BCC Minutes 03/28/2023March 28, 2023
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, March 28, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders (Telephonically)
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
Page 1
March 28, 2023
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
March 28, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; – Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; – Vice Chair
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; – CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; – CRAB Co-Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A
CONSENT ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL
OF THE DAY’S CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE.
Page 2
March 28, 2023
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC
PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM
TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
Page 3
March 28, 2023
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance
A. Invocation by Reverend Edward Gleason, Trinity-by-the-Cove Episcopal
Church.
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent agenda.)
B. February 28, 2023, BCC Meeting Minutes
C. February 21, 2023, BCC Workshop Meeting Minutes
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
a) 20 Years - Irene Johnson - Library - Program Coordinator
b) 20 Years - Dennis Linguidi - Information Technology -
Network Administrator II
c) 20 Years - Corey Ford - Public Utilities Engineering & Project
Management - Applications Analyst II
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
a) 25 Years - John Kennedy, Facilities Management -
Tradesworker - Structural/General III
b) 25 Years - Jeanne Marcella - Transportation Management
Services - Administrative Support Specialist II
Page 4
March 28, 2023
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation designating April 2023 as Child Abuse Prevention Month in
Collier County. To be accepted by Linda Goldfield, CEO, Youth Haven.
B. Proclamation designating April 16 - 23, 2023, as Pickleball Week in Collier
County. To be accepted by Terri Graham and Chris Evon, co-founders of
Minto US OPEN Pickleball Championships.
C. Proclamation designating March 26 - April 1, 2023, as the 40th Anniversary
of Know Your County Government Week in Collier County. To be
accepted by Tish Roland, Collier County University Extension/4-H Youth
Development, Mikie Stroh, Collier County Public Schools, Diane Moore,
League of Women Voters, and participating youth from Collier County
Public Schools.
5. PRESENTATIONS
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item is Continued from the February 28, 2023, BCC Meeting.
Recommendation that the Board adopts an Ordinance creating the unpaved
private road emergency repair municipal service taxing unit by authorizing a
Page 5
March 28, 2023
levy of not to exceed one (1.0) mil of ad valorem taxes per year. (All
Districts)
B. This item is continued from the June 28, 2022, and July 12, 2022, BCC
Meetings. A Resolution of the Board of County Commissioners proposing
County-initiated amendments to the Collier County Growth Management
Plan, Ordinance 89-05, as amended, to address housing initiatives to allow
affordable housing by right in certain commercial zoning districts with a
sunset date; to increase density for affordable housing; to establish a
Strategic Opportunity Sites Subdistrict; and to increase density for
affordable housing projects along Collier Area Transit routes; specifically
amending the Future Land Use Element and Future Land Use Map; Golden
Gate City Sub-Element of Golden Gate Area Master Plan Element and
Future Land Use Map; the Immokalee Area Master Plan Element and Future
Land Use Map; and adding a policy to the Transportation Element pertaining
to affordable housing along transit routes; and furthermore directing
transmittal of these amendments to the Florida Department of Economic
Opportunity. [PL20210000660] (All Districts)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Recommendation to direct the County Attorney to advertise and bring back
for a public hearing an Ordinance establishing the Collier County Health
Freedom Bill of Rights, and to adopt the Collier County Health Freedom
Resolution. (Sponsored by Commissioner Hall) (All Districts)
B. Recommendation to nominate and appoint up to eight members to the
County Government Productivity Committee. (All Districts)
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No. 23-
8058, “Golden Gate City Transmission Water Main Improvements - Phase
1A - Golf Course” to Accurate Drilling Systems, Inc., in the amount of
$4,008,590, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreement.
(Project #70253) (Companion to Items #11B and #11C) (Matt McLean,
Public Utilities Engineering Division Director) (District 3)
B. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, ex-officio of the
Collier County Water-Sewer District, award Request for Professional
Page 6
March 28, 2023
Services (“RPS”) No. 22-8042 for “CEI Services for Golden Gate City
Transmission Water Main Improvements,” to AIM Engineering and
Surveying, Inc., in the amount of $1,817,423.25, and authorize the Chairman
to sign the attached agreement. (Project #70253) (Companion to Items #11A
and #11C) (Matt McLean, Public Utilities Engineering Division Director)
(District 3)
C. Recommendation to authorize budget amendments to reallocate $15,000,000
funding within CWS Bond #2 Proceeds Fund (419) and to reallocate
$1,173,628 debt service funding between the CWS Operating Fund (408),
Water Impact Fee Fund (411) and Wastewater Impact Fee Capital Fund
(413). (Companion to Items #11A and #11B) (Matt McLean, Public Utilities
Engineering Division Director) (All Districts)
D. Recommendation to approve the purchase of Property, Boiler & Machinery,
Terrorism, and Watercraft Hull insurance as outlined in the Executive
Summary and authorize the County Manager or designee to complete any
applications or other documents necessary to bind coverage and services for
a one-year period effective April 1, 2023. Additionally, approval to purchase
a thirty (30) days coverage extension is requested in the event it is required
for the purposes of avoiding a gap in coverage and to better negotiate the
terms and conditions of the renewal. (Michael K. Quigley, Division
Director, Risk Management) (All Districts)
E. Recommendation to accept and approve an Amended and Restated Disposal
Capacity Agreement with Okeechobee Landfill, Inc., a Florida Corporation,
for a term of five years, beginning July 1, 2023, with one five (5) year
renewal option, providing for the transfer and disposal of biosolids, and to
reserve airspace for storm generated debris from a natural disaster. (Kari
Ann Hodgson, P.E., Director, Solid & Hazardous Waste Management
Division) (All Districts)
F. Recommendation to adopt a policy for the use of the Workforce Housing
Land Acquisition portion of the voter-approved Local Government
Infrastructure One-Cent Sales Surtax. (Cormac Giblin, Interim Director,
Economic Development and Housing Division) (All Districts)
G. Recommendation to adopt the 2023 Strategic Plan with the inclusion of
minor changes based upon direction received at the Board Workshop on
February 21, 2023 and provide direction on Board and County Manager's
Page 7
March 28, 2023
Office priority initiatives. (Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager) (All Districts)
H. Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase with: (1)
Brian Blocker; (2) Maximo Guerra and Sigrid Guerra; (3) Andrew J. Ruben
and Nancy L. Ruben, Trustees of the Andrew J. Ruben and Nancy L. Ruben
Revocable Trust, dated July 30, 2021; (4) Tamera Sparkman, formerly
known as Tamera Gibson-Demello; and (5) Paul Michael Zani and Ashley
Christina Zani under the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program, at
a cost not to exceed $371,300 and accept a Project Status Update. (Ed Finn,
Deputy County Manager) (District 5)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 8
March 28, 2023
A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for
Ardena, PL20210000845, and authorize the County Manager, or
designee, to release the Final Obligation Bond in the total amount of
$4,000 to the Project Engineer or the Developer’s designated agent.
(District 2)
2) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for Azure
at Hacienda Lakes - Phase 3, PL20200002390, and authorize the
County Manager, or designee, to release the Final Obligation Bond in
the total amount of $4,000 to the Project Engineer or the Developer’s
designated agent. (District 1)
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer facilities and accept the conveyance of the potable water and
sewer facilities for Soluna, PL20220006195. (District 3)
4) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water
utility facilities and accept the conveyance of the water facilities for
Terreno at Valencia Golf and Country Club Phase 1A-1 (Water Only),
PL20220008880. (District 5)
5) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Esplanade Golf and Country Club
of Naples Benvenuto Court, Application Number PL20150002533
(FP) and Application Number PL20150002208 (SDP) and authorize
the release of the maintenance security in the amount of $289,141.69.
(District 3)
6) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Price Street Plaza, Application
Number PL20170001084 (FP) and Application Number
PL20150000343 (SDP) and authorize the release of the maintenance
security in the amount of $105,488.61. (District 1)
Page 9
March 28, 2023
7) Recommendation to approve an agreement for the purchase of Parcel
101FEE required for construction of the Veterans Memorial
Boulevard Extension (Phase 2), Project #60198. Estimated Fiscal
Impact: $3,411,575. The source of funding is impact fees and/or gas
taxes. (District 2)
8) Recommendation to approve the selection committee’s ranking and
authorize staff to begin contract negotiations with the top four ranked
firms related to Request for Professional Services (“RPS”) No. 22-
8054, “CEI Continuing Services Agreement for Transportation
Engineering,” so that proposed agreements may be brought back for
the Board’s consideration at a future meeting. (All Districts)
9) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution to hold a public hearing to
consider vacating two unimproved 30-foot-wide public rights-of-way,
described as Avenue “B” and First Street, according to the Col-Lee-
Co Terrace Subdivision Plat, as recorded in Plat Book 1, page 32 of
the Public Records of Collier County, Florida. The subject property is
located on the south side of U.S. 41 between Fredrick Street and Palm
Street in Section 11, Township 50 South, Range 25 East, Collier
County, Florida. (Petition VAC-PL20220000374) (District 4)
10) Recommendation to approve the expenditure of Tourist Development
Tax funding in the amount of $300,000 for a Purchase Order to
Crowder-Gulf Joint Venture, Inc. to provide removal of marine debris
and other biological debris on the beaches and waterways of Collier
County due to red tide, approve all necessary budget amendments, and
make a finding that this item promotes tourism. (Project No. 90077)
(All Districts)
11) Recommendation to approve the Collier Area Transit Title VI
Program Update ensuring equal access to any person without regard to
race, color, or national origin and authorize its submittal to Federal
Transit Administration (FTA). (All Districts)
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency and the Board of County Commissioners review and accept
the 2022 Annual Reports for the two community redevelopment
Page 10
March 28, 2023
component areas: Bayshore Gateway Triangle and Immokalee and
publish the reports on the appropriate websites. (All Districts)
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to award Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No. 22-8088,
“Collier County Sheriff’s Special Operations Building Flooring
Replacement” Project, to Wayne Wiles Floorcoverings, Inc., in the
amount of $104,900, authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement. (District 4)
2) Recommendation to approve a First Amendment to Agreement No.
14-6188 with Tetra Tech, Inc., for “FEMA Acceptable Monitoring for
Disaster Generated Debris,” to exercise the last renewal term through
July 7, 2024, to adjust the fee schedule rates effective as of October 4,
2022, through July 7, 2024, and authorize the Chairman to sign the
attached amendment. (All Districts)
3) To award Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No. 22-8034, “Fire Safety
Systems Repair, Maintenance & Replacement,” to Dynafire, LLC, as
the primary vendor, and National Security Fire Alarm Systems, LLC,
as the secondary vendor, and authorize the Chairman to sign the
attached agreements. (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 15 to Collier County
Sport Complex Phase 2.1 and 2.2A under the Sixth Amendment to
Agreement No. 17-7198 with Manhattan Construction (Florida), Inc.,
resulting in a net reduction in the amount of $142,028.01. (District 3,
District 5)
5) Recommendation to 1) approve the attached Agreement and Access
and Utility Easement to allow VB BTS, II, LLC, access to its
proposed communications tower through Palm Springs Neighborhood
Park and authorize the Chairman to execute same on behalf of the
Board of County Commissioners; 2) Direct the County Manager or
her designee, to record the Access and Utility Easement in the Public
Records of Collier County, Florida; and 3) Direct staff to ensure that
all proposed improvements discussed herein are part of and
incorporated within the SDP (PL20210000655) (District 1)
Page 11
March 28, 2023
6) Recommendation to approve the First Amendment to Agreement No.
15-6365 with Ceres Environmental Services, Inc. for “FEMA
Acceptable Debris Removal for Disaster Generated Debris,” to adjust
the fee schedule rates. (All Districts)
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to accept an award from the Florida Department of
State Division of Historical Resources in the amount of $256,436 for
restoration of the historic cottages at Mar-Good Harbor Park in
Goodland with a required one-to-one match and ten (10) year
restrictive covenants, authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
agreement and authorize the necessary Budget Amendments. (Public
Service Grant Fund 709 and Public Service Match Fund 710)
(All Districts)
2) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign two
(2) First Amendments to the U.S. Housing and Urban Development
Emergency Solutions Grants Program subrecipient agreements
between the Collier County Board of County Commissioners, The
Shelter for Abused Women & Children, Inc., and Youth Haven, Inc.,
to modify the period of performance. (Housing Grant Fund 705)
(All Districts)
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign the
First Amendment to the subrecipient agreement between Collier
County and Project HELP, Inc., utilizing U.S. Housing and Urban
Development Community Development Block Grant Program funding
in the amount of $59,000. (Housing Grant Fund 705) (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to approve an “After-the-Fact” agreement with the
Area Agency on Aging for Southwest Florida, Inc., American Rescue
Plan Act funding under the Home-Based Community Services-
Enhanced Home Care for the Elderly grant program for the Collier
County Services for Seniors Program and authorize the necessary
Budget Amendment in the amount of $334,665.56. (Human Service
Grant Fund 707) (All Districts)
5) Recommendation to authorize the Chairman to sign a mortgage
satisfaction as a result of Collier Housing Alternatives, Inc., meeting
Page 12
March 28, 2023
the 20-year loan term and full repayment and approve a Budget
Amendment to recognize $34,333.99 in program income for the State
Housing Initiatives Partnership Program Fiscal Year 2022-2023
(SHIP Grant Fund 791). (All Districts)
6) Recommendation to approve the Conservation Collier Rattlesnake
Hammock Preserve Final Management Plan under the Conservation
Collier Program. (All Districts)
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve an Assumption Agreement assigning all
rights, duties, and benefits and obligations to Weatherproofing
Technologies, Inc., under Agreement #18-7403, “Indoor Air Quality
Testing” and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreement."
(All Districts)
2) Recommendation to approve an Assumption Agreement assigning all
rights, duties, and benefits and obligations to Carolina Filters Inc.,
under Agreement #22-7974, “Cartridge Filters for Water Treatment
Plants” and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Agreement.
(All Districts)
3) Recommendation to authorize necessary budget amendment for the
executed Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between Collier
County Emergency Medical Service (EMS) and Community &
Human Services Division for the Public Health Infrastructure project
in the amount of $1,700,000.00, for the purchase of equipment and
delivery costs of up to four new ambulances and four light body
trucks under the American Rescue Plan Act, Local Fiscal Recovery
Fund, and authorize the County Manager or designee to sign a Letter
of Intent for a non-binding reservation the purchase of equipment,
products, or services under this MOU for ARP21-23, replacing
Subrecipient Agreement ARP21-19. (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to approve the sale and disposal of surplus assets
per Resolution 2013-095 via public auction on April 22, 2023;
approve the addition of surplus items received subsequent to the
approval of this Agenda Item for sale in the auction; and authorize the
Procurement Director, as designee for County Manager, to sign for the
Page 13
March 28, 2023
transfer of vehicle titles. (All Districts)
5) Recommendation to approve the administrative report prepared by the
Procurement Services Division for various County Division's After-
the-Fact purchases requiring Board approval in accordance with
Procurement Ordinance 2017-08 and the Procurement Manual, as well
as, to approve the payment of $59,120.62 in expenditures that have
been incurred that were out of compliance with the contracts or
procurement requirements for associated invoices that have not been
paid. (All Districts)
6) Recommendation to approve the administrative report prepared by the
Procurement Services Division for disposal of property that is no
longer viable and then removal from the County’s capital asset
records. (All Districts)
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the FY22-23 Adopted Budget. (The budget amendments in the
attached Resolution have been reviewed and approved by the Board of
County Commissioners via separate Executive Summaries.) (All
Districts)
2) Recommendation to 1) Accept the findings of the Board’s Emergency
Medical Authority; 2) Accept the findings of the Director of the
Bureau of Emergency Services; 3) Grants the Certificate of Public
Convenience and Necessity to MedTrek Medical Transport, Inc.; 4)
Authorizes the Chairman to execute the Permit and Certificate; and 5)
Approve a Budget Amendment to recognize and appropriate the $250
application fee. (All Districts)
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
1) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution establishing an East of 951
Ad Hoc Advisory Committee. (District 3, District 5)
Page 14
March 28, 2023
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between March 2, 2023, and March 15, 2023, pursuant to
Florida Statute 136.06. (All Districts)
2) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of March 22,
2023. (All Districts)
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Settlement Agreement with Naples Golf Development, LLC, for
settlement of a Bert Harris Claim filed pursuant to Florida Statutes
§70.001, related to application of the County’s Golf Course
Conversion Ordinance on the Links of Naples Golf Course.
(All Districts)
2) Recommendation to appoint two members to the Forest Lakes
Roadway & Drainage Advisory Committee. (District 4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County
Planning Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
Collier County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the
Board, prior to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items
are scheduled to be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 15
March 28, 2023
A. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the
FY22-23 Adopted Budget. (The budget amendments in the attached
Resolution have been reviewed and approved by the Board of County
Commissioners via separate Executive Summaries.) (All Districts)
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD’S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER’S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
March 28, 2023
Page 2
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If I could have everyone's
attention, we're going to get started in about 60 seconds. So if I can
have you all take your seats, and I'll also remind you to put your cell
phones on silence. We don't want to hear your theme to a movie or,
you know, your favorite song or anything like that. So we'd
appreciate it. We're going to start promptly at 9:00 a.m. So I
appreciate everyone taking their seats. Thank you.
(A brief recess was had.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Good morning, everyone.
County Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: Good morning, everyone.
We're going to start with our invocation from Reverend
Nicholas Caccese, Trinity by the Cove Episcopal Church.
Item #1A
INVOCATION GIVEN BY REVEREND EDWARD GLEASON,
TRINITY-BY-THE-COVE EPISCOPAL CHURCH
REVEREND CACCESE: Thank you. Let us pray.
Almighty God, teach our people to rely on your strength and to
accept their responsibilities to their fellow citizens, that they may
elect trustworthy leaders and make wise decisions for the well-being
of our society, that we may serve you faithfully in our generation and
honor your holy name, and we pray you send down upon those who
hold office in this county the spirit of wisdom, charity, and justice,
that with steadfast purpose they may faithfully serve in their offices
to promote the well-being of all people.
We offer these, our petitions and desires, through your holy
name. Amen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now we have students here that
March 28, 2023
Page 3
are going to lead us in the Pledge. If you all would come forward.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The flags are out of sync.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a motion
to allow Commissioner Saunders to participate by phone today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are we sure we want to do
that? I'll make that motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've got a motion. Do I
have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Good morning, Commissioner Saunders. I know you're under
the weather. I appreciate you dialing in.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Can you hear me okay?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We can, but it sounds like there's
gondolas in the background, or are you somewhere in Europe?
Just -- no, I know you're very sick. I can tell. And, yes, sir, we can
hear you. And I'll make sure I defer to you so you don't fall through
the crack on the conversations and definitely the votes as well. So I
appreciate you calling in this morning, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, yeah, thank you. I
really appreciate it. I just didn't want to spread any disease around
there, so thank you.
March 28, 2023
Page 4
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very appropriate.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) -APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED
W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, this brings us to the proposed
agenda changes for the Board of County Commissioners meeting of
March 28th, 2023.
We have a couple of changes for today. First is move
Item 16K1 to 12A. This is a recommendation to approve and
authorize the Chairman to execute a settlement agreement with
Naples Golf Development, LLC, for settlement of a Bert Harris
Claim filed pursuant to Florida Statutes 70.001 related to application
of the county's Golf Course Conversion Ordinance on the Links of
Naples Golf Course. This is being moved at Commissioner
McDaniel's request.
Item 3A2b to be continued to the April 11th, 2023, BCC
meeting. This is the 25-year recognition for Jeanne Marcella,
Transportation Management Services, Administrative Support
Specialist II. This is being moved at staff's request.
Item 16C5 to be continued to the April 11th, 2023, meeting.
This is a recommendation to, one, approve the attached Agreement
and Access and Utility Easement to allow VB BTS, II, LLC, access
to its proposed communications tower through Palm Springs
March 28, 2023
Page 5
Neighborhood Park, and authorize the Chairman to execute the same
on behalf of the Board of County Commissioners; two, direct the
County Manager or her designee to record the Access and Utility
Easement in the public records of Collier County, Florida, and; three,
direct staff to ensure that all proposed improvements discussed herein
are part of and incorporated within the SDP. This is being moved at
staff's request.
One correction to the index title for 16C1: The ITB number
should be 23-8088 rather than what was published in the agenda
index of 22-8088.
We have a time-certain, Item 10A, to be heard at 10:00 a.m.,
which is to advertise and bring back for a hearing for an ordinance
for the Collier County Health Freedom Bill of Rights, and to adopt
the Collier County Health Freedom Resolution.
And we have court reporter breaks set for 10:30 and 2:50.
With that, I will turn it over to the County Attorney for any
changes.
MR. KLATZKOW: No further changes. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: And to you, Chair, and the Board
members for any further changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, do you have
any changes?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall?
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No changes or --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any ex parte?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- or ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anything?
COMMISSIONER HALL: No ex parte.
March 28, 2023
Page 6
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. No ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I have no changes or ex parte
either.
Okay. Commissioner Saunders, any changes or ex parte?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No changes and no ex parte.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Great. All right.
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2A, approval of today's regular,
consent, and summary agenda as amended.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So do I have a motion to
accept the changes?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did we -- I'll make a motion
for approval of today's agenda as amended.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: As amended, okay. Do I have a
second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
SEE REVERSE SIDE
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
March 28, 2023
Move Item 16K1 to 12A: Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a Settlement
Agreement with Naples Golf Development, LLC, for settlement of a Bert Harris Claim filed pursuant to Florida
Statutes §70.001, related to application of the County’s Golf Course Conversion Ordinance on the Links of Naples
Golf Course. (All Districts) (Commissioner McDaniel’s Request)
Item 3A2b to be continued to the April 11, 2023 BCC Meeting: 25 Years - Jeanne Marcella - Transportation
Management Services - Administrative Support Specialist II (Staff’s Request)
Item 16C5 to be continued to the April 11, 2023: Recommendation to 1) approve the attached Agreement and
Access and Utility Easement to allow VB BTS, II, LLC, access to its proposed communications tower through
Palm Springs Neighborhood Park and authorize the Chairman to execute same on behalf of the Board of County
Commissioners; 2) Direct the County Manager or her designee, to record the Access and Utility Easement in the
Public Records of Collier County, Florida; and 3) Direct staff to ensure that all proposed improvements discussed
herein are part of and incorporated within the SDP (PL20210000655). (District 1) (Staff’s Request)
Notes:
Correction to the Index Title for 16C1: The ITB # should be 23-8088 rather than what was published in the
agenda Index of 22-8088.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 10A to be heard at 10:00 AM: Advertise and bring back for a hearing for an ordinance for the Collier
County Health Freedom Bill of Rights, and to adopt the Collier County Health Freedom Resolution.
5/24/2023 2:18 PM
March 28, 2023
Page 7
Item #2B
FEBRUARY 28, 2023, BCC MEETING MINUTES - APPROVED
AS PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2B, February 28th, 2023, BCC
minutes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Make a motion for approval
as printed.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Item #2C
FEBRUARY 21, 2023, BCC WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES -
APPROVED AS PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2C is approval of the February 21st,
2023, BCC workshop meeting minutes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion to approve?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
Okay. All in favor?
March 28, 2023
Page 8
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: This moves us to awards and recognitions.
We have several today.
Item #3A1
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS- IRENE JOHNSON, LIBRARY
PROGRAM COORDINATOR – PRESENTED
Item 3A1, 20-year attendees.
Item 3A1a, 20 years, Irene Johnson, Library, Program
Coordinator.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Does Commissioner McDaniel
have any late library books or anything we need to -- I thought so.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, yes, very many.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Somebody give her a check.
MS. JOHNSON: I was not ready.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Congratulations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MS. JOHNSON: Thank you very much.
Item #3A1B
March 28, 2023
Page 9
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS- DENNIS LINGUIDI,
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY NETWORK ADMINISTRATOR
II- PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3A1b, 20 years, Dennis Linguidi,
Information Technology, Network Administrator II.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who?
(Applause.)
Item #3A1C
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS - COREY FORD, PUBLIC
UTILITIES ENGINEERING & PROJECT MANAGEMENT
APPLICATIONS ANALYST II – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3A1c, 20 years, Corey Ford, Public
Utilities Engineering and Project Management, Applications Analyst
II.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3A2, our 25-year attendees.
Item #3A2A
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS JOHN KENNEDY,
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT TRADESWORKER
STRUCTURAL/GENERAL III- PRESENTED
Item 3A2a, 25 years, John Kennedy, Facilities Management,
Tradesworker Structural/General III.
(Applause.)
March 28, 2023
Page 10
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. President, congratulations.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 4,
proclamations.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING APRIL 2023 AS CHILD
ABUSE PREVENTION MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY.
ACCEPTED BY LINDA GOLDFIELD, CEO, YOUTH HAVEN -
ADOPTED
Item 4A is a proclamation designating April 2023 as Child
Abuse Prevention Month in Collier County. To be accepted by
Denise Murphy, president of the Board of Youth Haven.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you-all want to say a few
words, Linda?
MS. GOLDFIELD: Go over here?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If you don't know Linda and you
don't know Youth Haven, you really want to check them out. It's an
incredible organization in our community. They recently had a huge
event at the Ritz that I was able to attend, just a packed house, and
heard from some young women that have basically been rescued by
this organization, and men as well.
And so, you know, Linda, I just continue to be impressed by
your organization. This is just a small token from the county. And,
you know, the floor is yours.
MS. GOLDFIELD: Thank you, Rick. Thank you to the other
commissioners.
On behalf of the potentially 70 children who call Youth Haven
home, thank you for raising awareness of child abuse in our
March 28, 2023
Page 11
community. For those of you who do not know, for 51 years Youth
Haven has been the only emergency shelter for children who have
been removed from their homes due to abuse and neglect, oftentimes
homelessness. These are the children of the community. They
deserve better. Together as a community we can provide better
outcomes for these children.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING APRIL 16 - 23, 2023, AS
PICKLEBALL WEEK IN COLLIER COUNTY. ACCEPTED BY
TERRI GRAHAM AND CHRIS EVON, CO-FOUNDERS OF
MINTO US OPEN PICKLEBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS - ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating
April 16th through 23rd, 2023, as Pickleball Week in Collier County.
To be accepted by Terri Graham and Chris Evon, cofounders of
Minto US Open Pickleball Championships.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ladies, either one of you,
absolutely.
MS. GRAHAM: Thank you, Commissioners. Thank you,
Amy, for putting this all together for us again this year.
So this year we have record crowds coming. We have over
3,000 athletes. We have probably 35- to 40,000 people coming to
town for the biggest pickleball party in the world. East Naples
Community Park and the whole Naples area's going to be buzzing.
We have a few things that, when you come to the US Open
Pickleball Championships, we call them goosebumps moments.
March 28, 2023
Page 12
Commissioner LoCastro, you've experienced that where you've
driven into the park. One of those moments is when you turn down
Thomasson Drive and we have 100 U.S. American flags that are put
up very kindly; a lot of work for the Rotary Club.
This year we need your help. This year we are being instructed
that we cannot put up those American flags because of permitting.
And the lady over at -- her name's Diane Lynch. She's just doing her
job, but she says in order for us to line Thomasson with American
flags, the Board of County Commissioners have to approve the flags
this year. And I think it's been every year, quite frankly, because of
the right-of-way.
So this whole -- this proclamation really was perfect timing,
because this all happened last week with Jim Ludwig doing all of our
permitting for us. So we'd kindly like to request that we are able to
put the American flags up again this year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So this is how efficient Collier
County Government is.
Commissioner Kowal, do I have a motion to approve the flags?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I would like to make a motion to
approve the flags along Thomasson.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you have a second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: (No verbal response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
March 28, 2023
Page 13
Next?
MS. GRAHAM: Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MS. GRAHAM: Well, you're all invited. We'd love to have
you come out every day if possible. Commissioner LoCastro, we
expect you to be there again, and all the commissioners as well. You
can see what it's all about firsthand this year. So thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MS. GRAHAM: County Manager, thank you, and, Deputy
County Manager, thank you as well.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No shorts for Commissioner
McDaniel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Attorney right now is like,
wait, we can't be passing motions like -- no, it's okay. Any
objection, County Attorney?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agree.
MR. KLATZKOW: To the flag, no.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes. Okay. There you go.
Done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: To the flag. Jiminy
Christmas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now, that permit's going to cost
you $10,000, by the way. No.
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 26 - APRIL 1, 2023,
AS THE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF KNOW YOUR COUNTY
GOVERNMENT WEEK IN COLLIER COUNTY. ACCEPTED
BY TISH ROLAND, COLLIER COUNTY UNIVERSITY
March 28, 2023
Page 14
EXTENSION/4-H YOUTH DEVELOPMENT, MIKIE STROH,
COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, DIANE MOORE,
LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, AND PARTICIPATING
YOUTH FROM COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS -
ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4C is a proclamation designating
March 26th through April 1st, 2023, as the 40th anniversary of Know
Your County Government Week in Collier County. To be accepted
by Tish Roland, Collier County University Extension 4H Youth
Development; Mikie Stroh, Collier County Public Schools; Diane
Moore, League of Woman Voters; and participating youth from
Collier County Public Schools.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. So this is why we have
so many students playing hooky today, right? You have 40-plus in
here. They're going to stay as long as humanly possible, right.
MS. ROLAND: I think technically we really want -- we want
the kids up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely. Come on up.
MS. ROLAND: And we'll give this to the kids. We'll come
over here. Everybody go up. Tall people in the back.
THE PHOTOGRAPHER: We're going to do back row -- you're
supposed to be tall if you're in the back row. Second row, you're
fine. First row, if you can go down for me on one knee.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now, the students don't know this,
but each of you now have three minutes at the podium to make a
speech. I don't know if you knew it was part of the requirement.
Yeah, it looks easy from the cheap seats, doesn't it?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, while they're clearing the
room, if we could get a motion to accept the proclamations.
March 28, 2023
Page 15
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 7, public comments
on general topics not on the current or future agenda.
MR. MILLER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. I have two
registered speakers for this item, Patrick Wansor, I believe this says,
and Silvia Bethlenfalvy.
MR. WANSOR: Ladies first.
MR. MILLER: You come up to either one of the podiums, and
please start by stating your name.
MS. BETHLENFALVY: Okay. Sylvia Bethlenfalvy. It's
easy.
Thank you, gentlemen, for having us here today to speak. I just
wanted to bring up a topic that came up last week on May 21st
regarding the most recent proposal to alter the current status of
March 28, 2023
Page 16
Lakewood Club into a not-for-profit enterprise called STARability.
While our community is very supportive of this cause, this
development is like landing a spaceship in the middle of a very gentle
and kind and vulnerable neighborhood/community. It is like
bringing Highway 41 into our backyard.
At the meeting on March 21st, the STARability Foundation
opened with a short, very polished film about the lives and stories of
these individuals who are looking for a new home. It is not without
surprise that they would love our location. It is serene and peaceful
and well cherished and loved by its neighborhood. It is not a wonder
that it would be an ideal location.
The Lakewood neighborhood community is a modest
community shared by hundreds of loving friends and families who
share a love for wildlife, peace, and that is here. We would easily
create an equally soul-crushing video of the history of families who
have millions of stories of the laughter and fun that has been had, that
they have built a remarkable and very special thriving community.
Starting with my great uncle who bought his home here in 1979,
my aunts and uncles have also bought neighboring houses in Boca
Ciega Drive and have been coming here ever since. All my cousins
and I share hundreds of loving memories of this very special place,
and we would like to continue this legacy while contributing to the
fabric of our cherished neighborhood.
Over the years, retired hardworking firefighters, policemen,
women, and teachers have been the main buyers in Lakewood
community. We are hardworking people who have saved all of our
lives to have a chance to enjoy this very special paradise.
Every guest I have invited here has fallen in love. I don't know
how replacing our neighborhood community with another community
will make this place better.
There's no promise for a future of STARability nor any
March 28, 2023
Page 17
commitment for tenure. Once they leave, it will be an empty husk,
just like some of the malls on 41.
Aside from breaking our hearts, there are, naturally, deeper
concerns, and there are a few, but I'll try and be fast. The amount of
concrete -- the amount of concrete spread across the large surface
area will prevent the water from draining properly through the
existing soil and probably flood certain houses near by. Even with
Hurricane Ian currently [sic], it was very dry.
The increase in traffic has already massively grown over the last
40 years, so I just imagine it increasing more.
The STARability's coming under --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, your comments are
important to us. Continue.
MS. BETHLENFALVY: Thank you so much. I really
appreciate it. I understand that -- I'll be fast, but I'll try and make my
points quick and fast.
I understand that STARability's coming in under a conditional
use of neighborhood fitness and community center, but there is no
benefit to our community to have this monolith servicing others well
outside of our Lakewood community.
Lakewood was never approached for their board to our
price -- their board to outright purchase this land from the previous
owners. We had no idea that the pool was not tied to the
community, and soon it will be gone. The pool is in great shape.
Fortunately, Mr. Whitesell has agreed to lease it back to us while he
finds a way to develop the land around it.
The existing pool is a godsend, whether for kids/grandchildren
laughing, exercising, and keeping our muscles strong.
The increase -- you know, as a neighborhood community, we are
now spending our retirement paradise in constant fear of how the
land will be used. I am truly heartbroken and have been brought to
March 28, 2023
Page 18
tears all week. I am 54, so I can't imagine what this fight is doing to
the older folks in our community. One woman in her 80s boldly
raised her hand last week, in a very gentle, sweet voice, asked, but
where will the ducks go?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, can you -- you do have to
wrap up a little bit.
MS. BETHLENFALVY: Yeah. At first I thought, what a silly
comment, but then all week I could not think of -- stop thinking about
it. It was probably the most powerful statement I had heard.
Lakewood Golf Club is thriving. Practically every other club is
financially prohibitive -- or private in Naples. Can we not just
increase the taxes on it or even the surrounding area so that it remains
untouched?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it.
MS. BETHLENFALVY: That's it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As a point of order -- and
you're very -- are you here to speak on the same item?
MR. WANSOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. This is coming
before us as a conditional use, and Item No. 7 is for public comment
on items not on today's agenda or a future agenda. And this is
coming back before us as a conditional use.
So though your concerns are expressed and very important to us,
it's technically out of order with regard to the public speakers that we,
in fact, have. Obviously, you've been misinformed. Someone
shared with you that this is where you could come and share your
concerns.
MR. WANSOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But it's very clear that this
item is for not on today's agenda or future agendas. So
noted -- noted that you've got concerns, please. But I just think we
March 28, 2023
Page 19
should stay off comments on items that are going -- this is coming
before us as a conditional use. And with all due respect, it's not fair
to allow you to speak when others who may be in favor of or
opposition of aren't here as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One thing I'd encourage you is you
can speak to any commissioner at any time. It's any -- most any
commissioner at any time --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Of course.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- but you've got to watch the
agenda and see what's coming up, because, I mean, it's a spot-on
point of order that you don't have -- other people weren't given the
same opportunity. So we appreciate --
MS. BETHLENFALVY: Very well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- hearing you out. You know,
once you started talking about something very specific that is
coming --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's no error on your part,
please. And your time is very much important to us; it's just, as a
matter of course --
MR. WANSOR: Understood.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the agenda item is here.
And please feel free to reach out.
MR. WANSOR: How would we make an appointment with
you?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: (Indicating) call, email --
MR. WANSOR: Very well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- any one of us or all of us.
MS. BETHLENFALVY: I apologize, and I can appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No sorries, no sorries
whatsoever. It should have been caught in advance of you coming
here, so...
March 28, 2023
Page 20
MS. BETHLENFALVY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks for coming.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. WANSOR: We will not take up any more time. Thank
you very much, and I would like to speak with you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We welcome your comments.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, that does conclude our speakers
for Item 7.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Can I just make a comment on
that? Because I went to the neighbor planning -- the neighborhood
meeting that these folks attended that night at the south library. I
was in attendance.
The way it was presented -- just to get clarity, the way that it
was presented, that this did not have to come to the Board of County
Commissioners because it was one of the approved uses of a golf
course as a community center. And they were telling the folks that it
was only going to go to the Special Magistrate, and it was not to go --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Was it county staff that said that to
the --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It was -- well, there was one
staff member there, but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is it a conditional use or not?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mike Bosi? Mr. Bosi or
Mr. French.
MR. FRENCH: Good morning. Jamie French, for the record,
your Growth Management director, and with Mike Bosi, our Zoning
director.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
It's a conditional use. All conditional uses, unless they
are -- unless they require EAC, is designed to go to the HEX. It
March 28, 2023
Page 21
does -- we do have a provision within our Administrative Code that if
it's a matter of public concern, that a -- the district commissioner can
request that the hearing not go to the HEX, that it would go to the
Planning Commission and then to the BZA for full evaluation.
I spoke with Commissioner Kowal yesterday about that, was
going to send him an email after this meeting asking him would he
like that to go to the traditional HEX hearing or use the discretion and
the authority that he has as the chair -- or the commissioner of that
district to direct it to go the full CCPC and then the BZA. But we
kind of got -- it's accelerated a bit, so I guess the question --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. It kind of got accelerated
on us. We spoke about this yesterday, so -- but that was my
intentions to eventually -- but they were not aware of that, and I'm
sure, you know, we weren't and staff wasn't ready to really make a
move on that yet. But just to clarify that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're not wrong.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: In all actuality, they were right
to speak today on it because, according to their knowledge, it wasn't
going to come to us. But in the near future, I believe that's the
direction we're going --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, officially, with what has
been decided and announced, they're not out of order speaking
because this --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- isn't coming to us.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- because I haven't yet. We
spoke about --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So having said that, sir, the
floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you want to.
MR. WANSOR: I would just be --
March 28, 2023
Page 22
MR. BOSI: I would say that if -- and it sounds like
Commissioner Kowal has directed it to come to the BZA. This will
be before you. This is going to be a conditional use that will be
heard by the BZA, so I'm not sure how much you want to get into --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We need to do that at a -- not off
the cuff here right now. So right now, as far as what's on paper and
what's been decided, that's not -- that's not a motion that has been
talked about or decided.
MR. BOSI: He doesn't need to make a motion. Each
individual commissioner has the authority from the LDC to direct
staff to send the petition to the full CCPC.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I agree, but I just mean I don't
think this meeting, him saying it off the top of his head -- so what I'm
saying is what's in print right now does not have these two speakers
out of order.
MR. BOSI: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And although that might be a slight
technicality, unless any commissioner has an objection, I don't object
to hearing from you for three minutes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's already taken your time,
sir. That's what we were talking about before.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: See, you kind of understand my
intent, though, is to bring this back to the full committee?
MR. WANSOR: Are you talking to those gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I'm just talking in general.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, the floor is yours.
MR. WANSOR: You know, I just wanted to reiterate that it's a
deeded community, and when deeded communities are deeded, it
seems that they should stay residential with the two golf courses.
My family -- I have three units -- well, my son, my daughter,
and my wife and I are all in one place. My daughter's buying, and
March 28, 2023
Page 23
my grandchildren are going to come. To have the pool taken away,
to have the sight of a building not look out at the nice golf course,
and then all the people that use -- you know, enjoy the surrounding
areas, it seems to me that there would be a better place for this
facility. I have a severely handicapped nephew myself, so I can
understand the need for a facility like this. I just would think that a
better place would be someplace not residential.
So I would look forward to not taking up any more of the time,
but if this can come to bear or I can speak with somebody at another
time, I would much appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So when this does come to us,
what Commissioner McDaniel said is spot on, then, if Commissioner
Kowal determines that he would like it to come to the Board, then
this becomes a much more formal process for this group, and then
speakers from your community, pro or con or what have you, then
their voice needs to be heard in here, or at least converse with us as
commissioners, because we're obviously going to vote on something.
MR. WANSOR: I do appreciate all your time. Thank you
very much. And, Commissioner Daniels [sic], I believe I will
contact you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Look forward to it, sir.
MR. WANSOR: Thank you, gentlemen. Good day.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
Next? What else do we have, Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: That's all we have for Item 7, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Item #9A
AN ORDINANCE CREATING THE UNPAVED PRIVATE ROAD
EMERGENCY REPAIR MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT
March 28, 2023
Page 24
BY AUTHORIZING A LEVY OF NOT TO EXCEED ONE (1.0)
MIL OF AD VALOREM TAXES PER YEAR - MOTION TO
CONTINUE TO A FUTURE BCC MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 9, advertised public hearings. Item
9A. This item was continued from February 28th, 2023. It's a
recommendation that the Board adopts an ordinance creating the
unpaved private road emergency repair Municipal Service Taxing
Unit by authorizing a levy of not to exceed one mill of ad valorem
taxes per year.
This item was brought to the agenda by Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is Michelle Arnold here?
Oh, there she is. Okay. And as she's coming to the podium, I want
to make one quick announcement. This is this young lady's last ever
Board of County Commissioners meeting as an official employee of
Collier County. And I wanted -- I attended her retirement party on
Friday night, and -- Friday a week ago, and I just want to say thank
you for all you've done for our community. Thank you.
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you. I can't believe it's been 34 years.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did you set a timer on her?
Very apropos.
MR. MILLER: Inadvertently, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What, are you crazy?
Ma'am, go ahead.
MS. ARNOLD: I just wanted to give you-all an update on what
we've done for this proposed MSTU program. We sent out letters to
all the property owners that we thought would be affected, and that
was a total of about 2,300 letters that were sent. We did receive
March 28, 2023
Page 25
some feedback both via phone as well as email. About 90 -- well, 92
inquiries were sent in.
We noticed as a part of the inquiries that some of the properties
that were sent letters should have been -- not received the letters
because they were actually on paved property or, you know, we
include a larger amount of the roadway than we intended to.
So we excluded those properties. But of the 92 inquiries that
we received, 28 of them expressed a desire to opt out of the
ordinance; 29 were in favor of the program. In addition to the 29,
there is a petition that I received from property owners along Ivy
Way that was in favor of the proposal.
We received about 26 general questions -- or 26 individuals sent
general questions; didn't indicate whether or not they were in favor or
opposed. There were two individuals that expressed opposition to
the program, and then they -- there were a couple others that
informed us they are currently maintaining the road and probably
would qualify for opting out. And, again, there were some more that
were paved.
I have all of the emails that we received and some of the
responses that we provided to the inquiries that we received. But
there's a mix of whether or not people are in favor of this proposed
ordinance. It looks like those that are on roadways that are not being
maintained currently are definitely in favor of it. And it goes to say
those that are currently maintaining them are not in favor of the
proposal.
If you have any questions, I'm here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did, and maybe I need to
speak with Trinity. I -- you know, this circumstance has been going
on in our community forever. We have over 110 miles of private
roads. The goal here is to bring some level of continuity in
maintenance to these roads so that we can get an ambulance down
March 28, 2023
Page 26
there to be able to take care of the people.
You know, it's been brought up, and it's a known concern, or a
known issue, if you buy on a private road, that it's your responsibility
to take care of your road, but it doesn't work that way. There is an
imposition of an MSTU by the government when the road becomes
in such ill repair that it can't be traversed at all, and that is typically
done after the fact when the road is no longer passible, which is
excessively expensive, and then, in turn, burdens the people that are
on that road. Where having a more even-keeled approach to this,
which is the rationale, is a different way of taking care of it.
So I'd like to speak with Trinity, if I could, just because one of
the things -- and, again, I'd like to hear comments from my
colleagues. But one of the things I'd like to solidify is the semantics
behind this with regard to how we're going to administer this if, in
fact, this passes.
MS. SCOTT: For the record, Trinity Scott, Transportation
Management Services department head.
We have not finalized policies and procedures -- standard
operating procedures with regard to this. We have been awaiting for
direction from the Board of whether or not we would -- whether or
not this would pass.
Since the determination would be based on health, safety, and
welfare, if -- I'm looking at my vision of how I would need to
implement this is that we would need to have kind of an advisory
committee, if you would, that would be made of Sheriff, EMS, as
well as the fire districts to provide that feedback to our staff of what
are the worst roadways, then we can address and come up with the
cost estimates and see how far down that list that we could get on an
annual basis.
