastro made earlier. The first is revenue
streams, right? I make $8 per person that visits my museum. It
costs me $17 to keep it open. So I've got to make up that money in a
lot of different ways, right? And I've gotta write grants. I've got to
ask people for money. I've gotta hope that they see the value in what
we're doing just like I hope you see the value in what we're doing.
And I think that's our biggest -- the thing that we offer as
nonprofits is that we have to provide value, or we go out of business.
We can't -- we're not here by someone's -- perhaps there are museums
in the world with a wonderful benefactor who gives them all their
money and says, "Go forth and do whatever the heck you want. We
don't care."
We have -- we have to be responsive to our community. We
have to do the things that our community wants to see. And one of
the things they want to see are the travel exhibits that you-all help
support. We bring in exhibits from outside museums, as per the
grant proposal, and we do that so that there are more people that want
to come to our community.
We spend money advertising in Miami. Why am I advertising
in Miami except for that it's part of the TDC process? And the hope
is that there are some folks that are visiting in Miami that see our ad
about what we're doing, and they bring their kids, and then they stay
and have dinner, they get a hotel room, they stay for a couple days.
They stay longer because of arts and culture.
The second thing is the transparency part of it. I think
Commissioner LoCastro brought up, have you guys tried to get
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money from our esteemed Clerk of Courts, Ms. Kinzel? It's a real
hard process. By default, right? It's really hard.
I have to print out the bank statement, I have to print out the
thing for my -- that my accountant said paid it. I have to give them a
copy of the check and the purchase order all for each individual
expenditure that we come through to get that money. So we're -- we
are beyond transparent to the point of paper-thin see-through. It's an
impressive amount of work that we have to do in order to get these
funds.
So I do appreciate the rules that are required to do that, because
we want to spend your money well, and we want you to know that
we're spending your money well. I don't ever want that to change.
I want to jump through all of those hoops because I want you guys to
feel confident that however I spent that money and however my
colleagues spent that money, we did it above board, and we did it the
right way.
And the last thing is about people not necessarily coming for the
arts themselves. There is probably no good way to say that
specifically. But what we can say is they stay longer. They spend
more money in the hotels because they stay five days instead of three
days. They stay a week instead of five days. They stay a month in
an Airbnb, and they pay those taxes so -- because they have so many
different things that they can do with their families, so many different
things that they can do for themselves to enrich their lives.
And, yeah, we get to spend, as Commissioner Kowal said, some
other people's money to enrich our community. It's a privilege to be
able to figure out how to use those funds as best we possibly can, but
we get to make Collier County a better place thanks to the people that
have come spent their money here.
And so I appreciate all you guys do. Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Melanie Kalnins. She'll
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be followed on Zoom by Susan Suarez.
MS. KALNINS: Thank you so much. Yeah, Melanie Kalnins.
I'm the recent executive director of Opera Naples. I joined a month
ago. Very excited to be in this position.
I thought I would first start out with just sharing a little bit of my
own personal experience from before I moved here to Naples, as well
as giving you a little bit of more Opera Naples perspective.
So I moved from Chicago three years ago. My husband and I
moved down here with our family. The whole reason we initially
started vacationing down in Naples was because the Chicago
Symphony Orchestra played at Artis-Naples, and so we started
coming down here. And when we came down here, where did we
stay? The old Trianon, the Inn on Fifth, LaPlaya, the Ritz. Where
did we dine? Campiello, BALEEN, Hob Nob on Fifth Avenue. So
we actively were participating kind of in this tourist activity that
we're all talking about today.
So when we got down here, we started to learn about how there
were all of these other incredible orchestras from around the world
that would come and tour down here. So we thought, "Gosh, wow.
We're from Chicago." You know, we're used to huge culture
sophistication, and the fact that these orchestras are performing down
here -- but then we started to get to know more about the local arts
scene and how totally culturally vibrant it was.
So, of course, my husband also had a business interest in
moving down here, but certainly, a big part of the driver for us
deciding to move down here was the fact that even though Naples is
not huge, we have an incredible culture community. So that was just
a driver that I wanted to share with you as it relates to my own
personal experience.
But I also want to talk about Opera Naples specifically. So as
many of you have heard, the Luciano Pavarotti Foundation is very
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excited about partnering with us. They continue to expand their
partnership with us every year. And you are probably also aware
that the Luciano Pavarotti Foundation is looking to buy a 17-acre
piece of county land to continue to grow and expand its presence
down here with a beautiful opera house and a beautiful museum.
I think the fact that Nicoletta Pavarotti, the widow of the
legendary Italian tenor sees this town for its cultural excellence and
wants to build this here speaks to the fact that we, even on an
international level, have great cultural significance.
So I think -- you know, we've talked about a myriad of different
survey results that absolutely speak to the fact that we have hard data
that shows that hotel activity, restaurant activity absolutely is linked
to cultural engagement, but I think we can also see from my own
personal anecdotes that, you know, so much of the brand of this town
is not just the fact that we are an upscale beach and golf town, but we
really do have a great cultural community as well.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, our final speaker is on Zoom, Susan
Suarez.
Susan, wow, I see you've already unmuted. Please go ahead.
MS. SUAREZ: Thank you. I'm Susan Suarez, and I'm
president and CEO of the Holocaust Museum and Cohen Education
Center here in Naples.
To reiterate, every dollar invested in the arts generates several
times that amount in economic impact. Funding of the arts, the
museums, is not just a cultural endeavor but an economic strategy as
well.
The economic impact of the arts on our local community is
substantial, influencing employment, revenue, tourism, community
development, and investment. It's a multifaceted relationship that
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benefits not just artists and museums, but the community as a whole.
Our education program at the Holocaust Museum also benefits
our local students and teachers with field trips and in-school
programs.
Each year our operating expenses on salaries, printing, supplies,
utilities, insurance, all goes back into this community.
Tourist are drawn by exhibitions, performances, and festivals
and, as you heard, they spend money not just on the arts but also on
accommodations, dining, and retail. And this ripple effect benefits a
wide range of local businesses from hotels to restaurants to shops.
This county funding for marketing helps to leverage on our
small advertising budget to reach both tourists and locals. The arts
aren't just good for the soul. They're good for the wallet, too.
Thank you so much for your support.
MR. MILLER: And that was your final speaker on this item.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Good.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Jay, do you have anything
else to add?
MR. TUSA: I'll just make one comment. There's a trend in
the United States. It's called "passion travel," and it's what motivates
people to travel to go places.
And I'm sure everyone's familiar with Taylor Swift, right?
And, you know, it's something that I need to say. It's kind of
amusing, but I mean, people are planning their whole vacations on
going to see Taylor Swift abroad. I mean, they'll plan a European
vacation to go see Taylor Swift in Paris or in Roam or wherever.
And so it's really interesting that people are letting that form
their plans based on their passions. And so -- and that resonates with
people from a food perspective with restaurants and with sporting
events. You know, people, you know, going with their buddies to
see a college football game or professional soccer team. You know,
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so passion travel is a real thing in the United States. And so people
do travel for the arts, for food, for culinary experiences.
So I think that with us being able to support these organizations,
it does support tourism and then, ultimately, it does support, you
know, our residents from a cultural perspective, so...
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: One other thing I just wanted
to add as -- and like you said, maybe you can count noses, but our
libraries aren't cash cows but, you know, we're not closing the doors
on them because they can't self-sustain. And I look at the arts as
similar to what libraries bring into a community and with that.
But I think this has been a really good, healthy discussion. I
mean, I welcome it. And one of the reasons why, when I was chair,
I made the motion that I thought the outgoing chair should
immediately become the TDC chair because, you know, when you're
sitting in this seat here, you actually do have a little bit of a deeper
dive with the staff. You know, there's responsibilities in this job,
and I just thought that the TDC chair shouldn't be just the same
person over and over again. It was like the Supreme Court, "Till
death do you part;" that I thought that the most experienced and
prepared person, which I feel is the person who's exiting this seat
after a year, would be a very valuable, you know, TDC chair next,
and that we would all get a chance, and we'd rotate.
Because I remember being the chair of the Affordable Housing
Advisory Committee, and when I re-upped for a second year, I
remember shortly after that I thought, gosh, what a -- how much I'm
learning about affordable housing, but if I stay in this job year after
year, my colleagues don't get, you know, that sort of benefit, and
maybe their perspective would change a little bit.
But, you know, having said that, I've learned a lot in a short
time. I'm not sitting here saying give out free money and all this. I
like the way the trend is going to make folks earn it and also measure
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it.
The new application that John worked so hard on, your team
worked so hard on, like, I think, Ms. Crane or somebody said, you
know, "Hey, it wasn't just writing, you know, 'We need another
50,000 like we always get'."
So I think we are heading in that direction. And, you know, if
this type of money is needed for beaches or parks or some things that
we're not allowed to use but maybe we address that so that we have a
wider scope and we can do more with the money, I'm all for that.
But having said that, I'd like to -- you know, just especially as
the TDC chair, to confirm that I make a motion that we approve this
list as-is, and I'm looking for a second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I already did.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: There you go. Okay. Good
discussion, though, I believe, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just with one clarification. I
was the most qualified to take the chair of the TDC, not you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, Lord.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Rock, paper, scissors.
So I do want to get my fundamental question answered. Not
today. But I'm looking forward to coming and being a part of it.
I'm coming with an open mind. But when I get there, I'm going to
be looking for the fundamental question of why should public monies
prop you up.
Tom Golisano owns the Childrens Museum. He's one of
the -- he doesn't own it?
MR. FOERSTER: No. He donated $5 million 15 years ago.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. But he's got his name on it.
MR. FOERSTER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: He's one of our billionaires with his
name.
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So that's the fundamental question. It's not that I'm opposed to
the arts. I love the arts. But fundamentally, that's the question I'm
going to be looking for answers.
So we have a motion. We have a second. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
Me.
What's next?
Thank you, Jay.
MR. TUSA: Thank you, Commissioners.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item
11E. We're actually going to take Item 11E, Item 11F --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Oh, hang on just a second. Amy, we
need to take a --
MS. PATTERSON: Court reporter.
CHAIRMAN HALL: -- court reporter break. And it's 3:46.
We'll come back at five till.
(A brief recess was had from 3:46 p.m. to 3:55 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. What does that bring us to?
Item #11E
APPROVE THE THIRD EXTENSION AND AMENDMENT TO
THE SPONSORSHIP AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER
COUNTY AND SPIRIT PROMOTIONS FOR THE 2026-2032 U.S.
OPEN PICKLEBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS FOR A TOTAL OF
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$1,050,000, APPROVE THE EXPENDITURE OF UP TO
$1,000,000 FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AT ENCP,
APPROVE AN ALLOCATION OF UP TO $40,000 FOR AN
INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT STUDY, FOR A TOTAL OF
$2,090,000, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AGREEMENT, APPROVE ANY NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THE
RELATED EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM. (JAY TUSA,
DIVISION DIRECTOR - TOURISM, JAMES HANRAHAN,
INTERIM DIVISION DIRECTOR - PARKS & RECREATION) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: That is going to bring us to Item 11E,
which we are going to hear together with Item 11F and Item 11G, as
these all relate to pickleball. So if it's all right with you, I'll read the
three in, and then we have just some brief comments, and then we'll
go from there.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: The first, Item 11E, is a recommendation
to approve the third extension and amendment to the sponsorship
agreement between Collier County and Spirit Promotions for the
2026 through 2032 U.S. Pickleball Championships for a total of
$1,000,050 -- $1,050,000, pardon me, approve the expenditure of up
to $1 million for capital improvements at East Naples Community
Park, approve an allocation of up to $40,000 for an infrastructure
project study, for a total of $2,090,000, authorize the Chairman to
sign the attached agreement, approve any necessary budget
amendments, and make a finding that the related expenditure
promotes tourism.
Item 11F is a recommendation to approve and authorize the
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Chairman to execute a lease agreement between Collier County and
Spirit Promotions, LLC, for the East Naples Community Park and
Sugden Park for hosting the U.S. Pickleball -- U.S. Open Pickleball
Championships and the U.S. Open Pickleball Academy.
And Item 11G is a recommendation to approve the fourth
extension and engagement to Agreement No. 17-7152, Parks and
Recreation pickleball concessionaire with Pickleball Enterprises,
LLC, doing business as Naples Pickleball Center, to provide a
five-year extension through 2032, clarify agreement terms including
public use of courts, maintenance responsibilities, and utility costs,
and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached amendment.
Mr. James Hanrahan, your interim director of Parks and
Recreation, is here to begin the presentation. We also have Mr. Tusa
still in the room from the tourism aspects of things, and Mr. Dee is
here to talk about the private side.
