BCC Minutes 03/14/2023 March 14, 2023
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, March 14, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders (via zoom)
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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February 28, 2023
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
March 14, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; – Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; – Vice Chair
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; – CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; – CRAB Co-Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED
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February 28, 2023
BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A CONSENT
ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL OF THE
DAY’S CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE BEGINNING OF
THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC
PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM
TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
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February 28, 2023
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation by Scottlyn Hall, Daisy Hall, Sunee Hall, Shepherd Hall, and
Miles Hall - Grandchildren of Commissioner Hall.
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (ex
parte disclosure provided by commission members for consent agenda.)
B. February 14, 2023, BCC Meeting Minutes
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation recognizing the 25th Anniversary for the Pace Center for Girls,
Collier at Immokalee. To be accepted by Marianne Kearns, Executive
Director, and other distinguished guests.
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February 28, 2023
B. Proclamation designating March 2023 as American Red Cross Month in
Collier County. To be accepted by Jill Palmer, Executive Director, South
Florida Region, and Dennis Sanders, Community Volunteer Leader.
C. Proclamation designating March 18, 2023, as Save the Florida Panther Day
in Collier County. To be accepted by Meredith Budd, Vice President of the
Friends of the Florida Panther Refuge.
D. Proclamation designating March 14, 2023, as Gentle'men Against Domestic
Violence Day in Collier County. To be accepted by Collier County Sheriff
Kevin Rambosk.
E. Proclamation designating March 20-24, 2023, as Government Finance
Professionals Week in Collier County, joining in the statewide recognition
of government finance professionals. To be accepted by Derek Johnssen,
Michael Netti, Christopher Day, and Kelly Jones of the Collier County
Clerk's office.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Artist Of the Month
B. Presentation of the Collier County Business of the Month for March 2023 to
Day Adjusting & Consulting. The award will be accepted by Blake Day,
owner. Also attending is Michael Dalby, CEO of the Greater Naples
Chamber of Commerce.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
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February 28, 2023
A. Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Memorandum of Agreement and Escrow Agreement from the Florida
Department of Veterans’ Affairs (FDVA) for the County to appropriate $30
million for the “State Veterans’ Nursing Home” project using Infrastructure
Sales Surtax Funding. (All Districts)
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. This Item to be heard at 10:00 AM. Recommendation to accept an update
on the concrete crushing activities on the property located at the southeast
corner of Santa Barbara Blvd and Davis Blvd (Taormina Reserve MPUD).
(Jaime Cook, Director, Development Review Division) (All Districts)
B. Recommendation to award Request for Proposal (“RFP”) 22-7979,
“Tourism International Representation - UK and Ireland Market” to
OMMAC Ltd, authorize the Chairman to execute the Agreement for a term
of three (3) years with two (2) one (1) year renewals options, and make a
finding that this action promotes tourism. (Paul Beirnes, Tourism Division)
(All Districts)
C. Recommendation to award Request for Proposal (“RFP”) 22-7980,
“Tourism International Representation - Germany Market” to DiaMonde
e.K., authorize the Chairman to execute the Agreement, and make a finding
that this action promotes tourism. (Paul Beirnes, Tourism Division) (All
Districts)
D. Recommendation to authorize FY 2023 budget amendments in the total
amount of $29,859,500 to reallocate funding provided for debris removal
and transfer additional reserves to support continued post Hurricane Ian
recovery in FEMA Hurricane Fund (727), return funding to the Solid Waste
Driveway Program Project (59001), and provide additional funding for
unbudgeted storm related force account overtime; and to authorize future
budget amendments for the reallocation of existing funding between cost
centers within FEMA Hurricane Fund (727), Hurricane Ian Project (50280)
to expedite recovery. (Christopher Johnson, Interim Director - Corporate
Financial and Management Services) (All Districts)
E. Recommendation to Adopt the FY 2024 Budget Policy and adopt a
Resolution establishing a deadline of May 1, 2023, for budget submittals by
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February 28, 2023
the Supervisor of Elections, the Sheriff’s Office, and the Clerk. (Ed Finn,
Deputy County Manager) (All Districts)
F. This Item continued from the September 13, 2022 BCC Meeting.
Recommendation to award Request for Proposal (“RFP”) No. 21-7919-ST,
“Construction Manager at Risk (“CMAR”) for Collier County Mental Health
Facility,” to DeAngelis Diamond Construction LLC, for pre-construction
services in the amount of $207,965.00, and a fee of four-point seven five
percent (4.75%) of the future to be determined Guaranteed Maximum Price
(“GMP”) proposal for construction services. (Ed Finn, Deputy County
Manager) (All Districts)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners (BCC),
acting in its capacity as the Community Redevelopment Agency
(CRA), approve the central boardwalk alignment, reject the Southern
Boardwalk Alignment, and direct staff to engage professional design
services to design and permit two parking areas to support the
boardwalk connection from Bayshore Drive to Sugden Regional Park
within the Bayshore Gateway Triangle Community Redevelopment
Area. (Debrah Forester) (District 4)
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
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February 28, 2023
B. RED TIDE UPDATE
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
approve for recording the amended final plat of Esplanade by the
Islands - Phase 2 Replat , (Application Number PL20220006144)
approval of the standard form Construction and Maintenance
Agreement and approval of the performance security in the amount of
$2,517,064.70. (District 1)
2) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and accept the
conveyance of the potable water and sewer utility facilities for
Manatee Cove Phase 2, PL20210001317 and authorize the County
Manager, or designee, to release the Final Obligation Bond in the total
amount of $4,000 to the Project Engineer or the Developer’s
designated agent. (District 1)
3) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements for the final plat of
Maple Ridge Phase 6A, Application Number PL20170002650, and
authorize the release of the maintenance securities in the amount of
$597,454.58. (District 5)
4) Recommendation to approve a Termination of Agreement
Authorizing Affordable Housing Density Bonus and Imposing
Covenants and Restrictions on Real Property for Summer Lakes
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February 28, 2023
Apartments II that has satisfied the terms of its affordability period.
(District 2)
5) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a
Performance Bond in the amount of $28,080 which was posted as a
guaranty for Excavation Permit Number PL20210002323 for work
associated with Soluna. (District 3)
6) Recommendation to seek approval for electronic submission by staff
of a Small County Outreach Program for Rural Areas of Opportunities
application with the Florida Department of Transportation to fund the
construction of a paved shoulder project to improve safety on a
segment of Immokalee Road (CR 846E) - in the amount of
$985,274.47. (District 5)
7) Recommendation to hear a Land Development Code amendment at
two regularly scheduled daytime hearings and waive the nighttime
hearing requirement. (District 1, District 3, District 5)
8) Recommendation to approve the selection committee’s ranking and
authorize staff to begin contract negotiations with CSA Ocean
Sciences, Inc., related to Request for Professional Services (“RPS”)
No. 22-8015, “Professional Services for Nearshore Hardbottom
Monitoring,” direct staff to bring a proposed agreement back for the
Board’s consideration at a future meeting, and make a finding that this
item promotes tourism. (All Districts)
9) Recommendation to approve an expenditure of $26,220 in Tourist
Development Tax funds to Rick Croft Enterprises, Inc. dba Texas
Trailers under Contract Number FSA20-EQU18.0 - Heavy Equipment
(PiggyBack Contract 251) for the purchase of two (2) medium duty
mobile cargo trailers for the storage of equipment and supplies used
for beach maintenance activities, authorize the necessary budget
amendment, and make a finding that this expenditure promotes
tourism. (All Districts)
10) Recommendation to approve a Work Order for CSA Ocean Sciences,
Inc. to continue the required post-construction hardbottom monitoring
for the Collier County Beach Nourishment Project in summer 2023
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February 28, 2023
for time and materials not to exceed $378,594.35 Tourist
Development Tax funds under Contract No. 17-7188, authorize the
Chairman to execute the Work Order, and make a finding that this
item promotes tourism. (All Districts)
11) Recommendation to approve the termination of Grant Contract No.
F19AC00805 between Collier County and the U.S. Department of the
Interior and the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and
approve the required Budget Amendment to reduce grant funds in the
amount of $190,003.41 in the Growth Management Grant Fund (711).
(All Districts)
12) Recommendation to terminate Subrecipient Agreement Nos. IR031
and IR002 in the amounts of $602,786.32 and $591,374.00,
respectively, with the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity
(FDEO), Community Development Block Grant-Mitigation (CDBG-
MIT) program and the Community Development Block Grant-
Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) program totaling $1,194,160.32 for
the construction of the Immokalee Eden Gardens Stormwater
Improvements, and the construction of the Immokalee North 3rd
Street Drainage Improvements; Authorize the Chair to sign the
termination letters to the Grantor, and approve necessary budget
amendments to reduce grant funds totaling $1,194,160.32 in the
Growth Management Grant Fund (711). (District 5)
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve proposal #10581, under Agreement No.
19- 7592 Building Automation Energy Management Services, from
Juice Technologies, Inc. d/b/a Plug Smart, and authorize the issuance
of a purchase order in the amount of $430,237.17 to replace the
proprietary N2 Johnson Controls BMS with new BACnet Reliable
Controls at the Collier County Courthouse Annex. (All Districts).
2) Recommendation to approve a change order in the amount of
$16,302.96 and to add one hundred twenty (120) days to Agreement
No. 20-7764, “North County Water Reclamation Facility (“NCWRF”)
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February 28, 2023
Aeration Basins 5 & 6 Diffuser System Replacement,” with U.S.
Water Services Corporation, and authorize the Chairman to sign the
attached change order. (District 2)
3) Recommendation to approve a Fourth Amendment to Agreement No.
18-7429 for Security Services with Universal Protection Service, LLC
to adjust the fee schedule to better align with market rates for the final
renewal term of one year under the Agreement and authorize the
Chairman to sign the Amendment. (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to authorize after-the-fact payment of $170,916.00
to LJ Power, Inc., for emergency generator rental fees including
shipping and fair markups that were in excess of the agreed upon
Contract #18- 7324 rates in response to Hurricane Ian, which was
necessary to prevent a health safety emergency and potential for raw
sewage spills, to ratify staff’s decision to procure the needed
generators outside of the four corners of the agreement, and to waive
any irregularity with the agreement. (All Districts)
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve “After-the-Fact” and authorize the
Chairman to sign the Memorandum of Understandings with the Boys
& Girls Club of Collier County, Florida, Inc. for the delivery of the
21st Century Learning Centers swimming skills and drowning
prevention “Miracle 1 and Miracle 2” programs in Immokalee. (All
Districts)
2) Recommendation to approve the First Amendment for Sale and
Purchase Agreement with Jim Howard Moody also known as Jim H.
Moody and Linda Sue LeCount, as Trustee of the amended and
restated trust of W. L. Crawford Revocable Trust U/A April 26, 1991,
for 59.79 acres under the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition
Program. (District 5)
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize a Budget Amendment to
recognize carry forward interest earned, in the amount of $751.99, for
the period of July 2022 thru September 2022 on advanced library
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February 28, 2023
funding received from the Florida Department of State to support
library services for the use of Collier County residents. (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to approve payment without further penalty to
Housing Development Corporation of SW Florida, Inc., d/b/a HELP,
under a Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Subrecipient
Agreement where the Performance Report (Exhibit C) did not
properly reflect intended outcome goals. (All Districts)
5) Recommendation to accept and recognize a grant donation from the
HsiYang Wu Memorial Fund through the Branch County
Community Foundation in the amount of $500 for the benefit of the
Collier County Public Library and authorize the necessary Budget
Amendments. (All Districts)
6) Recommendation to approve an “After-the-Fact” Second Amendment
and attestation statement with the Area Agency on Aging for
Southwest Florida, Inc. for Community Care for the Elderly grant
program to decrease the contract amount by $50,000 and revise the
Annual Budget Summary (Attachment VIII). (All Districts)
7) Recommendation to authorize Budget Amendments totaling
$725,185; transferring reserves within the Local Provider
Participation Fund (169) to remittances to other governments, for the
purpose of remitting payment to the Agency for Health Care
Administration as part of the Direct Payment Program
Intergovernmental Transfers of State Fiscal Year (SFY) 2022-2023,
pursuant to Senate Bill 2500, the General Appropriations Act of SFY
2022-2023. (All Districts)
8) Recommendation for the Board of County Commissioners to ratify
Subrecipient Agreements and all amendments signed by the County
Manager under the Local Fiscal Recovery Fund Grant to distribute
reimbursement for expenses to eligible parties; approve the extension
of time-limited personnel to carry out the remaining funded projects.
(All Districts)
9) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Landlord Payment Agreement allowing Community and Human
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February 28, 2023
Services (CHS) to administer the Rapid Re-Housing and
Homelessness Prevention Program through the Emergency Solutions
and Rapid Unsheltered Survivor Housing Grants Program and
authorize the necessary budget amendment in the amount of
$124,693.25 to support the required match funds. (All Districts)
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve the administrative report prepared by the
Procurement Services Division for After-the-Fact procurements
requiring Board approval to ratify/approve other items as determined
by the County Manager or designee in accordance with Procurement
Ordinance 2017-08 and Procurement Manual, as well as, to approve
payment of $3,433.06 in expenditures that have been incurred that
were out of compliance with the contracts or procurement
requirements and the associated invoices that have not been paid. (All
Districts)
2) Recommendation that the Board approve extending, pursuant to
Procurement Ordinance, Section 19, Contract Administration,
subsection 4, Contract Extension, Agreement No. 17-7133 with
Digitech Computer LLC for an additional one-year period to allow
staff to competitively re-solicit these services, and authorize the
Chairman to sign the attached Extension Agreement. (All Districts)
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the FY22-23 Adopted Budget. (The budget amendments in the
attached Resolution have been reviewed and approved by the Board of
County Commissioners via separate Executive Summaries.) (All
Districts)
2) Recommendation to approve a report covering budget amendments
impacting reserves up to and including $25,000, and moving funds in
an amount up to and including $50,000. (All Districts)
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
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February 28, 2023
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) Recommendation to approve the use of $5,000 from the Confiscated
Trust Funds to support the Naples Ethics and Public Corruption
Conference. (All Districts)
2) Recommendation that the Board establish an auditor selection
committee as required under Florida Statute § 218.391. (All Districts)
3) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between February 16, 2023 and March 1, 2023 pursuant to
Florida Statute 136.06. (All Districts)
4) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of March 8,
2023. (All Districts)
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to appoint a member to the Golden Gate City
Economic Development Zone Advisory Board. (District 3)
2) Recommendation to appoint a member to the Golden Gate Estates
Land Trust Committee. (District 3, District 5)
3) Recommendation to reappoint two members to the Immokalee Local
Redevelopment Advisory Board. (District 5)
4) Recommendation to approve a Stipulated Final Judgment in the total
amount of $100,000 plus $25,892.55 in statutory attorney fees,
litigation costs, apportionment attorneys’ fees, and experts’ fees and
costs for the taking of Parcel 191FEE required for the Vanderbilt
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February 28, 2023
Beach Road Extension Project No. 60168, and delegate authority to
the County Manager or her designee to process payment of additional
statutory attorney’s fees for supplemental proceedings not to exceed
$3,000, if any, as authorized by Ch. 73, Fla. Stat. (All Districts)
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17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: A recommendation for approval from staff;
Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County Planning
Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present and voting;
No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the Collier County
Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the Board, prior to the
commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items are scheduled to be
heard; and No individuals are registered to speak in opposition to the item.
For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all participants must be
sworn in.
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A. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendment (appropriating
carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the FY22-23 Adopted
Budget. (The budget amendments in the attached Resolution have been
reviewed and approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.) (All Districts)
18. ADJOURN
Inquiries concerning changes to the Board’s Agenda should be made to the County
Manager’s Office at 252-8383.
March 14, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning, everybody. How's
everybody doing? Great?
Good morning, everybody. Hey. That's better. That's much
better from my Air Force friend right there in the front row.
Before we get started, one of the things I wanted to say, when I
became Chair, I talked to the County Manager, and I said, you know,
I want to make sure that the prayer and the Pledge doesn't just sort of
happen on autopilot; that we do something special; that we move the
water cooler that was next to the flag. That kind of bothered me for
two years. I don't know why it took so long to move that.
("Recording in progress" announced over the speaker.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, hi, Mom. How you doing?
Is that your mom recording?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. My mother -- we're
going to say an extra prayer for my mother today. She's in the
hospital.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. That's
why the prayer and the Pledge is so important, and it's important that
people know the Pledge. I don't know if you saw on social media
there was a newly elected official somewhere in the country that was
asked to lead the Pledge, and then he whispered to the County
Manager, I don't know it. So everybody here knows it, and
everybody up here knows it. So we're going to start off these
important proceedings with a very important invocation and a very
special Pledge of Allegiance.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. We're going to have the
invocation and the Pledge led by Scottlyn Hall, Daisy Hall, Sunee
Hall, Shepherd Hall, and Miles Hall, the grandchildren of
Commissioner Hall.
March 14, 2023
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Item #1A
INVOCATION GIVEN BY SCOTTLYN HALL, DAISY HALL,
SUNEE HALL, SHEPHERD HALL, AND MILES HALL -
GRANDCHILDREN OF COMMISSIONER HALL
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A bunch of Halls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Grandpa.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are we going to do the
Pledge first? Are we praying first?
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
DAISY HALL: Lord, I pray over Commissioner LoCastro, that
you give him peace in his mind and he does the right thing for
Florida, that he walks through Florida, and he helps -- and that you
walk him through the right steps to follow you in the right path. In
Jesus' name. Amen.
SCOTTLYN HALL: Lord, I pray over Commissioner
Saunders for having a great mind over thinking for Naples and
choosing the right decisions and being smart. In Jesus' name.
Amen.
SUNEE HALL: Lord, I pray over Commissioner McDaniel,
for his mom to be better, and he does the right thing. In Jesus' name.
Amen.
SHEPHERD HALL: Lord, I pray over Commissioner Kowal
and that he makes the right decisions and that he will lead this -- lead
part of Naples in a good way. In Jesus' name. Amen.
MILES HALL: I pray over Big Daddy, and he has a good wife,
and he makes good decisions, and he keeps us healthy. In Jesus'
name. Amen.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen to that. Can we
applaud?
March 14, 2023
Page 4
COMMISSIONER HALL: We can.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I feel better already.
Thank you so much. And, Commissioner Hall, thank you for
starting off our meeting with something super special, and, you
know, we will continue that trend. And it sounded like everybody
knew the Pledge, which was impressive.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I said it cost me a lot.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I bet.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm impressed. They got my
last name right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. And they said McDaniel as
opposed to how you say it. No, I'm just kidding. We tease because
we love.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, I believe we need a
motion to allow Commissioner Saunders to participate --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. PATTERSON: -- by phone.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make that motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll second.
Do we have him on the line?
MR. MILLER: He is on the line, sir. He's muted at this
moment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, you're in,
you're cleared, and you're approved.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
March 14, 2023
Page 5
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) MOTION TO APPROVED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - APPROVED AND/OR
ADOPTED W/CHANGES- 5/0
SEE REVERSE SIDE
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
March 14, 2023
Add-on Item 10B: Recommendation that the Board discuss changes to the current process in applying for and
receiving a reduction in code liens. (Commissioner LoCastro’s Request)
Notes:
Clarification for item 16A4: While the County’s affordability restrictions have run their course, the affordability
restriction with the State is not set to expire until 2037. Therefore, this development remains affordable for at least
another fifteen (15) years.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 11A to be heard at 10:00 AM: Update report on the rock crushing activities on the property located at the
southeast corner of Santa Barbara Blvd and Davis Blvd (Taormina Reserve MPUD)
3/14/2023 12:09 PM
March 14, 2023
Page 6
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. We want to move on to our
agenda and minutes, approval of today's regular, consent, and
summary agenda as amended; however, let me read the change sheet
before we go through your changes, if you have any further.
We have an add-on, Item 10B. This is a recommendation that
the Board discuss changes to the current process in applying for and
receiving a reduction in code liens. This is being added at
Commissioner LoCastro's request, and those were provided as a
one-way communication to all the Board members.
We have a couple of notes. For clarification for Item 16A4,
while the county's affordability restrictions have run their course, the
affordability restriction with the state is not set to expire until 2037;
therefore, this development remains affordable for at least another 15
years.
We have a time-certain item at 10:00 a.m. That's 11A. It's an
update report on the rock crushing activities on the property located
at the southeast corner of Santa Barbara Boulevard and Davis
Boulevard.
We have court reporter breaks set for 10:30 and 2:50.
County Attorney, any further changes?
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes, thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Any changes
or -- Commissioner Hall? Commissioner McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No ex parte or any additional
changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, anything?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No ex parte, no additional
changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Same for me; no ex parte,
no changes.
March 14, 2023
Page 7
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I do have a registered speaker online
for a consent agenda item. They did not indicate which item. I'd
like to call on her at this time if that's okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just hear from
Commissioner Saunders to see if he has any changes.
MR. MILLER: Oh, I'm sorry, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, I have no changes.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
MR. MILLER: I'm sorry. I jumped the gun, sir.
All right. Ashley Jones, you should be prompted to unmute
yourself, if you'll do so at this time. Ashley Jones? There you are.
Ashley, if you could please tell us which item you want to speak on,
and then you have three minutes.
MS. JONES: Okay. Good morning. I just wanted to talk
about affordable housing today.
MR. MILLER: Did you have a consent agenda item? You
registered for the consent agenda, ma'am.
MS. JONES: This is my first time to register, sir, so I probably
clicked on the wrong one. I'm very sorry.
MR. MILLER: Okay. We'll mute you and come back to you.
I'm sorry about that, sir. She registered for the wrong item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, we'll hear from her
during --
MR. MILLER: Okay. But now I have another registration for
consent agenda, Item 16K2, Rae Ann Burton.
Rae Ann, don't go away. 16K2.
MS. BURTON: Good morning. My name is Rae Ann Burton.
I live in District 5, 2530 31st Avenue Northeast, Rural Golden Gate
Estates, Naples.
I hope this Board can clear up some confusion on advisory
March 14, 2023
Page 8
committee of applicant routing memorandum dated August 29th,
2022, from Wanda Rodriguez, Office of the County Attorney, to staff
liaison, Michael Dowling, and care of Jennifer -- I'm sorry, I can't
pronounce her last name.
The memorandum dated August 29th, 2022, Ms. Rodriguez
stated, do not recommend an application 23 days before the actual
application dated and received on September 21st, 2022. How can
this be? This information is on Item 16, Consent Agenda K, County
Attorney, Item K2, Item 24775, GGELTC, backup 3.1423.
I'd like to know how my application can be going -- not to be
recommended on August the 29th when it wasn't even received until
September the 21st. Thank you.
I am a valid [sic] advocate of the area. I am very much
interested in this Board, because it concerns the Estates and the
Estates money. And if you want any copies of it, I made copies of
the actual showing that this memorandum went out on August the
29th, and my application was not received until the 21st.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Klatzkow?
MR. KLATZKOW: Ms. Burton was one of the three applicants
that's in your executive summary. It went to the community. The
committee recommended that Ms. Zwiefel be appointed.
Oftentimes we get applications, I'm not going to say late, but
let's just say after the, you know, time period that we normally would.
What we do is we don't dismiss them. We put them as part of the
backup to the agenda for the Board's consideration. Sometimes the
committee has seen it, and sometimes the committee has not.
Sometimes the applications come in after the committee has met.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Does any of the
commissioners have a comment on it? Is Commissioner Saunders lit
up? Does he have a comment on it?
March 14, 2023
Page 9
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have no comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. Well, I
understand that's how the process works, and it happens all the time.
So unless anybody's got any kind of comment -- County Manager,
did you have anything to add?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. Thank you.
MR. KLATZKOW: And, again, it's the Board's choice. You
can take the committee recommendation, or you can take any one of
the three applicants or ask that it come back.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think that we have taken the
committee's recommendation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I agree, so...
Okay. I don't have a motion, or I'm not hearing anything.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Don't need any.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. Move forward.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Could we get a motion on the
agenda?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make the motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. Thank you.
March 14, 2023
Page 10
Item #2B
FEBRUARY 14, 2023, BCC MEETING MINUTES - MOTION TO
APPROVED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL - APPROVED AS PRESENTED- 5/0
That moves us to Item 2B. That is the February 14th, 2023,
BCC minutes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion for
approval as printed.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And he's a pass. Is that a
delay?
MS. PATTERSON: Delay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE 25TH ANNIVERSARY
FOR THE PACE CENTER FOR GIRLS, COLLIER AT
IMMOKALEE. ACCEPTED BY MARIANNE KEARNS,
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AND OTHER DISTINGUISHED
March 14, 2023
Page 11
GUESTS. - MOTION TO APPROVED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
ADOPTED- 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Moving along to proclamations, Item 4A
is a proclamation recognizing the 25th anniversary for the Pace
Center for Girls, Collier at Immokalee. To be accepted by Marianne
Kearns, executive director, and other distinguished guests.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Would you like to say a few words
at the podium about your organization?
MS. KEARNS: Sure, absolutely.
First and foremost, thank you so much for honoring and
acknowledging Pace Center for Girls. Many of you have been
advocates of our program for several years. Twenty-five years is
quite an accomplishment.
I want to share that 25 years ago in Immokalee the center was
opened due to the ZIP code in Immokalee and the poverty levels that
are such in that area. Over time, we've served over 2,000 girls.
And I like to believe that one of the reasons that we're so successful
is because not only of being there for 25 years but also due to the fact
that we're preventing girls from entering the juvenile justice system.
Many people know that we are highly funded through the Department
of Juvenile Justice.
So being a line item in the Governor's budget has positioned us
in a way to not only save girls' lives but save our county and our
state's money by preventing girls entering the juvenile justice system
and also entering residential treatment facilities for mental health and
other disabilities.
So I'm proud to say that I've been out at Pace Immokalee for 13
March 14, 2023
Page 12
of the 25 years. It's been a joy to see girls' lives changing before our
eyes every day. We believe that we are growing girls into
productive, successful young women for our future.
They are our future. It starts -- it starts at Pace when they're
with us between the ages of 12 and 18. When they leave us, we
know that they're going to have a better life and better serve our
community.
So thank you so much.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 2023 AS
AMERICAN RED CROSS MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY.
ACCEPTED BY JILL PALMER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
SOUTH FLORIDA REGION, AND DENNIS SANDERS,
COMMUNITY VOLUNTEER LEADER - MOTION TO
APPROVED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED- 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating
March 2023 as American Red Cross Month in Collier County. To
be accepted by Jill Palmer, executive director, South Florida Region,
and Dennis Sanders, community volunteer leader.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Would you like to say a few words
after?
MS. PALMER: Yes, please.
Good morning. I'm Jill Palmer. I'm the executive director. I
have the pleasure of serving Lee, Collier, Hendry, Glades, and
Highlands Counties for the American Red Cross in the South Florida
March 14, 2023
Page 13
region.
Joining me today is Dennis Sanders. Dennis is my community
volunteer leader. He helps represent the organization and myself
across the community. So it's our pleasure to serve you and be with
you today.
The American Red Cross has really been an instrumental and
vital part of the community's response to Hurricane Ian over the last
five-plus months. And I wanted to share with you just a few key
stats of the impressive response. But it takes a village. It takes all
of our community partners, and we continue to work with those
partners every day as we move forward past the response phase now
into the recovery.
But just a few quick facts. We've served 1.7 million snacks and
meals to our community, serving over 155,000 individuals during our
response phase for Hurricane Ian. We provided over 60,000
overnight shelter stays across the community serving 36,500
households.
Hurricane Ian is one of the largest disasters that the American
Red Cross has ever responded to in over -- a history of 140 years
serving our country. That's pretty significant that we took that hit
right here in South Florida, but also a testament to show you how
strong and resilient our community is.
We did over 260,000 damage assessments and identified over
20,000 homes that were either major [sic] or destroyed.
And now we move into our long-term recovery efforts. So we
are standing up that program. We are working every day with our
partners. Moving forward, we have funds that will be available for
grants. We have a process that's going to be open in the next couple
weeks to be able to offer those grants to our community. We also
have distributed in direct financial assistance $28 million over an
eight-week period of time, and those are funds that went right into the
March 14, 2023
Page 14
hands of our community as they move forward with their recovery.
Additionally, we are starting a community adaptation program,
and so that is going to help make our community more resilient as we
continue to experience weather-related disasters across the country.
So thank you so much for your time today and for recognizing
March as Red Cross Month. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks for all you do.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You've got a good guy here in
Collier County as a volunteer. Top guy. Former Air Force guy, so,
yeah.
MR. SANDERS: Former colonel. Thank you, Colonel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks for all you do, Dennis.
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 18, 2023, AS SAVE
THE FLORIDA PANTHER DAY IN COLLIER COUNTY.
ACCEPTED BY MEREDITH BUDD, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE
FRIENDS OF THE FLORIDA PANTHER REFUGE. - MOTION
TO APPROVED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED - 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4C is a proclamation designating
March 18th, 2023, as Save the Florida Panther Day in Collier County.
To be accepted by Meredith Budd, vice president of the Friends of
the Florida Panther Refuge.
(Applause.)
MS. BUDD: Thank you so much. Thank you.
Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Meredith Budd,
and on behalf of the Friends of the Florida Panther Refuge, I'd like to
March 14, 2023
Page 15
thank you, the County Commission, as well as the residents of Collier
County for recognizing March 18th, 2023, as Save the Florida
Panther Day.
I'm joined here today by Erin Myers, the manager of the refuge
over at the Florida Panther National Wildlife Refuge.
People from all over the world come to enjoy Collier County's
unique environment. We have recreational opportunities from the
Ten Thousand Islands out to the ancient cypress swamp in Big
Cypress National Preserve. And we're responsible to future
generations to protect these irreplaceable ecosystems.
The Florida panther is an iconic symbol of Southwest Florida.
They are the official state animal, but they're critically endangered.
Protecting and recovering this species cannot be accomplished alone.
It takes all stakeholders coming together in partnerships across all
sectors. And the partnerships that have been forged here in
Southwest Florida, and especially here in Collier County, have
helped the Florida panther come back from the brink of extinction.
Save the Florida Panther Day is celebrated on the third Saturday
in March every year, and we will celebrate it this year at the Florida
Panther National Wildlife Refuge this coming Saturday on the 18th
with a family-friendly event. The refuge is located here in Collier
County at State Road 29 and I-75, and the event will be held from
9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. this Saturday. It's an open house, and we'll
host free activities for all ages from guided hikes to swamp buggy
tours and other educational opportunities right in the heart of Florida
panther habitat.
So thank you again for recognizing the third Saturday this year
in March as Save the Florida Panther Day, and we hope to see
everyone out at the refuge this weekend. Thank you so much.
Item #4D
March 14, 2023
Page 16
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 14, 2023, AS
GENTLE'MEN AGAINST DOMESTIC VIOLENCE DAY IN
COLLIER COUNTY. ACCEPTED BY COLLIER COUNTY
SHERIFF KEVIN RAMBOSK. - MOTION TO APPROVED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED - 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4D is a proclamation designating
March 14th, 2023, as Gentle'men Against Domestic Violence Day in
Collier County to be accepted by Collier County Sheriff Kevin
Rambosk.
(Applause.)
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: We have a whole group of people that
are founders and participants. If you will all come up, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I wore my purple tie today.
UNIDENTIFID SPEAKER: That's a long time to hold my
smile.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good morning. For the record, Kevin
Rambosk, Collier County Sheriff, also a member of the shelter board
of directors and a proud member of the Gentle'men Against Domestic
Violence.
I'm here to represent and thank you on behalf of the Shelter for
this recognition of Gentle'men Against Domestic Violence.
You know, this was established in 2008 by a group of
like-minded men who wanted to put a stop to domestic violence and
human trafficking. We have the founding members here with us
today as well as several of our current members; Ron Cielsa, Colin
Estrem, and Corey Lazar, who were just up here with us.
And, you know, it's important to continue to look at the impacts
of this, because we have over 14 -- or 1,500 911 calls to the
March 14, 2023
Page 17
Communications Center regarding domestic violence in a year. And
if you think about we only really get 50 percent of those calls
reported in, there's much more activity that is going on than we
actually respond to.
And, you know, the impact on our community is conservatively
estimated to be about $30 million a year. So that's important but not
as important as keeping our community safe.
And on this particular day, with GADV, we want to commit as a
group and invite other men into this group to stop domestic violence
in all of Collier County. We've got to take an active role to change
the culture to make this not tolerated in Collier County, and we're
asking all of those persons to do that.
Today you'll see in the Naples Daily News a full-page ad that
identifies 350 of our current members who are all taking a stand to
stop domestic violence in Collier County. And on behalf of all of
those gentlemen and all of those to come and you for recognizing this
important day, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Sheriff.
(Applause.)
Item #4E
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 20-24, 2023, AS
GOVERNMENT FINANCE PROFESSIONALS’ WEEK IN
COLLIER COUNTY, JOINING IN THE STATEWIDE
RECOGNITION OF GOVERNMENT FINANCE
PROFESSIONALS. ACCEPTED BY DEREK JOHNSSEN,
MICHAEL NETTI, CHRISTOPHER DAY, AND KELLY JONES
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE. - MOTION TO
APPROVED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – ADOPTED - 5/0
March 14, 2023
Page 18
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4E is a proclamation designating
March 20th through 24th, 2023, as Government Finance
Professionals Week in Collier County, joining in the statewide
recognition of government finance professionals. To be accepted by
Derek Johnssen, Michael Netti, Christopher Day, and Kelly Jones of
the Collier County Clerk's Office.
(Applause.)
MR. JOHNSSEN: Whoever's in the middle gets to hold that.
Commissioners, Derek Johnssen, finance director for the Clerk
and Comptroller's Office.
Thank you so much for this recognition. On behalf of all the
finance offices across the county agencies, I would like to thank you.
Few are the finance professionals that I have met who felt it was
more of a job than a calling, and we really believe that. So thank
you, and it's time to get back to that calling.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, could we get a motion to
accept the proclamations?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
March 14, 2023
Page 19
Item #5A
ARTIST OF THE MONTH –BY VARIOUS COLLIER COUNTY
PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5A is our Artist of the Month,
Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I'm going to read -- so if
you look in the back, we have some new exhibits. Our March Artist
of the Month exhibit includes selected drawings and paintings
submitted actually by students from our Collier County Public
Schools fine arts programs.
There is an art teacher in every elementary and middle school
here in Collier County and multiple art teachers in the high schools.
Students are provided opportunities to work with a variety -- in a
variety of mediums such as sculpture and ceramics, drawing and
painting, photography, and even digital art.
Throughout the school year, the students participate in multiple
art shows and community displays. This is the second year our art
students were asked to submit a piece of art for display here in our
chambers, and they call it the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners Show. This is our -- this is the art that you see
displayed in the back, and we thank them very much for their talent.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #5B
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE MONTH FOR MARCH 2023 TO DAY ADJUSTING &
March 14, 2023
Page 20
CONSULTING. THE AWARD WILL BE ACCEPTED BY BLAKE
DAY, OWNER. ALSO ATTENDING IS MICHAEL DALBY, CEO
OF THE GREATER NAPLES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. –
PRESENTED
MS PATTERSON: Item 5B is a presentation of the Collier
County Business of the Month for March 2023 to Day Adjusting and
Consulting. The award will be accepted by Blake Day, owner.
Also attending is Michael Dalby, CEO of the Greater Naples
Chamber of Commerce.
(Applause.)
MR. DAY: I've got to this down. I'm a little short.
First of all, thank you for this. Collier County is our home.
You know, it's where I set up this business five years ago. You
know, we've exploded. We're representing about a hundred million
dollars in disputed insurance claims.
I know there was a recent Washington Post article this past
Saturday that only 35 percent of claims right now are actually settled
here in Collier County. So we're working every day to work with
local business owners, homeowners who are currently in disputes
with their insurance company to try to get them where they need to
be so we can get back to business and make Collier County the
beautiful place that it's always been.
And I thank you guys for this honor, and hopefully we can get
these claims settled and get everybody back into their homes and
living nice and peacefully. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks, Blake.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
March 14, 2023
Page 21
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 7, public comments
on general topics not on the current or future agenda.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we have four registered speakers for
this item. We have five registered speakers for this item. Your first
speaker is John Johnson to be followed by Shelley McKernan.
Either microphone, sir.
Ms. McKernan, if we could get you to queue up at the other
microphone, that would be appreciated.
MR. JOHNSON: Good morning, Commissioners. How are
you?
The question that I have is I manage several real estate
properties/rentals in Golden Gate, and the problem that we're having
is rental increases are ridiculous. Property taxes continue to go up
because the value of the properties go up. Property values go up,
insurance goes up.
