CEB Minutes 04/27/2023 April 27, 2023
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, April 27, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Code
Enforcement Board, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Robert Kaufman
Sue Curley
Kathleen Elrod
Lee Rubenstein
Tarik N. Ayasun
James York, Alternate
John Fuentes, (Excused)
Danny Blanco (Resigned)
Zully Ruiz, (Resigned)
ALSO PRESENT:
Helen Buchillon, Code Enforcement
Jeff Letourneau, Manager of Investigations
Patrick White, Attorney to the Board
April 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning, everybody. I'd
like to call the Code Enforcement Board to order.
Respondents may be limited to 20 minutes for case presentation
unless additional time is granted by the Board. Persons wishing to
speak on any agenda item will receive up to five minutes unless the
time is adjusted by the Chairman.
All parties participating in the public hearing are asked to
observe Robert's Rules of Order and speak one at a time so that the
court reporter can record all statements being made.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore,
may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is
made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which
the appeal is to be based. Neither Collier County nor the Code
Enforcement Board shall be responsible for providing this record.
So if we'll all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen, why don't we start
with the roll call.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir. Good morning. For the record,
Helen Buchillon, Code Enforcement.
Mr. Robert Kaufman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Ms. Kathleen Elrod?
MS. ELROD: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Ms. Sue Curley?
MS. CURLEY: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. Lee Rubenstein?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. Tarik Ayasun?
MR. AYASUN: Here.
April 27, 2023
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MS. BUCHILLON: And, Mr. James York?
MR. YORK: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. Danny Blanco has resigned and, also,
Ms. Zully Ruiz has resigned.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I have the minutes.
MS. BUCHILLON: I'm sorry. And Mr. John Fuentes is
excused.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Good.
Anybody have any questions on the minutes? They were sent
out last week.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, we'll accept the
minutes as written. Get an approval from the Board.
MS. CURLEY: Motion to accept the minutes as written.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Which brings us to the agenda. Any changes, he asks?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir. We have two stipulations. First
stipulation under hearings, No. 5, CESD20220008207, Walter A.
Navarro, Krissia I. Palacios, Graciela E. Hughes, and John Hughes.
Second stipulation, No. 1, CESD20220010706, Christa Benoit.
April 27, 2023
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And now the withdrawns.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yep.
MS. BUCHILLON: Under public hearings, A, motions, motion
for extension of time, No. 2, CELU20220007487, Shannon
Wilkinson and Kathalina Wilkinson, has been drawn. Violation has
been abated.
Under public hearings, D, hearings, No. 4, CEVR20210008200,
Jonjames, LLC, and Steven Pruchansky, has been withdrawn due to
compliance efforts.
Number 6, CELU20230001416, Daniel Vecino, has been
withdrawn, due to violation has been abated.
Number 7, CESD20210004863, Adriano Cordero, Soraya
Cordero, Adriano Cordero, Jr., and Aldo Cordero, has been
withdrawn. Permit has been issued.
Number 9, CESD20220008942, Salvatori Iannotta, has been
withdrawn due to compliance efforts.
Number 13, CESD20220008130, Marina Nikolic, has been
withdrawn due to compliance efforts.
And under old business, motion for imposition of fines, No. 6,
CESD20210001545, First Property Yanza, LLC, has been
withdrawn. Permit has been issued.
And, No. 12, CES20210008383, Andrew's Ventures, LLC, has
been withdrawn. The past due opps costs were paid.
MR. WHITE: And I, Mr. Chairman, have one other request to
amend the agenda to give a report under Roman Numeral IX. That
would be with respect to the CEB rules, the revised rules. Just a
brief discussion for the Board's information.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Can I get a motion from
the Board to approve the amended agenda?
MS. ELROD: Motion to accept the amended agenda.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
April 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MS. CURLEY: Helen, I had just one question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: The first withdrawal, was that Case No. 1 or
3 -- I mean, No. 2 or 3?
MS. BUCHILLON: Under regular hearings or -- the first
withdraw was under motion for extension of time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That was No. 2.
MS. BUCHILLON: Number 2.
MS. CURLEY: The last three numbers 833?
MR. WHITE: 7487. It's A.1.2. I'm sorry A.2, under public
hearings, Roman Numeral V.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's Wilkinson and Wilkinson. We
got it.
MS. CURLEY: Thank you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Before we start the meeting, I was
informed that today is the last day for our esteemed leader of Code
Enforcement, who's out in the audience holding his head, Mike
Ossorio.
So, Mike, I forgot how many years you've been here. Come up
and make a speech or something.
April 27, 2023
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MR. OSSORIO: No speeches necessary.
Mike Ossorio, director of Code Enforcement. Thirty years.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Not in Code Enforcement.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, I started in Code. Code -- was five
years in Code, and then I did some building and licensing stuff, and
now I'm back in Code.
MR. AYASUN: Thirty years.
MR. OSSORIO: So we're not done yet. I still have a couple
more years in Park and Recs, and there's a -- Tom Iandimarino is
coming soon. He should be here in a few minutes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll mark him down as late.
MR. OSSORIO: He is late. And then -- he's a good leader,
and I think he's going to take Code Enforcement to a new level, so
I'm pleased.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, we want to thank you for
your --
MR. AYASUN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- I don't know how many years in
Code, but your 30 years is a long time for a guy who's whose only 40
years old.
MR. OSSORIO: I'm just 39, actually.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, excuse me.
MR. OSSORIO: But thank you very much. It's about the
team. It's an effort, and it's a -- this is a great bunch of group [sic],
and I wish them well. And I'm here if they ever need some advice,
but I think they're going to move into a good direction. Jeff and
Colleen are going to do a great job in the future.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So now that you're moving to
Parks and Recreation, we'll be able to park near the beach
someplace?
MR. OSSORIO: Yes.
April 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Collier Boulevard or something.
MR. OSSORIO: Yes. Parking citations and sea turtles, so
watch out.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. OSSORIO: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. LETOURNEAU: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I've been told that from the back here
only you and Lee can be heard right now. So if the rest of the
members could pull their mics towards them when they speak.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Lee, you're okay. You and I are
the only two they can hear, so this will be a quick meeting.
Okay. You want to -- Helen, did you turn us all on? No.
Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: I knocked the phone down.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So we'll start out with the
stipulations. Number 5 is first.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir. Number 5, CESD20220008207,
Walter A. Navarro, Krissia I. Palacios, Graciela E. Hughes, and John
Hughes.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. PACKARD: I do.
MS. PALACIOS: Yes.
MR. NAVARRO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We don't do anything without
Helen.
April 27, 2023
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MR. PACKARD: I hear you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's the next stip. Okay.
MR. WHITE: Visualizer.
MR. PACKARD: Ready, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MR. PACKARD: Good morning. For the record, Jason
Packard, Collier County Code Enforcement.
Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall: Pay operational costs in the amount of 59.28 incurred in the
prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing; abate all
violations by ceasing and desisting -- desist the use of the
unpermitted garage conversion and disconnect all unpermitted
utilities until a valid permit, inspections, and certificate of
completion/occupancy has been issued within three days of this
hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed until the violation
is abated;
Two, obtaining all required Collier County building permits or
demolition permit, inspections, and certificate of
completion/occupancy for the garage conversion within 120 days of
this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed until the
violation is abated.
Respondent must notify of Code Enforcement within 24 hours
of abatement of violation and request the investigator perform a site
inspection to confirm compliance;
That if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the county
may abate the violation using any method to bring the violation into
compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's
Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement, and all costs of
abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
Can you state your name, each of you, on the mic. Bring it
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down. There you go.
MS. PALACIOS: Krissia Palacios.
MS. NAVARRO: Walter Navarro.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You've agreed to the
stipulation?
MS. PALACIOS: Yes.
MR. NAVARRO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any problem with the dates?
MR. NAVARRO: We're, like, kind of ready with all the
paperwork, so I think 120 days will be fine.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And if you can't make it,
you know who to contact, right?
MS. PALACIOS: Yes.
MR. NAVARRO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody want to make a
motion?
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the stipulation as
written.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second. All those
in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
It carries unanimously --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, you're opposed, or are you just
April 27, 2023
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late?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: No, I'm in.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Okay. Thank you.
MR. NAVARRO: Thank you.
MR. PACKARD: Thanks, guys.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next stipulation, No. 1,
CESD20220010706, Christa Benoit.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. PACKARD: I do.
MS. BENOIT: Yes, I do.
MR. BENOIT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name on the
microphone for us? You need to bring it down or grow, one of the
two. Okay.
MS. BENOIT: My name is Christa Benoit.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Very good.
And your name?
MR. BENOIT: My name is Joseph Benoit. I'm her son.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, very good.
Jason, you want to read the stipulation into the record for us.
MR. PACKARD: Let's do it.
For the record, Jason Packard, Collier County Code
Enforcement Board.
Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall: Pay operational costs in the amount of $59.28 incurred in the
prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing;
Number 2, abate all violations by:
One, cease and desist the use of the unpermitted garage
conversion and disconnect all unpermitted utilities until a valid
April 27, 2023
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permit, inspections, and certificate of completion/occupancy has been
issued within three days of this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will
be imposed until the violation is abated;
Number 2, obtaining all Collier County building permits or
demolition permits, inspections, and certificate of
completion/occupancy for the garage conversion within 150 days of
this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed until the
violation is abated.
Respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24 hours of
abatement of the violation and request the investigator perform a site
inspection to confirm compliance; that if the respondent fails to abate
the violation, the county may abate the violation using any method to
bring the violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the
Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this
agreement, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the
property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Can I assume that
someone's going to check to make sure that the --
MR. PACKARD: I'll be there Monday, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, great.
Ma'am, you understand everything that you agreed to?
MS. BENOIT: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. No problem with the 150
days?
MS. BENOIT: No, no problem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Very good.
MS. BENOIT: Because I buy the house like that, but nothing I
can do. Two years ago, I buy the house. They send me like that. I
don't know nothing about the garage.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's why God invented the word
"due diligence." They want you to take a look at the thing before
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you buy it so those things happen [sic].
Okay. Anybody want to make a motion from the Board?
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the stipulation as
written.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thank you very much.
MR. PACKARD: Thanks, folks.
MS. BENOIT: Thank you.
MR. AYASUN: She bought it like that; that's why he said "due
diligence."
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do we have any late-breaking
stipulations?
MS. BUCHILLON: No, but we do have a change.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We do?
MS. BUCHILLON: Under public hearings, No. 11,
CESD20220003348, Harry A. Romano and Liza Jeanne Romano, has
been withdrawn. Permit has been issued.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the
Board to amend the agenda.
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to amend the agenda.
April 27, 2023
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MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And it's seconded. All those in
favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Which brings us to?
MS. BUCHILLON: Motion for extension of time. Number 1,
CESD20210001477, Four Amigos 3, LLC,
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MR. ALLISON: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MR. ALLISON: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sir, could you state your name on
the mic for us.
MR. ALLISON: Jay Allison.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you are?
MR. ALLISON: Managing member of Amigos Naples, Four
Amigos 3.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And before Patrick asks
you the question, are you authorized to speak in their behalf?
MR. ALLISON: I am.
April 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Does that make you happy?
MR. WHITE: Absolutely. And if I may preempt the county
and the respondent, the Board issued its order on September 22 of '22
and gave an extension of time to comply until November 21 of '22,
but the current extension of time request is after the date for
compliance, and the fines began to accrue at the rate of $200 a day on
November 22nd of '22 and continue through till present.
Did that help? And you were provided, I believe in your
packet, copies of all of the prior orders, including the recorded
original order finding violation.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ryan, could you just give us a
quickie summary on this before we talk about it.
MR. CATHEY: I believe that both their previous requests were
prior to fines accruing, so I don't know if the fines are or are not
accruing, but...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We can figure out $200 a day for
several months is a considerable amount of money.
MR. CATHEY: Yeah. Just as a point of order there. I'll let
the respondent start with their request, give you an update on the
permit and everything.
MR. ALLISON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. ALLISON: We have obtained the permit for the
improvements that were made in the facility, and that permit -- the
work has actually been done, and we're in the process of getting the
inspections for the work that we've completed so far.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: When did you receive the permit?
MR. ALLISON: I guess it was about four or five weeks ago,
Ryan? About that. Six weeks ago?
MR. CATHEY: Approximately.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's holding up the inspections?
April 27, 2023
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MR. ALLISON: Well, we're working with the Building
Department, and they're requiring some additional information, and
that's what we're working with. So it's the Building Department
getting with the contractor and our designer, Al Quattrone &
Associates, to get the inspections completed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And how much time are you
looking for an extension of?
MR. ALLISON: I would look for 120 days. I don't think
we're going to need it, but we're right in the middle of trying to get
the inspections completed.
MS. CURLEY: So I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MS. CURLEY: So you received your permit from the county
four weeks ago?
MR. ALLISON: Approximately.
MS. CURLEY: And are they doing, like, a permit after the
fact?
MR. CATHEY: Yeah. So the work was all done prior. They
pulled the permit.
MS. CURLEY: Right.
MR. CATHEY: All the inspections are, essentially, after the
fact now. And my understanding from Al Quattrone and Jay has
been they've been having issues getting subcontractors to come in
and complete the inspections and they're working with Fred Clum,
our building official now, to try to resolve some of these issues with
the inspections.
MS. CURLEY: All right. I was just reading the first
stipulation agreement signed by Jay Allison dated May -- or
March 26th of 2021. So it took you two years to get a permit?
MR. ALLISON: Yeah, we had to go --
MS. CURLEY: For work that was already done.
April 27, 2023
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MR. ALLISON: I'm sorry?
MS. CURLEY: For work that was already done.
MR. ALLISON: We had to hire a designer, which was Al
Quattrone, to do the design work and make sure everything that we
were doing complied with the current code. There were a number of
issues that the county had with construction, so that's why we
engaged Al to do that.
So we developed a plan, and there were several back-and-forth,
on the plans, issues between Quattrone and the county that took a
while to get resolved, and they finally did get resolved, which
resulted in the issuance of the permit just several weeks ago.
MS. CURLEY: Was this work done a long time ago, or was it
done by the Amigos?
MR. CATHEY: When the complaint first came in, the work
was already done, when this case originated by somebody else prior
to the current tenants in the building --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CATHEY: -- my understanding.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're not here to hear the case.
We're only here to determine whether to grant additional time.
During this time, you realize the fines continue to accrue? And I'm
guessing that, in the future at some point, you'll be back here looking
for some sort of abatement of those fines.
MR. WHITE: And just for the record, let me clarify that there
was a subsequent extension of time that was prior to the imposition,
but that ran out on January 27 of '23. I stated incorrectly it was
November of '22 -- November 22nd of '22. And, in fact, the actual
date that the fines began to accrue is January 27 of '23.
So he's still procedurally in the same position. It's just that the
fines didn't begin until a couple months later.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: How confident are you that you
April 27, 2023
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can get everything resolved in the next four weeks?
MR. ALLISON: You know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Some
of these things are beyond my control. So the issue with the county
and the inspections is something that I need to rely on my designer,
Al Quattrone --
MR. WHITE: Mr. Chairman -- I apologize, Mr. Allison.
Apparently there is a fourth?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah. I have it up on the screen right
now. I apologize. Basically, the respondent is granted an extension
of time to comply with the Board's order finding violations until
April 26th, 2023.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's a continuance rather than an
extension.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, it does say extension on the --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. I don't know why that's
done. We haven't done an extension of time in years.
MR. WHITE: It is an extension of time, but it's an extension of
time to comply because the fines at that point haven't begun to run.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
MR. WHITE: They would have begun today unless you grant
him an extension of time. So I re-apologize for being incorrect
again. But, apparently, the records aren't all ones that I obtain as
part of my packet. So they're in the record now.
MR. LETOURNEAU: It's the county's fault. I apologize.
