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CLB Minutes 03/16/2022 March 16, 2022 MINUTES OF THE COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD MEETING March 16, 2022 Naples, Florida LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier County Contractors Licensing Board, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Administrative Building F, 3rd Floor, Collier County Government Center,Naples, Florida,with the following members present: Chair: Kyle Lantz Vice Chairman: Terry Jerulle Matthew Nolton Richard E. Joslin Patrick G. White Todd Allen Robert Meister III (excused) Elle Hunt Stephen Jaron ALSO PRESENT: Kevin Noell, Esq., Contractor Licensing Board Attorney Timothy Crotts, Contractor Licensing Supervisor Colleen Kerins, Assistant Collier County Attorney James Reynolds, Collier County Licensing Investigator Timothy Broughton, Collier County Licensing Investigator 1 March 16, 2022 Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of the proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim record of said proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which any appeal is to be made. 1. ROLL CALL: Chairman Kyle Lantz opened the meeting at 9:01 a.m. Roll call was taken; eight members were present in the BCC Chambers at roll call. [Board Member White arrived at 9:02 a.m. and participated in roll call.] Mr. Crotts said Board Member Robert Meister was unable to make it and asked that his absence be excused. 2. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: None 3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Vice Chairman Jerulle moved to approve the agenda.Board Member Nolton seconded the motion. It was carried unanimously, 8-0. 4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: A. Approval of Minutes for Feb. 16, 2022 Board Member White moved to approve the February 16, 2022 meeting minutes. Board Member Allen seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously, 8-0. 5. PUBLIC COMMENTS: None 6. DISCUSSION: None 7. REPORTS: None 8. NEW BUSINESS: A. ORDERS OF THE BOARD Board Member Joslin made a motion to have the Chairman sign the Orders of the Board. Board Member Nolton seconded the motion. The motion was carried unanimously, 8-0. The Orders of the Board were approved. 2 March 16, 2022 B. Humberto M. Sanchez—Creative Design General Contractors Inc.—Review of Credit Review of Experience Chairman Lantz called Mr. Sanchez to the podium and he was sworn in. Mr. Crotts reported that Mr. Sanchez submitted an application for the issuance of a specialty license of Underground Utility Contractor as part of the application process under County Ordinance 2006-46, Section 2.3.9. Mr. Sanchez was required to submit a personal credit report. While reviewing the personal credit report submitted by Mr. Sanchez, we had the following areas of concern: • His credit score is 630. The required minimum credit score under Financial Responsibility, Section 2.5.1 Subsection D, under Rule 61 G4-15.006,from the State of Florida, should be 660. • There was a $11,750 Suncoast Credit Union collection amount as of November 2021. However, Mr. Sanchez said he entered a payment plan with Suncoast Credit Union and is paying$461.34 monthly. As of December 1, 2021, he has paid back approximately $6,997, including a $1,000 payment on November 1, 2021. This leaves an approximate balance of$4,753. Using the current monthly payment amount, it would take about 10 months to pay off. Mr. Sanchez is being referred to the Board under Section 2.5.2, Referral of Application to the Contractors'Licensing Board for a Decision, and he is here to explain his credit issues. Chairman Lantz told Mr. Sanchez that it appeared he'd made a mistake with his credit and he's working on a payment plan and making payments. Mr. Sanchez said he was, and he hopes to pay off his debts so he can move on. Chairman Lantz said it appeared he's a victim of"too-little-credit," rather than bad credit. It's affected his credit score so much because he doesn't have much credit. Mr. Sanchez said he was involved in a divorce two or three years ago, which caused a lot of lawyer fees and other costs. Chairman Lantz asked if he has a general contractor's license. Mr. Sanchez said he didn't. Chairman Lantz asked if he'd taken the test. Mr. Sanchez said he did and wanted to come before the Board to make everything right. When his credit was 430, the CLB told him to withdraw his letter and apply as residential. He's trying to fix his credit to make everything right. Chairman Lantz noted that in the past, the CLB has had an issue if someone calls their business "general contractors" if they're not a general contractor because it implies that they are a general contractor. Is that an issue now?Do we still care about that? Mr. Crotts said the name tends to be kind of misleading. But if he's following the scope of the work for the license and he's not contracting outside the scope of what that license allows,then there's really nothing in the ordinance that stops anyone from naming themselves "general 3 March 16, 2022 contracting." He noted that there's a painter in the County who is a painter but lists himself as a general contractor. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked Attorney Noell if anything in the code contradicts that. Chairman Lantz asked if it covered advertising a business as a general contractor. Attorney Noell said he'd review it and check because there are freedom of speech issues and other implications on how you can market yourself Obviously, if you use words like "pool contractor" or something like that and you don't have that license, that's blatant or flagrant. But if you advertise "general contracting services" or something like that,he's not comfortable advising the Board on that without conducting more extensive research because there are potential constitutional issues. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked Mr. Sanchez why he had"general contractor" in his business name Mr. Sanchez said he intended to get that license, but that didn't happen when he came before the CLB the first time. He worked for Collier County for six years doing underground utilities. The CLB told him he needed to get more experience, so he decided to jump into utility contractor underground and then wait and get the general contractor license. Chairman Lantz asked if he'd already had that company name already set up. Mr. Sanchez said he set it up before he came to the CLB initially. Board Member Jaron asked if he did water line and sewer line work. Mr. Sanchez said he does potable water. Board Member Hunt said she noticed some of the documents say Creative Design General Contractors LLC and others say Creative Design General Contractors Inc. Are these two different companies? Mr. Sanchez said he initially set up as an LLC, then his CPA said to change it because it wasn't a big company. Everything was changed to "incorporated," including documentation with the IRS and banks. Board Member Allen noted that page 54 of the packet shows that was rejected by the state Division of Corporations. Mr. Sanchez said he submitted another and it's been fixed. Chairman Lantz asked if it was an LLC or Inc. now. Mr. Sanchez said it's incorporated. Board Member White said the statutes are pretty clear, at least with respect to the CLB, that a general contractor is clearly a different classification than the residential license we're talking about. Chairman Lantz said this is an underground utility license. Board Member White said that's not any one of them. His point is it's a term under the statutes. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he'd really like to hear from Attorney Noell on that issue next month. Attorney Noell said he can look into that, but the issue before the Board now is to review the experience for the approval of the license Mr. Sanchez applied for, regardless of what he named his business. That may be an enforcement issue down the road with the Contractor Licensing 4 March 16, 2022 Department making that decision during a formal investigation, if he is advertising to do work outside the scope of his license. In my opinion, at this juncture,that would be more of an enforcement issue in the future. What's before the Board now is an application for a particular license for approval. The Board probably shouldn't concern itself over what he calls himself right now. If it is improper,that would be an enforcement issue the Licensing Board could bring up. You are not approving something that's unlawful. You're approving the license he's applying for. Attorney Kerins said that under 22-201, Subsection 22,possible violations include misrepresenting any material fact to another person with the intent or for the purpose of engaging in a contracting business, soliciting business for an employer as a contractor, as an employee, regardless of financial consideration. It might behoove the applicant to reconsider some things moving forward, in terms of names, to prevent possible enforcement issues. Board Member Hunt noted that Mr. Sanchez created the company to manage a general- contracting license and the fact that he's changing the scope of it now is a concern. He's named it assuming he'd get a general contractor's license beforehand. Mr. Sanchez said he fully understands. When he came before the CLB the first time and was told to fix his credit, he was given the opportunity to withdraw his application. He didn't return right away because he took his time to prepare so he'd have a better opportunity this time. He admits he has money problems, but he needs to support his family. If he has to change his company name, he understands there's a process. His business involves doing services for property-management companies, such as picking up garbage and cleaning, very minor jobs. Right now, if it's a matter of a name and he has to change it, he will change it. But eventually he plans to get his general contractor license. Board Member White said he could work with the state Division of Corporations to amend the name or do a dba. It isn't a very complex or costly process. The naming issue should be his concern,to minimize the risk of putting the company at jeopardy of someone misunderstanding the scope of his business or being enticed into doing work outside the scope of the license he may get today. Mr. Sanchez said he totally understands. Changing his business name isn't a problem. He doesn't do promotions, advertising, Facebook, have a webpage or Instagram because he doesn't yet have a license. It's just word of mouth. He's surpassed a difficult situation, a divorce. He lost everything and he's trying to get out of it and do this the right way. When he came before the CLB before, his credit was much lower, 430 or 420, and the CLB told him to come back. That was almost 11/2 years ago and he doesn't want to have to leave and come back again because he needs to do something else. Board Member Allen asked Mr. Crotts if he had any recommendations. Mr. Crotts said he'd recommend that a 12-month probationary license be granted,that Mr. Sanchez provide staff with a six-month payment status report from Suncoast Credit Union showing that the payments are being made and on schedule; provide staff with a 12-month payment status report from Suncoast Credit Union; and an updated credit report showing an improved credit score. If Mr. Sanchez meets these requirements,the probationary status would be removed. Failure to meet these requirements would require Mr. Sanchez to appear back before the Board for reconsideration. Board Member Allen made a motion. 