MR. HANRAHAN: Thank you, County Manager.
Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, James Hanrahan, interim
director for Collier County Parks and Recreation.
I'm pleased to provide the Board with a comprehensive update
on the three key agreements concerning the East Naples Community
Park pickleball facilities. As the County Manager mentioned, I do
have Jay Tusa, Tourism director, and Mr. Dee, executive of
Pickleball for America, here.
I won't go over these again, but as the County Manager
mentioned, these are the three that we will be addressing, starting
first with 11E, which is the TDC sponsorship approval of the third
extension and amendment of the sponsorship agreement with Spirit
Promotions for the years 2026 through 2023 -- 2032. As we all
know, they currently have a one-year for 2025.
What's greater and new about this agreement is that -- and
Commissioner Hall -- Chair Hall mentioned it earlier -- declining
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sponsorship payments beginning with 345,000 in 2025 to 300,000 in
2026 and declining by 50,000 per year, phasing out in 2032.
Fifty/fifty shared funding for the construction of a waterproof
canopy and a public address system at an estimated cost of two
million. Spirit Promotions' commitment of one million, county
commitment of one million from TDT sources. Allocation of 40,000
in TDT funding for the required infrastructure project study requires
a supermajority vote.
And if you look at the top picture, it would be the white canopy
that would also be waterproof. Currently, the blue canopy we have
is not waterproof.
Going on to 11F, the lease agreement for Spirit Promotions for
the U.S. Open Pickleball Championships. The highlighted details
are the lease covers the entire East Naples Community Park
championship, which includes the welcome center, all open spaces,
indoor spaces, pickleball courts, designated parking areas, plus
Sugden for parking.
East Naples, we would receive 56,000 for rent, and Sugden
would receive 8,400 during the time, both with a 2.5 annual
escalation.
Spirit Promotions gets year-round access to a small office and
storage area in the welcome center.
And then now for the pickleball academy. Six to 12 courts for
the U.S. Pickleball Academy with an annual rent of 21,000, plus a 2.5
annual escalation, as well as 5 percent of the gross revenue paid to
the county.
The county will continue to maintain the public restrooms as we
already have contracted during the U.S. Open -- except during the
U.S. Open where they do it the entire time. They pay for all of the
cleaning service system.
Spirit Promotions is responsible for the cleaning and the
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maintenance of the East Naples premises and Sugden Park restrooms
during the U.S. Open Championship as well as maintenance of the
pickleball courts, nets, wind screens, fences, and courts resurfacing
for the championship and the academy courts.
And for 11G, which is the fourth amendment extension of the
concessionaire agreement, it would extend to five years, which would
match the other two agreements, to 2032, enhancement of service
levels to include expanded youth programs, better league and
instructions, food and beverage, including beer, seltzer, and wine;
$50,000 paid in utility consideration over the next three years, and
30,000 per year thereafter. Currently, we received 100 -- we
received $100 per month, so for a total of $1,200 a year. A
considerable increase.
Concessionaire responsible for maintenance of nets, wind
screens, court resurfacing, for an estimated savings of $600,000, and
greater number of courts six to nine, and hours of public access.
Currently it is 12 to 5. The amendment allows from 12 p.m. to 10
p.m. on what we're calling the P9 courts, the public use courts.
And that is the presentation. Like I mentioned, I have Mr. Tusa
and Mr. Dee here if you guys have any additional questions.
CHAIRMAN HALL: They're not going to help you.
MR. HANRAHAN: They promised they would, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. One quick question.
Go to the last slide, please. This was -- this was a slide before.
The one before we were talking about the utility bills.
MR. HANRAHAN: Okay. Point 3 on this one?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, that's the net
concessionaire -- oh, yes.
What are the utility bills? Do you have them segregated? Do
you know what the expenses associate with that is?
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MR. HANRAHAN: We are working on -- so the short answer
is no, but we're working on getting a separate meter for the welcome
center. So when the original contract was created, we did not have
the welcome center. So when I took over, I started looking at that as
well. And we worked with OVS and OMB to see. We're
estimating around -- with the addition of the welcome center,
between 25- to $30,000 additional per year. So that's where the
30,000 came, that once we -- you know, 5,000, then 15,000, and then
30,000 for thereafter.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Very good.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We have public comment.
MR. MILLER: Yes, we do, sir. We have three registered
public speakers. Your first is Nannette Staropoli, and she will be
followed by Paige Rhodes.
MS. STARTOPOLI: Good afternoon. Thank you for allowing
me the chance to talk about pickleball.
So I've been a resident for 30 years, starting in Lee County, and
now I live right around the corner from the courts.
I'm extremely involved in our community. I work here, I play
here, and I've sat on many of our boards.
Many years ago, when I was little, I started playing tennis -- and
I don't know why my voice is crackling, but it is. And 10 years ago,
I started pickleball, thanks to my father. So I'm at those courts
morning, noon, sometimes at night, in between my jobs, of course.
I've worked with everyone at that court from Jim Ludwig -- I
don't know where Mike Dee went -- oh, there he is -- Mike Dee,
Chris, and Terri. So I've seen what's happened over the years at the
courts. I've worked with them operationally. I've watched the
growth. I've played in the U.S. Open. I've worked with them.
And what I can say with great confidence is I'm excited to be part of
their team.
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I'm a consultant for the new group, and I've worked with all the
old group, and these guys really do get it. And I'm very excited to
be part of it. I'm excited what it does to our town, I'm excited what it
does for tourism, and I'm cited excited what it does for Collier
County.
That's all I have to say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
MS. STARTOPOLI: Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Paige Rhodes, and she
will be followed by Vincent Keeys.
MS. RHODES: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you
for this opportunity --
MR. MILLER: Could you pull that mic a little closer to you?
MS. RHODES: -- to speak with you today.
Sorry, usually people can hear me.
I am Paige Rhodes, the director of sales at the Edgewater Beach
Hotel and the Capri Inn. As a representative of the hospitality
community, I ask that you support today's agenda item concerning
the extension of the U.S. Open Pickleball Championship through
2032. This event brings increased visitors to our hotels during a
time that we historically see a slowdown after Easter.
We have seen the positive impacts of this event and have seen
increased occupancy year over year during the championship dates.
The addition of the waterproof canopy is essential to the continued
success of the event and will allow residents and visitors to enjoy it
as well.
I am excited to see the launch with the pickleball academy and
think this will be a positive addition for our residents as well as
attract more guests to our hotels during these times.
Having lived in Collier County for over 50 years, I have seen
much growth in the area. I understand that some may not want the
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growth, but I'm not sure that is something that government can
control or regulate. Instead, the county should look for ways to
bring in the growth that best aligns with residents.
By entering into this public/private citizen venture, the onus of
cost is shared, making it attractive to residents.
Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is Vincent
Keeys.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Vincent Keeys, pickleball
player?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Did I not know that?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Extraordinary.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Am I about to hear
something that I've never heard before?
MR. KEEYS: I've got a different hat on today, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: What the heck?
MR. KEEYS: So let me say it is a pleasure to be with you once
again. Vincent Keeys, the NAACP president of Collier County.
And as you guys know -- this is a lot of territory to cover. And
so believe me, Chairman Hall, Board members, it's a pleasure to be
back with you today to talk to you about the team. We only brought
three of us. But one, two, three, we're hoping to get on base, and I'm
just asking you guys to please support this. We always try and come
to you with all of the bases covered and money brought to the table.
So this private --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Public.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Public partnership.
MR. KEEYS: -- public partnership that we're asking of you I
believe would do very good for Collier County.
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And as you very well know, I wouldn't stand in if it wasn't good
for us all. And so I'm here today to lend a moment. We have been
with the pickleball operation, I don't know, Jim, for some years
now --
MR. LUDWIG: About seven.
MR. KEEYS: Yes, Indeed. And so it has been a pleasure to
serve. We love serving this community, and we want to continue to
do that with you.
So thank you for hearing me today.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thanks.
MR. MILLER: That was our final speaker.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Well, you know, this is -- East Naples Community Park and the
pickleball center itself falls within my district. And in the last two
years I've been a county commissioner, I've had the opportunity to
attend, the first year I was here, to the event and then the second one.
And seeing -- after Mr. Dee and his organization took over the
second one and the amount of people that just -- just the U.S. Open
itself was, like -- I want to say, like, 44-, 43,000 people came for that
event just over those few days. It was pretty impressive. It was a
pretty -- it was -- you know, it was just amazing how everything just
went off like clockwork. I mean, seeing all the courts going, the
people and scheduling, going where they had to go and being there
on time and getting the games done and getting the people to the
point where they all got their championship games.
But this is more than just, you know, that particular few days
that we have the event, because if you notice around the country,
people were seeing what we're doing, and they're trying to -- they're
trying to imitate it.
I mean, if you just go on our eastern neighbors here in Broward
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County, what they just built -- they actually built a stadium around
their -- their particular -- I guess their championship court. But they
have about 39, 40 courts or something. Not quite as many as we do,
but that was pretty impressive seeing the actual stadium built around
the championship court, because they want to get in on this game, I
think. They're seeing -- they're seeing the writing on the wall, and
pickleball is the future sport that everybody can participate in no
matter what your age group is.
And, you know, I think -- and I want to remain the question on
Jeopardy that I saw a few weeks ago, the pickleball capital of the
world, and the answer was "What is Naples, Florida?" And I don't
want Broward or whoever else down the road, Hollywood, to ever
pop up on the Jeopardy board in the future.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I thought the question was,
"Who approved the mural?" Wasn't that the question? No, that was
different.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No. I'll get into that at the end
of the meeting.
CHAIRMAN HALL: That's on the Daily Double.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Who is Dan Kowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I think this is just -- and
Mr. Dee, we gave you a year the last time you came before us. You
got a year, you know. You asked for five, I think, back then, and we
said, "You've got a year to come back and prove to us that you're not
one of the ones that are just going to keep putting your hand out."
And when I saw what you put together and what you're doing, I
said, you know, "You definitely are moving in the right direction." I
think this board wants everybody to start looking at the model that
you're doing to do this project and keep this going.
And I like the fact that the -- you are still keeping the services to
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the public, you know, because this is a community park. I mean, it
started out as a -- it wasn't much of a community park back in the
day, but, you know, we had our skateboard ramps. We'd have our
volunteers come out once in a while, repaint them at the end of the
year, and that was about it. But it's completely different than it was
20-something years ago, that's for sure. It's definitely a jewel in
District 4.
And, yeah, I totally support, you know, supporting you guys in
this public partnership -- private/public partnership and keeping us
moving in the right direction I believe it needs to be going. So I'm
totally supportive.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chairman.
I think the motion is Commissioner Kowal's to make since it's in
his district, but -- even though this is, like, one of those entities that
really is countywide, similar to, like, the Paradise Coast Sports
Complex and some other big things, but -- so I'm not going to make a
motion.
But I just wanted to add, the county always has an out. So
even, you know, at times we've been tentative of approving things
that are multiple years because it's like, "Oh, what if they don't keep
up their end of the bargain?" And as our County Attorney always,
you know, astutely reminds us, there's always fine print in there that
if we feel like things are going south, we don't have to sit here and
keep writing checks.
But, you know, one of the things I wanted to just say is how
much shoe leather you've burned in this building meeting with all of
us, which is what we ask -- we ask of all of our contractors.
Hey, if you're unhappy and we're unhappy, how come we're not
hearing from you? How come you're not coming proactively, you
know, into our offices and showing us ideas and things?
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And also, too, it's that attitude that shows what kind of leader
you are, or your organization and, you know, are we going to
be -- are you someone that we're proud to work with?
And I just have to tell you, Mike, that, you know, the time that
I've spent with you, you know, just your energy, your excitement,
people that have spoken on your behalf, I mean, we need more of that
in some of our partners, you know, in the county. Don't take this as,
you know, a rubber stamp and -- because we're going to be watching
closely.
One of the things you and I talked about is similar to what we
just said a little while ago at the TDC. I want to see you guys
earning your keep, weaning yourself off of, you know, the county
writing checks and things like that. There's quite a bit of tax dollars
we put into this facility that, you know, maybe, I will say that I even
regret now that I think that, you know, your predecessors maybe
could have ponied up a little bit more, but that's ancient history.
But every question that I asked you of concerns that I had, I
really liked your answers, and I think, you know, this -- and it's
similar to the -- to the FC Naples. You know, when we sit down
with their leadership team, they get it and that we want to work
together. But, you know, we want you to not have to lean on the
county, you know, so much and the taxpayers and -- and to still have
this be a shining star.
