BCC Minutes 07/20/2021 TH/StakeholderJuly 20, 2021
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
STAKEHOLDER TASK FORCE
COASTAL STORM RISK MANAGEMENT
Naples, Florida, July 20, 2021
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Stakeholder Task Force,
for the Review of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Collier County
Coastal Storm Risk Management Feasibility Study, met on this date
at 11:00 a.m., in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East
Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
Acting Chair: Penny Taylor
Jeff Brown
Clint Cuny
Paul DeMarco
Michael Fogg
Terry Hutchison
Ronald Nordman
Kathy Robbins
Sharda Spahr
Janet Ferry (via Zoom)
James Bowlds (via Zoom)
Dielli Husen (via Zoom)
Sally Woliver (via Zoom)
Pamela Young-Nicholls (via Zoom )
STAFF:
Amy Patterson, Deputy County Manager
Jeff Klatzkow, County Attorney
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Good morning, everyone. My
name is Penny Taylor. I have been, on paper, chair. I think that's a
decision that we have to make as a group, so I'm going to resign from
that position at this point. But I will kind of lead us where we're
going right now.
We don't -- we are going to operate, as an attorney friend of
mine would say, with belt and suspenders. What we are discussing
is a $2 billion plan, and because of that, we are going to make sure
that what we discuss is done in the Sunshine; that we have a court
reporter, our wonderful Terri, who's going to take down the minutes
for anyone to review. And, matter of fact, we will be reviewing
these minutes on a meeting-by-meeting basis so that you will have
them, and then you can approve them.
We are going to operate under Robert's Rules as much as we
can. This isn't by the book, but we are going to try to keep as much
order and as much clarity to what we do for all of us because of the
complexity of this plan and also where we are today with it.
Now, Amy Patterson is our Deputy County Manager. She's
going to be leading us in this. And at this point, I'm going to turn it
over to you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you, Commissioner Taylor.
Again, my name is Amy Patterson. I'm one of the Deputy
County Managers for Collier County. We did provide an agenda for
you yesterday, and we're going to walk through the portions of the
agenda that we can do without a quorum at this point. So these will
be some informational items. If we achieve a quorum -- so we need
11 members here in the room. If we achieve a quorum, then we'll be
able to take on some of the business here with organizational motions
and such, but while we wait to see if we achieve that, we'll go ahead
and move on.
We can do introductions, we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance,
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and we can go through our Sunshine Law video, as well as talk about
the homework for the next meeting.
So with that, I think we should stand for the Pledge of
Allegiance.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Mr. Hutchison, would you lead
us, please.
MR. HUTCHISON: It would be my pleasure.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
MS. PATTERSON: My apologies. I got a little out of order.
But let's go ahead, and we can go through a roll call here. And if
you're here, if you'd like to say "present," and then if you'd like to just
tell us maybe briefly about yourself, and then we can -- we'll move
on from there.
So I will start top and read down. Commissioner Penny Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner District 4.
Arguably -- it's probably not the largest stretch of beach in the
districts, but it's darn close, and so I'm very, very involved in the
beaches, and certainly as an almost 35-year resident of Collier
County, I understand how important the beaches are to our
community. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: James Bowlds. And I apologize.
Correct me if I pronounce your name incorrectly if you are here.
MR. BOWLDS: Yes, I'm here. Well, hello.
MS. PATTERSON: He's on Zoom.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: He needs to give --
MS. PATTERSON: If you'd like to tell us a little about
yourself, who you're representing.
MR. BOWLDS: I'm James Bowlds. I'm an owner in Seagate
subdivision. I'm one of the directors for the association of property
owners for the beach club we have, and we have definite concerns
about this.
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MS. TAYLOR: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Erik Brechnitz. I don't see Commissioner -- or Councilperson
Brechnitz here.
Jeff Brown is an alternate for James McManemon.
MR. BROWN: McManemon.
MS. PATTERSON: McManemon, sorry.
MR. BROWN: I'm here. I represent the Ritz-Carlton Naples
Resort. I've been here since '97, roughly 22 years. I've been part of
the community. And been with the company in general for 35. So
just about ready to retire. That's why this is my first and only
meeting.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Ray Christman?
MR. HUTCHISON: I'm Terry Hutchison. Ray Christman
is -- Councilman Ray Christman is unable to attend and extends his
regrets. I'm a member of City Council. I'm also the vice mayor for
the City of Naples. I'm a business owner. And, of course, I'm
intimately concerned with this project and here to represent the
community. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Brett Cohan?
MR. DeMARCO: I'm substituting for Brett Cohan. My name
is Paul DeMarco. I'm a resident at Naples Cay in the Baypointe
building. I've been in Naples since 1998, not full time, but certainly
full time for the last three or four years.
The Naples Cay Master Association, which is composed of eight
buildings, condos, is highly concerned about this project, and we
really would like to see if we can deal with it in an effective sort of
way.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
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Catherine Cordero.
(No response.)
MS. PATTERSON: Charlotte Culgin.
(No response.)
MS. PATTERSON: Clint Cuny.
MR. CUNY: Good morning. My name's Clint Cuny. I live
in Vanderbilt Drive. I'm also the president of the Vanderbilt
Waterway MSTU. And thank you for all those who were involved
in helping us get that dredged. It's done wonders.
I'm also on the board of directors of the Estuary Conservation
Association, so our interests are certainly very broad. So I look
forward to this engagement.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. We already heard from
Mr. DeMarco.
Janet Ferry?
(No response.)
MS. PATTERSON: Michael Fogg.
MR. FOGG: Yes. I'm the chairman of the Pelican Bay
Services Division, and we are kind of responsible for the beach from
Vanderbilt Beach down to Clam Bay. So, obviously, we're very
concerned as to how that -- how the proposal in this project would
affect us in the long-term, particularly as -- Pelican Bay as a section
in -- I think it's Section 2 in the plan has essentially been isolated out
of this plan. So we have, obviously, lots of concerns as we go
forward here.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
James Hoppensteadt.
MR. FOGG: He's not here. Wasn't able to make it.
MS. PATTERSON: Online, can you -- help me with your
name. Dielli Husen.
MR. HUSEN: Dielli Husen.
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MS. PATTERSON: Sorry, go ahead.
MR. HUSEN: Yeah, you're not alone.
I'm the president of the Barefoot Beach Property Owners
Association, which is probably the northernmost part of the beach in
Collier County, and we've had a lot of erosion. So I was invited to
attend, and that's about all I know right now.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Mick Moore.
(No response.)
MS. PATTERSON: Ronald Nordman.
MR. NORDMAN: Good morning. I'm Ron Nordman. I am
the president at the Seasons at Naples Cay. I've been a homeowner
in Collier County since 1991. I am intimately involved in reviewing
the Army Corps of Engineers project, and I think it needs some
serious fixing, and I'm glad to be a member of this committee.
Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Kathy Robbins.
MS. ROBBINS: I'm here, and I'm the treasurer of Vanderbilt
Beach Residents Association, and our domain goes from north of the
Ritz up to Wiggins Pass. So we're interested very much in the
beach.
MS. PATTERSON: Excellent. Thank you.
Sharda Spahr.
MS. SPAHR: Yes, sir. Good morning. I'm here on behalf of
Moorings Property Owners Association. I'm also involved with the
Moorings Bay Citizens Advisory Committee. I've lived on
Moorings Bay for 36 years and extremely interested in the discussion
we're going to be having. Thank you for allowing me to be here.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Online, Sally Woliver.
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MS. WOLIVER: Hi, Amy. (Unintelligible) words. It's good
to be here. I am part of the League of Women Voters, and I've been
working with the ACUNE project, which I'm sure you'll be talking
about, since 2016, even before we received the grant.
And I've got a quick question. Is there anybody here from
Marco Island or Everglades City?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No.
MS. WOLIVER: Oh. Do you need help getting folks?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Mr. Brechnitz is the councilman
from the Marco Island Commission, and so he will be responsible for
bringing somebody or an alternate, and Everglades City, we reached
out to them, but at this point there's no one here.
