CCPC Minutes 10/19/2023 DRAFT
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples, Florida, October 19, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier
County Planning Commission, in and for the County of
Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date
at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the
Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
Edwin Fryer, Chairman
Robert L. Klucik, Jr. (participating remotely)
Paul Shea
Randy Sparrazza
Chuck Schumacher
ABSENT:
Joe Schmitt, Vice Chair
Christopher T. Vernon
Amy Lockhart, Collier County School Board Representative
ALSO PRESENT:
Raymond V. Bellows, Zoning Manager
Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning Director
Heidi Ashton-Cicko, Managing Assistant County Attorney
Derek Perry, County Attorney's Office
P R O C E E D I N G S
MR. BOSI: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you, Mr. Bosi.
It's October 19, 2023, at 9 a.m., and so this meeting of
the Collier County Planning Commission is now in session.
Everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Commissioner Klucik, are you
on the phone, sir?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Calling Commissioner Klucik;
are you on the phone, sir?
MR. SABO: He is not.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. He's not. Okay.
Well, let me know if and when he does. In the meantime,
we have a quorum, barely, so -- but we've got a quorum.
All right. Mr. Secretary, please call the roll, sir.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Chairman Fryer?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Here.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Vice Chair Schmitt, no.
Secretary Shea is here.
Commissioner Vernon, no.
Commissioner Klucik, we haven't heard yet. It doesn't
sound like he's on yet.
Commissioner Sparrazza?
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Here.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Commissioner
Schumacher?
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Here.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Ms. Lockhart, not here.
Mr. Chair, we have a quorum of four.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
Addenda to the agenda -- oh, I should also note that
those absences, I was aware of them, and they are all
excused.
Addenda to the agenda, the first thing I think we ought
to do is bring to mind the fact that every October, as a matter
of tradition for that particular month, we consider election or
reelection of our officers. And so without objection, I'd like
to put that on -- this being our second and last October
meeting, I'd like to put that on as 10 or 11, which is new
business. 11A, election of officers. Without objection,
that's what we'll do.
Mr. Bellows, any other addenda to the agenda?
MR. BELLOWS: No other changes to the agenda.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Planning Commission absences, our next meeting is on
November 2, 2023. Does anyone know whether he will not
be able to attend that meeting?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Good. And the one
after that is November 16, same question.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. Approval of the
minutes, we have one set of minutes today. Those are the
minutes of September 22, 2023. Any corrections, changes,
or addition to those minutes?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: If not, I'd entertain a motion.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: I'll motion to
accept.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: If not, all those in favor of
approving those minutes, please say aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: They pass unanimously.
BCC reports, Mr. Bellows.
MR. BELLOWS: Yes. On October 10th, the Board
of County Commissioners heard the Cocohatchee Bay PUD
amendment, and that was approved 5-0.
On the summary agenda, the Rod & Gun Club
conditional use and compact rural development both were
approved on the summary agenda.
Then the rezone from Estates to PUD for self-storage
facility that was on Collier Boulevard and Green, that was
continued to the December 12th BCC meeting to allow the
applicant to work out some revised plans to reduce the
square footage.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: And I just got a note from our folks in the
back. I think Mr. Klucik -- Commissioner Klucik may be
online right now.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Commissioner Klucik, are you
there, sir?
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. We'll take a vote
on you, just if you wouldn't mind giving us a reason.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Yes. I have a client
whose closing keeps getting delayed, and we could close
this morning, or we could close tomorrow, and I just don't
know.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: I understand. Unforeseen
business circumstances. Without objection, we will
approve your participation by phone for that reason. Thank
you very much.
And let's see. Chairman's report, none today.
Consent agenda, none today.
***Public hearings, advertised, our first hearing will be
on companion items PL202300012389, and that's the
government --
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yes, Commissioner Klucik.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Just -- did you already
vote on it?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: I did it without objection.
Would you prefer we have a vote? We will.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: No, no, that's fine. I
guess I wasn't paying close enough attention because I'm not
in the room.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yeah. I'm just trying to move
things along; I'm sorry. There was no -- there was no
objection from the four commissioners in this room.
So this is the government public service residential
tourist and commercial subdistrict small-scale Growth
Management Plan amendment and its companion,
PL2023 -- you know I said three zeros for the first one, and
that was wrong. It's two zeros. So I'm going to reread the
small-scale Growth Management Plan amendment PL
number.
It's 20230012389, and then its companion, the
MPUD-A, is PL20230012392. Amazingly, we're getting
into the two zeros department. And Mr. Bosi indicates that
if we're not careful, we'll find ourselves into one zero before
the end of the year, but I hope not.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: There are three zeros
shown on the --
CHAIRMAN FRYER: I know. That's a typo.
Okay. All those wishing to testify in this matter,
please rise to be sworn in by the court reporter.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm
the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the
affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Disclosures, starting with the secretary, please.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Staff materials only.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Matters of public record,
meeting with staff, and a communication with the
representative of the applicant.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Staff materials and
a conversation with Mr. Yovanovich.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Agenda packet
and a site visit.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Good. And I keep
looking down there, but it's all we are.
Oh, Commissioner Klucik.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Staff material and staff
meeting.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Sir, I apologize.
When you're out of sight, I really can't say you're out of the
mind, but for that one moment, you were.
All right. He just -- he indicated his -- oh, yeah -- oh,
could we get some more gain, some more volume, on
Commissioner Klucik? Is that possible? While that's
happening, the Chair recognizes Mr. Arnold.
MR. ARNOLD: Good morning. Thank you. I'm
Wayne Arnold with Grady Minor, a certified planner.
Here with us today representing Stix Development is
Ryan Hyler and David Tuttle; the land-use counsel is Rich
Yovanovich; I have Mike Delate from our office, who's the
civil engineer on the project; and Jim Banks has performed
the traffic analysis.
And I have a lot of slides I can go through, but I think
what I'll try to do is do a summary, and then if you have
questions, we can get into more of the meatier detail.
So this project is part of what was originally zoned in
2019 with a new subdistrict, which I won't reread the title,
because it's a little cumbersome, and then the Mixed-Use
Planned Unit Development incorporated the Golden Gate
Golf Course, which the county acquired, as well as the hotel
property, which is still under separate ownership. And if all
goes well today and through the board, Stix Development
would purchase the hotel tract, which was set up to be the
residential tourist tract as part of the subdistrict and planned
development.
It's outlined. I'm sure many of you -- the hotel's been
here for, you know, decades, and it's currently vacant.
