CLB Minutes 05/16/2007 R
May 16, 2007
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
Naples, Florida
May 16, 2007
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing
Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with
the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Les Dickson
William Lewis (Absent)
Sydney Blum
Ann Keller (Absent)
Richard Joslin
Lee Horn (Absent)
Michael Boyd (Absent)
Eric Guite'
Glenn Herriman
ALSO PRESENT:
Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer
Mike Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor
Robert Zachary, County Attorney
Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board
Page 1
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
DATE: WEDNESDAY - MAY 16, 2007
TIME: 9:00 A.M
W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION BUILDING)
COURTHOUSE COMPLEX
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
DATE: April 18, 2007
V. DISCUSSION:
VI. NEW BUSINESS:
Ivan E. Coleman-Comer - Review of credit report.
Richard E. Arnold, Jr. - Review of credit report.
Yasilis M. Pena - Request to reinstate plastering/stucco license without retaking exams.
Gregory Scott Miller - Request clarification for type of license needed for Tennis Courts
Frank P. Milana - Request to reinstate plastering/stucco license without retaking exams.
Gary F. Little - Review of experience affidavits.
VII. OLD BUSINESS:
VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Steve Tompkins - Contest Citation #4392 issued for advertising without a Collier Co. license.
Case # 2007-07
John L. Allison, Sr.
d/b/a Allison Roofing Systems, Inc.
IX. REPORTS:
X. NEXT MEETING DATE:
June 20, 2007
3101 E. Tamiami Trail
Naples, FL, 34104
May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. I'd like to call to
order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board
for -- what is today -- May 16, 2007.
Anyone who would like to make an appeal of a decision of this
board will need a verbatim record, which is being taken.
I'd like to start with roll call on my right.
MR. HERRIMAN: Glenn Herriman.
MR. BLUM: Sid Blum.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson.
MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin.
MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We do have a quorum. We may have
one or two coming in late, which will be fine.
Mr. Bartoe, any changes to --
MR. BARTOE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, board members.
For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance
Officer. And before we get into additions or deletions, I'd like to
introduce to you a new member of the building department, Mr. Bob
Dunn. He's the Planning Review and Inspections Manager. Mr.
Dunn's sitting right here.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning, Mr. Dunn.
MR. JOSLIN: Good morning, Mr. Dunn.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got to meet him coming up.
MR. BARTOE: Additions or deletions. Case number 2007-07
will be deleted from today's meeting. Weare postponing that until the
June 20th meeting.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Keep those files, right?
MR. BARTOE: Staff has no other additions or deletions.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do I hear a motion to approve
the agenda as amended?
MR. BLUM: So moved, Blum
MR. JOSLIN: Second Joslin.
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell me your name again, Ron or--
MR. DUNN: Bob Dunn.
MR. BLUM: Bob Dunn.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Bob. We were talking coming up.
Lisa you'd be interested in this. House passed a bill yesterday as they
were closing their session. You would not believe the impact on
buildings. Like storm shutters for houses over 750,000. If they don't
have them, not insurable; 300,000 within the coastal control zone.
Improvements, when there's a reroof -- it's all sorts of things. It's a
massive bill, and it hasn't really settled out yet, but those were the
main -- you were on top of it already, weren't you?
MR. DUNN: A little.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. So it's going to have some
major impacts in the building industry. Some of these things go into
effect, like roofing, for example, has to have a secondary water
proofing membrane, which we're already doing. We have been for
several years. Essentially it's two roofs. It's more expensive. And
now it's mandatory as of October 1 st. And a lot of these new codes
are immediately going into effect.
I wish I was in the shutter business.
MR. DUNN: This is a perfect place to get your license.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, my gosh. If someone would give
a shot in the arm to my industry like that? Unbelievable. Whatever.
Has nothing to do with us, but we're sure it's going to affect us. We
will see some applications for shutter companies, I'm sure.
Need to -- you all had a chance to go through the minutes in the
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last meeting? Any additions or deletions?
MR. BARTOE: I have a correction. It lists Mr. Boyd absent.
Mr. Boyd was here. He was late, not absent.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Correct. Anybody else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to approve the
minutes as amended?
MR. JOSLIN: Motion to approve.
MR. BLUM: Second.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done.
Nothing in discussion. We're on and running.
New business. Ivan Coleman, Coleman-Comer, are you here?
MR. COLEMAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, sir, come up to the
podium. I'll have you state your name, then I'll have you sworn in.
MR. COLEMAN: My name is Ivan Coleman.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. The only thing we're looking
at is your credit report. Do you want to tell us what happened?
MR. COLEMAN: My wife and I had bought a business in
Illinois before we moved down here in 1999. We had restructured the
loan on the business. Our lease said that if we got an offer to sell our
business, that the landlord has first rights to buy the business. He
exercised his rights to buy the business.
On the day we were to close, he backed out of the deal. We
didn't know until then that he had a deal going behind us to sell the
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May 16, 2007
property and the -- our license to a chain liquor store.
We went to our attorneys. He wouldn't reinstate our lease so we
could reopen the business. He was basically forcing us out of the
building. We had lost four factories in Decator during that two-year
period. The economy was real bad.
Our CPA and bankruptcy lawyer told us to enter bankruptcy to
protect ourselves to try to get everything organized and redone.
With the way the economy was in Decator, they advised us that the
best thing to do was to close down, offer everything we could, and
take bankruptcy on the rest.
We ended up selling our farm and paying off the SBA loan, the
original mortgage on the farm and most of the bills. We ended up
with some sales tax left that followed us down here.
I sold everything else that I had. I had about $5,000 when I
moved down here four years ago, barely enough to get started. It's
been a rough row to hoe for us. We're back getting on our feet. We
owe about -- oh, let's see, I think -- oh, we owe less than $6,000 on it
now. Most of it is penalties and interest that gained over the time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you not make a settlement offer
to them?
MR. COLEMAN: We did. They wouldn't accept it. They told
me to just keep paying. So I've got -- like I said, I've got -- I've got
about 5,800 left on it. I think about 400 of it's principal.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that the state, you say?
MR. COLEMAN: Yeah, that's the State of Illinois.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, that's why they won't.
MR. COLEMAN: They wouldn't negotiate on it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I see that you're licensed in Cape
Coral and Fort Myers?
MR. COLEMAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And when did you get those licenses?
MR. COLEMAN: A little over a year ago. Just passed my first
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May 16, 2007
year.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And your office is in Cape
Coral?
MR. COLEMAN: Yes. I run it out of my house.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you had any problems in that
year?
MR. COLEMAN: No, other than work slowing down the last
two months.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now, I went through Gary, Indiana,
and someone forgot to turn out the lights. I know what you're talking
about.
MR. COLEMAN: I'm just -- I've got contractors that I worked
for as a superintendent when I was with Harrington Construction with
Deangelis Diamond, and Bradanna, that both told me that they would
have work for us, some small jobs that we could do, if I could get a
license here in Collier County. And we have a door manufacturer in
Fort Myers, Stanton Door, that would like for us to do a door install on
one of your new schools.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, John Deangelis is one of the
best in town.
MR. NEALE: For the board's reference, I'll give you the update
on what the definition of financial responsibility is. It's defined as the
ability to safeguard that the public will not sustain economic loss
resulting from the contractor's inability to pay his lawful contractual
obligations. So it's a -- as related to the contracting business
particularly.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's county's opinion?
MR. OSSORIO: For the record, Mike Ossorio, Collier County
Contracting Licensing Supervisor. We have no objections for this
applicant to receive a cabinet license. It's the process he has to go
through to get the license, that's all. That's required.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you feel better about maybe a
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May 16, 2007
one-year probationary period, no problem during that time, probation's
gone, he's on his way?
MR. OSSORIO: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How's the board feel?
MR. JOSLIN: I think that would be in line.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd rather deal with a guy that stands
up to his debts.
MR. JOSLIN: There's no credit to really follow through.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, there isn't, but he's been in
business for a year and there's no complaints on him or problems yet.
MR. JOSLIN: Right.
MR. BLUM: There's no new bad stuff in here.
MR. JOSLIN: Yeah. There's no new bad stuff.
MR. COLEMAN: No. We just got caught up in a bad situation.
Like I said, he had been approached by a chain liquor store. I had
went back up to Illinois in November or October of last year for my
brother's funeral. Lo and behold, he now has the chain liquor store
operating out of our location.
They wanted that location because it's the location that had been
as a liquor store in Decator for over 25 years.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. COLEMAN: We had bought the business off of some
friends of ours that had retired and moved to Sarasota.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Someone want to make a motion?
MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion that we grant Mr. Coleman a
door and trim carpentry license on a restricted basis for one year. If
there's no problems after the one-year period of probation, it turns into
a full license.
MR. COLEMAN: Thank you.
MR. BLUM: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion?
(No response.)
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that okay, Mike?
MR. BARTOE: It's a cabinet installation license.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Cabinet installation.
MR. JOSLIN: Cabinet.
MR. BLUM: Does that --
MR. BARTOE: That does let him do trim carpentry.
MR. JOSLIN: Hmm?
MR. BARTOE: That does let him do trim carpentry.
MR. JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. OSSORIO: It's considered under -- it doesn't say trim
carpentry. It says millwork, so that's the same category. But we agree
with the outcome. That's fine.
MR. JOSLIN: He can do door and trim carpentry through in the
process of what he's going to do?
MR. OSSORIO: He can do baseboards, trim, millwork.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Got it for a year. Stay clean.
MR. COLEMAN: Thank you.
MR. BARTOE: Mr. Dickson?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: For you and everybody that's here,
your files and all your paperwork is here. Don't go to the county
today. They won't be able to do a thing for you. Tomorrow, okay.
MR. COLEMAN: Thank you.
MR. BARTOE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Richard Arnold, are you present?
MR. ARNOLD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you'd come up, sir. State your
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May 16, 2007
name, I'll have you sworn in. We'll go through the same routine.
MR. ARNOLD: My name's Richard Arnold.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you've got an open tax lien?
MR. ARNOLD: I did have one.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You did?
