HAPB Minutes 08/16/2024COLLIER COUNTY
HISTORIC/ARCHAEOLOGICAL PRESERVATION BOARD MEETING (HAPB)
MINUTES
FRIDAY, AUG. 161 2024
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, the Collier County Historic/Archaeological Preservation
Board in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this
date at 9:30 AM in REGULAR SESSION at 2800 Horseshoe Drive, Naples, Florida, with
the following members present:
BOARD: Zach Burch, Chairman
Betsy Perdichizzi
Hank Sentowski
Janice O'Connell
Barry O'Brien (excused)
ALSO PRESENT: Ray Bellows, Zoning Manager
Tim Finn - Planner
Amanda Townsend, Director of Museums
1. Roll Call/Attendance
. Zach Burch: Quorum established.
2. ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
• No changes.
3. Approval of Agenda
• Motion passed, Agenda approved
4. Approval of Minutes, April 19, 2024 & June 21, 2024
• Janice O'Connell: I'll make a motion to approve, but I do have a comment.
My question is on item 2 to adjourn. It states Miss O'Connell confirmed the next
meeting date of August.
I don't think I have any authority to confirm the next meeting date.
• Zach Burch: Motion to approve with change on item 2 from Ms. O'Connell to
Barry O'Brien.
5. Old Business
Rosemary Cemetery (Plot W) Historic Designation
• Amanda Townsend: I think you're all now familiar with the story of Rosemary
Cemetery and our efforts to secure plots W and N, which we have now done
through a quitclaim deed process.
• Our next steps are for this Board, if appropriate, to recommend it to the
Board of County Commissioners to deem those two parcels as historically
significant in Collier County.
• And then we're also going to move forward with some arrangements on how
we're going to manage those parcels.
Introducing my friend Jonathan Rodriguez, who is an Eagle Scout candidate and has
taken on assuring that plot N is recognized by the public as his Eagle Scout project. He
will explain why he feels it should be designated as historically significant.
Jonathan Rodriguez
My name is Jonathan Rodriguez. I was born and raised here in Naples, Florida. The
reason I feel like this is a significant project is because I learned about Rosemary
cemetery when I was little from my Mother.
I was told that I had to do an Eagle Scout project to earn my Eagle, I immediately
thought back to Rosemary Cemetery. This is a portion of our history which may not be
the prettiest with our current times, but it's still our history. And the best thing we can
do is to basically bring it up to standards.
The cemetery was basically left barren with nothing but a few plots of wood to show
where the bodies have been buried. And I figured that what I could do for my
community is to take this site and bring it up to standards by giving, by putting
gravestones in of who these people were, learning as much history as we can about
them, and basically showing the community that we can always do better.
And that's why I feel like this project is significant not only for our community as a
whole, but also to all of us.
• Zach Burch: So that's as it relates to plot N, which is the one along Goodlette.
So what is it that we are looking at happening today?
• Ray Bellows: Today is a presentation of the two plots, their historical
significance and discussion amongst the board. I'm a little remiss in that I forgot
about a step in the historic designation process, which is a 30 day public notice.
So you can discuss this item today.
Unfortunately, it'll have to come back to you for a formal vote at your October
meeting, because we'll have to get that 30 day public notice process done in the
meantime. But you'll have all the information at your disposal. I've completed
those applications and done a little analysis of the parcels against the historic
designation criteria. Each parcel is different.
Of course. There's some significance to plot N that doesn't apply to W for
example, we know there are African Americans buried there. Because that does
teach us a lesson about segregation in our county, in our State and our Country.
There is a significance to plot N in that what we're doing right now is part
of a movement that someday will be remembered in history, to remember
African American cemeteries which have been on the National consciousness.
Alma Adams is the congressman from North Carolina who introduced legislation
to Congress in 2019 that was finally passed in 2022 to recognize lost black
cemeteries nationally. So we're actually part of a national conversation as we're
trying to do the right thing here with plot N, which I think is very interesting with
respect to treatment going forward.
We do have an arrangement that we're formalizing and we'll take to the Board
simultaneous to the deeds and hopefully the recommendation for a historic
designation.
The Barron Collier Companies who own the plaza immediately adjacent to plot
N have very graciously offered to landscape and maintain plot N for the County.
