BCC Agenda 02/13/2024 Item # 2C (BCC Minutes from January 23, 2024)02/13/2024
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Item Number: 2.C
Doc ID: 27942
Item Summary: January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes
Meeting Date: 02/13/2024
Prepared by:
Title: Management Analyst II – County Manager's Office
Name: Geoffrey Willig
02/07/2024 3:20 PM
Submitted by:
Title: Deputy County Manager – County Manager's Office
Name: Amy Patterson
02/07/2024 3:20 PM
Approved By:
Review:
County Manager's Office Geoffrey Willig County Manager Review Completed 02/07/2024 3:20 PM
Board of County Commissioners Geoffrey Willig Meeting Pending 02/13/2024 9:00 AM
2.C
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, January 23, 2024
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Chris Hall
Rick LoCastro
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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P R O C E E D I N G S
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Phase 1 of
today's commissioner meeting.
I just want to say thank you for coming. Looking
forward to today's -- what we have to do.
Just as a reminder, please turn your cell phones off so
that that doesn't go off when Randy's talking to God.
And public comments, if you have any comments to
make, I want to remind you we have a system here that
we're going to follow, three minutes. We're most interested
to hear what you have to say, but we're most interested in
three minutes. So there's a yellow light that will go off, and
it will give you 30 seconds, and the red light's when you
land the plane. So just as a reminder of that. We look
forward to hearing what you have to say.
Item #1A
INVOCATION BY PASTOR RANDY HOLDMAN – PARKWAY
LIFE CHURCH - INVOCATION GIVEN
So with that, Pastor Holdman.
PASTOR HOLDMAN: Good morning,
Commissioners, and thank you for the privilege to lead us in
our opening prayer. If we can bow our heads.
Father, this morning we thank you for this day. We
thank you, Lord, for the opportunity that we have to come to
serve our community and to serve you in our gifts and
talents that you've given us, Lord.
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Lord, I thank you for this community, and I thank you
for the, incredibly, 100 years that you have blessed this city
and this community with the resources and the leadership
that we've been able to experience. God, as we continue to
move forward, we set this agenda before you today, and we
ask, God, that every decision and every conversation and the
hearts of those that's involved in this meeting and planning
today, God, would be led by you, that you would give a
spirit of wisdom, a spirit of discernment, counsel, and, most
importantly, the fear of you, Lord, in our hearts in all
decisions that we make. Guide the conversations and guide
the spirit and keep this meeting and keep this community in
a spirit of unity that you have set before us.
We thank you for this day, and we give you the glory
and the honor in knowing that at the end of this day, that
everything that is said and done is done by your leading and
your guiding. We ask this in Jesus’ name, amen.
CHAIRMAN HALL: And I have asked Wayne Smith
to do our Pledge. And, Wayne, in 30 seconds, before you
say the Pledge, could you tell us what America means to
you.
MR. SMITH: Oh, my. Can you hear?
You have about two or three hours? Can you hear me
all right?
Well, of course, I think most of the people
know -- well, I know all of you, of course, but I did have a
little bit of a time in my life where I spent as a prisoner of
war in North Vietnam for five-and-a-half years. There
were others that were there almost eight years, by the way.
But we came out of it. There were actually 550 of
us -- over, you know, 1,200 or so that were killed in that
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environment.
But in any event, we -- you know, we came out at our
50th reunion this year of coming out, and there were 125 of
us at this time.
Anyway, I'll -- I'm here to do the Pledge. Sorry that I
spent some time. Can you hear it? Okay.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, sir.
MR. SMITH: And for you, keep that veterans thing
going.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
MR. SMITH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Ms. Patterson.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE DISCLOSURE
PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT
AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO -
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES – 5/0
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MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, agenda changes
for January 23rd, 2024.
First we need to correct the placement of Item 16B2.
It actually needs to be Item 17C. This is a recommendation
that the Board approve a proposed ordinance modification to
Collier County Ordinance No. 2006-56, the Rock Road
Improvement Multiple Service Taxing Unit, to re-establish
an advisory committee to provide input to the county on
matters related to the MSTU. That is, again, just an agenda
placement issue.
Next, move Item 16A7 to Item 11C. This is a
recommendation to waive the nighttime hearing requirement
and hear a Land Development Code amendment regarding
food trucks and food truck parks at two regularly scheduled
daytime Board of County Commissioners meetings and
approve a request to advertise Land Development Code
amendment. This is being moved at Commissioner
Saunders' request.
Add-on Item 10B, to be heard immediately following
4A. This is a presentation from the Productivity Committee
regarding outsources -- outsourcing versus insourcing of
transportation engineering construction and engineering
inspection services. This is being brought to the agenda at
Commissioner Saunders' request.
Add-on Item 10C is a recommendation to approve
acceptance of 80 to 100 donated air purifiers from Carrier
Air and direct staff to implement a program for distribution
to Collier County non-profit organizations by application
with priority given to healthcare facilities and organizations
that offer short-term or long-term residential services. This
item is brought to the agenda at Commissioner Saunders'
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request.
We have a request to continue Items 9A and 9B to the
February 27th, 2024, BCC meeting. This is the Mattson at
Vanderbilt GMPA and PUDZ, and this is being made by the
applicant's request.
We also have a staff communication item related to the
boil water notice in North Collier County and community
communication. This is being brought to the agenda at
Commissioner Saunders' request, and we may talk about that
a little bit earlier in the meeting today.
We do have the two time-certain items, that is
Item 10B, which I had mentioned previously, to be heard
immediately following 4A, that is the Productivity
Committee's presentation, and our nighttime-event item,
10A, to be heard at 5 p.m. This is related to the moratorium
ordinance on privately initiated Growth Management Plan
amendment applications.
With that, County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: I should also mention court
reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and 2:50, if we're still
here before our 5:00.
Commissioners, ex parte on the consent and summary
and any further changes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Ex parte, Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No ex parte and no
changes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Same here, no ex
parte, no changes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have no ex parte
and no changes. I would like to -- just a quick comment on
Item 10C. I don't like bringing things to the Board without
prior notice, but this came up rather suddenly. It's a
good-news issue, and so I made the assumption that no one
would object to it being placed on the agenda with little
notice.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No ex partes and no
changes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I have no ex partes. How long
is the productivity thing going to --
MS. PATTERSON: The presentation is quite short.
If you -- it will be the discussion portion of it that --
CHAIRMAN HALL: I want to get to the discussion
on the water immediately, so I'm good with that. No
changes.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Motion to approve the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion to
approve.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Seconded. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Motion passes.
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Item #3
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
awards and recognitions. We were going to have two
today, but we -- one of our -- one of our employees was
unable to attend. So our only service award today is a
20-year attendee, Javier Moreno, from Parks and Recreation.
Congratulations.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Too cool for school.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3A4 was going to be a
35-year attendee. We will catch up with him on a
future -- at a future board meeting. Thirty-five years is
definitely something to celebrate.
Item #4
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING JANUARY 25, 2024, AS
NAPLES AREA BOARD OF REALTORS DAY IN COLLIER
COUNTY. TO BE ACCEPTED BY PJ SMITH, 2024
PRESIDENT, NABOR®. - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS - ADOPTED – 5/0
That brings us to Item 4, proclamations.
Item 4A is a proclamation designating January 25th,
2024, as Naples Area Board of Realtors Day in Collier
County. To be accepted by PJ Smith, 2024 president,
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NABOR.
(Applause.)
MS. SMITH: I promise mine will be, like, one
minute.
It is my great honor to receive this important
proclamation designating January 25th as the Naples Area
Board of Realtors Day in Collier County.
On behalf of the Naples Area Board of Realtors and
about 8,400 members, plus or minus 100 every day, I would
like to sincerely thank the county commissioners for your
acknowledgment, NABOR members for their support and
leadership, and the community for your continued support.
This recognition truly commemorates NABOR's
important impact and key achievements in the Naples area
on the advent of our 75th anniversary. We look forward to
celebrating this year with you as we honor the past,
celebrate the present, and embrace the collective future.
Thank you so much.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a
motion to accept the proclamation.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved by Commissioner
Kowal, second by Commissioner Saunders. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Motion passes.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #10B
PRESENTATION FROM THE PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE
REGARDING OUTSOURCING VS INSOURCING OF
TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING CONSTRUCTION
ENGINEERING INSPECTION SERVICES (CEI)
(COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS’S REQUEST)
PRESENTED; MOTION TO DIRECT STAFF TO RECRUIT A
TEAM BY OCTOBER 2024 APPROVED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS -
APPROVED – 5/0
This brings us to our add-on item, which is Item 10B, a
presentation from the Productivity Committee regarding
outsourcing versus insourcing of transportation engineering
construction and engineering inspection services, CEI, and
we do have our representative from the Productivity here to
make a presentation. Mr. Godshaw, welcome.
DR. GODSHAW: Thank you. Be there in a minute.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: As Jerry's
approaching the podium, I wanted to tell the Board and the
audience that I'm very proud of the Productivity Committee
meetings -- Productivity Committee. I attend their
meetings. I do miss one every now and then. And I can
tell you, it's one of the hardest working committees that I've
participated in over the years. A lot of very experienced
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individuals, and they really dig into county budgets and
processes. And this was one of the issues that the
Productivity Committee took a look at, and that was the
outsourcing of engineering.
And I asked them to go ahead and make a presentation
for two reasons: One, to talk about the issue, but also to
just let this board know that the Productivity Committee is
alive and well and doing a lot of good work.
DR. GODSHAW: Thank you, Commissioner.
My name is Jerry Godshaw. My background is
actually in economics. And I've been part of this committee
for close to five years now in various forms.
And I want to say, first of all, it's been a pleasure to
work with most of the county staff. They're very
professional, they've been very cooperative, and they've
been unbelievably helpful in every way we could possibly
imagine. And the commissioner, I applaud him for his
attendance at most of our meetings, so that's been great.
But just to give you -- do I switch the slides here?
MR. MILLER: Slide out the keyboard.
DR. GODSHAW: Oh. Thanks, Amy.
As the commissioner said, the committee's looked at a
lot of issues over the last few years, and I just wanted to
highlight three of them that we've done recently. We did a
great examination of Parks and Rec. This has resulted in
increased signage, easier to contact, and more rapid
addressment of several issues that citizens may bring to the
fore, in front of Parks and Rec, the 311 number, and I think
we've helped in that regard. But, again, it's been the county
staff that's implemented this stuff, and they've done a
wonderful job.
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We're currently looking at some of the issues on the
sports complex that were a problem in the construction, and
hopefully address those so they're not a problem in the
future.
And I want to get to the last one, which I'm going to
address now, the transportation management services and
engineering. This was a project that was brought to us
because we've looked at the management of transportation
engineering, and they've presented to us many -- in many
instances, and the Productivity produced a report that
analyzed whether we should contract out some of these
services or source them in-house and specifically with
respect to construction engineering and inspection services.
Just by way of background, the transportation
engineering division is responsible for a lot in our county
that we have to be thankful for. We have wonderful roads.
They're responsible for the maintenance and safe traffic
operations on our roads, implementing all the capital
improvement projects, including many of those that were
part of the sales tax initiative, acquiring the needed property
for those improvements, which is, as you know, not always
easy. And the county, in terms of building roads and
maintaining them, uses both contracted outsource personnel
and employee services of the county for construction
engineering.
Now, for reasons related to some issues, particularly
the availability of qualified personnel and liability in the
design phase, the design engineering is primarily outsourced
to third parties, as it would not be very beneficial for us to
do that in-house. But -- and this is where the big but
comes -- the road construction projects require a certain
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amount of regular oversight and inspections by construction
engineering and inspection teams; CEI, we refer to them as.
Currently, the county has 10 full-time equivalents.
Basically, one supervisor, a couple managers, and field
inspectors. This headcount is clearly not sufficient to
maintain the current roads or to do the required inspection
and engineering that's required for the future construction,
and we'll get to that in a minute.
As part of the sales tax initiative, there's a lot of
construction going on, Vanderbilt Road and others, and they
require constant investigation.
Now, typically, a third party would do this for 12 to
15 percent of the construction costs, which is a lot of money.
The county's Productivity reviewed the cost of outsourcing
these services as opposed to using in-house staff. When we
looked at just two projects that they had proposed that they
could take in-house rather easily with one additional
team -- a team consists of five individuals -- the cost of that
additional team for outsourcing for just these two projects,
the two projects as seen on the screen here, are the 16th
Street bridge northeast. It's a surtax project. Construction
is to begin this year, and it will last 18 months.
Following that, there's the Airport Road widening.
Again, a surtax product, which was to follow 18 months
later in 2026.
Those construction budgets for each of those are 2.2
and 2.4 million respectively. So, roughly, a little over
4-and-a-half million dollars to outsource that, which is in the
budget. To do this in-house would cost around $2 million.
We could hire the people. We've talked to the staff. The
staff believes they can find the people. This is not a
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requirement that requires specific advanced engineering
training. They can hire inspectors. They can train them
within a short period of time. And if we hired them
internally, the project costs are expected to be about
2 million, a little under maybe, and that includes both the
first-year cost of about 700,000 that would include acquiring
vehicles, training, and everything, and then about a 550-,
$560,000 annual cost of the personnel, including fringe
benefits and everything.
So our recommendation is quite simple, that we
proceed with giving the engineering department the
approval that you accept this report and consider proceeding
with one additional in-house CEI team to establish as proof
of concept that this is the right direction for the county to go
in at a savings of over 2 million, probably close to
2-and-a-half million. So that's the recommendation of the
Productivity Committee.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go ahead. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Oh, thank you,
Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the report.
And I don't know if staff has any comments on the
potential for recruiting a team like that, but it seems to me
we're talking about two projects where there's a $2 million
savings on two projects. Obviously, a team would be
available for other projects going forward. So the savings
would be substantial, and, of course, Commissioner Hall,
this is one of your favorite topics on how to do things more
efficiently.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I'm loving this.
DR. GODSHAW: Well, Commissioner, may I add
that there's a pipeline of projects that the county has that's
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going to keep these guys employed for a long period of time.
And even if not, turnover is likely to be such that I'm sure
it's not going to be an issue.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I guess the
question for staff is, can you recruit these folks and -- if the
Commission gives you that authority and get them onboard
and start saving some taxpayer dollars?
MS. SCOTT: Good morning. For the record, Trinity
Scott, Transportation Management Services department
head.
Absolutely, we'll do our best job to be able to recruit.
In our particular CEI group right now, we do not have any
vacancies. So we are at our full employment capacity in
that specific group.
I can tell you that we've been working very closely with
HR to look at different opportunities as far as recruiting
other than just putting our positions out. In fact, today I
have a group in Immokalee at a hiring fair for some of our
inspector positions and some of our maintenance worker
positions. So we're working very closely with HR to try to
think outside the box about how we have typically recruited.
CHAIRMAN HALL: What would be the timeline that
we need to get this team on board?
MS. SCOTT: So it's going to take some time to,
obviously, have folks apply, get in through all of our
background checks, et cetera. It's going to take a couple
months to bring them on board. The first project was in '24
on that group. So we would want to have them on board
fully trained up by the beginning of our fiscal year, which
would be October; that would also include -- we would need
to order equipment for them. So that takes some time as
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well.
So, typically, what we've done in the past is we've
ordered the equipment to determine what the lead time of
that is and then started bringing those folks on a couple
months after that so we can get them fully trained and out in
the field.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- we've had a lot of
discussion about staffing, and I think you just indicated that
you're at full employment, but that's a number that we've set
for you.
MS. SCOTT: For that specific group.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Right. But that's a
number we set for you. We can change that number to
accommodate, obviously, hiring another team. And even if
one of the projects is completed before we bring on another
team, we still have a flow of projects. So the point is,
Mr. Chairman and members, I think we should direct our
staff to do exactly what Dr. Godshaw has suggested, and
that is to investigate, explore, bring on some teams, at least
one, to go forward with Dr. Godshaw's presentation. So, I
mean --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Then I'll
second that motion.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. We've got a motion
and a second. All in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Carries. Good job,
Dr. Bradshaw [sic].
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you for the
presentation, and look forward to the next meeting and the
next topic.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: And, Dr. Godshaw,
I just wanted to thank you, too. You and I sat on a recent
board over at David Lawrence Center. He's doing an awful
lot of things all over the community, and in this particular
case, he and I were sitting at the same table talking about
mental health and a lot of really important issues. So, you
know, you're doing a lot to give back to the community and
come up with great ideas. So, you know, we all up here
applaud you and, really, thank you for your service, sir.
DR. GODSHAW: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It will be interesting
to see what the committee comes up with, the lessons
learned on the Paradise Coast contracting issue.
That's -- that's their next assignment.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Dr. Godshaw was
saying he thought it would be a good casino, and we're like
no, no, no. I'm just kidding. Wrong avenue.
DR. GODSHAW: Yeah.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, would you like to talk
about the --
CHAIRMAN HALL: I would love --
MS. PATTERSON: -- situation this weekend with the
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water?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes.
**RECENT WATER BOILING NOTICE DISCUSSION –
COMMUNICATION ISSUES WITH REVIEW OF WHAT
HAPPENED; QUICK RESPONSE WITH LOW PRESSURE ISSUE
RESOLVED; BOIL WATER NOTICE ISSUED FOR SAFETY; 2
SEPARATE WATER MAIN BREAKS OCCURRED AFTER THE
LOW- PRESSURE EVENT; INCIDENTS CREATED OVERLAP
OF IMPACT FOR BOIL WATER NOTIFICATIONS; LESSONS
LEARNED FOR BETTER COMMUNICATION AND
PROCEDURES FOR THE FUTURE DISCUSSED
MS. PATTERSON: All right. So we do have staff here
in the room and if the commissioners, if you want
to -- Chair, if you'd like, you have some opening comments,
and then we can -- we can bring the staff up and have a
conversation.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Sure.
So what we had on Sunday, we had a low-pressure
incident in North Collier that affected three different
districts, mainly District 2, some of District 3, and some of
District 5. I learned about it from some emails that I got
early Sunday morning from constituents saying we have low
pressure. Can you -- you know, can you advise?
So I said, stay tuned. I immediately got on the text
message and found out that we did have a low-pressure
incident due to some valves and some automation, and
that's -- and then we found out that on Sunday later that
afternoon that there was a precautionary boil-water notice
issued by the county that said, you know, while we're taking
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samples, you know, we advise you to boil your water, and
that was Sunday afternoon.
On Monday morning, we didn't have any update
publicly, and about 1 p.m. on Monday on the county
Facebook page there was a notice given that said the
boil-water notice is lifted. And I didn't see that, and so I
had no notice to me -- actually, I didn't get any notice at all
personally. I learned about it through emails and then me
contacting people.
And then this morning, Arthrex emailed saying, hey,
can you let us know about this boil-water notice because,
you know, we haven't heard anything. So I got with -- I got
with staff and learned that the major boil-water notice -- the
generic boil-water notice was lifted with the exceptions of
Arthrex and the Pewter Mug area because there were breaks
in the line. There, again, I found out because people were
asking me.
As of this morning, I mean, around 8 o'clock, we
noticed that on the county Facebook page that the boil-water
notice was taken away, or that the lifted notice was taken
away. Now we've got WINK News saying that the county
doesn't have any official thing.
So here's the point. I'm not -- I'm not upset that we
had an issue. Issues happen. I do not -- I think that the
way that we communicated with each other and the way
that -- especially the way that we did not communicate with
the public needs to be changed, and that's the discussion that
I would love to have.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you, sir.
So I see Dr. Yilmaz ready to come up, and perhaps he
has some insight as to where a few of these anomalies
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occurred, and then we can diagnose where we can smooth
out these communications for future events.
Dr. Yilmaz.
DR. YILMAZ: Thank you.
Commissioners, thank you very much for the
opportunity, and, Chair, you're right on, and I think there are
a number of communique -- and communications
improvements, enhancements, and lessons learned.
Actually, told -- and I'll share with you how we can do not
just better, probably better than any other utility. We make
best out of these experiences.
So very briefly. It's going to take about three minutes.
This whole thing started with Sunday 11:39, we experienced
low pressures in our north part of the service area, and those
low-pressure readings were due to a search [sic] valve at one
of our pump stations, and we have isolated, diagnosed
within 59 minutes and, thereafter, we went into a restoration
of 40,000 connections, half of the county water/sewer
district being restored for pressures not only for public
safety hydrants, high-rises, but also hydrants.
So we were back and operational within 60 minutes.
And when you look at close to 80 square miles, we're trying
to figure out what happened, where the low pressure is.
We're trying to figure out if there are water main breaks.
We're checking our five different substations, and we're
checking our SCADA, all hands on deck.
So I want to thank our water director, Howard, and our
distribution manager, both of them best of the best we can
find in the state. Their team did tremendously well
diagnosing/identifying the root cause, and getting the system
up and running in 69 minutes.
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So I just want to make sure that, as our governing
board, your team is on it, getting it fixed, and with
benchmarks created for the utilities elsewhere how we can
go after it and fix it.
Having said that, we had to issue a precautionary
boil-water notice because of the fact that most customers
experienced low pressure. Some customers on the
high-rises, second floor, third floor, because of the pressure
drop, they experienced no water, so we got the reports, and
we get our SCADA readings.
Based on that, we made the judgment call
conservatively. What traditionally what would be
boil-water notice being much more targeted area, we made it
broader, and that's being conservative on our part making
sure that public health and safety and water is safe.
In the process, we were collecting hundred QAQC
samples, and hundred QAQC samples were analyzed
overnight, and every single one of them passed that drinking
is safe. So we issued press release and social media
notifications that the first incident started at 11:39 a.m.
Sunday, ended 12:26 Sunday, resulted in no compromise in
public health safety, including our fire response.
Now, what happened thereafter, we had two water main
breaks. This is -- after all this happening, we're restoring
the system. We had two water main breaks, and one was
on Creekside water main break on Sunday night, and our
crews were there, stabilized it, isolated, and fixed the water
main break Sunday night and issued typical boil-water
notice.
That has its own cycle because of the fact that when
you do laboratory analysis, incubation period for bacterial
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analysis [sic] is about, like, close to 24 hours. You have to
wait 24 hours to get it. And we do it in-house so that it's as
fast as we can get it so that customers are knowledgeable.
Then second force main break happened on U.S. 41,
and that water main break happened on Monday morning,
early morning. So we have crews, all hands on deck, fixing
second water main break. And the general thought is that
we had a dry season, thanks to El Nino, now we have the
dry winter season turned into wet season, which is one of the
root causes for water main breaks due to groundwater levels.
Having said that -- so that kind of paints the picture in
terms of in the field, our operations.
Let's move to communication. Commissioner, you're
right on, when you have a close proximity on events, big
part of customers, 40,000 connections, over 120,000
customers base being notified that they are on boil-water
notice and we're lifting boil-water notice but then we got
these two isolated areas driven by water main break,
continues to have boil-water notice.
So there's overlap, and there are lessons learned. And
I think that moving forward, if we have this incident, we
will make sure that our communication in all areas, press
releases, social media -- and one other thing that I learned
personally, that we need to -- oh, by the way, I want to
compliment our County Manager, Ms. Patterson. She has
been 24/7 in communication with me as much as up to
speed. She's -- I am, but I think that given the time
compression gives us such a limited time to clarify things.
So we have one thing posted, something else is happening,
we're posting it, close proximity. No excuses. We'll do
better.
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But what I want to share with you is what I got from
Commissioner Hall's -- I mean, that was impressive to me,
frankly, and I think it's a learning point for staff for us to be
able to help your assistants because of the fact that what I
have seen Commissioner Hall did is just exceptional. He
just sent update on his newsletter, and his update included
clarification as soon as he got the information from our
County Manager, including the map. And then reference
from that map updates link in terms of when boil-water
notice is going to lift.
So I want to include that in our, frankly, lessons
learned. We didn't think about it. But I think that we can
do that for any district. When we have boil-water notice,
we'll be -- we'll be reaching out to you through our County
Manager so that you have all the information you need to
communicate specifically with your districts in addition to
our means and methods communicating to the public
through press releases.
So that's my brief summary. And if there are any other
questions, I would be more than happy to answer them.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Dr. Yilmaz.
DR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I think, there again -- I think
we're extremely pleased with how the county responded to
the actual problem and fixed it as fast -- I mean, that's
impressive. But what's not impressive is how we
communicated to the public.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
I think there are two elements of communicating with
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the public. Obviously, what Commissioner Hall did with
the newsletter certainly got the word out to an awful lot of
people. And so keeping people informed on what has
happened and what the processes are, that's incredibly
important. And I know that's a lesson learned. And this is
not a criticism. I think staff did a wonderful job in
responding to all of these problems.
But there's two elements to communication: The first
is, when people have the problem and they start calling to let
us know that there's a problem, and I think that's where there
may have been a breakdown. I got a phone call from Sue
Filson saying that people are calling her because they're
dialing some numbers for the county, and there's no
response. They're dialing cell phones, and there's no
response.
And so I got ahold of a couple folks, including
Dr. Yilmaz and Amy Patterson, to say there's a problem.
People can't get through. What's going on? Now, by that
time, everybody knew -- you guys were on it.
But I think we need to find a way to improve the
communications potential for people that have the problem
and they call in. There should be an answer. And our 311
system isn't operative, I think, over the weekends, but
something like that where people can call in. They know
there's a number to call in. Maybe it's part of 311 where
they know to call in, and there'll be an answer. I think that
was really the most frustrating thing for people.
And I got a bunch of letters -- I'm sure everybody
did -- that they called different numbers -- a variety of
different numbers and could not get any response, and that
was what was really frustrating for a lot of folks.
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So I don't know what the answer is, but there has to be
some better way for people to report an emergency, even if
it's a whole lot of people calling in to report that.
DR. YILMAZ: Commissioner, absolutely, and we
concur, we agree.
One of the things that we need to work on from an
infrastructure standpoint in communications. It's not
unique to our county, but there are limitations in terms of
simultaneous calls coming in. If we have anything more
than 100 phone calls come in within time frame and
simultaneous, they get kicked out.
So that -- we're doing deep dive, and I think we have
solutions sets that already we're working on. So there are
some communication infrastructure limitations that we will
overcome, and I think that our 311, as well as our utility
customer service, and -- along with what we call -- when we
have emergencies, we create pool of people, more than
usual, answering phone calls.
So this incident indicated that we need to be better
ready and overcome infrastructure and communication and
obstacles we have in phone tree line. We received about
over 3,000 phone calls within 60 minutes. It kind of tells
you, when you have critical infrastructure failures, it is
alerted, and we're silenteures [sic], and even 60 minutes of
low pressure created over 3,000 phone calls. That's how
important, what we do, and that's what we need to do
24/7/365 to sustain it.
So having said that, are we ready for another 3-, 4,000
phone calls coming in within one hour? My answer is no.
Are we going to be ready? Working with our County
Manager, Ms. Patterson, we will overcome those obstacles.
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Once we overcome technology and infrastructure
communication obstacles and routing, I think that next time
around, it will be much smoother, and then we'll include
routing to our individual commissioner aides so that they
are, at the same time, up to speed. Lessons learned from
our Commissioner Hall.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, George.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. You
mentioned something, Dr. George, and I really
appreciate -- I spoke to you personally on Sunday. Even
my phone started ringing when people's water pressure
dropped off or didn't have any.
During your presentation, you talked -- and it's
something that I'd like to ask about. Critical infrastructure
issues due to our good Lord sending more water -- surface
water than we typically have. Do we have critical
infrastructure issues that are that liable to natural events?
You know, we happen to -- we happen to have a rainier than
usual dry season going on right now, and I'm -- are there
other things that we need to be looking at with regard to our
critical infrastructure based upon that?
DR. YILMAZ: Absolutely, and we are. Our County
Manager, Ms. Patterson, during the weekend made all the
resources available from EOC, and I've been in
communication with Mr. Dan Summers, and we do have
some means and methods and tools available there for mass
notification that can be driven by a polygon in GIS so that
we can have a targeted mass notification that includes phone
calls and text messages to the customers registered on
Collier Alert.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. You were on
over on -- you're over on communication. I'm talking about
the infrastructure that we have in the ground right now that's
impacted by a higher-than-normal subsurface groundwater
issue.
DR. YILMAZ: I got it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was -- that was
part of your presentation as to why the breaks were
happening. Are we that susceptible to higher-than-normal
or higher-at-all groundwater -- subsurface groundwater
levels?
DR. YILMAZ: Got it. The vulnerability is very
limited --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
DR. YILMAZ: -- and usually it is where our water
main pipe's placed on the rocks. As you know, private
development builds our infrastructure, and they convey to
us. And we cannot go and inspect every foot of pipe being
put underground.
So some of them happen to be sitting on the rocks.
Quarry is a good example. We have a lot of breaks there
when we have water events because of the fact that when
you have a water main moving on the rock, there's going to
be a chance that it's going to break.
So -- but it's limited. We know where they are, and
we're ready to respond. So short answer is, vulnerability is
there, we know the locations, and it's very limited.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then with
regard to the communications, you have been working with
Dan Summers and a better methodology for communication
on a greater basis?
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DR. YILMAZ: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that what I heard?
Okay. And, Mr. Chair, I do have a third item that's not
related to this, but it has to do with this department, so I'll
bring that up after we're done talking about this
circumstance.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Dr. George, we're
talking -- you brought up the Alert Collier system. Even
though this didn't affect my district, my phone was ringing
as well as citizens were trying to get ahold of anybody.
DR. YILMAZ: Yes. We communicated with you
over the weekend.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. And my
executive assistant lives in District 3, so she was affected.
And I guess she had talked with Ms. Patterson and a few
others, and to just get back to your comment about the Alert
Collier system, she had mentioned it as well. We use that
for hurricanes and everything. And although we don't want
to blast it out countywide, I don't need people in Goodland
to know that there's a water main break in District 2 or 3,
but -- and maybe we don't know this answer. Do we have
the ability to -- maybe Ms. Patterson know this, or I see Dan
Summers in the back. Do we have the ability to target
certain ZIP codes --
DR. YILMAZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: -- to send out? So,
I mean, that would have been awesome, you know. I mean,
we can't use Alert Collier every time somebody gets a flat
tire on Collier Boulevard, but for something that affects, you
know, water, or maybe a controlled burn that's out of -- you
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know, it's out of control or a major car accident on I-75, I
mean, we don't want to water down Alert Collier. We want
it to be for emergencies. But, you know, this crossed over
to three districts, and even in my district citizens were
hearing it from friends who were saying nobody's talking to
us. You know, Commissioner, can you tell us anything?
So if Alert Collier, you know, we have the ability to go
these seven ZIP codes, send, you know, that's just another,
you know, redundant system, and it's a system that already
works. When we have storms and hurricanes, you know,
we have how many people signed up for Alert Collier?
Lots.
And so it's not going to -- you know, it's going to be
one of the pieces of the puzzle. But to me, when I had
heard my assistant talking about that -- and you just brought
it up as well -- I would think that would be something to
pursue really, really quickly, but make sure it doesn't
overinundate, you know, the county because then people
start to ignore it. Oh, there's a water main break, you know,
75 miles from me. Who cares? But I don't know, I see
Mr. Summers, you know, came up, so I was just curious.
DR. YILMAZ: Commissioner, right on. I mean,
what you're saying is right on. I think that there's a balance
how fast and how often we need to use that notification
system.
So Mr. Summers is meeting with all my directors this
Friday. And he and I talked. We can establish polygons.
Not going to be 100 percent accurate, but we will be able
to -- above and have beyond ZIP code, we will be able to
identify by neighborhoods what we need to send. If there's
a boil-water notice, we'll send it out. If boil-water notice
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rescinded, then we'll send the notes out, and we'll give a
full-scale demonstration project next two or three events and
fine-tune it as we go along.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
DR. YILMAZ: I hope that answers your question.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: It does. I
mean -- and Mr. Summers is standing behind you. Maybe
he has something he wants to add, because, I mean, this is a
system that he uses quite a bit. And so could we piggyback
on it for these unique instances where we want to get the
word out, sir?
MR. SUMMERS: Commissioners, good morning.
Dan Summer, Bureau of Emergency Services director.
The answer is absolutely yes. And we did -- I
happened to be working in the office, and I got a call
from -- it was not my weekend to do laundry, so I got the
call from my residents and followed up accordingly and was
monitoring that traffic and did check in with them. I did
partially activate my staff on -- which is well within my
purview to do that, and we had our notification team ready.
We go through a two-step process.
Just to refresh just a couple of comments. This is
a -- this is a great opportunity for improvement. I've
worked with Dr. George's team for 20 years, and they're
awesome, and this is a good indication of how we can,
again, leverage that power. We focus typically on things
like weather and wildfire and hurricane. We absolutely can
use this tool in a very discretionary manner to do that.
We can draw polygons. It obviously took a little time
for Dr. Yilmaz's team to identify that polygon. When I say
"the polygon," those areas impacted by service. We can
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make that notification by text, by cell phone. Presently,
right now, the State of Florida has funded and purchased for
us all landlines. That is a year-to-year legislative funding.