Back in 2012, our two bedroom/one baths were $650. Now
they're $1,500. I don't know if the county can do something as far
as, like, some sort of homesteading for long-term rental buildings to
help these people with rents. I don't know what the solution is, but
we're forcing these people away from living in Collier County, the
jobs that we need here. They just can't afford it, you know.
So I don't know if there's some assistance that we can have. I
know there's -- one of the buildings that we put up for sale was -- the
county offered $825,000 for it to basically put four families in there.
We didn't accept the contract with the county. Sold the building for
$860,000. But if the county can afford $825,000 to put four families
in, can they assist a couple hundred dollars a month with multiple
families on rents? I don't know exactly what the programs are or
how it works, but I think something's got to be done with rental
March 14, 2023
Page 22
assistance for tenants here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Have you communicated
with Commissioner Hall yet?
MR. JOHNSON: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Please do. He's our Board
liaison for the Affordable Housing Committee. And I suggest that
you speak directly with him, and then we -- and/or -- and you said
you own or manage properties in Golden Gate?
MR. JOHNSON: I manage 28 properties. They're all in
Golden Gate City.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In the city, okay. And then
Commissioner Saunders, who's online today, is the commissioner
particularly of that district. So between the two of them, someone
can get you some answers.
MR. JOHNSON: I'll just look you up online and find you?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a
great day.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shelley McKernan.
She'll be followed by Darin Prizzi.
MS. McKERNAN: Hello. For the record, my name is Shelley
McKernan. I'm a city resident. I come to you as a woman with
rights, to each of you, my fellow man, Chris Hall, Rick LoCastro,
Bill McDaniels [sic], Burt Saunders, and Dan Kowal.
I am being harmed. For the past few weeks during this harmful
algal bloom, my health has been impacted. Every weekend I
entertain tourists at resorts for hours outdoors. After the first
weekend during the major bloom, I was actually impacted and was
unwell for many days following. I live in the city and smell the
airborne toxin every day.
After so much time, I can't stay outside. It impacts my work.
March 14, 2023
Page 23
The people I work with are feeling the impacts as well and are
becoming lethargic, have a cough, allergic reactions, headaches,
throwing up, no appetite, nausea, and more. How many more of our
workforce and fellow friends and family have to get sick for anyone
in the county to do something?
Today I have a very clear ask. Set up protocol for these
harmful algal blooms. Remove nutrients from the waterways by
having a fertilizer and reuse water ban. Nutrients feed algae. Reuse
water contains nutrients. Remove those nutrients, and we can keep
using our reuse water.
Treat the bloom with blue/green water technologies. All the
information has been sent to you all to review and contact.
Let the men and women of Collier County know you care about
their health and you are doing your best to prioritize yours and their
health. Set up a meeting with Ashley Jenkins and I, which we have
requested, so we can inform you of the full picture. It's a lot of
information, but it's a complicated problem.
We are the number-one place to live, a Blue Zone location, and
continuously growing. We all deserve clean, healthy water in one of
the most expensive places to live. We don't want to watch our
community get sick, property values drop, and the word get out that
we have so many harmful algal blooms that no one wants to visit or,
worse, we are on national news.
We had our worst algal blooms following Hurricane Irma. We
were experiencing the same -- we are expecting the same, if not
worse, from Hurricane Ian. This is just the beginning. We have
been trying to warn you since October.
Let's address our known problems preemptively. I'm not paid
in any capacity by the solutions of the vendors mentioned. I ask you
to honor my rights as your fellow man seeking solutions which
impacts you, my fellow man.
March 14, 2023
Page 24
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Darin Prizzi. He'll be
followed by Ashley Jenkins.
MR. PRIZZI: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning.
MR. PRIZZI: My name is Darin Prizzi. I'm a local resident.
My main concern today is water, our water. And I'd like to know
what we're -- or City Council has planned for rain runoff into our
lower elevations like our bay, our beaches.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Stay on the microphone.
MR. PRIZZI: What obligations do we all have to our own
community? I come to you today because I do a lot of fishing. I'm
a local resident. I have kids of my own. My concern, as Shelley
just pointed out, a lot of these things are occurring more and more
every year.
What has City Council -- have they looked into rain runoff and
the -- and the cause and effect that it can have on our community?
Can you just give me an idea?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Your public comment is just you
getting three minutes to tell us what's on your mind, and it's not a
debate back and forth. So we're here to hear you out, so...
MR. PRIZZI: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So the mic is yours, sir.
MR. PRIZZI: Well, I guess my main concern is to see how far
we're going to go with this, and do our own -- you know, your
grandchild, your family swim? We all prosper here. We work here,
but we all share that one common goal is we have an obligation to
clean up our community, and part of that is rain runoff. Rain runoff
can bring contaminates locally from afar into our street sewers, which
we drop in pipes that come out to the ocean and the bay.
I guess my one question is, what do we plan on doing about rain
March 14, 2023
Page 25
runoff?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. PRIZZI: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am?
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ashley Jenkins. She'll be
followed online by Ashley Jones.
MS. JENKINS: For the record, my name is Ashley Jenkins, a
city resident, and I come to you as a woman this morning with rights,
to each as my fellow man, Chris Hall, Rick LoCastro, Bill McDaniel,
Burt Saunders, and Dan Kowal. And today I have some clear asks
for you gentlemen.
First, I would like to see a created local policy over Collier
County to protect our rights for clean water above the proposed
HB1197 and SB1240.
Second, create an inner county council with all boards,
municipalities that have responsibilities to keep our water clean.
The Big Cypress, Marco Island, Naples City are ready to hear from
you. Everglades City has been polluting the water via their water
treatment and needs to be included.
I was told last Thursday at Mr. Kowal's town hall that he would
propose agenda items for 3/28/23 to get solutions into cleaning our
water.
I'm personally being harmed. The harmful algal bloom has
caused eye irritation with a second pair of contact lens breaking in
my eye days after inserting a fresh pair.
Respiratory duress, loss of voice, congestion, migraines have
resulted in loss of work production.
Prolonged exposure to this toxin has the capacity to adversely
harm neurological ability from emitting a brevetoxin linked to early
onset dementia. I have been unable to safely walk the county
beaches since 9/27/22, as no conclusive tests or treatments for v
March 14, 2023
Page 26
vulnificus, the flesh-eating bacteria, have been conducted.
Hiring a contractor to fetch dead fish for 100,000 neither solves
the root cause or the actual problem. As it was mentioned,
blue/green water technologies is approved by the FDEP to go into the
water. It can treat a harmful algal bloom within 72 hours. It's
hydrogen peroxide based. This is cost effective with a broader
impact than a $24 million berm sand dune project.
The dead algae must be treated with an anaerobic bacteria such
as possible is Ecological Labs. They are in Swan Lakes, in talks
with Big Cypress Water Basin, and pending approval from you for
the Bayshore CRA.
Otherwise, the harmful algal bloom will merely repopulate and
continue the utrification [sic] cycle, especially being fed nutrients in
our waterways. Advanced filtration is necessary.
Trinity had originally offered Darin Prizzy of Flow Clear a trial
in our county in front of Ed Finn, John Mullins, Amy Patterson, and
myself on 10/31/22, and I don't believe there was any successful
follow-up.
Zero nutrients are to be in our water which feed the harmful
algal blooms. Looking into renewable nutrients to solve this
problem would be useful.
Third, my ask is to ban reuse water in the county until nutrients
of nitrogen and phosphorus are removed that feed the algae.
The coastal advisory has 36 million to possibly impact coastal
waterways and beaches, months of championing for solutions. I've
been asked to help the RFI in Marco Island. Naples City councilmen
have schedule. Chris and Rick, I have yet to hear from you from my
last email.
I'm not paid to be in any capacity by the solutions or vendors
that I've mentioned, and I ask that you honor my rights as your fellow
man seeking solutions which impact you also, my fellow man.
March 14, 2023
Page 27
Thank you, gentlemen.
MR. MILLER: Your final registered speaker for Item 7 is
online, Ashley Jones.
Ashley, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. You've
done that. You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. JONES: Good morning, Commissioners. Hurricanes hit
hardest in unprepared communities. For Florida, and especially
Collier County, the unending and unaddressed housing crisis, coupled
with Hurricane Ian's devastation, has become a catastrophic disaster.
Yes, it is worst -- it's the worst hurricane on record for Florida;
however, the impact could have been better mitigated with extensive
blue sky housing solutions and progressively planning for the
inevitable destruction of low-income housing by natural disasters.
The challenge with Hurricane Ian's recovery began years before
Hurricane Ian. Collier County already had a critical housing
shortage. In fact, we had a critical housing shortage before
Hurricane Ian [sic] in 2017 that devastated much of our mobile home
housing, thus leading to a more significant -- significant deficit in
affordable housing as the new mobile prices as well as rental lots and
HOA fees now price the everyday workforce employee out of range.
We also have a high percentage of Collier County in a
floodplain which continues to obstruct FEMA recovery trailer
placements. Considering that Lee and Charlotte County were hit
harder than Collier, where were our Collier residents to house?
Hotels were filled prior to the storm with residents who had the
financial means and foresight to do so. Also, the more affordable
hotels in Collier County's eastern portion were inundated by the
storm surge. Neither renters nor homeowners had many options.
The need to repair/replace housing units is more critical and
costly. As Collier County was 10,000 units short of affordable
housing before Ian made landfall, it is essential that we explore any
March 14, 2023
Page 28
and every housing recovery option. We need amendments to county
ordinance and permitting to allow travel trailers, mobile homes, and
other housing solutions such as tiny homes, and allow homeowners to
rent their bedrooms. We need funding to purchase alternate housing
units and building materials to pay construction workforce teams.
We need lighter zoning allowances that allow travel and mobile
homes to remain in nontraditional locations for extended periods.
In summary, a successful recovery must include individual
assistance funds, a qualified recovery team, and local, state, and
national buy-in particularly regarding expanding housing recovery
options. We all know that a complete recovery is a dream goal. It
will certainly take the combined efforts and collaboration of
government, private, non-profit partners to accomplish an amount of
recovery success.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, that was our final registered speaker
under Item 7.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
Item #10A
THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE A MEMORANDUM OF
AGREEMENT AND ESCROW AGREEMENT FROM THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS’ AFFAIRS (FDVA)
FOR THE COUNTY TO APPROPRIATE $30 MILLION FOR THE
“STATE VETERANS’ NURSING HOME” PROJECT USING
INFRASTRUCTURE SALES SURTAX FUNDING. (ALL
DISTRICTS) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL –
APPROVED - 5/0
March 14, 2023
Page 29
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 10.
Item 10A is a recommendation to approve and authorize the
Chairman to execute a Memorandum of Agreement and Escrow
Agreement from the Florida Department of Veterans Affairs for the
county to appropriate $30 million for the State Veterans Nursing
Home project using infrastructure sales surtax funding.
This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.
MR. MILLER: He is with us online.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir. The floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, let me jump in for just a
minute here. I have spoken with the Clerk, Crystal Kinzel, on
several occasions concerning these agreements. She has raised some
concerns. I've assured her that we will get whatever cover she needs
from the County Attorney concerning the legality of forwarding the
$30 million to the state for this project.
I believe -- and I can't speak for her necessarily -- but I believe
she is satisfied with that, with that understanding, that any questions
she has will be addressed by the County Attorney at a future date.
So I would ask the Commission to approve both of these
agreements this morning that keeps us on track for this project.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Commissioner
Saunders.
I don't know, Ms. Kinzel, if you had anything that you wanted to
add before we -- the floor is yours.
MS. KINZEL: Actually, Commissioners, thank you. Clerk
Kinzel, for the record.
I was hoping to hear discussion and direction in total. I've
expressed -- I've spoken with each of you individually as well as
Commissioner Saunders, as he's indicated. And I first want to put on
March 14, 2023
Page 30
the record I absolutely support the veterans project and facility for
Collier County. It's needed. The citizens want it. We think we
have the need.
But I do have some concerns about this particular document
that's in front of you. I've gone over several of those, but let me just
articulate them for the record. The donation of the property isn't
really even finalized as to location or suitability for the project, but
it's included in here. There's also no determinable value that's been
placed on that property because we're still waiting on the drawings
and a lot of things that are going to be coming forward over probably
the next year.
The deposit of funds is for an indefinite period because we are a
moving target between the next three or four years. They want the
$30 million deposit on May 1, but the project seems to have been
delayed.
The 30 million's requested to an escrow account to the state, but
the terms of the last draft that appeared on your agenda really doesn't
seem to be an actual escrow, because the full authority to withdraw
funds is only by the state Veterans Department. Usually in an
escrow, you put it with the county having some authority and the
state having some authority, and that manages the funds and you have
it in an independent escrow.
This is giving the full authority for withdrawal from those funds
purely to the Veterans Department. So I somewhat have concerns
about transferring 30 million without those controls or some
management aspect from county government and management.
They're charging a fee. They do not guarantee interest.
Interest on 30 million until it's drawn down, and the balance can be
significant over the year or years that this might be on deposit, and
the fee could be significant. It is defined by statute as a running
balance amount.
March 14, 2023
Page 31
So those are all elements that -- I understand the state and feds,
they want a commitment from us. But I was wondering if something
like a letter or resolution of our determination. You have committed
the funds. The taxpayers have authorized 30 million. You're
committing the land which we own. We haven't really put a value to
that yet, but that will be simple once the parameters are defined, most
probably.
So I would just like to recommend that you think through those
elements and consider that in discussions on this today. You've
already segregated the 30 million. It is sitting in its own account
under the sales tax. It cannot be spent for other things without some
much larger actions. And I do see those commitments.
Now, Commissioner Saunders, I did say -- I was hoping the
discussion would go before my points and that maybe some of the
things had been worked out. I've spoken to the County Attorney on
several occasions, and this really is somewhat of an agreement
because we trust the state.
I'm always a "trust but verify" when it comes to money, so I just
wanted to put those items on the record for your consideration, and
I'll wait to hear your discussion and decision. Okay, thanks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Does Commissioner Saunders
want to make a comment on any of those points?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, and
I appreciate that.
I certainly understand the Clerk's concerns about this agreement.
This is not your typical commercial escrow agreement where you
have a developer who's building something, and there's some
commitments, and there's a fund put in place that's held by an
independent party.
This is -- I do trust the state, and there are provisions in the
agreement that give me complete comfort. One is that the funds can
March 14, 2023
Page 32
only be spent for a veterans nursing home in Collier County and,
number two, if the project, for any reason, doesn't go forward, the
state will refund without delay, and that language is in the
agreement -- without delay will return the funds plus interest. So
there's really no issue about the project going forward. If it doesn't
go forward, we get our money back plus the interest.
The fee that is being charged is a statutory fee. It's a very small
fee. We can't do anything to change that.
So this is really one of those situations where I don't think we
have to verify the fact that the state will return those funds. They
have a contract that says that they will. I have no doubt that they
will. We've all met with the Department of Veterans Affairs, and I
think that to move this project forward, we need to move this on
today.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Attorney, do you have any
comment?
MR. KLATZKOW: I've spoken with the Clerk, and as I told
the Clerk, if this was anybody but the state, I would fully appreciate
her concerns. But this is the state. And I will remind everybody we
are a political subdivision of the state. I have no worries whatsoever
that should the veterans home not come to Collier County, that we
will get our money back with interest less any statutory fees.
Again, if this was anybody but the state, I would completely
share the Clerk's concerns, but this is the State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I'm assuming
Commissioner Saunders, you're -- your comments were a motion for
approval?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, sir, for both of the
agreements.
March 14, 2023
Page 33
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm going to second that.
But for comment's sake, I share the concerns that the Clerk has
with regard to this. It is, in fact, unusual. We had very successful
meetings last week with the Department of Veterans Affairs. And I,
candidly, would prefer we keep the money until the project's actually
blessed and approved and, relatively speaking, it's blessed and
approved. But I'm going to vote -- I'm going to second your motion
but put on the record that I have similar concerns to the Clerk.
I am also aware that this isn't a typical developer agreement with
an independent contractor or anything along those lines; that there is
federal departments involved with regard to this construction, and
this transfer of funds actually allows for the Department of Veterans
Administration to apply for new construction costs that are associated
with today's costs and not that -- when, Commissioner Saunders, you
and I started working on this project clear back in '16/'17, those were
the numbers that were used with the Federal Department of Veterans
Affairs, and there is a shortfall from those estimated costs to say
what, in fact, is needed today.
So I share the Clerk's concerns with regard to the county being
a -- not your normal -- not your normal developer agreement, if you
will. But on the same token, I full well understand the necessity to
show the good faith and let the Federal Department of Veterans
Affairs that we're on board with this. So my second is there and my
comments.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm definitely going to support it to
move forward but I share the Clerk's concerns greatly, just from
being a regular businessman. You know, some of the things that she
has pointed out is in the negotiations that the county gets involved in,
we do tend to sometimes get the cart before the horse, and we do
things that put us in a particular situation; not speaking about this
March 14, 2023
Page 34
deal particularly. Things like we don't have an exact survey; we
don't have the exact metes and bounds of the property that we're
giving the veterans home. We don't have the exact value of that.
That's value to the deal that the county is putting in.
So those things I do -- I do share with her. At the same time,
we were all there. We know the resolve of the DVA to move
forward with this deal to give Collier County a gold standard -- you
know, a nursing home -- a veterans nursing home that will be the
envy of the nation. And so to move forward with that, I think it's a
good thing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I guess my question is, you know,
I share all those concerns, but we have the ability to put whatever
additional wording we think would make this a document that more
represents what we're concerned about.
So I guess what I would offer maybe to the County Attorney,
Commissioner Saunders, Ms. Kinzel, is is there any suggestion of
specific wording to edit this MOA that would, you know, address our
concerns without, you know, affecting the agreement?
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, I will tell you --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- if I might jump in just for
a second.
I apologize, Mr. Klatzkow, for jumping ahead of you here.
The county staff and the County Attorney did a yeoman's job of
working with the state trying to get language in that the Clerk really
wanted to have in there. So, for example, the County Attorney put
into the draft of the agreement that the Clerk would have a signatory
obligation or responsibility before any funds could be released from
the escrow.
The state and the Department of Veterans Affairs said that's a
March 14, 2023
Page 35
nonstarter. We have to use the form that is approved by the state.
We really -- the county really did an effort to modify this agreement.
This is kind of what we have. And, again, it's an agreement that
really does protect the county. So I would suggest that there really is
not an opportunity to amend this. This is really -- I hate to say it's
take it or leave it, but I think that's where we are.
But, again, the language in the agreement is very clear that those
funds would be returned to the county with interest and without delay
if this project doesn't go forward for any reason. The county can
send that money up tomorrow and two days later say, if we want it
back, and they'd have to give it back to us. So I would say there
really is not an opportunity to amend this agreement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I echo my fellow commissioners up here, the concerns the Clerk
has brought forth and talked to me about also. But I think the bigger
picture here is that, you know, we're dealing with not only the state
DVA and then, of course, the federal government with the Veterans
Affairs at a federal level, too.
And I think we all felt the same way. And we talked to the
DVA in Tallahassee at the beginning of last week and how they felt
that, by us taking these steps, it's showing that we're really -- we're
the next one in line to get this project, and I think that's the most
important thing here.
And I think secondly is that, you know, we still have to get them
to earmark the 500,000 for design and development. And, you
know, we don't have that yet, and we'd like that in the language of
this upcoming legislation to get this ball moving. And I think our
commitment to what we're bringing to the table, I think, is going to
motivate them to follow up and see us getting that design money
earmarked for us and nobody else.
March 14, 2023
Page 36
So, you know, I feel the concerns but, at the same time, I feel
like we're playing, you know, with three big boys, and we've got to
do what we've got to do to bring this to the table to get it finalized
and get it moving forward, so I'd have to agree on moving forward on
this today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Klatzkow, do you have any
further comment?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. Commissioner Saunders said it far
more eloquently than I could.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I find that hard to believe. No,
I'm just kidding.
The paragraph that jumps out at me is exactly what
Commissioner Saunders is saying. It's the top of Page 2 where
there's a whole paragraph. And I won't read any of it. But it's the
"out" clause with -- to give us the money back in interest. And, you
know, we "happy to glad" this thing to death. I always sort of, you
know, say at times, you know, we can sit here and change the word
"small dog" and put in "puppy" and change "happy" and put in
"glad."
And I just want to know from the County Attorney, and you've
already confirmed it, that, you know, we could wordsmith this thing
all day, but is this a document that we have any legal concerns over?
Because we were all in Tallahassee and, like you said, we won't
belabor that or summarize that. But, you know, we sat down at the
table with all parties concerned and, you know, things are moving
forward in a very positive way. On the flip side, though, these
documents that outline the legal agreement and the financial one need
to be tight. So that's why I don't want to sit here and wordsmith the
thing to death, but I just want to make sure we're on solid ground and
there's no -- there's no paragraphs that are missing here. And it
sounds like we've already wordsmithed it a bit; would you agree?
March 14, 2023
Page 37
MR. KLATZKOW: I have no legal -- I have no legal worries
about this. Again, this is the State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: They're not going to take our money.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Mullins, did you have
anything you wanted to add before we -- I think we've heard from
everybody.
MR. MULLINS: Yeah. Commissioners, John Mullins, for the
record, your director of Communications, Government, and Public
Affairs.
To speak to the actual transfer of the money by May 1st as
opposed to holding it for another year, there is a practical impact of
that that I can demonstrate for you real quick.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MULLINS: I know that's kind of hard to read; I
apologize. If you look at it, though, right now there's been a
standing application before the VA construction grant program from
the State of Florida for a facility, generally, in what they call West
Florida.
As of right now, they are ranked No. 36, which puts them in
what is known as Priority Group 4. That is a group where you have
not demonstrated that you have in-hand funding.
As you can see if you slide this down, by having the funds in
hand and unencumbered, which is DVA's objection to having any
other signatory on the escrow other than themselves and the escrow
agent, you would be right -- you'd be between No. 2 and No. 3, which
means, cumulatively -- easy for me to say -- $5 million into what is
usually a $90 million appropriations cycle for the construction grant
program, you would be next in line for funding.
So it's a much better position to be right there at No. 3 to receive
the construction grant funds than it would be to not show that you
March 14, 2023
Page 38
have the funds in hand with the State of Florida and be at No. 36.
Funding will not reach you down there. So just to give you kind of a
practical picture as to what the transfer of money may mean in
ranking.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
I mean, I'll just maybe close this out by saying, I don't think
anybody's confused as to what the transfer of money will do. It will
help further -- like you said, move us up the list and solidify our
agreement with the state. We all get that. On the flip side, our
Clerk of Courts, her comments have merit, significant merit as we all
agree.
I also will support this document based on what I've heard here
and also our meetings in Tallahassee. I think it just goes without
saying, all throughout this process, Ms. Kinzel has a very, very
important job in this as we continue to go further.
So, you know, like I said, it goes without saying, let's make sure
she's in the kitchen cabinet, so to speak, of the nucleus of our team,
and if at any time you think that we're in some sort of jeopardy or
there's some confusion or something is circling around that's not good
for Collier County, don't be shy to tell us that.
MS. KINZEL: No, I'm usually not shy, unfortunately. But I
do -- I really appreciate you-all walking through this and working
through this with me. Obviously, I would not intend to jeopardize
the total funding. I am looking at the agreement and the strength of
the agreement. And while it says they will return the funds, that
would be a balance after whatever they have spent or if it is
determined future down the line. There's no real defined amount.
They're not going to return 30 million. It doesn't say they'd return
the whole 30 million, because they'll be drawing down on those funds
as applicable, even if it doesn't come to be developed.
So those are some of the fiscal strengths. And I recognize that
March 14, 2023
Page 39
it may not be a typical escrow, but an escrow usually does have
counterpart balance. The first agreement didn't require the Clerk's
signature. It had requested, and they had included, the Chairman of
the Board's signature. So those were some of the nuances that have
come through the different drafts.
But I have worked with county staff, and I fully appreciate this
is it, this is the state, and I will definitely stay on it, because
30 million is a lot of money for Collier County. And I think it is a
good, you know, measurement. We'll get the reports from them that
they've offered, I believe, quarterly. I'd really like to see those
monthly. Maybe that's one concession, we could get it a little sooner
rather than later on the reporting elements if they produce those, and
I'll keep an eye on that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I'll put you on the spot here.
Your autograph is required on the final page of this MOA. Do you
have reservations signing it?
MS. KINZEL: No, that signature on the agreement is only to
attest that you are who you are, but my signature does have to go on
the check, which is where I always have the grandest of concerns.
But I understand the position of the county, and we'll -- you know,
we'll work through that, okay?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. KINZEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
March 14, 2023
Page 40
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Item #11A
AN UPDATE ON THE CONCRETE CRUSHING ACTIVITIES ON
THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF
SANTA BARBARA BLVD AND DAVIS BLVD (TAORMINA
RESERVE MPUD). (JAIME COOK, DIRECTOR,
DEVELOPMENT REVIEW DIVISION) (ALL DISTRICTS) -
DISCUSSED – UPDATE ACCEPTED
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to our 10:00 time-certain.
This is Item 11A. This is a recommendation to accept an update on
the concrete crushing activities on the property located at the
southeast corner of Santa Barbara Boulevard and Davis Boulevard.
Ms. Jaime Cook, your director of Development Review, will present.
MS. COOK: Good morning, Commissioners. Jaime Cook,
director of Development Review at Growth Management/Community
Development.
At the last Board meeting, you had requested that we have an
on-site meeting at the Taormina property with the property owner and
the contractor.
Commissioner McDaniel did come out and meet on site with us,
as well as the property owners and the contractor. It was kind of
determined at that meeting that the bigger issue is not the actual
crushing operation. It's the separating of the material, because there
is so much material that still needs to be separated.
As requested, I do have Mr. Harry Hubschman, Mr. Adam
Hubschman, and Chris Gehring here to answer any questions that you
March 14, 2023
Page 41
may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, did you
want to make any comments before we hear from them on what you
accomplished, saw, did on site or --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just to echo what Jaime had
to say with regard to their collaboration. They're doing the best they
can with what they have to work with at this particular stage.
They're -- and as any of us have driven by the site recently can
tell, that they're working up along the west side along Santa Barbara
now towards Davis, and they'll build that perimeter around that
project. The piles that are there are not five stories high. They are
about --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It feels that way.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They are about 15 feet high.
The loader wouldn't reach that high, and they're not driving up on
top. But I also want to suggest that those piles offer up a very good
site and sound barrier. As the project goes forward, they'll work
their way around the perimeter and into the middle. So -- and, again,
when you --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The citizens that live in that
neighborhood don't agree with you, but I hear everything you're
saying.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. Well -- but I
just wanted to clarify the statements that have been made. And,
again, as you folks know, when -- in my prior life, I have operated
those machineries. And when you have that many moving parts,
something's going to break all the time. So they're struggling with
those issues as well but, in fact, moving forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, the floor is yours.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Commissioners, the breakdowns are the
one machine is -- Chris can talk to the severity of the breakdown,
March 14, 2023
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because they had to order a part from the UK. That's quite a long
way to get a part for a machine like that, I guess.
The one machine was working well. We had only one densifier
working, and we're hoping to get two more densifiers out this week.
Chris is here, and he can talk to that if -- speak to that issue.
Also, the -- I don't know, Chris, when is the part coming for the
broken down pressure?
MR. GEHRING: We're hoping that he that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's bring him
up -- Mr. Hubschman, let's bring Chris up to the mic so we can ask
our questions, if you don't mind.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: No problem.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And if you would, please,
share with the audience what a densifier is.
MR. GEHRING: So --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: State your name for the record.
MR. GEHRING: Chris Gehring, president, Earth Tech
Enterprises.
A densifier is an attachment that goes on one of the excavators
that downsizes the big concrete and helps to remove the steel. So a
lot of that material there, you know, is so full of steel that we can't
just put it into the crusher. So it's a process of preparing that
material before it can go into the crusher.
And we have -- we actually ordered two new densifiers. One
got here Monday. They're installing it now. And we have another
one on order for another machine that we're hoping will be here this
week, and then we'll put that one on, and that is the process
where -- that slows everything down. We need to -- we need to
prepare this material for the crusher. We could have 10 crushers in
there, but we can't throw, you know, a 20-foot piece of concrete in
there that's full of steel. We have to downsize all of that to about 12
March 14, 2023
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or 15 inches, and then that removes the steel. When we crush it, it
just pulverizes the concrete and pops it off the steel.
So there's a lot more material, like, footers and tie beams that are
full of steel that that are down inside the pile that are kind of covered
up with some of what looks like easier material to crush. So we
have to remove that easy material, crush it, and then we're down to
this material now that we have to densify and prepare for the crusher.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are the extra days -- the extra day
that we approved, you know, a couple months ago and the hours is
that -- you know, it just seems like when we get the results of -- and
granted some of it is because equipment has broken down, but I guess
I was hoping less -- I was hoping to be more impressed with the
progress being made allowing crushing to go longer hours on the
weekend and, you know, that sort of thing, but it just seems like
it's -- it averages about the same.
MR. GEHRING: It certainly has helped us a lot, because in the
beginning we're removing the material that's easy to get to the
material that's hard. So we've crushed a lot of what would -- none of
it's really easy, but the easier material that we don't have to prepare as
much. We were crushing that in the beginning, and now we're
getting to the core of the really -- the really harder material that we
have to prepare. So that's -- so the production -- you know, so at this
point the production is kind of staying the same, which I think is
good, because, you know, the material is harder to prepare, and
there's a lot more of it than we expected.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you a question about
the piles, and -- I mean, you know, appreciate Commissioner
McDaniel correcting the record. You know, tongue in cheek, I was
like, you know, we have 50-foot piles out there. But the difference
is, I actually hear from these citizens, and maybe the other
commissioners here don't. The takeaway isn't so much, you know,
March 14, 2023
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get a yardstick and measure the piles, but the silt fences are worthless
when the piles are all well above the silt fence.
And even though it might help with noise and all the other
things, you could make, you know, that argument, you know, the
question I just need to hear from you on the record -- because I get
this question from a lot of citizens -- are why aren't they spreading it?
Why are they crushing it and piling it, crushing it and piling it?
And I'm not an expert the way Commissioner McDaniel is, but
if you live out in the community, alls you're seeing is -- to the
citizens -- is rock just being moved around. And I know that's not
the case, because I actually have been out on the site and, like you
said, you're getting to the core of the concrete that has a lot of steel in
it, and it's a much slower process.
But what's the rationale or the sequence of events that, once you
start piling up the crushed rock and it's all separated from the steel,
then what? I mean, that's what a lot of folks in the neighborhood are
asking, because they -- they're wondering, once all the rock gets
crushed, are they going to see 10 Mount Everests. And even though
it might be 15 feet, if you've been looking at it for years, it seems like
it's 50 feet, especially when it's towering above the silt fence and all
the weeds and all those things. So what's the sequence of events? I
mean, if you could have, like you said, 10 of the right crushers out
there right now and get more quantity processed, then what?
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Well, the mounds that are out there now,
they need to stay mounded up so that we have the room to manage
the other material. You have to spread -- that material was piled up
about anywhere from six to eight, maybe even 10 feet tall. And you
need to spread that material out to get the -- you get the easy stuff
out, and you put it in the crusher. The bigger stuff you have to
spread it out before you can grab it with a densifier. A densifier is
like a giant claw.
March 14, 2023
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How many pounds per square inch does it put out?
MR. GEHRING: Thousands.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Twenty thousand PSI. It grabs a piece
of concrete and, like a scissor, and crushes it and breaks it apart.
You have to spread the material. You can't just crush it and let it fall
into the pile itself. You've got to spread that out. So we need those
piles to stay out of the -- that crushed material to stay out of the way
while we work on the material that hasn't been crushed yet, and we
need that room to spread that material and work it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask you this: If the
concrete that contains the steel is, obviously -- like you said, it's not
the easy stuff. Now that we're sitting here and, you know, we're
about to turn the corner on April, what's your -- what's your response
to why don't you, you know, while you're simultaneously crushing
and getting in this extra equipment, the largest pieces of concrete that
are loaded with steel that are going to move in slow motion, why
don't we take those and remove them from the lot to save you the
time it's going to take to crush a 20 piece -- a 20-foot piece of
concrete loaded with steel that -- you know, I still contend that we, or
you or whoever, delivered concrete faster than it was being crushed.
So that's why we have so much quantity there. It wasn't like we
were sort of keeping up with it. And that happens. But what would
be your response to simultaneously removing the biggest pieces and
trying to whittle away at and taking it to the, you know, appropriate
facility to either crush or dump or whatever the options are? Why
wouldn't we do that at this late juncture?
MR. GEHRING: We would be going back to the same thing
that caused the problem, which is the trucks, the noise, the dust. So
changing the means and methods to go back to what actually caused
the problem in the beginning, that's exactly what we'd be doing if we
started loading it in dumpsters.
March 14, 2023
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So if we took -- if you take the quantities that we're crushing last
week, I think we came up with a little over 3,000 yards. That's
probably -- that's volume reduced to 3,000 yards. So if that
was -- you're putting that in a dumpster in big pieces with voids, you
know, you might be getting 10 yards in a -- 12 yards in a dumpster.
You'd be talking about 250 dumpster loads. You're not going to get
that in a week. You wouldn't even come close. You might -- you
might be getting maybe, if you were lucky, five or 10. You're
creating a bunch of noise. You're going right back to exactly what
caused the problem in the beginning.
And, right now, you know, we're trying to be very methodical
with controlling the dust, controlling the noise, and getting the
production we need. And I think it would actually be a lot slower
process to try to get that concrete out. And I think, you know, you
went over a couple of years to put this material in, and we're just
talking about several months to get it out. So I think our production
way exceeds what actually came in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just when we met out there, I
suggested maybe looking around to see if you could get another
crusher, maybe even a bigger one. Have you had any opportunity in
looking into those alternatives?
MR. GEHRING: We've looked. And what I've had is, you
know, we haven't really been able to secure the crusher. But I think
that, you know, as soon as we got this -- the part that we've been
trying to get from these crushers that -- you know, supply chains have
just been difficult. But we should have both machines back up and
running.
But I feel like our production will increase some with the
densifiers. I'm not -- we've had one crusher steadily crushing every
day, and that's really about all the material that we have been able to
March 14, 2023
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prepare is to keep the one crusher going at this point.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, when are we
having another report? That seems to be a monthly? Weekly?
MS. COOK: Up to you.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Every Monday.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You have reports to our staff,
I guess.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Two weeks.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I guess what I'd like to see at
our next update is how we're coming with the supply chain, getting
the parts in to get that other crusher and densifier installed, and see
what our production, in fact, is. And if we can't get the parts for the
crusher that's broken, then let's have a look at renting one or bringing
in another crusher from somewhere else, even a little bit bigger size,
because the throat and the size of the crushers that are there are
constricted with regard to the size of the concrete that you can, in
fact, put in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That was kind of my question. If
money was no object -- and I realize it is -- but, I mean, is renting
another crusher just not available, like you say, like, the supply chain
problems for parts and whatnot? But, I mean, why don't we have
more equipment out there? It just seems like -- and I know when we
got some additional equipment, well, it really wasn't more because
another piece of equipment broke, so we had about the same amount,
and that's why we weren't seeing the numbers. You know, what's
the rental market like for equipment like this?
MR. GEHRING: It's kind of specialized, this equipment. But
to get a bigger crusher -- these crushers are already 100,000 pounds.
So then to get something much bigger, it has to come in
disassembled, you have to start putting it together, and there's some
other nuances with -- you know, you can't just throw -- just because
March 14, 2023
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the crusher's bigger, you can't always just put a bigger piece of
concrete in it, because you have to get that steel out, and that's where
the problem is, because there's only -- even when it crushes it down,
it doesn't crush the steel, and the steel will not pass through the
crusher without doing damage to the belt.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is there smaller pieces of the
equipment that, you know, you could be working on the fringes of
this lot? And, you know, it just seems like we're not burning the
candle from multiple ends. You know, it's sort of like, you know,
we're stuck on the crusher, a part breaks, you know, we have to -- you
know, the replacement part is at the -- on the International Space
Station, so we have to wait for that to come back to the county. And
I just feel like we're doing this in a very, very two-dimensional way.
Convince me that I'm wrong. I mean, you know --
MR. GEHRING: Well, part of it is, you know, we're cleaning
the site as we go. Some of that material's pressed into the ground,
and we don't want to -- we don't want to leave material behind that
we cover up when they spread out the crushed material.
So it's not a two-dimensional site. There's multiple aspects to it
of separating the good stuff, and then as we move we have to dig
down through the material that's there to make sure nothing's either
been buried and that it's not going to come up later.
And I think, you know, we've added, you know, a small hammer
into the project. We do minimal hammering if we can because those
peckers are very noisy, and that's where leaving the piles up around
there helps to reduce that noise. If we have to hammer something
that's too big for the crusher -- or the densifier to reach around, we
have to break it with a hammer first. So that's a noisy process, but
we've avoided any complaints with it.
