Agenda 08/08/2023 Item # 2B (July 11, 2023 BCC Meeting Minutes)08/08/2023
2.B
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Item Number: 2.B
Doc ID: 26242
Item Summary: July 11, 2023, Board Meeting Minutes
Meeting Date: 08/08/2023
Prepared by:
Title: Management Analyst II — County Manager's Office
Name: Geoffrey Willig
07/31/2023 1:31 PM
Submitted by:
Title: Assistant Finance Director — Clerk of the Circuit Court
Name: Derek Johnssen
07/31/2023 1:31 PM
Approved By:
Review:
County Manager's Office Geoffrey Willig County Manager Review
Board of County Commissioners Geoffrey Willig Meeting Pending
Completed 07/31/2023 1:31 PM
08/08/2023 9:00 AM
Packet Pg. 10
July 11, 2023
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, July 11, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
July 11, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning.
MS. PATTERSON: You have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Good morning, everyone.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good to see you-all.
All right. County Manager, let's roll.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Let's begin with our invocation
and Pledge of Allegiance. Our invocation will be led by Father
Joseph, Saint Ann's Catholic Church.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And our Pledge of Allegiance is
going to be led by Collier County's finest, Sergeant Driscoll and
Sergeant Tuff. When it comes ready for the Pledge, if you'd -- front
and center. We'd like to see you in uniform. Thank you, sirs.
Good morning, Pastor.
Item #1A
INVOCATION BY FATHER REJI JOSEPH, ST. ANN'S CATHOLIC
CHURCH – INVOCATION GIVEN
FATHER JOSEPH: As we are together, let us place ourselves
in the presence of God.
Dear Lord, we are here to discuss topics that will benefit the
people in our community and country. We want to think about how
we can make life easier for everyone. Come and give us the wisdom
to make the right decisions. Let us not make biased decisions but
decisions based on solving the problems of your children.
Be our leader during this meeting. Show us the way because
you have chosen us to be here. Give us direction and let us not think
with our own selfish interests. Open our eyes to spiritual solutions
July 11, 2023
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and help us make our country great.
Reading from the Book of Psalms: I will instruct you and teach
you in the way you should go. I will counsel you with my loving
eye on you.
Let us pray.
Heavenly Father, today we have come together to seek your
direction as a team. We thank you for how faithfully you have
carried us in the past through both the ups that included victories and
growth and through the downs that included challenges and mistakes.
Through all of it, you remained unchanged, and we are so thankful
that we get to pray to you today.
Though our vision only stretches so far, you see beyond what we
can see, and your understanding goes farther than what our minds can
comprehend. That is why we come to you in prayer asking that you
go before us.
Please grant us direction as we face different decisions that need
to be made. If we settle on a decision, we ask that you grant us
peace if it is what you will for us. We seek your counsel and
wisdom and ask that you would show us the way.
We pray for the vote of Collier County Commissioners and all
its members for all the elected officials and those who are entrusted
to God, our political welfare.
We ask this as your sons and daughters, confident in your
goodness and love. Amen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Amen.
Gentlemen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Father. Appreciate
those inspiring words.
After eight years of Catholic school and many years of being an
altar boy, as Father Orsi always reminds us, amazing words, but it
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doesn't count for Sunday mass unless you pass around a basket. So
we'll see you in church on Sunday. This didn't count. But thank
you, Father Joseph. Appreciate it.
Okay. Next.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE DISCLOSURE
PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT
AGENDA.) MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL -
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we'll start with changes.
We have just a time-certain item today. At 9:30 is a
recommendation to hear a summary report of the Florida State
Legislature's Office of Program Policy Analysis and Government
Accountability Study on exhaust system noise regulation for motor
vehicles and motor-driven vehicles, and receive an update from Quiet
Florida regarding reducing noise pollution from illegal vehicle
modifications. Again, that will be time-certain at the 9:30.
We do have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and 2:50.
County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing this morning. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair LoCastro, let's start with any
changes to the agenda and ex parte on the consent and summary
agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Kowal, do
you have any changes to the consent, summary agenda, or any ex
parte on the consent or summary?
July 11, 2023
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No changes and no ex parte on
either summary or consent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have changes. I did have
some ex parte on one of the items on consent. And, yes, I believe
that was 17C. Oh, no. I'm sorry, 17A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No changes and no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No changes, and I, as well,
had ex parte on 17A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have no changes. My ex
parte is 17A, I had meetings and emails, and that was it.
I just did want to -- before we ask for an approval on the consent
or summary, I just wanted to make one note. It wasn't worth pulling
it off, but it's more of an observation and also a thank you to our
County Manager.
If you happened to look at 16E1 and 16E2, you know, we
continue to have some lessons learned on contracting and some
after-action corrections. And our county clerk, you know, in her
notes, she articulately points out that, you know, we've got some
cleanup work to do. You know, it's not a gigantic number on 16E1,
but any -- any number -- you know, $5,000 of corrections, more or
less, is taxpayer dollars.
But I'm really encouraged by what I'm seeing from the County
Manager's team that these are starting to become minimalized in our
agenda where maybe a year or two back or even further these seemed
to be -- they popped up with more frequency.
16E2 is a little bit bigger of a number, but, there again, you
know, we met yesterday. And you know, as -- like I said -- per
Clerk of Courts, rather, as pointed out in her notes, things that we
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definitely are going to -- are taking to heart.
The other thing I just wanted to also mention is one of the things
I haven't seen here in a long time is writing off very expensive
equipment that nobody can find. It sounds like maybe those days are
gone and, you know, writing off a rusted file cabinet is one thing, but
night-vision goggles seem to be a thing of the past.
So I really commend you and our Clerk of Courts and
everybody that's doing a good job making sure that our
processes -- you know, nobody's perfect, but as you point out in the
notes here, you know, we look at history always to make sure we
don't repeat poor history. So there's some really good things in here
that are good lessons learned, and I thank you for your attention to
detail, and the same with Ms. Kinzel in the back here.
But if I have a motion to pass the regular -- accept the
regular -- or the consent and summary agenda as is.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So moved, Mr. Chairman.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So moved and second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
July 11, 2023
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Item #2B, #2C, #2D, and #2E
JUNE 13, 2023, BCC MEETING MINUTES; JUNE 15, 2023, BCC
BUDGET MEETING MINUTES; MAY 23, 2023, BCC MEETING
MINUTES MAY 25, 2023, BCC WORKSHOP MINUTES MOTION
TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2B is approval of the June 13th,
2023, BCC meeting minutes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Unless there's some
indication from the Board, I'll make a motion to approve 2B, 2C, 2D,
and 2E. They're all BCC minutes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion and a second to
approve all four item minutes. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One quick question, if I may.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I walked -- I left my ex parte
on my desk, and I knew I had 17A, but I also had meetings and
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emails on B -- 17B as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Officer, please take Commissioner
McDaniel into custody.
Okay. We'll make that note for the record. Thank you, sir.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING JULY AS PARKS AND
RECREATION MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY. TO BE
ACCEPTED OLEMA EDWARDS DIVISION DIRECTOR OF
PARKS AND RECREATION - MOTION TO ADOPT BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - ADOPTED 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4A is a proclamation designating
July as Parks and Recreation Month in Collier County. To be
accepted Olema Edwards division director of Parks and Recreation.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, while
Olema's going to the podium, I think we -- most of us, I think,
participated in the fireworks over at the Paradise Coast Park, and that
was a really well-run program. And I know our Parks Department
had a lot involved in that, and I know the manager did. But that
was -- I think we had over 6,000 people there. And it was a little
rough getting out of the park, but that was a job well done. So thank
you for all of that.
MS. EDWARDS: Thank you, Commissioners.
I appreciate you recognizing us with this proclamation. Thank
you for the words for the fireworks. I know Amy has some things
that she would like to say, but it was a collaborative effort from the
Paradise Sports Complex to our Sheriff, EMS, Risk Management. I
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know I'm forgetting people, but it was a collaborative effort, and we
appreciate you-all supporting us and coming out to visit the fireworks
show. And we're just here to serve and happy to do so. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: So, Commissioners, on that note, before
we move on, we just wanted to bring the folks up that participated in
getting ready for the fireworks and during the event for a quick photo
and just a couple of statements.
We did have approximately 7,000 guests. Activities and
concessions were provided throughout the day. Fireworks and
accompanying music started promptly at 9:00 and ran for the
scheduled 20 minutes.
The success of the event is particularly notable, considering the
short time available for organizing this type of major community
event.
Thanks to great team work: Our Paradise Coast Sports
Complex facility operators, Sports Facility Management; Paradise
Coast Sports Complex staff; Zambelli Fireworks; Parks and
Recreation; the Collier County Sheriff's Office; Greater Naples Fire;
the Tourism staff; EMS, Risk Management; Solid Waste; Emergency
Management; Allied Security; and Transportation, Road, and Bridge;
and Facilities management.
We are also -- as Commissioner Saunders noted, we are also
working on an after-action analysis to identify areas where we can
improve for future events.
So if we could have all of our participants and folks that helped
with the fireworks come up for a quick photo with the
commissioners, I'd appreciate it. Come on up.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I saw all the postings, and it was
awesome. Yeah, it was awesome.
July 11, 2023
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(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know what I just wanted to
add was how impressive it was that the County and Paradise Coast
Sports Complex staff and all the first responders, fire, how quickly
everybody pivoted when -- you know, when we got the word that
there weren't going to be fireworks on the City of Naples beaches
down by the pier. You know, we normally do something at Sugden
Park, and that's quite a bit different than hosting 7,000 people at the
sports complex.
And added to that -- and, you know, before the sports complex
folks leave, literally, just a couple of days later, I was there to make a
few comments on behalf of all the commissioners and the County
staff at their Top Gun football event. You walked through those
gates and you would have never known that 7,000 people just,
literally, like a handful of hours ago were at the sports complex. It
was squeaky clean, impeccable. All the same people that pulled
all-nighters for the fireworks, you know, were out there for the Top
Gun event. It was all this weekend.
Thousands of people heard nothing but incredible comments
from families and football players, middle school and high school,
that came to the sports complex the entire weekend from all over the
country, and then we had -- we had a good amount here from Collier
County as well.
But, you know, the events are just back to back to back, and,
you know, you would never know it. So, you know, my hat's off to
you guys and all the staff for what they did because, you know, it
wasn't -- it wasn't that we just had fireworks and then they took a
month off. I mean, it was, boom, next thing, you know. And you're
only as good as your last thing, and the last things keep -- continue to
get, you know, bigger and better.
And as the County Manager said, yeah, some lessons learned,
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you know. We have lessons learned here every day in how we
spend money, how we write contracts, and, you know, how we host
events at the sports complex. But you guys are on a good vector,
and we all see it and are very appreciative of it. So, you know, keep
pressing. Keep your foot on the accelerator. You know, it's noticed
and appreciated. Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
Item #5A
ARTIST OF THE MONTH - MR. BORIS DEIRY - PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5A is the Artist of the Month. If we
could turn your attention to the back of the room -- is artwork by
Mr. Boris Deiry. He is a local artist that shows his art at the Border
of Fine Art Gallery in the Naples Art District, and he is here to say a
few words about his art.
Thank you. You can take either podium, sir.
MR. DEIRY: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning, sir.
MR. DEIRY: Good morning. Good morning, Commissioners.
Good morning, everybody.
It's such an honor to present my art here in Naples, especially
when we celebrate the Centennial of Collier County. Thank you for
the opportunity. I couldn't even dream about it some 30 years ago
when me and my family immigrated to the United States.
In my youth, I studied painting at School of Art in Siberia, when
the opportunities of this country were a distant mirage. The
Sunshine of Naples, which I now call home, could only be felt
through the paints of my canvass. At that time, I got a Ph.D. in
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biophysics and put my love of painting on hold.
After moving to the United States, I worked as a scientist at
Rush Medical Center in Chicago and later at Argonne National
Laboratory in Chicago; however, after work I would pick up the
brush and some paint and lose myself in my basement in my home,
often till the early morning hours.
Painting became a language for me, for my self-expression, to
compensate for deficiencies in my English. I used a number of
different techniques and tried not to limit myself by a certain subject,
theme, of style. The flow of energy between people and the
material, shown as thoughts and emotions, seemed most mysterious
and attractive for me to paint.
My wife, Lucy, is not only a source of inspiration for many of
my paintings, but she's also an interpreter for my work. I try to put
meaning in every painting, sometimes obvious but sometimes hidden
from anybody, including myself.
In that case, Lucy interpret for me and makes it clear to
understand. You can see some of her interpretations on the text tags
near the paintings.
One of my major interests in science has been to understand the
mechanism behind learning and memory. This led me to create a
series of paintings: "Learning to Fly," "Learning to Play," "Learning
to be Beautiful," "A Taste for Learning," et cetera. I marvel at how
kids start interacting with the world.
My paintings are posted and sold on the art website on the
Artmajeur, Saatchi, and others. I earned the Artist Certification in
Artmajeur, France. "Learning to Play" was selected by St. Stephen's
Lutheran Church in Wilmington, Delaware, for the events in 2019.
My first exhibition here in Naples was in 2014. Since then, I
have opened my own gallery in Naples Art District. It's a
fast-growing area, but still more industrial than artistic. In other
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words, it's not the same as Montmartre of Paris yet, but I hope it will
become one soon.
Please enjoy the art, and thank you again for this wonderful
opportunity. My special thanks to Amy for her incredible help with
the installation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, sir, you were born in Siberia
and spent a lot of time in that part of your country before you came
here?
MR. DEIRY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When did you come to the United
States?
MR. DEIRY: 1991.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wow. You know, a lot of times
Americans who maybe don't travel as much, they hear Siberia and
they think it's, you know, full of Russian prisons.
I'll just only say that my military travels took me to some pretty
interesting places that sometimes go unnamed, but the one thing I do
know about Siberia, first-hand experience, it is one of the most
beautiful places in the country of Russia, and people don't know that.
Oh, it's cold. It's cold. You're in a definitely warmer climate. But
it was one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, and most
Americans don't equate Siberia -- they have some sort of negative
connotation from the movies or James Bond movies or something.
But that part of your country is just spectacular. So I'm sure
that Siberia was very inspirational to you to, you know, have that sort
of outside, you know, feel, because it is just such a beautiful picture
as part of your country.
But, you know, thank you for adding to our chambers. We
really appreciate it. Thank you, sir, and welcome. You know, we're
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so glad to have you not only in the United States, but I think we all
appreciated your comments about the art district. Way to slip that in
there. It wasn't missed. It wasn't missed. Thank you, sir.
Okay. County Manager.
Item #5B
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE MONTH FOR JULY 2023 TO NORMAN LOVE
CONFECTIONS. THE AWARD WILL BE ACCEPTED BY
NORMAN LOVE, FOUNDER AND CEO, AND YOSIE CRESPO,
DIRECTOR OF SALES. ALSO PRESENT IS BETHANY
SAWYER, VICE PRESIDENT OF MEMBERSHIP & INVESTORS,
THE GREATER NAPLES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE -
PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5B is a presentation of the Collier
County Business of the Month for July 2023 to Norman Love
Confections. The award will be accepted by Norman Love, founder
and CEO, and Yosie Crespo, director of sales. Also present is
Bethany Sawyer, vice president of membership and investors, the
Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce. Congratulations.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So Norman Love's a real person.
Wait a minute. We have a celebrity in the house, right?
Sir, if anybody would like to make a few comments, the
podium's yours.
I just want to go on the record, too. When Mr. Love shook my
hand, I got a little mango passion fruit kiwi. I don't know if
maybe -- he must have been working earlier this morning. Sir.
MR. LOVE: Commissioners, thank you so much. To the
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Chamber, also, thank you very much for acknowledging our business.
We just turned 22 years old, which is quite hard to believe. It
seemed like yesterday.
We've been operating in Collier County since 2010, and for me,
personally, it's been a privilege to have the opportunity to have a
small business and run a small business here in the community, and
we feel very, very blessed as our customers have embraced the things
that we do.
I started many years ago in the pastry and baking industry,
nearly 50 years now, my last job with Ritz-Carlton as their corporate
chef traveling globally 44 weeks a year, months at a time all over the
world, which was certainly an accelerated growth for me.
Having the opportunity to open a business with my wife in 2001,
one month after 9/11, was certainly -- we faced some adversity
initially, but I was very focused on creating something that was full
of integrity, that was made with quality ingredients from my global
travels. It was about artistic expression. It was about doing
something right with a team of accomplished professionals that come
to work every day to do something right.
And after 22 years, on behalf of the 150 ladies and gentlemen
that Norman Love Confections employs that come to work every day
with purpose, we feel so honored to be part of this community. And,
again, thank you so much for the honor. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we're about three minutes
away from our time-certain at 9:30. I'd suggest we go ahead and get
started with that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I agree.
Item #10B
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SUMMARY REPORT OF THE FLORIDA STATE
LEGISLATURE’S OFFICE OF PROGRAM POLICY ANALYSIS
AND GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY (OPPAGA) STUDY
ON EXHAUST SYSTEM NOISE REGULATION FOR MOTOR
VEHICLES AND MOTOR-DRIVEN VEHICLES AND RECEIVE
AN UPDATE FROM QUIET FLORIDA REGARDING REDUCING
NOISE POLLUTION FROM ILLEGAL VEHICLE
MODIFICATIONS. (SPONSORED BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS) - MOTION TO AUTHORIZE COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS TO WORK WITH THE COLLIER COUNTY
SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT, CURRENT LOBBYIST, AND
FLORIDA SENATE PRESIDENT PASSIDOMO TO IMPROVE
FLORIDA STATUTE ON AUDIBLE STANDARDS AND FINE
INCREASES; ALSO, DIRECT STAFF TO WORK WITH “QUIET
FLORIDA” TO BRING EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM TO
EDUCATE REPAIR SHOPS ON ILLEGALLY MODIFIED
MUFFLERS AND TO POTENTIALLY MAKE ADDITIONAL
RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - APPROVED 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Item 10B is a recommendation to hear a
summary report of the Florida State Legislature's Office of Program
Policy Analysis and Government Accountability study on exhaust
system noise regulation for motor vehicles and motor-driven vehicles
and receive an update from Quiet Florida regarding reducing noise
pollution from illegal vehicle modifications.
This item is brought to the agenda at Commissioner Saunders'
request. And Ms. Trinity Scott is here to begin unless, Trinity,
you're starting with the Quiet Florida folks.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
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make just a couple quick introductory comments as we get started, if
that's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir. The floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. I had brought
this -- I brought this forward a couple of times. This noise issue is
really a health issue and a quality-of-life issue, and there are a lot of
citizens in Collier County that are really very upset, and rightfully so,
because of the increasing levels of noise, and a lot of that noise can
be controlled, and that's part of the purpose of bringing this forward.
Senate President Passidomo has helped greatly in this effort, but
there's a lot of work that needs to be done at the state level, and we're
going to talk a little bit about that, and we'll be presenting that to
Senator Passidomo.
The Sheriff's Department has been very effective and very
aggressive in citing vehicles and vehicle operators for excessive
noise. I was looking at some of the statistics. We have, I think,
twice as many citations issued over a period of about a year than they
have over in Dade County. So if you look at, obviously, the
difference in size and the difference in population, that's kudos to our
Sheriff's Department for being very aggressive, but they need more
resources, and we need to even be more effective in enforcement.
We're going to hear from the proponents of Quiet Florida in just
a minute, but part of what they're going to be talking about and part
of what we're going to be discussing in a motion that, ultimately, I
will make at some point is to have our lobbyist working on a couple
things. I want to just kind of go through those real quickly.
There's a standard in Florida where a vehicle noise that is being
emitted from radios, that type of music noise, there is a "plainly
audible" standard that law enforcement can use if a vehicle is
emitting too much noise from music and that sort of thing. There is
no "plainly audible" standard for emissions from exhaust. That's a
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very simple fix. The legislature can fix the statutes so that officers
could use the "plainly audible" standard that would make law
enforcement much more effective.
On Page 19 of the OPPAGA report, there's discussions about
requiring the state agencies to provide more training to law
enforcement on how to deal with noise issues.
On Page 22, there's an update on some of the Florida laws that
need to be improved upon, and that's something that Senator
Passidomo perhaps can assist us with.
On Page 23 of the OPPAGA report, they talk about the "plainly
audible" standard, and it just seems to me an easy fix to make exhaust
noise standard -- a "plainly audible" standard as well.
And so we're going to hear from those folks at this point. And
I'd like to invite -- I think Trinity Scott was going to make a
presentation, but also Mary Tatigian has a PowerPoint and some
comments as well.
So thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
MS. SCOTT: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record,
Trinity Scott, Transportation Management Services department head.
A few months ago, the Transportation Management Services
Department was tasked with looking at noise cameras. There have
been a couple pilot projects that have been going on, quite frankly,
around the world but also in our own backyard over in Miami-Dade.
So our team has looked at the technology that's available. And so
I'm going to give you a quick rundown and a quick update on the
pilot projects and then a little overview on the OPPAGA study.
So there are noise cameras that are available. They range
somewhere from 7,000 per location to $25,000 per location. They
require a trained analyst to review the data and make compliance
decisions.
July 11, 2023
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There are -- as I mentioned, there are several pilot programs, one
within the State of Florida here at the City of Miami Beach, and
Knoxville, Tennessee, New York City, London, and Paris. We did
not go to London and Paris to check out their noise cameras.
In Knoxville, Tennessee, they have deployed a pilot program.
Their data is used to issue warnings using license plate numbers.
They do not currently have state or county laws in place right now to
issue a citation.
What they have found within their pilot program is that large
trucks and motorcycles were often the cause of the violation. And in
what we have been able to ascertain from their data is that they
haven't seen a noticeable change in the number of violations, but it's
still a pilot program that they're continuing to move forward with.
New York City, New York, has the most aggressive program
that they have because they actually do have the opportunity to be
able to issue fines. They started their program in February of 2022.
They are expanding it in '23 and also anticipate expanding it in Fiscal
Year '24.
What they have found with their information is that it doesn't
work well for highways; however, that wasn't necessarily their target
audience either. So it is working well within the neighborhoods and
where you have the slower speeds.
The penalties under their program range from $220 for a first
offense to $2,625 for repeated defaults. So that is something that's
very important when they are progressing through their program.
The City of Miami Beach has a pilot program as well. They
instituted a four-month pilot program starting at about $50,000 for
three cameras. They noted in their initial pilot that they had some
technical issues with capturing the license plate information properly,
but after three months, they augmented that system with a license
plate reader camera.
July 11, 2023
Page 20
The majority of the flagged vehicles are heavy trucks and high-
performance vehicles with stock muffler systems that aren't illegal.
