CLB Minutes 02/21/2007 R
February 21, 2007
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD
Naples, Florida
February 21, 2007
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing
Board in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with
the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson (Absent)
ACTING CHARIMAN: Richard Joslin
Sydney Blum
Michael Boyd (Absent)
Eric Guite' (Absent)
Glenn Herriman
Lee Horn
Ann Keller (Absent)
William Lewis
ALSO PRESENT:
Patrick Neale, Attorney to the Board
Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney
Tom Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer
Michael Ossorio, Contractor Licensing Supervisor
Page 1
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
DATE: WEDNESDAY - FEBRUARY 21,2007
TIME: 9:00 A.M.
W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION BUILDING)
COURTHOUSE COMPLEX
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
DATE: January 17, 2007
V. DISCUSSION:
Memo: Parking/Main Government Complex
VI. NEW BUSINESS:
Alison Josselyn - Review of experience for Fence license.
Robert P. Harris - Review of experience affidavits and credit report.
Brandy Jones (Western) - Request license reinstated without retaking paving exams.
VII. OLD BUSINESS:
VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS:
CLB CASE# 2007-03
James V. Cusimano
D/B/A Cusimano Electric, Inc.
IX. REPORTS:
X. NEXT MEETING DATE:
March 21,2007
3101 E. Tamiami Trail
Naples, FL, 34104
February 21, 2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'd like to call to order the
Collier County Contractor Licensing Board meeting for February 21 st
to order.
Any person who decides to appeal the decision of this board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore,
may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made,
which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the
appeal is to be based.
I'd like to start with roll call, starting with my right.
MR. HERRIMAN: Glenn Herriman.
MR. LEWIS: William Lewis.
MR. BLUM: Syd Blum.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Richard Joslin.
MR. HORN: Lee Horn.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Are there any additions or
deletions to the agenda?
MR. BARTOE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, board members.
For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance
Officer.
Staff has no additions or deletions.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, for the record, Mike Ossorio,
Collier County Contractor Licensing Supervisor.
We do have one discussion topic, if enough time permits. Mr.
Cortez, C-O-R-T-E-Z. He's from Palm Beach. And if time permits,
he would like to address the board.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can we place this at the end of
the meeting, board meeting?
MR. OSSORIO: Yes, just at the end.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you.
I just need a motion to approve the agenda as written.
MR. BLUM: So moved, Blum.
MR. LEWIS: Second, Lewis.
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February 21, 2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second. All
those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Also, need a motion to
approve the minutes from the January 17th meeting.
MR. LEWIS: So moved, Lewis.
MR. BLUM: Second, Blum.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, first and a second.
All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Some discussion we have
regarding the parking garage. We have two memorandums here. One
dated January 25th of2007 to all the advisory board members, which I
assume this is the members that are sitting at this board and other
ones, that originally we were going to be asked to park in the new
parking deck in the brand new garage. However, someone changed
their mind and has given us the right now to be parking back into
advisory board committee spots, which is a much closer walk than the
garage.
MR. BARTOE: Just one of the many perks.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One of the perks.
And our check's still in the mail, right?
MR. BARTOE: Correct.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Just so that we all are aware at
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February 21,2007
this time, we do have our parking facilities back.
And we'll move right along to new business. Looking for an
Alison Josselyn. Would you please come to the podium, please, to be
sworn In.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Ms. Josselyn, would you like
to just give the board an overall view of why you're here today.
MS. JOSSELYN: Yes, sir. I've been a licensed contractor for
garage door installation and service since 1997. In that time under our
license we have been servicing gates and gate openers.
Recently we have decided that we'd like to replace gates as well.
And we've contacted licensing to see if that would be applicable
under our license. They said no, that we would need to apply for a
fence erection license to do so.
I have applied for that license, but it was rejected on the basis
that I don't have 24 months of fence erection experience.
So after some discussion I've come to appeal to see if we could
get that fence erection license, exclusive to just gate replacement, to
what we are experienced in doing and what we intend to do.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You are the license holder for
Garage Doors of Naples?
MS. JOSSELYN: I am, as well as my father, yes, sir.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: What does staff have regarding
this license for qualification? What do they need to have?
MR. OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
This is a particular case that fell through the cracks. I'm sure
she's qualified in all aspects of repairing gates. And under the
exemption of 489, tells us that anything under $1,000 or
inconsequential work or repair work, there's no license requirement.
So I have no problem that she's repairing gates.
She's come across our office. Unfortunately now these gates are
larger and they're complex and they require electrical. So she was
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February 21,2007
going to be hiring an electrician to go onto Page 2 to pull a building
permit.
I don't know, and this is the board's decision, how you feel about
that particular item due to the fact that he or she is going to be subbing
the work out to appropriate licensed contractors, and this gate could be
worth 10, $20,000. That might constitute a general contracting.
I don't know if that's categorized under fencing. When you think
of a fence, the language is pretty ambiguous. In other words, it just
says to erect, install a fence around the perimeter. You know, very
basic.
These gates are getting more complex, so the board -- I have no
problem. Under the ordinance, it does give the contractor licensing
supervisor, which is me, the power to issue a provisional license
restricted only to gates. But it's something that I thought the board
might want to take a look at and authorize me to do so.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: This is something that you
would be willing to do for this company?
MR. OSSORIO: I have no problem. I talked to her at length and
I told her that I would support anything the board will do. But I
thought from the practical standpoint, these gates can cost a lot of
money. These are big community gates that there are life/safety
issues, and a fence license is only a two-hour business and law test.
And you can be subbing the appropriate contractors out. So that's
something that the board will take a look at and make that policy.
MS. JOSSELYN: If I may, we would be more than satisfied to
replace gates only and not replace electric motors. At this point the
work that's been contracted to us and that's brought us to this point is
gates that we've been just repairing receivers and entry devices with,
just radio controls. They've gotten to the point where the aluminum is
corroded and needs to be replaced and it's just the actual gates
themselves that we wish to go forward with.
We've declined all the business that's come our way with
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February 21,2007
replacing the actual motors, because at this point we have no interest
in a limited energy license or anything in that aspect.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So you're talking about the
mechanical portion of the gate, or just the gate itself?
MS. JOSSELYN: We're talking about the actual--
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Actual.
MS. JOSSELYN: -- gate itself.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Piece of hardware.
MS. JOSSELYN: Uh-huh. Which is manufactured by the same
manufacturers that we purchase our doors, coiling doors, all of that
from.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, from what I can see then
it sounds to me like if they can put up garage doors, and I'm sure those
are electrically controlled now, too?
MS. JOSSELYN: Yes, sir.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Basically they're same
principal, right, except one goes up and down and one goes sideways?
MS. JOSSELYN: Correct.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't have a problem with
that. How does the board feel?
MR. HERRIMAN: You mentioned that you were going to do
just replacement. Are you going to install new gates as well?
MS. JOSSELYN: Ifwe were to replace an existing gate, it
would just be the gate only. As far as new gate installations, because
we are not going after a limited energy license, no, we would not be
installing the operators.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Pleasure of the board?
MR. LEWIS: I'm not so sure that we can control what's going to
happen out there in the field. I'm not that familiar with express
permitting service. And all these gates are going to have electrical
service to them. Although it is my understanding that at this point in
time homeowners, builders can get a replacement and hire whoever
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February 21,2007
they want.
Of course we know that all sits in a different set of rules to them,
but that's, you know, neither here nor there.
I've dealt with this company and they are a reputable firm. I've
known her father for years, a wonderful man. And I know that in all
honesty that they're here before the board, as many contractors would
not be.
I would -- I personally would recommend that if there's some
way that we could control the permitting process for them or the
licensing -- I don't know how we can do that, because we're not part of
permitting -- but if there were some way that we could justify saying
okay, limited licensing for the repair and/or replacement of existing
metal gates with no electrical hardware, you know, or with no
electrical service. I don't know how they would do that. But an
electrician would have to pull an electrical permit. And like Mr.
Ossorio said on Page 2 I guess is an express permit for that. But I
don't know if we can lay heavily on the permitting process to govern
that or not.
MR. OSSORIO: Our system works in tandem with the
permitting process, so if we do issue a restricted license -- which I
have no doubt, I think that's the direction, I think it's the right call to
make -- that's simple enough. We red flag it, the permit people pick
up on it, they read the comments.
And like you said, this company's been around forever. This
company knows what they need to do. I don't think we're ever going
to have to police this company.
MR. LEWIS: So what that does do, putting Garage Doors of
Naples aside, and looking into the future now just a little bit, are we
going to open up the door and another floodgate that we're going to
have to open up another licensing avenue?
MR. BARTOE: I do not see that. Ifit requires an electrician
when they apply for a permit, they'll be notified that they'll have to get,
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February 21,2007
an electrician on this permit.
MR. LEWIS: And what about future replacements for others,
people that are doing the same thing? Because I know this is not the
only company in town doing it. Some notification process to them?
MR. BARTOE: Same thing.
