Agenda 03/14/2023 Item # 2B (Regular BCC Meeting Minutes from February 14, 2023)03/14/2023
2.B
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Item Number: 2.B
Doc ID: 24849
Item Summary: February 14, 2023, BCC Meeting Minutes
Meeting Date: 03/14/2023
Prepared by:
Title: Sr. Operations Analyst — County Manager's Office
Name: Geoffrey Willig
03/03/2023 8:59 AM
Submitted by:
Title: Deputy County Manager — County Manager's Office
Name: Amy Patterson
03/03/2023 8:59 AM
Approved By:
Review:
County Manager's Office Geoffrey Willig County Manager Review
Board of County Commissioners Geoffrey Willig Meeting Pending
Completed 03/03/2023 8:59 AM
03/14/2023 9:00 AM
Packet Pg. 12
February 14, 2023
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, February 14, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting
as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of
such special districts as have been created according to law and
having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m.,
in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government
Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following Board
members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
February 14, 2023
Page 2
Derek Johnssen, Clerk's Office, Finance & Accounting Director
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Who gives me a live one?
MS. PATTERSON: There we go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: There we go.
Good morning, everyone. Happy Valentine's Day. Don't yell at us
too much today; it's Valentine's Day. Keep that in mind, okay? It's
all about love, okay? All right? Keep that in mind when you come
to the podium.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As it should be.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll go ahead and get
started with the invocation and Pledge.
MS. PATTERSON: The invocation today, by Reverend Rex
Child, First Presbyterian Church Naples.
REVEREND CHILD: Good morning. In light of Valentine's
Day, my invocation prayer is based on love, so --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank God.
Item #1A
INNVOCATION BY REVENEND REX CHILD, FIRST
PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH NAPLES – INNVOCATION
GIVEN
REVEREND CHILD: -- following that theme. Yes, let's pray.
Oh, God, on this day we especially give thanks for love. We
celebrate the love we have with significant others, but may it also be
a celebration of all forms of love. The love we have for our families,
the family we're born into, as well as the family we choose.
Help us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Teach us to love
the poor and needy, the stranger and the outcast or anyone in distress.
February 14, 2023
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Give us the courage to love even our enemies for, as the Reverend
Dr. King said, love is the only force capable of transforming an
enemy into a friend.
Let love inform the way we speak to one another, and may love
guide the Board in its decisions today and all days. Most of all, oh,
God, help us to remember that you love each and every one of us and
that nothing can separate us from your love. Amen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd like Diane van Paris from our
community, very strong advocate and patriot, to lead us in the Pledge.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - APPROVED AND/OR
ADOPTED W/CHANGES – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: I'll take you through today's agenda
changes before we move on for any further changes.
First, move Item 16K8 to 12A. It's a recommendation to, one,
direct staff to provide written notice of a Bert Harris claim received
in connection with the Riviera Golf Course conversion application to
owners of real property contiguous to the owner's property pursuant
to Florida Statute Section 70.001(4)(a), known as the Bert J. Harris,
Jr., Private Property Right Protection Act; 2, direct the County
Manager to negotiate a settlement of the Bert Harris claim which may
February 14, 2023
Page 4
include a pre-suit mediation conference and return to the Board for
consideration of the settlement; 3, direct staff to issue a written
statement of allowable uses identified -- identifying the allowable
uses to which the subject property may be put pursuant to Florida
Statute Section 70.001(5)(a); and 4, direct staff to prepare an LDC
amendment of Section 5.05.15, conversion of golf courses, to
minimize the future litigation in connection with golf course
conversion process. This is being moved to the regular agenda by all
five commissioners at separate requests.
Not on your change sheet we do have one misplaced item for
correction here. Item 16J1, miscellaneous correspondence, is
misplaced. Its correct placement is 16I1.
We have a couple of agenda notes. Items 9A and 9B should be
identified as "all districts" rather than "District 2."
Item 10A, clarification, the grant reimbursement will not include
the $1,666,991.91 expended plus the pending expenses already
incurred and in process for payment.
Time-certain items today: Items 10A and 11A are companion
items to be heard at 9:30 a.m. This is the COVID-19 Extra Mile
Migrant Farmworker Community grant, and Items 9A and 9B,
companion items, to be heard at 10:00 a.m. This is the Collier
County Behavioral Health Center PUDZ and GMPA.
Just as a reminder, we have court reporter breaks set for 10:30
and 2:50, and we'll be taking a moment of silence at 10:17 in
remembrance of the Parkland issue.
That is all I have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Just one point of clarification, just
for detail. On the change sheet when it says 9A and 9B should be
identified as all districts rather than the District 2, my agenda shows
that it actually says District 3. So just maybe -- unless I'm missing
something.
February 14, 2023
Page 5
MS. PATTERSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But just for clarification.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, so it should have been District 3 if
we were saying it was only for the district.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. PATTERSON: But it was incorrectly districted and also
really is not a district-specific issue. It's an all district.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Got it. Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I guess, do I have a motion to
approve?
MS. PATTERSON: Any further changes and ex parte?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And adjustments.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we'll start with
Commissioner Kowal, do you have any changes to the agenda or --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any ex parte or disclosures?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Nothing for consent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't have any disclosure,
but I have four items on the agenda, 10C through 10F. 10C, I've
spoken with the Clerk, and I am going to ask that to be continued
after we have some discussion on it. So I just wanted to let the
public know and the Board know that 10C, I'm not going to be asking
for any action by the Commission, but I will be asking that that be
delayed when it comes up. No other.
February 14, 2023
Page 6
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No other changes -- no
changes, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, Commissioner Hall,
anything you have?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have 10A, and there was one
thing about the tax money that has already been used, the 166,000. I
don't wish to send that back.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep, I just made that correction for the
record.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay, good.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not thinking that required
ex parte either, by the way.
But I have no -- I have no ex parte on the consent and/or no
other additional adjustments.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And neither do I. I have
no changes or adjustment, so I guess we accept the agenda as-is.
MS. PATTERSON: With the changes, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So moved.
February 14, 2023
Page 7
Item #2B
BCC REGULAR MEETING MINUTES FOR JANUARY 10, 2023
– APPROVED – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2B is the BCC meeting minutes for
January 10th, 2023.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Make a motion for approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Motion for approval. Do
I have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously.
Item #3A
20 YEAR ATTENDEE – CHRISTINA PEREZ - PROGRAM
MANAGER BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE CRA –
ACKNOWLEDGED
MS. PATTERSON: We have one employee award. Is
Cristina here? She's not listed on the agenda. Okay. We have one
employee award that is not showing up here under 3A but is on my
list. Cristina -- 20 years with Cristina Perez, program manager
February 14, 2023
Page 8
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There we go. Oh, there she
is.
MS. PATTERSON: There she is.
No, she isn't. Okay, we'll move along.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good job, Cristina.
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah, good job, Cristina.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We love you. Happy Valentine's
Day.
MS. PATTERSON: Maybe she can visit us at the next agenda.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did she not know?
MS. PATTERSON: I don't know.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING FEBRUARY 18, 2023 AS A
NAPLES LIONS CLUB DAY IN COLLIER COUNTY.
ACCEPTED BY AUSTIN RAABE, PRESIDENT OF THE
NAPLES LIONS CLUB, AND OTHER DISTINGUISHED
GUESTS. MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS –
ADOPTED
Item 4 is proclamations. Item 4A is a proclamation designating
February 18th, 2023, as Naples Lions Club Day in Collier County.
To be accepted by Austin Raabe, president of the Naples Lions Club
and other distinguished guests.
Come forward.
(Applause.)
MR. RAABE: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
February 14, 2023
Page 9
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Put the rose between two
thorns.
MR. RAABE: A tall rose.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, would you like to say a few
words about the Lions Club? Okay.
MS. HILDMAN: Austin nominated me because I'm at level
with the -- with the mic as opposed to him.
So thank you very much, everyone. We're so appreciative for
the proclamation. My name is Cathy Hildman. I'm a recent Lion
addition, and I couldn't be more fortunate to be part of an
organization that serves many, many low-income families in Collier
County. We literally help them see and hear by providing free
programs for eye screening, ear screening, free eyeglasses, free
hearing aids along with educational scholarships for individuals to go
into the medical community and continue to serve our community.
So thank you so much for your recognition this day. We're
very appreciative. Have a wonderful Valentine's Day.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating
February 19th through 25th, 2023, as Engineers Week in Collier
County to be accepted by Kevin Dowty, past president, Florida
Engineering Society, Calusa Chapter, and other distinguished guests.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did you see the engineers, how
they all moved perfectly in unison? Did you see that? I don't know
if anybody caught that. It's very impressive.
MS. BICKETT: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioners.
This week we celebrate Engineers Week.
National Engineers Week was originally founded in 1951 by the
National Society of Professional Engineers. It is always celebrated
February 14, 2023
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at the time of George Washington's birthday in February in honor of
the first president's background as an engineer and land surveyor.
Engineers apply scientific and technical skills to the advancement
and betterment of human welfare.
Engineers are dedicated to ensuring a diverse, vigorous, and
well-educated workforce by increasing interest in engineering and
technology-oriented careers.
Through the field, we encourage our young math and science
students to realize the practical power of their knowledge. National
Engineers Week is dedicated to increasing understanding and
motivating youth to pursue engineering technology careers to support
the future engineering workforce.
On behalf of the Florida Engineering Society, the rest of the
Board, and our membership, I would like to say thank you for
recognition of the field of engineering and supporting engineers as
we celebrate Engineers Week. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, could we get a motion to accept the
proclamations, please.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
February 14, 2023
Page 11
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE MONTH FOR FEBRUARY 2023 TO NEW HORIZONS OF
SOUTHWEST FLORIDA. THE AWARD WILL BE ACCEPTED
BY DR. LINDA M. CUNNING, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. ALSO
ATTENDING ARE MICHAEL DALBY, CEO, AND BETHANY
SAWYER, VICE PRESIDENT OF MEMBERSHIP AND
INVESTORS, THE GREATER NAPLES CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE – PRESENTED
5A is a presentation of the Collier County Business of the
Month for February 2023 to New Horizons of Southwest Florida.
The award will be accepted by Dr. Linda M. Cunning, executive
director. Also attending are Michael Dalby, CEO, and Bethany
Sawyer, vice president of membership and investors, the Greater
Naples Chamber of Commerce.
MS. CUNNING: I want to thank you again. I'm Linda
Cunning with New Horizons of Southwest Florida. We serve
incredible K through 12 students who are very under-resourced in our
community, and so this -- I appreciate being Business of the Month
because we really have an honor and a privilege to serve incredible
students.
So since I have a crowd here, we always are open to volunteers,
so I just want you to know.
But thank you so much for your support through the years.
You've supported -- this is our 21st year, thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
February 14, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: Before we move on to Artist of the Month,
5B, Cristina Perez actually received her service award but,
apparently, anything that goes onto my change sheet I'm willing to
read into the record, so apologies there. It is correct that she has
received her service award. It was not her fault for not being here.
Item #5B
ARTIST OF THE MONTH – HILDA CHAMPION –
PRESENTED
All right. Item 5B is Artist of the Month. Commissioner
LoCastro, I believe you have the bio.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure. Yeah. Some very
interesting photography in the back. Our February Artist of the
Month is Hilda Champion. Ms. Champion is a German-American
fine-art photographer and has been a full-time Naples resident since
2001. She is mainly self-taught and, within a few years, has made it
to the top of the photography world.
Hilda observes the world and uses her camera as a tool to
express ideas and emotions. Her aspiration in photography is to
bring out the unseen and release the poetry of the ordinary. Her
images are the essence of what she sees free of distractions. Her
work has been shown in many national and international
competitions, and her images have won numerous awards.
Is Hilda here? Do we know, County Manager, if our Artist of
the Month is here?
MS. PATTERSON: She is not here. We were just reading this
and allowing everyone to see her art.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, very interesting
one-of-a-kind pieces in the back, so we thank her for her creativity.
February 14, 2023
Page 13
Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
That brings us to Item 7, public comments on general topics not
on the current or future agenda.
MR. MILLER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. We have five
registered -- excuse me -- four registered speakers on this item.
Your first speaker is Scott Sherman. He will be followed by Beth
Sherman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before we have the public
speakers come, several commissioners, maybe all of us, maybe just
me, got some emails from some citizens, and rightly so. You know,
citizens have an incredible attention to detail, keep -- you know,
we're going to be talking about things that are of concern to citizens
today. But I just want to assure everyone, to separate rumor from
fact, we have not changed anything when it comes to public speakers
here. So although we might have added some detail a year ago to
clarify some things, I can tell you, as chairman -- and I'm speaking
for every commissioner here. I don't think anybody would jump in
over here -- we value greatly what citizens say at the podium here.
At three minutes and one second, I can tell you at least in the year I'm
in this seat, I won't be kicking anybody off. I might say to wrap it up
or, you know, bring it in for a landing as we say in the military. But
I've said before, especially as a veteran, but I think as an American,
this is one of the most important pieces of this whole meeting,
whether we agree or disagree.
February 14, 2023
Page 14
So make no mistake, if there's confusion out there -- and we got
a bunch of emails, oh, my gosh, they're totally over -- we haven't
changed one thing. We haven't changed one thing.
But I appreciate citizens who catch a sentence tweak or
something of that nature. It was nothing more than a year ago just
clarifying the discretion the chairman has if we had a thousand
speakers all saying "vote yes or no," the Chairman does have some
discretion to say, hey, you know, do we want to pool your efforts?
But, you know, Mr. Sherman, what you're about to do is not
done in every country in the world, and this is what makes America
great. So the podium is yours, sir.
(Applause.)
MR. SHERMAN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just with one proviso. We
did start the clock while he was talking, so...
MR. SHERMAN: Okay. That would --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, absolutely. Troy, the red
light.
MR. SHERMAN: So what I came here to talk about this
morning is to apologize to the commissioners that I did speak out
about this rule change, and the reason I did that was last time I came
here to speak I asked this young man for someone to concede [sic]
time to me for general comments. He said, we don't do that
anymore, indicating that it was a new rule. I looked at the agenda,
and it had the specifications clarifying, so I thought that was when it
started.
Now, after I spoke out at CCREC, I was told by the two new
commissioners that we had not voted on that. We hadn't changed
any rules, just as you spoke. So I do apologize for misspeaking.
But what happened is, I looked back at all the last agendas all
the way to July of last year, and that was the first one I could find that
February 14, 2023
Page 15
had the clarification. It was July of last year, okay.
So -- but I do want to speak out about concerns that if you shut
down this -- our ability to speak at this meeting openly in an open
forum, it definitely is suppressing our right to free speech, because
we need to be able to have on the record that we told our County
Commissioners, because we are instruct -- we are supposed to, by
constitution, to instruct our government, and this is the best way we
have to do it. So thank you for the time. I won't waste any more of
your time. I am sorry. I will never lie to you, but I can be wrong.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Please have Mr. Sherman's
comments stricken from the record. No, I'm just kidding. Thank
you, sir. We are in full agreement.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman. She'll be
followed by Shelley McKernan.
MS. SHERMAN: Although you guys did not just vote on that,
I see it as a large concern that we're no longer allowed to concede
[sic] time in general comments. I say that because in the past two
years we've gotten -- and when I say "we," I mean we the people who
are fighting back against the agendas that are going on, not just in this
county, but all over the world, we couldn't have accomplished and
gotten half the stuff on the record that we did if we weren't able to
concede time.
And I'll just tell you a little quick story about a gentleman that I
met after speaking at the last commissioners meeting here. He was a
gentleman that was visiting from Germany. His friend was here
speaking on the Isles of Capri issue.
After we spoke, I probably had close to a dozen people come
talk to me who were speaking out on issues of the safety of the
vaccine, not a vaccine, but we'll get into that later. And I had almost
February 14, 2023
Page 16
a dozen people tell me that either them, their children, or people they
know have been harmed by the vaccine with myocarditis. And this
gentleman came up to me and he said, you know, I really -- my
country is lost. Germany's lost. He said, I always thought that the
United States was the last hope for freedom in the world. He said
he's wrong, that this county is, and that he had never seen so many
people come up and speak about topics like this. And he asked, you
know, what can I do to help from so many miles away? And I said,
just pray for us.
So anyone who is a believer, I just ask that you raise your hand
to the sky. I want to pray Luke 10:2 today over everybody. The
harvest is much, but the workers are few. Lord, thank you so much
for all the speakers, the protesters, and the vocal active citizens in this
county, Lord, and all over the world.
I ask that you exponentially increase their efforts and light a fire
in the hearts and minds of all who can hear this. Give hope to the
hopeless and faith to the faithless.
This necklace that I wear today has a mustard seed in it to
remind me that we only need faith the size of a mustard seed, and to
keep watering it, Lord.
So thank you so much for all your blessings. Thank you for all
the people in this room, and it is a full house. So thank you, Lord,
for all of that. Guide our thoughts, words, and actions. In Jesus'
name. Amen.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shelley McKernan.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Troy, just one second. So I just
want to clarify something there again to separate rumor from fact.
So citizens come to this podium for multiple things. So this is public
comment. They get three minutes. Ceded time is not possible for
public comment nor has it ever been. But when we're talking about
issues, like, perfect example is David Lawrence Center, our policy is
February 14, 2023
Page 17
the same as it's always been. That's when ceded time is allowed.
But public comment is three minutes, and if you want 20 people to all
speak on the same issue on public comment, all 20 have to be in the
room.
Ceded time, since the beginning of time in this room, I believe,
has only been for when there are speakers on issues that are on the
agenda, not the open public comment, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So nothing's been changed when
that -- for that issue. Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shelley McKernan.
She'll be followed by Daniel Zegarac.
MS. McKERNAN: Hello, council members. My name is
Shelley McKernan, also known as Sea Shelly, the Mermaid of
Naples, self-proclaimed.
I am here to talk about the water. All of our water is connected.
I can't imagine I can look at anybody in this room and they can say
they do not love water. We love our water here. We need our
water here.
All of our water is connected. All of our waterways inland are
impaired. All of our -- the Naples Bay, which is our county's
beautiful body of water, has added nutrients so much that it has an
overgrowth of algae, and it's only going to get worse over time.
This time of year it's actually the best time of year, and we see
major impairment that is going on with Naples Bay right now. You
can't see the bottom. The benthic mat is incredibly thick, and all
water has been displaced after the storm because of the sand that has
gone in through Naples Bay.
Now, why do I mention Naples Bay to the county meeting?
Well, because all water is connected, the City of Naples can't actually
completely fix the bay until it is addressed by the county. Certain
February 14, 2023
Page 18
things that the City of Naples has done is they have an advance water
treatment plant. The county doesn't have any of that stuff, and any
of that added nutrients and different things that are coming from
those treatment plants along with runoff from the road or anything
else, it just continues into the bay. So the bay can never be fixed
until the county addresses these added nutrients that are coming from
waterways from the county.
The FDEP has lowered the standard of water for the oxygen
level. The dissolved oxygen level is -- right now it's changed from a
dissolved oxygen level of 5 to a dissolved oxygen saturation of 2.5.
What qualifies life to be alive in water with oxygen? Life
needs five milligrams per liter of water to 20, and right now we
can -- everything can be acceptable 2.5 milligrams per liter of water,
and that is -- obviously, nothing can survive. Grass can't grow.
Shells won't grow. We won't get animals like dolphins and manatees
coming to our waterways anymore. It's actually kind of sad, and it's
showing that we don't love our water.
There are solutions. There are -- there's the advanced water
treatment facilities that all of our water plants can be adjusted to, and
then there are companies that can come and remove these nutrients,
and you can own the tech, and you can sell the fertilizer that is
collected from it, and there are solutions.
We need filters on lots of our waterways along with maybe even
addressing more of our microbial solutions that exist to work with the
benthic mat and to clean the water.
So I just ask you that we look into this a little bit more, we work
with the city, we work with Marco Island, and we show that we do
have love for our water.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
(Applause.)
February 14, 2023
Page 19
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Daniel Zegarac. He'll be
followed on Zoom by Katie Berkey.
MR. ZEGARAC: Good morning. My name is Daniel
Zegarac. Thanks for the pronunciation.
Chairman and Commissioners, I just want to say what a great
job Commissioner Kowal did in his recent address to Naples City
Council in regard to building our emergency berm. No doubt, great
communication and collaboration between Collier commissioners and
the Naples City Council will be necessary as we move through this
project and future Army Corps of Engineer projects and other future
projects.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: We have one more registered speaker on
Item 7, Katie Berkey. We have had a little trouble connecting with
her.
Katie, you're unmuted. Can you hear us?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Oh, wait a minute. I have a problem on my
end. Just a second, Katie. All right, Katie. Go ahead. Can you
hear us? Katie?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. I've lost Katie. Oh, there she is.
Katie.
MS. BERKEY: Oh, can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am, please. You have three minutes.
Go ahead.
MS. BERKEY: Oh, yes. And I think I'm misplaced. I'm
asking to speak regarding what was 16K8, which I believe is now
12A.
MR. MILLER: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. We will bring you back
February 14, 2023
Page 20
at that time. Thank you.
That's all we have, Commissioner.
MS. BERKEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Can we move to our
time-certain at 9:30.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So we have two companion
items time-certain at 9:30. We're just about there. By the time I
read them in, we'll be ready to go.
Item #10A
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE BOARD CONSIDER
REIMBURSING THE COVID-19 EXTRA MILE MIGRANT
FARMWORKER COMMUNITY GRANT, PROJECT (#33772)
AND DIRECT STAFF TO FIMD AN ALTERNATIVE FUNDING
SOURCE – APPROVED
Item #11A
REPORT TO THE BOARD OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
(BOARD) RELATIVE TO THE INFORMATION AND SERVICES
BEING PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC THROUGH THE COVID-
19 EXTRA MILE MIGRANT FARMWORKER COMMUNITY
GRANT – APPROVED
These are items 10A and 11A. I will read them in. We're going to
start with 11A, which is a report to the Board of County
Commissioners relative to the information and services being
provided to the public through the COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant
Farmworker Community grant.
Ms. Maggie Lopez, Community and Human Services interim
February 14, 2023
Page 21
director, will present that item. It will be followed by 10A, which is
a recommendation that the Board consider reimbursing the
COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker Community grant and
direct staff to find an alternative funding source. I did read a
correction into the record on this and the intent of the money going
back, which we'll discuss again when we get to 10A. But at this
time, we'll start with Ms. Lopez.
MS. LOPEZ: Commissioners, for the record, Maggie Lopez,
interim director for Community and Human Services. I'm available
for questions or I can do a presentation if you'd like. Presentation.
Okay. I'm new to this, so let me see. All right. We
were -- the staff was requested to do a presentation to the Board on
the information that is getting handed out to the community for the
Extra Mile award.
What I wanted to start out with reminding the Board is good
news for everybody that the federal government is planning to end
the COVID public emergency May 11th. The reason I want to bring
this up to the Board is this is going to allow us to have greater
flexibility with the CDC grant that we're doing. It's going to allow
us to do more work towards other areas that are important to this
community, like public health, doing referrals for primary care, and
getting away from promoting the vaccine and booster shots.
What I want -- another information that was asked of staff was
to report what kind of reporting were we doing to the federal
government in regard to this grant. What I wanted to report, in year
one and year two of our annual and semi-annual performance reports
were some of the data that we provide. One of the requirements
under this grant was to fund six community health workers, which we
were able to do in year two. Year one was the year we were
working towards recruiting our partners, Community Health
Network, or recruiting, training, and bringing them online, which
February 14, 2023
Page 22
happened in year two.
These are some of the numbers that we report on; the number of
organizations that are used to -- coordination with working to lead the
efforts on the messaging that is going out into the community, and we
also report number of individuals that are getting reached through the
community, which is primarily Immokalee.
And, again, a big part of this program is to do referrals for
primary care and other services, and so far in year two we've reported
75.
Other data referral collection information that we are reporting
are in other areas. I know the big focus right now is some of the
services that are controversial, but the other components that we're
also doing referrals are diabetes, hypertension, housing and shelter
emergency assistance, especially those affected by Hurricane Ian, and
giving assistance to other programs such as Food, SNAP, and WIC.
There was a concern -- and staff was asked to address how our
information that we are collecting and the data selection, how is it
getting protected, how is it being utilized. And what I wanted to
mention, incorporated in the grant, incorporated with this funding is
how the information is used and how it's protected by federal laws.
No particular information about a specific person, their location
is reported up the chain. Everything is -- everything is secured, and
the information that is shared is information that is required by law to
be provided to the Florida Department of Health.
What I wanted to also point out is now that we're in year two,
there are some planning changes that we are hoping to focus the
funds on. That is to use the carryforward funds that we have to those
Hurricane Ian victims. One of the drives and outreach events that
happened was to provide food and water to those affected and to also
allow them to know about resources available to them as residents
who may have been displaced by the hurricane.
February 14, 2023
Page 23
We're also looking to expand mental health services to Collier
residents and hoping to workshop that out so that we can be in line
with Collier County's mental health strategies. And we're also
collaborating with other agencies just to expand the referral systems
and to expand services into other priority populations, which would
be Everglades City, Goodland, Chokoloskee, and Copeland.
In your packet we also provided all of the educational materials
that have been provided out there to the public as far as resources that
are available to them, the locations of where they can get primary
care, locations about the vaccine location -- information about
symptoms that they may have, flu shot information, flu shot drives.
All of that was provided.
And I also just -- I can stop there, or I can keep going forward.
I don't know if there's any questions for the group that you would like
me to answer.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: How much more do you have on
your slideshow, I mean --
MS. LOPEZ: No. This was just going into the availability of
funds that we have in the agreement, just to outline that as -- the
Board can decide on termination of funds. And I think that was all I
have.
Again, just going into what the -- where we're trying to develop
the grant, going towards the work that the community health workers
are doing, the primary focus to go out there and engage on health
services within our community for those in the Immokalee area.
And that's the end of my presentation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, this item was brought
onto the agenda at your request to provide those -- answers to those
questions that came up two meetings ago. Now, as a companion to
this, we have Commissioner Hall's item, and we have a number of
February 14, 2023
Page 24
public speakers. So I think now is the time that we want to sort out
when we want to take those speakers. If they're -- do we have one
specific to this item, Troy, to 11A, or are they --
MR. MILLER: I have a rather large PowerPoint from -- I think
it's Ms. Kingston, and I know she's going to get a block of time, and
then I have 16 other speakers registered besides that.
MS. PATTERSON: On 10A or 11A?
MR. MILLER: They're just combined 10A/11A because
they're companion items.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, before we do
that, I have Commissioner McDaniel lit up here, and I really want to
give him the floor because, you know, the bulk of this is in -- it
affects all of us but, you know, the bulk of it is in District 5. So, I
mean, he's who I would like to hear from, and I think all the other
commissioners would agree. So, sir, the floor is yours.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm going to keep it
brief. You started this presentation off by -- and made a statement of
promoting the vaccine. Was that done?
MS. LOPEZ: It's promoting the effects of the symptoms and
resources available to getting the vaccine.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Because I feel fairly
certain with the new executive director of Healthcare Network that
there wasn't promotion of -- there was, I felt, a fairly balanced set of
information. There may be -- Mr. Kiley might not necessarily agree
with that balance, but with Jamie's coming into the Healthcare
Network, there seemed to be a better balance. But I have yet to see
what was being disbursed by the folks with Partners in Health prior to
his taking the seat at Healthcare Network. Was there ever -- to your
knowledge, was there ever promotional information put forward with
the vaccinations?
MS. LOPEZ: The information that we asked, everything was
February 14, 2023
Page 25
given and was included in your packet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. LOPEZ: It was not asked in a way to what was pre
or -- you know, or after. It was all information provided.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I understand. And
I'm just asking. This is a public hearing. We're going to make a big
decision here today. And I want to assure that we were disbursing
information about assets. That was the direction that I had given
when this Partners in Health group came to Collier County. That
was the direction that I had set forth that I wanted to be the choice to
the physician and the patient as to what their care and what the
requisites were and that we were -- we had these assets. And if you
wanted to wear a mask, here's where you go to get a mask. If you
wanted to take the vaccination, here's where you go to get the
vaccination.
I stood with the Governor of the State of Florida in Immokalee
when he stood up the monoclonal treatment facility in Immokalee.
There again, a proven successful treatment for folks that had
contracted the virus, and then the federal government ceased that
funding as well, because it was working so good. So the
bottom -- well, I'm sorry. That was a slant. I shouldn't have said
that. The bottom line is, I want to ensure that the intent never was to
promote, only educate, only share with patients/people where the
assets, in fact, were available.
MS. LOPEZ: And that is correct, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So I still -- and I've
read a lot. I just haven't been able to -- Mr. Ulmer was very kind to
share the information that was being disbursed by the Healthcare
Network and the promotoras after he came in, but I think there's an
issue with what was going on in advance of that with the previous
executive director. So -- and that was -- and I'm done.
February 14, 2023
Page 26
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wanted to add -- and maybe
in the comments from the Healthcare Network, you know, CEO, and
maybe if others are going to come to the podium. I get the COVID
piece and the citizen concern, and it's -- you know, and it has merit,
for sure. But also my -- where I would like a little deeper dive is
before we take a giant bite of the apple, my understanding is that
these funds do a whole lot of other things.
So, you know, I want to make sure that if we're going to do a big
giant knee jerk, we don't shut off -- or we realize that we'd be shutting
off a whole bunch of other things that have nothing to do with
COVID. And, you know, this -- everybody's saying the word
"COVID," but when you really look at the nomenclature here, it's the
Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker Community. I mean, it's mostly
based in District 5. So I don't know every moving part, but I know
there's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: District 4. There's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There is a huge component
throughout our community that support the agricultural industry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely. But, you know, so if
somebody could expand, and maybe Healthcare Network senior
leadership would be best to do that. I just want to make sure that
before we make any kind of decision we know actually what we're
voting on, and we're not sort of just isolating one piece and then
maybe killing a whole bunch of other things that have had a lot of
need. And I know you touched on it a little bit last time you were
here, but I think it's important to do the deepest dive possible so we
sort of measure twice and cut once and know exactly what we're
doing.
MR. ULMER: Good morning, and thank you for allowing me
to say a few words.
February 14, 2023
Page 27
Jamie Ulmer from Healthcare Network. And thank you for
your presentation.
To your point, Commissioner McDaniel, promotion is a very
distinguishable difference than education. Our fliers and
information, everything that's been requested, we wanted to make
sure that we were fully transparent and turned those over.
Those documents are purely education. The community health
workers are from that community. They're Haitians. They're from
Guatemala, Venezuela. They're from that entire area, and so they
speak their language. They walk and talk and eat and dine with
them.
They use the educational materials in their multicultural
languages to educate them. If they choose to seek further care,
whether it be a vaccine, whether it be more information on the
COVID differences of the vaccines, or whether it be to wear a mask
or not, the information is provided for them to be able to make that
decision. There's a difference between when we here in Naples
understand what the guidelines are or what information's being
provided and choose to receive care or not. But the folks in
Immokalee are different. They don't know whether they -- they're
not educated to that level to understand. And so all our material is to
do is to educate.
Promotion would be if we said, hey, we'll give you this if you
take that, and we never did that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good. Thank you for
sharing that --
MR. ULMER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- because, I mean, there was
a lot of promotion going on. We all know that there were gift
certificates and ball caps, and go get a friend, and we'll give you a
prize if you help somebody else get vaccinated. And I just wanted to
February 14, 2023
Page 28
ensure that that was never a direction that came from me.
And, again, this isn't covering up anything. This is just me
telling the truth about weekly telephone calls that I was on with our
Partners in Health and our Healthcare Network and my philanthropic
organizations in Immokalee, the Coalition of Immokalee
Farmworkers and RCMA and, oh, my goodness, every week we were
on a call working with the community. The promotoras were going
door to door, and I just wanted to ensure that that promotional aspect
wasn't put forth. So thank you.
MR. ULMER: And to your point, Commissioner LoCastro,
this grant is -- you know, the way that it was explained on the PHE
ending, this grant is about 75,000 people potentially receiving access
to healthcare. I really wish that we could have had the opportunity
to bring folks from Immokalee, but they're working. They don't
have transportation. They don't have the ability to be here to voice.
And so we are. My entire team is here to say, look, this community
needs access to healthcare, and this is where 95 percent of these
dollars are going to. The other 5 percent are for COVID-19
information. But think about where the remaining 95 percent goes
to to support transportation, to support being able to provide them
healthcare when we cannot afford it, nor can they voice. They're not
the ones in here today.
And so this grant is to help us fund, be able to do something that
we normally would not be able to do. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I appreciate that. I think the
concern of the citizens in here with the 5 percent -- I like how you
say that. And that might be arguable, but it's the smaller piece of the
bigger piece of the pie, of the grant, I think. We understand that.
But, you know, it's one thing -- and I'm not taking a position
here. I want to hear your comment to this. So it's great if
educational materials are given to the folks in Immokalee, and to
February 14, 2023
Page 29
your point, if English is their second language, they have a hard time
understanding things. If those materials came from an organization
that in some cases now is sort of backing down a little bit, some
would say, from when they initially said -- so it may not be
promotion on our part. And, you know, exactly what Commissioner
McDaniel is saying, we didn't line people up and say, or like you
said, take this shot when it comes to COVID and, you know, you
have to do it or whatnot.
But handing out materials that might have been questionable and
then were taken by those folks that maybe lacked education. English
wasn't their second [sic] language, I mean, I can definitely see the
concern by citizens who have CDC concerns saying, wow, someone
who read that, it almost would sound directional. Like, wow, your
government, you know, the top organization that runs health in the
United States of America says this. Read it, and then make your
own decision. And, you know, I think the concerns is a lot of people
that are in that description, you know, group that you mention in
Immokalee would take that maybe as a little bit of directional or,
wow, it's extremely educational, and then they would make a
decision. And some of those educational materials are now in
question, and that's what's being brought to us. And I'd like you to
just, you know, comment on that.
MR. ULMER: Well, you know, I would be the first to say that
I think that the material, obviously, needs to be updated as time goes
on. As the -- as the PHE ends and as the grant is continuing to be
awarded, I think that the focus is 100 percent on diabetes and patient
access, and the 5 percent is gone.
But my point that I'd like to stress to your statement or question,
Commissioner LoCastro, is that, you know, no one knew really what
COVID was going to be about, and --
(Audience interruption.)
February 14, 2023
Page 30
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Come on. Let's be professional.
MR. ULMER: And it is a learning process. And as we have
learned and as the materials that we were presented to present is what
we were presenting. Is it our intent to provide documentations or
educational materials to a group of folks that may not be true or that
may have some discrepancies? Absolutely not.
So with that being said, let's not punish the people who are
trying to get access with those dollars. Let's say, hey, look, we
obviously see that there's been some changes. Time has pursued,
and let's make that change. But let's not take away what's going to,
obviously, create something for that community.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I'm going to be a little lengthy here, but --
MR. ULMER: That's okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, I watched the
presentation, and, you know, you showed some slides and some
numbers, and I know that once the program started, you had a
six-month window to get a first performance measure report to
the -- back to the provider. And I got copies of that, and I believe
the other commissioners did.
And I looked at the numbers outside of the things connected to
COVID, and I didn't see an overwhelming amount of numbers. I
mean, even in the slide she just showed now, 5, 20. I mean, those
are not big numbers in these other categories.
Now, when you look at the month through April to August, the
biggest number I saw in the report was 500 tests for COVID. You
know, those numbers jump out when they're COVID related.
And, you know, we spent 166,000 and some change on this
program so far out of the money that was given to us. That's not a
big chunk of money, not when it comes to healthcare overall.
February 14, 2023
Page 31
MR. ULMER: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. And so however that
money was used or whatever happened with that money, it didn't
seem like it did a whole lot outside of the COVID portion of the
grant, if you're following me on that.
MR. ULMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And the other thing is, when we
provide information to people, we should provide information on
both sides, the pros and cons, and let them make a conscious
decision.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Let them make the decision,
because that's where the decision relies [sic].
And I understand what Commissioner LoCastro was saying,
sometimes these people aren't -- you said it yourself. They're not the
most educated people. But you looking like an official person
showing up and you hand them a document, and it's only one-sided,
they have a tendency to believe the one side that you're presenting
them, correct?
MR. ULMER: I absolutely understand.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And you stated before when you
stood before me at this podium -- and I do respect you for your
service, service to the country -- and you said you've been in
partnership with us in a partnership in the Immokalee area for 40
years.
MR. ULMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Forty years.
MR. ULMER: Over 40.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And you're saying now that we
just have six people hired that actually speak Creole, Spanish from
this community to help with our Healthcare Network?
February 14, 2023
Page 32
MR. ULMER: Only the community health workers. Our
entire organization --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: What did we do for the other 39
years?
MR. ULMER: Over 50 percent speak multicultural --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So we have people in
place that can perform these duties.
MR. ULMER: Right.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: The six that we hired are just
additional to the ones that can still perform the duties that we
can -- getting out there and working on getting these numbers from
20 diabetic cases up higher, correct?
MR. ULMER: No, sir. This team is specially designed to
actually go into the community and into someone's house. Our folks
that speak over 50 percent of the language work in our facilities.
They're not designed to go out into the community as a walk the
grounds down the dirt roads, down into the actual farmworkers where
they live, where they work. So this team is a lot different.
And your numbers, sir -- I do know that I could interpret and see
that those numbers may look low, but the teams were designed a
year -- approximately about a year -- eight months to a year after the
grant actually was awarded. The second is that we have a $400,000
request with the county as we speak. It's just that we're waiting for
this process before that can be awarded. So although it's 176-, it's
actually already up to about 700,000.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So the 166- we spent to get us
where we are today --
MR. ULMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- do you think, if you had this
planning and you brought it to us, and the Health Department brought
it to us as a Board of County Commissioners and said, this is a plan
February 14, 2023
Page 33
we need for the people in Immokalee and Everglades City and some
other areas -- because I saw several other areas in the report that
were -- you know, you did reach out to, do you think you'd probably
have a good chance of us saying, you know what, yeah, 166,000 for
healthcare to our community that can't be provided, we could
probably find that money somewhere, you know, and not
necessarily -- and I'm still confused as to why the county got the
grant, not the state.
MR. ULMER: Because the federal government oftentimes will
design a grant to go through a community or county entity so that it
shows that the support for this particular grant is there. If we could
have applied to that grant individually and by ourselves, we would
have, but it required a municipality, the county, the city, to actually
apply for the grant, and then we would be the sub-award recipient. It
was always planned that we would be the sub-award represent. In
most of our grants, we apply separately, and we would not be
standing here today; however, this grant is a little different. And so
it did have that requirement.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Just as a point -- and
you said it, Commissioner LoCastro, and you said it, Commissioner
Kowal -- these weren't official government people going and
knocking on doors. These were members of the community that
were hired through Partners in Health to go and educate the
population in these -- in these communities.
There is a huge citizenship issue. I said it out loud.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I agree.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And these people are trained
to not open the door when someone of official status shows up.
They don't do it. We had to issue -- in Irma there were people -- you
February 14, 2023
Page 34
should have saw the conditions that were happening when Code
Enforcement showed up to some of these manufactured homes that
were destroyed during Irma.
And so the premise -- just so you know, the premise was to have
members of the community that spoke in multiple languages go to
these camps, if you will, to these areas where migrant populations
live, and disburse through the different agencies that are, in fact, in
the community, as I already mentioned.
RCMA has a group of families that they work with. The
Coalition of Immokalee workers -- Farmworkers has a group. The
Guadalupe Center has a group of families who they know and trust
and receive information from.
So just to dispel that somebody of official status was showing up
and telling you that you should or shouldn't do something, it wasn't
the case. These were actually community members that lived in the
community that were hired through Partners in Health with the intent
of education.
Now, whether or not that was actually the fact, necessarily, we'll
all have to get to decide. But I just wanted to clear that up that it
wasn't a -- there wasn't a government official showing up and
handing you this information with the inference of doing one thing or
another, so...
All right. I'm good. I'll make a motion to accept the report
from Maggie. Do we need to do that or no?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor to accept the report?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
February 14, 2023
Page 35
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Accepting the report
carries unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. This moves us to Item 10A,
which is the companion. This is the recommendation that the Board
consider reimbursing the COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker
Community grant, and this is being brought to the Board by
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I bring this forward
because -- you know, it's already been said, so I'm not going to beat
the dead horse. But the three-letter agencies in this country don't run
it. The people do.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: And when the -- you know, no
government official showed up at their door, but the government
official showed up in information. And when you're a migrant
worker -- if I was in Mexico and I had information come to me, I
wouldn't want to do anything that was going to jeopardize me having
to leave, so I'm going to accept that as truth, and that's what several
of the commissioners have said.
So I bring forth this thing -- you know, I agree, some of the
other things that they could do with the money are really wonderful
things. You could do this, you could do that, you could do this, and
you could do that; however, there's been a year and a half, and only
$166,000 has been used, which is to hire people to spread the
information. Two hundred fifty-seven thousand of the first grant
hasn't even been used. And if we're going to do all of these other
February 14, 2023
Page 36
things, then we would be a -- there would be a backlog, or that money
would be used boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
So based on that, I'm bringing forth to send those funds back.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I make a motion. I make a
motion to send those funds back.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm seconding his
motion for comment. And the question I have for our county is, the
main concern with regard to these funds is the strings that are
attached to the federal government through the CDC or HHS with
regard to imposition of a mandate that was unconstitutional.
If we don't give back the received money, if we just cancel the
grant and don't take any more money, are we still not obligated on
that 166-, 176-, whatever it is that's been spent? Are we still
exposed to the terms and conditions of the grant?
MR. KLATZKOW: Barring a court order.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. KLATZKOW: I would tell them to pound salt.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I know what you would tell
them, and I know -- and, again, we've talked about this. I have
said -- I have never voted to -- let me finish. I've never voted to
implement a mandate or anything that was unconstitutional. I don't
think this Board would either.
Yes or no: If we don't send back the -- if you know the answer,
yes or no. I don't mean to be pointing at you. But, yes or no, if we
don't send back the already bequeathed money, are we still exposed
in the original language of the grant?
MR. KLATZKOW: Only if you get a court order.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. Yes. So, yes,
we are still exposed. So one of the things that I heard this morning
February 14, 2023
Page 37
was a change that we weren't proposing to send back the money that
we've already received?
MS. PATTERSON: We're not proposing to send back the
money that has already been spent. So the grant's been awarded, and
166,000 and some pending payments have been spent in accordance
with the grant requirements. What the proposal is is we send back
what's not been spent and we don't what has been spent, because it
was spent under the terms of the grant.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So, henceforth, if we don't
send that money back that we've already received, are we still
exposed under the terms and conditions of the grant? Because if
we're still exposed under the terms and conditions of the grant, there's
no reason to cancel the grant and the potential good that it could do
for our community if we don't -- if we don't cancel it and eliminate
the exposure at all.
MR. KLATZKOW: If you retain the funding, you have to
comply with the grant conditions. If you give back the money, I
would say that we're done, which is why I'm saying, barring a court
order, I think we're done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So my -- with -- I'm going to
withdraw my second if your motion was to cancel the grant and not
send back the money. I want the money sent back.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We still have a few commissioners
lit up here, and then I've got a couple questions, too.
So, Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can we clarify the motion
originally, just so I can withdraw my second if that's -- if that was
your motion?
COMMISSIONER HALL: The motion is to send back the
remaining money and not spend any more taxpayer money on what's
February 14, 2023
Page 38
already been spent that was already in compliance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Specifically --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Specifically the $166,000 and
change, that money was spent. We were in compliance. If we were
not in compliance, we would be exposed to it, but we were in
compliance with the information spread. So I don't want to spend
any more taxpayer money.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Nor do I, but I want you to be
very clear. I'm withdrawing my second on that, because we are still
exposed if we don't send back the already received and expended
money under the terms of the grant.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand. We are not exposed.
If we spent the money in compliance, there is no exposure. We
complied to the terms of the grant.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't agree.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The terms of the grant
specify that the recipient of the grant, if received a mandate or edict
from the CDC or HHS, we'd have to comply with that mandate or
edict, or we would be in noncompliance with the grant, not the
expenditure of the money. We are exposed if there was an ill intent
or misuse of the funds. That was a separate item. But the issue that
I have is the aggregate exposure that comes from -- the boilerplate
money that comes from the grantor, and that's where I want the
original 166-, whatever it is, I want it sent back, and then we have no
exposure to them whatsoever.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can we hear from Commissioner
Saunders? Did you have something you wanted to add?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, I was just trying to also
understand exactly what the motion is.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
February 14, 2023
Page 39
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And it seems to me -- and
this is just a question for the County Attorney and for Commissioner
Hall. It seems to me that $166,000 plus-or-minus has already been
spent. The question is, do we send $167,000 back in a check to the
federal government, or do we simply cancel the grant? And I think
that's the question we're trying to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Please, please.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- trying to understand.
Now, obviously, Commissioner Hall, you had said this, that we were
in compliance with the grant, so there shouldn't be any exposure if we
don't write a check to the federal government for $167,000. I think
that's what you're trying to say is --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- let's cancel the grant, but
let's not spend Collier County citizens' tax money to send money
back to the federal government when there's really no exposure, no
reason to do that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm just trying to get a
clarification.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I'll just say, here's the loose
end that I think Commissioner McDaniel's bringing up that -- I have
the same concern is, if you spent 167,000 and there were no strings
but the money was spent, now six months from now -- and this is
what the people are saying -- CDC all of a sudden sends us a whole
list of demands from all the people who spent the money, then we're
on the hook. You know, to me, it's all or nothing. I say we don't
play games with the government. If we don't feel like, you know, I
mean --
(Applause.)
February 14, 2023
Page 40
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, this is where we have
the power to do what we want to do here. And 167,000, we waste
that in five minutes in Collier County.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel,
sir, you have the floor.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You made my point. You
made it very adeptly. And I don't agree with the -- I do agree with
the thought process we're not exposed on how we actually expended
the money, but I don't agree that we're not exposed in the aggregate
terms of the grant that say if a mandate or an edict comes out of the
CDC or HHS we have to comply. I have no intent of complying
with them at all.
So if the motion maker can adjust his motion to send back the
money we've already got and cancel the grant, I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: A sidebar question would be the
other items that the monies has been explained to us has gone for,
even though the numbers, I agree, you know, I was expecting them to
be much more impressive. I really appreciate you pointing that out,
Commissioner Kowal.
Does the Healthcare Network or any other agency -- they always
have the ability to come to the county for additional funds or other
grant avenues that are nonfederal, right? I mean, there's other things.
Because I don't want the message here to be the 5 percent, or
whatever it is -- and that's arguable. But the percentage of money
that went to COVID and all the things that we're here debating, that
all the other things just shut down and go away if we think they have
merit. So, I mean, even -- if we decided right now whether we give
all the money back or we stop the grant or what have you, the
Healthcare Network, and even other agencies that benefited from the
grant for other things that don't seem to be arguable, they have the
February 14, 2023
Page 41
ability to come to the county, correct, or to pursue other nonfederal
grants to keep those programs going, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: They have the ability to pursue any avenue
of funding that they would like. As far as coming to the county,
remember that healthcare is not the county's primary business. And
there are very few lanes where we do provide those funding as
required by certain rules or laws or arrangements. But nothing
prohibits them from coming to the county. Whether or not that's the
county's role is a different question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And sometimes our role is
guidance. Hey, you've come to the wrong agency, but let's redirect
you to four other directions --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- and that sort of thing. Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I will amend the motion to return
the grant and to return all the monies. I was just merely concerned
about taxpayer monies. I didn't want to waste them.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I got you. And I'll second
that motion.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't see any other
commissioners lit up. So we have a motion and a second.
MS. PATTERSON: Sir, we have --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Public speakers.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Public speakers. Okay. How
many do we have?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sixteen.
MR. MILLER: I'm at a little bit of a loss. I've got a slideshow
presentation, Ms. Kingston. I was told that she wasn't doing -- and if
it's miss. or mister, I'm not sure. I was told they weren't doing a
speaker slip. So I thought they were going to present first. Are
February 14, 2023
Page 42
you, Ms. Kingston?
MS. KINGSTON: Yes.
MR. MILLER: I got it right, yay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One second.
MR. MILLER: And then I have 14 speakers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It would be my vote -- and all
due respect, dear Karen, that we not have this presentation from you
here today, and that if you -- if you wish, if you wish to have this
presentation, that you advertise and come back with a separate
agenda item for her to make a presentation with her representations
of the ill effects of the circumstances so that there are other members
of the community -- other members of the community who I shall not
name who are here in the room that have an opportunity to respond.
This -- this is -- her presentation has to do with us and this particular
grant. And I would rather we have another public hearing with
regard to that as opposed to this today, because it -- there's really
no -- there's no opportunity for a rebuttal. There is 50 percent of the
people in this room who have a different opinion with regard to the ill
effects of what's transpiring.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I wish to hear Ms. Kingston. She's
came from California to speak.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd like to. Stand by. Stand by.
Stand by.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hold it. Okay. We're not going
to turn this into a clown show, okay. We're trying to do this
professionally.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I agree with Commissioner
February 14, 2023
Page 43
Hall. We're here; she's here. Let's go ahead and get through the
whole process. There's no reason -- I don't believe there's any reason
for an agenda item in two or four weeks to discuss the same topic.
So I agree with Commissioner Hall on that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I do as well. Commissioner
Kowal, do you have any comment?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I agree also. I mean, this is
the time and the place, let's hear everything.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, we're here to get this done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's already done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I don't disagree.
Just a reminder, at 10:17 the governor has directed that we take
a moment of silence, so I'll stop us at the appropriate time.
(A video was played as follows:)
Probably almost every American would be surprised to hear
these COVID-19 mRNA vaccines specifically are associated with an
increased risk of appendicitis; they're associated with an increased
risk of bells palsy; they're associated with an increased risk of
shingles, which can be severe in some cases; they're associated with
changes in sperm motility and sperm function and sperm count; and
most recently we're finding that they are present in breast milk, even
though an earlier study published in a journal -- the American
Medical Association reported that they were not in breast milk.
And by the way, the reference for the increased risk of things
like appendicitis and bells palsy, et cetera, comes from a paper that
was published in the New England Journal of Medicine.
So one of the things that I and other people did during the
pandemic that distinguished -- as we were talking about
Dr. Bhattacharya early -- is that we tried to be honest, and we called
things out when they were not honest.
Probably almost every American would be surprised to hear
February 14, 2023
Page 44
these COVID-19 mRNA vaccines specifically are associated with an
increased risk of appendicitis.
(The video ended.)
MS. KINGSTON: That's it. Thank you so much. Yeah,
that's it.
So that's Surgeon General Ladapo, your surgeon general of
Florida. Hi. I'm Karen Kingston. I'm a biotech analyst, med legal
advisor.
And that was just Surgeon General Ladapo. How do I get this
to full screen?
MR. MILLER: You're good. Just space bar.
MS. KINGSTON: And as he was saying, that the federal
government and representatives of the federal government weren't
always honest. And I'm honored to be here to speak to you,
Commissioners. I'm honored to be in a free county in the United
States of Florida. So thank you for having me.
My colleague in San Diego have been arrested for speaking out
at the commissioners meetings. So I feel safe here, so thank you for
that.
And I'm going to do -- I'm going to go through this pretty
quickly, but I do want to address these materials on the right-hand
side. That chaotic piece that you see, that is one of the materials
from the NIH for the COVID-19 education. And I agree, this isn't a
promotional piece, because in promotion, in my industry under the
law, you have to provide fair balance, and fair balance is what your
Surgeon General just said.
So on every one of these pieces, it would have to say you're at
risk for a heart attack, you're at risk for inflammation of your brain
and final cord, you're at risk for having a stroke, you're at risk for
having a reduced sperm count, you're at risk for having a spontaneous
abortion, you're at risk for being infertile. And none of that was
February 14, 2023
Page 45
provided.
And what's happened in America is many families, individuals,
and counties delegated the responsibilities of taking care of one
another to the federal government. And when people and
institutions don't have good intentions, or their intentions aren't in
alignment with yours, they often will say things that, as Surgeon
General Ladapo said, are not honest.
And so I'm going to go through the materials real quick, and
then I just want to go into what your Surgeon General has
emphasized, which is that the safety needs to be taken into
consideration in regards to the efficacy of these biological injections.
So I want to show you some of the materials that I used to get paid
from big pharma to look at and then to create materials to educate
doctors, and I want to share that information with you that's been
filed with the FDA.
So let me just figure out how to do this.
MR. MILLER: Just space bar should work.
MS. KINGSTON: Space bar.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One quick question: Did
you email this presentation to us yet?
MS. KINGSTON: Yes, I did. It's been emailed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So it is available online for
anyone that wants it?
MS. KINGSTON: Yeah, it is.
So this is from Mr. Uller [sic]. The letter says, again, if
someone's intentions aren't in alignment with yours, they'll tell you
what you want to hear, and I think it's very clear that the
commissioners said, look, if we're going to work with the NIH, we've
got to be very clear, we're not going to adhere to mandates such as
mask wearing, and we don't want promotion of the vaccine.
So in the letter from the Healthcare Network, it clearly states at
February 14, 2023
Page 46
no time are they going to promote the mask wearing or being
vaccinated, yet the materials say, wear a mask; yet it says, get
vaccinated, from the CDC; yet, the materials from Moderna say, this
is -- you're being offered a vaccine. So, I mean, I think it's
reasonable to assume that maybe they're not being -- they're being
disingenuine a little bit. So we don't know what's going on in the
brick and mortar. We don't know what's going on in the mobile
units. But -- and then for the Pfizer one, it was to offer it to children
12 and older.
And Surgeon General Ladapo recommends strongly against
injecting the children as well as strongly against injecting men under
the age of 39.
And I take a look at the materials that he -- the analysis that
Surgeon Ladapo had done for young men under the age of 40 who
had cardiac-related death, and we're going to go into that. So what is
these adverse outcomes that they're speaking of? I'm sure many
people have heard of the vaccine adverse event reporting system, and
it's said to represent about 1 percent of the actual events.
And you can see here there's urgent care hospitalizations, heart
attacks, myocarditis. And they call this adverse event reporting
system, except adverse events are unintended consequences. It's
stuff that happened that wasn't expected. And when it is expected,
which I'm going to show you that they knew this was coming, it's
deceptive in nature and criminal in nature. And these numbers do
not properly reflect the actual numbers in the United States.
There was an early app that was called the V-SAFE database
where 10 million doctors who got injected, and 7.7 percent of those
10 million had an adverse event; over 500,000 of them had to go to
urgent care. That was just in the first couple months of the rollout,
which is 10 million. There's only 200,000 going to urgent care and
hospital in VAERS after two years on being available.
February 14, 2023
Page 47
So, again, VAERS is supposed to be adverse events or
unexpected. But on October 22nd, 2020, the FDA met with
industry, including Pfizer, and they said, here are the outcomes of the
mRNA COVID-19 injections. As you can see, it includes birth
defects, stroke, seizures, convulsions, swelling of the spinal cord,
myocarditis, myocardial -- myocardial infarction, and death.