MS. WOLIVER: Okay. If you want me to try to help you
with that, let me know, because we've been working closely with
them when we were doing, you know, the interviews back a couple of
years ago. So just give me a holler if you need that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: And our final is Pamela Young-Nicholls.
She is online.
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: Good morning, everyone. I am
representing Gulf Shore Association of Condominiums. We have 70
member associations, about 4,400 residents along a two-mile stretch
of Gulf Shore Boulevard. We, obviously, have concerns on the bay
side and the gulf side. That's Moorings Bay and Venetian Bay.
I'm also a board member at Admiralty Point which, if you don't
know, on our south border, we are on Doctors Pass and -- also on the
bay and also on the gulf. So being directly -- our land leads out to
the jetty on the south side, so a sector gate there will be very
impactful for our residents. So that's why I'm here, as well as for our
community, greater community.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
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At this point we would look over the agenda and review
minutes; however, since we are working in informational status only,
we are going to move on to our Sunshine Law video. This is going
to give you an overview of the Sunshine Law in Florida and the
things that can and can't be done under the Sunshine Law.
So with that, Troy is going to take it away .
(A video was played as follows:)
MR. KLATZKOW: Welcome. I'm Jeff Klatzkow, the County
Attorney for Collier County. I'd like to welcome you to Collier
County's advisory board training on the Sunshine Law, public
records, and ethics laws and regulations.
MS. GREENE: Hello. My name is Colleen Greene, and I am
an assistant County Attorney in Collier County.
Today we are going to give you a brief overview of what it
means to be on an advisory board, Florida's Government in the
Sunshine Law, the Public Records Law, and a quick overview of
Florida state and county ethics requirements.
MR. KLATZKOW: A county advisory board is created by
ordinance, resolution, or Florida Statutes to provide advice and
recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners on diverse
matters of public concern. Collier County has approximately 40
advisory boards and over 300 members.
MS. GREENE: The primary purpose of an advisory board is to
get a group of people who are both interested in and have some level
of understanding in the purpose of that particular board in a public
meeting to discuss issues that affect the county and to recommend
solutions to the Board of County Commissioners.
MR. KLATZKOW: Your advisory board was created by the
Board of County Commissioners pursuant to the county's general
Advisory Board Ordinance and the specific document that created
your advisory board. Advisory boards are created to review and
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discuss specialized areas set forth within the advisory board's
functions, powers, and duties set forth within the Advisory Board
Ordinance or resolution.
For example, we have a Senior Affairs Advisory Board to
review and discuss matters that are important to our senior
population.
MS. GREENE: The county's general Advisory Board
Ordinance sets forth the requirements for boards, the method of
appointment, ways a board member could be removed from office,
and reminds advisory board members that individually they are not
representatives of Collier County.
MR. KLATZKOW: In order to be appointed to a county
advisory board, you must meet certain requirements. For example,
you must be a permanent resident and elector of Collier County. In
some cases, the Board of County Commissioners will seek residents
outside of Collier County based on the specific area for the advisory
board to review and discuss.
In addition, the advisory board member must have a
demonstrated interest or experience in the activity or area which is
the purpose of the advisory board.
MS. GREENE: Advisory board members are appointed by the
Board of County Commissioners at a regularly scheduled board
meeting based on the advisory board applicant meeting the specific
qualifications for membership on that board.
MR. KLATZKOW: An advisory board member may also be
removed from an advisory board by the Board of County
Commissioners at a regularly scheduled board meeting. Grounds for
removal include no longer living in Collier County, you become a
candidate for political office -- and there are exceptions to this
rule -- you become a plaintiff in a lawsuit against Collier County, you
exceed the permitted absences for your advisory board, or you may
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be removed by the Board of County Commissioners with or without
reason.
As a member of an advisory board, you do not individually
represent Collier County. You may not hold yourself out to the
public as a representative of Collier County, and you cannot create or
use or distribute any literature that promotes yourself as such.
MS. GREENE: Each advisory board is created by the Board of
County Commissioners by either an ordinance or resolution. The
ordinance will define the purpose, powers, and duties of your board.
Your staff liaison will review all of the elements with you.
MR. KLATZKOW: We will now discuss with you the Florida
Government in the Sunshine Law.
Collier County Government is in the business of providing
essential government services for the citizens of Collier County. We
are in the business of providing for the public's health, safety, and
welfare. We do this by building and maintaining roads and bridges;
providing parks and libraries; providing clean water, sewer, and trash
pickup; we run an ambulance service; and we ensure all new
construction meets Florida Building Code.
The Sunshine Law provides our citizens with a right of access to
the process to provide for citizen involvement in the making of these
decisions.
MS. GREENE: The Sunshine Law applies to advisory board
members. Any discussion between two or more members of the
same advisory board on any topic that could come before that board
for discussion is considered a meeting under the Sunshine Law.
There are three basic requirements of the Sunshine Law found in the
Florida Statutes. Meetings of public boards, committees, or
commissions must be open to the public, reasonable notice of such
meetings must be given, and minutes of the meeting must be taken.
MR. KLATZKOW: All meetings must be open to the public,
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which is why we hold meetings in the board chambers or other public
places such as libraries. There's no point in having a public meeting
unless people know about it and have the ability to attend the
meeting. At a minimum, three days' advanced notice is required for
public meetings, but several weeks' notice is what we strive for. All
public meetings are posted on the county's online calendar.
MS. GREENE: Not everyone may be able to attend a public
meeting. That is why the Sunshine Law requires that written
minutes be taken at a meeting and made available to the public so
that people may be informed as to what occurred at the meeting.
The Sunshine Law applies to all county advisory boards and all
of the advisory boards' subcommittees. The Sunshine Law
specifically applies when two or more members of the same board or
committee discuss a matter that may foreseeably come before the
same board or committee.
We have some top five reminders for advisory board members.
First, no pre or post meeting discussions with other board members;
two, no private conversations on the dais; three, avoid texting on the
dais; four, do not use nonmembers as liaisons between members; and,
five, avoid the appearance of impropriety.
MR. KLATZKOW: As an advisory board member, the
Sunshine Law applies to any discussion with another board member
that may foreseeably come before your advisory board. This
includes written correspondence. All two-way communication on
your advisory board business must be done in compliance with all
elements of the Sunshine Law.
MS. GREENE: If an advisory board would like to conduct an
inspection trip, all elements of the Sunshine Law must be met. The
meeting must be open to the public with reasonable notice provided
and minutes taken.
Depending on the location of the inspection trip, this may be
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difficult. To avoid Sunshine Law issues, if you wish to conduct an
inspection trip, do it outside of the company of a fellow board
member.
MR. MILLER: Are two members of the same advisory board
or Board of County Commissioners allowed to attend the same social
event or civic function, like a Chamber of Commerce meeting?
MS. GREENE: Social events and other community events are,
of course, permissible. Advisory board members must be aware to
not discuss any matter that may be discussed at their advisory board
meetings.
MR. MILLER: Does the Sunshine Law apply to a private
organization such as homeowners associations?
MS. GREENE: No. The Sunshine Law applies only to local
government boards.
MR. MILLER: Does the Sunshine Law apply to a meeting
between County Commissioner and a private citizen?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. The Sunshine Law only applies to
certain discussions between two members of the same board.
Please note that any action taken in violation of the Sunshine is
void and may result in criminal fines and even jail time.
MR. MILLER: What are the consequences if a public board or
commission fails to comply with the Sunshine Law?
MR. KLATZKOW: It is a second-degree misdemeanor to
knowingly violate the Sunshine Law, punishable with a fine of up
$500 and/or up to 60 days imprisonment. Other penalties includes
removal from your position and payment of attorney's fees incurred
by the challenging party as well as declaratory injunctive relief.
Colleen and I will now discuss with you Florida's public records
law.
MS. GREENE: So what is a public record? A public record is
any document or other material made or received by an agency or
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employee in connection with official business.