So I just want to say I've been extremely impressed and
appreciative of the time that you've spent and the questions that
you've answered that I had. And I was very impressed, you know,
with everything. So I support this 110 percent.
MR. DEE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So this is one of those deals that I'm
super proud to be a part of. This is a private/public partnership, and
Mike gets it. I mean, he's phasing himself out. In the first -- in the
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third extension, all he wants to do -- he wants to extend his U.S.
Open Pickleball Championships for seven years. That's the perfect
amount of time. It's running well now. It will be a well-oiled
machine by then.
I saw the excitement. I saw the professionalism. I saw the
planning. I saw how things moved effortlessly at the championship
this year.
And pickleball is here. It's not going anywhere. It's not a fad.
And I've got people from Brownwood, Texas, where my boys are.
They're like, "Dude, you're in Naples. You're the pickleball
championship of the world." We just -- "We're playing pickleball
here." If they're playing pickleball in Brownwood, Texas, they're
playing pickleball everywhere. It never blows less than 25 miles an
hour there, so I don't know what kind of balls they're playing with,
but...
But, you know, he's coming up with -- he wants us to pitch in a
million dollars for a covered stadium, but they're pitching in the other
million. They're partnering up with us, and they're building a county
asset so that they can operate and be functional and be successful.
Just the pickleball academy alone, that idea and the
implementation of that, up to 10,000 extra visitors a year.
That's -- that's innovative thinking. That's -- that's the kind of stuff
that we're looking for with this county.
The fourth extension, what we're doing, we're just -- we're just
bringing that -- we're extending it three years and bringing it up to par
where it's going to match the U.S. Open Pickleball Championship
with that lease agreement.
He's got the controlling interest now of the concessionaire.
We're not going to have to worry about him paying his bills or even
wondering about it.
So it's responsible for all the capital maintenance. I mean, that
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takes -- that takes the light off you and your staff, and it's a big deal.
And it's -- they've got the ownership. The way that those pickleball
courts look and the way they feel reflects on them, and we get the
benefit of it.
There's a million-dollar swing in the first -- the first three years
of the extension it's going to save us $400,000, and then the
additional four years saves us an additional 600,000. So just with
the extension, that's a million-dollar swing of savings for Collier
County taxpayers.
I love this deal. We got 15 percent of the proceeds, which is
estimated -- I think -- what is it, half a million dollars the first year?
MR. DEE: The first year step-ladders up to a half million
dollars by year three.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Right. So I mean, that's a win-win. So
with that, any other comments? Or let's get this motion on the road.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Should we do all -- 11E, F, and
G all at one time?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, I'd like to make a motion
to approve 11E, 11F, and 11G the way they're written per the
contract.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Motion and seconded. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Umanimous [sic].
MR. HANRAHAN: Thank you, Commissioners.
Item #11H
APPROVE AN AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE
UNDER THE CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION
PROGRAM WITH MARK RADEL FOR A 1.14-ACRE PARCEL AT
A COST OF $33,060 AND KAUSIL SEEPERSAD FOR A 1.14-
ACRE PARCEL AT A COST OF $24,910, FOR A TOTAL COST
NOT TO EXCEED $61,020 INCLUSIVE OF CLOSING COSTS -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item
11H, formerly 16A2. This is a recommendation to approve an
agreement for sale and purchase under the Conservation Collier Land
Acquisition Program with Mark Radel for a 1.14-acre parcel at a cost
of $33,060 and Kausil Seepersad for a 1.14-acre parcel at a cost
$24,910, for a total cost not to exceed $61,020, inclusive of closing
costs.
This item is brought to the regular agenda at Commissioner
LoCastro's request, and Ms. Jaime Cook, your director of
Development Review, is here to present or answer questions.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. I'll just set the table a
little bit. It was on the consent agenda, but we get beat up so much
for what we're not doing with Conservation Collier. "Oh, you know,
you've raided the fund, and, you know, you're -- there's not enough
money to buy things," yet, you know, while we're defending
ourselves and correcting the record and separating rumor from fact,
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we've been buying parcels, you know, left and right, and in some
cases not, you know, but we've been having, you know, discussion up
here.
So one of the reasons why I wanted to pull it is as a good-news
story and say -- unless there's a commissioner that has an issue with
the parcel. I mean, if Ms. Cook wants to go through and -- you
know, she already answered the questions from me, but I wanted to
bring her to the podium again to send the signal to the public of how
often we've been talking about Conservation Collier.
Regardless of what's in the fund or not, there's enough money in
the fund to buy what we need, and so just throwing more money in it
just to have more money in it isn't necessarily accomplishing
anything. What we're accomplishing is exactly what we're doing
right now and what Ms. Cook has been leading for the last, what,
eight, nine, 10 months where we've bought parcels. We've bought
parcels under the appraisal price, which is a first as well. We talk
about saving a little bit of money here and there. You know, that
few percent here, a few percent there, it all adds up.
So I didn't know if you wanted to, you know, give an overview
of this particular parcel, but I wanted to pull it just so it doesn't get
sort of lost in the weeds. You know, anything Conservation Collier
just doesn't get lost in the weeds and we're not hearing about it.
MS. COOK: Sure. I'm happy to go through the presentation if
you'd all like me to do so.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I don't know that that's necessary, but I
do want to make another comment on -- based on what
Commissioner LoCastro just said.
We are buying these little parcels and these little pieces as infills
for the larger picture. And because we're buying so many of them,
we're establishing our own market. We are the comparable sales for
some of these -- for some of these parcels.
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I would like to see us start making -- see what happens if we
make an offer at 50 percent on the dollar and see what happens,
because I don't think that you're going to find that anybody
else -- there's no other buyers. And we would be able to purchase
just as many parcels at half the price and stretch those dollars even
further.
I'm not saying I want to say make that, you know, like -- do that
like a directive, but I would be very interested in knowing and see
what happens if we -- if we did that, or at least what -- the appraisal
price less the mitigation cost on these wetlands, you know, where
there's really no other choice.
And if we're going buy them, I'd be happy -- I'd just be
interested in seeing what happens. And if it works, great. And if it
doesn't, we can always say 10 percent below appraisal.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I mean, if there's no other
questions, I wanted to make a motion to approve the purchase of
these parcels. And I'm also for anything that could save us money
on parcels, you know. The big point I had made previously is when
a parcel's sitting next to somebody's $10 million home and they own
that empty parcel, I'll be damned if I'm going to pay a -- have
taxpayers pay appraisal value so that this person, in perpetuity, can
get a nature preserve next to their house, and they'll never have a
neighbor. That has value. And what we have found is some people
have taken us up on less than appraisal value. And even if we could
go deeper -- and, like Commissioner Hall said, you make an offer.
Alls they can say is no. We can always counter. But I like the
direction that it's going. But I'll make a motion to approve purchase
of these two parcels.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I make a comment?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yeah, go ahead.
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You just -- something just
popped in my brain after you made those comments because -- do
you have a picture of, like, how -- like, one of the particular sites
that -- we have bought, like, 20 already, and there's, like, three or four
in the middle, or a doughnut hole that we haven't purchased yet.
MS. COOK: This is the Gore Preserve.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So all the green we
already own, right?
MS. COOK: Correct, yes. The green we own, the blue are
under contract, so we will own those shortly, and the yellow have
accepted agreement -- have accepted offers.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: What -- I understand what
Commissioner Hall's saying, because now if you look at the -- look at
the picture now, the only people we're competing against is ourself,
what we're already paying for these lots.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So we're doing a valued estimate
of the property on what we paid for the lot we paid last time for,
right, because you do comparables to what sells in the area?
MS. COOK: They do do comparables, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. And that's how they find
the estimated value. So in reality, they're only comparing the money
we already spent on all the lots around it.
MS. COOK: Typically, the appraised --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We're only competing against
ourself when we talk about this money. I mean --
CHAIRMAN HALL: That's exactly right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. Interesting.
MS. COOK: Typically, the appraisals that are done for these
multi-parcel projects are not -- they don't compare to Conservation
Collier lots. They compare to other lots that have been sold.
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But we've bought all the lots
around it.
MS. COOK: Anything in -- anything in --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Or they can go out of the area
and compare a lot.
MS. COOK: Anything in this, like, light blue area we do not
own.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Those are sold, though?
MS. COOK: Someone owns them. Conservation Collier does
not. But if they've sold recently, those are typically the ones that,
when they do the annual appraisals, those sales are compared, not
Conservation-Collier-bought properties --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right.
MS. COOK: -- if that makes sense.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I'm just trying to make
sure that they're not -- because that's a big difference because if
they're actually buying these ones within the -- the target area, we'll
never own them.
MS. COOK: People have bought them. Some may decide
they don't want to build on them, some may decide they don't want to
pay the mitigation to build on them, so then they look to sell them
again. But there have been some for sale. Some have bought
them -- some have built. Some have not.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I was going to say, because the
only thing you really go on -- typically, on most of these lots, they
were probably purchased 20, 30 years ago for fractions of what we're
saying they're appraised for now. And then when we're comparing
the prices, what we paid for the ones around the ones we're trying to
buy in the middle of the doughnut hole, you're saying we don't use
anything in the comparison. We use some other person that bought
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property in the same general area?
MS. COOK: Correct, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The caution that I'm going to
offer up is, with love, don't get greedy when we're making these
acquisitions and moving to a fixed 50 percent of the value.
I like the idea and the rationale of estimation of the mitigation
cost for a person to be able to build a home on one of these lots, but
remember that that's -- that's pretty much the only deficiency or
reduction in the value of a piece of property is the associated
mitigation that would come along to be able to develop on this.
So I -- and I wasn't being disrespectful when I said, "Don't be
greedy," but just moving to a 50 percent of the value can stimy an
enormous amount of work that's already been done by our staff.
CHAIRMAN HALL: It wasn't meant as an overall directive.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Just take some of this stuff that's solid
wetlands that there is no market for. Throw out there 50 cent on the
dollar. See what happens. You look scared when I say that.
MS. COOK: I'm not scared.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
MS. COOK: I don't scare easily, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Don't. Don't be.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She gets to do what she gets
to do no matter what we do, whether we buy it or whether we don't.
It's just -- my statement just had to do with the fact that we just don't
want to get in -- we don't want to get -- we don't want to get greedy
with regard -- we've already done really good things already in
reducing what we're, in fact, paying now.
Keep up the good work.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Right.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
How many years have we been buying conservation lands in this
particular location, in the Gore area?
MS. COOK: Since 2018.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So for six years
we've been buying parcels. How much has the price gone up since
you started, you know, the first parcels you bought in 2018 -- is that
what you said --
MS. COOK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- compared to today?
MS. COOK: The first parcels in Gore, I believe it was about
111 -- 170 acres that was bought, so it was several million dollars
back then.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No. I'm talking about the
individual lots that you were buying per --
MS. COOK: They've actually -- they've actually decreased.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So we're not really
bidding against ourselves right now. The prices have actually been
going down?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was just curious about
how -- if you paid, you know, $20,000 for an acre six years ago and
you're paying $100,000 an acre now, then obviously something's
going wrong. But you're saying the prices have actually started to
go down a little bit?
MS. COOK: Correct, yeah.
So in their multi-parcel projects, we do two appraisals, and then
our appraised value is the average of the two. I believe some of the
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older ones I saw for the wetland properties, it was closer to 25-,
26,000 per acre. Right now it's about 23,5- per acre, so it is going
down slightly.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
So that's interesting, because we always have people come to the
podium telling us that property values are going up every year, and
we need more money in the account to purchase properties. In
reality, in the last six year they've been going down because -- are we
creating that artificially because we're buying up the property in these
particular target areas and they're seeing that there's no value for
somebody else to come in and try and build a home in the middle of
nowhere, basically?
MS. COOK: It could be, but I'm not exactly sure the reason
that it's going down.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's just interesting. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So we have a motion.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I made a motion. Did any --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Motion and a second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
Item #11I
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APPROVE AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A
LOW INCOME POOL LETTER OF AGREEMENT WITH THE
AGENCY FOR HEALTH CARE ADMINISTRATION IN THE
AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $1,719,499.44, TO PARTICIPATE
IN THE MEDICAID CENTRAL RECEIVING FACILITY LOW
INCOME POOL PROGRAM, GENERATING $2,295,209 IN
FEDERAL MATCHING FUNDS FOR THE BENEFIT OF DAVID
LAWRENCE MENTAL HEALTH CENTER TO ASSIST IN
MEETING THE STATE REQUIRED MATCH OBLIGATION,
AND AUTHORIZE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO
THE FY25 BUDGET IN THE AMOUNT $303,999.44. (FISCAL
IMPACT $1,719,499.44 - MOTION TO APPROVE THE FUNDING
AT WHAT WE HAVE BUDGETED FOR, $1.5 MILLION BY
COMMISSIONER HALL, MOTION FAILED WITH NO SECOND
- MOTION TO APPROVE THE REQUESTED AMOUNT BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED (COMMISSIONER
HALL OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 11I,
which is formerly 16D5. This is a recommendation to approve and
authorize the Chairman to sign a Low Income Pool letter of
agreement with the Agency for Healthcare Administration in the
amount not to exceed $1,719,499.44 to participate in the Medicaid
Central Receiving Facility Low Income Pool program generating
$2,295,209 in federal matching funds for the benefit of David
Lawrence Mental Health Center to assist in meeting the
state-required match obligation, and authorize necessary budget
amendments to the FY '25 budget in the amount of $303,999.44.
