AHAC Minutes 05/15/2023May 15, 2023
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MINUTES OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Naples, Florida, May 15, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, the Collier County Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, in
and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 2 p.m. in
REGULAR SESSION at the Collier County Growth Management Department Building,
Conference Room #609/610, 2800 Horseshoe Drive North, Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
Chairman: Steve Hruby
Vice Chairman: Jennifer Faron
Jessica Brinkert (resigned)
Arol Mr. Buntzman
Gary Hains
Commissioner Chris Hall
John Harney (resigned)
Todd Lyon
Planning Commissioner Paul Shea (excused)
Mary Waller
County Staff Members Present:
Jamie French, Department Head, GMD
Cormac Giblin, Planning Manager, Development Review
Sarah Harrington, Interim Dir., Economic Development & Housing
Mike Bosi, Director, Planning & Zoning
Derek Perry, Assistant County Attorney
Jaime Cook, Director, Development Review
Julie Chardon, Ops Support Specialist II, GMD
Kevin Summers, Mgr., Technical Systems Ops, GMD (via Zoom)
Kristi Sonntag, Director, Community & Human Services Division, Public Service
Department (via Zoom)
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Any persons in need of a verbatim record of the meeting may request a copy of the audio
recording from the Collier County Growth Management Department.
1. CALL TO ORDER & PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Vice Chair Faron called the meeting to order at 2:02 p.m.
[The pledge of allegiance was recited.]
2. ROLL CALL OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND STAFF
Ms. Harrington called the roll call and noted that Chairman Hruby will be a few minutes
late and Ms. Brinkert and Commissioner Shea were not present. A quorum of seven was
present in the boardroom.
Vice Chair Faron told speakers they must register prior to speaking and can speak up to
three minutes, unless the time is adjusted by the chairman. Committee members may ask
direct questions of speakers. Please wait to be recognized by the chairman and state your
name and affiliation for the record before commenting. If you have a disability and need an
accommodation to participate, you can contact the county Facilities Management
Department. Assisted-listening devices for the hearing impaired are located in the County
Commissioners’ Office.
[Chairman Hruby joined the meeting at 2:05 p.m.]
3. APROVAL OF AGENDA AND MINUTES
a. Approval of today’s agenda
Ms. Waller made a motion to approve the agenda, as amended. The motion was
seconded by Hall. The motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
b. Approval of April 18, 2023, AHAC meeting minutes
Ms. Waller made a motion to approve the April 18, 2023, meeting minutes. The motion
was seconded by Mr. Lyon. The motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
4. INFORMATIONAL ITEMS AND PRESENTATION
a. Committee Vacancies – Two Applications
Mr. Giblin said there was a late arrival from the County Attorney’s Office this morning,
an additional application from Maureen Gerrity that’s in your packets. Staff put together
a ranking sheet for the AHAC to use. We suggest that you rank the applicants one, two or
three and then tabulate the votes and make a motion to recommend the nomination of the
first two, which are the highest in the consensus because there are the two seats to fill.
One of the applicants is on Zoom, Maureen. You can call each candidate up to the
podium and ask them questions.
Chairman Hruby listed the applicants, then asked Robert Berke to tell them about
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himself and why he wants to be part of the AHAC.
Robert Berke
• He lives in Florida full time and has been retired for about six years.
• He wants to give back to the community and feels affordable housing is
important.
• He was recently voted onto the CD, the Community Development District, at
Cedar Hammock and enjoys it and feels that he’s helped that committee progress.
• His background is construction, all different levels, from banging nails to working
on larger buildings and one large hospitality project on Cape Cod.
Chairman Hruby asked if he does residential or commercial.
Mr. Berke said he does residential and commercial, but more residential.
Vice Chair Faron said they have two vacancies and have to make sure we fill in certain
categories. Which categories do we need to fill?
Mr. Giblin said John Harney was a non-profit representative and Joe Trachtenberg, the
other vacancy, was a resident of the jurisdiction, so that could apply to anyone. There are
11 different categories. The mixture of your current group allows for a nomination from
various categories, so it’s not a hard and fast rule.
Chairman Hruby noted that several of them have qualified for a number of categories,
so we have shifted categories to satisfy a position.
Vice Chair Faron asked Mr. Berke what his thoughts were on the role of the
government, the county, in funding and supporting affordable housing.
Mr. Berke said affordable housing is important and should be done properly. He read the
minutes of the meetings and noted they discussed not building affordable housing in a
gated community and building it in the appropriate places. Government is important in
helping push affordable housing. If the government doesn’t do it, it won’t get expedited
by private resources.
Ms. Waller asked if he could explain is interpretation of appropriate.
Mr. Berke said Fifth Avenue South wouldn’t be an appropriate place. Something more
appropriate would be the project they discussed on Orange Blossom Drive, which seems
to be a very good place. There are places for affordable housing that really work well and
others that wouldn’t work as well.
Commissioner Hall asked for an example of a location that wouldn’t work.
Mr. Berke said Fifth Avenue South wouldn’t be a good place, but in contrast, Cedar
Hammock, where he lives off of Collier Boulevard, where there’s a lot of land, would be
a great place for affordable housing. Habitat for Humanity is around the corner from the
Walmart plaza and that’s a great place. There are a lot of great places in a high-density
commercial district near the water, but he’d probably be against that and more favorable
to other areas.
Dr. Thomas Felke
• He’s an associate professor for academics at the Marieb College of Health &
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Human Services at Florida Gulf Coast University.
• He’s also the executive director of the Shady Rest Institute on positive aging at
FGCU.
• He was a Collier County resident part-time since the mid-90s but has lived here
full time since 2011.
• He’s a social worker through his academic training and has been very involved in
the non-profit community, looking at various social issues, including affordable
housing over the years.
• He serves as the vice chair of the Collier County Hunger & Homeless Coalition.
• He serves on the Continuum of Care in Lee County and on the boards of several
non-profits.
• In an informal role, he’s provided data points when requested and put them out
for events, such as the work force summit held earlier this year.
Mr. Lyon noted that he works with a lot of non-profits, so why is he interested in the
AHAC?
Dr. Felke said the AHAC is one of the more important committees now because housing
is a major issue. It’s a multifaceted issue. It’s not just the housing piece. From his work as
a social worker and with different nonprofits, he knows people need to make decisions
about their housing, their work, their medical, their school, so there could not be a more
critical point to provide service. He’s done that for several years and is transitioning off
of several of his roles, so this is the perfect opportunity to take the knowledge and
experiences he’s gained in those positions and translate it to an advisory committee such
as this.
Chairman Hruby asked how many committees he’s sitting on now, in addition to his
day job.