With regard to opt out, we would have to develop a policy with
regard to how people would opt out, thinking that you can't opt out
March 28, 2023
Page 27
just in front of your place if the rest of it -- so we may -- we may have
to massage that a little bit to where it's an opt out for the entire road,
you know, a length of road, something along those lines. But those
are all details that we will work out if, indeed, the Board decides to
give us direction to move this forward.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The Clerk asked some
questions yesterday that I thought were valid with regard to the
accounting and then the accountability of the expenditure of the
funds. That was brought up in her notes as well. How -- what's
your proposition -- if this passes, of course, what's the -- what's the
process that we can solidify the expenses and how they're attributed
to the individual roads?
MS. SCOTT: What I would propose doing is very similar to
what we do on our own roadways, which is utilizing our existing
asset management system, which is called Cartegraph, where each of
the roadways would be inventoried in there, and any work orders that
we would open would be attributable to that particular segment.
That way we could delineate what hours are worked on those specific
roadways.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And you're planning
on county staff taking care of this ongoing maintenance, or are we
going to contract it out?
MS. SCOTT: It will most likely be contracted out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, how many public
comments do we have?
MR. MILLER: We have six registered speakers for this item,
Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's go to those.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Nancy Reichard. She
will be followed by William White.
March 28, 2023
Page 28
MS. REICHARD: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning, Nancy.
MR. MILLER: You can pull that down closer to you. There
you go. Thank you, ma'am.
MS. REICHARD: I am one of those people --
MR. MILLER: Can you state your name, please.
MS. REICHARD: I'm sorry. Nancy Reichard. And I am one
of those people who live at the end of a mile unmaintained dirt road.
It is a one-lane most of the way. When it rains, people can't even get
back to me. Fortunately, I have an off-road vehicle, and I can -- I
can make it back there. But it makes it very difficult even for friends
and family to come back when it's the rainy season.
We just had some rain not too long ago. The rain filled the
puddles to the point where it was over my --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Bumper.
MS. REICHARD: Yeah, pretty much so. So I was able to
make it through.
So my big concern is with emergency people getting back to me.
If I, as a senior, would have a problem -- health problem, I don't
know that an ambulance can get back, and fire vehicles as well.
So my concern is, of course, the taxes going up and it being
maintained on a regular basis.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, ma'am.
MS. REICHARD: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Nancy.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is William White. He will
be followed by Tom Brooks.
MR. WHITE: Good morning, Commissioners. You all have
received an email from me with a copy of what I'm about to read into
the record for you.
My name is William White. I'm from Della Drive. And this is
March 28, 2023
Page 29
in response to the proposal to add unpaved roads to the MSTU.
Let me give you a little history of Della Drive. The Naples
Farm Sites was created on January 2nd, 1956, from 16 acres of
farmland in the unincorporated area of Collier County west of 23rd
Street Southwest and south of the main Golden Gate Canal.
The farm was subdivided into many half and one-acre lots
consisting of several streets, one of which is the one-mile-long Della
Drive. Each of the lot owners in the Naples Farm Site Subdivision
owns the roadway to the center of the road with an access easement
over, along, and across 30 feet of the edge of their property.
The Della Drive portion of the subdivision consists of three
blocks of land divided into 86 lots. The Naples Farm Site
Subdivision was never committed to a homeowners association or
any other typical common interest ownership community. The result
is the 86 homeowners are individually responsible to maintain the
roadway in front of their property. This would not have been
allowed today. The maintenance of the road would be the
responsibility of the county and maintained by the unincorporated
general MSTU or made the responsibility of a homeowner or
condominium association with responsibility and authority to open a
bank account, collect association fees, and maintain the common
property and easements as directed by the articles of incorporation.
Looking back to 1956 when Naples Farm Sites was created
through an approved subdivision, the subdividers and County
Commissioners did not know anything about homeowners
associations, nor did they consider how this road would be
maintained. Keeping in mind that the lots on Della Drive was, in
1956, the eastern wilderness of Collier County made up of lime rock
and sandy roads with little or no residents aside from some hunting
lodges.
The prevailing opinion in 1956, when the population of Collier
March 28, 2023
Page 30
County was a total of 15,753 people, was probably that no one would
want to live there.
It is time for the County Commissioners to right the wrong that
was unknowingly created in 1956. Since creating a homeowners
association would be impossible, now having all the lots under
private ownership and the developer has long since died, the area of
the easement, Della Drive, could be commandeered under the
easement -- commandeered under eminent domain statutes and the
road improved and made a part of the current unincorporated
roadway system, maintained and paid for through the collection of ad
valorem taxes in the current unincorp [sic] general MSTU.
I believe this project, and others like it, could qualify for funding
under the Biden Administration's infrastructure bill which identifies
infrastructure to designate the buildings and repairing of -- building
and repairing of roads, bridges, railways, and ports, as has been -- and
has been expanded by President Biden to include human and social
infrastructure.
If funding for the infrastructure bill is not available, then the
collection of ad valorem taxes from the addition of these parcels in
the unincorporated portions that would now be taxed would offset the
expense and the maintenance of these roadways. Once
completed -- and the lots along these roadways would become
eligible for better mortgage funding and the potential for the
construction of workforce housing in the rural parts of Collier County
where lots are available of a half acres and slightly more --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, if you could wrap up a little
bit.
MR. WHITE: -- making it available. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Tom Brooks. He'll be
followed by Aristeo Alviar.
March 28, 2023
Page 31
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir?
MR. BROOKS: Hello there. My name's Tom Brooks.
Quick question: I live in Six L Farms. And the roads kind of
cross property lines. If you guys take the roads over, does that
require a lot line adjustment on my property?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So public comment is you just tell
us your position on this particular topic. It's not a debate back and
forth. And we'll talk about -- you'll hear some of that, but tell us
your thoughts -- unless, Commissioner McDaniel, you want to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you've got questions, you
can call me. I'll share with you what it is. I mean -- and just as a
point of clarification -- good morning, young man.
As a point of clarification, there is no intent of condemnation or
takeover with regard to this. This is -- the proposition here is to
improve these roads so that they are traversable by an ambulance.
And we're not taking -- Bill White, Mr. White, how do you do? The
condemnation process is very expensive, arduous. The drainage,
culverts, curb, all kinds of things come into play when the
government takes over a road system. If everybody that accesses
their property off of a private road pays a little bit into the kitty over
a, relatively speaking, brief period of time, we'll elevate all these
roads to be traversable by an ambulance. At which point, who else
gets to go? Fire truck, Sheriff, so ons and so forth. Trash collection
and so on and so forth. So that's the short answer to --
MR. BROOKS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- the condemnation process.
MR. BROOKS: Now, I was just -- you know, when anything
like this happens, you always see -- I think it's a great idea, because a
lot of people can't afford -- I mean, I have a tractor and a York rake
and help maintain. But, still, a lot of people will go opt for the
cheapest dirt they can get to put in the road, which is usually sand,
March 28, 2023
Page 32
which usually doesn't last more than a month. So I think you guys
taking over would be a great idea.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the hope.
MR. BROOKS: But we'll see.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
MR. BROOKS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Aristeo Alviar. He'll be
followed online by Jayme Scott.
MR. ALVIAR: Hi. Good morning. My name's Aristeo
Alviar. I'm a resident of Collier County in Immokalee, Florida.
McDaniel, thank you so much for, first of all, listening to us out
in Immokalee and then inviting us to come out here and bringing this
out to the Board. So thank you for that.
I live down -- in Immokalee down Little League Road. I share
the same concerns as others. And I, for one, am in favor of this.
I know when a lot of these private roads and homes were bought
on these properties, obviously, it had to be for a price; it's what they
could afford at the time.
I have had the unfortunate luck of living down three or probably
the only private roads in Immokalee: Christian Terrace, North 29th
Street, and Little League Road.
Now, my entire life I've had to deal with this. Not only is it for
emergency vehicles like the ambulance, police, things of that nature,
but it's also for school. My neighbor next to me, who happens to be
my wife's aunt, worked for the school system for 40 years. She
worked with disabled children. And there was at one point to where
the disabled school bus could not even get down the road to pick up
those disabled children to take them to school.
We've had Collier County students that have had to walk right
after -- within a couple weeks of a hurricane down a flooded road
March 28, 2023
Page 33
really, really bad just to try to get to a school bus stop because the bus
cannot make it down there.
About seven years ago, my mother-in-law herself broke her hip,
unfortunately, in our home. The ambulance could not make it down
our road. So we actually had to get the fire truck to bring in the big
one with the wheels to get her out. So for us it's something that it's
not only for emergency services but for also the students as well.
As recent as Hurricane Ian, my neighbors and a few other folks
who have elderly folks that live with them that were caretakers for,
had to vacate them from our road and take them into Naples, into
Bonita Springs and other areas, just for the fear that somebody could
not get to them in the event of an emergency.
So I, for one, am very much in favor. My parents live down
29th Street. We own property down Christian Terrace as well. It
would be very beneficial to not only the property owners but to
anyone trying to get out there.
Now, we've done our best to try to maintain it on our own.
We've spent out of our pocket. We've continuously tried to bring in
dirt, things of that nature. But it does not help that in other areas,
especially down where I live down Little League Road, folks take it
upon themselves to go down on four-wheelers and dirt bikes and
4-by-4 vehicles doing doughnuts and tearing up the road that we
literally just tried to fill in and smooth out.
And we're not asking for it to be paved, although it would be
nice, but just with a little bit of help of the maintenance. We've tried
to reach out to Collier Sheriffs to keep the folks out there [sic]. My
wife was nearly run over by an SUV trying to jump the potholes to
where they lost their bumper, front fender, and nearly ran over my
dog. We filed police reports. All this stuff is on record.
And we're just looking for a little bit of help with this to try to
maintain it, even if it's just something along the natures of re-digging
March 28, 2023
Page 34
some canals for some drainage, things of that nature. Again, not
asking for 100 percent of the help -- we know it is very costly -- but
for any assistance that the county could provide down any of these
roads. I, for one -- and I know the majority of my neighbors, we
went out to an MSTU meeting in Immokalee where we all spoke out
quite vocally about trying to get this done.
So we really much are looking forward to getting some
information on this, timelines, things of that nature, and we'll be
listening with attentive ears.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is your boss paying you to be
here today?
MR. ALVIAR: Absolutely not.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your next two speakers are both
joining us on Zoom. First up, Jayme Scott, and then she will be
followed by Melanie Penner.
Ms. Scott, you should be prompted to unmute yourself at this
time, if you will do so. And you're unmuted. You have three
minutes, Ms. Scott.
MS. JAYME SCOTT: Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am.
MS. JAYME SCOTT: Okay. I just wanted to ask -- I know
that you talked about the homeowners that -- we live on a paved road,
but we paved it ourselves, and all the homeowners maintain it.
Would we be excluded from this?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MS. JAYME SCOTT: We would?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MS. JAYME SCOTT: Okay, perfect. I think that's really all I
have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MS. JAYME SCOTT: Thank you.
March 28, 2023
Page 35
MR. MILLER: All right, then. Your next speaker will be
Melanie Penner.
Ms. Penner, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll
do so at this time. I see you're unmuted. Ms. Penner, you have
three minutes.
MS. PENNER: Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am.
MS. PENNER: Excellent. My name's Melanie Penner, and I
live off of Sugarberry Street. That is a dirt road that is privately
maintained.
I have three main concerns with this ordinance. My first
concern is the wording does say it will be taxing properties that are
abutting or adjacent to unpaved roads. I just want to point out that a
lot of the properties in my section of land are not abutting or adjacent.
They're, like, what you would think of as landlocked.
So, for instance, I have neighbors that have five acres that is
abutting or adjacent to a dirt road, but then their back side is not
touching a road at all. Would they be taxed on half of their property
and not the other five acres?
So I think a map of -- like, a preliminary -- putting out a
preliminary map of what properties would be taxed and what would
not. I think it would be important, to be fair, to tax all of the
properties in that section, not just ones that have road frontage,
because the properties that do not have road frontage still use those
roads to access. So that's my first concern.
My second concern is I do live in a section that we privately
maintain. Our roads are quite good. We have -- you know, fire and
ambulance have no issue. Guests to our home have no issue using
our roads.
I'm concerned that I would be paying into a pool of tax money
that would then go to the highest need, which would not be my
March 28, 2023
Page 36
section. Like, I can guarantee you that my section would be almost
last on the list in terms of need for improvement. And so that
concerns me that I would be just paying into a pool and never see any
benefit of this.
Lastly, I know there is an opt-out clause, and I do appreciate
that. My biggest concern would be to make that opt-out option
simple. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to opt out of this
when our roads are privately maintained and in good shape. So I
just don't want to have to do a ton of work to prove to the county that
we are in good shape and that we shouldn't be taxed. So those are
my three main points. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mel.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, that concludes our speakers on this
item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I'd like to -- because I
have a question with regard to the opt-out and how we're going to
manage that. I mean, I've thought of several. I mean, Ms. Penner's
husband's a general contractor and owns a grader and excavating
company, so they keep their road in decent shape. And some of my
neighbors have -- including me, have my own motor grader and keep
my road in decent shape.
But the opt-out provision -- now -- and, again, you know, this is
new, and I want to -- I want to caution everybody that this -- you
know, the County Attorney's already espoused that this has never
been done in the state of Florida before and, that, you know, the
semantics of this may be a little bit difficult. But in my thought
process, I would like to hear from staff what their thoughts are with
regard to the opt-out provision and keeping it simple, as Ms. Penner
actually expressed.
MS. SCOTT: Once again, for the record, Trinity Scott,
March 28, 2023
Page 37
department head, Transportation Management Services.
Certainly, we'd like to keep it as simple as possible. As I stated
before, we have not developed policies and procedures for that. If
the Board so desires to adopt this today, certainly direction back to
staff that we can bring something back to you, you know, a
thought-out plan. Certainly, it needs to be reviewed by the
committee members to make sure that, indeed, the roadway is
passible.
And in the ordinance it states that it is not likely to require
maintenance within the next five fiscal years and also a sustainable
maintenance plan. So something that, you know, the
neighborhoods -- the neighbors have come together, signed off on
that, yes, they grade it quarterly or annually, whatever has worked for
them in the past, and the roadway is passible that is, in theory, what
I'm thinking. But as I said, the devil's in the details. We have not
delineated out the procedures for this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. Well, here's my
proposition. And, again, there's no point in staff giving an enormous
amount of attention to this until -- until this passes or not, as the case
may be. And if it doesn't -- my proposition is to do this for a year, to
set the millage rate to be a maximum of one mill but levy it at a half a
mill the first year and develop these policies with regard to the
opt-out provision, ensure that -- and make sure that we're working
with the Clerk from an accountability standpoint so that we've got
documentation as to what we're spending and how we're spending it
and where, in fact, it's going and make sure that the Clerk is satisfied
with the accountability aspect of this, and then manage it accordingly.
If there is -- if there is a hole in the doughnut that we haven't seen,
then we'll endeavor to take care of that hole and address it
accordingly.
Did you have something to say, County Manager? You're
March 28, 2023
Page 38
looking like you're leaning in.
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So that's my
proposition. I want to assure folks that there is no intent for
condemnation with this. This is just a -- this is -- as you heard at the
beginning, there's in excess of 2,200 residences that are impacted by
access by these private roads.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes. Commissioner Saunders, the
floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. Just a couple
questions for the County Attorney.
If we adopt this type of a program and begin to maintain some
of these roads, I guess one question would be, does that result in us
having liability on these roads if there's some injury? Would we be
required to, since we would, in effect, be maintaining the road, bring
it up to any particular standard to avoid liability? So that's one
question. Then I have a couple other comments.
MR. KLATZKOW: The standard is to make the road passible
for emergency vehicles. We're not paving roads. We're not doing
any more than ensuring that the public health, safety, and welfare
could be achieved by making them, really, minimum-condition roads.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So there would be no
expectation that we would have to maintain them at a higher level
than what you just said?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, sir. It's just to get the emergency
vehicles down there.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And then I guess just a
thought. It seems like the folks that are maintaining their roads,
obviously they're going to want to opt out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
March 28, 2023
Page 39
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And so would this, in effect,
kind of encourage homeowners to stop maintaining their roads
because they know that there's an MSTU that's going to be there to
pick up the slack if they stop doing that? I guess that's a question for
Commissioner McDaniel. Just your thought on, are we making a
situation that's arguably bad at this point, are we making it worse by
increasing people's expectations on what the county's going to do?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I would certainly hope not,
Commissioner Saunders. You know, the rationale here is if
everybody pays a little bit and helps tote the wagon, then it's not such
an arduous task for the few, like Mrs. Penner and her husband that
maintain their own roads or myself that do it. If all of the neighbors
contribute a little bit, that's the rationale here.
We heard from our friend in Immokalee. I don't know where
he went. He probably had to go back to -- oh, I know your boss
wants you to get back to work. But the -- this circumstance has been
prevalent forever. I mean, Commissioner Coletta who sat in this seat
anointed me as the Chairman of the Corkscrew Island Neighborhood
Association in 2000. That was 22 years ago. And that was on the
premise of the rationale and the requisite of an MSTU individually
being imposed upon those streets as we go. Never was
accomplishable. The circumstance is still prevalent here 22 years
later.
The proposition that I've brought forward is to try something
different than what we've been doing forever and see if we can
improve the lives of the entire community by having everybody pay a
little bit, and that's my rationale by setting it up as -- you've got to
have a cap -- capped at 1 mill and starting the first year at a half a
mill. We'll collect approximately 187,000. We'll have the
committee -- and our staff's already reviewed the majority of these
roads.
March 28, 2023
Page 40
So we'll have our staff delineate the worst first and go through
that process and account for what we've actually spent, and then over,
hopefully, a relatively brief period of time all these roads will be
traversable by an ambulance, and that's the box to stay in, and once
that occurs, everybody can traverse them.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. And just one
other comment, then, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner McDaniel made
a comment that we can adopt this for a year, and then during that year
we could develop these procedures for opting out. I think that's the
old proverbial putting the cart before the horse. I think you have to
have those procedures laid out before we adopt this.
Now, I don't know how long it would take to develop that, but
we're going to have a lot of people with a lot of expectations that
aren't going to be met if we adopt a taxing district like this and then
during the process over the next year try to develop what the opt-out
procedures are going to be.
I would recommend that we develop those first and then move
forward with it. I could support it at that point if I know what those
opt-out provisions are, but I can't support it right now, because I think
it leaves too many things unanswered.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was going to just make a
comment, and then I'll go to Commissioner Kowal, and then,
Commissioner Hall, you're on deck.
You know, my biggest concern/priority is cohesion and the
roads being complementary. And so as the one speaker said, back in
the '50s maybe this wasn't a problem and, you know, it didn't surface.
And it's not just out in Immokalee. We all have private roads.
Maybe not to this extent, but I know I've got several, and these
conversations are bubbling up.
And then you have folks that either have maintained their little
piece -- and so, like, the one caller said, I don't want to be, you know,
March 28, 2023
Page 41
overly taxed. But, you know, part of making sure that all the roads
are cohesive and all the roads that are connected -- you know, you
maintain something in front of your house, but if the ambulance has
to drive through three feet of mud to get to your beautiful road that's
in front of your house, then I'm not sure that solves anything.
So the opt-out really concerned me because you can have too
many people that said, well, I didn't buy sand. I bought really good
dirt. And, you know, we have a perfect setup in front of our house,
and we have a garage full of four-wheelers, but that doesn't really,
you know, solve the problem of making sure all of the interconnected
roads are cohesive and of similar quality for safety and for first
responders.
So I guess I need to hear a little bit more of the fine print, and I
know that, you know, Commissioner McDaniel's going to fill in the
missing pieces.
But let me go to Commissioner Kowal and then, Commissioner
Hall, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
You know, I hate to repeat this, but I kind of agree with
Commissioner Saunders. You know, I remember there was a
famous Speaker of the House that said, let's pass the bill, and then
we'll figure out what's in it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't even compare me to
her.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm not comparing you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't even -- don't even
compare. And now I'm --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We'll call for a 15-minute recess.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't even start.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But, you know, we did continue
this from February 28th because we kind of had the same questions
March 28, 2023
Page 42
then, and now it's before us again, and I have the same questions
now. And even listening to staff, I don't have much more clarity.
And, you know, even -- now I just heard the attorney, that I
guess we do have a liability because he says we have to maintain it to
the point where an ambulance can pass it. We go and fix the road,
six months later a sinkhole, which probably is the reason for having a
hole there anyways, is people keep putting dirt in over years and
years and years, and now the ambulance can't go down it. Who's
responsible? Is the county responsible now because the ambulance
couldn't get down a road that we just fixed six months ago? Do we
have a liability then?
MR. KLATZKOW: Anytime you take an action, you have a
potential liability, but the issue here is public safety. And I don't
really compare public safety and liability, personally. I mean, to me
public safety is paramount.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, I understand. I was in the
public safety business for a long time. And, you know -- and listen,
people sustain life on these roads. I don't know how they go to the
grocery store. I don't know how they go shopping. They must be
able to travel these roads. So coming from that background, I know
if there's an emergency at the end of this road, it's not going to keep
us from getting down to the end of the road, especially if they can
traverse these roads on a daily basis, unless they're landlocked to the
point where they never leave their homes.
You know, I just need more clarity myself. I just don't
think -- you know, I know it's important. I know it's important for
Commissioner McDaniel. And that being said, it's important. So I
think we need more information before I move forward. I'd just feel
more comfortable.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I can definitely see the need. At
March 28, 2023
Page 43
the same time, it's a private road. So I can see two ditches on both
sides. One ditch being if you don't maintain your road, you don't get
any services, and that's got to be fine with you because that's your
choice. It's a private road.
Then the other option would be, if the county fixes it after the
fact, like we've mentioned, it's very expensive, and then everybody
would have to pay for it.
The third way is you have opt-outs. You know, you can opt
out. Well, what if I'm at the end of the road and all of my neighbors
in front of me, they don't opt out. They want the road maintained.
Well, the road's going to be maintained, so I can opt out. So there's
those questions.
And then the other thing is you just tax everybody, and
everybody pays it, and everybody gets fixed. But, then again, if it's
that way, like Ms. Penner said, you know, how do I know that my
taxes are going to come towards me? So I do have questions.
I don't know if we need to make a decision today. I think that
there's -- I think there's validity in the discussion. Maybe to come up
with a rating system of the roads, a proportionate of -- you've got all
this money coming in. I say "all this money." It's a little bit of
money, but the money that comes in, maybe a rating system on
determining which roads are the worst and maybe putting that money
out based on how bad the road is in a percentage basis so that other
people don't fund -- don't have all the burden for fixing roads that
they're just barely going to use.
What is the actual expense that we think we're looking at versus
the money that we think that we're going to collect? That's -- those
are questions that I wouldn't want to put this in motion for a year,
then try to figure it out without knowing that up front. We have an
idea. We have ways to look at the roads to determine which roads
are bad. You can do it by drone.
March 28, 2023
Page 44
And then we get an idea of the money that we need to spend
versus the money that people -- you know, we have an idea of who
would opt out: People on paved roads, people that are maintaining
their roads. Those are just questions that I have. So I would like to
see some of that answered before we actually just get in and dive in
and make a decision on the MSTU.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sometimes when people say, I
maintain the road to a much higher quality, but they also have, you
know, four-wheel-drive vehicles in the garage, that's not the same as
an ambulance coming down the road. I mean, if an ambulance
responds to a house in a semi, you know, maintained road and they
put a heart attack victim in the back, I mean, EMS will tell you, you
know, they hate speed humps because they're trying to get to the
hospital at -- in record time. They hate, you know, driving through,
you know, dirt roads or unfinished roads or whatnot.
So there's a difference between traversing the road to go back
and forth to Publix or first responders. Like you said, Commissioner
Kowal, they'll get there, but I'm not sure I would want my grandma in
the back of an ambulance hooked up to two IV bottles trying to get to
NCH or Physicians Regional driving down a road at 25 miles an hour
because it's full of sinkholes or potholes or it's inconsistent. You
know, they pass a house that's using the good dirt and then they hit a
stretch of houses that opted out, you know, that sort of thing. So
that's why I kind of bring it back to consistency.
So I need the blanks filled in for me, for sure, and that's why I
defer now, again, to Commissioner McDaniel, who's heard our
comments.
And, sir, the floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have, and I share the
concerns. And I'm going to make a proposition that we approve this
item subject to the opt-out policy, and that's my -- I'm not -- I've lived
March 28, 2023
Page 45
here for 42 years. I used to be in the road construction business. I
have an idea as to what these things should cost. I've seen what the
county has spent in these emergency repairs.
I'm not -- the goal here is to start the process. I would like to
solidify the opt-out provision very similar to what Commissioner
Saunders brought up. We have to -- we can't have one guy over on
Della say I don't [sic] want to be in and the rest of the people not be
in. And that's going to ultimately -- and if you heard, there will be a
committee of non -- you know, EMS being first, because that's the
premise of this is traversability by ambulance, fire, and Sheriff, being
the committee to make the decision on the worst-first process.
And I'm totally okay with tightening up -- staff's not going to put
a lot of thought into generation of the policies and procedures behind
the scenes if we don't have an ordinance, if we don't have something
for them to actually act on. That was one of the comments that I got
out of them -- what do you need, Michelle? You keep pointing at
me.
MS. ARNOLD: Just for procedural purposes, with an MSTU,
there are timelines that are associated with establishing the MSTU,
and so there is time to develop the criteria before the MSTU --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
MS. ARNOLD: -- has to be established, because you've got a
December 31st time frame to make it effective October 1 of '24.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm well aware of that, yes,
ma'am. Thank you.
I'm -- my thought process is, if you're okay, let's approve this
subject to the staff's rendition with regard to the policy for the opt-out
to allow for clarity there so that we have a process in place and then
make a final determination as to whether we approve or not based
upon that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
March 28, 2023
Page 46
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just because I don't know, is there
a way to raise the millage on the really bad roads and lower the
millage on the decent roads, or is there a way, if you tax everybody,
to set aside, like, in a fund or a savings account for the people that
maintain their roads that don't have very bad at all? I'm trying to
figure out a way to make it fair for -- if everybody pays in, to make it
fair for the services that they're going to get.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And to answer that question
very specifically, that's -- the opt-out provision will allow for that.
People -- like the lady that called in that lives on a paved road. I
have friends that have paved their own road.
One of the seven-mile swaths of private road, Collier -- well,
Procacci's -- Gargiulo's owned both sides of it. So they don't need to
be -- they can opt out. And that's the provision for it to be fair.
Once we have specificity with regard to the opt-out provision, I
think the equitable side of this will come to fruition. Everybody
pays a little bit, and that's the reason that I proposed that we cap it or
set it at a half a mill the first year, do a determination based upon our
costs, so on and so forths, to do that.
So I'll make a motion that we move this forward. I don't know
if we approve it subject to the opt-out provision. Is that a -- is that a
proper way to do that?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't personally love that,
but -- Commissioner Saunders, I just want to defer to you just in case
we're missing any comments you have. Do you have anything to
add or --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think we have plenty of
time to get this done thoroughly as opposed to adopting this today
and then coming back at some point with some opt-out provisions.
I'd rather see the whole package. I think that's really the best way to
do it.
March 28, 2023
Page 47
So I would urge Commissioner McDaniel to get with staff.
Staff will put together anything we ask them to put together. They
don't have to have an ordinance that's approved in order to go back
and work on an opt-out provision. If we say to them, we like this
proposal, but we want all of the details put into it so we can -- we
know what we're voting on, you'll get that product. So I would
suggest continuing this for a few months while those issues are
worked out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: My concern with some of
the -- and we don't have the language, but if there was looser
language or if it was convenient to opt out, I mean, like every
taxpayer in this room, we all pay taxes, and your tax money goes to
things you don't use. You know, beach restoration, maybe you never
go to the beach, you know. It might go to improve a road that you
never drive down. So I don't know that we have that sort of luxury.
So to me, if you live in that community and we're deciding
collectively that roads that lead to your house or around your house
or even if you use the good dirt, I don't see that as -- I just think that's
a bad -- and, granted, this is a little different of a topic. But when
people pay taxes, it's to, you know, improve things around them. If
they've been more proactive to buy the good dirt and they have the
good tractors that can maintain, you know, the area in front of their
house, then great, and they've chosen to do that. But to me if we
make a decision, it should be something that's, you know, more
cohesive, more complementary across the board. And some people
are going to pay, and they may not get the full advantage of their tax
money being utilized right in front of their home, but we pay stuff
every day that you may or may not see, but it's for the greater good.
That's how taxation works.
I'm not a big fan of overtaxation by any stretch, but I'm a
fair -- I'm a fan of, you know, more fairness. And some might say,
March 28, 2023
Page 48
well, the opt-out is the thing that makes it more fair, but I think we're
sort of splitting hairs on, you know, did this one house use the good
dirt, and they're the bottom of the list, so maybe they shouldn't pay as
much, and that's where I agree with Commissioner Saunders, I'd like
to see it sort of fleshed out. And I'd rather approve the whole
enchilada than sort of approve it and see the details. I probably
could be talked out of that if there's pieces I'm missing. But I kind of
like it the way of just, you know, bring me the whole thing.
And I'll defer to -- Commissioner Kowal's been lit up, and then
Commissioner McDaniel, sir, I'll, you know, have you chime in. So,
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just want to make it clear, I was not comparing you to
anybody. I was comparing -- I didn't want to be looked as that if I
vote on it today. That's what I was just trying to say.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Security, security.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I do have a point, and it goes
to, if we do move today, Commissioner McDaniel, and the staff does
come back with some sort of opt-out program, I mean, is that
something we're going to have to rediscuss to implement, or is it just
going to automatically, whatever they come back with, is going to be
implemented into this?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The premise of my
motion -- and I'll withdraw the motion because we don't have a
second on it anyway. And I'm going to make another motion to
continue this item, tighten up what Commissioner Hall's brought out
to get some estimates and formulation of what the actual costs are,
get some estimates onto how many we can do, worst first, so on and
so forth. Actually have a policy developed for the opt-out provision
so that there is an equitable portion of this and so that it's fair.
The goal here is for it to be fair. We have the circumstance
March 28, 2023
Page 49
that's been going on in our community for a millennia, and this is an
avenue for us to traverse to get there. And I'm totally fine. Really
appreciate the conversation. For those of you who don't know, we're
barely allowed to be friends when we're not up here and Terri's not --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm not your friend.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- he isn't, but Terri's writing
down all my misspoken words and that TV is on, we're barely
allowed to say hello to one other and not be in violation of the
Sunshine Law. So we can't get -- we can't go in the back chambers
and huddle up and decide how to get through some of these things.
So I really appreciate the discussion. I'll make a motion for
continuing this item, and when I get it tightened up, I'll bring it back.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously. We'll look
for it to come back with more detail. Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One step at a time.
QUESTIONING ATTORNEY: Chair, we're at our 10:00
time-certain, but we're also close to our court reporter break, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Let's take a little -- the
break's a little bit earlier, but then we can at least hear everything
cohesively. So we'll come back here at 10:30.
(A brief recess was had from 10:18 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If everybody could take their seats,
March 28, 2023
Page 50
we can get started on time. Thank you. Please ensure your phones
are on silent, and we'll move forward with our time-certain 10:00.
Okay, County Manager.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: At 10:30.
Item #10A
DIRECTING THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ADVERTISE AND
BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AN ORDINANCE
ESTABLISHING THE COLLIER COUNTY HEALTH FREEDOM
BILL OF RIGHTS, AND TO ADOPT THE COLLIER COUNTY
HEALTH FREEDOM RESOLUTION - MOTION TO ADVERTISE
ORDINANCE AND BRING BACK TO A FUTURE BCC
MEETING BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - APPROVED; MOTION TO
CONTINUE RESOLUTION TO A FUTURE BCC MEETING BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, your time-certain at 10:00,
this is Item 10A, a recommendation to direct the County Attorney to
advertise and bring back for a public hearing an ordinance
establishing the Collier County Health Freedom Bill of Rights and to
adopt the Collier County Health Freedom Resolution. This item is
supported by Commissioner Hall.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to make a little editorial
before we start, a little something different.
Citizen input is so important in meetings like this, and we're
about to get citizen input on both sides, okay. We also get hundreds
of emails from citizens and have in the last 24 hours. So just, as a
citizen myself, back to the citizens in this room, people who might be
March 28, 2023
Page 51
watching or somebody that's going to take what I say and cut and
paste it and put it somewhere to just maybe get out some more
information, 500 emails all saying vote no, period, not signed by
anybody, it's from tiger167@gmail.com, is highly respected and
welcomed by me, but it doesn't add to the discussion.
So if you're really for what we're about to talk about or you're
really for the road -- you see how people came up here and
eloquently spoke about the plus side and the minus side. Interaction
with your elected officials, knowledge, facts, details about why you
feel a certain way -- even if -- I'll just speak for me. If I adamantly
disagree or I'm totally uncertain, and that's why we're coming
here -- I can just speak for me, but I welcome an email that at least
has a few sentences as to why you're telling me to vote no.
The way local government works isn't a football game. It's not
a scorecard. I don't sit here and say, wow, I got 500 emails for.
They were all cut and pasted in the same font by somebody who set
up an automated Facebook page, and I got 80 emails against, so I
definitely should vote for or else somebody's going to put a bomb
under my car. That's not really how it works.
And so I can tell you, there's people in this room on both sides
that I have great respect for because, over the last couple of weeks,
regardless of what this outcome is -- and I have no idea because I'm
waiting to hear -- have spent so much quality time with us, and even
on previous issues.
So, you know, what I tell citizens is, you know, thanks for
sending me your cut-and-paste one-liner that just says, vote no, I pay
your salary -- but that's not how local government works, or that's not
how it should work. That's not the most efficient way.
So if you're going to come to the podium, you know, I really
appreciate that you're here. To citizens that sent us 500 emails and
all said, you know, vote no or vote yes but I can't be there, you don't
March 28, 2023
Page 52
have to be here. All -- I replied to every single email, and what I
said was, I just hope somebody that represents your position is here,
because the reality is, this is kind of a court case, and we're hearing
from both sides. So if one side has 100 people that took the time to
come here and they're going to give us slides and facts and details
and subject-matter experts, it does behoove you that if this is such an
issue you are passionate about and you filled my email box with 500
cut-and-paste emails, find three people who are retired who can be
here for an hour or two so that your side is properly represented.
I mean, some of the emails we all got said, well, I can't be here,
so I know my voice isn't heard. No, your voice is heard, but get
organized in a collective group because this is the final stop. All the
discussion for the last two weeks or month, regardless of what the
topic -- if it was the paved road or whatever it is, this is the Super
Bowl. This is the finals. We're about to vote on something.
And so, you know, it behooves you to do the best you can to
send us a cohesive -- right, Commissioner McDaniel? -- eloquent
email that tries to explain to me why you feel a certain way -- and so
this is just me talking -- and it also behooves you to try to come to the
final stop here with somebody. And as you see, you can call in,
right? You can call in, and we can hear from you or the group that
represents your organization.
So this is a very important piece. So this isn't us just putting
our fingers in the wind, and we've already predetermined a vote, and
this is just all smoke and mirrors. Public comment is the most
important piece, but how you do it really determines the value of the
comment.
I've gotten emails from one person that felt like it was 100
emails because it was so well thought out. You know, it wasn't
overly verbose, but it was really hard hitting, and it really caused me
to think. And not just -- not on this issue. Lots of issues.
March 28, 2023
Page 53
And then I've gotten other ones that just said, topic: Vote no.
Vote no. Everybody wants you to vote no. Nobody thinks this is a
smart thing. And I'm talking generically now. That's your right and
I respect it, and I reply to every single one of those emails, and I
think my colleagues do as well, you know, when we can. But the
reality is, you know, citizen input comes in many forms. This is a
very important piece, because it's right before the vote.
So if somebody sends me an email and says, everybody feels
this way on this issue, and then nobody's here to represent that group,
I mean, I'm not saying we make a knee-jerk decision and say, well,
they didn't have anybody here, so it must not be important. But, you
know, if you're telling me personally in an email that -- or you send
me 500 cut-and-paste emails, wow, two people couldn't come and
sort of summarize your large group's passionate, you know, piece?
So, you know, I just checked at the break, and just -- whether
you guys know it or not, we have, you know, like, 300 emails saying
no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no yes. No text, no comments, no
sentences. And, you know, it takes away, sometimes, when you
have an email buried within your in-box from somebody that really
needs help with affordable housing, or they need help with a building
permit from the hurricane or -- and, you know, it's buried under 400
emails that are all just cut and paste off of Facebook or social media.
So, you know, that's just my editorial. I appreciate the people
that are here. I appreciate the people that have sent us emails,
whether it was verbose or detailed or long or not, but there's very
valuable ways to do it to help us make a smart decision. And so I
appreciate those that have taken the time to do it. And, you know,
we're going to see local government at work right now.
Having said that, let's see, what do we want to do? Do we want
to go to public comment first, or do you want to hear --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go to Commissioner Hall
March 28, 2023
Page 54
that brought this forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, okay. Well, I didn't see him
lit up but, like you said, he sponsored the thing.
Commissioner Hall, the floor is yours, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chairman.
So I brought this up because this is a highly emotional topic.
Everybody on both sides is super passionate. And when I ran for
this job, I campaigned on this job specifically -- when people said,
why would you want to do this? I said I wanted to do this because I
didn't want to be told what I should do and what I shouldn't do.
And I emailed the current commissioner, and I said, if you vote
a certain way, I'm going to run against you. I didn't have to run
against him. He went ahead and went his other ways. But that was
the main and sole purpose why I ran for this job. Because I've never
done government. Never in a million years did -- I ever thought I
would be here. But I ran because I understand the role of an elected
official is to protect and to secure the liberties of the constituents, of
the people.
And what I experienced through COVID -- you know, COVID
was an unprecedented time. And I'm not trying to dig up COVID
and dig up all the wounds, but it was a time that we went through,
and we ought to be able to learn from the mistakes that we made.
It was things that we did not know. And so decisions were
made and actions were taken that benefited some and didn't benefit
others. And what I would like to make sure here in Collier County is
that everyone has the right to choose their health freedom, their
health choices based on what's good for them.
I don't want to take away anything from anybody. I want you
to be able to listen to your doctor, do what your doctor says. I want
to be able to listen to my doctor and do what my doctor says. And I
don't want to be -- I'm not going to judge you for one, and I don't
March 28, 2023
Page 55
want to be judged for mine. It wasn't that way.
And so hindsight being 20/20, I want to learn from the mistakes
that I feel like was made from government, from authorities. And I
want to make sure that that's -- those mistakes are never made right
here in Collier County.
So I don't want to -- you know, I'm not saying that you can't
believe in science, and I'm not saying that you have to reject science.
I'm not saying anything with this ordinance.
This ordinance is basically taking the state statutes that our great
Governor Ron DeSantis created a free state, and I want to make those
and reiterate those ordinances here in Collier County. That's what
the Health Bill of Rights Freedom Ordinance is about.
The resolution is a resolve. It's a posture that I would like to
see us adopt for anything that comes in the future if we see something
coming in the future that violates our constitutional rights that are
given to us by God almighty. The Constitution doesn't give us our
rights. The Florida State Constitution doesn't give us our rights.
Our rights are inalienable by God himself, and if that harelips you,
I'm sorry.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: I've gotten emails that said,
document to me, you know, that God gave us rights. Document to
me that there's even a God himself.
And, you know, we live in America, and America was founded
on Godly principles, and I would like to see those continued here.
I'm not ashamed to say it. I'll say it boldly. And that's the stance
that I'm taking.
So, you know, the things that stuck in my craw, and the reason I
want to bring this forward -- and I'm going to be brief. But it was
like, Dot, we thank you for your business. Your business has been
amazing here in Collier County. For years you've been a great
March 28, 2023
Page 56
service to this country -- to this county, but, you know, through this
COVID thing, we're going to ask you to close your business because
we deem you nonessential. You know, you're not that important.
Well, that's her livelihood. That's not right. That's a violation
of liberty that's been -- that was mandated from authority.
You know, Scott, we appreciate your work, sir, you know, being
with our company. You've been with us for 30 years. You've been
a stellar employee. Man, you've added to our bottom line, and
you've been a great value to us but, you know what, unless you get
this vaccine, we're going to have to let you go.
You know, unless that -- you know, and so, those -- those
liberties -- freedom's chaotic, people. Freedom says we ought to
have the freedom for everybody to have to do this or everybody to
have to do that to protect everybody. You're killing people if you
don't. That's freedom. But when your freedom infringes on the
freedoms of others, that's not -- that's a violation of my liberty.
Freedom is the responsible use to create liberty for all, and that's our
job as the government. That's why I'm bringing this ordinance forth.
I'm looking forward to the conversations. I'm looking forward
to hearing both sides. I read every email. And I was voted by
70.1 percent of the people in District 2, that was 27,501 votes. And
as I walked the doors and I knocked on doors and I told them why I
was running, I may have had 10 people say, well, I don't agree with
that.
So 180 emails that I got being in opposition is not the majority
of the people that I've talked to, so --
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: I want to -- I want to bring this up.
I want to have -- I want to listen to the public comment, and I want to
have great conversation with -- amongst my colleagues, and
hopefully we can do something positive for Collier County.
March 28, 2023
Page 57
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I just want to make one
very clear point. Today we are not voting on the ordinance. We are
voting on bringing the ordinance back at a future date.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good point.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Today we are voting on the
resolution, so -- and I'm totally in support of bringing the ordinance
forward once I've had an opportunity to review the ordinance that's
going to come forward.
I haven't personally spent any time on that. And I just want to
be very clear that we're talking today about two things, but we're
going to vote on bringing back the ordinance at a future date, and
we're going to vote on, or not, the resolution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Such a key point, and it
piggybacks on what I said about how many emails we got from
people saying, vote yes, vote no, yet I don't even know if they looked
at today's agenda.
And so I welcome the email. And I don't say that to disparage
their involvement, but I actually got a ton of emails that said, please
vote no on this because I don't want the government to tell me what
to do and infringe on my rights, and that's sort of a little backgrounds.
That's a person -- and I'm not saying I know all the answers here. I
look forward to this discussion. But, you know, when I read
something like that and we pull these all-nighters to read these 500
emails or, you know, hundreds of emails, I'm also looking for a
citizen to know a little bit about the topic and not just sort of cut and
paste something because they read something on the Internet.
And just like Commissioner McDaniel said, look at what we're
voting on today. We're trying to take a methodical approach. We
want to hear from both sides. We're not here to just do big knee
jerks or take scores on how many emails were for or against but they
March 28, 2023
Page 58
didn't really understand the topic.
I mean, you know, I got 100 emails that were written in the
exact same font, the exact same italics. I mean, so that's something
that's totally automated. Fine, great. But if you read the text, it was
somebody that obviously -- I had people that sent me a note and said,
where's the meeting? Okay. You know, we meet here every other
Tuesday. It's a county meeting. So, you know, if you're that
involved in your local politics or you want to be, you know, maybe
Google something before you just sort of shoot out an email.
But Commissioner McDaniel said it perfectly, please read what
we're actually discussing today, okay. Nobody's running out of here
and changing some big giant policy or doing a big knee jerk. But
this is the start of discussion about a topic, like Commissioner Hall
said, that's been on all of our front burners and something that we've
learned a lot of lessons on and, obviously -- and I'll conclude by
saying, some of the emails are, I'm so disappointed in all the county
commissioners allowing this to be on the agenda.
Citizens that might not understand how local government works,
do you know how our agenda is built? Not by our own particular
desires but citizens coming to us, any particular commissioner or the
County Manager, there's a lot of different avenues, and this is -- our
agenda is primarily built by citizen input and our input as well. But
it's not a matter of us saying, well, I know the citizens want to hear it,
and Commissioner Hall supported it but, you know what, I'm not
going to allow that. That's not how the United States of America
works.
So I've been deployed to some countries where it does work the
other way. But the way it works here is citizens build this agenda.
So if you're a citizen out there and you have a really hot topic that's
different and you want to see it discussed in here, it can be, and this is
the way it's done.
