BCC Minutes 06/27/2023June 27, 2023
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, June 27, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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June 27, 2023
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
June 27, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; – Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; – Vice Chair
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; – CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; – CRAB Co-Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A
CONSENT ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL
OF THE DAY’S CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE.
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June 27, 2023
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC
PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM
TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
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June 27, 2023
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation by Pastor Eric Hausler, Christ the King Presbyterian Church, and
the CCSO Chaplain for the Collier County Jail.
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (ex
parte disclosure provided by commission members for consent agenda.)
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
a) 25 Years - Enrique Perez - Pelican Bay Services Division
b) 25 Years - Vilmelena Dye - Parks & Recreation
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation recognizing the centennial anniversary of the Collier County
Sheriff's Office. To be accepted by Sheriff Kevin Rambosk.
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B. Proclamation recognizing ReRoute Americas as recipient of the Waste
Reduction Awards Program (WRAP) award, for contributing to the greater
good of Collier County by advocating the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle"
message, thereby helping to prolong the usable life of the Collier County
Landfill. To be accepted by Patrick Bishop, CEO, Michelle Du Preez, Vice
President, and represented by Jonathan Bartos with Solid & Hazardous
Waste Management Division.
C. Proclamation recognizing the Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Court and
Comptroller Office for its place as an instrumental part of the history of
Collier County during this Centennial Year Celebration. To be accepted by
Crystal Kinzel, Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Court and Comptroller.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation of the 2023 Florida Water Environment Association David W.
York Reuse System of the Year Award (Over 15MGD). This award is given
in recognition of outstanding water reuse programs in Florida based on
quality management, water reuse system, and public education/information
aspects of the Reuse System. To be accepted by Robert Von Holle, Public
Utilities Department Division Director Wastewater.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Recommendation to
approve an Ordinance amending the Tree Farm Mixed-Use Planned Unit
Development (MPUD) to add 120 dwelling units for a total of 580 dwelling
units (including 58 Low-Income Units), subject to an Affordable Housing
Density Bonus Agreement, on 58.84± acres located at the northwest corner
of Collier Boulevard and Immokalee Road, in Section 22, Township 38,
Range 26, Collier County, Florida. [PL20220004279]
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B. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Recommendation to
deny an Ordinance rezoning property from Commercial Intermediate
District (C-3) to Heavy Commercial District (C-5), subject to conditions, for
a self-storage facility and general commercial district (C-4) uses on +/-5.98
acres located on the north side of Tamiami Trail East (US 41) just east of
Collier Boulevard (CR 951), on Lots 2 and 3 of Inland Village subdivision,
in Section 3, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, in Collier County, Florida.
(RZ-PL20210002658)
C. Recommendation that the Board adopts an Ordinance creating the unpaved
private road emergency repair municipal service taxing unit by authorizing a
levy of not to exceed one (1.0) mil of ad valorem taxes per year. (This item
was continued from the February 28, 2023, and March 28, 2023, Board of
County Commissioners meetings)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. This item to be heard at 9:30 a.m. Recommendation to hear an update
from Senate President Kathleen Passidomo regarding the potential for
matching funds in the amount of $10 million from the State Legislature for
the purposes of constructing additional square footage not funded by the
United States Department of Veterans Affairs Construction Grant Program
for adult day health care and outpatient therapy services for the proposed
State veterans’ nursing home project.
B. This item to be heard immediately following 10A. Recommendation that
the Board direct staff to evaluate moving the proposed location of the State
veterans’ nursing home from the northwest parcel of the Golden Gate Golf
Course site to the 18-acre location originally proposed for development of
the Big Shots entertainment complex, to work with First Tee of Naples to
continue to ensure their development needs are met, and to determine if a
public golf course can be designed complementing these changes.
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. This item to be heard no sooner than 1 p.m. Recommendation to accept a
project update on the Collier County Mental Health Facility and staff
recommendation to proceed with the design of option number one for
87 total beds (45 CSU, 30 adult Medicare/Acute and 12 ESAC) with an
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estimated construction cost of $44 million. (Project No. 50239) (Ed Finn,
Deputy County Manager)
B. Recommendation to award Request for Proposal (“RFP”) #22-8023,
“Outsourcing of County Marinas,” to BluWater Florida, LLC. (“BluWater”)
in which eight percent of all gross sales revenue (excluding fuel), six percent
of gross sales revenue from fuel, and one hundred percent of all watercraft
launch and parking fees are remitted to the County, and authorize the
Chairman to sign the attached Agreement. (Olema Edwards, Parks and
Recreation Division Director)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATE
1) 4TH OF JULY FIREWORKS UPDATE
2) COMMERCIAL VENDOR PERMITS
3) CELL SERVICE/TOWER UPDATE
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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16. Consent agenda - all matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the board, that item(s) will
be removed from the consent agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to adopt a resolution amending Resolution 2021-
120 for the Bellmar Village SRA within the Rural Lands Stewardship
Area Overlay District (RLSA) by way of a first amendment to the
Credit Agreement for Bellmar Village SRA. The subject property is
located in Sections 2, 3, 10, and 11, Township 49 South, Range 28
East, Collier County. [PL20210001496] (This is a companion to Items
#16A2 and #17A)
2) Recommendation to adopt a resolution amending Resolution 2020-24
for the Rivergrass Village SRA within the Rural Lands Stewardship
Area Overlay District (RLSA) by way of a first amendment to the
Credit Agreement for Rivergrass Village SRA. The subject property
is located in Sections 10, 14, 15, 22, 23, and 27, Township 48 South,
Range 28 East, Collier County. [PL20210001496] (This is a
companion to Items #16A1 and #17A)
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water facilities for AutoZone #6873 Naples, PL20230002698.
4) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the sewer utility
facilities for Collier County Resource Recovery Park – Phase A,
PL20230004556.
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water and sewer utility facilities for Southbrooke Medical
Center, PL20230003683.
6) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Edge 75 by Watermark,
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Application Number PL20190000548 (FP) and Application Number
PL20180003695 (SDP), and authorize the release of the maintenance
security in the amount of $8,946.
7) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer facilities and accept the conveyance of the potable water and
sewer facilities for Valencia Trails Naples - Plat Three,
PL20220007022.
8) Recommendation to approve for recording the minor final plat
Antilles 3, application PL20220007209.
9) Recommendation to approve for recording the amended final plat of
Caymas Replat, (Application Number PL20220008455) approval of
the standard form Construction and Maintenance Agreement, and
approval of the performance security in the amount of $7,254,920.86.
10) Recommendation to approve for recording the final plat of Lido Isles
(Application Number PL20220005501) approval of the standard form
Construction and Maintenance Agreement and approval of the
performance security in the amount of $1,647,786.28.
11) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a
Performance Bond in the amount of $140,960 which was posted as a
guaranty for Excavation Permit Number PL20190000063 for work
associated with Kaicasa.
12) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners determine
a valid public purpose and authorize payment, in the amount of $675,
for Collier County Planning Commissioner, Joseph Schmitt, to attend
the Florida Chamber of Commerce 36th Annual Environmental
Permitting Summer School, an Environmental Permitting Seminar for
the dates of July 18-21, 2023.
13) Recommendation to approve the release of three code
enforcement liens with a value of $28,089.09 for payment of
$1,139.09 in the code enforcement actions entitled Board of County
Commissioners v. Edward Slasienski, Code Enforcement Board Case
No. CEPM20090005339 relating to property 1112 Highlands Drive,
Collier County, and Case Nos. CENA20090005343 and
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CEPM20090005344, relating to property 1100 Highlands Drive,
Collier County.
14) Recommendation to approve an Easement Use Agreement
(Agreement) for Lot 65, Parrot Cay, according to the plat thereof as
recorded at Plat Book 58, Page 75 of the public records of Collier
County. (EUA-PL20220008520)
15) Recommendation to approve an Easement Use Agreement
(Agreement) for Lot 70, Parrot Cay, according to the plat thereof as
recorded at Plat Book 58, Page 75 of the public records of Collier
County. (EUA-PL20230001525)
16) Recommendation to approve the Conservation Collier Winchester
Head Preserve Interim Management Plan update under the
Conservation Collier Program.
17) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase
with: (1) Stephen Craparo, (2) Albert N. and Linda M. Fleming, and
(3) Ivan and Ann O. Fesser under the Conservation Collier Land
Acquisition Program, at a cost not to exceed $134,265.
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation that the Board approves and authorizes the
Chairman to execute a Collier County Landscape Maintenance
Agreement between Collier County and Maplewood Homeowners’
Association, Inc., for landscape and irrigation improvements within
the Sherbrook Drive, Stanhope Circle, and Crossfield Circle public
rights-of-way.
2) Recommendation that the Board approves and authorizes the
Chairman to execute a Collier County Landscape Maintenance
Agreement between Collier County and Collier Health Park Owners’
Association, Inc., for landscape and irrigation improvements within
the Health Park Boulevard public right-of-way.
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute
Amendment No. 1 to Agreement RT015 between Collier County and
the Florida Department of Environmental Protection to extend the
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Agreement for a three-month period from July 1, 2023, to September
30, 2023, for Biological Debris Removal associated with Red Tide
within Collier County.
4) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 adding 90 days
under Agreement No. 22-8046, "Davis Blvd (SR-84) Landscape
Improvements - Grant Funded" project, with Hannula Landscaping
and Irrigation, Inc., and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
change order.
5) Recommendation to authorize the electronic submission of the County
Incentive Grant Program (CIGP) Application with the Florida
Department of Transportation to fund a phase of Immokalee Rd. and
Livingston Rd. overpass project in the amount of $10,000,000.
6) Recommendation to approve a Resolution and authorize the Chairman
to execute the State FY2023/24 Transportation Disadvantaged Trip &
Equipment Grant Agreement with the Florida Commission for the
Transportation Disadvantaged in the amount of $744,198 with a local
match of $82,688, to assist with system operating expenses, and
authorize the necessary budget amendments. (Transit Grant and
Match Funds 4034/4035)
7) Recommendation to approve the Selection Committee’s ranking for
Request for Professional Services (“RPS”) No. 23-8085, “Design
Services for 47th Avenue NE - Immokalee Road to Everglades
Boulevard” and authorize staff to begin contract price negotiations
with the top-ranked firm, Kimley Horn and Associates, Inc., so that
staff can bring a proposed agreement back for the Board’s
consideration at a subsequent meeting (Project #60212).
8) Recommendation to award Construction Services for the CR-846E
Surtax Sidewalk Project, from East Main Street (SR 29) to Airpark
Boulevard, in the unincorporated community of Immokalee, to
Coastal Concrete Products LLC., under the Roadway Contractor
Services Agreement No. 21-7842. (Project Number 60228)
9) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 5 to Agreement No.
16-6699, Professional Design Services for the “Eleven Bridge
Replacements Project” with HNTB Corporation to extend the contract
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time for professional post-design and related services on the project
by an additional 354 days, in a total not to exceed amount of
$73,734.00, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change
order. (Project #66066)
10) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 adding 90 days
under Agreement No. 22-8047, "Collier Blvd (SR-951) Landscape
Improvements - Grant Funded" project, with Hannula Landscaping
and Irrigation, Inc., and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
change order.
11) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 to Professional
Services Agreement No. 19-7632 with HighSpans Engineering, Inc.,
for the “CEI & Related Services on the 11 Bridge Replacements East
of State Road 29 Package A, B and C” project, to add 60 days to the
contract time and reallocate funds from Task 2 to Task 1 and Task 3,
and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change order.
(Project Number 66066)
12) Recommendation to ratify and approve Change Order No. 2, adding
seventeen (17) days to Agreement No. 20-7708 with Quality
Enterprises USA, Inc., for the Design Build of Veteran Memorial
Boulevard Extension-Phase I project, and authorize the Chairman to
sign the attached change order. (County Project Number 60198)
13) Recommendation to ratify the County Manager’s award of the
Request for Quote (“RFQ”) for “CCON Wetland Outfalls” under
agreement #20-7800, “Underground Contractor Services” to Douglas
N. Higgins, Inc., in the amount of $631,300.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve an Agreement to Provide Potable Water,
Wastewater and Irrigation Quality Water Utility Services between the
Board of County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, acting as
ex-officio as the Governing Board of the Collier County Water-Sewer
District (hereinafter referred to as the "CCWSD"), the Board of
Supervisors of the Big Cypress Stewardship District (hereinafter
referred to as the "District"), and Collier Land Holdings, Ltd.
(hereinafter referred to as "Landowner") to exclusively provide
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potable water, wastewater and irrigation quality water services within
Bellmar Village. (This is a companion to Items #16C2 and #17A)
2) Recommendation to approve a Utility Agreement between CDC Land
Investments, LLC and Collier Land Holdings, Ltd. (Landowners), the
Board of Supervisors of the Big Cypress Stewardship District
(District), and the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County,
Florida, acting ex-officio as the Governing Board of the Collier
County Water Sewer District (CCWSD) to exclusively provide
potable water, wastewater and irrigation quality water services within
the Town of Big Cypress Stewardship Receiving Area (SRA)
development. (This is a companion to Items #16C1 and #17A)
3) Recommendation to award Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No. 23-8067,
“Tamiami Well No. 23 Generator Replacement,” to Zabatt Engine
Services, Inc., d/b/a Zabatt Power Systems Inc., in the amount of
$327,681.91, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
Agreement. (Project Number 70069)
4) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No.
23-8092, “Carica Pump Station Electrical Improvements,” to
Technical Management Associates, Inc., in the amount of
$963,100.00, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement.
5) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 3, allocating a portion
of the Owner’s Allowance to cover the costs for Work Directive No. 2
in the amount of $12,220.08 under Agreement No. 22-7950 with
Quality Enterprises USA, Inc., for the “Pelican Bay Blvd Sewer
Replacement” project, ratify the work directed by staff and completed
under Work Directive No. 2, and authorize the Chairman to sign the
attached change order.
6) Recommendation to authorize budget amendments to recognize
$912,600 in additional tipping fee revenues received as result of
Hurricane Ian in the Solid Waste Disposal Fund (Fund 4070) and to
use those revenues to pay for additional expenses incurred as a result
of Hurricane Ian in the same fund, and authorize a budget amendment
transferring $80,000 in the Mandatory Trash Collection Fund (Fund
4073) to pay for additional expenses incurred because of Hurricane
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Ian.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to accept a restricted donation, in the amount of
$10,000, from the National Philanthropic Trust in support of Collier
County Domestic Animal Services. (Public Services Grant Fund
1839)
2) Recommendation to approve agreement No. 23-020-NS, “Curfew Soil
Fumigant,” with Southern Soils Turf Solutions, LLC., in an amount
not to exceed $100,000 per Fiscal Year, under a sole-source waiver
for a period of five years.
E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to accept the report for the sale of 48 items and the
allocation of funds in the amount of $369,395.00 associated with the
County surplus auction held on April 22, 2023.
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No.
23-8063, “CCSO Marco Substation Seawall & Dredge,” to Blue
Marlin Marine Construction & Services, Incorporated, in the amount
of $327,990, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
Agreement.
2) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the Sale and Purchase
for the acquisition of five (5) acres of unimproved land for the
expansion of the Collier County Fleet Management Division (“Fleet”)
facility parking area at a cost not to exceed $603,550.
3) Recommendation to approve the Magic Lights Event to be conducted
by the Collier County Agricultural Fair and Exposition, Inc.
4) Recommendation to waive the requirement for the issuance of the
Notice to Proceed for commencement of services under Purchase
Order 4500222179 to Tetra Tech, Inc., for preliminary recovery
consulting support services for Hurricane Ian under Contract #17-
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June 27, 2023
7116, which were necessary to provide critical consulting services in
the disaster recovery support to County staff, and to approve/ratify
after-the-fact payment of $238,056 in expenditures which have been
incurred that were out of compliance with the contract requirements.
5) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendment
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2022-23 Adopted Budget. (The Budget
Amendments in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and
approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
6) Recommendation to approve Third Extension and Amendment to
Interlocal Agreement between Collier County and the City of Naples
governing use of City of Naples beach parking facilities and park and
recreation programs extending the term to September 30, 2023.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation to award Request for Proposal (“RFP”) No. 22-
8051, “Airport Management Consulting Services,” to Crawford,
Murphy & Tilly, Inc., and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement.
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous Correspondence June 27, 2023.
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between June 1, 2023, and June 14, 2023, pursuant to Florida
Statute 136.06.
2) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of June 21,
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June 27, 2023
2023.
3) Recommendation to approve Agreement No. 23-8081, “Audit
Services,” with CliftonLarsonAllen LLP for three years of auditing
services in the aggregate base amount of $1,371,250 and authorize
execution of the annual audit engagement letter.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to appoint a member to the Conservation Collier
Land Acquisition Advisory Committee.
2) Recommendation to approve and execute a First Amendment to the
Mediated Settlement Agreement between the County, La Minnesota
Riviera, LLC, and the Riviera Golf Estates Homeowners Association,
Inc., regarding settlement of a Bert Harris Claim concerning the
Riviera Golf Course, in order to extend the timeframes provided for in
the Agreement.
3) Recommendation to direct the County Attorney to advertise and bring
back for a public hearing an Ordinance allowing for publication of
certain statutorily required legal advertisements, publications, and
notices on the Clerk of the Circuit Court’s public notice website in
lieu of newspaper publication.
4) Recommendation that the Board approve the proposed fee schedules
for the attorneys selected by the Board at its June 13, 2023, meeting to
provide Legal Services for the Code Enforcement & Nuisance
Abatement Board and Contractor Licensing Board.
5) Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to file a lawsuit on
behalf of the Collier County Board of County Commissioners against
Kenneth Andrew Slusser in the County Court of the Twentieth
Judicial Circuit in and for Collier County, Florida, to recover
$20,523.32 in damages incurred by the County for repairs to the
Collier County Government Complex sign, plus costs of litigation.
6) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Settlement Agreement and Release in the amount of $950,000 payable
to Collier County to settle the cases of Collier County v. Mammoth
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June 27, 2023
Constructors, LLC (Case No. 2021-CA-000132), now pending in the
Circuit Court of the Twentieth Judicial Circuit in and for Collier
County, Florida concerning the County’s claim for damages to a 24”
wastewater force main and the related case of Amerisure Mutual
Insurance Company v. Mammoth Constructors, LLC, and Board of
County Commissioners of Collier County (Case No. 2:23-cv-00108-
JLB-KCD) now pending in the Federal District Court for the Middle
District of Florida, an action for declaratory relief regarding
Amerisure’s coverage for the loss.
L. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
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17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) a recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) unanimous recommendation for approval by the collier county
planning commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) no written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
collier county planning commission, other authorizing agencies or the board,
prior to the commencement of the bcc meeting on which the items are
scheduled to be heard; and 4) no individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
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A. This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a Resolution
creating the Town of Big Cypress Stewardship Receiving Area by amending
the Longwater Village Stewardship Receiving Area and converting it to a
town, by designating an additional 544.6± acres as a Stewardship Receiving
Area, to allow the development of residential dwelling units,
commercial/light industrial, civic, governmental and institutional uses, and
senior housing subject to a maximum PM peak hour trip cap; and by
approving the receiving area credit agreement and establishing stewardship
credits utilized by the designation of the Town of Big Cypress Stewardship
Receiving Area. [PL20210001496] (This is a companion to Items #16A1,
#16A2, #16C1, and #16C2)
B. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance establishing the Caymas
Page 17
June 27, 2023
Community Development District on 767.687± acres located on the east side
of Collier Boulevard approximately two miles south of Davis Boulevard in
Sections 11, 12, 13, and 14, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier
County, Florida. [PL20230000377]
C. This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a Resolution
providing for the establishment of a conditional use to allow a church within
the Estates (E) Zoning District pursuant to Section 2.03.01.B.1.c.1 of the
Collier County Land Development Code for a ±2.15-acre property located at
13385 Collier Boulevard, also described as the North 150 feet of Tract 114,
Golden Gate Estates, Unit No. 1 subdivision, on the west side of Collier
Boulevard, approximately one-half mile north of Pine Ridge Road, in
Section 10, Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
[PL20220003327]
D. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendment (appropriating
carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the FY22-23 Adopted
Budget. (The budget amendments in the attached Resolution have been
reviewed and approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.)
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD’S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER’S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
June 27, 2023
Page 2
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning, everybody.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Listen, if you have any outstanding
warrants or tickets, we've got top leadership from our Sheriff's Office
in town. You've got the man and a bunch of his staff here. So if
you want to sneak out the back, okay. He might be here under false
pretenses and looking for a couple of you. And you know who you
are, so just get up quietly and, you know, just slide out the back.
Sheriff, always great to see you. Thank you, sir, for what you
do for our county.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: Good morning. We're going to begin our
invocation and Pledge. Our invocation is going to be given today by
Chaplain Eric Hausler for the Collier County Sheriff's Office at the
Naples Jail. He's also the pastor of Christ the King Church in East
Naples.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, Chair [sic], if I would ask
you to come forward and lead us in the Pledge afterwards, if you
would, sir, it would be our honor.
Item #1A
INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE BY PASTOR
ERIC HAUSLER FROM THE KING PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
AND CCSO CHAPLAIN FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY JAIL –
INVOCATION GIVEN
PASTOR HAUSLER: The Book of Proverbs in the Old
Testament says the Lord gives wisdom. From his mouth comes
June 27, 2023
Page 3
knowledge and understanding. And wisdom is better than jewels,
and all that you desire cannot compare with her.
I want to pray for wisdom for our commissioners today. Let's
pray.
Gracious Heavenly Father, we bow before you and thank you
for this day. Thank you, oh, Lord, our God, for the opportunity that
you've given us to be here. Thank you that we live in a free and
prosperous country.
Thank you, Lord, for the commissioners and their work today.
We pray that you would give them wisdom, that you would lead them
and guide them. We pray, Lord, that the outcome of this meeting
would be honoring to you and good for our community. We also
thank you, oh, Lord, for all our first responders. We thank you for
those who are on the road even right now protecting us and our
families.
We thank you for every blessing we enjoy, and we ask for your
blessing now on this meeting. We thank you for every good gift you
give us.
We pray in Christ's name. Amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL - APPROVED AND OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I'll take you through the
June 27, 2023
Page 4
changes.
First we have a note: Items 10A and 10B are sponsored by
Commissioner Saunders.
We have added language for Item 17A. On Page 52 of the
resolution, Section 9.6.A.1, affordable housing of the SRA document
should read: A 497-unit, 49.7-acre Parcel 1, and a 385-unit,
38.5-acre Parcel 2, affordable housing sites, will be set aside for
acquisition by either Collier County, a community land trust, a
private developer, or any other affordable housing provider based
upon the appraised value of $22,500 per acre -- this is the added
language -- with a right of first refusal to Collier County.
The affordable housing parcel will be considered as a public
benefit use and does not require stewardship credits but shall be
included in the calculation of total SRA acreage. The affordable
housing units shall be excluded from the Traffic Impact Statement or
trip cap for the SRA in which they are located. Parcel 1 and Parcel 2
will be offered for sale for Collier County in writing before they are
offered to other entities. That is all for the changes.
We do have several time-certain items.
Item 10A is to be heard at 9:30 a.m. This is an update from
Senate President Kathleen Passidomo regarding the potential for
matching funds in the amount of $10 million from the State
Legislature for the State Veterans' Nursing Home project.
Item 10B will be heard immediately following 10A. This is a
recommendation to move the proposed location of the State Veterans'
Nursing Home Project, work with the First Tee of Naples to ensure
their development needs are met and determine if a public golf course
can be designed.
And, finally, Item 11A to be heard no sooner than 1:00 p.m.
This is an update on the Collier County Mental Health Facility and
design direction.
June 27, 2023
Page 5
We have court reporter breaks set for 10:30 and 2:50, and we do
plan to try to take lunch at noon so we can accommodate our 1:00
time-certain.
With that, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll go to my colleagues
here. Commissioner Kowal, do you have any changes or disclosures
for the consent or summary agenda?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no changes, but I do have
emails, correspondence, and meetings for the summary agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have changes to the agenda. I do have on ex parte on the
summary agenda, some conversations, some emails in reference to
the Longwood Village Stewardship issue, and also the 17C item as
well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No changes. I do have meetings
and emails on both summary agendas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I, as well, have no changes,
and ex parte meetings and emails on both 17A and C.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have no changes, and I
have ex parte meetings on 17A, and that's it.
Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I believe we have a
couple of speakers on both the summary and the consent agenda.
Troy.
June 27, 2023
Page 6
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: That is correct. For our first speaker, on Item
16K1 is Nick Pearson. He will be followed by Matthew Schwartz,
who will be speaking on 17A.
Mr. Pearson, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll
do so at this time.
And there he is.
Mr. Pearson, you have three minutes, sir. Go ahead, sir.
MR. PEARSON: I was just calling in for the Conservation
Collier media agenda item. I don't really have anything to say. I
just wanted to be in attendance in case anyone had any questions for
me.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, sir. We'll move on.
Our next registered speaker, Item 17A, is Matthew Schwartz.
Mr. Schwartz, you should be prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that at this time. And I'm going to give him just a -- oh,
there he is.
Mr. Schwartz, you have three minutes, sir.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Thank
you. Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, great. Okay. Let me try to get
through this in three minutes.
The last time I was here talking about this issue, I was asked
to -- I asked you folks to hold a public workshop with federal
scientists who spent over 10 years analyzing the entire RLSA from
the standpoint of its direct and indirect impacts on many federally
listed species, including the Florida panther. That idea was rejected
within the county, telling me that they had already conducted their
own analysis of the RLSA 20 years ago, and that was sufficient.
I'm bumping the request up now. I'm requesting that the Collier
June 27, 2023
Page 7
County Commission denies the application today and informs the
applicant that the condition for getting this project approved is going
through an approved federal Habitat Conservation Plan and incidental
take permit. This commission does not have the authority to issue
that.
I'm going to read a short definition of "take" as it applies to the
Endangered Species Act, and this is from Cornell's Legal Information
Institute.
No one, public or private, can take an endangered species of fish
or wildlife. "Take" has been broadly defined to include, quote,
harass, harm, pursue, punt, shoot, boom, kill, trap, capture, or collect,
end quote.
Furthermore, FWS has declared that "harm" includes significant
habitat modification or degradation. Thus, the habitat as well as the
endangered animal is protected from private action.
The definition of "harm" comes directly from Title 50, Code of
Federal Regulations, Part 10, Section 2. It includes the habitat. No
one, including the applicants, are stating that no harm will come to
the Florida panther and its habitat due to this and other projects in the
area. In fact, the applicants were the ones who voluntarily went to
the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in May of 2009 and requested an
incidental take permit along with an accompanying Habitat
Conservation Plan to comply with federal law.
From Section 10 of the Endangered Species Act, no permit may
be issued by the secretary authorizing any taking unless the applicant
submits to the secretary a conservation plan that specifies: One, the
impact which will likely result from such taking; two, what steps the
applicant will take to minimize and mitigate such impacts and the
finding that will be able to implement such steps; three, what
alternative actions to such taking the applicant considered and the
reasons why such alternatives are not being utilized; and, four, such
June 27, 2023
Page 8
other measures that the secretary may require as being necessary or
appropriate for purposes of the plan.
Up until August of 2022, the applicants were engaged in this
process with the Fish and Wildlife Service. They then suddenly quit.
Sorry to say, that's like a teenager who cannot pass his driving
lessons -- his driving test, road test, for one reason or another and
decides to take his or her chances and drive without a license.
Proceeding with approval and construction in the RLSA at this
point without that permit, incidental take permit, is essentially driving
without a license. It should be rejected by this commission until the
required federal permit is obtained.
The applicant needs to go back to the Fish and Wildlife Service
and restart the Habitat Conservation Plan incidental take permit
process. I suggest you consult with your County Attorney on this,
who may need to consult with an attorney familiar with the details of
the Endangered Species Act, before going any further down this path
at this point. And I thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, please sum up. Great.
Thank you, sir.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I'm done if you have any questions about
this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I'm here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, normally public
comment is people speak for three minutes, and then we just move
on, but I've never been a huge fan of that, especially when there's a
lot of -- if the public comment leaves a few things, you know, on the
table. I just want to give the opportunity to the County Manager
and/or -- the County Manager or the County Attorney to comment,
June 27, 2023
Page 9
because I heard a few things in those statements that are of concern
when, you know, I hear statements like we totally rejected protecting
panthers and nothing's being done with the RLSA.
I personally have been in this room quite a bit over the last two
and a half years where we're digging into the RLSA. We realize it's
dusty. We're doing quite a bit.
So the speaker and maybe other citizens may not realize that, but
that statement, I don't think, is entirely accurate based on my
experience.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Mr. Chair, just to say
this --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I mean, this is not -- the
public speaker certainly has a right to say anything --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I understand that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- they wish and make
representations about anything that he wishes, factual or not, as the
case may be. So we're -- you certainly have the authority to speak
with the County Attorney and ask -- or the County Manager --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- as the case may be, but this
is -- this is not the time or place for --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I understand that. I mean, I'm not
here to start a debate, but I think when somebody makes a public
statement that has a lot of loaded things that either point out the
County Attorney or something that the County Manager is working
aggressively on, all's I say is -- I don't disagree with Commissioner
McDaniel, but I want to give you the opportunity to not just sort of
move on and have that sit out there if you so desire to take it. If not,
then we'll move on. I've said my piece.
County Manager, is there anything you wanted to say or add?
June 27, 2023
Page 10
MS. PATTERSON: The RLSA is a signature and landmark
piece of legislation dating back years, and primary in that is the
preservation of natural lands. And the approval of these types of
land-use petitions does not waive any requirement for state, federal,
or local permitting. So all of those things will still be worked
through as they move through their phases of development.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. I just
wanted to give you the opportunity to be able to say that or not.
County Attorney, is there anything you have to say, sir?
MR. KLATZKOW: I thought the County Manager stated it
well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. I disagree with
Commissioner McDaniel. This is the time and place to have this
type of a discussion. And I agree with the Chairman. If someone
says something that triggers a question, then we need to ask it. This
is the time and place to do that. So I appreciate that.
But my comment is that we don't have any of the environmental
organizations here that I'm aware of. I've received no comments
from any of the environmental organizations on this. And I can tell
you -- and this is really for the audience. They do a great job in
keeping track of what's happening from an environmental standpoint.
Them not being here, the Conservancy, the Wildlife Federation,
Audubon, seems to me to be sort of an indication that maybe this
is -- we're on the right path.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well said.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was better said than
mine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It was. That's why -- I was going
to cancel you out anyway, but you shut off. No.
June 27, 2023
Page 11
And that was my only desire. I agree with both of you. I'm
not here to start a big debate, but I think sometimes when stuff's just
sort of hanging out there, it makes the public comment seem, like,
unimportant that we just let people speak, say whatever they want,
and then we move on. That's -- you know, I think we're here to run a
much more dynamic meeting, or at least, you know, I will while I
have the gavel, and you-all stated it perfectly.
Okay. County Manager, what's next? Or do we have another
comment? I'm sorry, sir, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: No, that was our final public comment on
consent and summary, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
MS. PATTERSON: We are at Item 2A. This is the approval
of the today's regular, consent, and summary agenda as amended.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Movement and second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Next.
SEE REVERSE SIDE
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
June 27, 2023
Notes: Items 10A and 10B are sponsored by Commissioner Saunders.
Added language to Item 17A: On page 52 of the Resolution, Section 9.6.A 1.) Affordable Housing of the SRA
document should read:
1.) A 497- unit, 49. 7- acre, Parcel 1 and a 385- unit, 38. 5- acre, Parcel 2: affordable housing sites will be set
aside for acquisition by either Collier County, a Community Land Trust, a private developer or any other
affordable housing provider based upon the appraised value of $22,500/ acre, with a right of first refusal to Collier
County. The Affordable Housing parcel will be considered as a Public Benefit Use and does not require
Stewardship Credits but shall be included in the calculation of total SRA acreage. The Affordable Housing units
shall be excluded from the Traffic Impact Statement or trip cap for the SRA in which they are located. Parcel 1 and
Parcel 2 will be offered for sale to Collier County in writing before they are offered to other entities.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 10A to be heard at 9:30 a.m.: Update from Senate President Kathleen Passidomo regarding the potential for
matching funds in the amount of $10 million from the State Legislature for the State Veterans’ Nursing Home
Project.
Item 10B to be heard immediately following 10A: Recommendation to move the proposed location of the State
Veterans’ Nursing Home Project, work with the First Tee of Naples to ensure their development needs are met, and
determine if a public golf course can be designed.
Item 11A to be heard no sooner than 1:00 p.m.: Update on the Collier County Mental Health Facility and design
direction.
9/29/2023 4:04 PM
June 27, 2023
Page 12
Item #3A2
25 YEAR ATTENDEES – ENRIQUE PEREZ, PELICAN BAY
SERVICES DIVISION AND VILMELENA DYE, PARKS AND
RECREATION
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3 is awards and recognitions. We
have two today.
The first is Item 3.A.2.a, 25 years, Enrique Perez, Pelican Bay
Services Division.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't know how they move.
They move on their own. This place is haunted.
He gets to keep the bag. It's included. It's included. Yeah.
Very good. Thank you.
Thank you.
Item #3A2
25 YEAR ATTENDEES – ENRIQUE PEREZ, PELICAN BAY
SERVICES DIVISION AND VILMELENA DYE, PARKS AND
RECREATION
MS. PATTERSON: Twenty-five years, Vilmelena Dye, Parks
and Recreation.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Bring the babies up.
MS. DYE: Can I bring the family up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Family photo.
(Applause.)
June 27, 2023
Page 13
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE CENTENNIAL
ANNIVERSARY OF THE COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE. ACCEPTED BY SHERIFF KEVIN RAMBOSK.
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4A is a proclamation recognizing the
centennial anniversary of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to be
accepted by Sheriff Kevin Rambosk.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He looks good for 100 years. He
really takes care of himself.
Thank you, sir, for all you do.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you, sir. Can we have our staff
with us that are here come on up.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Absolutely.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Everybody, please come on up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sheriff, who do you like the best?
Who else?
THE PHOTOGRAPHER: Look at me first.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sheriff, would you like to say
anything?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes, please.
(Applause.)
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good morning. Chairman,
Commission, thank you for recognizing our 100 years and our
century of service, as we also recognize you. Certainly, without
your support and the support of our community, we could not have
accomplished where we are.
June 27, 2023
Page 14
As I mentioned in the past, today our quality of life, with the
work that our members do and that of all of your staff, is one of the
best in the world, and we're honored and proud to be a part of that.
You know, we look at our safe community, number one, but
most importantly, I want to recognize the men and women of the
Collier County Sheriff's Office who are out there 24/7 doing the work
that we need to do proactively in a very dedicated, committed, and
compassionate way to keep Collier County safe, and that we live in a
community where the public is supportive of professional law
enforcement.
So thank you very much. Appreciate it.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING REROUTE AMERICAS AS
RECIPIENT OF THE WASTE REDUCTION AWARDS
PROGRAM (WRAP) AWARD, FOR CONTRIBUTING TO THE
GREATER GOOD OF COLLIER COUNTY BY ADVOCATING
THE "REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE" MESSAGE, THEREBY
HELPING TO PROLONG THE USABLE LIFE OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY LANDFILL. ACCEPTED BY PATRICK BISHOP, CEO,
MICHELLE DU PREEZ, VICE PRESIDENT, AND
REPRESENTED BY JONATHAN BARTOS WITH SOLID &
HAZARDOUS WASTE MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: 4B is a proclamation recognizing ReRoute
Americas as recipient of the Waste Reduction Awards Program for
contributing to the greater good of Collier County by advocating the
June 27, 2023
Page 15
"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" message, thereby helping to prolong the
usable life of the Collier County Landfill to be accepted by Patrick
Bishop, CEO; Michelle Du Preez, vice president; and represented by
Jonathan Bartos with Solid and Hazardous Waste Management
Division.
MS. CAPIZZI: Do you want me to hold that for you?
MR. BARTOS: No, it's for the photo.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's recyclable, right? Yeah, it's a
prop.
Would either of you like to say anything at the podium -- it's
your choice -- about the award?
MR. BISHOP: No, we're fine. We really appreciate it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
I'll just say it's -- you know, one of the things that kind of flies
under the radar a little bit here in Collier County is how much our
citizens recycle, but even as important as that is, how hard our county
staff works at education, at making sure that our drop-off points, our
landfills are all operating at a real top capacity.
So it's like one of those things that's invisible to the community
at times and -- but it's happening. And so congratulations for all that
you do and for the unbelievable ranking and numbers and metrics
that we see. And, you know, you don't win awards like that just
because you're, you know, just operating at an average pace. So
much like we have a top-of-the-line Sheriff's Office, there's a lot of
stuff buried in the trenches that a lot of citizens don't hear about.
That takes an awful lot of effort, work, and especially leadership.
So thank you to you and all the people that you represent for
what you're doing for our county and our environment.
(Applause.)
June 27, 2023
Page 16
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE COLLIER COUNTY
CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT AND COMPTROLLER
OFFICE FOR ITS PLACE AS AN INSTRUMENTAL PART OF
THE HISTORY OF COLLIER COUNTY DURING THIS
CENTENNIAL YEAR CELEBRATION. ACCEPTED BY
CRYSTAL KINZEL, COLLIER COUNTY CLERK OF THE
CIRCUIT COURT AND COMPTROLLER - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4C is a proclamation recognizing the
Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Court and Comptroller Office for
its place as an instrumental part of the history of Collier County
during the Centennial Year Celebration to be accepted by Crystal
Kinzel, Collier County Clerk of the Circuit Court and Comptroller.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ms. Kinzel, did you want to -- the
podium's yours, ma'am.
MS. KINZEL: I'll make it quick. I first do want to thank the
county commissioners for the recognition and also the county staff.
Working together on the whole Centennial, it's very exciting for me.
I think it's been exciting. Michelle, who joined me in the
photograph, is actually the instrumental party. We just work on
things together.
But it gave staff an opportunity to really look at the history of
our county and of our organization. And I think it energized them
into what Collier County's all about. So I appreciate the opportunity
to be recognized for that.
Also, I want to let the public know, please go to our website,
June 27, 2023
Page 17
collierclerk.com. We have a whole Centennial button with some
really interesting videos, history, things that the staff put together
about Collier County.
We also have an exhibit over in the courthouse annex of the 100
years of the courthouse. You'll see some great things like how we
picked jurors with bingo machines. A lot of fun stuff.
And over the summer, I plan on having some speakers,
historians. We recognized in a video the Leadership Collier
founders. That video's on our website. And I hope to do that with a
few more people so that we can record their memories and their
history of our county.
So thank you for the proclamation and the opportunity to tell the
public.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a motion
to accept the proclamations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
June 27, 2023
Page 18
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE 2023 FLORIDA WATER
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATION DAVID W. YORK REUSE
SYSTEM OF THE YEAR AWARD (OVER 15MGD). THIS
AWARD IS GIVEN IN RECOGNITION OF OUTSTANDING
WATER REUSE PROGRAMS IN FLORIDA BASED ON
QUALITY MANAGEMENT, WATER REUSE SYSTEM, AND
PUBLIC EDUCATION/INFORMATION ASPECTS OF THE
REUSE SYSTEM. TO BE ACCEPTED BY ROBERT VON
HOLLE, PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT DIVISION
DIRECTOR WASTEWATER – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5A is a presentation of the 2023
Florida Water Environment Association David W. York Reuse
System of the Year Award over 15MGD. This award is given in
recognition of outstanding water reuse programs in Florida based on
quality management, water reuse system, and public education
information aspects of the reuse system to be accepted by Robert von
Holle, Public Utility Department, division director, wastewater.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you want say anything, sir?
It's totally up to you.
MR. HOLLE: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll just add, much like I said about
recycling, you know, the use of water and properly using water and
saving water and all the things that that plaque goes with
is -- sometimes flies under the radar, as we say. But so many things
are being done behind the scenes that put Collier County at such a
high level compared to the rest of the State of Florida, and we're so
June 27, 2023
Page 19
proud of that.
So, gentlemen, thank you, and thank you for the people that
you're here representing that have worked so hard to earn that award.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we're a couple minutes
early, but I think we can go to our 9:30.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think we can.
Item #10A
AN UPDATE FROM SENATE PRESIDENT KATHLEEN
PASSIDOMO REGARDING THE POTENTIAL FOR MATCHING
FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $10 MILLION FROM THE STATE
LEGISLATURE FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONSTRUCTING
ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE NOT FUNDED BY THE
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
CONSTRUCTION GRANT PROGRAM FOR ADULT DAY
HEALTH CARE AND OUTPATIENT THERAPY SERVICES FOR
THE PROPOSED STATE VETERANS’ NURSING HOME
PROJECT - UPDATE GIVEN; MOTION TO DESIGNATE THE
18-ACRE PARCEL AS THE SITE OF THE VETERAN’S
NURSING HOME BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 10A is our 9:30 time-certain. This is
a recommendation to hear an update from Senate President Kathleen
Passidomo regarding the potential for matching funds in the amount
of $10 million from the State Legislature for the purpose of
constructing additional square footage not funded by the United
States Department of Veterans' Affairs Construction Grant Program
for adult day health care and outpatient therapy services for the
proposed State Veterans' Nursing Home Project.
June 27, 2023
Page 20
And I'll hand it to Commissioner Saunders. He's sponsoring
this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, the floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We have some special guests here, and I'm going to ask
Mr. Mullins to come forward to introduce our special guests from the
Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs. We also have the honor of
having our Senate president with us this morning, Senator
Passidomo.
As everyone knows, Senator Passidomo has done an admirable
job as Senate president. She has one more year in that capacity, and
I know she's going to do great things for the State of Florida and,
quite frankly, setting an agenda for the country.
And so on behalf of myself and all of us, I want to thank Senator
Passidomo for being here and for all the great work that she has done
and will do.
I had asked the Board at our last meeting to take $10 million in
additional money from our sales tax fund and put it to a potential use
for developing some facilities in our nursing home -- pardon
me -- that are not funded by the federal or state government. So, for
example, a veterans' facility to provide adult day health care, a
facility to provide rehabilitation. Those types of services can be
funded by the federal Department of Veterans' Affairs, but new
construction for those facilities cannot be.
And so the request of the Commission at that time was to add
$10 million for the construction of those types of facilities at our
veterans' nursing home.
I met with Senator Passidomo, and she agreed to consider that,
and I think she has some comments for us this morning concerning
that, and that's why we're here to this particular item.
We do have several other issues involved in that, and one of
June 27, 2023
Page 21
them being the movement of the nursing home to the 18 acres.
That's actually a separate agenda item, but I think we're going to be
discussing that this morning as well.
So perhaps this would be an appropriate time for Mr. Mullins to
introduce our special guest, and then we'll proceed from there, if
that's acceptable, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
MR. MULLINS: For the record, John Mullins, your director of
Communications, Government, and Public Affairs. And I also want
to provide my thanks to Senate President Kathleen Passidomo.
This year I want to say she almost single-handedly delivered
over $14 million worth of project appropriation request funding for
Collier County projects. It's with her backing in the Senate that we
were able to accomplish so much this year, and we're looking
forward to great things next year as well, hopefully.
SENATE PRESIDENT PASSIDOMO: Great.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Nice job, John. Way to get that in
there.
MR. MULHERE: But we're also very pleased today to have
joining us from the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs Deputy
Executive Director Bob Asztalos and Chief of Staff Al Carter. And I
would say probably after President Passidomo's comment, if they
would like to come up and say a few words, that would be
appropriate if the Board would like to hear from them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think, Mr. Chairman, if we
could hear from Senator Passidomo, Senate President Passidomo, on
the issue of the potential for some matching funds, then hear from our
guest from the Department of Veterans' Affairs, I think that would be
really appropriate.
And also, I know all five of us are in agreement about moving
June 27, 2023
Page 22
the veterans' nursing home to the 18 acres, and I also understand that
Bob and Al are going to take a little tour of that 18 acres. And so we
can kind of combine that with this issue on the $10 million. At some
point I'll make a motion to do just that.
So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask Senate President
Passidomo to tell us --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, Mr. Miller, just as a
reminder, the senator has unlimited time. No lights, please. No
lights.
MR. MILLER: I wasn't going there.
SENATE PRESIDENT PASSIDOMO: No, no, no. I will tell
you, though, don't ever say that to a politician. In Tallahassee, the
two biggest lies are -- "it's a part-time job" is number one, and
number two is when somebody comes up to the podium and says,
"I'll be brief," you might as well just put your pajamas on, your
slippers, and take a nap.
But I do want to be brief because Bob's got some really -- we
were speaking this morning about the vision for the center and
moving forward in the future. This is not your World War II veteran
program anymore.
But first of all, I want to say that I've been involved in this with
Commissioner Saunders for -- you know, I was in the House when
we started this. So that's, you know, over, you know, almost eight
years ago. And the vision that the Commission, and, in particular,
Commissioner Saunders, provided to me just made such a big
difference.
And so when I'm up in Tallahassee and we're talking about what
we're going to do in Collier County, it reverberates because it's
forward thinking. And it's funny too -- and I'm saying this because
it's kind of humorous. When we originally were looking at it, we
had a site. Unfortunately, it was kind of far out, and it wasn't near a
June 27, 2023
Page 23
whole lot of services at the time. Today it's probably the middle of
town, but eight years ago it wasn't.
And I remember when I looked at the Golden Gate site, I said,
this is perfect, because you've got a hospital up the road. You've got
the veterans' favorite restaurant, Cracker Barrel, down the street.
You have a shopping center. You-all did a yeoman's job in selecting
that property, and I think that made a big, big difference.
So my commitment is to help you with the funding. I think,
you know, when you came forward with the $30 million, that was a
game changer for Collier County. Ocala took a step back, and so
we're moving forward. And I know Bob's going to talk a little bit
about where we're going.
We're going to try to work together with a funding request this
year. I think it's a good time -- good timing, and I'll do whatever I
can to help, because I think this will be -- we have so many veterans
in Collier County, and they're moving to the state more and more.
One thing I do want to mention, too, is my initiative this
year -- as you know, I did Live Local as my number one priority this
past year. My next session, we're going to be living healthy. So
Live Healthy is our initiative.
And one of our -- one of the things -- the biggest issue that we're
going to have with this veterans' facility is staffing and the like. So
our number one priority is going to be how do we attract more and
more healthcare providers, whether it be doctors, nurses, companies,
hospital workers. From soup to nuts, we're working on that this
summer to pass some legislation to attract healthcare workers to the
state, and we're looking at all kinds of different ways of doing that.
And so that, coupled with the workforce housing, which you
would have near this facility, is going to make this veterans facility
probably one of the best in the country.
So I want to thank you for your vision, and I will do whatever I
June 27, 2023
Page 24
can to see it to fruition. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And, Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- I guess, let me do this to
kind of set the table for some comments from the Department of
Veterans' Affairs. I'd like to make a motion that we officially
designate that 18-acre parcel as the site of the veterans' nursing home
as opposed to the 12-acre site that was first designated. So I'll make
that as a motion, and then I think that will set the table for some
comments from our guests.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion and a
second.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I do have a registered
public speaker on this item, 10A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Jackie Keay.
My apologies. I should have spoke up sooner.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, that's fine.
Hi. Good morning.
MS. KEAY: Good morning. I'm Jackie Keay. Most of you
know me. So good morning.
I'm a veteran, and I'm the new director for the Journey Home.
We're building a relationship-based organization here, and the focus
is on connecting veterans to their community. As we know, veterans
in Collier County alone, only 24 percent of eligible veterans access
VA care. So access to care isn't a problem. The problem is there's a
gap in between those services, and I feel like, as a veteran, we are
June 27, 2023
Page 25
indoctrinated when we join the military. Your family, your parents,
they're no longer your family. Your family is the military. Your
family is your buddy. Your family is that person in the trench, in the
foxhole next to you.
But the problem is when we exit the military, no one tells us
how to reintegrate into our community. So oftentimes veterans are
vulnerable, and they are feeling isolated.
So whatever you-all do with this project, ensure that veterans
who -- the vision, they look like me, they have brown skin, they are
females, many of them suffering from PTSD as well as military
sexual trauma on so many issues. So when we talk about outpatient
services, those type of services should be included as well.
I see another major gap with those suffering with alcohol
dependence, drug dependency. There's nowhere for them to go
besides jail. They won't find therapy there. So I would like to ask
you-all to consider putting in an outpatient therapy service for those
suffering from those issues.
And, again, we know that the most important thing that veterans
need is to be around other veterans to heal. They're not going to find
healing in other institutions; however, the caveat to that is the
veterans need to be integrated into their community, so that's part of
our mission is integrating veterans with their community.
