CEB Minutes 11/17/2023November 17, 2023
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, November 17, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier County Code
Enforcement Board, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Robert Kaufman
Kathleen Elrod
Lee Rubenstein
Tarik N. Ayasun
Manmohan "Bart" N. Bhatla
Kevin Johnson, Alternate
John Fuentes (Excused)
Sue Curley (Excused)
James York, (Excused)
ALSO PRESENT:
Tom Iandimarino, Code Enforcement Director
Helen Buchillon, Code Enforcement
Jeff Letourneau, Manager of Investigations
Kevin Noell, Attorney to the Board
November 17, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'd like to call the Code
Enforcement Board to order.
Respondents may be limited to 20 minutes for case presentation
unless additional time is granted by the Board. Persons wishing to
speak on any agenda item will receive up to five minutes time unless
the time is adjusted by the Chairman.
All parties participating in the public hearing are asked to
observe Robert's Rules of Order and speak one at a time so that the
court reporter can record all statements being made.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of the Board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore,
may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is
made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which
the appeal is to be based. Neither Collier County nor the Code
Enforcement Board shall be responsible for providing this record.
Okay. I'd like everybody to stand for the Pledge.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Why don't we start out
with the roll call, Helen.
MS. BUCHILLON: Good morning. For the record, Helen
Buchillon, Code Enforcement Board.
Mr. Robert Kaufman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Ms. Kathleen Elrod?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Ms. Sue Curley is excused.
Mr. John Fuentes is excused.
Mr. Lee Rubenstein?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Here.
Mr. Tarik Ayasun?
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Here.
November 17, 2023
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MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. Bart Bhatla?
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. James York is excused.
Mr. Kevin Johnson?
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Here.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you.
MS. BUCHILLON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I'm sure everybody's read
the minutes. Can I get a motion to accept the minutes as written?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Make a motion to accept the
minutes as written.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Second. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Which brings us to the agenda.
MS. BUCHILLON: We have some changes. As of now, we
only have one stipulation, under hearings, No. 9,
CESD20230003711, Maria Isabel Reyes.
And we have some withdrawns.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Under hearings, No. 2,
CESD20220000669, Meirivan Rodrigues and Silvimar Dias has been
withdrawn. Violation has been abated.
November 17, 2023
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Number 4, CESD20220009351, Brittany Bay Apartments II,
LLC, care of Spira Brittany Bay II, LP, has been withdrawn due to
compliance efforts.
Number 5, CELU20220009913, Richard McElrath, Jr., has been
withdrawn. In-house continuance.
Number 6, CESD20230001084, Erick Padilla, has been
withdrawn due to compliance efforts.
Number 8, CESD20230000823, Island Walk Homeowners
Association, Inc., has been withdrawn due to an in-house
continuance.
Under old business, motion to for imposition of fines and liens,
No. 1, CEAU20220007161, Jose Alvarado Mata, has been
withdrawn. Respondent paid the past due ops costs.
Number 3, CESD20210013392, VJL Properties, LLC, has been
withdrawn due to compliance efforts.
And, No. 8, CELU20220011318, Yohenis Martinez, has been
withdrawn due to an in-house continuance.
And those are all the changes for now.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the
Board to accept the agenda as modified?
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: So moved.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Motion to accept.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
November 17, 2023
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(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Which brings us to?
MS. BUCHILLON: Our first case under public hearings, A,
motions, motion for extension of compliance deadline, No. 1,
CELU20220010742, Amy Marie Lowell.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MIGAL: I do.
MS. LOWELL: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you move the microphone
up a little bit so I can hear you, and state your name on the --
MS. LOWELL: Amy Lowell.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Rick?
MR. MIGAL: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I guess you're requesting, so...
MS. LOWELL: Correct. Oh, I just need a little bit more time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. How much more?
MS. LOWELL: Three or four months, whatever you can give
me. It's just me, and I'm just, you know, doing the best I can.
We've gotten rid of a lot.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, Rick.
MR. MIGAL: She has been working towards compliance.
When I first met her, the day that I met her to issue her her notice, she
was coming back from the hospital because she had to have surgery
on her ankle. I thought you were going to mentioned that.
MS. LOWELL: Sorry.
MR. MIGAL: But she's by herself, basically -- her son lives
there sometimes -- and so it's a daunting task. She has a lot. Her
husband passed, and there's just a ton on the property. But there's
November 17, 2023
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been steady progress made, and I have no problem with you giving
her extra time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Comments from the Board
or motions?
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: I make a motion --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: -- to give her four months.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Talk into the microphone
though, so...
Okay. We have a motion to grant a continuance of four
months.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Four months.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second. All those
in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
So you have four months.
MS. LOWELL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And like you did now, you came
before your compliance date was up. If for some reason you're not
done in four months, come before that date so that you don't accrue
fines.
MS. LOWELL: Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much.
November 17, 2023
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MR. NOELL: And just for clarity, that will be four months
from today's hearing date?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's correct.
MR. NOELL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So you're good till next year.
MS. LOWELL: Thank you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Stay off your ankle.
MS. LOWELL: I'd like to.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Next case.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case will be the imposition of fines
[sic], No. 9, CESD20230003711, Marie Isabel Reyes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: This is an imposition of fines?
MS. BUCHILLON: No. Did I say "imposition of fines"? I'm
sorry. The stipulation.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could be my hearing. I am
getting older.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MS. PEREZ: Yes, I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: This is a stip.
MS. PEREZ: Yes, this is a stipulation.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let the record show
respondent is not present.
Would you like to read the stipulation into the record for us?
MS. PEREZ: Yes. Good morning. For the record, Cristina
Perez, Collier County Code Enforcement.
I met with Ms. Reyes yesterday at her home to discuss a
stipulation.
Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall:
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One, pay the operational costs in the amount of $59.28 incurred
in the prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, abate all violations by obtaining all required Collier
County building permits or demolition permit, inspections, and
certificate of completion or occupancy to keep or remove the
unpermitted addition to the rear of the home within 180 days of this
hearing, or a fine of $250 per day will be imposed until the violation
is abated;
Three, respondents must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of abatement of the violation and request the investigator
perform a site inspection to confirm compliance; and,
Four, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: My only question on this is, is the
addition occupied or not occupied?
MS. PEREZ: It is not occupied as of my site visit yesterday.
It's actually still under construction. There was a stop work order
placed on the property, and they adhered to it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Great. So someone want
to make a motion?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the
stipulation as written.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
November 17, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MS. PEREZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you, Cristina.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next we need to amend the agenda. We
have another stipulation added. Under hearings, No. 11,
CESD20230004797, James and Rebecca Dunnigan.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Can we get a motion from
the Board to --
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Motion to modify the agenda.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
And here's the stipulation. It's still hot.
I'm assuming that the -- I'm assuming that the respondent was
here, agreed, and left?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So do you want to read the
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stipulation into the record for us?
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MARINOS: I do.
All right. Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the
respondent shall:
One, pay operational costs in the amount of $59.28 incurred in
the prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, abate all violations by obtaining all required Collier
County building permits or demolition permits, inspections, and
certificates of completion/occupancy for the mobile home within 60
days of this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed until
the violation is abated;
Three, respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of abatement of the violation and request the investigator
perform a site inspection to confirm compliance; and,
Four, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Make a motion to accept the
stipulation as written.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second to
accept the stipulation. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
November 17, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thank you.
MR. MARINOS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Next.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case under hearings, No. 7,
CESD20230000282, Gilbert Lordeus and Facilite Liberal.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MR. LORDEUS: I do, truth.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you give us your name on
the microphone so I can hear you.
MR. LORDEUS: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Your name?
MR. LORDEUS: My name is Gilbert Lordeus.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LORDEUS: I'm here by myself because my wife mother
passed away last night.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CATHEY: Do you want me to proceed, sir?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, it's here. Proceed.
MR. CATHEY: Jeff, do you want to proceed with the case
based on his comment?
MR. LETOURNEAU: The county wishes to withdraw this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
November 17, 2023
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MR. CATHEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
Okay, Helen.
MS. BUCHILLON: Okay. Next case.
MR. NOELL: And then as she's looking at that, since the
county had asked to withdraw it, it would just be the Board approving
the amendment to the agenda.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, we'll do that. Can we get a
motion from the Board to amend the agenda showing this case
withdrawn?
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: So moved.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Can we get a second?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yep. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MS. BUCHILLON: Okay. Next on the agenda, under old
business, B, motion for imposition of fines and liens, No. 4,
CESD20190009564, Syed M. Madni.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MS. MADNI: I swear.
MR. MIGAL: I do.
November 17, 2023
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MS. MADNI: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. Could you state
your name on the microphone for us, please.
MS. MADNI: Yes. Good morning. My name is Robin
Madni.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And if you want to, Rick,
read this into the record for us.
MS. MADNI: Excuse me?
MR. MIGAL: Oh, yeah, sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. It was in
there, No. 4.
MR. NOELL: And then, ma'am, you have permission to speak
on behalf of -- is it Syed Madni?
MS. MADNI: That's my husband, yes.
MR. MIGAL: Okay. For the record, Rick Migal, Collier Code
Enforcement.
Past orders: On July 23rd, 2020, the Code Enforcement Board
issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was in violation of the referenced ordinances and ordered
to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
OR5803, Page 1703, for more information.
On February 25th, 2021, the Code Enforcement Board granted a
continuance. On March 23rd, 2023, the Code Enforcement Board
granted a continuance. See the attached orders of the Board in
documents and images for more information. The violation has been
abated as of September 11th, 2023.
Fine and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $150 per day for the period from January 20th, 2021, to
September 11th, 2023, or 965 days, for a total fine amount of
$144,750.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.35 have been paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing: $59.70. Total amount:
November 17, 2023
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$144,809.70.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Excuse me. Robin.
MS. MADNI: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MS. MADNI: So I'm here today to ask for, hopefully, a total
abatement of fines. I understand that this has taken an unusual
amount of time. It's almost like that movie "A Series of Unfortunate
Events."
So if I take you back to the beginning, yes, I admit that I did do
some changes to the interior structure of my barn after Hurricane
Irma, as we were displaced. So during that time, a neighbor
complained. We complied completely with Code Enforcement,
allowed them into the property no problem, take your pictures, said
we would abide by everything.
Under advertisement of some of the personnel at Collier County
Code Enforcement, we hired Herminio Ortega, who was supposed to
be able to, for the $12,000 he took from us, walk us through all of
this in a timely fashion and get us on track. Unfortunately, he
strolled us along and along and along, took our money and walked.
