AHAC Minutes 04/18/2023April 18, 2023
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MINUTES OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Naples, Florida, April 18, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, the Collier County Affordable Housing Advisory
Committee, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 8:30 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION at the Collier County
Growth Management Department Building, Conference Room #609/610, 2800
Horseshoe Drive North, Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
Chairman: Steve Hruby
Vice Chairman: Jennifer Faron
Jessica Brinkert (excused)
Arol Buntzman
Gary Hains (excused)
Commissioner Chris Hall
John Harney
Todd Lyon
Planning Commissioner Paul Shea
Mary Waller
County Staff Members Present:
Cormac Giblin, Planning Manager, Development Review
Mike Bosi, Director, Planning & Zoning
Derek Perry, Assistant County Attorney
Jaime Cook, Director, Development Review
Sarah Harrington, Interim Dir., Economic Development & Housing
Julie Chardon, Ops Support Specialist II, GMD
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Any persons in need of a verbatim record of the meeting may request a copy of the audio recording
from the Collier County Growth Management Department.
1. CALL TO ORDER & PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
[The pledge of allegiance was recited.]
Chairman Hruby called the meeting to order at 8:32 a.m. He told speakers they have to register prior
to speaking and can speak up to three minutes, unless the time is adjusted by the chairman. If you’re
disabled and need an accommodation to participate, you can contact the county Facilities
Management Department. Devices for the hearing impaired are located in the County Commissioners’
Office.
2. ROLL CALL OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND STAFF
Mr. Giblin called the roll call and noted Mr. Hains and Ms. Brinkert have excused absences.
A quorum of eight was present in the boardroom.
Planning Commissioner Shea asked what makes an excused absence versus unexcused.
Mr. Giblin said it’s unexcused if they don’t provide notice.
A discussion ensued over non-excused and excused absences.
Planning Commissioner Shea said getting an absence excused bypasses having to show up.
Ms. Waller said Ms. Brinkert is good when she shows up.
Mr. Giblin said he will provide the complete attendance record and the ordinance/resolution next
month so they can discuss it.
Planning Commissioner Shea noted that at the Planning Commission it’s by permission and
they vote on it.
Chairman Hruby said if it becomes flagrant, the committee could tell her to either start coming
or resign. We can force her to resign.
3. APROVAL OF AGENDA AND MINUTES
a. a. Approval of today’s agenda
Mr. Giblin said he has one addition from staff under New Business, a discussion over a possible
change to the AHAC’s meeting date and time. We’ve been talking with Commissioner Hall’s
office recently about changing it to a different time.
Chairman Hruby asked if it was a discussion for a specific month or our general schedule.
Mr. Giblin said it’s for the ongoing schedule.
Chairman Hruby asked if anyone had an objection to that.
[No one objected.]
Ms. Waller made a motion to approve the agenda, as amended. The motion was seconded by Mr.
Lyon. The motion passed unanimously, 8-0.
b. b. Approval of March 21, 2023, AHAC meeting minutes
Planning Commissioner Shea said when he reads the minutes, there’s a tremendous number of
action items buried in there. Is there a way we can highlight those to show they’re action items to
keep track of them?
Mr. Giblin said you can ask the minutes taker to make those highlights in the minutes.
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Chairman Hruby suggested making them boldface.
Mr. Giblin said votes and motions are typically highlighted.
Planning Commissioner Shea said there are a lot of things that say somebody’s going to do
something and they’re buried. They’re action items we’re not tracking.
Chairman Hruby said that’s a good point. He gave kudos to the minutes-taker, calling it a very
thorough set of minutes, probably one of the most thorough we’ve seen. It really documents what
went on. Since we’re not videotaped, it’s great to have that level of detail, so thank you for your
effort. It’s a lot to put together.
Ms. Waller made a motion to approve the March 21, 2023, meeting minutes. The motion was
seconded by Planning Commissioner Shea. The motion passed unanimously, 8-0.
4. INFORMATIONAL ITEMS AND PRESENTATION
a. Committee Vacancies – Two Applications
Chairman Hruby noted they have one vacancy and will have another soon and have two
applications.
Mr. Giblin said he spoke with the office that advertises the vacancies. The seats remain vacant
until staff tells them to close the posting. So far, they’ve received two applications from Hannah
Roberts and Susan Ryan, which are in your packet. We haven’t told them to close the posting yet.
We have the seat vacated by former chairman Trachtenberg and possibly another seat coming
vacant shortly, so we may keep it open until we have two seats to get a good slate of candidates.
Chairman Hruby said he’s been talking with someone who’d be an excellent candidate. He was
serious and we met twice to talk. He called last night to say he can’t do it for about six months
due to commitments, so he said next time. He’d be an excellent candidate for the AHAC, so we’ll
keep in touch to ensure he submits his application next time.
Mr. Giblin said the two applications in your packet are informational only, just to let you know
who applied. The posting will run for another 20 to 30 days.
Chairman Hruby said this could be an action item for us at our next meeting.
Mr. Giblin said we may try to wrap it up then.
Action Item: Discuss the applications received for vacant seats at the next meeting.
Planning Commissioner Shea asked what the requirement was for attendance. The Planning
Commission’s policy is that if you miss two and it’s not excused, you’re done.
Mr. Giblin said the county has the same attendance requirements for all advisory committees and
subcommittees.
Ms. Waller noted that some haven’t been attending and asked if they’ve been keeping track.
Mr. Giblin said we can include an attendance summary in your next packet.
Ms. Waller said they need to start recruiting earlier. Last year, we had a committee that couldn’t
vote. We need to start our renewal process earlier so the seats aren’t vacant.
Mr. Giblin said he’ll suggest to the County Attorney’s Office that seats that are expiring be
advertised 60 days before their expiration date.
Ms. Waller said if you advertise a few days before the expiration date, the seats will expire.
They’re no longer a member of the committee. It needs to be advertised prior to the expiration
date. You’re not allowing enough time for another.
Mr. Giblin said he’d ask for 60 days.
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Planning Commissioner Shea asked if they had to be specific about the expiring seats.
Mr. Giblin said they do.
Chairman Hruby said the seats are filled by category. [He then called the roll call so they can
determine absences in the future.]
Action Item: Ensure a roll call is taken to keep a running tally of absences and include the
tally in the agenda packets. (The minutes title page shows absences.)
5. PUBLIC COMMENT
[None]
6. DISCUSSION ITEMS
a. Subcommittee Recap – J. Harney
i. AHAC Work Plan Review
Mr. Harney provided a report on the subcommittee’s work plan:
Jennifer put together an outline for a strategic plan, a work plan. The idea is to make it an
ongoing, updated list of plans because we don’t have an ongoing work plan to determine
where things are. In the past, we had initiatives and created those as part of the Local
Housing Assistance Plan.
The LHAP is required by the state as part of the county ordinance that created the
AHAC. There’s not much about meetings written down.
The idea is to create a plan we can work from. We reviewed the plan in depth at the last
meeting and took a couple of items off because they’d already been handled or are about
to be finished, so they’re not appropriate to move forward on.
We have a revised list that includes everything we feel is important going forward.
We had a lengthy discussion about the subcommittee’s work and redefined it. We
decided it would largely decide what we talk about at the full AHAC meetings, rather
than to be a score sheet that we work on. The subcommittee would screen issues on an
ongoing basis before the full AHAC works on them.
There has been bloat in our meetings. Several things were presented here that maybe
aren’t relevant for us to talk about. They took up a substantial amount of time over the
last year or two. We have enough really important items to work on, so it’s better for us
to sharpen what we’re working on and give it the time necessary, rather than be distracted
by other things that have come in here.
