CEB Minutes 03/23/2023March 23, 2023
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, March 23, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Code
Enforcement Board, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Robert Kaufman
Vice-Chair: John Fuentes
Sue Curley
Lee Rubenstein
Kathleen Elrod (Excused)
Tarik N. Ayasun (Excused)
Zully Ruiz, (Excused)
James York, (Absent)
Danny Blanco (Absent)
ALSO PRESENT:
Helen Buchillon, Code Enforcement
Jeff Letourneau, Manager of Investigations
Patrick White, Attorney to the Board
March 23, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning, everybody. The
reason we're starting late is we were waiting for a couple more
members of the Board to arrive; however, we will start.
Notice: That respondents may be limited to 20 minutes for case
presentation unless additional time is granted by the Board. Persons
wishing to speak on any agenda item will receive up to five minutes
unless the time is adjusted by the Chairman.
All parties participating in the public hearing are asked to
observe Robert's Rules of Order and speak one at a time so that the
court reporter can record all statements being made.
And any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board
will need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and,
therefore, may need to ensure a verbatim record of the proceedings is
made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which
the appeal is to be based. Neither Collier County nor the Code
Enforcement Board shall be responsible for providing this record.
I'd like everybody to stand for the Pledge.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen, why don't we start
with the roll call.
MS. BUCHILLON: Good morning. For the record, Helen
Buchillon, Code Enforcement.
Mr. Robert Kaufman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Ms. Sue Curley?
MS. CURLEY: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. John Fuentes?
MR. FUENTES: Here.
MS. BUCHILLON: Mr. Lee Rubenstein?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Here.
March 23, 2023
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MS. BUCHILLON: And Kathleen Elrod is excused, Ms. Zully
Ruiz is excused, and we're still waiting on Mr. York and Mr. Blanco
and Tarik.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So let's go to any changes
in the agenda.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir. We have three stipulations.
The first stipulation under hearings, No. 2, CESD20230000061,
Paradise Enter of Goodland, LLC.
Number 3, CESD, 20210013392, VJL Properties, LLC.
Number 4, CESD20220006947, Caridad Molina Estate.
Those are all the stipulations.
We also have a couple of withdrawns.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Under public hearings, hearings, No. 1,
CESD20220002395, Joel Cruz Alpizar and Maitte Dominguez
Farias, has been withdrawn due to compliance efforts.
Number 5, CELU20230000453, Naples ALF, Inc.
Now under old business, motion for imposition of
fines -- number -- number -- no, we don't have none there. I'm sorry.
Those are the only two withdrawn.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: Just a point of clarification, so No. 5, Naples
ALF, Inc., is withdrawn?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sue, they can't hear you. You've
got to put the microphone closer to you. I know that's a surprise to
you, but Terri can't hear you.
Okay. We're going to start out with the stips, or do you want to
start out with the motions for extension of time?
MS. BUCHILLON: Either/or. I mean...
March 23, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's start with the stips.
MS. BUCHILLON: The stips, okay.
First stipulation, No. 2, CESD20230000061, Paradise Enter of
Goodland, LLC.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. PARADISE: I do.
MR. WILLIAMS: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can you please adjust the mic
closer to you and give us your name.
MR. PARADISE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Give us your name.
MR. PARADISE: James Paradise, Jr., with Paradise Found
Restaurant and Bar, Paradise Enterprises of Goodland.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So you have the right name for the
business.
MR. PARADISE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Why don't we read the
stipulation into the record first. You're Doug?
MR. WILLIAMS: Doug Williams.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Doug Williams. Okay, Doug.
MR. WILLIAMS: Therefore, it is agreed that the parties
shall -- the parties that -- the respondent shall pay operational costs in
the amount of $59.28 incurred in this prosecution of the case within
30 days of this hearing;
Number 2, must obtain all required Collier County permits or
demolition permits and request all inspections through certificate of
completion for described plumbing work performed within 90 days
of this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed until the
violation is abated;
March 23, 2023
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Respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24 hours of
abatement of this violation and request the investigator to perform a
site inspection to confirm the compliance;
Number 4, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So this was a -- the
violation was unpermitted plumbing work?
MR. WILLIAMS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You understand what you
signed as the stipulation?
MR. PARADISE: Yes. Yes, we do, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you have 90 days to
come into compliance. Any problem with that?
MR. PARADISE: I don't believe so, correct. We've got a
plumber coming out to inspect the job again, pull permits. He's
coming out on Thursday next week, so the timing should be good,
yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: I make a motion to accept the stipulation as
written.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
March 23, 2023
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(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay.
MR. PARADISE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Chairman, I may have missed, but did
you-all approve your minutes and modify the agenda as per staff's
recommendation?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I read the minutes.
Anybody have any changes in the minutes?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, someone like to
make a motion to accept the minutes?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Do call.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Second?
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
As far as the agenda, the modifications that Helen read, does
someone want to make a motion to accept the agenda as modified?
MR. FUENTES: Motion to accept the agenda as modified.
MS. CURLEY: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
March 23, 2023
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MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I know Jeff wants to say
something or wait till after the stipulations, and then you --
MR. LETOURNEAU: No problem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next stipulation, No. 3,
CESD20210013392, VJL Properties, LLC.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name on the
mic for us.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Irenevsz Lubaczewski. I go by Eric
Lubaczewski.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, Eric.
And this was a violation of unpermitted windows and doors?
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Correct.
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you want to read this
stipulation into the record for us?
MR. CATHEY: Yes. For the record, Ryan Cathey, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
March 23, 2023
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Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall pay operational costs in the amount of $59.28 incurred in the
prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, abate all violations by: Obtain all required Collier County
building permits or demolition permit, inspections, and certificate of
completion/occupancy for the unpermitted windows and door within
120 days of this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be imposed
until the violation is abated;
Three, respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of abatement of the violation and request the investigator
perform a site inspection to confirm compliance; and,
Four, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me ask a quick question or
two. How many doors or windows are we talking about?
MR. CATHEY: I'd have to look at the case for the number of
windows.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Seven windows.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Seven windows. It's going to take
four months?
MR. CATHEY: This is the time me and the respondent agreed
to, so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand.
MR. CATHEY: It could be done sooner than that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Okay.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Can I add to this?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure, go ahead.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: We had an issue with -- apparently,
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there are shutters on the building, and we could not find the permit
for the shutters that was done by the prior owner. It was filed by the
wrong address. We just obtained the file yesterday from the records
showing that the address was actually changed and everything's good.
So, I mean, we're expecting to file this ASAP.
We only agreed to -- we only asked for four months because we
didn't know where the shutter issue was going to go. But yesterday
the records gave us a full file, and then also we hired an independent
inspector/engineer to certify that the shutters are still good with the
code.
So we have everything right now. We're, you know, assuming
we're going to file this within the next week or so.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, fine. So you have no
problem meeting the four months, then?
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Not at all.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody want to make a
motion on this?
MS. CURLEY: I will make a motion to accept the stipulation
as written.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay.
MR. LUBACZEWSKI: Thank you very much. Thank you.
March 23, 2023
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MR. CATHEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And the last stipulation, No. 4.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir. No. 4, CESD20220006947,
Caridad Molina Estate.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. Let the record
show the respondent is not present.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MARINOS: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Helen, the notification was done?
MS. BUCHILLON: Respondents were notified regular and
certified mail on March 6th, 2023, and it was also posted on the
property and courthouse March 2nd, 2023.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So you want to read the
stipulation into the record for us?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir. For the record, Investigator Chuck
Marinos.
Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall:
One, pay operational costs in the amount of $59.28 incurred in
the prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing;
Two, abate all violations by obtaining all required Collier
County building permits or demolition permits, inspections, and
replacement -- replacement and -- A/C replacement within 90 days of
this hearing, or a fine of $150 per day will be imposed until the
violation is abated;
Three, the respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of the violation -- of abatement of the violation and request the
investigator perform a site inspection to confirm compliance; and,
Four, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
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county may abate the violation using anything method to bring the
violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That the violation was what?
MR. MARINOS: Need permits for a condo kitchen renovation,
along with A/C and a breaker panel.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And the respondent, I
guess, met with you prior to?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir. We met yesterday and discussed
the stipulation, and they agreed to 90 days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Does that seem reasonable
to you?
MR. MARINOS: It certainly does. Two of the permits are in
process. The third one is a cabinet, like for like, with only one
plumbing fixture change-out.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody want to make a
motion on this?
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to accept the stipulation as
written.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thank you.
March 23, 2023
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Jeff, I was kind of treading water until some more members of
the Board showed up for your --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah. I really wanted to make this
statement for some of the newer members of the Board, but I can still
make it at this point for you guys.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Make it now, or you can wait till
later. Either way is good for us.
MR. LETOURNEAU: No. I'll make a speech right now. For
the record, Jeff Letourneau, Collier County Code Enforcement.
There's been some discussion regarding impositions amongst the
county. I don't know if you guys are aware of that. What I wanted
to say is Code Enforcement is bound by Florida Statute to give a
reasonable time on a code case, and we do that in Collier County.
We give what I feel is more than a reasonable amount of time for a
respondent to come into compliance.
If we feel that they're not moving forward, we bring the case
before the Code Enforcement Board or the Special Magistrate. We
try to find -- present the case to you, you find if there's a violation
and, once again, you guys give reasonable time to the respondent at
that point.
If the respondent can't come into compliance in the time you
give them, obviously the fines start accruing, and Code is bound to
bring that -- once it's in compliance or even when it's not in
compliance, Code is bound to bring that back to you for an
imposition of fines.
Now, it's -- you can ask me, or you can ask the investigator
during that process, hey, what do you guys feel. We really can only
answer a couple things, whether or not it was a health and safety
issue or there was a lot of community interest in that particular code
case.
The majority of the responsibility for explaining why something
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took so long belongs to the respondent. They need to come in here
and say, hey, hurricane, COVID, whatever it was, health, they need
to convince you guys that, yeah, the whole amount of fine probably
shouldn't be levied at that time because I had these mitigating
circumstances. Obviously, it's up to you guys to ask the correct
questions if they're not coming forward with a lot of this stuff.
I just wanted to make that point is it's really not the county that
is the deciding factor in that. It's the respondent that needs to tell
you guys why they couldn't come into compliance on time. So that
gives you the basis on whether or not you're going to, you know, levy
the whole fine, part of the fine, or erase the fine, okay?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: That's all I had to say. I thought there
might have been some confusion amongst the newer members here.