They vacated the premises.
And so the intent here is to take the hotel building that
has about 150-some-odd rooms and convert that into up to
215 efficiency rental units. And part of that is that we've
adjusted the language in the subdistrict, and we've adjusted
the language in the PUD document to put income
restrictions on many of these housing units. The
commitment's for 22.8 percent of the units to be income
restricted. Half of that number would be at the 80 percent
or less rental rates, and then the other half of that
22.8 percent would be at 100 percent or less. So the
commitment is there for there to be this income restriction,
and then we have a provision that all units would be rented
for folks that are at the 120 percent rental rate.
So the other unencumbered with the income restriction
are still going to be controlled at the 120 percent or less of
the income guidelines.
So, again, we held a neighborhood information meeting
several months ago. We did it in conjunction with Golden
Gate Civic Association. It was pretty well attended, and
just in the last week, Mr. Hyler also presented again to the
Golden Gate City Civic Association. I wasn't in attendance
at that meeting, but I don't think there's any objection from
the civic association, and I think that there seems to be a lot
of interest in making this project happen because of the
conversion to some much-needed housing in our
community.
So that's kind of, in a nutshell, what we're doing.
There's -- you know, we have one deviation that's for a
parking deviation to allow, essentially, one space per unit.
These will all be efficiency units, so we think one space is
sufficient. The parking lot is in need of some repair.
We're working with the client on coming up with a revised
parking lot layout. We're also working with Collier County
Government, who owns the little outbuilding right on
Golden Gate Parkway. That's going to be converted into a
training center for the school district. And there's going to
be some cross-sharing, and there's a cross-easement parking
agreement in place today that's probably going to be
modified at some point.
Again, this is to convert the existing buildings and the
clubhouse. The community will have a swimming pool,
fitness facilities, all the other typical amenities found in our
newer apartment complexes in Collier County.
And I think, in a nutshell, that's what we're attempting
to do, and I will be happy to answer questions if you have
any.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Questions from the Planning
Commission?
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Why do you term the 49
units one thing and then the 166 rent? You use different
terms, but they're all affordable housing under 120 percent
of AMI, correct?
MR. ARNOLD: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: But why aren't -- why do
you differentiate the 49 from the 166?
MR. ARNOLD: I'll let Rich describe.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: I know the answer, but I
don't -- I'd like to hear it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich. We do not have an income restriction on
those units, but we have a rent restriction on those units.
We, from the business model standpoint, could not commit
to filling all of those with income-qualified people.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Yes. If I may, I
thought I saw this in the write-up, but if you could, please
confirm. The main entrance will be off of Golden Gate
Parkway. And is there a secondary auxiliary exit/entrance
onto Collier Boulevard towards the east, southeast corner of
the property?
MR. ARNOLD: So north is to your right on this plan,
and you can see all these access arrows. It's a little
complicated, but there are a couple of access points on
Golden Gate Parkway, and we'll be working with the county
to try to do some sharing for the school's resource center.
There is an ingress/egress easement that goes across the
county property that is to our east and, ultimately, out to
Collier Boulevard. That's in place today. You could
technically drive across it.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: I was on it today.
MR. ARNOLD: It will probably be limited for
emergency access for our parcel.
The county -- as part of the larger picture here, as you
go down the -- down Collier Boulevard, you can see there
are other access points for the balance of the property. This
property will have sharing with -- through the tract that was
set up to be a community facility tract where the school
district and the county will be developing their facility. So
we'll have emergency access to Collier, and then we'll have
our primary access on Golden Gate Parkway.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Great. And you
plan to continue the -- heading west on Golden Gate
Parkway, the left-turn lane, into your project? And I'm
sorry; I'm looking at your information in the packet, which
is an aerial view --
MR. ARNOLD: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: -- which to me is a
little easier than -- yes, sir, that one. So you're planning to
maintain that left turn on Golden Gate, correct?
MR. ARNOLD: I'll let Mr. Hyler speak to that.
MR. HYLER: Ryan Hyler with Stix Development.
So we are in communication with the county, and
eventually the county is redoing Golden Gate Parkway.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Right.
MR. HYLER: And we do not yet know how that will
ultimately impact ingress and egress. The county is
planning on building a loop road on the opposite side of the
training facility, and, ultimately, we will have access to that.
And so it's more of a long-term strategy, working with the
county to determine how that entire area gets redeveloped.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Great. Thank
you for your time.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Anyone else up here?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Commissioner Klucik,
anything from you, sir?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: I take that as a no.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: No.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Mr. Yovanovich,
would you approach, please. Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I fell like I'm going to the
principal's office.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: We'll see. We had a brief
conversation this morning, and right now I just want a yes or
no, and you'll have a full opportunity to present your point
of view. Any change since we spoke earlier?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. Here is my concern
with this. As everybody knows who takes any interest in
this stuff and follows the work of the Planning Commission,
I am a firm believer in affordable housing with special
emphasis on workforce housing and, more particular,
essential services workforce housing. That is a very
important consideration for me, and without it, I'm not
altogether comfortable that just naked affordable housing
without any other objectives to be served is entirely within
the best interests of Collier County.
And, recently, at this last meeting or the one before, we
had the Ascend people come before us, and here's the
language that they agreed to: Preference to set aside
units -- that's what they call the units in question -- shall be
given to essential services personnel, ESP. ESP means
natural persons or families, at least one of whom is
employed as police or fire personnel; a childcare worker, a
teacher, or other educational personnel; healthcare
personnel; or public employee.
The period of time the rental will be reserved and
advertised for ESP persons will be a minimum of 90 days
from the date the unit is first available and 45 days
thereafter. In the event that no ESP person rents a set-aside
unit, then the unit may be offered to the general public
non-ESP but shall remain at the rent and income as
restricted.
At minimum, advertising will consist of providing
written notice to the Collier County Community and Human
Services Division, housing operations, and the human
resource departments for local hospitals, the Collier County
Public School District, Collier County Government, the City
of Naples, the City of Marco Island, all EMS and fire
districts, and the Collier County Sheriff's Office.
Now, as it happens, several days ago, an article -- well,
October 17th, two days ago, an article was posted on the
FOX4 website by a reporter called Bella Line who was
quoting some representatives of the Collier County School
District, and the headline of this article is Collier County
Schools Leans on Workforce Housing as Housing Crisis
Continues. And I would -- I would submit that the problem
which is clear and present in the school district also is
present in such services as the fire districts, EMS, shortage
of nurses, shortage of other essential workers, government
workers.
