Agenda 07/25/2023 Item # 2B (June 27, 2023 BCC Meeting Minutes)07/25/2023
2.B
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Item Number: 2.B
Doc ID: 26140
Item Summary: June 27, 2023, Board Meeting Minutes
Meeting Date: 07/25/2023
Prepared by:
Title: Management Analyst II — County Manager's Office
Name: Geoffrey Willig
07/17/2023 2:53 PM
Submitted by:
Title: Assistant Finance Director — Clerk of the Circuit Court
Name: Derek Johnssen
07/17/2023 2:53 PM
Approved By:
Review:
County Manager's Office Geoffrey Willig County Manager Review
Board of County Commissioners Geoffrey Willig Meeting Pending
Completed 07/17/2023 2:54 PM
07/25/2023 9:00 AM
Packet Pg. 11
June 27, 2023
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, June 27, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also 4-g as
0
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing b ) of such
special districts as have been created accordin and having
conducted business herein, met on this da 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building the Government Complex,
'Z
East Naples, Florida, with th ing Board members present:
***Chairman: Rick LoCastro
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
Burt L. Saunders
I
)n, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
June 27, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; — Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; — Vice Chair
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; — CRAB Co -Chair
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; — CRAB Co -Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN -PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A
CONSENT ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD'S APPROVAL
OF THE DAYS CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE.
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June 27, 2023
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC
PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM
TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN'S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO.2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-249 REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
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June 27, 2023
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
L UNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12: 00 NOON TO 1: 00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation by Pastor Eric Hausler, Christ the King Presbyterian Church, and
the CCSO Chaplain for the Collier County Jail.
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (ex
parte disclosure provided by commission members for consent agenda.)
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
a) 25 Years - Enrique Perez - Pelican Bay Services Division
b) 25 Years - Vilmelena Dye - Parks & Recreation
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation recognizing the centennial anniversary of the Collier County
Sheriff s Office. To be accepted by Sheriff Kevin Rambosk.
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June 27, 2023
B. Proclamation recognizing ReRoute Americas as recipient of the Waste
Reduction Awards Program (WRAP) award, for contributing to the greater
good of Collier County by advocating the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle"
message, thereby helping to prolong the usable life of the Collier County
Landfill. To be accepted by Patrick Bishop, CEO, Michelle Du Preez, Vice
President, and represented by Jonathan Bartos with Solid & Hazardous
Waste Management Division.
C. Proclamation recognizing the Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Court and
Comptroller Office for its place as an instrumental part of the history of
Collier County during this Centennial Year Celebration. To be accepted by
Crystal Kinzel, Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Court and Comptroller.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation of the 2023 Florida Water Environment Association David W.
York Reuse System of the Year Award (Over 15MGD). This award is given
in recognition of outstanding water reuse programs in Florida based on
quality management, water reuse system, and public education/information
aspects of the Reuse System. To be accepted by Robert Von Holle, Public
Utilities Department Division Director Wastewater.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Recommendation to
approve an Ordinance amending the Tree Farm Mixed -Use Planned Unit
Development (MPUD) to add 120 dwelling units for a total of 580 dwelling
units (including 58 Low -Income Units), subject to an Affordable Housing
Density Bonus Agreement, on 58.84± acres located at the northwest corner
of Collier Boulevard and Immokalee Road, in Section 22, Township 38,
Range 26, Collier County, Florida. [PL20220004279]
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June 27, 2023
B. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Recommendation to
deny an Ordinance rezoning property from Commercial Intermediate
District (C-3) to Heavy Commercial District (C-5), subject to conditions, for
a self -storage facility and general commercial district (C-4) uses on +/-5.98
acres located on the north side of Tamiami Trail East (US 41) just east of
Collier Boulevard (CR 951), on Lots 2 and 3 of Inland Village subdivision,
in Section 3, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, in Collier County, Florida.
(RZ-PL20210002658)
C. Recommendation that the Board adopts an Ordinance creating the unpaved
private road emergency repair municipal service taxing unit by authorizing a
levy of not to exceed one (1.0) mil of ad valorem taxes per year. (This item
was continued from the February 28, 2023, and March 28, 2023, Board of
County Commissioners meetings)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. This item to be heard at 9:30 a.m. Recommendation to hear an update
from Senate President Kathleen Passidomo regarding the potential for
matching funds in the amount of $10 million from the State Legislature for
the purposes of constructing additional square footage not funded by the
United States Department of Veterans Affairs Construction Grant Program
for adult day health care and outpatient therapy services for the proposed
State veterans' nursing home project.
B. This item to be heard immediately following 10A. Recommendation that
the Board direct staff to evaluate moving the proposed location of the State
veterans' nursing home from the northwest parcel of the Golden Gate Golf
Course site to the 18-acre location originally proposed for development of
the Big Shots entertainment complex, to work with First Tee of Naples to
continue to ensure their development needs are met, and to determine if a
public golf course can be designed complementing these changes.
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. This item to be heard no sooner than 1 p.m. Recommendation to accept a
project update on the Collier County Mental Health Facility and staff
recommendation to proceed with the design of option number one for
87 total beds (45 CSU, 30 adult Medicare/Acute and 12 ESAC) with an
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June 27, 2023
estimated construction cost of $44 million. (Project No. 50239) (Ed Finn,
Deputy County Manager)
B. Recommendation to award Request for Proposal ("RFP") #22-8023,
"Outsourcing of County Marinas," to B1uWater Florida, LLC. ("B1uWater")
in which eight percent of all gross sales revenue (excluding fuel), six percent
of gross sales revenue from fuel, and one hundred percent of all watercraft
launch and parking fees are remitted to the County, and authorize the
Chairman to sign the attached Agreement. (Olema Edwards, Parks and
Recreation Division Director)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATE
1) 4TH OF JULY FIREWORKS UPDATE
2) COMMERCIAL VENDOR PERMITS
3) CELL SERVICE/TOWER UPDATE
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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June 27, 2023
16. Consent agenda - all matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the board, that item(s) will
be removed from the consent agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to adopt a resolution amending Resolution 2021-
120 for the Bellmar Village SRA within the Rural Lands Stewardship
Area Overlay District (RLSA) by way of a first amendment to the
Credit Agreement for Bellmar Village SRA. The subject property is
located in Sections 2, 39 10, and 11, Township 49 South, Range 28
East, Collier County. [PL20210001496] (This is a companion to Items
# 16A2 and # 17A)
2) Recommendation to adopt a resolution amending Resolution 2020-24
for the Rivergrass Village SRA within the Rural Lands Stewardship
Area Overlay District (RLSA) by way of a first amendment to the
Credit Agreement for Rivergrass Village SRA. The subject property
is located in Sections 10, 14, 15, 22, 23, and 27, Township 48 South,
Range 28 East, Collier County. [PL20210001496] (This is a
companion to Items # 16A 1 and # 17A)
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water facilities for AutoZone #6873 Naples, PL20230002698.
4) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the sewer utility
facilities for Collier County Resource Recovery Park — Phase A,
PL20230004556.
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water and sewer utility facilities for Southbrooke Medical
Center, PL20230003683.
6) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Edge 75 by Watermark,
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June 27, 2023
Application Number PL20190000548 (FP) and Application Number
PL20180003695 (SDP), and authorize the release of the maintenance
security in the amount of $8,946.
7) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer facilities and accept the conveyance of the potable water and
sewer facilities for Valencia Trails Naples - Plat Three,
PL20220007022.
8) Recommendation to approve for recording the minor final plat
Antilles 3, application PL20220007209.
9) Recommendation to approve for recording the amended final plat of
Caymas Replat, (Application Number PL20220008455) approval of
the standard form Construction and Maintenance Agreement, and
approval of the performance security in the amount of $7,254,920.86.
10) Recommendation to approve for recording the final plat of Lido Isles
(Application Number PL20220005501) approval of the standard form
Construction and Maintenance Agreement and approval of the
performance security in the amount of $1,647,786.28.
11) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a
Performance Bond in the amount of $140,960 which was posted as a
guaranty for Excavation Permit Number PL20190000063 for work
associated with Kaicasa.
12) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners determine
a valid public purpose and authorize payment, in the amount of $675,
for Collier County Planning Commissioner, Joseph Schmitt, to attend
the Florida Chamber of Commerce 36th Annual Environmental
Permitting Summer School, an Environmental Permitting Seminar for
the dates of July 18-21, 2023.
13) Recommendation to approve the release of three code
enforcement liens with a value of $28,089.09 for payment of
$1,139.09 in the code enforcement actions entitled Board of County
Commissioners v. Edward Slasienski, Code Enforcement Board Case
No. CEPM20090005339 relating to property 1112 Highlands Drive,
Collier County, and Case Nos. CENA20090005343 and
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June 27, 2023
CEPM20090005344, relating to property 1100 Highlands Drive,
Collier County.
14) Recommendation to approve an Easement Use Agreement
(Agreement) for Lot 65, Parrot Cay, according to the plat thereof as
recorded at Plat Book 58, Page 75 of the public records of Collier
County. (EUA-PL20220008520)
15) Recommendation to approve an Easement Use Agreement
(Agreement) for Lot 70, Parrot Cay, according to the plat thereof as
recorded at Plat Book 58, Page 75 of the public records of Collier
County. (EUA-PL20230001525)
16) Recommendation to approve the Conservation Collier Winchester
Head Preserve Interim Management Plan update under the
Conservation Collier Program.
17) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase
with: (1) Stephen Craparo, (2) Albert N. and Linda M. Fleming, and
(3) Ivan and Ann O. Fesser under the Conservation Collier Land
Acquisition Program, at a cost not to exceed $134,265.
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation that the Board approves and authorizes the
Chairman to execute a Collier County Landscape Maintenance
Agreement between Collier County and Maplewood Homeowners'
Association, Inc., for landscape and irrigation improvements within
the Sherbrook Drive, Stanhope Circle, and Crossfield Circle public
rights -of -way.
2) Recommendation that the Board approves and authorizes the
Chairman to execute a Collier County Landscape Maintenance
Agreement between Collier County and Collier Health Park Owners'
Association, Inc., for landscape and irrigation improvements within
the Health Park Boulevard public right-of-way.
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute
Amendment No. 1 to Agreement RT015 between Collier County and
the Florida Department of Environmental Protection to extend the
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June 27, 2023
Agreement for a three-month period from July 1, 2023, to September
30, 2023, for Biological Debris Removal associated with Red Tide
within Collier County.
4) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 adding 90 days
under Agreement No. 22-8046, "Davis Blvd (SR-84) Landscape
Improvements - Grant Funded" project, with Hannula Landscaping
and Irrigation, Inc., and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
change order.
5) Recommendation to authorize the electronic submission of the County
Incentive Grant Program (CIGP) Application with the Florida
Department of Transportation to fund a phase of Immokalee Rd. and
Livingston Rd. overpass project in the amount of $10,000,000.
6) Recommendation to approve a Resolution and authorize the Chairman
to execute the State FY2023/24 Transportation Disadvantaged Trip &
Equipment Grant Agreement with the Florida Commission for the
Transportation Disadvantaged in the amount of $744,198 with a local
match of $82,688, to assist with system operating expenses, and
authorize the necessary budget amendments. (Transit Grant and
Match Funds 4034/4035)
7) Recommendation to approve the Selection Committee's ranking for
Request for Professional Services ("RPS") No. 23-8085, "Design
Services for 47th Avenue NE - Immokalee Road to Everglades
Boulevard" and authorize staff to begin contract price negotiations
with the top -ranked firm, Kimley Horn and Associates, Inc., so that
staff can bring a proposed agreement back for the Board's
consideration at a subsequent meeting (Project #60212).
8) Recommendation to award Construction Services for the CR-846E
Surtax Sidewalk Project, from East Main Street (SR 29) to Airpark
Boulevard, in the unincorporated community of Immokalee, to
Coastal Concrete Products LLC., under the Roadway Contractor
Services Agreement No. 21-7842. (Project Number 60228)
9) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 5 to Agreement No.
16-6699, Professional Design Services for the "Eleven Bridge
Replacements Project" with HNTB Corporation to extend the contract
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June 27, 2023
time for professional post -design and related services on the project
by an additional 354 days, in a total not to exceed amount of
$73,734.00, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change
order. (Project #66066)
10) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 adding 90 days
under Agreement No. 22-8047, "Collier Blvd (SR-951) Landscape
Improvements - Grant Funded" project, with Hannula Landscaping
and Irrigation, Inc., and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
change order.
11) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 to Professional
Services Agreement No. 19-7632 with HighSpans Engineering, Inc.,
for the "CEI & Related Services on the 11 Bridge Replacements East
of State Road 29 Package A, B and C" project, to add 60 days to the
contract time and reallocate funds from Task 2 to Task 1 and Task 3,
and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change order.
(Project Number 66066)
12) Recommendation to ratify and approve Change Order No. 2, adding
seventeen (17) days to Agreement No. 20-7708 with Quality
Enterprises USA, Inc., for the Design Build of Veteran Memorial
Boulevard Extension -Phase I project, and authorize the Chairman to
sign the attached change order. (County Project Number 60198)
13) Recommendation to ratify the County Manager's award of the
Request for Quote ("RFQ") for "CCON Wetland Outfalls" under
agreement #20-7800, "Underground Contractor Services" to Douglas
N. Higgins, Inc., in the amount of $631,300.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve an Agreement to Provide Potable Water,
Wastewater and Irrigation Quality Water Utility Services between the
Board of County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, acting as
ex-officio as the Governing Board of the Collier County Water -Sewer
District (hereinafter referred to as the "CCWSD"), the Board of
Supervisors of the Big Cypress Stewardship District (hereinafter
referred to as the "District"), and Collier Land Holdings, Ltd.
(hereinafter referred to as "Landowner") to exclusively provide
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June 27, 2023
potable water, wastewater and irrigation quality water services within
Bellmar Village. (This is a companion to Items #16C2 and #17A)
2) Recommendation to approve a Utility Agreement between CDC Land
Investments, LLC and Collier Land Holdings, Ltd. (Landowners), the
Board of Supervisors of the Big Cypress Stewardship District
(District), and the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County,
Florida, acting ex-officio as the Governing Board of the Collier
County Water Sewer District (CCWSD) to exclusively provide
potable water, wastewater and irrigation quality water services within
the Town of Big Cypress Stewardship Receiving Area (SRA)
development. (This is a companion to Items # 16C 1 and # 17A)
3) Recommendation to award Invitation to Bid ("ITB") No. 23-8067,
"Tamiami Well No. 23 Generator Replacement," to Zabatt Engine
Services, Inc., d/b/a Zabatt Power Systems Inc., in the amount of
$327,681.91, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
Agreement. (Project Number 70069)
4) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid ("ITB") No.
23-8092, "Carica Pump Station Electrical Improvements," to
Technical Management Associates, Inc., in the amount of
$963,100.00, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement.
5) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 3, allocating a portion
of the Owner's Allowance to cover the costs for Work Directive No. 2
in the amount of $12,220.08 under Agreement No. 22-7950 with
Quality Enterprises USA, Inc., for the "Pelican Bay Blvd Sewer
Replacement" project, ratify the work directed by staff and completed
under Work Directive No. 2, and authorize the Chairman to sign the
attached change order.
6) Recommendation to authorize budget amendments to recognize
$912,600 in additional tipping fee revenues received as result of
Hurricane Ian in the Solid Waste Disposal Fund (Fund 4070) and to
use those revenues to pay for additional expenses incurred as a result
of Hurricane Ian in the same fund, and authorize a budget amendment
transferring $80,000 in the Mandatory Trash Collection Fund (Fund
4073) to pay for additional expenses incurred because of Hurricane
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June 27, 2023
Ian.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to accept a restricted donation, in the amount of
$10,000, from the National Philanthropic Trust in support of Collier
County Domestic Animal Services. (Public Services Grant Fund
1839)
2) Recommendation to approve agreement No. 23-020-NS, "Curfew Soil
Fumigant," with Southern Soils Turf Solutions, LLC., in an amount
not to exceed $100,000 per Fiscal Year, under a sole -source waiver
for a period of five years.
E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to accept the report for the sale of 48 items and the
allocation of funds in the amount of $369,395.00 associated with the
County surplus auction held on April 22, 2023.
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid ("ITB") No.
23-8063, "CCSO Marco Substation Seawall & Dredge," to Blue
Marlin Marine Construction & Services, Incorporated, in the amount
of $327,990, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
Agreement.
2) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the Sale and Purchase
for the acquisition of five (5) acres of unimproved land for the
expansion of the Collier County Fleet Management Division ("Fleet")
facility parking area at a cost not to exceed $603,550.
3) Recommendation to approve the Magic Lights Event to be conducted
by the Collier County Agricultural Fair and Exposition, Inc.
4) Recommendation to waive the requirement for the issuance of the
Notice to Proceed for commencement of services under Purchase
Order 4500222179 to Tetra Tech, Inc., for preliminary recovery
consulting support services for Hurricane Ian under Contract # 17-
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June 27, 2023
7116, which were necessary to provide critical consulting services in
the disaster recovery support to County staff, and to approve/ratify
after -the -fact payment of $238,056 in expenditures which have been
incurred that were out of compliance with the contract requirements.
5) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendment
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2022-23 Adopted Budget. (The Budget
Amendments in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and
approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
6) Recommendation to approve Third Extension and Amendment to
Interlocal Agreement between Collier County and the City of Naples
governing use of City of Naples beach parking facilities and park and
recreation programs extending the term to September 30, 2023.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation to award Request for Proposal ("RFP") No. 22-
8051, "Airport Management Consulting Services," to Crawford,
Murphy & Tilly, Inc., and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement.
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous Correspondence June 27, 2023.
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between June 1, 2023, and June 14, 2023, pursuant to Florida
Statute 136.06.
2) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of June 21,
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June 27, 2023
2023.
3) Recommendation to approve Agreement No. 23-8081, "Audit
Services," with CliftonLarsonAllen LLP for three years of auditing
services in the aggregate base amount of $1,371,250 and authorize
execution of the annual audit engagement letter.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to appoint a member to the Conservation Collier
Land Acquisition Advisory Committee.
2) Recommendation to approve and execute a First Amendment to the
Mediated Settlement Agreement between the County, La Minnesota
Riviera, LLC, and the Riviera Golf Estates Homeowners Association,
Inc., regarding settlement of a Bert Harris Claim concerning the
Riviera Golf Course, in order to extend the timeframes provided for in
the Agreement.
3) Recommendation to direct the County Attorney to advertise and bring
back for a public hearing an Ordinance allowing for publication of
certain statutorily required legal advertisements, publications, and
notices on the Clerk of the Circuit Court's public notice website in
lieu of newspaper publication.
4) Recommendation that the Board approve the proposed fee schedules
for the attorneys selected by the Board at its June 13, 2023, meeting to
provide Legal Services for the Code Enforcement & Nuisance
Abatement Board and Contractor Licensing Board.
5) Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to file a lawsuit on
behalf of the Collier County Board of County Commissioners against
Kenneth Andrew Slusser in the County Court of the Twentieth
Judicial Circuit in and for Collier County, Florida, to recover
$20,523.32 in damages incurred by the County for repairs to the
Collier County Government Complex sign, plus costs of litigation.
6) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Settlement Agreement and Release in the amount of $950,000 payable
to Collier County to settle the cases of Collier County v. Mammoth
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June 27, 2023
Constructors, LLC (Case No. 202 1 -CA-000 132), now pending in the
Circuit Court of the Twentieth Judicial Circuit in and for Collier
County, Florida concerning the County's claim for damages to a 24"
wastewater force main and the related case of Amerisure Mutual
Insurance Company v. Mammoth Constructors, LLC, and Board of
County Commissioners of Collier County (Case No. 2:23-cv-00108-
JLB-KCD) now pending in the Federal District Court for the Middle
District of Florida, an action for declaratory relief regarding
Amerisure's coverage for the loss.
L. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
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17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) a recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) unanimous recommendation for approval by the collier county
planning commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) no written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
collier county planning commission, other authorizing agencies or the board,
prior to the commencement of the bcc meeting on which the items are
scheduled to be heard; and 4) no individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
A. This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a Resolution
creating the Town of Big Cypress Stewardship Receiving Area by amending
the Longwater Village Stewardship Receiving Area and converting it to a
town, by designating an additional 544.6± acres as a Stewardship Receiving
Area, to allow the development of residential dwelling units,
commercial/light industrial, civic, governmental and institutional uses, and
senior housing subject to a maximum PM peak hour trip cap; and by
approving the receiving area credit agreement and establishing stewardship
credits utilized by the designation of the Town of Big Cypress Stewardship
Receiving Area. [PL20210001496] (This is a companion to Items #16A1,
#16A2, #16CI, and #16C2)
B. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance establishing the Caymas
Page 16
June 27, 2023
Community Development District on 767.687± acres located on the east side
of Collier Boulevard approximately two miles south of Davis Boulevard in
Sections 11, 12, 13, and 14, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier
County, Florida. [PL20230000377]
C. This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a Resolution
providing for the establishment of a conditional use to allow a church within
the Estates (E) Zoning District pursuant to Section 2.03.0I I.B. l .c. l of the
Collier County Land Development Code for a ±2.15-acre property located at
13385 Collier Boulevard, also described as the North 150 feet of Tract 114,
Golden Gate Estates, Unit No. 1 subdivision, on the west side of Collier
Boulevard, approximately one-half mile north of Pine Ridge Road, in
Section 10, Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
[PL20220003327]
D. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendment (appropriating
carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the FY22-23 Adopted
Budget. (The budget amendments in the attached Resolution have been
reviewed and approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
Page 17
June 27, 2023
June 27, 2023
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning, everybody.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Listen, if you have any outstanding
warrants or tickets, we've got top leadership from our Sheriffs ce
in town. You've got the man and a bunch of his staff here.
you want to sneak out the back, okay. He might be here u alse
pretenses and looking for a couple of you. And you kn Oho you
are, so just get up quietly and, you know, just slide o back.
Sheriff, always great to see you. Thank you r what you
do for our county.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County, anager.
MS. PATTERSON: Good mom e're going to begin our
invocation and Pledge. Our invo t Ln . going to be given today by
Chaplain Eric Hausler for the Coll r ounty Sheriffs Office at the
Naples Jail. He's also the pa Christ the King Church in East
Naples.
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: And, Chair [sic], if I would ask
you to come forwa d afyi lead us in the Pledge afterwards, if you
would, sir, it wo be our honor.
Item # 1 A
INV NAND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE BY PASTOR
E USLER FROM THE KING PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
A CSO CHAPLAIN FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY JAIL —
INVOCATION GIVEN
PASTOR HAUSLER: The Book of Proverbs in the Old
Testament says the Lord gives wisdom. From his mouth comes
Page 2
June 27, 2023
knowledge and understanding. And wisdom is better than jewels,
and all that you desire cannot compare with her.
I want to pray for wisdom for our commissioners today. Let's
pray.
Gracious Heavenly Father, we bow before you and thank yo
for this day. Thank you, oh, Lord, our God, for the opportu t
you've given us to be here. Thank you that we live in a fre
prosperous country. O
Thank you, Lord, for the commissioners and the* rk today.
We pray that you would give them wisdom, that y uld lead them
and guide them. We pray, Lord, that the out e t is meeting
would be honoringto you and good for our co�nit . We also
Y g Y
thank you, oh, Lord, for all our first respo ers. We thank you for
those who are on the road even right n cting us and our
families.
We thank you for every ble s e enjoy, and we ask for your
blessing now on this meeting. hank you for every good gift you
give us.
We pray in Christ's n e. Amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Item #2A A,'
APPROV TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMA AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL - APPROVED AND OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I'll take you through the
Page 3
June 27, 2023
changes.
First we have a note: Items IOA and IOB are sponsored by
Commissioner Saunders.
We have added language for Item 17A. On Page 52 of the
resolution, Section 9.6.A.I, affordable housing of the SRA docu nt
should read: A 497-unit, 49.7-acre Parcel 1, and a 385-unit,
38.5-acre Parcel 2, affordable housing sites, will be set asid
z�
acquisition by either Collier County, a community land t a
private developer, or any other affordable housing pr r based
upon the appraised value of $22,500 per acre -- th' e added
language -- with a right of first refusal to Coll' t .
The affordable housing parcel will be con i red as a public
benefit use and does not require stewards cr dits but shall be
included in the calculation of total S e. The affordable
housing units shall be excluded fr raffic Impact Statement or
trip cap for the SRA in which the ocated. Parcel 1 and Parcel 2
will be offered for sale for Co ounty in writing before they are
offered to other entities. all for the changes.
We do have several tIF -certain items.
Item IOA is to be �eard at 9:30 a.m. This is an update from
Senate Presiden thleen Passidomo regarding the potential for
matching fun t amount of $10 million from the State
Legislature for State Veterans' Nursing Home project.
Item 1 ill be heard immediately following IOA. This is a
reco ion to move the proposed location of the State Veterans'
N ome Project, work with the First Tee of Naples to ensure
th velopment needs are met and determine if a public golf course
can e designed.
And, finally, Item 11 A to be heard no sooner than 1:00 p.m.
This is an update on the Collier County Mental Health Facility and
design direction.
June 27, 2023
We have court reporter breaks set for 10:30 and 2:50, and we do
plan to try to take lunch at noon so we can accommodate our 1:00
time -certain.
With that, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes. Thank you. \Wt4,
MS. PATTERSON: Chair?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll go to my co]116ies
here. Commissioner Kowal, do you have any changes 1 closures
for the consent or summary agenda?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no cha ut I do have
emails, correspondence, and meetings for the agenda.
Y
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Cor6 sioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Tc4ijk you, Mr. Chairman.
I have changes to the agenda. .I on ex parte on the
summary agenda, some conversatihn, VVeemails in reference to
the Longwood Village Stewardshi i ue, and also the 17C item as
well.
CHAIRMAN LoC IQ Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER L: No changes. I do have meetings
and emails on both summary agendas.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMM O ER McDANIEL: Good morning, Mr. Chair.
CHA LoCASTRO: Good morning.
COM IONER McDANIEL: I, as well, have no changes,
and e meetings and emails on both 17A and C.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have no changes, and I
ha parte meetings on 17A, and that's it.
Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I believe we have a
couple of speakers on both the summary and the consent agenda.
Troy.
Page 5
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: That is correct. For our first speaker, on Item
16K1 is Nick Pearson. He will be followed by Matthew Schwartz,
who will be speaking on 17A.
Mr. Pearson, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if '11
do so at this time.
And there he is.
Mr. Pearson, you have three minutes, sir. Go ahe.
MR. PEARSON: I was just calling in for the Conservation
Collier media agenda item. I don't really have an i to say. I
just wanted to be in attendance in case anyon questions for
me.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, sir. W move on.
Our next registered speaker, Item Matthew Schwartz.
Mr. Schwartz, you should betrom ed to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that at this time. And I'r�ing to give him just a -- oh,
there he is.
Mr. Schwartz, you ha-te`ihinutes, sir.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Thank
you. Can you hear me?
MR. MILL Yes, sir.
MR. SC A Z: Okay, great. Okay. Let me try to get
through th* in ee minutes.
The la e I was here talking about this issue, I was asked
to -- I a k ou folks to hold a public workshop with federal
scientis ho spent over 10 years analyzing the entire RLSA from
the standpoint of its direct and indirect impacts on many federally
listed species, including the Florida panther. That idea was rejected
within the county, telling me that they had already conducted their
own analysis of the RLSA 20 years ago, and that was sufficient.
I'm bumping the request up now. I'm requesting that the Collier
June 27, 2023
County Commission denies the application today and informs the
applicant that the condition for getting this project approved is going
through an approved federal Habitat Conservation Plan and incidental
take permit. This commission does not have the authority to issue
that.
I'm going to read a short definition of "take" as it applies t
Endangered Species Act, and this is from Cornell's Legal In4""ation
Institute. O
No one, public or private, can take an endanger cies of fish
or wildlife. "Take" has been broadly defined to i quote,
harass, harm, pursue, punt, shoot, boom, kill, t re, or collect,
end quote.
Furthermore, FWS has declared that' arm" includes significant
habitat modification or degradation., habitat as well as the
endangered animal is protected fri ite action.
The definition of harm co s irectly from Title 50, Code of
Federal Regulations, Part 10, t n 2. It includes the habitat. No
one, including the applic , stating that no harm will come to
the Florida panther and it bitat due to this and other projects in the
area. In fact, the a plicants were the ones who voluntarily went to
the U.S. Fish an ildlife Service in May of 2009 and requested an
incidental to along with an accompanying Habitat
Conservat' n to comply with federal law.
From 'on 10 of the Endangered Species Act, no permit may
be is the secretary authorizing any taking unless the applicant
s the secretary a conservation plan that specifies: One, the
im which will likely result from such taking; two, what steps the
applicant will take to minimize and mitigate such impacts and the
finding that will be able to implement such steps; three, what
alternative actions to such taking the applicant considered and the
reasons why such alternatives are not being utilized; and, four, such
Page 7
June 27, 2023
other measures that the secretary may require as being necessary or
appropriate for purposes of the plan.
Up until August of 2022, the applicants were engaged in this
process with the Fish and Wildlife Service. They then suddenly quit.
Sorry to say, that's like a teenager who cannot pass his driving
lessons -- his driving test, road test, for one reason or another and
decides to take his or her chances and drive without a licenst�
Proceeding with approval and construction in the R�La at this
point without that permit, incidental take permit, is essentially driving
without a license. It should be rejected by this co Vision until the
required federal permit is obtained. 7
The applicant needs to go back to the Fis a d ildlife Service
and restart the Habitat Conservation Plan ' id ntal take permit
process. I suggest you consult witll y my Attorney on this,
who may need to consult with an Atfamiliar with the details of
the Endangered Species Act, bef r�oing any further down this path
at this point. And I thank yo our time.
CHAIRMAN LoC Sir, please sum up. Great.
Thank you, sir.
MR. SCHWART4 I m done if you have any questions about
this.
CHAI oCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. SC RTZ : Okay.
CHAIN LoCASTRO: Okay.
CHWARTZ: I'm here.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, normally public
co nt is people speak for three minutes, and then we just move
on, but I've never been a huge fan of that, especially when there's a
lot of -- if the public comment leaves a few things, you know, on the
table. I just want to give the opportunity to the County Manager
and/or -- the County Manager or the County Attorney to comment,
June 27, 2023
because I heard a few things in those statements that are of concern
when, you know, I hear statements like we totally rejected protecting
panthers and nothing's being done with the RLSA.
I personally have been in this room quite a bit over the last two
and a half years where we're digging into the RLSA. We realize ' 's
dusty. We're doing quite a bit.
So the speaker and maybe other citizens may not realiA that, but
that statement, I don't think, is entirely accurate based o,u Qy
experience. �•
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Mr. 'ust to say
this --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I an, this is not -- the
public speaker certainly has a right to a hing --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: derstand that.
COMMISSIONER McDANI -- they wish and make
'S
representations about anythine wishes, factual or not, as the
case may be. So we're -,&a
ly have the authority to speak
with the County Attorney awl ask -- or the County Manager --
CHAIRMAN LoC,OKSTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- as the case may be, but this
is -- this is not the time or place for --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I understand that. I mean, I'm not
here to sta debate, but I think when somebody makes a public
state LbWt has a lot of loaded things that either point out the
C;:Ftorney or something that the County Manager is working
Lively on, all's I say is -- I don't disagree with Commissioner
Ycanc aniel, but I want to give you the opportunity to not just sort of
move on and have that sit out there if you so desire to take it. If not,
then we'll move on. I've said my piece.
County Manager, is there anything you wanted to say or add?
June 27, 2023
MS. PATTERSON: The RLSA is a signature and landmark
piece of legislation dating back years, and primary in that is the
preservation of natural lands. And the approval of these types of
land -use petitions does not waive any requirement for state, federal,
or local permitting. So all of those things will still be worked
through as they move through their phases of development.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, ma'am just
wanted to give you the opportunity to be able to say iar
Clot.
County Attorney, is there anything you have toir?
MR. KLATZKOW: I thought the County M- stated it
well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDE4S,
Commissioner McDaniel.
type of a discussion.
And I a
says something that triggers
is the time and place to cll
But my comment is
04W you. I disagree with
f e and place to have this
the Chairman. If someone
then we need to ask it. This
(.i 'So I appreciate that.
we don't have any of the environmental
organizations here that I'm aware of. I've received no comments
from any of the ironmental organizations on this. And I can tell
you -- and th' 1 re y for the audience. They do a great job in
keeping tr ck hat's happening from an environmental standpoint.
Them not VIThere, the Conservancy, the Wildlife Federation,
Aud ems to me to be sort of an indication that maybe this
is, '' on the right path.
QHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well said.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was better said than
mine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It was. That's why -- I was going
to cancel you out anyway, but you shut off. No.
Page 10
June 27, 2023
And that was my only desire. I agree with both of you. I'm
not here to start a big debate, but I think sometimes when stuff s just
sort of hanging out there, it makes the public comment seem, like,
unimportant that we just let people speak, say whatever they want,
and then we move on. That's -- you know, I think we're here to a
much more dynamic meeting, or at least, you know, I will w 1
have the gavel, and you -all stated it perfectly.
Okay. County Manager, what's next? Or do we e nother
comment? I'm sorry, sir, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: No, that was our final publi ent on
consent and summary, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Tha ou, sir.
MS. PATTERSON: We are at Ite This is the approval
of the today's regular, consent, and sum,genda as amended.
COMMISSIONER HALL: S ed.
COMMISSIONER McDANI Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST kay. Movement and second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER L: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: Aye.
COMM O R KOWAL: Aye.
CO I NER SAUNDERS : Aye.
CHA N LoCASTRO: Opposed?
esponse.)
'IRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
ext.
Page 11
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
June 27, 2023
Notes: Items IOA and IOB are sponsored by Commissioner Saunders.
Added Ian,-uaQe to Item 17A: On page 52 of the Resolution, Section 9.6.A L) Affordable Housing of the SRA
document should read:
1.) A 497- unit, 49. 7- acre, Parcel 1 and a 385- unit, 38. 5- acre, Parcel 2: affordable housing sites will be set
aside for acquisition by either Collier County, a Community Land Trust, a private developer or any other
affordable housing provider based upon the appraised value of $22, 5001 acre, with a right of first refusal to Collier
Coun . The Affordable Housing parcel will be considered as a Public Benefit Use and does not require
Stewardship Credits but shall be included in the calculation of total SRA acreage. The Affordable Housing units
shall be excluded from the Traffic Impact Statement or trip cap for the SRA in which they are located. Parcel I and
Parcel 2 will be offered for sale to Collier County in writing before they are offered to other entities.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 10A to be heard at 9:30 a.m.: Update from Senate President Kathleen Passidomo regarding the potential for
matching funds in the amount of $10 million from the State Legislature for the State Veterans' Nursing Home
Project.
Item 10B to be heard immediately following 10A: Recommendation to move the proposed location of the State
Veterans' Nursing Home Project, work with the First Tee of Naples to ensure their development needs are met, and
determine if a public golf course can be designed.
Item 11A to be heard no sooner than 1:00 p.m.: Update on the Collier County Mental Health Facility and design
direction.
7/12/2023 3:58 PM
June 27, 2023
Item #3A2a
25 YEAR ATTENDEES — ENRIQUE PEREZ, PELICAN BAY
SERVICES DIVISION AND VILMELENA DYE, PARKS AND
RECREATION
LJW
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3 is awards and recognitiorr�We
have two today. O
The first is Item 3.A.2.a, 25 years, Enrique Pere ican Bay
Services Division.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't kno they move.
They move on their own. This place is to .
He gets to keep the bag. It's irlcl is included. Yeah.
Very good. Thank you.
Thank you.
Item #3A2b
25 YEAR ATTENDEE05 — ENRIQUE PEREZ, PELICAN BAY
SERVICES DI�IS�ON AND VILMELENA DYE, PARKS AND
RECREATIT�.
PERSON: Twenty-five years, Vilmelena Dye, Parks
and RV
4eatfon.
,4C'p lause.)
VHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Bring the babies up.
MS. DYE: Can I bring the family up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Family photo.
(Applause.)
Page 12
June 27, 2023
Can we have our staff
,) "Absolutely.
Everybody, please come on up.
1 Sheriff, who do you like the best?
LoCASTRO:
RAMBOSK:
lause.)
RIFF RAMBOSK:
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE CENTENNIAL
ANNIVERSARY OF THE COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE. ACCEPTED BY SHERIFF KEVIN RAMBOSK.
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS — ADOP41)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4A is a proclamation recognizing the
centennial anniversary of the Collier County Sheri Office to be
accepted by Sheriff Kevin Rambosk.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He loot Ago d for 100 years. He
really takes care of himself.
Thank you, sir, for all you d
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Tr
with us that are here come on
COMMISSIONER
SHERIFF RAMBO
CHAIRMAN
Who else?
an
Look at me first.
Yes, please.
would you like to say
Good morning. Chairman,
Commission, thank you for recognizing our 100 years and our
century of service, as we also recognize you. Certainly, without
your support and the support of our community, we could not have
accomplished where we are.
Page 13
June 27, 2023
As I mentioned in the past, today our quality of life, with the
work that our members do and that of all of your staff, is one of the
best in the world, and we're honored and proud to be a part of that.
You know, we look at our safe community, number one, but
most importantly, I want to recognize the men and women of the
Collier County Sheriffs Office who are out there 24/7 doing t
that we need to do proactively in a very dedicated, committ nd
k
compassionate way to keep Collier County safe, and th ®e live in a
community where the public is supportive of profession law
enforcement.
So thank you very much. Appreciate it.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION RECOG
RECIPIENT OF THE WAST
PROGRAM (WRAP) AW
GREATER GOOD OF CC
ROUTE AMERICAS AS
UCTION AWARDS
OR CONTRIBUTING TO THE
COUNTY BY ADVOCATING
THE "REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE" MESSAGE, THEREBY
HELPING TO PROLONG THE USABLE LIFE OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY L4NDFILL. ACCEPTED BY PATRICK BISHOP, CEO,
MICHEL4 DWJ PREEZ, VICE PRESIDENT, AND
REPRESE BY JONATHAN BARTOS WITH SOLID &
S WASTE MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL;
ED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS — ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: 4B is a proclamation recognizing ReRoute
Americas as recipient of the Waste Reduction Awards Program for
contributing to the greater good of Collier County by advocating the
Page 14
June 27, 2023
"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" message, thereby helping to prolong the
usable life of the Collier County Landfill to be accepted by Patrick
Bishop, CEO; Michelle Du Preez, vice president; and represented by
Jonathan Bartos with Solid and Hazardous Waste Management
Division.
MS. CAPIZZI: Do you want me to hold that for you? �+
MR. BARTO S : No, it's for the photo.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's recyclable, right? ee h, it's a
prop.
Would either of you like to say anything at t ium -- it's
your choice -- about the award?
MR. BISHOP: No, we're fine. We real a preciate it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ok nk you.
I'll just say it's -- you know, A& a things that kind of flies
under the radar a little bit here in C l ier County is how much our
citizens recycle, but even as i nt as that is, how hard our county
staff works at education, ng sure that our drop-off points, our
landfills are all operating real top capacity.
So it's like on of dose things that's invisible to the community
at times and -- b 't's happening. And so congratulations for all that
you do and f t e u elievable ranking and numbers and metrics
that we se , you know, you don't win awards like that just
because c) you know just operating at an average ace. So
Y �Y �J p g g p
mucft
have a top -of -the -line Sheriffs Office, there's a lot of
stuff b� ' d in the trenches that a lot of citizens don't hear about.
That tikes an awful lot of effort, work, and especially leadership.
So thank you to you and all the people that you represent for
what you're doing for our county and our environment.
(Applause.)
Page 15
June 27, 2023
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE COLLIER COUNTY
CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT AND COMPTROLLER
OFFICE FOR ITS PLACE AS AN INSTRUMENTAL PART N
THE HISTORY OF COLLIER COUNTY DURING THIS �
CENTENNIAL YEAR CELEBRATION. ACCEPTED BY
14
CRYSTAL KINZEL, COLLIER COUNTY CLERK OF QE
CIRCUIT COURT AND COMPTROLLER - MOTI
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SE D BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS—ADOPTE
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4C is a p lamation recognizing the
Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Vo a Comptroller Office for
its place as an instrumental part of "I,,
I ory of Collier County
during the Centennial Year Cele ti to be accepted by Crystal
Kinzel, Collier County Clerk Circuit Court and Comptroller.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: Ms. Kinzel, did you want to -- the
podium's yours, ma'am,.#
MS. KINZ I'll make it quick. I first do want to thank the
county com onits for the recognition and also the county staff.
Working t et on the whole Centennial, it's very exciting for me.
I think it's exciting. Michelle, who joined me in the
phot s actually the instrumental party. We just work on
t* ether.
`NF ut it gave staff an opportunity to really look at the history of
our county and of our organization. And I think it energized them
into what Collier County's all about. So I appreciate the opportunity
to be recognized for that.
Also, I want to let the public know, please go to our website,
Page 16
June 27, 2023
collierclerk.com. We have a whole Centennial button with some
really interesting videos, history, things that the staff put together
about Collier County.
We also have an exhibit over in the courthouse annex of the 100
years of the courthouse. You'll see some great things like how ZN1
picked jurors with bingo machines. A lot of fun stuff.
And over the summer, I plan on having some speakers
historians. We recognized in a video the Leadership C 10
p
founders. That video's on our website. And I hope tothat with a
few more people so that we can record their mem s�nd their
history of our county.
So thank you for the proclamation and th o portunity to tell the
public.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Comm' i' s, if we could get a motion
to accept the proclamationv�
s.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST kay. Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER So moved.
COMMISSIONER ANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONEI#SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: Motion and a second. All in
favor? 0Y.,
COMMI NER HALL: Aye.
COMMIS IONER McDANIEL: Aye.
AN LoCASTRO: Aye.
MISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Page 17
June 27, 2023
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE 2023 FLORIDA WATER
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATION DAVID W. YORK REUSE
SYSTEM OF THE YEAR AWARD (OVER 15MGD). THIS
AWARD IS GIVEN IN RECOGNITION OF OUTSTANDI
WATER REUSE PROGRAMS IN FLORIDA BASED ON
QUALITY MANAGEMENT, WATER REUSE SYST r
PUBLIC EDUCATION/INFORMATION ASPECT THE
REUSE SYSTEM. TO BE ACCEPTED BY ROB ON
HOLLE, PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMEI�[� SON
DIRECTOR WASTEWATER — PRESENTEIa��
MS. PATTERSON:
Item 5A is
Florida Water Environment Asso
System of the Year Award over
recognition of outstanding w
quality management, water
information aspects of the
Holle, Public Utilit De, a n
Congratula ' s.
(Applau .
!f4tation of the 2023
vid W. York Reuse
DRD. This award is given in
se programs in Florida based on
Q6j 'system, and public education
se system to be accepted by Robert von
ent, division director, wastewater.
CHALoCASTRO:
It's totally you.
)C111)9LLE: No.
LoCASTRO:
Do you want say anything, sir?
I'll just add, much like I said about
re��g, you know, the use of water and properly using water and
saving water and all the things that that plaque goes with
is -- sometimes flies under the radar, as we say. But so many things
are being done behind the scenes that put Collier County at such a
high level compared to the rest of the State of Florida, and we're so
June 27, 2023
proud of that.
So, gentlemen, thank you, and thank you for the people that
you're here representing that have worked so hard to earn that award.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we're a couple minutes
early, but I think we can go to our 9:3 0.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think we can. L \Wt4,
'V
Item # 1 OA 0
AN UPDATE FROM SENATE PRESIDENT KA EN
PASSIDOMO REGARDING THE POTENT R ATCHING
FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $10 MILLIO M THE STATE
LEGISLATURE FOR THE PURPOSES A C NSTRUCTING
ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE DED BY THE
UNITED STATES DEPARTME ETERANS AFFAIRS
CONSTRUCTION GRANT PRO)M FOR ADULT DAY
HEALTH CARE AND 01
THE PROPOSED STAT�
PROJECT -UPDATE G
18-ACRE PARCEL AS T
NURSING HO
SECONDED
NT THERAPY SERVICES FOR
S' NURSING HOME
1; MOTION TO DESIGNATE THE
SITE OF THE VETERAN'S
BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
bMMISSIONER MCDANIEL — APPROVED
MS. PA-TTERSON: Item l0A is our 9:30 time -certain. This is
a reco ation to hear an update from Senate President Kathleen
Passido regarding the potential for matching funds in the amount
of $1(�million from the State Legislature for the purpose of
constructing additional square footage not funded by the United
States Department of Veterans' Affairs Construction Grant Program
for adult day health care and outpatient therapy services for the
proposed State Veterans' Nursing Home Project.
Page 19
June 27, 2023
And I'll hand it to Commissioner Saunders. He's sponsoring
this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, the floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We have some special guests here, and I'm going to ask
Mr. Mullins to come forward to introduce our special guests �t e
Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs. We also have th or of
having our Senate president with us this morning, Senat 0
Passidomo.
As everyone knows, Senator Passidomo has n admirable
job as Senate president. She has one more y in at capacity, and
I know she's going to do great things for the St e of lorida and,
quite frankly, setting an agenda for the co t
And so on behalf of myself anq a I want to thank Senator
Passidomo for being here and for, reat work that she has done
and will do.
I had asked the Board at t meeting to take $10 million in
additional money from o ax fund and put it to a potential use
for developing some fal in our nursing home -- pardon
me -- that are not f nded by the federal or state government. So, for
example, a vete 'f
acility to provide adult day health care, a
facility to pro i e bilitation. Those types of services can be
funded by he 4eral Department of Veterans' Affairs, but new
constructio those facilities cannot be.
he request of the Commission at that time was to add
$ n for the construction of those types of facilities at our
ve ra snursing home.
I met with Senator Passidomo, and she agreed to consider that,
and I think she has some comments for us this morning concerning
that, and that's why we're here to this particular item.
We do have several other issues involved in that, and one of
Page 20
June 27, 2023
them being the movement of the nursing home to the 18 acres.
That's actually a separate agenda item, but I think we're going to be
discussing that this morning as well.
So perhaps this would be an appropriate time for Mr. Mullins to
introduce our special guest, and then we'll proceed from there, if
that's acceptable, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
MR. MULLINS: For the record, John Mullins, yoW%.&ector of
Communications, Government, and Public Affairs. also want
to provide my thanks to Senate President Kathlee _4domo.
This year I want to say she almost single-han?dl)fdelivered
over $14 million worth of project appropriation,request funding for
Yp projects. Collier Count jects. It's with her ba fin the Senate that we
were able to accomplish so much this we're looking
forward to great things next year opefully.
SENATE PRESIDENT PAS MO: Great.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST ice job, John. Way to get that in
there.
MR. MULHERE: we're also very pleased today to have
joining us from the Flooda epartment of Veterans' Affairs Deputy
Executive DirecABob Asztalos and Chief of Staff Al Carter. And I
would say pri ba ly after President Passidomo's comment, if they
would Ilk to C, e up and say a few words, that would be
appropriate e Board would like to hear from them.
AN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think, Mr. Chairman, if we
co ear from Senator Passidomo, Senate President Passidomo, on
the issue of the potential for some matching funds, then hear from our
guest from the Department of Veterans' Affairs, I think that would be
really appropriate.
And also, I know all five of us are in agreement about moving
Page 21
June 27, 2023
the veterans' nursing home to the 18 acres, and I also understand that
Bob and Al are going to take a little tour of that 18 acres. And so we
can kind of combine that with this issue on the $10 million. At some
point I'll make a motion to do just that.
So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask Senate Presiden
Passidomo to tell us
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, Mr. Miller, just as L,
reminder, the senator has unlimited time. No lights, pl e. No
lights.
MR. MILLER: I wasn't going there.
SENATE PRESIDENT PASSIDOMO: o. I will tell
you, though, don't ever say that to a politician. allahassee, the
two biggest lies are -- "it's a part-time job" number one, and
number two is when somebody conp,�'p�, Oe podium and says,
"I'll be brief," you might as well j
slippers, and take a nap.
But I do want to be brief b4
were speaking this morning
our pajamas on, your
Dt some really -- we
the vision for the center and
moving forward in the future. This is not your World War II veteran
program anymore. *#*
But first of&U(rs
want to say that I've been involved in this with
Commission for -- you know, I was in the House when
we started his. o that's, you know, over, you know, almost eight
years a o. the vision that the Commission, and, in particular,
Com er Saunders, provided to me just made such a big
differen .
so when I'm up in Tallahassee and we're talking about what
weVd
re going to do in Collier County, it reverberates because it's
forward thinking. And it's funny too -- and I'm saying this because
it's kind of humorous. When we originally were looking at it, we
had a site. Unfortunately, it was kind of far out, and it wasn't near a
Page 22
June 27, 2023
whole lot of services at the time. Today it's probably the middle of
town, but eight years ago it wasn't.
And I remember when I looked at the Golden Gate site, I said,
this is perfect, because you've got a hospital up the road. You've got
the veterans' favorite restaurant, Cracker Barrel, down the street.
You have a shopping center. You -all did a yeoman's job in si g
that property, and I think that made a big, big difference.
So my commitment is to help you with the fundin Ohink,
you know, when you came forward with the $30 mill' , hat was a
game changer for Collier County. Ocala took a sInck, and so
we're moving forward. And I know Bob's g t alk a little bit
about where we're going.
We're going to try to work together a funding request this
year. I think it's a good time -- goo,(d t' nd I'll do whatever I
can to help, because I think this wk��c
we have so many veterans
in Collier County, and they're m the state more and more.
One thing I do want to , too, is my initiative this
year -- as you know, I di ocal as my number one priority this
past year. My next sessi we're going to be living healthy. So
Live Healthy is our initJ tive.
And one o -- one of the things -- the biggest issue that we're
going to have 'th veterans' facility is staffing and the like. So
our numb on iority is going to be how do we attract more and
more healt providers, whether it be doctors, nurses, companies,
hosp. 1 ers. From soup to nuts, we're working on that this
surt'i'ft pass some legislation to attract healthcare workers to the
state, and we're looking at all kinds of different ways of doing that.
And so that, coupled with the workforce housing, which you
would have near this facility, is going to make this veterans facility
probably one of the best in the country.
So I want to thank you for your vision, and I will do whatever I
Page 23
June 27, 2023
can to see it to fruition. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And, Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- I guess, let me do
kind of set the table for some comments from the DepartmeAt
Veterans' Affairs. I'd like to make a motion that we ororsome
y
designate that 18-acre parcel as the site of the veterang home
as opposed to the 12-acre site that was first design 'll make
that as a motion, and then I think that will set t e
comments from our guests.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Secon .
COMMISSIONER McDANIE, ,: and it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion and a
second.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Ch ' sorry. I do have a registered
public speaker on this ite , 1
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Jackie Keay.
My apologies. I should have spoke up sooner.
CHAIRIY LyoCASTRO: No, that's fine.
Hi. oo orning.
MS. Good morning. I'm Jackie Keay. Most of you
kno o good morning.
Wtv veteran, and I'm the new director for the Journey Home.