MR. FUENTES: So if I'm understanding correctly, violate
everybody is what you're saying?
MR. LETOURNEAU: No, no, no. I just wanted to say that
it's really not -- we're the, per se, prosecutors. We're bound to bring
the whole amount of fine in here. It's really up to the respondent to
convince you guys not to levy the whole amount of fine.
MS. CURLEY: I have one point of clarification. Are you
speaking only of when the -- when we're at the -- at the fining
process? That's --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, the imposition of fines. That's
what -- I'm talking about the imposition of fines, when you have the
responsibility either to levy the whole fine, levy a percentage of the
fine, or waive the fine at that time. But it's really up to the
respondent to tell you why they couldn't come into compliance at the
time you gave.
Are you understanding? It's not really the county's -- you
know, like I said, I could say, yeah, it was a health and safety issue.
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I didn't feel they came into compliance in time due to the safety
factor of it or, yeah, we had a lot of complainants, and it rose to the
level of the commissioners' office and, yeah, there was a lot of
heartburn amongst the neighbors due to this fine. I can say that, but
I can't say -- you know, I don't know the whole circumstances of the
respondent's problems. I don't know their health issues. I don't
know if they hired somebody that ran -- took their money, a
contractor or whatnot. That's up to them to tell you and convince
you of that.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I believe that that's how the Board
actually has been operating for a long time. The respondent gets
several bites out of the apple.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You're notified you're in a
violation, and if you don't do anything, it's prepared for the Board;
that's Bite No. 2. If you don't do anything from when the Board
finds you guilty or innocent, then you come back for the imposition
of fines.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's Bite 3. And then they have
further recourse should they need it.
MR. LETOURNEAU: They do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: But, you know, I just want to say the
county is bound to bring the full amount of fines, and we are asking
for the full amount of fines. It's up to you guys to make the decision
whether or not you're going to do it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Thank you.
MR. WHITE: If I may, if any of the Board are interested on
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exactly what your rules say in regards to this, I'm happy to share that
information with you. The only thing I would say about the county's
position is that typically they have gone above and beyond when you
see one of their summary sheets -- the executive summary sheets by
providing you some of the factors that typically a respondent would
be required to provide evidence about as to the factors that are to be
weighed by the Board both at the time of considering a motion for
reduction or abatement also the factors to consider when you are to
impose those fines.
There's two different sets. One of them's a little shorter than the
other, mercifully. But originally, as we've talked before, the Board
is in a position where it's asked to consider seven different factors, all
to be presented by and through the respondents.
Now, the issue in my mind is not so much one of what the prior
practice has been and whether it's been appropriate or not. I believe
it has. I believe it's been, you know, consistent with what your rules
require, and, you know, given fundamental due process to all the
respondents. The issue has been how the rules otherwise administer
that process in terms of when and how the motion for reduction or
abatement is to be presented to the Board, the timing of it, the
substance of it, meaning it should be in writing as opposed to the
prior practice where many times it's an oral presentation under oath
that you're given the opportunity to consider and knowing that we've
been in the works on revising your rules to try to clarify, simplify,
and accommodate what has actually been more of the prior practice,
the oral presentations at the hearing when the county comes forward
and wants to impose.
And so I'll wrap up by saying, those rules are still pending in
terms of their amendment and consideration and approval by this
Board. Knowing that my last meeting as your attorney will be in
June, and that is likely to be one that may occur remotely because of
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a prior commitment on my part, that leaves us with May and April to
consider those amendments.
And so what I'm saying to you today here in March's hearing is
if it's the Board's direction to go forward with those modifications to
the rules that will clarify, simplify, and be more consistent with your
prior practice, I think it puts the Board in a more solid place should
someone choose in the future to appeal a determination you may
make about imposing fines.
So all of that short version, if there's any questions, basically I'm
agreeing with what the county's position is. I can certainly go
through and, you know, remind you of what the initial set of factors
are that the respondent is supposed to bring forward evidence on and,
ultimately, what the four factors are that you're supposed to weigh
whether you're going to impose or not.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Last spring the modifications to
our rules were made. The Board at that time agreed unanimously --
MR. WHITE: It was a conceptual approval, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- for that. So I'm speaking for
the Board. I think it's time to enact them.
MR. WHITE: All right. I'll work with the County Attorney's
Office and the Special Magistrate, Mr. Neale, to finalize at least the
CEB's version of that to do our best to harmonize the two so that staff
isn't in a position where they're, arguably, trying to follow two
different sets of direction, and we'll hopefully bring that back for
your consideration in April. You have to, essentially, review what it
is that will be in the April docket packet hopefully, and then formally
approve it in May and sign it, because that's what your rules require
is a kind of the two-step process. And if there's no other questions,
I'll --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You'll --
MR. WHITE: -- allow us to move on.
March 23, 2023
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CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So, Helen, why don't we
start with the motions for extension of time.
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
Under public hearing, motion for extension of time, No. 1,
CEROW20220005091, Sunward, LLC.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CATHEY: I do.
MS. WILLIS: I do.
MR. LOEWEN: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You want to move the
microphone so we can hear everybody. And if you would, state your
name, each one of you.
MS. WILLIS: Janice Willis of Supreme Services and More.
MR. LOEWEN: Dusty Loewen.
MS. WILLIS: We are representing Adam Thomas of Sunward,
LLC. We are the contractor.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You're the contractors. You have
his permission?
MS. WILLIS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you are requesting
additional time?
MS. WILLIS: We would request a 60-day extension due to the
fact that we were given one extension on September 22nd, I believe,
by Code Enforcement direct to March 22nd, which was yesterday.
With the hurricane coming and being contractors and other issues that
came about, we weren't able to get to the -- get this finished in time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If you would, move the mic over.
There you go.
Ryan?
March 23, 2023
Page 18
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you have any comments on this
case?
MR. CATHEY: Not really. It was heard back in September.
They were given till March 21st. Compliance just came up.
The owner sent me an email on March 7th requesting an
extension. They're close to being done with this culvert repair.
There was a part that needed to be ordered that wasn't going to be
available in time to meet the original compliance date, which is why
he requested an extension. I think Dusty can explain a little further
on the project. They should be -- as far as their timetable, what
they're thinking to get this thing wrapped up.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sixty days is reasonable in
your estimation?
MR. CATHEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody want to ask any
questions or make a motion?
MS. CURLEY: Well, can we -- the gentleman's here. Can we
ask?
MR. LOEWEN: Yes.
MS. CURLEY: Can you further to what the county said?
MR. LOEWEN: No. If we can get the 60-day extension
granted, that would give us plenty of time. We do have all the parts
and all the necessary equipment to get everything finished up in a
proper amount of time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No safety or health on this?
MR. CATHEY: No.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Make a motion to extend.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Before -- I do want to say that I do
believe that one of the neighbors is here, and we did receive an email
that he was not happy with the length of time it was taking to get this
March 23, 2023
Page 19
project done. I don't know if he wants to speak today or --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We don't have a slip, but
we have no problem.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. VELASQUEZ: I do.
Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Board members.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name on the
microphone to begin with.
MR. VELASQUEZ: My name is Vincent Velasquez.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. VELASQUEZ: And I am the homeowner at 722. And
the corporation that owns the business next to mine, this has been
going on for a year and a half. The county has sent out vacuum
trucks, sent out high-pressured sprayers, and this culvert is just filling
up and filling up with dirt.
I don't know who this gentleman is. I've seen him out there on
my cameras before.
I think Ryan went out there. A complaint was done in
September of 2022. They got six months. I was shocked that they
were actually given six months for a storm drain, a storm drain that
moves the water all the way down from the block sep [sic] all the
way up to 41. I live on the 700 block of 103rd. So this storm drain
runs from Tamiami all the way down to Vanderbilt Drive, while I'm
right in the middle -- while they literally -- well, they didn't, but their
dirt has literally blocked -- I don't know if any of you have gotten
pictures. Maybe nobody sent you any pictures of what I've sent.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We haven't heard the case.
That's --
MR. VELASQUEZ: I apologize. I thought maybe somebody
March 23, 2023
Page 20
had forwarded you all my pictures. I sent about eight pictures to the
county and maybe forward it to you folks, and maybe I'd have been
ahead of this, but I apologize. I thought maybe you knew a little bit
about this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ordinarily, the case would come
before the Board and -- with the photos and any other evidence.
They'll show it on the screens. That's the time we would see that.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Okay, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's going on right now is the
respondent, through their contractors, is asking for additional time
before that case would come before us.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So that's the explanation of the
pictures.
MR. WHITE: My understanding, Mr. Chairman, is that you've
issued an order finding violation, and they had time to correct, and
then an extension. I may be in error about that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, that's correct. So the pictures
were viewed in the past.
When were you hired to resolve the situation?
MR. LOEWEN: What was the date?
MS. WILLIS: We were hired -- I think it was September 10th.
MR. LOEWEN: Twenty-second.
MS. WILLIS: And we applied for a permit originally on
September 20th. We had to -- I hope you can hear me. We had to
reapply under a different scope per the county on 12/1 of '22. Permit
was issued on 1/18 --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. WILLIS: -- of '23.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Is it just clogged? Is that
the problem?
March 23, 2023
Page 21
MR. VELASQUEZ: It actually needs to be replaced. The
county went out there, sir, and, like I said, high-power washed the
inside, or sprayed it. They had a big vacuum truck. Nothing's
moving. They came out. What happened was they left this ditch
open between our homes, sir, and people have driven in there. It's a
VRBO. And they've crushed the end of the pipe, so the pipe is
totally crushed. And all the sand and sediments are in that opening,
and this has been going on for a year and a half. And Collier County
has done all they could to come -- and tried to open this waterway,
sir, so it could run freely the way these storm drains are supposed to.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So when you get rain, is it --
MR. VELASQUEZ: Oh, yeah. It just sits there, and it backs
up. Now, I didn't go around knocking on the door of all the people
above me to come over here and, you know, say, come down here
and let's get this open so all of our water starts running according to
what it's supposed to. But my point is -- also is this thing is stopping
up.
It's a corporation. They don't want to get this done because
they rent that house out nightly, and I mean every night. So they do
not want to take revenue away from this corporation. And that's
why, you know, there's a lot of stalling, a lot of him-humming. And
a year and a half, two years to get a storm -- that is an essential storm
drain.
