CEB Minutes 04/26/2007 R
April 26, 2007
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida April 26, 2007
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION at the
Community Development and Environmental Services Bldg, Room
609/610,2800 North Horseshoe Drive, Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRPERSON: Sheri Barnett
Larry Dean
Lionel L'Esperance
Kenneth Kelly
Richard Kraenbring (Absent)
Gerald Lefebvre
Charles Martin
Jerry Morgan
George Ponte
ALSO PRESENT:
Jean Rawson, Attorney for the Board
Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director
Jeffrey Klatzkow, Assistant County Attorney
Bendisa Marku, Operations Coordinator
Page 1
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
AGENDA
Date: April 26, 2007, at 9:00 a.m.
Location: Collier County Government Center, Third Floor, 3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, Florida
Horseshoe drive, Naples, FI. 34104
NOTICE: THE RESPONDENT MAYBE LIMITlED TO TWENTY (20) MINUTES FOR CASE
PRESENTATION UNLESS ADDITIONAL TIME IS GRANTED BY THE BOARD. PERSONS
WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM WILL RECEIVE UP TO FIVE (5) MINUTES
UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ALL PARTIES PARTICIPATING IN THE PUBLIC HEARING ARE ASKED TO OBSERVE
ROBERTS RULES OF ODER AND SPEAK ONE AT A TIME SO THAT THE COURT REPORTER
CAN RECORD ALL STATEMENTS BEING MADE.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO
ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD
INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY ANI> EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
NEITHER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD SHALL BE
RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THIS RECORD.
1. ROLL CALL
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 22,2007
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. MOTIONS
Motion to Continue
I. BCC vs. Donald and Jo Coleman
2. BCC vs. TW Management of Naples, Inc A/KIA Naples Investments. INC
CEB 2007-30
CEB 2007-36
B. STIPULATIONS
C. HEARINGS
I. BeC vs. Frank Fernandez
2. BeC Ys. Jobani A. Gonzales
3. BCC ys. Pipers Crossing. LLC
4. BeC YS. Domenic P. Tosto and Joanne M. Tosto
5. BeC ys. Paul Skipper a/k/a Paul Skipper Trustee
6. BCC YS. MMB of Southwest Florida LLC and Bonita Media Enterprises LLC
7. BeC YS. Roilan Perez
CEB 2007-22
eEB 2007-26
eEll 2007-28
CEB 2007-32
CEll 2007-33
CEll 2007-35
CEll 2007-37
5. OLD BUSINESS
A. Request for Reduction of Fines/Liens
I. BCC ys. Daisy Arrazeaeta
2. BCC YS. Calexieo Ine
CEB 2006-15
CEB 2006-47
B. Request for Imposition of Fines/Liens
I. BCe Ys. Dalila Grimaldo
2. BCC YS. Rober! and Cristina Ferris
3. BCC YS. Marlene Santilli
CEB 2006-37
CEB 2007-07
CEB 2007-12
6. NEW BUSINESS-
7. REPORTS-
8. COMMENTS-
9. NEXT MEETING DATE - May 24, 2007
10. ADJOURN
April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Good morning, everybody. I'd
like to call this meeting of the Code Enforcement Board of Collier
County to order.
Notice, the respondent may be limited to 20 minutes for case
presentation, unless additional time is granted by the board. Persons
wishing to speak on any agenda item will receive up to five minutes,
unless the time is adjusted by the chairman.
All parties participating in the public hearing are asked to
observe Roberts rules of order and speak one at a time so that the court
reporter can record all statements being made.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and therefore may
need for ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made,
which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which is the
appeal is to be based.
Neither Collier County nor the Code Enforcement Board shall be
responsible for providing this record.
May I have the roll call, please.
MS. MARKU: George Ponte?
MR. PONTE: Here.
MS. MARKU: Gerald Lefebvre?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Here.
MS. MARKU: Larry Dean?
MR. DEAN: Here.
MS. MARKU: Sheri Barnett?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Present.
MS. MARKU: Jerry Morgan?
MR. MORGAN: Here.
MS. MARKU: Richard Kraenbring?
MS. ARNOLD: Let the record show that Mr. Kraenbring was
here but had a conflict and he had to leave. So it's an excused
absence.
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April 26, 2007
MS. MARKU: Kenneth Kelly?
MR. KELL Y: Here.
MS. MARKU: Charles Martin?
MR. MARTIN: Here.
MS. MARKU: Lionel L'Esperance?
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Here.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: With the attendance, should we
have one of the alternates act as a voting member? So I believe Mr.
Martin, you'll have full voting rights.
Okay, approval of the agenda.
MS. ARNOLD: For the record, Michelle Arnold, Code
Enforcement Director.
I do have some changes to the agenda. Item number 4-C- 7 needs
to be added under request for continuance.
And we have several stipulations. Item 4-C-2, there's been a
stipulation. 4-C-3. 4-C-6. And so those items will be heard first,
prior to the other hearings.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So 4-C-4 has been moved for
continuance? And 2,3 and 6 are to be stipulated, correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Correct.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, thank you.
MS. ARNOLD: 4-C-7 is to be moved to continuance. So we've
got three items on the continuance list: We've got Board of County
Commissioners versus Donald and Joe Coleman, Board of County
Commissioners versus TW Management of Naples, and then Board of
County Commissioners versus MMB of Southwest Florida.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. With those changes, may
I hear a motion to approve the agenda?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion to approve.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Approval of the minutes for
March 22nd.
Do we have any corrections? If not, I'll entertain a motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion to approve.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
MR. DEAN: Abstain.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I guess we'll move to motions to
continue.
First one being?
MS. ARNOLD: The Colemans. And you should have received a
letter from Mrs. Coleman, I believe, requesting a continuance. She
had a conflict with this particular meeting.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do we have an investigator, or --
MS. ARNOLD: Do you want to speak to this?
Do you have the letter dated April 11 th, 20017
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yes, I was just perusing it real
quickly.
MS. ARNOLD: And the county has no objections to that
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April 26, 2007
continuance.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. I guess I'll close it to
public input then and opinions from the board. Anybody want to
entertain a motion?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion to move it to the next
meeting.
MR. DEAN: Second.
MS. ARNOLD: The request is to move it to June, I believe.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: June?
MS. ARNOLD: June, 2007.
MR. DEAN: I withdraw my second.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion to approve to the June
meeting.
MR. KELLY: I'll second it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, we have a motion and a
second. All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. RAWSON: What's the date of the June meeting?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, we're going to talk about that. We
actually have it set right now for the 22nd, but we're -- I have a
conflict and so does Bendisa, and we're trying to see if we can move it
to the 18th.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. The next one is BCC
versus TW A Management of Naples.
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April 26, 2007
MS. ARNOLD: That's correct.
You also should have received a letter reflecting that request for
continuance.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Give me a minute. I didn't get
these.
Okay. Does the county have any objections?
MS. ARNOLD: No, no, we don't.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I'm not sure what time they're looking for to
show up in front of the board, being that they're going to be away, if
I'm not mistaken, next meeting and then away for the summer.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. SNOW: For the record, Investigator Kitchell Snow.
They had an illness in the family. They had to go out of town.
They will be back May 2nd. And I've had dialogue with them, so
we're going to get this resolved.
The violation has abated. All that we need to do is pay
operational cost, so we'll get everything squared away. They just
didn't know -- they were uncomfortable; they wanted to be here.
MR. LEFEBVRE: So continuing to the next meeting you'll
probably have it resolved by then?
MR. SNOW: Yes, sir.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay.
MR. PONTE: I'll make a motion to continue.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
MR. SNOW: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Then BCC versus MMB of
Southwest Florida, LLC and Bonita Media Enterprises.
MS. ARNOLD: You received a letter, and the counsel for MMB
is present, so they can speak to their request.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
MR. INNUNZIATA: Good morning. My name is Richard
Innunziata (phonetic). I'm an attorney with the law firm of Brennan,
Manna and Diamond on behalf of MMB of Southwest Florida, LLC
and Bonita Media Enterprises, LLC.
Weare requesting a continuance of this hearing until -- well, the
hearing is scheduled today until -- either the next available hearing
before the board or as soon as reasonable thereafter. Because we
received our notice of this hearing on exactly 10 days before this
meeting. We did not have -- according to the notice of the hearing
itself, it provides that we have to give and prepare a response to the
alleged violation at least 10 days and prepare our packets and
information and witnesses, et cetera. And we did not have sufficient
time to do so.
A letter was sent to you by my partner, Scott Duvall on April
17th. And I know for a fact that we have -- we did not -- effectively
outlining the reason for this continuance. And it's in our packets
marked as Exhibit F. Effectively asking again -- you know, objecting
to the notice because effectively to do so in our opinion would be to --
we want to have at least a meaningful opportunity to be heard and
appropriate notice before the -- before any hearing before the board.
So we respectfully request for a continuance to the next -- again, either
the next available hearing or soon thereafter as reasonably possible.
And also, in addition, to whatever extent the board feels it's able
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April 26, 2007
to do so, we would request that we have additional time, a little more
than 20 minutes, if possible, to present our position with regard to n if,
you know, ifthere is another hearing.
My understanding also is there is no objection, this is unopposed
by both -- by the director.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I just have a question. This isn't
your complete packet then?
MR. INNUNZIATA: I'm sorry?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: This is -- the packet that you
were unable to complete, it's not complete?
MR. INNUNZIA T A: In the time line that we had, based on the
notice provided, we pieced together what we could. It's as complete
as it can be in the notice -- in the time lane that -- in the time we were
given in relation to the notice given, yeah, that's what we have.
MR. KLATZKOW: Jeff Klatzkow for the county.
Couple of issues; one, we don't object to a continuance. In fact,
we join in with the request on the condition that they waive any
further notice.
MS. ARNOLD: Our next meeting is May 24th.
MR. INNUNZIA T A: I have no objection to attending the
meeting on the next available -- I would ask that notice be sent, but
I'm fully aware that that would be the next hearing date within which
we have to attend.
MR. KLATZKOW: I'm just asking that you waive notice.
MR. INNUNZIA T A: You're asking to waive notice? I have no
problem with that.
MR. KLATZKOW: Then we have no objection. In fact, we join
and request that continuance be granted.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. I look to the board.
MR. PONTE: For personal reasons, I will vote too that the
request be granted, because I received this 36-page document 10
minutes before sitting down here. And I can't handle that. Even
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April 26, 2007
though I'm a speed reader I can't handle it. So yes, let's continue it.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, we'll see you next month.
MR. INNUNZIA T A: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: If I'm correct, that closes the
motion to continue. So we should move into our stipulations. The
first one being Jobani A. Gonzales, correct?
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. BALDWIN: For the record, Investigator Baldwin, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
This is an agreement we stipulated to. Board of County
Commissioners and versus Jobani A. Gonzales and Elizabeth Diaz.
The violation is of Section 2.02.03 of Ordinance 2004-41; Collier
County Land Development Code, as amended, and described as
prohibited uses. Specifically for storage of vehicles on Estates zoned
property. And also possible repairing of vehicles on Estates zoned
property.
We agreed that the respondent shall pay operational costs in the
amount of $498.35 that accrued in the prosecution of this case.
Also, the respondent will cease and desist using the property or
any other estates and residentially zoned property for a storage lot and
to repair vehicles immediately. Owner must use the Estates zoned
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April 26, 2007
property only as allowed under the Collier County Land Development
Code.
Owner shall comply by removing all stored vehicles and/or
equipment by April 30th, 2007, or a fine of $150 per day will be
imposed until the violation has been abated.
Owner must allow code enforcement investigator on the property
to validate compliance.
And number three, the respondent must notify code enforcement
that the violation has been abated and request the investigator to come
out to the property to perform a site inspection.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is Mr. Gonzalez present, or has
he left?
MR. BALDWIN: Mrs. Diaz was here on behalf of Jobani
Gonzalez and herself. She has left. She signed the agreement,
witnessed by Lieutenant Scott Stamos (phonetic), and she needed to
go to work.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Any questions from the
board?
MR. MORGAN: Has the place been cleaned up?
MR. BALDWIN: The vehicles have been removed on the 30th.
Monday I will go out there to see. So far the violation she states has
been abated.
MR. MORGAN: Okay, but you're going to make an inspection
on Monday, right?
MR. BALDWIN: Yes.
MR. MORGAN: Okay.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any other questions from the
board?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: If not, I'll entertain a motion.
MR. PONTE: I'll make a motion to accept the stipulation as
read.
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April 26, 2007
MR. MORGAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
MR. BALDWIN: Thank you.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Michelle, is there some way for this to be
displayed on our screens? Is there a little switch or something that can
be --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is yours not working?
MS. ARNOLD: I'll come up and assist you.
MR. KELL Y: The second button down.
MR. DEAN: The second button down.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: On this right here?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The next stipulated agreement is
Board of County Commissioners versus Pipers Crossing, LLC.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
MR. SNOW: For the record, Investigator Kitchell Snow.
This is a stipulation agreement reached between Pipers Crossing
LLC and the Board of County Commissioners.
The violations of this section are 10.02.06(B) (2) (a).
1O.02.06(B) (2) (d) (ix), and described in the Violation of Ordinance
00-41. And 16 (2) (j) of Ordinance 2004-58, sign without a permit.
The agreement has been reached. Pay operational cost in the
amount of $410.75 incurred in the prosecution of the case. Abate all
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April 26, 2007
violations by: Submit a complete and valid sign permit within 14 days
of this hearing or a fine of $150 a day will be imposed until sign
submittal process is complete. Upon issuance of a valid sign permit,
all inspections through certificate of C.O., or certificate of completion,
must be completed within 60 days of the issuance of said permit, or a
fine of $150 a day will be imposed.
The respondent must notify the code enforcement investigator
when the violation's been abated in order to conduct a final
confirmation of abatement.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can you put that up on the
monitor for us, please.
Yes, sir? You are?
MR. LAPIDUS: Mike Lapidus. I represent Crifasi Real Estate.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Michael, what capacity do you
have the right to represent the company?
MR. LAPIDUS: As far as getting the ordinance changed and the
permitting uses.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: What is your relationship to --
MR. LAPIDUS: Consulting.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Do you agree with this?
MR. LAPIDUS: Yes, I do.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
Any other questions from the board?
MR. PONTE: I just have one clarification. As a consultant, do
you have legal authority to agree to this?
MR. LAPIDUS: No, I do not.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Jean?
MS. RAWSON: Are you here today as his authorized
representative to enter into a stipulated agreement for Pipers Crossing
LLC?
MR. LAPIDUS: I do. Yes, I do.
MR. PONTE: Thank you.
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April 26, 2007
MR. LAPIDUS: You're welcome.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Close it to the floor and
open it up to the board. Discussion? Motion?
MR. PONTE: I make a motion to accept the stipulation as read.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
MR. LAPIDUS: Thank you.
MR. SNOW: Thank you very much.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is the next one Tosto?
MS. ARNOLD: No, it's six.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Because I have a stipulated
agreement.
MS. ARNOLD: Oh, yeah, it is five.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The next case we have is Board
of County Commissioners versus Domenic P. Tosto and Joanne Tosto.
I hope I said that correctly.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
MR. MAZZONE: For the record, my name is Dennis Mazzone,
Collier County Code Enforcement Investigator.
Code Enforcement Board Case No. 2007-32, Collier County
Board of County Commissioners versus Domenic P. Tosto, also
known as Domenic Tosto, and Joanne M. Tosto, trustee of the family
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April 26, 2007
living trust.
This case addresses violations of Collier County's housing and
property maintenance Ordinance No. 2004-58, Section 6, Paragraph
12. Section 11, Section 12, Section 15, and Section 16.
And Collier County's litter Ordinance No. 2005-44, Section 7,
Section 8, and is described as no progress and a continuation of
neglected maintenance and unsafe conditions relative to a
storm-damaged two-story concrete and wood framed multi-domed
shaped residential structure, located on Cape Romano Island.
All same premises left unattended and a potential hazard.
Also, litter and abandoned property consisting of but not limited
to fire-damaged, weather-damaged structure elements, plumbing
installations, construction materials, metal, plastic and paper items left
uncontained and unattended throughout the entire area in question.
The Respondent, Domenic Tosto, entered into a stipulated
agreement with Collier County Code Enforcement on April 9th, 2007.