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah. It's not -- it's no more.
MR. JOSLIN: It's released.
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah, it's released.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Released?
MR. JOSLIN: Last page.
MR. ARNOLD: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anything else?
MR. ARNOLD: No.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, just -- I want to clarify why this
gentleman's here today. He applied for a license with our office. We
noted that there is a discrepancy in his credit report that there was a
tax lien on his credit report. It has been abated due to the fact that it
was -- it's still unpaid. It's just that it did not get renewed, so it got
taken off his credit, but he has not paid.
So my assumption would have been that if he wants to get a
license, he has to go in front of the licensing board to tell the board
why he didn't pay his debt, his tax credit. I mean, it's an enforceable
lien because it was so many years ago; am I correct, Mr. Arnold?
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah, it's been over -- it's been almost 10 years
-- yeah, right at 10 years.
MR. OSSORIO: So what he -- in fact, he waited till the last day,
and then when it got taken off, he applied for a license. But I thought
it would be prudent for me to bring it to the board, let the board decide
on its own merit.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What was the lien for?
MR. ARNOLD: I had --
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can you talk a little bit louder.
MR. ARNOLD: Sure. I got a little bit of a cold, so --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. ARNOLD: I was doing -- working for a company in
Naples, and I had somebody doing my taxes for me, and I didn't file --
I didn't pay in enough quarterly. I didn't know they had put the lien on
me until about three years ago.
In '92, '93 I had not filed timely, and I had $4,800 coming to me
and 1,200. I thought that money was going to be added to what I
owed on this money. And I had somebody doing my taxes, and I
thought it was taken care of.
Three years ago I went to buy a vehicle and realized I had the
lien. Now, I contacted IRS, and I've been paying $100 a month for the
past year or so, and then they also took out my -- any returns I've had
for the last three years, they've taken that money. And then, of course,
this year -- this year here, I get money back.
But what I owe mostly is penalties and interest. It was only
$4,000. I think it was like 700 something dollars in interest.
MR. JOSLIN: I have a quick question for Mr. Neale.
MR. NEALE: Yes.
MR. JOSLIN: Maybe I'm just missing it here or maybe I'm not
aware of it, but when you file for a corporation, don't you have to file
also for a tax ID number and EIN number?
MR. NEALE: Yes, sir.
MR. JOSLIN: Does that follow the corporation?
MR. NEALE: Yes.
MR. JOSLIN: Okay. This my question then. On page -- well,
almost to the end, the third page from the end, I have an application
for employment identification number page that shows the EIN
number as being 205740846. Do you see that? Okay. On this
application though it lists the business as being a handyman screen
license.Š
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May 16, 2007
MR. ARNOLD: No, that's not right. It was supposed to have
been changed over to glass and aluminum.
MR. JOSLIN: Well, it doesn't say so. And in turn, on the
application for the new license and the new corporation it shows the
same EIN number.
MR. BLUM: Do we have a full credit report here? Because I
didn't -- did I miss something?
MR. JOSLIN: Now, is this something that needs to be corrected
before we carry on here, or -- I don't think he can file an EIN for his
taxes with this number if it's already been applied towards another
license or another handyman screen license, which this is the way it's
listed.
MR. ARNOLD: What I had done was I had -- I was in the
process of taking the test and everything for glass and glazing and had
already applied for repair -- handyman license, and they were
supposed to -- they just switched the number over to the glass and
glazing is what they've supposed to have done.
MR. JOSLIN: Well, at the corporate entity it says that they have,
according to the number that's listed.
MR. ARNOLD: I had Thomas Walden, accounting service here
in Naples, do that for me.
MR. JOSLIN: Any input?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we can continue and the county
can clear that up if we approve the credit report.
MR. JOSLIN: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we'll lay that on Michael's staff.
Do you agree, Michael?
MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. That's an internal process, and we will
check into his EIN number and his corporation. I didn't even catch
that.
MR. JOSLIN: If the EIN number follows that handyman license
though, then he would just have to file for a new EIN number for the
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May 16, 2007
new corporation, right?
MR. OSSORIO: I will check into it. I'll talk to the state.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're still calling on these
verifications, aren't you?
MR. OSSORIO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Got some --
MR. NEALE: I see what you're talking about, Mr. Joslin.
They've got -- he filed -- he got an EIN number for Richard E. Arnold,
LLC --
MR. JOSLIN: Right.
MR. NEALE: -- that shows the same EIN number as Gulfview
Glass and Aluminum, Inc.,
MR. JOSLIN: Right. So he's got an LLC corporation, then he
has another corporation under the same EIN number, which doesn't
make any sense. I don't know how you would --
MR. NEALE: Strange. How the IRS did that is really sort of a
bigger questions.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, try to explain them.
MR. JOSLIN: They'll have a good reason, I'm sure.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And people think it's impossible that
you don't know that the IRS files a lien. What he says is true. Yeah,
they slip liens in without notification. I've seen it happen countless
times.
MR. GUITE': They just did that to me.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did they?
MR. GUITE': Yeah. Now I have to go back to my attorney to
get it cleared up again.
MR. ARNOLD: Once I went to them and asked them to try to
work this thing out, they were -- I mean, they were pretty reasonable.
They wouldn't -- they wouldn't take the money that -- they wouldn't
give me the money they took from me because they punished me by
not filing timely, but they didn't have a problem with me making
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May 16, 2007
payments and working with me on that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah.
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah. I didn't know anything about it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't feel bad, but it happened to me
in 1993. I had no idea. And then once we became aware of it, we got
it cleared up. But there's no posting, there's no mailing, there's no
nothing.
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah. I never got nothing.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, just before you make your
findings, it says here in the first page of Arnold's affidavit to you, I
had one-time occurrence of debt in the Internal Revenue Service. The
record shows that I have took (sic) responsibility for my obligation
and satisfied my obligation in full.
I don't know, Mr. Arnold, if you want to explain to the board, is
that something -- is that true or is that something misleading that
maybe you wrote?
MR. ARNOLD: No.
MR. OSSORIO: You took respo -- did you pay it in full or did --
MR. ARNOLD: I owe penalties on that. So it's not actually paid
in full, but I owe the penalties. But I've been paying on them, and
they've taken -- you know, I've had three years where they've tooken
my returns of 12 -- 2,400 last year, 1,200 the year before.
MR. OSSORIO: But that wasn't for you doing it. They
automatically do that anyway, so it wasn't like you were going to write
them a check. Have you ever physically wrote them a check for your
outstanding balance?
MR. ARNOLD: No, not the -- not the full balance. I've been
making payments on it.
MR. OSSORIO: Every year when you don't get your tax return?
MR. ARNOLD: Well, I've been making $100-a-month
payments. I put that in there, but I took that out. I mean, I took
responsibility to contact them and make arrangements to start paying
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May 16, 2007
on this lien, and they accepted it, and I started making monthly
payment.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you've made $100 payments for
how long?
MR. ARNOLD: It's been right about a year or so now.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So that's 1,200.
MR. ARNOLD: And then they took 2,400 last year from me
from my income tax.
MR. JOSLIN: What was the total amount that you owed?
MR. ARNOLD: It was 4,000.
MR. BLUM: There's 5,000 left here. The balance assessment is
5,012.38.
MR. OSSORIO: It's just that the numbers don't add up, that's all
MR. GUITE': I don't understand why--
MR. BLUM: They don't.
MR. ARNOLD: Well, 1--
MR. GUITE': -- they gave him a release ifhe still owes a
balance, because they wouldn't give me any.
MR. JOSLIN: The statute of limitations maybe has something to
do with it possibly, I'm not sure. Maybe Mr. Neale could help us. I
don't know why they would give it. Why would they release a tax lien
over -- for a period of time, because the statute of limitations runs out
or --
MR. NEALE: Well, they do have the ability to refile, and for
some reason the IRS chose not to refile this lien. Because they had the
ability to refile the lien and extend it. For some reason they chose not
to.
MR. GUITE': Can they come and refile it again?
MR. NEALE: Once it's -- well, they've already filed a release.
Yeah, the release is already there, so it -- from a legal point of view, it
no longer exists as a lien on his assets.
MR. BLUM: According to this, it was $6,109 on 3110 of'97.
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May 16, 2007
There's an unpaid balance of 5,000. Mr. Arnold's saying it was a
$4,000 debt. And if! add up what he's told me he's paid, that comes
to 4,000, so I don't see interest and penalties. I don't -- like what Mr.
Ossorio said, it doesn't add up.
MR. GUITE': Where's the 6,109?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, they'll have 20 to 30 percent for
penalties, and then their interest is -- no one can calculate what the
percentage is.
MR. GUITE': On this page--
MR. JOSLIN: The 600--
MR. GUITE': -- 6109, that's actually the last four digits of his
social security number.
MR. BLUM: Oh, is that what that is?
MR. JOSLIN: Yes.
MR. BLUM: Sorry about that.
MR. JOSLIN: That's not money.
MR. BLUM: My apologies, sir.
MR. JOSLIN: It's really 5,012.38.
MR. BLUM: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The rest of his credit report is fine.
I make a motion that we approve the credit report and the license,
before it be issued, the county clear it up as far as the federal ID
numbers and proper category, but the credit report be approved.
MR. GUITE': I'll second.
MR. JOSLIN: How about probation for a year or two just
because of the things that have already happened?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm going to leave it alone.
MR. BLUM: I'd be in favor of probation.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. JOSLIN: Do the motion.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion and second?
MR. GUITE': Second.
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. I'm not concerned about it
really. He's got a good, clean credit report. It wasn't that big a deal.
Four or five thousand dollars. The IRS got their money back. He's
kept his nose clean that whole time. He's got a good credit report. I
look at who some of the references are that you got references from.
Those are some pretty powerful names. Tommy Turner just won't
sign anybody's.
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah, Tommy's --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, they don't come any better
than that man.
MR. JOSLIN: Randy Johnson, I know him personally.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So I'm going, that's a good man. Let's
put him to work.
MR. ARNOLD: Both of them are friends of mine.