So this set us back months.
After that happened, then we had -- excuse me. I'm a little
flustered.
Then we had another $8,400 to Herminio that he promised that,
okay, I will come back in. I will pay for not only what I was going
to do before, but I will pay for the new surveys. I will pay for this.
I will pay for that. My husband, being a good-natured person as he
is, took him at his word. He's a county official. We didn't think we
had a problem. Again, he's in the wind. That cost us a lot of time.
Now we have COVID. We have Ian come through. All of our
supplies are backed up. We cannot find personnel to do the work. I
came before you. I was told that if you wanted -- if I wanted an
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extension of time, I had to fire Herminio. I have here for you a letter
where the same day I wrote him, told him why I was terminating him.
I am going to proceed with legal. That's separate. I need this taken
care of first.
So then I have an inspector come to my home. He's there on
behalf of Collier County, Code Enforcement. Not one of your direct
employees but subbed in. His name was John Jones. John Jones
says, wow, you're in a real pickle here. My dad's a GC. He can
help you out. He's great.
I said, is he licensed and insured? Because I'm not getting
taken. Yep, here's his card; here's his license number. He'll come
out today.
He comes out, he verifies with me that he is licensed and
insured. I took him at his word. Why would you have a license on
your business card, correct? You were also recommended to me
from county.
Mr. Jones, which I have a signed contract and all my canceled
checks, took me for over $40,000. Two days he sent two workers to
my home. Anything that was done had to be ripped out and redone
because it was not up to code.
When I confronted the first Mr. Jones that was sent by county
from inspections, he said, don't worry if it's not up to code. I'm your
inspector.
I said, no. I am not playing these games. I want everything
right. And I'm going to live in this home. I need to know it's safe.
And I am not playing with Code Enforcement anymore. They're
ready to take my head.
So his father just walked off the job. Done.
So now I'm about $84,000 in the hole without any work being
done because what was done had to be removed.
So we hire another contractor. This time I hired Claudine
November 17, 2023
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Auclair. She looks at this, and she says, what a mess. We'll get
through this. I've been paying Claudine to help me walk me through
everything. I now became my own GC, hired in all my own subs,
called to make sure every one of them were valid with their license.
I continued to do that every single month that they were on the job.
So we started to progress after you were so kind as to give me
the extension of time. I now have my CO. I got it one month ahead
of the time that I asked for. Everything is 100 percent valid. It's up
to date.
Unfortunately, throughout this whole diabolical situation, prices
had risen so much due to COVID backups. No -- like, if you got
windows, you couldn't get them. I had to have hurricane impact
windows, egress windows. I couldn't get them for months. So they
were there. But then that delayed me. That cost me time. That
cost me more money. Everything that I had previously quoted from
builders is now three times the price.
My total price, which I have for you here, that I have already
paid after taking out three loans to do this at a very high interest rate,
has been $376,642.42. That excludes any of the shower, the tub, the
sinks, the faucets, the plumbing that goes behind the wall, any of the
lumber I supplied myself, all the hurricane strapping I supplied
myself, any of the work that I did on my own accord to make sure
that I didn't have to pay someone else to do.
I am standing before you today literally begging you to abate
these fines. This project has cost me so much time, money, and
stress. I have a chronic illness that I cannot even pay for my
treatments for, let alone pay these fines.
And I am a proud person, and it breaks my heart to even admit
to you that this is my situation, but this is the truth. And I'm just
asking for you to please take into circumstance the advantage that
was taken of me by two different people that I should have been able
November 17, 2023
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to trust. They were here to work for me on behalf of county.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Have you reported this to
Contractors Licensing?
MS. MADNI: Yes, I have, and I have also hired an attorney,
but I've chosen to get through this process first because this is too
much for me. I want this finished first. But I have already given
everything to my attorney, Mr. Donnelly, that I will be going after
these individuals separately.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: May I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Jeff, the lady named two
names that were related to the Code Enforcement. Are we
prosecuting these people? Is there anything going with that?
MR. LETOURNEAU: For the record, Jeff Letourneau, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Yeah, a couple things. Our investigators are trained not to give
out individual companies, contractors, whatnot, you know, show
preference to any contractors. I am going to look into the accusation
of the Herminio part of it.
And I'm not saying that somebody didn't tell you on the second
part, but we've never had an Investigator John Jones working for
Code Enforcement. I've been here 27 years. I just looked at the
case. We've got an investigator that's got a similar name, but he's
never been associated with this case. So we've never had a John
Jones working in Code Enforcement.
MS. MADNI: No disrespect to you whatsoever. He's not a
direct employee. He was subbed in from another company, but he
came to my home on your behalf. So he was hired by your entity to
come do my inspection. I have here --
MR. LETOURNEAU: I'm just saying that even our subs, we've
never had a John Jones sub.
November 17, 2023
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MS. MADNI: I have his business card in my file, and I have --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Can I see it, please?
MS. MADNI: And I have here my whole complaint status
where it shows that John Jones did, in fact, come to my home.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Can I see that business card?
MS. MADNI: Yes, sir.
MR. LETOURNEAU: The business card.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The first name that you mentioned
was a member of this board --
MS. MADNI: Yes, sir --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- at one time.
MS. MADNI: -- he was, and that's why, when he was
recommended to me, I thought, okay, he knows everything about this.
He runs his own business, Crown Development. He should be able
to walk me through this. I have my contract and my cashed checks
with him as well.
And if you can look through -- back here again, if you look
through all of the status of my code case here, it shows multiple times
where Bradley Holmes had reached out to him -- or Paula Guy had
reached out to him, and he's not responding.
There were day after day where my husband and I would just go
to his office and sit in his parking lot for half a day. One of the
times I was on the phone with Paula Guy for at least an hour and a
half just waiting for the man to please show up at work.
MR. LETOURNEAU: What investigator recommended
Herminio to you?
MS. MADNI: It wasn't an investigator that did that. It was
someone when you walk in the desk at the county, and they give you
a list, and they say, we're not allowed to give you a specific name of
someone. Here's a list of people we refer, but there's a checkmark
that is beside the one that we highly recommend.
November 17, 2023
Page 19
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Do you have the business card
of this Mr. Jones?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Kevin, do we need to acknowledge
that on the record, that Jeff's going to look at that card?
MR. NOELL: If she wants to -- ma'am, do you want to make
that part of the record in this case? If you do want to make that part
of the record, then we would submit it to the Board, and you wouldn't
get the card back. It would be part of the records of this board.
MS. MADNI: No. I need my card. No, because I need that
for my attorney and for my --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. I could look at that after we're
done here, okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. No problem.
MR. NOELL: You can also just verbally say the information or
the name that you were going to say as well.
MR. LETOURNEAU: But I'm on the record -- I'm on the
record saying that there -- we haven't had a Mr. John Jones working
for Code Enforcement since I've been here, 27 years, so, you know --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Nor -- me either, and I've been
here a long time, too.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'd like to make a motion to deny
the county the imposition of fines except for the 59.70.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: I second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
November 17, 2023
Page 20
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Nay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It passes. So the fines are,
in essence, abated except for the $59.70, so...
MS. BUCHILLON: To be paid --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You've been through a terrible
situation, and I hope other people can learn from this.
MS. MADNI: I've learned a lot.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll hire you the next time I want
to do some construction at my house.
MS. MADNI: I know all the ins and outs now.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. Kaufman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MS. BUCHILLON: The operational costs, 30 days?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes. Okay.
MS. MADNI: Thank you. It's appreciated.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, we're still under imposition of
fines, No. 5, CESD20210010293, Jose Garcia and Limbania
Verdecia.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm you will
translate everything from English into Spanish and Spanish into
English to the best of your ability?
MS. PUPO: Yes.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MS. VERDECIA: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we have an interpreter
and a respondent. Could you both say your name on the microphone
November 17, 2023
Page 21
for us.
MS. VERDECIA: Limbania Verdecia.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And?
MS. PUPO: My name is -- sorry. My name is Irianny Pupo.
And I just want to clarify. I'm not only the interpreter, but I've been
dealing with this case. She's my mother, and I've been in front of
this case for the -- since it started. So, basically, I've been the one
dealing with it all and trying to get everything corrected.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Ryan, do you want to read
this into the record for us?
MR. CATHEY: Yes. For the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On April 28th, 2022, Code Enforcement Board
issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. Respondent
was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and ordered to
correct the violation. See attached order of the Board, OR6161,
Page 3454, for more information.
Violation has not been abated as of November 17th, 2023.
Part one of this order was abated May 27th, 2023. Part 2 is
what remains, and the fines have accrued at -- $200 per day, from
July 28th, 2022, to November 17th, 2023, 478 days.
Total fine amount: $95,600. Fines continue to accrue.
Previous assessed operational costs, $59.28, were just paid this
morning. Operational costs for today's hearing is $59.42. That total
fine amount should now reflect $95,659.42.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Can you just give me a
little breakdown what Part 1 and Part 2 were on this order? Is Part 1
a fence and Part 2 something else?
MR. CATHEY: Bear with me one second, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. CATHEY: If you want to let the respondent talk for a
November 17, 2023
Page 22
minute while I get this pulled up.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure. Just so I can summarize. It
appears that there was a screened lanai that was turned into living
space; is that correct?
MS. PUPO: Correct; partially, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So why don't you give us a
rundown on where we are right --
MS. PUPO: All right. So, basically, we've been doing
everything we needed to do to put everything up to code, and get
everything where you guys want it to be. Unfortunately, we
hired -- the person that we hired to -- the architect, which just
recently I found out he's not the architect. He's doing business, I
guess, under somebody else -- somebody else's license or something
like that. But this guy disappeared on us.
We were doing good. With the time that you guys gave us, we
were doing good. We were getting everything rolling. We were
getting all the inspections done, and then we hit a wall.
This guy -- we needed to -- he made a mistake on the plans that
he submitted to you guys, and he put that the windows were impact
windows, and they're not. They're shutters. They're regular
windows with shutters on the outside, so that needed to be corrected.
The inspector that came out to do that inspection explained to us
that we needed to -- that this person that did this needed to submit a
correction over to the county and a letter explaining, you know, the
whole -- the mistake, I guess. I'm not familiar with how everything
needs to be worded, but that's what he explained to me.
So then I contacted this person, and I couldn't get ahold of him.
I called him from different numbers and finally got him to answer
one of the calls. I explained to him what needed to be done, and he
said, okay, I'll go and do what I need to do, and then I'll let you know
when it's done.