MR. LEWIS: They'll have to apply for a restricted license; is
that -- instead of going for a full bore --
MR. BARTOE: Yeah, or a licensed fence company can do it.
They don't need to get the restricted license that she is applying for.
MR. LEWIS: And they too are restricted, they have to have an
electrician there to install?
MR. BARTOE: Yes.
MR. OSSORIO: One of the things that the board -- actually,
when the board makes a determination we will apply that to the
ordinance. And it does give the contractor licensing supervisor
leeway of restricting the license under the code. So what you do
today, we will apply tomorrow.
MR. LEWIS: I say let's do it.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Any other questions or
any other thoughts?
MR. BLUM: Well, I just want to -- I have some reservations. I
too am well aware of the company's long standing of professionalism
in the community, and I have every respect for the work that they do
and their background.
I don't know, I guess I'm just a little bit -- I have reservations
about opening up another avenue with exceptions. It seems like
there's an awful lot of that going on. And I prefer to kind of leave the
status quo. I'm not saying no, I'm just expressing reservations to the
idea.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I can understand your
reasoning behind it. Because if we are going to be issuing a license
that's, like Bill said, something that's very hard to control.
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February 21, 2007
But again, through Mr. Ossorio's comments, you know, if it's
going to be controlled through licensing and permitting, then I can't
think of a possibly better company to give a start to to do this but --
MR. BLUM: And once -- and this is going to become known
very quickly. There are many garage door opener companies in
Naples and there are many, many gated communities with gates that
are going to have the same situations. And I see this as an ongoing
trend.
We -- it may not come before us anymore, but I think it's the
potential for other companies maybe not being quite as reputable, now
that we've set this standard, it leaves us open to other problems with
other companies down the road in the future. I'm reluctant to go ahead
with it, to be honest with you.
MR. NEALE: Just as a point to the board, the board can set it so
that any license that is seeking this exception would have to come
before the board for a board review as opposed to being an
administrative act.
MR. BLUM: Basically, we're looking favorably upon this
because of all our experience and knowledge of these folks' reputation.
I have a feeling that if it was anybody else, almost anybody else, that
we wouldn't be quite so favorably inclined towards this right now.
And when I start thinking that way, I say to myself, then maybe I
shouldn't be thinking that way with these folks.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Neale, do you have a part in your notes there
where the board could be guided as to the waiving -- I think we're
being asked to waive the experience for the fence license?
MR. NEALE: What the board could do is make a specific
finding as to this -- as to this company as to why it is being granted a
limited exception for a limited restricted license.
Now, you could make that finding and I could include that in the
record in the order granting that exception.
MR. BLUM: I just have a problem with selective
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February 21,2007
accommodations for selective people. It's like when the cop pulls you
over and you say what about the first three guys that went through,
why are you stopping me? W ell. You know? So I have some real
reluctance here.
MR.OSSORIO: Well, Mr. Blum, that's a good analogy, but
unfortunately I don't think that's the case here. We didn't seek her, she
seeked (sic) us.
MS. JOSSELYN: The problem is, is that there is not a
gate-specific license in Collier County to be had, nor is there a specific
state license. If there were that would be what we would be obtaining
and we would meet those qualifications.
The problem is, is that it falls under fence erection. That is where
I am asking for consideration.
And in good faith, we have no intentions of installing fences in
Collier County or taking away from anyone that does. We want to
continue doing what we are doing, what we are licensed and
experienced doing. We just want to be able to have the ability to
replace the actual physical gates for our customers.
As we are the, you know, licensed manufacturer representative
for certain manufacturers that they sell gates, we're just not selling that
product because our license prohibits us from doing so.
MR. BLUM: I can understand the customer, from the customer's
perspective. You've been servicing it, you're making them work and
when they call you go out and fix it, and now I need a new one. Well,
let me have the guy that's been making it right put the new one in, and
I do understand that part as well.
MR. LEWIS: And part of the situation that -- with weighing my
comments and thoughts on the subj ect is I looked up in our Ordinance
1.6.3.19 is a fence erection contractor, and if I may read.
A fence erection contractor requires 24 months of experience and
a passing grade on a two-hour business and law test and means any
person who is qualified to install, maintain or repair fencing or
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February 21,2007
decorative prefabricated walls on grade.
It actually doesn't say that they can install gates either. So, you
know, we have a situation where we have a product that we have
failed to control. So in that we need to, you know, make it as simple
as possible and yet still be in control of the licensing requirements.
And I think personally again, like I said, I think this company and
there are several others in this town that I wouldn't have any problem
recommending the same situation for. With her experience, I would
recommend that we approve a restricted license.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think absolutely right.
And Mr. Ossorio, can you tell us, are there any actual licenses
that really do allow this work to be done?
MR. OSSORIO: There are several. Building contractor,
residential contractors, general contractors. Those are the --
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But not a specialty contractor
or someone on the side of --
MR. BARTOE: A fencing contractor does install the gates.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can install electric gates.
MR. OSSORIO: Probably aluminum contractor, if you actually
read the ordinance and try to apply that to the particular trade. It
depends.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It's very vague.
MR. NEALE: If it's an aluminum -- ifit happens to be an
aluminum gate.
MR.OSSORIO: If it's aluminum.
MR. BLUM: We really will not be able to deny any other garage
door company the same --
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think we can put a restriction
where we can base it on a one-on-one situation. If they have to come
before this board, I think at the time where they come here, if we don't
feel that they are qualified, that restriction could apply. I mean, we're
basing it on a one-on-one company at the moment to allow an old
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February 21, 2007
company or a qualified company to do the work with a restriction
behind it.
If another company out in the world wants to come in before us
and ask for the same license, then we would take the same
qualifications and the same restrictions and apply it to them or maybe
deny them. I feel it could be done that way.
Pleasure of the board? We need a motion. If not, I'll make a
motion that we approve the packet.
MR. LEWIS: Can you elaborate on that for us?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: With the restrictions -- maybe
Mr. Neale could help me with the wording behind it. Restricting the --
MR. NEALE: Yeah, that the applicant be granted a restricted
fence erection license, restricted solely to the installation of gates. And
that any further -- any additional licenses for other applicants will also
have to come before this board for review.
MR. LEWIS: And at this time we're just waiving the experience
for that license.
MR. NEALE: Right. And it is solely a waiver of experience for
that license.
MR. LEWIS: I second the motion.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Neale, just to make sure we clarify, this is
only on new construction? This is not new, or is this preexisting
construction?
MR. BLUM: Preexisting, I would think.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Preexisting construction,
correct.
I've got a motion and a second. All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
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February 21,2007
All opposed?
(No response.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Passes 5-0. Congratulations.
MS. JOSSELYN: Thank you.
MR. BARTOE: I have something to add, please. Anyone who is
approved here today, please do not come in our office today to obtain
that license. I have your packet here. The office help does not have it.
So any time after today. Thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Next case on the agenda is
Robert P. Harris. Would you come before the podium, please.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Good morning, Mr. Harris.
MR. HARRIS: Good, morning, sir.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Would you please give us a
quick overview of the reason why you're before us today.
MR. HARRIS: I'm here to try and get a finish carpentry license,
trim license. Right now I hold one in Lee County. It was on a
six-month probationary period due to the credit problems that I had, as
you all can see.
And I go back in front of them in March. Which on the record
you see National Foundation I've been paying since September each
month on a regular basis. And that's all they wanted to see that was
done for the six months. And it's continued to go on through that.
And I've already got some companies that would like for me to
do work in Collier County, but I cannot do it as of yet. I do their work
in Lee County right now, but nothing down here.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: This amount of money that's
being paid, you've been doing this since September, is what you're
telling me?
MR. HARRIS: That is correct.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: To pay back, I assume, a lot of
these debts.
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February 21, 2007
MR. HARRIS: Every one of them that's on there, except for the
one for schooling to the government. I paid 3,000 last year, then
they'll get more this year at tax return time. Because that was
something I had to pay individually, and plus I paid them 100 bucks a
month. That couldn't go on the record with National Foundation,
because it's a government entity, so I had to pay that myself.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Staff, what's the requirements
for a finish carpentry license? What does he have to do for Collier
County?
MR. OSSORIO: Well, first you have to pass the exam. It's a
three-hour test, and a two-hour business and law exam.
He has taken a little more tougher exam over in Lee County.
And we don't have like a reciprocity, but we let them apply for a
license, show experience, they have to have 24 months experience as a
finish carpentry, which is just trim work, cabinet work.
So it's not a carpentry contractor, it's a finish carpentry, which is
the same thing as a cabinet license that we have.
MR. BLUM: What exactly are we being asked to waive here?
I'm a little confused.
MR. OSSORIO: He has some credit issues. Unfortunately, in the
statute if he has a judgment or a lien, anything, it will get referred to
the licensing board. And he has a credit issue, and this is what -- I
think in your packet it does tell you that he's -- on the cover letter it
tells you why he's applying. Why is he here in front of you is because
of his credit issues.