They don't have a mechanism, obviously -- as Commissioner
Saunders just alluded to, they don't have a mechanism to issue
citations, but they are continuing their pilot program with a
second-generation camera from the manufacturer. So the
manufacturer's listening to the feedback that we're getting from the
pilot programs and continuing to modify their equipment.
So the technology to measure and capture excessive vehicle
noise does exist. It's in its evolutionary stage at this time, and we're
continuing to monitor the pilot programs.
Commissioner Saunders discussed the Collier County Sheriff's
Office. They have taken the approach of really working with their
enforcement staff and getting that message out and really enforcing
the existing law that we have -- the laws that we have. You'll see the
total number of violations of 511 compared to Miami-Dade over the
same given time as well as FHP with all counties combined, and then
locally, just in Collier County, Collier County Sheriff's Office is
leading the way in enforcement, head and shoulder above Lee,
Hendry, and Charlotte Counties.
The OPPAGA study -- OPPAGA, just for the audience, is Office
of Program Policy Analysis and Government Accountability. It's the
research arm of the Florida Legislature. They provide data and
research to the Florida Legislature to assist them in budget and policy
deliberations.
What they noted was that between the Florida Motor Vehicle
Noise Prevention and Control Act and the federal Noise Control Act
is that it's complicated, and several of the laws compete with one
another and that, in some instances, we are preempted by the Noise
Control Act.
The law enforcement practices varied by enforcement of
July 11, 2023
Page 21
very -- for enforcement of state law for exhaust noise. Most
citations were equipment related instead of decibel related, and
several responses related to impracticality of the use of decibel
meters. And then there were other options that they noted for noise
enforcement, such as noise cameras.
This really boils down to what the OPPAGA study says. The
legislature -- they provide options to the legislature and what the
legislature can do. The legislature can direct the Department of
Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle to conduct -- or our local law
enforcement agencies to conduct educational and enforcement
campaigns on exhaust noise. We see that. They do a lot of
educational campaigns. You see it on the variable message boards
on I-75. We're actually working with "secure your load" kind of
things to prevent litter. So those things do work.
Direct entities to provide additional training for our law
enforcement officers, expand the use of traffic cameras to include
noise cameras, apply increased fines, direct DEP to review the federal
preemption and recommend updates to Florida law to clarify exhaust
noise provisions so that improved enforcement can occur.
And then, as Commissioner Saunders discussed, create new
approaches to enforce exhaust noise violations such as "plainly
audible" that would allow violations if audible from a certain
distance, nuisance noise standards based on an officer's opinion if
noise is unreasonably loud, or establish a pilot program of probable
cause vehicle testing.
And I thank you, and I'm going to turn it over to Commissioner
Saunders, and I think Ms. Tatigian has a presentation as well.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think
this would be the right opportunity for the public comment from
Ms. Tatigian to present her -- she's got a PowerPoint and a very
lengthy video that we've agreed to limit to one minute, so...
July 11, 2023
Page 22
MS. TATIGIAN: Yes. Good morning, Commissioners, and
thank you. I appreciate your time. We appreciate your time.
Quiet Florida wants to take this time to thank Commissioner
Burt Saunders for putting this on the issue -- on the agenda and
working with us for over a year and a half.
Quiet Florida takes every opportunity possible to let your
constituents know that you care about our welfare; you care about our
quality of life. So thank you very much.
Again, my name is Mary Tatigian, a 40-year resident of Naples,
Florida, a wife, a mom, and a registered nurse of 30 years.
Yep. So we're talking today about modified mufflers. Thanks,
Troy. Troy's working the cameras for me.
We started Quiet Florida almost two years ago due to the
incessant noise from motor vehicles and aircraft traffic. Quiet
Florida is a non-profit community organization working to preserve
peace and quiet in our communities. We have over a thousand
members and growing. Quiet Florida has members from many
different counties in Florida as well.
The last two or three years, Naples has seen a huge change.
Some of the taxpaying residents in Naples have seen their lives do a
180 from having peace and quiet, which they enjoyed in their homes,
to what seems like living in the middle of a racetrack or an airport.
We ask commissioners to help us preserve our quality of life,
our right to peace and quiet inside our homes and on our properties.
The Board of County Commissioners -- I was on your website
and found something very interesting. The Board of County
Commissioners serves as the governing body of the County and has
the responsibility of setting policies that protect the health, safety,
welfare, and quality of life of residents and visitors.
We have heard a lot about builders' rights in the last three years,
but I want to mention resident rights. With growth comes traffic and
July 11, 2023
Page 23
crime. We would like you to consider us in all your decisions
about -- when you're making these decisions about the future of
Naples.
As well as working with Commissioner Saunders, we are very
fortunate to be working with Collier County's finest Lieutenant Dave
Breuning of the Sheriff's Department. He has been an integral part
of our team, and more recently are working with Transportation
Management, Tony Khawaja and Trinity Scott. We appreciate all
their insight and their expertise.
Slide 3, I just wanted to show -- this is probably a little loud, but
I wanted to show a couple minutes of what we experience. One
minute, is that what -- I thought it might be fun. I don't know.
Okay, Troy.
(A video was played.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That wasn't very loud.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Somebody hit the mute button.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Where did it go, Troy?
MS. TATIGIAN: I'll send them over your way.
MR. MILLER: I don't know where it went.
MS. TATIGIAN: Okay. Anyways, this wasn't Naples, but
it's -- it was just examples of -- but we hear the same thing, and the
sheriff can speak about that if you'd like to speak with him.
Under federal law, no person shall remove their catalytic
converters according to the EPA, while presently persons are
removing their catalytic converters to modify their muffler. So at
that time, that is another violation.
Next slide.
According to the World Health Organization, the quality of life
depends on four things: Physical health and level of independence,
psychological state and spiritual level, personal and social
relationships, and environmental conditions. Three of those are
July 11, 2023
Page 24
negatively impacted by the noise.
Next slide.
Health issues related to noise pollution. I know noise is
subjective, but it's chronic, it's repetitive, and it's constant, and we
cannot escape it. We cannot even go inside our home and close the
door.
The physical manifestations are some of these you can see here:
Delayed cognition in children, psychological triggers, cardiovascular
issues, anxiety, depression, changes in immune system. So those are
quite serious.
The vasculature of your blood vessels actually changes with
chronic noise pollution, and they've studied this. There's many,
many studies on this.
Next slide.
There is a statute that was established in 1979. Obviously, they
didn't have noise cameras back then. So we are trying to speak with
Senator Passidomo and see if the legislation can be tweaked in order
for law enforcement to do their job a little bit more efficiently, and if
we want to get ahead of the game, in 2026, the EPA is going to lower
their legal threshold for vehicle noise.
Next slide.
Yes, speaking of -- Trinity had this on her PowerPoint as well.
But the Collier County Sheriff's Department is phenomenal. They
have been working with us for a year and a half and doing everything
that they can do.
Resources: More personnel would be great. They're
outnumbered. They're out-staffed. The noise cameras would be
great because the noise cameras could capture the images and the
sound and issue a ticket, hopefully. This is where we're working
for -- the police officer would not have to stop a vehicle and go to the
vehicle and possibly be harmed. So that's just something to think
July 11, 2023
Page 25
about.
But, yeah, we are very, very grateful for law enforcement.
Quiet Florida backs them 150 percent. We couldn't be where we
were today either without them.
Next slide.
SoundVue is one of the cameras. He is actually -- I've spoken
to him. He's in the United Kingdom. His company is Intelligent
Systems. He'll be coming to Florida to work with Miami, and he's
offered to come here tentatively July 28th, so we're hoping for that.
Next slide.
This is another company I've been in touch with called
Not-A-Loud. There are issues. The noise cameras are in their
infancy, but technology grows, so we're looking forward to that.
Next slide, please.
As Trinity had stated so well, the Office of Program Policy
Analysis and Government Accountability has completed their study.
Quiet Florida will be meeting with Senator Passidomo. Some of our
solutions that we had thought of as a group, noise cameras, more
education, basically everything the OPPAGA study had said, law
enforcement to target car dealerships, body shops, car groups,
schools, et cetera.
Next slide.
Perform more -- the Collier County Sheriff's Department
performs modified muffler operations and tickets folks. The more
they hear about it, the more that they will consider changing or
remodifying their muffler back as it gets more expensive.
We've talked about doing things on the streets that are
like -- well, for instance, 951 is like a six-lane speedway where most
people go 45 to 70 miles an hour. They're racing. We've talked
about barriers or noise -- tried to do something with the noise during
or through that area where it's most heavily populated; sound barriers,
July 11, 2023
Page 26
if possible; opening up other roads, building other roads. I know
that's a discussion to ease up some of the congestion.
On Page 22 and 49 in the OPPAGA study, they had discussed
California as a probable cause decibel testing program. Under this
system, a law enforcement officer would ticket the vehicle, then
the -- then the driver has to appear at a facility to have his or her car
tested. That is something they're considering. The OPPAGA study
mentioned, which we thought would be a great way to lessen the load
on law enforcement, to give them a ticket, and then they have to
follow up with hopefully remodifying their vehicle.
Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles suggests the idea of
having an independent inspection site for noise decibel detection.
Like I said, it removes the technical barrier for law enforcement.
So we're asking, yeah, again, for all of you to consider the
residents of Collier County when you make your decisions moving
forward with growth, et cetera. Thank you.
Any questions?
Thanks, Troy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thanks, Chair.
Ma'am, the one slide that had the federal regulations on the
decibel, can you pull that back up again. I was just kind of making
notes and it disappeared. I just wanted to -- was it, like, 72 decibels?
MS. TATIGIAN: Yeah. Yeah. It's actually fairly lengthy. I
took an excerpt out of it, but it is fairly lengthy, but that was the gist
of what was being said.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I guess -- my follow-up
question, does anybody know what -- the Miami program, what they
set their cameras at?
MS. TATIGIAN: They set it at 90.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: At 90. So it's well over --
July 11, 2023
Page 27
MS. TATIGIAN: Yeah. We're working with Commissioner
Steve Meiner out of Miami Beach; been working with him since last
August. And he -- he's been a huge proponent of this because he
experiences it daily from his condo. So he's a huge proponent of
this. He's been a great advocate for us of getting meetings with
OPPAGA. Hopefully he can join us when we speak with Senator
Passidomo next on this.
Like I said, though, the law's in place. It's just enforcement and
sometimes it's hard for people to really understand what we're going
through if you don't experience it.
The lack of empathy is there, and the lack of understanding.
If -- like I had said before, if you cannot escape the noise even from
your bed or your bathroom, some of your private places that you
want to be to regroup -- we all have hard jobs. It's a stressful job as
an RN. I'd like to come home and not listen to modified mufflers
while I'm watching TV Friday night.
So we're just -- you know, we're all about fun. I'd like people to
have fun, too, but where does your fun end and my peace and quiet
begin? Where is the moderation? This is not going to be perfect.
We're not going to stop everybody, but could we try? Could we try
to tone it down a bit? Like I said, nothing's perfect. With growth,
there's always going to be change.
So it's inevitable but, like I said, you know, if it wasn't a law
already, you know, then we'd have to go about -- and Quiet Florida
hasn't designed this law. It's been here since 1979, so...
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
MS. TATIGIAN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Are there any other
speakers?
July 11, 2023
Page 28
MS. TATIGIAN: No, everybody -- a lot of people are out of
town. It's July.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you for your
comments.
MS. TATIGIAN: Lieutenant Dave Breuning is here, if you
have any questions for our -- for him.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: He might want to come
forward. I've got a couple suggestions, and he may be helpful in
terms of commenting on them.
Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, what I'd like to see happen
this morning would be for the Board to authorize me or some other
member of the Board -- but I would volunteer to do this -- to work
with our lobbyist and with Senator -- Senate President Passidomo to
begin the process of tweaking our Florida statutes to accomplish a
couple things: One, most importantly, to go to the "plainly audible"
standard so law enforcement officers will have that ability, and you
might want to comment on whether that "plainly audible" standard
would be helpful. So that would be number one.
Number two, again, to look at increasing some penalties and
then have the County engage in an education program to educate the
repair shops throughout Collier County as to what the law
is -- because it is illegal to modify a muffler or to modify it to a point
where it makes this much noise -- but to advise the shop owners that
that's a violation. And maybe there could be some operations from
the Sheriff's Department if there's a particular shop that is doing a lot
of that type of modification, to put an end to it, and then also have the
Commission consider the potential for more resources to the Sheriff's
Department for enforcement. And so, perhaps, that would be a
couple things you could comment on in terms of the "plainly audible"
issue and the issue of more resources.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Yes. Lieutenant Dave Breuning
July 11, 2023
Page 29
from the Sheriff's Office.
The plainly audible -- I think all of the recommendations from
OPPAGA would help. "Plainly audible" would definitely help, so
would the probable cause for inspections. I think those are -- would
be paramount. Once you -- the problem that we're having is, is we're
effective in citing people. We've -- I think I spoke last time. I think
we're up to citing one guy 13 different times. So, you know,
the -- and that gets expensive at $613 a ticket after the first one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just ask, then, after the first
or second time when he pays this big fee, it sounds like his vehicle,
then, isn't fixed. It's not modified. So does he just say, I'll pay the
$600 because, you know --
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- because I'm a millionaire or, you
know, my daddy pays the fee for me? But, then, why are they
allowed to continue to drive on, and then they're cited again. It's
almost like, you know, if I hear somebody got 13 DUI's, I'd be like,
after the second one, what happened? So what's the --
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Well, there's no provision in the
statute for anything beyond a citation or a fine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So there's no -- as part of that fine,
he doesn't get a directive that he has 30 days to modify his vehicle --
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- to a certain standard?
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's the loophole, or that's the
thing that's missing.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Correct. And during my
research in all of this, I actually found a -- it wasn't specific to
modified exhaust. It was -- the form that I was reading on was on
modified exhaust, but one of the -- one of the entrants on there
July 11, 2023
Page 30
actually said -- he goes, you just need to factor it into our budget.
He goes, I have tint on my front windshield, and I factor in $113
every month to pay a ticket because I know I'm going to get it. So
that's kind of the mindset that we're up against. They know that
they're going to get the tickets, and they're going to pay them.
So at some point, legislation needs to look at, you know, maybe
deadlining the vehicle or something like that. I don't even know
how that would happen, but something along those lines, because we
have multiple people who are paying these -- they're paying the
tickets, and they're going on, you know, violating.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We could double the fine
each time they get stopped. After about 13 times, they would no
longer be millionaires.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do we know they pay the
fine -- do we know they pay the fine? They don't challenge it and
find a loophole somewhere and it gets excused? We get the cash.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: We're not -- we're not seeing a
lot of challenges. And the ones that we are, we're being ruled in our
favor. We've lost a couple. Most -- it was on our fault. You
know, we charged -- if you look at the statute, we have a 5A and a
5B. 5A is the modification of it. 5B is the operation of the vehicle.
A couple people have charged the 5A, which we can't prove that they
actually did the modification. So we've lost those, but we've learned
and moved on from that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal's got a
question for you, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good morning, Lieutenant.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: Good morning, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Maybe you can refresh my
memory or not. But I remember the "plainly audible" we used to use
July 11, 2023
Page 31
with the loud radios, and I think it was 25 feet or 50 feet from a
vehicle.
But I do remember at some point it was challenged in the 20th
judicial. I don't know that -- and I noted in the challenge, I think the
ruling came down to us in case law that everybody's -- the way it was
written was poorly, I'm just trying to say.
And what happened was, from what I remember -- maybe it's
changed since then -- but everybody's audible’s different. So you
can't have a blanket audible. Like, I may have better hearing than
you, or you may have worse hearing than me. And the courts said
that you have to have something more specific because my audible's
different than yours, and then how can that -- you can rely on that as
your probable cause to actually fine somebody.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: They've recently revisited that.
The legislation recently revisited that, and that is back in effect where
we're 25 feet plainly audible --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: -- from the vehicle. So we're
back to that standard.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What about the issue of
more resources for the Sheriff's Department?
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: That would be -- that would be a
question for the Sheriff. That's something that I don't deal with with
manpower, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Perhaps -- we're obviously in
the middle of our budget cycle, and in September we're going to be
setting the millage rate and setting the different programs. And your
budget's already been reviewed, but it's not too late for us to tweak
that a bit if the Sheriff feels that more resources would be helpful.
LIEUTENANT BREUNING: I'll bring that forward.
July 11, 2023
Page 32
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Because I'm
going to suggest -- and I'll make this as a motion, if it's appropriate,
Mr. Chairman. I'd like to be authorized to work with the Sheriff's
Department; with Lisa Hurley, our lobbyist; and with Senate
President Passidomo to improve Florida statutes as it relates to this,
in particular, to urge the legislature to approve the "plainly audible"
standard just as it exists now for music, to increase fines. There's no
reason why someone who gets 13 violations for this shouldn't be
fined. Literally, by that point it should be multiple thousands of
dollars, and it shouldn't be just you pay your 600 bucks each time.
That's got to increase.
And then also, as part of that, direct our staff to work with Quiet
Florida and perhaps come up with a bit of an educational program so
we can notify the repair shops in Collier County, put it on our web
page, let the public know that it is illegal to modify mufflers to
this -- to a point where they violate state law, and that -- that
violation -- the Sheriff's Department is very capable of enforcing that
if repair shops were violating that law, just like any others. So I'd
like to make that as a motion.
In reference to noise cameras, we're not ready, I don't think, to
do anything with noise cameras at this point. They're being
perfected, and perhaps in six months or a year from now, perhaps
when there's better evidence of how they work, we can bring that
back in our next budget cycle and take a look at whether we want to
deal with noise cameras.
But I think we can do a lot in this legislative session coming up,
and now is the time for us to begin the process of us talking to our
legislators and lobbyists about these issues.
So, Mr. Chairman, I'll make that a motion. If someone else on
the Board wants to take the lead instead of me, that would be up to
the Board.
July 11, 2023
Page 33
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second the motion and
keep you there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll third it.
So we've got -- I wanted to say a few things, but let's at least
vote on the motion. I think it's a smart way forward on an issue that
we do care about that we want to -- we want to attack it correctly, and
I wanted to say a few things after the motion.
But we have a motion and a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
And, Commissioner Saunders, attack.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could you say that a little bit
louder?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: There we go.
What I wanted to say, I think as part of the process as you
follow up at the state level, if Miami is still in the test phase, really
staying plugged in with them to see so we can learn from -- get their
lessons learned. I do want to go on the record that my Harley and
Commissioner Saunders' motorcycle, we're at 71 decibels. We
just -- so we're just under.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So is mine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. And yours.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So is mine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, we're at 71. We're going to
check it as soon as we get home.
July 11, 2023
Page 34
You know what I wanted to say to you, Mary, and as a closing
comment, we get a lot of citizens that come up here that are really
passionate about specific things, and we've got some meetings
coming up where we'll have more.
The one thing that I've always really respected about you is this
is -- there's people out there that go, noise cameras, oh, violating my
rights. Noise, go home. You know, there's no problem with noise.
You come up here all the time, every single time, professional,
prepared, and it allows us to have a healthy dialogue. And whether
we agree or disagree, none of us wake up in the morning wondering
how we could do bad things for the County, but sometimes we're
reminded here, you know, that, you know, we're horrible people, and
we've voted on the wrong thing, and, you know, we're all in this for
the money as politicians.
Every single time, you represent your organization with -- you
do your homework, you come up here with details, you meet with us
all privately, if needed, you know, so that we have -- we can digest
things.
And, you know, really, organizations need to take a page out of
your book, because we're here to dialogue, not just to have people
scream and yell at us or tell us that if we don't do all the things you
just said, we're stupid and dumb and we've ruined the community and
we've turned this place into Miami.
You know, we're trying to work together but, also, we're under
certain stipulations. You know, at times -- you know, we can do
anything, but we can't do everything, or there will be things that
sound great on the PowerPoint slides, and then Mr. Klatzkow says,
you know what? That's illegal, immoral, or unethical. It's not going
to float. And then, you know, we have to sit here and juggle.
But, you know, my closing comment is just you come up here
every single time and really set the bar of how to converse with us on
July 11, 2023
Page 35
a topic, and there's so many controversial things that come up, and it
helps us digest things. And also, you're -- the way you do it, it
helps -- I won't say convince us, but if we don't have all the details, I
can digest what you're saying and go, you know, maybe at the
beginning of this meeting, I would have said, vote no in 30 seconds,
and at the end, I'm like, you know, I'm not so sure. There's some
merit, and it's because we're conversing. So I really appreciate that.
And I think I speak for all of us here that, you know, you're
relentless in this topic. You've been here before. But the way that
you do it is really appreciated.
And, you know, I know Commissioner Saunders will take this
up. We won't let it die on the vine. But please keep us posted on
what -- and we'll look in -- we'll stay plugged in as well, because
when another county is doing a test case, boy, that's really good data
for us so that we can take a look at their -- you know, their historical
analysis, and if they got some takeaways that were awesome, great.
And if there's some things that we're like, ahh -- if they had to do it
all over again, what would they have done? And I'm sure that will
be all part of the analysis.
But thank you for the work you do. And I know you represent
a lot of folks that are part of your organization. But, you know, it's
really impressive and appreciated how you come here and really try
to work with us. So, thank you.
MS. TATIGIAN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any other comments on noise?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, sir. All set.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks. County Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, before we move on, if I
could get a motion to accept the proclamation, Item 4A.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, okay. Second. All in favor?
July 11, 2023
Page 36
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Accepted unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: Item 7 is public comments on general
topics not on the current or future agenda. Troy.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we have nine registered speakers for
this item. I'd like to ask the speakers to queue up at both podiums.
Your first speaker is Tamra L. Mitchell. She'll be followed by
David Silverberg.
MS. MITCHELL: County Commissioners, my name is Tamra
L. Mitchell.
MR. MILLER: Can you pull that mic down.
MS. MITCHELL: Here we go.
I'm a Collier County resident and retired attorney, and I'm here
to talk about a proposed ordinance that's being circulated purporting
to declare Collier County a sanctuary from federal laws that it
determines are unconstitutional, rendering them null and void.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is on the agenda in two
weeks.
July 11, 2023
Page 37
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know, but then she's allowed to
speak on it because it's -- maybe because it's not on the agenda.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's not on the agenda.
MS. MITCHELL: This ordinance was already debated in 2021,
and it was rejected by the Board at that time for good reason, because
it was illegal and, guess what, it's still illegal.