March 28, 2023
Page 59
So nobody's force feeding anything on here. It's citizens who
brought this to the -- to these podiums, citizens for -- on both sides.
And that's why we're hearing it and, obviously, they've spent a lot of
time with us.
Commissioner Hall, and then Commissioner McDaniel, and then
we're going to go to public comment.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to say something about the resolution. The
resolution, the way it's written, is what if. It's what if things change.
If they change like they -- like they were, we want to resolve to take a
certain posture. It's not -- we're not -- these whereas statements are
not just -- we're not saying they're facts. You know, some of them
are accusatory, some of them are assumptive, and some of them are
true. So we're not taking these whereas statements as the way they
are. We're saying if things change and things come at us like they
have the potential to come at us, we're resolving to take certain
actions. So just keep that in mind. We're not saying that this is the
way things are right now as fact. It's what if things change? What
if this situation turns in a negative manner?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And to Commissioner McDaniel's
point, this is what's -- this is what's in writing, okay. What are we
doing here today? Recommendation to direct the County Attorney
to advertise and bring back for a public hearing an ordinance
establishing the Collier County Health Freedom Bill of Rights and to
adopt the Collier County Health Freedom Resolution, sponsored by
Commissioner Hall, and it affects all districts. So he might be the
sponsor, but it's something that's district-wide. So, you know, if
somebody sent us an email but actually didn't read what we were
doing here today, you know, maybe that's just a little point of order.
Mr. Miller, how many public comments do we have?
MR. MILLER: This number's been a little fluid throughout the
March 28, 2023
Page 60
morning, but I'm going to say 30.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MILLER: It's right around there. Are we ready?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So my colleagues, do you want
to -- is public comment --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's rock on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- like, the best way to start?
Okay. Let's --
MR. MILLER: I'd like to remind the public to please queue up
at both podiums so we can move along. Your first speaker is John
Meo, Jr. He'll be followed by Ray Nord.
MR. MEO: Good morning, Commissioners. John Meo, Jr.
First one out of the box.
Hey, I'll take less than the three minutes. And I'm here,
basically -- I'm not an expert on the subject, but I will say this, what
my gut tells me. As far as I feel about this ordinance, most
people -- many people think an ordinance doesn't have much teeth in
it. I'd remind the commissioners that the Declaration of
Independence was at one time an ordinance.
And the way I feel personally is government has overreached for
many years. Recently, it's overreached in every aspect of our life,
whether it's medical freedom, whether it's education of our children,
whether it's -- whatever the subject is. And my understanding of the
Constitution, the government has never had that right or that ability.
It's been settled with the people.
So I would ask the commissioners to consider approving this
resolution because my belief is we need to change the direction of
what's happening in our country here. And you, as elected
representatives, have that ability. So please consider this resolution.
It's very important to many people in this county. And I thank you
very much for your time.
March 28, 2023
Page 61
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ray Nord. He'll be
followed by Scott Kiley.
MR. NORD: Good morning, Commissioners.
Commissioner Hall, we don't know one another yet, but we will,
I assure you.
I'm here to ask you to not approve this resolution for -- it's not
ready to be advertised. It's incoherent. It has a lot of unsupported
statements in it. It misquotes the U.S. Constitution; did you know
that? The embedded quotations are not accurate, at least accordingly
to the Constitution that I downloaded from the government. So I
think it's not ready for public advertising, whatever else.
I found it, as I said, incoherent, and I don't think you
should -- but I have a more important point. And some of you will
remember that I addressed you before on the subject of the sanctuary
county for the bill of rights. And I said at that time, and I say again,
I don't think the county has a role in interpreting the U.S. or the
Florida Constitution in superseding it or overriding it. That is not in
your arena as far as I know, and I think you ought to take careful note
of whether or not you have the ability to do that.
Another point that I want to make to you is that the resolution,
as it is expressed in the document that I have, had a lot of hooks for
unintended consequences. And unless you scrub those very
carefully, you're going to find yourself on the backside of some of
these issues unsupported, but you're going to have to defend why you
adopted these points as a resolution.
So I urge you to not approve this going forward. Thank you
very much.
MR. MILLER: Our next speaker is Scott Kiley. He'll be
followed by DeAnthony [sic] D'Agostina. Mr. Kiley's been ceded
additional time from Mary Alger. Will you please indicate your
March 28, 2023
Page 62
presence, Mary; raise your hand.
MS. ALGER: (Raised hand.) Right here.
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
And Jill Kiley.
MS. KILEY: Yes.
MR. MILLER: So she'll have -- or, excuse me, Mr. Kiley will
have nine minutes.
MR. KILEY: Good morning, and thank you, Commissioners.
My name is Scott Kiley. I'm a resident of Marco Island, and I'm a
member of the COVID Tyranny Task Force. Today you vote to
approve a public hearing on an ordinance safeguarding the healthcare
rights and freedoms of Collier County residents and to adopt the
Collier County Healthcare Freedom Resolution.
The ordinance will adopt current state statutes, and this strategy
eliminates preemption issues. You see these statutes get passed in
Tallahassee, and the citizens are not -- are not aware of the beneficial
details.
For example, moms don't know that they have the ability to opt
out their children from mandated vaccinations. Employees do not
know that they, too, have options to exempt out of vaccinations when
they're being coerced into getting an injection to keep their job.
Once this ordinance is passed here that mirror state statutes,
activists will battle the censorship head on and train our citizens so
that they know their options and that they have true informed
consent. We are not denying anyone anything, but we are educating
and we are informing.
By having our own ordinance, we will also highlight state
statutes that the citizens believe are unconstitutional. An example,
current Florida Law SB2006 allows the state health officer to use any
means necessary to vaccinate or treat the individual. Well, what if
the vaccination is experimental? What if there is no informed
March 28, 2023
Page 63
consent? What if the vaccination kills?
Now, amazingly enough, over the past three years this exact
level of tyranny unfolded on Collier County citizens, and most of
what the public health officials told us to do was wrong, caused harm,
and caused death. Obviously, this is a law we must change.
We will also vote on a Health Freedom Resolution that states
our God-given human rights. Over time we'll use this to change
state statutes that are harming Collier County citizens. Ten elements
of the resolution include: No medical mandates. Of course, in a
free society, there's no place for medical mandates.
No discrimination. Informed consent without inference. This
is a foundational item found in the Nuremberg Code following the
atrocities of World War II.
The right of personalized care. We want that right. We need
that right. That right should not come from bureaucrats in
Washington or federal agencies that are corrupt.
The right to exclude third-party interference. This is where we
reject the World Health Organization.
The right to not be refused care. The right to a mental health
review. The right of free movement. The right to a medical
advocate. The right to forego unlawful quarantine.
Commissioners, this is the future we should all want to leave our
children and our grandchildren. These basic human rights are
protected in our constitution. When pharma companies have zero
liability and knowingly cause harm, including death, our
constitutional right of life, liberty, and happiness is being severely
violated. Is -- Big Pharma and the FDA and the CDC, are they being
honest?
Let me connect three dots showing that the pandemic was
100 percent completely avoidable. Number 1, therapeutics to
effectively treat COVID were known and available from the very
March 28, 2023
Page 64
beginning; No. 2, with therapeutics known, effective, and available,
no emergency-use authorization can legally be granted. With no
EUA, no vaccine is ever produced. And, No. 3, with therapeutics
rolled out, there is no significant death toll, there's no necessity to
lock down the county or country. There's no closing of churches.
There's no destruction of small businesses and, most importantly,
there's no pandemic.
We must assure this never happens again in Collier County.
You see, we want to trust Big Pharma, the FDA, and the CDC, but
after the past three years, how can there be any trust? What do we
call this level of deception when it permanently injures, kills innocent
lives, mothers, babies, and our finest in the military? And they keep
pushing the vaccination.
So why did this happen? Certainly, money power, corruption,
but the main reason, I believe, can be found in the details of the 2005
International Health Regulations proposed treaty modifications that
give the World Health Organization global control.
You see, COVID-19 has always been about creating a
centralized one-world governance. The globalists find our
constitution an inconvenient to their dictates, mandates, and desired
authoritarian control of humanity through their great reset.
Let's analyze just a few of the proposed changes to the IHR
treaty. If the modifications go through, the World Health
Organization authority changes from advisory to a governing body
whose proclamations would be legally binding. Commissioners, the
translation, the World Health Organization becomes a global
totalitarian medical police state.
Number 2, they will make binding policies on scenarios that
merely have potential to impact public health. Well, this is
perpetuating a constant state of fear around the globe.
Number 3, they will remove respect for dignity, human rights,
March 28, 2023
Page 65
and fundamental freedoms of the people. This is the destruction of
our God-given rights and the destruction of the U.S. Constitution.
Number 4, they will institute a system of global health
certificates via digital IDs and vaccine passports. This is Nazi
Germany all over again. We remember, "Show me your papers."
Last, it greatly expands the World Health Organization's
capacity to censor what they consider to be misinformation, and that
is frightening. Censorship, of course, is the death of any free
society.
Now, some good news. In both the resolution and the
ordinance being proposed today, we're rejecting control from the
W.H.O. and/or any other international body. But we must act today.
Time is running out. We cannot wait. It is clearly evident that all
of those who imposed the past three years of tyranny, they're
doubling down in an effort to crush our voice and our freedom. For
every fallen soldier that fought for our constitutional republic, we
must stand up and fight back, or all will be lost.
Commissioners, regarding the Collier County Health Freedom
Resolution, passage today is essential. It outlines fundamental
God-given rights protected by our constitution. It promotes
fundamentals of bodily autonomy, ending mandates, and ensuring
informed consent. It promotes doctors and patients working together
once again without interference or persecution. The resolution is a
statement of our resolve to do better. It is a statement saying that I
acknowledge mistakes were made. It is a resolve in saying we will
not close businesses without due process. We will not quarantine
the healthy. We will not support tyranny from above that violates
our constitution. We will not separate loved ones at their time of
death. We will foster free speech that allows doctors to share
openly. We will not so casually close our schools. We will seek
the truth and not propaganda.
March 28, 2023
Page 66
We will never force experimental medical mandates, and we
will never again allow doctors and hospitals to deceive patients
withholding information vital to their health, and we will not coerce,
shame, mandate unproven medical treatments on our unsuspecting
citizens. This resolution is not a law. It is a statement aspiring to
do better.
Most importantly, as I close, we have a grassroots efforts rising
up that is unstoppable. When the government acts in a manner that
undermines our Constitution, God commands and the U.S.
Constitution states, we the people must rise up and clearly state we
will not comply. Compliance becomes agreement to authoritarian
control. As you know, governments are here for one reason, to
secure the rights of the people.
Commissioners, please make your mark in history. Let the
army of citizen activists carry the torch of our success in Collier
County across the state and across the country. Protect Collier
citizens. Protect our freedom and protect our constitution.
Commissioners, please pass the resolution today and advance
the health freedom ordinance to a public hearing. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is DeAnthony D'Agostina,
and he will be followed by Scott Sherman.
Mr. D'Agostina has been ceded three additional minutes from
Lisa Hunsberger.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And she is present in the room.
Mr. D'Agostina.
DR. D'AGOSTINA: Good morning, Commissioners. My
name is Dr. Anthony D'Agostina. I have lived in Naples since 1970
when our family moved here from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm the fourth
of seven children. I am currently married, and we have three boys
who are in their 20s and one who is 18.
March 28, 2023
Page 67
I did undergraduate education at the University of Notre Dame,
medical school at the University of South Florida, and my medical
training at the University of South Florida.
I have been classically trained in internal medicine. I've been
board certified for over 26 years, and I am a fellow in internal
medicine with the American College of Physicians.
I will start by saying that what I've witnessed and seen happen in
the medical field over the last three years is nothing short of
devastating. After investigation on the whole topic, I can only
surmise that the cause of this is Big Pharma. They control
everything. They control the medical education through the medical
schools, the hospitals, and our health policy.
The only reason I believe that this is possible is because they
control our government through lobbying, graft, or some other
sources. It has always been my policy regarding vaccinations, new
vaccinations, to not recommend them unless they've been out for a
year or so so we can adequately educate our patients about any
benefits or the risk of the shots, okay, which seemed -- it seemed to
have been put aside with the EUA.
This has always been modus operandi from the start of this
created pandemic. When COVID first came out, I found myself
scrambling as to what I could do for my patients. I read a couple of
anecdotal reports in the New England Journal of Medicine regarding
a doctor in France who was using combination therapy to treat the
illness successfully. This includes a macrolide antibiotic, a steroid
pack, and an antiviral everyone knows as ivermectin or
hydroxychloroquine which, until the pandemic started, were on the
list of necessary drugs by the World Health Organization, but for
some reason it was removed, you know.
And I would argue -- I would try to prescribe this for my
patients, and I would get into arguments with pharmacists about who
March 28, 2023
Page 68
is responsible for the patient's life. Because they refused to dispense
the medications even though they've been around forever, and we
know the risks and possible side effects.
Nevertheless, we were able to find a few pharmacists with open
minds who were able to prescribe what I now call the McCullough
protocol designed by Dr. Peter McCullough for a number of my
patients. By the way, as an aside, Dr. Pete McCullough is the most
published internist and cardiologist in this country, and he's been
defamed and censored and all the other things that happens to good
doctors.
To date, I've treated approximately 2,500 patients for
COVID-19 with this protocol and, to date, almost none were
hospitalized and nobody died. Everyone, for the most part,
recovered.
From the start, I felt that COVID-19 was very much like the flu
and should be treated as such. We have known for a long time that
influenza, if not treated early and aggressively, sometimes can
become worse to the point where patients end up in the hospital with
viral pneumonia.
What I believe caused the high mortality initially with COVID
was the concept of therapeutic nihilism where patients were initially
turned away and told, you have COVID. Go home and lock yourself
in a closet and avoid everybody on the earth. Well, needless to say,
most of them ended up back at the hospital with viral pneumonia.
As it turns out, after these past two-and-a-half years with
successful treatment protocols that have been used, such as the
McCullough protocol, the FDA finally admits that COVID should be
treated very much like the flu.
The other interesting fact is that suddenly there were no cases of
flu for two-and-a-half years, everything was COVID, which is -- I
find hard to believe because the flu's been around for 100 years, and
March 28, 2023
Page 69
it's making a resurgence this year, okay. That was my aside.
But it would turn my stomach every time that the news
mentioned the vaccination and Operation Warp Speed. In my
opinion and from my experience, this is absolutely not necessary.
That said, in my practice, even though I advised patients to the
opposite, I've witnessed at least four patients who suffered death after
multiple vaccinations. One patient was 48 years old and suffered a
hemorrhagic stroke. I've had several patients develop cancers
completely out of the blue. One previously healthy patient
developed pancreatic cancer and was dead within six months.
I had several female patients develop breast cancers all in a
cluster after having repeated negative mammograms in the past.
There are several -- there were several theories regarding this,
including one that I call immune symptom distraction because of how
the vaccinations work, which I could explain in another talk.
Another problem I had with the CDC recommendations was the
social distancing and the mandated mask wearing, which is
absolutely illogical. Several peer review studies have always been
available that demonstrate that masks do not provide any more
protection than your own immune system that's provided you by the
hand of God.
Simple hand washing and behavioral changes, as we have
always done during the cold and flu season, is all that is really
necessary. The illogical 6-foot distancing defies common sense, and
its origin was very suspicious. That said, it breaks my heart to see
children wearing masks at school. There have been several studies
that demonstrate that this causes significant problems with delays in
behavioral growth, okay.
As a final point, the shots have been so ineffective at preventing
COVID that recently most patients that are admitted to the hospital
with COVID have had a history of multiple shots. This is not the
March 28, 2023
Page 70
case with patients that have natural immunity. I would add that I
have been exposed to COVID and have displayed strong natural
antibody and immunities to COVID. Because I refused to get the
shot, at Naples Community Hospital my privileges were denied for
18 months where I couldn't visit my patients even if they were
hospitalized with COVID.
When Johns Hopkins and the CDC actually demonstrated in
their studies that natural immunities are over 27 times more durable
and powerful at preventing COVID than anything you can get from
one of Dr. Fauci's shots, the hospital finally reneged and restored my
privileges.
I must say that it has been a bizarre experience; however, mostly
it has been heart breaking because what has happened has really
transformed medicine. In my opinion, these days we have a
dichotomy of physicians. On the one hand we have corporate
physicians who are employed by large group practices who are more
concerned about their paychecks than doing what is right, and on the
other hand, we have the independent thinkers who make every effort
to inform their patients of the risks and benefits of COVID or any of
these shots.
I refuse to call them vaccinations, because a vaccine, as we all
knew in the past, is supposed to prevent illness. In addition, it is
amusing that they have changed the definition of vaccine in order to
satisfy their indication for multiple repeated injections.
The sad results of mandates is that it has destroyed the
doctor/patient relationship. I am a member of the AEPS, and we
wear these black ribbons to symbolize the death of the doctor/patient
relationship, because the trust has been taken out of the relationship
with the media, et cetera. And --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Doc, please wrap up.
DR. D'AGOSTINA: I will.
March 28, 2023
Page 71
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
DR. D'AGOSTINA: Okay. I thought I had three minutes that
was given to me.
In closing, I cannot overemphasize the need to pass this
resolution. Mandates are unconstitutional. Every medical treatment
or procedure has risk. When there is a risk, there must also be a
choice unless we reproduce the practices of Dr. Josef Mengele in
Nazi Germany. I thought that the Nuremberg trials put an end to all
of this.
There is no place for medical mandates in a free society.
There's not much more that I could add to this, as I could speak
forever about this. Thank you much -- thank you very much for
your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He'll be
followed by Dr. George Yiachos.
Mr. Sherman has been ceded additional time from Jay
Kohlhagen.
MR. KOHLHAGEN: Right here.
MR. MILLER: All right. And by Darwin Brandt.
MR. BRANDT: Yeah.
MR. MILLER: Okay. And we'll have a total of nine minutes.
MR. SHERMAN: Okay. I don't think I'm going to take nine
minutes.
Thank you, guys, for working with us. I really appreciate it.
My name's Scott Sherman. I'm representing today, as a bioengineer,
Dr. James Thorp. We were trying to get him to call in with his data.
He has some very powerful data and, unfortunately, due to technical
issues, he was unable to call in, and so I'm going to present his data.
Now, Dr. James A. Thorp, he's an OB/GYN and maternal
fetal-medicine specialist out of Gulf Breeze, Florida, so he is local;
semi-local. He's in our state. And the study he was going to
March 28, 2023
Page 72
present is called COVID-19 Vaccines and the Impact on Pregnancy
Outcomes and Menstrual Function.
Now, the beauty of his study is -- I spent 35 years as a
bioengineer -- and he has a multi-center study that's done in George,
Colorado, Alabama, California, and Missouri. And they started
studying the flu vaccine in pregnant women in 1998. So he's got
more than 20 years of data studying vaccines in pregnant ladies.
And when they released the mRNA data, it lit up like a Christmas
tree with his standard protocols and everything else. So this man
knows vaccines. He knows pregnant women.
And let me list some of the things that he saw light up.
Menstrual abnormality, miscarriages, fetal cardiac disorders, fetal
growth restriction, abnormal fetal testing, low amniotic fluid,
preeclampsia, preterm premature rupture of the membrane, premature
delivery, and fetal stillbirth. Some of these were in the thousands of
percentiles going up. So, again, it's a multi-center randomized study,
which is the most powerful kind of study you can have.
He also lists in his presentation 34 independent sources
collaborating those, including foreign country governments and mini
schools. So he's got a lot of data that backs this up.
And, effectively -- I don't know if you guys know statistics, but
when you look at the 20 years prior and all the vaccines, you know,
we had kind of a baseline of about five or six problems per thousand
women, and then when you -- in the U.S. population, when the
mRNA technology was released, it went up to a 40 sigma increase.
Now, a 3 Sigma increase puts you in the 98th percentile, so just think
about that. We're off the chart here with these problems with the
mRNA technology in pregnant women. A very strong study.
When you include the Canadian data in this, because they were
mandated to get the vaccine, it goes up to 300 Sigma or 100 times
more than something that would be astronomical in a statistical
March 28, 2023
Page 73
world.
So what we're seeing here is the mandates just completely -- of
this have completely taken away our freedoms and caused harm and
death, significant harm and death to our most vulnerable population:
Unborn children and pregnant women.
So it's important that you guys protect these freedoms. Pass
this resolution, pass this ordinance on to be reviewed, and, you know,
protect these freedoms, because the governments aren't right. Our
medicine should not be dictated by any government, any
nongovernment organization, any international organization. It
should be decided by the patient and the doctor. Even hospitals
should not be able to get in the way between a doctor/patient
relationship. Insurance companies should not tell a doctor how they
can treat their patients. So we need the protection from these
failures we've seen over the last few years.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker will be Dr. George Yiachos,
and he will be followed by Karen Kingston.
Mr. Yiachos -- and I hope I'm saying that right -- has been ceded
three addition minutes from Elissa George.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: For a total of six minutes.
DR. YIACHOS: Good morning. I'm Dr. George Yiachos.
I'm a board-certified specialist in cardiac vascular diseases and the
nuclear cardiology. I've been practicing for over 30 years. I have
practices in New York and here in Collier County. And I'm not here
representing any particular corporation or hospital system.
My education and career were shaped by the understanding that
I would help guide my patients through their health crises so they can
live long, healthy lives free of disease as long as possible. This was
March 28, 2023
Page 74
accomplished by sharing information on how diseases occur, how
the -- how they affect the complex interworkings of the body and
what the latest medical science and technology could do to cure or
alleviate these problems; at the very least, how to reduce suffering in
the case of terminal illness.
All medical decisions required informed consent and
cooperation from the patient. The patient was the principal decision
marker for their healthcare, and I was their intelligence gatherer, their
technician. I was their counselor, and I prayed for the best results
for that patient.
That all changed with the COVID pandemic. I witnessed a
bio-weapon assault not only on this nation, but on the sanctity of the
physician-patient relationship. What did I observe? In the weeks
leading up to the landfall of COVID in the U.S., I witnessed state
health boards and hospital systems accruing ventilators and begging
trained physicians, PAs, NPs, retired nurses, podiatrists, and dentists
to train themselves on how to put a ventilator in a patient because
they really thought that there was going to be a healthcare shortage,
workers were going to get sick and be out of the -- out of
commission.
I witnessed no fervor on what to do before the patient reached
the point where they needed to be intubated. I witnessed ERs
turning sick people away who needed care only to be sent home
without help or medications. They would show up 10 days later
only to die or to get admitted, get paralyzed, get intubated, and then
die a lonely death many weeks to months later.
I witnessed very few deaths with the people who did not go to
the hospital during the pandemic, and I took care of a lot of those
people contrary to what the hospital requested of me.
I witnessed major hospital systems taking pride in their care
despite a 90 percent death rate for in-hospital patient care. I
March 28, 2023
Page 75
witnessed only a handful of physicians who were looking through
research for solutions where there were many. I witnessed studies
showing how, when given early, things like hydroxychloroquine,
ivermectin, vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc, quercetin, and certain
antibiotics could help patients overcome this serious illness.
Despite this, corporate pharmacies and state boards collaborated
to purposefully block these life-saving medications, and they even
threatened to terminate access to supplements.
I witnessed the purposeful suppression of free speech by the
state health boards, social media, and hospital systems. Physicians'
licenses were threatened if they spoke about any of these alternative
therapies.
I witnessed no family members at the bedside; just one phone
call or Zoom call a day was the only communication between
families and these dying patients.
I witnessed the CDC-approved therapy called Remdesivir get
nicknamed "run, death is near" by the nursing staff, and despite the
adverse events observed with this medication, it's still being used
today.
I witnessed physicians taking vaccination -- sorry -- faking
vaccinations because they didn't want an experimental therapy for
fear of losing their license and livelihood; therefore, they wouldn't
speak to their patients about this either. They wouldn't tell them
what the fear was.
I witnessed statistics from the CDC showing no change in
annual death rate in 2020 when compared to the previous 15 years
but, more shockingly, I witnessed a fourfold excess death rate since
the vaccinations began. That's still happening today.
I have now witnessed 16 studies showing ivermectin saves lives,
yet access to the drug was blocked by the federal government in the
past, and there's still difficulties getting this drug to people in certain
March 28, 2023
Page 76
states. I witnessed the destruction of informed consent; no access to
the ingredients of government-mandated vaccines and denial of
access to known side effects. I'm continuing to witness the death
and destruction from a bio-weapon called a vaccine that is being
encouraged by federal agencies and the pharmaceutical companies
that mass produced them. These companies directly benefit from
our taxes.
As a result of these mRNA shots, extraordinary amounts of
people are suffering from myocarditis, pericarditis, reactivate
aggressive cancers, clots, strokes, life-altering disabilities, and
sudden death even in the part of the population that should be the
healthiest: Our kids, our young adults, our 30-year-olds, our
athletes, our military. This experience has been so impactful and
numbing to the public senses that we are not seeing the deserved
panic and concern for the second and most powerful bio-weapon that
hit the United States, and that's the experimental mRNA shot.
Maybe you may think this is old news and the bad times and
actions we witnessed are over, but they are not. We are living in a
dangerous time where a precedent has been set. We have
completely ceded our rights to an oligarchy of Big Pharm and the
health officials who do their bidding.
There are more children, young adults, and adults dying now
than there were during the pandemic. Let that sink in for a second.
My Greek and American heritage have taught me that letting
one's voice be heard is the first and most important step in resisting
tyrannical overreach. Not speaking up loudly and resisting only
emboldens a tyrannical system.
The health bill of rights we are proposing is only a re-expression
of human rights that seem to have been forgotten. Be not concerned
with the laws that could preempt what you want to do locally. Be
concerned with being bold and impactful. Protect your fellow
March 28, 2023
Page 77
human beings from the tyrannical coup that has occurred through our
healthcare industry. It should not be so easy to spread a known
bio-weapon.
With your help, we can restore informed consent and the sacred
trust between physician, patient, and their elected representatives.
This has to be and can be stopped at the local level where there is no
revolving door between our state health departments and the Big
Pharma healthcare technocracy.
The current situation opens the door for further power grabs
during the next health scare. Without action here today, that door
becomes a cliff that tyrannical forces will easily push us over when it
serves their purposes and greed.
Please have the courage to speak up today and have the foresight
to protect your children, grandchildren, and your descendants from
the third parties who don't have the interests of Collier County
citizens at heart. That is precisely what passing this resolution and
voting yes to approve the ordinance for public review will
accomplish. Use the power with which you have been endowed as
the government of the people who elected you, and be the heroes of
Collier County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Karen Kingston. She'll
be followed by Don Priano. Ms. Kingston's been ceded three
additional minutes from Beth Sherman.
MS. SHERMAN: Here.
MR. MILLER: She is present. You'll have six minutes.
MS. KINGSTON: Thank you, Commissioners.
My name is Karen Kingston. I'm a med/legal analyst and
biotech analyst. I have 25 years experience. My work has been
recently used in a number of lawsuits across America to prosecute
Pfizer, and it's also being used in global criminal investigations for
March 28, 2023
Page 78
Pfizer as well.
So first I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity
to speak with you. My family is here -- they're not here right now,
but they are here with me in Naples, and we're going to be moving
here this summer, so I'm very much invested in this community.
But something that Colin Powell had once said is that leadership
is about your soldiers being able to bring problems to you. Your job
is to solve problems, and when your soldiers start -- stop coming to
you, then you're no longer a leader.
So, as Commissioner LoCastro had said, you have a community
of soldiers here, and they look to you as their leaders, and they trust
you, and they respect you, and they -- and they come to you, and
they're comfortable coming to you to say these are our issues, these
are our problems, and we would like your help, and we'd like your
support in overcoming these issues and to protect us and to protect
our children.
So what happens when the federal government and the health
care agencies and state governments get it epically wrong? They get
facts wrong, and they get the Constitution wrong? What do we do?
Because, as Commissioner Hall had said, you're here to protect
our constitutional rights and to make sure that they're not -- they're
not violated. But when constitutional rights are violated and it's
intentional, under 18 USC 241, that's conspiracy to violate rights, and
18 USC 242, it's pretending it's under the color of law that you have
the right to take away people's constitutional rights when you do not,
and those are criminal investigations that happen when that happens,
especially if it results in the disease, disabilities, and deaths of
innocent civilians.
So did Fauci get it right or wrong when he said we need to lock
down the country? Because on March 26th of 2020, he had said the
COVID-19 virus has a .1 percent case fatality rate, similar to the flu.
March 28, 2023
Page 79
Five days later him and Birx get on stage next to President Trump,
and they say 2.2 million people are going to die if we don't lock down
our nation and make everyone go on house arrest. Did they get that
wrong? They got it epically wrong, and it was a violation of civil
rights to make people go onto house arrest.
Did President Biden get it wrong when he passed a mandate
through OSHA for all employers to vaccine -- vaccinate their
employees? Yes, he did, and that was overthrown in 2021. Then he
made a mandate for just the federal workers throughout 2022. Five
federal courts said, no, Biden has overstepped his boundaries. And
just on March 23rd, a federal -- a federal judge in New Orleans said
Biden definitely overstepped his boundaries, and the federal judge in
Texas got it right.
If Biden could require millions of federal employees to undergo
a medical procedure as a condition of their employment, that's a
bridge too far. So both President Biden and the U.S. Supreme Court
got it wrong.
Under 18 USC 241, that is conspiring to violate people's civil
rights. If it results in disease, disabilities, or death it can be punished
by life imprisonment.
Did Pfizer get it wrong and the FDA get it wrong when they said
that this product that they're calling a vaccine prevents COVID-19
infection, when on September 17th of 2021, Pfizer told the FDA
actually, it turns out once you get two of our shots over time, you're
more likely to get infected with the disease. This was then
validated -- oh, I'm sorry. Then also they said it would prevent
hospitalizations and it was safe.
Well, on November 20th, they told the FDA, actually, if you get
our shot -- 409 people came down with severe COVID, meaning they
were either hospitalized or they could have died, and that happened
within one week of the shot. That does not prevent hospitalization.
March 28, 2023
Page 80
Did they get it wrong?
Did they get it wrong when, on October 22nd, 2020, the FDA
met with all pharmaceutical companies, and they said, we know these
mRNA injections are going to cause disease, disabilities, death, heart
attacks, blood clotting, pregnancy outcomes, birth defects?
This is a violation of the Nuremberg Code. This is a violation
of Geneva Article 50. You're not allowed to move forward with
criminal investigation when you know that this is going to put
children, adults, and otherwise healthy individuals at unnecessary
risk. Did they get that wrong?
Did they get it wrong when, on December 16th, in 2016, when
Obama and Congress signed into law the Cures Act? Under Section
3024, it says, under experimental use of emergency use authorized
product, informed consent is not necessary if it is not in the best
interest to such human beings. As Scott Kiley said, this is in
violation of the Nuremberg Code. It's also in violation of Article 50
of the Geneva Code.
Did the FDA get it wrong when they said we should experiment
on children, on babies six months to four years of age? This was
submitted in June 15th of 2022.
Now, five days earlier the FDA met with the pharmaceutical
companies, and they said, it's statistically impossible for us to
develop a vaccine that's going to be more effective against a child's
immune system than the child's own immune system. So should
they have ever even moved forward with experimenting on these
babies, again, six months to four year olds?
In the four-year-old group -- first of all, this study had 4,500
six-month-olds to four-year-old toddlers in it. Only 25 percent of
the babies made it to the end of the study. The other 75 percent
withdrew. Reasons for withdrawal were serious adverse events, the
parent decided to pull them out, and death was a reason for
March 28, 2023
Page 81
withdrawal as well. We don't know what happened to 75 percent of
those babies.
In the toddler group, though, a number of the babies had
something called Status Epilepticus. There was dozens of them,
meaning they had seizures, multiple seizures multiple time a day.
And Pfizer said, well, that's not from our -- that is not from our
product.
There's one I want to read, too. There was a four-year-old with
a family history of seizures and -- actually, they did not have it. And
the study investigator -- they have seizures every day and high fever,
and the study investigator as [sic] unrelated to the BNT-162 vaccine,
but they said it's possibly related to the flu vaccine.
This data is so manipulated it's ridiculous. They would never
allow a child -- a four-year-old child in a vaccine study to then get a
flu vaccine.
Again, the reasons for withdrawal are refuse to further
follow-up, loss to follow up, and death. I've never heard of anyone
calling in to say I'd like to withdraw from the study because I died.
One other point I'd like to make is that there were 344 babies
who were injected with -- they were supposed to get injected with
three shots of the Pfizer shot. Only three babies made it to the end
of the study. Only three babies made it one week post the third dose.
We don't know what happened to 341 babies.
The last thing I'd like to say is that on the Brook Jackson case,
which is a $3 trillion case versus Pfizer, Pfizer basically says, we
committed fraud with the FDA, or if we had, it's okay because the
FDA says that's fine.
And the judge said, so -- to Pfizer, so what you're saying is that
the FDA gets it wrong?
And Pfizer said, yes, Your Honor.
They just get it wrong, and we live with it. There's no oversight
March 28, 2023
Page 82
by a court? That's it? That's correct.
And he said, yes, Your Honor.
So Pfizer and our federal government is saying no matter what
they do, no matter how many rights they violate, no matter how many
people and children they cause disabilities, disease, and death upon,
there is nothing anyone can do to stop them.
I've lost my papers, sorry.
So who -- who do the residents of Collier County turn to to
protect the children, the women, and all residents when the FDA and
the federal government and state governments get it wrong? They
turn to you.
And I ask that you get on the right side of history -- or put
Collier County on the right side of history as we move forward in this
war to protect Americans and protect the Constitution and to pass the
resolution as well as to pass the ability to evaluate the ordinance to go
forward with vote.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dom Priano. He'll be
followed by Dr. Pete Chambers. Mr. Priano's been ceded three
additional minutes from Ken Frazier. Mr. Frazier is present in the
room.
You will have a total of six minutes, sir.
MR. PRIANO: Good day. Good morning, Board of
Commissioners. Thank you for everyone to be here today. It's an
honor to be here standing in front of the Board of Commissioners. I
am very nervous, but I'm going to get through it as quickly as I can.
My full name is -- my full name is Domenico Ivan Priano
Cocchella, born and raised in the beautiful City of Naples, Florida.
Son of Rosangela Cochella and Alier Perdomo, and happily married
to the love of my life, Mazie Kate Priano Cocchella.
March 28, 2023
Page 83
I graduated from the Gulf Coast High School class of 2020, and
shortly after graduating, I wanted to enlist to serve this country and to
uphold our Constitution, and thus I pursued becoming a 5811 military
police officer in the United States Marine Corps.
No one -- again, no one can enlist into any of the military
branches without being deemed perfectly healthy both physically and
mentally through MEPS, or a Military Entrance Processing Station,
of which I was found to have a clean bill of health. In other words, I
was a healthy and eligible young man looking forward to dedicating
my life to the Marine Corps and to serving this country.
In September of 2021, while in training at Fort Leonard Wood,
Missouri, I received orders from my chain of command for the
mandate of the COVID vaccine across all branches of the military
and was informed that the consequences for refusing the vaccine
would result in immediate discharge from active duty with a
dishonorable discharge as well as the revoking of all veterans
benefits, including Veterans Affairs Health Care, usage of the post
9/11 GI Bill, as well as being made ineligible for Veterans Affairs
home loans.
The United States military branch and its leaders were willing to
strip every single service member, no matter how many years of
service or how many medals they've earned, of everything they have
accomplished for this mandated vaccine.
On September 15th of 2021, I had no choice but to take the
Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine so I could continue my service
to this once great country. Sorry. Since February of 2022, I started
experiencing mind-splitting pain through the left side of my chest
where my heart is, what feels like multiple knives digging into
my -- digging into my chest randomly, consistently for a few seconds
to several minutes have caused me to drop to the floor in agonizing
pain.
March 28, 2023
Page 84
On top of the random episodes, I now deal with constant
stagnant pain radiating from my heart as well as a strong numbness
all across the left side of my body 24/7 no matter what I am doing.
I've also been informed that my blood now has a tendency to clot up
to the point where the clots are visibly noticeable on both my
forearms.
Hospitals I was admitted to in Southern California near where I
was stationed, 29 Palms California, including Robert E. Bush Naval
Hospital located in 29 Palms, Desert Regional Medical Center in
Palm Springs, and Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego, denied any
possibility of the symptoms being correlated to the adverse effects of
the vaccine.
Additionally, each faculty team member and so-called doctors
requested that I no longer bring up anything regarding the COVID
vaccine while either being hospitalized for what felt like a heart
attack and/or a stroke for each and every occasion.
I have had -- sorry. I have had fellow service members lose
their lives because of this vaccine, service members young as me, just
21 years of age. The vaccine has caused the death of innocent men,
women, children, and service members alike. For those service
members who are still living on this earth, they're dealing with the
same symptoms as mine, if not worse.
The American people, as well as those who signed the dotted
line to serve this country, are being used as lab rats. Mistreated with
no regard to public health and safety from our allegedly elected
leaders.
I'm only 21 years of age with the heart problems equivalent to a
senior citizen. My life has barely even started. My wife and I want
to live our whole lives together, have kids and a place of our own.
How are we supposed to do that -- how are we supposed to do that
when the vaccine has cut my life expectancy in half?
March 28, 2023
Page 85
Were the lives of the American people even considered when
the mandates were pushed? Were the lives of those who are serving
and protecting our country even assessed? Sorry.
Commissioners, stand up and do whatever needs to be done to
protect the lives of your citizens. Pharmaceutical companies should
not have never [sic] been trusted to begin with. Do your part and
stop the death and injury of the hundreds of thousands of innocent
American lives. Medical mandates must end. Pass the Health
Freedom Resolution and Health Freedom Ordinance before more and
more innocent lives are ruthlessly taken.
I hope the Board does what -- does what is right. Thank you for
your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Pete Chambers. He'll
be followed by Katie Tardif.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hey, Marine, you serve with honor
and pride, remember that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: From a fellow Air Force veteran to
you, I salute you for your service. Never forget that. The discharge
doesn't matter. It matters what was in your heart and how you
served and how you defended this country, and you did it with honor,
and I salute that.
MR. PRIANO: Ditto.
MR. MILLER: Dr. Chambers has been ceded three additional
minutes from Richard Schroeder.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Who is present, or at least he was, yeah, and
Doctor -- or Lieutenant Colonel James F. Guzzi.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Am I getting that right? Right there.
LIEUTENANT GUZZI: Guzzi.
March 28, 2023
Page 86
MR. MILLER: You'll have a total of nine minutes, sir.
DR. CHAMBERS: All right. Ready to go?
My name is Pete Chambers, and retired lieutenant colonel.
Thirty-nine years of service. Started as an infantry guy and a
paratrooper and then a Green Beret and then a doctor.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's it?
DR. CHAMBERS: That's it. War kept coming to me. I
didn't keep going to it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm an Air Force guy so we can --
DR. CHAMBERS: You understand.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- kibitz a little bit back and forth.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I'm Army.
DR. CHAMBERS: Say again?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm Army.
DR. CHAMBERS: Go Army, yeah, that's right. So -- we're
going to create another situation up here.
All right. So first of all, I commend you for your leadership,
because I see it. I see this leadership right here, right now,
especially what you said earlier, Mr. Hall, Commissioner Hall, I
appreciate that, because this is the fight we're in, and I have -- I have
changed my talk here about 10 times listening to the people talking,
because what I needed to say was already said, and I 100 percent
support everything.
And I can tell by your hearts and listening to you that you were
moved by that marine. I was moved by that marine. I took care of
marines. You know we're different branches down range. But as a
doctor down range in Fallujah, my job was to keep everyone alive,
everybody that wore that flag that's in that corner on their right side.
That was my job.
So go to the next slide. If somebody can send it for me, or do I
do it myself?
March 28, 2023
Page 87
MR. MILLER: Just space bar; space button should do it.
DR. CHAMBERS: There we go. So that's me, Pete
Chambers. I'm a soldier. Been one for a long time.
Whistleblower, on 24 January when -- this is what -- I never
wanted to be on the Internet doing anything. I didn't have anything.
I was a Green Beret. I was a doctor for Green Berets. I was at a
Tier 1 unit for a while. My job was to do things in a Title 10
fashion, sometimes Title 50, which are off the books, and my job was
to come home and have every one of my guys come home.
But one day I had to make a choice. My choice was when I had
a two-star general standing in my face saying, Doc -- and this is down
on the Texas border where I was working, Operation Lone Star last
year -- two years ago -- last two years, and our job was to protect the
southern border looking for needles in a needle [sic] stack down there
while 12,480 people came across that border on average a week. It's
three times as many right now. That's a fight.
My job was not -- border patrol's job is different. They take
care of civilians coming across. I was looking for bad guys.
While I'm doing that, I am interposing under the Doctrine of
Lesser Magistrates. John Knox, 1500; look him up. There's a book
out there. It's awesome. And what you people are doing, what you
commissioners are doing is the Doctrine of Lesser Magistrates. You
interpose for your people. I interposed for my marines. I'm not a
marine, but I took care of them. I interpose. I stand in the gap.
And when I had a two-star general come to me and say, Doctor,
you've got to get more shots done here, they're not taking the shots, I
said, well, sir, I'm doing informed consents.
What are you doing informed consents for? That's been taken
off because we had the Care Act thing, yeah. But I'm still a doctor,
and I still need to inform them the good, the bad, and the ugly. And
this was before it was mandated. It wasn't mandated. Nobody had
March 28, 2023
Page 88
taken the shots. I had about a 14 percent vax rate. And then most
of them just took one and realized it's possibly bad.
When the mandate came along -- and it was coming, I knew it
was coming, two, three months, it was coming. Now, meanwhile,
we're out there doing operations on the border.
Next slide. Next slide, Pete.
All right. There's my bottom line up front. I'm going to leave
these things with you, and I suggest that please reach out to me,
because there's so much more here than I can do in six minutes. But
you have to understand that this is a weaponization of public health, a
weaponization of the health care system. With the things that have
taken place, these codifications, what it resulted in was a two-star
general coming to me -- because I'm getting to the story -- saying it
ain't about the science, Doc; it's about the policy, all right.
Twenty-seven-year-old, myocarditis, pericarditis, soldier on the
border. He's out now. Has the heart of an 80-year-old. I
empathize that marine, and you'll know more why here in a second.
Thirty-seven-year-old got COVID. I had ivermectin in my
inventory. They took it out of my inventory. Said, you can't use the
ivermectin anymore, my command, my senior doctors who have
since retired and apologized to me. But that's what happens when
time and information comes out.
We can change our minds. We can pivot. I've been on my
knees in a puddle of blood working on a soldier just on the other side
of the X right out there and done things and thought for many years,
did I do the right thing? Because that soldier may not have make it
home -- made it home. I have to think. I've got to pivot. I might
have done something wrong. Because I take my job serious. I'm a
professional, or I was.
Sometimes we've got to pivot. Sometimes we've got to grab the
bull by the horns and kick down the door like John Wayne. We've
March 28, 2023
Page 89
got to go in there and with all -- all intent for what is right, what is
legal, moral, and ethical, stand up for those people. Stand in the gap
for those people, interpose for them, because it's mandated by God,
and John Knox said it in 78 scriptures that he used to the Nobles of
Scotland when he interposed. Then our people that wrote the
Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they looked at it,
and they used that as part of the basis of it. They used that doctrine.
It's important. It's right there. I've got it in yellow.
So the "so what." The "so what" is we're at a national security
crisis. We know this. We can't hide our head in the sand anymore.
We've lost so many military. Out of 35,000 aviators right now
across the board, across the board in the military, 35,000, Army,
Navy, Air Force, Marines, not Coasties. They're just not in this
group. And I don't know about the Space Force. I don't think they
exist.
But anyway, out of the 35,000, we've got 4,000 significant
events, medical events that have happened this last year. That's a
lot. That's a significant amount. These are the fittest people in the
world in uniform, the fittest people.
We are losing our republic if we let these things happen, these
little things. That's why we stand in the gap. That's why me as a
doc down range, I go in the door sometimes with them because I've
got to be there. Because I was a former 18 Alpha, I can command in
combat. I can do that. We will do that. We stand in the gap.