MR. BLUM: Other than that, as far as you're concerned --
MR.OSSORIO: Other than that, I think he is fine.
MR. BLUM: Okay.
MR. OSSORIO: He has a temporary license from Lee County
and he had to go in front of the Lee County Contractor Licensing
Board. They issued him a temporary license for -- to clean up his
license -- his credit.
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February 21,2007
On that basis, then I would say to come back in six months. But
that's not my decision.
MR. HERRIMAN: When does your six-month license--
MR. HARRIS: March.
MR. HERRIMAN: March?
MR. HARRIS: Yes, sir. I just got the letter from them to go
back in front of them on March 6th, I believe.
MR. HERRIMAN: Seems to me it would be a good idea for us
to wait for Lee County to -- they know more about the credit problem
and so on. Let's see what they do and then ask him to come back,
depending on that outcome.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that's probably my
thoughts also. Collier's a little tougher to get a license in than up in
Lee County, apparently.
And I understand that you have some credit problems and you're
trying to pay them back, which is great. However, at this moment I
don't think I could go along with the fact of issuing you a license to
work in Collier County when you're still trying to pay back the debt
off in Lee County. Which I assume you're busy. Obviously you're
paying the bill.
So my thought would be to continue to pay that bill off and then
maybe come back here again after you've worked it off in Lee for a
while. I think the board may think differently, although this is only
my opInIon.
So anyone else have any comments?
MR. LEWIS: I have a question for Michael.
MR.OSSORIO: Yes, sir.
MR. LEWIS: Do you know offhand in Lee County what their
testing requirements are for a finish carpentry license, besides the
business and law, which I see here?
MR.OSSORIO: It's the same thing. The finish carpentry is a
business and law test. It's a three-hour test. So it is a tougher exam.
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February 21,2007
It's -- in other words, it's a -- he can elaborate, he took the exam.
It's a three-hour test; am I correct?
MR. HARRIS: Yes, sir.
MR. OSSORIO: And it's about business.
MR. LEWIS: What about the experience factor?
MR. OSSORIO: Well, he has to show experience. Affidavits of
trim carpentry, which I think he did supply. And that's something
we'll look into.
MR. LEWIS: Is it for 24 or 36 months; do you know?
MR. OSSORIO: I believe it's 24 months for a cabinet installing
license.
MR. LEWIS: For Collier County?
MR. OSSORIO: Collier County.
MR. LEWIS: Is it the same for Lee County?
MR. HARRIS: Yes, sir.
MR. LEWIS : You have a finish carpentry license in Lee County.
We don't have just finish carpentry, ours goes under cabinet.
MR. HARRIS: Their's is, too. Their finish carpentry covers
cabinets, millwork and you basic trim carpentry, finish carpentry.
MR. OSSORIO: When an applicant fills an application out, one
of the things he has to show is experience. It's nice to have a letter
from Lee County, but we actually call the company, talk to the
company, look at his references, and that's how we base our licensing
requirements, not on just because Lee County has a license.
MR. HARRIS: The one thing I wanted to say real quick too is I
don't supply any material. Everything is just labor itself. And I didn't
know how long that you need before I can come back in front of the
board.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Harris, how long do you think it's going to
take you to clean up some of this credit report?
MR. HARRIS: Well, the NFBM, it takes, I think it's on a
36-month program, because they're paying everybody individually
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February 21,2007
each month. So the judgment should be cleared up because there
wasn't a judgment. I was never served. I've been paying those people,
Capital One. So I don't know what happened. I was never served any
papers. They've been accepting $100 a month, which you can see on
the documentation. And they still did a judgment, which I had no idea
about at the time.
So right now we're fighting that with them because we don't
know why it was put on me to begin with. I was never served any
papers.
MR. LEWIS: Let me ask you, would you be willing to go ahead
and make your sincere effort that you've been doing for another three
to six months and then come back before us again --
MR. HARRIS: Most definitely --
MR. LEWIS: -- with a cleaner record and approach us again?
MR. HARRIS: Sure.
MR. LEWIS: I think the board would look favorably upon that.
MR. HARRIS: Not a problem.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that would be a great
idea. I think that'd be the best thing in your interest also at this point.
MR. LEWIS: If you can show some serious effort like you have
in the last three months, you know, get six months under your belt and
then, you know --
MR. HARRIS: Actually, it's been since September.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I would say that, September.
One last question, though. I see another license in here. Is this
also your license from Cape Coral, or is this the same license?
MR. HARRIS: No, I don't have a Cape Coral license. That's
where I live.
MR. OSSORIO: What's the requirements in Cape Coral? I
know they have different licenses in Cape Coral, Sanibel and Lee
County.
MR. HARRIS: Lee County and Cape Coral are the same thing.
Page 1 7
February 21,2007
You also have to go in front of the board there, just like here.
MR. OSSORIO: Thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I need a motion.
MR. NEALE: I'd suggest there be no motion on this, and just
allow him to withdraw the application.
MR. LEWIS: Would you like to withdraw your application?
MR. HARRIS: Yes, sir. Thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And the next case, which is
Brandy Jones Western. If you would come to the podium, please, to
be sworn in.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MS. JONES: Good morning.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Good morning, Ms. Jones.
Would you please tell us -- give us an overview also of the reason why
you're here today.
MS. JONES: I am here to request to have my paving contractor's
license reinstated.
MR. BLUM: How did you lose it?
MS. JONES: Due to not having workmen's compo insurance.
MR. BLUM: When did that happen?
MS. JONES: About two years ago.
MR. BLUM: So you were in business and you failed to get
workmen's compo and we rescinded your license?
MS. JONES: Yes.
MR. BLUM: So you want to reinstate it now without doing
what?
MS. JONES: I filed under LLC to apply to be exempt from
workmen's compo but Mike has told me that that only covers myself.
So we're doing -- we're willing to do whatever it is we need to do to
get them reinstated to satisfy the county as far as the workmen's compo
issue goes.
We have talked to a lady at labor pool who said that my husband
Page 18
February 21,2007
could file through the labor pool to be covered through workmen's
comp, because we are just a family business and just occasionally hire
day laborers.
MR. BLUM: What have you been doing for the last two years?
MS. JONES: We haven't been living here full-time. We just
recently sold our house in Atlanta and want to set up, you know, more
permanently here. Weather gets kind of a little rough and rainy there
in the winter months, so we would just come here during the winter
months of January, February.
MR. BLUM: So you don't -- there is no active license for her?
MR. OSSORIO: No, what happens under the code is she did
pass the exam, the trades exam and the business and law exam. She
received her license, and she did not renew. And when you do not
renew at a period of time it goes canceled, null and void.
And then if it passes over a year and three months, the ordinance
specifies that if it's been over three years of taking the exam then you
would need to retest. That's why she's here today.
MR. BLUM: So she wants to not retest.
MR. OSSORIO: She wants to waive the testing and apply for a
license, yes.
MR. BLUM: And are you okay with the way they're establishing
this business as this LLC and not needing the workmen's comp? I'm a
little unclear as to --
MR. OSSORIO: Well, I've talked to her a little bit. I'm not the
primary person that did the initial talking to. But my philosophy is, is
if she's been -- I've had cases on her in the past, workers compo
violation, due to the fact that there were workers out there. The
company was unavailable. Never come in the office, because they are
from Georgia. My feeling is, is that stick to the ordinance.
She wants to get workers compo Obviously she wants to get
workers compo exempt. Everyone knows when you get workers compo
exempt, you're telling the State of Florida that I'm going to be doing
Page 19
February 21,2007
the work. And I don't think she's out there paving. I've never seen her
personally out there doing any kind of paving. So with that aspect, I
think she would have to retest again.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Just for the record, has she
been cited at all in the past for a paving license?
MR. BARTOE: If I may, at the beginning of this month I cited--
I did not cite her, I cited her husband. The company was working in
Golden Gate Estates. I believe it was the 1 st or 2nd of February. And
two days later Ian Jackson cited them on another job site in the
county. So that was two violations within a couple of days.
And each time I saw at least three workers on the job site and Mr.
Jackson saw three or four. And I'm looking at the certificate of
insurance here, and there's no workers compo that I can see.
MR. BLUM: And as well as they were working without a
license.
MR. BARTOE: That's correct.
MR. BLUM: Do they need to pull permits, I assume?
MR. BARTOE: No, sir, they did not need permits.
MR. BLUM: So they were just taking jobs, working without a
license and working without insurance and didn't particularly care.
MR.OSSORIO: And that's been the norm for a couple of years
now.
MR. BLUM: I'm ready to make a motion.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mrs. Jones, are you aware of
the workman's compensation laws of Collier it is for you to have a
business, if you have employees?
MS. JONES: Yes, sir. We have not been in Collier County since
the year before last. And when Tom came out to the job, we had just
recently gotten back in town and was -- we was starting the process of
what I needed to do. Because we are just a family business, you know,
we have to try to make our living the best way we can to support our
family.
Page 20
February 21, 2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So all the people that you have
working for you right now are in your family?
