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CAC WQ Subcommittee Minutes 01-11-2023January 11, 2023 1 MINUTES OF THE COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE WATER QUALITY SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING Naples, Florida, January 11, 2023 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee Water Quality Subcommittee, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 1 P.M. in REGULAR SESSION at the GMD Horseshoe Square South Conference Room, 2685 Horseshoe Drive S., Unit 103, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Bob Roth VICE CHAIRMAN: Bob Raymond Ray Christman ALSO PRESENT: Rhonda Watkins, Principal Environmental Specialist Danette Kinaszczuk, Pollution Control Manager Farron Turner, Management Analyst 1, Coastal Zone Management January 11, 2023 2 I. Call to Order Chairman Roth called the meeting to order at 1:01 p.m. II. Roll Call Roll call was taken and a quorum of two was established; a third arrived later. III. Changes and Approval of Agenda No changes were made. IV. Approval of CAC Sub-Committee Minutes None V. Public Comments None VI. Staff Reports None VII. New Business None VIII. Old Business Chairman Roth said that at the last subcommittee meeting in April, the subcommittee agreed to push for vertical oyster gardens (VOGs) because it doesn’t interfere with anything other groups and agencies are doing. He and Farron worked on a summary recommendation that was then reviewed by Assistant County Attorney Colleen Greene and considered by the full CAC in May. He read portions of the May 12, 2022, Executive Summary presented to the full CAC, noting that:  Oysters are marine bi-valve shellfish organisms native to Collier County and its surrounding coastal and estuarine waters.  Oysters are natural filter-feeders that remove harmful excess nutrients and pollutants from the waters as they feed on microscopic algae.  A single oyster can filter 20 to 50 gallons per day, while groups and colonies of oysters can filter millions of gallons of water daily naturally.  By removing excess nutrients and pollutants from coastal waterways with compromised water quality, oysters can support healthy coast lines by improving water clarity and quality.  The ability to improve water quality should make a VOG program a priority for water quality conservation efforts in Collier County.  A VOG program could be a county initiative that works with local conservation organizations to organize community-based groups of citizens to collect, assemble and distribute the VOGs.  A VOG is a string of recycled seashells that can be locally sourced, strung together and suspended vertically in seawater to provide structure and habitat for new oysters to attach and grow. Chairman Roth said that was part of their recommendations, but he didn’t know this was part of their recommendation: To achieve such an initiative, the Water Quality sub-committee recommends that the subcommittee consult with community groups, including The Conservancy, Rookery Bay and the Estuary Association and contact representatives of the Sarasota Bay Estuary Program, Manatee County Parks and Natural Resources Department, and the Tampa Bay Estuary Program for additional January 11, 2023 3 information on the successful VOG Programs in each community. The subcommittee will identify a proposed budget and resources needed to implement the VOG Program and report back to the CAC for a recommendation of approval to forward to the Board of County Commissioners. Chairman Roth said that upset him because it seems like they’re telling us to go away. How are we going to accomplish that? We’re volunteers. [Others agreed.] That would be difficult timewise and would put an end to the program. There must be another way to do it. We don’t have a budget and we don’t have the resources to know the budget. Ms. Turner noted that the changes were probably made by Colleen and Andy and said they don’t have the staff to do all that. Vice Chair Raymond said we have no access to the budget. [Mr. Christman joined the meeting at 1:07 p.m. and Ms. Turner read what had occurred during the meeting so far.] Chairman Roth noted that:  The subcommittee doesn’t have the resources to accomplish that, or a budget.  The subcommittee didn’t recommend all that; it recommended the county take on the program.  There must be a process of collecting shells, making the VOGs and distributing them.  This is a good idea, but implementation may be difficult.  Rock Creek, a community near the airport, sent a flyer to residents to tell them they could make oyster farms.  Collier County could send out VOG information in utility bills.  An organization called START (Solutions To Avoid Red Tide) accomplishes similar projects by getting bags of oyster shells from restaurants and making oyster reefs.  A VOG is a vertical string of oyster shells.  The idea was to get public involvement so people could do it in their backyards. A discussion between staff and the subcommittee ensued and the following points were made:  This may be possible through the state MS4 program, public education, outreach and involvement.  