So right now I have 100 percent saturation in Collier
County as long as the legislature continues to buy the white
pages, if you will. It's what we refer to it.
So number one, we encourage people to subscribe to
Alert Collier. We can send the text. The areas that we can
notify, we draw that on a map. And, generally, it's accurate
plus or minus 2,000 feet. That's pretty good, because we're
relying on cellular technology and some of those other
things that are outside of our control.
So we have a number -- we have a large library of
pre-scripted messages. We will get with Dr. George's team,
build those templates. And, typically, once we have the
area identified, we work with the fire chief or the incident
commander, unless the EOC's activated. If you're under a
local state of emergency, it's my discretion to pull the
trigger.
Dr. George in this case is the incident commander.
That's his area of authority. Then it takes us about 15
minutes to build that quality, assure it. And, honestly, we
have to throttle that notification or else we'd swamp the
phone system too, but we can get that message out. And in
some cases, through Google Translate, we can even get
second-language notifications.
I would just -- one more plug. We have learned from
the wildfire event, it's important to make the notification of
the event, but it's also important to make a second
notification to terminate the event. So all clear. So, yes,
there are those situations where you want to do more than
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one notification to bring termination or closure to the
emergency so folks aren't calling.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Mr. Summers.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
And I guess I was lucky that, you know, District 4 was
not affected by this, but also I got the same amount of phone
calls and questions asked of me throughout the -- from
Sunday on. And it makes more sense now that -- some
clarity here, after listening to Dr. George, that these were
actually three separate events that happened, and -- because
I was questioning myself. I'm like, why do we have a
boil-water notice? Now it's not a boil water, and it's back to
a boil-water notice. Now it's a different section boil-water
notice.
So it was kind of confusing to me, myself. And, you
know, that -- and to the citizens, that makes it really, really
confusing when we're getting this information out in that
way. But now it makes a little bit more sense with the three
separate events, because he's just following protocol, you
know, that once we have an incident, we've got to put the
boil-water notice out until we know it is safe to drink. And
it sounds like that, pretty much, the water was always safe to
drink. It's just the precautionary actions to put the
boil-water notice out in three different ways; you know, it
was a result of the three different incidents.
But I do know -- I think the 252 number did get
overwhelmed, and there was a lot of people that was not
getting through. And, you know, in public safety, and
myself with a background in public safety, when people
don't know what to call, they call 911.
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So our 911 center was actually getting some calls in
reference to this, even though it was just a low water
pressure incident and not an actual water -- you know, like,
they didn't witness a water main break that was actually
causing some sort of safety along a roadway or something,
which, if that happens, yeah, call 911, let's get it out, and
let's get it out quickly.
But, you know, if there's some way -- I mean, I'm not
that technical savvy or something, but if there's some way
that when these people do call into the 252, you know, or the
311 and they're not getting through directly that -- is there
some sort of way the call gets switched over to an automated
message saying, listen, we understand because we're getting
inundated, we know there's a problem in such and such area,
just a message that gives them some relief that then they
don't have to keep calling back in and keep clogging up,
because they got an answer, or going to call 911 because
they didn't get an answer. So I don't know if that's possible
or not, but that might be an idea.
DR. YILMAZ: Sir, it's possible, and it's call tree, as
you know, from your -- so we can always enhance and beef
up our phone tree all the way down to five layers. So we've
got two if not three layers. So we do have on call, but they
were overwhelmed as well. So we need to have multiple
tiers.
This is one of those events, gives us ability. As our
County Manager indicated, there's a lot to learn from this.
And moving forward, if we have true emergency -- I mean,
this is one that needed to be communicated, but if there was
a true emergency and our 311 is overwhelmed, our phone
calls on the county system is overwhelmed, and our backup
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systems is not gone, the ultimate call trees, as you indicated,
911. And our goal is not to move it to 911, handle it within.
So you're right on, and we're going to work on it. And
there are visibilities, and we can overcome the technical
and/or communication infrastructure barriers so that we
don't overwhelm and overburden 911 for anything other than
true life and safety.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Dr. George.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So just to reiterate, you know,
this is by no means a finger pointing session at anybody. I
thought the problem was handled amazing. We do want to
learn to communicate better. So just to sum it up, you
know, no one knows staff. They only -- the buck stops with
each one of us up here. We're the ones that it's our fault.
And so when we can't respond or we don't have the
information to respond, it looks weak on our part. So I just
want the public to know that it is our -- I think I can speak
for all of us, we want to solve the problem. It's our desire
to be informed and to let them know what they can expect.
So just to sum it up, the breakdown in communication
to us, we can learn from. The 311 system being
overwhelmed, we can learn from. We can do something
about that, especially on a weekend. You know, I love the
fact, what Commissioner LoCastro said, we don't want to
water down the Alert Collier, but we want to be able to
utilize it, and I think that's wise.
I think another thing that we can learn is to update as
we go along. Even though we don't have any information
for the solution, we could update that information letting the
public know we're well aware, we're working on it. This is
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what's -- we've taken water samples; it takes 24 hours. Just
some form of updating the public.
You know, we handled the problem in 60 minutes, but
when you're at home and you don't have any water pressure,
you have no idea how long that's going to last. And when
you can't get through, when every phone call you call is not
operating, you can't get an answer, you call a commissioner,
they don't know what's going on, that -- that's alarming to
the public. So we can learn by updating on a regular basis.
Even though we don't have updated solution information, we
can still update them on the process. I think that's
important to the public. I think that's one of the main
frustrations that they had.
And then I love the fact that we can utilize the Alert
Collier. That the polygon -- you know, we can isolate the
areas with a polygon, send out messages to communicate.
So I think it was a great conversation. I think
we -- everyone has the desire to learn from this and get
better, and if anybody else -- Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And this is off
subject, but it has to do with communication with customers.
We have a system in place that monitors water consumption
by individual customers, but it's lagging. It's sometimes
two and three weeks or a month old before a customer gets a
bill. And I have a circumstance specifically with a friend
who has a home who experienced a leaky valve and were
consuming close to 100,000 gallons an hour, and then -- and
then we're -- they didn't know until their bill came, and then
they were a month and a half behind, had consumed well in
excess of a million gallons of water.
So my question is, while we're looking at how we
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communicate with our customer base, please, let's shorten
up that time frame to trigger the system to tell us to get in
contact with a particular customer. We have a system in
place that monitors excess water consumption, but alert
somebody to alert that customer to allow them to be able to
make adjustments interimly and not wait for their bill and
then, in turn, put them in a litigious circumstance with a
contractor.
These particular folks had a new pool installed, and
there was a -- there was a valve that was malfunctioning,
and they weren't aware of it for close to -- in excess of 30
days. So if you would, please, I'll give you specifics
off-line as to where that actually occurred. But if you
would, please, add that into the repertoire of communication
with a customer base. That's as important, I think, as a
mass -- as a mass communication.
DR. YILMAZ: Thank you, Commissioner. And
you're right. The current system we have is smart meters,
and by hour, we know our customers, what they consume.
We have the historian that we compare to, and if there's a
significant delta, we do give credit back to our customers in
three different ways. There are three tiers. Board has
authorized me as department head up to certain amount so
you don't see those reimbursements to our customers.
And there's an upped amount my County Manager
approves. You don't see those because they are empowered
and delegated adjustments, but they are lagging indicators,
and we're dealing with that probably two, three times a
month, routinely.
Now, what I did hear from you, Commissioner, just for
the governing boards and Board's information, we have
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three full-scale demonstration pilot projects designed to be
more leading indicator as a smart meter and be able to see
the consumption and alert our customer service. And we go
back to our customer and saying something is going on there
and let's look at it.
So we're doing that on a limited basis, but there are so
many technologies out there. Before we standardize it,
we're going through that process. But right on, and
appreciate the feedback.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thanks.
County Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you, Commissioners.
We'll definitely work with you both as the Board and
individually on ways to continue to improve these
communications. This was a weird and evolving situation.
Even my mom called me saying that she didn't have any
water and -- yeah. So anyway --
CHAIRMAN HALL: That's not good.
MS. PATTERSON: We endeavor to do better. And
when my mom doesn't have water, obviously, that's a
serious emergency. She's 88, so -- I'm surprised she wasn't
one of the ones calling 911.
Just kidding, Mom.
With that, we're ready to move along to the next agenda
item.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
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Okay. Troy, that brings us to public comment.
MR. MILLER: Public comment on general topic.
We have one registered speaker at this time, Robert
Thurston.
MR. THURSTON: Good morning, Commissioners.
Hello, my name is Robert Thurston. Today marks my
eighth appearance before the Collier County Board of
County Commissioners on Collier TV. As always, these
presentations are meant to be polite and informative. I'm
highlighting the deep state's Targeted Individual Program.
I'm not here today to talk about wetland conservation or
about building a new parking garage. I'm here to talk about
freedom from government tyranny. Without freedom, these
other things don't really matter as much.
There's corruption going on here right under our nose.
I'm here to tell you about something that went on that should
have never gone on. This room we're in is a place where
people come to solve problems. Some problems seem
unsolvable. What would you do if a Navy SEAL sniper
who you once knew was using the Targeted Individual
Program in his connections to the highest U.S. offices in the
land to try to destroy your life as well other innocent
American lives on a daily basis? In fact, what if this same
Navy SEAL had actually made several attempts on your life
and you told the police, politicians, lawyers, the Department
of Justice, the FBI, activists, civil rights group, and local and
national reporters, and next to no one did anything to help?
No single person you know had the clout or will to stop this
Navy SEAL.
Faced with that situation, what would you do to try to
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save your own life and end the targeting? Would you
organize your notes and write up many speeches to go on
community TV? Would you hope someone hears your
story and releases the secret government files to the public
that details and explains your targeting? Would you use
community TV to have your name removed from phony
terrorist watch lists you know you're on?
My solution to this problem has been to try to create
new laws. Where the system is corrupt, We the People
have the chance to correct it. To create the new law, I need
to give examples of what happened. I've identified Collier
Sheriff Kevin Rambosk as deep state, a designation that
should lead to his removal from office.
In past meetings here, I've spoken of the crimes
Rambosk has been committing against me since 2010. In
2022, Rambosk sent another deputy to my home. The
deputy had opened a postal package of mine and was hand
delivering it to me. He opened it without a warrant, without
probable cause, without explanation. And what did
Rambosk find in my package? It was a box of good-quality
coronavirus masks I had bought to protect myself and
others. You have to understand that this is spiritual
warfare, all ultimately designed to provoke the target into
lashing out so the Navy SEAL or Rambosk can rush in and
quickly arrest or worse. It's a setup.
Rambosk hacks into my cell phones and computers
often and harasses me when I go out based on his findings.
Rambosk makes no apologies and offers no remorse, instead
hoping to sweep it under the rug.
How can Naples hold itself up as a fair and honest
place to do business when your head law enforcement
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official is wrapped up in this illegal torture program
involving spying and unlawful harassment against law
abiding citizens?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Mr. Thurston.
MR. MILLER: That's all the speakers we have on this
item, sir.
Item #10C
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE ACCEPTANCE OF 80 TO
100 DONATED AIR PURIFIERS FROM CARRIER AIR AND
DIRECT STAFF TO IMPLEMENT A PROGRAM FOR
DISTRIBUTION TO COLLIER COUNTY NON-PROFIT
ORGANIZATIONS, BY APPLICATION, WITH PRIORITY
GIVEN TO HEALTHCARE FACILITIES AND
ORGANIZATIONS THAT OFFER SHORT-TERM OR LONG-
TERM RESIDENTIAL SERVICES. (COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS’S REQUEST) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - APPROVED – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, with the Items 9A
and 9B being continued to the second meeting in February,
that brings us to our add-on Item 10C. This is the
recommendation to approve acceptance of approximately 80
to 100 donated air purifiers from Carrier Air and direct staff
to implement a program for distribution to Collier County
non-profit organizations by application with priority given
to healthcare facilities and organizations that offer
short-term or long-term residential services.
This was brought to the agenda at Commissioner
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Saunders' request, and I will hand it over to him for the
background.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
As I said earlier, I don't really like adding things
without some notice in advance, but this came up rather
suddenly.
A gentleman that I've known for a long time is a
representative working -- doing some work with Carrier Air
Conditioning, and Carrier has a partnership with another
company that produces air purification equipment. They
install these in hospitals and other institutions. They have
very large units that connect with the air conditioning and all
of those types of things, but they also have a very small
portable unit, it's about 3 feet tall, maybe 2 feet wide, and it
is very effective in purifying area in, say, a room
of -- maybe a little smaller than this room.
And they have a -- they're donating a large number of
those to the state of Florida, and they're sending 80 to 100 of
those to Collier County if we're willing to accept them.
The Salvation Army will take probably about half of
those, maybe a little bit more, and then my thought was that
we have a lot of not-for-profits that do a lot of good
community work that involve a lot of people. For example,
St. Matthew's House, the Shelter for Abused Women. And
if there's a way to assist those types of not-for-profits to
make sure that people coming to their facilities are safe from
viruses and other bacteria that circulate in the air, that this
would be a good thing to do.
And so what I'm asking the Board to do is simply
accept the donation and then assist in the distribution of
those to the Salvation Army and then also to other
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not-for-profits, as County Manager Patterson has indicated
staff could work some sort of a program out.
So I think this is a good-news item, and I'm just asking
the Board to accept the donation.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Make a motion.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll make that as a
motion, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Second. So we have a motion
and a second to accept these items and distribute them. All
in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: None.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Item #11A
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RECOMMENDATION TO DIRECT STAFF TO ADVERTISE AN
ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE 2002-63, WHICH
ESTABLISHED THE CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM
AND BRING BACK THE ORDINANCE AT AN ADVERTISED
PUBLIC HEARING. (JEFF KLATZKOW, COLLIER COUNTY
ATTORNEY & JAIME COOK, DIRECTOR, ENVIRONMENTAL
SERVICES AND DEVELOPMENT REVIEW) (ALL DISTRICTS) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL - APPROVED – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 11A. That is a recommendation to direct staff to
advertise an ordinance amending Ordinance 2002-63, which
established the current -- I'm sorry -- which established the
Conservation Collier program and bring back the ordinance
at an advertised public hearing.
Ms. Jaime Cook is here to start the presentation. She
does have some recommendations that were, as I advised in
our meetings yesterday, from the Conservation Collier Land
Acquisition Committee that we're going to put on the record
for the Board's consideration.
Ms. Cook.
MS. COOK: Good morning, Commissioners. Jaime
Cook, your director of Development Review at Growth
Management/Community Development.
Back in the fall, you had directed staff to amend the
Conservation Collier ordinance in part to make the
acquisition process faster.
Back in December, we had -- so the County Attorney's
Office had drafted much of the language that was in the
backup material for today. We presented that to the full
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CLACC at their December 6th meeting. They did have
some concerns, wanted to be able to take a look at some of
the language and provide any recommendations.
So we did have a subcommittee meeting with their
ordinance policy and rules subcommittee right before
Christmas, and then their recommendations were presented
to the full CCLAC at the January 3rd meeting.
So today -- we are here today to provide some of those
updates to you as well as get some recommendations from
you, including the staff and CCLAC input on those changes.
So the major -- there are several cleanup and minor
changes throughout the ordinance, but we wanted to
highlight the major changes that would affect the program
moving forward, especially in terms of acquisition.
So the major ordinance changes are within the funding
of the Conservation Collier Program section. There are two
major changes in the properties that are eligible section.
One in the nomination of acquisition proposal section and,
finally, three major changes in the procedures for selection
and purchase. And all of these changes were done at the
direction of the Board from last fall.
So the first major ordinance change combines the
Acquisition Fund and Maintenance Fund sections of the
ordinance, but the -- so the Board would essentially be
codifying that each year through Fiscal Year 2031 the Board
will set the millage rate, which you already have in your
purview to do.
Additionally, instead of the set percentage rates that are
in the current ordinance of 75 to Acquisition and 25 to the
Maintenance Fund, the Board would have the authority to
set the split each year during the budget.
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Traditionally, the interest from the Maintenance Fund
has been paying for all of the maintenance activities within
the preserves each year, and with the changes this year, any
maintenance activities will actually be drawing from the
principal within the account. So by allowing the
maintenance activities to be paid for solely by the interest
every year, if and when the program does eventually sunset,
there would be -- still be money in that Maintenance Fund
that if there are any acquisition purchases or interest in
purchasing land, the principal in that Maintenance Fund
would be able to acquire that acquisition.
CCLAC did have concerns with this policy, but staff
would recommend that we would work with the budget
office each year to provide a recommendation to you to set
those percentages based on any potential acquisitions that
we know may be coming forward as well as proposed
maintenance activities.
In the properties eligible for acquisition and
maintenance section, the first of the major changes is that
the Board had directed us to look at alternative options for
acquiring land including through conservation easements as
well as the TDR program.
At this moment, staff would recommend leaving this
item out of the ordinance, as it's not consistent with our
Growth Management Plan which currently states the county
is not eligible to participate in TDR programs. We've kind
of discussed this internally with staff, and we estimate that it
would probably cost somewhere around 250- or $300,000 to
hire a consultant to update the Growth Management Plan,
which is a year-long process with the state, with state
involvement, then have the consultant write the policy, go
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through the -- go through the contracts to acquire that
consultant, as well as legal review.
If you wanted to give us direction to approach -- to take
this approach and amend the Growth Management Plan,
staff would recommend at that time that the ordinance or the
companion purchasing policies be updated to include things
for -- to include processes for conservation easements as
well as TDR programs.
Additionally, CCLAC did have some concerns --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Can I ask a question
about that?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go ahead.
MS. COOK: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Is it not possible,
then, to have the acquisition of property can be in a -- in fee
or by a conversation easement in the form approved by the
Board? If we stopped there, would that be permissible?
MS. COOK: It would be. Staff would still request
time before implementing this to develop that conservation
easement policy, as that's not something that we currently
have, and there would be some logistics that would need to
be worked out.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That would not
require a Comp Plan change or anything of that nature?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And the reason I
wanted to interrupt at this point, Mr. Chairman, there were
two issues in this draft that I had some problems with, and
this was one of them.
I think we should be able to acquire conservation
easements in the form approved by the Board. Where I felt
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that there was a problem here was keeping the development
rights on that property, and that's the part that is raising
some concern. So if we are to eliminate all of that, I'd like
to still keep the portion in there about acquisition of property
can be in fee or by conservation easement in a form
approved by the Board. I think that's an important policy.
The issue of whether we retain the development rights on
that property, I think, we could save that for a future
conversation. But I'd like to still have the ability to have a
conservation easement.
MS. COOK: Understood.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I'll just make
that point. And I'm sure we're going to get to a point of
voting on this, and I'll raise it again.
MS. COOK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I completely
concur with the ability to acquire by conservation easement.
It's just -- always been my want to have those property rights
inured to the benefit of the county and not be extinguished.
The current language -- the current language was pretty
easy. Conservation Collier buys a piece of property in
whatever form or format, and the development rights were
extinguished. I would like for that to not happen.
If, in fact, that requires a Comp Plan amendment at
some particular point in time in the future, then we need to
address that as is -- as we go forward. But I don't want the
development rights to be extinguished.
MS. COOK: Okay. And depending on where this
goes, if that's something that the Commission would want,
we could bring back that policy.
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The second major change in this section is that the
Board may sell Conservation Collier lands provided that the
proceeds of the sale are put back into the program and may
only be used for additional Conservation Collier acquisition
purchases or maintenance. CCLAC did not agree with
the -- with the addition of this language as they did not feel
that the characteristics of the land or quality of the land
would change such that the lands would no longer qualify
for the program; however, it's important to note that very
similar language is already elsewhere in the ordinance that
the Board has the authority to sell land. So staff doesn't
necessarily have an opinion either way if this is included in
a second section of the ordinance.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I have a question right there.
So if we have -- I'm just -- I don't know if -- on the Veterans
Memorial Phase 2 extension, is there some Conservation
Collier property that's in that -- in that plan?
MS. COOK: Yes, where the road is going through.
The road right-of-way was already excluded from the
Conservation Collier property, but there is some stormwater
considerations that Roads will need to utilize Conservation
Collier lands for.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I guess my question would be,
if it wasn't excluded and that would be the case where we
had some Conservation Collier property that we needed to
sell -- I understand wanting the money to go back into the
program, but in that case it could be used for that road -- that
infrastructure that's for the public -- for the public good
instead of just being used however we want to. That would
just be a comment that I would raise.
Commissioner McDaniel.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And my
comment has to do with the -- you know, I did read that
there were opportunities for dispositions by this board. I
just want a point of clarification that minimum equivalency
is provided for what we paid for it in the first place. I don't
want it to just be deemed excess property and dumped off at
a loss.
MS. COOK: Understood, and I believe staff would
feel the same way.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It doesn't say that in
here, though, so -- it just says we have the right to sell it,
which is nice, but I would like a provision of a minimum
equivalency before it's even considered.
MS. COOK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Viva appreciation.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chair.
Yeah, when it comes to that, I would just like to see a
lot of specificity and have it be the exception, not the rule.
I think, you know, people that are supporters of
Conservation Collier, the expectation is when Conservation
Collier buys land -- we've even said it up here before, "Oh,
we buy it in perpetuity, we buy it in perpetuity." So this
would be for very unique circumstances, and it wouldn't -- it
would be the exception, not the rule.
So the verbiage here had to be very clear, not
ambiguous. And it looks like, you know, there's always a
loophole, there's an end-around. And, you know, yeah, we
just -- we're proud of ourselves. We just bought some
Conservation Collier land but, you know, there's always
something we can do down the road.
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So if you're going to bring something back to us, clarity
is very important here is just, you know, my -- and that it's
the exception, not the rule. It's for something very, very
unique that we could not foresee, not to make it sound like
at our discretion we can sell Conservation Collier land
because we want to build an apartment complex. And I
know that's not what it would be.
But, you know, as Commissioner Saunders always
says, words matter, and people who don't have as much
depth and knowledge of Conservation Collier as you do and
as we try to have, we don't want them to read it for the first
time and it looks like we just watered down Conservation
Collier and gave us an opportunity to sell land that
that -- you know, down the road that that program, you
know, purchased. So that's --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Well said, and I'm pretty sure
that's what our intent is here.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
And this may be a question for the County Attorney as
well. So we have this language about selling the property.
And, I agree, we should always maximize that price. And,
obviously, the property can't be sold unless it comes to the
Board, so the Board will have that information.
But I want to turn to Page 4, Section 6, because there's
some language that is impacted by that, and that language
deals with the use of the funds that go into Conservation
Collier. And it says, at the direction of the Board, funds
may be transferred between two funds, which we've talked
about, or used for any other county purpose. And I do have
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an objection to that language.
But assuming that language goes into this ordinance,
my assumption would be no matter what we say here in
terms of the proceeds can only be used for additional
purchases of environmental sensitive land, there's a
conflicting section that says that the money going in there
can be used for any purpose.
So would at least those funds be protected from being
used for any other purpose, Mr. Klatzkow, or does that
section kind of supersede, if you will, what we're -- we just
talked about in terms of the sale of property?
MR. KLATZKOW: The intent behind this clause is
what the Board did during its second budget hearing where
there was allocations taken from the Conservation Collier
Trust Fund. So this is simply mirroring what the Board has
done.
And at the end of the day, sir, this is a policy, and a
majority of the Board could change this policy at any time.
That's just the nature of it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, obviously,
when we get to this section -- when staff gets to that section,
I want to discuss this -- that specific language. I know the
Board always has the ability to take those funds and use
them for other county purposes. I understand that. But
we're creating an ordinance that specifically says that, and I
just think that that sends the wrong message.
And so we'll have some conversation about that when
we get to that language. But I wanted to see if there was a
conflict between those two sections.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't see a conflict, no.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I think what
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you're saying is, regardless of whether we sell property, that
fund -- those funds go into the Conservation Collier
Program, but can still be used for other purposes based on
this language.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wanted
clarification on that.
MS. COOK: Okay. The next change -- one of the
things that you had asked us to do when we expedited the
process -- so this change in policy would be that instead of
large Active Acquisition Lists with 20, 30 properties coming
to you at one board meeting, they would be split up so, as
they're ready to go, if we have two or three parcels that we're
bringing to you for consideration for acquisition to begin our
appraisals and due diligence, we bring them forward. So if
we have two, we bring two; if we have five, we bring five.
And that way properties aren't sitting in limbo for five or six
months till we have a large enough acquisition list to bring
to you.
The next section, the procedures for selection and
purchase, staff is adding -- is recommending that additional
changes be made to the initial screening criteria for
acquisition, and the additions are highlighted in yellow on
your screen. So previously there was only one
characteristic for habitat, and many of the parcels were able
to meet that other native habitat within the category.
So staff is recommending using these classifications as
they've been identified by the University of Florida, Florida
Fish and Wildlife, and the Florida Naturals Area Inventory
as important for natural resource protection.
Additionally, staff is also recommending including
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larger tracts of land, so areas that are over 20 acres in size,
as well as parcels within the target protection mailing areas
as acquisition criteria. These criteria were included in
discussions with the CCLAC and supported by both the
subcommittee and the full committee.
Again, you had asked us to expedite that acquisition
process. So as we updated the criteria from six to nine,
staff is recommending that instead of meeting two of the
criteria, you would -- parcels would have to meet three of
the criteria to be considered for acquisition. If they don't
meet -- if they were not to meet at least three, then they
would still be presented to CCLAC, and with a majority
vote of CCLAC, they could be forwarded to you for
consideration. But if there were three -- again, going back
to that list that we've added, there's now three different
habitat criteria on there, and it wouldn't be possible for it to
meet all three of those habitat criteria. It would only be
able to meet one as a maximum. So therefore, at the most,
of the nine criteria, it could meet seven at a max.
Additionally, for acquisition, if they have five out of
nine criteria -- and, again, they would only be able to meet
seven at most -- those would be -- forego the CCLAC
process and come straight to the Board for consideration.
CCLAC did not agree with the addition of this item, as the
committee felt that being heard by the CCLAC provided for
more transparency, provided more opportunity for public
comment, and any concerns could be addressed at CCLAC
instead of at the Board.
Additionally, with some of the other -- some of the
other items that were up for consideration to speed up
acquisitions, they didn't feel that this -- that this would be
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necessary.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just a quick
question before you change.
MS. COOK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go back to that
other.
Do we have the staff internally to make the decisions
about the screening process to determine five of nine, seven
of nine, three of nine, whatever the case is? How is that
determination in, fact, effectuated?
MS. COOK: It is done by staff internally with review
of the property. They do the soils mapping and testing;
they do site visits; they actually go out to look for listed
species on the property, wetlands, habitats, features on the
property, so yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the one quick
thought that I had was, you know, is there a potential for the
property owner who's submitting the property for acquisition
to do some of that analysis in advance that wouldn't
necessitate staff time but could be verified should the Board
decide to go forward with it that those criterium are met?
MS. COOK: Potentially, yes. Some property owners
have had wetland determinations done on the property or
listed species surveys for whatever reason, and if they have,
you know, we accept those and then verify on site.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. COOK: The final -- the final item in this section
for your consideration is that currently purchase agreements,
once we've gone through the process, gotten an appraisal,
done any due diligence, we make an offer to the property
owner. If they accept that offer, then the purchase
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agreement goes to CCLAC before it comes to you. So that
does add a little bit of time before it comes to you.
Staff is recommending that purchase agreements, once
accepted by the property owner, come directly to you and
forego CCLAC. Neither staff nor CCLAC had any
concerns with -- with this change.
Some additional subcommittee recommendations that
were not included were adding "in perpetuity" to the
definition of management. That may potentially make
properties more difficult to sell or ineligible for a sale,
which conflicts with other items currently in the ordinance.
The subcommittee recommended that any voting that's
done changing funding percentages, allocating monies to
other purposes, or extension of the program by Board
decision be done by a supermajority vote which, again, may
make some of these activities more difficult depending on
the composition of the Board, so staff wouldn't have
recommended that change as well.
And then, finally, during the subcommittee meeting, it
was recommended that an additional criteria of lands which
provide climate resiliency for drought, flooding, or wildfires
be included; however, community planning and resiliency is
within GMD's purview, and upon speaking with the director
of that division, basically any open space is already
providing that resiliency for wildfires, drought, and
flooding, so it doesn't necessarily need to be included.
So our recommendation today is to, obviously, direct us
to bring back the ordinance which would amend the current
ordinance, and as long as -- as well as and feedback from
you-all of changes you would like us to make in the
proposed ordinance beyond what I've presented today.
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And with that, I'll take any comments or questions.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Mr. Klatzkow, in perpetuity, if
the program ever was to sunset, would we have the
responsibility to maintain what was purchased?
MR. KLATZKOW: "In perpetuity" means three votes
in this boardroom so that at anytime a future Board of
County Commissioners can elect to do what they wish.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great, thanks.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I had a
comment with regard to somewhere -- I did most of my
notes on the line -- the numbered line ordinance
adjustments. I really like that provision. That allowed me
to jump around and not have to go to page and paragraph.
But in and around Line Items 151 through 153 -- and
this has to do with what Commissioner Saunders was talking
about with the combination, if you will, of the funds to be
there. Is it really requisite that we have to set a percentage
on an annual basis attributable to maintenance if there is a
fund?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. That was
what I thought.
And then the second part is I think we as a Board
should regularly visit the aggregate fund and make sure that
limitations are put upon future boards -- and I know you
have an issue with us doing anything in the future -- but a
limitation of a minimum balance be kept in the fund for
ongoing maintenance based upon -- based upon the previous
three or five years' ongoing expenditures.
MR. KLATZKOW: You would need to set up a
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third-party trustee, if you wanted to implement that, to take
the power away from the Board.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's an interesting
perspective.
My thought is I'm not all that -- I'm not all that happy
about a third-party trustee, but I think some consideration
ought to be given to -- similar to, like it or don't, what the
Board did last year with regard to the utilization of the
aggregate fund, both combined acquisitions and
maintenance. There was a reason and a rationale for
why -- we had averaged about 1.2, 1.5. I remember five
years ago the ongoing maintenance had been about 750,000
a year, and I'd like to -- I would like for us to give
consideration to establishing a matrix, if you will, or a
calculation based upon the last three or five years' average
expenditures so that we certainly -- anybody in the future
that looks to maneuver money around isn't withdrawing
sufficient funds that would cause us to be burdened for those
ongoing expenses.
MR. FINN: If I may, Mr. Chairman. Edward Finn,
Deputy County Manager.
The setup of these budgets is actually fairly -- it's as
sophisticated as anything we do here. There's actually
presently a separate fund for the maintenance side of the
house. Further, that maintenance budget, in addition to
including the reserves -- the reserves that exist there from an
escrow or an endowment basis, also has the individual major
preserves identified as project numbers or WBS codes. So
you have cost centers, you have projects that refer to the
individual preserves, and the budgets for those preserves are
established every year and, certainly, staff is capable of
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projecting those budgets out three, four, five years as
necessary and, to a certain extent, they do do that. That's
the current structure. So it does provide for most of what
you're looking for.
Certainly, the -- if we're going to lean down the
endowment, then the annual revenue to support that, that
picture kind of changes. And if you're looking for a
sophisticated burndown approach on what's left or some
attempt to balance burndown against an annual revenue,
certainly staff can do that on an annual or a multiyear basis
if you desire.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure. We did
that -- we did that the last time, and it was a fairly easily
ascertainable number that we put in place to just ensure that
we had sufficient revenues going forward to take care of that
maintenance.
So I just -- if it's requisite we have a third party, then
we don't necessarily have to do that. I'm not interested in a
third party at this stage. I just want that to be given
consideration in the event that this ordinance moves forward
and that the aggregation of the fund is completed.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I had spoken
with each of you yesterday about the setup for our coastal
zone groups, and we do have a separate policy relative to the
reserve for catastrophe for the very reasons you're describing
here -- different, obviously, for the beaches -- but to be able
to fund up at least a portion up to a major event. So it sets a
threshold that we build every year to a maximum amount.
That amount used to be $500,000 a year to a maximum
amount of $10 million, and that was to be used for nothing,
but this reserve for catastrophe now is $500,000 a year to a
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max of $15 million.
So I'm certain that if we can get the Board's perspective
on what you think that ceiling is that -- your comfort level,
perhaps we can work with the County Attorney to set up
something like that. It's not -- obviously, it could be
changed by future boards, but there is a thought process then
and at least a level of protection provided for that perpetuity
maintenance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure. And that may
be a good way to go. I'm fine with that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So the way it is right now, we
have just kind of like a swagged 75/25 split, and then the
interest takes care of the maintenance even though we still
fund it with 25 percent?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's not a swag.
There's a reason for it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: No, no. I'm just saying that's
the way it is now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, that's the way it
is.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Just good round numbers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that's been
adjusted from previous discussions. It used to be 85/15.