MS. JONES: Except for occasional day laborers. And we've
talked to Maggie and she suggested that we pick day laborers up from
the labor pool. They also said that my husband could file through a
labor pool to have his self covered or anyone else in our family could
file through their -- to be carried by workers compo to keep our
company from actually having to carry it.
MR. OSSORIO: Yes, but you know that's -- just a quick thing.
You know, that's music to the ears. But unfortunately when you apply
that onto the job site, that doesn't happen.
MR. BLUM: How about flaunting Collier County's rules for not
even having a license? In effect. I mean, that's really like a slap in the
face to all of us. I don't know how else to say it.
I mean, we understand making a living, we understand feeding
your family. But if everybody went about feeding their family like
that, we'd have a really huge problem.
MS. JONES: I understand.
MR. LEWIS: The problem I have with it in conjunction with
that is you've been licensed, you know our laws, you've been licensed
here in Collier County. And then you knew you didn't have a licence
when you came back here. Instead of trying to go at that point in time
and correct the situation, you just threw it in our faces. I'd move to
deny the motion.
MR. HERRIMAN: Second.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second on the
floor. All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
Page 21
February 21, 2007
Any opposed?
(No response.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion carries.
MR. BLUM: As an aside, Michael, what are the penalties for
continuing operating the way these folks are now?
MR. OSSORIO: First offense is 300, second offense is 500, third
one we take it to the Sheriffs Office.
MR. BLUM: Thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You do realize this is pretty
serious. This is not something that we're denying you a license for,
this is something that you're doing that's going to get you in some
serious trouble if you continue.
MS. JONES: Yes, I understand. And since, we have not worked
in the last couple of weeks since this has came about.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Now, I would also recommend
to you that if you really want to try to get this on the right page and
work in Collier County, that you do somehow try to gain yourself a
workman's compo policy on these people and then maybe reapply and
maybe come before this board again with all the credentials in hand.
Then it might be a little different story.
But right now you're just continually breaking the rules. And not
having a license and not having workman's compo besides, you're not
batting very well. And you're going to get yourself in some serious
trouble.
MS. JONES: If we obtain the workman's comp., will I still need
to retest?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, ma'am.
MR. BLUM: Absolutely.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: But they give the test almost
daily in different locations. I'm sure you can see Maggie or someone's
that's down at the county and they can tell you where the test is being
given. You can sign up for it almost daily. That would be my
Page 22
February 21, 2007
recommendation to you, to get on as soon as you can.
MS. JONES: Okay, thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're welcome.
So much for new business.
You want to go to this public hearing right now, or do you want
to discuss this Cortez real quick and get this off the record? Because
this other one might take a bit.
MR. BLUM: Fine. Is Mr. Cortez going to be lengthy or --
MR.OSSORIO: I think Mr. Cortez -- well, he's here, let him
speak. I don't think he's going to be lengthy. I wasn't prepared to
discuss Mr. Cortez's case. But I will address it in a term that's
ambiguous so that you can make your own mind up in the next couple
of months.
MR. BLUM: Can we set a time constraint of 10 minutes and if
we can resolve --
MR. OSSORIO: That's fine.
MR. BLUM: -- it, fine, ifnot, he's got to come back?
MR. OSSORIO: Well, let me give you the review of it --
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: See what we can do.
MR. OSSORIO: -- so then you know where Mr. Cortez is
coming from.
Mr. Cortez is from West Palm Beach. West Palm Beach has
become one of the stricter counties in Florida issuing licensing.
One of the requirements in West Palm Beach is that per statute
that you need, before you take the exam you need to go in front of
their licensing board to show that you have experience. They actually
go through the application before you take the exam. Prometric exam,
the same exam that's given here. And a substantial lot of money.
Well, unfortunately there's some schooling, there's an electrical
company schooling over in West Palm Beach that does master
electricians that give schooling, that has found a loophole in West
Palm Beach and found out that Collier County is the cheapest -- ours
Page 23
February 21,2007
is $25 to get sponsored, $72 for a license -- and the easiest to go
through.
So not Mr. Cortez's fault, but unfortunately to circumvent the
system, if an individual takes the exam without permission from Palm
Beach, they are not granted a license. They can't just show up and say
here's my test scores from Prometric, you know, license me, or let me
go through the process. That doesn't happen. I don't know why.
But it's in the ordinance in the state statute that they have to
sponsor you. You have to go in front of their licensing board. And it
takes a four or five-month process. It's not an easy process.
But how they get through this is that we sponsor -- for us to
sponsor a candidate, it's $25. That sponsorship fee can go anywhere
in Florida. You take it -- you can call up Prometric, you can take it in
Palm Beach, you can take it in Gainesville, you can take it in
Jacksonville. They sign up. Take the test. We sponsor them. We're
the sponsoring county. They take the exam. They fill it out -- use our
application for $72. We review their credit -- we try to review their
credit, and we actually issue them a license.
When we issue them a license, they have no intention of working
in Collier County. They take that license and they apply it to West
Palm Beach and say okay, here's my Collier County license, give me
reciprocity. They will do that.
And so the problem I have is that A, our fees are based upon
Collier County taxpayers and what the building department brings in.
We keep our fees low, rightfully so. We're a big county, we generate
a lot of money and we keep our fees low.
Our primary job for Collier County is to protect and serve the
Collier County residents, not to circumvent the Palm Beach policy.
I've talked to the building director at Palm Beach, and he's
regrettably said -- he's apologized to us for any inconvenience,
because most of our day is generated or spent trying to facilitate West
Palm Beach policy.
Page 24
February 21,2007
And how do we know that Mr. Cortez -- I'm not saying Mr.
Cortez did, but we'll just use an applicant in general -- has gone in
front of the West Palm Beach Board and they denied him. Then he
comes over here, we issue him a license, then he goes to Palm Beach.
Our policy is, through what I've decided under the ordinance, that
any West Palm Beach applicant much petition the licensing board to
show cause of good faith why. That's been supported by the building
director.
And that's where we are here today. How do we serve Collier
County residents by issuing a license to a Palm Beach resident that we
are the primary certificate holder for them, through the State of
Florida, as a resident, as a primary person who's taken the exam?
How do we police that over in Palm Beach and how do we protect
Palm Beach County residents if they circumvent the system?
MR. BLUM: We shouldn't even be in that position.
MR.OSSORIO: Well, unfortunately we are. And Palm Beach
has taken the forefront in getting more stricter. They have some
policy procedure problems over in West Palm Beach and Dade
County, which is fine.
But unfortunately, until we actually address that issue in the
ordinance, I've decided to go ahead and bring it to the board
case-by-case basis.
Mr. Cortez, I don't know ifhe got wrong information. The policy
is and should be that Mr. Cortez fills out a full application, a letter to
you saying why he wants to get a licensing, and then you folks discuss
it and deliberate on its merit.
Unfortunately, Mr. Cortez drove two and a half hours today,
didn't really get that message. I recall giving that message to Mr.
Cortez, because I'm pretty well standardized how I conduct business.
But with that said, maybe I did make a mistake, and Mr. Cortez is here
and he would like to talk to you.
And if I made some errors, Mr. Cortez, would you--
Page 25
February 21,2007
MR. CORTEZ: Yes, I want to talk.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If you'd like to come to the
podium just for a minute, then we'll hear this for -- we'll give you a
few minutes.
To make a long story short, though, what he would bottom line
end up needing to do would be to submit a full packet --
MR.OSSORIO: Yes.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- on another visit or another
agenda --
MR. OSSORIO: Yes.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- pretty much for another
meeting.
MR. BLUM: Doesn't he then have to show us proof of
experience?
MR. OSSORIO: Well, one of the things -- like I said, one of the
things you have to show is you have to show proof that you've worked
in the business for over six years. You have to show proof that you've
been under the experience of a master electrician, on a letterhead.
You have to show credit report and experience. And how do you
actually verify that if he's living on the other coast?
And that's something that the board will-- I don't expect the
board to make that decision today. Maybe that would be a formal
discussion when we actually get some applicant with the information
in front of him.
For Mr. Cor -- he drove a long way, Mr. Cortez, and I felt that,
you know, at least he could address the board and see where he's
coming from.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Cortez?
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. CORTEZ: The first thing I want to say, we apply -- I live in
West Palm. I'm apply to here because I went to the class with Jack
Lee (phonetic), that's a teacher. He send everybody here, like 32
Page 26
February 21,2007
people. And now the first people they pass a test, they got the license
already. And we went on the same group.
And there is not for any reason for the money because in West
Palm Beach, it is 400 bucks for the license. But it's not 1,000, as he
say.
The reason is now with the teacher. He send--
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Maybe just a little slower.
MR. CORTEZ: Okay. The reason I came to here, that's because
the teacher, he send us, you know, the whole group to here. But it's
not been because it is cheap. That's true if it is easy, because we don't
have to fill out a lot of paper. That's the first reason he told us we
have to come here, that's the best way. We don't know nothing. Ifhe's
the teacher -- if he sent us to here, so we follow him, you know?