November 17, 2023
Page 23
And I said, okay. I took his word for it. Fine.
I waited days, weeks. Called him again. Didn't answer.
Called him from different numbers; didn't answer. Texted him;
didn't answer. Showed up at his office, and I would go inside.
Other people that were in his office would say, he's not here. We
don't know when he's coming in. He doesn't have a regular time to
come in. Okay. So I would just sit there in his office waiting for
him to show up. Never would show up.
Then there were days where the office was closed, and we were
sitting outside his office in the car for hours and hours waiting for
somebody to show up. Nothing.
Finally, this guy closed his office. We went in one day to see if
we could find him. Office is emptied out, completed emptied out.
My mom, during all this time, was in Cuba. She wasn't even
here, so she didn't even know anything -- well, she knew what was
going on, but she wasn't participating in anything because she wasn't
here.
So her and her husband -- he gave me a power of attorney for
me to help out with everything because he was driving back and forth
to Texas, so he wasn't continuingly here.
She just got back this year, so I'm filling her in and everything,
trying to -- you know, between the two of us, trying to get this guy,
trying to get this corrected so that we could move on, because
everything stopped. We couldn't do any more inspections. We
couldn't do anything else because everything just completely stopped
because of this guy.
So I went to the county. I said, I can't find him. I don't know
what else to do. He moved his office. I don't know if he closed it.
I don't know if he moved to China; I don't know. I can't find this
guy.
So the county said -- I said, can I do it? Can we do it
November 17, 2023
Page 24
ourselves? Can we do the corrections ourself? Because whatever
you tell me to do, I'll do it.
They said, you can't. The first person that we met with said you
can't. You have to have a licensed person do it.
This person walked away with our money, so we're here trying
to figure out how we're going to do this.
So then I said, can we talk to somebody else at the county,
someone from permitting? And they said, try and see what they say.
Sure enough, we talked to someone else. This just happened a few
weeks ago. And they said, yes, you can do it yourself because this is
simple.
And I said, gosh, I wish I would have known this before. And
the only reason I went to find out is because somebody else suggested
why don't you go to the county and see what they tell you.
All along, I'm here thinking it has to be with this guy because I
was told it had to be with this guy.
So finally this person at the county from permitting said, here's
what you need to do. Very nice. Gave me all the information, like,
the papers that I needed to fill out, told me what he needed me to get
as far as, like, numbers and codes from the windows and the shutters
for them to move along, and I did. I submitted it to them. They
have it. They're in the process of -- I don't know if it's a review or
revision. I don't know what it's called. But they're in the process of
that. They have all the papers. And that's what we're waiting on.
This -- this put a -- this is a brick wall that we hit, and it pushed
us back so much because we've been running around trying to find
this guy to get this thing going, and we were doing so good, and then
we were stuck.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is this person licensed?
MS. PUPO: I didn't know. He told me he was, and he gave
me information that he was. Like, he gave me his email address and
November 17, 2023
Page 25
he gave me his name and he said yes, but just recently I found out
he's not the one who's licensed. He's working under somebody else's
license. And the reason I found out is because when I went to the
county, one of -- the permitting person in the county said, the person
who signed the plans, the architect, is not the same name you're
giving me.
And I said, what do you mean? And that's when I found out
this guy's not the real architect.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Ryan, has this been given
to Contractors Licensing?
MR. CATHEY: Not that I'm aware of.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Have you -- has anybody told you
to go to Contractors Licensing with this person, what performance he
provided or didn't provide?
MS. PUPO: I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Contractors Licensing, they look
after people who are licensed, and they have a lot of power
to -- what's a good word? -- motivate people to get the job done, or if
they're not licensed and they are working as a licensed person, that
could be a serious offense.
So now what we have here is, is this is, like, over a year and a
half old, and it's still not into compliance. Do you any idea, Ryan,
when this might -- are we just waiting on the numbers provided by
the respondent to get this thing okayed?
MR. CATHEY: So, again, back to your first question real
quick from the original order, so that first part was to cease
occupancy of this unpermitted structure, which they were given until
May 28th of 2022. They had it done May 27th, so that part's been
done. No occupancy. They disconnected the fusebox and all.
That was the Part 1. The remaining part is what they're doing right
now, is going through this permitting process.
November 17, 2023
Page 26
So there were new updated revision documents that were just
submitted the beginning of this month; that still has to be reviewed by
the building department. We're coming up on the holidays and
everything, so that may take some additional time to process and get
through that.
My suggestion would be for the respondents to follow up with
Client Services if they're hitting any sort of bumps in the road to
make sure they're on the right tracks with the permit and that
everything's moving the way it's supposed to be.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. What we have here -- since
it's not into compliance, we can do two things: We can impose this
fine, or we can grant a continuance, in other words, 30, 60, whatever
days it is, until it's resolved. And at that time, we can impose,
reduce, or abate the fine at the time. So that's where we are now.
Any comments, Jeff?
MR. LETOURNEAU: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Kevin?
MR. NOELL: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: My explanation okay?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Other than we'll direct her to whatever
entities she might be able to use to go after that architect.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Has this gone through
Renald Paul?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I'm not sure.
Ryan, does it indicate that it has?
MR. CATHEY: I'd have to look back through the case with the
previous investigators.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: They may not be aware of
Contractors Licensing Board.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah. I'm getting an IM here saying
November 17, 2023
Page 27
that it might not be Contractor Licensing that can do anything, but it
might be a Sheriff's Office issue or a state issue.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I believe it's -- Kevin, correct
me -- it's a felony to do that.
MR. NOELL: Depending on, yes, certain circumstances, but
that would be the mechanism, to report it to the Contractor Licensing
Department.
MR. LETOURNEAU: We'll try to get her in the right direct as
far as that goes, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. PUPO: If I may?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MS. PUPO: I'm sorry. Yeah, and that's what I was going to
ask. You mentioned something, Ryan, about Client Services; is that
what you said?
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
MS. PUPO: Yeah. I'm not the familiar with that. This is the
first time we're -- you know, we're doing any of this, so I'm not
familiar with, like, who I can go to. I did want to file a complaint
about this person. So, yeah, I would appreciate any help that I can
get from you guys to do so, because I -- this pushed me back a lot.
MR. LETOURNEAU: We'll let Ryan know what direction you
need to go in, and he'll be giving you a call, okay?
MS. PUPO: All right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Lee, you have a question?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yeah. Is anybody living
in this space right now?
MS. PUPO: No, it's -- no, it's not occupied.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Okay. And, Ryan, you
were out there; you looked at it?
MR. CATHEY: I was not.
November 17, 2023
Page 28
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: You were not.
MR. CATHEY: I inherited this case recently from a previous
investigator. There was a previous investigator that conducted an
inspection on April 27th or, excuse me, May 27th to confirm there's
no occupancy.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Lee, they are under oath, and
they said nobody's in there, so I take that as a positive.
MS. PUPO: Ryan -- I'm sorry. Not Ryan. Bradley Holmes,
he's the original inspector that went out, and he confirmed.
He -- I've been in contact with him throughout this whole time. He
knows that -- that we hit this wall. He has been very helpful with us
and has been kind of instructing me a little bit with, you know, where
we're moving and stuff, and he has been going to the house. He has
seen it. These spaces are empty. There's nobody there. I mean,
these are walls, like empty walls, just -- there's no way anybody
could be there.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I'd like to make a motion
that we grant a continuance to our next meeting, which isn't until
January, okay. And if at that time things are done, we can act in one
fashion. If it's not done, we'll tackle that problem at that time.
MS. PUPO: If I may; I'm sorry. I appreciate that, and
definitely that will be very helpful. The only thing I would ask for
you guys to please take into consideration that we're hitting holidays
now, and everything just kind of falls back a little bit when it's
holidays. People just go on vacation. Like, anybody that's going to
work is not going to want to work. They want just to be home. So
if we could -- maybe a little bit -- maybe, like, February, if you guys
don't mind, just to give me that space of the holidays so that I don't
hit a wall again.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm reluctant to do that because
this thing has been going on for a year and a half. So I think that's
November 17, 2023
Page 29
plenty of time. If what you're saying to me is true, that you
submitted the numbers and there's a modification of the original case
that's before the county -- and the holidays are -- I realize people take
vacations, but the holidays are three days: Thanksgiving, Christmas,
and New Year's. The rest of the days people are supposed to work.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'll second your motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we have a motion and a
second. Any other discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. One opposed. Okay.
So you have until next year. The end of January is when we
meet. The exact date, Helen?
MS. BUCHILLON: January 25th, 2024.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So that's the date that will
be on the order, Kevin, okay?
And he'll talk to you outside.
MS. PUPO: I appreciate it. I appreciate you guys. Thank
you so much. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: I have a comment.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: It's outside this. Is there
anything in the county procedures we can recommend that this
November 17, 2023
Page 30
occurrence of the contractor selection, it does not occur too often that
the whole lot of comment get involved? In other words, the
approval of the contractor before anybody can start any work.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me give you my two cents
worth.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Please.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Kevin will probably -- he'll agree
with me. It's up to the individual to pick their contractor to do
something.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: True.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If they falsify things saying that
they are licensed and they're not licensed, that could be a felony.
That goes to the Sheriff, if I'm not correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So there are those rules that are out
there. If somebody picks a contractor and that person runs away or
dies, we have no control over that. We're only considering the stuff
that's before us.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: True.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Kevin?
MR. NOELL: Yeah. And, also, the Board of County
Commissioners sets the parameters of this board's jurisdiction, so to
speak.
I would also just state that, from a liability perspective, this
board would not want to be in the business of verifying contracts and
whether contractors are licensed or not or taking on any of that legal
risk from a -- from a check and balance perspective; that that would
definitely be --
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: I understand that point.
MR. NOELL: Yes, sir.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: I think the issue is not for the
November 17, 2023
Page 31
Board but for the county to take this under advisement to do
something so that we don't have these kind of cases. I mean, this
is -- clearly is a rip-off every time, you know.
MR. NOELL: And part of -- in a previous responsibility I
advised the Contractor Licensing Board as a noncounty employee,
and then as a county employee I worked closely with the Collier
County contractor investigators -- Contractor Licensing Department
investigators, and so there are mechanisms in place where, you know,
those kind of issues are fully investigated and prosecuted and things.
But to get in between the homeowner and the subcontractor or a
contractor, for the county to insert themselves in between the two in
that dynamic would be disastrous for the county to do.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Understood.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's why God made lawyers.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: Yeah. I was only interested in
the preventative; anything county can do in terms of advising to
prevent these kinds of things. That's all.