And the word "in perpetuity" with that reserve fund was
removed because it was a misnomer that that was an
in-perpetuity fund. But it had a burn rate. It had a
limitation. It had an amount, and it wasn't forever. It was
termed out based upon the available funds at that time.
So we increased -- that was one of the adjustments we
made four or five years ago, increasing the revenue stream
to an attributable 25 percent instead of 15.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: So with this ordinance change,
there's no requirements, I guess, that we change anything.
We just say that we have to -- we set that every year.
Commissioner Kowal, and then we'll go to public
comment.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just dropped my pen down there, but I --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I've got mine.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's all right.
When I was reading all this and studying this all before
when we were going to the budget meetings back last year,
these lines to me -- I think the new -- the way it's written
now, in the language in here now, it gives us the ability
to -- because I knew the 75/25 was in the language at one
point, and we were kind of sticking to it. But I think with
the way the ordinance is written now, if I'm not mistaken,
this will give us the ability to say, all right, this is a target
number in the Maintenance Fund, and we can get to that
quicker -- sooner than later to get to that ultimate number
that we can use as interest to keep chugging along and keep
the maintenance going, you know, even if it's for one or two
years down the road that -- maybe not as much in
acquisition, but at least we'll be there and have a minimum
amount, and I like the idea of what the County Manager was
talking about, if there's a way to do that, to kind of say, well,
all right, this is a maximum/minimum that's in there all the
time. You know, I think that would help us down the road
and definitely -- regarding if the program's still -- you know,
after 10 years is still here or not, but we'll still have the
money to take care of what we have. So that -- you know, I
think this language in here kind of gives us that flexibility, if
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I'm not mistaken, correct?
So all right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Troy.
MR. MILLER: We have two registered speakers,
Mr. Chairman. Your first speaker is Michelle Lenhard, and
she will be followed by Brad Cornell.
MS. LENHARD: Good morning, Commissioners.
Michelle Lenhard, chairman of Conservation Collier.
Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak to
you today on the proposed changes to Ordinance 2002-63.
Some of the information I wrote down Jaime already
discussed with you, but the subcommittee did meet to
review this, had a very robust discussion.
The first item, and the sake of brevity, is Section 5
under definitions. I know the issue of perpetuity has come
up. The intent of the program and the original ballot
language includes the language "perpetuity," and I believe
that the intent of the public in terms of reaffirming this vote
for this program speaks to the importance of perpetuity
being retained in terms of this ordinance.
The definition -- a definition for Conservation Collier
lands has been excluded from the definitions sections, and
CCLAC recommends that all parcels of land acquired under
Conservation Collier be defined as such.
Section 8, or properties eligible for acquisition and
maintenance, Item 5 speaks to the sale of Conservation
Collier lands, as has your discussion. The committee, as
mentioned, does not support the intent or wording of this
item since the goal of the program is to retain properties in
perpetuity.
But to assure fairness to the public, if this is where the
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Board wishes to go on this, CCLAC's recommendation feels
that there should be a threshold of criteria defined as with
acquisitions. So selling properties would have some
criteria -- some detail established with it, which I think some
of your conversation has spoken about, but I think would be
very reassuring to the public in terms of ambiguity and the
wording of that section.
Section 12 speaks to procedures for the selection of
acquisition proposals and placement on the acquisition list.
The acquisition process has been streamlined.
So Item 2, where it was mentioned, CCLAC does not
support parcels of land automatically coming forward to
you, because even though the staff does evaluate them and
does provide -- can provide criteria numbers to us, that
would eliminate, be in consideration, is this property in a
target protections area? What if the property coming to you
is one acre?
So coming before CCLAC, it would not slow down the
process, I feel, dramatically at this point in time, and I think
that at that point this section might be able to be eliminated
or the thought of that.
The last item I have does speak to voting and the
supermajority recommendation of CCLAC. We request
that the Board's votes on key areas of processing such as
establishing millage rates and transferring funding between
trust funds requires supermajority of members. Information
shared with the public during the voting process explains the
use of tax dollars including specific ranges, as you've
discussed for acquisition and management.
Conservation Collier, as a stand-alone program,
received overwhelming support, and so a collaborative
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process of a supermajority is what we're recommending.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next and final speaker on this
item is Brad Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, Commissioners,
Brad Cornell. I'm here on behalf of Audubon Western
Everglades and Audubon Florida. Appreciate the
opportunity to address you on this.
Audubon really applauds the Board for your work to
fulfill the wishes of the voters who overwhelmingly want to
see Conservation Collier succeed, to see land
acquisition -- conservation land acquisition move forward
expeditiously. So we're very happy to see your work on
this today and in the coming hearing if you choose to direct
staff to bring this back, which we recommend you do.
A couple of points I wanted to bring up about the
ordinance in front of you, the draft in front of you.
Audubon agrees with staff that right now the conservation
easement and the transfer of development rights policies that
have been included in here are not fully ready to be
implemented. They need work with the Growth
Management division staff and with CCLAC and with the
public to try and figure out how are we going to include
those sorts of strategies in the setup that we have now?
For instance, conservation easements typically do not
allow public access. Public access is one of the hallmarks
of our preserves. So we've got to -- we've got to sort out
that conflict.
And in the TDR program, TDRs, as they're referred to
in the draft language, looks at the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use
District. But there are other sending and receiving lands
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throughout the county. What are we talking about in terms
of transfer of development right policies as they relate to
conservation land purchase?
So I think we're premature in including this in the
Conservation Collier ordinance. That doesn't mean that
there's not value or there's not something to be explored, but
I think you're premature in including those now.
Regarding the purpose of the revisions to the
ordinance, there are some cleanup languages here in
addition to what we've just discussed, but also expedition of
the process to acquire conservation lands is the primary
objective here. And you've got two really good policies in
here. One is to evaluate applications as they're received and
bring them to you as quickly as possible rather than
accumulating them in a lump, like, every six months or
every year. That delayed unnecessarily. So I think that's a
wise strategy.
And the other one, which seems like a no-brainer, and
you-all have heard of this before, and that is skipping the
CCLAC review, the advisory committee review for
contracts. Contracts, you know, are just rubber stamped by
CCLAC. That delays it by a month or more. So just bring
it right to you, and that's in here, too. So we think that's a
great strategy.
Again, thank you for your work on expediting the
acquisition process. We support it. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Brad.
Do we want to take a court reporter break and then
come back and finish discussion?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. If we have more
conversation that's going to happen, which I believe it is
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with the Board, then it's time for a court reporter break.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Let's do it. So it's 10:43.
We'll come back at five till.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
(A brief recess was had from 10:43 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So do we have any discussion
that we want to continue on this ordinance? Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We could certainly
continue the discussion if it's the will of the Board, but my
thought process is we're voting today on whether or not to
bring back an ordinance in the future for the reconsideration
of Conservation Collier, and so we've got an enormous
amount of suggestion from ourselves and our staff, and my
recommendation -- my motion is to move that forward.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Second.
We have a motion and a second. All in favor to move
this forward?
Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Oh.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go ahead. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I apologize. I was
extremely slow on pushing the button there.
I'm going vote to move to forward with the advertising
of an ordinance. I have some issues with what's being
advertised and, obviously, we can make all the changes.
But I'm going to encourage the folks that are really
interested in this program to really evaluate what's
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advertised line by line, and let's make sure that when this
comes back, if there are issues to be raised, I want to have
those out there so we can raise those issues. I will have
several. I mentioned a couple this morning, Mr. Chairman,
so I'll reraise those when this comes back. But I am going
to support the motion to move forward.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So the motion stands, and you
just -- with your comments. Okay. Great.
So all in favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: It passes.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
Item #11B
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE MCDOWELL
HOUSING PARTNERS - EKOS ON COLLIER APPLICATION
FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING LAND ACQUISITION SURTAX
FUNDING. (CORMAC GIBLIN, DIRECTOR, HOUSING POLICY
& ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT) (ALL DISTRICTS) - MOTION
TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - APPROVED – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 11B. This is a recommendation to approve the
McDowell Housing Partners Ekos on Collier application for
Workforce Housing Land Acquisition Surtax Funding.
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Mr. Cormac Giblin, your director of Housing Policy
and Economic Development, is here to present.
MR. GIBLIN: Good morning, Commissioners.
Again, for the record, Cormac Giblin, your director of
Housing Policy and Economic Development.
We're here to bring you the first of a request to use the
infrastructure surtax monies to purchase land for workforce
housing.
Just a little bit of a recap. The infrastructure surtax
was approved by the voters starting in 2018. Of that total
fund, $20 million was set aside for workforce housing land
acquisition, which was deemed as one of the several
community priorities that were included in the tax.
Last March, we brought an application acquisition
policy to you, an application review and recommendation
policy, and since then we've received five applications
totaling over $26 million. This is the first one that's made it
through that process and is before you today for acquisition.
What we have is an application process that looks at all
aspects of the development from the zoning, the growth
management, the environmental, the project team, the
financing, the whole package, and then that application
moves through your advisory committees, starting with the
Affordable Housing Advisory Committee. That committee
voted to recommend approval at their November 28th
meeting, and then further it went to the Infrastructure Surtax
Citizens Advisory Committee at their January 11th meeting,
and that committee, likewise, voted unanimously to forward
it with -- that it was a validated expense.
A little bit about the specifics of this property. It's
about 7.3 acres. It's off of Collier Boulevard heading south
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towards Marco Island, south of U.S. 41.
We had a subject-matter team of experts from within
Growth Management and other divisions review the
application for, as I said, zoning, growth management,
environmental, floodplain resiliency, all the things that you
would look at when you're concerned about buying a piece
of property for a residential development. That -- a score
was assigned, or a score was arrived at, and it was presented
to the advisory committees.
One thing of note on this property is that it does lie in
the Coastal High Hazard Area, which is an area that is prone
to evacuation and other disasters. You have a -- you have
competing elements in your Growth Management Plan.
You have a Coastal Conservation Element, and you have a
Housing Element.
The Coastal Conservation Element cautions against
spending public funding in the Coastal High Hazard Area.
The Housing Element recommends spending funding to
further housing affordability throughout the county. And
that's just a point to bring for your -- for your consideration.
Given that, both advisory committees were made aware
of that point and both voted to recommend approval.
With me today I have Mr. Pat McDowell, Mr. Chris
Shear, Mr. Bill Zinerman, and Ms. Scarlet Perez from
McDowell Housing Partners, and they're going to run
through their application and the highlights of their
presentation, unless you have any questions for me before I
turn it over.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I did have a
question. The primary question was, how long will
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this -- this development be held in affordable status? It
wasn't clear in the documentation that I read.
MR. GIBLIN: Sure. Similar to the arrangement that
the county currently has in the Ekos on Santa Barbara
property, formerly known as the Bembridge PUD, the
developer would take -- do a 99-year land lease with the
county and keep it affordable in perpetuity or 99 years, and
we have a similar arrangement in the Golden Gate Golf
Course with the developer we're partnering with there.
Again, a 99-year lease. And this property would
be -- Collier County would maintain ownership of this land
for as long as the Board sees fit. So it's really up to the
Board how long you would like to keep it affordable, but the
standard would be a 99-year development agreement.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So there would be a
99-year lease encumbering the property, and at the
expiration of that, then a future board, which Mr. Klatzkow
doesn't like us messing with, a future board would make a
determination as to what the best utilization would be?
MR. GIBLIN: That would be correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then my second
question had to do with being in the Coastal High Hazard
Area. Are there going to be circumstances that are requisite
for additional expenses associated with that?
MR. GIBLIN: The developer was asked to address the
consequences of being located in the Coastal High Hazard
Area. They have made some enhancements to their
application to address that. I'll let them address it when
they get to it, but, you know, development occurs in the
Coastal High Hazard Area in this county every day.
There's --
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Regularly, sure.
MR. GIBLIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the only other
point of clarification -- and maybe they'll get to it. Forgive
me if I'm asking my questions before you present. But
there wasn't a specific -- it said 100 percent affordable, and
then anywhere from 30 percent up to 80 of AMI but not
a -- is there going to be a flexibility allowed to move based
upon some matrix of need?
MR. GIBLIN: The next step in this process, assuming
the Board authorizes us to move forward with negotiating
the sale, would be that we bring back the property contract
along with a developer agreement, and then in that
development agreement will be the specifics on number
of -- number of units at which affordability levels within the
development.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So on that note,
what I would like to see -- and I enjoy the flexibility for
housing affordability, but that needs to be done with
pragmatism. It needs to be done on the premise that the
need today will be different 10 years from now as similarly
as it was different 10 years before. And so I want that
flexibility to be able to maneuver these developments to be
able to service our community but certainly, at the same
time, with pragmatism based upon a need.
MR. GIBLIN: Understood.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's all.
MR. GIBLIN: All right. With that, I'll turn it over to
the McDowell team.
MR. McDOWELL: Good morning. Can we go to the
next slide? Can we get it up? There we go. Okay, great.
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Good morning, again. I know I've met some of you,
but for the record I'm Pat McDowell, and I am the founder
and owner of McDowell Housing Partners as well with the
parent company, McDowell Properties.
The best way to describe my company is that both
companies have a singular focus, and that is to provide
rental housing for workforce and senior residents of
communities that we build properties in and that we buy and
own properties in.
We're a vertically integrated company. We have an
acquisition team, we have a development team, a
construction management team, an asset management team,
finance, accounting. We even have our own interior design
group that designs the interiors of the units as well as
designs the common areas for the community that meets the
demographic need.
McDowell Housing Partners is singularly focused on
developing affordable housing. We currently have 1,700
units either completed or under development. We started
the company in 2019, so we're only five years old, that
company. The main company was started in 2004.
We have 1,700 units that have been completed or are
under construction. Most of them are financed with
low-income-housing tax credits. The three properties that
have been completed -- we have 11 total properties. Three
have been completed. All of them are in Florida. One's in
the Panhandle, one is in Tallahassee, and one's here in
Naples. It was mentioned. You know, Ekos on Santa
Barbara.
The other eight properties that are still under
construction, two in Texas and six in the state of Florida,
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and all of those are going to be complete over the
next -- most of them over the next five months, and we have
two, one in Broward and one in Miami-Dade, that will be
completed at the end of the year.
My focus on building affordable housing is to provide
more than acceptable places to live for people who can't
afford market-rate housing. And it's a passion of mine. It's
something that I looked at. I've been in the business for a
long time, as you can probably see. And this has become a
passion of mine.
And when you take a look at the communities we build,
they don't look affordable. You go to Ekos on Santa
Barbara, and you drive by, and it looks like a Class A
market-rate property, and that's the kind of asset we're
building. We want to build communities that our tenants
have pride in ownership and pride in living there and pride
to bring their friends to enjoy the common areas over the
weekend, et cetera.
The parent company, McDowell Properties, buys and
renovates workforce housing. We bought, since 2004, over
45,000 units in approximately 170 communities. What we
do is we buy a property that's older, and then we turn around
and we renovate the interior of the units, and then we
renovate the common areas to make them more specific to
the demographic. Demographic today is not the same as
the demographic need was 1990 or 1980. So we changed
those communities. Again, we make them better places to
live for the workforce community.
The other thing that we do in that company is we buy
Freddie Mac subordinated debt. We're very close to
Freddie Mac. We've bought $500 million of their debt over
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the last 10 years, and this, again, is all workforce housing.
That debt is debt on workforce housing. So, again, the
focus of the company is affordable and workforce.
Now, the last thing I want to say before I turn it over to
Chris is that, you know, partnerships are very, very
important to me. I believe that you have to develop
partnerships in business to be successful, and it's particularly
true in the development business, I've discovered. If you
don't have, you know, an engineer or an architect, a legal
team, et cetera, that are really your partners, even though
they're third parties, you can't get the job done. And, most
importantly, you have to have a partner in the community, in
the county or the state that you're working in. And we are
very proud of the fact that we have Collier County as a
partner because we have three projects now that we have
ongoing. One complete, two are going to be complete, and
hopefully we're going to have a fourth project to go with
you, and that partnership, to me, it's extremely important in
terms of the value and the way I look at the business world,
and hopefully we can continue that partnership even beyond
the project we're talking about today.
So with that, I'd like to just turn this over to Chris, and
he'll talk about the project.
MR. SHEAR: Good morning, Chair, Commissioners.
Very happy to be here. We've been at this project -- Chris
Shear, for the record. I'm COO of McDowell Housing
Partners.
We've been at this project for a little over a year now.
We've brought it in front of staff. We've brought it in front
of the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee. We've
submitted it for funding to the State of Florida now a couple
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times, and there's some good news on that end that I'll be
sharing within the presentation.
But we've heard the concerns. We certainly know the
need at this county right now. We had our ribbon cutting
for Ekos on Santa Barbara, which is our first partnership
with the county, very similar to this in terms of the land
conveyance. And we're well into the hundreds on our
waiting list at this point.
So I think the objective here is to deliver and deliver
quickly because the shortage of housing is only continuing
to grow.
So just briefly through a few slides on who we are.
Pat covered a lot of the bases. We have three projects
under construction here -- we've been working in the county
since late 2019, and so we've been able to secure funding
largely from Florida Housing Finance Corporation and, on
Ekos on Santa Barbara, in partnership with the county itself
to develop these three properties. Total -- what do we have
320 -- 402 units.
The first one is a family development. The second
two, Ekos Allegro, Ekos Cadenza, are both senior
developments. They'll be dedicated to a 62-plus
population. They have a mix of income ranges going up to
60 percent of the area median income.
And Ekos on Santa Barbara is more of a workforce
product that services residents of the county up to 80 percent
of the area median income, and that is what we're proposing
with the current project is to continue to serve a larger band
of incomes to try to get, really, more of a focus on your
essential service workers and your county staff and all the
hardship we're seeing and continuing to hear as we are
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leasing our assets at this point.
A couple nice pictures. We like to show this one off.
So this is Ekos on Santa Barbara. We had the pleasure of
hosting a couple of commissioners at this ribbon cutting just
a couple weeks ago, 82 units, as mentioned. We have
seven county employees living there, and really the only
constraint there in servicing, you know, your employees and
other essential service workers is just the limitation of the
size of the development itself. A huge waiting list. It
leased up, you know, almost immediately, and we're in the
process of just physically moving the last few folks in at this
point.
Ekos Allegro and Cadenzas, this is right behind
Physicians Regional Hospital, and it's 320 units. It is in
partnership with the Collier County Community Land Trust,
which was established, oh, not that long ago -- I would say
within the last five years -- to work in conjunction with the
county to ensure that properties remain affordable, that
there's a conduit for the county's mission that aligns with the
land trust to continue the development, and high-quality
development at that.
Something unique about these projects -- and this is
what we really strive to do -- is not only deliver housing.
We know there's a need for that. You could build a very
inferior product and still have a lot of demand. The
intention here is to provide really a quality of life that you're
not going to get at a market-rate housing community even,
and that comes with services, particularly in the senior
realm.
So we've partnered with the county Senior Citizens
Nutrition and Activity Program, and they're going to
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be -- we dedicated a space, built out a -- sort of a mini
kitchen, you know, coolers, sink, et cetera. They're going
to be providing daily meal services at the property for our
seniors, and it may even be open to the public. I'm not sure
on that fact. But it's going to be another outlet for the
county service to maybe implement it, and most of our
seniors are going to be taking advantage of that. I think
that's a very -- it's a very pointed service that we typically
don't see, so we're really excited about that one.
We also have a partnership with Healthcare Networks
of Southwest Florida. We've dedicated an exam room.
We'll have a practitioner there on a regular basis. They'll be
coming in, doing basic immunizations, exams, anything that
can be services. It's their largest, I think,
Medicare/Medicaid provider in -- one of the largest in the
state, but particularly in this market. So we're looking
forward to being able to service not only our residents with
housing but with health and wellness as well.
What it really comes down to today, that we think
we've demonstrated and we've continued to look at is, you
know, let's talk about the timeline and execution. We've
been in the county working here for about four years now.
We've learned a lot. We have the experience to -- and the
ability to execute, and I think that's where, you know,
looking at other projects, every county's unique. There's a
lot of nuance. There's a lot of different processes and
procedures you've got to be familiar with, and we have the
distinct advantage of being able to move a project forward
with that knowledge and with that rapport with your staff.
We're familiar with the lease agreement itself, which is a
heavy document that could be negotiated over many months,
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I think that would be expedited in this process given that
we've already negotiated one that we're utilizing on the
Bembridge parcel.
In addition, we're very familiar with the neighborhood
engagement process. You know, it's a tough thing to
navigate, but we understand the importance of that, getting
the community involved, looking for feedback from their
end. We want this to be part of the fabric of the
community, not just another building with another name on
it.
We've learned a lot also on the construction and design
side. This is a tough market to build in, especially coming
out of COVID. It was probably the hardest construction
phase that I've ever seen in my career and many will say
that's ever been experienced. We had labor issues, we had
material supply issues, a lot of subcontractor issues, and
we've learned a lot of lessons. So I think all of that is really
part of how we can improve upon what we've done already
and, effectively, meet a timeline that's much more expedited
than you would otherwise see with a new developer coming
in posing a similar project. So we hope you take that into
consideration.
You know, the last thing is our ability to mitigate risk.
So we have access to various insurance programs.
Insurance is a very interesting market right now. Frankly,
we all know it's skyrocketed, and I don't see it coming back
down anytime soon, so there's a lot of competing interests, a
lot of headwinds, and I just wanted to talk a little bit about
our ability to mitigate those and our ability to execute if we
move this deal forward.
So we talked about the location. As you can see, it's
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right off of a major commercial intersection. We're about a
quarter mile away from 41, from Tamiami Trail. Next to a
Walmart, next to a Publix, which is really two of the biggest
amenities you can have in a workforce housing community;
people will be using on a daily basis.
Development program. So I wanted to hit on our
current mix. There is some flexibility in here; however,
we've really tried to utilize -- this development was really
taken in consideration of the new Live Local Act, Senate
Bill 102. And so what we've done to really optimize the
site that allows us to be efficient still so we can afford to
actually build the product has devised a seven-story single
building with a separate clubhouse and all amenities, you
know, within the 7-point acres.
We have a mix of one-, two- and three-bedrooms.
Those rents do range from 33 to 80 percent. But one thing I
wanted to stress to Commissioner McDaniel's question is
that we are trying to service more 80 percent units. And it's
not just 80 percent. It's anyone 80 percent or below. So if
you're at the 50 percent AMI level, you could still qualify
for an 80 percent unit, but the maximum would be an
80 percent income level, and that changes yearly by HUD's
designation, but the idea is to have more 80 percent units.
Whereas we had a handful of 80 percent units at Ekos and
Bembridge, we're proposing 40 percent of those units be at
80 percent AMI. So it allows us to serve, you know, more
of essential service personnel who are typically between that
60 to 100 percent AMI range.
In terms of the financing, you know, it's -- we've been
looking, since we've been active in this market, scratching
the surface everywhere and looking for opportunities, and
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it's been very constrained by the fact that the county itself
doesn't have these geographic areas that get a boost in our
financing program through the tax credit program. You just
look at these quick maps. You can see the areas that are
shaded are the areas that get that boost, and the one on the
left we just happen to be in. That's a qualified census tract.
The areas on the right, those are difficult development
areas, and they're largely rural areas or very developed areas
already where there virtually is no land or no land that we
could afford.
Going down to the current zoning, as I mentioned, we
are utilizing the Live Local Act, so this property is zoned
C-3, has a small portion of MH, which is the mobile home
park. Very small portion. And we've been working with
your zoning staff to determine how we can utilize that site to
provide us with flexibility and more efficiency but not have
to go through an extensive rezoning process, and I think we
have some great feedback on that right now.
So this project can move forward with administrative
approval through the site development permit process under
the Live Local Act. So this could move very quickly
through that process and not have to be subject to a lengthy
rezoning public-hearing process.
I hit on this already, so I'm just going to skip over this
slide. But just some other facts on the current zoning and
SB102.
So the request today: We are here asking for a
partnership similar to what we're undertaking already
whereby the county acquires the land and leases it back to
us, and we're also asking for the traditional services
incentives that the county provides for workforce and
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affordable housing. So I think that's an expedited permit
process that allows us to, I believe, move a little quicker
through the process as well as the impact fee program.
I won't hit on this too much, but we do meet all the
surtax funding goals as they were outlined within that
solicitation or within that program and policies.
And some of the features of the project: We would
propose to run the lease through the land trust as well, which
gives us some additional incentive, as a land trust has
opportunities to access capital. They have opportunities for
ad valorem exemptions on the land portion of the property
through Live Local. The other ones are just basic features
that you'll hit.
So I will move you on to the great news, and this
is -- this is fresh off the press. So as of just last week, there
was a solicitation for their $150 million that the Live Local
Act has now granted to Florida Housing to administer for
the development of workforce housing, and so Florida
Housing administered a competitive process that had over
70 applications and selected, as this time, preliminary
recommended funding for, I believe, 13 of those
developments. We were one of the recipients of that
preliminary recommendation.
So that basically solves the math problem on the
financing. Now, we're subject to market changes, we're
subject to cost of construction, but overall that solves the
problem along with this surtax allocation and the traditional
incentives that the county offers. We have the ability to
move this project forward as fast as we can and as fast as the
county will work with us to move it forward.
So we're very -- very lucky here. There's a process
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that goes through a formal approval. We'll go in front of
the February 2nd board of directors for Florida Housing.
And then there's an appeal period. We do this a lot. Not to
say that things don't happen, but we're very confident that
our application will stand, and we will not be subject to an
appeal, which means that we will have an invitation to
underwriting probably within the next couple of months.
And that's really just more of a formality to start
underwriting. We're already working on the development.
We're already working with financial partners to align our
debt and our equity and sell our tax credits.
So we heard a little bit about the Conservation and
Coastal Management Element, and I think this is something
we heard feedback on. We got some feedback on a few
different areas, and I want to just talk about how we've
thought about that and addressed that feedback, because I
think it is -- it is conflicting, as Cormac said. You know,
we do have policies to promote development of workforce
housing, and then you have policies that also, you know,
seek to mitigate and to be prudent on your approach to
development within coastal hazard areas.
And so in this case, we have spent time working with
Mr. Summers at the Bureau of Emergency Services. My
understanding is that that -- this project, in particular has
went through their risk assessment/risk analysis and did not
trigger any concerns on that end in terms of being prohibited
or not being able to be mitigated.
So at this moment we do have support from Emergency
Services. There's a couple things that were brought up in
those conversations. We will be committing to put in a
generator in the development. The site is in a flood zone.
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That site will be elevated to a level that takes it one foot out
of the flood zone at the base flood elevation. So all of our
collateral, all of our residents, belongings, everything in the
building will be raised out of the flood zone.
The building will be CMU block, will have impact
windows. You know, all major systems, you know, will be
in accordance with all of the strict requirements that, you
know, the Florida -- the State of Florida also implements
through their building code but also here in Collier County.
You see a lot of development in the coastal areas. There's
natural ways to mitigate it. And if you look at the location
of where we're at, just from a practical standpoint, we're a
quarter mile away from Tamiami, which -- and Collier.
You can go any direction in the county very quickly.
And so in addition that -- and this is just a matter of
practice with all of our developments -- we have notices, we
have regular meetings, especially during hurricane season,
to notify our residents of emergency evacuation plans. We
post that information regularly to make sure everyone is
aware, especially in the senior populations, which this isn't.
But, nonetheless, it's important to us as well as you because
these are our clients. At the end of the day, our residents
are our clients, and we need to make sure that their safety is
first and foremost.
So going back to the CCME, regarding the public
funds, there's -- I've kind of put the puzzle together in this
sense, but it looks like under state statute, Sections
163.3177, it requires the goals and policies and objectives of
the county CMME [sic] to limit expenditures that subsidize
development in Coastal High Hazard Areas, and that's sort
of the language that could be open for interpretation. And
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so we ran this by our land-use counsel at Nelson Mullins,
large attorney overseeing, you know, a number of our
developments, is active within the county, is active within
the western part of the state.
And what we discovered is that, you know, the limit is
really -- that language in and of itself is part of the state
statute which then gets picked up in, I think, every comp
plan that's developed on a local basis. So that is boilerplate
language that's adopted in comp plans throughout the state
throughout many jurisdictions.
It's up to the county in this case to determine if there's
any additional mitigating factors that they want to impose in
that limitation of public funds, and that's where our
conversations with Emergency Management Services came
in.
It does not pro -- does not prohibit public expenditures
from development, but it does say per -- and I have the
letter. I'm happy to distribute to the group or anyone of
interest.
You know, there's often goals. There's often
objectives that you are further stipulated within the policies
of the local government and include specific design
requirements or mandatory mitigation measures that must be
taken for developments in a High Hazard Coastal Area.
And so that's where we're happy to continue that
conversation. We have some thoughts, as I had already laid
out, as to how we see that being done practically, and we
hope that that's not a limiting factor here. We think the
development site, albeit within a Coastal High Hazard Area,
is still very accessible and provides for the safety of our
residents over the long run.
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In terms of funding, after I shared the fact that we are
in good position to be moving this deal forward from a
financing perspective, we are full speed ahead. We're going
to work as fast as we can -- we can with county staff. I
think this project -- to not belabor the timeline -- we could
put a shovel in the ground here within 12 to 16 months, I
think, is a very realistic time frame.
So here's a concept site plan. Saved this, I guess, for
last. This is subject to change. Again, it's a concept. One
of the things we're thinking, we have this great amenity with
Henderson Creek which actually runs all the way out to the
intercoastal, and we feel like it's got real potential to provide
some sort of public access to provide some sort of amenity
not only to our residents but also to the public in general.
So that's things we'll be working with your staff on in
trying to come up with a plan, again, that not only creates a
development but adds some benefit to the public realm as
well.
I am available for questions. My team is here if there's
any questions, but I appreciate your consideration this
morning. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Mr. Shear.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thanks. Thank
you, Chair.
First off, congratulations, and thank you to you,
Cormac, for all your hard work and your team and to -- and
to you, Chris and Mr. McDowell. You know, when we
were there helping to cut the ribbon on Santa Barbara,
there's nothing low income about that facility. I mean, you
put a lot of bells and whistles into it, and that's what we're
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looking for in the community.
I think we all have a challenge with citizens at times
separating rumor from fact where they all scream they don't
want low-income housing by them -- by their
neighborhoods, but they don't understand it. It's just a
high-quality apartment complex that has a percentage of
units priced below AMI, as we all know, but sometimes
citizens don't get that message.
A question I meant to ask you that day -- and then I
have a deeper dive -- how long are the leases that those
people have at Ekos? Are they a year? Twelve months?
Or are they longer? Could they sign longer leases?
MR. SHEAR: One-year leases, but due to Fair
Housing, they are -- they have the opportunity to stay. The
new lease will be put into effect, and those leases are
scrutinized, you know, by our lender/investor and the state.
They have some Fair Housing regulations. So they're
not -- they cannot be displaced, put it that way.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: But we will catch if
somebody qualifies and signed a one-year lease and then all
of a sudden they got a new job at Arthrex and they're
making six figures, then they wouldn't qualify to be there
and then they wouldn't be able -- I mean, you have measures
in place to catch that, correct?
MR. SHEAR: Well, surprisingly, because of Fair
Housing, if that situation were to occur, we still could not
displace them.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, that --
MR. SHEAR: That's subject to a different payment
schedule, rent schedule --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Okay.
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MR. SHEAR: -- but we could not displace them, so
this is --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Because, I
mean, I know you've got hundreds on the waitlist. So my
question is, when are we ever going to get to those people?
And the only way you could get to them is if somebody
moved out. You know, maybe they moved and took a job
somewhere else, you know, on something else in between.
Because people that are on the waitlist have sent -- because
this is in my district -- have sent me a note and said, you
know, I'm on the waitlist, but I don't think -- you know, it's a
joke. I'm number 417, and there's 82 units, so...
MR. SHEAR: Yeah. I mean, that's the unfortunate
situation in this county is that the demand just greatly
out -- exceeds the supply.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. I like how
you talked about lessons learned. So I guess the question I
was going to end with was when I spoke with the county
staff -- and they spoke about that complex on Santa Barbara,
and, you know, we finally got to the finish line, but there
was a lot of hurdles, a lot of lessons learned. You have
some projects in the pipeline coming up.
Can you give us the short version of some of the
lessons learned? Because the thing that struck me is the
timeline to get to the finish line seemed incredibly long.
And I know some of it is the state or funding and things that
maybe are beyond your control. But I guess where I'm
looking for the super short answer is, if there's anything here
at the county that was slower than it could have been -- and
not because people are negligent. But like you said, we all
learn lessons. You know, these are really great projects.
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I don't think any of us want to artificially accelerate
anything. You know, we want things -- we want to
measure twice and cut once and make sure we're doing
things smartly. But, boy, you know, it's like, to get to the
end result, it seemed like we were building the Empire State
Building.