So thank you all very much. This is a very important
undertaking. I feel like -- think about the veterans, focus on veterans
first. And the one thing I love about our country and our
community, we will disagree on many things politically, but I have
yet to see a community member who does not want to honor and, you
know, show respect and love to veterans.
So thank you all very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
(Applause.)
June 27, 2023
Page 26
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. So we've got a motion
and a second that everybody's going to support, I assume. Why don't
we call for the vote on that and then I'll ask --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So with that, I'd like to ask
our guests from the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs -- I know
you're going to be taking a tour. We're going to be looking at -- by
moving this to the 18 acres, that's going to create an opportunity to do
everything on one floor, and so the additional 10 million from the
Collier County and potentially the 10 million from the State, with that
additional $20 million, we should be able to build a first-class nursing
home with all of the other amenities, the adult day health care, the
rehabilitation services, provide a separate entrance, if necessary, for
those types of services, and do other things as has been indicated by
the previous speaker that might be necessary for the benefit of the
veterans. We'll have a little bit of a campus atmosphere there, and I
think that's going to be a wonderful thing.
And I appreciate you being here. I look forward to your
comments.
MR. ASZTALOS: Thank you, Senator, and thank you,
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. I'm Bob Asztalos, the Deputy
June 27, 2023
Page 27
Executive Director of the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs.
I have Al Carter with me. Al Carter's our chief of staff, and he
is the person who really shepherded our last nursing homes that were
built around the state.
I don't even want to call this a state veteran nursing home. This
is really going to be a long-term care community. This is going to
be a model for the country, and we're very excited about partnering
with you.
We've talked about this in the last meeting, so I'm not going to
go through all the details. Just one point, though, I do want to make.
Jackie brought up a very good point. As we build this -- this
community, we have to look at who is going to be our clients, right.
It's not the World War II generation. It's not the Korean War. It
will be some of the Vietnam War, but it's that next generation. It's
the 911 veterans who need more rehab services. They have
prosthetics. They have wounds.
Women veterans. Women veterans, we have one of the highest
populations of women veterans in the country, 162,000. We are
going to see more women veterans coming into our homes, so we
have to have services that meet their needs, and that's what we're
looking to do.
And so -- so this is an exciting program. Again, it's not even a
state veteran nursing home. It is a state veteran long-term care
community, and we're excited about it.
Just to give you-all an update, since we last talked at the last
commission meeting, so under the leadership of President Passidomo,
the legislature did pass $500,000 for us to start doing the site project.
We have a meeting tomorrow. In fact, when I get back with the
Department of Management Services to start talking about them,
us -- FDV has got a contract with them, and then they are going to
put out a bid for an architect and all the site work to be done. So
June 27, 2023
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we're looking to move forward on that.
We are looking to propose a legislative budget request so that
we have the money to move forward with the grant request. We are
still shooting for April to get our grant request in to the federal
government so that we can get -- draw down the federal match and
move forward on this project.
So we're excited about the partnership. I think the -- the
moving to the 18 acres really does move this along, because we had
some concerns about trying to put all these great services in the
smaller site, but I think moving to this larger parcel, that really takes
us over that speed bump, and I think we're going to be able to move
ahead in a great partnership here for the veterans down in this area.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. ASZTALOS: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I think the -- I guess the
message to our staff is to make sure that everybody's working
diligently with the Department of Veterans' Affairs and with Senate
President Passidomo and with our lobbyist to make all of this come
together, the $10 million from the state, and also the preparation of
the site, designation of the site.
Mr. Chairman, the other issue involves the golf course, which is
really not an issue for our visitors from the Department of Veterans'
Affairs or for Senator Passidomo. I would like to move into that
when we're finished with this particular item. I think we -- I think
we are at this point.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One thing I would just like to add,
you know, on behalf of all of us, Senator, thank you so much for
being here. You're always accessible, you know, to us, and it's great
that you live in Collier County, so it makes it a little bit easy. But I
June 27, 2023
Page 29
think no matter where you lived, you're that -- you have that level of
accessibility to everybody across the state.
And so we are lucky to have you as a local citizen, but more
importantly, we're lucky to have you in Tallahassee. When we went
up to Tallahassee, we had a few moments with Senator Passidomo,
and her dedication and also understanding of moving parts is at light
speed, and so that's very helpful to us.
As a veteran myself, I also -- and maybe it's part of military
protocol -- I have to give a shout-out to General "Hammer" Hartsell,
if he's listening. He's a Marine Corps two-star and outranks me by a
lot. Outranks Commissioner Kowal by a lot, but he's also been
extremely accessible to all of us and is part of this team as well.
So this is truly a team effort. We have so much opportunity on
the table, and one of the things that we've sort of coined here is we
never wanted the next nursing home. We wanted the best one. And
so we are moving forward and committed and dedicated, and
together, as a team, this is going to be a veterans' nursing home that's
going to be a benchmark.
And shovels won't go in the ground tomorrow. We commonly
hear from, you know, citizens, why isn't it being built immediately?
There's a lot of moving parts, but in order to do it right, you have to
measure twice and cut once. So nobody's stalling on anything. I
think we've only had even more opportunity and more good news and
now a bigger site and more square footage to work with, which was
always a concern.
So I think all of us here are excited to lead from our side here in
Collier County. And, you know, we'll push as hard as you-all can
pull, and it's going to be a great day when maybe our replacements
are all out there cutting ribbon, who knows, but it's going to be an
incredible home with in-patient and out-patient things, and a lot of
services that don't exist anywhere else but will in future homes
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because we/you have all set that benchmark for us.
So thank you very much for your leadership. It's much
appreciated and highly respected.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, really. Thank
you.
I think Mr. Mullins is going to be guiding the tour.
MR. MULLINS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Great.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The Sheriff also said that you-all
were double parked outside. So I'm sorry; that's nothing we can
control. He doesn't fall under us.
Thank you again, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
Item #10B
BOARD DIRECT STAFF TO EVALUATE MOVING THE
PROPOSED LOCATION OF THE STATE VETERANS’
NURSING HOME FROM THE NORTHWEST PARCEL OF THE
GOLDEN GATE GOLF COURSE SITE TO THE 18-ACRE
LOCATION ORIGINALLY PROPOSED FOR DEVELOPMENT
OF THE BIG SHOTS ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEX, TO WORK
WITH FIRST TEE OF NAPLES TO CONTINUE TO ENSURE
THEIR DEVELOPMENT NEEDS ARE MET, AND TO
DETERMINE IF A PUBLIC GOLF COURSE CAN BE DESIGNED
COMPLEMENTING THESE CHANGES – MOTION TO
APPROVE W/CHANGES, TO INCLUDE UPDATES CREATED
DURING ITEM #10A; MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
June 27, 2023
Page 31
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The next item is the issue
dealing with the golf course. And I can tell you, there's no one in the
room that's more disappointed than I am that BigShots canceled their
lease. None of us could have foreseen that, I believe, TopGolf is
buying BigShots and TopGolf doesn't want a competitor this close,
and so they've canceled the deal. And, quite frankly, the folks at
ClubCorp and BigShots really just weren't communicating with us.
They weren't really honest with us as to what was really going on.
As late as April, they were in here talking about financing, and we all
knew that that was probably not the case.
So, anyway, moving forward, I've shown this property to two
major golf course developers, operators, and owners, and they've all
said -- both of them have said without any hesitation that this
remaining property, putting the 12 acres back into the property -- and
that was a location where there were two holes of golf there, putting
that property back into this golf course. They can do a golf course.
That's not a problem; they can do a driving range, most importantly,
provide the facilities needed for First Tee and a little practice green, a
little clubhouse, and a restaurant. All of that can still go on this
property. And, quite frankly, that is the best use of that property for
our community.
I want to read some excerpts from a letter that we received from
Reinhold Schmieding with Arthrex. So I think it really tells the
whole story, because this is not just a golf course for the Golden Gate
community. It's in that community, but this is a golf course for all of
the citizens in Collier County that perhaps aren't able to afford going
to one of these clubs or one of the other private clubs in the county.
But Reinhold Schmieding says, on behalf of Arthrex and over
4,000 employees and their families in Collier County, we would like
to advise our county government leadership of the importance of
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having a public golf course for our local families and children. In
addition to the many benefits the game of golf affords people of all
ages, this golf course will play a significant role in helping recruit
and retain employees and their families to overcome the enormous
challenges companies like Arthrex face to maintain our presence in
Collier County due to skyrocketing real estate prices, high cost of
living, lack of affordable housing for employees, and climate
challenges.
The First Tee has been a great attraction and retention. And
this is really the most important part of this letter. The First Tee has
been a great attraction and retention benefit for families who live and
work in Collier County. The First Tee affiliated golf course will also
make a huge statement that our county is interested in welcoming
families and providing more access to the game of golf, especially for
those who lack the financial resources to play in Collier County.
Arthrex has invested over $2 million in the First Tee, as
cofounder and primary sponsor, for over 15 years and has committed
over $1 million to the First Tee Academy headquarters building
project in Collier County. The County not investing in the adjacent
12-hole public golf course will jeopardize the entire project.
Please support First Tee and its need for a 12-hole public golf
course and practice area for all children and their families in Collier
County.
I know we have with us Cindy Darland with First Tee, and she,
I'm sure, is going to have a few comments to make.
Collier County has been looking at acquiring and developing a
golf course for our community, literally, for the last 30 or 40 years.
This is really the best opportunity if we're going to have public golf.
And as I said, I've talked to golf course operators. They've said that
giving Collier County residents a deep discount, 40 or 50 percent in
the cost of a round of golf with Collier residents able to make
June 27, 2023
Page 33
reservations just as well as anybody else who's paying a higher price,
this course could be very -- it would be very profitable for a
professional operator.
It won't be profitable if Collier County tries to operate it, but it
will be very profitable if we have a professional group and we give
them the right incentives to operate and develop this golf course.
And so, Mr. Chairman, at some point in this discussion, I'm
going to make a motion that we direct staff to continue the efforts to
develop this 12-hole golf course, which would include making sure
that the proper zoning's in place, the proper land is in place, and that
we continue with the efforts to design this course, which efforts have
been ongoing.
I know there's going to be some comments, but that will be my
motion at some point, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, I show -- do you have
public comment?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We have two registered speakers.
Your first speaker is Cindy Darland, and she'll be followed by David
Bumpous.
MS. DARLAND: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning.
MS. DARLAND: First of all, I want to thank each and every
one of you for taking the time to visit with me in the last few days in
regards to moving forward with the 12-hole golf course.
Collier County does need a public golf course for its taxpayers
in addition to First Tee. Your commitment to continue to invest the
$7 million into the golf course shows you are invested in our
community and truly care about our full-time residents as well as
tourists who visit Collier County every year.
First Tee is excited to continue to work with you as we build our
learning center next to Collier County's first 12-hole public golf
June 27, 2023
Page 34
course.
Thank you for your consideration.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is David
Bumpous.
MR. BUMPOUS: Good morning, Commissioners, staff. It's
always a pleasure to be here with you.
I can, obviously, keep my comments pretty brief based on the
actions of the Board this morning. But I do want to echo
Mr. Schmieding's sentiments and the appreciation of all that you're
doing and also as a citizen and a father. I have two children who
have grown up not only learning to love golf, more importantly,
learning the values that golf really teaches, and that's been through
the First Tee and Ms. Darling's tireless efforts and work that's been
put into that program. And, quite frankly, we need that in this world
and in this community more than ever today is those values that are
taught through that program.
So thank you on behalf of myself and on behalf of
Mr. Schmieding and the thousands of employees that reside here.
We appreciate what you're doing. And, quite frankly, thank you for
what you're doing for the veterans as well. I'm a son and grandson
of two veterans, so thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks, David.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, Mr. Chairman, I'd like
to make a motion, so we can get this on the floor for discussion, that
we direct our staff to continue the efforts to develop this 12-hole golf
course at the Golden Gate Golf Course; that they take all the steps
necessary to move this along, which includes completing the design,
completing the zoning issues, and making sure that the parcels that
June 27, 2023
Page 35
are necessary are included.
Mr. Chairman, I've been -- you know, we all have projects that
we work on, and this is one that I've been working on for a number of
years. When I got elected to the County Commission, my goal was
to help improve the Golden Gate community. That included
purchasing or acquiring their water and sewer services, creating a
zoning overlay to help improve the commercial district, creating a
taxing district with no tax increase to help fund needed infrastructure
to deal with flooding, and other things like that.
This is just one big piece of that puzzle, and I'm asking for
support from the Commission to make this a reality. It's very
important to me personally, and I do appreciate any support that I've
got from the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You've got some comments from
our colleagues. Commissioner Hall and then, Commissioner
McDaniel, you're on deck, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to make -- you know, the public may be sitting here,
why is the County pushing for another golf course? I mean, there's
80 golf courses in this place, but there's not 80 public golf courses.
Coming here from another place -- I've been here nine years. I
still have sticker shock for what it costs to play golf here. And it's
not just like you can just go anywhere and play where you want to
play. You have to be invited. So to have a quality public course is
something that's just -- I think it's -- I think it's highly important. It's
time for that. And it's going to be 12 holes. It's not going to be 18.
And because of that, I want to encourage whoever we get to
design this place to make this place special, not to make it so hard
that nobody enjoys it, but to make it special. And I think that we can
do that. And I just -- you know, as we direct staff, I want to
encourage us not to drag this out forever and forever and forever.
June 27, 2023
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As a businessman, I say that we make some choices and get some
things moving and get some dirt moving and get some greens made
and get some kids on the course and some families on the course, and
I will be a champion of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. We -- I don't know.
Commissioner Saunders, did you make a motion, or are we just
discussing all --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I made the motion to get the
item on the floor for discussion, so there is a motion on the floor.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. Well, I'm going to
say this out loud. I'm totally in support of what we're doing with the
veterans' nursing home, totally in support of that, totally in support of
First Tee and what they do for our -- or for our community, totally
not in support of spending that $7 million that was originally
appropriated for the loan to the ClubCorp folks for this 12-hole golf
course.
I am totally in support -- we already own the land. I'm totally
in support of bringing the property forward, offering it up to a
developer for a public golf course with a reduced rate for our
residents, totally in support of a long-term lease. If Cindy wants a
200-year lease, we'll give them a 200-year lease on the property. I
don't want them to ever have to look back, and for the First Tee to
have a home.
But, you know, we had a budget workshop here a week or two
ago. Ten-and-a-half million dollars of unfunded requests that were
appropriated in that budget workshop. Granted, eight and a half of
that was one particular development or project with Water and Sewer
over west of Goodlette Road. But before we make a commitment on
the expenditure of that $7 million right now, I would prefer we set
June 27, 2023
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that aside.
We have commitments, Commissioner Saunders. You've
already made commitments with regard to the remediation, the
zoning. That needs to be done. That needed to be done when we
bought the property.
Those things need to be fulfilled, need to be kept up, but I -- I
can't support moving forward with the County constructing a 12-hole
golf course at this time. I just -- I can't support that. All the other
things I'm totally -- I'm totally in concert with what you're looking to
do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was going to say something, but
I'll hear from -- Commissioner Hall, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, you know, I'm listening. So
we don't -- do we have choices with that property? We don't have to
gift it? What's the options if we don't?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't think we're asking
for -- I don't know. I mean --
COMMISSIONER HALL: You mentioned the 7 million, so I
was just kind -- I was just curious that maybe --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Maybe I could elaborate on
that. On the 18 acres, we are going to deed that to the federal
government for the nursing home. That's an absolute requirement.
The rest of the property we will own. The golf course will be part of
the Collier County Parks and Recreation Department. It will be
owned by Collier County.
It's a Jack Nicklaus-designed course, so it will meet the
standards, Commissioner Hall, that you said in terms of a quality golf
course. Jack Nicklaus has several of these 12-hole golf courses.
And one of the gentlemen I spoke to that develops golf courses
indicated that he had just developed a 12-hole golf course out in
June 27, 2023
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Oregon that was hugely successful and that he knew this would be
hugely successful.
So it will be well designed. It will meet the standards that
you're talking about. It will be owned by Collier County. It's part
of our park system, but it will be operated -- assuming the Board goes
along with this, it will be operated by a professional operator, like
ClubCorp. There are plenty of companies that do the same type of
work. So it will be a professionally run golf course.
And just so the Board knows -- because there was a comment
that Commissioner McDaniel made that he was okay with loaning the
$7 million. This was never -- this was never a loan. The RFP that
went out and the commitment that the County made was that the
County would pay for the development of the golf course, the
$7 million to develop a golf course. And the rationale for the
County paying for it, simply, is it's our golf course. It's our property.
It's our golf course.
And ClubCorp and BigShots, they were going to be the
professional operator of it along with the BigShots facility. The only
thing that's changing, the only thing that's changing is there won't be
a BigShots facility.
And, quite frankly, I think we now have a better project. I
think -- having a professionally run golf course still designed by Jack
Nicklaus and moving the veterans' nursing home, I think we now
have a better project for that.
I was disappointed when BigShots fell away, but as soon as I
heard that there was a problem, the wheels started turning in terms of
how do we make lemonade out of these lemons, and I think we've
done that. Moving the nursing home and developing this the way
we're looking at it I think is better for the community in the long run,
and that's why I'm moving this forward. So it was never a loan. It
was always a $7 million investment in our own parks.
June 27, 2023
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And I'll tell you, we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on our
parks. I mean, I'm not sure how much we spent on the Big
Corkscrew Park. That's probably, what, a $120 million park by the
time we finished. And so this is not an unusual request.
And I, again, ask the Board for support on it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I mean, there again, I'm not
going to argue the point one way or the other. I was told it was a
loan. It was originally a subordination agreement to ClubCorp with
regard to the lease on the property, and then we found out that we
couldn't subordinate it, and then this came forward. Again, you
can -- this is what I -- I'm sharing with you what I was told. I'm not
making this up.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But you did vote on the RFP
to go out that had a $7 million commitment. So I understand what
you're saying. It may have been --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I didn't --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's always been the case.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just as a correction, I didn't
support the investment of the county money into this golf course at
all. I have supported the acquisition of it. I supported the
utilization of the property for the veterans' nursing home. I
supported the utilization for First Tee, but not the construction of the
golf course. That's where I stopped.
We have right-of-way that we acquired when we bought this
piece of property for 28, $29 million for the six-laning of 951. And
I -- again, I think more fact-finding needs to be accomplished before
we make the expenditure for the construction of a golf course.
Putting the property up that we already own to a private
developer and operator, having it be part of our Parks and Rec
system, I can see that. Meeting the commitments that we needed to
June 27, 2023
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do to fulfill the remediation and things, I can see to do that.
Supporting the First Tee, all the way, I can see to do that, but not
expending the money for the golf course.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, I'm new to this game, but I kind of look from the outside
and kind of watch everybody and what they're doing. And I look at
history, and I -- and, you know, as a county government, we do have
responsibilities to our citizens. We provide parks. We provide
pools. And we -- you know, this county spent a lot of money in the
20 years I've lived here on the parks we provide for our citizens.
And I look at some of the numbers at some of these parks that
we spend money on, and I don't know what we get in return other
than just the satisfaction that we provide them. And we can provide
them for our citizens, and we should to a point.
And -- but then I look at the golf course and I'm thinking, this is
just another arm of our Parks and Recs. You know, this is
something that we provide to our citizens. It's something else they
can use as a family. And I think we would make some revenue off
of this in return for a very, very smaller investment than what we've
already invested in some of these parks we have out there now.
I mean -- and I don't -- I sat here in a meeting a few months
back. And, you know, Paradise Sports Park telling me the numbers
and showing me the numbers and telling me how they lose money on
their food truck and, you know, how we going to fix that and this and
that? And I know that price tag was well over 150-some-million
dollars, and it's still counting.
So I look at providing another public place for our citizens to
enjoy with their families that don't really have that big of an
investment that may make a little revenue back to the County and
using that property for, you know -- in that way. You know, I'm
June 27, 2023
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kind of looking at a common sense thing. Where do I want to spend
the other money we were going to spend on something else? I think
this may be an investment. So I was just going to tell you how I feel
about it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll make a comment here.
I know it's no secret. I've said it at this microphone before well
before I was a Chair, just as a newly-elected official. I don't know
that I would have ever voted for the sports complex. I don't know if
I was sitting here I would have voted for the -- to use taxpayer dollars
to buy the golf course, but that's ancient history. And so we're
sitting here now.
And so I've also gone on the record saying, even if I disagreed
with something that happened, you know, years prior or predated me,
it's all about the here and now. And it's about making it successful
because it's been decided.
I look at that piece of property maybe more strategically or more
holistically. We could sit here and debate, you know, the -- a county
golf course and falling under Parks and Rec, but I'm looking at the
entire footprint. I look at what First Tee is bringing to the table and
how this golf course complements what they are already moving
forward at a very aggressive positive pace. And even the veterans'
nursing home. You know, this might be a small thing, but veterans
looking out the window and seeing a beautifully landscaped golf
course instead of maybe, you know, something different.
And so I don't think we're putting a shovel in the ground today.
There's a motion to make some very definitive decisions. But I look
back on it more holistically at the entire project, and I think it's a
cohesive project with what First Tee is doing, and I support a
thousand percent what First Tee's doing, as we've all said up here.
But I think the golf course moving forward, we could have -- we
June 27, 2023
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could do some would have, could have, should haves, but what we
are right here today, I really feel strongly in support of that cohesive
course and First Tee being more of a partnership and then the
aesthetics of that footprint and what it will look like in the end when
all the ribbons are cut and everything's done. Is that going to be a
huge positive for the community and really an investment? And I
feel it is. And so, you know, I support Commissioner Saunders'
motion, you know, to move forward. We're not going to do it in a
vacuum.
And was I disappointed that BigShots dropped out? Yeah, I
share in the disappointment, but you know what? They hadn't put a
shovel in the ground. They hadn't done anything.
So I sort of echo what's being said up here, the positive
comments anyway, is that maybe BigShots saying, you know, hey,
we're pulling out; we're not interested, is maybe one step back, but I
think this is an incredible opportunity that takes 10 steps forward.
We've already passed a motion that gives a bigger footprint to the
veterans' nursing home, which we all support, so that was a positive.
So, you know, BigShots is maybe ancient history. And that's
how business works. People are in, they're out, they're in, they're
out. And, you know, they hadn't done anything other than some
analysis. But I think when I look at all the projects combined, and
even the affordable, you know, housing project and how all that fits
into the footprint, I think, the golf course is a major piece of the
cohesion and the aesthetics and the citizen services that would be
brought to that footprint.
So, you know, I certainly support it strongly and have, you
know, minimal reservations. You know, we're going to keep our eye
on the ball, and we're not here rubber stamping anything and moving
forward regardless of any concerns. So some of the concerns up
here definitely do have merit, but I think there's more opportunity
June 27, 2023
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here than significant concern at this point. So I definitely support
the motion.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I just -- if your
motion is to continue on with the expenditure of the 7 million, it's
going to force me into voting against this, and I'm not against it in its
entirety.
If your motion is to move forward with the exploration and
utilization of the balance of the land for the golf course, to continue
on with First Tee and secure a long-term home for First Tee, those
sort of things, then I can totally support it. But the investment into
the construction of the golf course, I can't support.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, the motion
contemplates the fact that we have funds available to build the golf
course, and so I'm not going to change the motion. I appreciate the
potential support, and I think it's important. I think it would have
been nice to have a 5-0 vote, but that doesn't always happen. And a
4-1 vote on this -- it sounds like we've got good support for this -- is
okay by me. But I can't change the motion to remove the fact that
we have $7 million set aside for this project. That's part of the
motion is to move forward with this project. So, no, I'm not going to
change the motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My final comment is, again,
we're in the beginning stages of our budget process. We have 10 and
a half million dollars of unfunded requests for Parks and Rec, for
maintenance, for zoning, for things that are very, very necessary for
our community. And until -- until those things are actually taken
care of in a satisfactory manner, I think it's prudent for us to explore
the utilization of this property as a golf course, putting it up for
someone else to develop it and manage it and operate it. And I think
June 27, 2023
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you -- well, anyway, that's what I would prefer we do. So I can't
support it if it's continuing with that expenditure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What's the possibilities of
public/private partnership with somebody privately joining in? I
guess I understood it -- I understand it now. I thought the 7 million
was the value of the land that we were allowing for the golf course.
Now I understand that it's the -- 7 million is in addition to the land to
actually construct it.
If we -- in staff direction, is there a possibility that we could do
private/public partnership where somebody that privately welcomes
in and puts in, you know, a portion -- a small portion, a large portion,
or whatever portion, towards that 7 million to construct the golf
course? I don't know how that deal would work, but I'm just asking
the question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think that the problem
is -- and we -- just for a little bit of the history, we did a request for
proposals where we asked a developer to come in and build a golf
course. It would be owned by the County, but a developer would
come in and pay for it and build it.
We got two responses. ClubCorp was one of the responses.
And before we could ink any deal with them, they said, no, we can't
do this. We can't make a golf course work where we have to build
the golf course and operate it but also give a discount to county
residents of 40 or 50 percent. The numbers will not work.
So rolling the clock forward -- so we did -- we did a second
request for proposals. In the second request for proposals, we said,
okay, the County will build the golf course, pay for the $7 million to
build the golf course. The County will own the golf course and will
have it operated by ClubCorp or whoever bids. ClubCorp bid on it,
June 27, 2023
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and they were proceeding.
They did an analysis of the course, and they are determined that
this course would be very profitable if operated properly but only if
the County continued to fund the construction of the course.
Because you put that 7 or $8 million into the construction cost, and
then you have a 50 or 40 percent discount for county residents, the
numbers don't work for a private developer.
So that's why we came back and said, okay, the County will pay
for the course. We'll build -- we'll have it professionally designed,
we'll pay for the construction of it, and we'll have an operator, and
we'll share in the revenue.
So to answer your question, I think that, having some sort of a
sharing, might very well be possible, but I think -- I think we need to
just move this on today. I know that we can't go to a private
owner -- a private developer and say, okay, we want you to build a
golf course. We want to own the golf course. The County will own
the golf course, but we want you to pay for it, and, oh, by the way,
we want our residents to have a 50 percent reduction in the cost for
playing golf, because the numbers won't work.
So in order for this to work, to have a quality golf course,
professionally run, we're going to have to pay for the golf course.
The other alternative is to simply sell the land and have a private
developer come in and build a golf course, but it won't be a county
golf course, and there won't be reduced rates for First Tee and for
county residents, because it just simply doesn't work.
So that's why I'm asking the Board to move forward with what
we had already planned. We have a better project now, one that I
think all of us will be very proud of when we start breaking ground
on some of these things, the workforce housing, the veterans thing,
the golf course. These are going to all be tremendous assets.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
June 27, 2023
Page 46
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I'm not going to vote
for the motion, and I want you to hear me. Cindy, I'm looking at
you. I'm not in opposition or support of First Tee.
I think there are alternatives that can, in fact, be done. I don't
know that we have to build a 12- or a 9-hole golf course. I think we
could build a really nice practice facility for the kids to play on. We
could build three holes if we're going to do something different, a Par
3, a Par 4, and a Par 5, and the kids can still learn all the aspects of
golf and do what they need to do, and we don't need to spend the
money that we have with -- at this particular point in time.
Again, if a study's done, a public/private partnership is done, we
already own the land, we maneuver things around to be able to
facilitate the utilization of the land with a developer to build a golf
course, 9 or 12 or anything -- something along those lines, then we
can account for it at that time.
But today the expenditure of those funds were -- especially
while we're in the infancy stages of the establishment of this new
budget where we've already been told that we're 10 and a half million
dollars shy of unfunded requests -- and I'm sure there's probably more
in the corners, as Leo Oakes used to like to say -- I can't support
the -- I can't support the motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Listen, I don't want to open up a
can of worms here, but I'm going to make a couple of statements.
I look at this as not an expense but more of an investment, and it
reminds me of affordable housing discussions that we've had up here.
Okay. Wow. I've got a twin. I just heard myself.
It reminds me of some of the affordable housing discussions
we've had up here where -- like, for instance, on this piece of
property, one of the reasons why the affordable housing building that
is going to be almost 400 units -- if I'm correct, 374 -- the reason why
it's able to be 100 percent affordable, which is almost unheard of, is
June 27, 2023
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because the County owns the land and is donating it or, you know,
we're utilizing that county investment.
We've got philanthropic organizations like the Collier
Community Foundation and others who are, you know, pledging
10 million or more money. So then you have a developer that comes
in that doesn't have that expense and is able to, then, put everything
they have into the final piece and, you know, be able to affordably do
it. As developers tell us all the time, you know, they're not
not-for-profit, so they're not going to build something that's going to
be a huge loss. They're going to walk away.
And that's why this truly will be one of the few, or maybe only,
100 percent affordable housing pieces. I mean, two weeks ago when
we were here and we were voting on The Haven and some citizens
were saying, oh, well, we'd accept 100 percent affordable housing,
although I respected their opinion, the reason why that's not realistic
is no contractor can come in and pay for everything on their own and
make it 100 percent affordable. And if a contractor says they can do
that, you're not going to like the way it looks.
And so, you know, part of our leadership to protect that
community was to say, yeah, that's a great idea, but maybe hidden
within that, you know, make it 100 percent affordable, is then the
contractor walks away and you get nothing, and then you preserve
that undeveloped property.
Not to get off track, but here I really look at this as, like I said in
the beginning is, it allows us to attract something that is going to be a
huge advantage to the community. It's going to be complementary
to First Tee, and it's more of a cohesive strategic piece of a larger
parcel of land.
So I think if we, you know, back off this late in the game and
sort of, you know, start to move backwards, I think in the end we get
a whole lot of nothing. I don't think you're going to attract, like you
June 27, 2023
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said, a lot of interest when we ask somebody to come in and, you
know, build it all from scratch, absorb all the cost, and then, oh, by
the way, here's all the extra we want with it. You're going to get a
whole lot of nothing.
So, I mean, not to be disrespectful to anybody up here, but, you
know, if you're concerned about spending money that is an
investment or not, I mean, I think this $7 million is a much better
investment for our community than the 15 million we gifted Great
Wolf Lodge, which I voted against.
So I think it does all matter. And if you're going to make
cohesive votes up here, you know, you've got to make, you know,
uniform votes.
And I think this gives way back more to the community. And
I'm not saying Great Wolf Lodge isn't going to be great and
wonderful and everything. I just didn't agree with giving them a
$15 million Christmas gift which may be -- you know, I know
sometimes it's different colors of money, but if you're going to throw
up the unfunded list -- and I respect what you're saying, but I think
nobody up here is going to let that unfunded list go unfunded. You
know, we already have a very aggressive approach to figure out what
to do.
But trading the unfunded list for the golf course and sort of
connecting those two dots is, I think, is a bit unfair because then, like
I said, I would sit here and say, wow, maybe we could have used
15 million for the unfunded list instead of helping to build Great
Wolf Lodge, which certainly could afford building their own facility.
But that said, I have no reservations. I think this is a cohesive
project that helps First Tee continue to move forward, and they're
bringing a lot to the table. I think backing off now sends the wrong
signal to our community, to our Parks and Rec leadership, and to all
the folks that are putting pieces onto this tract of land to make it
June 27, 2023
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collectively a hugely successful, aesthetically pleasing, wonderful
addition to our community.
So there will always be parts and pieces that maybe
our -- require analysis, but I feel like, you know, we'll be doing all
those things. So I look at it as an investment, and we certainly have
spent money in areas of this county that I think gave us much less of
a -- you know, much less of a return on investment, you know, to our
citizens than this, and I think this one is a very high return on
investment if done properly, and we will ensure that it is. So I do
support it.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just as an aside,
Commissioner Kowal, you know, we've had enormous overruns on
Paradise Coast, but that instrument was supported with a tax increase
for the TDT, the tourist development tax, and funded that -- the
majority of that debt. There was an appropriation for $2 million out
of ad valorem for the upkeep and maintenance, and we've had
overruns on that. I'm not just taking away from those things.
But I'm just -- and, again, you know, you brought in the Great
Wolf investment, talk about investments with a three-year payback, if
the economy holds and everything goes, and an eight-year return of
that $15 million if they file bankruptcy and we -- because we always
get our ad valorem tax collection. That always comes to the County.
And it's an eight-year return in the event that that changes.
I have been consistent here. I haven't supported the
construction of this golf course. Once that moved into the process,
that's when I stopped. Love First Tee. Think they do an amazing
job.
I'm offering a thought. Rezone the property, the balance of this
piece of property, and put it up for our small businesses on long-term
leases, and do a flex space industrial park on that corner in and
June 27, 2023
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around those facilities to support small business. That's -- there are
other avenues that this property could, in fact, be utilized for.
Was I grabbing onto an unfunded request list that just happened
recently in our history? Yes, but there are a lot of other things that
could be done with this piece of property.
I was totally happy with the housing. I was totally happy with
the veterans' nursing home. I was totally happy with the First Tee
facilities. I actually said off record, you know, we could turn the
balance of that into a very nice dog park and never look back and not
have the -- not have the expenses associated with it. Rezone it for
flex space -- and, again, I can -- I'm counting. I can see where we're
at. Go ahead and call for the vote, and I'll be quiet.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll just make a comment about -- I
agree with you 100 percent on Great Wolf on the return of
investment. My position from this seat up here during that time
when we voted was they were going to build it anyway, and so that
was just my position. I didn't think they needed a gift. And I think
if they were going to build it anyway, we would get all that return on
investment without -- without having to give them 15 million to
prime the pump.
But we're not here to debate Great Wolf Lodge, but I wanted to
make that clarification. You're 100 percent right. It's going to bring
money into the community and jobs and all that, but the reality is it
brings that regardless of, you know, giving them a gift to convince
them to build here when they certainly were cited to have this
location fall in our lap. But having said that -- I just wanted to say
that.
Commissioner Kowal.
No. We're not, but I just wanted to say that. Yeah, okay. End
of discussion. Yeah, it's antient history.
Commissioner Kowal.
June 27, 2023
Page 51
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. Well,
since I was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I did get the last word.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You both pointed out there, I
just -- yeah, I just want to compare apples and oranges here. You
know, the sports park is one thing, but the thing with the sports park
is you have to recruit people to use that sports park. That's the way
it's designed. That's the way it's set up. We have to have
management companies, you have people out there with feelers,
bring people in to use it from all around the country, bring the
sporting events for youth and stuff like that. It's a recruiting thing to
get the return on our investment. You know the old saying, you
build it, they will come. If you build an excellent golf course that is
cheap for our residents to use, you don't have to recruit them.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's true.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They will come, and they will
spend their time, they will spend their money there, and they will
enjoy it. And it's a totally different investment, I think, on our
money, you know. You compared apples and oranges. I don't think
you can compare them.
But for the -- I was already under the assumption that 7 million
was already set aside for it, so I didn't think about that even being
offset to the unfunded things we talked about the other day because I
felt -- I already assumed that this was already a done deal. And now
I'm finding out we're going to kind of rehash it.
But, you know, I think -- I look at the investment on return, and
I think the 7 million, to me, would be a lot better, you know, than
what we've done in the past. That's all I'm trying to say, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I also think -- I'm glad you read
that letter from the Arthrex founder -- from Reinhold. He sent it to
all of us -- because I think he reminded us that it's not just the
June 27, 2023
Page 52
7 million we're spending, but by investing that money and
committing it, it's making his efforts and those of his team and Cindy
and everybody feel really secure that the direction they're going to
raise -- they're going, which is raising even millions on top of that, is
critical, that they believe a cohesive golf course as a neighbor is a
requirement.
And I think -- and I agree with it, and so I think this is a good
return on our investment, because if we pledge the 7 million, which
has already been, you know, talked about and pledged -- and maybe
it's not set in stone or whatnot, or maybe it's about to be -- we also,
then, guarantee that First Tee feels like they have a solid partner, they
have somebody that's committed to that footprint, and they are
bringing us unbelievable not only dollars, but it was -- you know,
Commissioner Saunders and I attended something at Arthrex which
had to do with First Tee and how impressive it was and how
complimentary they were of the commitment of the County and how
aggressively they're working to bring in, you know, I don't want to
say matching funds, but millions of dollars to collectively put on that
footprint to make it something we can all be proud of, and I would
hate to see that be in jeopardy, and so would Reinhold, and that's why
he sent us, you know, that note. And I don't think he needed to
remind us of that, but it was a good reminder.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I will close
with just a couple quick comments. And we're talking about
investment. First Tee has raised north of $6 million. Their goal is
to raise 10. They want to have a fund available to fund all of their
operations. By the time they're finished, they're going to be putting a
6 or $7 million, $8 million building on this property. That will be
the best First Tee anywhere in the country.
So what we're building here is really something that all of us
June 27, 2023
Page 53
will be proud of. It may be several years before we start breaking
ground or cutting ribbons and seeing kids playing golf, but this is one
of those legacy types of things that we're building here. And so I'm
going to ask the Board for a positive vote. We have a motion on the
floor. I'm not sure if it's been seconded.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If not, I'd like for a second
and call for the vote, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion on the
floor. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes 4-1.
County Manager.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTSON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner, that brings us to Item 7,
public comments on general topics not on the current or future
agenda.
MR. MILLER: We have two registered speakers,
June 27, 2023
Page 54
Mr. Chairman. Your first speaker is George Abreau, and he will be
followed by Jackie Keay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Good morning, sir.
MR. ABREAU: Good morning, sir. George Abreau from the
office of Commissioner Simpson, Florida Department of Agriculture
and Consumer Services. I'm your regional director, boots on the
grounds, anything that you-all need. I've been in Immokalee
working this area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're a lot better looking in
person than you were when I spoke to you on the Zoom.
MR. ABREAU: I don't like Zoom. I'm an in-person person.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How are you doing, my
friend?
MR. ABREAU: Great, sir. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me.
MR. ABREAU: Congratulations on the veterans' affairs. It's
something important to me. I work with (unintelligible) --
THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. What? You're talking
so fast I can't understand you.
MR. ABREAU: I'm sorry. That's my problem. I get nervous
when I talk in public.
I work with the -- I volunteer also at the home center reserve
base. Again, I appreciate what you-all are doing with the veteran
affairs.
I just wanted to personally introduce myself. I'm here to serve
you and the office. Anything you-all need, please let me know. I
left some cards with the gentleman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I spoke with -- I spoke with
Jorge last month or so ago, and it was -- it was over a Zoom. And if
I'd a known you were coming, I'd a baked a cake today.
June 27, 2023
Page 55
We actually set up an agenda item and had a presentation and
everything. I truly appreciate everything the commissioner's doing
for our community, the division of the state into the individual
districts with the management process. The ag commissioner does
an enormous amount for our community, and I really, really want to
thank you for being here this morning. I didn't know you were
coming, to be honest with you.
MR. ABREAU: Thank you. And, again, my office is based
out of Homestead, but I cover 10 counties. My office is also in my
car. So wherever I need to be, I will be there. I left at 5:00 this
morning just to enjoy the drive up here. So, again, thank you all,
and I'm going to visit some constituents now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nice seeing you in person.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your final registered speaker for
Item 7 is Jackie Keay.
MS. KEAY: Hello again.
I've had the benefit of living in Germany for 17 years. Not only
that, I speak the language very fluently. And our family, we were a
homeschool family. We ate, slept, drank, we did everything that was
related to history.
And part of my ex-husband's hobby was he worked with an
organization called History Flight, and they -- we dug out second
world war plane -- planes as well as crews from the second world
war.
But the benefit of that was speaking to many community
members and many eyewitnesses about the war, about Naziism, as
well as the impact of war to them.
And, you know, my -- I took my children to the Dachau
Concentration Camp. It did not traumatize them. It made them
even more outspoken about hate and racism.
And my mother-in-law and her siblings were Hitler youth. So I
June 27, 2023
Page 56
got a firsthand perspective of Naziism, who Hitler was, and how that
impacted that country.
The thing that concerns me most is, as I look at our country,
especially the State of Florida and I see Nazi flags as well as Nazis
who are indoctrinating other Americans along that line of the Nazi
ideology, that is a really big concern for me. And I feel like the
wonderful thing about history is it teaches us lessons that we're
supposed to learn from.
And one of my favorite quotes, those who are ignorant of their
history are doomed to repeat it. And my concern is, as I look across
our country, the Nazi ideology of hate, racism, I'm seeing it here, and
that really is a concern for me.
One of the things that we have to keep in mind is Naziism
destroyed Germany, and it caused Germany to be conquered and
divided up. So if we insist on going down this path, we have to
really think ahead to see what the consequences will be and how it's
going to impact our country as well as the world.
It doesn't make sense -- first of all, hate doesn't make sense to
me. If you really know me, you would know that I'm one of the
most loving, vivacious, you know, energetic people you'll ever meet.
So love is stronger than hate. Yes, hate is a strong emotion, but love
does and it can conquer hate.
So I would love to see a country in which we teach our children
to love other people even if we disagree with them. Even if we may
not get along with them, there's no reason to hate, because hate is so
destructive. So thank you all very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. We are about
to take a court reporter break. I just wanted to make one statement,
but the young lady isn't here. Erin Dever is our local representative
who represents Senator Scott, and I wish she was here in the back
because I wanted to give her a shout-out because I think, you know,
June 27, 2023
Page 57
recognition and giving credit where credit is due is important. You
know, often we don't hear it enough. When people are working hard
to make sure that our toilets flush and our lights turn on and all that,
we sort of take it for granted.
But I just wanted to say -- and hopefully she's maybe watching
in her office downstairs. I had a major issue with a constituent that
was at the federal level that I thought was impossible to fix, but I
reached out to her, and I just wanted to tell her publicly, whether
she's here or not, that on a Sunday night, not only did she answer me
back instantly, but she and Senator Scott's office worked and
basically moved a mountain for a constituent here in Collier County
that needed federal-level help that was well above our pay grade, and
within 24 hours that citizen got a result.
And it was -- you know, the young lady, Erin Dever who I was
able to get ahold of instantaneously and immediately set wheels into
motion to help, you know, one of our constituents that had a very
significant problem that needed correction, and she did.
So she was sitting back there for, you know, most of this
meeting and I think maybe just walked out. But, Erin, if you're
listening, can't thank you enough, and the citizen that you helped is
extremely grateful. So I'll just leave it at that.
Okay. We'll take a break. We'll come back at 10:45.
(A brief recess was had from 10:31 a.m. to 10:45 12.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll get started.
I just remind everybody to put your cell phones on silent. Now
we're going to get into the meat of some discussions and appreciate it.
Okay. County Manager.
Item #9A
June 27, 2023
Page 58
ORDINANCE 2023-34: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE
TREE FARM MIXED-USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
(MPUD) TO ADD 120 DWELLING UNITS FOR A TOTAL OF 580
DWELLING UNITS (INCLUDING 58 LOW-INCOME UNITS),
SUBJECT TO AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DENSITY BONUS
AGREEMENT, ON 58.84± ACRES LOCATED AT THE
NORTHWEST CORNER OF COLLIER BOULEVARD AND
IMMOKALEE ROAD, IN SECTION 22, TOWNSHIP 38, RANGE
26, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA [PL20220004279] - MOTION
TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we're starting with
advertised public hearings, Item 9, 9A. This item requires that ex
parte disclosure be provided by commission members, and all
participants are required to be sworn in.
This is a recommendation to approve an ordinance amending the
Tree Farm Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development to add 120
dwelling units for a total of 580 dwelling units, including 58
low-income units subject to an affordable housing density bonus
agreement on 58.84 plus-or-minus acres located at the northwest
corner of Collier Boulevard and Immokalee Road in Section 22,
Township 38, Range 26, Collier County, Florida.
If all participants could stand to be sworn in, please.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Kowal, do
you have any disclosures for 9A?
June 27, 2023
Page 59
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, Chairman. I have
meetings and emails for 9A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. I have meetings and
correspondence and emails in reference, actually, to 9A and 9B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Meetings, correspondence, and
emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have meetings and emails
on 9A. Are we doing 9B as well or just --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you want me to --
MS. PATTERSON: Just 9A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, just 9A.
MS. PATTERSON: We'll go to 9B next.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And for 9A, I have
meetings, correspondence, and emails.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Commissioners, we'll begin with
the applicant.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good morning. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich on behalf of the applicant.
I have a lot of people here with me today that can answer any
questions I can't answer.
The petition is really kind of a joint venture between Habitat for
Humanity and White/Peterman. Lisa Lefkow and Mara Foley are
here from Habitat. Matt Chambers is here from White/Peterman.
Chris Scott's the planner from Peninsula Engineering, and Dan
Waters is the engineer from Peninsula Engineering, and
Mr. Trebilcock is our transportation consultant.
I'm going to do just an overview of the project, and then if you
June 27, 2023
Page 60
have specific questions of the team, we're happy to answer them.
As I said, this is a -- this is a joint venture between Habitat and
White/Peterman. It affects this portion of the Tree Farm PUD which
is a mixed-use PUD that allows both commercial and residential
development.
The intention is to build a market-rate apartment complex as
well as housing to be provided by Habitat for Humanity, and I'll show
you that master plan in a moment.
The PUD was originally approved in 2007. As I mentioned,
there's a commercial piece -- I don't see the pointer; there it is -- this
is the commercial piece right here, this is a multiple family piece
right here, and then this is the intended additional space for the
development.
We're increasing the already-approved 460 dwelling units to 580
dwelling units. We are not requesting any changes to the already
approved 580 p.m. peak-hour two-way external trips as part of this
project.
So the previous PUD analyzed the impacts of 580 p.m.
peak-hour two-way trips, and this amendment is honoring and living
with that same traffic impact that was originally approved as part of
this project.
With that, there were improvements that were -- there was some
right-of-way along the eastern portion of the project and the southern
portion of the project that was provided to the County, some of which
we did not get any impact fee credits, so it was a donation.
In addition, there was an agreement related to the intersection of
Collier Boulevard and Immokalee Road for intersection
improvements, and we paid our fair share of those intersection
improvements based upon the 580 p.m. peak-hour trips. So this
project has, I think, taken care of the impacts of the 580 p.m.
peak-hour trips as part of the prior approvals.
June 27, 2023
Page 61
We are asking for two deviations. One relates to signs, and the
other deviation relates to how we're going to provide the affordable
units, which I'll point out. Typically, you intermix the affordable
units within the specific building, but since we have two different
product types, one is a for sale and one is a rental, we are asking for a
deviation to be able to provide the for-sale project separate from the
market-rate apartment complex.
The conceptual layout is -- I keep losing the cursor. These are
the market-rate apartments right here, and these are going to be the
two-story affordable housing units around the perimeter. So we go
from, you know, lower to higher as you get closer to the extension of
Collier Boulevard.
Our access is -- we have access here and access up here for both
projects. And we have committed to paying for our obviously
site-related improvements along the extension of Collier Boulevard,
which we're required to do and obligated to do.
We worked with our neighbors to the west, Esplanade Golf and
Country Club, to address concerns they had with regard to buffers
and what they would see within our project. I believe they're here to
speak in regard to the enhanced buffers, and I believe they -- and they
spoke in favor of the project at the Planning Commission, and I
anticipate they will speak in favor of the project here.
So we have enhanced buffers along our western boundary to
address concerns that were raised by Esplanade, and we provided
them with sightlines to show them that essentially there's really no
impact to their view from -- due to the enhanced buffers that we're
proposing.
I already mentioned the deviation regarding the affordable
housing, and that's to allow for the for-sale product to be around the
perimeter and then the market-rate apartments to be separate from
each other.
June 27, 2023
Page 62
And then, finally, we have a deviation regarding the sign for the
project, which would be in this location right here.
Your staff was recommending approval, or is recommending
approval. The Planning Commission is recommending approval.
And this is one of the very few projects where you've seen that have
come through with the actual existing affordable housing density
bonus program that's in your Land Development Code and the matrix
that currently exists for that. As your staff pointed out, the matrix
does work for projects like this where you basically have a
not-for-profit organization providing the affordable housing aspect.
So this is -- this is a market-rate affordable housing project with
a significant portion of affordable housing units.
And with that, we'll open it up to any questions you have
regarding the specifics of the project, and that's all.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely, Commissioner
Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just one quick question.
You said it, I'm sure, but I didn't hear it. The number of affordable
units?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I forgot the number.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Fifty-eight.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sixty-eight.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Fifty-six.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sixty-eight -- fifty-eight. Fifty-eight,
sorry.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Somewhere between 58 and
68?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Fifty-eight. Sorry. I don't want to
misspeak. I've done that one other time. So it's 58.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Fifty-eight units. And that's
June 27, 2023
Page 63
out of the 120?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, we all got a lot of
emails on this project for and against, you know. And the ones that
were for were all very much similar, supporting Habitat for Humanity
and all the things that are sort of -- you might think are sort of
no-brainers; they definitely are to me.