So there's a lot of moving parts to it. And I think we're -- you
know, we're looking -- you know, concerning with the neighbors and
March 14, 2023
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controlling what we're doing, I think, that, you know, we're looking at
that time in much more than a two-dimensional way.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: I feel that getting the densifiers in --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry, go ahead.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: -- is really key to getting this thing really
moving, because if you can prepare the material ahead of the
crushers, get it -- more of it and more of it prepared, you then have a
much faster rate of production with the crushers. And if we can get
three densifiers going at once, I think we're going to see a drastic
increase --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What do you think's the timeline of
getting three going at once?
MR. HUBSCHMAN: We've got one now.
MR. GEHRING: We have one. We should have two going
here to get it installed today, maybe tomorrow with a little welding.
And then I'd say end of next week we should have hopefully three of
them going.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I mean, to Commissioner
McDaniel -- to his point, our next meeting is on the 28th. I really
would like to see this whole team back here, because it sounds like
there's a bunch of things that are going to happen between now and
our next meeting of the 28th.
And I don't want to jump ahead. I'm going to -- Commissioner
Kowal's lit up and has a question or some comments, but I would just
say that, you know, that wouldn't be unreasonable.
Sir?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I was going to ask you, initially when we started with the
crushing, we had the one crusher, and how many densifiers did you
start out with initially?
March 14, 2023
Page 50
MR. GEHRING: We started out with one, and then we tried to
implement a second one, but then we had some mechanical problems.
So we started with one, but we've had -- been back and forth between
one and two.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So we actually had some
time that there was two prepping the material --
MR. GEHRING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- before it went into the
crusher?
MR. GEHRING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I know you had brought a
second crusher in but then, of course, it went down from a
breakdown, correct?
MR. GEHRING: Yeah. It's been back and forth. One's run,
the other one. But we've been able to keep one running consistently
with this material. Some of it is due to -- the guys don't prep it good
enough, it's caused, you know, tears in the belt, and we've had to
order belts and things. It's not like we've just been waiting on one
part. But if it doesn't get prepared correctly, this -- that's -- you don't
run very long before you do damage.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So your opinion, though, if
it -- if we can get three densifiers going out there on these piles with
the larger material with the most rebar and steel in it, that you could
probably keep a steady flow in at least the one crusher up now and
then a second one running, that we should see some better numbers?
MR. GEHRING: Yeah. I think they'll be a little better. I
don't think they're going to be -- you're not going to see three or four
times. If, you know, we're doing 3,000 yards a week, you know, I'd
like to see us get closer to 4,000 just based on prepping the material a
little bit better.
And what we are crushing is consistent with our other sites that
March 14, 2023
Page 51
we crush at. We crush concrete at other sites, and we recycle it and
sell it. So we're pretty consistent with what we're doing at other
areas. We're not really off the schedule. It's -- you know,
depending on the material, it could be 500 to 800 yards a day on how
well the material's prepared.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I guess, in your words, when
you're uncovering some of these piles with the smaller, easier
crushing material and you're hitting these larger pieces, are you
surprised about the amount you're finding that was brought in that
you didn't realize was there maybe?
MR. GEHRING: Not so much the total amount as I'm
surprised at how much more material there is that has to be prepared,
that has to be prepped.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's what I mean. Like, you
were kind of --
MR. GEHRING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- not estimating as much as
you're hitting right now?
MR. GEHRING: Correct, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, my -- and my
suggestion is, it's a lot for the contractor and the owner and
everybody to come in here. I would suggest that we don't
necessarily -- we can have a report from our staff who -- because they
are reporting to our staff every single week, and unless
we -- certainly, if the Board has questions of the contractor or owner,
that's one thing, but I don't -- I don't need to drag them back in. I'm
certainly happy with Jaime giving us a report and relying on that
information.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: I'm available to come anytime you want
March 14, 2023
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me to.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Chris needs to stay
on that crusher.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What was your -- you know, when
we first brought you in here earlier in the year, you know, we had
thrown around some deadlines, and what we said is, you know, we
want an update every seven days, and so we went with that. But, I
mean, you know, we were -- you all, we all were tossing around
April, May, you know, that window. It seems like we are grossly off
of that timeline. And, I mean -- you know, I mean, some people
might say we moved, you know, millions of tons of -- or whatever
the exact amount was of debris, you know, for the hurricane pretty
quickly, and, you know, it was all hands on deck. I realize that's not
apples and -- it's apples and oranges compared to what we're doing
here.
I've got to just say, I strongly disagree with Commissioner
McDaniel. I don't get a sense here that you have all hands on deck,
that, you know, you're throwing every bit of energy, equipment,
people at that problem. I drive by that lot all the time. Yeah, I see
some smoke from one -- you know, one piece of equipment. I see
people milling around. I mean, I just feel like we don't have your
attention.
I mean, if you're -- I don't think you're a little mom and pop
company, and, you know, this is -- you know, this is all new to you.
Like you said, you're doing this on lots of other places. I mean, I
think the county has sent the signal that this is mission failure.
So whatever you're doing at all the other places, I don't think
you've been crushing rock there for years and years and had all of this
uprising by citizens and the commissioners and all of that. So I just
don't know why it's not a tight military operation and you're pulling
March 14, 2023
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equipment from every corner of the universe to get on this lot and
why we're just sitting here going, well, it was another 3,000 pounds.
I mean, maybe it's no big deal to, you know, folks that live
50 miles away from that lot, but the people around there, it's an
embarrassment. And I just -- I don't feel the sense of urgency. I
mean, I appreciate you answering the questions and educating me on,
you know, we have to send off to the UK for the one piece of
equipment that's going to, you know, increase the crushing by
20 percent or what have you.
But I think we've made it clear that this lot is total mission
failure, and I'm not impressed, you know, me personally. So tell me
why I'm wrong. But I think that citizens that live in that area, to
your point, well, we don't want to bring in trucks and pick up the
biggest pieces of concrete and try to burn the candle at both ends
because that's more noise and dust. Trust me, people that live there,
I think they'd put up with anything right now to make exponential
progress.
So I think -- I think the window of let's be nice and let's, you
know, put up a silt fence and dust off somebody's lanai if it gets a
little dusty, that ship sailed a long time ago. And I'm here speaking
as the commissioner for that district. You guys do not have a sense
of urgency. I saw a sense of urgency during Ian. That was called
debris removal.
And, yeah, a different piece of -- different pieces of equipment,
a totally different mission, but this is an emergent type of operation.
This is -- this is -- this is, you know, a gigantic fail that it just
continues to me to be more of, you know, hey, we'll give you another
update in two weeks.
So, I mean, I don't know if I'm the only one that feels that way,
but I do want you here every two weeks, because I think you need to
stand in front of us and convince us why moving 3,000 cubic yards in
March 14, 2023
Page 54
a week or two, or whatever the measurements go -- and if you look at
the graph, they're sort of sporadic. You know, I want you to come
before the -- you're not just speaking before us when you take that
podium. You're speaking before, you know, the entire Collier
County citizen taxpayer base.
And so, you know, I do want you here because I want to look
you in the eye and say, okay, so what did we do these two weeks?
Well, you know, we got a slow boat from the UK that came over with
a piece of equipment.
I mean, imagine if we would have attacked the hurricane this
way. I just don't see this lot being attacked like a gigantic natural
disaster, and it's not natural. It's something that you and your
predecessor created. I do not see a sense of urgency attacking, you
know, this lot, this debris so we can move forward.
MR. GEHRING: Well, the hurricane is totally different. We
did a lot of hurricane --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's not totally. A sense of
urgency's a sense of urgency.
MR. GEHRING: Correct. But, you know, we've moved on
this job. And it has been a sense of urgency. We didn't bring in
multiple crews from out of state. Hurricane you're moving different
types of debris. It's a lot of horticulture, vegetation. This is a
different process.
A lot of the material that moves from the hurricane has gone
somewhere that it's being processed the same way we're doing it now.
So no different from what we consider a sense of urgency to
comparing the hurricane to this is apples and oranges.
So I have to disagree that -- we've taken a lot of steps. We've
manned the job. We've not left the job one day or one minute.
Even if we've had a breakdown, we've been on it, and our people are
working. Whether you think they're mulling around, they're -- you
March 14, 2023
Page 55
know, they're filling the water truck. They're watering. They're
doing the work.
So, I mean, if you want to come out there and see the process
with me, I'll show it to you. I'll educate you. But telling me that
we're not doing it is not correct. That's just not -- you know, and
telling me that we've not got a sense of urgency or Earth Tech doesn't
think it's important or I personally don't think it's important or I'm
coming up here and not giving you the straight answers, I'm telling
you -- you know, we're giving reports. We're doing the work.
We're not -- and this is -- the type of work this is is not something
that just happens overnight. It's expensive. It takes its toll on
equipment. And, my people, you know, they're working six days a
week out there, and we've manned it up and done it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So the first thing I would say is, I
wouldn't pat yourself on the back that you're out there around the
clock. I mean, that's a minimum requirement. So, I mean, you're
not doing that out of the -- you're not a charity and doing that out of
the goodness of your heart.
On the flip side, you brought up a point that -- I'd love to hear
your answer to this. Why haven't you brought people from out of
town or from other places? It seems like we're working this with the
team that you have and trying to get the one extra part. So why isn't
it all hands on deck and people that crush rock all over the country,
you're not reaching out to them and trying to get, you know, the
maximum amount on that lot?
I'm not saying I know the answer to that. I want to hear an
answer that I say, okay, I hate the answer, but at least, you know, I
feel like you have one.
MR. GEHRING: We are the people that do the crushing. We
don't -- I don't have a list of people that are just standing by all -- that
move around all over the country to come in and crush. The people,
March 14, 2023
Page 56
like, just from the hurricane, those -- that material goes to an area and
it's deposited there, and it's processed there.
This is like an area that's deposited, and it's being processed
there. That's what we do in other sites. We would be the people
that we're calling, and we're working with as much equipment and as
much manpower as we can control within the confines of that project.
So at some point you have -- you can have so much equipment
on the job nobody's doing anything because you have to be able to
process and move through the project at once. It's not like I can just
put, you know, 100 machines in there and say, here, you all work in
the same spot. You know, you have to pick material up. It has to
be moved, you know, and that's -- you know, can it go a little faster?
We can get a little more production, but we haven't backed off on the
production.
And I'm not patting myself on the back. I'm letting you know
that we haven't -- you know, we haven't not tried, you know, for any
reason. We haven't made an excuse. And I feel like the production
we have is pretty consistent with what I've said from the beginning of
the project.
When I sat down in October and I said it would be at least to
May before we could have this done, nobody liked the answer and
then, almost three weeks, four weeks later, we got to start the job.
You know, so my May would push back a little, and there's more
material there that's harder to, you know, prepare than we thought it
would be in the beginning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you bring up a good
point. Now you're there. Now you're seeing what you're actually
running into. What's your estimate of completion now given the fact
that we don't have any more breakdowns and we have densifiers that
show up and work and so on and so forth? Plus or minus, what's
March 14, 2023
Page 57
your timeline?
MR. GEHRING: I would think we're pretty close to halfway
done right now with it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And how long have you been
on the job?
MR. GEHRING: November.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: November?
MR. HUBSCHMAN: November, a little bit November,
December, which was really the holidays.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. You didn't get a lot
done then.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: January, February.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then we had them
restricted on the time and hours and so on and forth. So, basically,
you've been on the job plus/minus three months, and you're saying --
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Plus/minus the breakdown time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand that. I'm
just -- in aggregate. Because we're -- guess what, there will be more
breakdowns. It's going to happen.
MR. GEHRING: It's the type of work that it is.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And as I said, when
you have that many moving parts, you're going to have breakdowns.
And I guess my -- none of us -- and I'm not offering any excuses for
what's transpired prior to Chris coming to the site, but we have to
make an executive decision with regard to how much allotment or
space we offer them.
In my personal opinion, again, I agree with Mr. Gehring's
comments that if we start throwing that stuff into big dumpsters, our
production goes down. Again, I know about the volume issue when
you throw a big piece of concrete into a dumpster in relationship to
crushed material, and the timeline. And is the timeline -- is the
March 14, 2023
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timeline May? No, it's not going to be May. Is it July? Maybe.
That's three months from now if, in fact, they've been on for three
months. And what are the -- what are the plus/minuses with regard
to that?
I still don't think -- unless you have specific questions for the
contractor, if you want to speak to Mr. Hubschman, he's there on site.
He's spraying the bushes himself and so on and so forth, so...
MR. HUBSCHMAN: If I could say this: As we get further
along -- as Chris said, we're about halfway done. As we get further
along, we will be able to spread those piles, which will make this site
more -- look better for the people that are complaining, you know,
and take that issue off the table.
We just have to get to a certain point where then we can start
moving -- then we can start spreading the material and getting
it -- you know, knock it down to a height that -- you know, that is
acceptable.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well -- and it's not a matter of just
the aesthetics. It's also making progress on there. And when you're
hearing that we're at the halfway point, you know, I mean, most
people feel like the halfway point was a year ago. But I know we
don't have a time machine, but, you know...
MR. HUBSCHMAN: We were not able to crush a year ago.
We were shut down.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, Jaime, did you have
anything else you wanted to add?
MS. COOK: Just two quick points. Their state permit through
the Water Management District is for construction and grading, so it
does allow all of these activities.
The ERPs are for periods of five years. So according to their
ERP, they have until 2027 to complete this work.
The second part of what I wanted to bring up was,
March 14, 2023
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Commissioner McDaniel, you were talking about going past May 1st.
The way the approval letter was written, it would require Board
approval to allow them to go past May 1st.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm not suggesting that
we do that now by any stretch. I just -- I just want us to be holding
them accountable. I want that to be -- I want that to be said, and that
we make a decision based upon future actions, production,
productivity, and what your estimates for completion, in fact, are, and
then we make that decision at a later date. We can -- we have
until -- we have until our second meeting in April to finally make that
decision. So I don't think it -- I don't think it needs to be discussed
now about extending it by any stretch, but...
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Like I said, we're available to come in
whenever you want -- reports whenever you want to hear about what
we're doing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what I want to say is, you
know, that -- I wanted to just make a comment to something you said.
And it may be, you know, we're just here spitballing and talking out
loud. But when you make the comment and say, you know, well, we
could speed up, you know, a little bit more in a couple of areas, and
you're being, you know, gracious, you know, to say that, I actually
don't want to hear that. I want to hear you say, we are operating at
110 percent. We are going full speed. I couldn't do -- I couldn't
squeeze one more rock out of this piece of equipment, and that's how
we've been operating since day one.
So you might have just sort of said that off the top of your head,
but I just want you to appreciate how irate that makes me as the
commissioner for that district representing all of the people that live
there. I want you to come to this podium every two weeks telling
me, we are -- we are on that job the second that the clock starts, and
we are off that job 30 seconds, you know, when we can't crush rock.
March 14, 2023
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We've done everything humanly possible. I could not squeeze one
more bit of productivity out of what we are doing.
So -- and I know you'll probably correct the record and go, well,
that's actually true, but, you know, that's the expectation of this
county and the leadership of this board is that you are -- you are
operating at max potential doing everything humanly possible to get
this job finished.
MR. GEHRING: Well, I know what to say next time.
But I feel like -- you know, I'm not going to tell you something
that's not untrue [sic]. So no matter how good we do, there's
probably always something -- if you're not there 100 percent of the
time, you know, the guys, you know, taking time eating lunch,
whatever, there may be ways to improve a little bit. But, you know,
we're doing as much or more than I feel like any other contractor
could do at this point so -- and we're going to improve on that, and
we're going to get better with a couple more machines to help prepare
the material.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So here's what I would
propose to my colleagues here is we'll obviously get an update from
Ms. Cook in two weeks on the 28th. But we also get a seven-day
report. So seven days from now, based on your report and did the
equipment come in and the extra pieces that, you know, came from
Europe or wherever we have to steal them, that will determine if me
as the commissioner to that district want to have you back here on the
28th for Q&A or just, you know, more of this healthy discussion.
But, you know, leave here knowing that we are looking for the
highest level sense of urgency. And, you know, I just personally
don't feel like I've heard it, that I've seen it. I don't think you have to
be an expert on how to crush rock to at least understand the basics of
it. And, you know, I think we've passed that point of sort of our -- of
being patient.
March 14, 2023
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So I don't know. Anybody got anything else to -- oh,
Commissioner Kowal, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just want to say that, you know, Commissioner LoCastro, this
sits right in his district, but I also -- Countryside is in my district,
which is the northwest corner of that intersection. So we're right on
the border.
And I went to their HOA meeting last Thursday, and I was there,
and I spoke to those citizens there. And they are highly concerned
also, and they all know that May 1st date that you quoted that you
would have it done. They're very familiar with that date, May 1.
So that's not our words. Those are your words.
So completion doesn't always mean you completed your rock
crushing. Completion means you're not there anymore, and it's
done, and you're grading, and you're done.
So -- and I can guarantee I could get two high lifts in there and a
line of dump trucks, and I could move material out of there quicker
than you can crush. So I'm not going to sit here and tell me excuses
that you don't get as much or it doesn't take as -- it takes longer to
move the material off the site, because that's not true. We could run
six days a week, eight hours a day high lifts and get this stuff off the
property.
So I'm just letting you know that we're going to have a decision
to make here coming up. And I feel the same way Commissioner
LoCastro feels; that I want to see something, and I want to hear some
more positivity out of you guys saying, you know, we're getting
there, we're getting there, because I have to sell it back to these other
communities that May 1st may not work, and they know that date.
MR. GEHRING: Is there a specific -- is there a specific
complaint or something specific that the people -- I know they just
don't like --
March 14, 2023
Page 62
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's there.
MR. GEHRING: It's there.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's there. It's been there for a
long time. They're sick of driving by it. They're sick of seeing the
dust. You know, it's just -- they deserve that. They deserve to see
some progress.
MR. GEHRING: I'm just asking that in case --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: From the eyes of the citizens,
they don't really see it, and then I have to answer to that.
MR. GEHRING: And the only reason I'm asking is because if
there was something specific that we could address, we would, but I
don't have anything that -- you know, a specific, you know,
complaint other than it's there and we're trying to get through it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Once again, I'm not going to say
this clearer than I can.
MR. GEHRING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know what you've got to
do. You've got to -- your objective is to crush the rock, because
that's where you make your profit. I get that, okay. But the
problem is, it's -- the specifics to this is that it's there. It's been there
for years. And I think they're just tired of it. Unless you've got a
magic wand and you can make it disappear today, then I'll tell them
that will happen. But I understand we've all got to work together on
this, but it's your date we're talking about, May 1st. So let's --
MR. HUBSCHMAN: If I could just say Mr. Cadenhead
brought in this material in 2021, and he was planning on crushing it.
He did crush some of it, and then we were shut down by South
Florida and you -- your county staff.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: We cannot change what
happened in the past. Nothing here is going to change that. You
stood in front of this board.
March 14, 2023
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MR. HUBSCHMAN: I know. But for a year --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You gave the date as May 1st.
No one else. No one else.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Well, yeah. But for a year --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So we're just going --
MR. HUBSCHMAN: But for a year we were not able to do
anything with this pile.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Once again, this was after you
were already told you can start again. You gave the date May 1st.
You didn't give that when you weren't crushing. That was when
you -- in November -- when you came in November and you knew
you were going to start again, you gave that date. That was not a
date that was set by the other gentleman that brought the stuff in and
tried to crush.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: That date was given to me by my
contractor, and --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Well, I understand that,
sir. I'm not arguing about that. I'm just saying -- and I'm not saying
May 1st is in concrete either, but I just want to see some progress.
That's it. That's all.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: And as far as, like, throwing more
money at the project, I can't throw more money at it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll just sum this up by saying, the
problem is -- like you said, what's the complaint; it's an eyesore.
That's not the county dump. It's in the center of town. And so I
agree with Commissioner Kowal; you can't undo what was done, you
know, way back when. And I know that this is something that
you've inherited. You had to stop for a certain amount of time
March 14, 2023
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because of some permitting and different issues that -- some of which
we couldn't control. There's other outside parties.
But the bottom line is, it's a huge eyesore in a very visible part
of town. And I don't need to get 10,000 emails a day. If nobody
sends me an email in the next seven days, I'll still be upset about it
because I represent the citizens there, and I think they've been
extremely patient.
And if every citizen that lives within a one-mile radius was in
this room right now, they wouldn't feel that there's been a sense of
urgency, even by the county. I mean, I even fault us. I mean, you
know, I'm going to meet with our county staff here and see if we've
done everything humanly possible to squeeze every ounce out of the
effort on that lot.
I thought we were doing that earlier in the year when we
said -- we gave you an extra day, we gave extra hours. We heard
this extra equipment was coming, maybe even extra people. But
then every seven days I got a report. It was up. It was down. It
was up. It was down. You know, I was hoping to see a more
consistent rise in the amount of rock that was being crushed, and we
never saw that.
To Commissioner McDaniel's point, you're dealing with
equipment. It breaks. It this, it that. But I guess, you know, we
were hoping for more consistency, and we just continue to march
towards, like Commissioner Kowal says, the 1 May date that seems
to now look, like, unrealistic.
And I also agree with -- or Commissioner Kowal agrees with
me, I think a fleet of trucks running 24/7, or as much as we could for
six days, seven days, two weeks, would be just fine with the local
community if it meant that, you know, this lot would be complete
sooner than later.
And that might not be evident. It might be loud. It might be
March 14, 2023
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dusty, but it will bring -- something like that needs to bring this
project to finality, not just continuing to say, you know, we're doing
the best we can, and we're sitting here in October still talking about it,
which, you know, I think if we continue to kick the can, we'll still be
doing.
But anybody got any questions? This was just an update, so
there's nothing to vote on, I don't believe, or is there?
MS. PATTERSON: It is to accept an update.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: What I want to say is that we're going
out of here with a renewed sense of urgency.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's what we want to hear.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Look forward to seeing the results
over the next seven to 14 days. Thank you.
MS. COOK: And, Commissioner, for the record, I do want to
put out there that Code Enforcement investigators as well as the
Development Review inspections staff have been out on site every
day. We have spent an enormous amount of staff time trying to
ensure that work is being done and moving forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I love that, but then I also
don't love it because, you know, we're dedicating people and
resources specifically, you know, full time to this particular project,
and there's other business of the county. So this has become a
full-time job for us. I want to make sure it's a full-time job for you.
And, you know, it just doesn't -- it doesn't seem like we're
making the kind of progress that I think we were hoping for in
January when we were really, you know, talking about this, and even
last year.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you brought up a point,
March 14, 2023
Page 66
and I just want to have this discussion. It was ironic that you said
that the May 1st date wasn't in concrete, because it's in a lot of
concrete with a lot of steel.
The permit that allows them to, in fact, do their work -- and I
know Mr. Gehring -- Mr. Hubschman utilized this May 1st date. Do
we have latitude on that May -- I know that it has to be a Board
decision for that May 1st date, but from an operational
standpoint -- and let's just hypothetically say we don't let them go
past the May 1st date. What happens?
MS. COOK: At that point we would need to work with the
County Attorney's Office as well as Code Enforcement to begin
another code case.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so then there's another
30 days of notice, 45 days of response, and we're two months past
that with -- if everybody plays by the rules that I know of,
plus/minus.
MS. COOK: Unless we took it to an emergency hearing within
10 days.
MR. KLATZKOW: First meeting of May you'll make a
decision what you want to do. You can extend the time or --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, we'll do that in the
second meeting in April. I think that's going to happen in advance of
the May 1st date. But I'm just -- I'm wanting to know procedurally
within their bounds of the permit -- and, again, I'm not arguing with
you, either of you. I don't disagree with either of you with regard to
the urgency here. It's just we have to rationally approach this with
the indiscretions that transpired with the previous contractor or the
developer -- or owner's rights within the bounds of the permit that
they have. That's the -- that's the answer -- or the question that I
have for you is to -- if we were to not extend the current operation
and load it up with dump trucks and excavators in order to haul the
March 14, 2023
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material away, is that within our purview, and is that within the
bounds of their permit?
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioner. For the record,
I'm Jamie French, department head for Growth Management and
Community Development.
Commissioner, this would be considered a repeat violation.
Mr. Hubschman and his counsel had appeared and gave -- have given
you the same reasons as to the reason why they couldn't get their
work done.
So at the end of the day, we would treat it as a repetitive
violation. We'd take it to trial within 10 days is what our suggestion
would be with a -- and if we needed to, we would ask the OSM for
discretion as far as how to move forward.
I would tell you that this is a condition of the permit. It's
identified within the permit as May 1st because it is the date that the
contractor asked for based on an 8:00 to 5:00 Monday through Friday
schedule. That was their -- because we asked for an earlier time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And we increased the time above
and beyond that, correct?
MR. FRENCH: We increased their operating to go to the full
LDC allowances, which is Monday through Saturday from 6:30 until
7:00 p.m. And your testimony -- the testimony that was provided by
the contractor -- and out of all due respect, because it is -- they've got
a great contractor. We've worked with them for many years, and we
look forward to years to come. Construction's never a straight line,
but this was his estimation based off of his site evaluation.
So, again, Commissioners, they asked for May 1st. We put it as
a stipulation within their Site Development Plan. Typically a Site
Development Plan has two years. This one had a stipulation. They
knew this going in. They went to work the day after. They were
cleared to go to work the day after the Board meeting.
March 14, 2023
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So I don't know really what the holdup is. And they could have
worked on Christmas Eve. But at the end of the day, we gave them
full allowances to work forward with the LDC. And we understand
that equipment breaks down. But we have -- as Ms. Cook has said,
we spend a lot of time that takes us away from our regular work on
Mr. Hubschman's site.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anything further?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Ms. Patterson.
MS. PATTERSON: Time for a court reporter break.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Yep. So we accept the
report. Thanks for the update, and we'll look for your update in
seven days, and yours as well.
MR. HUBSCHMAN: Thank you, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's take a break. What
do you think, come back at -- is 11:00 too soon? 11:05.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: 11:00 is fine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Say 11:00.
(A brief recess was had from 10:48 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.)
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, you have a live mic.
Item #10B
BOARD DISCUSS CHANGES TO THE CURRENT PROCESS IN
APPLYING FOR AND RECEIVING A REDUCTION IN CODE
LIENS - DISCUSSED
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I think we're moving on to
10B, which was something I had added to the agenda. This has to
do with liens and fines. I think I -- you know, I spoke to my fellow
commissioners about this a couple times, and been working closely
March 14, 2023
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with Mr. Klatzkow.
So let me just sort of set the table a little bit. And this is a
discussion. I'm not looking to change -- we have a good ordinance,
but as Mr. Klatzkow will attest -- and in the executive summary he
put together, I believe we've gotten a little loose on enforcement.
And it's not trying to break the backs of a citizen who maybe didn't
mow their lawn because they were sick and they were in the hospital.
That's not what we're trying to chase. But it's to make sure what
we're actually following the details in our -- in our ordinance and,
more specifically, to tell the Code Enforcement Board and, really, our
entire county staff what our expectation is.
What I think our expectation isn't is when we have a group of
people, a company, a private citizen, whatever it is, that has -- that
has been getting specific fines that have mounted up over time or
specific liens against their property, and they sell the property, and
then the new buyer gets the property at a discount, but then they
come back to the county and, you know, we address the fine. The
reality is more often than not, the staff, the team, the board that we
have entrusted to, you know, support this ordinance, in my
opinion -- and I've watched it happen, and I'm told by meeting with
the county staff that we sort of have gotten a little more generous in
excusing fines and providing a lot more latitude when it comes to
liens. And I just think our going-in position should be, if somebody
owes the county, they don't owe the county; they own the taxpayer,
say, a hundred thousand dollars in fines. The going-in position by
our Code Enforcement Board or our county staff or all of the above
shouldn't be, well, they finally took care of it, so go from a hundred
thousand to zero.
And I've talked to several people on the board, and I think that
because we've turned over some of the folks on the board, even
possibly, that this is a time to blow the dust off the ordinance, be
March 14, 2023
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more specific in what our direction is, which is, hey, the going-in
position is full payment, unless, however, but, comma, some unique,
you know, extenuating circumstance. But at times there's been no
extenuating circumstances other than just time's gone by, the fines
piled up, then they finally built the wall, and instead of collecting
$100,000, the motion was made to make it $1,000 or 1,500.
And Mr. Klatzkow's done some homework digging in here to
see what totals, when it comes to fines and liens and things, have
accumulated over time and how much we actually collected. And
there are probably -- there aren't probably. There are definitely
extenuating circumstances in lots of these cases here. But in some
cases there aren't.
So, you know, on his recommendation -- and I fully support it
and hope you do as well -- we want to put together -- am I saying it
correct -- we want to make a resolution that would get attached to the
ordinance that would just have more specificity in it so we'd be
giving very specific direction to the staff and the folks on the Code
Enforcement Board that our going-in position is, don't turn into Santa
Claus immediately if you think there's not extenuating circumstances.
I mean, so part of the county sending a strong signal to violators
is, we're watching; if you violate, we are -- you know, the fine means
something. We're not going to, you know, excuse everything just
based on your request, which I believe does happen more frequently
than any of us maybe expect that it happens or want it to happen.
And this is real money. You know, we're talking about all kinds of
things here. How are we going to solve red tide? How are we
going to do this? How are we going to do that?
When money comes back to the county, it's money that then we
get to utilize for a lot of things but also, too, it's a penalty for not
following the law. If you've broken the law and you don't have
extenuating circumstances, then you get fined for it. If you buy a
March 14, 2023
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piece of property and it has $2 million worth of liens on it, and you
got that property at a bargain because you assumed the expensive
liens, a month later you shouldn't be able to come into the county and
go, hi, I'm a new owner and, you know, I bought at a discount but,
you know, the liens weren't really me. It was somebody else, kind of
like what we were talking about with the rock crushing lot, and then
more often than not our policy seems to be, in the county, less
enforcement and sort of more leniency.
And I was looking -- you know, meeting with Mr. Klatzkow
multiple times to figure out how we could reemphasize that that isn't
our going-in policy, because I don't believe that that's what the
ordinance -- I mean, fines mean something. And so you might be
able to talk yourself out of a speeding ticket once in a while, but the
going-in position from the Sheriff or the police officer when they
walk up to your car isn't, well, I'm going to let this person off. You
know, they talk to you, they see what the issue might be and, yeah,
maybe you do get lucky, but more often than not, I believe that fines
get imposed and fines get collected.
And I would just like to see if we could put more verbiage into
something of a resolution that would send that signal to our county
staff and those on the Code Enforcement Board that our going-in
position is, don't default immediately to a gigantic step of leniency,
because you're basically throwing that money away that the county is
owed and due and that the taxpayers are due.
And also, too, you're excusing a breaking of the law, quite
possibly in too much of a way. And so that was my reason for
bringing this up here, because I just think we have a lot of money
that's leaking out the back door. I also think we have a lot of
violators who make fools of the county by saying, well, I went in and
I pled my case, and they took my $250,000 fine and they made it
$8,000, and we all shook hands and hugged each other. And I just
March 14, 2023
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don't think that that's the expectation of why we have the ordinance,
why we have fines, why we have liens.
Before I go to the commissioners, Mr. Klatzkow, let me go to
you, and if you can sort of summarize what we've talked about, what
your recommendation is, maybe, you know, summarize the document
that I hope all commissioners got a chance to see. And it was really
just a draft to get the conversation started, but, sir, let me give you the
floor.
MR. KLATZKOW: All right. Thank you.
First off, code liens, by statute, are owned by the Board, which
is why we always come to you for the waiver of it.
When I first started here, I was assigned to Code Enforcement
before I became County Attorney, and we pursued liens vigorously.
That was the Board's policy. And I think you'll -- if you went back
you'd find we had far less liens because people knew that we were
going to go after them if they didn't get into compliance quickly and
if they didn't pay what they owed us.
Then the Great Recession hit, and we were ground zero; ground
zero on foreclosures. And we had homes that were abandoned by
the hundreds. And they started getting into disrepair, and the
Board -- in order to help the banks take over the properties and to run
[sic] to the properties -- became very lenient as far as the liens went.
We just wanted to get compliance, and once we got into compliance
at that point in time, we would take our administrative costs, and that
would be the end of it, and it was a brilliant policy for that time.
We're not in that time now, and whatever the Board's policy is,
of course, Mr. French and I will enforce. But at this point in time
the conversations that I've had with the Chair is that perhaps it's time
to relook at that policy to see if we want to go back to being more of
a firm-but-fair type of policy rather than just get it done and we'll
waive whatever liens there are.
March 14, 2023
Page 73
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I have not reviewed
what you brought forward this morning. So, number one, I
suggested we do that, bring it forward in a formal format, have a
hearing on it so everybody can have participation.
It bodes, to me, a larger question similar to what the County
Attorney suggested, and that's, you know, our -- we have a new
director of code coming in line. We all know that. We're not a little
less than 100,000 population. We have a Code Enforcement that has
had a direction from the Board of being more reactive than proactive
and a balance at some -- you know, really, you can't be called to go to
an infraction and drive by 10 other infractions and not see them.
And so we have to -- some adjustments with the ordinance are past
due.
So I'd suggest you bring forward the resolution, your
suggestions as to what we do, and then we have a discussion on how
we can better direct our code enforcement officers to be a little more
proactive at the same time without being -- without being
obstructionists at the same -- you know, it's a -- it's certainly a fine
line, but I know for -- I know for a fact we have rampant infractions
transpiring in Golden Gate Estates. It's become popular -- I probably
have reported at least 15 infractions this year with people putting
campers at their house to rent, and then advertising them in Golden
Gate Estates to rent. Sometimes five and six units behind their
house.
And we can't send code out to check on a known violation and
then have them drive by five others that are right there on the way
and not have somebody at least stop and knock on their door and say,
you know you're not allowed to be doing that. So I welcome you
bringing forward a resolution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
And I agree that the posture needs to change. Just some
thoughts. I did read your stuff, and I liked -- I liked quite a bit of it.
But we -- I think we do need fines as incentives to obey, but those
fines need to be realistic, and -- instead of runaway. You know, an
$800,000 fine, you know, because you had 1,200 bucks a day or
whatever is just like -- that's just not real.
I don't want to -- I don't want to turn the county into a bunch of
code Nazis, you know, where we're running around looking for
money to get from our constituents, so there is a balance there.
And are we talking about a policy change or just a refocus of the
existing policy? That would be a question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It was more of a refocus. Like I
said at the start, we have an ordinance, but as Mr. Kowal -- or as
Mr. Klatzkow had said, I think with the change in maybe
commissioners and also the change in the times, we've sort of
gravitated, I believe, to much more leniency.
This isn't about changing the ordinance and all of a sudden
ruling with a sledge hammer. I mean, the example that
Commissioner McDaniel brought up is a different example. Like
you say, hey, we give somebody a fine, but we drive by five others.
But to go back to the person that got a fine, the person that got the
fine needs to also pay it.
And so, you know, to your point, if somebody's getting a fine
$1,200 a day and, you know, they just have -- they let it go for an
exorbitant amount of time and it's $800,000, you know, to your point,
it's not real. I don't disagree with you, but the reality is, it actually is
real. We've got so many of those examples. And then the person
comes in, and in many cases they didn't even pay $1,200. They
came in and said, you know, it wasn't me, and then I bought the
property, and then it was somebody else and, you know, we were
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working with the county, and permitting sort of dropped the ball and
then, you know, your guy retired and then, you know, the 1,200 just
unfairly and unrealistically just kept mounting, but we knew we were
eventually in two years going to have a meeting here at the county,
and you guys would just excuse it.
And Mr. Klatzkow can give many examples where we went
from a very high fine, which was possibly unrealistic, but the reality
is, why did we let it mount up $1,200 a day for -- you know, what did
we do at the two-month point, the four-month point, the six-month
point? And so, you know, I think we're talking about multiple things
that we either want a resolution, if -- I mean, in my meetings with
County Attorney, it seems to -- has me convinced that that's the best
way to put something on top of the ordinance that just re-intensifies
this Board's direction when it comes to liens and fines, and the
expectation to collect in full is our going-in position, and then
with -- and he had some verbiage in here which, like I say, we'll
continue to work on this and then bring something back. But I
wanted to whet your appetite a bit on the topic. And it sounds like
everybody -- you know, everyone seems to be leaning towards this
has merit.
COMMISSIONER HALL: There were some things -- there
was some verbiage in there about having caps, you know, at a certain
amount of money and doubling that for repeat offenders, which I like
that, but then there was also some verbiage in there that we could,
you know, release those things or let them go at a 50 percent value.
I would like to see it just say up to 50 percent, because I would like
that to be our discretion instead of just an automatic thing so the
people out there know that.
And then settling liens versus actual foreclosure. You know,
some of these non-homestead properties that are just completely
neglected, I think that the county -- there's value in the county
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foreclosing and getting full value for the property if somebody's
going to elect and choose to let that go.