Some items in the last year probably never should have gotten to the full AHAC. The
idea is to have a good plan and have the subcommittee develop it, then have the full
AHAC work to execute it.
Chairman Hruby told the AHAC:
We’re not sure what to name the subcommittee yet. It works like a non-profit board,
an executive committee that screens the agenda to keep board meetings efficient, on
target and on time.
We discussed whether to meet every month or year and the consensus was to meet
quarterly to update issues.
We discussed whether the subcommittee helps set the agenda and decided the most
efficient way to set the agenda is as we’ve been doing it, with the chair, staff and
Cormac sitting down about a week before the meeting.
He will be co-chair of the subcommittee with Mr. Harney to help tie it to the agenda.
Mr. Giblin said it would be an ongoing subcommittee that would meet quarterly to basically
steer the initiatives that would be discussed by the full AHAC.
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Vice Chair Faron said it’s akin to the annual strategic planning that you’d see in private
enterprise, where you do this toward the latter part of the year. Some things will roll off the list
because they end, while some will continue indefinitely. The subcommittee would help set it
up so we don’t spend a lot of time at the full AHAC discussing what we’re going to discuss.
Chairman Hruby said the idea is to be more efficient.
Commissioner Hall said he’s impressed with it. It’s a good tool to use. Kudos.
Chairman Hruby noted that Jennifer compiled it.
Vice Chair Faron said that everyone helped. We’ve done a lot of this work and the goal is
that Commissioner Hall will be able to tell people what the AHAC is doing. It holds us
accountable, gives the BCC comfort with what we’re doing and sets the stage for our agendas
and discussions.
Ms. Waller noted that it outlines different aspects that are recommended. These are to be
recommended or these are already decisions that are made that AHAC is going to
recommend.
Vice Chair Faron said the idea is that these are concepts the AHAC will research, investigate
and potentially come up with a recommendation to the BCC. We’d have recommendations
we’d ask the BCC to approve. Some may not make sense due to research and staff time, but
this is a starting point for the AHAC’s discussion.
b. BCC Initiatives vs Live Local Act – M. Bosi
Mr. Bosi reported to the AHAC:
He provided the Board of County Commissioners with the state’s ideas and those from
the 2017 housing plan, which have parallel concepts.
The Live Local Act is a provision that prohibits jurisdiction, cities, municipalities and
counties from holding public hearings when there’s an affordable housing proposal
with at least 40% allocated to an income-level threshold identified within Florida
Statute 420.004, which has low, very low and a gap in moderate ranges if you provide
40% of affordable housing at a minimum of 120% of AMI for a 30-year period.
If the project is commercial, industrial or mixed-use property, you can’t be required to
go through a public hearing. You’re entitled to those intensities, the upper threshold.
If you have 40% of that and if you’re on commercial, industrial or mixed-use, then
you’re entitled to the intensity and density of the highest level allowed within
residential, where residential development is allowed within unincorporated Collier
County right now, which is 91.77 units an acre.
The height you’re entitled to is three stories, or the tallest structure allowed
commercially and residentially within one mile of your project, so it depends on where
the project is. Within a one-mile radius, you’re entitled to the highest approved heights
allowed within that radius.
Chairman Hruby asked if that refers to the zoning requirements, all buildings that may be in
a PUD.
Mr. Bosi said if the zoning is a PUD.
Chairman Hruby said if you have a 12-story building a mile away that’s already built and
part of a PUD, that’s your benchmark?
Mr. Bosi said that’s the benchmark, unless the PUD allows for even higher than what was
constructed. It allows for what was approved, so it doesn’t have to be whether it allows for 150
feet, but they only built 120 feet. The project would be entitled to 150 feet.
Chairman Hruby asked if it crosses borders.
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Mr. Bosi responded that:
They can’t cross borders. The City of Naples cannot look to the county and the county
cannot look to the City of Naples. It has to be within the jurisdiction, so you’re entitled
to the height in that allocation that the one-mile radius provides.
The density allowed for the mini triangle is 92 units an acre and then what you’re
required to do is go to your Site-Development Plan. You’re not required to go to a
public hearing. You go to the SDP and the task is to provide for water management,
landscaping, buffering, etc., that comes into play and make sure that can fit within the
envelope of the height.
Most projects probably will not be able to accommodate 92 units per acre due to fit,
unless there’s a really tall structure in close proximity (one mile) and it would be hard
to get parking levels and all the units constructed within the height envelope.
Chairman Hruby said financially, if you’re building a multi-story parking garage and 40% of
the units are affordable, you’re not going to be able to pencil that one out.
Mr. Bosi said we’ll definitely be dictating as to what and how much. They can take advantage
of the allowances of the additional density and then it’s simply an SDP.
Mr. Bosi continued his presentation, telling the AHAC:
Another parallel issue is temporary. Think about it in terms of how the application
would be for the City of Naples. There’s another bill, Senate Bill 250, which says
since the date of Hurricane Ian to October 1, 2024, no jurisdiction, municipality or
county can approve any new, more restrictive land-development code regulations.
The City of Naples is proposing many modifications to its Land Development Code
right now and is going through a lot of consternation over it. He’s not sure they
recognize that Senate Bill 250 will put whatever decision they make on hold before
they can implement those.
The City of Naples now has City Council sign off on SDPs. The requirement from the
Live Local Bill is you get your intensity and your height that’s given to you, but you
still have to go through the SDP process. In Naples, the SDP process is now political.
They’ve created a conundrum that they’ll probably struggle with for a while, but we’re
going to meet with the administration to try to provide clarity within our
Administrative Code on how these projects may be able to move forward to take
advantage of what Live Local Act says and creating rules for how that would move
forward, what you’re entitled to with density and height, and then the SDP process.
The County Housing Plan recognized that commercial and industrial mixed-use were
areas that were ripe for affordable housing by right, and that’s what the state did. The
state recognized that scenario, that the intensities associated with those land uses
traditionally have a higher trip generation than what’s generated by residential
projects, so allowing residential to move forward without a public hearing is not as
egregious of a step in isolation as it would have been because the intensity associated
with residential development is less in terms of traffic generation than what
commercial or industrial properties provide for.
Because of that thinking, the county and state were both in line. Our amendments
mirror the same permissions in the same focus area that the Live Local Act provides.
He’s not the interpreter of the state statute. The court system is. Within the first year of
this process, there probably will be a tremendous amount of litigation from
jurisdictions and counties to work out kinks to determine how the act will be applied
because anybody who reads the statute has found a lot of disagreement.
Some consider it straightforward, while others don’t. We may interpret it in a different
way. There’s a lot of ambiguity that will be applied to the act and how it moves
forward.
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We’re going to craft potential ways to move forward, going to go to the Board of
County Commissioners to ensure they agree this is the right application for how we
can move forward.
Chairman Hruby said there seem to be three options that our development community can
follow, not only Live Local Act, but Sen. Bill 1339 and our four initiatives, when they become
part of the Land Development Code, so we have a lot of flexibility to move from one to
another, depending on what makes the most sense.
Mr. Bosi agreed. There are more avenues now than there have ever been.
Vice Chair Faron asked if they could talk about House Bill 1339. She understood it’s
described as the silver-bullet option. If she’s a developer who wants to build 250 units and she
has various regulations, how does HB 1339 play into what’s recently been passed by the BBC
and the Live Local Act? Is it even a tool anymore? How would the BCC use that?
Mr. Giblin said it can be used because this only applies to commercial, industrial and mixed-
use. House Bill 1339 can be used anywhere and it’s for a county-initiated special project.