The ones against -- because, I mean, I won't claim to know
every single nuance and moving part of this project, so I'm really
listening with a keen ear. But the ones that were against were all a
very similar topic, and it was -- and I'm sure everybody saw those, so
chime in if I'm missing something.
But it brought up, you know, traffic, which you've addressed,
and some other things. You know, I've said here before, I don't think
any construction project has ever come to this room that didn't have
opposition, you know, and sometimes the opposition is just, don't
build it, you know. We're overcrowded as it is. You know, stop
ruining our county, and that's not really a great defense, you know.
But it doesn't fall on deaf ears of any of us when citizens have
concerns about density or they -- they're asking questions on did we
do proper traffic analysis? Has the County done everything across
the Board to answer, you know, those concerns?
And sometimes citizens think none of that's been done, and then
in this room, usually it's Mr. Bosi who we call to the podium, and
then he says, well, nothing could be further from the truth. You
know, we've done everything. And it still not might not be favorable
to citizens who just don't want anything built. But the reality is the
things that needed to be done to make sure it would fit on a piece of
property owned by a landowner actually have been done.
So I guess the question I would ask -- and I like hearing it from
June 27, 2023
Page 64
Mr. Bosi because I look at him as, you know, he's on our county
staff, he's an unbiased, you know, person. So I know if I ask the
applicant -- and I'm not saying you would steer the thing.
But, Mr. Bosi, would you mind just taking the podium and just
giving us a little bit of -- and I'm sure you saw a lot those emails as
well, but if you could, you know, clarify for the record some of the
details that were in there where citizens, you know, brought forward
concerns they felt had a lot of merit -- but at least in the analysis I had
and from our conversations that I had with you -- but for the record,
there were quite a few details in there that people were screaming
from the mountaintops that actually didn't seem to hold water, and
maybe just because they weren't informed of the entire process that
has happened on this, you know, parcel of land and on this project.
So what can you tell us in rebuttal, I guess, or in clarification of
those who sent us a lot of emails not in support of what we
are -- what is being proposed?
MR. BOSI: Sure, Chair. Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning
Director.
First, let me say that each one of the divisions and departments
that review entitlements have signed off, specifically Stormwater and
Transportation. As the applicant has indicated, the PUD had an
existing 580 p.m. peak-hour trip cap limitation. Those are not -- that
is not being proposed to be increased, so that really does -- they're
adding use -- they're adding 120 additional residential uses, but
they're not asking for additional traffic. I think that has a real
significant bearing in terms of what the ask is.
But, more importantly, what the ask is going to give is those 58
units that Mr. Yovanovich identified. Those 58 units are at
80 percent of AMI or below. So it's a significant yield in terms of
providing for attainable housing that we know is in desperate need
within this county but, more particularly, the location.
June 27, 2023
Page 65
One of the things that I always fall back upon is what does our
Future Land Use Map say for this particular project? What does our
Future Land Use Element say about this project?
Well, the location of this project is an activity center. That's
where we allow the highest density of residential use. That's where
we allow the highest density of commercial use, and sometimes in
activity centers we also allow some light industrial. So it's where
you would expect the highest intensity.
So this type of a project is what anyone who purchased within
that area could have and should have expected to be within this
general vicinity.
Another thing that we do recognize, that there was a number of
economic opportunities that are in close proximity to this project.
When you add 58 attainable workforce housing units to that -- to that
location, what we do, and what we're always trying to do by our
Growth Management Plan, is we're trying to reduce trip lengths.
We always say, as you grow, you're going to have more traffic
because you have more people. That's -- that's just -- that's a
constant. But what you can do when you have congestion is you
bring the goods and services, you bring the economic opportunities
closer in proximity to where people live. So when you're spending
three -- when you're spending 10 minutes because you only have to
go two miles to get your goods and services or two miles to get to
your job, it's a much different experience than if you're traveling 10
to 15 or 20 miles or minutes to be able to reach your destination.
So this is part of this overall strategy of what we're trying to do
is bring housing opportunities, job employment opportunities, and
goods and service opportunities in much closer proximity. And
staff's perspective is we feel that we've done this, and the applicant is
doing that with this proposal. Like we said, we are supporting the
two deviations that are being suggested related to -- related to the
June 27, 2023
Page 66
PUD. And any other questions that maybe I -- that I didn't address
that I could answer for you?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got commissioners lit up here.
Commissioner Saunders and then Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I do have a couple questions for Mr. Bosi.
As you said, Mr. Chairman, we received a lot of correspondence
in opposition to this. Most of the folks that are in opposition to this
live in The Quarry community. And I've spent a lot of time with
those folks, and their concern is traffic. That is probably the
number-one issue for them as well as for other developments along
Immokalee Road.
So a couple questions in reference to this particular parcel.
We're adding 120 dwelling units, and we've heard the dialogue about
the 58, the benefit of those affordable housing units. I want to talk
about what could go there if we don't do this, because a lot of folks
don't really fully understand some of the alternatives. This is a fairly
limited project, but what could -- if we turn this down, as an example,
what could go there?
We have the Live Local Act, and that's Senator Passidomo's act.
It's a great piece of legislation. And my understanding is that this
18.7 acres is currently zoned commercial or some mixed-use. And
so my question is I believe that this developer could apply directly to
staff under the Live Local Act and develop a whole lot more units
with only 40 percent of them being -- having to be affordable in order
to get much more market rate.
Can you elaborate on that? Because I want people in the -- that
are opposed to this to understand, yeah, we're going to create some
traffic here, maybe less than what would have been under the original
proposals, but much less than what could occur if we say no to a
developer and they look to other legislation that's pending now.
June 27, 2023
Page 67
MR. BOSI: Yeah. Commissioner Saunders, you're correct.
This is a mixed-use PUD. The back two-thirds are residential where
they're proposing is designated for residential, but that front
18.6 acres is mixed-use commercial. If they chose to, they could
come and submit an application and request 91.77 units per acre.
That's the highest residential density that we allow within the county,
and that's what the statute says that they are entitled to. They're also
entitled to the highest allowed height within one mile of the project
that the -- we believe that the -- that height is somewhere around four
to five stories.
So what they could do is a much more intense project within the
commercially designated, mixed-use designated area of the PUD
without a public hearing, just straight having to satisfy the Site
Development Plan process as an alternative, if that was their
individual choice.
So what -- and one thing that I did want to point out, I think the
applicant pointed out, this is one of those few programs where -- or
few projects where they are actually utilizing our existing affordable
housing density bonus program. Most of the time, they -- the choice
from the private development side has been to seek a Growth
Management Plan amendment to raise the density. What they're
utilizing is the existing affordable housing density bonus program to
provide for it.
So they're working within the lines that we've -- that we've long
established for how to raise density. But, yes, if they chose to on
that 18.6 acres on the frontage, they could seek a much higher density
frontage than what we're providing for.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Now, could they still do that
under the -- under of the Live Local Act? That's really a question, I
guess, for Mr. Yovanovich, in terms of that 18-acre parcel.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. I did have the opportunity to
June 27, 2023
Page 68
speak to the author of the Live Local Act. And I asked the question,
if I'm in a mixed-use PUD, can I take advantage of Live Local even
on the portions that are designated residential because it's within a
mixed-use PUD? And the answer I got back is yes.
So we could, on just the yellow piece, come in with a Site
Development Plan at the 91 point whatever number that
was -- actually, it won't fit, but at a much higher density than what
we're requesting to put on that site and probably -- probably higher
than we're requesting, and it would be an administrative approval.
We wouldn't have to do the enhanced buffers. We would blow past
the trip cap that's already existing in the PUD and -- under the Live
Local Act, we could do that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. I appreciate it,
because I just wanted the folks in The Quarry to understand that if
this fails, then there are other alternatives that could be much more
attractive to a developer but much less attractive to the overall
community.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As is usually the case, I may
be asking the same question but just a different way. Commissioner
Saunders says things a lot more eloquently than I do.
For clarification purposes, we're not asking for a trip increase on
the already existent cap, but we are asking for an extra 120 units.
How does that equate to not more trips?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, since we're adding that use, we
are obviously going to take -- not build as much of the other
authorized uses within the PUD.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That were already included in
the original PUD?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Analysis, yes.
June 27, 2023
Page 69
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't see any other
questions up here just yet.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We need a motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Do we have a motion to
approve?
COMMISSIONER HALL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion to
approve. Do I have a second?
MS. PATTERSON: Troy?
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, sorry for the second time today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do we have public comments?
MR. MILLER: I do have a registered speaker on this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
MR. MILLER: Kathleen Sharpe.
MS. SHARPE: Good morning. I'm Kathleen Sharpe, and I am
a board director at Esplanade which abuts -- as you've seen in the
photo exhibits today, we abut to the north and west side of this
project.
We reached out to start a dialogue with Habitat last fall to find
out what their plans were for this project, and we also partnered with
The Quarry, met with White/Peterman as well to work through our
concerns. They were very open to listening to our concerns
regarding density, buffer, traffic. We actually also had a meeting
with Commissioner Saunders and his staff in March to work through
our concerns.
The developers have brought forth a plan that does meet our
concerns regarding the buffers and improvements, and at this time we
do support the project.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
June 27, 2023
Page 70
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. So am I
correct that we had a motion and second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Motion stands, yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Troy, nothing else?
MR. MILLER: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Item #9B
ORDINANCE 2023-35: DENY AN ORDINANCE REZONING
PROPERTY FROM COMMERCIAL INTERMEDIATE DISTRICT
(C-3) TO HEAVY COMMERCIAL DISTRICT (C-5), SUBJECT TO
CONDITIONS, FOR A SELF-STORAGE FACILITY AND
GENERAL COMMERCIAL DISTRICT (C-4) USES ON +/-5.98
ACRES LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF TAMIAMI TRAIL
EAST (US 41) JUST EAST OF COLLIER BOULEVARD (CR 951),
ON LOTS 2 AND 3 OF INLAND VILLAGE SUBDIVISION, IN
SECTION 3, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, IN
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA (RZ-PL20210002658) - MOTION
TO APPROVE WITH CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
June 27, 2023
Page 71
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: 9B. This item requires ex parte
disclosure be provided by the commission members, and all
participants are required to be sworn in.
This is a recommendation to deny an ordinance rezoning
property from commercial intermediate district C-3, to heavy
commercial district C-5, subject to conditions for a self-storage
facility and general commercial district C-4 uses on plus-or-minus
5.98 acres located on the south side of Tamiami Trail East just east of
Collier Boulevard on Lots 2 and 3 of Inland Village Subdivision in
Section 3, Township 51 South, Range 26 East, in Collier County,
Florida.
Let's have everyone stand to be sworn.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Start with Commissioner Kowal.
Do you have any disclosures for 9B?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, I do have ex parte. It's
meetings, 9B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The same, meetings and
emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have a meeting on 9B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just meetings and calls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I had meetings and
June 27, 2023
Page 72
emails for 9B.
Okay. Proceed.
MR. MULHERE: Thank you. For the record, Bob Mulhere,
here on behalf of the applicant.
With me I also have Ellen Summers from my office, who's a
certified planner. Felix Pardo is an architect, excuse me, right over
there and -- working on the project as well. Jim Banks did our
transportation plan, but it's -- Jim is not able to attend, and it's a very
low traffic generator, so I thought we'd be okay with that. Chris
Mitchell is the civil engineer on the project.
So this shows the subject location. It is just east of Collier
Boulevard on the north side of Tamiami Trail. Directly north of us
is the Falling Waters Beach Resort residential community. We're
sitting on basically a six-lane -- actually, more than six-lanes with the
turn lanes there, a major intersection. Across the street is
commercial. Across Collier Boulevard, it's commercial.
Diagonally, across Tamiami Trail, is commercial. All fairly large
commercial mixed-use activity center projects.
The request is to rezone from C-3 to C-5 with allowing for the
storage facility use and then other -- the full range of C-4 uses.
This is the Future Land Use Element. It shows the general
location of the property. The activity center is not actually any
longer shaped in the square red box that's shown there, but this
subject property is still within the activity center. And this is the
zoning. As you can see, immediately adjacent to our east is C-5
zoning, and then the -- there's a CVS on the corner on the
northwest -- northeast corner of Collier and U.S. 41.
This is the subject lot designed. The storage facility is right
here. There is another storage facility. All of this property is under
the same ownership and has been for more than a decade. It was
platted, and there's been a Site Development Plan approved here for
June 27, 2023
Page 73
this existing self-storage facility.
I wanted to point out a couple of things. There is a preserve
here which creates an excellent separation between us and our
neighbors to the north as well as a 92-foot-wide stormwater drainage
easement, which forces the development on these lots to a relatively
limited area and fairly narrow. There is a right-in, right-out only
here. It's a divided highway. And so this project has very limited
access, right-in, right-out. There is a frontage road right here that's
already developed with parking here. Buffers are in place.
And this shows interconnection to the CVS, which would
presumably allow us to move north on Collier Boulevard.
Unfortunately, that interconnection does not exist because CVS, after
years of negotiations, the exorbitant amount of money that they want
for that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
This is an architectural rendering showing both the existing site
over here and the proposed site. They're architecturally compatible
and united in the design, central access point.
As I mentioned, the property's in Mixed-Use Activity Center
No. 18, which allows for the full range of commercial uses.
I pretty much went over the site plan already. I'll just make a
point here that the closest point of the proposed development to
Falling Waters is about 180 feet. There is an existing 6-foot-high
wall along the northern property line with landscaping on both sides.
When the first self-storage unit was built, my client and myself, we
all met with Falling Waters. We made some significant
commitments to them. Those commitments carry over to this -- also
to this proposed self-storage facility, which includes things like no
lighting on the back side, no windows on the back side. We redid
the -- there's a 6-foot-high wall on the back, which needed repair; we
took care of that. There's landscaping on both sides of that wall.
These are just some of the other commitments we've made.
June 27, 2023
Page 74
The parking lot lighting shall be Dark Sky compliant. No more than
one fast food through restaurant establishment is allowed. There is
that second lot immediately to the west of the proposed self-storage,
which my clients also own, which will not have self-storage and may
be used for anything that's allowed in C-4, including -- with the
exception of some prohibited uses, and I'll get to that in just a minute.
I think you know this is a very low traffic generator. We've
made a number of other commitments that are consistent with the
proposed East Naples Community Plan. There's no parking in the
back.
Our height is relatively low, a maximum of 35 feet zoned and
38 feet actual. Very low traffic generators. You know, self-storage
is a very low traffic generator.
So I just wanted to talk a little bit about the East Naples
Community Development Plan. That was accepted by the Board in
October of 2020. We had a pre-application meeting. I say
"accepted." The next step for that plan is either a combination of a
Comprehensive Plan amendment to establish the overlay and a Land
Development Code amendment, or I suppose, arguably, it could come
forward with just a Land Development Code amendment.
In any case, that has not been heard by the Planning
Commission or heard by the Board. It's still being put together by
staff and working its way through the process.
There was discussion at one point in September of '22 about a
moratorium, but that was not carried forward.
And this use is not prohibited in the East Naples Community
Plan. There are a number of discouraged uses that are identified,
and these are now otherwise restricted in terms of location and other
elements of a plan.
So this application is not subject to those limitations on
self-storage because it hasn't even gotten to the Planning Commission
June 27, 2023
Page 75
or the Board yet. We submitted the SDP for this self-storage
building in December of 2022, and that's presumably ready to be
approved once -- if this application is approved.
I did want to point out, however, that there are some elements
that -- wherein we have tried to comply with the recommendations of
the East Naples Community Plan.
One of those applications to self-storage is that at least
30 percent of the gross area has to be occupied by an alternative use
within the same building or, alternatively, on the site but not within
the same building, provided the non-storage use is in front -- in the
front part of the site and screens the view of the storage.
Well, as I pointed out, it is really not possible for us to locate a
building in front of this building. This is very narrow, again, with
limited access; however, we do have this parcel right over here, Lot
3, which could be used for alternative uses and will be because we
won't be putting self-storage on that.
There -- as I said, there is an existing buffer which was already
platted. It's 20 feet deep for about half of the property. It's reduced
to 10 feet, and that was because the County took right-of-way when
they widened the -- when they improved the intersection here, so
they'd actually took the 10 foot of the landscape buffer.
We're not using metal roll-up doors. The building will be
entirely accessed internally. So these are other conditions in the
proposed East Naples Community Plan. We're not having any
outdoor storage of any kind. Obviously, there are -- there is a
self-storage located closer than 1,320 feet. There's actually one
immediately adjacent to the east which was constructed by the same
owner.
So, I mean, I want to point out that the site is extremely limited
for the kind of development that is envisioned in the East Naples
Community Plan. A site plan and the plat included a preserve at a
June 27, 2023
Page 76
stormwater management area, which, again, limited development
options there. And this just shows you the constraints on the two
parcels there.
I just wanted to point out, this is the mixed-use activity center.
The subject lot is right here. And you can see that this whole strip
here is pretty narrow. There is a tractor supply store, a sheriff's
deputy substation, there's an existing self-storage, the proposed
self-storage then, of course, the vacant lot and the CVS.
But if you look at the other components in the Mixed-Use
Activity Center 18 here, you can see that the commercial in Lely
PUD is very large. Same thing on the southwest quadrant, which
has the home -- Lowe's and some other improvements in it right here.
Some -- quite a mix of commercial here, and the same over here.
These are obviously much larger, much deeper, and those mixed-use
or commercial projects can accommodate the concepts and desires of
the East Naples Community Plan, again, which haven't even made it
through the Planning Commission or the Board. But it's very
difficult to do that over here with the limited access.
Just another graphic of that.
We did have a neighborhood information meeting. We had the
president of the HOA for Falling Waters there. His quote is on the
screen. We've met with them several times. They supported this
one. They support this one as well. He also spoke at the Planning
Commission.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can you go back. I wanted to
just -- okay.
MR. MULHERE: And the Planning Commission voted to
support this request.
I just want to talk very briefly a little bit about the staff
recommendation, which I was a little bit surprised. It seemed a little
extreme to me given that the East Naples Community Plan hasn't
June 27, 2023
Page 77
even -- we don't know what's going to get approved at this point.
My clients, we've been in this process for a long time. I realize it's a
rezone, but this is also a mixed-use commercial activity center.
However, in the Planning Commission staff report, under the
zoning review, the staff reads as follows: The land-use pattern in the
local area contains a mix of multifamily, residential, and commercial
uses. The current zoning of C-3 is consistent with the established
zoning pattern for the area. The proposed rezone to C-5 to allow for
a self-storage facility is consistent with the zoning and use of the
property to the east.
The property is located within an activity center as well as a
regional center subdistrict of the pending U.S. 41 East Corridor
Zoning Overlay, which is envisioned to be a compact urban
mixed-use node that is walkable and transit friendly. Well, I think
I've pointed out to you that you're not going to see those kinds of
elements in this very limited access, very narrow, already almost
completely built commercial strip. There are other opportunities
along the U.S. 41 for those to occur.
It goes on to say it is notable that the representatives who
attended the NIM from the adjacent Fallings Waters neighborhood
indicated the level of activity generated by the proposed storage
facility is preferred if properly screened and buffered and, you know,
that the applicant has agreed to a number of limitations and
conditions on the self-storage and for other uses on the property,
including a prohibition of gas stations and convenience stores with
gas pumps. So we have tried to be consistent with the proposed East
Naples civic community plan as much as we possibly can.
That concludes my presentation. I do have Felix here if there
are any specific questions about the architectural design. Happy to
answer any questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, do we have any public
June 27, 2023
Page 78
speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. I have one registered speaker,
Gordon Brumwell.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Good morning, sir.
DR. BRUMWELL: Hi. Thanks for hearing me. Dr. Gordon
Brumwell, Ph.D. in biology, here.
The East Naples Community Development Plan, which the
Board signed off on, shows the community considers U-Stor-It places
undesirable. The 41 East Zoning Overlay also shows the community
does not want more U-Stor-It places, especially on prime real estate
like this corner.
So while the overlay is not yet passed, that's true, there's a strong
signal, a very strong signal from the community, that it doesn't want
more U-Stor-It places in very visible places. So please don't rezone
for an undesirable use.
We've just heard that activity centers are more dense, multiuse,
and result in a shift, a nudge, to local trips, making everything easier
on the road.
The corner is an activity center. A U-Stor-It place is not in
sync with that intent. So please don't rezone for that purpose, but if
you do rezone, please stipulate it must be for a desirable purpose. Or
if you do allow a U-Stor-It place here, please stipulate that it meets
the overlay's intent of landscaping that is functional and aesthetically
reminiscent of the lush Florida we're losing. Particularly, I'd suggest
shading the impermeable surfaces from both rain and sun with native
shade trees. This would provide the co-benefits of reducing urban
heat island effect and reducing flooding, which we have too much of.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: That was your only speaker on this item, sir.
June 27, 2023
Page 79
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Mulhere, do you have any
other speakers? Is there anybody here from Falling Waters or
anything else?
MR. MULHERE: He has his wife at the doctor's office and
was unable to make it. I do want to -- thank you for asking, though.
I do want to pull up -- if I can just -- I have the letter that he sent in
for the Planning Commission, which was in May.
So you can see the letter right here which reads, when I
addressed the County at our NIM meeting at the beginning of this
approval process, I stated that we moved to Falling Waters for the
peace and quiet, for less people and traffic in the area. Traffic at the
corner of the intersection is very bad. We would not want any
additional traffic in that area.
The Stor-All owners have been great neighbors to us throughout
the process and very helpful to our neighborhood. It's important to
us that a clean tenant use the property. We have a bear problem,
important not to create any smelly garbage. Because we are -- we
abut the commercial property to our south, there is no other
residential property that is more affected than we are, which I pointed
out in my presentation. This is the only residential adjacent
development.
Developers have kept all of their promises. They've been great
neighbors. And please approve the project as presented. I'm going
to butcher Frank's last name, but Frank M. Ferraiuolo.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Frank F.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So before I ask my list of
questions, can you do a little bit of a deeper dive on what type of
landscaping you are proposing? And like you said, there's a big
buffer in the back that you automatically get to enjoy because of that,
you know, environmentally extensive property.
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
June 27, 2023
Page 80
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But once this companion property
goes up next to the storage unit that already exists on the adjacent
land by the same owner, what's the -- what's the landscape
and -- what's the landscape plan for the new building if we approved
it?
MR. MULHERE: So there's obviously one point I want to
make, Commissioners, the very few parking spaces that are required
compared to other uses here. So when we talk about a sea of asphalt
and heat and those kind of things, this use, by its very nature, requires
less asphalt.
I do want to point out, if you look on this exhibit, that there's a
right-in, right-out that exists, and this frontage road here exists, which
is good, because people can move through this project to the east to
the other projects without having to go back out onto the trail. There
is a landscape buffer that already exists. It's 20 feet wide right here
and is planted and is mature.
The staff will look at that as we go -- if this was to be approved,
the staff will look at that as we go through the SDP process, and if we
have to supplement that with any trees, we will do that as part of the
SDP process.
The same thing here. The buffer is reduced to 10 feet because
of acquisition of right-of-way for the intersection improvements. So
the property owner lost land for the intersection improvements,
Commissioner. And I don't think it would make any sense to jut
this -- this access road back. It's just going to create problems. It's
a straight access road the way it is today.
So, I mean, I think the landscaping's in place, but if we have to
supplement it, I'm sure staff will look at that as we go through the
SDP process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The current storage unit that's
already in place that this would be a companion to -- when was that
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built? Remind me when that was built.
MR. MULHERE: 2020? '19? It was approved in '19.
Probably construction in 2020. Sold out within four or five months.
One month. One month.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And the height of the current
building is what? And the height of this proposed building is what?
MR. MULHERE: They're both 35 feet.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thirty-five feet?
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Nobody's probably been
more negative about storage units up on this panel than me, but I put
in my newsletter that I released last week some clarifications. I'm
not against storage units. I'm more focused on the location. And so
I was very clear about that in my newsletter last week saying that,
you know, they sell out quick for a reason, but, you know, putting
them haphazardly just sort of in areas that could have benefited from
something maybe more aesthetically pleasing or more needed, you
know, up and down U.S. 41, just my personal opinion, you know,
that train already left the station.
One of the things that I am a supporter of -- and I've spent a lot
of time with Mr. Bosi talking about mixed-use activity centers -- is
concentrating these more industrial commercial things on a footprint
so that it's a one-stop shop. People can go visit Publix, they can go
visit a strip mall, but, you know, there are some storage units, as you
sort of drive up and down U.S. 41, that aren't really in the heart of an
activity center. Somebody found a nice piece of property. Storage
units are cash cows. And, you know, years ago it wasn't illegal,
immoral, or unethical. We had zoning in place that allowed for
these units to be built, and they went up very quickly in District 1 and
in areas that I think didn't add to the -- to the aesthetics or the positive
use of that area.
June 27, 2023
Page 82
I've said before, when you build a storage unit on the corner of
something that's not a commercial activity center and it's just, you
know, across from a gated community or what have you, on the
opposite corner, you don't get an Ocean Prime restaurant. You get a
Wawa or a RaceTrac gas station. And so you've effectively killed
that intersection when maybe it could have benefited from something
that was more balanced for the community.
Even though I led some discussion here about maybe taking a
pregnant pause or, you know -- you know, I hated to use the word
"moratorium," but, yeah, back in September I was floating that idea
just because I felt like we needed to sort of catch our breath.
And to the speaker's point -- and I appreciate you coming to the
podium, sir. But to my disappointment, the East Naples overlay,
which is still in play, nothing was approved. All's we approved back
last year was to move forward on future -- on further analysis. And
even though the current draft might have some things in it that are
very negative against storage units, that may not pass with this group,
you know. And so, you know, right now it's just in draft form.
I mean, I've said before, had that aggressively been pushed by
the County 10 years ago, we could have a document that we could
throw up right now and say, approved or disapproved, because it
meets or doesn't meet.
And Commissioner Saunders has that advantage in Golden Gate
because he has a Golden Gate Master Plan which is sort of like very
similar to what we're trying to do in East Naples. We're just doing it
about 10 or 15 years too late. So even if that document comes out
and it says all the things that can't be done in East Naples, they're
already done. So we won't tear down all the things that don't meet
the East Naples, you know, overlay, you know, development plan.
So I probably -- I don't say "probably." I don't love this, okay?
But I also tried to be more fair, more maybe strategic and say, I also
June 27, 2023
Page 83
think it's irresponsible to just say, I'm going to vote against every
storage unit that ever comes up here. It's really about, like, where it
is.
So let me ask you this: When this was -- this owner has owned
both lots from -- like you said, more than 10 years. When he built
the first storage unit in 2019, my understanding is the plan, and even
presented to the County, was always that he was going to build a
matching companion unit right next to it, correct?
MR. MULHERE: That was always the intention. We weren't
smart enough at the time to go through this once, and now we're
going through it twice. And I imagine it probably had to do with,
you know, what will the market conditions be after we finish this first
building. But, yes, that was always the plan.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. So the reason I hate this
one a lot less than so many others that have already been built -- and
even some others that sort of came to me where somebody was
testing the waters and I gave very strong negative support, and some
of them sort of died on the vine, you know, they wanted to sort of
float the idea -- this one is in an area that is a commercial activity
center, so that's a plus compared to others that aren't that we can't
unbuild. It is a companion project to a project that was approved
long ago, and I know that this was always the plan, and even the
citizens know it, and that's why they're in support of it.
The East Naples development overlay, even though we don't
have the final version, and who knows what's going to be, you know,
line-item vetoed out of that, because I think there's some things in
there that I'm going to be really excited about for East Naples, but in
the end, it takes the commissioners up here, and there's, you know,
several of my colleagues here that are going to feel differently than I
do about land-use rights and whatnot.
The one thing that I'm encouraged about that you've done here
June 27, 2023
Page 84
that other developers that have come to me haven't done is even
though that East Naples overlay isn't approved, you are attacking this
companion project like it has been approved. And, you know, I met
with Mr. Bosi, and in many cases you've met or exceeded what I'm
hoping is in the overlay, and you're taking a position, assuming it's
approved.
And so I hate this less because you're meeting the standards of
what I hope is going to be in this long-overdue East Naples, you
know, overlay. But instead of trying to sort of squeeze this under the
door with the minimum things required, I'm, like I said, less upset
that you-all have leaned far forward and said, you know, we're trying
to bring this to the standard of what might be in the East Naples
overlay. And if it isn't, then, you know, you've still exceeded the
standard.
So, you know, just to be clear, I'm not sitting here
rubber-stamping storage units, but I hate this one a lot less than some
others that have been built in District 1 and some others that even
might be coming forward. But, you know, in this one, to be, you
know, fair -- and also, too, I look at this and go, it's in the middle of
a -- of an activity center, and by allowing it to be built there, we're
saving a piece of property maybe in a -- in another location where a
storage unit isn't the best thing. And so I look at it as it's a little bit
of sort of that tradeoff.
And then, like I said, this is a companion project to something
that's already been built. This landowner has owned the land for 10
years. It's not a big surprise. All this was discussed, you know,
well before my time.
And I know the people that live in that community. I heard the
same results from the NIM. You know, I did get some
negative -- not overly negative, but some folks that sort of made
blanket statements and just said, we know you hate storage units, so
June 27, 2023
Page 85
make sure you don't approve this one. And it's really not about the
storage units. It's the location of where it is, and this one's in the
heart of, as you showed on the map, where I wish more storage units
were.
If I was king for a day and could move some out of some areas
that are, you know, in more -- in locations that would be more
advantageous for higher level shopping, better restaurants, and all of
that, you know, we sort of have used up some prime real estate in
some areas that aren't, you know, the industrial centers where we
could have had some other things.
But I think you have -- I mean, we spent a lot of time on this one
because, you know, you knew I had a lot of concerns about any
storage units just in general. But you know, this is one where I think
the location is less bad, if I could say that. It's not overly tall, and
like you said, it's a matching companion project that was already, you
know, discussed back in 2019. It just -- you know, your client, I
guess, you know, did -- wasn't sure when they were going to build
sort of this second building.
Knowing that the community, you know, attended the
NIM -- and I got a lot of feedback from that community as well
saying, hey, we know you're not a big fan of storage units, but we
think this one is a little bit unique that it's in a commercial activity
center, it's already surrounded by some things, it's a companion
project to something that's already built.
So, you know, I want to be realistic here. I'm not banging on
tables, you know, putting blinders on and saying, I'm going to vote no
on every single thing has the word "storage unit" on it, but there's
some places where I think storage units, car washes, things like that,
don't fit optimally, and in this particular case, I don't think this is one
that I'm, like, outraged over.
So this is my district. Maybe -- you know, I've got a few
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people, you know, lighting up here, but, you know, I've taken -- I've
spent a lot of time looking at this one, a lot of time talking to
constituents, and, you know, the lesser of all evils is I wish more of
our storage units were concentrated in areas like this and built like
this. It doesn't mean I love them, but, you know, having said that, I
also have to sit here and think, is there anything illegal, immoral, or
unethical, you know, with this project.
And, you know, I'm not someone that just votes no because, you
know, 100 people showed up in red shirts. And in this case, the
people that live close by this area, you know, it's -- the HOA
president spoke for itself.
To the gentleman's comments in the back, I agree with you
wholeheartedly. So the conversation here about landscape and
things like that, you know, Mr. Bosi, I don't know if your position is
we've got to solidify something a lot more robust and detailed or if
this was approved you would -- you could continue to have a
discussion, and if you thought we were sort of skimping on robust,
lush, you know, professional landscape that is conducive and
complementary to what's already in that area, would we have the
last -- you know, would that be something that could continue after
this, or do we have to sit here and specifically put something more
detailed before we vote and when it comes to landscape?
Because the gentleman brought up a good point, and that is a
concern of mine. Even though I don't think the building and the
location is a gigantic showstopper, I want to make sure that, you
know, we're not sort of skimping on the aesthetics of this second, you
know, companion storage unit.
So, you know, what are your thoughts? Do we need to get
more specific in the -- in the, you know, terminology in the narrative
before we vote here, or this will be something, as Mr. Mulhere said,
you'll go forward, and if you see some sort of big red flag, you could
June 27, 2023
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bring to our attention?
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
I would ask if you would like an enhanced landscape buffer.
They have an existing landscape buffer. And I don't think the
configuration allows us to increase the width. But I would think
some additional plant material added to the existing landscape buffer
could provide for a better buffering, better enhancement, without a lot
of specificity. You don't have to name the type of tree or --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: -- you know, the species, but an enhanced -- and
enhanced landscape buffer along the U.S. 41 corridor within the
original -- within the existing footprint, I would -- I would say would
be an improvement to the overall, you know, aesthetic and softening
of the facility.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And everything -- so that
helps. Everything that I said prior to that, do you have any
comment? So, you know, the things that I'm sitting here taking a
look at is I hate it less because it's in the center of an activity center,
which, like I said, I wish more storage units were; I hate it less
because it's a companion project, and has always been, to a storage
unit that's already there. I hate it less because the local community is
actually -- and I got feedback from them as well -- would prefer this
companion project over some other things that could go in this
location; I hate it less because the architecture and height is not
overly, you know, obtrusive or of a main concern; and I hate it less
because of the natural buffers but also what has the potential of
enhanced buffers, which I would like.
And I hate it less because it also meets or exceeds the East
Naples overlay, which hasn't even come to us yet, could pass, might
not even pass, but, you know, this particular landowner has taken it
upon themself to look at the things that would affect them in that
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overlay, could affect them if it's passed, and has already met or
exceeded those, what we hope are, you know, requirements but are
sort of proposed expectations right now.
Did I -- did everything I say -- is that correct, or do you have a
comment on any of that?
MR. BOSI: I could offer a comment. You are correct, this is a
mixed-use activity center. It hosts Commercial 1 to Commercial 5.
Commercial 5 is where the self-storage facility is a permitted use.
It's a conditional use in the C-4. So this is a place that your Growth
Management Plan would suggest to be a self-storage facility.
The reason why staff was constrained from recommending
approval -- and the applicant did a terrific job of giving you the
history and trying to show compliance with the -- with the developing
East Naples Zoning Overlay. 2020, the East Naples Development
Plan was accepted, just accepted by the Board of County
Commissioners. It had some do-outs.
In April of this year, April 25th, the GMP overlay, which
addressed additional height and additional density within your
community region centers was transformed by the Board of County
Commissioners. You transmitted it to the State of Florida. We did
get some comments back from the State of Florida with some
concern over increasing density within the Coastal High Hazard
Area. So we have some constraints upon ourselves in terms of when
we bring that back to you for consideration.
And the intention was when we bring that back for
consideration, we were also going to bring the -- we were also going
to bring the zoning overlay with it. And I'm just going to bring up
the draft of the U.S. 41 zoning overlay -- it's already been heard by
the DSAC -- just to give you an understanding. Someone overrode
my --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this: If that -- if
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that zoning overlay was approved as-is or very close to what we hope
or expect or think it might be, is there anything in this project that
would be in violation of what we are currently looking to get
approved or proposed? Is there -- are there any data points in
this -- in this current building that would be, you know, excessive
compared to the overlay if and when that's approved in its entirety?
MR. BOSI: Yes, there's one point. And this is -- this is the
proposed draft right now, and it identifies a self-storage facility as a
use for additional design standards where -- and it had suggested the
30 percent of floor area or an alternative use within the same project.
I think the applicant has addressed that they intend to do that with
that other adjoining parcel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: Where you get caught up -- and there's also a
building design component that they have, and no outdoor storage of
any kind. They're in line with it.
It's the E, it's the locational criteria. It says,
self-storage/mini-storage warehouses shall not be located closer than
1,320 feet from the closest property line of another
self-storage/mini-storage facility. That's where they're in -- they're
not in compliance with it, but that's not an adopted overlay yet.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: It's been to the DSAC. We intend to bring it to
the Planning Commission when we have the -- when we have the
adoption hearing for the -- for the GMP that came on.
Like I said, we're going to have to address the GMP because the
State has raised concerns about raising density within Coastal High
Hazard Areas. So we've got a couple strategies that we're talking to
the State about hopefully to mitigate those issues.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, realistically, if that was
approved -- and I'm just talking out loud. Is it possible this could be
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an exception? Because I think the intent of that is I'm Rick
LoCastro, and I built a storage unit, and then a week later,
Commissioner Saunders buys a lot right next to me, and he wants to
build a storage unit. So this prevents us from having -- I mean, I
look at this as this is a companion project to one footprint owned by a
property owner that has had it for 10 years. So if this passed, would
there be some gray area here that he's not building a storage unit next
to another -- he's building one next to his own? And I'm looking for
clarification here.
MR. BOSI: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or this would -- or this would still
stand, and he would not be allowed to build a companion storage unit
next to one he already owns on property he's owned for 10 years.
MR. BOSI: The applicant has owned the existing self-storage
facility, this lot. This lot here is zoned C-3. So when he purchased
it, if he wanted to build a self-storage facility, he would have had to
have rezoned that property from C-3.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: So you couldn't make that case.
Here's the one thing that I say. Further, our hands are tied, and
it seems like this East Naples Development Plan has -- there's
roadblocks in front of it a number different ways. It's called Senate
Bill 250. Senate Bill 250, which was passed by the legislature, said
that any county that's within 100 miles of the path of Hurricane Ian
cannot adopt more restrictive standards within their Land
Development Code than what exists today. We can't -- so this
overlay, we can't bring this overlay to you with the adoption hearing
the way that it is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: It would not be consistent with state statutes. We
can only bring the enhancements that are trying to promote more
June 27, 2023
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mixed-use --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: -- but nothing that's more restrictive. So
even -- so staff's really in a -- stuck in a tough position. We
recognize that an activity center would support this type of a rezone.
The community -- the East Naples Development Plan and the
community, through the zoning overlay, has tried to put some
locational restrictions upon self-storage facilities, car washes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. BOSI: We're not going to be able to adopt those.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So even -- and my last question
will be -- and I've got commissioners lit up here, and then I'll maybe
close it out with a motion depending on what I hear here.
But having said all of that, even though all that stuff is still in
limbo, this applicant and this landowner has met or exceeded
requirements that may or may not be approved to go the extra mile, I
guess; is that a fair statement?
MR. BOSI: Staff would recognize that the applicant has been
very willing to comply with components of the overlay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Mulhere, when you hear
the -- what did you call the additional landscape? Like, more robust,
or what's the --
MR. MULHERE: Well, I have a -- I have the actual approved
landscape plan up. I just wanted to share that with you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, Mr. Bosi, what was the
terminology you used for more -- like more robust?
MR. BOSI: Enhanced.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Enhanced. I'm sorry. Yeah,
enhanced.
MR. MULHERE: And we did that. So I'm just reading from
what the approved landscape buffer was on the south, along the
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right-of-way. It was a Type D buffer with one tree every 30 feet and
a double hedgerow 3-foot on center.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But listen, before you go through,
like, you know --
MR. MULHERE: No, we are exceeding that. Now, I do think
that it's possible --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I think the word "enhanced,"
to the County, means something, and so even though you might
laundry list all the plants and all those things like that, I would ask
Mr. Bosi, am I correct in saying that if we actually used the word
"enhanced," it either confirms that they're already doing something
that's enhanced, or it might elevate a few other landscape things that,
you know, the citizen, I, and maybe others are concerned about?
MR. BOSI: Staff would look at the existing approved plan, and
then it would look at the actual condition, and it would make an
evaluation, are you -- are you more than what --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BOSI: -- the approved plan was? And if they were
meeting that in the condition, then staff would say --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you think they're currently
meeting enhanced or there's some --
MR. BOSI: I am not a landscape architect, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. Okay.
Let me hear from my colleagues. Commissioner Hall, then
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
So I have a question. This is a recommendation to deny the
application? So would a no vote be in favor of it, or would a
yes -- and a yes vote would be not in favor of the project?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. You make a motion. Motion to
approve or motion to deny.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Then I make a motion to
approve this project.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Kowal, did
you have some questions or anything before we --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Mr. Mulhere, can you bring up
the side-by-side photo again of the storage unit.
MR. MULHERE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I guess this is a question for
our County Attorney, too. You were getting up, sorry. You know,
we're -- with staff's recommendation and -- not to deny, and we're
moving forward, and I'm hearing a lot of moving parts here with what
could be or couldn't be, and now, you know, with the new statutes
coming down from Tallahassee, I mean, if we're making rulings on
things that don't exist yet, or if we're making rulings on things that we
may see in the future may contradict what our rulings would be, are
we opening ourselves up to some sort of litigation saying, you know,
you made a decision on something that was a hunch or this or that,
and there is going to be statute that I can do this.
MR. KLATZKOW: You have a quasi-judicial hearing going
on right now. You have criteria to whether or not you're going to
approve it. That criteria's in your executive summary.
The concept of the East Naples overlay is not part of that. That
is outside this discussion. All right. If you're going to deny this, it's
not going to be based on a plan that may or may not be voted on. It's
going to be based on the criteria that's before you in the executive
summary.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But that's the basis that our staff
is bringing it to us.
June 27, 2023
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MR. KLATZKOW: I understand that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. I just --
MR. KLATZKOW: That's not the legal considerations but
that's staff's recommendation.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So secondly -- I'm sorry. I
was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I wanted the picture up there.
And I was just going to go full circle. And I know -- you know, this
might help you, Commissioner LoCastro. You know, if I took 10
people in a minivan 45 miles an hour down the road on Collier
Boulevard and we didn't tell them what those buildings were, I could
probably guarantee all 10 couldn't tell me what that was.
Now, people have a conception or idea what a storage unit looks
like because they've seen them in the past. You've got the cyclone
fences. You've got the elongated buildings. You've got the hundred
orange roll-up garage doors facing your interstate, you know, and
that's set in their minds.
But the one on the left almost looks like half of our elementary
schools we build here in the county. I mean visually, seriously.
I mean -- so I think what you're doing -- and the other part about
being within so many thousand feet of another storage unit, I don't
think that really falls under this jurisdiction, because this gentleman,
you know, he built the first one. He sold out in a month. So,
evidently, there's a need to the community for this type of business.
And he sees that, that he has an opportunity to provide that, again, for
the local community in a way that's not visually, you know, bad. I
mean, it is what it is.
And I can guarantee you that 10 people couldn't tell me what
June 27, 2023
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those buildings are if I drove them by there at 45 miles an hour. I
can guarantee it, if you didn't have signage out there.
MR. MULHERE: You have super restrictive architectural
design standards that require those buildings to look more like an
office building than anything else.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. So, you know, I kind of
was dumbfounded myself when I read that, you know, we were not
going to recommend, knowing that the Planning Commission -- I
wanted to have an opportunity to actually look at, you know, what
was going to be there, and it was the same owner. It wasn't a
competing element to somebody that was already there.
You know, I kind of have to -- you know, I have to support this.
I mean, I think it's the right place. It's the right look. It's the right
design. And the only people that live next to it are supportive
because they like the neighbor they already have. And jeopardizing
that and having somebody in there they might not like, you know, I
think they're trying to protect theirselves. So that's kind of how I
feel about it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you.
You know, for -- to coin the Chair's phrase, you hate it less. If
we could control the color of what was actually going to end up being
without those big, ugly, red -- orange doors and things, that would be
a nice thing, but we really can't.
My question is -- circumstances change. We have a nice
property owner now. He's been a good neighbor. We rezone this
piece of property to C-5. Why are we not asking for -- is it not
allowed for a C-3 conditional use request to do storage?
MR. MULHERE: It's not. C-4 conditional-use, C-5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that's why the rezone
goes. So my question is, can we condition this approval on the use
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and not -- and require a comeback if the property owner -- not owner
changes. But if the use changes, can we require that to be
stipulated?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
MR. MULHERE: I just want to point out, Commissioner, that
we've agreed to probably --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And while you're hunting
that --
MR. MULHERE: Right here. We've agreed to any number of
conditions. The square footage is limited. The setback is set in
place. The hours of operation are limited. The lighting is restricted.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I saw all of those things.
MR. MULHERE: So I just wanted to -- I mean, the only C-5
use we're asking for, I'm sorry, is the self-storage. No other C-5 use.
It's only that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So if this particular good
neighbor, good owner, good property owner sells the piece of
property, we're not opening Pandora's box for all of the uses under
C-5?
MR. MULHERE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It can only be as designed,
size, shape, color, a storage facility no matter who owns the piece of
property.
MR. MULHERE: Subject to these. I don't know about color.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then the other question I
had -- you may be able to answer it. Because -- I'm okay now,
because I was concerned that we were going to rezone it, and then it
sells, and we get to deal with whatever else is there.
Under the --
MR. KLATZKOW: You're also rezoning it to C-4.
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay. So the C-5 is limited --
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- but somebody could purchase the
property and put in a use for C-4.
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: So if you want to condition this rezoning
that they're going to be putting in a storage facility, like they're
selling this as, you can do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That, I think, would provide
for better protection for --
MR. MULHERE: On this lot.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the use for the
neighborhood --
MR. MULHERE: That's fine.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- on this particular lot.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Then I'll amend the motion to
approve it as a conditional use for storage unit only.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, not as conditional use, but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not a conditional use,
because we have to rezone the property to C-5.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, rezone it for a storage unit.
However it just maintains and bes a storage unit.
MR. KLATZKOW: Eliminate the C-4 rezone portion of this.
You're simply going to rezone it to C-5 limited to this storage unit but
no other uses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We want to eliminate the loophole.
Commissioner McDaniel's bringing up a great point. We want to
eliminate the possible loophole of a sale and then a blanket approval
for something we don't want there.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Or -- yes, it would be less
conducive --
MR. MULHERE: May I just make a comment?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't get to pick on the
property rights. The property rights travel with the zoning, and the
rezone opens that door for --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good point.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the utilization of the
property rights, and that's where I'm -- that's where I'm --
MR. MULHERE: I just wanted to point out, the reason that we
chose to rezone to C-4 with one C-5 limited to the self-storage was
that we felt that the C-4 district is in an activity center, provided a
better mix of uses for that last remaining lot that might actually meet
the desires of the East Naples Civic as opposed to C-3, which is much
more restrictive. That's why we put that in there.
We prohibited gas stations and convenience stores. Everything
else, depending on what happens with the East Naples Community
Plan, will be restricted. So I just wanted you to understand it wasn't,
you know, a big reach. There's only going to be one vacant lot if
this gets approved. And it seemed appropriate to go to C-4 in an
activity center.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And while I'm contemplating
that, the question is, with it being C-3 now, could the
applicant -- could the property owner, without a hearing, convert to
residential under the -- under the living local act?
MR. MULHERE: Live Local, yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Local, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Which then height
restrictions go out the window, size, shape, all those things, density
goes off the chart, traffic impacts, negative impacts?
MR. MULHERE: It's about 5.6 acres. So, yeah, you could do
June 27, 2023
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something. It wouldn't be very desirable, I wouldn't think, given the
configuration of those lots, but yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Certainly not as desirable.
So -- and thank you for that. I just -- I had that in my brain earlier
with regard to the moving -- or the living local statute that we --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So do you have a -- you know, my
question is, do you -- because everything you're saying has
significant merit. Do you have a better way of wording this motion
so that it does ensure that we're not opening up Pandora's box for
other possible things, you know, down the road? Is there a better
way to word this zoning-wise so that we are protected?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, clarification. Aren't there two lots
here? And one lot's going to be the storage center?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. And we don't know
what the other one is, but we're up-zoning it from C-3 to C-4.
MR. KLATZKOW: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: So that's -- so the issue isn't the -- the issue
isn't the lot that they're putting the storage on. The issue was the
other lot, and you have no idea what is going to go on there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, the issue is both.
Again, I got clarification on the C-5 use to be specifically for storage.
It does open up other uses under the C-4.
MR. MULHERE: In the future.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Zoning classifications
without -- and we don't have -- we don't know what those are.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't know what those
uses, in fact, are going to be. I'm not -- I'm not as concerned about
it -- there again, it's over on the corner, and -- so...
MR. MULHERE: I just want to point out, you don't know what
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other C-3 uses are going to go there. I mean, the district -- C-4 is a
more permissive district. If you felt comfortable restricting -- as Jeff
suggested, taking out the C-4 and allowing just the one C-5 use, we're
not going to object. There's only one lot left.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. MULHERE: But we just felt it gave a better mix of uses
for that lot.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You made a statement
earlier, Bob, about, you know, having to come back to the well, and if
we'd a known better, we would have rezoned it all in the first place
and so on. I'm not looking to cause that.
You have put prohibitive restrictions in the C-4 request to not
allow for a gas station, not allow for a convenience store, the other
listed C-4 uses. Could that -- could that site -- could that site be
converted to a high-density residential?