This item was brought to the regular agenda by Commissioner
Hall, and Mr. Kristi Sonntag, your director of Community and
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Human Services -- oh, I got it right -- is here to answer questions or
present.
MS. SONNTAG: Commissioners --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Let me go. I brought this forward. I
just didn't want to just rubber stamp this on the consent without some
discussion. And the reason I did is, there again, we've all promised
to do the hard work and make the harder decisions. And we're not
talking about TDT money. We're talking about -- we're talking
about tax money now, General Fund money.
And I'm all about supporting mental health and supporting
addictive behavior. I'm all about that. But as far as being a public
steward of money, I wanted to bring this back and talk about it.
Last year we had surtax money that we gave them 25 to 30
million to build the central receiving facility. I personally don't
know where we are in the process with that right now.
We were also presented with furniture, fixtures, and equipment
of a shortage of four million, and I don't know where we're at with
that right now either. That was a deficit for operations. And I said
at the time that they needed to figure that out.
Well, this proposal -- this agenda item says we want to give
them 100 -- or $1.7 million so that they can get some federal grant
money to match, and by state statute, we're allowed to give them that
money as a -- as raising local money, but I don't necessarily see
where the taxpayers of Collier County have to be the hole local
money.
And I'm willing to give what's fair, and if we determine it's 1.7
million, so be it. But I wanted to bring this up and talk about it
before we just rubber stamped it as this is just something good to do
and, you know, they're expecting it.
And I hope you hear my heart, Scott, about this.
And so I welcome the discussion.
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Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On that note, my
understanding is that this is a contribution that we make to DLC in
order to allow them to qualify for the funding from the feds and the
state with regard to the Medicaid care and, necessarily, it's something
we have to do.
After we're done with this agenda item with regard to DLC,
under commissioner comments we're going to have a discussion
about the other items that you -- that you broached with regard to the
construction of the facility and the FF&E and ongoing operations.
So let's -- if you want to have a presentation on this, or you want
a motion on this for --
CHAIRMAN HALL: No. I just wanted -- I wanted the
discussion. And basically, my whole point was, why do the
taxpayers have to qualify as the local contribution for the match?
MS. PATTERSON: Ms. Sonntag can answer that question for
you, and also, we do need to point you to the fact that there was an
amount in our budget, which Ms. Sonntag can cover, and we are
looking for an additional $303,000 to balance out that funding.
So, Kristi, if you want to go ahead and just walk the
commissioner at least -- the commissioners through those questions.
MS. SONNTAG: Sure. For the record, Kristi Sonntag,
Community and Human Services director.
So to answer your question, Commissioner, on local
match -- I'm going to scroll to this particular slide. The Attorney
General Opinion from 2011 said that local government is not, like,
the sole source of match. So local can be any one of those that I've
listed off to the side, which would be client fees, volunteer hours,
local government, municipalities, donations in kind.
So what the Florida Statute actually states is that local
government is required to come up with the difference. So if -- for
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example, David Lawrence Center's match this year is 2.3 million,
okay. That's what the State has said they're required to come up
with. So I'm going to use a very simple math example at the bottom.
So if the match is a million dollars and all those other sources in that
list I provided were 470,000, you as a commission would only be
responsible for 530-. So hopefully that answers your question about
local match and what local match is.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So are there any other -- other sources
toward the match that we would have to fill the difference of, or are
you saying the difference is the 303,000?
MS. SONNTAG: No. Currently, David Lawrence Center's
required match is 2.3 million. So the General Fund budget that you
have in the anticipated Fiscal Year '25, you've allocated 1.4 million in
General Fund, and then you have 522,000 in a separate agreement
with opioid settlement, and those are not state dollars. Opioid
dollars, you know, come from the pharmaceuticals. So if we
combine that together, we get to 1.9 million.
And what the David Lawrence Center is proposing is -- let me
get there -- the 1.7 million generates 2.2 million from the feds, which
gets them to 4 million. That 2 million is not -- it's federal money, so
it can't count toward their 2 million.
So right now, if you just went with the 1.4 million, you would
generate 1.8 in federal match. So the David Lawrence Center would
receive a check for 3.3 million, okay.
But, again, if you take the 1.4, add it to the 522-, you come to
1.9, so they're a little short; however, they do have contracts with the
Sheriff's Department. Those dollars, as you know, come from you,
go to the Sheriff, and then back to David Lawrence. They do make
up the gap.
And Mr. Burgess is here if you'd like to ask him any specific
questions. I have his financials from '22 which show they received
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8,000 in patient -- 8 million patient revenue.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I would like to make a motion to approve
the funding at the -- at what we have budgeted, at the 1.415.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, can I ask a
question?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Because I'm supporting it at
the requested 1.7. But let me ask you this: In terms of what it's
actually costing Collier County to do this match, what is it actually
costing us over and above what we are appropriating or others are
appropriating to David Lawrence Center? What is the actual cost to
the county?
MS. SONNTAG: Currently, what the contract is with the
David Lawrence Center would be the 1.4 million.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's what we've already
contracted with them?
MS. SONNTAG: Well, that's what -- today you would approve
that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If this -- if we weren't
talking about Low Income Pool, would we still be spending the 1.4
million?
MS. SONNTAG: Well, you would be required to come up with
some match by Florida Statute. So if -- David Lawrence Center, you
could ask them, you know, what how much have you received from
other sources? And then it would be up to you as a commission.
You'd have to make up that difference.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Because my
understanding of the Low Income Pool is that if we're appropriating
dollars for David Lawrence Center or there's other matching dollars,
we simply are a conduit in order to get a federal match; that we're not
actually spending local dollars over and above what we would
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normally be spending anyway. And I'm not sure if I'm clear on that
question.
But Mr. Burgess is sort of shaking his head. Maybe we can get
some clarification. Because I understand where Commissioner Hall
is coming from that, you know, we're expending all these dollars, but
I think we're expending them anyway, and now we're just expending
them in a way that gets a federal match.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: A bigger match.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That we multiply those
funds.
MR. BURGESS: A bigger match.
For the record, Scott Burgess, the CEO of the David Lawrence
Centers. Thank you so much for having me here, and I'm happy to
answer any questions.
So I'm hoping that I can convey this. It does get a little
complicated with the federal and the state rules. But to speak on a
macro level first, 70 percent of the folks that come to David
Lawrence Centers are underinsured or uninsured. So by the virtue of
the fact that we have so many people in Collier County that are
coming to us that come for care that don't have an ability to pay, we
run a high amount of charity care. The Low Income Pool is a federal
program to help match local dollars in order to help take care of some
of that uncompensated care. At David Lawrence Center it's a
significant number.
Outside of Collier County revenue that you're providing, that's
about 5 percent of our total budget. Ninety-five percent of our
budget is non-Collier general revenue funds.
So this amount that we're requesting, the 1.7 million, will allow
us to be able to garner additional federal funds, and with those funds
altogether, that will help us have a breakeven budget.
So I hope -- I hope that helps, and if there's additional
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clarification or specific questions, I'm happy to answer those.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
The director --
MS. SONNTAG: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You sit on the Board with us on
the Public Safety Committee.
MS. SONNTAG: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I know -- I know we
had -- the last particular meeting we had, we lost a grant.
MS. SONNTAG: Yes, sir, we did.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We did, right?
MS. SONNTAG: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And the reason we lost the grant
was because David Lawrence pulled out? Was that the language, or
how did that happen; do you remember?
MS. SONNTAG: It's the Criminal Justice Mental Health and
Substance Abuse grant. So David Lawrence Center no longer
wanted to be a partner in that grant with the Sheriff's Office, and they
did pull out. They were going to be a subcontractor to the Sheriff's
Office. We believe that the reason that we scored so low based on
the scoring sheets was it lacked a transition to your local community
mental health provider. So when we submitted our Grant application
without the mental health provider, we didn't score as well, and that
was for the Medication-Assisted Treatment program that's through
the jail.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The MAT program.
MS. SONNTAG: Uh-huh, yep. And that -- that award was 1.2
million that no longer will come to the county.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And -- because you want to
offset. I understand the 1.4 is in there. We agreed upon that. But
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you want to offset -- to get to this 1.7 is with the 499-, which is the
opioid settlement money, correct?
MS. SONNTAG: No. We're asking for an increase in General
Fund of 304-, give or take, 303,999.44, to be exact. So what we're
doing is we're asking to get to this 1.7. Your budget has 1.4. We're
asking you today for an additional 303- out of the General Fund. In
addition, David Lawrence will have a contract for 522- of opioid
settlement. So if you gave them the 1.7, then they also have a
500,000. So if you put it together, you're at, what, 2.2 -- 2.2 million,
sorry.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Are we going to discontinue our
MAT program in the jail?
MS. SONNTAG: Actually, no. We will be bringing an
agreement to you for approval in the month of October for the Collier
County Sheriff's Office for opioid settlement for them to continue the
MAT program. So that will pay for the nursing staff. It will pay for
any ancillary, you know, incidental expenses, plus the actual
medication, but that's directly from the county to the Sheriff with
opioid settlement.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But we would have received the
1.1 million through the grant that --
MS. SONNTAG: Yeah, we don't receive -- we won't, yeah,
uh-uh.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Those are the consequences.
I'm comfortable with the 1.4.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I fully support the 1.7, and I
think actually Scott's wrong when he says that if he gets the full
amount and he does all the math, he's going to break even. I think
David Lawrence Center operates on a shoestring as mental health
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needs increase in this community exponentially, but we continue to
squeeze and cut. And we're -- you know, they're going to come to us
here in the future for wanting to build something else on their
property, and, of course, a whole bunch of people aren't going to
want that, and, you know, it just becomes a very, you know,
challenging job, you know, that you have at DLC.
I think -- I look at this as an investment so that you can get
maximum dollars that I think are needed. I've been on the customer
side -- I guess that's, like, the wrong term. But when I was at
Physicians Regional, I mean, I had you on speed dial, and I sent you
plenty of those people with no insurance, and, you know, you took
them every single time.
So I know how expensive it is to operate a mental health facility.
I know how hard you work to get, you know, donations and other
sources of income. So you're definitely not a person that comes to
this meeting with your hand out and your hat out. And I think, you
know, if Sheriff Rambosk was here, he would agree that this is an
important investment that's maybe even -- is he in the back
somewhere? Is that what you're --
MR. BURGESS: No, no. I was just saying I had a point
related to that, if I might.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Listen, don't cut me off. I'm
saying -- I'm saying positive things for your organization. If you
want to stop me...
I'm just kidding.
But I support the full amount because I think -- I know that it
leads to you being able to go for a maximum amount, and I don't -- I
don't -- the difference is significant, hundreds of thousands of dollars,
but I think in the big scheme of things, your organization's already
been squeezed so much. NCH no longer does mental health care,
and I could go on and on of how much has been dumped on David
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Lawrence Center.
I look at this and say, you know, I want you to have the full
support of the county behind you at the -- at the, you know, requested
amount so that then you can do your due diligence and bring back
even more to provide outstanding service that is heavily tapped, you
know, in this community. So I support the 1.7.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And I agree, the
increase up to the 1.7 will allow for the maximum amount from
the -- from the feds from a contribution standpoint, so -- and I do as
well consider it an investment in our community. I mean, we've had
the Sheriff here multiple times and talked about the cost offset
associated with housing care, programming, everything else along
those lines. And so I support the full amount for the 1.7 request.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Well, I had a motion that failed for a
second. So Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I support the full amount
also, the 1.7. So I'll make that motion, unless somebody already has.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. I've got a motion and second
for the 1.7. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
Motion passed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And could you -- maybe this
is for the County Attorney. Could you at some point provide me
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some information on how the Low Income Pool actually works?
Because I think there's some misinformation. Either I misunderstand
it or -- so...
MR. KLATZKOW: I'd be happy so, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thanks, Kristi.