MS. CURLEY: I agree, it has been -- I was trying to follow the
same way you were. That was why I asked the questions.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let me go back to --
MR. WHITE: No fines.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're here for a request for an
extension of time/continuance. How's that?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes, yes, sir. And the county would
April 27, 2023
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be -- would rather a continuance than an extension at this point.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's correct. When you have a
continuance, the fines continue to accrue. So that's the motivation, if
you will, to get the job completed. I realize some of this stuff is not
under your control, but if you go back far enough, at some point it
was. So having said all of that, let me go back to my original
question. Will four weeks be enough time? That would be our next
meeting.
Helen, when's our next date, meeting?
MS. BUCHILLON: May 25th.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you think you can get
everything done by May 25th?
MR. ALLISON: If I can get the county to -- and Al Quattrone
to get the inspections done. Some of this is beyond my control. I
will do my best to do that. I -- all I can do is do my best.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand. I tell my wife that
all the time.
MR. ALLISON: Every day's a new day, right?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay. Ryan, in your opinion, how long
do you think it's going to take?
MR. CATHEY: I can't comfortably answer that.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: So you don't know how long it's going to
take, he doesn't know how long it's going to take, and everybody's
asking for extensions and nobody knows for how long?
MR. CATHEY: I can't say -- I can't speak for the Building
Department on their scheduling for the inspections, and so...
MS. CURLEY: Well, I mean, what -- I think what I understood
was -- what he said was he got the permit, and then the county's
asking for more things. Well, that's what happens when you
do -- when things are done without a permit. You have to go
backwards to go forwards.
April 27, 2023
Page 19
So -- but it's still -- it's been two years since the original
violation, and I don't see that the owner's name has changed since
March two years ago. So I just don't get the -- I don't get the stall. I
don't get it.
And I see that it says that there's -- converted into a classroom.
So is there class -- is this being rented, or is somebody occupying it?
I mean, are there emergency exits there? Is it a life, health, safety
thing? Is there plumbing installed? There's all these things we just
went through with these last two stipulations when we gave them
three days to, you know, get out of a garage, but this thing's been
going on for two years. We don't know, if there's a fire there and
somebody gets stuck back in a classroom that doesn't have an
emergency exit -- it's just a lot of questions.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Questions.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well taken.
You have a question?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Yes, for Jeff.
Since he's not sure, and Ryan's not sure, can you give your best
guestimate?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, I mean -- for the record, Jeff
Letourneau, Collier County Code Enforcement.
My best estimate right now, just looking -- three months, I
would say, would be plenty of time at this point to get this thing
wrapped up, hopefully.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And during that time,
should someone make the motion for a continuance, the fines would
continue to accrue. The respondent would be back here again once
this thing has been CO'ed, and we can impose or abate the fine at that
time.
MR. WHITE: Just a point of clarification as to the form of the
April 27, 2023
Page 20
motion. As it's stated on the agenda, and as it's set forth in your
rules, this is a motion to extend the time to comply. The only cases
that are continuances are cases that you have not heard and found
violations on. Everything else is some species of an extension of
time, even an extension of time to impose fines.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I don't want to get into a word
discussion.
MR. WHITE: Neither do I.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. The extension that was
granted runs out today. Next week there will be days during the
week where there will be fines imposed based on the last -- what does
the last extension say?
MR. WHITE: Yesterday was the 26th of April. It's the date
that the prior motion for extension of time to comply expired. His
request is timely, and if the Board approves any time that's an
extension of time to comply, no fines will begin to accrue.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Then how about if I make
a motion that we will permit the respondent four months to come into
compliance, and the original fine will be imposed during that period
of time from today on?
MS. CURLEY: Okay. Excuse me.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hold on. Hold on. Let me get
my answer.
MR. WHITE: I believe the answer is you deny the request for
the motion to extend time to comply. The fines will begin to accrue
today as a matter of course.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we'll hear it today.
MR. WHITE: And it's not on the agenda for today. He hasn't
abated as of today, but it will be put on the agenda, I believe, at some
point, mercifully after my tenure as your attorney has ended, and you
will be able to then consider the case and decide whether you want to
April 27, 2023
Page 21
impose fines, mitigate, or abate the fines. If you want the fines to
begin to accrue today, the only way to do it is to deny the motion
that's before you.
MS. CURLEY: I'd like to make a motion to deny the
respondent's extension of time. I think it's been two years and one
month, and that's enough.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'll second that.
Any discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. One opposed. It passes.
So this motion for extension of time is not granted. Now,
ordinarily, in the past, what we have done is we put it on the agenda
for today since the respondent is present. Are you saying -- and I
don't know whether the respondent is able to discuss it today or not.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, as far as -- as far as a continuance
or an imposition?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well --
MR. WHITE: Imposition.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well -- I mean, due to the fact that the
time ran out yesterday, it wasn't put on this agenda.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So, in all likelihood, it
would be on the agenda for next month.
MR. LETOURNEAU: More than likely, yes, sir.
April 27, 2023
Page 22
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: Oh, no.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, depending on -- you know, if we
can prove that they're making steady progress at this point and get
some inspections done, we would take a look at it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's up to the county --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- whether they bring it back to us
or not.
MR. WHITE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So as far as this case and
the extension of time -- motion for extension of time, we are done.
We agree, Patrick.
MR. WHITE: Absolutely, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: Matter's concluded.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We're done. Thank you
for your motion, Sue.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, under public hearings, D
hearings, No. 1 -- or no, sorry.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. We don't want to hear that
one again.
MS. BUCHILLON: Number 2 -- I'm sorry. Number 2,
CEOCC20220010833, Maykoll Manso Perez and Anelys Navarro
Silveira. They actually have two cases, No. 2 and No. 3.
MR. AYASUN: They're not here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Actually, I just got notice that they
became a stip.
MR. WHITE: Both cases?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: So let's move on to the next one, and
April 27, 2023
Page 23
then we'll -- yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Both cases are stip?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We'll fit that in after.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case will be No. 8,
CESD20220010899, Suso 4 Mission Hills, LP, and Slate Asset
Management, LP.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. Everybody
sworn? Oh, the invisible man.
MR. LETOURNEAU: We're just waiting on Ryan. I don't
think he was prepared to be up so quickly, but...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He looks like Ryan.
Could you adjust your microphone so we can hear you? There
you go. It has a mind of its own.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MS. THEODORE: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And your name on the
microphone.
MS. THEODORE: Sue Theodore.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. THEODORE: I'm the property manager for the shopping
center.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Okay, Ryan. You're up.
MR. CATHEY: For the record, Investigator Ryan Cathey,
Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CESD20220010899 dealing
with a violation of Collier County Land Development Code 04-41, as
amended, Section 10.02.03.G, clothing donation bins in parking
April 27, 2023
Page 24
spaces not on the approved site plan at 7550 Mission Hills Drive,
Naples, Florida, 34119; Folio 60204200044.
Service was given on December 15, 2022.
This case originated as a complaint to our department. On
December 8, 2022, I arrived on site and observed the bins. I later
spoke with Mark Douglas from the company that owns the bins and
advised him of the violation. Property management was also
notified, and a notice of violation was served. Since then there's
been no action taken to remove the bins or add them to the site plan.
March of 2023, a new property manager took over the site. I
advised her what needed to be done. As of today, the violation
remains.
Case evidence: I have an aerial of the property, one photograph
I took on December 8, 2022, and one from yesterday, April 26th, and
the current approved site plan.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Has the respondent seen
the photo --
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- photos?
Do you have any objection to the photos?
MS. THEODORE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the
Board to accept the photos.
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the photos.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
April 27, 2023
Page 25
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. LETOURNEAU: All right. I believe this is the
December 8th photo?
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And here is a photo from yesterday.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It looks just like the first photo.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And then you wanted a site plan.
MR. CATHEY: Pages 6 through 9 depict the parking area.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I can understand that.
MR. CATHEY: Or Page 7 here, at the very top.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Right up here.
MR. CATHEY: That's where they're located right now.
MR. AYASUN: There are parking spaces.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Note that they are not indicated
on the site plan.
MR. CATHEY: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And anything else, Ryan?
MR. CATHEY: That's it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Have you had discussions
with the respondent?
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The new respondent?
MR. CATHEY: Yes, I have.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And?
MR. CATHEY: I'll let her discuss --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand that. I was going to
April 27, 2023
Page 26
ask you what --
MR. CATHEY: My understanding is they have a lease
agreement with the company that owns the bins. They're currently
working -- attempting to work with Zoning right now to see about
amending their site plan to include the bins.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Site plan work generally
takes months.
MR. CATHEY: It can be very lengthy.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right. Okay.
Ma'am?
MS. THEODORE: Yes. I walked into something here.
I did start -- first of March started getting all of this information.
Ryan's been very helpful giving me a couple of different names in
Zoning. I've reached out; waiting to hear from them. I have to get
the correct application first and then find out what we need to do for
them to amend the site plan correctly. These are, like he said, bins.
They're not just people drop them off. They are actually a tenant of,
so we need to do what we can to fix this the right way with the
county as well.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Now, I understand that you
represent the shopping center --
MS. THEODORE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- however, the people that are
responsible for the bins signed an agreement with that company?
MS. THEODORE: Yes. They are like a tenant, if you will.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And have you had the same
discussion with them?
MS. THEODORE: I have not. You mean with the tenant?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, if the --
MS. THEODORE: With the textile company?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- if the bins -- if they signed an
April 27, 2023
Page 27
agreement with the company that provides the bins and they're sitting
on the property that's owned by the shopping center and they're in
violation, I would ask them to, until this is resolved, relocate the bins
inside their facility or whatever they need to do.
MS. THEODORE: It's -- it's kind of unusual. It's not like that.
I've never seen this before. They truly are -- excuse me -- like, those
clothing bins where people just go and leave your old clothing.
Excuse me. So, I mean, my thought is, as with ownership and as
representation of ownership, we need to do what's right with the
county because we've accepted a tenant. So that's -- that's my goal.
That's what I'm working for is to get everybody squared away --
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
MS. THEODORE: -- if that makes sense.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sue.
MS. CURLEY: So if the tenant signed a lease with your -- the
owner of your company --
MS. THEODORE: Correct.
MS. CURLEY: -- isn't the lease in violation? Because surely
there's a standard clause in the lease which states that your behavior
or your actions or whatever you do will follow in line with the state,
county, and city codes, right? So you have a violation of a lease
agreement with a tenant --
MS. THEODORE: Well --
MS. CURLEY: -- okay?
MS. THEODORE: -- it's not -- it is an agreement, and I'm sure
it says that. I know that they have these on multiple properties.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. So what my point is -- and you're
making money on this, your company is?
MS. THEODORE: They pay rent.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. So they need to be removed
immediately -- they should have been removed in December either by
April 27, 2023
Page 28
you or your tenant -- until they're legally allowed to be there -- or
your company is having a lease that's a violation of the lease [sic]
whether it was your taking or not.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We are here to hear the
case. So the first thing we need to find out, whether a violation
exists or not.
MS. CURLEY: Well, I'll make a motion a violation exists.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. YORK: I second it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second. All those
in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Nay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: A point of information, if I may, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: Given what I believe is the relatively minor
nature of the modification to the existing Site Development Plan,
SDP, this, more likely than not, would fall into the category of an
SDPI, Site Development Plan Insubstantial, which is a little bit less
onerous to get through the system. But, still, there would be a
substantial period of time. Obviously, if the application for
president SDPI has yet to have been filed, it hasn't even begun to
grind its way through the system.
So that's why I'm offering the added information for your
conversation. And just one -- if, ma'am, you can tell us the name of
April 27, 2023
Page 29
the corporation or business that you are part of as a property
manager.
MS. THEODORE: Suso 4 Mission Hills at this location.
MR. WHITE: Okay.
MS. THEODORE: I mean, JLL is who I work for.
MR. WHITE: That was the question, ma'am.
MS. THEODORE: Sorry.
MR. WHITE: JLL?
MS. THEODORE: Jones, Lang, LaSalle.
MR. WHITE: I'm not familiar.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So we would consider what you
just said in the amount of time that the Board would give as a time to
come into compliance; however, right now it's in violation. We just
voted that.
MS. CURLEY: So I have some discussion on this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MS. CURLEY: So I can understand that somebody would file
a complaint about this, because these become, like, free dumpsters.
If something doesn't fit in the little book bin opening, then they leave
it there, and it piles up, and then the shopping center doesn't take care
of it, and then Mark Douglas, whoever he is, he doesn't care, because
he's not responded to you, and then it just becomes an eyesore. And
so then everybody says, just like she's saying right now, it's not our
thing, you know. Well, it is the thing, and it becomes an eyesore.
So the preventative maintenance here is that it doesn't have the
right permit because, if it did, then the stipulation of the site
agreement would, then, include that they have to maintain the area
around it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, I'd like to find out
from Ryan what he is suggesting.
MR. CATHEY: Recommendation: That the Code
April 27, 2023
Page 30
Enforcement Board orders the respondent to pay all operational costs
in the amount of $59.28 incurred in the prosecution of this case
within 30 days of this hearing and abate all violations by: 1, obtain
all required Collier County approvals and/or building permits,
inspections, certificate of completion/occupancy for the clothing
donation bins or remove the clothing donation bins from the site
within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank dollars per day
will be imposed until the violation is abated; and, 2, that the
respondent must notify the code enforcement investigator when the
violation has been abated in order to conduct a final inspection to
confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this order, and all
costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let me go back. Do you
have any idea when the paperwork is going to be submitted? And
has the county given you any indication on when they think they can
approve or disapprove it?
MS. THEODORE: I have not received a return call. I'm ready
to submit the paperwork as soon as I speak to them, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The paperwork can't be submitted
until you talk with them?
MS. THEODORE: Correct. I have to find the correct
application. Ryan has given me a few names. I've reached out, sent
some emails. I'm just waiting to hear back from them.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Lee?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Have you contacted the company that
owns the bins and asked them to remove them temporarily?
MS. THEODORE: I have not, but after speaking with this
April 27, 2023
Page 31
board, that would be my next conversation with ownership and with
Textile Recycling while we try to take care of it.
MS. CURLEY: Well, it would just seem like this company that
you work for is a big corporation and that when they get into a
partnership with a franchise -- which is what this company is is a
franchise of bins -- you would think that they would have done better
homework for it.
So I can fill in these blanks, unless somebody wants to chitchat
about this more.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You want to make a
motion? One more. Go ahead, Lee.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: For Ryan. Ryan, is there any place on
the property where these bins could be moved to interim till this is
resolved?
MR. CATHEY: Not that I'm aware of. There's nowhere to
store them inside. No, there's no permitted structure where they
could be stored.
MR. AYASUN: I have one question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. AYASUN: Is the bin company actually paying rent for
this?
MS. THEODORE: Yes.
MR. AYASUN: They are paying rent. So they are a tenant,
correct? Okay.
MS. THEODORE: There is an agreement, yes.
MR. AYASUN: No problem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sue, you want to fill in the
blanks?
MS. CURLEY: Yeah, I'll fill in the blanks. For No. 1, a fine
of $100 per day, and then I give them 15 days to remove.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll second.
April 27, 2023
Page 32
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. Any discussion on the motion?
MS. ELROD: Was this a complaint-driven --
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: Is there any intention in the motion to address
the SDPI aspect, or is it just to have the bins removed?
MS. CURLEY: No. I don't care about that. They should
have done that before they signed the lease. We're not
babying-sitting a big company out of Canada. This is a big franchise
company that operates this way and makes money of off it.
MR. WHITE: I believe the order can be written in a manner
that if they're not removed within 15 days, the fines would begin to
accrue.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, how about after this meeting,
and after -- should this motion pass, that would give ammunition to
the property people to go back to the company that provides the bins
to come up with a solution. And the 15 days is a little bit
troublesome. Our next meeting is in 30 days, so -- but I have no
problem with the 15 days.
MS. CURLEY: It's more than three.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion. Any
more discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let's do it with a show of
April 27, 2023
Page 33
hands.
(Raises hand.) Aye.