MR. KLATZKOW: The Public Records Law applies to all
county business and all county advisory board business, and that
includes your e-mails, letters, meeting notes, and any memos or
agreements that you might prepare regarding your county advisory
board service. The Public Records Law does not apply to any
personal e-mails or documents.
As an advisory board member, any correspondence or e-mails to
or from you related to your advisory service is a public record.
Public records must be maintained pursuant to Florida law. I
recommend saving your county-related documents on a computer or
disk or as a hard copy. When leaving your county advisory board
service, you may provide all of the public records in your possession
to your county staff liaison. Remember that you cannot have
two-way communication outside of the Sunshine Law with fellow
advisory board members. So any one-way communication should be
directed towards your staff liaison. Any e-mail communications
regarding advisory board service becomes public records. This
includes your e-mail address and the e-mail address of the person that
you're communicating with.
MS. GREENE: Certain public records are protected such as
Social Security numbers. The County Attorney's Office reviews
responses to public records requests for any exemptions that may
apply.
MR. KLATZKOW: The county has a formal written process
on handling public records requests. Any public records request that
you receive should be forwarded to your county staff liaison. A
violation of the Public Records Act carries both civil and criminal
penalties.
MR. MILLER: How does someone make a public records
request?
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MS. GREENE: A public records request may be as formal as a
written request or as informal as a telephone call, with everything in
between.
MR. MILLER: Is the person making the request required to fill
out an application or other form?
MS. GREENE: No. The important thing is to find out what
records are being asked for and getting a copy of those records to the
requester within a reasonable time. Please forward any public
records requests that you may receive to your county staff liaison.
MR. KLATZKOW: We will now chat with you regarding
problems with using social media for public business.
MS. GREENE: So what do we mean by social media? Social
media tools include Facebook, Twitter, Instant Messaging, YouTube,
and Instagram.
MR. KLATZKOW: Florida's Sunshine and Public Records
Laws were written years ago in an era of file cabinets. With that
said, there is no social media exception to the Sunshine and Public
Records Laws.
MS. GREENE: All county-related records are public records.
It doesn't matter if the record is an e-mail on your computer, a Tweet,
or other social media posting.
MR. KLATZKOW: Social media activity is a public record.
Regardless of the platform, if the post, Tweet, image, or other
material otherwise meets the standards for a public record, it is a
public record. It must be retained, and it must be producible for
inspection for copying if requested.
MS. GREENE: Advisory board members must not engage in
any discussion or exchange on social media on any matter that may
foreseeably come before the advisory board. This includes
comments being exchanged on a matter that may be discussed at your
advisory board between two or more members of the same advisory
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board on any type of social media platform.
MR. MILLER: Should I ever use my personal social media for
county advisory board business?
MR. KLATZKOW: No. We recommend against doing this.
An advisory board member may inadvertently violate either the
Public Records Law or the Sunshine Law.
Colleen and I will now discuss with you both state and Collier
County ethics laws.
MS. GREENE: A county advisory board member cannot say
that he or she was not aware of the ethics laws that apply to each of
you as advisory board members. The purpose of our presentation
today is to make all advisory board members aware of the ethics laws
that apply so that you may contact the County Attorney's Office when
faced with a potential ethics issue.
There are two areas of ethics laws that apply to you as county
advisory board members. First is state law found in Chapter 112 of
the Florida Statutes, and second is Collier County Ethics Ordinance,
which is our local law.
Jeff will now briefly discuss the State Ethics Law.
MR. KLATZKOW: Florida law provides that neither you nor
your family can take anything from anybody in connection with your
county attorney board service. This provision applies to county
employees and advisory board members. You may not accept
anything of value in connection with your advisory board service.
For example, advisory board members and their families may
not be provided with free admission or membership to a local event
or club based on his or her service to an advisory board. Florida law
provides that there's nothing about your county advisory board
service that entitles you to any benefit or special treatment from
anybody. An advisory board member cannot enjoy a free lunch
from a local restaurant of a person doing business with the advisory
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board with the expectation that the advisory board member's service
will be influenced one way or the other.
Pursuant to Florida law, you cannot profit from information you
receive in connection with your county advisory board service. This
is a matter of professional responsibility. An example would be an
advisory board member buying land knowing that the county will be
needing it for a future road project.
MS. GREENE: Under Florida law, if you have a private
business, you cannot do business with the county. A county
advisory board member who owns a family screen printing business
cannot sell T-shirts to the Parks and Recreation Department.
Another example is a county advisory board member who owns
a landscaping company. That person cannot enter into a contract
with the county to provide landscaping services to the county. There
is an exception to these rules for advisory board members. The
Board of County Commissioners can waive these rules with a
supermajority vote of the Board. You will need to review the
potential conflict with your staff liaison and the County Attorney's
Office.
MR. KLATZKOW: Under Florida law, as an advisory board
member you are required to vote on matters that come before your
board for a vote unless there is an actual conflict or perceived
conflict. Provided that you have reviewed your agenda prior to the
meeting, you will be aware of matters that may present a conflict for
you.
Should you see an actual perceived conflict, call us to discuss.
We will provide you with a necessary form to complete for the voting
conflict.
An advisory board member may not vote on any matter which
may benefit you in any way or benefit a relative or business
associate. Should a matter be discussed at your advisory board
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where you believe you may receive a benefit from it, please see us,
and we will review it with you prior to the meeting. When in doubt,
abstain from voting to avoid potential conflict.
MS. GREENE: There are exemptions to voting conflicts which
may apply. For example, at the time of the vote, the benefit may be
remote or speculative or uncertain or, depending on the size and the
number of people affected, the class may be so large that there may
not be a special benefit to you as an advisory board member.
MR. KLATZKOW: If you have a voting conflict, you must not
vote on the matter. You must announce the nature of the conflict
before the vote takes place and file a memorandum of voting conflict.
Your staff liaison will assist you with the process.
In addition, you may not participate in discussion in an attempt
to influence the outcome.
MS. GREENE: Florida law provides for an optional absentia
provision and applies when there is or may be a possible conflict of
interest. You may abstain from voting in order to avoid any
perceived bias or prejudice. If you abstain from voting, you will be
required to complete a memo of voting conflict under this provision,
and your staff liaison or County Attorney's Office will assist you with
this process.
MR. KLATZKOW: Some advisory board members are
required to complete a limited financial disclosure form pursuant to
state laws. Those advisory boards include the Collier County Code
Enforcement Board, the Collier County Planning Commission, and
the Collier County Water and Wastewater Authority. If you are a
member of any one of these three boards, please see us. In addition
to being removed from your advisory board, you are subject to a state
fine up to $10,000.
We will now discuss the Collier County Ethics Ordinance.
MS. GREENE: Collier County's Ethics Ordinance has a no gift
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policy. Like the state, county employees and advisory board
members are prohibited from accepting any gift or any other thing of
monetary value from anyone that has an interest that may be affected
by the performance or nonperformance of their duties.
There are limited exceptions to the no gift policy. Some of
these exceptions include gifts from relatives, unsolicited advertising
or promotional materials, gifts for participation in a seminar, an
award of nominal commercial value, and food or beverage when
offered to all attendees at a conference or business meeting up to a $4
value. When in doubt, please ask. Better yet, just say no or pay for
the food or beverage yourself.
MR. KLATZKOW: Depending upon the severity of the
violation, your primary punishment for violating the county ethics
ordinance will be removal from service on the advisory board. Note
that violating the county's ethics ordinance may violate the state
ethics laws as well.
MR. MILLER: What are the most common violations of the
county's ethics ordinance?
MR. KLATZKOW: Every year we get questions involving
Christmas or holiday gifts. Gifts from the public or those whom you
do county business with may not be accepted and must be returned.
The county ethics ordinance is very strict. If anyone tries to
pay for your lunch in connection with your county job, please say no
and pay for your own lunch. With all that said, if you ever have any
question involving an ethics issue, please call us. We are not the
ethics police. We are here to help you, and we will keep your
question confidential. My advice, call us, don't e-mail us. Again
remember, e-mails are public records.