Mike? Mr. Bosi?
MR. BOSI: Any site that's zoned commercial can. It's
commercial.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And it's C-3.
MR. BOSI: And it's commercial whether it's C-1, C-2, C-3,
C-4, or C-5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. It doesn't get any
more because of C-4 as opposed to C-3 that it currently is.
MR. MULHERE: I'm sorry, Commissioner. Let me just read
the list of prohibited uses that we included with the rezone.
Amusement and recreation services outdoor, anything that would be
noise and -- automobile parking, automotive vehicle equipment
dealers, convenience stores with gas pumps, gasoline stations,
homeless shelters, hospitals, marinas, outdoor storage and materials,
pawn shops, repair services. Only allowed one fast-food restaurant
if, indeed, that goes on that parcel.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On the C-4?
MR. MULHERE: Yep, yep.
No building or structure shall exceed 35 feet. Because C-4
allows more height, we put that restriction in.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: And that looks like that's the end of the uses
we restricted. I think it's pretty restrictive.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think sufficiently it's
covered.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I really want to -- I want to
thank my colleagues here, because I know that this is a sore point
with me, storage units, but also, too, I'm a realist. I'm not here to
just -- you know, I cover my eyes and just say no to every storage
unit. Like I said, it's more about the location.
So I appreciate the healthy discussion here to make sure that if
this is something I hate less, that it's still as positively, you know,
done as possible. And then, like I say, putting it in the center of a
mixed-use activity center maybe saves another piece of real estate
somewhere else for it.
I don't know. Do my colleagues have any other questions?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think the motion that was
made is satisfactory, and I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I have -- one thing that
I would add -- and this might be semantics, okay, but humor me a bit.
It sounds like you have a very robust landscape plan, but I think to
our staff, the word "enhanced landscape" does mean something. So
I don't know if it needs to be put in writing somewhere or it's just I'm
saying it verbally and you're agreeing to it.
But in the discussions, if this does pass -- and it looks like it
will -- and we move forward, you know, I'll take the words out of the
citizen's mouth, because he's speaking for both of us, I really want to
June 27, 2023
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see robust -- and there already is in that area. You know, you go
down the road where they've built the Publix and everything. I
spend a lot of time in that area, and a lot of developers have really
gone above and beyond to not just make it look like a big, giant
industrial footprint.
So I want to make sure that we do go to the max. And I think
the words "enhanced landscape," to the County, do mean something.
So even though you have a laundry list of plants and everything, I'd
like that word injected into the verbiage of what you have there.
MR. MULHERE: I will.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And it might mean nothing. It
might mean you already have that. But if -- you know, when we do
sort of get to those details, I want to make sure that we've got
everything in there that allows you to lean as far forward on the
landscape as possible under the enhanced landscape category.
MR. MULHERE: I know staff won't want it to be too
subjective. They're going to want it to be very objective.
So I've done this before. I understand the term "enhanced
landscape buffer." We do exceed the code because that natural
preserve acts as a landscape buffer.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know, but that's nothing you've
done, so that's already back there.
MR. MULHERE: No, it's there. No, I agree.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The natural buffer.
MR. MULHERE: Along 41.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm not giving you credit for that.
MR. MULHERE: No, no. I understand. But what I'm trying
to say is the only opportunity is along 41.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. And I want you to do
enhanced landscape along that -- on 41.
MR. MULHERE: And so what I'm suggesting is that we agree
June 27, 2023
Page 103
to a -- we agree to a double hedgerow. The code requires a canopy
tree every 30 feet, so spaced one tree per 30 feet. You can put them
together, but that's the calculation for --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And you're doing what?
MR. MULHERE: We're going to do one per 25.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So is that -- does that fall
under "enhanced landscape"?
MR. BOSI: Yes.
MR. MULHERE: So that -- we'll have to put that in this
ordinance --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: -- as a requirement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One of the things I always say here
before we vote, or sometimes after we vote, is just because we vote
on it, we're not done. And so this is in District 1, and I want to
follow this one closely.
And, you know, Mr. Bosi, you and I will stay, you know,
plugged in. It's not a matter of just approving it and then saying, you
know, we're done. It's keeping an eye on it. We've approved, you
know, many projects, you know, up here that turned out to not be
great. The Onyx, you know, maybe the rock crushing lot. You
know, you could sit here and mention some things.
I want this to be a very successful project with enhanced
landscape. And it's a companion project to something that's already
there. It's in an area that is much more favorable than some of our
other storage units that can't be unbuilt.
So having said that, I've got a motion and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
June 27, 2023
Page 104
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. MULHERE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We will now break for lunch
unless, County Manager, did you have something?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. What time do you want us back?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry. Commissioner
Saunders, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was going to say what time
do we come back?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What do you-all think? Is 1:00
too soon? Fifty-three minutes for lunch so we keep moving? Okay.
Is that enough? Okay. We'll be back at 1.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:07 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're back, everyone.
Just a reminder to everyone, there's a lot of new people in here.
Please put your cell phones on silent and whatnot, so -- in case they
were on at lunch. We've got a lot to -- a lot to talk about here.
Okay. So we're going to move to 11A.
Item #11A
A PROJECT UPDATE ON THE COLLIER COUNTY MENTAL
HEALTH FACILITY AND STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO
PROCEED WITH THE DESIGN OF OPTION NUMBER ONE FOR
87 TOTAL BEDS (45 CSU, 30 ADULT MEDICARE/ACUTE AND
12 ESAC) WITH AN ESTIMATED CONSTRUCTION COST OF
June 27, 2023
Page 105
$44 MILLION (PROJECT NO. 50239) - MOTION TO APPROVE
BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Commissioner, that brings us to
Item 11A, our 1:00 time-certain. This is a recommendation to accept
a project update on the Collier County Mental Health facility and
staff recommendation to proceed with the design of Option No. 1 for
87 total beds: 45 CSU, 30 adult Medicare acute, and 12 ESAC, with
an estimated construction cost of $44 million.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manager, will begin the
presentation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. FINN: Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate the introduction.
Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager.
Today we're going to talk about the mental health facility. I
have some folks here. They're going to help us out, get through this.
Scott Burgess, the CEO of David Lawrence Center, is here.
He's here to speak to the development of the program for this facility.
I have Javier Salazar of RG Architects. He will be able to speak to
how his design is going to meet those programmatic objectives. Eric
Brackin from DeAngelis Diamond, the construction manager on this
job, is also here. Ayoub Al-Bahou, our principal project manager
from Facilities Management, and Claudia Roncoroni, senior project
manager, are the internal team on this.
The 87-bed design that's being recommended is kind of shown
on your -- on your screen at the moment. This is 87 beds. The -- it
is coded for the type of uses, and we'll have another schematic where
we can look at those uses in a little more depth.
The estimated construction cost only is 44 million, and that note
there says that includes some preliminary value engineering that's
June 27, 2023
Page 106
already been applied to this initial budget.
The project objective: The mental health facility is an
important community priority project endorsed by the voters in 2018
and identified as the number-one priority of the Behavioral Health Ad
Hoc Committee.
The facility will function as a central receiving facility for those
receiving services under both Baker and Marchman Acts and will
greatly increase mental health crisis support. The proposed new
facility will serve the mental health needs of Collier County's
expanding population and will serve to reduce demands currently
placed on the Collier County Sheriff's Office.
This is a little snippet of the project timeline. In March of '22,
the NTP, notice to proceed, was issued to RG Architects. In March
of '23, the construction manager contract was approved by the Board,
and we're back to you today, on June 27th, seeking the Board's
authorization to move forward with the design of option, in this case,
Option No. 1.
You'll see there, tentatively, fall of '24, what's identified there is
guarantee maximum price number one. That would be the price for
the site work. Our hope is to have the site work rolling before the
final design on the vertical construction is finalized, bringing us to a
spring of '25 very tentative guaranteed maximum price approval for
that element of the project.
Project programming and master planning, an important part of
this is, in fact, the programming and master planning. I'm going to
go through a few slides with you real quick, and if there are any
questions on the programming at this point, Mr. Burgess, perhaps,
could help us.
These comments deal with adult beds rather than children's
beds. The average number of adults under the Marchman Act at the
Sheriff's Office jail is approximately 10 beds per month. The
June 27, 2023
Page 107
average number of adults within the existing David Lawrence Center
facility is approximately 29 per day. The peak number of occupied
beds experienced by DLC is 40 beds per day. The existing
programmatic needs for beds based on today's demand is somewhere
between 39 and 50.
Twelve emergency service assessment center, ESAC, beds are
required with all the options that are going to be presented to you
today. And the last bullet deals with the number of county residents
that are -- that are forced to seek mental health services out of the
county.
Project construction estimates are part of looking at our options.
The construction manager, DeAngelis Diamond, started developing
construction budgets immediately after the contract was approved.
They developed an initial detailed construction estimate based on the
30 percent construction drawings in the amount of 48 million. That
was for the 87-bed design Option No. 1 as we're calling it today.
And they used an extensive library of subcontractors to arrive at that
number.
The $44 million construction estimate for Option No. 1 we're
talking about today includes preliminary value engineering on that
original $48 million number. In addition to the 87-bed option being
recommended, Option 1, staff is providing a 72-bed option, Option 2,
and a 57-bed option identified as Option 3.
This schematic is that of Option 1. This represents 87 total
beds. This is the $44 million estimated construction cost. And you
can see that the elements include CSU beds, and those are 45 in
number; Medicare beds, 15 in number; and acute beds, 15 in number;
as well as the 12 emergency beds. The area of this option is 60,000
square foot.
Option 2, total beds, 72, 45 CSU beds, 15 Medicare/hospital
beds, and the 12 ESAC or emergency beds.
June 27, 2023
Page 108
Option 3 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's the square footage of
Option 2?
MR. FINN: The square footage is 52- -- fifty-two-five.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. FINN: And this option is estimated at $39 million.
Option 3, total beds is 57, $34 million in estimated cost, and this
facility would be limited to 45 CSU beds and 15 emergency beds. I
will say that staff and the team, more to the point, the entire project
delivery team, is recommending the bare minimum that our delivery
team would even consider would be Option 2. Staff is
recommending and the delivery team is recommending Option No. 1.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What was the square footage of 3?
Did I miss it on this slide? I was looking for it.
MR. FINN: I think -- if we could, Mr. Chairman, I think this
slide provides -- provides all that information for you --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. FINN: -- as well as a cost per square foot of all the
options. If I -- if I may start. At the left-hand side, when we came
to you in February, relative to the zoning, we did not have the
construction manager on board, and we were using estimates that
probably were a little bit inadequate.
At that point in time, our estimated cost was $29 million for
construction. Unfortunately, when we brought the professionals in,
or the experts in, more to the point, those estimates -- those estimates
have risen quite a bit. In large part, we're presenting you multiple
options because of that substantial increase in cost so that the Board
actually does have some options to consider.
The second column in from the left deals with the Option No. 1.
Option No. 1, as I mentioned before, 45 adult CSU beds, 15 acute
beds, 15 Medicare beds, 12 ESAC beds, with an estimated cost of
June 27, 2023
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43 million. And as we talked about 60,000 square foot at a pretty
substantial cost per square foot, reflecting the fact that the 30 -- 30
combined acute Medicare beds are actually hospital beds in nature
that we're providing dining -- kitchen and dining facilities to a
hospital-level construction standard.
One of the questions that we want to make sure that is
understood is what's going to happen at the existing David Lawrence
Center campus after the new facility is built. The existing facility
will continue to have 15 existing children CSU beds, continue to have
15 detox beds. Three existing emergency beds will become
children's emergency beds. And what is left is a potential there
because they still have some real estate under the roofs for
30 -- 30-bed future expansion subject to licensing and program needs.
And that may seem a little confusing to you, and if you're a little
bit confused, I'm going to make sure that I drive you right over the
edge with this little I-chart.
On the left-hand side is the David Lawrence Center campus as it
exists today or before the facility's built, and you can see they
presently have 30 adult CSU beds there. And what we've tried to do
is just show you how that -- how that's going to travel into the future,
and those will become future bed capacity once this new facility is
constructed.
One of our most important considerations is the fiscal impact.
The project is currently at 30 percent design. As I just mentioned to
you, we have three design/construction options, as we talked about in
Slide 10. The estimated budgets here are set against the
programmed amount of surtax money. If we look at Option 1, the
programmed amount was $25 million. Approximately three goes to
engineering design and architectural services. Set against the
construction estimate leaves us a funding estimate or a funding delta
of about $22 million.
June 27, 2023
Page 110
There are some other considerations that we need to -- we need
to include in our discussion. There is an estimated 4.4, and that's a
percentage of the construction cost that's going to be necessary for
furniture, fixtures, and equipment for the facility. That is not
reflected in the $44 million number that we're discussing today and
looking for direction on.
There's also likely to be an ongoing operating cost. The initial
estimates provided by David Lawrence Center after -- after
considering program revenue and grant sources, they anticipate a
$4 million funding shortfall that has to be covered when this facility
is fully operational.
As a follow-on on that, the County Manager and myself met
with key community leaders on these unfunded aspects of the
program. We met with considerable success in those discussions.
We still haven't achieved an actual hard commitment on community
funding for this important project, but we're hopeful -- while hope
isn't necessarily a good strategy, we're hopeful that we can achieve
some of those funding goals through community sources.
The fiscal impact as it involves the surtax funding, because of
the timing of when we're going to achieve our -- the overall
community-wide $490 million on the program, is going to allow us to
run the collections through December of this year. Relative to what
we expect to receive against our programmed 420 million, we expect
to see $491 million in surtax, leaving us with about a $71 million
favorable delta for us to move forward with some of these critical
projects. A portion -- a portion of that delta can be used to fund all
or some of this project delta we're talking about today.
I bring us to the recommendation. Our recommendation is to
get authorization to proceed with the Option 1 design for a total of
87 -- 87 beds.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got Commissioner
June 27, 2023
Page 111
Hall lit up. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Finn, can you go back to that
slide that shows the original and then all the options with the changes
of money. No, keep going.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The slide that had the proposal,
which was like 29 million that shows --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right there. That one right there.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So in the beginning we had 54,000
square feet that included 87 beds. Then Option No. 1 jumps up to
60,000 square feet with the same 87 beds. So that's 60,000 square
feet at 732 a foot. That's 4.4 million. And I was just -- I'm just
asking why the increase of square footage and the increase of the 4.4.
I can see the difference in money. Why the square footage?
MR. FINN: And I'm going to bring up Javier Salazar up here to
speak -- to speak to the actual technical way he met the program
needs.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
MR. SALAZAR: Good afternoon. Javier Salazar with RG
Architects.
So really, really good question. So for those of you that are not
familiar with the design process, you start with the programming
requirements, right, which is just pretty much listing you're going to
need these type of spaces with this type of program associated with it.
And then you would create some, you know, grossing factors
associated with it, right, so that we can quantify, you know,
circulation and so on.
The specific need -- so what you saw in the 54 was the initial
program itself. So there wasn't really any spatial design associated
with it. So then once you translate that into an actual design, then
these type of facilities are inherently not very efficient from a
June 27, 2023
Page 112
circulation perspective, because you've got to be able to lock all the
different components and have free access individually from the
other ones, and that's where that bump happened from the 54 to the
60. So the 60 is based on an actual spatial -- spatial design as
opposed to the 54 is just programmatically specific.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Gotcha.
MR. SALAZAR: Does that answer your question, sir?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, sir. Thank you.
MR. SALAZAR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: A quick question for
Mr. Finn. You said the sales tax collections will end in December of
this year, and that's because we will have exceeded the 490 million
that was originally programmed. Seventy million of that 490- went
to the cities, and you have 71 million extra over the 490-.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So the question is, does any
of that 71 million have to be shared with the cities?
MR. FINN: The distribution of the surtax occurs at the state
level. So this is independent of the cities relative to receiving our
share. So let me do it another way. The state distributes the surtax,
so the cities will also get their share but directly through the state.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So we will get -- we
have an extra 71 million. And I say "extra" in quotes, because
obviously everything's gone up, all the other projects. But you're
sure that we have $71 million over and above what we had
anticipated?
MR. FINN: That is -- that is what our estimates show us, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. I just want to make
sure we didn't have to -- that the number might have been lower
because of the share for the cities. Thank you.
June 27, 2023
Page 113
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any other questions?
(No response.)
MS. PATTERSON: I've got nobody lit up here. Anything?
MR. FINN: Would you like to hear from the folks that have
joined us to speak on this item at this time? I know we have a
number of speakers, including folks from David Lawrence.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. How many public speakers
do we have on?
MR. MILLER: Eight.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's hear from public
speakers, because they might bring up something that then --
MR. MILLER: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- you know, the people that are in
the room might want to address, so...
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Father Michael Orsi, and
he'll be followed by Dudley Goodlette.
FATHER ORSI: I'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
I have been in contact with many people who have very, very
serious mental problems. I have been long associated with St.
Matthew's House. We can no longer continue without the help of
the David Lawrence Center. This is a wonderful partnership that we
have.
I'm also at our hospitals practically every day and go to the
emergency room, and, inevitably, there is a sheriff's car outside. It's
a revolving door of the Sheriff's Department bringing people in and
then bringing people out, releasing them back into the community.
And even some of the sheriffs -- the deputy sheriffs say to me,
Father, we need a facility to put these people in, and so, too, the
nurses. They tell me the same thing, and the doctors.
I'm also involved with Neumann high school, Catholic high
school. So I come in contact with a lot of the students, and, believe
June 27, 2023
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me, these young people have some very, very serious problems, and,
from time to time, we have used the David Lawrence Center, but we
do need more help for students who are suffering drugs, alcohol,
depression and suicidal tendencies.
In a county like ours, Collier County, there is no reason why we
should not have a facility that is suitable for the needs of this county;
it should be a five-star facility because that's who we are, and the
money is here. The money is here. Gentlemen, you know the
money is here. I know the money is here.
And I'm not letting David Lawrence Center off the hook. As
you well know, I'm not always supportive of everything being handed
out by the government. So there has to be a partnership. And I've
spoken with Mr. Burgess, Chairman Begar (phonetic). And the
goodwill that these gentlemen express and the need that we have, I
am sure that we can expeditiously put Option 1 into effect as soon as
possible.
Let me tell you one more thing. I don't know if I'm allowed to
mention God at a public forum, but I will. I was at St. Matthew's
House, and whenever we needed something -- and, of course, we're a
religious-based organization, faith-based organization -- I would
always say, and our director would say, and some of the board
members, if we need it, God will give it to us. And I'm telling you,
gentlemen, we need it, and God will give it to us.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dudley Goodlette. He'll
be followed by Trista Meister. Mr. Goodlette's been ceded three
additional minutes from Jessica Siefer, who is sitting right there.
Mr. Goodlette.
MR. GOODLETTE: Good afternoon. Dudley Goodlette, and
I'm here in sort of two roles here. First I'm going to read a letter that
each of you has received from Garrett Richter, but I think the people
June 27, 2023
Page 115
in the audience and the public would benefit from hearing what he
has to say. He couldn't be here today, so I'm the poor substitute.
And I will have a couple of comments after reading his letter as well.
This is addressed, of course, to the Board of County
Commissioners. Garrett Richter is the Florida market president of
First Foundation Bank.
Dear Chairman LaCosta -- LoCastro, I'm sorry.
Commissioners, each of you, along with the people in this room, all
have at least one thing in common. We are interested in the
well-being of our community and in the well-being of our citizens.
The interest motivated each of you to run for public office. It
motivates you each day that you are called on to make a decision, a
decision that will improve our community. I admire your dedication
and appreciate your commitment.
The discussion you are being asked to consider is whether or not
we acknowledge our shortsightedness when we approved the partial
funding for the behavioral health receiving center and revise the
amount to reflect tremendous and unplanned delays and to participate
in the ongoing operational costs of this extremely needed facility.
It's been said before that we have no primary mental health
facilities in our community. The David Lawrence Center and the
Collier County Jail -- our county jail is entirely funded with tax
dollars. Our county will -- our county jail is the most expensive and
least effective means of treating mental illness and the impact of such
to our community.
The David Lawrence Center, on the other hand, is a highly
respected treatment center that our community is proud of, and it
remains the most effective and efficient way to meet the mental
health challenges in our community.
I'm confident that most everybody in the room today has been
directly or indirectly impacted by mental health or addiction issues.
June 27, 2023
Page 116
When we hear of the challenges that the David Lawrence Center
takes on, we often whisper about them, and when these issues
directly confront us or someone we love, we pray about them.
We have all heard the saying that hindsight is 20/20. In
hindsight, we should have foreseen the rise in costs of the significant
delays associated with the receiving center, but we didn't. I hope
we'll use foresight today as you consider the request by the county
staff and the key stakeholders deeply involved in this project for
adjusting funding and future operational support. Foresight calls for
this facility to be completed without downsizing to maximize its
immediate impact and in realization that in a continuing growing
community, these needs will continue to explode.
The need to treat every form of mental stress and rehabilitation
in our community will always be a mandate. How we decide to
fulfill that mandate will separate us. Let's be proactive today and not
reactive tomorrow. Please speak out in favor of this necessary
change, please vote for the change and, finally, please know that your
community's service is appreciated and is making a long-term
difference.
If, "learn, earn, and return" is a good recipe for life, and I believe
it is, learn from our past shortsightedness. Let's earn a reputation
that we are proud of, and I thank you for returning your talents and
experience to this community.
Thank you for your support.
I will merely add to those comments that I have had a chance to
review your staff report. I think Mr. Finn has done an excellent job
of outlining what the challenges are, and I would hope that after you
have an opportunity to review the comments from others that you
will hear from and to -- and having carefully scrutinized the report
from your staff, I hope that you will move in the direction of
succeeding in that regard.
June 27, 2023
Page 117
And many of you may know, I had -- was pretty involved in the
passage of the one -- the penny sales tax a few years ago, and
it's -- the fact that it has exceeded the expected -- in a year ahead of
time the expected resources that are going to be available is a real
credit. And I think that going forward, the David Lawrence Center
and the hospitals will continue to try to raise the level of interest in
the part of those institutions for funding this going forward, and we
appreciate all that you are doing.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Trista Meister. She'll be
followed by Ray Steadman.
MS. MEISTER: Hi, thank you. I'm reading a letter on behalf
of Richard Weisberg.
Dear Commissioners, my name is Rich Weisberg. I'm a
commissioner for mental health and substance abuse for the State of
Florida. Unfortunately, I cannot be here today because I have a
finance subcommittee for the State today at 1:00, which conflicted
with the time-certain change.
I urge you today to pass the increased funds needed for the
David Lawrence Mental Health Center Project. There have been
many obstacles over the last five-plus years to get here. Five-plus
years ago, we as a community voted in a penny tax specifically for
this reason. It is my understanding this tax has been so successful it
is ending a year early. It is also my understanding that the funds are
available from the penny tax for the additional funds needed for the
project.
This building allows for the maximum increase in bed capacity,
which is critically important for our great and growing community.
My family has experienced this firsthand with our middle
daughter who, when Baker Acted, slept on the floor at David
June 27, 2023
Page 118
Lawrence Center. Had she been sent to Miami, who knows what
might have happened. This week she graduated in nursing at the top
of her class, all due to David Lawrence Center and the hard work my
daughter has put in.
I would like to take a moment and reference the 2023
Community Conversation Report on the table of Southwest Florida.
This is a regional initiative among the Collier Community
Foundation, Charlotte Community Foundation, and the
Collaboratory.
The issue ranked No. 2 out of 10 as most urgent for Southwest
Florida is mental health and substance abuse. It also ranks No. 2 in
Collier and Lee County.
As a member of the state -- Florida State Commission for
Mental Health and Substance Abuse and the Finance Subcommittee, I
want to be able to proudly reference my community, how my
community, Collier County, is working together and doing their part.
Lastly, it is the moral thing to do. Sometimes the moral thing to
do gets overlooked and pushed aside. Please do not do this today.
Please, I ask you as a Collier County resident, as a husband and a
father, to approve the additional funds for this project.
Thank you very much for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ray Steadman. He'll be
followed by April Donahue.
MR. STEADMAN: Thank you, Commissioners, for taking the
time to hear me today. My name is Ray Steadman, and I currently
serve as the vice president of programs for St. Matthew's House.
As many of you know, St. Matthew's House serves the
homeless, addicted, and food-insecure populations of Collier County
and has since 1988. St. Matthew's House has served 1,865
individuals in the past 12 months, and 36 percent of those individuals
have a diagnosed mental illness. Many of those not in the 36 percent
June 27, 2023
Page 119
experience symptoms of mental health and go undiagnosed while
living in a state of homelessness.
Thankfully, we have a provider in our community, the David
Lawrence Center, that assesses and treats the mentally ill homeless of
Collier County, those housed in our care and those not housed, by
providing stability and ongoing therapy, treatment, and medications.
The success of St. Matthew's House residential programs is
often spoke of in a positive light at many events and diverse settings
throughout Southwest Florida, mentioned by some of you in the
room, city officials of Naples, former residents, current residents of
Collier County, program graduates, the news media, and family of
those who have been in our care; however, the success we enjoy can
never be attributed to our efforts alone. We rely heavily on the
partnerships like the one with the David Lawrence Center that
provide a level of excellence that our reputation reflects and our
residents enjoy.
Many of the residents of St. Matthew's House are often shared
patients of the David Lawrence Center. Thankfully, we have not
experienced a disruption in care due to the increased demand being
placed on the mental health provider. Strong community partners
like the David Lawrence Center are paramount to the success of the
rehabilitative efforts of St. Matthew's House programs.
We are standing with the David Lawrence Center and echo their
petition for greater capacity to address the needs of community
members who are in crisis due to acute impairment, an episode of
mania, or thoughts of self-harm, just to name a few.
As a representative of St. Matthew's House, we would ask you
to vote to proceed with a recommendation for Option 1 to accept this
project update benefiting the mentally ill of Collier County. Thank
you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker April Donahue, will be
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joining us via Zoom, and she will be followed by Jason Cooper.
April, you have three minutes.
MS. DONAHUE: Thank you, and good afternoon, Chair and
Commissioners. I'm April Donahue, executive director of Collier
County Medical Society, and I speak on behalf of the CCMS board of
directors.
We would echo the previous comments offered and support the
request for an increase in funding the new Collier County mental
health facility building, and ask you to approve the proposed option,
as these are our excess surtax funds and the need for mental health
beds in our community is so great, the CCMS board believes that
choosing the option for the 87 beds, as previously planned, is the best
choice for the health and safety of our community.
This long-term investment is a more efficient means of spending
our tax dollars on mental health and will help prevent us from getting
further and further behind the ever-increasing demand.
Thank you for your time today.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jason Cooper, and he will
be followed by Edward Morton.
MR. COOPER: Good afternoon, Chair and esteemed County
Commissioners. My name's Jason Cooper. I'm the assistant
director of development for Home Base Florida Veteran and Family
Care.
Today I represent General Fred Franks, a man of extraordinary
service and honor, and our honorary director. General Franks is a
graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, a
seasoned veteran of the Vietnam War, and the strategic mind behind
the Left Hook maneuver that brought us to victory in Desert Storm.
His leadership commanded over 150,000 troops and revolutionizing
mechanized warfare.
Despite a debilitating injury, his service spanned over 35 years,
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earning him too many prestigious awards to name today.
General Franks has been a member of our community here in
Collier County for the last 25 years, contributing to the welfare of our
veteran community. Unfortunately, he was not able to join us here
today but has trusted me to communicate our endorsement for
increasing the funding for the construction of the Collier County
Central Receiving Facility.
The most recent VA annual suicide prevention report underlines
this urgency. Published in September of 2022, it reveals that the rate
of veteran suicide in 2020 was 57 percent higher than the average
adult. Here in Collier County, one in four adult suicides is a veteran.
Our local clinical programs reported a record number of
veterans and their families seeking behavioral health assistance. Our
partners at David Lawrence Center, under the leadership of Scott
Burgess, have made significant progress with this project.
We firmly believe that this facility, approved for the
infrastructure surtax initiative, is a priority within our community.
The Collier County Central Receiving Facility will provide
comprehensive care to those with mental health emergencies and
address the invisible wounds of service. This is crucial in preventing
the devastating consequences of untreated mental health conditions
such as suicide.
As a combat veteran myself, as is most of our staff, we
understand the true toll of service and sacrifice. When our men and
women take the oath to serve, they trust that we will be there for
them when they return home. Your support is critical in fulfilling
this implied trust in making this central -- the mental health central
receiving facility a reality.
The center will ensure veterans and our community can access
the care they deserve through their service and sacrifice for us all.
Thank you for your commitment to our veteran community.
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Together we can make a profound difference in the lives of those
who have selflessly served in our country. Let us be measured by
how we support our most vulnerable and our veterans.
Mahatma Gandhi once said, the true measure of any society can
be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. Our actions
today will echo this sentiment.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final registered speaker on this item is
Edward Morton.
MR. MORTON: Good afternoon.
I think we've heard a lot about square footage and dollars and
cents. I should preface everything by saying, I'm also a veteran. I
have seen up close and personal, having served on active duty from
1969 to 1972 as a captain in the United States Army, all the rigors of
not only war, but the toll that it takes on human beings.
Human dignity is very hard to describe. It's very hard to define.
It's a lot like obscenity. We know it when we see it. We feel it.
It's part of our fiber of our DNA. It's what we believe -- what we
believe in ourselves, of what we stand for, what we represent.
I would like to think that our community -- as I look around the
country and I see the ravages of human dignity and I see homeless
camps and I see veterans killing themselves and people from all
walks of life suffering from the rigors and the problems of human and
mental illness, behavioral health, I would like to think I live within a
community -- and have for the past 50 years in a community that
prides itself on not just keeping up with but advancing the cause of
human dignity by working together to take care of all of us, from our
young to our old.
As vice chairman of the board of Florida Gulf Coast University,
I see every day and hear every day the challenges faced by our young
students and by some of our older students and the rigors of academia
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and the pressure placed on people.
I've also been the CEO, as most of you know, for 35 years, CFO
or CEO of NCH. I've chaired the Chamber of Commerce. I've been
around this community my entire adult life other than my military
service.
So I implore you, please allow us to plan for the future, allow us
to provide for the dignity of every human being that resides in Collier
County, allow us for the opportunity to provide both behavioral and
mental health. This entire community needs your support, and I
would ask for it today.
Thank you very much for everything that you're doing for this
community. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was our final speaker, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to -- I'm going to
just lead off unless somebody had a question. But I don't see
anybody lit up here.
I'll just say to my colleagues, let's not make a mistake here
today. You know, this is -- this is a great investment of our dollars,
and I would hate to skimp on a facility that's long overdue.
And a lot of people spoke about veterans, but this is a facility
that's going to help our entire community across the Board. So, I
mean, this is a no-brainer for me. I've seen us put money in certain
directions over the years and currently sometimes where we scratch
our head. This isn't one of them.
So to me, you know, it's disappointing the costs that have gone
up, but that's not something we can control. It's nobody's fault in
this room. Construction costs have risen across the board. But
when it comes to mental health, I hope all my colleagues agree we
want to measure twice, cut once, and not skimp on a facility that a
couple years down the road, our replacements are sitting up here
saying would have, could have, should have.
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So I don't know if I've got -- Commissioner Saunders is lit up
here, but, you know, I'll make a motion to approve Option 1, you
know, with -- with no reservations.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, I'll start off by
seconding your motion. I agree with everything that you just said.
If we're going to do this, we want to do it right, and the right way to
do it is Option 1. That's building for the future. And the folks that
spoke today, they were very elegant -- eloquent, not elegant,
eloquent. They were elegant, too, but that's what I meant.
And, you know, they spoke from the heart, and I think you did,
too, Mr. Chairman, that this is something that is really needed. This
is something that will serve the citizens of Collier County that are in
need of these service. It will help our Sheriff's Department in how
they have to deal with mental health issues, but, most importantly, it's
going to help those people that need these services, so I'm pleased to
second your motion.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, if I may.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, ma'am.
MS. PATTERSON: I'm sorry. We failed to recognize that
Sheriff Rambosk is here as well as Scott Burgess, and we weren't
sure if you would like to invite them up to just say a few words
before you finalize your discussion at whatever point you see it
appropriate to do so.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Not really. No, I'm just kidding.
Well, I'd offer to them if they would like to make some comments. I
don't feel like I feel the negative mojo from any of my colleagues.
So I would say Sheriff and Scott, you know, the floor is yours if
you would like to say something.
One of the pieces of guidance, though, I will give the county
staff is, you know, this is a big undertaking. This is a big dollar
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figure. And so if it does pass here, you know, we've had projects
where, you know, down the road, then the County Attorney was
telling us we didn't get the best bang for our buck.
So even though we're voting on the -- you know, the Option 1
and not cutting any corners, let's make sure that we spend the
taxpayer dollars wisely. You know, that's a nice big, fat, round
figure of 44 million but, you know, we've had other projects that
were very expensive and then a year later, we didn't feel like we got
the best bang for buck.
This is not a facility where we want to misappropriate funds or
not get our full dollars' worth. But I think there's so many people
involved in this project, there's so much oversight, that I don't believe
that's going to happen. And we have a contractor that definitely has
a great reputation here in the community.
But Mr. Burgess or Sheriff Rambosk, either one of you, the floor
is yours if you'd like to make a comment and talk us out of anything.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good afternoon, Chair and Board, and
that's what I'm concerned of. It's -- you know, I know all of your
commitment. I mean, you know, if you look back two years, the
commitment that you as a Board made, along with the partners here,
to create a strategic plan to address mental health issues, one of the
elements of that was more resources, more services. That's kind of
where this came from.
So as I mentioned to you during our budget review, that I would
recommend to you, and still do, Option No. 1, based on the need in
our community. And on that I'm just going to leave it alone because
you're all headed in the direction that I believe is in the best interest
of Collier County and its residents.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Burgess, did you care to make any statements from the
podium?
June 27, 2023
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MR. BURGESS: No. I will allow you to continue,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I was going to say, after
hearing from the Sheriff, now I'm kind of on the fence.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then, Commissioner Hall, you're
on deck, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And I'm -- I'm going to say it out loud. The need is real.
There's no argument that the need is real. I would like to have
greater assurance as to how we're going to pay for this.
I saw, when Mr. Finn was slipping through the slides, there's a
4-plus-million-dollar deficit in operating funds that are going to be
requisite. Right now in the infancy stages of this project,
where -- and I don't know where the -- I thought there was 25 million
originally appropriated in the surtax, and then it bumped to 29 here in
these slides. No?
MS. PATTERSON: No. Here comes Ed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So there's -- I have a
$19 million deficit in the estimated construction costs at this stage
today. They are not going down, those construction costs.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. So I'll answer a little, and
then I'll hand it over to Ed. We have been meeting for the last
several weeks, as was indicated by some of the speakers, about
exactly these things.
Obviously, we need to do the things we need to do to keep this
project moving, very important. It's already -- you know, it's been
this long where we have not gone to construction due to the
constraints of zoning and other things.
However, facing down these cost escalations, amongst other
things, we have had some scope adjustment and things like that, all
that have been brought to the Board. We're facing a much larger
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project than initially anticipated very early on by the voters, but the
need is not different. It's getting greater every day.
So we did sit down with our partners and have had really good
conversations that this is a "Collier County as a county" problem.
This isn't just a Collier County Government problem as far as how
we get over these funding hurtles.
And so our plan is to continue to meet and to look at how we
can partner. Now, as far as the construction goes, as we get further
into design, it will open more doors for us to pursue money other than
the surtax. That's definitely an option. But any ways that we can
leverage additional grant dollars to put towards the construction is
something that we and David Lawrence are committed to doing
together so that if we could shrink down the amount of overage from
the surtax that has to be consumed, that's a possibility.
We have viewed three projects as being the priority projects for
any surtax overage. We've discussed all of them with you. That is
the Sheriff's forensics building, this mental health central receiving
facility, and, obviously, the veterans' nursing home that we discussed
today. So that is how we've positioned it to you-all as far as the
consumption of those additional surtax dollars. But, again, pursuing
grants and other funding sources.
On the furniture, fixtures, and equipment, and on the ongoing
funding of the facility, we also have had conversations with our
partners about that where people can step up to help us. And there's
no amount that's too small. So isn't -- we are not looking for one
entity to come in and take the entire amount, but any amounts that
people can contribute -- our partners in the hospital -- we'll be
continuing to have those conversations as we -- as we firm up these
budgets, as we look at this construction cost, and as we would -- what
it looked like what it -- to operate -- the true cost of operating the
facility.
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So these are things you're going to continue to hear from us.
We have heard you loud and clear, and we will continue to work
through that to bring every funding opportunity to the table to bring
this important project home.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I've got to like that
2016 and -- the need was as prevalent then as it is now, and our
community hasn't done -- I'm going to support this effort, by the way,
today. I'm going to vote -- I'm going to vote for us to move forward.
But it's -- and I say this: There are other ways of accomplishing the
service of this need. They have been proposed, and I would like to
know -- I would like to see some -- and I don't want -- you know,
Mr. Morton talked about the -- I believe Ed did. I think you were
talking about the morality of what it is that we're doing and how
we're moving forward and satisfying this dire need for our
community.
One of the -- one of the circumstances that I learned early on
was that our jail facilities were the largest mental institution that
Collier County currently owns and operates.
And for me, what I would like to see is a comparison with
regard to the offset of those expenses in relationship to the benefit of
a central receiving facility and the treatment afforded to those
patients offsetting the exposure that we have in our jail system. The
sheriff and I agreed early on that there was little to no rehabilitation
that came with incarceration, little to -- little to no rehabilitation that
came with incarceration.
So the -- I can certainly see the value. I can see the human need
and aspect there, but -- and it doesn't come with a "but," but it comes
with a "but," and that is we have to be accountable for what it is that
we're doing. And it has -- it has to have validity over and above the
human aspect. It has to be -- there has to be a value attributable so
that we're not just continually creeping forward with an increase in
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expenses and an increase in operations and an increase over -- across
the board.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. And we can work on that
analysis for you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall and then
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just want to go on record saying I
don't want to get in God's way.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Chicken.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not me, not no way, not no how.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's scared.
FATHER ORSI: You better be, too.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just real quickly, this
morning Senate President Passidomo was here. She was talking
about how this past session, her focus was workforce
housing/affordable housing, and she did a tremendous job in bringing
some very significant legislation to the floor and ultimately being
signed by the governor to address that issue, and I think that effort
will pay off in terms of tremendous numbers of workforce and
affordable housing units going up very quickly.
But then she said, as we were talking about the veterans' nursing
home, that this coming year, she was going to dedicate her time to
health care and to making sure that Floridians have access to quality
care.
So the message there is we have an advocate that is the Senate
President, we have a lobbyist that is very effective, and now we have
a staff that has a mission to seek funding from all sources possible.
Dudley Goodlette and I had the opportunity to serve in the
legislature back in the old days, and we can both attest to the fact that
the legislature likes to fund projects where there's a significant
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amount of local funding. This is one where it would be hard to top
in terms of local funding. So I think you'll be successful in -- and I
know Mr. Goodlette will be out there helping, and I certainly will as
well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I just want to add before I
call for the vote, so we've had a lot of people that have come to the
podium talking about how this facility is long overdue and required
and how much they will utilize it from, you know, St. Matthew's
House saying how important it is that they utilize it, our hospitals in
town, how much they utilize it, our Sheriff's Office. I was going to
mentioned Senator Passidomo, exactly her comments.
And then, obviously, this is a county facility, but, you know, it's
in partnership with working closely with David Lawrence Center,
but, obviously, this is a big advantage for you.
So, you know, I've just mentioned a lot of very generous groups,
and I'm thinking of just how impressive our community, our
philanthropic community, was to fund the Baker Senior Center, how
people stepped forward, and the important mission of that facility.
This, to me, is something that is, you know -- not to say that the
Senior Center isn't important, but this is at that much higher level
when it comes to significant need.
So I won't put Mr. Goodlette on the spot, but he represents a
circle of people that have cared about this community for a long time.
I enjoy driving on your road, sir.
But I know that there's people in this room and outside of this
room, to include Senator Passidomo, that to find that delta, especially
when we committed to the blue ribbon option, I think that sends a
signal that we're committed, but we need some assistance.
So all these people that are going to benefit and utilize, you
know, this facility, you know, our challenge to you is step forward
and make this a true community project. We're making the tough
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decision here on how to best use taxpayer dollars. But as
Commissioner McDaniel said, we have a couple of deltas. And so if
this is truly going to be a community project where we're all standing
arm in arm and cutting a blue ribbon, money needs to come from
multiple sources. And so we have time to do that, but, you know,
we're making a big decision here.
So having said that, I've got a motion -- oh, I'm sorry. I've got
Commissioner Daniel lit up -- McDaniel. Sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is a comment. I don't
want to belabor the point, but while I have you all in the room, one of
the things that our community's direly in deficit of is adolescent care.
And so any expansion that you have the capacity of putting in place,
take care of the pipeline that's feeding our adult system. That will
reduce the requisites on the adult system.
So as you're moving forward, focus on the adolescent
community. One of the most dysfunctional facilities that we have is
the operations over at the DJJ. And no slant on the folks that are in
there working, but Mr. Burgess and I have talked about this at length,
the Sheriff and I talked about this at length, and the dire need for our
community for a facility for our adolescent population.
And if you want a long-term societal shift, work with
the -- work with the young that are going to feed that adult pipeline,
and you won't have the requisite of these cost overruns. That's just a
little take-home.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And to Mr. Finn, who's hiding in
the back -- I'm looking at you -- on time on budget, or early and
cheaper. As my grandmother would say, "capisce"?
MR. FINN: Copy that, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've got a motion and a
second. All in favor of Option 1?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Father Orsi will now be passing
around a basket for a collection. Just so you all know, this doesn't
count for Sunday church. He always tells me, if there's no
collection, he'll see you on Sunday.
Okay. County Manager, we're -- we go to 11B?
MS. PATTERSON: Nope, we're going to -- sorry?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are we going to 11B?
MS. PATTERSON: No, we're going back to 9C.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ah, okay. I knew we were
jumping around.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. 9C is a recommendation --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's wait till the room
clears.
All right. Go ahead, Ms. Patterson.
Item #9C
AN ORDINANCE CREATING THE UNPAVED PRIVATE ROAD
EMERGENCY REPAIR MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT
BY AUTHORIZING A LEVY OF NOT TO EXCEED ONE (1.0)
MIL OF AD VALOREM TAXES PER YEAR. (THIS ITEM WAS
CONTINUED FROM THE FEBRUARY 28, 2023, AND MARCH
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28, 2023, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONER’S MEETINGS)
- MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE AUGUST MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO
MS. PATTERSON: 9C is a recommendation that the Board
adopts an ordinance creating the unpaved private road emergency
repair municipal service taxing unit by authorizing a levy of not to
exceed one mill of ad valorem taxes per year.
This item was continued from the February 28th, 2023, and the
March 28th, 2023, Board of County Commissioners meeting.
Ms. Trinity Scott, your department head from Transportation
Management Services Department, is here to present.
MS. SCOTT: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Trinity Scott.
Following our meeting in March, the Board directed
Transportation Management Services to go back and work with
Commissioner McDaniel to kind of iron out some of the details
specifically with regard to the opt-out process.
Attachment J in your agenda packet is the item that's up on the
Board that provides some clarification just with regard to the items
that we were discussing during the prior meeting.
The first is the advisory committee makeup would be one
representative from Collier County EMS, North Collier Fire Control
and Rescue District, Greater Naples Fire Control, Immokalee Fire, as
well as the Collier County Sheriff's Office.
How we would come forward with the list of roadways each
year is that the advisory committee would submit a list of roadways
that they deemed impassable for emergency vehicles, and that the
disrepair is a danger to the health, safety, and welfare to citizens of
Collier County. They would provide that list to the MSTU project
manager.
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The MSTU project manager would compile that list. It would
be ranked by the committee, and we would develop a budget based
on the anticipated revenues. So we would -- if we had 10 roads, we
would develop a budget, and we would be able to go worst first as far
down the list as we could based on the revenues.
There was some discussion with regard to data management,
how would we document how we would -- how much money we
spent on each road. Those actual expenditures per roadway would
be documented in a manner just as we do with our own county roads,
utilizing our Cartegraph software. That's our asset management
software. So we would be able to determine, based on any link -- we
would save those work orders and be able to pull that data from our
system. And, most importantly, I think the biggest conversation that
we had was about the opt-out policy and how that would work.
So in order to opt out, an individual property owner would
submit an application to the advisory committee demonstrating that
the road is passable -- the road, not just their area in front of their
individual property boundary -- that there's a sustainable maintenance
plan in place for the next five fiscal years, and a signed statement
agreeing to maintain the road and remove any obstructions that would
impact emergency services.
That application would go to the advisory committee. Based on
the information provided, they would approve the opt-out application.
The property owner would then need to reapply at the end of five
years to reaffirm that they have a continued maintenance plan in
place. If at such time during that time frame that the road becomes
impassable to emergency vehicles and emergency maintenance is
required, those previously opted-out property owners would become
subject to the MSTU.
That concludes the items that I have to present, and then I would
defer to Commissioner McDaniel if he had any additional
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information.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- I'd like to -- if I may,
I'd like to confer with the County Attorney with regard to this opt-out
provision. I know we talked about it for quite some time, and it's
been a bone of contention.
My question is -- I don't live on Platt Road, let's just say I did,
and I own 300 feet of that road, and 30 feet of the 60 feet easement
that's there for the road. I choose to opt out, and my neighbors don't.
How do we manage my 30-by-300-foot swath of Platt Road with
regard to the maintenance?
MR. KLATZKOW: The road's either being maintained or it's
not. If the road's being maintained, you can opt out. That would be
everybody along the road can opt out. If the road as a whole -- it's
like a chain. I mean, a chain is only as good as its weakest link.
You can't have your part of the road maintained and everybody else
not maintained.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So for clarification purposes,
then, I live on Platt Road, and I choose to opt out of Platt Road. I
have to agree to a satisfactory maintenance agreement and keep the
road up so that it's passable for emergency vehicles?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: For an ambulance. I think
that's the stipulation we put in there was so was it was passable for an
ambulance, because we have four-wheel drive sheriffs and
four-wheel drive fire trucks and so on.
So the entire road of Platt Road would be opted out if a property
owner on Platt Road chose to seek the application and opt out?
MR. KLATZKOW: If the road's properly maintained, you can
opt out of the -- you can opt out of the MSTU.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A property owner --
MR. KLATZKOW: All of them.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- on a road can opt out the
whole road?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. If they've been maintaining the
road, there's no need for them to be in the MSTU.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, please, I'm just -- I'm
trying to get this clear in my brain, because it's not what I -- this
language to me is confusing.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, from a history of this, we started off
where you would have a road that was impassable, and what we
would do is we would go out there, declare the emergency, fix the
road, and slap on an MSTU to repay the County.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: Your concept here was to expand that, so
rather than do this on a case-by-case basis, you'd have an existing
fund so that you can go there and just fix the road.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. I'm -- yes.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, there are two new commissioners on
the dais who may not have been aware of this history.
So your concept was to expand this so that you would have a
pool of money so that when a road was declared impassable, staff
could just go out there and fix the road and be done with it. We
wouldn't have to go through the process of setting up an MSTU for
that particular road.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: So the premise is to fix impassable roads.
If you're maintaining your road, your private road, all right, there is
no need for you to be in this MSTU.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right, right.
And so I'm coming back to my original question. Because the
way I read this, the way I read this opt-out language, it was different
than what you and I had talked about when we were in my office.
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I have friends that live over on Rookery Lane down by the
sanctuary, and one of them is a family member of a large road
construction company in the community, and they have millings on
the road. So they aren't going to be -- they can opt out of this MSTU
and shouldn't have to because the road is quite passable.
I'm trying to wrap my arms around the opt-out process for a
property owner on a road. Can one person make a decision for all of
their neighbors?
MR. KLATZKOW: One person can opt out, all right, but if the
others don't opt out, they're in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Say the way that I understand it,
the road -- the whole road has to be passable --
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- or no one can opt out?
MR. KLATZKOW: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if the road -- if you've got five
property owners and the one property owner in the back has his road
all jacked up, nobody can opt out. So the pressure would be on -- in
the neighborhood. It wouldn't be on us.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. I don't want
the pressure to be on us. And, again, for history purposes, I mean,
I'm the president of a little homeowners association in the Sanctuary
from the year 2000 when Commissioner Coletta was sitting in this
seat, and back in those days, we used to try to establish an MSTU per
road, and that never came to fruition. And then we moved into
this -- the system that's been going on for the past 23 years where an
emergency's declared.