And the terms of the agreement are as follows:
Pay all operational costs in the amount of $1 ,295 .34 incurred in
the prosecution of this case. And to abate all violations by:
Respondents must apply for a Collier County demolition permit for
the removal of all elements attributing to unsafe and unattended
environmentally harmful conditions existing on the -- and this is an
acronym, A-ACSC/ST zoned property in question. That acronym
stands for area of critical state concern, special treatment, for the
record. And all seaward affected property by May 28th, 2007, or a
fine of $250 per day will be imposed each day the violation continues.
2-A of the stipulation is respondents must obtain a complete and
sufficient Collier County demolition permit for the removal of all
elements attributing to the unsafe and unattended environmentally
harmful conditions in question by June 27th, 2007 or a fine of $250
per day will be imposed each day the violation continues.
Paragraph 2-B, respondents must execute said demolition permit
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April 26, 2007
by receiving all required inspections through issuance of a certificate
of completion for the removal of all unsafe, unattended
environmentally harmful conditions and all resulting debris to an
approved site for final disposal, and provide Collier County Code
Enforcement with copies of receipts for all same disposal by October
28th, 2007 or a fine of $250 per day will be imposed each day the
violation continues.
Paragraph 2-C, respondents must also remove all
weather-damaged and wind-driven structural elements, construction
materials and other foreign materials originating from the wood frame
stilt residence previously owned by a Mr. John Kotula -- and that is
spelled K-O-T-U-L-A -- and currently located throughout adjacent
neighboring lots to an approved site for final disposal. Or arrange to
remove all same by other lawful means so as to comply with all
Collier County housing, maintenance, litter and land development
requirements by October 28th, 2007, or a fine of $250 a day will be
imposed each day the violation continues.
Respondent's remedial efforts must comply with all Collier
County environmental requirements.
The paragraph 2-C of the stipulated agreement, I visited the
location in question April 10th with Mr. Tosto and his son, and the site
visit confirmed that the respondents have already complied with
paragraph 2-C. And I have a photo, if you wish to see that.
MR. MORGAN: Yes.
MR. MAZZONE: Would that please the board?
MR. MORGAN: Yes.
MR. MAZZONE: These -- this would be a before photo, what
we had seen at this site. These items are a result of wind-driven debris
that probably came from the structure through several storms, or could
have been washed up, in fact, some of it.
This being an island and a popular place to visit, other people
have contributed to the litter and debris there on these premises.
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April 26, 2007
I have to say that the Tostos are doing a good job of maintaining
the island as far as cleaning it and removing the litter.
This next photo shows some of the construction litter that was
found on the site at our first visit.
And these photos show as to why it was culled out as being
unsafe, or at least some of the elements being damaged to a very
serious extent.
This is from the ground looking up through what was a wooden
floor into one of the dome-shaped structural elements, part of the --
which was part of the residence at one time.
These next photos are a set of photos of the same areas. And you
can see that there has been a lot of cooperation here as far as cleanup.
These are the same locations I initially looked at. And these
were completely occupied with litter and debris.
It has since been removed. Or as you'll see in this next photo,
there is some lumber now properly secured out of the wind -- out of
the force of the wind so it won't be strewn throughout the island.
They've cleaned it up very well.
This next photo might appear to be litter, but it's in fact usable
materials. Something that could be utilized in further development or
n by the owners of the property, if they wish to do so. If not, they
could arrange for its removal.
To continue, those photos are the result of my visit -- my last
visit to the island.
The last paragraph is that n of our stipulated agreement, is that
the respondents must notify Collier County Code Enforcement to
schedule a re-inspection of all premises in question within 24 hours
after abatement. And as I had indicated, the Tostos had signed the
stipulated agreement and have been cooperating.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I've got a question for you, but
I'll wait in just a minute.
Mr. Tosto, do you understand this agreement?
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April 26, 2007
MR. TOSTO: Yes, I do.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And you do agree with it?
MR. TOSTO: Absolutely.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: My question for you, and maybe
because I'm dense, but what's the difference between paragraph 2-A
and 2-B?
MR. MAZZONE: 2-A, respondents must obtain a complete and
sufficient Collier County demolition permit. Obtain the complete and
sufficient permit and remove all the elements attributing.
Paragraph B, respondent must execute --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It says obtain.
MR. MAZZONE: Paragraph 2-B? Must execute.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, okay. I'm sorry, I'm kind
of losing it.
MR. MAZZONE: The time frame's actually -- it's not going to
be an easy task for the Tostos to obtain a permit.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is there anything in here that if
they decided not to tear it down, is there any way to salvage any of
this that they could reconstruct it? Because you were saying they
could reuse some of the --
MR. MAZZONE: Certainly. They're working on that plan right
now as we speak. They're very busy with -- they've already contacted,
from what -- I believe Mr. Tosto can speak at this better than I can, but
it's my belief that they've already contacted Mr. Hammond, who wrote
the initial report. They wish to use some of these structural elements to
reconstruct. And they have contacted their engineers to make sure
that this will work for them. And they have to also contact the state to
get their approval for that.
MR. MORGAN: The reinforced columns below this second
level, they're going to remain, right?
MR. MAZZONE: This is something that's better addressed by
Mr. Tosto.
Page 17
April 26, 2007
MR. MORGAN: They're going to construct from there on up.
MR. MAZZONE: Correct, sir.
MR. MORGAN: And then they have to get a new permit for the
addition?
MR. MAZZONE: Yes, sir. Everything would have to be
permitted, not only by Collier County but get state approval.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is that correct, Mr. --
MR. TOSTO: No, actually, that's what was wrong with the
structure. The columns and the footers failed. So we're going to --
what we are going to propose to do is to drive new columns around the
perimeter of the structure and raise the structure according to code, to
the new code limitations. Because the structures are actually four
levels below the new code, which I believe is 15 feet. We're going to
raise the structures, all five of them, to that elevation is what we're
going to propose to do anyway.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The only concern I have about
this is this also is demolition, demolition, demolition. It doesn't say
anything about potential for reconstruction.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, he just indicated he's going to raze his
structure, meaning they're going to take it down. So they have to get a
separate permit.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I thought you meant that he was
going to raise it to a different height.
MR. TOSTO: Yeah. What they want us to do -- see, we were
notified by the state they want us to get rid of the structure and we
don't want to get rid of the structure. We want to rebuild the structure
is what we're trying to do here.
So we're trying to comply with Collier County in any way we
can at the time -- while we're going through our permit process with
the state, the environmental committees and with you, you know, is
what we're trying to do. We want to make it safe so nobody's going to
get hurt out there and it's not a hazard to the beach or to anything else,
Page 18
April 26, 2007
turtles included. So that we can keep it safe until we go through the
permit process. And if the end they say no, then we'll have to remove
it.
MS. ARNOLD: But Mr. Tosto, did you indicate that the
structural components failed so you're going to have to put new --
MR. TOSTO: No, just the footers failed. The structure itself is
in fine shape, which we will have -- I will have an engineer's
statement documenting that. And I will have also a small detailed
plan and design of what we intend to do. That should be here. I
thought it would be here by now, but it hasn't arrived yet. Before the
end of the meeting, I will have that here.
MR. MAZZONE: May I just say also that the case came into us
as an unsafe structure. And the report read in such a way that we
addressed the verbiage in the report that stated it was irrepairable. So
we weren't going for obtain a permit to fix it because the terms of the
report read in the opposite of that. But it appears as though the Tostos
have contacted their engineers and its way beyond my scope of
expertise. But part of the structure at least can be salvaged and
utilized in new construction.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That's my concern. Because this
stipulated agreement strictly says demolition. It does not give them
any leeway to reconstruct anything. So we either need to discuss
amongst the board or let you guys go back to the drawing board.
MR. MAZZONE: We gave them the stipulated time frame in
which to obtain these permits and execute them. Now, within that
same time frame they can also -- they could -- there will be a
demolition involved to a certain extent as to -- that will have to take
place before they rebuild anything. So they'll have to execute that part
of the stipulation.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I don't know if anybody else has
any comments.
MR. MORGAN: The way I look at it, the stipulation covers the
Page 19
April 26, 2007
cleanup of all the debris and the part ofthe structure that's not usable.
MR. MAZZONE: That's correct, sir.
MR. MORGAN: Okay, he has to get a new building permit with
all the structure calculations for the part that he's going to rebuild.
That comes under a new building permit.
MR. MAZZONE: Correct. Or remove that also.
MR. MORGAN: Right. And that's going to be issued by the
county. And he has to have an architect design and a structural
engineer to certify that what he's planning to do structurally is sound.
And he's going to raise the elevation, which comes under the building
permit.
MR. MAZZONE: Correct.
MR. MORGAN: That's the way I look at it. There's two different
elements: One, the stipulated agreement covers the cleanup and
demolition of the existing structure that can't be used.
MR. MAZZONE: And that's what we designed it to do.
MR. MORGAN: The new building permit will cover all the
improvements.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. And they would not be considered -- if
they obtain a permit to rebuild portions of that, then that would not be
part of what we're bringing to you, because we're bringing to you a
violation of unsafe structure. So that portion of the structure that is
not permissible would be what we would be considering under this.
MR. MORGAN: That's correct.
MR. PONTE: I have a question for the county.
Given the fact that this is an attractive hazard and an unsafe
structure, I don't understand why the county is recommending four
months between the obtaining of the demolition permit and the
completion of the demolition in October, the end of October.
MR. MAZZONE: Well, we ask questions of our building
department as to an approximate --
MR. PONTE: Four months?
Page 20
April 26, 2007
MR. MAZZONE: Well, this is out in the Gulf of Mexico, and
they would have to hire a barge and such to accommodate their needs,
I would believe.
And we also solicited two or three bids from local contractors if
in fact the Tostos are -- the owners at that time didn't elect to clean this
location, we were going to see what it would cost and what was
involved in it. And there's quite a few activities that have to take place
prior to cleanup.
MR. PONTE: Is the island posted? Is the property posted to
ward off visitors and children?
MR. MAZZONE: It wasn't at my last visit, but the Tostos had
expressly stated that they wanted to post this, and I don't know if it has
been yet.
MR. PONTE: Should that be part of the stipulation agreement?
MR. TOSTO: Y es. Well, we did post the structure itself. The
island -- on a weekend, there could be 300 people out there. And I
really can't -- they've been doing it there for a lot of years. And we
have no intentions of throwing them off of there unless they make us
throw them off. I mean, they use it for a campground out there and it's
a beautiful area, and I hate to say no, you can't use it because we want
to build a house here. You know, if we're forced to do that
insurance-wise or county-wise for permits, then I will have to do that.
But I really don't want to do that.
MR. PONTE: My concern is that with 300 visitors to the island
on a weekend, certainly some of them with children, that you have an
attractive hazard that you're just allowing it to exist their for four
months gives me concern.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Ken had a question.
MR. KELL Y: Actually, I have a couple of questions.
Mr. Tosto, it's my opinion that you should not enter this
agreement. You are leaving yourself wide open to third-party
situations causing you to have to pay $250 a day. Because it says in
Page 21
April 26, 2007
this agreement that you would not allow litter to remain on the
property. And if any of those 300 or so people at anyone weekend
decided to leave behind a beer can, its $250 a day until you pick it up,
SIr.
MR. TOSTO: Well, we do. We clean it daily.
MR. KELLY: Sir, are you willing to take on that kind of
liability?
MR. TOSTO: No.
MR. KELLY: Not only that--
MR. TOSTO: No.
MR. KELLY: -- if I may, this has been going on for a number of
years. It's not likely that you'll change that kind of activity any time
soon without police involvement, without some kind of barricade to
block it off. It's a beautiful area. I know it. I frequently visit it
myself.
MR. TOSTO: Do you leave any beer cans there?
MR. KELL Y: Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, on bay days,
my family did help to clean it up.
MR. TOSTO: Really?
MR. KELLY : Yes, sir.
MR. TOSTO: Well, I appreciate that.
MR. KELL Y: You're welcome.
But what I will say is this: I would say that this has been going
on for a number of years trying to get the structure rebuilt. It's been
torn apart by a number of storms and hurricanes. The debris that
washes up is now your responsibility. The debris that's left behind is
your responsibility. They're requiring you to take down every aspect
of the existing building and not allowing you to reuse it. And the
reason why is this: If you don't get it all out of there in four months,
okay, you're in violation $250 a day. There is no way you will get a
new permit, you will get the state's approval, environmental protection
and everything else to rebuild this structure in the time that this is
Page 22
April 26, 2007
allowing. Sir, I would not sign this agreement.
MR. TOSTO: Well, my understanding was that I would have to
remove all the unsafe debris and make the buildings so that people
couldn't access them.
MR. KELLY: No, sir, they are telling you to remove everything.
Not make it safe. They're telling you to demolish the building or
remove it.
MR. TOSTO: Well, they're saying that it's un-structurally sound.
And I have an engineer here sitting here that says that the parts are
structurally sound.
Now, that's what the stipulation is that we're trying to enter into.
We want to safe the parts. We know that the foundations failed, but
we want to save the parts. We want to elevate the parts and make
them structurally sound to make a residence out of them. That's what
we're looking to do.
MR. KELLY: The geodesic polyurethane foam core of the
domes themselves I'm sure are sound. But they're asking you to
remove them within four months, period. Are you going to take them
off site, store them somewhere and then --
MR. TOSTO: No.
MR. KELLY: -- bring them back when you do get the permit?
MR. TOSTO: No.
MR. KELLY: Mr. Mazzone, am I wrong to say that you are
asking for everything to be removed?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It says demolition. It doesn't say
rebuild. That was my question.
MR. MAZZONE: Weare asking them to remove all
weather-damaged and wind-driven litter and debris. The structural
elements that are unsafe and unfit for use.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Right.
MR. KELLY: Would you consider pilings that are actually in
the water and partially sticking up or partially hidden unsafe?
Page 23
April 26, 2007
MR. MAZZONE: I personally cannot deem anything unsafe. I
can only go by the letter from Mr. Hammond.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. The intent is to coordinate with the
building department, which we've been doing all along with this
process, to determine what's unsafe and what is not -- what is safe.
And as a part of that building permit process, which they are pursuing,
that determination would be made by the building official.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Could we put something in this
stipulated agreement that stated with the exception -- demolition of all
-- and removal of all the elements attributing to the unsafe and
unattended environmentally harmful conditions, excluding those that
are deemed safe through the building department?
MS. ARNOLD: I don't have any objection to that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm just trying to give him
something. Because the way I read this, this only gives him the
latitude to demolish the project. It does not give him any leeway to
rebuild or utilize any of the elements.
MS. ARNOLD: Ifhe obtains a building permit for the structure,
we can't require him to remove it. But if the board decides to put that
language in and if you feel more comfortable with putting that
language in, I don't think we have any objection to doing that. You'd
have to ask Mr. Tosto as well.
MR. JOHN TOSTO: That sounds great.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We'll need to have you sworn in
if you're going to speak.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I guess at this time I'm going to
go ahead and close the public --
MS. ARNOLD: You can't if you're going to hear from him.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm sorry.
MR. JOHN TOSTO: Do you have this? It's a structural drawing
from a -- it's a rendering of what the building will look like after it's
Page 24
April 26, 2007
renovated.
I do appreciate looking out for our interest on that, and I would
love to implement that into the agreement, if possible.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Couple of questions. First of all, what is your
time frame, expected time frame to have all approvals to start
rebuilding? Is it within this time frame of demolition?
MR. JOHN TOSTO: Well, that would depend on -- right now
the state is on their fourth request for additional information. We've
satisfied that. They have to reply within 30 days. If in fact we get
their approval within 30 days, then it would be on Collier County's
table. How long Collier County would take from both the
environmental and the building permitting, I don't know.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The thing is, you're tied into this agreement
that if you don't have all your permits in place to build, then you're
going to have to do the demolition.
MR. JOHN TOSTO: We should -- four months should be more
than enough time.
But I would like to also put something in there that if for some
reason they tied me up, I don't want to loose the building. I don't want
to have to take the building away.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I guess the--
MS. ARNOLD: Well, and this is no different from any of your
other building permit cases where if there is a delay on the part of, you
know, someone other than the property owner and that information is
provided at the time that we're imposing fines, that is considered for
your imposition.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Correct.