MR. YORK: (Raises hand.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (Raises hand.)
MR. AYASUN: (Raises hand.) Aye.
MS. CURLEY: (Raises hand.)
We have three ayes? And --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I was an aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, four [sic] ayes. Motion
passes.
MS. ELROD: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So now you have your
ammunition. You'll get this in writing to take back to them to see
what they'll do to resolve it.
MS. THEODORE: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Thank you.
THE COURT REPORTER: Who was the other one who voted
against it?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Lee [sic].
MR. AYASUN: Lee was against?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, he was for.
MR. AYASUN: For.
THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Who was against? You
said four, but there's six of you.
MR. AYASUN: Up to Lee was "yes."
MR. YORK: I said "aye."
MR. AYASUN: There's one "no."
MS. ELROD: I said no. Fifteen days was not enough.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Two [sic].
MR. YORK: That's five of us.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Done.
April 27, 2023
Page 34
Do you want to go to the next stipulations, Helen?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir. We have two stipulations.
Number 2, CEOCC20220010833, Michael Manso Perez and Anelys
Navarro Silveira. Number 3, CELU20220009724, Michael Manso
Perez and Anelys Navarro Silveira.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If I'm not mistaken, we also have a
request for --
MS. BUCHILLON: I just heard the speaker left.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The speaker left?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I have a speaker on the
desk here, but I guess that's a different kind. Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Helen, you'll have to put those up,
please.
MS. BUCHILLON: Sorry.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. DELIA: I do.
Code Enforcement Board -- good morning. Code Enforcement
Board Investigator, John Delia.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: John, hold on one second. Just let
the record show that the respondent is not present.
MR. DELIA: That's correct. We had an agreement outside.
He does speak Spanish. He didn't have an interpreter with her
today -- with him today; however, he is comfortable with what he
signed. He spoke to an interpreter outside; that's why it took us so
long to come up with a stipulation. And his wife was here and
present, whose name is also on this agreement; however, she had to
be home with her child, but she does know about what is going on
and transpiring today.
April 27, 2023
Page 35
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Very good. We can hear both of
these at the same time and vote of them individually.
MR. DELIA: Very good.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. DELIA: Yes. All right.
The first one will be CEOCC20220010833. Pay operational
costs in the amount of 59.28 incurred in the prosecution of this case
within 30 days of this hearing.
Number 2, abate all violations by: Must obtain an issued valid
business tax receipt for the business or cease and desist such use on
said property within 14 days of this hearing, or a fine of $100 per day
will be imposed until the violation is abated.
Respondents must notify Code Enforcement within 24 hours of
abatement of the violation and request the investigator perform a site
inspection to confirm compliance. Twenty-four-hour notice shall be
phone or fax and made during the workweek. If the violation is
abated 24 hours prior to a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday, then
the notification must be made on the next day that is not a Saturday,
Sunday or legal holiday; that if the respondent fails to abate this
violation, the county may abate the violation using any method to
bring the violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the
Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this
agreement, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the
property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Just a quick summary of
what they're doing. This is --
MR. DELIA: This would be a sandblasting business that was
transpiring on a residential Estates zoned property. What was
happening was that the complainant was aggravated by the noise and
the dust of what was transpiring. We have spoken to the person who
owns the property, and he states that he will cease all activity at this
April 27, 2023
Page 36
moment, and he will get a business tax receipt to run a business from
that location, however only for an office business, not any work
transpiring on the grounds of the place.
MS. CURLEY: All right. Well, I notice that the first
violation -- or the violation was December 7th, so it took a long time.
Were they still doing all this sandblasting up till now?
MR. DELIA: Yes, they were. It was transpiring along. We
were just building our evidence. Unfortunately, the gentleman who
did leave, which was the witness, has a majority of the evidence on
the case. He was very -- he moved away from us where we couldn't
see because the yard is blocked by large fencing, also vegetation
debris -- vegetation, and so we needed some time to make this case.
MS. CURLEY: All right. Well, I'll make a motion to accept
the --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's do the first one first.
MS. CURLEY: The first stipulation ending in 10833, as
written.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion to
accept the --
MS. ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- stipulation and a second. All
those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
April 27, 2023
Page 37
The second one which ends in 9724.
MS. CURLEY: No, I have a problem with that fine. I want it
to be higher, because I feel like if they're sneaky already, I want it
to -- so we can't change this?
MR. DELIA: Well, this one the -- that first one we went
through is just for the business tax receipt. That's not for the land
use. The second one would be -- for the land use is where the fine
increases.
MR. AYASUN: The fine is big here.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah, for 250, though.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. Well, I mean, is that the max we can
do? We can't change this because they're not here, right?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We can go over $1,000; however,
the respondent, who's no longer here, agreed to the 250. We can't
change that unless --
MR. DELIA: The respondent also was notified if there is any
action that does occur, we automatically bring it back in front of the
Board as soon as it happens, so --
MS. CURLEY: Well, you're lucky you have the neighbor to
help you, because I can't imagine how noisy this is.
MR. WHITE: Well, the compliance time is basically 24 hours.
Tomorrow.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah.
MR. WHITE: And so if the notification is given tomorrow, I'm
not sure when the inspection to determine compliance would occur.
But my expectation is that if anything happened that was a continuing
violation over the weekend, even though it hadn't been inspected to
stop, the request to determine that it had stopped would be void, and
at that point the violation would begin until the point in time that it
ceased, and the county would probably bring it back as a repeat
April 27, 2023
Page 38
violation. That's my expectation.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. If they violate this, we want to do an
administrative fine or what -- what is the fines that we're doing?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's if they -- the second
violation.
MR. WHITE: Right, repeat.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: But the way it is right now, I think
that the neighbor who we had the slip for is probably going to be
satisfied with what happened. This is going to stop immediately. I
mean, one day. Immediately. And if it isn't, the 250 will be a cheap
fine compared to what will be imposed. Okay.
MS. CURLEY: All right. I'll make a motion to accept is the
second stipulation, ending in 9724, as written.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. DELIA: Okay, then. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thanks, John.
MR. DELIA: Thank you very much. Have a nice day.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you need any extra sand? No,
never mind. I think they're putting a bunch on the beach.
MR. WHITE: A joke about sandbagging just hangs in the air.
April 27, 2023
Page 39
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, I know it.
Okay. Helen, that brings to us?
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 10 under public hearings,
CESD20220000870, David H. Levine.
MR. AYASUN: Not here.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let the record show nobody's here.
MR. AYASUN: Ryan is coming back.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ryan's a busy guy.
MS. BUCHILLON: We're going to skip that one for now, and
we're going to go to the next one.
Number 12, CELU20220010742, Amy Marie Lowell.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MIGAL: I do.
MS. LOWELL: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name on the
microphone for us, please.
MS. LOWELL: Amy Lowell.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You want to move
that -- now we can all hear you. Great.
Rick, do you want to start things off?
MR. MIGAL: Okay. Good morning. For the record, Rick
Migal, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CELU20220010742 dealing
with the violation of Collier County Land Development Code 04-41,
as amended, Section 1.04.01.A and Section 2.02.03, for illegal
outside storage of, including but not limited to, shipping containers,
operational -- in-operational RVs, in-operational
vehicles -- inoperable, sorry, vehicles, miscellaneous -- miscellaneous
trash and other materials located at 1480 Keri Island Road, Naples,
April 27, 2023
Page 40
Florida, 34120; Folio 002212400005 [sic].
Service was given on February 2nd, 2023.
I would now like to present case details. On December 2nd,
2022, I received a complaint concerning the storage of inoperable
vehicles, RVs, and other miscellaneous materials on the property.
On December 5th, 2022, I met the property owner, Amy Lowell,
outside of the gate of her property, as she was just returning from the
hospital after ankle surgery, as I arrived. I agreed to give her time to
convalesce before being granted access to the property.
On December 27th, 2022, I observed the property from a legal
vantage point at an unimproved lot on a neighboring PUD
community where I witnessed the shipping container, two inoperable
RVs, one camper, as well as miscellaneous items laying on the
property.
I took pictures, and Amy and I kept in contact once every two or
three weeks while she convalesced.
And on February 2nd, 2023, she escorted me around the
property where I was able to witness the document -- and document
with pictures the unlicensed vehicles, RVs, boats, building materials,
and other items that were laying around the grounds of the property.
After the February 9th inspection, I was not able to make contact
with Amy until April 14th when I called her to notify that I was
scheduling her for a hearing. She explained she had been to Miami
for additional surgeries on her ankle and apologized for not
responding. She explained her inability to do the physical work of
cleaning up the property because of her ankle, and I recommended
we meet with the Code Enforcement Board to give her the
opportunity to ask for additional time beyond what I'm able to, as
Code Enforcement, give her.
As of my pre-hearing inspection yesterday, the violation does
remain.
April 27, 2023
Page 41
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can I ask, on the -- it says no cite
address. What is the address of the property?
MR. MIGAL: It's 1480 Keri Island -- where is it? Sorry.
Keri Island Road. I don't know why on the Property Appraiser
website it does not show that address. Just the folio.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MIGAL: But there is -- she does have that address.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you know what the zoning is in
that area as far as --
MR. MIGAL: Ag. It's agricultural.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Agricultural. And how big is the
property, approximately?
MR. MILLER: I think around five acres.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. AYASUN: If I may ask something.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. AYASUN: The violation here says "a shipping
container." Is there just one? You said "containers."
MR. MILLER: There's actually two shipping containers.
MR. AYASUN: Two containers. Okay. And one RV; is that
what it is?
MR. MIGAL: There's one -- there's actually three RVs. From
my original viewpoint, vantage point, I was only able to see one of
them, but once I was on the property, I was able to see the other ones.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now, you said you have
photos.
MR. MIGAL: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And has the respondent
seen the photos?
MR. MIGAL: She has.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you have any objection
April 27, 2023
Page 42
to those photos?
MS. LOWELL: Uh-uh.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the
Board to accept the photos.
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the photos.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Introduce the photos that -- you
know.
MR. MIGAL: I have four pictures taken by me on
December 27th, 2022; 10 pictures taken by me on February 9th,
2023; and I believe three from yesterday's prehearing inspection.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And I'm going to go chronologically
right now.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go in order, too.
MR. LETOURNEAU: That, too.
So, Rick, you're saying that when you wrote your original NOV,
you had not seen all the violations until you got onto the property
later on, correct? You didn't notice the other RVs or --
MR. MIGAL: That is correct. That is correct.
April 27, 2023
Page 43
MR. LETOURNEAU: All right. So this is originally your
first site visit right here, as far as the legal vantage point?
MR. MIGAL: This particular one was from the PUD next door.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. And they are the people that
made the complaint?
MR. MIGAL: And they are, yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Just stop me, anybody, if you
want to go -- I'm just going to take, like, five seconds and go.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Looks like an RV. Do you want
to do a little --
MS. ELROD: Narrating.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Narration.
MR. MIGAL: That, actually, is sitting outside of her property
on the street, as are the two containers which you can see
hidden -- one of them hidden behind the vegetation on the left side
there. And, for the record, that RV that is shown here is now gone.
That's one of the things she's been able to take care of.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: So when you say "outside her
property" -- I know this is a private road. Does the property extend
across the road, or it stops at the road?
MR. WHITE: I guess the question is whether, where it had
been previously, an easement or not.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, it's mute on this RV because it's
gone anyway, so -- correct?
MR. MIGAL: This is true. It's gone.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Are any of those vehicles that
we're about to see or have seen registered?
MR. LETOURNEAU: They don't have valid tags, right?
MR. MIGAL: Most of them did not. I'm just searching my
April 27, 2023
Page 44
memory, as to not sell her short. You know, there may have been
one, but it was inoperable. Most of them are both -- are basically
inoperable and untagged.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. AYASUN: Who owns the vehicles on the thing? Who
owns --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Why don't we wait until the
respondent so we can ask those questions of her.
MR. MIGAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Just go through the pictures.
Uh-huh.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Just stop me at any time you want.
MS. CURLEY: Camaro.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Corvette.
MR. LETOURNEAU: That's it.
MR. MIGAL: The last three were from yesterday's inspection.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now, Lee -- or, Amy, do
you want to give us a --
MS. LOWELL: Basically, it was just my husband's junkyard,
and he passed away, and it's just overwhelming.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand. And you're working
to get all the stuff removed?
MS. LOWELL: I am. I am.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Have you -- I mean, it's probably
enough metal there to --
MS. LOWELL: Right. It's basically what those piles are is
just going to the scrapyard.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: How about the vehicles that are
there?
MS. LOWELL: Most of them are gone now since this. I
mean, all the RVs are gone except the one. I've gotten rid of four
April 27, 2023
Page 45
cars, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you're working on getting
everything cleared up?
MS. LOWELL: I am. I am.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any idea how long that will take?
MS. LOWELL: No, because I need a dumpster, which is
supposed to be coming in in two weeks, and then we'll just start from
there. You know, in the meantime, I cut up and put -- or my son cuts
everything up and takes it down to the end of the lane for the trash
guys. That's what that pile was.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: I knew there was a good man behind that '82
Camaro and that red Vette.
MS. LOWELL: '76 -- oh, yeah, '79.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The Corvette? Yeah. I'll take the
Corvette for you. Only kidding.
MS. CURLEY: Well, it seems kind of sad that the
neighborhood's moving in, because you can see how your property's
beautiful where you live.
MS. LOWELL: Right.
MS. CURLEY: So I wish you luck fixing all this.
MS. LOWELL: Thanks.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Where exactly is this property? Is
this out in the Estates?
MS. LOWELL: Yes, off of Rock Road, but I thought it was ag,
and I didn't -- you know, never thought about having to worry
about --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. LOWELL: -- all the crap.
MS. CURLEY: Good old days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So the first thing we need to do is
April 27, 2023
Page 46
to see if a violation exists.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll make a motion that the violation
exists.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
MS. CURLEY: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second that a violation
exists. All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Now, do you have a suggestion for us, Rick?
MR. MIGAL: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And your suggestion is?
MR. MIGAL: That the Code Enforcement Board orders the
respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of $59.21
incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days and abate all
violations by, No. 1: Removing all unauthorized accumulation of
litter and other items not permitted for outside storage, or storage on
this property, to a site designated for such use or stored desired items
in a completely enclosed structure within blank number of days of
this hearing, or a fine of blank number of dollars will be imposed for
each day the violation remains.
Number 2, repairing and affixing the current valid
plate -- license plate to each vehicle in violation or store these
vehicles in a completely enclosed structure or remove [sic] these
April 27, 2023
Page 47
vehicles to an area intended for such use within blank number of days
of this hearing, or a fine of blank number of dollars will be imposed
for each day any violation continues.
Number 3, the respondent must notify the code enforcement
investigator when the violation has been abated in order to conduct a
final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violation, the county may use -- excuse me -- may abate the
violation by using any method to bring the violation into compliance
and may use the assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to
enforce the provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall
be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You've had no problem
being in touch with Amy?
MR. MIGAL: Not at all. Not at all. She's had her issues
because of additional surgeries on her ankle in Miami. When she's
around or able to, she's been very responsive.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So we should consider that as part
of how much time we would allocate for this?
MR. MIGAL: Please do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody want to try
filling in the blanks?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll take a run at it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Ninety days and 150 per day.
MS. CURLEY: I think you should double that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We can discuss it.
MR. WHITE: The days or the dollars?
MS. CURLEY: The days, even more. That house next door's
not going to be built for nine months, so give her as much time as she
needs. This is not that big of a deal.
MR. YORK: I agree with her. I'm sorry; I'm soft.
April 27, 2023
Page 48
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'll go over there and touch you in
a minute.
MR. YORK: I agree with the days.
MS. CURLEY: So do we have a second on the motion, or did
it drop?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Anybody want to second that
motion?
(No response.)
MS. CURLEY: You want to amend?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, do you want to
amend the days?
MS. CURLEY: Six months.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: All right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Six months.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll give it another shot. Let's go 180
days and 150 per day.