MR. NOELL: And I know that there are public information
campaigns that --
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: Yeah.
MR. NOELL: -- to your point, sir, and I think it's well said.
There are public information campaigns that the Code Enforcement
and, I believe, Contractor License Department does for the public to
keep them aware.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: Wonderful.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And the problem is, by the time the
county gets involved and sees any kind of submissions, plans, or
whatever, money's already been exchanged. That's the time it
usually gets caught right there. So as many unscrupulous contractors
as there are, there's more people that don't do their due diligence in
hiring these people. That's the problem.
November 17, 2023
Page 32
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: Thanks, Bob.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Which moves us on to the next
case.
Hi, Helen.
MS. BUCHILLON: Hi.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The boss. Okay, boss.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: Sorry for holding you up.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, that's okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: What did you ask?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What are we going to do next?
MS. BUCHILLON: Oh, I'm sorry.
Next case, we're still under imposition of fines, No. 6,
CESD20210012586, William N. Kogok, Jr.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. KOGOK: I do.
MR. MARINOS: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Would you like to read this
into the record for us?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir, I will.
All right. For the record, Investigator Charles Marinos, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On September 22nd, 2022, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered on correct the violation. See the attached order of the
Board, OR6181, Page 452, for more information.
On June 22nd, 2023, the Code Enforcement Board issued a
finding of fact -- sorry. On June 22nd, 2023, the Code Enforcement
November 17, 2023
Page 33
Board granted a continuance. See the attached order of the Board in
documents and images for more information.
The violation has not been abated as of November 17th, 2023.
Fines have accrued at a rate of $250 per day for the period from
April 23rd, 2023, to November 17th, 2023, 209 days, for a total fine
amount of $52,250. Fines continue to accrue.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 and $59.28 have
been paid, operational costs for today's hearing is $59.56, for a total
amount of $52,309.56.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sir, could you put your
name on the mic for us, please.
MR. KOGOK: William Kogok, Jr.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. KOGOK: Well, I have gotten the wheels in motion. I've
had Randy Johns of Phoenix Associates and Claudine Auclair on the
job.
They -- we had a meeting -- I had a meeting with Randy and an
architect, I believe, on the property then again at his office with
Claudine present both times.
In August, they submitted the plans and surveys for the garage.
In late September, I believe the 26th, that was rejected. The survey
was rejected for the use of the word "casita" to -- on the survey to
describe the garage and the pump house.
There were also -- also the incorrect survey was submitted, not
having the elevations on it as well, which I did have a copy of at the
time, and it was missing the digital signature.
So I contacted the company who did the survey, and they were
going to force me to have a new survey done to get those just to get
the word "casita" removed and to have the digital signature put on.
So I fought with them for about a week and finally went in through a
backdoor email and got someone else to go ahead and do it for me at
November 17, 2023
Page 34
no charge.
On October 4th, I submitted the corrected survey with the digital
signature to Phoenix Associates, and that brings us up to date now.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You're still not in compliance?
MR. KOGOK: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And any comments from the
county?
MR. MARINOS: No. Everything he stated is correct.
Correction letter is basically covered by the comments he made.
Maybe some more technical details, but that's essentially where we
are currently.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I have a question for you, Chuck,
though. This only involves one structure?
MR. MARINOS: It's two structures; a garage and a pump
house.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. And the pump house is being
handled how?
MR. KOGOK: So he's working for the garage first.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay.
MR. KOGOK: And then he's going to do the pump house.
MR. LETOURNEAU: All right.
MR. KOGOK: There's an issue with the garage being now
under the elevation of the roadway by a foot, so I'm supposed to have
to install flood vents at the base of the garage which is going to create
a problem because my neighbor next door raised the elevation of his
property by two feet without installing any kind of water mitigation.
So every time we have a big storm, it already floods my garage, and
now we're going to have even more water coming in because he put
an impervious driveway about 10 feet wide on top of that two-foot
raised property of his. So I get all of his runoff, and I haven't -- you
know, I've complained about it but gotten no relief on that.
November 17, 2023
Page 35
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So this started two years ago?
MR. KOGOK: I purchased the house with all of this there, and
it had been there for about -- according -- I had checked the county
records prior to purchasing it, and it was on the tax records. So the
county knew about it for 10 years and did nothing about it, and the
person who sold me the house, who was herself a realtor, failed to
disclose that these buildings were never permitted.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So the buildings themselves were
there on September 22nd, 2022?
MR. KOGOK: Even before, correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They were there?
MR. KOGOK: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They were on the pictures, the eye
in the sky, if you will?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So they all showed?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And what brought this to light was
the purchase?
MR. MARINOS: No. It was a complaint from the neighbor.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ah. I figured we'd drill down to
the problem sooner or later.
MR. KOGOK: Oh, yeah. The problem is the neighbor next
door who's, in my opinion, a hoarder, and causes many problems.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. KOGOK: For 15, 17 years now, he's had a nuisance house
on that property. And the last owner and him had some kind of
agreement of not turning each other in. And when the house was
sold to me, the seller failed to notify me of that.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Was the previous owner
cited?
November 17, 2023
Page 36
MR. KOGOK: I don't believe he was ever cited for it.
MR. MARINOS: No. This case began while he was the
owner of the property.
MR. KOGOK: I inherited all the trouble.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: When did you purchase the
property? When did you purchase the property?
MR. KOGOK: In March of '21.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, we're back to the
same concern; it's not into compliance. Do you have any idea when
that will happen?
MR. KOGOK: No, I don't. Honestly, I don't know how long.
I thought it would be done by now, to tell you the truth.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So our concern is, if you don't
know when it's going to be done, for us to grant a continuance, if you
will, rather than impose the fine, we'd have to get some indication
from you or from the county on how long -- I mean, if you tell me
this isn't going to be in compliance for five years, that's one thing. If
you're telling me it will probably be in compliance in a month, we
have no way of knowing. You are probably in the best position to
know that.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: What's it going to take to
come into compliance? What has to be done? I remember this case
when it came up, and somehow one foot stuck in my mind; that your
property was off one foot, either the pump house --
MR. KOGOK: The pump house, you're correct.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: And there was a fence
put in?
MR. KOGOK: Well, I'm fortunate enough to have Randy
Johns of Phoenix Associates taking care of this, because he knows a
November 17, 2023
Page 37
lot of things that other contractors that I've spoken with don't know.
He has a plan to bring that pump house into compliance, even
being that close, by altering it. My suggestion was just to take the
whole wall back, but he's got -- but it's full of electronics. The pump
house has four pumps, a reverse osmosis system, a lot of other
electrical boxes, and --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Has he given you an indication on
when he thinks this can be resolved?
MR. KOGOK: No, he hasn't.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Jeff, can a variance be
put on this? I don't know how you move a pump house with all
that --
MR. LETOURNEAU: I'm gathering from his testimony that
Mr. Johns has a plan for this thing, correct?
MR. KOGOK: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And I would say that Mr. Johns is a
very good contractor --
MR. KOGOK: I agree.
MR. LETOURNEAU: -- in my experience, and knows
probably more than anybody in this room as far as that goes.
MR. KOGOK: The biggest -- the biggest time constraint that
we had was this survey.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The elevation.
MR. KOGOK: Because of the -- well, we had the -- I had the
elevations done, and I had just shown Mr. Johns. I texted him the
survey, but it wasn't the correct one, because I had to have them come
back and do the elevations that I had prepaid for. They had
forgotten to do that. The company that did the survey was subpar.
And -- but the pump house was one foot, and he believes that -- I
don't want to speak for him. He believes that we can work within
the code --
November 17, 2023
Page 38
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Without getting into the
gory details --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Just getting back to Lee's question,
though, if a variance was required, that would take a long time, over a
year.
MR. KOGOK: That's what I was told, and a lot of money, and
it might not even be approved.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right. So my question to you is,
you're before us to ask for something.
MR. KOGOK: Could I ask for six more months?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I mean, we have an order here to
impose the fine, and I'm trying to --
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Six months.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- bend over backwards to see if
we can resolve things. So we've got to get some indication from
you. I mean, a year seems a little bit out of the -- I mean, this has
been going on for two years. You can build a high-rise --
MR. KOGOK: Well, it's been going on for 10 years with the
county knowing about it.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: I think he asked for six
months.
MR. KOGOK: Could I have six months, please, for two
buildings.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any comments from
the -- go ahead.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I agree you need some
time, but you also have an avenue to get the money that you're out
back by filing a charge on the realtor who didn't disclose through
DBPR, and they keep a fund up in Tallahassee for realtors that don't
tell the truth and don't disclose. And if your case is brought before
them, that all this problem that you have and all the money that
November 17, 2023
Page 39
you've laid out is found that they agree, you might have an avenue for
reimbursement.
MR. KOGOK: Can I ask what DBPR is?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, Division [sic] of
Business and Professional Regulations. Even though the realtor
didn't disclose, it was obvious that there was something going on that
they didn't disclose. So you need to get ahold of an attorney that
deals with real estate and disclosure.
MR. KOGOK: Well, that will just help me get the money back,
but it doesn't help us --
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: They keep a -- they keep
a fund for realtors that lie, plain and simple.
MR. KOGOK: Amazing.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: And they collect money
from fines, and it goes into this fund for cases like yours. You
bought a property unknowing that there was a problem, the seller
knew there was a problem, the seller's realtor knew there was a
problem, and they didn't disclose.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, we don't know. That's
something that --
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'm saying he's got an
avenue to look into.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'd like to make a motion --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: -- that we give him six months.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion to --
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- grant a continuance of six
months; is that correct?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Yes.
November 17, 2023
Page 40
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: And the
fine -- everything continues, right?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Correct.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: All right. I'll second.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: What would that accomplish?
MR. NOELL: Did you also want operational costs paid within
30 days?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Operational costs of 59.56 paid
within 30 days. Do you have a question?
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: I was interested in -- is that
acceptable to you, in six months you --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter
whether it's acceptable or not.
BOARD MEMBER BATLA: Okay.
MR. KOGOK: Thanks for asking.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's like -- I give you my
analogy later on. Okay. We have a motion --
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- and a second. All those in
favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
November 17, 2023
Page 41
So six months. And I would highly suggest that if this is not
done in six months that you come back here with somebody holding
your hand who knows all the answers to the questions that we've
been asking; your contractor, et cetera.