The other question is, it might be a moot point, but 2-C, it stated
that you were responsible for going onto other people's property. I
assume that other person's name, it was someone else's property that
you would have to go on to clean up?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Their debris belonged to --
Page 25
April 26, 2007
MR. JOHN TOSTO: I've cleaned -- I mean I've pretty much
taken responsibility for the whole Cape Romano. Yeah, most of the
property is owned by the state. Some parcels -- very few parcels on
the front side are owned by private individuals still.
Yes, I have gone on other people's property and cleaned up the
beach.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Can we put that in the stipulated agreement
that someone can go on someone else's property to pick up debris?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It didn't state that. It stated that
he was picking up the debris from someone else, probably, that had
blown onto his.
MR. JOHN TOSTO: It's actually if it's below mean high water,
it's the state's property. So floating debris would typically end up on
the state's property as opposed to a private individual.
MS. RAWSON: I believe the investigator said that 2-C is in
compliance.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Ifnot, I'm going to close the
public part of this and open it to the board for discussion as to whether
or not to accept this stipulated agreement as it's written.
MR. PONTE: Well, for matters of discussion, I will repeat my
concern about the four-month delay in getting the demolition
accomplished.
The building, from the photos that we saw with that second floor
flooring torn away, pile of bricks, we've got a serious attractive
hazard, particularly in a place that's visited by 300 carefree people
drinking beer on a visit. And I don't know what the solution is, but
certainly the time frame of four months is way too long.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Well, on the flip side of that, the demolition
and the removal of the items isn't simply just bringing a dumpster
Page 26
April 26, 2007
on-site.
MR. PONTE: No, that's true.
MR LEFEBVRE: And two, they want to use some of the
components for a rebuild. So in light of that, I think __
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: What if fencing __
MR PONTE: Well, just as with anything else, whether you're
getting a dumpster or a barge there, you arrange for it, schedule it and
its there on-site until it's filled.
As for the items that are left behind for a future use, just like any
other site, it should be in a safe and secure place so the property is up
to standards.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Well, on construction sites when
they're building and renovating, they usually fence it off and put no
trespassing signs. They have said that they put no trespassing signs up.
MR MORGAN: The salvageable material, you can store it, you
can build a fence around it with a gate with a lock on it. That will
secure it. You've met your obligation.
The other thing was all the debris, I wonder, does it have to be
barged to shore, put in a dumpster and barged to shore?
MS. ARNOLD: Urn-hum.
MR MORGAN: That takes time. You got to arrange for a
barge, a dumpster and a tub to push it -- or a push boat to push it. But
if you -- the salvageable material, put it in an area that's not __ where a
lot of people don't go. Build a fence around it, put a lock on it with a
gate and you've met your obligation.
MR PONTE: I agree.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And I still am uncomfortable
with this strictly stating demolition.
MR MORGAN: I'm not uncomfortable. I think we're making
something complicated out of something that's simple.
MR KELLY: It doesn't say build a fence and store material
there. It says remove it from the property.
Page 27
April 26, 2007
MR. MORGAN: Well, I think that's the obligation of the
contractor. He knows what he's doing.
MR. JOHN TOSTO: Well, one thing I'd like to say. We are ply-
wooding right now. In other words, we're completely closing off.
Nobody can get into the structure anymore. It's completely ply-
wooded off, all windows are boarded up. At this point we're just
about done with that.
MR. KELLY: Well, according to this agreement that's more
material you're just going to have to remove, sir.
MR. JOHN TOSTO: Okay. Okay.
MR. KELLY: If you know what I'm saying. They're asking you
to remove every -- I know it's closed to the public, I apologize, Sheri,
for continuing this. But they are asking you to remove every bit of
debris, every bit of construction material from this site within four
months.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Madam Chair, I think we have a
misunderstanding here. They're not asking them to do that. They're
asking them to remove elements, not the complete structure. Am I
misunderstanding that, Michelle?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It says all elements.
MS. ARNOLD: I think there is a misunderstanding, absolutely.
I mean, the investigator has shown you all debris that if we were
taking it literally would have to been removed from the site. And we
have told you that they're in compliance. So to take this agreement
and read more into it than we have intended I think is objectionable. I
think that -- I think you all -- if you all have a problem with what the
stipulated agreement is, you all should change it to reflect what your
concerns are, and the record would show what your intent was.
I think, you know, to state that we're going to require somebody
to remove something that they're not required to remove is wrong.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Well, maybe it's because if it's
unclear to us that sit up here on a monthly basis, maybe it would be
Page 28
April 26, 2007
unclear to someone else, Michelle. You know, just as a point of
contention.
MS. ARNOLD: And the record would specify. The record is
available verbatim to whoever would have a question about the
interpretation.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm not trying to fight you on it, I
just wanted to make sure that we were all understanding. Because you
thought he was going to raze it, meaning he was going to demolish it.
And he's talking about raising it footage-wise by putting new pilings
under it. So there was a miscommunication there as well that reflects
in the record.
I think he's trying to salvage the upper structures.
MS. ARNOLD: I understand what he's trying to do.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: But I don't see that being
accommodated in this. I see that it says demolish.
MR. MORGAN: I think the stipulation's simple. It comes to the
point. There's two different things: One is the stipulation covers
demolition of the structure that cannot be used, hauling it away and
obtaining a new building permit for the new structure that's going to
go up, regardless of what it -- we don't have anything to do with a new
structure.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Rather than saying
remove of all elements, why don't we say unusable structure?
MR. L'ESPERANCE: I think we should stick with the terms
where it says elements. Elements do not mean structure. Structure
means an entire building. Maybe we can clarify the term elements so
we're not getting confused with the fact that some people think that
we're requiring him to remove the entire structure. We're not. We're
requiring him and he's agreed to remove the elements that are unsafe.
The debris, the portions, the segments, the tiny pieces of the building
that are unsafe or broken, not the entire structure.
MR. KELLY: To do such a thing, I really think we need to have
Page 29
April 26, 2007
some kind of testimony from the people who make those decisions to
determine, and this is straight out of the agreement, removal of unsafe,
unattended environmentally harmful conditions and resulting debris.
Give me a definition of that, explain what has to be removed
exactly, and then maybe you have an agreement. But right now this is
objectionable on all sides.
I agree, Michelle, with what you were saying, it's objectionable
on yours, but it's objectionable on mine. And there needs to be a lot
more clarification.
MS. ARNOLD: And the clarification will be provided at the
time of permit. I don't think you're going to get anyone that is going
to be able to give you specifics as to what is -- because we have an
engineer's report from the Tostos that needs to be submitted to the
county for their review.
MR. KELL Y: I'm not comfortable fining someone $250 a day
and then relaying upon the will of the board to abate those fines
possibly.
The agreement, I don't believe, takes into consideration all the
facts here, and I'm not going to support it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Well, we can revamp it because
that's what we're up to.
MR. PONTE: Well, I think that revamping it so that we
understand what we're really saying. Because when it says remove all
elements attributing to unsafe and unattended yackety-yak, we need
professional guidance, and it should be up to the county to redraft this.
It should not be up to the board to decide what's safe and unsafe and
trying to make a list of items. If I cut myself on a beer can, it was an
unsafe item. It has to be prepared, and certainly vague terms have to
be more precisely focused and described.
MR. KELLY: There are pilings in the water. A boat could strike
them. That can possibly be unsafe.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We can't talk.
Page 30
April 26, 2007
MR. MORGAN: We can't judge that. That's a structural
engineer that's going to examine that.
MR. KELL Y: Somebody would say that that is structurally
sound, yet it could potentially cause a hazard to someone.
MR. MORGAN: That's up to a structural engineer to determine.
MR. KELL Y: Correct. It's not up to the board.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Guys, let me just stop you here.
Because first off, we're going to give Cherie' a heart attack because
we're all talking at the same time.
Let's see if we -- we have the right to do one of two things: We
can revamp this to our comfort or we can not accept it and we can hear
the case. So that's where we're at.
MR. PONTE: I make a motion to reject the stipulation as
written, with a recommendation that it go back to the county for
reworking.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That's not one of the choices. We
have the right to make the changes and approve it.
MR. PONTE: Or not to.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Or hear the case.
MR. PONTE: Or not to.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Or hear the case.
MR. PONTE: Or not to.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Or not. To accept it and hear the
case. Where we would be crafting it, not the county.
MR. PONTE: Dangerous.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Those are our choices.
MR. MORGAN: You could say remove all the elements not
intended for new construction.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That would work for me.
Would that work for you, Ken?
MR. KELLY: I don't even believe the respondents nor county
know what elements are going to be used for construction.
Page 31
April 26, 2007
MR. MORGAN: That's to be determined by someone else, not
us.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Nobody knows that at the time,
so if we put it in there, at least they have the safeguard of they can use
it.
MR. LEFEBVRE: How about put in there removing all the
elements attributing to unsafe and unattended environmentally
harmful conditions based on an engineering report provided by either
the county or Tostos?
MR. MORGAN: I think you're getting too complicated.
MR. DEAN: Michelle, do you still have that stipulation paper?
MR. LEFEBVRE: We have it in our packet.
MR. DEAN: I know you do. I want to see it up here.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Our alternate down on the end,
do you have any suggestions?
MR. MARTIN: I would allow this order to go as written and
give the gentleman four months or whatever it takes to get his permits
together. Because each little piece of concrete is very valuable when
you've got to ship stuff in. You may think it's, you know, a piece of
junk or something but it's, you know, a building material. Even a
piece out in the water or whatever it may be.
MR. DEAN: That's your motion?
MR. MARTIN: Yes, it is.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That's his opinion, is to leave it as
it is.
MR. DEAN: Are you making it a motion?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: No, he just said his opinion.
MR. DEAN: I'm asking him. Are you going to make a motion?
MR. MARTIN: I'll make a motion to allow it like it's written.
MR. DEAN: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We have a motion to accept the
stipulated agreement as its read. And a second.
Page 32
April 26, 2007
All those in favor?
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Opposed?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Opposed.
MR. PONTE: Opposed.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
MR. DEAN: That's opposed, four?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Four.
MR. DEAN: Three against?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Um-hum.
So it does not pass as it is currently. And we want to revamp it or
do we want to hear the case?
MR. PONTE: Well, my feeling is we've heard the case. We'd
just be going over old ropes. So I don't really know if that's the
question. It wouldn't solve much.
MR. LEFEBVRE: With my comments that I made regarding the
engineering report, would that verbiage take care of someone's
concerns -- most people's concerns?
MR. DEAN: I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to answer that
one.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can the attorney help me here at
all? I'm going to get you in on this.
MR. KLATZKOW: I apologize, I was out of the room for a few
minutes there.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The majority of us are
uncomfortable with the stipulated agreement as its written, because
we're taking it to -- I guess basically state that he has to demolition
everything. They're stating that it says all elements that are unsafe.
We don't know how to determine what is and what isn't safe, and we
Page 33
April 26, 2007
have no engineering background, nor do we have any engineering
proposals at this time in front of us to declare that.
MR. KLA TZKOW: You can give staff direction as to what you
would like to see and put this off until the next meeting and then
perhaps with that direction staff and the citizen can get together and
come forward with something that's more to your liking.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, the agreement that's before the board is
what the county and the property owners agreed to. And it's the board
that is uncomfortable. So I don't know, ifthere's something that is in
it that you don't like, you have the ability to change what you don't
like.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I agree.
MS. ARNOLD: So I don't know how we can bring you back an
agreement that is determining what you like. I don't know.
MR. PONTE: The County could certainly prepare an agreement
that is more specific. The problem that I'm having with this is that it's
filled with vagueries (sic).
MS. ARNOLD: Well, the county -- the specificity with regards
to what specific elements are is something that is not determinable at
this time because they have to go through a permitting process. And
at the time of the permitting process is when those elements will be
defined. And you're asking us to put something down that unless
they're going through that process, we can't determine it.
MR. PONTE: No, but in effect you're asking us to do it.
MS. ARNOLD: No, I'm not.
MR. PONTE: You're not?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: You're asking him to sign
something that doesn't specify what he has to tear down and doesn't.
But yet you'll fine him $250 a day if he doesn't take care of it.
MS. ARNOLD: Because we will be coordinating with the
department that would be providing those permits to determine what
elements are going to be used as a part of the construction and what
Page 34
April 26, 2007
are not.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I think that's where my problem
is in a nutshell. Because you're asking him for something that's not
determined to be responsible for until we get it determined.
MS. ARNOLD: And we do that with every permit case. We ask
them to obtain a permit. We don't tell them what elements they should
be using for construction and what they don't. We -- at the time of the
permit --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Michelle, but here you're telling
him he has to demolish what isn't acceptable.
MS. ARNOLD: Exactly. Because we have a determination from
the building official indicating that the structure is unsafe. That's what
we're going by. If there's a document that's presented after that says
something otherwise with regard to a structural engineer saying that
these things are sound, that would replace what we have, because
that's the process. That's the only process that we have.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: You just helped me click in.
What if we constructed this utilizing your verbiage at the top and add
to it, unless the structural engineer's information precludes specific
items? In other words, they don't have --
MR. MORGAN: Michelle, I think you're absolutely correct.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Maybe I'm being bullheaded.
MR. MORGAN: You are. I think what you're saying is
absolutely right. Demolition is one thing that the inspector's going to
take care of. The building permit and the structural elements is
another item that his structural engineer, his architect and the building
department will take care of.
What he removes out of there -- if you make a list of elements,
you'll have a list 20 miles long. You can't list everything. That's up to
sound judgment. And what you're saying is correct. All that these
people are doing is adding to the confusion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Jean? I'm looking for direction,
Page 35
April 26, 2007
because I really --
MS. RAWSON: Well, you basically have rejected the stipulated
agreement. So you've got two choices, as you properly pointed out:
You can change the agreement to satisfy what all of your concerns are
by further defining, you know, what we're talking about is an unsafe
and unattended environmentally harmful condition, or you can hear
the case.
But you've already voted 4-3 not to approve the stipulation.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Right.
Ken?
MR. KELLY: Well, the litter was -- according to testimony, the
litter is cleaned up and it's boarded. So you can't enter an unsafe
structure. So the basis behind the stipulated agreement has been
achieved to an extent. Why don't we table it, let them get the
engineer's report and see where we're going to go from there.
MR. PONTE: When you say table it, what you mean is to
continue this to another time to hear the case?
MR. KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. LEFEBVRE: When will the engineering report be in?
That's the question. Ifwe look at this agreement as it stands, we are
hoping that the engineering report would be in by May 28th to
determine what is to be demolished and what's to remain.
So I don't think that's a date that is agreeable. But I just don't
want to leave this open-ended.
MR. KELLY: Sure.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I really understand what the
county's trying to do with the permit request for the demolition. I just
need something in there that states that he has the right to utilize some
of the materials that are not deemed unsafe. And I would be able to
accept this.
MR. MARTIN: Well, the only elements of value that they have
there is the concrete and the dome. And the rest of this stuff is debris.
Page 36
April 26, 2007
He's already cleaned up the debris, so --
MR. KELL Y: And he's boarded it up.
MR. MARTIN: He's boarded it up. So nobody's --
MR. KELL Y: So what's left to agree upon?
MR. MARTIN: That's correct.
MR. KELL Y: What do you need the agreement for in the first
place?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Well, I guess we'll have to move
to hear the case then is the only thing I can suggest, because we're not
coming to agreement on this.
MR. PONTE: I think we're going to have a very long case.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We may have. Okay. Sorry.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Madam Chair, could we break for a few
minutes, please?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Sure. Give us a break till -- 10
minutes, five minutes? How long do you want?
MR. PONTE: Ten.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Ten minutes. So 10:17.
(Recess.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Time is 10:17. We'll reconvene.
I'd like to call the Collier County code enforcement hearing back.
And it looks like maybe during the break we had some work, so we
can rather than rehear this case, go back to looking at a new stipulated
agreement, if I'm guessing correctly.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. The county met with your attorney,
Jean Rawson, together with the respondents, and we think we've come
up with a possibility that you might find acceptable. It's on the screen.
What it says is -- my handwriting's terrible, you have to forgive me,
but n
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I can read it.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I can read it.
MR. KLATZKOW: It will be paragraph four to the stipulation
Page 37
April 26, 2007
that's before you. And what it says is that the parties agree that
respondent may petition the Code Enforcement Board to modify the
stipulation based upon the findings of the engineer's report of the
premises. The engineer's report must be substantially completed by
May 28th, 2007, unless otherwise extended by the Code Enforcement
Board.