So this was based on both the Phase 1, 2, and 3 trials, but it
wasn't based on use of mRNA lipid nanoparticle technology in
cancer. I'm sure people have heard. This technology isn't new. It
was used in cancer. And so they knew these events were going to
happen because those people had two weeks left to live. So it was a
reasonable risk if they had a risk for death. It's not a reasonable risk
to put someone at a risk for death, stroke, heart attack, or
permanently being disabled when they have their entire life in front
of them, especially a six-year-old child. This was in clear violation
of the food and drug safety laws.
So under Phase 1 trials, if you're going to put a human being or a
child at unnecessary risk for illness or injury, it's against the law.
They knew this. This is a June 2020 -- 2021 meeting with the
FDA with Pfizer and industry, and they talked about doing the studies
in children. What did they say? They said --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am -- can I just make one
correction.
MS. KINGSTON: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You're addressing us, not briefing
the crowd.
MS. KINGSTON: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so used to
doing that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's a small little technicality.
Everybody hears, but just so we can keep protocol.
MS. KINGSTON: I'm so sorry about that. Thank you for
February 14, 2023
Page 48
correcting me, Commissioner LoCastro.
So they -- in June 2021 what happened is they met with the
industry, and the FDA had said, look, we can't conduct a clinical trial
in children because children don't get the disease. It's statistically
infeasible or impossible to make a vaccine that's going to be more
effective than a child's natural immune system. So that was clear
violation putting the children at risk.
And, again, under 21 USC 355, the risk evaluation and
mitigation strategies, it has to show that the benefit outweighs the
risk. And, again, for healthy people, for children, for adults,
basically for 99.9 percent of Americans, the benefit did not outweigh
the risk with these injections, and the risk was .1 percent per
Dr. Anthony Fauci from February of 2020 in the New England
Journal of Medicine. He published his public opinion.
And the real risk was for people 85 and older who had a case
fatality rate of between 10 and 27 percent. The fatality rate in that
age range was 13 percent. So, overall, the rate of dying from
COVID-19 was similar to your age group unless you were under the
age of 19; then there was absolutely -- there was no risk.
So getting back to your Surgeon General Ladapo's study on the
adults with cardiac-related death related to the injections, he looked
at both adults and women. And I don't -- we don't have a ton of
time, but we concluded that men under the age of 39 had an
84 percent increase of risk for having cardiac-related death.
I want to just show everyone the numbers here that you can see.
He took a look -- what he did is he looked at the Florida database of
everyone that had a cardiac-related death that had a COVID-19
injection. Dr. Ladapo had excluded anyone that got a booster shot or
more. So you can only have one or two shots. He excluded anyone
who had a COVID-19 diagnosis, and he also excluded anyone that
had a history of cardiovascular disease. So it was very, very limited
February 14, 2023
Page 49
numbers. And he looked at the number of deaths for people who
died within six months of an injection, and the risk period was within
four weeks, or 28 days.
What you can see is that with that stringent criteria, he found
that over 16,000 men and women died from a cardiac-related death
from a COVID-19 injection within six months and over 3,400 within
four weeks. This is why he recommends against it.
What I want to show is, like, why the federal government is not
being honest with us. In the VAERS database, over a period of two
years across our entire nation just for the United States, they have
16,000 deaths in total, in total, not -- you know, related to all the
different diseases that's related to the COVID-19 injections, and
when your Surgeon General took a close look at his state alone, he
found over 16,000 just with cardiac-related within a six-month
period.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, can we just take a pause
right there. Let me just read something from our governor, Ron
DeSantis.
It says, whereas, on February 14th, 2023, marks the fifth
anniversary of one of Florida's darkest days when 17 innocent lives
were lost in a massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglass High School
in Parkland, Florida.
Now, therefore, I, Governor Ron DeSantis, governor of the State
of Florida, by virtue of the power and authority vested in me, ask all
residents of the state of Florida to pause for a moment of silence at
10:17 a.m. on February 14th.
(A moment of silence was observed.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: God bless those children and
families. It's a tough act to follow.
MS. KINGSTON: Yeah, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You're back on.
February 14, 2023
Page 50
MS. KINGSTON: Sorry. So I'll resume. Thank you.
Let me put my timer on, because I can be verbose, as you can
imagine. I'll wrap it up in three minutes.
So many people may or may not be aware that it's the spike
protein, you were told early on, that causes the inflammation, disease,
and death. And related to Surgeon General Ladapo's research, recent
publication from the American Heart Association of July of last year,
they stated, it is the spike protein that causes heart damage, and they
found that the spike protein causes heart damage independent of what
they call binding to the A2 receptors. It is actually a pathogen. It
causes cytokine storms and inflammatory responses in the body.
And independent of binding to any A2 receptors, it binds to
inflammatory receptors, and it also attacks the heart directly, so it is a
biological weapon, if you will. It causes disease, disabilities, and
death.
I also just wanted to point out that in November of 2020, under
the adult study that Pfizer had submitted in that trial that there were
100 children ages 12 to 15 who had reactogenicity response to their
injection. And Pfizer stated that they wanted the FDA to cover up
the data. They said the data was not favorable. Do not disclose it.
This is criminal. It is criminal, because this is what reactogenicity
data is. It's the outcomes, the negative, harmful outcomes from the
injections.
So in October 2020, they knew this was going to harm children.
They knew that there was no benefit to vaccinating children even if
they had a safe vaccine.
So this should have never happened to Maddie de Gegray. She
was 12 years old. She was part of the Phase 3 trial for 12- to
15-year-olds. She's now in a wheelchair and on a feeding tube, and
there was a number of other children who have been harmed and
disabled and killed.
February 14, 2023
Page 51
So then when the FDA approved the product, they said that they
knew that it causes heart inflammation, myocarditis, pericarditis.
They said an important potential risk is vaccine associated-related
disease, which is probably why more people in the hospital with
COVID-19 are vaccinated than unvaccinated, because it enhances
disease.
They said the missing information was vaccine effectiveness.
See, they don't know if it's going to ever work in the real world.
And Moderna said the same thing and actually tripled down. They
said, not only do we not know if it's effective, we don't know if it's
long-term effective, and we don't know if it's safe. This was never
disclosed in any of the materials that anyone was given.
So it's supposed to prevent against infection. After the FDA
approved Pfizer's injection, they did a post hoc analysis nine months
out of the injected group and five months out of the placebo group
was injected. And the analysis said, it appears that the risk of
COVID-19 injection increases over time post dose two. So it causes
infection.
This is a study of 51,000 employees at Cleveland Clinic, and it
shows that in two doses, your risk for infection over a three-month
period triples, and if you had more than three doses, it quadruples.
So this absolutely causes infection.
Also, in regards to workers, there was a bivalent study that was
done, and it showed after people got the bivalent booster, one out of
five couldn't go to work till the next day or potentially who knows
how long.
Also, the efficacy is based on 170 people; 170 people out of
42,000 in total and it -- the two study groups were 18- and 18-, so
36,000. What this means is that if you got the injection, you had a
1 percent risk of not getting infected two months out. If you didn't
get it, you had -- sorry -- less than a 1 percent infection [sic] of not
February 14, 2023
Page 52
getting infected, and your reduction in risk between both groups was
less than 1 percent. Clinically it means nothing. Statistically it is
insignificant.
And I think just one of the other things I was going to show is
that here in Florida -- if I could go back. Here in Florida in, I
think -- I believe in July of 2021 was when Biden did the mandate,
the COVID-19 mandate. The excess morality rate from the Society
of Actuaries showed that Florida was hit the hardest in Q3 of 2021
when the mandate went into place, almost a 200 percent increase in
overall mortality. The vaccines are not -- are not working. And the
group that's hit the hardest is actually -- is young working adults over
the country.
So an experimental biological agent that does not prevent
disease, does not protect against disease, was done under deceptive
and criminal research and actually causes harm is technically a
biological weapon, and more and more people are becoming aware of
this. I just want you to show your -- the Commissioners here that
you can see, per Pfizer's public filing, they produced the spike
protein, Wuhan Institute of Biology's spike protein. That's what the
vaccine does. Pfizer says on their website the mRNA turns the
human cells into manufacturing bio-weapon facilities because the
spike protein actually is the bio-weapon.
And it crosses the blood-brain barrier, kidneys, heart, lungs,
tongue, and into the brain and spinal cord. And under Florida State
law, basically, a biological agent that's capable of causing death,
disease, or other biological malfunction in a human is a bio-weapon.
So the work that was done by the CDC and the three
government agencies was deceptive in nature, and under the guise of
public health and wellness, people have been exposed to biological
experimentation that is harmful. And, you know, this is all the
evidence that is available on government websites. People have
February 14, 2023
Page 53
simply been deceived. But once you recognize that people have
been harmed under criminal and a deceptive and illegal
experimental -- biological experimentation, it's important to
acknowledge that a crime has been committed, and people are going
to be held to account, and the residents of Collier County, as Surgeon
General Ladapo has said, have the right to know this information.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: All right, sir. We have 14 public speakers.
Your first speaker -- and I'm going to call more than two names at a
time, because we have people in both of our overflow rooms right
now. So if they're there, they're going to need time to get over here.
Your first speaker is Carol DiPaolo, followed by Beth Sherman,
then Lisa Johnson, and then Barry Hoey.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll remind the speakers, we
already have a motion on the floor and a second heading in a
direction that's clear, I believe. But we want citizens to be heard, as
we said at the start of the meeting, and they will be.
MS. DiPAOLO: Good morning, Commissioners, county
officials, and members of our community. My name is Carol
DiPaolo. I am chairman of the Medical Freedom Subcommittee of
the CCREC and a resident of Naples.
I want to thank Commissioner Kowal, Commissioner Saunders,
Commissioner LoCastro, Commissioner McDaniel, and
Commissioner Hall for your time. I don't envy your position as
commissioner. It's a difficult one. You must, at times, make
serious decisions that, at times, affect the lives of many.
Like a famous king in the greatest book ever written, King
Solomon, who was known for his wisdom in making decisions, I
hope that today you will have the wisdom of Solomon to make a wise
February 14, 2023
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ruling in this proceeding.
We know that Collier County was the only county in Florida
that applied for the Extra Mile Migrant Farmworkers COVID-19
grant and received funds in the amount of 1.2 million from the
NIH/CDC. We know that the funds went to sub-recipient Partners in
Health that provides healthcare and health education for the
underprivileged in the Immokalee area.
We know that in the written CDC material distributed by
Partners in Health to this underserved population there is information
pertaining to the COVID-19 injections.
We know that the information states the injections are safe and
effective. We know that this is misleading information since the
vaccines are neither safe nor effective.
We know that our Florida Surgeon General Dr. Joseph Ladapo
strongly recommends that healthy children and males between the
ages of 18 and 39 do not be administered these shots because they are
not safe.
We know that a vaccine is supposed to prevent disease, prevent
disease transformation, and is supposed to do no harm. We know
that these shots do not meet this definition. We know that these
shots have been harmful to many.
I would like to ask just three questions, and these questions will
be directed not to the commissioners but to the people in this room.
How many of you know someone who took the COVID-19 shots?
Raise your hand, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, no. Speak to us, ma'am,
please. We're not taking votes.
MS. DiPAOLO: Okay. How much of you know someone
who --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, you're speaking to us.
We're not taking votes.
February 14, 2023
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MS. DiPAOLO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ask us your questions.
MS. DiPAOLO: The last question that I really have to say is,
well, how much of you commissioners know someone who regrets
taking the shots? How many of you know someone who has been
injured by taking the COVID-19 injections?
Okay. And this I just have to say, if you strongly recommend
that all commissioners return the $1.2 million, I would just hope that
maybe people would stand up and show their support to this.
I implore every commissioner to listen to your constituents,
understand our concern for those in our community that do not have a
voice, the migrant farmworkers and the underprivileged.
Here I'll plea to break our ties with the NIH/CDC, and return the
funds. Please make a wise decision today.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman. She'll be
followed by Lisa Johnson, Barry Hoey, and then Scott Sherman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to hear from
Mrs. Sherman, and then we're going to take our 10:30 break and then
resume with the speakers.
MS. SHERMAN: I actually had time conceded [sic] to me
from Ms. Lisa who's next, if you can double-check that.
MR. MILLER: She did not indicate that in any way, but I'll
be -- is she here? Ms. Johnson, are you here? I will cede her your
time.
MS. SHERMAN: Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chris Hall, for allowing Karen Kingston time to
speak and putting this back on the agenda, and thank you to four out
of the five of you commissioners who took the time to meet with
Karen; we very much appreciate that.
Thank you, Commissioner Kowal. You asked some really great
February 14, 2023
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questions at the last meeting, and we truly appreciate that, especially
your comments today.
I'd like to start by apologizing to all five of you, which may
come as a surprise, but I would like to say that angerness and
bitterness has really come over me in the past couple years after I've
been up here so many times fighting and putting a lot of this
information on the record that Ms. Karen Kingston has told you
today. None of this information that she's presented to you is new,
so you cannot say that you didn't know any of this.
It's really sad that you guys have completely ignored us until
now. I want to thank the two new commissioners. It took getting
two new commissioners up there to get this back on the agenda and
to have our voices heard, so thank you very much.
And in the spirit of Valentine's Day, you know, some people at
the beginning were talking about love, well to me love is truth. So
this is kind of impromptu, but Mr. Jamie here from Partners in
Health, you know, it seems like you guys -- whether you send the
money back or not, it seems to me that you plan on still working with
Partners in Health. They've been in the community for 40 years.
Let me tell you a little bit about Partners in Health and who
they're run by. They're run by a man whose name is Jim Yong Kin.
He is the former director of the W.H.O. He was the 12th president
of the World Bank. He was nominated by Hillary Clinton and
appointed by Obama.
Let me tell you some of the partners that fund Partners in
Health. And I keep getting, you know, called misinformation. This
is all public information. If you go to Partners in Health website,
you can pull all of this up that I'm speaking about. Bill and Melinda
Gates Foundation; the CDC; Open Societies, which is George Soros;
Facebook; Google; Pfizer and nearly every other pharmaceutical
company that there is; the World Bank, Disney; the insurance
February 14, 2023
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companies and most of the biotech companies; the W.H.O.; the U.S.
Department of State; and the United Nations.
Is that really an organization that we need in our county?
Regardless of what happens today with the money being sent back,
Partners in Health needs to take a hike out of this community. This
is the most conservative county in the state of Florida, and we don't
want to be doing business.
Let me -- oh, one other thing. Chelsea Clinton is actually on
their Board. I find that interesting. And there are some other
people on the Partners in Health board who are on the Board for the
Clinton Foundation.
Let me tell you one thing that Partners in Health has done in the
past two years with the COVID money. They partnered with
Healthcare Network and other businesses, other NGOs who, for the
moment, shall remain nameless. But some of you remember when
this all started out in Immokalee, that the case numbers were driven
up and a big panic had ensued because there were so many positive
cases in the county, right? Let me tell you how they did that. They
took a bunch of money, and they offered the people in Immokalee, if
they had a positive -- a positive case, positive COVID test that they
brought forward, they received 400 to $1,200 per person for that
positive case, and they rushed the funds so that they received it
within five to 10 days.
So that, my friends, that is how the case numbers started in this
community. This is not an organization that I, personally, along
with we the people, want to have anything to do with this in this
community. If you go back on their website and look at all the
research and all the work that they've been doing across the world in
the third world countries, it's pretty nefarious, my friends. Like, all
you have to do is actually read. People want to know where I get all
this information. I read. It's not hard. Go to their website. I
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implore everybody, go to their website, click around a few times.
Spend 15 minutes on there, and you can verify every single thing that
I've said here today.
Now, according to Karen's data that she provided to you in your
email, she stated that 90 percent of people in Collier County got one
shot, and 70 percent of people received two shots or more.
We know that there's a lot of people who have died or have
suffered adverse events. I personally know several people. I know
someone who died in their sleep. I know people who have had
serious reactions. All of that was in the Pfizer paperwork.
What we don't know is what the long-term side effects will be.
Our county and sheriff, we need to work together as a team to stop
the distribution of this within our county. We need to stop taking
government grants that tie us to evil. We need to stop using
subcontractors like Partners in Health -- and, boy, I'll have a list of
other ones that I recommend we stop working with because they're
funded by the globalist agenda.
This county signed on to Agenda 21, the contract, in the '90s
with the United Nations. I think it's high time as a county we stop
doing business with criminals including, but not limited to, the
United Nations, the CDC, the W.H.O., the WEF, the DOJ, and the
FBI. I know that this county personally has other contracts that
you've -- that I have fought in the past years with the DOJ and FBI.
I'll be bringing that back at a later date, because it's unrelated to this.
The only thing necessary for evil to -- for evil to triumph is for
good men to do nothing. Many of you are retired military, and with
the evidence that you have been presented, I ask you to uphold your
vow to protect our country from all invaders, foreign and domestic.
With that said, we want you to void the contract and send back
all the money, like Commissioner LoCastro said. Let's just wash our
hands clean of this. Ephesians 5:14: Wake up, sleeper. Rise from
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the dead, and Christ will shine on you. Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to take a break, but
just for clarification to the other folks that are signed up to speak, we
have a motion on the floor and a second, and I believe, Commissioner
Hall, rather than me summarize the motion as I believe it to be, why
don't you restate it for the crowd, the motion you made, and that was
seconded.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The motion was to send the money
back, all of it, and cancel the grant.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. And that was seconded.
And I can't speak for the other commissioners, but I support that
extremely strongly. So does Commissioner McDaniel. So we don't
want to close -- you know, we want to hear from -- if you want to
speak, but if you don't feel it's necessary or you're going to be
redundant with other speakers -- but we're going to take a break and
come back at 10:45. Take a 10-minute break.
Thank you.
(A brief recess was had from 10:35 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If everybody could please take
their seats. Please take your seats. We'd like to get started on time.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your next registered speaker is
Barry Hoey. He'll be followed by Pastor Anthony Thomas, then
Scott Sherman, and then Jill Kiley.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Please take your seats.
Everybody talking in the back, appreciate it if you'd please take your
seats.
Before we get started with our next speaker, it's clear we have a
motion on the floor, a strong one; it's been seconded. I've already
said that I concur with the motion and the second. I'm not here to
February 14, 2023
Page 60
stifle any citizens, but I want to hear from the other two
commissioners if they would like to make a comment on the motion
and the second. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I was going to second it. You
know, when we had the new motion on the floor, I was going to
second it myself. You beat --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Jumped in front of you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And we'll wait for
Commissioner Saunders. But I only say that -- so speakers are
welcome to be heard, we're not stifling anyone, but if something's
about to pass and it meets with your approval, then you don't feel like
you need to speak at the podium, fine. If you still want to be part of
the process and be heard, that's fine, too, obviously. If I could have
everyone's attention. Can I have everyone's attention, please. Or if
you're in opposition to what the vote might be, then, you know, we
want you to be able to take the podium.
But, you know, it's obvious that if it looks like we're about to
have a unanimous decision on something the citizens have taken time
to bring to our attention and it's going to go a certain way, then you
might not feel the need to just be redundant and comments that have
already been heard that have been very influential in our possible
unanimous vote.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I missed the first part, and I
apologize. I was running into the room here. I'm going to support
the motion. I suspect that it probably will be a unanimous vote
based on the conversation. So if there's an issue of perhaps
shortening the public comment a little bit so we can move on to some
other items, that's fine with me. I am going to vote for the motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So just to summarize, we're not
February 14, 2023
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going to do anything sort of half speed here. The motion is full
return. You know, there's no strings. There's no aftereffects, and
the people have been heard, the commissioners have listened. And
so it looks like, you know, talking to all of my colleagues here, that
we've got a motion and a second and what looks to be a unanimous
vote when I call for it.
Having said that, sir, you know, the podium's yours, and if you
choose to speak then we will -- we are all ears.
MR. HOEY: Thank you. My name is Barry Hoey. As many
of you know, I'm a real estate broker here in Southwest Florida.
And one thing I've noticed since 2020 and that -- when the
plan-demic started, the amount of people that wanted to move here to
Southwest Florida, and the reason for that is because they trust that
when they move here that everybody is going to be doing the right
thing. They see Southwest Florida as a place where our freedoms
are valued, where our politicians -- our representatives will do good
work on their behalf.
You know, I was shocked, as were many, to learn that Collier
County was -- had, you know, received funds from the CDC at the
time. You know, if you look at the big picture with all of this, it's
very clear -- it should be very clear to everybody that Fauci lied, Birx
lied.
All of this has been -- you know, this has been going on for
many years. I won't get into that. I don't want to look like a
conspiracy theorist. But what I will tell you is that conspiracy
theorists have proven to be right, especially in the last number of
years.
All of these three-letter agencies that have become corrupted
with the different cabals across the world, the CDC, you know, gave
this money to Collier County, and Collier County -- you know, we
talk about people that are vulnerable in our society. We have kids.
February 14, 2023
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These farmworkers are vulnerable, because the plan-demic created
fear, and true fear, people will do things and take things.
As regards to the motion, it's definitely important, I believe, that
all of the funds be returned. No strings attached whatsoever. And
we need to send a message out that Collier County is where medical
tyranny comes to die.
That's all I have to say. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Pastor Anthony Thomas.
He'll be followed by Scott Sherman, then Jill Kiley, then Richard
Schroeder.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If you're a speaker and you decide
you don't want to speak, then just let Mr. Miller know.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just wave.
PASTOR THOMAS: Thank you, gentlemen, for your time.
My name is Pastor Anthony Thomas. I'm a local pastor for -- been a
pastor for almost 20 years. And I'm a Marina Corps veteran and a
proud patron of this country.
I want to share something very clearly. This is the first meeting
I have gone to, but the Lord put on my heart to come here, and I'm
going to share what he put to say.
The Bible is very clear. It says, the devil comes to steal, kill,
and to destroy. We have seen clearly that the CDC is a nefarious
organization that has taken our posterity in the generations to come
and done exactly those things; steal, kill, and destroy.
The Bible says very clearly, you shall not pollute the land where
you are, for blood defiles the land. We have seen clearly that there
has been an exchange by governments and different pharmaceutical
companies for money for the sake of blood.
And I would share clearly today, each one of you have been
given a measure of authority, and one day you will have to stand
before the Lord, the king of kings and the Lord of Lords, and give an
February 14, 2023
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account of the authority that you've been given. And the Bible is
very clear, when blood is on the land, it defiles it. God has put a
blessing upon this land, and I am asking you today, send this blood
money back in entirety, that the blessing of the Lord might rest on the
City of Naples. In Jesus' mighty name, amen.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He'll be
followed by Jill Kiley, Richard Schroeder, and then Scott Kiley.
MR. SHERMAN: All right. Thank you, Commissioners. My
name is Scott Sherman. I'm going to be very brief. I'm not going to
rehash this issue, but I want to comment on a couple things that were
said from the dais this morning.
One of the things is that -- the idea that the government
shouldn't be involved in healthcare, we applaud that. Two, federal
money is our money, so it doesn't really make much difference
between Collier County money or -- because we pay the taxes, and
our federal government has been wasting our tax money for years.
So that being said...
And then just be careful of following the advice of these global
institutions, because they are truly evil and do not represent the ideas
and morals of Collier County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jill Kiley. She'll be
followed by Richard Schroeder, then Scott Kiley, then Lisa -- it's
either Brates or Bates.
MS. KILEY: Good morning. Is it still morning? Yes, it is.
Happy Valentine's Day to all of you.
My name is Jill Kiley, and I'm a resident of Marco Island.
The COVID-19 response for resilient communities grant had a
goal to provide accessible and equitable healthcare to high-risk
communities. In review of the data provided to us by Collier County
February 14, 2023
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Health Services, it focused on a dual message: Get vaccinated and
wear a mask.
We have evidence from the Pfizer's own reports that the
so-called vaccine is neither safe or effective in preventing or
transmitting COVID-19. Additionally, the recently released
Cochrane report cites 19 studies with 71,000 people showing that
there is no clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use
of masks.
We know that there are many prophylactic measures to support
our immune system that can be used to prevent COVID-19,
influenza, and RSV infections. These protocols were available since
early 2020 and have been used by prominent healthcare providers
around the world and helped many thousands of people.
If early intervention and reduction of the spread of COVID-19
was the goal, why are there no preventative or early intervention
measures mentioned in the materials presented to us by Collier
County Health Services? Is it just me, or do the rest of you think
this is appalling?
Perhaps the injection bus could have given out ivermectin and a
preventative handout in their goodie bags, like they did in Africa and
India which, by the way, are two countries with the lowest vaccine
uptick and the lowest rate of death. This was not a prevention
campaign. This was a misinformation and a jab-in-every-arm
campaign.
The fraudulent and deceptive manner that our health officials
have conducted themselves with lack of informed consent, bullying,
and no discussion of vaccine risks of disease, bodily damage, and
death is inconceivable. To say that this has been a crime of mass
proportions waged on our people is a huge understatement. Seventy
percent of the population of Collier County is fully vaccinated, and
the makers knew that the more injections of this experimental shot
February 14, 2023
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that are taken, the greater risk for disease and death.
In summary, the people of Collier County were duped, and they
need to be given appropriate warnings of this injection on our county
website and where to go for treatment for their injuries.
Please, Commissioners, do not subject any more of our citizens
to these injections and injuries.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Richard Schroeder. He'll
be followed by Scott Kyle, then Lisa Brates, and then Emily -- I'm
going to say Dalto. I can't read your last name, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just want to just chime in again.
And it's just more for clarification. So we have a time-certain at
10:00 for David Lawrence Center, and there's a lot of people here
that, just like everybody else, took time out to be here for the
time-certain, and we're well past it.
I just tell everyone again on this issue, you have five
commissioners here that have a motion on the floor to unanimously
give back all of the money to the max, no strings, no nothing. You
know, if there's still a dozen more speakers to speak, I feel the need
to go to our time-certain, which is an hour late.
So if you are coming to the podium to tell us what we've already
heard and we're about to vote unanimously on, it's your right, but I
think in the next five minutes I'm, you know, going to go to the other
group that has a right to hear a very large topic as well, which had a
10:00 a.m. time-certain even before this one.
So, Doctor, I'll turn the floor over to you, but there again, I
just --
DR. SCHROEDER: I'm going to -- I'm going to end it, but I
want to tell you, I have some non-duplicative material I know that the
commissioners -- you commissioners are going to want to hear. But
I want to get to a vote. And I think this is -- this is where we need to
February 14, 2023
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go today. If you promise to hear me out at a future meeting on this
non-duplicative material --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Would you be kind enough to
email it to us?
DR. SCHROEDER: Yeah, certainly I can --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll be glad to read it.
DR. SCHROEDER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd love to see it, Doc.
DR. SCHROEDER: Yes. It had to do with where the
bio-weapon actually came from, how it was developed by the
Department of Defense and so on. So it's very important to
understand the background of all this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Perfect. Thank you, Doctor.
DR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. We'll come back.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Kiley, followed by
Lisa Brates, and then Emily Dalto, and Diane --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's waiving. Mr. Kiley
waived.
MR. KILEY: I give up my time.
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Lisa Brates?
MS. BRATES: Good morning. Hello, Commissioners. I
just -- I'm not going to be redundant. I just want to say thank you for
your time, and thank you for your vote.
But I'm standing here because I just thought that there was one
thing I needed to point out. I know that Ms. Maggie Lopez went
through her presentation pretty quickly. I don't know if anybody
saw, because she didn't state, but at the bottom there were a lot of
bullet points. I know you all have the presentation. The bullet
points were very clear that money has to be used for COVID-19. So
I don't think it could be diverted to other things, as stated.
That's my point. I just wanted to put that on the record. Thank
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you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Emily Dalto. I hope I'm
reading that right.
MS. DALTO: Yes, I'll pass. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Diane, is it Smars?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think she's in the anteroom.
MR. MILLER: She may be. Omar Del Pozo. And he would
be followed by Andrea Verder.
MR. DEL POZO: Good morning, Commissioners. My name's
(unintelligible) --
THE COURT REPORTER: I cannot understand you.
MR. MILLER: Sir, could you slow down a little bit. She has
to take down everything you're saying.
MR. DEL POZO: Good morning. Thank you for
(unintelligible) to be here. Congratulations to all the Board for the
great job you are doing and you will do.
I strongly encourage you to send this money back, simple. This
money represents probably the biggest lie in the history of the United
States. The so-called COVID-19 accounts a loss hurting our
country, in health, in Colombia and everything.
Shortly, what happened? Everything is a lie. The so-called
vaccine is not really a vaccine. A vaccine is when some people's
injected, vitals -- (unintelligible) vitals --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Slow.
MR. DEL POZO: Thank you. All part of the viral, all vital
(unintelligible) attenuated so the body respond and produce antibody.
In this case, the mRNA is not real. The normal mRNA we have
in our body has a time to work. The work, the mRNA, normally we
have -- what they do -- what the mRNA do is produce protein. But
what happens? Our body has to control. So the mRNA has to live
short time in order to finish this production of product. This
February 14, 2023
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so-called vaccine is fake. It's artificial.
So this vaccine escape to the normal control of our body in the
cell, in cytoplasm. So it produce a lot of protein without control and
produce inflammation at all levels, and this produce (unintelligible)
now.
Please, send this money back because we live the most free
country in the United States. God bless you, God bless America.
Happy Valentine's Day for you and for everybody here.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker -- we'll try Emily Dalto
again.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Diane Smars?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Andrea Verder?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. If they're coming from another room, I
do have one registered speaker on Zoom, so let's try them at this
point.
Dr. Yiachos, you should be getting prompted to unmute yourself
here shortly, if you will do so, sir. Dr. Yiachos -- there you are.
Sir, you have three minutes.
DR. YIACHOS: Yes, I'm here.
MR. MILLER: You have three minutes, sir.
DR. YIACHOS: Okay. Well, my name's Dr. Yiachos. I've
been a cardiologist, and I've been practicing at the front lines since
the beginning of COVID. I was in the heart of it in New York.
And it was terrible to see so many people die, but they died
primarily because people were being denied therapies and people
were being treated with the protocol that wasn't tested. And,
honestly, that was a real crime. Right now, I don't know how many
people know this, but as of last week, 16 studies have now confirmed
February 14, 2023
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that ivermectin can prevent serious COVID-19 disease, and yet it was
being denied completely to the population at that time, including the
healthcare workers.
That being said, there is a one-year crime than what happened
during COVID, the infection, and that is COVID, the vaccination.
It's -- to me this will surpass the amount of deaths that we saw from
COVID itself. The amount of heart disease that's being seen, the
amount of reactivation of cancers, the amount of people having
strokes, the amount of people actually having clots, this is an ongoing
problem. And it's not just the young people that are dying suddenly.
I think older people are also dying as suddenly, but for some reason
that's not as newsworthy, and that's really a pity. That's really a
shame.
And I think it's very important that people understand that we're
dealing with a deadly, deadly experimental drug that got pushed
through for money reasons, and we should not be propagating this
problem.
So whatever you may think the money might be getting used for,
very clearly it's being used for spreading this vaccination further to a
population that is being blindsided. They don't know the
information. In fact, I would say most Americans are still having a
hard time hearing the information.
So we would like the commissioners to understand why we have
such great -- we have no money to gain in making this argument and,
yet, some of the companies that are looking to make this money and
use it are not using it for the purposes of getting people better.
That's just the excuse that they're using to get access to the money.
And I don't want our county to be compromised ethically or morally
just because money is being thrown in our direction to use a deadly
weapon, which is the vaccine, and not COVID itself, and that's it.
Thank you so much for your time.
February 14, 2023
Page 70
MR. MILLER: All right, sir. Let me call these last two names
just to see if they were in overflow; Emily Dalto and Diane Smars.
MS. SMARS: I ceded my time.
MR. MILLER: Oh, okay. That takes care of it, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I just have one
comment, and it's just more to clear the record than anything.
Mr. Ulmer is the executive director of the Healthcare Network, an
important part of our community, and not -- not the executive director
of Partners in Health. It was represented that he was, and I just
wanted to clear that up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. If we have no other
speakers, we have a motion on the floor to give the full amount of the
CDC money back, accept no further funds. It's been seconded by
Commissioner McDaniel. It's been confirmed by me that I support
that strongly as well, I think, the other two commissioners. So I
have a motion and a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We need to move on
quickly. We have lots of other business, so we're going to go right
into our 10:00, which is -- I apologize to the David Lawrence Center
staff. Hopefully they haven't lost any of their key speakers.
Scott, have you lost anybody that you are concerned about?
February 14, 2023
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MR. BURGESS: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay
Item #9A
ORDINANCE 2023-13: AN ORDINANCE OF THE BOARD OF
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, AMENDING ORDINANCE NUMBER 2004-41, AS
AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE, WHICH ESTABLISHED THE COMPREHENSIVE
ZONING REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA
OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, BY AMENDING THE
APPROPRIATE ZONING ATLAS MAP OR MAPS BY
CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF THE HEREIN
DESCRIBED REAL PROPERTY FROM AN ESTATES (E)
ZONING DISTRICT WITH THE CORRIDOR MANAGEMENT
OVERLAY DISTRICT (CMO) TO A COMMUNITY FACILITIES
PLANNED DEVELOPMENT (CFPUD) WITHIN THE CORRIDOR
MANAGEMENT OVERLAY DISTRICT (CMO) FOR A PROJECT
TO BE KNOWN AS COLLIER COUNTY BEHAVIORAL
HEALTH CENTER COMMUNITY FACILITIES PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT TO ALLOW A 64,000 SQUARE FOOT
MAXIMUM GROUP CARE FACILITY WITH UP TO 102
PATIENT BEDS ON PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE NORTH
SIDE OF GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY AND ½ MILE WEST OF
SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD, IN SECTION 29, TOWNSHIP
49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
CONSISTING OF 5.15+/- ACRES: AND BY PROVIDING AN
EFFECTIVE DATE – ADOPTED
Item #9B
February 14, 2023
Page 72
ORDINANCE 2023-14: THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE
COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE
UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
SPECIFICALLY AMENDING THE URBAN GOLDEN GATE
ESTATES SUB-ELEMENT OF THE GOLDEN GATE AREA
MASTER PLAN ELEMENT TO ALLOW PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT REZONING AND CERTAIN PRESERVATION
REQUIREMENTS IN THE GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY
INSTITUTIONAL SUBDISTRICT, AN AGGREGATE OF 16.3
PLUS-OR-MINUS ACRES LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF
GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY APPROXIMATELY ONE-HALF
MILE WEST OF SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD IN SECTION
29, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND, FURTHERMORE, DIRECTING
TRANSMITTAL OF THE ADOPTED AMENDMENT TO THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY,
PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY, AND PROVIDING FOR AN
EFFECTIVE DATE – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, this brings us to our
time-certain from 10:00, companion items 9A and 9B. I'm going to
read these in together, and we're going to be hearing them in tandem.
This is a recommendation -- 9A is a recommendation to approve
an ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners of Collier
County, Florida, amending Ordinance No. 2004-41, as amended, the
Collier County Land Development Code, which established the
comprehensive zoning regulations for the unincorporated area of
Collier County, Florida, by amending the appropriate zoning atlas
February 14, 2023
Page 73
maps or maps by changing the zoning classification of the herein
described real property from an Estates zoning district within the
Corridor Management Overlay District to a Community Facilities
Planned Unit Development within the Corridor Management Overlay
District for a project to be known as Collier County Behavioral
Health Center Community Facilities Planned Unit Development to
allow a 64,000-square-foot maximum group care facility with up to
102 patient beds on property located on the north side of Golden Gate
Parkway and one-half mile west of Santa Barbara Boulevard in
Section 29, Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County,
Florida, consisting of 5.15 plus-or-minus acres, and providing an
effective date.
9B is an ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners of
Collier County, Florida, amending Ordinance No. 89-05, as amended,
the Collier County Growth Management Plan for the unincorporated
area of Collier County, Florida, specifically amending the urban
Golden Gate Estates sub-element of the Golden Gate Area Master
Plan element to allow Planned Unit Development rezoning and
certain preservation requirements in the Golden Gate Parkway
Institutional Subdistrict, an aggregate of 16.3 plus-or-minus acres
located on the north side of Golden Gate Parkway approximately
one-half mile west of Santa Barbara Boulevard in Section 29,
Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida, and,
furthermore, directing transmittal of the adopted amendment to the
Florida Department of Economic Opportunity, providing for
severability, and providing for an effective date.
Mr. Ed Finn, our Deputy County Manager, will begin the
presentation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Finn --
MS. PATTERSON: We need to swear in and do ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Finn, before you speak and
February 14, 2023
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before we do that, so everybody that wants to be in here -- and I ask
the sheriff that's at the door there, just anybody that wants to come in,
they came in. Let's have order, okay. We're transitioning now to
another very important vote. And anybody that was here for the last
vote for the CDC money hopefully has exited. I just appreciate if
you turn your cell phones off. We had a little bit of a problem with
that. We've got a lot to get to. So before the floor is yours, County
Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: We need to swear in participants, and you
need to give ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So let's swear in all those
participants that need to be sworn in.
MR. MILLER: If you're planning on speaking, you need to be
sworn in, if you're registered as a public speaker.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And ex parte for the
commissioners. I'll start with Commissioner Kowal. Do you have
anything on this topic, 9A or 9B?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, I do. I have meetings,
correspondence, emails, and calls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have the same,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: All the above.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, all of the above.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Same here, everything across the
board.
Okay. Mr. Finn, the floor is yours.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir. Thank you. Good morning,
February 14, 2023
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Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Thank you, Ms. Patterson. Ed
Finn, Deputy County Manager.
As the primary applicant for the proposed zoning actions, county
staff appreciates the opportunity to introduce this item.
I'm going to -- today I'm going to briefly describe today's zoning
actions, orient us to the project location, describe the timeline that
brings us to today, provide an overview of the site and the site's
relationship to the current David Lawrence Center location, and then
turn the presentation over to the overall team.
The need for greater access to treatment for substance abuse
disorders and mental health led to the Board of County
Commissioners establishing the Mental Health and Addiction Ad
Hoc Advisory Committee in December 2018.
In December 2019, the committee's mental health and addiction
services five-year strategic plan was adopted by the Board. The top
priority of that strategic plan was to build and operate a central
receiving facility to serve persons experiencing acute mental health
and substance abuse crisis. Over the last three years, we have made
significant progress to that goal.
My primary task this morning is to introduce the team that will
be presenting today's amendments relative to the parcel that has been
selected to be the home of the Collier County Behavioral Health
Center. The team includes former County Commissioner Andy
Solis; Richard Yovanovich, Esquire; Jessica Harrelson, AICP, from
Peninsula Engineering; Javier Salazar, principal AIA from
RG Architects; and Scott Burgess, the CEO of the David Lawrence
Center.
Today we're here seeking approval for a small-scale Growth
Management Plan amendment as well as a Planned Unit
Development rezone. There are some notes on this slide for you, but
this will be covered more in depth as the team progresses with their
February 14, 2023
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presentation.
The proposed site: The proposed site is 5.15 acres. It is in
proximity -- close proximity to I-75. It is located between I-75 and
Santa Barbara Boulevard, and it is essentially quite close to and
essentially collocated, in our view, with the existing David Lawrence
Center location.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the timelines other than
to hit a couple of real highlights. In 2018 -- if I may, 2018, the
Board agreed to allocate 25 million of the proposed infrastructure
surtax as part of the referendum on the infrastructure sales tax as a
community priority project for this behavioral health center. The
voters elected to tax themselves for that purpose.
In February '21, at the conclusion of a formal site selection
process, the Board selected the location that's the subject of today's
actions. In May of '21, the Board approved a land purchase for that
site, as well as an agreement for the new facility to be operated by the
David Lawrence Center.
In June '21, the citizen surtax committee validated the use of
infrastructure surtax for this purpose. In August of '21, the Board
approved the design contract for the facility with RG Architects, and
in April '22, the vacant land contract was amended making Collier
County responsible for the land entitlement zoning process we're
being considered today.
Just a little more orientation on the site. This slide gives some
general background information on the future site of the behavioral
health center. The site is in a 16-acre Golden Gate institutional
subdistrict that was created by ordinance in 2007 to provide for the
expansion and continued operation of the David Lawrence Center.
That concludes my intro to this. At this point, I'd like to turn
over the presentation to the team and, specifically, former
Commissioner Solis.
February 14, 2023
Page 77
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. SOLIS: Good morning, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Welcome back. Does it feel better
being on that side? It does, doesn't it? Yeah.
MR. SOLIS: I'll be honest, it feels a little strange. But thank
you for the opportunity, and thanks to Mr. Finn for that summary.
And I'm really here to kind of tell the story why we're here.
When I was elected in 2016, as most of you know, and I'm sure the
new commissioners are aware, we started this whole process bringing
together the stakeholders in the community; the Sheriff, NCH, the
Collier County public schools, DLC, NAMI, Wounded Warriors,
Judge Janeice Martin, and others. And for me it was about trying to
get my arms around what the problem was and is.
And it was worse than I understood it to be, because at that time
DLC was the only facility that we had. It was the only provider for
crisis stabilization unit beds, and there was 30 for a population of
almost $400,000 -- 400,000 people.
We had -- by the state's own numbers, we should have had 120.
We had under 10, I believe beds for children, and to this day we still
have zero Medicare beds for our seniors, zero.
What does that mean? Well, that means, number one, that we
have been using and continue to use our jail as our largest mental
health facility. We'll hear from the Sheriff -- and he and I have spent
hours talking about this. Nobody gets better in the jail. It's bad
public policy. It's bad fiscal policy, because it's so much more
expensive to house somebody in the jail than in a facility where they
might get better and do get better.
What does it mean for children? Well, if we're out of
beds -- and most of the time we're out of beds -- children may have to
go to another county. What does that mean to our children, and what
February 14, 2023
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does it mean for our seniors? It means that we don't have a single
Medicare bed if you're a senior on Medicare or Medicaid and you
have both medical problems and you need psychiatric treatment or
crisis stabilization; we have to send you to Lee County or some other
county.
You know, I've always said that Collier County is, you know,
the greatest county to live, work, and play. We all know the motto,
and we can do better, and we should do better.
So having said that, again, it's bad fiscal policy. This is a crisis
that affects everybody. Everybody's affected by this. I mean, I
started this process because mental health issues led to the death of
both my cousin and her son. I'll just say that publicly. It is -- you
know, and it's something that, you know, families continue to deal
with for decades and decades, maybe forever.
I will like to just remind everybody of a great story. We had
our first workshop in, I think it was June of 2017, and at that
workshop, we had a gentleman that came and spoke, and he told the
story of how he had been -- I think it was a car accident, and he had
become addicted to opioids, he was in and out of the jail, in and out
of the David Lawrence Center, attempting suicide, but eventually he
was into the mental health court and the drug court program that
Judge Martin was running, and he came and told his story, right.
He gets a place to live at St. Matthew's House. They get him a
job, a couple years later, after having walked into the St. Matthew's
House with a pair of flip-flops, jeans, and a T-shirt, and that's it. He
told the story of how he now owned his own car, right? That was
great. He was back with his family. He now owned his own home,
which I thought was outstanding. But then he said, I own my own
business, and I have, I think it was, 10 employees, and half of those
he would get from the treatment court programs.
That return on investment is something that is exponential for
February 14, 2023
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the community. It gets people back as productive members of our
community, and it is the kind of investment that we can make and
should make.
From the very beginning, we have been discussing this
particular property. It was entitled almost 15 years ago, I believe,
for this purpose, and we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
on studies with experts to make sure that this was the right place to
do it, to build this facility. And that's why we're here today.
You know, finding another location at this point would delay the
opening of the facility. We already know that not having enough
beds costs people their lives. Our rates of suicide have gone up.
The rates of Baker Act cases have gone up. And this is -- the
number-one priority from day one is to build this facility, and to
delay it will cost people their lives. And switching gears now, I
think, will -- maybe Mr. Finn will talk about this later, but we have
spent six years getting here today. I would suggest that it will be at
least three or four years if we need to start over with a process for the
site selection.
Unfortunately, I think you're going to probably be shown a
video, if you haven't been shown a video already, of, you know,
terrible things that happen with people that have mental illness, you
know. And, unfortunately, that video, I think, it reinforces why we
need to do this, right? This is -- this is the solution to avoiding those
kinds of tragedies or the tragedies that I've experienced with my
family.
You'll hear from the Sheriff that there's no public safety issue
with either David Lawrence's operations now or with the creation of
this facility, and it will actually make Collier County even safer.
I think, unfortunately, we know that the Planning Commission
recommended denial. Unfortunately, I think they weren't privy to
the amount of time and effort and reports and testimony that the
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Commission has heard over the last five or six years and how
thoughtful a process we went through to come to this site selection.
You'll see -- you'll hear from the community leaders, the
medical community, NCH leadership, the business community,
veterans organizations, law enforcement, and the philanthropic
community that this is needed, and it needs to be located at this site.
You'll hear from residents about how needed and beneficial this
facility is for them and their families, and you'll see also that all
central receiving facilities in Florida are built in residential areas, not
located next to a jail, as has been suggested.
Again, the DLC property's been intended and entitled for this
purpose for almost two decades. So for the benefit of the
community, please, I hope the Commission approves the petition in
order ensure that Collier County continues to be the best place to
work and live and raise a family. It's the right thing to do at the right
time and the right place.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. YOVANOVICH: For the record, Rich Yovanovich.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, if I could
interrupt for just a second. I'd like to suggest that the audience not
applaud. This is a quasi-judicial proceeding. The applause doesn't
add anything. There are going to be two different sides to this.
And, Mr. Chairman, I would urge that we just maintain some
decorum in terms of audience participation; not have that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Noted. Thank you.
Proceed, sir.
MR. YOVANOVICH: For the record, Rich Yovanovich. We
are going to spend a lot of time in our presentation setting forth why
this is the right location for the proposed facilities. This
location -- the David Lawrence Center has been in this location for
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over 45 years. They have been doing good work in this location for
over 45 years. The neighborhood has been aware of the David
Lawrence Center for over 45 years, and the neighborhood has been
aware of proposed expansion of the David Lawrence Center for
many, many, many years.
As both Mr. Finn and former Commissioner Solis have
mentioned, the David Lawrence Center in 2007 came forward with
the district that you're considering making a very minor change to
and that you're changing it to give the option for the very uses that
have been previously approved since 2007 to either be approved by a
conditional use or through the PUD process. So these uses are not
changing. It's the manner in which you can get these uses approved
on the property.
Back in 2003-ish the county took some of the David Lawrence
Center property through eminent domain. And in doing so, it made
the expansion of the David Lawrence Center, which has been
providing the services we're here to expand at this location, could no
longer do it on the existing property. So they acquired a five-acre
site, which you've seen in this exhibit and others. They acquired that
five-acre site and went through the Comprehensive Plan amendment
process that at that time did not have a small-scale amendment
process. And what does that mean? It meant that we had to go and
do what was called a transmittal hearing where it went to the state for
the state to evaluate it, it came back, and then we had to go through
the adoption process.
So when we went through this process in 2007, we went to the
Collier County Planning Commission at the first hearing to ask for
these uses to be allowed on this piece of property. We then went to
the Board of County Commissioners for them to say, yes, go ahead
and transmit this to the state. So we had two public hearings as to
whether or not the state should consider this location.
February 14, 2023
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It came back. We went back to the Planning Commission again
to evaluate it again, is this the right location for the expansion of
these services; and, ultimately, back to the Board of County
Commissioners for the fourth time, fourth public hearing, as to
whether or not this was the appropriate location to expand the David
Lawrence Center facilities on this piece of property.
So there were four public hearings regarding this specific piece
of property as to whether or not the David Lawrence Center services
should be expanded to this location.
The public-hearing process requires signs to be on the property,
ads in the newspaper, and letters being sent. There was no mystery
as to what was the intended purpose of this five-acre site. And it
was unanimously approved by the Board of County Commissioners.
I would submit to you most, if not every resident in this area,
moved to this location after the David Lawrence Center has been on
this property, and many of the people have moved there since 2007
when the expansion on this five-acre piece had been approved
through the public-hearing process.
I've heard the analogy this is -- coming and objecting to this
piece of property is like moving to -- or moving next door to the
airport and then complaining about airplanes flying over site. I've
heard that from several people.
This property has been and has always been, since 2007,
identified for exactly why we're here today. However, at that time it
was anticipated that it would be the private sector raising monies to
provide these services, because at that time we did not have the
surtax money. The uses that we're here for have been in place since
2007, the expansion of the David Lawrence Center and services
related to that. In 2007, this 16-acre subdistrict actually was a
partnership with the church that is in between the two parcels. There
was cooperation about providing for ingress and egress and shared
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access. That church still supports this use on the piece of property.
The only change is to allow for the PUD process to put this site on
the property, which I will point out to you is a little bit harder process
than the conditional-use process.
Under the conditional-use process, you only have four criteria
that you have to satisfy. Electing to go through the PUD rezone
made it a little bit more -- a little bit more strenuous, but all of the
public expert testimony has been in favor of this site and that all of
the criteria in the Land Development Code have been satisfied.
You're going to hear that expert testimony from several of our
speakers, the first of which is Jessica Harrelson. She's the
professional planner on this project, and she will take you through the
details of why this site is the appropriate site for the location of this
facility, and then she will be followed by other speakers, again
identifying why this is the right location for these facilities.
And with that, I'll turn it over to Jessica unless you have any
questions about the history of how this site was originally identified
and approved for the expansion of these services.
MS. HARRELSON: Good morning. I'm Jessica Harrelson,
certified planner with Peninsula Engineering, and I'll be reviewing
the site design and the modifications that have been made to the plan
through meetings with the public.
So, again, the request is for a group care facility with a
maximum of 64,000 square feet, up to 102 patient beds. The site is
located along a six-lane arterial roadway less than half a mile east of
Interstate 75. The property is surrounded by both residential and
nonresidential land uses, and some of those nonresidential land uses
include churches, childcare centers, the existing David Lawrence
Center, and the Naples Bridge Center.
The use is consistent with surrounding land-use patterns and is
also consistent with the Collier County Growth Management Plan.
February 14, 2023
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Setbacks are consistent with requirements in the Estates zoning
district, and the maximum zoned height is 45 feet limited to two
stories. Enhanced landscape buffers are to be provided along the
north, the east, and the south. These enhanced buffers will provide
screening from adjacent land uses as well as from Golden Gate
Parkway. It also aids in preserving the rural character of the site.
The preserve location to the north here was strategically
designed to provide additional buffering to adjacent residential uses
to the north. It is just less than a half acre in size and contains
mature vegetation.
Per the Land Development Code, walls are required between
residential and nonresidential uses. So per the code now, this
development is required to provide a wall along the north and along
the east with a maximum of eight feet in height. A deviation was
added to the PUD to increase the height to 10 feet, and that was per a
direct request from a neighboring property owner from the very first
public meeting that was held in May of 2022.
The project team does not feel the increase in height is
necessary. We've also researched other similar facilities in Florida
and have not found that any of them provide 10-foot walls.
Two public meetings were held following the Planning
Commission's recommendation at the October 20th hearing, and as a
result of those two meetings, additional commitments have been
agreed to, and those include that the county will schedule security
staff to visit the new facility periodically. No windows will be
installed on the second story facing the east and to the north, and that
will alleviate concerns of property owners thinking that patients will
have views onto their properties.
The county has also agreed to construct a bus shelter along
Golden Gate Parkway within proximity to the site, and the new
facility will be constructed with an enclosed, secure client access,
February 14, 2023
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which is used for patient drop-off, and the architects will provide
further details and renderings on that secure access later on.
And then, lastly, a commitment to extend the proposed wall
along the northern boundary of the entire subdistrict which includes
the existing Parkway Life Church and the existing David Lawrence
Center. And the addition of a six-foot solid fence along David
Lawrence Center's western property boundary has been presented as
an option, alternatively, to construct the wall -- the 10-foot wall as
currently proposed with the addition of a 6-foot decorative fence
along the western boundary of the subject site. The first option
would require an agreement with the Parkway Life Church.
Three deviations from the LDC have been requested. The first
is to allow that increase in wall height that we previously discussed.
The second is to deviate from the required 500-foot separation
between group housing facilities. The Growth Management Plan
already permits the use on this site, so we just added this deviation to
ensure there was no potential issues with proposed separation.
The third deviation is to request -- reduce the setback from the
proposed wall from preserve boundaries from five feet to two feet,
and that is just so that we can install all of those enhanced plantings
within those buffers facing residential development. So they will be
planted on the external side of the wall.
And then lastly, the Traffic Impact Statement states there will
not be any significant impacts to the network because of this project.
And we do have a traffic engineer here today, Norm Trebilcock, if
there's any questions related to traffic.
And with that, Javier Salazar with RG Architects will review
building design.
MR. SALAZAR: Good morning. Javier Salazar with RG
Architects.
So I'm here to talk a little bit about the design process. So
February 14, 2023
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everybody knows, the project was taken up to schematic design,
which is about 30 percent of the construction of full design process.
It is important to point out that these type of facilities are what we all
understand as NIMBY, right, "not in my backyard" type of facility.
Everybody understands that there's a need for it but are very skeptical
of having it close to their, you know, houses, which it comes with any
project -- with this type of project, I'm sorry.
So with that said, we proposed to the team from the very
beginning to make sure that we understand what are the goals of the
project not only for -- from the internal perspective of it, but also how
it affects the community. With that said, we also included one open
non-required meeting with the neighbors to understand kind of what
are their concerns, how can we address them. And in that, we
created the series of design drivers and referenced images that we
shared with them at that time in which security and safety is one of
them. It's not only the security and safety of those using the facility,
the staff, but also the neighborhood.
We also talked about referenced images. And this is not
necessarily to say that the center's going to look exactly like this, but
what are elements or key elements that provide that type of design
that we're looking for to provide the best service.
Here are some renderings of what we have come up for the
schematic design, and this is the entry looking from Golden Gate
towards the building. It's mostly one story. From this profile, you
have some high glazing areas for daylight. You know, as we all
know, that is very important for the use of the building. Here's the
main view of the entrance. This is one of the entrances. This is the
public entrance, and then I'll show some more details on the secure
entrance.
Again, trying to create an environment that has some wood
tones, some materials that soften the presence of the building but also
February 14, 2023
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placed with the colors.
Here's another view a little bitter farther out from Golden Gate
looking towards the front of the building. Everything in the
building, as you'll see later, is contained within. So there's security
in all aspects of it. There's no, you know, outdoor -- outdoor open
area for the -- for the users. They are all contained within the
perimeter of the building.
This is where we talked about the secure entrance. This is a
very simple diagram. On the upper left you see the ambulance
approaching the secure entrance where everything is locked. It
activates. The ambulance come in on the second image. On No. 3,
it closes. The patient is discharged or brought into the -- into the
facility and then, again, opens up and exits so that the next -- the next
car can come in. And this is just a quick sequence of what it would
look like.
Opening, coming in, closing, and then the next one comes in.