And so my thoughts were if everybody that were residing or
accessing the property via a private road paid a little bit into the
system, into the kitty, we would then, ultimately, bring all of the
roads up to be traversable by an ambulance, and we wouldn't have
June 27, 2023
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these emergency circumstances.
So the question on this opt-out -- I like the idea of an opt-out
because there are some roads that are private roads that aren't
requisite that don't need to be party to this. But I'm just
looking -- I'm just trying to get the semantics of who can opt out and
who can't.
Oil Grade Road goes from Oil Well Road clear up to Immokalee
Road. Collier Enterprises owns both sides of that road. They
can -- they can take care of their own road. There's nobody else
that's on that road. They can opt out -- they can opt out of the
MSTU. That's just one that strikes -- Rookery -- Rookery Lane is
some of my neighbors. Last week at the CINA meeting, at the
Corkscrew Island Neighborhood Association meeting, some of my
neighbors on Rookery Lane expressed that.
MS. SCOTT: So my understanding -- and Jeff's going
to -- Jeff's going to correct me if I'm wrong -- if there are five -- I'll
go six property owners on a roadway, if the roadway is not passable,
no one can opt out. If the roadway is passable, each individual
property owner would need to opt out.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: It's an affirmative action to opt out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm fine with that as a trial
basis. I would like to cap the first year at a half a mill with an
accounting coming back and not -- set it at a maximum of one, and as
with many of these MSTUs, we can adjust accordingly based upon
the actual determined expenditures. So that's one of the things that I
would -- I would also like to adjust here. Set it to be a maximum of
one, but the first millage rate levied would be a half a mill.
MS. SCOTT: And, sir, I think that you would actually be
setting that millage rate next year.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand --
MS. SCOTT: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- but I want the language to
stipulate that the first levy would be a half a mill.
MR. KLATZKOW: That -- your ordinance provides a cap of
one mill. During your budgetary process, you will set the mill for all
of your MSTUs.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I under -- yes, sir. Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have a couple of questions.
And I understand where you're trying to get to with this,
Commissioner McDaniel.
I was initially opposed to this, and I think I still am, but I want
to explain why and then I want to ask a few questions here.
We have 105 miles of unpaved roads, according to the executive
summary, and the taxable value estimated 372,700,000. One mill
was going to raise 372,900. So I think we're talking about raising
$186,450.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus or minus.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Plus or minus.
Now, I don't know how much staff time would be involved in
developing this. That would be one cost that would -- you'd bear
that cost in developing it. Then every year we would collect
$186,000, but we have to have some way to monitor who opts in,
who opts out, what roads are going to be repaired. And I'm
wondering if you have any idea as to how much it would cost just to
maintain and operate this type of a system. Because we have a lot of
MSTUs, and they're time intensive, but this is one that seems to me
that would require additional staff, perhaps. That's a question.
MS. SCOTT: It may. What I'm going to tell you is for right
June 27, 2023
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now, our intention is to start this program with our initial Multiple
Services Taxing Benefit Unit staff that we have. We have two
project managers.
You note that in these requirements that I put forth, these
determinations are made by the advisory committee, so it is not our
staff member, our team member, who is going out. So they would
collect the information and present it to the advisory committee,
trying to reduce that burden on the county team member as much as
possible.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. The executive
summary says that -- down at the bottom just before the growth
management impact, it says, if the unpaved road program is
approved, the level of effort necessary to implement the program will
be evaluated, and staff will report back to the Board if additional staff
or other resources will be required. How long will it take you to do
that?
MS. SCOTT: We need to see what the initial opt-out -- we
don't know. If no one opts out, it's not really a huge over -- you
know, there's not a whole paperwork burden and all of that. So it's
probably going to take us a good six months to be able to evaluate
what's coming in, et cetera.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And then I think this
probably would be a question for the manager and perhaps the
County Attorney. Is there an alternative way to do this? I know
that there's been some discussion about spending public money on a
private road. But if we have an unpaved road that's impassable,
somebody calls and complains or the Sheriff's Department advises
you that a road is impassable, I think in the past we've simply gone
out and fixed those problems.
MR. KLATZKOW: The current policy is that we will go out,
fix the road, and then charge back the cost to the community through
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an imposed MSTU.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Has that process worked
well or --
MR. KLATZKOW: I'd have to defer to the County Manager
or --
MS. PATTERSON: I have not heard of problems with that
other than we wouldn't know necessarily of every road that's
impassable. But I'll look at Trinity to see what problems have arisen
from your side.
MS. SCOTT: We have -- since I've been in this position, we
have set up, I believe, one. It's a process that works. We're reactive
in it. But, yes, it is a process that does work. We do have a method
of being able to do it right now.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Then I guess just
from your -- I hate to put you on the spot, but I'm going to put you on
the spot then. Maybe this is a question for the Manager. Is this -- is
this, in your mind, the best way to go about this? If it is, I'll support
it. If it's not, then I won't. Because I just don't want to create undue
burdens on staff, we're not talking about a whole lot of money here
on an annual basis. And so is the -- is the burden going to be worth
the -- is the pain worth the gain here in terms of what you're going to
get, or I guess to say, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is that the way
it works?
COMMISSIONER HALL: You said it before Commissioner
LoCastro.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Dang. I wanted to end with that.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I think to Trinity's point
earlier is that we don't know. It could be a very simple process if we
don't get a lot of opt-outs, but I think the opt-outs have always been
the question, is the layer of complexity that the opt-outs start to add,
and then where do we go from there? We're still at that point left
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with -- we still have our existing process.
But this is an attempt to be more proactive, potentially, but the
question becomes the tolerance of the community on those streets
that are the ones that are affected and whether or not they will try to
opt out or will want to.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And then just one
last question for the County Attorney in terms of just kind of figuring
out the boundaries of this. Typically you have an MSTU that has
some defined boundary, I think.
MR. KLATZKOW: Unincorporated Collier County.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. So any unpaved
road in the county, you don't have to go through any descriptions of
those roads or anything? It's just --
MR. KLATZKOW: I think staff has -- staff knows what the
unpaved roads are.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel had a
follow-up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Commissioner
Saunders, just to -- can I -- just to answer maybe a couple of
questions?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There have been three
imposed MSTUs since I became the commissioner for 5. All three
were -- one was a duplicate on -- Blue Ski, I think's the name of the
road that goes up to the Nancy Payton Bird Sanctuary, a
County-owned piece of property. It fell off into the crick. It fell off
into the canal due to a lack of maintenance even from us, the County,
that utilize the road to access a county road -- or a county property.
And then --
MS. SCOTT: Blue Sage and 42nd, I believe, were the two.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Blue Sage. And then Platt
Road, ultimately, as well. I lost a friend on Platt who -- Rita
Greenberg, back when the Corkscrew Fire Department was still in
existence, couldn't get to him.
Actually, Rita -- the road washed out so bad that it was an
$11,000 one-time expense. The rationale with this is to take a
proactive stance to assist our residents that need emergency services
with this -- with this process and do it in a far more cost-effective
manner.
These -- the Platt Road, it was known that was a washout for
years, literally years, and could have easily been fixed for several
thousand dollars, not $11,000. Blue Sage could have been fixed the
first time for several thousand dollars, not $11,000 twice. 43rd
was -- 41st down off of Everglades, that was another one.
And so the rationale here is to take a proactive stance, get -- the
other side of this equation is -- and we're not hearing from a lot of the
folks that live on private roads because they're tenants. There's a
landlord that owns -- that owns those properties. Especially when
you move out further into the east into the Immokalee area, there's
some roads that I have trouble getting around on even in my
four-wheel drive.
The other question you had was administratively. We do have
staff now that is aware of these private roads. Each time we created
an emergency MSTU, we charged an admin fee. We will be
charging an admin fee here as well, but it will be one for the whole
county, not one for each -- and it costs about the same whether you're
taking care of a mile-long road or 100 miles of roads from an
administrative standpoint, so that was my other rationale for taking
this step.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
June 27, 2023
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Yeah, I know we revisited this. This is probably, what, the
second or third time since I've been on the committee -- since I've
been on the committee, I think it's about the third time we've
discussed this.
And we are definitely getting more details, especially on the
opt-out and the opt-in, and we're seeing a lot more information.
And I know we keep talking about reactive and proactive, and I
don't -- I haven't seen a real description of how we're going to be
proactive identifying the roads before it becomes a problem or being
brought to our attention. The way it is in the past is typically an
ambulance or a fire truck or your sheriff has tried to get down one of
these roads, and then we notice it, and then we address it, which was
the old way to address it, and if it's that bad, we fix it, and then we
tax them appropriately to reimburse ourselves in the County.
But I see -- we're talking about reactive. I think we're reactive
[sic] on the part that we're collecting the money up front. And what
I'm seeing here, I don't see a whole lot of description of how we're
going to be reactive [sic] in identifying before it becomes a problem.
Because once the deputies -- or ambulance is going down the road,
it's the same exact scenario it was before -- that we had before was,
basically, they're identifying it, and we address it.
The difference is now we'll just have money available before
that, and that's not what we really are trying to achieve here, right? I
mean, we want -- we want to have ahead of it -- be ahead of the
game.
So what is the difference in what I read before and now what
we're reading now of what we're going to do proactive to identify
these roads before it's too late?
MS. SCOTT: What you're going to have is you're going to
have twofold. So the current process is we are notified, and then we
have to come to the Board. So I would be --
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Notified by who?
MS. SCOTT: We are notified, I'm sorry, by the -- either the
Sheriff or EMS or fire.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So it's the same exact process?
MS. SCOTT: Yes. So that's how they come forward to us, but
then we have to come in front of the Board. So that is a delay in
being able to get out there and address the situation. So we would
have this kitty of funds, if you will, to be able to address those in a
more immediate stance.
Currently -- our current program, because they don't come in
that often, we utilize our own internal team. So road maintenance
will typically go out and address the situation. So I'm pulling
resources from another -- from another, you know, critical action that
they need.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MS. SCOTT: So what we would do with this would be actually
put a bid out, have a contractor on call to be able to contact a
contractor to get them out to do it so I'm not reallocating my existing
resources.
Having -- when they're just kind of willy-nilly coming in, it's
difficult to get a contractor on board to say, yes, I'm, you know, on
board with the program, and I'm going to be available to you to be
able to be at the drop of a hat. So this will allow us to put this out to
bid as well.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So, like I said, so -- you
know, ultimately, we're still only identifying the problem when it's
brought to our attention?
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The only difference now is we're
proactively collecting the money ahead of time other than addressing
it either with our own resources or having a caveat to fall back on
June 27, 2023
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with somebody we already approved as a contractor that can do the
work for us?
MS. SCOTT: (Nods head.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I guess on the lines of
Commissioner Saunders -- and how much more bureaucratic red tape
and people involved now to manage this portion of it when it comes
down to having a third party doing the work for us? It's going to
have some sort of pull on our manpower.
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely. We just don't know to that extent
because we haven't implemented the program yet.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on that note, there's been
some discussion about the County moving forward and already
bringing on new employees and new assets to take care of the
stormwater circumstances that we have, drainage, so on and so forth.
Would those assets be able to be appropriated along these lines, or do
we have to go out for a bid individually on the roads? Could -- I
mean, if we got notice that -- and it passed through the -- there is a
review committee of the EMS, the fire, the Sheriff, to be -- and all
three fire departments, I think, are included in that. Would we be
able to utilize the assets that we're already planning as a group to
be -- obviously, when they have spare time.
MS. SCOTT: Well, what I would tell you, Commissioner, is
they're not going to have spare time because, you know, I'm just
beating them all the time telling them to work, work, work.
My preference would be not to pull those additional resources
off the very important job that they need to do, which is taking care
of the swale maintenance. That program that I presented to you, I
was still barely within the industry standards of what we anticipate it
being able to get done.
June 27, 2023
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What we would do with this is put a bid out. We would have a
contractor that would be -- we would be able to call to be able to go
out and do that so that I was not taking important resources off of
County-maintained roads --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- Ms. Scott, when somebody
wants to -- they think their road's serviceable and they want to opt
out, they have to prove it to somebody on the county staff?
Somebody --
MS. SCOTT: The advisory committee.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And then has -- in the past,
has there ever been a discrepancy where our version of the road being
serviceable and the person who wants to try to opt out, their version
is, you know, in conflict?
MS. SCOTT: We've never had -- sir, we've never had this
program before, so --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, okay.
MS. SCOTT: -- we've never had the opportunity to opt out.
How it has been in the past is we get a call from the fire department
or EMS that says --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Couldn't make it.
MS. SCOTT: -- we can't get down this road. And what I want
to say is, I do want to preface this because I had this conversation
with Commissioner Kowal, we're not leaving people at the end of the
road.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. SCOTT: Our first responders are MacGyver, if you will.
They will get there. They will get someone. If we can't get an
ambulance to them, they will get them to the ambulance. So I don't
want anyone to think that we're not -- we're just saying, oh, sorry, we
can't get there. It's not that at all. Our first responders are amazing
June 27, 2023
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and do amazing work to try to get to people and get them out to an
emergency vehicle to be able to get them on their way.
But -- so we haven't had this opt-out provision in the past. It's
been the road's impassable; we need you to get out there and do it, so
we establish the emergency MSTU.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was just trying to think out loud
of where there could be a crack in the armor where, you know, our
version of a passable road and the person who wants to opt out, their
version is different, and, you know, we're in -- we're not in agreement
because, you know, some people want to just opt out quickly and go,
the road's fine. I'm not paying anything, boom. And then we're
like, well, no, it's not. And so what's the standard? But like you
say, we'll have to wait and see how that --
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely. And the advisory committee made
up of emergency responders.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Responders, yeah.
MS. SCOTT: Those are the ones who can tell you can I get my
apparatus down that road or not.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right, right.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I haven't
belabored the point with a lot of stories, but there's a lot of stories. I
mean, there's -- you know, as Trinity has so adeptly said, our first
responders are better than MacGyver. They get to the people that, in
fact, need and have to have the assistance.
The other side of the equation is there's more that traverse these
roads than just emergency vehicles. We have -- there are
other -- there are other facilities, trash removal, so on and so forth,
that will receive less wear and tear all the way across the board.
So staying within the bounds of the law and taking public assets
onto private property, we're not -- we're not taking -- we're not
June 27, 2023
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condemning or eminent domaining any property. We aren't bringing
these roads up to a level of service that would requisite that they
would be ultimately donated to the County because of all of the
Florida Department of Transportation's requisites. This is strictly a
health, safety, and welfare maneuver to better assist our residents in
these areas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wonder if we're going to
have a resident or two that says, yeah, I know these guys are all
MacGyver, so my road's fine. They'll make it. But it's not really up
to our standard. But, you know, their takeaway is, yeah, but it's
good enough. These guys won't leave me on the road; that's why I'm
opting out, and then, you know, we have some -- and I guess it
remains to be seen if we're going to have any kind of that sort of
pushback.
MR. KLATZKOW: But they can't opt out without the
committee allowing them to opt -- they cannot opt out without the
committee allowing them to opt out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Allowing them to, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Number one. Number two,
if they opt out and it becomes impassable, they don't get to opt out
twice.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I gotcha.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: My thoughts are a couple. You
don't think that we're creating a bureaucracy by doing -- I mean, I say
that -- I say that, that's my concern, but at the same time, the
frequency of the repairs, you said once. Commissioner McDaniel
said three. So what is the frequency of the repairs that we have to
do?
MS. SCOTT: So as I stated, since I've been in this position,
which is about a little over two years, we've had one roadway come
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forward. Commissioner McDaniel's had three roadways come
forward in his tenure. So it is not something that --
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's not something that's ongoing.
MS. SCOTT: -- has been frequent, but that is just my
experience with it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, you know, I guess the best
thing that could happen is that we could have the majority of the
people opt out because that means their roads are passable.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Basically, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And then again, if you opt out, I
mean -- or if you don't opt out, then you're subject to half a mill or
whatever. And if you do opt out and we have to come back and do
your roads, then it should be twice that much. There should be an
incentive to keep your road passable is my thoughts, you know.
And I like -- I like the fact that the whole road has to be passable
for anyone to be able to get away from it, and if they don't want to be
taxed -- there's two things: They should want to keep their road
passable for their own health. People are willing to risk that. That's
why it's obvious that the roads are in that condition. But what they
won't be able to do for their health, they will be willing to do for their
pocketbook.
And $186,000, I was thinking, as much as -- as fast as we spend
money around here, that's not -- that doesn't seem like very much.
But when you say we could do one for 2,000 or one for 4,000, that
186- would go a long way. So what do we do if we get a -- if we do
this and we get a surplus of funds and we go one year, two years,
three years, and then all of a sudden we have this big money thing,
what do we do for the homeowner?
Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Am I allowed to answer it?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Commissioner McDaniel,
June 27, 2023
Page 151
go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Number one, those were my
estimates of the cost if the issues had been addressed when they were
needed to be addressed and they weren't exorbitant expenses of 11-,
12-, 22,000 twice on Sage and so on and so forth. Those would
have -- up front, number one.
Number two, there are a lot of people that are not here today that
were here before when this item came forward before that live on
private roads but don't own the property, and so there are landlords
that own on the property.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's another dynamic.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's entirely another
dynamic that's added into it.
Number three, one of the reasons -- I've asked to set the first
year at a half a mill so we have a known amount, we have a
budgeting process that we'll be able to go through, see what we're
doing.
As we have done in the past, before you came on board, we have
had other MSTUs that became full. I was going to say glutinous, but
full. And so rather than eliminating the existence of the MSTU, we
lowered their tax rate to zero. We just moved it. We --
COMMISSIONER HALL: It still stays there but just zeros it
out?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We adjusted the tax rate in an
appropriate manner based upon what the actual needs for the
expenditures to support whatever the reason that MSTU was, in fact,
in place, and that's my plan with this as well.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So constant monitoring,
management. Again, it's going to be the worst-first process. The
first few years are going to be heavier in expense because of
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the -- because of -- the initial repairs are more expensive. And then
the ongoing maintenance, in theory, should be less.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I guess I'm going to throw another thing in the fire here just so
we can have a conversation about it.
The opt-out, which I like the idea that the whole length of the
roadway beyond all the properties have to be maintained to a certain
standard for the whole road to opt out, but at the same time, I live on
a road with six other neighbors. Let's just say we gauge it upon the
property value of what you're going to pay. That's really the only
way we can do it.
So I'm talking about fairity here, like what's fair. And my
section of the road in the frontage of my house is maintained to the
certain standard, but the guy at the end of the road, two houses down,
doesn't take care of his house. His house is worth half of what
mine's worth, and he doesn't take care of his portion of road, but I'm
stuck paying more money into this fund than he is to maintain the
piece of road that doesn't allow me to opt out. I don't know if that's
fair. I'm just putting it out there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, again, you know, what I
perceive as fair and what you perceive as fair sometimes are two
different things.
The rationale here is, is for everybody that accesses their
property to pay a little bit into this account to be able to take care of
all of the roads in an equal basis. Again, there are -- it's difficult to
ascertain, ultimately, what's fair and what's not. And my particular
road on Redhawk Lane, it's accessed by two other private roads that
run up and down Redhawk Lane for their primary access. You can't
hardly get down their lane to get to where their actual house is.
June 27, 2023
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But they -- I own my own motor grader. I used to own my own
rock company. My road's in pretty decent condition, but these other
roads are virtually impassable, especially in the summertime. This is
when this circumstance -- right now we're just coming into the rainy
season, so we're not having a lot of issues.
This was my answer to a circumstance that's been going on in
this community for a long, long time, and I -- as you both know, as
you all know, I'm not a huge advocate of increased taxation. I'm
certainly not an advocate of increase in bureaucracy, but this is
a -- this is a health-safety -- and that's primarily why I brought it
forward is this is a health-safety issue. Again, I lost a friend on Lilac
because Rita couldn't get to him, so -- which is accessed off of Platt
Road that -- that became impassable.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I think that's -- the other
issue I brought up earlier is how do we be proactive to identify these
things before we do lose a loved one and then use the money
properly?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I don't -- that
mechanism -- if we could figure that mechanism out, I would feel
better about it, but I don't see it yet, because it sounds like the same
way we identify them are after it's already a problem. The only
difference is we have money to use, you know, then -- you know.
So that's what I'm saying.
I mean, if we want to look at it as a public safety thing, we have
to really look at the nuts and bolts. How does it make it safer? And
if there's a way that committee can form some sort of task force that
physically goes out and inspects these roads, you know, they set time
aside and so many roads, and they do an evaluation of these roads
and bring that back, and then the people have the opportunity to
argue if their road is -- meets a certain standard or not, but it will be
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identified before we have to run an ambulance down there, before we
have to run a sheriff's car down here.
Because I think the only mechanism in place now we have to
identify them is the same exact one we've had in the past, and by then
it's too late, especially for, you know, the commissioner's friend.
You know, that's not the time to recognize it.
So if that portion was clearer to me, it would make it easier for
me to swallow the pill, because I do believe in public safety, believe
me. Any -- believe me, I definitely believe in it. I served 28 years
in it. I know how important it is.
So -- but to be proactive, you have to actually be proactive. We
can't just use it as a cliché or a word to say, well, we're going to be
proactive, and everything we put in place is just reactive. So if we
can look at this -- I don't want to postpone it. I think we've
postponed it long enough.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a comment on that.
Burt's first.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Go ahead, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me let -- Commissioner
Saunders has been waiting. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What's the timeline on this?
So if we approve this today, does this go into our budget -- our
current budget we're working on?
MS. SCOTT: No, sir. It would be next year.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So if we -- just a
hypothetical question. If we approve this in January of 2024, would
it still go into the 2024 budget, or would it have -- I'm trying to see if
we have some time to evaluate a couple of these questions.
MS. SCOTT: I believe it -- I believe it has to be done before
the end of the year to be able to get to the Property Appraiser. Is
Mr. Finn still in the room? He's not. Oh, yeah, he is.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think that's right. I think
as long as it's done this calendar year, I think we're in good shape.
And Mr. Finn is nodding in the affirmative. County Attorney
hasn't nodded one way or the other.
MR. KLATZKOW: I just forget, to be honest with you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: He nodded off.
So if we do it this year, we're good for the -- in other words, if
we don't do this today but we get staff to do some evaluation and we
come back in a couple weeks or we come back at another meeting in
August, we can still do this this year?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Still get it in on time.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. The reason I'm
asking that is I think there have been a lot of legitimate questions. I
support what you're trying to do, Commissioner McDaniel, in terms
of fixing these roads. I just don't want to create a bureaucratic
nightmare for a couple of staff people, because I would be supportive
of putting $186,000 in our budget to cover those expenses on an
annual basis if that's what it is. That's simple. It's easy to maintain.
I know Trinity Scott has indicated that she doesn't want to drag
people off of important projects, but if there's an emergency and we
have a fund available, and -- I'm sure we could get the work done. I
just don't want to create a bureaucratic nightmare for a couple staff
people or spend a lot of money to collect a little bit of money.
And maybe we need some more evaluation. That's all I would
say. Have staff really dig into this and tell us what you
really -- what this is going to cost, what it's going to really entail.
Maybe you can't do that, but just a thought.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Do you want to answer his question
before I go?
June 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll call on McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who replaced Harry Sells?
MS. SCOTT: We have two different project managers there.
But we have a project manager that's identified for this if it goes into
place.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and Harry did all that
with our private roads. And that question you were asking, both of
you were asking with regard to -- we already have identified -- our
staff's already -- at least they did at one time -- identified the private
roads and driven on them and inspected them and that sort of thing.
So, I mean, that aspect of it was ongoing way back in the day.
MS. SCOTT: Well, what I would -- if I could respond to that,
that was done many years ago when this originally came up, I think,
maybe back in 2000 [sic]. So it's been three years since the team has
been out on the roads.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. We could use that as
a base.
COMMISSIONER HALL: There's a lot of potholes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They haven't gotten any
better. Those roads that were in poor condition haven't gotten any
better, I can promise you that. So we can use -- necessarily, we can
use that as a base.
I mean, this -- this is -- this process has been ongoing for quite
some time and a known circumstance.
And, Commissioner Saunders, I thank you for saying what you
said, but the thought process was -- that I had here was we -- if this
ordinance, in fact, passes and goes forward, we have a known
revenue source we may be able to backfill in advance even this year
to be able to take some -- take care of some of the worst roads
knowing that there's a revenue source coming back to replace it. Of
course, that will be up to Mr. Finn to figure out whether he's got an
June 27, 2023
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extra penny or two laying around.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if we pass this today, we have
till the end of the year to kind of -- to line up the details of it or to
hear the details of it of how it's going to actually play out, or if we --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. Well, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I mean, there's been several
questions. There have been some good points.
MR. KLATZKOW: The timing is only as to when the tax
collector actually could bring the money in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. So we need to have --
MR. KLATZKOW: What Commissioner McDaniel is saying is
if we pass this ordinance now, you can loan this MSTU the money
now, and they get paid when the monies start coming back in.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess my question is more about
the details.
MR. KLATZKOW: Staff's not going to know the details until
they actually start working on this.
MS. SCOTT: Correct. So if you pass it today and we come
back with establishing the advisory committee, et cetera, we can get
the advisory committee meeting. This will not go on the tax roll
until next October -- or November, sorry. So it will not be in this
year's tax roll. It would be next year. So we would not technically
start collecting money until next year. That does not negate the fact
that the advisory committee couldn't start working and identifying the
roadways. We would certainly want to get started procuring a
contract so that when the funding is available, we have our contractor
on board ready to go.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess I have a feeling that we
have the cart before the horse. So what if we don't like the horse?
Can we change -- can we just change it --
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- if we don't like the details?
Okay. And then the other question is, how does the existing
payback work? Does it work on property values, or does it work on
shared expense?
MR. KLATZKOW: Property values.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So the unfairness is still in place
right now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perception.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The perception of the unfairness.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Perception of unfairness.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Clerk of Courts.
MS. KINZEL: Well, I was hoping we'd get to answer some of
my questions. But let me bring forward some of the complications I
saw.
First, yes, it creates bureaucracy. And then when I hear the
County Attorney say things like, well, we'll lend it all the money, and
then we'll get paid back, that not only takes county staff, but that
takes accounting staff for $186,000, which is just based on an
estimated half a mill collection. But I have not heard to date what
would be the total cost of repairing all of these 140-some roads.
Because here's my concern. You collect base on a millage,
which is disparate a little bit based on property value even though
you're all on the same road. Right now you have an assessment that
is equitable to those people that did not maintain their road. That's a
little bit different than a millage that is based on your property value,
not in relationship to the repair on the road.
Also, what happens is first year you get five people that may be
the worst. Everybody's contributing. They eat that up amount. Or
the people that opt out, you say they can rejoin in five years. Well, I
would try to opt out forever, because then I wouldn't at least have to
June 27, 2023
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pay it for five years, and maybe that cycle will come around and I'll
be the worst road, and I'll get it paid with other people's collection.
The timing is what I'm having a struggle with. And I was
hoping we would get there, but I don't think you can until you know
the total cost of what it would be overall to fix all of these roads to
current standards and maintain it. So I really tried not to interject,
but I don't think you're there --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But you did.
MS. KINZEL: I'm sorry, but I don't think you're there yet, and
it is creating a bureaucracy that we have to account for and manage,
and these questions are still outstanding.
So postponing it a month or so, let's get a little bit better -- I
don't know how much it would take to get an idea on these roads, but
you're trying to tax for something that you don't even know what the
total cost is. So I had to say that. Thank you. Sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Chairman McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I certainly appreciate
the Clerk's opinion with regard to how this is going.
There's already an assessment. We already pay an equal
payment based upon our property values. But the people that access
their property on private roads receive no benefit from that.
Those -- the property taxes that we pay on an equitable basis are for
the public roads and the access and maintenance on our public roads,
not on these private roads. So this was an avenue for the folks that
access and -- only access their properties via a private road to pay
into a fund to bring all of those up to standard.
The cost -- the cost is going to vary based upon the condition of
the private roads, and there will be a period of time for people that
live on Redhawk Lane that won't receive any maintenance or upkeep
on that road because I own my own motor grader.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Has any analysis been done on the
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roads as far as what the estimated costs would be to bring the ones
that aren't up to standard up to standard as the county -- as the Clerk
of Courts mentioned?
MS. SCOTT: No. And as Commissioner McDaniel stated, it's
going to vary based on usage. It's going to vary based on rainfall
that we get. You know, a road this year that was passable, next year
may not, depending on usage, and if we get, you know, an abundance
of rain, you might have washout.
So it's not something -- these are not paved roadways. These
are lime rock roads. These are dirt roads. These are sand roads in
some instances. It is -- it's a varying thing. And as I stated, when
this came up a few years back, we had a team member who went and
spent a lot of time to go out and assess the roads and look at the roads
and see what was passable and what wasn't. That has not occurred
for this exercise.
We do have his information that we had before. In my
conversations with fire and EMS, I asked, do you assess the roads?
Do you go out and drive them on a regular basis? They do not.
They do it based on complaints that come in or if they go to a call.
So if they get a complaint from a homeowner that says, I don't
think that you can get your apparatus down this road, they will go
check it out. If they can't, then they notify county -- they'll usually
come to me, and then we go forth with the establishing of the
emergency MSTU.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, do you
want to make a motion, or do you want to delay this?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion for
approval of the proposed ordinance with the cap to be at one mill and
that levy at half a mill the first year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion. Do I have a
second with those changes?
June 27, 2023
Page 161
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll second it. So I've got a motion
and a second.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, just real quickly on
the motion, I support what you're trying to do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm just -- I'm not
comfortable creating this countywide MSTU because I just don't
understand how much work is going to be required to get this done.
This may very well pass, and, if it does, that's great. But if it doesn't
pass, then I don't think that's the end of the issue because I would like
to, at some point if this doesn't pass, talk about how we can fund this
and how we might do it as an alternative. But I'm just concerned
about the bureaucracy that's going to come with this. I just don't
understand it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, you know,
Commissioner Saunders, you and I have been around here a long,
long time. And, again, I -- we, the community, our road
transportation department, we don't hear anything about our private
roads in the wintertime when they're passable. It's only in the
summertime when the rains come and they become impassable.
This circumstance has been going on since time immemorial,
and this is -- the efforts that have been done in the past have been
excessively expensive because of the time associated with the
reparations that were requisite. Again, I cited Blue Sage over there
on -- off the end of Garland that is a private road accessing county
land, and it fell off into the -- I call it a crick. It fell off into the canal
twice.
And I actually remember -- I offered to -- I offered to go grade
June 27, 2023
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that road if I could get somebody -- the County to park a motor
grader down there just to go fix that road so that it stayed passable.
And there are people that live down there, residents that live down
there as well.
So -- and, again, this -- this is an answer to an ongoing
circumstance that hasn't been -- in my personal opinion, hasn't been
rectified, hasn't been taken care of, and we have -- a lot more good
can come from it other than the little bit of -- little bit of work that's
associated with it, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. The reason I seconded it is
after hearing you-all speak back and forth -- and, clearly, you know,
you can make the points either way. I really -- I really didn't look at
it as bureaucracy. I look at it as it's going to take effort and work,
but bureaucracy means something a little bit different. So unless
somebody can explain it to me, I don't know that that's the first word
I would reach for.
Is this going to take effort by the staff? Absolutely. And
there's a lot of things we vote on here that take a lot of effort. That's
why we vote on them.
So I think it's going to take -- it's going to take work and effort,
but I don't really look at it as government overreach or bureaucracy
or those sort of things. I'm not saying it's perfect. But, you know, if
anybody has anything to say -- and obviously the Clerk of Courts
does. We haven't taken a vote. You know, we're here to debate and
talk.
MS. KINZEL: Chairman? Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MS. KINZEL: -- thank you.
I think when we reference a bureaucracy, it is the dollar value of
what you're able to collect versus the expenditure of all the costs to
account for it, to monitor it, to account for it.
June 27, 2023
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And when you talk, is it even going to be half a mill for
182,000? Going back to Commissioner Saunders' point, what are
you creating the cost for all the departments to handle this versus
what would it cost to do it maybe another way? Going also back to
the millage versus the current route, if this has only happened three
times in the last seven years, that is creating a real bureaucracy for
monitoring, evaluation, billing, collecting, accounting for it across all
of us. And you're only talking about, what? What's the total
population?
And if I were on one of the dirt roads and my neighbors weren't
taking care of it but I couldn't opt out -- because I've been taking care
of my segment, and then I keep paying in and my road doesn't even
get fixed until four worse roads get fixed, I think you're going to have
some public outcry if that occurs.
I don't know how many people know that this is potentially
occurring, but they will when they have to opt in or out or get those
notifications, because you haven't noticed anyone that this has
happened to, have you, Trinity?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Madam Clerk.
MS. KINZEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Madam Clerk, that's
incorrect. That was a statement that we went through the last time
when some of my colleagues had concerns. And we sent letters to
all of the properties that were impacted by this.
MS. KINZEL: Okay. And so you didn't have any feedback on
that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, certainly we had
feedback.
MS. KINZEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Both positive and negative.
Some of the people didn't want it, some of the people did, which is
June 27, 2023
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why I worked with the County Attorney to establish an opt-out
provision that I think will impact --
MS. KINZEL: But in going back to the question of
bureaucracy versus just extra work, we all work extra on anything
that we need to do, and we can accomplish it, but that goes back to
was there an analysis done of who would really opt out or who would
opt in and versus the costs that -- what are the total costs that this
would take to do all 140-plus roads?
That number, based on who's opting in or out, that would even
be necessary, really, to set a millage rate, because you don't want to
over assess or over collect and then at the end have to refund it if, in
fact, those costs weren't necessary to fix the roads.
So I just see a lot of accounting that has to be done with this.
Yes, we'll do extra work. We do whatever's needed. But when we
talk about bureaucracy, it really is the complexity of determining that
without the actual detail of the numbers. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, did you
have a --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, I have a whole bunch to
say, but I'm not going to right now. I -- it's not that complex. This
isn't brain surgery. We have a health, safety, and welfare
circumstance that has been prevalent in this community for the
40-some-odd years that I've lived here.
And, again, if you-all don't want to do it, we don't have to do it.
I'm not going to bring it back ever again. I've been looking to get
this circumstance taken -- two times ago when this was brought
forward, I had folks from Immokalee, from the CRA, from the
community leaders in Immokalee come here, gave their time, and we
continued the item again because of all these misnomers of lack of
information and lack of accounting and so on and so forth.
So there's a dire -- is it a dire need? No, but is there -- has this
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need been here since time immemorial? Yes. And this -- this
is -- this the -- we can't spend public funds -- Commissioner
Saunders, we can't just go grab 187,000 from another kitty and put it
over here. We can't -- we're not allowed to do that. We're not
allowed to spend public funds on private property.
And this is a mechanism that our County Attorney -- this is a
mechanism that our County Attorney and I have worked on to stay
within the four corners of the law and service as a need -- a dire need
for our community. Relatively speaking, a small portion of the
option, I'll give you that, Madam Clerk. But there's still a hundred
and -- the agenda said 105 miles. I had 111, 110 miles of private
roads, sand roads in our community. So there you go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ms. Scott, let me just ask you a
final question. You know, what is -- what is your -- what is the
staff's recommendation, you know, from the folks that you're here
representing?
So we heard from the Clerk of Courts. I don't think we sort of
heard your recommendation. You know, you explained it very well
and answered all of our questions, but, you know, what does the staff
have to say?
MS. SCOTT: Well, we're here to carry out the will of the
Board, number one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know. Okay. So then I'll just
ask you flat out is this -- is this an overabundance of workload,
bureaucracy, the juice isn't worth the squeeze? Let's talk plain
English. I mean, so --
MS. SCOTT: I can't -- so, Commissioner, I can't tell you that
until I figure out what's going to happen with the opt-out portion of it.
If this is just the fire and EMS are coming to the MSTU and giving us
a list of roadways that need to be addressed and we're, essentially,
bidding them and managing the construction part of it --
June 27, 2023
Page 166
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, finally somebody's
spoken plain English. So I wouldn't second it based on -- because I
want to hear a better answer than that. So if that's the answer, then I
don't think we're ready to vote on this.
So I'm not saying kick the can and move it along. And, you
know, I would encourage Commissioner McDaniel that if this is
something he's passionate about, I don't care if you bring it back 10
times if it's something that we should talk about. So don't lose
airspeed because, you know -- you know, you're feeling beat down or
we're going round and round.
I agree with you. I think this is important. And I'm not saying
you are, so I probably should take that -- but I don't want you to feel
discouraged that, hey, you know, I came back one more time for the
college try. I can't get a consensus so, you know, I'll just let it go.
But, you know, truthfully -- and you were truthful, but I was
hoping to hear a better answer than that, and so then I sit here and
say, maybe similar to what some others have said, is the cart before
the horse? And then also, too, I don't feel any sense of -- to go back
to what a couple of the other commissioners said, if we don't need to
decide today and we still have some unanswered questions, then
maybe we're not kicking the can and we're not continuing to bring it
down. We just -- we still haven't answered all the questions before
we start, you know, taxing this small group of people, and maybe for
no reason or the wrong reason or the wrong way.
So I've got a bunch of people lit up again. Commissioner
McDaniel and then, Commissioner Hall, you're on deck.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just want to assure you I'm
not losing airspeed. I'm not quitting. The last thing I have done is
ever quit, just so you know.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just so you know. Number
two, the questions that are raised are being raised by folks that aren't
really dealing with this. I am the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- commissioner of District 5.
I would say 80 of these 110 miles reside in District 5.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: District 5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I hear from the residents of
District 5.
I owned a mining and excavating business. I know what the
costs are associated with the reparations of these roads. I know what
the cost is associated with running a motor grader and fixing these
roads and making them passable.
The Clerk of Courts was very nice to step up there and talk
about all of the accounting and everything, but this -- these
things -- do you want to hear plain English? This isn't brain surgery.
This is a need.
I know of one person that's passed because of the time that was
requisite to get to the Board and do the reparations and do the stuff
because of a known circumstance that was there, and that's one
person too many, let alone people who -- on the other side of
Immokalee that live on private roads, their kids have to walk through
water knee deep in order to get to the school bus.
I didn't bring all those people in here to barrage you. I
just -- this to me is a no-brainer. This to me is a circumstance
that's -- it's not complicated. It's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this: Did anything
that Ms. Scott just said as to some of the unknowns that are still out
there concern you, or do you think they're big -- a big part of the
equation before, you know, we move out on this? Are we doing it
prematurely? I'm just asking hypothetically, because, you know, she
June 27, 2023
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stated something that wasn't as definitive as I had hoped, but that
doesn't mean it's not a smoking gun and we can't -- we can't move
forward and make progress. So what are your thoughts?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Personally -- and, again, I
think staff is not aware -- this opt-out provision, I think we got it as
clear as mud, to be honest with you. Is it going to be -- is it going to
create more work? Not really. I mean, in my -- in my view, if a
person -- I use Platt Road as an example. If a person on Platt Road
chooses to opt out, then Platt Road is opted out. And then if that
road becomes impassable, then they don't get to opt out anymore, and
they're included in it, period, the end. It's not -- again, it's not brain
surgery.
MS. SCOTT: And if I may, Chairman, so, see, I have a little bit
of a thought behind this as well. So with the opt-out policy, it would
be more of an administrative thing about bringing -- you know,
bringing this to the advisory board, having the advisory board act on
it and all of that.
I wouldn't do that necessarily with another full-time-equivalent
position. We have the opportunity, through a staffing service here at
the County, to bring on administrative assistants with us, which
would be charged back to the MSTU through their administrative
costs if we needed that, because that's going to ebb and flow. That's
not going to be -- you know, opt-outs, my guess, is probably not
going to come in, you know, hundreds of them at a time throughout
the year. They're going to come in -- my guess is right after
someone gets their tax bill, they're going to say, oh, I want to opt out
of this for next year. And so that would be when I would bring in,
you know, temporary administrative help to be able to help the
project manager.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If we needed it.
MS. SCOTT: If, absolutely. It wouldn't be that I'd bring them
June 27, 2023
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in. It would be, like I said, ebbs and flows. And that is something
that I can turn on and turn off depending on what the staffing needs
are for it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We are -- and, just -- you
know, the Clerk asked you. We sent letters to all of the affected
people. I mean, do you have a recollection as to the response that
came from that? The majority -- the majority that -- I mean, there
were a few people that are like, heck no, don't raise my taxes ever
again. I already pay taxes. Where aren't you fixing my road?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Private.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Exactly, and that's what I tell
them. And so --
MS. SCOTT: It was not overwhelming one way or another.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MS. SCOTT: Those went to Michelle Arnold, and before she
retired, she sent those to me. It was not overwhelming one way or
another. It was a 50/50 split, give or take. And we also had some
roads that actually came forward together and said, absolutely, we
would love to do this, and, as a road, we want to opt in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, maybe a compromise:
If -- because it seems like probably Commissioner McDaniel hit the
nail on the head is that this issue's very close to him because he lives
in it in his district, and the rest of you getting your arms around what
this really looks like and what this really means, maybe, in the -- we
have a little bit of time. Why don't we convene the committee of
folks that deal with this on a daily basis with Commissioner
McDaniel and with Trinity to get our arms around that top -- there's
going to be a top list of the roads that we know are going to need the
work, right, of the 105 or 10 miles of roads, there are going to be the
logical ones that rise to the top, and there would be an ability to do a
June 27, 2023
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cost analysis on those and break them up into a reasonable plan of
how they'd be addressed.
Now, that doesn't address the opt-out, but it would get this board
some understanding of what we're dealing with here, as far as the
magnitude and the roads, we could bring back to get you, then, the
perspective that I think that you're all looking for, because what we're
hearing from you is you're not -- you're not maybe having -- it's
harder to get your hands around what we're dealing with, how many
are there, what are we even talking about, and how many people are
on those roads.
So do you have a road with five people? Is it a road with 20
people? Because the complexity of the opt-out, of course, goes up
with how many people are opting out. But short of doing everything
or doing nothing, we could take that step of us sitting down together
one more time -- Commissioner, sorry -- and trying to get this in a
way that's more meaningful to everybody here on the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall had a
comment, and then we'll see what Commissioner McDaniel says to
that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, Commissioner McDaniel
said exactly what I was going to go say. It's 90 percent your district.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And so Commissioner Kowal and
I, we're not hearing private road, you know, discussions in our
districts. And so it's a public safety issue.
I don't want to kill this just because we don't have the answers to
everything, but I would like to have some of the details, and I would
like to see it come back, because I think it's very worthy of doing but
doing it right. So I want to encourage you, if we just -- you know, if
we -- I hate that term, "kick the can," because to me that says it's not
important. But I would like to have some of the details, and I
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do -- and I would be behind this, and I would support it if I had some
of those details issued.
We do have a process in place right now, so we're not losing any
ground, but we're not gaining any ground. But the ground that we
gain, I would like to gain it smart and do it right, and I would be
behind it if we had some of those details issued.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm going to try to simplify this,
and I don't know if I can even -- what I'm going to say even can be
done.
And I do -- Commissioner McDaniel, this is a large -- partly in
your district, and I know you personally feel -- how you feel about it
and the feelings that you have just due to personally what you've
witnessed and suffered, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody, and I
understand that.
But, you know, when we have anybody that works for the
County, their salary is paid by every taxpayer in this county. So
when that person's tasked to work on these roads or tasked to do
some sort of -- you know, even in the Clerk's Office, they're being
paid for the people -- you know, in my district, District 2, District 3,
District 4, District 1's salaries are being paid for that. So it is tax
dollars from everybody's dollars of being part of this whole process.
And I think -- I don't know if it's even possible. I know we've
already sent out letters to -- we know the number of people that live
on these roads. We know the properties. We know those numbers.
They're hard numbers. I mean, and it's a majority in your district.
And if it's something that we could as simply as send out a
proxy letter and let them vote up or down, let the people decide, and
get the results back, and if we can just clean -- the language right
now -- I just want to see something a little bit more proactive,
because I do believe in being proactive for safety purposes. And the
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way it's written right now, I can't support it because I don't see that.
But if the people in your district, and they want this and they're
willing to vote and say, yeah, this is what I want, I don't have a
problem. I just don't know if it's something we can do or can't do.
MR. KLATZKOW: You can do it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, because that would
probably simplify this a lot more than us beating our heads over it.
Because there are people in my district. They're going to say, you
know, I pay taxes, too, and you're using the resources that I support
through a salary in the county to go out and fix a private road. And,
you know, I have to have the right answer for them, too, when I'm
asked.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That isn't correct. There is
an asset portion for the Clerk to count the pennies.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So out of 100-some-thousand
we're going to collect, we're also going to place salaries that anybody
that's going to be --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's all administrative stuff
that's charged back to the MSTU.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. I'm just trying to be
clear.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm sorry. I don't mean to be
disrespectful. If there's a tone of voice of impatience, it's just
because I've been talking about this ad nauseam, and it's -- the MSTU
is a self-contained unit. The administrative fees will be paid for
administration of the MSTU. If there's a charge by the clerk or the
tax collector, or whatever, those are all paid for out of the MSTU.
So we're -- the circumstance here is certainly not to take away
from any other assets that we have availed to us here at the County.
I had a thought, when staff was talking to me about going and buying
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more dump trucks and loaders and taking care of the dire drainage
needs that we have going on in Eastern Collier County, that we be
able to appropriate some of those assets and take care of some of
these roads as well. But if we need to put it out for bid, we'll put it
out for bid, so -- the administration aspect of the MSTU will be paid
for out of the MSTU --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, like I said, if it's possible
and if it's something, and if -- as a body up here feel that that's an
avenue to take to send out a letter, it's an up or down vote -- because
these people live on a private road. They live on a private road for a
reason. Some of them want to be on a private road. So, you know,
I don't know where their stance on this is.
MR. KLATZKOW: This board in the past has done that for
MSTUs. You can either set up the MSTU involuntarily or
voluntarily. By voluntarily, it would be an up or down vote by the
people within the MSTU. We haven't done that in years and years
and years, but it has been done by this board.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I think that will give the
voice to Commissioner McDaniel's district who is mostly affected by
this, and they'll have the control over if we do something with it or
not.
I mean, you know -- but right now, where I sit at it, I'm making
a decision for my taxpayers, which, you know, they don't -- one way
or the other, I don't know how much they want to be involved in this.
But if it's his majority of the people that are involved in it and
they take an up or down vote and they want to go with it, then I'll -- it
will be easier for me to swallow. I mean, that's all I'm trying to say.
I'm just trying to simplify it a little bit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I like the County Manager's
suggestion. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what she's
suggesting, but Commissioner Saunders is next.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think Commissioner Kowal
has a great idea. We could find out fairly quickly. I've gotten
letters from people that -- the only letters I've gotten is from people
saying that they were opposed to it. But it's only been a few, three
or four.
Question for the County Attorney -- because we've been saying
a lot that we can't spend public money on private roads. We've been
spending public money on private roads, and then we've gone back
and gotten reimbursed. So I'm not sure where this idea is that we
can't spend money on a private road. If there's an emergency, if
there's a public health-safety issue, it seems to me we can go in and
pave a road with public money.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, I've been up and down this
road many times. If we could do it just with the General Fund, we
would have done it years ago, but there is court cases and AG
opinions that say you can't do it. What we're doing now is just
loaning the money, then getting it back. That's probably good. But
it's a constitutional prohibition of using public money for a private
purpose, and --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Even if there's a declaration
or determination that there's an emergency that needs to be corrected?
MR. KLATZKOW: That's been tried before, and it's failed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: Trust me, I would much prefer to
use -- look, we used to in the old days send a truck out with the
gravel and take care of it, and that would be the end of it but, you
know --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And I was just
confused because we have been spending the money in advance and
then going back and collecting it. But I understand what you're
saying.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we declared -- forgive
me for interrupting. But we actually declared an emergency in those
circumstances that got through that particular issue. By doing it
this -- and to give credence to the County Attorney, he's leaning
forward on this, because this has never been done in the State of
Florida. So it may get challenged. There may be questions. There
may be -- there may be things that we don't know yet that we'll learn
if, in fact, we do do it or don't, as the case may be.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what's your thought on the
County Manager's proposal to have some folks get with you and
maybe get some of the unanswered questions answered and come
back --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd be happy to do that. You
know, there again, Harry Sells and I spent an enormous amount of
time way before I became a county commissioner. I mean,
Commissioner Coletta gave me -- told me to take the knee and
nominated me to be the president of the Corkscrew Island
Neighborhood Association and -- on the premise that back in -- you
know, in the old days, in order to establish an MSTU, you have to
have a 50-percent-plus-one vote in order to implement that MSTU.
And you can't -- you cannot get these folks -- and I'm one of
them -- that lives on a private road to all come together.