And these are -- you know, without saying anything
negative about providing housing for people who cannot
otherwise afford it -- and I'm not saying anything about that;
I'm just putting a positive spin on it. I think we should, at
all times, absent extraordinary circumstances, be requiring
these applicants to reach out and do their very best to get
these units leased by essential services personnel. Without
that, I'm not sure there's significant benefit to the county.
And so I had this conversation by text exchange with
Mr. Yovanovich yesterday and then again briefly this
morning.
So to my way of thinking -- and he's going to have full
opportunity to respond. But to my way of thinking, this
application should be supplemented with some meaningful
opportunities for Collier County's essential services
personnel, because they're very important to Collier County,
that they would have a first opportunity and on a realistic
timeline.
And in Ascend we had offered or suggested 90 days
from the CO, because you could get that notice out -- you
know, you didn't need to wait for the building to be
completed, and then 45 days afterward so that it wasn't -- it
wasn't out not being rented for a long period of time.
So I feel very strongly about that. I don't know how
other members of the Planning Commission feel. No one's
lighting up, so -- whoops. Now we've got -- I'm going to
hear from other commissioners, and then you'll have all the
time you want, Mr. Yovanovich, to respond.
Commissioner Schumacher.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Good morning,
Rich.
So these are efficiencies. We've heard one parking
spot per unit, so we're looking at -- it ideally will be one
individual per unit. So if we look at those income -- what is
it? -- 22 percent at 80 percent, the other half at 100, and then
a cap at 120 percent, what are those income levels for that
one person to qualify?
MR. HYLER: I can tell you rough numbers without
looking it up.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Okay. That's
fine.
MR. HYLER: So the -- did you have it?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'll do it.
For one person making 80 percent of the Collier
County median income, that is for someone making
$55,900.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: 55,900.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Now, I'm going to have to
extrapolate because we don't have one for the 100 percent.
So the 120 percent is 83,880. So if we add 83,880 to
55,900, divided by two, that would be an estimate of the
income threshold for -- and I can't do that in my head. That
would be the income threshold for one. Now -- and
numbers change a little bit because there could -- 69,690.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Now, there could be -- some of
these units could be occupied by two people.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Got it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So -- and we anticipate that
some of that will occur as well.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Some of that
will occur, okay.
I agree a lot with what the Chair's saying with a portion
set aside for our essential service providers here in the
county. I think, being married to a teacher, obviously, I talk
to a lot of teachers. I can tell you that you are -- your
teachers coming into the industry fresh out of college, yes,
they are looking -- they are looking for something to rent.
When you start getting further down, they're looking for
something to own, which is a lot of what the issue is in
between the teachers in the district. And I know their
union's working very hard on that right now.
And I think the same goes for the other industries as
well. I mean, we had -- we had a nurse from NCH in the
last meeting testify that she had left her position when they
offered a $2 raise over $35 an hour. I mean, that's almost
80,000 in itself.
So I think this housing will not only service those that
are starting out in the industry, whether it be with the fire
district or with the Sheriff's Office or teachers, but I also see
the need for other providers. We've got a shortage in our
hospitality workers right now. We've got a shortage in our
site providers in our high-rises in our large HOAs. We've
got a shortage across the board.
So I'm on the fence of requesting that they build this
into the language when I see how short the other industries
are, in talking to those members.
So I'm on the fence on that one, but I think this is a
great project. I think it's going to serve a lot of our Collier
residents, but I'm not sure if that language is needed
specifically to this project.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Let me clarify, and then I'll
call on the other commissioners. I'm not saying it should be
held out only for those people, just that they have a first
crack at it.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Got it.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: After that, the financial
constraints remain in place, and it's opened up to everyone
who can meet those constraints.
All right. Commissioner Sparrazza.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
I do agree with much of what you spoke about just
now. As a technical question directly -- directed to you, is
this something that you would like to evolve into something
that's on all programs that have affordable housing?
Because I would wonder if it's fair to suggest or even try to
impose this on this project but not others. Maybe that's
something we can have a more in-depth conversation on.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Of course I'm keeping an open
mind on future cases that come in, because they're decided
on their own facts.
But my mindset at this point would be to ask for it
unless -- and to insist upon it unless there's some good
reason not to. And I can't at this point -- I haven't set out to
endeavor to think of what those reasons might be, but
certainly there could well be, and I would keep an open
mind on that. But this project that's coming forth to us so
soon on the heels of Ascend, where I thought we came up to
a very good resolution, I think -- and we'll hear. And, you
know, maybe Mr. Yovanovich is going to have reasons why
this is inappropriate, and we'll give him every opportunity to
reply. But -- so that's, I guess -- I think I've answered your
question. I hope I have. Well --
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: I guess we'll take
each project on its own then. Very good.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yeah, oh, absolutely, always,
always. I mean, that's our responsibility.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: And is that
because of this price point of the project here and the size of
the facility being, more or less, a studio apartment; whereas,
for example, Habitat, which is a larger structure, a larger
home, may have different qualifications for the type of
folks?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. That's a perfect
example of where --
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: -- the essential services
personnel would not play a role in that, or Habitat, and there
could be a myriad of others. And so, you know, I pledge to
keep an open mind on each one.
I reviewed this material carefully, and, again, I'm going
to listen carefully to what Mr. Yovanovich says, but
that's -- I wanted people to know where I am on this project
as of this moment.
Mr. Shea -- Commissioner Shea.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: I view it like you. I
would view it case by case and giving the essential service
personnel just a little bit of a head start. I mean, that's the
key people in the county, so I would absolutely support it in
this case because of the project, and I might not support it on
another project.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: That's why I am, too.
All right, Mr. Yovanovich. What's your thought on it?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I'm glad the Planning
Commission agrees that each project needs to be viewed
individually because it seems like the latest agreement for a
developer because it fit into their business model becomes
the new standard, and I think that that is the wrong way to
look at each individual project.
This is a hotel that has been condemned by the county.
It's in really poor shape. It's going to cost $35 million to
build this project. My client has a lot of money at risk, and,
frankly, the more restrictions you put on his ability to rent
units makes the ability to get money to fund the project
harder and harder.
My client thinks that -- and I've heard this from others,
is, we all love teachers, we all love firefighters, but we also
like to go out to dinner, and we like to eat, and we have a lot
of other people in this county that need housing as well.
So I think it's unfair to require every project to hold
units aside for a 45-day period with the potential of having
no rent on that unit because we want to give teachers and
firefighters the first shot at renting this unit.