As far as the landscape buffers go, that was another important
requirement that we need to meet with, but not only that, in -- as
Jessica pointed out, in discussions with the neighbor, make sure that
we kind of go above and beyond to satisfy their needs to the best of
our abilities.
So the east side is -- I'm sorry. The west side is a Type A
buffer, which it requires canopy trees. On the north and west we
have a Type B, which is canopy trees, a 10-foot wall, low canopy
trees, and hedges all the way around. And then the south end would
be canopy trees, hedges, everything that we discussed under B except
for the -- except for the wall. The wall would not be on the south
end of it.
So to kind of put everything I just said together in a little bit
easier way, Jessica, can we play the video, if you don't mind, please.
And I'm just going to present a little bit animation of what the design
February 14, 2023
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is.
And I think somebody's doing it.
MS. HARRELSON: Is this one yours or the --
MR. SALAZAR: Yeah. So this is a little 3D animation that
we did looking at the David Lawrence Center on the left, the church
in the middle, and then the facility. You can see the neighbors on
the right or the east side and the north side.
So as we're approaching, we're going to come down. You can
kind of see the makeup of the building and kind of how it's
addressing the side. The building itself is buffering the traffic on the
west side from the neighbors. This is the landscape buffer, as you
can see. It's -- this is the less intensive. This is Type A.
As we turn towards the north and the east, it's going to get a
little bit heavier here. So here we are turning that corner. You can
see the wall. That kind of gives you an idea of what the neighbors at
the north would be seeing. There's a portion of the building that can
barely be seen through the landscape, but you will notice that there
are no windows in it. That's another of the elements that we've put
in so that there's no visual context. The wall and the landscape
covers anything above the window so that you wouldn't be seeing
nor, you know, users will be seeing into the neighborhood.
Now we're looking towards Golden Gate, kind of slow down a
little bit to see that main entrance. A buffer, Type B, without the
wall. Some signage. As we turn the corner, this will be the
approach that you would take to enter the site and the facility itself.
As you can see, there are some wood tones in there. We've got the
white color to make it a little less impactful and then having some
color to soften it up a little bit.
As we come in, we're seeing the nonsecure entrance, or the
public entrance, and then in the background, as we approach, you can
see the secured entrance where the ambulance and the patrol car is
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waiting to have access to the site.
And that is about the extent of it.
And with that, I'll leave it up to the next speaker.
MR. FINN: Thank you, Javier.
Edward Finn, again, Deputy County Manager.
Very nice. I'm just going to give the Board a brief overview on
some sense of where we are with programming on this site. The
slide you have in front of you is the current -- the current design or
programming budget thresholds, beds, et cetera, at the 30 percent
design that Javier mentioned.
This has early -- let me start off by saying this design is 54,000
square feet rather than the full rezone amount. It has about 87 beds
with about 42 beds that are benefiting the facility through the
collocation at this site with David Lawrence. The remaining design
time is approximately 10 months with early construction award
approximately June '24, and a two-year construction schedule. The
construction cost estimate is about $29 million.
This slide provides an overhead of the facility placement and the
overall site layout. This slide is provided to just give the Board a
sense for the extensive programming effort that's been put in to
develop a best practices behavioral health center layout.
This slide provides kind of a look at one of the alternatives that
had been discussed previously when the site was selected. This
would be an on-campus site. This is going to occupy a little less
space because there is some shared benefit with parking and
stormwater; however, the overall building square footage goes up to
accommodate all the beds necessary to achieve our overall goals with
this.
The construction costs are consequently substantially higher as
is the relocation cost for facilities that are currently here on site. The
schedule impact to this is probably the most difficult thing for the
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public to, perhaps, deal with, or the community to deal with. And
this, in all probability, would add 39 months to the schedule that is
envisioned under the current selected site.
This provides the same information of kind of a blue sky siting.
If we were to find a site, there's a million-dollar allowance for
property. That may -- that's probably, at least in this market, maybe
a little bit low. Nonetheless, that's the proposal there. There
continues to be a substantial cost delta with this alternative, given that
the cost of the current site, effectively, to the Board is a
nominal -- nominal amount. And the -- again, the big impact for me
is the impact on the schedule, which is estimated to be 27 months.
With that, I'm going to turn it over to the David Lawrence CEO,
Mr. Burgess.
MR. BURGESS: Good morning, Commissioners. First of all,
I'd like to thank you very much for being here today to continue to
work with you and our community towards mobilizing this very
important game-changing initiative for our community that we've
been talking about for a long while.
I'd also like to take a quick moment to thank the supporters who
have advocated for this needed mental health center at this site by
writing emails and letters, by making calls, and the great multitude of
individuals that have taken time out of their busy schedules to be here
wearing green in support of -- the green is the color for suicide
prevention. It is the national color for mental health awareness, and
today green is for go on this project at this site.
I'll be briefly sharing with you some reasons why this is the right
site. This is not an exhaustive list, but it does denote some of the
key reasons why this is considered evidence-based best practice site.
This is not merely my opinion. This has been and will be reinforced
by those who are national policy experts, by behavioral health experts
in Florida, and by our local community stakeholders.
February 14, 2023
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The first item is continuity of care and synergies. By having
this site right next to the current campus, we will have the
opportunity to have enhanced continuity of care from in-patient
services into outpatient services that are just paces away. National
best practice is to try to link individuals as quickly as possible into
seamless support in the community after an in-patient stay. By
having these locations so close to one another, we'll be able to have
same-day access to outpatient care once somebody is discharged
from in-patient. This is going to help break down the artificial and
the real barriers that inhibit so many people in continuing their care.
This is going to help with long-term prognosis. As we know, when
we can seamlessly transition people across the continuum of care,
their prognosis greatly increases and the outcomes increase.
Secondly, integrated care. Whole-person integrated care has
been demonstrated to be the most effective and the most efficient
form of care. By having the new behavioral health center close to
outpatient services at DLC, we'll be able to link individuals in a
comprehensive way and an integrated way to meet the vast majority
of their needs. For example, if an individual is in the in-patient
setting in the central receiving facility and they're there for a mental
health related reason, many individuals may also have a co-occurring
issue with substance-use disorder that's discovered during that stay.
By being able to link them to the outpatient center, which is just
paces away, we'll be able to attend to the mental health needs of that
individual, the substance-use disorder needs of that individual, and
we also have a pharmacy, a specialty behavioral health pharmacy on
that campus called Genoa Pharmacy. That pharmacy allows for
individuals to be able to come there and receive the needed
medications to help support their long-term wellness. This offers a
seamless approach to attending to individuals' comprehensive
aftercare needs. These factors associated with continuity of care and
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integrated care benefits are of the most paramount reasons why
locating or collocating central receiving centers next to or embedded
with existing community mental health centers is done in every
central receiving facility in Florida, and it's why it's considered
national evidence-based practice.
Thirdly, it's a centralized location. We are, at that location,
essentially in the very center of Collier County, which you all know
is very expansive, so we are the closest location to the vast majority
of individuals that would be coming to the center for services.
We are also conveniently located right next to two major
thoroughfares, I-75 and Golden Gate Parkway. This allows for
effective and efficient transport to care and ease of transport for first
responders to be able to have somebody admitted and be able to get
right back on the road helping Collier County residents.
Next, it's a familiar and preferred site. DLC has been known to
provide these services to Collier County for almost 50 years. We're
known by individuals. We're known by families. We're known by
potential referral sources, general practitioners, family care
practitioners.
When individuals are going through a crisis state, one of the
things you want to do is try to minimize the amount of things that can
be confusing by having a familiar location that's going to be very
helpful for individuals. And when I say "preferred location," one of
the things that we've done in this process, which you've heard about
briefly, is we wanted to engage stakeholders, consumers that may use
this service, and we had a focus group that was done at the National
Alliance for Mental Illness, and they did a survey, and the vast
majority of the consumers, those that may be using the center here, or
their family members, the vast majority of them preferred this site
location indicating that they felt that it was therapeutic, it was
community integrated, it was trusted, and it was effective and
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efficient for them.
Cost-effective approach, we are donating the land to the county
in order for this building to be built; therefore, we know that in order
to maximize the footprint of the building and the bed capacity of the
building, if we can take some of those costs off the table, the land
costs, that's going to be beneficial.
Additionally, as was discussed just briefly before, it allows for
maximizing treatment bed capacity. We're going to be able to keep
some of the services that were originally envisioned to be in this
building on our current campus. This will allow for -- the proximity
will allow for significant operations and some personnel synergies
that will be gained. By having it closely located to the current DLC
campus, we're going to be able to keep the children services in the
main -- in our current location and our detox services; therefore, in
totality, we're going to end up gaining more beds.
And this project is not only -- at this site is not only going to
help us gain more beds, it's going to allow us to gain the right beds.
In-patient -- what was shared with Former Commissioner Andy Solis
before was that Medicare -- folks that have Medicare benefits, for the
longest while have been sent out of the Collier County for their
support. We'd love to be able to keep them here, and through the
new building, we will be able to have an in-patient hospital
component that would allow those folks to be able to say in our
community.
We'll also be able to have separation between adults receiving
their mental health support in-patient and children and families
having a nice comfortable location that's in a proximate but separate
location. And the new design will also allow us to have
subspecialization of populations. Right now we have a situation in
which we have a large one-unit situation for adults receiving
in-patient mental health care.
February 14, 2023
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In the new building we're designing it such that we're going to
have pods or units of 15 beds that we're going to have pods or units
of 15 beds that will be specialized. Maybe a unit for the seniors, a
unit for those that are struggling mostly with substance-use disorders,
a unit that's for those that are struggling with semi-acute mental
health challenges versus highly acute mental health challenges.
So for those reasons, we know that this is going to maximum
both treatment bed capacity as well as getting us the right -- the right
capacity and the right beds.
And then, lastly, this use is permitted for -- on this site, which
you've already heard about. It was permitted in the Growth
Management Plan. It was permitted under the institutional
subdistrict that was provided for in 2007. That allowed for this site
to have expansion for these services and to have it associated in the
actual language with -- in association with David Lawrence Center.
Most recently, in February of '21, the Commission affirmed this
site as the central receiving facility site. The team that's been
assembled here before you has been working tirelessly since that date
to design and realize this vital community project. We are ready to
go at this site.
Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Mr. Chairman, we have a speaker that
has to leave at noon, and she's on Zoom. Would you mind if we
took her right now, and then I'll --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely. And I'd like to break
around 12:15 on schedule, so you can plan it around that.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It's Melanie Brown Woofter is --
MR. MILLER: Melanie Brown Woofter. All right. My
Zoom people, we're going to call Melanie Brown Woofter to speak at
this time. Give me just a minute here. I think we caught them a
little off guard at the moment, Mr. Yovanovich, people doing my
February 14, 2023
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Zoom here.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sorry about that, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: That's -- okay. There we go. No, that was the
wrong person.
Melanie Brown Woofter, my IT people are not responding to me
at the moment, Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry about this. I don't believe
I can unmute her myself. I cannot. Okay. Now they're
responding.
All right. Ms. Woofter, stand by. We're prompting you to
unmute yourself. You are unmuted at this point, Ms.
Woofter -- Brown Woofter. You have three minutes.
MS. WOOFTER: Thank you very much, and thank you to each
of the commissioners for hearing this incredibly important issue and
for listening to the presentations that have been made so far.
I'm the president and CEO of the Florida Behavioral Health
Association. I'm also chairman of the national association's public
policy for mental health and substance-use disorders. And I'd like to
say today that the central receiving facility is a first of its kind in the
nation. Florida is leading the way in the way that we provide mental
health and substance-use treatment services.
There are 10 communities in Florida who have invested in
central receiving. All of them report an immediate positive impact
and return on investment, and each of them have continued to make
investments in their central receiving facility for sustainability and
for growth.
We know last year in Florida alone, over 43,000 unique
individuals received a service through central receiving facilities.
Ninety-three percent of those who were diverted from an acute care
stay received a link to services immediately. We broke the cycle for
those who were attending.
In addition, we're now seeing a four-minute drop-off time for
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law enforcement, which means that law enforcement has more time
to be able to attend to the needs of the community. And we know
from the public hospital perspective that over 9,300 individuals were
successfully diverted from emergency department services and from
acute care hospital admissions.
So I come to you today in full support of this -- this concept, and
David Lawrence Center has been a true partner to the community,
and this was -- the build of this facility is a step forward for all of
Collier County.
Thank you for your time.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We have a brief video that we'd like to
play to summarize how we got to where we are and why this is the
right location for this facility.
Are you helping me, Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: Yeah. Are you ready?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah, I'm ready.
(A video was played as follows:)
David Lawrence Centers has provided these services at its
Golden Gate Parkway location for nearly 50 years. The location was
unanimously approved by Collier Commissioners in 1976. Since
then, DLC has continued to expand on that campus as demand has
increased.
It's a needed facility out there. It's got the support of just about
everybody and his brother from one end of the community to the
other. I make a motion for approval.
Second.
In 2007 Collier Commissioners unanimously approved a district
that allowed for the future expansion of these services on the
five-acre parcel near DLC.
All those in favor, indicate by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
February 14, 2023
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Opposed?
(No response.)
And the ayes have it 5-0.
Motion and second. All in favor, say aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Any opposed?
(No response.)
It's approved.
In 2018, the Collier Commissioners unanimously approved the
allocation of $25 million of the proposed sales surtax for the
construction of a new central receiving facility. Later that year,
voters approved the surtax to fund the project.
No one is immune to mental illness and substance abuse. And
as a community, we need to coalesce with it. All in favor?
(Chorus of ayes.)
Opposed, same sign, same sound.
(No response.)
So moved.
In 2019, the County Commission formally created a behavioral
health ad hoc committee comprised of healthcare, social service, law
enforcement, education, and justice system professionals, as well as
mental health advocates. The ad hoc committee developed the
county's first ever mental health and addiction services strategic plan.
The plan's number-one priority is to build the new Collier County
central receiving facility. The plan was unanimously approved by
commissioners in 2019.
In February 2021, Collier Commissioners unanimously voted to
approve the five acres near DLC as the location for the central
receiving facility.
All those in favor of the motion, say aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
February 14, 2023
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Those opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
It carries unanimously.
In May 2021, Collier Commissioners unanimously voted to
approve a lease and operating agreement with DLC for the central
receiving facility at that location and authorized county staff to move
forward with requests for proposals to design the facility.
All those in favor, say aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Those opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
It carries unanimously.
The need to expand and the process for how best to expand has
involved community input through public hearings, strategic planning
sessions, and community workshops for many years. This process
and the results have been widely communicated in the media and
through the county.
One in five of us will experience a mental illness in a given year.
Those in need are our sons, daughters, neighbors, and loved ones.
About 11:00 at night I got a call from Chloe's best friend. She
said that Chloe had cut, and she was unable to stop the bleeding.
She had cut 30-something times on her leg and had gashing wounds.
I didn't start cutting right away. It helped more of as, like, a
release, like, an immediate release, not, like, something that would
take over time to heal. It was that exact moment, that exact relief,
that exact release.
I was in such a bad place. I was in a bathroom with a bottle in
front of me and a needle in my hand ready to kind of end it all.
When I started drinking around age 12, it was only on the
weekends, but as I progressively got worse, I was smoking pot,
experimenting with cocaine till my very last point where I was
February 14, 2023
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shooting cocaine, shooting heroin and anything I could get to put in
my system to make me feel better.
My deepest fear was his death. I watched him do terrible things
to himself, the destruction of his body and his mind, the destruction
of our family unit.
I discovered on social media that every time I went on there,
there was a lot of pressure to be this perfect filtered image, and that's
not life, and that's not what I want my expectations to be.
The hardest part about, in hindsight, you know, dealing with my
daughter's depression, suicidal thoughts, self-harm was not having
the answers and not being able to help her.
I took her to the David Lawrence Center at that point. I didn't
know what to expect. I just knew that we were getting so
dangerously close to losing her.
So three years ago today I was in a really dark place. I was in
this hole, and today it's a lot brighter, happier, and I have a new look
on life.
Family today is stronger than it's ever been. There's been so
much growth that has happened. The communication is open. We
don't judge each other.
So if Chloe or anyone else in our family is feeling this way, we
now know how to help them, and we are that positive ending, we're
the happy ending, and I feel so blessed.
It gave me hope. It gave me hope for a future for him, a future
for me, and the impact that it's had on our family.
The life that I have now is beyond my wildest dreams. The
gratitude and the feelings that I have for my life today, for my
family's life today, the fact that I'm a part of my family today, the fact
that I have everything that I ever wanted today because of coming
into David Lawrence Center.
Since it's my turn, I'm going to say something. You know, five
February 14, 2023
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years ago we started a community process to bring together the
stakeholders in the community to try to do things differently in
Collier County because we can and we should, and that culminated in
this Board approving unanimously the mental health and addiction
strategic plan, the number-one priority of which was the construction
of a central receiving facility. That was a promise to the community.
It was a promise to families, to children, to the business community,
the schools. I mean, it was a -- it was a promise that I feel that the
Board made to the community.
And, unfortunately, this was continued. I'm not sure why it was
continued at this point, but it was -- it was continued, so it won't be
heard today. And I won't be here to continue to start the cheers and
at least do what I can do to make this happen.
So I'm asking the Board to, you know, make good on that
promise. We need to make good on the promise that we made to the
community.
So with -- having said that -- and I hope the next Board does that
because it's that important.
(The video concluded.)
MR. YOVANOVICH: Commissioners, that's the conclusion of
our presentation that this is the right location, and now is the time to
fulfill the promise.
With that, we're available to answer any questions you may
have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're about 10 minutes away from
taking a break. Do you have any speakers that you think wouldn't be
able to return in 60 minutes?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. Garrett Richter. A couple
other.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'd like to give those
people a chance to speak just so you've got all the people that you
February 14, 2023
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wanted to speak.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, if it's okay with you, I'll just have
them come up and try to grab their slips out of here. I know
Mr. Richter, and I'll recognize Mr. Morton as well.
MR. RICHTER: Well, thank you. Thank you. I had hoped to
start my comments off with "Good morning, Commissioners," but I'll
adjust that to "Good afternoon, Commissioners."
We heard this morning from Rich Yovanovich that this site was
permitted in 2007. As I look at our commissioners here, I recall in
2007, our community was honored to have Commissioner Saunders
as our State Senator, and I had the opportunity, when
Senator/Commissioner Saunders termed out of the Florida State
Senate, to succeed him in the Senate. And when I termed out eight
years later, I was succeeded by a wonderful person that represents us
now, the Senate President Kathleen Passidomo.
And so one of the -- one of the objectives I have here today is to
read a letter Senator Passidomo -- the Senate President can't be here.
But she's asked -- they've asked that I present her comments. And
this was a letter that was sent on January 12th to you, Chair
LoCastro.
I'm writing to you today to express my support for amending the
Collier County Land Development Code to allow for the construction
of a new behavioral health center along Golden Gate Parkway. I
strongly support the efforts of the David Lawrence Center and Collier
County to improve citizens' access to mental health care in our
county.
David Lawrence Center has seen an increasing number of
patients as Collier County continues to grow and, as a result, they
have an increasing need for more space to treat those patients. The
new facility is projected to contain 100 new crisis beds, more than
doubling David Lawrence Center's capacity to treat our local area's
February 14, 2023
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most vulnerable and allowing those who need support to stay in their
local community.
In addition, the new center will act as a central receiving for
Collier County providing local law enforcement, governments,
hospitals, and citizens immediate specialized care at a single location.
The Golden Gate Parkway location is particularly suited for this
purpose due to its central position in the county and its proximity to
Interstate 75.
It is for these reasons that I support the approval of the
amendment to the Land Development Code to allow for the
construction of a new behavioral center.
Sincerely, Kathleen Passidomo.
And we all know -- we have these telephones that we use, and I
rely on my phone for information that I don't have. So I asked
Siri -- before my comments here, I asked Siri if she would please
define the term "common sense" for me. Siri came back and said
common sense is good sense and sound judgment in practical
matters.
Given the information you've received today, the centralized
location, the familiar location, the cost effectiveness, the land being
donated and ready to go, I would say this fits that definition, and I
hope that you all vote with good sense and sound judgment on this
practical matter.
Thank you very much, Commissioners.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Ed Morton.
MR. MORTON: Thank you. Good morning.
Many of you have -- we've known each other for many, many
years. Some of us I have not had the pleasure of sitting down talking
specifically with you as individuals.
My background, for 35 years I've worked for NCH. I retired as
a CEO. I then had to -- undertook a 15-year career in ownership of a
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business partnership on Fifth Avenue. My wife and I have spent the
last 50 years here in Collier County. I was raised in Islamorada,
Florida, so I'm a Keys conch, so to speak. I'm also a military
veteran. I'm also a past sheriff's commissioner.
I have seen up close and personal and experienced a lot of things
in life, and mental health is one of those, and traumatic events, and
what some of us have done and seen has an impact on all of our lives
and those of us around us.
Wherever the tissue of our life is woven is woven with
relationships, and those relationships take on a life of their own, and
mental health takes on a life of its own. I've had the experience of a
family member, one of my children, to suffer acute mental illness,
and David Lawrence was there to help them.
There's very little that I could add to what I thought was a pretty
traumatic presentation, but I will add this thought: A delay of this
project will have a cost. And many people will talk about the cost to
the taxpayer of a failed attempt to build this building, albeit, four or
five years beyond when it was first approved by the taxpayers, and
that cost will be to the taxpayers. But there's another cost far more
important, and that is the cost in human life and dignity. Because
losing two or three years is going to be paid for by people that suffer
from mental illness.
And you have within your grasp today the opportunity to
acknowledge and to recognize not only the economic cost, but the
cost in human dignity, because it is only in caring for each other that
we care for ourself.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker's going to be Dr. Rebecca
Smith, and then I believe the last person that I've gotten so far from
Rich is Linda McKinnon.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Then we'll break after that
February 14, 2023
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speaker.
DR. SMITH: Good afternoon. Thank you. Chairman and
Commissioners, I'm Dr. Rebecca Smith. I am currently the president
of Collier County Medical Society. I speak on behalf of the CCMS
board of directors and our legislative team in support of proceeding
with the current preapproved plan to build the central receiving
facility at the David Lawrence Center's campus. Our local Collier
County physicians are seeing an ever growing critical need to
access -- to have access for in-patient mental health care in our
community.
This is the right place and the right time for the central receiving
facility to be built. We agree that it is the standard of care and the
best practice for central receiving facilities to be in a centralized
location that is easy to access and close to our two local healthcare
systems. It would be ideal to be located on or near the campus of an
existing recognized and expert mental health center as proposed at
the David Lawrence Center site.
It is essential to honor the needs of our entire community by
moving in a cost-effective and timely manner. Adhering to these
standards of care provides for the best possible outcomes to assist all
of those who deserve the full efforts of treatment and recovery.
With the closing of NCH in-patient psychiatric unit, my
colleagues are experiencing a growing census of patients who
desperately need in-patient psychiatric care. The acute care
hospitals do not have trained staff and programs to accommodate
their needs.
Current lack of access is resulting in patients spending more
time in the acute care hospitals without specialized care, and this
often necessitates their being transferred to other locations in Lee
County and across the state to the East Coast away from their support
systems. Our patients are from diverse socioeconomic backgrounds.
February 14, 2023
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From the homeless to family members of affluent neighborhoods
such as Port Royal.
Mental health affects the entire Collier County community, and
it includes a number of psychiatric illnesses and requires specialized
medical attention as does heart disease, diabetes, and stroke. Our
patients deserve to be treated in an environment that is conducive to
their healing. In the best interest of our community, we will
appreciate your strong consideration of the healthcare needs of our
neighbors, families, our friends, and vote yes to proceed with the
current plans.
Thank you, and I would appreciate your consideration.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your final speaker before lunch is
Linda McKinnon. I want to alert you that will leave us 65 more
speakers after lunch.
MS. McKINNON: Good afternoon. My name's Linda
McKinnon. I'm the president and CEO of Central Florida
Behavioral Health Network.
We work under subcontract with the Department of Children
and Families to assure a safety net of behavioral health services in all
of our communities. I'm not going to repeat what everyone's said. I
would just like to really remind you that David Lawrence Center is
already providing this vital and needed community service. They
already act as a central receiving facility and have the crisis
stabilization beds in place on that campus; been there for 40 years.
What we're looking at doing and need to do is to give them a
state-of-the-art facility to care for your community. Without it, they
will continue to be -- and many times I get calls from Scott that they
are over capacity. They have people having to sleep on mattresses
on the floor because there are no other facilities.
We also have in other areas of our network, for instance, Lee
County where we have a Crisis Stabilization Unit that can't be opened
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at this point in time because of the hurricane. We have a desperate,
desperate need in our communities for these beds. David Lawrence
has been providing this safely for a long time. This provides them
with the means to do state-of-the-art work.
And so I would just like to ask you again, please continue on
this path and allow that the facility be built as planned. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. With that, we are going to
break for lunch, and we will resume at 1:15.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:15 p.m. to 1:15 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. If everybody can take their
seats, and call the meeting to order here.
Okay. I know Mr. Yovanovich said he has a couple of speakers
that are tight on time, so we're going to change things up a bit so that
everybody gets a chance to speak on both sides. Who's your
speaker, sir?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Adrianne and Rich Weisberg, Chloe's
parents.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Are they here in the room?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. They're right here. And then
after that it will be Jim Mahon, who's with NCH. Dr. Jim Mahon.
MR. MILLER: Okay. So we'll have this speaker in person,
and then --
MR. YOVANOVICH: He's on Zoom.
MR. MILLER: And then he's on Zoom. So we'll be coming to
Jim Mahon on Zoom next. What was your name, ma'am?
MS. WEISBERG: Adrianne Weisberg. Thank you for
allowing me time to speak today.
I first want to address a video that was commissioned to depict
people with mental health issues as criminals, drug addicts, and
feral-like, and that people have suggested that putting the new facility
February 14, 2023
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by the jail is the best solution.
I -- as a mother that had a daughter that struggled with mental
health, I have to tell you this is extremely offensive to me and to
everyone whose lives have been affected by mental illness.
The only person my daughter wanted to harm was herself. She
wanted to harm herself because she did not feel worthy. She did not
know how to cope with the trauma she suffered of being sexually
abused at the age of six. We didn't find this out until she was a
teenager.
At this point, she was already self-harming, she was already in
therapy, and we had been to numerous therapists, but there was no
progress being made. I sought out therapists from all over the
country. I even sought people outside the U.S., somewhere,
someplace that could help us, and we always fell short. The irony to
this is that what we would soon find out is that everything that we
were looking for was right here in our backyard, the David Lawrence
Center.
Chloe was Baker Acted at DLC, and that's when our prayers was
answered. She was put in the CAT, the Community Action Team,
where she had a team of professionals that were kind, compassionate,
and made it their mission to get our daughter better. This is what we
have here. This is the opportunity that we should be giving to
everyone in need.
Because of the tools and the therapy and the amazing people at
DLC, Chloe went on to graduate high school early, and now she's in
college at the top of her class getting ready to graduate in four
months. She chose a career that will help thousands with the goal in
mind of paying it forward.
I'm going to cry.
We just had the pleasure of celebrating her 21st birthday, which,
when you've been on the verge of losing a child, every birthday,
February 14, 2023
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every milestone means just a little bit more. She really is the light in
the room, and she is a compassionate, amazing human being, and I
believe strongly she is still with us today because David Lawrence
Center was there to help and protect her when she was so vulnerable.
Please allow DLC to move forward today so we as a community
can begin helping people in need as soon as possible.
And I just -- I'm not great at impromptu, but I have to speak
to -- my daughter was Baker Acted twice. The first time she was
Baker Acted, she slept in a mattress in the Crisis Unit because they
were already over capacity. The second time she was Baker Acted,
they were going to move her over to Miami because they didn't have
room for her here. And when your child's Baker Acted, you only
have two hours a day to see her -- see them. You can't touch them.
You can't hold them. DLC was able to keep her here in county and
allow me to be with her in a time of need. We have to give this to
everyone. We have to move forward with this today. As someone
else said, this is going to save lives, and it will impact lives greatly.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right, then, Mr. Chair. We're going to go
on Zoom to Jim Mahon.
Mr. Mahon, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. I think
someone might have said it was "Doctor." You're with us, sir. You
have three minutes.
DR. MAHON: Thank you, Commissioners. I hope to only use
one of those.
Just briefly, I want to give you a quick overview here of our 715
beds at NCH (inaudible) 600 are occupied, but I'm pleased to report
that COVID-19 and flu has steadily been declining for the last 45
days. Most of the folks here are related to heart, stroke, and folks
riding bikes in high-traffic areas and folks like myself who should not
be on ladders or roofs.
February 14, 2023
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With two-and-a-half years of COVID, we have discovered with
our patient loads much higher senses of isolation, stress, fear, and
unbalanced behavior. In a healthcare setting, code gray means a
patient or a visitor is being violent. We've had a significant spike in
code grays the last year. And for the first 67 years of NCH, the only
security arming we had was with a smile. We now have tasers and
body cameras. So these trends are troubling, and the risk to all of us
with untreated, undiagnosed, and unmedicated correctly patients is
significant.
I am pleased to report, though, that with our new relationship
with Nichlaus Children's, we are allocating significantly more
resources to mental health for children and adolescents up to 18. So
we're going to take increased ownership over that section of our
population.
Thank you very much, Commissioners.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I was notified of one last
person. It's Jason Cooper who wants to read a letter from General
Fred Franks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Fine.
MR. COOPER: Hello, and good afternoon. My name is Jason
Cooper. I'm the assistant director of development at Home Base
Florida Veteran and Family Care.
First I'd like to thank Commissioner Kowal and Commissioner
LoCastro for your service to our nation in the military. I, myself, am
a Marine Corps veteran. I served nine years in the second Gulf War.
I'm also a Naples native, and I think this issue for me is important on
two folds. One, being a military veteran and how our community is
disproportionately affected by the invisible wounds of our military
service, but I also grew up in this community. So these services,
caring for our home, my hometown, our community, are incredibly
important to me.
February 14, 2023
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I have the distinct honor and pleasure of working with General
Fred Franks, and he often will talk about the implied trust that's
created between a service member when they raise their right hand
and swear to uphold and support the Constitution, that we will be
there for them when they return home from war.
General Franks would be here today barring a family emergency
and, on his behalf, he's asked me to read his letter.
Dear Collier County Board of County Commissioners, on behalf
of Home Base Florida, we want to express our strong support for the
Collier County central receiving facility to be built immediately at the
Golden Gate location near David Lawrence Centers. The central
receiving facility is desperately needed and essential to saving the
lives of veterans, service members, and their families experiencing
mental health emergencies in Collier County.
There are approximately one-and-a-half million veterans in
Florida, and over 27,000 live here in Collier County. It's estimated
that one in three will return home with an invisible wound to include
post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, and co-recurring
substance use. If left unaddressed, these invisible wounds can lead
to an increased risk of suicide. With nearly 11,000 veteran suicides
in Florida since September 11th, and over 125,000 across the United
States, the need for mental health and support services is critical.
According to the Department of Veteran Affairs, 38 percent of
Florida veterans were seen at a patient -- seen as a patient at a VA
healthcare facility last year, and that's 24 percent in our community.
With one million veterans not [sic] utilizing the VA healthcare
system, there's a growing need for public/private partnerships,
innovated community-based solutions to get veterans the care they
need.
In 2022, Home Base partnered with David Lawrence Centers to
offer mental health and substance-use services for veterans and their
February 14, 2023
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families who call Southwest Florida home, all at no cost to them.
Veterans receive evidence-based clinical care for a variety of mental
health and emotional health needs, including PTS, depression,
anxiety, grief, anger and loss, and transitional challenges.
The DLC partnership with Home Base is bringing healing and
hope to a region and giving back to those who have selflessly served
in our -- served our country. It's essential that this facility is built
quickly near the David Lawrence Center so veterans in crisis can
access the care they need and deserve.
Thank you for leadership and support of the veteran community,
General, Retired, Fred Franks, Home Base Honorary director.
In Collier County, veterans make up 8 percent of the population
yet represent one in four adult suicides. Today each of you, with a
vote yes, has the opportunity to go beyond the simple phrase of
gratitude, "thank you for your service," and demonstrate your
gratitude.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you have any other speakers
that are priority?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, that's it, and then if you have
questions of us, we're available to answer it, or you can move on to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't see any commissioners lit
up, so I think we'll just keep moving.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I tried to cull through this a
little bit and pulled out some duplicates. I think we have
approximately 50 of these left. We'll start with Sheriff Kevin
Rambosk, and he will be followed by Dudley Goodlette.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm just going to remind the crowd
of a couple things. First off, please silence your cell phones since
you came back from lunch. And it goes without saying, we want to
be respectful, so if the people at the podium are saying something
February 14, 2023
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you agree with, you know, moans or claps or not claps are not
something that adds to anything, as we have been saying here. And
also, if you're a speaker that's coming up, you know, you're on deck
to speak and you're hearing -- you've already heard something and
you want to just waive your time because you feel like it will be
repetitive. I'm not saying you have to do that. We want everybody
to feel like they've been heard. But if you feel like it's just repetitive
and it's not adding to anything, then all's you have to do is just wave
to Mr. Miller here and say, you know, I pass my time to the next
person so the next person can speak, and that will -- that will help us
move things along, but certainly not pushing or anything. Just
making sure everybody understands they have that option. Having
said that --
MR. MILLER: Yeah, Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I was supposed to
put Mr. -- or Sheriff Rambosk, rather, at the end of that, and I missed
that note. So we're going to start with Dudley Goodlette. And I
don't see Dudley. Followed by Father Michael Orsi.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He was here.
MR. MILLER: I know. I saw him earlier. I will go with Deb
Logan. I know Deb is here. Again, I was just speaking -- oh, she's
right here. And she'll be followed by April Donahue. I will hold
onto those other names to make sure we're not missing people in the
hall, sir.
MS. LOGAN: Good afternoon. My name is Deb Logan,
executive director of Blue Zones Project, Southwest Florida.
Our project relies heavily on data to inform the decisions and the
actions that we take for the well-being of the community. In that
spirit, I'd like to focus on data.
Thanks to our sponsorship, NCH Healthcare System, our project
is able to contract Gallup and Boston University to administer the
Community Well-Being Index Survey. That's throughout Collier
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County and also the sub-geographies within Collier County. So
what that really means is the analysis provided to us dials down to
specific ZIP codes in Naples, East Naples, Golden Gate, Marco, and
Immokalee.
We've been collecting this data since 2015. And our most
recent analysis was right before the hurricane hit was the last data
collection for 2022. So according to our '22 data, sans the hurricane,
83 percent of our community reports medium to high stress daily,
experiencing medium to high stress daily.
Even more concerning than that is that for the first time we are
seeing the percentage of people who are not thriving go up. So
approximately one in four people report as struggling or suffering,
and that's new. These indicators are red flags that the resiliency that
we all build to weather life's challenges is starting to wear thin, and
it's no surprise. We know these are unprecedented times that -- the
pandemic and the fallout from the mass migration into our area and
housing crunch, food issues, food insecurity, inflation, all of those
things that are impacting us, as well as hiring challenges for
businesses, and grave concerns such as polarization politically. We
know that the war on Ukraine, mass shootings, all of these things are
additional stressors that pile up, pile up, and they keep coming.
We keep telling ourselves, I can get through this and I can get
through it. I can get through this until one day maybe we don't. Per
our data, even the majority of the most well-adapted and fortunate
individuals in our community are struggling on some level.
Because the recent data does not reflect the hurricane -- the
blows from the hurricane, we are concerned, concerned that
numerous individuals who have just been holding on are just a
heartbeat away from being in crisis. The central receiving facility is
more urgent than it's ever been, the need for it. As we delay, it could
be one of our family members, our friends, et cetera, that need this.
February 14, 2023
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So I encourage you, please, let's not delay. Thanks so much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is April Donahue. She will
be followed by Dr. Zubin Pachori.
MS. DONAHUE: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank
you for your time. I am April Donahue, the executive director of
Collier County Medical Society, and I have some comments from our
physician members that they've asked me to share with you.
Collier County is woefully short of emergency mental health
receiving facilities. Patients often must be sent to Charlotte County
because of the lack of local capacity. Most of those shifted north are
old patients often with dementia and agitation. We need to expand
local resources in order to provide suitable emergency services for
these patients in need.
And next, clearly, this is the most logical solution to the
situation, and the surrounding neighbors' objection is rooted in the
unfounded myth that persons with mental illness are inherently
dangerous.
I am writing strongly in favor of a new CRF. This type of
facility is sorely needed in Collier County, a so-called blue area,
where patients with mental behavioral issues are not well cared for.
I have had patients, friends, and family who are in need of such
services and didn't know where to turn.
Calling the police or going to an emergency room in a hospital
where psychiatrists or behavioral experts are not available is
inefficient and harmful to the individual who's expressing suicidal
ideation because of delays. Having one central location that is
well-publicized where behavioral experts are present 24/7 is the right
way to solve this problem.
I fully support the new central receiving facility at the David
Lawrence Center. The lack of psychiatric care in this affluent
community is abominable. It is shameful that the jail is the largest
February 14, 2023
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provider of mental healthcare in our community. Let's change that.
I am strongly in support of this plan. Providing more beds and
integrating with the DLC would be of great benefit to the community.
We definitely need the beds, and the location makes sense.
I agree with the location adjacent to David Lawrence in
increasing capacity, as we are greatly understaffed right now to
handle mental health issues in Collier County.
I strongly support the additional beds proposed for the David
Lawrence Center in the central receiving facility. Our patients
deserve and strongly need this facility.
We need this facility. The architectural plans are very
community friendly, over and above to set barriers from surrounding
residential properties. Count me in as a supporter of using the land
for the new behavioral healthcare receiving facility.
Then, the central receiving facility would be of great benefit to
this county. Our current center is constantly filled and struggles to
meet the needs of the county as is. With the closure of the unit at
NCH, it's the only Baker Act receiving facility in a huge county.
Any delay in the construction of this facility would lead to years of
replanning in search for new land to build it. In this process,
potentially many lives could be lost related to lack of bed space and
resources. We're urging the county to approve this plan.
I do have more, but I don't have time. But I just want to say
that, you know, we invite the physicians to provide their comments to
us because, as you know, they are very unlikely able to make it to a
County Commission meeting.
And Dr. Pachori is unable, in fact, also, so he would cede his
time. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Thank you for that.
Your next speaker is Michael Dalby, and he'll be followed by
Steven Brooder.
February 14, 2023
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MR. DALBY: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Michael
Dalby. I'm the president and CEO of the Greater Naples Chamber of
Commerce, and I'm speaking in support of the location for this
mental health central receiving facility.
The Chamber of Commerce was the primary advocate on the
one-penny local option sales tax for the infrastructure improvements.
We made over 50 presentations on the sales tax. We spoke to
groups of as small as 15 and other groups that were over 100. Every
time we made these presentations, we would explain what
was -- what were these monies going to be used for, and in every
presentation explained that the term "expand mental health facilities,"
which was in the ballot, was related to expanding those facilities on
the David Lawrence campus.
In fact, in 2018, in June of 2018, the Naples Daily News
editorial board wrote an editorial comment just on the mental health
center and stated that, quote, this receiving facility would be
constructed adjacent to the current David Lawrence Center campus
near Golden Gate.
So there are some statements that are made that said people
didn't know what they were voting for. This was clear before the
vote. This was clear during all the discussions of the vote. It
continues to be clear, because it's still on the website about the sales
tax vote.
So we know that this, from the locational standpoint -- I don't
think very many people argue about this in terms of is it needed, but
the argument tends to be about the location. And we, along with
many other agencies, were making it abundantly clear throughout this
entire discussion that this was always considered; the first location
considered would be collocated with the David Lawrence Center
campus.
I think that from our standpoint, why does the Chamber get
February 14, 2023
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involved in this issue? It's because this impacts employers and
employees and their families, and that's why we know that it's so
important to have this type of service in our community. So I just
want to make clear that any claims that, well, I'm not certain that I
knew that this was how this was going to all play out or where this
was going to be located are unfounded. It was clearly stated
multiple, multiple, multiple times that this would be on
the -- collocated at the David Lawrence Center campus.
So I hope that you will consider all the information that's been
presented today and vote in support of the location.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Steven Brooder. He's
been ceded three additional minutes by Joe Trachtenberg. Yeah,
there's Joe right back there. And Mr. Brooder will be followed by
Polly Keller.
MR. BROODER: Mr. Miller, that -- if that ceding of the
minutes would apply to the next, 9B.
MR. MILLER: This is 9A and 9B together, sir.
MR. BROODER: All right. Well, Steve Brooder. I'm St.
Matthew's House. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
I'll be very brief. You've heard so much comment today, and I
just want to say that over the decades, St. Matthew's House and
David Lawrence Center have partnered to provide essential services
to our -- to our community, to Collier County.
The need for critical behavioral health and mental health
services is greater today than it's ever been. You've heard that from
many speakers today. So I'm here to just urge you to vote yes for
this project. We all say it's needed, but it's needed now. The voices
that you won't here today will be the ones impacted by a delay.
So with that, I just urge you to vote yes in favor of the location,
and let's get this project moving. Thank you.
February 14, 2023
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MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Polly Keller. She will be
followed by Jerry Godshaw.
MS. KELLER: Thank you, Commissioners, for all the hard
work you put into things like this.
My name is Polly Keller, and I am here today as a lifelong
advocate for mental health and a longtime volunteer helping the
David Lawrence Center become a reality in the expansive quality
system of care available to all in need in Collier County, a system of
care that reinforces the dignity of the person and help him or her
return to society in a contributing -- as a contributing citizen.
Our entire voting community recognized this dramatically
growing need and voted to raise their taxes to enhance this vitally
needed behavioral health continuum of care. Treatment for a
mentally ill person who, through no fault of his or her own, is
struggling should be immediately accessible right in their
community.
A continuum of care on one site, the site of David Lawrence
Centers, allows this immediate accessibility without disruption due to
a lack of beds or confusion of having to go to another location,
especially as transportation challenges are a major challenge for
many needing care.
When my husband architecturally designed the buildings at
David Lawrence Center, it was with the neighborhood in mind,
residential type structures that fit in with beautiful landscaping and
adding an aspect of serenity gardens throughout, away from the old
out-of-sight, out-of-mind locations that prevailed in a then
stigmatized country. Not so today. Our citizens are educated,
understand the need for care, and want this facility, and we want it
integrated into our community, as it should be.
I remember when attending the planning committee for the
county way back when we were trying to get our original approval a
February 14, 2023
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lady objected from the audience, afraid of this kind of neighbor, and
Paul Frank, a commission member, stated, ma'am, you ought to
worry about your children standing and waiting for the school bus
much more than this facility which is helping, end quote. Paul's
statement still holds true today. Those with mental health challenges
are more likely to be victims of crime than the perpetrators, and
David Lawrence Center is helping with our community's health and
well-being.
In the words of the late Queen Elizabeth, a quote from 1957,
quote, we need courage that can withstand resistance of the cynics,
end quote.
Please allow this caring David Lawrence Center to expand for
even more care for the community. Thank you for listening.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jerry Godshaw. He will
be followed by Eileen Connolly-Keesler.
MR. GODSHAW: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My
name is Jerry Godshaw. I'm actually an economist with over 40
years of experience in policy analysis at the federal, state, and local
level.
I don't claim to be an expert in the medical field of mental
illness and have limited experiences with individuals such -- who
suffer from such maladies; however, I approach this issue from an
economic perspective. There's no question -- we've heard it time and
time again -- we need more resources. I'm not going to repeat that.
That's been obvious. The proposed facility would still leave Collier
County short of what, as you heard, mental health professionals deem
adequate for a community our size.
More importantly, if someone doesn't go to this facility, they're
likely to either go to a hospital, someplace far away or -- at another
facility far away or, more likely, the jail. Not attractive options.
From an economic perspective, the cost of directly treating
February 14, 2023
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someone with mental illness is far less than the cost of keeping
someone in jail or shipping them to a hospital. In fact, a recent study
has demonstrated that it costs twice as much to provide mental health
care at a hospital than it does at a mental health facility. If this -- on
a national level, they could save $4 billion if they were treated at a
mental health facility.
And that's if you don't even factor in some of the indirect
benefits of treatment where people become productive members of
society.
Studies have also shown that the return on investment in mental
health treatment can be 800 percent. That's $8 for every dollar
invested in mental health treatment. Think about it. And that
includes things that factor in -- the reduced rate of recidivism for
minor criminal infractions that result in jail time, the reduction in
emergency department visits, and reduced law enforcement efforts, as
well as the ability to become productive members of society.
The economics of locating the facility on the DLC campus are
unmatched. The land is free. The required professionals are readily
available, and it is easily accessible to most county residents.
Furthermore, the cost of running the facility is actually going to
be borne by David Lawrence. Building elsewhere would cost the
county more money, but also the delay in construction would cost
lives, as you've heard before.
So I urge you to do the right thing. Save us, the taxpayer,
money and help safe lives. Approve the receiving facility.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Eileen Connolly-Keesler,
followed by Beth Hatch.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Eileen had to leave.
MR. MILLER: Eileen had to leave. Beth Hatch. Beth will
be followed by Angela Goodner.
February 14, 2023
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MS. GOODNER: I waive my time.
MR. MILLER: All right. Angela Goodner's going to waive
her time.
Lisa Gruenloh will follow Beth Hatch.
MS. HATCH: Good afternoon. Thank you so much for your
leadership today.
I represent NAMI Collier. And as NAMI Collier, as a national
recognized organization, we are proud to partner not only with the
county but with David Lawrence to serve the individuals in our
community that is increasing daily. We serve, at NAMI, children
starting at three years old all the way to our seniors, and those
numbers, again, are significantly changing, and not for the better.
I thank the Coalition of Healthy Minds for including our
participants at NAMI in the planning process. They were involved
in that process, and they -- as you heard earlier from Mr. Burgess that
this is the place next to DLC that they deserve and that they are
comfortable to be at, not as a suggestion near the local jail. Their
input was so significant because they live this life, and they are the
ones, they are family members, our brothers, our sisters, and our
neighbors.
Before joining NAMI, my career was in early learning and early
intervention, and we know that any intervention has a direct impact to
make a difference in a tremendous return on the community's
investment. I also quickly share today as a community member and
the last two-and-a-half months that I have spent with my 90-year old
mom who passed yesterday.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Awe.
MS. HATCH: Two-and-a-half months my mom was on the
second floor, the third floor, fifth floor twice, and on every floor at
NCH with those hard-working first -- essential workers, there was
someone, mom, dad, brother, sister, neighbor who were not
February 14, 2023
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criminals. They were patients, and they weren't there to cause any
trouble. The common word that you heard yelling from their room
was "help me, help me." And I am blessed to have these past
two-and-a-half months to be with my mom to be next to her as an
advocate, and those people didn't have any. And we need to change
how we see our healthcare system. If we have medical care, we go
to the hospital and get it. If we have mental health services that we
need, we should get it.
I made the tough decision 10 days ago to transition my mom to
Avow, and it was the most peaceful setting my mom could have been
in in her last days -- minutes of her life. And the people that we
serve in this community, I ask them, let's help them so that they can
have a voice and get the services that they deserve, just as I chose for
my mom.
Thank you on behalf of everyone. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lisa Gruenloh, She'll be
followed by Sarah Ridgway.
MS. GRUENLOH: Good afternoon. I'm Lisa Gruenloh, a
resident, business owner, and community partner of David Lawrence.
I work with drug court participants and a number of other ways I
serve there.
I support a yes vote today for all the reasons that you've heard.
We don't want mental health to go down the same road of delays that
we've experienced with affordable housing, as an example. We need
this now. However, having said that, in the spirit of love on this
Valentine's Day I want to offer support for residents, and I mean this
sincerely.
I've been the lead citizen advocate on two development projects
as board president of my church when Neal Communities was
building a new neighborhood next to our beautiful campus and in
Miami more than 20 years ago when Publix was building a whole
February 14, 2023
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shopping center right behind my house.
These were community assets that were missing and were
desperately needed in both of these areas. So me, along with my
congregation and board and neighbors, decided not to oppose these
projects but rather become tenacious advocates for ourselves. We
worked closely and productively with developers and their attorneys
to make sure that our interests were addressed every step of the way
in the process, and they truly were in those instances.
So development is hard. It's complex. These are not easy
things to do, but my hope is in this case that we can experience
something like I have experienced with my citizen advocacy in these
types of situations where you can give the green light today to this
facility at this location and continue to hold developers to a high
standard for listening to residents and proactively and responsibly
addressing concerns. And from everything that I have seen and
heard, I know. And I know David Lawrence. I know David
Lawrence and all of their partners are going to do this. They're
going to do the right thing.
So I, again, ask for your support and thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Sarah Ridgway. She'll be
followed by Melodie Streety.
MS. RIDGWAY: Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm speaking
as an individual. I have been hospitalized twice for depression and
being suicidal, and I have lost a son to suicide. I have also watched
my brother nearly drink himself to death, so this is an important topic
for me.
You're hearing plenty about the overwhelming need for the
access to mental health care in the county. It's all been made worse
by the growing population, the pandemic, the hurricane, and the
closure of NCH's in-patient unit.
I want to briefly address the neighbors' complaints about the
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expansion. For starters, they have lived next to the existing DLC
facility for years without news of serious crime problems.
Secondly, the property for the expansion was settled on by the
Commission a number of years ago unanimously after a great deal of
study. This was in the news. If there were objections, why are they
only coming to light now?
To reverse direction now will cost an inordinate amount in time
and expense and the need to find a new property which will be
magically free of upset neighbors.
Finally, I do not, myself, know a single family that is free of any
mental health or substance abuse problems. My own included. It
can happen to anyone of any age or income level. We are not all
scary men with criminal records. I can guarantee you that there are
people in the neighborhoods around DLC who have been or will be in
need of mental health care. They could be neighbors to any one of
us here no matter where we live. We may not be aware because it
can be a secret that is very well hidden. Sometimes it festers behind
closed doors until something precipitates a crisis.
If the neighbors think of DLC clients as "those people," they are
not us, they are mistaken. They are all of us. It makes zero sense to
try to banish people in crisis to some remote area, I guess somewhere
where it's okay to send undesirables. It will drastically delay the
next step in DLC's mission. It makes all the sense to have all facets
of care adjacent to one another so that clients only have to learn one
location, one transportation need, and there is integration of care.
DLC can instruct discharged clients to respect neighbors'
property, as they should, but I think there is more risk to any of us
anywhere from people who have been unable to access care and are
experiencing a crisis that might lead to violence because they are
untreated.
I urge you to please approve, without hesitation, the existing
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plan for the expansion. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Melodie Streety. She'll
be followed by Janet Hoffman.
MS. STREETY: Thank you, Commissioners. It's great to be
with you. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for receiving
my letter about a week ago on this topic.
And I want to express my full respect to you, Scott, your
leadership, to Jessica, a lot of members of your team, to this
community in this room. And the reason that I came today is out of
love and out of the condition of the heart and the soul in our
community on this subject.
I am a patient advocate. I'm a mental health advocate. I'm a
pro-life advocate. I'm basically a people advocate. Whatever you
have going on with you, I tend to walk with you through it. And I
have been through two different cases at the end of the spectrum in
terms of a young 14-year-old boy speaking out to me during a retreat
weekend that he had been a summer camp counselor counseling a
10-year-old boy who had suicide ideation. The 14-year-old boy
actually had his own suicide ideation that he had not given full
expression to until he told me why he was ideating. He has been
exposed to gang violence in the streets of New York since the age of
five with the -- is it the two gangs? I'm trying to think of their names
right now.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The Bloods and Crips.
MS. RIDGWAY: Yeah. The Bloods and Crips. Thank you,
Chris.
And that 14-year-old was put in a position of basically
mentoring to and disrupting suicide ideation in the 10-year-old during
a camp experience where they were amongst safe adults and safe
peers.
So that is a model that I would love to encourage our community
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to think about in the continuum of care as we move from in-patient to
outpatient in creating safe community, safe one-anothering in the
context of caring for each other, like our neighbors.
The other case was a 31-year-old fully educated Ph.D. from a
family of very high means. They could pay for anything at any time.
She was Baker Acted twice. I was with her on one of her Baker Act
experiences, and I was her person walking her through NCH ER
intake and all the way through Park Royal and back home. She has
been trained in a ministry certification to be a source of restoration to
her peers.
And so I want to say to you that there are alternatives that are in
the space of the faith community and the interdisciplinary community
to be a part of this continuum of care in this type of facility to you.
And let me just say that faith and community leaders are
typically the first point of contact to a family member who is seeking
assistance in the mental health space before they come and check
them in or turn them in. And we walk with them. We want to.
We want wellness for all of them.
And I just simply wanted to raise the volume again on the
condition of our soul and our heart in the community and to really not
leave our faith leaders, our religious leaders out of these
conversations and out of these planning coalitions that you develop
for projects like this.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Janet Hoffman. She'll be
followed by Jessica Siefer.
MS. HOFFMAN: Thank you very much, Commissioners, for
your leadership. My name is Janet Hoffman. I have been a resident
of Collier County for 43 years. I have a family member who was
Baker Acted 17 years ago, and the David Lawrence Center helped to
save his life.
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Our whole community benefits when mental health care is
provided to those who need it. Our community is safer and, as the
economist explained, there is less cost. So I won't go into all of that.
And as has been said, there has been a dramatic increase in the
need for mental health services. Even 17 years ago the David
Lawrence Center waiting room was packed. The crisis unit only has
30 beds with 40 or more people coming daily.
A majority of your constituents voted in 2018 for a surtax that
would help pay, in part, for this new central receiving facility.
Mental health and addiction affect our whole community, our
housing, schools, businesses, and transportation.
This facility is a part of a strategic plan that was developed to
improve lives and to improve the quality of life in Collier County.
Certainly, a larger facility will provide better care and greater
security.
So please save lives. Please vote yes for the safety and
well-being of our county. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jessica Siefer. She'll be
followed by Dr. Courtney Whitt.
MS. SIEFER: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is
Jessica Siefer. I'm the marketing and communications manager at
David Lawrence Center. And I am going to be reading this letter on
behalf of Randall L. Holdman, who's the senior pastor at Parkway
Life Church.
I serve as the senior pastor of the Parkway Life Church located
at 5975 Golden Gate Parkway next to the David Lawrence Center.
For the past 15 years, as the lead pastor I've had the honor to
continue a great relationship with the entire leadership and staff of
DLC. Both entities share in the same mission and vision which is to
serve the needs of our growing community. Within these many
years of being neighbors, our efforts to help build a stronger
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community through our services have brought us together sitting at
the same table to discuss and consider how we can contribute to the
health of our residents.
On many occasions we have partnered and combined our
resources to accomplish those tasks. The tasks -- the task at times
has been challenging, primarily due to the increased needs of mental,
emotional, and spiritual health, yet our mission to be a positive
service to our community remains the number-one driving force of
what we both do.
I want to reemphasize that again: The mission to be a positive
service to our community. I know beyond any doubt that is the
mission of this center and those who oversee and lead the work of
DLC.