So waving this magic wand takes care of a circumstance, allows
for an opt-out provision, has a third-party administrator of the
emergency services folks to determine the worst first, and takes care
of a necessary circumstance in our community.
So I'd be happy to meet with the County Manager, get Harry's
list, go through that process, bring it back to you, take some pictures,
bring some people in. If you want me to go through that, I'd be
happy to do it. I --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Would we need a vote on that, or if
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we are all in agreement, we --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We can just vote to continue
this for another month.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I've got a motion to continue it
based on --
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- also what you suggested, which
I think was very astute.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We just need some details.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I think that -- I think that
discussion will bring us the details.
So we have a motion. I'll second that. All in favor of
following the County Manager's suggestion, which Commissioner
McDaniel has agreed to? All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously with
continuation and a deeper dive.
We're way past the break, and you know, Terri's over here like,
you know, giving me daggers. And let's take a little bit longer.
Let's come back at 3:40, okay, just -- is that too long?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She used to go for a walk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 3:35, okay? We'll split the
difference.
June 27, 2023
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(A brief recess was had from 3:12 p.m. to 3:35 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Item #11B
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (“RFP”) #22-8023,
“OUTSOURCING OF COUNTY MARINAS,” TO BLUWATER
FLORIDA, LLC. (“BLUWATER”) IN WHICH EIGHT PERCENT
OF ALL GROSS SALES REVENUE (EXCLUDING FUEL), SIX
PERCENT OF GROSS SALES REVENUE FROM FUEL, AND
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF ALL WATERCRAFT LAUNCH
AND PARKING FEES ARE REMITTED TO THE COUNTY, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT - MOTION TO APPROVE WITH EXCLUSION OF
BRICK & MORTAR WATERCRAFT FROM CONTRACT BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
HALL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11B is a recommendation to award
Request for Proposal 22-8023, outsourcing of county marinas to
BluWater Florida, LLC, in which 8 percent of all gross sales revenue
excluding fuel, 6 percent of gross sales revenue from fuel, and
100 percent of all watercraft launch and parking fees are remitted to
the County and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement.
Ms. Olema Edwards, Parks and Recreation division director, is
here to present.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Ms. Edwards, we're all
ears.
MS. EDWARDS: Great. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
June 27, 2023
Page 178
If awarded, BluWater Florida will be responsible for the
operations and management of the following four marina locations:
Port of the Islands; Goodland Boat Park; Caxambas Park, once it's
fully reopened; and Cocohatchee River Park.
The detailed scope of work of this solicitation will allow the
vendor to have the ability to conduct daily operations of the marina,
manage the contract -- excuse me -- manage the commercial fishing
activities for a fee, and provide and operate -- provide and operate
permitted concessionaires.
The vendor shall also have the ability to lease recreational and
commercial boat docks, both wet and dry slips, using
Board-approved lease agreements and standard rental rates set forth
in the Parks and Recreation Fee Policy Resolution, which was
2022-263, and it may be amended.
The contractor is also authorized to conduct the following types
of businesses and services including, but not limited to, retail sales
and services, live bait sales, fuel sales, dry slip assignments, and
voter registrations, reservations for day slip rentals, boater evictions
for dry storage, posting weather and tide reports, marketing of
facilities, and safety and security of the facilities.
When we met with the vendor, these were the negotiated terms
that we came to agreement with. BluWater Florida will remit the
following to the County on a monthly basis: 8 percent of all gross
sales revenue, excluding fuel. For fuel we'll receive 6 percent of the
gross sales revenue, and 100 percent of the watercraft lunch and
parking fees.
Now, when this solicitation was put out, the agreement period
advertised in the RFP included an initial one-year term with four
annual renewals. During negotiations with the vendor, BluWater
requested a two-year initial term with three one-year renewals. This
was due to the heavy nature of investment such as staffing, fuel,
June 27, 2023
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inventory, and other initial startup costs.
Additional negotiated terms were that BluWater will have 60
days or less grace period on revenue collection from start date of the
fully executed contract for Port of the Islands Park and Goodland
Boat Park, and then collection on revenue at will -- excuse
me -- collection on revenue will commence 60 days or less after the
issuance of the certificate of occupancy for Cocohatchee River Park
and Caxambas Boat Park. As you know, these two parks are still
going through some Hurricane Ian repairs, so this is why we came up
with this negotiated term.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's go back a couple
slides. A lot of this is in my district. Okay, right there. Stop right
there.
Okay. So my first question is -- and I think all the
commissioners know here, but just for the record, this all stems from
contracts that we had for these marina park stores that were very
heavily unbalanced towards the vendor and not so much to the
County. And we're not looking to make anything a cash cow, but
just trying to find balance.
And also, we had -- we had some issues. You know, a little bit
of fresh blood and putting something out for rebid, you know. And
the previous contractor could have rebid but didn't like the new terms
and decided to walk away.
It was kind of last minute, so all of these marinas that you see
listed here, right now they have very minimal services, I mean, very
minimal, because the previous vendor not only took all the inventory,
which is rightly hers, but basically emptied out the store. So we're
providing minimal services at all these places.
Having said that, looking at this slide, how does this compare to
what our previous vendor had? Because our strong suggestion up
here was if we're going to renegotiate, like I said, we're not looking to
June 27, 2023
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make it be necessarily a cash cow for the County, but have it be a
smarter business contract.
So what would these numbers be if we were looking at the
previous vendor? How much did that person get compared to what
these new numbers are? Is it much different? We were hoping it
was.
MS. EDWARDS: It is. The previous vendor received
4 -- excuse me -- 96 percent of everything, and the County received
4 percent. With these numbers right here, we get 8 percent of all
gross sales, 6 percent of the fuel sales, and we get 100 percent of the
watercraft rentals and parking fees.
So even if they do take parking for us, say the meter is down.
The County will get $9. The vendor would get a dollar for
administrative costs for the credit card fees and things like that, but
this is a much better deal because we're basically collecting money
from the vendor, and we don't have to provide the service.
I also want to note as well that with this vendor, they want to
provide watercraft rentals. Now, this was some of the things that
came up with this contract. We're not taking anything away from
the current commercial vendors, but this is also another revenue
source that -- if awarded, that this vendor can bring in revenue that
the County will receive a percentage off of.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What percent would we get of
that? Do you know?
MS. EDWARDS: Eight percent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, 8 percent.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'm just sitting here trying
to do math in public. When you said it was -- the previous contract
was 96 percent to the vendor, 4 percent to us, this breaks it out a little
bit different. But under the previous contract, the -- let's see. We've
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got -- so we got 4 percent of gross sales under the previous
contractor? We get 8 percent now, right?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What did we get from fuel? Did
we get anything from fuel under the previous?
MS. EDWARDS: It was 4 percent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We got 4 percent. Now it's 6.
And then the launch fees and parking fees, did we get 100 percent
under --
MS. EDWARDS: It was 4 percent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We got 4. So that's the big
difference. And, you know, that was one of the things that we had
an issue with.
There's other people lit up here, so I'll just ask one more
question and then probably circle back. But a lot of emails from
some of the commercial businesses who rent watercraft, and I really
appreciate -- I pushed most of those, really all of them, to
Mr. Rodriguez. And not to -- and I did that not to nickel and dime
you-all, but he really is the -- was -- it was really the authority on all
of this from day one. You know, we've had a lot of change. You
all are new positions. And I just knew that Mr. Rodriguez knew,
like, the whole story to tell some of these vendors that were sending
me, in particular, emails saying, if you allow this person to rent all
these watercrafts and everything, you're basically putting us out of
business.
And I actually got a "thank you" note just recently from the
person you traded notes with a couple of hours ago saying -- he's not
completely happy, but your sense of urgency and your response, he's
like, okay, don't love it, but kind of get it.
But for the group here, what's your response to that? Because
we're not sitting here trying to, I don't want to say, put anyone out of
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business, but we are trying to run a more efficient operation there.
And when we have so many businesses, cats and dogs doing this and
that, I think the spirit behind having this vendor at least do those
types of rentals, and -- I'm correct in saying, part of this contract
doesn't allow anybody else to rent those type of things. He has an
exclusive on renting those type of watercraft, correct or no?
MS. EDWARDS: No, sir. So with this -- this is an additional
revenue source for the vendor, but -- possibly, excuse me.
Additional possible revenue source for the vendor. We're not trying
to eliminate any of the commercial vendors currently right now. I
know the biggest draw has been Caxambas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. EDWARDS: And with Caxambas, as you know, we're
going through a rezoning process with the City of Marco.
Eventually we have to reduce the number of
commercial -- commercial vendors at Caxambas. But, for
example -- and this is what I explained to the current vendors that we
have -- if we're saying no commercial activity at Caxambas, whether
this person has a permit currently right now with the County, that
means no commercial activity --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. EDWARDS: -- you know.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But for the other places, if he's got
the exclusive contract to rent watercraft, and there's some other
people that have -- like -- we'll use Goodland for an example or Port
of the Islands. There's other vendors out there that were doing the
same thing. Are they not allowed to do it because he has
exclusivity?
MS. EDWARDS: No. They're allowed. There's no
exclusivity in this contract.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Because that was some of
June 27, 2023
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the pushback.
So, Mr. Rodriguez, was that sort of the confusion by a few of
those vendors who were crying foul? They're like, oh, this guy's
got -- you know, he's got carte blanche over all of the watercraft
activities, and now, you know, you're putting us all out of business.
So that's not correct?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: That's not correct. For the record, Dan
Rodriguez, your Deputy County Manager.
I think with the commercial vendors, because of all the activity
in the last two years to kind of regain control of our ramps, they're
kind of, you know, running -- walking on eggshells. They're kind of,
what's going on next?
What this allows, those vendors that show up with the
commercial permits with kayaks and whatnot, remember they have
websites, they have their own base, they have hoteliers that call them
up and say, hey, I've got 20 people that want to go on your kayak
business. So their business occurs outside.
This is where, eventually, or possibly in the future, or may not,
where you get, you know, a grandfather and grandson show up and
say, hey, I'd like to get a kayak, and they're buying bait right there.
They can grab a kayak or a paddleboard just for ease of use.
The challenges we've had, as you know very well, in Caxambas,
Goodland, you get a van show up with a trailer with about 50 to 80
kayaks, and all of a sudden they're unloading and staging in our
parking lot. That needs to -- that's gotten cleaned up in the last year
and a half.
And we just want to make sure that this vendor has the most
opportunity to be successful. They're open seven days a week, 10 to
12 hours a day. They've got to staff it, each site.
And as you know, personnel expenses is one of the largest
expenses. So we have a responsibility to provide that level of
June 27, 2023
Page 184
service to the community, but also that vendor needs to have a fair
wage in earnings in their goods and services.
But I will tell you, that last bullet point, that 100 percent parking
fees and boat launch fees is a tremendous win. And I remember you,
Commissioner, as well as Commissioner McDaniel last year, kind of
put us on notice.
And, again, this contract has flexibility. They can come back
and say, this isn't working. Staff can come back and say, you know
what? We don't like how you're managing our contractors with the
commercial permits. This is a performance-based contract in that we
have opportunity here to modify and clean it up as we move forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So just a couple of
observations for the commissioners.
So this excludes Tigertail where we normally had a contract,
but, you know, that's a very thin operation right now. We're
basically selling food and water just through vending machines.
And it's been successful. I haven't had one complaint.
I mean, people miss Tony Smith, who was out there years
ago -- predates me -- and I still hear that every once in a while. But
we're at least providing the bare essentials. People aren't looking to
buy bait and ice at Tigertail, so that one's still one that, I guess,
remains on auto pilot through Parks and Rec.
Can you -- can you just go forward one more slide, and
then -- okay -- yeah, so right there. So I understand this 60 days for
a Cocohatchee and Caxambas because, basically, the number on
Caxambas doesn't matter all that much because there's so much
damage. It's not like you can move in there. But there's no way to
tighten that timeline for Port of the Islands and Goodland? I mean,
they're sitting there basically fully ready, totally fixed. The store is
sitting there, I guess, you know, pretty much empty, ready to move
in. He really needs two months to be able to get in there?
June 27, 2023
Page 185
And, you know, one of the things that I've said to staff, you
know, privately, is I hope this contractor, if we elect to move
forward, is prioritizing the things that we need him to bring out there.
And we don't need him to turn the marina back into a 7-Eleven on
day one, but we need to get ice, bait, water, you know, some of the
basics out there, and I would hope it wouldn't take 60 days to do that,
especially once we either -- if we did give the thumbs up on this
contract. But I'm not part of the negotiations.
Was that just sort of a number sort of out of the air just to give
him maximum time? Because I mean, I sit here and go, wow, are we
going to go two more months with -- and, granted, it's not season, but
even to the handful of people that use those marinas -- and it's more
than a handful -- they're not happy right now. They realize that the
contract was very one sided, and everybody understands our
rationale, and I get very few people that don't get what we decided to
do here to run things more like a business and have it be balanced.
But I do get a lot of feedback from folks that go, hey, I know
that your Parks and Rec folks are trying hard and they have a vending
machine that sells water and, you know, they've got, you know, a
machine out there that sells, you know, some basic food items, but
these guys are really looking for, at these big marinas, ice and bait.
And it was easier to say, well, we can't -- we're not able to do
that right now through Parks and Rec, but we're about to pull the
trigger on a -- on a vendor that we're excited about. But after we
give the green light, we're really going to still be under the current
circumstances for possibly 60 days, even for the bare essentials?
MS. EDWARDS: So this was for revenue collection where we
will receive the revenue. They have 60 days or less to get this done.
If we can get it done in 15, 30 days, once they're telling us they're
ready to go, we can go ahead and make it happen. But we want to
make sure that they had a buffer. We don't know if they were able to
June 27, 2023
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get their permits on time or anything, so we would give them that
time to get what they needed to get together.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just want to make sure we're clear
to the vendor in saying, listen, you don't have to have every Milky
Way bar in the store before you cut the ribbon and unlock the door.
If you can, you know, get the freezers turned back on, stuff them with
ice, water, and bait and have somebody there to sell those items, and
then, you know, at least your store's open, and then you could start to
increase the inventory over time, that's really what our citizens are
looking for.
I guess my last question will be, what's the reputation of this
vendor? So I know we didn't get 50 bids because, regardless,
these -- these aren't cash cow businesses at times, although these
bigger parks, they're profit-makers. So, I mean -- but what's
the -- what can you tell us about this particular vendor that you're
recommending?
MS. EDWARDS: From talking to other vendors and from the
vendor's actual proposal, they've only been in business for two years,
but they do have experience in this. I haven't heard anything
negative. The current vendor has also been a commercial vendor
since 2015, so they have a good reputation. And we'll go from there,
so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean -- but we heard
something similar about the previous Tigertail person, as you know.
You know, I'm not throwing you under the bus or anything. But
once Tony Smith exited and we didn't really get a lot of bids, and
then a guy came in from Orlando, I think, and had this, oh, he's done
this a million times at 100 places and everything, and he lasted, you
know, just a handful of months.
And that wasn't because he was incompetent, but I think he must
not have owned a calculator, because Tigertail, we knew, wasn't a
June 27, 2023
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cash-cow business. He exclusively bid on Tigertail and then was
disappointed that, you know, he wasn't, you know, selling 100
chicken sandwiches a day in the off-season, and we could have told
him that. So I think we're doing smart things at Tigertail now just
providing the basics.
But can you go forward one more slide? Was there a slide after
this? No, that was just questions.
Okay. I'll go to my commissioners here. Commissioner
McDaniel and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go back to that slide. And
the question that I had was, is this a -- is this a grace period of no
payment to the County from those collected revenues, or is this just a
spell for them to be able to offset their upfront costs and then start
paying based upon revenues that they collected at 60 days previous?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir, that's what it is. It's a grace period
for them from their start date to not have to pay the County revenue
until they can get their first operational costs together.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because my suggestion
was -- and I've done -- I did this in the mining business -- was I set
the -- because there's a period of time for collections and so on and so
forth. But I -- you run your business for the month of January but
you don't pay for it until that -- you don't pay for that until April.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you set that up after, and
then you're collecting February and May [sic] and so on. So we're
not just giving away the revenue -- that's not correct, because what
you just explained to me is not what I understand. What I
understood you to say was we're abating the revenue for the County
for January.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And February.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And February. We're giving
June 27, 2023
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them 60 days to sell as much as they can and not have to pay
anything.
What I'm suggesting is we set the first payment up to be 60 days
in arrears to allow for the offset of the inventory and staffing and all
of the upfront costs that they may, in fact, incur, but we don't start
collecting until -- they don't start paying us for 60 days. That was
my thought.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They don't pay us for 60 days, but
then they're paying us from the -- they don't get two free months of
collecting 100 percent of the -- like, the way this is worded, I think
that's how we're sort of interpreting it is that the day he opens, he gets
two free months of selling everything he can and then starts paying us
on the 61st day with the profits that you have on the slide before this,
and I don't think that's what you mean.
Commissioner McDaniel is explaining it exactly how -- the way
it normally does work in business. He pays us for the very first time
on the 60th day, but he pays us for the first month, you know, or the
second month that he opened. So he doesn't get 60 days of free
money.
So that's -- it's important that this contract's written properly or
that we didn't cut some sort of deal with him giving him two free
months of 100 percent of the profits, and I don't think that's the
impression. We're allowing him to collect money and build his
coffers so that when he gets to the 60th day, he can pay us for the
first 30 days of the contract. I'm hoping that's the -- are we clear
or --
MS. EDWARDS: You are clear now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. WILLIAMS: For the record, Tanya Williams, Public
Services department head.
Just for clarity, the 60 days' time clock starts the moment this
June 27, 2023
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contract is executed. So if you approve this contract today,
execution day is today, and that 60-day clock begins now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But that's not my point, dear.
And forgive me for the "dear."
MS. WILLIAMS: That's okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My point is we -- I would
prefer we collect from day one but not be paid for 60 days, not have
an abatement of the income -- because this is the other side of the
equation, and you didn't hit on this, and that's we're -- the County's
responsible for 100 percent of the maintenance, always has been,
ongoing expenses, we pay for that.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. For the record, Commissioner,
Dan Rodriguez.
The payment -- they're payments in arrears. So, basically,
when they sign that contract, they're paying us 8 percent, 6 percent,
out the gate. And so they've got the 60-day time period to make
their first payment for those first two months.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: For the first month.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: You got it. Yeah, we would --
COMMISSIONER HALL: And that's what we wanted.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I'm going to simplify it real,
real simple, okay? If he opened on July 1st and started selling stuff,
right, so he sold stuff the entire month of July, sold stuff the entire
month of August, we would get -- we would get no money, but on 1
September, which is basically the 61st day, he would pay us for July
and August, and that's how the payments would go.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Correct?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, good. That's what we all
want up here, because that's how business works. So we want to
June 27, 2023
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make sure we're running this like a business, because the last
contractor seemed to be a lot smarter than not -- than the County, and
we're trying to fix that.
But I guess my question would be would he just pay us for
July -- like, in September he'd pay us for July, in October he'd pay us
for August? Do we -- you know, I mean, it's important we
understand the nuances of this contract because, you know, we're
trying to tighten it and improve it.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Once he gets his cycle going, then every
30 days --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Every 30 days, right, okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that's fine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, that makes sense.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The other thing was
the -- and it may have gotten already discussed, but there was a -- I
got an email from -- from Zach that talked about the RFP that -- the
original RFP that went out did not include the opportunity to have
commercial boat rentals. And so his client didn't bid on the -- on the
entire -- on the entire system because he -- it wasn't included in
the -- in the RFP.
MS. HERRERA: Good afternoon. Sandra Herrera,
procurement director, for the record.
It was included as part of the RFP. Criteria No. 3 lists that all
bidders are required to provide any additional bidding opportunities
for rentals. So as part of the criteria, anybody that wanted to bid on
it could bid and offer any future rental opportunities.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So it was part of the RFP that
went out?
MS. HERRERA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that was just an incorrect
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statement, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But it was a -- if it was written like
that, that was a little bit of a nuance. So Zach sent us all the same
email. His client maybe didn't see it in lights, right, but, I mean, if it
had that sort of generic statement at the bottom, you've got to be
astute enough to know that that's your -- that's your wide-open door
to add any other additional extras. I mean, that's Contracting 101.
MS. HERRERA: And it reads, list any rental opportunities or
plans that would be incorporated into the facility.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. HERRERA: So, again, it's an RFP, so we're asking the
vendor to [sic] community to provide those future opportunities.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And my other statements or
question had to do with the RFP itself, and that was, we did the -- we
did these for parks en masse. We didn't allow for someone to pick
one or the other?
MS. HERRERA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So they had to take them all
or none?
MS. HERRERA: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think our backup plan was,
though, if we got no bids, then we would -- we would maybe break
them out, but I think we were hoping to have one vendor, because
some of these parks are more lucrative than others, and if they took
the whole kit and caboodle, we thought, you know, I mean, I guess,
you know, we wanted to see on the bids if that -- if somebody, you
know, thought it was advantageous to them, and they obviously
thought that it was.
Commissioner Saunders and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
June 27, 2023
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I think Commissioner McDaniel addressed the issue I was
concerned about. We have the letter from Zach Lombardo. I don't
know if there's anybody here from Paddle Marco by any chance.
No? Yes? Okay.
And it does sound like that language may be a little bit
confusing in terms of the general "you can bid on other stuff." I just
want to make sure that we treated everybody fairly. I did have a
conversation with Ms. Edwards earlier, and I think -- I think we did.
But I just want to give Paddle Marco an opportunity to express their
concern, and perhaps we can address that. But I think you -- I think
you covered it, but I just want to make sure. I want to make sure
everybody's treated fairly.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I saw those emails, too, yeah. Is
somebody here from Paddle Marco?
MR. LIVESEY: Permission to speak?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. No, absolutely.
MR. MILLER: I do have two registered speakers. I don't
know if it's either one of these people.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, we'll get to this gentleman
first, but we'll see if you can compare notes and see if he's one of the
two speakers.
MR. LIVESEY: I'm one of the speakers.
MR. MILLER: Are you Glenn?
MR. LIVESEY: Yeah.
MR. MILLER: All right. So it's been a long day. I couldn't
remember what you looked like.
MR. LIVESEY: All right. So, yeah. Paddle Marco. My
name's Glenn. I've been doing it eight years out of Caxambas.
MR. MILLER: State your last name, please.
MR. LIVESEY: Oh, Glenn Livesey.
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
June 27, 2023
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MR. LIVESEY: Been doing it eight years out of Caxambas
and Isles of Capri Paddle Craft Park. Always enjoyed working with
the County. I appreciate the opportunities the counties have given us
to work on those properties most of the time.
So when this bid proposal came up, I think it was in February, I
took a look at it, because we've all been waiting around patiently for
the marinas to open so we can get part of our livelihoods back.
And I looked at the bid proposal, and I saw, okay, it didn't
include watersport rentals, but I wanted to be sure, because our
commercial permits always seem to be in jeopardy.
So I asked a question on BidSync as well as the County email.
The question stated is: If I was to bid on the county marinas on
BidSync right now, I am wondering if I would be able to rent kayaks,
jet skis, et cetera, as a concessionaire, or is it strictly managing the
marina, fuel, bait, et cetera? Thank you.
My response from the County 10 days later was: No, this is
strictly for managing marina, fuel, bait, et cetera.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Who sent you that? Who was
the -- who was that person?
MR. LIVESEY: That is from Christopher Lo -- let me look.
Christopher -- Christopher Lopez, and that is a procurement person.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. LIVESEY: That is a procurement strategist for Collier
County.
So I said, okay. It's going to be business as usual. It's just a
new person running the marinas. I don't have to worry about
someone having kayak racks there taking all the walkup traffic, et
cetera.
So I didn't bid on it, and 10 or 12 other companies didn't bid on
it as well. All the jet ski guys would have bid on this stuff -- kayak
guys would have bid on this stuff if we would have had a foothold in
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there, but we were under the impression, especially with this question
being answered by the County, that it wouldn't include watersport
rentals --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. LIVESEY: -- because that would be an unfair advantage.
I understand Olema, she put our mind a little bit at ease, that our
commercial permits are not in jeopardy for now. That's awesome.
But two years down the road, I don't want somebody to come
and say, hey, this BluWater's doing real good, you know. And it's
she, by the way. Her name's Cam. She's doing real good. I think
she can handle all this. We don't need these other 20 companies. I
don't want that to happen, because I've been around way longer than
her, as all the other companies. I do about 14,000 customers a year,
and she's doing four jet skis to eight jet skis, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. LIVESEY: Okay. So I've drawn a lot of revenue for this
county.
Other notes here -- I've got 30 seconds.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, we're not going to -- we're not
going to cut you off.
MR. LIVESEY: All right. I left my speech in the car, but it's
all in my head.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can we address that
initial -- because your initial -- you know, I mean, to me this is black
and white. We're here all about transparency. So this seems very
black and white that he asked a very clear question, somebody from
our staff came back and said, no, absolutely not, and then, you know,
the contract that we're sitting here with has those nuances that are
different. So, you know, separate rumor from fact here --
MS. HERRERA: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- because what I'm hearing here
June 27, 2023
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seems clear, but what are we missing?
MS. HERRERA: So the RFP was to outsource the marinas. It
was not specific for kayaking or watercrafts. While the solicitation
did have a Criteria Number 3, like I mentioned earlier, where we did
want the vendor or [sic] community to provide any additional rentals.
At the time that the question was posed, county staff, Parks/Rec,
did not intend to include specifically kayak rentals. It came up
during negotiations.
Now, BluWater, as part of their proposal, did include that
component in their proposal to offer future services for kayak rentals.
So during negotiations, that was discussed with your Parks director,
and it was accepted to increase that revenue.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That seems -- you know, we're
not -- I've got other people lit up here. That seems, like, unfair to me
because, you know, you're supposed to negotiate what you've
advertised. So if then the person that was sort of like the winner or
the first (unintelligible) you negotiate with then starts changing the
rules or comes up with sort of a better mouse trap, these guys don't
know it. And so, you know, really, Contracting 101 doesn't really
work that way, unless you tell me something different. So I
understand what happened. I was BluWater. I got called to the
table, and then it was like, hey, let me see if I can -- now I've got a
one-on-one conversation with the County. But, you know, the
bottom line is what this gentleman says -- Glenn, right?
MR. LIVESEY: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What Glenn says to me has merit
or tell me why it doesn't, because it seems like that after-the-fact
negotiation after everybody else was sort of boxed out is a foul.
I -- you know, I don't want to jump too far ahead, but if
BluWater -- unless I'm missing something -- would have come to me
as a county negotiator, I would have said, well, no, that's not part of
June 27, 2023
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initial bid, but it's a great idea. And it could have been a subsequent
thing that went out for bid, and then BluWater could have amended
their contract after Glenn and a whole bunch of other people bid, and
then it would have been more of a competition. But it seems like,
you know, BluWater sort of had a -- has a little bit of a corner on
the -- on the market to be able to sort of, like, add in the extra pieces
to their contract to make it better for them, and, because none of these
guys bid off of the initial contract, there really was no competition.
So it made the contract better for BluWater, but, you know, I
think Glenn's got a solid point here. I think, you know, the
negotiations should have been what was in the initial RFP. And
even though that line was in there, saying, oh -- you know, it gave
you an opening to say, oh, and any other possible rentals. If he
wouldn't have read that email, I would have said, well, you know
what -- but he actually asked for clarification.
If he would not -- Glenn, if you would have not sent that email, I
would sit here and go, man, you've got to read fine print, Glenn. It
was right in there. It said that you could have put anything, but you
were unsure of that.
And, you know, that's why I said, I'm not trying to throw Carlos
under the bus, but, you know, we're here to be transparent. I want to
know who from the staff, you know, gave you that very definitive
direction. And it may not have been an error. Maybe that was the
direction that that county contractor got, but then it seemed like after
the fact when we zeroed in on BluWater, then we started to sort of
tweak the contract. I don't know how my colleagues feel, and I've
got two lit up here, but --
MS. HERRERA: And just to clarify for the record, BluWater's
proposal already included that, so it was discussed during negotiation
because it was already part of their proposal. So at no time did they
modify their proposal, because it was already there.
June 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But he was looking to make a
proposal and was told that he couldn't, right?
MR. LIVESEY: As well as other companies.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MS. HERRERA: And the question was specific to the kayak
rental services. Again, the essence of the RFP was to hire a
concessionaire for all of the services, not just that one component.
MR. LIVESEY: I have no issue with BluWater. She's a nice
lady. My request -- and I think this would be the right thing to
do -- is honor the contract, but you need to remove the watersport
rental aspect of it. That's already being serviced by us and 20, 30
other people that work collectively at these parks. The watersport
rental was never in the initial bid proposal. If it was, we would have
bid on it. So I would like to just request to have that removed;
otherwise, she can do the rest. That's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just ask you this, though.
So you were -- you were looking to make a bid if you could have had
the water rental craft in there, but do you realize that if you would
have got the bid, you would have had to run a convenience store full
of stuff, which doesn't sound like your area of expertise.
MR. LIVESEY: The only -- the only way I would have bid is if
watersport rentals was included, and now looking at it, it's clear as
day that it's in the considerations. And now it's like, okay, if that
was being negotiated and we didn't know about it, I would have been
interested in it, as would other companies. But it seems like it's
being slipped in here in the 11th inning or whatever.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me go to my colleagues.
Commissioner Hall and then Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Glenn. I mean, I don't
know what the opportunity is that we have to put it out for bid to
make it clear to allow everybody to include watercraft and gas and a
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management. I don't know if that's a possibility.
But the questions that I have for you is 6 percent of fuel and
8 percent of sales, who is footing the bill for the cost of goods?
Does the County buy the fuel or does the vendor buy the fuel?
MS. EDWARDS: The vendor buys the fuel.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. As long as that's
happening, I'm good with the gross sales figure. If we were buying
the fuel, I would want something on gross profit. Okay. No
worries.
Is any cash accepted?
MS. EDWARDS: That is a good question. In regards to?
COMMISSIONER HALL: In regards to sales at any of these
places.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, yes. They have -- the vendor has to
have a point-of-sale system. So they can take cash, credit card,
unless we just tell them that we want them just to do credit cards.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's pretty easy to fudge numbers
with cash.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, actually, that was an
accusation by the past vendor that I heard from some of the residents
that are in my district and Port of the Islands, that they made the
comment when they entered the store in those last final months -- and
just totally un- -- you know, I'm just telling you the one-sided. We
didn't do a big investigation. It was kind of after the fact -- that they
were encouraged to pay cash.
And to Commissioner Hall's point, if that encouragement was
there, then there was probably some -- you know, a possibility of
some skim going on, was -- and also, too, we had caught that
previous vendor doing some other things, sort of renting additional
parking spots for trailers -- Mr. Rodriguez knows all about this -- and
taking 100 percent of the profits, and those trailers were parked on
June 27, 2023
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county property.
So I don't want to get too much into the weeds, but that is a valid
point that is something that -- you know, we've got to make sure that,
you know, money's not leaking out of the back.
Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- on the note of the
watercraft rental, is there an opportunity to exclude that out of
BluWater's contract and just -- well, we have -- we have licensed
commercial companies that actually do these businesses at our
different parks and ramps. So just take that portion out of the lease
and go ahead and go forward with the BluWater management of
these four parks and allow the vendors to come and go? Because
these folks -- now, it doesn't address that email that Glenn has that --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He could have got the whole
contract.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, him or any other of the
other 20 vendors that saw that email that didn't bid on this agreement.
So it may be prudent for us to rebid this with more clarity.
MR. KLATZKOW: You can change the terms of the contract,
but then the vendor has the opportunity to walk away.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: So if you want to make any changes to
this, that's your prerogative. That's why we bring it to you. But
then the vendor can either accept your changes or walk away.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
And I'm just -- you know, he's one commercial contractor that
has a kayank -- kayak. I call them kayanks -- a kayak business that
he does, and there may have been other vendors that saw that email
from procurement that didn't bid on this that could have bid on this or
would have bid on this but didn't because their primary business is
the watercraft rental.
June 27, 2023
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MR. RODRIGUEZ: Commissioner, if I may, for the record,
just to clarify something, these vendors, the commercial kayakers that
come to our facilities, it's launch and go. They should not be staging
in our parking lots and waiting for walkups.
If you go to Isles of Capri Kayak Launch, you'll see 80 kayaks
trying to be launched at once by commercial vendors, and the
residents have to wait and wait to launch their single kayak.
So the intent of this contract is to give some options in the
future. That doesn't mean the director has to approve it. If you'd
like, we can bring that back for the Board to approve it if we have a
better understanding of how that might work. But the goal of this
contract, as our procurement director clearly stated, was a
concessionaire to manage the fuel and the distribution of goods and
services to the public.
The fact that they offered that as a potential service is something
that we would look at in the future. Let's say they can't maintain
their personnel because of shortages in revenues out of season and
whatnot. That may be an option.
And, again, the commercial vendors of kayak companies, as
well as others, should not be using these Parks facilities to operate
their business. They can't use it to advertise. They're there to
launch and go.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. That's been -- that
was primarily one of our issues for limiting the permits in the first
place, because they were setting up camp in the parking spots and
waiting for the phone to ring, so --
But I do appreciate the fact that, you know, a potential bidder on
this RFP that we put out was told that it was specifically for the
management of the -- of the facilities and didn't include the rental
aspect of it. That is a concern.
MR. LIVESEY: If I could add one thing real quick,
June 27, 2023
Page 201
parking -- paddle craft parking, no issues with parking, and there's
always a middle section for people to get through. There's never a
time people have to wait. In fact, all week long, all those cars in the
parking lot are our customers and two other companies. You might
see one or two recreational people.
I know you get a lot of complaints, but a lot of times they're
from the same five guys who are antibusiness. So I want to just let
you know we're courteous about that.
And that's pretty much all I have to say. I know there's one
other speaker here, Maria, that would like to add. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, second speaker.
MR. MILLER: The second speaker is Maria Reilly.
MS. REILLY: Hello. Thank you, Collier County
Commissioners, for the time.
I will refer to the proposal from BluWater Rentals, a
(unintelligible) rental operator that will take over all four marinas:
Goodland, Caxambas, Port of the Islands, and Cocohatchee.
My main concern is the plans to incorporate watercraft rentals
from the vendor. I see this as a conflict of interest. Currently, the
marinas have tour operators that offer those services, and the main
issue with the companies that operate with permits is parking and
dealing with the other vendors that still operate without permits.
Collier County announced that no more permits will be issued,
and I see this plan as a problem because the new vendor is a tour
operator, which will create a conflict, offering more services when
there's companies that already have permits.
Marinas have been saturated. I don't see where there should be
a stationary vendor that can provide these services. I see this as an
ongoing problem for the County in the future still trying to resolve
the current issues developed in the commercial permit program.
The vendor currently has three permits. Eventually, she could
June 27, 2023
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offer other activities with those three permits she currently has. But
the County had made it clear that there are no new permits to be
issued because parks had reached their maximum capacity.
Currently, companies have to trailer their equipment and cannot
show up with them without reservations. How is it possible that the
vendor would be allowed to have stationary kayaks, paddleboards,
wave runners, and other watercrafts, and would the vendor maybe
sublease these?
The main idea for a vendor taking over four marinas is to satisfy
daily operations, maintenance, safety, security, sell fuel, bait, ice,
food, drinks, snacks, et cetera.
The problem with the conflict of interest, I see it as a continuous
commercial permit issued. I would urge the Board to further review
the proposal from BluWater, LLC, Page 6, Item 7, plans to
incorporate watercraft rentals. This decision wouldn't benefit the
County or users of the ramp, commercial or residential.
The proposal for Goodland was kayaks, paddleboards, fishing
posts, boats, and wave runners; Port of the Islands: Kayaks and
boats; Caxambas: Kayaks, paddleboards, fishing posts, no
motorized vessels; and Cocohatchee: Kayaks, paddle boards, fishing
posts and boat and wave runners.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was our only speaker, those two.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, really, what I've heard here,
the only thing that just really concerns me significantly -- the biggest
thing that concerns me significantly is what our county person replied
back to Glenn with -- Carlos -- because, you know, that vendor and
many others were operating off of the thought that, you know, they
were -- you know, they weren't going to make a bid on the entire kit
and caboodle because it didn't include the thing that they really
specialized in, and so then they walked away.
June 27, 2023
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And then once BluWater, who felt like they specialized in
everything, sealed the deal, then they kind of added in a bunch of
extras that Glenn and a bunch of others were told weren't going to
ever be a part of the contract. So that doesn't really sit great with
me.
I don't know how colleagues feel. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The way I see it, we have two
choices. We have a choice to award the contract to BluWater with
the exclusion of the watercraft, or we go back and rebid it apples to
apples.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Or the third, you know,
when we go back to -- if we went back to BluWater and said it's
going to exclude watercraft, like the County Attorney said, they could
walk, and then we're back to Option 2.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So it's sort of a -- Commissioner
McDaniel, and then Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's exactly what I was
going to say. It's -- we either issue the contract and exclude the
watercraft rentals and allow that to be --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- on an independent basis, or
we go back out to bid again.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. And if we excluded
watercraft and BluWater didn't walk, then you go out to bid for the
watercraft part. BluWater can bid on it, but then it's more
transparent to everybody else and BluWater might not get it. It
might be, you know, a different vendor, and then how you made that
work, I don't know, you know, I mean, because BluWater now owns
the marina store, and they probably were going to have all their
kayaks and everything sort of as part of that operation. If somebody
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else came in and got, like, a secondary contract and was also able to
operate, you know, the watercraft business out of there -- but, I mean,
I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I could see that as
being overly complicated.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, I just think we have a responsibility to be transparent in
this situation. I mean, it may have just been a mistake or an
oversight, you know, when the gentleman answered that email, but he
did answer it. And what he read, the gentleman here today read, it
sounded like he was interested in putting a bid in, but when he didn't
have the option to do the rental portion, he said, you know what? It's
probably not worth it.
You know, I can do the rental thing, great. I'll put up with
doing the other part just to have an exclusivity to rent -- you know, to
have a brick-and-mortar place to rent from one of our parks, which I
think is a big selling point.
So I think we need to have clarity up front, and I think, if we
exclude it, it's up to BluWater to walk away or not. I mean, it
doesn't matter. You know, that's on them. But I think moving
forward, we've got to be very, very clear what we're willing to allow
them to do or not do, because this is what happens when we're not
clear. And we definitely -- you know, I was sitting here, until he
read that email, and I'm like -- yeah, I don't like it. It's muddy. So
that's my feeling on the whole thing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So what are you saying? Do
you think we ought to rebid or exclude it --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think we should go to
BluWater and say, listen, because of this transparency issue -- and we
want to be transparent with our vendors and our public -- that we're
probably going to remove that from the contract, you know, under
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our discussion here today. And if they want to stay with what they
have, that's fine. If they -- you know, without that, then that's on
them. And then if they walk away, then we rebid it being very clear
what we're going to allow the vendor to do.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And we can explain it to them, like,
they took the old adage "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than
permission." So they just included their watercraft. But in this
gentleman's case, he asked the question, and he was excluded, you
know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: From even bidding on the
whole thing.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- by even bidding on it, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got Commissioner Saunders lit
up here. Let's give him -- go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, I agree with
everything that's been said in terms of clarity, and I did have a bit of a
concern with that. But in my conversation with Ms. Edwards earlier
today, there was a -- there is a timing problem, so we need to
understand what that timing problem is.
If you go to the vendor and take out the kayak rental and they
say, yes, they'll continue on it, that's fine. But if they say no, then
we have, I believe, a really tight schedule here. So we need to
understand what that is so we can be prepared for that.
MS. EDWARDS: If we do, we will not have the necessary
services. So that means your ice, your bait, because as Parks and
Recreation staff, we're not set up, I guess you could say, to offer
these services right now. And if it does back out to bid again, you're
looking at an additional four months -- four to six months, excuse me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why that long when this was a
little bit quicker? This didn't take four to six months, did it?
MS. HERRERA: It will be an RFP process, not an ITB, so it's
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a little bit of a longer process.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But we have, from time to
time, shortened that process. So I'm not sure how much we can
shorten it, but I know we -- I know we can, but it's just a matter of
how much. I mean, you've already got the basic document.
MS. HERRERA: We would -- yes. So we would, in essence,
reissue the solicitation and make that clarification.
And, again, for the record, just to clarify, the intent of the RFP
was to have a concessionaire to provide all the services. When the
question came in, it was not the County's intention to explore that
option. During negotiations, it was considered, and it was accepted
by county staff to include the watercrafts.
So we can definitely go back to the vendor, have a discussion to
remove that, and then bring it back to the Board.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And then if you sharpen
your pencil a little bit, what's the quickest you could do an RFP? I
know you don't have to have it out on the streets for months at a time.
MS. HERRERA: We would reduce, in essence, the time for
advertisement. Typically, we do the 30-day advertisement, and we
could reduce that to 21 days and then bring it back to the Board. We
would have a selection committee meeting, so that would take
another month, and that's why Ms. Olema said anywhere from four to
six months.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Who is on the selection
committee?
MS. HERRERA: I can look that up. I don't have it with me.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Is it all staff folks?
MS. HERRERA: Yes. County staff, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So you could have a
selection committee meeting on rather short notice.
MS. HERRERA: Yes.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I'm not understanding
why it would take as long as you're suggesting. I would think that
you would be able to do the RFP, issue that very quickly, have it on
the street for a couple of weeks, have a committee meeting as soon as
they come in, and then be back in front of us. I would think 45 to 60
days would be more than enough time, versus three or four months.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And here's why I agree with that as
well, is the word's already out there, so this has been advertised once.
So this isn't some unknown thing.
And Glenn and the rest of the universe are going to spread -- if
we go this direction -- are going to spread that word like wildfire.
Hey, the rebidding is -- you know, is being reopened.
And so, you know, we're dealing with known vendors who I
think are aware of this. I'm not saying any of this is great, but if
Glenn wouldn't have read that email, I think you would have got a
unanimous vote here for BluWater.
But, you know, when I read that, we've got -- you know, we've
got to be, you know, not only transparent, but, you know, we've got
to serve with integrity here. And maybe it was an oversight. I'm
not -- I don't think any of us are saying that there was sort of -- and I
understand your explanation of, hey, this was the bid, but then when
we sort of sat down at the table -- but you sat down at the table with
one vendor after everybody else walked out the door. They didn't
get the opportunity to sit down at the table and sort of negotiate that
kind of thing either.
So the way contracts work is everybody gets a fair shot, and
knowing that we might have had one or a dozen different vendors not
even bid because they thought it was sort of a very finite set of rules,
and then once BluWater came up -- to Commissioner Hall's point, it's
perfectly said. It's like you, you know, better to, you know, beg
forgiveness than ask permission. That's sort of what happened.
June 27, 2023
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And, you know, I don't love it.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It also brings up a point:
These were sealed bids. Now BluWater's numbers are out. We
didn't put out an RFP that says, you're going to pay us 6 percent and
8 percent and 100 percent. Those numbers are already out. So with
all due respect, Glenn knows what BluWater was willing to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- to pay.
So if we do rebid it, it has to be -- it should be -- I think it should
be under these parameters that this board finds acceptable on
those -- put those percentages back up on here for me, please -- under
these percentages. This RFP or IRT or whatever acronym she used,
these numbers should be specified in the advertisement that this is
our minimum requisites for us to -- for us to -- for everybody to be
bidding on, because if I'm BluWater and I'm looking at this, I have an
opportunity to add in boat rentals or watercraft rentals of any
kind -- of some kind of sort, but now my competition can offer
9 percent and take the bid away.
MS. EDWARDS: And, Commissioner, I would like to ask for
the Board's recommendation. He was talking about being
transparent and fair. You have a commercial vendor right now.
They already have commercial permits. Do they lose their permits
being a commercial vendor currently right now? And then also
going forward, if we are doing this, are they going to have exclusive
rights? Because currently, right now, BluWater does not have
exclusive rights. So all the commercial vendors can still operate the
same way that they're operating. But if we go out to bid for an RFP
for this particular portion, are the vendors going to lose their
commercial status? Because if it's going to be a conflict of interest,
and then, like I said, will they be allowed to have exclusive rights?
June 27, 2023
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Because that's the whole premise that people are being upset for,
and I'm trying to tell them that you're not losing your commercial
status or anything. You can still operate the same way that you
operate.
And as Ms. Sandra stated, when we first put this RFP out, it was
strictly for the marinas. We weren't thinking paddle craft. I didn't
know that this email even came up until today. So it's a solicitation.
And the only thing they can do is talk to Procurement. They can't
even talk to us, because we can't talk to the vendors.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And to your point -- and then I'll
go to Commissioner Saunders -- we're not boxing Glenn out from
doing watercraft, but his point is, hey, I could have had the whole
thing. I could have had the store. I could have had everything, and
then I could have had a brick-and-mortar place to rent my watercraft
where, you know, now you're not putting me out of business, but
somebody sort of leapfrogged me. And maybe he would have even
made a more competitive bid. Maybe he would have given
9 percent, 7 percent, and 100 percent and, you know, he would have
been the top bidder.
But we didn't even get a chance to hear from Glenn and from
some others because they were scared away by like -- by email that
he read, but BluWater wasn't, and then in the negotiations, BluWater
started adding in some sort of, like, frosting that sounded even better
to us.
And like you said, you not being aware that a bunch of other
vendors were scared off, it sounded like the BluWater deal was
sounding even better by the second. And it sounds like we're all
being made aware of this at zero hour.
You know, I don't know. Sometimes, too, when there's, you
know, SNAFUs like this -- and I'm not offering this as -- you know,
we're trying to do the right thing across the Board and whatnot, but
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also, too, we're trying to do the right thing by our citizens who, right
now, have been suffering for months with nothing.
You know, so sometimes when a company has a SNAFU, to
include the County, sometimes you swallow the spinach and go, you
know what, it wasn't perfect. Glenn, you're not being boxed -- and
I'm saying -- I'm not saying this is the answer, okay. But just talking
hypotheticals and then, you know, everybody's lit up here.
But sometimes you sit here and go, you know what? We didn't
do it perfectly, but it's 51 percent good and 49 percent bad. It's been
100 percent bad these last few months because nobody's been able to
get anything.
You know what? Lesson learned here. We didn't do it
perfectly. Glenn's not out of the business. Maybe he could have
run the store. Maybe he couldn't. Or like you said, maybe the
default is we honor the contract with BluWater, we exclude all the
frosting that she added with the paddle craft.
But, you know, if she walks away, that's going to be
disappointing as well, so -- because I know a lot of effort's gone into
this.
Let's hear from the other commissioners. Commissioner
Saunders, and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm a little bit confused, but
I'm not so sure that that's a bad thing here.
If we have a vendor that can rent the kayaks -- and let's assume
for a moment that that's not Paddle Marco. So we have -- we
have -- we go through some bid or something, and BluWater gets the
bid and has paddle -- kayak rentals, what does that do to Paddle
Marco and other vendors? That's a question for you, because do we
want to -- if -- if the operator of the facility can rent kayaks, then does
that put the independent operators out there that -- like Paddle Marco
that rent these kayaks but not on site, does that put you out of
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business?
MR. LIVESEY: No. It would just take away any potential
walk-up or people doing research walking through the park.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So we wouldn't be creating a
bigger problem for other people if we did that?
MR. LIVESEY: Her ability to rent things is still there. She
has three permits. She can bring three trailers in and rent jet skis and
kayaks at those parks, once -- especially Caxambas if it reopens to
commercial. She has that ability, but this just gives her a
brick-and-mortar. So I'd be fine with removing watersport rental.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I wanted to make sure we
weren't creating other problems by --
MR. LIVESEY: No, thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. What it does is it eliminates
the brick-and-mortar competition for the watercraft only. So the two
choices that we have, basically, are to honor the contract, exclude the
watercraft. That's the path of least resistance. That's the fastest.
She gets the first right of refusals. She either says yes or she says
no. If she says no, then we can do the expedited RFP process. And
so -- can I make a motion? Is it time to do that?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I've got a
couple -- Commissioner McDaniel's got a question, too.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, it -- she has three
licenses, so -- and she is allowed to do the watercraft rental. She
just -- we would exclude the brick-and-mortar portion from this
contract. She can still do her -- she can still do her watercraft rental
but just not have the brick-and-mortar aspect of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: She can still do it the same way the
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paddle craft does it?
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The way anybody else is
doing it, and that gets us to where we need to be as expeditiously as
possible, exclude that from her -- this agreement, and if she agrees to
it, she's in. If she doesn't agree to it, then we go back out for rebid
with these as -- with these as minimum requisites for the bid, set
these at minimums which then -- and I really think we should do that
aspect of it because they're -- you know, we have two vendors that
are here that potentially could have bid on this that didn't because of
a -- because of an email that went out that said, no, it doesn't include
what you actually do as a business, so --
MS. EDWARDS: I just want to make sure that whichever
vendor we decide, that the main focus was to make sure that we had
ice, bait, everything that we needed for the marinas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Store.