5 March 16, 2022 Board Member White seconded it. Chairman Lantz asked if there was any discussion. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked the Board if they were going to include the name change. We don't care about the name change. Board Member Allen said he was concerned about giving advice on a name change. They could just make a friendly recommendation on changing the name but it's not before the Board today. Mr. Sanchez said he appreciated their advice and if the name is a problem, he'd change it. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he planned to change the company name. Mr. Sanchez said he appreciated their advice and suggestions. If the problem is the name, he will change it. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he was going to change his name. Mr. Sanchez said he would. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he'd take his word on that. Board Member Joslin asked about the statement of ownership and who owned the other half of his business. Mr. Sanchez said his wife is in business with him and owns half. He got remarried six months ago. Board Member Allen made a motion to approve a 12-month probationary license and require Mr. Sanchez to provide a payment-status report from Suncoast Credit Union in six months and 12 months to show that payments are being made on schedule and provide an updated credit report showing an improved credit score. Board Member White seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously, 8-0. C. John Ricciardelli—Electrical Journeyman — Review of Experience Requirement as an Apprentice Chairman Lantz called Mr. Ricciardelli to the podium and he was sworn in. Mr. Crotts said that Mr. Ricciardelli has submitted an application for the issuance of a Journeyman Electrician, which requires four years as an apprentice. As part of the staff review process, the following verifications of experience were documented: • O'Neill Electric LLC, Clinton, N.Y., February 2021-December 2021, 10 months. Staff was unable to verify this information. • M&K Luxury Sales, Boston, Mass., 2018-2020, two years. Staff confirmed he worked approximately 12 jobs during that period, doing rough and minor electrical work • McEvoy Contracting Inc., Boston, Mass., 2018-2021. He worked on job sites as a subcontractor doing miscellaneous electrical jobs. The company owner could not remember how many jobs he worked or who he worked for as a subcontractor. Based upon the timeframes given, it appears that Mr. Ricciardelli has worked a total of three years and 10 months. However, this total time could not be verified. Based upon this information, it does not appear, on face value, that the applicant has met the 6 March 16, 2022 eligibility requirement for the Certificate of Competency. Therefore, Mr. Ricciardelli is here today under 2.5.2, Referral of the Applicant to the Contractors'Licensing Board for A Decision. Chairman Lantz asked if he wanted to explain his experience. Mr. Ricciardelli said he worked for Mike O'Neill in Clinton,NY, for 10-11 months when he was laid off from his state job in New York. Mr. O'Neill gave him an opportunity to work for him. He returned to the state to work full time after the 10 months but continued to work for Mr. O'Neill for many years on the side. He passed away a couple of years ago, so that's probably why staff couldn't verify the experience. He did everything from panel changes, generators, new construction, remodels, old work, new work, some commercial work. Chairman Lantz asked if he received a W2 from O'Neill or was it just cash? Mr. Ricciardelli said that for the 10-month period, he did. After that, it was just cash. In that area, you do not need a license to do that work, and he was working under him and also doing side jobs. Chairman Lantz asked why he wanted a Journeyman's Card. Mr. Ricciardelli said he hoped to take the business and law exam and move to an EC. His family moved here in April, and he got into food manufacturing, which does not make him happy. He would rather be in an attic pulling wire, running new switching on lights and crawl spaces than working in factories. Chairman Lantz asked what his experience was, residential, commercial, industrial, a little bit of everything? Mr. Ricciardelli said he would not say industrial,just residential and commercial. Chairman Lantz asked if it was single-phase, three-phase, both? Mr. Ricciardelli said all single phase. He did some work with three-phase, but not enough to make him comfortable enough to accept work on that. Chairman Lantz asked if there was anything on the Journeyman's Card that requires Phase-3 work. Mr. Crotts said there was nothing in the ordinance. For the Journeyman, it just shows that it requires four years as an apprentice. Chairman Lantz asked Mr. Crofts for his recommendation. Mr. Crotts said at this time, staff doesn't feel comfortable with issuing a license based upon the amount of time that's required. Staff would feel more comfortable if Mr. Ricciardelli came back and showed at least another 12 months' experience moving forward, based upon staff not being able to verify all the information submitted. Chairman Lantz asked when he last worked on a permitted job. Mr. Ricciardelli said it was in 2021 in Boston. But he's had countless praises from inspectors in New York, as well. He's done new construction homes by himself, homes that he wired alone. He got stickers because his work was so neat and tight that inspectors there trusted him. Keith Townsend was one. Chairman Lantz noted that the Journeyman License doesn't really allow him to do anything. It might get him a raise at a company he's working for, but it doesn't allow him to do anything on 7 March 16, 2022 his own. There are really not many Journeymen in this area. On the other coast, there's a lot more electrical Journeymen because they get a raise when they get a Journeyman's License. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if they'd be lowering the bar. Chairman Lantz said no. Board Member White asked if they'd be increasing the pool of potential employees in a market where they may be necessary. Chairman Lantz said it was his opinion that even though staff couldn't verify his experience, he believes he did the work based on his testimony. And if it's a risk factor, I don't think any of the residents of Collier County are at a big risk if somebody has a Journeyman Card or somebody doesn't have it. The hardest part about a Journeyman's License is the test. From what he was told, it's harder than the Electrical Contractor test. So, if you can pass a test and your experience is very questionable, I would probably err on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt. Board Member White said he believes the whole point of having a hearing is so we can inquire of the applicant under oath, give weight to his testimony and justify approval of some type of a license. Board Member Allen moved to approve the license with a 12-month probationary period. Chairman Lantz asked what the probation was for, to see if someone complained about him? Board Member Allen said if there's an issue that comes up. One of the concerns staff has is that he needs an additional 12 months. He believes his testimony that he has that experience, but we should provide the public with the protection of him being subjected to additional review if an issue comes up. Board Member Hunt said she'd also like to see full-time work as a Journeyman for those 12 months. If he only does odd jobs here and there, she didn't believe the 12-month period is valuable. Mr. Ricciardelli said his goal was to be an EC and to work for himself. If it's a Board decision that he find employment with a company, he could, but he wants to move forward. Board Member Hunt noted that the Board was just saying that a Journeyman can't work for himself. He'd have to work with somebody else to get a permit. He'd have to do that based on the license he applied for. Chairman Lantz asked if his goal is to be an EC, why is he applying for a Journeyman's License?If he wanted to follow the state route for an EC license, an EC doesn't require a Journeyman's Card. Mr. Ricciardelli said when he researched the applications on the website, it said he needed to be a Journeyman for X-amount of time before applying for the EC. So that's why he went that way. If he could have jumped right into the EC, he would have. He was just following directions. Chairman Lantz said it may have changed, but he believed the difference with the state route was that you had to show experience, maybe a year or two years, a certain amount of time, for three-phase work. You had to document three-phase work, so you might not be able to go that route if you don't have that documentation. It may have changed. He's an EC and he didn't get a journeyman's card. Mr. Ricciardelli said his goal is to become an EC and work for himself. He moved here to provide a better way of life for his family than what was going on in upstate New York. His goal 8 March 16, 2022 is to work for himself and provide a better life. He was working 70-80 hours a week. That isn't what he came here for. Chairman Lantz said the County requirements to be a registered Electric Contractor require that he has to have Journeyman's Card for a year or two. Attorney Kerins said 24 months. Mr. Crotts said 24 months or the equivalent. Board Member Joslin said that with his experience, why get a Journeyman's Card when he could just go to work for another electrical contractor who is licensed? Why not skip that? Mr. Ricciardelli said if he has to work for someone for two years to get a Journeyman's Card, he will. The goal is to be an EC and work for himself. This is how he understood he had to do it. Chairman Lantz told him there are two paths he could take, County or State. It's not the CLB's job to advise him, but if he does his homework, he will find out this isn't the best path. Board Member Allen said he'd amend his motion to require full-time employment, as Board Member Hunt suggested. Board Member Hunt seconded it. Chairman Lantz clarified that the motion includes one-year probation and employment under a licensed, certified electrical business. Mr. Crotts asked if they could amend that motion to say that for the last part of the requirement, the respondent must show staff that he has entered into employment as a full-time employee with an electrical company. Board Member Allen amended it. Board Member Hunt seconded it. Board Member White said that the intention is to show that to staff so he doesn't have to return to the Board and the license would move from a probationary period to full. Mr. Crotts clarified that was true and the probationary period would disappear if there were no issues. But the Board also could set a time period to fulfill that employment requirement. He'd leave that up to the Board's discretion, about how long they would give him to prove he found a job. If he didn't prove it, he'd have to come before the Board due to failure to prove it. Board Member Joslin asked how long they should give him to prove that. Mr. Crotts said he'd leave that up to the Board's discretion. Board Member White said they should ask Mr. Ricciardelli how long it would take to get a job. Mr. Ricciardelli said it might be easier to get a job if he had a card. Board Member White asked if could get a job in 30 days. Mr. Ricciardelli said he hoped so. He has a lot to support. Board Member Nolton said he can't pull permits or doing anything as a Journeyman. He can get a job and work for someone. He's proved he has the experience as a Journeyman. He has no problem moving forward and not making this complicated. Board Member White asked what is the challenge if you make it a temporary, 12-month license? What are the conditions you want to achieve? Chairman Lantz said as a Journeyman, the conditions are on the license. Board Member Nolton said he can't do any work without pulling a permit, so he's being supervised by the person with the license. 