Mr. Giblin described the differences:
Senate Bill 102, the Live Local Act, is like an anti-NIMBY law on steroids. It’s
YIMBY, “yes, in my backyard,” and we’ve seen this initiative take place on the west
coast and move this way. This is a direct result of decades of affordable housing
developers getting beat up in every local Planning Commission, city hall and Board of
County Commissioners meeting when they try to build affordable housing. They made
their plea to the state legislature and the governor – and this is the result.
Basically, if the density was good enough for million-dollar condos at Metropolitan
Naples and if the height was good enough for the Towers on Isle of Capri, then why
isn’t it good enough for affordable housing?
Chairman Hruby noted that it kind of levels the playing field.
Mr. Giblin continued his explanation.
That’s the bottom line here in the Live Local Act. It doesn’t allow affordable housing
to have any additional height or density than the county already has seen fit to approve
for other types of projects.
We’re seeing that play out regularly in Collier, when we have 100 concerned citizens
at public meetings who are always anti-affordable housing. This levels the playing
field.
Vice Chair Faron noted that he said it’s all going to get straightened out as it gets applied.
There could be lawsuits and court cases, etc. Is there any concern on the part of staff on the
murkiness that exists right now before it all starts? Or is it going to stifle some development
because people want to wait to see what happens. What’s your thought on how this works in
the meantime? A developer would want to get a shovel on the ground every day.
Mr. Giblin said that in the three weeks to a month since the Live Local Act passed, he’s been
getting calls from land-use attorneys, developers and builders asking how to apply, what’s the
process, who do I call in the county to start? Our response has been, No. 1, it’s not effective
until July 1 and, No. 2, we’re learning it as we go and we will get there with the process, but
we’re not there yet. We need to figure it out. Mike’s advice to people walking in the front door
and asking our front desk is to do a Zoning-Verification Letter to verify the highest building
within a mile, what the density is, and then that can start the process rolling.
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Chairman Hruby said it’s interesting that many folks are stepping up. This isn’t really
discouraging.
Ms. Waller said it’s good.
Mr. Harney said it validates what we’ve been working on here locally, that builders are out
there, they’ve been waiting for a change and they’re ready. He asked Mike about the
recommendation to the BCC to approve the petition that gets sent to the state. Has the state
DEO received our four amendments for review?
Mr. Bosi said yes, they transmitted them within a week of that.
Mr. Bosi elaborated, telling the AHAC:
We don’t anticipate that we’re going to have any comments from the state.
It’s an issue where they were trying to promote additional affordable housing. That’s
something the state has been very supportive of, especially with the Live Local Act.
What the state is offering almost outsizes our initiatives, so he can’t imagine the
county will get comments other than a “no comment” from state agencies.
From that, we’ll take the LDC amendments associated with those Growth
Management Plan Amendments and take them to the DSAC-LDR subcommittee this
afternoon. They’ll go before the full DSAC in the next couple months and then will
come back for adoption by the Planning Commission. The Board of County
Commissioners will have the LDC Amendments that will implement the GMP
Amendments, which will be second fiddle because they’ve already been heard once by
the Planning Commission and the BCC. They’ll focus on the LDC implementation
language for these initiatives. That likely will occur this fall.
Chairman Hruby said moving ahead with that process toward the LDC amendments while
the state is reviewing the Growth Management Plan Amendments is good. Any other
comments?
Commissioner Hall said that when he hears that the Live Local Act gives tax-credit equity as
an incentive, how does that apply if he’s a builder and gets tax credit equity?
Mr. Giblin said Michael Puchalla, executive director of the Collier County Land Trust, will
address that.
Mr. Puchalla told the AHAC:
The Florida Housing Finance Corp. manages both the 4% and 9% tax-credit programs,
which have always been the No. 1 tool for affordable development. If a developer isn’t
going to be charging market rates, it gives the equity needed to make their deal work,
so they’re encouraging corporations to add additional money.
They’re creating this incentive for a corporate entity to get tax credits to invest their
additional money into the sale program. It’s a mixture of the state having a tax-credit
program, but allowing Florida’s corporate entities to invest an additional $100 million
into the sale program, the State Department Incentive Loan Program.
That program offers financing at 1% for up to 15 years for a developer doing
affordable housing, so they’re increasing the amount of money available in the sale
program, which is huge for the affordable community, allowing corporations to invest
up to $100 million into that program.
In exchange for that investment, they’re getting tax credits for corporate income tax
and some of their sales tax.
Commissioner Hall said as a business owner or corporation, he can save actual tax
dollars by putting them in there and then the fund that he put it into is XX percent. It’s
debited out or subsidizes the deal to make it work.
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Mr. Puchalla said the state Housing Finance Agency in Tallahassee is managing that and will
be responsible for creating and managing the program. The state also is giving an extra $150
million a year for 10 years into sale, so they’ve got money going in now. They’re saying we
can get up to an extra $100 million from corporations, so they’re increasing that pot of money
for the development community.
Commissioner Hall asked how a developer would tap into that and maximize.
Mr. Puchalla told the AHAC:
There’s a yearly RFA process through Florida Housing Finance and developers know
when they can apply. They’ll probably have special RFAs and there will be
announcements from Florida Housing Finance Corp. when they’re ready to say they
have a certain amount of dollars. They’ve even had additional money from Hurricane
Ian, the Residential Rental Loan Program. That was a special announcement.
The development community knows they have workshops in Tallahassee where they
can listen and get feedback. Once they’re ready, they can open up an RFA similar to
what we do locally for our SHIP CDBG home funding. That’s available at the state
level.
There’s also a Community Contribution Tax Credit Program. If you have a local
project that’s a bit smaller, you also could fund that through the DEO to get a tax
credit. They had up to $14.5 million per year available and are increasing that to $25
million at the state level. If it’s a small project, you could go to our local corporate
entities to ask if they’re interested in funding it. You’d get a 50% tax credit if you put
your money into this type of project and a developer could gain some units that they
might find important while getting a tax credit.
It’s a do-good to get-good concept, a win-win, an increase for a local tax credit-type of
project.
Commissioner Hall said that helps. He’s out talking to people and others come to him to ask
what they can do and how they could apply this. That will help him explain it better.
Chairman Hruby said he gathered that those were a supplement to the presentation. You took
each LDC amendment, identified the parcels, the number of acres and maximum density we
could get and calculated the potential that would be out there – and it was phenomenal. Did
you have about 27,000 market units and 14,000 affordable if we build everything out?
Mr. Bosi said that’s if you build everything out and there’s a lot of redevelopment along
density lines and transit lines.
Chairman Hruby said that with your understanding of the county, planning and the
development community, if you had a crystal ball, how much of this do you think is reality
versus potential? We’ve had Empowerment Zones around major intersections for years and
had an affordable-housing bonus there, but nobody participated. Do you think this is a
different situation? Do you think developers will participate now?
Mr. Bosi told the AHAC:
15-20% of those total estimates probably can be realized.
Planning attorney Rich Yovanovich felt the Live Local Act did nothing for his clients
because they’re traditional builders who don’t think about where the benefit is.
For more traditional affordable housing providers who take advantage of tax breaks
and government financing, we’ll look at that and the height and density allowances
we provide for to make their projects work in a more economical way. The pro forma
and performance limitations might not be able to resonate with the densities allowed
for with the type of amenities and what this market demands.
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What we’re probably going to need to experience over the next couple of years is to
try to attract more affordable-housing builders like Rural Neighborhoods. That might
be critical to seeing some of these projects move forward with maximum efficiencies.
There will be more affordable housing providers because we’re doing it now up to
22% with local builders. They do it because they need to get increased density.