MS. EDWARDS: This is just a step-aside. And I want to
make sure that people that are bidding, that they're not bidding for
watercraft. They're bidding for what we're actually needing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well -- go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I want to share this. I
mean, those are niceties to have at the marina, but for those of us that
travel to the marina to launch our boat, we're -- I'm just as likely to
stop and get fuel on the way, and ice and food, anything else that I
need, from another vendor before I ever get to the marina. Those are
niceties to have at the marina but not necessities.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, listen, I've got to disagree with
you. I got a ton of emails from some people that live right near the
marina that use that marina. They don't travel to Walmart. They
live right across the street from the marina. They live in Goodland,
they live in Port of the Islands, and they're used to going over to the
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marina, getting ice, bait, Twinkies, 7 UP, Gatorade, water, and then
jumping in their boat, and they can't get any of that now, and so I
hear from those people all day long saying, When are you going to
get the store open?
And it was because our previous vendor provided everything.
And a lot of people used the marina stores -- at Port of the Islands,
they used it as their local 7-Eleven. They don't even have a boat, but
they would go in there and buy Twinkies, bread, milk, everything,
because it was a little general store, and now it's locked and empty.
So it's -- some of these places are more than just a little marina
store that somebody grabs shrimp and ice and then leaves. I mean,
especially the one on Port of the Islands, that one's used as the local
store because it's a little bit of a drive for them to go elsewhere. So,
I mean, that's just the reality of it.
You know, you did make a great point, though, Olema. Like,
some of the watercraft, you know, to include Glenn and others, you
know, they might have bid on the whole kit and caboodle, but that's
why I asked Glenn, hey, if you would got it, you're ready to run a
7-Eleven? So you got the brick-and-mortar for your watercraft part,
but I -- you know, just taking a guess here, I don't know that you're as
perfectly set up as BluWater to run a store that sells, milk, ice, bait,
Gatorade, and orange juice, and that's the big chunk of this.
So it would have given you boots on the ground for your
business that you're a pro at, but what we were really looking for was
a BluWater that could do all of it. And so the bigger thing is the
store and the fuel and all of that.
So if somebody that's an expert at renting, you know, kayaks,
whether it's paddle craft or somebody else -- and, granted, we won't
know. You know, Glenn could have put in a bid. He could have
found a partner. He could have done something and said, you know,
I can't do the whole thing, but I found somebody that ran four
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7-Elevens, and that's my new partner, and I'll take them all, and he
got boxed out of that.
But on the flip side also, too, it might have looked like a very
lucrative type of contract to some of these watercraft -- exclusive
watercraft companies, but I don't know, necessarily, that their bids
would have been at the top of the pile with experience showing us
that they can run four general stores, two of them pretty large ones.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. That was kind of on the
lines I was going, because I don't know the history of BluWater, but I
was just -- but I found out now that they have three permits to rent
kayaks and jet skis, and it sounds like that's the business they do. I
don't know what experience they have in retail and fuel -- refueling
and the fuel sales. I don't know what their history is in that. Do
you know?
MS. EDWARDS: One of the owners actually -- from what I
understand, one of the owners is the ex-husband of the former --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Vendor.
MS. EDWARDS: -- vendor. And so --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MS. EDWARDS: -- he said -- I'm being transparent. You-all
said be transparent here.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: My wife does mortgages all day
long. I wouldn't dare to do a mortgage, you know what I'm saying?
MS. EDWARDS: But he explained during the negotiation and
when he came in to bid that he taught her the business. So he has
joined --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: She has no real -- operating a
business like this. She's never had hands on and ran a 7-Eleven, like
the commissioner's talking about, or sold --
MS. EDWARDS: They're both together.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- fuel or worked in a gas
station?
MS. EDWARDS: They're working together. So they have a
business together. Now not the ex-vendor, but the ex-husband and
the current --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And BluWater.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. All right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So our previous vendor was Cindy.
So Cindy's ex-husband has partnered with -- let's be transparent.
Cindy's ex-husband has partnered with BluWater, and that's who
made the bid, right?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. This is a small town. We
can use real names, you know.
MS. EDWARDS: Being transparent.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just know our biggest concern
is running a retail operation.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And whatever they do on the
side that they make a little extra money doing their rental, you know,
I get it. But it sounds like her business is rental also, just like Glenn.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's her expertise. So, you
know -- and you're being very specific: I want a store.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I want a store. And you kind of
look at Glenn, well, he rents kayaks, and we're questioning if he can
run a store. He might be able to run a store just as good as she can.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or he could have found a partner
like BluWater did.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. You know what I'm
saying? I don't know at this point, so that's why I asked the question.
I don't know who BluWater is. I don't know who they are. I don't
know her ex-husband. I don't know what their experience is, that's
why I asked, and it doesn't sound like --
MS. EDWARDS: What I understand, they have experience.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So you're confident she's
done this before?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes. And if we just need to take the
watercraft rentals out, I am happy to do that. I really don't want to
have to go back out to bid because it's been this long. Currently
right now, the County is footing the bill for the fuel that we're selling
currently, right now, and we have staff dedicated to this operation
that we could be using at our park facilities.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask this. This will help a
lot.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So BluWater won the bid,
and what we heard here previously is then while we sat down in
negotiations, she was adding some little frosting things here and
there.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Whoever was in -- I don't know if
you-all were personally in the negotiations.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So -- but if you were, give us the
honest answer here. Was the contract already secured for the store,
and then, as part of sort of additional conversations, the watercraft
sounded like a positive thing, but she was already locked in?
So I'm asking you for a gut check here. Do you think she's
going to walk because the watercraft is what sealed the deal, or that
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was just sort of some extra conversations afterwards that made it that
much sweeter? But she bid on the stores, got the stores, and then the
watercraft stuff came after, which was, in my opinion, a foul. But
was the initial locked-in contract for the stores -- the stores only, she
bid, she was interested, done deal, or did it take the negotiations to
add in watercraft to really make it a deal that got sealed?
MS. EDWARDS: When she submitted her proposal, she had
everything included. So she -- so what she would do with the stores,
and then she also added in with the watercraft --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, so the watercraft was part of
initial bid? It wasn't negotiated after? It wasn't something that was
sort of --
MS. EDWARDS: No, that was her proposal. That was her
proposal. Like I said, I was unaware that they had reached out
through BidSync. I just found that out today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. EDWARDS: So when she did that proposal, we looked at
everything that she added. She gave numbers for what she could do
for the stores, for sales, for fuel, parking. When I say "parking," if
the meters were down, she would take the fees for us, but we would
get $9, and she would get a dollar for her credit card transaction if
she had to take money for parking. If.
But that was all included. And so when we talked about it, you
know, I was like, well, I don't have a problem if you're renting. We
never gave them exclusive rights. We never told them that they
could store any of their equipment on site or anything.
She currently does this as a business or a side business, and if
that was an opportunity for the County to get more revenue, because
we get 8 percent off all gross sales, I was like, go for it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But what you found out today was
there was other people out there that --
June 27, 2023
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MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- whose bids you never saw
because they were sort of chased off with emails like what Glenn
read.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm still a little confused,
because -- I'm sorry [sic] with names, but --
MS. EDWARDS: Olema.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Sitting behind you.
Twice you made the statement that this was an afterthought, that
in a discussion, it was an afterthought. Was it an afterthought
putting together the advertisement, or was -- that's what -- I just want
to get clarity when that became an afterthought or when it was
discussion, a roundtable discussion.
MS. HERRERA: So the RFP was issued to request a
concessionaire to provide all the services as listed in the RFP, and in
the criteria, like I mentioned earlier, there was a line stating that if
there's any other rental opportunities, to go ahead and list that for
consideration. The question did come in through BidSync. It was
discussed with county staff. And at that time the response was, no,
the County's not looking for watercrafts, per se, for the kayak
services.
The RFPs closed. We received two. Now, let me just put it
into perspective. We did advertise for a total of 47 days only
because there was not a lot of competition. So when the RFP closed,
we did receive two submittals. And 5,693 vendors did get the
notification of the RFP, and 45 viewed the RFP, and we only
received two within those 47 days.
The proposal is received. The watercraft services are included.
Contracting negotiations, Ms. Olema attended those contract
negotiations. And then as part of those contract negotiations, they
June 27, 2023
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discussed including the watercraft portion of it. That's why you see
it in this contract as written because that was accepted by the County
at the time that they were negotiating.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But were you aware somebody
from your office had chased off other possible vendors, telling them
that they couldn't add watercraft into the contract when you were
holding a contract from BluWater that had all of those things in her
initial bid?
MS. HERRERA: I was made aware yesterday that a question
was posed in regards to that. At the time that the question did come
in, it was presented to Parks county staff, and the response was no at
that time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What do you mean "no"?
MS. EDWARDS: No, that they were not interested in
including those additional services at the time, that it was strictly a
concessionaire to run the marinas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But BluWater did include them in
their proposal.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, technically, if we would have
been doing this 100 percent correct and we were sticking to our guns
of "we are not including watercraft," when BluWater made their
proposal and had all the watercraft in there, we should have called
BluWater back and said, hey, you actually submitted a faulty
proposal. Instead, that proposal looked very attractive to us because
it had all these bells and whistles, and you and your staff didn't
realize there was other interested vendors that got chased off because
they were -- it would be one thing if Glenn sort of, and others, maybe
misunderstood the proposal, but, you know, when he read the email,
that was really the smoking gun.
We don't really know how many vendors got chased off who
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would have submitted something very similar to BluWater, and that's
why they take exception to it. And then not only were they chased
off, but we accepted BluWater's bid that was on steroids with all the
watercraft stuff, and we sealed a deal.
And, you know, I mean, having said that, as our contract expert,
I guess I would ask you, what's your recommendation? I mean, this
is -- this is the business that you're in to represent the County. And
this isn't to throw anybody under the bus, but I think we can all
appreciate this is a little bit sloppy, and we want to do this right and
we want to make sure that we are transparent.
So as our lead contract person that's standing at the podium right
now, what's your suggestion? Do you think we should just honor the
BluWater contract and tell the people that were chased off by Carlos'
email, hey, sorry we made a mistake. Too bad, so sad, but, you
know, we've got a great thing in front of us here, and we're going to
be open in minimum time and, you know, be serving citizens, or
should we go back to square zero?
MS. HERRERA: The procurement ordinance provides for the
County to reserve its right to negotiate any type of contractual
relationship.
The RFP, again, included language that the services were
limited but not specific to all of them, it is really at the discretion of
the Board. Like Commissioner Hall had mentioned earlier, there
really are two options. We either go back and request for the
removal of the language to clarify it completely or we go out and we
go through the RFP process again. Understanding and knowing that
you're probably going to -- may end up potentially with limited
competition based on the last posting and the time that we advertise
for 47 days, but in any event, that is really the Board's decision.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I ask another question real
quick?
June 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: There was two bids?
MS. HERRERA: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did the other bid have any
contingency to do watercraft rental?
MS. HERRERA: No.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, hearing everything that
we've heard here, my motion would be that we accept the BluWater
contract but we exclude watercraft, we get an answer from BluWater,
and then if that's something that seems like it has an appetite for it
here, then the watercraft could be a separate contractor. BluWater
could bid on the separate water contract, so could Glenn, so could a
bunch of other people. But the contract for the stores and the things
that BluWater would have, you know, we would find out from her.
I mean, that -- to me that just seems the lesser of all evils. I
think going back to square zero, even though this is a little bit sloppy,
you know, I mean, the people that are getting harmed here the most
are our citizens. And so, you know, we have to take that into
consideration.
So we might not have done this one perfectly, but we do have a
contractor that's prepared to get these stores reopened. The
watercraft, to me, are secondary. I mean, I can tell you all but one of
these is in my district, and nobody is complaining that they can't rent
a kayak. They're all complaining about the stores, the bait, the ice,
the water, everything. That's 100 percent of the complaints.
Because they know they can get a kayak. They know they can find
somebody or what have you. So I'm really concerned about the
stores.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think we ought to rebid it.
June 27, 2023
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I -- you know, with the -- with the already open bid that's set as
minimum parameters. And on the premises that you said, Glenn
could have partnered with a 7-Eleven owner, and, actually he chose
not to bid. There -- is he Zach's client? I can't remember the name
of -- I don't if Jack actually named his client, but -- and it really is
immaterial.
We have two vendors that are here right now that were told, no,
we only are looking for -- solicitation is only for the maintenance of
the -- or the management of the marina and nothing else. So they
just didn't even bid on it.
There may be other companies out there that could. And I think
we should -- at the sake of making people go to a different store to
get their ice for a minute, I think, in transparency, we should rebid it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why couldn't we accept BluWater
with the stores only, though, and take out the watercraft? Why
couldn't we do that? Because Glenn wouldn't have bid on that, so he
wouldn't have turned in a bid that would have said, I'll take the store
exclusive of the watercraft. So I think, you know, in my mind we're
sort of splitting the difference and we're being fair.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How many -- why? The
answer is, how many didn't bid because they thought it didn't include
the rental, and how many are qualified that could have but didn't bid?
Just -- that's my why.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think we're ready for a
motion, but I wanted to ask just a quick question. You had a second
bidder?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And was the second bidder's
terms comparable, or what was wrong with the second bidder?
MS. EDWARDS: They really didn't have a strong proposal.
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So we really are kind
of down to one?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Based -- and that one is based
upon the RFP and an email that went out that said we're only looking
for the management of the marinas.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think the prudent thing to
do because of timing and everything is to -- and I'll make this as a
motion just to get -- I hate to say "just to get the discussion going,"
but I'll make a motion to direct staff to go back to BluWater, indicate
that the inclusion of the kayak rentals was not a part of the bid
request and that is to be removed and see if they're still willing to go
forward with the contract. That would make it a conforming bid to
what we had asked for. If they say no, then we're going to have to
rebid, and that's going to be -- that will be a problem.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I would second that motion. It's
still not tied up in a nice pretty bow, but, you know, we also have to
look at the emergent condition that we have here, the misspeak by
our county person. So I would second that.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just one clarification on the
motion maker. Don't specify it to be kayak rentals. Watercraft
rentals, et al.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. It was -- I think,
watercraft rentals is what is in --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All watercraft rentals would be --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You said "kayak" in your
motion, I just wanted -- if we're going to do the -- it probably won't
hurt, because we have a limited pool of people that will be bidding,
but I think doing it that way --
June 27, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, you're absolutely right.
I misspoke.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Including watercraft would
be --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But then I would expect we could
get that answer quickly, you know, and we shouldn't have to wait
maybe even for the next commissioner meeting. You know, County
Manager could let us know what the answer was. You know, let's
not burn a lot of daylight here.
If BluWater totally falls out, then we are back to square zero, I
mean, if this motion passed. But I've got a motion. I've got
Commissioner McDaniel lit up again. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just as a -- and we can
go ahead -- if you want to, we can go ahead and vote. I just wanted
to ask if maybe we wanted to go ahead and at least give a consensus
on staff's next move. If BluWater accepts our proposal with their
contract minus the watercraft rentals, we're done. If not, then just go
ahead and give notice to staff to proceed with another bid and go
forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: Do you want to authorize the County
Manager to enter into that contract if BluWater agrees to that?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then -- and then staff to
rebid if -- with those advertised numbers as a minimum for the next
RFP.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If we had to do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If we have -- if BluWater
doesn't accept our terms.
June 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are we as clear as mud here? So
the motion is made by Commissioner Saunders, seconded by me, but
we haven't taken a vote yet, but just so you can have it clear here, is
that we go back to BluWater and say, we misspoke or what have you,
but, you know, the extras that you added in weren't part of the initial
bid that we let the world know, so we are excluding that. We want
to see if you will, you know, keep the contract that is basically the
store, the fuel, and all of that, and then get that answer. And if that
answer comes back, oh, no, all the frosting and all the extras are what
really locked in this contract, then guess what? Back to square zero.
And then let's do an expedient, you know, rebid and start from square
one.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we're re- -- if we end
up rebidding, do you want the paddle craft in as an option clearly
or --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Watercraft rentals, et al.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Watercraft rentals.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that's -- the only
exclusion in this contract is the exclusion of -- other than her licenses.
She's allowed still to rent and do as she does, but she's just out of the
fixed -- the fixed stores.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood for what we're talking about
with BluWater. But should we have to go and rebid this, do you
want the watercraft to be allowed -- clearly specified as allowed
under the rebid or no?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
MS. EDWARDS: And will it be the exclusive?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think it should be excluded.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think it should be included.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Included?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah, because that offers -- that
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gives Glenn the opportunity to bid for the store and the watercraft.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Because he was told that he
couldn't bid with the water.
MS. PATTERSON: Nonexclusive?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, wait. Before everybody
just sort of -- okay. So Commissioner Hall thinks it should be
included, okay.
Commissioner McDaniel, do you have a comment on it?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. I'm trying
to -- I'm trying to get some order here rather than what we -- you
know, controlled chaos where we're sitting here just debating each
other, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If it were me, I would
exclude the watercraft rentals from the fixed site locations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders,
what's your thought if it gets to that point, include or exclude?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have no idea.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
Commissioner Kowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I think we need a professional
retail person running these stores. This is what we're really looking
for. So I think if we have to rebid it, I think we should be clear
there's no watercraft in the new bid because that's going to give
people -- people that may bid on this just because they want to have
the image of having a brick-and-mortar store for their watercraft, and
they don't really care about selling the stuff. And we want to service
all of Collier County citizens with the right service that they deserve
in these stores. They can get watercraft, they can get their jet skis,
they can get those rentals through the people that have the permits
June 27, 2023
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that are professionals in doing that.
I think this whole thing -- we own this. We own this through
that email that we heard today, and we have to try to fix it up here the
best we can just to be transparent.
So I think -- I think the best way it goes -- this is -- what we're
looking for is a vendor to run our stores. And if BluWater wants to
be that person, they have that contract in hand already without the
watercraft. If that's not what their intentions were, their
motive -- because I come from a business where there's, like, motive.
You look for motive, why people do things. If that's not their motive
and they walk away, then maybe we will find a better 7-Eleven
runner, person, operator, or whatever you want to call them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And here's the thing about
BluWater. If they keep the stores, if she agrees to that, she can do
the same thing Glenn's doing and rent craft or whatever, but, you
know, she owns the stores but can still do things outside of the stores.
But I agree with Commissioner Kowal; this whole thing was
about having stores that sold everything from Twinkies to shrimp to
bait to ice, and that's the big thing. All the other stuff, we already
have plenty of vendors that do that. And when Caxambas opens,
there's going to be a barrage of businesses, or maybe not -- depending
on what the City of Marco decides -- but at some of our other places.
That's never been sort of the missing piece. It's replacing the store
owner.
So I think what we tell BluWater is we're only accepting the
store part, all watercraft excluded. It doesn't mean she can't do
watercraft with a separate permit, like Glenn does on a regular basis,
and everybody else. But the brick-and-mortar is the
brick-and-mortar. And then if she says, oh, it's all or nothing, then
we've got to go out for bids. And I think, actually, the watercraft
should be excluded. I think it's -- so I don't know -- I don't know
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what the count was up here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 4-1.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, actually, I think that's step
two. I don't know that has to be decided right now. I think we
should take this in smaller chunks and go back to BluWater and see if
she wants to keep the store contract.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir. Will do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm going to withdraw my
motion, because I've forgotten what it was, and turn to Commissioner
Kowal and ask him to make the motion, because what he said was
spot on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Don't do the fingers, though.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm half Italian.
Yeah, I think -- this is what we're looking for. We're looking
for a vendor, and I think that the citizens of Collier County and the
people that use our parks deserve that. It needs to go to her and say,
listen, this is where we're at. It's your bid to have if you want it, run
the stores, run the best -- it may be the best person in the world to run
the store.
So the motion is we just give her the offer to -- right of refusal,
remove the watercraft, and then when we have to re-put it out, if she
doesn't accept that, it's only for a vendor to run the retail portions and
fuel sales of these stores that we own.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I second it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: With a minimum -- if we do
rebid it, it has to be the minimum --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, yeah, and it has to -- and we
have to put it out there. This is what we're looking for, a minimum
in the contractual agreements for percentages to and from the vendor
to the County, those numbers included.
June 27, 2023
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MR. KLATZKOW: And if the vendor agrees to omit it, then
the County Attorney's authorized to sign the agreement?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes. And if not, let us know
immediately that BluWater has not accepted the deal and we're, you
know, going to go back out.
And, you know, it is a lucrative contract. It's not just the store
selling Twinkies. It's fuel, it's -- you know, yeah, the parking comes
to us, but it's a big operation. I mean, the watercraft I don't think is
her cash cow. It's the stores, I would think, but I could be wrong.
But -- okay. So I have a motion and a second that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't repeat it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just don't repeat it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. EDWARDS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Bring me the head of Carlos.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't repeat it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm Italian, too.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15,
staff and commission general communications.
June 27, 2023
Page 230
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: 15A is public comments on general topics
not on the current or future agenda by individuals not already heard
during previous public comment in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
Item #15B1
4TH OF JULY FIREWORKS UPDATE - COUNTY LOCATION IS
PARADISE COAST SPORTS COMPLEX WITH FREE PARKING,
GATES OPEN AT 11AM. THERE WILL BE 8 FOOD TRUCKS &
CONCESSIONS, FAMILY ACTIVITIES BEGIN AT 3:00 PM.
THE MOVIE WILL BE SANDLOT BEGINNING AT 6:30 PM.
LIVE BAND BEGINS AT 7:00 PM AND THE FIREWORKS
STARTING AT 9 PM ALSO, SOUTH MARCO BEACH
FIREWORKS STARTING AT 9 PM WITH FREE PARKING AT
TIGER TAIL BEACH STARTING AT 6 PM
MS. PATTERSON: All right. That brings us to 15B, staff
project updates. First we have an update on the 4th of July
fireworks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. HANRAHAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. James
Hanrahan, regional manager of Parks and Recreation, alongside with
Paul Beirnes and Marissa Baker.
June 27, 2023
Page 231
We wanted to just give you an update on the 4th of July. In
honor of the Centennial celebration, we wanted to partner with the
City of Naples and put on a wonderful event both for the City and the
County. I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but the city decided to
focus on the parade because the pier is still down as well as a lot of
the beach access for the City of Naples.
So this provided us a wonderful opportunity to partner with
Paradise Coast Sports Complex, Sports Facilities, Tourism, and Parks
and Recreation.
So for the 4th of July, on the screen there you'll see at the
Paradise Coast Sports Complex where the fireworks will take off.
People will be able to view it from the stadium seating, the great
lawn, and the Cove.
The facility will open -- the Cove will open at 11:00 a.m. with
family activities beginning at 3:00 p.m., which includes face painting,
RC -- you know, the RC motor vehicles that you can run through the
courses, sorry, as well as face painting, live art. At 6:30 we'll have a
movie on the JumboTron, as well as a live band beginning at
7:00 p.m.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's the movie, just so we know
that it's nothing controversial that we're going to hear? What is it?
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely. It's Sandlot.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Perfect.
MR. HANRAHAN: There were -- we did a lot of research to
make sure that it was something very appropriate for the entire
family.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wanted to know.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Born on the 4th of July.
MR. HANRAHAN: No, and definitely not Independence Day.
That one was mentioned as well.
Like I said, with the fireworks beginning at 9:00 p.m. I do want
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to thank Zambelli, who we have back after -- we haven't had them for
the last two years. They have been phenomenal in working with us
to make sure this is a success.
They -- like I said, after the hiatus of two years, they know
Collier County. They love coming to Collier County, so they're
really excited to work with us for the fireworks.
The Cove will be open, as I mentioned, from 11:00 a.m. We
will have at least eight food trucks. Also within the stadium, on the
back side of the stadium, the concession areas will be open as well
with satellite options for beverages and food.
I'm going to pass it over to Paul to talk about the marketing
program.
MR. BEIRNES: Good afternoon. For the record, Paul
Beirnes, division director of Tourism.
Just really briefly, we're going to get word out and drive people
to the sports complex. We've already kicked off some paid social
Facebook posts and paid search.
Actually, starting tomorrow on WAVV FM, WINK FM, Latino
97.7, and Gator Country, will be 30-second live reads that will run
right through until July 4th, actually. Naples Daily News, starting
tomorrow, there will be a ribbon along the bottom of the front page as
well as a skyscraper that every day will have a slightly different
message.
Definitely carpooling is going to be really encouraged. So as
we get closer to it, we'll be amping that up.
And then we have a digital mobile truck which is kind of a box
truck with large panel LED screens. Not only will -- in the couple
days prior will we have that in the community, it will actually be part
of the Naples 4th of July parade. So it will be an obvious one telling
everybody to join us later on that day.
So that's what it looks like there on the right, and on the
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left-hand side in the color where it says "beach" is the panel. We'll
have that running all the way through until Monday of next week.
And, actually, we've got this event on calendars. In fact, at 3:00
and 6:00 on WINK News, they're running a segment that I was
interviewed yesterday. We've got pages on our website, emails
going out, so a good amount of communication. I think James had
some wrap-up as well.
MR. HANRAHAN: Absolutely. I just wanted to also mention
that the City of Marco Island would have their fireworks as well.
Parks and Recreation will have staff, both the park rangers and
maintenance, to attend to the Tigertail Beach area for additional
parking, and that will be free to the community.
And, lastly, we hope to see you all there at Paradise Coast Sports
Complex to honor America and the 4th of July. Thank you all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The only thing I was going to
add -- because I've seen a lot of social media things, but on a lot of it,
it doesn't clarify free parking at the sports complex. And the
majority of events we've had at the sports complex, be it lacrosse, the
football, and all these other things, people are used to the concerts,
parking was not free.
So I just -- I just -- you know, would just add that, you know,
because some people equate the sports complex with not-free
parking, but for this event, you know, it being free.
And then to the county -- and I talked with Mr. Rodriguez about
this -- on July 5th, none of us want to be getting calls saying garbage
cans are all overflowing all over the beach, Tigertail Beach's garbage
cans were overflowing, the sports complex is trashed, and all of that.
So let's make sure that, you know, we start strongly and finish
strong. And we have had some disjointed events before where they
were amazing, wonderful events except at 7:00 the next morning
when you woke up. Then all of our phones were ringing off the
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hook that, you know, the places were trashed and people left behind a
lot of garbage and everything. I mean, let's have this be successful
from start to finish.
But the free parking, got to really make sure you hammer that
home because there's a lot of people that still aren't familiar with the
sports complex.
What I think the genius of this whole thing is, is we're going to
introduce the sports complex to a lot of people that have never been
there that are going to find it, go to the fireworks, everything's free,
and then they're going to realize that this is a great local event.
And, you know, I'll just end it by saying -- and then
Commissioner McDaniel's lit up here -- awesome job pivoting. And,
you know, my hat's off, really, to the County. Yeah, we always had
something at Sugden Park, but not to this magnitude. And, you
know, granted, the City's under some challenges now, but, you know,
we could have taken the easy way out and just said, you know, we're
going to do what we always do, yet I saw everybody really leaning
forward, and now, you know, you see the results here.
So, you know, I think that you all really are to be commended.
But, you know, let's make sure it is an event that we're all proud of
and, you know, we finish as strong as we start.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You made a comment. Is
parking ever charged for at Paradise Coast?
MS. BAKER: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, Marissa Baker, sports complex manager for Collier County.
They have -- the operator has charged for parking in the past.
They don't do it at every event because every event is negotiated on a
situation-by-situation basis, but I do understand how that perception
could be there because sometimes it is and sometimes it is not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I would like to know
June 27, 2023
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an accounting of that, how the revenue stream goes, because we're
paying for all of the maintenance and the upkeep and so on and so
forth, and I'd like to know -- I'd like to see -- I didn't realize ever that
there was parking fees charged at our public park. So I'd like to see
that sooner than later.
MS. BAKER: Will do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. HANRAHAN: Chair, to your point, the maintenance team
for Parks and Recreation, they've been awesome. We're mobilizing
from all of our regions, and they will stay until the job is done that
night. It actually says in the email, until, until clean. So I did want
to let you know that we have thought about that.
And one other thing you mentioned, I do want to thank -- as
you're right, we pivoted. It's Waste Management, Emergency
Management, Parks and Recreation, fire, sheriff, as well as EMS all
coming together. We actually have a meeting this Thursday to make
sure that we're ready. So it has been a wonderful effort between all
of the divisions, all of the departments for the County.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know there will be plenty of
garbage cans and whatnot at the sports complex, because we're set up
that way, and you might need some additional ones if we're going to
have a bigger crowd there. But are we beefing up garbage cans at
Tigertail and at key places along Marco, like South Beach, which
falls under the County, and other places where we might -- where
we're definitely going to get a bigger crowd?
Because you can see the fireworks on Marco from anywhere,
and we have some county locations that will get a larger
concentration of people which also means that's where they're going
to dump their, you know, drink bottles, their whatever, you know,
their food things, and those cans fill up quick on the 4th of July.
So are we adding extra garbage cans at South Beach, Tigertail,
June 27, 2023
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and some of the other key areas that are owned by the County?
Because I actually sent a note to the City, you know, and reminded
them of the same thing, because they have some ownership of some
pails. Have we done -- we're doing that?
MR. HANRAHAN: I will work with Olema and Rick Garby,
superintendent of maintenance, to make sure -- to ensure your
request.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Please make sure of that,
because we've not had that happen on a couple occasions and we got
bit, but -- what have you got, Tanya?
MS. WILLIAMS: For the record, Tanya Williams, Public
Services department head.
To answer your question specifically, Commissioner LoCastro,
Rick Garby and his maintenance team have staffed up the holiday
weekend, Tigertail included, to include dedicated staff for those
beach access areas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. WILLIAMS: And so the garbage cans will be
continuously emptied. Trash will be picked up --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. WILLIAMS: -- from sunup to sundown.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thanks.
I don't see anybody lit up. Thank you for the update.
Next?
Item #15B2
COMMERCIAL VENDOR PERMITS - THE 2024 COMMERCIAL
LAUNCH PERMIT POLICY HAS BEEN UPDATED AND
READY TO GO, COMMERCIAL PERMITS ARE NON-
TRANSFERABLE; AND ISSUED FOR ONE YEAR ONLY.
June 27, 2023
Page 237
FURTHER RESEARCH AND DISCUSSION ON POLICY WILL
BE NEEDED FOR A FUTURE MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, Item 15B2 is an update
on commercial vendor permits.
Mr. Mike Ossorio is on his way up.
MR. OSSORIO: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, Mike Ossorio, Beach and Water.
Today we're going to talk about permits. As to the parking, we
continue to enforce and evaluate parking, and most notably, we
actually look for the trailer parking. So we have full-time -- we have
full-time code enforcement park rangers out there to educate/promote
compliance as relates to trailer parking.
We have received some complaints on commercial trailer
parking, notably over the holiday weekend. We continue to engage
our stakeholders and our notable Chokoloskee as relates to limited
vendor parking as well.
As of today, 2023 permits sold is 61,500. Each permit, the first
permit's 250, the second one is 350, and the fourth and third is 450.
And you can see it breaks down to a total number of permits of 212.
Upcoming 2024 launch permits, this year, actually last month,
we actually redid the whole application for the commercial launch
permits, and it's been updated to include checklists for upcoming
2024 launch permits.
2024 launch permits, policy has been updated and ready for
implement for our 2024.
Sixty-four out of the 124 commercial launch companies have
been grandfather status for the 2024. If you remember back in
November of 2021, there was a perpetuity requirement as if anyone
had a license or a permit in 2021, they would be grandfathered in
going forward as long as they kept their business open and up to date.
June 27, 2023
Page 238
As of right now, we have 64 of those companies that have
continued their business since 2021. So there are 60 new businesses.
Out of the 64 grandfathered companies, they have a total of 90
outstanding permits. So we actually started with 180 in 2021, and
then that went down to 90. So there are 90 grandfathered or
perpetuity permits out there that have continued since 2021 that
are -- that have the license or will get their license for next 2024
season. That leaves 212 permits in total.
There's 122 permits out there that are on a first come, first
served basis. So in terms of essence is that for the upcoming season,
we have 212 permits, 90 that are guaranteed till February, and that
leaves 122 permits out there that could be issued for first come, first
served basis for next year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But that's assuming that 212 is a
good number. It's not an excessive number? You know, we've had
this conversation before where we were like, is it 180? Is it 190?
Well, let's just keep selling them until, you know, we think that the
seams are busting.
So is 212 -- it's the number we have now, and that's the number
we're going to -- we're going to max out on in 2024, at least that's
your proposal. You don't -- you think that's a manageable number?
MR. OSSORIO: No actually, if you look at the screen, you can
see the public commercial parking spaces. If you're talking about
permits, you're talk about one permit, one trailer, one parking space.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. OSSORIO: And so if you actually take a look at the boat
trailer, Section 384, if you actually carried over 212, you're looking at
55 percent. If you had all the boat permits launched out there, they
would take 55 percent of the parking itself.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Parking.
MR. OSSORIO: So I get why we had to do 180, because we
June 27, 2023
Page 239
had to accommodate the people that already had one in 2021, but
from my own sense of where we need to be, it's between 90 and 212.
So 90 is something we should be -- guarantee the perpetuity people
that had one in 2021, but if you're -- if you are looking at my -- for
going forward, I would like to reduce that number of 55 percent
down to something manageable of 20, 25 percent, between 90 to 180.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So why aren't we doing that, then,
for 2024? Why are we proposing 212? Is that what you're
proposing?
MR. OSSORIO: No. My thought is to only bring you updated
status. Right now we're at 212. It's really discretion. Consider this
as a resolution. You can -- you can dictate how many permits --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When will we do that? When will
we decide what 2024, the magic number for permits is going to be?
It's not right now. You're just giving us an update on how the
numbers look right now. But are you going to be coming -- or
somebody's going to be coming to this committee like they did last
year and give us a proposal on how many permits? Because you're
prepared to sell permits in December. So between now and
December, we want to decide how many we want to sell, and I
thought the number was going to be less than 212 because we didn't
think we could fully support 212 is some of the conversations I recall
in here previously.
MR. OSSORIO: My recollection is that in 2021, in November,
you came up with 180, and then you came back -- the Parks
department came back in February and said, hey, we need 212. So I
don't know how you amend the fee resolution. I think in terms of
when you amend the resolution to include that particular number, that
would be the day that we actually do it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Because we understand the
90, the grandfathered 90, but, you know, the higher number from 90
June 27, 2023
Page 240
to what? You know, that delta in the middle, I thought 212 was a
little bit too high on the generous side from previous conversations
that we had, you know.
MR. OSSORIO: You're absolutely right, Commissioner. And
you can actually take a look at the -- the chart in front of you, there's
384 but, as of today, Caxambas, 54 is closed.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. OSSORIO: So that's done. And then if you look at the
boat ramp for 951, there's rumors or there's speculation that that
might be closing, too, as well to go ahead and work on that boat ramp
as well. So that's 72.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, because that's the thought I
had in the back of my head is that if we sold the maximum number
starting in December, or we started to sell the maximum number,
we've got to remember that we've got some serious damage in some
marinas that are going to be closed for extended periods of time. So
if all those permits are out there but two major marinas are closed,
maybe indefinitely, because we have major seawall damage and
whatnot, the people with those permits are going want to go
elsewhere, and we are going to -- you know, we're going to have
created a serious problem.
MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. So at the end of the day, I would think
that, for me as the Beach and Water who's going to be overseeing this
with our park rangers, that we should go by percentage. Percentage
equals parking spaces, and I would think 55 is way too
many -- 55 percent. So if you're looking at a percentage as 20,
30 percent, then that would come up with a number where you need
to be.
But I think Tanya has a question about the fee resolution as well.
MS. WILLIAMS: For the record, Tanya Williams, Public
Services department head.
June 27, 2023
Page 241
Chairman, to answer your original question, park staff are
currently revising our fee -- Parks fee policy, and this will be
something that we'll bring back to you late September, first of
October.
Staff are also -- now that we have Mike Ossorio on board with
us, Parks administration is also looking at what may be that golden
number. 212 is a large number. We do have 90 that are
grandfathered in that will carry over.
So we're going to be bringing back some recommendations as
part of our fee policy to you where we would like to possibly identify
the types of commercial activities at specific launch sites. And we'll
bring back some recommendations and some options for you to
provide us direction.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I would just say that for
2024, we might want to consider an artificially lower number than
normal because we're going to have some significant marinas closed.
MS. WILLIAMS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So although the number might
seem excessively low to outsiders, it might just be for 2024
because -- you know, so just work that into -- you know, the
equation.
The other thing I'll -- and then I'll go to Commissioner
McDaniel, and then we have public comment. We did toss around
the idea here of having you-all flesh out a totally different permitting
process, which was permitting by specific park and not just these
generic ones where people can go willy-nilly wherever they want.
And we had said a year ago that -- a year ago that wasn't the time to
do it because we had so much on the plate, and we waited too long to
sort of kick that around.
You know, as we approach 2024, make that part of your
discussion. And I know that that is a much more complicated
June 27, 2023
Page 242
process, but we might be at the point now where our marinas are all
busting at the seams, that these generic permits that allow you to just
go wherever you want doesn't really give us good oversight on who's
going where.
And then, you know, we sell 212, and then realize -- and I'm
going to just make up a number just for -- just for, you know, the
sake of argument -- then we realize 80 percent of those 212 are all
going to Caxambas or they're all going to Goodland. Then we're
like, oh, my God, that's not what we thought was going to -- and we
got in a little bit of that -- of a problem over the last couple of years
where an excessive number of these -- of these permits that the
number kept increasing were really concentrated at one or two
locations and so then that's where we were brainstorming here and
saying, why don't we figure out what the magic number is for
Goodland, the magic number for Caxambas? And that's a big ask.
That's somebody having to do a deep dive and run the algorithm and
figure what that is. But I mean, we're sitting here in June, and we're
about to sell permits in December. Let's -- you know, I would just
highly, I mean, suggest that we work all the options into the equation.
How many public comments do we have, Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: I have one registered comment that wants to
speak on this item, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's go to the public
comment, and then I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel, although, I'm
sorry --
MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. I just had one -- right now, actually,
it's under -- the fee resolution calls for limitations, and your director
of Parks has that authority, and we actually were looking -- even
though if we don't come back, there's going to be some restrictions of
different locations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
June 27, 2023
Page 243
MR. OSSORIO: Even though that -- you might not think the
authority does lie with the Parks department, with the director, so
limitations in there under the fee resolution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I think that's smart, and it's
not because we're trying to restrict their access, but it's so that we
know who's going where. And we might sit here and go, wow, you
know, we haven't sold very many permits for Port of the Islands, so
it's like, hey, we could sell 30 more. You know, that was the
whole -- so what's the public comment? And then we'll go to
Commissioner McDaniel.
MR. MILLER: Stacy, I hope I'm saying this right, Mullendore.
MR. MULLENDORE: That's right. That's pretty good.
Hi, Commissioners. Thanks for having me. My name is Stacy
Mullendore. I am the president of Bimini Twist Charters of Collier
County, Inc. I am a fishing guide of 32 years in this county, and I'm
a Naples native.
I am here because of the park permit situation. My wife and I
are looking to move on with the second chapter of our lives. Part of
that is looking at retirement, which has led us to putting our business
up for sale. It consists of me being a fishing guide, which I'm going
to continue to do on a part-time basis, but it also has an ecotour tour
dolphin, shelling, sightseeing boat as well that does have a permit to
pick up from the county ramp and has since 2019.
So in the process of trying to sell our business, the big hangup so
far for us has been, to the several people that have inquired about it,
is the pickup permit. Does it come with the boat, and is it
transferable?
My wife has spoken to Commissioner Hall's office a couple of
times on this, and so far he's been able to tell us that, yeah, it's going
to be transferable to the end of the year, but after that I can't
guarantee anything.
June 27, 2023
Page 244
We have a serious buyer, and what I have with me here is our
petition to buy our business, and in that, in the conditions, the buyer
says that, you know, he's going to obviously obtain and assure all
applicable titles, agreements, permits, and licenses essential to the
operation of the business including, but not limited to, the Collier
County commercial launch permit are both transferable and
renewable to the buyer upon the purchase of my business.
So if this permit is not transferable and renewable, it basically
makes my business worth zero. So that would mean the only thing I
could sell would be my boat.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, that's not true because you
could sell him the business under the condition that he apply for a
permit and he be lucky enough to get one, and then the condition
would be, when he secured a permit, then he could buy your
business.
But my understanding, because this is big business in my
district, is that the permits have never been transferable. We might
have had plenty of people who were doing it, but that's why we have
all new faces here, because some of those previous people were
forced into retirement who weren't running a very tight operation for
the County. I'm just being -- being, you know, transparent.
Your concern has merit, but the, you know, County's position
has been transferring permits wasn't something that was ever
allowed, even though it was done, but we've tightened it up. But
you're -- the person buying your business could buy the business, and
it's contingent upon them being one of the people that get one of the
remaining 122 permits. And then if they can't, I mean -- I mean, I'll
defer to Mr. Ossorio.
I mean, this is something that we have debated. You know,
we've had these -- you know, it's not a large number of people. So
you sit here and say, well, make an exception. But I think we've
June 27, 2023
Page 245
only allowed transfer if it was to a family member. So if your son
wanted to buy the business, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Ossorio, I
think that's what the County has allowed. It predates me, so this isn't
something that we invented here, but...
MR. OSSORIO: I can -- back in 2021, it was actually
discussed. One of the concerns was if we were going to have a
perpetuity of a permit being years to come in the future, it had to be
the same company. And so father and son, same FIN number, yes.
They couldn't get any more, but it shouldn't be commercialized, or it
shouldn't be monetized, these permits, because the permits are only
good for one year, and, for the majority, it's first come, first serve.
That's my thought. It's almost like a beach permit sticker is only
good for one year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So if he sells his business to a
stranger and they're still -- there's still months left on the permit, that
stranger can pick up that permit but then has to start from scratch, or
he can't transfer it to a stranger.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, I would say if he bought the business,
he's going to get a whole new FIN number. I assume that that permit
would be long and forgotten, be dead.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. OSSORIO: And you would have to go ahead and get in
line December 1.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. OSSORIO: You could be the first one in line knocking on
somebody's door to try to get this application to get that permit in,
because right now you're at 122 today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
Okay. Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I appreciate -- I appreciate
what you had to say. One of the comments that I was going to make
June 27, 2023
Page 246
was while we're doing an analysis on this magic number of how
many permits we're going to allow and not allow, give consideration
to adjusting the permit parameters. I like the being specific with the
ramp that the commercial operators are going to be using, but also
give some parameters on the type of licensure.
Your business is not worthless. You just have to spend more
money if you come to a commercial marina and pay the rent for your
boat and that operator that you're doing. So for you to allege that
your business is worthless isn't absolutely correct.
Now, I have compassion for what it is that you're, in fact,
saying, but our boat ramps are for the general public, not for private
business operators to utilize and take away from our public, our
private -- or our public use.
So one of my thoughts was we could issue license permits for
commercial operators, but they have to utilize offsite facilities to park
their customers and park their boats. They can come and launch
their boat, pick up their customers, but the customers have to be
shuttled in. They're not taking up space for our general public that
are our -- and I'm talking to you because you're at the podium. I
really wanted our staff to hear this. And I'm certainly not going to
debate with you the value of your business one way or the other.
We have -- so if you -- if you don't mind, I'd like to talk to my
staff.
MR. MULLENDORE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You happen to be standing at
the podium.
MR. OSSORIO: Yes, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did he finish his time to
speak? Are you done?
MR. MULLENDORE: I had a couple other comments.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Please continue. I got drawn
June 27, 2023
Page 247
into a debate with you, and I don't want to do that.
MR. MULLENDORE: So I run my guide business out of a
marina on Goodland, Calusa Island Marina. They have a
noncompete signed with Marco Island Watersports. Nobody else in
the shelling, dolphin parasailing business can do business out of that
marina; however, I'm a full-time fishing guide in addition to having
the tour boat.
So I can guide out of there, because Marco Island Watersports
doesn't offer fishing; however, my marina won't let me conduct my
tour boat business out of there because of their noncompete.
So that led me to get my permit in 2019 to start up the eco
business, and it's been running out of the ramp ever since just for that
reason.
I would prefer to be in a private marina, but the marinas have
pretty much waged war on all small business because all the big
marinas are now owned by big corporations. So they're trying to
thin the herd on people doing business out of their properties.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MULLENDORE: So we're kind of -- you know, kind of
forced to do business out of the ramp. I wouldn't prefer to do that,
but, I mean, it's been working for us since 2019.
I know a couple years ago, you-all cracked down on limiting
new permits to people, which didn't apply to us because we had
already had ours. We kind of were grandfathered in. And then I
was under the impression that, you know -- and he had just
mentioned 60 some or 90 people were grandfathered in if you were in
prior to 2021, which we were. But I was also under the impression
that the sticker would go with the boat. So that way it wouldn't
be -- I'll backtrack a little bit.
I had one buyer come to me and say, listen, I'm interested in
your business; however, the sticker, I don't want to be limited to six
June 27, 2023
Page 248
passengers on my boat because I'm limited to how much I can charge.
So if I can get your boat and take your boat to a 20-passenger or
30-passenger boat down the road and just transfer the sticker onto
that, that would really pique my interest into buying your business.
Well, I told him that I don't think that's a possibility knowing the
situation at the county ramps and the parking.
So he walked. Well, this gentleman -- and I operate it. It's a
six-pack tour boat business. Almost 100 percent of the people show
up in one car for the parking.
So, anyhow, I have somebody else interested in it now. I was
under the impression that the sticker would stay with the boat,
especially if the boat stayed in the corporate name, and he would just
continue to run it as Bimini Twist Charters, just a new president. So
that's --
MR. OSSORIO: Well, the permit actually goes with the
company. But if he's saying that -- if it's a new president, it's the
same FIN number, well, then, perpetuity will afford for this
gentleman. But most likely it's going to be a change in name or very
similar with a dot or a period, and it's going to be a totally different
company. So the perpetuity wouldn't fall for that new business
owner.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I did, like, an analogy, and
it's a bad analogy, but when we had this conversation about a year
ago, it was -- you know, it's like selling your car, but the person
doesn't get your driver's license, you know. And then you change
the plates on the car immediately.
So the county permit that you currently own, our position had
been that it can't be used as leverage to make your business more
attractive to a buyer, that the permit is something that went
specifically to you. But on the flip side, I stand by what I said
before. You could make an agreement with somebody who's
June 27, 2023
Page 249
interested in your business, but it's contingent upon them getting in
line quickly and getting their own new permit for the new business
that's using your old boat. But, you know, I mean, I think we were
pretty firm on that.
So, you know -- so to answer your question, you know,
that's -- unless, you know, our staff has a different recommendation
or the commissioners here think that that's a bad precedent, but I
know that that's been the County's position.
Commissioner McDaniel, did you have something? And then
I've got Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not for him. I want to speak
with our staff.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall, your
question is for?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, Stacy, I just was -- I
just -- my understanding of you selling your business was to sell your
business, exactly your business.
MR. MULLENDORE: It is.
COMMISSIONER HALL: ABC 123 company, and you just
are assigning different directors or a different president, which that
would be the same. To me, your permit would follow in perpetuity
with that. If your buyer ever changed anything, then you're going to
be subject to what Mr. Ossorio is saying.
MR. KLATZKOW: These permits do not last in perpetuity, all
right. To say that it's all right to give a vested rights to a permit, now
the Board could do that if you want to establish that, but that's not the
way this works. There's no vested right to a permit. We issue them
annually. You could stop issuing them at any time. You can decide
only residents, no commercial. You could put them out to bid if you
want. The Board has a great deal of leeway, but to say that they're in
perpetuity, once you get one, you always get one, that's not the
June 27, 2023
Page 250
current policy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, see, his advantage is he has
one of the 90 grandfathered ones.
MR. KLATZKOW: You say "grandfathered," but there's no
ordinance that grandfathers this, okay. This is just a current policy
of the Board --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Policy.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- that could change at any time. And
once we start making promises to people that you can sell your
business with this in perpetuity, with the permit, we're starting to get
into a vested rights on the permit. And we do that, but I think you're
going to need an executive summary and really hammer this one out,
if that's what you want to do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I remember part of the
discussion was we have these 90 grandfathered ones. As those
business owners start to retire -- and some of them don't sell their
business; we had several that decided to just, you know, stop their
business altogether -- it would help us sort of lean out that 90
number, because we wanted that number to be a little bit smaller. I
mean, 90 people that automatically get a permit because they're
grandfathered in, I mean, it shouldn't be in perpetuity.