9 March 16, 2022 Chairman Lantz said you can't do anything with a journeyman's license. Board Member Allen said in that case, he'd withdraw his motion and just approve it. Board Member White seconded it. Board Member Hunt wanted to make sure he wasn't just taking small jobs during probation. She understood the motion removed the full-time employment requirement. Chairman Lantz said they removed that condition. If he goes the County route and tries to get an Electrical Contractor's License, his experience will be questioned by the Board then. Board Member White said he'd then have to show proof of full-time employment, Board Member Hunt's concern. Board Member Hunt said, exactly. Board Member Allen made a motion to approve a 12-month probationary Journeyman's License. Board Member White seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously, 8-0. D. Margarita Brodskaya—New Horizon Cabinetry Inc. — Cabinet Installation Contractor Review of Experience Chairman Lantz called Ms. Brodskaya to the podium and she was sworn in. Mr. Crotts said Ms. Brodskaya has submitted an application for the issuance of a Certificate of Competency for a Cabinet-Install Contractor, which requires 24 months'experience. As part of the staff review process, Ms. Brodskaya has submitted two verifications of experience by former employers. • Mascot Interiors, Brooklyn, NY. This company is closed and no work experience can be verified. • SWF Modern Renovations, May 2021-October 2021,five months. There was a resume submitted, but it showed the same employers. Therefore, based upon the information submitted by the applicant, it is staff's opinion that Ms. Brodskaya does not meet the experience requirement under Ordinance 2006-46, Section 1.6.3.5 for Cabinet-Install Contractor. Ms. Brodskaya is being referred to the Board under Section 2.5.2, Referral of the Application to the Contractors'Licensing Board for Decision. Board Member Nolton asked Mr. Crotts what can be done with that license. Mr. Crotts said she'd be qualified to manufacture, assemble, install, dismantle, maintain, adjust, alter, extend, design cabinets and millwork, and this permitted work is not limited to kitchen cabinets, bathroom cabinets, accessory cabinets, countertops, office furniture and millwork items that have been manufactured for installation on the jobsite locations. Board Member White noted that it's in the Agenda Packet, page 156. Chairman Lantz asked Ms. Brodskaya to detail her experience since it's not officially documented and convince the Board that she has the experience required for the license. Ms. Brodskaya said she and her husband moved here from New York a while back. Besides her 10 March 16, 2022 working for Mascot Interiors, she and her husband, who is here, had their own business in New York. He does custom cabinets, and they did installation. We designed cabinets and she ran the business. He's been in the cabinetry business since he came to the United States many, many years ago. After they moved to Florida, he worked for a cabinetry business, and they decided to open their own business. They are dealers for manufacturers, a few lines. We design. She designs herself and they work with customers and contractors. They've operated that business since 2013. They want to expand and be able to install, so they're applying for the license. Board Member Hunt noted that she's applying for the license, not her husband, so the Board needs to understand her personal experience. Ms. Brodskaya said that when they had a business in New York, they did installations. She supervised the projects. She helped. They had two employees. She helped her husband with installation. They worked with countertop businesses and she supervised those projects. Board Member Jaron asked who does the installs now? Ms. Brodskaya said they don't install now. They work with the contractors. Board Member Nolton said it appears they just provide designs and the cabinetry. Board Member White asked if her husband is an employee of any firm that does installations. Ms. Brodskaya said he worked for House of Cabinetry in Bonita Springs doing installations for seven years when they came to Florida. Chairman Lantz noted that she does designs but assisted with installations. If you had a 2020 drawing of cabinets, could you personally install them? Ms. Brodskaya said she probably could, although they're heavy cabinets. She knows the technique. Vice Chairman Jerulle reiterated that she does remodels and asked Mr. Crofts if this license will allow her to do new construction and remodeling. Mr. Crotts said that was correct. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if she went into a home to do remodeling in the kitchen, what does she do with electrical outlets in the backsplashes? Ms. Brodskaya said they hire electricians. Vice Chairman Jerulle pointed out that she can't hire electrical contractors. Ms. Brodskaya said she knew the rules and took the test. She works with the contractors, who do the hiring. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked how she'd handle the electrical and plumbing work. Ms. Brodskaya said the customer would have to hire those contractors. We cannot hire. Board Member White said that was correct. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if she had the recommended experience. Ms. Brodskaya said she does. Chairman Lantz noted that this came down the CLB's age-old debate, husband-and-wife teams. Board Member Joslin asked why her husband wasn't applying. Ms. Brodskaya said she has an MBA, so it was much easier for her to apply. 11 March 16, 2022 Board Member Nolton asked what the ownership of her company is. Ms. Brodskaya said it's 39% for her and 51% for him. Board Member White made a motion to grant the application for a Certificate of Competency for a Cabinet-Install Contractor. Board Member Joslin seconded the motion. The motion passed 6-2; Vice Chairman Jerulle and Board Member Hunt opposed. E. Fugang Zhou—Visio Signs LLC dba Signs Now—Electrical Sign Contractor Review of Experience Chairman Lantz called Mr. Zhou to the podium and he was sworn in. Board Member Allen said he would be abstaining from this vote because Mr. Zhou is an active client of his. Mr. Crotts said Mr. Zhou submitted an application for the issuance of a Certificate of Competency for Electrical-Sign Contractor, which requires 24 months'experience. He pointed out that Mr. Zhou has been a licensed Non-Electrical Sign Contractor for 11-plus years. As part of the staff review process, Mr. Zhou submitted three verifications of experience, who were contacted. • Bank of America, one job in 2017. Mr. Zhou supervised and worked on window and door lettering. • Signworks of Naples, 2008-2012. Mr. Zhou worked as a helper, not an employee. The company president said he assisted with approximately 10 projects over this four-year period. He said Mr. Zhou helped him, so he helped Mr. Zhou. • Al DeLeon &Associates Inc., an insurance agency, December 2014 to January 2015, about two months. Mr. Zhou replaced light bulbs in front and rear panels on their marquee signs. Based upon the information received and phone interviews with employers, it is staff's opinion that Mr. Zhou does not meet the requirements under Ordinance 2006-46 1.6.3.41 for an Electrical-Sign Contractor. Mr. Zhou is being referred to the Board under Section 2.5.2, Referral of the Application to the Contractors'Licensing Board for Decision. Chairman Lantz told Mr. Zhou it was his turn to present his case. Mr. Zhou said he graduated from OF with an engineering degree, so he dealt with a lot of electrical issues, but that was a long time ago. He started this business in 2008 and was managing IT stuff and decided to start his own company. He got a Non-Electrical License 11-plus years ago and he's learned the trades by working with many different people and businesses, such as Soundworks, which has an electrical company. He knows how to do things, but he doesn't necessarily do them himself He mostly supervises projects to ensure employees didn't make mistakes. The companies do the installation and permits, and he sells the electrical sign to the customer, electrical signs only. When they need help, he helps them. That's how the arrangement goes. He 12 March 16, 2022 chose not to get licensed years ago because there was no justification businesswise. He'd have to invest a lot of money to do that and read a stack of books. He didn't feel the need for it. He makes arrangements with other electric contractors. Recently, he was cited because paperwork wasn't done by the employer. They were told by the contractor,that if it was permitted and installed by his client, it would be fine. But apparently, it's not. We have to separate it into two work orders or invoices. People ask him to work with them on invoices. This became an issue because it's a$1,000 fine, which is fine with him, but he didn't want this to continue and become a more serious issue if someone made a mistake. He's not at office often, so he decided to become a contractor himself. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked about when he helps businesses, is he a sub-sub-contractor? Does he sub out? Mr. Zhou said they can't legitimately subcontract so they partner with a client. They would say that the permit will be pulled and installed by the client and his company does the rest. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he had a contract with the sign contractor. Mr. Zhou said they have an agreement, not really a contract. Chairman Lantz asked if it was a handshake deal. Vice Chairman Jerulle said an agreement is an agreement and a handshake is like a signed document. So, you're acting like a sub-contractor to install signs for companies? Mr. Zhou said he doesn't install signs. His company helps. One of the reasons is because he wants to learn the ins-and-outs of the business. When a client goes to install something, many times they can do it themselves. But if the client can't and needs a helper outside, such as if it's a big panel, his company helps them. He did it himself in the early days, but he has an employee to do it now. Board Member Nolton said it will come down to whether he gets paid when he helps. Vice Chairman Jerulle said that's a 1099. Board Member White said a subcontractor is a 1099, W2 is an employee. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he's not trying to trap him. He's trying to figure out what he's doing. The fact that he's not naming names probably is not helping him. If he has experience doing this and he's working for people in town, he should be naming them to show the CLB he has that experience. Mr. Zhou said the last one he was fined on was Southeast Sign Install because they had the license. The reason he didn't get a referral for the CLB from Southeast is because that company owner told him he's not happy he's going before the CLB to get this license because it's a competitive business and he'd be taking business away from Southeast. He had no intention of competing with them, but he's trying to prevent a potentially serious issue from occurring. If someone makes a paperwork mistake, he'll be fined, and he doesn't know how high that fine would be. That's why he wants to get licensed. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he appreciated that he's trying to fix this and asked Mr. Crafts to detail why he was fined. Board Member White said the citation is in the packet. 13 March 16, 2022 Mr. Crotts said he received a citation for operating as an Electrical-Sign Contractor. Board Member Nolton asked if he had a contract with that client on the project. Whoever you were selling signs to, you had the contract with them? So, then the licensed electrical sign contractor, did they have a contract with those same people, or did they work with you? Mr. Zhou said he was told by them that the contract said the permit and install would be done by them. They said that's OK. He's been doing jobs that way and apparently, that's not OK. Board Member Nolton asked if his contract said it would be done by them. Mr. Zhou said the contract said it would be permitted and installed by them. Board Member Nolton asked who paid them, would the customer pay them? You would pay them? Mr. Zhou said the client would get paid and he would get paid through that client/customer. Chairman Lantz asked if the customer was writing two checks. Mr. Zhou said there was sometimes one check, sometimes two. Chairman Lantz asked if he'd get a check and then write it to the customer. Mr. Zhou said he was told that was not OK, so they had to split the check. Now they split the check. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he was trying to get the license so that company wouldn't get involved. Mr. Zhou said no. He doesn't want to get into trouble again. That's why he doesn't want to name names. But he's potentially going to have to hire more people because that client is too busy, and he received feedback. They didn't get a good report with the clients because it's taking three weeks, four weeks and you cannot just constantly drag on. But his demand is too high, so we potentially will help onsite, but the majority are probably still going to go to him. Chairman Lantz asked who builds the signs. Mr. Zhou said building signs is not cost effective. They do manual jobs and just install signs. Chairman Lantz asked if he just buys the signs. Mr. Zhou said the customer buys the signs. They do it manually, but now they have machines to do it. Chairman Lantz asked if a signed contract is only allowed to go from the disconnect and they're not allowed to do any real wiring. Mr. Crotts said that was correct. After that, it requires an electrical contractor. Board Member Nolton said it's like putting a light in your house. Mr. Zhou said it's just like plugging in a coffee pot. They have to feed the wire to the point. Chairman Lantz asked if he needed 24 months' experience, how much of those 24 months has to be connecting the electric?A job could take six hours for the sign job, but only five minutes to hook up a wire. Board Member White noted they had a similar instance at last month's meeting. The electrical component is often a minor part of the job, not much time. The other part is being qualified to erect the sign. The electrical component seems to be very minor. You could work 24 months and say you have that experience, but erecting the sign is of greater concern and the CLB hasn't heard much detail on that. Can you tell us you're qualified? Mr. Zhou said they are very easy to erect. Nowadays, you just install a track and install and 14 March 16, 2022 secure it. Board Member White asked if he's done that for 24 months. Mr. Zhou said absolutely. It depends on how you calculate time. Board Member White asked if he routinely did that for 24 months. Mr. Zhou agreed he had over 14 years of experience if you add bits and pieces. He works with many sign companies. He didn't even ask some for a reference. Board Member White asked if he understood the process of what happens with his $1,000 citation if they approve this license? Mr. Zhou said he already paid that, it's not about the money. He doesn't want to get into trouble again and it's not about the money. Board Member White noted that if he'd gotten a license in a certain amount of time, it would have reduced the amount of the citation. Mr. Zhou said it took a lot of studying and books and he didn't pass the first time but passed the second time. Board Member White made a motion to grant the application for a Electrical Sign Contractor License. Board Member Hunt seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously, 7-0; Board Member Allen abstained. F. Mark E. Berkley—Homeaway Home Watch LLC—Swimming Pool Spa Servicing Review of Experience Chairman Lantz called Mr. Berkley to the podium and he was sworn in. Mr. Crotts said Mr. Berkley has submitted an application for the issuance of a Certificate of Competency for Swimming Pool-Spa Servicing Contractor, which requires 24 months' experience. As part of the staff review, Mr. Berkley submitted two verifications of experience. • Amy Berkley LLC. Research showed that this appears to be a real estate agent, not a licensed pool company with a license in the trade of swimming pool, spa servicing or any other swimming pool spa trade. Staff was unable to locate a phone number to verify the experience. • ACDC LLC. In a phone interview with the company owner, staff learned that ACDC is not a business in the trade of swimming pool spa servicing, but a wholesale distributor. The company owner said Mr. Berkley cleans her residential pool. During a phone interview with Mr. Berkley, staff confirmed that he is only cleaning residential pools at the two previously mentioned locations. He's been cleaning these two pools for some time. None of these companies are licensed pool companies, he has no experience from them, and his only experience is cleaning the two residential pools. Based upon the information received from Mr. Berkley, staff found that Mr. Berkley does not meet the experience required under Ordinance 2006-46, Section 1.6.2.9.1 for the trade of Swimming Pool-Spa Servicing Contractor. Mr. Berkley is being referred to the Board under Section 2.5.2, Referral of the Application to the Contractors'Licensing Board for a Decision. Chairman Lantz asked him to detail his experience. 15 March 16, 2022 Mr. Berkley said he started HomeAway Homewatch LLC last March. He hopes it will be his retirement job moving forward. That's what he does for the snowbirds, home-watch and pool cleaning services. In his mind, it's not contracting, but just pool cleaning services as part of his home-watch business. Chairman Lantz asked what he meant by pool cleaning. Mr. Berkley said he also does vacuuming and skimming, tests the water and adds chemicals. Chairman Lantz asked if he pulls out the filter to clean it. Mr. Berkley said on occasion he does. He was given contradicting information. He didn't believe he needed a license to clean pools, including occasionally cleaning a filter every four months or replacing it yearly. He was fined and someone told him he needed to take a test with GITS, Gainesville Independent Testing Service. GITS sent him a sheet about a 50-hour exam pertaining to pool maintenance or repair contractor for Florida construction credentialing. But it says a license is not required for cleaning a pool or spa in any way that doesn't affect the structural integrity of the pool or spa or associated equipment. It also states unless someone is partially disassembling, excluding filter changes, the installation of new pool spa equipment, interior refinishing, reinstallation, installation of pool heaters, repair, replacement, perimeter piping, filter piping, etc. He doesn't do any of that. So, he was confused about why he was fined. He paid it because he is similar to the last respondent. He also was told he should take the business procedures test, so he did and it took him three times to pass and by then,the timeframe had expired. So, he paid the fine because he didn't pass the test in time. He has since passed that business procedures test. All he's doing is a home-watch business and cleaning pools. He's not replacing heaters. He goes to Islander Pool on Marco Island, where he lives, and gives that business to them. He puts the homeowner directly in touch with Islander Pool and they pay Island Pool directly. He doesn't get involved other than just keeping an eye on it. If he knows there's a problem with the pool heater, he alerts the homeowner, makes a recommendation, asks them how they want to handle it and he puts them in touch with the appropriate company. Board Member Joslin asked if he'd ever worked for a pool company. Mr. Berkley he had never worked for a pool company. He's worked on pools forever for people who have rental properties. Both of the LLCs Mr. Crotts mentioned have rental properties, so he's taken care of those pools for years, but he just cleans them. That's why he started the home-watch business, because the two go hand-in-hand because he's at the house anyway, particularly during the summer off-season. Since he's there and it's not that difficult, he offers pool cleaning services, as well. Board Member Nolton said he was confused. Based on his explanation, does he actually want a license? It sounds like all you do is pool cleaning. Mr. Berkley said exactly. He got into this situation because he was fined and didn't understand why. So no, he's not really interested in a license per se because he didn't think he needed one to begin with. If he needs one, then he wants a license. He received contradictory information from GITS. 16 March 16, 2022 Board Member Joslin asked Mr. Crofts what the criteria is. Board Member White said it's on page 227 of the packet. Board Member Joslin said there's a difference between being a pool servicing contractor and a pool cleaning contractor. Mr. Crotts said a Pool and Spa Servicing Contractor requires 24 months of experience, with work that includes the servicing or water treatment of any private or public swimming pool, hot tub, spa subject to Section 40.487.0437 of the Florida Statutes, which may include the infusion of chlorine gas. But these contractors may also disassemble equipment permanently attached to association with effective pool and spa of the water treatment or cleaning of the pool and spa, which would include a filter. Board Member Nolton asked if just cleaning a pool requires a license. Mr. Crotts said the license comes in the minute you start adding any chemicals to the water. It's not required just to clean and scoop leaves out of it, but when you start adding chemicals or servicing the attached elements of the pool. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he had a pool at home. Mr. Berkley said he does. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he's been cleaning it for two years. Board Member White made a motion to approve. Vice Chairman Jerulle seconded it. Board Member Joslin said the license allows him to do more than just clean a pool. It allows residential and commercial installation. There is nothing that tells me he has the qualifications to take care of a commercial pool. That is a whole different animal. I'm a swimming pool contractor. Mr. Berkley said he's not doing any commercial pools and doesn't advertise that he does. Board Member White said the license says "or" not"either," so if he does either residential or commercial, he's qualified. He asked what would allow him to do what he's doing now without getting fined. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked Mr. Crotts if this is one of the licenses that may be going away in July of 2023. Mr. Crotts said this was the only swimming pool license that would go away in July 2023 because it is not a registered element. Board Member Nolton said there are contractors out there that have this license, right? And they've done what they have to do, they apply, they have a business and it's cleaning pools. So, are we penalizing them or taking something away from them in this situation? Board Member White asked, How so? Board Member Nolton said by allowing someone that really doesn't have those same qualifications to do work. Board Member White said he meets the exact qualifications of this license as described in this code. Board Member Nolton said OK. Board Member White says it doesn't say how many pools, how long or how often. Is he comfortable that he knows what the license allows him to do? Yes. Does he intend to go out and do something beyond the scope of the license?He didn't think so. And if he does, he's pretty sure 17 March 16, 2022 he knows that they're watching closely and not at all hesitant to issue citations. Board Member Joslin asked what pH he puts in his pools. Mr. Berkley said it's 80-120 ppm. Board Member Joslin asked what the limits are. Mr. Berkley said chlorine is 1-3, pH is 7.2-7.6. Board Member Joslin said it's 7.2-7.8. How do you change the alkalinity? Mr. Berkley said by adding acid. He adds it to the water itself, poured around the edge of the pool in the water. He doesn't add it to the skimmer. The only thing he adds to the skimmer is a stabilizer. You have the pH, and you're adding chlorine stabilizer, particularly when you have a lot of sun. This time of year, there's a lot of sun and a lot of evaporation with cool nights. Everything is added to the pool in one sense or another, some through the skimmer, some just as the chlorine. The acid is added in the same direct fashion as the chlorine, directly into the pool. If it's a saltwater pool,you add a 40-pound bag of salt. There's always a monitor checking the salt system. If it gets down to 2,700,that's when it needs salt. It should be between 2,700 and 3,400. I'm not going to say it's simple, but it's kind of simple if you just follow that. Board Member Joslin said OK. Chairman Lantz noted that they have a motion and a second. Any more discussion? Board Member White made a motion to grant the application for a Swimming Pool-Spa Servicing Contractor License. Vice Chairman Jerulle seconded the motion. The motion passed 7-1;Board Member Joslin opposed the motion. [The Board took a break at 10:18 a.m. and resumed the meeting at 10:30 a.m.] 9. OLD BUSINESS: A. Luis Patino—The Oasis Group of SWFL Inc. dba Oasis Renovations & Pools Review of Credit Chairman Lantz called Mr. Patino to the podium and he was sworn in. Mr. Crotts reported that Mr. Patino appeared before the Contractor Licensing Board on June 16, 2021, due to a review of his credit worthiness. After a review, the Board ordered that Mr. Patino be placed on a six-month probationary period and to come back before the Board to show proof of a payoff or a satisfactory close to all creditors'loans, and to supply an updated personal credit report. On February 2, 2022, Mr. Patino was contacted and was advised that he had not supplied any proof of the credit issues listed to the Board. At the CLB hearing on February 16, 2022, he did not appear, and his license was put into suspended status until he could show proof and appear before the Board. Mr. Patino is here today. He met with him to explain the seriousness of what needed to take place, and the information that he needs to provide to staff to show that he has met the June 16, 2021 Order of the Board. Unfortunately, Mr. Patino did not supply those documents until today, so he's been unable to review them. What would the Board like to do? 18 March 16, 2022 Board Member White asked Mr. Crotts if he believed it hadn't been satisfied or if needed more time. Mr. Crotts said they could leave the license on suspended status. He hasn't had a chance to review the documents. But it does appear that he's making an attempt. Board Member White said it wasn't Mr. Crotts' fault. Mr. Patino didn't submit it until today, and it's kind of unfair. He's just trying to be fair to everyone, including the Board. He asked Mr. Crotts' what his level of comfort was. Mr. Crotts said he'd like a chance to review it. Board Member Allen made a motion to table it until next month, so Mr. Crofts has sufficient time to review it. Board Member Nolton seconded it. Board Member White told Mr. Patino that there were some procedural options. It may be more appropriate for him to ask the CLB to withdraw it from the agenda and come back next month. He understood Mr. Patino wouldn't want to do that, but he probably wants to understand the context. Mr. Patino said he's been in business since 2010 and understands both positions. He asked if his license could be reinstated and then suspended next month. Board Member White said the process is simply to suggest to you that you need to weigh whether you want us to table it or if you'd be more comfortable asking for it to be withdrawn and reconsidered. Mr. Patino said he'd like to table it. Board Member White said it was the same difference. At this point, if staff is comfortable with that, to have it withdrawn, all we have to do is amend our agenda to have it withdrawn. Mr. Crotts said staff has no objection to having it withdrawn and put on next month's meeting agenda. Board Member White withdrew his earlier motion and amended it to withdraw the matter from the agenda and hear it next month. Board Member Allen withdrew his earlier second and seconded the new motion. Chairman Lantz asked if there was any discussion. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if Mr. Patino and his business had any open permits. Mr. Crotts said he hadn't checked, but his license has been suspended for the past 30 days, so he hasn't been able to pull any permits or enter into new contracts. Vice Chairman Jerulle asked if he could finish any open business. Mr. Crotts said apparently, no. Vice Chairman Jerulle said there may be people out there who may be in the middle of having a pool dug and will have to wait. Mr. Patino said he might have some resurfacings that may have to be closed out. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he's worried about the clients having to wait for work to be completed. Mr. Crotts said until he can do a good verification with the information received from Mr. Patino, he can only say that the credit score supplied, which was done in February, is still below the required minimum. 19 March 16, 2022 Board Member White made a motion to amend the agenda to withdraw the Review of Credit for Luis Patino and Oasis Renovations & Pools and put it on next month's agenda. Board Member Allen seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously, 8-0. The agenda was amended. Board Member White told Mr. Patino that most boards require respondents to submit information at least two weeks before a hearing, sometimes a week. Mr. Patino said he was waiting for creditors to send him the letters. 10. PUBLIC HEARINGS: A. 2022-02 —Kenneth D. Carter dba Carter Fence Company Inc. (CEMIS20220000242) B. 2022-03—Kenneth D. Carter dba Carter Fence Company Inc. (CEMIS20220000241) Chairman Lantz called Mr. Carter to the podium and he was sworn in. Board Member White asked if both could be heard together. Mr. Crotts said staff had no problem with hearing both. Vice Chairman Jerulle disclosed that Mr. Carter had done work for his company in the past, but it wouldn't affect his vote. Chairman Lantz said he believed they should all go through any conflicts since they all knew him or had business with him. Board Member Jaron said he also works with Mr. Carter. Attorney Noell asked if any of them had current contracts, would the decision affect them? Board Member Jaron said it would not affect his vote. Chairman Lantz said Mr. Carter is his neighbor, but that won't affect his vote. Attorney Noel told the Board that page 245 of the packet details the ranges of discipline if they find Mr. Carter in violation. He said that could affect current contracts or finances of their businesses, their current contracts, or themselves financially. Board Member Jaron said he has construction fence contracts with Mr. Carter, but he didn't believe that they'd be affected unless Carter Fence was totally shut down. Attorney Noell said that was a potential under those penalties and advised him to err on the side of abstaining. Board Member Jaron said he'd abstain. Attorney Noell asked if any other Board members had conflicts. The standard is whether you personally or your business or relative have a financial interest, a special, private interest, either as a business or personally, that the decision you make here today would benefit you or be a detriment or a harm to you. Board Member White said no, but he wanted to be transparent and disclosed that a few years ago, when he was HOA president, the HOA hired Carter Fence and he finished the job. Board Member Joslin said he's known him for 40 years through business and personal matters. There were no personal or private interests. [Collier County Investigators Reynolds and Broughton were sworn in.] Chairman Lantz asked for a motion to open the hearing. 20 March 16, 2022 Board Member White made a motion to open the hearing and to combine the two matters. Board member Joslin seconded it. The motion passed unanimously, 7-0; Board Member Jaron abstained. Investigator Reynolds asked to submit the Preamble and Case Packets, 2022-02 and 2022-03, into evidence. Board Member White made a motion to accept the Preamble and Case Packets as evidence. Board Member Nolton seconded the motion. The motion was carried unanimously, 7-0; Board Member Jaron abstained. The preamble and case packet were accepted into evidence. 10A. Investigator Reynolds said he had a brief opening statement. The respondent, Kenneth Carter, a licensed county fence contractor with Issuance No. 11475, is the qualifier and owner of Carter Fence Company Inc. and Carter Fence Co. Inc. Contractors. He received payment and performed the scope of work for a fence installation at 340 Mamie St., Chokoloskee, without an issued permit, when one was required on January 7, 2022. Mr. Carter is in violation of Collier County Ordinance 2006-46, Section 22-201, Part 18, which states, in pertinent part, that it is misconduct for a holder of a Collier County Certificate of Competency to proceed on any job without obtaining applicable permits or inspections from the City Building or Zoning Division or the Collier County Building Review and Permitting Department. 