They’ll give you 22% and make it work, subsidizing their market rates off their
affordable housing units.
The advantages of Senate Bill 102 sit within affordable housing providers and having
the densities and intensities coupled with tax credits. If you target some lower-
income levels, you get property tax abatements within the Live Local Act, another
potential cost savings that can stretch the performance more.
There will be much to come over the next 1½ years. We need to have a robust or at
least an effort at marketing to affordable-housing builders who aren’t in this market
yet. We’re creating opportunities with the Surtax Subcommittee, the surtax money
and filters we’ve created to tell them to bring us projects, here’s our scoring system.
You can use the four county initiatives or the Live Local Act. If they could bring an
idea that marries those, we’re going to start attracting different providers who haven’t
been in this market yet and that could yield additional benefits.
Chairman Hruby said that’s huge because he deals with many housing developers
nationwide, trying to encourage them to come to Collier County. They used to look at it, look
at the numbers and the complexity of developing here and say, “No thanks. There are better
ways of doing business.” Now that we have them coming to the table, and if this encourages
more and there’s more competition, that’s a positive.
Mr. Bosi said if you think about with the Community Land Trust and the $20 million we set
aside for land acquisition with the entitlements that are provided for within the Live Local Act,
you could have interest from developers who haven’t touched this market to see if they can get
land that’s made available. We can couple this with our tax credits and the property tax
abatements that are provided for and they can pencil together projects that could have a
significant gain in terms of adding to the supply of affordable housing in this market.
Vice Chair Faron told the AHAC:
She spent 11 years on the board of a not-for-profit affordable-housing developer in
Chicago, Milwaukee and Madison, Wisconsin and looked at pro formas when she was
on the Project Review Committee and the Finance Committee. This will help.
But you still have some of the same common denominator issues any developer has –
construction costs, construction loans, turning to permanent loan financing and the
high-interest rate environment. This is not the end-all, be-all. We still have external
pressures that any developer does.
We could try to start to control big influences like construction costs.
She drove to Punta Gorda last Friday to look at CoFutures’ prototype of its
prefabricated steel-panel housing, which Commissioner Hall brought to us last month.
It’s a remarkable product. They have the process down to the minutes and seconds of
how to build a house, a tremendous process and efficiency. But can they scale right
and can other companies like that scale to the extent that we can encourage that kind
of technology in Collier County?
She asked what it would take for CoFutures to come to Collier County. He said impact
fees and the cost of land are problems, but there are some things that some of this will
offset. Taking a look at the other side, new technology and building, some of that will
take a long time to come online and CoFutures is still building its factory. It’s not yet
scalable, but it was an interesting tour and she wondered how it would apply in Collier
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County, if they could put up 36 houses in 30 days.
There’s a multi-use component where they can build two-, three- and four-story
buildings faster, better and more energy efficient, which helps offset utility and
maintenance costs, etc. The combination of those is what we need, whether it’s
CoFutures or another builder, that kind of use as pro formas break on operating costs
on a building going forward. It’s not just construction costs. They break on the
operating costs, especially in affordable housing, where it’s a higher-intensity
residential use. It’s got more social issues typically assigned to it with tax credit work,
so we can solve some of this, but we still have ongoing pressures from other issues.
c. Golden Gate Golf Course Development Update – C. Giblin
Mr. Giblin told the AHAC:
The AHAC requested that we update you on where we are with the affordable-
housing development on the Golden Gate Golf Course.
We’re planning a couple of agenda items that are going to the BCC for their next
meeting. The executive summary is in your packet.
The BCC went out for an Invitation To Negotiate for a developer to build affordable
housing on the portion of the golf course property in December 2019.
In November 2020, Rural Neighborhoods was officially approved and the developer
agreement was approved by the Board of County Commissioners.
Since then, the property had to go through a Growth Management Plan Amendment
and a PUD rezone to change it from a golf course to apartment-complex residential
and various other uses that are divvied up on the old golf course property.
That took place and finished its process last year. During that time, Rural
Neighborhoods was drafting architectural plans, a land-use plan, getting contractors
on board and seeking financing.
They’ve applied to Florida Housing Finance through some of the programs Michael
mentioned. The tax credit programs occur yearly and there’s typically an RFA
(Request For Applications) released during a yearly cycle from Florida Housing
Finance Corp. The project wasn’t successful in its first round, but was successful in
its next round and they have a funding commitment for the essential-service
personnel housing portion of the development, 250 family units.
There’s another component, an additional 150 senior housing units project that’s
going through the process now and he’s seeking funding. He’s close to wrapping up a
funding deal for the items we’re bringing to the BCC at its next meeting.
One is included in your packet, a few slight modifications to the original developer
agreement. One is to reduce the lease area by just under two acres. One of the
requirements when we redevelop a golf course into residential is that there be a 75-
foot buffer around the entire old golf course area to buffer existing residential from
what once was a golf course and which now will be multi-family housing.
Rural Neighborhoods asked that the strip be removed from its leased area and remain
with the county for ongoing maintenance. That made sense to our Real Property staff
because we’re going to be maintaining the balance of the property anyway. One of
the minor tweaks is to remove the buffer strip from Rural Neighborhoods’
maintenance to county maintenance.
The next clarification is that some of the income targets in the agreement have been
shifted. We’ve been successful in having them lower their target incomes and rents
from what was originally approved. Originally there were some units at 140% and a
greater mix of units at 120 AMI. We’ve been successful in reducing that and having
them produce a more affordable product. That has to do with the fact that as time
evolved, interest rates and construction costs went up. There’s been a need for Rural
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Neighborhoods to apply for more grant funding, which comes with requirements that
you target the lower incomes. Some of that has been driving the target incomes of the
residents.
It also clarifies the construction timeline. In the previous version, it was dependent on
the county completing the Growth Management Plan Amendment and the rezone.
Those have been completed. Now the only outstanding item is for his financing
commitment, which we’re going to give him. The draft says 12 months, but we’re
probably going to give him six months to add urgency and move it to completion.
The other two companion items are the changes being proposed for the developer
agreement. They’re going to be mirrored in the land lease as they’ve tried to fund the
project and fill the funding gaps. He also applied for and will be awarded a $1.5
million county SHIP loan to help fill some gaps. In total, it’s an $82 million project
for 250 units, just the ESP housing side, not the senior side. County sources that are
going to help fund this are the land. That portion is valued at about $5.5 million.
We’re going to be giving an impact fee waiver valued at about $5 million and the
$1.5 million SHIP loan.
Two other sources will come into play and they’re going to be blended both on the
ESP side and the senior housing side, which is going to be receiving a roughly $2
million state HOME grant, from the federal HOME program, and about a $4 million
grant from the Coronavirus State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds (SLFRF)
program. It’s money from the Treasury Department that involved the coronavirus that
can be used. Now that the coronavirus pandemic is largely gone and paid for, the
Treasury has a lot of idle money sitting on its hands, so they’ve consistently been
increasing allowable uses. One is affordable housing, so there’s $4 million from that,.
In addition, this project came to us through a partnership with the Community
Foundation of Collier County for a $10 million grant. Those are the public and non-
profit sources that are helping fund it. The rest of the $82 million is up to him finding
financing, which he’s well on the way to doing.
Mr. Harney noted he said impact-fee waiver, rather than deferral, so those impact fees would
be removed?