The subcommittee wasn’t suggesting harvesting oysters on Keewaydin Island.  There are probably regulations about residents doing their own aquaculture.  The subcommittee said it would approach groups with volunteers to see if any could take on the program.  The chairman believed Collier County wanted to take credit for the program and not ask Rookery Bay to do it.  Staff said there’s no reason the county needs to take credit.  The intent is to promote clean-water initiatives and find fresh/saltwater groups to work on it.  The only way to implement it is to partner with a group such as the Conservancy, Rookery Bay or the Estuary Association.  Staff could get representatives of those organizations to meet with staff and the subcommittee to see if any would be interested; staff could create an agenda for discussion.  This could be a joint effort.  The minutes said the subcommittee would report back to the CAC.  The Water-Quality Subcommittee was created because CAC members weren’t familiar with water-quality sampling and what the county already had in place; it was 2018, when there was a red-tide bloom. January 11, 2023 4  Staff already was doing many of the things the subcommittee was tasked with doing.  VOGs would be a great project.  The City of Naples has an oyster reef program and county staff volunteers.  This doesn’t have to be a county recommendation; the county could support existing programs.  This was to go to the full CAC and BCC for approval, but there’s nothing to approve yet.  One of the subcommittee’s main purposes was that the full CAC wasn’t interested in taking on water quality; CAC Chairman David Trecker proposed it to former County Manager Leo Ochs and got approval to create a subcommittee.  The CAC wasn’t familiar with current programs.  Staff can periodically provide the full CAC with information and updates.  There doesn’t seem to be a need for the CAC Water-Quality Subcommittee.  County staff communicates with the cities daily.  It’s important that Ms. Watkins and Ms. Kinaszczuk provide the CAC with an update on what staff is doing. That’s more important than continuing the Water Quality Subcommittee.  Staff said there aren’t that many changes occurring. Chairman Roth said enabling legislation was filed with the state and the CAC came out of that in 2019. It authorized CAC to review water-quality issues that affect the county bays, estuaries, inlets and shorelines, none of which are under your watch. Additional functions and powers of the CAC include water issues affecting Collier County, including the cities of Naples, Marco Island and Everglades, which we never talk about. That includes bacteria, nutrients and toxic metals. It also says not to duplicate state and local programs and to avoid lengthy studies to gain support for recommendations. It says the CAC should make brief periodic recommendations to the board, understanding that county resources may be needed to flesh out proposals if the board desires to pursue them. That’s what he thought the subcommittee did. Mr. Christman said that before they discuss future initiatives, it should be noted that the prior subcommittee came up with three initiatives. It’s not clear that they were presented to the BCC or if the BCC ever took action on them. He listed the recommendations:  Provide adequate resources for timely removal of dead fish and other dead marine life from beaches, inlets, canals and estuaries.  Provide adequate resources to ensure compliance with the fertilizer ordinance.  Determine the cost for installing Advanced Wastewater Treatment to substantially reduce nutrient levels in recycled water used for irrigation. He wondered if the subcommittee’s ideas were even being considered and acted upon. Is there a process to have these ideas considered? If not, what’s the purpose of the subcommittee? [Chairman Roth and Vice Chair Raymond agreed.] Chairman Roth noted that Ms. Kinaszczuk said all new wastewater plants will meet the AWC (Florida Aquatic Weed Control Act). Ms. Kinaszczuk said that’s what she was told. Chairman Roth said the best level of treated effluent is a 47-year-old law, the Grizzle-Figg Statute (Florida Statutes Section 403.086), 1 ppm of phosphorus and 3 ppm of nitrogen. If you sent that up to the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, they would ask if we were still in the 1980s, which is when Grizzle-Figg came out. That’s the highest level of treatment in the state of Florida. But if we could get that for the reuse water, we’d be well ahead of where we are right now. January 11, 2023 5 Chairman Roth noted that:  Under a sanitary engineer’s perspective, a septic tank is a two-step process and that’s how most of the wastewater plants in Florida are.  Florida adds a third disinfection process, where they add chlorine to disinfect and kill the bugs, so nobody gets sick – unlike a tertiary level, which is nutrient removal.  A septic tank has an aerobic and an anaerobic process of bacteria in the absorption field and then it gets filtered by sand.  