The idea being that if the engineer's report comes back and
something gets salva -- or can't get salvageable, we'll work with that
report. And if the respondent isn't happy with the way he's been
treated by the county, based on the report he can come back to you for
the guidance by this board.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Any comments from the
board?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All right, do we want a --
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Go ahead.
MR. PONTE: No, go ahead, make the motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make the motion to accept the addendum
and the original stipulated agreement.
MR. DEAN: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Very well done, thank you.
Page 38
April 26, 2007
MR. DEAN: One paragraph. Thank you, Attorney.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The next stipulated agreement,
hopefully it will be easier, is the Board of Collier County
Commissioners versus Paul Skipper as a/k/a Paul Skipper, Trustee.
MS. ARNOLD: I'm sorry, there's no stipulation for that one. I
misspoke on that. That's just a general case. So we are done with the
stipulations and we are --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Actually, I thought it was for a
continuance that I had in my packet for that one.
MS. ARNOLD: They originally had a continuance, but they
withdrew it because they don't need it because they're in compliance.
MR. MORGAN: There's the letter.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Then that's all of the
stipulated --
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, it is.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: -- agreements.
Okay, then we will move towards the public hearings. The first
case being Board of Collier County Commissioners versus Frank
Fernandez.
MS. MARKU: For the record, Bendisa Marku, Operations
Coordinator for Collier County Code Enforcement.
I would like to ask if the respondent is present?
(No response.)
MS. MARKU: The respondent is not present.
The respondent and the board were sent a package of evidence,
and I would like to enter the package as Exhibit A.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'll entertain a motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion to accept the package.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
Page 39
April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MS. MARKU: Violation of Ordinance 04-41 as amended,
Section 1.04.01.
Description of violation: The illegal storage of vehicles and
materials on unimproved property.
Location/address where violation exists: Folio No. 39658240005.
Name and address of owner/person in charge of violation
location: Frank Fernandez, 11987 Southwest Sixth Street, Miami,
Florida, 33184.
Date violation first observed: December 2nd, 2006.
Date owner/person in charge given Notice of Violation:
December 5th, 2006.
Date on/by which violation to be corrected: December 28th,
2006.
Date ofre-inspection: Final re-inspection on January 26th, 2007.
Results of re- inspection: Violation remains.
At this time I would like to turn the case over to the investigator,
Thomas Keegan.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. KEEGAN: Good morning. For the record, Thomas
Keegan, Collier County Code Enforcement Investigator.
This case started on December 2nd. Investigator Joe Mucha went
out to the property. It came in as a complaint. He observed two
vehicles, three recreational vehicles being stored on vacant residential
property.
Page 40
April 26, 2007
The case was turned over to me. I went out there on the 5th,
which I observed the same. I posted the Notice of Violation, sent it
out by certified mail, regular mail.
I made numerous site visits to this property. It was always the
same. I ran the tag numbers, the VIN numbers and the license plate on
the vehicles. They all came back to the property owner, Frank
Fernandez.
I had just numerous site visits to this property. And some
vehicles would be removed, new ones would be moved back on his
property. He was -- from what I got from the neighbors, he was
coming down there on the weekends, week nights, and just setting up
a campground. And then I guess he would go back to Miami after a
day or whatnot.
I do have pictures I'd like to enter in as evidence.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Would that be Exhibit B?
MR. KEEGAN: Yes, please.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: May I entertain a motion.
MR. PONTE: Make a motion to accept.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. KEEGAN: That's from the front view of the -- actually,
that's the rear of the property. As you can see, it looks like just a
campground. They went up there and hung out and whatnot.
Page 41
April 26, 2007
Generator; all the loose material was stored in the middle of the
property .
That's another picture.
That's also on the -- all the way in the rear of the property. That
had a phone number for sale, I called it, there was no -- not in service.
That's in the center of the property.
That's yesterday's photos. I was out there yesterday.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is that still yesterday's?
MR. KEEGAN: Yes, ma'am.
On the last hearing date for the board, Mr. Fernandez was here
and he requested additional time. I received a letter from Jose Lago,
and which is stated that he is not representing Mr. Fernandez.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MR. MORGAN: Have you had any contact with Mr. Fernandez?
MR. KEEGAN: Just at the last hearing. That was it.
MR. MORGAN: Oh, he was here.
MR. KEEGAN: I did have -- Notice of Violation was posted at
the property.
MR. PONTE: Of the vehicles on the property, are they all
untagged?
MR. KEEGAN : Yes, sir.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Are there any permanent structures on
this property?
MR. KEEGAN: No.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Any permanent structures on adjacent
properties?
MR. KEEGAN: Yes, sir.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: And that's probably or possibly where the
complaints initiated?
MR. KEEGAN: I've talked to the neighborhoods numerous
times about it. No, they were not happy about it.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: What size of a lot are we speaking about
Page 42
April 26, 2007
here?
MR. KEEGAN: I'd probably say 30 frontage, 200 deep. It's a
big lot.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Is this in the Estates?
MR. KEEGAN : Yes, sir.
MR. LEFEBVRE: You said 30 by 200?
MR. KEEGAN: Yeah.
MR. LEFEBVRE: It's got to be minimum 75 by -- or 660,
probably. 1.1.
MR. KEEGAN : Well, it's a couple of unimproved lots. I don't
know. The way I could get in, that's what I'm going off of.
On -- actually I received a call on February 21st, 2007 from the
neighbor, Jackie, and she stated that Mr. Fernandez asked her to put
the vehicles on her property, which she denied. And the next morning
she woke up and there was some items on her property, which she had
removed.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: How long has he owned the property?
MR. KEEGAN: 1998.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do we have any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Ifnot, I'll close the public hearing
and open it up to the board for discussion. For a finding of fact.
MR. KELL Y: I make a motion that a violation does exist.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
Page 43
April 26, 2007
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Resolution?
MR. KELL Y: Wasn't there some discussion at the last meeting
as to whether or not even to grant an extension? The gentleman --
didn't they have a hard time getting in contact with him the last time
and he just kind of showed up and he said oh, I have an attorney now
who's going to take care of it?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And that was the reason we
granted him the extension was because he didn't have his attorney
present.
MS. RAWSON: I spoke with his attorney. He doesn't even
know who he is.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So that's just a line I think to stall
now. Okay?
Somebody want to craft a motion as to how we want this --
MR. PONTE: Let's hear from the county.
MR. KEEGAN: The County recommends that the respondent
pay all operational costs in the amount of 386.82 incurred in the
prosecution of this case and abate all violations by removing all
vehicles and materials from unimproved property within 14 days of
this hearing or Collier County will abate violation at all costs to be
assessed against said property.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: In what method will Collier County abate
the violation?
MR. KEEGAN: They will have a company go in, tow
everything out.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And ifhe were to accomplish it
in 14 days, does he need to notify you?
MR. KEEGAN: The respondent must notify the code
Page 44
April 26, 2007
enforcement investigator when the violation has been abated in order
to conduct a final inspection to confirm abatement.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And if -- okay.
MR. LEFEBVRE: There's no dollar amount if they do not abate.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: No, because if they don't abate,
then the county's --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Oh, okay.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: -- going to do it and he'll get
charged with whatever the cost is.
MR. KEEGAN: We're just looking to get it cleaned, get it out of
there.
MR. KELL Y: I make a motion we accept the county's violation
agreement.
MR. DEAN: Second.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. KEEGAN: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
Okay, so now we would call Board of County Commissioners
versus Paul Skipper, a/k/a Paul Skipper, Trustee.
MS. MARKU: I would like to ask if the respondent is present.
(No response.)
MS. MARKU: For the record, the respondent is not present.
Page 45
April 26, 2007
The respondent and the board was sent a package of evidence,
and I would like to enter the package of evidence as Exhibit A.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'll entertain a motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion to accept.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. MARKU: Violation of Ordinance No. 2004-58, Section 6,
compliance with housing standards. Par. 12, exterior and interior
structures of dwelling units; Section 11, method for designation and
elimination of hazardous buildings; Section 12, standards for repair or
demolition of hazardous buildings by the county; Section 15,
responsibilities for property maintenance; Section 16, responsibilities
of owners of vacant structures.
Also, Ordinance No. 2005-44, Section 7, unauthorized
accumulation of littler; and Section 8, abandoned property/prohibited.
Description of violation: No progress. And a continuation of
neglected maintenance and unsafe conditions related to a
storm-damaged, wood-framed stilt-supported residential structure. All
same derelict structure and related wood and support elements and
storm-damaged, wind-driven debris remains unattended and a
potential hazard.
Also, litter and abandoned property consisting of but not limited
to weather-damaged and wind-driven construction elements,
Page 46
April 26, 2007
construction materials and other foreign materials left uncontained and
unattended throughout this entire seaward and landward area of
critical state concern/special treatment, (AlACSC/ST), zoned property.
Location/address where violation exists: Township 53, Section
10, range 26, parcel number 34, lot B-2. Folio No. 01198840003, also
known as seaward and landward property, Morgan Isle, Cape
Romano, Collier County, Florida.
Name and address of owner/person in charge of violation
location: Paul Skipper, Paul Skipper, Trustee, Morgan and Island
Land Trust.
Date violation first observed: January 20th, 2005.
Date owner/person in charge given Notice of Violation:
February 22nd, 2007. That's the date of certified mail receipt.
Date on/by which violation to be corrected: February 15th, 2007.
Date ofre-inspection: February 21st, 2007.
Results of re-inspection: Violations remain.
All documents and notices with regards to this matter were
served pursuant to Section 162.12, Florida Statutes.
At this time I would like to turn the case over to the investigator,
Dennis Mazzone.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. MAZZONE: For the record, Dennis Mazzone, Collier
County Code Enforcement.
I hope we do better with this one.
This one -- these both take place on the same island.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Almost next to each other.
MR. MAZZONE: Almost next to each other. In fact, I have a--
it's very difficult to show the exact property boundary lines, but I did
my best to try to show approximately where they are.
And I'm going to point to the location of where this particular
wood frame structure was located. And I did note it on the -- on this
exhibit.
Page 47
April 26, 2007
MR. MAZZONE: That was where it once was located.
On February 2nd, 2005, Collier County Code Enforcement
received an inspection report from Collier County's Building Review
and Permitting Director, Bill Hammond, informing us of unsafe
conditions relative to the uninhabited wood-frame residence in
question.
At the time of this report, which was dated January 24th, 2005,
the structure was owned by a Mr. John Kotula, Jr. His name is spelled
K-O-T-U-L-A.
On September 27th, 2005, our office learned that Mr. Paul
Skipper had become the owner of the property in question.
On October 23rd, 2005, and October 24th, throughout that
period, Hurricane Wilma had completely destroyed the wood frame
structure in question, scattering its debris throughout adjacent
properties.
And those properties would be not just the ones shown in this
exhibit but some of the areas beyond that.
On April 10th, 2007, I made a site visit with John and Domenic
Tosto, the parties that had just left this chamber, confirming that Mr.
Skipper's violation had been abated.
Let me just clarify that. The previous owner is associated with
the Tostos. They are either -- I don't know if they're family, but I
think he's part of their efforts on the island in a professional way.
I made the site visit with the Tostos, and I confirmed that
Skipper's violation had been abated. I'm going to put a couple of
photographs on the viewer.
My initial visit showed this -- the debris that I'm about to show
you was lodged in various trees and shrubberies that are on the island.
These are panels of construction debris, lumber, probably siding
from what was the wood frame stilt house.
This photo shows a foam insulation type of debris, construction
debris.
Page 48
April 26, 2007
And this next photograph is going to show you upon my
revisiting the island what had been -- everything has been removed. I
took a photo of the typical location of where these -- this is where the
lumber was located. It's completely removed. All of the styrofoam is
removed from the island.
The Tostos have -- they took it upon themselves to remove all of
these materials. Therefore, Mr. Skipper is in compliance with what
the initial investigation was looking into.
Mr. Skipper also paid -- because we had asked him to pay all our
operational costs, he sent a check to Collier County in the amount of
$1,182.29. If you'd like, I can put this on the view master.
He had sent that in full payment of all our operational costs.
And at this time we do not have any problem with Mr. Tosto's
(sic) property -- or that individual. He is in compliance and he has
come --
MS. ARNOLD: Skipper.
MR. MAZZONE: I'm sorry, I get the names mixed up. Mr.
Skipper. I keep saying Tosto. Excuse me.
We have no problem with Mr. Skipper's property, and we could
close this case.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you. I'll close the public
hearing and look to the board for a motion as finding of fact.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I guess this is a quick question for Mike.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm sorry, I have to reopen it,
because --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Just one quick question. The reason the
county's bringing the case before us is so if there's any repeat, then the
fines could be increased? I'm just wondering why if everything's been
taken care of it's been brought in front of us.
MS. ARNOLD: We have a department policy, even when cases
have been found in violation, if it got to a certain point, and this
particular one did, we would bring it forward anyway. We already --
Page 49
April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I was going to say, we've done
that in the past. We find a finding of fact and then we close the --
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion that there's a finding of fact
that there was a violation.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. And basically operational
costs were incurred and paid, so that was the fine. And I think we're
done.
MR. PONTE: Case closed.
MR. MAZZONE: Thank you very much.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Looks like the next case we have
is Board of County Commissioners versus TW Management of
Naples, a/k/a Naples Investments, Inc.
MS. ARNOLD: We've already resolved that one. That was
continued.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Oh, was that -- No.8 was
continued?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
And we're at item number nine.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. I missed that somehow. I
didn't write it down, I guess. Sorry.
It is the Beijing Restaurant, okay.
Page 50
April 26, 2007
The next case then is Board of County Commissioners versus
Roilan Perez.
MS. MARKU: I would like to ask if the respondent is present?
(No response.)
MS. MARKU: For the record, the respondent is not present.
The respondent and the board were sent a package of evidence
and I would like to enter that package of evidence as Exhibit A.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Entertain a motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion to accept the county's
package.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. MARKU: Violation of Ordinance No. 2004-41, as
amended, the Collier County Land Development Code. Section
10.02.06(B) (1) (a), and the Collier County Code of Laws and
Ordinances, Section 22, Article II, 103.11.1. Section 106.1.2,;
certificate of occupancy.
Description of violation: Interior and exterior conversion and
non-permitted construction.
Location/address where violation exists: 1974 46th Street
Southwest, Naples, Florida.
Name and address of owner/person in charge of violation
location: Roilan Perez, 1974 46th Street Southwest, Naples, Florida.
Page 51
April 26, 2007
Date violation first observed: October 27th, 2006.
Date owner/person in charge given Notice of Violation:
November 1st, 2006.
Date on which violation to be corrected: January 1st, 2007.
Date ofre-inspection: January 12th, 2007.
The results ofre-inspection: Violations remain.
At this time, I would like to turn the case over to Code
Enforcement Investigator Renald Paul.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. PAUL: How are you doing? This investigation started on
10/27/06. Somebody had called in a complaint stating that they felt
that the residence was being divided up into single units.
And I got to the property sometime around 5:00 where I seen a--
I observed a gentleman that was actually doing work on the home. He
didn't want to state his name, so I was unable to get his name.
But at that time I asked him where the owner was, and he had
called him on his cell phone and had the owner come down. And I
had placed a stop work order on the property. Here's the picture of it.
After --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We need to enter that as an
Exhibit B. I'd like to entertain a motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I'd like to make a motion to enter this as
Exhibit B.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. PAUL: After the owner appeared at the residence, he really
didn't speak any English, so we were having a little communication
problem. But he did sign an entry consent and did allow me to go into
the residence.
I have a photo here I'd like to enter as another exhibit to explain
what he's actually done.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'll entertain a motion for Exhibit
c.
MR. DEAN: Motion to accept Exhibit C.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. KELLY: Are we accepting the entire packet then?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: He's been doing it
piece-by-piece.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, didn't we--
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We've already accepted hers, but
these are in addition.
MR. PAUL: Right, yeah, these are an addition.
As you can see, when you walk into the front door, there is a wall
to the right, which this gentleman clearly stated to me that this wall
shouldn't be there, and that he actually put the wall up. So that was an
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April 26, 2007
add-on.