Mr. Giblin said the county’s impact fee program has a 10-year deferral for rental housing. As
the developer plugged that into its pro forma, it was nice, but it wasn’t. He still had to pay
those fees, either over 10 years or have a balloon payment in 10 years. In negotiations
directly with the County Manager’s Office (Amy Patterson used to run our impact-fee
department, so she’s probably the most knowledgeable person in the county regarding impact
fees), she has sought outside legal guidance and thanks to some changes in state law, she’s
confident that through the use of a land-use restriction agreement for 99 years, we can waive
those. We’ve already owned the land for 99 years and we have those restrictions in place.
Mr. Harney do you foresee the possibility that impact-fee waivers might be available for
other projects in the future? That’s important. We’ve never seen that before, right?
Vice Chair Faron said during discussions about that project, she understood there was still
an outstanding environmental issue involving the golf course and a discussion on who’s
going to pay for the study and remediation. Has it been resolved so he can move ahead once
he gets his financing?
Ms. Cook said as far as the outstanding environmental issue, they’re still conducting soil
testing and the county is behind all of it. They’re paying for the entire golf course.
Vice Chair Faron asked if it’s necessary, would the remediation be paid by the county, or
who would pay for that?
Mr. Giblin said he spoke with the developer yesterday and he indicated he was hopeful on
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this issue, so he was surprised to hear his optimism. They’ve done the testing on the golf
course site and found chemical infiltration, but what he said was they found it virtually at all
depths. It wasn’t just on the surface, it was on the depth. He has DEP guidance to do mirror
tests at a nearby school site or a government-owned facility nearby. If they find similar levels
in those tests, then what was found on the golf course may be deemed background and he
may be on the way toward a less involved mitigation.
Chairman Hruby told the AHAC:
He’s confused about the $5.5 million worth of land being put into a land lease and
it’s going to be in trust.
The way he reads the paragraph, it appears the county is going to reimburse itself
from the surtax fund for that land. He was under the impression that wasn’t the
intention of the $20 million. His understanding is if you had county owned land and
you donate it, you don’t get reimbursed. What’s going on?
This committee has constantly been saying that $20 million shouldn’t be for dealing.
We heard rumblings about it being used for reimbursing the purchase of the golf
course. The AHAC was pretty much advising against that.
If you’re going to take $5.5 million dollars to reimburse yourself, you go into the
Housing Trust Fund, not General Revenue. No. 2, there’s a larger policy decision
here about how you use county land. If county land is going to affordable housing
uses, it should be donated and not reimbursed, whether it’s philanthropic or our
penny tax. As a committee, we should talk about what kind of policy should be
established for the use of county land.
That’s taking 25% of our valuable $20 million to reimburse the county, which isn’t a
great public image right now.
He’s not sure how the AHAC feels, so he wanted to bring it up for discussion.
Mr. Harney said several other projects we’ve talked about have been taking some part of a
park land like that as part of something the school district is involved in. Would they expect
to be reimbursed when an affordable developer comes in?
Mr. Giblin said this wasn’t land that was sitting in surplus and owned by the county, like the
parks. This was purchased specifically for housing, so infrastructure funding was available.
Those decisions were made by the prior County Manager and county administration who are
no longer here. At the time, this was contemplated to fund at least some of the golf course
acquisition.
Chairman Hruby said he’s not saying you have to unwind it because it may be too far down
the road. But it’s a red flag that maybe there needs to be a more aggressive policy for the use
of any land the county buys or owns. That’s what he wants to discuss. Look how many
millions of dollars we contribute for conservation land and put in trust and nobody gets
reimbursed. Why can’t we do the same for affordable housing?
Ms. Waller asked if it was originally set up that any land the county sold or got reimbursed
on that funds would automatically go into the Housing Trust Fund. Her recollection is that if
the county sold land, the funds acquired from selling that land would go into the Housing
Trust Fund.
Mr. Giblin said that would occur if a piece of land was bought with impact fees, and 20
years later, it was sold. The original funding source gets paid back if there’s any excess.
Ms. Waller said she’s always said they were going to figure out a way to get the $20 million
to go to the golf course. That $5.5 million that you’re going to get, what is that considered?
Mr. Giblin said the county is looking at it like the county is already in the negative $20
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million. It was $25 million, so we’re already in the hole and we want to reimburse ourselves.
Mr. Harney said that begs the question for establishing long-term, regular replenishment of
the $20 million Trust Fund. If you take 25% of it away, something else may come along. At
this point, there is no established annual replenishment program set up for the fund.
Vice Chair Faron told the AHAC:
She wasn’t certain she objected to that. The county didn’t have to purchase that land.
It could have gone to any use.
This predates her involvement or knowledge of it. Imagine if that parcel had been
sold to the highest bidder and was used for something else and there was no
affordable housing there or limited affordable housing.
The county made a substantial investment in that land. The $5.5 million, if it swaps
funds and goes from the surtax fund back to whatever fund it comes from, the county
is still making a substantial investment. The $5.5 million is being reimbursed. The
county has still paid how many hundred million dollars for it, so she doesn’t see an
issue. She’d have a larger problem if it were a piece of county land that’s always
been county land for a long time that wasn’t saved from being something else. This
golf course was saved and then you’re reimbursing, charging a fee for something for
that use of the land, and you’re using the surtax fund to reimburse the county.
This feels different. She’s uncertain how the funds move and where this $5.5 million
goes to. If the surtax fund writes a check theoretically to the county where it goes to
the general fund, etc., but that frees up money for other things. She has no objection.
It’s different from if it were regular county land sitting around a long time. The
county saved this land from being something that may not have supported affordable
housing. She appreciates that the county wants to get some money back to reinvest in
something else.
Chairman Hruby responded:
His point is more policy driven and we’re dealing with policy. He’s making an issue
of this because there was a reason. What happens the next time if 50 years ago they
paid $1 million for this park?
We need to think about it in this environment, in this marketplace, how the county
deals with land it may purchase or may already own. What’s the policy for it? Are
you going to get reimbursed? Where does that money go? Should it go back into the
Housing Trust Fund?
He’s not trying to unwind this because the deal is done, but it begs the question of
how do you deal with these things in the future? That’s an issue we may want to ask
county commissioners. “How do you feel about this? What’s its policy?”
That may have implications for future affordable-housing development. If you’re
using your own land, where does this land rest when you’re putting it in trust? How
can you be assured these projects will mainly be maintained as affordable housing.
He wanted to discuss that, not that you can’t take that $5.5 million and reimburse
yourself. That deal is done.
Commissioner Hall told the AHAC:
He’s thinking about it as if it were his property. If he has property and wanted to give
and he wants to sell it to someone and they purchase it, then he has money he needs
to do something with. He can put it back in the Housing Trust Fund, pay off debt and
do whatever.
If he has property he doesn’t want to sell but wants it to be used for a greater purpose,
then he can lease the property and he’d have monthly cash flow coming back to him
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that he could do anything with. He could reimburse a fund that he used to purchase
his property or use it however he needs to.
If he sells the property, it’s gone. However, if he sells the property to a non-profit that
pays no taxes for the use of that land it’s being used for a good purpose, but that land
is never producing back to him. But at least you know there’s no ad valorem taxes
coming back for the public good. There is cash flow from the lease coming back.
It’s not like it’s a policy set in stone. As Cormac said a few meetings ago, it’s on the
deal side, so everything should be looked at to see what makes good sense.
Chairman Hruby asked if he thought there should be some guardrails as to where it goes.
Commissioner Hall said the purpose is to incentivize people to be able to build houses. In
doing that, what if the county wanted to finance the whole thing and take principal and
interest payments? Then you can’t cry foul because the interest coming back to the county is
not being used to go back into a Housing Trust Fund. The county is creating money for that
purpose.