I completely understand the concerns regarding the safety and
impact that this has in discussion for the past several months
regarding the future expansion. I'm also fully confident that as the
DLC staff have listened to these concerns, they have been diligent in
making sure that those concerns are heard, addressed, and understood
even to the extent of modifying the design of this project to ensure
both the safety in the surrounding community as well as the needs of
the clients and families who rely on their services.
As I mentioned in a previous letter to the county regarding this
project that is before our official leaders and community, these
services are imperative for our community. In fact, our community
is very fortunate to have a place of treatment and support that has
provided proven success over the many decades of the DLC
existence. Its continued growth not only speaks to the needs that
continue to increase but also to the success of what DLC continues to
accomplish through their ever-growing and expanding services.
One of the greatest decisions, in my opinion, the residents of
Collier County made was when they spoke through the ballot in 2018
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to provide expanded mental health services for our community.
These services and the center have been recognized as one of the top
mental health providers in the nation. Collier County continues to
lead the way in addressing the growing need for such support.
I can assure you, as an established pastor, I know I speak on
behalf of my personal colleagues, we need these services and this
decision the residents anticipate will have a significant impact on
making our community and families safer, more productive, and
healthier.
We are establishing a very valuable asset that will be passed on
to our youth and upcoming generations that will be eternally
appreciated.
My confidence and hope rests in knowing that working together
as a community with its neighboring residents and the leadership of
DLC will lead to the best decision for all. It is my hope that we will
continue to see our community thrive through the present and future
plans of David Lawrence Center.
Sincerely and laboring together, Randall L. Holdman.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Courtney Whitt.
She'll be followed by Amber Crooks.
DR. WHITT: Good afternoon. My name is Dr. Courtney
Whitt. I'm a psychologist in the community, and I'm the director of
behavioral health at Healthcare Network.
So I'm here today to echo all of the points that have been made
so far and just echo the ask to make this a reality for our community
now at this time without further delay. The truth was we needed it
yesterdays ago, and this is the next best option to do it now.
Just to pinpoint a few, I think, just important points that have
been made is just really highlighting the system impact. At every
level of the behavioral and medical continuum of care we're impacted
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by the significant demands and the capacity concerns within the
current receiving facility, and that's within the healthcare sector and
beyond, including DCF, the jails, the school system, which has not
been mentioned today, all managing a significant, significant amount
of risk, which we will do to save one life. It also creates restricted
access to others who just have emerging concerns because they're not
able to get in or even to get that evaluation that could save their life.
The other is, I think, just to highlight the humanity piece. This
is not "if you build it, they will come." Mental illness and addiction
are alive and well in our community, and it's really about treating the
individuals that are there with humanity, making sure that they have a
bed, a room, and that they're able to receive the timely access to the
lifesaving services and compassionate treatment that they provide at
DLC, and having their families around.
At the same time, there are the unintended consequences of
backing up the emergency rooms, making it harder to get other
medical care because we're juggling risk and kind of bursting at the
seams within our current receiving facility.
And just to highlight one further point. Again, this is not a
"them" problem. This is not a subpopulation. This is a collective
"us" problem. Anyone here, myself, you, a partner, a friend, a
family member, a granddaughter, a son, a neighbor, anyone is not
immune and can be impacted by mental health concerns. No patient
that I've seen has ever planned on things getting to the place where
they needed to go to David Lawrence Center, but that's the nature of
mental illness and addiction.
And so having a safe, reliable place in our community that has
the capacity to serve them as they continue to do is essential.
So thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Amber Crooks. She'll be
followed by Julie Gutierrez.
February 14, 2023
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MS. CROOKS: Good afternoon. My name is Amber Crooks,
and today I'm here as a citizen.
Much of what I had prepared has already been spoken about, so
I'll keep my comments brief.
I just want to share that, for me, I want to see my community
healthy and thriving, and that means having mental health facilities
that everyone agrees are needed in our town available and accessible.
So the current site that's proposed, that's where patients will get
the best treatment, and more people will be able to be treated. So in
my opinion, there is no better location than adjacent to the existing
campus, and there's no better time to move forward than now with
these lifesaving facilities.
Please vote to approve. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Julie Gutierrez. She'll be
followed by Theresa Pagan.
MS. GUTIERREZ: Thank you, Commissioners. I'm not used
to doing this, but I love my boys more than my fear of public
speaking. I used to be a teacher. I can speak in front of a room of
kids, but, adults, I think I'm going to cry.
I'm not opposed to a new behavioral facility at all, but I don't
agree with the location. I live across from the David Lawrence
Center. I have three boys. Two are back there.
I had a friend a while ago in law enforcement. He's retired
now, but he would call me and let me know when I should bring the
kids inside. This happened numerous times. Helicopters would
circle our home frequently. Imagine how the kids would feel when
we would have to rush -- when we had to rush inside and see
helicopters circling around.
Two people were arrested on our property the last year. Two
this last year.
I wonder a couple of things: What percentage of the patients
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want to be there? How many people have broken out of the facility?
Not that everyone there is a criminal. I'm amazed by all the things
that they've done, but I know that there -- everyone doesn't want to be
there.
There are three schools within one block of the facility, four
within two blocks: ABLE Academy, Kiddie Korral, Highlands
Cottage School, Bridge Prep.
I also wonder how the traffic won't be impacted if it's already at
gridlock several times a day. It just doesn't make sense to me.
They said it's not going to be impacted. How could it not be
impacted?
The image they showed of Golden Gate Parkway had two cars
on it. Has anyone ever been on Golden Gate Parkway? When have
you seen two cars?
I can't imagine how many more stories I would have if you vote
to build this facility on Golden Gate Parkway.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Theresa Pagan. She'll be
followed by Penelope Hayes.
MS. PAGAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you
for providing me with this opportunity to speak to you and thank you
for your service to our community.
My name is Theresa Pagan. My husband and I live at 5980
Painted Leaf Lane. Our home is directly behind Life Church, which
is adjacent to Lot 66. We both voted for the extra tax to pay for this
facility to be built, and we understand the need in our community.
We have family members who are dealing with mental health
issues, and it is devastating for our family. We and our neighbors do
not dispute need for a new facility; however, we do strongly object to
the location.
My husband and I are 62 years old. He is a disabled cancer
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survivor. At our age, we will not be able to recover from the
significant financial impact building a new facility on the proposed
lot will have on our property value. Our homes are our greatest
investment, and you will be taking that away from us, from all of us
in our neighborhood.
At one of the neighborhood information meetings, David
Lawrence Center representatives admitted that they treat sex
offenders. We should be able to feel safe and secure in our homes.
We have children and grandchildren. Do you really think it is a
good idea to expose us to more sexual predators?
At the neighborhood information meetings, we were repeatedly
told to just call the police if we have a problem, but at that point it is
already too late. Something bad is already happening. Building a
new facility on the proposed lot will intensify our exposure to safety
issues.
The noise disturbances are another problem. The dumpsters at
the current David Lawrence Center being emptied at 5:30 on
Saturday mornings and the ambulances, fire trucks, and police cars
with their sirens blaring and horns blasting as they're turning onto
Bathey Lane are noise disturbances we have to deal with every day.
Now they drive along a rock road, which has been created almost at
our property line before turning towards the David Lawrence Center.
We can see and hear those vehicles in our home. Even though we
have impact windows and doors, we can still hear them and, of
course, see them.
My husband and I implore you to consider the overall
intensification of negative impacts building this facility on the
proposed lot will have on us and our neighbors. It is not right to
sacrifice one person for the benefit of another.
In this case, you will be sacrificing an entire neighborhood for
the benefit and convenience -- convenience of the David Lawrence
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Center. We and our neighbors will have to live with the
consequences of your actions, not you, not Michael Dalby, not Andy
Solis, not anyone at the David Lawrence Center, and none of these
wonderful people dressed in green. We will.
It takes a big person to admit that they made a mistake. Are
you big enough to admit that this is not the best location for the new
facility? You have several other options in the county to choose
from.
I hope you do not, but if you do decide to approve this project,
please, at a minimum, require that a 10-foot wall be constructed
along the eastern and northern property lines with the northern line
extending all the way to the existing David Lawrence Center. This
was Option 1 presented by Peninsula Engineering at the Planning
Commission meeting on November 17th, 2022. That will hopefully
provide us with some measure of security. I have copies of Option 1
for you for your reference.
Remember, you should always treat others the way you would
like to be treated. Would you like someone to do this to you?
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is now going to be Elizabeth
Bloch. She'll be followed by Kate Balzer.
Elizabeth has been ceded additional time from five other people.
I'm going to need these folks to indicate they're present as I read your
name.
Heather Bloch?
MS. HEATHER BLOCH: Present.
MR. MILLER: Paul Schenk? Paul Schenk?
MS. HAYES: He had to leave.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Wayne Whidden?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. I don't see Wayne.
February 14, 2023
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Eduardo Moreno? I was told all the -- okay. I'm being told
that there's no one upstairs that registered to speak. I will try to
reverify that, but that's what I've been told.
Frank -- wow. Frank and Barbara is it Burke?
MS. BARKER: Present.
MR. MILLER: Okay. So I have three people -- or two people
that are present from this list. I know I'm being monitored on the
fifth floor right now. I'm sure someone will be down before these
nine minutes are up to let me know if that needs to be adjusted in
another direction. But at this point it would be for nine minutes,
and -- because that's all the time we have ceded present.
And then, Elizabeth, you know where your folders are, right
here? Do you know which one you want -- I didn't know which one
you wanted to go to first.
All right. You have nine minutes. If these other speakers
come in, we will adjust that and add that time on as well.
MS. BLOCH: Can I open both folders at the same time so I can
switch between them?
MR. MILLER: Sure, absolutely.
MS. BLOCH: Is that 12 additional minutes? We have three
speakers.
MR. MILLER: I only have -- I only have -- well, one sheet for
Frank and Barbara. Are you both here?
MS. BARKER: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Okay. We will adjust that to 12, then. Thank
you.
MS. HEATHER BLOCH: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Wherever you're ready.
MS. BLOCH: Thank you. I'm Elizabeth Bloch. I live across
the street, directly across from the five-acre parcel we're discussing.
I want to say to start off with, not one of us in my neighborhood
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is against mental health or well-being for the community. We're in
alignment with most of what most of you said.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, ma'am, just to remind you;
you're addressing us, not the crowd.
MS. BLOCH: Got it.
My neighbors asked me to show you this picture.
How do I make this bigger, Troy?
MR. MILLER: Let me see if I can assist you here. Plus sign
right up at the top.
MS. BLOCH: Thank you.
There are 10 additional properties I didn't have time to put on
the map.
In 2007, all of these people surrounding David Lawrence
Center, including me, did not know that you were creating a
subdistrict. We were not noticed. I've lived there since 1998.
Many of my neighbors have been 15 to 30 years on their properties.
We were not properly noticed. And at the Planning Commission
meeting, the planning commissioners asked staff and David
Lawrence Center's representative, Mr. Yovanovich, to present
documented proof of who was noticed, and that's not been done, so I
would ask you to please take that into consideration.
In 2021, when you voted unanimously as a group of BCC to
approve this, we were not noticed at that as well. This is the first
time, since May of this year when we received a neighborhood
information meeting notice, first time we were aware that any of this
was happening.
I'm going to tell you a couple of stories so that you understand
the impact that this is having already on us that live near this facility,
because none of the people that represented the other side of this live
there.
I was 18 -- sorry, I'm having issues with going between. I was
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18. I went to California to go to college. I was teaching
windsurfing a week before college started, and a man came toward
me with a knife. There happened to be a Los Angeles sheriff officer
that pulled up behind me. As I walked around him, he got off his
motorcycle to save me. He shot the man in the chest here. The man
dived on him and killed him with his knife. And for those of you in
the Planning Commission meetings that like to discredit us, this is
that story from the newspaper in Los Angeles.
And here's another piece of it. Five years ago two of the
higher-up in the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office interviewed me in Los
Angeles about this incident where Officer Edgington was killed.
Why did they do that? Because this incident has been used for more
than 40 years to train every officer in Los Angeles. I didn't know
that. I said, listen, I'm a deputy in Collier County as a volunteer, an
unpaid deputy with the Sheriff's Office here. Can I show this
training video that all of your officers are trained with to Collier
County, and they gave me this. I can't show it to you because I was
only given permission to share it with deputies being trained by the
Collier County Sheriff's Office. But this is real.
This was a mental patient that was off of his meds. Are some
of these patients dangerous? Yes, some of them are.
I've saved 11 lives before I joined the Sheriff's Office
personally. Two of them were my mother. I twice intervened in
her attempt at suicide, one when I was six, one when I was nine years
old. I understand mental health differently from people who see it in
the community. I've lived through it, and I've advocated and saved
lives because of my experiences and the traumas that I've been
through.
I also raised five foster children here in Collier County, all of
them receiving services at David Lawrence Center. I intimately
know their crisis unit. I know their medication services. I know
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their doctors' appointment services and all of that.
Here's the next thing I want to show you. When something
happens in Collier County, there aren't records kept by the officers.
They're not -- they don't file a record unless this issue is going to go
to court or unless they see the person themselves that's come to my
house. Here's something. This is my house. These are the calls
I've made to the Sheriff's Office. See where it says suspicious
person in yellow, suspicious incident and trespassing, that's all that's
on record with the Sheriff's Office.
So here's what happened. A gentleman -- three people from
David Lawrence Center right out of the Crisis Unit, after they got
released on a Baker's Act, have come to my house. I'm half a mile
from the current David Lawrence Center and across the Golden Gate
Parkway. They've come directly to my house.
This guy right here came to my front door, knocked on the front
door. I told him I couldn't help him, and he left. I left to go to an
appointment. When I came back a couple hours later, it was dusk.
A pizza box -- he'd taken a pizza box. He'd come back to the
property, took a pizza box out of my recycling bin, wrote an
enormous dissertation on it, and put it at my front door. Scared the
hell out of me, because this guy was 300 pounds 6-foot-2, a lot bigger
than I was.
So where is he now? Is he still on my property? I don't know,
so I called the Sheriff's Office. A deputy came out. It took us two
hours to thoroughly search my property because of the outbuildings,
the vegetation, the barn.
They had the helicopter, because by then it was dark. I had to
feed my horse. Am I going out to the barn alone with this kind of
thing happening on my property? There's no record of any of this
with the Sheriff's Office because the guy wasn't seen by the deputy.
It's not required to be reported. They can't report everything that
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they see.
So the deputy told me, this guy's coming back to your property
because of what he wrote. He said, he's coming back. When he
comes back, get a trespass warning issued; that way if he comes back
again, he'll get automatically arrested. And I thought, good plan.
Then I come to find out he was Baker Acted two hours before he
was at my front door as an unstable man. I highlighted in yellow:
Unstable man, unable to determine for himself whether examination
is necessary, substantial likelihood that without care or treatment he
would seriously cause bodily harm to himself. Two hours later, this
is the guy that was at my front door, and then he came back and left a
pizza box.
So this is a few days later. Guess what? He's back at my
house. I called the Sheriff's Office. Deputy wrote a trespass
warning for him. Here's a copy of it. Guess what? The deputy
never filed it. The Collier County Sheriff's Office does not know
that they should arrest this guy if he comes back on my property
again. This is what I want you to understand about the way the
system works. So when you tell us call the Sheriff's Office, this is
what happens. It's not fast enough.
The population that's being treated at David Lawrence Center, I
understand the needs of that community that needs mental health
support, but this is the wrong location for that.
Next one I'm going to show you is my foster son. I had him at
12. At 27 he was dropped off at my house. I'm going to make this
quick. I'm going to just run through a lot of it without giving you all
of the details. Finally got him Baker Acted. He was hearing voices
in his head, lost his sense of reality, substantial likelihood that he
would hurt himself or someone else. That was me. He was sitting
within two feet of me in my office at my house telling me that he
could not handle fighting the voices that were telling him to hurt his
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family, and he'd been telling me for four days I was the only family
he had anymore.
Sorry, I'm trying to work with all this.
Does any of what I'm saying to you give you a reason to buy a
property where I live near this potential facility you want to build?
Next thing I want to talk about is the sallyport. Here's a
sallyport. This is what they're -- they didn't call it that today in their
presentation. Basically, David Lawrence Center wants to build a
garage type of a thing for the deputies to drive into to drop off
someone at David Lawrence Center who's been Baker Acted. Who
needs a sallyport? A jail. You put a sallyport there to protect
deputies, not the public. It's to get the person from their car into the
treating facility.
If you'll allow me the time, Katie Huff, the vice president of the
Golden Gate Civic Association at 9:00 last night after I'd already
written my presentation, asked me to read this to you. Will you
allow me to read this?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Elizabeth, there's a clock in
front of you that tells you how much time you have right there on
the --
MS. BLOCH: I don't know what to do.
MR. MILLER: And the clock is stopped because you were
asking questions of them. So I'll start it again when you begin again.
MS. BLOCH: There's -- I'm not professional at this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, just --
MS. BLOCH: I'm just doing the best I can.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're not going to throw you out,
so just read what you want to read. We're listening. You've got
time.
MS. BLOCH: Thank you for taking off the pressure. I
appreciate it.
February 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely. Don't worry about it.
We'll keep you posted on time.
MS. BLOCH: Here is what she said, the vice president of the
Golden Gate Civic Association, with authorization from the civic
association.
The Golden Gate Civic Association is concerned for the safety
of all of residents and, most importantly, those impacted by David
Lawrence Center expansion, several of whom may have stated on
record that they have had David Lawrence Center patients trespassing
on their properties.
Shortly before Hurricane Ian, Golden Gate substation erected a
10-foot chain-link fence topped with four strands of barbed wire
around the south perimeter of their parking lot that fronts on Golden
Gate Parkway.
I actually have her pictures here that she wanted me to show
you. That's the -- that's the Sheriff's substation is the barbed wire. I
think I can -- that's what it looks like.
When asked the reason for such extreme fencing, I was told that
the agency was concerned for the safety of its personnel. Reasons
cited included people walking through the parking lot looking into
vehicles and taking photos of laptops. And an incident during which
a man with mental health issues was wielding hatchets inside the
parking lot of the Sheriff's substation.
It seems to me that law enforcement, whose officers are armed
and protected by bulletproof vests, found it necessary to erect a
10-foot chain-link barbed fence to protect their personnel from
people walking through their parking lot, that these residents who
live on rural parcels have a very legitimate concern for their safety as
well.
Please consider the safety of these residents when making your
decision today. It should be noted that the substation has since
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removed the barbed wire from the top of the fence.
Why does the Sheriff's Office want this location? Convenience
and saving time. It's six-and-a-half miles from here.
What's the difference between the deputies and we residents?
Well, let's see. A deputy that has somebody in the back of their car
has them in handcuffs, in a seat belt, behind a wire fence, and they
are trained, and they are armed to protect themselves. Can you say
that of me going out to pick up my recycling bin at the road?
When you buy a property near something like government
center, airport, hospital, you expect to have sirens, noise; a
courthouse, criminals; a Sheriff's substation. When you buy Estates
residential property, we should be protected by the Golden Gate
Master Plan which prevents this kind of commercial growth.
Let's talk about an elephant in the room. Why does DLC want
the county receiving facility to be on their five acres? It's a dirty
deal. They want to give us five acres in exchange -- they paid
$205,000 for it, by the way. In exchange for that, they get a 30-year
lease at a dollar a year. That's a monopoly, don't you think?
If we ever want to get rid of them because the quality of their
care is not up to the standards that we live with -- and, by the way,
who negotiates with a monopoly holder? How do we negotiate to
increase the quality of care or price or anything related to it?
If we ever want to get rid of David Lawrence Center, replace
them with somebody else, they have an automatic right to buy back
that property from us. In other words, let's say in five years we want
to replace them with a better provider, we believe they're better, we
have no county receiving facility and no mental health facilities
because we did the dirty deal, and we put our county receiving
facility on their land.
On paper, it may look like our land, but it's not our land if they
have the right to buy it back if we want to get rid of them. It's a quid
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pro quo.
What effect would rezoning this property have on the property
between it and the existing David Lawrence Center, the Parkway
Church property? What does this zoning do to that? Does it give
them automatic commercial rights to develop as well? That has to
be considered in this -- in considering, because this is only about
location. This is only about a zoning issue here.
And somebody -- a lot of people have talked about "don't delay."
I agree, don't delay. But it's been from 2019. You've had four
years. In two years you could have built a facility. We could have
had it open for two years if you'd put it in a proper location and
weren't waiting for David Lawrence Center to do this shady deal over
that five acres.
Some of you talked about stakeholders being invited to all of
these Board of County Commissioners meetings and things like that.
I'm sorry, am I not a stakeholder? Are all of the properties I showed
you on that map, are we not all stakeholders? We didn't know about
those meetings. We weren't invited to them. And nobody asked for
documented proof that they were noticed, because I'm telling you we
weren't.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, you're a couple of minutes
over, but just start to wrap up.
MS. BLOCH: I am starting to wrap up. Thank you.
This location puts the county in a dependent relationship with a
provider who has a lifetime monopoly. It puts the facility in an area
where there are no supportive services. So when somebody finishes
their treatment, whether it's Baker Act or something else at David
Lawrence Center, what do they need? Housing, food, social
services, health department, medication, and transportation. You
know, it takes my foster son three buses to get to that facility for a
medication appointment? And if he misses it, it's seven days before
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they can get him in again.
It's only two days before you start to decompensate, and you
won't get on your medication any longer. It puts us in physical
danger. I've told you about some of the trespass on my property, not
all of the trespasses I've had. These are not unfounded fears. These
are realities that my neighbors and I have experienced.
I'm wrapping it up.
Please ask for documentation that the proper notices were issued
from staff and from David Lawrence Center's attorney. Please,
instead of giving David Lawrence Center commercial zoning and
carte blanche, put the receiving facility that we need to own on
property that we own and control so there's no future risk of losing
mental health facilities.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's your time, ma'am.
MS. BLOCH: Your next speaker is Kate Balzer. She has been
ceded three additional minutes from Nate Balzer, and I see his hand
up back there, and he will be followed by Jason Cooper.
MS. BALZER: Good afternoon, everyone. I just wanted to
say thank you so much, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity to be
here today to speak on behalf of our neighbors and myself. I also
want to thank you very much for your service to our country. It
means a lot.
I -- again, my name's Kate. I am at 5895 Golden Gate Parkway.
Our property, as well as my husband, together, are on the exact
property line of where the new David Lawrence Center is proposed to
be built.
I did see the renderings today, and I do live there, and I can tell
you that those look a little different than how close that is to our
property. As you're turning off of the parkway into our driveway,
our property line is literally at where that five-acre forest is.
I, at the previous commission meetings, had spoken, the
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commissioners had spoken to us. And I am a realtor. I've been a
realtor for almost 20 years, and I did do my homework in regards to
purchasing the property. I did see at one time that there was a
for-sale sign next to our home that had five acres. I called the
previous real estate agent and had asked, what happened with this
property? Why was it withdrawn? Maybe we would consider
purchasing it.
At that time, the gentleman had explained there was a lawsuit
pending with the current foundation. There was no plans of
anything else going on with that. I also went to the county
appraiser's office and had asked if anything was changed with any
type of zoning; what was going on there.
There were some rumors, after speaking with that gentleman
that had the property listed, that David Lawrence was considering
doing something. So at that time I went over to the David Lawrence
Center personally myself and had asked if there were any plans for
this project to be built, and I was told no, not at this time.
So my husband and I proceeded with purchasing the property in
2021, and that would have been June of 2021. We spent almost
$1 million on our home, which is a lot of money for us. I'm 41 years
old. I've worked really hard. I have had my own set of health
issues where all I wanted to do was spend and live time -- my time in
Florida.
My husband and I have two children ages 14 and 16, who we
love dearly, and this location's perfect for us. My son goes to Naples
High. My daughter's at Gulf View Middle School. We move in.
Everything's great until the incidents start happening. And I also
want to preface, we are very, very positive, and we are for the David
Lawrence Center and what they offer and the services to the
community.
But what people don't realize and the people in green here -- that
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are here today are not our neighbors, because if they were, they
would have been invited to our home at our meetings, and I haven't
seen any of them. So until you live in my house where I live or our
neighbors in red today live, you really don't know.
So we move into the property, and then the instances start
occurring. Outside of my front door, I have a gentleman trying to
walk in as we're trying to have dinner. Thank God my husband was
going out into our garage. There's a gentleman approaching our
house that thinks that he's going to the David Lawrence Center but is
in need of serious mental health; that is very scary, if you can just
picture yourselves like that.
I have gates in front of my house, and this is 70 yards away, and
I have gates. Very scary. I immediately after that went right over
to the David Lawrence Center, which leads me to my next point that
when we were at these meetings and informational meetings, I stood
there with Scott Burgess in front of us pleading that all of our
concerns are being -- falling on deaf ears. Nobody is listening to us
neighbors. This is a problem.
Not everyone that needs mental health is necessarily a criminal,
of course not, but there are people that are. They invade our privacy.
They invade onto our properties. Our other part of the presentation
will explain a little bit more about that.
So my whole point to that is we have expressed our concerns to
them. They've said to us, okay, we want to hear you out at the
meeting. We come to the commission meeting, and he stands up
here and says, I've never heard of any neighborhood complaints.
This facility's been here for years. We've never heard of any of you
neighbors with concerns. We are there. We're begging, we're
pleading to you that we have people coming onto our properties.
In addition, a week ago, my husband's taking our daughter out to
the bus, and we have to worry about things like there's drugs outside.
February 14, 2023
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We had to call the police.
We had a gentleman in -- fully in need of mental health with a
bloodied shirt peering over onto our property. Do you know how
scary that is? It's terrifying. My husband can't be home with me all
the time. My son can't be there all the time. It's a really very scary
experience. And to see that there are articles that have been printed
that say that us neighbors have unfounded concerns is completely
insulting. I have no reason to make any of these concerns up
whatsoever.
I also think it's really important -- people are saying, okay,
they're just worried about their property values. Well, of course
we're worried about our property values. This is our number-one
investment. Whenever I go to people's homes, the first thing they
say -- they don't want to hear anything about how marketing. How
much am I going to make on my house? So how am I going to sell
my house? I've asked other commissioners, I've asked people at
DLC, are you going to buy my house? And every single person says
no.
So we're just stuck. We're having a property being built that
has a 10-foot wall. That is making us feel as though we're in a
prison. What about our mental health? What about my mental
health? What about my daughter's, my son, my husband's, all of us
neighbors that are terrified?
You're talking about people that are in crisis that are going to be
at these facilities. There are sex offenders at these facilities. What
if someone creates this big, whole fantasy and comes onto my
property? If you vote yes, that is something that I feel -- as
commissioners, that's a responsibility. We need an advocate for us
as neighbors and as good people in the community that do respect
mental health care.
Final thing, I just ask that -- we're in red today. They're in
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green. Maybe we need to be on yellow. There are other locations
for this facility. And as military members, you know, they say,
never leave a man behind. I feel like we're being left behind. Why
is our mental health as neighbors being pushed aside because, oh, we
have to hurry up and put this project. Of course, a project is needed,
a facility for David Lawrence needs to be expanded that's bigger, but
it doesn't need to be on my driveway or on my neighbors' backyards.
We are very nervous. This is a very serious issue, and we just
want to be sure that we're being heard. The information that was
stated before about we were notified is incorrect. It is false. And I
have seen Mr. Burgess stand up and lie right in front of us after we
had recorded concerns.
So I just appreciate if you please have an open mind and hear us
out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jason Cooper. Oh, I
guess we've already had a Jason Cooper. I had duplicate slips. I
thought I caught them all.
Pedro Rodriguez? Pedro Rodriguez?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Cathy McQueary.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Are you Pedro? Okay. Pedro will be
followed by Cathy McQueary.
(No response.)
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Okay. So I will be brief. I, too, am on
the north end of the new expansion. And I just want to attest
to -- business owner, family, got my wife and five kids. And we
moved in the property approximately 10 years ago. And I have been
witnessed of some patients coming through, and in the preserve that
you guys have built, it's almost a refuge for hiding, doing drugs, and
February 14, 2023
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also there's been cases of people trying to set fire.
I am all for what David Lawrence believes in. As a
brother-in-law who's took his own life and a niece that has been in
the David Lawrence Center, I can totally attest, and I'm grateful for
what you do; however, the security measures and the things that are
in place are just not enough.
The current facility is a little over a half a mile from us. This
new facility will be right in my backyard.
Again, as a new and proud grandfather, I'm thinking down the
road of what could occur when you build something that's bigger.
Again, I know the need is there, and it has to be done. As far as
current location, maybe we need to kind of delay it or move it. But,
again, something that worked and something that's been working is
great, but something that happened and founded 50 years ago needs
to maybe be changing with more residentials and more people going
in in these communities.
So that's my testimony, and I appreciate it.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Cathy McQueary.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Troy, how many do you have left
in the stack there?
MR. MILLER: We've got quite a few left. Around 25 maybe,
although the number is fluctuating here as we find out duplicates and
lose people as well. Cathy McQueary. I'll put her aside. Marilyn
Varcoe.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She had to leave.
MR. MILLER: She had to leave.
Diane Preston Moore.
MS. MOORE: Good afternoon, and thank you for the
opportunity to speak to you today.
Diane Preston Moore, I'm the president of the League of Women
Voters in Collier County. The League of Women Voters supports
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access to quality mental health and substance abuse services, and we
support the central receiving facility location.
It's no secret that Collier County has a crisis in mental health
and substance abuse, and that crisis has grown dramatically over the
past decade. In fact, since 2007, the number of Baker Acts in Collier
County has quadrupled, and there is an urgent need for a new facility.
Your yes vote would carry out the will of your constituents.
The citizens of Collier County showed their support when they
voted to tax themselves a one-cent tax to pay for a mental health
center. Your yes vote is fiscally responsible. The taxpayers and the
county do not have to pay to purchase this land because David
Lawrence Center is donating it. That means that the one-cent sales
tax that has been collected can be used to fund more beds, not to buy
property.
Your yes vote will carry out the county's long-term vision. The
county has long recognized the need for expanded mental health
services. In 2007 and again in 2021, the County Commissioners
unanimously approved this location for the DLC to expand.
Your yes vote will address some of the neighboring
homeowners' concerns. The David Lawrence Center has been
serving this community at its nearby location for about 50 years. We
understand that neighboring homeowners expressed concerns about
trespassers purportedly from the center on their property. Saying no
to this facility will not resolve that issue.
Even if the facility is not built on this site, the David Lawrence
Center will still operate its Golden Gate Parkway location. Saying
yes to the intake center on this site would actually do more to resolve
the neighbors' trespass concerns because of improved security. The
League cares about mental health, and we believe that each of you
care about improving Collier County citizens' access to mental health
treatment and substance abuse treatment. Delaying the construction
February 14, 2023
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of a mental health facility will cost the taxpayers money and will
endanger the lives of our most vulnerable citizens. This facility is
needed now, and the League asks you to vote yes to approve the
facility. Your yes vote will save lives.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, if I might make a suggestion. We
have two more individual speakers, and then the speaker after that's
been ceded 16 additional speakers for 51 minutes. So maybe these
two and then the court reporter break?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to -- that's exactly
what we're going to do.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jim Warnken followed by
Michael Ramsey.
MR. WARNKEN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Jim
Warnken. I'm the acting chief financial officer at the David
Lawrence Center.
I want to set the record straight with something that was said by
Ms. Balzer. I, at the time, was serving full time with the David
Lawrence Center as a chief planning officer when I received a phone
call from Kate Balzer on May 18th, 2021, and she had indicated that
she had been over at the center earlier that day, and that she had some
questions for me, and if I could please call her back.
I called her back, and she wanted to know about what was going
on with the property next door to hers. I explained to her -- and at
the time, as the chief planning officer, I was intimately involved with
Scott Burgess, other members of the DLC team, and the county, and
we were planning the future central receiving facility that had been
decided back in February was going to be located on our property.
I explained that to Ms. Balzer, that this was going to be a county
constructed building but that we were planning to operate that
facility. And she had many questions about the fact that she loved
February 14, 2023
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the house. She wanted to buy the house. What should she do.
And I said, well, I can tell you this: I would be willing to bet my life
that the county will do the right thing, have the appropriate setbacks,
landscaping, everything else. And in my view, I've been with the
David Lawrence Center for six years, and we've been good neighbors
ever since I've been affiliated with the organization.
So I made it very clear to her what the plans were for that
five-acre site. So I just wanted to set the record straight as to what I
responded to Ms. Balzer when she called me.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker before the break is Michael
R. Ramsey.
MR. RAMSEY: My name is Michael Ramsey. I am the
president of the Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association.
Commissioners, if you ran for this office to help the future of
Collier County and not for personal economics, this is the issue. If
you ran for this office to protect the quality of life of the residents
now and in the future, this is one of those issues.
Four main points: Number 1, the taxpayers paid for two studies
done by consultants to find the best location for this property. The
current location was not selected in either study. More research
needs to be done on that.
Number 2, it's been made clear in testimony at the Planning
Commission there was an ongoing issue with patient behavior post
release. This is ongoing and current and hasn't been addressed.
Number 2 [sic], it has been made clear that the information,
when this has been reported to the Sheriff's Department, when it's
reported on back, it's not clear as to what was the issue or what was
the case with the behavior of the patient post release.
Number 3, your decision today should be made based on
accurate information collected from reliable sources.
February 14, 2023
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Number 4, the petitioner has not provided reliable accurate
information about patient post behavior in the residential community.
This needs to be researched further before you make your decision.
These points give -- indicate there's a need for a long-term
planning solution. The current solution today appears to be
half-baked. More research needs to be done, and patient post-release
activities, a better location, 24/7 support for services both for the
residents and the patients post release.
We recommend to not approve this today and study it more for
the long-term solution, especially for another location.
On other issue for this board, I would like to put on the record
that I object to Former Commissioner Solis lobbying this board. It is
in district violation of the recent constitutional amendment, Article II,
Section 8F, passed 12/31/2022, which says that a county
commissioner cannot lobby before its former board for six years. I
am done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're going to take a
break and then return promptly at 3:00 p.m.
(A brief recess was had from 2:46 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If everybody could take their seats,
and we'll get started. Please take your seats.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's just you and I. We could
go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep. Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, here they come.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you. If you'd take your
seats, please.
Before we move on to the next speaker, I've asked the County
Attorney -- one of the previous speakers had mentioned something
about a law, ordinance, whatever the official term is about a previous
commissioner speaking at the podium. That concerns me greatly,
February 14, 2023
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and so I want to separate rumor from fact.
Mr. Klatzkow, I asked you to research that, and if you would
correct the record for us.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I knew Commissioner Solis was
coming. We had chatted earlier before that. He's not being
compensated for this. He's here as a private individual and giving
his opinion, which everybody else who's signed up to speak is in the
same boat. No difference.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So there's no six year, you know,
moratorium on speaking as a citizen after you're done serving?
MR. KLATZKOW: There's no such date requirement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Okay. We'll move with the next speaker.
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chairman, your next speaker is
Penelope Hayes. She's been ceded time from 16 additional speakers.
I'm going to list them off here and try to keep track of this as we go
along.
Burt Hayes?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Is here.
Yousi Cadero? Cardeso? Yousi?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. I'm going to put her as not here.
Sally Anderson?
(Raises hand.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sally is here.
MR. MILLER: I see Sally back there.
John Anderson?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: He is right here.
Alexander Pagan?
February 14, 2023
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(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: He is here.
Susan Salzmann?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Here.
Kenneth Kerner?
MR. KERNER: Here.
MR. MILLER: Is here. Yeah, thank you.
Catherine Schenk?
(No response.)
MS. HAYES: She had to leave.
MR. MILLER: She is not here.
Nancy Kerner?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She's not here.
MR. MILLER: Victor Moreno? Or Victoria Moreno, excuse
me. Okay. She is not present.
William Fawsett?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. Thank you.
Christina Fawcett?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Sean Balzer?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right.
MS. HAYES: He's here. Oh, he had to leave?
MR. MILLER: Marie Peter?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: She is here.
Wallace Peter?
(Raises hand.)
February 14, 2023
Page 156
MR. MILLER: He is here.
Desire Hope?
(Raises hand.)
MS. HOPE: Here.
MR. MILLER: She is here.
So from my original, we're going to take four of those away.
So that will be a total of 13 minutes or --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Excuse me. There's more.
MR. SALZMANN: Hey, I had some from Tom Salzmann.
MS. HAYES: And Debbie and Lauren.
MR. MILLER: I have called all of the slips that I was given,
sir. If they've either already been attributed to someone else, I --
MS. HAYES: No, they haven't.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wait one second. So those of you
raising your hand, you filled out a slip to speak, but you're not going
to speak, you're going to give her your time. So raise your hand, and
stand up, if you will, say your name, and if he doesn't have your slip
here, then your slip evaporated somewhere. So we have to have
your slip if you filled it out.
Sir, what is your name?
MR. SALZMANN: Tom Salzmann. It was brought in with
my wife, Susan Salzmann. I handed it to the gentleman out here at
the door. I handed both the slips to him directly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We believe you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's two more.
MS. LANBERG: Debbie Lanberg and my daughter, Lauren,
Lanberg. Again, we handed our slips in this morning --
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MS. LANBERG: -- at 8:30.
MR. MILLER: I don't have those slips but, obviously, these
February 14, 2023
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people are here. That takes us back up to 16 speakers for a total of
48 minutes.
MS. HAYES: And that includes mine, Troy?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Is that okay with
everybody? Okay. Let's try to figure out how slips disappear, but
the fact that you're here is what we care about. We're not trying to
split hairs. We want you to -- we want to hear from everybody.
Penelope, the floor is yours.
MS. HAYES: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, I am Penelope Hayes, a citizen whose property abuts the
proposed site in Golden Gate Estates.
I am representing a group of more than 35 households, not
individuals, but households, the Save Golden Gate Estates
Committee.
By way of a video following our comments, we will show why
the Estates are especially and uniquely vulnerable to the standard
operating procedures of David Lawrence Center or any behavioral
health central receiving center, and we have the history to prove it.
A 64,000-square-foot behavioral health central receiving center
located in an Estate residential neighborhood is a square peg in a
round hole. So how do you make a square peg fit in a round hole?
You chip away at it over time and pound it in until it fits, unless it
doesn't.
To say where were you all prior to July 23rd, which we've
heard, only shows how little is known of the insidious steps taken to
convey this land and how gross the abuse we have taken over this.
We do not accept it.
Our large group consists of many business owners, a ship
captain, a volunteer police deputy, a fire commissioner, a science
teacher, a bank manager, a paralegal, a church administrator, two real
February 14, 2023
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estate brokers, two healthcare workers, mothers, fathers, and
grandparents.
As for me, I am a number-one best-selling author, expert on the
Dr. Phil show speaking to suicide and social issues, and the new head
of TGR TV, a television network broadcast in 25 countries around
the world.
We are also a neighborhood whose community culture is to be
aware of land and changes that could degrade Golden Gate Estates.
We are people who have chosen a particular life. We are not a gated
community or a development of sameness. We are not condos or
starter homes or a place to live for a season of life. Owning acreage
is a responsibility, and it takes commitment, stewardship, and
lifeblood. It's an investment. And for each of us Estate
homeowners, it is a lifestyle of peaceful tranquility that we bought
and built and nurtured with our savings and effort. We are people
who help their neighbors and look out for each other.
This community knows exactly what David Lawrence Center,
Inc., said Track 66, Unit 30, would be used for. Since 2007 that has
always been, quote, to expand their existing center on existing
campus and utilize Tract 66 for native vegetation and water retention,
end quote.
In this presentation, we will show through a timeline the fact
that our neighborhood had just two months as notice of a new
stratagem, borne from the $25 million in surtax; just two months to
organize and collect 172 legal declarations, not signatures, but legal
declarations, of our history of DLC client trespassing, day and night
sirens, and drug needles left on our properties; just two months to
consult an attorney on course of action against the county should you
move on what will devalue our properties to the extent of being akin
to a taking; just two months to learn of the professional report that
recommended several other sites above this one and to meet with
February 14, 2023
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you-all and many outside this room, just two months, August and
September of 2022, from the first neighborhood information meeting
on July 26th, 2022, to when this item was brought before the
Planning Commission on October 6th.
Tuesday, October 6th, was the night we were shown the
professional rendering of a 64,000-square-foot institution with 102
beds, a tremendous capacity load. It is a plan so absurd -- I'm just
trying to scroll this up here. The rendering even depicts Kate and
Nate's Balzer's pool and the view they would have changed from
forest to involuntary detention center, a plan in any configuration so
wildly unreasonable, illogical and inappropriate when squeezed in
next to Estate residential homes. It's got to make you feel just a little
bit icky.
To say that anything like this plan had been long-standing would
be untrue and dismissive. Here are the facts chronologically. 2001,
a million-dollar promise is made to the state. No more special uses
or subdistricts on Golden Gate Parkway between Livingston and
Santa Barbara. In 2001, when the petition for I-75 interchange at
Golden Gate Parkway came before the BCC, there was a promise
made to the county -- by the county to the Florida Department of
Transportation in exchange for one million dollars to keep this
corridor green with no more proliferation of special uses, subdistricts,
or zoning changes. At that time the Golden Gate Area Master Plan
read "no more changes to master plan."
To follow up on the county's commitment to the FDOT, an ad
hoc committee was established by the BCC, and their work resulted
from these goals for our area and corridor. Quote, quiet residential
living, family and neighborly atmosphere, safe for children, wildlife,
a respite from commercial blight, desire to maintain privacy,
maintain the existing character, no further enhancements or
intrusions, end quote.
February 14, 2023
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Just the next year David Lawrence Center Foundation buys the
residential lot, a/k/a Tract 66.
Just a few months, on July 29th, 2002, the five acres known as
Tract 66 is bought by the David Lawrence Foundation for $230,000;
however, the GGAMP and ad hoc committee, only months prior,
resolve no more changes to zoning. So what was the plan?
March 5th, 2007, despite the GGAP [sic] and ad hoc committee,
a new subdistrict is created. Real estate zoning attorney Richard
Yovanovich was on the case on behalf of David Lawrence Center,
Inc. And just like that, the first ever iteration of plans for Tract 66
emerged and with the creation of an institutional subdistrict on
March 5th, 2007.
A comprehensive staff report was prepared, which examined the
Petition CP-2005-6 and was submitted to the Collier County Planning
Commission on March 5th, 2007, for the transmittal hearing.
Spoiler alert, the staff report recommended not to transmit.
In 2007, they knew it didn't fit, and here's why. Referencing
the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, as it was at that time, the report
read, resulting from the state's approval to fund and construct I-75
interchange at Golden Gate Parkway, the Board of County
Commissioners approved Resolution 2001-56 establishing an ad hoc
advisory committee, later the GGAMP restudy committee. The
restudy committee identified areas that were inappropriate for new
commercial and conditional-use development. One such area
identified by the committee was the Golden Gate Parkway corridor
between Livingston Road and Santa Barbara Boulevard.
In 2003, the restudy committee met with I-75/Golden Gate
Parkway ad hoc committee members to discuss desired land uses for
the area surrounding the interchange. As a result, the restudy
committee recommended to the BBC [sic] provisions that would
prohibit new conditional -- commercial and conditional-use
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development along Golden Gate Parkway in the Estates.
It further read, this project is not consistent with the policies in
the Comprehensive Plan that prohibit new conditional-use
development along Golden Gate Parkway between Livingston and
Santa Barbara Boulevard. Additionally, a commitment was made by
the county to the Florida Department of Transportation in
consideration of the approval and construction of I-75 interchange to
keep the Golden Gate Parkway corridor green and not allow the
proliferation of commercial and conditional uses, end quote.
The criteria for conditional-use permit reads, quote, the petition
should not be injurious to the neighborhood or adjoining properties or
otherwise detrimental to the public welfare, end quote.
Still, the BBC approved the subdistrict and, therefore, amended
the GGAMP language to read, no more subdistricts except for the
institutional subdistrict.
Was this when it was made clear that DLC wanted to expand on
Tract 66? No.
For anyone following plans for Tract 66, they would have
understood from public record that David Lawrence Center's plans
for Tract 66 was native vegetation and water retention. Mr. David
Schimmel, the president of DLC, said so under oath on March 5th,
2007. When asked specifically about plans for Tract 66, he said,
quote, to retain water, which we can no longer do on our eight acres
and, quote, what that five-acre parcel does for us is give us a
tremendous amount of native vegetation, end quote. This is what
was public. And there is the screen shot from the actual minutes of
that meeting.
That testimony informed the subdistrict approval, and that was
the only plans made public for Tract 66 until July 26th, 2022. But
why was there no opposition from neighbors when the subdistrict was
created? How can this be given the culture of the neighborhood to
February 14, 2023
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look out for each other? We'll come back to that.
2018, $25 million in surtax for the county's -- county's group
care facility. On November 6th, 2018, taxpayers voted for the
one-cent sales tax. Along with it, copyrighted 2019, Collier County
set up a website, Collieronecenttax.com.
The David Lawrence Center is assumed to be the provider to
occupy the county's coming-soon asset; however, public monies, tax
funds cannot be appropriated or used for the purpose of acquiring or
improving private property like DLC-owned land.
So while surtax monies began to be collected, a spurious search
for potential sites began for the Collier County group care facility
and, yet, from 2019, the county's own website read, quote, the county
would use revenue to support the David Lawrence Center to build an
expanded mental health and addiction treatment facility.
I do not have to say, Michael Daley [sic], president of the
Chamber of Commerce, in part made our case for us earlier. Thank
you, sir.
That testimony -- pardon me. Looking at the screenshot here,
this is the screenshot from the county's own website. If anyone is
unclear, the site selection shown in this map below on the county's
website dated 2019 took place before the engineering study of
potential sites. That was 2020 before a request for proposal, RFP,
for a service provider, which never happened, before this board voted
on the item titled "site selection" dated February 23rd, 2021, and
before a neighborhood information meeting at last held on July 26th,
2021.
Here is a screenshot of the project site map. You have to dig
and dig that website, and I did, and you go through the layers, and
you'll see the map. What it looks like, this was DLC's $25 million
baby from the beginning.
2020, the Jacobs Engineering study of five sites, every
February 14, 2023
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professional report and study has not recommended this site in
Golden Gate Estates for this purpose. At the end of 2020, Jacobs
Engineering delivered to their client, Collier County, their extremely
detailed report, the culmination of a full year-long study from
December 2019 to November 2020, five potential sites for this
project.
The government center Building W was ranked the No. 1 site in
the formal recommendation. In fact, it scored highest in
measurables specifically for behavioral health center. I'll scroll this
up so you can see this screenshotted from the report. Here's the
criteria: Form, function, time to build, and overall, plus no zoning
issue. Furthermore, the report states, quote, this site does create a
tranquil and aesthetically pleasing view overseeing the pond, end
quote. Incidentally, at this site, there is no Estate residential near by.
Conversely, the five-acre site in Golden Gate Estates ranked
No. 4 overall, second last place.
The site analysis was specifically for a group care facility,
behavioral health center receiving center with the criteria provided by
David Lawrence Center and Collier County Sheriff's Office. Let me
go back to that, because that's this circled in red.
Yeah, this is right out of the report. The site analysis general
project scope reads as follows from Page 1 of the report: Review
program operational needs provided by DLC and CCSO.
Sometimes this is hard to read, and it's important to know that what's
called Site 1 is actually site ranked No. 4. Andy Solis was correct
earlier when he said we've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on
site studies.
This is also from the report, and this is just where you will see
the development of site matrix, and I'll read from that: Quote, after
reviewing the site suitability matrix, Sites 4 and 5 have the highest
scores. Site 4 scored the highest at 289 points. Site 4 scored higher
February 14, 2023
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than any other site in form, function, and time segments and scored
the most points overall.
Site 5 scored the highest score for the economic segment, and
here's the map. Sites called 1 and 2, those are on Golden Gate
Parkway. Site 1 is the 5-acre wooded lot. The two highest ranked
sites are on this map, Site 4 and 5 at that government center. Site 4,
the highest ranked, is next to the museum and in front of the pond.
February 21st, 2021, of the five potential sites, only one was
presented to the Board of County Commissioners on February 21st,
2021. The top recommended from that year-long study were not
presented to you by county staff or Sean Callahan. Only David
Lawrence Center's choice was presented.
The higher-ranked sites were not fleshed out. What was not
discussed was the No. 1 and No. 2 ranked site at the government
center, what was not discussed, that Tract 66 would mean cramming
a 64,000-square-foot, 102-client-bed commercial building between
Estate residential family homes. It was not discussed.
Sean Callahan presented a very thin overview to this Board and
pushed DLC's choice. It was a disservice to you and a waste of time
and money.
What was discussed was how to move forward with what would
be presented -- what was presented as Site No. 1, the second-to-least
recommended site. What was touched on is the fact that it is illegal
to improve private property with tax funds. The property was owned
by David Lawrence Foundation at the time. David Lawrence
Center, Inc., was in the middle of a lawsuit against their own
charitable foundation to gain the land. Later DLC, Inc., won that
lawsuit.
Today the property is currently -- currently owned by David
Lawrence Center, Inc. We know there's a contract in place, but it's
still currently owned by David Lawrence Center.
February 14, 2023
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What was also discussed on February 21st, 2021, was how DLC
could, if greenlighted, could convey the land to the county. The
residential zoning was discussed. The lack of request for proposal,
RFP, competitive bid for a service provider was discussed. A
vendor contract was discussed.
Here are some highlights from the minutes of the BBC.
Commissioner Solis said, the lease back to David Lawrence Center,
that really doesn't accomplish what we have to accomplish in terms
of using the surtax money to improve the property, but what I
understand today, all we're doing is we're directing staff what
property to look at pursuing in terms of building this facility. We're
going to go from using the jail as our main mental health facility to
something different.
The meeting never touched on what's best for the neighborhood
in which the treatment, not jail institution would be impregnating. In
all the discussion, the words "neighborhood," "neighbors" or
"compatibility" were not mentioned. There was zero discussion
about the residential neighborhood in which this parcel is carved out
of, yet how clients to the facility would feel comfortable in a, quote,
neighborhood setting, end quote, that was discussed, although the
actual neighborhood or families within were not discussed. No one
even questioned why the neighborhood was not there to oppose or to
witness or comment. There were just six public speakers all for
DLC. There was no opposition, not a single neighbor in attendance,
how strange, given our history of trespassing and other unpleasant
experiences, even police records of incidences with DLC clients.
And so it begs the question, why was there no -- not one
representative in attendance from the neighborhood in which the
county was planning to squeeze in a completely incompatible
64,000-square-foot two-story facility for Baker Act, drug rehab, and
behavioral health?
February 14, 2023
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Because in 2021, and all years prior, there was a loophole in the
code of ordinance on mailing notices in which the size of the Estate
properties had been overlooked. I'll expound on this in a moment.
With no opposition and not a single member in attendance, and
despite all real studies and recommendations against the site
selection, the preferred-by-DLC neighborhood setting was voted on
as the selection to pursue, and here we are.
May 2021, neighbor Kate Balzer is told by DLC they have no
plans for the lot. She's already spoken to this, and I'm going to leave
it at that. I spoke to her in the hallway on the break, and it was two
separate individuals she spoke with at David Lawrence Center. Both
told her there was no plans for the land. It is Kate Balzer's testimony
that she asked and was deliberately deceived.
July 26th, 2022, the first -- first duly noticed neighborhood
information meeting. Until last year, the county code of ordinance
Chapter 8 under mailing notices read, quote, all property owners
within 500 feet of the property lines of a subject property, end quote.
This screenshot from the code of ordinance is how it read prior to
2022. There it is right there.
Our property, my husband and I, is 660 feet deep. Our property
abuts this property. All of our properties are deeper than 500 feet.
This loophole in the ordinance that allowed this site pursuit to get this
far was finally closed last year in 2022, and here it is, here it reads, all
property owners within 500 feet of the property lines of the subject
property or one mile of the property lines of the subject property if
located within the areas designated in the urban Golden Gate Estates
sub-element of the Golden Gate Master Plan. Hallelujah.
When Peninsula Engineering sent out the mailing notice for a
May 4th, 2022, NIM, they missed this amendment; therefore, a
second NIM was required by law. That notice did go out to one
mile, and the neighborhood showed up to the neighborhood
February 14, 2023
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information meeting on July 26th, 2022, in such large numbers that
they had to set up more chairs to fit us in.
At the July 26th, 2022 NIM, neighbors begged DLC not to do
this to us. We cited incident after incident of trespassing, daily noise
from sirens, occasional screaming patients, and drug needles left
behind from DLC clients, plus strong opposition to the deep
devaluation of our real property that would be caused by the
intensification of a new and massive client load.
September 7th, 2022, just one month after the first NIM, the
county staff already had their recommendation submitted. This was
before the Planning Commission meeting and before neighbors
testified for the first time. The county staff already completed and
dated, September 7th, 2022, their report and recommendation to
approve. This recommendation did not factor us.
November 17th, 2022, the Planning Commission
recommendation, do not recommend. That was unanimous. On
November 17th, considering dozens of speakers and hours of
testimony, the CCPC voted unanimously to not recommend this site.
There are two sides to compatibility, and the Planning
Commission factored our existence. Here's the reason why.
Chairman Edwin Fryer says it right here in his closing comments.
This is why he voted as he did. Now, with the advantage of time of
having the full transcript from our October 20th meeting in front of
us in our agenda packet today, so I took the liberty of reading
carefully through it so that I could remind [sic] of exactly what
testimony we received from all sides, and I found sworn testimony of
trespassing, menacing stares, dirty hypodermic needles and drug
paraphernalia, incidents of sheriff helicopters, searching flood lights,
law enforcement entering their property, screaming patients in their
backyard sometimes for half an hour, security issues, elopements, and
getting recorded messages on their home phone to stay inside and
February 14, 2023
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keep their pets inside until the subject was located. All of this can be
found in the transcript, end quote.
That was a quote from Commissioner Fryer. He actually goes
on to state, to me it's common sense that says that this project would
undoubtedly have the effect of increasing the frequency and intensity
of these undesirable behaviors. I think that's common sense. And
so for those reasons, I will be voting against it, end quote.
Today, February 14th, 2023, public comments. From our
testimony the message is, one, do not intensify; two, no
compatibility; three, the Estates neighborhood is especially
vulnerable given our history of DLC clients hiding in our
outbuildings and large wooded properties.
Scott Burgess stated under oath at the BCC meeting on
February 23rd, 2021, found on Page 85 of the minutes, quote, we're
dealing with a lot of folks that have struggles with paranoia and
addiction, end quote. I'm referencing this for compatibility. At a
meeting requested by the CCPC to take place between sessions with
them where some neighbors and DLC reps, including Scott Burgess,
met on November 10th, DLC was asked by a neighbor if they ever
have sex offenders in their care. And you've heard that a couple of
times, so you might want to know where it came from. This is
where it came from. Here are the minutes. DLC chief clinical
officer replied, yes, although that didn't come easy.