Whatever our jobs are.
Marxist ideology, I don't need to go there. We see it.
The bottom left, this is the most important thing for legislators to
understand. I've spoken in Alaska to legislators, Idaho, Oklahoma,
Texas, and back on the Hill on four National Defense Authorization
Acts trying to explain to them why those mandates were killing my
soldiers on that border. Because when the guy that came and
March 28, 2023
Page 90
replaced me after I was fired for doing informed consents -- I was
fired, and the general said, well, you're just an anti vaxxer, and you're
going to -- and I said, sir, that's an unlawful order. I can't do that.
And that's a -- that's a tough moment for a colonel, a light colonel,
when the two star's in my chili.
He fired me. He did. He tried to get me, you know,
non-judicial punishment for disobeying his direct order. But the
most important thing is I return with pride. I return with honor.
That's one of the things we talked about in, SERE, Survival Evasion
Resistance Escape, is to return with honor.
Right now -- right now, this is not cognitive dissonance
anymore. This is Stockholm Syndrome. That's what's happened to
our nation. They've been given, they've been taken away, they've
been given, they've been taken away. And what we have to do is
walk in that door like a hostage rescue team and say, follow me if
you want to live, because we're at that point. It's time sensitive.
That's the current -- or that's the current situation, as I see it.
I'm being a sentinel. Why am I here Collier County, Florida?
Because this is part of America. And I'm working on a project down
here for sovereignty. I've been in five counties now. Speaking up
in Sarasota Hospital two weeks ago. We're all in this together.
Whether you're left or right, or whatever you are, we're all
Americans. We fit under this bell curve of America. And I would
die for each and every one of you because you are worth it. You are
worth it, and that's what this is all about.
That marine is worth it, and we will stand by him because he
stood for us. Anybody's that's worn a uniform understands that.
Whether you wear one or not, we're all part of this fight, because
there's a bigger fight somewhere more spiritual than I can even go
into right now. And so we're just going to stay away from that.
We've got to control the controllables. The first thing you do
March 28, 2023
Page 91
when chaos ensues -- and I've been there. You know why I know?
Why I know I've been vax damaged? Oh, that's right. I'm not an
anti vaxxer, sir. I took it. I was the first one out of the gate because
they said, Doc, you've got to take this. You're going to the border.
This is a mandatory thing. I said, all right, roger that.
Now, I hadn't done my homework, and it doesn't really matter.
I'm willing to take a bullet for my soldiers. You're dang right I'll
take this for my troops on the border if I can keep them from taking
it. Because I had one slide on the board, skull and crossbones. And
the front of it said, "mRNA. Any questions?"
And my soldiers are like, no, sir.
Get out the door. Go to work. All right.
I can tell you that now. I couldn't tell them then. I'm out of the
military.
All right. Control the controllables. There's chaos. When
chaos ensues, that's what we've got to do.
When I found out I had demyelination in my brain -- I'm going
to go over about five seconds. When I found out I had demyelination
in my brain, you know how I found out? Jumping out of a plane at
12,800 feet looking at an altimeter and going into vertigo, spinning
like this on terminal velocity on the way to the ground. Pulled out of
it, landed my chute about three miles off the drop zone.
Went and got an MRI. They said, you've got multiple sclerosis,
Doc.
I was like, no, I don't have that. I had an MRI after I got blown
up the last time in Afghanistan.
No, that's what you got.
No, it was from the shots.
Eleven hundred percent rise in neurologic disorders. I testified
it in Tampa, SEALs versus Lloyd Austin. Look it up. That's what it
was.
March 28, 2023
Page 92
We're all in this together. We're in the fight. And the leaders,
they're going to take shots at you no matter what you do. Just know
we're behind you. Appreciate you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kate Tardif, and she will
be followed by David Silverberg.
MS. TARDIF: What I have to say today is nothing like what I
wrote before coming here today.
I appreciate Commissioner LoCastro's comments regarding how
10A comes to be on the agenda and what is the rightful discourse
regarding 10A today, and I'll try to -- I'll try to stick to that.
But I must say I, too, like most, are moved by some of the
comments of speakers before me. Despite the fact that I hold
opposing views to some of their conclusions, I very much respect the
service of our military and other service health professionals,
teachers, police. And I say those things not to minimize the
comments of the speakers who were military and describe some
horrific circumstances, but to say that you can't hear what they said
and not feel their pain.
So one of the things I'm going to go -- and, I'm sorry, these are
going to be pretty random now. I think that public health has to do
with the greater good, and public health actions must be driven by
qualified medical and health professionals. That's just how public
health works. And I don't think anyone would argue that we should
not support public health.
This should not the forum or the place for us to be rehashing the
mistakes of COVID. If we all go back to what was coming out of
China --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am? Ma'am --
MS. TARDIF: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- remember, you're just addressing
March 28, 2023
Page 93
us.
MS. TARDIF: Oh, so sorry. So sorry. May I have a minute
back? Okay. Thank you.
In my opinion, this is not the forum or the place for us to be
rehashing the mistakes of the management of COVID. Most people
will remember how terrified we were at what was happening with
people dropping like flies. And I doubt there's anyone in this room
who doesn't have family or friends lost to COVID in the early days.
COVID was a real phenomenon. COVID happened.
The responses were rushed, and I don't -- I'm not making
excuses for the professionals who made some poor decisions, but
they were making decisions under extraordinary circumstances.
What I do want to say is that at this point the only -- the only
individuals -- the only agencies that can speak to our government
reactions to situations like that and other public health policy are
public health -- public medical professionals. We rely on them.
And public health actions must be and can only be driven by
qualified medical and health professionals, not politicized opinions.
The first speaker today spoke of government overreach as a
two-way street, and I think most people who are capable of critical
thinking can agree with that. You can like it and love it at the same
time. The second speaker said this very important
ordinance/resolution isn't ready. It's not ready for consideration yet.
It needs more work.
And the county doesn't have a role in interpreting or superseding
the state or federal government. So if we acknowledge those things,
then we have to agree that the right place for discourse about 10A is
back to the drawing board and reimagining what it is that you want
that to look like and even, I would further say, if it's something that
we should even be contemplating. That's it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
March 28, 2023
Page 94
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Silverberg. He'll
be followed by Jennifer Walker.
MR. SILVERBERG: Okay. Thank you very much. My
name is David Silverberg. I'm a resident of District 2. Thank you
very much for this opportunity to speak today.
I want to honor the service people and their service and express
my sympathies for those who have suffered and, you know, feel that
they've been damaged by the past pandemic, as in many ways all of
us have been.
That said, I want to address the role of the county in this effort.
And I'm not going to get into the details and the textual arguments,
but I wanted to look at the overall -- the procedure and the
appropriateness of these two pieces of legislation.
Number 1, they're completely unnecessary. They're completely
unnecessary because the state has already passed laws and enacted
them, and they're going on two years now prohibiting mandates, all
kinds of mandates, whether the vaccine or the documentation or, you
know, COVID passports as they're called. Whatever. It can't be
done. So this is completely redundant. It's completely unnecessary.
It's also, secondly, a -- it's not -- it's not the best use of the time
of this county when you have so many other issues of growth, of
roads, as we were -- as you discussed earlier. This is a distraction,
and it's a major distraction. It does not need to be addressed at the
county level or from this county.
Also, there are potential expenses in this. I mean, as a taxpayer,
I don't even want $600 spent on advertising this. And I think that
that's not a -- as small a sum as that is, this is not the best use of our
taxpayer money.
Fourth, I think that putting this on the agenda, making this an
ordinance with potential penalties that are not even really elucidated
in the text of the bill would -- unnecessarily divides this county, as
March 28, 2023
Page 95
you've already seen -- as you can see today. I mean, people have
strong opinions, and that's fine. But I think this would be an
unnecessary wedge in this county's population.
Also, this -- these measures have the potential to interfere with a
scientific administration of our public health and with our first-rate
medical establishment here in Collier County. They have enough on
their plate without needing additional political interference.
And, sixth, if the ordinance is passed and it's challenged in
court, then the county has to bear the burden of additional litigation
fees and expense and time, and it is simply not worth it when there is
already a state law that does what this legislation seeks to do.
I want to thank you for your time and your attention. I'm
available for any other questions you may have.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jennifer Walker. She
will be followed by Joy Vroman.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Jennifer had to leave.
MR. MILLER: Joy Vroman will be followed by Carol Moor.
MS. VROMAN: Hi, good morning. I'm Joy Vroman. I live
in Naples, ZIP Code 34108.
I have been a registered nurse for 33 years with a bachelor's in
science from Villa Nova University. I started my career at Johns
Hopkins Hospital, Halstead 4, HIV/AIDS floor, the other virus
pandemic that did not shut down our country. Mercy Medical
Center, associated with University of Maryland. I am also an adult
critical care nurse. Naples Community Hospital, Quality Risk
Management, I was hired to make orthopedics a center of excellence
as a nurse case manager.
I have lived in Naples 27 years. I've worked part time as a
school nurse in Naples private schools for 20 years. What I saw as a
school nurse post pandemic was unbelievable. The amount of
post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, headaches,
March 28, 2023
Page 96
dehydration in students from K, age 5, to 12/18. The majority of my
job estimated 75 percent post shutdown of this country and
mandatory mask was providing emotional support for these young
children living in fear. They were paralyzed in fear.
In Florida we were blessed. Our children could take off their
mask and go outside and catch their breath, play sports. But what
our country did to this generation is a crime against humanity. The
children were scared for their lives. COVID in our youth was a cold.
On a personal note, why am I here? My father, president/CEO
of a large business in Naples that employed 107 employees for 35
years. His home address is Naples 34108. I am his medical HIPAA
legal guardian. Against my wishes, advised by my father, my dad
got the Moderna shots. My dad got the Moderna booster shot at the
end of November 2021. He collapsed two weeks later and broke his
neck. Everything that could be ruled out for a patient collapsing was
ruled out on my father. Let me repeat, I'm an adult critical care
nurse. I know what you have to rule out when a patient collapses.
My dad, when he collapsed of unknown medical reasons, broke
his neck. After my father was emergently transferred to Jackson
Memorial Hospital in December of 2021, he was operated on by the
No. 1 neurosurgeon in this country, Dr. Allen Levy.
My father is paralyzed from the Moderna booster. He lives a
life in an electrical wheelchair. He has 24-hour care in his home
seven days a week. He is incontinent in a diaper. My father is
completely mentally competent, which is the hardest part. The only
mistake my father made is he trusted our government. He trusted
our Florida Department of Health. He trusted his doctor. He
trusted Dr. Fauci. He trusted the CDC. Every single one of these
agencies failed my father, and I know that. I have filled out a
VAERS report for my father for the State of Florida and have heard
back from no one.
March 28, 2023
Page 97
I am not vaccinated, and the reason for that is I did my medical
research. I did not stop reading and researching. Nothing made
sense. Nothing added up.
Our family business in Naples, when they went to be tested, they
would wait two to three hours and leave to go home. Every single
one of them came back positive. Let me repeat. They were never
tested. Our business was open. We were one of the lucky ones.
Our employees were able to receive paychecks. No one died from
COVID.
The only person that was hurt was my father, getting the
booster, an honorable Vietnam veteran who came home from war and
then was crippled by a shot that wasn't even a vaccine, an
experimental mRN shot that did not stop COVID. And I personally
got COVID twice as a school nurse keeping our schools open. I did
not die.
I support the Collier County Health Freedom Bill of Rights and
to adopt the Collier County Freedom Resolution.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Carol Moor. She'll be
followed by Dr. Rebecca Smith.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, this will be our last
speakers, and then we're going to break for lunch. All the
commissioners are due upstairs to meet with those students at noon.
MR. MILLER: I understand, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then we will -- we will
reconvene at 1:00.
So, ma'am, you'll be the last speaker before the break.
MS. MOOR: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioners.
Firstly, nowhere is public health mentioned in the Constitution.
The experts that have testified have more than made a
compelling case for support of your yes vote for Collier County
March 28, 2023
Page 98
Freedom Bill of Rights addressing the medical freedom to come
forward for review again.
It is so sad that we have to convince anyone of our God-given
rights, our constitutional rights not to be forced to wear a toxic face
diaper or to accept a poison jab, et cetera, yet here we are.
The Commission really doesn't have the power to vote no if you
are to uphold your constitutional duty. I implore you to do the right
thing and unanimously approve this initiative. Those that oppose
this -- and I don't mean you -- are for medical tyranny. I might add
they are typically the ones supporting the right for a woman to abort
her unborn child. Well, I say to them in their words, "My body, my
choice."
And I respectfully implore you to stand for us when our state
legislature and governor have failed us. And where have they failed
us? You know, we are not protected by that 2006 legislation that
said they can't COVID jab us because, if you read that, that
legislature [sic], okay, if you read from 1097 to 111 [sic], they can
put us in quarantine camps, force vaccinate us in Florida, and use any
means necessary if we resist. Do you know that? Have you read
the thing? Has anybody here read it? Go and read it, because what
they did was they protected us from being forced COVID, but
they left the wording in from the 1097 and 1111, those lines, that they
can quarantine us. I can read the exact letters -- read the exact words
if I have time.
But I wanted to finish my point and say that I like that -- you
know, here's the thing, the W.H.O. is wanting to come in and control
us, and our federal government's letting them do that. What's
happened is our state legislature has let us down. You are our front
line. You are our final defense against this medical tyranny that's
coming after us.
And, you know, I was talking to the Sheriff out in the hallway
March 28, 2023
Page 99
telling him the same thing, and if you guys fail, he's our last defense,
you know. He can -- he's the one who's going to have to have a big
war on his hands when they come trying to jab us all up with the next
invented, you know, plan-demic.
So I really implore you to -- well, like Scott said, I know -- I
don't know what your procedures are, but figure out a way to vote on
it today and get this over with, because time is really of the essence.
We have laws on our books that allow them to come in and put any
one of us in an internment camp if they don't like the way we sneeze
and to force jab us at any means necessary. Can you imagine what
that means? Can you imagine, like, 10 armed guys holding me
down and stabbing me with their poison? This is what -- this is what
the law has said. So just read it because anybody who says that
they've taken care of that up in Tallahassee, they have not. They
have not taken care of us. You guys need to. God bless you all.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll take a one-hour
lunch break, and we will reconvene at 1:00.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We'll resume our meeting here at
1:00.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. If I can get everybody's
attention, we're going to resume with our public speakers.
So, Mr. Miller, who's next at the podium?
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Rebecca Smith, and
she will be followed by April Donahue.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Dr. Smith was not able to come
back.
MR. MILLER: Oh, okay. April Donahue, and she will be
followed by Libbie Branson.
March 28, 2023
Page 100
MS. DONAHUE: Hello. Good afternoon. April Donahue,
executive director of Collier County Medical Society, and I speak
today on behalf of the board of directors. I am sorry they were not
able to make it in person.
The Medical Society Board acknowledges and recognizes
patient rights and freedoms through our State of Florida statute
Section 381.026, the Florida Patient's Bill of Rights and
Responsibilities. This promotes the interest and well-being of
patients of healthcare providers and healthcare facilities, and the
CCMS Board can support the reaffirmation of these rights in Collier
County.
The CCMS board acknowledges throughout the COVID-19
pandemic there has been a loss of trust by many community members
in the many systems that we have in our country at many levels;
however, we believe the proposed resolution would not be effective
in rebuilding this trust, and we cannot support it as written.
At our community level, the CCMS holds great value in the
patient/physician relationship and works to preserve the ability to
make individual health decisions based on this relationship.
We look forward on working with the commissioners in the best
interests of our community to follow the preponderance of evidence
in health and safety measures, and we would be grateful for any
additional time before a vote on the resolution to work with you to
make it a more effective resolution.
Thank you for your time today.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, before we go to the next speaker,
could we just make sure Commissioner Saunders is still on?
MR. MILLER: He is still online.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Just checking. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm still here.
March 28, 2023
Page 101
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Libbie Branson. She'll
be followed by Gene Goldenziel.
MS. BRANSON: Good afternoon. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak today.
I, too, was moved by the experiences of some of the speakers
this morning, but decisions are made on statistically projectable data,
and I question whether the data presented was statistically
projectable.
As for the ordinance and the resolution, both documents are
based on misinformation, turned scientific facts upside down and
inside out, and politicized the basic foundations of our government.
Both documents can result in endangering the health and well-being
of Collier County residents.
What I do know is that in our democratic form of government,
we have rights and responsibilities. We have the right to make
decisions about our health so long as those decisions do not endanger
the health of others. In the case of a pandemic involving a deadly
contagious virus, when there is an effective proven vaccine available,
it is the responsibility of people to be vaccinated, and it is the
responsibility of government to facilitate the vaccination process.
As a country, we can be proud of how polio, smallpox, and other
deadly illnesses have been controlled, but we cannot be proud of how
COVID-19 was handled. Never before in my lifetime have political
leaders suggested sipping Clorox cocktails in lieu of lifesaving
vaccines or opted out of federally funded vaccination programs.
The proposed Health Freedom Bill of Rights Ordinance and
Health Freedom Resolution are neither helpful nor free. They have
the potential to negatively impact our collective future health, which
means we are likely to pay a huge price, a price in lives and a price in
dollars.
Of equal concern, these documents are wrapped in the language
March 28, 2023
Page 102
of patriotism while suggesting that Collier County has the freedom to
pick and choose which state and federal laws it wishes to follow.
I respectfully urge you to vote no on the resolution today. As
for the ordinance, it's redundant with state laws. I suggest you shred
it and focus on specific concerns such as affordable housing, our
crowded roads, hurricane protections, and other things that are
important here and now to Collier County.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gene Goldenziel.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: I don't see Gene in the room.
Julie Wade?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: And that is the last two speakers I had
registered, sir. It looks like they did not make it back from lunch.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And nobody on Zoom or --
MR. MILLER: Nobody on Zoom for this item, no.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't have any
commissioners lit up, but I kind of want to call on Commissioner
Hall to maybe just get us started with some discussion after you've
heard all the public comment.
COMMISSIONER HALL: As far as -- I do want to say some
things about the -- you know, just because we can talk about it, I want
to bring some things up on this resolution. You know, I mentioned
it -- I mentioned the resolution is in case things change. The
ordinance for Collier County is in case things ever change.
You know, the way that the Constitution is set up, we do have
rights locally. As long as we have a constitutional sheriff who is
willing to back the ordinances that we pass, we do have rights.
We're not subject to the federal government. We're not subject to
just state statute. We have -- you know, that's what local ordinances
March 28, 2023
Page 103
are for.
So the first whereas, our federal, state, and health agencies have
demonstrated a clear inability to be truthful, that's accusatory. That's
very assumptive. It's -- we can see that, but as far as when I said
earlier being facts, it's fairly assumptive. It's accusatory.
The second two, the constitutional rights are violated, yes, they
have. We got forced on.
Immunity protection to hospitals has been provided, yes, that's
true.
The first four or five, they can be assumptive or they can be
accusatory, and the rest of them are just straight-up facts.
I'm fine with the assumptions and I'm fine with the accusatories
in case anything ever changes. If that -- if that accusation ever got to
be fact, I would want this resolution in place. So it's not like we're
just acting today as these are just exactly the way it is today. It's in
case it ever got that way.
We all -- I'm not going to say we all. There's not -- it's not -- I
can't say all. I experienced medical tyranny. I'm not vaccinated;
never will be. I never caught COVID. I never social distanced like
I was supposed to. I never even really washed my hands like I
wanted -- well, like my mama would want me to.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Like Dot said to?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. Never once was sick, not
one time. I spent a year and a half during COVID, during -- you
know, in the campaign shaking hands, talking to everybody.
But that was my choice, and that's all I'm asking to be able
to -- for other people to do. We want you to listen to your doctor; do
what your doctor says. I want to listen to my doctor; do what my
doctor says. We don't want to limit or control anybody's freedom.
So -- but when I hear the opposition, when I hear the public
health, what you want to do is you want to exercise -- you want your
March 28, 2023
Page 104
freedom to -- you want my freedom to agree with your freedom. If I
don't choose to get vaccinated, then you don't want to lose control
based on this ordinance, and that's what I see it as. I don't see like
we're infringing on your freedom. We are infringing on your control
over us. And that's what the ordinance and that's what the resolution
is to me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I want to thank all the
speakers that came to the podium and not only spoke eloquently,
regardless of what side they were on, but were professional. You
know, we're trying to figure out how to do this and not be extremists.
But there were more than a couple of speakers -- I'll go back to
my original point that -- and I respect everything that they say, but
when you end it saying, please vote no on this ordinance, okay, well,
that's not what we're here to do today. So I don't know who would
be the better person to summarize again actually what we're doing
today and maybe we're not doing, if it's the County Manager or the
County Attorney. Because I don't want it to be one of the
commissioners just yet, but County Attorney --
MR. KLATZKOW: The --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- for the record, summarize
exactly what we -- what's on the table and maybe what's not, to
separate rumor from fact, because more than a couple of speakers and
hundreds of emails that we've all gotten actually aren't correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: There are two essential items before the
Board. One is an ordinance. The other is a resolution. With
respect to the ordinance, you are being asked if you wish to move
forward with -- direct me to advertise it and bring it back for a full
public hearing. With respect to the resolution, you may adopt that
today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
March 28, 2023
Page 105
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If I might, since
Mr. Klatzkow has gotten the floor there, I'd like -- we're dealing with
the resolution today. I'd like for Mr. Klatzkow to go into some
detail -- and this will take a few minutes, but I think we need to know
exactly what this resolution does and does not do, not just the
general, you know, it's a resolution that we're approving. I want to
know what the resolution does from the perspective of the County
Attorney.
So, Mr. Klatzkow, can you educate me on what this resolution
says and what it does?
MR. KLATZKOW: The resolution is simply the Board
expressing its intents, its desires. It's -- from a legal standpoint, it's
nonbinding. It's simply an expression of the Board's will, and it's an
expression of, I guess, anger towards the way that the government
has handled the COVID-19 and other items.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could you tell me -- go in
some detail as to what's in this resolution, not just that it's an
expression of our intent. I'd like to hear what it says.
MR. KLATZKOW: All right. And perhaps if Troy could --
MR. MILLER: I'm trying to pull it up.
MR. KLATZKOW: We're going to pull it up again on the
screen, Commissioner, so everybody can see here.
MR. MILLER: It will take a couple minutes here to load.
We're having Internet issues.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, am I correct -- I don't want
to oversimplify -- the resolution is sort of the verbiage and the
nice-to-have wordage, but the ordinance is really the meat, the
directive, it's a little bit more of the meat on the bone? Is that a fair
summary or not --
MR. KLATZKOW: An ordinance is -- an ordinance is legally
March 28, 2023
Page 106
binding.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: A resolution -- and this board does
resolutions of all sorts. It's simply an expression of the Board's will.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Will.
MR. KLATZKOW: And we're having technical difficulties.
All right. Well, I'll just go -- I'll just go in order.
The first thing that the resolution resolves is that there's a right
to no medical mandates, stating that it's unlawful in any circumstance
to mandate any medical protocol, drug, medical procedure, et cetera,
on any patient or citizen of Collier County.
Again, this is not a legal issue. If the federal government gives
a lawful mandate, for example, you had a smallpox outbreak, you
know, we would be bound by it.
The second is right to no discrimination. It's against the law to
discriminate against any patient or citizen based on their medical or
healthcare decisions.
Third, informed consent. We're asking that people be given
their informed consent from their doctors without any interference by
anyone.
Number 4 is a right to personalized care. Doctors and patients
have the right to use any and all legally available therapies for
treatment without reprisal or punishment.
Fifth, right to exclude third-party interference. This relates to
the concept that we do not have to abide by anything that's not
constitutional nor do we have to abide by any directives from the
World Health Organization or any other international body.
The sixth is the right to not be refused care, all right. No
pharmaceutical or medical institution can mandate a person's vaccine
or health history status as a precondition to admittance, treatment, or
right to do interventional therapy.
March 28, 2023
Page 107
The seventh is the right to mental health review. No person in
Collier County can be held for more than 72 hours without a judicial
remedy in a court of law or in front of a jury of their peers. Though
I will tell you that there's a Baker Act that specifically preempts us on
this thing, but this, again, is just the Board's intent.
Eighth, right of freedom of movement. Health vaccine
passports prohibited in Collier County. Again, nonbinding.
Nine, the right to medical advocate. Citizen patients have the
right to medical advocates of their choice.
Ten, right to forego unlawful quarantine. It is unlawful to force
quarantine any Collier County citizen without a judicial remedy in a
court of law in front of a jury of your peers.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Klatzkow, a
couple questions in reference to the resolution.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Does this -- does this in any
way prohibit a hospital from determining who has admitting and
treatment privileges in their hospital? All hospitals have physicians
that are on their staff. Does this interfere with the ability of hospitals
to continue to determine who is capable and qualified to practice
medicine in their hospitals?
MR. KLATZKOW: It does not.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Now, does this in any way
mandate that a physician who chooses not to treat certain diseases
with certain remedies, certain procedures, does this require that
doctor to do something that the doctor would not be willing to do?
Is the doctor, for example, required to provide hydroxychloroquine to
a patient that has COVID-19?
MR. KLATZKOW: It does not.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. In your view,
does this in any way interfere with the doctor/patient relationship?
March 28, 2023
Page 108
MR. KLATZKOW: It does not.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. So, Mr. Chairman
and members, I don't have any particular problem with the resolution
with the understanding that it's a statement of some intent but of very
limited legal significance. But I would like to ask County
Attorney -- we're going to be dealing with whether we're going to
advertise the ordinance for publication. I'd like to go through the
same process with the County Attorney on the ordinance, because I
want to -- I want to understand exactly what it does and what it
doesn't do. I'm pretty comfortable with what the resolution does not
do and what it does, but I want to get comfortable with what the
ordinance does.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay. We'll start on Page 2 of the
ordinance, Line 41. Line 41 is simply the adoption of existing state
law. It is a cut-and-paste that we created for Collier County.
Section 6, starting at page -- starting at Line 52, is the same
thing. It's simply a cut-and-paste of existing state law that we
Collierized.
Section 7 is new. It states that the Board shall not impose any
vaccination mandate for any of its employees without the unanimous
consent of the Board.
Section 8 is new. It requires a unanimous vote for a mask
mandate or quarantine order.
Section 9 is new. It states that Collier County shall not require
a vaccine passport as a condition of entry without the unanimous vote
of the Board.
Section 10, we do not recognize -- and that is new. We do not
recognize -- well, unless compelled by federal or state law, we do not
recognize any authority by the World Health Organization or any
other international body to impose any health mandates within
Collier County.
March 28, 2023
Page 109
Section 11 simply incorporates the Florida's patient Bill of
Rights, which is extensive, into ordinance form. No changes to the
state law. Penalties on this ordinance are consistent with any other
code violation. They typically go to the Code Enforcement Board or
the Special Magistrate. You would get your typical fines, $100 a
day, $200 a day, et cetera. And that's it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And then,
Mr. Klatzkow, in terms of this requires a unanimous vote of the
Board to do certain things, this will sound a little strange, perhaps, to
some folks. But to repeal this ordinance, if it got to a point where at
some point in time the Commission wanted to repeal an ordinance
that had these provisions in it, what vote would it take of the
Commission to repeal an ordinance that has unanimous voting
requirements in the ordinance itself?
MR. KLATZKOW: Three votes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So in your view, is
there anything in this ordinance that changes -- basically changes
existing law as it applies to Collier County?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, no. The only thing it touches on is
the mask mandate.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the vaccine passports
and the vaccination of county employees. Those are new.
MR. KLATZKOW: We don't do those.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me. I didn't mean to
interrupt.
MR. KLATZKOW: We don't do that, but, yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So those are changes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would say that, quite
frankly, with that discussion from the County Attorney, I don't have
any particular problem with advertising the ordinance, but I
wanted -- I wanted to go through this because I think it's important
March 28, 2023
Page 110
for the public as well as for the Board to know what are we really
doing here; what are we changing? And it sounds on this ordinance,
other than those mandates in terms of mask and vaccines and things
of that nature for our staff, we're not changing -- we're basically
codifying state law, which, quite frankly, is part of our legal regime
anyway.
So with that understanding, I don't have any particular problem
with advertising the ordinance.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I just want to -- before I go to
Commissioner McDaniel and then Commissioner Hall, just to
piggyback on what Commissioner Saunders said,
advertising -- everything you just read, advertising the ordinance
means we'll have more public discussion. We might change the
wording of all this. So if we vote today to move forward to direct
you to advertise and bring back for a public hearing the ordinance as
you just read it, we're not saying we agree with every line on there.
We're just agreeing to further the discussion, correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: It would replace -- it would be placed as
an Item 9 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- on your next agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. And at the end of that
discussion, we might say, you know what? We just had a three-hour
meeting on it. I hate everything on there, I'm voting against it, or I
think it's all perfect, and we move forward, or I want to change A, B,
C, D, and E, right? It would give us all that latitude on the
ordinance?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. The only thing I would ask from the
Board, if you want to make any changes, that we make them now so
we could advertise those for the public and then bring back the final
March 28, 2023
Page 111
version.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But if during the public hearing we
heard new information, we heard -- I mean --
MR. KLATZKOW: You are correct, sir. You are correct, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. We have that latitude, I
mean, so -- Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I'd like to move this
along. Because we have two things necessarily that we have today.
And I want to ask Commissioner Hall to make the motion to bring
back the ordinance -- advertise it and bring it back at a future
meeting. I think the County Attorney said our next meeting, but --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I make the motion to move the
ordinance forward to public advertising and to pass the resolution.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, don't do both.
COMMISSIONER HALL: All right. So I make the motion to
move the ordinance forward to public advertising.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I have a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So moving the ordinance
forward for a public -- to a public hearing has been approved
unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Now I have --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir, go ahead.
March 28, 2023
Page 112
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On the second thing,
Commissioner Hall, I have -- I have concerns with the resolution.
And for those of you who were here during the -- during the event, I
advocated 100 percent for personal choice all the way along the line.
I have concerns with some of the extremities that are brought forward
in this resolution, and I'd like to --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- I'd like to have some
discussion with regard to these things.
You already pointed out that the first whereas is rather
accusatory. The third whereas, it talks about -- it makes statements
of conjecture almost. The immunity protection, those things -- we
know those things were put out there just because of the lack of
knowledge that was surrounding the vaccinations and the necessary
treatments.
I have real concerns with the fourth whereas where it designates
the vaccine as a bio-weapon. It may well be. It's been
demonstrated that -- or represented, I should say, that it could be
construed as a bio-weapon, but I have concerns about us.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Didn't we remove that one?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, which one are you reading?
COMMISSIONER HALL: We removed that one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The fifth.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You have an old version.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, you've got an old version in
front of you, actually. Click on the agenda; they put the latest one in
here there.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Just while we're going back and
forth --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because I've got notes on the
March 28, 2023
Page 113
old one. The only one I have here is the old one.
COMMISSIONER HALL: They're all pretty similar. We did
away with two of those.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Which ones did we go away
with? Because that didn't get to me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Attorney, though -- well,
for clarification, the ordinance and the resolution, they stand on their
own separately. So if for some reason we didn't like -- and I'm just
talking hypothetically -- we didn't like the resolution, it didn't pass, it
failed or whatever, immaterial. It didn't affect what we just passed
unanimously on the ordinance, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We can have an ordinance that
goes forward, public hearing, we all agree or we disagree.
Resolution is a separate side thing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Like you said, that talks more
about, like, our position on certain things. It's not really, like you
said, more legally -- less legally binding -- not legally binding.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand the process,
which was why I was trying to segregate the two and then have a
discussion with regard to the resolution, but I need a minute to go
through what's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's all yours.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- actually being -- what's
actually being presented because all I have is this one that was given
to me yesterday, so...
I'm going to go off of my one. Has it been verified with regard
to the clinical data, the amount of deaths and adverse cases and those
sort of things that is represented in here? Has this data been
March 28, 2023
Page 114
verified?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not by me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
County Attorney, is the sixth whereas, the continued
experimentation on humans, is that a violation of the Nuremberg
Code?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think that was removed, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, that's good,
because I liked --
COMMISSIONER HALL: That was the other one that was
removed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- that one to be removed as
well.
The seventh whereas -- these aren't numbered, so you'll have to
forgive me. The seventh whereas, I think it is, it says, the global
organization such as the W.H.O. and the WEF, are not those
organizations currently advisory organizations? They have no
regulatory authority.
MR. KLATZKOW: They have no regulatory authority over the
United States, no.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Did we --
COMMISSIONER HALL: That one's not in there, Bill.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's not?
COMMISSIONER HALL: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me. I'm operating
off of the data that was given to me yesterday, so...
COMMISSIONER HALL: There's the comment right there on
the W.H.O.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sir?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I said, that's the comment there on
the W.H.O.
March 28, 2023
Page 115
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, okay. I have a concern
with the representation that the United States and the State of Florida
Constitution is no longer being upheld. I have an issue with that
one. How about the whereas, is the -- is the FDA no longer
requiring pharmaceutical companies to conduct animal testings?
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's true.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That is verified, okay. The
way I read the rest of the whereases, they were just reiterations of the
Constitution of the United States and the State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, did you have
something -- you were lit up. I just didn't know if you --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Can I ask Scott, on the Pfizer
information.
Mr. Kiley.
MR. KILEY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Commissioner McDaniel asked me
if we verified the data --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You have to come to the podium,
sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- on the Pfizer's clinical data on
the whereas, and I said I didn't verify it, but --
MR. KILEY: Yes, I verified it, and also I've shared
it -- Commissioners, respectfully, I've shared it with you, you know, I
think at least twice in emails. You know, we've also provided you
guys with just an incredibly extensive study done by dailyclout.IO.
We gave you their whole book in electronic format. That -- you
know, this -- this data that's compiled in this book is the work of
3,000-plus doctors and scientists and biologists that have poured over
the court-ordered Pfizer documents that were released.
And so, yeah, the data is there. It is in your possession. Thank
you.
March 28, 2023
Page 116
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
Well, if -- and it's not a condition of approval, but it is a concern,
and that's my representing that the Constitution of the United States
and the State of Florida is not being upheld.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm good to strike that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Strike that, and I'll second
your motion for approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I mean, I have some --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, we can go to discussion
as well, but...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, obviously, the ordinance
moving forward goes without saying. We voted on that
unanimously.
I've said before in this seat, regardless of what the topic was, I'm
not a big, you know, supporter of just voting on feel-good things that
do nothing. This resolution, I think, Scott, you know, like you said,
the County Attorney -- and it could -- it's arguable, but, you know,
his opinion is something I think that did have merit.
It starts off very angry and very accusatory. And whether I
agree with that or not, I mean, voting for it means you're signing your
name to every single thing on here. And realistically, to me, I think
the bigger meat on the bone is the ordinance, and I'd rather burn brain
cells on that.
The resolution, to me, is a feel-good thing, walk out the door.
Hey, we think all these things went wrong. And I don't know what it
does. And so it's the similar conversation I had on the 60-day rental
ordinance where I said, you know, half the people at the podium said,
well, you know, it will just make people feel better. You know, this
might make people feel better, but when I read this line to line, there's
some things in here that are more than just feel good. They're very
accusatory. They're arguable. There's people that I respect who
March 28, 2023
Page 117
came to the podium that would disagree with almost every single
thing on here. I'm not saying I 100 percent agree with them or
disagree.
But I -- I just don't know what the benefit is of this resolution.
So I guess I'll ask either Commissioner Hall or anybody who wants to
chime in, why approve this? So approve this, and it does what?
Much like the 60-day ordinance.
You know, the only thing that I voted for that I thought was a
feel-good thing, and it was more because I think I was -- because I
am a veteran and a patriot and -- was the Collier County Bill of
Rights ordinance.
But even then, you know, that was just a reaffirmation of we
support our country, we support the Bill of Rights. You know,
Collier County's going to lead the way.
This is something very different, and there's some things in here
I agree a thousand percent with but, to me, you either agree with all
of this or you don't, because voting for it means we're signing our
name to it, and we're not -- we're not highlighting the things that we
agree with more.
And there's some things that Commissioner McDaniel read in
here that I had highlighted in mine where I thought, you know, I don't
necessarily 100 percent agree but then, more importantly, why?
You know, I think we just unanimously approved the bigger
thing, which is the ordinance moving forward and having
discussions. This resolution does what? If it failed today
unanimously, I really feel like we walk out the door and nothing
changes. If it passed today unanimously, nothing changes. It's just
a matter of putting very, very specific and, in some cases, accusatory
and angry things on paper. And I actually think that this is taking
away from our discussion about the ordinance, which I really think is
the bigger thing.
March 28, 2023
Page 118
So I'm not about just passing feel-good things because, you
know, I got 10 more emails saying I should do it. I'm reading this
word for word, and I have to believe in this, and I actually don't in a
lot of cases. And not because I disagree, but I just -- I don't see the
value in passing this.
And so I throw that out there as a question.
Somebody -- somebody educate me as to why I'm wrong. What is
the value of passing this resolution? I know the value of the
ordinance, and I'm going to burn a lot of brain cells on that, but the
resolution restating these different things, some of them which are
very --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Come on up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- very specific, you know, I need
to hear a little bit more on it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask you what specific
you are having --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, just how you sort of start
out. Like, you know, you said, Commissioner McDaniel, you know,
as you started from the top, you know, you started to feel better the
further down in the document you got. I mean, I might be over
summarizing. But, you know, the thing at the top where we're
saying, you know, even the number of deaths and whatnot. So,
okay, I understand with Mr. Kiley said, you know, hey, that's all been
verified. But I bet I could bring 10 people up here that say it isn't,
and I'm saying -- so that makes it an unknown for me.
But, you know, accusing our government of certain things and
the Constitution, I'm not saying it doesn't have merit, but why? You
know, why do we need to approve this? And I'm asking it as a
question. I'm not -- I'm here trying to decide my position on this. I
never come to this seat with a predetermined position. But as I'm
sitting here reading the latest one, passing this does what?
March 28, 2023
Page 119
Doc?
DR. YIACHOS: So I think the biggest thing we're trying to
accomplish with both pieces here is to codify that local control is
superior to federal or state control when things are being done that we
don't want done. And, granted, right now we're not worried about
mandates, right, but that's going to change. It might change next
week. It might change two weeks later. Some new bug that comes
out of a China lab's going to come our way, and the same people that
benefited from this scare are going to be doing the same stuff to us
because we didn't step up to put things in place to stop that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But don't you think the ordinance
does that? This is my summary of this. And like I said, I'm being a
little bit more, I don't want to say hypothetical, but I want to drive to
a decision I feel good about, not just sort of keep score with how
many emails I got.
I think the ordinance does that. I look at this resolution -- and I
might be oversimplifying this. This to me seems like a summary of
what happened and why we were so upset about it.
And like you said, Commissioner McDaniel, some things
happened that we had little control over and then -- or little
knowledge of, and then months later, of course, you know, new
information came, and it was like, wow, we made the wrong decision
at the right time with the information we had, but we didn't have a
crystal ball so, you know, there was some of that.
But I look at the resolution as all the things we're upset about
that happened that we want to make sure doesn't happen again, but
then I look at the ordinance and I think, everything you just said, I
agree with it a thousand percent. That's why I want to be back in
this room talking about the ordinance. It actually legally does
something, as our County Attorney said.
This resolution here seems like a -- you know, like a kid that's
March 28, 2023
Page 120
got a chip on their shoulder and they want to put something in writing
to sort of get the last word, and it feels a little bit that way to me.
And I want to hear from people who disagree with that assessment as
to what the benefit would be.
Again, you know, I go back to my initial question: What would
be the benefit of this? I don't see the two documents as going hand
in hand. I see this as being a nice narrative but the ordinance as
being more of the legalese, the meat on the bone, and that's why I
think we voted on that one so quickly, because we all agree with that.
But this resolution, to me, just seemed sort of like a summary of
all the things we're upset about. And I'm upset about a lot of these
things on here, but, you know, being a resolution and just talking
about it are two different things.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Kiley has a
good purpose for the resolution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Great. That's what we're here for.
I'll listen to anybody.
MR. KILEY: So, Commissioner LoCastro, to your point
about -- oh, I think you called the resolution "feel good."
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Uh-huh.
MR. KILEY: Okay. So what I'd like to do -- Attorney
Klatzkow, can you read, please, No. 7 from the ordinance?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're not talking about the
ordinance.
MR. KILEY: Well, I know we're not talking about the
ordinance, but this is an important point that will dovetail directly --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Because --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. KILEY: -- with the resolution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We just voted on it unanimously.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
March 28, 2023
Page 121
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I want to know why you want my
signature on this.
MR. KILEY: And it's going to answer that question, perfectly,
if you would, sir.
MR. KLATZKOW: You want me to read --
MR. KILEY: Number 7.
MR. KLATZKOW: Section 7, vaccinations.
MR. KILEY: Section 7, correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: Section 7 is vaccination mandates for
Collier County employees. Unless required by law, Collier County
shall not impose any vaccination mandate for any Collier County
employee without the unanimous vote by the Board.
MR. KILEY: Okay. So there you go, gentlemen. The Collier
County employees, right? They have legislation that gives them the
option for no mandates. Am I reading that correctly? Am I hearing
that correctly?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. What this does is that this board will
not impose vaccination mandates on its employees.
MR. KILEY: Okay. That's great. So what about the rest of
the public?
MR. KLATZKOW: It has nothing to do with the rest of the
public.
MR. KILEY: It does not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No.
MR. KLATZKOW: It does not.
MR. KILEY: And so in the resolution, Point No. 1, no
mandates, you see, we want that same right. We want the same
benefit that you guys are willing to give county employees. And so
the resolution, for us, is a baby step that allows us to marshal activists
across the county and across the state and make meaningful change to
combat the tyranny that's coming. And we have to -- we have to get
March 28, 2023
Page 122
offensive. It is time that we get on the front side of this. We cannot
sit back and play defense.
It's obvious that's what's coming with the World Health
Organization and what they're contemplating. The level of tyranny
has only just begun. Gentlemen, you're giving us -- you're giving us
a -- and I don't mean to be disrespectful, because it is what it is, and
it's nothing against this Board, but it is a -- it's a thin lifeline in which
to move forward and make things better for Collier County citizens.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But why not just put the things in
the resolution that you feel are missing in the ordinance in the
ordinance? Why am I passing -- because here's something I'm not
comfortable with, okay. First line, whereas our federal and state
health agencies have demonstrated a clear inability to be truthful,
transparent, and consistent in protecting the citizens of Collier
County. That's pretty definite.
My opinion is, yeah, in some cases you're 100 percent right, but
I mean, that makes -- that's written like it's 100 percent.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, you know, that's one that
I -- and there again, we could sit here and go back and forth and
happy to glad, you know, this thing. You know, let's change this
word. Let's take out this. I just think the ordinance is where the
meat is on the bone. If there's something that the ordinance -- like
you said, it only protects county workers. The ordinance can be
written any way that we want. Why two documents -- I don't look at
these documents as being complementary. I almost see them
redundant in places, and I see things in the resolution, I think, that are
unnecessary and might be feel good to people that I definitely agree
with that COVID wasn't handled well and all that. Nobody has an
argument with that from me. I just wonder, what is this resolution
going to accomplish? I mean, I sound like a broken record. And if
March 28, 2023
Page 123
it's going to accomplish that, there's things in the ordinance that
are -- that don't protect the citizens of Collier County, and that's what
we need the resolution for, then why not just take some of the
verbiage out of the resolution and put it in the ordinance and have a
better document?
MR. KILEY: You know, that's a good question. When I came
forward with this strategy --
MR. KLATZKOW: I can answer that question: Because you
don't have the authority to do a lot of the stuff in the resolution. It
would be unlawful.
MR. KILEY: That's exactly right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's another reason why I've got
a problem with it.
MR. KILEY: That's why it's not --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. KLATZKOW: The ordinance is narrowly tailored, right?
The resolution is broad.
MR. KILEY: Commissioner LoCastro, when I came forward
with this strategy and I met with Attorney Klatzkow, we worked
together to form a strategy that did not have any preemption issues.