MR. OSSORIO: Just to let you know, we did call and verify
that, too, as well.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more discussion?
MR. OSSORIO: I did note that as well, that his credit -- his
affidavits were outstanding.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Call for the vote. It's approving
the credit report, no probation.
Made and seconded. All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it.
MR. ARNOLD: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tomorrow.
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May 16, 2007
MR. ARNOLD: Thank you.
MR. JOSLIN: Look into that ID number though. That might
even --
MR. ARNOLD: I'm going to do that today.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're going to have to clear that up
to get your license though, okay.
MR. ARNOLD: All right. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, my. Does that say -- Yasilis
Pena?
I don't know if I did Yasilis right.
MS. PENA: Yasilis, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come up here, say it again. I want to
know.
MS. PENA: Yasilis.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yasilis?
MS. PENA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yasilis?
MS. PENA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The Y is a J?
MS. PENA: It sounds like a J, yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Welcome.
MS. PENA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now that you've said your name, I
need to have sworn in though.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You don't look like someone who
does plastering and stucco.
MS. PENA: Me and my husband are the owners, and I don't
physically do it. I can if I need to. I already learned how to do it. My
husband tought me himself.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MS. PENA: But my husband will do it. I will go and supervise
Page 17
May 16, 2007
and check the boys out and see what they're doing, see what he doesn't
see. And I like it, it's --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you want to--
MS. PENA: It's a hard job.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why did your license expire to start
with?
MS. PENA: See, we originally used to go to the county and pay
the -- and renew the license there, and then they started sending it by
mail, and I started renewing it by mail. And I didn't realize -- when I
started getting the occupational license card, I didn't realize I wasn't
getting the other card, which is the white one.
And I'm just going around and, you know, renewing the
occupational license thinking I'm already licensed and didn't realize
that, no, I'm not licensed. I didn't renew the other one.
I didn't even know. I was completely in the dark about that. And
I kept renewing the occupational license. I had my insurance, you
know, on file, renewed and everything. Everything was fine. So I'm
thinking I'm already renewed.
Then when I find out that my license is not renewed, I was like,
why not? I've been renewing it every month, you know -- I mean
every time it comes. Why isn't that renewed?
So then when we went to the county, the county tells us, no, it's
not renewed because you only renewed the occupational license.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you were still working during that
time?
MS. PENA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MS. PENA: Because I didn't know. I mean, I had no idea until
that county person went over to one of our jobs and said, you guys
don't have a license. And I -- he actually called me and I said, what
are you talking about? I have a license. And he's like, well, according
to my records, you don't have the license renewed. I'm like, that
Page 18
May 16, 2007
doesn't make any sense. I've been renewing it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That will never -- that will never
happen again, will it?
MS. PENA: Oh, no, sir, no, sir, because we're going to the
county next time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. They've changed the name of
that occupational license. It's called a, what, a business tax now?
MR. OSSORIO: Business--
MS. PENA: Yeah.
MR. OSSORIO: -- tax receipt.
MR. NEALE: Business tax receipt is what it is.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because that was a big confusion. It
had nothing to do with the license.
MS. PENA: Yeah, I know. I -- you know, I messed up there. I
really thought that I was renewing the license.
MR. GUITE': When did her license expire?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When did it expire?
MS. PENA: About two years ago.
MR. OSSORIO: Two years ago. They have to renew in
September, and she went actually two cycles without having a license.
The county gives you 13 months approximately until you have to
retest. If you haven't had the exams within three years, the policy has
always been that testing must occur.
MR. GUITE': When did they first get their license?
MS. PENA: When -- I'm sorry?
MR. GUITE': When did you first get your license?
MS. PENA: '98. No, not '98. 2000. We started working in '98.
It was 2000.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And could you catch this? They're not
workers' compo exempt.
MR. JOSLIN: Yes, they are.
MS. PENA: Yeah, we are.
Page 19
May 16,2007
MR. HERRIMAN: Their company is.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But they've got a workers' compo
policy.
MR. JOSLIN: Yeah, that's okay.
MS. PENA: We are -- the officers are.
MR. JOSLIN : Yeah, the officers are.
MR. OSSORIO: Was there a citation issued for that, on that job
site?
MS. PENA: Yes, sir. We paid it.
MR. OSSORIO: Have you paid it?
MS. PENA: Yes, sir.
MR. JOSLIN: What was the citation for?
MR. OSSORIO: Working without a license.
MR. JOSLIN: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. There is a receipt here, isn't
there?
MS. PENA: We usually -- you know, we always try to do
everything that we're supposed to and get everything on time and
responsibly because, you know, we live out of this, so --
MR. GUITE': Are you currently licensed up in Charlotte and
Lee County?
MS. PENA: Weare, yes, sir. Not in Lee, in Charlotte.
MR. GUITE': In Charlotte?
MS. PENA: Yes, sir.
MR. GUITE': It hasn't expired up there?
MS. PENA: No, sir.
MR. JOSLIN: Does anyone else have a problem? Discussion?
(No response.)
MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I second.
Discussion?
MR. NEALE: Just to clarify, the motion is actually to waive the
Page 20
May 16, 2007
testing requirement for the reinstatement of the license.
MR. JOSLIN: To waive the testing requirements for the -- to
renew the license.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I second that.
Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're obviously a good company.
MS. PENA: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Been in business a long time.
MS. PENA: We try.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we're in a great mood today and
we like you. But you just --
MS. PENA: Thank God for that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You just made a slip-up. It will never
happen again.
MS. PENA: Oh, no, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Approved.
MS. PENA: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tomorrow.
MS. PENA: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you.
MR. OSSORIO: Just for the record, Mr. Dickson, I'm glad
you're in a good mood today. It's much easier.
MR. JOSLIN: Well, at least part of the meeting we are.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I can't -- you never know when
that mood's going to change.
Page 21
May 16, 2007
MR. GUITE': It might change at any second.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I know one thing won't change
it today.
Gregory Scott Miller. Are you present?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Uh-oh.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I don't believe --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You all can leave if you want to, or
you can watch.
MS. PENA: Oh, thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Whatever you want to do.
MS. PENA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Gregory Scott Miller?
MR. OSSORIO: I don't think Mr. Miller's going to be here. We
had a conversation with the City of Naples. This is a case that the
City of Naples was going to enter into a contract for doing some tennis
courts. The City of Naples asked for a clarification.
The building director and I came down to a conclusion that he
would have to be a general contractor or building contractor. We just
don't have a category for tennis courts, and he wanted to ask the board
their opinion. But I spoke to the building director, gave it to him, he'd
abiding by that binding (sic), and so he doesn't need to show up, I
suppose.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. I read that packet. That's some
nice work.
MR. OSSORIO: He does excellent work. I've heard from Tom
Bartoe that we had a license years ago for tennis courts. The other
coast has a tennis court license. It's a two bar test and a practical
exam. We just don't have that, so it lumps into being a building or
residential or general contractor because it involves lighting and
subcontracting out and requires a building permit.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So the tennis courts didn't start?
Page 22
May 16, 2007
MR. OSSORIO: Tennis courts did not start.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not like the skateboard arena. Okay.
MR. OSSORIO: It was a very nice presentation though.
MR. DICKSON: Yes, it was. Good.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Frank Milana?
MR. MILANA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you'd come up, please.
If you would state your name, and I'll have you sworn in, sir.
MR. MILANA: Good morning. My name is Frank Milana.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're probably feeling real good
about this at this point, aren't you?
MR. MILANA: Yes, I am.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Same license, same request.
MR. MILANA: Yes, I am, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Tell us what happened.
MR. MILANA: Well, back in 2000 I had some health problems.
I wrote a letter here explaining what happened. And I'm back on my
feet again.
I started another corporation. It's called c.R. Benge, and we're
working in Lee County right now, and I need to get my plastering and
stucco license for Collier County.
I'm before the board and I'd like you to waiver (sic) for me to
retake my test. I've been in this county for -- since '86. I've had no
complaints, and I feel -- I'm before the board to see if you guys can
reinstate my license. We have all the insurances in place, workman's
comp., general liability.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You had ruptured hernias?
MR. MILANA: Yes, I did.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wow.
MR. MILANA: I had two umbilical ruptures, then I had two
lower ones. I'm very physical. When I first started my business, I was
Page 23
May 16, 2007
hands on and I would tackle houses by myself. And I paid the price
for it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Were there any complaints on him?
MR. MILANA: No complaints.
MR. OSSORIO: None. Just as a little bit different, Mr. Dickson.
This is a -- this gentleman's taken the exam back in 1986. I believe in
1986 the Block & Associate and the trades were one exam. The code
has changed since then, too, as well, and now it's a trades exam and a
business procedure test. So there are two exams. You can look in
your packet and you can see the date of 1986.
And he's also changing -- the corporation shut down, and now
this is a whole new corporation, so this is a little bit different than the
previous applicant.
MR. JOSLIN: So we're not redoing something that was existing
before?
MR. OSSORIO: Yeah. He's -- you are actually going to waive
his testing experience due to the fact that we don't even have that test
anymore. We've changed.
MR. JOSLIN: Is the test more stringent?
MR. OSSORIO: I think the business procedure test is. It used to
be one test with business questions in it. Now it is a trades test and a
business test.
MR. MILANA: Plus, I'd like to also say, I work on custom
homes, $2 million and up. I've been in the Audubon. I've done
probably about 40 homes in there. I have impeccable references. I
know I just gave you three on my application, but I'm pretty well
known in this town.
MR. BLUM: His credit report's very interesting.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, when you come in, we get a full
packet, and when we get a full packet, one-item question, you open up
the whole thing. And we would not be doing our job if we didn't ask
you about these federal tax liens.
Page 24
May 16, 2007
MR. MILANA: Sure. I paid -- some of them you can see that
are paid. When I got ill, I ended up selling my house. The liens that
were on my property, they took money off of it, and that's how those
got paid. And I know I have a couple more years that I owe. I owe
like 9,000 or 6,000 or something like that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, there's some that will --
MR. MILANA: Some that were --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- be on top of you through October of
2010.