What, if anything -- just to have us put in our back
pockets -- are the things that slowed down the previous
processes the most? And are we overcoming them? And
are some of those in-house here? You know, there's only so
much we can do at Tallahassee or funding or whatever, you
know, is in your tool bag. But what can you tell us to
educate us more on these projects coming up and how they'll
be better, faster, cheaper, smarter, whatever the things are?
MR. SHEAR: That's all the intention, to improve
upon all of those. And I think the reality of the Bembridge
parcel is that we did have to go through a PUD amendment.
That did have to go in front of public hearing, and that
took -- you know, Cormac probably knows exactly -- but I
would say that was a six- to nine-month process in and of
itself. We're running concurrent tracts on that.
That does not occur here. We are subject to
administrative approval. We do not need to go through any
rezoning process and through that political process of public
hearings. So I think that, in and of itself, expedites the
timeline of getting through the design, entitlements, and
permitting.
Another big lesson we've learned is local
subcontractors are of critical importance, and trying to bring
in general contractor or subcontractors who are out of the
market don't have the labor here, don't have the supply chain
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here really is a critical factor to ensuring the biggest risk we
have, which is construction, construction risk. We know
there's demand. We lock in our financing. Construction
risk is our biggest risk.
And I think that's where we'll be working, you know, as
well with more of a local team that can really address it.
And, you know, the focus is definitely more on execution
than on cost at this point.
You know, the lesson learned in general for me over
my career is the cheapest cost definitely doesn't deliver the
best result all the time. So, you know, we're going to be
more cognizant of that, and I think this funding allows us to
be more cognizant of that because now we're not so subject
to the pressure of the economics. Being able to deliver a
high-quality product and use highly qualified contractors
and subs is going to be a big solution and a big help for us.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. Perfect.
Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Two
questions. Number one, compatibility with the area.
Driving down 951 there, I'm not remembering seven stories
being in close proximity. I know there are some towers
down close to the airport. How is this -- how is this
proposition with regard to that?
MR. SHEAR: I'll just answer quickly. And if
Mr. French wants to speak, I'm [sic] more than welcome to.
The reason we're okay from a development perspective
with the height, there is a development -- the Live Local
Act, just to kind of answer the question first, is about
one -- I think it's one mile from the site, the highest building.
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I don't know the exact building that referenced that has been
vetted with your planning and zoning administrative staff,
and that was the verification we received back from them
that that was -- the height limitation was the effectively
75 feet, which gives us a maximum of seven stories.
From our development perspective, we are putting this
on a primary frontage on Collier Boulevard. It has the
presence -- this is not located within a single-family
neighborhood. There are -- there's the mobile home park,
just an older mobile park that's been there, and there are
some town homes in -- a few parcels over. But overall,
given that it's the frontage, that's where we got comfortable
with the height, and we don't think that it necessarily clashes
with -- with the overall massing of the community because
of its location on that primary frontage.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure. I'll let staff
speak. But don't go -- well, you can go ahead. Yes, okay.
That's fine.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioner. For the
record, Jamie French.
Your Fiddler's Creek PUD -- so this is literally right
next door. So you're within -- even if there is -- the glitch
bill comes out with Live Local, they're still going to meet
the site distance, and they're built or approved to 75 feet.
So we can apply that same height limitation there as
Fiddler's Creek under Live Local.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Very good.
And then my other question for you, Chris -- and you
mentioned the Collier County Land Trust as a partner in
another development that you're doing over behind
Hacienda, and then you're partnering with them again. I
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wanted -- I want to be very clear that the -- this is not Collier
County's land trust that you're partnering with. This is a
separate not-for-profit organization. And what's your
rationale for utilizing them as an interim step between the
county's ownership of this property and yours?
MR. SHEAR: Sure. And it's not a necessity, I'll start
out with that. It is something that we think does add value
because it gives you some stewardship of these lands over
time to be able to ensure that the affordability is there. It
also provides us with some incentives under the Live Local
Act. The land value would be exempt from ad valorem
taxes. The building would still be taxed as it's currently
drafted. So there is some incentive there to take a little
relief off of the operating expenses, which allows us to
borrow more debt and build a better project, et cetera.
So there was the benefit on that end as well as what
we've heard and understood the land trust is -- intention is to
work with the county to ultimately -- albeit separate entity,
to be a steward of various county resources and programs
that they're administering to ensure, you know, affordability,
to ensure the quality of the product, et cetera. But, again,
it's not an absolute necessity. It's something we thought
would add some value to the public.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, again, I'm not
objecting to it particularly, but I think it's very important to
qualify the fact that that's not -- that's not a county entity.
That's a separate third party that's in between the county and
you.
And so you may perceive that as a value. I'm not
seeing that as a need. We can certainly strike a
deal -- we're obviously quite comfortable in working with
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you. And I'm not uncomfortable in working with the
Collier County Land Trust. It's just that that's a separate
organization, completely separate organization, and where
do they fit and why do they fit in this transaction between us
and you?
MR. SHEAR: And just to put a pin in it, we are not
here today asking for the land trust to be directly involved.
Our request is to enter into a lease with the county. If the
county and staff and we want to bring this back or if we
want to discuss that if that's an administrative approval, if
there want so to be that -- if there needs to be that extra
conduit for any reason or if that's the desire of the county,
we can discuss it. But we're not here asking for that today.
So there's no -- there's no requirement on our end.
There's no necessity on your end. And I think that's crystal
clear. So the land trust was an idea that we thought may
add some value, and we're open to it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Got it. We're
not -- I'm not closed to it. I want to say that out loud. I'm
not saying there's anything negative with regard to it. It just
needs to be delineated, distinguished as a separate
organization. And I want to hear from our staff whenever
the developer agreement comes back, because I think today
we're just voting on the approval of the acquisition utilizing
the sales tax money. Then there's going to be a
development agreement come back where there will be
specifics with regard to the percentages of AMI, how many
units, so on.
The proposition here is the proposition, but there will
actually be a developer agreement. You already heard that
I want to see flexibility in those -- in those numbers with
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regard to affordability with pragmatism and a matrix to be
able to allow you that opportunity to move based upon what
the needs, in fact, are, and then I'll get a report from staff as
to the value for the county having the land trust -- the Collier
County Land Trust be an interim in between.
MR. SHEAR: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So with that -- you
want to make the motion for approval, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We have comments.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Unless you've got
some comments.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yeah, we have two more, three
more.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Just for a little bit of education for me, the land cost in
this particular project is about 23,000 -- $24,000 per unit.
Typically, what type of per-unit land cost can you afford for
these types of projects? And I know it's a lot of
interest -- you know, there are a lot of things that go into
that, but just, in general, what are you looking for?
MR. SHEAR: I will say the value -- anything under
$30,000 is a huge value in this county. As you know, land
is limited, but zoned land that you can actually build an
apartment development on is extremely limited and largely
just to the Planned Unit Developments that are out there,
and most of those Planned Unit Developments are entitled
by the developer who's intending to actually develop them.
So as we've been in this county for four years and
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looking at every corner of it, one of the biggest challenges is
finding land that is well suited for multifamily housing that
we can afford and that is within one of these basis boost
areas that I'd mentioned. So we feel extremely lucky to
have found this site that kind of checks all those boxes, and
the land value itself is very underwriteable from a financing
perspective. You know, it depends on the other sources of
funding, but, you know, we would probably top out on our
programs around $40,000 a unit, so we still have some good
value here.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, hopefully
there are other locations that will meet those criteria. I will
say that this is exactly the type of project that was
contemplated when we put that line item in the one-cent
sales tax to create that $20 million fund. And if there are
other developers listening, hopefully there are other
developers in other properties that will meet these criteria.
But I want to thank you. This is a really incredible
project. With all the projects that you're developing, I think
it comes out to 602 units altogether, if I -- I may not have
added it -- added that up correctly, but in that range, and that
puts a dent into the need, and hopefully we'll have more
projects like that.
And whoever makes the motion, I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, quit.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
My questions are more just kind of a self-education to
myself because, you know, from my understanding of the
Live Local Act and, you know, from what I was told, you
know, when it was going through the state and finally got
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passed and the governor signed it last March -- and I'm not
against this. I don't want you to take these questions, you
know, in any -- I should be because you cut me out of the
picture in the ribbon cutting; I saw that.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I don't remember
you there.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Evidently nobody's
going to remember me now, so...
But that being said, I thought the intent of the Live
Local Act was individuals -- or developers use their own
money to buy blighted, old, rundown commercial properties
that only have 50 percent occupancy and invest that money
and automatically get a magic wand waved and say, hey, it's
residential now. Build up to as high as the closest building,
you know, an air mile away and this and that, not so much a
partnership of the people's money being used to buy the
property and then intermixing the two, you know.
Just clarify this for me, or maybe staff can help me.
But I'm just trying to get a grip on it, because I didn't think
that was the intent of the Live Local Act.
MR. SHEAR: I think that's one of the scenarios that
was thrown out there, analogy when Live Local was on the
table in front of the committees originally. Like, we have
this. And at that time when this was thought of, it was
the -- I think the state was in a different place with COVID
still, when this kind of came out of that, and we saw
occupancies in retail spaces drop. So that was one of the
catalysts, seeing that market change that I think brought the
Live Local Act.
The Live Local Act is much more comprehensive than
that. It provided -- it provides a number of incentives,
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preemptions, different funding sources, hometown heroes,
for instance, a mortgage program. There's a lot of things
that got put into that bill with a more comprehensive effort
to stimulate affordable and workforce housing. That is one
scenario, and we -- unfortunately, we've looked around for
older commercial buildings, and your occupancies are very
strong here still.
So we never found the opportunity, but that was one of
those "here's what we're thinking about, this could help," but
it certainly isn't limited to that.
So there's a lot of ways to make these deals work, and
the reality of the other headwinds that we're facing is that it
often takes partnership. It takes collaboration. It takes
work with local governments. It takes work with the state.
It takes work with foundations in some cases. It takes work
with operating partners. There's really -- this business is
not your traditional market-rate development: You find
your lender, you find your investor, you build your product,
and you pay some waterfall of returns.
This program is really set up for partnerships. It is a
public partnership itself. This is a federal credit
administered by the state. You've got the state entity, who
we're in agreements with for -- we're 50 years on those
land-use restriction agreements that we enter into in
consideration for their gap funding or for their tax credits.
Unfortunately, that's not enough to get it done these
days. You do have to -- you do have to commingle sources
of funding, and it's a tough thing to do.
I think, you know, this is kind of the labor of love is
that it's not the easiest business, but it is a really feel-good
business, and it is a business that certainly has no shortage
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of demand. So I don't know if that answered your question
fully, but the idea is to -- you know, public/private
partnership through Live Local. Live Local provides one
piece, but it's not necessarily enough to make deals happen.
And you'll see that over time, that just because the
legislation is in place, it doesn't necessarily mean there's
going to be a flood of development as a result of that.
There's a lot of other factors and variables that all have to
align right for us to be able to make these things happen.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So, Chris, I'll sum up with this
before we finish up with the motion. I do have a question
and concern; it's both the same.
I can see all of the stars aligning, which excites me. I
love this. But one thing -- how long did it take you to
complete the Santa Barbara project?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Seven years.
MR. SHEAR: Twenty months.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, yeah, but from
start to finish. That might have been the construction. But
I think Chris Hall's -- Commissioner Hall's saying same
thing I am. Is like, you know, from conception, you know,
to when we cut the ribbon.
MR. SHEAR: The time I was sitting here -- from the
time I was sitting here originally in front of many of you, a
couple different faces here, I think that was June or July of
2019.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So we had COVID. We had
some issues.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It wasn't seven
years. It was four.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: How long has it taken you from
the very get-go for the Allegro and the Cadenza project?
MR. SHEAR: Those came together without -- without
some of the challenges we had on Bembridge. There wasn't
a new entitlement. We didn't need to amend a PUD, et
cetera, so those came together much faster. Putting me on
the spot on the dates, but those -- both of those projects
started -- we initially applied for funding, which is really the
trigger. You know, it's hard to spend all those dollars and
make that investment until we got an idea --
CHAIRMAN HALL: Gotcha.
MR. SHEAR: -- that we're intent or confident enough
that we're going to have the funding to go forward on it. So
those are probably two-and-a-half years in the making, and
we have both of them scheduled to deliver units for
occupancy in the third and fourth quarter, respectively, of
this year.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. Fair.
MR. SHEAR: Or, actually, sorry. The first one's
coming online next quarter, so...
CHAIRMAN HALL: So I guess my concern was on
the application you had listed five years for completion, and
that didn't really make me warm and fuzzy, because this is a
need that we have sooner than later. And I didn't know if
we could -- I don't know who -- if this is for Cormac or the
County Attorney, but are we able to approve the surtax
funding with an understanding that we're going to do this
faster than five years with a firm commitment? Just to
make me feel better.
MR. KLATZKOW: You could do that if you want. I
don't know how comfortable they're going to be.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: I'm just asking.
MR. SHEAR: You know, it's not uncommon to have
conditions, because you want to see progress. You're tying
up funds that, you know, if we don't move forward,
rightfully so, you want to dedicate to another project, and
that's why shovel-readiness is often a factor in all of this,
and I think that comes with a competent developer who's
done their due diligence to be able to move that forward
through a convoluted timeline and critical path.
So in this case, it would not be -- it would not be
unusual. We would be open to putting some term on it
whereby if we don't -- we don't close financing, which
means we put a shovel in the ground, by a certain period in
time, that we would have to come back in front of the Board
to extend that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I guess my question is, can we
do that now, or do we need the development agreement to --
MR. KLATZKOW: They're going to be bringing
forward a developer agreement. I think that would be the
opportune time to raise the issue. Typically, we put
mileposts in these agreements, financing, what have you.
So I'm sure staff will consider that.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I bring it up, Chris. I'm not
looking to flush you by any means. I'm looking to get some
teachers and some firefighters in those apartments as fast as
we can, so that's why I brought it up.
So do we have a motion?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You've got a
motion. I make the motion to approve. I mean, we have a
lot of homework assignments buried in it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Line jumper.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah, line jumper.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Line jumper.
MR. FRENCH: Commissioners, if it's the will of the
Board, before we bring back a developer agreement, we'll
ask them, you know, not to quote Commissioner LoCastro,
but we so appreciate when he says "use a sharp pencil,"
because I say that often, especially when they're applying for
permits. Nonetheless, we'll identify those considerations in
your lease agreement perhaps with some clawback
provisions that we've done before so there's some penalties
then if they don't hit their mark.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Good. Fair enough.
MR. McDOWELL: Just one more comment in terms
of timeline. We fully expect this to be much quicker than
the last number of projects. You know, this was -- as Chris
said, this was a very difficult time to build in. We had
supply chain issues, we had labor issues, and part of the
labor issues you were faced with is I think all of you read
the newspapers. This country has had a record number of
market-rate apartment communities built over the last
number of years. I mean, it's astounding. Like, I think
there are 600,000 units that are going to be completed this
year in the country, and that drained the workforce. And so
we, quite frankly, had labor problems with some of the subs,
and that really delayed us.
And the economics of building an apartment
community market rate today is if you don't have
everything -- you can't put a shovel in the ground and make
something pencil today. Jamie will probably back me up
on that one. It just doesn't work. And so that's all going to
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stop. And we don't believe we're going to have the labor
problems that we had before, and we've learned our lessons
related to subs and contractors, et cetera, and we've already
got a plan in place to make this much quicker.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great. Thank you, Pat.
So we have a motion and a second. All in favor, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moving forward.
MR. SHEAR: Thank you.
Item #11C
RECOMMENDATION TO WAIVE THE NIGHTTIME HEARING
REQUIREMENT AND HEAR A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
AMENDMENT REGARDING FOOD TRUCKS AND FOOD
TRUCK PARKS AT TWO REGULARLY SCHEDULED
DAYTIME BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONER MEETINGS
AND APPROVE A REQUEST TO ADVERTISE THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT. (ALL DISTRICTS)
MOTION TO APPROVE WITH MODIFICATIONS BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL - APPROVED – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 16A7, now Item 11C. This is a recommendation to
waive the nighttime hearing requirement and hear a Land
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Development Code amendment regarding food trucks and
food truck parks at two regularly scheduled daytime Board
of County Commissioners meetings and approve a request to
advertise Land Development Code amendment.
This is being brought to the agenda at Commissioner
Saunders' request, and Mr. Mike Bosi, your Director of
Planning and Zoning, is here to answer questions or present.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I
can be very quick. Obviously, food truck parks can have a
rather significant impact on a community. And I know that
there was a public hearing and I guess a neighborhood
information meeting.
And my question is for the Board, because this can be
such an impactful type of a project, should we have at least
one nighttime hearing? I'm not a fan of nighttime hearings
even though we've got one this evening. But I'm just
wondering, in terms of this particular issue whether or not
that should be given some consideration. I'm okay with
having both hearings during the day, but I wanted to at least
have a little bit of discussion as to whether we should open
this up a little bit more. So that's my question.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. Thank you,
Chairman.
I like the idea of at least testing it, you know. We're
hearing from a lot of citizens who they would like to see this
meeting in the evening, which is not realistic. You know,
we get those emails all the time. You know, we're all at
work and we can't participate. And it's like, okay, we're at
work, too, and this is where our work happens.
You know, if you remember back to the conversation
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of the Isles of Capri food truck park, and then we talked a bit
about Celebration Park, I think when it comes to the food
trucks, it's still a really new and unique, you know, type of
thing that we don't have our arms fully around. So one of
the things I've said generically is night, day, evening,
morning, whenever, I'm all for, you know, not squelching
citizen comment or flushing out as much back -- feedback as
we can get.
So it doesn't mean we're passing something that says
from here on out in perpetuity we'll have all nighttime
meetings, but I didn't know if there was something in the
middle that showed we were trying to be positive, and then
if it didn't have a positive result, then, okay, we tried it.
And so -- I don't know. That was just my initial thought. I
might not know every single detail that you're trying to kind
of cover, but my initial thought was it doesn't hurt, and we
see what happens, but...
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I agree.
I mean, if it's -- I think in this digital age that we have with
hybrid meetings -- I know we all do town halls and have
them with multiple, multiple options for folks to attend.
You know, I'm not opposed to having an evening meeting,
at least one of these hearings in the evening, but I'm -- you
know, if -- on the same token, I don't really see the need for
it either. It's conducting business.
And I take -- I know myself, and I know most of us do
as well -- personally, I take emails and phone calls and
comments from people whether they're standing at the
podium and wearing a red shirt -- in the room as most
important as the folks that are standing at the podium and
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wearing a red shirt [sic].
So, I mean, what was your intent, Commissioner
Saunders? I mean, I think the intent was to waive the
hearings, the nighttime hearings, and hear these -- hear these
food truck amendments during the day.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, that's what
the request is of staff, and I understand it, and there was a
public hearing in the evening on this early on. But people
don't really get energized over issues until they see
something in the paper or they know something's coming up
for us to vote on.
Now, this is not site specific, and so it may not generate
any interest, but if there was a food truck park, for example,
going into Isle of Capri, as an example, the one we had,
there would be tremendous interest in that because it's site
specific.
So there may not even be anybody that would show up
for this. But these are very controversial, and that's just a
thought.
But as I said, I have no issues with having two daytime
hearings, but I just thought it was worth a discussion on an
issue like this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: When I was
reviewing this, I was -- this is more of an adoption of the
Land Development Code criterium to -- because the way I
understand it, we're going to be hearing every single one of
these. It's going to become a conditional use when one of
these proposed already existent zoning classifications
qualifies for a food truck park. That's still not going to be a
by-right process. They still have to come to us, and that
would be -- those would be the ones that I would prefer,
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when the site-specific ones are coming to us, that maybe we
move those to a nighttime hearing. But this one is -- this is
just Land Development Code adjustments to facilitate those
site-specific and move them to -- my understanding is move
them to a conditional-use process.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, that
convinces me that we don't need to have a night hearing on
this as long as we are flexible to having a night hearing
when an application comes before us.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm looking at him
making sure he's shaking his head positively, because I don't
want to misquote what his intent is.
MR. BOSI: And, Mike Bosi, zoning director.
As it's proposed, there's not a requirement. And the
conditional use is triggered when you have any proposed
outdoor amplified sound or alcohol being associated with
these food trucks. One food truck at a commercial center
that doesn't have amplified sound or alcohol does not require
a Board approval. That could be straight -- a Site
Development Plan amendment. But it's if they have alcohol
involved or if they have alcohol and it is amplified sound,
those are the ones that require conditional uses.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, what I was
looking at was there's two things here. It's regarding food
trucks and food truck parks, and it was the food truck
parks --
MR. BOSI: Parks.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- that's got my
attention. We certainly don't need a nighttime hearing on
an application for putting a food truck at a bazaar, at a park,
or something like that. But if we're going to develop a food
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truck park similar to what was discussed on Isles of Capri,
then I think something like that probably should come back
at night.
So I'll make the motion to approve waiving the
nighttime hearing for this purpose. But if we do have a
food truck park -- it's not part of the motion. But if we do
have a food truck park, I think consideration should be given
to having something like that in the evening.
MR. BOSI: And staff can modify the proposed
language to put verbiage that we will poll the Board of
County Commissioners as to whether you would like to see
that conditional-use hearing moved to a nighttime hearing.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That would be
perfect.
MR. BOSI: We can put that within the proposed
ordinance. We'll make some modifications.
Just to let you know, we did have a nighttime hearing
with the Planning Commission on the 7th of December.
There were no public who attended. And I think you're
right, unless it's a site-specific location, it's hard to get the
public to get excited about the proposal of an LDC
amendment.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I'll make that
motion to approve this with the understanding that if there is
a food truck park, that the Board will be presented with the
opportunity to have a night hearing if the Board so chooses
at that time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
Yeah, I mean, I was on the same lines with
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Commissioner McDaniel on the way I looked at this. And
now Mr. Bosi's kind of confirmed it, that, you know, if it's
specific and we're looking at a particular park and somebody
wants to develop -- designate their food trucks -- and, I
mean, you could see we've already exercised our
time-certain. We're going to do that today at 5 o'clock.
And I think, you know, we get the temperature of our
constituents on a particular item like this, if there is a food
truck, that we're going to hear it, and, you know, a park,
we're going to hear it in the future regardless, that, you
know, we can always exercise the time-certain, you know,
and not have to create a whole, you know, 'nother ordinance
or something just on those lines. So I feel comfortable with
the motion the way it is, so I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So just to follow up my
comments, you know, I don't want to get into the habit of
every hot issue that comes up that we need to feel obligated
to do it in the evening meeting.
I know, like Commissioner McDaniel, I've got the best
interest of my constituents. It may not be what I personally
want to do, but I'm going to back them. That's what they
elected me to do.
And whether they're in the room at 7 o'clock at night or
whether they're -- they've made their emails plain, their
phone calls plain, I don't take any -- no one's more important
here than they are on my email. And I want to say that
because I don't mind doing -- I'm not a -- let's see. I'm not
opposed to making the extra effort, but I don't want to get
into the habit of feeling like we need to pacify people that
just can make it in the evenings when they have every ample
opportunity to let us know and to communicate in times
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advanced.
So with that comment, we have a motion and we have a
second to waive this. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that is the end of
our regular agenda items except for public comment on
general topics not on the current or future agenda that
weren't addressed previously. It may be something -- do we
have one now?
MR. MILLER: Well, that's just it. I have a Zoom
person that was mislabeled. Actually, we probably should
have heard them at 7. With your indulgence, can we hear
them now?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Jackie Keay is joining us on Zoom.
Jackie, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. I
know you're there, Jackie. There you go. You have three
minutes.
MS. KEAY: Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, we can.
MS. KEAY: Oh, I'm here for sure.
MR. MILLER: Go ahead, Jackie.
MS. KEAY: So good afternoon. My name is Jackie
Keay. I will be talking about religious hypocrisy today.
In the parable of the four soils, Mark 4:14, Jesus
reveals how four groups of people respond to the truth of
God's word.
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The first three groups of people either don't listen, the
word does not take root in their hearts, or the pleasure of the
world is more important than following Christ.
The fourth group of people are the good soil. These
are true disciples who are willing to obey, suffer, and give
up everything for Christ. In essence, Jesus is telling us that
most people who say they are Christians, i.e., religious
hypocrites who reject God, do not have a relationship with
him.
With the social and political climate, how can you tell
the difference between the true disciples of Christ and the
religious hypocrites?
Let's look at Jesus' qualities to see how they compare to
Satan's, which should tell people whose kingdom they are
aligned with. So for Jesus, we have love, kind, protector,
humility, forgiveness, empathy, compassion, joyful,
self-control, tolerance, selfless, truth, servant, peaceful. He
died for our sins, and he lives out the scriptures.
And then we have Satan: Evil, toxic, bully, delusional,
hate, no empathy, selfish, two-faced, seeks power and
control, and the seven deadly sins of greed, lust, pride, envy,
gluttony, wrath, sloth. He tempts us to sin, and he quotes
and weaponizes scripture.
Jesus also dealt with religious hypocrites. In John
8:44, he told the Pharisees they were like their father, the
devil, who was a murderer, liar, and father of lies. The
current religious hypocrites are blasting in the name of Jesus
Christ to garner votes, to justify lies, evil, racism, and
homophobia. Like the Pharisees, they are possessed by the
same devils. They have weaponized Jesus/God and are
attacking the very people he wants to have a relationship
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with.
They are lying about Jesus, waging war against and
causing damage to his kingdom. They have chosen to
become God's enemy. At the appointed time, God will
defend his kingdom against such Satanic attacks. Those are
end time -- these are end time confirmations.
Lastly, Jesus loves us very much unconditionally, and
to say to people out there, I love you all, too, and love is the
greatest power that can change any person's heart and soul.
So thank you all very much. That is it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner, with that, it leaves
staff and commission general communications. It would be
your pleasure whether you want to take these when we
conclude the 5 p.m. time-certain or if you would like to
handle these now.
CHAIRMAN HALL: What do you think?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm down with doing
them now and getting them out of the way.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I'm down with doing them now
to get them out of the way, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Commissioner
Saunders said something about pizza tonight, so I'm going to
want to get to that.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Well, I'll start. I only
have one item for you, and it's just to advise you that there's
a request from the City of Marco Island for some work on
Tigertail Beach and Sand Dollar Island for tilling and raking
at the north end, so -- and it is time sensitive due to the
permitting. So we will be out there working, but the cost
will be reimbursed by the City of Marco Island. And if we
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need to take any further action as an after-the-fact, we'll
bring that back to you-all. But just wanted to advise you
that that would be happening.
Mr. Rodriguez.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: All good. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: All good. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Chair.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, I have -- thank
you, Mr. Chair.
I have two. The first of which I'd like to get a head
nod on suggesting that we give direction to our staff to
prepare GMP and LDC amendments, whichever is requisite,
to better manage the charter school implementation in
Golden Gate Estates, and I'd like to give direction to staff to
start that process. I want to move those charter schools
over to the conditional-use process and not by right as they
have been being treated so far.
And so with -- if it meets with your consent, I'd like
to -- I'd like for us to give direction for that process to be
begun. We'll certainly see all those things. It will all come
back to us, but I need -- I need to have your concurrence to
give that direction.
CHAIRMAN HALL: No, I like that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I like it, too, and I
think as part of that we would need some information from
the County Attorney as to what authority we do have as part
of that proposal.
MR. KLATZKOW: We'll work with staff.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In perpetuity.
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You took my line.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then,
secondarily, we had given previous instruction with regard
to the exotic removal ordinance that we have, and it's very
cumbersome. I'd like an abeyance of those rules interimly
here until March when that comes back before us so that we
can, in fact, move forward with --
CHAIRMAN HALL: So I had a conversation
yesterday with staff, and I was aggravated why it took so
long.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So what we're going to do is put
stay on the action.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the abeyance
of the rules.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. I didn't understand that.
I'm from Texas.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So we're going to nip that for
the time being until we can come back and make it official.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's correct. So
those are the two items that I had, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Do we need a vote
of the Board to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You know, we got
positive head nods to do that if, in fact, you guys are -- if
you folks are in favor of that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But do we need a
vote of the Board to give that direction? Because you're
putting a pause on it now until we fix that problem. You
don't need a motion to do that?
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MS. COOK: Correct. With your decision today, we
will stop those inspections until we bring the ordinance
changes back to you in March.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, Mr. County
Attorney, do we need to have a formal motion so that it
becomes a decision of the Board? If not, that's fine. I
just --
MR. KLATZKOW: I think it's more prudent to have a
motion so --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- nobody down the line can
question it.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Moved. I second it. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Ms. Patterson
brought this up about Marco and Tigertail and Hideaway,
and, boy, the misinformation on -- in my district about why
we were and weren't raking beaches and all that -- I'll just
give you the short version. I mean, when environmental
groups come down and say, you know, you have a grassy,
patchy area on your beach and you can't rake it because
birds are feeding there, we can't do it just because we got
100 emails and people who, you know, want us to just do it
anyway.
But my shout-out is really to Trinity Scott, Coastal
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Zone Management, all the county staff that were working
with me. We were getting very, very colorful emails from
citizens. So impressed with the professionalism of Andy
Miller from Coastal Zone Management and his staff and all
of us who are replying back to citizens trying to separate
rumor from fact. We're now out there raking because the
birds are no longer feeding and nesting. But it wasn't
negligence. We weren't stupid. We weren't leaving algae
and grass on the beach, and we didn't care about it. But we
could have easily popped off very quickly and, you know,
got back to citizens in a very colorful way. You know,
maybe I did a little bit, but the staff didn't.
So thank you. You all -- I guess, from what I
understand, we're out there now because we've gotten all of
the permits and approvals from the state and from these
environmental agencies that we were squeezing every day.
And so, you know, thank you for that effort, and I know the
citizens that understand the moving parts appreciate it.
That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
Well, I did learn something today that in perpetuity
means 3-2 or 99 years. I saw that several times in a few of
our different items today. So -- I didn't know that, but now
I do.
The other thing, back to Conservation Collier, I had a
conversation with the manager's staff and the manager
herself, and I know we've been looking at ways to save
money, pinch here, cut here -- you know, cut here. And I
know we're actually looking at possible -- you know, the
zero-based budgeting here in our future, near future.
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You know, and I was asking questions about the
maintenance side of the Conservation Collier, and come to
find out -- I didn't under- -- I didn't realize, but we have
certain staff that is dedicated only to the maintenance of
these properties that are within that program.
And I know initially when we purchase a property, that
the initial buying of it and the initial clearing of it and the
exotics and the things that get it to the point where it's -- you
know, it's acceptable for their standard, that's the biggest hit,
but a lot of times, you know, some of these people in the
staff, I don't know if they're just doing busy work from time
to time or, you know, or this is something we can look at to
where we're -- you know, I know we have the -- we just
created the task force out in the Estates for our stormwater
team to do cleanup and, you know, clean swales and things
of that nature.
You know, maybe we could possibly join, you know,
these teams so when there's downtime in the Conservation
Collier maintenance side of it, that they can be working
alongside with, you know, Trinity's group with some of
these other projects that they're just as important, you know,
to us and we're kind of like, you know, sharing the cost and
we're not dumping a whole lot of money or bringing in a
subcontractor for some things that the team could possibly
do, you know, with equipment and that for the conservation
properties.
So maybe cutting some -- because we just learned
today in that report that, you know, we're going to save
$2 million up to almost $2.4 million in doing a lot of
in-house inspections on our future projects. You know, this
also could be something we can look at and say, you know,
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maybe we could share the manpower in the future. So I just
wanted to have that conversation maybe in the future.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I hope it's -- I hope
it's common business practice if we have silos going on
internally departmentally, that that siloing stops. We're all
one.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Big 'ole team.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't think I have
anything to add other than I look forward to seeing
everybody at 5 o'clock.
CHAIRMAN HALL: I don't have anything.
So with that, we will recess and be back at 5:00.
(A recess was had from 12:13 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Well, good afternoon. Welcome to Phase B of today's
meeting.
So we have a big agenda. We're going to cover a lot
this afternoon. And if you have not silenced your cell
phone, now is the time to do that because it will go off.
That's Murphy's Law.
And then as a -- there's 20 -- there's about 30 registered
speakers; 26 here and four on Zoom so far. So I just want
to remind you that we're very interested in hearing what you
have to say, pretty much understand why you're here, to
support the moratorium, but there's not 30 different ways of
saying you like it. So if somebody says the same thing that
you plan on saying, you're just as effective with us, maybe
even more, by saying "I agree exactly what that speaker
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said" and just stand up and let it be known that that's why
you're here.
But everybody has three minutes, and the protocol is
when the yellow light goes off, that's the 30-second mark,
and when the red light goes off, that's when you land the
plane. Land it very promptly right there so that I don't have
to interrupt you and say "thank you."