I'm a little upset, because I can't believe we don't take a little bit
more precedent of when it comes to stormwater drains to be repaired
immediately instead of a two-year process. And we've got to come
and do all this, and now they're asking for an extension when I think
they weren't even legally [sic] to do the job. So they waited around
nine months to find somebody who wasn't able to do the job, and
now they're in here with another scope of the job. And this is a
corporation. This is about money. This isn't about neighbors in a
March 23, 2023
Page 22
community. This is about people making dollars on that business.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: My first inclination is to say you
can't rent the place anymore until you have the violation corrected.
That's my first inclination. But I'd like to hear from the Board.
MS. CURLEY: Thank you for coming.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Thank you, ma'am, for listening.
MS. CURLEY: And I didn't know that we could rent
single-family homes by the night in a residential neighborhood in
Collier County.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Ma'am, it's -- no disrespect. I bet you
600 people have been in that home in nine months. They're
from -- anywhere from one person to 14 people in that house. And
don't get me wrong, I'm into VRBO'ing. Listen, I'll be the first one
to come up here and tell you I love the idea, but there's just no
control. This is probably the worst nightmare where a corporation
like Sunward LCC [sic] out of Fort Wayne, Indiana -- I can't get a
homeowner. I can't get rid of a -- I can't call a business person. I've
got to wait for this gentleman to come up here, and myself, and
speak. And he's about the only official member I've seen, and no
disrespect to him.
There's no management company. There's nobody in charge.
Collier County can't find these folks. And here we are. And no
disrespect to them. They're asking for what they need to. But I
thought about going to the extreme of not having them rent that
home, call Licensing. But, you know, I'm just hoping this gets back
to order, and we can get the flow of water for the people that this
storm drain helps participate. This is part of a storm grid. This
thing is used for all of us to move water. And it isn't their fault. It's
the fault of the company that's out of Fort Wayne, Indiana, that
refuses to stop and do the job and open up the driveway, if I'm
March 23, 2023
Page 23
correct, to put this pipe in. It's about a 14-inch diameter pipe.
And they need to stop renting that house for this man to get this
job done and -- but they don't want that money to come out of their
pocket, sir. So I think that's what it's all about. And thank you, and
I don't mean to take a lot of your time.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Mr. Chairman, a couple things. I do
have a picture of the current status if they don't have any objection to
putting it up and, No. 2, I do have a tendency to see both sides here,
and the county would be more comfortable with a 30-day -- if you're
going to give any extension, a 30-day just to put some fire under the
feet of these people to get this taken care of.
MS. WILLIS: May I intervene?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you have any objection to the
picture?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Here's the picture I want to show.
MR. WHITE: Do you want to take a look at it and see if you --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, Sue.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. I'm going to put that up on the
board then. They have no objection.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Why don't you --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Do you want to enter it as -- okay, I'll
just put it up. Hold on.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Get a motion from the Board to
accept the photo?
MS. CURLEY: Motion to accept the photograph.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Motion to accept the photos as presented.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I second it.
All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
March 23, 2023
Page 24
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. CATHEY: Just to clarify, this was back in May of 2022,
so it's not -- it's changed since then, I believe.
MR. LETOURNEAU: All right. I was told that it was more
recent.
MR. CATHEY: No, this was, I believe, my original photo
when I originally went out to the site, and...
MS. CURLEY: What's happening here?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: How old's this picture?
MR. CATHEY: May of 2022. It was a crushed culvert.
MS. CURLEY: So what's the concrete on this side?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I believe that's probably the neighbor's.
MR. CATHEY: It's the neighbor's --
MR. VELASQUEZ: This is my driveway.
MR. WHITE: Sir, you need to be on the microphone, please.
Thank you.
MR. VELASQUEZ: I'm sorry. I apologize. Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: There's a microphone you can
walk around with.
MR. VELASQUEZ: I got better pictures on my phone than
this; I apologize. But this is a long time ago. The ditch right
here -- I could walk over there and point -- it's open and exposed at
this time; am I correct, sir?
MR. LOEWEN: Correct.
MR. VELASQUEZ: This right here is all open. All of this is
open. This young man dug this ditch out. This is part of my
property. On the other side of this car is --
MR. MILLER: Right here. This will point to anything you
want.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Thank you, sir. Beautiful technology.
Sorry. I don't know how to work it anyway. So on the other side of
March 23, 2023
Page 25
Ryan's vehicle, there's a two -- what are they, 14-inch, 16-inch
diameter?
MR. LOEWEN: Two 18-inch.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Thank you, sir. What are they, 12
footers?
MR. LOEWEN: I believe they're 20s.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Are they 20s? Yeah, see. So he's got to
dig across this driveway right here, and this is totally -- if I'm correct,
is this totally closed?
MR. LOEWEN: Not totally. I didn't get to really look inside
of it. I did dig around the outside of it just to see the depth and the
condition of the culvert at the time, and it did look to be quite intact.
And only the end of it did have some damage to it. As far as being
able to drain through, I'm unaware of what that condition is.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Does this -- let me just keep this as
simple as can be. The ditch is -- do you have a permit to do this?
MR. LOEWEN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What would stop you from putting
a pipe in there?
MS. WILLIS: At this point in time, the permit has been -- we
have a stop work order on the permit. We do have to put a general
contractor on the job.
MS. CURLEY: Wait. What?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You have a stop work on the
permit because of what?
MS. WILLIS: That was given to us on Friday.
MR. LOEWEN: We were issued the permit.
MS. WILLIS: We were issued the permit, we have the permit,
but our license, apparently, there's some complication. And I don't
know if Mike is here that can -- I guess he left.
I think that the two of them can help explain what happened
March 23, 2023
Page 26
with that, but we've got a problem with Collier County permitting.
MR. FUENTES: I think we need to consider taking Jeff
Letourneau's recommendation and just moving forward. I think that
this is a pretty clearcut case. We're just -- we're spending a lot of
time on this but, realistically, we've already heard from the
investigator himself, the manager.
MS. CURLEY: So I have some input also. We could deny the
petitioner's request for extension of time and just let this go, and then
they have -- they are exceeding their time limit, and then the fines
start accruing.
MR. FUENTES: Make the motion.
MR. VELASQUEZ: Well, excuse me. No --
MR. FUENTES: Make it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I have a question for the --
MR. FUENTES: I'm losing my youth here. Make it.
MS. CURLEY: I mean, so I would like to make a motion to
deny the respondent Sunward LLC's request for an extension of time.
I feel like they've had enough time. I feel like we've had people
here. We see this. We understand this is probably going to be
violating their use of the home during all of this time. And so we
just feel like they've had enough time, and whatever delay is going to
cost them in the long run.
A second anyone?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll second.
MR. FUENTES: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we have a motion and a
second. Discussion on the motion? I'd like, at the end of the
motion, to say if this is not completed, then you cannot -- you can no
longer rent the property.
MR. WHITE: And I'd like to tell you, Mr. Chairman, that was
March 23, 2023
Page 27
within the discretion and authority of the Board, but I don't believe
that it is without going back and reissuing the order finding violation
and giving them more time to cure and imposing that as an additional
condition.
My understanding is that if the motion goes forward and is
approved today, this will be brought back for imposition of fines next
month by the county.
MS. CURLEY: I'm just reading the stipulation that was
presented to us. It says, if the respondent fails to abate the violation,
the county may abate the violation using any method to bring the
violation into compliance and may assist with the Collier County's
Sheriff's Office to enforce the provision of this agreement, and costs
of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Well, you made a motion
for 30 days.
MS. CURLEY: No, I made a motion --
MR. WHITE: No, deny.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, to deny it, okay.
MS. CURLEY: -- to deny the respondent's request for
extension of time. They've had enough time, and it sounds like
they've had a year and a half worth of time, and I don't like anything
that I'm hearing here. And it's been seconded.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's your question?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I know we have a motion and second, but
I have a question for you. You're the contractor, right?
MR. LOEWEN: Yes.
MS. WILLIS: Correct.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Realistically, can you get this done in the
next 30 days?
MR. LOEWEN: Absolutely.
March 23, 2023
Page 28
MR. RUBENSTEIN: You have everything you need to
complete the job?
MR. LOEWEN: I did. I special ordered the catch basin, I
have the culverts already there, and we're ready to begin work.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: And you have staff to go ahead and get
this completed?
MR. LOEWEN: Yes, we do.
MS. CURLEY: So, Lee, I have something follow-up. He
might have all of the supplies. The woman just said that the permit
that they have has been disapproved. They have a stop work order.
They can't move forward. So he might have everything he needs to
go to work, but he's not allowed to go to work.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand.
MS. WILLIS: We're just doing a change of contractor on the
permit due to the licensing.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Why was the stop permit issued?
MS. WILLIS: We have an aluminum and concrete license and,
apparently, the concrete license isn't strong enough to do this
particular job, so we have to bring in a general contractor.
MS. CURLEY: They're not qualified to do the repair.
MS. WILLIS: We're doing the work but, you know, we've got
to change the contract.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me go back to your question.
Do you have a general contractor set up to do this?
MR. LOEWEN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And when can they do it?
MS. WILLIS: We've got the paperwork in to Collier County.
We're waiting on Collier County.
MR. LOEWEN: It's in motion.
MS. WILLIS: It was put in yesterday, and it should be, I would
assume, done today or tomorrow.
March 23, 2023
Page 29
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, let's vote on the motion that's
on the floor to deny the respondent an extension of time. All those
in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
So your request for extension of time is denied, which
means -- which means that someplace at the end of our agenda is the
imposition of fines.
MR. WHITE: I don't believe so.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is this case part of that, Helen?
MR. WHITE: I don't believe Sunward is on the agenda, as I
said earlier, Mr. Chairman. My understanding is that the county will
likely bring it back next month for imposition. And if it's abated by
then, then you can weigh whatever factors, as we discussed earlier.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: Just a point of clarification. Their stipulation
agreement expires the 25th. Wait --
MR. CATHEY: 21st.
MR. FUENTES: Today's the 22nd -- 23rd, sorry.
MR. WHITE: Fines would begin to accrue today.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So the case is done.
MS. CURLEY: Thank you for coming.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. CATHEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen, that brings us to
extension of time No. 2.