MR. MILANA: Right.
MR. BLUM: How long have you been ill?
MR. MILANA: Well, I just started getting back and working in
2005.
MR. BLUM: So you've been back -- you've been back active for
two years now?
MR. MILANA: Yeah.
MR. BLUM: Because there's an awful lot --
MR. MILANA: Well, the business we just started in the
beginning of this year. I've been working for hourly -- for an hourly
company. I wasn't doing any contracting business.
MR. BLUM: There's a bunch of collections here that go through
most of'07 and '06, and we go back to '01, Ford Motor Credit.
MR. MILANA: That's when I fell ill. My trucks got
repossessed.
MR. BLUM: Yeah, I could see those from what you're telling
me. Then we've got a whole nother bunch from '06 and '07 as well.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Here's--
MR. JOSLIN: Some of them are current.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There are current collections that
you're dealing with.
MR. MILANA: I'm not -- not that I'm aware of. I mean --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: According to your credit report there
Page 25
May 16, 2007
IS.
MR. MILANA: Collections in, per se, as -- credit card
collections, you mean, or something like that?
MR. BLUM: Midland Credit collection account, Providian,
charged off, bad debt.
MR. MILANA: Credit cards.
MR. BLUM: Charlotte City Bank, charged off, bad debt.
There's numerous, numerous ones. There are some that are paying as
agreed, which is -- looks good, from --
MR. MILANA: I'm trying to get back on my feet, and I mean,
I've made an effort to try to pay some of these debts off. It's not like
I'm neglecting them.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, we understand, too, but you
understand what we have to do. What you heard on some others were
things that had expired and you're dealing -- in other words, why
would we tell you to go take a test when we're not going to approve
your license because of your credit? Do you follow me?
MR. MILANA: Right. Okay. Well, my -- we started a new
corporation, and my credit ain't going to have nothing to do with it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. Your credit does have everything
to do with it.
MR. MILANA: Does it?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. MILANA: Well, I'm before the board and I'm pleading to
reinstate my license. You know, I've been in this area for a long time.
I know I've given you some references, but I can sure go back and get
you a lot more.
MR. JOSLIN: Who are you currently working for now?
MR. MILANA: I'm working for West Point Development,
Ashburton Development. We do work for Landmark, Cypress
Corporation.
MR. JOSLIN: You're mentioning we, meaning you as in --
Page 26
May 16, 2007
MR. MILANA: My partner.
MR. JOSLIN: -- your partner.
MR. MILANA: C. R. Benge.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Does he have a license?
MR. MILANA: Yes, in Lee County.
MR. BLUM: That may be something you want to consider
trying to do, talk to Mr. Ossorio about your partner getting licensed in
Collier.
MR. HERRIMAN: Who's the president of the new corporation?
MR. MILANA: Randy Benge or Chris Benge.
MR. HERRIMAN: Are you an officer?
MR. MILANA: My wife is an officer, Angela Milana.
MR. HERRIMAN: Sounds like the wrong person is applying.
MR. JOSLIN: Sounds like to.
MR. OSSORIO: Lee County has the same testing company, they
have Thompson. So ifhe's plastering/stucco in Fort Myers, then
surely that applicant can apply for a license with Collier County with a
reciprocity letter from Lee County.
MR. MILANA: Just a letter from Lee County?
MR. OSSORIO: Well, a letter. He would have to be the
qualifier. The company's been open for one year. We would need a
credit report on the company and also his credit report as well.
MR. MILANA: Okay. Well, the company hasn't been in
business for a year, so I can't get a credit report.
MR. OSSORIO: No problem.
MR. MILANA: You can get a credit report on --
MR. OSSORIO: Can be a credit report on the individual who's
going to qualify your company.
MR. MILANA: What I'm -- what I'm trying to -- why I'm here is
I want to get my license back so I can qualify the plastering/stucco to
C. R. Benge because they do not have a plastering/stucco. They just
have a drywall license.
Page 27
May 16, 2007
MR. BLUM: That explains it.
MR. MILANA: That's what I'm trying to get to.
MR. JOSLIN: So are you doing plastering and stucco for them, I
mean, for these people that you listed?
MR. MILANA: We're doing drywall, just drywall.
MR. JOSLIN: Just drywall?
MR. MILANA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Need a motion.
MR. JOSLIN: Motion -- I make a motion that this package
application from Mr. Milana be denied.
MR. BLUM: I'll have to second that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Here's why we're doing it, Mr.
Milana, not that we don't want to help you out and work with you,
because that would be the easy thing to do. I can feel this board after
20 some years, the first thing -- if everything else was clean, the first
thing they would have done is they would have wanted you to retest
because it's been so long.
MR. MILANA: Okay. Can I--
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, let me finish.
MR. MILANA: Okay, go ahead.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But also retesting is superfluous
because of the fact your credit would never fly through this board to
approve a license. So if you would have come in with current testing
and a current license and all of that, this file still would have come to
this board because of your credit report, and we would not have
approved this credit report.
MR. MILANA: Okay. I've got a question, if my credit was -- if
C. R. Benge comes in here, our corporation, we can't --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We don't care about the corporation.
The corporation is a living, breathing entity within itself. We deal
Page 28
May 16, 2007
directly with the license holders, and that's you. And your credit
report -- your credit is absolutely crucial. Yes, we want both of them
to be good, but the license holder is the crucial one, and yours would
not have flown.
MR. MILANA: So the reason you're not going to reinstate my
license is because of my credit report? My license was never -- if I
never would have -- if I never would --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You need --
MR. MILANA: If! never renewed (sic) it and my credit report--
my credit's still messed up, I'd still be able to do business; is that what
you're telling me?
MR. BLUM: If you hadn't let it lapse.
MR. MILANA: Even when I had -- let's say my license was still
active and my credit report's messy, I still can do business, right?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you had never had liens or lawsuits
against you on a job, yeah, that's true.
MR. MILANA: But I don't understand. I'm saying in the
process of having your license in this --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me explain. Don't nail yourself
up yet. The fact that you let the license expire, that opens the whole
thing up again. You -- we would have sent you for testing. What
we're telling you, and tried to help you out here, is it wouldn't do you
any good to go test and come back because we wouldn't approve it for
the credit report; am I correct?
MR. BLUM: That is correct.
MR. MILANA: Okay. Well, under my situation, what happened
to me. I'm just asking for a little bit of mercy.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know. There's lots -- there's lots of
situations, but we're also told by the county commissioners what we're
to do on this board, and we don't let credit reports like that get a
license. So you need to clean it up.
MR. JOSLIN: If you were to go and straighten this credit out--
Page 29
May 16, 2007
MR. MILANA: How am I going to clean it up?
MR. JOSLIN: Well, that's -- the way you have to do it is go back
and get these collection accounts brought up to date or paid off or
involved in taking these things away on your credit report, that way
we can look at you with a different eye and we can say, okay, well,
maybe he missed the boat on filing for his license. In that case, if you
had an impeccable credit report, yes, we may have sent you to take
another test because the laws have changed since you had your
license, however, you'd have been able to get your license. At this
point, like Mr. Dickson said, I don't think it would happen.
MR. MILANA: But my credit report doesn't reflect my trade. It
do not -- I don't --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It affects -- I mean, it does reflect
your business and your ability to pay bills and not have problems and
protect the consumers.
MR. MILANA: I don't have -- I don't have where, my supply
company, where I never paid them.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: End of discussion.
Call for the vote. All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm sorry. It would not fly.
MR. JOSLIN: Sorry.
MR. MILANA: I beg you, please.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's done, I'm sorry.
MR. MILANA: Your Honor, can I just say one thing?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. You're finished.
Page 30
May 16, 2007
MR. MILANA: I can't?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're not happy. Nothing's going to
make you happy.
Garry Little, are you here?
MR. LITTLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now you're probably wondering, oh,
boy.
State your name, sir. I'll have you sworn in.
MR. LITTLE: Gary Little.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, before we get started, I want to
tell you why Mr. Little is here today. Obviously his credit looks good,
his affidavits even look fine, but as the contractor licensing supervisor,
in the realm of things, is when we verify -- verify a construction
experience. You can see the very first one and it says, Leroy Jenson,
Sundance Enterprises interior trim work and metal framing, drywall
work from 2001 to 2007.
When I did call Mr. Jenson, it seemed like he was more of a
piecework kind of contractor or, you know, I saw him, he's been
around for a while and doing odd jobs, but he really didn't have a
license.
In our office, we make one or two phone calls for experience, and
we feel that, unfortunately, Mr. Little has been a homemaker. I'm sure
he's more than qualified to be a carpentry contractor. He can show us
affidavits from up north where he's from. But we felt uncomfortable
issuing a license. The fact that he was doing some piecework in
Collier County for so many years, we thought that that's something the
board decides.
But we have no objection with Mr. Little getting his carpentry
license today. Just wanted to let you know that. With that said.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So basically you just want to really
verify that he has the experience?
MR. OSSORIO: I believe he can document experience, but
Page 3 1
May 16, 2007
unfortunately, on the affidavit, the very first one we've called and
verified -- I'm not saying that it's not true -- but maybe Mr. Little can
elaborate that he's been a homemaker for many years and he was, on
the side, doing some carpentry work for some friends, neighbors,
whatever it might be. But something like that we like to bring in front
of the board so he can explain to you his experience over the years.
MR. LITTLE: That is true.
THE COURT REPORTER: I need to swear you in.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh.
MR. LITTLE: Sorry.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Fire away. Floor is yours.
MR. LITTLE: A homemaker, I don't know. I guess that's what
you call it, but sometimes it's nice to see somebody happy when you
can fix their front door for them or put on new locks. But as a
full-time job, that wasn't true. I was part time with that. I was a
stay-at-home dad and I was trying to be a golf pro at the same time.
So this was just a secondary thing for me.
I'm a fill-in for a number of years. I didn't know that it was
required at that time to be licensed to do that. I do now. And then I've
proceeded to take the test and do what I need to do to become a
licensed carpenter so I can take this at a more serious level.