Under Cooper versus Aaron, a state cannot --
MR. KLATZKOW: This matter's coming back. I've already
put the advertising in for the next meeting. It will be on a future
agenda. The Board may hear the public speakers if that's your will,
but that is not normally our process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, this is the clarification I
asked the -- I assumed we would have speakers here. Nobody's here
to stifle anybody, but we do want to follow procedure. And I had
asked the County Manager this weekend, I just said, I expect to hear
some speakers on this. Possible. Nothing's on the agenda for the
Bill of Rights, and, you know, there's plenty of stuff floating around
in draft or otherwise. But if it's not on -- if something's not on
today's agenda, can't anybody speak on it?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's on the next agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So clarify. I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It says on the current agenda
or future agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: And the reason for that is that the purpose
of public speakers is to influence a vote, which generally happens
during a public hearing. Now, you're more than welcome to hear
this person, because this is your process; this is your procedure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: But that is your procedure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, I'll ask my
July 11, 2023
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colleagues. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
From what I understand -- I had heard this was going to be on
the agenda today, and then I was advised that it was going to be put
off for a couple weeks because of the advertising. So we all knew
that it wasn't going to be on today's agenda. I don't think the general
public necessarily knew that based on a lot of things that were
circulating.
I have no problem in listening to the folks this morning. I will
say that the tradition of this board, for as long as I've been in Collier
County, is not to hear and vote on controversial issues in the height of
the summertime.
So we're going to have this come up the second meeting in July.
A lot of people on vacation, a lot of families taking their kids out just
before school gets started again, a lot of folks up north. And so
we've had that tradition.
I think we should hear the folks this morning because if this is
going to come back in two weeks, there are a lot of these folks that
may be on vacation. But what I would urge the Board not to start
the process of hearing very controversial things in the summertime.
We've never done that before, and I think that's just not a very good
trend in terms of public comment.
But you do have a bunch of folks here that have traveled here
to -- they're spending their time here. I have no problem hearing
them even though this is going to be on another agenda in the future.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'll echo that. I
mean -- and I've gone on the record here several times where maybe
I've broken protocol as the Chair but, you know, you do have some
latitude. But I think when people come here -- and also maybe they
get last-minute information or things like that. The bottom line is
the chamber's here are for the people, and so we do want to follow
July 11, 2023
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procedure, so I get that, but we do have some latitude.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: True.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, you know, I think being able
to sort of split hairs and say, well, you didn't get the message soon
enough or you didn't understand the thing, okay, we don't have a
thousand speakers. But I think everything that you said I would
echo. If any other commissioners want to make a comment -- I
would say that we hear from the handful of speakers that are here.
But on the other issue -- and that's sort of a separate
decision -- if this is going to be something that one of the
commissioners here is going to put formally on the agenda next
week, which would be July 25th, that's a separate discussion, and
maybe we have it after we hear, you know, from the speakers who
are here.
So if there's any objection, I agree with Commissioner Saunders,
I want to hear from the people that are here that maybe didn't get the
word or didn't understand sort of the directions.
And that's really, I don't want to say immaterial -- but, you
know, unless there's any objection, ma'am, you know, continue, and
then, Troy, please --
MR. MILLER: I paused the time when you started. Would
you like me to reset the time?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, let's start
fresh. And then we have how many people on this topic?
MR. MILLER: Well, I think everyone here is on this topic or a
related topic. It's not clear by all of their sign-ups, but I think it's all
on this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't think it's --
MR. MILLER: It's nine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't think that's, you
know, over-excessive or anything or we're all going to go to jail by
July 11, 2023
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hearing nine speakers, so...
MR. MILLER: Ms. Mitchell, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, ma'am.
MS. MITCHELL: Thank you for agreeing to hear me today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MS. MITCHELL: I will be gone on the 25th, so this is my
opportunity.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You can always call. You can
always call, you know. Mr. Miller's got Zoom. He's got phone
calls, but anyway...
Proceed, ma'am.
MS. MITCHELL: Thank you for the opportunity. I do want
to talk about it, because it's very important.
Again, this is a proposed ordinance that was brought up in 2021.
It was rejected by the Board, and it was illegal then. It's illegal now.
Under Cooper versus Aaron, a state cannot nullify federal law
by declaring it unconstitutional. The U.S. Supreme Court
unanimously rejected nullification and held that only federal courts
can decide whether federal laws violate the Constitution. Certainly,
Collier County doesn't have that authority.
If nullification by Collier County were allowed, every county in
the country would render its own version of the meaning of the
constitution, resulting in chaos and many problems.
Under the ordinance, any resident could bring suit against any
Collier official or law enforcement officer if the resident argues their
constitutional rights are violated, and the county official would be
personally liable for their own legal defense, paying attorney fees,
court costs, and damages. How will that help Collier County retain
and recruit employees?
Another potential consequence of this ordinance will be to
jeopardize all the County's federal grants and benefits, including
July 11, 2023
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hurricane relief, since the County declares itself free from the
commanding hand of the federal government.
Under such a declaration, how can Collier County cases referred
to federal court get resolved when the County doesn't recognize
federal authority?
How can federal enforcement of criminal investigations,
immigration cases, even be possible in a county that doesn't
recognize federal authority? How do businesses operate in a county
that won't recognize federal rules on commerce, health, safety, labor,
and taxes? What about administration of federal programs such as
Medicare and Social Security in a county that doesn't recognize
federal authority?
All these questions need to be answered before even bringing
such a proposal to the table.
However, there's no reason to propose a Bill of Rights Sanctuary
County in the first place since the United States itself, through its
federal courts, is already a sanctuary for the Bill of Rights in every
jurisdiction, including Collier County.
The federal courts already serve as a forum to determine
whether the federal government overreaches. It recently did this in
the U.S. Supreme Court case involving forgiveness of student loans.
This system already protects you and I and every Collier County
citizen, so why waste time on a proposal that's clearly illegal, will
create many serious problems, and is inherently unnecessary?
I respectfully request that you forego putting this on your agenda
and if by some chance it gets there, that you please reject it again as
you did two years ago. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Silverberg. He'll
be followed by Jane Schlechtweg.
MR. SILVERBERG: Okay. Commissioners, thank you for
the opportunity to speak. My name is David Silverberg. I'm a
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resident of Collier County, District 2, and I want to very much
associate myself with the previous speaker.
And as Commissioner LoCastro said earlier, we don't have a
need to repeat history. The very fact that there are nine speakers
here today, I'm sure mostly on this topic -- and the ordinance hasn't
even been brought forward -- shows that there's a deep concern -- a
deep concern, I think, about -- among the majority of residents of
Collier County with this proposal, and I would urge you all not to
bring it forward and not to put it on the next agenda, because it has
been rejected. It's been fully argued, and it's been shown, I think,
amply to be unconstitutional, unworkable, unviable, and of great
detriment to Collier County.
As the lady said, you know, the sanctuary for the Bill of Rights
is the United States of America. It's the only sanctuary, full stop.
We don't need some kind of successionist proposal that's unviable,
unworkable, and distracting and divisive in this county.
So I would urge whoever was thinking of proposing this
ordinance to simply drop it and perhaps put in a resolution. We
already passed a resolution two years ago stating Collier County's
commitment to the Bill of Rights and its intention to uphold it in
perpetuity. I think that's more than adequate. That should reassure
anybody who thinks that we weren't, you know, upholding the 10
first amendments to the Constitution.
So let's save ourselves all a lot of time, save the County a lot of
money, save everybody a lot of problems, and, you know, look
forward to Collier County's next 100 years, not looking back.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jane Schlechtweg. She'll
be followed by B.T. Esquivel.
MS. SCHLECHTWEG: Yes. Good morning, County
Commissioners. Thank you.
July 11, 2023
Page 43
My name is Jane. I'm a resident of District 1. And so far I'm
an American citizen. But if you propose -- this proposed ordinance
were to go into effect, I will no longer hold that.
The previous speakers have kind of taken the wind out of my
sails, so I won't repeat everything that they had to say. But I do want
to remind you that there is a Supremacy Clause in the U.S.
Constitution that establishes that federal law is the supreme law of
the land, superseding conflicting state or local laws.
So I also want to remind you that this morning we took a pledge
to the flag to the country that we would be allegiant to our
government. If you were to pass this ordinance, you would be in
violation, ethically, of that ordinance.
And, lastly, I'm sure you all know that there are legal
mechanisms in place if you do not like a federal law, as seen by the
recent Supreme Court rulings on affirmative action and student loans,
to name a few.
So seceding from the union is probably not the best choice.
Perhaps the supporters of this ordinance who cannot look beyond the
shortsightedness of the proposed ordinance, cooler heads will prevail,
and we can put this all behind us.
Thank you for your time and your consideration.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is B.T. Esquivel, and he'll be
followed by Susan Cone.
Sir, I hope I'm getting your name right.
MR. ESQUIVEL: You're doing fine. Thank you.
I'm going to make this quick. I know I've only got three
minutes, so I'm going to get right to it.
First of all, just for clarification, earlier, if you look at our
background here, Collier County is in all capital letters. You look at
the flag over there. All three of them are in gold trim. According to
the national flag, Title 4, Section 1 and 2, a yellow fringe is not
July 11, 2023
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authorized. It's a commercial entity. So when we did our Pledge of
Allegiance, we did it to the commercial entity, not to the true
American Republic, just so you know.
The reason I'm here today is we strictly moved here to this
community a couple years ago, almost three now, to investigate the
County for corruption. We were welcomed here by open hands in
the very beginning by Alfie Oakes, Patrick Dearborn, Bill,
everybody. Once we started bringing out this information, I was
blackballed by the Republican party and everybody within the
situation because, again, there's a lot of interactions that are taking
place.
The first interaction that I'd like to bring to the attention here
and finalize is with the county clerk: Failure to operate outside the
corporate structure, which violates her oath of office she signed;
failure to perform her duties as dual roles as a corporate entity and a
constitutional officer; failure to perform recording documents, a
violation of Federal Statutes 18 U.S.C. 2071, which I did sue the
County as well as her.
Instead of moving it outside of the county, which they should
have done because there's a conflict of interest, they dismissed the
case locally here in the county.
So failure to perform her duties under the Homestead Act of
Domicile, giving people a choice; failure to perform FOIA requests.
This is the area of the Sunshine Law.
When we asked for the names of each and every individual that
works for the county clerk, position, salary, this is our response: As
custodian of the public records for the Clerk of Circuit Court and
Comptroller for Collier County, I'm in receipt of your public records
request. In response to your request, I have forwarded a complete
organizational chart of the Clerk of the Circuit Court Comptroller.
She sent us an organizational chart with just the positions with
July 11, 2023
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no names, no salaries, and said that she did not have to do this due to
the fact that it was under a security statute, okay?
Well, we did the same thing in several other counties throughout
the State of Florida because -- again, because we sued here, I feel I'm
being discriminated against because they're not bringing forth actual
facts.
So we asked Escambido [sic] County; Hillsborough County; Lee
County; Manatee County; Miami-Dade County, which is the largest
in our state; Pinellas County. Each and every one of them sent what
we requested with no issues, no problems, no BS.
So I'm here today to make you folks aware -- because you are
operating as a commercial entity -- I am now a secure party creditor
which allows me to face and put liens against the County if I choose
to do so, just so you know. And the only way you can take those
liens away is through a court process.
And we're going to be utilizing all of the records that you've
been doing here for the last two years. I've accepted each and every
one of your oaths except for the new two people that have been here.
I'm accepting your oath of office today on a public record. You will
also receive information directed to your home.
So, again, I'm asking for the immediate resignation of our
county clerk for fraud and so forth.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can you wrap up, sir. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Susan Cone. She'll be
followed by Kate Tardif.
MS. CONE: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record,
my name is Susan Cone. I've been a resident of Collier County for
48 years. My three children were born and raised here, and I have
owned two businesses here. And I am, too, here to speak against the
proposed Bill of Rights sanctuary ordinance that we heard might
come up later on in this meeting and maybe be put on the agenda for
July 11, 2023
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the July 25th meeting.
And I agree with Commissioner Saunders' comments that
important matters like this should not be brought up in the dead of the
summer, as it was in 2021 of July, when nobody is here to speak their
thoughts about it.
So I hope that you will have the wisdom and the foresight to not
let this proposed ordinance move forward. It was voted against in
2021, and I ask you, what's changed since then? What has changed
since July of 2021?
I think we still have the same questions and concerns. For
example, have we determined whether you or the Sheriff will be
determining what is -- what federal law is constitutional or is not
constitutional? And I know you're working on your budget. Have
you budgeted for another County Attorney and all the legal fees that
might be -- that will be associated with the actions that will be
brought forth?
Have you considered the economic consequences when
businesses and tourists are hesitant to invest in a dysfunctional and
lawless county? And will, quote, being free from the commanding
hand of the federal government and refusing to cooperate with federal
government officials jeopardize the County's federal grants or make
the County ineligible for FEMA assistance?
And have you researched the consequences of what happens in
other counties that have passed such an ordinance and when
law-abiding citizens are convicted of federal crimes because they're
confused about what is legal and what isn't legal?
So with all due respect, I don't think that any of the county
commissioners or our county sheriff has the ability or the authority to
interpret whether or not a federal law is constitutional. That's the
role of the Courts.
And here's how democracy works in the United States of
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America: If we don't like a law, we work hard to elect people that
will pass laws that we want, and we vote for those people, or we
bring the matter to the court. We don't just say I don't like this law,
and I'm not going to follow it.
So I really hope you won't let this move forward. I worry what
will happen to our beautiful county if it becomes chaotic and
dysfunctional. And thank you very much for your consideration.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kate Tardif. She'll be
followed by Todd Truax.
MS. TARDIF: First I want to say thank you to Mr. LoCastro
for your comments before we started today. It is -- it is -- I'm
grateful to hear some of the expressions of concern about following
the right order and for also your conclusion to respect that people did
make an effort to get here. And it is hard to know which end is up
when it comes to the structure of these meetings. So now I'm going
to get right to it.
If you've never seen one of these, it's the -- it's Key West's conch
republic passport, and it's embossed with a motto: "We seceded
where others failed." At least this one is tongue in cheek. Their
1983 secession lasted exactly one minute.
If this deliberately anti-America ordinance is voted on -- voted
in by our county commissioners today or any day, we may as well
declare our succession from the United States of America, because
this piece of work officially declares that Collier County and its
citizens are above the laws of Florida and of the United States of
America. We give ourselves the right to honor only those laws that
suit our fancy.
Furthermore, the body considering this is actually a little
hypocritical. We launch every committee meeting with our Pledge
of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the
republic for which it stands. We deliberately declare our first
July 11, 2023
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allegiance to nation, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and our
laws. Oaths that protect and defend those very things are taken by
decent and honorable, current and former, American military, police,
and elected officials. What does it mean to dishonor those oaths?
Just because a band of noisy constituents and some bad-actor
officials want a law to bless their constitution nose-thumbing, who
are these patriots that would even propose Collier County literally
take stands against our nation for which we stand one nation under
God?
"No" is the right answer to political pressures from the minority
of Collier County constituents who propose such inflammatory
anti-American lawmaking. Not for nothing. Claiming sanctuary
status will certainly cost all Collier County
taxpayers -- sorry -- obscene amounts of tax dollars defending
lawsuits and challenges in county, state, federal, and even possibly in
supreme courts. The Supreme Court already has history denying
states and local governments the power to nullify federal law. The
Constitution couldn't be plainer. It is clearly illegal. Saying it's
legal don't make it so.
So despite an outspoken minority's pressure to put this on the
agenda, legally its discussion is pointless except for drama. The fact
is, it's DOA, dead on arrival.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Could you wrap up, please, ma'am.
Thank you.
MS. TARDIF: So "no" is not just the right answer to
supporters of this latest assault on American democracy; it's the only
answer.
Thank you, Commissioners, for your time and consideration.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Todd Truax, and he'll be
followed by Katherine Cunningham.
MR. TRUAX: Good morning. I'm Todd Truax. I'm a
July 11, 2023
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resident of Bonita Springs, but my kids grew up with Burt's kids at
Poinciana Elementary and Gulfview. So I've been down here, what,
25 years now. We've both gotten a little gray and thicker.
I'm a nursing home administrator just up the street here on
Airport-Pulling Road. We're in a nursing home and assisted living
facility.
I'm here to speak also on the Bill of Rights Sanctuary County
ordinance. I'm not the wordsmith my predecessors are, but I still
have some opinions to voice on that matter, which I hope you will
bury.
Just to clarify, will the ordinance disregard Amendments 11
through 27? And opposite of sanctuary, then will they be
backwoods or imperiled amendments?
I think the point of this ordinance is to perhaps own the libs, I'm
guessing. Why on earth would you offer sanctuary to the Bill of
Rights and propose the other 17 amendments are no longer your
responsibility?
Is your aim to create a lawless county? Just for the benefit of
my residents at my facility -- there's about 100 of them that I'm
responsible for -- we have to abide by CMS's rules, the Center for
Medicaid and Medicare Services. So when they come for their
annual inspection, can I disregard that?
Will the body reinstate the poll tax? By owning the libs, does
this also include owning slaves? Because I have some labor
challenges in healthcare. So if you can help me recruit nurses and
CNAs, I'd appreciate that.
The justifications on this are just short on facts, and the
conclusions are preposterous. It seems to me you're no more
providing a sanctuary to the Bill of Rights than targeting the people
of color, women, and other protected groups. It reads like a hate
speech under the guise of a dusty proclamation. I had the
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displeasure of reading it last night and again this morning.
I suggest you reconsider this assault on democracy and stick to
the position you've been elected to, public service for public benefits
on a county level. Roads, bridges and utilities may not be glamorous
to you, but your citizens are counting on you to focus there.
Just practice beyond -- within your scope of practice. That's
what our healthcare folks do. Roads, bridges, and drains and dumps
fall within your purview of County Commission. Constitutional law,
executive orders, and judicial decisions are not.
Please -- here's my favorite part that plays back to the car. This
noise ordinance would fall outside of the Bill of Rights. Would we
as citizens then be able to file suit against the Commission and law
enforcement for citations regarding noise violations? My noisy
Orange Fury Mustang GT is my free speech.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Katherine Cunningham.
She'll be followed by Melanie Wicker.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning. My name's Katherine
Cunningham, and I'm a volunteer with Moms Demand Action. I
also work as a trust and estates lawyer. And I'm currently taking
unpaid vacation time in order to make this statement.
On behalf of Mom's Demand Action, I'm here to oppose the
sanctuary county ordinance that we understand may be introduced
later today. We certainly hope that you'll reconsider.
Everyone loves the Bill of Rights, and if you're just hearing
about this ordinance for the first time, you might think it sounds like
support for basic American principles. It isn't. This proposed
ordinance is contrary to our constitutional system of government and
is intended to allow the county sheriff to unilaterally override
Congress and our judicial system.
As you may recall, this ordinance was originally introduced two
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years ago as the Second Amendment Protection Act and then
broadened to the entire Bill of Rights, but the original focus was to
prevent the enforcement of federal gun laws in Collier County. The
same ordinance was rejected by the Board of County Commissioners
in July 2021. What has changed in the past two years?
This ordinance was introduced with the support of the American
Constitutional Rights Union consistent with the national trend that we
have seen pushed by the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers
Association. These groups have names that sound good, but they've
pushed an extreme antigovernment agenda. For example, they have
argued that gun safety laws like background checks and Red Flag
Laws are unconstitutional despite the clear evidence that these laws
are effective at preventing gun violence and consistent rulings from
the courts to uphold them under the Second Amendment.
So I want to focus my remarks on Red Flag Laws in particular,
which are also referred to as risk protection orders by the Sheriff.
And this law was passed by the Florida Legislature and signed by the
Governor following the Parkland shooting.
In Collier County, we are fortunate that our Sheriff's Office has
successfully implemented the Red Flag Law to temporarily remove
firearms from individuals who pose an immediate danger to
themselves or others pursuant to a court order.
In contrast, many of the counties that have declared themselves
to be a Second Amendment sanctuary, the sheriffs in these counties
have refused to enforce Red Flag Laws based on the sheriff's personal
interpretation of the constitution.
In one recent and tragic example, the sheriff in Colorado Springs
declined to pursue any protection orders and, subsequently, a shooter
with a violent history killed five people and wounded many more at
Club Q in a shooting that could have been prevented.
More than 120 Americans are shot and killed on average every
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single day, and guns have become the leading cause of death among
children and teens in our country. This bill reflects an effort to block
bipartisan gun safety laws enacted with overwhelming support of
voters and to bypass the Court's interpretation of the Constitution to
the detriment of public safety.
Please vote no on the sanctuary county bill if it comes before
you, and we offer to meet with each of you individually to share more
about how you can prevent gun violence here in Collier County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Melanie Wicker. She'll
be followed by Kristina Hauser.
MS. WICKER: Hello. I'm Melanie Wicker. I am a full-time
Naples resident.
I think a lot of us remember the TV show Gunsmoke. The
show was set in the 1800s in a small Kansas town named Dodge.
Matt Dillon, a brave man and a man of unwavering principles, was
the town's marshal. Over and over again he found himself up
against a hotheaded group of men who were ready to shoot or hang
someone without a trial, and every time Dillon stood up to them,
warning them in strong language that he would enforce the rule of
law, which he did.
When people feel threatened or angry, they can start acting like
a posse in Dodge. They want to take the law into their own hands,
declaring that this law is constitutional, but this one is not.
The Bill of Rights does spell out a long list of our rights, but the
Constitution also sets out a process for determining whether a law is
constitutional or not. In the United States of America, the power to
make that determination rests not with a group of people but with the
courts. In other words, while claiming to value the Constitution, this
ordinance, in fact, seeks to undermine it.
Do we really believe that Sheriff Rambosk has the authority or
July 11, 2023
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the time to enforce this law but not that one? As determined by
whom? A small group of people who've made themselves judge and
jury over the rest of us?
That's not only dangerous for us, it's also dangerous for Sheriff
Rambosk. According to a Harvard law professor, quote, when a
sworn public official refuses to enforce the laws adopted by voters,
that is arguably a dereliction of duty and a violation of a law
enforcement officer's oath to obey the Constitution, unquote.
Why would we put our own sheriff in legal jeopardy? Not only
that, but why open the County to lawsuits?
In 2021, when this ordinance was first proposed, Collier County
Attorney Jeffrey Klatzkow said, the big issue is going to be attorney's
fees. There is an incentive for attorneys to bring actions under this,
unquote.
In 2021, our own Councilman Burt Saunders voted against it.
He said, quote, the solution to the concerns that the pro-ordinance
folks have is really at the ballot box, unquote.
Exactly. I hope this ordination -- this -- ordination. Yeah,
ordination. I hope this ordinance will never come before this board,
but if it does, please follow the examples of Marshal Dillon and
Councilman Saunders. Stick to the rule of law and abide by the
Constitution as it is written. Vote no to vigilantism. Vote no to the
ordinance.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker and final speaker for public
comment is Kristina Hauser.
MS. HAUSER: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioners.