Dr. Felke said he’s now sitting on three, but transitioning off of two and will be off those
by the end of the month.
Mr. Buntzman asked which ones he’s transitioning off of.
Dr. Felke said the Collier County Hunger & Homeless Coalition, and he’s also currently
the Chair of the Dublin Center, a nonprofit group in Lee County focused on caregivers of
people diagnosed with dementia and Alzheimer’s.
Vice Chair Faron asked what the role of government is in supporting and financing
affordable housing in Collier County?
Dr. Felke told the AHAC:
• Government plays one part of the overall role that we need to look at.
• Through his work over the years and through different research initiatives, he’s
looked at national best practices for housing and social issues.
• Government plays one part, in addition to the non-profit and workforce sectors.
• The summit earlier this year was an important piece because every element plays
a role.
• One of the things we’ve not gotten a strong handle on is from our workforce,
trying to determine how many people are experiencing homelessness and how to
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best support them through the process. It’s not a one size fits all that will help.
• As for the proper location for affordable housing, he does research with
geographic information systems mapping and tries to take a more holistic view
and look at not only where housing is located, but where is the population sector,
the jobs and transportation, so we have a best fit for housing for those most in
need.
Commissioner Hall noted that he feels it’s the taxpayers’ responsibility to provide
housing for the workforce. If you found 30% of the workforce was homeless, would it be
the government’s responsibility or whose responsibility would that be?
Dr. Felke said it shouldn’t solely be based on government because that’s not the best way
for us to move forward. If the government is solely supposed to hold on to that position,
then we are putting government in the position of being landlords, in addition to property
managers. National best practices between government, workforce and nonprofits can be
seen in Philadelphia, where they’ve taken a strong look at their communities and used
mixed-use as an opportunity to provide housing and other social supports. That would be
a better strategy.
Chairman Hruby asked if he was from Philadelphia.
Dr. Felke said he was and he’s seen what’s going on there.
Sue Ryan
• She’s been coming to Collier County and Naples since 1990. She became a
permanent resident in 2001.
• In the last year, she’s become more aware of the integration and the need for
housing creativity and housing accessibility and knows this is not an issue for one
area or one demographic. It impacts every part of our community and is escalating
as we continue to grow and look for ways to thrive.
• She’s very passionate about it.
• The more she becomes aware of the breadth of the impact of this throughout the
community and that it’s been an issue for a long time, the more we need to
continue to become creative about housing and looking outside the traditional
ways that we have been addressing it, the more opportunity there is for us to be
able to come up with solutions that will help us continue to grow and thrive as a
community in the future.
• She doesn’t understand them all in detail and hasn’t studied them but became
aware of them at a high level during some meetings over the past year.
• She’d have to study those and it’s worth investing the time to do it to understand
because if this were an easy solution, the solution would have already been
created.
• She understands there are a lot of different areas that are coming together with
very smart and capable minds trying to figure this out and that it requires us
coming up with new solutions and different perspectives.
Vice Chair Faron noted that she has a background as an executive coach and trainer, so
she’s curious how she’d apply that experience at this committee level. Affordable
housing support often faces opposition from the Not-In-My-Backyard types, NIMBYism.
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What would you draw from your experience to help this committee to counteract some of
that as we support affordable projects?
Ms. Ryan told the AHAC:
• For more than 30 years, she was in roles of enterprise application, software sales,
and was selling software that helped businesses and very large organizations,
often multinational and international, run.
• One the big struggles for people was that not everybody in an organization at all
levels understood issues other people were facing, so the loudest voices tended to
have the most attention placed on them.
• What she’d do was go in and understand what was important, from the chairman
of the board all the way down to the person who was the front-facing employee.
What were they responsible for? What were the challenges they had at each level
of the organization? What were they dealing with?
• Through a lot of education, understanding and asking questions, she found overall
solutions so they could see a vision of what it could look like and they were able
to come up with a lot of creative solutions and do things differently than they had
traditionally done because they were able to step into the potential and
possibilities of what could be.
• That’s the way she’s always been wired and how she does things, whether on a
committee, coaching or sales. She prepared people to buy. She never sold
anything.
Chairman Hruby asked what she saw as the government’s role in affordable housing.
Ms. Ryan told the AHAC:
• Government has one of the important roles. She agrees with Tom that it’s only
one of the roles.
• There’s a holistic view that it must include everybody.
• At one level, if things aren’t done, they can impact wildlife, water quality and
many things, so there’s a role that’s very important from an educational
perspective and from the perspective of the community growing.
• But it also puts an unfair burden on government to be dependent on, to be the
voice, because that’s not what they’re meant to do.
• Government should look at a variety of different issues that face us as an overall
community, but not be the one telling people where they can live and defining
what the issue is because their scope of what they’re allowed to define as the issue
may be limited.
• What they’d benefit from is a broader view of what the potential for the solution
is.
Ms. Waller asked what experience she has with affordable housing.
Ms. Ryan said she knows people who own businesses who have been impacted, so she
appreciates the impacts. She hasn’t been in that position but has helped and counseled
people who can’t find a place to live.
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Andrew Terhune
• He first started coming to Naples in 2003. He and his wife bought a home in 2004
and became residents in 2019.
• When they first arrived, the headlines frequently were all about the affordable
housing problem. This was nearly 20 years ago, then we had the downturn in
housing that came in 2007 or 2008 and that all went away and disappeared from
the paper.
• He believes that if you complain about a problem, you need to step up and do
something about it. That’s why he’s been paying attention to what goes on here.
• He brings a fair amount of experience and spent nearly three decades in the home-
building business in the northeast with a national home builder and was building
all over the country.
• He’s read zoning and building codes and has been to many town supervisor
meetings, Planning Commission meetings, zoning meetings and has seen it from
the builder’s point of view.
• What he’s observed almost universally is everybody is in favor of affordable
housing, but very few people are in favor of it here. That’s the problem you see all
over the country. It’s more than annoying. It’s absolutely frustrating how much
you see that.
• He became aware of the AHAC late last year and is looking forward to being part
of the solutions to the problem we have here.
Commissioner Hall asked why he thought people here would not be in favor of it.
Mr. Terhune said it’s just something he’s seen everywhere. Perhaps Collier County is
the exception to the rule, but he doubts it. Everybody likes affordable housing, but they
want it in a different part of the county, and the people in that part of the county don’t
want it in their part of the county. They want it in another part of the county, or they want
it over in Lee County. That’s something he’s seen repeated again and again.
Commissioner Hall asked how he’d describe affordable housing.