My client won't agree to it. It affects the business
model. It's a -- if the unit stays vacant for 45 days, worst
case scenario, they all stay vacant, it's a million eight.
Now, if the county wants to lease up the units, a master
lease, and they could take the risk of making sure that
essential service personnel lease those units, we're all in.
But my client has thought about it, looked at it, and
from a business model standpoint, can't agree to hold units
off the market for a 45-day period hoping that, quickly, a
teacher, firefighter, or other essential service personnel
person will rent the unit.
Interestingly, the county's actual definition of essential
service personnel is not only those people; it's everybody
with a low income. So I don't know why we've decided
that we're going to limit or reduce the definition of essential
service personnel from what the county has actually adopted
as that definition of essential service personnel.
My client is absolutely willing to provide the same
advertising provision that's in Ascend; we'll do that. And
we'll -- on the initial lease-up, we'll -- because we have 90
days before we -- before anybody can move in to, you know,
give essential service personnel a first crack at the units.
But once we get -- once we get past that 90-day period, the
business model doesn't work if we have to continue to let
units remain vacant because we've limited who the universe
is of people of who can rent that unit.
So that's our -- that's our position. We understand, if
that's not good enough, well, then we don't have a project,
and we don't have these 215 units on the market, and we just
have to walk away. It's purely economics. And the -- if
you've noticed, the private sector has stepped up and come
up with projects to try to address the affordable housing unit
[sic] in an economical feasible way. You heard the one
project for Bembridge, which was a county project, I forget
how many units that was, but you're not going to get too
many Bembridges from this point forward. You're going to
have to rely on my client and others to figure out how to
economically make it work. We can't -- we cannot meet the
Ascend requirements other than what I just mentioned.
And with that, that's where we are. And we -- vote up
the project or vote down the project, but that's the way it's
going to -- that's what we're going to say.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Commissioner Schumacher.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: I typically don't
agree with Rich, but I kind of do today.
I have in the past -- excuse me -- managed low-income
housing in Fort Myers, and we've taken it through developer
turnover or rehab projects, and the marketing that was done
typically would go first to those industries that are around
the county: Sheriff's Office, school board, so on and so
forth. Because if you market to those first, it's an easier
way to fill those units versus doing a public advertisement.
Having said that, we also heard in the last meeting from
a young lady from Golden Gate City who's a business owner
who spoke of the rising rents within Golden Gate City that
were pushing people out of Golden Gate City, correct? So I
think that this also services that local community where
you've got neighbors moving out because they can't afford
the rent anymore, and it brings them back into their
community.
My question for Rich is -- it could be for the
planner -- what's the ETA from the time you get approval at
the Board of County Commissioners meeting to get your
first unit up and ready for occupancy?
MR. HYLER: So we believe that from time we get
approval at the Board, we're probably 120 days to permits.
From there, we believe we'll deliver -- so there's four
buildings on the site. We'll deliver those in stages. We
think we're probably seven, eight months from the first
building. So end of 2024 with the remaining three
buildings lagging by five to six months. So Q1 of '25.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Got it.
So -- all right. So we're still a year and a half, which is, as
with most projects, where we're looking for that.
I'll have a question for Cormac here later on that, but
that's all I have. Thank you, Rich.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Commissioner Shea.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: So I just wanted to make
sure. I understand what you're saying is you won't provide
any advance notice, but you will provide specific notice; in
other words, when you start advertising, you might send a
notice to the essential service personnel employers?
MR. YOVANOVICH: We will --
COMMISSIONER SHEA: That's what I think you
said.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's the Ascend commitment
was to provide --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Yeah. Just won't hold it
open for a period of time for just essential service.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We said we would do that for
the initial lease-up, the first 90-day.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Oh, okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: After that -- if the units aren't
filled in 90 days in the initial lease-up, we can lease it to
anybody who meets the income categories, and from that
point forward, anybody who meets those income categories.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Anyone else want to be heard
on that?
COMMISSIONER SHEA: I'm okay with what Rich
just proposed.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Go ahead, Commissioner
Klucik.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Yeah. I'm inclined
to -- you know, to agree with Mr. Yovanovich and the
petitioner, and I think he's proposing something that's
reasonable and that really does -- obviously, you know, if
there is an acute need, which I think -- you know, I think
there is, in the beginning, that acute need can be addressed
immediately, and that's a -- that three months to be able to
do that, I think, is a great opportunity and -- you know, and
those who really fit that category can, you know, swoop in,
take advantage of it. There's plenty of time for the news to
circulate, and then at that point, I agree, it becomes quite a
burden on the -- you know, on the developer here from a
business standpoint to just hold units open hoping that, you
know, someone's going to come along.
So I would be willing to support what Mr. Yovanovich
has suggested as an alternate to an across-the-board
Band-Aid.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Thank you.
Question for the applicant: Your standard lease, what
kind of termination notice do you provide in it?
MR. HYLER: Do you want to speak to that, David?
MR. TUTTLE: David Tuttle with Stix.
We normally have a 60-day notice provision. You
know, I think to further address it, you can imagine a
situation where maybe a unit's vacated, somebody skips or
so forth, so we have a unit available for rent. We have a
qualified person there who wants to rent it today, but, yet,
with the set-aside, we would have to tell them to go away
and come back in 45 or 46 days because we can't rent it to
them today.
I just think that would put our staff in a terrible
position, just from a humanitarian standpoint, that if
somebody desperately needs a home to turn them way for
preference for somebody else in the county. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Let's say that you get a notice
from a tenant that the tenant is not going to re-up. Would
you be agreeable at that point to sending notice to essential
services personnel but not holding the property off on the
market?
MR. TUTTLE: Yeah. We're definitely going to have
a pipeline to essential services folks because we honestly
think they're most likely the people to come and want to live
there. Organically, that's what we have in our other
projects.
You know, we have schoolteachers, support staff at
schools, nurses, et cetera. I can't imagine it would be any
different here organically.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. So let me just be sure,
because maybe we can work this out. In the case of the
CO, the initial tenant, you'd do 90 days because you could
start that well over 90 days before the CO?
MR. TUTTLE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: So that, I think, is good.
Now, in the -- you've got 60 days' notice in your lease.
Let's say that a tenant comes in and gives you 60 days'
notice, and let's also say, just to make it interesting, that
you've got somebody outside waiting at the door who wants
to lease immediately. Would you still be willing to send
out a notice and maybe give it five days?