I hadn't intended to address this matter today but rather to wait
until it does appear on an agenda, which hopefully it will. But I just
feel it necessary to respond to the many inaccurate comments that
were made this morning.
July 11, 2023
Page 54
It's a lot of hyperbole and fear mongering, so I want to define for
you what the scope is of the ordinance that hopefully will come
before you in two weeks, and it's much narrower in scope than the
picture that's been painted this morning.
The ordinance makes it unlawful for the County to help the
federal government in carrying out or executing unlawful,
unconstitutional mandates of the federal government.
So it's not nullification, as we heard this morning. It's not
rendering just, like, willy-nilly federal law to be unconstitutional in
your view or that you're not going to -- we're not going to abide by
federal law as a county. It's specifically saying that no local official
or employee will participate in carrying out or executing
unconstitutional federal orders or mandates.
And this rests soundly upon well-settled law. It's called the
anti-commandeering principle or doctrine, and it's been upheld by the
Supreme Court over and over and over again. That's why we see
sanctuary counties from immigration policies, the proliferation of that
throughout the United States. More than half the counties in the
United States currently are Second Amendment sanctuaries.
So this concept has been tested elsewhere and upheld every
single time by the courts, and I'll address the matter more fully in two
weeks when hopefully the ordinance will be heard.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That is your final registered speaker on this
item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We will take a break until
10:50.
(A brief recess was had from 10:38 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So please show Commissioner
McDaniel is absent. We will have his chair removed, and his
July 11, 2023
Page 55
computer will be sold. Proceeds will go to the County.
No. So, County Manager, we're at 10A, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We're at 10A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
Item #10A
DISCUSSION TO CLEAR THE RECORD CONCERNING LAST
MEETING’S PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVAL OF THE
TREE FARM MIXED-USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
(ITEM 9A). (SPONSORED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS) -
MOTION TO INCLUDE/ADD COMMENT LETTER PACKET TO
THE RECORD BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL- APPROVED 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: 10A is a discussion to clear the record
concerning last meeting's public hearing and approval of the Tree
Farm Road Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development, which was
Item 9A. This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner
Saunders.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, sir, you
have the floor.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
At the last meeting we unanimously approved the application for
the Tree Farm project. There was a little bit of a glitch. There were
several speakers that were online waiting to make their -- or on Zoom
waiting to make their comments, and we had a little technical glitch,
and they were not able to be located and were not able to make their
comments.
Troy actually communicated with them to -- he actually
July 11, 2023
Page 56
apologized. No apology was necessary, but he apologized on behalf
of the County for the glitch. And we all know Troy does a
wonderful job.
So I started receiving some emails and some letters saying,
clearly, the County intended to cut these people off so that they
would not hear the negative comments on the project from the
County. Obviously, that was not the case, and I knew that I was
going to respond to that in some way.
Initially, I was going to ask for a motion to reconsider for the
purpose of clarifying the record and letting those folks speak, but I,
subsequent to that, had a communication with Cheryl Ollila on the
issue and received a letter from her. I'm going to read parts of this
letter into the record.
My purpose this morning is to clarify the record. I've spoken to
the attorney for Tree Farm. He has no problem with modifying the
record to reflect the comments of folks that wrote letters and wanted
to speak on this. I delivered to each commissioner yesterday a copy
of those letters, and I've got extra copies for the Clerk and whoever
else would need that, of this little package.
But I do want to read this one letter as we add these things to the
record, and this is from Cheryl Ollila. And it says, Commissioner
Saunders, thank you for getting back to me and your offer to place
the amendment to the Tree Farm MPUD on the BCC meeting agenda
for July 11th for reconsideration.
We know it was not the BCC's intention to block anyone from
speaking; rather, this was a mistake, and mistakes do happen. We
want to be clear -- and this is what I think is important. We want to
be clear that we are not opposed to the amendment and very much
support the affordable housing that will be part of this development.
We are focused on the resultant traffic from the increased density that
was approved.
July 11, 2023
Page 57
And so the letters are not necessarily in opposition to the project,
but they have a lot of concern about traffic, and we all do.
And so I have a package, Mr. Chairman. I'll make a motion to
include this package of letters that's been distributed to all the
commissioners to be added to the record, and that will conclude this
particular matter. So I'll make that motion.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
You know, I -- we all had gotten emails from those folks, and
although they weren't present here and whatever the glitch was, I
remember in my comments, I sort of summarized what a lot of their
emails were -- their concerns were, which was traffic, and I think we
called either -- Mr. Bosi up to the podium, if I remember correctly, to
address that exact issue, regardless if people were here.
And I personally heard what I needed to hear from the County
saying, well, of course, anything you build is going to increase
traffic, but is it going to be over and above what those roads can hold,
and I remember hearing, you know, that that wasn't the case.
And so it wasn't that we ignored traffic. We did address it but,
you know, now at least, for the record. And then, you know, we'll
continue to work with those citizens to make sure that, you know,
July 11, 2023
Page 58
their concerns are addressed. And, you know, traffic is part of the
major issue that gets looked at, you know, with this particular area.
Okay. So now we've already done 10B. I'm sorry. Go ahead,
sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We just have the motion.
I'm not sure if we voted on it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, we did.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We did. It passed 5-0.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good to go.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, in our 11 items, we do
have four items, but the only item that has a speaker is Item 11D, and
that speaker needs to leave by noon. So I'm just bringing that to
your attention, if you'd like to take Item 11D ahead of the other three,
which are staff items, so we can hear the speaker and be sure they're
out of here by noon.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, that seems reasonable.
Item #11D
RESCIND THE CONTRACT AWARD OF REQUEST FOR
PROPOSAL (“RFP”) #22-8023, “OUTSOURCING OF COUNTY
MARINAS,” TO BLUWATER FLORIDA, LLC (“BLUWATER”)
AND RESOLICIT. (AMY PATTERSON, COUNTY MANAGER) -
MOTION TO DENY RESOLICITING THE CONTRACT BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO- APPROVED 4/1
(COMMISSIONER KOWAL OPPOSED) MOTION TO ENTER
AGREEMENT AS BID MINUS WATERCRAFT AND CASH
SALES BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED 4/1
(COMMISSIONER KOWAL OPPOSED)
July 11, 2023
Page 59
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Item 11D is a recommendation to
rescind the contract award for Request for Proposal 22-8023,
outsourcing of county marinas to BluWater Florida, LLC, and
re-solicit.
Hello, Commissioners. You'll recall we did hear this item last
agenda where some concerns were raised about the award of this
contract at that time specifically related to the rental of watercraft.
The direction of the Board was to go back and speak with
BluWater to see if that item -- if that issue could be rectified, and in
the process of doing so, unfortunately, some other inconsistencies
and issues have arisen related to this contract having to do with the
percentage of sales being included or being allowed as part of the
negotiation as well as some issues that have arisen as part of the
negotiation process.
Because of that consideration, we are making the
recommendation that we rescind the offer on this one, on the
contract, and that we go to re-solicit the item, making sure that we
have addressed all of those items that may have been unclear in the
original solicitation so that all bidders that are interested in this
particular contract would understand the terms that the County is
looking for and the terms under which that they should propose.
And so with that, I will to leave it to you if you have questions
for me or if you want to hear the speaker, and then we can have a
conversation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
MR. DAVIDOW: Yes. Commissioners, thank you, and thank
you for the time today. I'm here on behalf of BluWater. I'm an
attorney here. I think --
MR. MILLER: Could you state your name, please, sir.
MR. DAVIDOW: Sure. Joseph Davidow, for the record.
I think most of you I've met before, and somewhere along the
July 11, 2023
Page 60
lines.
That being said, BluWater had come to me with regard to this.
If we looked at the executive summary, I think this is important for
procedures and process. And the executive summary says here in
the middle paragraph under the considerations, the recommendation
contract award was contested -- this is an important part -- and the
Board requested changes to the contract to eliminate water services.
And so what I want to do is run through. Because when we say
that there's a contest to a bid or an approval of a recommendation,
things aren't as, let's call them, ministerial as they may appear.
On 4/13 of '23, there was a recommendation from Procurement
Services to award the contract to BluWater. On 4/17, the contract
was negotiated and reduced to writing and actually executed by
BluWater. On 6/27 of '23, there was a Board meeting before
you-all, and there was an approval at that board meeting if BluWater
removed a portion relating to the watercraft water
services -- watercraft services.
The contest, I believe, that's being suggested was commentary
made probably from this podium at that meeting on June 27th of '23.
The problem here is that it doesn't follow our own municipal code
under 2-208 for protest of bids. This is exactly what it was, but it
wasn't done within the time period in order to protest a bid. In fact,
under Subsection 3, you have three calendar days to protest the bid
after an award. The award, again, was on April 13th of 2023.
So the only thing that actually could have occurred was within
the initial negotiation process that there was the issue relating to
watercraft services. It didn't. The issue relating to watercraft
services came from commentary here, which is essentially trying to
bring in the back door what you couldn't bring in the front.
The municipal code is, if I go forward under 2-208,
Subsection 9, failure to file a formal protest within the time and
July 11, 2023
Page 61
manner prescribed by this policy shall constitute a waiver of the right
to protest by any protesting party as defined in Subsection A.
So what I'm presenting to you is simply that we're stepping way
outside of policies, procedures, and municipal ordinances that we're
all supposed to follow in saying that we have to now put this contract
back to bid.
You guys gave a direction. And are you permitted to give that
direction? I think that's a gray area, but possibly yes. But what
can't come back from that direction is that the ministerial portion of
that comes back and says now we rescind and then send it back out,
because there are damages. This was a closed bid, and now that
whole bid process is out there, and anybody can change it. And we
wouldn't have these, as we do in federal law, to protest bids, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So here's what I'll say to
that -- because most of the marinas that are in question here are in my
district, so this is very important to me. And the disappointing thing
is who's losing here are our citizens, because we have marinas that,
you know, have minimal services right now.
I didn't look at this as a challenge or a protest is what killed this
whole thing. The challenge and protest brought up some specific
things that none of us were aware of, and even some of our County
staff weren't aware of, that the initial RFP and then the later
negotiations after your client was selected, the county was -- did not
follow procedure properly.
So it wasn't that whoever -- this is my interpretation. But the
people that came up to protest or challenge, that's not what killed this
and had us decide to possibly send this out for a rebid. It was in
their testimony that we started peeling back the onion. Because I sit
here and I go, you know, if a request for proposal goes out and it's
very specific and then it picks one particular contractor, then that
contractor doesn't sit down with the County or the company or
July 11, 2023
Page 62
whoever and then say, okay, now that I've won the bid, now let's see
what other extras we can put in there.
And the County allowed your client to do that, and I think that's
what the -- you know, when they wanted to add the addition of
watercraft -- no, just hear me out.
When they wanted to add the addition of watercraft, that's where
we all took a pregnant pause and said, well, wait a minute. That
wasn't in the RFP. So, technically, the other companies that wanted
to make a bid, if they would have been able to negotiate after the fact,
and that -- that was what really was the conversation here that there
was negotiation by the county after the fact with your client. And,
you know, your client has every right to try to, you know, throw
something out and then -- and then see what happens but, you know,
we were -- we were sort of smacking the hand of our own county
employee saying, the minute your client wanted to negotiate
additional things, even additional things that maybe would have been
a benefit, our County staff should have said that window is closed.
Those are all really great ideas that I wish we would have thought of
in the original RFP.
And we could have done -- the County staff could have done
one of two things: Could have looked at your client and said, wow,
we really like your ideas. You know what? Time out. We wish
we would have put that in the original RFP or, hey, the door's closed.
You've been selected with the verbiage of the current RFP as is.
We're not here to -- there's no renegotiation after the company's
been selected, and that's where the mistake was made, and that's
totally on the County.
And so, you know, we sat up here in good faith and thought, you
know, if we really -- if we're trying to do this right, we're not going to
try to, you know, salvage this. And I think the proposal was made to
go back to BluWater and say, well, would you -- would you take the
July 11, 2023
Page 63
contract and take out the watercraft? I think even that sat
uncomfortably with some of us that, you know, we were trying to sort
of, you know, lessen the air and the damage by at least just sort of
salvaging, you know, the contract.
And, you know, in the end, I think, after talking to our own
County staff and admitting the error and not telling your client, hey,
you can't throw a bunch of extras into the -- into the narrative of the
RFP after the fact -- that's what -- that's what did it. You know, in
my opinion it wasn't people who came to the podium and challenged
it, and we accepted that challenge. It was their -- it was the details in
their testimony that got our attention of possible county missteps or
definite, you know, county missteps.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I -- I just -- you know,
the representation that Joe's made with regard to the protest wasn't the
consequences of my decision. I learned new information from the
gentleman that was at the podium. I learned new information that
representations were made to the public with regard to the bidding
and their interpretation of the process by staff that leadership wasn't
even aware of. That was consequently why I came up with the
decision to go back to BluWater.
I actually even expressed a concern because the Pandora's box
had been opened. We knew what BluWater had offered. How are
we going to go back into a fair process? And I actually even said out
loud that when we -- if BluWater isn't interested in removing the
watercraft rental out of their agreement, that we have to set the
minimum bid parameters at that so that we're at least halfways
coming in with a fair -- fairer playing field.
Number two -- and I'm going to go to my County Attorney right
now. My understanding is all contracts are this board's right to
accept, reject, or not. County Attorney?
July 11, 2023
Page 64
MR. KLATZKOW: That's why we come to you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: We always come to you with a
recommendation to do something, and then it's the Board's
prerogative whether to take that recommendation, change that
recommendation, whatever.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Henceforth, it wasn't the
normal process of a bid objection or a -- or -- whatever it was you
said. It wasn't -- it wasn't --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Challenge or a protest.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It wasn't the challenge -- the
protest. That's the word I was looking for. Thank you, Rick. It
wasn't a normal protest process.
The contract came to us, and the recommendations that we made
were based upon that process and the suggestions that were made by
a couple of the folks that had come to the podium with regard to that.
So we thought -- I know, myself, I felt that that was the fairest
way for us to move forward with this. Just for your -- and, again,
we're not --
MR. DAVIDOW: I appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- here to debate that.
You've expressed your -- you've expressed your client's opinions with
regard to that. And, again, if they feel they've been damaged by this
process, they certainly have a process of their own that they can, in
fact, pursue.
Do I have any questions for you? Because, I mean --
MS. PATTERSON: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- I spoke with the County
Manager about this yesterday, and I felt that at our last meeting we
were on a better path. And, again, I don't agree with the protest
process at all.
July 11, 2023
Page 65
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, and then,
Commissioner Saunders, you're on deck, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I will agree with Commissioner
LoCastro and Commissioner McDaniel, this was not anything about a
protest or a contest. It was strictly awareness that came forth again
that the RFP process was ambiguous at best, and it wasn't offering a
chance for the public to bid apples and oranges.
So as far as the damages, I think -- I may be wrong, but I think
the new process is going to come out and require some different
criteria, like, you know, with specific items to be included and the
services and the items for sale and maybe a straight fee to the County
and -- in lieu of percentages of sales. So I think the -- if we do
something like that, then that may not -- that may not damage your
client as bad. They can refigure their numbers and, you know, their
hand's not exposed, so to speak.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
I think you made a really good argument, so I want to
compliment you on that in terms of reviewing the ordinances and the
processes. And it raises a question as to whether or not we actually
awarded a contract when we sent this back to staff and said, if
BluWater will do X, then go ahead and give them the contract. And
I think that's really kind of the technical question.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But going beyond that -- and
maybe, you know, if a Court determines that we did, then, of course,
there's all kinds of issues associated with that.
I'm hopeful that we don't get to that point, because BluWater
made a really good bid, great company, and there's a high probability,
I would assume, that BluWater, if there's a rebid of this, will certainly
be very favorably considered.
July 11, 2023
Page 66
So I guess the question for the County Attorney is, did we
actually award a contract? We haven't signed one. We just directed
staff to sit down with BluWater and say, if they were willing to take
the watercraft out of the contract, then go ahead and award the
contract. But is that really an award? And I think that's a legal
question that we're --
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, my recollection is the Board, in
essence, modified the contract and then put it back on the bidder to
see whether or not they would accept. My understanding was the
bidder did not accept that. I could be in error.
MR. DAVIDOW: The bidder accepted that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The bidder did accept that.
So it's really kind of a legal issue. I agree with my colleagues on the
Board that we do need to rebid this, but I'm just kind of trying to
ferret out whether there was a -- whether we've created a little bit of
a --
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, you've created -- it's a little murky,
I'll give you that. But, you know, I do think that the best recourse is
simply to rebid it on a different structure so it's like an annual fee,
and be done with it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, then, I guess my final
comment would be, it looks like that's the direction we're going to go
in. I would ask BluWater to work with us. I certainly
understand -- if BluWater wants to file a lawsuit, I understand all
that. That's --
MR. DAVIDOW: I don't --
MR. KLATZKOW: And please, let me note, sir, that the
contract is terminable by the County at will. So by the terms of the
contract itself, even if you take the position that we do have a fully
executed agreement, we could just terminate it, and that would be the
end of it.
July 11, 2023
Page 67
MR. DAVIDOW: And I don't think it's BluWater's intent to
have me here to suggest that there's a lawsuit forthcoming against the
County. BluWater cared about this enough to have me show up and
demonstrate to the Commission that they want the contract enough
that I'm here to demonstrate that I think there was a contract made.
Ministerial, albeit. You do X, and we'll give you Y. Well, we
accepted X, and that's the issue.
And the only thing I just brought up as, let's say, for the
Commission at large is that I understand everything that
Commissioner LoCastro said, Commissioner McDaniel,
Commissioner Hall, but it wasn't brought up within your own
discussion with regard to the watercraft services.
So, essentially, any protester has an opportunity to come in at
the end well past the period to protest, bring up an issue of protest for
which now you've learned about it, and we've now circumvented a
portion of the protesting part in the code. So I think that's just
something for the Commission at large to take a look at, because
there are timetables and time periods when we're responding.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And as I said -- I appreciate
that. As I said, you did a great job in terms of laying out the issue,
and I just wanted clarification from the County Attorney before we
move forward, because it's pretty clear we're going to move forward
in a direction that you don't want us to, but I think -- I think we're on
pretty good solid ground to do that.
And I wasn't indicating that I thought BluWater would file a
lawsuit because there's -- that would be a bit silly. And BluWater's a
great company, and I know that that wouldn't happen. And
hopefully we'll have an opportunity to work with BluWater going
forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've still got some commissioners.
Commissioner Kowal.
July 11, 2023
Page 68
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'd just like to go on record also
and say that, you know, the public comment, for whatever reason,
whatever they brought up -- and, you know, the protest was not
solely -- I did not base my decision on the way I looked at this.
It gave me the opportunity, then, to question our own staff
deeper. And even from this dais, I said -- I think I even quoted that
we own this. This was our fault that this happened this way, and we
have to rectify it, and that's when we moved forward, and I believe
the way we did and the way I worded the motion, I think -- and that's
why we voted the way we did.
It had -- you know, it's noted -- it had no basis to do with
anybody protesting this that swayed my decision to do what I did. It
was purely on the questioning of our own staff for probably a lot
longer than we thought we'd ever spend on that particular agenda
item that day. But, you know, to get to the facts -- and I think we
owe everybody that, you know, and I think we need to be fair and --
MR. DAVIDOW: Gotcha.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- you know, across the board
for everyone. So that's our, you know, due diligence to do that. So
that's the reason I did what I did. So just to go on record to make
sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What really generated the
discussion -- then I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel -- was one of the
vendors who didn't bid -- and, you know, I don't think you were
here --
MR. DAVIDOW: I was not.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- but one of the vendors that didn't
bid read an email to explain to us the feedback he got from the
July 11, 2023
Page 69
County. That's what brought everything to a screeching halt. He
wasn't protesting. He wasn't, you know -- and then there was a
couple of other vendors. But that email just, to me, was the smoking
gun.
I hate to say this but, you know what? You call it like it is
against the staff where we had conflicting, you know, feedback to
vendors who, you know, were making bids with integrity and with
the verbiage that they had, but it wasn't a fair and equitable, you
know, type thing.
And so that's when -- you know, in the end we want to do
completely the right thing and not sort of cut corners and go, well, we
made a mistake, but how can we salvage it, you know, and get sort of
the 70 percent solution? And none of us were happy with that. But
it was that email that went from the staff to one or two vendors that
showed us that, at the county level, we colored outside of the lines a
little bit.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I've got to say, I'm not
all that thrilled about going out and rebidding this. I learned today
that BluWater, after giving direction by this board to remove the
watercraft rental out of their contract, which was the gray area, the
subject matter for discussion -- when I voted for that, it was, ask
BluWater if they'll remove the watercraft rental out, and if they will,
we'll go forward with the deal that they presented with their proposal,
but -- and I didn't see -- and I didn't ask you yesterday. I apologize
for that. I just assumed that BluWater had rejected that request by
the Board, and that was why staff was coming forward with a rebid,
not a re-think of what was bid in the process.
So I'm -- I've got to say out loud, I'm not -- I'm not all that
thrilled about going back into a rebid process if BluWater did -- was
asked to remove the watercraft rentals out of their deal -- or out of
July 11, 2023
Page 70
their proposal, and I think we should honor that. Because I
expressed concerns about the playing field in the rebid process on a
closed bid -- on a closed-bid scenario.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And really -- Commissioner
Kowal's lit up. But, I mean, I have the same question. The way I
saw it was even after that meeting, I think quickly it was sort of
whispered to us that, oh, we think BluWater's going to be fine with
taking out the watercraft, and then, boom, we press forward.
But then I saw an email from BluWater that went to a whole
bunch of people, and maybe I read it too fast. It seemed to -- it was
after the fact, and it seemed to raise some concerns from BluWater
and then -- and maybe I draw a false conclusion. I thought -- and
now I'm hearing something different -- that BluWater sort of
rethought their concern, and it was like, now, wait a minute.
So let me -- let's hear from Commissioner Kowal, and then the
floor is going to be yours. Separate rumor from fact for us --
MS. PATTERSON: Of course.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- because that email we all
got -- none of us commented on it. I don't think any of us hit "replay
all" because we were just cc'ed. It was more to the staff.
But I remember that I sort of scanned it. It seemed like an
after-the-fact BluWater -- and they weren't saying no, but as I was
reading through the lines, it was like, hey, wait a minute. We sort of
have sort of circled our wagons, and we've got some concerns.
We're not saying a hard "yes" like we might have said a couple of
days ago.
And then I remember when I read that, I was like, all the right
people from the County staff are on it. None of us have to get into
this discussion. We'll just let it flow and then see what comes to the
July 11th, you know, county commissioner meeting, and now here
we are.
July 11, 2023
Page 71
So Commissioner Kowal and then, County Manager, the floor is
yours.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I also was referring to the email I read and the way I saw it.