And the fee is not so high how he say. It is 400 bucks. And the
Palm Beach County, you have to fill out all the paper first, you know,
give the proof to the board. And then -- you know, when you are
ready, they permit you to go to take a test. That's the truth.
And, you know, the other thing that he say, he left the message
and he talk to me and he say we have to bring a lot of copy, like three
copy. And I got the message over here on my phone. And with -- on
his voice. And he don't say that. He made me fill out a lot of paper.
And then another guy's -- actually, I fill out the paper for another
guy. He's in process. And I fill out his paper. And it is not the same
paper I fill out first. He made me fill out a lot of paper. I got all the
copy he send me back. I got all the paper here.
And the other question I got is if I send the application here,
why? They cashier (sic) my check, they send me my papers to
approve -- you know, to take a test over here. I got all the paper with
me. And that's my question.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You did this testing or you did
this paperwork involvement with someone there that was going to give
you the test; is that the case?
Page 27
February 21,2007
MR. CORTEZ: Uh-huh.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Or someone here --
MR. OSSORIO: Maybe I can help. There's actually a schooling
that's given in Palm Beach. As a matter of fact, I believe it's given to a
person that works in the electrical department in Palm Beach, if I'm
correct. He's the chief master electrician that works for the county
over in Palm Beach.
They go through schooling and then they help prep them for the
Prometric test. And then I guess the gentleman says well, this is what
you should do, go to Collier County because the forms are much
easier and the bureaucracy is much easier. And I've heard that from
him directly.
And I've heard $1,000. So when he says $400, I don't know,
maybe that's their starting $400, but maybe the paperwork to go in
front of the board and get the license and renew the license, maybe all
that's -- you know, maybe that's taken in consideration. I don't know.
MR. CORTEZ: No, that's the fee for the county, 400 bucks.
MR.OSSORIO: Okay. Well, I don't know, the applicant fee to
go in front of the board, I don't what that is.
MR. CORTEZ: 25, the same fee over here.
MR. OSSORIO: But we don't deny -- the ordinance doesn't
specify we need to deny a licence -- deny an applicant to take an
exam. It's a sponsorship fee. We sponsor any particular person who
wants to take it because they can take it throughout -- we might have
someone from North Carolina who wants to move to Naples, and we
have a vested interest in that person to go ahead and sponsor him to
take the exam because he's going to be working for Collier County
and service our residents.
Now, his fallacy is, is that, well, you've taken our money. You're
absolutely right. If you're going to work over here and if you're going
to conduct your business over here, and we can police you under our
registration through the State of Florida, and we register that company
Page 28
February 21,2007
through our office, then I have no problem vesting my time and my
taxpayers and our resources to get him licensed.
But if it's just a matter of policy of Broward County and
Miami-Dade, of A, it's more money, which he said. B, that the
paperwork is more stringent. And C, the licensing board is more
stringent. Well, you know, that's the way the ball bounces.
MR. BLUM: So what about the 23 people that already did it?
Do you know about that?
MR. OSSORIO: No.
MR. CORTEZ: 32.
MR. OSSORIO: Like I told Mr. Cortez before, under my watch I
have not issued a master electrician license from Palm Beach, as far as
my recollection.
Now, we have issued a license to journeymen. A journeyman is
a $15 fee. All we do is make two phone calls to Palm Beach. But we
have stopped that practice. Just last week we got over eight or nine
applicants from Palm Beach, and we denied them all.
Now, I don't know what -- I can't speak to the old regime or how
that policy worked, but our staff is under the direction of me and the
building director and we've made a decision that that's it. The camel --
you know, he broke the camel's back. We cannot handle anymore
Palm Beach issues.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It sounds to me like what the
intent was to begin with was for someone that, say, was living in, who
knows, New Hampshire or whatever and was going to move to Collier
County to work. And that's when that rule or that I guess idea of the
licensing here would apply. Not for them to go from Palm Beach or
from anywhere else; come here and get a license and take it back there
to work.
MR.OSSORIO: Well, I don't think the West Palm licensing
people are going to be very appreciative of what we do here for their
residents.
Page 29
February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand. Sure.
MR.OSSORIO: We don't make policy for them, they don't
make policy for us. This is a fee-related issue.
We have a vested interest in any particular person who wants to
go ahead and work in Collier County, bona fide business, once you
take the exam, you fill the application out and you show the
experience. We make all the necessary arrangements to try to verify
their construction experience.
Then they fill out the state registration form. They send the state
registration form to Tallahassee. They review it. They bring it back.
We give them -- they get the state registration card that you have or
anyone else has and Mr. Cusimano has in the audience, and then it
gets put in our system. That's how it's done.
MR. BLUM: Mr. Neale, are we on any tenuous legal grounds
here? In other words, what we're saying is we're basically -- what
Michael is basically saying, and I happen to 100 percent agree with
his decision, but can we legally do this? Can we set different
standards for people coming from the other coast when we know full
well that it's a way to circumvent their own rules?
MR. NEALE: Well, I think there may be an issue, and I'm going
to look into it, but there may be an issue specifying that it is from
Palm Beach County alone. Because then you're singling out one
county.
Now, you could probably argue the other side, that there's
substantial evidence to provide that Palm Beach County is a particular
problem and therefore they are the one that needs to be looked at.
I think the way that the board can make sure that all those
licenses, anybody who's an applicant from Palm Beach County up
here, is that Mr. Ossorio has in his purview that he can refer any
license application that appears on its face to have a problem to this
board for review, regardless of cause, frankly.
MR. BLUM: Can we deny because they're coming from Palm
Page 30
February 21,2007
Beach and we feel, justly or unjustly, that they're circumventing their
own rules to come here?
I'm just wondering where we stand. I mean, I want to do it. I
totally agree with Mr. Ossorio, but I don't want to start raising legal
hassles either that we do it because we're going against our own rules.
MR. NEALE: That's an issue that I'd want to look into more
closely. Because that, solely because someone is not here, the -- what
I want to look into is there's a requirement in our ordinance that the
business records of any license holder must be easily accessible to
Collier County officials for inspection at any time.
MR. BLUM: Okay. What about the idea that let's say this
gentleman happens to have a vacation home in Collier County. What
do you do then? What do we use as documentation or proof of
residence and all of those kind of things? I mean, I see potential for
all kinds of nonsense.
MR. NEALE: There are requirements in other Collier County
ordinances that you have a business address, with a telephone even, in
Collier County. The one that comes to mind is the beach vendor
ordinance which requires anyone who has a beach vendor permit here
in Collier County to have a business office with a telephone in Collier
County. So that's the only one I can think of.
But it's an issue that certainly I'd want to do some more research
on before we set policy on this. Because as you say, there may be
some issues, discrimination issues -- not racial or sexual or anything
like that -- but discrimination issues as to location that may need to get
looked into.
MR. BLUM: So can we -- as a board, can we, let's say
temporarily until we research the legalities, applaud Mr. Ossorio and
let him keep up the good work temporarily?
MR. NEALE: Yeah, I think at this point certainly he can
continue doing it until Robert and I are able to take a look at it and see
where we are.
Page 31
February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You can understand the
situation that we're in right now. It's just one of those Catch-22
situations where we need to investigate what you're going to apply for
a license for here just a little bit more before, with our attorney's
advice.
So I would say at this time that you stated what needs to be said
and we now know what you're attempting to do. So at this moment I
think that that's all that needs to be said.
MR. CORTEZ: Yeah, I want to say something.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'll give you a couple more
minutes. Make it quick.
MR. CORTEZ: He mentioned first they refused me in West
Palm if I -- but that's my first time applicate (sic) for the master
electrician. And the reason I came here first, the teacher, they sent us
to here.
The other question it is, if we live in Florida, that's the whole
state. Collier County, that's part of the other state. So I don't
understand why he said --
MR. BLUM: Then apply for a state license and be done with it
then. Then just apply for a state license. I mean, in your heart of
hearts and in our limited resources here, it's very obvious what you're
trying to do. And it's the American way, God bless you for trying to
find a way to make something work.
The truth of the matter is, you live in Palm Beach, you're doing
business in Palm Beach. Get your license in Palm Beach and don't
come over here unless you want to do business here. Then we're all
for it. But there may be ramifications. And we can't make a final
decision now.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Correct.
MR. OSSORIO: I don't think I actually said, Mr. Cortez,
referencing you going before the licensing board. I said you mayor
may not have. But I'm sure those people that went in front of West
Page 32
February 21,2007
Palm have gone through my desk to apply for a license that's been
denied by West Palm Beach.
MR. NEALE: I would like to just make one point, and it does --
addressing Mr. Blum's question.
In the Collier County ordinance, for a contractor to be licensed in
Collier County on their application they have to maintain an office in
Collier County or have an agent in Collier County for purposes of
receiving notices pursuant to the ordinance.
So for anyone to be licensed in Collier County, no matter where
they come from, they have to have either an office here or an agent
appointed in Collier County to receive notices.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, that clarifies it pretty
much.