I would hope a few years from now that 90 number would be
less because somebody would retire. They didn't sell the business;
they sold the boat to somebody in Virginia. Boom, the business
evaporated, so now we're down to down 82 and then 77 and 54 and, I
mean, I think that was what we had talked about in here is a year
ago --
MR. OSSORIO: That's exactly what happened. You started
with over 180 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
MR. OSSORIO: -- 2021, or February of 2022. You're down
June 27, 2023
Page 251
to 90.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
MR. OSSORIO: So your analogy is actually correct. The
permit wasn't in perpetuity. They were just guaranteed the first ones
in line to be able to continue the company.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But if he sells his business and the
person who buys it keeps the same name as the boat, name same as
the charter and everything, they still don't get his -- one of -- they
don't get that grandfathered permit, because it goes to that gentleman
right there. It's specific to the individual, correct, or am I wrong?
MR. OSSORIO: It goes to the company. It goes to the
company. So if the company doesn't switch corporations as an FIN
number, it's still the company with a different president, sure. He
can get in line, and he'll be the first one that -- there will be 90. I
don't want to say perpetuity, but it's the grandfathered-in status. Is it
the 90 that come for -- this year, 2024, upcoming permit launch, what
are we doing in January or December? We're looking at 90.
Now, out of that 90, if they don't come in February, we're going
to go and issue those 90, or excess, whatever those number -- it might
be down to 80 or 10, whatever it is, we're going to give those to
people that are on the waiting list. So there's 24 companies, as it sits
today, of waiting to go ahead for the upcoming 2024 season.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We have some people that have the
permits and they're not in a company name. They're in their own
personal name, and so when they wind up, you know, that's not a
transferable permit.
So there's a loophole here where if everything's in the name of,
you know, Sunrise Fishing Charters, and he's going to sell that to a
guy and it's just going to have a new president, then, you know, to
me, what I'm hearing is the loophole is he actually can take that
grandfathered permit and give it to Joe Bag of Doughnuts, who's the
June 27, 2023
Page 252
new president of Sunrise Fishing Charters.
MR. OSSORIO: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But we've had -- we have quite a
few people that that's not how their permits are set up. It's
specifically by name. And, you know, me hearing that, I don't like
that there's a loophole because, I mean, some of the other people feel
like they were penalized because their permit was in their name and
not in the company. And they weren't the president. They were the
owner, and then that made the permit untransferable.
And a lot of those people came and complained that they
couldn't transfer their permits. But he might be able to, due to a
technicality, because he put everything in a company name, and all's
he's doing --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Smart.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- is selling -- yeah, like you say,
maybe that's not stupid, and I'm not here judging, but I'm just saying
that's where some people said, the County should have a smarter
process that doesn't allow those kind of loopholes.
MR. OSSORIO: I would say that a sole proprietorship is old
business. A lot of -- I don't know any companies that typically do
sole proprietorship. They usually have an LLC or corporation, tax
reasons, you saw that with someone in licensing years ago. I mean,
there's only a few handful of licensed contractors out there that do
business under their name, under a sole proprietorship.
But, for the most part, I would venture to say 99.9 percent of
these permits that you see today, the 212, they're all somewhat -- they
might say they're Mike Ossorio, but they're Mike Ossorio,
Incorporated --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So this gentleman doesn't have a
problem then. He can sell the company and transfer the permit to
the new company president. I mean, I've got Olema back there
June 27, 2023
Page 253
shaking her head going no, no, no.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, it depends how you sell the company.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So let's -- I want him to leave here
with an answer. Can he sell his company and hand the permit to the
new president of his boat?
MR. OSSORIO: No, no.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why not?
MR. OSSORIO: Because it's a new company. Now, if --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, the guy's going to keep the
same name, and he's just a new president.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, then it's still -- then it's not a new
company. New company being new FIN number. In other words,
he is leaving the company. I could be Mike Ossorio's Construction
today and Mike Ossorio's Construction tomorrow with a whole
different FIN number. If I'm just switching corporations, am I
switching --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The person that buys this
company, do they get a new FIN, or they can absorb his?
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, it has to be the same number.
MR. OSSORIO: If you are just adding a vice president or a
treasury, no, that's just -- that is a -- or he can even name change, but
the real key is the FIN number. If he's selling his business, and the
new business/company comes in, it very well might -- he's buying the
name. He'll go and open up on the Sunbiz under a difference
corporation name, and that is a whole new company. So, no, that
would be prohibited, and for very good reason.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The guy comes in, and he just
becomes -- you know, before the business is sold, he takes on a
partner, makes him the vice president, then he and wife retire. The
new vice president becomes the president. FIN number's the same,
company's the same.
June 27, 2023
Page 254
Now the new owner of this boat with, what, a brand-new
company isn't waiting in line for anything. He's one of the 90
grandfathered people because he bought a company from somebody
that had one of the 90 grandfathered permits. I mean, I think that's a
foul but, it's, you know -- and it's not his -- I'm not saying he's
breaking any rules or anything, but that's where I think our process is
weak, because I have -- I hear from people who maybe weren't that
astute to sort of put it in an LLC or whatever, and they get boxed out,
and, you know, when they -- when they sell their boat, that new
person is back to square zero, and they feel like it's a technicality and
that it's a technicality that's a weakness in our -- on our permitting
selling process.
And because of -- because he is able to maybe transfer the
permit, it's our county permit that makes his company very valuable
to sell because he can say, buy my company, and you don't have to
wait in line for the 122 permits. You're grandfathered, you know.
It's like -- you know, you can jump in the boat, and it's like you're me.
MR. KLATZKOW: There's no right to the permit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's that?
MR. KLATZKOW: There's no right to the permit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He's saying there is if these --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. KLATZKOW: There's no right to the permit. I mean, we
issue them for one year, and that's it, all right. They're
nontransferable. Look, this is a county park. I mean, somehow
we've evolved this and to allow commercial operations in it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The 90 grandfathered people get it
for a year, but they get it automatically the next -- in 2024.
MR. KLATZKOW: If the Board wants to set that as policy --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I mean, that's what I thought
I saw in the slides here. We have 90 --
June 27, 2023
Page 255
MR. KLATZKOW: Right now you are creating a vested
interest in his business. We're talking a lot of money here, all right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. KLATZKOW: And what I'm telling you is that's not how
we currently set up these permits. If you want to set up these
permits to give value to the businesses, that's your prerogative.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We don't want to do that.
MR. KLATZKOW: But telling him he can sell his business
and transfer the permit, and it will be grandfathered in creates a
vested right. You just created a tremendous value to these permits --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, and that's not what we want
to --
MR. KLATZKOW: -- that we just get, what, like $150 for?
MS. WILLIAMS: Two hundred and fifty.
MR. KLATZKOW: All right. They're worth tens of
thousands of dollars with that vested right.
MS. WILLIAMS: As it currently stands, just for simplicity and
clarification -- for the record, Tanya Williams, Public Services
department head.
When an applicant applies for a commercial launch permit, the
application itself states: Launch permits are nontransferable, period.
That launch permit is good until the end of the calendar year.
Now, what we ran into back in 2021 when we had a multitude of
people in chambers regarding access to commercial launch permits
and the fact that we had more demand than we had space to allow,
the idea of grandfathering in was brought into record. And at this
point in time, you do have 90 permits that are grandfathered in.
They're still not transferable. They have until the end of the year.
They do get first in line to get those 90 permits renewed. But as the
language in Parks policy and the application stands, it says that
permits are nontransferable, and that's the way your Park staff have
June 27, 2023
Page 256
been operating.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But the 90 people get first priority
in perpetuity, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
MS. WILLIAMS: No.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. This board, at any time, can decide
that we're going to do away with the permits or we're going to reduce
them in half or we're going to double them. It's Board prerogative.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But for right now, the 90 people in
December of -- at the end of this year will be -- will have priority
before we start selling permits to everybody else, correct?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, until -- unless between now and
then we change that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel is lit up,
but he's over here -- he's got a headache, I could tell.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, he's got a headache
because we're having a public hearing on a subject that isn't open for
a public hearing. We allowed a public comment on a circumstance,
and we don't need to be debating this right now. This is a -- this is a
report from staff with regard to our launch permits, and we're -- the
interweb is flying with -- with accolades, so that's what I'm over here
trying to monitor what we --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I don't let the web decide -- I
don't let the web decide this meeting. I think that the detail --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not suggesting that the
web is deciding this meeting, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The details that have been brought
up here to give us information, I personally feel, have been a little bit
confusing, and that's why we're all having discussion here. If we
want to take the slides on face value and, you know, have a debate
June 27, 2023
Page 257
later -- I don't think we were debating. I think there were some
things on the slides here that were confusing to this commissioner.
It sounded like possibly confusing a couple of others. I'm not
monitoring social media right now to determine how to direct this
magnet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I wasn't monitoring social
media right now. What I was doing was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- objecting to the fact that
we're having a discussion about something -- we shouldn't have a
public hearing on this, because the last time we started talking about
this, we -- the operator community was in absolute uproar. And
there are -- there's no argument that we're in a short on public
facilities for commercial operators and that we are looking to wean
away from commercial operators utilizing our public facilities.
There's no -- you and I are in complete concert with that.
One of -- and that, again, was one of the suggestions that I was
thinking about was changing or limiting the capacities of the
commercial operators that use our public facilities so that we have the
greatest -- because I think the general consensus is, is our public
ramps are supposed to be for the public and not value added to
commercial operators and the like.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't think we're having a public
meeting when commissioners are questioning the staff that are here
briefing us. This gentleman, you know, got a chance to make some
public comment and then has sat down.
But I think the majority of our exchange here has been with
Mr. Ossorio, with Olema, with Tanya, so I don't look at that as a
public forum.
But I don't see anybody else lit up here. I think we've given
quite a few questions and maybe homework assignments based on
June 27, 2023
Page 258
your informational briefing to us that has caused me, you know, some
concerns just looking at the numbers and hearing some of the
answers to some of the questions.
So, obviously, this was an informational exchange, and I think
what it has shown us is that before we start selling permits in
December, we better start talking about this a little bit, and we've got
to make sure that there's not loopholes that certain people, you know,
are exchanging permits, possibly, without our knowledge or without
our approval. So, I mean, I think that was -- that was pretty clear
that there's some unanswered questions here.
And this commissioner's got a concern that that 212 might not
be that magic golden number, especially when, in the next 12 months,
two major marinas could be closed for almost maybe a year, so, you
know...
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we'll return back to you
well before the December date with, first of all, some answers to
these questions and, second of all, recommendations as well as
getting your input. That way we can bring this at the appropriate
time, at a regular board meeting based on this conversation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anybody else?
Commissioner McDaniel's got a question about his road. No, I'm
just kidding. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to start on that
again?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you own a grader? Did I hear
that? Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I've got a picture of me on
my grader, so be careful.
I just want to make the point again. I said it once before, but
that man was standing at the podium. Give us a report on
alternatives for licensure for these businesses.
June 27, 2023
Page 259
MS. EDWARDS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Again, a business owner
shouldn't -- couldn't be -- shouldn't be penalized just because they're a
sole proprietor instead of an LLC because everybody's gone to an
LLC, but give us some alternatives for categories of licensure --
MS. EDWARDS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- so that an operator who has
an ecotour business can launch his boat, pick up customers, but
they've got to -- they can't take up public access except for that five
minutes that he's dumping -- putting his -- not -- excuse me -- that
he's launching his boat and then going forwards with his other things.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What we want, Olema, is
consistency, you know, and no ambiguity so, you know, it's crystal
clear so...
MS. EDWARDS: Absolutely. I agree.
Item #15B3
CELL SERVICE/TOWER UPDATE - STAFF HAS A MEETING
WITH VERIZON ON JUNE 29TH TO REVIEW THE STATUS,
HOPING TO GET THE PLAN IN FRONT OF DSAC
SUBCOMMITTEE IN AUGUST, FULL DSAC COMMITTEE IN
SEPTEMBER AND TAKE IT TO CCPC IN OCTOBER/
NOVEMBER AND THEN IN FRONT OF THE BOARD IN
DECEMBER/JANUARY. STAFF WILL COME BACK IN TWO
WEEKS WITH AN UPDATE ON THE MEETINGS
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We were at 15B3?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
June 27, 2023
Page 260
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I asked for this. I know all the
commissioners here had gotten a presentation from Verizon, and my
takeaway from Verizon was a real positive one, but they sort of left
me with the impression that they've been working closely with the
county staff, but maybe things aren't moving along as quickly as
possible, so -- had some concerns, and that's putting it mildly.
But what I said to the County Manager was, I think it might be
beneficial to all of us to hear from the county staff and separate
rumor from fact but also, too, to figure out maybe a more aggressive
trajectory or to hear that we actually do have one.
And so, Mr. Bosi, give us the overview of what's going on with
our discussions with cell phone towers and cell phone carries.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, Chair. Mike Bosi, Planning and
Zoning director.
May 10th, Verizon came and visited each one of the
commissioners, had a conversation, also met with staff initially. We
coordinated a meeting on May 25th with Verizon, went over their
initial draft, had a number of questions that we sent to them, they sent
us back. We worked with our consultant that we have on board with
AB&B to incorporate those questions and those responses to those
questions to our proposed draft.
We are meeting tomorrow with our consultants as well. We're
going to have another working session, and on Thursday we will have
a -- we have a meeting at 10:00 scheduled with Verizon to review
where we're at and the status, and then we're going to give them
where we're going from here.
Of course, what we know is after we get done with our draft, we
have to take it to the DSAC subcommittee, we have to take it to
DSAC, we have to take it to the Planning Commission, and then we
can take it to the Board of County Commissioners.
So we are moving along. Like I said, it's perfect timing. We
June 27, 2023
Page 261
have a working session tomorrow. We have a meeting with Verizon
on Thursday. From there, we're going to wrap it up, I would
anticipate, with the DSAC subcommittee. They don't meet in July.
So sometime in August, we could schedule that meeting, full DSAC,
in September; Planning Commission, October and November;
hopefully, December or January, we could be before the Board of
County Commissioners with the updated telecommunications section.
And just a -- just a little quirk note, Verizon has -- or they are
vertical real estate customers. Tower companies, American Tower
SBA, Crown, those are the entities that build towers, but Verizon has
a lot of in-depth knowledge and communication with them. They've
reviewed, peer reviewed in terms of, you know, the best practices
within the State of Florida.
We went out, we've tested those, we've looked at what they've
provided. We think it's a good product. We think it's going to be
something that's going to provide a little bit better ease of use for the
users and hopefully provide better coverage, because we know that
these -- these are essential services. These provide direct e911
communications, and we need to have -- we need to have the most
robust wireless communication systems that we have.
And the complicating factor is, there's four individual
carriers -- four national carriers that are out there and their
subcarriers. Each one of those have to have the same arrangements
and locations and towers. Not each of them are equal as well. So
there's a lot of different variances that go in.
But what we're trying to do is provide a telecommunications
section that's permissive to the industry but also respective of the
rights of the property owners and surrounding -- surrounding
property owners so there's only -- the towers are permitted up to a
certain right. Once they get -- a certain height. Once they get past
those certain heights, that's when a public-hearing process would
June 27, 2023
Page 262
come in and people would have opportunities to weigh in. And
that's a balancing act that we're trying to strike the right chord to.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And this has been
going on longer than May. Now, I'm assuming your recent
meetings, the May you're talking about was last month's May,
correct?
MR. BOSI: Yes. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So -- and the
frustration that you heard, Commissioner LoCastro, from Verizon
was the same frustration that I had been expressing, and it travels all
the way back to when the WAVV tower people were here in front of
us and hadn't been putting the necessary infrastructure in, and I
learned that day that we have a code that was written in 1996 -- is
that what my memory serves me correct as?
MR. KLATZKOW: It goes back forever, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. It goes back to
forever. And the code that we currently have requires new cell
tower builders to go get permission from the other cell towers that are
here in order to construct a tower even within the zoning parameters
that we have allowed.
MR. BOSI: That's -- yes, that's called collocation requirements.
And you want -- jurisdictions want to have collocation requirements
because collocation requirements minimizes the visual intrusions that
additional towers will have. So there's a balance to it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and the other balance
is out of balance because you've typified the cell service as an
essential service, and it's not designated as an essential service,
though it is utilized as such.
MR. BOSI: Our Land Development Code recognizes
telecommunication towers that provide e911, which they all do, as
June 27, 2023
Page 263
essential services. So our LDC recognizes them. We just don't
permit them by right anywhere. There's restrictions to them, and
that's the complicated nature of it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One of the complicating
natures of it.
And so the frustration that comes up is that we don't have a plan.
We have an antiquated code. We don't have a plan to provide for
necessary cell service for our community. Again, we've got property
rights, and we've got visual intrusions and so ons and so forth. So
the frustrations get piled on top of, because when people hit the
button, they want that thing to go, and they don't want to be
constrained by a bandwidth. They don't want to be constrained by
necessarily anything. They want that thing to go. And so that's
our -- that's our frustration.
MR. BOSI: And one other thing that the State Legislature has
done, in the right-of-way, they are -- they are permitted to locate
within the built environment with only a permit. No public hearing,
things like that. The thing is, those cells are somewhat limited.
They're not as -- the radius isn't as effective as a full-scale
telecommunication tower, so that's a little bit more costly strategy.
So we're trying to find the right balance. We're trying to find
the right balance between what's the height that could be permitted
where it can go -- where it goes without a public hearing, what's the
height that needs a public hearing.
An example -- and one of the things that's a little bit frustrating
is Verizon pointed out that an area near Camp Keais Road and Oil
Well Road, that they were having problems with -- problems with
coverage. And I questioned them why that was, because in their
agricultural zoning district, a tower up to 250 feet is permitted by
right. They would just need an SDP. They just need a property
owner that's going to lease them a 100-by-100 space for that tower to
June 27, 2023
Page 264
go there. So some of the issues that they've identified wasn't with
our code. It was with an inability to find a right collocation spot.
But we are working with them. Like I said, we're meeting
tomorrow. We have a meeting on Thursday. We're going to
advance this forward, and we're going to bring an updated
telecommunication section for the Board to ultimately consider.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One thing -- one other quick
question. How are they coming with the PUDA on Orangetree, the
wastewater/water facility?
Oh, he looks at you, Mr. French. Yes, Jamie French, for the
record.
MR. FRENCH: Good evening, Commissioner.
I'm not going to be like Mike Ossorio and say, What we're going
to talk about is the Orangetree PUD amendment, but I guess I just
said it. But Jamie French, for the record.
Commissioner, I spoke with the vendor today. They happened
to be in front of you, Mr. Mulhere. They'll be -- they have not
submitted yet. They'll be submitting in the next few weeks for the
amendment to the PUDA. The difference with this one is that when
Orangetree was created, this activity was prohibited.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Specifically. That's why we
decided we needed to do the amendment a year ago.
MR. FRENCH: Right. They've been on board, sir.
So I -- we're working at the speed of the industry, if we
thought -- if we thought the government worked slow...
Nonetheless, I did speak with Ellen Summers today from that
firm, and she said she's nearly ready to submit, and she'll be
submitting in the next few weeks.
There will be a public hearing as well as a neighborhood
information meeting that would be required because it is an
amendment to the PUD. So as soon as we get that in, we understand
June 27, 2023
Page 265
the importance of that, especially for that community.
I've also got a -- so hopefully I've answered your question.
I also have a meeting this Friday with Comcast. As it turns out,
that small antiquated tower that sits on our golf course site, that's
actually owned by Comcast, and there is a tower on there. So we're
leaning forward with some of these tower owners, for those that may
have leases with the County or perhaps those that we know are
smaller towers that maybe -- we're starting to see that equipment
disappear.
We have an inspection report, as many of you may be aware.
We became more in line with the State over the last few years on
their tower inspections. They have a radio engineer or a tower
engineer that certifies their tower. It was every three years. We've
extended that to every five. So as we're starting to note some of this
equipment leave or some of these towers not -- we're not seeing them
to as effective or perhaps they're smaller, we want to start that
conversation with them because I can -- I can tell you, driving
through the Estates, living out there, we affectionately refer to some
areas as the "no-phone zone," and we know that they do exist.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, you know, there again,
you and I -- we had a hearing on this a year or so ago. You came
through with a list of government-owned properties and that sort of
thing, but we were -- there was -- the left hand wasn't talking to the
right with the collocation language that's in our LDC and those sort
of things.
So those -- you know, you had actually produced -- both of you
produced a list of properties that were what I designated as the
low-language hanging fruit that could be -- that could be utilized by
these tower companies. But I don't know that we've actually
effectuated the LDC amendments to allow for that permitting process
to go.
June 27, 2023
Page 266
MR. FRENCH: And that's part of what we're doing now, and I
would tell you that with Mr. Finn's guidance, leadership, and
assistance, we're going to look at all of the county properties. But
that's on -- that's certainly on his to-do list. And as I said during the
budget hearing, he and I speak often, so --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Guidance, leadership, and
excellence. Boy, we're doomed. No. I'm just kidding.
Listen, I would just propose to the County Manager that since
there's a bunch of meetings with Verizon, at our next commissioner
meeting, even though it's -- we're not looking for you to give us a big
cell proposal, but I would like a 15B two weeks from now to just tell
us what happened from the meetings --
MS. PATTERSON: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- just to give us feedback in two
weeks on the meetings, not the big proposal where towers might go
or whatever, but, you know, just get us up to speed. We're not going
to meet with Verizon in the next two weeks, but you are multiple
times, and with the county experts. So I would just say, let's add that
to our meeting in two weeks and give us a "how goes it," you know,
from those meetings. It would be valuable to just get us up to speed.
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. We'll do that. And so the Board
knows, this is part of our economic development and -- as well as
feasibility with regards to resiliency in our community. We're
looking at this for our long-range plan as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, what's next?
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 15C. This is staff
June 27, 2023
Page 267
and commission general communications.
Well, Happy 4th of July early. Hope to see you-all at the sports
complex.
And we also have the time -- just a reminder, because our next
board meeting is on the 11th of July, we have the time capsule
opening at the museum on the 7th of July, so Friday, and also the
Time Travelers Picnic. So if any of you are around on Friday
afternoon, I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
With that, I have nothing else.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Hopefully Jimmy Hoffa is not at it.
Nothing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hopefully who?
MR. KLATZKOW: Jimmy Hoffa's not in it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anything?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just feel bad I'm not going to
be -- I'm going to be out of town for the 4th of July, because I really
enjoy the Zambelli Fireworks show. They really put on a good
show. I grew up with the Zambellis up in Zelienople, I believe,
Pennsylvania, so -- they put on a good show. But I'm tired. I'm
ready for bed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I'm thinking you're
past your bedtime.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I've got 12
items I need to go through.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Terri's over here having a
conniption. We're already an hour past our break, but...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wish everybody a
June 27, 2023
Page 268
happy afternoon.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have nothing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Happy 4th.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We covered a lot of
ground today. I just want to remind us, on positive close, we did two
awesome things today. We fully funded a veterans nursing home,
and we had Senator Passidomo here leading it off.
Leave here knowing that all of that discussion was awesome.
We have an incredible opportunity with First Tee and the golf course
and all the things that Commissioner Saunders has been leading.
And so, you know, thank you for that, and we look forward to that
progress.
And we voted on Option 1 for our central receiving facility.
That's a huge investment in our community, and I know that that's
something that's going to be a legacy type of thing that's going to live
on long past us.
So we had a lot of other complicated conversations here about
all kinds of other things, but leave here knowing that two big, huge,
major things -- and, also, we approved a storage unit that I hate a
little less than every other storage unit in Collier County, I'll go on
record.
Thank you. We're dismissed.
*******
**** Commissioner Hall moved, seconded by Commissioner
McDaniel, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted ****
June 27, 2023
Page 269
Item #16A1
RESOLUTION 2023-121: A RESOLUTION AMENDING
RESOLUTION 2021-120 FOR THE BELLMAR VILLAGE SRA
WITHIN THE RURAL LANDS STEWARDSHIP AREA
OVERLAY DISTRICT (RLSA) BY WAY OF A FIRST
AMENDMENT TO THE CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR BELLMAR
VILLAGE SRA. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN
SECTIONS 2, 3, 10, AND 11, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 28
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY. [PL20210001496] (THIS IS A
COMPANION TO ITEMS #16A2 AND #17A)
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 2023-122: A RESOLUTION AMENDING
RESOLUTION 2020-24 FOR THE RIVERGRASS VILLAGE SRA
WITHIN THE RURAL LANDS STEWARDSHIP AREA
OVERLAY DISTRICT (RLSA) BY WAY OF A FIRST
AMENDMENT TO THE CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR
RIVERGRASS VILLAGE SRA. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS
LOCATED IN SECTIONS 10, 14, 15, 22, 23, AND 27, TOWNSHIP
48 SOUTH, RANGE 28 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY.
[PL20210001496] (THIS IS A COMPANION TO ITEMS #16A1
AND #17A)
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER
FACILITIES FOR AUTOZONE #6873 NAPLES, PL20230002698.
June 27, 2023
Page 270
Item #16A4
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR COLLIER COUNTY RESOURCE RECOVERY PARK –
PHASE A, PL20230004556.
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER
AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR SOUTHBROOKE
MEDICAL CENTER, PL20230003683.
Item #16A6
RESOLUTION 2023-123: RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF EDGE 75 BY
WATERMARK, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20190000548 (FP)
AND APPLICATION NUMBER PL20180003695 (SDP) AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $8,946.
Item #16A7
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR
June 27, 2023
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VALENCIA TRAILS NAPLES - PLAT THREE, PL20220007022.
Item #16A8
RECORDED THE MINOR FINAL PLAT ANTILLES 3,
APPLICATION PL20220007209.
Item #16A9
RECORDED THE AMENDED FINAL PLAT OF CAYMAS
REPLAT, (APPLICATION NUMBER PL20220008455)
APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD FORM CONSTRUCTION
AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT, AND APPROVAL OF
THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF
$7,254,920.86.
Item #16A10
RECORDED THE FINAL PLAT OF LIDO ISLES (APPLICATION
NUMBER PL20220005501) APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD
FORM CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
AND APPROVAL OF THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE
AMOUNT OF $1,647,786.28.
Item #16A11
CLERK RELEASED A PERFORMANCE BOND IN THE
AMOUNT OF $140,960 WHICH WAS POSTED AS A
GUARANTY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER
PL20190000063 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH KAICASA.
June 27, 2023
Page 272
Item #16A12
A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE AND AUTHORIZE PAYMENT, IN
THE AMOUNT OF $675, FOR COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING
COMMISSIONER, JOSEPH SCHMITT, TO ATTEND THE
FLORIDA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 36TH ANNUAL
ENVIRONMENTAL PERMITTING SUMMER SCHOOL, AN
ENVIRONMENTAL PERMITTING SEMINAR FOR THE DATES
OF JULY 18-21, 2023.
Item #16A13
RELEASE OF THREE CODE ENFORCEMENT LIENS WITH A
VALUE OF $28,089.09 FOR PAYMENT OF $1,139.09 IN THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS ENTITLED BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS V. EDWARD SLASIENSKI, CODE
ENFORCEMENT BOARD CASE NO. CEPM20090005339
RELATING TO PROPERTY 1112 HIGHLANDS DRIVE,
COLLIER COUNTY, AND CASE NOS. CENA20090005343 AND
CEPM20090005344, RELATING TO PROPERTY 1100
HIGHLANDS DRIVE, COLLIER COUNTY.
Item #16A14
EASEMENT USE AGREEMENT (AGREEMENT) FOR LOT 65,
PARROT CAY, ACCORDING TO THE PLAT THEREOF AS
RECORDED AT PLAT BOOK 58, PAGE 75 OF THE PUBLIC
RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY. (EUA-PL20220008520)
Item #16A15
June 27, 2023
Page 273
EASEMENT USE AGREEMENT (AGREEMENT) FOR LOT 70,
PARROT CAY, ACCORDING TO THE PLAT THEREOF AS
RECORDED AT PLAT BOOK 58, PAGE 75 OF THE PUBLIC
RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY. (EUA-PL20230001525)
Item #16A16
CONSERVATION COLLIER WINCHESTER HEAD PRESERVE
INTERIM MANAGEMENT PLAN UPDATE UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM.
Item #16A17
AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE WITH: (1)
STEPHEN CRAPARO, (2) ALBERT N. AND LINDA M.
FLEMING, AND (3) IVAN AND ANN O. FESSER UNDER THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION PROGRAM,
AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED $134,265.
Item #16B1
COLLIER COUNTY LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
MAPLEWOOD HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR
LANDSCAPE AND IRRIGATION IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN
THE SHERBROOK DRIVE, STANHOPE CIRCLE, AND
CROSSFIELD CIRCLE PUBLIC RIGHTS-OF-WAY.
Item #16B2
COLLIER COUNTY LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
June 27, 2023
Page 274
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND COLLIER
HEALTH PARK OWNERS’ ASSOCIATION, INC., FOR
LANDSCAPE AND IRRIGATION IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN
THE HEALTH PARK BOULEVARD PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY.
Item #16B3
AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO AGREEMENT RT015 BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY AND THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TO EXTEND THE
AGREEMENT FOR A THREE-MONTH PERIOD FROM JULY 1,
2023, TO SEPTEMBER 30, 2023, FOR BIOLOGICAL DEBRIS
REMOVAL ASSOCIATED WITH RED TIDE WITHIN COLLIER
COUNTY.
Item #16B4
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 ADDING 90 DAYS UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 22-8046, "DAVIS BLVD (SR-84)
LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS - GRANT FUNDED" PROJECT,
WITH HANNULA LANDSCAPING AND IRRIGATION, INC.,
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
Item #16B5
ELECTRONIC SUBMISSION OF THE COUNTY INCENTIVE
GRANT PROGRAM (CIGP) APPLICATION WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO FUND A
PHASE OF IMMOKALEE RD. AND LIVINGSTON RD.
OVERPASS PROJECT IN THE AMOUNT OF $10,000,000.
June 27, 2023
Page 275
Item #16B6
RESOLUTION 2023-124: STATE FY2023/24
TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED TRIP & EQUIPMENT
GRANT AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA COMMISSION
FOR THE TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED IN THE
AMOUNT OF $744,198 WITH A LOCAL MATCH OF $82,688,
TO ASSIST WITH SYSTEM OPERATING EXPENSES, AND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS.
(TRANSIT GRANT AND MATCH FUNDS 4034/4035)
Item #16B7
SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING FOR REQUEST FOR
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 23-8085, “DESIGN
SERVICES FOR 47TH AVENUE NE - IMMOKALEE ROAD TO
EVERGLADES BOULEVARD” AND AUTHORIZE STAFF TO
BEGIN CONTRACT PRICE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TOP-
RANKED FIRM, KIMLEY HORN AND ASSOCIATES, INC., SO
THAT STAFF CAN BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK
FOR THE BOARD’S CONSIDERATION AT A SUBSEQUENT
MEETING (PROJECT #60212).
Item #16B8
CONSTRUCTION SERVICES FOR THE CR-846E SURTAX
SIDEWALK PROJECT, FROM EAST MAIN STREET (SR 29) TO
AIRPARK BOULEVARD, IN THE UNINCORPORATED
COMMUNITY OF IMMOKALEE, TO COASTAL CONCRETE
PRODUCTS LLC., UNDER THE ROADWAY CONTRACTOR
June 27, 2023
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SERVICES AGREEMENT NO. 21-7842. (PROJECT NUMBER
60228)
Item #16B9
CHANGE ORDER NO. 5 TO AGREEMENT NO. 16-6699,
PROFESSIONAL DESIGN SERVICES FOR THE “ELEVEN
BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS PROJECT” WITH HNTB
CORPORATION TO EXTEND THE CONTRACT TIME FOR
PROFESSIONAL POST-DESIGN AND RELATED SERVICES ON
THE PROJECT BY AN ADDITIONAL 354 DAYS, IN A TOTAL
NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT OF $73,734.00, AND AUTHORIZE
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
(PROJECT #66066)
Item #16B10
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 ADDING 90 DAYS UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 22-8047, "COLLIER BLVD (SR-951)
LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS - GRANT FUNDED" PROJECT,
WITH HANNULA LANDSCAPING AND IRRIGATION, INC.,
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
Item #16B11
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
AGREEMENT NO. 19-7632 WITH HIGHSPANS ENGINEERING,
INC., FOR THE “CEI & RELATED SERVICES ON THE 11
BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS EAST OF STATE ROAD 29
PACKAGE A, B AND C” PROJECT, TO ADD 60 DAYS TO THE
June 27, 2023
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CONTRACT TIME AND REALLOCATE FUNDS FROM TASK 2
TO TASK 1 AND TASK 3 AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER. (PROJECT
NUMBER 66066)
Item #16B12
CHANGE ORDER NO. 2, ADDING SEVENTEEN (17) DAYS TO
AGREEMENT NO. 20-7708 WITH QUALITY ENTERPRISES
USA, INC., FOR THE DESIGN BUILD OF VETERAN
MEMORIAL BOULEVARD EXTENSION-PHASE I PROJECT,
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER. (COUNTY PROJECT NUMBER
60198)
Item #16B13
COUNTY MANAGER’S AWARD OF THE REQUEST FOR
QUOTE (“RFQ”) FOR “CCON WETLAND OUTFALLS” UNDER
AGREEMENT #20-7800, “UNDERGROUND CONTRACTOR
SERVICES” TO DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC., IN THE
AMOUNT OF $631,300.
Item #16C1
AGREEMENT TO PROVIDE POTABLE WATER,
WASTEWATER AND IRRIGATION QUALITY WATER
UTILITY SERVICES BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, ACTING
AS EX-OFFICIO AS THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT (HERINAFTER
June 27, 2023
Page 278
REFERRED TO AS THE "CCWSD"), THE BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS OF THE BIG CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP
DISTRICT (HEREINAFTER REFERRED TO AS THE
"DISTRICT"), AND COLLIER LAND HOLDINGS, LTD.
(HEREINAFTER REFERRED TO AS "LANDOWNER") TO
EXCLUSIVELY PROVIDE POTABLE WATER, WASTEWATER,
AND IRRIGATION QUALITY WATER SERVICES WITHIN
BELLMAR VILLAGE. (THIS IS A COMPANION TO ITEMS
#16C2 AND #17A)
Item #16C2
UTILITY AGREEMENT BETWEEN CDC LAND
INVESTMENTS, LLC AND COLLIER LAND HOLDINGS, LTD.
(LANDOWNERS), THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OF THE
BIG CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP DISTRICT (DISTRICT), AND
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, ACTING EX-OFFICIO AS THE
GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER
SEWER DISTRICT (CCWSD) TO EXCLUSIVELY PROVIDE
POTABLE WATER, WASTEWATER, AND IRRIGATION
QUALITY WATER SERVICES WITHIN THE TOWN OF BIG
CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA (SRA)
DEVELOPMENT. (THIS IS A COMPANION TO ITEMS #16C1
AND #17A)
Item #16C3
INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 23-8067, “TAMIAMI WELL
NO. 23 GENERATOR REPLACEMENT,” TO ZABATT ENGINE
SERVICES, INC., D/B/A ZABATT POWER SYSTEMS INC., IN
June 27, 2023
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THE AMOUNT OF $327,681.91 AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
(PROJECT NUMBER 70069)
Item #16C4
CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 23-8092,
“CARICA PUMP STATION ELECTRICAL IMPROVEMENTS,”
TO TECHNICAL MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATES, INC., IN THE
AMOUNT OF $963,100.00, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
Item #16C5
CHANGE ORDER NO. 3, ALLOCATING A PORTION OF THE
OWNER’S ALLOWANCE TO COVER THE COSTS FOR WORK
DIRECTIVE NO. 2 IN THE AMOUNT OF $12,220.08 UNDER
AGREEMENT NO. 22-7950 WITH QUALITY ENTERPRISES
USA, INC., FOR THE “PELICAN BAY BLVD SEWER
REPLACEMENT” PROJECT, RATIFY THE WORK DIRECTED
BY STAFF AND COMPLETED UNDER WORK DIRECTIVE NO.
2, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER.
Item #16C6
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO RECOGNIZE $912,600 IN
ADDITIONAL TIPPING FEE REVENUES RECEIVED AS
RESULT OF HURRICANE IAN IN THE SOLID WASTE
DISPOSAL FUND (FUND 4070) AND TO USE THOSE
REVENUES TO PAY FOR ADDITIONAL EXPENSES
June 27, 2023
Page 280
INCURRED AS A RESULT OF HURRICANE IAN IN THE SAME
FUND AND AUTHORIZE A BUDGET AMENDMENT
TRANSFERRING $80,000 IN THE MANDATORY TRASH
COLLECTION FUND (FUND 4073) TO PAY FOR ADDITIONAL
EXPENSES INCURRED AS A RESULT OF HURRICANE IAN.
Item #16D1
A RESTRICTED DONATION, IN THE AMOUNT OF $10,000,
FROM THE NATIONAL PHILANTHROPIC TRUST IN
SUPPORT OF COLLIER COUNTY DOMESTIC ANIMAL
SERVICES. (PUBLIC SERVICES GRANT FUND 1839)
Item #16D2
AGREEMENT NO. 23-020-NS, “CURFEW SOIL FUMIGANT,”
WITH SOUTHERN SOILS TURF SOLUTIONS, LLC., IN AN
AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $100,000 PER FISCAL YEAR,
UNDER A SOLE-SOURCE WAIVER FOR A PERIOD OF FIVE
YEARS.
Item #16E1
REPORT FOR THE SALE OF 48 ITEMS AND THE
ALLOCATION OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $369,395.00
ASSOCIATED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD
ON APRIL 22, 2023.
Item #16F1
CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 23-8063,
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“CCSO MARCO SUBSTATION SEAWALL & DREDGE,” TO
BLUE MARLIN MARINE CONSTRUCTION & SERVICES,
INCORPORATED, IN THE AMOUNT OF $327,990, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT.
Item #16F2
AGREEMENT FOR THE SALE AND PURCHASE FOR THE
ACQUISITION OF FIVE (5) ACRES OF UNIMPROVED LAND
FOR THE EXPANSION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY FLEET
MANAGEMENT DIVISION (“FLEET”) FACILITY PARKING
AREA AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED $603,550.
Item #16F3
MAGIC LIGHTS EVENT TO BE CONDUCTED BY THE
COLLIER COUNTY AGRICULTURAL FAIR AND EXPOSITION,
INC.
Item #16F4
WAIVED THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE ISSUANCE OF THE
NOTICE TO PROCEED FOR COMMENCEMENT OF SERVICES
UNDER PURCHASE ORDER 4500222179 TO TETRA TECH,
INC., FOR PRELIMINARY RECOVERY CONSULTING
SUPPORT SERVICES FOR HURRICANE IAN UNDER
CONTRACT #17-7116, WHICH WERE NECESSARY TO
PROVIDE CRITICAL CONSULTING SERVICES IN THE
DISASTER RECOVERY SUPPORT TO COUNTY STAFF, AND
TO APPROVE/RATIFY AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF
June 27, 2023
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$238,056 IN EXPENDITURES WHICH HAVE BEEN INCURRED
THAT WERE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE CONTRACT
REQUIREMENTS.
Item #16F5
RESOLUTION 2023-125: RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2022-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
Item #16F6
THIRD EXTENSION AND AMENDMENT TO INTERLOCAL
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND THE CITY
OF NAPLES GOVERNING USE OF CITY OF NAPLES BEACH
PARKING FACILITIES AND PARK AND RECREATION
PROGRAMS EXTENDING THE TERM TO SEPTEMBER 30,
2023.
Item #16G1
REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (“RFP”) NO. 22-8051, “AIRPORT
MANAGEMENT CONSULTING SERVICES,” TO CRAWFORD,
MURPHY & TILLY, INC., AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
June 27, 2023
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Item #16I1
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
JUNE 27, 2023
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION
AS DIRECTED:
A. DISTRICTS:
1) Wentworth Estates Community Development District:
12/11/2014 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/12/2015 Oath of Office – David Negip, Michelle May & Joseph
Newsome
03/12/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/14/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
08/13/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/12/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/11/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/11/2017 Oath of Office – James Oliver
05/11/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/10/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
10/12/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/09/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/14/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/25/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes
01/10/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/09/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/13/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/12/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/14/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/11/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/10/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/08/2020 Affidavit
11/12/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/13/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/12/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/11/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/10/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/13/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/10/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
04/13/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/09/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/14/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
2) Currents Community Development District:
08/12/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
09/20/2019 Affidavit
09/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Election Official Ballot
09/11/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Various Affidavits
09/11/2019 Oaths of Office – John Wollard, Robert Summers, II,
Ryan Futch, Timothy Martin
10/14/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/13/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/01/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/08/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/14/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
02/10/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/28/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/09/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/11/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/12/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Oath of Office – Paul Zotter
05/11/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/14/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/04/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
08/11/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
3) Flow Way Community Development District:
11/11/2014 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/13/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
02/10/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/17/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/12/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
09/08/2015 Signed Meeting Minute & Affidavit
10/13/2015 Affidavit
10/27/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/10/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/01/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/10/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/12/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
08/09/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/18/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/08/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/22/2016 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/17/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/21/2017 Affidavit
03/21/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/25/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/14/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/05/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
10/17/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
10/25/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/08/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/29/2017 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
05/15/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes & Oath of Office – Adam Painter
05/21/2018 Affidavit
08/20/2018 Affidavit
09/18/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes
11/07/2018 Affidavit
12/18/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
12/18/2018 Oath of Office – Andrew Miller
02/06/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
03/19/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/16/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Oath of Office – Timothy Martin
05/16/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
06/20/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/18/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
07/25/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
08/22/2019 Signed Meeting Minutes
09/19/2019 Affidavit
10/08/2019 Affidavit
01/21/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/20/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
04/16/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Staff Reports
05/21/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/25/2020 Affidavit & Ordinance
07/16/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/17/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/13/2020 Affidavit
10/15/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
11/19/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/17/2020 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
01/21/2021 Affidavit
03/18/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/15/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/03/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/17/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/15/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/16/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
10/21/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit
11/18/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
12/02/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit
12/16/2021 Signed Meeting Minutes
02/17/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
03/17/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
04/11/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit
04/21/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/19/2022 Affidavit
05/25/2022 Affidavit
06/16/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
06/22/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes
07/21/2022 Signed Meeting Minutes & Affidavit
09/04/2022 Affidavit
4) Landowner’s Meeting Wentworth Estates Community Development
District
11/11/2014 Signed Meeting Minutes
03/12/2015 Signed Meeting Minutes
05/10/2018 Signed Meeting Minutes; Affidavit & Oath of Office – Robert
Kody
5) Fiddlers Creek Community Development District #2
Establishing a CDD Ordinance Packet
04/09/2019 Letter of Purpose from Coleman, Yovanovich, Koester,
w/exhibits, Affidavit of Pre-Filed Testimony, Warranty Deed, Affidavit
6) Verona Walk Community Development District
05/19/2023 Proposed Fiscal Year 2023/2024 Budget (October 1, 2023
through September 30, 2024)
A. OTHER:
June 27, 2023
Page 284
Item #16J1
RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN JUNE 1, 2023, AND JUNE 14,
2023, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06.
Item #16J2
DETERMINED VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES
PAYABLE AND PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF
JUNE 21, 2023.
Item #16J3
AGREEMENT NO. 23-8081, “AUDIT SERVICES,” WITH
CLIFTONLARSONALLEN LLP FOR THREE YEARS OF
AUDITING SERVICES IN THE AGGREGATE BASE AMOUNT
OF $1,371,250 AND AUTHORIZE EXECUTION OF THE
ANNUAL AUDIT ENGAGEMENT LETTER.
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2023-126: APPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION ADVISORY
COMMITTEE – APPOINTING NICHOLAS PEARSON W/TERM
EXPIRING ON FEBRUARY 11, 2027
June 27, 2023
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Item #16K2
FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COUNTY, LA MINNESOTA
RIVIERA, LLC, AND THE RIVIERA GOLF ESTATES
HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION, INC., REGARDING
SETTLEMENT OF A BERT HARRIS CLAIM CONCERNING
THE RIVIERA GOLF COURSE, IN ORDER TO EXTEND THE
TIMEFRAMES PROVIDED FOR IN THE AGREEMENT.
Item #16K3
DIRECTED THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ADVERTISE AND
BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AN ORDINANCE
ALLOWING FOR PUBLICATION OF CERTAIN STATUTORILY
REQUIRED LEGAL ADVERTISEMENTS, PUBLICATIONS,
AND NOTICES ON THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT’S
PUBLIC NOTICE WEBSITE IN LIEU OF NEWSPAPER
PUBLICATION.
Item #16K4
APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED FEE SCHEDULES FOR THE
ATTORNEYS SELECTED BY THE BOARD AT ITS JUNE 13,
2023, MEETING TO PROVIDE LEGAL SERVICES FOR THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT & NUISANCE ABATEMENT BOARD
AND CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD.
Item #16K5
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF
June 27, 2023
Page 286
THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS AGAINST KENNETH ANDREW SLUSSER
IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL
CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, TO
RECOVER $20,523.32 IN DAMAGES INCURRED BY THE
COUNTY FOR REPAIRS TO THE COLLIER COUNTY
GOVERNMENT COMPLEX SIGN, PLUS COSTS OF
LITIGATION.
Item #16K6
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND RELEASE IN THE
AMOUNT OF $950,000 PAYABLE TO COLLIER COUNTY TO
SETTLE THE CASES OF COLLIER COUNTY V. MAMMOTH
CONSTRUCTORS, LLC (CASE NO. 2021-CA-000132), NOW
PENDING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE TWENTIETH
JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA CONCERNING THE COUNTY’S CLAIM FOR
DAMAGES TO A 24” WASTEWATER FORCE MAIN AND THE
RELATED CASE OF AMERISURE MUTUAL INSURANCE
COMPANY V. MAMMOTH CONSTRUCTORS, LLC, AND
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER
COUNTY (CASE NO. 2:23-CV-00108-JLB-KCD) NOW PENDING
IN THE FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE
DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AN ACTION FOR DECLARATORY
RELIEF REGARDING AMERISURE’S COVERAGE FOR THE
LOSS.
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2023-127: RESOLUTION CREATING THE TOWN
June 27, 2023
Page 287
OF BIG CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA BY
AMENDING THE LONGWATER VILLAGE STEWARDSHIP
RECEIVING AREA AND CONVERTING IT TO A TOWN, BY
DESIGNATING AN ADDITIONAL 544.6± ACRES AS A
STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA, TO ALLOW THE
DEVELOPMENT OF RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS,
COMMERCIAL/LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, CIVIC,
GOVERNMENTAL AND INSTITUTIONAL USES, AND SENIOR
HOUSING SUBJECT TO A MAXIMUM PM PEAK HOUR TRIP
CAP; AND BY APPROVING THE RECEIVING AREA CREDIT
AGREEMENT AND ESTABLISHING STEWARDSHIP CREDITS
UTILIZED BY THE DESIGNATION OF THE TOWN OF BIG
CYPRESS STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA.
[PL20210001496] (THIS IS A COMPANION TO ITEMS #16A1,
#16A2, #16C1, AND #16C2)
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2023-33: ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING THE
CAYMAS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT ON
767.687± ACRES LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD APPROXIMATELY TWO MILES SOUTH OF
DAVIS BOULEVARD IN SECTIONS 11, 12, 13, AND 14,
TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA. [PL20230000377]
Item #17C
RESOLUTION 2023-128: RESOLUTION PROVIDING FOR THE
ESTABLISHMENT OF A CONDITIONAL USE TO ALLOW A
CHURCH WITHIN THE ESTATES (E) ZONING DISTRICT
June 27, 2023
Page 288
PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.03.01.B.1.C.1 OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR A ±2.15-ACRE
PROPERTY LOCATED AT 13385 COLLIER BOULEVARD,
ALSO DESCRIBED AS THE NORTH 150 FEET OF TRACT 114,
GOLDEN GATE ESTATES, UNIT NO. 1 SUBDIVISION, ON THE
WEST SIDE OF COLLIER BOULEVARD, APPROXIMATELY
ONE-HALF MILE NORTH OF PINE RIDGE ROAD, IN SECTION
10, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20220003327]
Item #17D
RESOLUTION 2023-129: RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
June 27, 2023
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:01 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST. n
CRYSTAL, IC KVZEL, CLERK
.A ,fl
wirieri1
signaati.re or y
These minutes approve the Board on0(pilL,.\/' j5 4:776?-
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 289