I'm not going to read all of this. I think you get the point. You
can read it there on the screen. The neighbors' comments are not
highlighted. DLC's staff replies/comments are in green.
It was actually our neighbor Ken Kerner that said, on the sex
offender basis, maybe you shouldn't take sex offenders, people who
are registered sex offenders into your facility. There are preschools,
two of them, .4 miles from the David Lawrence Center, and the
response was, so individuals are everywhere that could potentially be
February 14, 2023
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a threat, okay? That's a fact.
At the July 26th NIM and at the October and November CCPC
meetings, when asked about how to stop the trespassing from their
clients and our suggestion that clients be driven elsewhere, perhaps
back to their homes or from whence they came, Scott Burgess
repeatedly replied, they have their civil liberties and can walk right
out the door, end quote.
The use of this facility far exceeds compatibility to be placed
with Estate residential homes all around. See the facilities project
goals as stated on the Collier County website.
Increased capacity. This is a link to what I'm not going to play
now, but we have the full video from the first and only duly-noticed
neighborhood information meeting that's at this link. These
screenshots are from that video. We've typed up what was said.
DLC patient screaming in our backyard at the top of their lungs
sometimes for a half an hour. This is the population that has
problems with boundaries.
Eleven p.m. or 12 midnight police cars and ambulance sirens at
the existing DLC. Increasing the intensity puts us all at risk. Trust
the system.
Today is the first time this board has had public comments from
the neighborhood as a direct result of not being duly noticed. To
ignore the neighborhood's history of unacceptable and dangerous
interactions with DLC clients and move forward on a zoning change
from residential to institutional would be a rush to judgment.
I'm going to skip that part.
David Lawrence Center has already won bigtime. I mean this
with all sincerity. They won the new $25 million facility. They
won with the offer of numerous better-ranked sites. They won a
lawsuit against their own foundation for the land. They won by
being given a service contract with no competition, yet a recent event
February 14, 2023
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is unclear. On January 25th, 2023, this is just a couple of weeks ago,
the Catholic Diocese of Venice bought, for $5 million, the Parkway
Life Church next to DLC documented here in a trustee deed under
Bishop Frank J. Duane. The very same church located in the middle
lot of the institutional subdistrict. Did you hear that from anybody
else today? Who will benefit from this? Who else would pay
$5 million for that church? Is there a hidden plan? Did this site just
get even more muddy?
And for the record, this is the screenshot. Sale date,
January 25th, 2023, $5 million.
The agents for DLC have delayed the county's need for this
facility by pushing for a site that is incompatible, a site that is muddy.
Two things are true. DLC is the winner no matter what
happens today. This county facility will be built regardless of
location. Those two things are true.
Solutions and alternatives, a win-win, not a winner takes all.
This project will happen regardless of location. There are
alternatives with greater compatibility. This is a county project, not
a DLC expansion.
Optics matter. This county project should not be located on
property well known as owned by the service provider. There is a
cleaner path. There is a path where everyone wins. We believe that
we've addressed reasonable solutions in that other sites have
undergone a lengthy site study. These still exist.
Number 1, the number-one ranked site at Government Center
Building W scored highest. Number 2 ranked site, the government
center existing street parking lot scored second best.
Further, other potential sites have been identified by some. To
name just two additional site options, the museum at government
center, a building of modular units. We went over and investigated
it. That could be moved to Tract 66 five-acre parcel, providing the
February 14, 2023
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museum with a lovely forested property teeming with wildlife
including Florida panther and bobcat and coyote, by the way, that we,
my husband and I, observe nightly moving between our property and
the five-acre wooded lot. And yes, of course, we have cameras.
The sites are the same size. The museum's website reads -- this
is the first sentence on the museum's website, nestled on five acres.
Our neighborhood supports this land swap. We're just trying to give
you suggestions. We're not the experts on this.
Another suggestion brought to us is the Naples Rug Gallery on
Tamiami Trail adjacent to government center. This is a strong
suggestion. It should be studied.
There are more options still. And we have to believe that if
there is care to effort for a site that doesn't harm, an intensification
that can be found [sic].
What do you think mental health is? On a personal note, I will
share that I was homeless at 15 years old, a runaway. In my early
20s, I was attacked while in my home by a man who was hiding in
the house when I came home one night. When I tried to reach my
phone -- this is back in the old days when we had phones with words
on them -- he grabbed it from me and wrapped the cord around my
neck.
Then he grabbed a fistful of my hair, threw me against the wall
with the force of a lion, then on the ground and began smashing my
head into my kitchen floor while my cat, Sabrina, looked on. I told
her to run because I didn't want him to hurt her next. She did run.
The police came because my landlord next door heard my
screaming. That man was someone that I had dated but broken up
with. He went to jail after that. Later I found out that he had beaten
two girlfriends prior to me, but this was the first time he went to jail.
Instead, in the past he had only been counseled. I know that because
my uncle was the sheriff.
February 14, 2023
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Not only is this story true told to you under oath, I have written
it in one of my books published years ago in 2020.
For the next years after that experience, I was afraid of
everything, afraid to go out, afraid to come home. My dad installed
bars on my windows and a false housing for a camera conspicuous in
the trees facing my front door. Between his court dates, he did it
again. He bent the bars and became in through my bedroom
window. I had to move after that to an apartment building.
I was traumatized and lived in fear for a while. I went into a
depression. I even spent three weeks in a hospital for post-traumatic
stress. I know both sides of this.
Today, my husband and I have a beautiful oasis of a home and
property so beautiful that I use the back of our lot, the area abutting
the five-acre parcel, to pray and meditate, to sit peacefully with my
dog, Maggie, and sometimes hold group meditation classes, which I
also teach at Shy Wolf Sanctuary as a volunteer. It's where we have
our bonfires and camp out.
I know what mental health is. It's contributing to society and
community. It is doing the work, living a productive life, and
enjoying home as a peaceful respite, not because it was handed to us
but because we earned it and nurtured it.
This is on Facebook, Collier Coalition for Healthy Minds. This
is Lawyer Yovanovich right here very recently in preparation for this
meeting asking everybody to come out and wear green, and he says
the quote from petitioners -- that's us, that's me -- say we love the
mission, hate the location. Yovanovich goes on to say, we lose a bit
of our humanity when I hear that, and it bothers me. Wow, I'm so
sorry that bothers you.
DLC has been in this neighborhood for 48 years, he says, and
has been a good neighbor. This project is a vital community asset.
We agree.
February 14, 2023
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In summary, everyone can win. When we organized our group
directly following the July 26th NIM, many neighbors were
discouraged even bothered trying. They said, quote, this is Collier
County. Our voices don't matter. The little guy never wins.
And still, we rallied. We are bringing you a problem and a
solution. This project will happen regardless of site choice.
Burt, can you hand me a Kleenex out of my purse? Thank you.
The only holdup is in trying to make a square peg fit in a round
hole.
We respectfully ask our district commissioner Burt Saunders, on
behalf of the citizens of your district, to make a motion to research
other sites.
In closing, to conclude our statement, we leave you with this
quote. Quote, leadership is solving problems. The day soldiers stop
bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading
them. They have lost -- they have either lost confidence that you can
help or concluded you don't care. Either case is a failure of
leadership, end quote, Colin Powell.
You have the power to inspire this community that everyone can
win and that greater solutions are possible when the time is taken to
consider all.
Thank you, Commissioners. We still have a video to play.
I'm still available for questions. If Troy can play the video, I'm
going to sit down and gather myself, if that's okay, and then I can
attend the podium, again.
MR. MILLER: Is there no audio on this?
MS. HAYES: There is. There's audio.
(A video was played as follows:)
We don't need you to confirm it. We know who we're talking
to.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is that as loud as we can --
February 14, 2023
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If somebody stands in front of me on my property 150 feet in
from the main road in two cases, 300 feet in from the main road in
the third case, and tells me they just came from David Lawrence
Center, I genuinely don't care if you believe that they came from
David Lawrence Center because I know what I heard, and I know
what I experienced.
Do you ever have sex offenders in your campus? Known sex
offenders? Do you ever have them in your campus?
If someone's brought into us involuntary, I guess there's a
possibility that someone that's brought into us --
Do you ever have them? Have you ever had them? Have you
had sex offenders at your campus?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Do they get reported to the database?
Yes. We're a mandatory --
To the sex offender database?
Yes --
And how do you release them to the neighborhood? How are
they released?
How are they reported?
Every case is individual. I can't think of a case right now, but I
guess you have to be more specific with what your question is.
We're talking about a sex offender --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
A sex offender is pretty --
We've been threatened on our own properties, and I haven't
heard you address any of that right now.
On a sex offender basis, maybe you shouldn't take sex offenders,
people that are registered sex offenders, into your facilities. There
February 14, 2023
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are preschools, two of them .4 miles from the David Lawrence
Center.
So individuals are everywhere that could potentially be a threat,
okay, and that's a fact.
That's not the point. The point is you're actually bringing them
to our neighborhood.
Right, but we're not talking about if they're outpatient. I think
last time we were here we talked about how probably the people that
might be trespassing and whatnot are probably people coming to us
for their medication visits.
And how do you plan to --
And that's an interesting point. We have no civil jurisdiction
over those individuals. They are individuals that are not under
Baker Act. They're not under any order by the Court or anything.
What can we do?
(Unintelligible) deal for you guys either, right? I mean, this is
the best place. There's no resources near by. (Unintelligible.)
Well, it's considered to be the evidence-based practice, and this
is the way that it's been done in every other central receiving facility
in the state of Florida.
How many are in residential neighbors that you know of?
We just visited two in the last two months.
Where?
Lakeland and Bradenton.
But with properties like this --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
-- forested, chain-link fence, and I could walk right into the
neighborhood.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
-- wooded areas.
Wait, what did he say?
February 14, 2023
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Chain-link fence, chain-link fence, chain-link fence.
That was Scott Burgess, the president and CEO of David
Lawrence Center. We're not going to take his word for it. We're
going to check it out ourselves. So first let's look at Suncoast. He
referred to it as Bradenton, same thing. Here they have a nice main
campus. They have some facilities, some parking lots. Looks like a
tennis court.
But then the surrounding area -- let's check that out, because
that's what we're really looking for. Burgess is saying it's the exact
same thing as the proposed site in Golden Gate Estates, Naples,
Florida, which are Estate residential neighborhoods.
What we're looking at here is Bradenton, and there are no Estate
residential near this campus. Let's look at it on Google Maps just to
be sure. Get some identification markers. Again, here's Suncoast,
otherwise known as Bradenton. Right directly behind that large
building is a Walmart supercenter with a very large parking lot. Still
not Estate residential.
Here's a residential area. This is condominiums, luxury
condominiums, and, again, condominium developments are not the
same as Estate residential zoning.
And here let's look at Lakeland. That's the other behavioral
health center mentioned that's also in Florida. So here's Lakeland
Behavioral Health. Here's their main campus. What is this space
here? Could this be Estate residential? No, it's a golf course.
Okay. So we have wide open spaces. The point we're making
with Estate residential is places to hide. These are the type of
problems we've had, the clients from behavioral health coming in
hiding in our sheds, outbuildings, workshops, forested areas on our
large residential properties called Estate residential.
So looking again at what else is around Lakeland. There is
some residential. There are some streets of residential. And take
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note, this is standard residential zoning. In fact, they don't even
appear to have trees or sheds. They don't have anything on their
properties.
This is a mobile home park, so no trees, no outbuildings, no
yards whatsoever. Definitely not the same.
Let's look at Golden Gate Estates. This is the area that we're
talking about that Scott Burgess said was the same as those ones you
just saw. So let's see if it's the same.
This is our neighborhood. This is Golden Gate Estates in
Naples, Florida. This is the existing David Lawrence Center that
you're seeing now. This is the surrounding area. This is what we
have been talking about. This is what Estate residential zoning looks
like. These are all single-family homes on Estate residential zoned
lots. These are large properties, two acres to eight acres each one of
them.
This is the -- on the left you're seeing the five-acre lot in
question that they would like to put yet another DLC. This would be
their central receiving center, and they would like to put it in that
five-acre lot. And you'll see residential homes all around. The
property, the lot, the five acres is literally carved out of an Estate
residential neighborhood.
To be fair, let's look at the whole areas. Is there anything else?
So Kiddie Korral, that's a daycare. Again, these are just homes.
This is what Estate residential looks like. Let's see it from another
angle. So some of these markers that come up are just small
businesses that people run, and they've attached their home address to
them.
People who live here build dreams. They have horses and
barns and equipment. Sometimes for their small businesses they
enjoy the privacy. They plan to stay here for a lifetime. This is not
living in a condo for a few years. Estate residential is a very specific
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lifestyle, and Golden Gate Estates was set up to protect that lifestyle,
the Golden Gate Area Master Plan.
This is where we were sitting on our back patio when a K9 unit
came through with his handler looking for somebody who had
escaped and went through our shed.
But let's go back to Lakeland and Suncoast Behavioral Health
Centers. Okay. So these were referenced by DLC themselves as
best practices behavioral health centers that happened to be located
near residential. This first headline reads, a dozen teens involved in
Lakeland escape. The article states records obtained by the news
leaders show that Monday was not the first escape from Lakeland.
Perhaps Bradenton, otherwise known as Suncoast, has a better
track record. Let's see. This article is talking about another escape
during the intake process at Suncoast Behavioral Health in
Bradenton.
Now, this is particularly alarming from Suncoast Behavioral
Health in Bradenton. This is from OSHA, this is the U.S.
Department of Labor's website, and it is talking about a very recent
incident in 2021 tracking two-and-a-half years of cases of 50 attacks.
A federal judge finds Bradenton Behavioral Healthcare Center
exposed workers to more than 50 attacks by residents.
The facility operates as Suncoast Behavioral Health Center in
Bradenton.
Now that you guys have heard what we've said have happened
on our property with your existing location, what do you think is
going to happen when you add intensity to it?
-- continues tonight for this man who escaped, we're told, from a
mental health center and then carjacked a woman in Delray Beach.
Authorities say Angelo Colis (phonetic) can be violent and does have
a history of mental health issues.
Police say that he actually escaped from a different mental
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health facility and then tried breaking into a Palm Beach Gardens
police car.
A mental health patient who escaped from a local hospital has
been found.
Now, this is his picture here. Harris has been a patient at
AltaPointe since 2008. According to court documents, it says he
was placed under their care after being found not guilty by reason of
insanity for stabbing his father, John Harris, to death.
Now to our other top story, police catch an escaped mental
patient as we learned that a mistake by staff and a long-standing
security problem allowed him to get away. It also took a
day-and-a-half for the public to be notified that the potentially
dangerous escapee was on the run.
The patients have rights. They have rights to privacy.
He wasn't supposed to leave this mental health facility in
Sanford, but police officers say Samuel Badsen did, and then put a
woman through terror.
I've never really thought about, like, people escaping before.
I always assumed that they were more, like, protective than that
about, like, letting people out. Like, I didn't think it could happen.
Vega escaped custody about 8:00 this morning while being
transferred from the Elgin Mental Health Hospital to the Lake County
Courthouse in Waukegan where he's facing charges for allegedly
assaulting his girlfriend, fracturing her skull. He's also the subject of
federal warrants. While police warn residents that Vega could be
armed and dangerous, he apparently spent some time hiding in this
small basement entryway in the neighborhood.
They're in a secure facility and behind locked doors.
Until the doors are opened and they're let out to appreciate their
own civil rights while we're being put at risk.
(The video concluded.)
February 14, 2023
Page 180
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your next speaker is on Zoom,
Charles Whittington.
Mr. Whittington, you're being prompted to unmute yourself at
this time, if you'll do so. Mr. Whittington, you have three minutes,
sir.
MR. WHITTINGTON: Good afternoon, Chairman,
Commissioners. Can you hear me all right?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
MR. WHITTINGTON: Well, thank you for giving me the
opportunity to speak on this important issue. I'm here on behalf of
myself as a resident of Collier County. In order to not be repetitive
of those who have spoken before me, I will simply echo that as a
resident of Collier County for over 11 years, I support the David
Lawrence Center central receiving facility, and I urge you to approve
Items 9A and B. It is truly the right time and right location.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: And your next speaker is Joe Rego, also on
Zoom.
Joe, you're being prompted to unmute yourself at this time, if
you'll do so.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. I don't see Joe unmuting.
Joe Rego, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, sir.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. I'm going to -- I'll keep an eye on
Joe, but our final registered speaker, sir, is Collier County Sheriff
Kevin Rambosk.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm
not sure I'm really a registered speaker or just a request to come and
provide you information that many of you have been requesting prior
to the meeting.
February 14, 2023
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I think there's no question by anyone that has spoken with you
today that we continue to need services such as the David Lawrence
Center provides. Without them, I believe we are a less safe
community.
And we've made a significant investment over time to train your
deputies to recognize those in need of crisis and help, to get them to a
facility that can provide that assistance.
But one of the questions that I was asked or was posed to me
was, well, with violent offenders, does that mean that's who get
referred to the David Lawrence Center? And I would tell you, no,
that's not. A violent offender in confrontation is arrested for that
violence. That's not what -- that's not the type of person we would
refer to the David Lawrence Center.
The second question, I think, from -- and I'm not sure whether it
was you individually or collectively -- we had several with regard to
incidents around the existing David Lawrence Center. The first
thing I will tell you is that I've heard comments that have been made
here that I am going to make a request for our community deputies to
follow up on regarding situations that may or may not have been
reported, because one of the things that we did following the
presentation to the planning board was to go back -- and I actually sat
down, and we went through what residents raised as far as questions,
concerns, and recommendations. We took a look at -- the requested
period was five years. I know Ms. Bloch mentioned a couple of
cases that were beyond that time.
So what I can tell you is what has been researched thus far for
the five-year period relative to the types of calls for service. We
looked at 11 different types of calls for service, and it was everything
from burglary to trespassing to suspicious incidents. Anything that
would be relative to the type of call we might receive regarding the
David Lawrence Center, we looked at each of those five-year periods.
February 14, 2023
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We looked at it for 11 surrounding streets throughout the community.
We also looked at like neighborhoods with the number and types
of calls. And I can tell you that when looking at them, they're -- at
least with the data provided, it was not different than like other
neighborhoods in other parts of the community, and some of those
were particularly similar locations in the Estates area. So from that
perspective, we're not seeing a huge increase in types of calls in that
particular neighborhood.
We had a question of, well, could we provide more of a service?
And particularly that is, could we do more patrolling of the
neighborhoods? Yes, we could. As a matter of fact, we made
recommendations to the David Lawrence Center with regard to how
to improve safety/security of a facility, which we do with any
business that is in our community. We'll even do it at residential
homes as well.
So when we went and looked back at those, we provided
numbers. We went through, in that five-year period, 800 calls for
service on the 11 streets that I'd be happy to give you, but I'm trying
to move forward fairly quickly. But we know the
surrounding -- immediate surrounding streets and those to the north
of that area.
Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Can I -- I apologize, but
don't move quickly.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Because to me there's only
one issue here, and that's, are we about to create a hazard in an
existing neighborhood or make an existing problem worse. And so,
please, don't rush through that. I think this is -- we've been here all
day, and I think this is the issue.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, it's not the issue.
February 14, 2023
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SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Okay. So then if we take a look at the
areas we're talking about, we've looked at Santa Barbara Boulevard,
58th Street, 60th, 62nd, Golden Gate Parkway, German Woods, Bass
Point Court, Bathey Lane, Painted Leaf Lane, Copper Leaf Lane, and
Star Glass Lane, and we pulled all the calls for service. That doesn't
mean whether a report was done or a report was not done. This is a
CAD report that tells us how many calls and if a call was made in a
particular location.
We have each one of those calls for service. We've got the 800
printouts with us if we need to identify a particular instance or not.
And we are not finding in those reports over that five-year period of
time reported incidents that I've heard today that are causing concern
about security in the neighborhood. I'm not going to say -- and,
particularly, the residents here who have testified under oath, just like
we have to, I believe what they're telling us. I'm telling you that
there's no record or report or call for service on many of those
instances. There has not been an elopement in those five years.
So I guess I responded to the questions that we received from
you and other members to give you that information, to give you the
opportunity to ask us specifically more about what we found.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, do you
have a question?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have two questions for you.
One you are probably prepared to answer. I don't know about the
second.
But what was the radius when you were looking at the
similar -- similar geographic area with regard to the incidents? What
was the radius that was?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: We started with a quarter of a mile
area around the center itself, and then we just replicated a
quarter-mile area outside of that location, just --
February 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And those predominantly
were Golden Gate Estates --
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- areas both urban and rural?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: North of, and we actually created a
map, and we applied those calls throughout the map.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just so I -- and I -- so I
interpret it, you didn't visibly see an increase by moving that radius to
a different locale in the type and number of calls?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: No, we did not.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My second question -- my
second question is -- and forgive me for not knowing this. I didn't
look it up. What are we currently spending from a budgetary
standpoint on our jail; do you have that number?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: The daily operational costs or --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus/minus. I recall you
shared with me --
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yeah. Daily operational cost goes
anywhere from 140 to $180 per day. It just depends on the number
of inmates that are serviced.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I had 155 in my head per.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: You would be right, on average.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that's per inmate?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, okay. And your
average occupation at the -- at the jail is approximately how many?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Seven hundred twenty-five on average,
give or take.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Eight hundred is what I had.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sheriff Rambosk, I've got a
February 14, 2023
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question, and it might be sort of redundant, but I just want to get it
clear. On comparing these neighborhoods -- so you have this
neighborhood that lives right next door to the David Lawrence
Center, and they have X number of calls on average, like you said;
you researched it. And then you looked at like neighborhoods, but
they don't have a David Lawrence Center, and they have about the
same calls.
So what you're saying is your takeaway is, whether you have a
David Lawrence Center or not, plus or minus, you know, in the
algorithm, you don't see an anomaly. So there's not an excessive
amount of calls in the neighborhood that has the David Lawrence
Center in its backyard compared to other neighborhoods that have no
David Lawrence Center, but they have very similar calls with
homeless people and vagrants walking around, or they don't -- or they
have the same absence of calls. I mean, is that what I'm hearing?
Whether you have a David Lawrence Center in your backyard or not,
if you look at sort of, you know, an apples-to-apples type of
comparison, you don't see a spike in the David Lawrence Center
neighborhood. I mean, is that what I'm hearing?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: That's correct. That's what we were
asked to look at. And I would give you an example. Take a
restaurant/bar in the evening. If it's in a location that draws a lot of
problem, we can tell immediately that creates a nuisance. We build
a case to stop or remove that. We didn't see that in the reported
information that we had.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chair.
Good afternoon, Sheriff.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good afternoon.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, I come from the
public safety background, and I worked for you before I took on this
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job.
But correct me if I'm wrong, if I remember from our SOP is that
if we had a misdemeanor crime of nonviolence and somebody was,
you know, showing signs of suicidal tendencies and that, that we
would -- typically, they would go to David Lawrence Center in our
custody and be treated under a Baker Act, and then before they -- you
know, before they're released, we would be notified to bring them
back to the jail to service them for their first appearance and their
booking problems. But if it was a felony, regardless if it was a
felony crime, regardless if it was violent or not, they did not directly
go to David Lawrence Center even if they were showing signs of
suicidal, you know, conditions. They would go to the jail and be
treated there, correct?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: That is correct. And we have an
MOU with the David Lawrence Center to provide mental health
services inside the jail for those individuals who should not be
diverted.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And for the subjects that are
there under a nonviolent misdemeanor crime, they're not
released -- they're only released back to us, correct, or back to you, I
should say?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just -- obviously, you've
heard a lot of communication this afternoon concerning those types
of activities in that neighborhood. If this is approved, what can you
do to address the concerns of the folks in that neighborhood
concerning the existing problems that are there but the potential for
any enhanced problems?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Well, some of the recommendations
February 14, 2023
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that were made throughout the different steps we can certainly do. I
completely agree with trying to return individuals to their home, for
example, rather than wandering around. As we have in the
jail -- we've talked to the David Lawrence Center who has a checklist
of different things that have to be completed. One of those is
transportation. And, of course, we would want to make sure that
people were transported back to their home if possible or where they
were staying. If they are -- if they don't have a transportation plan,
that they notify the Sheriff's Office, the mental health unit, who can
then work with patrol to know that somebody has been released
without a transportation plan.
We would put together a special patrol that when we dropped
off a patient, we would then make it mandatory that the neighborhood
was patrolled each and every time thereby giving more attention to
the neighborhood.
But I think, more importantly, after hearing some of the things
that were raised today, I would suggest and recommend to you that
you require us to work with the David Lawrence Center to create a
security plan both for the facility itself and the transportation to and
from the center and provide specifics on how that's going to work.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: This may be a stupid
question, but I'll ask it anyway. We had somebody here from the St.
Matthew's House talking in support of this and indicating how they
work closely with the David Lawrence Center. I don't know if that
individual is still here. But the question is -- and it may be
something for both of you to address. But if you have someone who
is Baker Acted or someone who is picked up trespassing and
they're -- clearly they have an emotional problem or a mental
problem and they're the type of person that should be treated at a
receiving center like this, but let's assume that that person's homeless,
doesn't have a transportation plan, has nowhere to go, is there the
February 14, 2023
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potential for taking those people to a facility like St. Matthew's
House when they're released at least for a few days to get some
transition going as opposed to having someone with nowhere to go,
somebody that's homeless, being released into the neighborhood?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I think that is absolutely what we do
need. We've needed it for some time, some kind of a transition,
because without a transition plan, the potential is that we are going to
wind up with that individual back into our facility, at least if we had
them.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well -- and, again, the
gentleman from St. Matthew's House, maybe he needs to come up for
a second.
What I'm trying to understand is whether or not -- and you heard
what I said, obviously -- but trying to understand how do we deal
with people that are released from the David Lawrence Center that
are not going to be taken back to the jail for further processing and
have no -- really have nowhere to go. How do we deal with that?
MR. BROODER: Well, I'll say, Commissioner, that we
cooperate and coordinate with David Lawrence Center every day.
They do a psych evaluation many times on people that are referred to
David Lawrence Center, and then we take their recommendation for
the release. But I will say that the Naples shelter is full and has been
full for quite a while with a waitlist every day of about 120 people on
that waitlist. We are underway to try to increase the number of beds
that this board approved a year ago, but it's taken some time to get
through that. So hopefully we'll have 46 more beds by summer, but
that doesn't resolve the waitlist.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, this type of facility
won't be here for a couple years, if it's approved. So that would give
you time to expand, to add your additional beds.
So the question then becomes, is there something that you can
February 14, 2023
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work out with the Sheriff and with David Lawrence Center to take
care of that scenario? And I understand you're full --
MR. BROODER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- right now, but --
MR. BROODER: Well -- and I'll say, too, every day the
Sheriff's Office transports people to and from the Campbell Lodge,
which is the Naples shelter. Some go to the jail, some go to David
Lawrence Center. So there is a lot of cooperation and coordination
existing.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I guess -- Mr. Chairman
and Commissioners, I guess what I would be looking for, again, if
this is -- if this is approved. I'm not suggesting that it's going to be,
but -- because we'll find out pretty soon about that. But if it is
approved, then I want to make sure that there's additional security in
the neighborhood, and I want to make sure that people aren't just
walked out the door and into that neighborhood. I wouldn't want
that in my neighborhood. I wouldn't want it down the street from
my neighborhood.
So there's got to be some way, if we're going to go down this
path, that those people are moved somewhere where they can get
some additional services or at least get a place to sleep.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I would agree with that completely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. I'm not sure how
we work that into a document, but it's something for us to talk about.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a couple questions. Then
Commissioner McDaniel's on deck.
Steve, before you sit down.
MR. BROODER: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But just correct me if I'm wrong,
because I don't want to give a misconception here. I mean, I work
closely with your organization, as do other commissioners here, but
February 14, 2023
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especially through the Wounded Warriors of Collier County. And
you guys can't be the catch-all for everybody that gets discharged
from the David Lawrence Center.
Correct me if I'm wrong, when somebody's -- you know, when
we find homeless people in the woods during the -- just as we
recently did when I was part of the Wounded Warriors, you know,
homeless count, some of those people don't make the cut for -- even
if you had the beds, right? If they're -- if they fail a drug test, if
they're drug addicts. And I mean, some of the people that are
discharged from David Lawrence Center, if they don't have a home, I
mean, it's not as easy as just saying, like, even if you had the beds,
you'd take them, right? I mean, you-all have a filter, and there's
certain folks that you won't take that do get discharged from DLC,
but they fall through the crack because you're not -- even if you had
the beds, right? I mean, you're not a wide open door, correct?
MR. BROODER: That's true. We call our shelter a
high-barrier shelter, so we have an intake procedure, which is quite
rigorous. We don't take sex offenders. We have drug tests and
Breathalyzer nightly, so -- and rules that people must follow.
So, you're right, Commissioner, not everybody can enter,
because they don't agree to the rules and won't pass a Breathalyzer or
a drug test.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, just for
clarification.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What I was inquiring is what
to do with someone that first day when they are released from David
Lawrence Center. Right now it looks like they can just walk into the
neighborhood, and they have to be transported out of that
neighborhood. That's all I'm saying is -- not looking for a long-term
February 14, 2023
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solution for someone that's homeless, but at least a solution where
someone's not released into a neighborhood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But where would you -- where do
you release them?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, everything's a
neighborhood.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's why I asked him to
come forward, and the Sheriff. There's got to be a better way to do
that than to just let somebody walk out the front door that might be a
hazard in the neighborhood. And I don't know what that way would
be.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, part of that solution,
Sheriff, is as you said, if they have an address or a home, that maybe
a more aggressive approach would be to get them back to that. But
those that don't, St. Matthew's House isn't the automatic catchall.
Steve will confirm that.
So, I mean, this is an issue that maybe we're not going to resolve
it here, but this is a loose end. And what's happening is the ones that
don't have an address and they're not going to make the cut for St.
Matthew's House can actually walk right out the door of David
Lawrence Center.
Now, added to that, though, I'll say the Sheriff earlier just said,
hey, when we look at the Golden Gate Estates neighborhood that has
the David Lawrence Center in their backyard, they have about the
same number of calls as a whole bunch of other neighborhoods that
don't have a DLC in their backyard.
So, I mean, maybe -- you know, we're trying to find correlations
here, but I don't see any big, giant smoking gun, but I also don't see a
big answer. But I'll just table that one for a second. That one's
worth -- definitely worth discussion.
February 14, 2023
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I mean, I see a couple things here. Voting on the lot, is this the
right location or not? That's one thing. But a lot of great
information has come up that even if we weren't voting on the lot,
David Lawrence Center still exists in this neighborhood, and people
have raised concerns.
Sheriff, one of the things I was going to ask is, you know, when
I hear citizens, say, wow, you know, ambulances and sheriff vehicles
are, you know, rolling into David Lawrence Center at midnight with
their sirens blasting, why can't that be a policy that, when their -- you
know, if the suspect is in the back of the vehicle and is being detained
and is safe and everything, why do the sirens have to stay on, you
know, all the way to the front door? It might seem like a little thing,
but not if you -- not if you live, you know, 50 feet away. Is that
something that could be looked at, or is it a policy or a procedure for
protection purposes?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Well, it's not in our policy and
procedure. In fact, it's just the opposite, because that's what most
of -- clients and family of those with mental health crisis, they don't
want lights and sirens.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: They actually would like it better to
have it dealt more quietly, deescalated. And, you know, we -- we do
everything we can to deescalate before we do anything to transport
anywhere. I mean, that was the whole import of going to the
Memphis model 40-hour CIT training course so that you wouldn't fill
up the jail unnecessarily with people that needed mental health
services or who could be deescalated till they could get to their own
doctor or get the help that they need.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So regardless of our vote on the
lot, that's something that you can check into that maybe there's been a
drop of procedure by a few deputies that they -- you know, the -- but
February 14, 2023
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as you said and, you know, with a little bit of my background in
healthcare, even ambulances that would come to Physicians Regional
at times would -- you know, they'd use the sirens to get through
dangerous traffic, but as they got close to the hospital, if they had a
patient in the back that was skittish, they wouldn't -- so would that be
maybe something to check if the residents are saying they're hearing
sirens all night?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Regardless of where you go today,
that's one of the items on my list, because that should never happen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Not with a transport. If there is some
type of a medical emergency --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: -- obviously, you're going to get sirens.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, going down Golden Gate,
there could be an ambulance at midnight responding to a heart attack
five miles away, and it's not a David Lawrence Center, you know,
call, but -- so I'll just leave you with that and, obviously, you already
have that on your list.
Lastly, you know, I became a commissioner at the end of 2020,
so the one -- I think it was my first meeting, or maybe second
meeting when we voted on the site, and we got all of the engineering
details from Jacobs, I believe I remember you being here or a
representative from the Sheriff's Office, and all correct information
was presented here, but I remember questioning the Jacobs
Engineering representative quite deeply. I think we all did. And
what -- the takeaway that I got is their priority list had zero to do with
their healthcare knowledge, which was zero. It had zero to do with
their mental health knowledge, which was zero.
They were looking at if we had to build a widget and here's the
five different locations that we could do it, which one would be easier
February 14, 2023
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to zone? Which one would be able to shoehorn in? Could we put
this square peg in this round hole? And, you know, I remember the
representative from Jacobs, when we were talking about this
particular lot compared to the government center, he quickly sort of
backed up and said, we just looked at it from an engineering
standpoint.
And I do believe it was your testimony -- am I correct that -- do
you remember, sir, being here in 2021 when we had that discussion?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I know when the discussion was held,
because I was asked, did we need to have the facility immediately
adjacent to the jail --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: -- for services that we needed to have
provided, and I have been on the record from that point saying, no, it
doesn't need to be there for our operation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'll go as far as -- and I
don't want to put words in your mouth. And you're certainly not on
the spot, but we're just trying to sort of peel back the onion. I recall
hearing from you that it would be a negative, actually, having it right
across from the jail and the courthouse, and that if people were
walking from the jail to the new -- and it's not -- we're not expanding
the David Lawrence Center. This is a county facility, you know.
So some people are sort of misspeaking.
But if we had this county facility in this footprint of the
government center, that you and others came to the podium as well
saying, maybe engineering-wise it fit, but there was a bunch of
negatives. I mean, you know, I just -- I'm looking for you to sort of
repeat your recommendation that I remember hearing that you didn't
seem like you were as supportive of it being in the government
center. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I thought I
remember you echoed what a lot of other people said, that there was a
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lot of advantage to having the cohesion of this county facility on the
same footprint of the David Lawrence Center and that there hasn't
been an overabundance of sheriff response calls and things like that.
I was wondering if you can summarize maybe what you might
recall saying back in 2021.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yeah, I don't recall making that
statement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: But I can tell you the discussions that
have been had and the information provided to me was that having
this type of a facility on a government complex is not the best
location. That's what I was told. And, ergo, that's what I have
believed till this point.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
Okay. Commissioner McDaniel, and then, Commissioner Hall,
you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And my recollection of that
was correct. We were all told that there were -- not having the
facility on campus was more conducive for an expansion of the
facility. I didn't agree with that, but that's what we were told. And
your response was correct, it was -- you were asked whether or not it
was a benefit to you or not, and it was a neutral answer.
No matter how this goes today, come to us at our workshop next
week for our strategic plan, come to us and staff with the budget
amendment to enhance the security around the David Lawrence
Center today. No matter what goes on with this expansion of this
facility at this location or not, we've heard enough from the residents
and the neighbors that are there to at least give query to the thought
that that security plan needs to be enhanced. And you said it early in
your statements here. I have that as a note. So -- and it takes
money, and we'll appropriate the budget funding to be able to assist
February 14, 2023
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with that. So come to us with that, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I agree. I think regardless
of the lot decision -- and even if comparing like neighborhoods there
really wasn't an anomaly, they do have the David Lawrence Center in
their backyard, so it only takes one or two tries. So I think we want
to make sure that we're meeting or exceeding. And you -- I know
you agree, sir -- we're meeting or exceeding every possible safety
precaution, you know, for this particular neighborhood with the
current facility.
Here's what we're going to do. Commissioner Hall is lit up.
We're going to hear from Commissioner Hall. We have one other
person on Zoom. We're going to hear from that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I thought we were done with
the public hearing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, we got a person that we
couldn't connect with, and I want to make sure everybody's heard. I
tell you what, if you've got that person queued up.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. We can try it right now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's hear them, and then
Commissioner Hall, and then we'll break.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Rego, hopefully you've resolved your
issues. You're being prompted to unmute.
He's unmuted, and he's ready.
Go ahead, sir. You have three minutes.
MR. REGO: Good afternoon. My name is Joel Rego. I'm the
director of construction for the Diocese of Venice. The Diocese
purchased Tract 59 last month from the Parkway Community Church
of God. We were not notified of this hearing nor Parkway
Community Church of God's involvement with the DLC in any
fashion. As we just learned of this matter over the weekend, we
simply have not had sufficient time to fully understand the
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implications for our property with this application.
And, lastly, the records should be corrected to reflect Frank J.
Duane as bishop of the Diocese of Venice, a corporation sole, as
property owner, and to clarify, is not a part of this or any other
application pertaining to Tract 59. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
One of the things I'd written down are what -- you know, in
listening to the neighbors, it's their neighborhood, and so what can be
done about security enhancements? The security plan, I thought,
was a brilliant idea. I would love to see what a good plan would be.
The next question I have is maybe the fence will help.
Maybe -- is it possible for the David Lawrence Center to put cameras
in the back and for those cameras to be used as evidence for
trespassing? So in the case where the office never did see somebody
individually, maybe that -- can that be evidence? I don't know. I'm
just asking.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Well, we're supposed to make the
direct observation; however, we can take sworn statements, and the
video would be a part of the case. So I would submit it as a case,
yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: All right. That can be part of the
plan.
Another question I had written down was what's the possibility
of private security 24/7 at the David Lawrence Center? Whatever
we can do to make these people feel comfortable, even existing.
Whether the rezoning happens or whether it doesn't, it's still there,
and the issues have been there without the rezone, so...
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I would absolutely agree with you.
Nobody should be roaming around neighbors, period, unless you live
there; that's it.
February 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: So I agree with everything that's been
said relative to that. We will develop a plan on how we can address
that and do it correctly and professionally --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: -- regardless of where you go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're going to take a
break now till -- I'm going to say 4:50. It might seem like a few
extra minutes too long, but everybody's lining up for bathrooms. I'm
getting reports that we still have a very large room. So we'll come
back here at 4:50 promptly, and I think we're going to have questions.
We are going to call people forward now that we're done with public
comment. See you back at 4:50.
(A brief recess was had from 4:33 p.m. to 4:50 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Everybody, if you could
take your seats, please. We can get started or continued.
So, Mr. Miller, we've -- we have no more public speakers,
correct?
MR. MILLER: That is correct, sir. We've exhausted them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Yeah, they've exhausted
us.
Okay. So I think what -- I mean, I'll just take the lead here and
see what my colleagues think, but I'd like to bring back
Mr. Yovanovich and David Lawrence Center experts, because a lot's
been said. And everybody's going to get a chance to -- you know,
we're not going to sit here and have this big gigantic debate back and
forth. But both sides deserve the right to clarify some things to help
us make the right decision, because there's a lot of details that have
been sort of flying around here.
So, you know, Mr. Yovanovich, if you're the speaking
February 14, 2023
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representative for David Lawrence Center, which you are, I mean, the
floor is yours. I just want to give you, without -- without being over
expansive, comment on the things that you heard that maybe you
have a rebuttal to or clarification or whatever would help us.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Just a couple of clarifications. One,
the uses that we're requesting are already allowed under the
subdistrict. The only change was to go from getting it approved by
the conditional-use process or through the Planned Unit Development
process. So we're not asking for any new uses on the property
through this process.
So the speaker who said we're asking for new uses probably
doesn't understand the difference between the Growth Management
Plan and the rezone. I just wanted to clarify that for the record.
The notice -- the notices in 2007 were all properly noticed when
we were doing the subdistrict in the first place. If you all recall, you
would do a mailed notice to all properties within 500 feet. So if you
touched the property, you're within 500 feet, you would have gotten a
mailed notice. Also do an ad in the newspaper. And you also put
on the property those big plywood, they're like 5x8 signs that you
drive by every day. If you live anywhere near Golden Gate
Parkway, you would have seen those signs on the property, so -- and
that would have been both at the transmittal and the adoption hearing
for the Growth Management Plan.
Now, a couple of -- you haven't heard yet from your planning
staff, which they've obviously recommended approval and
determined that our use was compatible. And even at the Planning
Commission they said with the changes that we did -- because the
neighbors asked us to do a little taller wall. They said it was even
more compatible. And the changes that we made were good
enhancements at the Planning Commission.
Let's talk a little bit about security, because I think that was a
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major issue that happened at the Planning Commission and as well as
what was discussed today.
A lot of the discussion at the Planning Commission really didn't
have to do with the people who were there who were Baker Acted.
It really had to do with people who were coming there on a routinely
daily basis for their, you know, follow-up visits for -- you know,
for -- and we've made some significant changes on how we address
people who are leaving the center as far as making sure they have a
place to go and the like. So that was another thing that came up.
County staff said that they would have their own security,
because it's their building. You have security that routinely goes by
and checks out the property. So those were already commitments
made as part of the security process.
We have absolutely no objection to working with Sheriff
Rambosk on a security plan. We are happy to work with him, and
whatever he suggests we should do to make sure it's run better, we're
happy to do those things. We're happy to do the 24-hour,
7-days-a-week security that came up as part of this discussion.
We already have cameras. We'll put more cameras. If you
want us to put more cameras out there to, you know, protect the
perimeter and catch whoever may be allegedly jumping over what
will now be a 10-foot wall, we'll have cameras -- we'll have cameras
there, and that -- we'll keep that for the Sheriff if he needs it for
anything. Frankly, I think it helps us to show that it's not our people
that we're treating that are going back into the neighborhood and
doing -- and doing things that shouldn't be done in any neighborhood.
I think what was -- what was brought out by the Sheriff is,
unlike those horrible incidents that were shown to you in that video,
those types of people are not coming to the David Lawrence Center,
so the fears that somehow that horrible person who's a really bad
person is going to somehow get released from the David Lawrence
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Center into the neighborhood is not a fear that's factually driven and
based.
I wanted to hit on those major security-related points and kind of
the process and what we're asking for. The David Lawrence Center
has been here and a partner to this community in dealing with mental
health issues for a long time. They'll be here for a lot longer period
of time.
The uses that are occurring on that site will continue to occur
whether this building is located there or not. I think it would be a
mistake to not move forward with the building today on that site,
because I think that it's been proven to be a safe operation and not
any different in this neighborhood than any other neighborhood, and
with the enhancements we just talked about related to security, I
think, would be even better to hopefully put people's concerns at
ease.
And with that, we're here to answer any specific questions you
may have. I don't want to get into a kind of tit-for-tat. I just wanted
to talk about the major themes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I have a couple, and it concerns the
video. And I'm not here to critique it. It's very informative, and I
already told Ms. Hayes I thought she gave a great overview and
represented her side, you know, very well. It was, you know,
chronologically -- and we've met before, so I think we all sort of
knew the details, but to hear it all together.
But I also like to separate rumor from fact. I mean, the same
way that earlier when an accusation was made against a former
commissioner, we had immediately debunked that because it wasn't
true, and it was actually pretty, you know, disrespectful. And that
wasn't the case in the video, but I do want to give -- and maybe this is
a chance for Mr. Scott Burgess to come forward.
When he compared David Lawrence Center to facilities at
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Bradenton and Sarasota, and the video made it look like it was sort of
apples and oranges, I mean, I just want to be honest, my takeaway
was, I did see the similarities because I think the similarity -- and
there are some dissimilarities. It didn't have the woods. I get all
that.
And I don't want to put words in his mouth, but my takeaway of
the similarity was, wow, there's a residential community right across
the street, and they may not have trees to hide behind, but they all
have buildings and garages and they have -- you know, so, I mean, it
might not be apples to apples, but it's apples to, you know, oranges,
and they're both fruit.
I mean, my takeaway was, I think you weren't lying, but, you
know, I want to hear you not necessarily defend yourself but, I mean,
that was a bold statement. But when I watched the video, I thought
the takeaway was, these centers aren't buried out in the Sahara
Desert, you know, wrapped around redwood trees. I mean, they're in
areas where there's communities, regardless of who's got trees and
who has a golf course.
Could you expand upon what you meant by that?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. Thank you very much for the
opportunity to do so.
Yeah, I think you summarized my thought process pretty exactly
there. When we were in the NIM meeting and the question came up
as to whether or not central receiving facilities are in residential areas
compared to other types of areas, my mindset was a residential area is
an area, a neighborhood in which there are residences. And I wasn't
thinking necessarily estate woods. I was thinking about where there
are neighbors.
And, quite frankly, I was thinking quite a bit about where's the
density of neighbors. Where would this have the most impact on the
most potential neighbors? And I knew many of the central receiving
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facilities, as the video depicted, are in really high density types of
areas as well. That will affect or potentially impact a tremendous
amount of neighbors.
So when I was speaking, I was speaking specifically to facilities
being embedded within neighborhoods that had residents that were
near by.
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Burgess, before you go
away.
MR. BURGESS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you have an approximate
amount of what Collier County contributes to David Lawrence
Center on an annual basis to support your operations?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. The amount is somewhere in the
neighborhood of about $3 million, which includes, though, our
dollars, which are federal dollars, but it comes through the county.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So -- okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So it's federal dollars, three million
a year, that comes federal to county, and then we pass it on to DLC,
correct, more or less?
MR. BURGESS: A portion of that is county general revenue,
and a portion of that is federal passthrough.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Your comments about the
residential communities, I mean, I don't want to replow ground, but
one of the reasons why, in one of my first meetings, I didn't think the
government center was a perfect choice is there's plenty of residential
areas around here. I mean, I almost think -- I think all five options
we looked at, none of them were out in the desert. You know, they
were all going to be near something. And, you know, at times, I'm
sure Steve Brooder can say, you know, he probably hears from one or
February 14, 2023
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two citizens that they don't love that the St. Matthew's House is right
down the street, and we have apartment complexes and houses
everywhere. So that's why I wanted you to clarify your point that,
you know, it might not have been an exact match to what David
Lawrence Center has around it in the way of woods and things like
that, but it was residences.
MR. BURGESS: We've investigated all of the 10 central
receiving facilities in the state of Florida, and they are all by
residential homes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't know if the
commissioners have questions for anybody before we bring up the
county staff, Mike Bosi, and probably a couple of others.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One more quick question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Burgess.
MR. BURGESS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One more. Do you
have -- because I have -- I haven't seen the O&M for the new facility,
the budget for that. Has there been one done yet?
MR. BURGESS: Yeah. Well, we've been working on an
operating budget, and we literally have just kind of completed that,
so -- and it runs out about three years with a ramp-up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: If I might, just real quickly, regarding
apples-to-oranges comparison. What is on the visualizer is a central
receiving facility in Bradenton, and that is one of the -- if you look at
that neighborhood, it's pretty densely treed, if you will. So it is
similar to -- there are other areas where it's not just lots that don't
have any foliage on them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is the red square the central
receiving facility? Is that what I'm looking at? I should pull it up
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here. If I could see it a little bit closer.
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, it's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The whole blue, the entire blue
box?
MR. YOVANOVICH: The blue box is the central receiving
facility. So they do -- they run the gamut of where they're located
with similarities is what I just wanted to point out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, we can also bring you-all
back, unless the commissioners have a question.
Mr. Bosi, do you want to come forward? And I know that
we're going to have some questions from the staff to just hear why
you recommend approval, have other ideas, have other options. I
mean, the floor is yours.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, Chair.
Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
As the speaker had indicated, we had arrived upon a
recommendation of approval going into the Planning Commission.
That is traditionally how we provide a recommendation. We, within
our staff report, provide our staff's recommendation to the Planning
Commission based upon the specific design enhancements that were
contained within the PUD.
And I will state that the only change to the GMP, or to this case,
the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, is the allowance of this facility to
be developed through a PUD and not a conditional use. A
conditional use, you don't have as much flexibility within deviations
from some of our LDC standards. The height of a wall is a very
good example. They wanted a little bit higher wall to be a little bit
more of a deterrence.
So the design, the preserve at the rear of the property provided
additional buffering. The attention that they've had to how the
security system was going to be enhanced with their drop-off
February 14, 2023
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comparatively to existing operations, we felt that that was -- there
was compatibility built in within that.
At the Planning Commission, the Planning Commission didn't
find the same recommendation, but the Planning Commission -- the
applicant did -- and the staff, within your executive summary, was
supporting some additional measures of compatibility. And they
were specifically offered transportation for every person discharged.
And I think that was part of the discussion that the Board has had as
one of your main concerns.
Best reasonable efforts to prevent persons from being discharged
unless transported to a place of abode for the night. Again, the
discharge of the patients. The facility was putting additional
attention. What I heard today was even further additional attention
in terms of coordination with the Sheriff's Department, coordination
with St. Matthew's House in terms of how that discharge goes away.
And I also would say that the offer to not only have the 10-foot
wall on the eastern and northern property lines but be potentially
extending them to the church property as well as the existing David
Lawrence facility adds further enhancement to maybe some of the
issues that has been experienced in the past regarding some of the
trespass issues that have been stated by the -- by the neighborhood.
So for that -- for those reasons and some of the additional
considerations, staff is still maintaining its recommendation of
approval.
I will say that the uses that were adopted in 2007 were clearly
identified by the Growth Management Plan, and three of them were
specific facilities for David Lawrence facility. And it is consistent
with the Golden Gate Area Master Plan. It is a small subdistrict of
institutional uses. And if you look there's -- and I'll show you the
specific -- so if you look on the visualizer, there's four lots that were
included within the institution subdistrict, and the lot that we're
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talking about is 66. When they came in in 2007, all of these lots, 43,
58, and 59 were -- or I believe it's 59 -- were developed. So this was
the last of the parcels that weren't officially developed, and it was
designated as the institutional subdistrict.
So within this corridor, the Growth Management Plan has
always anticipated that nonresidential land uses were what was
appropriate per the Golden Gate Area Master Plan. And the
evidence of that, I think, is also suggested by -- that these aren't the
only institutional sub -- or the only institutional uses that have been
developed. There's a bridge center that's to the east that's
nonresidential. There is churches outside of this institutional
subdistrict that have been developed that are nonresidential, and there
are daycare facilities and schools that have been developed along this
parkway.
Now, I -- this isn't to detract away from the residents and the
residential perspective, but that's a six-lane divided highway.
There's a reason why so many institutional uses have been developed
there, because most people would say a six-lane divided highway is
not the most ideal for residential use. You can make it compatible
with some frontage roads, which we have done on the southern side,
but there is some challenges. And the land-use pattern does not
suggest one of all residential land uses. It's an eclectic mix of
institution and residential land use.
And from a compatibility standpoint, the design standards that
were -- that were proposed within the -- within the proposed PUD,
enhanced by the suggestions at the Planning Commission and further
advanced by the Board of County Commissioners, staff could find a
recommendation and maintains its recommendation to the Board of
County Commissioners for approval and compatibility.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Just a quick -- it was
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represented that -- and I think, you know, the representation probably
came because of the deficiencies that existed in the Golden Gate
Master Plan for a millennia, even when I became the commissioner.
Five hundred feet wouldn't touch but three or four people, 10 people
in this particular instance, 10 residences. And the representation of
not properly noticed back in '15 -- 2007, when it was actually -- when
the subject district was created, it was said that we didn't do the
proper notice. It wasn't done per -- per the existing GM -- or
existing LDC at that time.
MR. BOSI: Correct. It was done per the existing LDC, and
it's been augmented to a mile for everything -- for all land-use
petitions except variances. We've made a clarification on that.
Variances don't require a mile. But that was -- and that can be the
case, and I'm sure that has a reason to do with why the statement that
they feel like the notification was inadequate. Compared to today's
standard, it's a much reduced distribution.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have no more questions of
him.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anybody else?
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a quick question in
terms of if the petition is approved today, we've talked about different
security measures that may or may not be incorporated in a document
because we don't know what those security measures would be.
So I'd like for you to, in the next several minutes, come up with
some language that would provide that we -- that there's a condition
for enhanced security that the Board will be approving at a later date,
that would be a condition of this, or somehow -- some way to give us
that flexibility if we're going to move forward with it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Can I ask you a question? Obviously,
some of those things we can put in today, 24/7 security. You know,
February 14, 2023
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the fencing's already in there, things like that.
Obviously, a condition that we work with the Sheriff to come up
with a security plan. I think we can put that in there, and I don't
think it would be objectionable to report back to the Board what that
plan is. Does the Board want to usurp the Sheriff's
recommendations as to what would be an appropriate security plan
for -- to bring it back for approval, or should we provide just --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We may want to enhance
whatever he comes back with.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I mean, I think that we'd
want to have a look at it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I mean, I don't think the
Sheriff would object to us looking at it --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- and commenting on it and
suggesting changes.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I don't think we would have an issue
with working with the Sheriff and bringing back the plan, and we
could put that in the PUD.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would need some language
that gives us that ability --
MR. YOVANOVICH: And we'll --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- so that your client would
have to comply with whatever it is that we --
MR. YOVANOVICH: My client is -- in this case, it would be
the county and our client working together, because it's the county's
building. But I think, Commissioner Saunders, does the language
that it requires that a security plan be reviewed and approved by the
Sheriff and brought back to the Board of County Commissioners for
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approval be appropriate language?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Something that --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Or do you really want us to write it out
right now, or is that concept good enough --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If there's a motion and it
looks like it's going to be approved or if it's going to be approved, I
just want language that gives us that ability to make sure that we have
an adequate security plan in there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel and
Commissioner Kowal, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is your question for Zoning
and Planning? I'm going over into senior staff.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just wanted to address the
attorney, Rich, for a second.
Going off what Commissioner Saunders said -- and I think, you
know, I feel -- because this is going to be a different level of what
we're doing here. The building's going to have our name on it, not
David Lawrence. It's going to say "Collier" right on the front of it.
I saw it in the artist's rendition. So David Lawrence is going to have
the responsibility to separate it --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- if this does go through or if we
get to that point. And I do agree that definitely need something or,
at minimum, when the Sheriff does his survey and you guys get
together with this, it's important that we are protected, you know, and
the people -- the patients there are protected, and the people that are
under our care and custody that happen to be, you know, arrested and
brought there under a Baker Act, because they are our responsibility.
They're the county's responsibility, their safe being.
So -- and I would almost go a step further and say that you
would have some liaison on site that oversees this SOP or security
February 14, 2023
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operation that, you know, that can answer for it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Absolutely, absolutely. And we
talked -- we talked about we'll designate a David Lawrence Center
employee to be that -- I'll call it the security liaison with the Sheriff,
if that's the right language. I think that's the concept you're talking
about.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, sir.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was going to ask the
Chairman if I could make just a little bit of a clarification. I
understand that this is a county building, and your client is both of us,
but I'm talking about for the overall David Lawrence Center
operation, not just for --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Oh.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- what comes out of this.