As far as Sundance, you know, I -- he seemed like a really nice
guy, and there was a time that I did work for Sundance. It wasn't for
any period of time. He would hire me just to come out to the job and
basically just oversee it or clean it up because -- times where just -- he
would hire other people and they were kind of messy and it just wasn't
quality work. So I'd just kind of come in, you know, maybe for a
week, two weeks at a time and just help out and move things along,
and it was never really any long-term work with him.
And being that my ex-wife was a workers' compo attorney, this
whole lesson with workers' compensation -- and me and JR, we kind
Page 32
May 16, 2007
of had our falling out, but 10 and behold, we still know each other as
carpenters, and that's basically what he's vouching for is that he knows
that I am a carpenter, and now that he -- he's the one that actually had
me go through all this to become licensed because of his need for me
and some of his general contractor's needs.
So hopefully, you know, I can get my license.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have the experience besides
him?
MR. LITTLE: You know, in Naples I could say yes, a few times.
But in Canton, Ohio -- that's where I'm from. Right out of high school
I spent three years working with a gentleman, an older gentleman.
How lucky was I, but believe me I learned my lesson working with
older carpenters. And so I spent three years with a remodeling
company before I decided to go back to college.
With summer breaks and Christmas breaks, I came home, I was
always to pick up with the contractor somewhere doing work. In fact,
the gentleman's name was Dennis Rosetti. He used to build homes
just himself. He subbed everything out. So the things that he didn't
want to sub -- I mean, I labored for a pipe fitter, a plumber, we framed
our houses, we did all the finish work, set all the doors, so that was
during college.
After college I got a job selling kitchens, selling siding, so I was
able to do a take-off selling siding. I could install the siding. I was
working for a company called Jones & Brown out of Pittsburgh. And
so I sold kitchens and all their business materials and serviced some of
their accounts.
We also sold windows, and they would send me to houses with
stress fractures or stress cracks in the windows and I would -- you
know, I was qualified to do their work as well. So on down the line.
I feel like I'm ready to retire from carpentry, but I think I need to stick
with it a little bit longer. For the last 20 years I would say that off and
on somewhere I've been doing carpentry work for somebody or some
Page 33
May 16, 2007
person. Particularly, I would prefer homeowners and just stay away
from the job sites. I tend to enjoy that and get my satisfaction from
that.
MR. JOSLIN: How did you come up with the name, just out of
the curiosity, of GFL Consulting?
MR. LITTLE: GFL Consulting? Well, I kind of wanted to be a
superintendent slash kitchen designer slash, come to my house, tell me
what you think, and then I'll tell you -- spend three days with you or
three hours with you and my travel time, and I couldn't really bill out
for it. How am I going to bill out for this -- my design or my advice to
you and your house?
So if somebody says hey, I want to do a build-in, give me some
ideas? I can hand draw them a design. I present it, they take it and
say thanks, but you know, that's a blueprint I just made to scale, and
for me to then order this and put it in, you know, that's still some
money there to be picked up.
And so I originally thought that I wanted to be a supervisor and
just sell my design and leave it at that, and that was -- that wasn't
actually full time. That was kind of a part time -- and just kind of put
carpentry to the side. And if! did sell the job, then I could do the
carpentry work.
A lot of times I tried to bid my jobs a little higher than most and
sell my cleanliness, but -- so it wasn't -- I opened that in, say, 2003,
and it really wasn't current until 2004.
Proper loan requirements ask you, what are you doing for a
living. I can't really say because 2004 to 2005 I was a golf pro, like I
said. So you know, how -- I didn't make any money as a golf pro, so
then where'd you get your money? So what did you do before that?
So I had to renew that license to just show that that's what I was doing
for the consecutive years to require to get a loan. Confuse myself? I
may.
MR. JOSLIN: I just have a problem with that, that's all.
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If anything, it will hurt him more than
it will help him.
MR. LITTLE: The lady at the county said, hey, maybe you
should do consulting and carpentry. And I was like, I don't know.
Sounds like a great idea. You can just use my name for all I care. You
know, I'm not afraid of just saying, this is my name, and you know, do
my taxes that way, but it was her idea, and I was like, okay, maybe
that will work.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because everyone when they retire, as
soon as they retire, you ask them what they do, they say they're a
consultant. Everyone's a consultant after retirement. If anything that
name will hurt you more than it will help you.
MR. LITTLE: I can change it, you know.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd go for design or something, but
consulting, that ain't going to do you any good.
MR. LITTLE: Well, you know, I do get these sales pitches on
the cell phone there, somebody trying to sell me oil in Texas and
consulting engineering firms, and I say, you know, maybe I may have
made a mistake with that consulting. But it's -- it was basically just to
do -- supervise jobs and oversee maybe some damage or something
and to tell them what I thought.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the purpose here is to look at your
experience, and when you gave your experience, that's identical to my
experience -- I'm in roofing -- because I roofed through college so I
wouldn't have do this as a living. And so --
MR. JOSLIN: Oops.
MR. LITTLE: Thanks a lot.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Kind of like what you're saying about
carpentry, all of a sudden you're back in it. But I -- if that doesn't
pass, then mine probably wouldn't have passed for my license --
MR. HERRIMAN: Right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- so I don't have a problem with you
Page 35
May 16, 2007
at all.
MR. LITTLE: Thanks.
MR. JOSLIN: Believe it or not, I did the same thing with
swimming pools. Thirty-five years ago was my first job out of high
school. I said, I'll never build another pool, and I'm still doing it
today. Hello. What's up with that?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So I move to approve your experience
for your license.
MR. LITTLE: I'll change the name maybe just to carpentry.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's up to you.
MR. LITTLE: Okay.
MR. JOSLIN: I would like to see that happen, but I'm going --
there's no order I can make. But I think it would hurt you, too.
MR. BLUM: I guess I'm the bad seed on this board or
something, I don't know, but I have to interject a little bit here.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. BLUM: I, too, have very similar -- you all know I was an
air-conditioning guy for a lot of years.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pull that mike a little closer to you.
MR. BLUM: And it was a lot of years since I was in an attic.
Have 40, 50 guys out there working. Now I'm going to come before
this board and renew my license based on experience to do
air-conditioning, and I'm going to go out and install condensers and
air-handlers in attics.
I can't really show you that I've got that great experience doing
the work. I sure as hell know all about it. I've been at it for 35 years.
No way, no how in all honestly I would be competent to actually do
the physical work that that license would require me to do.
And I'm sorry, but Mr. Little doesn't show me, by what I've heard
and read, that he can do hands-on carpentry for what I would consider
would be necessary for him to do in his own business doing his own
work.
Page 36
May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. BLUM: I've got a problem with that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I have a problem with the way
you're looking at it.
MR. BLUM: That's my way, Les.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If that's the case -- because most of
the licenses we approve are not to the people that are going to do
hands-on work. And if that's the case, every builder must build his
own house.
MR. BLUM: No, no. The distinction I'm making is, he wants to
go out and do it. He's not going to have -- be the owner, which I think
he's capable -- more than capable of being an owner, dealing with
customers, selling jobs, overseeing it, making sure it's done right. I
got no problem with that. He now wants to be the hands-on guy. I
don't see him having the experience to be the hands-on guy.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, okay.
MR. BLUM: That's the difference. That's quite a distinctive
difference.
MR. JOSLIN: On the trades exam that he took, it's a carpentry
exam, I assume. Isn't there some type of trade ideas or --
MR. OSSORIO: He's taken the trades test, he's taken the
business procedure test and also taken the Gainesville independent
carpentry exam; am I correct, Mr. Little?
MR. LITTLE: Right.
MR. JOSLIN: So that qualified him, I suppose, to pass the test,
which qualifies him to have some knowledge of the business.
MR. BLUM: Time out. We've had person after person come in
here that can pass the test to qualify a business. Those aren't the
people that do the work. You're missing the distinction I'm trying to
make here.
And we are here approving experience, because he's going to be
hands on with the tool belt doing the work. I don't see the experience
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May 16, 2007
either on the paper or by his own admission. That's what I don't see.
If he was coming before us to qualify a license, I'm there. That's not
what he's here for.
MR. HERRIMAN: Sounds to me like he's had a hammer in his
hand on and off for the last 20 or 30 years.
MR. LITTLE: I've pulled the grip off a couple times.
MR. BLUM: Yeah, and I appreciate your levity, and you're a
heck of a nice guy --
MR. LITTLE: I got a storage unit; I pay $150 a month on
Goodlette- Frank there off of Immokalee Road, and I have a Makita
12-inch slide miter, I got a DeWalt 12-inch mite, I got a wet saw. It's
a new state-of-the-art wet saw with a glass cutting blade in it for glass
tile. I got a saw that cuts metal studs. I got probably six different
cordlesses, hammer drill cordless, impact cordless. I got a right angle
close quarter cordless. I got a -- I mean, I'm loaded up. I look good
on the job, that's one thing.
MR. BLUM: Mr. Little, with the --
MR. LITTLE: I got an '07 Tahoe that I work out of there, and
people are like, how do you keep yourself so clean?
MR. BLUM: I more than appreciate your candor and I more than
appreciate your humorous anecdotes and presentation. I'm totally
unconvinced that you're qualified to be a carpenter in a person's home.
And notwithstanding, $10,000 worth of tools just doesn't do it for
me, SIr.
MR. LITTLE: I can--
MR. BLUM: And I think you're a hell ofa nice guy.
MR. LITTLE: The tools do make the job.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let's -- stop. I made a motion
to approve that doesn't -- it's going to die for lack of a second.
MR. JOSLIN: Second.
MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more discussion?
Page 38
May 16, 2007
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed?
MR. BLUM: Nay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it.
MR. LITTLE: Thanks.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tomorrow.
MR. JOSLIN: Gee, that was painless.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where were you a golf pro?
MR. LITTLE: Excuse me?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where were you a golf pro?
MR. LITTLE: I played just -- the last year for Golden Bear Tour
over in West Palm.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Boy, my game sure needs some help.