MR. WHITE: Would that be for both violations?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: For both.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So, in essence, six months,
and after that it would be $150 a day. Do we have a second on that
motion?
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a second on that motion.
Any discussion on that motion?
MS. CURLEY: I just have a question for Amy. Is that enough
time, do you think?
MS. LOWELL: I think so.
MS. CURLEY: You have just your son to help you?
MS. LOWELL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We can get Lee out there
to help you.
April 27, 2023
Page 49
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Bulldozer.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I saw you do have a tractor
of some sort.
MS. LOWELL: Right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That helps.
MS. LOWELL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we have a motion and a
second for 180 days, $150-a-day fine thereafter. All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Are you going to be following up?
MR. MIGAL: I will be.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If after 179 days you haven't
gotten it completely done, it wouldn't hurt to come back and say
we've eliminated a lot of this stuff, and we need another week or two,
whatever it takes.
MS. LOWELL: Thank you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you, Amy.
Thank you, Rick.
MR. MIGAL: Thank you.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 10, which is a stipulation
now, CESD20220000870, David H. Levine.
MR. LEVINE: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
April 27, 2023
Page 50
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MR. LEVINE: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name on the
microphone for us.
MR. LEVINE: David Levine.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If you could put that up. You're
taller than most of the people -- everybody.
Okay. Ryan, do you want to read the stipulation into the record
for us, please?
MR. CATHEY: Yes. For the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall: Pay operational costs in the amount of $59.28 incurred in the
prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, abate all violations by: Obtain all required Collier County
vegetative approval and/or building permits, inspections, certificate
of completion/occupancy, or obtain an approved mitigation plan to
restore the property to previous permitted condition within 120 days
of this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed till the
violation is abated;
Three, respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of abatement of the violation and request the investigator
perform a site inspection to confirm compliance; and,
Four, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
April 27, 2023
Page 51
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Mr. Levine, do you have
any problem meeting the 120 days?
MR. LEVINE: I don't know the answer to that one. I'm going
to try to do the 120 days, but everybody that I call, like an engineer
that's going to solve this problem, seems to not call back so far.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, generally, as we
mention to everybody, if you're down the road to 100 days and you're
not getting any callback, I would suggest you contact Ryan and make
arrangements to come back here and let us know what's going on.
MR. LEVINE: Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So 120 days. Anybody want to
make a motion on this stipulation?
MS. CURLEY: I just had a question. Was this referred to
Contractor Licensing?
MR. CATHEY: It was.
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to accept the stipulation as
written.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second. All those
in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MS. CURLEY: I oppose.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. One opposed.
Okay. Hopefully we won't see you back here in 120 days.
MR. LEVINE: Thank you.
April 27, 2023
Page 52
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Moving right along.
MS. BUCHILLON: Now we're going back -- I mean, to old
business, under motion for imposition of fines and liens.
Number 1, CESD20210012154, 4630 Gulfstream Drive, LLC.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MS. PULSE: I do.
MR. LATINO: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name for us
on the microphone, please.
MR. LATINO: Mike Latino.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you are?
MR. LATINO: One of the property owners -- the property's
actually in my brother's name.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And my attorney would
like me to ask you if you have their permission to make the decisions.
MR. LATINO: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Fine.
Dee is whispering in Helen's ear.
MS. CURLEY: I just have a question. Is that a typo on the
owner's name or a typo on the property address, or is that supposed to
be different? Is it golf?
MS. BUCHILLON: No, that's how it's in Property Appraisers,
yeah.
MS. CURLEY: Golf?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Golf.
MS. CURLEY: But it's on Gulfstream.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Scrivener's error.
MS. CURLEY: Nope.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Latino, what's your brother's first name?
April 27, 2023
Page 53
MR. LATINO: Dan.
MR. WHITE: That's correct. It comports with the records.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
(Cell phone sounding.)
MR. AYASUN: Sorry about that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's okay. I enjoy listening
about my metabolism.
MR. AYASUN: I was checking the address but couldn't get to
it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. If it's "gulf" instead of
"golf." The location on our paperwork shows gulf, g-u-l-f stream; is
that correct?
MR. WHITE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And if it says golf in the
other place, that's a scrivener's error that will be resolved.
MR. WHITE: The name of the entity is accurate and so is the
street address.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: As shown on the agenda, it comports with what's
in the Division of Corporations database for this LLC.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Dee, you want to take it
from here?
MS. PULSE: Yes. For the record, Dee Pulse, Collier County
Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On July 28th, 2022, the Code Enforcement Board
issued a findings of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
OR6165, Page 3456, for more information.
April 27, 2023
Page 54
On November 18th, 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted
a continuance. See attached order of the Board in documents and
images for more information.
Violation has not been abated as of April 27th, 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $100 per day for the period from January 25th, 2023, to
April 27th, 2023, 93 days, for a total amount of $9,300. Fines
continue to accrue.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 have been paid;
operational costs for today's hearing, $59.49; for a total amount of
$9,359.49.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sir, you're here to request
something?
MR. LATINO: We were under the assumption that we had an
extension for the time to comply. We were looking for another one
of those. We've had numerous issues with the property and what our
intentions were upon purchasing it. And with -- being new residents
to Florida, we, unfortunately, learned the hard way.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: On November 18th, 2022, that's
when the continuance was granted. And the continuance ran through
when?
MS. CURLEY: January.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: January?
MR. WHITE: January 24, '23.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So since January 24th, what's
happened?
MR. LATINO: So the issue was -- that initially occurred was
prior to our purchase. When we purchased it, it was our intentions to
build a restaurant there. And after learning -- after learning about
some parking requirements, we kind of put things on hold.
We were under the assumption that when we built it, that
April 27, 2023
Page 55
everything would get resolved. That's what we were told by our
general contractors and our architect.
After we ran into a parking issue, we figured out that there's a
proposed overlay down 41. We were hoping to fall into that. I've
been speaking to Jacob about it, which we do fall into it. But since
then we've also listed the property for sale because it's been sitting for
far too long for us.
So with getting an extension, that would allow us to figure out
what we need to do to complete the sale of the place. We are,
literally, in a contract negotiation right now with it, so I don't have
the contract right now.
But if -- again, prior to -- prior to our purchase, we're learning
what was actually done. I also spoke to someone at the county,
Renald, who stated if we get a demolition permit and get it closed
out, that would satisfy whatever was done by the previous owner.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question. Where -- so this isn't
residential? Where is this?
MR. LATINO: It's a commercial building. It's -- if you're
familiar with the area, there's Fuller's Funeral home right there and
the new Mother Truckers, and we're off of Gulfstream just behind it.
MS. CURLEY: Its own building?
MR. LATINO: Yes, free-standing building.
We also purchased the triplex behind there. I mean, we had
every -- good intentions of doing a lot of beautification to that area,
and -- you know, it needs it over there. Those two properties were
neglected pretty bad.
The triplex has been painted, you know, landscaping. And then
the commercial property, there were some homeless people living in
there. The doors were open. We've secured the building. Myself
and our landscaper go around there. We're trying to do our best to
clean the property up and clean it -- keep it presentable, but it was
April 27, 2023
Page 56
just, like I said, a little -- bit off a little bit more than we could chew.
MR. WHITE: Sir -- if I may inquire, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Latino, as part of the negotiated sale, were
you advised that you were required by state law to disclose the
existence of this violation to the buyer?
MR. LATINO: They asked that we clear it up.
MR. WHITE: They're aware of it; you've disclosed it?
MR. LATINO: Correct, yes.
MR. WHITE: Okay.
MR. LATINO: And they've asked that we clear it up.
MR. WHITE: Understood.
MR. LATINO: So we're -- again, I sent an email actually last
night to Renald saying I just want to verify this is the process to get
this stop work order cleared up. But it was -- it's also been a
question as to what was really done. The building had a fire and
from -- whenever the stop work order was put on there, they were
doing the work inside to replace a burnt truss and a burnt part of the
roof, which a general contractor was hired to build, the work was
permitted, and the work was completed.
I don't -- there's nothing built in that building. I mean,
there's -- there's nothing inside of there, so I don't know what
was -- what caused the stop work order. But from my
understanding, the truss work, roof work was all completed,
approved, inspected, and everything. There's been no other work
done in there.
MR. WHITE: Do you know the status of the Contractor
Licensing case?
MR. LATINO: Is that from November of --
MR. WHITE: It was from '21.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: 2021.
April 27, 2023
Page 57
MS. PULSE: That case is closed.
MR. WHITE: I understand the case is closed, but --
MR. LATINO: (Witness shakes head.)
MS. CURLEY: Did you own the property in '21?
MR. LATINO: No.
MR. WHITE: Okay.
MR. LATINO: We purchased it after the truss and roof were
replaced, and all we know is that we inherited a stop work order from
that work.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: From the Contractors Licensing
case?
MR. LATINO: Prior to that, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So you purchased a
building that was in violation at the time or not -- or you don't know?
MR. LATINO: It was disclosed to us that there was just a stop
work order. And then when we consulted with some people we
confide in, they said that with doing the intended restaurant that we
wanted to put there, that everything would be cleared up, so we did
go ahead with the purchase.
MS. CURLEY: So I had an idea, but I don't think it's going to
work. I was going to say we could -- just to facilitate the ease of this
transaction, with all good intentions it seems like everyone here has
had, we could not continue it, but we could --
MR. WHITE: Extend the time to impose.
MS. CURLEY: -- extend the time to impose, but that doesn't
fix the problem, which you had stated needs demolition.
MR. WHITE: It would afford them the opportunity,
Ms. Curley, to obtain the demo permit, perform the demolition, get
the, you know, inspection determining it had been done properly.
MS. CURLEY: And then --
MR. WHITE: And that would close the case, remove the stop
April 27, 2023
Page 58
work order, and at that point abate this violation.
MR. LATINO: And just to be clear, it's not the building that
has to be demoed. It's just --
MR. WHITE: Interior.
MR. LATINO: Yeah, whatever the -- and the interior, like I
said, it's four walls. There's nothing in there.
MS. CURLEY: So you just need a permit for demolition that's
already been demoed.
MR. LATINO: And then, I guess, get it closed out, and that's
from what Renald told me.
MS. CURLEY: So then that -- Jeff, that might work, right? I
just think including a fine at this point it just, like -- it just adds more
paperwork to a mess. Let's just try and work with the current owner.
MR. WHITE: Well, the form of the motion would be to extend
the time to impose them. The fines would continue to accrue.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. I didn't want to -- I didn't want to add
the fines to it because it's just a mess for his real estate transaction in
the end of the line.
MR. WHITE: Well, what would happen, procedurally, is at
some point the county would bring the case forward to impose fines,
and they would be able to -- depending upon if they're still the
owners, or the closing's occurred, and the new owners come in and
request a reduction or abatement.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah, I know, but in the meantime it's going to
red flag their real estate closing with un -- an amount of fines that
they don't know, and it just doesn't help the whole situation. I get
the point of fines. We understand why we fine people. But I think
fining now is just going to muddy the water for this transaction and to
get this started and finished easier.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The problem I have with this case
is the number-one thing that needs to be done is the violation has to
April 27, 2023
Page 59
be abated, and the only way to abate this violation is to do what
Ms. Curley said.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think at this point there's only two
options: You either impose or you give them more time to take care
of this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Correct.
MS. CURLEY: There's no way --
MR. LETOURNEAU: We're not going to withdraw it at this
point, so --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand.
MS. CURLEY: Well --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MS. CURLEY: What do you think, Dee?
MS. PULSE: He's very communicative. He really wants to try
to move forward, and he's hit a lot of hard places that he didn't know
about.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah.
MR. LETOURNEAU: He's testified that he's notified the
prospective buyer. The county has no objection to extending some
more time. It's just it's a rock and a hard place at this point.
MS. CURLEY: Well, maybe, Dee, you can work with him,
that -- if it does get involved as quick as you can, that we, you know,
manage the fining or the finality of the paperwork, you know, fast
enough that it doesn't interfere, and we don't have to see a new owner
in nine months and not know who he is, and then it gets sort of
convoluted at that time.
MS. ELROD: If we extend and continue, the fines go away.
MS. PULSE: Yes.
MR. WHITE: No. It's, again, not semantics, but what your
rules state. The only thing that continues a case is a case you haven't
made a finding of violation on.
April 27, 2023
Page 60
So it is really not just semantics. It's the terms that are in your
rules. You have two types of motions to extend. This could have
come on -- the gentleman could have, you know, put it on a motion to
extend the time to impose the fines meaning it wouldn't be heard to
have fines imposed until after that date, whenever the county brought
it forward.
The other type -- the other species of motion to extend is to
extend the time to comply. That's when the date of compliance has
not yet occurred, there's a timely motion to extend that time to
comply and you grant them more time. You extend more time.
You're not continuing the case per se. The only time you're
continuing a case is one that you haven't found a violation on yet.
And so you continue it to sometime in the future.
I understand that it's been a challenge for me. It's been a
challenge for staff. It's certainly been a challenge for the
respondents. And I'm just hoping that today we can kind of come to
an agreed-upon understanding that that's the way your rules are
written. That's the way the orders have been written as well.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes, Lee.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: We're here not dealing with an extension
of time but the imposition of the current fines, correct?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: But you have heard the respondent question,
orally at the podium, in a sense, a motion to extend the time. So you
kind of have two things hanging out there, and which of the two you
decide to do is up to you.
MS. CURLEY: I got a -- could I do a motion to deny the
county's fines?
MR. WHITE: You could and, effectively, the fines would
April 27, 2023
Page 61
continue to accrue, and the county could bring it back at any point in
time.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
MR. WHITE: The benefit of the motion to extend the time to
impose is that you're giving a respondent cover, if you will, before
you actually will have the county able to bring it forward. The
notion to is, and my understanding of the desire, is to encourage a
respondent, who is making valiant and decent efforts, and basically
tell the county, hey, look, we're not going to impose these fines.
You can't put it on the agenda until on or after this date.
MS. CURLEY: All right. Well, how long until you can get
that demo permit?
MR. LATINO: I'm just waiting on the email back from Renald
to say that's the correct way to remedy it. I have a contractor lined
up who's said that the second I get the go-ahead, I'll go to county and
get it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I have another solution.
Jeff, why don't you pull this for a month and see if he gets his
permit.
MR. WHITE: I believe he said earlier that they had no
intention to withdraw it, but --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Not withdraw it.
MR. WHITE: -- maybe he's changed his position.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Table it.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, that's the same thing, I would say.
But -- well, as you're saying here, that's not going to help Sue's
dilemma about the sale right here. It's still going to be
hanging -- either way, it's hanging over the property. I'd feel more
comfortable that the Board vote to give some form of extension at
this point.
MS. CURLEY: All right. What's the date of our June
April 27, 2023
Page 62
meeting?
MS. BUCHILLON: June 22nd.
MS. CURLEY: So I'd make a motion to continue this to
June 22nd meeting.
MR. WHITE: You do have within your power to table it until
your meeting in June. It's rarely done. I think the --
MS. CURLEY: It's not going to matter.
MR. WHITE: -- impact is the same legally whether you extend
it to the June meeting for 60 days or you table it.
MS. CURLEY: I know that.
MR. WHITE: Okay. I'm just hoping the rest of the Board
members are clear.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We extend this thing to June.
MS. CURLEY: Twenty-one [sic].
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm hoping that you can pull your
permit prior to that --
MR. LATINO: Me, too.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- which will take -- will remove
the violation. It doesn't remove the fines, but it removes the
violation. And as long as -- and now you're selling the property, it
seems. It certainly would be helpful if the people who are buying
the property are aware of that --
MR. LATINO: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- that they have a fine of nine
grand, or whatever it is, hanging over the property at that point.
MR. LATINO: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: But you can also come back and explain your
story again and pay $58 to talk to us, and maybe we'll talk about
some management of that fine.
MR. LATINO: Sixty bucks well spent. I'll see you again.