Chairman Hruby said that’s another formula that actually works because it does take the
cost of land out of the equation for the developer and you get some return on your
investment.
Commissioner Hall said you get beat up as an investor, you get beat up for being the rich
guy, you’re taking advantage of everybody. No, you’re allowing people to live in a place that
they want and love. If you’re the one that’s taking the risk, you’re not the bad guy, you’re the
one that’s creating that. The county is not always the bad guy in those situations.
Planning Commissioner Shea said he wondered if they would be having such a big
discussion if they were only dealing with $20 million and don’t know where the rest of it’s
coming from. Are we going to create some kind of sustainable funding, in which case these
issues won’t be as critical as this appears to be.
Commissioner Hall said somebody could come along right now, buy property and spend the
whole $20 million and it’s gone. But if thoughts were put into the deal to where it could come
back and replenish it, that’s a better deal. The end game is the same. The assets get built.
Chairman Hruby said on the Land Trust side, we’re looking at doing exactly that with
donations coming from foundations where they won’t be grants. They will be very low-
interest loans over a long term with a possible forgiveness aspect at the end of the deal, but it
will take the high cost of the land out of the equation.
Commissioner Hall said another thought he had while Mr. Puchalla was talking is that the
state has programs that offer tax credits for corporations and we’re preempted with the local
decisions. What if the county created its own fund that corporations within the county or
within the region could donate back and get the same tax credit? Then we can use our money.
We don’t have to apply once a year for that money. What if we had our own private capital
funding that offered tax credits?
Vice Chair Faron told the AHAC:
There’s something to be said for that because, having worked as a board member on
the tax-credit side, it’s an incredibly competitive process to get tax credits. It’s not
like you just show up, apply and you get them.
You’re scored and it’s competitive, so it’s not easy. Tax-credit financing is one of the
hardest sources of capital to obtain. It’s important and it’s the major way a lot of
these low-income housing communities are developed because it sometimes offers
dollar-for-dollar tax credits right off the top of somebody’s income tax.
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Insurance companies and banks buy these tax credits to offset their federal income
taxes. The concept works because people want to reduce their taxes, so it’s an
interesting concept about what else could be done at the county level.
But it’s difficult to get these tax credits and takes a long time It’s very creative.
Florida is one of the most competitive environments for tax credits. Illinois is tough
and Wisconsin is a little easier, so you’re at the mercy of that process.
Commissioner Hall said his point is if we did it locally, it would eliminate a lot of that
competition going after those funds and it would incentivize local business.
Mr. Harney thanked him.
Chairman Hruby said the subcommittee could address the issue of policy for the use of land
and resources on the county level. Maybe it’s something we want to discuss and make a
recommendation to the full AHAC committee to take to the BCC.
Action Item: Address the purchasing policy and county resources at the next meeting.
d. The Haven GMPA & PUD – Proposed BCC Date May 23, 2023 – C. Giblin
Mr. Giblin updated the AHAC on the Haven GMPA and PUD:
He noted that the AHAC asked to be brought up to speed on projects that are working
their way through the system and heading to the Planning Commission or the BCC.
This is a Growth Management Plan Amendment with an accompanying PUD
amendment. It’s at the corner of Airport Road and Orange Blossom Drive between the
Bear Creek Apartments and The Carlisle senior-living facility, kind of behind the
Italian American Club.
They’re proposing to build 336 rental apartments and in exchange for that, they are
proposing to designate 22.6% of their overall units as affordable housing. Split
between 38 units rented at 80% or less of median and another 38 units at 100% or less
of median. That’s 72 units out of the 336 that are proposed to be long-term affordable
housing for 30 years, monitored by the county yearly with income-limit checks
through our monitoring section in Community & Human Services.
They went to the Planning Commission last week and received a 6-2 recommendation
of approval to the Board of County Commissioners. It was an all-day hearing and
probably over 50 public speakers, with about 100 people there. All but one speaker,
the general manager of The Carlisle next door, spoke in opposition. All the
neighborhood opposition came from residents along Orange Blossom Drive, where the
county library sits on the corner. There’s also the Villages of Monterey and Mill Run
and other PUDs. They opposed it due to density and traffic, even height.
The developer made some concessions throughout the design process where what they
proposed now does not feed any traffic out to Orange Blossom Drive. The only access
in and out is off Airport Road and a shared access with The Carlisle.
It’s scheduled for a hearing before the Board of County Commissioners on May 23.
All the residents along Orange Blossom Drive wore orange shirts. There was a sea of
100 people sitting in front of him waiting for their turn to talk, so that will occur
during the BCC meeting.
If anyone wants to go and learn more about the project or support it, you’re welcome
to attend.
Chairman Hruby said it’s ideal because that affordable housing component can house some
of The Carlisle’s staff and it’s within walking distance.
Mr. Giblin said The Carlisle’s director attended the meeting via Zoom to just monitor it. By
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the end of the public speakers, he was the last one still there and commissioners called on him.
He said he wasn’t planning on speaking but said it would be helpful for his employees to have
housing next door. Part of the deal offers additional employee parking to The Carlisle because
they work on shift and are sometimes double-staffed, so they need additional employee
parking. He said it would be helpful for some employees to live closer to the facility.
Mr. Harney said this would seem to be the model of what we’ve been talking about for
months, building affordable units next to where people are working, whether it’s putting that
affordable building into a shopping center building and near the hospital, wherever that it. This
is what we want people to do and if this is successful, and it appears that it will be based on
the changes that have been made, this can easily be pointed to as the direction we want to go
in. This is how it can be done. It’s great to see.
Mr. Giblin said this is the model of the recent Growth Management Plan Amendment, with a
combination PUD amendment at the same time seeking additional residential densities in
exchange for providing for a community need, which, in this case, is affordable housing at
about 11% low income.
Ms. Waller asked if traffic on Orange Blossom was the biggest objection.
Mr. Giblin said that, and height.
Mr. Bosi told the AHAC:
The height is 60-feet maximum.
One of the things we pointed out within the public hearing process is the environment
in which this is being proposed is that it’s near Bear Creek to the south, which in the
90s was an affordable housing project developed at 12 units per acre.
All four of those quadrants on the intersection are non-residential, but Orange
Blossom residents were portraying the area as a residential community. We said that is
most certainly not designated and allocated as residential. It’s non-residential, with
higher intensity residential units sitting to the south and then below those two
residential units is a string of commercial industrial zoning. There are two Activity
Centers within 1-1½ miles of this location, so economic opportunities are pretty
prevalent within area.
This is the model of what we’re trying to promote, higher-density allocation within
areas of high employment, so staff was pleased with the recommendation that we
received from the Planning Commission.
We know we’re going to have opposition by residents before the Board of County
Commissioners, but we feel that close to 25% of the units are going to be dedicated to
affordable housing. That’s significant. We think it has a community benefit, so we’re
for approval.
If anyone wants to show up to provide another voice of advocacy for affordable
housing, it would be welcomed. The majority of speakers will be speaking against it.
Chairman Hruby said there’s nothing wrong with this being in your neighborhood. It will be
attractive and support people. We need to be working in our neighborhoods and be a service.
This could be a model.
Mr. Giblin said it’s one of several that have come in and there are more in the pipeline
following the same model that are going through Neighborhood Information Meetings and
public meetings now.
Ms. Waller suggested they send a letter recommending approval to the BCC.
Mr. Giblin said that would be up to the AHAC.
Chairman Hruby asked if the AHAC have an opinion on that?
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Planning Commissioner Shea said you’re only hearing one side, so you’re voting on your
side and not on their side. How do you vote on something if you don’t hear both sides?