Jonathan will be working to secure headstones and a historic marker for plot N
that's going to be his component of the. project.
It is very generous of Barron Collier Companies to offer that and we'll put
together a little cooperative agreement should the Board decide to enter into
that similar to Unit B.
With respect to plot W, we're still doing a lot of research on this; who is buried in
plot W and what we know about their lives. It's possible that the people buried
in plot W are there because there was some separation socially from the folks
who are in unit B. There's some, for example, in crackers in the Glade.
Rob Storter remembers that there are people buried in Rosemary Cemetery who
had taken their own lives. And it's very possible that the social norms of the time
would have considered those people ungodly and they could have been buried
separately. That's speculation on my part. That's not historical accuracy.
One thing that has become clear to me as I've learned more about the people,
even who are buried in unit B, is that they were mostly the working class of our
community.
Ed Creighton donated the land for Rosemary Cemetery but he's not buried
there. He's buried in Woodlawn in Columbus, Ohio. As we're finding out about
the lives of these people, many of our more well respected leaders and powerful
or wealthy people, maintained their connections to their hometowns up north
and ended up being buried there. And some of our town's working people who
are buried in Rosemary Cemetery.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: Ed Creighton is a name that sticks in my memory. It seems
to me like he had property on little Marco.
• Amanda Townsend: He was the president of the Naples Improvement
Company and personally financed several different projects to advance Naples.
There was a lot of fluidity among communities at that time so He may have been
a landowner on Marco.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: I know it's down the road, but will some of this be reflected
in our brochure, our County brochure about the cemetery?
• Amanda Townsend: Absolutely. If we do a reprint, we'll certainly add new
information that we know.
• Janice O'Connell: I think we're clearing hurdle number two at this point. There
will be some expenses associated with this and I will see what the one time
expenses are and what the annual expenses will be.
It appears that the estimated portion of the project is available within Museum
fund 198 reserves for capital. So there will be no additional impact other than
when they replace those capital funds.
• Amanda Townsend: Things have changed since that executive summary is
from 2021. It appears now that there will be no cost to Collier County for Plot N
because through the donations that Jonathan has raised, he'll be able to do the
headstones and the marker. And then Baron Collier companies is donating the
landscaping.
• Janice O'Connell: So that's why the improvements now on the items scheduled
to go to the Board of County Commissioners are 27,543 versus 37. This is from
2021.
What is the future action to this item that is required to accept ownership? What
will that involve? What cost is associated with that?
• Janice Townsend: We've secured the quit claim deeds, and we'll bring the
historic designation and the deeds and an arrangement with Barron Collier
companies to the board all at once, either in November or December, after your
October meeting. And it'll cost us $62.50 to record the deeds.
To close the loop a little bit on that conversation about costs, it will still be
incumbent upon county staff to decide what the treatment will be and what the
cost will be associated with plot W. And what I want to do right now is hold that
in abeyance a little bit, because it's possible that we could make an
arrangement with that plaza owner, as we have Barron Collier Companies.
• Ray Bellows: For the record, the idea is that if anyone in the public wanted to
come and speak on behalf of HABB's vote on historic designation, they need an
opportunity to come. We didn't advertise it for that yet. So the next meeting will
be advertised to vote on this item, and then they also have a final chance when
it goes before the board of county commissioners.
• Zach Burch: Can you help me understand where the plot is?
• Amanda Townsend: You can kind of tell where it is. If you're familiar with that
plaza, it's a little bit of an L shape. And the asian market is sort of, if you're
facing the plaza facing south, the asian market is on your left hand side, and if,
you know it has a ramp and then almost like a little, I guess you could call it a
balcony in front of the store. If you were to stand on that balcony and look
down, you would be looking right at Plot W.
There's a little brick border around it at times. People will put small memorials
there.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: I thought back to what you said about your mother knowing
about Rosemary Cemetery and why she did this.
MARIA HERRAR RODRIGUEZ
I work at Lely High School (Grade School?) and am very proud of my son. In 1992,
when I was in high school, my choir teacher, Kelly Hardman Parker, one day walked in
election time, and she was really upset that someone, a proposed elected official, had
put their signs on the intersection of Pine Ridge Road and Goodlette.