We're uilding a relationship -based organization here, and the focus
is on connecting veterans to their community. As we know, veterans
in Collier County alone, only 24 percent of eligible veterans access
VA care. So access to care isn't a problem. The problem is there's a
gap in between those services, and I feel like, as a veteran, we are
Page 24
June 27, 2023
indoctrinated when we join the military. Your family, your parents,
they're no longer your family. Your family is the military. Your
family is your buddy. Your family is that person in the trench, in the
foxhole next to you.
But the problem is when we exit the military, no one tells u
how to reintegrate into our community. So oftentimes veter
vulnerable, and they are feeling isolated.
So whatever you -all do with this project, ensure th-4t(e erans
who -- the vision, they look like me, they have brown skin, they are
females, many of them suffering from PTSD as w ilitary
sexual trauma on so many issues. So when a b ut outpatient
services, those type of services should be inclu e a well.
I see another major gap with those s ri g with alcohol
dependence, drug dependency. There' o ere for them to go
besides jail. They won't find ther p; e. So I would like to ask
you -all to consider putting in an tj&tient therapy service for those
suffering from those issues. n
And, again, we knowthe most important thing that veterans
need is to be around other veterans to heal. They're not going to find
healing in other institu4ons; however, the caveat to that is the
veterans need to integrated into their community, so that's part of
our mission i teg ting veterans with their community.
So th k all very much. This is a very important
undertaken feel like -- think about the veterans, focus on veterans
first. e one thing I love about our country and our
c y, we will disagree on many things politically, but I have
ye ee a community member who does not want to honor and, you
know, show respect and love to veterans.
So thank you all very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
(Applause.)
Page 25
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. So we've got a motion
and a second that everybody's going to support, I assume. Why don't
we call for the vote on that and then I'll ask --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion andz*,,,
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye. 'V
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. 0
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye. JON$
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I tp hs s Panimously.
COMMISSIONER SAUND o with that, I'd like to ask
our guests from the Florida DepaZ t of Veterans' Affairs -- I know
you're going to be taking a to e're going to be looking at -- by
moving this to the 18 acr , t s going to create an opportunity to do
everything on one floor, aNso the additional 10 million from the
Collier County and potVitially the 10 million from the State, with that
additional $20 ' 'on, we should be able to build a first-class nursing
home with al the, other amenities, the adult day health care, the
rehabilitat' n s ices, provide a separate entrance, if necessary, for
those ty es rvices, and do other things as has been indicated by
the pr v speaker that might be necessary for the benefit of the
v n We'll have a little bit of a campus atmosphere there, and I
thi 41at's going to be a wonderful thing.
And I appreciate you being here. I look forward to your
comments.
MR. ASZTALOS: Thank you, Senator, and thank you,
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. I'm Bob Asztalos, the Deputy
Page 26
June 27, 2023
Executive Director of the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs.
I have Al Carter with me. Al Carter's our chief of staff, and he
is the person who really shepherded our last nursing homes that were
built around the state.
I don't even want to call this a state veteran nursing home. N
s
is really going to be a long-term care community. This is go'
be a model for the country, and we're very excited about pa ring
with you. 0
We've talked about this in the last meeting, so I' going to
go through all the details. Just one point, though ant to make.
Jackie brought up a very good point. As we '1 is -- this
community, we have to look at who is going t y our clients, right.
It's not the World War II generation. It's t the Korean War. It
will be some of the Vietnam War, blit ' t ext generation. It's
the 911 veterans who need more r �' L vices. They have
prosthetics. They have wounds.
Women veterans. Wo erans, we have one of the highest
populations of women v n the country, 162,000. We are
going to see more women erans coming into our homes, so we
have to have services that meet their needs, and that's what we're
looking to do.
And so - s th is an exciting program. Again, it's not even a
s4ee,r n 'ng home. It is a state veteran long-term care
ct we're excited about it.
ive you -all an update, since we last talked at the last
c n meeting, so under the leadership of President Passidomo,
tature did pass $500,000 for us to start doing the site project.
We have a meeting tomorrow. In fact, when I get back with the
Department of Management Services to start talking about them,
us -- FDV has got a contract with them, and then they are going to
put out a bid for an architect and all the site work to be done. So
Page 27
June 27, 2023
we're looking to move forward on that.
We are looking to propose a legislative budget request so that
we have the money to move forward with the grant request. We are
still shooting for April to get our grant request in to the federal
government so that we can get -- draw down the federal match a
move forward on this project. tse
So we're excited about the partnership. I think the -- t*
moving to the 18 acres really does move this along, bec�u�e had
some concerns about trying to put all these great services" in the
smaller site, but I think moving to this larger parc t really takes
us over that speed bump, and I think we're go' t e le to move
ahead in a great partnership here for the vetera s own in this area.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank u, sir.
MR. ASZTALOS: Okay. T4a o .
COMMISSIONER SAUND nd I think the -- I guess the
message to our staff is to make s at everybody's working
diligently with the Departme eterans' Affairs and with Senate
President Passidomo and It r lobbyist to make all of this come
together, the $10 million from the state, and also the preparation of
the site, designatio of the site.
Mr. Chai the other issue involves the golf course, which is
really not an * s e our visitors from the Department of Veterans'
Affairs or or for Passidomo. I would like to move into that
when we're ' hed with this particular item. I think we -- I think
we a . point.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
MMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One thing I would just like to add,
you know, on behalf of all of us, Senator, thank you so much for
being here. You're always accessible, you know, to us, and it's great
that you live in Collier County, so it makes it a little bit easy. But I
June 27, 2023
think no matter where you lived, you're that -- you have that level of
accessibility to everybody across the state.
And so we are lucky to have you as a local citizen, but more
importantly, we're lucky to have you in Tallahassee. When we went
up to Tallahassee, we had a few moments with Senator Passidom
and her dedication and also understanding of moving parts is t
speed, and so that's very helpful to us.
As a veteran myself, I also -- and maybe it's part o ary
protocol -- I have to give a shout -out to General "Ha " Hartsell,
if he's listening. He's a Marine Corps two -star an anks me by a
lot. Outranks Commissioner Kowal by a lot, t a so been
extremely accessible to all of us and is part of is team as well.
So this is truly a team effort. We h so much opportunity on
the table, and one of the things that yV s of coined here is we
never wanted the next nursing ho wanted the best one. And
so we are moving forward and c ed and dedicated, and
together, as a team, this is goi e a veterans' nursing home that's
going to be a benchmark
And shovels won't g the ground tomorrow. We commonly
hear from, you know, citizens, why isn't it being built immediately?
There's a lot of ing parts, but in order to do it right, you have to
measure twic a d t once. So nobody's stalling on anything. I
think we'v on ad even more opportunity and more good news and
now a bigg ' e and more square footage to work with, which was
alwa cern.
think all of us here are excited to lead from our side here in
Co County. And, you know, we'll push as hard as you -all can
pull, and it's going to be a great day when maybe our replacements
are all out there cutting ribbon, who knows, but it's going to be an
incredible home with in -patient and out -patient things, and a lot of
services that don't exist anywhere else but will in future homes
Page 29
June 27, 2023
because we/you have all set that benchmark for us.
So thank you very much for your leadership. It's much
appreciated and highly respected.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, really. Thank
you.
I think Mr. Mullins is going to be guiding the tour.
MR. MULLINS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Great. 0
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The Sheriff also sat you -all
were double parked outside. So I'm sorry; that's ing we can
control. He doesn't fall under us.
Thank you again, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: nk you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Coo er Saunders.
Item # 1 OB
BOARD DIRECT STAF ALUATE MOVING THE
PROPOSED LOCATIO THE STATE VETERANS'
NURSING HOME FROM HE NORTHWEST PARCEL OF THE
GOLDEN GAT OLF COURSE SITE TO THE 18-ACRE
LOCATION IG ALLY PROPOSED FOR DEVELOPMENT
OF THE G TS ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEX, TO WORK
WITH FIR E OF NAPLES TO CONTINUE TO ENSURE
THEIR�VT'ELOPMENT NEEDS ARE MET, AND TO
D TERMINE IF A PUBLIC GOLF COURSE CAN BE DESIGNED
COVPLEMENTING THESE CHANGES — MOTION TO
APPROVE WITH CHANGES INCLUDING UPDATE BASED ON
ITEM #l0A MOTION/APPROVAL BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL —
APPROVED
Page 30
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The next item is the issue
dealing with the golf course. And I can tell you, there's no one in the
room that's more disappointed than I am that BigShots canceled their
lease. None of us could have foreseen that, I believe, TopGolf 1
buying BigShots and TopGolf doesn't want a competitor this 1
, Z�
and so they've canceled the deal. And, quite frankly, the ILA4 at
ClubCorp and BigShots really just weren't communicate Oith us.
They weren't really honest with us as to what was re ing on.
As late as April, they were in here talking about fi g, and we all
knew that that was probably not the case.
So, anyway, moving forward, I've shown i p operty to two
major golf course developers, operators, owners, and they've all
said -- both of them have said without 'tation that this
remaining property, putting the 1 ack into the property -- and
that was a location where there SeN o holes of golf there, putting
that property back into this go o se. They can do a golf course.
That's not a problem; the a driving range, most importantly,
provide the facilities nee or First Tee and a little practice green, a
little clubhouse, and a restaurant. All of that can still go on this
property. And,Ae frankly, that is the best use of that property for
our communie�
I wa to �d some excerpts from a letter that we received from
Reinhold S eding with Arthrex. So I think it really tells the
whol ecause this is not just a golf course for the Golden Gate
c y. It's in that community, but this is a golf course for all of
the ci zens in Collier County that perhaps aren't able to afford going
to one of these clubs or one of the other private clubs in the county.
But Reinhold Schmieding says, on behalf of Arthrex and over
4,000 employees and their families in Collier County, we would like
to advise our county government leadership of the importance of
Page 31
June 27, 2023
having a public golf course for our local families and children. In
addition to the many benefits the game of golf affords people of all
ages, this golf course will play a significant role in helping recruit
and retain employees and their families to overcome the enormous
challenges companies like Arthrex face to maintain our presence
Collier County due to skyrocketing real estate prices, high co t�+
living, lack of affordable housing for employees, and clima
challenges.
The First Tee has been a great attraction and ret And
this is really the most important part of this letter. irst Tee has
been a great attraction and retention benefit f a . e who live and
work in Collier County. The First Tee affiliat d o f course will also
make a huge statement that our county is ' erested in welcoming
families and providing more access 4o e of golf, especially for
those who lack the financial resou lay in Collier County.
Arthrex has invested over $2 1 ion in the First Tee, as
cofounder and primary spons over 15 years and has committed
over $1 million to the Fi cademy headquarters building
project in Collier County. he County not investing in the adjacent
12-hole public golf coupe will jeopardize the entire project.
Please supW First Tee and its need for a 12-hole public golf
course and pr c 'ce ea for all children and their families in Collier
County.
I kno ave with us Cindy Darland with First Tee, and she,
I'm s oing to have a few comments to make.
er County has been looking at acquiring and developing a
go c urse for our community, literally, for the last 30 or 40 years.
This is really the best opportunity if we're going to have public golf.
And as I said, I've talked to golf course operators. They've said that
giving Collier County residents a deep discount, 40 or 50 percent in
the cost of a round of golf with Collier residents able to make
Page 32
June 27, 2023
reservations just as well as anybody else who's paying a higher price,
this course could be very -- it would be very profitable for a
professional operator.
It won't be profitable if Collier County tries to operate it, but it
will be very profitable if we have a professional group and we gi
them the right incentives to operate and develop this golf cou+
And so, Mr. Chairman, at some point in this discussio ,
going to make a motion that we direct staff to continue e forts to
develop this 12-hole golf course, which would inclu ing sure
that the proper zoning's in place, the proper land i ce, and that
we continue with the efforts to design this co is efforts have
been ongoing.
I know there's going to be some co nts, but that will be my
motion at some point, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: ' ler, I show -- do you have
public comment?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir have two registered speakers.
Your first speaker is Cin nd, and she'll be followed by David
Bumpous.
MS. DARLAND: Good morning.
CHAIRMA oCASTRO: Good morning.
MS. DARLA : First of all, I want to thank each and every
one of you for taking the time to visit with me in the last few days in
regards to oving forward with the 12-hole golf course.
Co ounty does need a public golf course for its taxpayers
i iti�n to First Tee. Your commitment to continue to invest the
$ ion into the golf course shows you are invested in our
community and truly care about our full-time residents as well as
tourists who visit Collier County every year.
First Tee is excited to continue to work with you as we build our
learning center next to Collier County's first 12-hole public golf
Page 33
June 27, 2023
course.
Thank you for your consideration.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is David
Bumpous.
MR. BUMPOUS: Good morning, Commissioners, staf
always a pleasure to be here with you.
I can, obviously, keep my comments pretty brief b Qbn the
actions of the Board this morning. But I do want to
Mr. Schmieding's sentiments and the appreciation that you're
doing and also as a citizen and a father. I ha h' dren who
have grown up not only learning to love golf, o e importantly,
learning the values that golf really teache , nd that's been through
the First Tee and Ms. Darling's tirelesrodayy
and work that's been
put into that program. And, quit need that in this world
and in this community more than e those values that are
taught through that program.
So thank you on be myself and on behalf of
Mr. Schmieding and the t sands of employees that reside here.
We appreciate what yoylre doing. And, quite frankly, thank you for
what you're doi or the veterans as well. I'm a son and grandson
of two vettera ank you.
CHALoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
COMNER HALL: Thanks, David.
LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
NER SAUNDERS: Well, Mr. Chairman, I'd like
to a e a motion, so we can get this on the floor for discussion, that
we direct our staff to continue the efforts to develop this 12-hole golf
course at the Golden Gate Golf Course; that they take all the steps
necessary to move this along, which includes completing the design,
completing the zoning issues, and making sure that the parcels that
Page 34
June 27, 2023
are necessary are included.
Mr. Chairman, I've been -- you know, we all have projects that
we work on, and this is one that I've been working on for a number of
years. When I got elected to the County Commission, my goal was
to help improve the Golden Gate community. That included
purchasing or acquiring their water and sewer services, creati
zoningoverlay to help improve the commercial district creat a
Y p p � g
taxing district with no tax increase to help fund needed infrastructure
to deal with flooding, and other things like that.
This is just one big piece of that puzzle, and 'king for
support from the Commission to make this a it Ii's very
Y
important to me personally, and I do appreciat ya y upport that I've
got from the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Y.o ' ome comments from
our colleagues. Commissioner HZ hen, Commissioner
McDaniel, you're on deck, sir.
COMMISSIONER HAL ank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to make now, the public may be sitting here,
why is the County pushin r another golf course? I mean, there's
80 golf courses in this ace, but there's not 80 public golf courses.
Coming he rom another place -- I've been here nine years. I
still have stic r sh for what it costs to play golf here. And it's
not just li o an just go anywhere and play where you want to
play. You to be invited. So to have a quality public course is
som at's just -- I think it's -- I think it's highly important. It's
ti r at. And it's going to be 12 holes. It's not going to be 18.
,vnd because of that, I want to encourage whoever we get to
design this place to make this place special, not to make it so hard
that nobody enjoys it, but to make it special. And I think that we can
do that. And I just -- you know, as we direct staff, I want to
encourage us not to drag this out forever and forever and forever.
Page 35
June 27, 2023
As a businessman, I say that we make some choices and get some
things moving and get some dirt moving and get some greens made
and get some kids on the course and some families on the course, and
I will be a champion of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. We -- I don ow.
Commissioner Saunders, did you make a motion, or are st
discussing all --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I made th on to get the
item on the floor for discussion, so there is a io n the floor.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All rig . ell, I'm going to
say this out loud. I'm totally in support hat we're doing with the
veterans' nursing home, totally in supp at, totally in support of
First Tee and what they do for our - r our community, totally
not in support of spending that $ i ion that was originally
appropriated for the loan to t Corp folks for this 12-hole golf
course.
I am totally in suppo -- we already own the land. I'm totally
in support of bringing t�e property forward, offering it up to a
developer for a lic golf course with a reduced rate for our
residents, tot in pport of a long-term lease. If Cindy wants a
200-year 1 ase, 'll give them a 200-year lease on the property. I
don't want to ever have to look back, and for the First Tee to
have a
u�you know, we had a budget workshop here a week or two
a Ten -and -a -half million dollars of unfunded requests that were
appropriated in that budget workshop. Granted, eight and a half of
that was one particular development or project with Water and Sewer
over west of Goodlette Road. But before we make a commitment on
the expenditure of that $7 million right now, I would prefer we set
Page 36
June 27, 2023
that aside.
We have commitments, Commissioner Saunders. You've
already made commitments with regard to the remediation, the
zoning. That needs to be done. That needed to be done when we
bought the property.
Those things need to be fulfilled, need to be kept up, but
can't support moving forward with the County constructin - ole
golf course at this time. I just -- I can't support that. AJ other
things I'm totally -- I'm totally in concert with what you'reelooking to
do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was goin s something, but
I'll hear from -- Commissioner Hall, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, yo ow, I'm listening. So
we don't -- do we have choices withhth rRrty? We don't have to
gift it? What's the options if we
COMMISSIONER McDANI I don't think we're asking
for -- I don't know. I mean --
COMMISSIONER I You mentioned the 7 million, so I
was just kind -- I was just urious that maybe --
(Simultaneou crosstalk.)
COMMIS ER SAUNDERS: Maybe I could elaborate on
that. On the acr , we are going to deed that to the federal
governme t fo e nursing home. That's an absolute requirement.
The rest o 1;roperty we will own. The golf course will be part of
the Collier ounty Parks and Recreation Department. It will be
oyfMd by Collier County.
s a Jack Nicklaus -designed course, so it will meet the
stan ards, Commissioner Hall, that you said in terms of a quality golf
course. Jack Nicklaus has several of these 12-hole golf courses.
And one of the gentlemen I spoke to that develops golf courses
indicated that he had just developed a 12-hole golf course out in
Page 37
June 27, 2023
Oregon that was hugely successful and that he knew this would be
hugely successful.
So it will be well designed. It will meet the standards that
you're talking about. It will be owned by Collier County. It's art
of our park system, but it will be operated -- assuming the Boar es
along with this, it will be operated by a professional operator, 1 l
ClubCorp. There are plenty of companies that do the same of
work. So it will be a professionally run golf course. O
And just so the Board knows -- because there w omment
that Commissioner McDaniel made that he was o �th loaning the
$7 million. This was never -- this was never oa he I that
went out and the commitment that the County a e was that the
County would pay for the development o e golf course, the
$7 million to develop a golf course., ationale for the
County paying for it, simply, is it' f course. It's our property.
It's our golf course.
And ClubCorp and BigS ,hey were going to be the
professional operator of ' with the BigShots facility. The only
thing that's changing, the y thing that's changing is there won't be
a BigShots facility.
And, quite � kly, I think we now have a better project. I
think -- havi rVessionally run golf course still designed by Jack
Nicklaus d ing the veterans' nursing home, I think we now
have a bett j ect for that.
sappointed when BigShots fell away, but as soon as I
h at there was a problem, the wheels started turning in terms of
ho d we make lemonade out of these lemons, and I think we've
done that. Moving the nursing home and developing this the way
we're looking at it I think is better for the community in the long run,
and that's why I'm moving this forward. So it was never a loan. It
was always a $7 million investment in our own parks.
June 27, 2023
And I'll tell you, we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on our
parks. I mean, I'm not sure how much we spent on the Big
Corkscrew Park. That's probably, what, a $120 million park by the
time we finished. And so this is not an unusual request.
And I, again, ask the Board for support on it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I mean, there again not
going to argue the point one way or the other. I was to it as a
loan. It was originally a subordination agreement to Corp with
regard to the lease on the property, and then we fo t that we
couldn't subordinate it, and then this came fo r Again, you
can -- this is what I -- I'm sharing with you wh was told. I'm not
making this up.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDE4S: ou did vote on the RFP
to go out that had a $7 million co t. So I understand what
you're saying. It may have been -
COMMISSIONER McD L: And I didn't --
COMMISSIONER RS: That's always been the case.
COMMISSIONER ANIEL: Just as a correction, I didn't
support the investment Q& the county money into this golf course at
all. I have sup ed the acquisition of it. I supported the
utilization of roperty for the veterans' nursing home. I
supported e 'zation for First Tee, but not the construction of the
golf course at's where I stopped.
e right-of-way that we acquired when we bought this
p� operty for 28, $29 million for the six-laning of 951. And
I -- g in, I think more fact-finding needs to be accomplished before
we make the expenditure for the construction of a golf course.
Putting the property up that we already own to a private
developer and operator, having it be part of our Parks and Rec
system, I can see that. Meeting the commitments that we needed to
Page 39
June 27, 2023
do to fulfill the remediation and things, I can see to do that.
Supporting the First Tee, all the way, I can see to do that, but not
expending the money for the golf course.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, I'm new to this game, but I kind of look from the
and kind of watch everybody and what they're doing. And o at
history, and I -- and, you know, as a county government 1e do have
responsibilities to our citizens. We provide parks. rovide
pools. And we -- you know, this county spent a 1 oney in the
20 years I've lived here on the parks we provi o r citizens.
And I look at some of the numbers at so -A o t ese parks that
we spend money on, and I don't know wh we get in return other
than just the satisfaction that we pro.vi And we can provide
them for our citizens, and we sho �, oint.
And -- but then I look at the course and I'm thinking, this is
just another arm of our Parks ecs. You know, this is
something that we provi citizens. It's something else they
can use as a family. An t ink we would make some revenue off
of this in return for a very, very smaller investment than what we've
already investecl�isome of these parks we have out there now.
I mean - a d I don't -- I sat here in a meeting a few months
back. AnI y now, Paradise Sports Park telling me the numbers
and showin the numbers and telling me how they lose money on
their ck and, you know, how we going to fix that and this and
t d I know that price tag was well over 150-some-million
do r , and it's still counting.
So I look at providing another public place for our citizens to
enjoy with their families that don't really have that big of an
investment that may make a little revenue back to the County and
using that property for, you know -- in that way. You know, I'm
June 27, 2023
kind of looking at a common sense thing. Where do I want to spend
the other money we were going to spend on something else? I think
this may be an investment. So I was just going to tell you how I feel
about it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll make a comment here. �+
I know it's no secret. I've said it at this microphone be e well
before I was a Chair, just as a newly -elected official. I_40 know
that I would have ever voted for the sports complex. I 't know if
I was sitting here I would have voted for the -- to ay er dollars
to buy the golf course, but that's ancient histo d o we're
sitting here now.
And so I've also gone on the record ing, even if I disagreed
with something that happened, you �n s prior or predated me,
it's all about the here and now. A out making it successful
because it's been decided.
I look at that piece of pro maybe more strategically or more
holistically. We could s' e end debate, you know, the -- a county
golf course and falling un Parks and Rec, but I'm looking at the
entire footprint. I look at what First Tee is bringing to the table and
how this golf coF e complements what they are already moving
forward at a ag essive positive pace. And even the veterans'
nursing ho e. ou know, this might be a small thing, but veterans
lookin ou indow and seeing a beautifully landscaped golf
cour d of maybe, you know, something different.
ivso I don't think we're putting a shovel in the ground today.
Th e' a motion to make some very definitive decisions. But I look
back on it more holistically at the entire project, and I think it's a
cohesive project with what First Tee is doing, and I support a
thousand percent what First Tee's doing, as we've all said up here.
But I think the golf course moving forward, we could have -- we
Page 41
June 27, 2023
could do some would have, could have, should haves, but what we
are right here today, I really feel strongly in support of that cohesive
course and First Tee being more of a partnership and then the
aesthetics of that footprint and what it will look like in the end when
all the ribbons are cut and everything's done. Is that going to be
huge positive for the community and really an investment?
feel it is. And so, you know, I support Commissioner Sau s
motion, you know, to move forward. We're not going ®o it in a
vacuum.
And was I disappointed that BigShots droppe Yeah, I
share in the disappointment, but you know wl ? e hadn't put a
shovel in the ground. They hadn't done anything.
So I sort of echo what's being said u ere, the positive
comments anyway, is that maybe Bing s ing, you know, hey,
we're pulling out; we're not intere aybe one step back, but I
think this is an incredible opport 't at takes 10 steps forward.
We've already passed a motio gives a bigger footprint to the
veterans' nursing home, e all support, so that was a positive.
So, you know, Big S is maybe ancient history. And that's
how business works. People are in, they're out, they're in, they're
out. And, you know, they hadn't done anything other than some
analysis. B I hink when I look at all the projects combined, and
even the a or e, you know, housing project and how all that fits
into the fo t, I think, the golf course is a major piece of the
cohesio the aesthetics and the citizen services that would be
b tNo that footprint.
you know, I certainly support it strongly and have, you
know, minimal reservations. You know, we're going to keep our eye
on the ball, and we're not here rubber stamping anything and moving
forward regardless of any concerns. So some of the concerns up
here definitely do have merit, but I think there's more opportunity
Page 42
June 27, 2023
here than significant concern at this point. So I definitely support
the motion.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I just -- if your
motion is to continue on with the expenditure of the 7 million, i
going to force me into voting against this, and I'm not against 't+i s
entirety.
y
If your motion is to move forward with the exploration and
utilization of the balance of the land for the golf cour ",N continue
on with First Tee and secure a long-term home for ee, those
sort of things, then I can totally support it. B . vestment into
the construction of the golf course, I can't supp rt.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: 1, the motion
contemplates the fact that we have fun ble to build the golf
course, and so I'm not going to ch t motion. I appreciate the
potential support, and I think it's i ant. I think it would have
been nice to have a 5-0 vote, t t doesn't always happen. And a
4-1 vote on this -- it sou we've got good support for this -- is
okay by me. But I can't c ange the motion to remove the fact that
we have $7 million set aside for this project. That's part of the
motion is to morward with this project. So, no, I'm not going to
change the m tion.
CHAI LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COM IONER McDANIEL: My final comment is, again,
weir eginning stages of our budget process. We have 10 and
a ftV ion dollars of unfunded requests for Parks and Rec, for
m t ance, for zoning, for things that are very, very necessary for
our community. And until -- until those things are actually taken
care of in a satisfactory manner, I think it's prudent for us to explore
the utilization of this property as a golf course, putting it up for
someone else to develop it and manage it and operate it. And I think
Page 43
June 27, 2023
you -- well, anyway, that's what I would prefer we do. So I can't
support it if it's continuing with that expenditure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What's the possibilities of
public/private partnership with somebody privately joining in?
guess I understood it -- I understand it now. I thought the 7 Tl
was the value of the land that we were allowing for the golf rse.
Now I understand that it's the -- 7 million is in addition h land to
actually construct it.
If we -- in staff direction, is there a possibilit e could do
private/public partnership where somebody th r to y welcomes
in and puts in, you know, a portion -- a small p rt on, a large portion,
or whatever portion, towards that 7 millio o construct the golf
course? I don't know how that deal w rk, but I'm just asking
the question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: o missioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SA S: I think that the problem
is -- and we -- just for a of the history, we did a request for
proposals where we aske eveloper to come in and build a golf
course. It would be owne by the County, but a developer would
come in and pay for it and build it.
We got k5l,responses. ClubCorp was one of the responses.
And befor we uld ink any deal with them, they said, no, we can't
do this. 't make a golf course work where we have to build
the g se and operate it but also give a discount to county
re f 40 or 50 percent. The numbers will not work.
rolling the clock forward -- so we did -- we did a second
request for proposals. In the second request for proposals, we said,
okay, the County will build the golf course, pay for the $7 million to
build the golf course. The County will own the golf course and will
have it operated by ClubCorp or whoever bids. ClubCorp bid on it,
June 27, 2023
and they were proceeding.
They did an analysis of the course, and they are determined that
this course would be very profitable if operated properly but only if
the County continued to fund the construction of the course.
Because you put that 7 or $8 million into the construction cost, aS,,
then you have a 50 or 40 percent discount for county resident ,fit+
numbers don't work for a private developer.
So that's why we came back and said, okay, the Co Owill pay
for the course. We'll build -- we'll have it professio esigned,
we'll pay for the construction of it, and we'll have rator, and
we'll share in the revenue.
So to answer your question, I think that, h vi g some sort of a
sharing, might very well be possible, but in -- I think we need to
just move this on today. I know th4t go to a private
owner -- a private developer and s , we want you to build a
golf course. We want to own the o course. The County will own
the golf course, but we want t pay for it, and, oh, by the way,
we want our residents to 0 percent reduction in the cost for
playing golf, because the bers won't work.
So in order for this to work, to have a quality golf course,
professionally run, we're going to have to pay for the golf course.
The other alt tive is to simply sell the land and have a private
developer om and build a golf course, but it won't be a county
golf course there won't be reduced rates for First Tee and for
coun r nts, because it just simply doesn't work.
that's why I'm asking the Board to move forward with what
we a already planned. We have a better project now, one that I
think all of us will be very proud of when we start breaking ground
on some of these things, the workforce housing, the veterans thing,
the golf course. These are going to all be tremendous assets.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I'm not going to vote
for the motion, and I want you to hear me. Cindy, I'm looking at
you. I'm not in opposition or support of First Tee.
I think there are alternatives that can, in fact, be done. I don't
know that we have to build a 12- or a 9-hole golf course. I thin e
could build a really nice practice facility for the kids to play o e
could build three holes if we're going to do something diffe a Par
3, a Par 4, and a Par 5, and the kids can still learn all the cts of
golf and do what they need to do, and we don't need nd the
money that we have with -- at this particular point ' e.
Again, if a study's done, a public/private ship is done, we
already own the land, we maneuver things aro r to e able to
facilitate the utilization of the land with a veloper to build a golf
course, 9 or 12 or anything -- sometki those lines, then we
can account for it at that time.
But today the expenditure of e funds were -- especially
while we're in the infancy sta o the establishment of this new
budget where we've alre told that we're 10 and a half million
dollars shy of unfunded r Vsts -- and I'm sure there's probably more
in the corners, as Leo Opkes used to like to say -- I can't support
the -- I can't sup the motion.
CHAIRYAfN oCASTRO: Listen, I don't want to open up a
can of wo s , but I'm going to make a couple of statements.
I look is as not an expense but more of an investment, and it
remi f affordable housing discussions that we've had up here.
Wow. I've got a twin. I just heard myself.
It reminds me of some of the affordable housing discussions
we've had up here where -- like, for instance, on this piece of
property, one of the reasons why the affordable housing building that
is going to be almost 400 units -- if I'm correct, 374 -- the reason why
it's able to be 100 percent affordable, which is almost unheard of, is
June 27, 2023
because the County owns the land and is donating it or, you know,
we're utilizing that county investment.
We've got philanthropic organizations like the Collier
Community Foundation and others who are, you know, pledgin
10 million or more money. So then you have a developer that c es
in that doesn't have that expense and is able to, then, put eve
they have into the final piece and, you know, be able to aff b y do
it. As developers tell us all the time, you know, thf're
not -for -profit, so they're not going to build somethioing to
be a huge loss. They're going to walk away.
And that's why this truly will be one of t ee only,
100 percent affordable housing pieces. I mea t go when
we were here and we were voting on The ve antizens
were saying, oh, well, we'd accept 1�00 affordable housing,
although I respected their opinion,&111r
son why that's not realistic
is no contractor can come in and everything on their own and
make it 100 percent affordabl d if a contractor says they can do
that, you're not going to way it looks.
And so, you know, p of our leadership to protect that
community was to say,,rea , that's a great idea, but maybe hidden
within that, you w, make it 100 percent affordable, is then the
contractor w a and you get nothing, and then you preserve
that undev lop property.
Not to off track, but here I really look at this as, like I said in
the b i is, it allows us to attract something that is going to be a
h ntage to the community. It's going to be complementary
to irs Tee, and it's more of a cohesive strategic piece of a larger
parcel of land.
So I think if we, you know, back off this late in the game and
sort of, you know, start to move backwards, I think in the end we get
a whole lot of nothing. I don't think you're going to attract, like you
Page 47
June 27, 2023
said, a lot of interest when we ask somebody to come in and, you
know, build it all from scratch, absorb all the cost, and then, oh, by
the way, here's all the extra we want with it. You're going to get a
whole lot of nothing.
So, I mean, not to be disrespectful to anybody up here, but, u
know, if you're concerned about spending money that is an
investment or not, I mean, I think this $7 million is a much 6� er
investment for our community than the 15 million we great
Wolf Lodge, which I voted against.
So I think it does all matter. And if you're make
cohesive votes up here, you know, you've got m e, ou know,
uniform votes.
And I think this gives way back m9--you
e community. And
I'm not saying Great Wolf Lodge isi'tbe great and
wonderful and everything. I just ' ith giving them a
$15 million Christmas gift which a know, I know
sometimes it's different colors ney, but if you're going to throw
up the unfunded list -- a ect what you're saying, but I think
nobody up here is going t t that unfunded list go unfunded. You
know, we already haves very aggressive approach to figure out what
to do.
But trad' the,unfunded list for the golf course and sort of
connectin tho wo dots is, I think, is a bit unfair because then, like
I said I woo it here and say, wow, maybe we could have used
y
15 million for the unfunded list instead of helping to build Great
W9olf,%oldge, which certainly could afford building their own facility.
t that said, I have no reservations. I think this is a cohesive
project that helps First Tee continue to move forward, and they're
bringing a lot to the table. I think backing off now sends the wrong
signal to our community, to our Parks and Rec leadership, and to all
the folks that are putting pieces onto this tract of land to make it
June 27, 2023
collectively a hugely successful, aesthetically pleasing, wonderful
addition to our community.
So there will always be parts and pieces that maybe
our -- require analysis, but I feel like, you know, we'll be doing all
those things. So I look at it as an investment, and we certainly e
spent money in areas of this county that I think gave us much f
a -- you know, much less of a return on investment, you kn to our
citizens than this, and I think this one is a very high retu o
investment if done properly, and we will ensure that ' So I do
support it.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just as n'aside
Commissioner Kowal, you know, we've IT4 enormous overruns on
Paradise Coast, but that instrument Iva,C,Wed with a tax increase
for the TDT, the tourist developm t�, and funded that -- the
majority of that debt. There wa propriation for $2 million out
of ad valorem for the upkeep aintenance, and we've had
overruns on that. I'm nX11king away from those things.
But I'm just -- and, ag
, you know, you brought in the Great
t Wolf investment, lk abou investments with a three-year payback, if
the economy ho and everything goes, and an eight -year return of
that $15 mill' if t ey file bankruptcy and we -- because we always
get our ad alo tax collection. That always comes to the County.
And it's an -year return in the event that that changes.
een consistent here. I haven't supported the
c on of this golf course. Once that moved into the process,
th hen I stopped. Love First Tee. Think they do an amazing
job.'
I'm offering a thought. Rezone the property, the balance of this
piece of property, and put it up for our small businesses on long-term
leases, and do a flex space industrial park on that corner in and
June 27, 2023
around those facilities to support small business. That's -- there are
other avenues that this property could, in fact, be utilized for.
Was I grabbing onto an unfunded request list that just happened
recently in our history? Yes, but there are a lot of other things that
could be done with this piece of property.
I was totally happy with the housing. I was totally happ
the veterans' nursing home. I was totally happy with the FTee
facilities. I actually said off record, you know, we cou a the
balance of that into a very nice dog park and never to ck and not
have the -- not have the expenses associated with ' . zone it for
flex space -- and, again, I can -- I'm counting. c see where we're
at. Go ahead and call for the vote, and I'll be i t.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll just ke a comment about -- I
agree with you 100 percent on Greal he return of
investment. My position from th' p here during that time
when we voted was they were goi build it anyway, and so that
was just my position. I didn' they needed a gift. And I think
if they were going to bui ay, we would get all that return on
investment without -- wit t having to give them 15 million to
prime the pump.
But we're no ere to debate Great Wolf Lodge, but I wanted to
make that cla ation. You're 100 percent right. It's going to bring
money int the mmunity and jobs and all that, but the reality is it
brings that dless of, you know, giving them a gift to convince
them here when they certainly were cited to have this
low 11 in our lap. But having said that -- I just wanted to say
'Commissioner Kowal.
No. We're not, but I just wanted to say that. Yeah, okay. End
of discussion. Yeah, it's antient history.
Commissioner Kowal.
Page 50
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. Well,
since I was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I did get the last word.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You both pointed out there, I
just -- yeah, I just want to compare apples and oranges here. Yo
know, the sports park is one thing, but the thing with the spo
is you have to recruit people to use that sports park. That's way
it's designed. That's the way it's set up. We have to h
management companies, you have people out there w' elers,
bring people in to use it from all around the count g the
sporting events for youth and stuff like that. a c iting thing to
get the return on our investment. You know t e d saying, you
build it, they will come. If you build an ellent golf course that is
cheap for our residents to use, you qo ' o recruit them.
COMMISSIONER SAUND hat's true.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL. ey will come, and they will
spend their time, they will spe t it money there, and they will
enjoy it. And it's a total i ent investment, I think, on our
money, you know. You pared apples and oranges. I don't think
you can compare them.
But for the was already under the assumption that 7 million
was already s si for it, so I didn't think about that even being
offset to t un ded things we talked about the other day because I
felt -- I alr assumed that this was already a done deal. And now
I'm f ut we're going to kind of rehash it.
you know, I think -- I look at the investment on return, and
it the 7 million, to me, would be a lot better, you know, than
wha we've done in the past. That's all I'm trying to say, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I also think -- I'm glad you read
that letter from the Arthrex founder -- from Reinhold. He sent it to
all of us -- because I think he reminded us that it's not just the
Page 51
June 27, 2023
7 million we're spending, but by investing that money and
committing it, it's making his efforts and those of his team and Cindy
and everybody feel really secure that the direction they're going to
raise -- they're going, which is raising even millions on top of that, is
critical, that they believe a cohesive golf course as a neighbor is
requirement.
And I think -- and I agree with it, and so I think this is 2p0d
return on our investment, because if we pledge the 7 mi i®n which
has already been, you know, talked about and pledge - d maybe
it's not set in stone or whatnot, or maybe it's about -- we also,
then, guarantee that First Tee feels like they h li partner, they
have somebodythat's committed to that foot �nd the are
p � Y
bringing us unbelievable not only dollars, t itrwas -- you know,
Commissioner Saunders and I atten4e ing at Arthrex which
had to do with First Tee and how i� ive it was and how
complimentary they were of the c,nitment of the County and how
aggressively they're working g in, you know, I don't want to
say matching funds, but ' i of dollars to collectively put on that
footprint to make it somet g we can all be proud of, and I would
hate to see that be 'n jeopardy, and so would Reinhold, and that's why
he sent us, you w, that note. And I don't think he needed to
remind us of b t it was a good reminder.
Com issi r Saunders.
COM IONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I will close
with ' uple quick comments. And we're talking about
i t. First Tee has raised north of $6 million. Their goal is
to 10. They want to have a fund available to fund all of their
operations. By the time they're finished, they're going to be putting a
6 or $7 million, $8 million building on this property. That will be
the best First Tee anywhere in the country.
So what we're building here is really something that all of us
Page 52
June 27, 2023
will be proud of. It may be several years before we start breaking
ground or cutting ribbons and seeing kids playing golf, but this is one
of those legacy types of things that we're building here. And so I'm
going to ask the Board for a positive vote. We have a motion on the
floor. I'm not sure if it's been seconded.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If not, I'd like for aond
and call for the vote, Mr. Chairman. O
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a on the
floor. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
y. I ha e CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oka motion and a
y
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ay
COMMISSIONER KOWAL %rye.
COMMISSIONER SA S: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoC Opposed?
COMMISSIONERP
DANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes 4-1.
County Ma er.
Item #7 �r
PUMENTSON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
C TOR FUTURE AGENDA
'MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner, that brings us to Item 7,
public comments on general topics not on the current or future
agenda.
MR. MILLER: We have two registered speakers,
Page 53
June 27, 2023
Mr. Chairman. Your first speaker is George Abreau, and he will be
followed by Jackie Keay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Good morning, sir.
MR. ABREAU: Good morning, sir. George Abreau from the
office of Commissioner Simpson, Florida Department of Agricu e
and Consumer Services. I'm your regional director, boots o t
grounds, anything that you -all need. I've been in Immokal
working this area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're a lot be&, l king in
person than you were when I spoke to you on the
MR. ABREAU: I don't like Zoom. I' 1 efson person.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How a ou doing, my
friend?
MR. ABREAU: Great, sir. jh
COMMISSIONER McDANI �, orgive me.
MR. ABREAU: Congratula o on the veterans' affairs. It's
something important to me. with (unintelligible) --
THE COURT REP I'm sorry. What? You're talking
so fast I can't understand
MR. ABREAU: �m sorry. That's my problem. I get nervous
when I talk in p 'c.
I work th - I volunteer also at the home center reserve
base. Agin, preciate what you -all are doing with the veteran
affairs.
nted to personally introduce myself. I'm here to serve
y e office. Anything you -all need, please let me know. I
le ome cards with the gentleman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I spoke with -- I spoke with
Jorge last month or so ago, and it was -- it was over a Zoom. And if
I'd a known you were coming, I'd a baked a cake today.
Page 54
June 27, 2023
We actually set up an agenda item and had a presentation and
everything. I truly appreciate everything the commissioner's doing
for our community, the division of the state into the individual
districts with the management process. The ag commissioner does
an enormous amount for our community, and I really, really watNoe
thank you for being here this morning. I didn't know you we
coming, to be honest with you. tz�
MR. ABREAU: Thank you. And, again, my off()based
out of Homestead, but I cover 10 counties. My offic lso in my
car. So wherever I need to be, I will be there. I 5:00 this
morning just to enjoy the drive up here. So, in, a k you all,
and I'm going to visit some constituents now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: seeing you in person.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairmarn y 1 registered speaker for
Item 7 is Jackie Keay.
MS. KEAY: Hello again.
I've had the benefit of leuently.
Germany for 17 years. Not only
that, I speak the languag And our family, we were a
homeschool family. We slept, drank, we did everything that was
related to history.
And part of my ex-husband's hobby was he worked with an
organization 1 ed History Flight, and they -- we dug out second
world war la n -- planes as well as crews from the second world
war.
But t enefit of that was speaking to many community
members and many eyewitnesses about the war, about Naziism, as
well as the impact of war to them.
And, you know, my -- I took my children to the Dachau
Concentration Camp. It did not traumatize them. It made them
even more outspoken about hate and racism.
And my mother-in-law and her siblings were Hitler youth. So I
Page 55
June 27, 2023
got a firsthand perspective of Naziism, who Hitler was, and how that
impacted that country.
The thing that concerns me most is, as I look at our country,
especially the State of Florida and I see Nazi flags as well as Nazis
who are indoctrinating other Americans along that line of the Na
ideology, that is a really big concern for me. And I feel like
wonderful thing about history is it teaches us lessons thatw411,
supposed to learn from.
And one of my favorite quotes, those who are i t of their
history are doomed to repeat it. And my concern AV& look across
our country, the Nazi ideology of hate, racis 'm ei g it here, and
that really is a concern for me.
One of the things that we have to ke 'n ind is Naziism
destroyed Germany, and it caused Gee be conquered and
divided up. So if we insist on go'o, n this path, we have to
really think ahead to see what th equences will be and how it's
going to impact our country a e as the world.
It doesn't make sen t of all, hate doesn't make sense to
me. If you really know you would know that I'm one of the
most loving, vivacious, you know, energetic people you'll ever meet.
So love is stron than hate. Yes, hate is a strong emotion, but love
does and it c on er hate.
So I ou ve to see a country in which we teach our children
to love oth ople even if we disagree with them. Even if we may
not g with them, there's no reason to hate, because hate is so
dew e. So thank you all very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. We are about
to take a court reporter break. I just wanted to make one statement,
but the young lady isn't here. Erin Dever is our local representative
who represents Senator Scott, and I wish she was here in the back
because I wanted to give her a shout -out because I think, you know,
Page 56
June 27, 2023
recognition and giving credit where credit is due is important. You
know, often we don't hear it enough. When people are working hard
to make sure that our toilets flush and our lights turn on and all that,
we sort of take it for granted.
But I just wanted to say -- and hopefully she's maybe watch
in her office downstairs. I had a major issue with a constitue
was at the federal level that I thought was impossible to fix
reached out to her, and I just wanted to tell her publicly her
she's here or not, that on a Sunday night, not only di nswer me
back instantly, but she and Senator Scott's office and
basically moved a mountain for a constituent e Hier County
that needed federal -level help that was well ab our pay grade, and
within 24 hours that citizen got a result.
And it was -- you know, the youn rin Dever who I was
able to get ahold of instantaneousl mediately set wheels into
motion to help, you know, one of onstituents that had a very
significant problem that need o ection, and she did.
So she was sitting b e for, you know, most of this
meeting and I think mayb st walked out. But, Erin, if you're
listening, can't thank yop enough, and the citizen that you helped is
extremely grateful So I'll just leave it at that.
Okay. 'll take a break. We'll come back at 10:45.
(A br'ef r s was had from 10:31 a.m. to 10:45 12.m.)
MS. RSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
AN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll get started.
remind everybody to put your cell phones on silent. Now
we oing to get into the meat of some discussions and appreciate it.
Okay. County Manager.
Item #9A
Page 57
June 27, 2023
ORDINANCE 2023-34: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE
TREE FARM MIXED -USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
(MPUD) TO ADD 120 DWELLING UNITS FOR A TOTAL OF 580
DWELLING UNITS (INCLUDING 58 LOW-INCOME UNITS ,
SUBJECT TO AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DENSITY BO
AGREEMENT, ON 58.84± ACRES LOCATED AT THE
NORTHWEST CORNER OF COLLIER BOULEVARD ANl
IMMOKALEE ROAD, IN SECTION 22, TOWNSHIP 38, RANGE
26, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA [PL20220004279] - MOTION
TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SF
f"0�TDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL — ADOPTEI
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner , e'e starting with
advertised public hearings, Item 91 9A tem requires that ex
parte disclosure be provided by c on members, and all
participants are required to be swo
This is a recommendatioprove an ordinance amending the
Tree Farm Mixed -Use Pla;80
6Wnit Development to add 120
dwelling units for a total 0 dwelling units, including 58
low-income units subject to an affordable housing density bonus
agreement on 5 4plus-or-minus acres located at the northwest
corner of Col 'e Boulevard and Immokalee Road in Section 22,
Township 8, ge 26, Collier County, Florida.
If all a ipants could stand to be sworn in, please.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
test, ,% you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
bu truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:
you have any disclosures for 9A?
ff-
Okay. Commissioner Kowal, do
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER KOWAL:
Yes, Chairman. I have
meetings and emails for 9A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. I have meetings and
correspondence and emails in reference, actually, to 9A and 9B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hal.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Meetings, correspondenc ,
emails. s 0
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissi '! cDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have meotinand emails
on 9A. Are we doing 9B as well or just --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you wan e to --
MS. PATTERSON: Just 9A. A
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yee
MS. PATTERSON: We'll akte
COMMISSIONER McD
meetings, correspondence, an
MS. PATTERSON:
the applicant.
CHAIRMAN LoCAS RO:
0
K"next.
Okay. And for 9A, I have
Commissioners, we'll begin with
Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good morning. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich Ai keharlf of the applicant.
I have,.a loNpf people here with me today that can answer any
questions I o answer.
Wtion is really kind of a joint venture between Habitat for
and White/Peterman. Lisa Lefkow and Mara Foley are
m Habitat. Matt Chambers is here from White/Peterman.
Chris Scott's the planner from Peninsula Engineering, and Dan
Waters is the engineer from Peninsula Engineering, and
Mr. Trebilcock is our transportation consultant.
I'm going to do just an overview of the project, and then if you
Page 59
June 27, 2023
have specific questions of the team, we're happy to answer them.
As I said, this is a -- this is a joint venture between Habitat and
White/Peterman. It affects this portion of the Tree Farm PUD which
is a mixed -use PUD that allows both commercial and residential
development.
The intention is to build a market -rate apartment comple
well as housing to be provided by Habitat for Humanity, an 1 show
you that master plan in a moment. O
The PUD was originally approved in 2007. As tioned,
there's a commercial piece -- I don't see the pointe ; t e it is -- this
is the commercial piece right here, this is a m amily piece
right here, and then this is the intended additio al space for the
development.
We're increasing the already-appr 0 dwelling units to 580
dwelling units. We are not requesting, y changes to the already
approved 580 p.m. peak -hour tw external trips as part of this
project.
So the previous PUed the impacts of 580 p.m.
peak -hour two-way trips, and this amendment is honoring and living
with that same traffic impact that was originally approved as part of
this project.
With th er ere improvements that were -- there was some
right-of-w a the eastern portion of the project and the southern
portion of oject that was provided to the County, some of which
we didget any impact fee credits, so it was a donation.
In Ndition, there was an agreement related to the intersection of
Co _ Boulevard and Immokalee Road for intersection
improvements, and we paid our fair share of those intersection
improvements based upon the 580 p.m. peak -hour trips. So this
project has, I think, taken care of the impacts of the 580 p.m.
peak -hour trips as part of the prior approvals.
June 27, 2023
We are asking for two deviations. One relates to signs, and the
other deviation relates to how we're going to provide the affordable
units, which I'll point out. Typically, you intermix the affordable
units within the specific building, but since we have two different
product types, one is a for sale and one is a rental, we are asking I
a
deviation to be able to provide the for -sale project separate fr
market -rate apartment complex.
-r&
The conceptual layout is -- I keep losing the cursor These are
the market -rate apartments right here, and these are 'dto be the
two-story affordable housing units around the peri So we go
from, you know, lower to higher as you get cl r h extension of
Collier Boulevard.
Our access is -- we have access here d access up here for both
projects. And we have committed 10 or our obviously
site -related improvements along t @ sion of Collier Boulevard,
which we're required to do and ob ed to do.
We worked with our nei o to the west, Esplanade Golf and
Country Club, to address s they had with regard to buffers
and what they would see in our project. I believe they're here to
speak in regard to the enhanced buffers, and I believe they -- and they
spoke in favor o e project at the Planning Commission, and I
anticipate the ill eak in favor of the project here.
So w ha nhanced buffers along our western boundary to
address co s that were raised by Esplanade, and we provided
them i htlines to show them that essentially there's really no
i their view from -- due to the enhanced buffers that we're
pr o ing.
I already mentioned the deviation regarding the affordable
housing, and that's to allow for the for -sale product to be around the
perimeter and then the market -rate apartments to be separate from
each other.
Page 61
June 27, 2023
And then, finally, we have a deviation regarding the sign for the
project, which would be in this location right here.
Your staff was recommending approval, or is recommending
approval. The Planning Commission is recommending approval.
And this is one of the very few projects where you've seen that fie
come through with the actual existing affordable housing den i
bonus program that's in your Land Development Code and natrix
that currently exists for that. As your staff pointed out lonatrix
does work for projects like this where you basically
not -for -profit organization providing the affordabl ing aspect.
So this is -- this is a market -rate afforda o n project with
a significant portion of affordable housing uni
And with that, we'll open it up to an es ions you have
regarding the specifics of the project, s all.
COMMISSIONER SAUND r. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:Yutely, Commissioner
Saunders.
COMMISSIONERe*n!t
S: Just one quick question.
You said it, I'm sure, bur it. The number of affordable
units?
MR. YOV OVICH: I forgot the number.
UNIDE 'hD
FI
NSPEAKER: Fifty-eight.
MR. YO OVICH: Sixty-eight.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Fifty-six.