March 23, 2023
Page 30
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
CESD20190009564, Syed M. Madni.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Chairman, before we begin, I'd just a like to
caution the Board members that, you know, as I have said in the past,
conversations off the record between board members should not be
occurring during hearings. Of course, outside of hearings either.
And I'll just appreciate --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Understood.
MR. WHITE: -- us monitoring that going forward.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MARINOS: I do.
MS. MADNI: I do.
MS. AUCLAIR: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you young ladies give us
your name on the microphone, please.
MS. MADNI: Robin Madni.
MS. AUCLAIR: Claudine Auclair from AUC Consultant.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. This is a barn structure
with interior alterations, converting it into living place.
MS. AUCLAIR: Correct. I'd like to give a little summary to
the Board, if I may be granted the time to explain the situation, what's
going on with this case. There's been -- I don't know if he should
start first or --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, go ahead.
MS. AUCLAIR: Okay. AUC Consultant. My company was
hired by the Madnis following problems with the previous consultant
they had hired to assist them with permitting and which failed to take
care of the code case and permitting and all that. So I was hired
March 23, 2023
Page 31
back -- it's a while -- in 2021 to take care of this case and assist with
them.
The previous consultant was given a large sum of money as a
deposit to take care of this case, which never took place.
And following me coming on board, we met with a designer, the
Madnis started putting together plans, design drawings to submit
permitting to make the renovations that were previously done without
permits compliant with code.
Basically, it was -- what was -- what happened with this
case -- and I'm not sure if it was previously explained -- this original
barn permit was in 2009. In 2019, the Madnis started renovating the
barn without a permit to make a portion of it into living space.
When the code case was opened, it was discovered that this was done
without permit. Not only was it done without permit, it did not meet
the minimum requirement of the Land Development Code as far as
square footage spaces. So in order to make this all legal, they
actually had to go a little bit bigger to be able to meet minimum
square footage requirements of the Land Development Code.
The first permit -- the permit was reopened in 2020 by the
previous contractor, we have information. An extension of paid in
November of 2020. I came on board in March of 2021. We
submitted revisions. Revisions were rejected twice. Then we got a
permit issued at the end of 2021. Inspections were performed by the
county. Several of the inspections were passed. Some were failed
because there were some items that did not meet the Florida Building
Code.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're not hearing the case now.
So tell us in summary fashion.
MS. AUCLAIR: Okay, cool.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: There was a barn -- they wanted to
make it -- convert it to residential space?
March 23, 2023
Page 32
MS. AUCLAIR: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They didn't apply for the permit
initially, so you went through one contractor, another contractor, and
here we are today. This thing was opened up in 2019.
MS. AUCLAIR: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you're asking for more time
now to do what?
MS. AUCLAIR: To finish the permit. We have a permit, an
active permit. We started inspection. Inspections are progressing.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: When was the permit issued?
MS. AUCLAIR: December.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: In December.
MS. AUCLAIR: Yes, 2022. And we have inspection -- we
have an inspection scheduled for tomorrow, actually. We have
another inspection scheduled for Monday, and we've already passed
inspections.
They had a second contractor that was hired back in the fall just
before the storm that was given 40,000 -- sorry -- $50,000, started
doing work on the property and did not complete the work and took
off with the money without completing the job.
MR. FUENTES: Mr. Chairman, if I may.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. FUENTES: As far as I know, she -- I'm familiar with it.
I think Herminio was the prior individual that had taken advantage of
her.
MS. MADNI: Correct.
MR. FUENTES: So, unfortunately, she is in a predicament
where she tried to do her best. They removed -- she's just been taken
advantage of.
MS. MADNI: Twice.
MR. FUENTES: Twice. And I'm familiar with it, as you
March 23, 2023
Page 33
know, because at one point I -- so I think that they're being as honest
as possible here, and she's in a -- she's in a very tight predicament.
MS. AUCLAIR: We're asking for another six-month period.
We discussed with the contractor that is now a legal contractor, has
all licenses active and the subs as well.
We're asking for another six months to complete this project,
which will be completed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's hear from the county first.
MR. WHITE: Well, point of order, Mr. Chairman, if I may.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Fuentes, based on your last remarks, are you
in a place where you would have any pecuniary gain or loss?
MR. FUENTES: No.
MR. WHITE: Thank you. I just wanted to make clear there
was no conflict of interest --
MR. FUENTES: But I have knowledge of, obviously --
MR. WHITE: It's secondhand. It's not your personal
involvement?
MR. FUENTES: It's not my personal file, no.
MR. WHITE: That's it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you, Mr. Fuentes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. From the county's
perspective, what do you have to say about this case?
MR. MARINOS: During a reinspection yesterday, it looks like
we're moving along in the right direction pretty well. I know there
was two previous incidents where they seem to have been taken
advantage of kind of beyond her control at this point, and it seems
like she's doing her best to get it there and doing it as quickly as
possible.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What -- what does the "out" date
look like? Six months is a long time. You can build a whole house
March 23, 2023
Page 34
in six months.
MR. MARINOS: We're practically building a whole house in
six months. It's got a lot of work to be done. We're just -- it's a
modification of a barn; pretty heavy modification. Obviously,
turning a horse barn into a living space is quite a change. A/C has to
be moved, electrical, walls installed, false walls installed, flooring,
but we're far from where we started.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They're adding square footage to
the barn to come into compliance?
MR. MARINOS: Yes, sir, to meet the minimum housing
requirements.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. AUCLAIR: If I may add another item also, and if you
heard the gentleman before with the window situation, there is
problems getting materials. Windows and doors are a major issue.
I have another client, which is not a Code Enforcement case
related but for which I'm doing permitting, and their sliders are six
months delayed in delivery. So there's some materials issues as well
during this entire process.
She is still short one window that has not arrived. The other
windows are there. But it's not just a question of the contractors and
finding contractors, because they're all trying to get on other jobs
related to the hurricane, but also material delays.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a motion, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a motion for a 90-day
extension and then come back and give us an update where we're at.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. FUENTES: Can we comment on the motion?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'll second the motion.
MR. WHITE: Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
March 23, 2023
Page 35
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: Is the form of the motion one that the fines
would continue to accrue?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's a continuance.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any discussion on the
motion?
MR. FUENTES: I think that 90 days will not allow them to do
what they need to do.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: But they can come back, and we can see
exactly where they're at. They might only need 30 days after 90.
But I agree with the Chairman; I think six months is a long way.
MR. FUENTES: I don't disagree, the only problem is, guys, six
months is a lot to build something. Six months for some individuals
to lose $50,000 is almost their whole entire annual income, and we're
not looking at that factor here. This individual forked up cash to
come into compliance; this gentleman took the money and bailed.
This is a lot of money. This is money that some people make in a
year.
MS. AUCLAIR: That happened twice.
MS. MADNI: Twice, sir.
MR. FUENTES: Let me finish, please. I'm sorry. That
hinders an individual's ability to bring it up to code, and then we've
got the storm, lack of material. Some of these points are pretty
valid. And, like I said, at least I'm able to sit here with some of the
knowledge. But he made the motion. I guess we'll go forward with
it. Just -- I think 90's rough.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll, vote on it. The 90 days will
give the respondent time to come back and say we got this done, we
got that done, we can see the end of the tunnel, and we need a little
March 23, 2023
Page 36
bit more time. If it's not done in 90 days, go forward. So I have -- I
can support the motion no problem; me.
Okay. Yes, Sue.
MS. CURLEY: Go ahead and take the vote.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
Opposed?
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. The motion fails; 2-2 is a
failure.
MS. CURLEY: My only thought was there's forward motion
going. Let's let it go. What's it matter? It's been since 2019.
What's another six months? Why bring her back here and make her
pay $58, make her bring her consultant back. This is a whole 'nother
financial obligation. And let's just -- let's just see if maybe this time
it works. Give them the six months. I mean, she made a --
MR. FUENTES: You know I would normally -- I'm very
adamant about -- but oh, man.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: No, I hear you.
MR. FUENTES: We need to show a little mercy sometimes.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: All right. I'd like to rephrase my
motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You're going to make a
new motion?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Yeah. A new motion to grant them the
180-day continuance -- the extension and fines will continue.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You grant a continuance
for 180 days.
MS. CURLEY: Second.
March 23, 2023
Page 37
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. Jeff, you look perplexed.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I was just going to say, once this is
passed, if it passes, that we need to -- you need to vote on removing
the imposition after this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. We have to modify the
agenda. Okay. All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay. Now, to keep Patrick happy, we need to take a motion
from the Board to modify the agenda to remove this from the
imposition for the next six months and to grant -- to change the
agenda for this case.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Patrick, you're okay with that?
MR. WHITE: Absolutely, sir, and it's just simply following
your own rules.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We try to do that
March 23, 2023
Page 38
occasionally, too.
MS. AUCLAIR: Okay, thank you.
MS. MADNI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good luck.
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 3, CESD20210003238,
Mariela Emblidge Living Trust.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. MARINOS: I do.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Could you state your name
on the microphone for us.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Mariela Emblidge.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you're authorized to
speak for the trust?
MS. EMBLIDGE: Yes. It's my trust, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. This looks like removal
and clearing of vegetation without a permit; is that correct?
MR. MARINOS: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to give us a
little brief description of what's going on?
MR. MARINOS: Sure thing, absolutely. So this case came to
me secondhand. It started back in April of 2021. The property, as I
understand it, had some vegetation removal problems. They went a
little bit too far and took too much stuff out. They tried originally
one or two different methods of abatement but eventually settled on
getting a permit for a shed that will basically allow for that level of
vegetation removal. Currently, we're in the process of getting that
shed permit finaled and approved, but it is open currently and moving
forward.
March 23, 2023
Page 39
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So where are we today?
MR. MARINOS: Today?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: In other words, you can remove an
acre, basically, of vegetation with a building permit, so that's what
they did. They got a building permit for a shed. It got
approved -- the shed's approved?
MR. MARINOS: The shed is currently in -- inspection's
commenced, I believe.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So that gave them the
authorization to clear the one acre. Did they clear more than the one
acre?
MR. MARINOS: So they originally -- they had cleared more
than one acre. The one acre was covered by the original primary
structure. The shed is allowing them for the additional portion that
he cleared over an acre. That is -- that that's an approved method of
abatement. We're just waiting on the final for the permit in order to
close the case out at that point.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The permit for the shed?
MR. MARINOS: For the shed, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And that would be the
final?