The Sheriff's going to be working with you and David Lawrence
Center to come up with a security plan not just for this building but
for the overall operations of David Lawrence Center to improve the
conditions of the neighborhood, and that's what I want to make
sure --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'm with you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- we can hook onto this.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand. I understand what you're
saying now. I was focused on the building.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I mean, I would echo that.
I mean, we heard from concerned citizens that regardless of what we
decide on the lot, there's some definite things that can -- that need
some tightening. I mean, even something as easy as -- it might
sound like no big deal, but when I was talking about the sirens, you
know, if I lived in the Estates and, you know, they were bringing
somebody there at midnight and the sirens were blasting -- and even
February 14, 2023
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by the Sheriff's own admission, he said that's not normally our policy.
So, obviously, he wrote down a couple of homework assignments.
I want to see if my colleagues had a -- I'm going to throw
something out here. I want to get your comments. So a phone call
that did catch my attention was the new owners of the church call in,
and they say, wow, we just bought a church, and we didn't know
anything about anything that was happening here.
And, you know, one of the things we sort of usually say on this
side of the aisle is, you know, ignorance really isn't a defense. I
mean, initially, when I heard that call, I thought, wow, that's another
landowner there that is impacted. But, you know, as I sort of
thought about it during the break, wow, you bought a church, and -- I
mean, this is the biggest thing in the news, and you're acting like, you
know, you didn't know anything about it.
I mean, maybe -- you know, Commissioner Saunders, I don't
know if you have more detail than us since it's your district, but I just
was curious if anybody -- what you all thought about that phone call,
because his last statement was, wow, we'd need some time to sort of
digest this. It was something towards that effect. But then when I
thought about it during the break, I thought, you know, you buy a
church and you have a David Lawrence Center in the backyard, and
you don't know that there's something going on today and -- I
mean -- and maybe not. But does anybody have comment on that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Get him first and then me.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't have any additional
information or anything, but my reaction to that was, they bought a
church with this ongoing. They should have known. And I don't
think that really impacts our decision. I wouldn't delay things
because of that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. That's what I wanted to
hear. I thought the same thing after I thought about it for a bit.
February 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I feel the same way. I mean,
the church is new news. I'm certainly didn't -- wasn't aware -- I
certainly wasn't aware of it, and if there is a dispute, it's a civil action
that the diocese has with the seller of that church for coming up with
the information. They should have known.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. Yeah, okay. I didn't want
it to be sort of hidden. It was --
MR. BOSI: Chair?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't call -- we're done
with the public comment. I just --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: Under the direction of Ed Finn yesterday, I did
reach out to Pete Vasti. He's an attorney. He represents the
Diocese of Venice. I explained to him what was happening and
clarified to him that this was a use that was already established within
the institutional subdistrict of the Golden Gate Area Master Plan.
They were simply allowing it to go forward as a PUD. That's what
the GMP amendment was for. He took that under advisement and
said he would talk to his clients, and if they had any comments, they
would provide it and, obviously, that was what they provided, that
they still, you know, were kind of undecided.
But I just wanted to let you know we did reach out to them
under the direction of the County Manager's Office yesterday to
inform them of, you know, the hearing and invited them to participate
as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Question. Do you want me
to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Ed -- I'm good on the
zoning thing. When Mr. Finn is ready.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir. Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager.
February 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I -- you had a presentation
early on and you flashed up a screen that talked about different
pricing and expenses associated with this project.
MR. FINN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In total.
MR. FINN: Relative to the site that we've been discussing here
for most of the day, the construction cost estimate right now with
30 percent design is about 20 -- $29 million.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: About 29 million.
MR. FINN: -- for that site. The other scenarios that I provided
for you, or for the Board -- excuse me one second. There was two
scenarios that we had provided in addition. One scenario dealt with
the concept of moving it here on campus to the Building W site.
And what I had pointed out is that was likely to add 39 months to the
schedule with a total estimated cost of about $60 million, and that's
substantially more, in large part, because the operations in Building
W are going to need to be relocated somewhere, so that's built into
the cost, as is a slightly larger building in order to be able to achieve
the same goals without the collocation benefit of being adjacent to
the David Lawrence Center.
But the other alternative that I provided for you was more of a
greenfield site where we went out and we acquired a piece of land
and moved forward under that scenario, and the number that I
provided, truly, it's just an estimate, was about $41 million.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
MR. FINN: You're very welcome.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What else? Anything else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a motion? Some sort of
combination of things?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a couple of statements.
February 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, go
ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I -- there -- first of all,
for those who thought that I was voting in support of this project, you
have to read the whole transcript, not just how I voted. When we
voted in February last year to move forward on this site, we had a
long dialogue on this dais, and I actually have the transcript here
about questions. Sean Callahan talked to us about a prenup with the
operator. It had to be solidified. We talked about operating
expenses; talked about TPC, total project cost; talked about a myriad
of things; data, information.
Commissioner Solis had been bequeathed by the Board to speak
with other municipalities. And I guess maybe that's a question of
staff about whether or not the other municipalities that are
participatory in the sales tax money are going to contribute to the
expansion of a mental health facility in Collier County.
I don't feel like I've received enough information to support this
at this time. I don't think that the data that I've received can
make -- I don't feel comfortable in moving forward with this -- this
particular site. I didn't really concur with the thought process that
having it on the government site where I have public facilities for
transportation, where I have public facilities for a health department,
where I have public facilities for our court systems,
everything -- everything that revolves around the care of those that
are suffering from substance abuse or mental illness is located right
here on this piece of property.
And I -- I don't -- I still don't -- I still -- you -- Mr. Burgess, I
didn't mean to call you out but, I mean, you've said that you do have
an operating budget, but we haven't seen it. And I did go back in the
May vote and read the transcript where those same questions were
asked, and we discussed then about having that information, and we
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did move into a lease agreement, and that agreement has been
consummated. And the operating agreement's very loose knit. It
just says that David Lawrence is going to be responsible for that.
But to what extent is the county going to be obligated to offset those
operating expenses? It said it in that transcript that there was an
estimate of somewhere between 2 and $3 million.
So having said that, I'm still not happy with this particular site.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a question. I think this
would be for Mr. Bosi or maybe for someone else from the Manager's
Office.
I had heard -- and this may just be me making up stuff, because
that happens from time to time -- that there is -- there are other
funding sources for the operations of this type of receiving facility
and that if the facility is not in the right type of a neighborhood, that
there wouldn't be state funding available for that. I need to
understand if -- number one, did I just dream that and, number two,
what are the implications of that if that's correct?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Can I address that?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sure.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. One of the speakers that you
heard early on from the state who kind of manages all of this, she
provided testimony that should you collocate this facility at this
campus, you would not be eligible for state grants for operation of the
facility. So you didn't make it up. That, in fact, was testified to
and, yes, you would not be eligible for certain financing.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What would be the impact?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Funding.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If we decided to move it
over here to the government center, what would be the impact of
that?
February 14, 2023
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MR. YOVANOVICH: She said it would be millions. She
didn't give a specific number, but it would be multiple millions of
lack of finance -- funding.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Who was that that --
MR. YOVANOVICH: She spoke -- what was her exact name?
I'll have Mr. Burgess give you the exact name.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah.
MR. BURGESS: So that was Linda McKinnon. She
was -- she spoke from Central Florida Behavioral Health Network.
She represents the managing entity, which is the agent of the
Department of Children and Family Services. So she is the one that
has indicated in testimony here at the Board of County
Commissioners that they would not support providing grant funding
for a location that would be next to a jail or close to a jail because of
the stigma and because of what they're trying to combat.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What would that -- what
would that impact be on your budget to operate this facility?
MR. BURGESS: Currently, it would be about a $1.7 million
impact. And when --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Is that annual -- annual
impact or --
MR. BURGESS: It's nonrecurring, and we're working on
getting that into recurring right now. And as the bed capacity would
expand, that grant -- we're going to be pushing to get that grant to
expand. Ones that are of similar types of size, some of them receive
three million or more dollars annually.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, I
don't know if that changes your thinking process at all, but I thought
that was a point that needed to be brought up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me -- I'm going to say a couple
things. I know we're not voting on the government center. But I do
February 14, 2023
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recall exactly the brain cells I was burning when I didn't love the
government center.
And Commissioner McDaniel brought up some points about,
well, you know, everything's here. But we can always increase -- we
also own bus service. So if we want more bus service out to David
Lawrence Center, it's a 30-second meeting. You know, we change
bus routes all the time.
But one of the reasons why I didn't like it, and maybe a little bit
of that is, you know, being the former COO of Physicians Regional
and having dealt with some mental health issues, one of the things
you're trying to do is transition people out of the courthouse, away
from the jail. You're trying to get them off of this footprint. And
one of the things I liked -- and I'm not saying it made this
location -- that remains to be seen. But one of the things that made
the courthouse fall out for me quickly was the expert testimony of the
people that also agreed with that, but then also my own knowledge
of, wow, I think I like every other option except for the courthouse or
the government, you know, footprint because everything is a stone's
throw. And so the conveniences that maybe could be beefed up by
the David Lawrence Center are all things we control.
Like you say, well, you've got healthcare here. Well, that's one
of the reasons why the David Lawrence Center lot was favorable to
me is because the healthcare we're trying to get them is right there.
And I do remember the conversation about bus service and other
things. But I also remember the negative conversation that, you
know, you've got people looking out the window of the jail, and then
your health facility that's supposed to help them get better is, you
know, across the street. And, you know, the experts that came here
weren't saying that this lot was optimum, but, you know, it was more
of -- and some did, but I definitely agreed with them that the
government center fell out quickly for me that maybe from an
February 14, 2023
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engineering standpoint, you know, the square peg fit in that round
hole, but from a healing standpoint and all the other things, to me,
this was the worst location and the things that the other locations
were missing could be beefed up a bit more. So, you know, that
was --
And then also, too, I do recall the question about if you put it
here, what are the pros and the cons, and I remember there was a
financial impact. I couldn't remember the number, but I remember it
was more than 20 bucks, I mean -- and not that we make the decision
just -- you know, it's all a dollar figure type thing. People will point
fingers really quickly and just say -- you know, but part of the budget
to help people costs money. So, I mean, you can't do it for free.
Commissioner McDaniel, and then Commissioner Hall, you're
on deck.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just as a point of
clarification, it's -- you know, we got elected -- I got elected
and -- Commissioner Saunders and I got elected in '16. The need to
enhance our mental health facilities existed prior to us. We didn't
have a mental health plan back in 2016 when we got elected.
Commissioner Solis grabbed onto that deficit in our community
and brought together the leaders of the community in the support for
mental issues and developed the mental health plan. And it -- and I
supported that mental health plan wholeheartedly. It delineated
multiple locations for an expansion of the facility. It delineated the
need for our community and the size of our community.
And it's -- it's really important for folks to understand that this
doesn't have to do with David Lawrence Center and/or their
capacities or what they do for us. They've been an asset to our
community for as long as I've been here, in excess of 40 years.
Again, I'm sticking with the neighborhood with regard to the
compatibility and the residential uses in that area, and I'm -- not
February 14, 2023
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going to support the move.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand that the need for
mental health is now. The need for safety is now. And so based on
an effective enhanced security plan that's approved, I'll make a
motion to approve the rezoning.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: There are two items on the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And the Growth Management Plan.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So are we combining these, or
we're going to vote separately on each, on 9A and 9B?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Combine them; they're both the
same.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean, County Manager,
do you have a comment on -- make sure we're doing this right. So
we have a motion, but the motion's to accept the rezoning, and then
as Commissioner Hall clarified, based on several homework
assignments being done, is what I'm sort of summarizing that we've
said -- County Manager or County Attorney?
MS. PATTERSON: I'm looking at County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: We customarily do the motion on both
items.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So would that motion
cover both, what's in there?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion for the
rezone.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, could I make
a --
February 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- comment on the motion?
We have -- and I know that there's going to be some people in
this room that are going to be very unhappy, regardless of how this
turns out. Every now and then we have a decision to make that is
difficult. And I will tell you, this is probably the most difficult
decision I've been involved in in several years, because I am
concerned about the neighborhood.
But I think that the right decision is to move forward with this
project at that location as long as we get the security plan that gives
everybody a little more comfort. It's not going to eliminate the
problem. We have people that meander through all the
neighborhoods in the county, and so it's not going to eliminate the
problem. But I think we can take measures to make sure that it's not
a David Lawrence Center or a Collier County receiving facility
problem. And so I'm going to support the motion, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we have a motion and a
second. Any other questions or comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes 4-1.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. County Commissioner, we
are -- or County Manager, we now will clear the room for the folks
that were here for this issue, and we will move to...
February 14, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: We're going to Item 9C. While we're
clearing the room, there are a number of public speakers on this item
as well. I believe most of them remain here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's just stand by until we get the
room cleared and --
MS. PATTERSON: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I ask if you were here for this last
vote, please clear the room. We still have a lot of business to get to.
So if you're wearing a green or red shirt and you're done with this
one, please exit. Thank you very much.
Item #9C
ODINANCE 2023-15: THE BOARD CONSIDER ENACTING AN
ORDINANCE BANNING THE ESTABLISHMENT OR
LOCATION OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA TREATMENT
CENTER DISPENSING FACILITIES WITHIN
UNINCORPORATED COLLIER
COUNTY.
Okay. County Manager, let's move to 9C.
MS. PATTERSON: Item 9C is a recommendation that the
Board consider enacting an ordinance banning the establishment or
location of medical marijuana treatment center dispensing facilities
within unincorporated Collier County. This is at the Board's
direction. It's been advertised based on Board direction from the last
meeting. This is -- the County Attorney has prepared this item, and
we do have public speakers.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: I'm so sorry, sir. I was being -- I did not hear
what you were requesting. Are you ready for speakers?
February 14, 2023
Page 223
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We are.
MS. PATTERSON: Number of public speakers, Troy, please.
MR. MILLER: We have 17.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Big issue.
MR. MILLER: I'm told they're not all here, though.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, let's get started with
the first person who is here.
MR. MILLER: Harold J. Minch. Mr. Minch?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Harold's not here.
MR. MILLER: All right. Kathy Lowers -- Lowers. And
Kathy's been ceded three additional minutes from Maggie.
MS. van PARYS: But they're upstairs --
MR. MILLER: There's no one upstairs, ma'am.
MS. van PARYS: -- upstairs, fifth floor.
MR. MILLER: They're not up there now.
MS. LOWERS: I think Harold left, and he was going to come
back.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: But you had three additional minutes, correct,
ma'am?
MS. LOWERS: Yes, I do.
MR. MILLER: And the person that ceded them -- Maggie
yeah, she's here. I'm sorry. Go ahead, ma'am.
MS. LOWERS: Some of you know me from Southwest Florida
Christian, which is a coalition of Catholic and Protestants who work
on elections. And also -- and our main goal is to keep our area
family friendly. Some of you know me from Preserve Paradise,
which is a group of doctors, mental health advocates, and those who
work in addiction recovery, and we also want to keep Collier low
drug.
So I want to thank you for proposing a ban on these pot shops.
February 14, 2023
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You have the best-of-both-world compromise. People get it at their
home if they want to use it. And just a point of correction, they don't
get it mailed to them. They get it through courier, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Delivered.
MS. LOWERS: Because you can't mail it through the mail.
So -- but they all get it within 24 hours right to their doorstep.
And, also, we keep the pot shops out, because studies show that
youth will increase -- use will increase when there's pot shops and
billboards in an area.
I will say that I'm a mom of three teens and three kids in their
early 20s, and this to them is what big alcohol and big tobacco was to
our generation. So big marijuana is a multi-billion-dollar business
that has targeted our youth, and their business model is to get
everybody on the high THC. So a lot of baby boomers, especially,
think we're talking about the 1 to 3 percent THC that was available
when they were younger, but now we're up-to-100 percent THC.
I have gone undercover, and so has a lot of us in the drug-free
community, to these marijuana shops, and they sell all the
up-to-100 percent THC joints and vapes that are 80 percent, and all
kinds of dab, cramble -- crumble, shatter, all that was sold on the
street.
So I'm from -- I was born in Florida, but I did live through it in
California. In 1996, George Soros had had the first medical
marijuana ballot initiative, and he has supported every one since.
That is the loose ones. And he's supported the Florida one also
financially.
And what they do is they bring in these pot shops, they sell the
drug dealer pot up to 100 percent THC. You don't get -- because it's
illegal federally, there is not a prescription. It's a card
that's -- basically, you get a card to go shopping with.
And then next, they legalize it saying you have to regulate it like
February 14, 2023
Page 225
alcohol. But they saw in California in the summer, they couldn't
even put warning labels, and we've had this since 1996 in California.
We have massive homelessness that resulted. And 90 percent
of all the pot grown and sold in California is now done by the cartels.
Same with Massachusetts and other states that were early legalizers
in one form or another, because that is the model. The medical
marijuana kind of gets the customers for them. Then the cartels take
over. And what we have seen is just -- Seattle, Portland, San
Francisco. They're cesspools now. And we don't want that here.
We don't want the visible drug culture here.
And, you know, I'm a Christian, and Jesus said look at the fruit
of something. You have to look and examine these areas that have
had this and what they result in.
Okay. And I have no personal animus against Nick Garulay,
the pot lobbyist who's sitting over there with his staff. But the point
is, you guys have to protect our quality of life versus the profiteers.
We are the citizens. They're getting -- the people are getting it at
their house anyway. There's no reason to put those pot shops here.
And, you know, they are going to say we want the same rights
as pharmacies. First of all, it's illegal federally. Second of all, their
product by peer review study shows a very serious link to suicide,
psychosis, et cetera, a lot of death associated with that. Yes, you
can't sit there and overdose probably on THC; it's very hard. But the
death comes through other ways. Just like with cigarettes for the
prior generations, the death came through other ways.
And so we don't want this here. And I would just say that we
have record mental illness, record psychosis, record suicide. We
don't want to be Guinea pigs in this massive social experiment. And
the biggest reason is you don't have local control over these shops,
okay. And local control is how you maintain the culture of your
county, because you can't control the number of them. You can't
February 14, 2023
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control the products they sell. And all these people are profiteers.
They want to push this product out.
And in California, we have more pot shops than all the fast
foods combined. They're everywhere, okay. And it -- has things
gotten better there? No, they were worse.
So people move here because it's low crime and it's low drugs.
It's family friendly. And that's why I moved here. I remember
coming here from California saying to my husband, there's no pot
shops. There's no drug symbols everywhere. It's so amazing. It's
like a land lost in time. It's like small-town culture. I love it. And
that's why we came here. So many families feel like I do, so I just
want to thank you for doing that. And appreciate that. Thanks.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Leroy Chamnes. He will
be followed by Kendra Fox.
MR. CHAMNES: Good afternoon. Thank you for the
opportunity to come and speak to you.
The following data is from the National Institute of Drug Abuse
website. The National Institute of Drug Abuse is a federal research
initiative institute and the world's largest funder of biomedical
research on drug abuse and addiction. It is one of the 27 institutes
and centers that comprise the National Institute of Health and is a part
of the Department of -- U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services.
Listed on their website are these adverse consequences from
marijuana use. First consequences are called acute present during an
intoxication: Impaired short-term memory, impaired attention,
judgment, and other cognitive functions, impaired coordination and
balance, increased heart rate, anxiety and paranoia, psychosis.
Though uncommon, it can occur.
After that are listed the persistent or long -- lasting longer than
intoxication but may not be permanent. Impaired learning and
February 14, 2023
Page 227
coordination and sleep problems.
Finally, it lists long-term problems. Cumulative effects of
repeated use: Potential for marijuana addiction, impairments in
learning and memory and potential loss of IQ among individuals with
persistent marijuana use disorder who began using heavily during
adolescence, increased risk of chronic cough and bronchitis,
increased risk of other drug and alcohol disorders, increased risk of
schizophrenia and peaceable with genetic vulnerability. These are
often reported co-occurring symptoms/disorders with chronic
marijuana use; however, research has not yet determined whether
marijuana is causal or just associated with these mental problems.
One of the basic principles of economics is that which you
incentivize and make more available. You get more of it produced
and purchased and consumed in society.
If you approve this request for marijuana distribution, you will
get more of it on the streets and more of it consumed. Right along
with it, you will get an increase in the problems listed above.
I implore you to vote no on this proposal and to allow the easy
sale -- and not allow the easy sale and distribution of this harmful
substance in Collier County.
Today we sat through a long discussion of how to increase
mental health benefits. If we approve this, you would get a lot more
people needing that kind of care because that is one of the effects of
long-term marijuana use.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kendra Fox. She'll be
followed by Diane van Parys.
I don't see Kendra.
Diane, I know -- I think I see you -- yes. I did see you behind
her. Followed by Steven Brooder.
MS. van PARYS: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner LoCastro
February 14, 2023
Page 228
and all the commissioners. I am here representing Preserve
Paradise, and I want to thank you for the ban that you have
established that you are going to be voting on today.
The main thing is that you have said you want to preserve the
health, safety, and welfare of all citizens of Collier County, and this
ban will do that.
I want to give you some statistics, because it's important to
know. First of all, I have compassion and we all have compassion
for any one of the 32,000-plus card carrying members of medical
marijuana in Collier County. We have almost 800,000 card-carrying
members in the state of Florida. And we have compassion for that.
And as we've clarified earlier and we continue to clarify, delivery is
available to every single household card-carrying member, whether
it's a caregiver to receive it or the individual patient to receive it.
Delivery is available, and the delivery training is actually more
encompassing than the physician training of two hours, of which we
have over 40 medical doctors in Collier County that can issue the
cards.
And so that training is covered. The way that the medical
marijuana is dispensed, in a trunk, through a certain case, all of that is
clarified. And the state of Florida has complete control over that in
terms of the rules.
The other thing I wanted to mention is the Department of Health
has the official marijuana medical use, and they do a weekly report
on the medical marijuana. And I'm going to get to that in one
second. Let me just find it. They do a weekly report. And I can
tell you right now with our 800,000 card-carrying members, the
usage of milligrams of medical marijuana averages out to 326 MSGs
per week per person that has a card. So it's quite a lot. And it's also
controlled in terms of on the report every single week anybody that
has a card can see how much they've used. If police are going to
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pull over, they have access to that, and they're able to do it.
So we have compassion for those that use it, and we want the
ban to stay in Florida -- in Collier County to preserve paradise and
for the safety, welfare, and benefit of all of our citizens.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Steven Brooder, followed
by Erich Weimann.
MR. BROODER: Thank you, Commissioners. It's been a
long day. I'll be brief and try not to repeat anything. Again, I'm
Steve Brooder with St. Matthew's House. And I'm here today to
express our opposition to lifting the ban on medical -- on marijuana
dispensaries.
The DEA, as you probably know, classifies marijuana as a
Schedule 1 drug. That's the same as heroin, LSD, extasy. And the
DEA says it's likely to be abused and is lacking in medical value.
The FDA has only approved marijuana for treatment of two rare
and severe forms of epilepsy. The use of marijuana for other
conditions is not yet proven, and it's important to note that the FDA
does not oversee medical marijuana like it does other prescription
drugs.
It's my understanding that if a Florida county allows marijuana
dispensaries, they lose control. That means that you lose control
over the amount of THC in the product. You lose control over the
number of outlets; that wouldn't be capped. You lose control over
the marketing and advertising. And from first-hand testimonies, the
marijuana purchaser is not asked about any medical condition.
There's no blood test or other medical inquiry.
It's the THC in marijuana that produces the feeling that people,
when they smoke or consume marijuana, get. THC acts on specific
brain receptors. Marijuana overactivates the parts of the brain that
contain the highest number of these receptors.
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Today the average content of THC sold in marijuana that is
being dispensed is 14 to 16 percent. Years ago and decades ago it
was 2 or 3 percent. And we have some -- we've seen some products
contain 30 percent, as much as 80 percent. Some vaping, edibles,
gummies, wax can contain 10,000 THC.
Consuming high levels of THC put people at higher risk of
triggering psychotic episodes and becoming addicted, and you heard
the previous speaker talk about that.
Along with an addiction, cannabis use disorder is a real thing.
There's many side effects, including the altered states, psychosis,
impaired memory, and so on.
St. Matthew's House operates the only long-term residential
recovery program in Collier County, and we see in our intake process
about 80 percent of the people that come to our program for drug
recovery report using marijuana. That's the gateway drug.
Research shows that children living near marijuana dispensaries -- I
want to make sure I pointed this out -- are more likely to use
marijuana and drugs, and the density of these shops and the delivery
services was positively correlated with a frequency of child abuse and
neglect.
So with that, I, again, want to just urge you to not lift the ban on
these marijuana dispensaries. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Erich Weimann. He'll be
followed by -- geez -- I'm sorry. It's either Joy or Joe Maines.
MR. MAINES: Jon.
MR. MILLER: Okay. It's either Joy or Joe or Jon Maines.
MR. MAINES: My third-grade penmanship.
MR. WEIMANN: Hi. My name's Eric Weimann. I want to
thank you guys for passing this ban on the marijuana dispensaries.
This will greatly help, in my opinion, the important work that
Matthew's House does, and I would like to quote a few statistics.
February 14, 2023
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Child deaths. Marijuana is the number-one substance found in
caregivers involving the death of a child per state health records, in
Florida, Texas, and Arizona, far more than alcohol.
Statistic No. 2, suicide. Suicide is the number-one cause of
death for youths in age 10 to 18 in Colorado. The number-one
substance found in their toxicology reports are THC, not alcohol.
In 2017, the National Academy of Medicine issued a 468-page
research report entitled, "The Health Effects of Cannabis and
Cannabinoids." Their report is the gold standard of scientific
research and medical practice in the United States. The reports are
peer reviewed. The committee examined thousands of studies and
papers, careful not to overstate evidence in either direction.
To produce the cannabis report, 16 professors and doctors
worked with a staff of over 13 for more than a year. The key
finding, I will quote, there is substantial evidence of a statistical
association between cannabis use and the development of
schizophrenia and other psychosis with the highest risk
amongst -- highest risk among the most frequent users.
The current Colorado governor in 2021 signed a marijuana bill,
House Bill 1317. The key provision of the bill was the fund studies
on the research of marijuana's impact on mental health. Specifically,
to increase the understanding on how high potency, which is what
we're talking about here, high THC products, impacting the
developing brain. It's an interesting factoid, even though 65 percent
of the counties in Colorado opted out of this. There's more
dispensaries than there are Starbucks, McDonald's, and 7-Elevens
combined.
Lastly, in 1979, Keith Stroup, prominent marijuana advocate,
head of the National Organization for Reform Marijuana Laws in
1979, he said, quote, marijuana medical marijuana is the red herring
to help usher in legalized marijuana.
February 14, 2023
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Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jon Maines. He'll be
followed by Cathy Maines.
MR. MAINES: Before I get started, Sheriff Rambosk caught
me out in the hall and ask -- he said he submitted a letter. Can I read
it without using my time, or can somebody from --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why don't you just submit the
letter to the County Manager or to --
MR. MAINES: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And we can make copies of that
and give it to all the commissioners so we could have the original.
We haven't seen it.
MR. MAINES: My name's Jon Maines. I'm a Collier County
resident of 34 years. I'm a retired Naples police lieutenant. And I
wanted to give a shout-out to Sheriff Rambosk, Colonel Bloom for
the great job their team has done making Collier County one of the
safest, if not the safest county in the United States to live in.
And from there, I'll go to the city of Seattle. Veora Little, I
think, sent all of you a podcast or a documentary called "Seattle is
Dying." I'm going to summarize that real quickly and add a couple
of other comments, then I'll finish up.
Seattle passed medical-use marijuana in 1998, along with the
dispensaries, or State of Washington I should say. From 1998 to
2012, law enforcement took a gradually more hands-off approach
with enforcement of marijuana laws just for a variety of reasons, but
the first one that pops in my mind is because they probably couldn't
differentiate who had the right to it, who didn't have a right to it.
In 2012, the State of Washington passed recreational-use
marijuana. From 2012 to 2016, their homeless population shot up to
10,614 people, according to this documentary. And 100 percent of
those people that are living on the streets of Seattle in tents laying in
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amongst hypodermic needles, human waste, 100 percent of them are
addicted to drugs.
The City of Seattle spends roughly $1 billion a year dealing with
homelessness and drug addiction. So today it was very appropriate,
listening to the planning that you're looking at doing with the David
Lawrence Center and where you're going to wrestle to put it, and
we're talking 25 million. Imagine if you had to budget $1 billion,
because I can tell you, Naples, as you know, is a lot warmer in
January, February, and March than Seattle living on the street.
We're going to get all the people from Atlanta, Chicago, this side of
the Mississippi coming down to Florida, and a lot of them will come
to Naples.
From there, I would just share this: The amount of resources
that's going to be needed to deal with if we pass recreational use here
in a couple years is going to be -- we're not going to be able to handle
it. We're going to be just like Seattle.
And I was a police officer for over 20 years, and I can tell you,
the City of Naples used to be, I don't know if it still is, divided into
five geographic areas. If you had a call of a homeless person who
was on drugs up in, say, the Fresh Market in Parkshore, it would take
two officers in the northern part of the city to handle that.
Meanwhile, if somebody's having -- a baby's choking, somebody's
having a heart attack or a stroke, there's nobody to send except a guy
that's a lot further away, and there's a good chance that an outcome
isn't going to be good for that.
So I would just end on this saying, let's not snatch defeat out of
the jaws of victory here. We've got a great place to live. We don't
need 10,000 people being homeless on our streets and, if you do,
you're going to need 103 of those David Lawrence Centers.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kathy Maines. She'll be
February 14, 2023
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followed by Leonard Rutkowski. I hope I'm saying that right.
DR. RUTKOWSKI: On target.
MS. MAINES: Good evening. My name is Kathy Maines.
I've been a pharmacist for over 30 years here in Collier County.
How fitting it was today that the challenge of mental health was
discussed. One of the speakers for the newly proposed facility stated
that mental health needs have quadrupled. Wow, that's amazing.
But we do not need any increase in marijuana availability to add to
this problem in our area.
I actually wanted to come today because I wanted to thank you
and express my gratitude to the Board for the proposed ordinance for
banning the medical marijuana dispensaries. On behalf of myself
and Veora Little -- who could not be here. I know she spoke in front
of you before. She's a certified registered nurse anesthetist. It is
our mission to always act in the best interest of public health, safety,
and of welfare our community. We feel strongly that this vote
against the medical marijuana dispensaries will keep Collier County
beautiful and a desired vacation destination.
Again, thank you for preserving paradise.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Leonard Rutkowski.
He'll be followed by Josephine Canella-Krehl.
DR. RUTKOWSKI: Three minutes short, but good evening.
My -- I'm Leonard Rutkowski. I'm an M.D. My position here is as
a retired neurosurgeon who has an active DEA license for over 50
years.
With that information, it gives me significant volume of
experience and expertise. The combination, therefore, allows me a
unique perspective. My whole career was reduced -- was aimed at
reducing pain and suffering.
There are facts and reality that I will bring to the forum, all the
comments that will be defendable and verifiable with the medical
February 14, 2023
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literature and published verified statistics.
One, there is essentially no doctor-patient relationship. A paid
incentivized doctor answers a phone call and gets essential
minimal -- essentially, minimal information. This starts the process
to get a medical marijuana card.
There is no review of systems, which is a questioning of medical
information like cardiac, pulmonary, gastrointestinal history, along
with a surgical and allergy history, all important information
necessary to safely administer treatment. Without getting such
information would be considered malpractice across the whole
country.
These so-called doctors have sold their ethics for a few Roman
silver and gold coins. If calls are denied, I suspect that they would
not have a job the next day.
With Delta 8 now being sold in Collier County, there's a direct
approach to circumvent the situation to provide THC-type
treatment -- product to the public. This provides evidence that the
major motivation is money and greed. This product has a potential
to be more dangerous than true -- THC, and I have the information
here from the addiction group.
I have no qualms about CBD, but THC has now a significantly
higher -- potency is potentially, if not already, a dark path untested by
legitimate researchers.
Common misconceptions fostered by the marijuana cabal about
seizures, which has been addressed; I won't address that anymore.
Marijuana is not a gateway drug; another absolutely false statement.
Next, marijuana is innocuous. Teenage psychosis, again,
related by previous testifiers.
Marijuana has not killed anyone by virtue of an overdose. True
statement. Indirectly, though, car accidents and combination with
other drugs, cocaine, heroin, alcohol, et cetera, has been associated
February 14, 2023
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with deaths, period.
The fact that marijuana can treat cancer, HIV/AIDS, Crohn's,
and whatever, no such medical studies that I have ever seen prove
that -- only anecdotal reports. Anecdotal reports are not medical
evidence. Corruption in the scientific community, including
physicians along with the media, not only their drug -- not only doing
their due diligence and a significant influence of millions of dollars
and individuals whose main goal is to generate money and ignore the
overall greater good for society has led to this point.
I just had one more sentence.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Doc.
DR. RUTKOWSKI: My major motivation is to protect my
grandchild and to make aware to society the pitfalls of false and
exaggerated statements from individuals who say they are concerned
about patients' well-being but, in fact, are falsely compassionate. I
have no financial interest in marijuana at all.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Josephine Canella-Krehl.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She's not here.
MR. MILLER: She is not here.
Joe Alger?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. Nick Garulay. And Nick had some
time ceded. Jae Chipps?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: She's there.
Johanna Taylor?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She had to leave.
MR. MILLER: So, Nick, you'll have a total of six minutes.
MR. GARULAY: Where's the monitor?
MR. MILLER: The visualizer? You want to put your iPad
February 14, 2023
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under that; is that correct, sir?
MR. GARULAY: Would that be under here like this?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
MR. GARULAY: Deep breaths. Yeah, my name's Nick
Garulay, founder and CEO of My Florida Green. I've been
established in the medical marijuana space since November of 2016
when marijuana first passed. So I've been in it since the beginning.
I stood here and spoke before a couple of you back in '17 and listened
to a doctor who was the head of NCH at the time say that marijuana
has absolutely no medicinal benefits whatsoever. Boy, have we
evolved since then.
We have 35,000 patients on our platform, which is what I'm
showing you here. And in order to become certified, at least with
My Florida Green, you need to fill out a medical application, the
doctor needs to approve it, and you need to schedule.
So we document everything, and I do it on purpose for this type
of meeting. I'm hoping that I can actually -- okay, here we go. So
we document all the drugs -- the prescription drugs that people are
taking when they come in, and then we document all the prescription
drugs that people are able to reduce the need for, okay.
And we also track patient retention, and we also track patients'
satisfaction. We also track the age and demographic. Our most
prominent referral is other physicians. Physicians refer their patients
to us. Even the physicians that are practicing medical marijuana
here in Naples actually refer their patients to us, because they want to
make sure that they're properly educated. Education's a very big
thing for us.
By the way, debunking a couple of things. There's no such
thing as 100 percent THC products. That's absolutely nonsense.
They're not 100 percent at all. THC is a psychotropic part of the
plant and, yes, it does create a psychotropic effect, but there's also
February 14, 2023
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other cannabinoids of the plant that are extremely medicinal. CBD
is the most medicinal cannabinoid of the plant.
I heard a couple things -- and I'm going to try to talk fast so I
can get it all in -- which were a little disturbing. We talked about
how Collier County is wanting control. It's already out of control,
ladies and gentlemen. Every vape store, head shop, gas station,
liquor store, and kava bar are already selling THC infused products.
MS. LOWERS: You sell it, too.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hey, hey. Excuse me.
MR. GARULAY: Wow, that was a little disrespectful.
(Audience interruption.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, ma'am.
MR. GARULAY: Wow, that's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's totally uncalled for.
MR. GARULAY: Okay. Well, hopefully I could get a couple
more seconds added.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Nick, wait, wait. Stop for one
second.
Ma'am, you do that again, we're going to have you escorted out
of here. We're trying to keep it professional, okay.
MR. MILLER: The clock was paused.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
MR. GARULAY: Thank you. Wow.
So, yeah, my 15-year-old went into a kava bar here in Naples a
couple of months ago and actually bought a THC-infused products,
two drinks, THC-infused liquor and came home, and he was baked
out of his mind. I actually filed a police report with the Collier
County Sheriffs. I heard nothing about it. I totally roasted them on
social media and got a ton of blowback and negative review.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Garulay, you speak like I do,
fast, and Terri -- it's getting towards the end of the day here. So
February 14, 2023
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we've had a lot of speakers. Just slow down, and -- we want to hear
you.
MR. GARULAY: I'm sorry. I'm trying to get it all in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And we're going to let you get it
in.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. GARULAY: Sorry. So the cannabis products are
completely out of control right now. People are selling
un -- non-lab-tested products.
With medical dispensaries opening in Naples, what would
happen is they would sell lab-tested medical products for patients
who are suffering from debilitating conditions. And, yes, I do sell
products at my place. I sell products that I formulate personally and
they're manufactured for -- in a GMP lab, they are lab tested, and
they are specifically formulated for specific products. The
number-one product is for -- caters to sleep. I'm not sure if any of
you sleep well in this room, but I know there's many that don't.
A couple things -- a couple more things I want to show you here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think we have a
microphone, don't we?
MR. MILLER: There's a wireless microphone. You've got to
turn it on.
MR. GARULAY: All right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: While you're finding your spot
there, let me just ask you a question, just for clarification. I mean,
I've been to your --
MR. GARULAY: Testing, testing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've been to your business and, you
know, and spent several hours there watching the operation. What's
the difference between what -- so we haven't -- we don't have
dispensaries in Collier County except for one in my district which is
February 14, 2023
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on Marco, and Marco City Council passed that.
But what's -- since we have a ban on dispensaries here, what's
the difference between your product and what's in Lee County across
the line in an actual dispensary?
MR. GARULAY: Derived from hemp, sir. So hemp is a plant
similar to cannabis, but it yields higher CBD and lower THC where
cannabis will yield higher THC and lower CBD. Hemp is
actually -- Trump signed a bill into law in 2018 making all parts of
the plant legal, which actually creates a little bit of a loophole and
why you have all these little shops, pot shops, per se, that are already
open in Collier but they're, you know, selling chemically modified
THC products that are modified from hemp.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So none of your products in your
store are derived from the actual marijuana leaves?
MR. GARULAY: No, sir. That would be illegal.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's derived from hemp, but it still
has a THC component that comes out of hemp?
MR. GARULAY: Yes, sir, yes, sir, which is legal to sell.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, the reason I'm asking that
is -- well, I spent time in your store, so I remember those answers, but
so we're getting sort of conflicting --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I want to give you a chance to
clarify.
MR. GARULAY: What I also find interesting is we're
comparing the blue states, the poorly run blue states who passed
recreational marijuana. Look, we have 35,000 patients on our
platform. I do not support recreational marijuana. I want nothing to
do with recreational marijuana. I have documented incredible
miracles on a daily basis.
The data I'm going to show you right here, out of 35,000
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patients, the one in blue, okay -- this one doesn't really work. Okay.
Here we go.
The one in blue off to the left, out of 35,000 patients, almost
20,000 patients have gotten off of prescription medications using our
product, okay. That's 65 percent.
I put Xanax in here as an example. I built a drug database on
my platform. In the last seven months, 1,944 -- 1,944 patients have
gotten off of Xanax using our platform, all right.
We're changing the world. We're changing this community for
the better. We're getting people off of prescription drugs.
Forty-five percent of our patients get off of alcohol, all right.
Anybody ever -- anybody ever made a good decision drunk? I know
I haven't, right? Maybe you don't make a decision stoned, but
that's -- at least it wasn't a bad one.
All right. All right. How many people are -- and I'm not going
to -- I don't -- I don't want a show of hands -- and yes, I'll talk to you
guys. I'm sorry about talking to the room.
But how many people are taking medications they want to get
off of? How many people are taking medications with side effects
that they don't -- they don't welcome, right?
This is a natural alternative that's never killed anyone in history.
We've established that. All right. We've established this has never
killed anyone in history, all right.
Something else I want to show you all. Sorry if I'm a little
agitated. I've been sitting here since 8:30 in the morning, as you all,
have, too, so -- all right. Eighty-five percent of our patients have a
successful outcome by incorporating cannabis into their everyday
life. You can't stand up here and show me any data from a drug that
can yield that kind of result.
In the past since we --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just ask you a question for
February 14, 2023
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clarification.
MR. GARULAY: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So you said 85 percent of
your -- of your patients have had a positive result of cannabis
or -- right.
MR. GARULAY: To treat their debilitating condition.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what you're saying is, they
haven't -- all the stats that show the success isn't from the
non-marijuana product you sell?
MR. GARULAY: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You give them sort of an
alternative that's local here, but a large portion of your customer base
crosses the county line or goes to Marco and you measure --
MR. GARULAY: Most of them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- and you add that to you metrics?
MR. GARULAY: No, no all this data --
THE COURT REPORTER: Sir, excuse me. I can only get
one person at a time.
MR. GARULAY: Sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Wait. Just let me finish.
So -- well, I think you heard my question, so I won't repeat it. So I'll
let you answer. Go ahead.
MR. GARULAY: The data that I'm showing you is for medical
marijuana patients. I'm sorry. I should have clarified that at the
beginning. This has nothing to do with my product.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And that's not what you sell. So
you're educating us here on medical marijuana, not --
MR. GARULAY: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I guess my question is, if your
product in your non-dispensary store has so much positive result and
you don't want to be in the recreational marijuana business, but
February 14, 2023
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maybe you want to be in the medical marijuana business -- but if
you're having so much success in your non-dispensary store, then
why are you on the side of wanting more dispensaries in Collier
County?
MR. GARULAY: I think we're crossing. We're crossing.
The woman that screamed out, you know, is sort of a whole different
tangent that they shouldn't have gone down.
We facilitate the medical marijuana certification for both the
patient and the doctor. A doctor works with us full time. There's
32,000 patients in Collier County, right? We've done 22,000 of
them, all right. So that's two-thirds of the market, all right. We
have the market here.
I have no financial benefit if a dispensary opens up in Collier
County. The only reason why I stand here is to correct ignorant
statements that are being stated. That's really it. I have no
motivation other than our patients who work hard to live here in
Collier County deserve to have access in the county that they --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You helped 22,000 patients get
medical marijuana cards that cross the county line to get it or they go
to Marco, but then they also still frequent your store because you also
sell a product that helps them?
MR. GARULAY: They have to see us every seven months per
state law, every 210 days. They have to see the doctor every seven
months to document their --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And a lot of them don't buy
product from you because they need the medical marijuana so --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- they cross, but you help --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. GARULAY: Yeah, we offer CBD.
Look, I can show you -- look, what -- with the stat that's up here,
February 14, 2023
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here's 3,400 patients who have gotten off of benzos. That's
26 -- that's 2,600 roughly that have gotten off of opioids, all right.
These are our patients on the My Florida Green platform that have
reported they've gotten off of opioids and gotten off of benzos. I
have tons of other stats I can show you. Again, there's 85 percent
success ratio.
Most people are complaining from sleep, right? We have an
85 percent success ratio of people sleeping better, lowering their
anxiety, you know, improving their quality of life.
So I don't want to sit here and listen to marijuana be bastardized
by all this data that people are pulling off of Google or NCBI.gov,
which we've all discussed all day today, which is corrupt data, right?
I'm showing you real data.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can you summarize, because we're
well over -- and I ate up some of that time, but --
MR. GARULAY: No problem, and I appreciate it.
And, look, out of the 22,000 patients, 3,000 of them are
veterans. We charge veterans once and never again. We give law
enforcement 50 percent off, right? Much respect. Thank you for
your service, Mr. Kowal and Mr. LoCastro. Thank you for all you
guys' service. Any of you who want to come into my store and see
this data, any of you want to talk in the parking lot --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Talking to us. Talking to us.
Talking to us.
MR. GARULAY: Anybody wants to talk come to our store,
talk to us in the parking lot, in the hallway and not be confrontational,
I'll show you all this data. It's real. This is actual data, not some
nonsense that's pulled from, you know, the Internet.
And, again, we kind of jumped around here. I didn't get to say
all the things that I wanted to, but I know the decision's already made,
right? I know you guys aren't going to allow a dispensary to open up
February 14, 2023
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in Collier. I get it. But some of this data -- some of these things
that are being presented are completely ignorant. They make
absolutely no sense, and it's very disheartening for all the work that
I've put in. I've spent $1.6 million of my own money building this
platform and this company, all right, and it's to change the world.
It's to help these people who are suffering from debilitating
conditions. So I'll leave it at that.
Any of you need help, MyFloridaGreen.com, click on "get
started."
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your final registered speaker on this
item is Chad Taylor.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. TAYLOR: Good evening, Commissioners.
You know, I sit here today and I find it ironic that, you know,
earlier this morning we used such strong words in favor of medical
freedom, so much so that we returned CDC money -- and thank you
all for doing that -- yet we stand here today talking about a permanent
ban on medical marijuana dispensaries. It just doesn't add up.
So my name is Chad Taylor. I'm a veteran of the United States
Marine Corps. I'm the general manager at My Florida Green, and
I've been a patient there about the last three years.
Now, it was the unconstitutional vaccine mandates
that -- perpetuated by the CDC that drove me to leave a
16-year-career and into medical marijuana. Now, the stress of my
situation significantly impacted my sleep, among other things.
Now, to be clear, I've been alcohol free for nearly eight years,
and drinking again was not going to be an option for me. Now, my
doctor at the time, within a quick less-than-two-minute appointment,
immediately prescribed Xanax and Lexapro.
Now, I quickly learned after that that both of those medications
have nearly two dozen side effects, things that I wouldn't even give to
February 14, 2023
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an enemy.
Now, when I returned -- when I turned to medical marijuana,
and I got properly educated at My Florida Green, I have to say it was
complete game changer for me. I sleep like a baby now. My
anxiety's next to zero, and I have zero desire to return to alcohol.
How we can call this a gateway drug is beyond my intelligence.
Now, people turn to medical marijuana when synthetic
pharmaceuticals have failed them -- we have to understand that -- or,
worse yet, makes their condition worse. Now, I've personally seen
the relief on hundreds of patients myself.
Now, respectfully, I'd like to ask the commissioners to imagine a
scenario where the tables are turned. Imagine a loved one who's
suffering from a debilitating condition and the only relief they get is
from medical marijuana. Now, maybe they suffer from
sleeplessness because of trauma. Maybe it's they shake
uncontrollably from Parkinson's, or they have horrible side effects
from chemotherapy. Maybe they have chronic pain from a
devastating injury, okay.
Now imagine that I tell your loved one they can drive an extra
40 miles or 40 minutes to their dispensary to get the relief that they
need. It's just a minor inconvenience. It doesn't feel so good, does
it? Now, that's exactly what we're doing to tens of thousands of
patients right here in Naples.
Now, despite the misconceptions that are spread about medical
marijuana deliveries, they are not within 24 hours, I can promise you
that. Now, by creating these extra barriers, this is what's going to
happen. People are going to self-medicate. They're going to do it
with alcohol, they're going to do it with pills, and then, worse yet,
they're going to turn to street drugs which are filled with fentanyl.
None of those roads lead to good places.
Now, in the U.S. alone, 104,000 deaths occur per year due to
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alcohol. Over 68,000 deaths occur per year due to opioids. Over
110,000 deaths occur per year due to fentanyl overdoses. Zero
people have ever died from a marijuana overdose, ever, in the history
of mankind.
Now, in the middle of an opioid epidemic and a fentanyl crisis,
we have to ask ourselves, do you want that kind of blood on your
hands?
Now, an expression we live by in the Marine Corps is semper
fidelis. That means always faithful. And I can promise you
standing here right now, I will always, as a general manager of My
Florida Green and as a marine, I will always stay faithful to our
patients right here in Naples.
Thank you for your time, and I really hope that you can
reconsider getting access --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So a question I have for you.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The success that you've gotten
over anxiety and sleep and things like that, is that 100 percent from
things that you're buying at Florida Green, or you're having to cross
county lines or go to Marco as well?
MR. TAYLOR: So to give you a little context, I live a very
holistic lifestyle. And, again, I did leave a 16-year career over the
vaccine mandates because of that. I'm 45 years old. I can do more
pullups than I could do at 18 years old in the Marine Corps at boot
camp, okay. So that's just a little context of my health and how I
manage my health. And, absolutely, I can tell you I did not go into
Xanax or Lexapro to relieve my condition. I turned to medical
marijuana, and I got properly educated on it and, absolutely, it
100 percent helps me sleep, it brings down my anxiety significantly,
and it helps me live a more quality life.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So in your particular case, you're
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using product at Florida Green, but then you're also having to cross
either the county line or go to Marco, correct?
MR. TAYLOR: I do, and it's highly -- it's more than
inconvenient, quite frankly.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Why don't you have it delivered?
MR. TAYLOR: Delivery, it takes more than 24 hours. And
also, if you're a working person, they give you -- typically you get
about a 12-hour window. So I don't -- I can't do that. I have two
kids. One of them is -- has autism. I'm a very busy guy, and that's
just not something I can do. I literally have to drive when I need my
product.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And you bring up a
good point. I just, you know -- and I just want to say, one of the
downsides to the proposition of this ban -- and it's been mentioned
here several times, continuing the ban. We've had a de facto ban.
We have never voted. This commission has never voted to ban the
dispensaries nor have we been able to secure the votes to allow the
dispensaries. So we've been in a de facto ban, and that's where I'm
hanging with regard to this circumstance.
One of the downsides to the ban is there will be -- people will
self-medicate. There will be an increase in illegal use of
consumption of marijuana, and we have a terrible issue going on in
our community with fentanyl being laced with these street drugs.
What is the percentage chance of fentanyl ending up in a
product that is manufactured -- and I know you can't speak for other
medical marijuana/medical cannabis facilities. I'm asking him.
What's the opportunity for fentanyl ending up in a product that's put
forth by any of these dispensaries, specifically? You can't really
speak for the others.
MR. TAYLOR: Those are medical lab-tested products.
February 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Basically, it's zero.
MR. TAYLOR: It sounds pretty zero to me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It is a highly controlled
substance. The medical cannabis is controlled by its construction
manufacturer of, by the State of Florida, and there is no opportunity
for the other elicits to be added into it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Here's why I just slightly disagree
with that. If I'm a person -- and I know people that are getting
results from medical marijuana, so -- but we're not here to argue to be
doctors and decide if medical marijuana is, you know, effective or
not.
But if I'm somebody that believes it's effective and I have some
serious issues, and it helps me in an exponential way, we're not
keeping them from getting it. And I think if I have something that's
a miracle drug, driving 40 minutes or less in most cases to either
Marco or across the county line -- you know, I don't have to do it
every day. I can get enough of a quantity to get it.
And so, you know, I've been, you know, on record of saying, we
have the same amount of dispensaries in Collier County as we do
Trader Joe's and Wholefoods, one. There's one on Marco, a
dispensary on Marco, which I didn't vote for. They're a
municipality, so the City Council voted. And I spent a half a day in
that dispensary getting an education on how many people travel from
all over Collier County. But most of them tell me they don't have to
go there very often. They get enough of a supply. And it's -- and I
misspoke. It's not mailed. It's delivered, because a lot of those
people were older and they don't have a job, you know, like you so
for them it's a convenience.
But I just think if I have an ailment and medical marijuana is
helping me, you know, that much, I don't know that there needs to be
one on every corner.
February 14, 2023
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And so, you know, I just -- I feel like we've got the one in
Marco. We've got 30-plus on the other side of the line. And people
drive for two hours, like I said, to get a $3 bottle of wine at Trader
Joe's. I think if I'm taking something that solves serious pain or
helps me sleep, I'll drive that far, you know, to get, you know, relief.
And then, of course, my Florida Green provides legal options that
aren't medical marijuana, like you said, Nick, and your business is
booming. I mean, I've been there.
So, you know, that's my -- you have -- yeah, I'd love to hear
your comment.
MR. TAYLOR: I completely appreciate that, Commissioner.
But with all due respect, you're not folding up a wheelchair and
putting it in your car. You're not shaking uncontrollably from
Parkinson. You're not suffering from chemotherapy, you know, side
effects.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So you need one on every corner
so somebody can walk to it or, you know?
MR. TAYLOR: I'm not saying how many we need. I'm
saying that our patients that are suffering from debilitating conditions
need access to it. And to -- and by putting up more barriers like
making them -- making debilitating people drive another 40 minutes
is unjust. And all of the conjecture we continue to hear about all of
the crime and all the bad things that are going to happen, well, that's
not happening. In fact, in the planning commissioner meeting, those
stats were shared, and crime does not go up in areas like that. That's
complete conjecture.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And that's what I wanted -- I
wasn't trying to attack you with that question. I actually wanted to
hear your honest answer to that, and I appreciate it.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you. Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, and then,
February 14, 2023
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Commissioner McDaniel, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I know Nick. You know, I don't -- we're not real close, but I
know Nick, and I know he believes in what he does, and he -- and,
you know, and in the products he produces. And he -- you know, he
talks about how he helps, you know, the people out there with their
addictions. And, you know -- and I think guys like you, you know,
Nick and Chad, I think you guys have this -- you know, it's coming
from your heart and you believe in what you're doing and the
importance of it.
But I think you've got to understand, we have to safeguard this
community to a point where it might not be you guys putting these
medical marijuana dispensaries on every corner -- and by statute, if
we let it happen, anywhere there's a pharmacy, they can put a medical
marijuana dispensary in this county in an incorporated area.
So imagine how many Walgreens and CVSs we have. So that
can pop up. And it may not be great guys like you putting them up.
It may be the ones that are just trying to do it because they know
down the road there's a chance that Florida may get recreational
marijuana. And by default, once they have their brick and mortar
store, they will be the dispenser of recreational marijuana.
So at that point we have to look at the makeup of this county and
what we want or don't want, and that's the important thing. It's not
the fact that we want to harm anybody that, you know, medically this
can help.
I get it. It does help, and there are people that have
prescriptions and use it for legitimate reasons. And I think -- and the
people in the audience have to understand. I understand the farm bill
back in 2018, the loopholes with the cannabis, to hemp, and the hemp
allowed to farm bill to -- you sell products made from hemp. And
we do see Delta 8, which I think somebody mentioned before. Delta
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8 is a synthetic altercation [sic] of Delta 9. Delta is the THC.
MR. GARULAY: Not synthetic.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, it's an altered version of
the hemp plant that creates THC in it.
MR. GARULAY: Chemically compounded, but it is THC.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. But that is -- but people
can sell that because the farm bill allows it. Yes, I understand that.
Understand that.
I'm just -- I'm saying, the people might not understand that, you
know, it's 21 different animals, you know. Delta 9 is what the
medical marijuana is received from, and that is under the schedule as
the federal government recognizes it as a Schedule 1 drug, which is
basically a narcotic that doesn't have any medical use, in their eyes.
But this is what we have to protect against. And I think it's -- I
get it, but I don't know who's going to be the next guy to open this
brick and mortar store in our county. If it's you guys, I get it. I can
trust that, you know, and you'll do what's right, but the 500 other
people with the big pockets that sees Florida now as another market
or sees Collier County, we would lose control over that. And this is
about the only tool we have to control that here.