And then if you move towards room number four, okay, there's
another wall to the left of that. That wall shouldn't be there either.
To the left side of that residence, he pretty much made a single --
he made a single unit out of it. He put in a kitchen, has its own
restroom. But that room itself does not go into the main room. There's
a door to it and that's the only way in and out of that part of the
residence.
If you look towards the back where the lanai is supposed to be,
he took the lanai, split it in half and made two rooms out of it. To the
right, to the front right side, that is also a single unit. That unit -- it
does go into the living -- the family area, but I don't know how to get
that door open, and he wasn't able to get the door open also. So that's
also a single unit that also has as kitchen in it. So he has three
kitchens in this residence.
And he's also placed windows in the lanai area. And I'll hand in a
couple more exhibits that just show the new windows that he put in
the lanai area.
That picture shows a picture of the left side of the lanai. That
was the window on that side, and he's got --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Excuse me, I need to have this
entered as evidence D.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. PAUL: And this is the right side of the lanai that was split
in half.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can we combine both of those
into D.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right.
MR. DEAN: Correct.
MR. PAUL: Well, due to communication problems with the
gentleman and he didn't really speak any English, I had to return with
an interpreter the second time around before I'd serve him the notice.
So I came back on 11/1 with Eddie Ybaceta. He's an investigator
for Collier County Code Enforcement. And at that time we explained
to him what his violation was with all the conversions and him doing
it without any permits. And he explained that to him in Spanish.
And he signed the Notice of Violation. And he knew he had till
January 1st of'07 to obtain permits for everything that had been
converted.
From that time, January 27th, after phone conversations with Mr.
Perez, he came into the office. At that time I was with Investigator
Carmelo Gomez. And he needed to have surveys done and so on on
the residence so that he could bring that to permitting, which was
explained to him by Carmelo Gomez. And at that time he said he'd
get those things to the other and then he'd come back to the office.
On 12/11, I had Mr. Gomez wait in the office for this gentleman
to bring the paperwork. He never showed up.
On 12/18, went back to the property, spoke with one of his
tenants, Arturo, who said the gentleman was at work and he had called
him on the phone and he said he'd be coming to his office, but he
never showed up.
12/29, his phone number was disconnected, the one he had given
me, and I haven't been able to get a hold of him since.
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April 26, 2007
4/10/07, I did a posting of the property, or a notice of hearing.
We did get a green card back signed from Hialeah, stating that he
obviously lives in Hialeah, Florida.
And I'll enter one more exhibit, the green card signed.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, may I have an acceptance
of exhibit -- I think this is E.
MR. DEAN: Motion to accept.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELL Y: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. PAUL: So he is aware of to day's proceeding, but he didn't
show up. And we're here today. So there's really nothing else.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Have you been back in the house
since and has anything changed?
MR. PAUL: I was there yesterday. There is no one living there.
Everybody has vacated this residence, and so there is no way of
contacting him by anybody else.
Just for the court's record, this gentleman has another residency
here, 652 Pompano Drive, where he's done this same exact thing to,
that residence there, which there's no one residing there either. And we
have an open case on that also.
MR. MORGAN: So he's using this for rental property; is that
correct?
MR. PAUL: Correct. But the one time I was there, he did tell
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April 26, 2007
me he was living at this address.
MR. MORGAN: But it's not zoned for rental property.
MR. PAUL: No. No, it's not. Well, he can rent the residence
out, but because of what he's done to it, he's created quad-plex out of
it, when it's a single-family home.
MR. MORGAN: Right.
MR. LEFEBVRE: This is Estates zoning, correct?
MR. PAUL: Correct.
MR. LEFEBVRE: So it's a single-family use with a guest house
zoning, correct?
MR. PAUL: I believe so.
MR. LEFEBVRE: So there's no way you could get this
permitted.
MR. PAUL: No, this is Golden Gate City.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Golden Gate City, okay, sorry.
MR. DEAN: Just one quick question. On the bottom right of
this form, it says -- does that say notice of hearing, BM 5/24/07?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
MR. DEAN: That's May 24th?
MR. PAUL: Yes, I believe that's what's written on there.
MR. DEAN: So are we saying that's when he was supposed to
be here, as opposed to four --
MR. PAUL: That's Bendisa.
MS. ARNOLD: 5/24?
MR. DEAN: That's next month.
MS. ARNOLD: Oh, you want to tell them that?
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MS. MARKU: The date of 5/24, because first of all, he was
scheduled to go for May 24th, that was the notice of hearing, for May
24th. But then we had some changes and we removed some changes
in the agenda, so we placed him under this hearing. But he had
sufficient notice. So that just --
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April 26, 2007
MR. DEAN: But he has a notice to be here today?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: He did have notice then?
MS. MARKU: He had notice. His notice is -- that was just a
misprint on the green receipt. He had the actual notice for today's
hearing.
MR. DEAN: So I hope he went by that one and not this one,
right?
MS. ARNOLD: Did he have two notices or one notice?
MS. MARKU: He only had one notice. The notice that he
received was for April 22nd. The notice of hearing stated it was for
April 22nd hearing. That green receipt was marked for May 24th
because he was first scheduled for May 24th. So that was just a
misprint on the green receipt.
MR. PONTE: The date of delivery is April 19th; is that right?
MR. PAUL: That is correct.
MR. PONTE: Today's the 26th.
MS. ARNOLD: He picked it up on the 19th. That's when he --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That's when he signed the green
card.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: If there are no other questions, I'll
close the public hearing, open it for finding of fact.
Would anyone like to make a motion whether or not a violation
exists?
MR. PONTE: Well, I think clearly a violation exists. I'll make a
motion that a violation exists as described in the charging documents
ofCEB Case 2007-37, Collier County Board of County
Commissioners verse Roilan Perez, the respondent.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Does the county have a
suggestion?
MR. PAUL: Yes, we do.
County requests that owner pay all operational costs in the
amount of $366.67 incurred in the prosecution of this case. Abate all
violations by obtaining Collier County building permits, all required
inspections and certificate of occupancy for all non-permitted
improvements within 60 days of this hearing, or obtain a Collier
County demolition permit, all required inspections, certificate of
completion within 90 days of this hearing. Failure to comply with one
of these options will result in a $200 a day fine for each day any
violation remains.
Respondent must notify code enforcement that the violation has
been abated and request the investigator to come out and perform a
site inspection.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Could you place that on the
overview for us, please.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Is it possible to have four units on this
property?
MR. PAUL: No. It's zoned single-family.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Then obtaining permits for this structure the
way it stands is probably --
MR. PAUL: Not going to happen.
MR. LEFEBVRE: -- not possible.
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April 26, 2007
So in all respect, we could probably get rid of that portion of it
and just having a demolition permit, correct?
MR. PAUL: Correct.
MR. PONTE: Or restoring.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right. Well, demolition of the walls that
were constructed is what the demolition would be. Not of the
structure but --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Demo of all non-permitted
improvements.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right.
MR. KELL Y: May I point out to the board the safety hazard that
may exist here, due to the number of occupancy, number of
occupancy potentially in the building versus the square footage of the
home. Taken to the fact that since there's been no inspections on the
improvements, we don't know egress, we don't know fire safety,
electrical, plumbing.
Maybe 90 days for a demo, which was suggested by county,
might be too long.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Have you been able to ascertain if all these
units are currently occupied?
MR. PAUL: There's no one living in this residence. It's vacant.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Is it secured?
MR. PAUL: Not really. Well, all the doors are shut, but there
are no locks on the doors or anything. They've removed all of them.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That makes a different story.
Thank you.
MR. LEFEBVRE: What time frame would you be looking at?
MR. KELL Y: Well, if there's nobody occupying the place, then
we can probably put in the agreement that no one will occupy it until
the improvements that were made are abated, removed.
MR. LEFEBVRE: How about securing it in a shorter period of
time and maybe giving 60 days for the removal of all? So maybe
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April 26, 2007
within seven days secure structure.
MR. PONTE: Yeah, I think that is --
MR. LEFEBVRE: I think that's probably the first and foremost
item that we should be addressing.
MR. DEAN: I agree.
MR. KELLY: Agreed.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Let me see. Re-crafting this.
How about respondent will receive -- do you want to do just a
straight 45 days for demolition? Receive permit and demolish all non-
permitted improvements within 45 days of this hearing or a $200 fine
will be -- will result if the violation remains?
And then within seven days, number two -- or number one.
Number two let's say within seven days the structure must be secured.
And if that is not attained, then a $200 fine.
MR. PAUL: Okay, yes.
MR. LEFEBVRE: And also, the respondent must notify code
enforcement investigator when a violation has been abated to conduct
a final inspection to confirm abatement.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can we also put in there to
remain unoccupied within that -- after it's been secured, you know,
within the seven days and to remain unoccupied?
MR. KELLY: Well, if! may, if it's a single-family dwelling and
there was only one family living in there and it was rented to only one
unit owner or renter, would we be allowed to not allow them
occupancy?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: There's nobody in there right
now, he said.
MR. LEFEBVRE: How about if the unit may not be rented out
by more than one family, or--
MR. KELLY: Never mind, strike that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: No, because we don't know what
the safety issues are.
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April 26, 2007
MR. KELL Y: If we have the latitude to do that, then yeah, let's
not allow anyone in there.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can we do that, Jean?
MS. RAWSON: Well, ifthere's no one in there now. I don't
know if there are safety issues to prohibit one family from living there.
MR. LEFEBVRE: How about putting in there the residency may
not be occupied until all violations have been abated, at which time no
more than one family can live in the residence.
MS. RAWSON: But you're asking him to demolish it.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Demolish whatever improvements.
MR. DEAN: Just the walls.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The improvement. Because he's
built walls inside.
MS. RAWSON: Right, I understand. Okay. So what you're
saying is that nobody can reside there until the violation is abated.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Abated and been inspected.
MS. ARNOLD: Maybe it would be helpful to include language
for him to restore the property to --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Its original condition.
MS. ARNOLD: Exactly. Because it was originally permitted as
a single-family home.
MR. LEFEBVRE: So 45 days to restore it to its original
single- family residence and then also to add to that that it shall not be
rented out or lived in, period -- I don't want the owner to come in and
live there -- until it has been restored to its original condition.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And secured.
MR. LEFEBVRE: And secured.
MR. KELLY: I have another question, real quick. I'm sorry,
George.
MR. PONTE: I was just talking on the matter of securing the
property. If it's not easy to communicate with the owner, then telling
him that he's got seven days is like whistling in the wind.
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April 26, 2007
But I think if we could craft something that simply said that the
respondent is directed to secure the property within seven days and if
that not being done, the county will take the appropriate measures to
secure the property at the cost of the respondent.
MS. ARNOLD: I was going to make that very suggestion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I amend my motion, too. If Jean's getting this
all down.
MS. RAWSON: I'm trying.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I know I talk fast, so --
MR. KELL Y: The other question is if he added a window or two
or maybe an interior wall. But yet a single-family residence, you can
have an added wall, you can create another room, as long as you have
the permits and the approvals by county.
So to go back to the original building design or --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The way he has restructured this,
he has at least three different units within one single-family dwelling.
I believe he needs to be directed to go back to a single-family
residence.
MR. KELLY: Very good.
MS. ARNOLD: And I just want to clarify that Mr. Kelly is
correct, he can build walls, but the unit has to flow together. You
have to be able to go from one room to the other. What he's done is
blocked it off so you're unable to do that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So we're just telling him he has to
be able to go back to a single-family dwelling.
MR. KELL Y: But if we don't put number one back in there as
stated originally by county, we're just telling him to demolish the
improvements. And I'm wondering if that gives him the latitude to
keep maybe one or two of those walls as long as he puts some kind of
flow-through to open it back up. If we say go back to the way it was,
that's the original site plan that was -- you know, how the house was
built.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That's currently the only thing
that's permitted. All right, so you're saying that ifhe were to obtain
building permit --
MR. PAUL: Correct, he could probably keep some of his wall.
MR. LEFEBVRE: And to get the permit approved, he'd have to
have obviously natural flow. But he's added kitchens. Has he added
bathrooms?
MR. PAUL: Yes, he has.
MR. LEFEBVRE: So, I mean, all those improvements --
MR. DEAN: You cannot occupy the property until you have the
proper permits.
MR. KELLY: Until it's passed the C.O. One way or the other.
Michelle brings up a great point. You know, he is allowed to
build a wall, as long as it's permitted and approved.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I agree.
Keep working.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I'm sorry.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: How about obtaining Collier
County building permits and all required inspections with a certificate
of occupancy, or return it to the original permitted--
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay. I guess I'll amend my original motion
and stay with the 45 days. And--
MR. MARTIN: Bring the structure up to compliance with
single- family regulations.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And then number two would be
to secure the dwelling within --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Seven days.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Seven days, or have the county
secure the dwelling.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Um-hum.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And costs go to the respondent.
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April 26, 2007
MR. LEFEBVRE: Correct.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Then he still has to notify the
code enforcement officer when it's done.
Is that your amendment -- or your motion?
MR. LEFEBVRE: That is my motion, amended a couple of
times.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do I hear a second?
MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. ARNOLD: I just had a question about operational costs. I
didn't recall hearing anything about that.
MS. RAWSON: 366.67.
MR. LEFEBVRE: With operational costs also included.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do we need to revote on that
then?
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion to amend my --
MR. DEAN: Motion to add.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Motion to add operational costs.
MR. DEAN: 366.67.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do I hear a second?
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
MR. KELL Y: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We will get this down, guys, we
promIse.
I think we're done with all of the hearings, however. So we move
into old business. Request for reduction of fines. Michelle?
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, you should have received a package from
Daisy --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Arrazcaeta.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. And she's requesting reduction or
abatement of fine. If they're here, if they could speak to that?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Sure.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MR. ARRAZCAET A: Would the board like me to start?
MS. ARNOLD: Let me just state for the board that in this
particular case we've already imposed fines. And I think that there is a
question about the notice that was provided. It was sent to another
address, but they can speak to that. And so they're asking to make
modifications to what's already imposed.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. I'm going to go ahead and
let the investigator speak first, just to give us an overview, call us back
to mind what the case was.
MR. BONO: Investigator Bono, Collier County Code
Enforcement.
I actually inherited this case from a previous investigator. And I
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April 26, 2007
think the reduction of fines needs to be considered. There were some
delays in permitting, as well as, as Michelle stated, there was an
incorrect communication to another address, as well as Ms. Arrazcaeta
did provide documentation that there was a sickness in the family as
well. She had provided that to us, and under those factors I would ask
that you consider a reduction of fines.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, thank you.
MR. ARRAZCAETA: Well, in the beginning, you know, when
we bought the property, I know that it's our fault. We didn't know that
the problem was there, you know. As soon as we get notified about
the problem, we tried right there, you know, to begin to fix it.
There was a problem of distance, because we live in Miami to
find here an architect, the engineer, the people to make the plans, they
took too long.
But we -- by May 31 st, we present the permits. Then we come
several times and talk to Ms. Petrulli, and she said that, you know, that
we didn't end we cannot do anything. But we come like at five, six
times. One of them my wife come and she has to take to the hospital
by the rescue. Then we have our teenage daughter, you know, she get
pregnant, left the school. And we have a lot of personal things.
We know the problem, and we try to resolve as soon as was
possible. But the frame time was not enough to do it.
But that one, you know, I just -- and we are working. We are
having in this moment problem with the property because we rent to
the people, we have to evict. They living nobody on the property.
It's possible now we have to begin to clean again, because I seen
that the property now where inspected is maybe is not in good shape.
We have to pay the water. We have been, you know, paying the
architect, the engineer. You know, we have to had a lot of expenses
trying to resolve the problem. It was a problem that we are
responsible. We didn't create it. Because at the time when we bought
the property, we make a loan with the bank. But the company, I seen
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April 26, 2007
that they didn't do, you know, the right job to check everything well.
And then we just inherit the problem.
But that one, you know, I just like that you take in consideration,
you know. And then, you know, remove the -- the fine because the
problem is already resolved and inspected.
THE COURT REPORTER: May I have your name, please.
MR. ARRAZCAETA: My name is Jose, and my last name is
Arrazcaeta. A-R-R-A-Z-C-A-E-T-A.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So basically your wife had an
illness, your daughter had an issue, and you had a time -- additional
time needed for your permitting, et cetera, in order to get this
accomplished, correct?