OVANOVICH: Sixty-eight -- fifty-eight. Fifty-eight,
s
MMIS SIONER SAUNDERS: Somewhere between 58 and
68?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Fifty-eight. Sorry. I don't want to
misspeak. I've done that one other time. So it's 58.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Fifty-eight units. And that's
Page 62
June 27, 2023
out of the 120?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, we all got a lot of
emails on this project for and against, you know. And the ones it
were for were all very much similar, supporting Habitat for ty
and all the things that are sort of -- you might think are sort
no-brainers; they definitely are to me. O
The ones against -- because, I mean, I won't clai now
every single nuance and moving part of this proje 'm really
listening with a keen ear. But the ones that inst were all a
very similar topic, and it was -- and I'm sure e y ody saw those, so
chime in if I'm missing something.
But it brought up, you know, traf h you've addressed,
and some other things. You knovd� I' aid here before, I don't think
any construction project has ever to this room that didn't have
opposition, you know, and so es the opposition is just, don't
build it, you know. We' rowded as it is. You know, stop
ruining our county, and it not really a great defense, you know.
But it doesn't all on deaf ears of any of us when citizens have
concerns about Nansis?
or they -- they're asking questions on did we
do proper tra Has the County done everything across
the Board o a er, you know, those concerns?
And s imes citizens think none of that's been done, and then
in this 14p, usually it's Mr. Bosi who we call to the podium, and
t e says, well, nothing could be further from the truth. You
kn e've done everything. And it still not might not be favorable
to citizens who just don't want anything built. But the reality is the
things that needed to be done to make sure it would fit on a piece of
property owned by a landowner actually have been done.
So I guess the question I would ask -- and I like hearing it from
Page 63
June 27, 2023
Mr. Bosi because I look at him as, you know, he's on our county
staff, he's an unbiased, you know, person. So I know if I ask the
applicant -- and I'm not saying you would steer the thing.
But, Mr. Bosi, would you mind just taking the podium and 'ust
giving us a little bit of -- and I'm sure you saw a lot those emails
well, but if you could, you know, clarify for the record some
details that were in there where citizens, you know, brough and
concerns they felt had a lot of merit -- but at least in the �sis I had
and from our conversations that I had with you -- but e record,
there were quite a few details in there that people creaming
from the mountaintops that actually didn't see o d water, and
maybe just because they weren't informed of t tire process that
has happened on this, you know, parcel o nd and on this project.
So what can you tell us in rebulta s, or in clarification of
those who sent us a lot of emails pport of what we
are -- what is being proposed?
MR. BOSI: Sure, Chair e Bosi, Planning and Zoning
Director.
First, let me say that h one of the divisions and departments
that review entitle ent�ohave signed off, specifically Stormwater and
Transportation. the applicant has indicated, the PUD had an
existing 580 . . p -hour trip cap limitation. Those are not -- that
is not bein r sed to be increased, so that really does -- they're
adding use y're adding 120 additional residential uses, but
they' king for additional traffic. I think that has a real
si bearing in terms of what the ask is.
t, more importantly, what the ask is going to give is those 58
units that Mr. Yovanovich identified. Those 58 units are at
80 percent of AMI or below. So it's a significant yield in terms of
providing for attainable housing that we know is in desperate need
within this county but, more particularly, the location.
June 27, 2023
One of the things that I always fall back upon is what does our
Future Land Use Map say for this particular project? What does our
Future Land Use Element say about this project?
Well, the location of this project is an activity center. That's
where we allow the highest density of residential use. That's w e
we allow the highest density of commercial use, and someti �r
activity centers we also allow some light industrial. So it's ere
you would expect the highest intensity. O
So this type of a project is what anyone who pur d within
that area could have and should have expected to in this
general vicinity.
Another thing that we do recognize, that t er was a number of
economic opportunities that are in close p imity to this project.
When you add 58 attainable workfoic g units to that -- to that
location, what we do, and whZl!
e'1 ys trying to do by our
Growth Management Plan, is Sing to reduce trip lengths.
We always say, as you g ou're going to have more traffic
because you have more hat's -- that's just -- that's a
constant. But what you c do when you have congestion is you
bring the goods an services, you bring the economic opportunities
closer in proximify to where people live. So when you're spending
three -- whe 're spending 10 minutes because you only have to
go two mi s t t your goods and services or two miles to get to
your job, it uch different experience than if you're traveling 10
to 15 iles or minutes to be able to reach your destination.
phis is part of this overall strategy of what we're trying to do
is housing opportunities, job employment opportunities, and
goo s and service opportunities in much closer proximity. And
staff s perspective is we feel that we've done this, and the applicant is
doing that with this proposal. Like we said, we are supporting the
two deviations that are being suggested related to -- related to the
June 27, 2023
PUD. And any other questions that maybe I -- that I didn't address
that I could answer for you?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got commissioners lit up here.
Commissioner Saunders and then Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairm
I do have a couple questions for Mr. Bosi. �+
As you said, Mr. Chairman, we received a lot of corre c ence
in opposition to this. Most of the folks that are in oppo i 'o to this
live in The Quarry community. And I've spent a lot e with
those folks, and their concern is traffic. That is p the
number -one issue for them as well as for othe e ents along
Immokalee Road.
So a couple questions in reference to is particular parcel.
We're adding 120 dwelling units, ar�d and the dialogue about
the 58, the benefit of those afford, sing units. I want to talk
about what could go there if we o this, because a lot of folks
don't really fully understand s f the alternatives. This is a fairly
limited project, but what if we turn this down, as an example,
what could go there?
We have the Live Joocal Act, and that's Senator Passidomo's act.
It's a great piece legislation. And my understanding is that this
18.7 acres is en y zoned commercial or some mixed -use. And
so my que tion I believe that this developer could apply directly to
staff under ive Local Act and develop a whole lot more units
with percent of them being -- having to be affordable in order
to h more market rate.
n you elaborate on that? Because I want people in the -- that
are opposed to this to understand, yeah, we're going to create some
traffic here, maybe less than what would have been under the original
proposals, but much less than what could occur if we say no to a
developer and they look to other legislation that's pending now.
1 ••
June 27, 2023
MR. BOSI: Yeah. Commissioner Saunders, you're correct.
This is a mixed -use PUD. The back two-thirds are residential where
they're proposing is designated for residential, but that front
18.6 acres is mixed -use commercial. If they chose to, they could
come and submit an application and request 91.77 units per acre.
That's the highest residential density that we allow within the ,
and that's what the statute says that they are entitled to. T e also
entitled to the highest allowed height within one mile of e roject
that the -- we believe that the -- that height is somew round four
to five stories.
So what they could do is a much more in s o.ect within the
commercially designated, mixed -use designate a ea of the PUD
without a public hearing, just straight hav' to satisfy the Site
Development Plan process as an altj that was their
individual choice.
So what -- and one thing th t want to point out, I think the
applicant pointed out, this is o o hose few programs where -- or
few projects where they ally utilizing our existing affordable
housing density bonus pro m. Most of the time, they -- the choice
from the private development side has been to seek a Growth
Management P1 mendment to raise the density. What they're
utilizing is th e ist g affordable housing density bonus program to
provide fo it.
So the orking within the lines that we've -- that we've long
established or how to raise density. But, yes, if they chose to on
that 18.6 acres on the frontage, they could seek a much higher density
froll ,ge than what we're providing for.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Now, could they still do that
under the -- under of the Live Local Act? That's really a question, I
guess, for Mr. Yovanovich, in terms of that 18-acre parcel.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. I did have the opportunity to
Page 67
June 27, 2023
speak to the author of the Live Local Act. And I asked the question,
if I'm in a mixed -use PUD, can I take advantage of Live Local even
on the portions that are designated residential because it's within a
mixed -use PUD? And the answer I got back is yes.
So we could, on just the yellow piece, come in with a Site
Development Plan at the 91 point whatever number that
was -- actually, it won't fit, but at a much higher density tha*hat
we're requesting to put on that site and probably -- probamy Nigher
than we're requesting, and it would be an administrative approval.
We wouldn't have to do the enhanced buffers. W Id blow past
the trip cap that's already existing in the PUD - n er the Live
Local Act, we could do that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: rig t. I appreciate it,
because I just wanted the folks in Tte o understand that if
this fails, then there are other alte N that could be much more
attractive to a developer but much e attractive to the overall
community.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONEI�McDANIEL: As is usually the case, I may
be asking the sad question but just a different way. Commissioner
Saunders say'n�a lot more eloquently than I do.
g q Y
For c ri 1 ion purposes, we're not asking for a trip increase on
the already ent cap, but we are asking for an extra 120 units.
How t equate to not more trips?
NWYOVANOVICH: Well, since we're adding that use, we
are*Viously going to take -- not build as much of the other
authorized uses within the PUD.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That were already included in
the original PUD?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Analysis, yes.
1 •i
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't see any other
questions up here just yet.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We need a motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Do we have a motionz*,,,,
approve? �+
COMMISSIONER HALL: So moved. 'V
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a mo .010
approve. Do I have a second?
MS. PATTERSON: Troy?
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, sorry for the o ti e today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do we have a lic comments?
MR. MILLER: I do have a register s Baker on this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go 0 ir.
MR. MILLER: Kathleen SfArl*. 6,
MS. SHARPE: Good mornii�&. I'm Kathleen Sharpe, and I am
a board director at Esplanade abuts -- as you've seen in the
photo exhibits today, we t e north and west side of this
proj ect.
We reached o t to..*tar"t a dialogue with Habitat last fall to find
out what their p were for this project, and we also partnered with
The Quarry, e wi White/Peterman as well to work through our
concerns. Th ere very open to listening to our concerns
regarding . y, buffer, traffic. We actually also had a meeting
with &ioner Saunders and his staff in March to work through
ozomverns.
Ve developers have brought forth a plan that does meet our
concerns regarding the buffers and improvements, and at this time we
do support the project.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:
Okay. Thank you. So am I
correct that we had a motion and second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Motion stands, yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Troy, nothing else?
MR. MILLER: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL:
I've of a motion a g �+
O
Aye. AN
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oppos
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: s unanimously.
MR. YOVANOVICH:
CHAIRMAN LoCASTR,&Nhank you.
Item #9B
ORDINANCE 2023-35: DENY AN ORDINANCE REZONING
PROPERTY RONNCOMMERCIAL INTERMEDIATE DISTRICT
(C-3) TO EAN
Y COMMERCIAL DISTRICT (C-5), SUBJECT TO
CONDITI , FOR A SELF -STORAGE FACILITY AND
GENE OMMERCIAL DISTRICT (C-4) USES ON +/-5.98
A )VOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF TAMIAMI TRAIL
E (US 41) JUST EAST OF COLLIER BOULEVARD (CR 951),
ONNOON OTS 2 AND 3 OF INLAND VILLAGE SUBDIVISION, IN
SECTION 3, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, IN
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA (RZ-PL20210002658) - MOTION
Page 70
June 27, 2023
TO APPROVE WITH CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL — ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: 9B. This item requires ex parte
disclosure be provided by the commission members, and all
participants are required to be sworn in.
This is a recommendation to deny an ordinance rezoni4
property from commercial intermediate district C-3, to hefwy
commercial district C-5, subject to conditions for a s ,orage
facility and general commercial district C-4 uses o -or-minus
5.98 acres located on the south side of Tamia ' 'East just east of
Collier Boulevard on Lots 2 and 3 of Inland V a e ubdivision in
Section 3, Township 51 South, Range 26 st, in Collier County,
Florida.
Let's have everyone stand to
THE COURT REPORTER: �J) you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will tFru
th, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSOl*0. hair, ex parte.
CHAIRM Adi
CASTRO: Start with Commissioner Kowal.
Do you havelosures for 913?
COISWNER KOWAL: Yes, I do have ex parte. It's
meetin s,
A"UWAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
--�OMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The same. meetings and
emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have a meeting on 9B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just meetings and calls.
Page 71
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I had meetings and
emails for 9B.
Okay. Proceed.
MR. MULHERE: Thank you. For the record, Bob Mulhere,
here on behalf of the applicant. N
With me I also have Ellen Summers from my office, wh '
certified planner. Felix Pardo is an architect, excuse me, r' over
there and --working on the project as well. Jim Banks ur
transportation plan, but it's -- Jim is not able to atten it's a very
low traffic generator, so I thought we'd be okay w* t. Chris
Mitchell is the civil engineer on the project.
So this shows the subject location. It is j st east of Collier
Boulevard on the north side of Tamiami il. Directly north of us
is the Falling Waters Beach Resort des' community. We're
sitting on basically a six -lane -- a ore than six -lanes with the
turn lanes there, a major intersects Across the street is
commercial. Across Collier ard, it's commercial.
Diagonally, across Tami , is commercial. All fairly large
commercial mixed -use ac 'ty center projects.
The request is to r9rone from C-3 to C-5 with allowing for the
storage facility and then other -- the full range of C-4 uses.
This is t ut e Land Use Element. It shows the general
location of the perty. The activity center is not actually any
longer shad the square red box that's shown there, but this
subj rty is still within the activity center. And this is the
z s you can see, immediately adjacent to our east is C-5
zo 'n , and then the -- there's a CVS on the corner on the
northwest -- northeast corner of Collier and U.S. 41.
This is the subject lot designed. The storage facility is right
here. There is another storage facility. All of this property is under
the same ownership and has been for more than a decade. It was
Page 72
June 27, 2023
platted, and there's been a Site Development Plan approved here for
this existing self -storage facility.
I wanted to point out a couple of things. There is a preserve
here which creates an excellent separation between us and our
neighbors to the north as well as a 92-foot-wide stormwater drat e
easement, which forces the development on these lots to a rel t4
limited area and fairly narrow. There is a right -in, right-o ly
here. It's a divided highway. And so this project has v 0imited
access, right -in, right -out. There is a frontage road r* ere that's
already developed with parking here. Buffers are ce.
And this shows interconnection to the C c would
presumably allow us to move north on Collier o levard.
Unfortunately, that interconnection does exist because CVS, after
years of negotiations, the exorbitant a money that they want
for that doesn't make any sense w t31�e r.
This is an architectural rende showing both the existing site
over here and the proposed sit . ey're architecturally compatible
and united in the design, access point.
As I mentioned, the erty's in Mixed -Use Activity Center
No. 18, which allo s fV the full range of commercial uses.
I pretty muk I went over the site plan already. I'll just make a
point here th t e c 6sest point of the proposed development to
Falling W ters bout 180 feet. There is an existing 6-foot-high
wall along orthern property line with landscaping on both sides.
Whe t self -storage unit was built, my client and myself, we
aI
' h Falling Waters. We made some significant
co tments to them. Those commitments carry over to this -- also
to this proposed self -storage facility, which includes things like no
lighting on the back side, no windows on the back side. We redid
the -- there's a 6-foot-high wall on the back, which needed repair; we
took care of that. There's landscaping on both sides of that wall.
Page 73
June 27, 2023
These are just some of the other commitments we've made.
The parking lot lighting shall be Dark Sky compliant. No more than
one fast food through restaurant establishment is allowed. There is
that second lot immediately to the west of the proposed self -storage,
which my clients also own, which will not have self -storage an y
be used for anything that's allowed in C-4, including -- with t
exception of some prohibited uses, and I'll get to that in just'4a inute.
I think you know this is a very low traffic generato,� �e've
made a number of other commitments that are consistent ith the
proposed East Naples Community Plan. There's king in the
back.
Our height is relatively low, a maximum eet zoned and
38 feet actual. Very low traffic generato ou know, self -storage
is a very low traffic generator. 11011
So I just wanted to talk a littl a ut the East Naples
Community Development Plan. was accepted by the Board in
October of 2020. We had a lication meeting. I say
"accepted." The next st at plan is either a combination of a
Comprehensive Plan ame ent to establish the overlay and a Land
Development Code am�ndment, or I suppose, arguably, it could come
forward with juo Land Development Code amendment.
In any c that has not been heard by the Planning
Commissi no and by the Board. It's still being put together by
staff and w kg its way through the process.
as discussion at one point in September of '22 about a
n,Qr , but that was not carried forward.
d this use is not prohibited in the East Naples Community
Plan. There are a number of discouraged uses that are identified,
and these are now otherwise restricted in terms of location and other
elements of a plan.
So this application is not subject to those limitations on
Page 74
June 27, 2023
self -storage because it hasn't even gotten to the Planning Commission
or the Board yet. We submitted the SDP for this self -storage
building in December of 2022, and that's presumably ready to be
approved once -- if this application is approved.
I did want to point out, however, that there are some elemen
that -- wherein we have tried to comply with the recommend i� of
the East Naples Community Plan.
One of those applications to self -storage is that at 1 t
30 percent of the gross area has to be occupied by an ative use
within the same building or, alternatively, on the s' not within
the same building, provided the non -storage u is front -- in the
front part of the site and screens the view of th st rage.
Well, as I pointed out, it is really not ssi le for us to locate a
building in front of this building. Thi i narrow, again, with
limited access; however, we do h i, arcel right over here, Lot
3, which could be used for alterna v ses and will be because we
won't be putting self -storage o
There -- as I said, t existing buffer which was already
platted. It's 20 feet deep about half of the property. It's reduced
to 10 feet, and that wasiftecause the County took right-of-way when
they widened th when they improved the intersection here, so
they'd actuall t ok he 10 foot of the landscape buffer.
We're not 'ng metal roll -up doors. The building will be
entirely accessed internally. So these are other conditions in the
propcv t Naples Community Plan. We're not having any
02tftNV orage of any kind. Obviously, there are -- there is a
se rage located closer than 1,320 feet. There's actually one
immediately adjacent to the east which was constructed by the same
owner.
So, I mean, I want to point out that the site is extremely limited
for the kind of development that is envisioned in the East Naples
Page 75
June 27, 2023
Community Plan. A site plan and the plat included a preserve at a
stormwater management area, which, again, limited development
options there. And this just shows you the constraints on the two
parcels there.
I just wanted to point out, this is the mixed -use activity cent
The subject lot is right here. And you can see that this whol t
here is pretty narrow. There is a tractor supply store, a she
deputy substation, there's an existing self -storage, the pr d
self -storage then of course, the vacant lot and the CV
But if you look at the other components in th d-Use
Activity Center 18 here, you can see that the ci 1 in Lely
PUD is very large. Same thing on the southw st quadrant, which
has the home -- Lowe's and some other i ovements in it right here.
Some -- quite a mix of commercial lie e same over here.
These are obviously much larger,, eper, and those mixed -use
or commercial projects can accom ate the concepts and desires of
the East Naples Community P ain, which haven't even made it
through the Planning Co i n or the Board. But it's very
difficult to do that over he with the limited access.
Just another raph * o that.
We did hav neighborhood information meeting. We had the
president of t OA for Falling Waters there. His quote is on the
screen. e'v et with them several times. They supported this
one. The ort this one as well. He also spoke at the Planning
Com .
LoCASTRO: Can you go back. I wanted to
just --'okay.
MR. MULHERE: And the Planning Commission voted to
support this request.
I just want to talk very briefly a little bit about the staff
recommendation, which I was a little bit surprised. It seemed a little
Page 76
June 27, 2023
extreme to me given that the East Naples Community Plan hasn't
even -- we don't know what's going to get approved at this point.
My clients, we've been in this process for a long time. I realize it's a
rezone, but this is also a mixed -use commercial activity center.
However, in the Planning Commission staff report, under t
zoning review, the staff reads as follows: The land -use patte W
e
local area contains a mix of multifamily, residential, and co ercial
uses. The current zoning of C-3 is consistent with the (Dished
zoning pattern for the area. The proposed rezone to allow for
a self -storage facility is consistent with the zonin se of the
property to the east.
The property is located within an activity1l�er�ter as well as a
p p Y
regional center subdistrict of the pending JAS. 41 East Corridor
Zoning Overlay, which is envisioned t mpact urban
mixed -use node that is walkable a I it friendly. Well, I think
I've pointed out to you that you'r o oing to see those kinds of
elements in this very limited , very narrow, already almost
completely built comme p. There are other opportunities
along the U.S. 41 for thos occur.
It goes on to say it is notable that the representatives who
attended the NI om the adjacent Fallings Waters neighborhood
indicated the 1 o activity generated by the proposed storage
facility is efe d if properly screened and buffered and, you know,
that the ap t has agreed to a number of limitations and
cond' o the self -storage and for other uses on the property,
i a prohibition of gas stations and convenience stores with
ga ps. So we have tried to be consistent with the proposed East
Naples civic community plan as much as we possibly can.
That concludes my presentation. I do have Felix here if there
are any specific questions about the architectural design. Happy to
answer any questions that you may have.
Page 77
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, do we have any public
speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. I have one registered speaker,
Gordon Brumwell.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Good morning, sir.
DR. BRUMWELL: Hi. Thanks for hearing me. Dr. rdon
Brumwell, Ph.D. in biology, here. O
The East Naples Community Development Planew h the
Board signed off on, shows the community consid -Stor-It places
undesirable. The 41 East Zoning Overlay al h s e community
does not want more U-Stor-It places, especiall yo prime real estate
like this corner.
So while the overlay is not yet pa is true, there's a strong
signal, a very strong signal from tl� & unity, that it doesn't want
more U-Stor-It places in very visi,�e�laces. So please don't rezone
for an undesirable use.
We've just heard thatm&c7vky centers are more dense, multiuse,
and result in a shift, a nudge, to local trips, making everything easier
on the road.
The cornerAn activity center. A U-Stor-It place is not in
sync with tha in tents So please don't rezone for that purpose, but if
you do re ne, ase stipulate it must be for a desirable purpose. Or
if you do a a U-Stor-It place here, please stipulate that it meets
the o r intent of landscaping that is functional and aesthetically
re 's t of the lush Florida we're losing. Particularly, I'd suggest
sh the impermeable surfaces from both rain and sun with native
sha e trees. This would provide the co -benefits of reducing urban
heat island effect and reducing flooding, which we have too much of.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
June 27, 2023
MR. MILLER: That was your only speaker on this item, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Mulhere, do you have any
other speakers? Is there anybody here from Falling Waters or
anything else?
MR. MULHERE: He has his wife at the doctor's office an
was unable to make it. I do want to -- thank you for asking,
I do want to pull up -- if I can just -- I have the letter that h t in
for the Planning Commission, which was in May. So you can see the letter right here which reads,ARI
addressed the County at our NIM meeting at the b ing of this
approval process, I stated that we moved to F a ers for the
peace and quiet, for less people and traffic in t re Traffic at the
corner of the intersection is very bad. W ou d not want any
additional traffic in that area.
The Stor-All owners have bee, neighbors to us throughout
the process and very helpful to o ghborhood. It's important to
us that a clean tenant use the y. We have a bear problem,
important not to create ay ly garbage. Because we are -- we
abut the commercial property to our south, there is no other
residential propert that is more affected than we are, which I pointed
out in my prese on. This is the only residential adjacent
development
Deve e ave kept all of their promises. They've been great
neighbors. please approve the project as presented. I'm going
to b ank's last name, but Frank M. Ferraiuolo.
MISSIONER McDANIEL: Frank F.
AIRMAN LoCASTRO: So before I ask my list of
questions, can you do a little bit of a deeper dive on what type of
landscaping you are proposing? And like you said, there's a big
buffer in the back that you automatically get to enjoy because of that,
you know, environmentally extensive property.
Page 79
June 27, 2023
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But once this companion property
goes up next to the storage unit that already exists on the adjacent
land by the same owner, what's the -- what's the landscape
and -- what's the landscape plan for the new building if we appro d
it?
MR. MULHERE: So there's obviously one point I wa�o
make, Commissioners, the very few parking spaces that a(Dequired
compared to other uses here. So when we talk about a sea of asphalt
and heat and those kind of things, this use, by its vture, requires
less asphalt. 7'
I do want to point out, if you look on this x ibit, that there's a
right -in, right -out that exists, and this fro e road here exists, which
is good, because people can move tyro project to the east to
the other projects without having ck out onto the trail. There
is a landscape buffer that already i It's 20 feet wide right here
and is planted and is mature. n
The staff will look at thA we go -- if this was to be approved,
the staff will look at that as we go through the SDP process, and if we
have to supplement that with any trees, we will do that as part of the
SDP process.
The sa t in ere. The buffer is reduced to 10 feet because
of acquisi 'on ight-of-way for the intersection improvements. So
the pro ert ner lost land for the intersection improvements,
Com er. And I don't think it would make any sense to jut
t - - access road back. It's just going to create problems. It's
a s ' ht access road the way it is today.
So, I mean, I think the landscaping's in place, but if we have to
supplement it, I'm sure staff will look at that as we go through the
SDP process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The current storage unit that's
June 27, 2023
already in place that this would be a companion to -- when was that
built? Remind me when that was built.
MR. MULHERE: 2020? ' 19? It was approved in ' 19.
Probably construction in 2020. Sold out within four or five months.
One month. One month.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And the height of the curre
buildingis what? And the height of this proposed buildin s� at?
g p p g
MR. MULHERE: They're both 35 feet.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thirty-five feet?
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. No r bably been
more negative about storage units up on this p e than me, but I put
in my newsletter that I released last week le clarifications. I'm
not against storage units. I'm more.fo e the location. And so
I was very clear about that in my vdl er last week saying that,
you know, they sell out quick for son, but, you know, putting
them haphazardly just sort of ' s that could have benefited from
something maybe more ally pleasing or more needed, you
know, up and down U.S. just my personal opinion, you know,
that train already left the station.
One of the �hings that I am a supporter of -- and I've spent a lot
of time with VrBosi talking about mixed -use activity centers -- is
concentrating e more industrial commercial things on a footprint
so that it's a on'C-stop shop. People can go visit Publix, they can go
visit all, but, you know, there are some storage units, as you
s e up and down U.S. 41, that aren't really in the heart of an
ac i center. Somebody found a nice piece of property. Storage
units are cash cows. And, you know, years ago it wasn't illegal,
immoral, or unethical. We had zoning in place that allowed for
these units to be built, and they went up very quickly in District 1 and
in areas that I think didn't add to the -- to the aesthetics or the positive
June 27, 2023
use of that area.
I've said before, when you build a storage unit on the corner of
something that's not a commercial activity center and it's just, you
know, across from a gated community or what have you, on the
opposite corner, you don't get an Ocean Prime restaurant. You a
Wawa or a RaceTrac gas station. And so you've effectively
that intersection when maybe it could have benefited from et ing
that was more balanced for the community. 0
Even though I led some discussion here about taking a
pregnant pause or, you know -- you know, I hated the word
"moratorium," but, yeah, back in September I s ating that idea
just because I felt like we needed to sort of cat ur breath.
And to the speaker's point -- and I a ciate you coming to the
podium, sir. But to my disappointnple ast Naples overlay,
which is still in play, nothing was Ad. All's we approved back
last year was to move forward on tto -- on further analysis. And
even though the current draft have some things in it that are
very negative against sto s, that may not pass with this group,
you know. And so, you w, right now it's just in draft form.
I mean, I've said before, had that aggressively been pushed by
the County 10 ye4 ago, we could have a document that we could
throw up rig n w and say, approved or disapproved, because it
meets or dQQ�esn eet.
And 00ftissioner Saunders has that advantage in Golden Gate
beca as a Golden Gate Master Plan which is sort of like very
si what we're trying to do in East Naples. We're just doing it
ab t 0 or 15 years too late. So even if that document comes out
and it says all the things that can't be done in East Naples, they're
already done. So we won't tear down all the things that don't meet
the East Naples, you know, overlay, you know, development plan.
So I probably -- I don't say "probably." I don't love this, okay?
June 27, 2023
But I also tried to be more fair, more maybe strategic and say, I also
think it's irresponsible to just say, I'm going to vote against every
storage unit that ever comes up here. It's really about, like, where it
is.
So let me ask you this: When this was -- this owner has o d
both lots from -- like you said, more than 10 years. When he It
the first storage unit in 2019, my understanding is the plan even
presented to the County, was always that he was going t u Id a
matching companion unit right next to it, correct?
MR. MULHERE: That was always the inte We weren't
smart enough at the time to go through this o a now we're
going through it twice. And I imagine it prob 1 had to do with,
you know, what will the market conditio e after we finish this first
building. But, yes, that was always,- t
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO. i So the reason I hate this
one a lot less than so many other ave already been built -- and
even some others that sort of o me where somebody was
testing the waters and I g strong negative support, and some
of them sort of died on th e, you know, they wanted to sort of
float the idea -- hi onVs in an area that is a commercial activity
center, so that's us compared to others that aren't that we can't
unbuild. It i ka�i(o panion project to a project that was approved
long ago, dow that this was always the plan, and even the
citizens kn , and that's why they're in support of it.
t Naples development overlay, even though we don't
h nal version, and who knows what's going to be, you know,
lin m vetoed out of that, because I think there's some things in
there that I'm going to be really excited about for East Naples, but in
the end, it takes the commissioners up here, and there's, you know,
several of my colleagues here that are going to feel differently than I
do about land -use rights and whatnot.
1
June 27, 2023
The one thing that I'm encouraged about that you've done here
that other developers that have come to me haven't done is even
though that East Naples overlay isn't approved, you are attacking this
companion project like it has been approved. And, you know, I met
with Mr. Bosi, and in many cases you've met or exceeded what I'm
hoping is in the overlay, and you're taking a position, assumi it's
approved.
And so I hate this less because you're meeting the Q rds of
what I hope is going to be in this long -overdue East , you
know, overlay. But instead of trying to sort of s this under the
door with the minimum things required, I'm, l' d, less upset
that you -all have leaned far forward and said, a ow, we're trying
to bring this to the standard of what migh in the East Naples
overlay. And if it isn't, then, you kPo e still exceeded the
standard.
So, you know, just to be clea not sitting here
rubber-stamping storage units hate this one a lot less than some
others that have been bu* rict 1 and some others that even
might be coming forward. ut, you know, in this one, to be, you
know, fair -- and also, t9►o, look at this and go, it's in the middle of
a -- of an activitr1l nter, and by allowing it to be built there, we're
saving a piec o pr erty maybe in a -- in another location where a
storage un' isn he best thing. And so I look at it as it's a little bit
of sort of t adeoff.
n, like I said, this is a companion project to something
thafl% dy been built. This landowner has owned the land for 10
years. It's not a big surprise. All this was discussed, you know,
well before my time.
And I know the people that live in that community. I heard the
same results from the NIM. You know, I did get some
negative -- not overly negative, but some folks that sort of made
June 27, 2023
blanket statements and just said, we know you hate storage units, so
make sure you don't approve this one. And it's really not about the
storage units. It's the location of where it is, and this one's in the
heart of, as you showed on the map, where I wish more storage units
were. N
If I was king for a day and could move some out of some iNs
that are, you know, in more -- in locations that would be mcO
advantageous for higher level shopping, better restaura a d all of
that, you know, we sort of have used up some primer tate in
some areas that aren't, you know, the industrial ce here we
could have had some other things.
But I think you have -- I mean, we spent o o time on this one
because, you know, you knew I had a lot concerns about any
storage units just in general. But yQu is is one where I think
the location is less bad, if I could spay h It's not overly tall, and
like you said, it's a matching com n. n project that was already, you
know, discussed back in 2019 t ' st -- you know, your client, I
guess, you know, did -- n7stire when they were going to build
sort of this second buildin
Knowing that the community, you know, attended the
NIM -- and I go of of feedback from that community as well
saying, hey, o you're not a big fan of storage units, but we
think this one i little bit unique that it's in a commercial activity
center, it's alrey surrounded by some things, it's a companion
proj oMething that's already built.
, ou know, I want to be realistic here. I'm not banging on
to s you know, putting blinders on and saying, I'm going to vote no
on every single thing has the word "storage unit" on it, but there's
some places where I think storage units, car washes, things like that,
don't fit optimally, and in this particular case, I don't think this is one
that I'm, like, outraged over.
June 27, 2023
So this is my district. Maybe -- you know, I've got a few
people, you know, lighting up here, but, you know, I've taken -- I've
spent a lot of time looking at this one, a lot of time talking to
constituents, and, you know, the lesser of all evils is I wish more of
our storage units were concentrated in areas like this and built li
this. It doesn't mean I love them, but, you know, having sai tj
also have to sit here and think, is there anything illegal, im 1, or
unethical, you know, with this project. O
And, you know, I'm not someone that just votes cause, you
know, 100 people showed up in red shirts. And i case, the
people that live close by this area, you know, -- e OA
president spoke for itself.
To the gentleman's comments in the k, 7 agree with you
wholeheartedly. So the conversation ut landscape and
things like that, you know, Mr. B ' �'�, 't know if your position is
we've got to solidify something a 1 t ore robust and detailed or if
this was approved you would - could continue to have a
discussion, and if you th �"e were sort of skimping on robust,
lush, you know, professio landscape that is conducive and
complementary to what already in that area, would we have the
last -- you know ould that be something that could continue after
this, or do we ve sit here and specifically put something more
detailed b ore vote and when it comes to landscape?
Becau e gentleman brought up a good point, and that is a
conc me. Even though I don't think the building and the
to 'Ns a gigantic showstopper, I want to make sure that, you
kn e're not sort of skimping on the aesthetics of this second, you
know, companion storage unit.
So, you know, what are your thoughts? Do we need to get
more specific in the -- in the, you know, terminology in the narrative
before we vote here, or this will be something, as Mr. Mulhere said,
June 27, 2023
you'll go forward, and if you see some sort of big red flag, you could
bring to our attention?
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
I would ask if you would like an enhanced landscape buffer.
They have an existing landscape buffer. And I don't think the
configuration allows us to increase the width. But I would t *i
some additional plant material added to the existing landsc uffer
could provide for a better buffering, better enhancemen i out a lot
of specificity. You don't have to name the type of tr --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: -- you know, the species, b%La.n anced -- and
enhanced landscape buffer along the U.S. 41 c i or within the
original -- within the existing footprint, I Aiil -- I would say would
be an improvement to the overall, yQu esthetic and softening
of the facility.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: ay. And everything -- so that
helps. Everything that I said o that, do you have any
comment? So, you kno , ings that I'm sitting here taking a
look at is I hate it less bec e it's in the center of an activity center,
which, like I said, wisJ more storage units were; I hate it less
because it's a co anion project, and has always been, to a storage
unit that's alr th re. I hate it less because the local community is
actually -- nd t feedback from them as well -- would prefer this
companion 'ect over some other things that could go in this
locat' to it less because the architecture and height is not
o u know, obtrusive or of a main concern; and I hate it less
be e of the natural buffers but also what has the potential of
enhanced buffers, which I would like.
And I hate it less because it also meets or exceeds the East
Naples overlay, which hasn't even come to us yet, could pass, might
not even pass, but, you know, this particular landowner has taken it
June 27, 2023
upon themself to look at the things that would affect them in that
overlay, could affect them if it's passed, and has already met or
exceeded those, what we hope are, you know, requirements but are
sort of proposed expectations right now.
Did I -- did everything I say -- is that correct, or do you hav
comment on any of that? ���
MR. BOSL• I could offer a comment. You are corrects, is is a
mixed -use activity center. It hosts Commercial 1 to
Commercial 5 is where the self -storage facility is a p
It's a conditional use in the C-4. So this is a plac
Management Plan would suggest to be a self - a
411
The reason why staff was constrained fro r cc
ial 5.
*ted use.
,our Growth
ility.
lending
approval -- and the applicant did a terrific * b of giving you the
history and trying to show compliance i -- with the developing
East Naples Zoning Overlay. 20 4 ast Naples Development
Plan was accepted, just accepted b Board of County
Commissioners. It had some2-ts.
In April of this year 1QX'5th, the GMP overlay, which
addressed additional heig d additional density within your
community region centers was transformed by the Board of County
Commissioners.ou transmitted it to the State of Florida. We did
get some co nts back from the State of Florida with some
concern over i asing density within the Coastal High Hazard
Area. So ve some constraints upon ourselves in terms of when
we b ' back to you for consideration.
he intention was when we bring that back for
co ration, we were also going to bring the -- we were also going
to bring the zoning overlay with it. And I'm just going to bring up
the draft of the U.S. 41 zoning overlay -- it's already been heard by
the DSAC -- just to give you an understanding. Someone overrode
my --
1 ••
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this: If that -- if
that zoning overlay was approved as -is or very close to what we hope
or expect or think it might be, is there anything in this project that
would be in violation of what we are currently looking to get
approved or proposed? Is there -- are there any data points in
this -- in this current building that would be, you know, excZety?
kbo
compared to the overlay if and when that's approved in its
MR. BOSI: Yes, there's one point. And this is -- �s the
proposed draft right now, and it identifies a self -storage ility as a
use for additional design standards where -- and it � d.�uggested the
30 percent of floor area or an alternative use i e same project.
I think the applicant has addressed that they in n t do that with
that other adjoining parcel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 1 ig
MR. BOSI: Where you get c p -- and there's also a
building design component that th 'ave, and no outdoor storage of
any kind. They're in line wit
It's the E, it's the locatio all criteria. It says,
self-storage/mini-storage v*Zehouses shall not be located closer than
1,320 feet from the ,closest property line of another
self-storage/mini-storage facility. That's where they're in -- they're
not in compliance with it, but that's not an adopted overlay yet.
CHAIRN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. "OSI: It's been to the DSAC. We intend to bring it to
the P Commission when we have the -- when we have the
a earing for the -- for the GMP that came on.
ke I said, we're going to have to address the GMP because the
State has raised concerns about raising density within Coastal High
Hazard Areas. So we've got a couple strategies that we're talking to
the State about hopefully to mitigate those issues.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, realistically, if that was
June 27, 2023
approved -- and I'm just talking out loud. Is it possible this could be
an exception? Because I think the intent of that is I'm Rick
LoCastro, and I built a storage unit, and then a week later,
Commissioner Saunders buys a lot right next to me, and he wants to
build a storage unit. So this prevents us from having -- I mean,
look at this as this is a companion project to one footprint ow a
property owner that has had it for 10 years. So if this pass ould
there be some gray area here that he's not building a sto �e init next
to another -- he's building one next to his own? An ooking for
clarification here.
MR. BOSI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or this wou -- or this would still
stand, and he would not be allowed to bu' a companion storage unit
next to one he already owns on prope e wned for 10 years.
MR. BOSI: The applicant h d the existing self -storage
facility, this lot. This lot here is n C-3. So when he purchased
it, if he wanted to build a self- e facility, he would have had to
have rezoned that prope -3.
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: Right.
MR. BOSI: o you couldn't make that case.
Here's the thing that I say. Further, our hands are tied, and
it seems like i Ea Naples Development Plan has -- there's
roadblock in t of it a number different ways. It's called Senate
Bill 250. ;e Bill 250 which was passed b the legislature, said
p y
that rty
that's within 100 miles of the path of Hurricane Ian
c more restrictive standards within their Land
De pment Code than what exists today. We can't -- so this
over ay, we can't bring this overlay to you with the adoption hearing
the way that it is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: It would not be consistent with state statutes. We
June 27, 2023
can only bring the enhancements that are trying to promote more
mixed -use --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: -- but nothing that's more restrictive. So
even -- so staffs really in a -- stuck in a tough position. We
recognize that an activity center would support this type of a
4q
The community -- the East Naples Development Plan and t
community, through the zoning overlay, has tried to put (&
locational restrictions upon self -storage facilities, car es.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. OW411"
MR. BOSI: We're not going to be able
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So even --
will be -- and I've got commissioners lit
a-Tny last question
, and then I'll maybe
close it out with a motion depending o hear here.
But having said all of that, even though all that stuff is still in
limbo, this applicant and this Ian �r has met or exceeded
requirements that may or may t e approved to go the extra mile, I
guess; is that a fair statei2Mt
MR. BOSL• Staff w recognize that the applicant has been
very willing to com lyyvith components of the overlay.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: Mr. Mulhere, when you hear
the -- what di,,�y�u ll the additional landscape? Like, more robust,
or what's the
MR. 4Mt-HERE: Well, I have a -- I have the actual approved
landsca n up. I just wanted to share that with you.
C14AIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, Mr. Bosi, what was the
to logy you used for more -- like more robust?
MR. BOSI: Enhanced.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Enhanced. I'm sorry. Yeah,
enhanced.
MR. MULHERE: And we did that. So I'm just reading from
Page 91
June 27, 2023
what the approved landscape buffer was on the south, along the
right-of-way. It was a Type D buffer with one tree every 30 feet and
a double hedgerow 3-foot on center.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But listen, before you go through,
like, you know --
MR. MULHERE: No, we are exceeding that. Now, I do think
that it's possible --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I think the word " h nced,"
to the County, means something, and so even thoedosomething
fight
laundry list all the plants and all those things likewould ask
Mr. Bosi, am I correct in saying that if we act he word
if it either confirms that they're alre ying
that's enhanced, or it might elevate a few er landscape things that,
you know, the citizen, I, and maybe.ot concerned about?
MR. BOSI: Staff would loo existing approved plan, and
then it would look at the actual co i ion, and it would make an
evaluation, are you -- are you han what --
CHAIRMAN LoC Right.
MR. BOSI: -- the a ved plan was? And if they were
meeting that in the condition, then staff would say --
CHAIRM oCASTRO: Do you think they're currently
meeting enha c d o there's some --
MR. O I am not a landscape architect, so...
CHA N LoCASTRO: All right. Okay.
ear from my colleagues. Commissioner Hall, then
C oner Kowal.
MMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
So I have a question. This is a recommendation to deny the
application? So would a no vote be in favor of it, or would a
yes -- and a yes vote would be not in favor of the project?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. You make a motion. Motion to
Page 92
June 27, 2023
approve or motion to deny.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Then I make a motion to
approve this project.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Kowal did
you have some questions or anything before we --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then Commissioner
McDaniel. 0
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Mr. Mulhere, cai bring up
the side -by -side photo again of the storage unit.
MR. MULHERE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I gue s i is a question for
our County Attorney, too. You were get ' u , sorry. You know,
we're -- with staff s recommendation a - to deny, and we're
moving forward, and I'm hearing c oving parts here with what
could be or couldn't be, and now ow, with the new statutes
coming down from Tallahass , ean, if we're making rulings on
things that don't exist ye *e're making rulings on things that we
may see in the future may tradict what our rulings would be, are
we opening ourselves tW to some sort of litigation saying, you know,
you made a t�r*ww
on something that was a hunch or this or that,
and there is t be statute that I can do this.
MR. !NKOW: You have a quasi-judicial hearing going
on right no ou have criteria to whether or not you're going to
apprA,kU.Nhat criteria's in your executive summary.
oncept of the East Naples overlay is not part of that. That
is outside this discussion. All right. If you're going to deny this, it's
not going to be based on a plan that may or may not be voted on. It's
going to be based on the criteria that's before you in the executive
summary.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But that's the basis that our staff
Page 93
June 27, 2023
is bringing it to us.
MR. KLATZKOW: I understand that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. I just --
MR. KLATZKOW: That's not the legal considerations but
that's staff s recommendation.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you. �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So secondly -- I'm I
was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I wanted e up there.
And I was just going to go full circle. And I o -- you know, this
might help you, Commissioner LoCastro. ou know, if I took 10
people in a minivan 45 miles an hoer road on Collier
Boulevard and we didn't tell themPovl�at, ose buildings were, I could
probably guarantee all 10 couldn't Vl me what that was.
Now, people have a con 0'iPthe
or idea what a storage unit looks
like because they've see past. You've got the cyclone
fences. You've got the e ngated buildings. You've got the hundred
orange roll -up gara e doors facing your interstate, you know, and
that's set in their 'nds.
But the on e left almost looks like half of our elementary
schools w bui here in the county. I mean visually, seriously.
I mea - o I think what you're doing -- and the other part about
bein *really
so many thousand feet of another storage unit, I don't
falls under this jurisdiction, because this gentleman,
yo ow, he built the first one. He sold out in a month. So,
evidently, there's a need to the community for this type of business.
And he sees that, that he has an opportunity to provide that, again, for
the local community in a way that's not visually, you know, bad. I
mean, it is what it is.
June 27, 2023
And I can guarantee you that 10 people couldn't tell me what
those buildings are if I drove them by there at 45 miles an hour. I
can guarantee it, if you didn't have signage out there.
MR. MULHERE: You have super restrictive architectural
design standards that require those buildings to look more like an
office building than anything else.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. So, you know of
was dumbfounded myself when I read that, you know, re not
going to recommend, knowing that the Planning Co on -- I
wanted to have an opportunity to actually look at, ow, what
was going to be there, and it was the same o aan't a
competing element to somebody that was alrea re.
You know, I kind of have to -- you w, have to support this.
I mean, I think it's the right place. It's t look. It's the right
design. And the only people that 'vi t to it are supportive
because they like the neighbor the a eady have. And jeopardizing
that and having somebody in e hey might not like, you know, I
think they're trying to pr irselves. So that's kind of how I
feel about it.
CHAIRMAN LoCAS RO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISS ER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you.
You kn or ,-- to coin the Chair's phrase, you hate it less. If
we could ntr he color of what was actually going to end up being
without tho 'g, ugly, red -- orange doors and things, that would be
a nic ut we really can't.
oo'� uestion is -- circumstances change. We have a nice
prop. e -ty owner now. He's been a good neighbor. We rezone this
piece of property to C-5. Why are we not asking for -- is it not
allowed for a C-3 conditional use request to do storage?
MR. MULHERE: It's not. C-4 conditional -use, C-5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that's why the rezone
June 27, 2023
goes. So my question is, can we condition this approval on the use
and not -- and require a comeback if the property owner -- not owner
changes. But if the use changes, can we require that to be
stipulated?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
MR. MULHERE: I just want to point out, Commission , t
we've agreed to probably --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And while you' u ting
that --
MR. MULHERE: Right here. We've agree y number of
conditions. The square footage is limited. T s ac is set in
place. The hours of operation are limited. T g ting is restricted.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I a 1 of those things.
MR. MULHERE: So I just wpte , - I mean, the only C-5
use we're asking for, I'm sorry, is storage. No other C-5 use.
Its only that.
COMMISSIONER McD L: So if this particular good
neighbor, good owner, good rerty owner sells the piece of
property, we're not opening Pandora's box for all of the uses under
C-5? *#*
MR. MULHERE: That's correct.
COMM ONER McDANIEL: It can only be as designed,
size, shap co a storage facility no matter who owns the piece of
propert .
LHERE: Subject to these. I don't know about color.
�L MISSIONER McDANIEL: And then the other question I
had -- you may be able to answer it. Because -- I'm okay now,
because I was concerned that we were going to rezone it, and then it
sells, and we get to deal with whatever else is there.
Under the --
MR. KLATZKOW: You're also rezoning it to C-4.
Page 96
June 27, 2023
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay. So the C-5 is limited --
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- but somebody could purchase the
property and put in a use for C-4.
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. O
MR. KLATZKOW: So if you want to conditio rezoning
that they're going to be putting in a storage facilit they're
selling this as, you can do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That M would provide
I )�
for better protection for -- '
MR. MULHERE: On this lot,
COMMISSIONER McDANI �, the use for the
neighborhood --
MR. MULHERE: That'a
COMMISSIONER EL: -- on this particular lot.
COMMISSIONER L: Then I'll amend the motion to
approve it as a conditional use for storage unit only.
MR. KLAOW: Well, not as conditional use, but --
COMM ONER McDANIEL: Not a conditional use,
because w ha o rezone the property to C-5.
COM IONER HALL: Well, rezone it for a storage unit.
How e st maintains and bes a storage unit.
KLATZKOW: Eliminate the C-4 rezone portion of this.
Yo ' simply going to rezone it to C-5 limited to this storage unit but
no other uses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We want to eliminate the loophole.
Commissioner McDaniel's bringing up a great point. We want to
eliminate the possible loophole of a sale and then a blanket approval
Page 97
June 27, 2023
for something we don't want there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Or -- yes, it would be less
conducive --
MR. MULHERE: May I just make a comment?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't get to pickZon t
property rights. The property rights travel with the zoning,
rezone opens that door for --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good point. 0
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the utilizat' the
property rights, and that's where I'm -- that's wher -
MR. MULHERE: I just wanted to poin it, e eason that we
chose to rezone to C-4 with one C-5 limited to se f-storage was
that we felt that the C-4 district is in an a it center, provided a
better mix of uses for that last remaii o at might actually meet
the desires of the East Naples Civ' A 0 osed to C-3, which is much
more restrictive. That's why we t at in there.
We prohibited gas statio convenience stores. Everything
else, depending on what hap with the East Naples Community
Plan, will be restricted. S* just wanted you to understand it wasn't,
you know, a big re ch. There's only going to be one vacant lot if
this gets approv And it seemed appropriate to go to C-4 in an
activity cent e .
COMMI NER McDANIEL: And while I'm contemplating
that, the qu tiKln is, with it being C-3 now, could the
appli -- ould the property owner, without a hearing, convert to
re ' nt i under the -- under the living local act?
N04R. MULHERE: Live Local, yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Local, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Which then height
restrictions go out the window, size, shape, all those things, density
goes off the chart, traffic impacts, negative impacts?
June 27, 2023
MR. MULHERE: It's about 5.6 acres. So, yeah, you could do
something. It wouldn't be very desirable, I wouldn't think, given the
configuration of those lots, but yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Certainly not as desirable.
So -- and thank you for that. I just -- I had that in my brain ear i
with regard to the moving -- or the living local statute that we+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So do you have a -- you k�, my
question is, do you -- because everything you're saying
significant merit. Do you have a better way of word'
so that it does ensure that we're not opening up Pa
other possible things, you know, down the r,
way to word this zoning -wise so that we are
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, clarificat A
here'.
And one lot's going to be the.
COMMISSIONER McDANIC
what the other one is, but we're
MR. KLATZKOW: Thai
COMMISSIONER
MR. KLATZKOW
his motion
box for
a better
"Aren't there two lots
And we don't know
it from C-3 to C-4.
UIEL: Right.
that's -- so the issue isn't the -- the issue
isn't the lot that they're putting the storage on. The issue was the
other lot, and you have no idea what is going to go on there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, the issue is both.
Again, I g t�clication on the C-5 use to be specifically for storage.
It does one other uses under the C-4.
HERE: In the future.
SSIONER McDANIEL: Zoning classifications
without -- and we don't have -- we don't know what those are.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't know what those
uses, in fact, are going to be. I'm not -- I'm not as concerned about
it -- there again, it's over on the corner, and -- so...
June 27, 2023
MR. MULHERE: I just want to point out, you don't know what
other C-3 uses are going to go there. I mean, the district -- C-4 is a
more permissive district. If you felt comfortable restricting -- as Jeff
suggested, taking out the C-4 and allowing just the one C-5 use, we're
not going to object. There's only one lot left.
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL. Right.
MR. MULHERE: But we just felt it gave a better miuses
for that lot. O
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You made a ent
earlier, Bob, about, you know, having to come ba e well, and if
we'd a known better, we would have rezoned 11 the first place
and so on. I'm not looking to cause that.
You have put prohibitive restriction th C-4 request to not
allow for a gas station, not allow fob a ence store, the other
listed C-4 uses. Could that -- co ite -- could that site be
converted to a high -density reside i
Mike? Mr. Bosi?
MR. BOSI: Any s' zoned commercial can. It's
commercial.
COMMISSIONEF..#McDANIEL: Yes. And it's C-3.