MR. MARINOS: We are waiting on the final. We're getting
inspections commenced at this point.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Once you get the final, what
happens?
MR. MARINOS: At that point in time we --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You don't have a code case?
MR. MARINOS: Yeah, we're done. The violation's abated at
that point.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And how close are we to
getting the final?
March 23, 2023
Page 40
MR. MARINOS: Let's see.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think that's a question for the
respondent, to be honest.
MR. MARINOS: Yeah. It looks like we're pretty close.
We've just got a few of the remaining inspections. But in terms of
how close they are to actually getting those called in, that's
more -- I'm sure she can speak to that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Yes. So when I requested -- I was talking
to Rick, the other inspector. I requested the extension about
two-and-a-half weeks, three weeks maybe, because a permit wasn't
approved. It took longer than expected because it had to be -- the
shed was faster. It was the environmental permit part that took
longer.
And in December -- I mean, I understand everybody takes
PTO -- it was like ghosts, right? And I couldn't get with nobody.
So that delayed a little bit. But the permit, it got approved, but I
asked for the extension before. And I thought, okay, great. I can
get it done fast because the shed is paid -- excuse me, everything's
paid, but it wasn't as easy to get concrete people to come to my home
to give me estimates.
And to be honest with you, I only had three. I own an
insurance agency. Normally I would get five estimates, but I just got
three, and I went with the cheapest one, you know, and I hired him.
And I showed him pictures this morning, because when I asked
for the extension, the permit wasn't approved. And I still have time,
I think, till the end of the month.
So I may be okay till my time, but the concrete guy just told me
that he might get the concrete, you know, by the end of next week. I
March 23, 2023
Page 41
was like, oh, you know, because impact [sic] guy, he was at my
house this morning. So the impact guy, the surveyor.
The shed is ready. They said as soon as they put the concrete,
in 10 days it would be there; two days to install it.
So I'm thinking the impact the guy, the concrete -- gets the
concrete -- the concrete guy -- when I say "concrete," I mean the
concrete company, gets their material. They say maybe Wednesday
or Thursday, but he can't guarantee me. I said, you need to hurry.
But he's doing his best. And I think if he gets the concrete in
next week, I call the shed company. I already paid it. And within
10 days -- I have to wait 10 days, I'm assuming to dry. I don't
know -- they'll be there.
So, honestly, I may only need two, three weeks, but I asked for
the extension because the permit was not approved. But now, thank
God it's approved.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So you think a month would be
more than enough time?
MS. EMBLIDGE: I honestly think so. I like his advice that I
should ask for 60, because what if my concrete guy said, oh, maybe
45? You know, I don't want be to pushy. It's just, what if the
concrete guy said, oh, I don't have it next week? And now another
week. The shed company said they need 10 days. So it's up to you,
Your Honor.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Mr. Chairman, for the record, Jeff
Letourneau, Collier County Code Enforcement.
It's obvious that she has taken steps to get this thing taken care
of, and the county has no objection to a 60-day extension if you guys
see fit for it.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Maybe you could just pull it until
the next meeting, and it probably won't even --
March 23, 2023
Page 42
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, I mean. She asked for the
extension. I'm not sure -- when is the date of compliance?
MS. EMBLIDGE: I think it's the end of the month.
MR. MARINOS: Yeah, it's right at the end of the month.
She's coming here early to try to head off any problems at the --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, I mean, we didn't bring it. She
brought it for an extension. So I'd be more comfortable with an
extension at this point, I think.
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to grant the extension of 60
days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You can't do a continuance
because they're not in violation right now.
MR. WHITE: Correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah. They haven't met their
compliance date yet, so this is an extension at this point.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: Then let me clarify that. Extension from
when her time expires. Doesn't it expire in a couple days?
MR. WHITE: I don't have the exact date. The testimony was
it was near the end of the month, so it would be 60 days from then,
unless you specify it's 60 days from today's hearing, which you can
certainly do as well.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. WHITE: And for clarity's sake, it is 60 days from today's
hearing?
MS. CURLEY: No. It's 60 days from whenever it expires.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
March 23, 2023
Page 43
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: On the order, the expiration date is
March 21st.
MS. CURLEY: Well, then it's 60 days from today. Let me
correct that. I'll make a motion to grant 60 days from today.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: A continuance.
MS. CURLEY: Continuance.
MR. WHITE: The understanding of the Board, then, is that the
fines began to accrue on the 22nd, which was yesterday --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: -- and will continue to accrue until the work is
completed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Correct.
MR. WHITE: That's your understanding as well.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MS. EMBLIDGE: I'm sorry. You said -- what you say?
Sorry.
MR. WHITE: I'll repeat it.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Thank you.
MR. WHITE: The prior continuance or extension of time was
until March 21st. You did not get the work done by March 21st, so
beginning yesterday the fines would have started to accrue. The
form of the motion is to give you another 60 days to complete the
work.
MS. EMBLIDGE: Yes.
MR. WHITE: But during that period of time, the fines will
continue to accrue. When the county comes back for, ideally, a
motion to impose the fine, you should be prepared to argue all of the
factors that apply to you as to why you believe that fine should be
reduced or mitigated to zero. So I would suggest you talk to your
March 23, 2023
Page 44
investigator and have a detailed conversation about what it is you're
going to be able to say 60-days-plus from today.
MS. EMBLIDGE: I have a question. I understand clearly
now --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have --
MS. EMBLIDGE: -- but I do have a question, please.
MR. WHITE: Would you like the Board to vote?
MS. EMBLIDGE: But I have a question for you.
MR. WHITE: It's up to the Chairman to --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's your question?
MS. EMBLIDGE: Okay. I talked to Rick, and I own a
business. All my calls are recorded. I asked him. He told me, you
have till the end of the month. If not -- I asked almost three weeks
ago, why would we meet after? Because I told him I wanted to meet
before my extension. He said, you have till the end. Okay, perfect.
So as long as it's before the end -- so I know Rick is not here. He
just took over. But I would never do that. I mean, I'm a business
owner. I do everything before. I'm a proactive person. So I
understand what you're saying, and if I have to pay it, I pay it. I just
don't think that's fair because Rick is not here so I can --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, you can argue that when it
comes --
MS. EMBLIDGE: I know. I just really take -- that's fine.
That's fine. Taking my time from my business. That's fine.
MS. CURLEY: Excuse me. I just want to do a point of
clarification to your question --
MS. EMBLIDGE: Yes.
MS. CURLEY: -- while we still have the motion on the table,
is that you may have had conversation with county employees -- and
you've mentioned Rick a lot, and he's not here -- but I will tell you
that you have the documentation yourself with the correct dates on it.
March 23, 2023
Page 45
The stuff was mailed to you, because we have copies of it right here.
So shall we take a vote on the motion?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're going to take a vote on the
motion. All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: (No verbal response.)
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
So I'm sure that the amount of fines, if you get this done really
quickly, probably won't amount to a whole bunch, and at that time
you can come back before the Board during the imposition of fines
and ask for the fines to be abated, modified, or whatever, so...
MS. EMBLIDGE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So it's -- since this is going on
since 2021, it's coming to the end, which is good for everybody.
Okay. Thank you.
MR. MARINOS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Terri, are you ready for a break, or
you want to --
THE COURT REPORTER: 10:30 is good.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let's do one more, and
then we'll take a break for the court reporter.
MS. BUCHILLON: Okay. We're going to old business, B,
motion for imposition of fines, No. 1, CELU20200002226, John D.
Harlem and Megan K. Harlem.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
March 23, 2023
Page 46
MR. COLLIER: I do.
MR. HARLEM: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sir, could you put your name on
the microphone. You can lift that up.
MR. HARLEM: John Harlem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, John.
This was a case of synthetic turf installed on the property
exceeding the allowable 30 percent in the rear of the yard. I
remember this going back and forth with -- the county had a rule, the
state has a rule or whatever. That's my recollection of this case.
MR. HARLEM: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So you're before us?
MR. HARLEM: Oh, yes. I'm asking for the fines to be
waived. I did replace the turf with sod. That's been taken care of.
I did -- like you had mentioned, I worked with the county back and
forth with the state ruling, the county ruling. The City of Naples
being able to do it, the City of Marco being able to do it, and the
county not being able to do it. Some county members were on board
with 100 percent turf in your yard due to drought and pesticides;
some weren't.
I worked hand in hand with James French, Jeff Grill (phonetic),
a multitude of people. I have them all listed here. But it is now
replaced with sod, and it's still an ongoing thing to whether, you
know, turf will be allowed eventually because of drought and
pesticides and runoff.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to read the
imposition into the record for us to begin with?
MR. COLLIER: I do. For the record, Adam Collier, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On March 25th, 2021, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
March 23, 2023
Page 47
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinance and
ordered to correct the violation. See attached order of the Board,
OR5933, Page 2488, for more information.
On June 23rd, 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted a
continuance. See the attached order of the Board in Documents and
Images for more information.
The violation has been abated as of February 14th, 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $50 per day for a period from March 26th, 2022, to
February 14th, 2023, 326 days, for a total fine amount of 16,300.
Previously assessed operational costs of 59.28 and 59.28 have
been paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing: 59.49.
Total amount is 16,359.49.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So this was mostly the
time that this was enforced, the fines clicking forward were based
upon appeals to the county, the state, et cetera?
MR. HARLEM: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you have anything that you'd
like to add to this, Jeff?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Not at this time, no.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to deny the county's
imposition of 16,359.49, which includes today's operational costs.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. That's your motion. Do
we have a second?
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a second. All those in
favor?
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: (No verbal response.)
March 23, 2023
Page 48
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Nay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It passes 3-1.
MR. HARLEM: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: My question, Jeff, is, is the rule
now the 30 percent in force going forward? I don't know what the
resolution is.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, it's -- oh, no. It's the same as it's
been when this case started. It's 30 percent of the rear yard only at
this time per the county.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BUCHILLON: Break or keep going?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's take a break now so I can
stand up. We'll pick this up at 10:30.
(A recess was had from 10:21 a.m. to 10:39 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'd like to call the Code
Enforcement back to order. Next case?
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, under motion for imposition of
fines, No. 3, CESD20210002916, Carlisle Wilson Plaza, LLC.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MS. PEREZ: Yes, I do.
MR. CARLISLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You want to read through
the --
MS. PEREZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- case before we go to the
respondent?