And I campaigned for a year and a half to get this position, and
not once did I have anybody approach me and say, you know, Dan,
when you become commissioner, I've always had a hard time getting
my medical marijuana. Can you, like, look into this? Not once.
Did people tell me we need workforce housing? Every day.
People tell me we need, you know, more roads because it's traffic
congestion? Every day. I never had a doctor come up to me and
say, Dan -- I've never had a person say that my patient has a hard
time getting medical marijuana in this county.
MR. GARULAY: You're a former police officer.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right, Nick. Okay.
February 14, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're not allowed to yell.
MR. GARULAY: That wasn't yelling.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, you've
got -- Commissioner Kowal has the floor. The commissioner has the
floor.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: All right. What I was saying is
that I think this is the only tool we really have to safeguard the
unknown, and that's why I support it. And I just wanted to make
sure you guys understand that.
MR. TAYLOR: Can I ask a quick question in regards to your
statement, Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wait a second. Let me just bring
this back to center. Your three minutes are up, so it's not an
exchange back and forth. If he wants to ask you something -- but I
would like our County Manager to read the Sheriff's letter so we can
get that into the record, and then our break would have been at 6:20,
so we're starting to get -- drifting a little bit at a time. I only have
one commissioner lit up, Commissioner McDaniel. So let's read this
short letter, we'll go to Commissioner McDaniel, and then we're
going to break.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Take a vote.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, or -- unless somebody else
is lit up here. But let's hear the -- let's get the letter in the record.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. This letter dated December 15th,
2022, is a statement regarding medical marijuana dispensaries. As
Sheriff of Collier County, I do not support allowing medical
marijuana dispensaries in Collier County. I am deeply concerned
about the negative impacts that additional dispensaries could have on
the safety of our community and cannot support jeopardizing our
standing as the safest metropolitan county in Florida.
Sincerely, Kevin J. Rambosk, Sheriff.
February 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And I'm going to say
this out loud. I'm going to support the motion for the ban. I have
enormous mixed feelings with regard to both sides of the equation. I
have personal friends that have benefited from the consumption of
medical cannabis because of their being able to get away from
prescription drugs and the terrible negativities that transpire with that.
On the other side of it, I have other friends that consumption of
cannabis marijuana has led them to places unknown.
Chad was correct, Commissioner LoCastro, in his comment that,
you know, we're perceiving this from our perspective -- our capacity
of mobility and ability to get around and do what we do all day every
day.
There are -- and we -- and on your thought process, as was with
some of my other colleagues, our other colleagues, was that, you
know, we're not prohibiting people from being able to get cannabis
because it can be delivered, but the delivery standards are very
onerous. You know, Chad spoke about being -- having a family and
work, and they won't mail your cannabis to you. They won't leave it
in your mailbox. You have to be standing there at the door in that
12-hour window in order to, in fact, receive it, so...
But you are not incorrect in your comments with regard to
the -- if it is important, you'll make adjustments. People can and are
making adjustments to do it.
So my main reason for supporting the ban is not because I'm in
support of the ban. It's because Collier County has been outside my
perception of the constitution of the State of Florida. We were
relegated to do one of two things -- either allow them -- they won't be
on every corner, because there is statutory regulations with regard to
where they can and can't be, but we are not allowed to limit the
amount of them, numbers-wise, or ban them. We had to do one of
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those two things, and we never did either of those, which was why I
started last year to bring forward the ordinance to allow them again.
But I'm -- I want this county to be in conformity with the statute and
the constitution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So that's why I'm supporting
it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I make a motion to ban the
ordinance or to approve the ordinance banning the medical marijuana
dispensaries.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second that,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, Commissioner McDaniel, did
you make the actual motion, or -- I mean, it sounded like you were
sort of making one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I was -- I said --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we have a motion from
Commissioner Hall. It's seconded by Commissioner Saunders.
All in favor of enacting an ordinance banning the establishment
or location of medical marijuana treatment center dispensaries, say
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Those opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
February 14, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll take a break. We will
come back at 6:40.
(A brief recess was had from 6:30 p.m. to 6:40 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll go ahead and get
started a --
MS. PATTERSON: You have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- minute early, but I know we've
got everybody here. So we are moving to 10B.
Item #10B
DIRECT STAFF TO PREPARE, UNDERGO THE PUBLIC
PROCESS, AND BRING TO THE BOARD A PROPOSED
AMENDMENT TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO
ALLOW GUESTHOUSES IN THE URBAN GOLDEN GATE
ESTATES TO BE RENTED TO ANYONE – CONSENSUS
MS. PATTERSON: Item 10B is a recommendation to direct
staff to prepare, undergo the public process, and bring to the Board a
proposed amendment to the Land Development Code to allow
guesthouses in the Urban Golden Gate Estates to be rented to anyone.
This item is sponsored by Commissioner McDaniel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There I am.
This is pretty simple. I've talked about this for a long time, and
having a supply and demand is one of the short answers to housing
affordability. We have a Land Development Code in Golden Gate.
We were successful in amending that, I think, in 2019. We
trifurcated the Golden Gate Estates Master Plan into three. 951 is
the division line, because that's a visible landmark. West of 951 is
the Urban Estates; then the Golden Gate City, the four square miles;
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and then east of 951 Collier Boulevard is Rural Estates.
So the suggestion is to bring forward -- amend the LDCs -- or
the GMP and the LDC to allow for legal renting of guesthouses in the
urban only Estates with no limitations on how they can do what they
can do except for, I would propose, when the ordinance ultimately
comes forward, that we allow for that limit -- that limitation to be on
homesteaded properties.
One of the issues we have with short-term rentals is lack of
accountability of anybody, landlord or such, to be able to manage the
actions of the tenants.
We have a far greater infrastructure on the west side of 951, and
so the increase in density can be managed better, and legally allowing
them -- currently, you can build -- for those of you who don't know,
currently you can build guesthouses in Golden Gate Estates. There
are limitations, size, shape, and such, but you're not legally allowed
to rent them.
So this thought was to enhance the marketplace, add more units
into the marketplace, and allow for homesteaded properties to be able
to have that as a legal use.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. If I'm not
mistaken, most of the Urban Estates is in District 3, my district; is
that correct?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I think what this
proposal would do would have the potential of changing the character
of a lot of neighborhoods such as Logan Woods, where I live, but
also the Oaks development.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I own, by the way, in
Logan Woods.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And so I think this is not a
February 14, 2023
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well-thought-out proposal because you're going to wind up with
Airbnbs on a whole lot of these Estates lots, and I just think that that's
just the wrong approach.
Now, if you want to provide some backup for this as to what the
impacts would be prior to bringing back an ordinance, then that may
be something for us to talk about. But just to put on the agenda an
ordinance to -- which will basically change the character of a large
number of neighborhoods is, I think, just the wrong way to go.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, what do you -- what
would you propose would be the good way to go?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: To ignore the issue and
move on. I don't think we should do this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let me just throw something out
here in between both of you. Is there any appetite for having the
staff take a look at this and bring us back something that maybe is a
little bit cleaner and doesn't allow for so many loopholes -- because I
had the same concerns -- or do you think that we're just -- it's not
worth -- the juice isn't worth the squeeze?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would say if we put this on
the agenda, we're alerting the whole world that we're about to change
the way people have lived in this community for a long time on these
large lots, and I think that's the wrong signal to send. If
Commissioner McDaniel wants to generate some information and
then distribute it to us, fine, he can always do that. But to have this
on the agenda, I think, would be sending the wrong signal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And if I may, I'm not looking
to send the wrong signal, Commissioner Saunders. I know for a fact
the -- the one thing I do not know is how many guesthouses currently
exist in Golden Gate in the urban area at all, but I do know for a fact
that people are renting them and not doing it within the guise of our
code. A lot of them are being rented and not doing it within the
February 14, 2023
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guise of our code.
So my thoughts were, we have a housing issue, affordable
housing issue. This provides for a mechanism for people,
homeowners, homesteaded properties to legally do it, and carrying
this through an actual ordinance will generate that data, generate that
information, alert the community that we're making the proposition
to, and get feedback from the community, but ignoring the issue
is -- I don't think it's a -- I don't think it's a --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, you have a
comment?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, I agree. You know,
affordable -- something that's affordable to the workforce is needed.
I'm not all about creating something that's just another Airbnb
opportunity. That doesn't meet our need in a community and at the
same time, allowing a property owner to create something that they
could have some income come on a long-term basis to meet both
needs, I don't -- I'm not opposed. I see both sides. I want to create
some supply to help the demand for workforce housing. I hate to
call it affordable housing. It's essential workforce housing. I would
love to see people that -- you know, our teachers and our
work -- we've beat that horse a lot, but...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we're not done with
beating it yet.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. But you know what I'm
saying.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: For peopler that are looking for
someplace to live that's not way out in Lee County or that serve our
community in a great capacity.
I don't know if you can -- I don't -- you know, I'm no lawyer. I
don't know if you can stipulate whether you cannot Airbnb it and you
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can long-term rent it, or if you have to rent it to, you know, three or
four people max. I don't know what those -- I don't know what those
rules are, but I'm not opposed to the conversation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do we have public speakers? I
know Mr. Trachtenberg, right?
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, we do. We have Mr. Trachtenberg
here from the AHAC. He's here in his official capacity.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And Commissioner Saunders is lit
up. But if we hear from the speaker first, maybe.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Joe.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: Good evening. For the record, I'm
Joe Trachtenberg. I'm the chairman of the Affordable Housing
Advisory Committee.
I was pleased and intrigued when this item appeared on the
agenda. And I'm sure you-all didn't get to it, because I only saw it.
But I sent each of you a booklet that's been published by the Florida
Housing Coalition on ADUs, accessory dwelling units.
This is something which does have some meat to it, and there
are other places in Florida that are actually -- and not just in Florida,
but outside of Florida, around the country, that are intrigued with the
idea that building these small, cleverly designed houses, providing
affordable places for people to live, is really something we should be
striving for.
And I'm not standing before you today urging you to take any
action on this. I'm actually standing here before you today urging
that we not take it off the table. But let's refer it to staff and AHAC.
Let us look at this.
To the question about keeping it out of Airbnbs, absolutely, that
would be one of the things that I would want to do. I'm not sure
necessarily it conforms to what your positions are. The state has
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provided that if impact fees are waived or financing arrangements are
established, that, in fact, these can be viewed as affordable housing
and would be allowed to be utilized either within a family context,
you know, you have an older parent, or as an affordable workforce
rental device. So -- I'm not an attorney. I don't offer that as a legal
opinion but rather my interpretation after reading the document that I
shared with you.
So just putting into context, if I could take a minute. Last
month over 400 people showed up at a forum that Greater Naples
Leadership sponsored along with some other good folks and
demonstrated an interest in workforce housing being what is probably
the number-one crisis that we face in our county. We
have -- according to the consultant hired by the City of Naples, we
are short 10,000 units, and that's growing 500 to a thousand units a
year. We have 48,000 people on the road every day that are
commuting to jobs here in Collier County because they can't afford to
live here.
And at this forum that I mentioned, we had our largest employer
speak, including the Collier County school system and your Sheriff's
Office, and -- I'm sorry. You're not timing me, are you?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: Thanks, Bill.
And the crisis is growing. The quality of life here in Collier
County is diminishing, and we collectively need to do something
about it.
So I don't know if ADU, accessory dwelling units, are really part
of the solution, but there are enough other people around the country
and around Florida that are focused on it that I do believe it's
something we have an obligation to our residents to at least take a
look at.
February 14, 2023
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We have -- the best minds are on our staff. If they need help,
there are consultants available. And, certainly, our AHAC group is
looking forward to working with them.
So I would ask you to refer this to them and to us, give us an
opportunity to discuss it, and let us come back to you with a report.
And I urge you also to give us an opportunity to present to you the
other things that we're trying to get on your agenda, zoning changes,
the surtax, the other items that are essential if we have a chance to
begin to solve this mess that we've got here in terms of workforce
housing, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders and then
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In terms of having this referred to AHAC, I don't have any issue
with this, but the proposal in front of us is to direct staff to come back
with an ordinance. And so that skips that whole review process.
So Commissioner Hall is our representative on AHAC. Bring
this up at an AHAC meeting and have staff explore it and then have a
report. That's kind of the way to do this.
In terms of Airbnb, we have no control over Airbnbs in Collier
County, and I think if somebody builds a guesthouse, my guess
is -- and they can be rented to anyone as provided here, it seems to
me that Airbnb would be permitted in that type of property, so --
COMMISSIONER HALL: If we rezone --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- my objection is just not
rushing into an ordinance but giving it to Commissioner Hall to bring
it to AHAC and air it out.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel and then
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's got a question and then
I'll --
February 14, 2023
Page 263
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just a quick question. If we
amend the LDC, can we amend it to a certain wage range to make it
workforce housing, and then --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That could be explored when
you take it to AHAC and have staff --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, Commissioner
Saunders, just so you know, take no offense to the proposition. We
are -- you are the commissioner for -- elected by the folks in District
3. We are all Collier County Commissioners. This is a Collier
County issue at large. And I know we have issues in all of Golden
Gate Estates, both rural and urban, about the illegal renting of guest
homes. I didn't see -- I don't think we can limit -- as you said, I don't
think we can limit how it's done, how it's utilized.
Now, if we move over into an affordable status with limitations
on AMI and holding off on impact fees and such for that particular
unit, then we may be able to dictate who it could be rented to and
what price range that the units are, in fact, held in if they're
held -- but that's something for staff to explore, and I totally would be
fine with it going through that process.
I wasn't trying to jump the gun other than knowing that an
ordinance coming forward will be further investigation, further
community involvement, and further discussion.
I want to do -- I want our board to make and do solution-based
decisions with regard to the affordable housing. I don't want to sit
around and listen to Joe talk about the deficits of what we have going
on. And this is an action. This is a -- in my idea, ADUs are a
solution-based rationale for us to get to where we're going.
So carrying it -- I'd be happy to make the motions to move this
forward to the -- to our AHAC committee and have further study
done and then recommendation come back to us at a later date.
February 14, 2023
Page 264
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Besides AMI, could length of time
be looked at? So we might be able to eliminate the Airbnb issue
that, you know, somebody could be in that guesthouse, it has to be for
six months or more, or just -- I'm just spit-balling here. But, you
know, to try to figure out a way to make sure that we're not creating
something that has a ton of loopholes, and it doesn't really do what
we want to do.
And Commissioner Kowal's lit up and -- but can somebody give
me a quick answer to that? I mean, that's something, obviously,
AHAC could explore.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, that's a great idea because it
would be part of the stipulation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's go in order here. Let
me go to Commissioner Kowal and then, Commissioner Saunders,
you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You don't have to apologize to
me, because six of the streets do fall in my district also.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, sorry about that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: West of I-75.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just so you know.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I think the way it is here, we
need to bring this before -- you know, Commissioner Hall taking it to
the committee and getting some more -- believe me, I am the biggest
proponent of property rights of people that own their own properties
and own their own houses. And this is something -- the program
they want to enter into and it's something they want to participate in,
who am I to stop them? Okay.
But I think we need to have -- for this to work and be part of that
force multiplier to attack all our workforce housing, you know,
issue -- because it's not going to be a one-fix-all. This is -- we've got
to come at this from multiple sides. I mean, we're going to attack
February 14, 2023
Page 265
from all different angles. And if this is part of that, and if it can be,
give a little extra inventory somewhere down the road, and the
property owners are happy with that. I think we do need to come up
with a language that does work and that we can look at and dissect
and go from there. So I would support us.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, then
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, no
offense was ever taken so that -- you don't need to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, good.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- to apologize or anything
for that.
I don't think we need to vote on this. I think Commissioner
Hall understands that this is an issue to bring back, and let's let it go
through that process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just have a question for
Mr. French.
Jamie, you mentioned yesterday that you would have to -- if we
did something, that you would have to hire it out because you just
didn't have the capability. Is that this item?
MR. FRENCH: Yeah. Thank you, Commissioner. For the
record, I'm Jamie French, your department head for Growth
Management and Community Development.
Currently right now we're running about 18 perhaps, 19 tasks
from the Board of County Commissioners. And so the staff we
utilize -- as you know, our group now supports the Affordable
Housing Advisory Committee, and we're so glad to have you there.
But the bottom line is, the same staff that does these studies are the
same staff that serve your community and your customers. And so
we balance that time the best we can, and often we do use a third
February 14, 2023
Page 266
party. In this particular case, this one would require -- because
there's a great deal of questions as far as limited -- limitations on use,
how we would title these properties, it would take a great deal of
coordination with, of course, our partner at the County
Attorney -- Mr. Klatzkow's office, and we're going to need his help
with this one for sure, but it's going to take some outside resources to
give us a hand on this one.
And so you know, Deputy County Manager Finn was contacted
even this morning by the Property Appraiser, and it calls into
question, there's already case law or apparently there's a legal opinion
out there with regards to perhaps jeopardizing your homestead
exemption if you were to do something like this, and we don't -- that's
new to us. So that's just something else. We've not reached out to
the other constitutionals to find out where they would be on this.
We do think that it would address a great deal of demand or at least
the question of demand and how to address it perhaps throughout the
community, but it's something that we're going to need some help
with, for sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And I think it would
be prudent for us to -- I'll go ahead and make a motion, as opposed to
moving this forward to an ordinance, but for Commissioner Hall to
take this to the AHAC and have it looked into and studied and then
brought back to us at a later date.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The data collected -- I wasn't
done. Thank you for the second. Don't be making -- look, I don't
do that while you're going on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I do take offense sometimes to
what you say. No. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The data collected from this
February 14, 2023
Page 267
is going to be immeasurable for us as we're going along. I mean,
there was a proposition at one time to do -- to allow for
guesthouse -- guesthouses to be constructed in all of Golden Gate
Estates, and I flinched on that because of the lack of infrastructure
that we have in Eastern Collier County east of 951. But we're
making enormous investments now in the grid system and
infrastructure east of 951 as well. So this can be something that we
could actually implement and see how many units come online, what
the -- what the positives and negatives, in fact, are. So -- I'm done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think -- I mean, I second it, but I
think we've got to really make sure that we're not passing something
that's creating something that could be a good thing but then it opens
up a whole bunch of loopholes that become really bad things that
we're avoiding now, and now all of a sudden, like you said, whether
it's Airbnb or other things.
Commissioner Saunders, are you about to chime in here?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I was just going to
say, we don't really need to have a motion on this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Commissioner Hall has the
authority to take things to the AHAC that he thinks should be brought
there, and I think he understands we'd like for him to do that. So I
don't think we need to have a motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So can we void the motion and
then -- and just task Commissioner Hall and AHAC to bring this
back? What do we have to do? Because it's on part of the agenda,
we actually have to vote on it, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: Mr. Chair, it's your call. What would you
like to do?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I don't think we need to
vote on it unless my colleagues have an issue with it. I think
February 14, 2023
Page 268
we -- we defer it to Commissioner Hall, AHAC, and then bring it
back. Is that still legal? Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Fine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anybody have an issue?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's move to 10C.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, is there any interest in the Board of
taking the Tigertail item so that we can let our Marco folks head on
back to the island?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Get back to their Valentine's Day
late dinner?
I have no objection, because I think the only people that are in
the room -- I could be wrong, but the bulk of the people in the room
are for Tigertail. So I think that's a smart move. Let's go ahead and
move to that.
MS. PATTERSON: And I don't -- I don't think this is going to
be a long issue. We'll move right back to 10s after that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Okay. 10D -- 11D, right?
Item #11D
APPROVE A ONE-TIME EXPENDITURE OF TOURIST
DEVELOPMENT TAX FUND 195 FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT
OF $921,400 FOR 85,000 CUBIC YARDS OF DREDGED SAND
ITEMIZED IN CHANGE ORDERS NO. 1 AND CHANGE ORDER
NO. 2 TO THE CITY OF MARCO ISLAND CONTRACT WITH
AHTNA MARINA & CONSTRUCTION FOR THE 2022
TIGERTAIL LAGOON/SAND DOLLAR ISLAND ECOSYSTEM
RESTORATION PROJECT, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO
EXECUTE A TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAX FUNDING
AGREEMENT, AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET
February 14, 2023
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AMENDMENT, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS
EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Yep. Item 11D is a recommendation to
approve a one-time expenditure of Tourist Development Tax Fund
195 funding in the amount of $921,400 for 85,000 cubic yards of
dredged sand itemized in Change Orders No. 1 and Change Order
No. 2 to the City of Marco Island contract with Ahtna Marina &
Construction for the 2022 Tigertail Lagoon/Sand Dollar Island
ecosystem restoration project, authorize the Chair to execute a tourist
development tax funding agreement, authorize the necessary budget
amendment, and make a finding that this expenditure promotes
tourism.
Mr. Andrew Miller, your manager of Coastal Zone
Management, is here to answer questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Only -- just one.
There was a change from what I read or what I remembered I read
before in the price per unit or the yardage, tonnage -- yardage with
this -- with this proposition I had 80,000 tons in my head, and this
request is for 85-.
MR. ANDREW MILLER: Mr. Chair, Andy Miller, Coastal
Zone manager, for the record.
The initial request was for, I believe, 60,000 yards that we took
to the CAC. And at the TDC, there was a recommendation put to
add the additional 25,000 from a different change order. So the total
is 85,000.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My bad memory.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep. I'd just make a couple
comments here. I mean, I'm very involved in this one. It says all
districts but, obviously, this is smack dab in District 1. But, really,
February 14, 2023
Page 270
we've had a partnership with the folks at Hideaway Beach. You
know, you've got senior leadership here from Marco Island. You've
got the Marco city manager, and City Council leadership.
Water knows no boundary. So when something sort of -- when
water sort of crosses across city lines and then it comes into the
county -- I mean, Tigertail is -- Tigertail Lagoon is a county park.
It's our property. We have significant issues in there that probably
should have been dealt with long ago, and we're trying to catch up.
Unless anybody has an objection, I make a motion that we
approve for this money. The TDC had no problem with it. I
believe they voted unanimously for it. And the numbers did creep
up. And I caught that as well. But some of it, correct me if I'm
wrong, is we have an active work site going on out there right now,
and I think more is being learned as we look at the damage and how
much, you know, sand it would take. And, you know, even the
dollar figure went up a bit. But, you know, I dug into that just for
the sake of argument here and brevity, and I was convinced that, you
know, all the right things were happening. And this is an investment
in something that we need to do that repairs and restores that area.
So I make a motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Got a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
MR. MILLER: I did have speakers. They may want to talk
you out of it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
February 14, 2023
Page 271
MR. MILLER: Eric Brechnitz.
MR. BRECHNITZ: I pass and defer to the city manager, Mike
McNees.
MR. MILLER: Mike McNees.
MR. McNEES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mike McNees,
Marco Island city manager.
I definitely do not want to talk you out of this. I want to say
thank you on behalf of the city. And I will point out one thing. I
think this title probably carried forward from an earlier version. And
the Tourist Development Council actually specifically requested this
not be considered a one-time funding issue. I think their thinking
was, this one stands alone. It is what it is. If there is some future
request, they didn't want to preemptively say there could never be
another. We certainly don't have one in mind, but -- so I would only
call out this issue out of whether "one time" is intended.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I mean, when that was
bought to my attention, I spoke with, I believe, the city manager or
maybe -- County Manager, maybe a couple of other folks. And so I
don't know if it's just semantics. We want to make sure we get it
right. But I look at this as, you know, this can come forward as
many times, but each time it stands on its own. We're not making an
approval now that every 12 months we give $921,000 for this project.
So I don't know what the exact verbiage is. It was -- it did
appear that the verbiage did change a little bit, so that brought a little
bit of ambiguity into the process. So I would just say we're
approving this as a stand-alone, and if down the road -- so I don't
know if, you know, it's -- I think the "one time" thing is sort of what
confuses folks.
Ms. Patterson, what's your read?
MS. PATTERSON: My understanding was that the "one time"
appeared in the TDC executive summary as well, or at least the
February 14, 2023
Page 272
version that I read, but I think what we are trying to do here by saying
the one time is that, yeah, this project stands alone --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MS. PATTERSON: -- it remains to be seen, the benefits to
Tigertail Lagoon, and it does not preclude them from coming forward
on a separate request, but it sets no precedent for any request in the
future.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Precedent, that's the word.
MR. McNEES: And we thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Your last registered speaker is Linda
Colombo.
MS. COLUMBO: Briefly. I just want to thank you on behalf
of the Friends of Tigertail Beach. We've been working since 2019,
as the other stakeholders have on this, and thank you for letting it
come to fruition. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All the thanks are done.
All the words are tight, and it's approved unanimously. Okay.
Happy Valentine's Day.
Item #10C
THE BOARD CONSIDER WAIVING THE REQUIREMENT OF
PAYMENT OF FUTURE IMPACT FEES BY RURAL
NEIGHBORHOODS, INC., THE DEVELOPER OF THE GOLDEN
GATE GOLF COURSE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT
WITH THE IMPACT FEE TRUST FUND BEING MADE WHOLE
BY GENERAL FUNDS OR ANOTHER COUNTY FUNDING
SOURCE –APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us back to the 10s. We're at
February 14, 2023
Page 273
10C. This is a recommendation that the Board consider waiving the
requirement of payment of future impact fees by Rural
Neighborhoods, Inc., the developer of the Golden Gate Golf Course
Affordable Housing project with the Impact Fee Trust Fund being
made whole by General Funds or another county funding source.
This item is sponsored by Commissioner Saunders, and he
does -- he did make a comment at the beginning of the meeting
pertaining to this, so we're going to have a little discussion and then
decide what we're doing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, it's all
yours.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I met with the Clerk, Ms. Kinzel, and she has pointed out a
couple legal issues here that may make this type of a proposal not
even permissible. But I wanted to have a little bit of a discussion,
and then I'm going to continue it.
I want to -- the Board to know that we have our workforce
housing project out at the Golden Gate Golf Course. Mr. Kirk is
here, who may want to comment on that. There's been a very
substantial change in circumstances because of the fairly lengthy
delay in getting this project moving.
And I will tell you that a substantial part of the delay, quite
frankly -- and I'm not criticizing anybody or pointing any fingers.
But the county is responsible for a fair amount of that delay. I think
we got some bad engineering advice early on in the project that set us
back probably about a year.
And then other things developed. We have arsenic on the site.
We knew there was arsenic out there, but we weren't, I don't think,
privy to or didn't realize how much it was going to take in terms of
remediation and then monitoring, so that's an additional expense.
But interest costs have gone up, construction costs have gone up,
February 14, 2023
Page 274
labor costs have gone up. Everything has kind of changed from
where we first approved this. And I wanted the Board to begin to
kind of think of the things that we may be able to do to help facilitate,
from a financial standpoint, making sure that this project can move
forward.
I don't think it's a whole lot. But, Mr. Kirk, I don't know if you
want to make any comments at this point. No need to unless you
have something that you want to add. So I just wanted to get the
Board kind of thinking in those terms. Whether it's impact deferrals
or something of that nature, I think, remains to be seen, but that's why
I wanted to have the discussion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Just as a comment, I
had in my notes -- and I spoke with the clerk as well -- because
we -- eventually, there will be, if I'm not mistaken, there will be ad
valorem dollars generated from the surficial portion of this
development. And one of the suggestions that I made was maybe a
TIF of some sort out of those additional ad valorem dollars, and part
of that money being fenced off to offset that expense of the impact
fee, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if we defer the fees, it's a
deferral period for, what, 10 years?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Apparently that's not -- does
not help from a financial standpoint. It has to be substantially longer
than 10 years. And I think staff is looking into some alternatives
there.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So my thoughts are just trying to
get creative. If we can defer them -- and did you say a TIF? So
that's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Tax increment funding.
February 14, 2023
Page 275
COMMISSIONER HALL: So you take a TIF, and you just nip
it down over those 10 years. You know, if you get it paid down
20 percent, 40 percent, and then you take the balance, and then we
could look at it again to defer it again just to let the cash flows or the
TIF, or whatever you want to call it, pay it off eventually. That's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the point.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we'll meet with Mr. Kirk
and look at his needs as far as the way his financing's structured and
how the impact fees play into that. We've been working on this
issue for a while knowing that each project is different. But many
projects encounter some difficulties with that 10-year threshold. We
are very aware of that and are working on what our options are that
help keep these projects moving but also don't impact the Impact Fee
Trust Funds or come -- bring the legality of these into question.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I guess, then, Mr. Chairman,
I get the sense that the Board is willing to entertain at least some
recommendations from the Manager in reference to the financial
structure of this project. And assuming that to be the case, I would
ask that this just be continued for a couple weeks, have staff come
back with us -- to us with some ideas after meeting with Mr. Kirk.
MS. PATTERSON: And we'll meet with the Clerk as well to
address her concerns.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Then I'll make that motion to
continue this for two weeks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I would second that, but
Commissioner McDaniel lit up. Sir?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And my comment was, you
know, we made adjustments to our affordable housing criterium hold
period and extended that out for rentals and ownership for 30 years.
Maybe we need to make some adjustments -- and where does the
10-year threshold -- is it generated by the State of Florida or by us?
February 14, 2023
Page 276
MS. PATTERSON: Outside legal counsel.
MR. KLATZKOW: You get to a point where you defer
something, and it's no longer of value.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: So at that point the time your General
Fund has to make up for the Impact Fee Trust Fund. So 10 years
was considered to be about as long as you could go.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so the thought process
was by creating a TIF, we wouldn't necessarily have to have a
deferral. We could have -- it could run synonymous with the
property as long as the ad valorem was generated. So we maybe
make -- along with that make some adjustments to our own ordinance
with regard to the deferral period.
MS. PATTERSON: We'll look at all of those options as well as
how we best meet the needs of the developer. And also
Mr. Trachtenberg is here, again, as the chair of the AHAC. I believe
he has some brief comments that he'd like to make before we close
this one out.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It looks like Mr. Kirk also
wants to --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'd like to hear from Mr. Kirk.
MR. KIRK: The Manager's correct, they've been working very
creatively with us for the past several months trying to find a
solution, so we're very grateful for that.
I think I would just put the perspective of the 10-year impact fee
deferral in this sense: When you have lenders who are potentially
making you loans for, potentially, in this case, 35- or 40-year
amortization, having a debt payment come due, be it a deferral -- a
deferred impact fee in 10 years causes them to want to underwrite
that very differently than knowing that it's postponed.
Because the target audience for this project is generally from 50
February 14, 2023
Page 277
percent of median to 140 percent of median, those units that are
120 percent of AMI to 140 percent of AMI would be those units, a
small number of the units paying ad valorem taxes.
So given the charitable nature of the project, largely the ad
valorem taxes of this project would be -- would be exempt. And so
the TIF will not probably provide that great of income. But, again, I
think there's creative solutions to this that we've been working with
the manager to do so and with Commissioner Saunders.
Thank you.
MR. TRACHTENBERG: For the record, Joe Trachtenberg,
chairman of AHAC. I won't repeat what Steve said on the Impact
Fee Deferral Program that's currently in place. We receive a
comment at least at every meeting that it's out of step with what
reality is in terms of how lenders are operating, so we do appreciate
the opportunity at AHAC to go back and take a look at that.
I do want to share just very briefly one piece of information
regarding impact fees, because it's something that just happened in
the last couple weeks. And I know that you're not guided by what
other counties in Florida are doing, but Saratoga [sic] County just
adopted an ordinance to help promote workforce and affordable
housing where they are tying impact fees into the AMI rental rates for
the various apartments. So the lower the rates, the lower the impact
fees. The higher -- you go up to 120, and your impact fees are
maybe two-thirds what they were. You start moving down the food
chain at lower AMIs, and the impact fees are declining accordingly.
And I think what this demonstrates is more and more places in
Florida are recognizing that workforce and affordable housing can't
be done on its own. It needs ad valorem contributions. It needs
General Fund contributions. It needs input from you gentlemen in
order to actually make this work. And we're actually seeing some of
that happen as Steve's costs continue to rise on this project, as interest
February 14, 2023
Page 278
rates continue to rise. And I think there have been some favorable
grants that have been helpful. So please keep that in mind. It is a
future subject. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So, I mean, if there's no
objection, there was a motion and a second, but I think this is another
one that we're going to push to another meeting, right? Next
meeting. Let the staff -- any objections? Any comment?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's move to 10D.
Item #10D
DIRECT STAFF TO BRING BACK AN AMENDMENT TO THE
GOLDEN GATE GOLF COURSE MIXED-USE PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT, ORDINANCE NO. 2022-13, TO REDUCE THE
SETBACKS AND GREENWAY TO ALLOW FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A STATE VETERANS NURSING HOME -
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 10D is a recommendation to direct
staff to bring back an amendment to the Golden Gate Golf Course
Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development, Ordinance No. 2022-13, to
reduce the setbacks and greenway to allow for the construction of a
state veterans nursing home.
This item is being brought to the agenda by Commissioner
Saunders.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We have -- we're getting very close to sending $30 million to the
state for our contribution to the next veterans nursing home, also
sending to the state a legal description of the property and taking care
February 14, 2023
Page 279
of getting a deed for that portion of the property.
The property is 13-and-a-half acres. On both sides, the east and
west side of the property, there is a 100-foot buffer. Now, that
100-foot buffer is required -- is a policy under our Growth
Management Plan dealing with conversion of golf courses. And,
Mr. Klatzkow, correct me if I make a misstatement here. So what
this proposal is is to relax that 100-foot buffer on both sides so that if
the footprint of the building needs to go into that buffer a little bit,
that 100 feet on each side, we can say to the Department of Veterans
Affairs that we have flexibility to make sure that the building pad
actually fits in that lot.
And so the request is that we direct staff to come back with the
process to relax that setback from 100 feet to as low as 25 feet. I
don't think we would need to go that low, but that would be a starting
point. And have staff come back with that so we can make sure that
the building fits in this lot.
So that's the proposal, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I support doing that, and I
think -- you know, I heard some concern when this was on the agenda
from some people, they're worried about precedent. I think this is a
very, very unique parcel of land that we're trying to do very unique
things with, and I think this is a perfect example where, as a
commission, we really need to be dynamic so we don't miss out on
the three amazing things that this lot can hold. It doesn't mean we're
setting precedent. It doesn't mean we're going to reduce setbacks for
every single thing in the future and this is going to be looked at as
precedent. There's so much uniqueness into this one that I think us
being flexible and dynamic is the way to go.
I see Commissioner McDaniel. Sir?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, you know, I
absolutely -- Commissioner Saunders, you know I've been with you
February 14, 2023
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110 percent in support of the veterans nursing home, but we also
have another agenda item coming up with regard to a potential Bert
Harris Act that -- on another golf course conversion on the alleged
100-foot setback deviation that hasn't been requested yet nor have we
requested this. And so my concern with doing this on our piece of
property, even though it's for the greater good and it's for the veterans
nursing home and would -- being very dynamic and such, it opens
up -- it opens up that Pandora's box.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I mean, only if we let it open
it up.
But, Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was going to say, that's a
very good point, and I had fairly lengthy conversation with the
County Attorney to make sure that this project is distinguishable from
just about anything else. So we have a state and federal partnership
on a veterans nursing home, which is different than any other type of
project that would come forward. But I would defer to the County
Attorney, because he has indicated, I believe, that he has pretty
confident that this would not create that Bert Harris problem in terms
of this being a precedent.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, I concur. This is a very unique
situation, I mean, between the state and federal partnerships we're
getting for this veterans home. It will not be precedent for anything.
I will tell you that I think you have the right to do that anyway. Part
of 12A we'll talk about that.
We constantly reduce buffers in PUDs. It's just something we
do. Buffers and setbacks the Board has historically always adjusted.
I don't see what the difference is on this one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But my concern had to do
with the actual golf course conversion and the language within it that
delineates the minimum 100-foot setback. And we haven't got the
February 14, 2023
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final plan from the VA with regard to where the veterans nursing
home is going to be. Certainly, the discussion can be made about the
uniqueness of this when that site plan comes back to us, and the
Board has that discretion to do it then. I just was concerned about
going forward with it now and then having somebody else come in.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I think the concern here is we want
to make sure that we can fit the building on the property, and if it
requires reducing the setbacks a bit, that will be a Board decision.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: At the time that they come
forward?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But doing it now?
MR. KLATZKOW: Doing it now would -- an LDC process
takes months and months and months and months. So I would
suggest you start it now to give yourself that flexibility so when the
time comes and the state says, these are the plans and this is what we
need, we can act.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I see we have no public speakers
on this one. Okay.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just for Commissioner
McDaniel, in terms of giving you a little bit of comfort there, and the
rationale for doing this now is that, as I said, we're going to be
working with the Department of Veterans Affairs at the state level
and the state legislature over the next 45 to 60 days. This is
imminent. This is not something that's going to happen six months
from now or eight months from now. Then in November of this year
we'll be in the federal funding process, and then next year we'll be
ready to begin the design and that sort of thing. But we have to get
our funding in place and our property in place over the next 45 to 60
days, and that's why this is important to move this forward as quickly
February 14, 2023
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as possible. We just don't have time to see what is going to be
needed. We need to be proactive on this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So, Commissioner
Saunders, you made a motion?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. I would make a
motion to direct staff to begin the process of reducing that setback for
the specific project.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I second it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Third.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
10E.
Item #10E
THE BOARD CLARIFY THAT THE COUNTY WILL BE
SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY COSTS ASSOCIATED
WITH SOIL TESTING AND ANY ARSENIC REMEDIATION OF
THE GOLDEN GATE GOLF COURSE –APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 10E is a recommendation that the
Board clarify that the county will be solely responsible for any costs
associated with soil testing and any arsenic remediation of the Golden
February 14, 2023
Page 283
Gate Golf Course. This item is brought to the agenda by
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Again, timing is of the
essence here. This will be something that will be a very small issue,
but it will certainly be beneficial for the workforce housing project.
There is some cost that's being incurred by the developer there in
terms of remediation of arsenic. We have the same problem with the
golf course, and we have the same thing with the veterans nursing
home and the same thing with the BigShots facility.
My thoughts are that the county purchased this property. We
had some environmental work done. We knew there was arsenic on
there. I don't think the county was aware of the extent of the arsenic
and the process we would have to go through to remediate it and then
to monitor it over the years.
We are the property owner. If these properties -- if these
projects just disappear because of whatever reason, we'd still have to
remediate this property as the owner.
And so I'd like to be able to send a message to all of our lessees
on all of the parcels that we're dealing with, as well as the veterans
parcel -- that will be actually a deed, not a lease -- that we understand
we have arsenic. We're doing everything we can from the county's
perspective to remediate that and then to monitor it. But we are
responsible for it. It's not going to be a big number, but it will be
something that's important, I think, to all of our lessees as well as to
the Department of Veterans Affairs on the property we're deeding to
them. So that's the proposal.
I don't know if the Manager has some estimates or guesstimates
at this point as to what the total cost of this would be.
MS. PATTERSON: Not at this time, no. We know that some
of the costs -- we have the magnitude of some of the costs incurred,
say, by the affordable housing portion for the soil, for the testing, but
February 14, 2023
Page 284
the remediation plans have to do with the soil management plans, and
that is going to be forthcoming. So we'll have a better idea as we
move forward with this magnitude. I can look at Mr. Kirk, but I
believe the number that was called out for the affordable housing
testing portion was about $80,000 to date.
MR. KIRK: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So here's what I didn't like -- and
then I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel and Commissioner Hall.
Here's what I didn't like about 10E. I just thought we were
taking too big of a bite of the apple. First off, nobody here is an
expert in soil remediation. I've done a bit of it on some military
bases -- I bet you have in some areas -- but you can't tell it from the
naked aye.
What I didn't like about it is I just didn't know why we maybe
aren't voting on just being responsible for the initial cost for testing,
and then when the tests come back, we have a better idea of what
we're saying yes to. But to say, you know, we will -- we will
have -- and it's not -- you know, whenever we say the county will be
responsible, it's not the county. It's taxpayers will be solely
responsible for any costs for testing and remediation, and we have
no -- we haven't even tested yet. I just thought it was sort of a big
bite at the apple.
And my initial thought was to split it and take responsibility for
testing, see what those numbers are. I understand, like you say, we
own the property. And I'm not trying to send the wrong signal
to -- you know, to the folks that have projects on that property, but if
it comes back and it's a really big number, first of all, I don't think
we're in jeopardy of losing any of those projects if we say, hey, you
know, we're looking for some help because we thought that the
number would be a lot lower. I mean, like I said, I'm just -- I'm just
spit-balling here, but initially my thought was, why would we say yes
February 14, 2023
Page 285
to testing and remediation all in one bite?
Thoughts? I've got Commissioner McDaniel and
Commissioner Hall lit up here. So your thoughts on that, or just
whatever you have to say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to address his
question first, Commissioner Saunders?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, I'm not sure I can
answer the question as to the total cost would be for remediation
because we do -- I think we do have a bit of a handle on the testing.
MS. PATTERSON: Testing.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But remediation is going to
be different for each parcel. So, for example, our golf course parcel
that -- there's no one living on the golf course, so the remediation is
very simple and won't be very much of it. It's mostly just testing.
The veterans nursing home, that's -- people will be living on that
property, and so the remediation -- the standards are higher, so
remediation will be more expensive.
The same is true for the rental project, the workforce housing
project. The BigShots facility, part of the pad where people will be
having, you know, dining and relaxing, that standard's a little higher
than for the golf course. So those are really the parcels that will
need some remediation. I don't think it's going to be a whole lot,
quite frankly, in terms of an expense.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's the negative, then, in
approving that the county take responsibility for testing, and then we
find out what comes back with the testing or -- you know, I'm not
trying to artificially drag this out. I mean, if the answer is, hey, we
need to jump on this, we're the property owner, like I said, I want to
just hear a good answer, because my initial thought was, why don't
we just take responsibility for testing and then come back and see
what the results of tests are.
February 14, 2023
Page 286
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The reason I brought this
up -- brought all these up rather quickly is because we do have to
jump --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Speed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And, you know, I'll
just use Mr. Kirk's project as an example. He's in the process of
putting all the pieces together and, really, I think he's probably got
about four, five, six months to make everything come together. And
so I think we need to send a message to, you know, the folks that are
providing the capital for that project, the philanthropic organization --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That we've got it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- that we're moving along
and we understand that we have to do a little bit more to make these
projects work. That's why I brought it back. You know, a
two-week continuance isn't going to make any difference, but I would
like -- and part of it was, I just wanted to have this dialogue and make
sure that the Commission understood we have to be proactive on
these.
I think this is a fairly simple one. I would recommend making
this commitment because, quite frankly, we own the property.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I still have a comment. I
deferred to him because you jumped and asked a question --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- and then it was to him. So
I still have a comment, and the comment is: I don't want to do this
twice. There was a contract for purchase on this thing. There was
an environmental study done on this thing with recommendations on
an environmental study and some -- every piece of property -- I have
bought old gas stations in my life with underground storage tanks,
and the food chain of ownership goes back to forever. And
February 14, 2023
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somehow we ended up owning this piece of property contractually,
and there's no obligation from any of the previous owners or any of
the previous actions. And I am saying it out loud, it's -- I'm sorry for
pointing at you. I was -- I did it again.
COMMISSIONER HALL: You're just a pointer.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't want to do it twice. I
would like to ensure that if we ever buy another piece of property
again that the contractual arrangements that we enter into protect our
taxpayers, our government, and we're not having -- because I concur
with Commissioner Saunders. I'm going to support the motion. But
someone dropped the ball on a contractual basis, legal parameters,
exposure from previous owners and so on, and we have to assume
that obligation in order to fulfill our obligations and commitments
that we have for the utilization of this piece.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's what I don't like about it.
But, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, you know, if everybody went
away, then, yes, we would have the obligation to do it, but
everybody's not gone away. And we've brought great value to each
of these projects with the property.
So I don't see anything wrong with splitting, per each project,
whatever portion is deemed their portion. I think -- I thought
Commissioner Kowal had an amazing idea yesterday. He said, why
don't we take you the dirt that we have to remediate for the arsenic
and do a dirt swap with the Vanderbilt Road Extension? There's
nobody living out there.
I said that to Ms. Scott, and she said, you know, there were some
things that she had to check out because of --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- wells and stuff.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no, no. When you
February 14, 2023
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remediate -- I mean --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You don't want to move arsenic.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What, do you throw it in the dump?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I mean, there have been road
projects and litigation from contaminated subsurface structure
materials used that were not appropriately tested. So though it's an
okay idea, no. Not -- no. There is very specific remediation rules
that have to be complied with, so just -- just do it and do it properly
and go along.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Oh.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sorry. I didn't mean to
interrupt you, but that was --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Hey, he threw me under the bus.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I thought it was a good idea.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Could I have a motion,
Commissioner Saunders?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, you know, I hate to
make a motion that's going to cause some concern on the part of the
commission members, because I know you wanted to split this out in
some way.
I think that the -- I mean, this is a wild guess, but I think the total
remediation expense is going to be somewhere north of a million
dollars. And so it's not a huge number. It could be more. It could
be less. If you want us to continue it and then you come back with
some better estimates, but --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is there a negative to just
approving taking responsibility for the testing and then bringing back
those results so that we say, wow, it was under a million or, oh, my
gosh, it was five million? Because, I mean, I've been blindsided in
my previous life with remediation that we all sort of guessed was
going to be something cheap and it's not cheap. And it's not just
February 14, 2023
Page 289
testing it and removing it. It's also taking it away and putting it
somewhere, and that's the thing that costs a lot.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, just so you know, the
testing and everything has been going on for months now, so this is
not something that's completely unknown to what the problem is.
Everyone knows kind of what the problem is, and some dirt needs to
moved around.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, how about this, a couple
of options for you. And I think the Clerk may have some comments
that she wants to make.
But the testing it seems like everybody is comfortable with.
You could also set an "up to" amount. And if we come back with
some number that's triple or quadruple that or a number that's
significantly lower, we'll report back either way. But if there's a
threshold that you're comfortable with, if you're saying a -- if you
want to set the threshold at up to a million dollars, that keeps this
moving. It provides some reasonable assurances to our partners, and
it gives us a chance to revisit it as well. And we can come back and
revisit it once we have -- once we have -- once we have an idea of
one, it's going to help us understand more. But right now we're
just -- we have just gotten the soil management plans for the
BigShots piece.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, Commissioner
Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Here's a -- perhaps, a
proposal. We can kind of break this up. We're going to have to do
this for the veterans nursing home. I don't think there's any question
about that. We're not going to be able to tell the state, well, we're
giving you a piece of property, oh, by the way.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: But, by the way.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So we have to, I think, send
February 14, 2023
Page 290
a message that we're going to take care of all of the sampling and
remediation on the veterans nursing home.
I think we could make the same argument with the golf course,
because we're ultimately going to own that golf course, and the
remediation on the golf course is going to be very simple, because no
one's living there. So maybe we can break this down into
component pieces here. We make that commitment on the veterans
nursing home, because we absolutely have to. I think -- I'd like to
make that commitment for the workforce housing because they're
going to need some financial assistance, and that gives them a little
piece of financial assistance. Then maybe on the rest of them we
just come back later and --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's do those.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd support that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I could buy into that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal's lit up,
though. Let me see. But I like that idea.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The Clerk has some
comments.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Can I just go to
Commissioner Kowal and then, Crystal, we'll go to you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Chairman, just kind of on the
same lines.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I find that hard to believe.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, it was.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Just kidding.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, the VA, I think we
own that because that property is -- you know, we're dedicating that
property to this -- this agreement with the feds and the state, and I
think it's our responsibility to make sure it's livable for these veterans,
but -- and on the same lines -- because I didn't want to just say
February 14, 2023
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blanketly we're going to do all these things just right off the bat,
because then we're held to doing them regardless. If BigShots pulls
out and the next guy comes in and he's willing to share the costs --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- with us, I think that's a benefit.
So I don't want it to be just across the board. Specifically with the
people right now we're working with, we'll work it case by case, but I
think -- that's the way -- I think the best way to go with it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ms. Kinzel.
MS. KINZEL: Thank you, Commissioners. For the record,
Crystal Kinzel, Clerk of Courts.
And I had the individual conversations with you earlier. My
biggest concern about the affordable housing element is that you do
already have an agreement, and in part of that agreement they took
the property at risk as-is pretty far into it in 2020. We just got this
all on Wednesday. If we could wait a couple weeks and give me
time to work with the attorney on that housing one. Because you did
an invitation to negotiate, it very clearly indicated there that you were
not going to subsidize those projects, and it also, as I said, in their
original contract had some "taking the property as-is" language.
So we need to look at the timing on when they committed to the
"at risk" versus the awareness, perhaps, of the arsenic problem and
look at that, and I would like to get comfortable with that element of
it and -- because I wasn't -- since Wednesday.
So if we can just put that one off till the 28th, I'd appreciate it,
and I'll work with the County Attorney and Ms. Patterson to finish on
the timing schedule and outline of the contract originally and the
timeline of when all of these things occurred.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. So, then, I would,
then, make a motion that we make that commitment on the veterans
February 14, 2023
Page 292
nursing home site so we're clear on that and continue the issue on the
other parcels for two weeks so we can get more information about the
costs and so the Clerk can have some conversation with the County
Attorney to determine whether there are any legal impediments to
doing that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
Any comment?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously with the
stipulations of changes that I think everybody understood.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood. We'll be back in two weeks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 10F.
Item #10F
DIRECT STAFF TO, AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME, REDUCE
THE LEASED AREA OF THE GOLDEN GATE GOLF COURSE
TO CORRESPOND WITH THE ACTUAL AREA USED BY
RURAL NEIGHBORHOODS, INC., THE GOLDEN GATE GOLF
COURSE HOUSING PROJECT DEVELOPER, AND CC BSG
NAPLES, LLC, BIGSHOTS, THE GOLDEN GATE ESTATES
GOLF COURSE ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEX DEVELOPER –
APPROVED
February 14, 2023
Page 293
MS. PATTERSON: 10F is a recommendation to direct staff to,
at the appropriate time, reduce the leased area of the Golden Gate
Golf Course to correspond with the actual area used by Rural
Neighborhoods, Inc., the Golden Gate Golf Course housing project
developer, and CC BSG Naples, LLC, BigShots, the Golden Gate
Estates Golf Course entertainment complex developer.
This is being brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And, Commissioners, on
both of these parcels there is property that we are going to be leasing
to BigShots, there's property we're going to be leasing to the
workforce housing development, and included in those parcels is
property that they don't need for this specific project.
So all we would do is adjust the legal descriptions to coincide
with the dimensions and description of the property that's actually
needed for those specific projects. The balance of that project would
be just part of the Collier County greenway. And part of the
problem in not doing this is that you have private entities that would
be legally responsible for anything that happens on that property, and
this is property that they don't want and don't need. So that's the
reason for this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd support that.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand it very well, but what
about in the lease language of a fee for common area maintenance?
Everybody has to participate for the part that they don't have to take
care of. Does that make sense?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm not sure I understand.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So common area maintenance, you
have a part here, a part here, a part here, a part here, and you've got a
little part in the middle that the county takes care of
maintenance-wise, but all the parts and pieces pay a fee as a common
February 14, 2023
Page 294
area for the maintenance.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The areas that I'm talking
about are areas that are not at all needed for the projects, those two
projects, and so it's not a question of common area where they're
using it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Gotcha.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: They just -- they don't want
it. It's not part of their project.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, you made
a motion to approve?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, I'll make a motion to
direct staff.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Item #11B
AWARD INVITATION TO BID NO. 22-8020-ST, BRIDGE
REPLACEMENT BRIDGE, PACKET D, 1 BRIDGE,
IMMOKALEE ROAD PROJECT, TO THOMAS MARINE
CONSTRUCTION, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $3,132,005.95
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
February 14, 2023
Page 295
ATTACHED AGREEMENT RELATED TO PROJECT 66066, 11
BRIDGE REPLACEMENTS EAST OF STATE ROAD 29 –
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: 11B is a recommendation to award
Invitation to Bid No. 22-8020-ST, Bridge Replacement Bridge,
Packet D, 1 Bridge, Immokalee Road Project, to Thomas Marine
Construction, Inc., in the amount of $3,132,005.95 and authorize the
Chairman to sign the attached agreement related to Project 66066, 11
bridge replacements east of State Road 29.
Mr. Jay Ahmad is here. He's your Transportation Engineering
director, and he is here to answer questions or make a presentation, if
you'd like.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anybody need a presentation?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let me do it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm asking -- no, I'm asking for a
motion. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, go ahead. It's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
February 14, 2023
Page 296
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously. Sorry
about that. It affects us all.
Item #11C
APPROVE AGREEMENT NO. 21-7862, PROFESSIONAL
DESIGN AND RELATED SERVICES FOR AIRPORT ROAD
WIDENING TO KISINGER, CAMPO & ASSOCIATES,
CORPORATION, IN THE AMOUNT OF 1,900,000 AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11C is a recommendation to approve
Agreement No. 21-7862, Professional Design and Related Services
for Airport Road widening to Kisinger, Campo & Associates,
Corporation, in the amount of 1,900,000 and authorize the Chairman
to sign the attached agreement.
Mr. Jay Ahmad, again, is here to answer questions or present, if
you'd like.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, this is your
district.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I make a motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We have a motion to
approve and a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
February 14, 2023
Page 297
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good job, Jay.
MR. AHMAD: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amazing report.
MR. AHMAD: It's worth waiting from -- since nine o'clock.
Thank you.
Item #12
DIRECT STAFF TO PROVIDE WRITTEN NOTICE OF A BERT
HARRIS CLAIM RECEIVED IN CONNECTION WITH THE
RIVIERA GOLF COURSE CONVERSION APPLICATION TO
OWNERS OF REAL PROPERTY CONTIGUOUS TO THE
OWNERS' PROPERTY PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE
SECTION 70.001(4)(A) KNOWN AS THE BERT J. HARRIS, JR.,
PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS PROTECTION ACT; TWO,
DIRECT THE COUNTY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE A
SETTLEMENT OF THE BERT HARRIS CLAIM WHICH MAY
INCLUDE A PRE-SUIT MEDIATION CONFERENCE, AND
RETURN TO THE BOARD FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE
SETTLEMENT; THREE, DIRECT STAFF TO ISSUE A WRITTEN
STATEMENT OF ALLOWABLE USES IDENTIFYING THE
ALLOWABLE USES TO WHICH THE SUBJECT PROPERTY
MAY BE PUT PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE SECTION
70.001 (5)(A); AND, FOUR, DIRECT STAFF TO PREPARE AN
LDC AMENDMENT OF SECTION 5.05.15, CONVERSION OF
GOLF COURSES, TO MINIMIZE FUTURE LITIGATION IN
CONNECTION WITH THE GOLF COURSE CONVERSION
February 14, 2023
Page 298
PROCESS – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 12 -- this is formerly Item 16K8 has
moved to Item 12A. This is a recommendation to, one, direct staff
to provide written notice of a Bert Harris Claim received in
connection with the Riviera Golf Course conversion application to
owners of real property contiguous to the owners' property pursuant
to Florida Statute Section 70.001(4)(a) known as the Bert J. Harris,
Jr., Private Property Rights Protection Act; two, direct the county
manager to negotiate a settlement of the Bert Harris claim which may
include a pre-suit mediation conference, and return to the Board for
consideration of the settlement; three, direct staff to issue a written
statement of allowable uses identifying the allowable uses to which
the subject property may be put pursuant to Florida Statute Section
70.001 (5)(a); and, four, direct staff to prepare an LDC amendment of
Section 5.05.15, conversion of golf courses, to minimize future
litigation in connection with the golf course conversion process.