10B. Investigator Broughton said the respondent, Kenneth David Carter, a Collier County licensed fence contractor with Issuance No. 11475, is the qualifier for and owner of Carter Fence Company Inc. Mr. Carter contracted with the property owner and received payment for a fence installation at 53 Silver Oak Circle,Naples. The fence installation commenced without a permit, when one was required. Mr. Carter is in violation of Code of Laws and Ordinances of Collier County, Ordinance 2006-46, Section 22-201.18,which states, in pertinent part, that it is misconduct by the holder of a Collier County Certificate of Competency to proceed on any job without obtaining applicable permits or inspections from the City Building and Zoning Division or the County Building Review and Permitting Department. Chairman Lantz asked Mr. Carter if he had an opening statement. Mr. Carter said he's the owner and president of Carter Fence Company. We've been in business since 1989 and have served the community for 32 years. Since our inception, we have been known as a reputable company that conducts business accordingly, adhering to all local, state, and federal ordinances. Since 2016, we have executed between 150 and 200 permits annually, in just Collier County. Since 2011, we have had four citations, which were all settled and abated for lack of a permit. The two most recent issues involve Chokoloskee, Silver Oaks and Vineyards, and brought him before the Board today. Both issues were mistakes made without any ill intent. For Silver Oaks, it was an error involving submitting for a permit. The homeowner told us that he didn't have permits for the last two dumpsters he did. He did not need a permit and he told a woman in his office that the HOA had approved it. He didn't have a permit for his slabs and he didn't permit the other two dumpsters. 21 March 16, 2022 Unfortunately, that was revealed to our salesman, he put it in, waiting for homeowner approval, and we never did pull a permit. For the Chokoloskee installation, we had applied for the permit and was awaiting permitting approval. It was held up because the woman in permitting (he believed it was Christine Willoughby) thought that there were two gates to enter the property and felt that it could be used as a storage lot. That was not the homeowner's intention. It held up the permit a little longer, and while his permit employee was on vacation, we went and started the job prior to the permit being approved. Unfortunately,that was a day Investigator Reynolds was down at the end of Chokoloskee and his crew working were stopped and he (Reynolds) stopped the job. Our intent has never been to defy any ordinance. Since my mistake, we have internally added to our permitting department, changed our internal approval-submitting process, and have continued to work on any outstanding permits that need to be closed. I'm asking for some consideration for these permit issues. They were mistakes and not conducted with any ill intent and I have learned from my mistakes and am making amends, both internally and externally. Board Member White asked if the county had anything more. Mr. Chairman, it seems the respondent's testimony shows we have an admission of guilt. Mr. Crotts said staff considers that the investigators' opening statements carry the burden of proof and with Mr. Carter's admission, the County has nothing further. Board Member White made a motion for a finding of guilt in 2022-02 and 2022-03. Board member Nolton seconded it. The motion passed unanimously, 7-0; Board Member Jaron abstained. Attorney Noell said the Board will move on to the penalty phase, page 245 and 293 of the Agenda Packet, which are identical. [Page 245 was put on the visualizer to show the range of sanctions that may be imposed.] When the Board considers the different level of sanctions, the Board can consider a number of factors: • the weight of the evidence and the gravity of the violation; • the impact of the violation on public health, welfare and safety; • any actions taken by the violator to correct the violation; • any previous violations committed; • and any other evidence presented at the hearing that's relevant to the sanctions that are appropriate in this case, given the nature of the violation. Chairman Lantz asked if Mr. Crofts had any recommendations for restitution. Mr. Crotts said no restitution was involved. Chairman Lantz asked for a motion to close the hearing. Board Member White made a motion to close the public hearing. Board Member Allen 22 March 16, 2022 seconded it. The motion carried unanimously, 7-0; Board Member Jaron abstained. Chairman Lantz asked if he (CLB Attorney Noell) could advise them on the possible sanctions. Attorney Noell said they were on pages 245 and 293 of the Agenda Packet. The full range could be $10,000 for the first violation and $10,000 for the second violation. It is brought as not a second or third offense, but that range is set forward, so each maximum penalty set forth on those pages could be provided for each of the two violations. Board Member White asked with regards to probation or anything like it,they could be consecutive or concurrent? Attorney Noell said they could. Board Member Nolton noted that Mr. Carter was here a while back, his license was in good standing, and he had four violations in the past. Can you tell us more about that? Mr. Crotts said that he was brought before the Board in April 2021 and found guilty of working without a permit. The disciplinary action was 12 months of probation. He's still on probation and it will expire on April 21, 2021. Chairman Lantz asked for Mr. Crotts' recommendation. Mr. Crotts said Mr. Carter has complied with all orders by the Board. Prior to today, he met with me two times to discuss what measures are needed moving forward to ensure incidents like this won't occur again. He told staff that he has added additional personnel to help monitor the process and he understands the seriousness of the issue and what future consequences could be for his license. Staff recommends a$2,000 fine to be paid within 90 days for 2022-02. Failure to pay within the 90- day period will result in the automatic revocation of the respondent's license. The respondent's license shall be placed on probation for one year,to run concurrent with the probation imposed on April 21, 2021. This probation would end on March 16, 2023. Also, note that the permit for this offense was completed and"finaled." For the second violation, 2022-03, staff asks for a $2,000 fine to be paid within 90 days. Failure to pay within the 90-day period will result in the automatic revocation of the respondent's license. The respondent's license shall be placed on probation for one year, to run concurrent with the probation imposed on April 21, 2021. This probation would end on March 16, 2023. The permit for this violation was completed and "finaled." Chairman Lantz asked if the Board had any questions. Board Member White said appreciates the staffs investigation. He's absolutely certain that Carter Fence could pay these fines without missing its profit margins. So, for those reasons, it's also unnecessary in terms of the amount. He asked to adopt the County recommendations and impose a $500 fine so it's $1,000 total,to be paid within 90 days and one-year concurrent probation. Chairman Lantz said he wanted to clarify that, so if he already had a citation for doing work without a permit, the first offense would be $1,000, a second offense would be $2,000. And you're recommending $500? Board Member White said he was. He didn't believe that the dollar amount is going to change anything. From a compliance perspective, what was desired was that we heard a recognition of responsibility and admission of that guilt. There was a degree of contrition, and more important than 23 March 16, 2022 either of those two aspects, there's a recognition that after what happened a year ago in April and what happened again with these two cases, something different needed to be done in the administration of the business, which was the point that the Board intended to make last April. What he wants to do is recognize that and make the respondent be aware that what he's done is appreciated. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he was confused. For any other contractor that would come in front of the Board who doesn't know as many people as Mr. Carter does—and he's on probation and has these offenses—would we be lowering the fine? Board Member White said he can tell you, by history,that the Board hasn't since he's been on the Board. He told Mr. Carter he's really disappointed in him because he heard the same thing from him last April and now he's on probation. The difference is that there were no changes offered or anticipated to be made about how their internal procedures work. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he did say he was going to hire more people last year, if you look at the meeting minutes. He said he's disappointed that that we're here again. Something has to change, Mr. Carter. You're either taking on too much work for the size of your company or you need to delegate somebody to do something better. But we're going to be here again next year. Board Member White said we don't have to be. Vice Chairman Jerulle said we don't. We can take his license away and make sure we're not here, not that I'm suggesting that Mr. Carter, but something has to change. He said he was irritated by Mr. White's suggestion that the Board should reward someone by lowering the fine. Board Member White said they're not rewarding anyone. He's still paying a fine. They just have a difference of opinion on whether there's value in the amount of the fine. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he believed that if anyone else were before the Board, we wouldn't be considering lowering the fine. Some of us would be considering raising the fine. Board Member White said when they talk about raising or lowering, it's anywhere from zero to $10,000. So, you're talking about an arbitrarily determined number on the part of staff. The point is $4,000 won't change his bottom line. Vice Chairman Jerulle said they should make it $10,000. Or maybe $20,000 would get his attention. He was here last year and he's on probation. Board Member White noted that he'd be on probation for another year. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he didn't agree with his opinion and didn't want to debate it. Board Member White said they'd agree to disagree. Chairman Lantz asked if there was any more discussion. Board Member Nolton asked if Mr. Carter had anything to say. Mr. Carter said he did take action when he found out about the first incident. He called right away to find out what they could do to rectify it. It took a week. He presented it to somebody higher up to find out if this really required a permit and they determined it did. We had already applied for a permit. We already were doing everything we could to correct it. We corrected it immediately. The same thing with the other incident. When I came before the Board last time, my first fine was $2,000. It wasn't $500 and it was for the first time I've been in front of the CLB in his lifetime. He's just asking for a little bit of leniency for being a contractor for 32 years with no complaints involving quality of work. There's no consideration for that here and there was not the last time, as well. Vice Chairman Jerulle said there's definitely consideration. We could be taking your license, and nobody is even suggesting that or even considering that. If you were a different contractor who didn't 24 March 16, 2022 know as many people on the Board, he believed the Board would be taking a different approach. He's just trying to get the people on the Board to understand we should be treating everybody the same. They have an obligation to the County to treat people the same, to be consistent. We're not being consistent. That's his point. Chairman Lantz said there has been no consideration. That was only Board Member White's suggestion and no one else on the Board has agreed. Board Member White said it's based on the criteria the Board is supposed