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CLB Minutes 06/20/2007 R June 20, 2007 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida June 20, 2007 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson Glenn Herriman William Lewis Sydney Blum Ann Keller Richard Joslin Lee Horn Michael Boyd Eric Guite' ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Mike Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor Robert Zachary, County Attorney Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: WEDNESDAY - JUNE 20, 2007 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: May 16, 2007 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Salvatore B. Munizzi - Request to qualify a 20d entity. Carman Mirabal - Review of experience affidavits. Wallace Booth - Review of credit report. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case # 2007-07 John L. Allison, Sr. d/b/a Allison Roofing Systems, Inc. Case #2007-08 Mark Radenbush d/b/a Idyll Construction. Inc. IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: July 18, 2007 3101 E. Tamiami Trail Naples, FL, 34104 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board for June 20,2007. I'd like to start with roll call to my right. MR. HERRIMAN: Glenn Herriman. MR. LEWIS: William Lewis. MR. BLUM: Syd Blum. MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going -- I'm going slow. Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Welcome, Lee. I knew you were commg. Mr. Bartoe, any additions or deletions to the minutes? MR. BARTOE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, board members. For the record, my name is Tom Bartoe. I'm Collier County licensing compliance officer. Staff has one addition to the agenda. I believe, Mr. Chairman, you asked to put emergency meetings after a hurricane on the agenda for discussion, and we need to add that. I don't know, you probably want to put it at the end of the meeting after the hearings. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Hearings. MR. BARTOE: Other than that, staff has no additions or deletions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion that we approve the agenda as written. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. Page 2 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The minutes. Have you all had a chance to look over last month's minutes? I need a motion on those. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: On the hurricane emergency clause, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All we'll offer is, if you remember after Hurricane Wilma it took us three days to get together an emergency meeting. And in the meantime, we had county offices swarmed with tree removal and debris removal, emergency things that couldn't take place. Can we not draft a resolution that would follow Page 3 June 20, 2007 the same guidelines as last year, or when we had Wilma, to where the county can immediately initiate those licenses to be temporary? MR. NEALE: I'd want to look at it a little bit further, but just in an initial reading of the section of the ordinance, it appears that its -- that the board actually would have to declare an emergency contracting trade shortage each time simply because the declaration shall be for a period of time not to exceed six months under the ordinance. So I mean, you could do one every six months, but it can only be done after the declaration of a state of emergency by the Board of County Commissioners. So I'll take a look at it, but it appears, at first blush, that that's not going to be the way it can be done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And then my second question would be, could we do that by a telephone vote? MR. NEALE: As far as I can -- you know, I think that could be specifically authorized. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then I don't think we're going to accomplish anything today following this new route until Mr. Neale gets to research. So let's postpone it for next month. MR. BARTOE: Very good. Then, yes, after research, maybe we'll know more. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MS. KELLER: I think telephone is a good idea because some of us are evacuating anyway, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Moving on. New business, Salvatore Munizzi. Are you present? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Carman Mirabel, are you present? MS. MIRABAL: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would come up here to this podium. I need to have you sworn in. If you would, state your name first. Page 4 June 20, 2007 MS. MIRABAL: Carman Mirabel. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning to you. MS. MIRABAL: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Understand that what we're here for is on your license is just to review experience affidavits. MS. MIRABAL: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Why are we reviewing those? MS. MIRABAL: When I turned in my application, Mr. Ossorio reviewed them, and I believe he contacted one of the contractors who verified my experience on the affidavit, and he decided that it wasn't and he didn't continue with the reviews. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. True, Mr. Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: For the record, Chairman, Michael Ossorio, Collier County contracting licensing supervisor. If you look on -- unfortunately it should have had a number on it but it has not. It's George Schmaelling, president, CRC028488, Florida Homes of Collier County. I did Contact Mr. George Schmaelling. He advised me that he did not see the applicant paint, but he did hire -- he did have houses built for the applicant and the applicant painted their own house. So my opinion was that he -- she or he, the applicant, is an owner/builder and therefore I wouldn't take the -- I wouldn't take the construction verifying experience letters. MR. BLUM: Did you contact Schmaelling or Creasy, any of these other guys? MR. OSSORIO: George Schmaelling, I did. Yes, I did. MR. BLUM: And how about Henry Creasy and -- MR. OSSORIO: No. MR. BLUM: You didn't call them? MR. OSSORIO: (Shakes head.) MR. BLUM: Peter Gutierrez, no? Page 5 June 20, 2007 MS. KELLER: Did you ask George ifhe signed this statement? MR. OSSORIO: Sorry? MS. KELLER: I see his signature here, and it says, painted three homes built. MR. OSSORIO: Yes, he did -- he did sign it. MS. KELLER: Okay. So-- MR. BLUM: So that was an untruth then? MS. KELLER: Yeah. MR. OSSORIO: I don't know if it was an untruth. I believe that he maybe hasn't read the construction under supervision. A lot of -- a lot of builders sign something that they don't actually read in length, and I think that might be the reason. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, at the same time, if this happens in the future, I'm going to impose on your office to call the rest of the people because I got two more that now I'm questioning if they're valid or not. Tell me about your experience. MS. MIRABAL: Okay. Here are the affidavits that I provided. He's correct, I did not -- I was not employed by Florida Homes of Collier. A lot of the experience that I have had has been personal experience, like he said, owner/builder. I really honestly was not aware that it had to be through a direct employment. I thought it just had to be verified or approved by a contractor. And if -- I'm not sure if you had read my letter. It explained in depth how I reached where I'm at today. But here -- my husband and I have done many investments in Collier County, and yes, one of the things we did was, we did paint our own homes, interior, exterior, depending on the project, so that is what he was verifying here in this -- in this one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I gotcha. MR. JOSLIN: But just for the record then, the other two, or the two that I'm looking at -- Gutierrez, I mean, for Milestone Builders Page 6 June 20, 2007 and -- MS. MIRABAL: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: -- Henry Creasy Construction. MS. MIRABAL: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: They signed also that you performed work and did a great job. MS. MIRABAL: Right. MR. JOSLIN: So how did you do that under-- MS. MIRABAL: No. I have never -- I explained this. I never worked directly for any builder or for any painting contracting company. It was basically all personal experience that I've had. And through our investments we would do the painting work. Also we did work for these contractors personally, you know, in their own homes, excuse me. And I'm not quite sure how I could portray this to you or how -- if you're looking for precise details on which homes or what projects I completed. MR. BLUM: Mr. Ossorio? Michael? MR.OSSORIO: Yes, sir. MR. BLUM: Could you just refresh my memory on exactly what the qualifications for experience are? MR. OSSORIO: Two years, 24 months. I'll read you a -- if you'd indulge me. It says, time in a supervisor or administrative role should be -- also be described but mayor may not be considered sufficient to demonstrate required trade experience. One of the things -- I suppose anyone could -- believe me, you had a board member years ago that said, well, anyone could put paint on the wall. It's not just painting. It's bidding, understanding the process of contracting and the day-to-day operation, and that's what we're looking at. We want to make sure -- not necessarily that he or she is employed by the company, but actually in the business of painting who knows about it, about the bidding process, about estimating. Page 7 June 20, 2007 Those items are very important when you're a painter and you're trying to contact business. MS. KELLER: But she passed her licensing test, so a lot of that MR. OSSORIO: That's one criteria. There's many different criterias of being a contractor. There's three criterias, I believe, is -- one is actually passing the exam; two, which is showing experience; and three, having good credit. So all three work together. Without one, you can't have the other. MS. KELLER: That brings me to my other question in this case is -- I couldn't read the credit read. Mine is really difficult to read. I think it said the score was -- MR. OSSORIO: It's 735. MS. KELLER: -- 735, but-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Nice job. MR. OSSORIO: There's no -- I believe there's no issue on the credit. MS. KELLER: Yeah. But it was really hard for me to read this. MS. MIRABAL: If I might add something. I know -- I mean, it's very difficult for me to prove the experience. It's not something, like I said -- and he had even mentioned to me, Mr. Ossorio, that I should -- it would be better that I worked for two months under a direct supervisor under a painting contractor company. And I honestly would not do that. I would not be able to do that. My husband and I have been involved in many different businesses, and we've conducted some here in Naples. We've never had any issues financially or had anybody ever come back to us with any concerns or complaints. And as to running the business portion of it, I believe I'm very knowledgeable. Like she stated, I did pass the exam. I'm aware of the requirements of the insurances, which we have everything in place. Everything is, you know, on my -- I's are dotted, T's crossed. I made Page 8 June 20, 2007 sure that I had everything in place before I walked into this. Now, I know that he's explaining that we need the 24 months of verified experience, and I do believe that I have it because I've done it for many years, even before these affidavits here are stating, for many years. It hasn't been with a company. It hasn't been in a supervisory role, but I have done it. I know how to do it, I can do it. I'm obviously not going to be the only one working this. I will have employees. I do plan to employ someone to help me supervise who has worked in this kind of role for many years, for six to seven years here in Southwest Florida. So if that can be taken into consideration. MR. JOSLIN: You're going to have employees working for you, then in the packet you've provided with us (sic) an insurance certificate which shows that you don't have any Workmen's Compensation insurance. MS. MIRABAL: I haven't hired anyone yet. I haven't done that, you know. So I didn't think it was smart to start paying for something if I'm not using it yet, so -- MR. LEWIS: Ifit pleases the board. In may direct your attention to our ordinance. It's particularly experience requirements in . 1.8. As a prerequisite to and as a requirement for the issuance of a Collier County/City Certificate of Competency, an applicant shall submit satisfactory evidence of experience in the trade for which he or she desires certification. A, contractor's experience shall be in that particular trade with at least one year of said experience being as a supervisor. We would have to waive that requirement. MR. BARTOE: You would have to do that for 90 percent of the people that apply for a license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The reason we're hesitating, we're trying to find a way. MS. MIRABAL: I understand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: First of all, I'm sorry you're not going Page 9 June 20, 2007 to be a schoolteacher. You taught at Vineyards, right? MS. MIRABAL: Yes, I did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. You're obviously -- and a 735 on a schoolteacher's salary, that's remarkable. MS. MIRABAL: Oh, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've already passed all your tests. I'm just going to go for it. I vote that we approve the experience, grant the license. MR. OSSORIO: The county has no objection. MR. BLUM: What did Mr. Ossorio say? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How about -- I need a second. MS. KELLER: I second. MR. BLUM: It's okay with Michael? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now we can talk. Yeah, county's okay as well. Now, we open for discussion. MR. JOSLIN: How about we put a -- some kind of restriction on it for a six-month period? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't have a problem with that. MR. JOSLIN: See how she does and we're allowing her to run the business with no experience really at all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, she's got experience. She's done -- I've got three contractors here that say that she's done work for them and they complimented her. I know she hasn't been a supervisor. MR. LEWIS: Think about what you just said. You've got three contractors that hired an unlicensed person to come in and paint their homes. MS. KELLER: And it was their homes. MR. LEWIS: Their own personal home? MS. KELLER: It was owner/builder, right? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It was ownerlbuilder. MS. MIRABAL: I wasn't hired. I wasn't paid. What we did is we would receive credit on whatever work we did, but I was not hired. Page 10 June 20, 2007 I was not hired. MR. LEWIS: So all three of these homes that you did for Florida Homes were your homes? MS. MIRABAL: Yes. MR. LEWIS: You bought three homes from him-- MS. MIRABAL: Yes. MR. LEWIS: And then you bought two others from these other contractors? MS. MIRABAL: I did not buy any from Milestone Builders. Actually my husband and Peter Gutierrez, the owner of Milestone Builders, did purchase property together, and we would work -- we would do work. We also did -- my husband, not I, did some tile work that -- you know, things that would allow us to obviously increase profit. And Henry Creasy, no, I never did build any -- or he never built anything for us, but we did personal work for Henry Creasy. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll put -- yeah. MR. LEWIS: I -- just to weigh in. I can't go with that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll put my reputation on it. She's -- I mean, if there's ever a spirit of an entrepreneur, and the qualifications, she's it. So I'll amend my motion to approve it with a six-month probationary period. MR. BLUM: In may. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Will you second that? MS. KELLER: I second that. Make sure you -- if you have an employee, that you get them covered. MS. MIRABAL: Definitely. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MS. KELLER: Because otherwise you'll be back in front of us. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. BLUM: I have to echo Mr. Lewis. This is obviously a very dynamic lady and probably a professional person. Page 11 ^. '_~_b.__~~m'...._.,_u~_,,___-<_ . June 20, 2007 We do have criteria. She obviously doesn't meet it. I think she's circumventing what we're setting out to do, and I do have a problem with it. IfMr. Ossorio had said, okay, called all three of these guys -- I personally know Henry Creasy and I know Gutierrez as well. I know who Mr. Schmaelling is. She hasn't been a supervisor, she hasn't run a job. She hasn't been in charge of any of these big houses that these guys built. I don't think she meets the criteria and I would be opposed to it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh. And understand this, my motion is based on the fact that I disagree, she does meet the criteria for the experience and that's what I'm basing my motion on. MR. LEWIS: How do you figure that? MR. BLUM: How do you figure it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because of the jobs that she's done, and she has supervised. MR. BLUM: We don't know that. MR. LEWIS: Let me read you what a painting contractor is. Painting contractor requires 24 months of experience, a passing grade on a three-hour test and a passing grade on a two-hour business and law test means those who are qualified to use spraying equipment as well as hand tools to finish both exterior and interior work. A painting contractor may do paperhanging, sandblasting, and may clean and paint roofs. That's it. MR. BLUM: She doesn't come close to those criteria. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more discussion? MR. JOSLIN: I think if we -- if we go along with your idea, Mr. Dickson, that we're going to be setting a precedence to any painting contractor in Collier County that wants to come in here without expenence. MR. BLUM: Amen. MR. JOSLIN: I can't vote for it either. Page 12 June 20, 2007 MR. BLUM: I can't do it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Call for the vote. All those in favor? MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. DICKSON: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MR. DICKSON: Okay. By signal. Aye. MS. KELLER: (Raises hand.) MR. BOYD: (Raises hand.) MR. GUITE': (Raises hand.) MR. DICKSON: Four. All those opposed? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MS. MIRABAL: Would it be possible with the probationary period? I mean -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That was included in the motion. MS. MIRABAL: Does that make a difference? I mean, if within six months, like you said, there's anything that would -- MR. BLUM: Not now. MS. MIRABAL: So that we're not capable to do this? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What you've got to do is get some experience. I know you've got a son that needs your attention. MS. MIRABAL: A daughter, a daughter. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: A daughter. You've got to get some experience. Or can -- she can't come in here with -- you can't do that. Or get your -- the person you were going to hire to go take the test. He's got the experience. Page 13 June 20, 2007 MS. MIRABAL: Right, right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you could tutor him. MS. KELLER: And you can work under him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And he could pull-- he could pull the license for the company and you still own the company. MR. LEWIS: Then after 24 months, then you can get your license. MS. MIRABAL: And that's basically the only way? I would have to have -- would that person need to own a portion of the business? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. Well, there's a financial responsibility act. MS. MIRABAL: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He has to have control over jobs. MR. OSSORIO: There's a form you fill out. There's actually a form you fill out, and also, if this person's going to be workers' compo exempt, he would have to have 10 percent ownership of the company, so -- MR. JOSLIN: It would be in your interest to have -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that test is given every month, so you can make it move fast if you can tutor that individual fast enough. MS. MIRABAL: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The board's with you. We haven't had a fight like this in a long time. MS. MIRABAL: Right. I mean, I appreciate your consideration. The tutoring and having someone take an exam, I mean, you can have a lot of knowledge in painting or in business and sometimes not be able to pass a test. I'm just hoping -- I mean, we're putting now all our hope in someone that may not be able to pass a test. I just -- you know, in can plead you to reconsider. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, it's -- that we can't do. It's been -- we tried. It didn't go. It's down. Now you've got to go another Page 14 June 20, 2007 avenue. MS. MIRABAL: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay? I do wish you well. MS. MIRABAL: Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: Do you need a motion to deny this? MR. NEALE: It's already done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't need it, do I? MR. NEALE: You took a vote. No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I tried to approve it and it went down. MR. NEALE: Motion to approve failed, so you don't need a denial. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Wish you well. MR. JOSLIN: Sorry. MR. LEWIS: And good luck, ma'am. MS. MIRABAL: Do I need to stay? MR. JOSLIN: No. You're free to go. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That was a good battle. I enjoy those. We haven't had one of those in a long time, guys. MR. LEWIS: Since the last time I was here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Since the last time. Wallace Booth, are you present? If you could come up to the podium. I need for you to just state your name and have you sworn in, SIr. MR. BOOTH: Name is Wallace Booth. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you've got a credit issue. Tell us about it as we're looking at it. MR. BOOTH: I have an IRS tax lien on my credit, and at the present time, I am in the process of paying them off. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What was the date of that lien? MR. BOOTH: That I am not aware of. I know -- MS. KELLER: It was a year ago. Page 15 June 20, 2007 MR. BOOTH: -- it went up through 2003. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, we can tell you. You don't know when that went on? MR. JOSLIN: December '95, '6, '77 MS. KELLER: '06 is when it was-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: December '06? MS. KELLER: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I haven't found it yet. MS. KELLER: It's June 28, '06 was when he started the payments. MR. GUITE': Three oh four. MS. KELLER: Right here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, it's in that letter, okay. MS. KELLER: The thing that I couldn't understand from this paperwork is, I didn't see any -- any evidence of the payments that have been made during that time. I see a bill that's due for this month, which has penalties and interest on it. And so it was very difficult for me to see from this statement, the documents that you gave me, what had been paid from the date that was in the first letter from the IRS that set out the payment schedule. I didn't see if you had made those payments. MR. BOOTH: Yes. I do make the payments. At the present time I have $115 a week coming out of my paycheck that goes directly to them, and then on the balance, before the 28th of each month, I send in the balance to them. MS. KELLER: Okay. And this penalty and interest, are those-- MR. BOOTH: That-- MS. KELLER: -- for late payments that you've made during that time or -- MR. BOOTH: The penalties and interest is -- they keep adding on to what I owe them, and so it just basically continues. MS. KELLER: But they wouldn't add on to penalties unless you Page 16 June 20, 2007 weren't paying payments on time. MR. BOOTH: The payments are being made on time, and that __ what they're sending is a monthly statement, and I believe it's a breakdown of exactly what it is that is owed and how it gets broken down. MS. KELLER: Okay. Because when you start fresh, there are no penalties on -- MR. BOOTH: Well-- MR. NEALE: Except these kind onRS statements show the penalties that were imposed previously, so that -- what that is is -- MS. KELLER: They include -- they roll that up and -- okay. I wasn't sure if it was -- MR. NEALE: Yeah. The way these statements work -- MS. KELLER: -- starting at the beginning. MR. NEALE: -- because I've seen them before, is that they show exactly what each of those tax periods were. MS. KELLER: Okay. MR. NEALE: So it's just a -- it's a summary of where your pass is, and then it keeps updating as you pay it. MS. KELLER: Okay. But do we have any evidence that the payments are being made in this packet? I couldn't find anything. MR. NEALE: Well-- MR. BOOTH: No. The only thing is, is when I originally turned this in, they said, well, can you send in a previous -- a statement, current statement, which is that one for -- I believe it was last month it was due. MR. GUITE': How much are you paying? How much are you making? MR. BOOTH: $837 is the total per month. MR. BARTOE: My concern, when I reviewed this, ifit was at 837 a month, the page before, if you read number five, will continue to charge penalty and interest until he pays the total amount owd. And Page 17 June 20, 2007 with the amount owed, I can't see how the man will ever get it paid off. MR. GUITE': We'll all be dead and gone before it gets paid. MR. JOSLIN: If I'm reading this correctly, is this $282,000 worth of tax liens? MR. BOOTH: Yes, it is. MR. JOSLIN: At $837 a month? MR. BLUM: There's no way. MR. BOOTH: Yes. What it is is the base -- the payments are reviewed every two years, and it's based on what I'm able to pay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you contacted legal counsel on this issue? MR. BOOTH: As far as legal counsel, I have not. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because, first of all, we're talking $300,000. MR. BOOTH: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: With penalties and interest, you won't live long enough. In fact, you're losing ground every month. You've got to get someone to go in and make a settlement agreement with the IRS and then start paying on a settlement agreement. With what this is, your liability's going up every month, which begs my next question; why would you even consider trying to open a business with this over your head? MR. BOOTH: In order for me to make more money so this way I can work on getting it paid off. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And why would you expect Collier County to grant you a license when you have a $300,000 tax lien on you? MR. BOOTH: I am in the process of working on paying it off. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You do see my dilemma? MR. BOOTH: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, we turn you loose on the Page 18 June 20, 2007 public when that happens, and I don't see that you can run your business with that kind of liability on top of you. That's why you've got to sit down with a good tax attorney and -- because the route you're on is absolutely fruitless. MR. JOSLIN: Maybe I missed something here, but what created this tax problem? MR. BOOTH: I was -- I was working as a salesman and I was getting paid with the -- paid directly and getting a 1099, and I just didn't have the money to payoff the taxes in that year, and it just progressively snowballed. MR. BLUM: How long ago was that? MR. BOOTH: '95. MR. GUITE': And you missed the bankruptcy law. MR. BLUM: You're a prime candidate for Chapter something. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wait. I've got two talking. MR. GUITE': That's not going to help him any. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but you can't -- I don't think you can bankrupt these tax liabilities out, can you? MR. GUITE': Not anymore, not since 2000. MR. BLUM: Did anybody make a motion? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm waiting. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion to deny the packet. MR. GUITE': Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got a motion -- MR. GUITE': Oops, sorry. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- by Mr. Guite' to deny. Do I have a second? MR. BLUM: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? MR. LEWIS: Discussion, yeah. Just, if -- would the board consider in this application if they reapplied with a financially responsible officer? Because if you look at the setup of the Page 19 June 20, 2007 corporation, you know, it's CP Electric, Incorporated, and Wallace Booth is only, I believe, a 49 percent owner of that. MR. BOOTH: I believe it's half. MR. NEALE: The only problem is, in Collier County, we do not have financially responsible officers. That's a -- it's a state -- that's not in our ordinance. MR. LEWIS: I thought we accepted state's 489? MR. NEALE: No. We do except for the fact that this board had reviewed whether to have financially responsible officers in the past, and a decision was made not to recommend that to the county commISSIOn. MR. LEWIS: Sorry, tried. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What happened to our financial responsibility part that used to be in the packets? MR. NEALE: Well, it's -- it still has to be the contractor. We don't have a separate officer that can be financially responsible. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Gotcha. Any more discussion? MS. KELLER: I think it's very admirable that you are paying off your debt, so I commend you for that but -- not taking the easy way out, but it is -- it is difficult to approve for someone in your situation to start a business. And I'm a consumer, so I'm always looking out for the consumer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All of us up here have been in business. I will tell -- I'll guarantee you, a good -- one hour with a good tax attorney will make your life so much more enjoyable. Go do it. MR. BOOTH: All right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can't say any more than that. Just go do it. Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. Page 20 June 20, 2007 MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We can't let it go right now. MR. BOOTH: All right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BOOTH: Okay. Now, once I get the IRS tax lien taken care of, resubmit then? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You go meet with a good tax attorney and get on a different program and your life will turn around. MR. BOOTH: All right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BOOTH: All right, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. I'm up here advertising for the suits. MR. NEALE: And we thank you for it. MR. LEWIS: Are we all receiving a cut of that or what? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. And you guys know exactly what I was telling that man. MR. JOSLIN: I saw several attorneys in here pull out their pens, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: See, that's why we call them suits. There's only -- there's four suits in here. Whoops, there's a fifth one. Yeah. Let's keep going. We've only been going 30 minutes. Salvatore Munizzi. Did you come in? Page 21 June 20, 2007 (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He's off. Keep that packet for next month though. With that, we're going to go into public hearings. Let me explain public hearings while I've got everyone here. Weare quasijudicial. The county is the one who is putting on the case, and we will open it up with, the county will make opening remarks, not to get into details of the case, and then the respondent or their representative can make opening remarks, not to get into the case. Then the county will present their case. You'll be allowed to ask their witnesses questions and vice versa, with closing remarks at the end, and then we will close what we call the public hearing, which is basically, there's an imaginary screen up here, the case is over with, but you hear us deliberate. I do say it's quasijudicial because we do allow hearsay. A lot different than what you're used to in a courtroom, but hopefully you find it a little bit easier to get along and go from there. So with that, case number 2007-07, Collier County versus John L. Allison, Sr., d/b/a Allison Roofing Systems, Incorporated. Mr. Allison's representative is here. And you're going to put on the case for the county. I don't need to have -- if you would, just state your name for me, SIr. MR. SPARKMAN: My name is Richard Sparkman. I'm a member of the bar, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And you're representing Mr. Allison? MR. SPARKMAN: I represent Allison Roofing, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are a member of the Florida Bar? MR. SPARKMAN: That is correct, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If -- since he's a friend of the court, I do not have to have him sworn in; is that correct, Mr. Neale? Page 22 June 20, 2007 MR. NEALE: Unless he's offering testimony. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Very well. If the county would open with their remarks. MR. WUHRER: Yes, good morning, Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen of the board. For the record, my name is Andy Wuhrer, contractor licensing investigator. The case that the county is going to bring forth this morning is that we will show that the contract was supplied by Allison Roofing to the Haines. It was reviewed and accepted by the Haines as well. And according to the contract, the down payment was made upon the acceptance. And subsequent to that, a second check was also issued in excess of the allowed contract amount and written to John Schneider, who was an employee of Allison Roofing and who had been given power of attorney to conduct business for Allison Roofing, and subsequent to that, did not return to perform for the contract. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Opening remarks, sir? MR. SPARKMAN: The response I have, sir, is that Allison Roofing worked for 17 years, been a licensed roofing contractor. About five years, I think, in Collier. Mr. Schneider, who worked for Allison Roofing for about a year, pulled permits and did work. And at some point, about a year into work for Allison Roofing, went to the Haineses -- and actually I think there are some more of these out here -- and he exceeded his authority and began to commit crimes. Mr. John Schneider had Mrs. Haines write the check directly to him rather than Allison Roofing. He went and cashed it and put the money in his pocket. Mrs. Haines then wrote a check to Allison Roofing for 10,000, and I have exhibits which I'll show at the appropriate time. Apparently, Mr. Schneider put in the word Sunniland and then paid for materials through Sunniland, and I have in my exhibits where he paid for other people's materials and then some materials for the Haineses, and he misappropriated that money, he altered a check, Page 23 June 20, 2007 misappropriated that money, and he took off, and he went to Michigan and wrote checks on Allison Roofing accounts that he didn't have the authority to write, even after his authority was pulled by Allison Roofing. Did not put money in Allison Roofing accounts, and wrote checks, for instance, for EI -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me interrupt. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, guide me here. First of all, this is all well and good, but I really don't care, because he was an employee of Allison Roofing, who is the license holder. License holder is responsible for all actions of their employees. Can you guide me Mr. Neale; am Ion the right track here? MR. NEALE: It would appear so, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Huh? MR. NEALE: Yes, you are. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So this is not a defense. If that's the case, then he's got criminal charges against an employee but he makes the homeowner whole again. You're going down the wrong track. MR. SPARKMAN: Well, we understand that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So why are you-- MR. SPARKMAN: We haven't gotten there yet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, let's keep it to opening remarks. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. What else do you have to say on opening remarks? MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. We understand the responsibility, and we have made an offer to Mrs. Haines. I personally made it to her -- I made it through counsel, but apparently her counsel didn't respond to me -- that we would pay $500 a month until all of this was paid. Page 24 June 20, 2007 She wants more than that. We can't do that. I'm not going to make an offer we can't make, but that's what we've got. We offered to make her whole, but it will take time. And if we -- Allison Roofing comes up with more money, Allison Roofing will pay more money. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BLUM: The amount that you're looking on paying at 500 a month is 31,666, or is that -- MR. SPARKMAN: I'm sorry. I didn't catch all of that, yes, 500 a month. MR. BLUM: No. What's the total amount that Allison agrees he needs to pay back to Mrs. Haines? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can we wait and get into that once we get into the case, please? MR. BLUM: Okay, sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: County, present your case. MR. WUHRER: Thank you, Mr. chairman. You need to swear memo CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. If you're going to offer testimony, yeah. MR. BARTOE: Staff would like to introduce case number 2007 -07 into evidence. MR. JOSLIN: Make a motion that we approve case number 2007-07. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second. I'll second. All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. Page 25 June 20, 2007 MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And if you'll swear in, Terri, Mr. Wuhrer. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Fire away. MR. WUHRER: Mr. Chairman, board members, I received the complaint from the Haineses regarding this roof not being rebuilt or re-put together subsequent to the hurricane. As per the contract that was supplied by Allison Roofing, the -- they made compliance to the contract by paying the down payment that was required, and that check was -- if you look on Exhibit E9, you'll see that that check was made out to Allison Roofing. Subsequent to that check having been written, they were revisited by Mr. Schneider, again, who had power of attorney to conduct business for Allison Roofing. And Mr. Allison (sic) requested a check, which we will discuss, with the Haineses, for an additional $21,089, the pretext being that there was additional materials that had to be purchased for the job. This $21,000 check was in excess of the additional third that would have been required by contract, and the check was written and supplied. Subsequent to that, no materials materialized to do the roof. The roof had some work done to it. The old shingles were removed. Some underlayment was put down, the peel and stick variety, and that's where the job terminated. So prior to that $21,000 check, the roof had been removed, the stickum had been put down, the additional check was given. I guess it must have been started just a tad early. And then that was the end of that job. It never proceeded further. So what I would like to do to explain the story in greater detail would be to call Mrs. Haines to the stand so that she could tell the Page 26 June 20, 2007 county exactly what transpired. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, please. And if you would, I'll ask you to sit down and Mrs. Haines come over here, and then you can cross from the other side. MS. HAINES: My name is Elizabeth Haines. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have her sworn in. (The speaker was duly sworn.) MR. WUHRER: Mrs. Haines, I'm just going to ask you a few questions, and feel free to elaborate to some degree on that, if you will, and I'll interrupt you when necessary just to show documentation. How did you come about hiring the Allison Roofing? MS. HAINES: Well, we needed a new roof, it was leaking and had storm damage, and I interviewed several roofing companies. Allison Roofing was recommended to me through a realtor, which was one of the reasons that I ended up going with them. MR. WUHRER: Okay. And when you called to have that interview with Allison Roofing, who came to your residence? MS. HAINES: John Schneider. MR. WUHRER: John Schneider. Did he run over the details of what was necessary and offer you a contract? MS. HAINES: Yes, he did. MR. WUHRER: Did -- after that contract was signed and the check was given to Mr. Schneider, did you see him again the following day? MS. HAINES: Well, he came back for the second check. MR. WUHRER: Yes. And that check, again, you made out to? MS. HAINES: The second one was made out to John Schneider. MR. WUHRER: Made out to John Schneider. So there were two checks. And that second check that you did give to Mr. Schneider was in excess, am I not correct -- MS. HAINES: Correct. MR. WUHRER: -- of the second one-third requirement. And Page 27 June 20, 2007 then, of course, some work was started. MS. HAINES: Yes. MR. WUHRER: And that check, Mr. Schneider stated, he needed for? MS. HAINES: Materials and for his crew, to pay the crew. MR. WUHRER: Okay. Did materials show up on the job? MS. HAINES: No. There were never any materials delivered. MR. WUHRER: Were you curious after no materials came? MS. HAINES: Yes. MR. WUHRER: And what did you do about that? MS. HAINES: Well, what happened was, the -- they took the roof off, and the people that took the roof off came back to me with a letter from their attorney stating that they had not been paid by Allison Roofing and that they were going to put a lien on my house. So, of course, I got nervous when that happened and I called up John Schneider and I said, when are you going to put the roofing tiles up, and he said, well, I've order them through Sunniland Tile, so, you know, we should have it done by Thanksgiving. So I called Sunniland Tile, and they told me that John Schneider had never ordered any materials for my house. So then I called John Schneider back again, and by this time, I'm really nervous and I said to John Schneider, I said, Sunniland said that you didn't order the tile through them. And he said, no, I changed my mind at the last minute. He said, I ordered the tile through Dr. Good Roof. So I called up Dr. Good Roof, and I said, when is my tile going to be ready? And Dr. Good Roof said that no tile had been ordered for my job. MR. WUHRER: I see. And of course, you never were able to recontact Mr. Schneider? MS. HAINES: Oh, I called -- I've talked to Mr. Schneider after that, but he said he had no money. He spent the money. MR. WUHRER: I see. And did he tell you what he spent it on? Page 28 June 20, 2007 MS. HAINES: No. MR. WUHRER: Because obviously it was not materials to do your roof? MS. HAINES: Right. MR. WUHRER: Okay. Okay. I think that's sufficient. Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So no -- don't leave. Let's cross while she's up here. And then we have questions on the board for her, too. MR. SPARKMAN: Good morning, Mrs. Haines. MS. HAINES: Good morning. MR. SPARKMAN: I have -- the only questions I have, the first check you wrote, you did write to Allison Roofing; is that correct? MS. HAINES: Correct. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. Did you write Sunniland in there? MS. HAINES: No. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. I have a copy of that check, in may show it to her. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I need to have that introduced, Pat? MR. NEALE: I think it's part of the packet. MS. HAINES: I have it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got it. MR. WUHRER: Page 15. MR. SPARKMAN: Do you see after Allison Roofing -- do you see after Allison Roofing where Sunniland was written in on your check? MS. HAINES: Yes. MR. SPARKMAN: Did you do that? MS. HAINES: No. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. The money actually went to Sunniland. They endorsed the check. You noticed that? MS. HAINES: Yes. I found that out later. Page 29 June 20, 2007 MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. Well, according to Sunniland, the documents I have from Sunniland, they did deliver certain materials to your house; is that correct? MS. HAINES: No, that's not correct. I never received anything from Sunniland. MR. SPARKMAN: I'm sorry? MS. HAINES: I never received any tile from Sunniland. MR. SPARKMAN: No, I didn't say tile. According to Sunniland, they delivered $4,551.80 worth of materials, poly bond, poly stuck, eaves drip, so there was some work done; is that correct? MS. HAINES: Yeah, there was work done. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. And materials used from Sunniland? MS. HAINES: Oh, I didn't know it was from Sunniland, no. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. But there were -- some materials were put on the roof; is that correct? MS. HAINES: Yes. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. The second check you wrote to Mr. Schneider directly. MS. HAINES: Right. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. Did you question Mr. Schneider as to why you were writing that check to Mr. Schneider rather than to Sunniland? MS. HAINES: I did. MR. SPARKMAN: I mean to Allison Roofing. MS. HAINES: Yes, yes. MR. SPARKMAN: What did he say? MS. HAINES: Well, he said he needed to go do it right away and he had to go get the material. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. MS. HAINES: And I trusted him at the time. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. And did you call Mr. Allison and talk to him about it? Page 30 June 20, 2007 MS. HAINES: I didn't know there was a Mr. Allison. MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. Thank you. I have no further questions. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Sparkman, if I could just interrupt for one second. In the packet I don't have -- unless I'm missing something here -- I don't have a copy of the check that you're talking about. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's right here. Sunniland and deposited by Sunniland. See it wrote in there? How much -- let me go back to this crew that says they weren't paid. Who are you talking about? MS. HAINES: These were the men that took off the tile. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How many? MS. HAINES: There were five men and there was a woman that spoke English. The other four men did not speak English. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you get the impression they worked hourly or salary with Allison Roofing? MS. HAINES: I didn't get any impression at the time when they were doing the work. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But there were five people? MS. HAINES: There were five people. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you ever get insurance certificates from Allison Roofing? MS. HAINES: I don't think so. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you-- MS. HAINES: He -- the permit was gotten. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Just for the board's benefit, he's got workers' compo exempt. MR. JOSLIN: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So basically those people were not insured unless they were insured by someone else. So there were five people, and they had not been paid. And then while I have you up here; I've read your file. You said Dr. Good Roof Page 31 June 20, 2007 went ahead and finished the roof? MS. HAINES: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How much did you pay them to finish? MS. HAINES: I paid them about 35,000. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thirty-five, okay. That's all I had. Anybody else? MS. KELLER: Do we have a copy of the lien? Because that would give us an idea -- MS. HAINES: I don't have that. MR. BLUM: Did you get liened? MS. HAINES: I didn't get liened from them. I got liened from the dumpster people, World Management, that -- and John Schneider didn't pay them in full for the dumpsters, so there was a 400 and, I think, 34 dollar lien that was placed on my house by the dumpster people, which is presently my house. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I just got to ask you -- MS. HAINES: I know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you remember -- MS. HAINES: I know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How's your husband's back? MS. HAINES: He's getting a little bit better. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He was in a lot of pain when I was at your house. MS. HAINES: A lot of pain, that's right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you remember my proposal. MS. HAINES: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And it said no deposits. MS. HAINES: I know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you remember why I told you, don't make deposits. MS. HAINES: I know. Don't trust people. Page 32 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What did you -- what were you thinking of? MS. HAINES: I don't know. I trusted him. You know, I think it was because he was referred through a realtor. I've been a realtor for 30 years. And you know, when they refer people, they usually have a lot of credibility. And the guy was a con guy, you know. He was really nice. You were nice too, but -- MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I do have one question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. OSSORIO: Mrs. Haines, do you know what a notice of owner is? MS. HAINES: Notice of owner? MR. OSSORIO: Yes. MS. HAINES: No, I don't. MR. OSSORIO: Notice of owner is a document that is supplied by a supplier or a subcontractor to the owner letting them know that I have dropped off materials or labor. Did you ever get one of those from Sunniland? MS. HAINES: No, no. MR. OSSORIO: Okay. No more questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There would be no lien rights. MS. HAINES: Pardon? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There's no lien rights unless they serve one of those on you within 45 days of delivering material. MS. HAINES: Oh. Well, the lien isn't from Sunniland though. The lien is from waste -- the World Waste Products. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you receive a notice to owner from the waste management people? MS. HAINES: I think we did. You mean, that they were going to put a lien on it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, a notice to owner that would have come by certified mail that they're doing work on your property. You Page 33 June 20, 2007 may want an attorney to look at it. MS. HAINES: I'm not sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If they didn't serve one, the lien is totally invalid. MS. HAINES: Okay. I'm not sure. MS. KELLER: An attorney will cost more than the lien. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now there I go sending people to attorneys again. MS. KELLER: Les, the attorney will cost more than the lien. MR. BLUM: It's got to be filed. Just check to see if the notice was filed. It's public records. See if it's filed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If it's not filed, the lien may be no good. Anybody else have any other questions? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have a redirect? MR. WUHRER: No, I'm fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead and have a seat. MS. HAINES: Okay, thank you. MR. WUHRER: Mr. Chairman, we have no more questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell me your name again. MR. SPARKMAN: Sparkman. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sparkman. MR. SPARKMAN: S-P-A-R-K-M-A-N. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I apologize for -- MR. SPARKMAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- doing that, but I didn't write it down the first time. Mr. Sparkman, the floor is yours, sir. MR. SPARKMAN: Well, Mr. Chairman, we don't have any testimony. I think that the -- you know, the -- I have the documents I would like to submit, which I have offered before, if I may do it, and Page 34 June 20, 2007 you may have most of them. These are the checks. These are -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The check we have. MR. SPARKMAN: -- where the money went. And again, I think that it's clear from Mrs. Haines's testimony, the county presentation, that we have an intervening criminal act by a Mr. John Schneider, who exceeded his authority, and, you know, took this lady's money. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Does Mr. Allison want to say anything? MR. SPARKMAN: Well, Mr. Allison-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I sure would like to talk to him. MR. SPARKMAN: Well, let Mr. Allison talk. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. If you would, Mr. Allison, state your name, and I'll have you sworn. MR. ALLISON: John Allison. (The speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What happened? Besides you got cheated, but -- MR. ALLISON: A nightmare in the middle of the day. John had worked for me and everything, you know, was good. No problems at all. And, I mean, all of a sudden, Mrs. Haines called me -- and I've never met her. And I want to first off, right off the bat, I am -- words can't explain. I'm sorry. I never had a clue that this was gomg on. And so I immediately got ahold of John Schneider, and he said it's being taken care of, and I called Mrs. Haines back. And we had conversed several times, and we got to know John Schneider, unfortunately, in the realty, about the same time, because what he was telling me, he was telling her, and none of it came to fruition. And-- MR. BLUM: How long had he worked for you? MR. ALLISON: About a year before I -- it had been over a year, but I shut him off about -- after we started talking, you know, and I Page 35 June 20, 2007 seen that it wasn't going anywhere, about three or four or five month ago, I guess I took him off of everything. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you give him authority to sign for permits? MR. ALLISON: Yes, I did, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. ALLISON: Yes, I did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second mistake. MR. ALLISON: Oh, yes. Well, like I said, you know, she trusted him, I trusted him, and you know, the work he did was good. But anyways, make a long story short, in had the money, I'd pay it. There's not a question in my -- my first intent is not to save my license. The first intent is to take care of the people that he messed up. And I can't apologize for that enough. If I had any clue that anybody would be misdone like that, I'd have never done it. MR. BLUM: Is Mrs. Haines the only one to your knowledge? MR. ALLISON: He's made -- there was -- I'm not sure, four or five, but he's made advancements to them to try to take care of it, and we've got it agreed to, I think, so -- but I haven't talked with them. MR. JOSLIN: Has there been any conversation with Mr. Schneider since this happened? MR. ALLISON: Oh, yeah. Last -- the last day of -- when we was supposed to be here a month ago, he called and he talked to Mrs. Haines and, you know, same thing, you know, I'll get something Monday just to try to postpone this thing that was going on Wednesday. Mrs. Haines wasn't here, so it was put off till this month. And since that period of time, you know, I talked to him three or four times. And I call him every day. I -- legally he should be put in jail, but I'm trying to be a mediator here, try to get him to take care of what he's done wrong. Ifhe's in jail, he can't do that and everything lies on me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, that was my next question, have Page 36 June 20, 2007 you filed criminal charges? MR. ALLISON: Right now I haven't, but I'm --like I said, and the reason for that is, is I'm trying to give him every bit of opportunity that I can, because any money that he was able to pay back, I wouldn't have to pay back. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because both you and the homeowner have -- I mean, where is the white collar crime people? I mean this guy should be in jail. MR. ALLISON: Well, I agree. MS. KELLER: And the courts are going to be more likely to get money than we are. MR. ALLISON: Yeah, I -- well, I told -- yeah. I called the Collier County Police Department and have been talking with this Detective Bascotto (phonetic) for -- since I talked to Mrs. Haines, and he has -- had contact with John. I gave him the numbers, and so he's been trying to get him to commit, too. And so I have been involved with trying to deal with it that way. My concern was is how we can do it and hold him accountable, and I -- to make him feel the pressure to take care of this thing that he did. Being in jail, I mean, he's going to pay that way, but he's not going to pay, you know. And I don't say that in the wrong way. I mean, it's not right. MR. JOSLIN: In the evidence from the packet here it says that Mr. Schneider left town, or after he recovered this money from these people, that he left town. Is he back in town now? MR. ALLISON: No. MR. JOSLIN: No, he's still in another state? MR. ALLISON: I've got his address. MR. JOSLIN: So he's not local here? MR. ALLISON: No, he was here at the time. You know, when he worked for me he had been here, but he -- MR. JOSLIN: Right. But you're saying you've talked to him Page 37 June 20, 2007 since in the past weeks, months? MR. ALLISON: I've -- oh, yeah. I've talked to him three times, the Wednesday a month ago, and then twice after that. And I told him, I said, John, this is the scenario that's going on. You're supposed to have money coming in and you're telling Mrs. Haines and me that you've got money coming in. And I said, don't tell me you got anything coming in unless you got it in your hand. I said, you're counting your eggs before they hatch. And I said, and you've done that five or six times, and it's nothing but a lie. I said, your intent might be good, but it's not doing anything. I said, you got promises coming to you. You're making promises and promises that -- and it's -- MS. KELLER: Mike, are there other complaints against Allison Roofing? MR. OSSORIO: Not that I know of. There might be a preliminary complaint, question, homeowners might call, but nothing in writing, no. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm -- and, of course, that's my trade is roofing, and I apologize if this offends you, but this is the first time in my 25 years in the area that you and I have crossed paths, so apparently you don't come down to Collier County very often, or I've never seen you on any jobs in Collier County. So you hold a Collier County license and a Lee County? MR. ALLISON: Well, it's Florida state license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you're state certified, okay. But you normally don't work in this area, do you? MR. ALLISON: Well, I do jobs in Country Creek and -- you know, I'm not doing anything right now. Done three jobs this whole year. Just unbelievable, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, you would have lost money on this job anyway. It was not priced correctly to start with. But any other questions? Page 38 June 20, 2007 MR. JOSLIN: Also in the conversation, Mr. Dickson brought up the fact that there were -- at the time that this job started for Allison Roofing, there was five men working on the roof? MR. ALLISON: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: Could that have been without insurance? MR. ALLISON: No. Everything that he done was through a leasing company. MR. JOSLIN: Do you know the name of the leasing company. MR. ALLISON: Staff Leasing. No, I'm sorry. All Approach. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Staff Leasing went bankrupt. MR. ALLISON: It wasn't Staff. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. All Approach Staff. I'm sure it's All Approach. There's a difference between Staff Leasing and All Approach Staff. MR. JOSLIN: Staff Leasing's out of business though. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that's not what your Certificate of Insurance says though. MR. ALLISON: What -- which one is that, sir? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Didn't I see one in here, guys? MR. ALLISON: There should be one in there, ifthere's -- MR. LEWIS: Staff Leasing would be for your workers' compo That won't show up here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wouldn't they pick up the liability also? MR. LEWIS: No. MR. JOSLIN: Not necessarily. MR. ALLISON: The liability you have to have to have the certificate. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. OSSORIO: That's at E5, Certificate of Detail, and it just shows you that John Allison has registered his license with our office, and we require them to show liability insurance or show a workers' Page 39 June 20, 2007 compo exemption or a workers' compo policy, either/or. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go to E12, Certificate of Exemption, Allison Roofing, for workers' compensation. MR. JOSLIN: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come on. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, but if you go down on E5, in the last section, it says, workers' compensation insurance, and it says, WC exempt, yes. That's our policy. It's either/or. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And here I'm looking at the state form, state letter here, dated -- 11/19/05, was the effective date. If you were -- if you were not workers' compo exempt and you were under some leasing program, there's a document in your file that directly disagrees with that and negates that. MR. LEWIS: Not necessarily. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. Why? MR. LEWIS: Because he, as the owner of the company, he can exempt himself. That's all he has to show to register his license with the county or the state. MR. JOSLIN: The leasing company would provide the workmen's compo certificate. MR. LEWIS: Right. And that's a certificate that would be sent out individually to the individuals as requested by the contractor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's something I'm not aware of. MR. LEWIS: We could probably get some clarification because I believe Mr. Herriman can weigh in on that. MR. WUHRER: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, I also had an experience just a couple days ago regarding workmen's comp out of Fort Myers area, Bonita area, and I was told by that company that they have never sent copies to the county unless it was requested by the contractor. I thought that was kind of strange. And they not going to do that anymore. May have been a similar circumstance, that's all I'm saymg. Page 40 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Well, I'm glad that the state is getting rid of exempt contractors. It's been a long time coming. Any other questions? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, Mr. Allison. Do have you anything more? MR. SPARKMAN: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Mr. Sparkman. Mr. Wuhrer, if you would, closing remarks, please. MR. WUHRER: Yes, sir. I think it's been -- it's been shown that the case that's been stated by the county is, in fact, fairly clear. It's unfortunate for Mr. Allison that he had a gentleman like this working for him, but the acts were committed nonetheless, and he's going to have to live with the consequences, I'm afraid. So my understanding is that Mr. Schneider is in Michigan, although he has the address; he could probably give you a better understanding, so it's going to be something that somebody else would have to take care of. So I think that's all I really have to say. MR. JOSLIN: In your opinion, what -- you looked at the job actually, looked at the roof? MR. WUHRER: No, I did not. MR. JOSLIN: You did not. MR. WUHRER: The roof was CO'ed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Sparkman, closing remarks? MR. SPARKMAN: Yes, sir. Again, I think we all understand what took place here. Here's a man who has worked as a competent roofer for 17 years with a state license, has never had a complaint or violation. He had a man work with him that he trusted, and the man committed some crimes. We are going to follow up on that. The only thing that Mr. Allison can do is try to make Mrs. Haines whole. What we have said to Mrs. Haines from the inception is, if -- Page 41 June 20, 2007 we'd pay you if we could, but we are not going to make an offer we can't -- we can't maintain. And at this juncture, this is this man's -- small roofers, generally he and, I believe, his son, can pay 500 a month at this point, and ifhe comes up with more money, he could pay that. Our recommendation is the board place Mr. Allison or Allison Roofing on probation, require him to make payments, and if he doesn't, then suspend his license. If you put him out of business then, of course, he doesn't have the money or the capability to make any restitution whatsoever at all and it doesn't do anything for the board, it doesn't do anything for Collier County, and it doesn't do anything for Mrs. Haines. It's not a question of a man who doesn't know how to roof, doesn't -- it's not a question of a man who did bad roofs. It's not a question that this man did anything wrong other than trust someone, and that man began to commit crimes and steal money from customers. We've all seen it and some of us have been there. So I request that the board consider a probation and some form of reimbursement option. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to close the public hearing. MR. BAR TOE: I have a question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BLUM: I have a question, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BARTOE: Have we established a figure as to how much-- MR. BLUM: That's where I was going. MR. BARTOE: -- the Haines are out-- MR. BLUM: Yeah. MR. BARTOE: -- monetarily? MR. BLUM: Yeah, a certain amount of work has already been done. Page 42 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Whoa, stop. State certified license. Only thing we can do is take away permit-pulling privileges in Collier County, correct, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Well, I was just reviewing that. What the board can do is -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I get a motion to close the public hearing while he's looking that up? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. LEWIS: Second, Lewis. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MR. NEALE: There's two choices the board has basically. They deny the issuance of Collier County or city building permits or require the issuance with certain -- with specific conditions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But we don't have restitution and all of that available to us? MR. NEALE: It could be argued that the -- one of the conditions could be restitution. I think that's an argument that could be made. There is one issue, since the board has closed the public hearing, that I would like to request a brief recess so I can do a little research, is that the charge is fraud that's being made, and what I'd like to do is pull the elements and definition of fraud out to brief the board on that. So if I could have a moment to pull those elements and have them here. June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well-- and while we're on this -- and we can do the break -- we have never -- we've only dealt with two state licenses in here that Mr. Ossorio has brought to us, and that's all we had the right to do was permit-pulling privileges in Collier County and refer it on to the state for their action. MR. NEALE: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the fraud issue is 489.126, isn't it? MR. LEWIS: Seven. MR. NEALE: It's a specific charge in the Collier County ordinance. That's one of the -- and it comes from 489, but it's one of the specific ways in which the county charge -- one of the specific things the county can charge a state contractor with. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let's take a quick -- Mike? MR. OSSORIO: I just wanted to clarify one thing. The county's not looking for -- to do any kind of mediation. That's going to be on the state level. What we're looking for is a -- this company, this qualifier, mismanaged his employee, and his company committed fraud. With that, we would recommend that you pull his building permit privileges in Collier County and send it up to Tallahassee to the state licensing board, let them deal with it on the state level, not the local level. So I just don't want to hash out how much money and mediation. That's not our -- that's not our term, that's not our battle to fight. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. Okay. Take a quick 10-minute, 8-minute -- well, be back here at 10:20; 10:20, and you know I'm prompt. (A brief recess was had.