If I get foreclosed on from the bank, I have elected and chosen
not to pay the mortgage, and the consequences are foreclosure. The
same way consequences on the liens on a non-homestead property are
foreclosure. And I think if people know that, then they're going to
be highly incentivized to pay their liens and not to accrue them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I guess my question's for the County Attorney. When these
come before the Board -- like, I think we had one two meetings ago, a
particular case, where we heard it, and he had bought a piece of
property at a discounted price. How many of these actually had
already went through the due process and already been before the
Special Magistrate and either -- and maybe they're just not satisfied
with what came out of that process and now they're coming to us as,
like, a last-ditch effort.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, I'll let Jamie answer that, because
he's part of the process, but I think the answer is all of them.
MR. FRENCH: Jamie French, for the record again. Yes, sir,
all of them.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So they've had their due
process. They had their time in court. They've been before the
magistrate, and they basically --
MR. KLATZKOW: The way this generally works is you get
violations. Staff gives them every chance in the world to cure it.
They don't cure it. Eventually we'll take them to the Code
Enforcement Board or the Special Magistrate. They will give them
multiple opportunities to cure it and, you know, finally get to a point
where they still don't do it. So that's the point in time where they
actually start getting fined. People get multiple opportunities to do
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the right thing before we have to hunker down with a hammer.
Multiple.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So this is no surprise for a lot of
these people. And it's no surprise they have 200-, $300,000 worth of
fines --
MR. KLATZKOW: No. And I will tell you that the vast
majority of people come into compliance relatively quick. It's just a
handful of people who are recalcitrant and, you know, snub their nose
at the county, and this is what we have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The one thing I want to clarify is a
lot of these don't come before us. When things go before the Code
Enforcement Board and they've, you know, accumulated $200,000
worth of fines, they -- the person stands at that podium, people that
we've nominated on the Code Enforcement Board sit up here, and
that person could make a statement and just say, you know, we
finally built the wall, we finally cut down the trees. The 200,000
was accumulated over a year and a half, so it's unrealistic.
Everything's been brought into code, and I'm also in a very, you
know, difficult money situation, and -- okay, that might be an
extenuating circumstance. Sometimes it isn't. It's a company that is
very solid. But they make a suggestion to cut the fine dramatically
or even have it go away.
And I think because we've got the folks on the Code
Enforcement Board that we've appointed that have, maybe over time,
due to multiple reasons, have sort of slid into a much more lenient
approach. I mean, I've watched multiple Code Enforcement Board
proceedings so that I could get a feel for what's decided, and they're
making a final decision, but it's based on supporting an ordinance that
we have enacted. So they're following their due diligence, but it's
supporting what -- the direction that we have given.
And my stance is, I think we need renewed direction to the Code
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Enforcement Board, to our county staff, and all the folks that are
involved in liens and fines, that this current group of commissioners
wants to blow the dust off of the current ordinance and make sure
that our expectation is -- you know, full compliance is a minimum
expectation but also full payment in most cases is our going-in
position. And giving somebody a 9,000 percent discount isn't
something that should be decided in 30 seconds.
And I can tell you, some of the Code Enforcement Boards that I
watch, I was flabbergasted how we let six figures go out the door
with a 15-second discussion between -- and I'm not saying this to
throw spears at the Code Enforcement Board. What I want to do is
put something together that we feel represents us in a fresh and
directive way to make it crystal clear to Code Enforcement what our
expectations are when it comes to enforcing, you know, the
ordinance.
So if you have no -- you know, if there's no other comments
than what I'm -- Commissioner McDaniel, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And Commissioner Hall's
comment with regard to striking a balance as to what's a realistic fine
but at the same time holding people accountable, you made -- I mean,
we passed one where the young fellow bought a piece of property,
bought it at a discount, didn't go through the normal processes of a
title search, didn't know that he had a lien. That was his fault. That
wasn't -- and we ate that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It was. It was his fault, and we ate
it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was. And so, you know, I
voted to allow him out of it, but at the same token, maybe we need to
step up our efforts. As you said, where are we at on Month 1, Month
2, Month 3, Month 12, Month 24, and move a little harder in advance
of a circumstance like that.
March 14, 2023
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So I think bringing forward the resolution, dusting off the
ordinance, having a discussion with our new director of code as to
how we -- how we better manage that is a proper path.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll continue to work with
staff. And when I feel like we maybe have something that's more
ready for prime time -- but you gave me the sense that I wanted,
which was to see if we were all paddling in a similar direction; that
it's not being ogres. It's not we're trying to, you know, swing a
sledgehammer. But, you know, folks that are fined, that is a penalty
for breaking the law, and our position isn't, well, thanks for crushing
the rock. We really appreciate it. The fine means something.
And, working with Mr. Klatzkow, I think, to your point,
Commissioner McDaniel, we could dust off the code a bit and, as a
minimum, we can at least put together a resolution that sends a
readvertised signal to our Code Enforcement Board, mostly, as to
what our expectation is to the ordinance.
So -- okay. I don't think we need to -- do we need to vote on
anything? It was more a discussion item, but...
MS. PATTERSON: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I'll take that as a homework
assignment. Appreciate the input, and I'll work with Mr. Klatzkow.
And, you know, I encourage any of you to reach out to him if you
have a specific part. And you-all did get a copy of this executive
summary, albeit it was probably yesterday or the day before, so
maybe just take a look at it. I think it came from Ms. Patterson.
This is just a draft, but there's some good verbiage in here that doesn't
allow us to just go from, you know, Mach 10 to a dead stop when it
comes to, you know, collecting, you know, a fine or the way that we
articulate our enforcement of liens. It's more of a graduated
approach, and there's also very specific language in there which we
will continue to refine that says, you know, our expectation is -- you
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know, it's -- there's exceptions, but they're not the rule, that sort of
thing, so -- okay.
Anything to add, Ms. Patterson?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. So we can
move on to --
MS. PATTERSON: Yep, Items 11B and 11C --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: -- are both tourism items. I'll read them
in, and Mr. Beirnes will be here to present.
11A11B is a recommendation to award Request for Proposal
22-7979, Tourism International Representation, UK and Ireland
Market, to OMMAC, Limited, authorize the Chairman to execute the
agreement for a term of three years with two one-year
renewals/options, and make a finding that this action promotes
tourism.
Item 11C, similarly, is a recommendation to award Request for
Proposal 22-7980, Tourism International Representation, Germany
Market -- to DiaMonde e.K., authorize the Chairman to execute the
agreement, and make a finding that this action promotes tourism.
Mr. Paul Beirnes, your tourism director, is here to present.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before we just go into
your -- Commissioner Saunders, are you still on the line? I didn't
want to put him on the spot or anything, but...
MR. MILLER: I see him there, Commissioner, but he is muted
at this point. There he is.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, I am. I've enjoyed all
the conversation so far, and I've got no issues on this end.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I just wanted to reach out
to you and just make sure we weren't missing maybe you trying to
chime in or we didn't see that your hand was raised. So I appreciate
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it. Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. BEIRNES: Good morning. For the record, Paul Beirnes,
director of Tourism for Collier County.
Thank you very much, Commissioners, for allowing me the
opportunity to provide a little bit of informational insight, because it's
kind of important to share, if I may, some of the -- some of the
background and insight for the two items, 11B and 11C.
The destination's visitation is really driven by a number of
pillars, if you will; leisure, domestic visitors, meetings and
conventions, and then the last pillar is actually international
visitation. International segment accounts for about 20 percent,
historically, of our annual visitation. While 20 percent does not
sound like a monumental piece of the pie, the visitors that come
internationally, they do stay longer, they do spend more when they
are in market, so they have a really significant impact.
In fact, in 2019, which we often say was kind of the last normal
year, if you will, it was as high as 23.8 percent of visitation coming
from international. In 2019, the European visitation amounted for
about 309,000 of those visitors of the 1.6 million that come annually.
In 2019, that amount, based on information used or acquired through
our research data services at the time and using Oxford economics,
amounted to about $260 million of economic impact.
In the months that followed, the arrival of COVID, we all know
that the subsequent closure of the international borders, that segment
immediately dried up. It dried up to completely zero, and that was a
very painful period. That void continued through not only 2020 but
all the way through November of 2021 when the international borders
finally reopened.
Despite the borders being reopened in 2022 [sic], the domestic
pent-up demand really did drive the rates up. It secured a lot of the
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occupancy. So the international market was kind of held at bay for a
little while.
The international segment has been relatively slow to return to
pre-pandemic levels. We're aggressively fighting to regain market
share, and part of that fight is also overcoming some of the
competitive nature in other destinations that Europeans are going to.
During 2022, the destination recognized 54,000 visitors from the
European region. Certainly way off from 309,000 visitors but, yet,
in just the last two months -- so January, February alone -- this is
fresh off the press -- we've already recognized 31 [sic] visitors in just
the last two months. So we're certainly gaining that market share.
Diversification is really critical, especially when it comes to
looking at ways of driving shoulder season; summer, fall, spring
versus having these peaks and valleys. And, certainly, the European
market visits significantly during that summer window.
The executive summary items are particularly for the overseas
representation, and not only do they reach consumers, but there's a
significant amount of their activity, which is actually building those
relationships with airlines, travel agents, tour operators, those that are
really out on the streets and hearing what's being desired by the
visitors and making sure they are not going to destinations such as
Portugal and so on.
Due to the geographic compression of Europe, most of the
visitors arrive through ports of Germany and through the UK. We
all know that if you, you know, put the bundle -- or the circle around
Europe, it amounts to only a couple of our states, if you will. In fact,
the market that is -- or the representation out of Germany not only
looks after and targets Germany, but all of Benelux. So Belgium,
Netherlands, Luxembourg. The UK market is UK, Ireland, and
we're actually encouraging them to focus their attention on their
messaging into France as well because there are so many of the
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opportunities just across border.
So, you know, as we have in front of us, we've got the
representation for not only the UK and Germany in front of us, we
started the process about a year ago working through procurement to
secure representation that we feel aligns with what our needs are in
those markets and to be able to diversify and really drive hard our
return to pre-pandemic levels.
So 11B and 11 -- 11B is recommending the UK award of
OMMAC and 11C recommends those of German for DiaMonde.
I will say, as I mentioned, the relationship and the activity is
very much joined at the hip. We have multiple meetings every
single week, including a stand-up meeting with our entire team every
single Monday morning at 10:00 a.m. We talk about what our
strategies are, what's happening, the unique dynamics that are
happening in the market.
These representatives not only reach out to consumers, they do it
through PR, through promotions, through advertising, which is within
the dollars that are within the executive summary. Collateral
distribution, they are our ears in the market. They provide us the
market insight of things that are happening literally just the night
before or the day before as well.
They're engaged with conversations with everybody from
Eurowings, Lufthansa, British Airways, British Airways Vacations,
and the travel trade face to face, and it allows us not to be spending or
investing the time always to be traveling internationally. These
people are considered and I truly feel like they are extensions of our
direct staff.
They provide a very, very detailed monthly report which is
included every single month within the Tourist Development Council
report, and every single expenditure that they encounter comes across
my desk from -- whether it's 100 or $200, I actually approve it and
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verify it against some of the metrics and the reasons why they're
doing so.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Both of these are approving
existing agreements that are about to expire, correct?
MR. BEIRNES: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I know you didn't talk about the
amount of money, but UK and Ireland, it's being proposed at
$200,000 and Germany 180,000. What was the previous contract?
I didn't -- maybe I missed it?
MR. BEIRNES: It was -- and you know what, I should have
had that at my fingertips. It was very, very close. It was directed as
being flat. There might have been $10,000 at most between them. I
don't have that recollection. But I think UK was -- 200- was the
previous.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So here's my question -- and I don't
want to come off as sarcastic -- but do you think if we didn't give the
UK and Ireland 200,000, we'd get less British and Ireland visitors
here? If we didn't give 180- to Germany, 180,000, we'd get less
Germans that visit this area?
MR. BEIRNES: Unequivocally, yes. Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Really?
MR. BEIRNES: Not a question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what do they do with the
money?
MR. BEIRNES: So I'll say not even half of it. In fact, it's
within the packet. About a half, I think, of the 200- -- 120,000 off
the top of my head, is their fee, their staffing, their time. Everything
else is built into registrations to be at particular events. For instance,
Germany last week had ITB, which is a major travel trade. They
have to have registration, their presence, and their travel to get to
those markets. But they're also face to face, sitting across the desk
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from the CEO of Lufthansa leveraging not -- actually, you know, I'm
going to use an example. Eurowings is a great example. We tried
for years to get Eurowings' direct flight from Frankfort into RSW
three times a week. Incredible success. Incredible direct lift.
When the hurricane hit, they were quick to -- and I don't want to
be disparaging. They immediately considered just pulling and
canceling that flight. We got on the phone. We encouraged our
reps to be face to face with them, talking extensively, not only on our
behalf, but the entire Southwest Florida, encouraging them why that
would be very, very erosive. Not only would it be erosive to
visitation, but there's also commerce as well and the perception of
Southwest Florida's viability and recovery.
So they really just beat them up, if you will, to stay the course,
and they've maintained their lift coming into market.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So let me ask you this: Your
counterpart in New Orleans, your counterpart in Charlotte, North
Carolina, your counterpart in Orlando is probably feeding this same
group funds as well to be on their radar, correct, or no?
MR. BEIRNES: When you say the same group, these
individuals, no.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes.
MR. BEIRNES: Everyone would have their own
representation, and --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So this group's only working for
us?
MR. BEIRNES: That is true. And, actually, that's part of the
challenge. When we look at representation, we want to make sure
that there's no competitive influence. So I'll just say they would not
be representing West Palm Beach or Fort Lauderdale.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So this is a designated group
identified to work directly and specifically with Collier County. If
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we disapproved this money today, they would evaporate. The
contract would be over, and they'd go off and work somewhere else?
I mean, and I'm asking that as a hypothetical.
MR. BEIRNES: Absolutely true. They would go out, and
they would pursue Daytona, Orlando, or whatever. And so that face
time, those relationships with Lufthansa and the travel agents, they
would just be promoting other destinations. Highly, highly
competitive.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel,
and then Commissioner Hall's on deck.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. My comments are
several. And, first of all, this was heard by the -- I learned this
yesterday that this was heard by the TDC back in September of last
year either right before or right after the hurricane. Not heard by the
current board. We have a new Board of County Commissioners.
In review of the documents, I was reviewing the attachment,
which is the vendor's signed actual contract which references a
resolution that was developed clear back in '04. It's right here. And
so my suggestion -- because the contract's coming due, and I do
concur that something needs to be done in order to extend it. I
would rather we not do it for three years with two more one-year
extensions. I would rather do it for a year, and then you work with
our clerk to have better defined measurables. I wasn't able to discern
from these agreements our ROI, the return on investment.
So my suggestion, if we're going to vote on these today, is -- and
I think we need to just because of the expirations, is just to extend
them for an additional 12 months, and then you work with our clerk
to have better defined measurables for us to be able to ascertain what
we're getting for our money.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me ask, and then I'll go to
Commissioner Hall. So if it was heard in September -- and, granted,
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yeah, we had the hurricane and everything, but one of the things I
don't love today is that this contract -- and I read it, too -- it expires
on March 29th.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I was just wondering why it
didn't come to us sooner with a little more window. And I don't feel
pressured to renew anything if I don't agree with it, but it would be
nice to have had a little bit -- I mean, is that the point you're making
that, you know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus/minus.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Again, we're a couple of
months into the new TDC board. We're three months into a new
Board of County Commissioners. And I would feel more
comfortable if we just extended it for a 12-month period and then
brought it back to the TDC with some recommendations to then come
to this board for a more -- more -- better defined --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Deliverables.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct, measurables.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Measurables. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I agree.
Before I go to Commissioner Hall, and then Commissioner
Kowal's on deck, alls I would just say to the County Manager -- and
this is just more of a generic statement. As we're tracking these
contracts, it behooves us to get them in front of the Board. I mean,
this is a quick discussion. This meeting won't go till 10:00 p.m. to
talk about this one thing. We need to get these in sooner than later
so if any of the five commissioners have an issue, a recommendation,
we're not sitting here feeling -- and I'm not saying we feel pressured
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but, of course, you know, you're sitting here bumping up against a
date. We're trying to be professional to the folks we're hiring. And,
you know, I mean, I know we can't go back in time, but I would
just -- it's more of just a statement.
Ma'am?
MS. PATTERSON: So it was not -- Mr. Beirnes had this on
the agenda timely. It actually is because we were working the issues
out -- some other issues out behind the scenes that caused this one to
be delayed in its delivery to you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: He did have it ready to go with more
notice, but we had other things that we were working on to try to
smooth out some of those issues. So what you see here is the best
product that we were putting forward including working with the
Clerk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. That's fair.
Commissioner Hall, and then Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
You know, I'm looking at this like it's my money. And I know
that when COVID hit, things went to zero. The borders closed. So
it wasn't like, you know, we had all these visitors and then two years,
boom, nothing, nothing, and then, boom, we had them again due to
advertising.
I'm wondering, with the -- since we've been doing this since
2008, how many repeat people from Europe that we get that don't
need any advertising at all. They know what we have here in
Southwest Florida. I'm wondering what the word of mouth is versus
advertising or spending money. I'm wondering what we can
do -- social media, with advertising on social media with $380,000.
You know, the borders are open now, and it's cold there and it's
warm here. And we welcome those people. I'd love to have those
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people here. I've had German neighbors several times, and they're
great people.
But when it comes to us spending our money to get them to
come here, I'm just wondering -- I'm almost willing to take the risk to
say, nope, let's not send you the money. Let's see what you do.
Let's see what our -- let's see what -- I think they're fuzzy figures;
$260 million worth of impact. I know that there's impact, but how
that can be proven, I'm not sure I buy into that. It's like you never
ask an insurance salesman if you need insurance, because they're
always going to say, yes, you do.
So I'm just giving you my just rawbone thoughts from Chris
Hall. I'm wondering if we don't spend this money -- you say they're
dedicated to us -- we're the only ones that they work for, well, if we
don't send them money, then are they out of business? No, they're
working for other people, too. You know, they will take time to go
find other markets. But if we don't send them this money -- or what
if we sent them less money? What if we said, you know, we want to
send you some money for some advertising, but we don't need to
necessarily pay for your staff to travel all over Europe to go talk to
the airlines. The airlines are in business, too. They want to be
bringing people here. They want to expand.
So I'm just wondering, why are we spending all of this money?
Three hundred eighty thousand dollars, you can buy a house for that.
And especially with Commissioner McDaniel, I agree, if we do go
forward to the three-year thing, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't even come
close to doing that.
I would like to even say, take a look at it -- I would almost be
willing to risk -- and I've said it before, and then I'll shut up. I would
be willing to take the risk if they didn't do anything to see what the
impact from Europe was. I think people are coming from Europe
because we have something that's worth coming to.
March 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just have two questions, and one's kind of a follow-up question
that Commissioner LoCastro had asked you already, reference
to -- you referred to the team that works solely for us, you
know -- and I look at these numbers. I mean, 200,000 to the
OMMAC, Ltd. I mean, I would have to believe that OMMAC has
several teams as a company or a corporation. So are you telling me
they survive a year on $200,000? They pay their employees, they
pay their travel, they pay everything out of that $200,000 we give that
particular team?
MR. BEIRNES: It is a boutique agency and, as I mentioned, I'd
have to look to the back pages. I think it was about $120,000 comes
into them directly. I believe that they have a staff of three or four.
They're very small. They have some other focus. They do not have
any competitive destinations. They may do some other initiatives,
but they're not within our travel space within competitive.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Are they based here in the
United States?
MR. BEIRNES: No, they're based -- they're actually in market.
So OMMAC is actually based out of the UK. DiaMonde is actually
based out of Germany. So there's the efficiency. They just drive
down the street and have those meetings with Lufthansa or British
Airways. And they are actually in the market having those
relationships with the travel agents/tour operators.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. I guess my second
question -- I know you haven't been here that long, but I know
COVID -- you know, you came on board.
MR. BEIRNES: Right in the middle of it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, you're new to the
team, and I appreciate that and everything you've been doing.
March 14, 2023
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But my question is the COVID, those two years that basically
Europe shut down travel, U.S. shut down travel, and this contract
extended through that. Were we still paying them?
MR. BEIRNES: We were, but we were actually very
active -- we all remember, we didn't know when the borders would
reopen. You can't just walk away. I will tell you any other
destination that has abandoned or risked that, let's just take a risk, has
fought back for years to regain the momentum.
I believe that what we're seeing now that the borders are open,
and some of the numbers that I just hit, which was last year -- what
was the number? Do this by memory -- 54,000 for the entire
European market last year, and in just two months we've already
secured 31,000. That just shows that last year they were kind of held
at bay. They weren't -- there was no occupancy or the rate was so
high.
But all of those efforts kept us top of mind, kept us refreshed,
and now that we have some occupancy -- and, miraculously, we're
also seeing some really strong numbers in that recovery post
hurricane. So, again, you have to remain in front of them convincing
them that we were not decimated, but we are open, we are
welcoming, and we're capable of providing the airlift through those
relationships with airlines to be able to welcome them in here.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I know, historically, from
my own experience, that I know that the German market seems to
come in our off season.
MR. BEIRNES: Yep.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They seem to occupy more in
our off season than in the in season, you know, just from the 20 years
I've been here. But I feel -- but I kind of feel the same way the rest
of the Board's feeling. I think the way they're leaning, they're
looking at a 12-month period. You know, let's let it run the cycle
March 14, 2023
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and then revisit it again, you know -- but that's kind of the way I'm
leaning on it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's the risk we run if we do
that? Anything? I mean, is this a company that it's three years or
nothing or, you know, the terms of this contract that we're looking at,
the previous one, if we're just going to mirror that, do you know,
what's the wiggle room or --
MR. BEIRNES: I can't answer on their behalf. I would
assume that we would lose a little bit of momentum, because a lot of
this is long-term strategy. It's not driving next Tuesday's booking
but rather even negotiating incremental new flights. Just -- we look
at going to IPW. The conversations that we're hiring -- having,
rather, at IPW are negotiating and getting our destination in the
books, the mindset, the catalog, if you will, for next year. So there's
a lot of advance projection.
So it would take them, I believe, a little bit off of the long-term
strategy and more on the whatever drives tomorrow's booking, which
doesn't always prime the well most efficiently for long-term strategy.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I wonder what the cost would
be. You know, because, I mean, it's like anything else. You have a
three-year contract. It's a certain figure, and then if you say, okay,
I'll just make it one year, it doesn't necessarily divide it by three and
then we just pay that smaller amount. You know, oftentimes the
years are what give you a little bit of -- and I'm not saying that means
we default to it, but I'm just wondering if we made it in one-year
increments what the total would be. Would it just be, you know, that
the ratio would be perfect, and it would be that much less, or, you
know, we'd be paying a lot more, you know, per year?
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to answer that
March 14, 2023
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question?
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. BEIRNES: I don't think there's an answer to that. I think
it would have to come up with conversation between procurement
and the agency. I don't know whether or not they would defer their
interest in the product properly for something that might be a little
more long term three- or five-year business strategy for them as well.
So I think we -- I wouldn't be able to answer on their behalf.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going -- I'm going to
make a motion, then, that we approve it for a one-year contract as
opposed to the proposition of three and two one-year extensions.
So approve it as such to continue on and, again, work with the
Clerk to better define the measurables that are coming from these
companies so that we can better determine our rate of return for the
investment for both of these items.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm prepared to second it, but let
me ask you this: Does he have to do some due diligence and come
back to us? Because if he called them up right now and they said
well, it's three years at 200,000, but if you want to make it one year,
it's 180,000, then we would sit here and go, okay, wait a second, you
know. So, I mean, that's the answer you don't know.
What's -- right?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The answer we don't know is
what we don't know --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- if we don't ask.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so I don't want to carte
blanche just go on with dated information with what I haven't been
able to ascertain from this as decent -- what I perceive to be as -- and
I don't mean disparagingly. It's really -- it's important that folks
March 14, 2023
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understand, we're not throwing rocks at these companies. I mean,
it's -- but to Commissioner Hall's point, I would almost be willing to
roll the dice and see how many people we get without spending any
money at all.
And so if the -- if the pretense is it's a one-year renewal with
a -- with an additional one-year based upon measurables and
deliverables that we can actually ascertain that are vetted by the TDC,
there's no reason for them to discontinue the contract or adjust the
contract because it's going to go on if they're producing. So
production is key. And on that note, with your -- to your point, the
way I read this, the contract comes due at the end of March. We
have another meeting before the end of March --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- so we can actually bring
this item back if, in fact, there is a substantive shift. And I think we
have a TDC meeting in between then and now.
MR. BEIRNES: On Monday.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, that was going to be --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So we would have a shot at it
one more time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That was going to be my point. I
definitely second the motion, but I don't want to do it blindly and say,
okay, well, whatever the total is, just make it one year, because if the
total was the same or, you know, 10 percent less, then I would say,
whoa, whoa, wait a minute, you know, that's not the best use of the
taxpayers' money.
MR. BEIRNES: And if I may, knowing the professionalism of
these two organizations, I know that they will do anything and
everything possible to make this -- make this work. So, again, I
simply can't speak for them, but I do believe that they will -- they will
align.
March 14, 2023
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Also -- and just for the record, the number that is here is not
something that I created. This is something we've actually secured
through our data research company which are way smarter than
anything that I will ever be, to be able to take the intercept data that
they are conducting as well as Zartico data that we have and Brand
USA visitation and expenditure, and then when we ask them what is
the impact for the European, that is their estimate. But that's about
as intelligent information rather than just spitballing numbers. That's
definitely never going to come across my desk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we have a motion, and
I --
Yes, sir. Commissioner Saunders, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I wanted to make
sure I was back online here. I had a little technical difficulties. I
only had one question, and I assume it's probably already been
answered.
But the Tourist Development Council, I assume, has reviewed
these contracts and is recommending this. Commissioner McDaniel
is our representative to that board, so it's really a question for
Commissioner McDaniel. You haven't been on there very long, so
maybe it was approved before you were there. But has this been
reviewed by the TDC?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that was one of my
statements earlier, Commissioner Saunders, no, not while I was there.
It happened -- I think I was told yesterday that it actually got
reviewed and approved back in September with a different Board of
County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, that's fine. That's
good.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that was one of -- my
rationale for extending for one year. And if you want to do with an
March 14, 2023
Page 96
additional year just to give them some -- or two additional one-year
extensions, I'm fine with that, because it will come back to us, it will
come back to the TDC, it will come back to this board with hopefully
better defined measurables.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. And I would second
that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is that clear what we're looking
for?
MR. BEIRNES: So my understanding --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes.
MR. BEIRNES: And I will go back to them both and share
what the procedure is, which is one-year contract with two optional
one-year extensions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. BEIRNES: We'll talk about any metrics and
improvements. Again, we'll have to maybe define that greater,
because what the greatest impact is what is driving on tourist
development tax and visitation, and we do have that. But we'll go
into deeper depth on that one. But I'll reach out to them right away
and then work with procurement on adjusting the existing contract.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I think it's important to echo
what we all said up here. Nobody's throwing stones or spears. But,
you know, to Commissioner Hall's point -- but I'll actually, you
know, piggyback on that. It actually is our money. You know, it's
taxpayer money. It's -- and we're taxpayers, too. And so it's real
money. And having measurables and deliverables with more
specificity, especially since, you know, you're in the seat now and
have really delivered on so many positive things when it comes to
tourism, so I think that's what we're looking for here.
And if in your conversations with them you guessed wrong and
March 14, 2023
Page 97
they immediately throw up a red flag and say, oh, the algorithm is
totally different, then, on how much we're going to charge you, then,
obviously, that would go to the TDC and then eventually come back
to us. And Commissioner McDaniel is obviously our TDC rep.
Okay. Well, I have a motion and second. All in favor?
MS. PATTERSON: Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, yes, ma'am.
MS. PATTERSON: Before you vote, just a clarification on the
renewals. That is not typically something that comes back to you.
So I'll let the County Attorney chime in.
MR. KLATZKOW: As I understand the conversation, you
want the option to extend.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: Typically, that's not how we do it. We
will change that contract so that the option to renew, really,
for -- both parties have to agree to extend.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm fine with that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And we're doing it in one-year
increments, not --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and the premise -- the
premise of the motion was so that we had what I -- that we work with
the Clerk to get better defined measurables within that 12-month
period so that when it, in fact, comes back, it can then go forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And as a minimum, that will have
to go to the TDC, which does have a commissioner rep on it, which is
yourself. So if you hear or see of something that causes you great
concern or angst, then, obviously, you --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Come back.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- call a quick timeout and come
back to us.
March 14, 2023
Page 98
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, County Manager, is that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You okay with that?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You okay with all that?
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes 4-1.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, before we move on to the
next item, for timing’s sake, we have three items -- four items left.
So the question is, do we want to push on and take these four, or if
we are going to go to lunch, perhaps you want to take the CRA item,
because we have public speakers on that --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MS. PATTERSON: -- in advance of lunch, then take lunch,
and then finish up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep. I think that's the best way to
go, for sure.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. All right. In that case, we're
going to move to the Community Redevelopment Agency.
Item #14B1
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS (BCC), ACTING IN
ITS CAPACITY AS THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
March 14, 2023
Page 99
AGENCY (CRA), APPROVE THE CENTRAL BOARDWALK
ALIGNMENT, REJECT THE SOUTHERN BOARDWALK
ALIGNMENT, AND DIRECT STAFF TO ENGAGE
PROFESSIONAL DESIGN SERVICES TO DESIGN AND
PERMIT TWO PARKING AREAS TO SUPPORT THE
BOARDWALK CONNECTION FROM BAYSHORE DRIVE TO
SUGDEN REGIONAL PARK WITHIN THE BAYSHORE
GATEWAY TRIANGLE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AREA - MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
HALL – APPROVED - 5/0
14B1 is a recommendation that the Board of County
Commissioners, acting in its capacity as the Community
Redevelopment Agency, approve the central boardwalk alignment,
reject the southern boardwalk alignment, and direct staff to engage
professional design services to design and permit two parking areas
to support the boardwalk connection from Bayshore Drive to Sugden
Regional Park within the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Community
Redevelopment Area.
Ms. Deb Forester, your CRA director, is here to present.
MS. FORESTER: Good morning, Commissioners. Deborah
Forester, CRA director.
I do have a short presentation I'm happy to go through, or we
can go right to questions. I know we do have several members from
our advisory board here in the audience to speak on this item, if you
like, and also Donna McGinness from the Naples Botanical Garden
was previously here to show her support but was -- had to leave early.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd like to see the presentation, me
personally, just -- if it's short and just to get it on the record.
MS. FORESTER: Sure. So here we are again with the
March 14, 2023
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pedestrian connection from Bayshore Drive to Sugden Regional Park.
On December 13th, we brought this item to you. The Board
directed us at that time to move forward with an analysis for an
alternative location, which would have been the southern boardwalk,
and to look at parking considerations.
So today we're bringing back the central boardwalk as our
recommendation. The reason why we are bringing this back is it is
consistent with the current Mixed-U [sic] Planned Unit Development
that's on the site. There is some stormwater treatment drain
available, which allows for better stormwater treatment along the
way. It has direct pedestrian access to both Tracts A to the north and
Tract A to the south. It allows for a 12- to 15-wood -- 15-foot-wide
pedestrian access which is considered a multiuse pathway allowing
both pedestrians, bicyclists, people with strollers to safely access both
to the east and to the west on that pathway. Better managed
wetlands and capitalizes on the natural setting there. And the
estimated cost here is approximately $2.7 million.
We have had a number of community engagements on this
particular project dating back, really, to 2018 when we were looking
at the redevelopment plan, and then most recently when we hired
Stantec Consulting to help us with the design. We began in August
and presented at the advisory board. They supported that central
alignment again in December. And then we revisited the southern
alignment, took that back to our advisory board who, again,
recommended the central. And then we had a community-wide
meeting on January 21st. We had over 50 people attend on site.
They were able to take a tour of the site. We had additional
comment cards that were distributed to some of the surrounding
neighborhoods. We received back 125 comment cards, and the
majority of those folks supported that central boardwalk alignment.
Why not the southern boardwalk? Well, it's not consistent with
March 14, 2023
Page 101
the overall planning concept. It has limited stormwater management
treatment to just shallow swales along that area. There's no
pedestrian access between the northern Tract A and the southern
Tract A. There would be additional permitting because of the
wetland impacts.
We believe it would have impacts to the future development of
the southern Tract A and the impact on the residential properties that
are around just to the south on Jeepers Drive.
Estimated cost here is 2.8. That does include a concrete wall
that would be installed between Jeepers residents and the buffer along
our project.
And the concerns on Jeepers Drive: We've had substantial new
residential improvements on that street. The street on the back of
those yards come right up to our fence line. And if we are putting in
this bike path and leaving an area for a future driveway into the
southern Tract A, that 10-foot buffer requirement would be needed.
But the people on Jeepers are very concerned with privacy, safety,
and potential to decrease their property values.
Our two parking lot areas: The first one is the north parking
lot, which is on that north Tract A. This would allow us for 20
stalls. We are looking, of course, at a low-impact design. It would
allow for flexibility for future development if that piece of property
was developed. The estimated cost here is $62,250, and estimated
construction is 415,000, and this would be keeping an open
stormwater system.
The southern parking area is at the corner of Jeepers and
Bayshore Drive. Right now we're showing for 17 stalls. Again, this
would be a low-impact design with open stormwater. Estimated
design is 67,500. Estimated construction costs, 450,000. We could
do an additional 10 parking spaces if we went with a closed drainage.
That would cost approximately $75,000.
March 14, 2023
Page 102
And that is my short presentation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've got some public
comment right, Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: Yes, we do, sir. We have a total of six
registered public speakers. Would you like them now?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes. Let's go with the public
comment first.
MR. MILLER: We will begin with Michael B. Sherman, and
he will be followed by Kathi Kilburn. I think -- did you say Kathi
had to leave?
MS. FORESTER: No, that was Donna.
MR. MILLER: Okay. I'm sorry. He'll be followed by Kathi
Kilburn.
Go ahead.
MR. SHERMAN: Good morning. Thank you for allowing me
to speak about the location of the pathway in the Bayshore Arts
District to Sugden Park. By way of introduction, I'm 80 years old.
I'm a member of the advisory board of the Bayshore/Gateway
Triangle CRA. I'm an area resident for 22 years and a life-long real
estate professional. I was the CEO of CB Richard Ellis New
England for 20 years until I retired. So I have some background in
some of the real estate aspects of this issue.
In retirement, I have invested in the CRA district by buying,
designing, and constructing and selling 11 new Key West style
homes. The Island Cottages in the Bayshore Arts District on Jeepers
Drive is an infill group of homes that I am very proud of. We have
two additional lots left, which I plan to design and develop into
cottages which will continue to signal that this unique and diverse
urban neighborhood is special and welcoming to people of all
incomes and backgrounds.
The connection between Sugden Park and Bayshore Drive is
March 14, 2023
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very necessary and a long time in coming. At the inception of the
CRA, there may have been some questions about connecting the two,
as Kelly Road was a deplorable place. That is not the case today, as
the residents, investors, and business owners, pioneers in this case,
have worked with the government, taken risks, and focused on
improving the Bayshore Arts District, raising the tax collections
fourfold while withstanding a bruising 10-year recession in a
transitional area.
Only since 2016 has new development returned and provided
tax collections to the CRA coffers. Before that, we went through 10
years where we really were mostly out of business in the CRA in
terms of any cash flow.
We, the staff, and advisory board of the CRA, and the
consultants who have helped us with this, unanimously want to do it
right on this pathway, and our consultants have designed a beautiful
way to do just that. Imagine our shock when being informed that
some of our CRA board directors might not agree.
Simply put, the southern route is not the way to do it right. It
would be narrow, blinded on one side by fencing and homes along its
south side on Jeepers Drive, it will reduce the tax collections from
this street, and the whole district would be marginally used, and it
will not serve -- and it will not save any CRA money. Call it a
Peeping Tom sidewalk.
Doing it the right way is to go forward with the central route. It
would be a beautiful nature pathway of uplands and boardwalks and
bridges through a beautiful pond, a suitable entry for all the Bayshore
area residents and guests to the amazing Sugden Park and Lake
Avalon. I call it the Sugden Park Greenway, an improvement to be
very proud of.
What I'm asking is please vote as a member of our
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA board of directors for the central
March 14, 2023
Page 104
route and get this thing moving.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kathi Kilburn. She'll be
followed by Bill DiMarco.
MS. KILBURN: Good morning. Kathi Kilburn. I am a
primary resident since 2015 in the Bayshore area. I bought new
construction on Linda Drive. I was the second buyer. I took a risk
on a builder who was not very well known, took a risk in the area as a
single female.