MR. LEWIS: Good job, Mr. Ossorio, thank you.
MS. MERTEN: May I say -- ask one question?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, swear her in. One
minute.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MS. MERTEN: We talked to Maggie. He had got me involved.
I'm a neighbor. And just trying to figure it all out. And we talked to
Maggie. She told us to come before the board and never did tell us
that we had to have 15 copies or anything like that. She said come on
the 21st of February. And then we called Jennifer to find out where it
was, and she said third floor, you know, so we're here.
So that's the reason we don't have all the preparation. Because I
went through a lot with her, because he does understand quite a bit of
English. He may not talk as easily.
But the only question I have is that you guys sponsored him, so
why would you sponsor him if you don't want him to have your -- the
license here?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: It's not that we don't want him
to have the license, it's the fact that we can sponsor him to apply for
Page 33
February 21, 2007
the license, however, the ordinance was just fully read to you, that in
order to have a license, in order to carry that license out and get the
license in your hands, you must have a physical address, a physical
place of business.
MS. MERTEN: Or a mailbox.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Or a mailbox or someone else
that can accept mail.
MR. BLUM: And a person --
MS. MERTEN: A person here--
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Basically setting up a business
in Collier County. Which at the moment I don't see that has
happened. So--
MS. MERTEN: No. But, I mean, it could easily happen to--
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, that's something that
needs to be brought up at a later time.
MS. MERTEN: But that's not -- but what I'm saying is you're
still -- I understand where you guys are coming from, you know. I
understand it. We both really understand it, you know --
MR. BLUM: Then what are we doing here?
MS. MERTEN: Well, because we have gone -- why won't they
just -- why wouldn't they just say don't --
MR. BLUM: Mr. Ossorio stated up front, it fell through the
cracks. And we apologize for falling through the cracks.
MS. MERTEN: But then why would they tell us to come here
again?
MR. BLUM: We wanted to give an opportunity as a courtesy to
state your case personally . You've now heard it and you've gotten
what (sic) we're going and we still need some more legal remedy, but
basically we're done.
MS. MERTEN: To make sure you can't get sued, right?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, basically not get sued,
but yes. I mean, we always look to our attorney for advice when we
Page 34
February 21,2007
come across --
MS. MERTEN: I understand that.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- issues. That way we do not
cross that line.
MS. MERTEN: Will you still continue to cash checks from Palm
Beach County?
MR. OSSORIO: Any particular person who wants to obtain a
license in Collier County, a bona fide license, we will take their $25
sponsorship. These testing agencies are all through Florida. My staff
is not going to sit there and look at a check and say oh, maybe it came
from Jupiter.
Our policy is, anyone from out of the county we initially talk to
them, we review their application, and if they are trying to circumvent
the system through their Brevard County, Martin County, whatever
county they're coming from, they're going to be referred to the
licensing board. This has nothing to do with Palm Beach. This is just
your particular instance.
But any county. I might have family in Brevard County, he
wants to be a carpentry contractor. Who am I to say he can't get
sponsored. It's a $25 sponsor fee. And every -- that $25 sponsor fee
for Prometric, every county will accept that test except Palm Beach.
So if I'm from Jacksonville and I want to be sponsored by Collier
County, Palm Beach is the only county that you have to go in front of
the licensing board before you take the exam.
MS. MERTEN: Which is probably the smarter way of doing it,
actually, because then you don't have this problem in the end.
But -- so you will still take people's -- but you want to know that
they're working here. Is that your new policy? Because it wasn't back
in, you know, April when you weren't here.
MR.OSSORIO: I believe -- I'm going to be honest with you, I
believe that we made arrangements with Palm Beach that the
gentleman that gave you that advice --
Page 35
February 21,2007
MS. MERTEN: Will be fired and let go and everything.
MR. OSSORIO: Is not going to be hopefully --
MS. MERTEN: It's not fair to him.
MR. OSSORIO: No, you're absolutely right. And I do apologize
to Mr. Cortez. And, you know--
MS. MERTEN: That's the hard part, you know. That's what
they told him.
MR.OSSORIO: But I'll be honest with you, even if you got the
-- got a P.O. Box, got a particular person to say I'm a registered agent,
you will still be referred to licensing board due to the fact that I'm not
going to expend our taxpayers' money to verify your construction
experience for Palm Beach. And I recommend if you do all those
hoops, you bring your experienced people over here from Miami who
spends a day and says I'm an electrical contractor in Miami and I
know Mr. Cortez's work, that's how we verify construction experience
if I'm unable to do so.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: In person.
MR. OSSORIO: In person. If you're serious about doing this,
you're going to have to bring an entourage of people over here. And
that goes for Brevard County, Cocoa, whatever county they're from,
Martin County to Jacksonville County, whatever -- Duval, that if we
feel that you're circumventing the system of that county we're going to
refer to the licensing board.
MS. MERTEN: So unfortunately for him, that's what they
advised him to do.
MR. BLUM: He was the fourth guy that the cop stopped. The
first three got away. If you heard my previous analogy. It happens --
MS. MERTEN: Yes, I did.
MR. BLUM: -- and it really is unfortunate. But I'm glad we
finally spoke to this gentleman and you're aware of it and the
floodgates are closed.
MR. CORTEZ: If they told me that before, I don't come--
Page 36
February 21,2007
MR. BLUM: You've been apologized to at least three times. We
do sincerely apologize --
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Cortez, there's a county north of -- what's
the county north of where you're from, Palm Beach? Is that Martin?
MS. MERTEN: Martin.
MR. OSSORIO: Martin. I've had -- as a matter of fact, it should
be ironic, I have a company that is applying for a registered license
with us, an electrical license. He is from Martin County, and he has
taken the exam, passed it and got a license. He actually wants to get a
license from our office because he's going to work here.
What's the policy of you taking your Prometric test and go to
Martin County and applying for a license there?
MR. CORTEZ: That's the same test--
MR. OSSORIO: Why don't you get a license with them --
MR. CORTEZ: Because the teacher -- I told you before, he sent
us to here --
MR. OSSORIO: I know that. But I'm saying to you that
wouldn't it be easier for you to go the next county over to get a
license, get that registration, bring it to Palm Beach.
MR. CORTEZ: Yeah, but I don't have the test. They tell us in
Prometric they send the score to here.
MR.OSSORIO: We send scores out all the time. We sponsored
you, we'll send a letter --
MS. MERTEN: You'll send his test back--
MR. OSSORIO: No problem --
MS. MERTEN: -- to apply for it somewhere else?
MR. OSSORIO: Sure. There's a letter that we send out to
counties to tell them the applicant has -- we did sponsor that applicant
and he did pass that exam, yes.
MR. CORTEZ: That's what I want, the score --
MS. MERTEN: He wants to have his score transferred, and you
can do that?
Page 37
February 21, 2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: After the meeting when we're
finished here, you can see Mr. Ossorio, he'll take care of the
paperwork and you'll get it all handled, okay?
MS. MERTEN: Thank you very much.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You're welcome.
MS. MERTEN: And, you know, we're sorry. That's what they
told him to do.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, we understand.
MR. LEWIS: I suggest you take that up with him.
MS. MERTEN: Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Busted.
MR. LEWIS: And before we close out the subject, if I may, ifit
be the board's pleasure, with Mr. Neale's approval, that the board issue
a documented letter to Palm Beach County and just tell them to stop
the reciprocity from any county. If they want everybody to come
before their board, then let them do that, instead of us having to sit
here and hassle with it.
All they have to do is stop reciprocity -- I can't ever say that word
-- and it will end all this bunk.
MR. BLUM: They're allowing it to happen, actually. Palm
Beach is allowing the loophole to exist. All they got do is say we
don't accept reciprocity and that's the end of it.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure, it's all over.
MS. MERTEN: Martin County, it's close.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right. Do we need to take
a break before this next case happens just for a few minutes?
Let's take a quick 10-minute recess. For say at 10:20.
(A break was taken.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I call the meeting back to order
again for the February 21st Collier County Contractor Licensing
Board.
The next item on the agenda is a public hearing involved with
CLB Case No. 2007-03, of James J. Cusiamo (sic). Excuse my
Page 38
February 21,2007
English here.
Who's going to do this case? Mr. Kennette.
Mr. Cusiamo (sic) -- how do you say that?
MR. CUSIMANO: Cusimano.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Cusimano. Would you please
come to the podium, please.
MR. NEALE: Just a refresher on the procedure. County
presents its case in chief, he presents his case, his response, and then
they both get to question witnesses.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, fine.
Okay, if you just want to have a seat one second. I'm sorry.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. KENNETTE: For the record, my name is Allen Kennette,
contractor licensing compliance officer.
Mr. Chairman, board members, I'd like to put into evidence
composition Exhibit A that you have.
MR. NEALE: You need a motion to accept.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I need a motion, please.
MR. LEWIS: Move to take composite Exhibit A into evidence.