So with that, Ms. Patterson.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
One housekeeping matter that I wanted to remind
everybody, because I'm afraid I'll forget later, we do have a
workshop on February 6th here in the chambers regarding
the strategy plan, the AUIR, and the upcoming budget
process.
Item #10A
RECOMMENDATION TO DIRECT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY
TO ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK TO THE BOARD AN
ORDINANCE THAT WILL IMPLEMENT A TWELVE-MONTH
MORATORIUM ON PRIVATELY-INITIATED GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN AMENDMENT APPLICATIONS FOR
PROPERTIES LOCATED ADJACENT TO
(1) IMMOKALEE ROAD FROM I-75 EAST TO OIL WELL
ROAD, AND (2) VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD FROM I-75
EAST TO ITS END, WHILE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN
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AMENDMENTS ARE VETTED WITH THE PUBLIC AND
ADVISORY BOARDS. (ALL DISTRICTS) - MOTION TO
DIRECT CAO TO ADVERTISE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR A
MORATORIUM AND BRING BACK TO THE BOARD BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; NO SECOND – MOTION
FAILED; MOTION THAT THE BOARD IS COMMITTING THE
FUNDING FOR PROJECTS OUTLINED BY TRINITY SCOTT,
AND DIRECT STAFF TO WORK WITH DOT TO ADVANCE
THOSE PROJECTS BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED –
5/0
Okay. But that brings us now for the item for this
afternoon. This is Item 10A at 5 o'clock time-certain. This
is a recommendation to direct the County Attorney to
advertise and bring back to the Board an ordinance that will
implement a 12-month moratorium on privately initiated
Growth Management Plan amendment applications for
properties located adjacent to, one, Immokalee Road from
I-75 east to Oil Well Road, and, two, Vanderbilt Beach
Road from I-75 east to its end while Growth Management
Plan amendments are vetted with the public and advisory
boards.
This item was brought to the agenda by Commissioner
Saunders, and I'll turn it over to you-all to begin, and then
we have staff.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Go ahead, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
First I want to thank the county commission for
scheduling this public hearing. We discussed this back, I
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think, on December 12th, and the Board did not have to
continue this. The Board could have said, no, we're not
going to continue this hearing. But I want to thank the
Board for doing that because it -- obviously, there's a lot of
interest in this issue.
I've actually received 455 emails in support of this, and
I've received zero in opposition to it. But that's not -- that's
not how decisions are made. Decisions aren't made based
on the numbers of pros and cons in terms of emails.
I want to say that probably the single most heard of
issue, the issue that I hear the most of from constituents is
problems with traffic. We have great law enforcement.
We have great municipal services, water, sewer, garbage
collection. I almost never get any complaints except for,
perhaps, this past Sunday on some water issues, but almost
never get any complaints about municipal services and
things of that nature, but traffic is on everybody's mind.
And so, again, I want to thank the Board for taking the
time -- because this will take a little bit of time -- to hear
from the public.
Tonight's focus is on Immokalee Road and Vanderbilt
Beach Road. We have traffic problems throughout the
county, but tonight we're really focusing on those two roads.
I have two objectives, Mr. Chairman and
Commissioners, tonight. The first objective is to discuss a
12-month moratorium, as was outlined by the County
Manager, on these two roadways from I-75 heading
eastward. For properties that are adjacent to those
roadways, I'd like to see a slowdown, if you will, or a pause
in comprehensive land-use changes and rezones of what is
really Estates-zoned residential property.
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Developers are coming in and buying residential lots,
and they're paying a fee for those residential lots that reflects
that it's zoned for residential, and then they're coming in and
asking for a comprehensive land-use change so that those
residential-zoned lots can then be put together and
developed into a commercial project or into a fairly
high-density residential project, condominium or rental
apartments.
And what we are, in effect, doing is on a case-by-case
basis, parcel by parcel, we're changing our Comp Plan, and I
think that for long-range planning, that's not the best way to
proceed. So first objective will be to have the Board
consider scheduling a public hearing on an ordinance to take
a pause on those types of applications.
Now, the second portion of this, and I think probably
just as important, if not more important, I've been working
with our transportation staff for the last two -- last month
and a half to try to come up with some solutions to some of
the traffic problems on these two roadways, something that
staff can implement immediately, and I'm going to give you
one example. Staff has already done the design work and
already has the right-of-way for what's called a diverging
diamond intersection at I-75 and Immokalee Road. Now,
by putting in that type of an intersection in that location will
have a tremendous positive impact on traffic on Immokalee
Road, but that project's not funded.
And as Trinity Scott will explain, the county's been in
this position before where we've had an intersection with the
interstate, and we have advance funded an improvement to
that intersection which ultimately results in the Florida
Department of Transportation reimbursing the county for
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that. The effect of it is we move a project up by literally
several years.
There are other projects that Ms. Scott is going to
outline that we can advance fund that are a whole lot less
expensive but will also have a positive impact.
And so the second portion of this is to direct staff -- I'm
going to ask the Board to direct staff to proceed with those
projects. I'm going to ask the Board to commit the funding
for that once we make that funding commitment, and we can
do that tonight. Staff has identified the sources of
these -- for these projects. Once we make that
commitment, then staff can go to the Florida Department of
Transportation and say, we have the funding available. We
want to move this project up. We want to start it right
away. And DOT -- Florida DOT's likely to at that point
include it in their I-75 project that's coming forward, the
Moving Florida Forward project. So to me that's an easy
thing. It's a $40 million price tag, but it's something that I
think this board could do and feel very good about.
As I said, I've received literally hundreds of folks that
are in support of a moratorium. That's important, but also
advance funding these projects, that's important as well.
And, Mr. Chairman, I think for the flow of business, I
think the best thing to do would be to have Trinity Scott
make her presentation on what we can do, how we can
advance some projects, and I think that might answer some
questions as well. But I do want to get in -- ultimately, get
into this issue of the moratorium as well. But I think this
portion of it is very timely and very important.
So, Mr. Chair, I would request that, if that's okay with
the Board.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: That will be fine.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
I just wanted to say, the reason I voted to have this
hearing was my hope is that discussion is more inclusive,
more dynamic, and more productive than just 30 people
coming to the podium saying yes or no to a moratorium.
There's -- the gentleman in the front row here said sort
of -- and I'll pick on him here for a second. He said to
Commissioner Saunders before the meeting started, wow, I
have a lot of ideas I want to discuss with you.
The reason I wanted to speak, and Trinity being
next -- will be a perfect segue. But as you're sitting there
thinking about what you want to say in your three minutes,
merely coming to the podium and going, yes, we need to
lock the gate of Collier County, which we hear a lot, you
know, traffic's crazy, you're overbuilding everything, you
know, you've torn down all these trees and you're turning
everything into Miami, I don't know that that's productive
for tonight and, actually, it's not realistic.
I said to my constituents, there's no such thing as
vacant land in Collier County. It's undeveloped land that's
owned by somebody, and then we do an awful lot that
citizens sometimes don't see behind the scenes and in front
of the scenes to work with contractors to skinny down a
project. When you drive by something, you're seeing the
final result, and that would be Draft 20. Draft 1 through 19
might have been argued in this very room.
So your three minutes goes by fast. I got 300 and
something emails as well just saying vote for Commissioner
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Saunders' moratorium. I'm hoping more dynamic
discussion comes out of this and we have more homework
assignments or things that are possibilities to look into in
this very specific part of the county that may or may not
benefit from a whole host of things that we possibly could
do.
And so I would just leave you with that thought. Your
three minutes will go by fast. I'm really hoping we hear a
lot of different things.
Commissioner Hall said it perfectly; there's not 30
different ways to say, I'm for the moratorium. I want to
hear the other 29 things so that our staff can digest that.
That's why I voted for this hearing.
And very impressed with the turnout. Thank you so
much for coming tonight and helping to add to our
knowledge base about some things that we can look into and
do for the betterment of the community. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Ms. Scott, the show is yours.
MS. SCOTT: Thank you. Good evening. For the
record, Trinity Scott, Transportation Management Services
department head.
The first couple slides I'm going to talk about are a
little bit about how we do transportation planning here in the
county. We have a large audience, and it's a good
opportunity just to kind of share what we do and what
you-all deal with because you work with us with different
hats on throughout the year on our transportation plans.
So first and foremost, this board sits on the
Metropolitan Planning Organization, which is a regional
transportation planning agency that is responsible for the
Long-Range Transportation Plan, and that Long-Range
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Transportation Plan is for Collier County as a whole. It
identifies the current transportation system. It forecasts the
transportation needs and the anticipated growth, and,
currently, we're looking out to 2045. And right now we're
actually in the process of updating that plan to 2050.
So we do look at, long range, how do we accommodate
the growth, and that plan is responsible to select financially
feasible projects to best meet our future demands.
So as part of that planning process, we use the county's
interactive growth model as well as the Future Land Use
Map to identify where we anticipate additional dwelling
units, and on this map, the additional dwelling units are in
those darker blue colors, so we anticipate a lot of that
growth to occur out east, as well as additional commercial
area, once again, out in the eastern part of the county.
But this plan marries up with your Collier Interactive
Growth Model. And we identify what we need. If money
were no object whatsoever, what can we do?
And then we ratchet that plan down to a cost-feasible
plan that's constrained by the anticipated revenues that are
going to come in based on gas tax, impact fees. We're very
successful in trying to get grants as well, so we also look at
that. The Long-Range Transportation Plan, we're required
to break that down into five-year increments, and those
five-year increments, when we do our long-range plan, it
just says, hey, you need to do all these improvements by
2045, but it doesn't really tell us when we have to do those
improvements.
So what do we use to identify that? We use the
Annual Update and Inventory Report, a report that this
board just saw back in December. In the Annual Update
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and Inventory Report, it provides us an assessment of the
state of the transportation network, a snapshot one time
throughout the year looking at our non-season peak-hour
peak directions.
We -- during that analysis, we look at -- we apply
growth factors to try to determine when a roadway may
exceed its capacity, and we utilize that information to not
only feed our Long-Range Transportation Plan to identify
what projects need to be done sooner, but also it feeds our
capital improvement program, which is that five-year
document that you're seeing as part of the AUIR that
ultimately rolls into the one-year budget.
The Annual Update and Inventory Report used to be
something that was legislatively required. It's no longer
legislatively required, but this board saw the value in that
document and has put it as part of your strategic plan to
utilize that as one of our planning tools. So that's one of
your Board priorities as part of that strategic plan.
So your strategic plan that Board of County
Commissioners works on feeds the AUIR and feeds our
Long-Range Transportation Plan, and they really do all
work together.
So with that being said, what have we been doing? I'm
going to say it was back in 20, probably, '18. I remember
Commissioner Saunders saying to me, great, we're doing
Vanderbilt Road extension. What else are you doing?
Kind of a similar conversation of what we had, and we
kicked off what we call the Immokalee Road corridor
congestion plan, which this board adopted in October of
2021, and the goal of that plan was we looked at Immokalee
Road from Livingston all the way over to Logan and said,
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okay, we know that with the increased growth that we have,
even with what we anticipate with Vanderbilt Beach Road
extension, through 2045 we still need some more
improvements to reduce congestion and improve safety.
That plan identified the following improvements: The
addition of a westbound right-turn lane to convert that to a
through lane, an overpass at Immokalee at Livingston Road,
and interchange improvements at I-75 to include a diverging
diamond interchange, and as part of that, we would also do
improvements to the Strand as well as the Northbrooke
intersections.
So that plan was complete. We identified
improvements that needed to be done. So what are we
doing now?
We've begun the largest and most expensive
transportation project, which is Vanderbilt Beach Road
extension. That project is anticipated to be completed in
September of 2025. We're just about -- just over a third of
the way there on the project. And it's progressing well.
That will be a new roadway alignment out to 16th Street
Northeast from Collier Boulevard. We have lots of other
projects that are included within our capital project plan, but
ones that are specific to this area are extending Vanderbilt
Beach Road from 16th Street out to Everglades Boulevard,
so giving just that additional route to be able to get in from
Golden Gate Estates.
We have funding programmed within our five-year
capital program for the Immokalee Road at Livingston
overpass; that's the design and the construction. We have
been able to obtain a grant through the Florida Department
of Transportation to put $10 million towards the Immokalee
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Road shoulder conversion of the right-turn lane to a right
through lane from Livingston to Logan Boulevard, and we
also have within our five-year program, this was a sales
surtax funded project, the Immokalee Road at Randall
Boulevard intersection improvements, including widening
Randall Boulevard back to 8th.
In addition, since our last meeting, Commissioner
Saunders and I have had a few conversations where he said,
what else can you do? So here's a few things that we've
come up with. We really went back and brainstormed. A
few meetings back we talked about the Vanderbilt Beach
Road at Logan Boulevard intersection improvements. And
as part of those intersection improvements, we had gone out
to bid, and the bids came in higher than our budgeted
amount, and so we had plans to put the project on hold
perhaps until our next budget year.
We had already -- we have already rejected those bids.
But what we will do is we are going to go back out to bid
and rebid this project, hoping that we'll have a better bidding
environment to be able to do this intersection improvement.
This will add additional turn lanes at the intersection which
we believe will help us with the operations at that specific
intersection of Vanderbilt Beach Road at Logan.
In addition, I talked about that larger shoulder project
or the converting the right-turn lane to a through lane on
Immokalee Road, which will essentially give us four lanes
westbound in the a.m. Well, it's going to give us four lanes
all the time, but it will benefit us in the morning.
We went back and we looked at that project to see if
there were any areas that we could do without doing
substantial permitting where the pavement already existed,
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and we found that we would be able to take a subset of that
project from Valewood to Northbrooke, which is
immediately east of the interchange, and be able to do that
re-striping now. So we're currently working with our
striping contractor to be able to get those quotes and get that
work scheduled. We hope to be able to accomplish that
over this spring.
One of the biggest improvements that we're going to
see from Immokalee Road is the Moving Florida Forward
Initiative that the Florida Department of Transportation, led
by Governor DeSantis, has brought forward, which is going
to provide two additional lanes on I-75 from Golden Gate
Parkway to Corkscrew Road.
For anyone who has had to go to the airport or just
travel north anytime on I-75 in the evenings, lately there's
been a 15-mile backup of congestion. And so this -- and up
to Corkscrew Road. Once you get up to Corkscrew Road, it
really starts freeing up.
So this will be an immense help to Immokalee Road,
because we are backing up all the way to and through the
Immokalee Road interchange, which doesn't allow people to
be able to get onto the interstate, and now -- then they're
sitting on Immokalee Road not letting that traffic traverse
between that interchange.
Since our last meeting, our traffic operations team
implemented a signal timing adjustment in the morning at
Vanderbilt Beach Road at Livingston Road. It consists of
what we call a double run of the left-turning movements.
You see the lefts go in the beginning, it stops, the greens
continue to go, and then before the end of that cycle, we run
those green lefts again. We actually started that at Golden
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Gate Parkway and Livingston Road, and it worked really
well for us. So we're doing that. We started that on
January 11th.
Our observations, previously the roadway would queue
from Livingston Road through Village Walk. With this
signal timing adjustment, we've been able to cut that queue
in half by just some simple signal timing adjustments.
In addition, we've been working on a project -- and
we're going to be implementing it over the next
month -- which is a retiming of all of the traffic signals on
Immokalee Road from Arthrex or Collier Preserve -- or
Collier Reserve to Woodcrest Drive/Quarry Drive. So
that's pretty much the entire corridor of Immokalee Road
that has traffic signals within it.
The in-season recommendations are under review.
Our implementation of that is imminent. We are also
following that up with a second phase, which will be our
out-of-season signal timing that we'll be doing, obviously,
out of season this year, and that's funded through a grant by
the Florida Department of Transportation.
So there's an opportunity that we have. I talk about the
I-75 and Immokalee Road interchange. The county
conducted a study, the Immokalee Road Corridor
Congestion Plan. The conclusion of that was that we
needed to do a diverging diamond interchange, that
interchange improvements were necessary.
Separate from our study, the Florida Department of
Transportation conducted the I-75 master plan. It also
came to the same conclusion. And FDOT's plan, master
plan, stated that interchange improvements were needed in
2025.
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What I can tell you is the I-75 and Immokalee Road
interchange is not included in the Moving Florida Forward
I-75 project. It's not funded in FDOT's 2045 strategic
intermodal system plan. So what that means in non-FDOT
speak is it's not funded through the state, and the project has
been on the MPO's priority list for over five years.
We've been in this position before. Exit 101, Collier
Boulevard, if you recall a few years back, I came to the
Board asking if we could put funding forward to advance
that interchange. The Board supported that. We went
back to FDOT, and lo and behold, FDOT found the money
to fund that. We actually did not need to advance it, but it
was enough to push them ahead.
Exit 107, Pine Ridge Road, we did a similar corridor
congestion study a few years ago on that. We had actually
programmed those improvements. We were going to take
them on with some nominal money from the Florida
Department of Transportation. Moving Florida Forward
funded that interchange.
And Exit 111, Immokalee Road, we found ourselves in
the same exact position in the early 2000s with FDOT when
they were doing the I-75 expansion project previously where
we went from four to six lanes -- we called at the IROCS
project -- where this project was originally planned to be
included, then it was taken out, and this board came forward
and put forth the dollars to be able to advance that project
and be able to be reimbursed.
So I believe that we have the opportunity to work with
FDOT to advance that interchange improvement to allow for
its construction concurrent with the main line I-75 interstate
improvements, and by doing that, we save mobilization.
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What I'm going to tell you and I'm going to tell all the
public that's here, when we go through construction, it's not
going to be fun. Go drive Collier Boulevard right now.
It's not fun. It's in the middle of construction. But the
improvement, once you get it, will be amazing.
But to be able to do that concurrent with those main
line means that we're only inconvenienced by construction
one time and not two separate times and with who knows
how many years in between.
We've had some preliminary discussions with FDOT,
and they indicate that design and construction is upwards of
$40 million.
I didn't ask them to sharpen their pencil until I could
get some direction from the Board, but I'd really like some
direction today to go back and work with FDOT, have them
sharpen that pencil, tell us how much money and what the
timing would be on it, because depending on their
contracting mechanism would depend on when we would
actually need to provide those dollars to them. And then I
can work with our Finance Committee and our budget office
to see what we can do and also look and scour to find any
grants that may be available as well. As you know, our
team is really good at going out and finding grant money.
So with that, I thank you for your indulgence this
evening, and if you have any questions...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Quick question.
Just -- may I? Do you want me to light up?
The $40 million for the diverging diamond, my
memory serves me that that's about half of what the cost is.
MS. SCOTT: Actually, up in Lee County for their
Colonial Boulevard project, they're about $40 million -- 40
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or $50 million, and that includes a continuous-flow
intersection as well as an R cut and the diverging diamond.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Good, good.
I just recall in one of our previous MPO meetings that there
was -- maybe it was 951 -- Collier Boulevard and I-75, that
it was close to $90 million.
MS. SCOTT: You are correct, sir. I-75 at Collier
Boulevard was $90 million, and that's a partial cloverleaf
intersection.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So it's a
different --
MS. SCOTT: It's a different configuration, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: We're smarter now.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Ms. Scott, yesterday
in my office, you and Mr. Bosi gave me a good sort of
common sense, very easy to understand -- an easy
understanding of what a moratorium would do. I got the
same 500 emails that Commissioner Saunders got. We
probably all did. I'm not saying -- this is probably a mixed
group in the audience here, but quite a few of those emails
imply that the person thinks if right now we pass a
moratorium for a year, all construction across that entire
area will cease to happen and there will be a freeze on
everything, and that's not what Commissioner Saunders is
implying -- but some of the emails I got that were just a
couple of sentences. And that's not the case.
So I don't know if this is a good time to sort of package
that. And I don't want to leap forward. I hope we have a
very diverse conversation, and it's not moratorium, yes or
no. But as we all know, we got some emails that were two
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sentences. Say yes to the moratorium and stop all the
building across that entire area, and that actually wouldn't
happen even if we did move forward as aggressively as
possible, just hypothetically.
Can you, in short terms, sort of repeat what you said in
my office which sort of painted a much tighter and more
eloquent, sort of, explanation of -- you know, people think
moratorium, they just think, complete halt and then it's like,
you know, we're going to take a 12-month break on
everything.
And, you know, I'll pitch it back to you. I think it was
actually Mr. Bosi that said some of it, but you-all are a great
tag team, so...
MS. SCOTT: I can start, and then Commissioner
Saunders may jump in.
My understanding of the proposal is that the
moratorium would prohibit, for a period of time, privately
initiated Growth Management Plan amendments.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Amendments.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On two segments of
roadway.
MS. SCOTT: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only. And are we
not -- forgive -- who's -- I'm second on the list.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no. It's the
Chair's job.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. Thank
you.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'm done.
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Two things,
Ms. Scott. When this hearing is completed, there are going
to be some motions, and one of the motions is going to be to
allocate the funding for that diverging diamond interchange
as well as the other projects that you have listed.
And so I want to be -- make sure that we make the
motion that's going to be most effective for you to go to the
Florida Department of Transportation and get this project
moving. So at the end of all this, that will be one of the
motions that will be made.
But on to the moratorium for just a quick second,
because I know we're going to get to public comment, and
that's going to be the big issue. There is no single-bullet
solution to traffic problems anywhere in the county. Some
folks are going to say, perhaps, well, a moratorium isn't
going to solve the traffic problem. I agree 100 percent. If
we have a moratorium today, tomorrow's traffic's going to
be the same as it was today. It's not going to change traffic,
but what it will do is a couple things. One, it will send the
message to developers and speculators that are buying
residential lots with the belief that they're automatically
going to get a rezone to commercial and a comprehensive
land-use change, it will send a message that that's
not -- there's no guarantee that you're going to get that.
But it will also -- it will basically put a pause to these
site-specific comprehensive land-use changes that is
resulting in these traffic problems. It's only for a year. So
albeit that's a small amount of time and it's a small location,
but I think it sends the right message.
And I kept this deliberately small because if I came into
this commission and said I want a countywide moratorium
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on rezones, there would be no consideration of it. This is
very precise, very small, sends the right message, and will
have some impact; it will give us some time.
And so, Commissioner McDaniel, that's what I'm trying
to accomplish and, Commissioner LoCastro, that's my goal
here.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It's not a cure-all.
It's just a piece.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We already know.
Are we going to have a presentation from Planning and
Zoning with regard to this? I saw some maps yesterday
with the properties that are impacted. Are you the only
staff that's going to present to us today?
MS. SCOTT: I am unless you have other questions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I have other
questions.
Are you -- am I going to be allowed to -- I mean, I saw
maps yesterday that delineated the road segments that are
being impacted by this. I saw a heat map with growth. I
saw the total amount of property owners that are impacted
by this, and I'd like a presentation on that at some stage.
Now, if you want to go to the public and have the
public comment and then have that come in, I'm fine with
that as well. I don't really -- I don't really care. But there's
a lot of information that's out there that really is impactful
with regard to what's being proposed tonight.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And,
Mr. Chairman, if I can make one comment for
Commissioner McDaniel. And if the Board votes tonight to
go forward with a moratorium, what that means is we have a
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public hearing on an ordinance. So we're not voting on a
moratorium today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, I'm well aware
of what we're voting on.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wanted to
make sure that everybody understood that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I appreciate you
clearing that up for these people, but I knew walking in here
what we were actually doing, so -- and, again, it
wasn't -- my lack of support the last time that this issue, in
fact, came up wasn't that I didn't want to hear from the
community. As a matter of fact, I suggested that and that
we move it to the evening to better engage the community
and get a report from our staff with things that we could, in
fact, do. It didn't have to do with the support of the
moratorium. But I appreciate your clarification, sir.
So do we want to do that presentation from Zoning and
Planning now?
CHAIRMAN HALL: I would like to hear it, but I
would like to get the public comment so that we can get
down to our discussions and all of our points without the
interruption.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we now have 38 registered
speakers here in the room, and I currently have two people
on Zoom.
I'm going to remind the speakers here -- I'm going to
call a couple names. We'd like you to queue up at both
podiums so we can move along a little quickly.
Your first speaker is Danielle Hudson, and she will be
followed by Brad Cornell.
MS. HUDSON: First up. Good evening. My name
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is Danielle Hudson. I'm the vice president of public policy
at the Naples Area Board of Realtors.
We are here in opposition to the proposed building
moratorium being moved forward for further discussion.
While traffic is certainly a worthwhile concern to discuss
and to find solutions for, our board feels that congestion
along two large arterial roadways does not constitute a
building moratorium.
Traffic is also not the only concern that we have as a
county. Time and again, in these chambers, we have heard
the drum being beat for creative solutions to the workforce
housing and affordable housing concerns that we have in
Collier County.
We at the Naples Area Board of Realtors have, for
years, advocated for attainable solutions to the attainable
housing crisis starting first and foremost with building more
housing and allowing individuals the full realization of their
private property rights.
While often deemed self-serving by those against
development, as an industry group, along with our coalition
partners in the building industry and attainable workforce
housing space, we have a duty to educate the public that
there has been a historical decline in the number of new
housing developments each year down from 1.7 million in
the United States to 1.3 million in January 2023.
Commissioners, we are still not close to closing the
gap. As we heard earlier today, the demand for this type of
housing greatly outweighs the supply.
We acknowledge that the language of the draft
ordinance does allow for development along the roadways;
however, we have to ask ourselves whether the development
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we will get is the development we need.
We believe that the building moratorium will disable
or, at a minimum, slow down efforts to solve for concerns
like attainable workforce housing, and the commercial
developments needed to support new housing because it will
disallow consideration of projects that may require different
zoning, density, and height to allow for streamlined
development of affordable multifamily rental housing and
middle -- missing middle housing in commercial,
single-family residential, and mixed-use zoned areas.
Our board believes that two things can be true at the
same time. The county can look for short-term and
long-term solutions to traffic and infrastructure concerns
along Vanderbilt and Immokalee Road while allowing
developers and land landowners to still bring forth their
plans via the already existing review approval or disapproval
process. That is in your hands.
Also, we find it interesting that in the last presentation
it was mentioned that traffic is heavy in the afternoons on
I-75. We posit that perhaps some of that traffic would
diminish if there were housing for individuals to live in that
was closer to where they work.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's bullshit.
MS. HUDSON: We thank you for your consideration
of our concerns and ask that you do not move forward with
further consideration of this moratorium. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Ms. Hudson.
You know what, we're not -- all right. If I hear another
comment like that, I'm going to have these guys remove you,
because we're not going to put up with that. We're going to
run a professional meeting, we're going to be courteous, and
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we're going to be professional.
And as the Chair, I have every right to do that, and so
that's just fair warning. Let's all be nice. Let's all be
respectful, and that's all I'm going to say about it.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Brad Cornell.
He'll be followed by Rae Ann Burton.
MR. CORNELL: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
I'm Brad Cornell. I'm here on behalf of Audubon Western
Everglades and Audubon Florida.
And I wanted to add some comments in complement to
what your staff have said and what a lot of the public
discussion has been in the community on these two big road
corridors.
We recognize that the moratorium is not going to solve
all the issues. There are a lot of issues in every big road
corridor. We see that as well. And we also recognize the
need for solving affordable housing and for looking at traffic
issues and look -- and what we see this moratorium doing is
giving us a chance to stop, pause, and look at -- it's not a
complete stop of development. It's a pause in these rezones
and Growth Management Plan amendments that gives us an
opportunity to look at the bigger picture. What are some
smart ways to comprehensively solve some of our problems
and address some of our issues?
Among those issues, from Audubon's perspective, is
that nature has important environmental services to offer in
these corridors. We've seen catastrophic wildfire in the
Immokalee Road corridor in the last year, and we've also
seen flooding, and these are things that threaten our
neighborhoods. So we want to look at ways, as we look at
the traffic in these corridors, to look at some of the other
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issues that perhaps we can work with the natural resources
to solve.
Managing traffic goes hand in hand with investing in
green infrastructure in these areas, like the Conservation
Collier Alligator Flag Preserve, which is right across from
the Laurel Oak Elementary and Gulf Coast High School.
And it's also a part of the Mirasol Flowway, which is an
important component of green infrastructure in moving
water and keeping flood waters away from where we live.
Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary has been overdrained for
the last 20 years. We are suffering severe dry season
drawdown of our wetlands. We don't have any wood storks
nesting at Corkscrew anymore, and we need to raise
groundwater levels to not only restore those wetlands but
also to fight the risk of catastrophic wildfire like we saw
along Immokalee Road corridor around Wilson.
So that could be helped by considering perhaps
moving -- in strategic areas with some central water and
central sewer in these corridors, that would help raise those
groundwater levels without conflicting with septic and
sewer.
Also investing in transit and bike lanes would help ease
congestion nominally. We also recognize and
appreciate -- I've driven a number of these diverging
diamond interchange improvements. That makes a lot of
sense.
And, finally, I just want to note that Audubon's
Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary has a vital interest in seeing
effective management and sustainability of these two road
corridors. They are the ways that most of the 100,000
people that visit Corkscrew get there and get away.
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Thank you.
Thank you, Brad.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Your next speaker is Rae Ann
Burton, and she will be followed by Steve Harrison.
MS. BURTON: Thank you. Good evening. Item 10
on today's agenda needs to be approved and a direction
given to the County Attorney to advertise and bring back an
ordinance implementing a 12-month moratorium on private
initiated rezoning petitions requiring Growth Management
Plan amendments to increase density beyond the current
plan.
Growth needs to be controlled, and today's
infrastructure cannot even handle today's growth, let alone
the future. There's much concern with the increase of
traffic on Immokalee, and without any control, it would be
even worse.
These development density increases currently are
creating congestion and dangerous road travel and even
death. The infrastructure needs to be ahead of
development, not behind; therefore, please approve this
mandatorium [sic] that will slow it down and give us more
chance to catch up.
Since the developers are requesting these rezonings,
they need to be -- that want to be increased in density and
shorter borders to create more profits, they should pay more
of the infrastructure fees and not be dumped on the public.
The developments are the reasons for our congested
traffic and even deaths due to the densities of the
communities and the taxpayers paying most of the cost.
This -- developers should not be allowed to reduce their
share of infrastructure fees just because they state they will
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set aside affordable housing which is used as a carrot to get
approval. I've seen it too many times at these meetings
only to be changed at the next meeting. Other incentives
that -- are leaving the cost burden on the taxpayers.
We need to have it under control now. Please put a
pause on it, and let us catch up. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Steve Harrison,
and he will be followed by John C. Johnson.
MR. HARRISON: Good evening. I think all of us
would agree that the underlying issue here is the density of
utilization of the property in the county.
A couple of things that are within your bailiwick that
you can consider right away: Take a look at code
enforcement and the rules on density, and some of our
streets in the Estates, we now have what are amounting to
trailer parks being set up with multiple trailers occupied by
renters and their pets. I've complained, myself, to Code
Enforcement. They come out and look. I'm not sure we
have any teeth to take any action to keep for illegal density
improvements that may not even be connected up to septic
facilities.
In the same vein, in the building permit area, I'm aware
of structures being added to without the benefit of building
permits. I don't know how you control this, but people are
looking for more intensive ways to use their property
because their costs are so high. They want to get some
revenue out of the properties one way or another, okay?
You may need to take a look at the scope of the
moratorium. I live not far from Golden Gate Boulevard.
The county, to take pressure off Immokalee, has now built
six north/south connectors to take traffic off of Immokalee
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and soon to be Vanderbilt down to Golden Gate Boulevard.
That may now be a failed roadway. Trinity would know.
But I can tell you that it's bumper to bumper traffic at
6:30 in the morning every day of the week. Mostly
tradesmen and people going to construction sites in town.
That's it.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John C. Johnson,
and he will be followed by Shirley Lytwyn. I hope I'm
saying that right, Shirley.
MS. LYTWYN: Yeah.
MR. JOHNSON: Good evening, Commissioners. I
would like to take this opportunity to thank you for giving
me -- my opinion on the traffic on Immokalee Road and
Vanderbilt Road are so congested.
First, what are some of the most expensive
neighborhoods in Collier County? Port Royal, Aqualane
Shores, Olde Naples, the Moorings, Parkshore, Pine Ridge
Road Estates, Livingston Woods, the Oakes. None of these
neighborhoods are gated and have roads that you can use to
go through them to help take the congestion off the main
roads.
Now, let's start where the problem is, Immokalee Road
from 75 to Oil Well and Vanderbilt from 75 where it
currently ends. There are 53 gated communities in this area
and another 17 in the Vineyards. Thank God somebody
was thinking and made them put a road that ran north from
Pine Ridge to Vanderbilt Beach Road. There are over
50,000 people that must use these roads to access the
entrances of their gated communities and another 50,000
that need to get home in the Rural Estates.
Commissioner Saunders, you have been an elected
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official for 42 years that represented this area did nothing.
County Attorney, 1982 to 1986; County Commissioner,
1986 to 1994; State House, 1994 to 1998; State Senate, 1998
to 2008; and county commissioner, again, 2016 to present.