And I am also a realtor who has continued to sell the area,
because I love it. I feel safe now. I didn't feel that way in the
beginning, but I did take a risk. I had some foresight.
I am also a board member on the CRA, so I come to you with a
variety of avenues. And when the pedestrian boardwalk was
presented to the CRA by Stantec, it showed down the center of the
17 acres, and what could possibly be done with the remaining land.
It's a unique parcel. Whether you decide to sell the remaining acres
or keep it for public use, it still makes no sense, aesthetically,
financially, or neighborly to run the expensive boardwalk along the
southern side butting up to Jeepers. It just doesn't make sense. I
mean, if you look at the acres, it just looks like an odd place to put it.
That looks like a mistake.
The full benefit of the cost would be irresponsible at best and
like a huge mistake at worse. Regardless of what could or will
eventually go on the 17 acres does remain to be seen; however, I, as a
resident, realtor, and board member, think having the boardwalk at
the location recommended by Stantec will create the most valuable to
the parklike atmosphere and would better suit a sale to somebody
who has vision of our community and would be inclusive of our
neighbors.
We could have small shops, art shows, et cetera, on both sides of
the boardwalk. Please strongly consider keeping the boardwalk
March 14, 2023
Page 105
central to the 17 acres and as designed by Stantec. The community
and the citizens will really appreciate it. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Bill DiMarco. He'll be
followed by Al Schantzen.
MR. DiMARCO: Good day. My name is Bill DiMarco. I
have been a resident in the Bayshore area for -- since 1999. I
recently bought one of those properties that Michael has, you know,
developed, and my home backs onto that southern edge.
My concern is not like -- the same as everybody's concern, so I
don't have to repeat all the things that have been said.
We -- I represent the street. I've talked to several of my
neighbors. They all feel the same way, that the southern border path
is just sort of something to be stuck there rather than an improved
area that the Bayshore area has done over these last 20 years.
We've seen a lot of improvements. You know, we've got the
Botanical Garden, we've got that whole Del's Corner, a number of art
shops and different things, Celebration Park, all have contributed to
the growth of the area.
So I wish and hope that the Board -- or the Commissioners vote
for the southern [sic] property. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Your next speaker is Al --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You meant central. You
said southern. You meant central.
MR. DiMARCO: Oh, central. Sorry. Central.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Al Schantzen. He'll be
followed on Zoom by Brad Merriman.
MR. SCHANTZEN: Hi. Good afternoon, Commissioners,
Mr. Chairman. Al Schantzen, for the record, a very young man;
been here since the '70s. Me and my -- and also a Board member of
the CRA.
March 14, 2023
Page 106
Me and the residents that I surround with and cohabit with are
very much in favor of going down the center of this environment.
The side southern access point would remind me of the old Kelly
Road, kind of hid off in the side in the closet; whereas, we can really
make it a beautiful crown jewel right down the middle.
One of the other things that we talked about and added to these
things was parking lots so the rest of the county can come and really
enjoy this access that -- we would really appreciate you guys if you'd
approve the center line.
One of the other things we can look at doing on these parcels is
taking other parts of county amenities, such as museums and other
cultural things, into these other pieces of the property to make it a
destination not only in the green space area but in the cultural sense
and having the history available to the people in the local area.
So I do request that you see the way and go for the central area
instead of the Kelly Road.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is Brad Merriman,
and he will be followed by, on Zoom, Howie Blatt.
Mr. Merriman, you're prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
so at this time. I see you have. You have three minutes, sir.
MR. MERRIMAN: Great, thank you.
Commissioners, thank you very much for the opportunity to
speak.
While I haven't spoken in front of you in the past, I have
watched many Collier County meetings, commissioner meetings,
including the extended marathon on February 14th, so I thank you for
your service and your commitment to the county and the people in
the county.
Again, my name's Brad Merriman. I've been a resident of the
Bayshore area since 2005. We bought here when Bayshore was not
March 14, 2023
Page 107
a great place to live, but we bought into it based on the commitment
of the -- we thought that the private sector would invest based on the
investment that the government was making via the Bayshore
Beautification MTSU [sic] and the CRA. And it's been a spectacular
success. And you have a vote in front of you, I hope, because I hope
there's going to be a motion to approve this and a second and it will
pass, that hopefully will be an easy vote and a fun vote for you,
because you have the opportunity to approve the central path, and it
will be a continued spark in the great improvement in the Bayshore
area that will benefit everybody in Naples, not just those local
residents.
And I'd like to just go back to 18 years ago. You didn't see
much activity on the street, but today you drive down Bayshore, and
even in the early evening, you see people biking, walking,
rollerblading, skateboarding, on scooters. You see people pushing
baby carriages. Even 10 years ago you wouldn't imagine that, and
that's happening.
And by approving that central path boardwalk, which we hope
you do today, it will open up access to a hidden jewel in the Collier
County Park District, Sugden Park, and it will just be spectacular.
Just very quickly, to wrap up here, is to say, I think this
hopefully is an easy vote because there's not anybody that's against
this. You've got residents in the area who have spoken nearly
unanimous in support of this central path boardwalk. On top of that,
you have the CRA advisory board, which are folks that have been
named based on their commitment and knowledge of the community,
and they have voted unanimously to support that.
You have county staff that is very close to this that is strongly
endorsing and supporting the central path boardwalk, and you have
the engineering firm, the paid professionals that are coming in saying
the central path boardwalk is the way to go.
March 14, 2023
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You have outside stakeholders like the director of the Botanical
Garden that has voiced support of that. I understand, unfortunately,
she had to leave and was not able to speak. And it even gets better,
because there's no Collier general fund tax dollars that are being
asked. What's being asked is to spend the CRA dollars that have
been generated based on all the great work that's been done in the
community.
So it's my hope that this project, what has been in the works for
many, many, many years, would get voted on today and, you know,
next season we can all smile as you walk past and you see the
beautiful new boardwalk and people enjoying it.
Thank you so much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Zoom is Howie Blatt. He
will be followed by one more speaker here in the room, Karen Beatty.
Mr. Blatt, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
so at this time. And I'm going to ask Ms. Beatty to come up here.
I'm not seeing Mr. Blatt unmute himself at this point. So, Karen, if
you'll come on up.
Mr. Blatt, you're being prompted to unmute yourself.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. We're going to hold off on him.
Ms. Beatty, you have three minutes.
MS. BEATTY: Hello, Commissioners. Good to see you.
I'm Karen Beatty, for the record, current chair of the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA advisory board.
I was on the Board when we assembled these tiny parcels to
make way for a catalyst project for Bayshore. I'd like to read my
notes here because I don't want to forget anything.
The 17 acres was purchased with the idea of being a catalyst
project for Bayshore. As I see it, building the boardwalk in the
center is a win-win with that goal in mind. This unique parcel,
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unlike any in the Bayshore district, lends itself to multiple purposes.
I don't know any other property that does it so well.
The central boardwalk will not only be the much-needed
recreational space for the citizens of Bayshore who now, due to the
density of current and future development, of which there is a lot, as
well as Bayshore Drive having become a busy four-lane thoroughfare
with trucks, boats on trailers, and folks using Bayshore to cut through
to communities that aren't even in this area, they need a safe place to
walk, bike, or walk their pets. The central boardwalk will
complement and be an asset to any future development on the
remaining acreage and, thirdly, the manmade lakes on this property
serve as a great purpose for stormwater management.
The building of the central boardwalk allows for the highest and
best use for the residents of Bayshore. Building the boardwalk on
the south end of the property infringes on the Jeepers neighborhood
and does not provide the benefit of enjoying the sanctuary-like setting
the central boardwalk does, which adds to the Blue Zone
recommendations for citizens to de-stress and reset on all levels.
Sorry, I have a call coming in.
The traffic congestion on Bayshore is being studied; however,
it's not an easy fix. The sidewalks are occupied by bicyclists and are
not safe. With most streets off Bayshore being short end -- short
dead-end streets, the sidewalks are the only place to walk your dogs.
The citizens need a safe place to recreate near home. I see this
project as a crown jewel for Bayshore and a real legacy for the CRA,
and I encourage you to vote for the central boardwalk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, with your permission, I'd like to
give Mr. Blatt one more chance. I think there was a problem on his
end.
Mr. Blatt, you're prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at
March 14, 2023
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this time. Mr. Blatt, this is your final call.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chair, we've made good-faith
effort.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Going to Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I would like to make a motion to approve the agenda item
as -- the way it's being recommended to us today.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going to support the
motion, but I'm going to -- first of all, Michael, I didn't bag you last
week when you were trying to speak with me. I was traveling from
Tallahassee and whatnot, so I meant no disrespect, my friend.
I want to say this out loud. I read the executive summary. As
most of you know -- Ms. Karen, you and I spoke a couple of weeks
ago over the phone -- I haven't been an advocate of the central path.
I want to say out loud that the CRA chose to buy this piece of
property back in 2006, spent $5.4 million of the taxpayers' money to
buy this piece of property.
I have lived here for 41 years, and I remember when this was
Kelly Road, and I have seen a phenomenal improvement in the area.
And I want the CRA board to put as much effort as you have in
moving towards a central path. TPC, you're going to be at, per my
math, in excess of $8 million invested in this piece of property
between its original acquisition, no appropriation for any opportunity
costs or the loss as the case may be with regard to the original
acquisition, close to 17 years of hold from when this piece of
property was bought, and now we're going to spend another 2.7 to
build the central path.
I want as much effort put into either the disposition and/or the
March 14, 2023
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development of the balance of that piece of property for the
utilization of the community and generation of tax dollars back to
CRA/the county with regard to this expenditure.
I'm going to support Commissioner Kowal's motion because it is
nice. There's no argument that the central pathway is the way to go,
but I want the folks on Jeepers to know that that now wooded area
that's designated as Tract A on this map up here isn't going to be
trees. There will be something put there.
COMMISSIONER HALL: How much acres is that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus/minus five, if I recall.
MS. FORESTER: Correct, between four and five acres.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so both of those Tract
A's are going to be something else other than parking lots at some
stage.
So I'm going to support the motion because we need to go
forward, but I also am looking for -- to have the CRA board be put on
notice that I want as much effort put into the utilization and the
benefit to the county and the community with regard to the
already-expensed-out revenues.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, if you're
online, I just want to make sure you didn't have any comments or
questions.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I appreciate that. No, I'm
all set to vote on this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
March 14, 2023
Page 112
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. FORESTER: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is this a good time for a break, or
you have something you're trying to squeeze in?
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's take a break, and
we'll be back here at, say, 1:20. Is that enough, 1:20?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I might be late, but I'll be
back.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:18 p.m. to 1:20 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're moving to -- is it
11D?
Item #11D
FY 2023 BUDGET AMENDMENTS IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT
OF $29,859,500 TO REALLOCATE FUNDING PROVIDED FOR
DEBRIS REMOVAL AND TRANSFER ADDITIONAL
RESERVES TO SUPPORT CONTINUED POST HURRICANE
IAN RECOVERY IN FEMA HURRICANE FUND (727), RETURN
FUNDING TO THE SOLID WASTE DRIVEWAY PROGRAM
PROJECT (59001), AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL FUNDING
FOR UNBUDGETED STORM RELATED FORCE ACCOUNT
OVERTIME; AND TO AUTHORIZE FUTURE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS FOR THE REALLOCATION OF EXISTING
FUNDING BETWEEN COST CENTERS WITHIN FEMA
HURRICANE FUND (727), HURRICANE IAN PROJECT (50280)
TO EXPEDITE RECOVERY - MOTION TO APPROVE AS
March 14, 2023
Page 113
PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED- 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: 11D is a recommendation to authorize
FY2023 budget amendments in the total $29,859,500 to reallocate
funding provided for debris removal and transfer additional reserves
to support continued post Hurricane Ian recovery in FEMA Hurricane
Fund 727, return funding to the Solid Waste Driveway Program
Project, and provide additional funding for unbudgeted storm-related
force account overtime, and to authorize future budget amendments
for the reallocation of existing funding between cost centers within
FEMA Hurricane Fund 727, Hurricane Ian Project 50280 to expedite
recovery.
Mr. Chris Johnson, your budget director or director of Corporate
Financial and Management Services, is here to answer questions or
present.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.
Good afternoon, Commissioners. Christopher Johnson, interim
director of Corporate Financial and Management Services.
I have a brief presentation prepared for you today related to this
item. As the County Manager just stated, we are recommending the
Board to authorize a budget amendment in the amount of
$29,859,500 to reallocate funding for the response to Hurricane Ian
as well as authorize future budget amendments within FEMA
Hurricane Fund 727 through -- I'm sorry -- for the Hurricane Ian
project.
Though the gross dollar amount of this budget amendment is
rather large, I want to assure the Board that this is a routine exercise
and typical for cash flowing disaster recovery.
Before I get into the specifics of this budget, I wanted to quickly
bring the Board up to speed on where the budget for Hurricane Ian
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currently sits.
So on this slide here, you can see that the approved funding that
the Board has approved so far is $125,150,000. Funding consists of
43 million in general governmental funding from your General Fund
and your General Governmental Capital Fund; 55 million in
enterprise funding. This is from your Solid Waste Funds and your
Water and Sewer District Funds.
Twenty-seven million in TDC funding. This is for the beach
renourishment and the beach berm and $100,000 of CAT funding for
your transit system.
Actual expenses to date total about $31.4 million, and you can
see the breakdown on those expenses by your fund category here on
the slide.
The next slide here, the table on this slide depicts the current
Hurricane Ian funding by fund in the left column, and you'll see that
total as we went through on the other slide is 125,150,000. In the
center there we have how these budget amendments will affect our
Hurricane Ian funding. And then, finally, on the end we have the
proposed funding after the budget amendments.
And I'll focus on the budget amendment part here and start at the
top. With the debris mission concluding, the actual cost of the
mission is expected to be substantially less than we initially
anticipated. So with that, we're recommending the reallocation of
$23 million from the Hurricane Ian project within the Solid Waste
Fund; 22.5 million of this is going to support your permanent work in
FEMA Disaster Recovery Fund 727, and 500,000 will be utilized to
restore project funding within Fund 474, your Solid Waste Fund.
In addition to the 22.5 million from the Solid Waste Fund, we
are recommending the transfer of an additional 5 million in reserves
from General Governmental Capital Fund 301 to support permanent
work resulting -- resulting from -- in an increase -- I'm
March 14, 2023
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sorry -- resulting in an increase to FEMA Disaster Fund 727 of
$27.5 million.
And then, finally, we're requesting a budget amendment for
$1,859,500 within multiple funds to make operating divisions whole
by providing funding for unbudgeted overtime expenses resulting
from staff's response to Hurricane Ian.
These budget amendments will result in an increase to the
approved Hurricane Ian budget of approximately $6.36 million,
bringing the total approved funding to 131.5 million.
And this slide here depicts the additional funding sources that
we discussed earlier: 5 million from countywide capital reserves
and then about 1.9 million from your divisional reserves as well as
the restoration of $500,000 in your solid waste driveway projects.
And then, finally, I just kind of wanted to briefly go over what
Fund 727 is. It's our Disaster Recovery Fund. We created this fund
after Hurricane Irma from kind of lessons learned. We keep all of
our -- most of our expenses, our divisional expenses within the
Centralized Disaster Fund; it allows us to keep an eye on it and also
have all the documentation in one place. After this budget
amendment is completed, there will be about $60.5 million in this
fund across the 30 divisional cost centers.
With that said, we're also requesting authorization to adjust
budgets between cost centers within this fund administratively. So
we're able to adjust when we get in quotes, when we get in contracts
to be able to expedite this recovery process.
And with that, I'll take any questions that the Board may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why would we authorize future
budget amendments today? It just seems like we're rubber stamping
anything in the future to just make it -- you know, for your office to
just make command decisions, you know, on your own as long as it's
within the hurricane -- you know, different funds or whatnot, correct?
March 14, 2023
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MR. JOHNSON: That's a great question. So what you would
be authorizing is movement between the cost centers within Fund
727. So when we do this budget amendment, we kind of -- we
sprinkled money withinto these cost centers where we believe the
funding will be needed. As contracts and actual site inspections
reveal what the actual costs will be for these individual divisions, it
helps us administratively to not have to return to the Board for
already-approved funding to be able to move that, get those POs
going, and start our recovery process. With that said, any additional
funding coming into the fund through transfers or revenue
recognition would require --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Got to come to us.
MR. JOHNSON: -- us to come back for you guys to approve.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Does anybody have any questions?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nope.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, do you
have any questions, sir?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, sir. It all sounds pretty
clear to me. I support the staff recommendation. And I'll make a
motion --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll make a motion to
approve. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. I'll make a motion to
approve.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
March 14, 2023
Page 117
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously.
Thanks, Chris.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Commissioners.
Item #11E
ADOPT THE FY 2024 BUDGET POLICY AND ADOPT A
RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A DEADLINE OF MAY 1, 2023,
FOR BUDGET SUBMITTALS BY THE SUPERVISOR OF
ELECTIONS, THE SHERIFF’S OFFICE, AND THE CLERK. (ED
FINN, DEPUTY COUNTY MANAGER) (ALL DISTRICTS)
RESOLUTION 2023-49: - MOTION TO ADOPT RESOLUTION
AS PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL:
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 11E. This may be the most exciting topic on today's agenda.
This is your budget guidance for FY2024, a recommendation to adopt
the FY2024 budget policy and adopt a resolution establishing a
deadline of May 1st, 2023, for budget submittals by the Supervisor of
Elections, the Sheriff's Office, and the Clerk.
Mr. Ed Finn, Deputy County Manager, is here to present.
MR. FINN: Thank you, Ms. Patterson.
Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, Edward Finn, Deputy
County Manager.
It's that time again where we go through our budget policy.
Are we good, Troy?
MR. MILLER: Yeah, I'm getting it. It's fighting me.
MR. FINN: In any event, we're going to talk about, today, a
couple things, and we're going to go fast. We have a modest-sized
March 14, 2023
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deck of slides here, and I'm going try to go through them real fast.
Mr. Johnson, who you just talked to, is going to help me out a little
bit on some of -- some of the more technical things, but we'll get right
to it.
What we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about the
budget schedule first, and we're going to talk a little bit, to orient the
Board, on the '23 budgets, and then we're going to hit some of the '24
policy highlights for you, millage rate policy, Conservation Collier.
MSTUs are typically how we break our millages down.
We're going to talk a little bit about a little change to when we're
going to add funding. Those would be pretty much for mission
critical program enhancements. We're going to get a little general
guidance from the Board, and we're going to talk a little bit about
revenue centric budgets or what would perhaps more precisely be
called our Enterprise Fund budgets that are based on their own rates.
They operate in a little different program than general fund in 111 in
terms of what they're -- what their expenditure targets are. Then
we're going to talk a little bit about our compensation approach,
healthcare program, and wrap that up with retirement.
So today, having said all that, we're looking for the Board to
adopt -- adopt the budget policies that we detailed in the attached
58-page policy document and is, to a great extent, included in this
presentation also attached to your item. We're going to establish the
June budget workshop dates, as well as the September hearing dates.
And, lastly, on an annual basis we establish a resolution for when the
constitutionals are going to submit their budgets to us.
Next slide, Troy.
So the schedule going forward with the budget, today we're
going to handle budget policy, that resolution I mentioned which has
the constitutionals submit their budget in May. June 1st we receive
our first indication of what the taxable value is actually likely to be.
March 14, 2023
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That's the preliminary report from the Property Appraiser.
In June, we have our two workshop dates, and they're identified
on the slide in front of you. July 1st we receive the final taxable
value from the Property Appraiser, and that's what we'll actually use
to finalize both the budget and the taxes to be levied.
July 11th, we'll come back to the Board in a regular meeting,
and the Board will then adopt the maximum millage levies for the
budget. Finally, July 14th, the staff will provide to you the tentative.
And that brings us to the September hearings. There are two public
hearings that are necessary by statute. Those two hearings, typically,
the first one is advertised by the TRIM notice, and the next one is
advertised by a notice in the newspaper.
By way of orientation, this is the '23 -- broadly speaking, the '23
gross budget. In the middle top is the County Manager portion of
the General Fund. Moving around to the right, the orange or
yellow -- yellow slice of the constitutional officers' portion of the
General Fund budget as well. So, together, those are in excess of
$900 million.
Special revenue funds, in red is principally the 111 or the
Unincorporated Area General Fund, as well as the smaller MSTUs,
TDC, Pelican Bay grants. General government debt is identified by
the green slice there representing about 2 percent of the General
Fund. General government capital projects, which is kind of an
all-in analysis, is about 19 percent of that.
Enterprise Funds, I mentioned to you, water, sewer, solid waste,
transit services, things that generate their own revenues. Internal
Service Funds, fleet, information technology. And the permanent
trust funds are pretty much isolated in the Conservation Collier area.
There's two formal escrow trusts; one for Pepper Ranch and the other
one for the Caracara Preserve.
This slide provides kind of a little -- a little finer slice of the
March 14, 2023
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General Fund expense side category. This one's a little lower. It
takes out the reserves -- I'm sorry, it does not take out the reserves.
But if we start from the left, about 31, almost 32 percent of it are the
general government functions, the largest one is roads,
stormwater -- I'll pick out some of the other larger ones -- library,
parks, facilities management, other capital projects, ARP grants, and
totaling about $202 million. So that represents the 2003 [sic]
budget.
Typically, as we move forward, this would give you a sense of
the way the '24 budget is likely to shape up on a proportional basis.
On the right-hand side, we talk about things that are a little bit
closer to being mandated; health, safety, and welfare. And you'll see
there, there are the largest -- largest share by far is the law
enforcement provided through the Sheriff. Next in line would be
emergency services, and reserves we consider to be same level of
requirement as those other two.
In the middle there is the debt service coming out of the General
Fund, and then down below that in green is the other areas that are
largely mandated. There's not a lot of flexibility in adjusting those.
And, again, this is just to give you a sense of the proportion of the
budget.
This shows you the '23 millage rates, and typically we don't kind
of deal with it at this level in this meeting, but we thought just to give
everybody a little bit of orientation. At the very top are the three
millages that are countywide, so that would be the General Fund, the
Water Pollution Control Fund, which not only is countywide but was
also approved by referendum in 1988. And the Conservation Collier
Fund, again, went to referendum at an amount not to exceed a quarter
mill. So that combined number -- and I'll look at the far right-hand
column of 3.8 mills -- that is the countywide millage that we assess
overall. The General Fund is the largest component of that at 3.56.
March 14, 2023
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As we move to the next section, the first one on there is the
Unincorporated Area General Fund. That is the General Fund that
supports the entire unincorporated area, so that's the entire county
less the three municipalities. That provides municipal type services
to that unincorporated area.
The other -- the other millages that you see here are individual
MSTUs that are largely defined by the areas. The areas are typically
in the name. One of the things that we're a little bit sensitive to is
the impact of Hurricane Ian damage on the tax value. When I look
at this, there will be a little bit of an impact in the General Fund, a
little bit in 111, and we may see more substantial impacts in the two
Vanderbilt MSTUs or, perhaps, even the Pelican Bay, though. I
think their structure -- their damages is exclusively on the beach
rather than the residential improved property.
Next slide, if you would, Troy. Thank you.
Again, to give the Board a sense of what we're looking at, this is
a -- by percentages how a typical tax bill in the unincorporated area
breaks down. Again, kind of starting at the top with the orange one.
The orange slice is county general government at about 26 percent.
The next slice is the county constitutional officers, including the
Sheriff, and the last are the county MSTUs at about 8 percent. And
the largest share of that is the fund that I kind of spent a moment
discussing, the Unincorporated Area General Fund.
So that side of the pie are the millages that the Board has
some -- has control over. They represent about 47 or 47-and-a-half
percent of the total.
The portion of the pie on the left-hand side, I'll start at -- start at
the top on the left. Independent school board is about 38 percent.
The smaller independent Collier Mosquito Control District and the
Water Management District and then the independent fire control
districts which, depending on where you live, is one-and-a-half, for
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instance for Greater Naples. So that represents about 52 percent of
the tax bill that people see.
Millage rate policy this year, we have -- we're recommending
moving forward with a budget planning increase for taxable value of
about 5.75 percent. That is -- we're hoping that that's a conservative
number. We have subsequent to the printing of this, the -- some of
the estimating conference provided some numbers, and that's a little
bit higher than this. Overall, with hurricane -- the impacts of
Hurricane Ian being somewhat unknown, we think that this is a good
number.
We will move forward with that number. And in June, when
the Property Appraiser provides their initial estimate, we adjust the
budget accordingly, and if the budget goes up, the Board will be
advised of that, and there will be an opportunity to make those
decisions.
As has typically been the case, we're recommending what we
call a millage neutral or the same millage rate as the prior year. This
allows us to benefit from the growth in taxable value. That allows
us to respond to natural disasters or manmade disasters. It gives us
some budget flexibility.
Public health, safety, and welfare, continuing infrastructure
investment, human capital investment and, perhaps most important
from a flexibility and being prepared, a good healthy reserve. The
healthy reserve allows us to respond to changes. It allows our credit
rating to remain high. It's a critical thing that the credit rating
agencies look at, and we think that that's critically important.
I'm going to skip down one, two, three, four -- about the fifth
bullet down. FY'24 funding examples include Great Wolf economic
development agreement. So that's going to have to be cash flowed
by the General Fund. We anticipate they're going to be at 50 percent
complete, and they're going to be in line for a half -- 500 -- strike
March 14, 2023
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that -- $5 million economic development check from the county.
Some of these other areas that have kind of come to light,
hardening the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hang on. I think it was
15 million, wasn't it?
MR. FINN: All in it's 15 million. It's incremental.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The first check's 5 million.
MR. FINN: The first check was 2-, and that's been paid. This
is the -- this would be the next check at this amount. I think that
represents 50 percent completion on their construction, sir.
The hardening of the 800 megahertz public safety radio system
is an item that's come to us. That's a critical item in our view. We
have a strong sense that our responsibility over public safety is
probably a -- is our top responsibility.
And then another public safety responsibility is some of the
requested changes to the Ochopee Fire District agreement that we're
preparing to respond to, and that's included in this budget to a great
extent.
Troy, next slide.
I mentioned the Unincorporated Area General Fund. Our
approach here, again, is a millage neutral or the same millage as last
year. The Unincorporated Area General Fund is a microcosm of the
General Fund. It has clearly important responsibilities there:
Community parks, code enforcement, zoning, land-use natural
resources, our road and bridge maintenance activities. And it, too,
has a responsibility for the capital -- capital commitment to
community parks and the transportation network.
Conservation Collier budget is the last of the large millages that
the Board levies. This was approved not-to-exceed amount of a
quarter mill by the voters by a substantial margin. That quarter mill
is anticipated to generate $32 million next year; 25 percent of that is
March 14, 2023
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deposited in an escrow, if you will. Not technically an escrow but a
reserve for future maintenance.
In the past they've called it perpetual. It is, in fact, going to last
well beyond 50 years. I'm not sure I would call that perpetual, but
from an accounting standpoint, that could well be within the
definition.
Current management reserves are pretty substantial but
consistent with what's laid out in the ordinance and Board policies.
And other program reserves, Pepper Ranch and Caracara are
true escrows, and those can't be touched. And this -- the last bullet
there is just a sense of an estimate on the burn rate of that reserve.
So we anticipate 50 years pretty comfortably there, and we're not
recommending any changes to the policy or the ordinance in that
regard.
MSTUs, you'll recall that slide with all the millage rates that I
showed you. The bulk of that is made up by these MSTUs. Again,
we approached this from a tax neutral, being some of them just levy
the same tax as last year depending on what the recommendations are
of the Board, their individual advisory boards, and we shoot for tax
neutral or the same tax as the prior year when they don't have. All of
these are subject to whatever changing dynamics might exist in those
areas. Sometimes there's less millage necessary; sometimes there's a
little more.
I mentioned to you earlier the mission critical program
enhancements or expanded requests. Program enhancements are
going to be limited to new capital facility openings, Board-directed
service level adjustments, or historically strained mission critical
imperatives. All budget-to-budget requests will be considered by the
County Manager and discussed as part of our June workshops.
I'll point out the sense of historically strained mission critical
imperatives. The County Manager has directed that where there are
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areas that have been historically underfunded, she wants an
opportunity to review that underfunding and provide her guidance
both to the staff and recommendations to the Board where areas need
to potentially be enhanced for funding.
With that, I'm going to turn it over to Chris, if you don't mind, to
cover a couple more things, and he's going to be quick, and we can
get to a little dialogue. Thank you.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Ed.
This slide here, our General Fund and Unincorporated Area
General Fund guidance for departments this year, we're
recommending an increase of 4.25 percent for our planned operations
for all the departments. This guidance also applies to operations that
rely on transfers from the General Fund or transfers from the
Unincorporated General Fund.
As far as revenue centric budgets go, as Ed had stated before,
our Enterprise Funds, Internal Service Fund, Special Revenue Funds,
and other operating funds supported by fees, they'll be allowed to
establish budgets and conduct operations around revenue centric
guidelines.
Within the general governmental funds, net costs will be
monitored, and any negative fee variance will be adjusted through
corresponding expense cuts, if necessary.
Next slide, please.
And then we get onto our compensation strategy. The
recommended wage adjustment is 5 percent, and that would be a
general wage adjustment for all classifications. We're also
recommending a 1.5 percent merit-based incentive program and a
half a percent for pay-plan maintenance utilized to strengthen certain
lower and strategic classification pay grades that may not be at
market.
Next slide, please.
March 14, 2023
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Healthcare. Healthcare has remained untouched for the past 12
years. At this point in time, we received -- we receive an annual
report from our actuary. And the last two years, we have had our
expenses a little bit above our revenue we were taking in, so we're
recommending a 5 percent wage -- I'm sorry -- a 5 percent increase to
healthcare rates to better align the program revenue and expenses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When's the last time we increased
the rate? Because it sounded like you just --
MR. JOHNSON: Twelve years ago.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Twelve years ago.
MR. JOHNSON: And then, finally, our retirement rates.
Currently, we don't have the information from the state. It usually
comes around May from -- signed by the Governor around May, so
we kind of forecast what we think it's going to be, and we'll provide
the divisions with rates to utilize in the budget instructions.
Typically, we're pretty conservative when it comes to those rates.
And with that, we can take any questions or comments the
Board may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I had two, and one's for
you and maybe one's for Ed, and that is, when I was reviewing this, I
saw -- I saw there was an allotted increase, a 4.75 percent increase.
Is that an increase in budgeted expenditures year over year?
MR. JOHNSON: The 4.25 percent?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Seven five, I thought you
said, in the last slide. It was -- I thought it was 4.75.
MR. JOHNSON: 4.25, yes, yes. That's the operating expenses
for divisions that rely on the General Fund or on Unincorporated
General Fund.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And then my other
question for Ed was we had a workshop in the latter part of February
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that outlined some new priorities that the Board has yet to formally
adopt. And we all had a discussion about really not doing this until
those new policies have, in fact, been adopted and adherence to those
new directions from this board are actually voted on. And so my
question to you is, when are we actually going -- because I'm really
not interested -- I want to make sure that -- because I think
Commissioner LoCastro said it best that we're -- what was presented
in February was 90 percent there with some tweaks from this board to
do this, do don't do that, and so on and so forth. When are we going
to see those?
MR. FINN: You're going to see those very shortly. We
anticipate bringing those to the Board at the next Board meeting.
We met last week with our senior leadership. We went over the
recommendations the Board made to the strategic planning, and we
took -- we took from them a list of their priorities. When we come
back to the Board next -- at the next meeting, we're going to have a
list of those priorities and the sense of what they are.
And when we last met on this subject, the Board had kind of
concurred with staff that what we're looking for is kind of those
top-end priorities, not the ones that feed all the way down through.
The schedule hasn't given us the time to do that and find a way to
make it all work. So instead we're going to come with those top
priorities for Board consideration, and the County Manager's going to
have -- similarly five -- five to 10 of her priorities. Those will
constitute the top end of what we're looking at in terms of
prioritization.
Example is there's two or three items for affordable housing that
are on that list, as you might imagine. Some of the -- initiating the
master planning at Camp Keais and the Hussey property are on that
list, as is some sense of the cell tower coverage in the Estates is on
that list.
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It just seems almost
counterintuitive that we're doing this now and we haven't adopted
those new priorities from the Board.
MR. FINN: I can appreciate that. I will attempt to explain it
this way: The Board's strategic -- core strategic vision/mission are
largely unchanged. The values, while a little more succinct in this
go-round, continue to be values that we, as professionals, have
always tried to embrace here. And, lastly, I will say that kind of
those strategic focus areas and the objectives underneath those, while
they have changed, while they have become a little more concise, I
think they continue to reflect, again, the values and the broad
strategic plan.
The key thing, Commissioner, if I may, is as we develop the
budget, there's going to be a clear view towards what that strategic
plan is when we go through this, particularly -- I know you smiled a
little bit at my kind of buzz word for enhanced funding for existing
services. But the point is that when they bring those forward,
they've already been charged with identifying how that works with
the strategic plan. If they don't do that, they will not even get a look.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I was kind of feeling the
same way, that we're putting the cart before the horse. What I
expected -- and I knew we weren't seeing it today because I saw this
on the agenda, but what I was expecting more to see today was what
we saw in February, one final on it, and then this was the next
presentation, you know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- if we were doing things in order.
I mean, I get what you're saying, but I don't want to marginalize what
are on those slides. It might be, you know, some words in a triangle
in a few shaded areas and then, you know, a bunch of bullets, but
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that's what really drives the budget. And so it might be semantics
but, realistically, it seems like we're jumping around a little bit and
we're saying, well, in the end, it all sort of ends out in the wash. So
the slides you saw in February are pretty and nice and they changed
in some places, they didn't in others, but then we're, you know,
charging forward on this one.
You know, like I said, it might not be a show stopper, but that's
not the way I'm usually used to seeing it. Usually you do sort of the
triangle and the shading slides first. Then you talk dollars and cents.
So I could appreciate what you're saying, trying not to slow
down the process, but...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just don't want to -- forgive
me, Mr. Chair. I'll hit the light.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- there again, the
reason that we were doing what we were doing was to be able to have
those disseminated to the departments as well and then have review
of those budgets that come back from those departments with their
adherence to -- or consideration for those new priorities established.
MR. FINN: The Chair and the Board can be assured that those
things will happen. You can be assured that the draft that we
updated with the Board's direction is, in fact, in the book behind me
that I brought up here and looked through it, because I knew this was
going to be a subject of discussion. We are moving forward with
that.
The key to it is going to be the reporting back and achieving the
goals within the budget that help us achieve the strategic plan,
whether it's a pyramid or some other diagram that we use.
Ultimately, the strategic plan, largely as the Board has provided a
recommendation, is going to be within a few percent of what we
discussed the other day. That is, in fact, what staff is going to be
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focusing on when they do this budget.
And we met last Thursday with the entire executive team to go
over two things: Strategic plan first, because they had only seen it as
audience members when we met with the Board. We went over that
with them, told them how important it was and how important the
follow-through was with that and then, secondarily, we went over the
budget policy with them as well.
So your executive team is, in fact, prepared to carry that -- carry
that mission out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why do you think we didn't raise
healthcare costs for 12 years and then all of a sudden here in Year 13
it's 5 percent? And, you know, 5 percent's not 20 percent, but one of
the things that just gets me is taking great pride in something that you
sort of keep neutral. And you know, oh, we didn't raise anything,
and then all of a sudden, you know, 13 years later, it's like, oh, we
need 5 percent.
You know, that's real money. And, you know, a more gradual
approach, and especially we know how much healthcare has changed
over the last 12 years. I'm just flabbergasted that that was never
bumped in a smaller increment, maybe, you know, one or two times,
and so that the effect is more easily absorbed, and also more smartly
budgeted. I mean, I don't know if you've got the seniority of years
here, but, I mean, why was it, do you think, never adjusted, especially
when healthcare has changed so much in the last 12 years and then
now all of a sudden, you know, we figured out in Year 13th, oh, we
need an extra 5 percent?
MR. FINN: To a great extent, we're victims of our own
success. When these rates were established, the wellness program
was very early. They were just starting it. They made very
cautious assumptions about the savings that would materialize from
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that program and, as a result, the rates were established at that point
in time somewhat higher than they ultimately needed to be.
Because that took place, it allowed the reserves that need to be
currently in the $20 million range to reach a $40 million range in that
program, which is fine but for a 4 or -- I'm sorry -- a $6 million
shortfall, revenue over expenses, the last two years, and our actuary
having told us for the last three years that we will eventually be
under-reserve relative to statute and what's required. If we were to
continue down that path, we would have a 33 percent increase to
re-establish our reserves in four years.