MR. JOSLIN: I'd really rather not see GFL Consulting though
on your business card.
MR. LITTLE: Absolutely. I'll change it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do we need -- no old business.
Anybody need a two-minute break? It's only been an hour. Oh, two
hours -- or an hour.
MR. BLUM: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two-minute break?
(A brief recess was had.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Recall this meeting back to
order.
We have public hearings. Steve Tompkins contests a citation
issued for advertising without a Collier County license.
Steve, are you here?
Page 39
May 16, 2007
MR. TOMPKINS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, sir, come up to the
podium, and I'll have you sworn in. And state your name, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Steve Tompkins.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio, do you want to say
anything first?
MR. OSSORIO: For the record, again, Mike Ossorio, Collier
County Contractor Licensing. Andy Wuhrer, one of our Licensing
Officers, will be presenting this case since he issued the citation for
code issues.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And I'm looking for -- I know
I've had this thing, but I just can't find it. Because I read it. Oh, there
it is.
MR. NEALE: Three pages.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Got it. Andrew, I'll let you go ahead
and start, sir. If you'd state your name.
MR. WUHRER: Yes. For the record, Andrew Wuhrer, Building
Department, Contractor Licensing.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I'll have you sworn in.
(The speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're going to enter -- do you
want us to introduce what -- we'll call this packet --
MR. WUHRER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- three pages, as Exhibit 1. Do I have
a motion to approve this?
MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second.
MR. BLUM: Second.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
Page 40
May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. Go ahead, Mike -- or Andrew.
MR. WUHRER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the
board.
As is normal course on patrol, we do check on various and
sundry contractors working. This vehicle was seen, and a check
showed that the advertising for this vehicle, lawn sprinkler -- lawn
maintenance and sprinkler systems showed no license for that -- for
that job classification.
Subsequent to that, a citation was issued pursuant to 2002-46,
9105, as amended. That citation was issued to this gentleman's
company.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, that will be his opening
statement.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sir?
MR. OSSORIO: That's his opening statement.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you want to -- well, okay.
You want to treat this like a whole case, Mr. Neale? It's not a case
number.
MR. NEALE: No. In the past I just pulled up a previous contest
of citation. The board does make a formal finding of fact and
conclusions oflaw. There's no recommendations made since it's really
a hearing more on the -- on the merits of the citation. And I want to
take a look at the statutory issues, but it really does have -- it doesn't
need to be -- and let me -- if you give me just a second, 1'11--
MR. BLUM: Could I ask, are we just ruling on the name on a
truck, or did he actually do sprinklers -- I mean, we're not saying he
did sprinklers and he's not licensed to do them. We're saying that he
advertised it so the potential was to do it; is that it?
MR. WUHRER: Yes.
Page 41
May 16, 2007
MR. OSSORIO: We don't know what the potential of the
applicant is. All we know is we have a standard policy in the building
review and permitting department that if you advertise or promote
yourself to be a contractor, there is a civil penalty of $300 process --
$300 fine.
With that said, they have 10 days to appeal it to the Contractor
Licensing Board, and this gentleman has taken that right, and here he
is today before you.
I believe that you're just going to either uphold the citation or say
the citation should be dismissed.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead, Mr. Neale.
MR. NEALE: And that's 49.127, that the hearings are to be held
before this board. If they fail to appeal, which they have appealed, it's
a waiver of the right. And really what you are here to determine is
whether the citation was valid and then determine the penalty on that.
So really what you're doing is, if this -- the respondent can prove
that the citation's invalid or that the violation's been corrected prior to
appearing before the enforcement board, the enforcement board may
dismiss the citation unless the violation is irreparable or irreversible.
And then once -- if you do find that they are -- the violation
exists, then the board may order the violator to pay a civil penalty of
not less than the amount set forth on the citation but not more than
$1,000 each day for each violation.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's hold that one.
MR. NEALE: Yeah. So that's if you find him in violation.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. At this point -- I mean, I know
he issued the citation. We've heard -- we've got the citation in front of
us.
So with that, I'm going to turn to Mr. Tompkins. I've read your
two-page letter. I mean, respond.
MR. TOMPKINS: Well, I was waiting for you to say that.
Basically everything is stated in that two-page letter, the fact that, you
Page 42
May 16, 2007
know, I started in business over 20 years ago. I came to Naples in '75
with my step dad who actually took Harmon Turner's position as the
first County Manager, Dale Cunningham.
And I graduated from Lely, started this business with this name,
Gulfshore Lawn and Sprinkler. Originally I had a partner that was
going to take off with the sprinkler part of it and he never did.
So I ended up as a sole proprietor with that business name and have
renewed the license for that name for the last 20 years and at different
times was asked to sign different paperwork stating the fact that I had
no intention on doing sprinkler irrigation type work, which I never
have done. We've always operated as just simply, you know,
landscape, property maintenance outfit, and that's all we've gone, and
we weren't, I don't believe, caught doing any type of sprinkler work --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No.
MR. TOMPKINS: -- and I don't intend to do that. But that's
always been my name, and I've always renewed it as that and filed
with the county and state for my fictitious name and filled out
paperwork stating that I wouldn't be doing sprinkler work and
explained to them how I started out with the name and have been
operating under that name for all these years.
And I've never, ever been approached or, you know, encountered
anything like this, and I just don't understand why all of a sudden
someone drives up and sees Gulfshore Lawn and Sprinkler and
determines that I've got a name misrepresented because I'm not
licensed to be a sprinkler company.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, now, don't say that. You were
doing good till then. But you put your foot in your mouth then. I
mean, it's very obvious. Anyone with common sense would say, okay,
they do lawn and sprinklers. I understand your situation. You were
going to, it never happened, and for 20 years it went on. But the
county was doing their job.
MR. TOMPKINS: I understand that, too.
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. TOMPKINS: My -- any time -- Alan Kuehnert with West
Florida Sprinklers, which is my original partner, he's in business doing
business as West Florida Sprinklers. He does all my work, and he can
verify that anytime. All we ever do is -- for our clients is simply turn
on the irrigation system and look at it. And if there's a problem with
the system, then I call Alan and he comes out and takes care of the
problem.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Alan does my house.
MR. TOMPKINS: Oh, is that right?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know him well.
MR. TOMPKINS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, what the heck do we do
with this? Come on?
MR. NEALE: I wish you hadn't asked me that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, you're the legal guy.
MR. TOMPKINS: The biggest problem I have--
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, no, no.
MR. TOMPKINS: Okay. I'm sorry.
MR. NEALE: The question, as far as I see it, turns on whether
he is attempting to do unlicensed contracting or if he's holding himself
or advertising himself for a trade for which he is not licensed, and
that's really what the board has to determine.
Now, if, in fact -- ifhe has signed this -- this documentation,
which we don't have -- but, you know, he's under oath so you can take
him -- can take him at his word -- then while he may appear to be
holding himself out, if he is, in fact, not contracting to do that work,
then there may be some advertising issues. But he probably is not,
you know, in the strictest possible terms, holding himself out to be a
sprinkler contractor, because if somebody calls him up and he says, I
don't do sprinkler contracting, it may be slightly misleading. But as
long as he's not carrying through with it, he's probably okay.
Page 44
May 16, 2007
The other issue is, if he went in business 20 years ago -- and this
is something I can't -- don't have the answer to because I haven't
researched it -- was there a sprinkler contractor license in Collier
County at the time?
MR. JOSLIN: Or it was landscape and sprinkler together as one,
possibly.
MR. NEALE: Maybe. I mean, that's something in 1987 or
whenever it was he went in business. You know, I don't -- I could
probably research the issue, but I don't know. In that case is there
potentially some sort of grandfathering issue going on?
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean -- yeah. And Mr. Ossorio,
understand, you guys are doing your job, and I can argue your side,
too.
MR. NEALE: I mean, I --
MR. OSSORIO: I'm willing to go ahead -- I just want to ask a
couple questions to Mr. Tompkins, if you don't mind, because I need
to get clarification as well.
There is -- just to let you know, there is a license out there called
landscaping unrestricted, and that was irrigation landscaping together,
and lawn maintenance. We don't have that license anymore. We have
separated that license under landscaping, and there's a new trades test
for irrigation.
But Mr. Tompkins' statement here to me is West Coast Florida
Sprinklers does not -- does all of my sprinkler repair installation work
and can verify that. I submit that that is contracting without a license.
If you have a contract with a homeowner and the homeowner
does not know who is doing the work and you go out and find a
contractor to do the irrigation, that is contracting without a license.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right.
MR. OSSORIO: I've checked our database, I've checked the
State of Florida for fictitious name, I do not see it, and I could be
Page 45
May 16, 2007
wrong, but I believe he is a sole proprietor using the name, far as I
know. I've checked the website of myFlorida.com, and I also checked
the corporation records, and I do not find Gulfshore Lawn and
Sprinkler Service, Incorporated.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who's Gulfshore -- oh, this one.
MR. TOMPKINS: I'm not incorporated, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. TOMPKINS: I'm a sole proprietor.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you file a fictitious name?
MR. TOMPKINS: Yes, I did, State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would that not still be recorded?
MR. OSSORIO: I have not seen it. Can you produce it today?
MR. TOMPKINS: No, I didn't bring that with me. I would have
that at home in my records. It was several, several years ago.
But what you were saying about me subcontracting through
Alan, West Florida Sprinklers, I simply, when there's a problem with
the irrigation system, call Alan and tell my customer to get ahold of
Alan or for Alan to get ahold of them, and then he works through the
customer.
I don't, in any way, subcontract through Alan and have it run
through the business. So there's no way that I'm any part of that.
Once the irrigation problem, you know, occurs, then I simply make a
phone call to Alan, and he deals with the customer directly.
And all I'm trying to do is just keep from having to change my logo,
my trucks, all my shirts, bank checks, government information,
everything, which I've stated, of course, in my letter already.
MR. OSSORIO: Do you have that information here today, your
bank checks and your corporation, your fictitious name, your pictures
of your trucks? How many trucks do you have?