MR. ARRAZCAET A: Correct. And even that one, the 31 st that
we gave the permit to the city, you know, to try to correct, the permit
was not approved till September the 19th.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Till September 19th?
MR. ARRAZCAET A: Yes.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
Any other questions from the board?
MR. KELLY: I had one. Investigator?
MR. BONO: Yes, sir.
MR. KELLY: Right now they're faced with 17,000 and change.
What would be your recommendation of adequate abatement or
reduction?
MR. BONO: I would go with half at this time given the issues
that they have encountered. If the board, you know, sees to reduce
that further, then that would be your call.
I would agree with his testimony. And again, we're not here to
readdress the case at this point in time. Everything he said, you know,
certainly from a personal issue does go with what we have in our
narratives here.
So again, moving forward, my recommendation would be to
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April 26, 2007
consider the reduction, half at this point in time. What I'm saying and
I'll leave it up to the board to move it further or upward.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And they actually didn't get the
permit until the 19th?
MR. BONO: Yes, absolutely. They are in compliance. The
permit was in spec. status for quite some time. I don't know why.
Again, there were permitting issues that did crop up during the time of
this case. And then finally it did go to a C.O. status and then I was
there to issue an affidavit of compliance.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
MR. LEFEBVRE: When did it go into C.O. status?
MR. BONO: November.
MR. ARRAZCAETA: November the 20th.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Is when the --
MR. BONO: And the affidavit of compliance was issued on
November 22nd. So that would certainly culminate with that date.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Michelle, just for -- because I
don't have a calculator with me, can you tell me how many days it
would be from September 19th to November 20th?
MR. KELL Y: Can I also add that when the permit was secured,
it took them one month to make all improvements and get the
inspections passed, which was less than the time that was originally
allotted on the original stipulated agreement.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I just wanted to start with a dollar
figure.
MS. ARNOLD: What was the date, September what?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: 19th.
MR. BONO: Actually, the permit was in ready status on
September 18th of 2006. And I was monitoring that permit for it to be
issued for CL status.
In retrospect, they would have to pick up the permit and pay for it
for it to go into an issued status. The fact that it's in ready status pretty
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April 26, 2007
much means nothing until it's been paid by the respondent, and then
obviously the action that needs to be further taken with that permit.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: When did you pick up and pay
for the permit?
MR. ARRAZCAET A: We have some person that he pick it up,
because we left the money and pay. There was a Maria that was the
one. But I think that that one was taken almost right there. I think that
was in the -- almost in the -- not the same day, the other day, you
know she--
,
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: On the 19th?
MR. ARRAZCAET A: Yeah.
MS. ARNOLD: Sixty-one days.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Sixty-one days? So at $100 a
day, that would be 6,110, correct?
Do we have any other thoughts?
MR. MARTIN: I would reduce the -- instead of half, I would
even reduce it another half. Sixty-one days at maybe $50 a day, due to
circumstances that these people have went through, and they complied
so quickly to it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So the 6,100 down to half of
that?
MR. MARTIN: Three thousand.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: 3,050.
MR. DEAN: It's still a lot.
MR. PONTE: I agree with my colleague, but it does raise a
question in my mind, in any event, the way we're going. Is there
really truly a need for a fine of any kind?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'll get the input from the county.
Michelle? What are your feelings?
MS. ARNOLD: For this particular case?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yes.
MR. PONTE: Yes, sure.
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April 26, 2007
MS. ARNOLD: I'm leaving it to the board. It's at your will.
You determine the fine amount. We've asked for the operational costs
of $272.96.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So you wouldn't be --
MS. ARNOLD: And it's already been paid.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: You wouldn't object (sic) if we
dismiss the fine altogether then?
MS. ARNOLD: I wouldn't have any objection.
MR. BONO: Neither would 1.
MR. PONTE: I make a motion we dismiss the fine and the
respondent pay -- has already paid operational costs. So there is
nothing other to do.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do I hear a second?
MR. KELLY: I second it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MR. ARRAZCAET A: Thank you very much.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: You're welcome.
The next one for reduction of fines is Board of Collier County
Commissioners versus Calexico, Inc.
MS. ARNOLD: This is also a request by the respondent for a
reduction of fines. And this -- these fines have also been imposed.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Again, I'll start with the
investigator first and then we'll move to you.
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April 26, 2007
MR. KEEGAN: This case was heard on July 26th -- I'm sorry,
August 24th, 2006, in which the Code Enforcement Board found the
owner in violation and ordered to obtain permits within 30 days and to
get a C. O. within 60 days after issuance, which the respondent did
sign the stipulation agreement.
The permit was applied for November 15th, 2006, approved
11/21/2006, issued, 11/22/06, and C.O.'d 12/13/2006.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Mr. Calexico (sic), why do you
feel we should reduce your fines?
MR. OSORNIO: I have Mr. Coleman speak for me.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. COLEMAN: My name is Robert M. Coleman, Jr. I'm a
CPA at Immokalee.
Santos Osornio has hired an attorney, Patrick White, to come and
gather these facts, and he asked us to come before the board and
request to be rescheduled for next month. His schedule would not
allow him to be here today, he's out of state. And there are
circumstances that he needs to organize, along with Jackie Williams,
who was the contractor involved in this case who used to be one of the
board members.
He did the work, he did the permitting. Jackie Williams told me
that he didn't feel that there was even a permit required in the
beginning. There was a lot of confusion going on.
Santos has a speech impediment. He's afraid of this board. He's
trying to do everything he can in his power. He resorted to an
attorney to speak for him. He'd like just a continuation to get the truth
out and get this thing resolved as quickly as possible. He has no
problem with any kind of operational costs. The fines he had a
problem with.
MS. ARNOLD: I believe Bendisa can provide information to the
board regarding this request.
This request came in by Mr. Santos, and he requested this
April 26, 2007
specific date. We weren't provided information with anything
regarding an attorney until last week. Or was it this week?
And the information that Mr. Coleman is bringing up with regard
to the violation is not the issue at hand. It's -- what needs to be
determined is what mitigating circumstances prevented them from
complying with your order.
And as the investigator pointed out, Mr. Santos signed a
stipulation. And if you look at the information, there wasn't any delay
on the county's part with regard to getting this permitting done, it was
more on the respondent's side.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Jean?
MS. RAWSON: Well, I think he asked for a motion to continue.
So I think you have to deal with his motion to continue first so that he
could have Mr. White here.
And then after you vote on whether or not to continue it or not,
you know, then we'll get into the evidence. And I'll be happy to go
through the mitigating stuff with you.
MR. KELL Y: Sheri, I have a question. If facetiously we were to
deny the continuance and we continued to impose the fines, is there a
way for him to come back again with counsel, or once we decide no,
we're not going to reduce or abate the fines that's it? Is this his only
shot?
MS. RAWSON: He's already been fined. His fines are
continuing, you know, no matter what. So he's in compliance. So
they are what they are. And, you know, I don't know that he's
precluded from not coming back.
MR. KELLY: The only reason why I say that is because, to the
board, there is a time to bring motions for continuance, and that time
was earlier in the meeting on our agenda. This is kind of last minute.
There was no notice to staff.
I think we could hear what his arguments may be, and whatever
happens, happens. And what I'm looking for is an answer as to
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April 26, 2007
whether or not if his attorney's available at a later date, maybe he can
bring it back and request a reduction or --
MS. RAWSON: Well, if you hear it, if you hear the motion for
reduction or abatement of fines today, you're going to make a
decision. So I think that's going to be res adjudicate.
MR. KELL Y: And that's it.
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Also, just a question. Would we
be giving him his due process ifhe's asking to have an attorney
represent him and we don't?
MS. RAWSON: Well, that's a very interesting legal question.
I'm sure his attorney will argue one way and the county attorney will
argue a different way.
Obviously you are correct, that it should have been brought to
our attention sooner because we hear the motions to continue first.
I will say that this is not the first time somebody comes up on an
order to impose fines and say I want an extension of fines or I want a
continuance. It actually happened last month.
So I think you have to rule on the motion to continue first.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MR. KELLY: Mr. Coleman?
MR. COLEMAN: Can I make a comment? I don't know if this
is permitted or not.
On April the 12th, you sent a fax over to the county asking for a
continuance. I talked on the telephone to Michelle Arnold a few days
after that asking, because of the circumstances, let him have a chance
with his attorney to come back and put this in a proper perspective.
You assumed it wasn't in context. It was in context. Whether it
was legal or the procedure was met, I don't know. But he did it in
good faith.
MS. ARNOLD: No, the discussion that I had with Mr. Coleman
was about the process. And we also were discussing a negotiated
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April 26, 2007
amount. And Mr. Coleman indicated to me that Mr. Santos would be
paying that amount and proceeding to this hearing. And--
MS. BARNETT: Can we see the fax?
MS. ARNOLD: There was no discussion about Mr. White
representing Mr. Santos while we spoke.
MR. COLEMAN: That's true about Mr. White, that telephone
conversation.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can we put the fax on the
overhead?
MR. PONTE: Thank you.
MS. RAWSON: Procedurally this is his request. And so he can
either go forward on his request or not go forward on his request. You
don't have to, you know, grant him a motion to continue. It's not the
county's motion, it's his motion.
And so if he wants to take it off the agenda, he's got that right.
You don't have to agree or disagree.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So he can just take it off the
agenda?
MS. RAWSON: Well, he can, it's his motion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So the county has no latitude in
it.
MS. RAWSON: Well, I'm sure they'd like to see it go forward,
but it's his motion, it's not the county's motion.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't particularly understand what the
procedure is on this one. I don't think he's got the right to do it
anyway.
But the way I see it is this way: He can go forward and ask you
for the reduction, okay, but ifhe wants the continuance, then what he's
really saying is I'll come back later, in which case he withdraws his
motion at this point in time for you to reconsider. And if and when he
comes back with counsel, at that point in time he can come before you
and make another motion and you can decide whether to hear it or not.
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April 26, 2007
There's nothing to continue is what I'm saying.
MS. RAWSON: I agree.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Apparently he is asking to --
would he like to withdraw his request for a reduction of fines?
MR. COLEMAN: We're not attorneys. We don't know this--
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I understand.
MR. COLEMAN: --legal process at all. We--
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm asking you a question.
MR. COLEMAN: -- just want to get to the truth and get this
addressed.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm asking you a question.
MR. COLEMAN: That's all.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm asking you a question.
MR. COLEMAN: Yes.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Would he like to come back with
his attorney? And if he does, would he like to request to have his
reduction of fine removed off the agenda?
MS. RAWSON: Today's agenda.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Today's agenda.
MR. COLEMAN: He'd like it removed from today's agenda and
get a chance to have his attorney to address this very quickly and
without waiting the board's time and be done with this.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, thank you.
I guess in that case we just withdraw it.
MS. RAWSON: And it doesn't require a vote.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And he'll have to come back with
the attorney's date to request the reduction of fine.
MS. RAWSON: He'll have to file another motion. And maybe
his attorney will file a motion using our form and, you know, spell out
all of the reasons for the motion.
MS. ARNOLD: The time frame doesn't apply anymore?
MS . RAWSON: Yes, it does. It's in the rules.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So is he going -- in other words,
does he have any time left?
MS. RAWSON: I don't think there's a time limit.
MS. ARNOLD: For a request?
MS. RAWSON: If you look at your rules, Article 10, Section 1.
Section 6 prohibits him from filing a new motion once you've heard it.
But I don't see a time limit.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So if we were to hear it today,
then he wouldn't be able to refile.
MS. RAWSON: He would not. His appeal time's gone.
Because you have to appeal within 30 days.
But Section 6 says if you -- you can't rehear it once you make a
decision on a previous motion for reduction of fines. But I'm looking
at Section 1 about all the things that you need to allege. But I don't
see a time limit in Section 1. And I'll bet this is not something we
discussed at the workshop.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It's not. But it might be
something we need to make a note of.
MS. ARNOLD: I'm wondering, because I recall a time frame of
like 20 days or 30 days.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: If it's not there, though, that's the
ones that we voted in.
MS. ARNOLD: I'm looking at the ones that we have already
adopted. I don't see a time frame.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So ifthere's no time frame, then
just if he withdraws it then he can make another motion with your
attorney to request to come back.
MR. COLEMAN: Does that mean we're allowed to tell the
attorney to get this case back next month and petition as soon as
possible?
MR. PONTE: Or whenever.
MS. RAWSON: Well, I think that all requests need to be in a
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April 26, 2007
reasonable time.
MR. PONTE: Yes.
MR. COLEMAN: Mr. Osornio wants to get this thing done as
quickly as possible. It's making him sick.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I am sure.
Yes, that is what we understand.
MR. COLEMAN: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And the date of the next meeting?
MR. DEAN: May 24th.
MS. ARNOLD: May 24th.
MS. RAWSON: May 24th. But Mr. White would have to go
ahead and file his motion and send it to Michelle so that he could be
on the next --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Agenda.
MS. RAWSON: -- agenda.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So he needs to get that done
ASAP.
MR. COLEMAN: I'm sure he knows the rules. We'll do that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, thank you.
MS. ARNOLD: Mr. Coleman, I just wanted to note for the
record, we never received this fax. It has a fax number on it that
doesn't go to the county. So do you want your fax back?
MR. COLEMAN: Yes, ma'am.
What is the fax number to your office?
MS. ARNOLD: It's 403-2343.
MR. COLEMAN: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Next we're going to the request
for impositions of fines.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, this case was heard by the Code
Enforcement Board on July 27th, 2006 at which time the board found
a violation to the case. And the order recorded by the board is
attached to and provided to you in your packet.
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April 26, 2007
The respondents have not complied with that order.
At this time we are asking that fines be imposed for items
number one, two and three and four of the order at a rate of $200 per
day for a total of 189 days, which totals $37,800. Additionally, there
is operational costs for 633.22 for a total of38,433.22.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Somewhere when I was reading
through this, Michelle, I put a notation on this. I had a question,
number of days of fines. And I think it has to do with the very last
date, being that the inspector actually inspected it and you're including
that on the 11 th, and you're having the fines go through to the 12th.
Just one day, but --
MS. RAWSON: For the record, we probably ought to mention
the case we're talking about.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm sorry. It's Board of County
Commissioners versus Dalila Grimaldo, CEB 2006-37.
MS. ARNOLD: Are you saying the number of days from
September 26th through April 3rd is not 189; is that what it is?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: There's something about -- said
that --
MS. ARNOLD: January 11th.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Um-hum.
MS. ARNOLD: Oh, that affidavit was -- it shouldn't have been
included in there. It was filed in error. The one that applies is the
second one of non-compliance.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I guess I was having some issues
with this because it was in compliance, not in compliance.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. The investigator shouldn't have filed
that, because compliance had not been obtained.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. But I guess it was
concerning because it said that it was on the 11 th, and then we fined
him through the 12th.
MS. ARNOLD: We're fining through April3rd.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, I guess I'm misreading my
documents somehow.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, the January 11th shouldn't have been
included.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. We've got --looks like the
respondents and also the code enforcement officer. Would you like to
swear them in, Cherie'.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We'll go with--
MR. KEEGAN: Okay. Let me start. July 27th, 2006, the case
was heard before the Code Enforcement Board. They found a
violation. Ordered to pay operational costs of 349.29 and obtain, if
obtainable, valid permits by 8/10/06 and C.O. by 9/25/06, or apply for
a demo. permit by 8/3/06 or a fine of $200 a day will be imposed.
Numerous site visits. Violation still remains.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Ms. Grimaldo, do you
have something to say?
MS. GRIMALDO: Yes. Okay. I don't think I'm going to be
able to talk, but I have a lot of things to say. This is my son,
Candelario.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Candelario. C-A-N-D-E-L-A-R-I-O.
Rodriguez. I guess she's probably not going to hold up to speak. So
I'm her eldest son. Basically what's going on is every since the
hurricane, it knocked my father's business down. He has a terminal
illness right now. He's been fighting for his life for the past seven
years. And every time we -- she gets to the point where they save
enough money to start doing stuff, he falls back in there.
At the beginning of the year she was -- we were starting to go
through demolition and stuff. Instead we were more planning for his
funeral, which was in January. But miraculously he recovered, so he's
back out again. So it's just been a long-going battle with my father's
illness coming into part.