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I'd like to call back to order the meeting of Collier County Contractor Licensing Board. Mr. Neale, the stage is yours. Page 44 June 20, 2007 MR. NEALE: All right. I just wanted to get the elements of fraud so that the board can consider them properly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can you pull your mike a little bit -- MR. NEALE: Sure can. And the citation I'll be using is out of Black's Law Dictionary, and particular from the Citizens Standard Life Insurance Company versus Gilley case. And the elements or the cause of action for fraud include a false representation of a present or past fact made by the defendant, action or reliance upon such misrepresentation by the plaintiff, in this case the homeowner, and damage resulting to the plaintiff from such misrepresentation, so those are the elements that have to be found to -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say those again. MR. NEALE: That there has to be a false representation or misrepresentation by, in this case, the respondent, action reliance by -- thereupon by the homeowner in this case, and damage resulting to the homeowner from that misrepresentation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. You want to give us directions before we -- MR. NEALE: Yes, sir, I will. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- go further. Public hearing is closed. MR. NEALE: The board in its deliberations on this case shall ascertain that fundamental fairness and due process were afforded to the respondent; however, pursuant to the Collier County ordinance, section 22-205G5, the formal rules of evidence as set out in Florida Statutes shall not apply. The board, in its deliberations, shall consider solely the evidence presented at this hearing and it shall exclude from its deliberation irrelevant, immaterial, and cumulative testimony. It shall emit and consider all other evidence of a type commonly relied upon by a reasonably prudent person of the conduct of their affairs. This is whether or not the evidence so admitted would be admissible in a court oflaw or equity. Page 45 June 20, 2007 As noted by the board previously, hearsay may be used to explain or supplement any other evidence, but by itself it is not sufficient to support a finding in this or any other case before this board unless it would be admissible over objection in the civil court. The standard established for sanctions such as those available in a case such as this is a preponderance of the evidence, the same standard as a normal civil case. The standard and evidence are to be weighed solely as to the charges set out in the complaint as ordinance 90-105, section 4.2.4 of the Collier County code of evidence, and that is -- Collier County code of ordinances, which is fraud. In order to support a finding that the respondent is in violation of the ordinance, the board must find facts that showed the violations were actually committed by the respondent. The facts must also show to a clear and convincing standard, the legal conclusion that the respondent was in violation of the relevant sections. I'd just like to, you know, I've already reviewed but I'd like to review the elements of fraud, which are the false representation of a fact made by the respondent and an action reliance by the victim and damage resulting from that misrepresentation. This charge is the only one the board may decide upon, as it is the only one to which the respondent has had the opportunity to prepare a defense. And the damages, if found, must be directly related to this charge, may not be from any unrelated matter. The decision made by this board shall be stated orally at this hearing and is effective upon being read by the board. The respondent, if found in violation, has certain appeal rights to this board, the courts and the state construction industry licensing board as set out in the ordinance and the Florida Statutes and the rules. If the board is unable to issue a decision immediately following the hearing because of questions of law or other matters of such a nature that a decision may not be made at this hearing, the board may Page 46 June 20, 2007 withhold its decision until a subsequent meeting. The board shall base -- both based upon the evidence presented on all areas, if it finds the respondent in violation, adopt the administrative complaint. The board shall also make findings of facts and conclusions of law in support of the charges set out in the administrative complaint. And the board may deliberate on the charges. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Board members, right off the bat, let's look at 4.2.4, fraud. Do we keep it or do we throw it out? MR. BLUM: Keep it. MR. JOSLIN: Keep as it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Only thing I'm questioning is the license holder did not commit the fraud. MR. JOSLIN: License holder is responsible. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He might be responsible, but he didn't actually do it and the way I'm understanding what Mr. Neale is reading, that charge is invalid. Am I off base? License holder didn't do it. MR. LEWIS: I don't think so because he authorized the person that was working for him, which is evident by the evidence presented by the county packet, page E7. If you refer to E7, it's definitely Allison Roofing Systems, Inc., state license contractor number, which is his license number. You know also, just FYI, it shows a Marco Island address and fax number and phone number. I don't have -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That was Schneider. MR. LEWIS: Yeah. I have no idea whether the -- he was licensed to do business in Collier County or not as far as occupational license, but that's not what we're here for. So my opinion is that as the license holder, he represented himself by hiring that employee and therefore is responsible for the fraud as presented. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But his authorization did not authorize Page 47 June 20, 2007 him to commit felonies. MS. KELLER: But usually when we talk about being a license, people are, you know, told when they get -- when they get their license that they are financially responsible and they have to oversee every project. And it's clear to me that even ifhe did have a license in Collier County, he was not taking the fiduciary responsibility he had to monitor the projects here, so that's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't -- yeah. Mr. Neale, legalese? MR. NEALE: Well, the fact that he was operating under the supervision of the respondent could allow the board to find that he committed the fraud while acting on behalf of the respondent's company. And since the respondent is responsible for the actions at his company, under the -- under the ordinance 489, you know, the board could find that he has committed -- that the company has committed fraud under the supervision of Mr. Allison. MR. JOSLIN: That's pretty poorly dictated, because we have a contract signed by Schneider and we also have a power of attorney that he received from Allison Roofing that allowed it to be -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have never, ever -- MR. BLUM: Very clear. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- argued that fraud was not committed, people, but we're talking to the license holder. That's the only person that this -- fraud is all over the place, okay? No question about it. But we're dealing with the license holder. So you all want to keep it in, we keep it in. MR. BLUM: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I just don't want to get it kicked back, and I think it will get kicked back. MR. BLUM: No way. MR. JOSLIN: Can't see how. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. His conduct is -- really I just need one charge to work on. So both charges, 4.2, misconduct of state Page 48 June 20, 2007 certified contractors and 4.2.4, fraud, do I hear any discussion or motions? MR. BLUM: I'll make the motion that we find for the plaintiff, that misconduct and fraud have been committed by or in the name of Allison Roofing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: License holder. MR. BLUM: License holder of record, case number 2007-07, license number CCC050481. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: John Allison. Do I hear a second? MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear any discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, there isn't much discussion, is there? MR. JOSLIN: It's discussed. MR. GUITE': What is this power of attorney for? Is it blanket power of attorney? MR. BLUM: Pretty much. MR. GUITE': You could have a blanket power of attorney? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We never were given it. Mr. Neale, you want to chime in? It's not in the packet. MR. BLUM: It's been mentioned that Mr. Schneider has made deposits and he didn't make this deposit into Mr. Alison's account. He had pretty much carte blanche. MR. NEALE: Absent the -- having the power of attorney in front of me, I can't define what it says or what it grants him power to do or whatever. MR. GUITE': But it might be just power of attorney just to pull the permits, not to actually go out and do the banking for the company. MR. BLUM: Does that matter, really, for what we're doing? MR. GUITE': I think it does, because I don't think he committed Page 49 June 20, 2007 the fraud. I think Mr. Schneider committed the fraud. He's guilty by, what, proxy? I mean, I don't think that's fair to him. MR. BLUM: He's got to be responsible for people out there representing him, and he's got to oversee them. MR. GUITE': He has taken that responsibility. MR. BLUM: And when he gets a phone call from a customer that says, where's my money -- MR. GUITE': And he has taken that responsibility. He has not put that onto the wayside. MR. BLUM: I don't see it that way at all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going to go back. I'm going to make -- I'm going to make a motion that the fraud charge be removed. Do I have a second? MR. GUITE': I'll second. MR. BLUM: Whoa, whoa, whoa. MR. NEALE: You've still got a motion on the floor -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, I've got -- what? MR. NEALE: You've got a motion on the floor -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I do have a motion on the floor. Okay. I can't do that. MR. LEWIS: Les, before you go there. Let me bring this up. Just hypothetically thinking, clear your heads for a minute. Look at the time frame that this is happening, listen to the testimony that was given by Mr. Allison. Simply stated -- and I'll paraphrase -- the man was renting out his license to John Schneider to go down here and do contracting business in Collier County without his supervision. How many times has this board sat here and discussed with contractors that rent out their license? This is exactly the same thing that we're talking about. Yeah, maybe the guy didn't mean -- maybe he didn't mean it to happen. I know I'm responsible for what happens in my company, just as Page 50 June 20, 2007 the rest of us are that have companies. And in that, I just -- and it may be conjecture on my part, but this sounds look a typical case of, I'm exempt, I'm renting my license, and I'm letting somebody else run a business under my general license, and that's exactly what this looks like to me. Now, whether it is or not, I don't know. MR. GUITE': Well, he-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. MR. LEWIS: Yes. MR. BLUM: That's what I first thought. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Response. MR. GUITE': I didn't think of that. I didn't-- MR. BLUM: We still have a motion on the floor. MR. GUITE': Nothing was presented to that effect, so I didn't-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pardon me? MR. GUITE': Nothing was presented to that effect that he was passing his license to this John Schneider. MR. LEWIS: And I agree. I'm just throwing this out as conjecture. MR. GUITE': I was under the impression that John Schneider was like his supervisor, salesman. And I know of a lot of companies out there where there's -- you know, salesman will take the payments, and maybe not physically do the banking, but -- MR. LEWIS: Well, that's the whole point of my message there is to think about it. MR. BLUM: Can we ask the question? Was he allowed to do banking? Let's ask the question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Doesn't matter. MR. BLUM: I don't think it matters either, but if that's what you want to know, ask. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Doesn't matter. MR. LEWIS: So under the -- under the definitions that were Page 51 June 20, 2007 given to us by our attorney of fraud, false representation, it's happened; action by the owner has happened; and damages have occurred. That's the definition of fraud, and that gentleman, according to the license of the State of Florida and Collier County is responsible for what happens under his license, and that's all -- that's all that we can attest to at this point. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any more discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. Vote is guilty of both charges; is that correct? MR. NEALE: Of the one charge. MR. LEWIS: There's only one charge. MR. NEALE: One charge, fraud. MS. KELLER: Misconduct. MR. BLUM: Misconduct and fraud. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I thought we could go the misconduct route by itself. MR. NEALE: No. Fraud is a subset. What it says is -- it probably wasn't raised. The only charge out there is fraud -- MR. LEWIS: Correct. MR. NEALE: -- because fraud is one of the elements of -- one of the types of misconduct that can be presented -- committed by a state contractor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. Page 52 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One. Okay. You want to do -- do we need to go through penalty phase? Being state certified, did you define that? MR. NEALE: Well, you know, the sanctions that the board may consider in a case of a state certified contractor is that the board may deny the issuance of Collier County or city building permits or require the issuance of said permits with specific conditions. And then determining what sanctions to impose, the board shall consider the brevity of the violation, the impact of the violation, any actions taken by the violator to correct the violation, previous violations committed by the violator, and any other evidence presented at the hearing by the parties relevant as to the sanction that's appropriate. The board also shall issue a recommended penalty for the state construction industry licensing board. And recommendations that the board may make are recommendation of no further action, a recommendation of suspension, revocation, or restriction of the registration or certification, or a fine to be levied by the state board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So we can include a state -- a fine. What about restitution by the state? MR. NEALE: Those are the only recommendations this board can make. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just the fine. MR. NEALE: Fine for unlicensed actions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Discussion? MS. KELLER: Well, I think we want to do whatever we can to get restitution for her, an amount that we are not to determine because it's under the state, right? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but the state's going to have to do that because all we can do is a fine and a fine stays with the state. Page 53 June 20, 2007 MR. BLUM: I will tell you, truthfully, my heart goes out to Mr. Allison. I believe he was duped. I believe he may have made some unfortunate business decisions that affected his livelihood for many, many years. I think all of us somewhere along the line in business have made bad business decisions and live to regret it. We have to pay the piper. I personally would feel a whole -- having been somewhere like that in the past, get this lady paid off and get her paid off quick and, boy, it would make a difference to me, I got to tell you that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I don't feel sorry for Mr. Allison because he wasn't running his company correctly, and if it was -- if someone asked me if I was going to take $500 a month for the next five to six years and having to be calling and wondering if the check's ever going to show up, I wouldn't have accepted it either. MR. BLUM: Nope. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I personally think Mr. Allison needs to have permit privileges in Collier County revoked. MR. BLUM: Positively. MS. KELLER: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I think he needs to be out of Collier County. It's the worst case that I've seen that's been so blatant in a long, long time, many, many years, and Mr. Allison's responsible for it. So with that, I'll make a motion, I'm -- I make the motion that, number one, permit-pulling privileges in Collier County be rescinded and revoked, any permits that are presently going on -- are there any? MR. BARTOE: That would have to be checked. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If they are -- do you have any permits in Collier County now? MR. ALLISON: (Shakes head.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Not an issue. Rescind all privileges for permits in Collier County, and this file be sent to the Page 54 June 20, 2007 state with the recommendation of possible revocation, depending on any other cases that are in other counties throughout the state, and also the recommendation that restitution be forwarded back to the homeowners here, the Haines, if that's at all possible, and fines be imposed accordingly. I can't go any further than that, can I, Mr. Neale? MR. LEWIS: Can't do restitution either. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can ask for it, but-- MR. NEALE: One thing that you may want to include in your motion is not just Collier County, but the City of Marco Island, City of Naples, City of Everglades. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Even though they're within the county? MR. NEALE: Even though they're within the county, you may want to make it specific. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And my motion does include all city entities within Collier County. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Neale, just for the record, Everglades City has its own. We have no jurisdiction over that city. MR. NEALE: Oh, okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which would include Marco and City of Naples, and that's about it. MR. JOSLIN: Would this motion change any if by some strange coincidence Mr. Allison is able to pay these people off? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wouldn't change my opinion in the slightest. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, would you be willing to amend your motion to also include as a recommendation to the state the maximum allowable fine according to the Florida Statutes by the state contractor licensing industry board? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would amend the motion to include recommendation of maximum allowable fine that the state could Page 55 June 20, 2007 Impose. MR. LEWIS: I'll second that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Find my form here. Mr. Neale, do you want to read it. Do you want me to? MR. NEALE: I'll let you do it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let me -- I don't want your computer this time. MR. NEALE: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Need one? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got one there? MR. JOSLIN: I may. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got it here. Board of Collier County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, is the petitioner, versus John L. Allison, Senior, d/b/a Allison Roofing Systems, Incorporated, case number 2007-07, license number, state license CCC050481. This cause came on for public hearing before the contractor licensing board June 20, 2007, for consideration of a complaint filed Page 56 June 20, 2007 against John L. Allison, Senior, was made by certified mail and personal delivery with Collier County ordinance number 90-105 as amended. The board having heard testimony under oath, received evidence and heard arguments respective to all appropriate matters, thereupon issues its findings of fact, conclusion oflaw, and order of the board as follows: That John L. Allison, Senior, is the holder of record of Certificate of Competency number CCC050481. Number two, the Board of Collier County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, is the complainant in this matter. Number three, that the board has jurisdiction of the person, of the respondent, and that John L. Allison was present at the public hearing and was represented by counsel. Number four, all notices required by Collier County ordinance number 90-105, as amended, have been properly issued. Number five, the allegations of fact as set forth until the administrative complaint are approved, adopted, and incorporated herein by reference as findings of fact. Conclusion of law: The conclusion of law alleged and -- alleged and set forth in the administrative complaint are approved, adopted, and incorporated herein, be it 4.2.4, which is under 4.2, misconduct of state certified roofing contractors. The following actions by state certified roofing contractors shall constitute misconduct and grounds for discipline pursuant to 4.3 of this ordinance, and that is 4.2.4, fraud. Order of the board: Based upon the foregoing findings of facts and conclusion oflaw pursuant to the authority granted in chapter 489, Florida Statutes, and Collier County ordinance number 90-105, as amended, by a vote of eight? Nine? Nine in favor and zero opposed. MS. KELLER: One was opposed, wasn't it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, you're right. That vote was Page 57 June 20, 2007 eight in favor, one opposed, for the conclusion of law. The order of the board by a vote of nine in favor and zero opposed. It's ordered that the following disciplinary sanctions and related order are hereby imposed on the holder of Certificate of Competency number CCC050481 : Number one, revocation of all permit-pulling privileges in Collier County effective immediately. Number two, that this case be sent to Tallahassee for action by the Florida state board of contractor licensing with the recommendation that revocation be considered. And number three, that the state board impose the maximum fine allowable by law in this case. That was that, wasn't it? MR. BLUM: Good job. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The rest is done. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. BARTOE: For clarification, the state license number is the CCC number you've been quoting. The Certificate of Competency number is 24665. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That was nowhere in the complaint. MR. BARTOE: That's correct. It's on this certificate. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we took action on the state license only, but -- whoa, stop. He has a competency card as well as a state license? MR. OSSORIO: No, he has a certificate. That is -- any state certified contractor has to have a certificate to be able to pull building permits, and that's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, yeah, I've got that, but it won't get me a cup of coffee, much less a permit. Okay. Makes no -- means nothing. MR. JOSLIN: You need a cup though. Page 58 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Mr. Allison, we wish you well with your problems, but your problems got way out of hand, and we had to shut 'er down. Your case is closed. Thank you, gentlemen and ladies. Next case, jumping right into it. I have reviewed this case, and I'm sure some of you have because I've never seen anything like it before. I speak bluntly, if you haven't figured that out. Case number 2007-08, Mark Radenbush, d/b/a Idyll Construction, Incorporated. In my opinion, from what I see, there is active and ongoing litigation in this case at the present time. And we -- Mr. Neale, we've never heard a case that had active litigation. MR. NEALE: That has been the policy of the board in the past is that cases that have active litigation would not be heard by this board. It's certainly within the purview of the board if you wish to hear it, but the policy in the past and my recollection has been that the board does not hear cases with active litigation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio, given that, why did this come forward, or is it up to us to stop it at that point, or you just recommend it or what happened? MR. OSSORIO: If you're looking for my recommendation as the licensing supervisor, I recommend we hear the case. In didn't (sic) think that this case is not warranted, I would not have brought it. This case is about a code issue, and I've also been trained in the past, and with talking with the state, code violations seem to transcend into what is the responsibility of the licensing board to hear cases. Obviously if this was misconduct or fraud or other natures, we wouldn't be here today. But this is a case that was brought by Mr. Knapp, who is the owner of 230 Lely Barefoot Beach, and he has some issue, some code issues, and it was CO'ed back in April 29th, in 2005. And the building director went out there and looked at some of these items and wrote us a letter, and I'll read those into evidence if we Page 59 June 20, 2007 hear this case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And this board's never heard a code case. Why would we start here? MR. OSSORIO: No, it's not a code case. Code violations of the Florida Building Code. This is not a -- obviously this is a charge under the 2006-46 ordinance. When I mean code, I'm not talking about the Land Development Code. I'm talking about the Florida Building Code of technical requirements that inspectors do onjob sites. But we've heard many code violations on this burden, just we haven't had two attorneys going at each other and it hasn't been in open litigation before. MR. GUITE': When was it CO'ed? MR. OSSORIO: April 29, 2005. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Zachary, what's your take? MR. ZACHARY: I don't have much to add except exactly what you've already said, that this board has not been in the habit of taking cases or hearing cases that involve litigation. I understand Mr. Ossorio's concern about building code violations that may be present, but there's still the tradition this board has had of not hearing those cases until the litigation has been completed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, would you explain why we have that tradition? MR. NEALE: I believe that the board's feeling on that was that they did not want to have the decision of the board influence ongoing litigation, that the board's decision would not be -- that they didn't want the board's decision to be able to be used in the court of laws as probative one way or the other. MR. ZACHARY: We've been concerned in the past -- and I'm not saying that this is the case here. But there are -- there were cases where we could clearly see that this board was being used for leverage Page 60 June 20, 2007 for the civil matter. So that's another certain that always comes up with ongoing litigation of cases being before this board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, you are our attorney. What would your recommendation be? MR. NEALE: Well, my recommendation is that it would require a finding of the new policy by this board to hear this case today, so it would be breaking with at least 10 years of precedent that I know of in hearing this case. If it is a code violation, it might more appropriately be brought before the code enforcement board as opposed to this board, but that's not something I'm willing to opine on. But it would require this board to change a long-standing policy to hear this case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I've been here 20 years, and it's never happened, so I can speak for another 10. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, what's your suggestion? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: My suggestion is we don't hear it because there has been numerous attempts in the 20 years that I've been here where this is used for a springboard on civil litigation or they take findings and things that are said in here, even though it's quasijudicial and we do accept hearsay, and they use those in civil litigation. I don't see an emergency or something that -- I have read through all of this. There's not something that anyone in the public is in immediate danger. There's obviously bad blood, and a lot of bad blood, but I'm not seeing code issues to the extent to where I need to, to protect the public, shut down a licensed contractor. I see it as a civil matter. My recommendation is we don't hear it. MR. HERRIMAN: I so move that recommendation that we do not hear this case. MR. BLUM: I'll second it. MS. KELLER: I think we'd be flooded every month with people Page 61 June 20, 2007 that are currently in litigation trying to get us to opine on their cases, and that's sort of a dangerous -- MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Dickson, these are more contractor-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One at a time. MR. JOSLIN: -- homeowner disputes, from my readings. MR. OSSORIO: Before you actually render -- if it's possible, would you want to hear from Mr. Knapp's attorney briefly, or you just don't want to hear -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to hear from both of them because they sure are entitled to that after sitting here for two hours. Why don't both attorneys come forward, if you would. MR. NEALE: You've got a motion and a second on the floor. MR. BLUM: If we're not going to hear the case, why do we want to do this? MR. NEALE: Yeah. MR. BLUM: This doesn't seem right here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just courtesy. MR. NEALE: Well-- MR. JOSLIN: Let's take it off the floor then. MR. BLUM: This goes nowhere. MR. NEALE: Do you have a motion and second, Mr. Herriman? MR. HERRIMAN: I made a motion. MR. BLUM: You've got a motion and a second. MR. NEALE: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. NEALE: I would be concerned having-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry, guys. MR. NEALE: -- testimony on the record if the board is going to proceed with not hearing the case. And then if it comes along subsequently after the litigation's settled and the board does hear this case, I would be concerned that there had been previous testimony outside of that hearing that the board would have heard. Page 62 June 20, 2007 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. You guys understand that, don't you? You all understand that, don't you? MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, go ahead. MR. LEWIS: Prior to consent of vote, I think it would behoove the board to have some type of evidence that there is litigation actually going on with this case. MR. NEALE: Yeah, I think that is appropriate because if -- there needs to be some evidence brought forth, and that's a good point by Mr. Lewis, that there is, in fact, continuing litigation, because ifthere's not -- MR. LEWIS: We should hear the case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that even disputed that there's continuing litigation? MR. LEWIS: I think if we just-- MS. KELLER: It's in the Circuit Court right here. In the Circuit Court is the first page. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come forward. MR. JOSLIN: Well, we've still got a motion on the table. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, I opened up the book like not knowing where to go, and the first thing I come to is a lawsuit. MR. NEALE: Well, you have a motion and a second, and I believe that this could be considered to be essentially discussion or testimony on that motion. This motion and second hasn't been voted on yet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Turn to tab two. First thing you come to is the lawsuit. MS. KELLER: And tab one as well. MR. LEWIS: But you've got to remember, this is not evidence yet. We haven't asked -- taken this into evidence. MR. BLUM: We're asking about civil litigation. There it is. MR. LEWIS: You have to present that as evidence. Page 63 June 20, 2007 MR. NEALE: Yeah. You can actually take notice of the -- of this packet. The board can take official notice of the packet because -- MR. JOSLIN: Can we hear portions of this case just to-- MR. BLUM: Why? MR. NEALE: I would suggest the only thing to hear, because of the motion that's on the floor, is whether there is ongoing litigation or not -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion only. MR. NEALE: -- and then let the board decide on that matter, and then if the board decides that they want to hear the case, then proceed to hear the case. If not, then the case is done for the day. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion on the motion? MR. NEALE: I do believe that it would be appropriate to hear some testimony on the record that there is, in fact, litigation going on. MR. LEWIS: From both attorneys. MR. NEALE: From both parties, too. MS. KELLER: Well, why don't we put this into evidence because it's in there? MR. NEALE: I think -- what I would suggest is not having that into evidence because then, again, it's the same issue as hearing testimony on the merits of the case, as you would have had this as testimony that you would have heard, you know. It would be official part of the records. MR. LEWIS: If it behooves the board, I respectfully request that both attorneys for the parties in this case come forward, and since they're attorneys of the court, report to us as to the continuance of the -- or if there is a lawsuit. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. Just state your name. I don't need to have you sworn in. MR. SLACK: Mr. Chairman and board, my name is Mark Slack. I'm an attorney of Collier County, Florida, and as an officer of the court, I represent to you that there is continuing ongoing litigation, Page 64 June 20, 2007 both a -- an original complaint filed by the Knapps and a counterclaim filed by Idyll Construction. It's case number 05-1296-CA-THB. MR. LEWIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. Yes, sir, your name, sir? MR. HAJEK: Joshua Hajek, attorney in Collier and Lee Counties. Represent the Knapps. The representation is correct, there is ongoing litigation, although I would submit to the board that the code issues at issue here can be and should be considered separate from that litigation. MR. LEWIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. Okay. Discussion on the -- thank you, gentlemen. Discussion on the motion, which is not to hear this? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, can I just speak for one second, smce -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Of course you can. MR. OSSORIO: -- both attorneys had to. As a licensing contracting supervisor, it is my job to enforce 2006-46, Collier County contractor licensing ordinance. And the previous building director, Bill Hammond felt the same. This is a case -- and I believe I agree with Mr. Hajek, the -- Mr. Knapp's attorney, in saying that this is actually separate. This is a code issue back in 2005, no matter what it was, electrical, plumbing, mechanical, safety, nonsafety. I believe that this actually transcends civil litigation, and that's my opinion as a licensing officer, and obviously that's my opinion and my staffs opinion, is that we've put a lot of time and effort into this. I'm neutral to both parties. But as of -- this place had been CO'ed back in 2005, in April. I believe that the county has a responsibility, an obligation to Mr. Knapp to make sure that this builder completes the technical requirements of the 2001 Florida Building Code. Page 65 June 20, 2007 MR. JOSLIN: But did you not say that this house has already been CO'ed in 2005? MR. OSSORIO: That's right. MR. JOSLIN: How did it get a Certificate of Occupancy if there are code issues or violations? MR. OSSORIO: Well, Mr. Joslin, I know you're a builder-- MR. BLUM: We've got to stop. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're getting into the case. MR. OSSORIO: We can get into that in the case. I'm not going to elaborate more on that, but that's part of the docket and that's part of the -- my case summary, and I haven't submitted that evidence into the board, but that's just our concern. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm -- personally I'm going to follow the lead of the attorney that's hired to represent us, so -- keep us out of trouble. MR. BLUM: I think the original motion still stands. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion still stands. Anybody else have discussion on it? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. HERRIMAN: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? Page 66 June 20, 2007 (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's unanimous. We're not going to hear it until your litigation is finished. Reports. There are none. Hurricane emergency. Mr. Neale's going to research that. Next meeting is July 18th. Anybody know they're not going to be here? , MS. KELLER: I'm not going to be here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ann's not. MR. HERRIMAN: I'm not going to be here. MR. NEALE: A suggestion was made -- and I think it's appropriate -- that we -- the board consider not having a meeting in August. There's a variety of reasons, people being gone, people being on vacation, and that's also the time that the licensing staff is going through the midst of license renewals, and they're going to be sort of up to their eyeballs. So I would suggest that the board consider not having an August meeting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So say Michael? MR. OSSORIO: That's correct, Mr. Neale. We are going through a midst of renewals in August and September. I wasn't going to bring it to the board's attention, but we are looking for no board meeting in August. We'll have one in July. August and maybe even September we're going to try to back off due to the budget constraints, that we're going to be very busy, and we're going to need to focus on renewing licensing versus getting the board ready with the packets and doing staff paperwork in that matter. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do budget constraints affect board-- these meetings? MR. OSSORIO: It does when we have to prepare. Obviously we're -- you know, if you have three staff members and one of them is dedicated for two weeks to get the licensing board prepared, receive documents, and do the necessary day-to-day operation to get to the Page 67 June 20, 2007 licensing board, yes, it is busy. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wow. Do you guys want to make a motion not to have a meeting in August. MR. BLUM: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Both months, August and September. MR. BLUM: No, let's wait till July to do September depending. MS. KELLER: September, let's do September. MR. BLUM: Let's do August for now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But he's saying September's going to be extremely difficult as well. MR. OSSORIO: Those two months are going to be very busy. August definitely. September-- MR. JOSLIN: That's hurricane season. MR. OSSORIO: Huh? MR. JOSLIN: That's hurricane season. MR. BLUM: Okay. August and September. MR. JOSLIN: I don't think we ought to do September yet. Let's just -- MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. I think August is fine. MR. JOSLIN: August for sure. MR. OSSORIO: We'll leave September the way it's at, and I'll notify the board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's do this. MS. KELLER: October. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Come on. She's still typing. Let's agree to no August and leave September up to him. MR. BLUM: And July he'll let us know for sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, and if we have the business that needs it, then you'll deliver packets and we're on. Otherwise we get a call from Megan, no meeting. MR. OSSORIO: Exactly right. Page 68 June 20, 2007 MR. BLUM: Okay. That works. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's great. Motion's done. He said it, they seconded it. We all voted on it. MR. NEALE: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have to caution everyone, the tendency is going to be to talk about this case after the meeting. Please don't do that because it's probably going to come back to us and we will be in violation of the sunshine law. MR. JOSLIN: Considering that this packet is so involved and so MR. NEALE: I would suggest the packets both -- MR. JOSLIN: Hold on to it. MR. NEALE: -- parts -- no. Both parts, the county side, and the respondent's side be given back to county staff so that you don't have any further chance to look at it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We'll help you carry it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're not adjourned here, guys. Let's follow order. Is there anything else to come before this board? Now, do I have a motion to adjourn? MR. JOSLIN: Motion so moved. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You should have seen poor Terri down there. We're adjourned. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11 :00 a.m. Page 69 June 20, 2007 CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, Chairman These minutes approved by the Board on presented or as corrected , as TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS. Page 70