And so that is why we have the two, and that is why the elements in
the resolution that, as I described earlier, are aspirational in nature,
okay. Rights that we believe are God-given human rights that we
wish to -- we aspire to make changes in the state statutes that do not
reflect and actually are against our constitutional rights and our
God-given rights. That is the purpose of the resolution.
And the strategy that we -- that we've laid out is really essential
for the Board in that the ordinance follows state statutes, and it does
not have preemption issues. And that was a key stumbling block
early on. And the resolution is not legally binding. And so, again,
it is a statement of aspiration that allows us to move forward and say,
March 28, 2023
Page 124
hey, these things can be better. Let's make them better.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, part of my conversation
here is to generate some conversation here. I don't -- you know, I'm
not a commissioner that says, yeah, I agree with 75 percent of it.
Okay. All in favor? Aye. Move on.
I mean, I want to feel -- I respect my signature and the citizens I
represent, even the ones that I disagree with and the ones that
disagree with me. But, you know, I sit here and read, whereas -- you
know, we all just came back from Tallahassee. A lot of great things
happening in Tallahassee, a whole bunch of things that have nothing
to do with COVID that are going to make our county better. I'm
sitting here saying, you're asking me to sign something that says
whereas our United States -- our United States and Florida State
Constitution is no longer being upheld and, as a result, Collier
County citizens are being harmed. All five County Commissioners
here think -- agree with that statement in its totality?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, we already took it out.
MR. KILEY: Took it out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, that's the one that's sitting
on -- the one on today's agenda, so...
MR. KILEY: Mr. -- Commissioner LoCastro, is it possible?
Is it possible? You know, I was here when we evaluated the CDC
grant that was returned.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. KILEY: And there were -- there were changes made on
the fly right here. Take that out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We did.
MR. KILEY: Take that out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So on the fly here, we took
out, based on the conversation we were having here, looking at, you
know, two or three different versions, the Florida state constitution
March 28, 2023
Page 125
one, correct? Is that what you're telling me? That was part of the
discussion you-all were having when you were comparing the old and
the new, right? That's one of the whereases that got taken out?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I believe it has. We haven't
voted on anything yet.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank goodness.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's where --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'd just like to see the most
current version.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm thinking that maybe we
ought to --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I've got an idea.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hear from him, and then I'll
give my idea if it's not better.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So in the first one, in the first one
we can say, whereas, our federal and state agencies have not
demonstrated, strike "a clear inability to be truthful," but have not
demonstrated transparency and consistent in protecting the citizens of
Collier County. I think we can agree on that.
And in No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -- in No. 6, whereas, if global
organizations such as the World Health Organization were to subvert
the Constitution -- in the Constitution, then these resolutions
will -- then we can put that in there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you think the numbers on the
Pfizer numbers are worth actually quoting the exact numbers there?
Because unless we have, you know -- I mean, I understand what
Mr. --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I could strike that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- Kiley is saying, but -- and I'm
just wondering what the value is. You know, you could make that
March 28, 2023
Page 126
one hold its weight without sitting here -- because also, too, when we
put something in there, we run the risk of people challenging it and
saying, it's not 12,023, and where'd you get -- and I think the bigger
statement we're trying to make in there isn't so much about the
numbers. I mean, we know there are numbers. They're not zero.
But it's -- it's being a little bit more -- I guess having a little bit better
verbiage that really covers it in its entirety without being overly
specific and then too accusatory or the ability to be challenged, you
know, more easily.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, the whereas clause is
preparatory. You can eliminate all of them if you want and then just
get to the heart of the resolution after the "now therefore be it
resolved."
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this. We've done
this here before -- and I've got some commissioners lit up. But I
don't love doing things on the fly like this. I like seeing the piece of
paper, and what we've done in previous meetings before is, when we
thought we were close, we moved on to other topics, and then we've
brought this back and had somebody go outside the room and type
this correctly so we know what we're voting on, and we don't all have
five different versions here, and we're doing it on the fly.
This is very important. I'd rather not do this on the fly. But if
everybody thinks we can edit this on the fly, then I'm the lone voice.
But we've done that before where we've gotten -- we've moved
forward with the remaining business of the county and made this our
last thing.
Does anybody have an appetite for that since we seem to be
going around with multiple versions?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I agree with you,
Mr. Chairman. That was -- as a matter of fact, I was getting ready to
say that.
March 28, 2023
Page 127
I'd like to see the final draft. We've taken some out -- some
whereases out. Perhaps Commissioner Hall can work with someone
in the County Attorney's Office for a few minutes and come back
with another draft that addresses those concerns. But I think you're
right, we need to -- we need to have a final draft so we know what
we're voting on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, it's a three-page document,
and the last two pages don't require much editing. It's really Page 1
that we're -- oh, that was just taken out two seconds ago, and, you
know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Three.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- I'd like to -- three seconds ago?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. There are other
concerns. I haven't got to Pages 3 and 4 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, and then all the more reason,
so --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- where I have issues.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So then let me give you the floor,
sir, and, you know, let's address those concerns, and then if -- you
know, I mean, we're here. We've got all the right people here. I'm
not a big fan of kicking the can and saying everybody come back in a
month so that we can look at a document that has three new sentences
in it. But what I would like is give you the floor, and then if it looks
like we're heading in a certain direction, we've got time. It's 1:47.
We can do other things and, with the right people here, put together a
document that we are proud of.
Commissioner McDaniel, the floor is yours, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did you unlight? Because
you were ahead of me.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I turned it off because I got --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. On Page 3, No. 3,
March 28, 2023
Page 128
informed consent without interference. I have an issue with "the
information intentionally or unintentionally." If we could take out
the words "intentionally" with regard to that sentence, I can get
happier with that whole process.
Number 5, I think if we were to just put a period, which it is, at
the end of "Human rights are given by God and these rights are
protected by the U.S. Constitution and the State of Florida's
Constitution," and not reiterate all of those other things that are
suppositions out of the 9th and 10th amendment with regard to
interference by these other organizations. I think that would be a
clearer statement that we just are acknowledging that the rights are
given to us -- or they're God-given rights, and we don't have to
exemplify it.
Number 6, I feel like we're mandating impositions of thought or
premise -- preference on pharmaceuticals and medical institutions.
There are medical institutions and pharmacists that are out here that
don't concur with our thought processes, and I have just as much
concern about imposing my thoughts and wishes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Which one are you on?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Page 4 of 4.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Number 4?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And No. 6 and the right to
not refuse care. I think if a pharmaceutical or medical institution
chooses to refuse care, for whatever reason, then they have that
much -- they have that -- as much of a right to that refusal of care as I
do to tell them that they can't.
Number 7, the County Attorney's already said that the
mental -- the mental health aspects of this are already preempted by
state law with regard to the Baker Act, if I'm not -- did I understand
you correctly, sir?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir.
March 28, 2023
Page 129
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So having that's
contradictory to statute, so I really wouldn't rather see that.
Number 8, I'm totally okay with vaccine passports, but
health -- there again, I feel like I'm dictating policy to private
business holders or people to be prohibiting access based upon health
and -- vaccine passports is one thing, but someone's -- if someone
actually does have a transmittable disease, I feel like a business or a
person in our community should have the right to refuse that -- that
citizen into their premise.
And then No. 9, there again, citizens -- patients have the right
for a medical advocate, but the next statement that says "hospitals
must," that's where -- and, again, I full well know that there's really
no enforceability with a resolution, but Commissioner LoCastro
brings up a very valid point. In premise, we're in favor of doing
something here, but when I start dictating policy to private
individuals or private institutions, I take exception to it just as
if -- just as if it was being dictated to me that I had to do certain
things by the government.
So my thoughts are, just take out the sentence "hospitals must
recognize the power of attorney." They already do if they choose
to -- if they choose to. They're supposed to, but -- and then No. 10,
the question I had was for the unlawful force of the quarantine. It's
been represented, County Attorney, that the government could still
impose a quarantine.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. The federal and state government
has sovereignty. They could do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I would think that the state has
sovereignty over the federal government.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. Civil -- with all due respect, the civil
war ended that. The federal government is supreme. The federal
March 28, 2023
Page 130
government is the supreme law of the land.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So it No. 10 -- is No. 10
lawfully correct with --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I worry it violates the Constitution.
Sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's okay. Don't be sorry.
We're -- there again, we've already had this discussion. We don't
get -- we don't get to talk about these things until you all are here and
Terri's down here writing down all my misspoken words.
Number 10, is that a correct statement in law with regard to the
quarantine?
MR. KLATZKOW: It is absolutely nonbinding.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So those are my
other -- those are my other thoughts that I had from the old rendition
of what was given to me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to say something a little
more generic. I'm not going to give you a line-item veto of all the
things that are on here. I'm going to just make a generic statement,
and then I think it's important for the folks that drafted this and
believe in it and have spent a lot of time on it with us -- I mean, you
can decide you want to come back at another meeting or take
advantage of the time we have here. You know, you're not rewriting
the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence here. You
know, we're not building the Empire State Building.
I would expect you could wordsmith this. So here's the generic
thing I would say, because I'm not going to line-item veto it. I just
want you to hear my generic statement and, as you read this, have my
thoughts in the back of your head if you want me to support this.
This comes off as very angry. And that's not -- that's
not -- we're all very angry. I sat out in that audience for a year and a
half as a candidate and didn't like a lot of the things that were decided
March 28, 2023
Page 131
up here. Some were decided with bad info by good people. Some
were decided by people who were passionate about a thing -- you
know, a certain decision that I, a thousand percent, disagreed with.
But I'd like this resolution to evoke leadership and proactiveness
and be much more positive. I don't think I need to reiterate the
things that happened a year ago that the government didn't do right.
I think the ordinance is what we're trying to get passed to not make
the same mistakes that happened. But I don't think we need to, you
know, have a resolution that the bulk of it just sort of reminds
everyone or rubs their nose in it to a certain extent.
So I think as, you know, a professional, as I read this and
something that I'm going to put my John Hancock on, there's things
in here that I think are less -- are worded less than professional -- and
we've taken some of those out -- less than professionally, and it's not
a document that -- and it's in its totality -- exudes leadership and, you
know, proactiveness and even some positivity. And it doesn't mean
that -- some of these statements that talk about some of the negative
things that have happened. But I think at least hearing that, if you
care what my position is, I think you could sit down in a quiet room
somewhere and read through these and figure out the two or three
words that are a little over the top, a little too much.
And I would end this by saying, let's spend this much time or
more on the ordinance when we come back here, because that's the
actual thing. That's the -- this is frosting, and -- but it's still
important, because I don't want to sign something that I think is
throwing spears at certain things that are either dusty and old and
don't need to be rehashed or are arguable.
But the ordinance is the thing that I think is -- that I know,
especially what the County Attorney's educating us is that's a thing
that has more meat on the bone.
So I just think as I read this here, I don't think I need to, you
March 28, 2023
Page 132
know, rehash certain things in here that are either arguable or not
really worth the paper that it's printed on. It's like, okay, so that
statement might be true, but, you know, does it need to be in writing
in an ordinance dated 2023?
And by our own admission here, we've already taken out a few
things that I think were worthy of taking out. There's a few more
verbiage things in here that I think are unneeded, and you could
still -- you could still leave in these sentences to get the point across
without sort of trying to be over the top when it's unnecessary,
because then it takes away from the professionalism and the
leadership that I think we want to lead with here in Collier County,
and it makes it a little bit more personal than it needed to be, is what I
would say, so...
DR. CHAMBERS: Along those lines, could I say something,
sir?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
DR. CHAMBERS: This is exactly what -- when you were
saying in the beginning, why the resolution, it's the difference
between -- and you'll understand this, and you'll understand
this -- taking an oath, swearing an oath to a constitution, or oath of
honor, or our oath to the Constitution, we swear that. That would be
the ordinance. That's law, and that's what we do.
But there's -- there are certain things within the units at the
lower level that are not codified. But as a ranger, recognizing that I
volunteered as a ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen
profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the honor, prestige, and
esprit de corps of my ranger regiment. It goes on. The Special
Forces creed as well. That's a creed. It's not codified.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
DR. CHAMBERS: But it's what I use, and it's what I teach my
soldiers to use on the battlefield when they're out there to maintain
March 28, 2023
Page 133
that sense of honor and to have all those things lined out which keep
us with our left and right limits and understanding our backstops and
where we are as Americans. I believe that that's the importance of
that other piece of paper.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But, you know, what you just said,
Colonel, I agree with it a thousand percent, but everything that you
just said, right -- and, yeah, we get it, but we all get it up here, you
know. And I think nowadays you don't necessarily have to wear the
uniform, although it brings you a lot closer to it.
Everything you just said was said with professionalism and
leadership, okay. I know, like you said, the codified codes of
conduct and all the things -- you know, you talked about SERE
training. I've been to SERE. So people don't even know what
you're talking about here. I've been there. I did the POW camp and
all that.
So those codified things is like what you just said is in the
ordinance. This is -- this is more of, like you said -- as you were
trying to compare it to things in the Army. But everything you just
said that was in your, I guess, Army -- or Marine Corps -- you're in
the Marine Corp, right, sir?
DR. CHAMBERS: Ranger.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ranger.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or I mean, Ranger. Sorry, that
was the other marine who was here. I'm Air Force. So it's Air
Force, then everybody else.
Although, you're right, I don't know what the Space Force is
doing. You and I -- I got you on that one.
But I love what you just said, because it was professional. It
was said with leadership. Every single word that you just said in
that oath and that direction and that mantra was said with
professionalism. If you want my support on this, I want this written
March 28, 2023
Page 134
by somebody that has that same kind of passion, depth, leadership,
integrity. There's some lines in here that are more angry than they
need to be. This should inspire people. It shouldn't remind people
of all the missteps that happened a year ago. I think everybody
knows that.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, they don't.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, this should do more than just
remind them of that. It should be both.
And I think this document definitely has merit. I think you can
get the verbiage a little closer to what he just said, which was a little
bit more of -- you know, a little less of sort of spear throwing and a
little more of reminding. What did somebody just say, some people
need to be reminded. There's a -- there's different ways to do it.
This is just my own personal opinion. We're close, and I think
it would behoove having all the experts in here that, as we move
forward, go into one of the private rooms here, maybe with
Commissioner Hall or bring something back, and if by the end of the
day we can have something, you know, we're all more satisfied with.
But, you know, we're going to have to have this same deep discussion
on the ordinance, because that's going to be something that has a lot
of the, like you said, codified, you know, documents in it.
MR. KILEY: For sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But that guy should be on your
small team here, because that passion and also that integrity and
whatnot, I like to still see that in county documents.
MR. KILEY: For sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm not here to throw spears. I'm
here to be a leader and here to be respectful.
MR. KILEY: Yes, yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Even on things that I'm angry
about.
March 28, 2023
Page 135
MR. KILEY: Well, Commissioner, if I could make a comment,
please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir, and then I'm going to go
to the commissioners here. They're all lit up. Go ahead, sir.
MR. KILEY: I hear what you're saying. I agree with what
you're saying. I think that the whereases are, as you described, a
little angry. You said I'm angry; I'm angry. I think a lot of citizens
are angry. But that's okay. I agree, let's stay professional. You
know, at the end of the day, we want to use this to make positive
change. So what I would ask you to do, take the whereases out, all
of them. As Attorney Klatzkow said, let's start right from "now,
therefore be it resolved." It focuses directly on the meat and
potatoes of the resolution.
Commissioner McDaniel, you voiced an opposition under
informed consent with regard to "unintentional"; let's strike that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep.
MR. KILEY: And I believe we have something that is
professional, that is positive, that we can move forward with.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I like that because I
think -- we're trying to find balance here.
MR. KILEY: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, we're trying to
move -- and also, too, folks that are on the fence or maybe that aren't
here and they're not sure what they believe, we're trying to also
explain and convince the citizens that maybe don't have as much
knowledge as us and not make them more angry but have them sort
of understand what happened, what didn't happen. And so people
that know very little about this topic, I want them to read this
resolution and not all of a sudden be even more angry.
MR. KILEY: I agree.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They may even disagree with it.
March 28, 2023
Page 136
And to your point, sir, when you said, let's start at the "now,
therefore," like I said, I'm not here to line-item veto it, but I can tell
you when I get to the part that says "now, therefore," everything
below it, I start to really like that stuff. And the things above, even
though I don't disagree with some of them, I just don't think they're
necessary.
MR. KILEY: I agree entirely. I think your point -- I think you
make a great point.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So that's just my thought.
I'm going to go to commissioners now. Commissioner Kowal,
and then, Commissioner McDaniel, you're on deck, and then
Commissioner Hall.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
Yeah, I kind of agree with my fellow Commissioner LoCastro
because, you know, if I sign -- if I raise -- you know, I vote for this
resolution, I mean, this is saying that I agree with every one of these
whereas points, and some of them here I -- you know, they're not my
words and, you know, my word is to the people.
And I think this can all be summarized in probably a
well-written paragraph to a point where it just says that us moving on
as a body, for the citizens of Collier County, that we will always take
the people's constitutional rights in every situation that's brought
before us and always make a decision using constitutionality in
making those decisions to protect those rights and the sovereignty of
the State of Florida and not allow outside entities to have the ability
to interfere with that sovereignty.
And this probably could be written up -- because those are my
words and the way I feel -- and not so much have a lot of these things
that -- you know, and we were talking about weapons. You know, I
carried a weapon for 28 years, but it was used for good, you know.
March 28, 2023
Page 137
There's not always -- you know, the soldiers in this room can vouch
on that, you know. It's a way of life sometimes.
But I don't know about -- I wouldn't use my words in this
particular paragraph as a weapon, you know. That's somebody's
opinion. I've been exposed to a biological weapon, anthrax, before
that was used with intent to hurt people or kill people. And when
you talk about weapons and you talk about weapons to be used for
hurting people, then you have to understand what the intent is. And
I don't see that. I don't see the intent laid out for me in this particular
paragraph.
So, yeah, I have a hard time with some of the things in here.
And like I said, I hope we can just come together and probably have a
nice condensed well-written paragraph better than I can express it,
but I think basically the way I feel about it is that we can say that
moving on, and myself, that I will always use the litmus test of our
constitution when deciding anything that affects the citizens of
Collier County and that would violate them moving forward.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agreed.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, and then
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm going to -- I have
two things that I want to say out loud. I mean, there's a lot of tape
here and discussion with regard to concerns, representations,
statements, the way things are said.
My suggestion is, we're going to hear that resolution -- or,
excuse me, we're going to hear the ordinance at our next meeting.
Why don't we continue the resolution for and until that date and vote
on them both then with any final adjustments that are necessary. I
can tell you, on the draft of the ordinance that I have in front of me,
there are -- there are things that I have concerns with that we're not
March 28, 2023
Page 138
going to get into today for and until we actually vote on it. I can
share with those -- I can share those with you off-line.
But I just -- my thought is rather than -- you know, I was asked
to wordsmith this and go through this, which I then found out was
three renditions later of what's actually being brought forward today.
So my suggestion is -- I'll be happy to hear the ordinance and have
discussion about it, but my suggestion is let's continue the resolution
aspect of today's vote and work on that when we actually hear the
ordinance.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I would concur with that because,
like I said, I don't want to have a rush to judgment. I don't want to
do something on the fly. This is a document that needs to stand the
test of time.
But, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I agree. I would love to clean up
the language. I didn't like the tone of it, and that's why I used the
terms "accusatory" and "assumptive," but we can do that, then. I
loved what Commissioner Kowal said, the opening paragraph. Just
remember that. Remember what you said so we can include that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did you write that down?
Because I wasn't listening.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Terri did.
But, no, just one statement like that. We'll clean up the
language where we can -- where it doesn't sound angry and mean,
and we can use this resolution to be leaders in the state from Collier
County where we can educate others. This is where -- this is where
we want to go. And, you know, every crowd needs a leader, and I
would like to see Collier County be that one. So, I'm all about -- I'll
make --
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll make the motion to table this to
March 28, 2023
Page 139
clean the language up and bring it back when we look at the
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've got a motion and a
second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And it's for you, Doc. Or
you, Doc. How do you feel about Remdesivir?
DR. YIACHOS: I thought I was pretty clear about that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You were.
DR. YIACHOS: There's a reason why people call it "run, death
is near," right? So the amount of kidney damage that it creates and
the amount of death that occurs shortly after getting Remdesivir
therapy, statistically, it's crazy that it's still being used.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I got it. How do you feel
about Paxlovid?
DR. YIACHOS: I think it's probably not doing anything.
Whatever minimization it does of symptoms it seems that things
recur the moment you stop it so, therefore, the solution is continue it
longer.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I just -- and --
DR. YIACHOS: And as a class, those inhibitors that were used
in the past during the HIV era causes a lot of harm long term.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Long term.
DR. YIACHOS: And I don't hear anybody talking about that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, there hasn't been a long
term yet, necessarily. And for folks to know and understand, how
many know my mum's in the hospital right now.
And from a personal standpoint, my mother was treated with
Remdesivir 10 days ago. I'm struggling with that. My brother had
March 28, 2023
Page 140
COVID, a four-time -- a four-tour marine -- four-tour marine. My
brother was treated with Paxlovid, who also had COVID.
So you know the struggle is real for your decision makers.
Credence is being taken for what you're sharing on both sides. I
don't mean to segregate the folks. But I just want you to know that
there's real struggles going on with the representations and the things
that are being said, and that's one of the reasons why we want it to be
right. Got it?
Okay. My comments are done. You can call for your vote.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we've got a motion and
a second to kick this to the next meeting, tighten up the verbiage, and
we will --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think continue. Continue.
"Kick" is a little aggressive.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't know. This has all been
about aggression. See what it did to me? See how negatively I've
been affected?
Somebody give me a hug at 2:30 at the break. I'm going to
need it.
But we're going to continue this in the next meeting, and we're
not delaying anything. You know, I like to always highlight
this -- and we just -- when we were in Tallahassee and talking about
the veterans nursing home, we're talking about sliding the timeline.
And, you know, we were all very clear with everyone in Tallahassee.
We're not delaying anything. We want to make sure this is correct.
We want to be proud of this.
You know, to Commissioner Hall's point -- and we've said it in
here before -- I don't want to just copy what other counties do. We'll
know we got it right when they're copying what we did and not
mocking it or what have you.
So we've got a motion on the floor to continue this to the next
March 28, 2023
Page 141
meeting with better verbiage, healthy discussion, and it gives more
citizens a chance to come and speak about it as well.
Motion and a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. KILEY: Commissioner LoCastro, can I make one last
comment?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No.
MR. KILEY: No?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, go ahead.
MR. KILEY: No. Listen, first, I just want to say thank you to
all the commissioners. And, you know, what I like about this, as
much as I wanted to see something get passed today, is I think that
getting the input from each of the commissioners, really, you guys
taking the time to, you know, reach into your heart and to really come
forward with, you know, what you've seen over the last three years,
and, you know, add your own thoughts and your own wording, and
we'll work together to refine this so that it is really, you know, a
resolution that we intend to go county to county, right, and strength in
unity, and improve statutes in the state and really allow Collier
County to be the beacon of freedom for Florida. We can do that.
So thank you guys.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep, thank you.
And I would encourage people that feel -- regardless of what
side you're on the aisle on, you know, share your thoughts with us,
March 28, 2023
Page 142
not just a bunch of angry emails, you know, saying vote yes, vote no,
you screwed up today, you did great today. You know, we're trying
to have a professional discussion and lead from Collier County.
So we've got time to do that between now and the next meeting
and, you know, I know all of us welcome citizens sending us things,
coming to speak with us, calling us on the phone, because we want
the best document possible and, you know, we've all decided
collectively and unanimously to move forward to continue that
discussion.
Okay. County Manager, what's next?
Item #9B
RESOLUTION 2023-57: A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PROPOSING COUNTY-
INITIATED AMENDMENTS TO THE COLLIER COUNTY
GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN, ORDINANCE 89-05, AS
AMENDED, TO ADDRESS HOUSING INITIATIVES TO ALLOW
AFFORDABLE HOUSING BY RIGHT IN CERTAIN
COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICTS WITH A SUNSET DATE;
TO INCREASE DENSITY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING; TO
ESTABLISH A STRATEGIC OPPORTUNITY SITES
SUBDISTRICT; AND TO INCREASE DENSITY FOR
AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS ALONG COLLIER AREA
TRANSIT ROUTES; SPECIFICALLY AMENDING THE FUTURE
LAND USE ELEMENT AND FUTURE LAND USE MAP;
GOLDEN GATE CITY SUB-ELEMENT OF GOLDEN GATE
AREA MASTER PLAN ELEMENT AND FUTURE LAND USE
MAP; THE IMMOKALEE AREA MASTER PLAN ELEMENT
AND FUTURE LAND USE MAP; AND ADDING A POLICY TO
THE TRANSPORTATION ELEMENT PERTAINING TO
March 28, 2023
Page 143
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ALONG TRANSIT ROUTES; AND
FURTHERMORE DIRECTING TRANSMITTAL OF THESE
AMENDMENTS TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. [PL20210000660] (ALL
DISTRICTS) RESOLUTION 2023-57: MOTION TO APPROVE
ALL 4 INITIATIVES AND EXCLUDE C-4 AND C-5 FOR
CONVERSION BY RIGHT BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - APPROVED
(COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 9B. This item was continued from
the June 28th, 2022, and July 12th, 2022, BCC meetings. This is a
resolution of the Board of County Commissioners proposing
county-initiated amendments to the Collier County Growth
Management Plan, Ordinance 89-05, as amended, to address housing
initiatives to allow affordable housing by right in certain commercial
zoning districts with a sunset date; to increase density for affordable
housing; to establish a Strategic Opportunity Site Subdistrict; and to
increase density for affordable housing projects along Collier Area
Transit routes; specifically amending the Future Land Use Element
and Future Land Use Map, Golden Gate City Sub-Element of Golden
Gate Area Master Plan Element and Future Land Use Map; the
Immokalee Area Master Plan Element and Future Land Use Map;
and adding a policy to the Transportation Element pertaining to
affordable housing along transit routes; and furthermore, directing
transmittal of these amendments to the Florida Department of
Economic Opportunity.
Mr. Mike Bosi, your director of Planning and Zoning, is here to
present.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Before Mr. Bosi speaks, I
want to give the floor to Commissioner McDaniel.
March 28, 2023
Page 144
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just one point of
clarification: Are we going to receive a report on the rock crushing
job today in person?
MS. PATTERSON: No, I don't believe so today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. Well, because
there were representatives here. Mr. Hubschman's nephew was right
there. I just would like to -- if our staff -- if you see
anybody -- Jaime, if you see anybody here from that project, they
thought that they had to come back today for another report, and I
just don't want them to be here.
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Jaime sent us a detailed
report recently. So I think that was good.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We got the report, but there
was a representative from the project here who was here this
morning, and I told him to come back after lunch because I thought
we were having -- but then I remembered it was on the consent
agenda, and he doesn't need to stay.
Thank you. Forgive me for interrupting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, Chair.
Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
We're here today for the transmittal hearings of the GMP
amendments for housing that is affordable.
Troy, this doesn't seem to want to advance for me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's a sign.
MR. BOSI: Just for our two newest commissioners, just a
history lesson. Urban Land Institute developed the Community
Housing Plan for Collier County. In March of 2016, the Board
directed staff to develop a cohesive plan to meet the affordable
housing needs of the county. They basically came together with a
March 28, 2023
Page 145
35-member stakeholder group to meet, research, and discuss options
that could be utilized to encourage development of affordable
housing, brought in the Urban Land Institute in January of 2017.
October of 2017, BCC reviewed, accepted the Collier Housing
Plan, made recommendations to move forward. And in February of
2018 suggested solutions were presented for the BCC to consider,
and staff began implementation of those recommendations.
What you see on the screen is all the recommendations that
came from that housing plan. A number of them -- the light green
were the areas where the Board had at one point in time approved
action from the staff to take up some of those suggestions.
The bottom portion were individual initiatives that were not
supported by the Board, so those were left as they are, and then the
darker green were suggestions that were suggested by the housing
plan, wasn't initiated by the Board, but was approved by the Board at
a later date for wage increases for staff, but then also the Florida
voters raising minimum wage.
And what we're here today to talk about are the last four
initiatives. The last four initiatives -- and these we were the ones
where the Board had a little -- lukewarm feelings on, but they've
directed staff to move forward with them.
And the first is streamline commercial-to-residential
conversions. The second is initiate -- or incentivize mixed-use
income housing in future redevelopment activity centers.
And one of the things I wanted to point out, those two particular
suggestions deal with commercial property, commercial zoning
property, as well as the second -- or the third one, create strategic
opportunity sites. That's -- when you have high employment
opportunity sites, allow for higher density housing to provide for
workforce needs, another of those initiatives that deal with
commercial zoning. And then, finally, increase density along the
March 28, 2023
Page 146
transit corridors.
And one of the -- one of the things that I would like to point out,
as I said, three of the four of these initiatives deal with commercial
zoning. What happened last Friday was the state took our ideas,
copied our ideas, and implemented a plan, the Live Local Act, which
was passed -- it was passed 40 to nothing in the Senate and 106 to 3
in the House. So it was a bipartisan bill.
But here's what it does: It requires counties and municipalities
to authorize multifamily and mixed-use residential as allowable uses
in any zone that's -- any area zoned for commercial or mixed use if at
least 40 percent of the residential units in a proposed multifamily
rental development are for a period of at least 30 years, and that's as
defined by the statutes. That could be up to 120 percent.
It prohibits the county from requiring the proposed multifamily
development to get a zoning or a land-use change, special exception
conditional-use approval, variance or Comprehensive Plan
amendment for the building height, zoning, and density.
So what that's saying is it eliminates the requirement, and it
eliminates the ability for a public hearing. It takes the NIMBY-ism
out of it. What it does mean is that these projects, if they meet these
criteria, if they have 40 percent established towards affordable
housing and it's provided for within a 30-year period, then it goes
straight to Site Development Plan.
Here's the portions that is somewhat concerning from the
Planning and Zoning Department. It prohibits the county or
municipality from restricting the density of a proposed development
authorized under these subsections below the highest allowed density
on county unincorporated land where residential development is
allowed. Right now that's 92 units an acre. So what that means is a
project that is providing for 40 percent of their units dedicated to at
least 120 of AMI is eligible for 92 units per acre without a public
March 28, 2023
Page 147
hearing.
Another component of it is prohibit a county or a municipality
from restricting the height of a proposed development authorized
under these subsections below the highest currently allowed height
for commercial or residential development in its jurisdiction within
one mile of the proposed development or three stories, whichever is
greater.
So what the state did is the state kind of undercut our GMP
amendments. They said, by right, if you provide for 40 percent of
your units to affordable housing, you're eligible up to 92 units per
acre. Now, unless you have a structure that's pretty high in terms of
close proximity within that one mile, your development standards,
you're not going to be able to fit 92 units per acre in a two- or a
three- or a four-story profile.
But what it's saying is that we, as a county, accept, and we take
it straight to Site Development Plan.
So the proposals I'm going to talk about from a GMP standpoint
that we're proposing we don't have as great allowance -- we're not
giving that much density away, and we require higher percentages to
be targeted to your lower and your moderate level incomes.
So the one thing I will say, what the state has done is they've
created a much more enticing route for a development to go forward
compared to these GMP amendments that I'm going to describe.
Now, these GMP amendments that I'm describing that we're
proposing for adoption or for transmittal, I believe that they still have
some value. I believe that they signify that the county has been
working on a plan to finalize that -- the ULI plan of 2017 with the
last of the recommendations.
And the first -- the first two that we're going to talk about is
underneath that conversion of commercial to residential and
commercial -- and commercial mixed-use by right. We currently
March 28, 2023
Page 148
have in the GMP a commercial mixed-use subdistrict, but it's not a
mixed use by right. It has to go through a public-hearing process.
And what we've done and what you can see at the top, it says,
existing compared to proposed. The existing allows for up to 11
DUs per acre to move forward through a public-hearing process.
And we're -- we're proposing to modify it based upon the increased
affordable housing density bonus to go to 15 units per acre, and it
does not require a public hearing. And this is on
commercial -- Commercial 1, Commercial 2, and Commercial 3
zoned properties.
And at the -- at the bottom you can see we've got -- also have an
expansion of this. Currently, the C-4 and the C-5 properties are not
included within this -- the current subdistrict. We're proposing to
not only make it by right but to also allow for the mixed-use by right
with affordable housing within the C-4 and the C-5 properties, and
those can get up to 16 units per acre, and no public hearing is
required.
The second is the conversion of commercial to residential
subdistrict, and that allows for any of your projects that are -- if you
look -- and it's a little bit harder to see, but if you look at the red
markings along the major corridors, that's where your commercial is.
Those are your commercial that's consistent by policy. Those
individual parcels would be eligible to convert to residential, but the
requirement is it has -- all that has to -- the entire project has to be
affordable, and it is has to meet a public facilities -- it has to meet a
public facilities test. And if you do so, you can go -- you can get 16
units an acre. As I said, compared to what the state's going to
provide, it's not quite as enticing, but it's the same concept that
we've -- that we are proposing.
The next -- and I've always thought this is one of the most
important of our initiatives, and that's increasing our density within
March 28, 2023
Page 149
our activity centers and our interchange activity centers. Those are
your Pine Ridge and Airport, your major intersections where your
commercial activity is. Allow for the density, which is currently
capped at 16 units an acre, to go to 25 units an acre.
We know that with the advent of Internet retail and the
consistent changing amount of square footage that an area can
maintain from a commercial standpoint, that there's opportunities
within these activity centers, and I think across the street at Pine
Ridge Centers you can see a four -- a three- and a four-story complex
coming out of the ground and really having a sense of place within
those activity centers. It doesn't -- in terms of being able to add
higher density to an area that's really associated with high-intensity
activity.
And the beautiful part of the proposal is the residential
development actually creates less traffic than the commercial attracts,
so it's a downzoning in terms of the intensification of that
intersection.
We believe that this is a program that the marketplace will
continue to want to take -- will want to take advantage of, and we're
proposing that 25 units per acre. The downside to this proposal is it
requires a public hearing; whereas, the state's proposal, they could get
that 25 units an acre without that public hearing.
The fourth -- or the third of the initiatives is the strategic
opportunity sites. This is only a GMP proposal, meaning it's
allowed for by the GMP. And this is another one where the
marketplace has kind of jumped us on that.
If you remember, at -- or at the Arthrex industrial complex,
about a year and a half ago multifamily was proposed to be able to
host the workers and the visitations for Arthrex to add higher density
residential to an area that had a tremendous amount of employment
opportunities. This is the same concept. When you have an area of
March 28, 2023
Page 150
high employment opportunities, whether it be industrial or
commercial, we want to be able to promote higher density residential
in close proximity to close that spatial relationship, you know, taking
needs off our transportation system because of the synergy that you'll
get between high employment opportunities and actual residential
units in close proximity.
And then the last of them is the transit-oriented development
subdistrict. And the way that this is proposed -- and all of these are
GMP amendments. When they come back to you -- if you do decide
to transmit them to the state, when they come back to you, they will
be joined by the LDC amendments so you can see the specifics, the
nitty gritty of how the LDC is going to implement these concepts.
But the concept of this is, if you're on a transit line, you're going to
allow 13 units per acre. And those 13 units per acre can be market
based. And then if you want to provide for an affordable housing
opportunity, you can get up to 25 units per acre.
And one of the -- the things that inspired this is when we were
designing this particular GMP amendment, I've always heard from
the private development side, we need to make sure that we
understand that it's a combination to solve our affordable housing.
There's government incentives, but there has to be incentives that are
further driven towards the development community.
So what we're trying to do on this, if you have a TOD
development, meaning a transit-oriented development, you're going
to either have an existing bus stop within a quarter mile of your
project, or you're going to develop a bus stop within that quarter mile.
And the kicker is, 50 percent of the units have to be located within a
quarter mile of that bus stop. So what that means is the project has
to concentrate its development towards the -- towards the transit
station, and the number of units and the design of it is going to be
oriented around transit use. And the wisdom behind it -- or the
March 28, 2023
Page 151
anticipation is those units will be priced at a -- at a more moderate
level because of the unique -- the unique design requirements that
50 percent of that project has to be within that quarter mile of that
transit station.
And this is just kind of an estimation of the score sheet in terms
of what would be the potential impacts if we -- if we developed this
and all -- there was maximum participation, all the available
commercial parcels and parcels along the transit line provided for.
As you can see, within the first couple -- within the first couple of the
proposals, it's not a huge increase over what our existing GMP is.
Those are just a change within the process. But then when you get
from the conversion to commercial, it's potential 177 units above
what our existing GMP would allow for. Activity centers could
potentially have 4,789 additional units over what currently is allowed
for.
And then strategic opportunity sites, based upon the available
[sic] of green fields within the urbanized area, you may have another
408 units above what the GMP allows for. And then the TOD, the
transit, that's really where, theoretically, you could have a
tremendous windfall of potentially 8- to 15,000 over the -- over the
allowed -- current allowance of the GMP, but that's if every parcel
along the transit lines were taken advantage of. We know that's not
a reality.
One of the things that I did -- or I did not put within the staff
report, and that's -- or the executive summary -- that was on me.
This was taken to the AHAC last year. AHAC unanimously
supported these and made a recommendation to the Board of County
Commissioners that they -- to support the GMP amendments. It
went, in May of 2022, to the Planning Commission. It was a
unanimous recommendation from the Planning Commission for the
Board of County Commissioners to support the amendments.
March 28, 2023
Page 152
That's just a real high-level overview of the proposed
amendments, and staff is prepared to answer any questions the Board
may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, do we have any public
comment on this item?
MR. MILLER: Yes, we do, sir. I have eight registered public
speakers for this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel,
would you like to wait for public comment or speak now?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Your choice.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I'd be happy to -- I'll be
happy to wait for public comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's go with public comment
before we ask Mr. Bosi some questions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Court reporter?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, it is 2:30. Okay. Let's do
that. Yeah, we're at our 2:30 break. So we'll take a break. Can we
come back here at -- let's go 2:45 just so everybody can use the
restroom, give an extra five minutes. So we'll adjourn until 2:45,
and then we'll continue with public comment.
(A brief recess was had from 2:31 p.m. to 2:45 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Mr. Miller, let's continue
with public comment.
MR. MILLER: Your first public speaker for this item is David
Bumpous, and he will be followed by John Harney.
MR. BUMPOUS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name
is David Bumpous. I'm the vice president of operations with Arthrex
based here in Naples. You're all familiar with us.
It's always an honor to come before you to talk about the various
March 28, 2023
Page 153
projects and initiatives that are going on, affordable housing being
very dear to our heart, being a large local company, growing
exponentially each year.
I came before the Board back in 2019 to talk about this very
subject. And, first of all, I'd like to congratulate everyone, to
congratulate the staff, congratulate the Board, because I really see
progress being made.
And I want to thank Commissioner Hall for inviting me to come
today to speak on behalf of Arthrex, and not just about our needs, but
about the importance of this topic that we all know is vital to our
community, but how do we continue to keep our foot on the gas, and
what are those things that we need to do?
And so to see Mr. Bosi's presentation there, it gives me a lot of
hope. Obviously, having some communication with Tallahassee in
the past few weeks also gives us a lot of optimism about the future.
And so there's no need to rehash, you know, the discussions of
the past with traffic concerns and hiring concerns and all of those
issues. It is ironic, though, that as I was driving here today, I
thought about the photographs that I put up in 2019 of I-75 in the
morning and in the evenings and just how congested they typically
were. And I thought, well, this year I would have to put up
additional pictures of Immokalee Road and Vanderbilt Beach, and the
list goes on and on and on.
And we know that's not all about affordable housing. We know
with the onset of COVID, a lot of people have relocated to Florida.
Who wouldn't want to live in this amazing town that we call home?
But it is so vitally important for us to continue to thrive here not only
as an industry, as a company, as a global leader in medicine and
making people better, but it's vitally important for you as well, the
county government.
And so, again, I want to just -- with my limited time, I want to
March 28, 2023
Page 154
encourage you to do all that you can to promote these ideas, support
these ideas. And I love and appreciate the idea of making some of
them, you know, sunset over time so that they can be evaluated and
improved upon.
And I do believe there's one aspect of this that sometimes gets
lost. We talk frequently about hiring nurses and doctors and
teachers and all these various important roles that we need here in
Collier County, and they are vitally important. But there's one
subset that we often forget, and that's our children and our
grandchildren.
You know, I have two high-schoolers, and my wife frequently
brings up her fear that they're going to graduate from college and say,
Mom, Dad, we just can't simply come back and live in the town that
we love unless we live with you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was just going to say.
They could live with you. You've got a big house.
MR. BUMPOUS: We all know that story, right? But the
reality is that is a real issue we're seeing as a company, and that's why
it's so personal, you know, to all of us, quite frankly. And it should
be personal. We want people to be able to stay home, continue to
grow their communities, you know, provide the valuable input,
someday serve, you know, on this amazing board.
So, again, I appreciate the time today, and I certainly hope that
we will continue to do everything we can to push this initiative
forward.
So thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask, if I may?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We have some questions for you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: David, just one quick
question, or this is a comment/question.
I want to hear from you as one of our largest employers in
March 28, 2023
Page 155
Collier County what we can do to help you specifically, besides a
global passing of this or that or the other thing. I want -- I want
specifics. We have available --
MR. BUMPOUS: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- money through the sales
tax initiative. We have land holdings. We have a lot of other
things. And we don't have to have that discussion today, but that's
just for another time for me and you, and for anyone, necessarily,
that's listening. Those are the things that I'm actually looking for
solution-oriented decision-making.
MR. BUMPOUS: I appreciate that, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. BUMPOUS: Commissioner, you've known me long
enough that, trust me, if I had a solution to solve this entire problem,
you would have heard it long, long ago.
But some of the focus that we're already applying, I think, is so
vitally important. Looking at densities, looking at height
restrictions, you know, those are all going to be vitally important.
Flexible use where it's never been flexible before.
Again, I've lived in this community for over 20 years. I love
and respect what we've built here, the beauty of it; yet, at the same
time, we have to continue to look forward because things are
changing. Prices are through the roof in all aspects. You know, all
of us here today could never imagine what rent would be in this town
10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago.
And so I just think we have to continue to apply as many
creative solutions as possible. The reality is is providing money, not
likely the solution. But providing incentives, looking at impact fees
when feasible, all those different options should always be
considered. And, again, it's up to you, ultimately, to make those
prudent decisions on behalf of all of us. That's why we've elected
March 28, 2023
Page 156
you.
But, again, I'm here more than anything to just encourage you to
keep it as a top priority and keep pushing. And if there's something
we can do as business, we want to know that as well, as you certainly
know.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you're the one on the
ground. You're the one that's seeing the obstacles in your capacities
to hire, where your people are coming from, what they can and can't
do, and that's where I was asking for specifics. If you see a
particular obstacle that we necessarily could help with that would
maybe alleviate that, that was the thought process.
So thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you, what are
the -- because I know Arthrex is doing a lot for their employees.
NCH is looking at -- you know, and has, you know, purchased
apartment complexes and things like that for their employees. And
to your point, it's not just about the first responders or even about our
kids or grandkids. It's about the blue-collar workers. I mean, you
know, I talk to a lot of restaurateurs, and they say, my server makes
way less than a Collier County Sheriff. So before you try to focus
on the first responders -- and that's not a dis at anybody that's a first
responder, but the population of people that needs help is bigger.
I know right now in my district, Moorings Park and a few others
are working -- and I'm working with that group of converting a hotel
basically to apartment complexes, you know, a shabby hotel that
they're going to, you know, upgrade exponentially and then use that
for their employees. Moorings Park's going to use it. NCH is going
to use a little bit. I know that you-all are doing a lot of really unique
things for your employees.
What's the latest that Arthrex has done? Is it supplementing
their income to make sure they could afford to live here? And
March 28, 2023
Page 157
granted, there's people at Arthrex that make a great wage, but you
also have janitors. I mean, you have security.