MS. CURLEY: So my motion was to continue this case to the
April 27, 2023
Page 63
January 21st --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: June.
MS. CURLEY: June 21st [sic] meeting -- sorry -- 2023.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I'll second that.
MR. WHITE: If I could beg the Board's forgiveness. Do you
want to extend the time to impose the fines until the June meeting?
MS. CURLEY: Yes. That's what we wanted to do, but you
keep telling us we can't.
MR. WHITE: No. I'm telling you that when you use the word
"continue," it's confusing.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's a semantic discussion. We've
been using the word --
MR. WHITE: It's substantive.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- "continuance" for years.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I know there's a motion and a second.
So we're just in discussion at this point?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Is it possible to deal with this and add an
extension of time as part of this?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I think that's what the motion --
MR. WHITE: That is the form of the motion. It extends the
time to impose the fines until whatever date.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Till June.
MR. WHITE: To the June meeting.
MS. CURLEY: Call for the vote.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any other discussion on this?
MS. ELROD: Just know that as soon as you get it done, you
call them out, and everything stops.
MR. LATINO: Great. No problem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. All those in favor?
April 27, 2023
Page 64
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. LATINO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go good luck. Get your permit.
We're going to take a break, okay?
Helen, we'll be back in two hours. No. We'll break for 15
minutes, 10 minutes.
(A brief recess was had from 10:34 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'd like to call the Code
Enforcement Board back to order.
What's the next case, Helen?
MS. BUCHILLON: Actually, the next case -- we're going to
make a little change, and we're going to move up someone that -- he's
actually an EMS employee, and he just got off his shift, so we want
him to go home and rest.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If you could just tell me the
number and --
MS. BUCHILLON: Number 8 under imposition of fines,
CESD20210004812, Michael Anthony Guerra and Mariam Leon.
MR. GUERRA: Good morning.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. HOLMES: I do.
April 27, 2023
Page 65
MR. GUERRA: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All righty. Bradley, do you want
to read this into the record for us?
MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir. For the record, Bradley Holmes,
Collier County Code Enforcement Board.
Past orders: On February 24th, 2022, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a findings of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See attached order of the Board,
OR6102, Page 1024, for more information.
The violation has been abated as of February 22nd, 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $150 per day for the period from June 25th, 2022, to
February 22nd, 2023, 243 days, for a total fine amount of $36,450.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 have been paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing: $59.63.
Total amount: 36,509 dollars and, I believe, 63 cents, not 636.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: 636 cents.
MR. HOLMES: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Scrivener's error.
Sir, could you state your name on the microphone for us.
MR. GUERRA: Michael Guerra.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And this looks like it took
a long time to resolve.
MR. GUERRA: Yes, sir. So we converted the garage into
what was a gym slash, like, mother-in-law suite with a bathroom;
however, we did everything, and then after the fact we hired a
contractor to come in and actual submit the paperwork, in which a
deposit was made.
He then took about six months to provide a permit number,
which ended up being false. We then gave the rest of the money up
April 27, 2023
Page 66
front, and then he fled. We then tried to submit the paperwork to
finish the work ourselves.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you get closer to the
microphone, please.
MR. GUERRA: Yes. We then tried to do the paperwork
ourselves and get all the proper permits, which became a hassle, so I
had to hire another contractor to do the plans and the paperwork, and
which it was then resolved subsequently, quite a bit of time later,
about a year and a half, if I remember correctly.
During that process, I was diagnosed with a scalp condition. I
did have surgery, that postponed it, in which I asked for an extension.
That was granted. And then we find ourselves here today.
However, everything's been completed, and I'm here to ask to waive
the fees and perhaps a reduction.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let me just see if I
understand. You bought this property, or you owned the property
originally?
MR. GUERRA: I originally owned it. I still own it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you had this
property --
MR. GUERRA: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- and you converted the garage to
living space?
MR. GUERRA: Yeah. It was a gym. I didn't think it had to
be a living space. So once I found out it had to be a living space, I'd
have to raise the floor, and I didn't want to get into all that. So a
complaint was filed, and then the county was advised.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What did -- originally, you had the
property, and you were going to do something to the property. What
were you going to do?
MR. GUERRA: So I converted it into, like, a gym slash
April 27, 2023
Page 67
mother-in-law suite. So I had a bathroom in there, a shower.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's living space, okay?
MR. GUERRA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And did you get a permit at that
time to do that?
MR. GUERRA: At that time I did not. I was feed for an
after-the-fact, which was paid, about $1,800. And then we began
with the paperwork, in which the contractor took the money and fled,
and then we hired an additional contractor to do the work, and then
we finished and finalized everything.
MS. CURLEY: I can make a motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to deny the county's
imposition of fines, including today's operational costs, for a total of
$36,509.64. It looks like there's a rounding thing there.
MS. BUCHILLON: It's 36 cents. The 6 is extra.
MS. CURLEY: Ah, okay. It seems like a big fine for an
attempt to stay fit.
MS. ELROD: I'll second it.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
Aye.
MR. GUERRA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
April 27, 2023
Page 68
MS. BUCHILLON: Back on our regular schedule under
imposition of fines, No. 2, CENA20220006172, Robert M. Arnold,
and No. 3 and No. 4 are also cases for him.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MR. ARNOLD: I do.
Good morning, everybody.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. If you'd give me
one second, I'll find -- I got it right here. It's always in the last place
I look. Okay.
MR. WHITE: Could we have the gentleman state his name on
the public record.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Please state your name.
MR. ARNOLD: My name is Robert Arnold.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Mr. Arnold.
MR. WHITE: Are you Robert M.?
MR. ARNOLD: No, sir. My son is deceased.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. There are three cases here.
Let me just review them. A debris case, weeds -- okay. One, two,
three. Ryan.
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're up to you again. We've got
to stop meeting like this. Why don't we hear all three cases and vote
on them individually, okay?
MR. CATHEY: Sounds good.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Which one would you like
to do first?
MR. CATHEY: I'm start with No. 2, case ending in 6172. For
April 27, 2023
Page 69
the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On January 26th, 2023, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order.
Respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See attached order of the Board
OR6224, Page 73, for more information.
Violation has been abated as of April 24, 2023.
Fines have accrued at a rate of $250 per day for the period
February 26th, 2023, to April 24, 2023, 58 days. Total fine amount
of $14,500.
Previous assessed operational costs of $59.28 have been paid,
operational costs for today's hearing are $59.28, for a total fine
amount, $14,559.28.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CATHEY: Case No. 3 ending in 9753, past orders are on
January 26th, 2023, the Code Enforcement Board issued a finding of
fact, conclusion of law and order. Respondent was found in
violation of the referenced ordinances and order to correct the
violation. See attached order of the Board, OR6224, Page 71, for
more information.
Violation has been abated as of April 24, 2023.
Fines have accrued at a rate of $250 per day for the period
February 26th, 2023, to April 24, 2023, 58 days, for a total fine
amount of $14,500.
Previous assessed operational costs, $59.21 have been paid;
operational costs for today's hearing, $59.28; total fine amount,
$14,559.28.
And, lastly, case ending in 9815. Past orders are on
January 26th, 2023, the Code Enforcement Board issued a finding of
fact, conclusion of law and order. Respondent was found in
violation of the referenced ordinances and ordered to correct the
April 27, 2023
Page 70
violation. See attached order of the Board, OR6224, Page 69, for
more information.
The violation has been abated as of April 21st, 2023.
Fines have accrued at a rate of $250 per day for the period
February 26th, 2023, to April 21st, 2023, 55 days. Total fine amount
of $13,750.
Previous assessed operational costs, $59.28 have been paid;
operational costs for today's hearing, $59.28; total fine amount,
$13,809.28.
And that is all.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Mr. Arnold?
MR. ARNOLD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm sure you'd like to say
something to us. I don't quite understand -- these properties
belonged to your son; is that right?
MR. ARNOLD: Yes, sir, and he's passed away, about four
weeks okay. And I just tried to resolve all of this that's been going
on. He had -- we've lived here since '87. He had his own plumbing
company, had the best house on the block, but he turned into a drug
addict.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand. So you are the --
MR. ARNOLD: Well.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You're now the new owner of the
property, but it's still listed --
MR. ARNOLD: I am. I'm trying to take care of this. We
have three years of taxes to pay, and I probably have to get a lawyer
to get the house out of my son's name into my name. So I've got a
lot of stuff to do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: I think it's great that all these situations have
been abated, and so --
April 27, 2023
Page 71
MR. AYASUN: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you want to make a motion,
Sue?
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. I would make a motion to deny the
county's imposition of fines for all three, or do you want me to do it
separately?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll do them one at a time.
MS. CURLEY: For case ending in --
MR. KLATZKOW: Mr. Chairman, if choose to and want to,
it's easy enough for me to write the orders.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. All three.
MS. CURLEY: So all three, last four digits 9753, 9815, 6172,
and we'll deny the county's impositions of fine, and we wish you --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll second.
MS. ELROD: Second.
MR. WHITE: Fines and costs, correct?
MS. CURLEY: Including today's costs.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a second. All those in
favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Sorry for your loss, sir.
MR. ARNOLD: Thank you very much.
April 27, 2023
Page 72
MR. AYASUN: I can't even imagine.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen, what's up?
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 9, CESD20210004950,
Carlos Valdes and Dulce Valdes.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MUCHA: I do.
MS. GIGUERE: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hi, Joe.
MR. MUCHA: Hello.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you want to read this into the
record for us, please?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir. For the record, Joe Mucha,
supervisor with Collier County Code Enforcement.
Violation of Collier County Land Development Code 04-41, as
amended, Sections 10.02.06(B)(1)(a) and 10.02.06(B)(1)(e)(i).
Violation location is 191 Smallwood Drive in Chokoloskee,
Florida; Folio 26081640007.
Description of the violation is unpermitted additions and
alterations consisting of, but not limited to, covered storage area with
a bathroom, outdoor sink, water softener equipment, commercial
refrigerator, and propane tanks.
Past orders: On January 27th of 2022, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
OR6095, Page 3275, for more information.
On July 28th of 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted a
continuance. See the attached order of the Board in documents and
images for more information.
April 27, 2023
Page 73
The violation has not been abated as of April 27th of 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $200 per day for the period from May 28th of 2022 to
April 27th of 2023, for 335 days, for a total fine amount of $67,000.
Fines continue to accrue.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 and $59.35 have
been paid. Operational costs for today's hearing is $59.63. Total
fine amount to date is $67,059.63.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We're getting used to
seeing you. State your name on the microphone for us, please.
MS. GIGUERE: I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
Vicki Giguere. That's G-i-g-u-e-r-e.
I am here on behalf of AUC Consultants. We do have
permission from the owner to continuously speak on their matters.
I'll make Pat's job a little easy here. I'm asking for a motion of
extension of time on the imposition of fines; did I get that right?
MR. WHITE: Perfect.
MS. GIGUERE: Okay. To give you guys a little update, I
know this case has been dragging out. It gets a lot of our time,
unfortunately. But we have made some progress. So we have a
Site Development Plan that is under review at the county. There are
a couple of rejections, but there's just measurements that need to be
changed.
Yesterday a meeting was had with five different people from the
Zoning Department and AUC Consultant, and they agreed to allow us
to apply for a nominal approval process, or an NAP. So this is
allowing us to take those propane tanks from the location they are to
a different location, and that -- on the property, which will suffice the
zoning aspects, fire department concerns, all of that. So that process
was applied for immediately after the meeting that was had. So
that's under review as well.
April 27, 2023
Page 74
We are moving forward finally with getting this resolved. We
just need a little more time. We all know how the process goes
when it's under review. So I'm at your mercy today to ask for, I
would say, at least 60 days, and I would love to come back and give
you an update if I have to.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: If I could ask one question, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Shoot.
MR. WHITE: Do you know if this is homestead property or
not.
MR. MUCHA: It's a commercial business.
MS. GIGUERE: It's a commercial business, yeah.
MR. WHITE: So it's not. Thank you.
MS. GIGUERE: Yeah. It is one of those older businesses. It
used to be the post office way back, decades and decades ago, so it is
a legal nonconforming building, so that's where we're having a little
trouble trying to figure out what the setbacks should be. And it's a
very oddly shaped property, so there's been a lot of back-and-forth
with the county on those measurements.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Questions from the Board?
MS. CURLEY: What's the county think?
MR. MUCHA: I don't think 60 days is going to be enough
time. I can tell you that right off the bat.
MS. GIGUERE: I mean, I'd love to ask for more.
MR. MUCHA: There's no way this is going to get done in 60
days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's been the single holdup on
all of this?
MR. MUCHA: Like she said, because it's an old legal
nonconforming structure and the fact that they have added onto it and
trying to get around whether they needed the site plan or if they could
April 27, 2023
Page 75
permit things as-is. Because this building's 60 years old, and it's in
Chokoloskee, and there's --
MS. GIGUERE: So the survey that was originally for the
property is not actually correct. So we had to get an additional
survey done.
So there is a small portion of the building that is encroaching on
the setbacks, so part of it is just shaving that portion of the building
off, which is a very simple thing because it's like a thatch tiki. It's
just a facade. There's nothing behind it. And so that's just part of
the plan. So it's waiting for the county to decide on what the actual
measurements can be, because it's almost like a triangle of a property.
It's a very odd shape.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: When did this all begin?
MS. CURLEY: A year ago.
MR. MUCHA: Well, I've been out there, honestly, since 2018,
but that was for another case. But these all started with -- they were
feuding with the neighboring property, and I believe that neighbor
has since sold their property and moved on. So I haven't gotten any
calls from anybody about it in years.
MS. CURLEY: Well, let's just give them time to fix it. It
doesn't seem like it's a big deal. Just for point of record, this actually
says it's Naples, Florida, on the finding notice -- I don't think that
matters -- instead of Chokoloskee. So you asked for 60. He says
you need 180.
MR. MUCHA: I would say at least 180.
MS. GIGUERE: I'm not going to object to that. So 180 would
be gracious.
MS. CURLEY: And then the fine's going to be so massive
when it comes back, because we didn't really address this correctly in
the beginning, I guess. It just went to fine. Now, obviously, they've
hired you. So it seems like things are working out.
April 27, 2023
Page 76
I mean, I'll make a motion to extend it for six months.
MS. ELROD: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You have a motion and a second.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Can you repeat the motion, please?
MS. CURLEY: Extension for six months.
Fines are accruing. Work fast.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Now, before we go on, I will look
to Patrick.
MR. WHITE: I believe the form of the motion is legally
correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Fines continue -- with an
extension, the fines continue to accrue.
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And the previous fines are not
erased?
MR. WHITE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I hope you're --
MR. WHITE: The order will so reflect.
MS. CURLEY: If he's wrong, good for the landowner.
MS. GIGUERE: If not, I'll just beg for mercy when we come
back. It's okay.
MR. WHITE: I'll need my malpractice insurance, won't I?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: Anybody second that?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Yes, we have a second.
Okay. Any discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
April 27, 2023
Page 77
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Nay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You got your six months.
MS. GIGUERE: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. AYASUN: She's a frequent respondent.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Frequent flyer.
Okay, Helen.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 7, CESD20170011238,
Double M Investments, LLC. I apologize, Ms. McGrath, I skipped
you by mistake.
MS. McGRATH: That's okay.
MR. WHITE: Where would she otherwise have appeared in the
agenda?
MS. McGRATH: I've been here about 16 times.
MS. BUCHILLON: She was right before Vicki's case, and I
overlooked it.
MR. WHITE: I assured her she was going to be last.
MS. McGRATH: Save of the best for last.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Patrick, are you making trouble?
MR. WHITE: It's always going to be --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Are you going to go out with a
bang? When we throw you out the window and you hit the ground,
you'll go "bang."
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MUCHA: I do.
MS. McGRATH: I do.
April 27, 2023
Page 78
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: This looks like a frequent flyer
also.