MR. KOGOK: Yeah. I mean, I'm really lucky to have this
gentleman working for me. He normally does big, huge projects,
and I believe he was also involved somehow in the board or
something previously, or with the county. And so he really knows
his stuff. It's just a matter of getting it all done and going through
the red tape as well.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. KOGOK: But thank you very much.
MR. MARINOS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes, Helen.
MS. BUCHILLON: Number 7, CESD20220006947, Caridad
Molina Estate.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We're still in the
impositions?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
MR. MOLINA: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Could you give us your
name on the microphone.
MR. MOLINA: Yeah, it's Carlos Molina. Caridad Molina's
son.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you have his permission to --
MR. MOLINA: She's dead. She's passed away.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And we --
MR. NOELL: And, sir, are you authorized to speak on behalf
of the estate?
November 17, 2023
Page 42
MR. MOLINA: It's mine.
MR. NOELL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So the answer to that question is
yes.
MR. MOLINA: Yes. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ryan?
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MOLINA: I do.
MR. CATHEY: I do:
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to read this
into the record for us, Ryan?
MR. CATHEY: For the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier County
Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On March 23rd, 2023, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order.
Respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See attached order of the Board,
OR6233, Page 460, for more information.
Violation has not been abated as of November 17th, 2023.
Fines have accrued at a rate of $150 per day for the period,
June 22nd, 2023, to November 17th, 2023, 149 days. Total fine
amount: 22,350. Fines continue to accrue.
Previous assessed operational costs of $59.20 were paid.
MS. BUCHILLON: Twenty-eight cents.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Twenty-eight cents.
MR. CATHEY: -- 28 cents, excuse me, were paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing: $59.42. Total amount:
$22,468.70 less the operational costs that were just paid.
MS. BUCHILLON: 409.22.
November 17, 2023
Page 43
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. That's arithmetic. Okay.
This was a condominium. Interior renovations were done
without a permit: Drywall, electrical, et cetera. So, sir.
MR. MOLINA: No, no drywall. Just sinks, the cabinets,
floor.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It was a renovation?
MR. MOLINA: Yeah, yeah, renovation. Okay, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No. It just happens to say drywall
in here. It doesn't matter.
MR. MOLINA: Okay, okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. This is in a condominium?
MR. MOLINA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Because it's in a condominium,
you need a licensed contractor to do it. You can't do owner/builder.
MR. MOLINA: I didn't know any of that, and I just went ahead
and did it, and -- yeah, yeah.
MR. CATHEY: If I may, real quick?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah.
MR. CATHEY: Just to let the Board know, there was an A/C
permit that was pulled and finaled in August of 2023 and also an
electrical permit for a panel that was pulled and finaled in August of
2023, and the only thing remaining that still needs to be addressed is
there's some minor interior renovations that were done. So that's the
remaining issue.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you're -- are you
aware of what minor revisions need to be done?
MR. MOLINA: Yeah, he was explaining to me that I need
pictures and stuff like that to -- and the building -- a building
contractor.
MR. CATHEY: My suggestion -- we previously met with
Renald Paul and went over what remains. My suggestion previously
November 17, 2023
Page 44
after that was to obtain additional photos of what was done on the
inside of the condo, which primarily was the kitchen cabinetry, some
minor plumbing stuff, from what I understand.
My suggestion was to meet with Renald Paul or Client Services
to confirm any additional permit requirements and that he's going
to -- because it's a condo, he still would have to get a contractor, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And did you meet with
Renald Paul or --
MR. MOLINA: Yes. Well, I did. He -- he asked [sic] me
what I needed, but I wanted to come here today to make sure what I
need. So he explained it to me now, and I'm going to go back to him
hopefully today, or call.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you have any idea how long
this is going to take to resolve what issues are still open?
MR. MOLINA: You guys are the experts. Give me -- give me
your expert --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, we're not the experts on that.
I mean, you obviously have to hire some licensed contractor --
MR. MOLINA: Right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- to clean up whatever's left over,
whatever -- when do you meet with Renald Paul?
MR. MOLINA: I'm going to try to do it today.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CATHEY: We previously met last week with this
additional information. My suggestion was to set up a follow-up
appointment.
MR. MOLINA: Yeah, and I want to clear something out here.
Chuck Marinos, when he come to the 23rd that he just said,
March 23rd -- 22nd, he told me that this has passed inspection. He
walked around with me, and my building -- he already said to me that
this is not to come up because it's passed and -- but Chuck Marinos
November 17, 2023
Page 45
did tell me that, you know, everything has passed, and that's why I
didn't follow up on any of this, until this 8th -- until the 2nd of this
month I seen a letter hanging that I needed -- you know, that this
problem was here, so...
MR. CATHEY: I can't speak to what occurred in the past.
The only thing I can speak to is that we -- we're not rehearing the
case, obviously. But we had a signed stipulation from this
gentleman back in March.
MR. MOLINA: Well, then, another thing. Bradley says to
me, don't -- on the 8th, he says to me, don't come to this meeting
today. Call Ryan, and he'll let you know if you could come to the
meeting or not. I wasn't going to be here. If he didn't call me on the
8th -- that we spoke on the 8th -- I wouldn't have been here. Again,
so this would have gone on and on, so I just want to clarify that,
really.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You signed a stipulation --
MR. MOLINA: I did.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- that said that you would take
care of all of this and that the --
MR. MOLINA: But Dan [sic] Marino told me that I passed
everything. He walked with me all around the -- you know, inside
the condo there. He checked the water heater. He checked all the
pipes. He checked electrical boxes. He checked everything. He
says to me --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And then he signed the letter
saying that he checked all of these things?
MR. MOLINA: I signed it -- I signed the letter.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, you signed the stipulation.
But you said he checked all of these things, and he said everything is
okay.
MR. MOLINA: Yeah, yeah, he said.
November 17, 2023
Page 46
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Did he give that to you in writing?
MR. MOLINA: No, he did not.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Then it's not worth the
paper it's not written on, if you get my drift.
MR. MOLINA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So my question is: You're
going to meet with Renald Paul?
MR. MOLINA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And they're going to say you need
to do this, this, and this.
MR. MOLINA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And then you're going to hire
somebody to do this, this, and this.
MR. MOLINA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And it will all be done, signed,
permit approved, get a CO on the change, and then instead of saying
"has not been abated," the order would say it "has been abated."
And at that time it will come before us, and we can either impose the
fine, abate the fine, or modify the fine, okay? Is that clear?
MR. MOLINA: Very. To me it is.
MR. CATHEY: County has no objection to a reasonable
continuance for the Board.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So anybody want to make
a motion as far as how much time?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion for three
months.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MOLINA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion --
MR. MOLINA: Thank you.
November 17, 2023
Page 47
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- and a second --
MR. MOLINA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- to grant a continuance of three
months. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: The 59.42 within 30 days.
MR. MOLINA: Thank you.
MS. BUCHILLON: And fines continue to accrue?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. MOLINA: Thank you, guys.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MOLINA: We're good?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're good.
MS. BUCHILLON: We're still under imposition of fines.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Number 2, CESD20220007421, Joel Budd
and Kathleen Budd Trust.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. BUDD: I do.
MR. PACKARD: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to read this
November 17, 2023
Page 48
into -- sir, could you give us your name on the microphone first.
MR. BUDD: Joel Budd.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And could you read this
into the record for us?
MR. PACKARD: Yes, sir. Good morning. For the record,
Jason Packard, Collier County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On January 26th, 2023, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a findings of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
OR6217, Page 475, for more information.
The violation has been abated as of September 5th, 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $5 per day for the period from May 27th, 2023, to
September 5, 2023, 102 days, for a total fine amount of $510.
Previously assessed operational costs of 59.28 were waived by
the Code Enforcement Board. Operational costs for today's hearing:
$59.35. Total amount: $569.35.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
Okay, sir. You are here asking for?
MR. BUDD: Well, yeah, I'd like to waive the fines. I -- it's
been a long labor to get this done. But prior to the last time I was
here, I was working on trying to find a contractor. I got lucky. I
did find one when I was at the last meeting and hired him to do this
work. A double-edged sword; he charged me about 6,000 to pull the
permits. But we're finally done, as you know, and it's just took a
long time for him to get the work done.
I don't live down here, but he was, throughout that whole time
period, since the last meeting, working to go to the condo, have
people come out, inspect it. The last inspector finally came. I think
it was the fire department making sure the firewalls were done, and
November 17, 2023
Page 49
then it was finally filed, I think you said September 5th. So that's
how long it took. And I finally got it done, and hopefully the
nightmare's over now.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. BUDD: This was all from a previous owner that I had this
problem. It was nothing I did.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any questions from the Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, the first thing that was done
is it started without a building permit, right?
MR. BUDD: Yeah. It was a previous owner. I don't know
anything that happened. It was the previous owner that did the
work, and I bought the place without any knowledge that there was
work done, because it was all completed when I moved in.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. BUDD: I didn't -- also, I just got blindsided after I moved
in with a notice on the door saying there was work done. I
didn't -- like I said, I had no knowledge of it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Curiosity, how did this thing get
reported?
MR. PACKARD: It was a referral from Contractors Licensing.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Contractors Licensing, okay.
MR. PACKARD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. PACKARD: Unlicensed contractor, no permit, and then
the previous property owner called it in because of some issues with
the work.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody have any
questions or motions from the Board?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion to waive the
fines --
November 17, 2023
Page 50
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: -- except for today's operational
costs.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we have a motion.
Operational costs today of 59.35 to be paid within 30 days, and the
fine is abated. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It passes. Okay, sir.
MR. BUDD: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
Okay, Helen.
MS. BUCHILLON: Okay. Back to public hearings, D,
hearings, No. 1, CESD20220007782, Titus Enterprises, LLC.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MARINOS: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. Let the record
show the respondent is not present.
Notifications?
MS. BUCHILLON: For the record, respondents were notified
regular and certified mail October 24th, 2023, and it was posted at the
property and courthouse October 27, 2023.
November 17, 2023
Page 51
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Chuck.
MR. MARINOS: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Present your case. Good morning.
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir. For the record -- fight me.
For the record, Investigator Chuck Marinos, Collier County
Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CESD20220007782 dealing
with violation of Collier County Land Development Code 04-41, as
amended, Section 10.02.06(B)(1)(a), 10.02.06(B)(1)(e), and
10.02.06(B)(1)(e)(i), an agriculturally zoned property with multiple
structures requiring permitting including, but not limited to, the
following: Multiple greenhouse structures over 100 square feet in
footprint, a mobile home, and a permanent set of stairs leading up to
the mobile home's door located at 2185 Markley Avenue, Naples,
Florida, 34117; Folio 335800001.