If you want, we will gladly give you a written legal opinion on
what you can or can't do. We cannot help you after the fact. When
in doubt, please call us.
July 20, 2021
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(Video ended.)
MR. MILLER: And that's it.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you, Troy.
So just to follow up on this, there was a lot of information
presented. This is a regional stakeholders task force including
representation from the cities as well as the county. It's being hosted
by Collier County, but we felt, in an abundance of caution, that we
would provide you all of the information on the Sunshine Law and
ethics. And if there are any questions, staff is available as well as
the County Attorney for those individual questions, as was stated in
the video.
We will have -- once we have a quorum present in the room at
the next meeting, we have written-up rules of procedure which will
cover some of the items that came out in the first portion of the video
absent of a Board of County Commissioners resolution, because this
is a regional stakeholders group.
So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Commissioner Taylor
for her overview.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. In that overview, we are
not going to discuss the rules of procedure, or did you want to do
that?
MS. PATTERSON: We are not going to discuss the rules of
procedure unless you'd just like to go over them informally. We
can't take a motion on them because we need 11 members in the
room in order to do that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I think, as we've got folks here,
let's continue. Let's review these, and then -- and then certainly
the -- there's two questions I have. We have some folks that have
alternates and they're considered -- they're not considered as one
member.
So when you have an alternate, they cannot speak to the other
July 20, 2021
Page 20
person on the committee, so that's important to know that. And I
don't -- I believe this is your last opportunity -- this is -- you're here
today and gone tomorrow?
MR. BROWN: Probably.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. All right. Very good.
MR. BROWN: I'm just here to listen.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right, good. So will you
continue being Mr. McMahon's alternate?
MR. BROWN: Yes, when he won't be here.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. So you -- so, therefore,
the numbers are firm. Okay, good.
Let's just -- let's just review briefly the rules of procedure.
We've named -- it's pretty self-explanatory. We've named the task
force the stakeholders task force. By the way, for those of you who
I've talked to and for those who I haven't talked to -- and as a matter
of fact, I'm going to get up here because it's a lot easier. I can look
at everybody.
We're going to have a technical task force, too. So what is
going to happen -- this task force is critical because what we are
going to do is have you bring your concerns, and then we are going to
review the concerns, and we are going to make sure there's no
overlap. An example of overlap would be, well, you know, I live on
Second Avenue -- wait, wait, wait -- Fourth Avenue North. No,
Second Avenue North in the City of Naples, and there's no plan here.
What happened? And Marco Island says, there's no plan here.
What happened? That's an overlap, right?
So now we're going to condense that to say there are -- there are
specific regions within this plan that have not been addressed.
That's -- so that everyone understands we're addressing it, but we
may not pinpoint specifically the area.
The technical task force will be meeting once we do our work
July 20, 2021
Page 21
here, and we are not anticipating that this is going to take months and
months. The thought is that we would have these meetings. We
would try to keep them within an hour, and we'd get our work done,
and then it would go to the technical task force. That's where the
real work begins in terms of the technical knowledge, the experts, not
only the ones that have been hired by certain neighborhoods but
certainly by the county and the cities involved in it.
(Janet Ferry is now present via Zoom.)
They will be interfacing with -- with the Army Corps throughout
this process. It's going to take two years. We have two years to do
this. Now everyone says, oh, thank goodness, you know. Now I
can go on vacation. It's going to take every bit of that, because
there's going to be going to the Army Corps. They're coming back
and saying, no, we don't like that. And so the technical task force is
going to say, okay, what about this? And they're going to say, okay,
that's fine.
We've got some folks very gifted and very learned in natural
beach resiliency in terms of plantings, things like that. They're part
of that technical task force.
What our charge will be -- over the next meeting or two or three
meetings is to get the issues before the task force; that we, as a group,
are very comfortable, yes, we've covered it all.
I don't know if there's any questions. I'm talking a lot.
Okay. So the purpose is is that we're going to review -- the task
force will review the feasibility study and pretty much what I just
said, delineate stakeholders' concerns here and evaluate public
comment on the same. And I do think we have some public
comment here today, or public here. Then with the assistance of the
technical advisory group of subject matter experts, create a final
report to present to the Army Corps. The earliest they need it is July
of 2023, correct? Deputy County Manager, right?
July 20, 2021
Page 22
MS. PATTERSON: That's correct. There is an appropriations
and authorization process that has not even begun yet. So this is that
window of opportunity we have before the real design and
engineering work begins. Should we conclude our business sooner,
of course, the more time we have with the Army Corps the better we
are. But this is not an eminent construction situation for anyone
right now.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: We're advisory only. We can't
tell them what to do. I think we found out -- if anyone was at the
commission meeting, we found out very clearly there was no telling
the Army Corps of Engineers what to do, and they're consistent, and
that's a blessing in so many ways.
The final report's going to be available on the county's website
and provided to both the City of Marco Island and the City of Naples
for their posting when submitted for general public distribution and
review. So when you're representing a city or your neighborhood,
you can see how important your roles are. This is really very
critical, because you're going to be representing all the diverse
concerns out there. And, you know, that's -- that's a thank you for
doing this and, also, a watch out for doing it.
Okay. So this is new to me, but it looks like the chair of the
Collier County Board of Commissioners shall serve as Chair of the
task force. That would be me. I'm chair of the county -- we're
going to vote on this, by the way, and there will be a chair and 20
voting members appointed by the Chair from community
stakeholders.
So I think what we're -- what we're moving towards is if we
can't get a quorum, we may change that number so that we can get a
quorum, because I think it's -- and if you disagree with me, now's the
time to talk. But I think it's critical, critical that we take motions;
that we're very clear and precise on what it is we want and that we
July 20, 2021
Page 23
vote on it as a group.
And then this, again, will be recorded. We need a quorum, of
course. If you're going -- if you want to resign, if this all is a little
too much for you, then just send us a letter, if you would. And you
can send that through e-mail. That's quite all right.
The meetings will -- are going to comply with the Sunshine
Law, Florida Statutes, and a public notice will be given per Collier
County protocol.
The task force shall meet at least once per calendar quarter with
more frequent meetings as necessary. I would assume -- and I'm
going to leave this open. Please, if you want me -- if you want to get
some information or, you know, you want to stop, just raise your
hand. We'll talk. But I'm thinking initially we're probably going to
meet a little bit more than once a quarter, because we've got to get
this final document to everyone.
The task force then will go to work. Then we will follow up,
perhaps, with quarterly meetings where the task force -- because I
believe, Deputy County Manager, you are going to be on the task
force, the technical task force also, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: That is correct. I will be on the technical
task force along with other members of staff, consultants, and people
from the scientific community. And we have engineers. We are
finalizing, and we will provide to you the final makeup of that
technical task force. But we're in the process of assembling it now.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. BROWN: Just so I'm clear, the feasibility study is already
done?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That is correct.
MR. BROWN: And are we going to review it as a group, or
can we review it individually, or is it online?
MS. PATTERSON: All three. Again, Amy Patterson for the
July 20, 2021
Page 24
record.
So there's a really good presentation, a high-level overview that
was given to the Board of County Commissioners. We can provide
that information to all of the members here. That's a great starting
place.
There was also a lot of public comment given on the concerns.
We're not going to ask people to come and have to restate those
comments. We're going to use those as part of this process, but it's a
good way to orient yourself.
So what we'll do is we'll send out the links to that information as
well as the technical reports, and then we can talk about them to the
extent that it's reasonable, while we collect these comments that are
ultimately going to be passed over to the technical group.
MR. NORDMAN: Has a date been set for the next meeting?
MS. PATTERSON: It has not yet. We can talk about that a
little bit and see kind of where people's calendars lie and see what we
can do to facilitate a better membership attendance in person so that
we can get our work going or, as Commissioner Taylor said, we may
need to revisit the number that we have right now, if people have
committed initially and have thought differently or that they have
representation from somebody else that's, you know, a nearby
neighbor or something like that. There is a way for any citizen,
anybody that's watching online, there's representation on this -- on
this stakeholders' task force here, but you also have your elected
officials from the City of Naples, the City of Marco Island, and from
Collier County where the public can funnel their comments, and
they'll become part of this process.