Mr. Terhune said entry level housing and housing for people starting off and don’t have
a lot of money. It doesn’t necessarily have to be housing supported by the government. It
can be housing built by home builders. We were looking to cater to that niche of the
market. It shouldn’t be limited to just housing supported by a government program. It
encompasses a lot more than that.
Mr. Buntzman noted that he indicated that he’s seen the affordable housing issue exist
for a long time, not only here, but other places. Why do you think major home builders
haven’t gotten involved in affordable housing here?
Mr. Terhune said specifically in Collier County, but in many other places, it’s because
governments tend to make it difficult. One of the things you need to make it affordable is
have more density. He’s not an expert in Collier County zoning, but he read through it
and there’s a typical cap of 16 dwelling units per acre. That’s not ordained from on high.
That’s created by our elected representatives. It could be something else. The fact is, the
less dense you make it, that means the more roads, the more water lines, sewer, utilities
and the more land you need. The more of that you do, the less affordable it’s going to be.
One reason builders don’t get into it is when you make your zoning so that you don’t
have the density, you need to make low-cost housing. They build what they can do to
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make money, and often it’s not because the builders don’t want to do it. It’s because we
shackle them with so many requirements that they can’t do it. It’s not just Collier County,
this is nationwide.
Chairman Hruby asked about his experience working with Toll Brothers.
Mr. Terhune said they did everything, single family, multifamily. He was at
headquarters and was involved in everything. He was director of special projects and
reported directly to the president. Over 30 years there, he did many things. A lot had to
do with customer satisfaction, but he also worked on special projects involving the
approval of local communities.
Ms. Waller said during that time, when it was a problem for years all over the nation,
what did he bring forward to the company to say they should help out?
Mr. Terhune said very little because we found ourselves shackled by the various
governments that we were dealing with. We were willing to build almost anything, but
the problem is if you go into a municipality and they say, you can build here and you’ve
got this piece of land, but every lot must be an acre, you can either decide to go ahead
and build houses on an acre or beat your head on the wall for 10 years and hope to
change their minds. Most builders have to make money. You can’t do something and
lose. You go along with what the zoning and the jurisdiction has put into law. That’s a
shame, but that’s a fact. You can’t fight city hall all the time and make money.
Chairman Hruby asked where Toll Brothers was.
Mr. Terhune said they were headquartered in Pennsylvania, but he did a lot of work in
Pennsylvania, New Jersey and the northeast. Toll Brothers did business in over 20 states.
Mr. Buntzman said aside from density, what do you think government could do to
encourage or require developers to build more affordable housing?
Mr. Terhune said he’s hesitant to require it. Encouraging is the way to go. He’s more a
fan of nudging rather than beating them over the head with a club to get them to do it. He
believes Collier County has the highest impact fees of any county in Florida, or close to
it, and that’s a major impediment for affordable housing. To build a very inexpensive
apartment here, you’re looking at $20,000 a year. Compared to other places nationwide,
that’s an absurdly high fee and then we wonder why don’t we have affordable housing.
Mr. Buntzman said he agrees it shouldn’t be required. We’ve had those discussions.
Instead of requiring, how do you feel about requiring developers who are building
expensive housing to also build a percentage of affordable housing?
Mr. Terhune said that’s more than a nudge. That’s a requirement and he doesn’t
generally like that. There are better ways to accomplish what you want.
Mr. Buntzman asked him to explain the better ways.
Mr. Terhune said the best way is getting rid of fees that you don’t need and building
codes and subdivision ordinances that aren’t absolutely necessary for health and safety
and allowing a lot of density. For example, he’s seen a lot of communities required to
make improvements well over what’s required. To build there, you’ve got to build very
wide streets, put in improvements that aren’t necessary, but maybe are desirable. The
more of these things you require, the harder it is for a private party to come in there and
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build affordable housing. Everything you put in there that costs money makes it less
affordable. That’s just math. That’s not philosophy.
Vice Chair Faron asked why he’d want to be on a committee that’s an advisory
committee to the Board of County Commissioners when he might be working as a
lobbyist for the building industry. We advise and Commissioner Hall is our liaison to the
BCC. We are very much supportive of the effort. It’s not always in agreement with them,
but we try to support where we can to make the biggest impact we can in affordable
housing. With your experience, how do you feel about being on an appointed advisory
committee to the government agency that you say shackles developers and builders? How
do you feel about being on the advisory side versus the building side?
Mr. Terhune said he doesn’t think they’re incompatible. Advisory committees have to
advise the commissioners on what we think good policy would be because they have a lot
of things to do. They’re overseeing the whole county and can’t be experts on everything.
It would be a great way to use his knowledge and experience – to work with this
committee and be able to give the county advice on what we ought to do. It’s up to the
commissioners to decide if they’re going to take that advice.
Lyon asked if he’s a year-round resident.
Mr. Terhune said he’s here about eight months a year.
Ms. Waller noted that they have monthly meetings.
Mr. Terhune said he understands they can participate on Zoom. He’s the chair of the
Strategic Planning Committee at Naples Lakes Country Club, where he lives, and all
summer long 70% of residents go back up north, but they still have meetings.
Chairman Hruby asked if they had any more questions.
Mr. Terhune thanked them and called the AHAC a great group of people. You’ve got a
lot of qualified candidates, so whatever way it comes out, it’s going to be good.
[Asked at the end of the interview with Ms. Roberts below and moved to this section.]
Commissioner Hall said he’d mentioned that the impact fees are high and we need to do
away with them, but the reason we charge them is a way of paying for growth, instead of
taxing residents. If we completely did away with impact fees for affordable housing
projects, how would you suggest finding a balance? Who would then pay for growth?
Mr. Terhune said they’re probably limited by Florida statutes, and he’d have to educate
himself on those. Right now, the impact fees for building an apartment are around
$20,000. The impact fee for building in Pelican Bay, where you’d be building something
for $10 million, is $30,000. In Pelican Bay, it’s a rounding error they wouldn’t even
notice, but for an affordable project, it’s a huge amount of the cost. We need to find a
better balance so that it doesn’t affect affordable housing to a great extent, whereas the
luxury housing, which we have plenty of in Collier County, is barely affected by impact
fees, if at all. He doesn’t have a solution to that, but there are other places in the country
that don’t have the impact-fee situation that Collier County has, and they somehow
manage. Maybe Collier County has done this, but he’d be looking at other jurisdictions
and finding out how they do it because few of them have the situation Collier County
does.
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Hannah Roberts
• She’s a development associate of Soave Building Group, a luxury high-rise
builder that’s been in the industry for 30 years.
• She was born and raised here.
• She’s educated herself on the AHAC through Leadership Collier, which she just
completed.