Service was given on June 27th, 2023.
This case originated as a complaint. On August 18th, 2023,
Senior Investigator Migal met with Sasha Michael on site to conduct
an inspection. Sasha Michael is the representative for Titus
Enterprises. He noted greenhouses, a small wooden building with
deck and electrical for A/C and appliances, a camper with a deck in
place, and stairs leading up to that deck.
A building determination was conducted on August 23rd, 2022,
where the chief building official determined that all referenced
structures required permits.
I took over this case on February 23rd, 2023. At that time, a
wetlands determination was in progress from Florida DEP. I spoke
with Mr. Michael at that time, and he intended to get the required
permitting for the structures in question.
On June 27th, 2023, an updated notice of violation was posted
on the property due to an error with the initially issued document.
November 17, 2023
Page 52
Since that time, no permit applications have materialized, and all
structures remain. All unpermitted electrical work requires demo
permits for removal. Violation remains.
I would now like to present case evidence in the following
exhibits: One building determination; two pictures taken by Senior
Investigator Migal on 18 August of 2022 showing initial conditions;
three pictures taken by Senior Investigator Migal on 07 September
2022 showing initial conditions; one picture taken by myself on
June 27th, 2023, showing conditions at the time of NOV service; and
four pictures taken by myself on 16 November 2023 showing current
conditions.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Get a motion from the Board to
accept the photos?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the
photos.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay.
MR. MARINOS: Starting with the building determination.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Who signed that, by the way?
MR. MARINOS: Mr. Jonathan Walsh.
November 17, 2023
Page 53
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, gotcha.
MR. MARINOS: And then we'll move on to the photos here.
18 August, these are the greenhouses in question. Here you see
some of the electrical and the deck and the camper. This is another
view of the camper, obviously.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Does the camper have license
plates on it?
MR. MARINOS: I'd have to go back and check. I don't
remember right off the top of my head.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So it's not a motor home.
It's a camper.
MR. MARINOS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MARINOS: Yeah, it looks like no license plates.
This is the interior of one of the greenhouses along with some
structure there in the back. This is a photo at the time of the NOV.
You can see the camper's still in place. I was standing on the deck.
A little bit further back, this is the conditions as of yesterday,
deck and camper. The two green houses, the one up front and the
one in the rear. Some vehicles there with the camper. And then
you can see, again, that structure in the rear of the greenhouse since
of the tarp covering has been ripped up.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Was that a water line or a
power line going to the mobile home?
MR. MARINOS: Power line.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: So somebody's living out
there?
MR. MARINOS: He's using it as an office. There was
nothing to show that it was occupied for living, but it was definitely
being used as an office.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Is there a business in
November 17, 2023
Page 54
operation or attempting to?
MR. MARINOS: I think he ceased operations on that site since
he was hit with the violation, thus the state of the greenhouses
currently.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: So it's not really a greenhouse.
It's A skeleton of a greenhouse.
MR. MARINOS: Now it's a skeleton of a greenhouse. It was
a greenhouse at the time of initial inspection.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Is there -- what were they
growing there, if anything?
MR. MARINOS: I've never seen anything growing there
myself. They've got those white planter boxes, but there's nothing
kind of protruding from the top of them.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Is the power coming off a
generator?
MR. MARINOS: No. There is an actual power post.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So it's being provided power?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Probably has wells, probably no
city water out there. Where is this, by the way?
MR. MARINOS: It is well. This is 2185 Markley. So this
would be past the landfill, just north of 75.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MARINOS: Where 75 runs east to west.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Have you had any
problems reaching the people from this -- from Titus?
MR. MARINOS: Intermittently. We've been in contact
recently.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And what are they saying?
MR. MARINOS: They're still trying to pull permits. They're
November 17, 2023
Page 55
looking at -- they spent a long time working with Florida FDEP
trying to get wetland certifications. They're trying to get an ag use.
They're having a problem with their zoning to get full ag use on the
property. They've also got some other problems holding them up
because they've got concurrent cases for vegetation clearing, which is
causing a problem with them getting permits for any structures.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And they were aware that
we had the meeting today on this case?
MR. MARINOS: They absolutely should have been. We've
contacted them multiple times. The previous -- there was a previous
hearing that was postponed because they were not in state at the time;
that was weeks ago. This was posted again since that point in time.
They're also aware that they've got three total cases on the property,
all of which are being heard.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any comments, questions?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I have a motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Motion. Do you have a motion?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: To fill in the blanks.
Are we there yet?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, I guess we are. You have a
suggestion for us?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir.
MS. BUCHILLON: You need to find it in violation or not.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes. Get a motion whether a
violation exists.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion a violation
exists.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
November 17, 2023
Page 56
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
A violation exists.
MR. MARINOS: All right. Ready?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yep.
MR. MARINOS: Absolutely. Okay.
So recommendation: That the Code Enforcement Board orders
the respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of $59.28
incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days, and abate all
violations by:
One, obtaining all required Collier County building permits or
demo permits, inspections, and certificate of completion/occupancy
for the unpermitted structures and improvements to the property
within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank per day will be
imposed until the violation's abated; and,
Two, the respondent must notify the Code Enforcement
investigator when the violation has been abated in order to conduct a
final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violation, the county may abate the violation using any
method to bring the violation into compliance and may use the
assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the
provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed
to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to fill out the
blanks?
November 17, 2023
Page 57
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a motion.
Before I do, I want to ask you a question. Does -- what does it look
like they're attempting to do out there?
MR. MARINOS: You know, I'm not entirely certain. They're
trying to, it looks like, run a business and grow something -- stuff.
I'm not sure what they're trying to grow. Greenhouse is in place.
There's a lot of other material in terms of a litter case going on
additionally at the same time. So I'm not entirely certain what
they're trying to do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What size property is it?
MR. MARINOS: I want to say it's five acres or just
thereabouts.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Lee, do you want to fill in
the blanks?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, I do. Sixty days
and 250 per day.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion. Do we have a
second? I'll second it.
Okay. And the motion is $59.28 paid within 30 days,
thereafter -- a fine of $250 a day after 60 days. I got it right?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yep.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any questions, comments?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: It seems an unreasonably short
amount time if they've been working with the DPA [sic] and ag.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I agree with you. It is a short
period of time, but I'm surprised that they're not here. If they were
here, I'm sure that things would probably be different. But if nothing
else, it will give them time to show up for the next meeting.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: And that's why I
did -- nobody's here in defense of this, so maybe within 60 days they
November 17, 2023
Page 58
might show up.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You have a motion and
second. We can vote on it.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It passes.
Terri?
THE COURT REPORTER: (Indicating.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll just keep going. Terri has
strength in her fingers.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 3, CESD20220003348,
Harry A. Romano and Lisa Jeanne Romano.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MARINOS: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let the record show the
respondent is not present.
Notification?
MS. BUCHILLON: For the record, respondents were notified
regular and certified mail October 24th, 2023, and it was also posted
at the property and courthouse October 24, 2023.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Chuck. Do you want to take over
the case?
November 17, 2023
Page 59
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir. Good afternoon. For the record,
Investigator Chuck Marinos, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CESD20220003348 dealing
with violation of Collier County Land Development Code 04-41, as
amended, Section 10.02.06(B)(1)(a) and Section 10.02.06(B)(1)(e)(i)
located at 5072 28th Place Southwest, Naples, Florida 34116; Folio
36451840003.
Service was given November 18th, 2022.
This case originated as a complaint on April 5th, 2022. On
April 18th, 2022, I met with property owner, Harry Romano, who
showed me the light post in question located in his rear yard. I
observed that upon this post was mounted a light fixture that was
plugged in via removable plug to a G.F.C.I. outlet located on the
outside of the house running through junction boxes and conduits
underground.
A building determination was conducted on May 6th, 2022,
which found that a permit was required for the post.
On May 10th, 2022, an incomplete initial submittal notice letter
was sent to Mr. Romano. A final notice was sent on May 24th,
2022. On November 18th, 2022, a notice of violation was issued to
Mr. Romano with good service. Since that time, no further
permitting efforts have been made.
Original permit expiration date was set for March 2023. As of
today, the permit remains in rejected status, and the light post and
attached electrical remains in place.
I would now like to present case evidence in the following
exhibits: One picture taken by myself on November 18th, 2022,
showing initial conditions; one picture taken by myself on
November 17th, 2023, showing current conditions, and two building
determinations completed by Building Official Jonathan Walsh, the
second one completed by Building Official Fred Clum, stating permit
November 17, 2023
Page 60
required.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the
Board to accept the photos?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make motion to accept the
photos.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Motion and second. All those in
favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay, Chuck.
MR. MARINOS: Starting with the building determination
again. This is the original determination. Permit required, by
Jonathan Walsh, 5/6/2022. Reaffirmed on 4/26/23 by Mr. Fred
Clum stating permit required. Easy enough.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yep.
MR. MARINOS: Picture 1, initial conditions. That is the light
post in question. You can see the electrical junction boxes here, the
conduit that runs underground, and then picture taken yesterday
showing current conditions with the light post in question being right
there.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Have you been in contact with the
respondent?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir, I have.
November 17, 2023
Page 61
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And?
MR. MARINOS: We've met pushback quite a bit.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He doesn't think he's in violation?
MR. MARINOS: Along with an assorted other list of
complaints.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Who made the complaint?
MR. MARINOS: It would be the neighbor -- if you're looking
at this photo -- to the left originally made the complaint. They have
since moved out, and a new person has moved in there.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Was the complaint relative to a
light shining in their house or something like that?
MR. MARINOS: Essentially, that's what the original complaint
was; the light was shining directly in their windows, and then it
evolved into the permit required for the post and lighting fixtures
separately.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Is there a safety issue on the
light post?
MR. MARINOS: I honestly would not know without the
electrical being permitted. It very well could be that electric could
be janky. It could be glued together with Elmer's glue. I have no
idea.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, any comments from
the Board?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion that a
violation exists.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion that a
violation exists.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second. All those
in favor?
November 17, 2023
Page 62
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
You have a suggestion for us, Chuck?
MR. MARINOS: I certainly do, sir.
Recommendation: That the Code Enforcement Board orders
the respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of $59.28
incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days and abate all
violations by:
One, obtaining all required Collier County building permits or
demolition permit, inspections, and completion/occupancy for the
large post anchored into the ground with lighting and electrical
features within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank per day
will be imposed until the violation is abated;
Two, the respondent must notify the Code Enforcement
investigator when the violation has been abated in order to conduct a
final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violation, the county may abate the violation using any
method to bring the violation into compliance and may use the
assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the
provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed
to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any comments or --
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
November 17, 2023
Page 63
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Have the Romanos
appeared before this board before? Have they ever been here?