Vice Chair Faron said this is what they discussed in the Strategic Plan Subcommittee, an
endorsement. What does that really mean? It’s important to have a group of volunteers
appointed by the BCC who say we support the concept and we’re not looking at the whole
deal, that’s not our job. We’re looking at the policy of allowing a project in this area. AHAC
has a role in endorsing it for the reasons that it supports another 72 units of affordable housing.
Maybe it’s ceremonial, but that’s OK. It’s ceremonial to show up at one of these meetings and
support it. There is a role for AHAC to have an endorsement option.
Planning Commissioner Shea said if that’s the case, then anything that has affordable
housing, we’re going to automatically endorse it?
Vice Chair Faron said no, staff thinks this is an important issue for the county. You have to
rely on staff expertise, all the factors we just talked about and support staff recommendations.
It’s the support of the project.
Ms. Waller said when we speak at the meeting, we should go with the consensus of the entire
meeting. We can’t do it both ways. We should have the AHAC vote as a committee to do it on
May 23. We need to make a decision. If you go by yourself, you can represent your personal
views, but if we vote, we can advocate for the AHAC.
Chairman Hruby asked how others felt.
Mr. Lyon said we should be in support. Our role is to advocate the best we can and with us,
there are numbers and an organized committee versus an individual speaking up for it.
Chairman Hruby said he’s right. We’re advocates, we’re volunteers. When we’re advocates,
we recommend to the county commissioners, just as that group of citizens or advocates wants
to protect their community. It’s the job of county commissioners to weigh this at the dais and
decide. They’re hearing the community and staff. It’s not our job to weigh that. It’s our job to
advocate for what we think is right. If Cormac said this is in the middle of a gated community
and neighbors are up in arms, it would not be the right place to put affordable housing. But
maybe we want the letter to say why we’re supporting it – because it’s in a properly zoned
area, supports jobs for a local industry and is a model we’d like to see.
Mr. Bosi told the AHAC:
You could endorse the policy decision of the Board of County Commissioners.
If someone is asking for additional density with a Growth Management Plan, as this is,
there’s a policy decision behind it. The policy decision is 22.6% of that additional
density will be set aside for affordable housing, so you could support that policy
decision without getting into specifics of the dynamics of what they said and who’s for
and against.
But you are supporting the board on a policy decision the board has made, not
explicitly, but through their actions.
If you’re going to increase residential density through a GMP Amendment, 22.6% of
those additional units are going to be allocated to some form of income-restricted
housing and that’s what we’ve been operating under for the past 1½ years.
The AHAC can get outside the politics of the issue and support the continuation of the
policy of providing for affordable housing when an applicant is asking for a Growth
Management Plan to increase residential density above what’s allocated.
Chairman Hruby said you’re saying we should recommend this because it’s consistent with
ongoing policy for increased density and also is a GMP Amendment.
Mr. Buntzman questioned if it’s really providing affordable housing for the people who work
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at the senior center. He’s not sure many of the employees make $80,000 a year. Most are
making a lot less, about $40,000-$45,000, so it’s not really providing affordable housing for
employees working next door. But it’s a good project and should be done. He likes the idea of
supporting a policy that says if you’re increasing density, you provide affordable housing.
Commissioner Hall said having a voice as a committee is possibly louder than an individual
voice. Our four initiatives require at least 30% affordable housing. State law now says 40%
affordable housing. You could beat your drum as a committee and say we would like to see a
bigger percentage of that project be affordable for the density and the changes, instead of just
saying the word “affordable” is in there and there’s a 22% token, and Planning Commission
approved it You could toot your horn a bit. It would come from the AHAC.
Planning Commissioner Shea said that’s why it was a 4-2 decision. They weren’t getting as
much versus the impact to the community. That’s the decision you’re constantly making. What
is the overall community benefit? What is the overall impact to the local community? And it
seemed like they weren’t giving enough. That’s why he voted against it.
Mr. Harney said it seems we’re in a transitional period now because the Live Local Act and
our four amendments aren’t in effect yet. In the meantime, there’s this project and a decision
has to be made. Once the Live Local Act and the four amendments are fully effective, then we
can talk about that 40%. We can’t today because there’s nothing out there in regulations, so in
the meantime, we can endorse this project because that’s what the rules are today.
Planning Commissioner Shea said they get more worried about what the commissioner is
saying in the future.
Ms. Waller said she agrees, but we should just try to focus and look ahead and say, OK, even
though that’s what it says, 27%, we could ask for our 30% because we know that’s what we do
want. That’s what we’ve been asking for all along.
Mr. Harney said the department has been after 22% until things change.
Mr. Bosi said they’ve put the allocation at 22.6%. That’s what we’re asking for when we have
a GMP Amendment seeking residential density. He cautioned the AHAC not to snatch defeat
from the jaws of victory. Going in and saying you want more to a proposal heading to the
Board of County Commissioners could throw a monkey wrench into the process.
Mr. Harney said that would be fair when we’re talking to developers coming to Cormac and
they want to do something new. We should tell them that by the time their project is done,
that’s the direction we’re going in and that’s where we’ll be.
Mr. Giblin provided background on the 22.6% requirement:
One of the first developments that went through this was Hacienda Lakes. They were
going through negotiations on the fly before the BCC, which was considering asking
for 25%-35%. The developer opened up their pro forma, their books. They told us this
is what we can do to make a profit, a financeable project for our bank.
As a result, 22.6% was built into that. The developer had a certain land cost in
Hacienda, costs for development, construction, time and interest rates. This was
several years ago, so some factors may have gotten worse since then. Maybe his land
costs were different for that site, so maybe in the future look at this in a holistic way.
Since Hacienda, every deal has been based on the mechanics of that deal.
Mr. Harney said by the time they get anything done, we’ll be operating under the state or
county rules, so we’ll tell them that’s where we’re going. But for anybody who’s this far along
in the pipeline, the rules are 22.6% of the total number of units and the percentage of AMI.
Planning Commissioner Shea said two commissioners who voted against at the Planning
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Commission meeting felt that we were giving away much more. He gets worried about what
Commissioner Hall was saying. Just because it’s affordable housing doesn’t mean it’s the right
place. That’s the Planning Commission’s dilemma. The challenge is that he knows it affects
developers’ pro forma. We feared we were giving away much more.
Chairman Hruby said in our jurisdiction, with AMI so high, that’s market rate in most of the
state, a high market rate. What do we want to do? Are we in favor of sending a letter stating
that we’re supporting this because it’s consistent with existing policy for GMP amendments
for higher density and we want to direct staff to issue a letter to the Board of County
Commissioners?
Ms. Waller made a motion to direct staff to send a letter to the BCC to say the AHAC supports
The Haven at North Naples’ GMPA and PUD because it’s consistent with existing policy for
GMP Amendments for higher density. The motion was seconded by Planning Commissioner
Shea. The motion passed unanimously, 8-0.
Staff Action Item: Staff was directed to draft a letter to the Board of County Commissioners
to say the AHAC supports The Haven at North Naples’s GMPA and PUD because it’s
consistent with existing policy for GMP Amendments for higher density.
Chairman Hruby asked Cormac to draft a letter and send them the draft.
7. STAFF AND COMMITTEE GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
Mr. Giblin introduced Sarah Harrington to the full AHAC, noting that she has accepted the
position of interim Economic Development & Housing Director for the new division. She’ll be
doing that on an interim basis to evaluate it. For those six months, he’ll still be here assisting
her, helping her as she moves forward.
Ms. Harrington introduced herself and thanked the AHAC for doing this.