MR. BOSI• nd it's commercial whether it's C-1, C-2, C-31
C-4, or C-5. ,�'x ,
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. It doesn't get any
more because of C-4 as opposed to C-3 that it currently is.
ULHERE: I'm sorry, Commissioner. Let me just read
the list prohibited uses that we included with the rezone.
Amusement and recreation services outdoor, anything that would be
noise and -- automobile parking, automotive vehicle equipment
dealers, convenience stores with gas pumps, gasoline stations,
homeless shelters, hospitals, marinas, outdoor storage and materials,
pawn shops, repair services. Only allowed one fast-food restaurant
Page 100
June 27, 2023
if, indeed, that goes on that parcel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On the C-4?
MR. MULHERE: Yep, yep.
No building or structure shall exceed 35 feet. Because C-4
allows more height, we put that restriction in.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. �+
MR. MULHERE: And that looks like that's the end o uses
we restricted. I think it's pretty restrictive. O
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think suffici�eiii it's
covered.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I r nt to -- I want to
thank my colleagues here, because I know that i i a sore point
with me, storage units, but also, too, I'm aAali t. I'm not here to
just -- you know, I cover my eyes aid ' no to every storage
unit. Like I said, it's more about, ion.
So I appreciate the healthy i sion here to make sure that if
this is something I hate less, t still as positively, you know,
done as possible. And t1^ iI say, putting it in the center of a
mixed -use activity center maybe saves another piece of real estate
somewhere else for it. .*
I don't know'. Do my colleagues have any other questions?
COMMISSIO ER McDANIEL: I think the motion that was
made is sa 'sfaNry, and I'll second it.
CHAfVhKN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I have -- one thing that
I wo -- and this might be semantics, okay, but humor me a bit.
It sou ike you have a very robust landscape plan, but I think to
ou t f, the word "enhanced landscape" does mean something. So
I don't know if it needs to be put in writing somewhere or it's just I'm
saying it verbally and you're agreeing to it.
But in the discussions, if this does pass -- and it looks like it
will -- and we move forward, you know, I'll take the words out of the
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June 27, 2023
citizen's mouth, because he's speaking for both of us, I really want to
see robust -- and there already is in that area. You know, you go
down the road where they've built the Publix and everything. I
spend a lot of time in that area, and a lot of developers have really
gone above and beyond to not just make it look like a big, giant
industrial footprint.
So I want to make sure that we do go to the max. Anink
the words "enhanced landscape," to the County, do mea Chething.
So even though you have a laundry list of plants and ev thing, I'd
like that word injected into the verbiage of what y ve there.
MR. MULHERE: I will.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And it migh m an nothing. It
might mean you already have that. But i ou know, when we do
sort of get to those details, I want to m kthat we've got
everything in there that allows oVaed
as far forward on the
r`Y g Y
landscape as possible under the elandscape category.
MR. MULHERE: I kno f won't want it to be too
subjective. They're going nt it to be very objective.
So I've done this be I understand the term "enhanced
landscape buffer. We0odo exceed the code because that natural
preserve acts as Aandscape buffer.
CHAI LoCASTRO: I know, but that's nothing you've
done, so t is ady back there.
MR. ERE: No, it's there. No, I agree.
AM AN LoCASTRO: The natural buffer.
WMULHERE: Along 41.
AIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm not giving you credit for that.
MR. MULHERE: No, no. I understand. But what I'm trying
to say is the only opportunity is along 41.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. And I want you to do
enhanced landscape along that -- on 41.
Page 102
June 27, 2023
MR. MULHERE: And so what I'm suggesting is that we agree
to a -- we agree to a double hedgerow. The code requires a canopy
tree every 30 feet, so spaced one tree per 30 feet. You can put them
together, but that's the calculation for --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And you're doing what? N
MR. MULHERE: We're going to do one per 25.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So is that -- does,14 t all
under "enhanced landscape"? O
MR. BOSI: Yes.
MR. MULHERE: So that -- we'll have to p in this
ordinance --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: -- as a requireme
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One Phings I always say here
before we vote, or sometimes a e, is just because we vote
on it, we're not done. And so this 's District 1, and I want to
follow this one closely.
And, you know, MrGou and I will stay, you know,
plugged in. It's not a matter of just approving it and then saying, you
know, we're done. It's keeping an eye on it. We've approved, you
know, many pro' ts, you know, up here that turned out to not be
great. The , know, maybe the rock crushing lot. You
know, yo cou it here and mention some things.
I wan to be a very successful project with enhanced
land nd it's a companion project to something that's already
tht in an area that is much more favorable than some of our
of orage units that can't be unbuilt.
So having said that, I've got a motion and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
Page 103
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. MULHERE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We will now break f Qch
unless, County Manager, did you have something?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. What time do ant us back?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry. s ioner
Saunders, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I s going to say what time
do we come back?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:, o you think? Is 1:00
too soon? Fifty-three minutes f &*"It
so we keep moving? Okay.
Is that enough? Okay. We'l ck at 1.
(A luncheon recess from 12:07 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: air, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoC,OKS RO: Okay. We're back, everyone.
Just a reminder to everyone, there's a lot of new people in here.
Please put yo ell phones on silent and whatnot, so -- in case they
were on at un We've got a lot to -- a lot to talk about here.
Okay. we're going to move to 11 A.
I
A PROJECT UPDATE ON THE COLLIER COUNTY MENTAL
HEALTH FACILITY AND STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO
PROCEED WITH THE DESIGN OF OPTION NUMBER ONE FOR
87 TOTAL BEDS (45 CSU, 30 ADULT MEDICARE/ACUTE AND
Page 104
June 27, 2023
12 ESAC) WITH AN ESTIMATED CONSTRUCTION COST OF
$44 MILLION (PROJECT NO. 50239) - MOTION TO APPROVE
BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS — APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Commissioner, that bringibW10
Item 11A, our 1:00 time -certain. This is a recommendation to accept
a project update on the Collier County Mental Health fa et and
staff recommendation to proceed with the design of No. 1 for
87 total beds: 45 CSU, 30 adult Medicare acute, ESAC, with
an estimated construction cost of $44 million.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manag i 1 begin the
presentation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oak
MR. FINN: Thank you, ma' ppreciate the introduction.
Edward Finn, Deputy County Ma
Today we're going to tal t the mental health facility. I
have some folks here. oing to help us out, get through this.
Scott Burgess, the C of David Lawrence Center, is here.
He's here to speak o the development of the program for this facility.
I have Javier Sa r of RG Architects. He will be able to speak to
how his desi go,'ng to meet those programmatic objectives. Eric
Brackin fr m ngelis Diamond, the construction manager on this
job, is also Ayoub Al-Bahou, our principal project manager
from s Management, and Claudia Roncoroni, senior project
ma are the internal team on this.
e 87-bed design that's being recommended is kind of shown
on your -- on your screen at the moment. This is 87 beds. The -- it
is coded for the type of uses, and we'll have another schematic where
we can look at those uses in a little more depth.
The estimated construction cost only is 44 million, and that note
Page 105
June 27, 2023
there says that includes some preliminary value engineering that's
already been applied to this initial budget.
The project objective: The mental health facility is an
important community priority project endorsed by the voters in 2018
and identified as the number -one priority of the Behavioral Healt d
Hoc Committee.
The facility will function as a central receiving facilit t ose
receiving services under both Baker and Marchman Act will
greatly increase mental health crisis support. The pr d new
facility will serve the mental health needs of Colli nty's
expanding population and will serve to reduc d currently
placed on the Collier County Sheriffs Office.
This is a little snippet of the project tAeIine. In March of '22,
the NTP, notice to proceed, was iss-qe Architects. In March
of'23, the construction manager c c as approved by the Board,
and we're back to you today, on Ju e th, seeking the Board's
authorization to move forwar the design of option, in this case,
Option No. 1.
You'll see there, tent �vely, fall of '24, what's identified there is
guarantee maximum proe number one. That would be the price for
the site work. ope is to have the site work rolling before the
final design okt&ertical construction is finalized, bringing us to a
spring of' 5 vtentative guaranteed maximum price approval for
that eleme he project.
rogramming and master planning, an important part of
11 1 act, the programming and master planning. I'm going to
go r ugh a few slides with you real quick, and if there are any
questions on the programming at this point, Mr. Burgess, perhaps,
could help us.
These comments deal with adult beds rather than children's
beds. The average number of adults under the Marchman Act at the
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June 27, 2023
Sheriffs Office jail is approximately 10 beds per month. The
average number of adults within the existing David Lawrence Center
facility is approximately 29 per day. The peak number of occupied
beds experienced by DLC is 40 beds per day. The existing
programmatic needs for beds based on today's demand is somew e
between 39 and 50. �+
Twelve emergency service assessment center, ESAC, bb are
required with all the options that are going to be present 0you
today. And the last bullet deals with the number oX101,
y residents
that are -- that are forced to seek mental health ser,ut of the
county. ���, '
Project construction estimates are art of11►6o n at our options.
J p g p
The construction manager, DeAngelis D14niond, started developing
construction budgets immediately atte tract was approved.
They developed an initial detailed ction estimate based on the
30 percent construction drawery
e amount of 48 million. That
was for the 87-bed design Opo. 1 as we're calling it today.
And they used an extens' of subcontractors to arrive at that
number.
The $44 million construction estimate for Option No. 1 we're
talking about toA includes preliminary value engineering on that
original $48 i ion umber. In addition to the 87-bed option being
recomme ed, tion 1, staff is providing a 72-bed option, Option 2,
and a 57 b tion identified as Option 3.
ematic is that of Option 1. This represents 87 total
b is is the $44 million estimated construction cost. And you
ca that the elements include CSU beds, and those are 45 in
num er; Medicare beds, 15 in number; and acute beds, 15 in number;
as well as the 12 emergency beds. The area of this option is 60,000
square foot.
Option 2, total beds, 72, 45 CSU beds, 15 Medicare/hospital
Page 107
June 27, 2023
beds, and the 12 ESAC or emergency beds.
Option 3 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's the square footage of
Option 2?
MR. FINN: The square footage is 52- -- fifty -two -five. \Vs,
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. FINN: And this option is estimated at $39 millios�
Option 3, total beds is 57, $34 million in estimated e and this
facilitywould be limited to 45 CSU beds and 15 eme beds. I
y
will say that staff and the team, more to the point, tire project
deliveryteam is recommending the bare min' aFour delivery g
team would even consider would be Option 2. of is
recommending and the delivery team is r mmending Option No. 1.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wh e square footage of 3?
Did I miss it on this slide? I was �ooki for it.
MR. FINN: I think -- if we ku Mr. Chairman, I think this
slide provides -- provides alleYeah.
ormation for youCHAIRMAN LoC
MR. FINN: --a w s a cost per square foot of all the
options. If I -- if I mayostart. At the left-hand side, when we came
to you in Febru relative to the zoning, we did not have the
construction a ag on board, and we were using estimates that
probably ere ittle bit inadequate.
At tha t in time, our estimated cost was $29 million for
cons Unfortunately, when we brought the professionals in,
o erts in, more to the point, those estimates -- those estimates
ha sen quite a bit. In large part, we're presenting you multiple
options because of that substantial increase in cost so that the Board
actually does have some options to consider.
The second column in from the left deals with the Option No. 1.
Option No. 1, as I mentioned before, 45 adult CSU beds, 15 acute
June 27, 2023
beds, 15 Medicare beds, 12 ESAC beds, with an estimated cost of
43 million. And as we talked about 60,000 square foot at a pretty
substantial cost per square foot, reflecting the fact that the 30 -- 30
combined acute Medicare beds are actually hospital beds in nature
that we're providing dining -- kitchen and dining facilities to a
hospital -level construction standard. C
One of the questions that we want to make sure that is 1144 %
understood is what's going to happen at the existing DavN wrence
Center campus after the new facility is built. The e facility
will continue to have 15 existing children CSU be tinue to have
15 detox beds. Three existing emergency be w ecome
children's emergency beds. And what is left i a o ential there
because they still have some real estate u r t e roofs for
30 -- 30-bed future expansion subject 'c ing and program needs.
And that may seem a little c to you, and if you're a little
bit confused, I'm going to make a at I drive you right over the
edge with this little I -chart.
On the left-hand sid avid Lawrence Center campus as it
exists today or before the 'lity's built, and you can see they
presently have 30 dultS,OVbeds there. And what we've tried to do
is just show you w that -- how that's going to travel into the future,
and those wiljb�,come future bed capacity once this new facility is
constructe .
One oW most important considerations is the fiscal impact.
The s currently at 30 percent design. As I just mentioned to
y ve three design/construction options, as we talked about in
Sli 0. The estimated budgets here are set against the
programmed amount of surtax money. If we look at Option 1, the
programmed amount was $25 million. Approximately three goes to
engineering design and architectural services. Set against the
construction estimate leaves us a funding estimate or a funding delta
Page 109
June 27, 2023
of about $22 million.
There are some other considerations that we need to -- we need
to include in our discussion. There is an estimated 4.4, and that's a
percentage of the construction cost that's going to be necessary for
furniture, fixtures, and equipment for the facility. That is not N
reflected in the $44 million number that we're discussing toda Iq a d
looking for direction on.
There's also likely to be an ongoing operating cost. Oe initial
estimates provided by David Lawrence Center after - r
considering program revenue and grant sources, t icipate a
$4 million funding shortfall that has to be co v d en this facility
is fully operational.
As a follow-on on that, the County ager and myself met
with key community leaders on these aspects of the
program. We met with consider a u ess in those discussions.
We still haven't achieved an actua commitment on community
funding for this important pro' ut we're hopeful -- while hope
isn't necessarily a goods we're hopeful that we can achieve
some of those funding go hrough community sources.
The fiscal impact as it involves the surtax funding, because of
the timing of when we're going to achieve our -- the overall
community -wide $490 million on the program, is going to allow us to
run the col4ectiNns through December of this year. Relative to what
we expect eive against our programmed 420 million, we expect
to se illion in surtax, leaving us with about a $71 million
Ea delta for us to move forward with some of these critical
pr 'ec s. A portion -- a portion of that delta can be used to fund all
or some of this project delta we're talking about today.
I bring us to the recommendation. Our recommendation is to
get authorization to proceed with the Option 1 design for a total of
87 -- 87 beds.
Page 110
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got Commissioner
Hall lit up. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Finn, can you go back to that
slide that shows the original and then all the options with the changes
of money. No, keep going.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The slide that had the proA11
which was like 29 million that shows --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right there. That one right there.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So in the beoie had 54,000
square feet that included 87 beds. Then Optimps up to
60,000 square feet with the same 87 beds. S00 square
feet at 732 a foot. That's 4.4 million. AVA I was just -- I'm just
asking why the increase of square foot the increase of the 4.4.
I can see the difference in money. W e square footage?
MR. FINN: And I'm goin t%, ing up Javier Salazar up here to
speak -- to speak to the actual ' cal way he met the program
needs.
COMMISSIONER L: Sure.
MR. SALAZAR: oGood afternoon. Javier Salazar with RG
Architects.
So reall r all good question. So for those of you that are not
familiar w'th t design process, you start with the programming
requiremen 'ght, which is just pretty much listing you're going to
need e pe of spaces with this type of program associated with it.
And the you would create some, you know, grossing factors
assVted with it, right, so that we can quantify, you know,
circulation and so on.
The specific need -- so what you saw in the 54 was the initial
program itself. So there wasn't really any spatial design associated
with it. So then once you translate that into an actual design, then
Page 111
June 27, 2023
these type of facilities are inherently not very efficient from a
circulation perspective, because you've got to be able to lock all the
different components and have free access individually from the
other ones, and that's where that bump happened from the 54 to the
60. So the 60 is based on an actual spatial -- spatial design as N
opposed to the 54 is just programmatically specific. �+
COMMISSIONER HALL: Gotcha.
MR. SALAZAR: Does that answer your question
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, sir. Thank y A•
MR. SALAZAR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissi n ers.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: A qui uestion for
Mr. Finn. You said the sales tax collecti will end in December of
this year, and that's because we will h�Meded the 490 million
that was originally programmed. e'1million of that 490- went
to the cities, and you have 71 milli n xtra over the 490-.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER RS: So the question is, does any
of that 71 million have to shared with the cities?
MR. FINN: he distribution of the surtax occurs at the state
level. So this i dependent of the cities relative to receiving our
share. So le d it another way. The state distributes the surtax,
so the citi w1 lso get their share but directly through the state.
COM IONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So we will get -- we
have ,a a 71 million. And I say "extra" in quotes, because
o s everything's gone up, all the other projects. But you're
su t at we have $71 million over and above what we had
anticipated?
MR. FINN: That is -- that is what our estimates show us, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. I just want to make
sure we didn't have to -- that the number might have been lower
Page 112
June 27, 2023
because of the share for the cities. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any other questions?
(No response.)
MS. PATTERSON: I've got nobody lit up here. Anythin ?
MR. FINN: Would you like to hear from the folks that ha
joined us to speak on this item at this time? I know we have
number of speakers, including folks from David Lawrence.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. How many p_ 'c speakers
do we have on?
MR. MILLER: Eight.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Le e r m public
speakers, because they might bring up somethi g at then --
MR. MILLER: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -;y , the people that are in
the room might want to address, s .�,
MR. MILLER: Your first a r is Father Michael Orsi, and
he'll be followed by Dudley G te.
FATHER ORSI: I' to you an offer you can't refuse.
I have been in cont ac ith many people who have very, very
serious mental problem,*: have been long associated with St.
Matthew's Hous We can no longer continue without the help of
the David La r ce enter. This is a wonderful partnership that we
have.
I'm at our hospitals practically every day and go to the
emer om, and, inevitably, there is a sheriffs car outside. It's
a 1 g door of the Sheriff s Department bringing people in and
th inging people out, releasing them back into the community.
And even some of the sheriffs -- the deputy sheriffs say to me,
Father, we need a facility to put these people in, and so, too, the
nurses. They tell me the same thing, and the doctors.
I'm also involved with Neumann high school, Catholic high
Page 113
June 27, 2023
school. So I come in contact with a lot of the students, and, believe
me, these young people have some very, very serious problems, and,
from time to time, we have used the David Lawrence Center, but we
do need more help for students who are suffering drugs, alcohol,
depression and suicidal tendencies.
In a county like ours, Collier County, there is no reason e
should not have a facility that is suitable for the needs of th� unty;
it should be a five-star facility because that's who we ar the
money is here. The money is here. Gentlemen, yo the
money is here. I know the money is here.
And I'm not letting David Lawrence Cen o hook. As
you well know, I'm not always supportive of e �e thing being handed
out by the government. So there has to b artnership. And I've
spoken with Mr. Burgess, Chairma%B onetic). And the
goodwill that these gentlemen ex 6a the need that we have, I
am sure that we can expeditious) a ption 1 into effect as soon as
possible.
Let me tell you one ing. I don't know if I'm allowed to
mention God at a public , but I will. I was at St. Matthew's
House, and whene-er vyI;
�e needed something -- and, of course, we're a
religious -based organization, faith -based organization -- I would
always say, and our director would say, and some of the board
members, ' �wied it, God will give it to us. And I'm telling you,
gentlemen, eed it, and God will give it to us.
ou.
oo'�MILLER: Your next speaker is Dudley Goodlette. He'll
be followed by Trista Meister. Mr. Goodlette's been ceded three
additional minutes from Jessica Siefer, who is sitting right there.
Mr. Goodlette.
MR. GOODLETTE: Good afternoon. Dudley Goodlette, and
I'm here in sort of two roles here. First I'm going to read a letter that
Page 114
June 27, 2023
each of you has received from Garrett Richter, but I think the people
in the audience and the public would benefit from hearing what he
has to say. He couldn't be here today, so I'm the poor substitute.
And I will have a couple of comments after reading his letter as well.
This is addressed, of course, to the Board of County
Commissioners. Garrett Richter is the Florida market presid
First Foundation Bank.
Dear Chairman LaCosta -- LoCastro, I'm sorry. 0
Commissioners, each of you, along with the people i room, all
have at least one thing in common. We are intere the
well-being of our community and in the well- in our citizens.
The interest motivated each of you to run or pu lic office. It
motivates you each day that you are calle n to make a decision, a
decision that will improve our comrgu admire your dedication
and appreciate your commitment.
The discussion you are bein s d to consider is whether or not
we acknowledge our shortsig ss when we approved the partial
funding for the behavior receiving center and revise the
amount to reflect tremen and unplanned delays and to participate
in the ongoing operatiopal costs of this extremely needed facility.
It's been sa' efore that we have no primary mental health
facilities in o om unity. The David Lawrence Center and the
Collier Co my '1-- our county jail is entirely funded with tax
dollars. O %unty will -- our county jail is the most expensive and
least . e means of treating mental illness and the impact of such
to munity.
e David Lawrence Center, on the other hand, is a highly
respected treatment center that our community is proud of, and it
remains the most effective and efficient way to meet the mental
health challenges in our community.
I'm confident that most everybody in the room today has been
Page 115
June 27, 2023
directly or indirectly impacted by mental health or addiction issues.
When we hear of the challenges that the David Lawrence Center
takes on, we often whisper about them, and when these issues
directly confront us or someone we love, we pray about them.
We have all heard the saying that hindsight is 20/20. In
hindsight, we should have foreseen the rise in costs of the sig ifi ant
delays associated with the receiving center, but we didn't. pe
we'll use foresight today as you consider the request by unty
staff and the key stakeholders deeply involved in this ct for
adjusting funding and future operational support. ight calls for
this facility to be completed without downsizi Itoa imize its
immediate impact and in realization that in a c-�fit�nuin growing
p gg g
community, these needs will continue to lode.
The need to treat every form of ess and rehabilitation
in our community will always be te. How we decide to
fulfill that mandate will separate a et's be proactive today and not
reactive tomorrow. Please s t in favor of this necessary
change, please vote for t e and, finally, please know that your
community's service is ap iated and is making a long-term
difference. *#*
If, "learn, e and return" is a good recipe for life, and I believe
it is, learn fro ur st shortsightedness. Let's earn a reputation
that we ar ro of, and I thank you for returning your talents and
experience is community.
ou for your support.
merely add to those comments that I have had a chance to
re your staff report. I think Mr. Finn has done an excellent job
of outlining what the challenges are, and I would hope that after you
have an opportunity to review the comments from others that you
will hear from and to -- and having carefully scrutinized the report
from your staff, I hope that you will move in the direction of
Page 116
June 27, 2023
succeeding in that regard.
And many of you may know, I had -- was pretty involved in the
passage of the one -- the penny sales tax a few years ago, and
it's -- the fact that it has exceeded the expected -- in a year ahead of
time the expected resources that are going to be available is a red
credit. And I think that going forward, the David Lawrence
and the hospitals will continue to try to raise the level of int t in
the part of those institutions for funding this going forw nd we
appreciate all that you are doing.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you,
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Tria�ieister. She'll be
p y
followed by Ray Steadman.
MS. MEISTER: Hi, thank yob. ding a letter on behalf
of Richard Weisberg.
Dear Commissioners, my na e Rich Weisberg. I'm a
commissioner for mental heal substance abuse for the State of
Florida. Unfortunately, t be here today because I have a
finance subcommittee for State today at 1:00, which conflicted
with the time -certain flange.
I urge you today to pass the increased funds needed for the
David Lawre Mental Health Center Project. There have been
many obst cle er the last five -plus years to get here. Five -plus
years a o, a community voted in a penny tax specifically for
this r s It is my understanding this tax has been so successful it
is year early. It is also my understanding that the funds are
av le from the penny tax for the additional funds needed for the
proj ect.
This building allows for the maximum increase in bed capacity,
which is critically important for our great and growing community.
My family has experienced this firsthand with our middle
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June 27, 2023
daughter who, when Baker Acted, slept on the floor at David
Lawrence Center. Had she been sent to Miami, who knows what
might have happened. This week she graduated in nursing at the top
of her class, all due to David Lawrence Center and the hard work my
daughter has put in.
I would like to take a moment and reference the 2023+
Community Conversation Report on the table of Southwest rida.
This is a regional initiative among the Collier Commun'
Foundation, Charlotte Community Foundation, and t
Collaboratory.
The issue ranked No. 2 out of 10 as mostV4fZ for Southwest
Florida is mental health and substance abuse. tTis ranks No. 2 in
Collier and Lee County.
As a member of the state -- Flori Commission for
Mental Health and Substance Abu*e Sn e Finance Subcommittee, I
want to be able to proudly referenS, my community, how my
community, Collier County, i ing together and doing their part.
Lastly,it is the moral th Ito do. Sometimes the moral thin to
g g
do gets overlooked and pu*d aside. Please do not do this today.
Please, I ask you a a Collier County resident, as a husband and a
father, to approv, e additional funds for this project.
Thank y ve uch for your time.
;e�b
RIL R: Your next speaker is Ray Steadman. He'll be
folloit Donahue.
ADMAN: Thank you, Commissioners, for taking the
time ar me today. My name is Ray Steadman, and I currently
se s the vice president of programs for St. Matthew's House.
As many of you know, St. Matthew's House serves the
homeless, addicted, and food -insecure populations of Collier County
and has since 1988. St. Matthew's House has served 1,865
individuals in the past 12 months, and 36 percent of those individuals
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June 27, 2023
have a diagnosed mental illness. Many of those not in the 36 percent
experience symptoms of mental health and go undiagnosed while
living in a state of homelessness.
Thankfully, we have a provider in our community, the David
Lawrence Center, that assesses and treats the mentally ill homele of
Collier County, those housed in our care and those not house �+
providing stability and ongoing therapy, treatment, and me ions.
The success of St. Matthew's House residential pro Qs is
often spoke of in a positive light at many events and e settings
throughout Southwest Florida, mentioned by som u in the
room, city officials of Naples, former residen u nt residents of
Collier County, program graduates, the news Ifral, and family of
those who have been in our care; howeve 0,h
e success we enjoy can
never be attributed to our efforts alone ly heavily on the
partnerships like the one with the awrence Center that
provide a level of excellence that r eputation reflects and our
residents enjoy.
Many of the reside i atthew's House are often shared
patients of the David Law ce Center. Thankfully, we have not
experienced a disrLIptio2 in care due to the increased demand being
placed on them 1 health provider. Strong community partners
like the Davi wrence Center are paramount to the success of the
rehabilitat' e e its of St. Matthew's House programs.
We ar ding with the David Lawrence Center and echo their
petiti reater capacity to address the needs of community
nyfNNwho are in crisis due to acute impairment, an episode of
m , or thoughts of self -harm, just to name a few.
As a representative of St. Matthew's House, we would ask you
to vote to proceed with a recommendation for Option 1 to accept this
project update benefiting the mentally ill of Collier County. Thank
you.
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June 27, 2023
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker April Donahue, will be
joining us via Zoom, and she will be followed by Jason Cooper.
April, you have three minutes.
MS. DONAHUE: Thank you, and good afternoon, Chair and
Commissioners. I'm April Donahue, executive director of Colli
County Medical Society, and I speak on behalf of the CCMS of
directors.
We would echo the previous comments offered an aort the
request for an increase in funding the new Collier Co ental
health facility building, and ask you to approve th osed option,
as these are our excess surtax funds and the n ntal health
beds in our community is so great, the CCMS oa d elieves that
choosing the option for the 87 beds, as pr 'ous y planned, is the best
choice for the health and safety of o}ir ity.
This long-term investment is efficient means of spending
our tax dollars on mental health atv i 1 help prevent us from getting
further and further behind the 'ncreasing demand.
Thank you for your ay.
MR. MILLER: Yo ext speaker is Jason Cooper, and he will
be followed by Edward Morton.
MR. COO : Good afternoon, Chair and esteemed County
Commission y name's Jason Cooper. I'm the assistant
director of dev pment for Home Base Florida Veteran and Family
Care.
represent General Fred Franks, a man of extraordinary
se d honor, and our honorary director. General Franks is a
gr e of the United States Military Academy at West Point, a
seasoned veteran of the Vietnam War, and the strategic mind behind
the Left Hook maneuver that brought us to victory in Desert Storm.
His leadership commanded over 150,000 troops and revolutionizing
mechanized warfare.
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June 27, 2023
Despite a debilitating injury, his service spanned over 35 years,
earning him too many prestigious awards to name today.
General Franks has been a member of our community here in
Collier County for the last 25 years, contributing to the welfare of our
veteran community. Unfortunately, he was not able to join us h
today but has trusted me to communicate our endorsement fo �+
increasing the funding for the construction of the Collier C
Central Receiving Facility. O
The most recent VA annual suicide prevention r underlines
this urgency. Published in September of 2022, it s that the rate
of veteran suicide in 2020 was 57 percent hig t t e average
adult. Here in Collier County, one in four ad i ides is a veteran.
Our local clinical programs reported ecord number of
veterans and their families seeking lie health assistance. Our
partners at David Lawrence Cente the leadership of Scott
Burgess, have made significant r ss with this project.
We firmly believe that t a ' lity, approved for the
infrastructure surtax in' a priority within our community.
The Collier County Centr eceiving Facility will provide
comprehensive care to those with mental health emergencies and
address the invi ' e wounds of service. This is crucial in preventing
the devastati onsequences of untreated mental health conditions
such as su' ide.
As a c at veteran myself, as is most of our staff, we
unde e true toll of service and sacrifice. When our men and
w e the oath to serve, they trust that we will be there for
Offi Nthen they return home. Your support is critical in fulfilling
this implied trust in making this central -- the mental health central
receiving facility a reality.
The center will ensure veterans and our community can access
the care they deserve through their service and sacrifice for us all.
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June 27, 2023
Thank you for your commitment to our veteran community.
Together we can make a profound difference in the lives of those
who have selflessly served in our country. Let us be measured by
how we support our most vulnerable and our veterans.
Mahatma Gandhi once said, the true measure of any socie n
be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. Our
today will echo this sentiment. A -
Thank you. o
MR. MILLER: Your final registered speaker o item is
Edward Morton.
MR. MORTON: Good afternoon.
I think we've heard a lot about square foo and dollars and
cents. I should preface everything by sa g, I m also a veteran. I
have seen up close and personal, hayirV on active duty from
1969 to 1972 as a captain in the U*wit&f Mates Army, all the rigors of
not only war, but the toll that it tal s7bn human beings.
Human dignity is very h t describe. It's very hard to define.
It's a lot like obscenity. w it when we see it. We feel it.
It's part of our fiber of ou DNA. It's what we believe -- what we
believe in ourselve , of
jrvhat we stand for, what we represent.
I would lik think that our community -- as I look around the
country and I ee the ravages of human dignity and I see homeless
camps an se terans killing themselves and people from all
walks of li ering from the rigors and the problems of human and
mental ill s, behavioral health, I would like to think I live within a
c *y -- and have for the past 50 years in a community that
rA;itself on not just keeping up with but advancing the cause of
human dignity by working together to take care of all of us, from our
young to our old.
As vice chairman of the board of Florida Gulf Coast University,
I see every day and hear every day the challenges faced by our young
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June 27, 2023
students and by some of our older students and the rigors of academia
and the pressure placed on people.
I've also been the CEO, as most of you know, for 35 years, CFO
or CEO of NCH. I've chaired the Chamber of Commerce. I've been
around this community my entire adult life other than my milita
service.
So I implore you, please allow us to plan for the future'�aow us
to provide for the dignity of every human being that resi,�l�n Collier
County, allow us for the opportunity to provide both behavioral and
mental health. This entire community needs your ort, and I
would ask for it today.
Thank you very much for everything that o re doing for this
community. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was our fin er, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ok I'm going to -- I'm going to
just lead off unless somebody ha mac,-destion. But I don't see
anybody lit up here.
I'll just say to my coMea Us, let's not make a mistake here
today. You know, this is *his is a great investment of our dollars,
and I would hate to skirxp on a facility that's long overdue.
And a lot oople spoke about veterans, but this is a facility
that's going t 1p r entire community across the Board. So, I
mean, this is a -brainer for me. I've seen us put money in certain
directions e years and currently sometimes where we scratch
our is isn't one of them.
me, you know, it's disappointing the costs that have gone
up, that's not something we can control. It's nobody's fault in
this room. Construction costs have risen across the board. But
when it comes to mental health, I hope all my colleagues agree we
want to measure twice, cut once, and not skimp on a facility that a
couple years down the road, our replacements are sitting up here
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June 27, 2023
saying would have, could have, should have.
So I don't know if I've got -- Commissioner Saunders is lit up
here, but, you know, I'll make a motion to approve Option 1, you
know, with -- with no reservations.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, I'll start off by
seconding your motion. I agree with everything that you 'maid.
If we're going to do this, we want to do it right, and the _i i way to
do it is Option 1. That's building for the future. A thG- folks that
spoke today, they were very elegant -- eloquent, n ant,
eloquent. They were elegant, too, but that's t e nt.
And, you know, they spoke from the hea a d think you did,
too, Mr. Chairman, that this is something t i really needed. This
is something that will serve the citizen lier County that are in
need of these service. It will hel eriff s Department in how
they have to deal with mental he 1 sues, but, most importantly, it's
going to help those people th these services, so I'm pleased to
second your motion.
MS. PATTERSON: air, if I may.
CHAIRMAN LoCAS RO: Yes, ma'am.
MS. PATT SON: I'm sorry. We failed to recognize that
Sheriff Ramb s is re as well as Scott Burgess, and we weren't
sure if yo wo like to invite them up to just say a few words
before you ize your discussion at whatever point you see it
appropr'at do so.
CHo AIRMAN LoCASTRO: Not really. No I'just kidding.
y �m J . g
d offer to them if they would like to make some comments. I
don' feel like I feel the negative moj o from any of my colleagues.
So I would say Sheriff and Scott, you know, the floor is yours if
you would like to say something.
One of the pieces of guidance, though, I will give the county
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June 27, 2023
staff is, you know, this is a big undertaking. This is a big dollar
figure. And so if it does pass here, you know, we've had projects
where, you know, down the road, then the County Attorney was
telling us we didn't get the best bang for our buck.
So even though we're voting on the -- you know, the Option
and not cutting any corners, let's make sure that we spend the �+
taxpayer dollars wisely. You know, that's a nice big, fat, r_l
figure of 44 million but, you know, we've had other pro' Qhat
were very expensive and then a year later, we didn't e we got
the best bang for buck.
This is not a facility where we want to m' riate funds or
not get our full dollars' worth. But I think the s so many people
involved in this project, there's so much o sig t, that I don't believe
that's going to happen. And we hale ctor that definitely has
a great reputation here in the co
m
But Mr. Burgess or Sheriff R osk, either one of you, the floor
is yours if you'd like to make ent and talk us out of anything.
SHERIFF RAMBO ood afternoon, Chair and Board, and
that's what I'm concerned It's -- you know, I know all of your
commitment. I mean, you now, if you look back two years, the
commitment tha a as a Board made, along with the partners here,
to create a str is an to address mental health issues, one of the
elements tha as more resources, more services. That's kind of
where this from.
entioned to you during our budget review, that I would
re d to you, and still do, Option No. 1, based on the need in
ou munity. And on that I'm just going to leave it alone because
you're all headed in the direction that I believe is in the best interest
of Collier County and its residents.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Burgess, did you care to make any statements from the
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June 27, 2023
podium?
MR. BURGESS: No. I will allow you to continue,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I was going to say, after
hearing from the Sheriff, now I'm kind of on the fence.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then, Commissioner Hall,
on deck, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. a r.
And I'm -- I'm going to say it out loud. The ne eal.
There's no argument that the need is real. I woul o have
greater assurance as to how we're going to pa r s.
I saw, when Mr. Finn was slipping throug e slides, there's a
4-plus-million-dollar deficit in operating Ads hat are going to be
requisite. Right now in the infancy st his project,
where -- and I don't know where t �, ought there was 25 million
originally appropriated in the surt d then it bumped to 29 here in
these slides. No?
MS. PATTERSON: ere comes Ed.
COMMISSIONER ANIEL: So there's -- I have a
$19 million deficit in the estimated construction costs at this stage
today. They are not going down, those construction costs.
MS. PA T RSON: Understood. So I'll answer a little, and
then I'll :hn d i er to Ed. We have been meeting for the last
several s was indicated by some of the speakers, about
exactly things.
Obously, we need to do the things we need to do to keep this
project moving, very important. It's already -- you know, it's been
this long where we have not gone to construction due to the
constraints of zoning and other things.
However, facing down these cost escalations, amongst other
things, we have had some scope adjustment and things like that, all
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June 27, 2023
that have been brought to the Board. We're facing a much larger
project than initially anticipated very early on by the voters, but the
need is not different. It's getting greater every day.
So we did sit down with our partners and have had really good
conversations that this is a "Collier County as a county" problem.
This isn't just a Collier County Government problem as far as 1
we get over these funding hurtles.
And so our plan is to continue to meet and to look t�O w we
can partner. Now, as far as the construction goes, as et further
into design, it will open more doors for us to purs ey other than
the surtax. That's definitely an option. But s hat we can
leverage additional grant dollars to put toward h construction is
something that we and David Lawrence a ommitted to doing
together so that if we could shrink duo ount of overage from
the surtax that has to be consume N a possibility.
We have viewed three prof ec eing the priority projects for
any surtax overage. We've d' ed all of them with you. That is
the Sheriffs forensics bu* his mental health central receiving
facility, and, obviously, th veterans' nursing home that we discussed
today. So that is how We've positioned it to you -all as far as the
consumption of those additional surtax dollars. But, again, pursuing
grants and otlIerfunaling sources.
On t fu . ure, fixtures, and equipment, and on the ongoing
fundin of acility, we also have had conversations with our
part t that where people can step up to help us. And there's
n that's too small. So isn't -- we are not looking for one
en o come in and take the entire amount, but any amounts that
people can contribute -- our partners in the hospital -- we'll be
continuing to have those conversations as we -- as we firm up these
budgets, as we look at this construction cost, and as we would -- what
it looked like what it -- to operate -- the true cost of operating the
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June 27, 2023
facility.
So these are things you're going to continue to hear from us.
We have heard you loud and clear, and we will continue to work
through that to bring every funding opportunity to the table to bring
this important project home. N
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I've got to like
2016 and -- the need was as prevalent then as it is now, and
community hasn't done -- I'm going to support this effo ®the way,
today. I'm going to vote -- I'm going to vote for us t e forward.
But it's -- and I say this: There are other ways of plishing the
service of this need. They have been propos a ould like to
know -- I would like to see some -- and I don't a t -- you know,
Mr. Morton talked about the -- I believe id. I think you were
talking about the morality of what ittis 're doing and how
we're moving forward and satisfyi 1 dire need for our
community.
One of the -- one of the c' stances that I learned early on
was that our j ail facilitie e largest mental institution that
Collier County currently s and operates.
And for me, hat kwould like to see is a comparison with
regard to the off of those expenses in relationship to the benefit of
a central recev i g facility and the treatment afforded to those
patients of ett the exposure that we have in our jail system. The
sheriff and eed early on that there was little to no rehabilitation
that h incarceration, little to -- little to no rehabilitation that
c11 tincarceration.
the -- I can certainly see the value. I can see the human need
and aspect there, but -- and it doesn't come with a "but," but it comes
with a "but," and that is we have to be accountable for what it is that
we're doing. And it has -- it has to have validity over and above the
human aspect. It has to be -- there has to be a value attributable so
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June 27, 2023
that we're not just continually creeping forward with an increase in
expenses and an increase in operations and an increase over -- across
the board.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. And we can work on that
analysis for you. W\*,
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall and th
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just want to go on re ®saying I
don't want to get in God's way.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Chicken.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not me, no of nohow.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's s r d.
FATHER ORSI: You better be, too
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Coo er Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUND st real quickly, this
morning Senate President Passido o as here. She was talking
about how this past session, h o s was workforce
housing/affordable housing; she did a tremendous job in bringing
some very significant legislation to the floor and ultimately being
signed by the governor to address that issue, and I think that effort
will pay off in terms of tremendous numbers of workforce and
affordable ho sipig hits going up very quickly.
Butt en 61tf, said, as we were talking about the veterans' nursing
home, that oming year, she was going to dedicate her time to
healt d to making sure that Floridians have access to quality
c
the message there is we have an advocate that is the Senate
President, we have a lobbyist that is very effective, and now we have
a staff that has a mission to seek funding from all sources possible.
Dudley Goodlette and I had the opportunity to serve in the
legislature back in the old days, and we can both attest to the fact that
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June 27, 2023
the legislature likes to fund projects where there's a significant
amount of local funding. This is one where it would be hard to top
in terms of local funding. So I think you'll be successful in -- and I
know Mr. Goodlette will be out there helping, and I certainly will as
well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I just want to add be �, NT
call for the vote, so we've had a lot of people that have com tte'
podium talking about how this facility is long overduer quired
and how much they will utilize it from, you know, St thew's
House saying how important it is that they utilize hospitals in
town, how much they utilize it, our Sheriffs c I as going to
mentioned Senator Passidomo, exactly her co nts.
And then, obviously, this is a county cili y, but, you know, it's
in partnership with working closely�w* *d Lawrence Center,
but, obviously, this is a big advant you.
So, you know, I've just mentiZ a lot of very generous groups,
and I'm thinking of just how i sive our community, our
140
philanthropic communit fund the Baker Senior Center, how
people stepped forward, a he important mission of that facility.
This, to me, is something that is, you know -- not to say that the
Senior Center is 'mportant, but this is at that much higher level
when it comet j si ificant need.
So I on' t Mr. Goodlette on the spot, but he represents a
circle of pe that have cared about this community for a long time.
I enj g on your road, sir.
know that there's people in this room and outside of this
ro o include Senator Passidomo, that to find that delta, especially
when we committed to the blue ribbon option, I think that sends a
signal that we're committed, but we need some assistance.
So all these people that are going to benefit and utilize, you
know, this facility, you know, our challenge to you is step forward
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June 27, 2023
and make this a true community project. We're making the tough
decision here on how to best use taxpayer dollars. But as
Commissioner McDaniel said, we have a couple of deltas. And so if
this is truly going to be a community project where we're all standing
arm in arm and cutting a blue ribbon, money needs to come from
multiple sources. And so we have time to do that, but, you �y
we're making a big decision here.
So having said that, I've got a motion -- oh, I'm so 've got
Commissioner Daniel lit up -- McDaniel. Sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is a c nt. I don't
want to belabor the point, but while I have yo 1 h room, one of
the things that our community's direly in deficl o is adolescent care.
And so any expansion that you have the c city of putting in place,
take care of the pipeline that's feed11g t system. That will
reduce the requisites on the adult
So as you're moving forwar 1, o s on the adolescent
community. One of the most nctional facilities that we have is
the operations over at th nd no slant on the folks that are in
there working, but Mr. Bu ss and I have talked about this at length,
the Sheriff and I talkedabout this at length, and the dire need for our
community for cility for our adolescent population.
And if y wa a long-term societal shift, work with
the -- wor wi e young that are going to feed that adult pipeline,
and you w ave the requisite of these cost overruns. That's just a
little - e.
�L IRMAN LoCASTRO: And to Mr. Finn, who's hiding in
the back -- I'm looking at you -- on time on budget, or early and
cheaper. As my grandmother would say, "capisce"?
MR. FINN: Copy that, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've got a motion and a
second. All in favor of Option I?
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June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Ave.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:
Opposed? t
It passes unanimoU;I$
0
Father Orsi
around a basket for a collection. Just so you I
count for Sunday church. He always tells me,
collection, he'll see you on Sunday.
Okay. County Manager, we're -
MS. PATTERSON: Nope,
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:.
MS. PATTERSON:
CHAIRMAN LoC
1 be passing
, this doesn't
's no
11B?
sing to -- sorry?
we going to 11 B?
going back to 9C.
Ah, okay.
jumping around.
MS. PATTE SOI*. 11 right.
CHAIRZ%l
oCASTRO:
clears.
Item
E
I knew we were
9C is a recommendation --
Okay. Let's wait till the room
ahead, Ms. Patterson.
INANCE CREATING THE UNPAVED PRIVATE ROAD
RGENCY REPAIR MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT
BY AUTHORIZING A LEVY OF NOT TO EXCEED ONE (1.0)
MIL OF AD VALOREM TAXES PER YEAR. (THIS ITEM WAS
CONTINUED FROM THE FEBRUARY 28, 2023, AND MARCH
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June 27, 2023
28, 2023, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETINGS)
MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE AUGUST MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO
MS. PATTERSON: 9C is a recommendation that the
adopts an ordinance creating the unpaved private road e
repair municipal service taxing unit by authorizing a lev
exceed one mill of ad valorem taxes per year.
This item was continued from the February
March 28th, 2023, Board of County Commis
Ms. Trinity Scott, your department head
Management Services Department, is he&i(
A
MS. SCOTT: Good afternoor� &
Following our meeting in M
Transportation Management Serl
Commissioner McDaniel to
specifically with regard
Attachment J in yc
j'�,IQb23, and the
d'eting.
ransportation
Trinity Scott.
Board directed
.)kto go back and work with
iron out some of the details
of -out process.
ida packet is the item that's up on the
Board that provide some clarification just with regard to the items
that we were dis sing during the prior meeting.
The firs 's he dvisory committee makeup would be one
represent 've Collier County EMS, North Collier Fire Control
and Rescu rict, Greater Naples Fire Control, Immokalee Fire, as
well ollier County Sheriffs Office.
we would come forward with the list of roadways each
that the advisory committee would submit a list of roadways
that they deemed impassable for emergency vehicles, and that the
disrepair is a danger to the health, safety, and welfare to citizens of
Collier County. They would provide that list to the MSTU project
manager.
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June 27, 2023
The MSTU project manager would compile that list. It would
be ranked by the committee, and we would develop a budget based
on the anticipated revenues. So we would -- if we had 10 roads, we
would develop a budget, and we would be able to go worst first as far
down the list as we could based on the revenues.
There was some discussion with regard to data manage ,
how would we document how we would -- how much mon e
spent on each road. Those actual expenditures per roa would
be documented in a manner just as we do with our o my roads,
utilizing our Cartegraph software. That's our ass agement
software. So we would be able to determine, s n any link -- we
would save those work orders and be able to p a data from our
system. And, most importantly, I think t biggest conversation that
we had was about the opt -out policy. a hat would work.
So in order to opt out, an ind' * v roperty owner would
submit an application to the advi ommittee demonstrating that
the road is passable -- the roa o 'ust their area in front of their
individual property bou - hat there's a sustainable maintenance
plan in place for the next fiscal years, and a signed statement
agreeing to maintain the road and remove any obstructions that would
impact emergeno services.
That ap tion would go to the advisory committee. Based on
the inform do ovided, they would approve the opt -out application.
The pro e ner would then need to reapply at the end of five
year irm that they have a continued maintenance plan in
p at such time during that time frame that the road becomes
im able to emergency vehicles and emergency maintenance is
required, those previously opted -out property owners would become
subject to the MSTU.
That concludes the items that I have to present, and then I would
defer to Commissioner McDaniel if he had any additional
Page 134
June 27, 2023
information.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- I'd like to -- if I may,
I'd like to confer with the County Attorney with regard to this opt -out
provision. I know we talked about it for quite some time, and it's
been a bone of contention.
My question is -- I don't live on Platt Road, let's just say
and I own 300 feet of that road, and 30 feet of the 60 feet ealy
Went
that's there for the road. I choose to opt out, and my rained
rs don't.
How do we manage my 30-by-300-foot swath of Plaith
regard to the maintenance?
MR. KLATZKOW: The road's either b or it's
not. If the road's being maintained, you can o Mt. That would be
everybody along the road can opt out. If road as a whole -- it's
like a chain. I mean, a chain is only a s its weakest link.
You can't have your part of the ro ained and everybody else
not maintained.
COMMISSIONER McD L: So for clarification purposes,
then, I live on Platt Roa oose to opt out of Platt Road. I
have to agree to a satisfac maintenance agreement and keep the
road up so that it's passable for emergency vehicles?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMI,SSJONER McDANIEL: For an ambulance. I think
that's the s ' u ion we put in there was so was it was passable for an
ambulance, use we have four-wheel drive sheriffs and
four- ive fire trucks and so on.
e entire road of Platt Road would be opted out if a property
0 on Platt Road chose to seek the application and opt out?
MR. KLATZKOW: If the road's properly maintained, you can
opt out of the -- you can opt out of the MSTU.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A property owner --
MR. KLATZKOW: All of them.
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June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- on a road can opt out the
whole road?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. If they've been maintaining the
road, there's no need for them to be in the MSTU.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, please, I'm just --
trying to get this clear in my brain, because it's not what I -- t i
language to me is confusing.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, from a history of this, w ss rted off
where you would have a road that was impassable, and what we
would do is we would go out there, declare the e i,ZQcy, fix the
road, and slap on an MSTU to repay the Cou
's o COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thate t.
MR. KLATZKOW: Your concept e was to expand that, so
rather than do this on a case -by -case.. b 'd have an existing
fund so that you can go there and ALs he road.
COMMISSIONER McDAN
MR. KLATZKOW: W
Correct. I'm -- yes.
are two new commissioners on
the dais who may not have �*w aware of this history.
So your concept was to�,expand this so that you would have a
pool of money so that Viken a road was declared impassable, staff
could just go ou ere and fix the road and be done with it. We
wouldn't havq�go rough the process of setting up an MSTU for
that
NER McDANIEL: Correct.
,ATZKOW: So the premise is to fix impassable roads.
If your maintaining your road, your private road, all right, there is
no need for you to be in this MSTU.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right, right.
And so I'm coming back to my original question. Because the
way I read this, the way I read this opt -out language, it was different
than what you and I had talked about when we were in my office.
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June 27, 2023
I have friends that live over on Rookery Lane down by the
sanctuary, and one of them is a family member of a large road
construction company in the community, and they have millings on
the road. So they aren't going to be -- they can opt out of this MSTU
and shouldn't have to because the road is quite passable.
I'm trying to wrap my arms around the opt -out process fv
property owner on a road. Can one person make a decisio all of
their neighbors? O
MR. KLATZKOW: One person can opt out, al t, but if the
others don't opt out, they're in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Say the wa a nderstand it,
the road -- the whole road has to be passable --
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: --,or can opt out?
MR. KLATZKOW: Correc .
COMMISSIONER HALL: o the road -- if you've got five
property owners and the one y owner in the back has his road
all jacked up, nobody ca p t. lq�So the pressure would be on -- in
the neighborhood. It wo dji't be on us.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. I don't want
the pressure to b n us. And, again, for history purposes, I mean,
I'm the presi o little homeowners association in the Sanctuary
from the y ar 0 when Commissioner Coletta was sitting in this
seat, and b those days, we used to try to establish an MSTU per
road, t never came to fruition. And then we moved into
t ' - system that's been going on for the past 23 years where an
emVncy's declared.
And so my thoughts were if everybody that were residing or
accessing the property via a private road paid a little bit into the
system, into the kitty, we would then, ultimately, bring all of the
roads up to be traversable by an ambulance, and we wouldn't have
Page 137
June 27, 2023
these emergency circumstances.
So the question on this opt -out -- I like the idea of an opt -out
because there are some roads that are private roads that aren't
requisite that don't need to be party to this. But I'm just
looking -- I'm just trying to get the semantics of who can opt ou d
who can't.