MR. MARINOS: Have they ever been here?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Have they been written
up on other things?
MR. MARINOS: I can find out for you momentarily, if you
just give me a moment.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes, yes. Yes, sir, they have. This is
not their first permitting violation that has been to a hearing. I can't
remember if it was before the Board of the Special Magistrate, but
they did have a pool issue at one point.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: And they did actually
physically show up?
MR. LETOURNEAU: They have shown up. I do believe
there's some serious health issues at this point probably between both
of them that would maybe curtail them from being here today,
though.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Does anybody want to fill
in the blanks? I'll do it.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'll give it a shot.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You will?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Thirty days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: 59.28.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: 59.28, and 250 per day.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: That doesn't give them enough
time to come before us, because we don't have a meeting in 30 days.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Sixty days, and 250 and
59 and change.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
November 17, 2023
Page 64
second.
MR. NOELL: Just to make sure I understand, operational costs
of 59.28 paid within 30 days?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Correct.
MR. NOELL: Sixty days to get into compliance.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Right.
MR. NOELL: And how much -- or a fine of how much a day?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Two hundred fifty.
MR. NOELL: Thank you, sir.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: All right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: One opposed, okay.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I have another question
on this property.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Who does that radio
tower belong to?
MR. MARINOS: That would be the same gentleman.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Has that been written up?
MR. MARINOS: That is not what my case is on, so I have not
done much research into that. From what I understand, it appears
there may be permits for that structure.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Radio towers don't shine in your
windows; that's the difference.
November 17, 2023
Page 65
Okay. Terri's fingers are holding up.
We have more?
MS. BUCHILLON: We have three more cases. Two are the
same respondent, and that's it; we're done.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case -- we're still under
hearings -- No. 10, CEROW20230002007, Santiago Zavala, Jr., and
Santiago Zavala.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ryan. Let the record show
respondent is not present.
Notification?
MS. BUCHILLON: For the record, respondents were notified
regular and certified mail on November 2nd, 2023, and it was also
posted at the property and courthouse November 3rd, 2023.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Why do I remember this
case? Was this before us recently?
MR. CATHEY: No. This is initial.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It was another case with asphalt, et
cetera. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
MR. CATHEY: That's okay.
For the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CEROW20230002007 dealing
with a violation of Collier County Code of Laws and Ordinances,
Chapter 110, Article II, Division 1, Section 110-31(a), asphalt
driveway installed over a county right-of-way without a permit at
3077 52nd Street Southwest Naples, Florida, 34116; Folio
36439520002.
November 17, 2023
Page 66
Service given on October 9, 2023.
This case was opened by Investigator Rick Migal while
investigating a separate case for a vehicle violation.
On March 7th of 2023, Investigator Migal observed a pile of
gravel in the right-of-way. Follow-up inspection was made on
March 14th, and the gravel was then spread in the right-of-way.
Permit PRROW20230310371 was applied for on March 13th
and showed incomplete address. Investigator Migal spoke with the
owner in May and was monitoring the permit.
Case was transferred to me in July and prepared for a hearing, as
the violation remained, and permit showed incomplete application.
Determination was previously made by building official; permit
was required. I attempted to contact the owner yesterday and had
not received a response.
Owner did submit a corrections response letter to the permit on
November 14th, and the permit is currently under review. There
hasn't been further comment from the Building Department on that
response letter.
For case evidence I have the determination, one photo taken by
Investigator Migal for March 14th of 2023, and the corrections
response letter that was submitted on November 14th.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the
Board to accept the photo?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the
photos.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: (No verbal response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
November 17, 2023
Page 67
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. CATHEY: Here's your driveway that was added. You
can see it going over the right-of-way here in the apron.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is there a pipe under it?
MR. CATHEY: I'm not aware.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is there a swale there?
MR. CATHEY: This would be the drainage easement right
here.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hence the violation. Okay.
MR. CATHEY: In our determination, this is building official
confirming violation was found. Permit is required.
And if the Board would like to see, this was the response letter
that was submitted from the owner. The issue with this driveway is,
according to the Building Department, there's a setback issue with the
way it was installed and, in addition, to have a secondary driveway,
the primary driveway has to be reduced in width. So those are
things the owner, with this letter -- this is what he submitted to see if
it would -- if this would suffice with the Building Department.
Obviously, this has to be reviewed. So that's what --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you want to read that letter into
the record for us?
MR. CATHEY: I can. I can.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I can't see it, to be honest with you.
MR. CATHEY: Sure. The letter reads: This is Santiago
Zavala. This letter is on behalf of 3077 52nd Street Southwest,
Naples, Florida, 34116.
This is a small letter of the corrections that will be made within
November 17, 2023
Page 68
the right-of-way review and inspection division.
Number 1, the second driveway shall be set back to a minimum
of seven and a half feet from side property line measured at the front
of the property line/right-of-way.
Number 2, the width of the second driveway will be reduced to
12 feet before inspection.
Number 3, there will be a sprinkler added to the right-of-way.
If additional payment is required, please advise by email with
payment. His email is listed there.
Number 4, the driveway elevations will be the requirements
prior to inspection. And he just states, at the end, his name, and if
there's any questions, he provides his email and requests to meet with
an inspector if possible, as this is an owner/builder permit, to confirm
any additional guidance.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So anybody want to make
a motion as to whether or not a violation exists?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion that a
violation exists.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: (No verbal response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously. A
violation exists.
November 17, 2023
Page 69
And, Ryan, you have a suggestion for us?
MR. CATHEY: I do. That the Code Enforcement Board
orders the respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of
$59.28 incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days and
abate all violations by:
One, obtaining all required Collier County right-of-way permits
and pass all required inspections for the unpermitted work within the
right-of-way or to restore the right-of-way to its originally permitted
condition within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank dollars
per day will be imposed until the violation is abated;
Two, the respondent must notify the Code Enforcement
investigator when the violation has been abated in order to conduct a
final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violation, the county may abate the violation using any
method to bring the violation into compliance and may use the
assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the
provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed
to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody want to --
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Fill in the blanks.
Ninety days and $75 per day.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And the 59.28 paid within 30
days?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
November 17, 2023
Page 70
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thank you, Ryan.
MR. CATHEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen, is this the last one?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes. Number 12 and No. 13,
CEV20230009358 and CENA20230009367, Ernest J. Valdastri.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We'll hear the first one
first and the second one second.
MS. BUCHILLON: Sure.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MUCHA: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's that on your hand, Joe?
MR. MUCHA: Boxing glove.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Did somebody say "stick up" and
you thought they said "stand up"?
MR. MUCHA: Yeah. I don't know, man. Ever since I've hit
40, it's like my tendons are just tearing left and right, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, we'll order you some
new tendons.
MR. MUCHA: All right. For the record, Supervisor Joseph
Mucha, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CEV20230009358 dealing with
a violation of the Collier County Land Development Code 04-41, as
November 17, 2023
Page 71
amended, Section 4.05.03(A), addressing a repeat violation of
vehicles parking on the grass located at 30 Creek Circle, Naples,
34114; Folio No. 49532360004.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let the record show that the
respondent is not present and, Helen, if you would, the notification.
MS. BUCHILLON: For the record, respondent was notified
regular and certified mail on November 3rd, 2023, and it was also
posted at the property and courthouse November 6th, 2023.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sorry for the interruption, Joe.
Go ahead, sir.
MR. MUCHA: No problem.
So this case was opened due to a complaint that was made
through Commissioner LoCastro's office about the state of this
property. A site visit was conducted on October 19th of 2023 where
I observed vehicles parking on the grass.
Upon researching, this is a repeat violation as Case
CEV20190002393 was adjudicated by the Code Enforcement Board
on April 26th of 2019.
This property -- this property owner also has a history of code
violations going back over 20 years at this same location.
Multiple site visits have been conducted, and the violation
remains, and no contact from the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you have some --
MR. MUCHA: Yes, I'd like to present case evidence in the
following exhibits: I have an aerial photo in the zoning of the
property, the hearing order from the case that I previously mentioned,
and four photographs taken by myself.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Get a motion from the Board to
accept the photos?
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: So moved.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
November 17, 2023
Page 72
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. MUCHA: So this is just showing that this property is
zoned mobile home. And I have the property highlighted here.
This is from the Collier County Property Appraiser. You see it's
kind of a corner lot on a bend.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
MR. MUCHA: Let me get out of that. Oh, geez. Wrong
button.
This was the previous order from 2019 by the Code
Enforcement Board for a repeat violation of recreational vehicles and
vehicles parking on the grass signed by Mr. Kaufman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Who's that?
MR. MUCHA: All right.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Is this an HOA?
MR. MUCHA: I think they have a civic association there, but
they don't have an HOA.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Was that previous case that
you -- were the payments made on that, or is that still sitting in the
ether?
MR. MUCHA: I'm not 100 percent sure. I'm thinking
probably not, knowing the history.
November 17, 2023
Page 73
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: There you go.
MR. MUCHA: So this is just showing a vehicle parked on the
grass on my initial visit. Another vehicle. Same visit, different
vehicle parked on the grass. This was on the 30th of October,
vehicle parked on the grass. And this was November 6th, same
vehicle parked on the grass.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Do you know if these
vehicles are driven daily and they come and go, or is it a storage?
MR. MUCHA: This gentleman has probably about 10 vehicles
on the property. I mean, there's a couple that he primarily seems to
drive, and then the others are just there.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Was there a civil penalty on the
last case, do you know?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir, there was.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can you tell me the amount of
that?
MR. MUCHA: Let me pull that back up, sorry. Civil penalty
of $2,000.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Was that paid?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He doesn't know.
MR. MUCHA: I don't think so. I would say no, if I was a
betting man.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let's start out with does a
violation exist.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: I'll make a motion a violation
exists.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion --
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
November 17, 2023
Page 74
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- and a second that a violation
exists. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Do you have a suggestion for us?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir. That the Code Enforcement Board
orders the respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of
$59.28 incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days and
abate all violations by:
One, paying a civil penalty in the amount of blank for the repeat
violation within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, removing vehicles parked on the front yard grass area to a
stabilized subsurface base or plastic grid stabilization system covered
by surface areas made of concrete, crushed stone, crushed shell,
asphalt pavers or turf parking system specifically designated for
parking of automobiles, not to exceed 40 percent of front yard
parking within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank per day
will be imposed until the violation is abated;
Three, the respondent must notify the Code Enforcement
investigator when the violation has been abated in order to conduct a
final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violation, the county may abate the violation using any
method to bring the violation into compliance and may use the
assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the
November 17, 2023
Page 75
provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed
to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I'd like to make the motion
on this case.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Just for the record, the fines have not
been paid on that last case.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. 59.28 be paid within 30
days, 60 days, or a $200-a-day fine, and civil penalty of $5,000.