MR. TUTTLE: And I'm not trying to be
argumentative to this point. It's just, from a managerial
standpoint, to have a 45-day or 5-day standoff just makes it
very, very difficult to manage. And, you know, every day
that a unit is vacant that we don't collect rent makes the
project less affordable and attainable for the general public.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. Well, I have one
more shot here to try to see if we can --
MR. TUTTLE: Sorry.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: -- come to an agreement. In
addition to the 90 days, which we've talked about, let's say
that you get a notice from a tenant that the tenant's going to
vacate in 60 days, and there is nobody else waiting at the
door; would you then be willing to send out notifications
and not postpone re-leasing, but just send out notifications to
the essential services personnel and then let nature run its
course?
MR. TUTTLE: Yes.
MR. HYLER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. All right. Well, I can
live with that. All right. Thank you.
I have a -- anything else, Mr. Yovanovich?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Let's hear from staff.
Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
Staff has reviewed both the GMP and the PUD
amendment, and as contained within our staff report, we are
recommending approval. We view this as a unique
commodity. This is adaptive reuse. This is something
that's pretty new to Collier County, and it's -- I think the
purpose of it, for providing for additional multifamily
opportunities for the workforce and attainable housing, is
one that we most certainly are supportive of.
Regarding the discussion that was just had, we do
recognize the unique distinction between this and the
Ascend project. Because this has the 49 units that are
income restricted but the rest are rent restricted, there's
constraints in terms of the -- you know, the fiscal business
model; we recognize that. In Ascend, you had your portion,
your 30 to 34 percent that were going to be income
restricted, but the rest were free market to be able to
subsidize the income-restricted units.
This doesn't have that same luxury, so to speak. So
their pro forma, I can only imagine, is a little bit -- a little bit
tighter, so we do recognize that, and I think we would
applaud the Chair for leading the discussion to find that
compromise, because we do think it's a good compromise, at
the beginning of the 90-day notice and then just to -- if there
was a 60-day notification, send it out to the essential service
providers, but the first person who responds to it and is
qualified, you know, could most certainly move in.
And just wanted to let you know that another aspect,
just to show you how unique we find this and how much
support staff is behind this project, within the agenda packet,
there was a proposed modification to the minimum housing
standards. We have minimum housing standards within the
county for two people for 450 square feet. We are
suggesting a modification to that, and what that will say is
for when you have adaptive reuse of an existing building to
multifamily and have a commitment for affordable housing,
there can be a reduction within the minimum square footage
from -- two people from 450 to 250 square feet, recognizing
the uniqueness of this adaptive reuse program. For all those
reasons, staff is recommending approval to the Planning
Commission.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: With the agreed-upon
changes?
MR. BOSI: Yes, with the agreed-upon changes
discussed between the Planning Commission and the
applicant.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Now, do we have any
members of the public who have registered to speak?
MR. SABO: Yes, Mr. Chairman. We have one
registered public speaker, Ilen Estrada.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. And I'm pretty sure
you have not been sworn in because I saw you come in. So
we'll get you sworn in.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm
the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
MS. ESTRADA: I do.
Good morning, everybody.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Of all the
things that I've heard here, I think one of the things that I
agree with is that this may be the best -- the best idea is to
drop this project.
As a resident of this area and businessperson of this
area, this project does not serve the need that this
community has for affordable housing.
What we are doing by reducing the square footage to
200 and something is we're increasing a motel room. We're
renting motel rooms. And we live in that area. We have
family in that area, and they are single mothers with children
that need housing that cannot live in 200-something. So
this project is really not helping anybody.
I've been a resident of Collier County for over 30 years
and a real estate agent for over 30 years. I speak to people
every day who are desperate for affordable housing, and this
is not going to fit their needs. The families out there are not
going to fit with this.
Another thing is that we keep on putting up projects
without doing the infrastructure, thinking about the
infrastructure first. That corner is a headache. There has
been, for years, for over 30 years, as long as I live in the
county, prostitution, drug trafficking in that corner.
Now, just living across the street where we're paying
very high taxes and very high money for homes, to have this
type of housing really is masquerading -- masquerading
hotel rooms as affordable housing.
I totally do not agree with this. I think that is not the
highest and best use for this land. And if that building has
been condemned, maybe the best thing is to tear it down and
really think about good affordable housing for families that
work here, deserve decent affordable housing, women with
children, and, yes, the people that serve us.
Fine gentlemen, I understand. I'm a businessperson.
I'm into money. I like money. And I -- you know, I totally
agree what you want to do, but to you, 45 days is a long
time? Guess what? We're going to have to live with this
for 20, 30, 40 years.
Golden Gate City is the dumping ground for this
county, in my opinion, in my humble opinion. We have
more than enough projects where there's supposedly
affordable rent in Golden Gate City. How about we spread
the affordable housing throughout the county? Why does it
always have to be Golden Gate City? When we don't want
something, where do we take it? We take it to Golden Gate
City, or we take it to Golden Gate Estates.
And you know what? I am so sorry, because if this
project was going to go up in some other place of this
county, this whole place would be full, but since it's Golden
Gate City, people who cannot afford to take a day off to
come here and object to this -- guess what, there's only two
people here to object to this.
So, again, I say the best suggestion so far is that they
drop this project. I'm pretty sure there's developers that
would be interested in putting houses out there that can
really, and not hypocritically, do affordable housing for
families and not single men or people who -- I mean,
200-and-some square footage? Are we kidding? I mean,
are we going to get more of what we have right now in that
corner? Prostitution? Drugs?
We have to live with this every day, the ambulance, the
police, everything there. How come we don't have a police
officer here or the chief of police, our sheriff talking about
the number of arrests and things that are done in that corner?
And we have to live with that.
So 45 days -- to wait 45 days to rent [sic] a unit and not
make money, guess what? We live there. We live there.
We work there. We have to drive through there. And
there's no infrastructure, you know, plan, or anything on
this.
I'm sorry, Commissioners, but I truly, truly, truly, as a
resident, taxpayer, and businessperson in this town, object to
this project. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Any other
speakers registered?
MR. SABO: Mr. Chairman, we have no other
registered speakers.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Anyone in the
room who's not registered who wishes to be heard, please
raise your hand.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Seeing no hands raised, we
will close the public comment portion of this hearing.
And I have just another question or two for the
applicant. In the -- at the NIM -- and I'm referring to Page
4 of the 32-page free-standing NIM transcript -- whoever
was speaking said it's a smaller unit as the sacrifice that you
give up for affordability. The other thing that it offers is
actually less barriers when it comes to finding a new home.