MS. PEREZ: Yes, sir. Good morning. For the record,
March 23, 2023
Page 49
Cristina Perez, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CESD20210002916.
Past orders: On March 24th, 2022, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a findings of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board
in Documents and Images for more information.
On May 26th, 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted a
motion to amend its prior order of March 24th, 2022. See the
attached order of the Board, OR6141, Page 1016, for more
information.
The violation has been abated as of February 13, 2023.
Fines have accrued at the rate of $600 per day for the period
from August 24th, 2022, to February 13, 2023, 174 days, for a total
fine amount of one hundred and four thousand -- one hundred and
four, four hundred thousand [sic] dollars.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 have been paid,
operational costs for today's hearing is $59.35, for a total fine amount
of $104,459.35.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to state your
name again on the microphone? I know you were here before.
MR. CARLISLE: Yes. It's Greg Carlisle with Wilson Plaza;
Carlisle's Plaza.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you are authorized to
talk on this?
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, sir. I thought -- I thought the tenants
were coming today, but then they -- it was my fault that I didn't sign
the affidavit to let them speak for themselves on my behalf. So I
need to -- I was told I needed to speak; that they couldn't speak
without me letting them speak. He couldn't make it anyway, so I'm
here.
March 23, 2023
Page 50
MS. PEREZ: Mr. Carlisle is the registered manager for the
property --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. PEREZ: -- for the LLC.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you're authorized to talk for
the LLC?
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, sir. I'm the LLC, or the plaza.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Just a quick -- nothing's
quick. A summary of this case -- as I recall, you had one tenant who
didn't have the right refrigeration and a bunch of stuff in their
business?
MR. CARLISLE: As I made Cristina aware, it's my
understanding -- because I'm not 100 percent sure of what happened,
but based on what that tenant says, that they inherited that problem,
that the -- and as I told Cristina, that it's up to the tenant to do their
due diligence to make certain that there aren't any code violations
before they take over the unit. But, apparently, the previous tenant
did some things that they shouldn't have done. Nonetheless, there
are some things in there that I saw that that tenant had, I think,
performed that they needed to correct, it did take them -- once they
did find out about it, though, they did hire an architect, they did work
with the -- I mean, they took it serious and tried to resolve this issue.
It just took them longer than they thought it would because of,
obviously, going through the due process, if that --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I mean, it's -- you say it's almost
unfair. You are managing the plaza?
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And they're -- you have one tenant
in the plaza that's caused this huge fine to accumulate?
MR. CARLISLE: Against the -- yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I don't know that -- whether you
March 23, 2023
Page 51
have -- and it shouldn't affect us one way or the other -- have any way
of recourse against them.
MR. CARLISLE: Civilly, but, you know how that -- that
doesn't always end well. And you've got attorney's fees that get very
expensive.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CURLEY: So just something that you just testified about.
You said that when the new people took over, there was language in
the lease that Carlisle Wilson Plaza gave them which stated they were
responsible for any prior code violations; is that what you said?
MR. CARLISLE: That's my understanding of the lease, yes,
ma'am.
MS. CURLEY: And so you feel like it's their fault for not
making sure the building was right?
MR. CARLISLE: It would fall onto the tenant. I don't know
who did the violations. That's what they're saying. I really don't
know if it was existing or if they took it over. They purchased
that -- they purchased it from another tenant that was a problem
tenant, and since they've gone in, I mean, we had trash problems that
were -- with the previous grocery store. I mean, they've really
cleaned up their act a lot or cleaned up the act of that -- as far as a
retailer, they're doing a much better job than the previous retailer was
as far as not being a nuisance.
MS. CURLEY: Right. Well, no tenant should be a nuisance.
But we've -- as you see -- like, the responsibility of the property is
this corporation that you're representing.
MR. CARLISLE: Right.
MS. CURLEY: So we -- I personally don't care about the
tenants.
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, ma'am.
March 23, 2023
Page 52
MS. CURLEY: I care about the time and the efficiency of all
of our county staff and all of the pictures, which I remember, and the
cases and the hearings and the very nonchalant way that it was
corrected, and a very long time.
MR. CARLISLE: Ms. Curley, I wasn't familiar -- when I found
out about this, I happened to be -- if you recall, I had a container
issue, and I was just in here. I didn't even know about it.
MS. CURLEY: When did you start working for this company?
MR. CARLISLE: I purchased the plaza about 10 years ago.
MS. CURLEY: Oh, so this is your corporation, Carlisle Wilson
Plaza?
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: As I recall from my memory,
which sometimes is accurate and other times not, I believe the
respondent was not present at that hearing, and that's why the fine of
$600 per day was levied.
MS. CURLEY: Well, that maybe is true.
MS. PEREZ: In looking at the original order, no one was
present at the time for the original order, and then there was -- a
motion for rehearing was submitted by the tenant's attorney, and the
Board heard that and then amended the original order in the May
hearing.
MS. CURLEY: So it's still confusing that we would even have
the tenant here. We don't really care about the tenant. I mean, it's
the property owner. And these notices and everything is going to
Carlisle Wilson Plaza, which we know now is this gentleman right
here, but he claims he doesn't know anything about it, but he's owned
it for 10 years. But somehow the tenants got copies of these things.
MS. PEREZ: Yeah. The communication throughout the
course of the case was with both, like in this case, for example, the
first communication case notes in the case that was discussed with
March 23, 2023
Page 53
Mr. Carlisle was June 17, 2021, where the investigator at the time
made contact with them to see if they would -- if he would sign the
notice of violation. So since June 17, 2021, Mr. Carlisle was
notified of this case.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah, and I feel -- I don't feel like it's the
tenant's fault. You didn't bring a copy of the lease to show us that
they accept the responsibility for any prior Code Enforcement
violations that may have taken place in the property before they took
it over. So you haven't supplied us with any of that documentation
to show that it's their fault. So it's your fault as the property owner.
MR. CARLISLE: Okay. It's my fault, then.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the
respondent.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: When your hearing started just a few
minutes ago, the Chairman asked you if you have the right from the
LLC to represent the corporation, and you said yes.
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, I do.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: And you are the corporation?
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, sir.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Why didn't you say that that --
MR. CARLISLE: I didn't understand the question. I
misspoke. If you'll repeat it, I'll try to answer. I didn't understand
the question. What was the question?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I mean, he asked you if you had the right
of the owners to represent the corporation today.
MR. CARLISLE: I am the owners.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: And you said yes. Why didn't you just
say "I am the owner"?
MR. WHITE: I believe his admission would be saying that he
is the owner, and in prior hearings we've had that testimony from
March 23, 2023
Page 54
Mr. Carlisle.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, okay.
MR. WHITE: The LLC's a limited liability company, and I
believe he's the managing member.
MR. CARLISLE: Thank you.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question for the county.
MS. PEREZ: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CURLEY: So this was abated as of February 13th. Is
there -- has anybody been there lately?
MS. PEREZ: The investigator made contact with both -- the
respondent, as of this morning, though. He had not been able to get
ahold of them. But I can't say that, you know, he physically was at
the store.
MS. CURLEY: I'm just curious to where all these items went if
they're not there now.
MS. PEREZ: Well, the items were all permitted. There was a
permit issued, and the -- for the majority of all of these items.
MS. CURLEY: Fair enough. Okay.
MR. CARLISLE: And they went through the due process.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So we're in a position now where
there's a huge fine. What do we do?
MR. FUENTES: Lee?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Excuse me?
MR. FUENTES: Lee's going to make the call here.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a motion,
Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: -- that the fines of 104,459.35 be
imposed as of this date.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion. Do
March 23, 2023
Page 55
we have a second?
MS. CURLEY: I'm not going to second that. Do you want to
amend it?
MR. WHITE: Well, technically, if there's no second, there's
nothing to amend.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: There's no motion.
MR. WHITE: He could make another motion if he chooses to.
MS. CURLEY: All right. Well, I'll make a motion --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: -- that we deny the county's -- a portion of the
county's fees and fines, leaving $4,459.35 to the respondent,
Mr. Carlisle, and abating $100,000 of the fines.
MR. WHITE: And would there be a time frame within which
that amount of $4,459.35 would have to be paid?
MS. CURLEY: I would -- any --
MR. WHITE: Typically the Board's given 30 days to get it
paid; otherwise, the whole fine and costs are --
MS. CURLEY: Maybe 60 days would be okay.
MR. CARLISLE: Thirty's fine, ma'am.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
MR. CARLISLE: That's generous.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So we have a motion.
MS. CURLEY: A motion to --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Fine $4,459.35.
MS. CURLEY: Which, excuse me, will have -- in part will
be -- $59.35 for today's hearing costs will be included in that total
amount.
MR. WHITE: Correct.
MS. CURLEY: Less -- so abating $100,000 of the fines.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And do we have a second?
MR. WHITE: One hundred and -- yes, 100,000. My
March 23, 2023
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apologies. And is it 30 or 60?
MS. CURLEY: Thirty is fine.
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
MR. CARLISLE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do we have a second on the
motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Motion fails.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to take another swing at this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay, Lee.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I remember this case, and the more I read
about it and the more I see the gentleman, I remember there was a no
show, but then there was an issue with gas tanks out in front that was
a fire issue that came up.
Jeff, do you remember?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think that might be confusing with the
other piece of property that Carlisle had been here on, the one behind
the --
MS. PEREZ: The gym.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Not the gym.
MR. CARLISLE: I think Mr. Rubenstein's right. I think there
were some propane tanks.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Oh, were there? Oh, okay.
MR. CARLISLE: I'm not familiar with this. I have to take
the --
MS. PEREZ: Yeah, there were two propane --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. WHITE: One at a time, please. The Chairman will direct
who speaks when, if you don't mind.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Why don't you go first.
MR. CARLISLE: I apologize, sir.
March 23, 2023
Page 57
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's okay. Go ahead. Do you
have anything further?
MR. CARLISLE: I did have a gas fire on the property. I think
that's what he was referring to. It was very -- it was serious.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Right.
MR. CARLISLE: But I took care of -- I think I took of -- yeah,
I took care of that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CARLISLE: But I think what Mr. Rubenstein is referring
to, looking at the complaint, there were some propane tanks, water
tanks, and an ice machine, and so -- I guess that's what you're
referring to.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: The fire was before you got written up or
after?
MR. CARLISLE: The fire was on the containers I had with the
bears. Excuse me.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. I have a motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Hold on. Let me just -- let me just
finish. We're talking about the shopping center. We're not talking
about the trailers you had stored that you had to move.