MR. BLUM: Second.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and a second. All in
favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. KENNETTE: This is a case, an electrical contractor,
Cusimano Electric, Incorporated installed a generator without first
obtaining a permit. The contract -- he was contracted to install at
4309 Crayton Road, in the City of Naples at a Mr. Murray Wise
residence.
Page 39
February 21,2007
Mr. Cusimano did not get permit before it was installed, violating
the building codes; changed his contractor agreement with the
homeowner by not applying for the permits, and has several violations
of the installation of the generator that would have been noted before
if he would have gotten the permit and inspections were done as he
was installing the generator.
I have the -- Mr. Cusimano is present, and I have a
representative, Mr. Kent Anderson, for the homeowner, who is in
charge of the actual installation of the generator, along with Mr.
Cusimano working with him to get the generator installed. I have
those people present to give testimony on the violations.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right. Is that basically--
MR. KENNETTE: Yes, that's basically it, yes.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Cusimano, you want to
come to the podium, please, now?
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Cusimano, do you want to
give us a brief overview also of what's involved in this case and why
you're here?
MR. CUSIMANO: Certainly. My name is James V. Cusimano.
I'm president and owner of Cusimano Electric.
Cusimano in Italian means sew with your hands. Uncle Sal took
it one step further, meaning work with your hands. And the
Cusimanos have humbly made their living for three generations with
their hands.
I moved here in 1975. I entered and completed the State of
Florida apprenticeship program in 1977. I got a journeyman's license
in 1979, my master's in 1988.
I applied for a license and have operated a business in Lee and
Collier County since approximately 1992. And I may say, this is the
first time I've been in front of any board for any disciplinary matter to
this present day.
Page 40
February 21, 2007
The circumstances involving what has happened here is we are a
small service company. And in 2004, when Hurricane Charley came,
we saw a need in the community to provide and install backup
generators due to the storms: Charley in 2004, Wilma in 2005.
We obtained a generator distributor's license, which we sent one
of our techs to Wisconsin to be trained for three days and has been
certified.
From 2004 to the present day, we've installed almost 50
generators in Southwest Florida, Lee and Collier counties. All have
been -- permits were applied for, permits were obtained, permits were
posted, the jobs were done, the jobs were signed off, and the
homeowners were happy.
And we have a maintenance program that we go back and check
them every six months, I believe it is.
So Mr. Wise asked us to put a generator in his home on Crayton
Road.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We're going to get into the
evidence here in just a moment. Just a little more brief description of
what went on. This is basically the charges that you're being charged
with here today.
MR. NEALE: A quick opening statement.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Opening statement of
something that you're -- what happened. You want to tell.
MR. CUSIMANO: Once again, having gone through almost 50
generators and applying for permits via and in most cases an express
procedure, I believed that I would be able to obtain a permit from -- in
a timely manner from the City of Naples.
That being said, this was August, and this is 2006. This is
August. And looking over our shoulder, we know August, September
and October is our hurricane months, and there was a certain amount
of urgency that we felt to help accommodate our customer to have his
generator in case the big one came again.
Page 41
February 21,2007
That being said, the permits were applied for early in the month
-- actually, I believe around August 1 st we were applied for. And may
I try and explain this. All this is all happening within the same four to
six-week period.
We put in the application for the generator. We expected, based
on past experiences, that we would obtain a permit in a short period of
time, based on 48 other times.
That being said, I exercised and fully admit to poor
communication with the rest of my staff, and a pad was set before a
permit was obtained. The work began without a permit.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, that's basically the
reason why you're here.
MR. CUSIMANO: Right.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Kennette -- if you want to
just have a seat real quick now. This is kind of a quasi-judicial. We're
going to let the county quiz and find out what the problem was, or
what's happened and what they have found. And then we'll give you a
chance to come back and question them and ask more questions in
response. Okay?
MR. CUSIMANO: Yes, sir.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Kennette, could you kind
of bring the case a little bit more forward now.
MR. KENNETTE: Okay. As I said, this is a case with the City
of Naples that it came to light once the gas tanks, the propane tanks
were put in the ground under a permit, when they went out to inspect
it that the generator was already in place, hooked up ready to be fired
off to make sure that it was working properly.
At that time Mr. Anderson noticed that there was no permit for
the generator and did not want that to happen until the city approved
that. So, with that said, I'd like to have the -- Mr. Ed Guy from the
plans and review from the city come up and explain what happened
with the permitting process and the delays that were involved and the
Page 42
February 21,2007
lack of communication that Mr. Cusimano did not follow through on
when we had our meeting with him.
He was supposed to go to the city that day and get things squared
away. He didn't go till three or four days later the following week and
is still in a turmoil of not getting the proper paperwork in.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So the permit has not still been
issued forward -- not been issued yet?
MR. KENNETTE: No, it hasn't.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Cusimano, you want to
just have a seat real quick and we'll bring him a single microphone for
him to speak on.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. GUY: Good morning. As you mayor may not know, we
have a lengthy permit process for generators. We want to ensure
many things happen correctly before we issue the permit. It's really a
matter of going from point A to point B with a checklist, which we
provide every contractor, so they can go forward, use the checklist to
provide us with those items we need. Makes it a much smoother
process.
It's not an express process, however, like they have in the county.
It's sometimes two to three weeks turnaround for a generator.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: This is probably because of all
the electrical requirements and --
MR. GUY : Well, electrical positioning, placement, type of fuel,
all those things come into play. We have very, very tight lot
restrictions in the city.
MR. BLUM: Was this your first experience with Mr. Cusimano
in the city?
MR. GUY: Yes, absolutely.
MR. BLUM: So his previous endeavors have probably been with
the county, is that it, Lee County and Collier County?
He said he did 48 previous ones, but evidently none were done in
Page 43
February 21,2007
the city; is that what I'm hearing?
MR. GUY: I don't have any knowledge of him doing anything--
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Blum, I checked our records, and our
records indicate that Mr. Cusimano has pulled three building permits
in Collier County for generators. Two have been CO'd in '06. So it
was approximately three total. Three total.
Mr. Guy, can you explain to the board what is your title in the
City of Naples?
MR. GUY: I'm the plans examiner for the electrical plan review
department.
MR. OSSORIO: How long have you worked there?
MR. GUY: I've been there three years.
MR. OSSORIO: And is there any particular license you hold?
MR. GUY: Yes, I hold an electrical inspector's license from the
state and also plan review license from the state.
MR.OSSORIO: So would you consider yourself an expert in
reviewing electrical plans?
MR. GUY: Absolutely.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Zachary, I believe that he could be testified
to be an expert witness?
MR. ZACHARY: If you so move.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So moved.
MR. HORN: We need a motion on that? I'll make a motion to
accept his testimony as expert witness.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We need a second.
MR. BLUM: Second.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: A motion and a second. All in
favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
Page 44
February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Guy, do you have the packet in front of
you?
MR. GUY: Yes, I -- well, I don't have your packet, I have what I
was asked to bring in.
MR.OSSORIO: Could you look at E-14.
MR. GUY: Well, again, my packets aren't numbered like yours.
Thank you.
MR.OSSORIO: Do you have that in front of you?
MR. GUY: Yes, go ahead.
MR. OSSORIO: Explain to the board what that actually is. And
by your opinion, since you are an expert witness, can you tell the
board why that is a code issue.
MR. GUY : Well, just from the appearance of the photograph,
not being able to judge actual distances, it appears that the generator is
in violation of the code that does not allow for any gasoline engine or
fuel-type engine to be within five feet of a window. A window is
considered an opening.
The wall would be rated approximately one hour, the opening
would negate that rating.
PA-37 requires at least five feet from any opening in a structure
that's not rated.
From this point, from this vantage of the photograph, I cannot see
any of the electrical work.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If I'm looking at it correctly, it
appears that there may be possibly another unit sitting behind it?
MR. GUY: It appears there may be some type of equipment
sitting behind it. There appears to be some type of box also to the
right of the window as you face the window. From this vantage point,
I could not say what it is.
MR. BLUM: Is that the only issue you see wrong?
MR. GUY: From this vantage point at this point, yes, that's all I
Page 45
February 21,2007
can see.
MR. BLUM: You've inspected the property and the installation?
MR. GUY: No, I have not.
MR. BLUM: You haven't personally been to this job?
MR. GUY: No, sir. My job is solely to review plans. I do hold
an electrical inspector's license, but I'm no longer in that position. I'm
now plan review.
MR.OSSORIO: Mr. Guy, on that E-14, you see the address
4309 Crayton Road?
MR. GUY: Yes, I do.
MR.OSSORIO: Did you check your database in the city, is
there a building permit for that issued?
MR. GUY: No, there is not.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Guy, turn to Page E-3.
MR. GUY: Yes.
MR. OSSORIO: Are you the author of that letter?
MR. GUY: Yes, I am.
MR. OSSORIO: Can you explain to the board what that letter is
intended for and who you sent it to?