MR. NORDMAN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. FOGG: Who's the county staff liaison for the task force?
MS. PATTERSON: That would be me.
July 20, 2021
Page 25
MR. FOGG: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: Amy Patterson.
MR. FOGG: Okay, fine. Who's going to appoint the technical
task force?
MS. PATTERSON: We are in the process of assembling the
technical task force based on input that we got from the various
communities. Some communities have actually hired their own
engineers or experts, and we've already accommodated space on the
task force. We also have some folks that have been working on a
parallel path through the NOAA grants. You've maybe heard about
the work done by Dr. Savarese and Dr. Sheng. So we have members
of that team that will be participating as well as the Army Corps and
staff members from all -- both municipalities or all three, if
Everglades is wanting to participate, as well as county staff. But
what we'll do is we'll assemble that list, that final list of the technical
group, and we can discuss that here as well so that everybody is
aware of the final makeup of that group.
MR. FOGG: Yes. If we have an engineer that we use --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. FOGG: -- we can have them participate?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. Their name -- if you could provide
their name, if we don't already have it, then we can have them
participate.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. It's not a closed door.
There's no closed doors here.
MR. FOGG: Okay. And then the July 2023 date, is that a -- is
that a date at which it goes back to the County Commission for
another go-ahead? I mean, this whole process is a bit opaque, right?
And we know the Army Corps aren't particularly good at listening.
So my concern is, you know, we do all this work, and the Army
July 20, 2021
Page 26
Corps takes maybe some of that and not all of it. And at what point
does it -- this thing can't go ahead unless Collier County steps up and
says, "we're going to go along with this," right?
MS. PATTERSON: That's correct. So without Collier County
ultimately signing on as a financial partner, then there is no project,
and in order for us to get to the steps for us to become a financial
partner, they have to go through the federal authorization and
appropriation process. So that's a lengthy process.
But we could go all the way through that and get to the place
where we enter into a funding agreement, and Collier County could
say, we're sorry, this isn't going to work for us. There's nothing that
has committed us to the point where we can't say no, and we have a
long way to go before we enter -- we get to that point.
MR. FOGG: So the July 2023 day, what you're saying, is
somehow important in that process?
MS. PATTERSON: It's the earliest point in time where we
believe that we would be in a position that we needed to make
funding decisions.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Because we're looking
at -- we're looking at this very carefully. I mean, this was decided by
staff, I believe, but also by the Corps and the process itself; is that
correct? Who decided the 2023 date?
MS. PATTERSON: That's just based on the timelines that
were -- that were presented as the way that the study moved forward
as well as the fact that the Corps does have milestones. It's similar
to the conversation that we were having about the three years, three
million dollars.
There's a very distinct process that the Corps uses for anything
that they do. And the federal process is -- it's a difficult process, and
it is hard to understand. We're going to talk a lot more about this as
we move through the process with this group. Some of the things
July 20, 2021
Page 27
that we feel have given the community concerns that can be
explained better, how the authorization and appropriation process
actually works; what is the likelihood that we get to funding. There
are a lot of what-ifs that are in the air right now.
We have no idea what the next WRDA bill is going to even look
like or what kind of money may be available and, remember, we're
competing against other places for this money. So this is not a
guaranteed in 2023 we're getting money and then we're going
forward with construction. There are many, many, many steps that
have to be met with all sorts of checks along the way.
So we're trying to provide some reasonable assurance to the
community that you're not going to wake up tomorrow or any time
soon or ever -- or if it's not the will of the community -- with a
bulldozer in your yard taking down trees and getting ready to build a
giant wall.
This is an inclusive process, and we want to collect everybody's
thoughts and input so that we can make informed decisions and
inform the Corps of what this community really desires in respect to
resilience and beach renourishment.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. NORDMAN: It was my impression that there was some
type of go, no-go date in October 2021; is that correct?
MS. PATTERSON: So at the end of this 10 percent feasibility
portion of the work, there's a transfer of this process to another
division of the Corps. So they've completed -- the group that
worked on this now have essentially completed their -- we'll call
them the preliminary findings, and they're looking now to move into
the next cycle where they hand it off to the Jacksonville district,
which there's a lot of good parts about that. We have relationships
with Jacksonville, not that we don't with the current group. Our
scientists have been working closely with Jacksonville on a lot of
July 20, 2021
Page 28
resilience efforts.
But what -- the no [sic] or no-go was simply the signing of two
nonbinding letters; one, that the county has the financial wherewithal,
should this project get to authorization and appropriation, that we
would be able to partner financially and, second, that we were giving
a general endorsement of moving the plan forward.
That doesn't mean that we agree with everything in the plan. It
means we want to talk more about it. So it was a go or no-go in that
respect, but it doesn't finalize anything.
We're at -- when you think about it, we're at 10 percent
feasibility. There's 90 percent to go. That's a whole lot of design
and engineering decisions that have to be made once we even know
that this project is going to get funding.
So I know there was a lot of concern and focus on that
October -- this coming October date, but that does not commit us to
anything but a continuing conversation, the continuing process.
We've not committed dollars. We have not committed to a final
design or final engineering. So all of that is still subject to
continuing conversations with the Corps, which they committed to.
MR. NORDMAN: Well, the nonbinding letters that were
signed on -- pardon me -- April 27, there were two, are they the same
or related to what's going to be signed or not signed in October?
MS. PATTERSON: Those were the letters that were required
to take us to October.
MR. NORDMAN: I see.
MS. PATTERSON: Otherwise, the project was essentially
dead at that point. The Corps would have tried to work with us some
more to get to that October date, but October is when we're going to
make that -- essentially that transfer to the Jacksonville district and
then start this conversation again with a new group.
MR. NORDMAN: Thank you.
July 20, 2021
Page 29
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. I'm sorry, just so we can
do it, if you'd identify your name for our court reporter.
MS. ROBBINS: I'm Kathy Robbins.
MR. MILLER: Can you get a little closer to your microphone,
please, ma'am.
MS. ROBBINS: I think some of our -- some of us who are here
or not here but on the list received the notice about this meeting fairly
late, not leaving a lot of time to strategize. Because from the Ritz
and Pelican Bay all the way up -- and Naples Cay all the way up to
the area of Wiggins Pass and above, sorry -- and I don't know that
there's any representative here from anything north of Wiggins Pass,
the county, like Barefoot Beach, for instance. So we haven't had a
chance, that maybe we would like to talk among each other to decide
what would be the best way we could effectively cover that section of
the beach because otherwise, once we are formed and under the
Sunshine Law, we can't talk to each other anymore.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, you can talk in here, but
you can't talk out of there. But there is an advantage of having a
small committee, because that's when you can go to the folks in
Barefoot Beach and talk to them and not be concerned that you're
breaking the Sunshine.
MS. ROBBINS: That's my point exactly, Commissioner. I'm
wondering if we have too many representatives from the same area of
the beach. And I know initially we didn't even get a notice of the
meeting, but now it seems like there might be too many of us here.
So are we allowed now that we have met to get together -- and
some of us aren't even in town, so we'll need to wait until everybody's
collected. You know, I'm seeing that the Sunshine Law is going to
get in our way of optimizing our representation on this task force.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So what you're asking for is
more time to organize the neighborhoods?
July 20, 2021
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MS. ROBBINS: Right.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Understanding the way the
structure is, to see which is the best way to represent.
MS. ROBBINS: Right. Because the beach -- there's Clam
Pass, there's Wiggins Pass, there's, you know, the area north of
Wiggins Pass, but it's really all one continuous beach. And what you
do or don't do in one area is going to affect the other areas bigtime.
We all know that.
So I think we might want to be more of a cohesive group to be
on the committee. And I don't know, Clint, if you agree, but it's like,
you know --
MR. BROWN: Well, that being -- there's already 20 -- 20
people that were invited here, and so it would -- somebody would
have to go in order for somebody else to have to come back on, right?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Not necessarily. We can
change the -- this is our inaugural meeting. At this point we don't
even have a quorum. So where is Jeff, right?