• She’s been increasingly aware of the affordable housing issue in Collier County
just through working with roughly 150 employees in her company across
developments here.
• She’s excited and very interested in helping to educate and continue to understand
some of the impediments to affordable housing and how we can best advise our
commissioners to alleviate some of these problems within the county.
Commissioner Hall asked what some of the solutions were that she came up with to help
her company’s 150 employees with housing issues.
Ms. Roberts told the AHAC:
• The first thing her company did was to start acquiring duplexes and triplexes to
create affordable housing options for them.
• Especially during the hurricane, that demonstrated how difficult it is to have the
oversight to administer those properties when they’re in low-lying areas,
experience damage and they’re trying to manage leases, etc.
• It’s not something we’re the most agile at doing, but we’re making it work
because we’ve had people come to us and say their rent started out at $1,200 three
years ago and it’s $1,900 a month now and my salary has gone up by X and those
two percentages don’t tie together, so that’s the first thing we did.
• We’re also trying to find places in the county and units that are close enough to
the jobs to make sense for them, but don’t exceed 30% of their income.
• We’re stepping up and advocating for them where we can, providing letters and
whatever resources we have.
• To put them up in privately owned units is the most effective thing we can do, but
it would be great to have a place in town to point them to and say, “here are the
reasonably priced apartments in Naples,” but she can’t do that now for any of the
150 employees.
Vice Chair Faron asked about her view of the role of government in affordable housing,
noting that she has background in the private sector.
Ms. Roberts told the AHAC:
• The role of government, specifically this committee, is to gather best practices
around the country and other Florida jurisdictions, educate ourselves about what
other people are doing and help shape policies that the commissioners adopt by
identifying what’s working elsewhere.
• More holistically, the government could identify some of the challenges, such as
impact fees and densities.
• She regularly puts together pro formas and she can’t make them work right now
with the land costs, the densities and rising construction and materials costs. If she
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can find ways to alleviate that, whether it’s a waiver of impact fees or an
increased amount of density on a property, then those are things the government
can help me with as a private builder.
• On the flip side, they need to understand that it doesn’t work to throw 600 units
on the corner of Immokalee Road and 951 because you’re taxing other
infrastructure requirements or essential services the government is providing.
• She expects government to take an active role in protecting the community and
property values by making sure that everything we do is measured, responsible
and considers the full picture.
Ms. Waller noted that she works with high-end builders. Have you personally worked
with anyone in affordable housing?
Ms. Roberts said she did after Hurricane Ian.
Ms. Waller said not just after the hurricane.
Ms. Roberts said she hasn’t.
Commissioner Hall noted that living here full time she’s seen the need because she’s
seen the high end and the low end. We’re all aware of the problem, but Mary was asking
what she could do specifically to help with the solution.
Ms. Roberts told the AHAC:
• Speaking as a builder in the county, she’d identify places where she could make it
work.
• The company she works for doesn’t do government subsidies, etc., but to make
projects work, they have to be unit output multiplied by the number of units on
the property to determine if it meets the return we’re looking for.
• When she grew up here, the idea was to put them farther out on 951 or Immokalee
Road, where the land is cheaper.
• Her company tries to work as close to the coast as possible, so that wouldn’t
work. Units need to be close to jobs.
• With her understanding of zoning and legal background, it’s important to educate
people that affordable housing in Collier doesn’t look like an 8-story brick
building with people packed in like sardines. What is 30% of the adjusted median
income? What are the four tiers of affordable housing, how do we define it and
what do those projects look like?
• Showing up at county meetings and advocating for projects where there are a lot
of misconceptions surrounding what affordable housing and workforce housing
might look like are things she can do.
• She’s passionate about getting in front of people and telling them they don’t have
the right perception of what the project will look like, asking them what their
concerns are and how they can be addressed.
[Mr. Hains left the meeting at 2:47 p.m.]
Chairman Hruby asked if there were any more questions.
[Commissioner Hall had a question for Mr. Terhune; moved to the section above.]
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Maureen Gerrity (via Zoom)
• She’s been in Collier County as a full-time resident for about 20 years.
• She’s a retired physician assistant.
• The reason for her interest is she worked at the David Lawrence Center for many
years and was acutely aware of people’s housing problems and living in this
county, which is very high end and desirable.
• No matter how many houses you build, people are going to come to live here, but
the problem is how do you keep them affordable, instead of building something
and then all of a sudden, the rent goes up $3,000-$4000 a month?
• It’s a complicated problem. We have several different types of people who need
affordable housing, the working poor, the trained workforce, and the indigent
poor.
• It’s important to be involved as a citizen and to respect the rights of county
residents.
• She doesn’t have building experience but has a keen understanding of the
difficulties people face in this area, driving long commutes or not being able to
find housing.
Ms. Waller asked what made her decide to apply for this committee.
Ms. Gerrity said it’s a very complicated problem that needs creative solutions. She
thinks they could incentivize builders and get the government involved in setting aside
land at cheaper prices for builders. We set aside a lot of land in Florida for environmental
protection. Maybe we should set aside some for affordable housing at a certain
percentage of what’s available in the area. There are many different ways to address this
problem.
Chairman Hruby said that concludes the interview process. There was one person who
didn’t show up or call, Reid Dante Antonacchio.
Mr. Giblin said staff received an email from Jessica Brinkert, saying she’s resigning
from the committee, so now we have three seats to fill.
Vice Chair Faron asked if they had to advertise that position.
Mr. Giblin said the ad is still out there.
Attorney Perry said he’s confident that if they recommend three candidates, that it’s
fine. Multiple positions are open so adding one more is not unreasonable.
Chairman Hruby noted that Ms. Brinkert resigned one hour before the meeting, so
that’s valid.
A discussion ensued over the nomination process and the following points were made:
• If they don’t feel enough candidates are qualified, the ad is still in place.
• Mr. Giblin and Chairman Hruby discussed that when they worked on the agenda.
• They can use a score sheet so candidates aren’t put in an uncomfortable position.
• They previously vetted the resumes.
• Attorney Perry said if they wanted to, they could choose two candidates and hold
off on the third, but it’s still legal to move forward with all three.
• All three would have to be approved by the County Attorney’s Office and the
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Board of County Commissioners.
• Banking and finance backgrounds are not required. We don’t have banking and
finance members currently.
• Jessica was a banking representative, but was chosen to represent the jurisdiction,
not for banking.
• There are no statutory requirements for selections.
• When they score the candidates, No. 3 will be in a holding position until the
County Attorney’s Office approves moving forward with the third position.
• Mr. Giblin noted that he already received the top two nominees from Mr. Hain.