The cows are now on the beach in Port Royal. It is
way too late to close the barn door, but it's not too late to
drain the swamp. Thank you again for this opportunity to
let me talk.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shirley Lytwyn,
and she will be followed by Jody Ressler-Tetro.
MS. LYTWYN: Hello. My name is Shirley Lytwyn,
and I would like to talk about the subject red-light running.
There was a significant accident on Immokalee Road and
Wilson Boulevard, and I'm going to read to you what
happened.
On December 1st, 2023, at 4:30 p.m., a dump truck and
a truck hauling sod had a collided at Wilson Boulevard and
Immokalee Road in Golden Gate Estates. Eastbound lanes
are completely blocked. Expect significant delays.
Karen Handman said, Golden Gate Boulevard is
backed up too. I was at Immokalee and 951 around 5:30,
and I decided at the last minute, rather than try to go back to
Golden Gate Boulevard because Collier Boulevard was
completely backed up. She ended up going to 75 to 29, Oil
Well Road and Everglades Boulevard. It took her 40
minutes to get there.
Tina Rose said, I was in the turning lane two cars
behind the dump truck. Both trucks went through the red
light, but the sod truck didn't even try to stop at this light.
What are we going to do about running red lights here?
So Collier Boulevard was backed up. Golden Gate
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Boulevard was backed up. All these places have a lot of
accidents, too.
And down to this, what do we want to give the people
in the east? They want a Home Depot. They want a
Walmart. They want a Lowe's. Give the people what they
want. And it's going to cut down on traffic because now
they have to go clear off of Pine Ridge and Airport. Give
the people what they want.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jody
Ressler-Tetro, followed by Joseph M. Harris.
MS. RESSLER-TETRO: Good evening. I just want
to thank you, Commissioner Saunders, for hosting this
meeting. I actually said something similar at a recent
Collier County Planning Commission meeting when I
believe it was Commissioner Shea, in reference to the JLM
East development, he was listening to the presentation, he
was listening to the traffic studies that were done, and he
made a really interesting statement by saying, we keep
approving all of those rezonings of these new developments
allowing for greater density. We have traffic studies that
suggest that the roads can accommodate all of the additional
cars that are going to result from these developments. But
he says, we don't have a good handle on the cumulative
impact of everything we're approving. And I thought that
was an incredible insight, and I would ask that you think
about the same thing as you continue to approve
developments that involve rezoning.
I'm all for affordable housing for our essential
workforce. They need a place to live. We need them.
They're year-rounders. But they do -- obviously, all of
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these things are going to increase additional traffic.
I don't have a solution to the traffic. I can tell you, as
somebody who lives at The Quarry, you put in a -- there's a
stoplight there now at Woodcrest and Immokalee Road.
One of the things that I would urge you to think about from
a traffic planning perspective is consider a right lane turn on
that road when you're heading north, because in the evening
that road is backed up all the way to the Rotary, because
anybody who's going straight across Immokalee Road into
The Quarry is backing up the majority of the people who
want to turn right. So I think that would help.
The other thing that I would just ask you to think
about -- I've heard a couple of comments already just about
the traffic and all of the things that folks are doing south of
Immokalee Road. I don't think we should lose sight of the
fact that people who live out east, not everybody heads
south into the city. There's people that work in Bonita that
are going to always have to go on Immokalee Road.
And I guess my final comment would be, I don't know
much about diverging diamonds, but all I can say is it takes
me 30 minutes in the morning -- I'm not sure why you're
doing that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They're scary. You
just have to follow the signs. You don't die when you go
through one, I promise, but they're scary.
MS. RESSLER-TETRO: I'm not -- I'm not concerned,
but I was up at Colonial and 75, and I will agree it was scary
with all of the construction.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
MS. RESSLER-TETRO: But I would hope that
there's going to be two lanes for people to merge onto 75,
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because it is backed up forever, that right lane in the evening
and in the morning.
So thank you for the time.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Joseph M.
Morris. And he doesn't seem to be -- is that you, sir? At
this podium, please. Mr. Morris will be followed by Mary
Tatigian.
MR. MORRIS: Short people. Thank you very much
for allowing me to speak.
First of all, I'd like to say I don't want to take up too
much of your time. I did send an email to all five of the
commissioners. I hope you got it. I hope you take the
time to look at it for my suggestions and comments.
I don't want to be redundant. So I'd like to thank
Commissioner Saunders for hosting this and suggesting the
moratorium and the rest of the Board for considering it as
well.
And, obviously, I'm in support of the moratorium. I'm
over at Heritage Bay Golf and Country Club on Immokalee
Road, and it's death defying just trying to get out of our
complex.
And I'll let the others speak. You can look at my
email, if you will. Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Mary Tatigian.
We're going to follow Mary up with Robert Smith on Zoom.
Ms. Tatigian's been ceded additional time from Maryann
Bachelor. Can you raise your hand, Maryann.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And by Chas Tatigian, who is right
there.
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Mary will have a total of nine minutes. And let me put
her slide show up.
MS. TATIGIAN: Good evening, and thank you very
much for holding this session tonight. We understand you
have a long workday, and we appreciate your time tonight.
My name is Mary Tatigian, a resident of Naples for 40
years, and I am in District 3. And we thank Commissioner
Saunders very, very much for bringing this issue forward.
The Board of Collier County -- the Collier County
Board of County Commissioners is comprised of five
elected members. Commissioners serve as the governing
body of the county and have the responsibility of setting
policies that protect the health, safety, welfare, and quality
of life of our residents and visitors. I just want to point out
"quality of life for the residents." That's my key point
there.
The Golden Gate Master Plan, which has been in place
since the '80s, again, it's a guide of land use and public
facility decision-making to balance the need to provide basic
services with natural resource concerns through the
well-planned mix of compatible uses with the -- which -- to
ensure the health, safety, welfare, and quality of life of the
residents, local residents.
So rezoning from low density to high density is
definitely a negative impact on the quality of life of
residents.
Why the need to slow the growth? Quality of life,
peace and quiet, shortage of resources like water, lack of
infrastructure, traffic congestion, accidents, increased crime,
shortage of law enforcement personnel, inability to receive
proper healthcare. And the last thing, because it's the right
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thing to do.
Quality of life. We need the commissioners to protect
what we deserve and what we pay taxes for and to abide by
the Golden Gate Master Plan. Please, no rezoning.
Resource scarcity and sustainability. Is there enough
water? What about fires? Evacuation routes? Is there
enough roads for us to get out of there? If there are big
wildfires out there in Golden Gate Estates, I don't know how
people are going to get out of there. Have we thought about
opening up Everglades to I-75?
Fatal traffic accidents in Collier County. In 2022, I
was told by the Sheriff's Office that fatal traffic accidents in
Collier County have risen 50 percent. That was in 2022.
Traffic accident report, as you can see, how many
traffic accidents are reported in the city. Naples had 37.
That was for December.
Accidents in Collier County are a major cause of
property damage, injury, and death each year. Collier
County's statistics from National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration show that traffic crashes remain a primary
public safety issue. So as a registered nurse of 30 years, my
concern for my community is the welfare and health and
safety of our residents and our visitors.
Collier County has seen a drastic increase in crime.
These were just some of the crimes in December. Each day
the crime has just risen due to the increase of growth.
Those are just some slides of our finest trying to take
care of us.
Healthcare dilemma. Like I said, as a registered nurse,
I focus on the health of our community. I see patients every
day, and they tell me I cannot get in to see my primary care
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physician. We just have a shortage of doctors -- a shortage
of all workers, but we continue to build, build, build high
density with more people, and we just cannot get the
healthcare that we deserve. I think that's a crisis.
Slow the growth, please. As residents of Collier
County, we would like you to restore and maintain our
quality of life. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is going to
be -- excuse me. Your next speaker is going to be coming
to us on Zoom, and that is Tom Eslip.
Mr. Eslip, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that at this time. Mr. Eslip, you're unmuted. You
have three minutes, sir.
MR. ESLIP: Thank you very much for taking the time
today to hear from the citizens of Collier County. At the
risk of being redundant, I just want to touch on a couple
points. I won't cover what other people have said.
Number one, I don't know that I've heard enough about
safety concerns, specifically U-turn and left-turn lanes.
With the increasing traffic that is coming in mostly east on
Immokalee, there are a number of places where the left-turn
lane gets backed up into regular traffic. And I would like to
see, as part of the studies that are being done, safety
concerns with that with sudden lane changes that are
happening, most especially during rush hour, because that's
when they back up into the regular traffic lanes. But I have
yet to hear any commentary with regards to concerns of
safety and what might be able to do done to make left turns
and U-turns safer than they are today.
The second thing is just with regard to the density
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concerns. Yeah, I guess it's frustrating for residents that it
always seems like the builders' concerns and needs are
always outweighed than what the residents would feel. It
just always seems that when the zoning changes are
requested, the momentum of the builders far outweighs what
the residents would think.
So I just want to encourage the County Commissioners
to have the courage to reject zoning just because they're
coming from powerful builders versus the constituency
that's actually voting.
And the third point I just want to make is the side
roads, artery roads. For example, I know there was
reference to Immokalee and Woodcrest Drive being the first
cut-through from Immokalee over to Vanderbilt. This is a
very small, narrow two-lane road with ditches on either side,
that if anybody is on that road, morning rush or evening
rush, you'd understand very quickly the amount of backup
there and the safety concern with the narrowness of that
road, and it's quite a residential area.
Is there due consideration being given to those roads
beyond just what I would say would be Immokalee or
Vanderbilt in the process?
And my final point is going to be -- I know there was a
lot of discussion over the interchange at Immokalee and 75
and the diverging diamond, which I don't know what it is.
But I could tell you, having traveled that road frequently, the
problem isn't the interchange. The problem is the capacity
of I-75. Once you're on I-75 and you finally clear through,
it's fine until you get to Bonita Beach Road. It backs up
again.
So I would just caution thinking that the interchange
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itself is going to make the problem go away. It is -- it is
backed up well onto 75 for at least a half a mile, if not a
mile, due to the inability of I-75 to handle that. So I know
there was a conversation about FDOT expanding 75. I
think that needs to become a major priority of this
commission, because until the capacity of 75 is addressed,
the traffic problems, not just Immokalee, but Pine Ridge as
well, which are the entrance and exit ramps, is going to
continue.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker here in the room is
James Muur, and he'll be followed by Diane Oczkowski.
MR. MURR: Good evening. I'm Jim Muur. My
wife and I live near Logan and Immokalee Road.
And I won't repeat what everybody else has said. I
fully agree with it, but what I haven't heard enough
conversation about is -- and I heard Tiffany say she was
going to -- we're working on a light timing -- Trinity, I'm
sorry -- a light timing issue, but because it backs up so
much, the traffic backs up into the intersection. I know
that's illegal. We don't have enough sheriff's deputies to
support that.
But at Valewood, Logan, and Collier Boulevard, traffic
frequently backs up into the intersection. Nobody wants to
get stuck. They all want to move forward. And there's
going to be additional serious accidents at all the
intersections where traffic backs up into the intersection. I
know you're working on it. I'd like to see the work done a
little faster. Maybe timing the lights is the answer.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Diane
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Oczkowski, followed by Jim Kamaryt. Diane has been
ceded additional time from Kevin A. Schmidt.
Could you raise your hand, sir?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Margaret Kelton?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And Robert Carlsen?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: She will have a total of 12 minutes.
MS. OCZKOWSKI: I may not use them all.
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MS. OCZKOWSKI: Good evening, Commissioners.
My name is Diane Oczkowski. I live at Island Walk.
And I've been very diligent the last few weeks trying to
get Commissioner Saunders' notice of this hearing out to all
the residents at Island Walk, standing two or three hours at
the post office trying to encourage them to go to the
hearings and email the commissioners because I really care
about these overburdened, overcrowded roads.
And our Island Walk board voted unanimously for a
moratorium, a one-year moratorium, and I am for the
one-year moratorium.
But that being said, I wanted to mention the Collier
County Board of County Commissioner hearing held on
October 24th and what occurred there. That hearing was
regarding the Ascend high-density apartment project.
There was close to 75 speakers with a full hearing room of
attendees opposing the project which was going to be
diagonally opposite Island Walk on Vanderbilt Beach Road,
and we knew that it was going to affect our traffic and
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probably cause more accidents.
Also, many letters to the commissioners voiced their
disapproval, yet the majority of commissioners voted to
approve the rezone of Ascend after all the protests. So the
commissioners don't listen to their constituents no matter
how many show up at these hearings, speak, or write letters.
Also, one of the commissioners, I won't mention his
name, criticized the seniors attending that hearing saying, in
effect, there's a lot of seniors here who have nothing better
to do.
So in addition to being ignored, seniors are insulted by
the same commissioners who they vote to reelect. So I
wonder if it's a waste of our time coming here to this
hearing, speaking, and writing letters. All Collier residents
want is smart growth in this county, which means better
planning for the current and future built roads so that the
roads are not overburdened with traffic congestion and also
better planning for our environment and our wildlife so we
still have some clean, green space left and our panthers,
bears, et cetera, do not become extinct. These are
reasonable goals.
Now we're -- now we're faced with this problem at
today's hearing of how to ease the traffic congestion during
rush hour on Immokalee and Vanderbilt Beach Roads.
We're discussing this now after the damage has already been
done to these two roads with the six-laning of Immokalee
Road and the Vanderbilt extension.
The commissioners know it's going to get even worse
for these two roads with all the future developments planned
east of Collier Boulevard. Why are the commissioners
reactive instead of proactive when it comes to planning?
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As per your request for public input on easing the
traffic on Immokalee and Vanderbilt Beach Roads, I did
some research and came up with some ideas. One, the
easiest temporary solution is a one-year moratorium on
rezoning and building permits until improvements have been
made to Immokalee and Vanderbilt Beach Roads to improve
traffic flow.
Two, have adaptive, synchronized traffic lights that
turn green at every intersection along Immokalee Road and
Vanderbilt Beach Road going west from Collier Boulevard
to Airport Road during morning rush hour and going east
Airport Road to Collier Boulevard during evening rush hour.
The timed adaptive green lights are in effect during morning
rush hour from 7 to 9 a.m. only and evening rush hour from
4 to 7 p.m. only Monday to Friday.
You can delay the start of the green light for each
intersection after the first one by a few seconds so traffic
moves smoothly and efficiently along both roads without
any stop-and-go traffic. Side streets and north/south turns
would be delayed until major traffic has passed the
intersection.
The goal of adaptive synchronization of traffic lights is
to get the greatest number of vehicles through the
intersections with fewer stops, and there would be fewer
red-light runners, as traffic would be flowing easily.
Three, encourage flex time for businesses, agencies, et
cetera, so not everyone arrives to work at the same time.
For example, construction would start at 7:00; hotels, 7:30;
schools at 8:00; public agencies, 8:30; banks at 10:00; also
hospitals, banks, restaurants, et cetera, could have their
workers choose their own shifts and, in many cases, be
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encouraged to work at home. This idea could be promoted
through advertising campaigns, business meetings, et cetera.
Four, ban truck and freight loading vehicles during
morning rush hour from 7 to 9 a.m. and evening rush hour
from 4 to 7 a.m. Monday through Friday only.
Five, electronically charge drivers via their license
plates a set fee for driving along Immokalee and Vanderbilt
Beach Roads during morning rush hour from 7 to 9 and
evening rush hour from 4 to 7 p.m. from Collier Boulevard
to Route 41 on both roads. Cameras would be installed on
these two roads only. We pay more for airline tickets at
peak travel time and higher hotel rates at popular times of
the year, so congestion pricing would work the same way.
Over time it will pay for itself and pay for other road
improvements, public transit, advertising, et cetera.
Those residents who do not work will choose other
times to travel on these two roads or use alternate routes,
and workers will find an alternative way to get to work.
Six, charge city employees and hospital employees
parking rates to encourage use of alternate forms of travel.
Seven, improve CAT transportation so workers have an
efficient and reliable alternative form of travel. Have
pickup stops at the entrance to most gated communities.
Eight, create economic incentives for developers to
have more worker housing in the city closer to work.
Nine, divert traffic to a ring road to avoid roads with
heavy traffic. You would have to decide on the road to use.
Ten, stop allowing any more construction on already
congested roads such as Immokalee and Vanderbilt Beach
Road up to Collier Boulevard. Instead, fill remaining space
on these two roads with parks, playgrounds, recreational
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areas, and other green spaces which we do not have enough
of.
Eleven, have strong land-use laws that do not
encourage continued urban sprawl to outlying areas that
require long commutes for workers such as in the Golden
Gate Estates area.
These are my ideas, Commissioners. You can take all,
some, or none of these suggestions. But if you do nothing,
traffic congestion will increase to drastic proportions on
Immokalee and Vanderbilt Beach Roads, and this will pose
a real threat to the quality of life of urban Collier County,
and that will be your final legacy to your constituents.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jim Kamaryt.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: I would like to just say let's
hold the applause. It works the same way both ways
whether somebody cusses or whether you clap, and it's
interrupting, so thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jim Kamaryt?
Kamaryt.
All right. I'm going to move on to Andrew Blitch, and
he will be followed by Diane Ebert.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Before Andrew gets
up, can I make a suggestion? I just -- and I'm assuming our
staff's paying attention, but I'm hearing a lot of real good
ideas from our community, hot spots where there's
circumstances that are going on, improvements that can be
made. And I would like, if you could, please, submit your
list to the court reporter and/or our staff. I just want an
assurance that you folks that drive these roads every single
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day, these are -- these are issues that are going to be heard.
So thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Blitch.
MR. BLITCH: Yeah. Good evening,
Commissioners, and thank you for taking time out of your
evening to listen to us.
Before I get into my -- what I wrote here, I want to
address -- the very first speaker, Ms. Danielle, made a claim
that if the moratorium were to happen, it would prohibit
low-income housing from being built. Not true. There's
plenty of already zoned commercial lots, as you know,
throughout Collier County, buildings that are vacant that can
be redeveloped. So this moratorium wouldn't stop
low-income housing from being built. It would just force
the developers to use those already commercial lots and not
use residential lots. So, yeah, that statement was -- that
bugged me from the very minute she said that.
My business -- I'm a small business owner here in
Naples. My business is a home service business that
employs 14 people, and we have six service technicians who
are driving the roads every day in their work vans. Traffic
is definitely a problem here in Naples. It is difficult for my
employees to get to work on time in the mornings, and also
going from job to job takes way too long, and it's difficult to
get to their jobs on time.
I, myself, experience these issues driving to work
westbound on Vanderbilt in the mornings and eastbound in
the afternoons. I'm always stuck in traffic.
Mr. Hall, last week I heard you on the radio morning
show discussing the issue. Oddly enough, I was sitting,
stopped in traffic on Vanderbilt Beach Road listening to you
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discuss the traffic issues on Vanderbilt Beach Road. You
acknowledged that there was, indeed, a traffic issue that
needed to be solved. You also stated that this moratorium
won't make the traffic any better. That is correct, but I
haven't heard many people make that claim, and if they are
making that claim, they're incorrect.
This moratorium won't make the traffic any better, you
are right. What it will do is it will prevent the traffic from
getting worse.
If you add more construction projects to those roads,
then the traffic will get worse on those roads, but if you halt
construction on those roads, or rezones I should say, at worst
the traffic will remain the same, but it won't get
worse -- well, it won't get as bad as if you didn't do the
moratorium. Given how bad the traffic already is, we don't
need more construction to make the traffic worse than it
already is.
I would also like to talk about the rezone issue. In a
recent meeting, Mr. Saunders brought the issue when Mr.
Bosi was up here, he had asked Mr. Bosi if he remembered
any time in the past year where the commissioners has voted
no on any rezone project. Mr. Bosi couldn't -- could not
think of one time, and Mr. Saunders agreed and also couldn't
think of one.
I did some research, and it's been more than a year.
It's been several years since this commission has voted no on
a rezone. While there may have been some 4-1 votes, with
one dissenting, the developers, ultimately, have gotten their
way 100 percent of the time over the past few years.
So in order to prevent traffic from getting worse and to
remove the stigma that you are a rubber stamp for the
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developers, I ask you to vote yes on the moratorium.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Diane Ebert.
She will be followed by -- Ed, forgive me. Is it Pysa?
MR. PYSA: Pysa.
MR. MILLER: You'll be after Diane.
Diane, you have three minutes.
MS. EBERT: Good evening, Commissioners. My
name is Diane Ebert. I used to sit up here for six -- for
eight years on the Planning Commission.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You did.
MS. EBERT: And you're right, the developers do get
their ways.
I moved to Collier County in 2000 when Old Cypress
was being built. It was one lane east and one lane west. It
was 10 years to get three lanes. Ten years we waited for
the three lanes. Now, we have Logan Boulevard.
The problem with Logan -- and it's a great road. But
the problem with Logan is it is one lane either way. It can't
be changed because of developers. But what is happening
is if there is an accident or if I-75 is blocked, we are the only
north/south road east of I-75.
I have gone south in the evening, and when there is an
accident, they start turning on Pine Ridge on Logan to get
north to get beyond Immokalee and to get to Bonita Beach
Road. We have a big problem right there and, you're right,
we back up into the intersection.
If we would just follow the growth development plan
and not overbuild and not use more density, if we use what
is in the Growth Management Plan, we would do ourselves a
favor.
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Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ed Pysa. He'll
be followed by Amanda Masino.
MR. PYSA: Yes. Hi, gentlemen. My name is Ed
Pysa. We live in La Morada, which is just at the
intersection -- close intersection of Collier and Immokalee.
I'm not going to take up all of my time, because it
would be redundant, and the last gentleman I thought made
a very good point, and that is that the traffic isn't going to
get any better. In fact, what really bothers me is that you
have these plans, long-term plans, and the plans are based on
something, I don't know what, because if you continue to
allow developers to take residential property and build 300
homes like they're doing on Immokalee just near our
community -- you've got 300 homes in the place of three
residential, maybe four residential properties. So I don't
know how you can plan if you can -- for the future, if you
continue to allow developers to do what they want.
The second point is that going out -- getting from
Collier -- excuse me. Getting from Immokalee to
Vanderbilt Beach Road on Woodcrest is a disaster. You
wait maybe 15 minutes to turn right to go a quarter of a
mile, and if you speed up traffic on Immokalee to get east
and west, it's going to make -- it's not going to help getting
onto Immokalee any better.
So I think some of these plans maybe for the future
need to be looked at in terms of the access to Immokalee and
to Vanderbilt Beach Road.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Amanda Masino,
and she'll be followed by Dr. Linda Dye.
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MS. MASINO: Hi. Thank you. Longtime listener,
first-time caller. So thanks for allowing me to be here.
I'm sorry. This is the first time I'm ever speaking in
front of a group like this, so I apologize.
CHAIRMAN HALL: You're doing good.
MS. MASINO: Linda was supposed to go first. She
has a bigger scope on this; however, I am a resident off of
Immokalee Road. I live in Heritage Greens. And I've
been a resident here for just under two years.
And there's a big traffic problem when it comes to the
do-not-block intersection that you guys have tried to
diligently monitor, and it's continually a problem. So I just
wanted to bring attention to it. And I had a couple of, you
know, ways to solve it, big ways, little ways, whatever it is,
and I would love an opportunity to share those, but I don't
want to waste time because I understand that there's a lot of
people here.
So I just want to bring attention to the fact also that we
have the Ivy Medical Center that is going to be happening
right there. That is going to -- as of right now, they follow
the same traffic pattern as us. So if we are driving,
let's -- the hardest route is driving on Immokalee Road
heading west towards 75. You have to make a U-turn at
Saturnia Lakes to get into the development. To get out of
the development, you have to wait until all three lanes of
traffic stop so the do-not-block intersection is free.
The likelihood of people doing that is very unlikely,
which causes a lot of zigzagging, a lot of people getting out
there, sitting in the middle of traffic not knowing what's
going on behind them, the cars that are in traffic, and it's just
a huge problem.
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So coming up with a couple of ways, you know, from
the perspective of, you know, making a service road a little
bit from, you know, our exit to the area of Laurel Oak where
there's, like -- Laurel Oak and Gulf Coast High School have
gates that are set back from Immokalee Road. So there is
an area that is south of Immokalee Road. Preserve Way
kind of extends over. And there's a public road there. So
being able to utilize that and access that in some kind of way
would greatly help that traffic, at least I would see.
But I just want to, once again, bring the attention to the
commercial use of the medical center that's being in there
that has no straight in or out. They also have to do U-turns
everywhere. And then on the other side of Saturnia Lakes
you have the for sale of property that is over there. So I just
wanted to bring attention to it.
Thank you for my time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Everybody clap for
her.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Linda Dye,
and she will be followed by Doug Brown.
DR. DYE: Good evening, everyone. I wonder if
Trinity is still here.
MS. SCOTT: Right behind you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: She's right behind you.
DR. DYE: Okay, good. Trinity, I would like to have
a copy of your slides to share with my community; is that
possible?
MS. SCOTT: Sure. Yep.
DR. DYE: All right. That's very good.
I'd like to share with people the ideas that you have
been talking about so they'll know what might be going on.
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One of the things I want to talk about is Heritage
Greens was built over 25 years ago, and there are also about
55 other communities that were built along this strip on
Immokalee. And one of the things is that many of these
places have only one egress and ingress, and that is only one
lane going out and one lane going in.
So we have 527 households, probably a thousand cars,
trying to use a one-lane driveway, basically. And what
Amanda talked about was that we have a
don't-block-the-box, and it doesn't. We tried. We're
patient. We've talked with the commissioners. We really
need a light there. Please figure out how that could happen.
My people talk about this. I've been on the board as a
president of the board for three years. Every single meeting
I hear about the traffic. It is a never-ending problem, and it
doesn't look like it can get any better unless we stop the
development or figure out a way to control the development
and the roads that go with it.
By the way, everyone sees traffic, but nobody sees
water, sewer, and other kinds of infrastructure
developments, which I have no knowledge of. But if we
can't keep up with the roads, are we keeping up with all the
other infrastructure?
Here's what I'd like to suggest. Any new planning,
please make sure every single development has access to at
least two different roads whatever you have to do because,
for us, we are dangerously landlocked. If there's an access
or tree that goes across our Heritage Green Drive, we can't
get out. It could be a flood, it could be a fire, a hurricane,
anything. There's no way for us to get out of our
community. You could have a fire there, and none of us
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would be able to escape.
The traffic on the road, even if you could get out, is
also so slow that we can't go anywhere. I can walk to
Pebblebrooke in 20 minutes, but I can drive there in 25
minutes, all right. That's how bad it is in that particular
area.
Let's see here. I hope you'll take whatever time you
need. If it's a one-year moratorium, great. If you need a
little more time to figure out the right answer, let's not keep
repeating the same old things that we have been doing and
repeating what the first 55 communities have done on
Immokalee. Let's try and make the new ones, whatever you
do, better than what you have now.
And I guess that's about it, and thanks for inviting us to
come tonight. And I know I have a whole crew here that
would have something to say. All right.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Doug Brown,
and he will be followed by Dr. Allen Menkin.
MR. BROWN: Thank you, Commissioners. My
name is Doug Brown. I've been a resident of Naples for
going on 32 years. My profession happens to be country
club management, which there's plenty of clubs to manage
when I'm down here.
I'm currently at Heritage Bay Golf & Country Club. In
my early part of the career in this town, I was at a club way,
way out east called Twin Eagles, and that was in 1998. It
was a two-lane road at that time. And I can tell you,
driving that road every single day for two-plus years, it was
a somewhat dangerous road at the time, but it was limited to
two times a day, early morning and then late afternoon as
everyone passed through there.
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You fast forward to now, and I look at a six-lane road
that capacity seems maximized, which I was -- I wish I was
a traffic engineer and I had a solution. I like solutions
being brought to me. I have no solutions for you. I'm
hoping staff members like Trinity Scott have these answers,
and they can bring them to you, and you're going to follow
through and get these things done.
I represent 1,250 doors, 2200-plus members, and we're
in support of that. And I'm not going to repeat all the other
things that everybody else has said.
The one thing I think we all understand, development is
going to occur. You said it; it's undeveloped property that
we have in this town. So it's how we develop it I think is
important.
All's -- I think all of us are asking is future
developments need to have a means of properly and safely
having an ingress and egress for existing properties as well
as all future properties, whether it's two going in, two going
out, whatever it is, because I can tell you at Heritage Bay
right now, I'd love to get a light, but I'm not looking at that.
I just want it to be safe getting in and out of the community
and all the other ones down Immokalee Road.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Allen
Menkin, and he will be followed by -- forgive me, again
here -- Fritz -- is it Rieya?
MR. RIEY: Riey.
MR. MILLER: Riey, thank you.
Dr. Menkin.
DR. MENKIN: Thank you for the opportunity to be
here. I'm going to be very brief.
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I live at Twin Eagles, and the traffic is much, much
worse than when the last speaker was there, and it's not
going to get any better.
My family's also lived on the East Coast in
Dade-Broward for over 65 years, and it pains me to see the
same things happening here that happened there, and I hope
that we can do a better job of it.
I would support almost anything. If you pump the
brakes on the traffic here and we don't have to jam the
brakes on Immokalee Road, great. If you need a
moratorium, great. If you need a five-year moratorium, but
do your best to do it. I completely support it, and I thank
you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Fritz Riey.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Troy.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Let's take two more speakers,
and then we'll have a court reporter break.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, sir. Mr. Riey will be
followed by -- Krysta Sylveystry?
MS. SYLVESTER: Sylvester.
MR. MILLER: Sylvester. I'm sorry. I can't read
that.
Sir.
MR. RIEY: Okay, thank you.
So, yeah, I'd like to thank Commissioner Saunders for
bringing this issue up. I've been in Naples for six years,
and one of my observations, though, is -- you know, I've
lived in places like the northeast where there's a lot more
density, and there are things that could be done, I think,
in -- and planning is probably the key thing. So I think
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having a moratorium that allows time to plan and also, then,
trying to follow the plan, I think is really critical. Things
like traffic calming, there are all kinds of things that are
being done worldwide that I think potentially -- and I've got
to say, I thought the traffic planning studies that were done
within Collier were pretty interesting, but the thing is, you
have to also, then, follow the plans. And to do ad hoc
changes to zoning just at -- it destroys the value of the plans.
So I'd recommend that the moratorium would allow a
little more time to come up with ways to better plan. I
think people's property rights are valuable, but at the same
time somebody who buys residential property does not
necessarily have the right to get a windfall to have it
converted to commercial.
So I think there's something -- you know, property
rights are valuable, but you don't have inevitable [sic] right
to just take windfalls and damage other people's property
rights. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Krysta Sylvestry
[sic], and that will leave us 13 speakers after the break, sir.
MS. SYLVESTER: First of all, thank you for
allowing us to speak and to share our thoughts and our
concerns with you.
I did not plan on speaking tonight until I got here, so
this won't be polished, but I'm going to try my best.
I live in Ventana Pointe right off of Immokalee Road in
North Naples. I grew up in a construction background with
my family who's been building since the 1950s, so you can
probably understand I support construction. I support
construction when it's done right, when it's done at the right
time, and when it's with good intention.
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I'm also a real estate agent, so I travel the road all the
time, anytime, weekday, weekend, it doesn't matter; we're
always on the road.
So I see the traffic in the morning, I see it in the
evenings, and I've noticed a considerable amount of traffic
jams. Having to arrange our showings and getting to places
on time is proving to be more difficult and difficult because
of the amount of traffic that has come to our roads.
The biggest thing is, I would like to say that being out
on these roads I'm seeing what's happening. I'm seeing the
traffic. And the moratorium is something that -- like, I'll
rebound off of what other people said. It's not going to
solve the issue. It's not going to make it any better. But by
allowing the county time to do better -- to implement better
planning and put things into place for these roadways, it's
going to hopefully make it not get any worse.
And the biggest thing is these developers, let's face it,
none of them are from here. As a real estate agent, I have
really great ways of finding out where people live. And I
can tell you this much, none of these developers live here,
number one. They don't care about us, they don't know us,
they don't know why we chose to live in paradise, okay.
They don't care how it affects us and what it's going to
do. They also don't live with an apartment complex in their
backyard. Most of them have water views, golf courses,
preserves, you name it.
So -- and I'm pretty sure anyone that's in here that has
chosen to come here to live in paradise didn't want to have
an apartment in their backyard. They would have chose to
live in New York; Chicago; Youngstown, Ohio, where I'm
from; LA, any other of those other places.
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We chose Naples. We chose Collier County because
it's paradise. That's why we came here. And I'm in my 30s
and I'm young and my husband's young, and we work really
hard to live here. And we're not the bigger bear, and the
construction people are the bigger bear, and they're going to
squash us. And we are the future, the young people that are
coming here that want to live in paradise and that want to
keep it as paradise.