MS. PATTERSON: So I would suggest this: Let us talk with
the County Attorney, because we haven't adopted these rules or really
finalized, therefore, the roster or the appointments by the Chair. Let
us confirm with the County Attorney that if we want to consolidate
some of the membership simply -- if that makes more sense, that that
can be done, and we can provide that in a one-way communication,
which I should have said before is you may receive information from
me or other county staff members. You will see them marked as
one-way communication. That's okay. I can talk to all of you, but
when you talk back to me, you just need to respond only to me or
whoever is sending that e-mail, not to the group, and that's okay.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Never to the Chair.
MS. PATTERSON: So what we'll do is we'll talk with the
County Attorney, confirm that we can reconstitute this a little bit, and
July 20, 2021
Page 31
then we can send out a one-way communication, and that also will
help us think about when we want to have the next meeting, and we'll
be able to communicate it that way.
MS. ROBBINS: I suppose also we could have a special
meeting, an official special meeting where we discuss it, all of us.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely.
MS. ROBBINS: I'd say half of us aren't here. So, you know,
it's kind of hard to discuss it. So would you get back to us on that?
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. We will talk with County
Attorney's Office, and we will provide you back a one-way
communication saying, yes, you're free to speak amongst yourselves
or, no, it needs to be done in this way, or we need to have a special
meeting. We'll get you some guidance.
MS. ROBBINS: All right.
MR. CUNY: Clint Cuny.
Yeah, I think in terms of group size, the most important factor is
that it's broad representation of all the stakeholders, you know, but
the real work, based on my experience, is reaching out to the
communities and getting feedback, and whether you have six or 20
isn't as important as us reaching out to get the feedback, inviting them
to meetings, and bringing their thoughts, and that's hard work, so...
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And, again, we were hoping
that there was enough of an awareness of this that perhaps there
would be folks that don't care, but there would be some folks that
care, and the people that care have already voiced their concerns.
I don't see us as an advisory board that has some kind of, not
secret, but very quiet mission that no one knows anything about. I
think this received a lot of attention. I think the city councils will
attest to that.
I think -- I think for you, individually, and in your position,
wherever you are, on the coast or in neighborhoods, is to ask yourself
July 20, 2021
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personally, well, will -- you know, will -- Jane Smith and John Doe,
will they be happy that I can come back to them and talk to them?
Because if they're on this committee, I can't talk to them, and
that's -- that's the key. That's the key.
MS. ROBBINS: Bingo, bingo.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: It seems like
self-aggrandizement, but you almost need to appoint yourself, to your
satisfaction, as the representative of these number of neighborhoods
on this committee, and then I think you'll have a lot easier time with
it.
MS. ROBBINS: I can almost see there being a sub-consortium
of people with the North Collier beach and interests that would
support a candidate on this task force and be the conduit to and from
the community to their --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's right.
MS. ROBBINS: Like, we have Vanderbilt Beach. You have
Pelican Bay. You know, you have the Waterways. We each
represent a different aspect of it, and together we present a good
picture. But if we can't talk outside the meeting, it's going to be a
real hamper to us --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Right.
MS. ROBBINS: -- in saying how do we really want to handle,
for instance, Wiggins Pass, okay. It's going to be a hot topic.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah.
MS. ROBBINS: So you'll get back to me on that?
MS. PATTERSON: We will get back to you with some
guidance.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right. So we'll just go
quickly through. We're at meetings now. I think it's C, the task
force meetings will be governed by Robert's Rules of Order. That's
just, again, to make sure there's clarity in what we do for all of us and
July 20, 2021
Page 33
for those who will review the minutes and those who are viewing.
We'll set the agenda and time allotment for each task force
meeting. They will be publicly noticed.
Task force members will be given the option of appearing
remotely via Zoom, and they will adjourn at the scheduled time,
which is a minute from now -- we're not -- this is our first meeting, so
I'm not going to worry about it -- unless the task force votes to
continue the meeting until a specific time.
Public records will be maintained -- will be maintained. The
minutes of the prior meetings approved -- will be approved by us
each meeting, and -- the majority of members present, and they will
become official minutes.
Each person and task force member attending a meeting should
observe proper decorum, not speak until recognized by the Chair, not
use disparaging or abusive language -- sorry, we just went through
Tuesday, so I think that's why that's in here -- nor make threats
against any other person during a task force meeting.
And then, finally, we will provide for public comment as a
regular order of business on posted items. And there will be -- they
will fill out a card for public comment. We'll waive that today if our
public would like to speak, but there will be a way to register and
write it down as you would in a normal meeting. And normally I
think we could -- unless something is really breaking, I think three
minutes is a fair time, if we are all in agreement, for a public speaker.
The idea is that we get to work, do it efficiently. A lot of you
have other things to do, I'm sure, busy in your lives. So the idea is to
work hard and to work efficiently in a time period allowing the public
to speak and certainly allowing you to speak and bring your ideas to
the table.
There is one question I wanted to ask. What do you suggest
that -- I know we've received some e-mails about concerns about the
July 20, 2021
Page 34
plan itself, but you may have -- you may have just not written an
e-mail. I think they came from folks who hired engineers. How do
you want these concerns sent? Do you want these sent in writing, or
can they be verbally delivered?
MS. PATTERSON: It's really the preference of the citizen
that's providing the comment. My thought was that we will go pull
the public comment from the Board items that we've had prior so that
people aren't required to give us their comments again -- we probably
have received some e-mails, like you said -- and then we'll document
any other information that comes in other ways.
I would assume, when we're all the way organized, that a lot of
comments will funnel through the task force members, then to this
committee so that that will be a way that citizens know that they can
go to their -- to any of the representatives or their specific
representatives or, if not, to their county or city representative to
provide comment.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: We can think about it, if you'd like, and if
we prefer written comment, I don't -- I don't know that it matters.
We just need to make sure that we have a way to identify them and
collect them so that we do know that we have captured things that the
citizens are providing.
MR. HUTCHISON: Madam Chair?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. HUTCHISON: If I may. There are some, perhaps, at this
meeting today that have prepared and have been attending the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineer meeting, probably such as yourself and
others here, that have taken the time to develop very specific
questions that, if the opportunity exists, we'd like to get those on the
record.
So we also have -- the City of Naples has drafted a letter to the
July 20, 2021
Page 35
Army Corps back in August 31st of 2020. We would like to make
sure that this letter is part of the record so that our residents can see
what we've communicated. And then in addition to the letter, there
are several things that if -- again, if opportunity is provided today,
we're prepared to make concise questions and concerns as part of the
record and hopefully consideration going forward.
Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: So my only concern --
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: Madam Chair?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: Pamela Nicholls here.
I just think it's absolutely vital that the task force members fully
understand the timeline and the process. The chiefs -- the state and
agency review ends in September. The chief signs off on the report
October 8, and then what happens? I think we need to be absolutely
clear about where we're going with the task force and how we can
communicate our concerns. Is it only in the preconstruction
development engineering phase or -- I wish Amy could just explain
precisely where we are in the process.
MS. PATTERSON: So the -- that's correct, the chief's report is
to be signed in October which begins the state -- the federal
authorization and appropriation process. We've been given no
indication that through that process that we can't continue to work
with the Corps. The Corps has accepted and has promised that they
are here to work with us.
My suggestion, because we don't have a quorum, both on this
and on entry into the public record of statements that are specific to
the Corps' work or concerns, is that as we move forward, once we've
established the membership of this task force, that one of the first
orders of business is to walk through that "next steps." The Corps
had a nice presentation on this when they were in front of the Board
July 20, 2021
Page 36
last time; pretty easy to understand simplified.
We'll go through that again for the benefit of everybody,
including anybody that's participating out there by Zoom or watching
this on television. That way if there are more specific questions or
technical questions, those are things we'll add to the list to get
clarified by the Corps.