We didn't understand why she was upset. There are signs on every corner. She
explained that that was a cemetery, a segregated cemetery. We grew up here but never
knew about it.
My brother and I took it upon ourselves that every two to four years, whenever there
was an election in town, we would drive to that intersection, write down the phone
numbers of any potential elected official that had put their signs there. We would call
them, say, hey, do you know that you actually put your sign over a few grave spots?
And most of them gladly said, oh, no, I did not know. We will remove them
immediately.
On a few occasions, we'd come back the next day and they would still be there, and
we'd make another phone call, maybe not so nice, and say, you need to remove them
today, or we're calling the news, and then immediately they would be gone. So it was
something that was important to me, and I made sure that everyone I knew about Plot
N and I educated my son about Plot N. It was something that was important to me,
and it thankfully became important to him enough to choose that as his Eagle Scout
project.
I'm really proud that he, even though he completes his Eagle Scout project with plot N,
that he still wants to see plot W through. Even though it won't be part of his Eagle
project, he's going to be helping to recruit some other young man or young lady to take
this on as their Eagle project, and helping them to get it completed.
• Ray Bellows: Just a follow up. The next step will be we'll advertise it for an
official vote and we'll schedule it for a Board of County Commissioners meeting.
There are 2 ways to present this to the Board. A summary agenda item or some
kind of presentation. I don't know if you or anybody else want to be involved in a
presentation.
• Amanda Townsend: I do and I also want to make sure other folks are involved
in the conversation like the NAACP. I'll be reaching out to Vincent within the next
week. And of course, we owe Barron Collier Companies a big thanks as well.
6. New Business
A. Board Membership
• Zach Burch:That brings us to new business and new business is candidate
applications, which is good because it's been a long time with none. And now
we have a glut of applications.
This was prompted by the resignation retirement of our past chair, Austin Bell,
who had to move out of the area and leave his seat. So we have four
applications for that. And I think there's probably some discussion. But I guess
just for the record, we are to make a recommendation for one person?
• Ray Bellows: The board would like a recommendation from the Preservation
Board. Who would be the best fit for the position that's open.
• Zach Burch: My question was, I know there are specific fields that our members
are supposed to fit into. History, archaeology, real estate, land development,
finance, architecture, law and urban planning. And then two positions to be filled
by citizens at large, according to the website.
The last meeting there were a few people missing, including myself. But I told
you beforehand that I wasn't going to be here. I was told that there was going to
be a quorum for the meeting. I noticed that there was not a quorum for the
meeting. I'm assuming that means that somebody who said they were going to
be here did not show up. I know we've had one member. I don't remember the
last time I saw her at the meeting, which, given that we never had any sort of
applicants before, was kind of like, well, what are we going to do about it? But I
don't know if there's a process, because we certainly now we have four
interested people, and I'm sure there are any number of great reasons why she h
has not attended this year.
• Ray Bellows: I was talking to Tim earlier. I'm just going to give her a call and try
to talk to her instead of the email and that doesn't seem to get a response. But
there are attendance requirements and she's way past those for excused
absences. You can have more than, if they're excused, but they're unexcused,
then you only get two, I believe.
• Zach Burch: So assuming, like you said, she's well past both potentially the
excused and unexcused absence kind of requirements, what is the process?
• Ray Bellows: I think it starts with a motion by the HAPV and then that's
forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners to take action to repost it.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: If you say that you're going to plan to call her, could you, you
know, if she is not interested, maybe ask her if she considered resigning other
than having it go through the alternative method.
• Ray Bellows: We will call her and see if she's going to attend, plans to attend,
or if she just prefers to resign.
So for today, we have a history category open, and so the best candidate to fill
the history should be selected. In your opinion, did you say Cindy Carroll?
• Zach Burch:
So architecture would be a potential open one, as well as law or urban planning,
which I would guess then also bring in Miss Hanson as well. And then the other
two apply to citizens at large, which are not currently open, though Miss
Johnson is a citizen at large.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: I would like to recommend Cindy Carroll.
• Zach Burch: I don't know if we had a second for that, but I know we have a
motion and a second for Miss Carroll. So I guess appropriately just take a vote
on that then, I guess at this point, yes. All right, so we have a motion by Miss
Perdichizzi and a second by Miss O'Connell to recommend Cindy Carroll to the
board of county commissioners to fill the vacant seat on the HAPB.