MS. McGRATH: Well, I'm sorry, Ms. Curley, but I've been six
years. I beat that other guy out. Not proud of it, but...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Joe, you want to read this into the
record for us?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir. For the record, Joe Mucha,
supervisor, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is dealing with a violation of the Collier County Code
Enforcement Board 04-41, as amended, Sections 10.02.06(B)(1)(a)
and 10.02.06(B)(1)(e).
Location is 659 Palm Avenue in Goodland. Folio
No. 46420360009.
Description of the violation is a mobile home that was removed
between 2006 and 2007 without a valid demolition permit and the
dock lift, shed, and power pole installed without first obtaining a
valid Collier County permit.
On May 24th of 2018, the Code Enforcement Board issued a
finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The respondent was
found in violation of the referenced ordinances and ordered to correct
the violation. See the attached order of the Board, OR5519, Page
3631, for more information.
On September 27th of 2018, the Code Enforcement Board
granted a continuance. See the attached order of the Board in
documents and images for more information.
On September 26th of 2019, the Code Enforcement Board
granted a continuance. See the attached order of the Board in
documents and images for more information.
On February 25th of 2021, the Code Enforcement Board granted
an extension of time. See the attached order of the Board in
documents and images for more information.
April 27, 2023
Page 79
On October 27th of 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted
a continuance. See the attached order of the Board in documents and
images for more information.
The violation has not been abated as of April 27th of 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a rate
of $100 per day for the period from March 25th of 2020 to April 27th
of 2023, for 1,129 days, for a total fine amount of $112,900. Fines
continue to accrue.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.63 and $59.35 have
been paid. Operational costs for today's hearing is $59.98, for a total
fine amount of $112,959.98.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Could you put your name
on the microphone for us, please.
MS. McGRATH: Angela McGrath.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And give us a little
refresher of what's going on here.
MS. McGRATH: Well, a little refresher is in -- before we
bought the property, someone removed that mobile home. We did
not remove it. We had to pay the fines because someone removed
that. And then they removed the septic tank.
We were told, in a nutshell, that was a nonconforming street,
East Palm and East Coconut.
So we had a tiny house we bought from Fort Myers. We had it
dropped. Two days later, before we even were able to get it
permitted, Hurricane Irma hit. That, as you know, is a mess. If
anyone's been to Goodland, they know it's a mess out there,
especially around a canal.
So then we've just been trying nonstop to try to rectify this.
We've lifted it. I hired an engineer. I think the whole problem
with -- I mean, I could say way more than 20 minutes long today, but
I'm not going to do that, because the whole problem is
April 27, 2023
Page 80
miscommunication, okay. And what I mean by that is I've heard so
many people get up here and say, we can't get ahold of anybody. No
one returns their phone call. I'm a perfect example.
I have Ms. Lynch back here that created a packet for me. It's
supposed to be an easy packet to follow to get through this. And
Mr. Jeff, I apologize, I forgot your last name, you told me if I didn't
understand the packet, to hire somebody, okay. So I hired three civil
engineers. I hired Stantec, Hole Master -- Hole Montes, and
Davidson. All three took a look at it, copied Diane Lynch on a
report. This looks like it's excessive. It looks to me like you have
four things to resolve.
Diane Lynch sends back, you have way more than that.
I call her. She says, refer to your packet.
All three civil engineers have quit.
Then I go on Original Permit Express. I asked them to help me.
They said this is a mess, and I consider this harassment. We are out.
Okay.
Then I hired another permit company. So I've been through
three civil engineers and two permit companies since you saw me last
time.
So now Diane Lynch -- and I'm sorry. I think I can bring your
name up, Diane. She did give me a packet, okay. I don't
understand the packet.
I hire five people. They don't understand it.
So then I said, can you help me with the packet? Every time I
ask her, she says, refer to the packet. Refer to the packet.
So if she says I haven't done anything since the last meeting, I
have. I got a new survey which, basically, was the same survey that
we gave you back in '18. All they did with the survey, put the
correct date and sign it. Charged me 500 bucks. Seventeen times.
Seventeen surveys I've had on that property.
April 27, 2023
Page 81
Then I went to the drainage-use agreement. Book 6112, Page
3895, recorded April 18th of '22. I did my research. I paid my
money for the drainage-use agreement.
They said I encroached on a side setback, which I did. So I
don't know why I can't get the drainage-use agreement to go through.
I own all four properties right there. No one wants to help you.
So I had -- four Sundays ago I had an attorney friend of mine,
two other attorneys. Chris Scott, he said he'd help me, okay. I
called Derek Perry. Seventeen times I've called that office. No
response.
So when people stand up here and say, I can't get anybody to
call me back, I am a perfect example. I cannot get anybody to call
me back.
I've been through every official. And I could name names right
now of two people that said we will help you. We'll get this
wrapped up in two weeks. That was three months ago. They don't
answer your phone call, and now I'm blackballed.
I hired an attorney. He said, try to get through it at your next
meeting. He said, you are being blackballed for some reason.
It's a tiny house. It's 288 square feet. I have a half a million
dollars in the property. Can't do anything with it. So do you want
me to rip it down? Is that what you want me to do?
Diane Lynch said, don't continue any further with anything in
this packet until your rear variance passes. Who's that? Derek
Perry? Is that Mr. Pat? Because I don't know who's supposed to do
that.
Everybody I've contacted -- do you want to know everybody?
There's 12 people. I've got two phone calls back from Richard Orth.
Nothing from Jamie French after over 30 calls. Nothing.
I put an email in to Rick LoCastro.
This has been going back since Donna Fiala was in the picture.
April 27, 2023
Page 82
She came to my property. She said, don't worry. We're going to get
this passed.
I think I'm being targeted. I mean, I don't know what else to
say. Is that because I have the first tiny house in Collier County? I
mean, I'm not looking for sympathy, but I lost my dad four months
ago. I lost my mom two weeks ago. I live and breathe this thing. I
can't get it to go away.
So tell me what you want me to do. Do you want me to rip it
down? Is that what you want? Because you're sure making life
really, really difficult.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm at a loss for words.
Go ahead, Jeff.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Before we get started, I probably need
to be sworn in. I'm sorry.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I do.
Joe, from the beginning of this case, she had mentioned a mobile
home, correct? But in between the tiny house and the mobile home,
there was a shed, correct?
MR. MUCHA: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And that was built without a permit?
MR. MUCHA: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes, there was.
MS. McGRATH: No, it was dropped. That was what I was
telling you. It was dropped.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Well, it was an unpermitted
structure, shed. Whatever you want to call it, that's what was there.
Rather than remove the shed, Ms. McGrath chose to build a tiny
house there, correct?
April 27, 2023
Page 83
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Built it without the permit being issued?
MR. MUCHA: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Made that choice.
MS. McGRATH: Not true, sir. Not true.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, I'm under oath. I'm testifying
that that's the truth right there, okay.
MS. McGRATH: All right. Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And I'd like to ask Ms. Lynch to come
up here at some point to speak for the county and rebut this testimony
a little bit here.
Now, I asked Ms. Lynch a couple days ago to come in here -- I
asked her to send me correspondence between her, Ms. Lynch, and
all the people she was mentioning in the county. Ms. Lynch sent me
so much correspondence that I couldn't even keep up with it. It's
absolutely insane.
So, Ms. Lynch, if you could come up here.
MR. WHITE: Ms. McGrath, let me just caution you. You will
have an opportunity to cross-examine any of these witnesses.
MS. McGRATH: Okay.
MR. WHITE: And I'm asking you to please allow them to just
give their testimony and not interrupt. Can we do that, please?
MS. McGRATH: Yes.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MS. LYNCH: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you move the mic.
Thanks, Joe.
MR. LETOURNEAU: So, Ms. Lynch, just a couple questions.
In your capacity right now for the county, how long have you worked
April 27, 2023
Page 84
there?
MS. LYNCH: I've worked for county for 16 years; in this
position, for four.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And in this position you have right
now, you're tasked to help people, you know, solve issues like that,
correct?
MS. LYNCH: Yeah, a commissioner, county manager, anyone.
MR. LETOURNEAU: So would you say that you and the
county have -- went above and beyond to help Ms. McGrath try to
take care of this situation?
MS. LYNCH: I believe so.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Do you have anything to say as
far as rebuttal to her testimony so far?
MS. LYNCH: I have a couple of corrections.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay.
MS. LYNCH: The recording of the easement that she's talking
about is not the easement-use agreement. She had a drainage
easement, which is where the golf lean-to was built. That's one of
the variances that was required.
The recording is the newly created drainage easement on
the -- between, I think, Lots 4 and 5 of her other properties. That has
nothing to do with the easement-use agreement.
The easement-use agreement is because there are -- there are
structures in those drainage easements, and we need the easement-use
agreement so that in the event -- everyone is aware, it gets recorded,
so that in the event that we need to get in there for drainage purposes,
that those structures may be demolished. But she is aware that they
are in our drainage easement and they shouldn't be there. They can
be removed. If they're removed and the lean-to is removed, then the
drainage easement -- the agreement is no longer required. But as far
as I'm aware, that hasn't been done.
April 27, 2023
Page 85
It started out as an unpermitted shed. The shed was then put on
pillars. The permit was then for the tiny house. That has not been
CO'ed, and there are still issues with that. I'm not aware of a septic
system being on that property prior to the one that she permitted
starting in 2017. Anything else, you're welcome to ask me.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I'd like to just say, ballpark estimate,
how many emails and correspondence and conversations have you
had with Ms. McGrath over the last few years regarding this?
MS. LYNCH: A lot of the emails are repetitive in that. Yes, I
did state to her on several occasions that she needed to refer to the
packet that we sent to her and that she needed to follow the direction
that this board gave her in October to hire someone to assist her.
That has been my response to probably the last three or four emails.
Before that it was just a reiterance of what had been previously
provided. The information has been the same. I have incomplete
applications. Documents have been sent. They have either been
incorrect or incomplete for the purpose. We have not received all of
the required documents to proceed with any of the applications, so
I'm still working on those.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Ms. McGrath, do you currently
live at this property?
MS. McGRATH: No.
MR. LETOURNEAU: During this process, have you received
any rental income from this property?
MS. McGRATH: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. As an Airbnb?
MS. McGRATH: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: No further questions at this time.
MS. McGRATH: But -- okay.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question for the --
MR. WHITE: Ms. Curley, would you mind if we gave Ms.
April 27, 2023
Page 86
McGrath the opportunity to cross any of these witnesses first?
MS. CURLEY: It was just a point of clarification on something
she said. It might help.
So you said the easement-use agreement, or whatever -- you said
that one that you're lacking, who prepares that, the county?
MS. LYNCH: It's a submittal. It's an application that needs to
be filled out by the applicant. There are documents that are required
to go with that application. It goes through our county surveyor for
review, and then it needs to go before our hearing examiner.
MS. CURLEY: Right. So that's more than I need. So it's not
a form letter that she fills out and submits?
MS. LYNCH: It's a form application that she fills out and
submits with the added additional required documents.
MS. CURLEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you have any questions of --
MS. McGRATH: Yes. Can I just ask one question to Diane?
Diane Lynch, did you tell me when you gave me this packet not
to further any of these issues until the rear variance passed? Because
you said there is no point in doing all of this until you get the rear
variance passed. Okay. You said that, correct?
MS. LYNCH: Not exactly.
MS. McGRATH: Well, you did. I have it in an email. Okay.
Let me just finish.
MR. WHITE: Ma'am, you asked her a question, and you've got
to let her answer completely. Don't interrupt, please.
Ms. Lynch, if you've got something more to add, please do.
MS. LYNCH: What I stated was don't do anything further to
the properties and that the rear variance, which was the oldest
one -- and now that it has been agreed, Jamie French, the department
head, has allowed both variances to be submitted as one. The rear
variance has been started but not completed. The side variance is
April 27, 2023
Page 87
now added to do that, and we have not received any submittals for
that.
So, yes, you needed to start with the rear variance first because
that would then depend, if that was approved by the HEX, what your
easement-use agreement would then need to include, because if it
was denied for your side variance, then your easement-use agreement
would be different than if it was approved.
MR. WHITE: Do you have any further questions of her,
ma'am?
MS. McGRATH: Well, yes. So when you tell me -- and give
me this packet -- to call all these people on here -- and I've called
every single one of them, and I've called -- I can't do anything until
Derek Perry gives me a letter of no objective [sic] or does the rear
variance. I can't do anything.
MR. WHITE: I'm sorry, ma'am. Mr. Perry, as I understand it,
is an assistant county attorney; is that correct?
MS. McGRATH: Right, but he's on my paperwork.
MR. WHITE: Yeah, I understand.
MS. McGRATH: Do you want to look at it?
MR. WHITE: No, ma'am. I know who he is, and I know what
his job is.
MS. McGRATH: No, but do you know what this description
says, what I'm supposed to do?
MR. WHITE: It's not my job, ma'am. The point is, if you're
required in part of your application to get a letter of no objection, that
is not the county's responsibility. That typically is something you
need to get from a utility company, and you have to ask them
yourself. It is not the county's responsibility --
MS. McGRATH: That's not what this says.
MR. WHITE: -- and that's probably the reason you're not
getting return calls.
April 27, 2023
Page 88
MR. LETOURNEAU: I do have an email from Mr. Perry, if
you'd like to take a look at it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And here it is up on the board.
MR. WHITE: Would you object to it being read into the
record, the email that he's referring to from Mr. Perry?
MS. McGRATH: Oh, no, not at all.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And this is dated -- okay. This is dated
today, but obviously it has some -- let me start from the bottom right
here. Oh, it's a huge email, so --
Can you -- can you paraphrase, maybe, Diane, what Mr. Perry's
trying to get across here?
MS. LYNCH: I was given information from Jamie French's
assistant that she called and wanted a simple list of what was left to
do, so I provided that. That was what was highlighted in the first
box that Derek prepared. These are the instructions for the variance.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Joe, move mic back so --
MS. LYNCH: I'm sorry. I'll just move over. I apologize.
So this is information for the variance and the FedEx package
that was sent. That's the variance number. Then there was
instructions below it. This is all from February 14th, I believe. And
then what he appears to have done is done a screenshot of my list of
the simple -- just give you a simple list of what was due exactly, and
so that's what I did.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I can't read that from here. Can
you read that highlight portion?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I can read that. It says, No. 1,
variances: Rear boat dock and side setback, golf cart lean-to; No. 2,
easement-use agreement for the existing drainage easement between
Lots 3 and 4 and the newly acquired drainage easement between Lots
April 27, 2023
Page 89
4 and 5; No. 3, building permit revisions -- revision to the building
permit, including plans for the septic system and the golf cart lean-to.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is that what would bring
everything into compliance?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes. Well, that would get them
allowed to get that permit CO'ed at this point, yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you agree that that
would -- that's the list you put together?
MS. LYNCH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: A summary list?
MS. LYNCH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Yes, ma'am.
MS. McGRATH: Can I say something now? Okay.
So on the variance, I was -- okay. I'm not going to rehash this,
but I was waiting for something from Derek Perry. I was told I had
to get a form from him. Now, the side setback, it's just easier now.
I mean, when I had all these people come out a few Sundays ago,
they said, don't take anything off. I was just going to have my
neighbor cut off that lean-to so I don't have to deal with that. I don't
know why this is such a big issue. I own all four properties right
there. I don't know why they just couldn't take the three, four feet,
or whatever it is, off of something else, but they won't, so I'll just cut
that off. But my -- this Chris Scott said not to do anything yet. But
if that's what --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Who is --
MS. McGRATH: We'll make this --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Who is Chris Scott?
MS. McGRATH: He is someone that is trying to help me.
MR. LETOURNEAU: He was a former planner for Collier
County that's in the -- doing private stuff now.
MS. McGRATH: Right. He's trying to help me, and he said
April 27, 2023
Page 90
he was working with Perry. And so I think, at this point, everything
I do I hit a roadblock.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question. You said "cut." What -- I
got a little sidetracked. Can you --
MS. McGRATH: Is there a picture of my property anywhere?