And as far as the public comment and entering it into the public
record, of course we can hand any written statements to Terri, but
because we're not operating with a quorum, we're not conducting
official business, this is more of an informational meeting. I would
also suggest that we are attempting to make sure that when we're
taking these comments that we're then avoiding the repetitive or
duplication of comments.
So there's going to be a process where we're collecting all of
these. We're going to look at them together and make sure that
everybody's comments are covered. But, as Commissioner Taylor
accurately portrayed, the City of Marco Island, Pelican Bay, parts of
the City of Naples all have similar concerns about being partially or
completely left out of the plan.
So a comment to the Corps will be that we want to talk about the
areas being left out of the plan and what are the options for them, but
rather than listing them five separate ways, to be able to be sure that
we can be the most concise and get the most accurate information
back and avoid some of the confusion that I believe has inadvertently
happened because of the complications of this process.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And as far as that part, talking
to the Corps about it, but also the technical task force will take it.
Okay. The Corps' left it out. We know they're going to leave it out.
What can we do as a technical task force? What could we suggest
be implemented in order to give these neighborhoods a sense of
protection? So it's that give and take.
July 20, 2021
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MR. FOGG: Michael Fogg again.
On that issue, is the technical task force going to have any
county resources to do -- to do -- to essentially hire, you know,
engineering consultants to develop an alternative to the, I mean,
Corps' proposal, or are we going to have to fund our own
engineering --
MS. PATTERSON: The county currently has engineers on
contract, some that have been helping through this process initially,
so they're very familiar with the Corps process as well as this
10 percent feasibility as well as additional engineers that we're
bringing on board who are experts in things like coastal resilience.
So we will have enough -- we'll have really good help on the county's
side.
And the cities, obviously, are welcome to bring forward any
experts, both their staff or hired experts that they may have. And
like we said, as well as anyone that may have already retained their
own engineering firms or other experts. We're looking for this to be
very inclusive. But to answer your question directly, yes, the county
already has consultants on board that will be participating in this
process.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I think this is accurate for
those who are still saying but what if, I believe that this -- the final
plan -- what the decision is of this task force, working with the
technical task force, and then say there's a plan and it goes to the
Army Corps, and the Army Corps says, yeah, we can do it, I believe
it has to come before the Commission.
MS. PATTERSON: Nothing can be constructed or even go to
final design and engineering without a funding agreement from the
county. And a funding agreement from the county requires the
Board of County Commissioners to take action.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So we're going to be involved
July 20, 2021
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in this. Our eyes are on this. It's an odd way of doing things, I
know. It got us all very anxiety ridden, you know. I learned as a
commissioner, I heard that, oh, we're going to widen the beaches and
we're going to make the beaches resilient and we're going to do some
dunes, and I thought this was great until I saw the plan.
So, you know, this is -- this is what we're going to do now is
really give it daylight and really work into it and work with experts.
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: Madam Commissioner, may I just
intercede one moment? Sorry to be talking on the screen.
So, Amy, I believe what you said previously was that once
Congress approves the plan, that's when the rubber hits the road for
the county -- for county's funding. Is that -- is that accurate?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. Once this goes -- this plan goes
through federal authorization and appropriation, which is the dollars,
is when the decisions have to be made by the county of whether this
is something that we are going to participate in or not. That is when
we're going to have to make a financial commitment.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So they're going to have to
agree -- this plan -- this revised plan -- because I know it's going to be
revised if, indeed, we even get the Corps to agree to what I think
we're headed for. So assuming there is some agreement, then what
will happen is they'll say, okay, we're going to get it in the pipeline
for appropriations. At that point we, as a county, have to come
forward and say, okay, you're going to participate, we're going to
participate, and we agree to what, 35 percent, right, of the cost of the
plan. And it's done in stages. It's not the whole thing.
MR. NORDMAN: And, Amy, the earliest that that could
happen would be July '23?
MS. PATTERSON: That is the date that we've been given
barring any kind of -- anything exceptional, some kind of rapid
appropriations process or some sort of change in legislation.
July 20, 2021
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I think everybody's -- you know, you can guess at what the
federal government's going to do, and I think that we're just trying to
put a reasonable expectation on when it would be likely to -- the
earliest it would be likely to fund. And I think another important
point is, is there are elements of this plan that are probably more
agreeable to more people than other things. We like the higher,
wider beaches, but maybe we don't like the floodgates so much.
There are opportunities to implement portions of the plan.
Some of that ties back to the cost-benefit. But there is nothing that
says you'll build everything or you'll build nothing. There's a ton of
room between, and there is nothing that says that the county can't
have its own resilience plan that is compatible to or augments
portions of the Corps plan.
So there's a lot of different ways this can be looked at. We
were looking at resilience in one way prior to the Corps engaging in
Collier County, and that doesn't mean that that can't happen again or
that that can't continue as a parallel path to this Corps activities.
So I want to try to reassure everybody here as well as anybody
listening is that there are no final decisions that have been made.
There is no eminent construction. There is nothing that's been
decided for you that we're not going to continue to talk about and that
we will not take full public participation in.
MR. NORDMAN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. All right. Well, I think
that pretty much takes us through to the public comment. And so are
we -- listening is fascinating. Listening to this conversation, I'm
thinking on my feet, but one of the things I was wondering, would it
be helpful -- and we wouldn't need a quorum if you wanted to.
Would it be helpful for us at another meeting to review -- we'll send
you the PowerPoint that the Army Corps is -- actually send you a link
to the meeting, because you'll see some of -- hear some of the
July 20, 2021
Page 40
questions.
Would it be helpful at our next meeting to review that whole
plan again if you have any questions? And then -- and that gives
you time also to find -- to create an organization of the areas that you
think should be represented by you as the task force member, and
then we can maybe have that as our next meeting. Because that's
going to take a little bit of time.
And then after that, we -- then at that point I think there should
be enough time to start gathering, if you haven't already, some valid
concerns about the plan as presented. Does that work with
everyone?
MR. BROWN: Yes.
MR. DeMARCO: Yes.
MS. ROBBINS: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: Feel free to forward any concerned -- any
concerns, any citizen concerns that may come to you that -- if it's
outside of your area or anything else, feel free. I have my cards
here. I'll hand one to everybody. Feel free to forward them to us,
and we'll start cataloging those as well so we're sure we're
documenting all of this public input.
We were going to give a little homework assignment here at the
end of this meeting, but I think we've pretty well covered that. The
process is going to be we're going to attempt to collect as much input,
as much public information about this plan, and then funnel it
through this stakeholders group and consolidate those questions,
concerns, comments, so that we'll be able to forward a concise
package to the technical group, and they can begin their work.
MS. ROBBINS: Are you going to forward us a link to the
presentation?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, we will.
July 20, 2021
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MS. ROBBINS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. FOGG: So in terms of getting -- to the gentleman's point
here about getting the existing -- I mean, some of us have done a fair
amount of work on this already, right.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. FOGG: So to the extent those exist, some of it was
forwarded directly to the Corps, and so it disappeared into a black
hole, and nobody got a response. Should we send those to you at
this point, or should we wait until the next meeting?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, start the process.
MS. PATTERSON: You can absolutely send all of those to
me. And let me also just comment really quickly on the process for
federal -- when the federal comment period opens. I know a lot of
us are used to pretty easy exchange of information even amongst our
elected officials. I have a question for Commissioner Taylor, I
might send her an e-mail. She may answer me back in an e-mail, or
she may give me a phone call.
What happens in these federal comment periods is that this
comment period opens where there's questions and questions and
questions that are submitted. The Corps then takes all of those
questions, and they look at them and they categorize them, they study
them, and then they start to answer them.
It isn't that you're never going to get an answer or that they
haven't heard you, but this federal process dictates a different manner
of communication than one that, you know, you're typically used to.
All of this public input is going to be addressed through that final
report or that final report for this phase where you'll see the questions
and answers.
Now, they may be grouped together. Again, areas that may not
receive any protections or, you know, why are the dunes so high. So
you may see them, like, grouped together and answered in that way.