MR. TOMPKINS: I just have the one.
MR. OSSORIO: So you told the board you have trucks. So it's
just one truck or two?
Page 46
May 16, 2007
MR. TOMPKINS: It's just one truck.
MR. OSSORIO: How many employees do you have?
MR. TOMPKINS: Three.
MR. OSSORIO: Three. Do you have a workers' compo policy?
MR. TOMPKINS: Yes, I do.
MR. OSSORIO: Do you have a copy of that?
MR. TOMPKINS: No, I didn't bring any of that. I was here to
try and fight this thing about the fact that my business had sprinkler
written on it, which I've been renewing for over 20 years. And I was
just wondering why I was never approached by the county or the city
before and told that you can't have this name.
MR. JOSLIN: You mentioned something before about a
gentleman from West Florida Sprinklers that was your partner?
MR. TOMPKINS: Yes, originally.
MR. JOSLIN: Originally. How much originally are we talking
about, last year, two years?
MR. TOMPKINS: Just for the first couple years in business.
MR. JOSLIN: First couple years in business?
MR. TOMPKINS: Yeah. And then he decided to do other
things, and he later got into the sprinkler business.
MR. JOSLIN: Is that when the name occurred or the name--
MR. TOMPKINS: The name started out as Gulfshore Lawn and
Sprinkler, and Alan, at the time when we started out, didn't have a
sprinkler license, and they talked to us about it, and why does it say
this, when we first got our license, and we simply signed forms that
stated the fact that we were not going to do any type of sprinkler work
under this name as far as, you know, doing sprinkler work and
installation or repair until we were licensed to, but this is why we
started out with the name because that's what we were going to do in
the future.
And then Alan went on, they gave me permission to keep the
name as long as I didn't actually do sprinkler work. It's just a name.
Page 47
May 16, 2007
MR. BLUM: Who's they? Who's they?
MR. TOMPKINS: The county and the City of Naples. Kind of
like in the -- there's a cut above tree service and a cut above lawn care
and a cut above lawn service. All three with the same name, but
they're all operating under different, you know, licenses. And I'm just
trying to say that I don't want to do sprinkler work. It's just my name.
It's just the way it started and it's the way I've been operating for
all these years. I've never done anything wrong. And I just -- I'm
trying to avoid having to change all these things that have to do with
my name.
MR. BLUM: You're really not contesting this citation then; are
you? The citation is correct in reality, right?
MR. TOMPKINS: Well, if I felt that way I would have just
simply paid the citation and avoided coming up here and, you know,
taking your time.
MR. BLUM: Well, you want to avoid having to change your
name, which we can all appreciate.
MR. TOMPKINS: Exactly, that's the main part.
MR. BLUM: But I want to get to the facts of the case that -- the
way it's presented to us, you're not wanting to pay this citation, that it's
incorrect.
The reality is, it probably is correct. It was written properly. It's
presented properly. Our investigator was right. You just don't want to
do sprinklers, but the citation is right. I think you do have to admit
that, right?
MR. TOMPKINS: Well, I would say in your mind, it's obviously
right or he wouldn't --
MR. BLUM: No, I'm asking --
MR. TOMPKINS: -- me the citation. I don't feel it's right.
MR. BLUM: You don't, so--
MR. TOMPKINS: I feel if!--
MR. BLUM: -- willfully or deliberately --
Page 48
May 16, 2007
MR. TOMPKINS: He drove up--
THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me.
MR. TOMPKINS: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wait. You're both talking at the same
time.
MR. BLUM: Excuse me. I didn't know I was -- I didn't know I
was finished.
MR. TOMPKINS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
MR. BLUM: It says here, willfully or deliberately disregard or
violate -- relating to uncertified or unregistered contractors. You are
uncertified and unregistered to do sprinklers, and that's what your
name implies. So is that or is that not right? I'm just asking. I'm not
trying to be confrontational. But to me it appears correct.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now you can answer.
MR. TOMPKINS: I guess, if that's the way you--
MR. GUITE': Mr. Neale--
MR. TOMPKINS: -- feel, then it would be correct.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Whoa. Wait, wait.
MR. TOMPKINS: It would look as though I was advertising
sprinklers. I agree to that. But I'm not, and I've been licensed under
this name for all these years. That's all I'm trying to say. I don't
intend to do sprinklers. I'm just trying to avoid changing the name of
my business and my clients that I've had for over 23 years aren't going
to say, Steve, what's going on. Are you unprofessional, unrel-- why
are you changing your name, for what reason, and I have to explain all
this to them, and I just -- I'm trying to avoid that, that's all.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Down here.
MR. GUITE': Is having sprinkler in his name actually
advertising sprinklers?
MR. NEALE: Well, there's a couple of issues that I'd like to
point out. Number one is, the citation says that he is -- the exact
language is willfully or deliberately disregarding or violating any
Page 49
May 16, 2007
ordinance relating to uncertified or unregistered, right, contractors.
So first the board would have to find if -- to make the citation
valid, to determine that it's valid, that he willfully or deliberately
disregarded the ordinance, and you have testimony contradicting that
because he, you know, in the past has signed documents that he
believed were valid in stating that he's not.
The second thing is, under -- and it's a little off point, but I think
it provides guidance. In the ordinance, the Collier County Ordinance,
section 4.1.22, it says that one of the areas of violation is falsely
misrepresenting any material fact to another person with the intent or
for the purpose of engaging in the contracting business, providing
materials or services or soliciting business for an employee -- for an
employer as a contractor or as an employee regardless of any financial
consideration.
So there's also the requirement that there be an intent to mislead
the public essentially. So you've got -- willful, deliberate, and with
intent are really the tests, and I think you have to weigh the testimony,
because the only evidence that you have in front of you to judge this
on is the testimony of the two parties and this document that you have.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I -- or go ahead.
MR. JOSLIN: Can I just add one other thing to -- as far as the
ordinance goes, there's one other heading here under 1.5.1. It clearly
states that all contractors under the provisions of this ordinance shall
be required to firmly affix/display the qualifier's certificate of
competency number and the doing-business-as number and/or all
advertising mediums used by the contractor, including but not limited
to, contracts, brochures, business cards, vehicles used in their trade or
business, and it goes on to say the minimum height of each letter, how
tall it should be; therefore, all your real business name should have
been on your trucks as the business that you are licensed to do.
And if you are advertising or if you are promoting sprinkler
work, doesn't mean that you do it, but you still are out there promoting
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May 16, 2007
that someone could call you and ask you if you do sprinkler work.
MR. TOMPKINS: And I would --
MR. JOSLIN: Whether you say yes or no is irrelevant.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. And the legalese that you just
gave us, I don't agree with, because it would be like, I open my
company, Dickson Roofing and Carpentry or whatever. I have no
intent to ever do carpentry. I don't willfully intend to deceive people
or mislead them. I don't see any way around this. Sprinklers has to
come off those trucks.
MR. JOSLIN: Yes. And brochures and letterheads and
everything.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Checks we don't care about. We don't
ever see checks. But I mean, the law is the law, and whether it was a
mistake 20 years ago -- and it's not a terrific financial burden. And just
like everyone knows your ex-partner and they know you; it's not going
to -- it's not going to cause you undue harm.
But you can also see the problem that we would have if we let
this one go. Well, we'd just open up pandora's box. Put anything you
want on your trucks. I mean -- and I'll sign a letter that I won't ever do
this. It just doesn't meet the test of common sense.
MR. TOMPKINS: I wished I would have been told that back
when I started my business, you know, that's all.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, back when you started your
business, you intended to have sprinklers so that's why you did it, and
that was your intent. Alan just wasn't licensed yet, which you
answered for Mr. Neale the fact that there was a license back then, so
we're not talking a grandfather issue.
But when it didn't happen, you should have taken sprinklers off
the truck. Your intent was originally to do it, and it just kind of drug
on for a year. And the county -- this department's a whole lot different
than it used to be -- that would let things ride. I mean, they catch
every little thing. We've never had people calling on references and
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May 16, 2007
experience affidavits either, and we've had people that have been
signing their own and they're surprised they get caught. They're
catching everything, and I can't fault them for it. I mean -- and it's not
going to hurt you.
MR. TOMPKINS: Shouldn't I at least be given some sort of a
warning so I'm aware of the fact that you guys are seeing this in a
different way and that I should change this and be given a certain
amount of time to start changing my name and going through the
process instead of just being fined for something I felt that I'm
innocent of because of the fact that I never did engage in anything to
do with sprinklers?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, yeah, the fine was -- you know,
but that's a warning.
MR. BLUM: Maybe we can give him 30 days to comply or
something. Will that help?
MR. GUITE': I don't think he willfully did what he did.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How do you feel on that, Mr.
Ossorio?
MR. BLUM: Plus changing the letters and getting the sign in
compliance, we give him some time? It would be a little bit of a
financial burden.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Tompkins at his own admission said he
only has one vehicle.
I just have a hard time -- just because he tells you one thing, it
does not mean that he's telling you the whole truth. And I'm not
saying here Mr. Tompkins is lying to the board.
But if you are going to present evidence -- and he clearly states in
his letter to you that he has shirts, hats, signs, trailers, you know,
notifying electrical, telephone numbers. You know, for the very first
thing, I looked on the website. I don't know ifhe's been here 20 years.
How am I supposed to know? I know for a fact that the occupational
license doesn't have affidavits that you won't do irrigation. They don't
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May 16, 2007
have that and I've never seen one. So let's produce it. Just because he
says it doesn't mean it's true.
MR. TOMPKINS: I can produce--
MR. OSSORIO: Well, where is it?
MR. TOMPKINS: I didn't know I had to bring it today.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, you wrote it and you submitted to the
board. That's your testimony.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But it doesn't even--
MR. TOMPKINS: Well, I guess I'm at you guys's mercy then.
I'm innocent and it's up to you guys to decide what you want to do. So
I can't sit here and fight with Mike over this issue. I've stated the way
I feel. And you know, I'd like to be at least given the chance to
change these things without being fined for something I had no idea
that I was committing, so -- but it's up to you guys to make a decision.