8. NEW BUSINESS
Mr. Giblin said management requested that the AHAC move its date and time to something
closely mirroring the DSAC meetings, a regular weekday once monthly in the afternoon, such
as 2 or 3 p.m. We’ve got commitments and it can’t be on a BCC or Planning Commission day,
or the day DSAC meets. He’ll work with Commissioner Hall’s office on selecting a day and
week. Are there any days committee members can’t attend?
A discussion ensued and the following points were made:
Chairman Hruby said Thursdays don’t work for him.
Mr. Giblin suggested the first Tuesday of the month at 3 p.m.
Chairman Hruby said that for those who work, 3 p.m. would kill their day.
Mr. Giblin noted there’s a line outside the GMD door at 7:30 a.m. each day, waiting
to get in. Staff and directors hit the ground running to help the development industry,
so afternoons are easier to manage.
Chairman Hruby asked for as late in the afternoon as possible, 3-4 p.m.
Commissioner Hall noted that it gets into traffic and supper time.
Chairman Hruby said when you have a business, starting a day after a morning
meeting is easier.
Planning Commissioner Shea noted that many already blocked these dates in their
calendars.
Mr. Giblin said they’d like to start the change in May.
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April 18, 2023
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Commissioner Hall told the AHAC:
Next month may be a problem.
He’s had discussions with staff and we want this committee to be very relevant, which
it is, but we’re at risk of losing some of that.
We’ve had discussions about moving this meeting to every other month or quarterly.
A lot of the committee’s main focus was accomplished, as far as recommending
reviewing policy and sending something to the Board of County Commissioners.
With the Live Local Act and the four county amendments, we’re kind of powerless as
far as reviewing policies or making recommendations. That’s kind of finished.
What we can do is move toward promoting things and by allowing some time to
accumulate between meetings, we can become aware of what the market is producing
and where we can promote projects. We can promote opportunities we’re hearing
about and market that.
We’ve established the rules for free enterprise to do what they do best, build assets, so
we can move to promoting projects and processes, such as someone coming before us
to detail a plan.
Someone showed up at his office and said he’s ready to go, he has property and
wanted to know how to move forward.
If we can become aware of the process and being influential there, that would be
something the committee would be strong on, as well as financial opportunities. For
Rural Neighborhoods, financing was the major obstacle, so if we become aware of
grants or private-capital groups, etc., we can promote those as we learn about them.
That frees up everything the county does for us. This is above and beyond their real
jobs.
If we need to meet monthly and we can be relevant and do something productive, that
would be good. But we also should think about every other month or quarterly, and if
we need to schedule another meeting, we always can. Any thoughts about that?
A discussion ensued and the following points were made:
Less frequent meetings might work.
Vice Chair Faron noted that staff was going to fill in the work plan with the current
status and next steps, so we can review it and determine if it should be quarterly, every
other month or every six months.
Most of us have other work commitments, so freeing up time would be good.
We should make a decision within a month and stay on task.
A two-hour meeting would be effective and reduce the impact.
We need to get comfortable with our strategic objectives.
Chairman Hruby disagreed, noting there’s a lot going on in the county and state, so
it’s in flux. There may be policy adjustments and a review required. Maybe we can
meet every other month, but he doesn’t support quarterly. There’s too much activity
going on, but maybe we can take a summer recess.
Planning Commissioner Shea worried they’d lose track of each other.
Ms. Waller noted that these plans don’t come out quarterly. She asked that they
maintain monthly meetings.
Planning Commissioner Shea said when they meet to put the agenda together and
there’s nothing worthy of a meeting, we can cancel it. He suggested leaving it
monthly.
Chairman Hruby noted that he and Cormac sit down to discuss the agenda monthly.
Vice Chair Faron said the work plan can go out as an attachment for everybody to
review for their information. They don’t need a meeting to discuss it.
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April 18, 2023
22
Ms. Waller noted that they haven’t seen the rental inventory schedule since last year.
Mr. Giblin said they don’t have the staff to do that. It was done quarterly by Community &
Human Services. They hope it can be done quarterly or twice a year. We can tap into the
Apartment Association or Real Estate Services.
Ms. Waller asked if there’s any way they can get an update on housing, how many units we’re
looking for, what’s our shortfall, etc.? We’re an advisory committee and need to know if
there’s a big shortage or if we’re caught up on rental units and can concentrate on something
else.
Mr. Giblin said that’s a separate issue from the quarterly apartment survey. You’re talking
about the county’s yearly housing needs assessment. That’s ongoing and is done after the new
median incomes are released by HUD for the year. They haven’t come out yet for 2023. We’re
going to try to do that at least once a year.
Ms. Waller asked how often the apartment assessment is done.
Mr. Giblin said annually. It’s incredibly labor intensive.
Mr. Buntzman noted that there are no vacancies in Immokalee and rents are going up.
Mr. Harney told the AHAC:
This is his last meeting because he’s moving to Sarasota next month. He’s been
involved with the AHAC for nearly five years and a member for about 2½ years.
It’s been a pleasure to contribute to the work that needs to be done to promote
affordable housing. We’ve gotten a lot done. There are still loose ends and the game
isn’t over. We need to make sure all those loose ends get tied up.
Jamie French told him recently that where he lives, the corner of Collier and
Vanderbilt Beach Road, is probably going to be the midpoint for population for the
county in the future. That’s a hard thing for a lot of people to understand, but there
will be a ton of development east of Collier Boulevard, not a few houses, tens of
thousands of houses.
A lot of what we’ve talked about here has dealt with the areas west of Collier. It’s
important for the AHAC to focus on the direction it’s going. That’s where a lot of
affordable housing will go due to land costs. The direction of the county is going to be
critical going forward, including Immokalee.
Habitat is involved out there. There are also the new villages that Collier Enterprises is
starting, which will include an affordable component of the Rural-Fringe Mixed-Use
Area.
These will be coming in the future. They’re critical for the county because when an
area is built up, it’s expensive. There’s only so much that can be done here.
Mike has told us several times that you can get in transport-oriented districts and busy
street corners and build some buildings. Most of it’s going to come east.
He’s resigning from his Habitat position. Jean is considering taking over part of what
he’s doing. She’ll probably be AHAC’s Habitat contact and will do a good job.
It’s critically important for AHAC members to show up at meetings to speak about
important issues. It’s one thing to send a letter, it’s another to take the time, write your
own words, stand up and speak to the commissioners. That’s very important, probably
as important as all the other work that we do. Unless we speak out to the
commissioners when they’re making a decision, we’re missing a major part of what
we do. He suggests they do that going forward.
He appreciated the opportunity to be a part of this and thanked them for listening.
Chairman Hruby thanked him for his service, noting it was a pleasure having him on the
AHAC.
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9.
10.
{pril I 8. 2023
[The members and audience applauded.J
Action ltem: Make sure AHAC members ottend PC and BCC meetinss to voice their
suooort of affordable-housing proi ects.
Chairman Hruby noted that they have two positions open.
Mr. Harney said his term will end at the end of this year. If you elect someone now, do they
have to be reelected again at the end of the term?
Mr. Giblin said that person would fill the remaining poftion of your term and then they'd be
up for election again.
Mr. Harney said you might want to consider whether they want to fill his position for the
remaining months.
ADJOURN
Vice Chair Foron made a motion to odjourn. Second by Mr. Buntzman. The motion passed
unanimously, 8-0.
NEXT MEETING DATE
8:30 a.m. NIay 3,2023
Conference Room 6091610
Growth Management Community Development Department
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned
by the order of the chairman at 10:30 a.m.
These minutes were θ″
(check one) as presented / , or as
ADVISORY COPIPIITTEE
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