So I urge you to please, please go forward with this
moratorium even if it's just for a year so it allows us better
planning, us as residents time to adjust, and keep these
developers -- tell them to slow down a little bit. Tell them
to make their planning a little bit better and give those of us
that have chosen paradise the chance to live in paradise the
way that we wanted it to be and to keep it as such, because it
needs preserving.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. With that, it's 6:31.
Let's take a court reporter break. Let's come back at 6:45.
(A brief recess was had from 6:31 p.m. to 6:45 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Let's take our seats, please,
ladies and gentlemen. Let's get rolling.
Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your next speaker
is -- thank you, please. Your next speaker is Brian
McPartlin. He'll be followed by Jerry Solomon.
Brian -- is it McPartlin?
MR. McPARTLIN: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Oh, thank you, sir. And then Jerry
Solomon.
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MR. McPARTLIN: Good evening. Thanks for
having me. Just -- I'll be quick.
I'm from Heritage Greens as well, so you've already
heard from our neighborhood. And my biggest thing is the
whole -- the Immokalee corridor for the moratorium, I am
for it, to pump the brakes a little bit and see what's going on.
Two things. My biggest thing outside of all that is the
safety getting in and out of our community. It's terrible
with the high school there, the grade school. We've already
seen, I think, someone last year get hit on their bike coming
across. So anything that could be done -- I know we've
tried for lights -- to slow it down and just kind of clear the
intersection up is very important to me.
But -- and I'll keep it real quick. We've heard it all
here so far tonight, the double diamond. I'm from Detroit
originally. In the past five, six years, I lived off I-75 up
there for my entire life. They've just installed double
diamonds in main open county [sic], five of them, and they
work.
The only thing I could tell you is, if you're going to
install them -- what they did not do in Michigan or Detroit,
they didn't give the community a lesson as to what they are
and how to get through them. Because when they opened
them all up, we started kind of going around each other and
like, what's going on? But once they opened it up, it really
made a big difference in the main intersections off I-75.
So my main thing also -- that's just my comment, my
experience but also anything you could do regarding the
safety in the community around there to get it -- it's
basically -- for the kids in our community is greatly
appreciated.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jerry Solomon.
He'll be followed by Cheryl A. Ollila.
MR. SOLOMON: Good evening, and I want to thank
you for having this hearing.
I agree with what everyone has said regarding the
moratorium, whether it's crime, safety, quality of life, so I'll
focus on a different topic. And I'll focus on data. Anyone
who knows me knows I like to approach problems with data.
Mrs. Scott -- Ms. Scott discussed long-range planning,
and I assume any long-range planning, traffic counts are an
important component. So I went to the Collier County
site -- website and looked at traffic counts, and it covers
every section of roadway in the county.
If you look at Immokalee east of Collier, it's grown
almost 50 percent from 2012 to 2019. Immokalee east of
I-75 has grown 32 percent. Immokalee west of Wilson
Boulevard has grown 37 percent. Some of these have
grown 6 percent a year, which means it doubles in 12 years.
Simple arithmetic. How can we continue?
And you might wonder how I looked at 2012 to 2019.
I wanted to go to '22, because that's the latest data available,
but as we all know, we've had COVID depress the data for
the last few years, so it's unreliable, yet it's still increasing in
many of these roads over the last few years.
So, you know, my question is, how do these counts
factor into planning? You know, if we're going to do
long-range planning, we need reliable data, and we don't
have the data for the last few years. So if nothing else, we
need a moratorium so we could collect realistic traffic
counts to base future plans on. Going with what we have
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now is just totally unrealistic.
So, again, I ask you to be patient, wait the year, get
good information, and we can move forward with reliable
information.
Thank you for hearing us.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Cheryl A. Ollila,
and she will be followed by Austin Beach.
MS. OLLILA: Thank you. Good evening,
Commissioners.
I've been a Quarry resident for 16 years. I serve as
president of the association. It's a 900-home community off
Immokalee Road near Collier Boulevard.
I've been in front of the commissioners, in front of the
Planning Commission, in front of Trinity. You've all been
very accommodating listening to our concerns. A lot of
development over those 16 years. But what I find
incomprehensible is how every single traffic study that
seems to be done for projects says that the roads can handle
it.
And in 2019, I believe it was, I was at one of the public
hearings off Immokalee Road on a project, and it was stated
by the Transportation Department, Collier County, that
Immokalee Road would be a failed road in 2021, and there
were many who were saying it's already failed, yet the
approval for development has been unabated. It just
continues on and on and on, and I don't understand how
every traffic study that comes before the Commission says it
can be handled. This project should go through. It doesn't
make any sense. It doesn't correlate.
I am in favor of the moratorium. I think we need to do
a pause so that some of these transportation projects can
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catch up. I truly support trying to get the advance funding
because the development takes place unabated, and the
transportation projects are good, but they're too long into the
future, perhaps beyond some of our lifetimes. So I would
ask that you do consider this pause. I thank Commissioner
Saunders for proposing it. It's desperately needed. Thank
you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Austin Beach,
and he will be followed by Monica Fish. Austin? Mr.
Beach?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. Monica Fish, and
she will be followed by Gary Kluckhuhn. I hope I'm saying
that right, sir.
MR. KLUCKHUHN: Yes.
MS. FISH: So I'm a Golden Gate Estate resident of 16
years. And I'm coming into Naples early this afternoon. I
experienced people run red lights, switch lanes without
signaling, not slowing, stopping for racing lit ambulances,
and I actually saw that, two cars.
Tonight it will be racing, passing recklessly, more
running lights, and I mean it, there's running lights
everywhere. Every time I'm on the roadway, it's a running
light, and it's so scary.
Accidents are out of control. I'm a part of the
Facebook, you know, Golden Gate Estates, and it's just like,
are you serious? Are you serious? Are you serious?
And when I'm driving down the road, I mean, to see
these cars that are, like, upside -- collided down on their
backs. And then this thing that just happened in Immokalee
off -- on Immokalee Road, I mean, I have to, like, say the
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rosary as I'm going down Immokalee. Because I work in
Central Florida, and so when I am driving home late at
night, and I'm going the rural way going on Immokalee
Road to head to Golden Gate to Everglades, I'm scared for
my life, absolutely scared, scared, because these people
drive superfast. They go right behind you, and then they go
around you.
And then they're looking at a car, and they're about to
just, like, smack into each other. I do not know why they
are allowed to do this year after year after year. I think that
there should be more officers back in dark area, like kind of
Ave Maria area.
I like how Commissioner Saunders talked about
cumulative effects. Similar to the wetlands dilemma,
government keeps giving waivers away to destroy the
wetlands. Soon there's going to be no wetlands; there's
going to be no green area. I think green area is very
important because it is a psychological thing. I mean, I've
been here for, like, 16 years so, I mean, I experienced a
forest when I was in Golden Gate Estates. Now it's a
terrible -- like, kind of a sprawly looking place, and it is
true. It is disgusting.
People are coming. They're getting rid of their yards,
and then they're putting their business stuff in, like, all their
scrap and all -- whatever the scrap metal and such. And
they're working. And it's, like, nonstop noise.
People that moved in that area were, like, I love the
nature, I like the quiet, the rural, thatness. I can't even bike
on my street anymore, so -- and I don't really like to go all
the way down to Picayune because it's kind of boring there.
I like to be in nature. That's why I got that house, so I could
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be in nature there. So now I've had to start buying
properties to try to prevent people from, you know, getting
rid of it.
I want wildlife. It's very important to me, and I know
a lot of people want wildlife.
I get development.
Some of the solutions really quickly; I think sheriffs,
police officers, should just sit their cars in the medians and
get some people to actually just be more law abiding. They
do do that over in the Golden Gate Estates area. So it's just
like an officer's car; nobody's in it, but, actually, people slow
down. They do that all over central Florida. Should I
stop?
CHAIRMAN HALL: Just wind it up.
MS. FISH: Okay. Electronic messages, like stop
texting. Grady does that well in Polk County. Like, he
does, like, funny little sayings and such.
And I just think that there should be more traffic
officers driving within the public, just being a part of it.
Like, they should just have somebody that's just driving so
you see their officers’ cars. Because, again, people will be
more law abiding when they see an officer.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you.
MS. FISH: Okay. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gary Kluckhuhn.
He'll be followed by Richard Conover.
MR. KLUCKHUHN: Thank you, guys, for working
this late hour. I remember the last time I was in here, about
a year ago, January 10th, we were here till about 9:30.
And I've talked to a couple of you about it, the zoning,
the rezoning on Isles of Capri that took place and increased
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the density and the burden on that infrastructure and the
high-rises. Everyone that spoke, as you guys recall, was in
opposition to it from the community, and, of course,
Mr. Hall pointed out very clearly to me that I didn't know
what I wanted, we didn't know what we want, we don't
know what we need, we don't know what's in our best
interest. That's a quote; we've got it written. And I was
told I'd get thrown out or -- basically, when they said what's
the problem, and I blurted out density, and I blurted out
pretty loud, and Mr. LoCastro told me that didn't work
favorably for my cause.
Well, that is the cause. Density, that's the issue here.
And a moratorium -- I lived at Tahoe. In '75, we had a
moratorium on building. And you balance it. You work
with it. But the solution, you don't need -- you're not
obligated to give someone a rezoning. That's not a property
right.
The gentleman over there the other day told I
had -- I've got no skin in the game. The developer has all
the money invested. You got no skin. Well, hell, I
got -- everything I got's invested in this community, in this
town.
And I've been a builder/developer all my life in the real
estate business, and I have a suggestion that we seriously
consider air rights above the commercial space where there's
already paving, such as the Coastland Mall or the shops
down on Manatee Road and 951. We could go with the
zoning that's there, and we -- senior housing, the underlying
zoning privileges -- for example, you go senior housing,
you've got no density limitation to speak of. And in
commercial you can go high, and you only have one parking
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space for every two units.
So there -- the density issue, a developer/builder can
manipulate or use it to his advantage to accomplish that he
wants to get done, and we can. With the zoning we've got
in place, we can accomplish what we need. Getting into
these air rights and perhaps a consideration for affordable
workforce housing in a 20-story building -- why not?
They've got 20-story buildings on the beach -- we could get
a lot of -- we could solve a lot of the housing and
transportation go along. We could develop 10,000
affordable housing units above commercial spaces within all
the zoning, all the approvals, minimum burden on the
infrastructure.
And I'd like to propose that we look at some of these
solutions. The bottom line is, also, we need the river of
grass in its entirety. We need the wetlands in it to give this
cloud cover that we used to get, and we'll talk more about
that. But the Board, politically, could help influence the
governor and the president to get the river of grass, get sugar
out. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Richard
Conover. He'll be followed by Brooke Beardsley.
MR. CONOVER: Thank you. Commissioners,
thanks for having this meeting tonight. It's important to
hear from the people.
Commissioner Hall, you did mention a couple days
ago, the traffic is the traffic is the traffic, and it is. It is the
traffic. I agree with you, the moratorium isn't going to
change our traffic situation. But this moratorium on
rezoning, it is a symbolic measure on the commissioners'
part to show us, the citizens, because we are the citizens.
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We are the voice. We are the citizens, we are the citizens,
we are the citizens.
We want you to hold up your end of the bargain with
us. The Growth Management Plan was put in place for a
reason, and it's a plan to follow. It's not a new plan. It's
not a living document. It's a plan that was put into place to
manage our growth.
I come from the northeast, and rezoning is such an
absurd concept to me. I worked for a billboard company,
and my job was to find eligible real estate where we could
put the dreaded trash on a stick. Billboards were the blight
of everything everywhere. And to get a variance or a
rezone, man, we had to make the bar so high. And to look
at what goes on in our county where it seems as
though -- maybe it isn't -- but it seems like a rubber stamp.
Like, I can just come in with a bunch of money and say, hey,
I'm going to -- I need to buy up four of these residential lots
and turn them into a high-density apartment complex. I'll
pretend or I'll say it's affordable housing, which is one of the
most nebulous concepts that I have heard. What is
affordable housing in Collier County? What's the number?
How are you going to enforce someone to rent an apartment
for a certain amount of money?
We talked about property rights. I live on 7th Avenue
Northwest. I bought a three-acre parcel with my wife with
a home on it. These are low-density residential lots.
They're at Vanderbilt Beach Road and Collier Boulevard.
Part of the reason I'm here today is because the rampant
rezoning, the rubber stamping of allowing just anybody to
come in and rezone residential lots either to commercial or
high density, has emboldened a local charter school, Mason
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Classical Academy, to come into my neighborhood and try
to purchase four residential properties at a bargain, at maybe
a fifth of the going price. And while it's not a rezoning
issue, it's not something that you folks have any control
over, they've been emboldened by your rubber stamp.
So I'm here today to ask you folks to do what is right,
to listen to the people, follow the Growth Management Plan,
and lay off rubber stamping rezoning. It doesn't need to
happen.
And, again, you know, it's not going to solve all of our
problems, but this is a matter of integrity, gentlemen. It's a
matter of keeping your promise to the people who voted for
you. And I can tell you, each one of you, the next election,
we're going to act in Collier County, like, we all vote for all
the commissioners all the time. And if you don't do what
we need you to do, we're going to vote you out one way or
another.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Brooke
Beardsley. Brooke Beardsley?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. I see no one responding.
Amy Kurtz, and Amy will be followed by Kathleen
Curatolo.
MS. KURTZ: I'm back. Good evening. Thank you,
Commissioner Saunders, for allowing this meeting to
happen. It's a little overdue, but it's better late than never.
I was going to say, everybody's kind of said what I
wanted to say except for a couple of things.
Just saying yes to every developer isn't a must. Let's
take a pause. As you know, we were talking about
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apartments. My street is going to have -- go from 45 homes
to 208 apartments. We're smack dab in the middle due to a
rubber stamping which is -- in my opinion, it's just
ridiculous, but that's a done deal.
But let's take a pause and see what happens. What
transpires when these, you know, 500, 600 people move in
on Vanderbilt Beach Drive, and they have to do U-turns and
pull in front of Island Walk? And then when we have
Mason Classical Academy right down the road with no
buses so every parent has to drop off their kid and pick them
up on 951 and Vanderbilt Beach Drive, let's see how that
works, and then maybe we can decide what other building
can occur.
Stick with the Growth Management Plan. Is it a joke?
I mean, if it is a joke, let's revise it. Let's amend it. Let's
own up that the Growth Management Plan in Collier County
doesn't mean a hill of beans. It just -- it's not working.
You don't -- you don't abide by it, and it's caused a lot of
trouble.
Being here 38 years almost, seeing one gated
community, another gated community with no side roads,
one entrance, one exit, is scary, and we watched it all
happen being here this long. There's no -- Pelican Marsh
was built. I'm like, well, certainly they're going to put in a
road in between that goes between Airport and 41. Nope,
no road.
You have to -- you have Immokalee. You have
Vanderbilt. That's it. Maybe we should interconnect some
of these developments. Maybe we could interconnect
Island Walk with Heritage Green. I don't know. I know
everyone's worried about security and safety, but maybe
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that -- that might be something helpful to think about putting
pathways or something in there, let the kids ride their bike
through if parents allow that. I mean, that's about all I want
to say.
And, you know, let's just do the right thing. Let's think
about the people. Let's think about our future in Collier
County.
I'm moving. I'm done. I've seen it. I've lived it. I'm
gone. But let's make it good for everybody else. Thank
you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kathy Curatolo.
She'll be followed by Donald Schneck.
MS. CURATOLO: Good evening, Commissioners,
Kathy Curatolo. I represent the Collier Building Industry
Association. Ninety percent of the companies that I
represent are small businesses, folks who live and work in
this community.
First and foremost, I want to thank you for this
evening's town hall meeting. I'm very impressed. I'm
encouraged. I'm enthusiastic about the transportation ideas
that have been presented this evening.
When you talk moratorium, it's very frightening to my
members. I think we need to be very clear, very committed
to an understanding of what privately initiated GMP
amendments are. How many have we had in 2023? What
effect do they have on the process of construction in our
community and how they affect transportation?
I personally have lived in this community since 1997.
I would be more than happy to serve doing research to some
of the ideas that were presented this evening and work with
our community, our commissioners, and those folks who
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work in the industry to work on some of these transportation
issues.
Thank you so much for allowing me to speak this
evening.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Donald Schneck.
He'll be followed by Gerry Manning.
MR. SCHNECK: Thank you, Commissioners.
I look at this after a 45-year career in transportation,
and I look at the issues from a transportation planning
perspective.
When you look at the study area, you're drawn
immediately to Immokalee and 75. You have a long-range
plan for 75. I look at the intersection of Immokalee, and I
see when you prioritize and run the traffic signals, you're
looking -- it looks like you're prioritizing each individual
traffic signal. And what that's doing is that's slowing down
the most important throughput of traffic, the
straight-throughs. And when you don't do that, you slow
them down, stop them; you're congesting everything else.
So you've got to prioritize the throughputs, steal time from
the side streets, and get that moving.
I really enjoy your idea of introducing the diamond
intersections. That's a very good idea. When you do that,
try maybe not to impose or obviate the potential for doing
what you did on Golden Gate Boulevard there at Airport
where you put an overpass on just in case things get so bad
that could be a long-term option.
But you need to look at things from a network
standpoint. Someone doing traffic signals is looking at
them independently, and you're not optimizing the
throughput movements.
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If I look at key times on Immokalee and Collier, you've
got three lanes turning left there, and what they do is they
get off Immokalee and go down to Vanderbilt Beach Road,
and they just make that bad. So the issue is improving the
throughput on Immokalee, and that's really what you need to
do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you retired?
MR. SCHNECK: No. I'm the federal government's
risk manager for the worst projects.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Get his contact
information, please.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gerry Manning.
He'll be followed by Laurence Hulbert.
MR. MANNING: Hi. I'm Gerry Manning. I live
at -- in Old Cypress, 7399 Monte Verde Way, and you
probably know that we're going to have a roundabout now
coming out of Logan and our community, and it's going to
be a real exercise in learning, because people coming off of
Immokalee taking a right or taking a left and coming into
our roundabout that's immediately outside of our
development -- I mean, I know what roundabouts are about,
and I've lived in them and around them for a long time, but a
lot of people are going to have a lot of trouble with this.
Hopefully it will work out, and we won't have more
accidents clogging that way. I just wanted to say, first of
all, thank you very much for bringing this moratorium to our
attention and that we can offer our opinion. I'm in favor of
it.
A moratorium without a real concept about what you
want this community -- what we want this community to be
like in the next several years, many years, decades is a huge
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discussion. We understand that there will be maybe
20 million people moving into South Florida in the next 20
years. I'm not going to be here. I'm almost 80 years old.
I'll be 80 in July, so -- but a lot of people are going to be
here, and kids are going to be here, and grandkids are going
to be here.
If a surgeon was looking at our corridor, they would
say we are a heart attack waiting to happen. We've got
clogged arteries, and the only way to save this patient is to
do bypass surgery.
Well, bypass surgery means condemning land so you
can put in other roadways, and that's a problem. That's
going to be a problem for drainage. That's going to be a
problem for communities. That's going to be a problem for
landowners who do not want to give up their property to a
condemnation, which you will have to do in order to put
these roadways in. It's a tremendous problem.
My feeling is that right now what we can do, what we
should do, we, as taxpayers -- I think it's -- Conservation
Collier has a certain amount of money. There are
properties along the corridor that could be purchased and
retired, and there are properties that could be developed for
community necessary services.
But I understand profit motive. I've been a
businessman all my life. I'm an entrepreneur. I've been a
miner in Australia. Believe me, we have more
environmental constraints in Australia than we even
dreamed of having here.
But I just want to say that I think that you guys are
presented with a tremendous problem. And the thought
process that you're going to have to put through is not just
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for now, not just for 10 years from now, but it's for a very
long-term problem that we're going to have in this country
and in this state.
So thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity
to be here.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your final registered
speaker for this item is Laurence Hulbert.
MR. HULBERT: Thank you, all. I appreciate the
opportunity to speak before you, and thank you for taking
the time to listen to us.
I have no idea where each one of you-all stands on this
issue. And what I'd like to ask you to do as you consider
how you're going to move forward is to answer these
questions: Where's the fire if you're against this proposal?
Why not have a moratorium? I'm asking that question.
What would be the overriding positives of voting not to have
the moratorium?
Secondly, what would be the harm created by voting
for Commissioner Saunders' proposal? I'd like to know,
and I hope you know. I hope that you'll be able to articulate
that.
Finally, I want to sincerely thank all the commissioners
for your service, for your time. And I've lived in about five
different counties, and I want to thank you for not only the
work you do and the leadership you provide, but you have
the most outstanding staff I've ever had the opportunity to
work with, no question. They're so helpful. They honestly
have the attitude that we're here to serve, and they do. So
thank you, all.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, that was your final public
speaker for this item.
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CHAIRMAN HALL: So do we want to open this for
discussion? How do you want to handle the -- let's handle
the moratorium discussion first, and then we'll move to the
40 million question.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: On the moratorium,
and as I said at the beginning, this is not a solution to a
problem. It's not even close to a solution to the traffic
problem, and as several speakers have said, if we vote to
advertise an ordinance and come back for a public hearing
on an ordinance to impose a moratorium for a year, traffic
isn't going to change one little bit, but what it will do is a
couple things, and I think they're important. One is it will
send a message to the community, to our citizens, that we do
care about the problem, we do care about the issues that they
face as they are trying to enter and exit their communities,
and we want to take a pause so we can try to implement
additional solutions to help solve that problem.
It will not slow growth, it will not stop development,
but it will send a message to the community, and it will also
send a message to speculators that are purchasing
single-family residential lots with the understanding that at
some point in time they can turn that into a high-density
residential project or into a commercial project. We need to
send a message that our zoning is important, that we are not
a rubber stamp.
I will say -- and this is a little difficult for me to say,
but I have kind of found these rezones and these
Comprehensive Plan changes, they kind of sneak up on you.
They're site specific. Oh, what's the harm in this particular
development? But then you start adding them up. And
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what we're doing is we are basically destroying our
Comprehensive Plan one parcel at a time, and I think we
need to take a pause and stop -- stop the bleeding.
And so, Mr. Chairman, that's why I'm going to make a
motion to -- at some point. I don't need to make the motion
right now. But I will make a motion to direct the County
Attorney to advertise and come back with an ordinance to
impose the moratorium as has been described in the
executive summary that I presented, the moratorium for one
year on site-specific land-use changes -- Comprehensive
Plan changes as outlined in that executive summary. So
that's why I've brought this forward.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Early I had a
discussion -- I saw some maps yesterday, and I think if we
have the capacity -- Mr. Bosi, Mr. French, do we have the
capacity to show those maps that we were shown yesterday
about the impacted properties that are out there, or no?
MR. FRENCH: Will of the Board, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because I think it's
important for the community to see the corridors so that the
moratorium, impositions, looking at the impacted properties
that are on those sites or on those segments of roadway and
how many property owners are actually impacted by this.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Troy.
Good evening, Commissioners. For the record, my
name's Jamie French. I'm the department head for the
Growth Management/Community Development department.
With me this evening is our Planning and Zoning
director, Mr. Michael Bosi, as well as in the back of the
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room we have Ms. Jaime Cook that performs the function of
director for environmental and -- development and review.
And new to our staff, Mr. Bert Miller. Bert has got a
diverse background both in GIS, as a former GIS
professional, and currently reinstating his AICP planning,
but he was one of the first planners in Maricopa County,
Arizona, and he's worked all over the country on stormwater
and stormwater planning, and he's part of our long-range
planning and resiliency group under Chris Mason.
But, Commissioners, just taking a look -- and staff just
really looked at those corridors identified within the
moratorium that's being mentioned. And so we simply just
ran what -- under the Property Appraiser data and what was
made available based on nongovernment-owned properties
that weren't currently within a Planned Unit Development,
and these were an aggregate of Estates properties as well as
mobile home agriculture type properties, and it was pretty
diverse range. Some are not developable, meaning by size.
So when you've got some that are illustrated on
here -- and I'll show you another caption of really what the
impact of some of the already zoned properties would look
like, these are -- in the shaded areas, these are all those
previously zoned areas. So we just kind of opaqued it to
show you what's currently out there.
Now, this is not a representation of what was approved
and what has already been built. This is simply what was
left out. And these are the vacant parcels that would be
impacted by those.
Now, as Commissioner Saunders and I spoke
yesterday, this would not preclude a developer who wanted
to assemble land to put these lands together, perhaps buy the
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doughnut, the center of the doughnut or the hole in the
doughnut that could very well have a home on it, that could
already have a development that could put these properties
together. But all in all, it's about 57 parcels, and some of
them are under common ownership.
And you can see there's a couple parcels. Like on
Parcel No. 23, we understand that that is owned by the
Diocese of Venice, and we've been in talks with them over
numerous years about what they intend to do with the
property.
And so we don't -- we never want to say -- as
Commissioner LoCastro said, nothing's in perpetuity, but we
don't believe that the Diocese of Venice would ever be
compelled to sell that property for development, and that's
right there at the corner of Wilson and Immokalee Road.
But all in all, we're -- about 57 parcels have an
aggregate amount of just under 217 acres.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Does that include
Parcel 23?
MR. FRENCH: That would be inclusive. We only
shaded it out, but it is under -- looking at that data --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. We
have to take it into consideration because it's there. I
understand it.
MR. FRENCH: Right. And so here's really kind of a
blowup of the map legend that exists within those maps.
And we've got this in several different layers.
I can tell you, Commissioner, realistically, when you
put me in this position all the way back in 2010, the one
thing we've done is we have enhanced our data to a point
where our margin of error is probably way less than
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10 percent, maybe just over 5.
We run a very transactional-based software and
development program that this board purchased many years
ago, and we have enhanced that to a point where they're
actually able to sell more software because of the
enhancements we've made and the data we're able to
capture.
So I can tell you the effects of COVID. I can tell you
what was built, what the intended uses were.
Unfortunately, with some of the state preemptions that are
out there, some of your speakers spoke of this evening with
regards to businesses that have moved to the Estates,
Vacation Rental by Owner, we're preempted. We don't
track that. That's not available data to us, and it doesn't
come through your permitting software.
But this is what we have demonstrated to the Board
before, and I think this is what you were talking about,
Commissioner McDaniel, with regards to residential homes
that we have seen developed. These are homes that
received a certificate of occupancy where -- whether they're
a year-round resident. We did not look to see if they were
homestead or not. We know they were built. There was
service provided to them. There's an FP&L meter they
can -- for lack of a better term, they can flush toilets and
make ice. So they can occupy -- they can occupy these
structure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sooner or later,
somebody's going to be in one of those houses?
MR. FRENCH: Thirty seconds or 30 days or 30 years,
it's irrelevant to us with regards to the Florida Building Code
and the way we do -- and the way we perform the zoning
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action under that state law.
And you can see, over the last 10 years -- and it's
certainly been enhanced during the COVID years where we
saw a migration of homes and we saw more activity in those
Estates. Clearly, in the way this map is demonstrated,
almost like a heat map, as I've demonstrated to this board
before, we're starting to see a great deal of urban sprawl on
those lots that exist currently in Golden Gate Estates. And
of about 24- or 25,000 platted lots that exist that are east of
951, we've seen a significant change in that number of
what's available left to build. And so this would
demonstrate your commercial compared to your residential.
From the economic development side, we recognize
that businesses are going to chase rooftops. No different
than you have items coming before you. Look at the
Planning Commission next Thursday. What we're going to
see is we're going to see additional commercial come
forward as those residential units come online where they
can pencil out the number.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Jamie, you've got the same
slide.
MR. FRENCH: I'm sorry. So it is significantly
different, especially when we're seeing those eastern lands
start to be more occupied both by PUDs and both by these
residential already entitled properties to where the behavior
is being forced to drive east to west to receive goods and
services, doctors' appointments, jobs.
And although we're seeing Publix or a gas station come
out in these -- to this community, this is where we've
talked -- and Mr. Bosi can certainly speak of this, but this is
where we've talked about the villages and why we put those
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requirements on there that they provided enough
commercial to not only support their community that they
intend to -- that they intend to develop, but also those
neighboring communities so that we can perhaps change that
driving behavior from the west to the east now certainly to
try to impact that east-to-west direction.
And then, finally, here's your Golden Gate Estates
parcels that you asked for yesterday, and this -- I think this
was our conversation that you brought out because we've
provided this to the Board. This was today. So there's
approximately 8900 vacant parcels that are not in
government ownership that have not been built that are
greater than 1.13 acres.
Now, that does not take into effect if I've got a five-acre
lot, I can split it. If I've got a 10-acre lot, I can split it a
couple times and come before the Board and create a
division by the Land Development Code. But there are
alternatives, but this is simply vacant properties under the
Property Appraiser data, and this is directly out of their data
today, and this is what we ran this evening.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's about 9,000 of
those left that are still yet undeveloped, if I can see that from
here.
MR. FRENCH: And I apologize, again. This was
kind of a last-minute chart.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus or minus.
MR. FRENCH: But in comparison to 2022, there was
about -- almost 9600 vacant lots. So that's a big number.
And especially during the COVID years where we tracked,
all and all, we were averaging probably around 24,000
inspections per month, building inspections, and right
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around 60,000 building permits per year.
And so what we've seen year over year now, because of
scarcity of commodities, cost of commodities, scarcity and
cost of labor, we've actually seen about a 23 percent
decrease from COVID year to current still tracking about 1
to 2 percent higher if we removed that anomaly. So we're
still on an upward swing but, as Mr. Bosi would tell you, is
that if you look at your annual population growth, your
annual population growth compared to previous years is
now below 2 percent on an aggregate level year over year.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. FRENCH: And we're available to answer any
questions that this board might have.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's wonderful
information.
I do have one quick question for Trinity, if I can, and
then we can move into deliberations and discussions.
For records sake, for my brain, to what capacity do we
build our road systems from a level-of-service standpoint?
MS. SCOTT: We build to a Level of Service E.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Which, for
non-educated people...
MS. SCOTT: Depends on the specific roadway --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Which is me, by the
way.
MS. SCOTT: -- for a six-lane facility, is we look at
p.m. peak hour/peak direction, so afternoon, typically that's
an eastbound direction, is roughly 3,000 to 3500 vehicles
per hour.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On a six-lane
facility?
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MS. SCOTT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is there -- and the
adage that comes to my mind is we don't build a church for
Easter Sunday. We build a church for the regular
accommodations and then suffer from overcrowding on
Easter Sunday.
So our capacities on our road systems are naturally
going to be constrained during a.m. and peak p.m. traffic
times. We don't build our road systems to accommodate
those influxes of traffic.
MS. SCOTT: We definitely don't build our roads for
those large influxes, particularly right now for seasonal
traffic. We are -- we are building to have just enough
capacity to move the vehicles during our off-season time
frames.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So what you're saying is during
season it's super compounded?
MS. SCOTT: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: You know what you
should add, though, to that, Trinity -- it makes it sound like
that's just what we do. FDOT does that in the whole state
of Florida, and every state's transportation agency follows
that exact same model. So we didn't invent it here in
Collier. We're not dumb or stupid or any of -- and I know
you know that.
But we sit in this room a lot with FDOT for hours,
when this room's empty with [sic] citizens, and we have that
exact same conversation, and that's directed by them.
So I don't want any -- you know, I want to make sure
that, you know, we're speaking clearly to the citizens who
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are listening, and maybe they're listening and following this
for the very first time. And, rightly so, they're unhappy
with traffic and built construction and whatnot. But there's
an awful lot that got talked about at the podium here that
actually we can't legally do.
I wrote down all the things here that people said that
actually are either untrue or we aren't able to do it. And,
you know, I think you would confirm that with FDOT. I
think they've sat in here for hours and told us that exact
same thing. We build for traffic to move in the off-season,
and then on Easter Sunday the church is overflowed.
And that's -- that's their direction. We can't change
that.
MS. SCOTT: And there's -- sir, there's reasons why
we do that. It's a cost standpoint as well of -- you know, to
build new roadways or to widen these roadways further
would be very costly to the taxpayers. Also, from a
long-term maintenance strategy, whatever we build, we have
to maintain. We have to resurface, too. So you don't want
a lot of pavement sitting out there that, you know,
three-quarters of the year isn't being used.
So those are all decisions that have gone in all through
the years on why those decisions were made, and why that's
what we follow. And you're right, that's what major
communities follow, our surrounding communities as well.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Great.
Well, you know, to Commissioner LoCastro's point, the
public seems to think that, well, they don't count traffic
during season because they're trying to skew the numbers.
That's simply not true. We're trying to do things as smart as
we can, the way that we're told to do things, and for the
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long-range planning.
And with that, I want to address a few things. I
listened really diligently tonight. And one of the main
themes of everyone's comments were, it gives us time. It
gives us time to study. It gives us time to mitigate. It
gives us time to take a look and to reassess.
And whether we do a moratorium or not, nothing is
bothering our time to do any of that. If we put a halt on
applications, we still have the time to do everything we ever
wanted to do. We're not constrained on time.