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April 26, 2007
I mean, she's already hired them to do -- basically to remodel or
to build a new business there, which is what my father wants. We've
been there 20 years. I mean, you know, we're known through the
community.
Unfortunately me, myself and my other two brothers, we all have
separate jobs with our separate families and, you know, we can't
always be there, which we would want to.
But unfortunately every time -- obviously she didn't graduate
from high school, but they made a long life working and they finally
paid off that property. In 15 years they fought hard and paid off the
property.
Right now she is in the process of maybe even selling her home
that she's lived in 20 years just to start the process of getting the
permit and paying people to come in and destroy whatever is left of
the business there.
Her thing is now that -- she's got the dilemma either wasting that
money of selling her house either paying you all or starting the
process. That's where we're at right now.
I mean, I've offered for her to move in with me. That's basically
where we're at right now.
Unfortunately that's their only income that they have. She has
found a place where they're willing to rent it to her, but they give her
like 30 days for -- the owner's going to fix up the place and it's an old
body shop that she's willing to transfer over there.
Other than that, I really have nothing else to say. I mean, I --
that's just what she's been going through. And I took a day off today
and came over here, so --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do you have something, the
gentleman behind you?
MR. MORRISON: For the record, my name is Scott Morrison
with Morrison Engineering, and I have been retained to provide a
demolition plan and a civil engineering site plan to be submitted to
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April 26, 2007
Collier County.
I also wanted to apologize, I'm new to the process and they're
very new to the process as far as submitting documents to the board
and requesting the reduction of fine or abatement items.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Does the county hold a position?
MS. ARNOLD: I don't know. I wasn't -- I'm sorry, I wasn't
listening to the whole thing. It sounds like you're going to be
relocating or are you staying on that particular site?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Yes, ma'am, we -- she just got a notice last
week from a friend of hers who has another building. Which in
Immokalee it's kind of hard to find a commercial building to -- you
can't just relocate because there's really nothing there which has also
held up the process.
And she talked to one of her good friends and they're going to
vacate the building. And he has offered her to go ahead and move, the
ability for her to move over there so that she can start the process. I
mean, she obviously was confused.
They issued her an occupational license in November, which she
went to the courthouse thinking that she would just go there. And
they gave her the license, so she kept working. Obviously, you know,
she doesn't really understand the paperwork. I mean, unfortunately.
And she hasn't been really mentally stable as for all the stuff that's
been going on. I mean, the building got knocked down, the hurricane,
my father's been in and out of ICU and everything.
I mean, it's no excuse. Obviously there's no excuse. There's no
reason why we should be excluded from following the laws of the
county, you know. I mean, that's -- I'm not asking for anything like
that.
But right now her only goal is to either -- she's only got a little bit
of money saved up. Because, I mean, these are all the prescriptions
she has to buy for my dad. I mean, he has to take 30 pills a day just to
live. Right now she just wants to use the little bit of money she has to
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April 26, 2007
start the demolition process. But she's like, I have to pay the county.
So then I -- I don't know what I'm going to do. So that's basically
where we're at.
MS. ARNOLD: I guess the board has the ability to give an --
extend the time on their order if -- I guess for her to relocate from the
current property to another location. Once they demolish what's on
that site then they would be in compliance.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I mean, basically she wants you all to -- and
if you all could just help her reducing what she owes right now or
whatever. That's basically her goal right now. Because, you know--
MS. GRIMALDO: Could nobody help me. Not even FEMA.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. I mean, she tried. She always got
rejected.
MR. KELL Y: But, sir, technically right now you don't owe
anything. This hearing is to decide whether or not they are going to
charge you.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Well, see, that's -- that's what I'm saying,
you know. So I--
MR. KELL Y: Michelle, could you explain that again, what
you're talking about extending?
MS. ARNOLD: Your current order gives them until a certain
date to comply. Which has been -- you know, it's passed,
substantially.
I guess you all have the ability to go in and change that date from
September 26th, '06 to whatever date in the future that you feel is
necessary to comply. Then that way no additional fines will accrue. I
don't know how much time they believe it's going to take them to
relocate and demolish.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That was the question I was
going to ask the --
MR. MORRISON: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: -- the engineer.
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April 26, 2007
How long do you think it would take for you to get the
demolition plan to the county and get it approved?
MR. MORRISON: I'm sorry I'm laughing. My business is
located in Labelle now, but I worked in Collier County for four years,
so I couldn't help but laugh when you asked me actually get it
approved.
Preparing the documentation and having it submitted to the
county, I could have that to them within two weeks.
Their time in reviewing it and approving the actual demolition
plan, I would only be guessing at how long it would take to do that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: When were you --
MS. ARNOLD: Can I just ask the engineer a question? Because
the site that we're referring to where they're located now is not a
substantial structure.
Are you having to submit a plan to show how you're going to
remove that structure? Is that what you're thinking that you should be
doing?
MR. MORRISON: Well, in combination with a site
development plan submittal.
MS. ARNOLD: Oh, okay. I guess what I was recommending is
that -- the site plan process is a much longer process. If they're
planning on relocating from their current location to another location,
that's the time period that I would recommend to the board that you
modify your order to reflect, rather than the site planning process.
Because once they actually leave that current site and remove the
makeshift structure that they put on there, they're in compliance. We
wouldn't have to go through the site planning process.
MR. MORRISON: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: See what I'm saying?
MR. MORRISON: Yes, I do.
They will need to go through the site planning process, though,
as far as reconstructing the --
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April 26, 2007
MS. ARNOLD: For reconstruction. But that's a different issue.
MR. MORRISON: But in working with the code enforcement--
I'd like to commend the code enforcement officer for working with
them on that -- it stated that they were required to have a demolition
permit. And that is a documentation -- I would like to specifically cull
out items on there that they need to remove so they fully understand
what exactly needs to be removed, and note those on a site plan to
submit with the demolition permit application.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay. Which shouldn't take long for the county
to approve.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Because basically what we need
them do at this point in order to get into compliance is get the building
demolished properly with the permit. From there you guys can then
go to the re-siting and rebuilding. But that would stop the fines from
accruing and get him into compliance.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I don't like changing our original order. I like
to see people come into compliance and then come back to the board
and ask, or in previous cases today, explain why they were not able to
come into compliance. So to change your order at this point, I'm not
in favor of doing that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: But if we rule on this, as Jean has
pointed out, then we're done. So the only thing we could do is ask
them to re--
MS. ARNOLD: They can come back for a reduction.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: They can come back for a
reduction?
MS. RAWSON: Because if you impose the fines, they always --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. A reduction --
MS. RAWSON: -- have the right to come back for a reduction or
abatement. Or you can turn this into a motion for an extension of
time, which he properly pointed out is a change in your first order.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Right.
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April 26, 2007
And it's been since September of '06. I understand there's a lot of
issues when someone's in the hospital, it takes up your time first.
Having gone through it with my own mother. So I do have empathy
for you there.
I'm going to leave it for more discussion from the board.
MR. MARTIN: Well, they should get a demolition permit and
then come back for imposition of fines and bring that up.
MR. MORGAN: Best thing to do is to demolish the thing and
then come back and ask for a reduction in fines. That includes --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Remember that you have the
right to come back to us for a request for a reduction of the fines after
you've come into compliance.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Okay.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We may say that we're going to
impose these fines today. That means that they're out there. But once
you get into compliance, you need to let us know and you need to ask
for a request to come back for a reduction. Looks like the --
MR. KELL Y: Sheri. I think what Michelle and Jean are
pointing out is if we extend the time of the original order, there
wouldn't be any fines to impose yet. If our intent here is to maybe
possibly reduce them down the road when we extend the time, give
them a few extra days so there is no fines and then they'll just be done,
in compliance. We won't have to see it again.
MR. MARTIN: They need to get a demolition permit, not a site
plan permit. Get it out of the way, get it knocked down and come
back.
MR. KELLY: Unless we impose the fines and makes sure it gets
done.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm afraid to let them off
completely without -- and changing our order, because this has been
hanging out there since September of '06. That's my personal feeling.
I also understand that they have had some issues. And I think this
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April 26, 2007
board is pretty understanding when it comes to that, if they were to
come back. But it's up to the majority of the board.
MR. DEAN: So one nice thing to do is an extension of time, is
what you're considering?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: There are some people
considering an extension of time. There are others that are saying
impose the fine and let them come back for a reduction. And those are
options.
MR. MARTIN: Well, if you give them an extension of time,
they can get the demo permit and then come back then. It would be
reheard.
MR. KELL Y: If they got an extension of time and they did get
the demo permit, they wouldn't need to come back, it would be done.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The problem I have is this has been ongoing.
They've been out of compliance since September and they're coming
to us basically nine months later. If we give them an extension of
time, what is it to say that they're going to actually proceed with the
extension of time?
I feel as a board member we should impose the fines and once
they do come into compliance then come in front of us and then ask
for a reduction or abatement of the fines.
MR. KELLY: Is that your motion?
MR. LEFEBVRE: That would be my motion.
MR. KELLY: I second it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELL Y: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do you understand that?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Not really.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, what we have done is we
have said that these fines do exist.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Okay.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We're telling you and giving you
direction that you need to get the demolition permit and get the
building demolished, even prior to doing your site review, necessarily.
Let's get that done so that you're in compliance.
As soon as you're in compliance, make a request to the board to
come forward again at a meeting similar to this and ask us at that time
for a reduction in the fines that we have imposed. That's where we
will take into consideration all the issues that you've brought up today.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Right. Yeah, I completely understand what
you're telling me.
That is the same thing I was kind of telling her and him. I didn't
know -- he's the one that's rebuilding. I said first let's take the problem
at hand. Let's clean the place out, let's move you out of there, mom.
Let's get the other place settled. Open up the place you have an
income and let's get the demolition permit, take everything out of
there and then -- to show that we're doing something, I completely
understand that with all the --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: You need to work as quickly as
possible with getting those things done. And then again, once you get
that done, come back to us and we will look as reducing the fine that
we just said exists today.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Okay. Thank you.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Also, the fine is still ongoing.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And as long as -- until you get
that done, it's still accruing.
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April 26, 2007
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I understand that. Thank you.
MS. RAWSON: You have to impose the fine.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Oh, we didn't make the -- we had
the motion. We voted on it.
MS. RAWSON: To impose it? Did you?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yeah.
MS. RAWSON: Sorry.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm like --
MS. RAWSON: I was thinking about the extension. Well, we
already imposed it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We didn't do the extension.
MS. RAWSON: I know. We'd already imposed it, so we
probably couldn't have anyway.
MS. ARNOLD: Your motion was to impose.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yes.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right.
MR. PONTE: Correct.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Board of Collier County
Commissioners versus Robert and Cristina Ferris?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, this case was heard by the Code
Enforcement Board on January 25th, 2007, and an order was entered
into for violations of conversion of an existing garage to office space
without valid permits.
The respondents have complied with your order, and they
complied as of March 30th, 2007.
At this time we're requesting that fines be imposed at a rate of
$50 per day for the period between March 23rd, 2007 and March 30th,
2007, which is a total of seven days for 350.
Additionally, operational costs in the amount of $627.90 for a
totalof977.90.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We have both the investigator
and I believe --
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April 26, 2007
MR. FERRIS: Robert Ferris.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Robert Ferris.
So Cherie', if you'd like to swear them in.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Let's start with the investigator.
MR. GOMEZ: Ma'am, this case started--
THE COURT REPORTER: May I have your name, please.
MR. GOMEZ: Carmelo Gomez, Collier Code Investigator.
This started in April 6th, 2006, at which time a complaint came
in that --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Anything that's pertinent to --
MR. GOMEZ: Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Ferris came into compliance. He received the C.O. on the
30th. Let me just double check here. On March 30th, '07. And an
affidavit of compliance was submitted to Ms. Marku, Bendisa. That's
it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Mr. Ferris, do you have
anything?
MR. FERRIS: I think I would respectfully mention two things: I
contacted Mr. Dennis Mitchell, asking him to please review the date
of the 23rd for compliance. He seemed to feel that because February
had fallen in the middle, as I had, reduced my amount 60 days, so he
gave me an extension until the 26th for finishing.
I do realize that I went past that, did not finish appropriately on
time. Though it was not significant, there was a little bit of illness on
the prior weekend, which killed my time to get things finished
appropriately. That would be point number one.
Point number two: Due to the fact that my small business has
basically failed, addressing the fines is extremely difficult for the
family. If I'm not approved for refinancing our home, we may very
well lose the home. So there are financial difficulties that we're
facing. Basically the two points I would like to make to the board's
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April 26, 2007
attention.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Thank you.
Discussion or questions from the board?
MR. KELLY: I'd like to know from county if Dennis did grant
the extension, just to confirm.
And then also, should the 30th be counted, since that's the day it
was confirmed compliant?
MS. ARNOLD: I don't think the 30th is included. Yeah, it's not
included.
MR. KELL Y: And did Dennis grant an extension? Is there any
record of that?
MS. ARNOLD: Unfortunately I was trying to pull up CD Plus to
see the permit information, and it's -- there's an error on the system, so
I can't pull it up. And I don't -- I'm not aware of any extension. I can
call him and ask him.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Would you?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We'll take a five-minute recess.
Come back at 12:05.
(Recess. )
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I will resume the meeting of the
Board of County Commissioners, Code Enforcement Board to order.
And Michelle, do you have a response?
MS. ARNOLD: I did speak with Dennis, and he does recall
having a conversation with Mr. Ferris with respect to the order of the
board.
The hearing was heard on January 25th, and the board granted 60
days for compliance.
And the question was whether or not that March 22nd date that
was included on the order was a full 60 days. And I don't -- I was
getting ready to look at that right now. But I think the conversation
that Dennis had was that we would, you know, give him until the 25th
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April 26, 2007
rather than the 22nd to comply. And his actual compliance was on the
30th.
So there are a couple of days that we could probably play with
with regard to the fines.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: We could take the 30th off for
sure.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, the 30th is not included in that amount.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Three from 30 is seven.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, if you do days, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
30, that's eight days.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: And the computer calculates it for us
automatically the right way.
MR. LEFEBVRE: So he would be down five days.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, if we gave him two more days. So it would
be --
MR. LEFEBVRE: $250. Five times 50.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, that should be easy.
MR. LEFEBVRE: $250.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, do --
MS. ARNOLD: So the total fines would be 877.90.
MR. KELLY: Does county have a position about waiving
anything any further?
MS. ARNOLD: No, we don't.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm kind of leaning towards just
going with operational costs. I think the gentleman tried to come into
compliance as quickly as he could with some of the issues that he had.
MR. DEAN: I agree.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: But that's just my personal
opinion. And I don't normally venture it because I'm the chair, and I
don't want to sway anybody. I want everybody to speak up with their
own feelings.
Page 92
April 26, 2007
MR. LEFEBVRE: And another couple of questions. What's the
typical -- is it 30 days if they have to pay operational costs and
everything? They have a 30-day time frame to pay it, or set up a plan
or --
MS. ARNOLD: It's based on what you all would say. The only
thing in your rules that I just read today is that if you do a reduction of
fines, then they would have 30 days to pay.
MR. LEFEBVRE: That's what I thought I saw.
MS. ARNOLD: So I guess, yes, in this case because you're
reducing fines to nothing other than the operational costs, then he
would have 30 days to pay.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do we have any other
discussion?
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Is it possible to structure the payment of
the operational costs for other than a 30-day time period?
MR. LEFEBVRE: That's what I was going to get towards.
Would that be possible?
MS. ARNOLD: I'd rather, rather than you all--
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Let the county do that.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, that's their job. We don't have anything to
do with operational costs. They have to get with the individual and
discuss that.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay. I make a motion to impose operational
costs only in the amount of627.90.
MR. DEAN: I second the motion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
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April 26, 2007
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. FERRIS: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: The next case is the Board of
County Commissioners and Marlene Santilli.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, and we got--
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: A spiel did everybody get?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, you should have received a very long
e-mail.
And Ms. Santilli originally asked that I call her during the
hearing so that she could speak to you all as well, and has since sent
me an e-mail indicating that she's not going to be available.
I would like to try to contact her anyway to see whether or not
she's available to hear these proceedings before they kind of go on,
okay?
MR. PONTE: Michelle, before you do that, just a question.
How will we verify that that in fact is who we're talking with if we --
MS. ARNOLD: I have spoken to her a lot.