So your current staff is recognizing a couple things. We're
recognizing that we probably should -- an alternate way to do this is
to manage it every year, and when the actuary provides his or her
report, that we look at it and we evaluate it and we make, perhaps,
smaller incremental adjustments, and that's going to be our direction
going forward.
I'll go on for another moment and tell you that the average
inflation in the program, healthcare cost inflation, has averaged
3 percent over the last 10 years, and that's what he's projecting
forward is 3 percent. So while we're looking at a 5 percent, which is
really kind of nominal, 3 percent of that is eaten up with cost inflation
before we even adjust kind of the corpus of what we're trying to do.
So, Commissioner, that's actually an astute question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But over the last 12 years,
certainly, in some of those years, probably all of those years, it went
up. We stayed neutral, so then we were basically -- you know, that's
not a smart way to budget. We were losing, and now all of a sudden
we're playing a little bit of catch-up, right?
MR. FINN: We're still fine. We're still ahead on the reserve
basis. And I won't say it was wrong --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
March 14, 2023
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MR. FINN: -- because there were substantial reserves. I
think -- I think the stone simple argument is, is you have 40 million
in reserves and you only need 20, you probably should allow some of
it to ease back down to where it should be.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I gotcha.
MR. FINN: The difficulty is the size of the delta between
revenue and expense had grown to the point where it was -- was it 6,
Chris? It was $6 million one year. So it was -- at that level the
difference between 39 million and 20 shrinks to just a few years. So
that's the concern.
It's entirely possible that these things may moderate, because
they do come and go. We may come back and ask for 5 percent
again next year or perhaps just an inflationary adjustment, or it could
well be 10 percent. It's a pretty dynamic situation, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And that's what I
heard when he was talking about the inception of the program was
very conservatively budgeted for and allowed for an accumulation of
reserves, and they've allowed for those reserves to bleed off a little
bit. So this is the beginning of your suggestion of incrementally
increasing the expenses to true up with what's actually, in fact, going
on.
MR. FINN: As a budget guy, there's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: A little more balanced approach is
sort of a smarter way, but --
MR. FINN: The first thing I probably shouldn't say is, if I
could round off to the nearest hundred thousand in everything, I'd be
perfectly happy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders
has got a comment.
MR. FINN: And the other thing is smooth changes to the
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budget are always better.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I think the -- sort of the 800-pound gorilla in the room whenever
we're dealing with budgeting is what millage rate are we going to use.
And I just want to kind of set the tone for going forward.
Obviously, the details, like the 5 percent we were just talking
about, those details need to be hashed out, but I think the ultimate
question that the Board's going to have to deal with is what millage
rate are we going to set. And it's always good to lower taxes, and
lowering the millage rate to the rolled-back millage rate when this
comes up is, you know, sort of the easy way to be able to tell our
constituents we've lowered taxes.
There was an effort last year to lower the millage rate to the
rolled-back millage rate. Commissioner McDaniel was supportive
of that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I still am.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was not a supportive of it,
and I used the Hurricane Irma situation as an example where you just
don't know what's going to happen. And because we had maintained
that millage rate when Hurricane Irma came through, we had the
resources to respond very effectively. We had the resources to do
the pickup of all of the debris, to do the things that were necessary
because of that.
Lo and behold two weeks later, after we had our budget hearings
in September of last year, we had Hurricane Ian, and we were in great
shape to deal with Hurricane Ian.
And so the point is that you just never know. You might have a
feeling that we have some extra money that we could give back to the
taxpayers, and everybody wants to do that, but you just have to be
prepared for the unknown.
March 14, 2023
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So I just wanted to lay that foundation for a rationale for
maintaining the millage rate. That's going to be the biggest policy
issue we're going to have to make. Staff will then -- whatever
budget millage rate we pick, the staff will build a budget around that.
But the details of that budget we can always change at any
commission meeting. It's the millage rate that once it's set can't be
changed.
So I just wanted to lay that -- you know, that little foundation
there. Obviously we need to look -- really dig into what projects are
a priority, what expenditures are a priority. But driving the whole
bus here is going to be the millage rate.
I would like to ask staff just a couple quick questions,
Mr. Chairman, if I might. We have a millage rate -- and this would
be for Mr. Finn. We have a millage rate that is, I believe,
somewhere around 3.84 that was set last year. How does our
millage rate compare with other communities? And I realize that
taxable value is really important, not just the millage rate. But I'm
just curious in terms of actual millage rates how we compare to other
counties, Mr. Finn, if you have that information or that --
MR. FINN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. When we talk about the pure
millage rate, the absolute number that we use, we're going to be
among the lowest -- lowest in the state. I will say there is, of course,
another side to that, sir, and I hesitate to say, but the flip side of that
is our taxable value is high, which allows us to --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, I understand, I
understand, and I had mentioned that it's -- you know, the taxable
value drives everything as well.
In terms of last year, just -- and I think the numbers will
probably be very similar this year. Last year if we went to the
rolled-back millage, what would have been the average savings in
terms of taxes for our average homesteaded property owners? Do
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you recall what that is?
MR. FINN: I'm going to say it was probably in the 40 to $60
range per year for a homestead. It's kind of modest. Homestead
properties, sir, are, of course, limited to their increase by a 3 percent
Save Our Homes amount. So if you're in a homestead property,
even if taxable value goes up 10 percent, you're only going to get a
3 percent adjustment. For those properties that are not homesteaded,
that limitation -- a similar limitation applies. That is at 10 percent.
That does not apply to the school board. The school board
represents 50 percent of the tax burden. So it still impacts the
non-homestead properties. But relative to what the county's able to
levy, that is, in fact, limited to 10 percent for those properties.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And then, Mr. Chair
and members, the other smaller gorilla in the room, if you will, is the
Conservation Collier Program. That was approved by 76 percent of
the voters. It's set at a maximum tax rate of .25 mills.
Commissioner McDaniel last year had suggested the possibility of
reducing that and using that savings as a way to reduce the millage
rate. And that will -- I'm sure that will come up again this year. But
I would urge the Commission to not reduce the millage rate for
Conservation Collier. I think down the road, five years, 10 years, 20
years from now that program will be incredibly important in
protecting the quality of life for future generations of residents in
Collier County.
So I would urge the Board just to, just for your thinking
purposes going forward, maintain the Conservation Collier millage
rate at .25, maintain the current neutral millage rate as a budget
policy, and then let's work on what are we going to spend those funds
on as priorities.
Mr. Chairman, those are just my comments for this -- for this
day. Thank you.
March 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair. Actually,
Commissioner Saunders kind of addressed the question I was going
to have for the Deputy Manager, because I was just curious if, you
know, we can adopt -- when we go into the workshops, if we can
adopt these roll-back rates as a line-by-line item to look at and revisit.
And, you know, I was thinking the roll-back rate actually
projects an estimate of what you're going to bring in, so -- and I'm not
saying Conservation Collier, but that was the one that jumped at me.
And, you know, if you look at -- 2.1 was the recommended roll-back
rate, but we've been running at the top, 2.5, which was the top set that
we were allowed to go to, you know, the last couple of budget years.
So I'm not saying particularly that one, but it just kind of stuck
out, you know, that projectedly (phonetic) it's going to make the same
amount of money at 2.1 that it would like it did the year before at 2.5
just because of the value of properties it's collecting from, at value
property.
So that was just kind of one that stuck out that, you know, I
thought in the workshop or something if we could -- I didn't even
know if we could do it or not do it line by line, but I guess that was
my question, and it was answered, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're not voting on this
today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No.
MR. FINN: Well, what we're going to do is we're going to
adopt the policy and allow staff to move forward. We're going to
bring back a strategic plan to you the next meeting.
I am going to say, Chris just briefed you on the status of the
Hurricane Ian funding. The total amount of General Fund money
that's wrapped up with Hurricane Ian cash flow right now with that
budget amendment is $48 million. We had established a substantial
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reserve in Fund 301 last year. That reserve with this change that the
Board approved, that entire reserve is now tied up in Hurricane Ian
cash flow.
So as we move forward, the timing of those reimbursements
from FEMA and from insurance are unknown. So we probably need
to consider going forward with this millage neutral at this point in
part to allow us some flexibility to restore those reserves until we get
reimbursed. And, ultimately, one of the things that we first looked at
was the schedule.
The Board -- the Board is going to have an opportunity to weigh
in in a big way in June on budget when we come back to you with the
day of workshops. Then in July, when the Board adopts that
maximum millage rate, they have another opportunity to look at it
and then, ultimately, we have the two meetings in September that the
Board can still adjust -- preferably the first one to allow us a little
time to kind of straighten all the changes out. But if the Board so
determines, they can make an adjustment in the first meeting in
September or potentially the second meeting in September.
So there are several opportunities for the Board to look at this
budget in many different ways, weigh the options, weigh the actual
taxable value numbers, because right now we're all making good
educated guesses; but that's what they are, they're just guesses. And
we don't, ultimately, know the impact of Hurricane Ian damage on
our taxable values.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So alls we're deciding, though,
today was what it says here, establishing a deadline of 1 May, right,
for budget submittals?
MR. FINN: Yes, sir. There's a resolution attached that the
Board is also being asking to be approved. That's consistent with
past practice.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. But all the proposals on
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your slides here aren't things that we're voting on now, millage rates
and things like that, correct?
MR. FINN: What you'd be saying is the policy the Board is
adopting are these numbers, and that will be the basis on which the
County Manager's agency and the constitutionals are moving forward
with theirs budgets. I've met with all the constitutionals, and I've
advised them of the key aspects in this policy that impact them, and
they're all supportive of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. It just is -- I feel like
we're putting the cart in front of the horse.
You're coming to us with these -- with these appropriations now
in advance of -- to establish a budget telling us we're going to have
multiple -- and I'm not picking on you. I'm just talking.
I feel this is premature. This isn't -- this isn't how we've ever
done it in my six years so far. We have -- the budget initiatives
come out. We have discussions. We have a workshop in May.
We go through those things.
MR. FINN: The workshops are historically in June.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
MR. FINN: And the way we've historically done it is the
budget policy's adopted in February/March. The County Manager's
staff and the constitutionals march forward with that.
In this case, the Board is actually going to get half a -- half
another bite at it when we bring the strategic plan to you in two
weeks, and they will, in fact, identify probably a number of the
projects that we've kind of pre-identified in our planning at this
juncture. So we've been planning now for this budget consistent
with the outline or the skeleton of the strategic plan. We've been
planning on this three months now. So this is -- this is not just
coming to you blind.
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I hope you didn't take what I
was saying as offensive.
MR. FINN: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I never once said you're
coming to me blind at all.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I said very specifically I feel
like we have the cart in front of the horse. This is establishing a
head nod from this board that you're not getting from me about
staying rate neutral. This is a head nod from the Board about a
4.25 percent increase year over year that you're not getting from me.
This is -- this is -- there are -- this is frustrating for me at this
stage because this lays a path so that we can all go in September -- or
in July and say we're going to stay rate neutral and not raise
anybody's taxes.
MR. FINN: There is -- if I may, if I may, there's nothing in this
planning document that is inconsistent with the previous or the
going-forward strategic plan. I think the strategic planning that the
Board has reinitiated is going to result in a better program overall. I
think it's going to ensure a greater accountability to the County
Manager's agency. It's going to give the Board a report card on how
we're doing, and the trick is to obtain the Board's guidance on the
specifics of that so that we actually achieve what we're trying to
achieve through the strategic plan.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I need to -- I need to -- because
I'm new, I need to fly up about 50 more miles and look at this bigger.
So what you're saying is, if I'm hearing you right, you want us to
adopt a policy that has certain millage rates in it for the
constitutionals to do their budgets by May the 1st. What is the
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flexibility that this board has after that?
MR. FINN: Yes, sir. Relative to the budgets directly under
you, you have 100 percent flexibility to adjust the budget as you see
fit. The constitutional officers, you can ask them to adjust their
budget, but at the end of the day, you don't have much flexibility over
them, particularly the fee officers, the Property Appraiser and the Tax
Collector. Their budgets are established at the state level. They
collect fees for the collection of taxes, not just from us but from the
other jurisdictions. So there's limited flexibility over them.
The Sheriff has never done it, but the Sheriff, ultimately, if
there's a big disagreement about the budgets being allocated to him,
he can appeal to the state, to the Governor. Sheriff Rambosk has
never done so. But in the distant, distant past it had occurred.
But having said that, the budgets under the Board's control are
just that, they are under the Board's control, and they are quite
substantial. The Sheriff is a good steward of his money as are the
other constitutional officers. And if there is a significant
philosophical difference, I am sure that there will be a middle ground
to reach with each and every one of them.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. I say that with concern,
because I've never seen a government that didn't love money, and I
would like to see Collier County consider that greatly; that just
because you can get more doesn't mean that you need more or that
you -- just because you want more doesn't mean that you have to
have more.
So what we're deciding on right now with this agenda item,
we're just -- it's a policy that says, we're going to set -- we're going to
allow these -- the same millage rate or consider the roll-back millage
rate for others to do their budget. Am I correct in that?
MR. FINN: Yes. At this moment we're saying the
combination of the same millage rate as last year --
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COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
MR. FINN: -- and the nominal taxable value can be built into
the budget, and the Board, as I mentioned, has three or four different
opportunities to make adjustments to that when they can better see
the outcome in the budget documents that we present to you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay, thanks.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, may I jump
in for just a quick second?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Finn, I think that it
might be -- and this may be for the County Attorney. It might be
helpful just so the Board knows what voting requirements there are
for the various millage rates that we would set.
To go back to the rolled-back millage rate, I believe just requires
a simple majority vote. To go to a higher millage rate higher than
the rolled-back millage rate under certain circumstances requires a
supermajority vote.
If the Board -- if it's clear that the Board it going to go to a
rolled-back millage rate or if there's some question about that -- and I
think there always is -- staff should be developing two budgets, one
that reflects where we would be at the stable millage rate and one
where we would be at a rolled-back millage rate so the Board has
information as to what the impacts are. So I think I would ask the
County Attorney, Mr. Klatzkow, what are the voting requirements for
various levels of millage rates for us going forward, so at least the
Board has that information?
MR. KLATZKOW: The rolled-back rate or lower is simple
majority. If you go above the rolled-back up to 10 percent, I believe
that's the figure, you need four votes. If you're going to go above 10
percent, which we never do, it would be five votes. It would have to
be unanimous. In other words, you just need two commissioners to
March 14, 2023
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say no to anything above the rolled-back rate, and that's the end of it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. And I think the
only thing I would say to Commissioner Hall is, I think we all share
the desire to make sure that there is no waste in our government.
And, quite frankly, I've seen a lot of different counties and cities and
their budgeting, and I think we do a pretty good job here in Collier
County, and what shows is that we have a really high quality of life.
In terms of the Sheriff's budget, none of us are going to say no to the
Sheriff. I think, Commissioner McDaniel, you had said, if he
wanted a second Huey helicopter, you'd be the first one to make the
motion to do it --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Get two.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- because we know how
important public safety and law enforcement is.
And so just -- I just want everyone to keep that in mind going
forward. If two or more commissioners want to go to the
rolled-back millage rate, that's where we wind up being because it
takes a supermajority to go above that.
And, you know, I look forward to maintaining just an incredibly
high quality of life. You know, our medians, the public safety, our
EMS services, we're second to none in the state. Now, that costs
money. Nothing's an accident. And I just want the Board to be
aware of that, and that if we go to the rolled-back millage rate, that's
fine. We can at that point, you know, boast that we've lowered
taxes, and that's a great thing to do. But there is a cost, and I'd just
suggest that staff be prepared for that going forward, that they
prepare a budget that reflects where we would be with a rolled-back
millage rate.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on that note, we're going
to have more information when we get the proposed values that come
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in June. I think I saw that -- you're throwing a dart at 5.75 taxable
value; that's a -- maybe not proper terminology, but your good
guesstimate is 5.75 increase in taxable value, and that's equated into
this budget process. We have been conservative in that estimate
in -- several times in the past. And so once we have -- once we have
that information, I think that we'll all be better suited to
actually -- actually have an opinion.
I like Commissioner Saunders' idea of necessarily two budgets
just so we have a comparison as to what your suggestions are with
regard to should the Board choose to roll back so we can -- we know
where those -- where those cost centers are, in fact, going to end up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What I don't like about this is I feel
like -- I understand we're approving the resolution for the -- and we're
approving the policy, but I think by doing that, we're giving the
impression that we're leaning forward with everything that's on here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, I understand we have
opportunities to make changes when we see sort of more solidified
numbers and things like that, but I think we start to look stupid if we
sit here and go, yeah, this is exactly the policy we want to approve.
We know we can make a bunch of changes later. And I don't want
to artificially slow down the process for the county staff but, you
know, I sit here and say, okay, I'll go on record in saying I'm
approving this policy, or I would make a motion -- I'm not making a
motion, but I would approve it, but with the stipulation that I don't
want to give the impression that I'm leaning forward and agreeing
with all 33 of these slides. And when you sort of approve the policy,
it means you kind of are doing that, and that's why I think we're sort
of doing this prematurely.
Maybe it's not a huge show stopper. I don't know if my
colleagues, you know, feel it is. I'm sort of on the fence, and I think,
March 14, 2023
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you know, when we vote on this, it should be something that's
unanimous that we all are in agreement on. If we've sort of got a
split vote, then I think that's where we take a time-out and say, look,
you know, this is extremely critical and important. We're either all
in lockstep and agree, or if somebody has some reservations, then
that gives us a chance to pause that we don't -- we don't lean too far
forward prematurely or, like I said, give the impression to the citizens
that this is -- this has our full support. I think this still needs to be
washed out a bit.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you brought up a really
good point, and it is the further down the road we go, the harder it is
to make the adjustments, number one. Number two, when I, as
Commissioner Saunders pointed out, last year was lobbying for a roll
back or a rate reduction at large, total, that -- one of the questions that
I asked was, in the budget initiatives and the budget policy that we
put out last year, what the year-over-year rate increase and
expenditures was allotted by this board and, if I recall, it was
1 percent.
MR. FINN: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And if I recall your answer,
no one really adhered to that budget policy that came out. It might
have been one or two departments, necessarily, but there was quite a
few who did not. So I just -- I want to call special attention to the
four and a quarter percent that you're recommending be adhered to
and that we pay very, very close attention to that, because -- I'm
stuttering right now, Terri, so don't write that down.
MR. FINN: If I may, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't want it -- I don't want
it to come out disparagingly with our staff at all because, as
Commissioner Saunders said, we all enjoy an extremely high quality
March 14, 2023
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of life. We live in one of the best counties if not the best county in
the entire state of Florida. But on the same token, I have always
found it prudent to snatch the belt while times are good, and we never
have done that, not while I've been here.
MR. FINN: What I heard from Commissioner Saunders, and I
think it's largely echoed by the balance of the Board, is they want a
sense of what the delta is between where we are and where we end up
with these -- with this -- if there is an increase, and we're going to do
that. We're going to identify that as we go through the budget so
that the Board is advised of that right from the get-go.
It is my hope that if there are those dollars -- and some of them
might well be the dollars we're talking about now -- that those are
earmarked for programs that we can all agree to, and that may well be
restoring your capital reserve in the short-term and/or particular
capital initiatives. Typically -- and if we think back to last year, we
did have a substantial increase in taxable value, and it was
substantially higher than we had anticipated. We had an extensive
debate on that, and Board -- staff was able to communicate to the
Board where that money was going, and it was largely one-time
capital to a great extent, and it was capital reserve -- a substantial
amount went to that capital reserve that we subsequently needed
desperately for the hurricane response.
So in the event that that happens again, the Board is going to see
where that money's going, and they will have an opportunity to
decide whether those additional dollars should go where staff
suggested, an alternate place where the Board suggests putting them
or, in the extreme, if the Board wants to reduce that millage and not
even take that money in; those options are all available to the Board
as we move forward.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you brought up that
point because, there again, early on, we didn't even have a capital
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asset replacement and maintenance fund. We do now. And so that
is extremely prudent budgeting for municipalities to be utilizing.
We're seeing that in other areas throughout our community where
there is deficits in those regards. They're not appropriating for the
necessary capital asset replacement and maintenance of the assets
that they, in fact, have.
So it will be interesting to see those actual numbers, because
I -- if I recall -- I don't remember what we ended up putting into that
actual line item last year. Do you?
MR. FINN: Yes. It was in excess of $17 million.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Close to 17 million. And if I
recall previous discussions, actually, a real number for maintenance
of the revenues for upkeep, ultimate replacement and such, is
between 23- and 24- is the --
MR. FINN: Ballpark.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- actual number that needs to
be there.
MR. FINN: All of that, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If I might just raise one other
issue with Mr. Finn, and this may be a question also for the County
Attorney.
We are not able to use sales tax revenue and impact
fees -- transportation impact fees for improvements at our
intersections. And I've spoken to Trinity Scott several times about
moving up some of the intersection projects on Pine Ridge Road.
Those projects have to be done prior to improvements of intersections
on Immokalee Road, and Ms. Scott can explain that.
And so just -- I want to -- I want staff to provide us information
in terms of how much revenue or how much money from our General
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Fund we are going to be able to utilize for really critical intersection
improvements on Pine Ridge Road and Immokalee Road and what
the impacts would be if we were not able to use some of those
General Fund revenues for that.
I don't know if Ms. Scott is in the audience, but perhaps she
could comment on that, and perhaps Mr. Finn could as well. Again,
just for information for the Board, because whatever millage rate we
set, there are impacts to it. And transportation is probably the
biggest problem that we have in the county. And those intersection
improvements on Pine Ridge and Immokalee Road are just absolutely
critical to move forward more quickly. And I would like to have
staff, if they would, provide just a little bit information about that.
MR. FINN: I will speak broadly to that, sir. In broad terms,
those kind of infill improvements to intersections to decel lanes are,
in fact, supported largely by transfer from General Fund. That is the
primary source that's used for those type of improvements. And in
the situation you were talking about, we have, in fact, had that
discussion that some of -- some of our capital funding being
transferred from the General Fund will, in fact, be used for those kind
of important -- important improvements that actually keep the traffic
moving in areas that are built out and/or are constrained in some way.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall. Oh, I'm
sorry.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Commissioner
Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. And, again, I'm not
suggesting that we maintain the neutral millage at this hearing, and
we're not doing that. We're simply directing staff to come back in
the future with budget proposals. Nothing that we do is cast in iron.
But I just wanted the Board to look at the -- as Commissioner
March 14, 2023
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Hall was saying, you know, get up to, you know, 50,000 feet and
look down so we understand what all of the impacts are, regardless of
what we do, and that's the purpose of my asking these questions. If
we go back to the rolled-back millage rate, I'm fine with that. And if
we don't go back to the rolled-back millage rate, I'm fine with that, as
well as long as we are doing things that are just really essential for
the future of the county.
Thank you -- thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So regarding Chairman LoCastro's
comments about if we approve this budget policy, it doesn't
necessarily mean that we are agreeing with everything within there.
As long as -- that was my flexibility question. That was what I was
implying. He did a better job of saying it. But I just didn't want to
have the feeling that my feet were held to the fire with the stuff that's
within here. And, you know, to have the capital and to have the
reserves is -- that's, you know -- and to maintain the quality of life,
that's all a given. I'm not saying that I want to take anything of that
away, and to say that the thoughts and the considerations that staff
has put into this, I can appreciate. I just want you to hear my heart
about being a good steward of the people's money, and so I'm
finished.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any other questions or anything?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Make a motion for approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion for
approval. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion for
approval and a second. All in favor?
March 14, 2023
Page 149
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. FINN: Thank you very much. Greatly appreciate that. I
appreciate your time and your thoughtfulness on this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But you're leaving here with lots of
homework assignments and a little bit of uncertainty from all five of
us. I'll add that at the end.
MR. FINN: I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Let's see. What's next on our agenda?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, we're going to
11F?
Item #11F
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (“RFP”) NO. 21-7919-ST,
“CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK (“CMAR”) FOR
COLLIER COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY,” TO
DEANGELIS DIAMOND CONSTRUCTION LLC, FOR PRE-
CONSTRUCTION SERVICES IN THE AMOUNT OF $207,965.00,
AND A FEE OF FOUR-POINT SEVEN FIVE PERCENT (4.75%)
OF THE FUTURE TO BE DETERMINED GUARANTEED
MAXIMUM PRICE (“GMP”) PROPOSAL FOR CONSTRUCTION
SERVICES - MOTION TO APPROVE THE PRE-
CONSTRUCTION ONLY BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL – FAILED
March 14, 2023
Page 150
(COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO, COMMISSIONER KOWAL
AND COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS OPPOSED); MOTION TO
APPROVE AS PRESENTED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – APPROVED
(COMMISSIONER HALL AND COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL
OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11F. This item was continued from
the September 13th, 2022, BCC meeting. This is a recommendation
to award Request For Proposal No. 21-7919-ST, Construction
Manager at Risk, for Collier County Mental Health Facility to
DeAngelis Diamond Construction, LLC, for preconstruction services
in the amount $207,965, and a fee of 4.75 percent of the future
to-be-determined guaranteed maximum price proposal for
construction services.
Mr. Ed Finn, your Deputy County Manager, is here to answer
questions or present.
MR. FINN: Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate that.
This is a -- this slide provides a little bit of a timeline. The
surtax committee approved this concept for the mental health facility
back in June of '21. We started the solicitation for design in August
of '21, and we've had that design -- the architecture in place since
they pretty much awarded in March of '22, and they've been working
on the project doing the programming.
In September, the construction manager contract was solicited.
DeAngelis Diamond was ranked number one, and that was approved
by the Board in November of '21.
At this point, DeAngelis Diamond is the recommended
contractor, and we're hoping to award that today. The construction
award, which actually takes place when we bring back to you an
amendment with the guaranteed maximum price, will be done at a
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future date.
In your contract documents there's -- much of the contract
documents attached deal with that future guaranteed maximum price.
There's an entire set of forms that are necessary to fill out there, and
among those forms will be liquidated damages if they are late.
A little bit of the considerations here, the -- what we're here
really talking about today is bringing DeAngelis Diamond on board
here to do preconstruction services for the contract --
And maybe let's just do it this way, Troy.
So the project is a high-profile, unique, and important
community priority project, and it was approved by the voters, as we
all know, when the infrastructure surtax was originally approved.
The project delivery team for the behavioral health center is
recommending that we use this particular mechanism to go forward,
the Construction Manager at Risk delivery method.
The recommendation is based on the project's relative
complexity, the high level of community interest, and the volatility
that exists in the construction industry.
The construction manager: DeAngelis Diamond is a Naples
firm, been in business since 1996. They have extensive experience
constructing the very kind of behavioral center that we're going to
construct. They have successfully worked on prior Collier County
projects, they're a well-known local firm, and they've submitted
several bids here recently on high -- other high-profile projects.
The delivery method, there's a lot of discussion about this
delivery method. Construction Manager at Risk is the method. The
manager, construction manager, provides preconstruction services
that I noted a moment ago. The construction manager is going to be
required to engage and consult during the planning and design phase.
During that phase, they're responsible for providing guidance
and input on budget, schedule, constructability, staging, materials, et
March 14, 2023
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cetera. This early collaboration helps inform the design solution. It
improves contractability; that is when we ultimately go to move to
contract through the guaranteed maximum price process, that will be
a little bit smoother. That will minimize errors. It controls costs
through early -- early cost analysis, and helps ensure the ultimate
success of the project.
The CMAR process is an open-book process. The owner has
access to all of the information regarding subcontracts, line items,
and costs. During bidding and construction, the owner retains the
ability to have multiple subcontractors bid on the project, and the
contract -- the owner actually signs off on the low bid that's selected.
Ultimately, this method provides a guaranteed maximum price
for the project, and the construction manager assumes the risk to
bring that project in on schedule and on budget once that guaranteed
price is established.
When that guarantee price is established, there will also be
liquidated damages established. Liquidated damages
typically -- typically start if they don't achieve the substantial
completion date. And then there's also a phase between substantial
and final completion where liquidated damages apply, typically, at a
slightly lower rate.
In any event, at this point we're asking the Board to approve this
contract, preconstruction services. The Board will get another
opportunity to review this guaranteed maximum price. This
contracting mechanism has been discussed at length with the Clerk.
The Clerk has some reservations, but she is willing to allow us to
move forward with this without any major, major objections. The
firm being selected is -- as I said, is a well-respected firm.
In preparation for coming before you today, I asked
Mr. DeAngelis to come in and visit with the delivery team, which he
did. He is committed to this project. He's well respected in the
March 14, 2023
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community. And if he tells me that he is going to do everything
possible to make this go smooth, I believe him.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is a -- you and I had this
discussion yesterday, so this isn't a surprise to you. This is
counterintuitive to me. I bought into your thought processes with
regard to the engagement of DeAngelis Diamond.
And while I'm talking, I want it to be very clear that I never
argued about the necessity or the need for a central receiving facility,
never. I was, obviously, not happy with the decision that was made
to where it was located, but that has nothing to do with this. Truly,
we need to have -- you know, our Sheriff even said the central
receiving facility is requisite to the health of -- mental health of our
community.
My question is -- I don't like liquidated damages as a recourse
for a Construction Manager at Risk, number one. Number two, if
we're engaging DeAngelis Diamond, which I agree is a very
reputable firm and does an amazing job for our community, has
forever, why don't we just engage them for the preconstruction for
the 207,000 or so, and then once you come up with the TPC, total
project cost, for the entire development, then negotiate the
Construction Manager at Risk portion of this contract with them and
us then, or do we have to go back out for bid because we're changing
the rules of what we put out in the RFP?
MR. FINN: Two things. First is the Board will, in fact, see
that guaranteed maximum price either way. They will at that point
have a choice -- not one that I would probably recommend, but there
is the option to move in a different direction at that point in time.
The rate -- the fee charged by the construction manager was
negotiated based on the project. I can't tell you what the impact is
on procurement. I think that the Board right now has a pretty
March 14, 2023
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flexible situation.
We could well get to the end of this process. The Board may
elect to not go with the Construction Manager at Risk at the end of
the day. We don't advocate this. It's not an efficient way to do it,
but we could turn it around and turn it into a hard bid at some point in
the future.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Henceforth, why don't we
just engage them for their construction expertise as a preconstruction
manager for now to engage with our architect and engineers and so
ons and so forth, and then negotiate the balance of the contract
Construction Manager at Risk once we have a TPC?
And, again, I'm just asking that question, because we don't have
a total project cost yet, and, you know, the estimates that have flown
around have been from the 25 million that we have available up to
32-, 35 million in total project costs. And at 4.75, that's another
1.6 million in expense associated for a Construction Manager at Risk
who really only has liquidated damages if they don't stay within the
bounds of a to-be-determined TPC.
So let's -- my thoughts are, rather than engaging them in entirety
and/or adjusting, let's just engage them for what we know. Which
we know they're good at doing value engineering and assisting with
the determination of the final preconstruction -- or the final cost of
the project, engage them for that for the fee that's associated here, and
leave the manager at risk portion for a later discussion should the
Board then decide that we don't want to do a Construction Manager
at Risk. We want to hire a contractor and go forward, or maybe we
want to make an adjustment in the Construction Manager at Risk
because I -- the way I look at it is if we can incentivize somebody to
save the taxpayers money and we save the taxpayers money, they
deserve to be compensated for that at the same time, as opposed to
just a fee associated with the TPC and bringing it in, theoretically,
March 14, 2023
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within a scope of time that's allotted per that contract. That
contract -- did you -- have you read that contract?
MR. FINN: I've looked through it. That is -- that is a recently
revised contract for Construction Manager at Risk. That is a
different contract than the one we've been working under here for the
last five years.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir. And it's still -- it
was still disconcerting for me to read it because, at the end of the
day -- I mean, I've got it right here. There's no penalties for lack of
production other than liquidated damages on a yet-to-be-determined
contract price and a yet-to-be-determined timeline, and no incentives
for coming in under timeline or budget.
MR. FINN: Well, I will tell you the hard bids are not
necessarily always good either. Hard bids you don't really know
what it's going to cost you. They kind of give you a sense of
what -- the least it's going to cost you, and oftentimes it costs you
more. It costs you more in terms of time, and sometimes you end up
with an unqualified contractor. Big Corkscrew Swamp Island is an
example where we're having considerable difficulties with a low-bid
contractor.
So there's no panacea that solves this; rather the lessons we've
learned from our last couple of go-rounds with CMARs are we need
to make sure that the delivery team is fully committed to maintaining
the same staffing on the job from cradle to grave, as we say. The
same on our side, we shoot for cradle-to-grave project management
on it. We've learned a number of lessons, and we are intent on
implementing them in this case and making this both a successful
contract mechanism as well as a successful project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Henceforth, I'm not happy
with the second half of it. The first half I totally agree with
everything that you said, that their reputation far precedes them, their
March 14, 2023
Page 156
qualifications and such are there, engaging them early in the infancy
for the value engineering aspect will help bring in that TPC to a far
more palatable amount, hopefully.
But if it -- I'm one of five, but if it were me, I'd set aside the
balance of the CMAR portion of it until we have a TPC and move
forward on that regard.
MR. FINN: Very good.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders was lit up,
but I don't know if he reconsidered. Did he drop off or --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, I just -- I didn't really
have any comments. I thought I might, but I'm good with going
forward with the staff recommendation or going forward with what
Commissioner McDaniel said, as long as we're moving the project
along. So whatever the pleasure of the Board is, I'm okay with it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's the negative of doing it the
way Commissioner McDaniels [sic] is recommending? Because I
like what I hear, taking this in a smaller bite of the apple.
MR. FINN: Let me tell you what I think I'm hearing. We
want -- we want to engage the construction manager. We certainly
want to engage him for the preconstruction services. We would like
to, essentially, hold in abeyance negotiating the fee and the
Construction Manager at Risk component until we have a guaranteed
price in front of us.
I don't know exactly whether we're trying to negotiate down the
actual 4.75 fee itself, or we just don't want to send a signal that we're
committed to a Construction Manager at Risk job.
So you asked me what the downside is. Well, we need to go
back to the drawing board and negotiate. We'd have to modify the
contract to just hone in on the -- on the preconstruction services.
And the contractor may be agreeable to that; they may not. If the
Board directs us to do so, we will engage.
March 14, 2023
Page 157
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and that was
my -- beginning of this was this -- all of this starts with a process, and
we come up with an RFI to an RFP to an RFQ. Pick your RF that
we're going to use.
MR. FINN: Lots of letters involved.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Commissioner Solis used to
use the -- you know, we're in an AFZ, acronym free zone.
But irrespective of that, we put this out. DeAngelis Diamond
was selected out of, I presume, a group of contractors. Would we
have to rebid if we were to amend this to just to do the
preconstruction aspect? Will we have to go back out?
MR. FINN: I cannot answer that standing here. I don't know.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd like to know that. I'd
prefer -- if it were me -- and, again, I don't want to upset the apple
cart. You know, like Commissioner Saunders said, I don't -- I'm
already being perceived as not in favor of it. It's not that I'm not in
favor of the central receiving area or facility. It's just the aspects of
this are I'm entering into a contract that I'm paying for
preconstruction services and a fee on a to-be-determined construction
price where my only -- my only resource is liquidated damages which
means what, County Attorney? Litigation.
So I would prefer we engage for the preconstruction, set the
balance of it aside, come in with the other -- come in with the balance
of the needs at a later date.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Make that motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make that motion.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chair, on the motion,
could I just jump in real quickly? There was, I think, a really good
question that was asked by Commissioner McDaniel that I think the
County Attorney needs to opine on, and that is, from a bidding
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perspective, if we make this change, is there a bidding issue that we
have to deal with? And I would turn that question over to the
County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: If you want to eliminate all risk of protest,
then you would put it back out, but that's looking at six months or
even longer, which I think's probably unacceptable. Life is full of
risk. I don't think this is a large risk. So I don't really have that
much concerns about implementing what Commissioner McDaniel is
asking for.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If someone -- excuse me,
Commissioner Saunders. It's still your floor. Can I ask a question?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Certainly. I'm satisfied with
that answer, but, yeah, I'm done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I just -- if someone
were to protest it, will it elongate the process, or do we have a protest
out there we have to deal with?
MR. KLATZKOW: You'd have a protest you'd have to deal
with, but that would be relatively -- that's a relatively quick process.
The lengthy process is the solicitation process.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So I'm going to stand by my
motion, then.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was just going to ask you,
hearing that, do you think what you're proposing that -- you know, I
always say, do you think the juice is worth the squeeze to -- you
know, this thing's already been slowed down quite a bit.