MS. CURLEY: No, I think you can explain it to me, because I
think we talked about this a year or so ago when you talked about
cutting something off.
MS. McGRATH: There's a lean-to on the side of the tiny
house.
MR. AYASUN: What's a lean-to?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's a structure.
MS. McGRATH: It's like a lean-to, and it comes down, and it
buts up to the existing fence that was there, and I put the gulf cart
underneath there.
MS. CURLEY: So I remember talking about this, like, a year
or more ago, and you were going to cut that off.
MS. McGRATH: Well, I was going to cut it off, but then they
said that there was hope that I could just use the easement off another
property. That's what I've been trying to do.
And then I call -- I get something back about three weeks ago.
I get my check back from the easement dated 2020. Now, they've
cashed all my checks for the rear variance. This is for the side
setback. They sent it back. I called client services. I could not get
one person to call me back in two weeks, not one person.
I finally get ahold of this girl that just started there, and she said,
oh, they sent your check back because it's expired. That was dated
10/20/2020 that I gave the money for the setback.
So I've been trying to figure out -- and the Hoot system, the
septic system Diane's referring to. I did that. I called the Health
Department. I said, well -- they said there's a 1,200-square-foot
April 27, 2023
Page 91
house on there. I said it's not. It's 288 square feet.
They said, oh, someone didn't upload the right plan. We have
it. I sent Diane -- I copied the Health Department and sent it to
Diane. I said, they -- it wasn't my fault. I submitted what I was
supposed to. Nobody uploaded it into my file. So it was there all
along. And I sent you that, and I copied the Health Department.
So that issue was taken care of. The survey was taken care of.
The engineer letter was taken care of. I don't know why I needed
that; that little tiny house survived two hurricanes. They
never -- nothing wrong with it. I don't know --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me stop for a second. I think
this is just going on.
Lee, you have a question. Ask your question.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Yes, I do. Thank you.
Do you currently have a general contractor working on your
project?
MS. McGRATH: Yes, my brother.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Is he a licensed contractor?
MS. McGRATH: CBC license, yes.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay.
MS. McGRATH: And he's in Michigan, though, but he's
licensed in Florida. So he's been trying to help me with this, but
we've been trying to work every avenue that we can not to, you
know, disturb the property, because when you have to move that
property, I've got to take all the underground plumbing out, electrical,
everything.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Has he provided you a scope of work of
what he's going to do and how long it's going to take?
MS. McGRATH: No, my brother -- well, my brother's 74 years
old. So he's going to help somebody down here --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Do you have a contract with him that
April 27, 2023
Page 92
shows what's going to be done and when?
MS. McGRATH: No, I don't, because --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay.
MS. McGRATH: -- when I talked to --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: All right.
MS. McGRATH: -- Chris Scott, he said to wait --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Thank you.
MS. McGRATH: -- until he figured it out. He needed time to
review it.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Do you currently have an attorney
representing you?
MS. McGRATH: No, not at this point. I've only sought legal
advice from my two friends that are attorneys.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: The way -- I mean, I'm reading this, and
I hear what you say, and I know a lot of people have been through a
lot of problems from Hurricane Irma and Hurricane Ian, and they've
somehow been able to complete their projects. Yes, slow, but
eventually it gets done.
And I remember this case, and it's been going on and on. And I
don't understand why you don't have a general contractor that could
really help you and get these --
MS. McGRATH: Nobody wants it. It's the first tiny house in
Collier County. Nobody wants the project. I had to get my brother
in Michigan to come down. We sat at Ray Bellow's desk twice to go
over this. So it's not an easy -- this isn't an easy thing. I mean, the
only thing I can think of is rip the thing down or put it on something,
because -- I need a rear variance. That's what I need first. That's it.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Why haven't you retained an attorney to
fight this battle --
MS. McGRATH: Well, do you think I want to fight city hall
April 27, 2023
Page 93
with an attorney? I'm already a half million with the
288-square-foot house. Do you think I want to put another 50 grand
in an attorney to fight Collier County? I mean, that's crazy. I don't
have that kind of money.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: So far you're fighting it for five years,
and you've gotten nowhere.
MS. McGRATH: Right. Well, that -- I'm going to tell you
something. I'm taking responsibility for that house being dropped
where it is, but I'm not taking full responsibility.
You had every one of your building officials go out there, sign
off on my permit card. So do they not know what they're talking
about? Because every one of them signed off. So if that was
set -- the only way they caught that is when they did a spot survey for
the CO.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Did they sign off that the work was done
properly --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MS. McGRATH: Yes, every single --
THE COURT REPORTER: I can only get one at a time.
Please.
MS. McGRATH: Okay. Sorry.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Was the sign-offs done to show that the
work was done --
MS. McGRATH: The permit card was completely filled out.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Let me finish. You want to talk? Go
ahead.
MS. McGRATH: No, I was just telling you that. That's it.
That's signed.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: All right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
April 27, 2023
Page 94
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a question here
prior to your motion. How's that?
Sue, go ahead.
MS. CURLEY: I don't have any more questions.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Your motion is?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: All right. I'd like to make a motion that
the fine of $112,959.98 be assessed against the lady and her property
as of this date.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I have a comment I'd like
to make before I second your motion. Could you put those -- the list
that you read back to us up on the email?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I apologize.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: My question is this: How many
items are on there? You don't have to tell me what they are.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Three items on there.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Three items on there?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That are not done?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And my question to you is,
are you familiar with those three items?
MS. McGRATH: I wasn't until just now, but -- Diane said she
sent it over, but I -- I didn't see that she limited to just three line
items. I haven't seen that, because that's what I've been asking for all
along, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: When is that dated?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, this particular email right here
was sent over today, but I believe you heard Ms. Lynch's testimony
that this has been reiterated numerous times.
MS. LYNCH: The most recent that I sent this exact email was
April 27, 2023
Page 95
February 14th, but the information has been provided multiples times
over multiple years.
I would like to make one statement, if I may.
The issues are not going on because this is a tiny house. The
issues would go on no matter what size house is on that lot. The golf
lean-to is built into a drainage easement to the property line. That --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And that was discussed a year ago?
MS. LYNCH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And that's still there?
MS. McGRATH: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's a --
MS. McGRATH: Well, it's still there because we filed the
paperwork for the user lease agreement. That's what I thought when
you sent me that. What did I -- what did they have on Page 3895?
I started the process because I own the properties. So why
couldn't I just use the three feet or whatever from the other property?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Because you probably have to
change the property lines, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not
asking that.
You have a list of items that need to be done -- I'm trying to
keep this -- we're not going to hear all of these things at the same
time in front of Code Enforcement Board. And, by the way, when
you say "you people," we represent the people, not just the county, so
it's not us, okay?
MS. McGRATH: Can I just say one thing that I think might
help?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MS. McGRATH: I'll just take the side off, so we'll forget about
that. I just have to get a contractor to do it, which might take me a
couple months because everything's -- everybody's busy. I just take
the lean-to off. Then the only thing I have left is the rear variance,
April 27, 2023
Page 96
right, Diane?
MS. LYNCH: No. By taking off --
MS. McGRATH: They keep adding things.
MR. WHITE: Ma'am, don't interrupt, please.
MS. LYNCH: By removing the side golf lean-to, that removes
your requirement for the side variance.
You currently, according to your survey, still have structures in
the drainage easements. The recording that you're referring to is the
newly recorded drainage easement between the other two properties.
So if there continues to be, even without the lean-to, any type of
structure in the drainage easement, then you will require an
easement-use agreement.
If you remove the lean-to and all structures in all of the drainage
easements, then you will not need a side variance or an easement-use
agreement. You still need to proceed with the revision to your
building permit because the septic tank is permitted through the
Department of Health. That is not reviewed by me, but it does need
to be added to your building permit, which it currently has not been.
That is the revision that is required for your septic tank. It was
originally applied for in 2017, and it was noted in August of 2019
that a revision was required to your building plans to add that, which
we currently don't have.
MR. LETOURNEAU: But, Ms. Lynch, was this reiterated
before at any time to Ms. McGrath?
MS. LYNCH: Yes, many times.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, we have a motion,
and we have a second. More discussion on the motion?
I don't understand why you can't narrow this down to what
specifically needs to be done. Put them in the same room and agree
or disagree and go from there.
April 27, 2023
Page 97
You said that they had recommended to you to get an attorney to
go through this. I'm not a big fan of attorneys, but, in this particular
case -- I know Pat's laughing. Except for Patrick.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Chairman, I would be glad to retire from
this position immediately and if I could, you know, get that $50,000
that Ms. McGrath seems to think it would take, I'd be doing the job
for her right now. But, unfortunately, that's unrealistic.
In all matters that I've represented people on -- and I do it at
what I consider to be a fairly reasonable rate, like, 250 an hour. I
don't know that she needs a land-use attorney. What she needs is
probably someone like Mr. Scott who can actually tell her so she
listens and does what she's instructed. That seems to be where the
communication is that I perceive.
MR. AYASUN: Hold on one second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MR. AYASUN: Can I speak?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. AYASUN: I agree with the Chairman here. I mean,
let's -- why don't we just bring this to 1, 2, 3, and that's it? Because
we're going in all tangents, and I'm getting confused.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, we're here to impose the fine
today.
MR. AYASUN: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: There's contention between the county
and Ms. McGrath of what's been relayed. We contend, the county
and I, that we have numerous times told her what she needed to do.
It has been boiled down for her, and she hasn't done it. That's our
county contention right now.
So we are asking for the fines to be imposed, because here we
are -- this case is 2017. We're here six years later, and
nothing -- and, you know, really, it hasn't been done.
April 27, 2023
Page 98
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion, and we
have a second to impose the fine.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Could we have discussion?
MS. CURLEY: I did not second it, but I have a --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I seconded it.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. What's your question?
MS. CURLEY: My question is just because the description
says a mobile home that was removed. So we have a
10-year -- 10-year span between the mobile home being removed,
and that -- you know, to me, that's what this topic's about. So -- and
the mobile home's not listed on this highlighted yellow thing. So has
that issue been cleared?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, ma'am.
MS. LYNCH: That was before me.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion, and we
have a second. Should the motion pass, the recourse that you would
have is to go before the County Commission, and you can have all
your documentation with all your names and everything else, and that
probably will be the only way this is ever going to get resolved. But
as far as the Board is concerned right now, I'm going to call for the
vote on the motion. All those in favor, say aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Opposed?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Two opposed. The
motion passes. We're done with this case.
April 27, 2023
Page 99
MS. CURLEY: Well, she's still getting $100-a-day fine until
she comes into compliance.
MR. WHITE: That is correct.
MS. McGRATH: Can I say one last thing?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MS. McGRATH: I initiated all the communication with
Ms. Lynch. I asked for those few items so many times. She told
me no. Now all of a sudden today --
MR. LETOURNEAU: I'm going to object to this, because this
is irrelevant, and --
MS. McGRATH: I know this, because this is a joke. I'm
sorry. This is a joke.
Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Next?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You thank you very much.
Appreciate it. We are not in the position to resolve everything all
the time.
MR. AYASUN: Not only that, but I think thanks to you that
you clarified the position that, you know, you all, you all. But we
are not representing the Code Enforcement. You know, that was
very clear. She thought we were jumping on her, but I'm glad you
clarified it.
MS. CURLEY: We're volunteers, everyone.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Next.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MS. BUCHILLON: Number 10, CEPM20220005689, Suso 4
Mission Hills, LP, and Slate Asset Management, LP.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
April 27, 2023
Page 100
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MS. THEODORE: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have the same cast here back
again. Ryan, welcome back.
Ryan, you want to read this into the record for us, please?
MR. CATHEY: Yes. For the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On November 18th, 2022, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order.
Respondent was found in violation of referenced ordinance and
ordered to correct the violation. See attached order of the Board,
OR6224, Page 65, for more information.
Violation has been abated as of March 7th, 2023.
Fines have accrued at a rate of $100 a day for the period of
January 18th, 2023, till March 7, 2023, 49 days; total fine amount,
$4,900.
Previous assessed operational costs, $59.28, have been paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing, $59.49. Total amount:
4,959.49.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE COURT REPORTER: Can you state your name again?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Your turn.
MS. THEODORE: Sue Theodore. I'm the property manager
for the shopping center.
I am here asking that the fines be waived. They were assessed
not because of failure to act. But once we were given the
notification, we hired a company to repair the fountain. They
immediately started; however, parts were unavailable. Parts on
backorder. Parts on backorder. As soon as they came in, they were
installed. The fountain works. I know they've communicated
April 27, 2023
Page 101
continually with Ryan as well as us. That's what I'm here asking.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Is that correct, Ryan?
MR. CATHEY: Yes, they maintained regular communication
with me. The contractor that they hired contacted me as well at the
time. The fines started to accrue as a result of parts being on
backorder.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. ELROD: I'll make a motion to deny the county the
imposition of fines.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion. Do we have a
second? I'll second it. All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Nay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It passes.
You win one. You lose one.
MS. THEODORE: I don't consider either a loss, to be honest
with you. Thank you.
MR. CATHEY: Thank you.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 5, CESD20210000673,
Rodolfo Trevino, Jr.
For the record, respondent was notified regular and certified
mail March 30th, 2023, and it was also posted at the property and
courthouse March 29, 2023.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
April 27, 2023
Page 102
MR. MUCHA: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let the record reflect that the
respondent is not present.
Do you want to read this into the record for us, Joe?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir.
For the record, Joe Mucha, supervisor, Collier County Code
Enforcement.
I'll start. Past orders: On July 28th of 2022, the Code
Enforcement Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and
order. The respondent was found in violation of the referenced
ordinances and ordered to correct the violation. See the attached
order of the Board, OR6165, Page 3465, for more information.
Violation has not been abated as of April 27th of 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $100 per day for the period from November 26th of 2022 to
April 27th of 2023, for 153 days, for a total fine amount of $15,300.
Fines continue to accrue.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 have not been
paid, operational costs for today's hearing is $59.35, for a total fine
amount of $15,418.63.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Respondent is not present.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Shoot.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Has this property been mowed a second
time or a third time since the violation was discovered?
MR. MUCHA: When you say "mowed"?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Cleared.
MR. MUCHA: I mean, it was cleared initially, and my
understanding is -- and we've had conversations with the owner, and
I'm surprised he's not here -- is that he's got an approved restoration
plan. He's going to restore the property, but he was kind of waiting
April 27, 2023
Page 103
for rainy season to come before he did it. And I'm actually surprised
he's not here because I thought he was going to be here today.
MS. CURLEY: I remember this case. When was the last time
you talked to him, Joe?
MR. MUCHA: That was this week.
MS. CURLEY: Oh, darn.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Joe, do you know for a fact that he had
an approved mitigation plan?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. I think we should -- the county
should withdraw this at this point, if the Board so deems.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's fine.
MS. CURLEY: I think so, too, because he actually had
documentation when he was here last time.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, I'd rather him being here, too,
so -- for due process, also.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, the first thing we
have to do is modify the agenda. I need a motion to modify the
agenda so the county can remove this case.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
MS. ELROD: I make that motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
April 27, 2023
Page 104
Okay. See, you've got me finally trained, Patrick.
MR. WHITE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Which brings us to?
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 11, CESD20180015567,
Christine C. Sullivan Revocable Trust.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MUCHA: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let the record reflect the
respondent is not present.
Okay. Joe, do you want to read this into record for us?
MR. MUCHA: Yes, sir. For the record, Joe Mucha,
supervisor, Collier County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On July 28th of 2022, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
OR6165, Page 3462, for more information.
The violation has been abated as of March 2nd of 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $100 per day for the period from January 25th of 2023 to
March 2nd, 2023, for 37 days, for a total fine amount of $3,700.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 have been paid,
operational costs for today's hearing is $59.35, for a total fine amount
of $3,759.35.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And if -- Ms. Sullivan actually had
surgery, so she couldn't be here today, but she submitted two letters,
one from herself and one from her contractor.