We have mechanical filters that are membranes that turn it into crystal-clear water. It gets sprayed on lawns and it’s been disinfected, but that’s it.  We took Marco Island off septic tanks and put in a sewer plant to treat water to almost the same level (slightly better) to spray it on lawns. It still ends up in the ocean.  He hopes county staff would put that in their 2023 Water Quality Report and say they’re still looking at reuse and freshwater bodies in areas where there is re-use irrigation. A discussion ensued and the following points were made:  Florida is very behind in its best practices. It’s 47 years behind.  Subcommittee hadn’t visited the waste-water treatment plant.  Naples is the only municipality using Grizzle-Figg for re-use, but Sarasota is about to use it under a consent decree after being sued.  There is no membrane treatment at county facilities.  The county is using the bare minimum required by state law for treatment.  The county should get everything up to Grizzle-Figg standards and retrofit all plants.  That would be a huge undertaking that could take a decade; it’s not even best practices.  Current technology is about one-fifth of 1 ppm, 0.2.  The idea is that reclaimed water would get tertiary treatment, but people overwater.  The county needs to stop polluting.  If reclaimed water were colored, people would see it and understand.  Much of the cause is agriculture, but we can’t touch that.  The governor just announced that billions will be given to the Everglades to create huge reservoirs, which will only deal with the symptoms and not the cause.  Some of that state money should be offered as grants to upgrade the quality of re-use water.  When Mr. Christman worked for the state of Pennsylvania he was involved in creating a statewide bond program for local governments to rebuild local water and sewage infrastructure. It involved low-interest loans and grants, depending on the fiscal situation. Over 20 years, billions of dollars were spent on upgrades.  We need to get off septic and switch to treatment plants, the standard. It needs to be state funded.  Is there any way to tie this to federal grants, such as the Inflation Reduction Act or the Infrastructure Act? It could be tied to climate change.  Westchester, NY, got off septic using federal Clean Water Act funds.  Septic isn’t bad, but Golden Gate should stay on septic because if they ever put in sewers to bring it to a central location to put on everyone’s lawns, that will create a larger problem.  There’s nothing wrong with decentralized sewer, as long as it’s not on a postage-stamp-sized area such as Marco Island. We can’t have septic tanks that close to one another. You must have at least 2-acre zoning. Vice Chair Raymond asked to get back to what they’d report to the CAC tomorrow. Chairman Roth asked where they wanted to take this committee going forward. January 11, 2023 6 Vice Chair Raymond said he didn’t see a need for the subcommittee. We just need to hear occasional updates from the staff members at this meeting today. A discussion ensued about dissolving the subcommittee and the following points were made:  A staff report could be added to the CAC agenda.  Staff could provide reports annually or every time there’s a hot topic.  It wouldn’t have to be a presentation but could be a written report.  The CAC would like to hear a presentation and have the ability to ask staff questions.  Staff also could provide an annual report on a hot topic.  The staff’s Water-Quality Report, which will be finished in April, could be presented to the full CAC.  Is there any need for the subcommittee?  The Executive Summary is nice on paper, but difficult to execute.  The subcommittee should be disbanded in favor of staff reports or presentations to the full CAC.  There’s a need for more frequent updates by staff so CAC members can report to the BCC information that staff may be reluctant to provide.  The subcommittee wants to create an interface with the Collier County Pollution Control Group to hear periodic updates about the county’s ongoing water-quality efforts.  The CAC could be an opportunity to be a pipeline to provide staff information/concerns to the BCC and advise commissioners.  Staff was asked to hear the 2021 and 2022 reports.  The role of a good advisory committee is to deliver information the BCC might not want to hear or that may be difficult to implement.  Staff can provide an annual report because monthly reports would only provide how many inspections or educational events took place. A discussion ensued over what county staff is working on and the following points were made:  Information on sucralose levels/testing would help the CAC.  Sucralose levels here were found to be high, except in areas with septic tanks, so it’s getting into surface waters. (Sucralose is often used to track water pollution.)  If it’s getting into the surface waters, it’s likely getting into coastal waters.  It’s uncertain if nitrogen had anything to do with it.  Staff received no money for sucralose monitoring last year because they switched to isotope analysis, which is very expensive.  