So because all the utilities are included, you have blank,
blank, blank.
Now, my question is are all utilities included?
MR. HYLER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: And will they be for 30 years?
MR. HYLER: Yeah. I mean, we are not deed
restricting the property, right? But our intent is to provide
cable, Internet, water, electric. We do a valet trash service
that will be all-inclusive.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Well, maybe it's a
matter of nomenclature, but you are deed restricting the
property, because this is going to run with the land for 30
years.
MR. YOVANOVICH: First of all, what the county
makes you do is subtract from -- and I'm making up a
number. Let's just say the rent is $1,500. And if we don't
provide those utilities and those utilities cost $100, we can
only rent it for $1,400. So utilities are included in the rent.
In this particular case, we'll bill the 1,500 and not separately
bill for utilities.
So that's when -- you're talking about utilities being
included -- and Cormac is way more qualified to explain
how this works, is -- but you do -- you do, in fact, have to
subtract a utility allowance out of the rent you can charge.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Just so that I
understand completely, let's say that for business reasons, a
decision is made down the road within the 30 years to break
out the utilities and separately meter for things. How
would -- how would that affect -- how would that financially
affect the tenant?
MR. YOVANOVICH: It doesn't, because we'd reduce
the rent to cover what's separately billed.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Is that covenant already --
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's the requirement of the
program.
MR. HYLER: Yeah. That is -- that's actually a HUD
and Florida Housing Authority requirement when it comes
to affordability. Yes, it is a -- it is viewed as a net number,
and so statewide it is managed that exact same way.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: And, County Attorney, is there
any reason why we need to put anything in the 30-year
commitment, or is it covered by state law?
MS. ASHTON-CICKO: If what they're saying is
correct and it's covered by the affordable housing
requirements of the state or federal government, then, no, I
don't think you need to put it in there.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yes. Go ahead,
Commissioner Klucik.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: So I think an easy way
to understand it is when we have these numbers of
80 percent of, you know, or what -- you know, when we put
those limits on there, that number for rent is not just rent.
That number is rent and utilities, and, therefore, the rent
that's charged either has to include the utilities or has to be
reduced to cover. So I think that's what I'm hearing. And
so that applies no matter what. So even all these other
projects have the same -- you know, that we've already acted
on and mandated or, you know, approved.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yeah. I think that's -- I agree
with you. I think that's what's being said, but at this
point -- and I certainly understand the County Attorney can't
be thoroughly researched and prepared to answer every
obscure legal question that might get thrown at them, but
we're -- I take it, then, you were careful and judicious in
your answer, and I don't believe you said that that's what the
law says. You said if the law says that, then you don't need
it in the document.
MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Well, is Cormac here? He
can --
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yeah, okay.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MS. ASHTON-CICKO: -- clarify that information.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Let's hear from him. Good
idea.
Mr. Giblin, welcome, and what say you, sir?
MR. GIBLIN: Good morning. Cormac Giblin,
director of Housing Policy and Economic Development.
What's been said so far is correct. The income limits
posted by the Florida Housing Finance Corporation that are
derived from HUD are gross rents that include utilities.
Should an apartment complex not include a particular utility,
there is a schedule of values that those are then deducted
from the rent to make up for it.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Thank you. Thank
you. And my question's been fully answered.
Commissioner Sparrazza?
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Good morning.
One quick question. Are there different sized units, the
ones that might go in the basement versus first floor, second
floor? Just curious.
MR. HYLER: I can say we don't have a basement.
But, yeah --
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: But the lower
level where the parking floor is?
MR. HYLER: Yeah, yeah. It's the ground floor
which, actually, a lot of people prefer because it's easier
access to their vehicle to unload groceries, et cetera. So
please don't view that as a detriment. But, yes, there are
different sized units based on the existing footprint of the
building as it was built. So we are not modifying the shell,
so to speak, and so the unit sizes range from around 305 up
to around 455 square feet as an approximation. Some have
balconies; some do not.
MS. ASHTON-CICKO: I think that if you would like
some comfort in including, you know, the rent will be
calculated including, you know, the following utilities
or -- because you mentioned cable, and I can't imagine that
HUD would require cable television as part of the
calculation. I would think the calculation includes things
that are, like, necessary.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Would the applicant
agree to inclusion of that language?
MR. HYLER: I don't -- I think that's already covered
under state law, and I think that we're getting a lot of
restrictions on a property that's already very slim, and I think
it's an overburden.
MS. ASHTON-CICKO: So does the rent adjustment
include cable television?
MR. HYLER: So to be clear, so right now we include
rent as a package because we are able to buy a bulk package
through Spectrum or Time Warner that is substantially less
expensive than what an individual tenant can go get it for.
We pay about $40 a month for both, and market rate is 90 to
$120 a month. If in the future that company goes out of
business or we're no longer able to achieve those economies
of scale and we don't provide it, no, we would not be willing
to deduct whatever market rate for an individual is because
we can buy it so much cheaper.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I hope we're not going to get
into having PUDs now spell out exactly what utilities are
going to be included in the rent in order to get a project
approved. I mean, at some point, we have to just say the
program that's out there is sufficient to provide safe, decent
housing for people who otherwise wouldn't have safe,
decent housing and working in Collier County. I don't
think we need to nitpick and get into what utilities are in the
rent and that we're going to commit to that for 30 years.
We're committing to a program that's out there that requires
certain utilities be deducted from the rent or be included in
the rent. We're going to commit to that program.
MS. ASHTON-CICKO: It does make it difficult for
staff to administer if, you know, they have one program
here, another program here. So to that extent, I would
agree with Rich.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. That's fine. Thank
you.
Anything further from the applicant?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just -- I'm not going to
address the comments from the public speaker, but I do want
her to know that this is the first project, at least that I've been
involved in -- and I've been involved in several of the most
recent affordable housing projects -- that's in Golden Gate
City. All the others have been in other portions of Collier
County. So we're not dumping affordable housing into
Golden Gate City, and you-all are aware of those other
projects. She's probably not. So I just thought that the
record should be a little bit clearer on that.
And, candidly, I can't imagine that anybody in Golden
Gate City would like this hotel to stay and get renovated and
remain operable, because nobody's going to buy this
property, knock it down, and put in multi-bedroom
apartments and make it work financially.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Commissioner Sparrazza, or did I forget to turn your
light off?
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Sorry.
Commissioner Schumacher.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: There's too
many people agreeing with Rich today. That's all I'm going
to say.