My concern is, like you said, although highly unlikely if we hit a
speed bump because we do it this way, you know, are we running the
risk of artificially slowing it -- sometimes slowing it down is not a
bad thing because we've caught a few things but, I mean, that's just
sort of my -- I'm just thinking out loud. Do you think, you
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know -- for your motion, like I said, do you think it's -- the juice is
worth the squeeze, I guess, is the best way I could say it. Do you
think it is?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, just for the fact of the
unknown.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's my -- and the,
relatively speaking, nominal -- the other county attorney showed
up -- for the nominal risk of someone contesting it, I think it's a more
prudent path for us to travel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: There is a chance, though,
DeAngelis Diamond might not like that idea, right? I mean, there is
that chance.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think he would -- I think he would
honor the decision. That's a good decision.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Just for -- it's my own sake, and Commissioner Hall, I don't
want to speak for him, but, you know, Mr. Finn, you had mentioned
that we've learned our lesson. I think you mentioned the last five
years we're doing things a certain way. Was that an influence -- I
don't know what that lesson was because I wasn't here. I wasn't part
of it. But is that part of your mindset why we approached this
project differently than what we have in the past? I mean, can you
enlighten me personally? And I don't know if Commissioner Hall
cares or not.
MR. FINN: Happy to do it. Happy to do it.
You've probably all heard me term the sports complex syndrome
as sports complex fatigue. That was a large CMAR job. One of the
lessons we learned is when you start with just a little piece of job and
you keep building on it, amendment after amendment after
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amendment and change orders adjusting the scope as it goes, it
creates -- it creates some friction internally, it creates concern about
whether it's being managed properly or not.
One of the lessons we learned is when we go forward with one
of these, we need to make sure we have the whole plan defined for
the Board when they have an opportunity to vote on that guaranteed
maximum price.
The project, ultimately, that you're going to be building is
contained in that guaranteed maximum price amendment that we
bring to you. So the Construction Manager at Risk, their job is to
put together that guaranteed price. They go out and they bid all the
subcontractors; they get multiple bids. It's open book with us. We
look at them together, and we select the bidders that are going to go
into the job and constitute that price.
So we know what the price is. We know where it came from.
So we have a lot of known things. The lesson learned there is, we
need to identify the entire project when we first get to the Board and
identify what we're going to build. So that's the first lesson learned.
The next lesson is we need to have a partner on the construction
manager side that is going to commit to the project with a team that's
going to stay in place as much as possible from cradle to grave on the
project. And the same on our side; we need to maintain a
cradle-to-grave response on our side so that the entire history of the
project is known right from the contracting, from the preconstruction
services, through the guaranteed maximum price, into the project
itself. So the delivery team needs to stay in place. That's the other
key thing.
The other lessons we've learned is if we don't do these things
right, then the process becomes almost more important than the
project. What we're trying to do is deliver a project, but what has
happened here is, to a great extent, people have got caught up in the
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delivery system being this Construction Manager at Risk concept.
So there are probably other lessons learned underneath there, but
those are the big ones. We need to stay engaged. We need to have
a good and willing partner who's committed to the same things we
are, and we need to go into these projects and fully explain what
we're doing, when we're doing, and what the Board is going to see
both today and in the future on these projects.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
MR. FINN: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chair? Sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead. Commissioner Hall,
and then Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So we know the price range that
he's willing to manage this project at. If it's budgeted at 25 million,
he's going to be around $1.2 million at the 4.75. If it's 30 million,
he's going to be up there around 1.5.
So we don't know what the total project cost is, and we don't
know what the total project time is. Once we find that out, it may be
that we can negotiate a lot lower 4.75 being -- if it goes to 40 million,
we don't have to be 4.75 to get him to that same 1.4, $1.5 million
management type.
So that's -- I think -- that's why I concur with Commissioner
McDaniel about just doing the pre -- just doing the preconstruction
services and negotiating later the rest.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just -- on the motion, I
wanted to ask Mr. Finn just a couple questions.
Mr. Finn, in terms of if we went forward with the staff
recommendation, which is basically the whole deal here, not
the -- what's on the motion, at the end of that evaluation period when
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they're coming up with the plans and the cost estimates, under the
proposal that you have in front of us, would we at that point be able
to say the project costs too much, we want [sic] to go forward, or we
would -- at that point would we -- what would be our flexibility, if
any, at this point, I guess, is what I'm trying to ask. Where this way
with Commissioner McDaniel we're fully flexible. Is there a
difference?
MR. FINN: The Board always has the flexibility to turn down
the guaranteed maximum price, and it's entirely possible staff could
make the same recommendation for a number of -- number of
reasons.
I will say that presuming that the contractor's willing to
negotiate, there may perhaps be a little bit of room in the 4.75. I
don't know that. I have not asked for it. That's really the core of it
is that would be the primary additional flexibility that would be
gained is if the Board is asking us to come back with a different
number for that, I suppose we could reinitiate those discussions, but
the specific contract requirements, perhaps the County Attorney can
weigh in.
MR. KLATZKOW: You can continue this item and direct staff
to get with the -- DeAngelis and see if they can get a different
number out of this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to go first, or do
you want to hear me?
MR. TEACH: Your pleasure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, go
ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not suggesting we adjust
anything on the 4.75. I'm only suggesting we enter into the
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preconstruction management agreement and begin that process, at
which point in time, once we have a TPC, then we can come back
and have a discussion about the engagement for CMAR in whatever
form or fashion at whatever percent we all end up with and feel
happy about.
MR. FINN: I'm going to let Mr. Teach weigh in on the contract
requirements there.
MR. TEACH: Scott Teach, Deputy County Attorney.
One thing to remember is the agreement was actually part of the
solicitation. So to the extent -- earlier question by Mr. Saunders,
would this affect if we're changing -- and, really, we would be
changing part of the solicitation, which is how we went about and
selected DeAngelis Diamond. So it could be problematic if all of a
sudden we're negotiating something that wasn't solicited in the same
fashion.
What I would tell you about this process, Ed was right, we had
conversations with Carlton Fields, which is an outside attorney firm
that's been representing the county for over 30 years, and we went
through a lot of these agreements, including the Construction
Manager at Risk agreement. So it's been refreshed.
And what you're approving today is purely the preconstruction
services. So exactly what you want, Commissioner McDaniel.
That's all that's being approved, the 200,000 plus services are the only
thing being approved today. The guaranteed maximum price would
come back to this board, and either staff or the Board could say, that's
way too high. We don't like it. We're going to deny it. We're not
going to go forward with the CMAR anymore. Let's hard bid it and
see if we can get a better deal.
So you sort of have that flexibility as to how the contract sits
because right now you're only approving preconstruction services,
and you will get that second opportunity to say we like the project,
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we don't like the project, it's too expensive as, you know, sitting
before you in this agreement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But aren't we approving the 4.75
as --
MR. TEACH: The 4.75 you are approving, but once you get
the guaranteed maximum price, as Commissioner Hall said, you
know, you'll be able to figure out what that number is for them to
provide their construction manager services, and you can also decide,
well, it's going to be $30 million. We don't want to do that. Let's
hard bid it, manage it internally by staff, maybe save the Construction
Manager at Risk fee. You know, those are your options. And, you
know -- go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on that note, if that's
what we're doing, then say that here. Because the way I read
this -- and I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination. But
the way I read this is I am hiring them as a preconstruction services
and management fee for 4.75, a yet-to-be-determined contract price.
And I understand that there are other things that are going to come in
line with that, but put a period after the preconstruction manager and
then be done with the separate informational item that we're going to
come back with a TPC and negotiate the balance of the CMAR if the
Board chooses to.
MR. TEACH: If that's what the Board wishes to do, then I
would say to follow the County Attorney's recommendation and
continue the item. We can go back to DeAngelis Diamond and say
that at that point -- now, I can tell you that, before, staff had
negotiated the percentage fee, and it was over 7 percent, so they
brought it down to 4-point-something, if I'm correct.
MR. FINN: 4.75.
MR. TEACH: Yeah, 4.75 from 7, which I think was incredibly
high, by the way, but -- so there's no guarantee that that subsequent
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negotiation wouldn't yield a higher percentage.
MR. FINN: If I may, Mr. Chair.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask him another
question first?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If my motion is adjusting the
solicitation in the first place, and I have the discretion at a later date
to adjust the contract based upon the TPC that ultimately comes in
per this -- per this item that I'm voting on, am I not -- am I not
adjusting the solicitation then?
MR. TEACH: And the way the contract provides is first you
have -- you negotiate your preconstruction services, which we've
done, they've negotiated the construction manager percentage rate,
which they've done, and that you amend to incorporate the
guaranteed maximum price, which would happen in the future after
they get through discussing with the design engineer and those type
of things. So that come's -- it's, like, a two-step process back to you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I understand that. And
so what I'm doing is segregating the two steps. And entering into the
known, which is hiring them to do the preconstruction, and then the
balance will be determined once the TPC's, in fact, arrived at,
guaranteed maximum price, as you like to call it, with those terms
and conditions. And we could -- if I heard you correctly, we could
adjust the percentages, we could decide not to do it at all, we could
go out for a hard bid, and those would all then impact the original
solicitation. If I'm a contractor looking at that solicitation, you didn't
ask me for that last year when you actually went out for bid.
MR. TEACH: And what I would say, Commissioner, if
that's -- if that's what the Board wishes to do, that you continue the
item so that we could have these conversations and talk to DeAngelis
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Diamond.
You know, as this item first came in September, you know, I
had my own concerns whether they would even hold that
4.75 percent because, generally, they don't have to hold it beyond 180
days, and it's been quite a while since the item first came up.
So I would suggest, if the Board is reluctant to approve
this -- and that's the pleasure of the Board -- that you continue the
item and you give staff an opportunity to touch base with DeAngelis
Diamond, and we could have some discussions among ourselves and
try to bring something back to you that's more palatable, you know,
and, if possible, in line with what you would rather do, just do a
preconstruction services type of situation, but I would say that
that's -- it's in conflict with how it was solicited, which is
problematic, generally.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And that's where --
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's understandable.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It is understandable, and
that's where it comes back around, is the juice worth the squeeze,
because we're already down this road. And we may end up going
down this road with a TPC that's too high, that's then, in turn, going
to have this board make a decision that is contrary to the original
solicitation which would then put us into another problem.
MR. TEACH: You know, and I can tell you, you know, this
isn't your only option, too, because if you wanted to complete the
engineering design plans on this thing, you could do that and just
hard bid the project. I mean, you have options.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But that also, then, brings me
back into your original statement with the solicitation in the first
place --
MR. TEACH: It would have to be a new solicitation; hard bid,
you know. And something like that, if you had the design plans you
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can put on the street in 30, 60 days. So you know, you're not talking
about a whole lot of delay. I'm just, you know, sharing with you
your options.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I want you to -- I want
everyone to know full well here, I'm not looking to delay anything.
I'm not looking to delay anything.
MR. FINN: If I may --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not even interested in
continuing this for two weeks.
MR. FINN: If I may, Mr. Chairman. This particular
mechanism that we're going forward with, it actually provides
significant flexibility, as Mr. Teach has just outlined. Not only did
he say that "Ed was right," which I'm going to write down and take
home --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Somebody write that down.
Terri wrote it down.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: He was just kidding.
MR. FINN: -- the mechanism that we're proposing here
provides the flexibility that I think the Board's looking at.
What I started to hear is there was less concern about the fee, the
4.75 fee, than there was about having another bite at the apple. I
assure you you're going to have another full bite at the apple where,
as Mr. Teach said, you can say, we're going to hold completely, we
want to move in a different direction, or the design -- the delivery
team has worked well together, and they've come back with a
guaranteed maximum price that we find acceptable and we want to
move forward with.
My colleague reminded me that the 4.75 was not necessarily
based on the dollar value but, rather, it was a reflection of the relative
complexity and the work that was going to be necessary to pull that
off at the top level of that construction management firm. And they
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did start at a much higher rate. And I'm going to just point out -- and
Mr. Teach did as well -- this contract was originally approved by the
Board in November of '21 --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. FINN: -- the selection of DeAngelis Diamond to do this
job. So this has been in process for quite some time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, and --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. I don't know any
other way other than to jump in to get on there.
I've kind of gone full circle on this, and I'm not going to support
the motion, and I want to explain why. This is a very complex
project. You know, we've never been involved in building this type
of a building before. And we're developing a team from cradle to
grave for this project. DeAngelis Diamond is probably the most
important component of that team, and I think splitting this off and
indicating that, well, after you finish the first thing, we're -- we may
just go out and rebid it, I think that sends the wrong message.
I think that we're developing a team here. When we get to the
end of this first phase and we decide, nah, the project's too expensive
or the 4.75 percent is too expensive, we'll be in a position to
renegotiate if necessary. But I think we send the right message if we
just simply go forward with the staff recommendation. We have full
flexibility at the end of that. But we're developing a team. We're
letting this important team member know that, you know, we want to
go forward with this team past this first phase, but we won't go
forward if we have some issues with that.
So I'm not going to support the motion, because I don't
think -- using your term, Mr. Chairman, I don't think the juice is
worth the squeeze. I think we have the flexibility we need going
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forward without breaking this out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I agree with Commissioner
Saunders.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well -- and
that -- there again, it comes back around to what are you going to do
when the TPC comes in and I come up with the bright idea of
reducing the fee and offering them a bonus with regard to the savings
they effectuate? Is that going to mess with the solicitation?
MR. TEACH: You are establishing the Construction Manager
at Risk percentage right now, that's correct. Now, if the guaranteed
maximum price seems to be too high, I mean, you can go back at -- I
mean, that's a negotiated price subject to your approval.
So to the extent that you want to tweak the percentage, you
could negotiate down the overall cost of the project, and that will
affect, you know, the total -- it won't -- it won't affect the percentage
that they're getting, but it will affect the total price of the project
returned to you, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, and my -- you know,
just an off-the-cuff question, how much did the Heritage Bay
government center cost?
MR. FINN: Gross project costs, $11 million.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: $11 million, okay. So this is
three times larger than that. But I know, if I recall correctly, we
were four-and-a-half percent on the CMAR on that one from an
expense standpoint.
MR. TEACH: And, Commissioner, I wanted to share with you,
too, because you had mentioned earlier in your comments regarding
there's no incentive for completing sooner. I've explored that issue
before with counsel that has a statewide practice. That's not
something public agencies incentivize. I've explored that, if it's
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something that we could try to induce quicker returns of projects, and
it's just not something that's done.
As far as liquidated damages, really, that's our ability to jerk
their chain a little bit knowing that they're on the hook if they don't
timely complete things. And in the last several years, dealing with,
you know, supply chain issues and everything, it's been very difficult
for these contractors. We only have a handful that really engage
with the county, and they're fully maxed out. So it's a juggling effort
at best. We have so many projects going on, it's really pretty busy.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
MR. FINN: And if I may, Mr. Chairman, we talked about
lessons learned at length. Just the very fact that we're having this
extensive dialogue at this phase in the project is really kind of
checking one of the boxes for the lessons learned. We've had a full
and complete disclosure of how the process works and what we're
doing. So whatever direction we move, I think we're moving in a
good direction on this one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One of the things you said really
resonated with me and makes me agree with Commissioner
Saunders -- I feel like I'm going around, you know, multiple circles
here -- is if this was part of the initial solicitation, if I heard you
correctly, that's kind of a big -- a big deal. It will be to DeAngelis
Diamond. It doesn't mean we can't come back. So everything
Commissioner McDaniel said totally has merit. He's got me sort of,
you know, thinking about it.
But I settle with my normal comment that I use all the time, I
actually now don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, especially if it
was part of the solicitation.
DeAngelis Diamond isn't some fly-by-night company, and it's
somebody that I think that -- you've already answered my question,
Mr. Finn, that we've got flexibility. You know, we're not tying
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ourself to the parts that I was more concerned with.
But I think if this was the initial solicitation, we run the risk of
sort of jerking their chain a little bit too much. I mean, I think, you
know, in good faith, this is a company that we've worked with, and I
don't -- though I don't love how this is worded, I don't think breaking
it up into smaller pieces is the right way to go either. So although
this might not be how I would have worded it in the optimum way,
we're either voting on this or not, or we're modifying it. I think the
modification might be a bridge too far and may be unnecessary. So
that's kind of where I am now, I think similar to Commissioner
Saunders.
So, Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And, you know, I
guess I come back around to we're really not -- we don't have
flexibility because of the original solicitation, which was what was, in
fact, put out, which was what was utilized to select DeAngelis
Diamond for this fee for this amount. Even if -- per what I
understand, if the construction price comes in too high and we throw
the whole thing out and go to a hard bid or do something else, we're
going to mess with the original solicitation that precipitated this being
in front of us.
MR. TEACH: Commissioner, at the point that the guaranteed
maximum price comes back, if you were to say that's too high, we
want to explore doing an invitation to bid instead, that solicitation's
done. The contract ends at the preconstruction services, and then
you're starting something new. So there wouldn't be a conflict at
that point because you'd put something out new on the street.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. Well, let me say
this -- and I -- because -- I don't like doing business this way. I don't
want us to do business this way. I would rather us engage someone
for preconstruction management services and then go back out for bid
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during that process for the actual manager at risk with a known TPC,
with a known percentage of savings or incentivization to save the
taxpayers' money. If you can't incentivize them to save time, which
time is money, then so be it. But I don't think -- here, again, we're
walking into -- you're representing to me that I have flexibility, but
it's really only on one item, and that one item is the TPC of the
project being too high.
MR. FINN: Ultimately, you have flexibility on the delivery of
the project. If you can sway three of your Board members, when
that guaranteed maximum price comes back, that they want to switch
over and go to a hard bid, then you can sway three of your Board
members, and that's the direction that we will have to move.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, the 4.75 was part of the
initial solicitation, correct?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No.
MR. TEACH: Well, that was a negotiated rate --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, it was 7 is what you said,
right? We negotiated down to 4.75.
MR. TEACH: Staff negotiated that down, correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So agreeing to the rate was part of
the original solicitation, or negotiating a rate.
MR. TEACH: Negotiating the rate -- you have a selection
process. They narrowed the top candidates. They made a
recommendation as to which ones to negotiate with. The Board
approved negotiating with DeAngelis Diamond. At that point they
go back with DeAngelis Diamond, they negotiated that rate and a fee
for the preconstruction services, and now it's back to you for that.
MR. KLATZKOW: So the rate was not part of the solicitation?
MR. TEACH: The rate was not part of the solicitation.
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MR. KLATZKOW: Which means you can change the rate.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We can change it, yep, or we can
not vote on it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Or we can just not vote on it
right now, and just hire them for the construction --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, you need to get going on this
project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sir?
MR. KLATZKOW: You need to get going on this project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's no argument that we
need to get going on the project, but discussion is with regard to
what's here in front of us. If that rate wasn't part of the solicitation,
then --
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, when they come back to you with
the guaranteed maximum price, at that point in time, if you're not
happy with the 4.75, you can --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Adjust it.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- you can negotiate.
MR. TEACH: And, Commissioner, if you think the rate should
be 3.5 percent, you can reject the item today, direct staff to go back
and continue negotiations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So if we vote on this exactly as it's
written there, we're stuck with 4.75?
MR. TEACH: Subject to you agreeing to the guaranteed
maximum price later on.
MR. KLATZKOW: You're not stuck with it, because you've
got to come back with a guaranteed maximum price.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So let's not do it right now,
then. Let's not do the 4.75. Let's hire them for the preconstruction
and be done, and then when we have the TPC, or the total project
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costs, the maximum guaranteed price, then we can have that
discussion.
MR. FINN: If we move forward, they're going to come back
with a guaranteed maximum price. If the Board is directing me to
feel them out on whether they're willing to take a lower fee, I
certainly can do that. We can have that discussion when we bring it
back before the Board.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're putting words in -- I
have -- I don't have a concern with that, with the actual percentage
amount. What I have a concern with is not having a TPC on the
project and agreeing to a fee in relationship to that. That's
what -- that's what I -- I'm uncomfortable with that.
MR. FINN: I got it. And then -- I'm not putting words in your
mouth. You're saying you want to find out the price, then negotiate
the fee. I'm saying that we're going to come back to you with a
price, and if the Board wants us to reopen negotiation on that fee, we
will do so hand in hand with developing that gross maximum price,
and we will come back to you with both the price and a fee that the
construction manager is going to charge. It may well be the same
fee. It may be a higher fee. It may be a lower fee.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But if we vote on this as written
here, DeAngelis Diamond's going to say, why are you coming back
to me to renegotiate at 4.75? You already -- on the 14th of March,
all the commissioners voted on it.
MR. TEACH: You're exactly right, Commissioner. If you're
uncomfortable with that rate right now, I would suggest that you
either continue the item or not approve the item, because if you
approve with the 4.75, if I was DeAngelis Diamond, what, am I going
to come back and negotiate my rate down?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely. He won't do that.
Absolutely not. I wouldn't do it.
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just need --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just need some clarity, because
we're, like, going around and around here, and, you know, I'm going
around and around, too, myself.
But the solicitation, I just want to be clear, because I think now
it sounds different than what you initially said. There was a fee in
the solicitation, correct? We didn't have a number, or there was a
number?
MR. TEACH: This was no number.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No number, but it comes in,
whoever eventually we're going to award it has the opportunity to
have a fee. And they came in at 7 percent, and you negotiated it
down to 4.75?
MR. TEACH: No. The contractors are selected based on their
qualifications, and then you -- staff ranks them, brings them back to
you, you make a recommendation/approval of who they selected as
their number one contractor for this. They go back, they negotiate,
and they brought that percentage back --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Along with --
MR. TEACH: -- that you see today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did that also include the
207,000 for the preconstruction fee? Or was this done on an RFQ or
an RFP?
MR. FINN: RFP.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Huh?
MR. FINN: RFP.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: RFP. So that 207- was a
part of the decision to hire DeAngelis Diamond. I didn't mean to
jump in front of you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I just --
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know. Do you want to finish
your -- so you're done?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why don't you finish. You've got
the floor.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. So back again -- I just
want to get clarity, because I think the solicitation plays a big part in
this, because what we have before us, it sounds like this is what we
solicited and this is what we got, and that's why we ended up with
DeAngelis Diamond after it was all said and done.
So I just want to make sure, because I know we're floating out
the idea, just cut out the 4.75, just stick with the 207,000 or whatever,
and if that was not part of the original solicitation -- I'm not saying
that particular number, but that that was part of their -- you know,
that they were coming -- you know, as a contractor, knowing that that
was going to be part of -- that they were going to be awarded was this
management fee, was that part of the original solicitation? That's
what I'm asking.
MR. TEACH: Commissioner, let me answer you. The
agreement is part of the solicitation. The agreement sets up this
process where they come forward with the preconstruction services
negotiated as a first step along with the rate, and then at that point, if
the Board approves it, they go forward with preconstruction services,
and then at the end of that period of time, they come back, and they
present a guaranteed maximum price to the Board, and the Board
either acceptance or rejects it.
So when I say that this process was part of the solicitation, the
agreement outlines the process. And to the extent that all the other
people that were interested in working on this project as a
Construction Manager at Risk, they also saw that agreement; they all
saw how this process would work out.
March 14, 2023
Page 177
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And they also had the option to
have a 4.75?
MR. TEACH: If they were selected, they could have
negotiated that rate as well.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Just -- I'm trying to get the
language of the solicitation.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. TEACH: Right. Yeah, there was no established rate. It
was negotiated.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because now if we take this off
the table, some other contractor can come back and say, we never
wanted to have 4.75. We just wanted to go with a particular bid.
And then does that open it back up now to other contractors, or the
top three or whatever; is that going to be an issue for us because of
what we solicited? I guess I'm just trying to find out the legality,
where we stand.
MR. KLATZKOW: If you want -- if you want to avoid all risk,
all risk, then you approve this item.
If there's questions you have for staff, all right -- and, obviously,
Commissioner McDaniel has raised some issues -- I would say
continue this item so the staff can talk to you on a one-on-one basis to
alleviate whatever concerns you have, and then come back. I
wouldn't change this on the fly. So my counsel is either approve this
item as it is or continue the item understanding that you're risking the
contractor walking away. It's a small risk, but it's a risk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, we do have a motion on
the floor and a second. Commissioner McDaniel, you're lit up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I am. And, again, it's
not the rate that I have an issue with. It's the process that we're
actually involved in that I'm -- that I'm not pleased with, so...
But I don't want to -- I don't want to delay it. I don't want to
March 14, 2023
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continue it. My concerns are going to be the same two weeks from
now when you come back and you still don't have a TPC and you're
wanting me to -- you're wanting me to engage in a construction
agreement with these -- with DeAngelis Diamond for pre -- I don't
have any issue with the preconstruction. I see the validity in the
value engineering and all of those things.
It's the second portion of it and agreeing to a fee on a
yet-to-be-determined contract price just doesn't fit, so -- and, again,
you know, I'm inclined to withdraw my motion just because I
don't -- I don't want to be -- I don't want to be the fly in the ointment
here, but on the same token, I'm not comfortable with this process.
MR. TEACH: And, Commissioner, let me -- the theory behind
this particular solicitation device is that if you have the construction
manager's service -- manager married up with the engineer early on
in the process, they can identify some value engineering working
with them --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
MR. TEACH: -- some construction efficiencies that may
reduce total costs. Whether that happens in reality or not, you know,
it probably depends on a specific project whether they can actually
accomplish those things or whether you'll actually see those things.
But that's the theory behind it. So they get their -- they get their foot
in the door. They try to work with the engineer to try to make things
a little bit cheaper, and at that point they come back with the
guaranteed maximum price hopefully incorporating those discounted
measures that they've discussed with the engineer, and then they
present that price to you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the issue, Scott, goes
back to the solicitation side along the lines of what I asked at the
beginning of this process when we put this out as an RFP in the first
place and how the decision was ultimately arrived at with the
March 14, 2023
Page 179
competing contractors.
If somebody else, the second or third contractor that was on the
list, actually came back and said, well, geez, I would have done the
preconstruction fee for that if I'd known I was going to get paid 4.75
on a $30 million project. I would -- I would have been able to -- I
would have been able to do the preconstruction less. And
that's -- that's -- again, it all flows back to the original RFP and what
jeopardy we have by making an adjustment here today, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Here's what I'd like to propose:
We normally would have taken a break at 2:50. Do you want to take
just a five-minute break, 10-minute break, just to use the facilities, let
everybody sort of regroup? And then we'll come back here and
complete our discussion. So let's come back here at 3:30.
(A brief recess was had from 3:21 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's resume our
discussion.
So we have a motion and a second, but I'll turn it over to
Commissioner McDaniel. Are you happy with your motion, or you
want to withdraw it or --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, I'm happy with my
motion. I'm going to stick to it. You know, if I've come to anything
with regard to the circuitous discussion that we've had, we have the
potential of messing with the original solicitation and RFP no matter
which way we go. So I'd just as soon hire DeAngelis Diamond,
engage for the preconstruction, and then come back and have a
discussion about the balance once we have the TPC in place.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think it's kind of a similar
situation to dealing with the state. It's not the normal deal, but we
want to get to the normal deal. So it's not the rate that we're
March 14, 2023
Page 180
concerned about. It's just not having a final price and a final time to
apply a rate to.
And, you know, if we have some flexibility in the end, I mean,
we're not -- whatever the price winds up being, we're not going to
say, well, we're not going to do that. I mean, this is the mental
health facility. And so that -- it's only the process is really what
bothered me. It was about negotiating a rate for an amount that we
don't know. And I'm going to stick with my second on that motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. And the motion, just to summarize, is basically that we
just -- that Commissioner McDaniel's motion is that -- he is making a
motion to just approve the first part, just the preconstruction services
amount. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is there anything
you want to say -- just since we've been going around and around, do
you want to summarize your motion for clarity?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Simple, put a period after the
207,965.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we have a motion and a
second to just approve the 207,965 and then stop right there and not
move forward with the rest. We have a motion and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So it passes [sic] 3-2.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, it fails 3-2.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Unless it needs a supermajority.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It fails 3-2.
March 14, 2023
Page 181
COMMISSIONER HALL: It fails 3-2.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I thought I heard you say
you agreed with the motion?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I aye'd what you --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. So let me say
again, so in the motion -- then maybe I just misheard or I was waiting
for Commissioner Saunders to chime in late. So your motion was
seconded by Commissioner Hall. I did not agree with the motion, I
know Commissioner Saunders did not agree with the motion. Did
you not agree with the motion?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I did not agree.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So then my error. So then
it fails 3-2.
So I'd like to make a motion that we take the staff's
recommendation, approve it as-is. I think we had very healthy
discussion. They know where our concerns are. DeAngelis
Diamond, much like the state, is somebody that we have great faith
in. It doesn't mean that we just rubber stamp. But I make the
motion that we approve it as-is. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second it, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have a motion and a
second. All in favor?
Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes 3-2.
MR. FINN: Thank you.
March 14, 2023
Page 182
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did I do that one correctly?
MS. PATTERSON: You did.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The second time you did.
Next time you need a little help, just ask.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, the echo from Commissioner
Saunders there is throwing me off.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15,
staff and commission general communications.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NO
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENT
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: 15A, public comments on general topics not
on the current or future agenda by individuals not already heard
during previous public comment in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have no one registered at this time.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Thank you.
Item #15B
STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
MS. PATTERSON: Item 15B, staff project updates. 15B1 is a
red tide update.
MS. WILLIAMS: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
Tanya Williams -- for the record, Tanya Williams, Public Services
Department head.
March 14, 2023
Page 183
I want to give you a very high-level flyover of your healthy
beaches program, red tide update, and how your county handles
keeping an eye on red tide and then how we handle the result of it.
So I have a very quick PowerPoint presentation. I also have in
the audience representatives from the Health Department should you
have any additional questions. And Ms. Beth Johnssen will be
following up in regards to our cleanup of the beaches as a byproduct
of red tide. So let's get started.
That is the organism fondly known as Karenia brevis which
results in the red tide, so if you've never seen it before, that's what it
looks like. And we work with several agencies that help monitor red
tide blooms and then their potential effects on our shorelines. That's
a satellite image, so you can actually visibly see the bloom and how
large it is, and that's as of last week.
These are current images from Florida Wildlife Conservation
site. They are our actual monitoring agency. So you can see the
various dots along our shoreline that have current either health
concerns or actually elevated risks.
So Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is the
lead agency. They're the ones that actually monitor and do all the
reporting for the red tide, and then the information is monitored by
the Department of Health at the state level, Bureau of Environmental
Health, and then they pass on the results and any communications to
your local Collier Department of Health agency, and it is your local
Department of Health that is responsible for issuing any notifications
to the public regarding specific thresholds and where we're at in those
thresholds.
There's actually a flow chart that tells you when we go into a
caution; that's when the organism is greater than 10,000 cells per liter
of water that's tested, we go into a health alert. And we do have
several of our shorelines that are currently under a health alert, and
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that's where the organism is greater than 100,000 cells per liter.
This is a snapshot of your Florida Department of Health, local
Department of Health website. You'll notice that the red tide
advisory can be accessed from the very top of their screen, and that is
updated on a regular basis depending upon whatever levels we're at.
So on March 7th of 2023 at 9:07 a.m., you did receive a
communication from Ms. Kristine Hollingsworth of the Collier
County Health Department noticing you that Cocohatchee River Park
Marina was going to be added to the health alert for red tide.
Currently, South Marco Beach is still under a caution, and then
you have all of those access points listed that are currently under a
health alert, and we added Cocohatchee.
So once the Health Department notifies us of this alert, then
your Transportation Management Services Department steps in and
actually issues a press release notifying the public of the current red
tide update. And this was a press release that went out on March 7th
later in the day notifying the public of where we stood in regards to
the levels of red tide that were occurring.
In regards to red tide, you can access information from multiple
sites. You can access the information from the Health Department
website. You can access information from our own agency website
through your Transportation Department. There's multiple active
links. And let's see if I actually did this right and we can hop over to
there.
Possibly, maybe. There we go. This is your website from
Transportation Management Services. You have a whole page
dedicated to red tide and any information you would ever want to
know about red tide, all the way down to various videos that explain
it at even the macro level for you.
All right. Now, Troy, I have to get back to my PowerPoint.
There we go. Thank you.
March 14, 2023
Page 185
So that's the high level. That's who we rely on for monitoring
it. Again, we go back to FWC for the actual monitoring it. That's
communicated down through the state to our local Health
Department. Again, the Health Department is in the audience, so if
you have any specific questions about red tide and how it impacts the
health of your constituents, Kristine and her staff would be more than
happy to come up here and answer those questions.
But I'm actually going to segue over to Beth, and Beth's going to
pick up where Coastal Zone handles any of the cleanup of your
beaches regarding the after-effects of red tide as it gets closer to our
shores.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, do you
have a question for --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I'm not sure if it's for
you or for you or for the one that's hiding back there, that's hiding
behind John Mullins.
Because -- and, again, I don't want to downplay all of the good
work that the Health Department has done in notifying the world as
to everything that's going on and the cleanup and everything that
we've actually effectuated, but I want to -- I want to have a discussion
about our water-quality testing.
What type of baseline monitoring do we have going on right
now? Here comes the one that I was thinking I needed to ask that
question to. I mean, all of these things are important, letting the
world know that red tide's out there, that there are potential negative
health impacts, what we're doing with the cleanup after the fact with
the dead fish and all, but on the other side of it we have this -- we all
know about how this transpires and how this -- how this
nutrient -- theoretically nutrient-loaded water is coming in contact
with the red tide and creating an algal bloom and cuts the oxygen off
and kills the fish and so on.
March 14, 2023
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So how far upstream are we going, and how far along are we
with those baseline testing? Good morning -- or afternoon, by the
way.
MS. KINASZCZUK: Hi. Good afternoon. Danette
Kinaszczuk, your Pollution Control manager.
We've been testing for red tide for 20-some years. Rhonda
might be screeching, because she has the exact number somewhere.
We test from Barefoot Beach all the way down to Marco Island in
five different locations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not my question. Red tide
happens offshore. I'm talking about the nutrient-loaded
water -- freshwater that's coming in contact with the red tide that
causes the algal bloom that diminishes the oxygen supply and kills
the fish. That's what I'm wanting to know, the upstream impacts,
and where I have something to say about.
Red tide's been going on for a billion-and-a-half years.
MS. KINASZCZUK: You're correct. And the amount of
impact that nutrients have on that, we are -- the theory is that the
duration and the frequency of red tide can be decreased if we limit
the nutrients that are going out. So if you're asking -- that's a really,
really big question. It depends on the month and the day and the tide
cycle and the location of what the nutrients are.
If you want, we can come back and -- or give you a memo of
some sort that talks --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes --
MS. KINASZCZUK: -- specifically about that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- I would like that. And
then I would like to have -- if we can, if it's the Board's will, I'd like
to have a review of that because, to me, that's a key component as to
how we, who have a little bit of say-so as to what ends up in the crick
that flows out to the Gulf of Mexico where the red tide is, we can
March 14, 2023
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make some adjustments, if necessary. But I need baseline -- and
remember -- I'm going to use this story just to share.
When I first became the commissioner, Golden Gate Estates was
about -- east of 951 was about first built out. And I was going to
propose that we put a regulation in place to require the anaerobic
septic systems to be installed on all new construction. So I deployed
Danette and her bunch to go forth and get some baseline information,
and Jeff and I worked on the ordinance, and then Danette came back
and said, Commissioners, I can't support your ordinance because we
don't have any human effluent actually hitting the water prior to 951.
It actually becomes worse the further west we go.
Am I pretty close in paraphrasing what transpired?
MS. KINASZCZUK: Pretty close. As much as we wanted to
support that, we didn't have the data to support that what was in the
Golden Gate -- the nutrients in the Golden Gate Canal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen. So that's the
question that I want to have answered now is where, when, and how
and what can we do, and what baseline information do we have today
to be able to make that determination going forward and how we can
manage that. So that's what I'd like to see.
MS. KINASZCZUK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, can I ask a
question or two?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We heard some comment
from the -- from a couple speakers this morning, and I think they
were confusing blue-green algae with the red tide. And I guess the
first question is: Do we have a blue-green algae issue in Collier
County? Historically, we've not had that problem. So that's my
first question.
MS. KINASZCZUK: So the blue-green algae that everybody
March 14, 2023
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talks about is typically a freshwater algae, so it's not an issue at the
beach. It can be an issue in some of our freshwater ponds, and
sometimes that will overspill, like in the case of Moorings Bay, but
that is not typically our issue in the saltwater.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So we don't have the
same thing that we have in St. Lucie County, for example, down the
St. Lucie River and where we had the horrible Caloosahatchee River
discharges and blue-green algae that was really disruptive. So that
was just my first question.
The second question is -- and this is really for the new
commissioners to understand where we were -- or where we are and
how we got there. We were dealing with the issue of an ordinance
dealing with fertilizers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And Marco Island had
passed an ordinance prohibiting the use of fertilizers basically during
the rainy season. And there was a lot of pressure on the Commission
to do the same thing. So we hired -- or I think we hired -- I'm not
sure if that was a voluntary thing or if we paid for it, but we had
experts on these types of red tide blooms and impacts of fertilizers on
the waterways. They came down. There were a couple of Ph.D.s
from, I think, the University of Florida. They may have been from
some other place as well. But there was some very high-level
analysis done over the years.