MR. CARLISLE: Containers.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: That was a separate complaint, correct?
MR. CARLISLE: Correct.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay. Has that one been abated?
MR. CARLISLE: I took care of the issue, and I paid a fine.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay, all right. So we're just talking
about the shopping center?
MR. CARLISLE: Correct.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Okay. All right.
MS. CURLEY: Okay.
March 23, 2023
Page 58
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hold on.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'd like to make a new revised motion --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you want to make a motion?
Okay.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: -- that we reduce the fine from its current
posted 104,459.35 to 75,000 --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: -- including the $59.35s and --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any comments from the
Board? Any second?
(No response.)
MS. CURLEY: Okay. I got one.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. That --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: So the motion fails.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
Ms. Curley.
MS. CURLEY: I will make a motion for a $7,459.35 fine,
abating the balance of it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me see if I have that right.
MS. CURLEY: Payable in 30 days.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: How much?
MS. CURLEY: $7,459.35.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second.
Discussion on the motion?
MS. CURLEY: I just didn't want to lose site of the decimal
points. It's a lot of money. But I firmly feel that Mr. Carlisle will
baby-sit his tenants.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: It's not our place to determine if it's a lot
of money or not a lot of money. It's the violation, and that's what
March 23, 2023
Page 59
we're dealing with. And I remember the $600 per day was very high
last year when we did this, and it was a reason. And I had to rock
my memory a little bit. One, nobody showed up, and it was the gas
tanks out in front of the store that was an issue that you didn't have a
good answer back then.
MR. CARLISLE: I wasn't here, sir.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I know, but we had a fire concern that
Jeff got involved with, and we talked about with the fire department.
There was something with the propane tanks that could have led to a
huge disaster. And I don't know how long it took for that to get
abated. So did it sit there for months and months and not get
resolved? I don't know.
MS. CURLEY: Well, we know nine months later it's fixed, so
that should be your answer.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Yes and no. You own the property.
MR. CARLISLE: Correct.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: So when was the gas tank issue resolved?
You don't know.
MR. CARLISLE: I don't know. I just found out about it
today.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: So we should -- okay. Do you know?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me say one thing. I recall, as I
said before, the fine -- it is unusual for the Board to impose a
$600-a-day fine. It was imposed. It was imposed because nobody
showed up, and this was the Board's way --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: We had a safety concern.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And this was the Board's way -- it
was safety -- of getting somebody's attention on this. That's why it
was that number. Do I think -- this is me personally. Do I think
104,000 is a very big number? Yes, it is. Do I think -- I think the
original motion was 4,000, was a dramatic difference. So someplace
March 23, 2023
Page 60
in between. We now have a motion of $7,400 which is in between at
the low end, if you will, so...
MR. FUENTES: Mr. Chairman, I would -- I actually made that
motion. So let's just do this one.
MR. WHITE: There is a pending motion which you seconded.
MR. FUENTES: I know. I know. So let's do this one, and
then I would like a chance to make a motion afterward.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: We can discuss the motion.
MR. WHITE: Absolutely, but --
MR. FUENTES: I'm not making a motion. I'm saying --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. WHITE: -- make another motion, and I'm just simply
saying you have one on the floor.
MR. FUENTES: What I'm saying is let's rule on this one, and
then I will probably do mine.
MS. CURLEY: So my motion is still on the floor.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
MS. CURLEY: And no one has called the vote.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Your motion is 7,459.35?
MS. CURLEY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So now -- who's talking?
MR. CARLISLE: I did. I didn't mean to interrupt you,
though.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, okay.
MR. CARLISLE: Can I speak with Michelle [sic] for a
March 23, 2023
Page 61
moment, or is that not allowed?
MR. WHITE: With whom?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Cristina?
MR. CARLISLE: Cristina. Excuse me. Excuse me.
MR. WHITE: You're asking the Chair if you can go off the
record and have a conversation with staff?
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, sir.
MR. WHITE: That's up to the Chair.
MS. CURLEY: Let's just move on.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's okay; you can speak to her.
MR. WHITE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No problem.
MR. WHITE: My belief is it's the wisdom of Solomon here.
You're looking to find a middle number, and if that allows them to
have a conversation that can achieve that so staff could recommend
it, I think it's time well spent.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. WHITE: Otherwise the Board members shouldn't be
discussing it off the record.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: We're off the record right now?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, we're still on.
MR. WHITE: I mean, if during the --
MS. CURLEY: Am I able to speak?
MR. WHITE: Absolutely. We're on the record. I was just
going to simply suggest it might be worthwhile to review what the
criteria are.
MS. CURLEY: So I did have a thought waved by while I was
sitting here.
MR. WHITE: It's up to the Chair.
MS. CURLEY: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
March 23, 2023
Page 62
MS. CURLEY: So I'm just a little taken aback by the property
owner's comment that he expected the tenant and the tenant's lawyer
to be here. I can assure you if the tenant and the tenant's lawyer
came here, we would have imposed the entire fine.
MR. CARLISLE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CURLEY: I just can't understand how arm's-length away
from the property, that you earn an income from and that you own,
you are and you're portraying, and it's just bothersome to me. And I
think that's why the whole Board has a different opinion about it,
because it's unusual that we have two years of a lot of people's work
and a potential fire hazard and everything else that could have
occurred even though it's all in check now. Like, it's not your fault.
It's your fault. It's your responsibility.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CARLISLE: I understand that now.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I was going to recognize
John. I think you said you wanted to make a motion.
MR. FUENTES: Yes. I originally made the first motion for
the $600, so I'm going to try to meet somewhere in the middle here
for everybody. I'm going to say that --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: John, can you hold for one moment. I'd
like to hear from the county regarding their conversation, if it has any
bearing on us going forward with the fines?
MS. PEREZ: No, sir. There was --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Are you at liberty to share with us?
MS. PEREZ: Yeah, I would assume so. There was just
discussion about having served properly the original notice of
hearing, which there's a -- I guess the address itself as far as, like, if it
conflicted with -- did we send it to the right location or did we not.
And I explained to Mr. Carlisle that we send it to the address of
record. If the address of record is incorrect, you know, he needs to
March 23, 2023
Page 63
make that change to the county. We can only go by what we have.
So at that time we sent it to the address on Pine Ridge; that is still the
address of record till today.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So that -- it's not affecting
the motion --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- that John is going to make.
Thank you, Lee.
MS. CURLEY: No, it's not --
MR. CARLISLE: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hold on. The floor is John's. Do
you want to make a motion?
MR. FUENTES: I'm going to try to please everybody here. I
think that the operational costs for today as well as we impose a fine
of 18,500 within 60 days. The operational --
MS. CURLEY: Second.
MR. FUENTES: The operational costs would be paid within
60 days of $59.35 and the fine of 18,500.
MS. CURLEY: Second.
MR. WHITE: So the total amount would be 18,500.
MR. FUENTES: $18,559.35 to be paid within 60 days.
MR. WHITE: Understood.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And we have a second.
MS. CURLEY: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any more discussion on this?
MR. WHITE: Do you want to hear from Mr. Carlisle?
MS. CURLEY: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, we're --
MR. WHITE: That's fine.
MR. CARLISLE: Could I speak, though? Not that it's going
to have any bearing on this. I just would like to speak, though.
March 23, 2023
Page 64
MR. FUENTES: We've got to finish this ruling first.
MR. CARLISLE: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's finish this, and then -- okay.
All those in favor?
Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Nay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It passes 3-1. That's
$18,559.35.
MR. WHITE: Sixty days --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sixty days.
MR. WHITE: -- from today's hearing?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. CARLISLE: I understand your position but, first off, if I
had known about it, I would have been here. I'm not disrespectful.
I wouldn't have stuck my head in the sand. I mean, I really didn't
know. That's all I can say. I really didn't. And I've got another
case going. I didn't know I -- I'm getting a thousand dollars a day,
and this is -- it's not a safety issue. And I've been trying to resolve
this for six months, and I'm still trying. I know it's a separate issue.
I have to come back before you. But if I know about something I'm
here. I'm not -- I take this stuff serious.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And I'm sure you can understand
the position that we were in. There was a problem. Nobody
showed up, and this is -- I mean --
MR. CARLISLE: I would have been here if I knew. I'm just
saying.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Eighteen thousand five
hundred is a long throw from 104,000.
March 23, 2023
Page 65
MR. WHITE: And, for the record, the summary -- executive
summary you've been provided, at the bottom, the last line, small
parentheses d is any other relevant factors. It says, the contractor
was in constant communication regarding progress. So that is of
record and known.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. CARLISLE: For the record, it wasn't my contractor,
though. I was being sued by those people at the time. I was in
litigation with them.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand. And you have been,
as far as I know, very pleasant the whole time.
MR. CARLISLE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen?
MS. BUCHILLON: Next case, No. 4, CESD20200002525,
James M. Altenburg.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: This is under imposition?
MS. BUCHILLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MS. AUCLAIR: I do.
MR. HOLMES: I do.
MR. ALTENBURG: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Would you both -- I know
that you identified yourself before -- both of you identify yourself.
MR. ALTENBURG: James M. Altenburg.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. AUCLAIR: Claudine Auclair, AUC Consulting.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. This was an unpermitted
finished private swimming pool with a spa with an unpermitted
March 23, 2023
Page 66
screen enclosure. Okay. And this goes back to 2021, the first order
that I see. Okay. Do you want to read this into the record for us
and any other comments you might have?
MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir.
Past orders: On October -- oh, for the record, Bradley Holmes,
Collier County Code Enforcement.
Past orders: On October 29th, 2021, the Code Enforcement
Board issued a findings of fact, conclusions of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
OR6045, Page 1334, for more information.
On March 24th, 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted an
extension of time. See the attached order of the Board in Documents
and Images for more information.
On January 26th, 2023, the Code Enforcement Board granted a
continuance. See the attached order of the Board in Documents and
Images for more information.
The violation has not been abated as of March 23rd, 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $200 per day for the period from September 25th, 2022, to
March 23rd, 2023, 180 days, for a total fine amount of $36,000 and
zero cents.
Fines continue to accrue.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.28 have been paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing: $59.70.
Total amount: $36,059.70.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. When I look at these
sheets from years of doing this, the number-one thing that I look at is
the -- in the middle of the page where it says the violation has not
been abated as of March 23rd. Is that still the case?