And then I know that -- I don't really want to get in the weeds here
with this, but I think through talking to staff and the County Manager
yesterday in our meeting, that some other things came to light. And
I'm not saying one way or the other, but from what I
understand -- and, you know, I asked this question from the dais that
day was, you know, what retail experience does this individual have
from BluWater? Because I know initially that's not their business.
Their business was rental, just like the other people that, you know,
were here that day.
And it was told to the staff that they reassured that the husband
or ex-husband was going to -- who had this contract in the past was
going to participate in helping BluWater with that aspect of it. And I
don't know if this is true or not, but from staff, I believe a letter was
sent, and this was found after the fact, after researching this, coming
up to this conclusion today.
So I don't know if the County Manager can --
MS. PATTERSON: So going back to the watercraft; that was
the easy part of this conversation. When we left here, we all, I think,
felt okay about the direction and potentially BluWater's position on
removal of the watercraft. And while not ideal, it was a potential
solution.
Unfortunately, the series of events that unfolded over the next
week is what made us feel uncomfortable enough to say we need to
rebid this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did BluWater feel uncomfortable,
or their position was still the same? It was more of the County? I
think that's the --
July 11, 2023
Page 72
MS. PATTERSON: BluWater was agreeable to removing the
watercraft from their conversations with Procurement. They had not
actually executed yet. So, you know, it wasn't inked finally, but the
issue became, then, that there were questions about the percentage of
sales against a monthly. So how it was responded and bid and how
it was ultimately negotiated became a question.
And, still, did that mean that others might have proposed
differently, or would additional people have proposed if they
understood that there was options?
So that was problematic, as well as our own internal process,
excuse me, for negotiation at the table gave some concern to both
Procurement and then as those facts became available to us to the
County Manager's Office.
At that point, being faced with a situation with a percentage of
sale, which is not the easiest thing to administer or monitor, bringing
cash into the equation and all of that, as well as continued questions
arising, not in protest, but simply questions from people that were
involved in this process, it appeared that the process was
substantially -- I don't want to use the word "compromised," but
substantially murky; that a rebid was in the best interest of the
County, and that's simply how we arrived here.
We have learned we need to be very specific. We have learned
that we need to say exactly what it is we're looking for, and if there
are things that should not be included, like watercraft, we need to
specify that. We also need to specify the terms under which we're
looking for a contract and not allow for, well, if you come up with a
better idea, just throw it on the table, and we'll hit it at the negotiating
table.
It creates an inconsistency or the perception of unfairness that
we're -- that's not what we want. We want a level playing field and a
level of fairness to anybody that will respond to this type of proposal.
July 11, 2023
Page 73
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So was -- did BluWater
accept the arrangement that the Board had asked to remove the
watercraft rental out of the agreement and go forward? Yes or no?
MS. PATTERSON: I had an acknowledgment that they
received it. I do not know that they actually signed that agreement.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Signed or not, did they accept
that?
MS. PATTERSON: That is my understanding.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well -- because then
there's a perception of an agreement. And, again, we have the right
to cancel any contract. So then, as Commissioner Saunders adeptly
stated, you know, the exposure for the County is limited to the
timeline within which the perception is there for having an
agreement.
I like the discussions that we had yesterday. I wasn't happy
with the original proposal for offering the marinas for rent. I had
suggested that we divide them up and allow for individual operators
to take different facilities. I thought that was a better idea. I think
that the proposal that I heard yesterday with regard to the rebidding
process is a cleaner methodology because we're not into a percentage
of sales.
We do have an issue with cash sales and collections and
monitoring as to what our percentages of revenue typically should be
or could be. I like those processes, but on the same token, we
made -- I voted on making an arrangement with BluWater to deal
with the subsequent issues of actability and so on based upon their
proposal if they would remove the watercraft rental out.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood, sir. And I think, in good
faith, that's the way that we proceeded. And nobody anticipated the
continuing challenges that -- and I don't mean from outside, but even
July 11, 2023
Page 74
the internal challenges that have arisen. I think that when we left
here last -- two Tuesdays ago, the marching orders were clear: Work
with BluWater to deal with what we believed to be the primary issue.
Unfortunately, what unfolded was additional issues that were
equal in our concern and, therefore, to provide full transparency and
full visibility, we'll be offering a solicitation that doesn't -- because
we're not just putting the same solicitation out; therefore, everybody
knowing what everybody thought. You'll be -- we'll be offering it in
a different way and to address some of those concerns that were
raised by the Board and others to be sure that we have an absolutely
fair competition here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Shouldn't we, though,
have -- from a process standpoint, shouldn't we have canceled the
contract then, or did you feel you didn't need to do that because it
wasn't executed on the other side?
MS. PATTERSON: Correct. We worked this with
Procurement and with the County Attorney's Office so that we knew
what exactly we needed to bring to you in what order. That's why
we're here in the way that we are. So this is not -- we're not -- we
did work through this process and did advise BluWater as soon as we
came to that conclusion and had spoken with the County Attorney so
that they understood what our position was and where we were going.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When you said there was -- and
then I'll go to Commissioner Hall. When you said there were further
concerns after our last meeting here, did BluWater share those
concerns as well? Did they start to have concerns, or did they voice
anything where they thought the percentages and whatnot were in
question, or did they -- were they clean and said, we'll take out the
watercraft, and we'll press forward with what's on there? So they
had no -- when you keep saying, like, there were additional concerns,
July 11, 2023
Page 75
it was only with the County staff? BluWater didn't raise any kind of
concerns, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. Other people that had been
participating in this process, as was alluded to by the other Board
members --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. PATTERSON: -- had already provided, you know, some
commentary. But our concern with our internal process actually
probably floated to the top, is that, did we handle this in the best
way? Was it the cleanest? Were the negotiations exactly the
way -- did it provide that fair competition to everybody, or did we hit
the negotiating table with one idea that kind of migrated to another
idea? With all of that included, and the public input, it just
murkied -- murked -- what would I say? It made the process murky.
So we arrived here thinking that that is honestly the best way to
just start clean. And I know it's disappointing. We're disappointed,
too. Absolutely wish that this didn't come to this result, but, again,
just accepting it and moving forward with all of those outlying issues
does not seem to be the prudent process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
When I'm thinking about treating others like I want to be treated,
I concur with Commissioner McDaniel. When I voted to let
BluWater have the contract if they were willing to remove the
watercraft, that's what I meant, and I had peace about that.
Sure, the process was ambiguous. It wasn't our best, but I don't
think that we should try to correct that process at their expense. I
think we can learn from that and move forward, but I don't think that
we should do it at their expense because we have messed up, and it
was not because of a protest.
But when I left here the other day, at the last meeting, I was
July 11, 2023
Page 76
resolved that if they -- if they have a contract and they're willing to
forego the watercraft issue, I was good with it, and I'm going to stick
with it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And as far as -- as far
as the accountability goes with cash, just disallow cash transactions.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's that simple. It drives me
nuts. But I go to places all the time: "We don't accept cash."
Boom. Then we don't -- we don't have to -- we don't have to deal
with that ambiguity.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So -- and, you know, I know
we have had in our prior life where we have -- I'm pointing at the
Clerk while I'm pointing. I wasn't pointing at you. I was pointing
at the Clerk, Commissioner Kowal.
We had --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He likes to point.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He gets nervous when I point
at him.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Not really.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We have had issues over the
accountability with regard to cash in the past, and if that becomes an
issue going forward, we can adjust our contracts just to just eliminate
the cash transactions, especially when we're dealing with a portion of
our revenue being percentage sales. And there's -- and it's absolute,
all. I mean -- so that would be my -- that would be my
recommendation if we're going to go forward with that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm beginning to feel a little
bit like a flounder. I've been flip-flopping here as this debate has
July 11, 2023
Page 77
gone on, and Commissioner Hall has convinced me of the merits of
moving forward with BluWater; however, I guess I have a question
for BluWater, and I assume that this is the principal of BluWater?
MR. DAVIDOW: Ms. Winn, yes.
MS. WINN: How are you? Yes, I'm Kim Winn.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So are you
authorized to represent the company --
MS. WINN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- in terms of -- okay.
Staff has come up with what is a better plan in terms of the way
things are charged. I'm wondering -- and this is a question for the
County Manager and the County Attorney -- are we able to amend
that contract? Let's assume for a moment that we have a binding
contract that we could terminate right now if we wanted to -- we don't
want to do that -- can we amend that contract to provide the better
method of charging so that there's no confusion?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think the Board's choice at this point in
time is to accept the amended contract without the watercraft or to
put it back to bid.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well --
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't think you can --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let me just ask you the legal
question. Not what is the best procedure or anything, but just a legal
question.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't think you can -- see, I hate saying
that in case you do it anyway. But I'm suggesting you not do it that
way.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Well, I'm not asking
for your suggestion. I'm asking you a straight legal question.
MR. KLATZKOW: If you get challenged --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
July 11, 2023
Page 78
MR. KLATZKOW: If you get challenged, you will lose.
MR. DAVIDOW: I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, if we amend the
contract and they agree to it, I'm not sure who's going to challenge it,
but -- maybe one of the other bidders might, but I don't think that's
much of a risk.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What's the amendment you're
proposing?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Well, here's what
I'm trying to do. I mean, the County staff has decided that they want
to rebid this because there's a better way to make it clear what the
charges are and to avoid confusion. My question is, can we just go
ahead and amend what is now an existing contract with a vendor to
reflect that if the vendor is willing to do that? It's just a simple
question. Would you be willing to change this contract to reflect
some of those changes? Now, if the answer is no, that's fine, but --
MR. DAVIDOW: The answer for BluWater is yes. And if I
could be heard, I believe you have a vote before you, right, and you
have the power to amend what's before you. So from a procedural
standpoint, you can change what you're voting on, but that's just one
lawyer talking.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just add something here
that gives a little bit of a nuance to what everybody is saying here.
It's one thing if you amend the contract and say, I want watercraft all
in or I want watercraft all out. I think the things that we're talking
about -- you know, "amendments" is a really strong word. What I
see here are some nuances to finalize the contract. Like, if you say
no cash or cash, I don't think all of a sudden we get 10 protests from
people who didn't get the contract saying, oh, my God. I would have
said no cash.
MR. DAVIDOW: You can't.
July 11, 2023
Page 79
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I think these are nuances. And
it might be a hairsplitter, but Commissioner Saunders is right, you
know, that -- or I definitely agree that, you know, we're looking for,
you know, is this illegal, immoral, or unethical?
We're already a little bit out of our lane, you know, I will say,
and -- but I think, you know, these are very fine-tuned amendments.
It's more of like some small specifics to finalize the contract. But
any kind of major, major big pendulum swings, then I think it has to
be rebid. But if the County has got a couple of nuances and
BluWater agrees, you know -- I mean, I don't think this is the best
way, you know, to do a contract. We're trying to sit here and I'm not
saying salvage it, but trying to see if there is a sort of common
ground before we just go back to square zero.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And, Mr. Chairman, the
reason I was suggesting this approach is I agree with Commissioner
Hall. I like the comment we want to treat people the way we would
want to be treated. I think that should govern everything we do, with
certain exceptions perhaps.
But if we assume that we have this contract, and we have -- and
I don't know what all the details are and what can be changed -- and
we have a party that knows that we can terminate this contract
anytime we want, so that gives the other party a little bit of incentive
to modify the contract in a way that's reasonable for both parties, if
they're willing to do that, then I think we just approve this -- we ask
staff to meet with BluWater and make modifications. I know Amy's
giving me a look of some bit of distress, it looks like.
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. We're here because we knew that
there was a chance that you would feel comfortable moving forward
with BluWater. We're here to tell you our concerns and our
recommendation. If your recommendation or your direction is to
move forward with BluWater, that is absolutely what we're going to
July 11, 2023
Page 80
do.
I would -- the cash piece I agree with you. To say we're not
going to accept cash is a pretty simple issue. To wholly change what
has been negotiated and move back to a cost per month or a cost per
year away from a percentage of sales is a large departure from what
was negotiated, and so that -- those are the two things that were the
big issues.
One is the watercraft. We're settled on that. The second is, is
it better to solicit -- and the third, is it better to solicit this as a
percentage of sale or as a monthly or annual charge? And, lastly, is
it a one vendor or a multiple vendor, which is an issue you-all talked
about a fair amount --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Again, you're talking about a
legal question. If we have an existing contract that provides for a
percentage of sales and that contract has been in place for a while and
we decide that we want to amend that contract to provide a fixed fee,
my assumption is that we can do that without having to rebid an
existing contract.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We can.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I know Jeff's looking a
little distressed as well.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. What I'm saying is if you are
challenged, you can lose. But, again, who's going to challenge you?
I think --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, let me make a
suggestion, then.
There are -- and I haven't looked at the contract since it first
came up, so I don't even know the details, and I'm not 100 percent
sure what changes you would want. Why don't we have the staff
meet and come back right after lunch with proposed amendments to
an existing contract, fix this contract, and then move forward with it?
July 11, 2023
Page 81
I'd hate to see us enter into an agreement -- or proceed with an
agreement that we know is flawed when we have a party here that's
willing to, perhaps, consider fixing that agreement. That's -- that
would be my suggestion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, and then
I have some comments.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And maybe my suggestion's
a little simpler. We have a contract. We agreed to the terms of the
percentage of sales. And if we're going to amend the agreement at
all -- because, again, I personally like going to the fixed fee. I
personally wanted us to be able to open it up to other vendors, but I
made an agreement that if BluWater will accept the removal of the
watercraft rental, do the deal that we have. I hadn't really given
consideration to the accountability issue with regard to cash.
So my suggestion is go forward with BluWater, eliminate the
cash sales as a portion of that -- of the transaction, and be done. We
don't have to -- we don't have to -- I don't want to -- because if we
move into an amendment to a fixed fee like staff's recommending, we
go out for a rebid, it brings up a whole -- whole 'nother issue of, well,
I would have bid on it if that would have been the case. I'd rather
just go forward with BluWater, eliminate the watercraft and the cash
sales, and be done.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Learn from our mistakes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Here's the thing: The way
contracts work is once you put out the RFP, somebody bids on it, and
they get it, you can't -- the County can't figure out a better mousetrap
and then go, oh, but, comma.
So the County screwed this up, okay? We've got to eat the
spinach, okay? Learn from this, much like we learned on all these
after actions and everything that I said earlier. But if there's a big
muscle movement disconnect, then I think this goes out for rebid.
July 11, 2023
Page 82
And when you make -- when you make slight amendments, it's
usually well after the fact. BluWater's had the contract for a year.
We've discovered after 12 months of their performance that there's
two or three things that aren't working well, so we bring them back to
the table and go, you still have the contract, but do we both agree that
we want to make some amendments to A, B, C, D, and E? That
usually happens after the fact, and that is supported and legal. You
make adjustments to an existing contract based on historical data that
is not a positive experience for both parties, and then you agree, and
then you make those changes, and so we always have that
opportunity.
But I think, you know, it's great after the fact we came up with
10 smarter ways to build the mousetrap. Too late. You know, too
late. And so I say, in good faith, if BluWater removed the
watercraft, if they are amenable to some small little movements
but -- you know, small little tweaks like, hey, we both agree, the cash
thing should have been in there, but it doesn't really change the flavor
of the entire contract. But if there was anything that was a big,
major muscle movement, then agreeing to the contract with
BluWater, I think we would get pushback from some contractors.
And this may be not be the most advantageous contract for the
county, but I can tell you one thing with 100 percent certainty, it's
way better than the previous one we had. Way better.
And so, you know what? Eat the spinach. Go back -- and this
is a lesson learned for our County contractors. I think BluWater's
been patient, flexible, you know, and amenable to some
different -- different things, small movements. But, you know, I
think it's -- I echo the same thing, you know, if I was sitting here and
I was BluWater, I'd be like, wow, so then after you thought about it a
week, you came up with 10 other things that you want to do? It's too
late. It doesn't work that day.
July 11, 2023
Page 83
MS. PATTERSON: Sir, if I may clarify, the discussion about
what we would do differently is not the basis for the re-solicitation.
We're here to tell you that we are uncomfortable with the process as
it's transpired from the last Board meeting, through our work with
BluWater and information that's surfaced through that discussion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, we agree, but it's too late.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. So -- but don't -- but I don't
want it to be perceived out there that we're attempting to manipulate
this process because we thought of a better way to do it. Nothing
would please us more than to have a marina operator right now,
obviously, to serve our people. This was a messy process. It
was -- it was complicated and perhaps not our best work. That is our
reason for the recommendation to re-solicit.
We came here knowing that you may have looked at us and said,
no, we still are comfortable with BluWater and we're going to move
forward with that. So that's the bright line.
If we were going to re-solicit, then, of course, we would hope
that we would do a better job and not just put the same thing out to
expect a different outcome. So I just want to make sure that we
separate those two arguments, our rationale for re-solicitation and the
hypothetical what we would do if we had a brand-new opportunity.
Two different things.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, I think we made that
assessment.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I'm ready to make a
motion, if you want. Let's move this forward.
I'm going to make a motion to deny the staff's recommendation
to rescind the contract on 11D. Let's start the process. Because
we're here on 11D. Staff's recommendation is to rescind the
July 11, 2023
Page 84
contract, and I'm going to deny the recommendation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to second it.
And so to be clear, we're denying the re-solicitation, and then
we're going to probably have a --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm going to make a
second motion here as soon as you get done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: There you go. Okay. So we've
got a motion and a second to deny a rebid, a re-solicitation of the
contract. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So it passes 4-1.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going to make a motion
now to enter into an agreement with -- assuming BluWater is still
amicable to the request of the previous -- of our last meeting, and
that's to enter into the agreement as was bid and accepted minus the
watercraft rentals and cash sales.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I second it. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So that passes 4-1.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Next.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then --
July 11, 2023
Page 85
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's go to lunch.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And then, obviously, one
of the things that Commissioner McDaniel, I believe, said is at any
time -- nobody's signed anything. At any time during the
negotiations here you have a different thing, then you might come
back here and go, you know what? BluWater changed their mind, or
we talked about some other subtleties, and it fell out. But no big
muscle-movement changes --
MS. PATTERSON: Understand.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- is what I think we've all just
agreed to, correct?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep.
MR. DAVIDOW: Commission, thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
Okay. No, we're not going to lunch. 12:20 is lunch break.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I was joking.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. What's next?
Item #11A
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AS EX-OFFICIO THE
GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-
SEWER DISTRICT, AWARD INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO.
23-8116, “NORTH COUNTY WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY
(NCWRF) PRETREATMENT FACILITY" (PROJECT NUMBER
70149), TO POOLE & KENT COMPANY OF FLORIDA, IN THE
AMOUNT OF $55,660,000, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT AND APPROVE ALL
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS. (MATTHEW MCLEAN,
PUBLIC UTILITIES ENGINEERING AND PROJECT
MANAGEMENT DIVISION DIRECTOR) (THIS IS A
July 11, 2023
Page 86
COMPANION TO ITEM 11B) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - APPROVED 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, Item 11A and 11B are
companion items. Item 11A is a recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners, as ex-officio the governing board of the
Collier County Water/Sewer District, award Invitation to Bid
No. 23-8116, North County Water Reclamation Facility Pretreatment
Facility to Poole & Kent Company of Florida in the amount of
$55,660,000, authorize the Chairman to sign the attached agreement,
and approve all necessary budget amendments.
Mr. Matt McLean, Public Utilities Engineering and Project
Management division director, will present. I will read its
companion item, because we'll move straight to that.
Item #11B
RESOLUTION 2023-135: RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT (“DISTRICT”)
TO BORROW AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $50,000,000
UNDER THE FLORIDA LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE
COMMISSION’S POOLED COMMERCIAL PAPER LOAN
PROGRAM FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONSTRUCTING THE
NORTH COLLIER WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY
(NCWRF) PRETREATMENT FACILITY AND CONTINUATION
OF PUBLIC UTILITY RENEWAL (PUR) PROJECTS; THIS LOAN
IS SECURED BY A PLEDGE OF AND LIEN UPON THE
DESIGNATED REVENUES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE
TERMS OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT AND AS PROVIDED IN
THE RESOLUTION APPROVING SUCH LOAN; AUTHORIZE
July 11, 2023
Page 87
EXECUTION OF THE LOAN NOTE OR LOAN NOTES TO
EVIDENCE SUCH BORROWING; AUTHORIZE THE
EXECUTION AND DELIVERY OF OTHER SUCH DOCUMENTS
AS MAY BE NECESSARY TO EFFECT SUCH BORROWING;
AND AUTHORIZE ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS.
(MATTHEW MCLEAN, PUBLIC UTILITIES ENGINEERING
AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT DIVISION DIRECTOR) (THIS
IS A COMPANION TO ITEM 11A) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - ADOPTED 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Its companion item, 11B, is a
recommendation to approve a resolution authorizing the Collier
County Water/Sewer District to borrow an amount not to exceed
$50 million under the Florida Local Government Finance
Commission's Pooled Commercial Paper Loan Program for the
purpose of constructing the North Collier Water Reclamation Facility
Pretreatment Facility and continuation of public utility renewal
projects.
This loan is secured by a pledge of and lien upon the designated
revenues in accordance with the terms of the loan agreement and as
provided in the resolution approving such loan, authorize execution
of the loan note or loan notes to evidence such borrowing, authorize
the execution and delivery of other such documents as may be
necessary to affect such borrowing, and authorize all necessary
budget amendments.
Mr. McLean?
MR. McLEAN: Thank you, County Manager.
Matt McLean, your division director for Public Utilities.
I do have a short presentation that was included in the agenda
package for these two companion items. I'm happy to go through
July 11, 2023
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that, or if you wish to just ask direct questions, I'm happy to entertain
the questions now. Whatever's the pleasure of the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No. This is another one that's
like, you know -- got a lot of notes from the Clerk of Courts on this
one and a lot that I've written down here. I'd like to -- I'd like you to
go through this for the record, unless there's an objection. This one's
got a lot of sloppy moving parts that we're trying to correct, unless --
MR. McLEAN: We appreciate that opportunity.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Unless I'm wrong.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't concur with it being
sloppy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Muddled? I don't know.
What's the word? Maybe that's a bad word. It's not our best work.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There again, everybody's
entitled to their opinions as to how things, in fact, transpire. There is
a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on.
This is a direly needed facility for all of our utility recipients,
people who snatch the spigot and turn on their water and flush their
toilets. This facility -- we bought this piece of property when?