Oil Grade Road goes from Oil Well Road clear up to Io alee
Road. Collier Enterprises owns both sides of that road. (Dey
can -- they can take care of their own road. There's y else
that's on that road. They can opt out -- they can o of the
MSTU. That's just one that strikes -- Rooke -- ery Lane is
some of my neighbors. Last week at the CIN eeting, at the
Corkscrew Island Neighborhood Associa ' meeting, some of my
neighbors on Rookery Lane expressed
MS. SCOTT: So my under -- and Jeffs going
to -- Jeff s going to correct me if I' rong -- if there are five -- I'll
go six property owners on a r , if the roadway is not passable,
no one can opt out. If t ay is passable, each individual
property owner would nee t opt out.
MR. KLATZKOWs es.
COMMISS ER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KL W: It's an affirmative action to opt out.
CO I NER McDANIEL: I'm fine with that as a trial
basis. I w ike to cap the first year at a half a mill with an
acco t oming back and not -- set it at a maximum of one, and as
witiM of these MSTUs, we can adjust accordingly based upon
the ed
al determined expenditures. So that's one of the things that I
wou-- I would also like to adjust here. Set it to be a maximum of
one, but the first millage rate levied would be a half a mill.
MS. SCOTT: And, sir, I think that you would actually be
setting that millage rate next year.
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June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand --
MS. SCOTT: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- but I want the language to
stipulate that the first levy would be a half a mill.
MR. KLATZKOW: That -- your ordinance provides a cap
one mill. During your budgetary process, you will set the mi 1 all
of your MSTUs.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I under -- yes, sir. Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner ers.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I hav c 1 of questions.
And I understand where you're trying to get to i t is,
Commissioner McDaniel.
I was initially opposed to this, p I still am, but I want
to explain why and then I want toS
A w questions here.
We have 105 miles of unpaads, according to the executive
summary, and the taxable val ated 372,700,000. One mill
was going to raise 372,9 think we're talking about raising
$1865450.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus or minus.
COMMIS§�O,NER SAUNDERS: Plus or minus.
Now, I 't k ow how much staff time would be involved in
developin thi NThat would be one cost that would -- you'd bear
that cost in loping it. Then every year we would collect
$18610009 t we have to have some way to monitor who opts in,
who opts out, what roads are going to be repaired. And I'm
wondering if you have any idea as to how much it would cost just to
maintain and operate this type of a system. Because we have a lot of
MSTUs, and they're time intensive, but this is one that seems to me
that would require additional staff, perhaps. That's a question.
MS. SCOTT: It may. What I'm going to tell you is for right
Page 139
June 27, 2023
now, our intention is to start this program with our initial Multiple
Services Taxing Benefit Unit staff that we have. We have two
project managers.
You note that in these requirements that I put forth, these
determinations are made by the advisory committee, so it is not o
staff member, our team member, who is going out. So they
collect the information and present it to the advisory comm' ,
trying to reduce that burden on the county team membe Iluch as
possible.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Srro)gram
cutive
summary says that -- down at the bottom just h growth
management impact, it says, if the unpaved ro is
approved, the level of effort necessary to ' lement the program will
be evaluated, and staff will report b4c 3oard if additional staff
or other resources will be required. -�, long will it take you to do
that?
MS. SCOTT: We need what the initial opt -out -- we
don't know. If no one o it's not really a huge over -- you
know, there's not a whole erwork burden and all of that. So it's
probably going to take us a good six months to be able to evaluate
what's coming in, etcetera.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And then I think this
probably ou16.,be a question for the manager and perhaps the
County Att Is there an alternative way to do this? I know
that ther ' een some discussion about spending public money on a
p Q
i�ad. But if we have an unpaved road that's impassable,
sody calls and complains or the Sheriffs Department advises
you that a road is impassable, I think in the past we've simply gone
out and fixed those problems.
MR. KLATZKOW: The current policy is that we will go out,
fix the road, and then charge back the cost to the community through
Page 140
June 27, 2023
an imposed MSTU.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Has that process worked
well or --
MR. KLATZKOW: I'd have to defer to the County Manager
or --
MS. PATTERSON: I have not heard of problems with l
other than we wouldn't know necessarily of every road that'
impassable. But I'll look at Trinity to see what problen)Aaa e arisen
from your side.
MS. SCOTT: We have -- since I've been in
have set up, I believe, one. It's a process that
in it. But, yes, it is a process that does work.
of being able to do it right now.
esition, we
We're reactive
have a method
COMMISSIONER SAUNDEP�S: Then I guess just
from your -- I hate to put you on tl+e Spo , but I'm going to put you on
the spot then. Maybe this is a ti n for the Manager. Is this -- is
this, in your mind, the best w o about this? If it is, I'll support
it. If it's not, then I wo ' . ause I just don't want to create undue
burdens on staff, we're no king about a whole lot of money here
on an annual basis. Aiyd so is the -- is the burden going to be worth
the -- is the pai rth the gain here in terms of what you're going to
get, or I gues sa , is the juice worth the squeeze? Is that the way
it works?
LoC
COMARAPSIONER HALL: You said it before Commissioner
GIMIRMAN LoCASTRO: Dang. I wanted to end with that.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I think to Trinity's point
earlier is that we don't know. It could be a very simple process if we
don't get a lot of opt -outs, but I think the opt -outs have always been
the question, is the layer of complexity that the opt -outs start to add,
and then where do we go from there? We're still at that point left
Page 141
June 27, 2023
with -- we still have our existing process.
But this is an attempt to be more proactive, potentially, but the
question becomes the tolerance of the community on those streets
that are the ones that are affected and whether or not they will try to
opt out or will want to.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And then jus 6&'
last question for the County Attorney in terms of just kind uring
out the boundaries of this. Typically you have an MST t has
some defined boundary, I think.
MR. KLATZKOW: Unincorporated Collier ty.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All r' t. o ny unpaved
road in the county, you don't have to go throug a y descriptions of
those roads or anything? It's just --
MR. KLATZKOW: I think staf 10taff knows what the
unpaved roads are. �,
COMMISSIONER SAUND All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST &ommissioner McDaniel had a
follow-up. IQ V*Md "
COMMISSIONER ANIEL: And, Commissioner
Saunders, just to -- can k-- just to answer maybe a couple of
questions?
COMM O R SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
CO I NER McDANIEL: There have been three
imposed s since I became the commissioner for 5. All three
were --?n as a duplicate on -- Blue Ski, I think's the name of the
roVVtthat goes up to the Nancy Payton Bird Sanctuary, a
Co my -owned piece of property. It fell off into the crick. It fell off
into the canal due to a lack of maintenance even from us, the County,
that utilize the road to access a county road -- or a county property.
And then --
MS. SCOTT: Blue Sage and 42nd, I believe, were the two.
Page 142
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Blue Sage. And then Platt
Road, ultimately, as well. I lost a friend on Platt who -- Rita
Greenberg, back when the Corkscrew Fire Department was still in
existence, couldn't get to him.
Actually, Rita -- the road washed out so bad that it was an
$11,000 one-time expense. The rationale with this is to take �+
proactive stance to assist our residents that need emergenc ices
with this -- with this process and do it in a far more costoative
manner. y
These -- the Platt Road, it was known that w shout for
years, literally years, and could have easily bey i or several
thousand dollars, not $11,000. Blue Sage cou ave been fixed the
first time for several thousand dollars, no j,000 twice. 43rd
was -- 41 st down off of Everglades,th<,�V_nother one.
And so the rationale here is t S, proactive stance, get -- the
other side of this equation is -- an re not hearing from a lot of the
folks that live on private road se they're tenants. There's a
landlord that owns -- tha hose properties. Especially when
you move out further into east into the Immokalee area, there's
some roads that I have �*ou le getting around on even in my
four-wheel driv .
The oth Xsitn you had was administratively. We do have
staff now at i ware of these private roads. Each time we created
an emer e STU, we charged an admin fee. We will be
char dmin fee here as well, but it will be one for the whole
c t one for each -- and it costs about the same whether you're
to care of a mile -long road or 100 miles of roads from an
administrative standpoint, so that was my other rationale for taking
this step.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Page 143
June 27, 2023
Yeah, I know we revisited this. This is probably, what, the
second or third time since I've been on the committee -- since I've
been on the committee, I think it's about the third time we've
discussed this.
And we are definitely getting more details, especially on the
S,
opt -out and the opt -in, and we're seeing a lot more informatio I
And I know we keep talking about reactive and proact' and I
don't -- I haven't seen a real description of how we're go' be
proactive identifying the roads before it becomes a p or being
brought to our attention. The way it is in the past ' ically an
ambulance or a fire truck or your sheriff has t ' e down one of
these roads, and then we notice it, and then we dress it, which was
the old way to address it, and if it's that b we fix it, and then we
tax them appropriately to reimburse.o in the County.
But I see -- we're talking abo, 've. I think we're reactive
[sic] on the part that we're collects e money up front. And what
I'm seeing here, I don't see a of of description of how we're
going to be reactive [sic ifying before it becomes a problem.
Because once the deputie - or ambulance is going down the road,
it's the same exact cen�rio it was before -- that we had before was,
basically, they'r entifying it, and we address it.
The diff e ce now we'll just have money available before
that, and t at's what we really are trying to achieve here, right? I
mean, we -- we want to have ahead of it -- be ahead of the
what is the difference in what I read before and now what
we eading now of what we're going to do proactive to identify
these roads before it's too late?
MS. SCOTT: What you're going to have is you're going to
have twofold. So the current process is we are notified, and then we
have to come to the Board. So I would be --
Page 144
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Notified by who?
MS. SCOTT: We are notified, I'm sorry, by the -- either the
Sheriff or EMS or fire.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So it's the same exact process?
MS. SCOTT: Yes. So that's how they come forward to u , ut
then we have to come in front of the Board. So that is a dela
beingable to et out there and address the situation. So wZu d
g
have this kitty of funds, if you will, to be able to addres toe in a
more immediate stance.
Currently -- our current program, because the t come in
that often, we utilize our own internal team. r aintenance
will typically go out and address the situation. I'm pulling
resources from another -- from another, y know, critical action that
they need.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL. Ok .
MS. SCOTT: So what we w u d do with this would be actually
put a bid out, have a contract o all to be able to contact a
contractor to get them o so I'm not reallocating my existing
resources.
Having -- when thW're just kind of willy-nilly coming in, it's
difficult to get a tractor on board to say, yes, I'm, you know, on
board with t og m, and I'm going to be available to you to be
able to be t th op of a hat. So this will allow us to put this out to
bid as well
SSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So, like I said, so -- you
k mately, we're still only identifying the problem when it's
br t to our attention?
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The only difference now is we're
proactively collecting the money ahead of time other than addressing
it either with our own resources or having a caveat to fall back on
Page 145
June 27, 2023
with somebody we already approved as a contractor that can do the
work for us?
MS. SCOTT: (Nods head.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I guess on the lines of
Commissioner Saunders -- and how much more bureaucratic re e
and people involved now to manage this portion of it when it
down to having a third party doing the work for us? It's to
have some sort of pull on our manpower.
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely. We just don't know�o�at extent
because we haven't implemented the program yet.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank yo
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissiori�rI aniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: AA on that note, there's been
some discussion about the County rho and and already
bringing on new employees and n s to take care of the
stormwater circumstances that we a , drainage, so on and so forth.
Would those assets be able to ropriated along these lines, or do
we have to go out for a b* idually on the roads? Could -- I
mean, if we got notice tha - and it passed through the -- there is a
review committee f the EMS, the fire, the Sheriff, to be -- and all
three fire depart ts, I think, are included in that. Would we be
able to utilize as is that we're already planning as a group to
be -- obvi sl , hen they have spare time.
MS. : Well, what I would tell you, Commissioner, is
they' ing to have spare time because, you know, I'm just
b9te
em all the time telling them to work, work, work.
y preference would be not to pull those additional resources
overyimportant job that they need to do, which is taking care
of the swale maintenance. That program that I presented to you, I
was still barely within the industry standards of what we anticipate it
being able to get done.
Page 146
June 27, 2023
What we would do with this is put a bid out. We would have a
contractor that would be -- we would be able to call to be able to go
out and do that so that I was not taking important resources off of
County -maintained roads --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- Ms. Scott, when somebo
wants to -- they think their road's serviceable and they want pt
out, they have to prove it to somebody on the county st f�
Somebody --
MS. SCOTT: The advisory committee.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. An e a -- in the past,
has there ever been a discrepancy where our v si n of the road being
serviceable and the person who wants to to opt out, their version
is, you know, in conflict?
MS. SCOTT: We've never _ 'r, we've never had this
program before, so --
CHAIRMAN LoCAST h, okay.
MS. SCOTT: -- w er had the opportunity to opt out.
How it has been in the pa ks we get a call from the fire department
or EMS that says --
CHAIRMLoCASTRO: Couldn't make it.
MS. SC t- we can't get down this road. And what I want
to say is, I o t to preface this because I had this conversation
with Com ner Kowal, we're not leaving people at the end of the
roaa.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
S. SCOTT: Our first responders are MacGyver, if you will.
They will get there. They will get someone. If we can't get an
ambulance to them, they will get them to the ambulance. So I don't
want anyone to think that we're not -- we're just saying, oh, sorry, we
can't get there. It's not that at all. Our first responders are amazing
Page 147
June 27, 2023
and do amazing work to try to get to people and get them out to an
emergency vehicle to be able to get them on their way.
But -- so we haven't had this opt -out provision in the past. It's
been the road's impassable; we need you to get out there and do it, so
we establish the emergency MSTU. :�
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was just trying to think o t
of where there could be a crack in the armor where, you kn our
version of a passable road and the person who wants to �ut, their
version is different, and, you know, we're in -- we'reId
agreement
because, you know, some people want to just opt ckly and go,
the road's fine. I'm not paying anything, boo en we're
like, well, no, it's not. And so what's the stan r But like you
say, we'll have to wait and see how that --
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely. Apd isory committee made
up of emergency responders. �,
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: e ponders, yeah.
MS. SCOTT: Those are es who can tell you can I get my
apparatus down that roa
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: Right, right.
Commissioner Mcpaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I haven't
belabored the 'ntN(ith a lot of stories, but there's a lot of stories. I
mean, the r 's -- u know, as Trinity has so adeptly said, our first
responders etter than MacGyver. They get to the people that, in
fact, d have to have the assistance.
ther side of the equation is there's more that traverse these
ro an just emergency vehicles. We have -- there are
other -- there are other facilities, trash removal, so on and so forth,
that will receive less wear and tear all the way across the board.
So staying within the bounds of the law and taking public assets
onto private property, we're not -- we're not taking -- we're not
June 27, 2023
condemning or eminent domaining any property. We aren't bringing
these roads up to a level of service that would requisite that they
would be ultimately donated to the County because of all of the
Florida Department of Transportation's requisites. This is strictly a
health, safety, and welfare maneuver to better assist our residen
these areas. �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wonder if we're goio
have a resident or two that says, yeah, I know these guys eall
MacGyver, so my road's fine. They'll make it. But it's trot really up
to our standard. But, you know, their takeaway i e but it's
good enough. These guys won't leave me on d; that's why I'm
opting out, and then, you know, we have some - n I guess it
remains to be seen if we're going to have kind of that sort of
pushback. 0 5
MR. KLATZKOW: But them c n opt out without the
committee allowing them to optAQix cannot opt out without the
committee allowing them to
CHAIRMAN LOCA^
COMMISSIONER
flowing them to, yeah.
ANIEL: Number one.
Number two,
if they opt out and it becomes impassable, they don't get to opt out
twice.
CHAIRI CASTRO: Yeah, I gotcha.
iss% er Hall.
COM IONER HALL: My thoughts are a couple. You
don't i at we're creating a bureaucracy by doing -- I mean, I say
that - say that, that's my concern, but at the same time, the
frequency of the repairs, you said once. Commissioner McDaniel
said three. So what is the frequency of the repairs that we have to
do?
MS. SCOTT: So as I stated, since I've been in this position,
which is about a little over two years, we've had one roadway come
Page 149
June 27, 2023
forward. Commissioner McDaniel's had three roadways come
forward in his tenure. So it is not something that --
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's not something that's ongoing.
MS. SCOTT: -- has been frequent, but that is just my
experience with it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, you know, I guess the best
thing that could happen is that we could have the majority of the
people opt out because that means their roads are passa
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Basically, ye
COMMISSIONER HALL: And then again opt out, I
mean -- or if you don't opt out, then you're su ct a f a mill or
whatever. And if you do opt out and we have o ome back and do
your roads, then it should be twice that m here should be an
incentive to keep your road passable is ughts, you know.
And I like -- I like the fact th hole road has to be passable
for anyone to be able to get awa o it, and if they don't want to be
taxed -- there's two things: T ould want to keep their road
passable for their own h eople are willing to risk that. That's
why it's obvious that the r s are in that condition. But what they
won't be able to do for their health, they will be willing to do for their
pocketbook.
And $1 00, I was thinking, as much as -- as fast as we spend
money aro nd e, that's not -- that doesn't seem like very much.
But when ay we could do one for 2,000 or one for 4,000, that
186- o go a long way. So what do we do if we get a -- if we do
t e get a surplus of funds and we go one year, two years,
th ears, and then all of a sudden we have this big money thing,
wha do we do for the homeowner?
Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Am I allowed to answer it?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Commissioner McDaniel,
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June 27, 2023
go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Number one, those were my
estimates of the cost if the issues had been addressed when they were
needed to be addressed and they weren't exorbitant expenses of 11-,
12-, 22,000 twice on Sage and so on and so forth. Those woul
have -- up front, number one. �+
Number two, there are a lot of people that are not here foay that
were here before when this item came forward before that live on
private roads but don't own the property, and so the
that own on the property.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's anothe -di
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL:
dynamic that's added into it.
,landlords
Imic.
y another
Number three, one of the reasops 'Asked to set the first
year at a half a mill so we have a lei mount, we have a
budgeting process that we'll be a lfw� go through, see what we're
doing.
As we have done in 8ft f7aA, before you came on board, we have
had other MSTUs that becVe full. I was going to say glutinous, but
full. And so rathe than eliminating the existence of the MSTU, we
lowered their to to to zero. We just moved it. We --
COMM.O ER HALL: It still stays there but just zeros it
out?
COMAJMSIONER McDANIEL: We adjusted the tax rate in an
appropr' anner based upon what the actual needs for the
e i es to support whatever the reason that MSTU was, in fact,
in e, and that's my plan with this as well.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So constant monitoring,
management. Again, it's going to be the worst -first process. The
first few years are going to be heavier in expense because of
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June 27, 2023
the -- because of -- the initial repairs are more expensive. And then
the ongoing maintenance, in theory, should be less.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I guess I'm going to throw another thing in the fire here just
we can have a conversation about it.
The opt -out, which I like the idea that the whole lengtlt e
roadway beyond all the properties have to be maintaine 0 certain
standard for the whole road to opt out, but at the sam , I live on
a road with six other neighbors. Let's just say we it upon the
property value of what you're going to pay. t a y the only
way we can do it.
So I'm talking about fairity here, lik hats fair. And my
section of the road in the frontage of is maintained to the
certain standard, but the guy at th its, the road, two houses down,
doesn't take care of his house. Hi se is worth half of what
mine's worth, and he doesn't t re of his portion of road, but I'm
stuck paying more mone is fund than he is to maintain the
piece of road that doesn't w me to opt out. I don't know if that's
fair. I'm just putting itAut there.
CHAIRMAN oCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSJO ER McDANIEL: And, again, you know, what I
perceive a fai d what you perceive as fair sometimes are two
different th
The rationale here is, is for everybody that accesses their
property to pay a little bit into this account to be able to take care of
all of the roads in an equal basis. Again, there are -- it's difficult to
ascertain, ultimately, what's fair and what's not. And my particular
road on Redhawk Lane, it's accessed by two other private roads that
run up and down Redhawk Lane for their primary access. You can't
hardly get down their lane to get to where their actual house is.
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June 27, 2023
But they -- I own my own motor grader. I used to own my own
rock company. My road's in pretty decent condition, but these other
roads are virtually impassable, especially in the summertime. This is
when this circumstance -- right now we're just coming into the rainy
season, so we're not having a lot of issues.
This was my answer to a circumstance that's been going►
this community for a long, long time, and I -- as you both k , as
you all know, I'm not a huge advocate of increased taxa ' . I'm
certainly not an advocate of increase in bureaucracy, is is
a -- this is a health -safety -- and that's primarily w ought it
forward is this is a health -safety issue. Agai a riend on Lilac
because Rita couldn't get to him, so -- which is c e sed off of Platt
Road that -- that became impassable.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: �An k that's -- the other
issue I brought up earlier is how d proactive to identify these
things before we do lose a loved o e d then use the money
properly?
COMMISSIONER EL: Right.
COMMISSIONER AL: And I don't -- that
mechanism -- if we could figure that mechanism out, I would feel
better about it, b don't see it yet, because it sounds like the same
way we ident'&!hebf are after it's already a problem. The only
difference * s w ave money to use, you know, then -- you know.
So that's w m saying.
if we want to look at it as a public safety thing, we have
to 1 ok at the nuts and bolts. How does it make it safer? And
if 's a way that committee can form some sort of task force that
physically goes out and inspects these roads, you know, they set time
aside and so many roads, and they do an evaluation of these roads
and bring that back, and then the people have the opportunity to
argue if their road is -- meets a certain standard or not, but it will be
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June 27, 2023
identified before we have to run an ambulance down there, before we
have to run a sheriffs car down here.
Because I think the only mechanism in place now we have to
identify them is the same exact one we've had in the past, and by then
it's too late, especially for, you know, the commissioner's friend.
You know, that's not the time to recognize it.
So if that portion was clearer to me, it would make it er for
me to swallow the pill, because I do believe in public saPObelieve
me. Any -- believe me, I definitely believe in it. I served 28 years
in it. I know how important it is.
So -- but to be proactive, you have to act 1 proactive. We
can't just use it as a cliche or a word to say, we , ere going to be
proactive, and everything we put in place ' 'us reactive. So if we
can look at this -- I don't want to po§tp I think we've
postponed it long enough. N
COMMISSIONER McDANI NI have a comment on that.
Burt's first.
COMMISSIONER
CHAIRMAN LoCA
o ahead, Commissioner.
Let me let -- Commissioner
Saunders has been waitim . " Go ahead, sir.
COMMIS ER SAUNDERS: What's the timeline on this?
So if we appr th today, does this go into our budget -- our
current bu et 're working on?
MS. : No, sir. It would be next year.
SSIONER SAUNDERS: So if we -- just a
hy4fte i al question. If we approve this in January of 2024, would
it o o into the 2024 budget, or would it have -- I'm trying to see if
we Have some time to evaluate a couple of these questions.
MS. SCOTT: I believe it -- I believe it has to be done before
the end of the year to be able to get to the Property Appraiser. Is
Mr. Finn still in the room? He's not. Oh, yeah, he is.
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June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think that's right. I think
as long as it's done this calendar year, I think we're in good shape.
And Mr. Finn is nodding in the affirmative. County Attorney
hasn't nodded one way or the other.
MR. KLATZKOW: I just forget, to be honest with you. N
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: He nodded off. �l
So if we do it this year, we're good for the -- in other w64s`, if
we don't do this today but we get staff to do some evalu and we
come back in a couple weeks or we come back at an eeting in
August, we can still do this this year?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Still get it i n e.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: y. The reason I'm
asking that is I think there have beeia a gitimate questions. I
support what you're trying to do, 1,1
* sioner McDaniel, in terms
of fixing these roads. I just don't a t to create a bureaucratic
nightmare for a couple of staf le, because I would be supportive
of putting $186,000 in o to cover those expenses on an
annual basis if that's what That's simple. It's easy to maintain.
I know Trinity Scott has indicated that she doesn't want to drag
people off of important projects, but if there's an emergency and we
have a fund a a able, and -- I'm sure we could get the work done. I
just don't ant reate a bureaucratic nightmare for a couple staff
people or s a lot of money to collect a little bit of money.
ybe we need some more evaluation. That's all I would
s e staff really dig into this and tell us what you
re - what this is going to cost, what it's going to really entail.
May e you can't do that, but just a thought.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Do you want to answer his question
before I go?
Page 155
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll call on McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who replaced Harry Sells?
MS. SCOTT: We have two different project managers there.
But we have a project manager that's identified for this if it goes into
place.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and Harry di l�at
with our private roads. And that question you were askin th of
you were asking with regard to -- we already have ident' -- our
staff s already -- at least they did at one time -- identified the private
roads and driven on them and inspected them andAt rt of thing.
So I mean that aspect of it was ongoing way c the da .
> p g g Y Y
MS. SCOTT: Well, what I would -- if I u d respond to that,
that was done many years ago when this inally came up, I think,
maybe back in 2000 [sic]. So it's bye ears since the team has
been out on the roads.
COMMISSIONER Mc;NI
Okay. We could use that as
a base.
COMMISSIONER There's a lot of potholes.
COMMISSIONER NIEL: They haven't gotten any
better. Those roads that were in poor condition haven't gotten any
better, I can promise you that. So we can use -- necessarily, we can
use that as a base.
I me th1- - this is -- this process has been ongoing for quite
some time hRft known circumstance.
mmissioner Saunders, I thank you for saying what you
sai , e thought process was -- that I had here was we -- if this
or ' ce, in fact, passes and goes forward, we have a known
revenue source we may be able to backfill in advance even this year
to be able to take some -- take care of some of the worst roads
knowing that there's a revenue source coming back to replace it. Of
course, that will be up to Mr. Finn to figure out whether he's got an
Page 156
June 27, 2023
extra penny or two laying around.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if we pass this today, we have
till the end of the year to kind of -- to line up the details of it or to
hear the details of it of how it's going to actually play out, or if w --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. Well, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I mean, there's been seve�
questions. There have been some good points. O
MR. KLATZKOW: The timing is only as to w e tax
collector actually could bring the money in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So n t have --
MR. KLATZKOW: What Commissione c aniel is saying is
if we pass this ordinance now, you can to this MSTU the money
now, and they get paid when the moni oming back in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: �. my question is more about
the details.
MR. KLATZKOW: StaJNt going to know the details until
they actually start worki �!i's.
MS. SCOTT: Corre So if you pass it today and we come
back with establis Inge advisory committee, et cetera, we can get
the advisory cor#kttee meeting. This will not go on the tax roll
until next Oc r -`-�6r November, sorry. So it will not be in this
year's tax 11. Nwould be next year. So we would not technically
start collec ' oney until next year. That does not negate the fact
that isory committee couldn't start working and identifying the
ro We would certainly want to get started procuring a
co rat so that when the funding is available, we have our contractor
on board ready to go.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess I have a feeling that we
have the cart before the horse. So what if we don't like the horse?
Can we change -- can we just change it --
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June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- if we don't like the details?
Okay. And then the other question is, how does the existing
payback work? Does it work on property values, or does it work on
shared expense?
MR. KLATZKOW: Property values. �+
COMMISSIONER HALL: So the unfairness is still i44 ce
right now. 0
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perception. �.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The perception unfairness.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Percepti fairness.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Clerk of Co .
MS. KINZEL: Well, I was hoping 'd get to answer some of
my questions. But let me bring fogy of the complications I
saw.
First, yes, it creates bureaucr And then when I hear the
County Attorney say things li 11, we'll lend it all the money, and
then we'll get paid back, only takes county staff, but that
takes accounting staff for 6,000, which is just based on an
estimated half a mill collection. But I have not heard to date what
would be the tot ost of repairing all of these 140-some roads.
Because e's y concern. You collect base on a millage,
which is d' a a little bit based on property value even though
you're all o same road. Right now you have an assessment that
is eq o those people that did not maintain their road. That's a
li 't 'fferent than a millage that is based on your property value,
no elationship to the repair on the road.
Also, what happens is first year you get five people that may be
the worst. Everybody's contributing. They eat that up amount. Or
the people that opt out, you say they can rejoin in five years. Well, I
would try to opt out forever, because then I wouldn't at least have to
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June 27, 2023
pay it for five years, and maybe that cycle will come around and I'll
be the worst road, and I'll get it paid with other people's collection.
The timing is what I'm having a struggle with. And I was
hoping we would get there, but I don't think you can until you know
the total cost of what it would be overall to fix all of these roadsz*,,,,
current standards and maintain it. So I really tried not to intey
but I don't think you're there --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But you did.
MS. KINZEL: I'm sorry, but I don't think you'r re yet, and
it is creating a bureaucracy that we have to accou nd manage,
and these questions are still outstanding.
So postponing it a month or so, let's get a tt e bit better -- I
don't know how much it would take to ge i ea on these roads, but
you're trying to tax for something that 't even know what the
total cost is. So I had to say that. 5man
a you. Sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:irMcDaniel.
COMMISSIONERjMcD L: Yeah. I certainly appreciate
the Clerk's opinion with how this is going.
There's already an ment. We already pay an equal
payment based upon otVproperty values. But the people that access
their property orb ivate roads receive no benefit from that.
Those -- the o ert taxes that we pay on an equitable basis are for
the pubgs
d the access and maintenance on our public roads,
not on ate roads. So this was an avenue for the folks that
acceonly access their properties via a private road to pay
i bring all of those up to standard.
T e cost -- the cost is going to vary based upon the condition of
the private roads, and there will be a period of time for people that
live on Redhawk Lane that won't receive any maintenance or upkeep
on that road because I own my own motor grader.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Has any analysis been done on the
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June 27, 2023
roads as far as what the estimated costs would be to bring the ones
that aren't up to standard up to standard as the county -- as the Clerk
of Courts mentioned?
MS. SCOTT: No. And as Commissioner McDaniel stated, it's
going to vary based on usage. It's going to vary based on rainfa
that we get. You know, a road this year that was passable, n r
may not, depending on usage, and if we get, you know, an ance
of rain, you might have washout. 0
So it's not something -- these are not paved road These
are lime rock roads. These are dirt roads. These nd roads in
some instances. It is -- it's a varying thing. tated, when
this came up a few years back, we had a team e ber who went and
spent a lot of time to go out and assess th ads and look at the roads
and see what was passable and what w hat has not occurred
for this exercise.
We do have his information t e had before. In my
conversations with fire and E sked, do you assess the roads?
Do you go out and drive a regular basis? They do not.
They do it based on comp ints that come in or if they go to a call.
So if they get a complaint from a homeowner that says, I don't
think that you c et your apparatus down this road, they will go
check it out. he can't, then they notify county -- they'll usually
come to m� an hen we go forth with the establishing of the
emergencyV4m u .
AN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, do you
w o ake a motion, or do you want to delay this?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion for
approval of the proposed ordinance with the cap to be at one mill and
that levy at half a mill the first year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion. Do I have a
second with those changes?
Page 160
June 27, 2023
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll second it. So I've got a motion
and a second.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, just real quickly o
the motion, I support what you're trying to do.
se
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. 'V
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm just -- I'm not
comfortable creating this countywide MSTU because I just don't
understand how much work is going to be requireA V this done.
This may very well pass, and, if it does, that's �a ,, But if it doesn't
pass, then I don't think that's the end of the iss lecause I would like
to, at some point if this doesn't pass, talk Allt how we can fund this
and how we might do it as an alternati I'm just concerned
about the bureaucracy that's going e with this. I just don't
understand it. _
CHAIRMAN LoCAS
COMMISSIONER
issioner McDaniel.
And, you know,
Commissioner Saunders, Yv' and I have been around here a long,
long time. And, a ain.4 -- we, the community, our road
transportation d ment, we don't hear anything about our private
roads in the 'n erti e when they're passable. It's only in the
summertinLe w the rains come and they become impassable.
This c stance has been going on since time immemorial,
and this - the efforts that have been done in the past have been
excessivorly expensive because of the time associated with the
reparations that were requisite. Again, I cited Blue Sage over there
on -- off the end of Garland that is a private road accessing county
land, and it fell off into the -- I call it a crick. It fell off into the canal
twice.
And I actually remember -- I offered to -- I offered to go grade
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June 27, 2023
that road if I could get somebody -- the County to park a motor
grader down there just to go fix that road so that it stayed passable.
And there are people that live down there, residents that live down
there as well.
So -- and, again, this -- this is an answer to an ongoing
circumstance that hasn't been -- in my personal opinion, hasn't
rectified, hasn't been taken care of, and we have -- a lot more -good
can come from it other than the little bit of -- little bit of Qk that's
associated with it, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. The rea econded it is
after hearing you -all speak back and forth -- a c rl , you know,
you can make the points either way. I really - ea ly didn't look at
it as bureaucracy. I look at it as it's goin take effort and work,
but bureaucracy means something alit 'fferent. So unless
somebody can explain it to me, I ow that that's the first word
I would reach for.
Is this going to take effo e staff? Absolutely. And
there's a lot of things we ere that take a lot of effort. That's
why we vote on them.
So I think it's going to take -- it's going to take work and effort,
but I don't really look at it as government overreach or bureaucracy
or those sortuf things. I'm not saying it's perfect. But, you know, if
anybody has a ing to say -- and obviously the Clerk of Courts
does. We n't taken a vote. You know, we're here to debate and
talk.
M9VKINZEL: Chairman? Mr. Chairman --
,,�HAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MS. KINZEL: -- thank you.
I think when we reference a bureaucracy, it is the dollar value of
what you're able to collect versus the expenditure of all the costs to
account for it, to monitor it, to account for it.
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June 27, 2023
And when you talk, is it even going to be half a mill for
182,000? Going back to Commissioner Saunders' point, what are
you creating the cost for all the departments to handle this versus
what would it cost to do it maybe another way? Going also back to
the millage versus the current route, if this has only happened thr
times in the last seven years, that is creating a real bureaucrac
monitoring, evaluation, billing, collecting, accounting for it oss all
of us. And you're only talking about, what? What's t 041
population?
And if I were on one of the dirt roads and mvAw bors weren't
taking care of it but I couldn't opt out -- beM�YyNo
een taking care
of m segment, and then I keep paying in doesn't even
Y g � pp Y g
get fixed until four worse roads get fixed, 1 imk you're going to have
some public outcry if that occurs.
I don't know how many peop 1 that this is potentially
occurring, but they will when the e to opt in or out or get those
notifications, because you hav 't oticed anyone that this has
happened to, have you,
COMMISSIONER ANIEL: Madam Clerk.
MS. KINZEL: Yes.
COMMISS ER McDANIEL: Madam Clerk, that's
incorrect. T t wa statement that we went through the last time
when some of colleagues had concerns. And we sent letters to
all of the p ies that were impacted by this.
ZEL: Okay. And so you didn't have any feedback on
t
MMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, certainly we had
feedback.
MS. KINZEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Both positive and negative.
Some of the people didn't want it, some of the people did, which is
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June 27, 2023
why I worked with the County Attorney to establish an opt -out
provision that I think will impact --
MS. KINZEL: But in going back to the question of
bureaucracy versus just extra work, we all work extra on anything
that we need to do, and we can accomplish it, but that goes back
was there an analysis done of who would really opt out or wh d
opt in and versus the costs that -- what are the total costs th is
would take to do all 140-plus roads? O
That number, based on who's opting in or out, t uld even
be necessary, really, to set a millage rate, because on't want to
over assess or over collect and then at the end v r fund it if, in
fact, those costs weren't necessary to fix the ro s.
So I just see a lot of accounting that taf to be done with this.
Yes, we'll do extra work. We do wka eeded. But when we
talk about bureaucracy, it really is Nfiplexity of determining that
without the actual detail of then Ab s. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST ommissioner McDaniel, did you
have a --
COMMISSIONER ANIEL: Oh, I have a whole bunch to
say, but I'm not going t9►riga t now. I -- it's not that complex. This
isn't brain surgery. We have a health, safety, and welfare
circumstance that has been prevalent in this community for the
40-some- d years that I've lived here.
And, , if you -all don't want to do it, we don't have to do it.
I'm nA4 i g to bring it back ever again. I've been looking to get
t c`�mstance taken -- two times ago when this was brought
fo d, I had folks from Immokalee, from the CRA, from the
community leaders in Immokalee come here, gave their time, and we
continued the item again because of all these misnomers of lack of
information and lack of accounting and so on and so forth.
So there's a dire -- is it a dire need? No, but is there -- has this
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June 27, 2023
need been here since time immemorial? Yes. And this -- this
is -- this the -- we can't spend public funds -- Commissioner
Saunders, we can't just go grab 187,000 from another kitty and put it
over here. We can't -- we're not allowed to do that. We're not
allowed to spend public funds on private property.
And this is a mechanism that our County Attorney -- thi
mechanism that our County Attorney and I have worked on tay
within the four corners of the law and service as a need ire need
for our community. Relatively speaking, a small portiol�-of the
option, I'll give you that, Madam Clerk. But ther Atill a hundred
and -- the agenda said 105 miles. I had 111, ' es of private
roads, sand roads in our community. So there o go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ms. Sc le me just ask you a
final question. You know, what is our -- what is the
staffs recommendation, you kno e folks that you're here
representing?
So we heard from the Cl o Courts. I don't think we sort of
heard your recommendaVqtions,
' ou know, you explained it very well
and answered all of our but, you know, what does the staff
have to say?
MS. SCOT Well, we're here to carry out the will of the
Board, numb e.
CH A LoCASTRO: I know. Okay. So then I'll just
ask you fla is this -- is this an overabundance of workload,
burea4a , the juice isn't worth the squeeze? Let's talk plain
E . I mean, so S. SCOTT: I can't -- so, Commissioner, I can't tell you that
unti I figure out what's going to happen with the opt -out portion of it.
If this is just the fire and EMS are coming to the MSTU and giving us
a list of roadways that need to be addressed and we're, essentially,
bidding them and managing the construction part of it --
Page 165
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, finally somebody's
spoken plain English. So I wouldn't second it based on -- because I
want to hear a better answer than that. So if that's the answer, then I
don't think we're ready to vote on this.
So I'm not saying kick the can and move it along. And, yo
know, I would encourage Commissioner McDaniel that if thi
something he's passionate about, I don't care if you bring it 10
times if it's something that we should talk about. So do ®1 se
airspeed because, you know -- you know, you're feel* at down or
we're going round and round.
I agree with you. I think this is importa d m not saying
you are, so I probably should take that -- but I o t want you to feel
discouraged that, hey, you know, I came lAk one more time for the
college try. I can't get a consensus so ow, I'll just let it go.
But, you know, truthfully -- o were truthful, but I was
hoping to hear a better answer tha t , and so then I sit here and
say, maybe similar to what so ers have said, is the cart before
the horse? And then als , don't feel any sense of -- to go back
to what a couple of the of commissioners said, if we don't need to
decide today and we sti.1i have some unanswered questions, then
maybe we're no king the can and we're not continuing to bring it
down. We j t -- still haven't answered all the questions before
we start, y u , taxing this small group of people, and maybe for
no reason wrong reason or the wrong way.
Sol' of a bunch of people lit up again. Commissioner
Mc and then, Commissioner Hall, you're on deck.
ommissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just want to assure you I'm
not losing airspeed. I'm not quitting. The last thing I have done is
ever quit, just so you know.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
Page 166
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL:
Just so you know. Number
two, the questions that are raised are being raised by folks that aren't
really dealing with this. I am the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- commissioner of Distr 5.
I would say 80 of these 110 miles reside in District 5. �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: District 5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL:
District 5.
I hear from the nts of
I owned a mining and excavating business.
costs are associated with the reparations of th
the cost is associated with running a motor gra
roads and making them passable.
The Clerk of Courts was very rlic
about all of the accounting and
things -- do you want to hear p
This is a need.
I know of one pers
requisite to get to the Bi
what the
.' I know what
fixing these
V up there and talk
but this -- these
This isn't brain surgery.
passed because of the time that was
do the reparations and do the stuff
because of a known circumstance that was there, and that's one
person too
Immokalee
water kne
just
that
alone people who -- on the other side of
vO on private roads, their kids have to walk through
order to get to the school bus.
5?tfig all those people in here to barrage you. I
me is a no-brainer. This to me is a circumstance
Vs not complicated. It's --
IAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this: Did anything
. Scott just said as to some of the unknowns that are still out
there concern you, or do you think they're big -- a big part of the
equation before, you know, we move out on this? Are we doing it
prematurely? I'm just asking hypothetically, because, you know, she
Page 167
June 27, 2023
stated something that wasn't as definitive as I had hoped, but that
doesn't mean it's not a smoking gun and we can't -- we can't move
forward and make progress. So what are your thoughts?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Personally -- and, again, I
think staff is not aware -- this opt -out provision, I think we got it
clear as mud, to be honest with you. Is it going to be -- is it i o
create more work? Not really. I mean, in my -- in my vie ' f a
person -- I use Platt Road as an example. If a person o t Road
chooses to opt out, then Platt Road is opted out. An if that
road becomes impassable, then they don't get to o anymore, and
they're included in it, period, the end. It's no - a , it's not brain
surgery.
MS. SCOTT: And if I may, Chai , so, see, I have a little bit
of a thought behind this as well. % pt-out policy, it would
be more of an administrative thin li ringing -- you know,
bringing this to the advisory board h ing the advisory board act on
it and all of that.
I wouldn't do that nec4ly with another full -time -equivalent
position. We have the opportunity, through a staffing service here at
the County, to bring on administrative assistants with us, which
would be charg ack to the MSTU through their administrative
costs if we n t at, because that's going to ebb and flow. That's
not going !b�kyou know, opt -outs, my guess, is probably not
going to co , you know, hundreds of them at a time throughout
the y ey're going to come in -- my guess is right after
s ets their tax bill, they're going to say, oh, I want to opt out
o for next year. And so that would be when I would bring in,
you ow, temporary administrative help to be able to help the
project manager.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If we needed it.
MS. SCOTT: If, absolutely. It wouldn't be that I'd bring them
June 27, 2023
in. It would be, like I said, ebbs and flows. And that is something
that I can turn on and turn off depending on what the staffing needs
are for it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We are -- and, just -- you
know, the Clerk asked you. We sent letters to all of the affected
people. I mean, do you have a recollection as to the respons gz t
came from that? The majority -- the majority that -- I mea , ere
were a few people that are like, heck no, don't raise my e ever
again. I already pay taxes. Where aren't you fixin oad?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Private.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Exact a h is what I tell
them. And so --
MS. SCOTT: It was not overwhelnjAig one way or another.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEJ�:
MS. SCOTT: Those went t le Arnold, and before she
retired, she sent those to me. It of overwhelming one way or
another. It was a 50150 split, r take. And we also had some
roads that actually came together and said, absolutely, we
would love to do this, an , a road, we want to opt in.
CHAIRMAN LoC,OKS RO: Yeah.
MS. PATT SON: Commissioners, maybe a compromise:
If -- because ' s e like probably Commissioner McDaniel hit the
nail on the ea that this issue's very close to him because he lives
in it in his 5mct, and the rest of you getting your arms around what
this r 1 ks like and what this really means, maybe, in the -- we
h le bit of time. Why don't we convene the committee of
fo at deal with this on a daily basis with Commissioner
Mc aniel and with Trinity to get our arms around that top -- there's
going to be a top list of the roads that we know are going to need the
work, right, of the 105 or 10 miles of roads, there are going to be the
logical ones that rise to the top, and there would be an ability to do a
Page 169
June 27, 2023
cost analysis on those and break them up into a reasonable plan of
how they'd be addressed.
Now, that doesn't address the opt -out, but it would get this board
some understanding of what we're dealing with here, as far as the
magnitude and the roads, we could bring back to get you, then,
perspective that I think that you're all looking for, because w lz� re
hearing from you is you're not -- you're not maybe having -
harder to get your hands around what we're dealing wit 0v many
are there, what are we even talking about, and how eople are
on those roads.
So do you have a road with five people? i road with 20
people? Because the complexity of the opt-o f course, goes up
with how many people are opting out. B short of doing everything
or doing nothing, we could take that st sitting down together
one more time -- Commissioner, soT%,-Ndnd trying to get this in a
way that's more meaningful to every ody here on the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST kay. Commissioner Hall had a
comment, and then we'll4q Commissioner McDaniel says to
that.
COMMISSIONEF.,#HALL: Well, Commissioner McDaniel
said exactly wh was going to go say. It's 90 percent your district.
COMM O R McDANIEL: Right.
CO I NER HALL: And so Commissioner Kowal and
I, we're not ing private road, you know, discussions in our
distri d so it's a public safety issue.
't want to kill this just because we don't have the answers to
ev ing, but I would like to have some of the details, and I would
like to see it come back, because I think it's very worthy of doing but
doing it right. So I want to encourage you, if we just -- you know, if
we -- I hate that term, "kick the can," because to me that says it's not
important. But I would like to have some of the details, and I
Page 170
June 27, 2023
do -- and I would be behind this, and I would support it if I had some
of those details issued.
We do have a process in place right now, so we're not losing any
ground, but we're not gaining any ground. But the ground that we
gain, I would like to gain it smart and do it right, and I would be
behind it if we had some of those details issued. �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm going to try to simplify this,
and I don't know if I can even -- what I'm going to sa men can be
done. �V
And I do -- Commissioner McDaniel, thi "J rge -- partly in
your district, and I know you personally feel -- ory you feel about it
and the feelings that you have just due to sonally what you've
witnessed and suffered, and I wouldn't at on anybody, and I
understand that.
But, you know, when we hay a body that works for the
County, their salary is paid bek
taxpayer in this county. So
when that person's tasked tc�n these roads or tasked to do
some sort of -- you known in the Clerk's Office, they're being
paid for the people -- you know, in my district, District 2, District 3,
District 4, Distr' 's salaries are being paid for that. So it is tax
dollars from b y's dollars of being part of this whole process.
And thi -- I don't know if it's even possible. I know we've
already se n letters to -- we know the number of people that live
on th e s. We know the properties. We know those numbers.
T rd numbers. I mean, and it's a majority in your district.
d if it's something that we could as simply as send out a
proxy letter and let them vote up or down, let the people decide, and
get the results back, and if we can just clean -- the language right
now -- I just want to see something a little bit more proactive,
because I do believe in being proactive for safety purposes. And the
Page 171
June 27, 2023
way it's written right now, I can't support it because I don't see that.
But if the people in your district, and they want this and they're
willing to vote and say, yeah, this is what I want, I don't have a
problem. I just don't know if it's something we can do or can't do.
MR. KLATZKOW: You can do it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, because that
probably simplify this a lot more than us beating our heads 6*4r it.
Because there are people in my district. They're going ua, you
know, I pay taxes, too, and you're using the resources thdt-I support
through a salary in the county to go out and fix a road. And,
you know, I have to have the right answer forR
o, when I'm
asked.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: T isn't correct. There is
an asset portion for the Clerk to coulit ies.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL. t of 100-some-thousand
we're going to collect, we're also i to place salaries that anybody
that's going to be --
COMMISSIONER
that's charged back to the TU.
(Simultaneous crosstal .)
COMMISS� ER KOWAL:
clear. �,
: That's all administrative stuff
All right. I'm just trying to be
CO ISN�ONER McDANIEL: I'm sorry. I don't mean to be
disrespect f there's a tone of voice of impatience, it's just
becau een talking about this ad nauseam, and it's -- the MSTU
is lfNontained unit. The administrative fees will be paid for
adIvistration of the MSTU. If there's a charge by the clerk or the
tax collector, or whatever, those are all paid for out of the MSTU.
So we're -- the circumstance here is certainly not to take away
from any other assets that we have availed to us here at the County.
I had a thought, when staff was talking to me about going and buying
Page 172
June 27, 2023
more dump trucks and loaders and taking care of the dire drainage
needs that we have going on in Eastern Collier County, that we be
able to appropriate some of those assets and take care of some of
these roads as well. But if we need to put it out for bid, we'll put it
out for bid, so -- the administration aspect of the MSTU will be 'd
for out of the MSTU --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, like I said, if it's 1 le
and if it's something, and if -- as a body up here feel tha a s an
avenue to take to send out a letter, it's an up or down -because
these people live on a private road. They live on 'ate road for a
reason. Some of them want to be on a privat a o, you know,
I don't know where their stance on this is.
MR. KLATZKOW: This board in t ast has done that for
MSTUs. You can either set up the �\4 oluntarily or
voluntarily. By voluntarily, it w d�, n up or down vote by the
people within the MSTU. We ha one that in years and years
and years, but it has been don is board.
COMMISSIONER But I think that will give the
voice to Commissioner niel's district who is mostly affected by
this, and they'll have the control over if we do something with it or
not.
I mean, kn -- but right now, where I sit at it, I'm making
a decision or taxpayers, which, you know, they don't -- one way
or the othe n't know how much they want to be involved in this.
s his majority of the people that are involved in it and
the n up or down vote and they want to go with it, then I'll -- it
will be easier for me to swallow. I mean, that's all I'm trying to say.
I'm just trying to simplify it a little bit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I like the County Manager's
suggestion. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what she's
suggesting, but Commissioner Saunders is next.
Page 173
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think Commissioner Kowal
has a great idea. We could find out fairly quickly. I've gotten
letters from people that -- the only letters I've gotten is from people
saying that they were opposed to it. But it's only been a few, three
or four.
Question for the County Attorney -- because we've been
a lot that we can't spend public money on private roads. een
spending public money on private roads, and then we'v back
and gotten reimbursed. So I'm not sure where this i that we
can't spend money on a private road. If there's an ency, if
there's a public health -safety issue, it seems t e c n go in and
pave a road with public money.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner ve een up and down this
road many times. If we could do itju i che General Fund, we
would have done it years ago, but, court cases and AG
opinions that say you can't do it. t we're doing now is just
loaning the money, then get ck. That's probably good. But
it's a constitutional prohi using public money for a private
purpose, and --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Even if there's a declaration
or determinatio t there's an emergency that needs to be corrected?
MR. KL OW: That's been tried before, and it's failed.
CO I NER SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. ZKOW: Trust me, I would much prefer to
use - e used to in the old days send a truck out with the
gr, ILV take care of it, and that would be the end of it but, you
knl�w,/-
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And I was just
confused because we have been spending the money in advance and
then going back and collecting it. But I understand what you're
saying.
Page 174
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we declared -- forgive
me for interrupting. But we actually declared an emergency in those
circumstances that got through that particular issue. By doing it
this -- and to give credence to the County Attorney, he's leaning
forward on this, because this has never been done in the State o
Florida. So it may get challenged. There may be questions. re
may be -- there may be things that we don't know yet that learn
if, in fact, we do do it or don't, as the case may be. O
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what's your tho n the
County Manager's proposal to have some folks ge ou and
maybe get some of the unanswered questions d and come
back --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I' e happy to do that. You
know, there again, Harry Sells and �s normous amount of
time way before I became a counts issioner. I mean,
Commissioner Coletta gave me -- me to take the knee and
nominated me to be the presi the Corkscrew Island
Neighborhood Associati - on the premise that back in -- you
know, in the old days, in r to establish an MSTU, you have to
have a 50-percent- lus .one vote in order to implement that MSTU.
And you can't -- a cannot get these folks -- and I'm one of
them -- that 1. e on private road to all come together.
So w in is magic wand takes care of a circumstance, allows
for an o t- ovision, has a third -party administrator of the
emer rvices folks to determine the worst first, and takes care
o `OKsary circumstance in our community.
S6 I'd be happy to meet with the County Manager, get Harry's
list, go through that process, bring it back to you, take some pictures,
bring some people in. If you want me to go through that, I'd be
happy to do it. I --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Would we need a vote on that, or if
Page 175
June 27, 2023
we are all in agreement, we --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We can just vote to continue
this for another month.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I've got a motion to continue it
based on --
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- also what you suggestEk ich
I think was very astute. 0
COMMISSIONER HALL: We just need some as.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I think tha ink that
discussion will bring us the details.