MR. HOLMES: Yes.
March 23, 2023
Page 67
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Okay, sir.
MS. AUCLAIRE: Good morning. At the meeting of
January 26th, 2023, following the conclusion of the meeting,
Mr. Altenburg was given an additional 30 days to take care of
resolving the issue.
There is a permit that was submitted for the screen enclosure
with the Collier County Building Department; however, that permit
was rejected because the drawings that were provided to the county
are not sufficient for the county staff to be able to approve the
structure as it was built.
The recommendation -- the comment on the building permit
submitted by Mr. Altenburg requires an engineer to sign and seal
plans for the county to accept those plans and approve them.
After the meeting, Mr. Altenburg reached out to us for
assistance, and since then we have been in contact with Mr. Kosinski,
an engineer in Fort Myers. And we have a letter from Mr. Kosinski.
Due to Hurricane Ian, Mr. Kosinski is extremely busy, small firm.
And we've been trying to get him to go to the site.
The information we gave him, the pictures and the plans, are not
sufficient. He has to go do site visits. And he's requested us to give
him another three weeks so he can go on site, inspect the way it was
constructed, review the plans that were provided with the permit, and
then make a determination if additional reinforcement or
changes/modifications need to be made in order for him to sign off on
a structural drawing and submit that to the county to approve the
permit.
So we're actually -- we just started working with Mr. Altenburg.
We've been in contact with Mr. Kosinski since then, beginning of
February. Mr. Kosinski is asking for another three weeks. There
are other engineers, but all of them are busy.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let me stop you for a
March 23, 2023
Page 68
second. Who put the pool enclosure in? You did. Now, the
difference here is you can go for an affidavit to submit from an
architect and all the rest of that; however, if you did it, you can't do
that.
MR. ALTENBURG: Do what?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You can't -- you can't go to an
engineer, have him sign off and submit that and get approval.
Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, I believe you're referencing the
permit by affidavit. I think they're not going that way. They're
trying to -- they've got a permit submitted. They need a professional
engineer to submit the drawing for that particular permit, and then
they can get it issued and inspected and CO'ed, yes.
MS. AUCLAIRE: That's correct. We are not going for permit
by affidavit. Regular building permit, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That was my only question.
Okay.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Shoot.
MS. CURLEY: You asked him who put the screen enclosure
in, and he said he did. Did you also put the pool in?
MR. ALTENBURG: No.
MR. WHITE: You need to be on the mic, sir.
MR. ALTENBURG: I had to finish -- I'm sorry. I didn't put
the pool in, but I had to finish the pool. I had to put the deck in. I
had to finish the jacuzzi. The guy took off, so...
MS. CURLEY: I don't understand.
MS. AUCLAIRE: If I can clarify.
MR. ALTENBURG: All the landscaping.
MS. AUCLAIRE: The code case stipulates unpermitted
finished private pool and spa and a non-permitted screen enclosure.
March 23, 2023
Page 69
The building permit for the swimming pool, all inspections have been
completed. They cannot issue a certificate of completion on the
building permit for the swimming pool until the screen enclosure
passes all inspection. But all inspections on the swimming pool,
that's done. So right now the only remaining issue is the screen
enclosure.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And, typically, the screen
enclosure provides the safety, if you will, the same thing as a fence
would provide.
MS. AUCLAIRE: That's correct. It is installed except it's not
CO'ed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Which means it's not there.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Shouldn't this have been under motion
for extension?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well --
MS. CURLEY: Yes.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aren't we --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, there's only two things we
can do. We can impose the fine and still -- and it continues, or we
could grant some continuance on this to give you more time to get all
the ducks in a row, and then at that time you would come back and
say it's now in the "has been abated" stature and then go from there.
So having said that...
MS. CURLEY: So I still have a question that has remained
unanswered. I wanted to know -- when I asked the gentleman if he
installed the pool, I didn't want to know if he physically did it
himself. When he lived there, did he hire somebody, or did he create
the pool himself? And I think you said somebody -- you hired
somebody to do it, but they didn't do it so you finished it?
MR. ALTENBURG: I physically finished it.
MR. WHITE: On the microphone, sir.
March 23, 2023
Page 70
MR. ALTENBURG: I physically --
MS. CURLEY: Okay. But you hired a contractor to do that
pool. Did they pull -- there's what -- I'm getting somewhere. Did
they pull a permit originally?
MR. ALTENBURG: Yes.
MS. CURLEY: Yes?
MR. HOLMES: Yes.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. That is what I wanted to know. It
means more that you did it the right way from the beginning. What
happened during the process, which is two-and-a-half years, changes
when we know you tried to do it right the first time. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So the -- and the permit
that they pulled was CO'ed; do I understand that correctly?
MS. CURLEY: Yep. So I make --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hold on. Hold on. The answer.
MS. AUCLAIRE: As I mentioned before, the permit for the
swimming pool and spa. All inspections have passed. There's no
remaining inspection. It's been approved by all inspectors that need
to do the job. There is not a certificate of completion --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Ahh.
MS. AUCLAIRE: -- because they can't do that until the screen
enclosure is finished.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now I understand.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. So I will make a motion to continue
this case for 40 days so you can -- you said that you had -- you
needed three weeks to get the screen engineer?
MS. AUCLAIRE: The engineer requested us to give him three
weeks before he can come do a site visit. That doesn't include his
time to turn around and do his report. Then we have to submit that
to the county for final review.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Probably 60 days would be the
March 23, 2023
Page 71
right --
MS. CURLEY: I'll make a motion to continue this for 60 days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
MS. CURLEY: And as long as I am on this board, I won't
agree to any more continuations for this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a -- let us vote on
this. We have a motion --
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- to provide a continuance for 60
days, and we have a second.
All those in favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Sir, you have a question? Or advice of counsel there --
MR. ALTENBURG: I'll tell you, when all this first started, all
the engineers that I talked to asked for two to three years to -- you
know, they said -- they all laughed at me.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're not engineers, so we're not
going to give you two or three years.
Okay.
MR. ALTENBURG: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Good luck.
MR. FUENTES: Get it done.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Helen, what's up?
MS. BUCHILLON: Our last case, under imposition of fines,
March 23, 2023
Page 72
No. 5, CESD20200002094, Jose Valdes and Olga L. Benitez.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm you will
translate everything from English into Spanish and Spanish into
English to the best of your ability?
MS. EMBLIDGE: Yes, I will translate.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. AMBACH: I do.
MS. BENITEZ: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So as a quick -- as a quick
guess, are you the interpreter for this case?
MS. EMBLIDGE: After my case she -- I'm sorry. After my
case she realized I speak English, because I was talking to her in
Spanish. She asked me as a favor, and I said, sure, why not.
MS. BENITEZ: My English not very well.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So, Terri, you swore her in
as an interpreter?
THE COURT REPORTER: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I just want to get that straight.
Okay. Chris?
MR. AMBACH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you want to read this case into
the record for us?
MR. AMBACH: I do, sir.
For the record, Chris Ambach, Collier County Code
Enforcement.
Past orders: On July 22nd, 2021, the Code Enforcement Board
issued a finding of fact, conclusion of law and order. The
respondent was found in violation of the referenced ordinances and
ordered to correct the violation. See the attached order of the Board,
March 23, 2023
Page 73
OR5996, Page 2975, for more information.
On August 25th, 2022, the Code Enforcement Board granted a
continuance. See the attached order of the Board in Documents and
Images for more information.
The violation has been abated as of February 22nd, 2023.
Fines and costs to date are as follows: Fines have accrued at a
rate of $200 per day for the period from January 19th, 2022, to
February 22nd, 2023, 400 days, for a total fine amount of $80,000.
Previously assessed operational costs of $59.35 have been paid.
Operational costs for today's hearing: $59.56.
Total amount: $80,059.56.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now, the reason the fine is
so big is because it's taken so long to get this resolved.
THE INTERPRETER: Because when we started the
process -- I'm going to translate -- we started the process, the COVID
was starting, and everything was delaying. It took -- that wetland
determination, it took about a year to get. Everything, all the process
takes three, four weeks. It continued.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So this is a piece of property that
was wetlands?
MS. BENITEZ: No. Not yet, no.
THE INTERPRETER: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It wasn't wetlands?
THE INTERPRETER: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So why did they need a wetlands
determination?
THE INTERPRETER: The county asked for it to continue the
process.
MR. WHITE: Typically, it's done to confirm that it is not
wetlands.
MR. FUENTES: Correct.
March 23, 2023
Page 74
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: But it was never wetland.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm reading from the violation that
this was multiple unpermitted structures on the property. So the first
thing that had to be done was to determine whether it was wetlands or
not; is that correct?
MR. AMBACH: That's part of the process, yes. Two sheds,
two large carports.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. FUENTES: I'd like to make a motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. FUENTES: I'd like to make a motion that the respondent
pays the operational costs of 59.56 within 60 days as well as we
impose the fine -- a reduced fine of $5,000. Total cost: $5,059.56.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I'll second.
MR. WHITE: Has the Board had any testimony on whether
there would be a financial hardship --
MR. RUBENSTEIN: That's not his place.
MR. WHITE: -- to the respondent if the fines were imposed?
THE INTERPRETER: I ask her. She said 5,000 she can pay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let me -- all those in favor
of the motion?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
Sue, you --
MS. CURLEY: I voted aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I didn't hear you.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Good.
March 23, 2023
Page 75
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. BENITEZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're done. Thank you.
MR. AMBACH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I have a sheet that's being
forwarded to Jeff Klatzkow on foreclosure collection authorization.
There are one, two, three, four, five cases on there.
MS. CURLEY: Yeah. I'll make a motion to forward the
foreclosure collection authorization form dated March 23rd, 2023, to
the --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: County Attorney.
MS. CURLEY: -- County Attorney Office.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. FUENTES: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I've got a second. All those in
favor?
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. FUENTES: Aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
We are all done, Helen?
MS. BUCHILLON: We're all done.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Jeff, do you have any final closing
statements?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I do not, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Are you sure?
MS. CURLEY: Motion to adjourn.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We are adjourned.
March 23, 2023
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11 :23 a.m.
( -CODE . NFORCEMENT BOARD
IMAISAfri1BER j' A UFMAN, CHAIRMAN
These minutes approved by the Board on A-A, I a7)
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY PUBLIC.
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