Representing the history category. All in favor?
• Hank Sentowski: I am opposed. I would like to review the resumes again.
• Ray Bellows: We'll take a five minute break.
• Ray Sentowski: I can't find the email that I received about maintaining myself
as a Member of this Board.
• Ray Bellows: We'll talk to Wanda Rodriguez to have her resend it.
• Zach Burch: We are back now from our recess. I guess, on item 6a, which is
HAPV candidate applications, I think everyone now has had a chance to re
review based on looking at the criteria that we needed to for the seats we
needed to fill. And so does anybody have any further discussion or questions?
MOTION PASSED 4-0 All members voting to support Cindy Carroll. We will prepare
everything that needs to go to the Board.
• Ray Bellows: I will prepare a memorandum to Wanda outlining the vote and
reinforcing. This is for the history category, and she will put it on the Board of
County Commissioner agenda. Those are usually on the consent agenda, and
we get noticed. And the same for anyone who's coming. Term is also expiring in
October. Please respond to Wanda through that email, and we'll make sure that
you get a copy.
B. Huey Howard - Historic designation of property and street name change.
• Zach Burch: Historic designation of property and street name change. I don't
know if someone needs to introduce this. I was a little confused by it. There's a
lot of great information about Mr. Howard, but I wasn't 100% sure what we were
actually doing.
• Ray Bellows: This came about as a result of a request of a County
Commissioner to designate a street segment to rename it Huey Howard Avenue
or Street.
And when I heard that staff is working on changing the street name because of
the historic significance of Mister Howard, I said this seems like maybe a natural
tie in as a companion item before the Board to have a historic designation of his
branch holdings.
We are working with Transportation. The planner is Kathy Easterly. We met with
her a few days ago and she was trying to get more information from the
Commissioner about logistics of the length of the road segment to be renamed.
The Street is in Immokalee.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: I am not familiar with Huey Howard.
• Ray Bellows: The only thing I know is the newspaper article that was done, that
was part of your packet. But as part of today's discussion, if there is interest, to
dig deeper and find more information about historic significance that could
result in a future application.
We are trying to reach out and talk to Mister Howard to see if he would or
somebody representing him would submit an application. That makes our job a
little easier. If it's the other way around, the preservation board initiates it. It's a I
little more difficult process. The subject of the designation would have to
support that.
• Amanda Townsend: Mr. Howard's in his eighties now. The Howards were the
honored family for the Immokalee Cattle Drive in 2022.
We've had a Harvest program, more like a lecture program out at the ranch
several years ago with Mister Howard and as many of his children that we could
gather who kind of passed the microphone and told family stories.
They really have contributed to the Immokalee community very significantly, very
significant. As African Americans who have really created a distinguished legacy
for their family. They truly deserve the honor.
• Betsy Perdichizzi: Based on the information that is on the agenda and some
explanation we've received here at the meeting. Am I to understand that the
street name change is something separate from a historic designation?
• Ray Bellows: Yes. I think the best course of action is to keep those processes
separate. They have their own individual criteria to meet for a street name
change. It's going through an advertised public hearing.
This issue came to our radar, a street name change because of the historic
qualities of the Howard family. And so they're naming a street. Why not see if we
can put a plaque on the ranch property and designate that?
I think the historic designation has criteria. And the Preservation Board would
have to determine if the historic qualities of the ranch, how long it's been
operating and what it was like to be one of the first African American ranchers in
South Florida. That would all come to play in your decision whether to support a
designation or not.
If we don't get information quickly from the Howard family, if they're willing to
submit an application, would the preservation board be willing or do you want to
just hold off until we hear from them?
• Zach Burch: I think especially given what we talked about with the cemetery
earlier and sort of recognizing some of our African American pioneers here in the
area, I'd be happy to look at it. I think my preference personally would be to
reach out to them to see if it was something they were interested in. I certainly
wouldn't want to force this on somebody if they don't want it. And if they're
interested and they want to let them know that we'd be happy to work with them
on it to apply.
• Ray Bellows: That's what we are looking for, is that kind of guidance. We will be
reaching out to them to see if there's a desire on their part to work with the
preservation board to get a historic designation.