MR. BUMPOUS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, I mean, you've got a bit of
everything.
Enlighten us as to the latest things that you-all are doing for your
employee base.
MR. BUMPOUS: Certainly. Thank you, Commissioner.
Yeah, to the very base of it, absolutely. We work every day to
try to be as competitive as we can and to provide that wage that does
help our employees, but on top of that, most of the time that's not
enough.
So one of the things that we've done for decades, especially here
at the corporate headquarters in Naples, is provide transitional
housing, especially for new employees moving into the area. And I
can tell you, 20-plus years ago that was -- you know, usually three
months is all that someone needed. Arthrex picks up the cost. We
had the luxury of doing that, providing them the opportunity to talk
with their coworkers, go out and drive around, get to know the
community, and then lease or buy or whatever they were planning to
do. The good old days, right?
Over time that transitioned to six months. That's now
transitioned to a year. And we have dozens and dozens and dozens
and dozens of these houses, apartments, and condos all around the
county.
And so, you know, it's quite a burden, but it's a necessary part of
doing business in Collier County. And so you're still trying to
provide people that opportunity to get here, to spend some time,
whether it's save up money, whatever it may be. But, quite frankly,
if I had 250 or 300 of those units, I could fill them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you pick up the tab, or do you
March 28, 2023
Page 158
subsidize -- you know, they pay a fee, you know, they pay rent but
it's a much less fee and you make up the difference or you own it so,
you know, you charge them whatever? What are the different
algorithms that you have or the different options?
MR. BUMPOUS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sure you might have several.
MR. BUMPOUS: Typically, the way it works is quite simple.
The first six months is 100 percent picked up by Arthrex. And
beyond that, then there's a nominal fee covering some of the basic
requirements of that property.
And much like NCH, Arthrex is currently looking for
opportunities. We are in negotiations for an apartment complex, a
small number of units in North Naples right now, again, to help
relieve that burden, you know.
And I often think to myself, as important as that is for us and to
continue to grow and blossom and be the company that we are and
support the community in the way that we, you know, certainly do,
that's roughly, you know, 70, 80 apartments that someone else could
be using, someone else could be renting. So we're hoping to
continue to push forward on those, but the reality is, as we all know,
supply is limited.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. BUMPOUS: It truly is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And not everyone's an Arthrex or a
Moorings Park. But, you know, what I'm being encouraged by is
even some smaller mom-and-pop business owners -- I've got a few on
Marco Island that actually bought some apartments, and their best
workers are going there because they don't want to lose their -- these
are restaurateurs, and so they're sort of taking your lead or learning
from -- you know, everybody is doing it a little bit different. But I'm
glad to hear -- you know, I knew you-all were doing that, and you've
March 28, 2023
Page 159
just put a lot more detail into it. And, obviously, it's a program that
I'm sure is not getting smaller. It's either holding its own, or it might
even be growing for you-all.
MR. BUMPOUS: I frequently say to people, if I may,
Commissioner, when they ask me, you know, why are you so
passionate and always vocal about affordable housing? And I tell
them, if you don't see the big picture, the big picture is truly about
sustaining our way of life here in Naples.
You mentioned the hospitality and the service industry. I mean,
that's the reality of it. And over time it's going to become more and
more challenging. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, David.
MR. BUMPOUS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I wasn't going to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, David.
We were asking questions -- I just want to ask -- thank you,
David. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks.
Okay. Next speaker.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John Harney. He'll be
followed by Joe Trachtenberg.
MR. HARNEY: I'm John Harney, and I am a member of the
AHAC as well as represent Habitat for Humanity.
I have some census data here that shows that over the last 20
years we've added 4- or 5,000 residents to the county. If you look at
the incomes for those residents, probably half of them or maybe more
than half of them every year would fall into the need for affordable
housing.
So we are behind right now, but this is not a problem where we
can solve where we build 10,000 units, and we're done. We will
March 28, 2023
Page 160
continue to need new units for many years to come.
First, thanks to Jamie French, Mike Bosi, Michele Mosca, and
Cormac Giblin. This has been a long road, and they've worked
really hard on these amendments, and they are very sound policies for
smart growth for the county.
Collier County, with this plan, does not have to build, own, or
manage new affordable housing. The developer community will
handle all that. There are no new county subsidies loaded into these
amendments. The State of Florida will be providing the incentives
through existing SAIL and SHIP programs, along with other
incentives in the Live Local Act. Federal HUD programs will be
used as they always have been.
Children will have safe homes to live in. Growing up in a
stable environment which is built with resiliency and has privacy
improves mental and physical health as well as improves school
performance. Graduating students will also have a better
opportunity to stay in the county.
Reducing commuting time for parents will enable them to spend
more time with their children. This leads to better school
performance and behavior for their children.
Reducing community -- commuting time and costs and living in
an affordable apartment will help families with their budgets for
healthcare and putting food on the table.
Aging in place can be also supported with affordable senior
apartments. Many seniors who have lived in single-family homes
are ready to move to apartments. They no longer want to maintain
their properties. They want to free up the equity they have. Many
want to downsize their expenses while living near their extended
families in county. They want to support their families by baby
sitting, cooking, taking kids to activities and running errands. Their
help can help -- their help will also help their children go back to
March 28, 2023
Page 161
work. Many people are still at home because they can't afford to
leave their kids at home. They look at the grandparents to help.
CAT will be able to serve these higher-density neighborhoods.
That's been spoken about by Mike; it was covered.
There's an additional benefit for employers, and that is that
people will stick around. Every employer, including Arthrex, has
people who come here. They try it. They can't afford it. They
leave. People are no longer leaving Naples. They're no longer
leaving Collier County. They're leaving Lee County, Charlotte
County. They're gone. They're out of here. They're moved clear
out of Southwest Florida. They're not going to drive anywhere
around here anymore. We have effectively created a situation where
they can't afford to stay.
May I have 30 seconds more?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. HARNEY: The Live Local Act is expected to be signed
by Governor DeSantis in the next few days, most likely. The
recommended code changes for Collier County work well with the
new state law. There are some areas that the new state law covers.
There are some that the amendments cover. In the cases where the
state laws are already written to cover some overlap area, the state
laws will be the ruling law.
Please vote today to pass sending these amendments off to the
state, and they will review them relative to the Live Local Act, and
let's get this done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I have a question for you, because
you've been in this business a long time, and I'll have the same
question for Mr. Trachtenberg.
Anything concern you that's coming down from the state to us?
And I think you already answered my question about what the county
is proposing, what Mr. Bosi went over. I mean, if you had any
March 28, 2023
Page 162
serious concerns, we'd want to hear those right now. It sounded like
you were, you know, obviously positive about those. But anything
you want to share with us that if you were king for a day or you think
that we might miss in the fine print, or --
MR. HARNEY: No. I am all for the Live Local Act. It is
incredible. It is such a huge step forward from anything that's been
done in Florida for affordable housing. If I could go there and pat
people on the backs for voting for it, I'd do it because they -- there are
some great things in it. It's going to make a really big difference.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Good. Okay. Thank
you, sir.
MR. HARNEY: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Joe Trachtenberg. Joe,
I'm not clear by this slip. Was Jennifer wanting to cede time to you?
MR. TRACHTENBERG: But she's left long ago.
MR. MILLER: Okay. So Joe will be followed by Lisa
Lefkow.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: Good afternoon. For the record, I'm
Joe Trachtenberg.
May I answer your question first, Rick, if I can?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: So first of all, I am completely in
support of what the county staff has proposed. I can tell you
when -- with your permission and with Amy's leadership, putting
AHAC together with Jamie and Mike and the other folks from county
staff was just a remarkable change, and it's really raised the level, I
think, that AHAC has been able to operate at.
So in terms of -- in terms of the state and what they've done, I
had the opportunity to meet with Kathleen in January and review her
rough plans, and I think her primary focus there, since she lives in
Collier County, is observing how difficult it's been to make changes
March 28, 2023
Page 163
here, and I think that influenced her in structuring the bill that was
presented to the Senate and to the House. Basically, having
the -- having the state supersede what the local governments are
doing.
I think from -- from a perspective -- a state perspective
throughout Florida, as we continue to grow as a state, this is a very
special place to live, and I think we found that Southwest Florida and
particularly Collier County and City of Naples are even more unique
and more special.
So I can go on with my remarks. As Mike said over a year ago,
AHAC unanimously supported these four -- these four changes, and
that's been in place for a long time. Obviously, the Planning
Commission supported them unanimously in May. And standing
here before you today, I think it's appropriate for you to consider
them favorably as well and not allow what the state is doing really to
interfere in how you view -- how you view what may be their new
authority.
If for no other reason, I think it's -- I think it's important, as
momentum has grown in Collier County favoring the need for
workforce and affordable housing, senior housing, and so forth, I
think it's important that the BCC demonstrate that you care about
these things, that these are important issues to you all and that you're
going to do what you need to to support them.
You asked the two prior speakers about other areas, and I would
like to offer, these aren't new comments. I've been making to
the -- making them to you for the past year, but if I can take another
minute.
I think the next area after these four zoning changes are made is
it's essential that you look at your impact fee structure, both in terms
of how you charge, the amount you charge, and the deferral program
that's currently in place.
March 28, 2023
Page 164
Lee County is charging 7,000 a unit for affordable housing.
Miami-Dade has gone to zero. Sarasota County is using a sliding
scale on impact fees for affordable housing. The lower the AMI, the
lower the amount of impact fees.
We're charging 18- to $20,000 a unit for impact fees on
affordable housing, and we've got a deferral program that is broken.
I think county staff recognizes that. And I urge you to reconsider the
impact fee program. I think the best place to start would be the
Golden Gate Golf Course and the housing that's there. Those folks
need that funding, and this would be an ideal way to help make that
happen.
I know that later on your agenda today is the -- is considering
this surtax money. The subcommittee that I appointed when I was
chairman of AHAC made some rule recommendations. They'll be
presented to you by county staff. I think that -- I think they're
terrific. I think they're exactly what you're going to want to see, and
I urge you to approve those as -- those as well.
I guess I have one last area that I really feel I need to urge you to
look at. When we look at the distribution of apartments that are
being allocated through affordable housing, virtually all are being
moved in the 100 percent and 120 percent AMI level; whereas, the de
facto average minimum wage in Collier County is now $17 an hour,
$35,000 a year.
At 100 and 120 percent AMI, the rents that are going to be
generated in these apartments are over $2,000 a month. From my
perspective, those are much closer to luxury rentals than the kind of
rentals that workforce can afford.
And if you look at even the Golden Gate Golf Course property
and how that's been allocated in terms of apartments, 5 percent of
them are going to 50 percent AMI, 15 percent of them are going to 80
percent AMI, 80 percent of them going to 120 percent AMI. That
March 28, 2023
Page 165
means the vast -- even though 120 percent qualifies as affordable
housing under our HUD laws and under our Florida State laws, the
reality is 120 percent AMI at a $98,000 AMI that we have in Collier
County won't cover our workforce.
So I urge you, as you look at the distribution, to have far more
units down at the 50 percent AMI level and far fewer at the
120 percent; otherwise, we're really not curing the problem.
So thank you very much for allowing me to speak, and don't
give up. Vote yes on this, and please continue to support affordable
workforce housing in our county.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When we do that, though, and
we -- and I don't disagree with you, but what the average citizen
doesn't understand is if we said, yeah, we want 80 percent of the units
to be at 50 percent AMI, it all of a sudden changes the algorithm of
the density. And so some of these angry emails I get from some
people saying, God, you guys haven't done anything at the county.
Then when I say, you know those 120 units right across the street
from your gated community that you hate, I'm going to make
99 percent of those affordable, but now it's going to be 375
units -- and I'm pulling numbers out of the air.
But that's the piece that this county as a whole doesn't sort of
get. And when we talk to developers, I talk to them. Now you've
got Commissioner Hall, you know, knee deep in it, but, really, all of
us. You know, developers will tell me with the door closed, I'm not
a charity. So, yeah, I'll build all the units you want, and I'll make it
20 percent of AMI, but I'm going to need 300 more units in that
building, and it's going to need to be 10 stories taller.
I'm overexaggerating, but that's the part that we really have got
to get folks informed on because, secretly, you know, we get 300
emails, but then, you know, you're in a town hall meeting and
everyone says, you know, they want the affordable housing built out
March 28, 2023
Page 166
in the Sahara Desert or all out in District 5 surrounded by redwood
trees and unseen by anybody.
And, you know, as we change that equation, even if we tweak it
just a little bit, it increases the amount of density, and that -- and I'm
not saying that -- that we shouldn't do that. But, then, you know, we
wind up getting input from a lot of people to include the developer
who says, you know, I don't think I'm even interested in this project
anymore, because I'd rather go remodel the Ritz and make money
hand over fist, right?
MR. TRACHTENBERG: So if I may, two very quick
responses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: First of all, there is no question that
attracting affordable builder -- developers of affordable housing
requires that they be able to make a small profit, or they're not
coming here. So, you're absolutely right, the pieces have to be in
place.
So impact fees are a big dollar amount, and that -- and that will
help without increasing density.
I think the other thing that -- I think the other thing that you will
see -- and, you know, I took your assignment and Commissioner
Saunders' and Commissioner McDaniel's assignment very seriously
that you were getting these criticisms for the past year, so I made it
my business to go out and try to convince people to fill your mailbox
with emails saying that we do want affordable housing and that we
are willing to tolerate these other issues. And I think --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They never said the second part,
by the way.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: Well, I think the momentum has
changed, and I think a lot more people care about affordable housing
now than they did a year ago.
March 28, 2023
Page 167
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: And you're right, we are going to
have to make some sacrifices. But as the gentleman from Arthrex
said, if we want the quality of lives -- our quality of lives to be
maintained here in Collier County, we're going to have to keep
attracting people that make 30-, 35- $40,000 a year. You're not
going to want to go into a restaurant and not be able to get a drink
because there's nobody there to mix it. So it's all got to work
together.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: Thank you very much for listening.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did you have something?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no, no. I just want to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lisa Lefkow. She'll be
followed by Joseph Rivera.
MS. LEFKOW: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, Lisa Lefkow, CEO, Habitat for Humanity.
So I want to just support all of this. We have been a part of the
conversation beginning back after the ULI study. So this is an
important moment for us to move these items forward.
I want to be clear, these are not particularly things that are going
to make a big impact for Habitat for Humanity as your leading
provider of affordable homeownership for Collier County's
workforce, and that's partly because we are historically a low-density
builder.
Commissioner LoCastro, we actually are a developer and a
not-for-profit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. LEFKOW: Perhaps the only one in town.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, definitely the only one.
March 28, 2023
Page 168
MS. LEFKOW: Not the only one, but in terms of
homeownership, yes.
These are important amendments. These are important
opportunities. They will incentivize other developers. There is a
lot of rental activity going on currently. And so I want to just
remind you that there is more work to be done. There are more
things that we can open up in order to provide incentives for
affordable homeownership. And the math has to work, there's no
doubt about that.
Commissioner Hall, the first time that we met you asked me,
how would you feel if another developer of affordable housing came
to town? And I think I told you I would do a happy dance, right? I
am absolutely here to say we've got to have more people. I'm not
Sara Lee. We can't do everything for all people. But I am very
much encouraged by the conversation going on today.
Joe's right, we are at a point in our community where the
conversation around housing affordability and access to affordability
is at a peak, and so this is the moment to seize that opportunity and to
open up as many incentives as we can.
My colleague from Arthrex simply neglected in the midst of the
conversation to talk about the wonderful partnership that Arthrex has
with Habitat for Humanity and the number of Habitat homeowners
that are Arthrex employees.
So, again, this is a wonderful opportunity for us, an incentive
and an encouragement for others to come to the table and to continue
to provide access to affordability.
The Live Local Act is critically important. Lots of -- it's a
robust act. But to Senator Passidomo's words herself, it really is an
opportunity to incentivize rental production and productivity of rental
housing. Certainly a need, but we've got to also be aware of that
affordable homeownership.
March 28, 2023
Page 169
So, Commissioner McDaniel, to answer your question about
what you can do to help Habitat --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did I ask you?
MS. LEFKOW: You were about to.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, okay.
MS. LEFKOW: I know you were about to. You were about to
ask the same thing that you asked David, which is what can you do to
help Habitat build more homes. And so the considerations, the
things that we've done in the recent history, the development of the
Community Land Trust, the surtax, and our process to create ability
to use that surtax funding, looking at county-held properties that
might be useful, that might be put into the land trust, and then a
developer like Habitat to be able to come forward and provide
additional homeownership opportunities.
So thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I have a statement and a question
for you. So the statement is: I'm always disappointed when I have
a town hall meeting and citizens in that community hear that maybe a
Habitat project is coming, and the ones that are against it will say,
you know, we don't need low-income housing across the street from,
you know, our gated community. And the reality is, you know, they
think, like, you know, homeless people have been pulled off the street
and are living there, and they don't realize it's Arthrex employees,
NCH nurses, blue-collar folks as well.
So, I mean, it's a real feather in your cap the people that you're
taking care of. It's unfortunate. It's a small percentage of people,
but it was -- it's a bigger percentage than I ever thought it would be
that folks still sort of don't understand or have a misconception of
Habitat for Humanity.
The question I just have for you -- take advantage of the CEO
for Habitat for Humanity being here -- anything you can share with
March 28, 2023
Page 170
us that's on the books, that's on the horizon or something like -- you
know, to Commissioner McDaniel's question, how can we help you?
Is there something that's coming to us sooner than later, or you have
something in the works? I mean, I know you always have some
things on the drawing board and some shovels in the ground. What's
the latest in your world?
MS. LEFKOW: There are always things in the works. And I
forget who talked about this first -- David, maybe it was you -- about
the flexibility. So being able to say, you know what, we created this
process then, but we are a different community today. And so being
open to flexibility, to new ways of coming at our Land Development
Code, building density, all these things that we're doing right now.
These are the keys. We've got to identify who we are today and who
we are going to be. It is incumbent upon you-all to be those
forward-thinking strategists to say not just how is this going to
impact us today but how can we lay a solid foundation for smart
growth so that we are leaving the future in better hands and we
are -- we're thinking in advance about the incredible growth that
everybody agrees is happening and is going to continue to happen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know you own, you know, a bit
of land in my district, in District 1, that's not yet developed. Do you
have some things, though, that are -- and that's why I guess I'm
looking for a little bit of a crystal ball, if you can share. Are there
some things that -- on some of the undeveloped land that you own
that are starting to take shape, and, you know, might be coming, you
know, to this board or even just to me specifically, you know, sooner
than later?
Because what I -- the other thing I was going to echo is I'm just
so impressed at the different designs that -- you-all have been so
creative. You know, Habitat for Humanity definitely isn't -- aren't
cookie cutter neighborhoods. I mean, some of the drive-arounds that
March 28, 2023
Page 171
we had way back when, but even some of the new things, how they
all look so different. And I've said in town hall meetings before,
some of the nicest housing in certain parts of my district are Habitat
for Humanity houses.
But having said that, some of the land that you own as you go
east on U.S. 41 towards Everglades City, I know you have some
parcels there, is there anything that's starting to move in a possible
positive direction if you're able to share that?
MS. LEFKOW: Sure. And I don't want to preempt, but there
are lots of things that are in the works, things that are incentivizing
some joint venture partnerships, things that I think are going to open
up opportunities for mixed-income neighborhoods.
Obviously, one of the things that we are examining and taking a
look at is the Rural Fringe and some of those elements in the Rural
Fringe. And so, again, coming at that with a fresh eye and saying,
look, is this something that perhaps we can look at in a different way.
We set up this transfer-of-development-rights process long ago, and
maybe there's a way for us to examine that again that makes more
sense for who we are today and for the growth that has already
happened.
How can we begin to build around the commercial centers? We
have a brand-new Publix, right, way out east. And so, now, how do
we look at that area and say, how do we build in a smart way so that
we can provide access to employment that's close by rather than
busing people to Marco Island from Immokalee?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. LEFKOW: Those days are -- you know, we're not in those
days anymore. How can we begin to think about those lands out in
the RFMUD in a way that makes sense and, again, pushes density
into appropriate areas? So all things that, again, we're going to
continue to work at and be a part of that conversation.
March 28, 2023
Page 172
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal's got a
question.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good afternoon.
MS. LEFKOW: Hi.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I remember you came to my
office, and we spoke. And I have to say that some of the ideas and
concepts and the direction you were going and with the conversation
we had that day, I was -- you know, I've actually spoke about it with
other people, and I feel that -- I hope that you're still having these
conversations with these other partnerships, because I really think
that's a brilliant idea, and it's in -- and what -- the opportunity for you
to use properties you already own that you may not have the funds to
build on.
And, you know, I think -- I was hoping maybe to hear a little bit
more about that. But, you know, I think this is something
that's -- it's never been done before, I think, with your organization,
but I think it's a brilliant idea moving forward.
MS. LEFKOW: Thank you. You'll be hearing more.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. That's what I've been
waiting for.
MS. LEFKOW: Don't forget. Well, it's on the schedule.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MS. LEFKOW: So, yes, those -- and, again, it's part -- all of
this is part of those incentives to create those joint venture
opportunities where we can do more for everybody.
Joe talked a minute ago about the focus on various income
levels. And you remember that Habitat's primary focus is serving
families that are making less than 80 percent of the area median
income. There's a little flexibility there.
But just as an example, earlier today when we thought this item
might be heard before lunch, there was a prospective homeowner
March 28, 2023
Page 173
here, a mom and a family who has been approved to purchase her
Habitat home. She's self-employed, so she had a little bit more
flexibility in her schedule. Her husband is a wallpaper and tile
installer. But she wanted to be here to tell you her story of her
struggle to find affordable housing and the hope that is now a part of
her family as they look forward to purchasing a Habitat home.
So, again, thank you for the acknowledgment of the new
designs. We've really put a lot of time and energy into designing
neighborhoods, to your point, Commissioner LoCastro, so that people
drive by a Habitat neighborhood and don't know that it's not a
market-rate neighborhood. It looks like a market-rate neighborhood.
So that is absolutely our dedication, our commitment not only
for the community but for our homeowners to -- again, to continue to
grow that pride of homeownership. Owning a home creates that
long-term stability. It builds equity. Homeownership does so many
things that rental opportunities do not do, and so we want to be sure
that we are able to continue to provide that.
And we would like to be able to expand our work. And we can
do that when we work in partnership. The partnership at the Golden
Gate Golf Course is a beautiful example of that, a public/private
partnership brought the philanthropic community together with a
developer and county government. We'd like to see more of that.
Let's find more ways that we can do that. That's going to make
Collier County the leader in the provision of affordable housing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Okay. Next speaker?
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Joe Rivera, followed by
Kate Tardif.
MR. RIVERA: Hello. Good afternoon. My name is Joe
Rivera. I'm with the -- vice president of Golden Gate Civic
Association.
March 28, 2023
Page 174
Commissioner LoCastro, you mentioned that we should know
what's on the agenda, specifically what's on it so we can talk to it.
So with that, you said sending in emails is a good thing and making
your arguments, you know, to -- pro or con, whatever.
Well, the Golden Gate traffic -- the Golden Gate Civic
Association requests that the mixed-use activity center subdistrict of
the Golden Gate Parkway overlay be removed from consideration for
the proposed conversion of commercial by-right subdistrict. The
current zoning for this activity center was part of amendments to the
Golden Gate Master Plan approved just a few years ago, with more
than three years of staff planning and community meetings.
This proposed change would undo the intent of the activity
center, which was to provide above-first-floor retail
uses -- housing-above-first-floor retail uses. It will issue
increase -- it will also increase the density from 16 to 25 units
specifically -- I'm sorry -- impacting our infrastructure, overcrowding
in the heart of Golden Gate City. We are concerned that these things
will be given to the developer by right, removing the public process.
Commissioner Kowal talked about citizens' rights, to be able to
have your say. Removing that would leave us without a say in what
gets built in the community.
We had to -- the Association contends it is never beneficial nor
appropriate to remove the public from the process of government.
This is certainly not government by the people, for the people.
Golden Gate City has long provided affordable housing numbers
for Golden Gate -- for Collier County. The density in our
four-square-mile community is not double, not triple, but six times
the density of City of Naples. Our single-family homes house two,
sometimes three families. Every major corridor inside and outside
the community is lined with multifamily housing. We believe our
quality of life as well as our health and safety are jeopardized by
March 28, 2023
Page 175
continued efforts to increase density in our four square miles.
We ask that you do the right thing and uphold the intent for the
mixed-use activity center, which is in the Golden Gate Master Plan
and -- by removing this little red area, removing it from this initiative.
On your executive summary, on the first page -- no. In the
executive summary -- in the executive summary on the first page
under considerations, Paragraph 1, it says two of the five initiatives
are implemented by right. No zone required. No public notice.
No public hearings. There's no mention of any benefits to the
community -- to the residents neighboring that area.
Also, again, we -- Mr. Bosi said that the reception last time of
those four things that he showed on the Excel spreadsheet were
lukewarm. He said that there are sites that this -- that this can work,
but this is not a major intersection, that area, and all we ask is that
you remove it from this plan.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. RIVERA: Oh, sorry, last thing. Last thing, this is
your -- this is your -- what is this? -- your agenda for today regarding
this subject, and the Clerk's comments.
("Recording in progress" announced over the loudspeaker.)
MR. RIVERA: Okay. So the Clerk's comments show the
concerns there as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, my apologies for that. We're
having some significant Zoom issues -- it's an Internet
issue -- throughout the entire building. I'll call our next speaker,
Kate Tardif.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is Commissioner Saunders still on
the line?
MR. MILLER: I'm efforting that right now, sir. I do
believe -- yes, Commissioner Saunders is with us.
March 28, 2023
Page 176
Please, Kate, come on up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, do you
have any questions or anything at all at this point?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Not at this point but, yes, I
am back on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Great. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: And before Ms. Tardif, I did have a speaker on
Zoom queued up when everything got knocked out. I'm going to see
if we have her back right now.
Ms. Tardif.
MS. TARDIF: Thank you very much, and thank you for
allowing me to speak again. I appreciate in the past I have been a
major irritant, and I'm going to try to be -- this is the flip side now.
I'm very pleased to hear what I'm hearing today about the
emerging favoring of actually getting behind building affordable
housing. It's -- and I agree with a couple of speakers before me that
this has been a long journey here in Naples.
I think that some of the journey of it has had to do in part with
some of the -- a fairly large percent of owners perceiving it as slum
housing and not wanting that in -- not in my backyard, not to mention
the look and feel of Naples were there to be more of the kind of
housing that affordable brings to mind.
And so it's -- it is -- it's very exciting to hear that this is
something that we're putting some energy to. And I wonder if -- to
the matter of owners/residents looking at Naples as Southwest
Florida's playground and a playground like Palm Beach to Southern
Florida, if we don't need to do a little bit of work behind correcting
the perceptions of voters regarding exactly what affordable housing
is, what it can look like.
I was in a meeting a year or two ago and proposed putting aside
a section of housing for a new development, and it was vigorously
March 28, 2023
Page 177
shot down primarily by people who are much higher-incomed who
felt -- who had a not-in-my-backyard approach. And so I wonder if,
as we go forward with affordable housing and promoting
it -- building it and promoting it, we don't also work to alter the
impressions of those who might have a lesser opinion of it. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Never an irritant. Always a
collaborator, right?
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chair, we're going to try this.
Like I said, we've had some serious Internet and Zoom issues here.
Elizabeth Radi. Elizabeth, I see that you're there. We're going
to prompt you to unmute yourself. I can only hope all of this works.
We've had some battles today.
Elizabeth, I see you're unmuted. You have three minutes, and
our apologies for the Zoom interruption.
MS. RADI: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
A couple months ago when I was preparing to speak at a
housing forum, I was doing some research on the demographics
specifically of single parents in Collier County, because not only am I
one, but a large number of individuals that come in -- that I come into
contact with are being displaced right now, and they're single parents.
And you heard back during the repeal of the 60-day ordinance
from a foster mother who was taking in children from Collier County
due to traumatic circumstances that were beyond these parents'
control. And due to the fact that they could not sustain viable living
options for these children, they were placed in foster care.
When doing my research, the -- on the demographics, it showed
33 percent of Collier County residents were single parents. I was
really surprised; that's a large number.
So, you know, let's look at that. Eighty-five percent of single
parents can't afford to live here anymore. So that's literally almost
March 28, 2023
Page 178
30 percent of our residents here in Collier County that can no longer
be here, and that's just your single parents. That's not including your
seniors, your veterans, or your disabled that aren't capable of working
two or three jobs, as some single parents are, just to put a roof over
their kid's head.
Now, it was said by a commissioner that we don't need to hear
another sob story about someone going homeless or being evicted or
their rent being jacked up and not knowing what to do to understand
that there is a severe problem, and few have even used the word
"crisis," because that's what it's always been. There's no question
about that.
So the question still remains, what are we going to do about it?
I have advocated for affordable housing for years, and I can recall six
or seven years ago being quoted in the Naples Daily News about the
lack of affordable housing. And nothing's changed. It's only gotten
worse.
And when I first started advocating for the Collier County
Tenants Union, I would attend the AHAC meetings, and the
frustration was real, not only within myself and the tenants in the
community, but the AHAC itself in questioning what is the role
actually of the Board -- to the Board of County Commissioners as an
advisory committee if the BCC doesn't take their recommendations
seriously or them, as in the past.
I've watched, although I have been not at all of these meetings, a
huge change in the presence in the AHAC meetings and their
representation in the community lately. I am encouraged by what I
am seeing although, for the record, I do not agree with the removal of
the Chair because he, along with others, are one of the reasons that
the affordable and workforce housing issue has become a household
conversation and NIMBY-ism is being looked at even further.
As I've said before many times to you, the definition of insanity
March 28, 2023
Page 179
is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different
outcome, but what's even worse is pretending to want a different
outcome yet wanting things to stay the same.
We have kicked this can down the road for far too long
concerning solutions or recommendations for affordable housing.
It's time to pick the can up and recycle it into something that we can
be proud of.
So I implore you to consider and approve the building code
changes the AHAC have presented to you today. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, that concludes our public speakers
on this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know Commissioner McDaniel's
lit up. Are you lit up for Mr. Bosi, or just --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was lit up when he started,
and then we went to public comment. Somehow I got un --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall's on deck.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I got unlit.
My comments aren't -- I mean, my comments are for Mr. Bosi.
But I have concerns with this ordinance as it's written.
I would prefer, if we're going to vote on this today, that
we -- because in my understanding, there's basically four distinct
items that we're addressing here under this one proposition. Now,
I'm aware that this is just a transmittal hearing, so we're going to send
this off to the state and get their comments back, and I'm aware that
the legislature has laws that are coming at us fast and furious that are
going to have an impact on our densities and so ons and so forth.
My comments that I have here are the by-right conversions. I
have an issue with the by-right language that's in here on the C-4 and
C-5, not so much in the activity centers, but I would -- and not so
March 28, 2023
Page 180
much with the mixed-use. I really like mixed-use projects where
you have commercial on the first floor and residential above. I think
that's a wave of the future that can really assist with housing
affordability.
And I also have an issue with the transit routes. Those are
sweeping changes by right per this that are allowing for increased
density with little to no input from the community.
So my suggestions here today are, segregate these four things
into four individual votes because some of this which can be
supported, or take out the by-right language so that we're not -- we're
not boxing ourself in without having public input.
We heard from one homeowners association today that has an
issue with the by-right language and the increased density in an area,
Golden Gate City, that is -- already has by-right increases that haven't
necessarily even been effectuated yet. I expressed concerns when
we did that because of the conversion capacity on those commercial
pieces of property. So I know we have commercial rights of density
up to 16 units on C-1 through C-3, I think, already. This adds in C-4
and C-5.
So that's my suggestion is pull the -- pull the by-right language.
Can we go forward with it as -- as a proposition without the by-right
language?
MR. BOSI: Any of the proposals within the Exhibit A, which
is the proposed GMP amendments, they could be altered. You could
extract any portion of it.
What I will say about the by-right, the by-right is when you have
your commercial that's not within your activity center. Your activity
center -- the activity center within Golden Gate Parkway, that
density's already been increased by this Board of County
Commissioners -- well, a prior Board of County Commissioners to 21
units per acre, and I think that's what you're referring to,
March 28, 2023
Page 181
Commissioner.
The conversion to commercial doesn't apply in the activity
centers. The conversion to commercial only applies to commercial
that's outside of activity centers. So that would be your C-1, C-2,
C-3, C-4, and C-5 that are along your major highways that aren't at
your intersections. Those are the ones that would be eligible for that
conversion to residential without the public hearing. If it was the
will of the Board to remove that from the proposed amendments, staff
could remove those, and we would transmit those without that
component. But that would be a decision of the Board of County
Commissioners.
What I would remind you -- and I'm sure it's redundant. The
state's already -- the state has already indicated that that's going to be
out of our hands in the first place. But if you want to make that as
the will of this county, then staff will do whatever the bidding of the
Board of County Commissioners is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But are telling us if we made that
the will of the county, we would still get trumped by the state? We
couldn't do that?
MR. BOSI: Correct, correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only -- and I'm going to say
this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's the same problem I have,
you know. In my notes here, that's the only thing that bothers me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that's if they fulfill the
parameters of the statute. And when you're doing the ROI on a
project -- right now it works because -- relatively speaking, it works
okay with the 40 percent requisite to be held in an affordable status
but, also, that affordable status to meet that requisite of 40 percent is
120 percent of your AMI -- or our AMI. And so -- and it has been
mentioned, we're not dealing with a large section or a sector of our
March 28, 2023
Page 182
populous who doesn't come close to -- come close to matching that.
So we're only going to see sporadic development pop up when
the numbers actually work when the at-market portion of the
development can offset the theoretical deficit that's created by that
40 percent requisite.
So yes, we're not totally going to be trumped by it. But if we
go -- if we make a sweeping change like this countywide by right,
I've got a concern with that from a -- not allowing the residents that
are impacted by it to have a say-so. And the other side is, with the
transit routes, that's all across the board. And then it proposes -- the
concern I had was, what are we going to do when a transit route
changes?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What happens if a
particular -- because we change them all the time -- not all the time,
but we change them quite regularly. What happens if we do do that?
MR. BOSI: The project would be somewhat -- it would be
deemed a legal nonconforming, and you'd have your additional
affordable housing. The likelihood of us changing a transit route
with the limited number of east/west connections and north/south
connections are pretty low. There's only a few ways to get around
this town. It's one of the reasons why we have such a tough
transportation problem.
But hearing that, if that's the will of the Board to remove the
conversion by right -- the thinking behind the conversion by right, if
residential -- and one of the things -- or a unique aspect of it, all of
the -- all of the units, all 16 of those units would have to be dedicated
to affordable housing. So if someone would take advantage of that,
they would have to provide for affordable housing for all 16 units per
acre that would be associated with that.
But the concept is that the impact that that residential
March 28, 2023
Page 183
development would have compared to the impact that the commercial
has to be determined that the trips, the public utility impact has to be
lower than your commercial counterpart. So, therefore, we said,
we're removing the public hearing because it's a less intense project
than what is -- what the commercial would have on that adjoining
residential neighborhood, and because it's less impactful from those
public facilities impact, it should be -- we can allow for the
conversion without the public-hearing process. But I understand if
that's the will of the Board, we most certainly can remove that
component.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't like anything that removes
public comment, even when we get negative public comments. But
like you said, in the examples you're giving, it's going to be a small
percentage that that's going to happen to, right, is what you're
basically saying?
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. BOSI: There's -- if you've got the state saying you can
convert with no public hearing and only have to provide 40 percent at
120, and we're saying you have no public hearing, you convert, but
you only get 16 units an acre, and it has to be 100 percent of
affordable housing, I'm not sure how many developers are going to
choose that over this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before I go to Commissioner Hall,
I just wanted to ask you if you had any comment on the Golden Gate
presentation by the -- by the -- I guess it was the HOA president or --
MR. BOSI: The conversion of commercial to residential
doesn't apply in the activity centers, so it doesn't apply.
What I would say is if you'd like to go -- what would change is
the amendments would change the density. Currently it's capped at
22 units an acre. This would allow for 25 units per acre when it's
providing for affordable housing. A unique thing about the Golden
March 28, 2023
Page 184
Gate activity center, it allows 22 units per acre all at market rate.
Currently you can get 16 units per acre at the activity centers.
If you want to go above it, as we're proposing to 25, it has to have
affordable housing. They don't need affordable housing to get to 22
units per acre.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So his concern to pull that out is
actually not --
MR. BOSI: It's not founded because the conversion to
commercial is only outside of the activity centers and that's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's make sure we circle back
with them because, I mean, you know, he -- I appreciated his
comments, so I just want to make sure that we separate rumor from
fact.
MR. BOSI: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me go to Commissioner Hall.
Sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So what is the main difference
between our initiatives and what the state's going to put in?
MR. BOSI: The rewards.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The differences. Like, what
advantages would we have over what the state's going to approve?
MR. BOSI: The advantages we would have from a local
perspective is we require to get you -- to get to the 25 units per acre
in the activity center, you're going to have to dip down to your lower
or very low to get to that highest -- to get to the full 12 units an acre.
The state will just give you 92 units per acre without having to dip at
anything below 120.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess what I'm asking is, if we
approve these initiatives and the state comes along and does the Live
Local Act, are we going to get trumped everywhere, or is there places
where we won't get trumped?
March 28, 2023
Page 185
MR. BOSI: The transit -- the TOD transit proposal will not
be -- is not -- is not -- won't be trumped by the state because that
is -- most of those properties are commercial that are along the transit
lines, but the residential properties along there can take advantage of
it at 13 units per acre.
So there are some instances where the ones we are proposing I
think have value and would stand as a potential option, another
option. But the transit line does not allow for -- or it doesn't
eliminate the public-hearing process. It just means you're eligible
for the 13 units per acre. It doesn't mean that you get to skip the
public-hearing process. That's what the state would do.
So for the concerns on the transit lines, you get 13 units per
acre -- you're eligible for 13 units per acre --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask -- forgive me for
interrupting.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That okay. My next question was,
what is the percentage of affordability to get to the 25?
MR. BOSI: On the transit line?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, on the transit lines.
MR. BOSI: You would have to -- you need 12 additional units
to get beyond what you're eligible at 13 units per acre as being
proposed. To get to that 12, you're going to have to at least dip
down to the low to get you -- the way that our affordable housing
density bonus table works, to get to the full 12, you're going to need
to at least attend to the -- at least a portion of your commitment to the
50 percent level. So we'll get a wider variety in a more robust
targeted income-restricted area.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So you're saying it needs to be
100 percent affordable, but a certain percentage of that 100 percent
has to be low?
MR. BOSI: Yes.
March 28, 2023
Page 186
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Gotcha.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Super low.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, what -- you're
proposing that they could go to 12?
MR. BOSI: On the -- on the transit lines?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On the transit line, yes.
MR. BOSI: They're eligible for 13 units per acre, and they still
have to go through a public-hearing process. So you could say, we
don't think 13 units per acre is appropriate at this location or -- that's
at market rate. And if they wanted to go above what they're eligible
for at 13 units per acre, at market rate, they could go up to 25, but
that has to have an affordable housing density bonus agreement with
it -- associated with it to get to that full 25.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And what do they start with
before they come in? Do they have to be C-1 through 5?
MR. BOSI: No, no. They could be C-1 through 5, or they
could be residential.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It could be a single-family lot
on Golden Gate Parkway.
MR. BOSI: Yes, or it could be a leftover ag parcel that they're
scattered along some portions of the East Trail or other.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hence the concern that I
expressed about by right on those transit routes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's not by right.
MR. BOSI: There's no by right. It requires a public hearing.
It all requires a public hearing to rezone the process to that TOD. So
there's no by right associated with the transit line. It all requires a
public hearing, and it requires an affordable housing bonus to go
above the 13 they would be eligible for.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
March 28, 2023
Page 187
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anybody come back on public
comment, Mr. Miller, anything?
MR. MILLER: No, we have no more public comment on this,
sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, I just
wanted to reach out to you again just in case you had a comment; we
weren't seeing you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. No comments at this
point. I may have some before we vote.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean, if no one
has -- Commissioner Kowal, did you have -- go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just wanted to ask Mr. Bosi,
the state -- this particular state statute that's going to be coming down
our way, was the C-4 and C-5 included in -- with their languages?
MR. BOSI: Yeah. Any area that's zoned commercial, that's
C-1 through C-5 in our parlays, anyone is entitled to the 92 units per
acre, and the height's going to be determined by its location within
that one-mile radius in which they look out.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the achievement of the
density is going to be based upon the size and then proximity to
another -- to another higher structure within that one mile.
MR. BOSI: Exactly. It says you're entitled to the highest
structure residential or commercial within that one-mile area. If
that -- or three stories, whichever is higher. So if you've got a
three-story product, even if they're eligible by that 92 units an acre
that we have approved, there's no way that they would be able to fit
that within the boundaries of a three-story structure. You just don't
get the economies of scale. You don't get the height necessary to do
so.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a question.
March 28, 2023
Page 188
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: You can go first.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm going to make a motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, my next
question, then, is the maps you were showing were mostly in the
urbanized area. There are C-3, C-4, C-5, C-1, C-2 out east. I know
we just approved four-story apartments at Randall, so that's going to
open up a mile ring, and that is a transit route on Immokalee Road.
MR. BOSI: That will open it up for the state. Our GMP
amendments are only applicable to the urbanized area. It
specifically is out -- we've excluded the Rural Estates, we've
excluded the RLSA, the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use, we've excluded
that. The state, now that's a different story.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. We really
don't have anything to say about that, at this stage anyway.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, as our AHAC
rep, I'd like to have you make the motion.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm going to make a motion that we
approve all four of these initiatives with the exclusion of C-4 and 5.
And I know that NABOR has expressed, you know, concern about
that, and they have valid reasons. And I don't think that we're giving
up a lot by excluding that, and we're going to get trumped anyway
with the state. But I want to show the will -- I want to show the
people that we're willing to do what we're willing to do.
MR. BOSI: And that's C-4 and C-5 properties for the
conversion to commercial by right. We want to eliminate that,
correct?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Correct, by right.
MR. BOSI: Because I think I heard Commissioner McDaniel
was supportive of C-4 and C-5 mixed-use.
March 28, 2023
Page 189
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes. I'm talking about the ones
that are by right.
MR. BOSI: Sure. That's the conversion -- okay, understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we're going to leave the
transit route in there?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why don't you like the transit
routes in there; because of the changes?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because it's taken -- it's taken
a -- it's taking a -- per my understanding, it's taking a residential piece
of property and converting it to a high density -- higher density
multifamily.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not automatically. It comes back
to us to approve that.
MR. BOSI: They're eligible -- yes, they're eligible for a
rezoning that ultimately --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But we still have the say.
MR. BOSI: Ultimately it has to be approved by the Board of
County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They're eligible for that now.
MR. BOSI: Well, I mean, they're eligible for anything because
of the Growth Management Plan, and a rezone can get you to any
conclusion. But this is setting up, within our plan, density along
transit lines at 13 units per acre at a market rate as eligible, and then
up to 25 units per acre for the Board to ultimately make a decision
upon whether that's the appropriate place if they came forward.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm having trouble supporting
the transit route aspect of it. I'm okay with the removal on the -- I
mean, the -- I suggested the removal of the language on -- the
by-right language on C-4 and C-5, but I'm still hesitant on the transit
March 28, 2023
Page 190
routes. It's just -- to me, that's too large of a change. I understand
they still have to come back to us, and I don't want to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: I will point out that we -- this is transmittal.
When we come back at adoption, you will have the specific LDC
amendments to implement these. So you'll have more understanding
of the actual -- the nitty gritty of the details that will be contained
within the proposed Land Development Code amendments, and that
might be a more -- more comprehensive in understanding the full
impact of the transit decision. I just want to offer that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Does that satisfy you a little bit
more or not really?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Uh-uh, not really. I mean,
there again, we -- you -- I've been 4-1 Billy before, so I'm okay with
that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, you've been at this a lot
longer. So to me, by approving it there's no difference than not
approving it. It still has to come to us for rezoning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So why do it?