MR. BURGESS: Did you want to cover those central receiving
questions now, or did you say that was for a later time?
CHAIRMAN HALL: We'll do it later.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going to bring it up under
commission comments. We're going to talk about it. No more
questions for you today.
MR. BURGESS: Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Item #12A
RESOLUTION 2024-189: APPOINT ONE OR TWO MEMBERS
TO THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION,
REPRESENTING COMMISSION DISTRICTS 2 AND 4. (JEFF
KLATZKOW, COUNTY ATTORNEY) - MOTION TO APPROVE
THE CANDIDATE FOR DISTRICT 2 BY COMMISSIONER
HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL –
ADOPTED - COMMISSIONER KOWAL REQUESTED
ADDITIONAL TIME TO SIT AND TALK TO DISTRICT 4
CANDIDATES AND WILL HAVE HIS RECOMMENDATION AT
THE NEXT MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item
12A. This is a recommendation to appoint one or two members to
the Collier County Planning Commission representing Commission
Districts 2 and 4.
Mr. Klatzkow.
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MR. KLATZKOW: This is two open seats. There's a
nomination from the Chair for his seat, and I would ask that we
bifurcate this and make a motion to approve this one. Then we'll
move on to District 4.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I'll make a motion to approve the guy for
District 2.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We have a motion and a second to
approve. What's his name -- Colucci? Whoever. I can't remember
his name.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Colucci.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Anyway. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Welcome aboard, sir.
MR. KLATZKOW: And the second part of this is District 4,
and I'll defer to the commissioner of the district.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. I asked the attorney
yesterday if I can postpone this particular appointment to the next
meeting because I had a few late applicants that came on that didn't
have a chance to put their paperwork in the cutoff time. But, you
know, if I'm going to appoint somebody, I actually want to sit down
and talk to them. So I'm trying to get that done here in the next day
or two, so -- and then I'll come back in -- if that's okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm totally fine with that.
Do we need an actual continuance?
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MR. KLATZKOW: No, we do not. It's -- the way that the
executive summary was structured, we could do it the way we're
doing it now.
Commissioners, if it's all right with you, I'll wait until I get a
nomination from Commissioner Kowal. Then I'll bring it back.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great. I think it's a good call.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15,
staff and commission general communications.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Item 15A is public comments on general
topics not on the current or future agenda by individuals not already
heard during previous public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: No one.
Item #15B
STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
MS. PATTERSON: Item 15B, staff project updates. We do
not have any today.
Item #15C
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STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: So that brings us to Item 15C, staff and
commission general communications.
I do have two things for you. The first is relative to three
agenda items that were on the consent agenda, three tourism
items -- or Coastal Zone. We didn't get the information prior to the
release of the change sheet, but I just want to read into the record, for
Item 16B3, which is the 10-year plan for Coastal Zone, Item 16B4,
which is the TDC grant applications that Coastal Zone goes through
every year, and 16B5 was also that resolution relative to those
programs. They all were presented and approved 5-0 to the Coastal
Advisory Committee.
As you know, all these items for -- for the Coastal Zone group,
they actually make two committee stops, one at the Tourist
Development Council and one at the Coastal Advisory Committee,
so -- and they're required to provide those findings. So they were all
unanimously approved.
Second item is relative to the upcoming weather. The Collier
County Schools has closed school on Thursday. They just put that
out a little while ago. Just putting that out there. Of course, they
have to make that decision, obviously, because of buses and
unknowns about the amount of rain.
We will work with the staff, though, to be sure that we can
accommodate those folks that have to have childcare, and we'll work
that out, but just wanted to advise you that they have made that call to
close school.
Other than that, I don't have anything.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good afternoon, sir.
Let's -- we'll do -- well, I'll just go through my list. First of all,
I want to thank staff. Our Code Enforcement in Immokalee, they
have had two community cleanups that have been enormously
successful, and our folks at the CRA in Immokalee, in cooperation
with the Sheriff's Department, have -- have done a yeoman's job out
there, and I just wanted to say thank you, Amy, for the support that's
been given to that community.
Second, Commissioner Hall, you made a discussion point on the
previous agenda item on something that I want to talk about. I'd like
to have an update on the central receiving facility to this board.
There's -- you know, there again, there was an $18 million spread
between the estimated construction cost and the available sales tax
money. There's a $4.4 million FF&E deficit that hasn't been
addressed.
The largest concern, short of those two, which are large enough,
is a $4 million a year O&M in perpetuity, operations and
maintenance. And I think we as a board need to have a discussion
about how we're going to accomplish this dire need. There's -- you
know, when this was passed years ago with a previous board, the
discussion had to do with the need, and there's no -- there doesn't
need to have -- we don't need to have a discussion about the need.
We need to have a discussion about how do we tend the need, and it
has to be done pragmatically. It can't be done emotionally. And I
feel that a lot of emotion was put into the decision-making process in
the past. And we need -- we need to approach it with pragmatism.
So I'd like for us, in the near future, next couple of -- not
November. At some -- you know, since I'm picking and choosing
when we're doing things -- but I'd like for us to have a discussion
about this just to -- to maybe bring it all to a point and have
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some -- have all of us have some input into it.
In regard to the funding that was appropriated to our national
soccer team, I want it to be said as is with the discussion we had with
our grants, as it has with our discussion with regard to Conservation
Collier, this is -- this investment of advertising dollars is not a forever
thing. I want to see that professional soccer team pick up the reigns
and go forth and persevere. And, again, I'm considering this to be
an -- we already approved it. I'm considering this to be an
investment, but I want it to be known that it isn't just come to the
trough and get a drink every time and get to expecting it.
Last, but not least, and probably the funnest, was last night I had
an opportunity to tour the Great Wolf Lodge. That place is open.
Talk to our folks at Paradise Coast. The Great Wolf Lodge has
booked 3,500 room nights between now and the end of this year, and
more events are coming to our park because the Great Wolf Lodge is
there. They booked 6,500 room nights at the Great Wolf Lodge for
'25. That's 10,000 room nights just because that place opened up.
That came to me last night.
They have hired 675 people to work at the Great Wolf Lodge,
675, and that's up 75 from the jobs that they had prophesied when
that transaction first came to us.
And then just recently Jason, the general manager over there,
purchased 800 memberships to our gym at Paradise Coast Park to be
able to offer up to both guests and employees that are working there.
So the cooperation between Paradise Coast Park and the Great
Wolf Lodge has already -- and they've only been open, like, three or
four days. The grand opening isn't until the first part of October, and
they're full. I mean, they have a total of -- they haven't opened up
the last two floors. They have 375 rooms there are available for
utilization right now, and they're booked up.
So they're -- and I'm really, really pleased with how the
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organization has operated. I mean, their cleaning staff, the folks that
they hired to do the cleaning in the rooms, they're starting those folks
out at $20 an hour to take care of the cleaning of the inside of the
facility. So if you get the opportunity, go and visit, because it's a
hopping place. It's a -- it's an amazing facility.
That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm glad to hear what an
amazing overnight automatic success Great Wolf Lodge has become,
so I'm glad we paid them to convince them to come here. You knew
I was going to say that. No, Bill, he knew it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you for your support.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm glad to hear all the
positives. I mean, we knew it would be so -- even though we might
have disagreed on convincing them to come here.
No, the one thing I just wanted to say was I appreciate
everybody's indulgence. I wasn't here for the budget meeting. The
news made it sound like there was some sort of -- you know, I had
some sort of travel anomaly. As all the commissioners know -- just
to go on record -- I had planned to attend the budget meeting, and
then I had travel plans afterwards. Twenty-four hours prior, my
tickets were canceled by my airline, and I was given four options
that -- to rebook at no expense on totally different airlines.
And I called Amy Patterson immediately and just said, all these
options, all of them will have me airborne during the budget meeting,
and I have to go on this trip.
And so, you know -- but as I had mentioned to her, I had no
issues with the budget. I had a lot of pre-meetings, as we all did.
The things that I had hoped would get tabled to another meeting, you
know, did. So there wasn't some sort of nefarious, you know, I had a
travel anomaly or something. And I shot notes to the Chairman and
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all the commissioners to let them know that I wasn't going to be even
able to call in. It was going to be impossible.
But I'm really encouraged by the direction that we're going
financially in this county with the leadership of so many people.
And so sharpening pencils, thinking outside the box and bringing up
things here, this is very healthy conversation. It's not so much how
the vote goes. It's really how the conversation, you know, goes.
And sometimes, you know, the vote goes your way and sometimes it
doesn't. And -- but then after the vote's over, you table that, and then
you move -- you know, you move forward, although I will continue
to needle you about the Great Wolf Lodge just because I get
enjoyment out of it. I get enjoyment.
No, but of course we want them to be a success, and we knew all
the things that it would bring.
But I wanted to really commend the staff on the budget
because -- rather than just sort of, you know, change the date and
shoot out the slide, which I know that they didn't do in the past, but it
is a totally different machine right now, and they've been so
responsive to our questions and to the things we're trying to digest
before we just vote on something. And I couldn't be just, you know,
more impressed and appreciative to the staff that are in this room and
the many people that aren't in here that have a lot to do with it,
because, you know, we ask one question, and it generates eight
people sometimes having to do something. But we immediately get
back an answer.
So I apologize that it was impossible for me to be here, but I was
trading notes with my fellow commissioners here as well as with
Ms. Patterson, and I appreciated the connectivity so that I knew what
was happening and that I wasn't missing something or that you
needed my input, you know, for something. But thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro -- I mean
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Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I know we talked a lot today. I think this -- we finally got a
good full day's work in. We haven't in a while. It feels good.
But the NCH thing, I know, Commissioner LoCastro, you're
going to kind of take the lead and be our liaison like I am with the
airport.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good luck with that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No. I'm done. That's a done
deal. I presented -- I just want to give you guys an update. I
did -- on the 19th, I spoke to the NAA, Naples Airport Authority.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So where are you moving it
to?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: One inch to the left.
Yeah. So they understand our position on it, and, you know,
they accepted, you know, my explanation on, you know, you guys'
feelings on meeting and even entertaining anything further.
So I think they saw the writing on the wall. They've already got
contractors coming in looking at doing some -- redoing some ponds
and adding some more things to what's already there.
So that being said -- but the NCH I'll get back to. It's such a
public image thing. You know, I -- it's -- you know, you've got 45-,
60,000 people that are going to be affected by this, and it's an image
thing.
And then I hardly knew anything about it. Like I said, I didn't
find out about it till Friday that it was even going on, and then
Commissioner LoCastro said he heard some things about -- you
know, part of the discussion had a lot to do with what Blue
Cross -- or Blue was doing with Sarasota and the hospital up there.
And you know, they felt they were being jolted because they
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weren't getting refunded the same amount of money and things like
that, but at the same time, it's also an image thing, you know. You
don't want the citizens of Collier County thinking that -- they are
getting money. They are getting paid something. There was a
contract, you know. It's -- and I know the difference between zero
and something.
You know, so if you walk away, who suffers? You know, so I
just hope that we can all come -- they can come together and cooler
heads prevail because the services that they provide, you know, are of
utmost importance for our citizens.
So that image of fighting over maybe a few dollars, some other
hospital's getting more than they are, and 40- to 60,000 people are
going to suffer at the end of day, maybe whatever they're getting now
is probably worth it because that is actually looking out for the
community.
So let's just -- like I said, we don't have a whole lot to do with it,
but at least I think now we kind of know what's going on.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: If I can just add. I reached
out to Mr. Hiltz immediately. He's actually out of state, but he
responded to me in seconds. He was not aware that there was a
conversation here, but he responded to me immediately.
I have a phone call the minute this meeting's over with his lead
person at NCH, who's expecting my call. So I will -- you know, if
time is of the essence, which it is, I'll report back through, you know,
Amy Patterson what I'm finding out.
He did send me some information here, which it's premature for
me to share it when I need to fully digest it. But the lines of
communication opened instantaneously, and I'll have a call tonight
with his lead -- his lead person on the issue.
And I'll relay -- I mean, you actually said it perfectly that, you
know, while you're sitting here trying to make a case over dollars and
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cents -- and it is important, a little bit compared to nothing, and all
the people that are going to be out.
He did reiterate, though, that they had looked -- they had -- they
had reached out for an extension, and Florida Blue was not interested
in an extension. I forget exactly how he said it. Hadn't heard back
from them, or we heard that an extension wasn't -- wasn't something
they would entertain. So I'll get more details tonight, but...
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know you will. I have
confidence in you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Now, how are you muffling
jet noise out there? I heard you're putting in a mural. That's what I
heard.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, yeah. That's for another
day. No, actually, that's a done deal, too.