C. Waiver for 174 Cocohatchee Blvd. Variance
• Ray Bellows: For the record this application came about when the proposed
improvements to an existing dwelling to subject property. Our code requires us to
check the historic archaeological probability maps for any new development or
redevelopment of sites. This one is in an area of historic archaeological
probability, meaning we don't know for sure that there's an archaeological
mound involved.
But before they issue, the County would issue a permit for them to redevelop. We
want to know if there are archaeological artifacts or if they want to submit a
waiver and do they have justification to get the waiver approved. And so
they're trying to outline justifications for approval of the waiver given the house
has been developed and no archaeological artifacts were originally discovered.
• Zach Burch: Can you remind me what we did with the one right next door 182?
• Ray Bellows: That was the one where they had that kind of split of land that
goes out to the River and it is right next to that. The house was build in 1974.
• Zach Burch: I'm looking at the justification for the request of the waiver. No
recorded historical resources on a subject property or on the already developed
bank of the river. I don't really see why we would treat this one differently.
Unless anybody has any other comments, I'm open to a motion. For 182 we
approved the waiver without any conditions.
MOTION PASSED
7. REVIEW OF PROJECT AND ACTIVITY LOG
• Zach Burch: Item seven, review of the project and activity log. I don't know
there was anything really new. Although hopefully we'll have some things to
update on the Rosemary Cemetery here before too long.
Was there anything else? I didn't notice anything.
Okay, unless there is anything else, we'll move on to public comments.
8. PUBLIC COMMENTS:
• Amanda Townsend: I'll make a couple of shameless museum plugs, if you
don't mind. Two, I'll bring to your attention things coming up in our fall
programming series that are related to things tangentially to things that we
talked about here today. And they're both parts of our second Tuesday lecture
series at the Collier Museum at Government center. On our second Tuesday in
September, which will be the 10th, Ray Carroll, who is Cindy Carroll's brother,
will be giving a talk on the diaries of Frank Watt Hall. A lot of people don't know
that the Henderson Creek settlement was extremely populous at the turn of the
20th century
There's really no one who lives down there now, but we're talking about the
terminus of Shell Island Road, and there were dozens of families who were
homesteading there around the turn of the century, and Frank Watt hall was their
school teacher for about a year and kept a diary in 1898. Ray and his sister
Cindy transcribed that diary and did some, you know, did some work with it,
finding details to annotate it. And so Ray's going to come and give a lecture,
September's back to school time. So we thought that that was appropriate, and
he's going to tell us September 10 at 02:00 p.m. at Collier Museum at
Government center. The Carroll family has been a great friend to the museums
over many decades.
And then for our second Tuesday lecture in October, again, 02:00 p.m.,
October 8. The lecture will be rest in paradise cemeteries of Collier county, and
that will be yours truly. And given a little history of the more than a dozen
cemeteries that actually are in Collier county, everything from, of course, Palmer
oil, you know, beautiful, expansive, sort of modern, to little tiny corner patches
here and there. The Brown family cemetery, for example, is right across Roberts
Avenue from Roberts Ranch, and lots of people don't know, but there is a
civil war veteran buried there. So all, you know, little patches here and there, and
I'll touch on all of that. There are some on Marco island.
I think there are a couple of family plots on, and obviously, then Fakahatchee as
well, and the Daniels family cemeteries and the 10,000 islands, et cetera. So
we'll cover all of that and then, of course, bring folks up to date on Rosemary
Cemetery.
9. HAPB COMMENTS
• Janice O'Connell: I'm still seeking and hoping that at some point in time we can
get a name tag.
• Ray Bellows: We'll look into it. It is not a problem.
. Zach Burch: Does anyone have a recommendation on where we should go
next?
. Amanda Townsend: The Museum of the Everglades in Everglades City could
host your meeting.
. Zach Burch: I guess if we can get a motion to have the November meeting on
November 15 or a date to be determined. Okay. In Everglades City,
MOTION PASSED
• Ray Bellows: I'll forward the email to Wanda. She'll put it on the next board
agenda, or as soon as they can get it on.
• Zach Burch: Meeting adjourned 10:41. Next meeting Oct. 18th.
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