MR. McLEAN: This particular property was developed back in
the late '80s, early '90s.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And so -- I mean, for
us to be doing what we're doing here, this is -- this is basic
government things that needed to be done that have needed to be
done for quite some time. It's an integral part of all of our utility
recipients. It's dire that --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But would you agree, some lessons
learned here, at least? Maybe that's a better way. And there's
always lessons learned. So I'm not throwing rocks, but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, of course. No one goes
out on purpose. But, you know, nine times out of 10 we're
July 11, 2023
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out -- decisions are made, expenditures are made of the taxpayers'
money based upon whatever the particular priorities are of that time,
and then deferral of necessary capital improvements and maintenance
and so on is put out, is decided upon because of the priorities of that
particular time.
And this -- this particular borrowing is an integral part of what
local government is supposed to be doing. And so -- there again, I
mean, you -- there's a lot of different ways to go forward, and
certainly people have opinions with regard to how things go forward.
And is borrowing always the best? No. But when you make
decisions to not take care of what's necessary, that's the position that
you're put in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The thing that always just jumps
out to me is when costs change in a big, huge, you know, way. And,
granted, sometimes that's cost of materials. Hey, we had Hurricane
Ian. It's whatever. But there's a few times here where we accept
somebody's bid and then, you know, down the line after all the
people who didn't get the bid go away, then all of a sudden the person
that has the bid comes up with these, you know, very large increases.
And, you know, some of -- a little bit of that was buried in here.
But I think, for the record, you going through the presentation,
you know, might help us formulate better questions for you. I don't
think it's extensive.
MR. McLEAN: Be happy to. It's about eight, 10 minutes, so
we should be able to rip through it pretty quick.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. McLEAN: Again, Matt McLean, your division director
for Public Utilities.
We have before you here today two items. One is the award of
the construction contract for the North County Water Reclamation
Facility Pretreatment Construction Project, as well as the companion
July 11, 2023
Page 90
commercial paper loan financing resolution.
Just a quick overview for the public and for the commissioners,
a reminder of the physical location of our North County Water
Reclamation Facility. It is along Goodlette-Frank Road. It's within
the highlighted yellow area. This particular project for our
pretreatment facility will be located where the red star is on the aerial
on the left. There's a blowup of the construction plan on the right
that identifies that area showing new buildings, above and
underground infrastructure that will be associated with the project.
And why are we here? Here's a picture of the existing
pretreatment facility. We have significant degradation within that
facility. We have some single points of potential failure in that.
That particular structure has worked well for us over the years;
however, it's reached and far passed its shelf life now. It was
constructed in the early 1990s. There have been multiple repairs,
maintenance efforts, as well as upgrades over those last three decades
to this facility to continue to provide service 24 hours a day, seven
days a week, 365 days a year to our customers.
So this is a 3D rendering, if you will, of the -- or 2D, I guess you
would say, of a model outlet of the new pretreatment facility. Again,
our goals with these particular projects, in being consistent with the
strategic plan on investments and infrastructure as well as our asset
management, is to continue to provide the reliable, sustainable
regulatory-compliant projects now and into the future.
There have been, over the last 30 years, significant changes in
technology relative to pretreatment process, which we've been able to
capture within this redesign of the project and now the construction
recommended award before you today.
Several of those things allow us the ability to eliminate potential
single points of failures, provide additional operational flexibility and
engineering resiliency. From a reliability perspective, we are setting
July 11, 2023
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the stage for continued growth and increased capacity at our North
County Water Reclamation Facility. We are eliminating those single
points of failure, as I mentioned.
Within the project, we have multiple unit process bypass
features that have now been incorporated within the project, overall
providing us that class-one reliability that we strive for on our utility
projects.
From a treatment perspective, this particular project now is
going to include a two-stage screening process when the initial
wastewater comes into the plants. The current headworks facility
only has a single 6-millimeter screening process. This particular
project now has the ability for that initial
up-to-6-million -- 6-millimeter screening but also a secondary
screening process to take it down to a much finer -- down to up to 2
millimeters of screening with the initial flow of wastewater that
comes into the facility.
Other improvements in technology that are included in this
project is the grit removal. There's been some tremendous increases
in technology over the last 30 years relative to grit removal. We do
experience a lot of fine sugar sand that gets into our collections
system, particularly in this sector of our north -- of our north part of
the county.
The grit removal system that we have is going to increase the
overall efficiency to capture that right up front. What that means to
us later on down the line in our treatment process is, is that we have
much greater efficiency of the treatment as you go farther down the
line. That allows us to continue to be able to provide an increased
reliability overall within the system.
And another area that's extremely important to us that's included
in this project is the odor control. Our utility group strives for a
no-offsite-odor goal. This particular project, we challenged
July 11, 2023
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ourselves to do that. We have an increased amount of biotowers
with carbon polishing to, again, provide that class-one reliability to
be able to have sufficient biotowers to make sure that we're not
having any odors go off site.
This is an area within the county that has developed around a
plant. It happens all the time to us. We end up trying to site plants
in areas, but as development patterns start to grow, they kind of grow
around us. And this particular area has pretty much boxed us in
now, so it's very important for us to make sure that we have
significant odor control, and this particular project has included that.
We were here before you almost a year ago to the day where we
made a pivot on the project. It originally was a design-build
contract. There were several lessons learned, as mentioned, that we
came through that, and we presented last year.
At that time, we made the overall pivot with your support.
There was a declaration of an existence of a valid public emergency
to essentially retool and terminate the existing contract that we had
and move forward with more of a traditional design-bid-build
process. At that time, AECOM, the design engineer, was awarded
that design project.
Subsequent to that July Board meeting last summer, we did
issue a notice to proceed in August with AECOM.
At the initial design kickoff meeting with AECOM, County staff
was not happy with the presented project schedule by our design
engineer. They presented a project schedule that was going to take
over a year to complete. We felt like there was a better way that we
could challenge all of ourselves to fast track this particular redesign
project, knowing the importance of the Board's continued support of
the expedited public emergency declaration that was created there.
So we challenged ourselves at that time to effectively put all the
resources necessary, not only from our design professionals that
July 11, 2023
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brought in folks from all around the country, design technical experts
to the project team, as well as our own internal team, bringing
together several project managers, several division directors, all of
the operations appropriate staff members at the relevant plant, all
committing to making sure that we are going to make this thing
happen quicker than what we expected from a design schedule. That
goal, effectively, was to complete that redesign by the end of
February in 2023.
I'm happy to report that we were able to achieve that goal, and
that was certainly not by any means of myself here. That was the
dedication of all the County staff members affiliated with that
redesign effort, our design professional team, our procurement team,
our County Attorney's Office members helping to facilitate making
sure that we complete the design appropriately, efficiently, and were
able to put it out on the street.
Our procurement team worked very diligently with us from the
end of February, even leading into before the end of February to
make sure that we had all of the proper design documents, bid
specifications, bid packages, et cetera, to put the item out on the
street through BidSync, which occurred less than a week after we
provided them all the documentation.
So, again, I can't give enough kudos and thanks to the
procurement team for all their extra efforts in getting it to that point.
The initial project was put out to bid for the construction
contract before you today for 45 days. Throughout the course of that
initial 45-day review, we've received a tremendous amount of
feedback, clarification questions, expressed interest in the project.
That really got us excited and continues to get us excited about the
interest in the project.
With that, we ultimately answered over 100 clarification
questions relative to the project, and in doing so, we wanted to make
July 11, 2023
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sure that all the prospective bidders had ample time to make sure that
they were receiving all of the additional information from the County
and County staff, design engineers, project participants, et cetera, to
make sure that we are getting the best bid possible for the County on
the redesign.
The bid opening, ultimately, was on May 16th of this year, and
that's why we're here before you now today. We're happy to bring
before you the recommendation of the award to the low bidder, Poole
& Kent for $55,660,000 as presented in the agenda item before you,
as well as the companion item relative to the commercial paper loan
for borrowing up to $50 million as presented.
This particular project is a two-and-a-half year build. We
currently have the cash on hand to be able to finance at minimum up
to about half of the project. We're going to continue to look at
additional items as far as continued financing is concerned. The
commercial paper loan is solely to allow us the ability to encumber
the project and keep the project moving forward as swiftly and
efficiently as possible.
We do plan to continue to look at future fiscal year budgets and
either -- include additional funds directly associated with this project
in a cash form, like we have a designated item for Fiscal Year '24
right now, as well as in the future if there's a need to do any type of a
conversion to a long-term more of a bond financing at a fixed rate.
We're certainly going to continue to entertain looking at any potential
options of that matter.
And with that, I do have with me here today Joe Bellone, our
finance director of Public Utilities, as well as our project manager,
Wayne Karlovich, and we're here to answer any particular questions
that you may have. But we look forward to your continued support
and recommendation and hopeful approval of the two companion
items.
July 11, 2023
Page 95
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, Matt, nobody disputes the
importance of the project. What I've had in my notes from last week
when I first got this agenda is what concerns me -- and then I've got
Commissioner McDaniel lit up here -- is it always catches my eye
when I see budget adjustments, cost increases of such a significant
amount.
So my question to you is, is that because the scope of the project
changed or we learned some new things, or what I wrote down was,
was it due to improper planning, improper execution, or lack of
knowledge on our part?
MR. McLEAN: I would say that several things occurred in
order to increase the cost of the particular project. There were
definitely increased scope changes from the original design-build
concept. The original design-build concept ultimately came to play
of having an outside dumpster area where we were going to be
getting the grit as well as the removal of the fines and the large
particulate material when it first came through. That creates a
tremendous odor issue for us and a tremendous operational issue. So
that was a significant change in scope in the project.
We all know that the cost of construction has also increased over
time. So I can't say that it's any one particular thing. I would say
that it is a little bit of all of them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm ready to make a
motion unless there's any other questions. I'd like to make a motion
for approval of 11A and B --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- as presented.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion and a second.
Nobody else is lit up. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
July 11, 2023
Page 96
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. McLEAN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are we going to go to 11C next?
Have we got time? Yep.
Item #11C
RESOLUTION 2023-136: RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING
PROPOSED MILLAGE RATES AS THE MAXIMUM PROPERTY
TAX RATES TO BE LEVIED IN FY 2023/24 AND REAFFIRM
THE ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARING DATES IN SEPTEMBER
2023 FOR THE BUDGET APPROVAL PROCESS.
(CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON, OMB DIRECTOR) - MOTION TO
APPROVE AND SET THE MAXIMUM RATE AS PRESENTED
BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL - ADOPTED 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 11C. This is a
recommendation to adopt a resolution establishing proposed millage
rates as the maximum property tax rates to be levied in FY 2023/24
and reaffirm the advertised public hearing dates in September 2023
for the budget approval process.
Mr. Chris Johnson, your director of the Office of Management
and Budget, will present.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
July 11, 2023
Page 97
Good morning, I think, still, a couple minutes here,
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. For the record, Chris Johnson, your
director of Corporate, Financial, and Management Services.
We are here today as part of the formal truth in millage, or
TRIM, process defined by Chapter 200 of the Florida statutes to
adopt a resolution establishing the proposed millage rates as the
maximum property tax rates to be levied in FY'23/'24 and to reaffirm
the advertised public hearing dates in September for the budget
approval process.
The proposed resolution is included in your agenda packets on
Page 171. The proposed millage rates are included as Exhibit A in
the packet on Page 172.
I have prepared a short presentation if you'd like, or I can take
questions at this time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I knew Commissioner McDaniel.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You knew?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I knew. I could feel it. I
could feel it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't have any questions.
I'm -- I want to -- you know, I want to be very clear that this is the
meeting where we set the maximum millage rate, and that's all we're
doing today --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- is setting the maximum
millage rate. I wanted to be very clear that that's what we're doing
today. We're not -- we're not doing anything else.
So I'd like to make a motion to go ahead and set that at a rate
neutral that we have been at.
MR. JOHNSON: And you are correct, we'll have -- your
budget hearings in September will allow you to either maintain or
July 11, 2023
Page 98
lower said rates.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So my motion is, is that we
go as recommended setting the -- at a rate neutral.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know we have public comment
before we -- do you have somebody?
MR. MILLER: Brad Cornell, who you all know was here, had
an emergency, got called away. He just wanted me to say Audubon
supports the proposed millage rate, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. Let me add a little
bit to that, Troy, if I could, because I got the letter as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: He did indicate that -- and
said Conservation Collier is one of the most successful and popular
programs the County manages. Unlike most programs,
Conservation Collier has voted -- was voted by all Collier County
voters three times, all approving the .25 mill ad valorem tax for
buying and managing conservation lands in all parts of Collier
County.
So he just wanted to emphasize, I think, that he was supportive
of the millage rate as well as maintaining the Conservation Collier
program.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So just to be -- just so I'm clear,
we're not adopting any rates?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Nope.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We're just saying this is the ceiling
only?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And in the future we can't exceed
that, but we can always lower it? I'm good to go.
July 11, 2023
Page 99
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. Under
comment, I'll -- as soon as I -- do we have a second yet?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So we've got --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We've got a motion and a second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I do have a comment.
MR. JOHNSON: And if I may, Commissioners, before you
vote, Commissioner McDaniel, you had stated "at the millage neutral
rate." Some of our taxing districts are at different rates, so if we
could just say at -- if we could just amend the motion to be "as
presented in the resolution."
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As recommended. I'm fine
with that.
MR. JOHNSON: Perfect, perfect. And then if I could -- if I
could just, for the record, reiterate the public hearing dates for the
public just so they're aware.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. JOHNSON: The public hearing on the Collier County FY
'24 budget will be held on Thursday, September 7th, 2023, and
Thursday, September 21st, 2023, at 5:05 p.m., and that's right here on
the third floor of this building.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I'll second his motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
July 11, 2023
Page 100
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Any -- did you have a closing comment?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I had a comment, but you
didn't go for comments.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I didn't think it had to do
with that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It does. It did.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just to be clear, again, my
moving this agenda item forward doesn't have any indication as to
what our plans are through our summer months, what we're going to
be talking about with our budget, what we're going to be doing with
the individual rates and as we go forward. So just as a point of -- a
reiteration of what Commissioner Hall was asking. This is a part of
our process. We make the final decision, ultimately, at our last
meeting in September there for the budget.
MR. JOHNSON: Correct, correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Got it.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's next?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to 15.
This is staff and commission general communications.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
July 11, 2023
Page 101
MS. PATTERSON: Item 15A is public comments on general
topics not on the current or future agenda by individuals not already
heard during previous public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have no registered speakers at this time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, are you sure?
MR. MILLER: Yes. In fact, I went and checked with the only
member of the public here to make sure I wasn't missing anything
and, no, we're good.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sort of an inside joke but kind of
not really. I just wanted to get your attention.
MR. MILLER: By the way, it was one speaker on that item last
time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think Ms. Kinzel wants to
approach the podium. Ma'am.
MS. KINZEL: Thank you, Commissioner, for recognizing me.
I failed to submit a slip, but thank you.
I just wanted to make comment to an individual that made some
derogatory comments about our office, or me personally, previously.
So I want to put on the record for the taxpayers that we follow
the law. We record documents, and we respond to information
accordingly the law, and we'll continue to do that.
There are some specifics related to his court case previously.
Those, as he indicated, were dismissed, and we'll -- I've offered to
meet with him directly and address his concerns. And I wanted you
to be aware that's always our position. I'll meet with individuals and
directly address the issues.
So thank you for the opportunity just to put that on the record.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you. Okay.
Item #15C
July 11, 2023
Page 102
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 15C, staff and commission general communications.
Mr. Finn, anything?
MR. FINN: No, ma'am, other than, perhaps, a discussion on
our overall capital workload.
It's probably an item that needs to be discussed at some point in
the near future with the Board. We have several projects that need
some evaluation of the direction the Board wants to take with those,
and I just offer that as a comment at this point.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, can I
comment on that comment?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely, yes, sir, commenting
on the comment.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was going to comment on
the regular time. But I had gotten from Mr. Finn kind of a list of
projects and plans going forward. The list that I have excludes
roads, stormwater, beach renourishment, and water and sewer, but the
list I do have totals just north of $401 million of projects that are sort
of in the works. Prior boards have approved some of these things.
And, again, this excludes the most expensive items, which are roads,
stormwater, beach renourishment, and water and sewer. So if you
add all that in, we're really talking north of a billion dollars in
projects. But I'm kind of focusing on this $401 million list.
I think we need to have, as part of our budget process -- and I
would suggest doing this in the fall. It was kind of a strategic
planning session to go through a lot of these things and determine
whether we want to really build some of the stuff we're talking about.
I'm going to give you a couple of examples. The Paradise
Coast park is something that I think we've all been able to witness,
July 11, 2023
Page 103
and we know that it's moving along nicely, but there's another phase
that has 11 more fields in it, and I'm not so sure that we need 11 more
fields. And I think we need to have that conversation with our
management team and with staff.
The Big Corkscrew Park, the regional park, I don't know when
this became part of the plan, but there's a lake out there. It's a
shallow lake. And the plan that was approved at some point in time
in the distant history was to fill in the lake or a portion of the lake to
make ball fields. Well, that's extremely expensive. There's no point
in filling in a lake to -- even though it's a shallow lake, to build ball
fields.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I've been arguing that
for -- forgive me for interrupting, Commissioner Saunders. I'll play
on that after you're done.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. And so there's a
whole lot of things on here that I think we really just need to spend
some time, and I think it's the kind of thing that we need to really
schedule a whole morning. I would suggest doing it sometime in the
fall after staff's had some time to kind of go through the list and see
what is really a priority and what really isn't, and then we can give
staff some direction.
So just a suggestion to schedule that sometime in the fall as part
of Mr. Finn's comments.
MS. PATTERSON: We can look for some dates and schedule
that time. We have usually one meeting -- one Tuesday a month
reserved for workshops. We could use a morning to do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I comment on a
comment?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Comments.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead. Commissioner
July 11, 2023
Page 104
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Number one. And
you -- you're spot on. I've been arguing with staff with regard to that
lake. We called it Big Jim's Bass Lake, by the way. And I've been
arguing with staff since day one. For those of you who don't know, I
used to dig holes for a living, and there's no economy in backfilling a
lake that's already dug, especially to build ball fields.
So there is an economy in excavating that lake because there's
good rock in there, by the way, that can be utilized for County
projects and so on and so forth and making it a recreational facility.
And there is other property that's in close proximity for the
construction of those baseball fields, just for your mind.
My question -- and this is -- one of the -- one of the discussions
that I've had with our senior staff was maybe we ought to have some
of these discussions in our extra three meetings this summer.
Conduct our business in the morning to take care of the affairs of our
government and then individually bring some of these projects back
while we're in an open stenographied meeting to have discussions
and discuss the potential of some of these capital projects and
maintenance and so on and so forth throughout the -- throughout the
summer as opposed to a workshop setting where we get edified, but
we technically, other than head nods, can't vote on anything.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We're looking at -- so you had
given us some -- you-all had given us some homework assignments
relative to the budget, which we're working on, to do with our
unfunded requests list as well as some variations from guidance, so
gathering all of that information. I know I talked to some of you
also about -- which plays nicely into this, is some summer work on
the AUIR process which helps establish some of these needs.
So through that, we can look at some of these projects as well.
And then if we still -- a planning workshop in the fall still might play
July 11, 2023
Page 105
nicely into that as well because I think the planning process is one
that is sometimes difficult to understand, and how we find ourselves
building a road or a park isn't that we woke up yesterday and just
decided to build one, that there's years of planning that goes into that.
So that's probably a good piece for the public, moving into the AUIR
in the later part of the fall. So all of that should time nicely together.
So we will be putting our thoughts together on how to bring
those, probably using the two August meetings, only because I
believe the next meeting probably is going to be pretty full with
potentially public comment as well as some other -- some other items
that may take up time. But if we have a little bit of time, of course,
we can be prepared for that discussion as well.
That's all we have. Thank you.
County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, do you have
any comments?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Just, you know, we always talk
about, you know, we learn from our mistakes. And we sit up here
and say, you know, that wasn't a great idea, and we somehow
financially lose or gain or put a burden on the taxpayers because
something was done or wasn't done right the first time.
And I think we had the opportunity to take a second bite at the
apple today on a particular item. And I'm not going to -- the
BluWater item. And, you know, I got outvoted on it, but time will
tell, and we'll sit back and see if we revisit it again.
But I respect your guys' opinion on it, and -- but I personally
felt -- I think we had an opportunity to do what was right again,
because I think it was our position that failed the first time, and I
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think it -- you know, we owe that to the citizens and the people that
may have had the opportunity to bid on this that, you know -- because
I remember distinctly that we were very, very adamant that this was
supposed to be a retail operation, and that was what we wanted, the
best of the best to operate these facilities to provide that service to
our citizens and not so much having rental and other items that were,
you know, brought up after the fact, and I think we all agreed on that
when we left the meeting that day.
And I think when we got the opportunity to take a second bite at
the apple, we probably realized that we were not giving the best
service to the citizens in that contract. So we are -- we'll -- I'll to
leave it at that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
I'm going to comment on that comment as well. I think we
have an opportunity to fix that contract. I know we've talked a little
bit about that as the folks were here.
We want to do the work. They know they've got a contract that
is flawed in some ways, at least in our opinion. And so I
would -- that's what I was trying to accomplish this morning was let's
go ahead and fix this. We can treat people the way we want to be
treated ourselves, as Commissioner Hall had said, but at the same
time, they seem to be willing to make changes.
And so I would ask staff to -- let's fix this contract so that
whether we made a mistake in terms of moving forward with the
existing agreement, at least we can fix that if there's some problems
with that.
One of the things I think we need to talk a little bit about is the
issue of controversial items in the summertime. I know we
were -- that issue was raised a little bit when we were talking about
the constitutional county proposal, the sanctuary county ordinance.
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My understanding is that's coming up in two weeks. And I guess I'll
just raise the question: Do we want to be hearing controversial
issues when a lot of our residents are no longer here or are on
vacation? And I'll just pose that as a question to the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to go with
everybody's closing comments, and they can comment on it then and,
obviously, could reattack on a comment. But, Commissioner Hall,
any closing comments.
COMMISSIONER HALL: You know, as far as that Bill of
Rights ordinance, I am going to bring it up. And I don't know -- do
we need to direct it to be advertised?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. You've asked me to advertise it, and
it's being advertised. It's your item.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So that's coming up.
And as far as the controversial time of the summer, we're going
to work through the summer, and I want to work. I don't want to
play what's -- you know, I don't want to play babysitter to the agenda
items. People have every opportunity to send us emails, to call us, to
write us, to Zoom in. I mean, just because they're not here -- and
there's going to be other items that I'm going to be on the other side
of that those -- that my people are still going to have the same
opportunity.
And so this whole thing is brought up -- you know, we heard
comments today that we're looking to cherry-pick federal law, that
we're looking to secede from the union, that we're looking to nullify
federal law that we don't -- that's so much baloney. I don't know
where all that started, but it's out there.