And the recommendation from the experts was not to prohibit
the application of fertilizers during any period of time, that there were
regulations dealing with how close you could apply fertilizers to a
waterway; in other words, how far back you'd have to be, and we
went along with what the recommendations were of the experts.
So my question to staff is: Do we need to revisit that? Was
that the right decision? I'm convinced that it was the right decision
March 14, 2023
Page 189
at the time, because we had really top-notch experts telling us this is
what you really ought to do.
I even got a phone call from somebody on Marco Island -- I
think it was one of the commissioners -- council members that had
voted for their ban, and he had said, I wish we had done what the
county had done in the way we did it.
But I want to -- I want to revisit that to make sure that if we -- if
we have the right fertilizer ordinance in place, that's great, but I want
to make sure that still is the case.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to just suggest that staff revisit that for us
and come back with some kind of a report at some point on, you
know, was this the right decision.
MS. KINASZCZUK: I can say now, I mean, we can provide
you with some additional information, but we still feel that that was
absolutely the right decision, and there has been a study since then
that supports that decision.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Great, if you could provide
that to us, perhaps that would clarify that. But I just want the public
to know as well as our most recent commissioners joining the
Commission what we did, why we did it, and whether or not that was
the right decision. It sounds like it was. But if you could provide
that report, and we can have some further discussion, if necessary,
going down the road.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just one, and maybe we
could have that information when we come back with a discussion on
the baseline information going forward with the nutrient load, et al.
MS. KINASZCZUK: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perfect.
MS. KINASZCZUK: We do surface water reports that are
March 14, 2023
Page 190
available on our website. We can send those to you, but -- and you
can take a look at that and see if you're asking for something more
specific, too.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Say that again.
MS. KINASZCZUK: We do have surface water reports that
are available on our website that does a five-year trend, and then a
long-term trend -- or an annual trend and then a long-term trend, and
we can send those to you, and then if you have something maybe
more site specific, we can go from there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, what -- I don't
want to belabor a point right here. We'll set up a meeting, and then
we'll have a talk about what I'm thinking about and then go from
there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. JOHNSSEN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, I'm Beth Johnssen, Capital Project Planning, Impact Fees, and
Program Management.
I'm going to provide a very quick overview of our beach cleanup
activities during the red tide event.
The coastal -- whoop. Troy, could you queue that up, please.
MR. MILLER: I'm sorry.
MS. JOHNSSEN: That's not it either. Nope.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's the mental health facility.
MS. JOHNSSEN: The first one there. This one. Yep, thank
you. Okay.
The Coastal Zone beach crews continue to rake and clean the
beaches daily. We engaged the assistance of a contractor about two
weeks ago to enhance our cleanup activities when we were getting a
little bit further behind.
The total number of fish that we're seeing on the beach are
declining, but we are still seeing the dead and dying fish that are
March 14, 2023
Page 191
appearing sporadically.
As Tanya indicated, the wind direction and current plays a big
role in how that bloom is moving around. So one day there might be
more fish on one beach, not as many the next day. So we're always
monitoring that.
We've expended approximately $50,000 working with the
contractor so far during cleanup efforts, and we'll work on recovering
that money with the state.
As I mentioned, beach conditions change often. There are a
number of red tide informational sites available -- and Tanya
displayed a couple of those -- however, the beach conditions report
that's operated by Mote does provide comprehensive information
specific to the beach sites and field observations on a daily basis.
And with that, I'll finish and ask if you have any questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you for the update.
MS. JOHNSSEN: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. We did have a registered
speaker for this item. I don't believe they're still here, but I should
call the name. Melanie Vejdani.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: No, she's not present. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Was she? I mean --
MR. MILLER: No, this was a handed-in slip of paper, so I
think she was -- this was handed to me very early today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
March 14, 2023
Page 192
MS. PATTERSON: Item 15C, staff and commission general
communications.
I just have one item. We received a request from Lee County
for a letter of support for their -- the construction -- they're looking
for a legislative appropriation from the state to build a Department of
Natural Resources Environmental laboratory as well as a Medical
Examiner's facility. They indicate in their letter that these will
provide regional services, including services to residents of Collier
County.
I've been advised by Mr. Mullins that we've had this type of
request before and that it is okay to provide a letter of support, but it
should come from the agency versus the Board to avoid confusion
between the Board's legislative priorities and simply supporting and
being a good neighbor to our neighbor. So if the Board members are
okay with that, we'll work on a letter, share it with County Attorney
Klatzkow before sending it up to Lee County under our signature.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Sounds good. Any
questions?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I like it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: That's all I have.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing from me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anything from either of
you?
MS. PATTERSON: That's it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to do Saunders?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Commissioner Saunders,
on the line, we'll start with you, closing comments.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a couple.
March 14, 2023
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First of all, I want to thank all of the communications staff, Tina
and Troy and everybody that kind of helped me. I'm technologically
and computer illiterate, and they were able to get me on board today.
So I want to thank them for that.
I want to thank the Board for moving forward with that veterans
nursing home contract, and I want to reassure the Clerk that she's
going to -- she's going to want some comfort provided by the County
Attorney, and the County Attorney and I have discussed it. It's
nothing that would be out of the ordinary, so he's going to be assuring
her that issuing the $30 million check is legal, that there's no liability
on the Clerk's part for signing a check of that nature. And so I just
want to thank the Clerk for her understanding and the Commission
for moving forward with that.
So that's it for me, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have four zoning initiatives that
I'm going to bring forth at our next meeting on the 28th, and I was
considering whether I should do that or not based on the affordable
housing bill that has passed the Senate and is now in the House.
And I've gotten some feedback from some lobbyists other than
our own that maybe that bill may change a little bit in the legislature.
Maybe the preemptions could possibly go away. So, anyway, before
that happens, I just wanted to just let you know I was thinking about
maybe withdrawing our decision on those four zoning initiatives, but
I think I'm going to go ahead and bring them forth so we can talk
about them. Whether we pass them or not will be up to us. But if
you're wondering why are you bringing that forth when we have this
other affordable housing thing from the state, that's why.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Could I talk?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, go ahead.
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The two aren't mutually
exclusive.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, they're similar.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I mean, our zoning initiatives
are going to be what they are, and the state -- the state has their own
ideas as to what we should be doing while they're preempting us.
So the one question I wanted to ask you -- and we remanded it
over to the AHAC -- was the ADUs in the Urban Estates, has that
been addressed at all?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes. We had a workshop with
staff and discussed, you know, several items like septic updates and,
you know, how we would monitor it and everything. We had a
pretty good discussion one day --
Mr. French?
He has gone to a third party to answer a bunch of these
questions. I'll let him address that for us.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioners. Again, for the
record, Jamie French.
Commissioners, we have engaged with Agnoli, Brundage &
Barber on a couple -- they're one of our engineering services
contracts that does have a planning element to it, and we're using
them to look into this -- the ADUs, as they're referred to, or
guesthouses, on how we would move forward with something like
that, as well as looking at other communities as well as state law that
passed for the -- for the use of ADUs for affordable housing.
So we're in discussions with them. We're hopeful to have
something back to you at a future Board meeting, but it -- it is going
to take a little time. So I would say that we'll continue to report up
through Commissioner Hall as well as through AHAC, and we'll
share any findings we have, and we can even give you a progress
report along the way if that's what the Board would like.
March 14, 2023
Page 195
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you know, there again,
I just -- you know, I ruffled Commissioner Saunders' feathers when I
brought it up, and -- because the majority of the Urban Estates lies in
District 3. And I certainly didn't mean to ruffle his feathers. It just,
to me, was a fairly logical process. If we're shy of rental
units -- and, again, as a proposition, maybe we pick an area as
opposed to the whole area: Logan Estates or Oakes Estates or
Livingston -- Livingston Estates is one square mile of Urban
Estates -- and do it as a pilot program for the allowance of legalized
renting of guesthouses and see if there's a huge uptick and see what
the ultimate impacts are, and maybe crawl before we walk.
So I just -- I know we remanded it over to the AHAC, and
I -- it's a way -- and I don't disagree with Commissioner Saunders
with the statement that it has an impact on the character of the
neighborhood. What that impact is is yet to be determined, so...
COMMISSIONER HALL: I remember him saying, I just want
it to go away.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, and it isn't.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Could I ask just -- I don't know.
I know one question we brought up was if this actually came to
fruition and actually happened, does this jeopardize the homeowners'
homestead?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Did we ever get an answers on
that?
MR. FRENCH: That is something else that we're looking into,
sir. Again, this was -- I believe this was two weeks ago you asked us
to look into this, and so we are aggressively looking into this as well
as a few other initiatives.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was a month ago.
MR. FRENCH: A month ago.
March 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, it seems like yesterday.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Having fun. Time flies.
MR. FRENCH: It seems like yesterday.
So I would tell you that we have already had these meetings
with the vendor. In fact, Mr. Bosi met with them, I want to say,
about maybe a week after your Board meeting to go through this, and
we're finalizing up that work scope right now, and it will be going
directly through Mr. Bosi as well Mr. Giblin, Ms. Cook in my office,
so that we avoid any delays.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just real quickly, first of all,
I don't have any feathers to be ruffled, so no worries there,
Commissioner McDaniels [sic]. And --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That was a good one. That was a
good one.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: My concern is that this does
have the impact of really changing an entire neighborhood, and we'll
take the Oakes as an example, because you mentioned three Estates
areas that might be test areas. We would need to work very closely
with the Oakes Homeowners Association and make sure that
everyone's aware of what's going on, because a lot of people -- I live
in Logan Woods. I'd probably take -- I could take advantage of that
and put, you know, an accessory dwelling unit on my property and
rent it out, and that would -- that would start changing the character
of that -- of that whole street if everybody started doing that. So we
just need to be real careful. That's all I was suggesting. And that's
why I wanted it referred back to AHAC so they could come back
with a recommendation. Then we could evaluate it and have some
public hearings on it.
I can't say that I'm necessarily absolutely opposed to it. I just
March 14, 2023
Page 197
don't know what the impacts of it are.
So I think the approach you're taking now, Commissioner
McDaniel, will work in terms of evaluating it as long as the
communities have some input into the process.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. And I
appreciate you saying that, Commissioner Saunders. It does have
the potential of having an impact of the character. And, again,
if -- after this information is ascertained about the impacts for
homestead and if the division of the -- that portion of the
property -- if it's -- what kind of an impact it's going to have, we have
to make those decisions or have that information in order to actually
make a decision on that at some stage. So that's all important
information. Maybe even just a -- you know, a simple engagement
on a straw poll on an upcoming ballot next year. We've got election
season next year. This isn't -- this isn't a "have to" thing. It's just an
out-of-the box thought process as to how we can add more units into
the marketplace and have them managed by people that are here and
part of the community. So I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not fast-rolling it
by any stretch, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: How about closing comments to
you --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- Commissioner McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Friday night, Collier
County Fair, 5:30 ribbon cutting. You-all are welcome if you
haven't been before. I'll be there. I'll be there to snatch the scissors,
so -- and it's the beginning of the Collier County Fair, which is a
wonderful time. So if you haven't made it yet, come on.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Have they got a carnival?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yeah. It's wide --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I've got grandkids.
March 14, 2023
Page 198
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, you do. We saw them
all in here in the prayer. So it's a wonderful thing Friday night.
Saturday in Immokalee is the cattle drive. They are actually
doing the cattle drive through Main Street of Immokalee. I think it's
at 10:00, 10:00 on Saturday morning, and it's also a lot of fun for you
to -- if you haven't ever been to actually attend.
Excuse me one second.
The ban burn [sic] is in place. We had a -- had a terrible fire a
week and a half ago. Actually, I think the day before the ban
actually took effect, and so we really want to remind folks, even
though we did get a little rain yesterday, be very careful with your
cigarette butts. I don't know. I heard two different accounts as to
how that fire started in the Estates, but one was a cigarette butt and
another one was power lines on the trees. So I'm not quite sure. It's
really irrelevant.
But it's really -- it's important right now to hunker down. We
have an enormous amount of tinder on the ground from Hurricane
Ian, and so these fires, they burn very, very hot and can be very, very
damaging.
Last, but not least, I wanted to just ask the County Manager
where we're at with the interlocals with the City of Naples, because
Commissioner Saunders looks crooked at me all the time because I
was charged with getting it done.
MS. PATTERSON: I'll actually let -- before I speak up, I'll let
Dan give you the latest.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Good late afternoon, Commissioners.
Dan Rodriguez, your Deputy County Manager.
Actually, about a week and a half [sic], the city council had a
meeting to discuss the beach parking permits, and they gave direction
to their staff to put together a best recommendation for the council to
review. And we hope to hear back from them within the next week
March 14, 2023
Page 199
and a half to two weeks on what the -- the criteria that makes up the
justification for their dollar value for that beach permit agreement.
So we're excited. The City Manager has been in communication
with Amy and the team, and we look to hearing from them very soon.
MS. PATTERSON: Once we have those proposals in hand,
then we'll get you and the Mayor together, as you were the two that
were appointed to work on this once the staff had numbers together
and the needed information.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Very good. Thank
you.
MS. PATTERSON: We're moving along.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good. That's all, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, the agenda wasn't
really heavy, but I think we got -- I think we got a lot of things done
today. You know, if you really look at the items we went through
and our heated discussion or -- you know, our educated discussion
amongst each other.
So I -- you know, you may not look at it and say, oh, you know,
they're out of here by 4:00 or 4:30, but I think in the hours we were
here, we made a dent in -- and I think some good things came out of
it, you know, even though maybe not all of us looked at it that way,
you know, in reality.
But, you know, he had a heated -- a long discussion about
something that's -- it's public safety related. It's not a park. It's not
another swimming pool, you know, and we look at it, and it's
something that's probably a decade overdue, and, I think, you know,
it was good to have the discussion, but I think at the same time, we're
looking at public safety here. It's totally different than the county
just entering into a project that's, you know, like a park or something,
you know, that we can delay, and there's no -- there's no residual
March 14, 2023
Page 200
outcome or effects of that.
So I'm proud of what we've been doing, and I'm very thankful
that I'm on this board, so thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're thankful you're here.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Did you want to tell Burt that you
missed him?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, yeah. I did miss Burt.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you see how Commissioner
Saunders is coming out of his shell? We've been working on him.
That's what happens when you all go to -- we all go to Tallahassee
together.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And I think he does feather his
hair on one side, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I do want to thank you for
permitting me to participate today.
And I agree with Commissioner Kowal; I think we made some
good decisions. We had some disagreements, but the thing that's
really important is we're working together as a team representing the
best interests of the county. And we're not always going to agree,
but we can always be agreeable. We can, you know, just be
professional, and we're -- and I think we've got probably -- and I've
said this before, and it's a little bit self-serving, but I'll say it again. I
think we have one of the best -- or not one of the best, but the best
elected boards that I've ever seen. And I'm proud to be part of it.
So, Commissioner Kowal, I appreciate what you said. And I
agree with you completely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I feel differently. No, I'm just
kidding.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are we opening that up for
discussion?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, no.
March 14, 2023
Page 201
Mr. Miller, shut off Commissioner Saunders. He's -- you can
log him off, and then you can shut off all their mics.
First I just want to say to you, Bill, we hope your mom's doing
better.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, it is -- it is -- we all
have -- I have a mom that's struggling a bit as well, but I like when
you chime in and you say, hey, my mom just texted me. She told me
to stand up -- sit up straight. You know, that's what my mom would
do. So I hope she makes a quick recovery.
Just a couple of review items. We talked a lot about rock
crushing, and I spoke with -- or Mr. Rodriguez spoke with me at one
of the breaks, and he had some very aggressive discussions with our
staff, with the people who were here to speak and who exited. So
I'm looking for that -- we all are looking for that sense of urgency.
And I think, you know, we all agree that, you know, the pedal's got to
be full down to the floor.
And, you know, I agree with Commissioner Kowal. I mean, we
both were sort of paddling in a similar direction. You know, I'm not
here to continue to kick the can until they kind of get done.
And I can tell you, the citizens that I talk to, if we get into April,
May, June, in that sort of a window, without starting a whole
discussion here, they wouldn't mind if the Sheriff closed the whole
road and an army of trucks for a week took all the remaining debris
off of that lot and just finally got it done. So that is a real option.
That is a real option. So they need to know that, that -- you know,
that wasn't an option a year ago. It didn't make sense. And the
dust, and the noise, it's an option. It's an option.
I'm having town halls in that area, and so is Commissioner
Kowal, and we're all getting emails. Options that were ludicrous a
year ago now might be the solution. They need to know that.
March 14, 2023
Page 202
Just so you all know, tomorrow we're opening Caxambas
partially, and thanks to the Parks and Recreation team, to their
leadership, Tanya and Olima, Dan, and the staff, our contractors. A
lot of people really have been working hard to get Caxambas open
partially.
There was a lot of damage out there, so I've been out there quite
a bit. It's going to be open just for citizens. No commercial use.
No motorized boats or anything like that. So it's a limited use. But
we've got an army of people out there, correct, tomorrow to make
sure we don't have any Wild West shows or big fights or, you know,
commercial folks showing up with long trailers who didn't get the
message. So I want to make sure that happens.
And the other two marinas and parks that took a big hit in
District 1 were Goodland, and there's a boat ramp on 951 across from
the entrance to Isles of Capri, and those have been -- were reopened
very quickly after Ian, but they still required a lot of work. And I
just wanted to thank you-all for -- you know, I know we still have
some homework assignments to do but, certainly, the staff has done a
really good job getting those open and upgraded even in many cases.
A shout-out to Florida Department of Transportation as well as
our staff. I'll give Trinity the shout-out, but it concerns litter. I
think we've all sort of brought up the issue of litter on our roads. I
mean, I've been speaking really on behalf of all of us. I went
directly to FDOT with Trinity and spoke of some very specific areas.
Not even just in my district, just in general areas of I-75, areas on
Collier Boulevard, areas on U.S. 41.
And over the last couple days, I actually have seen -- you know,
I mean, I come from Marco to drive here, so I cover a lot of areas and
wiggle through quite -- a couple of districts.
They've had a lot of -- a lot of teams out there in orange vests
picking up litter. So hopefully it's not a one-time deal. But I really
March 14, 2023
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appreciate their quick action. And they've sent me quite a few
emails saying we're going to be out there tomorrow. Here's where
they're going to be. So they've done a great job. Was it Wayne is
our FDOT -- he comes to the MPO meetings?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, he's been very helpful.
Coming out of the homestretch here, the Conservation Collier
lots, 11 -- remember 10B, 11A, 11B, let's not forget that. We need
an update, I mean, at some -- you know, sooner than later. We don't
want to give the impression we're kicking the can on that. And if
appraisals have been done on these lots, I personally don't mind being
piecemealed. And maybe it's not for this meeting. Maybe it's just
an email, but I'd like to know, are we chipping away at those lots as
far as getting the appraisals. And then, of course, it comes back to
us for a decision. But, you know, let's see those -- that on the agenda
sooner than later.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. We'll get you an update, but I
can tell you there's a good group of them that are coming to the
Board at the next meeting to be finalized.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, perfect.
And then, lastly, there's, you know, two fire stations that are in
discussion. You've got people that live in the City of Everglades and
also that live in Port of the Islands that are, you know, hearing a lot of
rumors, very concerned that, you know, two fire stations are going to
go away and, you know, that's actually not true. And so I want to
make sure that continues to be not true. And even though the -- as
I've said at a couple town hall meetings to the citizens of Port of the
Islands -- and I don't know if you've heard from, you know, folks in
Everglades City.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Heard from them; are you
kidding me?
March 14, 2023
Page 204
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. You could hear them from
here. The patches might change and the faces might change
but -- you know, concerning a conversation we had, there won't be
degradation of services or a change in services. And so that's our
going-in position.
I know you're in a lot of conversations with a lot of people, but,
you know, sometimes the citizens there sort of hear from the
firefighters who maybe aren't getting the full word and they think
they're about to lose their jobs or move to a different fire station, and
they're not being backfilled, and part of that, I think, is what is
feeding some of the citizen concern, and their concern has merit if
they truly believe their fire stations are going to be closed or greatly
reduced. But I just want to go on record that our position is that
that's not going to happen and, you know, you're working that at your
level. But continue to keep us updated.
MS. PATTERSON: We will, and we'll have an update for you
again soon. We're meeting this week with Greater Naples Fire and
continue to work that issue.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, great. Okay. Any
follow-ons or anything?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you for bringing that
up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I neglected to. The
Chairman of the Greater Naples showed up at the Everglades City
Council --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I bet he did.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He did, and he announced
that the City -- at the City Council meeting that Greater Naples was
pulling out of Ochopee as of May 1st. So talk about lighting up a
room.
March 14, 2023
Page 205
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And it was just -- it was just
totally not cool to do that, I mean, because we all agree that public
safety is our number-one job. And so to even throw a match on that
was totally -- just not -- just not a good idea.
The bottom line is is I assured the Mayor, and I've talked to the
residents of Everglades, that they will never, never be left without,
so -- and similarly with Port of the Isles, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was going to say, lastly, like you
said, a lot of good did happen today. I'm glad that we voted
unanimously on the boardwalk, but voting on it is not the final step.
It's the first step. That's a big project over an area that is really
environmentally sensitive.
And so continuing to really stay on top of that -- we don't want
that to turn into a rock crushing lot, you know, fiasco. We don't
want that to turn into a Marco Island airport where it's four years late
and well overbudget.
And so that one has a chance to really be something amazing
and special, all of us collectively feeling that same way but, you
know, that's also a very expensive project to just build a wooden
walkway across an environmentally sensitive area, and we want that
to be a gold standard where it came in on time, on budget or less, and
is -- was just solid gold.
And it doesn't have all that -- we're not building the Eiffel Tower
or the Empire State Building. So how disappointing it would be if
that one got sloppy quick.
So let's really, really stay on that. And even to get some
updates on that. It affects all of us regardless of whose district it's in.
It's in Commissioner Kowal's district, but that area is frequented by
all of the citizens in our districts.
So, you know, I would periodically -- even if it's just
March 14, 2023
Page 206
privately -- to hear how that project is moving forward, how it's
going, and -- because it's an important one. It's in one of our highly
visible, highly used county parks that everybody uses regardless of
district, and I know it's going to be -- it's going to be a really nice add
once it's finished. We just don't want it to be a white elephant type
of thing where, you know, we didn't do it right, so -- and I know
everybody shares that.
So having said that, I guess we're adjourned.
*****
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
LoCastro, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
RECORDING THE AMENDED FINAL PLAT OF ESPLANADE
BY THE ISLANDS - PHASE 2 REPLAT, (APPLICATION
NUMBER PL20220006144) APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD
FORM CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
AND APPROVAL OF THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE
AMOUNT OF $2,517,064.70.
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR MANATEE COVE PHASE 2, PL20210001317 AND
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO
RELEASE THE FINAL OBLIGATION BOND IN THE TOTAL
March 14, 2023
Page 207
AMOUNT OF $4,000 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR THE
DEVELOPER’S DESIGNATED AGENT
Item #16A3
RESOLUTION 2023-43: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF
MAPLE RIDGE PHASE 6A, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20170002650, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITIES IN THE AMOUNT OF
$597,454.58
Item #16A4
TERMINATION OF AGREEMENT AUTHORIZING
AFFORDABLE HOUSING DENSITY BONUS AND IMPOSING
COVENANTS AND RESTRICTIONS ON REAL PROPERTY FOR
SUMMER LAKES APARTMENTS II THAT HAS SATISFIED
THE TERMS OF ITS AFFORDABILITY PERIOD
Item #16A5
THE CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A PERFORMANCE
BOND IN THE AMOUNT OF $28,080 WHICH WAS POSTED AS
A GUARANTY FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER
PL20210002323 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH
SOLUNA
Item #16A6
March 14, 2023
Page 208
ELECTRONIC SUBMISSION BY STAFF OF A SMALL COUNTY
OUTREACH PROGRAM FOR RURAL AREAS OF
OPPORTUNITIES APPLICATION WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO FUND THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A PAVED SHOULDER PROJECT TO
IMPROVE SAFETY ON A SEGMENT OF IMMOKALEE ROAD
(CR 846E) - IN THE AMOUNT OF $985,274.47.
Item #16A7
A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT AT TWO
REGULARLY SCHEDULED DAYTIME HEARINGS AND
WAIVE THE NIGHTTIME HEARING REQUIREMENT
Item #16A8
SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
STAFF TO BEGIN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH CSA
OCEAN SCIENCES, INC., RELATED TO REQUEST FOR
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 22-8015,
“PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FOR NEARSHORE
HARDBOTTOM MONITORING,” DIRECT STAFF TO BRING A
PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK FOR THE BOARD’S
CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE MEETING, AND MAKE A
FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM.
Item #16A9
AN EXPENDITURE OF $26,220 IN TOURIST DEVELOPMENT
TAX FUNDS TO RICK CROFT ENTERPRISES, INC. DBA
TEXAS TRAILERS UNDER CONTRACT NUMBER FSA20-
March 14, 2023
Page 209
EQU18.0 - HEAVY EQUIPMENT (PIGGYBACK CONTRACT
251) FOR THE PURCHASE OF TWO (2) MEDIUM DUTY
MOBILE CARGO TRAILERS FOR THE STORAGE OF
EQUIPMENT AND SUPPLIES USED FOR BEACH
MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES, AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENT, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS
EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM
Item #16A10
A WORK ORDER FOR CSA OCEAN SCIENCES, INC. TO
CONTINUE THE REQUIRED POST-CONSTRUCTION
HARDBOTTOM MONITORING FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY
BEACH NOURISHMENT PROJECT IN SUMMER 2023 FOR
TIME AND MATERIALS NOT TO EXCEED $378,594.35
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDS UNDER CONTRACT
NO. 17-7188, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE
WORK ORDER, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM
PROMOTES TOURISM
Item #16A11
TERMINATION OF GRANT CONTRACT NO. F19AC00805
BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND THE U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF THE INTERIOR AND THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AND APPROVE THE
REQUIRED BUDGET AMENDMENT TO REDUCE GRANT
FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $190,003.41 IN THE GROWTH
MANAGEMENT GRANT FUND (711)
Item #16A12
March 14, 2023
Page 210
TERMINATE SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT NOS. IR031 AND
IR002 IN THE AMOUNTS OF $602,786.32 AND $591,374.00,
RESPECTIVELY, WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY (FDEO), COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT-MITIGATION (CDBG-MIT)
PROGRAM AND THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK
GRANT-DISASTER RECOVERY (CDBG-DR) PROGRAM
TOTALING $1,194,160.32 FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE
IMMOKALEE EDEN GARDENS STORMWATER
IMPROVEMENTS, AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE
IMMOKALEE NORTH 3RD STREET DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS; AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE
TERMINATION LETTERS TO THE GRANTOR, AND APPROVE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO REDUCE GRANT
FUNDS TOTALING $1,194,160.32 IN THE GROWTH
MANAGEMENT GRANT FUND (711)
Item #16C1
PROPOSAL #10581, UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 19- 7592
BUILDING AUTOMATION ENERGY MANAGEMENT
SERVICES, FROM JUICE TECHNOLOGIES, INC. D/B/A PLUG
SMART, AND AUTHORIZE THE ISSUANCE OF A PURCHASE
ORDER IN THE AMOUNT OF $430,237.17 TO REPLACE THE
PROPRIETARY N2 JOHNSON CONTROLS BMS WITH NEW
BACNET RELIABLE CONTROLS AT THE COLLIER COUNTY
COURTHOUSE ANNEX
Item #16C2
March 14, 2023
Page 211
CHANGE ORDER IN THE AMOUNT OF $16,302.96 AND TO
ADD ONE HUNDRED TWENTY (120) DAYS TO AGREEMENT
NO. 20-7764, “NORTH COUNTY WATER RECLAMATION
FACILITY (“NCWRF”) AERATION BASINS 5 & 6 DIFFUSER
SYSTEM REPLACEMENT,” WITH U.S. WATER SERVICES
CORPORATION, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN
THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER
Item #16C3
FOURTH AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 18-7429 FOR
SECURITY SERVICES WITH UNIVERSAL PROTECTION
SERVICE, LLC TO ADJUST THE FEE SCHEDULE TO BETTER
ALIGN WITH MARKET RATES FOR THE FINAL RENEWAL
TERM OF ONE YEAR UNDER THE AGREEMENT AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
AMENDMENT
Item #16C4
AFTER-THE-FACT PAYMENT OF $170,916.00 TO LJ POWER,
INC., FOR EMERGENCY GENERATOR RENTAL FEES
INCLUDING SHIPPING AND FAIR MARKUPS THAT WERE IN
EXCESS OF THE AGREED UPON CONTRACT #18-7324 RATES
IN RESPONSE TO HURRICANE IAN, WHICH WAS
NECESSARY TO PREVENT A HEALTH SAFETY EMERGENCY
AND POTENTIAL FOR RAW SEWAGE SPILLS, TO RATIFY
STAFF’S DECISION TO PROCURE THE NEEDED
GENERATORS OUTSIDE OF THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE
AGREEMENT, AND TO WAIVE ANY IRREGULARITY WITH
THE AGREEMENT
March 14, 2023
Page 212
Item #16D1
“AFTER-THE-FACT” AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDINGS WITH
THE BOYS & GIRLS CLUB OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
INC. FOR THE DELIVERY OF THE 21ST CENTURY
LEARNING CENTERS SWIMMING SKILLS AND DROWNING
PREVENTION “MIRACLE 1 AND MIRACLE 2” PROGRAMS IN
IMMOKALEE
Item #16D2
FIRST AMENDMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE
AGREEMENT WITH JIM HOWARD MOODY ALSO KNOWN
AS JIM H. MOODY AND LINDA SUE LECOUNT, AS TRUSTEE
OF THE AMENDED AND RESTATED TRUST OF W. L.
CRAWFORD REVOCABLE TRUST U/A APRIL 26, 1991, FOR
59.79 ACRES UNDER THE CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND
ACQUISITION PROGRAM
Item #16D3
A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECOGNIZE CARRY
FORWARD INTEREST EARNED, IN THE AMOUNT OF $751.99,
FOR THE PERIOD OF JULY 2022 THRU SEPTEMBER 2022 ON
ADVANCED LIBRARY FUNDING RECEIVED FROM THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF STATE TO SUPPORT LIBRARY
SERVICES FOR THE USE OF COLLIER COUNTY RESIDENTS
Item #16D4
March 14, 2023
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PAYMENT WITHOUT FURTHER PENALTY TO HOUSING
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION OF SW FLORIDA, INC.,
D/B/A HELP, UNDER A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT
WHERE THE PERFORMANCE REPORT (EXHIBIT C) DID NOT
PROPERLY REFLECT INTENDED OUTCOME GOALS
Item #16D5
A GRANT DONATION FROM THE HSIYANG WU MEMORIAL
FUND THROUGH THE BRANCH COUNTY COMMUNITY
FOUNDATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $500 FOR THE BENEFIT
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY AND
AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
Item #16D6
“AFTER-THE-FACT” SECOND AMENDMENT AND
ATTESTATION STATEMENT WITH THE AREA AGENCY ON
AGING FOR SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC. FOR COMMUNITY
CARE FOR THE ELDERLY GRANT PROGRAM TO DECREASE
THE CONTRACT AMOUNT BY $50,000 AND REVISE THE
ANNUAL BUDGET SUMMARY (ATTACHMENT VIII)
Item #16D7
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TOTALING $725,185;
TRANSFERRING RESERVES WITHIN THE LOCAL PROVIDER
PARTICIPATION FUND (169) TO REMITTANCES TO OTHER
GOVERNMENTS, FOR THE PURPOSE OF REMITTING
March 14, 2023
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PAYMENT TO THE AGENCY FOR HEALTH CARE
ADMINISTRATION AS PART OF THE DIRECT PAYMENT
PROGRAM INTERGOVERNMENTAL TRANSFERS OF STATE
FISCAL YEAR (SFY) 2022-2023, PURSUANT TO SENATE BILL
2500, THE GENERAL APPROPRIATIONS ACT OF SFY 2022-
2023.
Item #16D8
RATIFY SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENTS AND ALL
AMENDMENTS SIGNED BY THE COUNTY MANAGER
UNDER THE LOCAL FISCAL RECOVERY FUND GRANT TO
DISTRIBUTE REIMBURSEMENT FOR EXPENSES TO
ELIGIBLE PARTIES; APPROVE THE EXTENSION OF TIME-
LIMITED PERSONNEL TO CARRY OUT THE REMAINING
FUNDED PROJECTS
Item #16D9
A LANDLORD PAYMENT AGREEMENT ALLOWING
COMMUNITY AND HUMAN SERVICES (CHS) TO
ADMINISTER THE RAPID RE-HOUSING AND
HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION PROGRAM THROUGH THE
EMERGENCY SOLUTIONS AND RAPID UNSHELTERED
SURVIVOR HOUSING GRANTS PROGRAM AND AUTHORIZE
THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE AMOUNT
OF $124,693.25 TO SUPPORT THE REQUIRED MATCH FUNDS
Item #16E1
ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
March 14, 2023
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PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR AFTER-THE-FACT
PROCUREMENTS REQUIRING BOARD APPROVAL TO
RATIFY/APPROVE OTHER ITEMS AS DETERMINED BY THE
COUNTY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE IN ACCORDANCE WITH
PROCUREMENT ORDINANCE 2017-08 AND PROCUREMENT
MANUAL, AS WELL AS, TO APPROVE PAYMENT OF
$3,433.06 IN EXPENDITURES THAT HAVE BEEN INCURRED
THAT WERE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE CONTRACTS
OR PROCUREMENT REQUIREMENTS AND THE
ASSOCIATED INVOICES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PAID
Item #16E2
EXTENDING, PURSUANT TO PROCUREMENT ORDINANCE,
SECTION 19, CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION, SUBSECTION 4,
CONTRACT EXTENSION, AGREEMENT NO. 17-7133 WITH
DIGITECH COMPUTER LLC FOR AN ADDITIONAL ONE-
YEAR PERIOD TO ALLOW STAFF TO COMPETITIVELY RE-
SOLICIT THESE SERVICES AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED EXTENSION
AGREEMENT
Item #16F1
RESOLUTION 2023-44: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES)
March 14, 2023
Page 216
Item #16F2
A REPORT COVERING BUDGET AMENDMENTS IMPACTING
RESERVES UP TO AND INCLUDING $25,000, AND MOVING
FUNDS IN AN AMOUNT UP TO AND INCLUDING $50,000
Item #16J1
APPROVE THE USE OF $5,000 FROM THE CONFISCATED
TRUST FUNDS TO SUPPORT THE NAPLES ETHICS AND
PUBLIC CORRUPTION CONFERENCE
Item #16J2
ESTABLISH AN AUDITOR SELECTION COMMITTEE AS
REQUIRED UNDER FLORIDA STATUTE § 218.391
Item #16J3
RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN FEBRUARY 16, 2023, AND
MARCH 1, 2023 PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16J4
REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
March 14, 2023
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PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF MARCH 8, 2023.
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2023-45: APPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
GOLDEN GATE CITY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ZONE
ADVISORY BOARD - APPOINTING STACY WELCH WITH
TERMS EXPIRING ON JANUARY 28, 2025
Item #16K2
RESOLUTION 2023-46: APPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
GOLDEN GATE ESTATES LAND TRUST COMMITTEE –
APPOINTING AARON ZWIEFEL WITH TERMS EXPIRING ON
OCTOBER 13, 2026
16K3
RESOLUTION 2023-47: REAPPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE
IMMOKALEE LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD
- REAPPOINTING MARK LEMKE AND EDWARD “SKI”
OLESKY WITH TERMS EXPIRING ON APRIL 4, 2026
Item #16K4
APPROVE A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE TOTAL
AMOUNT OF $100,000 PLUS $25,892.55 IN STATUTORY
ATTORNEY FEES, LITIGATION COSTS, APPORTIONMENT
ATTORNEYS’ FEES, AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR
THE TAKING OF PARCEL 191FEE REQUIRED FOR THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO.
March 14, 2023
Page 218
60168, AND DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO THE COUNTY
MANAGER OR HER DESIGNEE TO PROCESS PAYMENT OF
ADDITIONAL STATUTORY ATTORNEY’S FEES FOR
SUPPLEMENTAL PROCEEDINGS NOT TO EXCEED $3,000, IF
ANY, AS AUTHORIZED BY CH. 73, FLA. STAT.
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2023-48: ADOPT A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS
IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED
AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
****
March 14, 2023
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4: 14 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KIN EL, CLERK
hest as to Chairmans
Signature only
These mi.nu s approved by the Board on ` f - 1 I - 2,3 , as presented
or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
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