I'll turn this over to the County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: I've put on the overhead the notice of
claim we received on February 3rd from Mr. Yovanovich's firm.
That starts a domino process, getting this notice. If you can put on
the next item, please.
All right. At this point in time, we've been served with the
notice of the Bert Harris Act. You can see the definition of what
causes the damage is set forth. It's a -- boy, I wish I could see that
from here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want me to read it?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. Inordinately burdening an existing
use of property or its taking care of a vested right. And once you've
got that claim, if you just scroll down, you've got a number of
statutory obligations.
February 14, 2023
Page 299
If you can scroll down, Troy.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can you show him how to
run the screen, Troy?
MR. MILLER: I only have control if he doesn't.
MR. KLATZKOW: The first obligation is that within 90 days
of receiving this that we give notice to the surrounding property
owners that there is a claim. The second one is that we get into
settlement discussions. It's required. Now, the settlement
discussions, if you scroll down, could be that we're not going to do
anything, all right. That will come to the Board, so the County
Manager would be working with my office to see if we could come
up to some sort of settlement to bring to the Board, or the mere
recommendation would be that we do nothing. This isn't a matter of
discretion. This is just stuff we have to do.
Now, I will tell you this has no bearing on the merits of the
claim itself, whether or not you believe the claim has merit or the
claim doesn't have merit. You still now, under these 90 days, have
to go through this process, which we'll be going through.
The last thing I'm asking the board to do, and this ties into 10D
discussion, is direct staff to bring back an LDC amendment -- and it's
really about the 100-foot buffer that we put in -- to give the Board the
discretion on a case-by-case basis to reduce it. You do this for
everything else, whether it's side yard setbacks or front yard setbacks
or what have you. The Board is constantly being asked by
developers to even waive the setbacks to zero setbacks. I don't know
why we can do that for everything except for a golf course. I think
we had that right to do it anyway within the LDC.
But I've got two claims now of people saying that they can't
develop their property because of this 100-foot buffer. And what I'd
like for them to do is come to the Board, okay, on a rezoning, and
then ask the Board. Now, if the Board says no, we're not going to
February 14, 2023
Page 300
reduce it, okay, maybe then they have a Bert Harris claim. But right
now they're just filing the claims without asking, and I find that to be
troublesome, and it's getting to be expensive.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, we always have that
option, so we have to make it clear to them that they're skipping a
step and jumping to the finish line when we haven't had a chance to --
MR. KLATZKOW: I'd like to work --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- (unintelligible) our flexibility, or
am I missing something?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. I'd like to work with -- Mr. Bosi and
I both agreed that you have that right now, okay, but the LDC
amendment -- I'd to make it crystal clear that the Board has the ability
to reduce the buffers on a case-by-case basis.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What were you going to say,
Commissioner McDaniel? You're lit up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Bosi. I'll come in --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, I gotcha, okay.
Mr. Bosi.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Zoning director.
What I wanted to point out and what I think and I've opined that
the Board does have that flexibility, and I did -- I highlighted as part
of the greenway the code in 5.05.15, and I will highlight where I
think I need to put more clarity towards the discretion that the Board
has.
And it says, you know, the greenway shall be contiguous to
existing residential properties surrounding the golf course and
generally located around the perimeter of the proposed development.
And then it says, the Board may approve an alternative design that
was vetted at the stakeholder outreach meeting as provided for in
LDC 5.05.15 C.3. And I think that gives the Board discretion. I
February 14, 2023
Page 301
think what we need is more clarity that this gives you discretion not
only for when it was presented at the stakeholder outreach meetings
but during the actual rezoning of the process, where the actual
regulations would be imposed.
Because your intent-to-convert process is just a programmed
dialogue between the developer and the golf course -- and the
individual residents within that golf course. It's not until the zoning
action that you really set the regulations towards where there's any
due -- or there could be any claims that could be made.
So I'll work with the County Attorney's Office to provide more
clarity within the -- within the LDC as to the discretion that the Board
has in terms of approving alternative designs.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And this is where -- I
mean, I'm going to support the -- I'm going to support the item and
bring it forward, but I've got concerns. We have somebody that's
alleging a lawsuit for a property rights act on -- and they haven't
submitted a site plan yet, and my County Attorney, our County
Attorney, is making recommendations that we adjust the LDC.
There's all of the people watching this right now. There's a lot of
people -- there's a lot of golf courses that have underlying zoning and
property rights, and we're making moves to make an adjustment in an
LDC that may not be enough of a preemptive strike.
I mean, there are adherences to the underlying zoning that are
effectuated on every single one of these golf courses, and every
single one of them is different. And I understand the rationale that
we did when we implemented the golf course conversion ordinance.
It was to try to offer residents that were impacted by landowners who
had underlying zoning rights some protection or some thought that
there was going to be a sufficient amount of green space still left
behind their homes.
February 14, 2023
Page 302
Now, the Golden Gate Golf Course, that was a whole 'nother -- a
whole 'nother scenario. That one -- you know, those
properties -- that golf course had a 99-year deed restriction that got
overturned in the court system.
The Riviera Golf Course doesn't have that. It has development
rights that travel with that property. And I'm concerned that no
matter what we do, the application of those development rights are
going to be impacted, and we're going to be exposed no matter what
we do in trying to make an amendment on a case -- we have that
right. You said it in the preamble that we have that right. The
developers come to us and ask to adjust side-yard setbacks all of the
time.
And so the illusion, if you will, of a golf course conversion
ordinance really isn't -- maybe wasn't the path for us to travel.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, no. The point of the golf course
ordinance was that we wanted the developer to sit down with the
residents and try to work something out. That was the basic gist of
it, and to have an extra -- it's really a super NIM process that we put
together. The 100-foot buffer, it was always intended, always
intended that the Board had the ability to adjust it on a case-by-case
basis.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do we need an LDC amendment?
MR. KLATZKOW: Because there are some golf courses that
are very, very wide, and you can do the 100 yards, and then like
Riviera, everything's shoved in there, and it's much less of a space
that they have to work with.
I'm just saying that the intent was there for the Board to always
adjust the setback. It's just that the ordinance language needs to be
tweaked to make it crystal clear that you do have that right. And it
ends these -- it ends these claims.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And that's the reason for the
February 14, 2023
Page 303
amendment, to give it clarity?
MR. KLATZKOW: Clarity, absolute clarity, yes. Now, if the
Board doesn't want to do that when the amendment is brought
forward, that's fine. You can say, no, you want to keep the 100 feet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and my concern is
making a, relatively speaking, unknown adjustment to an ordinance
that we adopted for the golf course conversion when every single
one's going to be different. There are other golf courses that are
going to come at us that are going to convert to a different use. And
we can't, on a preemptive strike, make that kind of a -- I mean, these
guys are making a representation of a loss or a taking, and they
haven't even submitted a Site Development Plan.
MR. KLATZKOW: As I said, I am not commenting on the
merits of this claim.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right, you didn't.
MR. KLATZKOW: What I'm saying, though, is if we clean up
the LDC, I won't have to deal with another one of these again. It
will have to come to the Board and go through the hearing process,
like they do for everything else.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We are going to have to deal
with it again, because when this Board makes a decision -- I'm just
going through this with my brain. Right now the setback's 100 feet.
These fellows -- these people think that they have a taking that's
being put upon them because of that 100-foot. And so we revise it to
be able to adjust on a case-by-case basis, but there -- I don't want to
point. There are under -- there are underlying zoning and property
rights that travel with that property.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, but these are all rezones, okay.
None of these golf courses are zoned residential. They're all zoned
golf course, all right. So they're coming in here for a rezone. The
Board has an awful lot of discretion in the rezone.
February 14, 2023
Page 304
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that a correct statement?
MR. BOSI: That is an absolute correct statement. The golf
course is zoned golf course. So they are more than entitled to utilize
their property as it is currently zoned.
What they're saying is are -- your golf course conversions
suggest that you have not -- not suggest, requires that you have to
have a 100-foot buffer. Because of that, there's diminution of their
value, but we've never had -- but the intent-to-convert process doesn't
require anything. It requires conversation, as the County Attorney's
saying. It's only during the rezoning towards where any of those
regulations get applied and the claim would become more valid, so to
speak.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So they don't have vested
density rights that were included in those open spaces now zoned as
golf courses? They would -- so why did we have to have a golf
course conversion ordinance in the first place?
MR. KLATZKOW: Most of your golf courses were designed
that the golf courses were the open space. And so if you had 100
acres, four units per acre, that was 400 units they put in, and they put
a golf course around it, you know. It's a selling amenity. It was
also stormwater. All right. But at this point in time, your land
values are just going up and up and up and up, and they're just going
to try and convert them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can we hear -- I have two other
commissioners lit up. So, I mean, just -- I know you're not done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was going to say, come to
the question, because it was my understanding that the Riviera Golf
Course had underlying density rights that travel with it.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't know that they do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, you just got done
saying it's zoned golf course.
February 14, 2023
Page 305
MR. KLATZKOW: It's zoned golf course. They have to
come in for a rezone.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
MR. KLATZKOW: Which is discretionary for the Board.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So why have the --
MR. KLATZKOW: The Board can tell -- the Board can say no
unless they demonstrate that it's financially infeasible for them to run
the golf course. The Board can say no.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So on the other side, if we
did not have the golf course conversion ordinance, we wouldn't have
a taking effectuated at all. There would be no side-yard setbacks. It
would be case by case, bring to us the underlying zoning or the
underlying densities that they have, and then we make those
decisions on a case-by-case basis just by --
MR. KLATZKOW: And, again, the primary intent of the golf
course conversion was to start a conversation with the residences
along the golf course and developer who wanted to redevelop the golf
course with the hope that they would be able to amicably resolve the
issue.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And now the burden -- that
hasn't worked out so well, and we created an ordinance that's put the
county in a position of a taking and exposed the county for a Bert
Harris Act because of an ordinance that we imposed upon a property
owner.
MR. KLATZKOW: And Mike and I would both argue that, no,
you have that discretion built in the ordinance. We just want to
make it clear.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, thank you. I'm just trying
to -- you know, I understand you kind of answered when -- they don't
have a site plan, and we're not -- you're not arguing that. And the
February 14, 2023
Page 306
legality or whatever their attorney did by sending this letter or not.
But I just -- I'm trying to wrap my head around this. If this is
what -- we already have the ability, because from what Mr. Bosi's
saying is it's a golf course, it's a golf course. And when it comes to
rezoning, then it's going to be a case-by-case thing, and then it
comes -- it should come to us. They shouldn't even get to this point
unless they have a site plan by sending a letter and saying they're
going to sue us.
MR. KLATZKOW: They don't want to go through the process,
okay. What they want to do is they want to be able to sue the county
for Bert Harris, all right, not go through the rehearing process, and
then resolve the issue through settlement. That's what this is about.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, number one, the guy has no
rights, so the Bert Harris thing is baloney, but we have to go through
this process.
So I think what the County Attorney is saying is right now we
have an absolute 100-foot buffer, and we have the discretion to lower
that at any time, but the language is not clear that we have the right to
do that. We just want to make the language clear that we have the
right to change the buffer. Because this guy's saying, I could -- if the
buffer wasn't there, I could put 356 units, but now that the buffer's
there, I'm getting robbed. I can only put 242 units. So we just want
to eliminate that chance down the road that that's what's going to
happen, and I think that's what -- if that's not right, then I'm --
MR. KLATZKOW: That's absolutely correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a quick question for the
County Attorney. We adopted that ordinance a couple years ago
now?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's been --
February 14, 2023
Page 307
MR. BOSI: 2017.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: 2017, okay. So, yeah, wow,
almost six years ago. Time flies. If there was a Bert Harris Claim
because of the adoption of that ordinance, wouldn't property owners
have had to file a claim within a certain period of time of adopting
that ordinance?
MR. KLATZKOW: As I said, I am not opining as to whether
this claim is legitimate or not, okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: I'm saying that because they filed this
claim, we now have the statutory obligations we have to --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, I understand, but I'm
just --
MR. KLATZKOW: And to avoid this kind of, in my opinion,
nonsense happening again --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Understood. I'm just asking
you a question that maybe is irrelevant, but --
MR. KLATZKOW: It's not irrelevant. We'll be arguing that
should this come to court.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: I mean, you're absolutely right, I think.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Nobody's lit up, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make a motion for --
MS. PATTERSON: We have speakers on this item.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, we do?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker on this item is Zach
Lombardo, followed by Tricia Campbell.
MS. CAMPBELL: Zach couldn't be here.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Tricia Campbell, followed
February 14, 2023
Page 308
by William Cannon.
MS. CAMPBELL: I'm freezing, so I'll try not to shiver.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want my jacket?
MS. CAMPBELL: No, that's okay.
Hi, I'm Tricia Campbell, president, Riviera Golf Estates
Homeowners Association, over-55 community of 692 lots including
over 300 homes that directly abut the Riviera Gulf Club. This is a
property which is the subject of today's agenda item.
You all have received an email from our attorney, our
association attorney. I hope you have. If you didn't, I have copies.
And also attorney -- County Attorney and also County Manager
received a copy, okay.
But for the record, I would like to make a couple of brief
points -- main points on this. This so-called notice letter from the
attorney for LA Minnesota, the golf course owners, is both premature
and woefully deficient. There is no basis for Bert Harris notice to
this -- to the county at this time. There is no vested right to develop
a residential PUD for 346 homes on this property, which is required
for a valid notice under the Bert Harris Act.
This land is zoned golf course and has been since 1969 as far as
we have researched, and it's still a golf course today. No application
for rezoning has been filed with the county; therefore, no decision has
been made by the county of any purpose of rezoning.
The application information -- I'm sorry. The appraisal
information includes that the attorney's letter does not demonstrate an
actual loss in value by anything the county has done. It wrongfully
assumes that 346 homes may be approved by the county sometime in
the future for a development on this property. This is just the
owner's hope without any reviews of a zoning application by county
staff, the Planning Commission, or the Board. And those of you
who know the property probably recognize that this hope is but a far
February 14, 2023
Page 309
stretch of the imagination.
The county already dealt with this four years ago in response to
LA Minnesota's suit alleging a taking of the property by adoption of
the LDC amendment in 2017.
The county's motion is dismissed -- to dismiss properly noted
that the premature -- that it is premature with -- no application has
been filed nor has any county action been taken. Nothing has
changed since then. Still no rezoning application has been filed, and
no county reviews or decisions have been made; therefore, as our
attorney has stated in our letter to the Board, there is no response
required from the Board to a premature notice letter.
And we respectfully request that no action be adopted. No
mediation is needed. No settlement is necessary or appropriate at
this time. And, finally, no changes to the LDC are needed regarding
golf course rezoning requirements.
As noted by two of the commissioners back in 2017, the LDC
required for the golf course conversion application creates a good and
fair balance between the rights of the golf course owner and those
abutters, who are your constituents and taxpaying citizens of this
county.
Many other speakers could no longer stay at this late hour, and
are under -- which underscores why this item should be at least
continued to another meeting.
Thank you. Any questions?
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is William Cannon. He'll
be followed by Scott -- can you help me with your last name?
MR. SODERSTRUM: Soderstrum.
MR. MILLER: Soderstrum. Thank you, sir.
MR. CANNON: Good evening. I'm Bill Cannon.
In March of 2017, I stood right here to discuss the Land
Development Code, the Bert Harris Act, and Attorney Yovanovich.
February 14, 2023
Page 310
Today, almost six years later, I stand here again to discuss the Land
Development Code, the Bert Harris Act, and Attorney Yovanovich.
In 2017, my comments were addressed to having the Board of
County Commissioners approve the golf course conversion
modifications to the LDC to ensure that my property rights to open
space views on the golf course under the Harris Act were considered
in development. Today I'm here to question the request of Attorney
Yovanovich using the Harris Act to award his client property rights
without a formal rezoning.
Central to this request is the claim that the imposition of a
greenway prevents his client from fully developing his land due to
the constraint that the width of the greenway cannot be waived. I
find this statement hard to reconcile with Attorney Yovanovich's
statement during the 3/28/22 stakeholder outreach meeting for this
golf course conversion. In response to a question as to how the
greenway 100-foot width can be changed to a lesser standard, he
stated, and I quote, the county has said we could propose an alternate
greenway for consideration. We presented it to you, and it is vetted.
And it does not mean we have to agree. And then we present it
to -- ultimately to the county -- Planning Commission and then to the
Board of County Commissioners. The Board may reject it.
Now, the second subject I want to talk about, the fact that the
Riviera course is the drainage route for the entire community. There
are over 40 pairs of storm drains in the roads surrounding the golf
course. The rain discharged from the front of our 690 homes goes to
the roads. The roads all drain to the golf course swales and
eventually to the drainage easements, which everybody calls lakes.
And an exit weir. The rainwater from the backs of our houses also
drains to the golf course, and the perimeter of the golf course is in
excess of six miles, all of which collects the backyard drainage from
our homes.
February 14, 2023
Page 311
The greenway, which can function as part of a stormwater
management system, appears to be necessary to continue the
stormwater routing from the roads and backyards out of the
community to the new lakes being built that are stated to be
replacement drainage path.
The third subject has to do with the cost estimate over
$20 million for the rezoned golf course. First, we are not dealing
with what I would call a virgin land. It is not a rectangular parcel
with extensive road access that can be just wiped clean and start all
over again.
Riviera's Golf Course is four parcels, two of which are not
accessible for development, and the majority of the remaining two
parcels require extensive modification and elimination of existing
drainage easements to gain access. A more accurate estimate may
have been gained by considering sales such as Evergreen Golf
Course, which is almost directly comparable to the Riviera Golf
Course, in that three of the four parcels are not accessible for
development and was sold for only $720,000 in 2021.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, can you --
MR. CANNON: Do you have any questions?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Perfect.
MR. CANNON: I can -- you've had some comments, and
I -- you know, my time is up, I'm sure. There seems to be some
confusion as to what this is all about. Mr. Bosi is correct, there
is -- a portion of the Land Development Code allows you to make a
decision to waive the width of the greenway.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't think we feel confused.
We just have different options, and we're just trying to weigh the best
one, is what I would say. Thank you.
I think we have one more comment.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker is Scott Soderstrum.
February 14, 2023
Page 312
MR. SODERSTRUM: Good evening, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good evening.
MR. SODERSTRUM: My name is Scott Soderstrum. I'm a
resident of Riviera Golf. More importantly, I'm a licensed Florida
civil engineer and a retired civil engineer for the U.S. Navy civil
engineer corp. So I think I have a little bit of expertise on this.
Facts for you guys to consider: Riviera is a designated FEMA
floodplain and flood zone; two, Riviera Golf Course is the drainage
basin and the flood basin for the Riviera Golf Estates neighborhood
and 11 other connecting communities; three, currently there are both
an open and unresolved noncompliance notice from South Florida
Water Management District and a county noncompliance matter still
open regarding the drainage system on Riviera Golf Course property;
number four, recognition of these existing drainage problems have
not been included in the documents before the Board; and, lastly,
with these big issues that are still outstanding, I have to conclude as
an engineer that the Bert Harris notice is definitely premature.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I agree.
MR. MILLER: That was your final speaker, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anybody got a comment
here?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I agree with that last speaker.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I just -- this is in my
district --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- and I just -- you know, I just
want to reassure that what we're doing here today is we're
not -- there's no decisions going to be happening in reference to
February 14, 2023
Page 313
what's going to happen with your situation at Riviera. I think it's just
purely our County Attorney just wants to get the clarity and the teeth
to put some, I guess, procedural things that we can use to our benefit
when these things arise to us, and just to make it a lot easier and
streamlined. It forces these developers to go through the proper
channels and the proper steps before we even get to this.
So I think this is what -- this is pretty much all we're really
going to make a decision on today, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did have one quick
question. Are you going to make a motion? I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'd like to make a motion to
adopt the attorney's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second it for -- and
the question is, Commissioner Saunders, or the County Attorney,
what is the statutory timeline for Bert Harris Act?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think that they're past it, all right. And I
believe that the ordinance that was passed is grandfathered; however,
having said that, we still have the notice of claim to deal with.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, that part -- that's the
reason we're passing your request. I just wanted to know what that
statutory timeline was. You're not quite sure what that number is?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's generally when the owner knows of it.
Here the owner's known of it for years and years and years.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. It's not a one- or a
two- or a three-year time frame or anything statutorily?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, it is statutory. I don't have the
number in front of me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't have to -- I don't
want to belabor it. You can tell me later.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I guess I have a motion to approve,
and I believe I heard a second.
February 14, 2023
Page 314
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. KLATZKOW: Thank you.
Item #13A
RESOLUTION 2023-26: APPOINT TWO COMMISSIONERS AS
REGULAR MEMBERS, THREE COMMISSIONERS AS
ALTERNATE MEMBERS, AND RATIFICATION OF
APPOINTED CITIZEN MEMBER AND ALTERNATE CITIZEN
MEMBER FOR A ONE-YEAR PERIOD ON THE VALUE
ADJUSTMENT BOARD – ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Item 13A is a recommendation to
appoint two commissioners as regular members, three commissioners
as alternate members, and ratification of appointed citizen member
and alternate citizen member for a one-year period on the Value
Adjustment Board.
MS. KINZEL: Hello again, Commissioners. I spoke to each
of you earlier. We need two of you to volunteer, please, and the
other three become alternates, for the value adjustment process.
I also did want to put on the record some things that will be
happening. Because of the legislature changing some of the property
February 14, 2023
Page 315
values based on Ian where if you were vacant out of your property for
30 days after Ian, you have the ability to go back and lay claim to a
reduction in your property taxes for last year, that deadline will be in
March.
Right now the Property Appraiser, as of last week, had over
1,600 applications to do that. The first bite at the apple, so to speak,
is the Property Appraiser. He does his assessment, makes a
decision. If someone objects to that decision, those will come
forward to the Value Adjustment Board, as does the regular property
tax disputes goes to the magistrate with the value adjustment.
So we need a decision here to replace -- to put two volunteer
positions. Commissioner Solis was on it previously. Right now,
Commissioner Saunders, you are still on here. But we would -- so
we would like one more person at least, and then the other three
become alternates.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Wait a second. I'm lit up.
You can't go first.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I make a motion for the new
guys.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: What I was trying to say
is -- because we kind of did him wrong on MOP when we kind of
ganged up and got him --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Amen.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- Vice Chair. So I'm willing to
be one of the people.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And Commissioner Hall. I
make a motion for both of them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I'll just say, remember when
February 14, 2023
Page 316
we were -- we had this conversation about how we wanted to sort of
tighten and not make these Supreme Court nominations. So if
Commissioner Saunders is the only one sitting up here that has
already served, you know, I think definitely he's one of the three
alternates. He's no longer a primary. So if we've got Commissioner
Kowal as a primary.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm willing to be a primary.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So anybody else like to
nominate themselves as a primary?
MS. KINZEL: Actually, Commissioner Saunders was
remaining, so he had that opportunity, if he wants, to remain. No or
yes?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, I have no problem
remaining.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: How long have you done it?
MS. KINZEL: We'd hate to have the other guys fight over who
doesn't have to do it, but --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No. Have you just done it for a
year?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, I've done it for a bunch
of years.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'd really like -- you know,
I just say that --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Either way.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, I like everybody to sort
of, you know, get a taste of these different committees. I don't want
to say that Commissioner Saunders can't do it, but if nobody else
chimes?
MS. KINZEL: Experience balanced with a new person might
February 14, 2023
Page 317
help out in the whole process for it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, you don't think Commissioner
Kowal is smart enough to be able to be a new person?
MS. KINZEL: No. I believe he can, absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm just kidding. Okay. So I've
got Commissioner Kowal as a nominee. Commissioner Saunders,
you're willing to stay on, and then the three of us will --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm delighted to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- will do the alternates.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes.
MS. KINZEL: Thank you so much.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THIS MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 15A, public
comments on general topics not on the current or future agenda by
individuals not already heard during previous public comments in
February 14, 2023
Page 318
this meeting.
MR. MILLER: You have heard them all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: All right. We --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to skip 15B. We're
going to do that next time. Those were just sort of updates.
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah. We're going to -- with your
concurrence we're moving Item 15B1, which were staff updates, we'll
move those to the next agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Nothing time-sensitive.
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS.
That brings us to Item 15C, staff and commission general
communications. I think we've said enough today. We'll move
over to the County Attorney.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just -- I lit up just because I
wanted to let the Commission know that there was a Letter of Intent
or interest for the Naples Cinematique (phonetic), Inc., a possible
letter to purchase the Del's property for their project. But this
was -- the CRA had heard their presentation, and I just wanted to
bring it before you guys that there is a Letter of Intent to get the
process -- to vet if it's something we want to do or if they even have
the ability to do it or not, so -- but it was brought up, and I
would -- figured I would introduce it at this point on record, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Does it require any action,
or it's just an informative? I think we all got that letter, right? I
remember reading it. It didn't seem like was -- was there an action
item?
February 14, 2023
Page 319
MR. KLATZKOW: The action would be that the County
Manager will come back to you with an executive summary outlining
the process, and then the Board will decide whether or not you want
to go through with that process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: And we would purchase that purchase for
a reason. The Board may just choose to keep it.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, if I might, I know there is a CRA
Board member here. I know this isn't an agenda item. Do you want
to hear from him?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Gutierrez.
MR. GUTIERREZ: Good evening, Commissioners. I think
your patience far outweighs your position on a day like today, but
thank you for allowing me to speak for a moment.
Maurice Gutierrez, Vice Chair of Bayshore/Gateway CRA.
We were given the unsolicited offer, and it meets some good
criteria, but what we did not see at the time, and I feel that was why
the advisory board didn't act on it, is financials. As they say, show
me the money.
We've tried twice to develop the 17 acres. Twice it failed due
to financing. So I am cautious about saying, if you proceed with the
process, it opens it up to a 30-day RFP, at which time any idea can be
presented, and then staff, CRA staff as well as county staff, would
have to vet, go through, and evaluate every proposal. That is time
consuming.
The reason I am suggesting maybe now is not the right time to
vet this is because we've got this park on the 17 acres we want
finished. Don't let shiny objects take your focus away. Let's focus
on what we've been working on all these years, and the Del's property
will come. But we have not evaluated the costs or asked the county
February 14, 2023
Page 320
to give us a through real estate valuation, so we don't even know if
the offer that is on the table is within those parameters. And I think
it's moving a little quick. So I just share some information so
decisions that can be made can be made with enough information that
would benefit the public.
This is an interesting project, and it does meet some criteria.
But, again, it seemed as if it was not funded at all, and I'm a little
concerned about chasing rabbits, because we've been down those
holes before and don't want to use the county's time or CRA staff's
time, because I think it's better for the community to focus on the
park.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, the question is, when
we -- are we obligated in an unsolicited offer for a piece of
government land to pursue that exploration?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think that the prudent answer to that
would be the County Manager will come back to you on executive
summary, lay everything out, and then you can decide whether or not
you want to proceed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is that okay with you,
Commissioner Kowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes. I just --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because I was under the
understanding we were under the -- we're obligated to at least take it
to a step to be able to flip the coin to determine whether or not it's
financially viable and worthwhile.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just asked staff at some
point, I'm like, how do we introduce this? They're interested. There
was a lot of positive feedback. I advised the CRA at their last
meeting just last week that I would bring it up after -- they had their
meeting in December when they presented it to the CRA, and it had a
February 14, 2023
Page 321
positive feedback. Naples Daily News ran with the story. It had a
very positive feedback. And I was trying to just get an idea what the
next step was, if this was truly, and I know you had a quorum that
night a week ago at the CRA, and nobody objected to me bringing
this before the Board tonight.
So this is the first -- you know, you sent me an email about
40 -- about a couple -- a few hours ago. A few hours ago seems to
be -- you know, I can't even remember a few hours, but -- and I kind
of explained myself, that this is not -- I mean, this is just an infinite
[sic] stage to get the county to look at it and then take whatever
procedures they have to do properly vet, you know, these individuals,
and, you know, whatever.
But, you know, the thing with the 17 acres on Bayshore, that's
on the 28th. I mean, we're going to be -- it's going to be an up or
down, I think.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's not today.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's not today, and it's -- you
know, it's having its day on the 28th of this month. So, you know,
that might be all behind us in two weeks. You know, let's keep
moving forward, because my opinion is, if, you know, we own
property, that this property is not doing the taxpayers any good with
the county owning it. It takes it off the books. You know, if we
have a private investor out there that's willing to put in a project and
put his own money in and purchase it and start putting tax dollars
back into the community and it's something the community likes, I
think it's something worth looking at, and that's just where I think
we're at today, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I like it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep, agreed. Okay. What else?
What's next?
MS. PATTERSON: Nothing. I have nothing, so I was looking
February 14, 2023
Page 322
at the County Attorney, see if he has anything, and then we'll --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Thank you for 12A. Nothing else.
MS. PATTERSON: Now it's to you guys.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Crystal's --
MS. KINZEL: And I apologize, Commissioners. On 10F, just
the question, the -- it said at the appropriate time you'll bring those
back. So you did that, but the official lease changes will come back
to this Board, correct?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: (Nods head.)
MS. KINZEL: That's what I understood. Thank you.
Mr. Rodriguez, do you have anything?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: No, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to actually start
my comments before I call on the others.
So, obviously, everybody in here has no significant other or
you're about to go home and not have one, just so you know. So
these are the people that have no lives on the county staff. Thanks
for hanging in.
We talked about some really hard topics today. We gave
everybody their say. You know, citizens were concerned that we
were locking down the podium, and I think we proved just the
opposite.
So I just -- I want to thank my colleagues for just really great
questions. We did a deep dive into some tough issues, whether it
was David Lawrence Center or some of the other things. We had a
lot of people in the room, and it was just very professional across the
Board. And so just appreciate everybody's patience and discretion
and hard work.
Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank God my wife works
February 14, 2023
Page 323
harder than I do. She's probably still working tonight, so -- but when
I -- you know, another long one for the record books.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hope she's home when you get
there.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't have anything to add
other than thank staff for their endurance today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll just echo the staff. I appreciate
all your help. You've been so helpful to me, and you've made this
transition really easy and just bless your heart for being here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, I have a couple of
things.
I've been asked to have a discussion with you tonight. We have
a circumstance going on with panhandlers, people that are standing
on our corners. They're begging. They're blocking signs.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Panhandlers?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Panhandling, yeah, people
that are standing on our sidewalks, and I'm getting a lot of
complaints. And the cross -- and the argument is, the discussion is,
is I'd like to bring in the Sheriff, have a discussion about our
ordinances and what we need to do with regard to our ordinances to
allow our sheriff to better help regulate.
I understand we have an ordinance. We have certain
regulations, rules, and things that the Sheriff can do, but there are
certain things that the Sheriff can't do.
So my question is, would you be -- would you entertain bringing
this back at a future meeting and having a discussion with our sheriff
to clarify the law?
The comments that came to me were the Sheriff was -- they get
February 14, 2023
Page 324
a lot of calls about it, but they can't do anything about it. And then
we get a lot of calls about it as commissioners, but the Sheriff isn't
doing anything about it, and they're going like this (indicating), and
it's happening.
So I think it would be wise for us to have that discussion. If
you're good with that, we'll do that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think it was about a year,
year-and-a-half ago we did have that discussion. We added a little
bit teeth and meat, but we also knew there was a lot of ambiguity in
there, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, maybe we can clarify a
little bit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. KLATZKOW: We worked with the Sheriff's attorneys to
get you that ordinance.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. KLATZKOW: And at that time it was thought by the
Sheriff and us that that's about as far as you can go with it, but I think
it's a worthy discussion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. One of the things I hear is
exactly what Commissioner McDaniel says is that we know that
there's an ordinance, but these people call the Sheriff's Office, and
they're told by somebody on the other end of the phone, can't do
anything. So it might be a little -- I think it is wise to bring him back
and --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I might have missed it,
because this was a long agenda. Did we have an RFP going out for
our lobbyist in Washington, D.C.? Are we thinking about changing
our lobbyist in Washington, D.C.?
MR. MULLINS: John Mullins, your director of
communications, government and public affairs. Procurement has
February 14, 2023
Page 325
been working up that paperwork now. It will go out this year, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Are we -- are we
dissatisfied with our lobbyist in D.C., or are we just procedurally
putting it out?
MR. MULLINS: We're just at the end of the contract, and the
optional one-year extension, so it has to go back out.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It does have to go back out?
So it's just an obligatory thing?
MR. MULLINS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because, you know, I hadn't
heard any discontent. I rely heavily on Commissioner Saunders'
expertise with regard to this, and just -- I heard through the grapevine
that it was coming online.
Burn ban. It's past time.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Sure. Good evening, Commissioners.
Dan Rodriguez, your Deputy County Manager.
The memo's prepared. It's ready to go. Dan Summers, in
coordination with the state emergency office at the State of Florida,
as well as the Department of Forestry, and the local fire districts are
waiting for the fire index to reach a certain threshold, and then that
decision will be made, and we'll keep you apprised, sooner than later.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I would like to -- when
we address this, I would like to address the ordinance and allow for
the County Manager to enact it as soon as those numbers are hit. I
understand that there's very specific thresholds that have to be
attained by our fire departments and the state and the emergency
services operation and so on and so forth.
But I recall one of the times that we had to wait for a Board
action, and we waited three weeks, and fires lit up. And I don't want
that to happen. So I want to amend the ordinance so that when
that -- when those thresholds are met, that this is enacted.
February 14, 2023
Page 326
This -- and I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not in -- what?
MR. KLATZKOW: I believe we did exactly that, and I believe
that the County Manager has that authority now.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: She does.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, good. Because I'm not
a proponent of bans, but this is a ban that works. It typically helps
our community. The people that are out burning their yard waste
and things have been the -- have been the issue. So sooner than later
on that.
Any news on the discussion about EMS and fire, that little -- the
conversation we had with -- you want to give us a quick update on
that?
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. So a couple of meetings ago,
the Board gave the nod to Commissioner McDaniel and me to open
up some conversations about I'll call it enhanced cooperation,
because the word "consolidation" always comes with such negative
feelings.
I have had a meeting with -- prior to that we'd had a meeting
with all the fire chiefs and EMS to talk about ways we could improve
protocol, some of the 911 dispatch, and they're working on the
COPCN ordinance. Since that time, I've met with several of the fire
chiefs, obviously, to talk about the concern that might have been
caused by, again, the mentioning of consolidation, provided some
reassurance that this is not going to be just a, you know, push forward
despite what anybody thinks. This is a -- consolidation is a
complicated matter involving -- even simplistically, if we all agreed,
it involves multiple groups, insurance, retirements, tax rates, all sorts
of complicated things.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
MS. PATTERSON: So really baby steps here. We did agree,
we all believe that greater cooperation, enhanced cooperation is key.
February 14, 2023
Page 327
We have some really good ideas amongst ourselves of how to bring
that about. They asked for a couple weeks to work on some
documents they already had in work and bring them to us, and we can
kick this conversation off with what we think will be wins for the
community to show we can work together and could advance,
ultimately, that consolidation conversation as appropriate.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, just as a note to the
Board and my colleagues here, there was a little concern about my
showing up with our County Manager and then the fire chief not
showing up with one of their board members. So I withdrew from
the initial conversations just so that everything felt comfortable. I
will engage when we move to that next step and the discussions go
forward.
There was a letter of interest on our sports park from --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- a group. Has any -- have
we had any updates on that?
MS. PATTERSON: We reached out again after our last
conversation with the Board, because we had had a number of
opening conversations, fact finding, getting to know each other,
taking this conversation then over to the money people on their side.
They had intended to get back -- because we don't have a number or
an offer. We have an idea.
Mr. Finn did reach out to those folks again. They indicated that
they'd had change in their financial group and they needed a little bit
more time to organize that information and are going to be back in
touch. But as of today, we have not received an offer.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well -- and, you
know, there again, there's a perfect example of a non-binding Letter
of Intent tying us up or expending funds. We're not expending any
funds right now. We aren't even making an executive decision, you
February 14, 2023
Page 328
know. And, certainly, if they don't come to the table with actual
value for us to make a determination, we don't have to pursue it.
Last, but not least, and this has to do with our interlocal
agreement with the city; how's that progressing?
MS. PATTERSON: We're doing fine. We are having regular
meetings with them anyway regarding the beach, both the beach
renourishment -- I was going to say Trinity's beach berm, but I won't
call it Trinity's beach berm -- with the beach berm. Also spoke with
Mr. Boodheshwar. We intended to get together last week, but he
had some events come up, so we're going to calendar now to get that
conversation moving again.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: There's no bad. More just Hurricane Ian
delays.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very good. And, again,
Happy Valentine's to everybody. Sorry I didn't bring any roses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anything else?
MS. PATTERSON: That's is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Good luck doing damage
control when you get home to your Valentine. We're adjourned.
*****
****Commissioner LoCastro moved, seconded by Commissioner
Kowal, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 3 TO AGREEMENT
February 14, 2023
Page 329
NUMBER 19-7494, “DESIGN AND RELATED SERVICES FOR
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD WIDENING FROM EAST OF U.S.
41 TO EAST OF GOODLETTE-FRANK ROAD," WITH JACOBS
ENGINEERING GROUP INC., TO DESIGN THE RELOCATION
OF EXISTING UTILITIES, AND INCREASE THE BUDGET IN
THE AMOUNT OF $96,412. (PROJECT NUMBER 60199)
Item #16A2
RECORD THE AMENDED FINAL PLAT OF PELICAN LAKE
R.V. RESORT – UNIT FOUR REPLAT, (APPLICATION
NUMBER PL20220006347) APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD
FORM CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
AND APPROVAL OF THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE
AMOUNT OF $25,932.50.
Item #16A3
THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT ADDED A NOTATION
TO THE ORIGINAL RECORDED PLAT OF SKYSAIL PHASE
ONE.
Item #16A4
THE COUNTY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, TO RELEASE THE
UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS) IN THE
AMOUNT OF $28,475.36 TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR
DEVELOPER’S DESIGNATED AGENT FOR WORK
ASSOCIATED WITH WHITAKER WOODS, PL 20210002607.
Item #16A5
February 14, 2023
Page 330
ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A
PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES AND APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR
NAPLES CLASSICAL ACADEMY, PL20210001891.
Item #16A6
ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER
FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF THE
POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR
CAMBRIDGE PARK AT ORANGE BLOSSOM, PL20220005183.
Item #16A7
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF
THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR
GREYHAWK AT GOLF CLUB OF THE EVERGLADES,
PL20220003178.
Item #16A8
ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER UTILITY
FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF A
PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER FACILITIES AND
APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT FOR BENTLEY
VILLAGE (WATER ONLY) – BENTLEY CARE CENTER,
PL20220005738.
February 14, 2023
Page 331
Item #16A9
RESOLUTION 2023-20: APPROVE AN FY22/23 FEDERAL
TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION SECTION 5311 PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION GRANT AGREEMENT FOR FORMULA
GRANTS FOR RURAL AREAS IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,264,610
TO PROVIDE TRANSIT SERVICE TO THE RURAL AREA OF
COLLIER COUNTY; APPROVE A RESOLUTION
AUTHORIZING THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE AGREEMENT AND
CERTIFICATIONS AND ALL NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS. (COLLIER AREA TRANSIT GRANT FUND
424)
Item #16A10
APPROVE THE SUBMITTAL OF GRANT AMENDMENTS AND
ANY NECESSARY GRANT REVISIONS TO FEDERAL
TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION (FTA) 49 USC § SECTION 5307
FY17, SECTION 5307 FY21 AND SECTION 5339 FY19 GRANT
AWARDS TO CHANGE THE PROGRAM SCOPE FROM THE
REHABILITATION OF THE TRANSIT OPERATIONS AND
MAINTENANCE FACILITY TO CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW
FACILITY ON THE EXISTING 8300 RADIO ROAD LOCATION,
REALLOCATE THE GRANT FUNDS, AND AUTHORIZE THE
EXECUTION OF THE AMENDMENTS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$588,841 THROUGH FTA’S TRANSIT AWARD MANAGEMENT
SYSTEM (“TRAMS”).
Item #16A11
ACCEPT THE FEBRUARY 2023 PROJECT UPDATE FOR
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UPPER GORDON RIVER AMIL GATE WEIR REPLACEMENT
DESIGN (PROJECT NO. 61202).
Item #16A12
ACCEPT THE FEBRUARY 2023 PROJECT UPDATE FOR
STORMWATER SUPERVISORY CONTROL AND DATA
ACQUISITION AUTOMATION MASTER PLAN (PROJECT NO.
50160).
Item #16A13
ACCEPT THE FEBRUARY 2023 PROJECT UPDATE FOR
POINCIANA VILLAGE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT
IMPROVEMENTS (PROJECT 50200).
Item #16C1
APPROVE A DISTRICT OFFICE LEASE AMENDMENT WITH
CONGRESSMAN MARIO DIAZ-BALART FOR CONTINUED
USE OF COUNTY-OWNED OFFICE SPACE.
Item #16C2
AUTHORIZE EXPENDITURES UNDER SOLE-SOURCE
WAIVERS FOR PURCHASE OF SPECIALIZED PROPRIETARY
EQUIPMENT AND SERVICES FROM HYDRO
INTERNATIONAL AND HUBER TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
NEEDED TO ESTABLISH, REPAIR, AND MAINTAIN
OPERATIONS AT WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITIES
February 14, 2023
Page 333
IN ORDER TO MEET DEMAND AND MAINTAIN
COMPLIANCE.
Item #16C3
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (“RFP”) NO. 22-8010,
“PRINTING AND MAILING SERVICES FOR UTILITY
BILLING,” TO INFOSEND, INC., AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
Item #16C4
APPROVE THE TERMINATION OF THE FEDERAL
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY HAZARD
MITIGATION GRANT PROGRAM SUB-RECIPIENT
AGREEMENT H0774 WITH THE FLORIDA DIVISION OF
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $262,418,
AND APPROVE ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS.
(PROJECT NO. 33801)
Item #16C5
APPROVE A $543,965 WORK ORDER FOR A REQUEST FOR
QUOTATION (“RFQ”) FOR AGREEMENT NO. 20-7800 TO
KYLE CONSTRUCTION, INC.; AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE WORK ORDER TO COMPLETE THE TRAIL
BOULEVARD WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PHASE 4
PROJECT (PROJECT NO. 70181) AND APPROVE THE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT.
Item # 16C6
February 14, 2023
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APPROVE AN ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 4
FOR AGREEMENT NO. 18-7277 WITH STANTEC
CONSULTING SERVICES, INC., TO DEDUCT $34,515.58 FROM
THE PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT COMPLEX DESIGN
PROJECT (PROJECT NO. 70167).
Item #16C7
ACCEPT A PROJECT UPDATE ON THE COLLIER COUNTY
SPORTS COMPLEX AND APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVE
CHANGE ORDER NO. 14 TO COLLIER COUNTY SPORT
COMPLEX PHASE 2.1 AND 2.2A AGREEMENT NO. 17- 7198
WITH MANHATTAN CONSTRUCTION (FLORIDA), INC., FOR
A TIME EXTENSION OF 45 DAYS (PROJECT 50156)
Item #16C8
ACCEPT AN ACCESS EASEMENT NECESSARY FOR THE
INSTALLATION OF A PARK BENCH AND PAVERS BY THE
VANDERBILT BEACH MSTU (HEREINAFTER “MSTU”)
HONORING CHARLES ARTHUR FOR HIS SERVICE TO THE
MSTU. THE ESTIMATED COST NOT TO EXCEED $4,050.
(FISCAL IMPACT: $4,050, VANDERBILT BEACH MSTU FUND
143)
Item #16C9
APPROVE THE SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND
AUTHORIZE STAFF TO BEGIN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS
WITH CAROLLO ENGINEERS, INC., RELATED TO REQUEST
February 14, 2023
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FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 22-8052 FOR
ENGINEERING RELIABILITY PROJECT “DESIGN SERVICES
FOR SCRWTP IMPROVEMENTS AND EXPANSION,” SO
STAFF CAN BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK FOR
THE BOARD’S CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE MEETING.
(PROJECT NO. 70283)
Item #16D1
APPROVE SERVICES FOR SENIORS, “AFTER-THE-FACT”
STANDARD CONTRACT AND WITH THE AREA AGENCY ON
AGING FOR SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC. IN THE AMOUNT
OF $1,440,000 AND AUTHORIZE THE ASSOCIATED BUDGET
AMENDMENTS, FOR FY23 OLDER AMERICAN ACT TITLE III
IN THE AMOUNT OF ($931,930.41). (HUMAN SERVICE
GRANT FUND 707)
Item #16D2
APPROVE AN “AFTER-THE-FACT” CONTRACT
AMENDMENT BETWEEN THE AREA AGENCY ON AGING
FOR SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC. AND COLLIER COUNTY
SERVICES FOR SENIORS TO DECREASE THE CONTRACT
AMOUNT BY $7,000 FOR THE EMERGENCY HOME ENERGY
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM-AMERICAN RECOVERY PLAN AND
SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION WITH REVISION TO
BUDGET SUMMARY. (HUMAN SERVICES GRANT FUND 707)
Item #16D3
APPROVE AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE
February 14, 2023
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THIRD AMENDMENT TO THE U.S. HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT EMERGENCY SOLUTIONS GRANTS
PROGRAM SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOUTH
HAVEN, INC., AND COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS. (HOUSING GRANT FUND 705)
Item # 16D4
APPROVE AND AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR
DESIGNEE TO PROVIDE WRITTEN CONSENT FOR SHIP
BORROWER, RESIDENTIAL OPTIONS OF FLORIDA, INC., TO
RESTRUCTURE AND TRANSFER BENEFICIAL INTEREST.
Item #16D5
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE COMMUNITY RESOURCE
NETWORK AGENCY PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT FOR
HOMELESS MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SERVICES
BETWEEN THE COLLIER COUNTY HUNGER & HOMELESS
COALITION, INC., AND COLLIER COUNTY.
Item #16D6
APPROVE FIRST AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT NO. 22-
7966, “BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL OFFICIALS” WITH
COLLIER RECREATION BASEBALL/SOFTBALL UMPIRE
ASSOCIATION, INC.
Item #16D7
APPROVE AN INCREASE OF EXPENDITURES ON
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EXEMPTIONS TO THE FORMAL COMPETITIVE PROCESS UP
TO A MAXIMUM OF $850,000, IN TOTAL, FOR OFF-SITE
VETERINARY MEDICAL SERVICES THROUGH FY2025.
Item #16D8
ACCEPT A DONATION FROM THE FRIENDS OF MARCO
ISLAND FLOTILLA 9-5, INC., IN SUPPORT OF THE UNITED
STATES COAST GUARD AUXILIARY; AND TO ALLOW THE
RENOVATION OF CAXAMBAS PARK BY MOVING THE
EXISTING FLAGPOLE WITHIN THE PARK TO A NEW
LOCATION OUTSIDE OF THE COAST GUARD BUILDING,
ACCEPTING THE DONATION OF NEW FLAGPOLE ROPES
AND INSTALL APPROPRIATE LIGHTING FOR THE DISPLAY
OF THE AMERICAN FLAG.
Item #16E1
THE BOARD TO ACCEPT THE COUNTY MANAGER’S
PROCEDURE FOR COUNTY CONTRACTS (AND OTHER
CONTRACTUAL DOCUMENTS) WITH A VALUE GREATER
THAN $4 MILLION, TO BE PLACED ON THE REGULAR
AGENDA FOR APPROVAL.
Item # 16E2
APPROVE THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY
THE PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR
CONTRACTUAL MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING BOARD
APPROVAL.
February 14, 2023
Page 338
Item #16E3
APPROVE NON-STANDARD AGREEMENT #23-008-NS
“PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT” WITH COOPERATIVE
SERVICES OF FLORIDA, INC., FOR THE PURCHASE OF
MEDICATIONS AND SUPPLIES FOR USE BY THE
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES DIVISION.
Item #16E4
APPROVE/RATIFY THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT
PREPARED BY THE PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION
FOR UNACCOUNTED CAPITAL ASSETS AND THEIR
REMOVAL FROM THE COUNTY’S CAPITAL ASSET
RECORDS.
Item # 16E5
THE REPORT FOR THE SALE OF 91 ITEMS AND
DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $525,365.00
ASSOCIATED WITH THE COUNTY SURPLUS AUCTION HELD
ON DECEMBER 10, 2022.
Item #16E6
RATIFY PROPERTY, CASUALTY, WORKERS’
COMPENSATION AND SUBROGATION CLAIM FILES
SETTLED AND/OR CLOSED BY THE RISK MANAGEMENT
DIVISION DIRECTOR PURSUANT TO RESOLUTION # 2004-15
FOR THE FIRST QUARTER OF FY 23.
February 14, 2023
Page 339
Item #16F1
RESOLUTION 2023-21: APPROVING AMENDMENTS
(APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS, CONTRIBUTIONS,
OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE FY22-23 ADOPTED
BUDGET. (THE BUDGET AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED
RESOLUTION HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE
EXECUTIVE SUMMARIES.)
Item #16J2
RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN JANUARY 12, 2023 AND
FEBRUARY 1, 2023 PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE
136.06.
Item # 16J3
THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND PURCHASING
CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF FEBRUARY 8, 2023.
Item #16J4
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APPROVES THE
FY 2022 SCAAP LETTER DELEGATING AUTHORITY TO
SHERIFF KEVIN RAMBOSK TO BE THE OFFICIAL GRANT
February 14, 2023
Page 340
APPLICANT AND CONTACT PERSON, OR HIS DESIGNEE,
AND TO RECEIVE, EXPENDS THE PAYMENT AND MAKE
ANY NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS OF THE FY 2022
OF THE STATE CRIMINAL ALIEN ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
(SCAAP) GRANT FUNDS.
Item #16J5
APPROVE THE USE OF $2,000 FROM THE CONFISCATED
TRUST FUNDS TO SUPPORT THE FLORIDA FBI NATIONAL
ACADEMY ASSOCIATES, INC.
Item #16J6
APPROVE THE USE OF $1,000 FROM THE CONFISCATED
TRUST FUNDS TO SUPPORT THE FLORIDA AGRICULTURAL
CRIMES INTELLIGENCE UNIT, INC.
Item #16J7
REPORT TO THE BOARD REGARDING THE INVESTMENT OF
COUNTY FUNDS AS OF THE QUARTER ENDED DECEMBER
31, 2022.
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2023-22: REAPPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE
BAYSHORE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
Item #16K2
February 14, 2023
Page 341
RESOLUTION 2023-23: REAPPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD.
Item #16K3
RESOLUTION 2023-24: REAPPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE
COLLIER COUNTY CITIZEN CORPS.
Item #16K4
RESOLUTION 2023-25: APPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE
EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES AUTHORITY.
Item #16K5
APPROVE THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND
MUTUAL RELEASE RESULTING FROM THE PRE-SUIT
DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCESS IN THE AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, AS EX-OFFICIO OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT AND FLORIDA DESIGN
DRILLING CORPORATION AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT.
Item # 16K6
APPROVE A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE TOTAL
AMOUNT OF $103,000 PLUS $29,006.96 IN STATUTORY
ATTORNEY FEES, LITIGATION COSTS, APPORTIONMENT
ATTORNEYS’ FEES, AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR
THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1123FEE REQUIRED FOR THE
February 14, 2023
Page 342
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO.
60168, AND DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO THE COUNTY
MANAGER OR THEIR DESIGNEE TO PROCESS PAYMENT OF
ADDITIONAL STATUTORY ATTORNEY’S FEES FOR
SUPPLEMENTAL PROCEEDINGS NOT TO EXCEED $3,000, IF
ANY, AS AUTHORIZED BY CH. 73, FLA. STAT.
Item #16K7
APPROVE A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE TOTAL
AMOUNT OF $136,000 PLUS $35,090.39 IN STATUTORY
ATTORNEY FEES, LITIGATION COSTS, APPORTIONMENT
ATTORNEYS’ FEES, AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR
THE TAKING OF PARCEL 1139FEE REQUIRED FOR THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO.
60168, AND DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO THE COUNTY
MANAGER OR THEIR DESIGNEE TO PROCESS PAYMENT OF
ADDITIONAL STATUTORY ATTORNEY’S FEES FOR
SUPPLEMENTAL PROCEEDINGS NOT TO EXCEED $3,000, IF
ANY, AS AUTHORIZED BY CH. 73, FLA. STAT.
Item #16K8
DIRECT STAFF TO PROVIDE WRITTEN NOTICE OF A BERT
HARRIS CLAIM RECEIVED IN CONNECTION WITH THE
RIVIERA GOLF COURSE CONVERSION APPLICATION TO
OWNERS OF REAL PROPERTY CONTIGUOUS TO THE
OWNER’S PROPERTY PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTES
SECTION 70.001(4)(A), KNOWN AS THE BERT J. HARRIS, JR.
PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS PROTECTION ACT; 2) DIRECT
THE COUNTY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE A SETTLEMENT
February 14, 2023
Page 343
OF THE BERT HARRIS CLAIM, WHICH MAY INCLUDE A
PRE-SUIT MEDIATION CONFERENCE, AND RETURN TO THE
BOARD FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE SETTLEMENT; 3)
DIRECT STAFF TO ISSUE A WRITTEN STATEMENT OF
ALLOWABLE USES IDENTIFYING THE ALLOWABLE USES
TO WHICH THE SUBJECT PROPERTY MAY BE PUT
PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTES SECTION 70.001(5)(A);
AND 4) DIRECT STAFF TO PREPARE AN LDC AMENDMENT
OF SECTION 5.05.15, CONVERSION OF GOLF COURSES, TO
MINIMIZE FUTURE LITIGATION IN CONNECTION WITH THE
GOLF COURSE CONVERSION PROCESS.
Item #17A
ORDINANCE 2023-12: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. 07-34, AS AMENDED, THE KAICASA
RESIDENTIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT TO CHANGE
THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING INCOME LEVELS FROM AT OR
BELOW 60% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME TO UP TO AND
INCLUDING 120% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME; AND
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. THE SUBJECT
PROPERTY, CONSISTING OF 100± ACRES, IS LOCATED ON
THE NORTH SIDE OF STATE ROAD 29, JUST EAST OF
VILLAGE OAKS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, AND
APPROXIMATELY TWO MILES EAST OF THE
INTERSECTION OF STATE ROAD 29 AND COUNTY ROAD
846 IN SECTIONS 12 AND 13, TOWNSHIP 47 SOUTH, RANGE
27 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20220003938]
*****
February 14, 2023
Page 344
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:06 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
________________________________________
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
___________________________
These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as
presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.