[Tallied and revealed later in the meeting; moved to this section.]
Mr. Giblin said the top three are Mr. Roberts with seven points, Mr. Terhune, with six
points and Dr. Felke, with five points. Those names will be recommended to the Board of
County Commissioners for them to act on at a subsequent board meeting.
Chairman Hruby told the three that they can sit on the committee once they’re
approved.
b. Committee Member Attendance Guidelines
Chairman Hruby noted that they started a discussion about unexcused absences last
month, but there is a policy about the number allowed.
Mr. Giblin said the policy is in the packet, page three in backup section 2-833. It comes
from the County Administrative Code and applies to all county advisory boards. It says,
“Any member who is absent for more than half of the board meetings in a given fiscal
year shall be deemed to have tendered his or her resignation from such board
automatically.” The next paragraph says that if there’s any board member absent for two
consecutive meetings without an excuse acceptable to the board chair, that seat can be
declared vacant. The packet also includes a recap of the attendance roster for the last few
meetings of the last year. No one is in jeopardy right now.
5. PUBLIC COMMENT
Sofia Kyle said she sent an email about ADUs in Collier County and has questions about
guest houses, so she started researching it. She noted that the subject is on the agenda
today.
Commissioner Hall asked what her questions were.
Ms. Kyle said she’s interested in understanding the steps being taken to legalize it and
what a pilot program will look like. She read that a pilot program for ADUs was intended
for the Rural West Development, which she believes is on hold. Are there any steps being
taken, for example, to allow 500 people to register to remodel a mother-in-law suite and
then keep tabs on those people and take metrics to understand what the KPIs are to see
how that goes in terms of new laws and widespread implementation.
Mr. Giblin said Sophia sent an e-mail to county staff about 1½ months ago. She’d seen
the issue of guest houses and ADU rentals in the newspaper. She’s a certified urban
planner and took it upon herself to write a research paper/proposal/position piece.
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Commissioner Hall said it was an excellent email.
Mr. Giblin agreed it was excellent.
Chairman Hruby said now they know the author. It was a good article.
Mr. Giblin said he reached out to her to say they’re continuing to work on the issue and
to stay in touch.
Chairman Hruby said she can join the discussion when they get to ADUs on the agenda.
[Mr. Lyon left the meeting at 3:10 p.m.]
6. DISCUSSION ITEMS
a. AHAC Revised Workplan Review
Vice Chair Faron said at the last meeting we talked about staff filling in the current
status so we could talk about the next steps as a group. This plan has been revised based
on what the subcommittee talked about. She doesn’t want to burden anybody with work,
but how do we start to populate this? She’d be happy to be the scribe and sit down with
someone to fill it in. She wants to use it as intended, our tracking system for what we’re
working on, where we stand and what’s next. But she’s looking for guidance.
Mr. Giblin said that’s where we are, filling in the blanks. With transitioning from
subcommittee work to full committee, we have to bring things in a certain order, so now
this is the format and the wording of all the goals that were hashed out. Now it’s time to
fill in the details, and we’ll have that for you at your next meeting.
Chairman Hruby told the AHAC:
• Last month, we had a discussion about vetting, possibly revising and making
suggestions for county commissioners about adjusting policy for the use of county
owned property, how you dispose of it, how to pay for it.
• He spoke with the county manager at a housing forum for the new Housing
Alliance. She offered to come before us. She couldn’t do it at this meeting but she
will be at the next meeting to give us the groundwork on how the policy is
working now.
• She’ll discuss the policy for payments and reimbursements for county-owned
property and why certain things are important as a foundation, so we can begin to
do that.
• We want a foundation so we don’t go off on a tangent and make legal
recommendations on policy that would trip up legal counsel and the BCC.
• That will be on next month’s agenda.
• We also discussed compliance for the affordable units that are out there. Staff is
putting together a spreadsheet to identify all the properties and the number of
units committed for affordability. It’s a huge spreadsheet.
• The next step is they’re going to start identifying how they’re monitored, when
they’re monitored and if there are any violations in each development’s
obligations.
• There are a few advocacy groups that have been meeting with us, the county and
the non-profit world, saying that this needs to be done and it needs more
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transparency. That’s another policy we want to add on to this spreadsheet to look
at how we can come up with a procedure for identifying, monitoring and exposing
this, having transparency to the public and to the development community for the
performance of these non-profit developments.
• Those are two important policy discussions we need to have over the next couple
of months. We’ll probably end up with some advice for the commissioner to take
back to his cohorts.
• He’d like to add that to this work plan that Jennifer is monitoring.
Action Item: After the County Manager speaks at the next meeting, we should vet,
revise and make suggestions for county commissioners about adjusting policy for the
use of county owned property and how it’s disposed of and paid for.
Action Item: Develop a procedure for identifying, monitoring and exposing whether
any affordable-housing developments are not complying with their legal obligations to
the county, so we can have transparency to the public and development community on
the performance of these non-profits and developments.
b. Accessory Units Discussion (Mike Bosi)
Mr. Bosi told the AHAC:
• Margaret Emblidge from AB&B (Agnoli, Barber & Brundage Inc.), a consultant
who is helping us out with the housing plan, is here to answer questions.
• The 2017 housing plan suggested the county explore making ADUs affordable
housing. The Board of County Commissioners didn’t support renting ADUs
within the Estates zoning district or the RSF.
• Two months ago, the BCC was asked to explore renting guest houses in the Urban
Estates, properties west of 951.
• A handout he provided identifies other parcels west of Collier Boulevard that are
zoned as Estates, which allows for guest houses that are 40% of the primary
structure.
• Our numbers indicate that there are about 2,752 improved Estates houses that do
not have guest houses and 393 that were developed with guest houses.
• Those guest houses have restrictions, meaning they can’t be rented. They’re really
for family members.
• We are tasked with developing a pilot program within the Urban Estates to rent
guest houses.
• What wasn’t expressed directly by the Board of County Commissioners was
whether they should be income-restricted. They did instruct us to work with the
AHAC to develop a test, a pilot program for the Urban Estates.
• We recognized there were implications from a taxing standpoint with the Property
Appraiser and Tax Collector.
• Margaret has had extensive conversations and laid out some issues in the
memorandum he passed out. He wants to frame the issue to the AHAC to see how
it fits in with the individual strategies.
• There are two points of view. If the program was successful and wasn’t restricted,
the guest houses could be rented to anybody. That’s a benefit to the housing issue
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because it adds more supply. This potentially could add up to 2,752 parcels with
guest houses that are Estates zoned that do not have guest houses, so those units
could become available if they wanted to be part of the program.