COMMISSIONER HALL: For the affordability aspect of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, am I
hearing you chime in?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. It gives me a little
bit of concern, but I'm beginning to agree with Commissioner
McDaniel more frequently than I'm used to.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, are you there? I think you're
muted. We can't hear you. We can't hear you. We'll get back to
you in an hour.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, I understand his
March 28, 2023
Page 191
concern, and I kind of share it. But as Commissioner Hall has said,
this is just a transmittal. So why don't we go ahead and transmit it
and, Commissioner McDaniel, let's -- when it comes back, let's have
that conversation as to whether we should keep it in there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. That's my -- that was my
position as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You okay with that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I mean, we're going to
get to live with whatever we vote on. I'm -- I have -- I have concerns
about it.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: They're valid concerns, and we're
hearing you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And so I would
prefer we leave the transit routes out. But if that's the will of the
Board, then, you-all just go on --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We have a motion and a second
with the changes to C-4, C-5.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And the by-right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any more comment? Yeah,
absolutely. Any more comment?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anything from you-all? It seems
like you're leaning forward.
MR. BOSI: I would just say that, as pointed out by Mr. French
and Mr. Giblin, this will maybe reduce some of the frequency of the
small-scale amendments that we get, because if you really -- and have
a little bit more leverage when we're dealing with some of the
one-offs in terms of another program instead of -- in terms of how we
deal -- how we deal with these proposals that we're getting in terms
March 28, 2023
Page 192
of exceptions to the GMP that are providing for affordable housing.
So it kind of does align with some of the momentum that the
private side has shown in terms of some of the recent projects that
they've put forward. I just wanted to put that out there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I've got a motion and
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes 4-1.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask Jamie French a
question before we come off this subject?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Start to finish, when a project
comes forward from pre-app to CO, what's a current average
timeline?
MR. FRENCH: Can we unbox that? It depends on the
developer, sir. If you -- if all the stars are aligned and they submit a
good project and they get their submittal right the first time using a
sharp pencil, we're probably, from CO to -- or from pre-app to CO,
we're probably about three years.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So one of the things that I
would like to see, which will greatly enhance our development
community's participation in housing development at large, is a
compression of that timeline somehow, some way to get through that
process.
MR. FRENCH: Our current -- our current review time,
roughly, we follow the state model at 30 days on the planning. It has
March 28, 2023
Page 193
to go through the public hearing. It has to meet all those aspects.
Building Department turns these around in probably about five
to six days, calendar days. So -- I'm sorry -- business days. So
within a week I can turn around a set of plans and issue a permit.
But 90 percent of what gets rejected throughout our agency is
because of missing documentation or submittals, and --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And forgive me for
interrupting you. And you and I have spoke about this circumstance
in the past. What I would like to see is examples of those -- of those
issues that are coming forward and being delayed, and the
government's being blamed because of an inappropriate, unfulfilled
application. I'd like to -- well, we don't need to belabor the point
anymore right now. It's just -- time is money. At the end of the
day, time is money.
MR. FRENCH: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And if we -- if you see places
where we can compress that timeline from a government perspective.
We can't do anything about shoddy work. When a consultant brings
in an application that isn't properly filled out, and we're getting RAIs
two and three and four -- requests for additional information, three
and four times, that extends the timeline out enormously, but that
doesn't have anything necessarily to do with the government. If
there is something that we can do from a government perspective to
compress the timeline, that would be a huge benefit. And I'd like to
implement those as systemic adjustments.
MR. FRENCH: We would appreciate that, sir. Unfortunately,
what happens is that they get three swings at the plate before they
have to pay any additional dollars on their review. Typically, they
all get through on the third time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Imagine that.
MR. FRENCH: And it does create a great deal of rework, if
March 28, 2023
Page 194
that's a word, for us. So what that does is that if you're in the queue,
unfortunately, you have to wait longer because the design
professional, perhaps, held you up. And we continue to have these
conversations with the industry.
We haven't had one in well over a year since I've been back.
But we will institute those meetings again, gladly, because they
benefit the community and certainly your staff because, again, when
something gets resubmitted, we have to take it right through the
review process. And we're an enterprise fund, as you know. So
although we don't impact the taxpayer for our services, we kind of
do, because the longer it takes to get a permit, that's the longer it
takes for somebody to move into a home or a business or to collect a
paycheck. And we recognize the economic detriment of those
actions, so we take that very serious.
We appreciate your support. We'll bring -- we'll work with
your office directly, and we'll bring you some examples.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Can I ask a question? Are what
we're asking for in those submittals, that 90 percent of them come
back incomplete, do we have the discretion to eliminate some of
those -- the things that we ask for? Some of that stuff I've looked at
is like, whoa, I can't believe they're asking for that.
MR. FRENCH: So, for example, there's one project that some
of you may be familiar with that they were looking for a payment in
lieu of sidewalks. That was never brought to the Board for
consideration, and it can only be a Board -- but all they had to do
strictly -- they have the ability to show the sidewalks on their plans,
and we could have gotten them through the process if they changed
their mind later. And construction's not a straight line; we recognize
that. But they -- that's one of the holdups, or perhaps are applying
for a building permit and they show windows, but the State of Florida
requires that you show your product approval which is from the
March 28, 2023
Page 195
design professional that says, yes, this adheres, and they don't even
make reference to the type of windows they put in. So it runs the
gamut. We are a minimum-code state. So we simply apply the
minimum code that the state requires.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So you're saying the state's
requiring everything that we're asking for --
MR. FRENCH: Most of the time.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- and we really don't have the
leeway of saying, we can do without that or we can do without that?
MR. FRENCH: Whether it be the Department of
Environmental Protection, the Department of Health, or the Florida
Building Commission, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're locked in, right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's take a break and
come back at 4:10.
(A brief recess was had from 4:00 p.m. to 4:10 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. What's next? We're going
to 10B.
Item #10B
RESOLUTION 2023-58: APPOINTING UP TO EIGHT MEMBERS
TO THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT PRODUCTIVITY
COMMITTEE - MOTION TO REAPPOINTING ELIDA OLSEN
(DIST. 1), TRACY KEEGAN (DIST. 2), (DIST. 3 TBD AT A
LATER DATE), LARRY MAGEL (DIST. 4), JEFF CURL (DIST.
5), WITH JOHN SYMON, MICHAEL DALBY, AND JAMES
CALAMARI (AT-LARGE) BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED
March 28, 2023
Page 196
MS. PATTERSON: We're moving to 10B. This is
recommendation to nominate and appoint up to eight members to the
County Government Productivity Committee. I will look over to
County Attorney Klatzkow to help guide you through.
MR. KLATZKOW: The process -- and I chatted briefly with
the Chair on this. The process would be I suggest you do the
regulars first, the at-large second. And by "regulars," we go in
commission district order. So the commissioner for District 1 would
make a nomination from the applicants if desired, the Board would
vote on it, and then we move down through 2, 3, 4, 5, take care of
that, and then we'll get to the alternates.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So if that's the -- that
sounds good. So if I start off, I'm going to nominate Elida Olsen,
right, for District 1?
MR. KLATZKOW: If that's what you wish, yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely, yeah. And that's a
re-appointment. And do we have to -- do you want to -- do we have
to vote on each individual person?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's do them all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Maybe just do them all.
Yeah, she's stellar. It's a re-appointment. You know, I handpicked
her initially, and I've heard nothing but --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could I jump in for a
second, because I sit with this committee. And I'd like to make sure
that -- all of the existing members that are seeking re-appointment, I'd
like to see all of them get reappointed. That still leaves a whole lot
of openings. But, for example, Larry Magel and Jeffrey Curl and
Elida Olsen, as you said, I'd like to make sure that they're appointed.
March 28, 2023
Page 197
And then there's several others that are -- that are on there, like
Michael Dalby. I don't have the list in front of me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I do. I don't see Larry
nominated for re-appointment unless -- I mean --
COMMISSIONER HALL: He's District 4. He's in there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, I know. I see him on the list
here, but on the cover sheet here, it's --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I'm not sure why his
name was left off there. He's been the Chair. He really makes the
committee work. And so I want to make sure that --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's on this, right?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In the executive summary it
talks about all of the committee members that are on there, and it has
a note by Larry and by Curl and by Dalby and by Elida that they're all
reapplying, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's pull that up.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So if we could make sure
those four get reappointed, and then kind of go from there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do we have too many?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. But, again --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No -- there's one too many, I
think, on the list.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, you had five district seats. They're
done by nominations. Then you have three alternates that you could
backfill through.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. So --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I'm looking at the -- I'm
looking at today's agenda, 10B, action item printout. So it says
district -- you know, it's the -- it's this. It's the chart. So it says,
March 28, 2023
Page 198
District 1, Elida Olsen. I reappointed her. I sent the email, made it
all official, boom. Whoever -- District 2, Tracy Keegan, boom, is on
there. Why is 3, 4, and 5 blank?
MR. KLATZKOW: We didn't get nominations from all the
commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. But then I look at the
second page, and Larry's in District 4. So should he be in that block
as a re-appointment?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If Kowal wants him.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I mean, so that's what
we're all here to do. So if you missed reappointing him to the
County Attorney, you know, by accident or didn't see the email or
whatever, I mean, let's solve it today. So I appoint Elida Olsen in
District 1. Obviously, Commissioner Hall is appointing Tracy
Keegan, correct?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And then for District 3, I
mean, at least on this front page, is a blank. Do we have District 3
nominees?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It looks like there are two.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, Marvin and Peter, right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: To be perfectly honest, I
don't know either one of those guys.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you want to leave that open for
now, Commissioner Saunders, and you can -- you know, we could
always appoint them separately or --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sure. Why don't we do this.
Let me just -- give me the authority to appoint one of those two.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll get with the County
Attorney --
March 28, 2023
Page 199
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't think we have any objection
to that. And then District 4, it looks like Larry Magel is
looking -- like you said, is looking for re-appointment, but then you
also have two other nominees -- or two other applicants, Michael
Flaherty and Meredith Gavin.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: There's only one spot, right?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. So do you want to do the
same thing Commissioner Saunders is doing, Commissioner Kowal,
take a look at your --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'll nominate Larry Magel.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, we have three at-large.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So let's have Larry Magel
one of the at-large.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So the nominee that's not
at large should be -- could be either Michael Flaherty or Meredith
Gavin. Am I looking at the right things? Back me up on this.
Okay.
So, Commissioner Kowal, do you want to -- do you know either
of those -- either of those two you want to be your nominee, or do
you want to do what Commissioner Saunders is doing in District 3
and, you know, nominate them at a later date?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I do not know either one
of these, but, yeah, I'll do the same thing as Commissioner Saunders.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I've got an easy one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Jeffrey Curl?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll nominate Curl. He
doesn't have a choice.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah.
March 28, 2023
Page 200
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then we -- and then we
can make Larry -- Larry Magel one of the -- you want to do the five
commissioners? That takes care of the five commissioners. Do you
want to do that in a single vote? Did I hear you wanted to do --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion that those
five appointees be named.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I second it. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously.
So just as a reference, which ones are still hanging loose,
District 3 and District 4?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. But my understanding is that
District 3 and District 4 were going to get back to me as to who they
want.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So there's Dalby and Calamari, we
still -- they're the at-large we have to vote in.
MR. KLATZKOW: So you'd have two more at-large.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So let's do Dalby and
Calamari as the two at-large.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I mean, I had nominated
John Symon. So is he -- he's in contention for at large, too, right?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
March 28, 2023
Page 201
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So we have three at-large seats and
these three nominees?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, it's not -- you have three at-large
seats. You had three nominees for it, but the nominations were for
John Symon, Michael Dalby, and James Calamari. But you guys
just made Larry Magel an at-large member. So that takes from the
three down to two.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I thought -- maybe then I
misspoke or I heard the wrong thing. I thought Larry was going to
be the District 4 person possibly. I don't -- if we make him one of
the at-large seats, then it bumps one of these three people. I really
am really strong on John Symon. So I -- I mean, I did a deep dive on
his background and spoke with him and whatnot. So I'd like him to
be one of the three, or at least I nominate him to be one of the three.
I think we kill all the birds with one stone if we make Larry the
District 4 person, not at large, and then we keep these three whose
names are here at large, correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: But it's Commissioner Kowal's nomination
to make.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, it really was. I thought I
was nominating him for the seat he already had, which was the
District 4 representative.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. You were keeping Larry in
the seat he had.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Commissioner Saunders said
something about Larry would make a good at-large, and I don't
think -- and I think that was where we went, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want -- do you want
Larry to be your appointee?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's what I initially said.
March 28, 2023
Page 202
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Do you want Larry to be
your District 4 appointee?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That was what I initially
nominated.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. That makes sense.
Okay. Can we amend that by -- District 1 would be Ms. Olsen,
District 2 would be Mr. Keegan, District 3 is still to be determined,
District 4 would be Magel, Larry Magel, District 5 would be Curl.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Curl.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And then the three at-large would
be Symon, Dalby, and Calamari.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So that passes
unanimously. So the only one hanging loose there is District 3.
And there's several applicants, so we'll let -- and as we said,
Commissioner Saunders, at your discretion. So we'll have you just
get with the County Manager, and we would -- we'll support either of
those two candidates. It's at your discretion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you need an --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right, great. Thanks.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do we need -- do you need
an actual letter of appointment from me for Curl, or are we good?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, we're good now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. But, I mean, in the future
March 28, 2023
Page 203
you can just send an email to the County Manager and say I appoint
this person, and then that's how this thing would have been populated
a little bit more, correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, no. You've still got to vote on it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, no, no. I know. But if they
would have gotten a note from you, there would have been more
names on it.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. Everybody got notes from me. I
just didn't get replies.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I gotcha. Okay. Okay. Next?
11A?
Item #11A
AWARD CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO.
23-8058, “GOLDEN GATE CITY TRANSMISSION WATER
MAIN IMPROVEMENTS - PHASE 1A - GOLF COURSE” TO
ACCURATE DRILLING SYSTEMS, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF
$4,008,590, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AGREEMENT. (PROJECT #70253) (COMPANION
TO ITEMS #11B AND #11C) (MATT MCLEAN, PUBLIC
UTILITIES ENGINEERING DIVISION DIRECTOR) (DISTRICT
3) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED
Item #11B
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, EX-OFFICIO OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT, AWARD
REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 22-
8042 FOR “CEI SERVICES FOR GOLDEN GATE CITY
March 28, 2023
Page 204
TRANSMISSION WATER MAIN IMPROVEMENTS,” TO AIM
ENGINEERING AND SURVEYING, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF
$1,817,423.25, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN
THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT. (PROJECT #70253)
(COMPANION TO ITEMS #11A AND #11C) (MATT MCLEAN,
PUBLIC UTILITIES ENGINEERING DIVISION DIRECTOR) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL - APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: We're going to 11A and 11B as companion
items. 11A is a recommendation to award Construction Invitation to
Bid, No. 23-8058, Golden Gate City Transmission Water Main
Improvements, Phase 1A, Golf Course, to Accurate Drilling Systems,
Inc., in the amount of $4,008,590, and authorize the Chairman to sign
the attached agreement.
Its companion is Item 11B, recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners ex-officio of the Collier County Water/Sewer
District award Request for Proposal -- or Request for Professional
Services No. 22-8042 for CEI Services for Golden Gate City
Transmission Water Main Improvements to AIM Engineering and
Surveying, Inc., in the amount of $1,817,423.25, and authorize the
Chairman to sign the attached agreement.
Mr. Matt McLean, Public Utilities Engineering Division
Director, is here to answer questions.
MR. McLEAN: There's also 11C as another companion to it as
well.
Item #11C
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO REALLOCATE $15,000,000
FUNDING WITHIN CWS BOND #2 PROCEEDS FUND (419)
March 28, 2023
Page 205
AND TO REALLOCATE $1,173,628 DEBT SERVICE FUNDING
BETWEEN THE CWS OPERATING FUND (408), WATER
IMPACT FEE FUND (411) AND WASTEWATER IMPACT FEE
CAPITAL FUND (413). (COMPANION TO ITEMS #11A AND
#11B) (MATT MCLEAN, PUBLIC UTILITIES ENGINEERING
DIVISION DIRECTOR) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL - APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Oh. Well, 11C is a third companion.
Thanks, Matt. Recommendation to authorize budget amendments to
reallocate $15 million worth of funding within CWS Bond No. 2
Proceeds Fund 419 and reallocate $1,173,628 debt service funding
between the CWS Operating Fund, Water Impact Fee Fund, and
Wastewater Impact Fee Capital Fund.
And Mr. Matt McLean is here to answer questions on all three.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We can vote on both of those all
together?
MS. PATTERSON: Vote on all three of them together.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All three of them together, okay.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I have a question. So we're
going to pay $1.8 million to AIM Engineering and Surveying to do
the thinking. So what happens two years from now if I see on an
agenda item that AIM Engineering missed a utility line underneath
the ground, and they want us to come back and -- who -- if we're
paying them this amount of money and they miss something, are we
liable to pay for it, or are they liable to pay for it?
MR. McLEAN: This is Matt McLean, your division director
from Public Utilities.
The contractor for us for AIM Engineering's component is for
March 28, 2023
Page 206
the construction, engineering, and inspection services. They are our
eyes and ears out on the field to make assurances that the
underground contractor that's selected for the installation of the
pipelines is following all the specifications and design parameters
throughout the course of the construction.
We also independently bring in our quality assurance and
quality controls inspections team to also take a look at it along with
our project management team to make sure that everything is built in
accordance with all of the respective design parameters and codes
accordingly.
So we don't expect that to be an issue. Now, you never know.
I mean, there is a -- no one is ever perfect. We do have projects
where we run into issues and, collaboratively together, when we do
those, we solve those issues as we go throughout the course of it.
But the CEI provides us a great level of professional expertise in
the construction, engineering, and inspection services to make sure
that we're doing what we need to do in order to provide the best
services for the county and the users.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. I'm not saying that's not a
smart way of doing it. I'm just trying to wrap my head around that
amount of money for a watchful eye.
MR. McLEAN: One thing I would --
MR. KLATZKOW: It generally averages 10 to 15 percent on
your contracts, and you're within those parameters on this one
because it's a multi-phased project.
MR. McLEAN: Right. For clarification, the contract before
you for AIM includes not only the Phase 1A portion, which is the
$4 million construction costs, but also when we brought to the Board
the construction contract back in November for Phase 2, that was a
$6.78 million construction contract. And currently we have out on
the street right now the final phase of the transmission project, which
March 28, 2023
Page 207
is an engineer's probable opinion of cost of 15 million.
So, in sum, all of the projects to provide the foundation for the
water lines within Golden Gate City is essentially about a $26 million
construction contract, of which AIM's contract will handle all the CEI
services, which is approximately 7 percent of that overall
construction contract.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. That helps me. I
remember why I was wondering this, because I remember, oh, two
months ago when -- the Goodlette-Frank project, there was a pipe in
the ground that we didn't catch, and so they were asking us to come
back and approve more funding for it. That's -- that's what I was
thinking about, so I was just asking that question. But thanks. It
makes more sense to me.
MR. McLEAN: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion for
approval of all three.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. McLEAN: Thank you.
Item #11D
March 28, 2023
Page 208
THE PURCHASE OF PROPERTY, BOILER & MACHINERY,
TERRORISM, AND WATERCRAFT HULL INSURANCE AS
OUTLINED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY AND
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO
COMPLETE ANY APPLICATIONS OR OTHER DOCUMENTS
NECESSARY TO BIND COVERAGE AND SERVICES FOR A
ONE-YEAR PERIOD EFFECTIVE APRIL 1, 2023.
ADDITIONALLY, APPROVAL TO PURCHASE A THIRTY (30)
DAYS COVERAGE EXTENSION IS REQUESTED IN THE
EVENT IT IS REQUIRED FOR THE PURPOSES OF AVOIDING
A GAP IN COVERAGE AND TO BETTER NEGOTIATE THE
TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE RENEWAL. (MICHAEL K.
QUIGLEY, DIVISION DIRECTOR, RISK MANAGEMENT) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11D is a recommendation to approve
the purchase of property, boiler and machinery, terrorism, and
watercraft hull insurance as outlined in the executive summary and
authorize the County Manager or designee to complete any
applications or other documents necessary to bind coverage and
services for a one-year period effective April 1st, 2023.
Additionally, approval to purchase a 30-day coverage extension
is required in the event it is required for the purposes of avoiding a
gap in coverage and to better negotiate the terms and conditions of
the renewal.
Mr. Michael Quigley, the acquisition director for Risk
Management, is here to answer questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, do you
have a question?
March 28, 2023
Page 209
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My only question was, is
there a capacity for us to do this longer than a year?
MR. QUIGLEY: There has been times, but at this particular
time in our -- I guess the way things are today, I don't see that. In
my past history, we have done multiyear contracts, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Okay. Well, I
would like for us to explore that more if we could. And be that this
is just for a year, I want to have this discussion in advance of two
weeks before the expiration of the current policy. This is set to
expire, I think, in April of next year, if I'm not mistaken.
MR. QUIGLEY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So I'd like to have this
discussion in the early part of the year, at least several months in
advance.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes. I feel like I'm behind the
eight ball on it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, you know -- and I'll just say
to the County Manager -- and we've had this conversation. We've
had quite a few of these come up. And there's been sometimes
reasons for it. But, you know, approving something that's about to
expire in seven days isn't the approved solution. So let's, like, really
keep a lookout for those. And, you know, it's not the most efficient
way to do business. Especially if we have an issue with it, you
know, we feel like we're backed in a corner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion for
approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion for
approval.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's seconded.
March 28, 2023
Page 210
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Got a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously.
11E.
Item #11E
AN AMENDED AND RESTATED DISPOSAL CAPACITY
AGREEMENT WITH OKEECHOBEE LANDFILL, INC., A
FLORIDA CORPORATION, FOR A TERM OF FIVE YEARS,
BEGINNING JULY 1, 2023, WITH ONE FIVE (5) YEAR
RENEWAL OPTION, PROVIDING FOR THE TRANSFER AND
DISPOSAL OF BIOSOLIDS, AND TO RESERVE AIRSPACE
FOR STORM GENERATED DEBRIS FROM A NATURAL
DISASTER. (KARI ANN HODGSON, P.E., DIRECTOR, SOLID &
HAZARDOUS WASTE MANAGEMENT DIVISION) - MOTION
TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11E is a recommendation to accept
and approve an amended and restated disposal capacity agreement
with Okeechobee Landfill, Inc., a Florida corporation, for a term of
five years beginning July 1st, 2023, with one five-year renewal
option providing for the transfer and disposal of biosolids and to
March 28, 2023
Page 211
reserve air space for storm-generated debris from a natural disaster.
Ms. Kari Hodgson, your director of Solid and Hazardous Waste
Management Division, is here to answer questions.
MS. HODGSON: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, my name's Kari Hodgson, your Solid Waste director.
I prepared a presentation, but I also am available to take any
questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What was amended?
MS. HODGSON: The major parts of the amendment for the
contract are that it locks prices in for the first 18 months of the
contract. It also provides a minimum and a maximum CPI in the
contract and has a five-year term agreement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We didn't have that before?
MS. HODGSON: We did not have minimum or maximum
CPIs, and we did not have a price locked in for 18 months. It was an
annual price change.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. That's good. That's better.
Questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I make a motion to
approve. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Motion and a second. All
in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
March 28, 2023
Page 212
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. HODGSON: Thank you, Commissioners.
Item #11F
A POLICY FOR THE USE OF THE WORKFORCE HOUSING
LAND ACQUISITION PORTION OF THE VOTER-APPROVED
LOCAL GOVERNMENT INFRASTRUCTURE ONE-CENT
SALES SURTAX. (CORMAC GIBLIN, INTERIM DIRECTOR,
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND HOUSING DIVISION) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11F is a recommendation to adopt a
policy for the use of the workforce housing land acquisition portion
of the voter-approved local government infrastructure one-cent sales
surtax.
Mr. Cormac Giblin, interim director of Economic Development
and Housing Division, is here to answer questions.
MR. GIBLIN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Cormac
Giblin, interim director, Economic Development and Housing.
I've got a four-slide show if you would like me to give you a
little background on this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Why don't you give us the
background.
MR. GIBLIN: Sure. The voters approved on November 6th,
2018, the 1 percent local option surtax -- infrastructure surtax. Part
of that funding was set to some community priorities, one of which
was workforce housing land acquisition. Twenty million of that
surtax was set aside.
There are certain statute requirements in that infrastructure
March 28, 2023
Page 213
surtax statute. One is that the county own the land, and the second is
that at least 30 percent of the residential units that are built on that
land be affordable at the 120 percent or less of median income level.
The AHAC formed a subcommittee to recommend some policy
highlights for the Board to consider. Some of those highlights are on
the slide in front of you now. They include a preference for plans
that contain a greater percentage of affordable units and those that
target lower incomes. It's -- the recommended policy is also to
discourage properties that are in flood zones, evacuation zones, or
those with wetlands and other environmental concerns.
It encourages shovel-ready properties with zoning,
infrastructure, and transit routes already in place.
And then the last one, the AHAC was specific in that they
determined that -- or that they felt that it was important to look at the
whole picture and not just send our real property team out looking at
land but also to combine the land with the developer in the project to
make sure that we can move it forward in the most expeditious way
possible.
The AHAC formed that subcommittee, as I mentioned. They
met a few times this spring, and they approved the policy
unanimously at their meeting last Tuesday.
And with that, the staff recommendation is to adopt this policy
for the land acquisition using the surtax dollars. The next steps
would be that we would work with the surtax committee, the
procurement division, and the real property division to seek and
solicit properties and development partners for the use of this money.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. The only -- go back
to the previous slide, please. All right. One more. That one.
The second bullet point down, discourage properties in flood
zones, evacuation zones, or with wetlands and other environmental
March 28, 2023
Page 214
concerns. I don't want to discourage anything. I would rather we
consider everything and then make business decisions based upon
economic circumstances with regard to mitigation, wetland
mitigation, habitat mitigation, evacuation zones. But the whole -- in
my personal opinion, the whole doggone county is an evacuation
zone if the right storm comes about. So it would be my wish that
this policy be amended so that we're not discouraging properties in
flood zones.
MR. GIBLIN: And that is taken into account in the way that
the policy is recommended in that it's a scoring system. So if
someone brings to you a piece of property that does not have wetland
considerations or other impacts, that property would score more
favorably than one that does, but it does not take any off the table
automatically.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I mean, if it had the word
"negate" or "ignore" or "disregard properties," you know, that would
be a little bit more --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. I understand.
I just -- it would -- I would -- you want to say something, Jamie?
You're looking like you do.
MR. FRENCH: Commissioner, thank you. For the record,
Jamie French with -- your department head for Growth Management
and Community Development.
As Cormac said, this is only scoring criteria. All of these
would be brought forward to the Board for consideration for your
final decision. Staff is only looking at that with regards to, if you've
got mitigation credits -- and this is consistent with your already
adopted Growth Management Plan, especially with affordable
housing criteria, that when they're looking for density bonuses, we're
primarily focused on that -- we're going to call that that Coastal
Fringe -- because those are areas that your Growth Management Plan
March 28, 2023
Page 215
speaks clearly that this is not where you would want to see affordable
housing bonuses go forward.
So this lines up with your already current adopted program but,
yet, it is your decision as far as what you would exercise those dollars
for. And staff only grade to this criterium [sic], which would be
available for you at discussion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And in that light, when it
comes back, there -- every piece of property that is developable -- in
Collier County is not going to come to us en masse. So this scoring
system discourages properties that are in flood zones or that are in
evacuation zones or that are Coastal High Hazard Areas, wetlands,
environmentally sensitive areas and such.
So I have a concern about the discouraging aspect of what that
is. I think any and all should be brought to -- should be brought to
the committee, reviewed, and analysis done.
Certainly, if we get to a point where we're running out of the
$20 million that we've currently appropriated and need to do
something different, then we can have that kind of a discussion. But
I don't think we should -- at this stage, with the enormity of the need,
I don't think we should discourage anything.
MR. FRENCH: Sir, and we take those comments to heart.
This doesn't discourage. It just gives a lower scoring on staff
criterium, because those type --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why don't you word it that way,
then? It keeps the paragraph, but it says, properties in flood zones,
evacuation zones, or with wetlands and other environmental
concerns, you know, run the risk of scoring lower or whatever the
right words are.
COMMISSIONER HALL: They're still considering properties.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are considered, but can receive a
lower score, or whatever the proper verbiage is.
March 28, 2023
Page 216
MR. FRENCH: Commissioner -- I'm sorry, thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is that a better way to do it?
MR. FRENCH: That is exactly how it's identified in the
scoring criterium. Perhaps the presentation doesn't match the actual
attachments that were provided to you for consideration, but this is
just on a basis of scoring points which would -- that staff would
consider higher criterium. So, for example, if you've got wetland
areas where we know you're in a slough, for example, and you're
going to -- and the developer -- or the development would be required
to buy mitigation credits, you may only have -- out of a nine-acre
tract, you may only have three acres that's developable.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So this is a -- this is a loose
summary of the whole thing, right?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: These are just bullets. This isn't
the actual verbiage, right?
MR. FRENCH: This is not the verbiage. And, again, this is a
scoring criterium, and staff would give rationale as we brought this
back to you.
Now, as Cormac said, it still has to go to your surtax committee
for blessing before we could -- but this gives us now an avenue to
access the $20 million that the voters put in place in 2018.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Leave it alone.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could I ask a quick
question?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir, Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Jamie, in terms of the state
and federal incentives that are available for this type of housing, do
they prohibit those types of projects in wetlands and high hazard
areas?
MR. FRENCH: No, sir, but it would just be their cost of
March 28, 2023
Page 217
development on the return on investment. They would still be
required -- they may not qualify for the density bonuses, but they
would, in fact, require those same mitigation credits that they would
pay back to the Department of Environmental Protection to offset the
filling in of wetlands or -- and they would still be required to go
through the same Environmental Resource Permitting through the
DEP.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall -- oh, I'm
sorry.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. It's basically a scoring
matrix for every property just for a broad picture from a 50,000-foot
view. Like a property that would already have the zoning, already
have utilities, already have -- ready to go and be shovel ready would
score a lot higher than a wetlands property that might have to be
doctored up a little bit.
So I want to -- I want to send the kudos out to Cormac and
Jamie and Jaime and Mike, because what they came up with was
really brilliant, and it's really a good tool to take this -- you know, to
have a tool to take the 20 million and be able to start applying it.
We've had this money now, and now it's time to start applying it.
And it's -- this is -- I think it's a great tool, and it's been well
though out. I agree with the comments about changing the word
from "discourage properties" to "consider properties."
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't change your language.
Just leave it alone.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Like you said, those are -- those
are shortcut bullets.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're not precluding
anybody. We're not precluding anybody. This is just a rating
system.
March 28, 2023
Page 218
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We have public comment?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We have one registered speaker,
Michael Puchalla.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Who?
MR. PUCHALLA: Who?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Never heard of him.
MR. PUCHALLA: Good afternoon. A long day.
For the record, Michael Puchalla, executive director with the
Collier County Community Land Trust, and as you can imagine, here
to speak in support of this process. We -- and just so you know kind
of what's anecdotally happening, we do have a number of developers
that specialize in housing affordability that are out there finding the
subsidies and are looking for the incentives to come in and build in
Collier County, and they're excited to see what we can do with this.
And I really believe that, moving this initiative forward, you're
going to see activity, and it's going to be the type of activity that we
are looking for in terms of the encouraging that mix of affordability.
It's -- the developers that I've spoken with that are interested in
working with this process, they are looking at producing units that
give us that range that go all the way down into the low income.
They're the tax credit type of developers that work with the state
SAIL program. The Live Local Act is adding a significant amount
of money to the SAIL program. So these developers are ready, and
this is just one further incentive that the land and the ability now to
maybe bypass some of the zoning -- rezoning, that takes a long time.
We're going to see activity. So we do have developers already
queued up, ready to make applications.
So I strongly -- and also the land trust is ready to come in and
partner on this, if it's appropriate, working with staff so that we can
be as involved as necessary to make sure that this doesn't become
another burden on staff to have to manage the ground leases.
March 28, 2023
Page 219
So just thank you again for the time, and I'll answer any
questions that you might have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, you have a
motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I do. I make a motion to adopt the
policy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Fourth.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. GIBLIN: Thank you, Commissioners.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, before we move on, I'd
just like to take a minute to thank Mr. Giblin. We transitioned the
Housing group and Economic Development over to the GMD group a
couple of months ago, and shortly thereafter, the sitting Housing
director, Jake, departed, and Mr. Giblin stepped up and has taken the
reins and really helped us out with this policy, amongst other things,
in the affordable housing group. So, thank you, Cormac.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think we're throwing Cormac a
little bit too much love. I knew him from my previous life before I
was a commissioner, and I can tell you a couple things. I mean, he's
March 28, 2023
Page 220
okay. I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10, he's about a 6 if you round up.
No. I love you, brother. And thank you. That's really
appropriate from our County Manager as we're juggling people
around and, you know, we're seeing our senior leaders step forward,
and that guy is subject-matter expert on a whole bunch of things
so -- and so is that team. Thank you.
MR. GIBLIN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I still know a few things about
him, though, if anybody wants to -- you probably do, too.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You've got to get a public
records request.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I might. I might.
Item #11G
THE 2023 STRATEGIC PLAN WITH THE INCLUSION OF
MINOR CHANGES BASED UPON DIRECTION RECEIVED AT
THE BOARD WORKSHOP ON FEBRUARY 21, 2023 AND
PROVIDE DIRECTION ON BOARD AND COUNTY
MANAGER'S OFFICE PRIORITY INITIATIVES. (ED FINN,
DEPUTY COUNTY MANAGER) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON:11G is a recommendation to adopt the 2023
strategic plan with the inclusion of minor changes based upon
direction received at the Board workshop on February 21st, 2023, and
provide direction on Board and County Manager Office priority
initiatives.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manager, is here to present
briefly.
March 28, 2023
Page 221
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, Mr. Finn, do you have slides
with the updated changes, or can you -- are you going to summarize
those, or -- right? This is the update to the big meeting we had
where we wordsmithed a few things and rejuggled some priorities,
correct?
MR. FINN: Yes, sir, absolutely correct. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman, Ms. Patterson. Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager.
Maybe Troy can help me out. Maybe he can't.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Here comes Jesus.
MR. FINN: It's all right. I can help myself. I usually do.
Okay. Get our spelling right on this. We're all set.
We're here today to adopt this strategic plan incorporating the
Board's direction and input. That workshop was held on
February 21. We're looking at Agenda Item 11G. This
discusses -- the item itself discusses the changes that the Board made.
The attachments include the strategic map, as we call it, as well as the
PowerPoint on the entire presentation. There's also -- on the
strategic map and attached to the items are the priorities that the
County Manager and her senior staff assembled, a total of 36
priorities.
I'll be happy to take any questions, do any further presentations.
We're prepared with all that documentation if you'd like.
I can tell you that our next step and the top priority under the
Board priorities is the strategic plan integration into the budget that's
being developed now. Instructions have already been given out and
have been followed by your staff as they prepare their -- what we call
their enhanced funding requests. Those funding requests are kind of
the tip of the iceberg. They have been instructed to explain how and
describe in what way they will advance the strategic plan. And we
are going to similarly integrate the strategic plan into the balance of
the budget. So that -- you should see that. And the rest of the
March 28, 2023
Page 222
reporting is going to be developed as we move forward.
Having said that, if there's anything further the Board would like
me to specifically get to, I'll be happy to do it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Move for approval.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Got a motion and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. FINN: Thank you very much. And I do appreciate the
Board's input at our workshop. It was very helpful. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Just because I'm a little anal, under
vision, there's two spaces between community and in, where it says
"community in America." I'll keep you honest.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just so you know --
MR. FINN: May I have another, sir? Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- I'll accept a little
wordsmithing issues just to get it done, and I appreciate it getting
done.
MR. FINN: Thank you, sir. I certainly was encouraged to
bring it back quickly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. FINN: And I appreciate that.
March 28, 2023
Page 223
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Glad I see that pyramiding --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just ask you. So what are
we going to do with this? Are we going to -- this is going to hit our
website? We're going to -- we're going to have a -- we have a
marketing campaign, right, for this?
MR. FINN: The strategic plan we'll get onto the website, and
we are working on how we're going to exactly communicate those
top priorities that the Board just looked at. And Mr. Neiman and
myself are kind of working on a strategy that we'll be implementing
very shortly.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, great. Next?
MR. FINN: Very good. Thank you, sir. Next item, ma'am?
Item #11H
AN AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE WITH: (1)
BRIAN BLOCKER; (2) MAXIMO GUERRA AND SIGRID
GUERRA; (3) ANDREW J. RUBEN AND NANCY L. RUBEN,
TRUSTEES OF THE ANDREW J. RUBEN AND NANCY L.
RUBEN REVOCABLE TRUST, DATED JULY 30, 2021; (4)
TAMERA SPARKMAN, FORMERLY KNOWN AS TAMERA
GIBSON-DEMELLO; AND (5) PAUL MICHAEL ZANI AND
ASHLEY CHRISTINA ZANI UNDER THE CONSERVATION
COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION PROGRAM, AT A COST NOT
TO EXCEED $371,300 AND ACCEPT A PROJECT STATUS
UPDATE. (ED FINN, DEPUTY COUNTY MANAGER) -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11H is a recommendation to approve
an agreement for sale and purchase with, one, Brian Blocker; two,
March 28, 2023
Page 224
Maximo Guerra and Sigrid Guerra; three, Andrew J. Ruben and
Nancy L. Ruben, trustees of the Andrew J. Ruben and Nancy L.
Ruben Revocable Trust dated July 30th, 2021; four, Tamera
Sparkman, formerly known as Tamera Gibson-Demello; and, five,
Paul Michael Zani and Ashley Christina Zani under the Conservation
Collier Land Acquisition program at a cost not to exceed $371,300,
and accept a project status update.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manager, will kick off this
presentation.
MR. FINN: Thank you, ma'am.
Sir, this is a relatively routine item. We just thought we'd take
a little time and give you a quick update on the overall status of the
three cycles that are in play right now.
There are -- as I mentioned, there are three -- three acquisition
cycles in play. Cycle 10 -- Cycle 10 there are 20 properties that have
been closed. Fourteen properties, after the Board approves the five
today, will be lined up for closing, and there are 20 properties that are
pending BCC approval. So those contracts are working their way
through, and they'll be presented to the Board in much the same way
as we just presented the five for today.
Cycle 11A is a little more recent. Sixteen appraisals are in
process. Four property appraisals are under review. And the last
one is most recently the Board approved the Cycle 11B, and four
properties have dropped out, and 16 properties are -- we have
appraisals in process, various -- various stages of being in process.
I'll mention to you that Conservation Collier will be back before
you presenting their annual report on the 25th.
The five properties that we're talking about today are kind of
identified on this eye chart. And I'll make it a little bigger if I can.
These properties are -- have all been agreed to at the appraised price,
and they are ready to move forward with the Board's approval today.
March 28, 2023
Page 225
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Motion to approve. Do I
have a second, or do you have a -- I'm sorry. Commissioner
McDaniel, go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no, no. I'll second your
motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. No, did you have a
question?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. I was going to make at
motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Make a motion to approve.
Second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. FINN: Thank you very much.
Item #12A
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE A SETTLEMENT
AGREEMENT WITH NAPLES GOLF DEVELOPMENT, LLC,
FOR SETTLEMENT OF A BERT HARRIS CLAIM FILED
PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTES §70.001, RELATED TO
APPLICATION OF THE COUNTY’S GOLF COURSE
CONVERSION ORDINANCE ON THE LINKS OF NAPLES
GOLF COURSE - MOTION TO DENY BY COMMISSIONER
March 28, 2023
Page 226
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO -
APPROVED (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 12A,
formerly 16K1. This is a recommendation to approve and authorize
the Chairman to execute a settlement agreement with Naples Golf
Development, LLC, for settlement of a Bert Harris Claim filed
pursuant to Florida Statute 70.001 related to application of the
county's golf course commercial ordinance on the Links of Naples
Golf Course. This item was moved to the regular agenda by
Commissioner McDaniel's request.
County Attorney Klatzkow.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I can start, or I can answer your
questions, sir. Your prerogative.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You go ahead and start, and
I'll ask my questions if you don't address them.
MR. KLATZKOW: It's your prerogative, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It is my --
MR. KLATZKOW: I put a location map up on the viewer so
that the public could have some idea where this is. It's a golf course
off of 41. You can see the development pattern around the golf
course. So it's not like the golf course is in the middle of nowhere.
We got served with a claim on the Bert Harris Act. The way
that works is that before a claimant can file a Bert Harris Act, he has
to give a notice of claim which gives the parties the opportunity to sit
down to see if they can't negotiate some sort of settlement. There's a
90-day period for that, and it took pretty much all 90 days plus an
extension to get there.
The settlement, we believe, at three units per acre is probably
less than they would get if they went through the full rezoning
process, and it ends the -- it ends the issue. It's a $6 million claim.
March 28, 2023
Page 227
If I thought the claim had no value, I wouldn't be coming here to you,
but I do think there is some value to that claim. And by accepting
this settlement, we end the county's exposure on this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So the reason that I brought
this forward was -- and I'm not a lawyer, so I look at things from my
perspective. And my perspective is I'm not understanding how a
Bert Harris Claim taking can transpire when no request for a change
of use is in the process.
And I understand that the theory of the golf course conversion
ordinance that I expressed concerns about when we adopted it years
ago gives the perception of a taking, but without seeing the site plan,
without a request for a deviation from an existing ordinance, without
seeing how the project's going to lay out, I'm concerned about
negotiating a settlement on a perceived taking that hasn't transpired.
MR. KLATZKOW: Under the act, you do not have to first file
for a development order, and so that requirement is not part of the
act.
I can tell you that there is exposure here. This gets rid of the
exposure. We worked with our development services team, Mike
Bosi and his people. The development standards, they're within the
parameters of what we normally would grant. They have to file the
LDC. The big "get" here is it's three units per acre, which I feel is
highly reasonable for this area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So I'm settling a lawsuit that
hasn't existed with an offer of density that hasn't been requested.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, we don't have to settle this,
but they will file a claim. As part of that, we'll get involved in
litigation. As part of that, there will be a court-ordered settlement,
and we'll be here again in six months to a year on something that is
probably substantially similar to this, after having spent some costs.
Either way, as part of Bert Harris, you're going to be seeing a
March 28, 2023
Page 228
settlement offer. Now, if I thought the claim had no merit, I'd tell
them to pound salt, which would be my recommendation, but I think
this claim has some merit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My concerns are what they
are. I am -- first of all, what happens if we repeal the golf course
conversion ordinance?
MR. KLATZKOW: It will not affect this particular matter
because they were impacted by that ordinance. But if we repeal it,
you will not see another one after that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you brought that up
several times. And, again, I'm not arguing with our lawyer; please
understand that. I'm just -- I'm looking at it from a real estate
developer's standpoint. I'm a real estate developer. I look at
this -- their claim is a claim of damage for a taking of property rights
that can be amended within the bounds of the golf course conversion
ordinance that we have.
If Mr. Bosi brings me an ordinance that says I have to meet
certain criterium, side-yard setbacks, green space, so ons and so forth,
what happens when the developer wants to change from that? They
ask for a deviation, and that deviation, then, can fulfill their
theoretical taking that we're not taking by an alleged claim when I
could actually see with specificity -- because this isn't the first. You
know, we've got multiple projects that are coming at us.
And my question is, wouldn't it be more prudent for us to not
settle this at this particular stage? And, again, I don't know. I'm
just having trouble understanding or seeing the validity of the taking
when there hasn't been an ask.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, I'm happy to litigate this.
If we're successful, we will have some costs involved, but we'd be
successful. They would then come in for a rezone, and they would
probably be asking for this or more. I think at the end -- however
March 28, 2023
Page 229
way we go on this process, I think the settlement is the way this
property's going to develop. It is not going to stay as a golf course.