I just want to publicly put an end to all of that, because this is an
ordinance -- a sanctuary for the Bill of Rights. A sanctuary is just a
safe place. So I'm bringing this up because in case things ever twist
off in Washington, D.C., in case things ever twist off, God forbid, in
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Tallahassee, we're going to have a sheriff that's going to back and
honor the Bill of Rights that were given to us in the Constitution of
the United States of America.
We're going to have the right to bear arms. We're going to have
the right for due process of law. We don't have to take soldiers and
put them in our house. Every one of those Bill of Rights.
The one gentleman said, well, what about the 11th through the
27th? We're not nullifying those. We just want to make it a safe
place here. We're not looking to do anything other than live life
happily ever after. But in case anything ever happens, I would like
to have an ordinance that the Sheriff has the authority to enforce. So
with that, I want to bring that forth on July the 25th.
And I'm sure we're going to hear a million comments about it,
but I think it's -- you know, when I ran for this office, I ran to protect
and secure the rights of the people, and we're not looking to do
anything other than to do that. We want to -- we want to enhance
your rights and protect them even more than what you feel like you're
already protected.
So I just wanted to say that publicly because there's going to be
those out there. I'm sure I'm going to get the emails. But flame suit
on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. A comment on the
comments on the comments. Hopefully to make you feel a minute
better, I don't disagree with you with regard to the marina agreement.
I think it could have been done better, but I also was, you know,
wanting to do what I felt in my mind had, in fact, happened.
I think for solace for all of us, staff's going to be watching all of
our contracts, all of our agreements on a lot closer basis so that we
are made aware of discrepancies or things that could be done
differently, even to the tune of canceling a contract if the vendor's not
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doing what they're supposed to be doing, and doing it on a lot quicker
basis.
So could that -- could that agreement on our marinas have been
done differently? Absolutely. I've expressed that multiple times,
so -- but putting that also in my mind is putting all vendors on notice
that transact business with us that we're -- our staff, our government,
is going to be looking harder and closer at those contractual
arrangements going forward.
So -- and I support Commissioner Hall's efforts with regard to
the sanctuary -- the Bill of Rights Sanctuary. I -- specifically, when
I made the motion to adjust our schedule, that we would withhold
contentious land-use items, not all contentious items. I wanted to be
careful that a developer didn't come in and try to jam something in
next to a neighborhood where a large portion of those people were
not here.
I really think that times have changed sufficiently substantively;
that everyone has an opportunity to speak. And I know
myself -- and I think you share the same opinion, Commissioner
Saunders, that whether they're here at the podium or sending me an
email or -- now, the people that hit that repeat button and send a
thousand emails that somebody else has written, those people maybe
get discounted a little bit, other than the fact that they're in one
column or the other.
But with the technology that we have -- except for Troy making
errors. With the technology that we have, everybody has an
opportunity to speak. So I don't think holding off on -- if
Commissioner Hall wants to bring that item forward, I don't think
that -- people have an opportunity to speak. The folks were allowed
to speak today even though it was off agenda with regard to what our
processes are, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, it looks like
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you've got a reattack.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. I did have just one thing I
wanted to change on that, Jeff. There's Item 3A2 that's the sentence
that's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not today.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not today? Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I didn't know if he needed to
advertise that or not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. Advertise it as --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Never mind.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Advertised it as it's
advertised.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have nothing further, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a list here, okay.
I want to make a comment on the contracts, okay. Agree with
everything everybody said here. Here's why I voted the way I did,
and this affects mostly my marinas, so trust me, I'm getting plenty of
emails, and they're not robo emails. They're emails people actually
wrote, long ones.
But we can't have a double standard, and I'll give you an
example here. If a contractor makes a bid and they do something
wrong on the bid and it discounts them, then we say, oh, too bad, you
know, you didn't read the fine print, so you're out the door. We
messed up on this one, you know, I mean -- and so we've got
to -- like I said, got to eat the spinach.
So we put something out; we've got to stand by it. And the
only thing I would add is nothing's been signed yet. So if you come
back to us and say, wow, you know, the BluWater people sort of
rethought it and, you know, there's two or three big pendulum
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swings, not just small, little adjustments, then we might have to be
back to square zero, and we might rebid it. And at any given time,
you know, that could happen.
But, you know, I look at it this way, as, you know, we could
have done some things a little bit different. We shouldn't excuse
ourselves and go, oh, we want to do a redo. We don't give a lot of
other people redos that are outside of this, and so, you know, we have
to follow the same standard when it comes to contracts.
On the summer votes, I also agree that, you know, people use
technology to send us, you know, 300 emails that one person wrote
and talk about how they're using technology with robo emails, and
that's great. But I look at all those emails, and I look at it as one
petition. It's not -- it's not a personal email to me giving me your
views. It's a petition. And that has merit, great. So the 67 emails
that I got are all 67 people thinking the same four sentences.
But it gets me back to my summer votes. People can email,
they can call, and they can Zoom, but the one thing I also want to add
is at any given time, if we're having a discussion here and any
commissioner in the summer thinks, you know what? This is bigger
than a breadbox, okay. I don't know that we've heard from
everybody. I would have expected more input. I'm not comfortable
making a decision, we could always -- and we do it all the time. We
say, you know what? Let's have this, you know, slide back to
September or October because I don't feel like we have all the
moving parts. So we always have that.
And I think if it's something that we see on the agenda that we
know is huge, like a big land issue or something, we're going to push
it. But if it's something that's a little bit gray -- and then we all see
the agenda ahead of time. If at any given time you as a
commissioner think, you know what? I think this is premature, I
don't think it's going to be met, I think we would all support that.
July 11, 2023
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So just -- you know, we'll keep that, and we'll -- you know,
we're -- this is a little bit of an experiment, but I think, you know, we
always have -- we always have an out. We always have an out to
continue an item.
Just on the Bill of Rights, correct me if I'm wrong, County
Attorney, two years ago we approved the resolution but not the
ordinance, correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. And the resolution
was -- it was different wording, right? So, I mean, I'll paraphrase
here. The resolution was a little bit more generic. Ordinance
was -- had some specificity to it, or -- what's the best way that you
can sort of remind us? And I would tell all five commissioners if
this is coming back to us in two weeks, especially those that weren't
here two years ago, dig up the history a little bit and some documents
did go out that help us.
But what could you say is the best way to -- because I remember
I asked you this question two years ago, and I said, what's the
difference between the resolution and the ordinance? And, you
know, you very eloquently and succinctly described that, so...
MR. KLATZKOW: The resolution and the ordinance are
substantially similar. The resolution has no binding effect in that
you can't violate a resolution. A violation of an ordinance has
penalties associated with it. A resolution is simply the Board telling
the public this is what we feel on a particular item in setting forth
your position. An ordinance has a force of law.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But if I did remember correctly,
the resolution was something that a different commissioner, who's
not here, put together sort of in the middle of the meeting, brought it
at the end, right? Wasn't -- am I remembering that correctly?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
July 11, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No? Okay. Well, we'll table this
until -- this will be the discussion.
MR. KLATZKOW: It will be in the backup to the next agenda
item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And then just before I get
off of that topic, you know, just for the record and whatever citizens
might be watching, I was really encouraged by a lot of the emails that
I got for people on both sides of the Bill of Rights issue, and I was
really disappointed by some.
I replied to every single person, even the robo emails. And
some people really appreciated, although I did call it out. You
know, I called -- you know, I called -- you know, if it looks like a
duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's a duck.
So in my opening comment when I said, you know, I got
your -- you know, your cut-and-paste, you know, identical email, I
appreciate your comments. And, you know, I tried to be honest.
Some people actually sent me a really nice thank you note and said,
wow, I never really ever heard back from an elected official. Other
people said, oh, you know, you're being so condescending and this
and that.
And so, you know, I was disappointed and impressed. But, you
know, I stand by everything that I said in case anybody is listening.
But, you know, as I told a senior leader who -- in the community
who represented that sort of identical robo email test, I said, you
know, I'm just trying to help out here. That doesn't -- and I've said
this here before. It doesn't do what you think it does. So I can tell
you, I think when anybody gets that email, they might read the first
one, and then when they see all those subjects are exactly the same,
they know what it says, I'm not sure they read every single one to just
see who the person was who said it.
So it's really more of a petition and not -- and what I appreciate
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more is when citizens send us personal emails with their own views,
and sometimes even 10 people who support something or are
opposed something, their emails are -- say 10 different things. And
so it does help a bit more. I'd rather get 10 of those emails than 100
robo emails. So I'll just let that sit out there.
A couple things just for the County Manager that I just -- as a
reminder to make sure that they're coming back on an agenda sooner
than later, and these are just things -- these are more bullet things.
Conservation Collier lots. Remember, we've talked about it.
There's one particular one that we voted down for the cost of it. It
was on Marco. And some new things have come to light by the
person who's trying to sell it. And the Marco City Council actually
wanted to add some money to the pot. I'll just leave it like that.
Let's not let that one die on the vine.
And as I've said before, it's great if those Conservation Collier
lots are grouped a bit, but we can also walk and chew gum at the
same time. So if there's one that's a done deal, it's been appraised,
the person has agreed -- what's that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Neither one of us can walk
and chew gum at the same time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's true. I wasn't talking about
you guys. So I've got three votes here. I can count on three fingers,
so I know I can get everything passed with these three experts here,
and we discount you guys. No, I'm just kidding, but you know what
I'm saying.
So the Conservation Collier lots, the unfunded list, sort of
touched on it here. You know, that was a list that we were all, like,
hey, every single thing on there is pretty darn important. If we need
to cherry-pick a few things off or -- you know, that could be on the
agenda at any particular time.
You know, I worked with the County Attorney on an ordinance
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on fines and liens and tightening up that process. So it's not for the
next meeting, but just as a reminder, one of the things that I think we
all were looking for is, you know, after a few months passed, a little
bit of a report card, you know. Did -- you know, we collected
90 percent of what we had, and in the past we collected 2 percent,
you know. Some sort of report card on did that stronger document
really do anything different.
I wrote down here Paradise Coast Sports Complex. A lot of big
events, the fireworks, which, you know, that's not a moneymaker or
anything, but it kind of was. You know, they have food operations
there, food trucks.
And I mentioned to the staff out there when I went for the Top
Gun Football event, to not miss the opportunity to come to the
podium here at some point in the future and not just give us a
rundown of events that are happening in the next three or four
months, but a report card of not only the events we had and the
lessons learned and everything, but the finances. You know, did we
break even? Did we make money? Did we lose a ton of money?
You know, we're trying to run that sports complex like a business.
And not that it has to be a cash cow, but I think all of us would like to
get feedback after the event.
Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We do that at the TDC.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That is a -- there is a --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So then you, as the TDC, can you
report to us?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Would you like me to do
that?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I can bring that.
July 11, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd be happy to, or we can
bring staff in to do it, whichever you would prefer. I can give you a
brief excerpt, but they give a --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I think anything that
maybe comes out of that. You know, if you're a TDC representative
and that's something that they do a deep dive, maybe give us the short
version like, hey, you know, it's -- we're -- we were a C plus but now
we're a B minus, you know, I mean -- but we're moving in the right
direction.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's more detailed than that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, but something like that, that
would just --
And then, lastly, I just wanted you to know that -- remember
when we passed the panhandling ordinance and we sort of tightened
that up? And even during the budget meeting I asked Sheriff
Rambosk, and he said, oh, thank you. You know, it doesn't fill every
hole, but it has helped us greatly.
There's still a loophole, and I'm going to work with the County
Attorney on this. So I have what we passed here, and here's the
loophole that is being utilized in key areas of our district where we're
still having significant people panhandling in very visible and unsafe
areas. And the loophole is that one of the sentences says that they
can't panhandle; can't. And it doesn't use the word "panhandle."
You know, it's more of safety and things like that, but it does fall
under that umbrella. But they can't be on a median that's six feet
wide or more narrow. Six feet or less.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So that sounds great, but the places
where the medians are more than six feet are the busiest, unsafe
areas. And I'll give you an example. So the biggest issue where
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I've got panhandlers in my district is U.S. 41 and Collier Boulevard.
That median is about 12 to 16 feet wide.
So this ordinance allows them to stand there because they're on a
wide piece of grass and they're not sort of in between cars. The
negative is they've got three lanes on one side, three lanes on another,
the light turns red, they run out in between the cars to get their 5, $2,
$10, whatever, the light turns green, and they're dodging cars.
So the wider median attracts the panhandlers, but it puts them in
an area where traffic is significantly unsafe. A tiny little median
somewhere that's on a corner where there's traffic -- so to me it's
almost like this thing's reversed. It should be the bigger medians we
should stay away from.
Now, one of the things that -- and I'll talk with the County
Attorney. And I don't even need you to say anything, Mr. Klatzkow,
because there are some state things and some constitutional things
that went into this.
But I think there's a couple of paragraphs below what we passed
that actually supersede the wideness of the medians. And I'll just
give you a summary. After it talks about the wideness of the
medians and what you would think would allow a panhandler to be in
a super-wide median legally, you go down a couple of paragraphs,
and then it says a person shouldn't willfully obstruct traffic and
impede safety, blah, blah, this or that, and it doesn't talk about any of
the widenesses or the distances or whatnot.
So to me, I go, you know, medians notwithstanding, you know,
we've got people in some very busy intersections, some very busy
exits that, you know -- and I'll get a legal read.
I also talked with Colonel Bloom this morning. But this will be
one that I'll -- after I flesh it all out, if I think there's a possibility to
tighten this even more or put just better clarification and still keep us
in the legal lane, this will be one that I'm going to take a look at.
July 11, 2023
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So, you know, I was just sort of looking. We've
got -- Commissioner Saunders is working noise, Commissioner
Kowal's got his hands full right now with Riviera Golf Estates;
Commissioner Hall's bringing back the Bill of Rights, which is a
deep dive; I'm working on the panhandle -- panhandler issue; and
really the only one not doing anything is Commissioner McDaniel.
So please get that for the record. He did dig some holes, though, he
told us. He's dug some holes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you remember that I do
do that for a living.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know you do.
Have I got any other reattacks? I've got Commissioner
Saunders, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
I'm going to, I guess, make this a little bit personal and ask
Commissioner Hall whether he'd be willing to put this constitutional
county ordinance off until the second meeting in August. There's no
real emergency. Congress is on vacation, I think, most of August, so
we don't have to worry too much about that.
I cannot make the next two meetings. I would like to
participate in that discussion. I think the issue will pass, but I would
like to participate, but I cannot make the next two meetings.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: In person or you won't be even
Zoomed in?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I won't be able to participate
at all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And so the request would be
just a personal request. I understand if you can't do it. That's -- I
understand that, you know, you've got folks that are lined up for the
second meeting in July. But if that could be put off till the second
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meeting in August, I would appreciate that, and that's just a personal
request. Again, I understand completely if you can't.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, I appreciate the ask. I do -- I
have people lined -- I've got the ball in motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I will -- I mean, if we're just
having open discussion, we talked about big contentious issues that
we might float to the fall, or we could still hear it in the summer, but
if we start to feel uncomfortable that we don't have everything, you
know, we can always make a motion to sort of slide it.
On any issue that I think is big and contentious, me, personally,
I would like all five commissioners to be here. And so I'm not
saying that you change the date or anything. We can -- if it's on the
next agenda and we have a discussion -- but I can tell you it is going
to be big and contentious, and even though I voted for it last time,
just like Commissioner McDaniel -- but like I told citizens who sent
me a note, every vote's different, okay. So I voted for it, it failed,
okay, great. I support -- just like Commissioner Kowal just said,
hey, I was on the failing end of it, but that's how government works.
End of discussion.
But it's not end of discussion now. It's coming back. So
citizens have a chance now to give us new information or convince
me that I was wrong or what have you. But I feel really strong that
for anything that is big and contentious that has people on both sides,
all five commissioners being here is a big deal.
Commissioner Saunders -- or if it was Commissioner Hall and it
was an issue, you're here representing a lot of constituents and the
feedback you've gotten, as well as your own personal opinion. So it
doesn't mean we can't hear it, but just -- that's the first I heard that
you wouldn't be here for two meetings. I think that's huge, but it's
certainly within, you know, your right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I should have said that
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sooner. But, quite frankly, I was a little bit surprised that we were
going to be hearing it the second week in July. I didn't know that
until yesterday.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, we'll see. I mean,
you know, the ball's in Commissioner Hall's court. We all have
equal positions here. So, you know -- no, and you don't have to
make -- you don't have to tell us today. You know, you chew on
that. If we see it on the agenda, we see it. It doesn't mean we can't
hear it. But there again, just like if we were voting on a big
construction project, if one of the commissioners wasn't here and one
of us started to feel uneasy that we weren't getting the full input of all
five districts or we were missing something, we could always say,
this has been valuable information, but I'm not prepared to vote on
it -- and I'm not saying in this particular case. I'm just talking more
generically -- I would have a hard time voting on anything that was
major without all five commissioners being here.
I actually think -- when I had an emergency in the family with
my mom, you guys remember, I missed a meeting, and I think you
guys floated -- you moved something because somebody made the
motion that they would -- it would be more advantageous if I was
here. And I remember, I couldn't even Zoom in because I was with
my mom with a medical issue. So, you know, I think it's a valid
point.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm going to go along
with what you were saying.
My question is, from an advertising standpoint, if Commissioner
Hall chose to acquiesce to Commissioner Saunders' statement about
not being here on the 25th, does it -- does it pose a problem from an
advertising standpoint?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. We'll pull the ad and then put it back
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in for whatever meeting you guys want to hear this on. So that's not
an issue.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or you could -- or we could hear
the issue but then choose not to -- and I'm just talking hypothetically.
MR. KLATZKOW: You're going to have five hours -- you're
going to have five hours of public comment. I don't know how
many times you want to go through that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Well, I know.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the thing that -- you
know -- and I don't know -- I don't -- I didn't know that
Commissioner Saunders was not going to be able to be here, so --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I didn't either.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- and that's not an
unreasonable request. So I'd be okay with hearing it in August. But
if you've got the ball rolling, then we'll stay on and go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We used to -- or still do.
But in the Senate, every now and then a senator would rise for a point
of personal interest, and the Senate President would tell all the
senators to take their seats and for everybody to be quiet.
And if the senators weren't in their seats, they would announce it
so all the senators would be in the room and in their seats. They
called it a point of personal privilege.
And we don't -- we don't do that here, but I mean, that's kind of
what I'm asking for is a point of personal privilege to consider putting
this at a time when I know I can be here.
Commissioner Hall, you've said you want to -- you want to treat
people the way you want to be treated.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I kind of feel the same
July 11, 2023
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way. I agreed with you on that. I changed my position on that
ordinance -- or that contract based on that comment.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm not opposed --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I know there are going
to be circumstances where some of us just can't be in attendance.
And I really would like to be here for that. But, again, I understand
if it can't be changed, but that's my point.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It can be changed. You know,
nothing's -- I've got things in motion that I can postpone and get them
here in August.
So with that, I'm -- I would rather you be here. I just didn't
know that you weren't going to be here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I appreciate that. And we'll
all have these kind of circumstances that will come up, and
it's -- we're working as a solid group. We have differences of
opinion, but the great thing is that we are working as a group and
working in the best interest of our citizens, and I appreciate your
courtesy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think also, too, like we talked
about with contracts, we don't want to open ourselves up to
something that could be a controversial decision. So regardless of
how that vote or any vote went, if we made a vote on something that
was pretty big with a commissioner missing, the people that
disagreed with our vote then all of a sudden would throw back in our
face, wow, you know, he could have been the deciding vote, or he
could have asked the best question. He could have, you know,
interrogated somebody at the podium that was not making sense.
So, you know, I think that's also part of it as well.
I don't know how this one goes. I know how the last one went,
but I want a decision that's five voices on anything that's bigger than
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just, you know, paying a bill or changing, you know, a contract a
little bit or something like that, so -- but it sounds like Commissioner
Hall's going to take another bite of the apple. Who said that?
COMMISSIONER HALL: We're going to take another bite of
the apple and move it to August the 22nd meeting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Bite of the apple. The juice is
definitely worth the squeeze. That's mine. Stop stealing it.
Okay. Any other comments?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We're going to measure
twice and cut once.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Cut once. No, that one's mine,
too. That one's mine, too.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: August the 22nd is the
second meeting in August for --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: August 22nd.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the Bill of Rights.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then, you know what? That
gives both sides more preparation time as well, because I want to
hear from both sides equally, even though some people thought I
didn't.
Okay. Any other comments? County Manager?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner, I just wanted to recognize
we had four interns in the room. I believe there's only the two left,
but I want to thank them for being here and observing the public
process.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Congratulations for maintaining.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Now, wait a second. You
don't just get off by just sitting there and watching us do all the hard
work. Come to the podium. Tell us where you go to school,
what -- a little bit about yourselves and where you've been working,
and if you've learned anything. This is part of the intern process.
July 11, 2023
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You don't get just to be spectators. So who are you, what do you do,
and where are you working?
MR. TOTH: What do you mean? We're engineer interns.
We don't have to do public speaking, right?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, no. This is part of it.
MR. TOTH: My name's Ryan Toth, born and raised in Collier
County, but right now I'm going into my senior year at Florida State
University. I'm a civil engineer major.
And the past couple weeks I've been interning under Matt
McLean in Public Utilities and Project Management, and it's been
really insightful. We've been able to see all the water treatment
facilities, solid waste, everything that's done at the County in that
area, and then also, you know, how the engineering world interfaces
with public government. And it's been really enjoyable, and I've
been learning a lot.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When are you done? When is
your internship complete?
MR. TOTH: I believe August 11th is around when we're
thinking.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: August. Okay.
Sir, how about yourself?
MR. SZITTAI: Hello there. My name is Logan Szittai. Also
born and raised Collier County. I'm currently going into my senior
year at Brown University studying engineering and political science.
So it's been fun to be working for Engineering and Project
Management and also being here. I loved this meeting. This was
fantastic just to watch and everything.
It's been a fantastic time learning about public utilities and
watching the presentation that we had today. Just thank you for
letting me be here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now, is this something you
July 11, 2023
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volunteered to do, or it's part of your curriculum, part of your
academics, you know, you have to intern, you know, at some county
government or some level of government or --
MR. SZITTAI: Personally, I was looking to come home, and
then I found out about this opportunity. And I was looking to work
for the summer, so it just worked out perfectly.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Where'd the other two go?
They had somewhere more important to be? Where'd they go?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Lunch.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hey, you know what? Thanks for
staying here to the end. It really shows dedication and loyalty.
We'll find out who the other two are, and we'll add another two
weeks to their internship.
Okay. With that, okay, we're adjourned.