• The other idea is to only make it available to income-restricted units. We weren’t
instructed to do that, but when commissioners said to work with the AHAC, he
believes anything is on the table.
• We need to understand the taxing and Property Appraiser questions. There is a
distinct difference in terms of having a homesteaded property and having a guest
house that’s rentable. The guesthouse has to be assessed at a different valuation
than it currently is and the homestead protection of a 3% cap would go away on
the guest house. You would then have a 10% cap on that appreciation.
• Those are some issues we have to discuss with the community.
• We want guidance from the AHAC about how this will fit into the overall
program. Is this something you’d want to explore, the possibility of income-
restricted availability of guest houses or do you want the market to dictate it and
just have the supply-and-demand relationship improve?
• If we do move forward with it, we will have two community meetings with the
Oakes Estates and Logan Woods communities to see if it’s something they’re
interested in.
• Some may look at it as a way to supplement income, while others may see that
additional rental units could introduce potential problems in their neighborhoods.
• We need to talk to the community about whether they’re receptive. Would they be
interested if it was fully rentable or income-restricted?
• We will provide their feedback to the AHAC and ultimately go back to the Board
of County Commissioners to let them know what the community thought, so they
can make an informed decision on how to move forward.
• We want to frame the issue by seeing how the AHAC feels and maybe parlay this
into advancing housing and housing availability.
Chairman Hruby asked if they could tie the affordability to the property tax and not
increase the property tax. If you agree to rent only as affordable, is there some reason you
couldn’t do that?
Ms. Emblidge said from her discussions with the Property Appraiser’s Office, they must
follow Florida statutes for the required assessment. They don’t have leeway for the
amount of assessments, the 3% versus 10%. But that’s something that we can look at to
see if it could be addressed through a county ordinance. However, they told her those
were hard and fast rules under the Florida statutes.
Chairman Hruby noted that the new Live Local Act deals with waivers of property tax
for affordable units, so maybe there is a way to do that with ADUs.
Ms. Emblidge said that’s a good point, but she doesn’t have that answer today.
Chairman Hruby said maybe it’s something on the table that might be an issue and you
could unwind with the appraiser and legal counsel.
Vice Chair Faron said the AHAC could make either argument, affordability or adding
units to the market. Let’s say it’s not 2,700 people who would do it, but maybe 2,000.
That frees up supply. In the last quarterly apartment unit analysis that was done after the
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hurricane, October 1, it showed a lot of units were partly being filled up by people who
lost homes or were waiting to rebuild, so that would add to supply. As a homeowner,
would she want to rent if it’s income-restricted in order to have a rentable guest house, or
does she want to get a few thousand dollars a month for it? It frees up more supply down
the pipeline.
Mr. Bosi told the AHAC:
• In terms of our Growth Management Plan work and our future land, we have a
concentration, the highest densities, within Activity Centers.
• The concept behind that was we’re moving up to 25 units an acre from 16-20
units with the housing GMP amendments.
• If you’re going to have that type of density, units and the amenities and housing
provided, you get away from luxury units. The unit prices will reflect a higher
density not being built in a multifamily environment, so you get economies of
scale, so it’s a price you would be able to command for a rental unit within those
conditions within an Activity Center.
• It’s going to somewhat more favorable in terms of affordability, so that’s the same
with the guest houses at 40% of the primary. They’re smaller houses, so there’s a
limit. There’s an inherent limit toward what theoretically a landlord or a property
owner in the Estates could command because of the guest house size, so there’s a
benefit from both sides.
• What if it was income restricted? It would be a challenge for our commitment
tracking and would be difficult. It would put an extra burden on our housing team.
We’d have to understand what the fiscal impact of that would be, but there is a
benefit either way.
Chairman Hruby asked about the long-term implications.
Mr. Giblin said you might end up with 2,700 Airbnbs.
Mr. Bosi said that’s the crux. You can’t control that.
Commissioner Hall said if we say we’re going to open this up for you to participate as a
long-term rental, as a six-month-plus rental for people with income between $50,000 and
$100,000, whatever it is, we can make it clear that it’s not an open door for more Vrbos.
If we let the market rate determine that, that’s what’s going to happen, so we’re doing
this to increase the supply of affordable houses for those in need. If they want to
participate within those rules, they’re welcome to, but if they don’t, they don’t have to. If
he thought it was a stupid government rule, and didn’t want government in his business,
he wouldn’t have to participate.
Mr. Bosi said that’s something we will have to work out with the County Attorney’s
Office. Even if we are making these available, he’s not sure state statutes allow them to
prohibit Airbnbs.
Ms. Emblidge said add to that the Airbnbs and the types of rentals that are typically
shorter than six months, so the focus would be on anything over six months, which also is
a benchmark for the Property Appraiser and the Tax Collector on what type of
assessments are done on those properties. There will have to be a registration program
and tracking system, regardless of whether they’re affordable housing or another type of
rental. It may add some more staff time, but the benefit would outweigh that.
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Mr. French said our gut tells us that if we open this up, the state is exceedingly clear that
it’s available for rental. The state says we cannot regulate unless there’s a policy already
in place and Collier doesn’t have one to regulate vacation rentals by owner, so once it’s
available, it’s available. Currently, it’s prohibited.
Commissioner Hall said he’s only asking because the Live Local Act clearly establishes
what you can and can’t do, so he thought they could incorporate that. There’s a piece of
this legislation that says if grandma has a guest room, she can rent that guest room and
her taxes are not going to be affected, so if it’s possible, that’s what we’re here to do –
put forth plans to help.
Mr. French told the AHAC:
• During his 20 years in this business in building and planning, we have found
comparable terms to show components of the structure connected the two
buildings, so even though it was a freestanding structure, it may have been
connected by breezeway, a solid wall, or something that connected it.
• They do this in Pelican Bay, where a cabana is connected to a breezeway, like a
Spanish-type entrance. The cabana has a small cooking area, a small living area, a
bathroom and a bedroom. It’s just part of the house, so that already exists.
• Whether you’re in the Estates or in Pelican Bay, as long as you could meet the
setbacks and it’s still part of a single structure, you could rent out a room, and that
doesn’t require you to have any type of registration process.
• We’ve seen that throughout the community, even in some gated communities,
such as a caretaker for an elderly person who lives on site. They do exist.
Chairman Hruby said the Live Local Act created a whole new paradigm. It’s still
squishy, but if we require these, if you sign up and you volunteer well, you’ve got to
lease it as affordable housing and not an Airbnb or short-term rental. It’s no different
from having a development restriction for affordable housing in a development. What’s
the difference here? What you said is vacation rentals that the statute talks about. This
isn’t a vacation rental.