And another thing was mentioned a lot about the
powerful builders and the ones that have all of the money.
You know, I don't care if you have an application and you're
a billionaire or you've got $200 in your pocket. I'm not
looking at you. I'm not looking whether you're from here or
whether you're not. I'm looking at what the public benefit
is for the application and for the applicant.
Commissioners, you know, we have a Growth
Management Plan. Why don't you stick to it? Well, if you
think about the words, there's growth; that means we are
going to grow. There's management; it means we have the
responsibility to manage that growth and do it well. And
then there's plan. We have to have a plan, which we do, in
place.
So I agree with a lot of the comment about stick with
the Growth Management Plan. I totally -- I understand it.
I get it.
Commissioners, why are you so -- why are you reactive
and not proactive? Well, let me tell you why. The traffic
that we have today and the growth that we have experienced
today are not our decisions. They were made 10, 15 years
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ago, so that's why we're reactive. The proactive part is
where we can go forth and do it and do it smarter.
But the moratorium as far as traffic -- we heard a lot
about traffic. People running red lights, people not
obeying -- people backing up into the intersections, crashes.
You know, yes, all that's true.
Commissioner, you said the traffic is the traffic is the
traffic. It is. It's what we have to deal with. And by what
Ms. Scott brought forth today and some of the changes that
we can implement, we can help that. But a moratorium's
not going to make a hill of beans different in the traffic
today, tomorrow, or a year from now. It's just not going to
make a difference.
The assumption that if we don't do a moratorium is that
we rubber stamp -- that's another term we heard a lot.
We're going to rubber stamp stuff. I can tell you right now,
as this commissioner for District 2, I'm not rubber stamping
anything.
The real message that we can send to the public is to
the people who are assuming that they can come in and ask
for a rezone and get it. That's the message. We deny some
of that stuff that's asking for high density that just doesn't
make good sense. That's the message that we can send.
But a moratorium -- I understand what Commissioner
Saunders is saying as far as the message to the public, but
the real message is the truth, that we don't have to -- we're
not -- the Bible says that we owe no man but love, and that's
it. We don't owe them rezoning.
There was a project that was coming today. I'm going
to say it publicly. I am not in favor of it from the density.
That project may change. We'll see.
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But while we are talking also about getting -- you
know, 40,000 people come in Collier County every day,
40,000 people leave. And there's been discussions on how
we can -- we can lessen that if we can get the workforce or
some of those people that are traveling that road, if they can
live here locally, to lessen the commute, and that does make
a lot of sense. And I can see in theory how that would work
over time.
But what I don't understand is if we have a project that
has 200 homes, and 30 percent of them are going to be
affordable, so how we're going to take 60 people off of the
road, but we're going to add 140. So we're going to
increase to decrease, and I don't follow that logic at all.
We had some surtax discussion this morning offering a
company to do 100 percent affordable homes. That's the
kind of smart growth that we can do.
So, you know, I welcome the discussion. If you have
any questions, Commissioners, I'll entertain them.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You know,
Laurence, you brought up a couple of good questions that
I've been arguing with myself about with this evening's
hearing. I'm -- for those who don't know, I'm not in favor
of a moratorium.
I have concerns about litigation for the community with
regard to it. I have concerns about -- even though my
County Attorney told me very clearly yesterday that this
board can do pretty much anything we want until the judge
says we can't, I don't want to, on purpose, walk into
litigation.
We haven't talked tonight about the enormous efforts
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and re-prioritization of infrastructure for our grid system in
the east. I would like, tonight, for us to have a discussion.
I don't know if you fellows are coming or not, but I know
myself, I'm going to Washington, D.C., in the latter part of
April. I'm endeavoring to schedule a meeting with the
Federal Department of Transportation.
I would like support from this board to be able to move
forward the opening of the partial interchange at Everglades
Boulevard and I-75. I've lived here for 42 years, ladies and
gentlemen. Short of Mary Tatigian, some of you, you folks
are all new growth to me.
And so we're suffering on a regular basis from good
growth and bad growth. Growth is inevitable. Our goal
has to be to endeavor to manage it.
I got hung out by that young fellow -- and I'm pointing
at you, young lady, that lives in Ventana out there. I got
hung out by that guy. He came to me, big, long sob story,
told me all kinds of poor-me things, and I agreed -- because
typically you're allowed one or two units per TDR within
the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District, and I agreed to allow
him increased density at, I think, two-and-a-half units per
TDR. But we got some really environmentally sensitive
lands that he went and bought, so I traded it for the
environmental sensitivity side. But the next thing I know,
he dumped that piece of property off to Pulte, you're living
there now, and he moved back to Tampa. He was one of
those people -- I was misled by that -- by that argument, and
I can only say out loud that it won't happen twice.
I think we have to remember we have a choice to
accept the positives and the negatives that come with this
inevitable growth. There's been a lot of discussion tonight
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about that Ascend project that we approved over on
Vanderbilt, on the west side next to the cemetery. I think,
Gary, you and I were talking about it.
We're sitting here looking at a developer that owns a
piece of land. The uninitiated believe that it can only be
developed for seven homes, seven single-family homes, and
we approved 200 units. And the folks in Island Walk are
still mad at me about approving that development.
What did I get? A development that's going to
produce up to 400 trips, enhanced setbacks, I got enhanced
buffering, I got a fire hydrant on 7th to help the residents
with their fire protection over there, I got control and
no -- no access out onto Cherry Wood off of -- out of that
development, I think maybe except for an emergency access
that was in there, but no ingress and egress.
What you folks didn't see was, by right, a charter
school -- and we're now facing it for --
MR. CONOVER: Over here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There you are. For
the --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mason.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- folks over on the
west side -- or the east side of Vanderbilt for a school by
right can come in there with a Site Development Plan. No
control on access, no control on setbacks, no control on
anything, and plunk a school in there. And all we can do is
suggest by state law -- all we can do is suggest by state law
that they try to manage their traffic and manage their
internal circulation and keep the -- keep the parents that are
coming in there.
And the current model for a school is a thousand kids
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in a pile, K through 12 in one building.
And so on the Ascend project, I'm sitting here weighing
up to 400 trips with the enhancements, with the traffic
control, with the additional buffering, so on and so forth, or I
was staring at 4,000 trips. That's what you're going to see
when Mason Academy comes in there on that east side, and
we have nothing to say. We have nothing to say about that.
Now, what this board did do today in our earlier
session is this board agreed with me to give direction to staff
to amend our GMP and amend our LDC, Land Development
Code, to force the charter schools that, to date, we've been
treating as a public school system, to come in as a
conditional use, at which point you have a say-so.
I personally believe we're at the beginning of the gold
rush. We were all happy about -- well, not all of us, but we
were -- a lot of us were happy with regard to the school
choice that was promoted in the last legislative session, the
voucher system that lets the money follow the child which
lets the parents better educate your children and put them
where they believe they need to be, but on the same token,
we have these charter schools flying at us right now.
And right now the model is K through -- K through 12
all in one building. Pretty soon we're going to see
elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools that
can be set on a different size footprint, considerably smaller,
and then all of Golden Gate Estates, irrespective of where
they are, those smaller footprints, those vacant lots are
availed for a school today by right. And that's an important
factor that folks need to bring into consideration, that we
have to weigh with regard to the property rights that already
currently exist when we're making a change.
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Now, I do concur with Commissioner Saunders, a
message needs to be sent that we don't have to approve
every single thing that comes along, but I also believe that
moving towards taking of the property rights on some 47
property owners that are along there that have to come to us,
that have to propose that they're going to -- that their density
increase is good for the greater good in relationship
to -- right here, that map that's up there right now, there's
9,000 rooftops that could come in that are going to increase
the traffic on the road systems that are already exacerbated.
Now, I would highly recommend and support a hearing
to review all of the suggestions. That one nice lady -- there
she is in the back. She had eight or nine different ideas.
Some of them were kind of out there, but I'd like to -- I'd
like to review.
MS. OCZKOWSKI: They were ideas.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Those -- some of
those were really, really good ideas. I'd like to review
them. We have had discussions in the past when folks have
come to us and brought ideas, and I'd like those to be
weighed. I'd like those to be vetted. I'd like those to be
discussed. How much is plausible?
Some of -- there was -- there was one fellow that talked
about -- and Trinity said, we're finally getting around to
doing some re-striping on Immokalee Road. Finally.
Those are things -- what can we do now to assist?
I'd like -- I'd like to have our Sheriff's Department here.
There's no argument that we live in one of the safest
communities in this country, but our -- we need to engage
with our Sheriff's Department. We need some way for the
community -- I mean, today I had to go out to Tractor
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Supply on the East Trail, so I had to go around by the bus
station on the other side there. That traffic signal might not
could have even been there. People coming on the
westbound side of 41 heading into town, they were lined up
in front of me five cars deep through that intersection.
There was that one lady that lives out in the Estates was
talking about the poor driving habits of our community.
I'd like to engage with the Sheriff. I'd like to find a
way so that those of us that drive our roads all day every day
have an opportunity to report hot spots on a nonemergency
line so that when you're involved with something like that,
that will better help our already limited law enforcement
agency to hit these locations to prohibit that type of clogging
that, in fact, transpires.
The 40-some, 50-some-odd parcels of land, if you
apply the maximum density, if those folks were to endeavor
to rezone those lands -- some of them are so small an
assemblage would have to be accommodated. But if you
applied a maximum density with the affordable housing
density bonuses, we're talking about, round numbers, around
5,000 total units on those -- if my -- if my math is correct.
There's 9,000 right there, and we haven't got into the
rural villages that are already approved to the east, the rural
villages coming up on Immokalee Road.
I would rather we focus our energies on prioritizing the
available infra- -- the available tax dollars for the
infrastructure for the folks that we already have, and that's
the improvement of the grid system in the east. That's the
opening of I-75 and Everglades Boulevard. That's the
four-laning of Everglades Boulevard farther to the east from
Oil Well down to Golden Gate Boulevard to give alternative
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routes.
There was an accident tonight. While I was sitting
here, one of my friends sent me a text not too awful far from
where you folks live out there at Ventana, and there was an
accident there and traffic's stopped up, head-on. All you
need's one accident, and we're all sitting there talking to one
another.
You can't -- you know, there's not enough signage to
control people to make good decisions while they're driving,
but enforcement's an important component that I think we
need to be having in order for us to address the immediacy
of the need to have better traffic flow within our community.
I'm totally in support of the advancing of the funding
for the diverging diamond at I-75. I really want to get
specifics, because you flipped through your chart -- I'm
looking at Trinity. She's hiding from me on the other side
over there. I really want to see the dates that were out
there, because the proposition for the eight-laning of I-75,
the diverging diamond at 951/Collier Boulevard, Pine Ridge
Road, those are going to be huge, huge components for the
mobility of our community at large. And I'd like to see the
date-certains on those.
So I've said enough for a minute.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
I have a couple questions for the County Attorney.
Commissioner McDaniel said that he was concerned about
litigation. My understanding is when we're dealing with a
comprehensive land-use change, that's a legislative function
of government, and we can say yay or nay to a legislative
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function like changing a Comp Plan with a reason or with no
reason. Is there liability -- potential liability in saying no to
a comprehensive land-use change?
MR. KLATZKOW: Provided you're not being
arbitrary and capricious, no; you can say no.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, that doesn't
quite answer the question.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, arbitrary and capricious
is -- I would say, okay, we're not going to vote for this
because we don't like you. It has nothing to do the merits
of your proposal.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So if there are
concerns of traffic and that sort of thing --
MR. KLATZKOW: Concerns of traffic, concerns of
density, concerns of compatibility, all are fine reasons to
turn down a Comprehensive Plan amendment request.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I think that that's
what they call kind of a red herring in terms of legitimate
reasons for a particular position.
We don't have a liability issue by imposing a
moratorium for one year. We don't have a liability issue if
we vote no on a comprehensive land-use change as long as
it's not totally arbitrary. I don't like the color of the tie
you're wearing today so, therefore, I'm going to vote against
this. So I don't think that that is a particularly legitimate
concern.
You said, Commissioner McDaniel, that if you did the
sort of the math, maybe it's 5,000 units. That's still a lot of
traffic. That's still a lot of units. And all I'm asking the
Board to do tonight -- and I'm going to make the motion.
I'm going to make it now -- that we direct the County
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Attorney to advertise a public hearing for a moratorium as
outlined in the executive summary and for that public
hearing to be advertised and brought back to this board.
We don't have to do that at a 5 o'clock hearing if there's
three votes to do that. But let's just go ahead and get that
issue off the table, because I do want to talk about these
improvements. So I'll make that motion. If that passes,
fine. If not, I'm going to -- I've got the subsequent motion
on these improvements. So, Mr. Chairman, that's the
motion.
CHAIRMAN HALL: So we have a motion to move
the moratorium to a public hearing. Is there a second?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: Motion fails on lack of a
second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Then let me make a
second motion, Mr. Chairman, and that is to take the
projects that were outlined by Trinity Scott, especially the
diverging diamond project, but also the project on
Vanderbilt Beach Road and Logan and there were several
others, the re-striping and those sort of things -- I'd like to
make a motion that the Board is committing the funding to
those projects and direct staff to work with DOT to advance
those projects.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I -- I'll second
the motion if I can talk to the motion maker.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Sure. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd like the motion
maker to give consideration to the input from the
community tonight and have that as part of that hearing with
regard to locales throughout the community.
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. So certainly
staff needs to -- I don't have any problem adding that to the
motion. Trinity -- Ms. Scott has already told me that she's
keeping copious notes and will be implementing some of
those suggestions, so that's certainly part of the motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And I'll
second.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. I have a question. If
we -- I'm all about it. I love the fact that we can get this
rolling because it's needed. But where's that money going
to come from?
MS. SCOTT: So, Commissioner, once again, Trinity
Scott.
Our first step in this will be going back to the Florida
Department of Transportation and having them sharpen their
pencil and get the final numbers and the timing for that, and
then we will come back and we will work with the County
Manager's Office, our Office of Management and Budget,
and our Finance Committee.
Most likely it will come through some sort of loan is
my guess and -- to be paid for. This is an
impact-fee-eligible improvement, so they will work through
our budget office and our Finance Committee, and we will
be bringing back those details, because there will be
agreements that will be necessary with the Florida
Department of Transportation and, like I said, a lot of that's
going to come down to timing.
They're not going to ask for $40 million, that we give
that to them in three months. That will most likely at least
be 12 months away and could be upward -- could be two
separate payments, if you will. So we need them to sharpen
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their pencil, and we will work on the funding strategies and
come back to the Board for that.
Amy, did you want to -- sorry. County Manager, did
you want to add anything else?
MS. PATTERSON: No. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All right. So we have a motion
and a second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask a quick
question?
When are you going to come back with those numbers?
Because it's important. I mean, I'm all -- I'm all about
supporting moving those initiatives forward, but we need to
be able to have some timelines as to where the money's
going to be able to come from to be able to make that
commitment.
MS. SCOTT: I want to be back before our budget
hearings. I'm going to light the fire under FDOT to sharpen
their pencils as soon as they can. I'll be contacting
Secretary Nandam first thing in the morning. I don't think
he wants me to call him tonight. But I'll give him a call
first thing in the morning and have him set his people on
their sprint so they can get the information back to us.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And did I
understand we're having a workshop on February 6th for the
AUIR and the budget -- budget initiatives?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Strategic planning, the
AUIR, and then it is a precursor to budget guidance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Okay. Any other questions,
comments?
(No response.)
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 220 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 209
CHAIRMAN HALL: A motion and a second. All in
favor to move it forward, say aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALL: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALL: None.
County Manager?
MS. PATTERSON: Sir, that's -- Commissioner
Saunders --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I just want
to thank our staff for -- especially Transportation tonight in
terms of putting together this program and the work that
they've been doing for the last, literally, almost two months
to come up with some potential solutions. I want to thank
the people that were here this evening to express their
positions. I think it was a very good hearing. I'm
disappointed in the outcome, but we'll move on.
Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: That's all we have,
Commissioner. That concludes our agenda for tonight.
CHAIRMAN HALL: Have a good evening. Safe
travels. We're finished.
*****
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 221 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 210
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
LoCastro and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 222 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 211
STAFF TO ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO CLARIFY
THE REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO MOBILE HOMES
LOCATED IN THE COASTAL HIGH HAZARD AREA AND TO
REMOVE DUPLICATIVE FLOODPLAIN PROTECTION
REGULATIONS THAT ARE CODIFIED IN THE COLLIER
COUNTY CODE OF LAWS OF ORDINANCES OR WITH THE
FLORIDA BUILDING CODE
Item #16A2
STAFF TO ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC
HEARING AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE, TO UPDATE CITATIONS AND
CORRECT SCRIVENER'S ERRORS
Item #16A3
RELEASE OF A CODE ENFORCEMENT LIEN WITH AN
ACCRUED VALUE OF $46,800 FOR A REDUCED
PAYMENT OF $1,704 IN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT
ACTION TITLED BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
V. LEONEL GARZA, ET AL., IN CODE ENFORCEMENT
BOARD CASE NO. CEPM20090017577, RELATING TO
PROPERTY LOCATED AT 111 S. 7TH ST., COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA – FOR FINES THAT ACCRUED FOR 234
DAYS
Item #16A4
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 223 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 212
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER
AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR FOXFIRE
CLUBHOUSE, PL20230015698 – FINAL INSPECTION BY
STAFF FOUND THESE FACILITIES SATISFACTORY AND
ACCEPTABLE ON NOVEMBER 15, 2023
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR GROVES AT ORANGE BLOSSOM PHASE 2A,
PL20230014003 - FINAL INSPECTION BY STAFF FOUND
THESE FACILITIES SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE ON
NOVEMBER 17, 2023
Item #16A6
RESOLUTION 2024-10: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDICATIONS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF
WILLOUGHBY PRESERVE, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20150000872 (PPL), AND PL20160003121 (PPLA), AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $142,023.82
Item #16A7 – Moved to Item #11C (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16A8
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 224 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 213
THE CONSERVATION COLLIER CAMP KEAIS PRESERVE
INTERIM MANAGEMENT PLAN 2-YEAR UPDATE UNDER
THE CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM – NO
SUBSTANTIAL REVISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE
CCLAAC
Item #16B1
AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO AGREEMENT NO. 20-7818, “DESIGN
SERVICES FOR UPPER GORDON RIVER IMPROVEMENTS,”
WITH JOHNSON ENGINEERING, INC., TO ADD DESIGN
SERVICES FOR SECTION A OF THE UPPER GORDON RIVER
PROJECT SCOPE OF SERVICES IN THE AMOUNT OF
$387,477.32, TO EXTEND THE TERM OF THE AGREEMENT
BY 1,441 DAYS, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN THE ATTACHED AMENDMENT (PROJECT #60102) –
FOR ENGINEERING SERVICES DESIGN OF SEVERAL
STRUCTURES AND ACTIONS, INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED TO CLEARING EXOTIC VEGETATION, BUILDING A
MAINTENANCE ACCESS TRAVEL WAY, DREDGING THE
RIVER CHANNEL, REINFORCING THE BANKS, AND
REPLACING AN EXISTING ROCK WEIR W/AUTOMATED
CONCRETE GATED WEIR
Item #16B2 – Moved to Item #17C (Correct Placement Per Agenda
Change Sheet)
Item #16B3
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 225 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 214
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE AMENDMENT NO. 2 TO
AGREEMENT 20CO3 WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION BUREAU OF BEACHES
AND COASTAL SYSTEMS, BEACH MANAGEMENT FUNDING
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, FOR DREDGING OF WIGGINS PASS
AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES
TOURISM – EXTENDING THE AMENDMENT TO DECEMBER
31, 2024
Item #16C1
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AS EX-OFFICIO
THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
WATER-SEWER DISTRICT, APPROVE A WORK ORDER TO
HASKINS, INC., PURSUANT TO A REQUEST FOR
QUOTATION (“RFQ”) UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 20-7800 FOR
THE “GLADES IQ PUMP STATION AND TANK
IMPROVEMENTS” PROJECT, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$680,145.56, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
WORK ORDER (PROJECT NO. 70166.12) – THIS ITEM IS
CONSISTENT WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND ASSET
MANAGEMENT ELEMENT OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
STRATEGIC PLAN OBJECTIVES
Item #16C2
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AS THE EX-
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
WATER-SEWER DISTRICT, AWARD REQUEST FOR
QUOTATION (“RFQ”) UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 20-7800, THE
“ANNUAL AGREEMENT FOR UNDERGROUND UTILITIES”
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 226 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 215
TO THE LOWEST BIDDER, KYLE CONSTRUCTION, INC.,
AND AUTHORIZE THE ISSUANCE OF A WORK ORDER IN
THE AMOUNT OF $746,000.00 FOR THE PUMP STATION
308.09 REHABILITATION PROJECT. (PROJECT NUMBER
70240.4.11) – THIS ITEM IS CONSISTENT WITH THE
INFRASTRUCTURE AND ASSET MANAGEMENT ELEMENT
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY STRATEGIC PLAN OBJECTIVES
Item #16C3
CHANGE ORDER NO. 2, PROVIDING FOR A TIME
EXTENSION OF 30 DAYS UNDER CONSTRUCTION
AGREEMENT NO. 23-8058, WITH ACCURATE DRILLING
SYSTEMS, INC., FOR THE “GOLDEN GATE CITY
TRANSMISSION WATER MAIN IMPROVEMENTS – PHASE 1A
– GOLF COURSE” PROJECT, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER
(PROJECT NO. 70253) – EXTENDING THE FINAL
COMPLETION DATE TO APRIL 5, 2024
Item #16C4
TO 1) APPROVE AN AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF PAY
APPLICATION 1 IN THE AMOUNT OF $16,636.00 FOR BOND
WORK COMPLETED, 2) APPROVE THE MASTER PUMP
STATION GENERATOR REPLACEMENT PROJECTS FOR MPS
112.00 AND 121.00 FOR PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF
TWO (2) GENERATORS DAMAGED FROM HURRICANE IAN
WHICH ERRONEOUSLY DID NOT HAVE PROPER BOARD
APPROVAL, AS REQUIRED UNDER AGREEMENT #19-7527
ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS WITH PUBLIC UTILITIES
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 227 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 216
SPECIALIZATION, 3) APPROVE PURCHASE ORDER
4500228495 TO SIMMONDS ELECTRICAL, INC. IN THE
AMOUNT OF $475,324.56, AND 4) DEEM THE EXPENDITURES
HAVE A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE (#50280.6.5/#50280.6.6) –
RECTIFYING THE CONTRACT SITUATION FOR WORK THAT
BEGUN WITHOUT FIRST RECEIVING BOARD APPROVAL
AND PAY FOR WORK ALREADY RECEIVED
Item #16D1
TO ACCEPT TWO (2) NON-RESTRICTED LIBRARY GRANT
DONATIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF $200 TO PROVIDE
OPERATIONAL SUPPORT FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY
SOUTH LIBRARY, FROM THE KIRSCH MCLAUGHLIN TRUST
THROUGH THE FIDELITY CHARITABLE GRANT PROGRAM
IN THE AMOUNT OF $100, AND FROM THE EILEEN AND
CONO FUSCO FUND THROUGH THE FIDELITY CHARITABLE
GRANT PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $100, AND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
(PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839) – BOTH DONATIONS
WILL BE USED TO SUPPORT GENERAL LIBRARY
OPERATIONS
Item #16D2
THE DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES DIVISION TO
PARTICIPATE IN FEE-WAIVED ADOPTION PROGRAM
PARTNERSHIPS AND AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER
OR DESIGNEE TO EXECUTE ANY AND ALL DOCUMENTS TO
EFFECTUATE PARTICIPATION IN FEE-WAIVED ADOPTION
PROGRAM PARTNERSHIPS – TO HELP REDUCE THE
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 228 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 217
ANIMAL POPULATION AT THE SHELTER AND REDUCE
OVERALL COSTS TO THE GENERAL FUND
Item #13D3
RESOLUTION 2024-11: THE REMOVAL OF
UNCOLLECTABLE ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLES IN THE
AMOUNT OF $45,711 FROM THE FINANCIAL RECORDS OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES
DIVISION IN ACCORDANCE WITH RESOLUTION NO. 2006-
252, MAKE A DETERMINATION THIS ADJUSTMENT IS IN
THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COUNTY, AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE ATTACHED
RESOLUTION
Item #16D4
THE CURRENT COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF’S INMATE
PROGRAM AT DOMESTIC ANIMAL SERVICES THAT
INCLUDES THE INMATE PROGRAM, COURT ORDERED
WEEKEND WORKER’S PROGRAM, AND COURT ORDERED
COMMUNITY SERVICE PROGRAM – THEY PREFORM
SERVICES SUCH AS CLEANING THE LIVESTOCK/BARN
AND OTHER ANIMAL AREAS, SUCH AS KENNELS HELPING
TO FREE UP SPECIALISTS TO FOCUS ON ADOPTIONS AND
OTHER ANIMAL CARE FUNCTIONS
Item #16D5
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 229 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 218
RESOLUTION 2024-12: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
TEMPORARY CLOSING OF A PORTION OF STATE ROAD 29
AND DETERMINING THAT THE CLOSURE IS NECESSARY
FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY MUSEUMS’ ANNUAL
IMMOKALEE CATTLE DRIVE & JAMBOREE ON MARCH 9,
2024, TO FULFILL A FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) TEMPORARY ROAD CLOSURE
PERMIT APPLICATION REQUIREMENT
Item #16D6
THE SUBMITTAL OF THREE (3) ELECTRONIC LIEN AND
TITLE SATISFACTIONS WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR
VEHICLES FOR THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP DEMOLITION AND REPLACEMENT OF
MANUFACTURED HOME PROGRAM (SHIP GRANT FUND
1053) – ENCOURAGING THE REVITALIZATION AND
INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF SAFE, DECENT, AND SANITARY
HOUSING
Item #16D7
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN ONE (1) MORTGAGE
SATISFACTION FOLLOWING FULL PRINCIPAL PAYMENT
OF $320,000 AND WAIVE ANY UNPAID INTEREST OWED
STAFF BELIEVES THE BOARD ‘S INTENT WAS TO FORGIVE
THE ENTIRE LOAN SINCE THE REPAYMENT WAS
RECEIVED BY THE MARCH 9, 2021, BCC MEETING
Item #16D8
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 230 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 219
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN TWO (2) RAPID RE-HOUSING AND
HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION PROGRAM LANDLORD
PAYMENT AGREEMENTS BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY
AND (1) SAMEER PODDAR AND (2) SPRINGHURST
PROPERTIES, LLC, TO PROVIDE GRANT-FUNDED RENTAL
ASSISTANCE TO INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES WHO MAY
BE IMPACTED BY HURRICANE IAN AND WHO MAY ALSO
BE HOMELESS OR AT RISK OF HOMELESSNESS IN COLLIER
COUNTY
Item #16D9
AFTER-THE-FACT APPROVAL FOR THE ADOPTION FEES
WAIVED BY THE DIVISION DIRECTOR OF DOMESTIC
ANIMAL SERVICES FOR THE PERIOD OF AUGUST 30, 2021,
THROUGH DECEMBER 31, 2023, IN THE AMOUNT OF $57,730,
THAT WERE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PROCEDURES
SET FORTH IN RESOLUTION NO. 2018-106
Item #16F1
THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE TWENTY-ONE (21) DEED
CERTIFICATES FOR PURCHASED BURIAL RIGHTS AT LAKE
TRAFFORD MEMORIAL GARDENS CEMETERY AND
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO
TAKE ALL ACTIONS NECESSARY TO RECORD THE DEED
CERTIFICATES WITH THE CLERK OF THE COURT’S
RECORDING DEPARTMENT
Item #16F2
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 231 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 220
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE REVISED MEMORANDUM OF
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE FLORIDA DIVISION OF
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OFFERED TO THE COUNTY
TO ACCEPT AND HOUSE A 250-KILOWATT TOWABLE
GENERATOR FOR SHARED USE – SUPPORTING NURSING
HOMES, SKILLED NURSING, ASSISTED LIVING AND OTHER
EXTENDED CARE FACILITIES, MEDICAL FACILITIES,
CONGREGATE, NON-CONGREGATE SHELTERS, AND OTHER
ESSENTIAL FACILITIES
Item #16F3
RESOLUTION 2024-13: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2023-24 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES)
Item #16F4
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1, ADDING 16 DAYS AND UTILIZING
$47,484 OF THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCE FOR PURCHASE
ORDER NO. 4500223994 UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 19-7539
WITH ADVANCED ROOFING, INC., THE “CCSO JAIL
(BUILDING J2) ROOF REPLACEMENT” PROJECT, FOR
ROOFING REPLACEMENT AT THE COLLIER COUNTY
SHERIFF’S OFFICE JAIL (BUILDING J2), AND AUTHORIZE
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 232 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 221
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT NO. 50229) – MAKING THE REVISED DATE
JANUARY 14, 2024
Item #16H1
TO APPEAL THE HEARING EXAMINER’S DECISION IN
HEARING EXAMINER DECISION NO. 2024-05, GRANTING A
VARIANCE FROM LDC 5.05.09.G.2, WHICH REQUIRES THE
BASE OF A COMMUNICATIONS TOWER TO BE SET BACK
FROM THE PROPERTY LINE BY A DISTANCE OF TWO AND
ONE-HALF TIMES THE HEIGHT OF THE TOWER, TO
REDUCE THE SETBACKS FROM 375 FEET TO 72 FEET ON
THE NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINES AND
375 FEET TO 220.7 FEET ON THE EASTERN PROPERTY LINE,
FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2560 39TH ST. SW, ALSO
KNOWN AS GOLDEN GATE ESTATES UNIT 28 NORTH 150
FEET OF TRACT 144, IN SECTION 26, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH,
RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA (PETITION
NO. PL20220003012)
Item #16J1
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $84,002,773.75 WERE DRAWN FOR THE
PERIODS BETWEEN DECEMBER 28, 2023, AND JANUARY 10,
2024, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 233 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 222
Item #16J2
REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF JANUARY 17,
2024
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2024-14: TO REAPPOINT TWO (2) MEMBERS
TO THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD -
REAPPOINTING ROBERT KAUFMAN AND JOHN FUENTES
BOTH W/TERMS EXPIRING ON FEBRUARY 14, 2027
Item #16K2
RESOLUTION 2024-15: TO REAPPOINT TWO (2) MEMBERS
TO THE LAND ACQUISITION ADVISORY COMMITTEE –
REAPPOINTING GARY BROMLEY AND KARYN ALLMAN
BOTH W/TERMS EXPIRING ON FEBRUARY 11, 2027
Item #16K3
RESOLUTION 2024-16: TO APPOINT THREE (3) MEMBERS
TO THE PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD –
APPOINTING ERIC KELLY W/TERM EXPIRING ON
DECEMBER 31, 2025, AND REAPPOINTING REBECCA
GIBSON-LAEMEL AND JOSHUA FRUTH BOTH W/TERMS
EXPIRING ON DECEMBER 31, 2027
Item #16K4
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 234 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 223
AN INSURANCE SETTLEMENT WHEREBY THE COUNTY
WILL RECEIVE $10,000 TO SETTLE AND RELEASE ITS
CLAIM AGAINST JAMES FORTUNATO FOR COSTS
INCURRED TO REPAIR BRIDGE DAMAGE, AND TO
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO
EXECUTE THE RELEASE – FROM A VEHICLE INCIDENT
THAT OCCURRED ON NOVEMBER 10, 2020
Item #16L1
TO TERMINATE FOR CONVENIENCE AGREEMENT NO. 23-
8144 FOR “HOLIDAY LIGHTS AND DECORATION RENTAL
AND INSTALLATION SERVICES” WITH LIGHT ‘ER UP LLC –
DUE TO INVENTORY DAMAGE AND STAFFING ISSUES
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2024-17: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FY23-24 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES)
Item #17B
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE, TO UPDATE THE PROVISIONS
RELATED TO WIRELESS COMMUNICATION FACILITIES.
[PL20230013966] (FIRST OF TWO HEARINGS)
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 235 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 224
ITEM #17C
ORDINANCE 2024-02: THE BOARD APPROVE A PROPOSED
ORDINANCE MODIFICATION TO COLLIER COUNTY
ORDINANCE NO. 2006-56, THE ROCK ROAD IMPROVEMENT
MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT (MSTU), TO
REESTABLISH AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO PROVIDE
INPUT TO THE COUNTY ON MATTERS RELATED TO THE
MSTU. (DISTRICT 3)
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 7:55 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
CHRIS HALL, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 236 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)
January 23, 2024
Page 225
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND
NOTARY PUBLIC.
2.C.a
Packet Pg. 237 Attachment: January 23, 2024, BCC Meeting Minutes (27942 : January 23, 2024, BCC Minutes)