July 20, 2021
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But please be assured that the Corps takes the public comment very
seriously, and the intent is to fully address, to the best of their ability,
those questions and concerns that they've been collecting for nearly
three years.
MR. FOGG: So when does that report come out? When do
we see that? When can we see the Q and A part of that?
MS. PATTERSON: I believe that's going to happen this fall,
but we'll get a confirmation on that for you.
MR. HUTCHISON: Madam Chair?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Right here, and then you, Terry.
MR. NORDMAN: Ron Nordman.
There was an initial comment period in -- I think that ended
September 14, 2020, and there were numerous letters. It was
mentioned by the City of Naples, by the Pelican Bay Foundation, by
Naples Cay Masters Association, et cetera. To the best of my
knowledge, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers never even advised
the receipt of those documents. So I question just how interested is
the Army Corps of Engineers, in our opinion?
MS. PATTERSON: I can't speak for the Army Corps, of
course, but I have never been given any sense or indication that they
are not interested in public comment or the thoughts of the
community. I don't think that they want to spend three years and
money in a community to have a project be ill received or fail.
Now, whether that actually is what happens, that's a different
matter. But when we come forward and we talk about this process,
we'll give you some more -- try to get some more clarification on the
public-comment period, when we can expect to see some of those
answers. And, ultimately, we're going to be talking with the Corps.
So anything that's left unturned or new questions, they're going to be
taken right back to the Corps, and we're going to talk about this
again.
July 20, 2021
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So we want to assure you that we understand this is -- this has
been very -- very upsetting for large segments of the coastal
community, and that is unfortunate that that has happened, and we
want to do everything that we can to make sure that this is a fully
transparent process where people feel they can ask questions and get
answers. Even if it's not the answers that you want to hear, an
answer's an answer.
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: Madam Chair?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: One minute.
Mr. Hutchison.
MR. HUTCHISON: Thank you, Madam Chair.
So just a few questions. First of all, after going through the
advisory board ethics and that guidance provided there, could you
please describe how information such as the letter that the City of
Naples drafted and other communications that have taken place, how
that's going to be shared with this task force.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. So we -- anything that's
going to be forward -- so has been forwarded or will be forwarded,
because I'm assuming, then, that anything that hasn't been already
copied to the county -- and we may already have a copy of that,
your -- the comments from the City of Naples.
We will put together as -- a package of the existing comments.
We also have extensive comments from when this was heard by the
Board of County Commissioners.
So on the staff side, we will assemble all of those comments just
like the members of the task force will be assembling comments as
we move through this process, and we will bring those forward and
review them here as a group so that when we hand off to the technical
task force, we ensure that we've checked off that we have properly
documented, catalogued, and categorized this public comment.
MR. HUTCHISON: Excellent. And then a follow-up
July 20, 2021
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question. There's been discussion -- you made statements about how
the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is going to handle communication
coming from Collier County in this task force. Can you put that in
writing? In other words, provide some guidance as to what -- as to
the precise dated timelines identifying where the residents of Collier
County can make their concerns and questions known on the most
recent version of the feasibility study and well before the study
becomes a plan, which then might become problematic to change for
the benefit of the community.
So I prefer, and I think most people prefer clear, direct
information as to how they can impact or provide concerns and
questions, and that's what the City of Naples is looking for.
Understanding that there's no obligation to respond -- we're hoping
they respond -- but I really want to make sure we're not missing key
dates, and I'd like to see that in writing.
Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. And, secondly, this task
force is currently our best vehicle to communicate -- ultimately
communicate with the Corps through the technical group and then
back through bringing those two groups together and communicating
with the Corps. The Corps has indicated to us, up and to this
point -- and there is -- I have no reason to believe they're changing
their mind. They want to hear us. They know we've formed this
task force and these groups of stakeholders, and they have committed
to continuing to work with us.
So we'll map out some time frames. But, again, anybody that's
listening, anybody here in the room, there is absolutely no prohibition
on you providing any comments prior, current, or future directly to
me or to your members of county staff if you've been working with
Andy Miller or, in the future, Mr. Matt McLean, who took my
position in Capital Project Planning. The three of us are happy to
July 20, 2021
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receive any information that you have.
MR. HUTCHISON: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And Mr. McLean is at the back
of the room. He's here.
Would it be helpful -- I can ask my assistant. It would -- slight
delay, but I can get all of you a copy of the PowerPoint that we
received from the Army Corps that day of the meeting, a hard copy.
Would it be helpful to take that back with you? Your call. If it's
not important, don't worry about it. It will be online.
MR. FOGG: Is this the 130 --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, no, no. This is a
very -- strongly visual -- you know, we're going to spend two billion
dollars, but we only guarantee 36 percent success.
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: Madam Chair?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MS. YOUNG-NICHOLLS: I just want to follow up
Mr. Hutchison's comments. We recently surveyed our members, and
the biggest takeaway from that survey is the limited -- very limited
understanding of the plan and all its components.
And it's really, really important that we publicize the activity of
this task force to the greater community so that they can respond.
And I know that's partly our job as representatives of our various
associations. But how -- what is the plan to publicize the work of
the task force and generate some collaboration with the wider
community? Because gaining support, you know, of the community,
it's going to need extensive communication and education, and I
really don't feel that that has happened to date.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, these meetings -- these
meetings are going to be, of course, archived and available on, what,
Facebook, and --
MR. MILLER: On archive, both.
July 20, 2021
Page 46
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: On the archive, both and the
county website. So in terms of that, that is available but, of course,
someone has to ask for it, and that's when we depend on the
community leaders to make sure that the people that you represent
know that these are available, these -- and where to find this
information and that we're open for comments. That's why I think
our next meeting we're going to spend a little time explaining the
plan.
And, frankly, you know, I don't remember -- I don't think I read,
but I think Mr. Fogg did, how many pages of --
MR. NORDMAN: Sixteen hundred.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Eight hundred. Yeah, I don't
think any of us are going to be going through 800 pages.
MR. NORDMAN: Sixteen hundred.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: The visual -- the strong visual
of the PowerPoint was very helpful. I mean, I think you can kind of
get it very clearly. But, you know, there's some very interesting
questions, like how did they -- and this is one of your questions.
Who did the Corps go to for the appraisal of the properties? Because
the whole denominator of this plan is it has to -- the plan has to
protect a certain percentage of the value to justify the expense of the
resiliency plan. And so I thought that was a fascinating question.
And I don't -- I don't know if they ever answered that.
MR. NORDMAN: Commissioner, I think it might be useful for
my fellow stakeholder task force members to not only look at the
Army Corps of Engineers summary that we're going to receive -- that
was received on April 27th.
But Google the feasibility study. It's over 1,600 pages. It has
nine appendices. The table of contents does not lead you to the right
page. It's unreadable. But I think if you want to get a true idea of
the Army Corps of Engineers task force, go to the source, go to the
July 20, 2021
Page 47
document. I don't know how many people here have actually done
that. I spent about two weeks trying to slosh through this. It's
tough.
But I think it's worthwhile and to the benefit of this task force
that you give it a look and not just look at the summary. You'll find
the document to be remarkably unreadable.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you. Thank you.
Okay. All right. So if that's all the business, I think we'll
have -- for public comment. Would anyone like to speak?
(No response.)
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. Seeing no one coming
up, I think we are adjourned. We will notify you on the next
meeting, but I'm thinking probably another month, or what's your
sense?
MS. PATTERSON: Let's -- if it's the pleasure of the
committee, let's look at the question about the makeup of the
committee with County Attorney Klatzkow, and once we are able to
reach back out to the committee and give some guidance on that, if
we're looking to consolidate it a little bit, then we can set a date for a
future meeting, because it may be a smaller group we're dealing with
at that point. But you're right, probably -- at least probably three
weeks to be able to allow people to start thinking about gathering
comment and such.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Before Labor Day; how is that?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right. Thank you,
everyone. Thank you.
*****
July 20, 2021
Page 48
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Commissioner at 12:29 p.m.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, RPR, FPR, COURT
REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.