Mr. French told the AHAC:
• There’s no differentiation between a single-family home and one used for a
vacation rental.
• The Florida Building Code addresses that it’s intended for occupancy for a
residence, and whether you’re there 30 seconds or 30 years, it is still there, so the
building code does not delineate how much time is involved, just the intent of the
occupancy.
• There are a few bills pending.
• House Bill 250, which was just passed and went through with less than six
opposing votes, says that local governments within fewer than 100 miles from
landfall of a hurricane can’t impose any new restrictions through October 2024,
so that’s a short window of time that prevents the Live Local Act.
• We think it’s going to change the dynamic because it gives you a 10-year window
to say if you’re industrial or commercial and buy right, you can convert to the
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largest allowable residential use and units per acre. We’ve got 192 units an acre.
• At 92 units an acre, let’s see what happens going forward with the development
community.
• Based on phone calls we received, it will be a lightning rod for affordable housing
development.
• What isn’t discussed is the cost of insurance for developers and their ROI.
Through our FEMA group, we’re starting to see insurance policies jump up
almost 200%, so for a single-family residence at $15,000, it’s now $30,000 a year
and they’re making choices. Perhaps they self-insure, especially if the home is
paid for or they just pay it so it means something else changes. The cost of
housing has gone up significantly.
Mr. Giblin said the short answer here is that more research needs to be done. There are
several new state statutes that have come out. In conjunction with existing ones, we need
to see the power of what we can and can’t do under the law.
Chairman Hruby said that’s probably a number he mentioned earlier, so that might be
something rising up. You’re already starting to vet this process and put together a model
or a prototype to start it, so we probably need to have a half a session discussion on that.
He thanked Mr. Bosi for the memo.
Mr. Buntzman asked if a homeowner changes from a guesthouse to a rental, do they
have to pay an impact fee?
Mr. French said they don’t because structure has already been built.
Mr. French told the AHAC:
• Impact fees are different in North Naples than building in Golden Gate Estates.
• You don’t have utility impact fees in Golden Gate Estates.
• Independent fire districts may charge differently for their impact fees.
• What the county sets is government buildings, law enforcement, roads.
• If you live off U.S. 41, staff is still having discussions with the Real Property
Group. For example, the old hotel we want to discuss with the BCC in Port of the
Isles is a 12-minute drive at 45 mph to get to San Marco Road 82, and then
another 10 minutes to Marco Island. It’s a 15-minute ride, 17 with traffic, at 45
mph to get to the intersection of Collier Boulevard and U.S. 41.
• That property already has some impact fee credits because it was already a multi-
room hotel the county took possession of because the property owner didn’t pay
taxes, so there would be some cost due to the years that taxes weren’t paid.
• The property has value, but there are no road impact fees because it’s US 41.
• Through federal taxes and the state of Florida, there are no county road impact
fees on that because you’re not impacting anything but an access road that leads
to that property.
• Impact fees are delineated based on location and the taxing district for the area
that you’re building in.
• Pelican Bay may have an assessment, or you may be paying more into a level of
service that you would receive in Pelican Bay versus Golden Gate Estates or
Immokalee, but they are different.
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• If the structure is built: the state addressed that through the legislation two years
ago, when they said local government cannot regulate, and then it fell back.
• The challenge was that then the HOA makes the rules and that was held up in
court.
• The building code said it doesn’t matter. As long as it’s residential, they are
subject through the DBPR and they have to register that through the DBPR, so
there may be state inspections, but not at the local level.
Ms. Waller asked if they’ve looked at when ADUs could be rented. Is there any time it
becomes investment property versus a single-family residence?
Mr. Bosi said it doesn’t become an investment property. It’s a structure that sits on the
main parcel with the house. It just becomes a rentable unit open on the market, so it’s
treated as if it’s not your homesteaded house, so there are taxing implications for it.
Ms. Waller earning income makes it investment property.
Mr. Bosi said that doesn’t make it an investment property. You are taxed on that house
that you’re renting. You’re taxed at a higher rate and don’t get the advantage of the 3%
cap on appreciation.
Commissioner Hall said it’s definitely an investment property because people want it.
We want to allow it to be rented for people who need houses, so he’s going to make an
investment into that little house. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s what we want.
Without investors, there is no housing.
Ms. Waller said she knows some mortgages have a restriction on that, so has that been
looked at?
Mr. Bosi said no.
Mr. French told the AHAC:
• The BCC originally approached this issue to determine whether a property owner
would lose their homestead exemption. We determined that for the main dwelling,
no, but they would have to pay market rate on taxes as a non-homesteaded
property for the guest house.
• Is it still a viable option? Yes.
• The BCC’s other concern was that they don’t want to have vacation rental by
owners in these communities because there’s already a myriad of code
enforcement complaints and neighborhoods that are saying people are coming in
who are not invested in this community, they drive really fast, there could be
weddings with 50-60 cars and loud noises, so that changes the dynamic of their
community.
• The Estates were originally zoned to be a low-intensity area.
• The BCC has asked us to look at options. There would clearly have to be
community meetings to determine sentiment. We haven’t predetermined anything
other than we’re trying to determine the baseline of what the statute allows. Is
there a way we could put restrictions on this?
Commissioner Hall asked if they could add an ADU overlay with an affordable-housing
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component for conditional use over the Western Estates.
Mr. Bosi said they could. He didn’t know if that would trump the allowances and hands-
off components we’ve discussed. They’d have to determine that. He’ll be back next
month to give the AHAC an update on where they are and will look at the questions
they’ve raised and also start to think about what types of questionnaires to develop for
public meetings to gain feedback. We’ll share with you where we are in the process in the
next couple of months.
Chairman Hruby said that from a policy standpoint, it would be a good example of
where government can make an action that could have an impact without taxpayer dollars
being attached. It’s an adjustment, figuring out how to use rules and state statutes and
modifying them so it would allow someone to make a few extra bucks by housing
families without any skin off of our nose, so policy-wise, this is an excellent example.
Mr. Bosi said that with housing and housing availability, the spatial mismatch is the
problem with where the jobs,where housing is and opportunities for housing. We know
the Urban Estates west of 951 is in an area that’s going to be surrounded by opportunities
for good services and employment.
c. Housing Trust Fund Explanation
Mr. Giblin said there’s a series of sheets in the packet that starts with an Executive
Summary to recommend an Approved Guidelines Plan-Associated Policy Resolution for
the Local Affordable Housing Trust Fund. This went to the BCC in October 2019. Ms.