*******
**** Commissioner Saunders moved, seconded by Commissioner
McDaniel, and carried that the following items under the Consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted ****
Item #16A1
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
AND APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR THE
MEADOWOOD - PHASE 1, PL20200001183 AND AUTHORIZE
COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE
FINAL OBLIGATION BOND IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF
$4,000 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR THE DEVELOPER’S
DESIGNATED AGENT - A FINAL INSPECTION WAS FOUND
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SATISFACTORY BY THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW STAFF ON
MAY 26, 2023
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
AND APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR THE
MEADOWOOD - PHASE 2, PL20200001806 AND AUTHORIZE
THE COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE
FINAL OBLIGATION BOND IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF
$4,000 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR THE DEVELOPER’S
DESIGNATED AGENT - A FINAL INSPECTION WAS FOUND
SATISFACTORY BY THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW STAFF ON
MAY 26, 2023
Item #16A3
THE CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A PERFORMANCE
BOND IN THE AMOUNT OF $156,928 WHICH WAS POSTED
AS A GUARANTY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER
PL20210001289 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH ISLES OF
COLLIER PRESERVE PHASE 16 - THE AS-BUILT LAKE CROSS
SECTIONS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED AND THE LAKES WERE
INSPECTED ON MAY 25,2023, BY THE DEVELOPMENT
REVIEW DIVISION
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 2023-130: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE
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IMPROVEMENTS AND PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL
PLAT OF FIDDLER’S CREEK PLAZA, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20160003105, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $56,717.90
Item #16A5
THE CONSERVATION COLLIER OTTER MOUND PRESERVE
10-YEAR UPDATE UNDER THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
PROGRAM MARCO ISLAND PARCELS FINAL MANAGEMENT
PLAN - THE MOST RECENT UPDATE OF THE FINAL
MANAGEMENT PLAN (FMP) WAS APPROVED BY THE
CCLAAC ON MAY 3, 2023
Item #16B1
THE BOARD APPROVE A REQUEST TO ADVERTISE A
PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO COLLIER COUNTY
ORDINANCE NO. 2006-56, THE ROCK ROAD IMPROVEMENT
MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT (MSTU), TO CREATE AN
ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO PROVIDE INPUT TO COUNTY
STAFF ON MATTERS RELATED TO THE MSTU
Item #16B2
A SECOND AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 17-7204,
“LELY GOLF ESTATES MSTU LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE,”
WITH SUPERB LANDSCAPE SERVICES, INC., TO EXTEND
THE AGREEMENT’S TERMINATION DATE FOR AN
ADDITIONAL 142 DAY PERIOD THROUGH AND INCLUDING
DECEMBER 31, 2023
July 11, 2023
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Item #16B3
RECOGNIZE FY 2023/24 TRANSPORTATION
DISADVANTAGED PLANNING GRANT FUNDING IN THE
AMOUNT OF $29,265 TO THE COLLIER METROPOLITAN
PLANNING ORGANIZATION FROM THE COMMISSION FOR
THE TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED AND TO
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT.
(TRANSPORTATION SERVICES MANAGEMENT GRANT
FUND 1841) - THE CTD GRANT FUNDING BEGINS ON JULY 1,
2023
Item #16B4
RESOLUTION 2023-131: AMEND EXHIBIT “A” TO
RESOLUTION NO. 2013-238, AS AMENDED, THE LIST OF
SPEED LIMITS ON COUNTY MAINTAINED ROADS, TO
REFLECT SPEED LIMIT CHANGES AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS
Item #16B5
THE BOARD APPROVES AND AUTHORIZES THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN A COLLIER COUNTY LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
MARBELLA LAKES OWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR
LANDSCAPE AND IRRIGATION IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN
THE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY TRAFFIC CIRCLE AT
MARBELLA LAKES DRIVE AND HERMOSA WAY - THE
APPROVED PLANS MEETS FDOT AND COLLIER DESIGN
REQUIREMENTS
July 11, 2023
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Item #16B6
TO RESCIND LOCAL AGENCY PROGRAM (LAP)
AGREEMENT 446252-1-58-01, BETWEEN THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) AND COLLIER
COUNTY, WHICH WOULD HAVE PROVIDED UP TO $456,500
IN FEDERAL FUNDING TO UPDATE COLLIER COUNTY’S
SCHOOL FLASHER SYSTEM; REVOKE THE RESOLUTION
MEMORIALIZING THE BOARD’S ACTION; AND PROCESS
ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16B7
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE PURCHASE OF AN IMPROVED
TRACT OF LAND (PARCEL 1464FEE) REQUIRED FOR THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PHASE II PROJECT
(PROJECT NO. 60249) – FOLIO #405202800001
Item #16B8
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN GRANT AGREEMENT NO. 23CO3,
“COLLIER COUNTY – HURRICANE IAN AND NICOLE
RECOVERY PROJECT”, BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION AND TO ACCEPT GRANT FUNDING IN THE
AMOUNT OF $2,436,457.00 (PROJECT NO. 50280)
Item #16B9
THE SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
COUNTY PERSONNEL TO BEGIN CONTRACT
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NEGOTIATIONS WITH JACOBS ENGINEERING GROUP INC.,
CONCERNING REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
(“RPS”) NO. 23-8108, “DESIGN SERVICES FOR COLLIER AREA
TRANSIT OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE FACILITY,”
AND BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK FOR THE
BOARD’S CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE MEETING - THE
FACILITY SUPPORTS BOTH THE FIXED ROUTE AND DOOR-
TO-DOOR PARATRANSIT SERVICES
Item #16B10
RECOGNIZE AND APPROPRIATE REVENUE TO THE TRAFFIC
OPERATIONS COST CENTER (163630) IN THE AMOUNT OF
$101,908.03 FOR FISCAL YEAR 2023 AND AUTHORIZE ALL
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16B11
APPROVE THE FY2023 ANNUAL PROGRESS REPORT OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY TRANSIT DEVELOPMENT PLAN
INCLUSIVE OF THE ANNUAL PROJECT PRIORITY LIST AND
AUTHORIZE SUBMISSION OF THE PLAN TO THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION - COLLIER
COUNTY COMPLETED A COMPREHENSIVE OPERATIONS
ANALYSIS (COA) IN JULY 2021
Item #16C1
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AS EX-OFFICIO
THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
WATER-SEWER DISTRICT, APPROVE A WORK ORDER TO
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QUALITY ENTERPRISES USA, INC., PURSUANT TO A
REQUEST FOR QUOTATION (“RFQ”) UNDER AGREEMENT
NO. 20-7800 FOR THE “EAGLE LAKES METER ASSEMBLIES
REPLACEMENT AND IMPROVEMENTS” PROJECT, IN THE
AMOUNT OF $599,123, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN THE WORK ORDER (PROJECT NO. 70166.20)
Item #16C2
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AS EX-OFFICIO
THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
WATER-SEWER DISTRICT, AWARD REQUEST FOR
QUOTATION (“RFQ”) NO. 19-7622 (PS 305.12
REHABILITATION) UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 19-7622, THE
“ANNUAL AGREEMENT FOR WASTEWATER PUMP
STATION REPAIR AND RENOVATIONS” TO THE LOWEST
BIDDER U.S. WATER SERVICES CORPORATION AND
AUTHORIZE STAFF TO ISSUE A PURCHASE ORDER IN THE
AMOUNT OF $685,929.12 FOR THE PUMP STATION 305.12
REHABILITATION PROJECT (PROJECT NUMBER 70141)
Item #16C3
CHANGE ORDER NO. 2, ALLOCATING A PORTION OF THE
OWNER’S ALLOWANCE TO COVER THE COSTS FOR WORK
DIRECTIVE NO. 2 IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,224.00 UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 20-7800 WITH PWC JOINT VENTURE LLC
FOR THE “CARICA HVAC IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT,”
AUTHORIZE THE AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF THAT
AMOUNT FOR WORK THE CONTRACTOR COMPLETED
UNDER WORK DIRECTIVE NO. 2, SUBJECT TO IT
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PROVIDING ALL REQUIRED BACKUP DOCUMENTATION
PREREQUISITE TO PROCESSING PAYMENT, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
CHANGE ORDER - THE WORK ORDER ISSUED ON THIS
PROJECT EXPIRED ON FEBRUARY 23, 2023
Item #16C4
APPROVE EXPENDITURES UNDER AN EXEMPTION FROM
THE COMPETITIVE PROCESS AND APPROVE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT NO. 22-013-NS WITH MUELLER SYSTEMS, LLC,
WITH THE INCORPORATED AMENDED AND
RESTATED MUELLER SYSTEMS MASTER USE AGREEMENT,
FOR THE PURCHASE OF SMALL RESIDENTIAL AND
COMMERCIAL METERS, AUTOMATIC METER READING
COMPONENTS, AND ADVANCED METERING
INFRASTRUCTURE DIRECTLY FROM MUELLER
Item #16C5
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE CERTIFICATION OF
FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, AS REQUIRED BY THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION, CERTIFYING THE ABILITY OF THE PUBLIC
UTILITIES DEPARTMENT TO FUND A POTENTIAL PLUGGING
AND ABANDONMENT PLAN FOR THE DEEP INJECTION
WELL SYSTEM AT COLLIER COUNTY’S GOLDEN GATE
WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT SHOULD THE WELL
BECOME UNUSABLE OR IS NO LONGER NEEDED – A
MECHANICAL INTEGRITY TEST WAS PERFORMED IN
JANUARY 2023, THE TEST PRODUCED SUCCESSFUL
July 11, 2023
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RESULTS
Item #16D1
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THREE (3) LANDLORD PAYMENT
AGREEMENTS BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND MICHAEL
AND MICHELLE NOJUNAS, RANDALL L. FREDRICKSON,
AND KIRK SANDERS, ALLOWING COMMUNITY AND
HUMAN SERVICES (CHS) TO ADMINISTER THE RAPID RE-
HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION PROGRAM
THROUGH THE EMERGENCY SOLUTIONS AND RAPID
UNSHELTERED SURVIVOR HOUSING GRANTS PROGRAM.
(HOUSING GRANT FUND 1835 AND HOUSING MATCH FUND
1836)
Item #16D2
A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO ALLOW CONTINUOUS
OPERATION OF THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM WITH AN ANTICIPATED AWARD IN
THE AMOUNT OF $4,486,496 FOR STATE FY 2023/2024. (SHIP
GRANT FUND 1053)
Item #16D3
RESOLUTION 2023-132: APPROVE THE COLLIER COUNTY PY
2023 ONE-YEAR ACTION PLAN FOR U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
HOUSING & URBAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT, HOME AND EMERGENCY
SOLUTIONS GRANTS PROGRAMS, INCLUDING THE
REPROGRAMMING OF PRIOR YEAR FUNDS AND
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ESTIMATED PROGRAM INCOME; (2) AUTHORIZE THE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$3,776,300.43 FOR THE HUD PY 2023-2024 BUDGET; (3)
APPROVE THE REVISED CITIZEN PARTICIPATION PLAN; (4)
APPROVE AND EXECUTE THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION,
AND ASSOCIATED U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND
URBAN DEVELOPMENT CERTIFICATIONS AND
ASSURANCES, SF 424S APPLICATIONS FOR FEDERAL
ASSISTANCE; (5) AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN ANY
REQUIRED HUD CERTIFICATIONS, SF 424 DOCUMENTS,
AND FUNDING APPROVAL AGREEMENTS RELATED TO THE
AFOREMENTIONED PROGRAMS AND PLAN, AND
AUTHORIZE TRANSMITTAL TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
HOUSING & URBAN DEVELOPMENT; AND (6) APPROVE
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN FIVE (5)
SUBRECIPIENT GRANT AGREEMENTS. (HOUSING GRANT
FUND 1835 AND MATCH 1836)
Item #16D4
ACCEPT THE FY22-23 STATE AID TO LIBRARIES GRANT
FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF $161,047 AND AUTHORIZE
THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT. (PUBLIC
SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839) - THESE GRANT FUNDS CAN
BE USED FOR ANY PUBLIC LIBRARY NEED EXCEPT FOR
BUILDING CONSTRUCTION
Item #16D5
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO
THE SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COLLIER
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COUNTY HOUSING AUTHORITY AND COLLIER COUNTY
UNDER THE U.S. HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
HOME INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIPS PROGRAM TO UPDATE
THE QUARTERLY PERFORMANCE REPORT. (HOUSING
GRANT FUND 1835) - TO CONTINUE TO PROMOTE
AFFORTABLE RENTAL ASSISTANCE SERVICES TO COLLIER
COUNTY RESIDENTS
Item #16E1
THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR VARIOUS
COUNTY DIVISION'S AFTER-THE-FACT PURCHASES
REQUIRING BOARD APPROVAL IN ACCORDANCE WITH
PROCUREMENT ORDINANCE 2017-08 AND THE
PROCUREMENT MANUAL, AS WELL AS, TO APPROVE THE
PAYMENT OF $4,714.74 IN EXPENDITURES THAT HAVE
BEEN INCURRED THAT WERE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH
THE CONTRACTS OR PROCUREMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR
ASSOCIATED INVOICES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PAID
Item #16E2
AN AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF
$47,494.24 TO PRESIDIO NETWORKED SOLUTIONS, INC.,
UNDER PURCHASE ORDER 4500222795, FOR A THREE-YEAR
CLOUD INSIGHTS SUBSCRIPTION - PURCHASE ORDER WAS
ISSUED ON DECEMBER 30, 2022
Item #16F1
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THE CHAIRPERSON TO EXECUTE DEED CERTIFICATES FOR
PURCHASED BURIAL RIGHTS AT LAKE TRAFFORD
MEMORIAL GARDENS CEMETERY AND AUTHORIZE THE
COUNTY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO TAKE ALL ACTIONS
NECESSARY TO RECORD THE DEED CERTIFICATES WITH
THE CLERK OF THE COURT’S RECORDING DEPARTMENT
Item #16F2
RESOLUTION 2023-133: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2022-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES)
Item #16F3
AWARD INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 23-8074,
“ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS,” TO SIMMONDS
ELECTRICAL OF NAPLES, INC., AS THE PRIMARY VENDOR,
AND TECHNICAL MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATES, INC., AS THE
SECONDARY VENDOR, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENTS – SIMMONDS
ELECTRICAL OF NAPLES, INC. HAS BEEN IN BUSINESS
SINCE 1982, IS A FLORIDA CERTIFIED LICENSED
CONTRACTOR, AND HAS PROVIDED SERVICE FOR COLLIER
COUNTY UNDER PRIOR CONTRACTS SINCE 2009.
TECHNICAL MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATES, INC. HAS BEEN
July 11, 2023
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IN BUSINESS SINCE 1983
Item #16F4
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 TO INCREASE THE VALUE OF TASK 3
- 30% CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$126,500.00 AND ADD A TIME EXTENSION OF 258 DAYS
ASSOCIATED WITH THAT TASK UNDER AGREEMENT NO.
21-7911, FOR THE “DESIGN SERVICES FOR COLLIER
COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY” PROJECT, WITH RG
ARCHITECTS, P.A., AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER. (PROJECT NO.
50239) - THE PROJECT WAS VALIDATED BY THE
INFRASTRUCTURE SURTAX CITIZEN OVERSIGHT
COMMITTEE ON JUNE 23RD, 2021
Item #16F5
FIRST AMENDMENT TO LICENSE AGREEMENT TO CLARIFY
THE TERM TO ALLOW COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER
DISTRICT CONTRACTOR DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC. TO
CONTINUE TO USE COUNTY-OWNED PROPERTY FOR THE
NAPLES PARK PUBLIC UTILITIES RENEWAL PROJECT ON
105TH AVENUE NORTH AND 106TH AVENUE NORTH
Item #16F6
THE TERMINATION OF THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT AGENCY HAZARD MITIGATION GRANT
PROGRAM SUB-RECIPIENT AGREEMENT H0600 WITH THE
FLORIDA DIVISION OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT IN THE
July 11, 2023
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AMOUNT OF $1,931,593 AND APPROVE ALL NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS (PROJECT NO. 33744)
Item #16F7
AN ALTERNATIVE IMPACT FEE DEMAND REDUCTION
ANALYSIS RATE STUDY AND THE ASSOCIATED REDUCED
ROADS AND PARKS IMPACT FEE CALCULATIONS FOR THE
TOWN OF AVE MARIA, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE
PROVISIONS OF SECTION 74-204 OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES
Item #16F8
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 ADDING FIFTY-EIGHT (58) DAYS TO
AGREEMENT NO. 21-7883-ST (CMAR), MAIN CAMPUS
CHILLER PLANT UPGRADES, WITH O-A-K/FLORIDA, INC.
D/B/A OWEN-AMES-KIMBALL COMPANY AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECTS #50214 AND #50189)
Item #16F9
THE AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF WORK/PURCHASE
ORDER NO. 4500223423 TO EARTH TECH ENVIRONMENTAL,
LLD IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,033.00 (INVOICE NO. 9199), IN
CONNECTION WITH THE PROVISION OF A PROTECTED
SPECIES SURVEY AND ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES UNDER
CONTRACT 18-7432-EV, WHICH SERVICES WERE
NECESSARY FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY RESOURCE
RECOVERY PARK /GOVERNMENT OPERATION BUSINESS
July 11, 2023
Page 139
PARK PROJECT, AND TO APPROVE AND ACCEPT STAFF’S
FEBRUARY 15, 2023, EMAIL TO EARTH TECH TO SERVE AS
THE OFFICIAL NOTICE TO PROCEED INITIATING SERVICES
IN THE NOT TO EXCEED QUOTED AMOUNT OF $17,004.00
UNDER THE WORK/PURCHASE ORDER. (PROJECT NUMBER
70167)
Item #16G1
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, ACTING AS THE
COLLIER COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY, APPROVE A FIRST
AMENDMENT TO COLLIER COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY
LEASEHOLD AGREEMENT FOR HANGAR CONSTRUCTION
WITH THE COLLIER MOSQUITO CONTROL DISTRICT
RELATED TO ITS CONSTRUCTION OF AIRCRAFT HANGARS
AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT
Item #16J1
RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN JUNE 15, 2023, AND JUNE 28,
2023, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16J2
THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND PURCHASING
CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF JULY 5, 2023
July 11, 2023
Page 140
Item #16K1
THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AGAINST JOHN CARROLL AND KACI
RENEE CARROLL IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE
TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, TO RECOVER DAMAGES FOR THE
REPAIR OF COLLIER COUNTY PROPERTY TOTALING
$3,345.72, PLUS COSTS OF LITIGATION
Item #16K2
THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AGAINST YORDANKA GONZALEZ
TORRES IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE TWENTIETH
JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, TO RECOVER DAMAGES FOR THE REPAIR OF
COLLIER COUNTY PROPERTY TOTALING $1,875.52, PLUS
COSTS OF LITIGATION
Item #16K3
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
AND RELEASE IN THE CASE OF COLLIER COUNTY BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS V. RACHEL JIMENEZ LOPEZ
(CASE NO. 23-SC-1174) NOW PENDING IN THE COUNTY
COURT OF THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, CONCERNING THE
RECOVERY OF DAMAGES FOR THE REPAIR OF COLLIER
July 11, 2023
Page 141
COUNTY PROPERTY TOTALING $7,956.38 PLUS $371.40 IN
LITIGATION COSTS FOR A TOTAL SUM OF $8,327.78
Item #16K4
A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$65,000 PLUS $14,106.23 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEYS’ FEES
AND EXPERT FEES AND COSTS, FOR THE TAKING OF
PARCEL 1241FEE, REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH
ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT, PROJECT NO. 60168
Item #16K5
A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$172,850 PLUS $36,438.24 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEYS’ FEES
AND COSTS, AND EXPERT FEES AND COSTS, FOR THE
TAKING OF PARCEL 107FEE, REQUIRED FOR THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT,
PROJECT NO. 60168
Item #16L1
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
ACKNOWLEDGE AND ESTABLISH THE HISTORIC
CEMETERY, 815 W. MAIN STREET (PID NO. 00127320003),
AND THE ZOCALO PLAZA, 107 N. 1ST STREET (PID NO.
81681720003), AS “PUBLIC AREAS” AS IDENTIFIED IN
SECTION FIVE OF ORDINANCE NO. 92-40, AS AMENDED,
FOR THE PURPOSES OF ALLOWING THESE AREAS TO BE
BEAUTIFIED AND MAINTAINED BY THE IMMOKALEE
BEAUTIFICATION MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT
July 11, 2023
Page 142
(MSTU) AT AN ENHANCED LEVEL OF SERVICE AND IN
FURTHERANCE OF THE ADOPTED COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT PLAN
Item #17A
ORDINANCE 2023-36: AN ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING THE
ROOST ROAD RPUD TO ALLOW UP TO 300 RESIDENTIAL
DWELLING UNITS BY REZONING MOBILE HOME (MH)
DISTRICT AND ESTATES (E) DISTRICT LANDS TO A
RESIDENTIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (RPUD) ON
64.6+/- ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE
OF ROOST ROAD ABOUT ¼ MILE SOUTH OF THE
INTERSECTION OF ROOST ROAD AND MANATEE ROAD, IN
SECTIONS 10 AND 11, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (THIS IS A COMPANION
TO ITEM #17B) [PL20220000890]
Item #17B
RESOLUTION 2023-134: PETITION VAC-PL20220003815, TO
DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE AND VACATE THE COUNTY AND
THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN THE 60-FOOT-WIDE RIGHT-OF-
WAY, DRAINAGE, AND UTILITY EASEMENT AS RECORDED
IN OFFICIAL RECORDS BOOK 1639, PAGE 1551, OF THE
PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 3/4 OF A MILE EAST OF STATE
ROAD 951 (COLLIER BOULEVARD) AND A 1/4 MILE SOUTH
OF MANATEE ROAD IN SECTION 10, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH,
RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. (THIS IS A
COMPANION TO ITEM #17A)
July 11, 2023
Page 143
Item #17C
RESOLUTION 2023-135: PETITION VAC-PL20220005685, TO
DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE AND VACATE THE COUNTY AND
THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN A PORTION OF THE PLATTED 10-
FOOT DRAINAGE EASEMENT LOCATED ALONG THE EAST
BORDER OF THE SOUTHERLY PORTION OF LOT 28, HOLLY
TERRACE, AS RECORDED IN PLAT BOOK 4, PAGE 64, OF THE
PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
LOCATED IN SECTION 23, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 25
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND TO ACCEPT
PETITIONER’S GRANT OF A 10-FOOT WIDE BY 53-FOOT
LONG DRAINAGE EASEMENT TO REPLACE THE VACATED
DRAINAGE EASEMENT
July 11, 2023
Page 144
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:41 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
____________________________
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.