So we could do this -- I'm happy to litigate this. I am telling
you we have some exposure, but I'm happy to litigate this. But my
best-case scenario after two, three years, four years of litigation is a
rezone that asks for this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And I am hesitant in
starting a process of a negotiated settlement on something that could
be negotiated when they ask for the rezone when they actually have a
taking that transpires because of the implementation of the ordinance
for the golf course conversions that we have. That, to me, is
semantics that can, in fact, be justified.
MR. KLATZKOW: This is just the way the Bert Harris Act
works, sir. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. It would be my
preference for the first -- there would be a denial of a development
order, but that's not how the statute works.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, this isn't a development
order. This is a piece of property that's utilized as a golf course that
hasn't come in for a rezone. That hasn't even --
MR. KLATZKOW: They came in for a pre-app, and staff said
you can't do it because you'd have to comply with the golf course
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So they have to comply with
the golf course ordinance.
MR. KLATZKOW: And they're saying --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And they don't want to
comply with the golf course ordinance, so in a normal process, then
they would come back and ask for deviations from that ordinance or
the side-yard setbacks or any of the things that we have set up as the
development criteria.
MR. KLATZKOW: Or they can choose to move forward with
March 28, 2023
Page 230
the Bert Harris Act and claim $6 million because maybe they can get
more money that way than they can actually developing the property.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm not a big fan of the Bert Harris
Act, but it is what it is.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I am a -- I mean, I don't -- I'm
not a fan nor am I an opponent of it, because property rights reign
supreme with me.
I'm just having trouble with the logistics of this circumstance
when an actual taking has not transpired, and a settlement's being
offered up with a zoning density that's -- that's being offered up in
advance of a -- of what I know of as an application.
Now, you just shared new information with me that there was a
pre-application that was submitted, and staff told them that they
couldn't do what they wanted to do because of the golf course
conversion.
MR. KLATZKOW: They would have to comply first with the
golf course ordinance, and there's that 100-foot buffer requirement.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And in the event they
couldn't/didn't want to, did they explore a deviation request?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. All we got was a notice of claim.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct, which is -- which
is --
MR. KLATZKOW: And I'm having the same thing with
Riviera, by the way --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- where rather than going through the
process, I'm getting a notice of claim. It's just the way the Bert
Harris Act works. It's frustrating, from my standpoint.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Well, it almost seems
to me -- well, two things are glaring at me. The first is we need to
give consideration to the repealing of the golf course conversion
March 28, 2023
Page 231
ordinance, number one, and allow these projects to come through on
a case-by-case basis for a zoning request and protect the community
as best as we possibly can. That's number one.
Number 2, this is -- they certainly may be within the bounds of
the law to ask for a Bert Harris Claim, but I have trouble seeing
where they have a validity in the claim when they haven't asked for
any kind of a deviation away from what the stipulations are that are
set forth in the code.
Every single development -- not every single development.
Many of the developments that come before us have deviations. It's
a -- it's a common occurrence that transpires in my world regularly.
I can't say every single one, but virtually all of them have some kind
of a deviation, and without that being tested in advance of a
$6 million claim for a taking that hasn't transpired on an unzoned
piece of property, I'm having difficulty in seeing how that claim can
even be given validity.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I'm not telling you we don't have any
viable defenses to this. But I am telling you it's a $6 million claim.
If they choose to pursue it, there will be a settlement discussion. I
will be coming back with some sort of proposal substantially similar
to this. If we win this thing, they're going to be rezoning, and then
we can go through that process, and you're going to wind up with
something like this, or if I lose it, we'll be buying a $6 million piece
of property here, in essence.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't know. How do the
rest of you feel about this -- how do the rest of you feel about this?
Again, this is just -- this is Commissioner McDaniel sitting over here
looking at it from my --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I agree. No, I agree with you,
Commissioner. I mean, I'm lit up. I just --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Commissioner Hall, and
March 28, 2023
Page 232
then Commissioner Kowal, and then me.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, I hear the frustration. I think
the same thing. I mean, there's no real ask, so there's no real taking.
So what basis do they have? But that's the nature of the Bert Harris
beast. They don't have to have a real reason. They get to make a
notice of claim for the $6 million.
And so I think what the County Attorney's saying is, we have
this golf course conversion in play right now, and so until we got rid
of it, that's the liability that we have, and we can settle now for free or
settle later for mucho money. And so --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, we just approved
$20 million for the Affordable Housing Land Trust.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are you going to use it for this?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm just talking. I'm not -- I
don't -- I don't want to have to go buy a piece of property. I'm -- and
I don't disagree with you. It's just my --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, it sticks in my craw.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My argument, my discussion
point is I understand the law. I understand the Bert Harris rights.
But for someone to make a magnanimous claim that they've been
damaged by $6 million when they haven't tested the system to see if
the system can be adjusted to effectuate what their actual request was,
there's no damage. The application of an ordinance without testing
the ordinance to see if it can be deviated from, should be deviated
from, will be deviated from should be the litmus test for us to
determine whether or not --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So are we prematurely settling?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think we are.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What's the market value of the
March 28, 2023
Page 233
property?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Six million.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No. That's what the claim is. I
just wondered what the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, do you have
something to add? Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No. I just -- I understand the
situation our attorney's in, you know, because of the Bert Harris, and
it gives them the right to file the lawsuit, but it doesn't give them the
right to win the lawsuit. And I think in any -- you know,
jurisprudence in a court of law that he has to prove that we've harmed
him in some way or just, you know -- and I think that's for somebody
else to decide. If he's going to file a lawsuit, then he has to also run
the gamut that he has chances of losing that lawsuit also if his case
isn't strong.
And I understand where Commissioner McDaniel's coming from
that -- what have we done to diminish his ability if he hasn't asked for
anything yet? There's no ask. So I just -- it's kind of like putting
the cart before the horse again, like we talked about the Riviera Bert
Harris lawsuit, and we all sat up here and said it sounds frivolous,
you know. And it's almost the same situation. So, I mean, that's
kind of where I'm at.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I'm -- I don't know.
Do you want to hear from the lawyer for the owner of this piece of
property --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- just to have his take on it?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
MR. WRIGHT: Thanks, Commissioners. Good afternoon.
Jeff Wright here on behalf of the property owner.
March 28, 2023
Page 234
Just a couple things I wanted to clarify. I'm with the Henderson
Franklin law firm.
And a chronology: This kicked off back in 2021 when we
approached staff and said what would be involved -- it's an ag parcel
with a conditional use that allows golf, golf course, and that's how it's
been for decades. And so we approached staff and said, we're just
looking at options. Could you convert this to residential?
And we got the impression that staff would resist that, so we did
a zoning letter, and the zoning letter -- I wrote down the date -- we
received on June 28th of 2021 that says the conversion ordinance
applies to this property.
And we didn't think that was right, so we asked staff, are you
sure about that? And they said, yeah, you guys have to comply with
the conversion ordinance. You have to do intent to convert. You
have to file a conversion application, et cetera.
So we looked at the ordinance and it said, this conversion
ordinance applies if your proposed use, in our case residential, is not
permitted, it's not conditional, and it's not accessory.
Well, like I said, we're in ag zoning, so it's a -- you're allowed to
have houses in ag. So residential is a permitted use. So right away
we said, well, that conversion ordinance does not apply to our
situation because residential is a permitted use.
And staff said, we think it does.
So we filed an application for a plat, and we got the response,
you need to convert. We were left with no choice, so we filed the
Bert Harris Claim. It was timely filed, and that's how we got to
where we're at today.
So there were two application attempts, and both of them we
were told that we need to comply with the conversion ordinance, and
we, frankly, don't because it doesn't apply because residential is a
permitted use.
March 28, 2023
Page 235
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. WRIGHT: I just thought that would be maybe a helpful
clarification for the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, very helpful.
So I'm going to -- I'm going to make a motion to deny this
settlement offer and, if need be, go to court to determine -- to
determine whether or not there is an actual Bert Harris Claim here.
In all sincerity, it sounds like, in error, the applicant was advised of a
conversion on something that wasn't a requisite of such.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I second it. Any other comment?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes 4-1 that we are
going to deny it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then I'd like to -- if I
can, while we're on the subject matter, I'd like to find out what
the -- what the intention of this board is with regard to the review of
the golf course conversion ordinance because it, in all candor, seems
to me to be adding up to be more issues with our community than
what its intent was to help.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't think it's working, your golf course
ordinance, the way it was intended.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Could I ask for it to be
brought back at our next meeting for a review?
March 28, 2023
Page 236
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think I voted in affirmative
on that, so I have that right to bring it back and have it --
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, we're past that point. You can do it
anyway.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So I would like
to -- if it meets with the pleasure of the Board, to see that again next
month or --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'd entertain it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- first meeting in April.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. What's next?
MS. PATTERSON: Item 15, staff and commission general
communications.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THE MEETING
Item 15A, public comments on general topics not on the current
or future agenda by individuals not already heard during the previous
public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have none.
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 15C, staff and
March 28, 2023
Page 237
commission general communications. I'll look at Mr. Rodriguez.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: No, ma'am.
MS. PATTERSON: We have nothing.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Thank you, but nothing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: While everybody else is
talking, hunt up Ed Finn.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to go to Commissioner
Saunders for comment. Sir, anything to add?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. No, I have
nothing to add. Thank you for your courtesy of letting me
participate --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I hope you feel better.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- via telephone. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I do want to bring up one thing to
see if there's an appetite for the Board. There is a state statute that
passed two years ago, HB1339, that says that we as a local board can
override the Growth Management Plan or our Comprehensive Plan
for affordable housing projects where it's not zoned for that. Like if
there's a commercial project, or if there's something that makes sense,
we can -- we don't have to go through the public process. We can
just go ahead and adopt that.
I brought it up to Mr. French. Mr. French said it's never been
done. It is state statute, but it's never been done. And I said, well,
let's be the first.
It's another avenue -- it's another avenue that we have
that's -- that we can use for -- and there's one project that I have in
mind. Michael Puchalla brought it to my attention, the Ekos project.
March 28, 2023
Page 238
It's not a -- it's something that we could take a look at and implement
that state statute, and just because it never has been done, I just
wanted to see if there was an appetite to entertain it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think it's a great idea, and
I'm really glad you're here because it will get him from -- quit asking
me how many other people in the state have ever done it before?
Because I'm like, I don't care. I want to -- let's be the first. So
happy to have you.
I'd like to see -- and, again, it's going to be on a
project-by-project basis. And so if it's outside the parameters of our
GMP and it goes through the public process and all that sort of thing,
I'm totally fine with it. Happy to have you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, I'm ready.
Ed, I want an update on the -- and I'm getting tired of the
comments that are coming at me about the Ochopee Firehouse.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want an update on that,
please --
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- now.
MR. FINN: Yes. We've been working diligently with the
attorney for Greater Naples Fire District to try to achieve some
solution on that. The fire district is meeting on the 30th or the 31st,
special session, to approve the terms that they want to present to us.
We have met with them on several occasions. Most recently they
kind of adjusted the goal posts a little bit, and it was the suggestion of
the County Attorney that they kind of huddle among themselves and
decide what they need. So we've kind of been working, following
along with that.
March 28, 2023
Page 239
So on the 30th or 31st when they meet, we'll be there to discuss
it with them, and hopefully we'll have some clear direction. The
County Manager has been clear in that we cannot disrupt public
safety down there, nor disrupt the residents, nor disrupt who's
involved. We've got Ochopee, Port of the Isles, as well as
Everglades City.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All of them.
MR. FINN: Our intent is to maintain the appropriate level of
public safety, particularly fire service. EMS would continue either
way. But the fire service also provides for medical as well. That is
our intent.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I want to -- if it meets
with the Board's pleasure, I want a full report on this at our first
meeting in April, which is two weeks in advance of their supposed
withdrawal.
MR. FINN: It would be our -- again, our intent to bring to the
Board on the 11th an agreement. That's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Eleventh. Is our meeting on
the 11th? Forgive me, I might have -- I said the wrong date. My
bad. You know what I meant.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir, we will do that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Obviously, like you said, there's
several fire stations.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir. There's two-man stations -- two-man
stations and, essentially, a maintenance storage facility also in
Ochopee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have we looked at this from
a legal perspective with regard to the exposure? Because my
understanding is their board was given inaccurate information, misled
that we were delinquent under the terms of the existing contract.
March 28, 2023
Page 240
MR. KLATZKOW: I will tell you that this is all on them, not
your staff, all right. This is a management agreement. They don't
know that they want this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They don't want it. They
have --
MR. KLATZKOW: All right. So if they don't want this, they
may decide to walk away. So we told them, just give us a deal.
What do you need to stay here to manage this? And that's what
we're waiting on.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Have we reviewed
the terms of the contract with them from a legal perspective? And
do they have exposure to the county for their lack of fulfillment under
the terms of the contract? Because my understanding, there were
requisites under the terms of the contract that they were supposed to
have performed. They did not perform those requisites.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't believe they're in breach of the
contract.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yet.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't think they're going to be in breach
of the contract. The contract will be -- the contract will be ending,
all right. So the decision is, do they want to continue managing this
for us or not? All right. If they say we don't want to do this
anymore, then staff's going to have to come up with Plan B.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And there was also,
my understanding under the terms of the existing agreement, that
they -- that they were supposed to have already assimilated the
Ochopee district into the Greater Naples Fire District, and they have
not done that yet.
MR. KLATZKOW: They have not done that yet. And, quite
frankly, when this deal was done, Len Golden Price and I thought
exactly what would happen here, because Ochopee's a money loser,
March 28, 2023
Page 241
which is why we did the management agreement to maintain control
of all the assets in case we ever had to step back. This is not a
surprise to me what they're doing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand that, but does it
not -- is that not a breach of the existing contract --
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- if they did not fulfill that
portion of it?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, it's not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So it's a voluntary
assimilation?
MR. KLATZKOW: The deal was they were going to take over
Isles of Capri and Ochopee and amend their fire districts, all right.
Isles of Capri was a money maker. Ochopee was a money loser.
They have decided that that was a bad deal. They don't want to do
it. So they're not going to be amending their service area. They're
just not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. Did they assimilate
Isles of Capri?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is it Isles of Capri or actually the
Port of the Islands?
MR. KLATZKOW: Isles of Capri, and they did bring it into
their district.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They did bring that into the
district?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But they didn't bring
Ochopee?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
MS. PATTERSON: Sir, they made an attempt, and they will
tell you that that attempt at the legislature failed. Now, we can't
March 28, 2023
Page 242
comment on --
MR. KLATZKOW: How half-hearted it was.
MS. PATTERSON: -- on what exactly that involved. But
they did make an attempt, and they have discussed future attempts,
but that's all part of this discussion.
MR. FINN: So the agreement -- the agreement said that they
were responsible for making that effort and, technically, they made
that effort. They did not succeed. It was -- initially it was our
desire to continue down that path. That was one of our primary
objectives with them, and they have decided that's not to their
satisfaction.
Now, I'm going to quickly say that Greater Naples Fire District
has provided good, high-quality service down there. They've been
down there for in excess of eight years. They do a good job. They
provide the kind of level of service that I think those people out there,
the folks out there deserve.
It's my thought that we put the best possible face on it. The
increase in cost was a result of two things, collective bargaining and
industry standards. When that contract was initially developed, there
were two firefighters on a piece of apparatus. The collective
bargaining agreement as well as industry practice suggests strongly
that they should have three people on an apparatus, and they have
shifted in that direction, and that largely accounts for the cost
increase that we're looking at.
Now, it is substantial, but this is a low-density area. It's quite
large. It's quite a large service area, and at the same time you have a
few areas that are fairly dense, Everglades City and the Port of the
Isles.
Certainly, this is not perfect, but I kind of hate to see us throw
the baby out with the bath water on this one until we can kind of get
this thing settled and see what they come back with.
March 28, 2023
Page 243
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're not throwing anybody
out with anything. It needs to get settled. I don't think we need to
be threatened in any way, shape, or form, and I'm feeling backed into
a corner right now, and I don't feel rightfully so.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was represented in an open
public meeting that the county was deficient and delinquent for years
under the terms of the existing contract. It was asked if
Commissioner McDaniel knew that we were delinquent, and it was
represented that I knew. I don't want to have this discussion
anymore. I want to get this thing settled in any way, shape, or form
that we can, give the people of Port of the Isles and the Ochopee area
some semblance of order that they know they're going to have the
necessary fire protection, and then go forward.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm very disappointed that the
facts were misrepresented, because you know when I was -- when we
were all up in Tallahassee, this is when that information came to me,
and that's specifically the reason that I was asking if we were
delinquent under the terms of the existing contract, and we are not.
Is there delinquencies because of policy changes, because of
collective bargaining, because of administrative expenses and so ons
and so forth that -- there are deficits under the terms of the contract,
but they're to the delinquencies.
MR. FINN: You are correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Somebody write that -- oh,
Terri wrote that down. Did you hear him say I was correct?
Okay. Thank you, sir.
MR. FINN: You're very welcome. Thank you.
March 28, 2023
Page 244
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep. Item No. 2, in advance
of the Army Corps of Engineers' study for beach enhancement, beach
renourishment, dunes, so ons and so forth, my suggestion is sooner
than later we appoint another advisory committee to watch this go
through it and have -- I don't want it to be -- I don't want it to be the
previous advisory committee. If we have to extinguish that one, I'd
like it to go away, because it was too big, too voluminous, too
cumbersome, and I'd like a committee of five, one from each direct
appointed, and then two at-large. Two at large or two from each
district?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Two at-large.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Two at-large, okay.
So one from each -- I'd like to do that sooner than later and have
that orchestrated up by our next meeting, everybody submit their
names of representatives that they would like to serve on this
committee, and then we'll get that committee established up to be
able to watch and engage with the Corps of Engineers and help us
with the public input that was direly lacking, misinformation,
disinformation, and a whole bunch of things that transpired last time.
So if you-all can whip up a human being to serve on that
committee, then we'll work out the parameters of that on April 11th.
Okay with that? I've got to get head nods out of you, because
Amy won't do anything --
COMMISSIONER HALL: What would that
subcommittee -- what would that committee be called?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I haven't gotten a name for it.
It's a community review of the Army Corps study for beach
renourishment and beach --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Beach renourishment.
MR. KLATZKOW: Do you want an ad hoc committee?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Army Corps, like, Advisory
March 28, 2023
Page 245
Committee or something like that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Pick a name. All I want's
the committee.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Beach Dudes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The Beach Dudes, Dudettes.
We have to be -- we have to take --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, can you or
someone send us a tasker so that we don't -- this doesn't fall through
the crack? Can we have a spreadsheet with names missing?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, and we'll also get you the exact
name of the study so that it doesn't -- because the Corps does a lot of
things, so we'll get you the exact study name.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And there's -- and there's -- it's not
just picking a random person. There's specific people we want to
target. I mean, they need to have some knowledge and, you know,
they need to be serving us well on this committee. So you've got to
do your due diligence to advertise it. If you don't have an exact
name at the tip of your tongue, try to shake your trees in your district
to find a person who would be a good add.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And they're poking around;
they're poking around. They're over in Immokalee doing a study on
Lake Trafford and the drainage that comes to the reservation.
They're over here on the berm and the emergency berm that we've got
going on. And they're also coming in with information with regard
to the -- the old study that they had and cost feasibilities and so ons
and so forth, and I want to get ahead of all that so that -- with the
community so that the information's being disseminated and we
get -- we're in -- we're in advance of what's being promoted.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. We'll get you a -- we'll get
you tasker on that one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We need to get consideration,
March 28, 2023
Page 246
give direction to staff to solicit for a deputy director of sports to be
headed up underneath the EDC -- not the EDC. The TDC, forgive
me -- the old EDC, the Economic Development Council -- headed up
underneath the TDC.
Again, it's an enhancement of the Paradise Coast park and a
coordinating effort to help better coordinate all sporting events that
are coming to our community.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could I jump in real quick
here on that one?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think probably about 18
months ago, maybe even longer than that, we created that position.
Dan Rodriguez was working with some folks to make sure that all of
our sporting events were coordinated throughout the county so that,
you know, if there was some big event that we were having --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I remember. Yes, sir, I
remember.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah -- we wouldn't have it
at the same time. For example, of a big event that the City of Naples
was having. I'm not -- I know that was put together. I don't know
what the status of that is, but that may already be something that's
kind of in place. Is Mr. Rodriguez there, by any chance?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He is, by chance. And just
so you know, I didn't pull this out of the air. I remember that
discussion we had with regard to that position, but it was suggested to
me that I bring it up as an item under comments to nudge -- to nudge
to make sure that we're going forward on that path.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Thank you, Commissioner.
For the record, Dan Rodriguez, your Deputy County Manager.
Yeah, that position's created. It was placed on hold pending the
outcome of the sale. And during our last one-on-one with you,
March 28, 2023
Page 247
Commissioner McDaniel, you kind of gave us the nod to move out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And if it -- you know,
I'm not beginning and the end with regard to the decision-making as
to how we go on our transactions, but a nonbinding letter of intent is
never an issue to be making business decisions on, any transactions
that we have that are ongoing in the works, business operations.
So my vote is lift the hold, help us find somebody, and I don't
want us to be making business decisions based upon some nebulous
letter of intent offer to purchase that's out here. We've got one on
the Immokalee airport. We've got one on my next subject item that
I'm going to go to, so -- and I have heard that there have been
inklings of holding off on moving forward with our business plans on
this premise of a sale. No.
If we -- if we -- if we get a sale and it meets to the economic
viability of what we think we ought to be doing for our community
and we hire a sports director and we don't need them anymore, then
we'll deal with that when that, in fact, comes. But I don't want to
hold off on making our facilities, our community the best that it can
possibly be.
And, Commissioner Saunders, your memory's a little better than
I. I knew we had it out there, and it created -- or set the position up
some time ago, but I didn't realize it had been 18 months, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And there were several
people in the hospitality business that were working with
Mr. Rodriguez to come up with a description of that position. So I
think that that's all in place. Quite frankly, I thought that had already
been filled, so I'm glad you brought it back, because I didn't realize it
was put on hold.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I wasn't either. And just for
further direction, I don't want any of our business decisions being
made operationally around supposition of a nonbinding letter of
March 28, 2023
Page 248
intent. It's not a deal till it's a deal.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Understood, Commissioners. And
Commissioner Saunders is correct. He actually started that
initiative. I think it was less than 18 months ago, but it was finalized
this past fall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just so you know,
Commissioners Saunders, he winced when he was correcting you on
your timeline. He did want to say that, but he winced when he said
that.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: There were a lot of reviews involved in
that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, it may not have been
18 months. It may have been 17-and-a-half months.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Thank you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There we go.
Last, but not least, we did receive, and I'd like to pursue it -- we
did receive a letter to purchase -- when we developed the 47 acres
that we called the Randall Curve -- that's the one where the 400
apartments are and the commercial is out front. We got an acre of
land given to the county. And the developer -- the developer of that
project has expressed an interest in buying that piece of property, and
I'd like to move that forward to -- he hasn't said -- I don't think -- I
haven't seen a number. Has anybody seen anything other than that
expression --
MS. PATTERSON: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- of an interest?
So with direction from the Board, our staff can go forward and
bring that to a head, and then we can -- it will ultimately come back
to us for a decision, but I just want to give direction to staff to pursue
that.
MR. FINN: Good to go.
March 28, 2023
Page 249
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And that will be all
from Commissioner McDaniel, maybe.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have nothing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. You don't need to come to
the podium, Mr. Finn, but, you know, I think it's critical that we make
sure that we're not saying our going-in position is we don't want a
break in service in these fires stations, but we, in fact, don't have a
break in service in these fire stations. So, I mean, you know, if it
looks like there's some sort of anomaly or we're slow leaked on the
decision and there's an issue, I mean, somebody shoot up a flare
immediately because that's critical.
Having said that, I don't know if we have an update on our
marine stores. You know, that contract's about to expire, the store at
the Port of the Islands, store at Caxambas. You know, there again,
regardless of who gets the contract, don't want a break in service
there. You know, those marinas are really busy right now, and it's
season. Do you have an update on that? Either Tanya or you, Dan,
do you know anything offhand?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I know they're in the process of
developing those RFPs to go back out, so we could come back with
an update on that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, do we feel confident we're
not going to have a break in service?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: We won't. If we need to, we can extend
the existing contracts.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But -- I mean, but the person might
not want it extended. They might feel shunned that they're not going
to get the contract, so they could actually walk out the door when the
contract expires, right? I mean, they could do that.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: They could do that, but we have a pretty
March 28, 2023
Page 250
good relationship with them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, you won't if we don't renew
their contract. If they feel like we're going with a lower bidder or
somebody else or we think that, you know, they got too big of a piece
of pie, they could walk right out the door, you know. And similar
things can happen at the fire station as well. I know it's not apples to
apples. But we just want to make sure on those two service lines we
don't have a break in service, because the fire stations and those
marine stores are servicing a lot of people right now.
What do you have to add, Tanya?
MS. WILLIAMS: Good afternoon. For the record, Tanya
Williams, Public Services department head.
As Deputy County Manager Rodriguez said, we are actively
working contingency plans. The marina's contract has gone back out
for RFP. We received one bid. It still remains sealed. We put it
back out, and it will be open until April the 4th.
Your parks staff have been working contingency plans. With
Caxambas still down, that is and has been a huge draw for the
marina's success. We, unfortunately, have Caxambas down. It's
going to be down for a while, so that may impact our ability to get a
vendor to take the remaining four marinas.
So we're working multiple plans behind the scenes right now.
It is not our intent to, you know, drop services, but there may be a
point in time, especially with the fuel sales -- you know, we're taking
a very close look at it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I mean, I'm really
concerned during season here if we did drop services. You've
got -- you know, if the marina's full of boats, but we can't sell gas.
The marina's full of boats, people can't buy water, you know, that sort
of thing, so -- okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask you a quick
March 28, 2023
Page 251
question? On the contract --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- are we giving credence to
individual bids for the individual marinas?
MS. WILLIAMS: That has been a thought process, too,
Commissioner McDaniel. That's an idea that is on the table
depending upon if we get any more response when we reopened the
bid. If we don't see any further response, we are prepared to break
those marinas up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I really think it would be
advantageous to break them up, because someone might get scared
off why they don't want all four; they can't man all four. A couple of
them aren't big moneymakers, you know, that sort of thing, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The picking and choosing
winners and losers. I would -- was the RFP set up for one bid for all
the marinas?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, it was.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I would question whether
that's such --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Really take a look at that sooner
than later, yeah. That might have worked out, you know, way back
when.
I was just going to mention I met with some senior leadership
from the Paradise Coast Sports Complex, or they wanted to meet with
me about Memorial Day. So just, if you don't know already, they're
planning something really big, you know, when -- and really
multifaceted at the sports complex for Memorial Day.
And remember the difference between Memorial Day and
Veterans Day. Veterans Day is a celebration. Memorial Day is
much more solemn. And they know that. But it's going to be little
bit of everything. Memorial Day can also be an extremely patriotic
March 28, 2023
Page 252
day as well. It's just -- you know, but it does have a different feel
than Veterans Day. But they have some good ideas.
One thing I just wanted to mention, and I mentioned it to them, I
have a lot of town hall meetings in neighborhoods that are around the
sports complex. A lot of people still don't even know it's there. I
open every town hall meeting saying, did you know the county built a
120-plus-million-dollar sports complex called Paradise Coast, raise
your hand. And I just had a -- I just had a town hall meeting and had
over 200 people in it, and I think eight hands went up.
One of the things I mentioned to the leadership team there
was -- and we've talked about this before. The name really
doesn't -- doesn't market that footprint very well. We're doing
concerts out there, car shows. And we say Paradise Coast Sport
Complex. It sounds like a stadium.
And granted, it is a lot of fields but, you know, I think the
football field there, the big stadium, has seen more non-football
things than football things. It had Ben Allen out there. It had a
fireworks show. It had a car show.
So, you know, people that I talk to even that have heard of it but
have never been there, they think it's some sort of just, you know,
like I said, sports complex, and I think, you know, we're trying to
make it more successful so it's more than that. So it's not something
we need to vote on here, but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What's your proposition?
Do you want to rename it?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, Paradise Coast
Entertainment Complex or something. I mean, I don't think it's
named properly. And, you know, when I talk with citizens, those
that have heard of it, like I said, they're like, oh, I never go out there
because that's where they play football and soccer. It's like, well,
they actually might be bringing -- you know, they might be having a
March 28, 2023
Page 253
Beetles reunion there on Memorial Day or, you know, there's a lot of
other things that are being planned and, you know, it probably wasn't
named -- I mean, and maybe in the early stages when, you know, we
had a whole different crew here, it was going to be this big sports
complex, and it is. But with the new contractor that we have, they
have a much bigger vision. And, really, the things that are the -- I
don't want to say the moneymakers, but the things that aren't, you
know, big, huge losers at times are the things above and beyond the
sports stuff.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let me tell you what my
thoughts are. My thoughts are, why don't I bring it up at the next
TDC meeting? Because, again, a lot of our advertising in dollars
that are spent are "Come to paradise," paradise this, paradise that.
So it's pairing into the name that's already there. But let's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And it could be something close.
It's not -- you know, you don't necessarily start it from scratch, you
know. But Paradise Coast, you know, the logo is very paradise-y.
You know, you look at it, it's palm trees and whatnot. But the sports
complex thing is the one thing I think that's confusing a lot of folks,
especially with our new -- our renewed direction of, hey, that's
ground zero for all kinds of things, right? Yeah, I think that would
be great to hear what the TDC had to say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll bring it up and get an
answer from our staff as well, and marketing folks, as to how it pairs
together, and --
MR. RODRIGUEZ: With the realignment of the sports
complex under the -- Paul Beirnes with the TDC, he's actually
looking at that branding. So he and his group are already looking at
some ideas. You had mentioned that before, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You'll make a note to remind
me so that I do bring it up, please.
March 28, 2023
Page 254
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I like their ideas for Memorial
Day. I'm helping them in a couple areas, too, to try to pull some
things in from some veteran contacts I have.
And then I'll just end it by saying, I really appreciate all the
commissioners and the staff, and even, you know, the citizens are all
gone. But if anybody is in the sound of my voice, you know, we had
a real professional detail-oriented discussion today on the healthcare
ordinance and the resolution, and that's the way they should go. You
know, whether people were on the pro side or the negative side or
what have you, I mean, everybody was very professional. And what
I would say is, we're obviously going to hear this on April 11th. So I
would just encourage all the commissioners -- we're going to get tons
of emails from people. It doesn't mean you have to answer each one.
You don't have to answer any of them. Everybody does sort of their
own thing. But it behooves us to at least read what the citizens are
saying so that when we come back here on the 11th we have even
more information from our constituents. We've got, you know,
varied -- varied ideas from folks that feel a certain way and, in the
end, obviously, you know, we'll decide here with that input, but that's
going to be an important meeting on the 11th. But it was really great
discussion and worth staying a little bit extra, and I appreciate
everybody's input, and especially that of our citizens.
Having said that, anything else?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Adjourned. Thank you.
*****
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
Kowal, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
March 28, 2023
Page 255
Item #16A1
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR ARDENA, PL20210000845, AND AUTHORIZE THE
COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE
FINAL OBLIGATION BOND IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF
$4,000 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR THE DEVELOPER’S
DESIGNATED AGENT.
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR AZURE AT HACIENDA LAKES - PHASE 3,
PL20200002390, AND AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER,
OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE FINAL OBLIGATION BOND
IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF $4,000 TO THE PROJECT
ENGINEER OR THE DEVELOPER’S DESIGNATED AGENT.
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR
SOLUNA, PL20220006195.
Item #16A4
ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER UTILITY
March 28, 2023
Page 256
FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF THE
WATER FACILITIES FOR TERRENO AT VALENCIA GOLF
AND COUNTRY CLUB PHASE 1A-1 (WATER ONLY),
PL20220008880.
Item #16A5
RESOLUTION 2023-50: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF ESPLANADE
GOLF AND COUNTRY CLUB OF NAPLES BENVENUTO
COURT, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20150002533 (FP) AND
APPLICATION NUMBER PL20150002208 (SDP) AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $289,141.69.
Item #16A6
RESOLUTION 2023-51: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF PRICE
STREET PLAZA, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20170001084 (FP)
AND APPLICATION NUMBER PL20150000343 (SDP) AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $105,488.61.
Item #16A7
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE PURCHASE OF PARCEL 101FEE
March 28, 2023
Page 257
REQUIRED FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE VETERANS
MEMORIAL BOULEVARD EXTENSION (PHASE 2), PROJECT
60198. ESTIMATED FISCAL IMPACT: $3,411,575. THE
SOURCE OF FUNDING IS IMPACT FEES AND/OR GAS TAXES
Item #16A8
SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
STAFF TO BEGIN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE
TOP FOUR RANKED FIRMS RELATED TO REQUEST FOR
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 22-8054, “CEI
CONTINUING SERVICES AGREEMENT FOR
TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING,” SO THAT PROPOSED
AGREEMENTS MAY BE BROUGHT BACK FOR THE BOARD’S
CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE MEETING.
Item #16A9
RESOLUTION 2023-52: A RESOLUTION TO HOLD A PUBLIC
HEARING TO CONSIDER VACATING TWO UNIMPROVED 30-
FOOT-WIDE PUBLIC RIGHTS-OF-WAY, DESCRIBED AS
AVENUE “B” AND FIRST STREET, ACCORDING TO THE
COL-LEE-CO TERRACE SUBDIVISION PLAT, AS RECORDED
IN PLAT BOOK 1, PAGE 32 OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS
LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF U.S. 41 BETWEEN
FREDRICK STREET AND PALM STREET IN SECTION 11,
TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA. (PETITION VAC-PL20220000374)
Item #16A10
March 28, 2023
Page 258
THE EXPENDITURE OF TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX
FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF $300,000 FOR A PURCHASE
ORDER TO CROWDER-GULF JOINT VENTURE, INC. TO
PROVIDE REMOVAL OF MARINE DEBRIS AND OTHER
BIOLOGICAL DEBRIS ON THE BEACHES AND WATERWAYS
OF COLLIER COUNTY DUE TO RED TIDE, APPROVE ALL
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS, AND MAKE A
FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM. (PROJECT
NO. 90077)
Item #16A11
THE COLLIER AREA TRANSIT TITLE VI PROGRAM UPDATE
ENSURING EQUAL ACCESS TO ANY PERSON WITHOUT
REGARD TO RACE, COLOR, OR NATIONAL ORIGIN AND
AUTHORIZE ITS SUBMITTAL TO FEDERAL TRANSIT
ADMINISTRATION (FTA).
Item #16B1
THE COLLIER COUNTY COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS REVIEW AND ACCEPT THE 2022 ANNUAL
REPORTS FOR THE TWO COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
COMPONENT AREAS: BAYSHORE GATEWAY TRIANGLE
AND IMMOKALEE AND PUBLISH THE REPORTS ON THE
APPROPRIATE WEBSITES.
Item #16C1
March 28, 2023
Page 259
AWARD INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 22-8088 23-8088
(PER AGENDA CHANGE SHEET), “COLLIER COUNTY
SHERIFF’S SPECIAL OPERATIONS BUILDING FLOORING
REPLACEMENT” PROJECT, TO WAYNE WILES
FLOORCOVERINGS, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $104,900,
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT.
Item #16C2
A FIRST AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 14-6188 WITH
TETRA TECH, INC., FOR “FEMA ACCEPTABLE MONITORING
FOR DISASTER GENERATED DEBRIS,” TO EXERCISE THE
LAST RENEWAL TERM THROUGH JULY 7, 2024, TO ADJUST
THE FEE SCHEDULE RATES EFFECTIVE AS OF OCTOBER 4,
2022, THROUGH JULY 7, 2024, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AMENDMENT.
Item #16C3
AWARD INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO. 22-8034, “FIRE
SAFETY SYSTEMS REPAIR, MAINTENANCE &
REPLACEMENT,” TO DYNAFIRE, LLC, AS THE PRIMARY
VENDOR, AND NATIONAL SECURITY FIRE ALARM
SYSTEMS, LLC, AS THE SECONDARY VENDOR, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENTS.
Item #16C4
CHANGE ORDER NO. 15 TO COLLIER COUNTY SPORT
March 28, 2023
Page 260
COMPLEX PHASE 2.1 AND 2.2A UNDER THE SIXTH
AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 17-7198 WITH
MANHATTAN CONSTRUCTION (FLORIDA), INC.,
RESULTING IN A NET REDUCTION IN THE AMOUNT OF
$142,028.01.
Item #16C5
TO 1) APPROVE THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT AND ACCESS
AND UTILITY EASEMENT TO ALLOW VB BTS, II, LLC,
ACCESS TO ITS PROPOSED COMMUNICATIONS TOWER
THROUGH PALM SPRINGS NEIGHBORHOOD PARK AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE SAME ON
BEHALF OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS; 2)
DIRECT THE COUNTY MANAGER OR HER DESIGNEE, TO
RECORD THE ACCESS AND UTILITY EASEMENT IN THE
PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA; AND 3)
DIRECT STAFF TO ENSURE THAT ALL PROPOSED
IMPROVEMENTS DISCUSSED HEREIN ARE PART OF AND
INCORPORATED WITHIN THE SDP (PL20210000655).
Item #16C6
THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 15-6365
WITH CERES ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES, INC. FOR “FEMA
ACCEPTABLE DEBRIS REMOVAL FOR DISASTER
GENERATED DEBRIS,” TO ADJUST THE FEE SCHEDULE
RATES.
Item #16D1
March 28, 2023
Page 261
AN AWARD FROM THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DIVISION OF HISTORICAL RESOURCES IN THE AMOUNT OF
$256,436 FOR RESTORATION OF THE HISTORIC COTTAGES
AT MAR-GOOD HARBOR PARK IN GOODLAND WITH A
REQUIRED ONE-TO-ONE MATCH AND TEN (10) YEAR
RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT AND AUTHORIZE
THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS. (PUBLIC
SERVICE GRANT FUND 709 AND PUBLIC SERVICE MATCH
FUND 710)
Item #16D2
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN TWO (2) FIRST AMENDMENTS TO
THE U.S. HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
EMERGENCY SOLUTIONS GRANTS PROGRAM
SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENTS BETWEEN THE COLLIER
COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THE
SHELTER FOR ABUSED WOMEN & CHILDREN, INC., AND
YOUTH HAVEN, INC., TO MODIFY THE PERIOD OF
PERFORMANCE. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 705)
Item #16D3
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE
SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY
AND PROJECT HELP, INC., UTILIZING U.S. HOUSING AND
URBAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF
$59,000. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 705)
March 28, 2023
Page 262
Item #16D4
AN “AFTER-THE-FACT” AGREEMENT WITH THE AREA
AGENCY ON AGING FOR SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC.,
AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT FUNDING UNDER THE
HOME-BASED COMMUNITY SERVICES-ENHANCED HOME
CARE FOR THE ELDERLY GRANT PROGRAM FOR THE
COLLIER COUNTY SERVICES FOR SENIORS PROGRAM AND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT IN
THE AMOUNT OF $334,665.56. (HUMAN SERVICE GRANT
FUND 707)
Item #16D5
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A MORTGAGE SATISFACTION AS
A RESULT OF COLLIER HOUSING ALTERNATIVES, INC.,
MEETING THE 20-YEAR LOAN TERM AND FULL
REPAYMENT AND APPROVE A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO
RECOGNIZE $34,333.99 IN PROGRAM INCOME FOR THE
STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM
FISCAL YEAR 2022-2023 (SHIP GRANT FUND 791).
Item #16D6
APPROVE THE CONSERVATION COLLIER RATTLESNAKE
HAMMOCK PRESERVE FINAL MANAGEMENT PLAN UNDER
THE CONSERVATION COLLIER PROGRAM.
Item #16E1
AN ASSUMPTION AGREEMENT ASSIGNING ALL RIGHTS,
March 28, 2023
Page 263
DUTIES, AND BENEFITS AND OBLIGATIONS TO
WEATHERPROOFING TECHNOLOGIES, INC., UNDER
AGREEMENT #18-7403, “INDOOR AIR QUALITY TESTING”
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
ATTACHED AGREEMENT."
Item #16E2
AN ASSUMPTION AGREEMENT ASSIGNING ALL RIGHTS,
DUTIES, AND BENEFITS AND OBLIGATIONS TO CAROLINA
FILTERS INC., UNDER AGREEMENT #22-7974, “CARTRIDGE
FILTERS FOR WATER TREATMENT PLANTS” AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT.
Item #16E3
BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE EXECUTED
MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING (MOU) BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE (EMS)
AND COMMUNITY & HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION FOR THE
PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $1,700,000.00, FOR THE PURCHASE OF
EQUIPMENT AND DELIVERY COSTS OF UP TO FOUR NEW
AMBULANCES AND FOUR LIGHT BODY TRUCKS UNDER
THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT, LOCAL FISCAL
RECOVERY FUND, AND AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY
MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO SIGN A LETTER OF INTENT
FOR A NON-BINDING RESERVATION THE PURCHASE OF
EQUIPMENT, PRODUCTS, OR SERVICES UNDER THIS MOU
March 28, 2023
Page 264
FOR ARP21-23, REPLACING SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT
ARP21-19.
Item #16E4
THE SALE AND DISPOSAL OF SURPLUS ASSETS PER
RESOLUTION 2013-095 VIA PUBLIC AUCTION ON APRIL 22,
2023; APPROVE THE ADDITION OF SURPLUS ITEMS
RECEIVED SUBSEQUENT TO THE APPROVAL OF THIS
AGENDA ITEM FOR SALE IN THE AUCTION; AND
AUTHORIZE THE PROCUREMENT DIRECTOR, AS DESIGNEE
FOR COUNTY MANAGER, TO SIGN FOR THE TRANSFER OF
VEHICLE TITLES.
Item #16E5
THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR VARIOUS
COUNTY DIVISION'S AFTER-THE-FACT PURCHASES
REQUIRING BOARD APPROVAL IN ACCORDANCE WITH
PROCUREMENT ORDINANCE 2017-08 AND THE
PROCUREMENT MANUAL, AS WELL AS, TO APPROVE THE
PAYMENT OF $59,120.62 IN EXPENDITURES THAT HAVE
BEEN INCURRED THAT WERE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH
THE CONTRACTS OR PROCUREMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR
ASSOCIATED INVOICES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PAID.
Item #16E6
THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR DISPOSAL OF
March 28, 2023
Page 265
PROPERTY THAT IS NO LONGER VIABLE AND THEN
REMOVAL FROM THE COUNTY’S CAPITAL ASSET
RECORDS.
Item #16F1
RESOLUTION 2023- 53: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES)
Item #16F2
TO 1) ACCEPT THE FINDINGS OF THE BOARD’S
EMERGENCY MEDICAL AUTHORITY; 2) ACCEPT THE
FINDINGS OF THE DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF
EMERGENCY SERVICES; 3) GRANTS THE CERTIFICATE OF
PUBLIC CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY TO MEDTREK
MEDICAL TRANSPORT, INC.; 4) AUTHORIZES THE
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE PERMIT AND CERTIFICATE;
AND 5) APPROVE A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECOGNIZE
AND APPROPRIATE THE $250 APPLICATION FEE
Item #16H1
RESOLUTION 2023-54: A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING AN
EAST OF 951 AD HOC ADVISORY COMMITTEE
March 28, 2023
Page 266
Item #16J1
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN MARCH 2, 2023, AND MARCH
15, 2023, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06.
Item #16J2
REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF MARCH 22,
2023
Item #16K1 – Moved to Item #12A (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16K2
RESOLUTION 2023-55: APPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE
FOREST LAKES ROADWAY & DRAINAGE ADVISORY
COMMITTEE
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2023-56: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
March 28, 2023
AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES)
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 5:34 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
42,
ATTES
CRYStAL7K. KINZEL, CLERK
94444('
Affjej6g to Chairman's
_ 0
These minutes appro P
d by the Board on 5 -3 2.3
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 267