to evaluate. He looked at each one of those: gravity, harm to the public, what was being done by the respondent. All those things must be weighed in favor of a lesser fine, not the same as recommended, or greater. He contended he's not lenient, as his record will show, but the point is are we supposed to penalize? When someone takes the steps to do what they're supposed to do, get in compliance, and change their behavior at the company level, isn't that something that is appropriate to recognize?It's not rewarding in any way. Board Member Allen said he didn't disagree. But the whole point is to change behavior and we're not seeing changed behavior. He believed Vice Chairman Jerulle's point that if it were anybody else, we would have thrown the book at them. Board Member White said that's where they were last year. Board Member Nolton said he agreed with that. If it was a$2,000 fine last time, he assumes there were two counts and it was $1,000 per count. He didn't look, but that's what he's guessing, so this would be the second and third violation, so it would be normally a$2,000 fine, which the County is recommending. That would be in line with what we've done in the past. Obviously, we could go greater than that or less than that. Mr. Carter, it has nothing to do with knowing you. It has to do with being in business. He appreciates that he's been in business as long as he has and he's pulled thousands of permits. But the fact is, you did something you shouldn't have done and you know you did it. You admitted to it and you're here on probation. I know last time you were here we told you to fix this and don't let this happen again. You're on probation. Chairman Lantz said that when someone messes up on probation,they have to pay a price. If we put somebody on probation, probation has to mean something. If he were on probation, he'd be walking on eggshells. He noted that he's had employees on criminal probation and they're always afraid they're going to get into trouble. So, the standard is much higher when someone is on probation. We expect 100% compliance. He knows one or two things could slip through, but when you're on probation,you should be making sure that those things don't slip through. Board Member White told the Chairman and Board that he didn't disagree with anything they were saying. But the difference in this case is the circumstances. He saw it on the agenda and thought Mr. Carter probably hired a lawyer. He's worked it out with the County and we're going to have something put on the record that the County recommended. He thought it would all be worked out, but what happened?Mr. Carter came in with a prepared statement, having thought through what it would be that we would want and expect to hear, and that's exactly what he heard. That's exactly what we would want from any respondent. He did not go the distance to hire a lawyer. This is the perfect respondent where it makes some degree of sense to give him what he's asking for, in terms of leniency, not from the perspective of whether$1,500 is going to change his life. But rather, what is the message we're sending someone out there who is going to put themselves in a situation similar to Mr. Carter? It's not appropriate to penalize. There are times when it's absolutely appropriate to whack somebody as hard as we can. This is not the person. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he doesn't know Mr. Carter, but he knows his business. He's worked for him in the past with no problem and he believes he does pull his permits. He's one of the better 25 March 16, 2022 contractors in town. But he said he won't vote for a lower fine. Chairman Lantz asked if anyone wanted to second the motion. Mr. Carter said in his defense, he'd like to ask Mr. Crofts to tell the Board how much Carter Fence is being proactive, with him coming to see Mr. Crofts and asking what his company could do to improve, so this process doesn't happen again. He knows our intentions are sincere, that we don't intend on doing this again. This wasn't maliciously trying to not get a permit to make a little extra money and harm somebody. There was no harm intended. Vice Chairman Jerulle said he's not speaking for the Board, but he didn't think there was any malicious intent or harm. It's just something that happened within your company, a company you're in control of It happened a year ago, you're on probation and it happened again. He's disappointed that he's here again because he believes he's better than that. Board Member Nolton noted that Mr. Crofts understands what he's doing and recommended a $2,000 fine on each count, which could be considered lenient, and one year of probation. He noted that making probation concurrent also could be considered lenient. Board Member Joslin said he's known Mr. Carter for 40 years. He agreed with Mr. White that the fine wasn't as important as probation. Under the circumstances and knowing Mr. Carter for all these years, he knows he's a very good-hearted person. He does things as best he can. When you become the size that his company has in the past 10 years, when it grew to be phenomenally huge,they're going to have bases that are missed. That's not right, and he shouldn't have done this. But there were also some implications that he mentioned, staff measures, and some questions on whether it needed a permit, whether it didn't, and who said what. We've got some things that are out there that are that are still questionable. But under the circumstances, he agrees the Board should show some leniency. If there's another fine, it's not going to hurt the company. A $5,000 fine won't hurt the company. What we want to do is get it back on track so this doesn't happen anymore. With another year of probation,that's going to definitely wake him up so it won't ever occur again. Board Member White said that to reinforce the point that Board Member Joslin is making, his philosophy is that he will get 12 months of probation and all he's got to do is screw up once and he'll come back in front of the Board. We're going to drop the hammer on him. There's no doubt he knows that and that's why he's here today without legal representation. The point is to be consistent, not be consistent with what we did before, but to treat each and every case individually, consistent with what the law requires, and the facts represent. Attorney Noell reminded the Board to consider the following factors when arriving at the appropriate level of penalty: • the gravity of the violation • the impact of the violation on the public's health, welfare, and safety • any actions taken by the violator to correct the violations • any previous violations committed • any other evidence presented at the hearing that's relevant to the sanctions that are appropriate to the case, given the nature of the violations. 26 March 16, 2022 Chairman Lantz noted that there are some questionable circumstances about whether a permit was required or not. But he'd say if anybody knows the law, Mr. Carter knows if the permit was required because he's pulled thousands of permits. Board Member White asked the Chairman to be realistic. In his experience in dealing with Carter Fence Company, it became very clear that the internal processes of what was going on in the office at the administrative level and working with the county was to some degree not as connected as what was going on out in the field, both in terms of timing, to some degree the scope of the job and writing down the level of what the building officials specifically expected and required in order to issue the permit. Mr. Carter has been here two times and based on those experiences with us, and the attitude he's heard from us, the message has resonated to the degree where my expectation is if he asked him the direct question, "Is there any way that someone will start work without having confirmed with the office that a permit has been issued?" He's hoping the answer is, "Absolutely, positively, 100% of the time. Yes, we will not start a job unless the field crew has confirmed with the office in some regard that a permit has been issued."And if it hasn't done that,the County will find out within the next 12 months and he's going to be back before the Board. He needs to understand we'd drop the hammer. By showing a degree of leniency today, he'll be in the position next time to be a hammer. Chairman Lantz asked if there were any more questions and called for a vote. The vote failed 3-4;Board Member Jaron abstained. Board Member White made a motion to order the Respondent to pay a $2,000 fine on each count within 90 days and if it's not paid within 90 days, his license will be revoked; he will be placed on one year's probation, until March 16, 2023. Vice Chairman Jerulle seconded it. The motion passed, 6-1; Board Member Joslin voted nay and Board Member Jaron abstained. Chairman Lantz said the Board can now move onto findings of fact. Upon consideration of all testimony received under oath, evidence received, and arguments presented by the parties during the public hearing, the Board issues the following findings and conclusions: • Service of the amended Administrative Complaint and notice was legal, sufficiently provided and in compliance with the applicable law. • The Respondent is the holder of the license set forth in the Administrative Complaint. • The Respondent was present at the hearing and was represented by counsel. • The Respondent is a license holder as set forth in the Administrative Complaint. • The Board has jurisdiction over the Respondent and subject matter raised in the Administrative Complaint. The Respondent committed the violations as set forth in Count 1 for Case 2022-02 and Case 2022-03: This concludes the order of the Board in this matter. 11. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY,April 20, 2022 Commissioners' Chambers, Third Floor, 27 March 16, 2022 Administrative Building F, Collier County Government Center, 3299 E. Tamiami Trail, Naples, FL Board Member White made a motion to adjourn. Board Member Joslin seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously, 8-0. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned at 11:17 a.m. Collier County Contractors' Licensing Board Kyle Lantz, Board Chairman These minutes were approved by the Chairman or Vice-Chairman of the Contractors'Licensing Board on Li-020-g , (check one) as submitted or as amended V 28 FORM 8B MEMORANDUM OF VOTING CONFLICT FOR COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, AND OTHER LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICERS LAST NAME—FIRST NAME—MIDDLE NAME NAME OF BOARD,COUNCIL,COMMISSION,AUTHORITY,OR COMMITTEE Allen, Todd B. Collier County Contractor Licensing Board MAILING ADDRESS THE BOARD,COUNCIL,COMMISSION,AUTHORITY OR COMMITTEE ON 14995 Savannah Drive WHICH I SERVE IS A UNIT OF: CITY COU i]CITY II.COUNTY ❑OTHER LOCAL AGENCY Naples, FL 34109 Collier NAME OF POLITICAL SUBDIVISION: DATE ON WHICH VOTE OCCURRED Collier County March 16,2022 MY POSITION IS: ❑ ELECTIVE LK APPOINTIVE WHO MUST FILE FORM 8B This form is for use by any person serving at the county, city, or other local level of government on an appointed or elected board, council, commission, authority,or committee. It applies to members of advisory and non-advisory bodies who are presented with a voting conflict of interest under Section 112.3143, Florida Statutes. Your responsibilities under the law when faced with voting on a measure in which you have a conflict of interest will vary greatly depending on whether you hold an elective or appointive position. For this reason, please pay close attention to the instructions on this form before completing and filing the form. INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 112.3143, FLORIDA STATUTES A person holding elective or appointive county, municipal, or other local public office MUST ABSTAIN from voting on a measure which would inure to his or her special private gain or loss. Each elected or appointed local officer also MUST ABSTAIN from knowingly voting on a measure which would inure to the special gain or loss of a principal(other than a government agency) by whom he or she is retained (including the parent, subsidiary, or sibling organization of a principal by which he or she is retained);to the special private gain or loss of a relative; or to the special private gain or loss of a business associate.Commissioners of community redevelopment agencies(CRAs)under Sec. 163.356 or 163.357, F.S., and officers of independent special tax districts elected on a one-acre, one-vote basis are not prohibited from voting in that capacity. For purposes of this law, a "relative" includes only the officer's father, mother, son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, and daughter-in-law.A"business associate" means any person or entity engaged in or carrying on a business enterprise with the officer as a partner,joint venturer, coowner of property, or corporate shareholder(where the shares of the corporation are not listed on any national or regional stock exchange). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ELECTED OFFICERS: In addition to abstaining from voting in the situations described above, you must disclose the conflict: PRIOR TO THE VOTE BEING TAKEN by publicly stating to the assembly the nature of your interest in the measure on which you are abstaining from voting; and WITHIN 15 DAYS AFTER THE VOTE OCCURS by completing and filing this form with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting,who should incorporate the form in the minutes. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * APPOINTED OFFICERS: Although you must abstain from voting in the situations described above, you are not prohibited by Section 112.3143 from otherwise participating in these matters. However, you must disclose the nature of the conflict before making any attempt to influence the decision, whether orally or in writing and whether made by you or at your direction. IF YOU INTEND TO MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION PRIOR TO THE MEETING AT WHICH THE VOTE WILL BE TAKEN: • You must complete and file this form(before making any attempt to influence the decision)with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting,who will incorporate the form in the minutes. (Continued on page 2) CE FORM 8B-EFF.11/2013 PAGE 1 Adopted by reference in Rule 34-7.010(1)(f),F.A.C. APPOINTED OFFICERS (continued) • A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the agency. • The form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed. IF YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION EXCEPT BY DISCUSSION AT THE MEETING: • You must disclose orally the nature of your conflict in the measure before participating. • You must complete the form and file it within 15 days after the vote occurs with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting,who must incorporate the form in the minutes.A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the agency, and the form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed. DISCLOSURE OF LOCAL OFFICER'S INTEREST I Todd B. Allen hereby disclose that on March 16, 20 • 22 (a)A measure came or will come before my agency which(check one or more) inured to my special private gain or loss; inured to the special gain or loss of my business associate, . _ inured to the special gain or loss of my relative, , inured to the special gain or loss of Fugang Zhou by whom I am retained: or inured to the special gain or loss of ,which is the parent subsidiary, or sibling organization or subsidiary of a principal which has retained me. (b)The measure before my agency and the nature of my conflicting interest in the measure is as follows: Mr. Zhou is a current client of my law practice. While my representation of Mr. Zhou is not directly related to the matter before the Contractor Licensing Board, I felt it was prudent for me to abstain from voting on any matter related to Mr. Zhou. If disclosure of specific information would violate confidentiality or privilege pursuant to law or rules governing attorneys, a public officer, who is also an attorney, may comply with the disclosure requirements of this section by disclosing the nature of the interest in such a way as to provide the public with notice of the conflict. March 21,2022 Date Filed Sig ure NOTICE: UNDER PROVISIONS OF FLORIDA STATUTES §112.317, A FAILURE TO MAKE ANY REQUIRED DISCLOSURE CONSTITUTES GROUNDS FOR AND MAY BE PUNISHED BY ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: IMPEACHMENT, REMOVAL OR SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT, DEMOTION, REDUCTION IN SALARY, REPRIMAND, OR A CIVIL PENALTY NOT TO EXCEED$10,000. CE FORM SB-EFF.11/2013 PAGE 2 Adopted by reference in Rule 34.7.010(1)(f),F.A.C. FORM 8B MEMORANDUM OF VOTING CONFLICT FOR COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, AND OTHER LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICERS LAST NAME-FIRST NAME-MIDDLE NAME NAME OF BOARD,COUNCIL,COMMISSION,AUTHORITY,OR COMMITTEE Jaron, Stephen Michael Contractors Licensing Board MAILING ADDRESS THE BOARD,COUNCIL,COMMISSION,AUTHORITY OR COMMITTEE ON 3361 Lakeview Drive WHICH I SERVE ISA UNIT OF. CITY COUNTY 0 CITY 'COUNTY 0 OTHER LOCAL AGENCY Naples Collier NAME OF POLITICAL SUBDIVISION: DATE ON WHICH VOTE OCCURRED District 4, East Naples 3/16/2022 MY POSITION IS ❑ ELECTIVE d APPOINTIVE WHO MUST FILE FORM 8B This form is for use by any person serving at the county, city, or other local level of government on an appointed or elected board, council, commission, authority, or committee. It applies to members of advisory and non-advisory bodies who are presented with a voting conflict of interest under Section 112.3143, Florida Statutes. Your responsibilities under the law when faced with voting on a measure in which you have a conflict of interest will vary greatly depending on whether you hold an elective or appointive position. For this reason, please pay close attention to the instructions on this form before completing and filing the form. INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 112.3143, FLORIDA STATUTES A person holding elective or appointive county, municipal, or other local public office MUST ABSTAIN from voting on a measure which would inure to his or her special private gain or loss. Each elected or appointed local officer also MUST ABSTAIN from knowingly voting on a measure which would inure to the special gain or loss of a principal (other than a government agency) by whom he or she is retained (including the parent, subsidiary, or sibling organization of a principal by which he or she is retained);to the special private gain or loss of a relative;or to the special private gain or loss of a business associate.Commissioners of community redevelopment agencies(CRAs)under Sec. 163.356 or 163.357, F.S., and officers of independent special tax districts elected on a one-acre, one-vote basis are not prohibited from voting in that capacity. For purposes of this law, a "relative" includes only the officer's father, mother, son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, and daughter-in-law. A"business associate" means any person or entity engaged in or carrying on a business enterprise with the officer as a partner,joint venturer, coowner of property, or corporate shareholder (where the shares of the corporation are not listed on any national or regional stock exchange). * * * * * * * * * * * ELECTED OFFICERS: In addition to abstaining from voting in the situations described above, you must disclose the conflict: PRIOR TO THE VOTE BEING TAKEN by publicly stating to the assembly the nature of your interest in the measure on which you are abstaining from voting; and WITHIN 15 DAYS AFTER THE VOTE OCCURS by completing and filing this form with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting,who should incorporate the form in the minutes. * * * * * * * * * * APPOINTED OFFICERS: Although you must abstain from voting in the situations described above, you are not prohibited by Section 112.3143 from otherwise participating in these matters. However, you must disclose the nature of the conflict before making any attempt to influence the decision, whether orally or in writing and whether made by you or at your direction. IF YOU INTEND TO MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION PRIOR TO THE MEETING AT WHICH THE VOTE WILL BE TAKEN: • You must complete and file this form (before making any attempt to influence the decision)with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting,who will incorporate the form in the minutes. (Continued on page 2) CE FORM 8B-EFF.11/2013 PAGE 1 ( )(f),F.A.0 Adopted by reference in Rule 34-7.010 1 . APPOINTED OFFICERS (continued) • A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the agency. • The form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed. IF YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION EXCEPT BY DISCUSSION AT THE MEETING: • You must disclose orally the nature of your conflict in the measure before participating. • You must complete the form and file it within 15 days after the vote occurs with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting,who must incorporate the form in the minutes.A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the agency,and the form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed. DISCLOSURE OF LOCAL OFFICER'S INTEREST Stephen M. Jaron ,hereby disclose that on March 16 20 22 (a)A measure came or will come before my agency which(check one or more) inured to my special private gain or loss; inured to the special gain or loss of my business associate. inured to the special gain or loss of my relative, inured to the special gain or loss of by whom I am retained;or _ inured to the special gain or loss of which is the parent subsidiary,or sibling organization or subsidiary of a principal which has retained me. (b)The measure before my agency and the nature of my conflicting interest in the measure is as follows: I am the owner of Renovate and Restore, LLC and currently have open contracts with Carter Fence Company to provide Temporary Construction Fencing on job sites. If disclosure of specific information would violate confidentiality or privilege pursuant to law or rules governing attorneys, a public officer, who is also an attorney, may comply with the disclosure requirements of this section by disclosing the nature of the interest in such a way as to provide the public with notice of the conflict. 03/21/2022 eDate Filed dt '/Wolf I ,(Mar 21,202218,41 EDT) NOTICE: UNDER PROVISIONS OF FLORIDA STATUTES §112.317, A FAILURE TO MAKE ANY REQUIRED DISCLOSURE CONSTITUTES GROUNDS FOR AND MAY BE PUNISHED BY ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: IMPEACHMENT, REMOVAL OR SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT, DEMOTION, REDUCTION IN SALARY, REPRIMAND, OR A CIVIL PENALTY NOT TO EXCEED$10,000. CE FORM 88-EFF. 11/2013 Adopted by reference in Rule 34-7.010(1)(f),F.A.C. PAGE 2