Being the District 3 planning rep, that hotel is an
eyesore. It has been for years. It's been a problem. I
agree with the things that were going on there. You know,
it has been a burden on our Sheriff's Office to babysit.
But also, you and I spoke at the last meeting, and we
discussed how people bought houses in Golden Gate City
sight unseen and raised rents on tenants that live there and
pushed them out of the community. Hindsight's always
20/20. Perhaps there should have been some type of
ordinance put in place that could not raise the rent on
somebody for a year if you were purchasing the property
that it was already rented to somebody in need.
This project is not looking to house families.
Obviously, it's efficiencies. This is -- as Rich said, could be
the first project of many.
We've seen the commercial property on the outlies of
Golden Gate City, that some of them are closed down and
derelict, best condition to use for it. Those properties under
the Live Local Act, a developer come could in because it's
commercial -- correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Bosi -- and put
in a portion of affordable housing and larger units if they
choose so.
So I think this project steps in the right direction versus
a developer coming in, knocking it down, and putting in
condos that nobody in the Golden Gate City area could
afford.
So that's my aspect of it. I do support this project. I
don't think cable TV needs to be included. I think the state
statute covers what's required of them to include in the rent.
And I did have one question for Mr. Giblin. And I'm
sorry you went back there. I was going to try to grab you
before you ran back, but...
The question I was going to ask you, sir, was on rent
subsidies that the county provides currently to the state, if
you have that information.
MR. GIBLIN: The Community and Human Services
Department covers the grants that are available to renters in
the county. I can tell you that they have a tenant-based
rental assistance program that they offer. They work with
landlords and low-income residents to help offset a portion
of the rents that they can't pay. Also, the Collier County
Housing Authority has at Section 8 program. Both of those
have pretty long waiting lists, but there are people in the
county that are getting assistance today.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: So the funding
right now, you would say, is kind of at its limit, and there's
people that are waiting to get --
MR. GIBLIN: Correct. Both of those programs have
waiting lists.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: The reason I
ask that is because when we see these projects that are a year
out, like this one is 2024 for the first phase to be ready to go,
I'm just asking as to how we're funding those as in-house.
Thank you. That answers my question.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. No one else is
signaling at this time, and, therefore, we will take the matter
under advisement for deliberation and motion.
The floor's open to the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Sparrazza.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Yes, sir. I would
like to move forward with a motion to grant this proposal
with the statements that I believe we've all agreed upon as
far as the timetable for the visual availability and public
announcement for when the project is available going to a
smaller sector, being the essential workers, and also I
believe it was discussed that upon -- any unit that becomes
available, it might be something as a quick email to the
essential services headquarters personnel programs that
alerts them, "In three days we have a program that might
become available, wanted to inform you of that." I don't
know if the exact wording follows what I just said, but I
think we have a pretty good idea to that.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Close enough.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: So that is my
proposal.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: I'd like to try to clarify what I
think.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Please do.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: That -- and I'll say it this way:
Even -- Ascend is not a precedent. We don't have
precedence around here. We take each case as it comes
along, but the language there is a pretty good starting point.
So I would like you to consider amending your motion to
say we will -- and I read the Ascend language and can read
it again. It's going to be Ascend except we're going to
delete the 45-day requirement, and in lieu of it, when the
owner becomes aware of an impending vacancy, the owner
will send out a notice to those same essential services
personnel agencies that are identified in that language I read,
but they're not required to hold the property open for any
length of time.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Thank you for that
clarification, and I would like to include that statement in
the initial motion.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Does the
seconder agree?
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So I understand, if you don't
mind, we're basically going to take the Ascend language and
appropriately modify it for what we just discussed. So we
would be providing the notice to the same entities that are
identified in the Ascend ordinance, and we would initially
lease up -- for the 90-day period, initial lease-up to that
smaller group. After that, no restrictions on who we lease it
up to, but we're going to provide notice, but if someone's
sitting there who's income-qualified, we can still rent it to
that person and not have to wait.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yes. I think you've stated it
well, yep. So does the rest of the Planning Commission.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Any further comments
or discussion before we take a vote? Anything from
Commissioner Klucik?
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: No. I'm -- I am very
pleased with how this has been wiggled into what's
presented right now on the motion at hand. So I'm glad that
that's where we're at.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
All right. All those in favor, please say aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: It passes unanimously.
Thank you, applicant. Thank you, members of the
public, staff, Planning Commission.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Both of them, right?
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Yeah. That's -- oh, that's
right. And the motion -- just for full -- complete clarity,
there were -- this was a joint motion both on the GMPA and
the MPUD-A. Correct, movant?
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Correct, without objection,
Planning Commission, that's what we did. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Both have passed.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Yes, both have
passed, right. And we did not need to have an EAC vote on
that.
All right. So we may be breaking some records here
today.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Don't jinx it.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Don't talk too quick.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: The amount of
people agreeing with Rich, plus a speed record on this
meeting, I mean --
CHAIRMAN FRYER: This is -- something is just
way wrong.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: I'll have to buy
a scratch-off ticket when I leave here.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: I'll do my best.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: ***Our second hearing today,
second and last, is on PL20220006512, which is a
large-scale GMPA to change the land-use planning period.
The matter's purely legislative in nature, so no need for
swearing in of witnesses or ex parte disclosures.
With that, I'll turn it over with a word of welcome to
Mr. David Weeks. Mr. Weeks.
MR. WEEKS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Welcome back.
MR. WEEKS: For the record, David Weeks, a
contract employee now for Collier County Government. I
actually work for NOVA Engineering & Environmental.
This is a Growth Management Plan amendment, and
it's a very simple one. It is to amend the Future Land Use
Map land-use planning time period. The map presently
reads 2012 to 2025, and the proposal is to change that to
2023 to 2045.
This is necessitated by Florida statutes. There is a
requirement to have a 10-year planning horizon, and then in
2023, the Florida Legislature also added a planning
requirement to go out also to 20 years, and this amendment
will accomplish that.
As you note here, there are no other changes to the
Future Land Use Map. There's no changes to densities or
intensities of land use. It has no effect on prior property
rights.
And also I would note that the capital facilities
planning period remains at 5 and 10 years. So every year
when you see the Annual Update and Inventory Report and
Capital Improvement Element update, that will continue to
be 5- and 10-year periods. It is not affected by the statutory
change.
This simply shows the Future Land Use Map. Again,
in the upper left-hand corner is where the change is made
from 2023 to 2045.