So we have a motion. I'll second that. n avor of
following the County Manager's suggesti w ich Commissioner
McDaniel has agreed to? All in favor
COMMISSIONER HALL: kv%,
COMMISSIONER McDANIQ►L ' Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTR Nye.
COMMISSIONER V„0 L Aye.
COMMISSIONER DERS : Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCAS RO: Opposed?
(No responA
CHAIR L,oCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously with
IN
continuati a deeper dive.
We're past the break, and you know, Terri's over here like,
you 'ving me daggers. And let's take a little bit longer.
L o back at 3:40, okay, just -- is that too long?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She used to go for a walk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 3:35, okay? We'll split the
difference.
Page 176
June 27, 2023
(A brief recess was had from 3:12 p.m. to 3:35 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Item # 11 B
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL ("RFP") #22-802
"OUTSOURCING OF COUNTY MARINAS," TO BL
FLORIDA, LLC. ("BLUWATER") IN WHICH EIG
OF ALL GROSS SALES REVENUE (EXCLUDI
PERCENT OF GROSS SALES REVENUE FJ�O I
TER
ERCENT
?L), SIX
,AND
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF ALL WATERCRAFT LAUNCH
AND PARKING FEES ARE REMITTED igo THE COUNTY, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO�HE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT -MOTION TO APPR WITH EXCLUSION OF
BRICK & MORTAR WATER
COMMISSIONER KOWAL
HALL — APPROVED
FROM CONTRACT BY
NDED BY COMMISSIONER
MS. PATTERSOT*. Item 11B is a recommendation to award
Request for Pro 122-8023, outsourcing of county marinas to
B1uWater F1 C, in which 8 percent of all gross sales revenue
excluding uel, ercent of gross sales revenue from fuel, and
100 percen 1 watercraft launch and parking fees are remitted to
the d authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
S. Olema Edwards, Parks and Recreation division director, is
hereto present.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Ms. Edwards, we're all
ears.
MS. EDWARDS: Great. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
Page 177
June 27, 2023
If awarded, BluWater Florida will be responsible for the
operations and management of the following four marina locations:
Port of the Islands; Goodland Boat Park; Caxambas Park, once it's
fully reopened; and Cocohatchee River Park.
The detailed scope of work of this solicitation will allow the
vendor to have the ability to conduct daily operations of the +�
manage the contract -- excuse me -- manage the commercia hmg
activities for a fee, and provide and operate -- provide a o erate
permitted concessionaires.
The vendor shall also have the ability to leas ational and
commercial boat docks, both wet and dry slip si
Board -approved lease agreements and standar re to rates set forth
in the Parks and Recreation Fee Policy R lut'on, which was
2022-263, and it may be amended.
The contractor is also author* onduct the following types
of businesses and services includi ut not limited to, retail sales
and services, live bait sales, f es, dry slip assignments, and
voter registrations, rese or day slip rentals, boater evictions
for dry storage, posting w er and tide reports, marketing of
facilities, and safe -AZ an�*security of the facilities.
When we I with the vendor, these were the negotiated terms
that we came o gr ment with. BluWater Florida will remit the
following o jounty on a monthly basis: 8 percent of all gross
sales revencluding fuel. For fuel we'll receive 6 percent of the
gross sales revenue, and 100 percent of the watercraft lunch and
p des.
ow, when this solicitation was put out, the agreement period
advertised in the RFP included an initial one-year term with four
annual renewals. During negotiations with the vendor, BluWater
requested a two-year initial term with three one-year renewals. This
was due to the heavy nature of investment such as staffing, fuel,
Page 178
June 27, 2023
inventory, and other initial startup costs.
Additional negotiated terms were that B1uWater will have 60
days or less grace period on revenue collection from start date of the
fully executed contract for Port of the Islands Park and Goodland
Boat Park, and then collection on revenue at will -- excuse
me -- collection on revenue will commence 60 days or less of
issuance of the certificate of occupancy for Cocohatchee Ri ZPark
and Caxambas Boat Park. As you know, these two par Q still
going through some Hurricane Ian repairs, so this is e came up
with this negotiated term.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Le o c a couple
slides. A lot of this is in my district. Okay, r h there. Stop right
there.
Okay. So my first question is,;- nk all the
commissioners know here, but jus drecord, this all stems from
contracts that we had for these ma park stores that were very
heavily unbalanced towards t dor and not so much to the
County. And we're not o make anything a cash cow, but
just trying to find balance.
And also, we had -- we had some issues. You know, a little bit
of fresh blood aRkutting something out for rebid, you know. And
the previous contractor could have rebid but didn't like the new terms
and decid tolk away.
It was of last minute, so all of these marinas that you see
litte 'ght now they have very minimal services, I mean, very
P1�because the previous vendor not only took all the inventory,
s rightly hers, but basically emptied out the store. So we're
providing minimal services at all these places.
Having said that, looking at this slide, how does this compare to
what our previous vendor had? Because our strong suggestion up
here was if we're going to renegotiate, like I said, we're not looking to
Page 179
June 27, 2023
make it be necessarily a cash cow for the County, but have it be a
smarter business contract.
So what would these numbers be if we were looking at the
previous vendor? How much did that person get compared to what
these new numbers are? Is it much different? We were hopin
was.
MS. EDWARDS: It is. The previous vendor receive
4 -- excuse me -- 96 percent of everything, and the Counter ceived
4 percent. With these numbers right here, we get 8 percgnt of all
gross sales, 6 percent of the fuel sales, and we get I
ercent of the
watercraft rentals and parking fees.
So even if they do take parking for us, sa h meter is down.
The County will get $9. The vendor wo e a dollar for
administrative costs for the credit card things like that, but
this is a much better deal because C 'Iasically collecting money
from the vendor, and we don't ha v t provide the service.
I also want to note as we with this vendor, they want to
provide watercraft rental . , this was some of the things that
came up with this contrac . We're not taking anything away from
the current comme cial.,vendors, but this is also another revenue
source that -- if rded, that this vendor can bring in revenue that
the County w' ec e a percentage off of.
CHA LoCASTRO: What percent would we get of
that? Do now?
ARDS: Eight percent.
'IRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, 8 percent.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'm just sitting here trying
to do math in public. When you said it was -- the previous contract
was 96 percent to the vendor, 4 percent to us, this breaks it out a little
bit different. But under the previous contract, the -- let's see. We've
June 27, 2023
got -- so we got 4 percent of gross sales under the previous
contractor? We get 8 percent now, right?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What did we get from fuel? Did
we get anything from fuel under the previous? \Vt4,
MS. EDWARDS: It was 4 percent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We got 4 percent. Now6.
And then the launch fees and parking fees, did we get 1 rcent
under --
MS. EDWARDS: It was 4 percent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We got 4. t s he big
difference. And, you know, that was one of t t ings that we had
an issue with.
There's other people lit up here, s t ask one more
question and then probably circle e"lut a lot of emails from
some of the commercial businesse o rent watercraft, and I really
appreciate -- I pushed most of , really all of them, to
Mr. Rodriguez. And not tI d I did that not to nickel and dime
you -all, but he really is the .- was -- it was really the authority on all
of this from day one. You know, we've had a lot of change. You
all are new posi ' s. And I just knew that Mr. Rodriguez knew,
like, the who o o tell some of these vendors that were sending
me, in pa .cul emails saying, if you allow this person to rent all
these wate s and everything, you're basically putting us out of
busi
Xn I actually got a "thank you" note just recently from the
pe you traded notes with a couple of hours ago saying -- he's not
completely happy, but your sense of urgency and your response, he's
like, okay, don't love it, but kind of get it.
But for the group here, what's your response to that? Because
we're not sitting here trying to, I don't want to say, put anyone out of
Page 181
June 27, 2023
business, but we are trying to run a more efficient operation there.
And when we have so many businesses, cats and dogs doing this and
that, I think the spirit behind having this vendor at least do those
types of rentals, and -- I'm correct in saying, part of this contract
doesn't allow anybody else to rent those type of things. He hasz*,,,,
exclusive on renting those type of watercraft, correct or no? �+
MS. EDWARDS: No, sir. So with this -- this is an ional
revenue source for the vendor, but -- possibly, excuse .0
Additional possible revenue source for the vendor. not trying
to eliminate any of the commercial vendors curre ht now. I
know the biggest draw has been Caxambas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. EDWARDS: And with Caxa s, as you know, we're
going through a rezoning process with of Marco.
Eventually we have to reduce the of
commercial -- commercial vendor a axambas. But, for
example -- and this is what I e a ed to the current vendors that we
have -- if we're saying no co lea
activity at Caxambas, whether
this person has a permit cNntly right now with the County, that
means no commiRS:
l nativity --
CHAIRMoCASTRO: Right.
MS. ED -- you know.
CH LoCASTRO: But for the other places, if he's got
the exclusi ntract to rent watercraft, and there's some other
peop t ave -- like -- we'll use Goodland for an example or Port
o nds. There's other vendors out there that were doing the
sa ing. Are they not allowed to do it because he has
exclusivity?
MS. EDWARDS: No. They're allowed. There's no
exclusivity in this contract.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Because that was some of
Page 182
June 27, 2023
the pushback.
So, Mr. Rodriguez, was that sort of the confusion by a few of
those vendors who were crying foul? They're like, oh, this guy's
got -- you know, he's got carte blanche over all of the watercraft
activities, and now, you know, you're putting us all out of busine
So that's not correct?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: That's not correct. For the reco-4an
Rodriguez, your Deputy County Manager.
I think with the commercial vendors, because of ape activity
in the last two years to kind of regain control of o ps, they're
kind of, you know, running -- walking on egg They're kind of,
what's going on next?
What this allows, those vendors that w up with the
commercial permits with kayaks an4 lV�Kremember they have
websites, they have their own bas fi�have hoteliers that call them
up and say, hey, I've got 20 peopl want to go on your kayak
business. So their business o r outside.
This is where, eventulll , 4r possibly in the future, or may not,
where you get, you know, aigrandfather and grandson show up and
say, hey, I'd like to get a kayak, and they're buying bait right there.
They can grab a ak or a paddleboard just for ease of use.
The cha es e've had, as you know very well, in Caxambas,
Goodland, ou t a van show up with a trailer with about 50 to 80
kayaks, an of a sudden they're unloading and staging in our
parki That needs to -- that's gotten cleaned up in the last year
aIq d we just want to make sure that this vendor has the most
opportunity to be successful. They're open seven days a week, 10 to
12 hours a day. They've got to staff it, each site.
And as you know, personnel expenses is one of the largest
expenses. So we have a responsibility to provide that level of
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June 27, 2023
service to the community, but also that vendor needs to have a fair
wage in earnings in their goods and services.
But I will tell you, that last bullet point, that 100 percent parking
fees and boat launch fees is a tremendous win. And I remember you,
Commissioner, as well as Commissioner McDaniel last year, kinf
put us on notice. �+
And, again, this contract has flexibility. They can cor14ack
and say, this isn't working. Staff can come back and sa Qu know
what? We don't like how you're managing our cont r with the
commercial permits. This is a performance -base act in that we
have opportunity here to modify and clean it s ove forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So j st a couple of
observations for the commissioners.
So this excludes Tigertail where ally had a contract,
but, you know, that's a very thin o right now. We're
basically selling food and wateZr 'u rough vending machines.
And it's been successful. I h had one complaint.
I mean, people miss mith, who was out there years
ago -- predates me -- and t*11 hear that every once in a while. But
we're at least providing the are essentials. People aren't looking to
buy bait and iceigertail, so that one's still one that, I guess,
remains on a o ilot through Parks and Rec.
Can y u - n you just go forward one more slide, and
then -- oka - eah, so right there. So I understand this 60 days for
a Co e and Caxambas because, basically, the number on
Cali doesn't matter all that much because there's so much
damage. It's not like you can move in there. But there's no way to
tighten that timeline for Port of the Islands and Goodland? I mean,
they're sitting there basically fully ready, totally fixed. The store is
sitting there, I guess, you know, pretty much empty, ready to move
in. He really needs two months to be able to get in there?
June 27, 2023
And, you know, one of the things that I've said to staff, you
know, privately, is I hope this contractor, if we elect to move
forward, is prioritizing the things that we need him to bring out there.
And we don't need him to turn the marina back into a 7-Eleven on
day one, but we need to get ice, bait, water, you know, some of t
basics out there, and I would hope it wouldn't take 60 days to t,
especially once we either -- if we did give the thumbs up o
contract. But I'm not part of the negotiations. O
Was that just sort of a number sort of out of the t to give
him maximum time? Because I mean, I sit here a , wow, are we
going to go two more months with -- and, gra , . ' of season, but
even to the handful of people that use those m in s -- and it's more
than a handful -- they're not happy right hey realize that the
contract was very one sided, and eviry ;$;Pderstands our
rationale, and I get very few peop tNt, on't get what we decided to
do here to run things more like a b s ess and have it be balanced.
But I do get a lot of feed om folks that go, hey, I know
that your Parks and Rec trying hard and they have a vending
machine that sells water a you know, they've got, you know, a
machine out there that dells, you know, some basic food items, but
these guys are r looking for, at these big marinas, ice and bait.
And it w s as to say, well, we can't -- we're not able to do
that right w ugh Parks and Rec, but we're about to pull the
trigger on - a vendor that we're excited about. But after we
give n light, we're really going to still be under the current
ci s ces for possibly 60 days, even for the bare essentials?
S. EDWARDS: So this was for revenue collection where we
will receive the revenue. They have 60 days or less to get this done.
If we can get it done in 15, 30 days, once they're telling us they're
ready to go, we can go ahead and make it happen. But we want to
make sure that they had a buffer. We don't know if they were able to
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June 27, 2023
get their permits on time or anything, so we would give them that
time to get what they needed to get together.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just want to make sure we're clear
to the vendor in saying, listen, you don't have to have every Milky
Way bar in the store before you cut the ribbon and unlock the do
If you can, you know, get the freezers turned back on, stuff tlw th
ice, water, and bait and have somebody there to sell those items, and
then, you know, at least your store's open, and then you cCild start to
increase the inventory over time, that's really what o cNizens are
looking for.
I guess my last question will be, what's t e at of this
vendor? So I know we didn't get 50 bids beca s , regardless,
these -- these aren't cash cow businesses 'm s, although these
bigger parks, they're profit -makers. . SM,7"Wn -- but what's
the -- what can you tell us about th,, 'cular vendor that you're
recommending? v
MS. EDWARDS: Fro . g to other vendors and from the
nly been in business for two years,
vendor's actual proposal thw o
but they do have experien n this. I haven't heard anything
negative. The current ven or has also been a commercial vendor
since 2015, so tAhave a good reputation. And we'll go from there,
so...
CHA LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean -- but we heard
something ar about the previous Tigertail person, as you know.
You in not throwing you under the bus or anything. But
on o Smith exited and we didn't really get a lot of bids, and
the guy came in from Orlando, I think, and had this, oh, he's done
this a million times at 100 places and everything, and he lasted, you
know, just a handful of months.
And that wasn't because he was incompetent, but I think he must
not have owned a calculator, because Tigertail, we knew, wasn't a
June 27, 2023
cash -cow business. He exclusively bid on Tigertail and then was
disappointed that, you know, he wasn't, you know, selling 100
chicken sandwiches a day in the off-season, and we could have told
him that. So I think we're doing smart things at Tigertail now just
providing the basics.
But can you go forward one more slide? Was there a sl' er
this? No, that was just questions.
Okay. I'll go to my commissioners here. Commi Qer
McDaniel and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go back t slide. And
the question that I had was, is this a -- is this abara e iod of no
payment to the County from those collected re e es, or is this just a
spell for them to be able to offset their up nt costs and then start
paying based upon revenues that they le at 60 days previous?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir, 0 at it is. It's a grace period
for them from their start date to n h e to pay the County revenue
until they can get their first o t nal costs together.
COMMISSIONER EL: Because my suggestion
was -- and I've done -- I is in the mining business -- was I set
the -- because ther 's a period of time for collections and so on and so
forth. But I -- run your business for the month of January but
you don't pay � it until that -- you don't pay for that until April.
MS. D DS: Correct.
COM IONER McDANIEL: And you set that up after, and
then ollecting February and May [sic] and so on. So we're
n ing away the revenue -- that's not correct, because what
yo t explained to me is not what I understand. What I
understood you to say was we're abating the revenue for the County
for January.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And February.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And February. We're giving
Page 187
June 27, 2023
them 60 days to sell as much as they can and not have to pay
anything.
What I'm suggesting is we set the first payment up to be 60 days
in arrears to allow for the offset of the inventory and staffing and all
of the upfront costs that they may, in fact, incur, but we don't sta
collecting until -- they don't start paying us for 60 days. Tha
my thought.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They don't pay us for ys, but
then they're paying us from the -- they don't get two f V onths of
collecting 100 percent of the -- like, the way this Nlow ed, I think
that's how we're sort of interpreting it is that t a e opens, he gets
two free months of selling everything he can a en starts paying us
on the 61 st day with the profits that you o the slide before this,
and I don't think that's what you mein.
Commissioner McDaniel is e w &izZg it exactly how -- the way
it normally does work in busines . pays us for the very first time
on the 60th day, but he pays u he first month, you know, or the
second month that he opye* o he doesn't get 60 days of free
money.
So that's -- it's important that this contract's written properly or
that we didn't c me sort of deal with him giving him two free
months of 10 rc t of the profits, and I don't think that's the
impressio 're allowing him to collect money and build his
coffers so t hen he gets to the 60th day, he can pay us for the
first of the contract. I'm hoping that's the -- are we clear
o -
S. EDWARDS: You are clear now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. WILLIAMS: For the record, Tanya Williams, Public
Services department head.
Just for clarity, the 60 days' time clock starts the moment this
June 27, 2023
contract is executed. So if you approve this contract today,
execution day is today, and that 60-day clock begins now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But that's not my point, dear.
And forgive me for the "dear."
MS. WILLIAMS: That's okay. Z**,V
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My point is we -- I w
prefer we collect from day one but not be paid for 60 days 44 te
an abatement of the income -- because this is the other s' f the
equation, and you didn't hit on this, and that's we're - ounty's
responsible for 100 percent of the maintenance, al ,fl as been,
ongoing expenses, we pay for that.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. For the rec �d,ommissioner,
Dan Rodriguez.
The payment -- they're paymerLits s. So, basically,
when they sign that contract, they'fe Pay�g us 8 percent, 6 percent,
out the gate. And so they've got t e�0-day time period to make
their first payment for those f t o months.
COMMISSIONER EL: For the first month.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: ou got it. Yeah, we would --
COMMISSIONEI�*H LL: And that's what we wanted.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: So I'm going to simplify it real,
real simple, o a ? he opened on July 1 st and started selling stuff,
right, soh so uff the entire month of July, sold stuff the entire
month of A t, we would get -- we would get no money, but on 1
Sept hich is basically the 61 st day, he would pay us for July
aiQt, and that's how the payments would go.
S. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Correct?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, good. That's what we all
want up here, because that's how business works. So we want to
June 27, 2023
make sure we're running this like a business, because the last
contractor seemed to be a lot smarter than not -- than the County, and
we're trying to fix that.
But I guess my question would be would he just pay us for
July -- like, in September he'd pay us for July, in October he'd pa us
for August? Do we -- you know, I mean, it's important we �+
understand the nuances of this contract because, you know 4e
trying to tighten it and improve it. 0
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Once he gets his cycle go' hen every
30 days --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Every 30 d t, okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And th t' fine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, tiAt makes sense.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANI �, e other thing was
the -- and it may have gotten alrea iscussed, but there was a -- I
got an email from -- from Zac talked about the RFP that -- the
original RFP that went out di t include the opportunity to have
commercial boat rentals. Vd so his client didn't bid on the -- on the
entire -- on the entire system because he -- it wasn't included in
the -- in the RFP
MS. HE Good afternoon. Sandra Herrera,
procureme,Lt d tor, for the record.
It was ' ded as part of the RFP. Criteria No. 3 lists that all
bidd quired to provide any additional bidding opportunities
fo So as part of the criteria, anybody that wanted to bid on
it bid and offer any future rental opportunities.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So it was part of the RFP that
went out?
MS. HERRERA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that was just an incorrect
Page 190
June 27, 2023
statement, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But it was a -- if it was written like
that, that was a little bit of a nuance. So Zach sent us all the same
email. His client maybe didn't see it in lights, right, but, I mean if it
had that sort of generic statement at the bottom, you've got to be
astute enough to know that that's your -- that's your wide-ope
to add any other additional extras. I mean, that's Contracti 101.
MS. HERRERA: And it reads, list any rental opp ities or
plans that would be incorporated into the facility.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. HERRERA: So, again, it's an RFP e asking the
vendor to [sic] community to provide those fut re o portunities.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: AbsolukAv.
COMMISSIONER McDANIE�,:
question had to do with the RFP i
did these for parks en masse. WE
one or the other? AC
MS. HERRERA:
COMMISSIONER
rKc) '
DANIEL:
other statements or
rd that was, we did the -- we
allow for someone to pick
So they had to take them all
or none?
MS. HER Correct.
CHAIR CASTRO: I think our backup plan was,
though, if e o bids, then we would -- we would maybe break
them out, b ink we were hoping to have one vendor, because
som e parks are more lucrative than others, and if they took
t kit and caboodle, we thought, you know, I mean, I guess,
yo ow, we wanted to see on the bids if that -- if somebody, you
know, thought it was advantageous to them, and they obviously
thought that it was.
Commissioner Saunders and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Page 191
June 27, 2023
I think Commissioner McDaniel addressed the issue I was
concerned about. We have the letter from Zach Lombardo. I don't
know if there's anybody here from Paddle Marco by any chance.
No? Yes? Okay.
And it does sound like that language may be a little bit
confusing in terms of the general "you can bid on other stuff." I just
want to make sure that we treated everybody fairly. I did 1 a
conversation with Ms. Edwards earlier, and I think -- I thQ)we did.
But I just want to give Paddle Marco an opportunity to express their
concern, and perhaps we can address that. But I Akwou -- I think
you covered it, but I just want to make sure. a o�make sure
everybody's treated fairly.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I saw t e emails, too, yeah. Is
somebody here from Paddle Marco
MR. LIVESEY: Permission�o�p ?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: kpah. No, absolutely.
MR. MILLER: I do ha&OPle.
registered speakers. I don't
know if it's either one of th
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: Well, we'll get to this gentleman
first, but we'll see if yoVcan compare notes and see if he's one of the
two speakers.
MR. LI E I'm one of the speakers.
MR. IL R: Are you Glenn?
MR. EY: Yeah.
LER: All right. So it's been a long day. I couldn't
re�ber what you looked like.
MR. LIVESEY. All right. So, yeah. Paddle Marco. My
name's Glenn. I've been doing it eight years out of Caxambas.
MR. MILLER: State your last name, please.
MR. LIVESEY: Oh, Glenn Livesey.
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Page 192
June 27, 2023
MR. LIVESEY: Been doing it eight years out of Caxambas
and Isles of Capri Paddle Craft Park. Always enjoyed working with
the County. I appreciate the opportunities the counties have given us
to work on those properties most of the time.
So when this bid proposal came up, I think it was in Februa I
took a look at it, because we've all been waiting around patie t�
the marinas to open so we can get part of our livelihoods b
And I looked at the bid proposal, and I saw, okay, ' an't
include watersport rentals, but I wanted to be sure, b our
commercial permits always seem to be in jeopard
So I asked a question on BidSync as wel t C unty email.
The question stated is: If I was to bid on the a ty marinas on
ld BidSync right now, I am wondering if I w e able to rent kayaks,
jet skis, et cetera, as a concessionaire, rictly managing the
marina, fuel, bait, etcetera? Tha to.
My response from the Count 1 days later was: No, this is
strictly for managing marina, ait, etcetera.
CHAIRMAN LoC Who sent you that? Who was
the -- who was that perso
MR. LIVESEY: ;ha is from Christopher Lo -- let me look.
Christopher -- Christopher Lopez, and that is a procurement person.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. LIVESEY: That is a procurement strategist for Collier
County.
, okay. It's going to be business as usual. It's just a
ne4jNter n running the marinas. I don't have to worry about
soNne having kayak racks there taking all the walkup traffic, et
cetera.
So I didn't bid on it, and 10 or 12 other companies didn't bid on
it as well. All the jet ski guys would have bid on this stuff -- kayak
guys would have bid on this stuff if we would have had a foothold in
Page 193
June 27, 2023
there, but we were under the impression, especially with this question
being answered by the County, that it wouldn't include watersport
rentals --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. LIVESEY: -- because that would be an unfair advant e.
I understand Olema, she put our mind a little bit at ease, tl 0 r
commercial permits are not in jeopardy for now. That's awe-sQme.
But two years down the road, I don't want somebo o come
and say, hey, this B1uWater's doing real good, you And it's
she, by the way. Her name's Cam. She's doing r od. I think
she can handle all this. We don't need these er companies. I
don't want that to happen, because I've been ar d way longer than
her, as all the other companies. I do abo 4, 00 customers a year,
and she's doing four jet skis to eightj e ay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I
MR. LIVESEY: Okay. So drawn a lot of revenue for this
county.
Other notes here -- 0 seconds.
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: No, we're not going to -- we're not
going to cut you off.
MR. LIVE�EY: All right. I left my speech in the car, but it's
all in my heae,
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can we address that
initial -- because your initial -- you know, I mean, to me this is black
and Q
We're here all about transparency. So this seems very
b;1Zwhite that he asked a very clear question, somebody from
ouf came back and said, no, absolutely not, and then, you know,
t!j
he contract that we're sitting here with has those nuances that are
different. So, you know, separate rumor from fact here --
MS. HERRERA: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- because what I'm hearing here
Page 194
June 27, 2023
seems clear, but what are we missing?
MS. HERRERA: So the RFP was to outsource the marinas. It
was not specific for kayaking or watercrafts. While the solicitation
did have a Criteria Number 3, like I mentioned earlier, where we did
want the vendor or [sic] community to provide any additional re Is.
At the time that the question was posed, county staff, Pa c,
did not intend to include specifically kayak rentals. It cam
during negotiations. O
Now, BluWater, as part of their proposal, did in t that
component in their proposal to offer future service ayak rentals.
So during negotiations, that was discussed wi o rks director,
and it was accepted to increase that revenue.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That Pgotsia"te
-- you know, we're
not -- I've got other people lit up here.eems, like, unfair to me
because, you know, you're suppos , what you've
advertised. So if then the person a was sort of like the winner or
the first (unintelligible) you n&etter
e with then starts changing the
rules or comes up with s mouse trap, these guys don't
know it. And so, you kn really, Contracting 101 doesn't really
work that way, unless you tell me something different. So I
understand wha pened. I was BluWater. I got called to the
table, and the 1 wa like, hey, let me see if I can -- now I've got a
one -on -on co rsation with the County. But, you know, the
bottom lin at this gentleman says -- Glenn, right?
ESEY: Yeah.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: What Glenn says to me has merit
or e why it doesn't, because it seems like that after -the -fact
negotiation after everybody else was sort of boxed out is a foul.
I -- you know, I don't want to jump too far ahead, but if
BluWater -- unless I'm missing something -- would have come to me
as a county negotiator, I would have said, well, no, that's not part of
Page 195
June 27, 2023
initial bid, but it's a great idea. And it could have been a subsequent
thing that went out for bid, and then BluWater could have amended
their contract after Glenn and a whole bunch of other people bid, and
then it would have been more of a competition. But it seems like,
you know, BluWater sort of had a -- has a little bit of a corner on
the -- on the market to be able to sort of, like, add in the extra ' s
to their contract to make it better for them, and, because no f these
guys bid off of the initial contract, there really was no c tition.
So it made the contract better for BluWater, but now, I
think Glenn's got a solid point here. I think, you the
negotiations should have been what was in th it R P. And
even though that line was in there, saying, oh - u now, it gave
you an opening to say, oh, and any other sib e rentals. If he
wouldn't have read that email, I wo-41d id, well, you know
what -- but he actually asked for cc, ion.
If he would not -- Glenn, if ould have not sent that email, I
would sit here and go, man, y of to read fine print, Glenn. It
was right in there. It sa' ou could have put anything, but you
were unsure of that.
And, you know, tll*t's why I said, I'm not trying to throw Carlos
under the bus, bou know, we're here to be transparent. I want to
know who fr he staff, you know, gave you that very definitive
direction. An ' may not have been an error. Maybe that was the
direction th at county contractor got, but then it seemed like after
the f we zeroed in on BluWater, then we started to sort of
t contract. I don't know how my colleagues feel, and I've
go lit up here, but --
MS. HERRERA: And just to clarify for the record, BluWater's
proposal already included that, so it was discussed during negotiation
because it was already part of their proposal. So at no time did they
modify their proposal, because it was already there.
Page 196
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But he was looking to make a
proposal and was told that he couldn't, right?
MR. LIVESEY: As well as other companies.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MS. HERRERA: And the question was specific to the kay
rental services. Again, the essence of the RFP was to hire a �Z
se
concessionaire for all of the services, not just that one com nt.
MR. LIVESEY: I have no issue with BluWater. e a nice
lady. My request -- and I think this would be the ri 'ng to
do -- is honor the contract, but you need to remov atersport
rental aspect of it. That's already being servi s and 20, 30
other people that work collectively at these pa s. he watersport
rental was never in the initial bid proposa6 If it was, we would have
bid on it. So I would like to just regu ve that removed;
otherwise, she can do the rest. T t%--
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: e me just ask you this, though.
So you were -- you were look' make a bid if you could have had
the water rental craft in t t do you realize that if you would
have got the bid, you wou ave had to run a convenience store full
of stuff, which doesn't s®und like your area of expertise.
MR. LIVE : The only -- the only way I would have bid is if
watersport re a s s included, and now looking at it, it's clear as
day that it' in considerations. And now it's like, okay, if that
was being iated and we didn't know about it, I would have been
interested ' it, as would other companies. But it seems like it's
b,slipped in here in the 11 th inning or whatever.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me go to my colleagues.
Commissioner Hall and then Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Glenn. I mean, I don't
know what the opportunity is that we have to put it out for bid to
make it clear to allow everybody to include watercraft and gas and a
Page 197
June 27, 2023
management. I don't know if that's a possibility.
But the questions that I have for you is 6 percent of fuel and
8 percent of sales, who is footing the bill for the cost of goods?
Does the County buy the fuel or does the vendor buy the fuel?
MS. EDWARDS: The vendor buys the fuel. \Vt4,
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. As long as that's+
happening, I'm good with the gross sales figure. If we wer yang
the fuel, I would want something on gross profit. Oka �o
worries.
Is any cash accepted?
MS. EDWARDS: That is a good questi regards to?
COMMISSIONER HALL: In regards to a es at any of these
places.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, yes. �T -- the vendor has to
have a point -of -sale system. So t take cash, credit card,
unless we just tell them that we them just to do credit cards.
COMMISSIONER HAL s pretty easy to fudge numbers
with cash.
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: And, actually, that was an
accusation by the ast vendor that I heard from some of the residents
that are in my d' ' ct and Port of the Islands, that they made the
comment wh e ntered the store in those last final months -- and
just totally un- you know, I'm just telling you the one-sided. We
didn't do a vestigation. It was kind of after the fact -- that they
were ged to pay cash.
And to Commissioner Hall's point, if that encouragement was
there, then there was probably some -- you know, a possibility of
some skim going on, was -- and also, too, we had caught that
previous vendor doing some other things, sort of renting additional
parking spots for trailers -- Mr. Rodriguez knows all about this -- and
taking 100 percent of the profits, and those trailers were parked on
June 27, 2023
county property.
So I don't want to get too much into the weeds, but that is a valid
point that is something that -- you know, we've got to make sure that,
you know, money's not leaking out of the back.
Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- on the note o tv
watercraft rental, is there an opportunity to exclude that out
BluWater's contract and just -- well, we have -- we hav lae sed
commercial companies that actually do these busines � our
p Y ,
different parks and ramps. So just take that porti of the lease
and go ahead and go forward with the BluWa m agement of
these four parks and allow the vendors to com a d o? Because
these folks -- now, it doesn't address that ail that Glenn has that --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: fie ve got the whole
contract.
COMMISSIONER McDA I Well, him or any other of the
other 20 vendors that saw that that didn't bid on this agreement.
So it may be prudent for bid this with more clarity.
MR. KLATZKOW: u can change the terms of the contract,
but then the vendo haslhe opportunity to walk away.
COMMISS ER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. KL W: So if you want to make any changes to
this, that's ou erogative. That's why we bring it to you. But
then the ve can either accept your changes or walk away.
SSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
I'm just -- you know, he's one commercial contractor that
ha ayank -- kayak. I call them kayanks -- a kayak business that
he does, and there may have been other vendors that saw that email
from procurement that didn't bid on this that could have bid on this or
would have bid on this but didn't because their primary business is
the watercraft rental.
Page 199
June 27, 2023
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Commissioner, if I may, for the record,
just to clarify something, these vendors, the commercial kayakers that
come to our facilities, it's launch and go. They should not be staging
in our parking lots and waiting for walkups.
If you go to Isles of Capri Kayak Launch, you'll see 80 kaya
trying to be launched at once by commercial vendors, and the �+
residents have to wait and wait to launch their single kayak.
So the intent of this contract is to give some option C)he
future. That doesn't mean the director has to approv If you'd
like, we can bring that back for the Board to appro f we have a
better understanding of how that might work. u e goal of this
contract, as our procurement director clearly st e , was a
concessionaire to manage the fuel and the 'stri ution of goods and
services to the public.
The fact that they offered tha tential service is something
that we would look at in the future et's say they can't maintain
their personnel because of sho in revenues out of season and
whatnot. That may be a
And, again, the co m cial vendors of kayak companies, as
well as others, should n.*t be using these Parks facilities to operate
their business. ey can't use it to advertise. They're there to
launch and g
COMMI ONER McDANIEL: Right. That's been -- that
was primar e of our issues for limiting the permits in the first
plac , e they were setting up camp in the parking spots and
w r the phone to ring, so --
t I do appreciate the fact that, you know, a potential bidder on
this P that we put out was told that it was specifically for the
management of the -- of the facilities and didn't include the rental
aspect of it. That is a concern.
MR. LIVESEY: If I could add one thing real quick,
Page 200
June 27, 2023
parking -- paddle craft parking, no issues with parking, and there's
always a middle section for people to get through. There's never a
time people have to wait. In fact, all week long, all those cars in the
parking lot are our customers and two other companies. You might
see one or two recreational people.
I know you get a lot of complaints, but a lot of times the 're
from the same five guys who are antibusiness. So I want t t let
you know we're courteous about that. 0
And that's pretty much all I have to say. I knois one
other speaker here, Maria, that would like to add. ha k you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, co speaker.
MR. MILLER: The second speaker is ri eilly.
MS. REILLY: Hello. Thank you, lli r County.
Commissioners, for the time.
I will refer to the proposal fr ater Rentals, a
(unintelligible) rental operator tha take over all four marinas:
Goodland, Caxambas, Port of lands, and Cocohatchee.
My main concern is a2i1s to incorporate watercraft rentals
from the vendor. I see the a conflict of interest. Currently, the
marinas have tour perators that offer those services, and the main
issue with the c anies that operate with permits is parking and
dealing with e other vendors that still operate without permits.
Colli C ty announced that no more permits will be issued,
and I see th' an as a problem because the new vendor is a tour
oper r ch will create a conflict, offering more services when
t c panies that already have permits.
arinas have been saturated. I don't see where there should be
a stationary vendor that can provide these services. I see this as an
ongoing problem for the County in the future still trying to resolve
the current issues developed in the commercial permit program.
The vendor currently has three permits. Eventually, she could
Page 201
June 27, 2023
offer other activities with those three permits she currently has. But
the County had made it clear that there are no new permits to be
issued because parks had reached their maximum capacity.
Currently, companies have to trailer their equipment and cannot
show up with them without reservations. How is it possible thane
vendor would be allowed to have stationary kayaks, paddlebo y IF
wave runners, and other watercrafts, and would the vendor be
sublease these? 0
The main idea for a vendor taking over four mar*J s to satisfy
daily operations, maintenance, safety, security, sel bait, ice,
food, drinks, snacks, etcetera.
The problem with the conflict of interest, s e it as a continuous
commercial permit issued. I would urge Board to further review
the proposal from BluWater, LLC, to 7, plans to
incorporate watercraft rentals. T , ' ion wouldn't benefit the
County or users of the ramp, com e ial or residential.
The proposal for Goodla kayaks, paddleboards, fishing
posts, boats and wave runrre ort of the Islands: Kayaks and
p Y
boats; Caxambas: Kayaks, paddleboards, fishing posts, no
motorized vessels; andi-ocohatchee: Kayaks, paddle boards, fishing
posts and boat a wave runners.
Thank y
MR. IL R: That was our only speaker, those two.
CHA N LoCASTRO: And, really, what I've heard here,
the o thug that just really concerns me significantly -- the biggest
t that concerns me significantly is what our county person replied
baN 4 Glenn with -- Carlos -- because, you know, that vendor and
many others were operating off of the thought that, you know, they
were -- you know, they weren't going to make a bid on the entire kit
and caboodle because it didn't include the thing that they really
specialized in, and so then they walked away.
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June 27, 2023
And then once BluWater, who felt like they specialized in
everything, sealed the deal, then they kind of added in a bunch of
extras that Glenn and a bunch of others were told weren't going to
ever be a part of the contract. So that doesn't really sit great with
me. IN
I don't know how colleagues feel. Commissioner Hall. �+
COMMISSIONER HALL: The way I see it, we have o
choices. We have a choice to award the contract to Blu;akr with
the exclusion of the watercraft, or we go back and rebi<Napples to
apples.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Or t ou know,
when we go back to -- if we went back to Blu at r and said it's
going to exclude watercraft, like the Cou At orney said, they could
walk, and then we're back to Optior�2.
COMMISSIONER HALL: ' t.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTROA o . s sort of a -- Commissioner
McDaniel, and then Commi
COMMISSIONER ^
owal.
That's exactly what I was
going to say. It's -- we ei e issue the contract and exclude the
watercraft rentals and allow that to be --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMM ONER McDANIEL: -- on an independent basis, or
we go bac ou bid again.
CHA N LoCASTRO: Yeah. And if we excluded
wate d BluWater didn't walk, then you go out to bid for the
w part. BluWater can bid on it, but then it's more
tra sp rent to everybody else and BluWater might not get it. It
might be, you know, a different vendor, and then how you made that
work, I don't know, you know, I mean, because BluWater now owns
the marina store, and they probably were going to have all their
kayaks and everything sort of as part of that operation. If somebody
Page 203
June 27, 2023
else came in and got, like, a secondary contract and was also able to
operate, you know, the watercraft business out of there -- but, I mean,
I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I could see that as
being overly complicated. ASS
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. IZW
Yeah, I just think we have a responsibility to be trans t in
this situation. I mean, it may have just been a mistake
oversight, you know, when the gentleman answered t ail, but he
did answer it. And what he read, the gentleman day read, it
sounded like he was interested in putting a bi en he didn't
have the option to do the rental portion, he sai �y a ow what? It's
probably not worth it.
You know, I can do the rental t,�i I'll put up with
doing the other part just to have a ivity to rent -- you know, to
have a brick -and -mortar place to rrom one of our parks, which I
think is a big selling point. nn
So I think we need t^a`Ge arity up front, and I think, if we
exclude it, it's up to BluWater to walk away or not. I mean, it
doesn't matter. You know, that's on them. But I think moving
forward, we've got to be very, very clear what we're willing to allow
them to do or do, because this is what happens when we're not
clear. A w finitely -- you know, I was sitting here, until he
read that e , and I'm like -- yeah, I don't like it. It's muddy. So
that' ing on the whole thing.
MISSIONER McDANIEL: So what are you saying? Do
yo nk we ought to rebid or exclude it --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think we should go to
BluWater and say, listen, because of this transparency issue -- and we
want to be transparent with our vendors and our public -- that we're
probably going to remove that from the contract, you know, under
Page 204
June 27, 2023
our discussion here today. And if they want to stay with what they
have, that's fine. If they -- you know, without that, then that's on
them. And then if they walk away, then we rebid it being very clear
what we're going to allow the vendor to do.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And we can explain it to them, ' e,
they took the old adage "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than I
permission." So they just included their watercraft. But in Ais
gentleman's case, he asked the question, and he was excluded, you
know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: From eveYing on the
whole thing. ��""
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- by even bi di g on it, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've go ommissioner Saunders lit
up here. Let's give him -- go ahead, s .
COMMISSIONER SAUND 5 eah, I agree with
everything that's been said in term o clarity, and I did have a bit of a
concern with that. But in my rsation with Ms. Edwards earlier
today, there was a -- the r timing problem, so we need to
understand what that timi problem is.
If you go to the ve,pdor and take out the kayak rental and they
say, yes, they'll continue on it, that's fine. But if they say no, then
we have, I be *e e, a really tight schedule here. So we need to
understan wh hat is so we can be prepared for that.
MS. RDS: If we do, we will not have the necessary
servi that means your ice, your bait, because as Parks and
R t staff, we're not set up, I guess you could say, to offer
th ervices right now. And if it does back out to bid again, you're
looking at an additional four months -- four to six months, excuse me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why that long when this was a
little bit quicker? This didn't take four to six months, did it?
MS. HERRERA: It will be an RFP process, not an ITB, so it's
Page 205
June 27, 2023
a little bit of a longer process.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But we have, from time to
time, shortened that process. So I'm not sure how much we can
shorten it, but I know we -- I know we can, but it's just a matter of
how much. I mean, you've already got the basic document.
MS. HERRERA: We would -- yes. So we would, in esse` ce,
reissue the solicitation and make that clarification. 144
And, again, for the record, just to clarify, the inten Rt eRFP
was to have a concessionaire to provide all the servi;en the
question came in, it was not the County's intentio lore that
option. During negotiations, it was consider a t as accepted
by county staff to include the watercrafts.
So we can definitely go back to the v dor, have a discussion to
remove that, and then bring it back to d.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDL nd then if you sharpen
your pencil a little bit, what's the q i est you could do an RFP? I
know you don't have to have ' n the streets for months at a time.
MS. HERRERA: ld reduce, in essence, the time for
advertisement. Typicall , e do the 30-day advertisement, and we
could reduce that t 21 days and then bring it back to the Board. We
would have a se ion committee meeting, so that would take
another mont qnd at's why Ms. Olema said anywhere from four to
six monin
COM IONER SAUNDERS: Who is on the selection
comm
11 HERRERA: I can look that up. I don't have it with me.
MMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Is it all staff folks?
MS. HERRERA: Yes. County staff, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So you could have a
selection committee meeting on rather short notice.
MS. HERRERA: Yes.
Page 206
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I'm not understanding
why it would take as long as you're suggesting. I would think that
you would be able to do the RFP, issue that very quickly, have it on
the street for a couple of weeks, have a committee meeting as soon as
they come in, and then be back in front of us. I would think 45 60
days would be more than enough time, versus three or four in
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And here's why I agree t at as
well, is the word's already out there, so this has been ad i ed once.
So this isn't some unknown thing.
And Glenn and the rest of the universe a0goispread -- if
we go this direction -- are going to spread thawildfire.
Hey, the rebidding is -- you know, is being re
And so, you know, we're dealing wit own vendors who I
think are aware of this. I'm not sayin this is great, but if
Glenn wouldn't have read that em2% t,' k you would have got a
unanimous vote here for BluWateN r
But, you know, when I r t t, we've got -- you know, we've
got to be, you know, not nsparent, but, you know, we've got
to serve with integrity her And maybe it was an oversight. I'm
not -- I don't think any of us are saying that there was sort of -- and I
understand your lanation of, hey, this was the bid, but then when
we sort of sat wn the table -- but you sat down at the table with
one vendo aft verybody else walked out the door. They didn't
get the opp ity to sit down at the table and sort of negotiate that
kind of thing either.
o the way contracts work is everybody gets a fair shot, and
kn g that we might have had one or a dozen different vendors not
even bid because they thought it was sort of a very finite set of rules,
and then once BluWater came up -- to Commissioner Hall's point, it's
perfectly said. It's like you, you know, better to, you know, beg
forgiveness than ask permission. That's sort of what happened.
Page 207
June 27, 2023
And, you know, I don't love it.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It also brings up a point:
These were sealed bids. Now BluWater's numbers are out. We
didn't put out an RFP that says, you're going to pay us 6 percent
8 percent and 100 percent. Those numbers are already out. th
all due respect, Glenn knows what BluWater was willing to
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. 01%
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- to pay.
So if we do rebid it, it has to be -- it should b ink it should
be under these parameters that this board find cc ale on
those -- put those percentages back up on here or me, please -- under
these percentages. This RFP or IRT or vAtever acronym she used,
these numbers should be specified iV t isement that this is
our minimum requisites for us to -* to -- for everybody to be
bidding on, because if I'm BluWat d I'm looking at this, I have an
opportunity to add in boat ren watercraft rentals of any
kind -- of some kind of s now my competition can offer
9 percent and take the bi ay.
MS. EDWARDS:**And, Commissioner, I would like to ask for
the Board's recommendation. He was talking about being
transparent a air. You have a commercial vendor right now.
They alre ANe commercial permits. Do they lose their permits
being a co Tcial vendor currently right now? And then also
goin o d, if we are doing this, are they going to have exclusive
ri ecause currently, right now, BluWater does not have
ex ve rights. So all the commercial vendors can still operate the
same way that they're operating. But if we go out to bid for an RFP
for this particular portion, are the vendors going to lose their
commercial status? Because if it's going to be a conflict of interest,
and then, like I said, will they be allowed to have exclusive rights?
June 27, 2023
Because that's the whole premise that people are being upset for,
and I'm trying to tell them that you're not losing your commercial
status or anything. You can still operate the same way that you
operate.
And as Ms. Sandra stated, when we first put this RFP out, It as
strictly for the marinas. We weren't thinking paddle craft. I
know that this email even came up until today. So it's a so ation.
And the only thing they can do is talk to Procurement. e can't
even talk to us, because we can't talk to the vendors.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And to your po' - nd then I'll
go to Commissioner Saunders -- we're not bo n out from
doing watercraft, but his point is, hey, I could v had the whole
thing. I could have had the store. I cou ave had everything, and
then I could have had a brick-and-nlo to rent my watercraft
where, you know, now you're not me out of business, but
somebody sort of leapfrogged m . d maybe he would have even
made a more competitive bid. be he would have given
9 percent, 7 percent, and cent and, you know, he would have
been the top bidder.
But we didn't eveWet a chance to hear from Glenn and from
some others bec e they were scared away by like -- by email that
he read, but a wasn't, and then in the negotiations, B1uWater
started ad "rig ome sort of, like, frosting that sounded even better
to us.
you said, you not being aware that a bunch of other
verfd s ere scared off, it sounded like the B1uWater deal was
sounding even better by the second. And it sounds like we're all
being made aware of this at zero hour.
You know, I don't know. Sometimes, too, when there's, you
know, SNAFUs like this -- and I'm not offering this as -- you know,
we're trying to do the right thing across the Board and whatnot, but
Page 209
June 27, 2023
also, too, we're trying to do the right thing by our citizens who, right
now, have been suffering for months with nothing.
You know, so sometimes when a company has a SNAFU, to
include the County, sometimes you swallow the spinach and go, you
know what, it wasn't perfect. Glenn, you're not being boxed -- a
I'm saying -- I'm not saying this is the answer, okay. But just, ti g
hypotheticals and then, you know, everybody's lit up here.
t
But sometimes you sit here and go, you know wha ae didn't
do it perfectly, but it's 51 percent good and 49 perc
100 percent bad these last few months because noe '
get anything.
You know what?
perfectly.
Lesson learned here.
Glenn's not out of the busines
run the store.
Maybe he couldn't.
default is we honor the contract
frosting that she added with the
But, you know, if she wa
disappointing as well, so,
this.
.. It's been
been able to
► c7di'dn't do it
ybe he could have
said, maybe the
we exclude all the
Nvay, that's going to be
se I know a lot of effort's gone into
Let's hear from theoother commissioners.
Saunders, and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
I'm not so
for a
0
Commissioner
I'm a little bit confused, but
t that's a bad thing here.
Ira vendor that can rent the kayaks -- and let's assume
that that's not Paddle Marco. So we have -- we
Ode go through some bid or something, and BluWater gets the
has paddle -- kayak rentals, what does that do to Paddle
Marco and other vendors? That's a question for you, because do we
want to -- if -- if the operator of the facility can rent kayaks, then does
that put the independent operators out there that -- like Paddle Marco
that rent these kayaks but not on site, does that put you out of
Page 210
June 27, 2023
business?
MR. LIVESEY: No. It would just take away any potential
walk-up or people doing research walking through the park.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So we wouldn't be creating a
bigger problem for other people if we did that? N
MR. LIVESEY: Her ability to rent things is still there.
has three permits. She can bring three trailers in and rent 'Arkis and
kayaks at those parks, once -- especially Caxambas if it ns to
commercial. She has that ability, but this just gives
brick -and -mortar. So I'd be fine with removing w ort rental.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I wa a e sure we
weren't creating other problems by --
MR. LIVESEY: No, thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDE4S: ht. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman. �,
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: y. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HAL eah. What it does is it eliminates
the brick -and -mortar compet for the watercraft only. So the two
choices that we have, basically, are to honor the contract, exclude the
watercraft. That's the path"of least resistance. That's the fastest.
She gets the firs ht of refusals. She either says yes or she says
no. If she s s o, en we can do the expedited RFP process. And
so -- can I taKlmotion? Is it time to do that?
CHAN LoCASTRO: Well, I've got a
coup - ssioner McDaniel's got a question, too.
IONER McDANIEL: Well, it -- she has three
lic s s, so -- and she is allowed to do the watercraft rental. She
just -- we would exclude the brick -and -mortar portion from this
contract. She can still do her -- she can still do her watercraft rental
but just not have the brick -and -mortar aspect of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: She can still do it the same way the
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June 27, 2023
paddle craft does it?
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The way anybody else is
doing it, and that gets us to where we need to be as expeditiously as
possible, exclude that from her -- this agreement, and if she agre to
it, she's in. If she doesn't agree to it, then we go back out fort
with these as -- with these as minimum requisites for the bi t
these at minimums which then -- and I really think we s do that
aspect of it because they're -- you know, we have tw ors that
are here that potentially could have bid on this tha t because of
a -- because of an email that went out that sai o, . d esn't include
what you actually do as a business, so --
MS. EDWARDS: I just want to m sure that whichever
vendor we decide, that the main focus ake sure that we had
ice, bait, everything that we need e marinas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: t e.
MS. EDWARDS: This' a step -aside. And I want to
make sure that people th ding, that they're not bidding for
watercraft. They're biddi for what we're actually needing.
CHAIRMAN LoCAS RO: Well -- go ahead, sir.
COMMISS ER McDANIEL: And I want to share this. I
mean, those is , ies to have at the marina, but for those of us that
travel to t m a to launch our boat, we're -- I'm just as likely to
stop and ge on the way, and ice and food, anything else that I
need other vendor before I ever get to the marina. Those are
n' have at the marina but not necessities.
AIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, listen, I've got to disagree with
you. I got a ton of emails from some people that live right near the
marina that use that marina. They don't travel to Walmart. They
live right across the street from the marina. They live in Goodland,
they live in Port of the Islands, and they're used to going over to the
Page 212
June 27, 2023
marina, getting ice, bait, Twinkies, 7 UP, Gatorade, water, and then
jumping in their boat, and they can't get any of that now, and so I
hear from those people all day long saying, When are you going to
get the store open?
And it was because our previous vendor provided everythin
And a lot of people used the marina stores -- at Port of the Isly
they used it as their local 7-Eleven. They don't even have at, but
they would go in there and buy Twinkies, bread, milk, eything,
because it was a little general store, and now it's lock empty.
So it's -- some of these places are more than ittle marina
store that somebody grabs shrimp and ice and en a es. I mean,
especially the one on Port of the Islands, that o e' used as the local
store because it's a little bit of a drive for AT o go elsewhere. So,
I mean, that's just the reality of it.
You know, you did make a g . t, though, Olema. Like,
some of the watercraft, you kno o ' clude Glenn and others, you
know, they might have bid otould
hole kit and caboodle, but that's
why I asked Glenn, hey, got it, you're ready to run a
7-Eleven? So you got th ick-and-mortar for your watercraft part,
but I -- you know, 'ust eking a guess here, I don't know that you're as
perfectly set up luWater to run a store that sells, milk, ice, bait,
an Gatorade, an o juice, and that's the big chunk of this.
So it ou ave given you boots on the ground for your
business th u're a pro at, but what we were really looking for was
a Bl at could do all of it. And so the bigger thing is the
st he fuel and all of that.
S if somebody that's an expert at renting, you know, kayaks,
whether it's paddle craft or somebody else -- and, granted, we won't
know. You know, Glenn could have put in a bid. He could have
found a partner. He could have done something and said, you know,
I can't do the whole thing, but I found somebody that ran four
Page 213
June 27, 2023
7-Elevens, and that's my new partner, and I'll take them all, and he
got boxed out of that.
But on the flip side also, too, it might have looked like a very
lucrative type of contract to some of these watercraft -- exclusive
watercraft companies, but I don't know, necessarily, that their bi
would have been at the top of the pile with experience showi
that they can run four general stores, two of them pretty lar es.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. That wai of on the
lines I was going, because I don't know the histo Reits
Water, but I
was just -- but I found out now that they have e to rent
kayaks and jet skis, and it sounds like that's th siness they do. I
don't know what experience they have in it and fuel -- refueling
and the fuel sales. I don't know w1lat tory is in that. Do
you know?
MS. EDWARDS: One of th(3lo Veers actually -- from what I
understand, one of the owners ex-husband of the former --
CHAIRMAN LoC Vendor.
MS. EDWARDS. -- ndor. And so --
COMMISSIONER K WAL: Okay.
MS. EDW S: -- he said -- I'm being transparent. You -all
said be trans r t ere.
CO I NER KOWAL: My wife does mortgages all day
long. I w t dare to do a mortgage, you know what I'm saying?
MS. EDWARDS: But he explained during the negotiation and
when he came in to bid that he taught her the business. So he has
joined --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: She has no real -- operating a
business like this. She's never had hands on and ran a 7-Eleven, like
the commissioner's talking about, or sold --
MS. EDWARDS: They're both together.
Page 214
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER KOWAL:
station?
-- fuel or worked in a gas
MS. EDWARDS: They're working together. So they have a
business together. Now not the ex -vendor, but the ex-husband and
the current -- N
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And BluWater.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes. 'V
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. All right. O
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So our previous veswas Cindy.
So Cindy's ex-husband has partnered with -- let's,sparent.
Cindy's ex-husband has partnered with BluW t%at's who
Y
made the bid, right?
IN EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:
can use real names, you know.
MS. EDWARDS: Being
COMMISSIONER KO
Z
is a small town. We
A$'�.V'
I just know our biggest concern
is running a retail operat' v4a�
MS. EDWARDS:
COMMISSIONER K WAL: And whatever they do on the
side that they makSa� little extra money doing their rental, you know,
I et it. But ' un* like her business is rental also just like Glenn.
g �J
MS. ED DS: Correct.
COM IONER KOWAL: It's her expertise. So, you
kno - ou're being very specific: I want a store.
EDWARDS: Correct.
MMISSIONER KOWAL: I want a store. And you kind of
look at Glenn, well, he rents kayaks, and we're questioning if he can
run a store. He might be able to run a store just as good as she can.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or he could have found a partner
like BluWater did.
Page 215
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. You know what I'm
saying? I don't know at this point, so that's why I asked the question.
I don't know who BluWater is. I don't know who they are. I don't
know her ex-husband. I don't know what their experience is, that's
why I asked, and it doesn't sound like -- N
MS. EDWARDS: What I understand, they have experi r�
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So you're con f t she's
done this before? 0
MS. EDWARDS: Yes. And if we just need toga& the
watercraft rentals out, I am happy to do that. Ireq
n't want to
have to go back out to bid because it's been th' oCurrently
right now, the County is footing the bill for th atwe're selling
currently, right now, and we have staff de ated to this operation
that we could be using at our park fgciz' ssv.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: ask this. This will help a
lot.
MS. EDWARDS: Yesie�
CHAIRMAN LoC Okay. So BluWater won the bid,
and what we heard here p 'ously is then while we sat down in
negotiations, she was adding some little frosting things here and
there. �i
MS. EDVV�AR�: Yes.
CHA LoCASTRO: Whoever was in -- I don't know if
you -all we sonally in the negotiations.
ARDS: Yes.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: So -- but if you were, give us the
ho s answer here. Was the contract already secured for the store,
and then, as part of sort of additional conversations, the watercraft
sounded like a positive thing, but she was already locked in?
So I'm asking you for a gut check here. Do you think she's
going to walk because the watercraft is what sealed the deal, or that
Page 216
June 27, 2023
was just sort of some extra conversations afterwards that made it that
much sweeter? But she bid on the stores, got the stores, and then the
watercraft stuff came after, which was, in my opinion, a foul. But
was the initial locked -in contract for the stores -- the stores only, she
bid, she was interested, done deal, or did it take the negotiations
add in watercraft to really make it a deal that got sealed? �+
MS. EDWARDS: When she submitted her proposal _91� had
everything included. So she -- so what she would do w't t ie stores,
and then she also added in with the watercraft --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, so the wate was part of
initial bid? It wasn't negotiated after? It wa s e ing that was
sort of --
MS. EDWARDS: No, that was her osal. That was her
proposal. Like I said, I was unawake had reached out
through BidSync. I just found th d a day.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Y.
MS. EDWARDS: So w e did that proposal, we looked at
everything that she adde gave numbers for what she could do
for the stores, for sales, fo el, parking. When I say "parking," if
the meters were down, the would take the fees for us, but we would
get $9, and she Id get a dollar for her credit card transaction if
she had to to on for parking. If.
But t at all included. And so when we talked about it, you
know, I wa , well, I don't have a problem if you're renting. We
neve em exclusive rights. We never told them that they
c t e any of their equipment on site or anything.
N1011 e currently does this as a business or a side business, and if
that was an opportunity for the County to get more revenue, because
we get 8 percent off all gross sales, I was like, go for it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But what you found out today was
there was other people out there that --
Page 217
June 27, 2023
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- whose bids you never saw
because they were sort of chased off with emails like what Glenn
read.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm still a little confused
because -- I'm sorry [sic] with names, but --
MS. EDWARDS: Olema. 0
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Sitting behind y
Twice you made the statement that this was ' hought, that
in a discussion, it was an afterthought. Was ' e ought
putting together the advertisement, or was -- th IV
IV
t' w at -- I just want
to get clarity when that became an afterth ht or when it was
discussion, a roundtable discussion.
MS. HERRERA: So the RFP NN ' sued to request a
concessionaire to provide all the es as listed in the RFP, and in
the criteria, like I mentioned e , there was a line stating that if
there's any other rental o i ies, to go ahead and list that for
consideration. The quest did come in through BidSync. It was
discussed with county 4aff. And at that time the response was, no,
the County's not,# ing for watercrafts, per se, for the kayak
services.
The Ps sed. We received two. Now, let me just put it
into perspe We did advertise for a total of 47 days only
becau was not a lot of competition. So when the RFP closed,
we did eive two submittals. And 5,693 vendors did get the
notification of the RFP, and 45 viewed the RFP, and we only
received two within those 47 days.
The proposal is received. The watercraft services are included.
Contracting negotiations, Ms. Olema attended those contract
negotiations. And then as part of those contract negotiations, they
Page 218
June 27, 2023
discussed including the watercraft portion of it. That's why you see
it in this contract as written because that was accepted by the County
at the time that they were negotiating.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But were you aware somebod
from your office had chased off other possible vendors, telling t
that they couldn't add watercraft into the contract when you w
holding a contract from BluWater that had all of those thin er
initial bid?
MS. HERRERA: I was made aware yesterday question
was posed in regards to that. At the time that the on did come
in, it was presented to Parks county staff, and r o se was no at
that time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What d&2u mean "no" .
MS. EDWARDS: No, that they w! t interested in
including those additional services t 1��ime, that it was strictly a
concessionaire to run the marina .
CHAIRMAN LoCASTD ut BluWater did include them in
their proposal.
MS. EDWARDS: ect.
CHAIRMAN LoC,OKS RO: So, technically, if we would have
been doing this percent correct and we were sticking to our guns
of "we are no i clu &ng watercraft," when BluWater made their
proposal a d h 11 the watercraft in there, we should have called
BluWater and said, hey, you actually submitted a faulty
prop nstead, that proposal looked very attractive to us because
it hese bells and whistles, and you and your staff didn't
re there was other interested vendors that got chased off because
they were -- it would be one thing if Glenn sort of, and others, maybe
misunderstood the proposal, but, you know, when he read the email,
that was really the smoking gun.
We don't really know how many vendors got chased off who
Page 219
June 27, 2023
would have submitted something very similar to BluWater, and that's
why they take exception to it. And then not only were they chased
off, but we accepted BluWater's bid that was on steroids with all the
watercraft stuff, and we sealed a deal.
And, you know, I mean, having said that, as our contract ex ,
I guess I would ask you, what's your recommendation? I me s
is -- this is the business that you're in to represent the Count . nd
this isn't to throw anybody under the bus, but I think we 11
appreciate this is a little bit sloppy, and we want to d right and
we want to make sure that we are transparent.
So as our lead contract person that's stan h podium right
now, what's your suggestion? Do you think s ould just honor the
BluWater contract and tell the people tha ere chased off by Carlos'
email, hey, sorry we made a mistaki. o d, so sad, but, you
know, we've got a great thing in from, s here, and we're going to
be open in minimum time and, w, be serving citizens, or
should we go back to square
MS. HERRERA: urement ordinance provides for the
County to reserve its righ negotiate any type of contractual
relationship. 40
The RFP, a , included language that the services were
limited but n ec c to all of them, it is really at the discretion of
the Board. Li ommissioner Hall had mentioned earlier, there
really are t tions. We either go back and request for the
rem e language to clarify it completely or we go out and we
g the RFP process again. Understanding and knowing that
yo ' robably going to -- may end up potentially with limited
competition based on the last posting and the time that we advertise
for 47 days, but in any event, that is really the Board's decision.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I ask another question real
quick?
Page 220
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: There was two bids?
MS. HERRERA: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did the other bid have any
contingency to do watercraft rental?
MS. HERRERA: No. �+
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No. 'V
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, hearing every�,Q that
we've heard here, my motion would be that we accep .BluWater
contract but we exclude watercraft, we get an ans m BluWater,
and then if that's something that seems like it a petite for it
here, then the watercraft could be a separate co tr ctor. BluWater
could bid on the separate water contract, Aou d Glenn, so could a
bunch of other people. But the con4rakllioVe stores and the things
that BluWater would have, you me would find out from her.
I mean, that -- to me that ju t e s the lesser of all evils. I
think going back to square ze n though this is a little bit sloppy,
you know, I mean, the peo l t are getting harmed here the most
are our citizens. And so, you know, we have to take that into
consideration.
So we mig of have done this one perfectly, but we do have a
contractor th s re red to get these stores reopened. The
watercraft, to are secondary. I mean, I can tell you all but one of
these is in istrict, and nobody is complaining that they can't rent
a kay ey're all complaining about the stores, the bait, the ice,
the wart , everything. That's 100 percent of the complaints.
Be ause they know they can get a kayak. They know they can find
somebody or what have you. So I'm really concerned about the
stores.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think we ought to rebid it.
Page 221
June 27, 2023
I -- you know, with the -- with the already open bid that's set as
minimum parameters. And on the premises that you said, Glenn
could have partnered with a 7-Eleven owner, and, actually he chose
not to bid. There -- is he Zach's client? I can't remember the name
of -- I don't if Jack actually named his client, but -- and it really 1
immaterial.
We have two vendors that are here right now that were' d, no,
we only are looking for -- solicitation is only for the ma' Ince of
the -- or the management of the marina and nothing e So they
just didn't even bid on it.
There may be other companies out there t 1 And I think
we should -- at the sake of making people go t a i erent store to
get their ice for a minute, I think, in trans ency, we should rebid it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: VYh 't we accept BluWater
with the stores only, though, 9you
the watercraft? Why
couldn't we do that? BecausGIuldn't have bid on that, so he
wouldn't have turned in a bid have said, I'll take the store
exclusive of the watercr know, in my mind we're
sort of splitting the differe e and we're being fair.
COMMISSIONEF..#McDANIEL: How many -- why? The
answer is, how many didn't bid because they thought it didn't include
the rental, an h w many are qualified that could have but didn't bid?
Just -- tha ' m hy.
CHA N LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
S SIONER SAUNDERS : I think we're ready for a
t I wanted to ask just a quick question. You had a second
bi
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And was the second bidder's
terms comparable, or what was wrong with the second bidder?
MS. EDWARDS: They really didn't have a strong proposal.
Page 222
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So we really are kind
of down to one?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Based -- and that one is ed
upon the RFP and an email that went out that said we're only g
for the management of the marinas.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think the pru Ching to
do because of timing and everything is to -- and I'll his as a
motion just to get -- I hate to say "just to get the di on going,"
but I'll make a motion to direct staff to go bac o ater, indicate
that the inclusion of the kayak rentals was not rt of the bid
request and that is to be removed and see ' hey're still willing to go
forward with the contract. That wo�ul a t a conforming bid to
what we had asked for. If they s en we're going to have to
rebid, and that's going to be -- th t be a problem.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTAwould second that motion. It's
still not tied up in a nice glow, but, you know, we also have to
look at the emergent con n that we have here, the misspeak by
our county person. So I would second that.
Commissio McDaniel.
COMMO ER McDANIEL: Just one clarification on the
motion m er.Nlon't specify it to be kayak rentals. Watercraft
rentals, et
S SIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. It was -- I think,
rentals is what is in --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All watercraft rentals would be --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You said "kayak" in your
motion, I just wanted -- if we're going to do the -- it probably won't
hurt, because we have a limited pool of people that will be bidding,
but I think doing it that way --
Page 223
June 27, 2023
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
No, you're absolutely right.
I misspoke.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Including watercraft would
be --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But then I would expect we co d
get that answer quickly, you know, and we shouldn't have to
maybe even for the next commissioner meeting. You kno , ounty
Manager could let us know what the answer was. You ka, let's
not burn a lot of daylight here. �•
If BluWater totally falls out, then we are bac pare zero, I
mean, if this motion passed. But I've got a 'o I' e got
Commissioner McDaniel lit up again. Go ahe d, w1rsir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 'u t as a -- and we can
go ahead -- if you want to, we can gp 9
d vote. I just wanted
to ask if maybe we wanted to go a d at least give a consensus
on staff s next move. If BluWate epts our proposal with their
contract minus the watercraft , we're done. If not, then just go
ahead and give notice to,, proceed with another bid and go
forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. KLA OW: Do you want to authorize the County
Manager to e in that contract if BluWater agrees to that?
CHAI LoCASTRO: Yes.
COM IONER McDANIEL: Yes.
Q&J.RMAN LoCASTRO: Yes.
OMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then -- and then staff to
Ad if -- with those advertised numbers as a minimum for the next
RFP.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If we had to do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If we have -- if BluWater
doesn't accept our terms.
Page 224
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are we as clear as mud here? So
the motion is made by Commissioner Saunders, seconded by me, but
we haven't taken a vote yet, but just so you can have it clear here, is
that we go back to BluWater and say, we misspoke or what have you,
but, you know, the extras that you added in weren't part of the in ' 1
bid that we let the world know, so we are excluding that. W
to see if you will, you know, keep the contract that is basic the
store, the fuel, and all of that, and then get that answer. if that
answer comes back, oh, no, all the frosting and all th as are what
really locked in this contract, then guess what? B square zero.
And then let's do an expedient, you know, reb * tart from square
one.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner , 'f we're re- -- if we end
up rebidding, do you want the paddle s an option clearly
or -- S
COMMISSIONER McDANIWatercraft rentals, et al.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST &NVatercraft rentals.
COMMISSIONER EL: And that's -- the only
exclusion in this contract he exclusion of -- other than her licenses.
She's allowed still to rent and do as she does, but she's just out of the
fixed -- the fixed stores.
MS. PA T RSON: Understood for what we're talking about
with B1uW ter. ut should we have to go and rebid this, do you
want the w raft to be allowed -- clearly specified as allowed
unde id or no?
IRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
S. EDWARDS: And will it be the exclusive?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think it should be excluded.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think it should be included.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Included?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah, because that offers -- that
Page 225
June 27, 2023
gives Glenn the opportunity to bid for the store and the watercraft.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Because he was told that he
couldn't bid with the water.
MS. PATTERSON: Nonexclusive?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, wait. Before every�101
just sort of -- okay. So Commissioner Hall thinks it should've
included, okay. SIt?
Commissioner McDaniel, do you have a comm i
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All I' trying
to -- I'm trying to get some order here rather th hat we -- you
know, controlled chaos where we're sittin ere just debating each
other, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANI �, it were me, I would
exclude the watercraft rentals fro t fixed site locations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRQ�,'�Okay. Commissioner Saunders,
what's your thought if it gCts Vo that point, include or exclude?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS : I have no idea.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
CommissiomikKowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think we need a professional
retail pers ru .ng these stores. This is what we're really looking
for. So I t if we have to rebid it, I think we should be clear
there' tercraft in the new bid because that's going to give
p ek- eople that may bid on this just because they want to have
the image of having a brick -and -mortar store for their watercraft, and
they don't really care about selling the stuff. And we want to service
all of Collier County citizens with the right service that they deserve
in these stores. They can get watercraft, they can get their jet skis,
they can get those rentals through the people that have the permits
Page 226
June 27, 2023
that are professionals in doing that.
I think this whole thing -- we own this. We own this through
that email that we heard today, and we have to try to fix it up here the
best we can just to be transparent.
So I think -- I think the best way it goes -- this is -- what we
looking for is a vendor to run our stores. And if BluWater w
be that person, they have that contract in hand already with he
watercraft. If that's not what their intentions were, thei 0
motive -- because I come from a business where ther . e, motive.
You look for motive, why people do things. If th V
their motive
and they walk away, then maybe we will find e 7-Eleven
runner, person, operator, or whatever you wan o ca 1 them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And hqrtSs the thing about
BluWater. If they keep the stores, if s to that, she can do
the same thing Glenn's doing and t or whatever, but, you
know, she owns the stores but can ti do things outside of the stores.
But I agree with Commi Kowal; this whole thing was
about having stores that rything from Twinkies to shrimp to
bait to ice, and that's the b hing. All the other stuff, we already
have plenty of vendors that do that. And when Caxambas opens,
there's going to be a barrage of businesses, or maybe not -- depending
on what the City of*Varco decides -- but at some of our other places.
That's never been sort of the missing piece. It's replacing the store
owner.
So I tank what we tell BluWater is we're only accepting the
store part, all watercraft excluded. It doesn't mean she can't do
watercraft with a separate permit, like Glenn does on a regular basis,
and everybody else. But the brick -and -mortar is the
brick -and -mortar. And then if she says, oh, it's all or nothing, then
we've got to go out for bids. And I think, actually, the watercraft
should be excluded. I think it's -- so I don't know -- I don't know
Page 227
June 27, 2023
what the count was up here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 4-1.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, actually, I think that's step
two. I don't know that has to be decided right now. I think we
should take this in smaller chunks and go back to BluWater and if
she wants to keep the store contract. ztsl
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir. Will do. 'V
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saund 10
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm going to raw my
motion, because I've forgotten what it was, and to ommissioner
Kowal and ask him to make the motion, beca t e said was
spot on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Don't he angers, though.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: J alian.
Yeah, I think -- this is what king for. We're looking
for a vendor, and I think that the :Z�Its of Collier County and the
people that use our parks dese at. It needs to go to her and say,
listen, this is where we'r, your bid to have if you want it, run
the stores, run the best --Nimay be the best person in the world to run
the store.
So the mot' is we just give her the offer to -- right of refusal,
remove the w cr , and then when we have to re -put it out, if she
doesn't accept , it's only for a vendor to run the retail portions and
fuel sales Athtse stores that we own.
ISSIONER HALL: I second it.
MISSIONER McDANIEL: With a minimum -- if we do
re * , lt has to be the minimum --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, yeah, and it has to -- and we
have to put it out there. This is what we're looking for, a minimum
in the contractual agreements for percentages to and from the vendor
to the County, those numbers included.
Page 228
June 27, 2023
MR. KLATZKOW: And if the vendor agrees to omit it, then
the County Attorney's authorized to sign the agreement?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes. And if not, let us know
immediately that BluWater has not accepted the deal and we're,
know, going to go back out.
And, you know, it is a lucrative contract. It's not just tore
selling Twinkies. It's fuel, it's -- you know, yeah, the p i comes
to us, but it's a big operation. I mean, the watercraft 't think is
her cash cow. It's the stores, I would think, but I be wrong.
But -- okay. So I have a motion and a s n a --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't p at it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm so
COMMISSIONER McDANIE�: n't repeat it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HAL ye.
COMMISSIONER EL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCA RO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIR LoCASTRO: Opposed?
9MMISSIONER
.)
CHN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
RD S : Thank you.
N LoCASTRO: Bring me the head of Carlos.
McDANIEL: Don't repeat it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm Italian, too.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15,
staff and commission general communications.
Page 229
June 27, 2023
Item # 15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMM E S
IN THIS MEETING A
MS. PATTERSON: 15A is public comments on e l topics
not on the current or future agenda by individuals no dy heard
during previous public comment in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
Item #15B1
4TH OF JULY FIREWORKS UP -COUNTY LOCATION IS
PARADISE COAST SPORTS C EX WITH FREE PARKING,
GATES OPEN AT 11 AM. TWILL BE 8 FOOD TRUCKS &
CONCESSIONS, FAMI�-jYQI"IVITIES BEGIN AT 3:00 PM.
THE MOVIE WILL BE SVDLOT BEGINNING AT 6:30 PM.
LIVE BAND BEGINS AT �7 00 PM AND THE FIREWORKS
STARTING ATf�M ALSO, SOUTH MARCO BEACH
FIREWORK,T'A�I'ING AT 9 PM WITH FREE PARKING AT
TIGER TAIL EACH STARTING AT 6 PM
TERSON: All right. That brings us to 15B, staff
proj dates. First we have an update on the 4th of July
fir ks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. HANRAHAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. James
Hanrahan, regional manager of Parks and Recreation, alongside with
Paul Beirnes and Marissa Baker.
Page 230
June 27, 2023
We wanted to just give you an update on the 4th of July. In
honor of the Centennial celebration, we wanted to partner with the
City of Naples and put on a wonderful event both for the City and the
County. I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but the city decided to
focus on the parade because the pier is still down as well as a lot
the beach access for the City of Naples. �+
So this provided us a wonderful opportunity to partner4
Paradise Coast Sports Complex, Sports Facilities, Touri nd Parks
and Recreation.
So for the 4th of July, on the screen there yo ' at the
Paradise Coast Sports Complex where the fir r i 1 take off.
People will be able to view it from the stadium e ting, the great
lawn, and the Cove.
The facility will open -- the Cove n at 11:00 a.m. with
family activities beginning at 3:OOAp. hich includes face painting,
RC -- you know, the RC motor vel�es that you can run through the
courses, sorry, as well as facffela
g, live art. At 6:30 we'll have a
movie on the JumboTro live band beginning at
7:00 p.m.
CHAIRMAN LoC�S RO: What's the movie, just so we know
that it's nothing °�troversial that we're going to hear? What is it?
MR. H IIAN: Absolutely. It's Sandlot.
CHAI LoCASTRO: Okay. Perfect.
MR. HAN: There were -- we did a lot of research to
mak at it was something very appropriate for the entire
fa
AIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wanted to know.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Born on the 4th of July.
MR. HANRAHAN: No, and definitely not Independence Day.
That one was mentioned as well.
Like I said, with the fireworks beginning at 9:00 p.m. I do want
Page 231
June 27, 2023
to thank Zambelli, who we have back after -- we haven't had them for
the last two years. They have been phenomenal in working with us
to make sure this is a success.
They -- like I said, after the hiatus of two years, they know
Collier County. They love coming to Collier County, so they're
really excited to work with us for the fireworks.
The Cove will be open, as I mentioned, from 11:00 a.iT . e
will have at least eight food trucks. Also within the stade, on the
back side of the stadium, the concession areas will be o en as well
with satellite options for beverages and food.
I'm going to pass it over to Paul to talk a t arketing
program.
MR. BEIRNES: Good afternoon. Ar the record, Paul
Beirnes, division director of Tourism.
Just really briefly, we're going t6,gN word out and drive people
to the sports complex. We've alr d kicked off some paid social
Facebook posts and paid sear .
Actually, starting to on WAVV FM, WINK FM, Latino
97.7, and Gator Country, be 30-second live reads that will run
right through until July 4th, actually. Naples Daily News, starting
tomorrow, thereAl be a ribbon along the bottom of the front page as
well as a sky�rper that every day will have a slightly different
message.
4m Deficarpooling is going to be really encouraged. So as
we g c to it, we'll be amping that up.
hen we have a digital mobile truck which is kind of a box
tru ith large panel LED screens. Not only will -- in the couple
days prior will we have that in the community, it will actually be part
of the Naples 4th of July parade. So it will be an obvious one telling
everybody to join us later on that day.
So that's what it looks like there on the right, and on the
Page 232
June 27, 2023
left-hand side in the color where it says "beach" is the panel. We'll
have that running all the way through until Monday of next week.
And, actually, we've got this event on calendars. In fact, at 3:00
and 6:00 on WINK News, they're running a segment that I was
interviewed yesterday. We've got pages on our website, emails
going out, so a good amount of communication. I think James had
some wrap-up as well.
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely. I just wanted t mention
that the City of Marco Island would have their firew well.
Parks and Recreation will have staff, both the par rs and
maintenance, to attend to the Tigertail Beach a a ditional
parking, and that will be free to the communit
And, lastly, we hope to see you all t at Paradise Coast Sports
Complex to honor America and the .4t . Thank you all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: y thing I was going to
add -- because I've seen a lot of so 'a media things, but on a lot of it,
it doesn't clarify free parking ports complex. And the
majority of events we've rheportscomplex, be it lacrosse, the
football, and all these oth ineople are used to the concerts,
parking was not free. o
So I just -- st -- you know, would just add that, you know,
because som op equate the sports complex with not -free
parking, b t fo is event, you know, it being free.
And t o the county -- and I talked with Mr. Rodriguez about
this - 5th, none of us want to be getting calls saying garbage
c e 11 overflowing all over the beach, Tigertail Beach's garbage
ca ere overflowing, the sports complex is trashed, and all of that.
So let's make sure that, you know, we start strongly and finish
strong. And we have had some disjointed events before where they
were amazing, wonderful events except at 7:00 the next morning
when you woke up. Then all of our phones were ringing off the
Page 233
June 27, 2023
hook that, you know, the places were trashed and people left behind a
lot of garbage and everything. I mean, let's have this be successful
from start to finish.
But the free parking, got to really make sure you hammer that
home because there's a lot of people that still aren't familiar with e
sports complex.
What I think the genius of this whole thing is, is we're g to
introduce the sports complex to a lot of people that hav r been
there that are going to find it, go to the fireworks, ev g's free,
and then they're going to realize that this is a great event.
And, you know, I'll just end it by saying n en
Commissioner McDaniel's lit up here -- aweso e o pivoting. And,
you know, my hat's off, really, to the Cou eah, we always had
something at Sugden Park, but not tp t itude. And, you
know, granted, the City's under so enges now, but, you know,
we could have taken the easy wad u and just said, you know, we're
going to do what we always
forward, and now, you k1,04
!rI saw everybody really leaning
see the results here.
So, you know, I thinNat you all really are to be commended.
But, you know, let' moe sure it is an event that we're all proud of
and, you know, finish as strong as we start.
Commis,'wier cDaniel.
COMMIS ONER McDANIEL: You made a comment. Is
parking ev47ft6rged for at Paradise Coast?
Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
re 1�farissa Baker, sports complex manager for Collier County.
ey have -- the operator has charged for parking in the past.
They don't do it at every event because every event is negotiated on a
situation -by -situation basis, but I do understand how that perception
could be there because sometimes it is and sometimes it is not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL:
Page 234
Well, I would like to know
June 27, 2023
an accounting of that, how the revenue stream goes, because we're
paying for all of the maintenance and the upkeep and so on and so
forth, and I'd like to know -- I'd like to see -- I didn't realize ever that
there was parking fees charged at our public park. So I'd like to see
that sooner than later.
MS. BAKER: Will do. �v
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. HANRAHAN: Chair, to your point, the mai ce team
for Parks and Recreation, they've been awesome. W ' obilizing
from all of our regions, and they will stay until the ' done that
night. It actually says in the email, until, unt' le o I did want
to let you know that we have thought about tha .
And one other thing you mentioned, iio want to thank -- as
you're right, we pivoted. It's Waste. ent, Emergency
Management, Parks and Recreati sheriff, as well as EMS all
coming together. We actually ha meeting this Thursday to make
sure that we're ready. So it h n a wonderful effort between all
of the divisions, all of th ments for the County.
CHAIRMAN LoCA O: I know there will be plenty of
garbage cans and whatipt at the sports complex, because we're set up
that way, and yo ight need some additional ones if we're going to
have a bigger r w ere. But are we beefing up garbage cans at
Tigertail a d a y places along Marco, like South Beach, which
falls under ounty, and other places where we might -- where
weir e ly going to get a bigger crowd?
pause you can see the fireworks on Marco from anywhere,
an have some county locations that will get a larger
concentration of people which also means that's where they're going
to dump their, you know, drink bottles, their whatever, you know,
their food things, and those cans fill up quick on the 4th of July.
So are we adding extra garbage cans at South Beach, Tigertail,
Page 235
June 27, 2023
and some of the other key areas that are owned by the County?
Because I actually sent a note to the City, you know, and reminded
them of the same thing, because they have some ownership of some
pails. Have we done -- we're doing that?
MR. HANRAHAN: I will work with Olema and Rick Gar
superintendent of maintenance, to make sure -- to ensure you �+
request.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Please make e f that,
because we've not had that happen on a couple occasnd we got
bit, but -- what have you got, Tanya?
MS. WILLIAMS: For the record, Tany i ms, Public
Services department head.
To answer your question specifically ommissioner LoCastro,
Rick Garby and his maintenance team ffed up the holiday
weekend, Tigertail included, to inc dicated staff for those
beach access areas.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST kay.
MS. WILLIAMS: e garbage cans will be
continuously emptied. will be picked up --
CHAIRMAN LoC,OKS RO: Okay.
MS. WILLIAMS: -- from sunup to sundown.
CHAI LyoCASTRO: Okay. Thanks.
I don' see ybody lit up. Thank you for the update.
Next?
I
COMMERCIAL VENDOR PERMITS - THE 2024 COMMERCIAL
LAUNCH PERMIT POLICY HAS BEEN UPDATED AND
READY TO GO, COMMERCIAL PERMITS ARE NON-
TRANSFERABLE; AND ISSUED FOR ONE YEAR ONLY.
Page 236
June 27, 2023
FURTHER RESEARCH AND DISCUSSION ON POLICY WILL
BE NEEDED FOR A FUTURE MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, Item 15132 is an update
on commercial vendor permits.
Mr. Mike Ossorio is on his way up. �+
MR. OSSORIO: Good afternoon, Commissioners. rSb he
record, Mike Ossorio, Beach and Water. 0
Today we're going to talk about permits. As to arking, we
continue to enforce and evaluate parking, and most ly, we
actually look for the trailer parking. So we h -time -- we have
full-time code enforcement park rangers out th e o educate/promote
compliance as relates to trailer parking.
We have received some complai mmercial trailer
parking, notably over the holiday week d. We continue to engage
our stakeholders and our notable CO oloskee as relates to limited
vendor parking as well.
As of today, 2023 p rSolAd is 61,500. Each permit, the first
permit's 250, the second o e is 350, and the fourth and third is 450.
And you can see it breaks down to a total number of permits of 212.
Upcoming 2024 launch permits, this year, actually last month,
we actually r$1iten
hS'whole application for the commercial launch
permits, a d updated to include checklists for upcoming
2024 launts.
Nx�xnch permits, policy has been updated and ready for
i for our 2024.
xty-four out of the 124 commercial launch companies have
been grandfather status for the 2024. If you remember back in
November of 2021, there was a perpetuity requirement as if anyone
had a license or a permit in 2021, they would be grandfathered in
going forward as long as they kept their business open and up to date.
Page 237
June 27, 2023
As of right now, we have 64 of those companies that have
continued their business since 2021. So there are 60 new businesses.
Out of the 64 grandfathered companies, they have a total of 90
outstanding permits. So we actually started with 180 in 2021, and
then that went down to 90. So there are 90 grandfathered or
perpetuity permits out there that have continued since 2021 tha�►+
are -- that have the license or will get their license for next 20�
season. That leaves 212 permits in total. 0
There's 122 permits out there that are on a first first
served basis. So in terms of essence is that for th ming season,
we have 212 permits, 90 that are guaranteed t� e a ,and that
leaves 122 permits out there that could be issu or first come, first
served basis for next year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But suming that 212 is a
good number. It's not an excessii er? You know, we've had
this conversation before where we e like, is it 180? Is it 190?
Well, let's just keep selling th u il, you know, we think that the
seams are busting.
So is 212 -- it's the n er we have now, and that's the number
we're going to -- we're going to max out on in 2024, at least that's
your proposal. a don't -- you think that's a manageable number?
MR. OS I : No actually, if you look at the screen, you can
see the public mercial parking spaces. If you're talking about
permits yoalk about one permit, one trailer, one parking space.
�&ItAN LoCASTRO: Right.
---O�R. OSSORIO: And so if you actually take a look at the boat
tra Section 384, if you actually carried over 212, you're looking at
55 percent. If you had all the boat permits launched out there, they
would take 55 percent of the parking itself.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Parking.
MR. OSSORIO: So I get why we had to do 180, because we
Page 238
June 27, 2023
had to accommodate the people that already had one in 2021, but
from my own sense of where we need to be, it's between 90 and 212.
So 90 is something we should be -- guarantee the perpetuity people
that had one in 2021, but if you're -- if you are looking at my -- for
going forward, I would like to reduce that number of 55 percent
down to something manageable of 20, 25 percent, between 90
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So why aren't we doing tl t en,
for 2024? Why are we proposing 212? Is that what y ' e
proposing?
MR. OSSORIO: No. My thought is to onl you updated
status. Right now we're at 212. It's really di e Consider this
as a resolution. You can -- you can dictate ho any permits --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When 1 we do that? When will
we decide what 2024, the magic numb o rmits is going to be?
It's not right now. You're just gi n update on how the
numbers look right now. But are o going to be coming -- or
somebody's going to be comi o is committee like they did last
year and give us a prop o w many permits? Because you're
prepared to sell permits in cember. So between now and
December, we want to jecide how many we want to sell, and I
thought the nu was going to be less than 212 because we didn't
think we cou 11 support 212 is some of the conversations I recall
in here pr iou
MR. RIO: My recollection is that in 2021, in November,
you with 180, and then you came back -- the Parks
d t came back in February and said, hey, we need 212. So I
do ' ow how you amend the fee resolution. I think in terms of
when you amend the resolution to include that particular number, that
would be the day that we actually do it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Because we understand the
90, the grandfathered 90, but, you know, the higher number from 90
Page 239
June 27, 2023
to what? You know, that delta in the middle, I thought 212 was a
little bit too high on the generous side from previous conversations
that we had, you know.
MR. OSSORIO: You're absolutely right, Commissioner. And
you can actually take a look at the -- the chart in front of you, the 's
384 but, as of today, Caxambas, 54 is closed. �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. OSSORIO: So that's done. And then if you at the
boat ramp for 951, there's rumors or there's speculati t that
might be closing, too, as well to go ahead and wor at boat ramp
as well. So that's 72.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, becau e at's the thought I
had in the back of my head is that if we s 1 th maximum number
starting in December, or we started jo se'ii�, aximum number,
we've got to remember that we've e serious damage in some
marinas that are going to be clos extended periods of time. So
if all those permits are out the two major marinas are closed,
maybe indefinitely, beca ej ave major seawall damage and
whatnot, the people with ose permits are going want to go
elsewhere, and we are going to -- you know, we're going to have
created a seriou oblem.
MR. OS I . Yeah. So at the end of the day, I would think
that, for me as Beach and Water who's going to be overseeing this
with our par�'dngers, that we should go by percentage. Percentage
equal
30�arkitig spaces, and I would think 55 is way too
- 55 percent. So if you're looking at a percentage as 20,
ent, then that would come up with a number where you need
to be.
But I think Tanya has a question about the fee resolution as well.
MS. WILLIAMS: For the record, Tanya Williams, Public
Services department head.
Page 240
June 27, 2023
Chairman, to answer your original question, park staff are
currently revising our fee -- Parks fee policy, and this will be
something that we'll bring back to you late September, first of
October.
Staff are also -- now that we have Mike Ossorio on board w
*Isl
us, Parks administration is also looking at what may be that g l�
number. 212 is a large number. We do have 90 that are
grandfathered in that will carry over. O
So we're going to be bringing back some recomrlot tions as
part of our fee policy to you where we would like ossibly identify
the types of commercial activities at specific 1 c ites. And we'll
bring back some recommendations and some old for you to
provide us direction.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yea uld just say that for
2024, we might want to consider 2 Tally lower number than
normal because we're going to h me significant marinas closed.
MS. WILLIAMS: Corr
CHAIRMAN LoC So although the number might
seem excessively low too 'ders, it might just be for 2024
because -- you know, s(ojust work that into -- you know, the
equation.
The oth t in 'll -- and then I'll go to Commissioner
McDaniel an n we have public comment. We did toss around
the idea he aving you -all flesh out a totally different permitting
proc h was permitting by specific park and not just these
g eric ones where people can go willy-nilly wherever they want.
AiVe had said a year ago that -- a year ago that wasn't the time to
do it because we had so much on the plate, and we waited too long to
sort of kick that around.
You know, as we approach 2024, make that part of your
discussion. And I know that that is a much more complicated
Page 241
June 27, 2023
process, but we might be at the point now where our marinas are all
busting at the seams, that these generic permits that allow you to just
go wherever you want doesn't really give us good oversight on who's
going where.
And then, you know, we sell 212, and then realize -- and I' Z***Y
going to just make up a number just for -- just for, you know,
sake of argument -- then we realize 80 percent of those 212 a 1
going to Caxambas or they're all going to Goodland. T Ove're
like, oh, my God, that's not what we thought was goi -- and we
got in a little bit of that -- of a problem over the la le of years
where an excessive number of these -- of thes e ' s that the
number kept increasing were really concentrate one or two
p g Y
locations and so then that's where we wer rainstorming here and
saying, why don't we figure out what t c number is for
Goodland, the magic number for as? And that's a big ask.
That's somebody having to do a I ive and run the algorithm and
figure what that is. But I me 're sitting here in June, and we're
about to sell permits in D r. Let's -- you know, I would just
highly, I mean, suggest th e work all the options into the equation.
How many public comments do we have, Mr. Miller?
MR. MILL . I have one registered comment that wants to
speak on this,Zeei, .
CHA AN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's go to the public
comment, rm en I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel, although, I'm
sorry
OSSORIO: Yeah. I just had one -- right now, actually,
it
er -- the fee resolution calls for limitations, and your director
9of Parks has that authority, and we actually were looking -- even
though if we don't come back, there's going to be some restrictions of
different locations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Page 242
June 27, 2023
MR. OSSORIO: Even though that -- you might not think the
authority does lie with the Parks department, with the director, so
limitations in there under the fee resolution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I think that's smart, and it's
not because we're trying to restrict their access, but it's so that we
know who's going where. And we might sit here and go, wo ,
know, we haven't sold very many permits for Port of the Isl , so
it's like, hey, we could sell 30 more. You know, that w t�
whole -- so what's the public comment? And then w to
Commissioner McDaniel.
MR. MILLER: Stacy, I hope I'm sayin is . h , Mullendore.
MR. MULLENDORE: That's right. Th ' pretty good.
Hi, Commissioners. Thanks for hav' me. My name is Stacy
Mullendore. I am the president of $i ist Charters of Collier
County, Inc. I am a fishing guid ears in this county, and I'm
a Naples native.
I am here because of the ermit situation. My wife and I
are looking to move on second chapter of our lives. Part of
that is looking at retireme which has led us to putting our business
up for sale. It con istsAf me being a fishing guide, which I'm going
to continue to d a part-time basis, but it also has an ecotour tour
dolphin, shel ' si tseeing boat as well that does have a permit to
pick up Er t ounty ramp and has since 2019.
So in rocess of trying to sell our business, the big hangup so
far f been, to the several people that have inquired about it,
is
,e4lNi up permit. Does it come with the boat, and is it
trdVable?
My wife has spoken to Commissioner Hall's office a couple of
times on this, and so far he's been able to tell us that, yeah, it's going
to be transferable to the end of the year, but after that I can't
guarantee anything.
Page 243
June 27, 2023
We have a serious buyer, and what I have with me here is our
petition to buy our business, and in that, in the conditions, the buyer
says that, you know, he's going to obviously obtain and assure all
applicable titles, agreements, permits, and licenses essential to the
operation of the business including, but not limited to, the Collie
County commercial launch permit are both transferable and �+
renewable to the buyer upon the purchase of my business.
So if this permit is not transferable and renewable, ically
makes my business worth zero. So that would mea my thing I
could sell would be my boat.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, that's t e ecause you
could sell him the business under the condition the apply for a
permit and he be lucky enough to get one, d t en the condition
would be, when he secured a permits t ould buy your
business.
But my understanding, becau is is big business in my
district, is that the permits hav e er been transferable. We might
have had plenty of people w were doing it, but that's why we have
all new faces here, becausNome of those previous people were
forced into retirement mho weren't running a very tight operation for
the County. I' st being -- being, you know, transparent.
Your co s merit, but the, you know, County's position
has been t ns ing permits wasn't something that was ever
allowed e ough it was done, but we've tightened it up. But
you'r -- erson buying your business could buy the business, and
it, t ent upon them being one of the people that get one of the
re ing 122 permits. And then if they can't, I mean -- I mean, I'll
defer to Mr. Ossorio.
I mean, this is something that we have debated. You know,
we've had these -- you know, it's not a large number of people. So
you sit here and say, well, make an exception. But I think we've
Page 244
June 27, 2023
only allowed transfer if it was to a family member. So if your son
wanted to buy the business, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Ossorio, I
think that's what the County has allowed. It predates me, so this isn't
something that we invented here, but...
MR. OSSORIO: I can --back in 2021, it was actually
discussed. One of the concerns was if we were going to h�_�o
perpetuity of a permit being years to come in the future, it be
the same company. And so father and son, same FIN&hzed,
b r, yes.
They couldn't get any more, but it shouldn't be com or it
shouldn't be monetized, these permits, because the its are only
good for one year, and, for the majority, it's fi c e, irst serve.
That's my thought. It's almost like a beach pe 1 s icker is only
good for one year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sao i s his business to a
stranger and they're still -- there'sS.1n
' the left on the permit, that
stranger can pick up that permit has to start from scratch, or
he can't transfer it to a strange
MR. OSSORIO: ould say if he bought the business,
he's going to get a whole FIN number. I assume that that permit
would be long and forgotten, be dead.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. OS I And you would have to go ahead and get in
line Dece ber
CHAWN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. OSSORIO: You could be the first one in line knocking on
somebody's door to try to get this application to get that permit in,
beaause right now you're at 122 today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
Okay. Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I appreciate -- I appreciate
what you had to say. One of the comments that I was going to make
Page 245
June 27, 2023
was while we're doing an analysis on this magic number of how
many permits we're going to allow and not allow, give consideration
to adjusting the permit parameters. I like the being specific with the
ramp that the commercial operators are going to be using, but also
give some parameters on the type of licensure.
Your business is not worthless. You just have to spend
money if you come to a commercial marina and pay the ren your
boat and that operator that you're doing. So for you to allee that
your business is worthless isn't absolutely correct.
Now, I have compassion for what it is that yo n fact,
saying, but our boat ramps are for the general b n t for private
business operators to utilize and take away fro r public, our
private -- or our public use.
So one of my thoughts was we.co 1 e license permits for
commercial operators, but they ha ilize offsite facilities to park
their customers and park their boa hey can come and launch
;t their boat, pick up their Gusto but the customers have to be
shuttled in. They're not tali dsp g ipace for our general public that
are our -- and I'm talking to you because you're at the podium. I
really wanted our staff 0 hear this. And I'm certainly not going to
debate with you value of your business one way or the other.
We hav -- o you -- if you don't mind, I'd like to talk to my
staff.
MR. ENDORE: Sure.
90�ZkSSIONER McDANIEL: You happen to be standing at
Vir -71 --- I
R. OSSORIO: Yes, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did he finish his time to
speak? Are you done?
MR. MULLENDORE: I had a couple other comments.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Please continue. I got drawn
Page 246
June 27, 2023
into a debate with you, and I don't want to do that.
MR. MULLENDORE: So I run my guide business out of a
marina on Goodland, Calusa Island Marina. They have a
noncompete signed with Marco Island Watersports. Nobody else in
the shelling, dolphin parasailing business can do business outi
t
marina; however, I'm a full-time fishing guide in addition to
the tour boat.
So I can guide out of there, because Marco Island to sports
doesn't offer fishing; however, my marina won't let duct my
tour boat business out of there because of their no ete.
So that led me to get my permit in 2019V
to p the eco
business, and it's been running out of the ramr since just for that
reason.
I would prefer to be in a privati ut the marinas have
pretty much waged war on all sm � ess because all the big
marinas are now owned by big c o bons. So they're trying to
thin the herd on people doing 1 ss out of their properties.
COMMISSIONER IEL: Sure.
MR. MULLENDOR So we're kind of -- you know, kind of
forced to do business oV o the ramp. I wouldn't prefer to do that,
but, I mean, it's n working for us since 2019.
I know up years ago, you -all cracked down on limiting
new perm' to ople, which didn't apply to us because we had
already ha We kind of were grandfathered in. And then I
was e impression that, you know -- and he had just
*d 60 some or 90 people were grandfathered in if you were in
prT1V 2021, which we were. But I was also under the impression
that the sticker would go with the boat. So that way it wouldn't
be -- I'll backtrack a little bit.
I had one buyer come to me and say, listen, I'm interested in
your business; however, the sticker, I don't want to be limited to six
Page 247
June 27, 2023
passengers on my boat because I'm limited to how much I can charge.
So if I can get your boat and take your boat to a 20-passenger or
30-passenger boat down the road and just transfer the sticker onto
that, that would really pique my interest into buying your business.
Well, I told him that I don't think that's a possibility knowing the
situation at the county ramps and the parking.
So he walked. Well, this gentleman -- and I operate t�4 a
six-pack tour boat business. Almost 100 percent of the o le show
up in one car for the parking.
So, anyhow, I have somebody else interested ow. I was
under the impression that the sticker would st w the boat,
especially if the boat stayed in the corporate n , and he would just
continue to run it as Bimini Twist Charte , 'us anew president. So
that's --
MR. OSSORIO: Well, the ptrt%i ctually goes with the
company. But if he's saying that %if it's a new president, it's the
same FIN number, well, then tufty will afford for this
gentleman. But most likely Osigoing to be a change in name or very
similar with a dot or a perm,, and it's going to be a totally different
company. So the erpptuity wouldn't fall for that new business
owner.
CHAIR oCASTRO: Yeah. I did, like, an analogy, and
it's a 4boad alo but when we had this conversation about a year
ago, s u know, it's like selling your car, but the person
doesur driver's license, you know. And then you change
the7on the car immediately.
the county permit that you currently own, our position had
been that it can't be used as leverage to make your business more
attractive to a buyer, that the permit is something that went
specifically to you. But on the flip side, I stand by what I said
before. You could make an agreement with somebody who's
June 27, 2023
interested in your business, but it's contingent upon them getting in
line quickly and getting their own new permit for the new business
that's using your old boat. But, you know, I mean, I think we were
pretty firm on that.
So, you know -- so to answer your question, you know,
that's -- unless, you know, our staff has a different recommen
or the commissioners here think that that's a bad precedentAl
know that that's been the County's position.
Commissioner McDaniel, did you have somethi •And then
I've got Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not f 1 I want to speak
with our staff.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. ommissioner Hall, your
question is for?
COMMISSIONER HALL: W acy, I just was -- I
just -- my understanding of you se it g your business was to sell your
business, exactly your busine
MR. MULLENDO es.
COMMISSIONER L: ABC 123 company, and you just
are assigning different Orectors or a different president, which that
would be the saNrB
o me, your permit would follow in perpetuity
with that. If Ter ever changed anything, then you're going to
be subject o Mr. Ossorio is saying.
MR. ZKOW: These permits do not last in perpetuity, all
right. that it's all right to give a vested rights to a permit, now
t ;TR,a could do that if you want to establish that, but that's not the
wais works. There's no vested right to a permit. We issue them
annualy. You could stop issuing them at any time. You can decide
only residents, no commercial. You could put them out to bid if you
want. The Board has a great deal of leeway, but to say that they're in
perpetuity, once you get one, you always get one, that's not the
Page 249
June 27, 2023
current policy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, see, his advantage is he has
one of the 90 grandfathered ones.
MR. KLATZKOW: You say "grandfathered," but there's no
ordinance that grandfathers this, okay. This is just a current po
of the Board -- �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Policy.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- that could change at any ti And
once we start making promises to people that you ca your
business with this in perpetuity, with the permit, w arting to get
into a vested rights on the permit. And we d a , ut think you're
going to need an executive summary and reall m er this one out,
if that's what you want to do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: An ber part of the
discussion was we have these 90 gtu , ered ones. As those
business owners start to retire -- rviome of them don't sell their
business; we had several that d to just, you know, stop their
business altogether -- it �l 1, pus sort of lean out that 90
number, because we want hat number to be a little bit smaller. I
mean, 90 people that automatically get a permit because they're
grandfathered i ean, it shouldn't be in perpetuity.