MR. NOELL: And, sir, if I can ask, since that fine is in line
with a repeat violation, would you also consider making part of the
motion that a repeat -- or a violation had occurred within five years of
this violation?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. NOELL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll include that.
MR. NOELL: Thank you.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: He might show up now.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If he didn't pay the last fine, I
would ask questions of -- but it doesn't matter.
November 17, 2023
Page 76
Okay. Joe, next case. Same person.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MUCHA: I do.
Okay. For the record, Supervisor Joseph Mucha, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CENA20230009367 dealing
with a violation of the Collier County Code of Laws and Ordinances,
Chapter 54, Article VI, Section 54-181, and Collier County Land
Development Code 04-41, as amended, Section 2.02.03 addressing a
repeat violation of outside storage and litter located at 30 Creek
Circle, Naples, 34114; Folio No. 49532360004.
Service was given on October 23rd of 2023.
Case was opened due to a complaint through Commissioner
LoCastro's office about the state of this property. A site visit was
conducted on October 19th of 2023 where I observed outside storage
and litter consisting of, but not limited to, cardboard, metal, propane
tank, tools, hoses, and other miscellaneous items.
Upon researching, this is a repeat violation of Case
CENA20190004829 adjudicated by the Code Enforcement Board on
June 27th of 2019, and Case CENA20220008442 adjudicated by the
Code Enforcement Board on October 27th of 2022.
Again, property owners had a history of code violations going
back over 20 years at this same location. Multiple site visits have
been conducted and the violation remains, and no contact from the
property owner.
I'd like to present case evidence in the following exhibits: The
aerial and zoning of the property. Do you need to see that again or --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No.
MR. MUCHA: Okay -- two previous orders. This was the one
November 17, 2023
Page 77
from 2019 for high grass and outside storage of litter. Found in
violation. Signed by Mr. Kaufman. This is the one from last year.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: We didn't make a motion to
accept these.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, take a -- just a little backtrack.
Get a motion from the Board to accept these photos.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: So moved.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It passes unanimously. Late, but
it's there.
MR. MUCHA: So last year you guys found him in violation
again for repeat violation, and a civil penalty of $250 was issued.
Okay. And I'll get to the --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Not paid.
MR. MUCHA: -- photos. Again, here you can just see there's
just a bunch of stuff. And it seems about once a year we get a
complaint from one of the neighbors. They probably come back
from up north and, it's usually around this time of year we get a
complaint about the state of the property. Just -- again, just stuff in
the yard.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: How big a property is that? That's
a --
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Two acres.
MR. MUCHA: It's a nice size. Almost, like -- I'd say, like, a
November 17, 2023
Page 78
double lot because it's kind of on the corner. I mean, it's maybe --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Go back to the aerial real quick and --
MR. IANDIMARINO: I think it's .13.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, it's not very big.
MR. IANDIMARINO: Point 13 acres.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Joe, has he been cited by
the HOA or --
MR. MUCHA: Again, they don't have, like, a traditional HOA.
I think they have a civic group here that people can pay to be
involved, but it's not voluntarily.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: So do they have the
ability to fine the residents?
MR. MUCHA: I don't think so, because they probably would
have done it over the last 20 years. They always give it to us. So I
don't think -- if they have anything, it's certainly not anything strong.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Is this property homesteaded?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, it is homesteaded. I mean, to put it
bluntly, it's 10 pounds of stuff in a five-pound bag at this property.
It's just squeezing out the sides of --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: In order to be -- let me get done,
and then I have a couple of things to say.
So do we want to find that they're in violation?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Make a motion that a violation
exists.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
MR. NOELL: And is it a repeat violation? Is that part of the
motion?
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, that it's a repeat.
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Yes.
MR. NOELL: That it's a repeat. Thank you.
November 17, 2023
Page 79
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Repeat within five years.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Before you give us your suggestion...
MR. MUCHA: Sure.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: This is only occupied part the
year?
MR. MUCHA: By this gentleman? I think he lives there full
time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MUCHA: I mean, I don't know. I can't say that for a
fact, but...
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: He meant his next-door
neighbor comes.
MR. MUCHA: I think the neighbor -- when they come
down -- usually around this time of year people come back from up
north, and then that's when the complaints start coming in.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The reason I ask is, if it's
homesteaded, you can't be here two months out of the year to qualify
for homestead exemption.
MR. MUCHA: I'm pretty sure he's a full-time resident there.
November 17, 2023
Page 80
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you have a suggestion
for us on this?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir. That the Code Enforcement Board
orders the respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of
$59.28 incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days, and
abate all violations by:
One, paying a civil penalty in the amount of blank for the repeat
violation within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, removing all unauthorized accumulation of litter and all
other items not permitted for outside storage to a site designated for
such use or store desired items in a completely enclosed structure
within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank will be imposed
for each day the violation continues;
Three, the respondent must notify the Code Enforcement
investigator when the violation has been abated in order to conduct
the final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violation, the county may abate the violation using any
method to bring the violation into compliance and may use the
assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the
provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed
to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me try on this one, and then I
have a little sidenote. 59.28 paid within 30 days, $200-a-day fine,
60 days to come into compliance, and a civil penalty of $5,000.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Having said that, this is
homesteaded property, but part of the order is that this can be -- these
people are obviously violating the code. They don't show up at the
hearings, they don't fix the problem, and they can just do this forever.
This needs to be strongly -- well, I guess the commissioner is
involved in this also -- send the police out there to do something with
November 17, 2023
Page 81
this. So I just wanted to put that on the record.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I have a comment.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Question. If it's a
homesteaded trailer, it looks like the fines are going to add up to
more than the value of the property, which we can't touch to begin
with. So what avenue does the county have? The fines cannot be
collected, and we can't -- and we can't seize the property. We could
lien it.
MR. NOELL: In these kinds of cases, the system is only
designed to do what the system is designed to do. So in some cases,
it's the equivalent of trying to fit a square peg through a round hole.
Another legal mechanism that either neighbors or another entity
could do would be to pursue an injunction civilly with the court.
That, of course, is beyond the purview of this jurisdiction that we
have. But that would be, you know, a purview of either neighbors or
other interested parties who could -- you know, if they believed and a
judge agreed that it -- that the use of that property arose to the level
of such an interference with other people's use of their property --
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: The quality of life of the
neighbors.
MR. NOELL: -- then that would be, of course, you know, a
judicial determination considering several factors. So that would be
more of the square hole for the square peg situation that this is.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The question I have, then, why do
we put in the order that it can be abated by the Sheriff -- help to abate
this by using the Sheriff? That's part of the order.
MR. NOELL: Well -- and that would be part of the
consideration internally for staff on whether that is
something -- there's two parts to that, is, one, does that rise to the
level of a referral to the Sheriff's Department? And then, of course,
November 17, 2023
Page 82
the Sheriff's Department makes a determination of there's no criminal
activity here, there's nothing for us to do, and often you'll see that in
these situations. That's a civil action between neighbors or another
interested entity.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So did we vote on this yet,
Terri?
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No. All those in favor of the
motion that I made? I'll repeat it if you want.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, please.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The motion is 59.28 paid within 30
days, a fine of $200 a day, after 60 days, and a $5,000 civil penalty.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: And there was one more
amendment.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: You said, I think, 250. Wasn't
it 250?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: It was 250.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Two fifty, I'm sorry.
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: That's okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I just to say about the Sheriff's Office
thing, is that that -- you guys have been here long enough to know
that's our standard recommendation. We just want to have every
available means to abate a violation afterwards. I'm not saying that
this one will be done that way, but we just want to cover all our bases
down the road if we have to get to that situation.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, let's vote on this, and then I'll
give you my final comment.
All those in favor?
BOARD MEMBER ELROD: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
November 17, 2023
Page 83
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
BOARD MEMBER BHATLA: Aye.
BOARD MEMBER JOHNSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
This is referred to the County Commissioner, so this is going to
get eyes on this, and maybe it will get resolved one way or the other
since it's gone up the line already.
MR. LETOURNEAU: We'll see.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right. Okay.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: I have a question --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: -- for Jeff. Can't the
county remove the eyesores and lien the property for the cost of the
removal and wherever storage it's going to end up at?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think, theoretically --
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: That seems to be the
complaint.
MR. LETOURNEAU: We could -- I'd have to discuss this with
the County Attorneys before we went onto improved homesteaded
property and removed any items off there. That would be more of a
County Attorney question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's all -- when you lien it, you lien
the boat that's there, that gets part of -- all the property that's owned
by this person gets liened.
MR. LETOURNEAU: You know, Code Enforcement's tool is
that we lien a property, and your normal citizen is going to follow
through and try to get that lien relieved, but obviously we're not
dealing with somebody that's a normal citizen here.
November 17, 2023
Page 84
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's correct.
Okay. Thank you, Joe.
MR. MUCHA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Helen, we are d-o-n-e?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: May I ask a technical
question?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You can.
MS. CURLEY: Just to the attorney. You know, some of these
pictures we are seeing are drone pictures, correct? I fly drones. So
there are a lot of restrictions now. You have to be at a certain height.
Now, are we aware of all that, so they don't challenge these pictures?
MR. NOELL: I would defer to the County Attorney's Office on
that because that would be advising staff to the legalities. I'm sure
that they're in compliance, but...
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: I'm sure.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I believe that -- we do not use drones.
That's definitely been struck down as a tool for Code Enforcement;
however, I do think there's a height limit on photographs, and I think
the aerials that we show are high enough to be used in --
BOARD MEMBER AYASUN: High enough. I just wanted
to make sure.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have no meeting in
December.
MS. BUCHILLON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So our next meeting is
January 25th.
MS. BUCHILLON: 25th, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Yes.
BOARD MEMBER RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, where do we pick
up our turkeys?
C-0-DE,ENFORCEMENT BOARD
E FMAN, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT &
COMPTROLLER
These minutes approved by the Board on � a/ as
presented )� or as corrected �--1
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.