MR. BLUM: I'd like to make a motion.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. BLUM: I'd like to make a motion to deny this gentleman's
application, number one, because I do believe it was written correctly
and I do believe it should stand.
I have a lot of sympathy for anybody that's been operating under
a -- an idea for 20 some odd years, and I can understand his chagrin, I
really can. I'd like to allow him a reasonable amount of time to effect
the changes without getting any more fines or be in any way
penalized; 30 or 60 days I would have no problem. I will say 60 days
in my motion, allow him 60 days to effect changes so that he won't be
additionally fined or inconvenienced.
MR. JOSLIN: But the fine stands?
MR. BLUM: But the fine would have to stand. I'm afraid it is
accurate, although I understand his -- totally understand where he's
coming from, but it is right. The fine is right. So, yes, enforce the
fine, 60 days to come into full compliance.
MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion.
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed?
MR. HERRIMAN: Opposed, Herriman.
MR. GUITE': Opposed.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two opposed. It is a -- you've got the
two opposed? So it's 3-2 vote.
And I understand your dilemma, but I've also got to enforce
what's, you know, correct up here as well.
MR. TOMPKINS: All right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you've got 60 days to do it.
MR. TOMPKINS: How do I go about paying the fine? Right
now or --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, no. Just go over -- I don't know
how those are done.
MR. WEHRER: Come down to the county and come into
contractor licensing and see one of the young ladies there, and they'll
MR. TOMPKINS: Okay. How long do I have to pay the fine at
this point?
MR. WEHRER: Well, normally it was a 10-day period. If they
want to extend it, I have no problem with that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's not going to increase.
MR. WEHRER: No.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah.
MR. TOMPKINS: Ten days from this date then?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah.
MR. TOMPKINS: Okay.
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May 16, 2007
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Neale, you want me to read an order?
MR. NEALE: If you would, please.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Collier County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, is the petitioner, versus Steve
Tompkins, d/b/a Gulfshore Lawn and Sprinkler Company, citation
number 4392, final order on citation --
MR. NEALE: Mr. Dickson?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. NEALE: I've actually--
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've got another one?
MR. NEALE: Well, I've got an order that we've used in the past.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's not that one? I always like to play
with your computer, check where you've been.
MR. NEALE: Don't want to do that.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Final order on citation. This cause
came on for public hearing before the board on April 20, 2005,
pursuant -- whoops -- how about May 15 -- 16th, pursuant to the
provisions of Collier County Ordinance 90-105 as amended, in section
489.127 Florida Statutes, regarding citations issued for violations of
section 489.127.1 and/or 489.132.1 -- did you get all that -- Florida
Statutes as adopted by Collier County, Florida, the citation being
properly in form and substance, and all necessary notices have been
issued to the respondent as required by Collier County Ordinance and
Florida Statutes.
The board, having heard testimony under oath, received evidence
and heard arguments with respect to the appropriate relevant matters
as provided in Collier County Ordinance 90-105, as amended, and in
sections 162 -- you took whatever it was. You went too far. It's not
going back down. There we go -- 162.0322, 162.07 -- yours is really
detailed -- and 162.08, Florida Statutes.
The board finds as follows: Findings of the respe -- of fact. The
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May 16, 2007
respondent is the holder of a valid certificate of competency issued by
Collier County.
MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry, sir, but he's not.
MR. NEALE: No, he's not.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, he's not?
MR. BLUM: No.
MR. NEALE: But he has an occupational license which is valid
for --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, okay. He's not --
MR. OSSORIO: I have no idea ifhe has that either.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I thought -- he doesn't have an
occupational license?
MR. BARTOE: We're not sure.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. That will be next. Respondent
is not the holder of a valid certificate of competency issued by Collier
County.
The respondent has -- number two, the respondent has requested
an administrative hearing before the board, which did happen.
Number three, the violation is charged and the citation does exist.
Number four, the violation charged in the citation has not been cured
prior to the appearance of the respondent before the board.
And number five, the citation is valid.
The respondent has requested an administrative hearing -- did
request an administrative hearing in a timely manner.
Two, the respondent is in violation of Collier County Ordinance
90-105, as amended, and as charged in citation number 4392, to wit:
Advertising -- to wit: Advertising without a Collier County license.
Order of the board: Determining the amount of administrative
penalty be imposed. It was considered the gravity of the violation.
Actions taken by the violation: Correct the violation.
Any previous violations committed by the violator and on
consideration of these factors and the relevant evidence, the board
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May 16, 2007
hereby orders that the citation will be imposed of $300; and number
two, that the -- Mr. Tompkins does have 60 days to amend any
paperwork, truck advertising, or the like, to remove the name
sprinklers from all business transactions; number three, by a vote of
5-3 --
MR. NEALE: Or 3-2.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- or 3-2, I'm sorry. By a vote of 3-2,
that was the order of the board. Enough, don't you agree?
MR. NEALE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Boy, you are long-winded in those
things.
MR. BLUM: Wow.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Next time --
MR. BLUM: He gets paid by the word.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Next time let me read mine.
MR. BLUM: You get paid by the word, Mr. Neale, right?
MR. NEALE: Of course.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mine is really short.
Please keep your file next month for the county versus John Allison.
Bring that with you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you waiting for someone?
MR. BROWN: Yes, sir. I'm here for the Rolsafe case.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who?
MR. BROWN: Rolsafe--
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you know anything about -- you're
not on our --
MR. BROWN: It's for an administrative complaint.
MR. OSSORIO: Are you Nicky Brown?
MR. BROWN: Yes.
MR. OSSORIO: Your case was closed and you were supposed
to be notified in writing.
MR. BROWN: Really?
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May 16, 2007
MR. OSSORIO: Yes. We've talked to the company and -- Rick
Collins, I believe?
MR. BROWN: Yeah. He's the current owner.
MR. OSSORIO: And Rick Collins has been actually closing out
building permits.
MR. BROWN: Right, I'm aware of that.
MR. OSSORIO: So we're not going to take you in front of the
board if you are complying with what we ordered you to do in the first
place. You were supposed to be notified in writing.
MR. BROWN: Super. That's great news. Thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you have a good time?
MR. BROWN: What's that?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you have a good time today?
MR. BROWN: Yes, I enjoyed it, thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Nice to have you. I'm sorry. I
thought you were with the last individual that was here, so --
MR. BROWN: That's great news. Thanks again.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you.
Any other business to come before this board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Next meeting is when, June?
MR. BARTOE: 20th.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 20th. Anybody know they're not
going to be here?
(No response.)
MR. BLUM: When you're done with that, there's something I
want to ask.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Go ahead.
MR. BLUM: Are we going to do any -- previous years we've
had a bit of a summer hiatus. Do we have any thoughts about that?
MR. JOSLIN: Summer who?
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May 16, 2007
MR. BLUM: Hiatus?
MR. JOSLIN: Oh. Elaborate. What do you want?
MR. BLUM: I'm just asking. It would be nice not to come for
July or in August and we can plan some time off, but if that's not
appropriate -- I'm just bringing it -- I'm just running it by everybody,
see how anybody feels.
MR. HERRIMAN: With or without pay?
MR. BLUM: We'd get the commensurate pay we always get.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Paid vacation.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I'll try to talk to our staff, and
maybe I'll talk to the county attorney and see what's appropriate.
There is -- we are mandated by state law to meet, you know, certain
times of the year, but I think we --
MR. BARTOE: Four times.
MR. OSSORIO: Four times.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, that's all.
MR. OSSORIO: And I think we're going to bypass that. So I
think maybe in August or sometime, but I think we do have something
in July.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. And I don't ever remember
taking time off in the summer.
MR. JOSLIN: No.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In fact, if anything, with storms, it
becomes busier.
MR. BLUM: Well, then we can always have the emergency
meeting, which we've done. But I just thought I'd mention it, see if
you're interested.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're set up for the emergency
meetings so we don't have to have them again, don't (sic) we? Didn't
we give you that authority already, Mr. Neale?
MR. NEALE: No, it still would -- the board would still have to
meet again because it only extends through the period of the state of
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May 16, 2007
emergency as declared. So if there was another state of emergency
declared, the board would have to meet again to provide for the
emergency licenses.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But am I not correct, we had this
discussion?
MR. OSSORIO: We had that discussion, but it did -- we did not
proceed. The building director and myself talked about it, and --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that -- because specifically we
had the discussion to where we would authorize the building director
to take the same action we took in Hurricane Wilma under the same
parameters without calling an emergency meeting of this board.
MR. BLUM: That was my understanding.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I thought that was a done deal.
MR. OSSORIO: I'll look through the minutes and we'll get back
to you in June. That's all I can tell you. I have to read up the code
under the emergency section. I know that we did make a little bit of
changes, but I don't think it actually passed or we actually put it in the
package, so I'll get back to you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because before we had a two-day
wait and your lobby was full.
MR. OSSORIO: I remember.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that's what we were trying to
avoid. Let's -- would you put that on next month's agenda so that we
make sure that's taken care of? Okay.
MR. OSSORIO: Consider it done.
MR. JOSLIN: One last comment. Thank you very much, staff,
for taking off -- all of the social security numbers off of the packets.
MR. BARTOE: That's so you can keep your packets.
MR. JOSLIN: So we don't have to worry about somebody
saying that we stole their identity.
MR. GUITE': We can put them in the blue file?
MR. OSSORIO: Well, we do have a new standing policy. We
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May 16, 2007
used to take social security numbers in our office, and we're just
taking the last four. Weare being more conscious. I think there is a
policy out there through the County Attorney's Office, if social
security numbers are not really needed, then we don't need to be the
record keeper of it. I mean, some things we're going to have to, but
we're going to -- we are cracking down on the social securities, and
we'll take that seriously.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion?
MR. GUITE': Motion to adjourn.
MR. BLUM: I move that we -- second.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're done. Thank you guys. Good
to have you.
*******
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:40 a.m.
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
LES DICKSON, Chairman
These minutes approved by the Board on
or as corrected
, as presented
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