MS. BUCHILLON: They have a copy of it.
MR. MUCHA: Okay.
April 27, 2023
Page 105
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, the Board has a copy of it.
Okay. Anybody -- and it has been abated.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. I'll make a motion to deny the county's
imposition of fines. I think this is truly a Hurricane Ian delay
because of the dock and --
MS. ELROD: Second.
MS. CURLEY: And a nice letter from the vendor. We
appreciate that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion, and we
have a second. All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Abstain.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Okay. It passes.
THE COURT REPORTER: Did you say "abstain"?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, abstains. He likes to use
big words.
MR. WHITE: I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I abstain.
MR. WHITE: The only way that I believe you can abstain is if
you have a conflict of interest. Are you --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I know both parties.
MR. WHITE: The fact that you know them isn't significant.
Do you have any financial gain or loss that would happen as a result
of the action the Board would take today?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: No.
April 27, 2023
Page 106
MR. WHITE: Then you do not have an actual conflict of
interest nor do you have anything more than --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I remove my abstention, and I'll vote
yay.
MR. WHITE: Thank you, sir. Otherwise, we would very had
to fill out a Form 8B.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I know.
MR. WHITE: If there's nothing further from the staff on the
agenda today other than --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That concludes all our cases?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Which brings us to the
next item on the agenda, which is the rules. Is that what you were
going to report?
MR. WHITE: Under reports, Roman IX.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: I'm assuming there are no cases, Helen, that
pertain to a request to forward the cases to the County Attorney?
MS. CURLEY: There's two.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yeah, there's two.
MR. WHITE: Do you want to have the Board act on those?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I thought it's kind of -- I didn't
think we had to even vote on it, but --
MS. CURLEY: Well, let's, because --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's vote. It's easier than
arguing.
MR. WHITE: Please.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Someone make a motion to
forward these two cases to the --
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to forward the two
foreclosure cases on the memo dated April 27th, 2023, to the County
April 27, 2023
Page 107
Attorney's Office.
MS. ELROD: Second.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. WHITE: Thank you, Ms. Curley.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Which brings us to the rules. A
year ago we went through the rules. We had made some
recommendations based on our attorney's recommendation, and I
think we were all in agreement at that time but we never signed off
on them. And what the -- our attorney is recommending to us now,
that they be brought back for our actual signatures if we approve that
at our next meeting. Is that a summary on that?
MR. WHITE: That is correct. And if you would indulge me
to just simply reiterate some of the smaller points of what it was
that -- after the workshop, your direction was to work with the
assistant County Attorney's Office as well as the office of the Special
Magistrate, Mr. Neale, to make sure that we were doing as much as
possible having both sets of rules basically be the same.
There are some minor distinctions because you're a deliberative
body, a quasi-judicial body, and you act as a collective as opposed to
just a single individual, the Special Magistrate.
April 27, 2023
Page 108
So other than those kinds of procedural and -- you know, the
existence of the body versus the existence of an individual, there are
agreement between the rules for the Special Magistrate and for the
Code Enforcement Board.
One of the things that we had significant discussion about over
the intervening months has to do with the reviews of case law as to
how the rules of appellate procedure interact with not only these rules
of the Code Enforcement Board but also with the more broad set of
regulations that exist in the county's Code of Laws and Ordinances.
And I believe at this point in time we've harmonized that along
with the state statutes that specifically pertain to the Code
Enforcement Board in a way that -- for example, we completely
deleted the section that had anything to do with what happens in the
event a Board member misses two out of three successive meetings.
The feeling was that it was just simpler to address those things as
they may come up from time to time, because it was actually quite
challenging to be able to harmonize things in a way between the code
of ordinances and laws, which says one thing, and that applies to all
of the other boards because state law sets forth a specific way that
these things are to happen.
So that and what we've, you know, kind of struggled with today
as to the proper way to state a motion in taking a particular type of
action that's on your agenda. I think it's been a challenge for me,
literally since I began this job, to ferret out the distinctions between
those actions that this board has asked to take that are ones that, in a
kind of judicial sense, are truly a continuance of a case -- meaning it's
really not being heard at all. It's just being continued to another
time -- and those cases where you've taken some course of action.
You've given direction to a respondent, and you've told them to do
something by a certain date.
If they're continuing to try to do that something in good faith
April 27, 2023
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before the date you give them, then that is a request on their part, a
motion, to extend the time to comply, to come into compliance. The
fines have not, in a sense, begun to run at all. So you're extending
the time to comply.
The other simple case is like today where you saw a lot of these
where someone wants to have more time to abate but their fines have
already begun to accrue. Those people are asking to extend the time
to impose the fines. And I understand that the prior orders and even
some of the summary sheets you had today specifically stated that the
Board granted a continuance.
And all I'm trying to do in these rules, in what it is that has been
written and is being clarified with these amendments to the rule, is to
make abundantly clear going forward that there's simply those two
species of things that the Board does to put off to another day. The
first of those are motions to continue. It's a case where you've never
made a finding of fact or a conclusion of law. You've not imposed a
finding of violation or set a time frame to come into compliance or
established what the fine would be if you didn't.
You're simply, as in the judicial process, continuing to the future
the point in time where you'll actually take some substantive action
and issue an order that directs the respondent to take some action
themselves. Anything that takes place after that is a motion to
extend the time of whatever action your prior order directed them to
do.
The only other type of motion that's out there that typically is an
issue for this board and was one of the things that I think began the
journey for me in rewriting and trying to amend these is a motion for
a rehearing, because -- the first time we encountered it with me as
your counsel, the way the rules were written wasn't the way that I
believe the prior practice had taken place.
We've rewritten those so that it comports with what that prior
April 27, 2023
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practice was, and we've made abundantly clear, when you weave in
the rules of appellate procedure that talk about, when Mr. Kaufman
finally puts his signature on the paper, that's the rendition of the
order. That's not the same thing as the oral reporting of the order
like we do today here at the hearing, nor is it the same thing as when
it's actually -- that order that you've signed and rendered is,
quote-unquote, filed with Helen, the secretary.
Usually it's the same exact date. But I've seen one instance
where it happened over a weekend, and it wasn't, quote-unquote, filed
because the certificate of service wasn't issued to the respondent.
So we've gone ahead and taken all of those threads, unwound
them from around the axle, untwisted them, lined them up, hopefully,
in a straight fashion so that going forward hopefully the agendas will
be clear, so that you won't have a debate and discussion at the
podium from a respondent who thinks they're asking for A when,
really, they're asking for B.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me stop you for one second.
MR. WHITE: I was done.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank God.
MR. WHITE: You have to have faith.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a request from one of the
Board members and me to send a copy of the changes -- the
underlined, et cetera, changes in the orders to be emailed to all the
members of the Board. Is that a problem?
MR. WHITE: You said "orders," or do you mean rules?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, not -- the rules; I'm sorry.
MR. WHITE: They were provided, I believe, last evening to
all, but I'm not sure about Mr. York because I may or may not have
had his email.
MS. CURLEY: I got it. I got a redline and regular version.
MR. WHITE: Yes. You should have a black line which
April 27, 2023
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shows no underline or strikethrough and then a tract-changes or
underlined, strikethrough version.
In looking at the black line, I need to make some minor
adjustment to some of the spacing for one of the signatures, and I
believe we may have to modify based on the information today about
the two Board members who resigned and Mr. York being added, but
that is minor stuff.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: So if there are no further questions --
MR. LETOURNEAU: I'm sorry.
MR. WHITE: -- Ms. Kerins may want to comment.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I do have a question.
MR. WHITE: Certainly, certainly.
MR. LETOURNEAU: For the record, Jeff Letourneau, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Historically when somebody came in for an imposition and they
wanted -- they got before the Board, and they asked for either a
continuance or an extension -- obviously, those aren't the right terms
at this point -- they -- the Board either gave them an extension, which
extended the fines or -- no, that stopped the fines right there --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: -- or they gave them a continuance,
which continued the fines. Is that still an option for them at this
point?
MS. KERINS: The way it's written -- it would be, technically,
an extension of time. The way it's written -- Mr. White can correct
me if I'm wrong -- even with an extension of time, the Board would
have the ability to toll the fines for a period of time with an extension
or continue to have them accrue. And they can treat it on a
case-by-case basis. It just streamlines the language in which we're
using so that everyone's on the same page.
April 27, 2023
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MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay.
MS. KERINS: One of the other things that, along with the rule
changes, I'm going to work with staff on doing is having -- because
we're going to have -- these have to be in writing, submitted to the
secretary prior to the hearings.
I want to see a form and a kind a set forth thing that the public's
able to follow and complete that, for example, on an imposition,
might help them address the factors or, if they have documents in
support of why they need an extension of time, to submit them, or if
they're coming in and saying, oh, well, you know, permitting's taking
forever, that they need to submit documents as to what their actual
case is so that staff has an ability to actually review it and see
whether or not that is the case.
And it gives the public an ability to articulate their arguments to
you-all in a manner that might be something better than just giving
something verbal up here, as some people might find this
intimidating. But it gives an extra, kind of, layer of protection for
due process to make sure the Board's well apprised of everything that
can be going on.
MR. WHITE: And I'd say that we've tried to do that informally
plenty of times when it's a motion for a reduction or abatement that's
made orally at the podium by a respondent. What we're trying to do
is to formalize as well, from the staff's perspective, more of what
those factors are both on the aggravating, if you will, as well as the
mitigating factors that might apply.
So we're just trying to give the Board as much information going
in as possible to be able to make the most well-reasoned decision.
I think from a procedural perspective, if the Board is
comfortable, essentially, approving the form of the rules as they're
being presented today, certainly all of you will have a chance to
review them at your leisure.
April 27, 2023
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My email makes clear that if you want to contact me, email,
text, voice, whichever way is easiest for you, I'm glad to have a
one-on-one discussion, but I'm certainly willing to answer any
questions you might have right now so that, you know, we're all kind
of on the same page.
MS. CURLEY: I haven't read them.
MR. WHITE: You read the prior versions, though.
MR. AYASUN: I know we asked this question before, and I
know you answered it --
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir.
MR. AYASUN: -- but I just want to make it clear. Where is
this $59.68 coming from?
MR. WHITE: You'll have to defer -- I'll have to defer to
Mr. Letourneau.
MR. AYASUN: Mr. Letourneau, where is it coming from?
MR. LETOURNEAU: It's coming from the office procedures
of getting this case to the hearing, paperwork. I don't know, even
though -- printing, whatever the costs are for Helen's team to get that
case brought forward to the Code Enforcement Board. It's minimal
because you guys' salary is so low that -- compared to the Special
Magistrate, which could be, like, double the opps costs.
MR. AYASUN: So we want to leave it as it is, then, no
change?
MR. WHITE: It isn't anything that your rules specifically
address. It does flow from the state statute that allows -- essentially,
the phrase we use is operational costs to be included. I've argued
both as a former member, I can say now, of the Contractors Licensing
Board, that, you know, they ought to be more realistic numbers, and
certainly I feel the case could be made here, but it comes down to a
circumstance where typically the amount of the fines are so large that
someone who's not abated their case timely, those operational costs
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aren't significant. I still think that the county is owed its due, but it's
not my place to make that determination.
MS. CURLEY: Well, isn't that on a budget item for the
county? It's not -- we're not a profit center for the county.
MR. WHITE: Absolutely. I'm just saying that when I've gone
through in my former role in the job Ms. Kerins has, I've looked at it
and basically told the staff I believe that you could charge more. But
that's an administrative decision, and I support that as well.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think at one time back many, many
years ago, we used to charge for the actual salaries of the --
MR. WHITE: Yeah.
MR. LETOURNEAU: -- employees, but -- and you can correct
me if I'm wrong -- there was a court case in Florida where that was
struck down because that's like double dipping on taxpayer money.
We're all getting paid by taxpayers to do the job. This is more for
the hard costs of bringing this.
MR. AYASUN: I don't have a problem with the $59. I have a
problem with the 98 cents. Make it --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, that's just because Helen makes
some mistakes, and we have to have extra paper added onto --
MR. WHITE: It's just like the Clerk of Courts office when you
pay to record documents; there's those additional charges for pages.
MS. CURLEY: All right. So does somebody need to make a
motion accept the modified rules as we received them so we can
adopt them --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That was my understanding.
MS. CURLEY: -- next month?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The problem is that two of the
members who had originally worked on the rules are no longer with
us, and we have new members on the Board.
MS. CURLEY: So do you want to delay it another month?
April 27, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I think delaying it another month
would be proper.
MR. AYASUN: Is that a continuance or --
MS. CURLEY: Extension.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's an extension of time.
MR. WHITE: That's simply taking a recommendation from
your counsel that we'll have a similar set of documents presented to
you for a formal approval at next month's meeting, and if there's any
further discussion that needs to happen after March -- excuse
me -- May's meeting --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It won't be with you.
MR. WHITE: It will be with me, except it will be over the
phone because I'll be dialing in from Florida Keys.
MS. CURLEY: So we can't -- we can't put it on the agenda for
approval next month, and if anybody doesn't --
MR. WHITE: You could.
MS. CURLEY: -- then we can skip it? You know, why don't
we just put it on the agenda so we can get it over with, and then the
next month, if somebody has an issue, they can say, no, wait, hold on.
I need a point of clarification next month. If not, John Fuentes has
already looked at it, and he's not here and he's already said "I'm good
with it."
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He signed off on it.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. So, I mean, let's just cut the
bureaucracy out of this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's okay with me.
MR. WHITE: No one's made a motion, so...
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to put the amended rules on
the --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Agenda.
MS. CURLEY: -- agenda next month for approval --
April 27, 2023
Page 116
MR. WHITE: And signature.
MS. CURLEY: -- and signature.
MR. AYASUN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MS. CURLEY: I should say for review, approval, and
signature, just in case.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. All those in favor as --
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
MR. YORK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. AYASUN: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Any other -- you wanted to scold us? Talk to us?
MS. KERINS: I'm good.
MS. CURLEY: Motion to adjourn.
MS. KERINS: I'm just here to help Mr. White with the rules, if
needed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, we are then
adjourned -- should we welcome our newest leader?
MS. BUCHILLON: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What? Tom, do you want to
come up and give about a 10-minute speech.
MR. IANDIMARINO: I usually go longer.
MS. CURLEY: You have fifteen seconds.
April 27, 2023
Page 117
MR. WHITE: That's that NDS training.
MS. ELROD: Terri, I heard your eyes roll.
MR. IANDIMARINO: Well, thank you. Tom Iandimarino,
new division director for Code Enforcement Board.
It's welcome [sic] to be here, welcome to -- glad to have met
you, and I've spoken to a couple of you in the past; Mr. White. So,
you know, just -- let's work together moving forward. And those
hard costs of 59 and change are hard costs. You know, that's a -- it
really costs us a lot of money.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, I'd like to make a
recommendation along that that we increase it by a dollar and provide
coffee for the Board.
MR. IANDIMARINO: I don't hear a second. I don't hear a
second.
MS. CURLEY: No, we don't need any more --
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think it was traditionally the Code
Enforcement director that was in charge of coffee, right? I'm sure he
plans to carry that along.
MR. IANDIMARINO: And from what I understand, the new
rules rule that out, so we're good.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Are those rules signed off on?
MR. IANDIMARINO: Almost. Next month.
So in the meantime, thank you very much for what you do. I
know this is a challenge to sit up here. I volunteered for a board in
the past, and I know it's a lot of work [sic] out of your time, and you
have jobs that you also have to take care of on the side and families
to take care of. So thank you very much for coming out and doing
the dedications that you do.
So, on that, I'm done. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We are adjourned.
MR. WHITE: Welcome aboard.
April 27, 2023
MR. IANDIMARINO: Thank you.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:21 p.m.
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
ROBER KAUFMAN, CHAIRMAN
These minutes approved by the Board on aq ,v5,A02g, as
presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC.
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