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CLB Minutes 07/18/2007 R July 18, 2007 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida July 18, 2007 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson Glenn Herriman (absent) William Lewis Sydney Blum Ann Keller (absent) Richard Joslin Lee Horn Eric Guite' ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Mike Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor Robert Zachary, County Attorney Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: WEDNESDAY - JULY 18, 2007 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: June 20, 2007 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Walther Gonzales - Request to reinstate Concrete Form & Place license without retesting. Costinel Gafencu - Request to qualify a 2"' entity. Dinora C. Hernandez - Review of experience affidavits for Floor Covering. Gordon R. Glorch, Jr. - Review of credit report. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: Tentative Date: September 19, 2007 3301 E. Tamiami Trail Naples, FL, 34104 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, again. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board meeting for July 2007. Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will need a record of the proceedings, which is being taken, to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which includes that testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. I'd like to start with roll call to my right. MR. LEWIS: William Lewis. MR. BLUM: Syd Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning to all of you. Michael, you're running the show today, aren't you, Michael Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Chief inspector. MR. OSSORIO: Exactly right. For the record, Michael Ossorio, Collier County contractor licensing supervisor. There are two additions. The first one's under discussion. I just wanted to go ahead and introduce to you Roland Holt. He is our new building director. He's in the audience today. He comes from West Palm Beach. He's one of the top building officials in the State of Florida. MR. JOSLIN: Wow. MR. OSSORIO: Just wanted to maybe give him a welcome and let him know that you support contractor licensing on how we do business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How do you spell the last name? MR. OSSORIO: R-O-L-A-N-D. Page 2 July 18,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, Roland, Roland. MR. JOSLIN: Roland. Is that his first name or last name? MR. HOLT: The last name H-O-L-T. MR. JOSLIN: There you go. MR. OSSORIO: Oh. I thought you said the first name. Sorry about that. Holt, H-O-L- T. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He's from the military. MR. OSSORIO: You're exactly right. MR. JOSLIN: That's a good name. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Roland, good to have you with us. MR. HOLT: Happy to be here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: On the good side of the state. MR. OSSORIO: Now, the second one is going to be under public hearings, and the last name is Destefano, D-E-S-T-E-F-A-N-O. And I don't know ifhe's here today, but he's (sic) been advised that he would like to have a couple words with the board, some comments, and through the advisement of County Attorney's Office, he might want to just speak on behalf of licensing and how we conduct business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who is he? MR. OSSORIO: He's a consumer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Regarding a particular case? MR. OSSORIO: A particular case, and he's been advised by the County Attorney's Office that he has the ability to at least voice his concerns to the licensing board under public comment. I don't expect you to make any comments, but unfortunately he does have the -- he does have the right or the privilege to at least address the board. MR. JOSLIN: Can we question his reasons why or-- MR. OSSORIO: You can when he's here. I don't know ifhe's going to show up or not, but he's been notified. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to approve the Page 3 July 18, 2007 agenda as amended? MR. LEWIS: So moved, Lewis. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So passed. The minutes? Somewhat of a shorter meeting than we expected last month. Do I hear a motion to approve those? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Holt, would you like to address the licensing board? I'd sure like to hear from you. MR. HOLT: Thanks for the opportunity. I was involved in contractor licensing on the other side of the county. I am a certified general contractor, professional engineer, building official. And as part of my duties with St. Johns County, where I was the building official, also had code enforcement and contractor licensing from 1992 to 1999. So I was very active in both those. And St. John's County did require specialty licensing in all the trades. Page 4 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's the real boss. I didn't think you were on. Thank you. MR. HOLT: Duval County, Jacksonville, to the north ofSt. Johns County, did not require specialty licenses. So we had a constant stream of subcontractors who were legally operating in Duval County coming over to St. Johns County and operating without the license. So we had quite an active contractor license activity there. I guess the thing that I'm most pleased about, during the six and a half years that I was there, we arranged and pulled off two stings against unlicensed contractors. We found a vacant property and the sheriffs office and the state's attorney worked with us, and we had an attractive young lady who acted as though she was inheriting the property. And I worked the want ads and called the contractors and invited them to come get licensed, explained how easy it was, how simple it was. Many contractors were afraid of having to sit down and write an exam on business practices. So I took the textbooks that were required for that exam -- we were using Block & Associates -- out to the St Augustine Tech. Center and asked them if they could put together an instructional course, which they did. So, in effect, we could change our licensing ordinance, and a person that went through that business and law course out at St. Augustine Tech and completed it, we accepted his attendance there as being equal to having passed the written exam. And I was pleased with that because many of our older established contractors who had been in business in the county for years started going out there just to learn something to help, you know, in running their business. So I, after St. Johns County, went to Palm Beach County and was a building official there for seven years, and I left there in May of '05 and became a regional vice-president for the largest private provider firm in the company doing plain review and inspections, and left them Page 5 July 18, 2007 in March and came to Collier County five weeks ago on June the 11 tho So it's nice to be back on this side of the county. We really can do some good work. I'm licensed as a professional engineer and a general contractor in addition to being a building official, so I want all parts of the system to work. And if every licensed person does what they're supposed to do, then citizens do get value, they do get service and everybody's happy. So I really appreciate and applaud and am glad to see the attitude that Michael brings to his specific assignment. So I think we will remain active, and I will work, through the building inspectors, to bring you all good factual evidence, so if you do have discipline hearings, you'll be dealing with a lot of facts and hopefully minimize the he said, she said type of thing that gives you all such a problem to deal with. So glad to be here and glad to meet you all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That brings -- now, you're taking-- hang on just a minute, Rol. You're taking Joe Schmitt's place? MR. OSSORIO: No, he's taking -- he took Bill Hammond's position, the building director. MR. JOSLIN: He's the building director. MR. HOLT: In St. Johns County, the last three years that I was there, they did give me planning, zoning and engineering to manage also, but I stepped back down to one tier in normal governmental operations in 1999 when I went to Palm Beach County. And, quite frankly, I tend to be somewhat direct and black and white, and operating in the area of building codes and adopted regulations is a lot more comfortable for me than dealing with all of the subjectivity that goes into the negotiating and the decisions at the level, you know, above where I am. So I'm a building official. I am involved with contractor licensing in that assignment here in Collier County. Feel like I've got a good foundation to deliver the kind of service the county expects, Page 6 July 18, 2007 and I'm delighted to be with you. You all have a very, very important role in the whole operation. And I'm familiar with the power you've got and the decisions you can make. And I say again, working with Michael, whenever we bring cases to you, we'll bring them with the greatest amount of factual evidence and try to minimize the hearsay and the squabble that's so easy to go in. Contracting can be a mean business, it truly can be. I've known people that have gone broke in the business through no fault of their own. I'm standing in his britches. So I understand how mean the business can be, but it is good work that we do and you all do, and together, we can make the system work better for the consumers. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Good to have you. Michael, one thing, while we're in discussion and I've got everyone here. Good morning, Mr. Bartoe. MR. BARTOE: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Remember we changed -- we've always fought the problem of occupational license. MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the state legislature changed that MR. OSSORIO: They did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- to be an occupational fee or tax. MR. OSSORIO: It's called a business receipt tax. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, Collier County didn't get it right after a whole year, because I just renewed mine, and it says occupational license tax. The license is still there. The word license, by state statute, ifI'm not correct, Mr. Neale, but I really think licensing board, since we deal with this, should make a big deal out of it, even if it involves sending out a letter. Page 7 July 18, 2007 MR. NEALE: I would say it would probably be appropriate if the board votes to authorize you as the chair to send a letter to the tax collector and the Board of County Commissioners advising them that, you know, since it's no longer a license, since it is a business tax, that removing the word license would be appropriate, something like that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Could you -- that came out of the 2006 state legislature. Is that difficult for you to find -- MR. NEALE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- that change? I mean, I was shocked that Collier County didn't follow it. Have you gotten yours? MR. JOSLIN: I got mine. I just sent it in. Same thing. Occupational license. MR. BARTOE: Me, too. MR. JOSLIN: Maybe have Mr. Neale drop something from that ordinance -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we need a motion. MR. JOSLIN: -- and then we can do it. I'll make the motion that we remove those words or -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, that the letter be drafted-- MR. JOSLIN: -- to take the occupational license thing out of the picture and make it occupational tax like it's supposed to be. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll second it. Pat, will you draft it. MR. NEALE: Yep. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the only reason I make a big issue of it, to go on record for that, is because we do have people out there who think that -- it says license on there, and they think they're licensed contractors. And that was the whole intent statewide to get rid of that thing. And then I find it here a year later. It's got to stop. No excuse. MR. LEWIS: In conjunction with that, we still, in Collier County and most counties, still have occupational taxes or license tax. Page 8 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You can call it anything, except don't include the word license. MR. LEWIS: Well, we have an occupational license, city -- everybody does. You have to have one for your offices, and it's stated right there, occupational license. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, but the law has changed since then. It doesn't -- it's not supposed to say occupational license. It's supposed to say, what, tax receipt -- MR. NEALE: Business receipt tax, yep. MR. OSSORIO: -- tax receipt. And they have changed it on the web page. And if you look through like Lee County and Collier County, I believe it says, tax receipt. But maybe they didn't get the information out to print, so you -- the occupational license might say print on it, and they couldn't afford it or they couldn't change it at the time, and that could be the reason. Because I had many meetings with the Tax Collector's Office in our office showing the statute, how it changed and what it should read -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You did? MR. OSSORIO: Uh-huh. MR. JOSLIN: Also, I'd also like to add one more thing. Going back to what Mr. Holt was mentioning about the unlicensed contractor and the sting that he set up in the county that he came from. I think this would probably be something that, Mike, I think you might want to get involved in and see how this was done and some of the ways that he did it, because I'm afraid that with all of the building that's going on and all the building that's not going on now, you're going to have a lot of unlicensed people out there looking for work just for something to do, and they're going to be doing it aside from a contractor's aspect. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Side jobs because they're not getting 40 hours or -- MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. Page 9 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- where they're working. MR. JOSLIN: And if we set the law down right now early, I think it will probably deter a lot of people from trying to do that. MR. OSSORIO: Well, we have a very good economics crime unit, I must say. I don't know about West Palm Beach. But Mr. Brock's office, they really do, they -- they're right next to our office now, and they are very proactive and they're in the licensing. We do communicate a lot better than we have in the past. We have set up sting operations when we get a house or two, but we are going through renewals and we are -- remember that there's four investigators. We take care of -- we do all the investigations for the City of Naples, we do all the investigations for City of Marco Island, we do all the -- Copeland, Chokoloskee, Golden Gate Estates, and also the middle part of Collier County with four investigators. So they do read the papers and we do -- probably one out of three tickets we issue is for advertising or promoting yourself to be a contractor, and we do promote literature and IDs and stickies, and we still have the signs up from the hurricane that we have not taken down yet. So we are proactive and we're trying our best in times of crunched numbers, so -- MR. JOSLIN: Well, I understand totally what you're doing, and I appreciate everything that you do. MR. OSSORIO: We issue, I would say, about 60 citations a month, which is probably four times as many as Lee County, so we're out there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. HOLT: Mr. Chairman, Roland Holt, if I might respond to that. If the minutes represent the board's desire for us to also do an unlicensed sting here, the division does have a public relations person. And Michael and I can take that seed that you just planted, and after all, what we want to do is to get the word to people that do have Page 10 July 18, 2007 manual skill that are working as subcontractors to get licensed, okay? We're not just trying to catch unlicensed people. Yeah, we need to do that as part of the whole package, but a major part of the package is the public education to invite them in. So what you just sparked in my mind, if the board's desire is for us to proceed to plan that, we can do so and we can work with the public relations lady. And I think you can probably see a story in the newspaper, say, in a few weeks, that the board has suggested that this be carried out and it's in the planning stages. My daddy wouldn't let me shoot them on the nest, you know. You've got to flush them up and shoot them on the fly. And that would be a way to do that because an article can be very, very positive, the types of licenses that are available, how easy it is for an experienced person to gain their license and operate publicly and how much better it is for a consumer to work with a licensed contractor, because then they have less insurance expense, and so forth. So if it suits the board, let us take your suggestion, Mr. Joslin, as we plan and announce in advance we will be doing a sting sometime in the future as a step to encourage anybody that is operating unlicensed to -- of course, as you all know, once the Jim Walter Amendment got passed years ago, that opened the door for a lot of people without a specialty license to work legally for a builder. And as you just suppose, it's expecting a lot for such people not to occasionally work directly for a homeowner, which is illegal for them. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. Well, ifit needs to have a motion. I don't know what the board thinks, but I'll make the motion that this -- that this happens or that this process begins. MR. BLUM: I'd be happy to second that. It's a great idea. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Was that the motion? MR. JOSLIN : Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And a second. Discussion? Page 11 July 18, 2007 (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let's move on. Walter Gonzales, are you here? I know you are. I saw you. There. If you want, sir, come up here to this podium, right here. I need to have you sworn m. Now, I need Walter Gonzales. I don't know who the other person IS. WENCESLAO GONZALES: I'm his brother. We both own the company. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Who owns the license? Right now Walter Gonzales come to the podium. And if you would state your name and I'll have you sworn in, sir. WALTER GONZALES: My name is Walter Gonzales. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you let your license expire and you want us to go ahead and let you reinstate it without retesting. And I assume it expired in the end of September 2006; is that correct? WALTER GONZALES: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Because I'm reading your letter here. It's on the front page. And I see your reasons, that your family moved back -- out of the country. Have you been working since 200 -- since it expired? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, just for a correction. His license -- if his license expired in 2006, we wouldn't be here. His license expired in 2005. It's been about 13 months. Page 12 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, okay. MR. OSSORIO: So if the license expired 2006, September, then he would just have to pay a penalty and credit report. Unfortunately, this has been a year and three months. And if you haven't taken the exam in three years since that, then you would have to retest. That's the -- under the code. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It would be a year and almost nine months, 10 months. MR. BLUM: It's almost two full years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because we all expire the end of September. That's right. So it's been a little -- it's been a while. One of the things we asked Mr. Gonzales to do to the board is -- I know the board it pretty touchy and they have a good track record, the board does, is to -- Mr. Gonzales has a company. He has been -- you haven't changed the name of your business? You haven't changed your address; am I correct? WALTER GONZALES: Yep. MR. OSSORIO: You've been in business for those 13 months; am I correct? WALTER GONZALES: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: And with that, Mr. Chairman, I want to read you something into the record, if I can, before you start answering the questions. I did receive an email dated July 13th of this month. And I don't have my glasses. You'll have to bear with me here. It says, Dear Collier County Licensing Board, quote, I have the privilege of working with Walter Gonzales during my employment with the Collier County Development Services in the capacity of a building inspector and as a chief structural inspector. The time frame extends from 1988 through present day, or almost 20 years. Walter has always been a conscientious contractor and has done any work I have inspected in a neat, code compliant, and Page 13 July 18, 2007 professional manner. I do not know what circumstances have led to this hearing, but I know that it is -- but I know that if he is not able to continue working for Collier County, we'll -- Collier County will have lost a reputable contractor from its already diminished ranks. Please consider his past performance in allowing him to renew his license. Sincerely yours, Jeff Coukos, chief structural inspector, retired, Collier County Development Services, end quote. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What did that cost you? I've known Jeff for years, and he's the hardest individual in the world. That's a nice letter from Jeff. Jeff doesn't throw those out. Yeah, he'll walk all over you and then you come back and walk some more. MR. JOSLIN: Could you kind of explain the reasons of why the license did lapse or why you didn't renew the license? I mean, there must be a -- WALTER GONZALES: Well, that's why in the letter say -- it was a separation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Talk into that mike and a little louder. W ALTER GONZALES: Sorry. Sorry, my English is not really good. MR. JOSLIN: That's okay. We'll bear with you. WALTER GONZALES: I'll try to. MR. JOSLIN: Our English isn't very good either. W ALTER GONZALES: That's why in the letter it say, it's not really a separation. It's one day I'm back at my home, opened my door, and wife and my kids left, and I'm chuck (sic). MR. JOSLIN: Okay. WALTER GONZALES: Last week -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Maybe at this point -- Walter, sit down for a minute and let me ask this other man to step forward. State your name. Page 14 July 18, 2007 WENCESLAO GONZALES: My name is Wenceslao Gonzales. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Talk louder. WENCESLAO GONZALES: My name is Wenceslao Gonzales. I'm his brother. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I need you sworn in. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Obviously he can't talk about it, so tell us what happened. WENCESLAO GONZALES: He went through a very hard time, separation with his wife. He went -- actually we were from Peru. She left him, went back home with the kids. So that's when I took over. I own 50 percent of the company, and then he gave me all the paperwork. We've been working together. We've been working together for the past 20 years in construction. As a matter of fact, I've been working 25 years in construction in this trade. But it was shocking when, you know, one day he went home and then the wife and kids, they're back in our original country. So I took over the paperwork. I didn't follow it through. And then the license was expired for 13 months, the time frame that it was. It was my responsibility to keep that license alive. But we kind of rely on mailing things to us. We always keep up with the mailing, but now I know that it is our responsibility to keep the license and all the items that a company's supposed to keep up. I mean, I know it's a courtesy from you guys to remind us that the license -- it's just -- this is just to remind us. I'm very nervous, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So basically when you got your renewal, you went in to renew it and found out it was already expired? WENCESLAO GONZALES: Well, the problem was never got the renewal either. Maybe it was lost in the mail or something, but we didn't get the renewal. I didn't get the renewal. Everything is mailed to us through the P.O. Box that we're using, and then I never got it. And one thing to another, keep on working and try to make a Page 15 July 18, 2007 living and try to make everybody happy, that's when the time frame went. My brother, he's been back and forth flying to see his family. As a matter of fact, he just came back last night from the airport. He went to see his family back in Peru. But it's been a very tough situation. We both own the company. He owns 50 percent, I own 50 percent, and basically I kind of let him down. It was my responsibility to keep up with the paperwork, and I didn't do it. But now we know that it's up to us to keep up with the license. And so he's been going through a very hard time, you know, in losing his family. That's all I can say. MR. JOSLIN: How long has he been licensed in Collier County? WENCESLAO GONZALES: Licensed almost five, six years it's been. But we've been in this trade for -- my brother, he's been in this trade for 20 years. I been doing it for 25 years. We know Jeff Coukos for -- I mean, since City of Marco was Collier County. That's when we know each other. I mean, we've been working hence -- I mean, we've been working -- we've been working on the field. We're not like contractors that are, you know, paperwork and send the guys to work. My brother physically works, I work, physically work. We put our hands on the steel, on the concrete and everything else with a couple more guys, three more guys. So that was the reason, basically, that the license expired. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any complaints with the county? MR. OSSORIO: None. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any questions? Bill? I can always tell when you have a question. MR. LEWIS: You're my excellent mind reader, thank you. Mr. Gonzales? WENCESLAO GONZALES: Yes, sir. MR. LEWIS: If you were in charge of the business and 50 Page 16 July 18, 2007 percent owner of the business, how come you didn't know that you needed a license? And have you been working all this time without a license? WENCESLAO GONZALES: Yes, sir. I've been working with a license -- as a matter of fact, we have people that we work with, and we show the license, and I mean, 18 months has passed so fast because of my brother's situation. I tried to keep up with the work and then pay everybody and look for more work. And the people that we work with, they already know from back then that we were a licensed contractor, or my brother is, and I'm owning 50 percent too. So we miss out. So now the industry kind of slowed down, so I started looking for more work, and when they asked me for the license, I went to talk, and, hey, where's the license? They say, well, it's got to be on the boxes. We start looking for the license. We find the license, and that's when we find out about the -- that we have to reinstate it. That's when we just -- and then my brother came here to building department, and then we got the surprise that, you know, the license was expired. I mean, the timing just flew by because of his situation and my situation to take over. I know exactly we have to work with a license. That I know. But it was just -- it was the time that -- and the time went so fast, you know, other circumstances and me taking over. And the contractor -- I mean, general contractor, we work together, they know that we were licensed. I mean, I was not -- when we started looking for more work and we went for the license, that's when we find out. Now the licensed expired. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Lewis, just -- unfortunately, this is going to dovetail on the occupational license. This is the problem we're having. We renew our license in September. Occupational license does the same thing. And when they -- maybe one might get there before the other, Page 17 July 18, 2007 and so they might -- they're assuming that the occupational license is the certificate and they renew the occupational license thinking they renewed and they haven't. And our card is -- you know, it's a five-by-seven card saying you have to renew your license. That seems to be the issue is that he did renew his occupational license, quote, occupational license or business tax and did not know enough to answer the questions getting the certificate because we do not communicate with the tax collector for some reason. Hopefully in the future we will, because they can continue to renew their occupational license and not renew our certificate, and we would never know about it, and that's -- it's a system that we need to go ahead and fix. MR. LEWIS: It's a shame we're not under all-- all under one roof. MR. JOSLIN: Right. WENCESLAO GONZALES: I can show you the paperwork. MR. OSSORIO: That's okay. MR. JOSLIN: No, we have a copy of that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He says you have them. That's all we need. MR. OSSORIO: And that seems to be an issue. And that is a defense. It's still not, you know, 100 percent, but it's something that-- this company has not changed its name, has not changed FICO. I know companies in the past have. He has not shut down his business. He has continued to renew his occupational license. Obviously there was some circumstances, so the county would have no problem whatsoever, with a letter from JeffCoukos or from just looking at the evidence that, to allow him to waive the testing because I believe testing would be impervious to the job he's doing, and we will look at his credit and his history and full application, pay all the penalties that need to be paid to get the license back. MR. LEWIS: Okay. That's the only question. I did want to Page 18 July 18, 2007 make a point that I do notice in here that AMS Staff Leasing says that he was continuously covered with workers' compensation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, and he's got a credit report that's out of this world. MR. LEWIS: I don't understand the FICO scores, but the credit report look wonderful. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Beautiful credit report. MR. JOSLIN: Also, on his occupational tax license, per se, he did renew in '06. So he did carry it out part of the way. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going to make a motion. MR. LEWIS: Wait a second. Eric want's to say something. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, I'm sorry. MR. GUITE': No. MR. LEWIS: Oh, I'm sorry. MR. HORN: I have a question. Just out of curiosity, since he's been doing business for the past year and a half or so without a license and he goes in to pull permits, shouldn't it come up that the license -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He doesn't pull one though. MR. OSSORIO: You're absolutely right, Mr. Horn. That is a good question. And in theory that will work, but if you are a specialty contractor, you don't pull a building permit, therefore, we wouldn't catch it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He works under the general permit. MR. HORN: I see. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I move that we reinstate the license without testing but that within the next year, Walter -- I'm just saying -- using first names so you know who I'm talking to -- that you get seven hours of additional -- can I do this? I think -- MR. JOSLIN: Continuing ed.? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Continuing education on business and law, which means, yeah, you're going to get it, but within the next year, you have to go back to classes and take seven hours of Page 19 July 18,2007 continuing education and business and law if my motion passes, because I think you've displayed that you need to have a review in that. And if we can go with you a little ways, then you can go get seven hours for us. MR. BLUM: I'd like to suggest that younger brother makes every effort to get his license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I was going to do that as well. You're smart enough to get a license. WENCESLAO GONZALES: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There's no reason you shouldn't have one, especially ifhe doesn't come back from Peru some day. WENCESLAO GONZALES: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or I have -- every -- most of us on this board have two licenses in our business. That's smart business. You go get your license. That's not part of the motion. WENCESLAO GONZALES: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you should. MR. BLUM: You'll never have this issue again. MR. JOSLIN: If that's the motion, I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you understand? WALTER GONZALES: Yes, sir. Page 20 July 18,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No testing. You're okay, you're out of trouble, but if you don't get seven hours of continuing education in business and law within the next 12 months, you're back in trouble because it will come up when you renew again. MR. BLUM: And there are Spanish courses. There are courses given in Spanish. WALTER GONZALES: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go to contractor licensing, and on those racks out front, they have the two places to go, and the best one for you is Gainesville Testing. Now, for you and everyone that's in here, don't go to contractor licensing today. All of your files are here. Maggie and the girls will not be able to help you at all. You can go tomorrow. Okay. We wish you much success. Thank you very much. WENCESLAO GONZALES: Thank you very much. Thank you. W ALTER GONZALES: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Costinel Gafencu. I probably butchered that. But come on up here. And I apologize already. If you would state your name, sir, and I'll have you sworn in. MR. GAFENCU: Costinel Gafencu. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say the last name again. MR. GAFENCU: Gafencu. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Gafencu. I didn't do real bad, did I? I need to have you sworn in, sir. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're wanting to come qualify as second entity. Tell us why. MR. GAFENCU: I work for Floors and More Direct for the past five years, and right now they need my help to qualify them also because I am a small company and Floors and More Direct is a -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Talk a little louder, please. Page 21 July 18,2007 MR. GAFENCU: Floors and more direct is a very big company, maybe worth -- a million-dollar company, and I have just a small business, and it's just me and my father on the Italian Marble. And we want to keep to do small jobs that we take from Floors District, like a subcontractor, on our business, but for the big jobs, we want to qualify Floors and More Direct. And they promised me a -- to offer me a salary to supervise all the work that's going to take place under the Floors and More Direct, so I'm going to take care of all the work to be done properly, and they're going to offer me a salary and also the benefits from the company, like health insurance and stuff. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: To qualify their company. Is there a Certificate of Insurance in here? Do you know what the number one problem is with floor companies? MR. GAFENCU: No. MR. HORN: In here in the back. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hmm? MR. HORN: Here in the back. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is you people think that the vans that pull up to your place and load carpet and flooring are independent contractors, and they're not. And that's why workers' compo is always after you and the sting operations happen. You know exactly what I'm talking about, don't you? MR. GAFENCU : Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you do have workers' comp.? MR. GAFENCU: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And it's not just for the owners, right? Only those employees leased, not to subcontractors. There it is. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, just for the record, Floors and More had a qualifier for many years. They've been conducting business here for probably 10 years or so, and they've -- this is the reason they lost their qualifier. Page 22 July 18,2007 And I think the president's here to speak to you ifhe wishes. But we haven't had any complaints on their workmanship or anything. We have had a couple of issues with citations for, you know, hiring some unlicensed subs or wasn't -- didn't properly check their workers' comp., and that's all the complaints we've had on Floors and More. But great company, always take care of their customers, customers -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where are they out of? MR. OSSORIO: Pine Ridge. Right on the comer of Pine Ridge and 41. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pine Ridge and 41? MR. OSSORIO: Right in the little plaza. Been there for years. MR. LEWIS: Pelican Larry's. MR. OSSORIO: I wasn't going to say that, Mr. Lewis. It's somewhere around there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you do understand, to be a subcontractor, they have to have a license and they have to have insurance on their own; do you understand that? MR. GAFENCU: Yeah, I think they have. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. A lot of people in the flooring business don't understand that. MR. OSSORIO: Oh, he knows. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. GAFENCU: I know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm just making a point. Okay. Any other questions of this individual? MR. OSSORIO: I have one. Do you have the ability to hire and fire employees for your company, Floors and More? MR. GAFENCU: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: Okay. Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: Are you going to have a percentage of ownership in the company at all or just a salary? MR. GAFENCU: In Floors and More Direct, no, just a salary. Page 23 July 18, 2007 MR. JOSLIN: Salary and your benefits. MR. GAFENCU: And benefits. MR. JOSLIN: You realize what you're putting yourself into, don't you, your license? MR. GAFENCU: I know. Many people tell me, but I am ready to take the chance. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ifat any time you think anything's being run improperly or you're uncomfortable -- MR. GAFENCU: I will stop, I will say no. I have the power to say, stop this. It's not all right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or you can pull your license from qualifying at any time. MR. GAFENCU: I know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay? MR. LEWIS: Ifthere's no more questions, I have a motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. LEWIS: I move that we approve the second entity as applied for for Floors and More. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll second it. MR. JOSLIN: Second, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll second it, Terri. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you very much success. Page 24 July 18, 2007 MR. GAFENCU: Thank you, sir. MR. LEWIS: Thank you for your professionalism, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Dinora Hernandez. Wow, if you would come up here, please, to the podium. Pull that mike -- yeah. I'll have you state your name then I'll have you sworn in. MS. HERNANDEZ: Dinora Hernandez. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you're -- and the mikes just went. There we go. You're in floor covering also? MS. HERNANDEZ: Oh, yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you want us to look at your experience for licensing. Go ahead, gentlemen. MS. HERNANDEZ: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Michael, you want to tell us why you brought this one. MR. OSSORIO: Well, this is a little bit different form the other one. That was a tile and marble. This is a floor covering. Tile and marble requires a practical exam. This is just a business procedure test. And the county takes a good, hard look at any contractor who doesn't take a trades exam. We look at their references and we call their -- we call every reference, but we actually take a good, hard look at all the floor covering contractors and make sure they know how to conduct business on the job site. This particular case is -- we did notify one applicant, and you can probably turn to page -- oh, four or five pages in and you can read my notes dated 6/25. And unfortunately -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hang on. I'm not there. MR. JOSLIN: Miseal Ayala? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm with you. MR. OSSORIO: Unfortunately, when I talked to Mr. Ayala, he indicated that he has basically worked with her husband, not with her Page 25 July 18, 2007 in general. And that seems to be the norm, unfortunately, that a lot of applicants' wives maybe take the exam or vice versa, and be -- to qualify the company, you have to be present on the job site working under the supervision of a contractor. Floor covering is a tedious job and we verify experience. Unfortunately, this one didn't have it. And I advised the applicant to petition the licensing board in accordance with the code. I have no objections either way. MR. JOSLIN: I have a question though just for staff, for yourself. In this -- application packets that we receive from people -- this is the second one I've seen now in the past month or two -- we're getting people that are bringing in notarized letters of experience that you call and then find out that they're really not legal or they don't know anything about their work experience or what they've done or -- basically they are not saying that this is legal or it's true. MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. MR. JOSLIN: My question would be, in the future is there some way that -- why is this coming before the board when really the packet is really not complete yet? MR. OSSORIO: Well, two things. Maybe Pat Neale can elaborate on that, but -- MR. JOSLIN: Okay. MR. OSSORIO: -- the contractor licensing supervisor reviews all applications. MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. OSSORIO: Ifthere's a discrepancy in the application -- MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. OSSORIO: -- then the application gets forwarded to the licensing board. I don't think it would be -- it wouldn't be a service to the applicant to explain he or herself to the board of what happened. Maybe there's circumstances that I don't know about, but they only have one time to apply. And then if they don't, then they go to the Page 26 July 18,2007 licensing board. If I can't render a decision -- MR. JOSLIN: I see. MR. OSSORIO: -- then it gets forwarded to the licensing board, which I think is a stop safe. It stops me from arbitrarily acting as some, you know, judge and jury, and I'm not here to do that. I'm here to review the application, if it meets the code, and then if I feel comfortable, Tom and myself, we'll go ahead and issue the license, the certificate. But if there's a problem with the workers' comp., liability, or verification of construction experience, it gets forwarded to the board. If Pat Neale thinks differently, maybe he can give you some insight. MR. NEALE: The code's pretty clear in that if the contractor licensing supervisor feels that there is a -- that the application is not adequate on its face, then he is required to refer it to this board for review, so, you know -- MR. JOSLIN: Okay. There's no question about it then, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ms. Hernandez. MS. HERNANDEZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Your turn. MS. HERNANDEZ: Okay. We want to get our license -- we work together, my husband and I -- because we have been working for people who got licensed, but they just -- we do the job and they just give us the papers, and we do the jobs, and then they took 20 percent off the -- what they're paying for the job. And we think that that's not fair. And I think that we can get the license and -- to do that job by ourselves and don't have to give like money to people who do -- who doesn't do anything. And we do the job and they just stay in their homes and taking 20 percent off of or -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. That's good, but what I need for you to specifically address is this individual who we got a reference from. Page 27 July 18, 2007 MS. HERNANDEZ: Oh yeah. My husband knows him. Like seven years ago he got the license. And we get together, my husband and I, and he is out getting the job for him. And he -- we were working together, but who -- who's going to his house to get the papers from the job is my husband. I think that's the reason -- I don't really know him, but we do the job together, my husband and 1. And I think that's the reason that he -- I think he thinks that the only person who do the job is my husband, but we work together. I'm the only one who go to the customer, talk to the customer. And when we're finished that job, we just -- I just go to the customer and ask them, how do they think to the job (sic), and I do all the paperwork for the -- for the jobs and everything. And my husband does the harder job, and I do, like, just clean, do some simple job, but I do know a lot about floor covering. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long have you had your license in Lee County? MS. HERNANDEZ: We just get the license like a few months ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: April? Okay. MS. HERNANDEZ: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Questions? MR. LEWIS: Just clarification, I think. Are you looking at this? Lee County license? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. LEWIS: That's a business tax document. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, is it? Okay. MR. BLUM: I guess a comment. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sure. MR. BLUM: I got a huge problem with it. I'm sorry. I don't want to be unfeeling. I don't want to be unsympathetic. This goes back to some of the things that we as a board have noted as particularly egregious to us. Page 28 July 18,2007 It appears that somebody's renting his license to these folks to do the job. Their sweat equity is doing the work and he's charging them 20 percent to allow them to use his license. That's one of the things that I personally abhor and the board has found very unpleasant. We can't seem to stop it. I would love to find a way to stop it in this case. I just can't in good conscience waive the experience factor that doesn't appear to be here to allow this license to be issued. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Question for Mr. Ossorio. In a case like this, what have we done in the past? What if they changed the application to the husband, or say it's not a husband and wife, and they go back and get good references? What do you do then? MR. OSSORIO: The board will give me direction, and either the husband would take the business and law test or go through the -- as Roland stated before, go through a class. There's a business and law class once a month. It's on Golden Gate Parkway, somewhere around in that area. That is a -- it's a course for business procedure, and then you take the exam, get a 75. The husband can do that. Or if the board directs me to take a fresh look at the application and ifMr. or Mrs. Fernandez could give me adequate 24 months of experience on the job, I have no problem. I will issue that certificate tomorrow, or we can deny it, or you can issue a provisional license for one year. MR. LEWIS: Question also, Mr. Ossorio. On the other two verifications of experience. Were those qualified or checked? MR. OSSORIO: I did not check them, no. MR. LEWIS: Okay. How is it you always find the one the first time? Isn't that great? MR. OSSORIO: Well, to my defense, we -- I notify all three, but the first one I get in contact with I communicate with. MR. LEWIS: Okay. So we have no idea whether-- MR. OSSORIO: No idea. MR. LEWIS: -- the other two are verifiable or not? Page 29 July 18, 2007 MR. OSSORIO: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But she has taken the business and law test? MR. OSSORIO: She has taken the exam and passed the business procedure test. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Question for you. Can you come up with three good references of 24 months of experience? MS. HERNANDEZ: Yeah. Yeah, but the thing that he was suggesting to my husband to take the exam, the thing is that he can't take the exam because he doesn't know English very well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They do it in Spanish also. MS. HERNANDEZ: Oh, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So either way. And again, it's something -- it's good to have two licenses. MS. HERNANDEZ: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two is better than one. MR. BLUM: There's a choice here. He can verify the experience but he hasn't got the legal. You got the legal and you don't have the experience. So one or the other has got to happen. And I personally would be -- love for you to find a way to do it. So maybe work with Mr. Ossorio, come up with a plan that he can live with and you can live with and get this done. I really don't want to make a motion to tell you how to do this. I'd rather let you decide it. If you can come up with verifiable experience for yourself, great. If your husband can take the business and law with Spanish teachers, great. One of those things. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio. MR. OSSORIO: I'd like to go ahead and see if Mrs. Hernandez will withdraw her application and so you don't have to make a motion on it and I will work with her for the next three weeks to go ahead and facilitate everything she needs. Page 30 July 18, 2007 MR. BLUM: There you go. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Smart move. MR. BLUM: There you go. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So will you withdraw this application for today? MR. BLUM: That's what I was hoping. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you understand withdrawal? MS. HERNANDEZ: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And then get with Mr. Ossorio, work with him. MR. BLUM: We really want this to happen for you. Let him help you, direct you. MS. HERNANDEZ: Okay. MR. GUITE': I have one comment. On her verification, why would he sign it and notarize it and -- knowing that it's not true? MR. JOSLIN: That was my comment. MR. GUITE': That to me is almost perjury. MR. LEWIS: It is perjury. He filled it out. I mean, you can see the writing is different there, so someone filled it out so -- it's a shame, it really is. MR. GUITE': We've seen it before. MR. BLUM: Is this the first time -- MR. JOSLIN: No, this is not the first time. MR. BLUM: We've had this before with people falsely testifying and then reneging. MR. GUITE': I mean, I've only had one person come to me and ask me to fill it out, and I had to think long and hard before I filled it out. And, you know, they did have the work experience. They did work for me, so -- MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Guite', your thoughts are embedded in my mind, and I'll bet you within another six months you'll see a license company in front of you discussing that same issue. So we do have Page 31 July 18, 2007 avenues, unfortunately, that -- we have some priorities going on right now with some renewals, and there's no board meeting next month. But I predict you'll probably see something coming up soon. MR. NEALE: And there is a statement actually at the bottom of the affidavit that maybe Michael and I can talk about making it even stronger, because it does say falsifying any information provided herein may subject your license to revocation. And maybe, if the board directs and, you know, talk to staff, is if somebody does do a false affidavit, they get a notice from the licensing office saying, by the way, read what you just signed and read what you -- listen to what you just said. MR. OSSORIO: On that same note, I don't want to get off on a tangent, but I'll dovetail on this, is the State of Florida has been having the same problem, people signing their qualifications off, so they're -- they have a web page or a database they have. And when you sign experience for a particular contractor or applicant, your name goes on that -- in that folder, and if it comes up too many times, a red flag goes on your license and they start doing some checking. So ifMr. Lewis keeps signing, you know, these qualifications for 25 contractors all the way from here to Jacksonville, it's going to put a red flag up. So the state's actually trying to rein that in as well. And on the same note, they're also trying to rein in on what is an acceptable credit. And I believe the state's having a -- they had a workshop pertaining to that, is that, what is a number that is good credit? And I think they came up with like 650. And anything above -- anything below 650 or below 640, they would have to come in with a bond. Obviously we're not there yet, but it's something that we're watching with the state to see how they -- you know, obviously they're going to probably get challenged. But we're watching that closely as well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mrs. Gonzales (sic), I'm going to Page 32 July 18, 2007 accept your withdrawal of your application. MR. LEWIS: Ms. Hernandez. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hernandez, I'm sorry. I don't know where that came from. Probably the Gonzales we had before, but -- and if you'll get with Mr. Ossorio, I'm sure he'll -- between the two of you, things can be rectified. Okay. MS. HERNANDEZ: Okay, thanks. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you well. Thank you. Gordon Glorch, if you'll come up, sir. State your name and I'll have you sworn in. MR. GLORCH: Gordon R. Glorch, Jr. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're looking at your credit report. Is this all because ofNextel? MR. GLORCH: The one that I'm contesting is Nextel. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Because no one likes them. MR. GLORCH: They broke my phone and -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They broke everybody and then ran for the hills -- MR. GLORCH: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- then sold out. MR. GLORCH: The one judgment for R.H. Donnelley has been satisfied. I do have a copy of that. I received that yesterday. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Glorch, can you hand that to the clerk. And did you get sworn in? MR. GLORCH: Yes. MR. BLUM: Just a minute. Mrs. Hernandez, you don't have to stay unless you want to. MS. HERNANDEZ: Oh, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You can talk with Mike. Mike, do you want her to stay? MR. OSSORIO: No, she can -- I'll meet her sometime this week. Page 33 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. GLORCH: Okay. And then on the rest of the Collier County tax, we have been making payments and did make an agreement with them. I did talk to them yesterday because this one as of 5/4 or -- yeah, 5/4/2007 was actually due to, my accountant did not file my taxes. She was -- at that time what we have done to eliminate the tax problem is I'm now paying the sales tax to my suppliers because it's less paperwork for me, and I can keep on doing, you know, quality work for the community. So she was doing that but didn't get that filed. That -- she is in the process of filing that at the present time, this morning. She was on vacation and just came back. Otherwise those -- that is why the one for -- was an assessed tax, and that is why that is at the $9,405 value, but that was assessment because of the amount that we are making the payments on, which I have the payment schedule right here. So she is taking care of that, filing those taxes, and paying those sales tax for that month. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you used to live on Rum Row? MR. GLORCH: My parents do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. GLORCH: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I was just -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Glorch, can you take us back in time and how we met and how you took over the company and what transpired. I think the board might want to hear something about your past and get yourself up to speed about your present. MR. GLORCH: Okay. I purchased the business on April 2nd in 2001 from the original owner of Southwest Florida Glass and Mirror, who was underneath the contractor, to stay with me for over a year to help me get my license. He is also one of my qualifiers, as you will see, in the information that I gave you, and that would be Arnold Page 34 July 18,2007 Mattson. Arnold Mattson -- I bought it on April 2nd. Arnold Mattson on, I do believe it was June, I want to say 3rd or 4th, proceeded to walk off the job on me and left me to study, get my license, and pass the exam. I am a severe dyslectic, which is documented from my fourth grade. I overcame that, took classes, learned, learned from both -- many different glass suppliers, mirror suppliers, such as RH. Donnelley, believe it or not, I even learned some things from Rice. I also worked for Glass Tech., which is no longer in business here. So I learned a lot of my store front and so on from them. I proceeded to study. I did take the exam one time. Very difficult. I did fail it, but I did persist, and I went with the Gainesville license -- or Testing Bureau. They had a lot better system, and I was able to study a lot harder and I was able to pass it when I took it again with them. So I passed that. I went to apply. And when I realized that credit was very important -- in my previous marriage before I moved down here from Wisconsin, she did, my ex-wife, took me to the cleaners, period. I have satisfied pretty much all of that, as you can see on my personal record. There's just a couple minor medicals that are up there that I am making payments on. So then it came to this case. I met with Michael, tried to get everything taken care of so I wouldn't have to take up your time, but I was able to get the -- the RH. Donnelley taken care of. In the interim, I have gone through -- I found a very good accountant who's actually the one who made the mistake, but she -- we gave her a lot of work to take care of for us. My original accountant made -- gave me bad advice. In the interim I have learned that it is better to have a leasing company for my employees because it's guaranteed workmen's comp., also a lot less -- and less paperwork for me, so I can make sure work is done on a quality basis. Page 35 July 18, 2007 MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Glorch, have you ever got a ticket before, a citation from our office? MR. GLORCH: Yes, I have. MR. OSSORIO: Have you paid them? MR. GLORCH: I have paid -- the ones that you give me, I have not gotten a chance to run those down yet, but I will by this weekend. MR. OSSORIO: So are you saying to the board that have you worked illegally in Collier County? MR. GLORCH: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: And in taking care of your customers, have we ever called you complaining about a consumer? MR. GLORCH: No, you have never. MR. OSSORIO: No questions. MR. JOSLIN: Has he had more than one ticket? MR. OSSORIO: He had several. MR. JOSLIN: Meaning? MR. OSSORIO: More than three. MR. BLUM: Do you have a recommendation here, Michael? MR. OSSORIO: I recommend that, as our building director stated before, we have much more jurisdiction over somebody licensed than -- versus not licensed. We haven't had any consumer fraud or consumer complaints again Mr. Glorch's company. I recommend that, if the board feels comfortable, that we give him six months probation to see if he starts paying on these tax liens, which he is currently doing, and then I can reassess it, and then we could bring it before the board for another six months. MR. BLUM: That's where I was headed myself, but I'd rather see a year, quite frankly. There's an awful lot here. I'd rather put him on probation for a year at least. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we could do six months and let Michael have the latitude, or his office have the latitude to extend it another six months unless they feel it's necessary -- Page 36 July 18,2007 MR. BLUM: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- to bring it back to the board. MR. BLUM: Okay. I could live with that one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You like that one? MR. OSSORIO: That's fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. That Yellow Page ad, I sure hope it was worth that much money. MR. JOSLIN: I have one other question. MR. GLORCH: No. To be honest with you, no. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Glorch? MR. GLORCH: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: I've got in here in the packet a letter from Code Enforcement Board from Naples. MR. GLORCH: Uh-huh. MR. JOSLIN: Saying that you were to appear for a hearing on July 5th of '07. MR. HORN: It's like 15 days ago. MR. GLORCH: That -- I did meet with Michael on that, but I didn't know about a hearing. I was in communication. I met, I think, with Michael two days before that, on Wednesday. MR. JOSLIN: This is for a-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He's writing it. MR. HORN: Well, actually, I think that's his father who wrote that. MR. NEALE: What it looks like -- MR. JOSLIN: When you met-- MR. NEALE: What it looks like is he may have, my guess is -- just having no actual knowledge, my guess is that he confused -- Mr. Glorch confused Code Enforcement Board with the Contractor Licensing Board. MR. JOSLIN: That's kind of what I thought. MR. GLORCH: Yeah, that's from my father. Page 37 July 18,2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: His father signed it. MR. GLORCH: He was in Wisconsin and they -- okay. I just noticed the letter. To respond to that, my sister punched it up on the computer, and I had to respond to the licensing board by that date. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. MR. GLORCH: She misconstrued that. MR. JOSLIN: I gotcha. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I make a motion that we follow county's recommendation in this case that he be put on a six-month probation to be monitored by contractor licensing office, and if he continues to comply to satisfaction of paying on liens and debts, that chief inspector has the latitude to extend that six months probation another six months but can bring it back to this board at any time if he feels it -- deems it necessary. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those if favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're okay. MR. GLORCH: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Stay out of trouble with him. MR. GLORCH: Oh, I will. Thank you very much, gentlemen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All right. MR. BLUM: Boy, we've been awful damn nice today. Page 38 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I know. MR. BLUM: This is not a good precedent. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think what happened is I attended a state licensing -- I was somewhat being courted for the state licensing board so I went and watched what they did, and I will say that I was appalled, and I hope our board never gets like that -- MR. LEWIS: Amen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- and treats people in the shameless fashion that the state board treats people that appear before them so -- but no wonder they're two years behind. But no, I'm not at all interested in serving on the state. And I thank Mr. Lewis for suggesting that I attend a meeting before I consider that invitation. But -- I'll just leave it at that. Enough said. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. LEWIS: We have an addition to the agenda. I don't believe he's here, but Destefano, regarding comments of licensing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Unless that's Terri? I know everyone else's last name in here. I should know your because I sent you a -- your parents a proposal. So yeah, the consumer who wanted to be on, make a public comment was not here so, so noted that he did not appear. Anyone else have anything else? We're showing -- oh, Mr. Bartoe. MR. BARTOE: For the record, I don't know if it was brought up before I got here or not. Mr. Boyd is not absent. His term expired June 30th. I do understand he's reapplying. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we sure hope the county commissioners will approve that. He's a good member of this board. MR. LEWIS: Can we bring it up at this time then, since we're into discussion and reports, a recommendation to see if staff is able to Page 39 July 18, 2007 track that a little bit better than we can, because frankly, I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't even know he was off the board and didn't even shake his hand goodbye last month, so just in case he doesn't come back or what have you, to thank him for his service. But is there another way that's easier to be trackable so that we can get it on our agenda that we know when people are coming up for renewals? MR. OSSORIO: Consider it done. We'll take care of that in the next few months. MR. LEWIS: Thank you, sir. MR. OSSORIO: But Mr. Boyd, he was on the borderline of applying and not applying. He was well informed, because I think the staff members sent letters out saying that you need to reapply, and we've communicated with him. So he was teetering back and forth, should I apply, should I not apply, and he just made it in. As a matter of fact, he just made it in, so -- MR. LEWIS: And that might be something, if we can get it-- and sorry to interrupt, but if we can get it on the agenda like at least a month ahead of time, that maybe the board members themselves can actually approach the other board member and -- MR. BARTOE: Do the members have a list of all the board members? MR. LEWIS: At one time I had one, but I just looked for it -- MR. BARTOE: I will try to get a new one to you next meeting because I believe on the left-hand side Maggie has on there when everyone's term expires. MR. LEWIS: But I won't look at it every month, I'll guarantee it. That's why it would be nice to have it on here. MR. OSSORIO: We'll take care of it. MR. LEWIS: Very good. Thank you, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So we can do -- the motion for his cruise can be in next month's meeting, right? Always like to keep people guessing. Page 40 July 18, 2007 No meeting next month. Anyone else have anything else? Next meeting is when, September 19th. That will be football season, yes. MR. BLUM: Oh, Michael or Mr. Bartoe, on another note, I want to thank staff for acquiescing to my wishes to communicate with me with the e-mail. It helps me a lot. I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mike, one last question. Should we hang onto Mark Raddenbush, Idle Construction? MR. OSSORIO: No. I would discard it. You can leave it here if you'd like. They are in civil litigation. Just to give you communication. I wasn't going to bring this up, but he did ask for a rehearing, but unfortunately to rehear something, you have to have it admitted, so there is no rehearing policy. The board took a stance that they didn't want to hear the case. It was never brought up, and so there is no case so there is no rehearing policy -- there is no rehearing possible, so -- MR. BARTOE: Ifthere would ever be a case after litigation is settled, I'm sure you'll see a number of different circumstances and a completely different packet because, you know, we'd have to wait and see what the order of the civil court is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. LEWIS: Also I have one from last month or two months ago, S.M., Inc. of Lee County, request to qualify Vision Painting of Florida. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. He dismissed that. He didn't want to do it anymore, so you can go ahead and put that aside as well. MR. JOSLIN: I have one other thing. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be held onto or not. But an Alison, John Alison. MR. OSSORIO: You can throw that away, too. Discard it, sure. The state has that case already. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. Page 41 July 18, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody else? MR. HOLT: Mr. Chairman, Roland Holt, Collier County building official. On the case you just referred to about Mr. Napson (sic), Joe Schmitt, the administrator of community development and environmental services, received a fax yesterday from Mr. Napp, a lot of bold letters, great emphasis, urging us to demand the board to have a hearing raising questions about the inspections that led to the CO on his home. And I have prepared a fax to go back to the homeowner today. Michael read it this morning early and suggested one change in adding copies of who receives the letter. And basically what I have told the homeowner is that I had understood when I reviewed the packet -- before your June meeting, I read the case, so forth -- that I had understood that the owner of the home would not give the contractor access to make corrections that the contractor said he would make. So basically what am I proposing in my -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going to interject something here. Am I creating a forum to where I'm going to have to give equal time to somebody? MR. NEALE: No. At this point I think this is just a report on-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you covering this very closely? MR. NEALE: Yeah. I think this is just a staff report on activities that don't -- that are not material to the facts of the case. It's just a report on what's going on between staff and -- MR. HOLT: I'll quickly conclude then. I'm responding to the facts that my boss got saying, I understand that the contractor will make corrections if you give him access. Will you or will you not? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But see, the board doesn't care about this. MR. HOLT: You all-- okay. My comments-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The only thing we're interested in is Page 42 July 18,2007 there was civil litigation in progress. That is our sole reason for not hearing that case. MR. HOLT: What I told the owner of the home is the county staff has no power to make this board do or not do anything, you know. You all are a free and independent citizen board with powers that you execute, and you all did what you have the power to do. And I'm telling the owner, if you want the repairs made, tell me you'll give the contractor access and I'll see if he'll go make the repairs. And I don't know whether he will do that or not. And I suspect that he will not do that, that he will decide not to do anything until after the civil matter is over. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And only at such time will this board hear that case. MR. HOLT: But his fax was very, very -- well-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's been a long-standing-- MR. HOLT: Let me not speculate on what may happen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let's close it out, yeah. Because it -- I don't want to get going on this. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second. MR. GUITE': Second, Guite'. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? ***** Page 43 July 18,2007 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10: 17 a.m. CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, Chairman These minutes approved by the Board on presented or as corrected , as TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS. Page 44