Waller asked for an update on how the program was running and what the process is to
accept applications for funding. Kristi Sonntag, director of the Community Human
Services Division, is on the line via Zoom and can provide background on that.
Ms. Sonntag apologized for not being able to be there. The Housing Trust Fund funds
will be made available for applications in our supplemental application round that will
come out late this summer or early fall. The documentation Cormac provided in your
packet with the allowable uses will be part of the application process. She’d be happy to
answer any questions.
Chairman Hruby asked how that dovetails with the RFP process for the $20 million.
Mr. Giblin told the AHAC:
• That’s a separate funding source and process.
• They may parallel each other in some ways, but this is for the Local Housing
Trust Fund, which is money is deposited by developer commitments. In some
cases, it’s a density-bonus payoff from refinances. There could be private
donations that go into this fund. It’s a hodgepodge of funding sources that go into
the Local Housing Trust Fund, as outlined in the Executive Summary.
• Surtax dollars are specifically from the penny surtax approved by voters.
• There’s a more exhaustive list of uses for the money in the Housing Trust Fund.
Several are listed in the Executive Summary.
• The surtax dollars are limited only to workforce housing and land acquisition
under Florida statutes, so the process may look similar, such as a letter of interest
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and an application cycle and review by Procurement, the Community & Human
Services Division, Real Property and the County Manager’s Office, but there are
two separate funding sources and two separate processes.
A discussion ensued and the following points were made:
• It’s administered by Kristi’s group and the Real Estate section.
• The policy the board passed in February for local surtax dollars said the board
could either advertise availability or say it’s available for proposals.
• It probably won’t be an annual cycle.
• They haven’t released any RFPs yet.
• The county is working on leads daily but has nothing concrete now.
• Nothing has been released.
• Funds were allocated to the Housing Trust Fund last year through the regular
budget cycle, and they’re held in a fund separate from Community & Human
Services, so they’re set aside. There is $500,000 there.
• There are two funds, the $500,000 and the funds Cormac spoke of, the traditional
Local Housing Trust Fund dollars, which come from a myriad of deposits like
density bonus pay and developer commitments, etc.
• It’s the intent of the board to support affordable-housing development, so if a
developer comes through the process with Cormac, through the Land Trust, and
applies and they need additional funding to support their project and pro forma,
they could then apply through the traditional application round through
Community & Human Services, which has an application review and ranking
committee. The board ultimately awards the funds.
• There are two separate accounts and two separate RFP processes that are funding
out of both those accounts.
7. STAFF AND COMMITTEE GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
The Haven PUD – Scheduled for BCC May 23 (Cormac Giblin)
Mr. Giblin said this is an update from your last meeting, when there was a presentation
about The Haven PUD. You took action advising the chairman to write a letter of support
for the concept of the project to the Board of County Commissioners. That letter has been
signed and sent, and the project is going to the board of County Commissioners for
Growth Management Plan and zoning approval on Tuesday, May 23, if you are
interested.
Chairman Hruby asked if there’s a time certain.
Commissioner Hall said it’s at 10 a.m.
8. NEW BUSINESS
a. Florida Housing Coalition update for the Live Local Act (Steve Chairman Hruby)
Chairman Hruby told the AHAC:
• He sent this information to Sarah.
• He attended a Florida Housing Coalition meeting and they gave a 1½-hour
webinar on the Live Local Act, their legal interpretation and training on it.
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• It was high level and he sent her the four handouts they provided, which Cormac
and Sarah attached to the agenda packet.
• There’s a link to watch the webinar. It offers a very good summary of the issues.
• They’re now going to drill down and provide four more webinars.
• The next one is June 15 and for us, it’s the most important. It’s on density and
height and all the zoning issues.
• When he receives the link information, he’ll send it to Cormac.
• There were 650 people on the webinar last week, so if you have the time go into
that link, it takes you to a PowerPoint and they have a discussion and answer
questions.
• There are still some unintended consequences and issues that are still not well-
defined.
• When we asked about that, they told us to talk to our local attorney about it.
• There are many interpretations that they’ll be going through over the next year.
One of the biggest was heightened density and waivers on real-estate tax. Those
are the biggest issues that need to get resolved.
• He encourages them to tune in to the June 15th webinar. It’ll be very beneficial.
b. Recurring AHAC Date and Time – Third Monday of each month at 2 p.m.
Mr. Giblin said they want to confirm that this time and place works, 2 p.m., the third
Monday of the month. That’s when the room was available and worked with the
commissioner’s schedule and anyone else that we could get here. That will be the
standing time moving forward.
Ms. Waller said that time has been a long-standing NABOR government issues meeting
time and that affects everything we bring forth to Collier County, so she must go to that.
We’re not holding that meeting today because we spent a week in D.C., so that
constitutes our meeting. She’s here today, but can’t make it in the future due to that 3
p.m. meeting. She could come for a half-hour and leave, so 2 p.m. will be very difficult.
Mr. French said they will continue to work with each of them individually and try to get
back to the 8:30 a.m. meeting time. We bounce around with other committees and we’ve
got to make sure we advertise it.
Commissioner Hall asked what happened to the 8:30 a.m. meeting time.
Ms. Waller said 2 p.m. is horrible and the third Monday is bad for her. She serves on the
NABOR board of directors and the AHAC would then have another seat open soon if that
was the time.
Commissioner Hall said they like meetings closer to coffee time.
Ms. Waller said the later meetings mean they will be stuck in traffic going home.
Chairman Hruby noted that this is the first time he had to be late. He had a Gulfshore
Business luncheon. They lost two to three people when the AHAC met in the afternoons,
but when it was a morning meeting, they never lost anyone.
[A discussion ensued over what to do.]
9.
10.
l!{ay 15. 2023
Mr. French said he's off today. He's at the point where he loses vacation hours and he's
already converted almost 700 hours to sick time and has never taken a sick day. We don't
get payouts. The meeting time didn't work for him either. That's why he listened on
Zoom first before he got here today. We're also working with Derek Perry on an item to
the BCC to advertise changes to the ordinances that created both DSAC and the AHAC.
Once we get approval from the board, then we'll bring it back to the board for adoption.
These are for non-voting members from each committee to be able to serve on the other
committee. That way you're a part of the discussion with the development community.
Ms. Waller thanked him for coming in on his day off.
ADJOURN
Mr. Buntzman made a motion to adjourn. Second by Ms. lYaller. The motion passed
unanimously, 5-0.
NEXT MEETING DATE
2 p.m. Jtne19,2023
Conference Room 6091610
Growth Management Community Development Department
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was
adjourned by the order of the chairman at 4:05 p.m.
COUNTYE
COM卜 IITTEE
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