I would o e a ew years from now that 90 number would be
less becau e so body would retire. They didn't sell the business;
they sold t at to somebody in Virginia. Boom, the business
evap o now we're down to down 82 and then 77 and 54 and, I
ink that was what we had talked about in here is a year
'MR. OSSORIO: That's exactly what happened.
with over 180 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
MR. OSSORIO: -- 2021, or February of 2022.
Page 250
You started
You're down
June 27, 2023
to 90.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
MR. OSSORIO: So your analogy is actually correct. The
permit wasn't in perpetuity. They were just guaranteed the first ones
in line to be able to continue the company.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But if he sells his busine:4e
�he
person who buys it keeps the same name as the boat, name as
the charter and everything, they still don't get his -- one they
don't get that grandfathered permit, because it goes t gentleman
right there. It's specific to the individual, correct I
I wrong?
MR. OSSORIO: It goes to the compan t e to the
company. So if the company doesn't switch c rations as an FIN
number, it's still the company with a diffe t president, sure. He
can get in line, and he'll be the first Qn - there will be 90. I
don't want to say perpetuity, but it t andfathered-in status. Is it
the 90 that come for -- this year, 2 upcoming permit launch, what
are we doing in January or De r? We're looking at 90.
Now, out of that 90 on't come in February, we're going
to go and issue those 90, cess, whatever those number -- it might
be down to 80 or 10, w� Lever it is, we're going to give those to
people that are e waiting list. So there's 24 companies, as it sits
today, of wai to o ahead for the upcoming 2024 season.
CHAI LoCASTRO: We have some people that have the
permits and t're not in a company name. They're in their own
pers e, and so when they wind up, you know, that's not a
tr le permit.
S there's a loophole here where if everything's in the name of,
you know, Sunrise Fishing Charters, and he's going to sell that to a
guy and it's just going to have a new president, then, you know, to
me, what I'm hearing is the loophole is he actually can take that
grandfathered permit and give it to Joe Bag of Doughnuts, who's the
Page 251
June 27, 2023
new president of Sunrise Fishing Charters.
MR.OSSORIO: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But we've had -- we have quite a
few people that that's not how their permits are set up. It's
specifically by name. And, you know, me hearing that, I don't 1
that there's a loophole because, I mean, some of the other peo 1
like they were penalized because their permit was in their n and
not in the company. And they weren't the president. ere the
owner, and then that made the permit untransferable.
And a lot of those people came and complain t they
couldn't transfer their permits. But he might a to, due to a
technicality, because he put everything in a co ny name, and all's
he's doing --
COMMISSIONER HALL: STa .
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: ing -- yeah, like you say,
maybe that's not stupid, and I'm n re judging, but I'm just saying
that's where some people sai&-nd
ounty should have a smarter
process that doesn't allo of loopholes.
MR. OSSORIO: I Id say that a sole proprietorship is old
business. A lot of -- I.4on't know any companies that typically do
sole proprietorship They usually have an LLC or corporation, tax
reasons, you that with someone in licensing years ago. I mean,
there's onl a handful of licensed contractors out there that do
business u eir name, under a sole proprietorship.
the most part, I would venture to say 99.9 percent of
thesnpe its that you see today, the 212, they're all somewhat -- they
mighttay they're Mike Ossorio, but they're Mike Ossorio,
Incorporated --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So this gentleman doesn't have a
problem then. He can sell the company and transfer the permit to
the new company president. I mean, I've got Olema back there
Page 252
June 27, 2023
shaking her head going no, no, no.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, it depends how you sell the company.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So let's -- I want him to leave here
with an answer. Can he sell his company and hand the permit to the
new president of his boat?
MR. OSSORIO: No, no. �+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why not?
MR. OSSORIO: Because it's a new company. N Of --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, the guy's goin eep the
same name, and he's just a new president.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, then it's still -- OW& 1 of a new
company. New company being new FIN nu e . n other words,
he is leaving the company. I could be M' O sorio's Construction
today and Mike Ossorio's Constructo ow with a whole
different FIN number. If I'm just Ding corporations, am I
switching --
CHAIRMAN LoCAST he person that buys this
company, do they get a , or they can absorb his?
COMMISSIONER L: No, it has to be the same number.
MR. OSSORIO: Kyou are just adding a vice president or a
treasury, no, tha ' 'ust --that is a -- or he can even name change, but
the real key i number. If he's selling his business, and the
new busin s/c pany comes in, it very well might -- he's buying the
name. HeNygr and open up on the Sunbiz under a difference
core ame, and that is a whole new company. So, no, that
wyc%Nprohibited, and for very good reason.
�N�AIRMAN LoCASTRO: The guy comes in, and he just
becomes -- you know, before the business is sold, he takes on a
partner, makes him the vice president, then he and wife retire. The
new vice president becomes the president. FIN number's the same,
company's the same.
Page 253
June 27, 2023
Now the new owner of this boat with, what, a brand-new
company isn't waiting in line for anything. He's one of the 90
grandfathered people because he bought a company from somebody
that had one of the 90 grandfathered permits. I mean, I think that's a
foul but, it's, you know -- and it's not his -- I'm not saying he's
breaking any rules or anything, but that's where I think our pr is
weak, because I have -- I hear from people who maybe were' tat
astute to sort of put it in an LLC or whatever, and they Oxed out,
and, you know, when they -- when they sell their boaFnicality
new
person is back to square zero, and they feel like it' and
that it's a technicality that's a weakness in our on r permitting
selling process.
And because of -- because he is able maybe transfer the
permit, it's our county permit that mik 1 mpany very valuable
to sell because he can say, buy m ny, and you don't have to
wait in line for the 122 permits. o e grandfathered, you know.
It's like -- you know, you can ' 'n the boat, and it's like you're me.
MR. KLATZKOW: s no right to the permit.
CHAIRMAN LoCA TRO: What's that?
MR. KLATZKOV; There's no right to the permit.
CHAIRM oCASTRO: He's saying there is if these --
(Simult e us osstalk.)
MR A
NKOW: There's no right to the permit. I mean, we
issue them ne year, and that's it, all right. They're
nontr le. Look, this is a county park. I mean, somehow
w lved this and to allow commercial operations in it.
AIRMAN LoCASTRO: The 90 grandfathered people get it
for a year, but they get it automatically the next -- in 2024.
MR. KLATZKOW: If the Board wants to set that as policy --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I mean, that's what I thought
I saw in the slides here. We have 90 --
Page 254
June 27, 2023
MR. KLATZKOW: Right now you are creating a vested
interest in his business. We're talking a lot of money here, all right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. KLATZKOW: And what I'm telling you is that's not how
we currently set up these permits. If you want to set up these
permits to give value to the businesses, that's your prerogative, �►+
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We don't want to do that.
MR. KLATZKOW: But telling him he can sell hi ®u iness
and transfer the permit, and it will be grandfathered i tes a
vested right. You just created a tremendous valu ese permits --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, and th ' n at we want
to --
MR. KLATZKOW: -- that we just , w at, like $150 for?
MS. WILLIAMS: Two hundred Y.
MR. KLATZKOW: All rig y're worth tens of
thousands of dollars with that vet 'ght.
MS. WILLIAMS: As it tly stands, just for simplicity and
clarification -- for the re nya Williams, Public Services
department head.
When an applicant epplies for a commercial launch permit, the
application itselk S14ktes: Launch permits are nontransferable, period.
That launch it good until the end of the calendar year.
Now,i
ha e ran into back in 2021 when we had a multitude of
people in c ers regarding access to commercial launch permits
and t hat we had more demand than we had space to allow,
the'a grandfathering in was brought into record. And at this
pov time, you do have 90 permits that are grandfathered in.
They're still not transferable. They have until the end of the year.
They do get first in line to get those 90 permits renewed. But as the
language in Parks policy and the application stands, it says that
permits are nontransferable, and that's the way your Park staff have
Page 255
June 27, 2023
been operating.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But the 90 people get first priority
in perpetuity, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
MS. WILLIAMS: No.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. This board, at any time, can d4;
that we're going to do away with the permits or we're goin to xeduce
them in half or we're going to double them. It's Board gative.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But for right now, the people in
December of -- at the end of this year will be -- wi e priority
before we start selling permits to everybody e e t?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, until -- unles tween now and
then we change that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: .I e uestion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO:d 'ssioner McDaniel is lit up,
but he's over here -- he's got a he c �c e, I could tell.
COMMISSIONER McD L: Yeah, he's got a headache
because we're having a pub aring on a subject that isn't open for
a public hearing. We alloyd a public comment on a circumstance,
and we don't need o be debating this right now. This is a -- this is a
report from staf 'th regard to our launch permits, and we're -- the
interweb is flyng w -- with accolades, so that's what I'm over here
o
trying to oniNwhat we --
CHAI1rvVAN LoCASTRO: Well, I don't let the web decide -- I
don'tkebnth decide this meeting. I think that the detail --
MISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not suggesting that the
we deciding this meeting, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The details that have been brought
up here to give us information, I personally feel, have been a little bit
confusing, and that's why we're all having discussion here. If we
want to take the slides on face value and, you know, have a debate
Page 256
June 27, 2023
later -- I don't think we were debating. I think there were some
things on the slides here that were confusing to this commissioner.
It sounded like possibly confusing a couple of others. I'm not
monitoring social media right now to determine how to direct this
magnet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I wasn't monitoring s i
media right now. What I was doing was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. O
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- objecting t fact that
we're having a discussion about something -- we s 't have a
public hearing on this, because the last time to d alking about
this, we -- the operator community was in abso t uproar. And
there are -- there's no argument that we're a s ort on public
facilities for commercial operators and are looking to wean
away from commercial operators 'l our public facilities.
There's no -- you and I are in com e concert with that.
One of -- and that, again one of the suggestions that I was
thinking about was chan limiting the capacities of the
commercial operators tha our public facilities so that we have the
greatest -- because k thick t e general consensus is, is our public
ramps are suppose to be for the public and not value added to
commercial gVerato and the like.
CHA N LoCASTRO: I don't think we're having a public
meetinw ommissioners are questioning the staff that are here
brief This gentleman, you know, got a chance to make some
pubM*c ment and then has sat down.
SAt I think the majority of our exchange here has been with
Mr. Ossorio, with Olema, with Tanya, so I don't look at that as a
public forum.
But I don't see anybody else lit up here. I think we've given
quite a few questions and maybe homework assignments based on
Page 257
June 27, 2023
your informational briefing to us that has caused me, you know, some
concerns just looking at the numbers and hearing some of the
answers to some of the questions.
So, obviously, this was an informational exchange, and I think
what it has shown us is that before we start selling permits in
December, we better start talking about this a little bit, and w 'fogot
to make sure that there's not loopholes that certain people, now,
are exchanging permits, possibly, without our knowled r ithout
our approval. So I mean I think that was -- that was ct clear
pp p Y
that there's some unanswered questions here.
And this commissioner's got a concern t t 1 might not
be that magic golden number, especially when, n h next 12 months,
two major marinas could be closed for al t maybe a year, so, you
know... 0 �V
MS. PATTERSON: Comm' s, we'll return back to you
well before the December date wi rst of all, some answers to
these questions and, second o commendations as well as
getting your input. Tha,e can bring this at the appropriate
time, at a regular board meeting based on this conversation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anybody else?
Commissioner aniel's got a question about his road. No, I'm
just kidding. a ad.
CO I NER McDANIEL: Do you want to start on that
a4tM
ain?
AN LoCASTRO: Do you own a grader? Did I hear
thead, sir.
M ISSIONERER McDANIEL: I've got a picture of me on
my grader, so be careful.
I just want to make the point again. I said it once before, but
that man was standing at the podium. Give us a report on
alternatives for licensure for these businesses.
Page 258
June 27, 2023
MS. EDWARDS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Again, a business owner
shouldn't -- couldn't be -- shouldn't be penalized just because they're a
sole proprietor instead of an LLC because everybody's gone to an
LLC, but give us some alternatives for categories of licensure --
MS. EDWARDS: Okay. �+
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- so that an operatof�ho has
an ecotour business can launch his boat, pick up customers, but
they've got to -- they can't take up public access except for that five
minutes that he's dumping -- putting his -- not -- e me -- that
he's launching his boat and then going forwar w is other things.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: O y.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: VYh nt, Olema, is
consistency, you know, and no a so, you know, it's crystal
clear so...
MS. EDWARDS: Abs o I agree.
Item #15B3
I
CELL SERVICE�T*OWER UPDATE - STAFF HAS A MEETING
WITH VERI ON JUNE 29TH TO REVIEW THE STATUS,
HOPING O T THE PLAN IN FRONT OF DSAC
SUBCOM EE IN AUGUST, FULL DSAC COMMITTEE IN
SEPTE AND TAKE IT TO CCPC IN OCTOBER/
NOV ER AND THEN IN FRONT OF THE BOARD IN
DECEMBER/JANUARY. STAFF WILL COME BACK IN TWO
WETKS WITH AN UPDATE ON THE MEETINGS
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We were at 15B3?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
Page 259
June 27, 2023
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I asked for this. I know all the
commissioners here had gotten a presentation from Verizon, and my
takeaway from Verizon was a real positive one, but they sort of left
me with the impression that they've been working closely with the
county staff, but maybe things aren't moving along as quickly as
possible, so -- had some concerns, and that's putting it mildly.
But what I said to the County Manager was, I think it �t be
beneficial to all of us to hear from the county staff and s -Qr to
rumor from fact but also, too, to figure out maybe a ggressive
trajectory or to hear that we actually do have one.
And so, Mr. Bosi, give us the overview oing on with
our discussions with cell phone towers and cel one carries.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, Chair. Mi Bosi, Planning and
Zoning director. S ;Ic?
May 1 Oth, Verizon came and ' ke each one of the
commissioners, had a conversati o met with staff initially. We
coordinated a meeting on Ma with Verizon, went over their
initial draft, had a numb stions that we sent to them, they sent
us back. We worked wit r consultant that we have on board with
AB&B to incorporate those questions and those responses to those
questions to our proposed draft.
We are e tin$ tomorrow with our consultants as well. We're
going to h ve ther working session, and on Thursday we will have
a -- we hav eeting at 10:00 scheduled with Verizon to review
wher t and the status, and then we're going to give them
w re going from here.
course, what we know is after we get done with our draft, we
have to take it to the DSAC subcommittee, we have to take it to
DSAC, we have to take it to the Planning Commission, and then we
can take it to the Board of County Commissioners.
So we are moving along. Like I said, it's perfect timing. We
Page 260
June 27, 2023
have a working session tomorrow. We have a meeting with Verizon
on Thursday. From there, we're going to wrap it up, I would
anticipate, with the DSAC subcommittee. They don't meet in July.
So sometime in August, we could schedule that meeting, full DSAC,
in September; Planning Commission, October and November;
hopefully, December or January, we could be before the Boar
County Commissioners with the updated telecommunicatio ection.
And just a -- just a little quirk note, Verizon has -- Zy are
vertical real estate customers. Tower companies, A n Tower
SBA, Crown, those are the entities that build towe Verizon has
a lot of in-depth knowledge and communicateWt
them. They've
reviewed peer reviewed in terms of you kno best ractices
�p �Y p
within the State of Florida.
We went out, we've tested those, 'v oked at what they've
provided. We think it's a good pr t. We think it's going to be
something that's going to provid li e We
better ease of use for the
users and hopefully provide b overage, because we know that
these -- these are essenti es. These provide direct e911
communications, and we d to have -- we need to have the most
robust wireless communication systems that we have.
And the co icating factor is, there's four individual
carriers -- fo do al carriers that are out there and their
subcarrier one of those have to have the same arrangements
and locatio d towers. Not each of them are equal as well. So
there' f different variances that go in.
hat we're trying to do is provide a telecommunications
se ?so7fthe
t's permissive to the industry but also respective of the
rigproperty owners and surrounding -- surrounding
property owners so there's only -- the towers are permitted up to a
certain right. Once they get -- a certain height. Once they get past
those certain heights, that's when a public -hearing process would
Page 261
June 27, 2023
come in and people would have opportunities to weigh in. And
that's a balancing act that we're trying to strike the right chord to.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And this has been
going on longer than May. Now, I'm assuming your recent
meetings, the May you're talking about was last month's May �v
correct?
MR. BOSI: Yes. Yes, sir. O
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So -- 9he
frustration that you heard, Commissioner LoCastr , Verizon
was the same frustration that I had been expr *n , n it travels all
the way back to when the WAVV tower peopl w re here in front of
us and hadn't been putting the necessary i astructure in, and I
learned that day that we have a code. t ritten in 1996 -- is
that what my memory serves me s?
MR. KLATZKOW: It goe a forever, yes.
COMMISSIONER McD L: Right. It goes back to
forever. And the code t urrently have requires new cell
tower builders to go get p ission from the other cell towers that are
here in order to construct a tower even within the zoning parameters
that we have all d.
MR. BO at's -- yes, that's called collocation requirements.
And you nt Jurisdictions want to have collocation requirements
because co ion requirements minimizes the visual intrusions that
addi ' ers will have. So there's a balance to it.
MISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and the other balance
is t f balance because you've typified the cell service as an
essential service, and it's not designated as an essential service,
though it is utilized as such.
MR. BOSI: Our Land Development Code recognizes
telecommunication towers that provide e911, which they all do, as
Page 262
June 27, 2023
essential services. So our LDC recognizes them. We just don't
permit them by right anywhere. There's restrictions to them, and
that's the complicated nature of it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One of the complicating
natures of it.
And so the frustration that comes up is that we don't hav n.
We have an antiquated code. We don't have a plan to prov for
necessary cell service for our community. Again, we'v aproperty
rights, and we've got visual intrusions and so ons an rth. So
the frustrations get piled on top of, because when hit the
button, they want that thing to go, and they d ' t to be
constrained by a bandwidth. They don't want o e constrained by
necessarily anything. They want that to go. And so that's
our -- that's our frustration.
MR. BOSI: And one other t thi t the State Legislature has
done, in the right-of-way, they are - ey are permitted to locate
within the built environment ly a permit. No public hearing,
things like that. The thi ose cells are somewhat limited.
They're not as -- the radiu n't as effective as a full-scale
telecommunication tower, so that's a little bit more costly strategy.
So we're t ' to find the right balance. We're trying to find
the right bala be een what's the height that could be permitted
where it c g - where it goes without a public hearing, what's the
height that s a public hearing.
ple -- and one of the things that's a little bit frustrating
is pointed out that an area near Camp Keais Road and Oil
Well Road, that they were having problems with -- problems with
coverage. And I questioned them why that was, because in their
agricultural zoning district, a tower up to 250 feet is permitted by
right. They would just need an SDP. They just need a property
owner that's going to lease them a 100-by-100 space for that tower to
Page 263
June 27, 2023
go there. So some of the issues that they've identified wasn't with
our code. It was with an inability to find a right collocation spot.
But we are working with them. Like I said, we're meeting
tomorrow. We have a meeting on Thursday. We're going to
advance this forward, and we're going to bring an updated
telecommunication section for the Board to ultimately consid
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One thing -- one of uick
question. How are they coming with the PUDA on Or e ee, the
wastewater/water facility?
Oh, he looks at you, Mr. French. Yes, er
Jami h, for the
record.
MR. FRENCH: Good evening,Commis;o .
I'm not going to be like Mike Ossori nd say, What we're going
to talk about is the Orangetree PUD.a t, but I guess I just
said it. But Jamie French, for the �r .
Commissioner, I spoke with e endor today. They happened
to be in front of you, Mr. Mul They'll be -- they have not
submitted yet. They'll b ' ting in the next few weeks for the
amendment to the PUDA. he difference with this one is that when
Orangetree was createdothis activity was prohibited.
COMMISS ER McDANIEL: Specifically. That's why we
decided we n ed do the amendment a year ago.
MR. R H: Right. They've been on board, sir.
Sol-- e working at the speed of the industry, if we
thoug - e thought the government worked slow...
o theless, I did speak with Ellen Summers today from that
firm, a d she said she's nearly ready to submit, and she'll be
submitting in the next few weeks.
There will be a public hearing as well as a neighborhood
information meeting that would be required because it is an
amendment to the PUD. So as soon as we get that in, we understand
Page 264
June 27, 2023
the importance of that, especially for that community.
I've also got a -- so hopefully I've answered your question.
I also have a meeting this Friday with Comcast. As it turns out,
that small antiquated tower that sits on our golf course site, that's
actually owned by Comcast, and there is a tower on there. So w ' e
leaning forward with some of these tower owners, for those t y
have leases with the County or perhaps those that we know
smaller towers that maybe -- we're starting to see that e ent
disappear.
We have an inspection report, as many of yo be aware.
We became more in line with the State overt a e years on
their tower inspections. They have a radio en n er or a tower
engineer that certifies their tower. It wa ery three years. We've
extended that to every five. So as , e' g to note some of this
equipment leave or some of these r of -- we're not seeing them
to as effective or perhaps they're s a er, we want to start that
conversation with them becau n -- I can tell you, driving
through the Estates, liviere, we affectionately refer to some
areas as the no -phone zone,,, and we know that they do exist.
COMMISSIONEF..#McDANIEL: And, you know, there again,
you and I -- we a hearing on this a year or so ago. You came
through with, st o government -owned properties and that sort of
thing, but e �� -- there was -- the left hand wasn't talking to the
right with t llocation language that's in our LDC and those sort
of th'
*'ose -- you know, you had actually produced -- both of you
pr ed a list of properties that were what I designated as the
low- anguage hanging fruit that could be -- that could be utilized by
these tower companies. But I don't know that we've actually
effectuated the LDC amendments to allow for that permitting process
• :•
Page 265
June 27, 2023
MR. FRENCH: And that's part of what we're doing now, and I
would tell you that with Mr. Finn's guidance, leadership, and
assistance, we're going to look at all of the county properties. But
that's on -- that's certainly on his to-do list. And as I said during the
budget hearing, he and I speak often, so -- N
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Guidance, leadership, and �+
excellence. Boy, we're doomed. No. I'm just kidding.
Listen, I would just propose to the County Manager as since
there's a bunch of meetings with Verizon, at our next copymissioner
meeting, even though it's -- we're not looking for give us a big
cell proposal, but I would like a 15B two wee r now to just tell
us what happened from the meetings --
MS. PATTERSON: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 1 0 a us feedback in two
weeks on the meetings, not the bi i%I Sal where towers might go
or whatever, but, you know, just up to speed. We're not going
to meet with Verizon in the n weeks, but you are multiple
times, and with the coun s. So I would just say, let's add that
to our meeting in two wee nd give us a "how goes it," you know,
from those meetin s. Owould be valuable to just get us up to speed.
MR. FRE : Yes, sir. We'll do that. And so the Board
knows, this i o our economic development and -- as well as
feasibility ith ards to resiliency in our community. We're
lookin at or our long-range plan as well.
AN LoCASTRO: County Manager, what's next?
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 15C. This is staff
Page 266
June 27, 2023
and commission general communications.
Well, Happy 4th of July early. Hope to see you -all at the sports
complex.
And we also have the time -- just a reminder, because our next
board meeting is on the 1 Ith of July, we have the time capsule \s4,
opening at the museum on the 7th of July, so Friday, and also tv
Time Travelers Picnic. So if any of you are around on Fri
afternoon, I think it's going to be a lot of fun. 0
With that, I have nothing else.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Hopefully Jimmy not at it.
Nothing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: efu ly who?
MR. KLATZKOW: Jimmy I�of n it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 10 Anything?
MS. PATTERSON: Commi si ers.
CHAIRMAN LoCAST kay. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER I just feel bad I'm not going to
be -- I'm going to be out o wn for the 4th of July, because I really
enjoy the Zambelli Firewwor s show. They really put on a good
show. I grew a ith the Zambellis up in Zelienople, I believe,
PennsylvaniaAL,-- ey put on a good show. But I'm tired. I'm
ready for bed.
COM IONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I'm thinking you're
past time.
IRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
MMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I've got 12
items I need to go through.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Terri's over here having a
conniption. We're already an hour past our break, but...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wish everybody a
Page 267
June 27, 2023
happy afternoon.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have nothing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Happy 4th. I
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We covered a lot o
ground today. I just want to remind us, on positive close, y4e.: i two
awesome things today. We fully funded a veterans nur i0home,
and we had Senator Passidomo here leading it off.
Leave here knowing that all of that discussio awesome.
We have an incredible opportunity with First t e golf course
and all the things that Commissioner Saunders a been leading.
And so, you know, thank you for that, anAe look forward to that
progress. 0 V
And we voted on Option 1 f ntral receiving facility.
That's a huge investment in our co nity, and I know that that's
something that's going to be a type of thing that's going to live
on long past us.
So we had a lot of of complicated conversations here about
all kinds of other things, but leave here knowing that two big, huge,
major things -- qA, also, we approved a storage unit that I hate a
little less tha !ryqother storage unit in Collier County, I'll go on
record.
We're dismissed.
* * * * Commissioner Hall moved, seconded by Commissioner
McDaniel, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted * * * *
June 27, 2023
Item # 16A 1
RESOLUTION 2023-121: A RESOLUTION AMENDING
RESOLUTION 2021-120 FOR THE BELLMAR VILLAGE SRA
WITHIN THE RURAL LANDS STEWARDSHIP AREA
OVERLAY DISTRICT (RLSA) BY WAY OF A FIRST
AMENDMENT TO THE CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR BL L AR
VILLAGE SRA. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LO D IN
SECTIONS 2, 3, 10, AND 11, TOWNSHIP 49 SOU TO,NGE28
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY. [PL20210001496] HIS A
Z COMPANION TO ITEMS # 16A2 AND # 17A
Item # 16A2
RESOLUTION 2023-122: A RE
RESOLUTION 2020-24 FOR
�IF
AMENDING
RGRASS VILLAGE SRA
WITHIN THE RURAL LAN STEWARDSHIP AREA
OVERLAY DISTRICT Y WAY OF A FIRST
AMENDMENT TO THE EDIT AGREEMENT FOR
RIVERGRASS VILLAGE SRA. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS
LOCATED IN TIONS 101 14, 15122, 231 AND 27, TOWNSHIP
48 SOUTH, 28 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY.
[PL202 I OQQftO1 ] (THIS IS A COMPANION TO ITEMS #16A1
AND # 17A
I
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER
FACILITIES FOR AUTOZONE #6873 NAPLES, PL20230002698.
Page 269
June 27, 2023
Item # 16A4
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR COLLIER COUNTY RESOURCE RECOVERY PARK -
PHASE A, PL20230004556. A
Item #16A5 �O
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WA
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCFiLT
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE P ABT,E WATER
AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES Fes[ S UTHBROOKE
MEDICAL CENTER, PL2023000368
Item # 16A6
RESOLUTION 2023-1
ACCEPTANCE OF
�1
UTION FOR FINAL
ATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDIC NS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF EDGE 75 BY
WATERMA LIGATION NUMBER PL20190000548 (FP)
AND APP,
AUTHOR:
SECL�
ON NUMBER PL20180003695 (SDP) AND
RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
XN THE AMOUNT OF $8,946.
Item # 16A7
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR
Page 270
June 27, 2023
VALENCIA TRAILS NAPLES - PLAT THREE, PL20220007022.
Item # 16A8
RECORDED THE MINOR FINAL PLAT ANTILLES 3,
APPLICATION PL20220007209. , 4;
Item #16A9 �O
RECORDED THE AMENDED FINAL PLAT OF MAS
REPEAT, (APPLICATION NUMBER PL20 5 )
APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD FORM RUCTION
AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT, D APPROVAL OF
THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY I AMOUNT OF
7.254.920.86. 44, k
Item #16A10 n�,v
RECORDED THE FINAVAT OF LIDO ISLES (APPLICATION
NUMBER PL20�2/20005501) APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD
FORM CONSTbt1lCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
AND APPR�
AMOUN�O
THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE
647,786.28.
Item
C RELEASED A PERFORMANCE BOND IN THE
AM UNT OF $140,960 WHICH WAS POSTED AS A
GUARANTY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER
PL20190000063 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH KAICASA.
Page 271
June 27, 2023
Item # 16A 12
A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE AND AUTHORIZE PAYMENT, IN
THE AMOUNT OF $675, FOR COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING
COMMISSIONER, JOSEPH SCHMITT, TO ATTEND THE
FLORIDA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 36TH ANNUAL
ENVIRONMENTAL PERMITTING SUMMER SCHOOL4�V
ENVIRONMENTAL PERMITTING SEMINAR FOR To ATES
OF JULY 18-21. 2023.
Item # 16A 13
RELEASE OF THREE CODE ENFORC
VALUE OF $285089.09 FOR PA
CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTIC
LIENS WITH A
$1,139.09 IN THE
ITLED BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WARD SLASIENSKI, CODE
ENFORCEMENT BOARDI/ 1 O. CEPM20090005339
RELATING TO PROPE 2 HIGHLANDS DRIVE,
COLLIER COUNTY, A ASE NOS. CENA20090005343 AND
CEPM20090005344, 4L TING TO PROPERTY 1100
HIGHLANDS DAIVE, COLLIER COUNTY.
Item # 16A14
EASEMENY USE AGREEMENT (AGREEMENT) FOR LOT 65,
PARROT CAY, ACCORDING TO THE PLAT THEREOF AS
RECORDED AT PLAT BOOK 58, PAGE 75 OF THE PUBLIC
RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY. (EUA-PL20220008520)
Item # 16A 15
Page 272
June 27, 2023
EASEMENT USE AGREEMENT (AGREEMENT) FOR LOT 70,
PARROT CAY, ACCORDING TO THE PLAT THEREOF AS
RECORDED AT PLAT BOOK 58, PAGE 75 OF THE PUBLIC
RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY. (EUA-PL20230001525)
Item # 16A 16 �+y
CONSERVATION COLLIER WINCHESTER HEADp
0ERVE
INTERIM MANAGEMENT PLAN UPDATE UNDE
CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM.
Item #16A17
AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PrAN
WITH: (1)
STEPHEN CRAPARO, (2) ALBLINDA M.
FLEMING, AND (3) IVAN ANDSSER UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIE D ACQUISITION PROGRAM,
AT A COST NOT TO EX $134,265.
Item # 16B 1 y
COLLIER C(,�II,�vTY LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
AGREEMEN�CETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
MAPLEW HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR
LAN AND IRRIGATION IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN
T RBROOK DRIVE, STANHOPE CIRCLE, AND
C FIELD CIRCLE PUBLIC RIGHTS -OF -WAY.
Item # 16132
COLLIER COUNTY LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
Page 273
June 27, 2023
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND COLLIER
HEALTH PARK OWNERS' ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR
LANDSCAPE AND IRRIGATION IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN
THE HEALTH PARK BOULEVARD PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY.
Item #16B3
AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO AGREEMENT RT015 BE
COLLIER COUNTY AND THE FLORIDA DEP
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TO EX
AGREEMENT FOR A THREE-MONTH PE
20231 TO SEPTEMBER 30, 20231 FOR BIO
REMOVAL ASSOCIATED WITH RED Al
COUNTY.
Item # 16B4
CHANGE ORDER NO.
�1
OF
ROM JULY 1,
AL DEBRIS
WITHIN COLLIER
G 90 DAYS UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 22-8_N "DAVIS BLVD (SR-84)
LANDSCAPE IMPRO)iEMENTS - GRANT FUNDED" PROJECT,
WITH HANNUL LANDSCAPING AND IRRIGATION, INC.,
AND AUTHRIZOIVTHE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED HANGE ORDER.
Item
ERONIC SUBMISSION OF THE COUNTY INCENTIVE
G NT PROGRAM (CIGP) APPLICATION WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO FUND A
PHASE OF IMMOKALEE RD. AND LIVINGSTON RD.
OVERPASS PROJECT IN THE AMOUNT OF $10,000,000.
Page 274
June 27, 2023
Item # 16B 6
RESOLUTION 2023-124: STATE FY2023/24
TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED TRIP & EQUIPM�T
GRANT AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA COMMIS
S �
FOR THE TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED IN
AMOUNT OF $744,198 WITH A LOCAL MATCH X
�,688,
TO ASSIST WITH SYSTEM OPERATING EXPENAND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMNCWENTS.
TRANSIT GRANT AND MATCH FUNDS 40M3Nw
Item #16B7
SELECTION COMMITTEE'S
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
SERVICES FOR 47TH A
EVERGLADES BOUL
BEGIN CONTRACT P
�YU�Ir
R REQUEST FOR
NO. 23-8085, "DESIGN
IMMOKALEE ROAD TO
AUTHORIZE STAFF TO
NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TOP -
RANKED FIRM, KIMLEY HORN AND ASSOCIATES, INC., SO
THAT STAFF CAN BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK
FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION AT A SUBSEQUENT
MEETING (PROJECT #60212).
Item
C At SERVICES FOR THE CR-846E SURTAX
SIDEWALK PROJECT, FROM EAST MAIN STREET (SR 29) TO
AIRPARK BOULEVARD, IN THE UNINCORPORATED
COMMUNITY OF IMMOKALEE, TO COASTAL CONCRETE
PRODUCTS LLC., UNDER THE ROADWAY CONTRACTOR
Page 275
June 27, 2023
SERVICES AGREEMENT NO. 21-7842. (PROJECT NUMBER
60228)
Item #16B9
CHANGE ORDER NO. 5 TO AGREEMENT NO. 16-6699,
PROFESSIONAL DESIGN SERVICES FOR THE "ELEVO �
BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS PROJECT" WITH HNTk
CORPORATION TO EXTEND THE CONTRACT TrFOR
PROFESSIONAL POST -DESIGN AND RELATF�`ERVICES ON
THE PROJECT BY AN ADDITIONAL 354 QANVIN A TOTAL
NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT OF $73,734.00VANIS AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTAC.HE6 CHANGE ORDER.
ROJECT #66066
Item # 16B 10
CHANGE ORDER NO.
�1
G 90 DAYS UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 22-8_N "COLLIER BLVD (SR-951)
LANDSCAPE IMPRO)iEMENTS - GRANT FUNDED" PROJECT,
WITH HANNUL LANDSCAPING AND IRRIGATION, INC.,
AND AUTHRIZOIVTHE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED HANGE ORDER.
Item A
C GE ORDER NO. 1 TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
AG EMENT NO. 19-7632 WITH HIGHSPANS ENGINEERING,
INC., FOR THE "CEI & RELATED SERVICES ON THE 11
BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS EAST OF STATE ROAD 29
PACKAGE A, B AND C" PROJECT, TO ADD 60 DAYS TO THE
Page 276
June 27, 2023
CONTRACT TIME AND REALLOCATE FUNDS FROM TASK 2
TO TASK 1 AND TASK 3 AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER. (PROJECT
NUMBER 66066)
Item # 16B 12
'V
CHANGE ORDER NO. 2, ADDING SEVENTEEN (17 (DYS TO
AGREEMENT NO. 20-7708 WITH QUALITY ENT ISES
USA, INC., FOR THE DESIGN BUILD OF VET
MEMORIAL BOULEVARD EXTENSION -I I ROJECT,
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO S
ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER. (COt?STY'PROJECT NUMBER
- �N, -
Item # 16B 13
COUNTY MANAGER'S-* D OF THE REQUEST FOR
QUOTE ("RFQ") FOR "CCON WETLAND OUTFALLS" UNDER
AGREEMENT #2 -78W, "UNDERGROUND CONTRACTOR
SERVICES" TO QOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC., IN THE
AMOUNT O
Item # 16C
311600.
EL'%viENT TO PROVIDE POTABLE WATER,
IEWATER AND IRRIGATION QUALITY WATER
ITY SERVICES BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, ACTING
AS EX-OFFICIO AS THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY WATER -SEWER DISTRICT (HERINAFTER
Page 277
June 27, 2023
REFERRED TO AS THE "CCWSD"), THE BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS OF THE BIG CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP
DISTRICT (HEREINAFTER REFERRED TO AS THE
"DISTRICT"), AND COLLIER LAND HOLDINGS, LTD.
(HEREINAFTER REFERRED TO AS "LANDOWNER") TO
EXCLUSIVELY PROVIDE POTABLE WATER, WASTEW ,
AND IRRIGATION QUALITY WATER SERVICES WITT
BELLMAR VILLAGE. (THIS IS A COMPANION TO loms
# 16C2 AND # 17A) �
Item # 16C2
UTILITY AGREEMENT BETWEEN CI}k L ND
INVESTMENTS, LLC AND COLI�l jVD HOLDINGS, LTD.
(LANDOWNERS), THE BOAR PERVISORS OF THE
BIG CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP RIOT (DISTRICT), AND
THE BOARD OF COUNTY ISSIONERS OF COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, EX-OFFICIO AS THE
GOVERNING BOARD'N THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER
SEWER DISTRICT (CfiWSD) TO EXCLUSIVELY PROVIDE
WASTEWATER, AND IRRIGATION
SERVICES WITHIN THE TOWN OF BIG
POTABLE W
QUALITY VY4
CYPRESS,ST
DEVELO
Ite 6C3
ARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA (SRA)
'. (THIS IS A COMPANION TO ITEMS # 16C 1
INVITATION TO BID ("ITB") NO. 23-8067, "TAMIAMI WELL
NO. 23 GENERATOR REPLACEMENT," TO ZABATT ENGINE
SERVICES, INC., D/B/A ZABATT POWER SYSTEMS INC., IN
Page 278
June 27, 2023
THE AMOUNT OF $327,681.91 AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
(PROJECT NUMBER 70069)
Item #16C4
CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID ("ITB") NO. 29 ,
"CARICA PUMP STATION ELECTRICAL IMPR VV QNTSI"
TO TECHNICAL MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATES ., IN THE
AMOUNT OF $963,100.00, AND AUTHORIZE HAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT
Item #16C5
CHANGE ORDER NO. 31 ALI
OWNER'S ALLOWANCE TO
DIRECTIVE NO. 2 IN THE
AGREEMENT NO. 22-
���w 0 IF
G A PORTION OF THE
THE COSTS FOR
INOUNT OF $12,220.08 UNDER
ZjTH QUALITY ENTERPRISES
USA, INC., FOR THE " CAN BAY BLVD SEWER
REPLACEMENT" PR;JE T, RATIFY THE WORK DIRECTED
BY STAFF ANLkOMPLETED UNDER WORK DIRECTIVE NO.
2, AND
ATTAC
Item
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
GE ORDER.
BET AMENDMENTS TO RECOGNIZE $912,600 IN
AD131TIONAL TIPPING FEE REVENUES RECEIVED AS
RESULT OF HURRICANE IAN IN THE SOLID WASTE
DISPOSAL FUND (FUND 4070) AND TO USE THOSE
REVENUES TO PAY FOR ADDITIONAL EXPENSES
Page 279
June 27, 2023
INCURRED AS A RESULT OF HURRICANE IAN IN THE SAME
FUND AND AUTHORIZE A BUDGET AMENDMENT
TRANSFERRING $80,000 IN THE MANDATORY TRASH
COLLECTION FUND (FUND 4073) TO PAY FOR ADDITIONAL
EXPENSES INCURRED AS A RESULT OF HURRICANE IA
Item # 16D 1
l 0
A RESTRICTED DONATION, IN THE AMOUNT 10,000,
FROM THE NATIONAL PHILANTHROPIC T N
SUPPORT OF COLLIER COUNTY DOME I AL
SERVICES. PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT F 839
Item # 16D2 0 �10
AGREEMENT NO. 23-020-NS, " FEW SOIL FUMIGANT,"
WITH SOUTHERN SOILS T OLUTIONS, LLC., IN AN
AMOUNT NOT TO EX 0000 PER FISCAL YEAR,
UNDER A SOLE -SOUR WAIVER FOR A PERIOD OF FIVE
YEARS. _ z
Item # 16E 1
REPORT IOWME SALE OF 48 ITEMS AND THE
SON OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $369,395.00
TED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD
ON APRIL 22, 2023.
Item # 16F 1
CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID ("ITB") NO. 23-8063,
June 27, 2023
"CCSO MARCO SUBSTATION SEAWALL & DREDGE," TO
BLUE MARLIN MARINE CONSTRUCTION & SERVICES,
INCORPORATED, IN THE AMOUNT OF $327,990, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT.
Item # 16F2
AGREEMENT FOR THE SALE AND PURCHAS
ACQUISITION OF FIVE (5) ACRES OF UT
FOR THE EXPANSION OF THE COLLIER,
MANAGEMENT DIVISION ("FLEET") FA,
AREA AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED03
Item # 16F3
MAGIC LIGHTS EVENT T
COLLIER COUNTY A
INC.
550.
O�
k THE
LAND
FLEET
PARKING
ScONDUCTED BY THE
FAIR AND EXPOSITION,
Item # 16F4
WAIVED H EQUIREMENT FOR THE ISSUANCE OF THE
NOTICE OCEED FOR COMMENCEMENT OF SERVICES
UN RCHASE ORDER 4500222179 TO TETRA TECH,
I ., PRELIMINARY RECOVERY CONSULTING
S PPORT SERVICES FOR HURRICANE IAN UNDER
CONTRACT # 17-7116, WHICH WERE NECESSARY TO
PROVIDE CRITICAL CONSULTING SERVICES IN THE
DISASTER RECOVERY SUPPORT TO COUNTY STAFF, AND
TO APPROVE/RATIFY AFTER -THE -FACT PAYMENT OF
Page 281
June 27, 2023
$238,056 IN EXPENDITURES WHICH HAVE BEEN INCURRED
THAT WERE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE CONTRACT
REQUIREMENTS.
Item #16F5
RESOLUTION 2023-125: RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DON NS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS THE
FISCAL YEAR 2022-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. ( BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED R SQLUVJON HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY T ARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPA4ZA E EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.
NIT
Item #16F6
THIRD EXTENSION A NDMENT TO INTERLOCAL
AGREEMENT BETWEOLLIER COUNTY AND THE CITY
OF NAPLES GOVERYN USE OF CITY OF NAPLES BEACH
PARKING FACILITIES AND PARK AND RECREATION
PROGRAM5�CENDING THE TERM TO SEPTEMBER 30,
2023.
Item
R ST FOR PROPOSAL ("RFP") NO. 22-8051, "AIRPORT
MANAGEMENT CONSULTING SERVICES," TO CRAWFORD,
MURPHY & TILLY, INC., AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
Page 282
June 27, 2023
Item # 1611
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
Page 283
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
JUNE 27, 2023
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION
AS DIRECTED:
A. DISTRICTS:
1) Wentworth Estates Community Development District:
12/11/2014 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/12/2015 Oath of Office — David Negip, Michelle May & Joseph
Newsome
03/12/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/14/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
08/13/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/12/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/11/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/11/2017 Oath of Office — James Oliver
05/11/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/10/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
10/12/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/09/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/14/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/25/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes
01/10/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/09/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/13/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/12/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/14/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/11/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/10/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/08/2020 Affidavit
11/12/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/13/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/12/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/11/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/10/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/13/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/10/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
04/13/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/09/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/14/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
2) Currents Community Development District:
08/12/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
09/20/2019 Affidavit
09/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Election Official Ballot
09/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Various Affidavits
09/11/2019 Oaths of Office — John Wollard, Robert Summers, II,
Ryan Futch, Timothy Martin
10/14/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/13/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/01/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/08/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/14/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
02/10/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/28/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/09/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/11/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
O1/12/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Oath of Office — Paul Zotter
05/11/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/14/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/04/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/11/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
3) Flow Way Community Development District:
11/11/2014 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
O1/13/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
02/10/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/17/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/12/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
09/08/2015 Signed Meeting Minute & Affidavit
10/13/2015 Affidavit
10/27/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/10/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/01/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/10/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/12/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
08/09/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/18/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/08/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/22/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/17/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/21/2017 Affidavit
03/21/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/25/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/14/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/05/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
10/17/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
10/25/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/08/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/29/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/15/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes & Oath of Office — Adam Painter
05/21/2018 Affidavit
08/20/2018 Affidavit
09/18/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/07/2018 Affidavit
12/18/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
12/18/2018 Oath of Office — Andrew Miller
02/06/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/19/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/16/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Oath of Office — Timothy Martin
05/16/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/20/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/18/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/25/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
08/22/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
09/19/2019 Affidavit
10/08/2019 Affidavit
O1/21/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/20/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
04/16/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Staff Reports
05/21/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/25/2020 Affidavit & Ordinance
07/16/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/17/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/13/2020 Affidavit
10/15/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/19/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/17/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
O1/21/2021 Affidavit
03/18/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/15/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/03/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/17/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/15/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/16/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/21/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit
11/18/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/02/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit
12/16/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/17/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
03/17/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/11/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit
04/21/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/19/2022 Affidavit
05/25/2022 Affidavit
06/16/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/22/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/21/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/04/2022 Affidavit
4) Landowner's Meeting Wentworth Estates Community Development
District
11/11/2014 Signed Meeting Minutes
03/12/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/10/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit & Oath of Office — Robert
Kody
5) Fiddlers Creek Community Development District #2
Establishing a CDD Ordinance Packet
04/09/2019 Letter of Purpose from Coleman, Yovanovich, Koester,
w/exhibits, Affidavit of Pre -Filed Testimony, Warranty Deed, Affidavit
6) Verona Walk Community Development District
05/19/2023 Proposed Fiscal Year 2023/2024 Budget (October 1, 2023
through September 30, 2024)
A. OTHER:
June 27, 2023
Item # 16J 1
RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPO
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE WN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN JUNE 1, 20231 AND 14,
2023, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06�
Item #16J2
DETERMINED VALID PUBLIC PURPQJEFOR INVOICES
PAYABLE AND PURCHASING CA 7NSACTIONS AS OF
J[JNE 21.2023.
v
Item # 16J3
AGREEMENT NO. 23-8 1, "AUDIT SERVICES," WITH
CLIFTONLARSONALLEN LLP FOR THREE YEARS OF
AUDITING S
OF $1,371,2
ANNUAL
CES IN THE AGGREGATE BASE AMOUNT
AUTHORIZE EXECUTION OF THE
ENGAGEMENT LETTER.
Item �4
R UTION 2023-126: APPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION ADVISORY
COMMITTEE —APPOINTING NICHOLAS PEARSON W/TERM
EXPIRING ON FEBRUARY 11, 2027
June 27, 2023
Item # 16K2
FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COUNTY, LA MINNESOTA
RIVIERA, LLC, AND THE RIVIERA GOLF ESTATES
HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION, INC., REGARDING
SETTLEMENT OF A BERT HARRIS CLAIM CONCELT
THE RIVIERA GOLF COURSE, IN ORDER TO EXT � THE
TIMEFRAMES PROVIDED FOR IN THE AGREE T.
Item #16K3
DIRECTED THE COUNTY ATTORNEY<['O ADVERTISE AND
BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HFA N ORDINANCE
ALLOWING FOR PUBLICATI ERTAIN STATUTORILY
REQUIRED LEGAL ADVERTI NTS, PUBLICATIONS,
AND NOTICES ON THE C F THE CIRCUIT COURT' S
PUBLIC NOTICE WEB LIEU OF NEWSPAPER
PUBLICATION.
Item # 16K4
APPROV L THE PROPOSED FEE SCHEDULES FOR THE
ATTORN ELECTED BY THE BOARD AT ITS JUNE 131
20231 NG TO PROVIDE LEGAL SERVICES FOR THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT & NUISANCE ABATEMENT BOARD
AN,UOCONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD.
IV
Item # 16K5
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF
Page 285
June 27, 2023
THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AGAINST KENNETH ANDREW SLUSSER
IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL
CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, TO
RECOVER $20,523.32 IN DAMAGES INCURRED BY THE
COUNTY FOR REPAIRS TO THE COLLIER COUNTY
GOVERNMENT COMPLEX SIGN, PLUS COSTS OF
LITIGATION.
Item # 16K6
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND
'1�1
RELEA THE
AMOUNT OF $950,000 PAYABLE TO LL'IER COUNTY TO
SETTLE THE CASES OF COLLIF�2 �I'Y V. MAMMOTH
CONSTRUCTORS, LLC (CASE 1-CA-000132), NOW
PENDING IN THE CIRCUIT CO OF THE TWENTIETH
JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AN OR COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA CONCERNI COUNTY' S CLAIM FOR
DAMAGES TO A 24" TEWATER FORCE MAIN AND THE
RELATED CASE OF .*M RISURE MUTUAL INSURANCE
COMPANY V. MMOTH CONSTRUCTORS, LLC, AND
BOARD OF , Y COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER
COUNTY CA� NO. 2:23-CV-00108-JLB-KCD) NOW PENDING
IN THE F L DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE
DISTI F FLORIDA, AN ACTION FOR DECLARATORY
R EGARDING AMERISURE'S COVERAGE FOR THE
L
Item # 17A
RESOLUTION 2023-127: RESOLUTION CREATING THE TOWN
June 27, 2023
OF BIG CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA BY
AMENDING THE LONGWATER VILLAGE STEWARDSHIP
RECEIVING AREA AND CONVERTING IT TO A TOWN, BY
DESIGNATING AN ADDITIONAL 544.6± ACRES AS A
STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA, TO ALLOW THE
DEVELOPMENT OF RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS, �v
COMMERCIAL/LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, CIVIC,
GOVERNMENTAL AND INSTITUTIONAL USES, .�ENIOR
HOUSING SUBJECT TO A MAXIMUM PM P
TRIP
CAP; AND BY APPROVING THE RECEIVING A CREDIT
AGREEMENT AND ESTABLISHING STE P CREDITS
UTILIZED BY THE DESIGNATION OF TH OF BIG
CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP RECENIN REA.
[PL20210001496] (THIS IS A COIvJP TO ITEMS #16A1,
#16A2. #16C1. AND #16C2) �Is M
Item #17B n�`v
V
ORDINANCE 2023-33: INANCE ESTABLISHING THE
CAYMAS COMMUNIXY EVELOPMENT DISTRICT ON
767.687± ACR OCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF COLLIER
BOULEVA P OXIMATELY TWO MILES SOUTH OF
DAVIS B UL ARD IN SECTIONS 11, 121131 AND 141
TOWNSH SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLO L202300003771
Itemr
RESOLUTION 2023-128: RESOLUTION PROVIDING FOR THE
ESTABLISHMENT OF A CONDITIONAL USE TO ALLOW A
CHURCH WITHIN THE ESTATES (E) ZONING DISTRICT
Page 287
June 27, 2023
PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.03.01.B.1.C.1 OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR A ±2.15-ACRE
PROPERTY LOCATED AT 13385 COLLIER BOULEVARD,
ALSO DESCRIBED AS THE NORTH 150 FEET OF TRACT 114,
GOLDEN GATE ESTATES, UNIT NO. 1 SUBDIVISION, O E
WEST SIDE OF COLLIER BOULEVARD, APPROXIMAT
ONE-HALF MILE NORTH OF PINE RIDGE ROAD, IN ON
10, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COL
COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL202200033271 _0
Item #17D
RESOLUTION 2023-129: RESOLUTIODdWPPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATIN FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEM � EVENUE) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET.�I BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOkWOARR:D
N HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
AND APPROVED BY OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA,PARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
June 27, 2023
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:01 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONER
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) Ol�
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITONTROL
�n
RICK LoCASTRO,
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK a✓
These mi
as presen
I
ed by the Board on ,
or as corrected
T SIERIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
C REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PR FESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.