The statutes still require that the Future Land Use Map
accommodate land uses necessary to support the population
in the horizon year, in this case, the year being 2045, and the
current projected population at that period -- time year
would be approximately 491,000 persons. And staff's
analysis shows that the Future Land Use Map will
accommodate the needed land uses, residential, commercial,
industrial, government facilities, parks and recreation, et
cetera, to support that 2045 population.
And with that, staff recommends approval.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you very much.
Questions for Mr. Weeks?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: No.
All right. Any registered speakers on this one?
MR. SABO: Mr. Chairman, there are no registered
speakers.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Any persons in the room who have not registered wish
to be heard in this matter, please raise your hand.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Seeing no hands, we'll close
the public comment segment of this hearing, and we'll take
the matter up for deliberation and vote at this time.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Make a motion
to approve.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. It's been moved
and seconded to approve the large-scale Growth
Management Plan amendment to change the land-use
planning period as outlined by Mr. Weeks. All those in
favor, please say aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: It passes unanimously.
Thank you, Mr. Weeks. Thank you, staff.
Now, before you run off, everybody, we've got one
more item that we put on, and that's 11A, election of
officers.
Oh, Mr. Bosi, did you want to be heard?
MR. BOSI: After election of officers, I just wanted to
engage the Planning Commission about the December 7th
potential for a night meeting and -- but we can talk about
that after.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: ***All right. Okay. So just
to set the table here, the Collier County ordinance, it's
2009-29, Section 1, as amended, provides that the Planning
Commission officers' terms shall be for, quote, one year
with eligibility for reelection, unquote. And per Robert's
Rules, nominations to office do not require a second.
With that, I'll call for nominations to the office of
chairman.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: I nominate
Edwin Fryer for Chairman.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you. Are there further
nominations for the office of chairman? If not, the
nominations for the office of chairman are closed. All
those in favor of reelecting the chairman to that office,
please say aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: It passes unanimously.
Thank you very much.
Now we'll turn to the office of vice chairman. I'd
entertain motions -- entertain nominations on that office.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: I make a motion that Joe
Schmitt continue in that role as well.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Any further nominations?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: There being none,
nominations are closed. I'd entertain a motion to reelect the
vice chairman to that office. I'd entertain a motion.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Oh, motion.
My apology.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Second.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: I second.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Not required.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: This isn't a nomination. This
is a vote on a nomination.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: That's all right.
All those in favor, please say aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: It passes unanimously.
Vice Chairman Schmitt is unanimously reelected.
Now to the office of secretary. And so that he's not
embarrassed, I'm going to open the nominations by making
one. I nominate Paul Shea. Any further nominations?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: If not, nominations for the
office of secretary are closed. I'd entertain a motion that we
elect -- reelect Secretary Shea.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: So motioned.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Second.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All those in favor, please say
aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHUMACHER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Congratulations --
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: -- Mr. Secretary.
All right. Thank you very much. We completed our
business, and now we'll go to Mr. Bosi who wants to drag us
back in here for another meeting.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, Chair. Mike Bosi, Planning
and Zoning director.
We had briefly spoken about at a prior meeting we
have the need for a nighttime hearing. We have two,
potentially three, LDC amendments that will require that
5:05 start time. We're proposing it for December 7th.
We currently tentatively have two petitions scheduled.
If those two petitions remain scheduled, we're going to
estimate the time, and we will send out an email to the
Planning Commission members to see if a 2:00 or a 3:00
start time would be agreeable and that we will have a
quorum for the December 7th meeting.
As we probably -- it will probably be the first or
second -- first or second week of November, we'll send out
that email as correspondence just to confirm the availability.
But I remember when we had this initial discussion, we
had -- tentatively had agreed that there was going to be able
to establish a quorum for that day, but just wanted to further
make the Planning Commission aware of the need for that
nighttime hearing on the 7th.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Thank you.
Discussion from the Planning Commission? We're
already going to be here in the morning or, perhaps, the
afternoon, and what's being proposed is come back the same
day.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: And, Mr. Bosi, did
you state you intend to start this meeting midafternoon, not
at 5:05?
MR. BOSI: Yes, because there will be two petitions
that aren't required for nighttime, are just traditional
petitions.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: In lieu of a 9:00.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: In lieu of the 9:00,
we start at 2:00 or 3:00 --
MR. BOSI: 2:00 or 3:00.
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: -- and then
reconvene at 1705?
MR. BOSI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: I assume, though, that
it -- since, really, our only constraint, I believe, is notice, and
that's 15 days, that things could come in that would add to
that and maybe necessitate 9 a.m. start or not?
MR. BOSI: I would highly doubt a 9 a.m., but there
may be a 1:00 start if we get another petition. The two
petitions that we have aren't expected to have a tremendous
amount of public interest. So staff will gauge that.
And another note, we have tentatively canceled the
December 21st because -- CCPC meeting because of the
proximity to the holiday.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: All right. Thank you very
much.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: Did you say tentatively
canceled?
MR. BOSI: Well, we wanted to make sure it was okay
with the Planning Commission before we did so.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Yeah. Well, let's
first -- let's just take a quick vote on the night meeting on
December 7. All those in favor, please say aye.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: I'm going to be -- the one
meeting I have missed in a while. I'm going to be out of
town at another board meeting, and I'm going to miss
both -- that whole day.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SHEA: So if it still works, that's
fine.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Anyone else have a
problem with the evening meeting?
COMMISSIONER SPARRAZZA: I should be able to
make them.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Commissioner Klucik, you on
board with that, sir?
COMMISSIONER KLUCIK: Yeah. I don't foresee a
problem.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Good. Then we will
meet at some point starting at sometime during the day on
December 7, and then either come back or continue through
into the 5:05 evening meeting. All right, good. And then
the -- so that's been settled.
Then the matter of the December 21 hearing, it seems
to me that it would be altogether fitting for us to cancel that
meeting as well. Any objections?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Without objection, that
meeting's canceled.
MR. BOSI: And, good. Just for your own knowledge
base, we do -- we will have a couple petitions on the
July 4th -- or not July -- January 4th CCPC. It's the first
meeting of the new year. So after the holidays, it won't be
long before we're back up and running just -- but we'll send
you more information as those become a little more solid.
CHAIRMAN FRYER: Okay. Thank you very much.
So I think that completes our new business, and we
didn't have any old business. And so anybody in the room
who wants to be heard on a matter that was not on our
agenda today, now is the time.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FRYER: If not, without objection, we're
adjourned.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:12 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
_____________________________________
EDWIN FRYER, CHAIRMAN
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, RPR, FPR-C,
COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.