A certain level of nitrates in water is needed to provide a sufficient isotope analysis; it wasn’t high enough for a legitimate isotope reading.  Harvey Harper had to do his testing in groundwater, not surface water, because it wasn’t high enough.  Marco Island hung their hat on that because they hired Jacobs Engineering to counter everything Harvey Harper said about re-use. They didn’t want to spend the money to prove there’s a connection between reuse and what’s being found in canals.  The CAC could recommend asking for legislative support to push that law at the state level. The Citizens Council is already working on an initiative on the new rule and legislation that’s under development.  There’s a Stormwater Management Rule update making its way through the process over the next six months; that rule hasn’t been updated since before 2010. It’s being fast-tracked.  The Legislature made it clear that any rule DEP writes must be clear so it can be made into law that meets the Legislature’s preferences. January 11, 2023 7  The environmental community feels it’s weak.  It includes language that says wetlands are a source of pollution, not a sink for pollution, which is an egregious statement.  This will be important for Collier and the state.  There was a meeting this morning with staff on this update.  It’s Florida Administrative Code 62-330, the Stormwater Rule, which ties into the individual permitting handbooks.  None of their proposed language will have any impact on existing permits, so everybody who has a Water Management District discharge permit can keep doing what they’re doing.  The only thing they’re trying to address is new permits, which won’t change what we have now.  There’s no verification once you’re given a permit for redevelopment. If you have a permit and it says, “By issuance of this permit, you are presumed to meet all state water quality standards,” there’s no verification. There’s a presumption of compliance.  Staff asked DEP staff’s opinion at both meetings about what will be the biggest fix to existing nutrient levels. Staff got no answer the first time and the second time they were told they’d answered the question the first time, so there’s no answer.  Everyone’s comments are listed on DEP’s website.  There’s discussion now about using wastewater as drinking water. We’re close to that. There’s nothing poisonous to your body about nitrogen and phosphorus, so the additional level of treatment they have to do to take wastewater and mix it with raw water to use for drinking water to further conserve raw water supplies is not much more than what’s getting sprayed on the ground.  The only criteria under the Department of Health is that the nitrogen level must be below 10 ppm because anything above that can hurt infants.  The mentality is that if it’s good enough to drink, it’s good enough to put on my lawn. It’s not.  It’s another way to hide re-use water as being acceptable because you can drink it. You should never compare surface-water standards to drinking-water standards.  If you are blending it with raw water, then you no longer have re-use. The subcommittee discussed what recommendations it would make to the CAC and made the following points:  The Executive Summary outline is too cumbersome for the subcommittee to implement.  Staff is a great resource that has been coming to subcommittee meetings. We’ve invited them to come to the full CAC meetings as experts to speak periodically about water quality; they agreed.  Staff will speak at least annually and on an as-needed basis and the CAC can bring information to the BCC.  Staff could provide a report when the rule-making process ends.  The Conservancy or Audubon can provide updates with information that staff can’t freely present.  The Florida Stormwater Association, Florida Association of Counties, all the Technical Advisory Committee members and some others signed a full letter that said DEP is not meeting what was requested of DEP under the Clean Waterways Act and it must do better.  The EPA can provide timelines for the DEP to complete tasks. The subcommittee discussed disbanding and made the following points:  This is the second subcommittee group.  The subcommittee is no longer needed.  These discussions would be better if they went before the full CAC. January 11, 2023 8  Ms. Turner agreed to call Chairman Trecker after this meeting to alert him about their recommendation.  The CAC chairman may still want to appoint another subcommittee. Mr. Christman made a motion to disband the CAC Water-Quality Subcommittee. Vice Chair Raymond seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously, 3-0. IX. Announcements None X. Committee Member Discussion None XI. Next Meeting Date/Location TBD There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the chair at 2:09 p.m. Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee Water-Quality Subcommittee ______________________________________ Bob Chairman Roth, Chairman These minutes were approved by the subcommittee/chairman on ________________, as presented (choose one) _______, or as amended ________.