I do have two more little things I want to make a comment on.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's done.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: There was mention to -- the
young lady from Naples Opera, you know, during their presentation
of speakers, the Pavarotti thing is coming back up again. I don't
know if they found possibly some investors, but that 17 acres off of
Bayshore where we have our -- our walk -- connect -- or boardwalk
that's supposed to connect Bayshore to Sugden Park. If people aren't
familiar that's out there in the viewing area, that that's the 17 acres
they're talking about. And they only have -- there's a small little
venue that they have in London, England, and I think they want to
make Naples the hub and that be a branch of it and have his museum
and everything that's related to him here on this particular property.
But that will be a bridge we'll cross sometime in the future. You
know, they have to come with some sort of solicitation, and then
we'll move forward when that time comes.
And the last -- because I know we've always been pondering
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about images every time and we're sitting here, and we think of
things. And last time I think it was Commissioner LoCastro and
Commissioner McDaniel talking about a certain skirt or something
like that, and an image --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't bring that up.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So my image today is seeing
Commissioner McDaniel in his house with the lights down low with
a glass of Crown Royal pondering about the sands on the beaches.
He did make that comment that he was pondering about the sands --
CHAIRMAN HALL: With a cigar.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm going to leave it at that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Hey, Kowal, the name's
actually LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It's LoCastro like Fidel
Castro but with a "Lo," not "Costro."
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I thought you were Italian, not
Cuban.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You go to -- I have one point
that I want to make I thought of while you were going on there. I
lost my train of thought when you finished, but -- but when you're
talking to the Naples Airport Authority and they're looking around at
pond sites and this and that and places to make room, they
recently -- the Mosquito Control recently withdrew from a lease out
at the Immokalee airport because of a large cost -- theoretically, in
their world, a large cost deviation from their estimated cost to what it
was.
And so maybe the Airport Authority can work with the
Mosquito Control to begin -- revisit that facility and its ultimate
relocation out to the Immokalee airport. It would be better for the
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whole community from a title search standpoint, from a
getting-around standpoint because of the expansion of the boundary,
and also throw that at them, because that's extremely valuable land
that the Naples Airport has that's occupied by the Mosquito Control.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. The one project they did
have before them that day when I was there was re-ensuring and
redesigning some of their ponds, the retention pond because of -- they
actually take some of our stormwater from Airport Road and some
certain areas that leach over that way.
So they're excited about -- and they're also looking at some of
parcels they have on the front of Airport Road of possibly putting in
commercial property and leasing it out to, like, restaurants. Actually
talking about maybe a small hotel for the pilots.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, cool.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because the pilots at times when
they come in late, to hold to the curfew issue that they have
there -- because they can't fly out after a certain hour if they're not
actually, you know, held up for something. They usually have to
find lodging, and they're not budgeted to stay, you know, like, in
some of our hotels here. So sometimes they drive all the way to Lee
County just to stay, then have to drive back that morning to fly out.
So there's a few things coming. And I think there's 9 -- 7.9 acres or
maybe 9 acres on North Road that they -- falls in our jurisdiction.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I don't know if there's any future
site plans to come to us, some sort of -- make a partnership. Because
they bought the sound -- the rights to the -- you know, the air above
it, I guess. But it's one of the parcels that's actually in the county's
jurisdiction, not in the city. So there was some designs to
where -- possibly putting something over there.
(Cell phone alarms sounding.)
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There is a storm surge
warning. Speaking of storm surges.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Finished?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
That's our other phone.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Everybody's is on silent. It
overrides the silent button.
CHAIRMAN HALL: My watch is going off.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I've only got one item. I
went to -- at least we know everything works. That's the good news.
I want to extend the free adoptions at our DAS facility until the
end of November. Right now I think the free adoptions ends at the
end of September. And from what I understand from my
conversation with Jamie French, this will help keep the number of
animals in the facilities at a lower level until we're finished with the
work on Building No. 5. So that would be a request to continue the
free adoptions through the end of November.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioner. For the record,
Jamie French, your -- my shirt just says "Collier County" on it these
days -- with Growth Management and Community Development.
We are scheduled to be done with Building 5 probably by the
end of December. With the Christmas holiday coming up, we
believe that reinstating those adoption fees -- and we'll have
something back to you hopefully by then to re-establish what a good
adoption fee would be, that the county would be able to recover part
of their costs while still promoting that animal awareness with
regards to these shelter pets really needing homes.
At this point, we've got some really great partnerships between
the Humane Society of Naples, Dogs Play for Life, as well as
numbers of fosters throughout our community, to include county
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staff. So we're very appreciative of you giving this some
consideration, and we certainly appreciate the opportunity to talk
about it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Great. So, Mr. Chairman, I
don't know if we need a motion, maybe we do, in order to make that
official.
MS. PATTERSON: I believe Board direction is fine. We've
already -- we just have -- we have authority to lower the adoption fee
to a certain point, and then we need Board direction.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I assume no one would object to that,
so...
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I do want to say out loud that
the people that are coming over there to get permits like the service
dogs around, so it gives them something to do while they're
getting -- picking up their permit.
MR. FRENCH: We do have a lot of -- we do have a lot of dogs
at Growth Management these days.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, you do.
MR. FRENCH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great.
I have just one thing. First of all, I feel like I'm the bad guy,
and I don't want to be the bad guy to the public. When I come out
and I say I don't want to fund all of that arts money, it has nothing to
do with the arts. It has to do with I want them taking responsibility
for raising their money and taking responsibility for their business. I
agree, we can prop them up, and it's wise to prop them up, but all the
time for whatever they want, it was just -- I was just fundamentally.
But I didn't want to come across as I'm anti arts, because I'm not at
all.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It will be in the paper
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tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yeah, I know.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think -- I don't disagree
with you at all, but I think if we're going to start talking about
reducing those appropriations, we should do that very early on in the
budget process so we're not really at the last minute where they have
relied on that. So maybe if we start letting them in know March.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We'll start letting them know in January.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: In January. They may
know now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, they're
getting -- they're getting the message right now, and that's where we
ran into last year when the previous ED was up there, it was -- these
people -- some of these people, they've already gone out and
committed these grants, and they hadn't been approved by the Board.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I know.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So...
CHAIRMAN HALL: I just wanted to make it -- I just want to
let Mr. and Ms. Joe Public know that I'm all about the arts, but I'm
also wanting to do the hard work and make the harder decisions.
And I agree, I mean, we made the right decision today, but I just
wanted to set that -- set that tone out there, as well as David
Lawrence Center. I'm all about mental health addiction treatment.
It's a huge need, but at the same time, they need to get the message
that there are other local avenues that they need to pitch for funds just
because they want to maximum their grant -- their grant, and
that's -- that's -- that was the message that I hope that they got.
And when it comes to -- I just want to mention I had a great
conversation with Dr. Yilmaz yesterday. Today we approved in the
consent agenda a $3-million-a-year expenditure to Rexel Electric.
They're a distributor. I used to work for them. They're out of
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Dallas, Texas. That was my first job out of college, and they
represent -- they distribute Allen-Bradley products.
And in the -- in the proposal, I read through it. When I saw it, I
thought, "What is this about?" Three million dollars a year in
expenditures. That's a lot of money in the electrical supply business.
That's 250 grand a month, on average, and an $80,000 order was a
large order back 30 years ago. So, you know, give it a little bit of
inflation.
But in that, you know, there's things that we don't want to -- you
know, the things like the variable frequency drives, the
programmable logic controllers, the PLC input-output cards, those
things we have to buy from Allen-Bradley. They're the cream of the
crop. There's nothing better. We want Allen-Bradley products in
for those things. But as far as the control panels, the Hoffman
boxes, the motor control centers, the push buttons, the contacts, those
things we can negotiate.
Now, we're -- we talked about standardization, and
standardization is important, but we don't want Allen-Bradley to
know that standardization is important. In that -- in that proposal
that we okayed we're actually paying the distributor salespeople to fly
here to do the training when they ought to be doing the training on
their dime for us using their products.
So as we negotiate these things with some of these
manufacturers and these distributors, I would like to see us posture
ourselves a little different. If they think that we're going to go out
for bid for other products that we can live by, they're going to panic.
They're not going to want that. That lady who was the vertical sales
manager, she would be on an airplane in a heartbeat to Naples to keep
us from doing that.
I looked at the discount list price. The greatest discount that
they give us is 13 percent. I know from being in the business, for
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motor control products, you can discount -- they'd discount it 75, 70
percent at that kind of money.
Allen-Bradley is very territorial, meaning they control their
prices very well, and they control their prices on Allen-Bradley
products, so they don't like to cut their price on Allen-Bradley stuff.
But if they thought that we were going to be competing with GE
motor controls or Square D motor controls, or other motor controls
for the things that we can do, they would sharpen their pencil. And
that's just some -- that just comes from me from being in that
business, from being in that industry. I know what the limitations
are.
And I just want to encourage our staff, when they're out there
and when they're in the procurement process, to posture ourselves a
little better, and maybe you didn't know we could. But there again,
it's worth the risk to save us -- that's a lot of money. That's
$15 million that we approved over the next five years.
And we want the good stuff, but we also want them to think that
they have to be competitive on the other stuff, and that's really all I
wanted to say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did you get -- were you
satisfied with your conversation that you had that it wasn't just us
doing business as usual? Did you feel that you got a --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes. Actually, he said, would you
recommend that to staff and just give them that knowledge?
Because -- it's just some inside baseball just from being there. That's
the only way that I know it. It's just because I used to be -- used to
have to deal with it. I was on the distributor side. Rexel
Summers -- Summers Electric was my first job. I got that job
because I won the long-drive contest, and that's no lie. I had no
skills, but I could hit the ball far.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You can't putt.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: So any other comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Good meeting today, gentlemen. I
enjoyed it. And with that, we're adjourned.
****Commissioner Kowal moved, seconded by Commissioner
Saunders, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
RESOLUTION 2024-173: A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE FOR LAND
DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WAS CREATED BY ORDINANCE NO.
2013-57, BY AMENDING THE APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS
FOR PROJECTS WITH PLATS PROPOSING BUILDING
PERMITS BEFORE PLAT RECORDINGS AND PROVIDING AN
EFFECTIVE DATE. (COMPANION TO ITEM 17B) - THE LDC
AMENDMENT PROPOSES TO RENAME THE "PRELIMINARY
SUBDIVISION PLAT" PROCESS TO "CONCEPTUAL PLAT
WITH DEVIATIONS
Item #16A2 - Moved to Item #11H (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
AND APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR WILLOW
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RUN, PL20230011765. - FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE
SUBJECT WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES IN THE
TOTAL AMOUNT OF $1,452,383.07
Item #16A4
WAIVE THE NIGHTTIME HEARING REQUIREMENT AND
HEAR A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT
REGARDING FOOD TRUCKS AND FOOD TRUCK PARKS AT
TWO REGULARLY SCHEDULED DAYTIME BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONER MEETINGS AND APPROVE A
REQUEST TO ADVERTISE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
AMENDMENT - THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH
PROCESSING AND ADVERTISING THE PROPOSED LDC
AMENDMENT ARE ESTIMATED AT $2,016
Item #16A5
AN INCREASE IN YEARLY EXPENDITURES FOR
AGREEMENT 22-043-NS FROM $70,000 PER FISCAL YEAR TO
$100,000 PER FISCAL YEAR FOR THE SINGLE SOURCE
PURCHASE OF ANIMAL LICENSING AND TRACKING FROM
PET DATA, INC., UNTIL THE AGREEMENT EXPIRES OR IS
TERMINATED - THE CURRENT RENEWAL PERIOD EXPIRES
NOVEMBER 7, 2025, WITH 2-1-YEAR RENEWALS
REMAINING UNLESS THE AGREEMENT IS TERMINATED IN
ACCORDANCE WITH OTHER PROVISIONS OF THIS
AGREEMENT
Item #16B1
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AN AGREEMENT FOR THE PURCHASE OF RIGHT-OF-WAY
(PARCEL 1328FEE) REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT
BEACH ROAD EXT – PHASE 2 PROJECT (PROJECT NO.
60249). ESTIMATED FISCAL IMPACT: $60,600
Item #16B2
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE PURCHASE OF RIGHT OF-WAY
(PARCEL 1375FEE) REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT
BEACH ROAD EXT – PHASE 2 PROJECT (PROJECT NO.