MR. KEEGAN: We know.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Jean, just for clarification, once
someone does an e-mail, e-mail becomes public record, correct?
MS. RAWSON : Yes. It's part of your packet that was
introduced at the very beginning.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. Because in the e-mail she
specially requests that the county only share with us like one or two
lines.
MS. RAWSON: It's in your packet and your packet always
comes into evidence.
MS. ARNOLD: There was just a recording.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So she's not present.
Okay, we'll go ahead and let you get sworn in again.
Page 94
April 26, 2007
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. KEEGAN: Okay. This case --
MS. ARNOLD: Before you go, let me read this.
This case was heard by the board on February 23rd, 2007, and a
violation was found.
If you recall, this was some litter left on this person's property
and there was questions about a police report and that --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That police case was actually on
it.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. And we did get verification from the
police department before, you know, we proceeded.
I think there was some question about the comply by date. We
did get verification. There was no -- they could not find who placed
the items on the property.
In any event, the property is now in compliance and the fines had
accrued -- actually, we've modified it from what's stated on your order
from the March 26th, '07 to April 10th. We changed that to April 6th,
because Ms. Santilli did send me an e-mail indicating that she came
into compliance on the 6th.
So the actual fine amount was $550. The operational costs have
been also modified from what is stated on your order, from $342.26 to
$269.51.
So let me recalculate that for you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: 819.51.
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you. I need one of these. I can't do it by
myself.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Also, I'd just like for the record that Michelle
Arnold did try to get in contact with the respondent and did receive a
voice mail.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It appears that Ms. Santilli is not
real happy with us.
Page 95
April 26, 2007
MR. KEEGAN: No.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And from her e-mail, she's
feeling like she is the aggrieved party because someone's dumped
litter and stuff, and she's the one that's getting in trouble. And she's
tried to comply and now she's being fined. Is that pretty much the
discussion in a nutshell?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I didn't see anything there other
than-- was the factor that there was water on the property originally,
did that come into play with being able to remove some of the debris?
MR. KEEGAN: This case was opened for six months prior to
even the court case, the court hearing. It's been a long time.
There's no excuse, I believe, why those vehicles, boats, cars,
could not be removed.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MR. MORGAN: Was there some question about the property
line where -- I remember seeing an aerial photograph and some
correspondence that said this line was over here or --
MR. DEAN: That's not the one.
MR. KELLY: Jerry, this was the one where there was an open
police investigation.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yeah, it's not the same case as
this. There were some abandoned vehicles on her property.
Okay, any other discussion from the board?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. I'll entertain motions.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion that we impose fines in the
amount of$550 and operational costs in the amount of$269.51 for a
totalof$819.51.
MR. DEAN: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
Page 96
April 26, 2007
MR. KELL Y: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. KEEGAN: Thank you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That concludes impositions of
fines.
And moving into new business, I'd like to say that I think we
need to go back and revisit our rules and regs and put in a time frame.
MS. ARNOLD: I agree.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Not necessarily pertaining to the
particular case that was just here, but for future cases.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, it's not good to have that open-ended that
way.
MS. RAWSON: It seems to me that in the past we did have a
time limit in there.
MR. PONTE: I think so, too.
MS. RAWSON: And I don't know how in our changing of our
rules and regulations it got changed, but I'm sure we did before. And
I'm thinking it's just an oversight. We do need time limits.
MR. PONTE: Was it perhaps when we tried to merge it with the
master's rules that --
MS. RAWSON: It could be.
MS. ARNOLD: No, it actually wasn't in -- I looked at an older
version, the one that was signed. It's not in there either. So I don't
know when it occurred.
I do recall there being some sort of time frame. Whether it was
related to, you know, the whole imposition of fine process as it relates
Page 97
April 26, 2007
into the statutes. There's time frames for --
MR. PONTE: There was definitely something there.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Jean and I both are coming up
with like 45 days was the number that hit us both.
MR. PONTE: There was definitely something there.
MS. ARNOLD: I don't know how it came out, but it's not there.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Well, we need to look at that as
something we need to take care of.
MR. PONTE: Do we do it now or do we do it next year? Is that
-- are we going to live with this for a year or do we do it now?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, the board hasn't -- we have a document
for your signature today.
MR. PONTE: I know.
MS. BARNETT: I thought we had signed it. Some of us have
signed it. No?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Do we have to put this on the agenda to have
that changed, or could we just do a motion now to have it changed for
like --
MS. ARNOLD: I think you can do it. Because we had it ready
last month, but there was a good suggestion to include some language
with regards to the Sunshine laws, and so we've done that. And so
you can handle it the same way as you did the last time before,
actually accepting the rules formally.
MR. PONTE: Ifwe signed it as is today and then want to just
add something at the next meeting, can't we make it an amendment
and just have --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Can we do that?
MS. RAWSON: You could, except that it's kind of like
amendments to the Florida constitution. We can go crazy.
It's a lot cleaner, especially since you haven't signed these, if you
make a motion, if you want to make a change let's do it now. And
then Michelle can bring you next month a clean copy with the
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April 26, 2007
amendment in it and you can all sign it.
MS. ARNOLD: And I can send it ahead of time as well so you
all can see it.
MR. PONTE: I think that's a good idea.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I'm getting good at this.
I'll entertain a motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Should we do it 45 days or 30 days, just like
the appeal period for the hearing? Should we keep it the same, 30
days?
MS. ARNOLD: I'd like to look at the statute to see ifthere's any
guidance there with regards to reduction of fines. If there's -- I know
that there's language in there that speaks to, you know, reduction of
fines, but I don't recall whether or not there was a time frame.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Well, then we can't take a vote today if you
don't know what the time frame is.
MS. ARNOLD: You can. And I could always give you
information over e-mail as well. Because when we bring it back to the
next hearing is when you're going to accept it.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: How about if we have someone
make a motion that says that we will put in the time frame based on --
MR. LEFEBVRE: The state statute.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: -- the state statue.
MS. RAWSON: Ifthere is one.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Ifthere is one.
MS. RAWSON: Ifthere is not one --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: If there is not one, then we will
proceed with "X" amount of days.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion that we insert the verbiage to
reflect state statutes. And if there is no verbiage in there, that the
appeal period would be 30 days.
MS. RAWSON: Technically it's the time to file a motion for
reduction or abatement of fines. Because the appeal period is 30 days
Page 99
April 26, 2007
and that is in all of your orders.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay. So I amend my order.
MR. KELL Y: Should that language be added to the bottom of
the appeal, to the imposition orders?
MS. RAWSON: Yes. Absolutely. It should be right in that
same paragraph where it tells you what the grounds for a motion for
reduction, abatement of fines are. Right probably in that first sentence.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Do I hear a second?
MR. PONTE: I just -- would you give me the rationale for
making it 30 days again as opposed to 45? I personally have always
thought the 30 days is tight.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yeah, I prefer 45 too. But his
feeling was to keep it in a similar --
MR. PONTE: Just for the consistency? I think 30 days is very
tight.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I amend my motion to 45 days, if that would
get a second by you.
MR. PONTE: Absolutely.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay. So we now have a motion
and a second. All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Forty-five days, or unless the
statute states otherwise.
Okay, with that done, do we have any reports or committees?
Page lOO
April 26, 2007
MS. ARNOLD: I do have some other language that I'd like the
board to consider as part of your rules.
And I guess we don't really have to modify the rules to do this, or
the ordinance to do it. We have -- we believe that we're going to need
the ability to subpoena witnesses to these hearings. And the way it's
written currently, we have to bring the -- to the full board and the full
board has to make a decision and the chairman signs.
My question is whether or not the board will relinquish that
authority to the chair person so that in the event we do have witnesses
that we want to subpoena, we don't have to wait a full 30 days before
we have to do that.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: What brought that to light was
they actually asked me to sign the subpoena for someone that was I
believe a former employee or something for a case. And I thought
about it and I remembered we had the one case with the attorney that
was wanting to bring forth I think four or five witnesses and we
actually held up that case till the following month to give him the right
to subpoena his witnesses. And we refused as a board to let him
subpoena Neil Dorrill. And I remembered that just before I -- after,
actually, I had said that I would sign the subpoenas. And I thought,
no, wait a minute, I can't.
MS. RAWSON: The way it's presently written, all of you have
to vote whether or not they can subpoena witnesses.
Now, interestingly enough, the respondent also has to come to
you and have you vote whether or not he can subpoena witnesses.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. And so if we -- if you give the authority
to the chair person, they would just need to file their subpoenas and
she would actually keep them.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So both the respondent and the
county would have equal --
MS. ARNOLD: Absolutely.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That's up to you guys.
Page 10 1
April 26, 2007
MS. RAWSON: It basically saves 30 days.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Yeah.
And I had thought about well, maybe we could do a telephone,
but we can't because we have to be in the Sunshine.
MS. RAWSON: Correct.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So that would have ended that
one, too.
MS. RAWSON: Unless you have our court reporter on the
phone.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Ifwe wanted to do an emergency
hearing by telephone to get --
MS. ARNOLD: And we'd have to notice that as well.
MS. RAWSON: Yes, you would.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: So it's up to you guys. Because
I'm not always going to be the chair.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion that we authorize the chair
person to have the authority to subpoena witnesses?
MS. ARNOLD: To sign --
MR. PONTE: I'm not too comfortable with giving that authority
to one person. So if we could say the -- if you want to say the chair
person and the vice chair? I mean, let's just get a -- just something in
here other than creating a dictatorial kind of I have subpoenaed.
MR. LEFEBVRE: But that would require a meeting, a Sunshine.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Does the special master have the
right to subpoena?
MS. RAWSON: She does. But she is serving as a quasi judicial
officer of the court. And she doesn't have a whole board so she's not
plagued with the Sunshine Law in the same way you are.
MR. KELL Y: Why was it put in there originally to have the
entire board act upon subpoena requests?
MS. ARNOLD: Actually, initially it used to be the clerk. It had
language in there that the clerk would be the one that signs the
Page l02
April 26, 2007
subpoena. And he didn't want it.
MS. RAWSON: In the court oflaw, it's the clerk.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah.
And I think we just amended the rules or the ordinance to include
that it's the board -- we just said the board.
MR. PONTE: Well, just an interesting question. Because the
Clerk is issuing the subpoena on the order of the court.
MS. RAWSON: No.
MS. ARNOLD: No.
MR. PONTE: Not unilaterally.
MS. ARNOLD: No. It was the Clerk of Court.
MR. PONTE: Unilaterally?
MS. RAWSON: Yes. If you want to subpoena a witness to
come to your case in, let's say, the small claims court, you just go to
the clerk to get the subpoenas issued.
MS. ARNOLD: Or you go to a judge or whatever. You don't --
but in our case, it said the Clerk of Courts. It wasn't before a body, it
was whoever is the clerk of court.
MS. RAWSON: But we don't file our orders with the clerk of the
court. So it made no sense.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: And he didn't want to take on
another job that he wasn't really attached to. And I can understand
that. So it fell back on -- at that time we probably just said the board.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It's a matter of signing a piece of
paper that says that you're going to tell this person that they need to be
here.
MR. PONTE: Yes, I know.
MR. MARTIN: I think the motion that Gerald made is a good
motion.
MR. DEAN: I'll second Gerald's motion.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
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April 26, 2007
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. PONTE: Opposed.
MS. ARNOLD: I just want to let you all know that what I'll do is
because the consolidated ordinance is being brought before the Board
of County Commissioners and that is May 8th, just so you all know,
I'll bring this up as an issue as well and see what their feelings are on
it. Okay?
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: And we'll get their blessing.
MS. RAWSON: And obviously because it's not a violation of
the Sunshine Law, the chairman of the board could consult the board's
attorney before deciding whether or not to issue the subpoena.
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: That might be a good point to put
in there with it.
MS. ARNOLD: With consult of the --
MR. PONTE: Yeah, if you put that in and just amend it, I'd say
okay.
MR. DEAN: Too late, George.
MR. PONTE: Oh, no, it isn't. No, it isn't.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: It was voted and passed. But --
MR. PONTE: But I think you can bring it back. We've already
had this discussion. As long as we haven't adjourned, we can bring it
back.
MR. KELLY: You could amend that motion.
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April 26, 2007
MR. LEFEBVRE: I would like to amend that motion with the
language stating that you would consult the -- the chairman would
consult with the board's attorney.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Board's attorney.
I think that would make everybody feel a little more comfortable.
Including the chair at the time.
MR. DEAN: I'll second that motion also.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Okay, all those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Gee, that's unanimous this time.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay. And I just had another item, as I brought
up.
Our June meeting is now scheduled for Friday, June 22nd. And
myself and Bendisa are both going to be attending the FACE
conference from Wednesday through Saturday. So we were hoping
that we could reschedule the meeting to June I 8th, which is the only
available date for this location.
MR. DEAN: The 28th is not available? That's like our fourth
Thursday. I gear everything for the fourth Thursday.
MS. ARNOLD: They actually booted us out of here because the
room wasn't available June 28th. That's why we had to reschedule it.
MS. RAWSON: June 18th is fine for me.
MR. PONTE: Do you happen to know what day it is?
MS. ARNOLD: It's on a Monday.
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April 26, 2007
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Monday.
MR. PONTE: It's Monday? Fine. That works.
MR. DEAN: I'll be at the White Socks game in Chicago.
MS. RAWSON: You think that's an excuse?
MR. DEAN: Well, my grandson's graduating, that's my excuse.
MS. ARNOLD: All right. So the 18th, do you all want to look at
your calendars and --
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Mine's fine.
MR. PONTE: Mine's good.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I just wrote it in. June 18th.
MR. DEAN: You can talk to me then.
MS. ARNOLD: We do have a subpoena that we wanted to
execute in the event. It's for -- and so you all can consider it. It's for
the Coleman case. And it's for an employee -- she's still an employee
of the county, but she's in a different department right now. So it's
Susan O'Farrell, for that particular case.
And I believe we continued that to next month? June, the June
18th meeting.
MR. KELL Y: Because she's not in your department you have to
subpoena her?
MS. ARNOLD: We don't have to.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: But she doesn't have to
necessarily attend.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: I personally don't have an issue
with subpoenaing her, as she was the investigator, right?
MS. ARNOLD: For the bulk of the latter part of the case. We'll
have another investigator and another investigator has gone out. But,
you know, just some of the major testimony is mostly what she's done
rather than the newer investigator.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Somebody want to entertain a
motion for that?
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April 26, 2007
MR. KELL Y: I make a motion that we approve the subpoena.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. KELLY: I have new business. You might have already
planned on saying this. But next Wednesday here in the chambers at
2:30, there's a Sunshine Law review.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Might behoove us all to attend.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, I did send that all to you all, and it's a
very good -- it's nice to be there, rather than submitting your questions
and having them talk about it and reviewing the recording. Just
because you can actually be there interacting with the county
attorney's office. Very good thing for you all to attend, if you haven't
done it in the past. And even if you have in the past, it's --
MR. PONTE: Are there any changes, any significant changes
that would affect, you know, the way we operate?
MS. ARNOLD: I don't think so.
MS. RAWSON: I don't know of any significant changes. They
may -- what I find interesting always is the case law. Things that have
come up and cases involving code enforcement boards.
Unfortunately I can't be there either, but I hope that you'll all
attend and bring me a packet.
MS. ARNOLD: And if you can't, they will be providing -- you
can get a CD or DVD or whatever they call it. Tape.
Page 107
April 26, 2007
MR. LEFEBVRE: I have another quick question, I guess,
regarding e-mails. Do we have e-mails yet for--
MS. ARNOLD: Nope. I haven't got anything from IT. I have
made that request. And, you know, I meant to check that before this
meeting and it slipped my mind. But I will check it again.
And I provide them all your information and I haven't heard back
from them. So I will do that and report back to you.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any other comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: New business? Reports? I'm
waiting for --
MR. DEAN: I'll make a motion to adjourn.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: All those in favor?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. KELLY: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. DEAN: Aye.
MR. MORGAN: Aye.
MR. MARTIN: Aye.
CHAIRWOMAN BARNETT: Any opposed?
(No response.)
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April 26, 2007
******
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order ofthe Chair at 12:37 p.m.
COLLIER COUNTY CODE
ENFORCEMENT BOARD
SHERI BARNETT, CHAIRWOMAN
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
,
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service,
Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham.
Page l09