60249). ESTIMATED FISCAL IMPACT: $152,349
Item #16B3
THE FY 2024-2025, 10-YEAR CAPITAL PLANNING
DOCUMENT FOR TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS IN
TDC BEACH RENOURISHMENT FUND (1105) AND TDC
ENGINEERING FUND (1102) AND MAKE A FINDING THAT
THESE EXPENDITURES PROMOTE TOURISM – ALL GRANT
REQUESTS AND EXPENDITURE REQUESTS WILL BE
REVIEWED BY THE COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE, THE
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL, AND THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Item #16B4
THE TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL GRANT
APPLICATION REQUESTS FROM COLLIER COUNTY
COASTAL ZONE MANAGEMENT FOR FY 2024-2025 IN THE
AMOUNT OF $6,974,100, BUDGET THESE EXPENDITURES,
AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THESE EXPENDITURES
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PROMOTE TOURISM
Item #16B5
RESOLUTION 2024-174: A RESOLUTION SUPPORTING THE
COUNTY’S APPLICATIONS TO FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION FOR LONG RANGE
BUDGET PLAN REQUESTS FOR BEACH RENOURISHMENT
PROJECTS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2025/2026 AND MAKE A
FINDING THAT THESE PROJECTS PROMOTE TOURISM. THIS
ACTION MAINTAINS THE COUNTY'S ELIGIBILITY FOR
STATE COST SHARE FUNDING FOR FUTURE
RENOURISHMENT PROJECTS
Item #16B6 – (Continue to a Future Meeting)
INSTALL A BICYCLE/PEDESTRIAN CONNECTION BETWEEN
SEAGATE DRIVE AND CRAYTON ROAD AND DIRECT STAFF
TO CONSTRUCT THE CONNECTION, USING AN EXISTING
COLLIER COUNTY RIGHT-OF-WAY, WHICH WILL
IMPLEMENT AND IMPROVE PUBLIC SAFETY BY
ENHANCING A SAFER AND SMOOTHER TRANSITION FOR
WALKERS, RUNNERS, AND CYCLISTS - INITIAL COST
ESTIMATE FOR A 10’ CONCRETE OR ASPHALT PATHWAY IS
NOT EXPECTED TO EXCEED $50,000 FOR DESIGN AND
CONSTRUCTION
Item #16B7
AWARD INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 24-8232,
“LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE - MULTIPLE WORK AREAS,
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ROAD MAINTENANCE DIVISION,” TO MAINSCAPE, INC.,
SUPERB LANDSCAPE SERVICES, INC., AND SUPERIOR
LANDSCAPING & LAWN SERVICE, INC., AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENTS
Item #16B8
THE FISCAL YEAR 2024/2025 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN
OF THE BIG CYPRESS BASIN, A PART OF THE SOUTH
FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT (SFWMD) - THE
PLAN HAS NO FISCAL IMPACT TO COLLIER COUNTY
BUDGET APPROPRIATIONS FOR COUNTY OPERATED AND
MAINTAINED CANALS AND WATER CONTROL
STRUCTURES
Item #16C1
CHANGE ORDER NO. 2 TO EXTEND THE TASK TIMELINE
FOR TASK NO. 1 UNDER GRANT AGREEMENT LPA0495
WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION FOR THE “PALM RIVER PUBLIC UTILITIES
RENEWAL PROJECT - AREA 4” TO RECEIVE FULL
REIMBURSEMENT AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER. (PROJECT NO.
70257) - THE GRANTEE HAS UNTIL OCTOBER 31, 2025, TO
COMPLETE THE PROJECT AND SUBMIT ALL THE
DOCUMENTATION FOR EACH TASK FOR REIMBURSEMENT
Item #16C2
AGREEMENT NO. 24-033-NS-WV, WITH REXEL USA, INC.,
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September 24,2024
Page 256
AND AUTHORIZE EXPENDITURES UNDER BOARD
APPROVED STANDARDIZATION OF SPECIALIZED
PROPRIETARY EQUIPMENT AND SERVICES FOR “ALLEN
BRADLEY-ROCKWELL PRODUCTS AND SERVICES,” IN AN
ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF $3,000,000 PER FISCAL YEAR FOR
FIVE YEARS, FOR A TOTAL ESTIMATED SPEND OF
$15,000,000 OVER THE TERM OF THE AGREEMENT
Item #16C3
ADOPT THE FY2025 FEE SCHEDULES ESTABLISHED IN THE
ANNUAL RATE RESOLUTION FOR RESIDENTIAL AND
COMMERCIAL COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL OF SOLID
WASTE AND RECYCLING AT COLLIER COUNTY SOLID
WASTE FACILITIES, INCLUDING THE LANDFILL, TRANSFER
STATION, AND RECYCLING DROP-OFF CENTERS AS
PRESENTED IN THE FY2025 SOLID WASTE BUDGET - THE
MANDATORY SOLID WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL
ASSESSMENTS WILL PROVIDE ESTIMATED FY2025
REVENUES OF $36,088,800 FOR THE MANDATORY
TRASH COLLECTION FUND
Item #16C4
CHANGE ORDER NO. 3 AT A TOTAL COST OF $18,307.33,
UTILIZING THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCES, ADD A TOTAL OF
FOUR DAYS TO AGREEMENT NO. 21-7938, WITH R2T, INC.,
FOR THE “MASTER PUMP STATION 302.00 SITE
IMPROVEMENTS” PROJECT, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT NO. 70215)
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September 24,2024
Page 257
Item #16C5
AWARD A REQUEST FOR QUOTATION (“RFQ”) UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 19-7622, “WASTEWATER PUMP STATION
REPAIR AND RENOVATION,” FOR THE PUMP STATION 304.08
REHABILITATION PROJECT TO PRECISION LIFT STATIONS,
INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $489,648, APPROVE AN OWNER’S
ALLOWANCE OF $30,000, AND AUTHORIZE STAFF TO OPEN
A PURCHASE ORDER FOR THE WORK. (PROJECT NUMBER
70240) – ON MARCH 27, 2024, THE COUNTY DISTRIBUTED A
REQUEST FOR QUOTATION FOR THE PUMP STATION 304.08
REHABILITATION PROJECT TO THE FOUR CONTRACTORS
UNDER THE ANNUAL AGREEMENT FOR WASTEWATER
PUMP STATION REPAIR AND RENOVATION AGREEMENT
NO. 19-7622
Item #16D1
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE
EMERGENCY SOLUTIONS GRANT SUBRECIPIENT
AGREEMENT #ES23-01 BETWEEN THE SHELTER FOR
ABUSED WOMEN & CHILDREN, INC., AND COLLIER
COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO MODIFY
THE PERIOD OF PERFORMANCE AND NOTICE
INFORMATION. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835, PROJECT
33856)
Item #16D2
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN ONE (1) MORTGAGE
SATISFACTION FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
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September 24,2024
Page 258
PARTNERSHIP (SHIP) PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF
$60,000, DUE TO THE DEATH OF THE RECIPIENT. (SHIP
GRANT FUND 1053) – THE REHABILITATION PROGRAM
OFFERS AN ALTERNATE REPAYMENT PROGRAM WHICH
FORGIVES 1/3 OF THE LOAN AT THE END OF EACH 5TH
YEAR FOR FIFTEEN (15) YEARS
Item #16D3
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN TWENTY-EIGHT (28) MORTGAGE
SATISFACTIONS FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP LOAN PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF
$420,459.00. (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053) – IF ALL CONDITIONS
OF THE LOAN ARE MET, ONE-THIRD OF THE LOAN WILL BE
FORGIVEN IN FIVE-YEAR INCREMENTS SO THAT AT THE
END OF THE FIFTEENTH (15TH) YEAR THE LOAN IS FULLY
FORGIVEN
Item #16D4
THE FY24-25 CONTRACT WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH FOR THE OPERATION OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT IN THE AMOUNT
OF $1,490,200
Item #16D5
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A LOW INCOME POOL LETTER OF
AGREEMENT WITH THE AGENCY FOR HEALTH CARE
ADMINISTRATION IN THE AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED
$1,719,499.44, TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEDICAID CENTRAL
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September 24,2024
Page 259
RECEIVING FACILITY LOW INCOME POOL PROGRAM,
GENERATING $2,295,209 IN FEDERAL MATCHING FUNDS
FOR THE BENEFIT OF DAVID LAWRENCE MENTAL HEALTH
CENTER TO ASSIST IN MEETING THE STATE REQUIRED
MATCH OBLIGATION, AND AUTHORIZE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO THE FY25 BUDGET IN THE
AMOUNT $303,999.44. (FISCAL IMPACT $1,719,499.44)
Item #16D6
AN ADDITIONAL $37,145.00 AND APPROVE A LOW INCOME
POOL LETTER OF AGREEMENT WITH THE AGENCY FOR
HEALTH CARE ADMINISTRATION, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$543,345 TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEDICAID LOW INCOME
POOL PROGRAM, GENERATING $345,455 IN FEDERAL
MATCHING FUNDS THAT WILL PROVIDE ADDITIONAL
HEALTH SERVICES FOR THE CITIZENS OF COLLIER
COUNTY AND AUTHORIZE (B) THE NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENT AND (C) THE COUNTY MANAGER OR HER
DESIGNEE TO SIGN AND EXECUTE THE AHCA LIP LETTER
OF AGREEMENT (FISCAL IMPACT $ 543,345)
Item #16D7
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE
2025-2027 URBAN COUNTY COOPERATION AGREEMENT
WITH THE CITY OF MARCO ISLAND UPON RECEIPT AND
AUTHORIZE STAFF TO FORWARD THE SUPPORTING
DOCUMENTATION TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING
AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT TO COMPLY WITH HUD’S
URBAN COUNTY REQUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS. (NO
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September 24,2024
Page 260
FISCAL IMPACT) -THE URBAN COUNTY COOPERATION
AGREEMENTS WERE EXECUTED BY THE CITY OF NAPLES
AND THE CITY OF MARCO ISLAND AND APPROVED BY THE
BOARD ON JULY 9, 2024, AGENDA ITEM 16.D.3
Item #16E1
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO FUND 5017 (GROUP HEALTH AND
LIFE INSURANCE), TO PAY HEALTH AND PHARMACY
CLAIMS EXPENDITURES FOR THE REMAINDER
OF FY 2024 – FUND RESERVES WILL REMAIN SUFFICIENT
TO MEET STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS
Item #16E2
AN ASSUMPTION AGREEMENT ASSIGNING ALL RIGHTS,
DUTIES, BENEFITS, AND OBLIGATIONS CONCERNING
AGREEMENT #21-7917, “EMS EXPENDABLE MEDICAL
SUPPLIES” TO BOUND TREE MEDICAL, LLC, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE SAME
Item #16E3
RESOLUTION 2024-175: RESOLUTION ADOPTING THE PAY
AND CLASSIFICATION PLANS FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AND COUNTY MANAGER’S AGENCY,
NON-UNION EMS, AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE
EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 1, 2024; TO PROVIDE A GENERAL
WAGE ADJUSTMENT TO ELIGIBLE EMPLOYEES EFFECTIVE
OCTOBER 5, 2024; AND TO APPROVE THE CREATION OF
NEW CLASSIFICATIONS, MODIFICATION AND/OR
Page 275 of 5419
September 24,2024
Page 261
DELETION OF CLASSIFICATIONS AND ASSIGNMENT OF PAY
RANGES FROM THE PROPOSED PAY AND CLASSIFICATION
PLANS, FROM JULY 1, 2024 FORWARD USING THE EXISTING
POINT-FACTOR JOB EVALUATION SYSTEM AND MARKET
DATA; AND TO AUTHORIZE ANY NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN FY2025 – CHANGES INCLUDE A
SIGNIFICANT INCREASE TO THE SALARY THRESHOLD FOR
EXEMPT CLASSIFIED POSITIONS, WHICH WOULD IMPACT A
PORTION OF THE COUNTY MANAGER’S AGENCY PAY AND
CLASSIFICATION PLAN
Item #16F1
THE ANNUAL PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL FOR THE
COUNTY MANAGER - THE APPROVED STRATEGIC
PLAN, INCLUDING THE 2024 UPDATE, ESTABLISHES THE
STRATEGIC FOCUS AREAS AND THE COLLIER COUNTY
PRIORITIES FOR THE ANNUAL, AND ONGOING WORK PLAN
(ACTION PLAN)
Item #16F2
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EXTENDS THE
COUNTY MANAGER EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT TO
SEPTEMBER 30, 2027 - THERE IS NO CHANGE IN TOTAL
AMOUNT OF COMPENSATION (SALARY AND BENEFITS)
Item #16F3
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT
TO THE AGREEMENT FOR MEDICAL EXAMINER SERVICES
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September 24,2024
Page 262
(AGREEMENT NO. 11-5776 - MEDICAL EXAMINER), WHICH
WILL EXTEND THE TERM OF THE AGREEMENT TO
SEPTEMBER 30, 2025 - FUNDING FOR THIS AMENDMENT,
TOTALING $2,248,400, IS INCLUDED WITH THE FY2025
MEDICAL EXAMINERS SERVICES BUDGET REQUEST
WITHIN GENERAL FUND (0001)
Item #16F4
AN EXTENSION OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT TO THE
INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY
AND THE CITY OF NAPLES, GOVERNING THE USE OF CITY
OF NAPLES BEACH PARKING FACILITIES AND PARK AND
RECREATION PROGRAMS, TO SEPTEMBER 30, 2025 -
FUNDING FOR THIS AGREEMENT IS INCLUDED IN THE FY
2025 TENTATIVE BUDGET
Item #16F5
AN ACCESS EASEMENT TO FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT CO.
TO PROVIDE UPGRADED FPL INFRASTRUCTURE TO
SERVICE THE PELICAN BAY SERVICE DIVISION’S
MAINTENANCE FACILITY, CHEMICAL STORAGE, AND
EQUIPMENT STORAGE BUILDINGS, AT THE PELICAN BAY-
NEW PLANT AT 6200 WATERGATE WAY, NAPLES, FLORIDA
Item #16F6
RENEW THE ANNUAL CERTIFICATE OF PUBLIC
CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY (COPCN) FOR AMBITRANS
MEDICAL TRANSPORT, INC., TO PROVIDE CLASS 2
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September 24,2024
Page 263
ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT (ALS) INTER-FACILITY
TRANSPORT AMBULANCE SERVICE FOR A PERIOD OF ONE
YEAR
Item #16F7
RESOLUTION 2024-176: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
INTERGOVERNMENTAL TRANSFERS (IGT) BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY EMS AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA
AGENCY FOR HEALTH CARE ADMINISTRATION (AHCA)
FOR FY25, TO AUTHORIZE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN AN
AGREEMENT WITH AHCA TO ACCEPT DIRECT PAYMENTS
FROM THE PROGRAM NAMED STATEWIDE MEDICAID
MANAGED CARE (SMMC) FOR FY25, AND TO APPROVE THE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16F8
RESOLUTION 2024-177: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2023-24 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
Item #16F9
THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE TWENTY-FOUR (24) DEED
CERTIFICATES FOR PURCHASED BURIAL RIGHTS AT LAKE
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September 24,2024
Page 264
TRAFFORD MEMORIAL GARDENS CEMETERY AND
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO
TAKE ALL ACTIONS NECESSARY TO RECORD THE DEED
CERTIFICATES WITH THE CLERK OF THE COURT’S
RECORDING DEPARTMENT – PLOT SALE RECEIPTS ARE
DEPOSITED IN GENERAL FUND (0001), IMMOKALEE
CEMETERY COST CENTER 122370
Item #16F10
A THREE-YEAR SPONSORSHIP AGREEMENT WITH FC
NAPLES FOR AN ANNUAL TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX
EXPENDITURE OF $149,000, TOTALING $447,000 FOR THE
UNITED SOCCER LEAGUE (USL) 2025-2027 SEASONS,
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THE RELATED
EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM
Item #16F11
AWARD INVITATION TO BID NO. 24-8250, “GOLDEN GATE
GOLF COURSE OUTFALL SWALE," TO SOUTH FLORIDA
EXCAVATION, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,657,712,
APPROVE AN OWNER’S ALLOWANCE OF $220,000, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT (PROJECT NO. 80412) - FUNDING IN THE
AMOUNT OF $1,877,712 IS AVAILABLE WITHIN THE COUNTY
WIDE CAPITAL PROJECT FUND (3001), GG GOLF COURSE
PROJECT 80412
Item #16F12
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September 24,2024
Page 265
AN AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$76,571.78 TO UNITED MECHANICAL, INC., FOR THE
COURTHOUSE LOUVER REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT
PROJECT UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 18-7313 FOR HVAC
REPLACEMENT AND NEW INSTALLATIONS
Item #16F13
AWARD INVITATION TO BID NO. 24-8248, “PREVENTATIVE
MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS OF PUMPS AND ANCILLARY
EQUIPMENT FOR AQUATIC FACILITIES,” TO JOHN MADER
ENTERPRISES, INC., D/B/A MADER ELECTRIC MOTORS, IN
THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF $200,000 PER YEAR, AND
APPROXIMATELY $1,000,000 FOR THE DURATION OF THE
AGREEMENT, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN
THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT – THE COUNTY RECEIVED
FOUR (4) BIDS BY THE JUNE 12, 2024
Item #16J1
A BUDGET AMENDMENT RECOGNIZING A FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF STATE, DIVISION OF ELECTIONS,
2024/2025 ELECTION SECURITY FUNDS GRANT AWARD IN
THE AMOUNT OF $11,160 - SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS
GRANT FUND (1800)
Item #16J2
EXTEND THE 2024 TAX ROLL AT THE REQUEST OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR, ROB STONEBURNER -
PAST NOVEMBER 1, 2024
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September 24,2024
Page 266
Item #16J3
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF SEPTEMBER 18,
2024 - INVOICES INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BOND
PAYMENTS, UTILITIES FOR EXISTING COUNTY BUILDINGS,
AND LEASE PAYMENTS FOR APPROVED LEASES ARE NOT
INCLUDED ON THIS LIST IF THEY HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY
APPROVED BY THE BOARD
Item #16K1
ANNUAL PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL FOR THE COUNTY
ATTORNEY - ALL SUCH MERIT ADJUSTMENTS SHALL BE
INCLUDED IN THE EMPLOYEE’S BASE SALARY
Item #16K2
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EXTENDS THE
COUNTY ATTORNEY EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT TO
SEPTEMBER 30, 2027 - NO CHANGE IN TOTAL AMOUNT OF
COMPENSATION (SALARY AND BENEFITS)
Item #16K3
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS REVIEWS AND
APPROVES THE PROPOSED FY 2024 - 2025 ACTION PLAN
FOR JEFFREY A. KLATZKOW, COUNTY ATTORNEY
Item #16K4
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September 24,2024
Page 267
RESOLUTION 2024-178: DECLARE TWO VACANCIES ON THE
BLACK AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD - DARNELL JOHNSON
AND DARREN BECKFORD HAVE NOT ATTENDED ANY OF
THE BLACK AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD MEETINGS THIS
YEAR AND HAVE BEEN UNRESPONSIVE TO ATTEMPTS OF
CONTACT
Item #16K5
RESOLUTION 2024-179: TO REAPPOINT BERNARDO
BARNHART TO THE IMMOKALEE BEAUTIFICATION
ADVISORY COMMITTEE - THE REMAINING VACANCIES
WILL CONTINUE TO BE ADVERTISED
Item #17A - Moved to Item #9F (Per Agenda Change Sheet))
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2024-35: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE
COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO ALLOW
FOR THE ISSUANCE OF BUILDING PERMITS AFTER THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APPROVES A FINAL
SUBDIVISION PLAT BUT BEFORE ITS RECORDATION AND
TO RENAME THE OPTIONAL PRELIMINARY PLATS TO
CONCEPTUAL PLAT WITH DEVIATIONS. (PL20240008157)
(COMPANION TO ITEM 16A1) – THE COST ASSOCIATED
WITH ADVERTISING THE ORDINANCE IS ESTIMATED AT
$1,008.00
Item #17C
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September 24,2024
Page 268
ORDINANCE 2024-36: ORDINANCE NUMBER 2021-20 AS
AMENDED, THE BCHD 1 COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT (CPUD), BY INCREASING THE MAXIMUM
COMMERCIAL GROSS FLOOR AREA FROM 100,000 TO
130,000 SQUARE FEET WITH NO CHANGE TO THE INDOOR
SELF-STORAGE FLOOR AREA AND ADDING INDOOR GOLF
CART RETAIL SALES AS A PERMITTED USE. THE
PROPERTY IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY ONE-HALF MILE
NORTH OF RANDALL BOULEVARD ON THE WEST SIDE OF
IMMOKALEE ROAD, IN SECTION 22, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH,
RANGE 27 EAST, WITH THE ENTIRE PUD CONSISTING OF
21.82± ACRES. (PL200230017803) (COMPANION TO ITEM 17D
(PL20230018187)) - THE CCPC VOTED 6-0 TO FORWARD THIS
PETITION TO THE BOARD WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF
APPROVAL
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2024-37: AN ORDINANCE OF THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE
COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE
UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
SPECIFICALLY AMENDING THE RURAL GOLDEN GATE
ESTATES SUB-ELEMENT OF THE GOLDEN GATE AREA
MASTER PLAN ELEMENT TO REVISE THE IMMOKALEE
ROAD – ESTATES COMMERCIAL SUBDISTRICT TO
INCREASE THE MAXIMUM COMMERCIAL GROSS FLOOR
AREA FROM 100,000 TO 130,000 SQUARE FEET WITH NO
CHANGE TO THE INDOOR SELF-STORAGE FLOOR AREA
AND TO ADD INDOOR GOLF CART RETAIL SALES AS A
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September 24,2024
Page 269
PERMITTED USE; AND FURTHERMORE, DIRECTING
TRANSMITTAL OF THE ADOPTED AMENDMENT TO THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE; PROVIDING FOR
SEVERABILITY AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, CONSISTING OF ±21.82 ACRES, IS
LOCATED APPROXIMATELY ONE-HALF MILE NORTH OF
RANDALL BOULEVARD ON THE WEST SIDE OF
IMMOKALEE ROAD, IN SECTION 22, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH,
RANGE 27 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA.
(PL20230018187) (COMPANION TO ITEM 17C
(PL200230017803) – IMPACT FEES AND TAXES COLLECTED
WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE CRITERIA USED BY STAFF
AND THE CCPC TO ANALYZE THIS PETITION
Item #17E
ORDINANCE 2024-38: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. 2022-13, AS AMENDED, THE GOLDEN GATE
GOLF COURSE MIXED-USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
(MPUD) TO REMOVE THE PUBLIC USE TRACT AND
INCREASE THE ACREAGE OF THE COMMUNITY FACILITY
TRACT; TO ADD ADULT DAY CARE/HEALTH CARE AS AN
ACCESSORY USE; AND ADD DEVIATIONS RELATING TO THE
GREENWAY AND GOLF PRO SHOP. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY,
CONSISTING OF 171.6+/- ACRES, IS LOCATED ON THE
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY AND
COLLIER BOULEVARD IN SECTION 27, TOWNSHIP 49
SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA.
(PL20230002800) - THE TRANSPORTATION PLANNING STAFF
FINDS THE PETITION CONSISTENT WITH THE GMP
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September 24,2024
Page 270
Item #17F
RESOLUTION 2024-180: PETITION VAC-PL20240006584, TO
DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE, AND VACATE THE COUNTY AND
THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN THE SIX-FOOT DRAINAGE
EASEMENT LOCATED ALONG THE BORDER BETWEEN
LOTS 42 AND 43 OF AVONDALE ESTATE, AS RECORDED IN
PLAT BOOK 4, PAGE 45 OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, LOCATED APPROXIMATELY
400 FEET SOUTH OF DAVIS BLVD., AND 800 FEET EAST OF
COMMERCIAL DRIVE, IN SECTION 11, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH,
RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #17G
ORDINANCE 20024-39: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ARTICLE IV, SECTION 22 -110, “EXCAVATION REVIEW
PROCEDURES,” OF THE CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES
OF COLLIER COUNTY TO ALLOW STAFF TO
ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVE LIMITED EXCAVATION
REMOVAL AS PART OF A DEVELOPMENT EXCAVATION
PERMIT
Item #17H
ORDINANCE 2024-40: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE 2023-64, WHICH ADOPTED THE FLORIDA
BUILDING CODE, EIGHTH EDITION (2023), BY ADDING
CERTAIN AMENDMENTS - THIS ORDINANCE AMENDS
SECTION 110.3 TO REQUIRE A SPOT SURVEY TO BE
PROVIDED AFTER A FOUNDATION INSPECTION IS PASSED
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September 24,2024
Page 271
OR PRIOR TO A STRUCTURE RECEIVING A CERTIFICATE OF
OCCUPANCY OR CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION IF THERE
IS NO FOUNDATION INSPECTION
Item #17I
RESOLUTION 2024-181: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 ADOPTED BUDGET - PUBLIC
HEARING TO AMEND THE BUDGET FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024-
25
Item #17J
RESOLUTION 2024-182: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2023-24 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
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September 24,2024
Page 272
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 5:20 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
CHRIS HALL, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
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