MR. GUY: Any time we provide plan review, we also provide
documentation as to what any of the negatives -- in other words, for
instance, if we have any deficiencies when we review the plan, we list
those deficiencies in the form of a letter. We send the letter back. If
there are no deficiencies, we go forward and issue a permit.
In this case, there were several deficiencies.
MR. OSSORIO: And that date's August 26th, 2006?
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
MR. OSSORIO: Have you communicated since that date to Mr.
Cusimano?
MR. GUY: Several times.
MR. OSSORIO: And what happened to the building permit
application?
Page 46
February 21,2007
MR. GUY: It was revoked.
MR. OSSORIO: And for what reason?
MR. GUY: There were several reasons. No responses to letters.
And secondarily, there was a request for a concrete pad. Mr.
Cusimano's not licensed to do that.
MR. OSSORIO: Can you turn to page -- the first part, it says
Administrative Complaint. The first part of the exhibit, first page,
Contractor Licensing, Collier County, Florida --
MR. GUY: Yes, I--
MR. OSSORIO: -- Administrative Complaint, count one. Then
it goes to count two and count three. 4.1.18, the second page.
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
MR. OSSORIO: Can you please read that to the board, Mr. Guy.
MR. GUY: Proceeding on any job without obtaining applicable
permits or inspections from the city building and zoning division, or
the county building review and permitting department.
MR. OSSORIO: In your fair estimation of 4.1.18, he did not pull
a building permit?
MR. GUY: That is correct.
MR. OSSORIO: Okay. Can you look at 4.1.6 and read that to
the board.
MR. GUY: Disregards or violates in the performance of his
contracting business in Collier County any of the building, safety,
health, insurance or workers' compensation laws of the State of
Florida or ordinances of this county.
MR. OSSORIO: Since Mr. Guy -- since you are an inspector,
would you say it's a fair statement that that is a safety violation on that
address?
MR. GUY: Anything that's done without a permit and complete
plan review and compliance is a safety issue.
MR. OSSORIO: Can you turn to page -- first page, 4.1.5. Can
you read that to the board.
Page 47
February 21,2007
MR. GUY: Departing from or disregarding in any material
respect the plans or specifications of a construction job without the
consent of the owner or his duly authorized representative.
MR. OSSORIO: Can you please turn to page E-6.
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
MR. OSSORIO: And if you actually look at the description of
the work and you go a little bit of the way down at the very end, it
says all permitting. Can you read that for me.
MR. GUY: I'm not able to read it. It's not a very good copy.
MR. OSSORIO: Okay. It says description of work: The--
towards the end it says all permitting, electrical and gas are included,
as well as all notice of commencement.
To your knowledge, there was no building permit pulled?
MR. GUY: Absolutely.
MR. OSSORIO: And there was no notice of commencement
issued to the City of Naples?
MR. GUY: I'm not aware of any notice, no.
MR.OSSORIO: So it would be a fair statement that he violated
his terms of his contract; am I correct?
MR. GUY: Based on what I'm seeing here, yes.
MR.OSSORIO: We have no further questions.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Cusimano, you want to
come back up to the podium.
Do you have any questions for Mr. Guy? This is your chance to
cross and ask questions or cross-examine this gentleman for the
statements he's made against you.
MR. CUSIMANO: I understand that. I haven't -- at this point I
have no questions for Mr. Guy. Mr. Guy has been as helpful as he
could be.
The problem has been that the process overwhelmed me, and I
was very derelict in providing the necessary information in a timely
manner, thus resubmitting and having to be rereviewed. Time was
Page 48
February 21,2007
going by and one thing led to another and that's what happened. Mr.
Guy and Mr. Bollenback have been more than helpful, and in my
estimation have done what their job would describe, the description
would be.
MR. BLUM: So basically are you saying that you're going to
admit to the charges and let's move on with it? You don't have a
defense, is what I'm asking.
MR. CUSIMANO: I stand here in front of you guys admitting
the fact that I used poor communication with my office and we got
ahead of ourselves. I admit that I mismanaged the proj ect. I fully
mismanaged the project. I became overwhelmed with the permit
application procedures. We got ahead of ourselves.
The job is not complete. There is still more work to be done
there. The generator got put in.
If I can just express one thing. Like Mr. Guy did say, the City of
Naples is one tight place on their sites. And when we were there,
there's a fence, and I'm not going to get into too much -- well, the
fence which we thought, were led to believe was the property line,
when the Wise, Mr. Wise had a resurvey done, it was discovered at
that time that the fence was not the property line. And so we're
talking six inches disappeared on me. And then there was --
regardless, I admit that we mismanaged the project poorly.
But I can assure you gentlemen, assure you gentlemen, that there
was never any malice or intent to install the generator without a
permit. I had -- we've never done so anywhere else. We've always
pulled permits.
So I ask you know, to simplify this. That's basically it.
Now, I will admit that in the procedure a matter of inches here or
there, I really felt -- I feel if anything, Mr. Guy, if anything, that it
would be nice if somehow you can make arrangements with a
representative to help you on the site to determine things, whether or
not we're going to comply and give some advice other than -- which
Page 49
February 21,2007
would be terrific.
Now, whether the building department allows such a thing, that
would have helped. But once again, that is -- it would have just been
helpful, that's all.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One quick question. Aren't
there guidelines or codes that are followed for the licensed contractor
that he should be well aware of of how to install this unit without
having to have help from a city official or someone there to inspect
what he's done?
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman -- for the record, Mike Ossorio,
Collier County Contractor Licensing.
By his own testimony he's done 50. I consider him an expert.
The building department does inspections, does the building
permit, the inspector goes out and inspects it. It's up to the contractor
who is selling the item to make sure he fulfills his contract by getting
building permits and passing code.
On a term of when a contractor does work without a permit, this
is exactly what happens. Mr. Cusimano stated to me in my office that
he was present. He knew it was close. He poured the foundation for
the -- and proceeded the job without a building permit. That's a
chance you take.
It's not up to the county to go ahead and interpret what the
contractor wants to do, specifically an electrical contractor who's been
in town for many years.
MR. BARTOE: And if I may, another part of the procedure is
when the contractor makes the application, and you can see from Page
E-3 that Mr. Guy reviewed this permit application and revealed many
deficiencies and let the contractor know. That's part of the process
also. But I'm assuming these never got corrected.
MR. GUY: No, not to my knowledge.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's why the permit then was
overall dropped or --
Page 50
February 21,2007
MR. GUY: That's correct.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- extinguished, because he
didn't come back in and do his final items to qualify him to have that
permit.
MR. GUY: That's correct.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Any other questions for
Mr. Guy--
MR. CUSIMANO: And then --
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One more second, sir.
Any more questions for Mr. Guy?
MR. CUSIMANO: Well, I did, if I may, I did have -- I met with
Mr. Guy and Mr. Bollenback a couple of weeks ago, and they
suggested that I just hold off and don't do anything to the job site until
-- or reapply for the permit until this hearing. So based on that, there
has been no activity at the job.
And I was in communication with Mr. Anderson, who is Mr.
Wise's representative, and he was aware of that, too. That's why
there's been no communication over the last two and a half weeks.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, fine.
So no further questions for Mr. Guy?
MR. CUSIMANO: No.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Guy, you can have a seat,
if you'd like.
Mr. Kennette or county have anymore witnesses to call?
MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Joslin, I've got a couple of questions if we
can get Mr. Kennette up here.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Kennette, you took the picture that's
depicted in there, it's E-14? Did you take that picture?
MR. KENNETTE: Yes.
MR. ZACHARY: And there was earlier testimony that the
generators or the engines that use any petroleum product like propane
Page 51
February 21,2007
or whatever that that is powered by can't be within five feet of an
opening. I think Mr. Guy said that he couldn't tell by the pictures.
You were out there; is that correct?
MR. KENNETTE: Yes, I was.
MR. ZACHARY: Was that generator within five feet of that
opening in the wall?
MR. KENNETTE: That generator just about falls within five
feet. The item that's in question that's behind the generator is an AC
unit, an air conditioning unit, which is about a foot away from it.
There's also another window that you can't see on the right-hand
side because the pictures didn't come out. But on the right-hand side
of the generator, on the wall there's also a window there for the
garage. So there's two windows that are in violation of the distance.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, then, in your opinion,
could this generator in its present position be permitted at all?
MR. KENNETTE: No.
MR. ZACHARY: That's all I have.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any further questions for Mr.
Cusimano?
MR. KENNETTE: No, I don't.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any further questions of the
board, Mr. Cusimano?
MR. CUSIMANO: No further questions.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can I ask you both to sit down
and we'll --
MR. NEALE: They do get to make closing statements.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Closing statements?
Mr. Kennette, do you want to go first?
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, pardon me.
Mr. Cusimano has an opportunity to present his case, ifhe
wishes.
MR. NEALE: Yes, he has.
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February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry, all right. Excuse me
then, we'll let Mr. Cusimano go.
MR. CUSIMANO: Well, gentleman, basically I have -- I have
no other evidence. The generator is there.
I made a mistake. I mismanaged the project. There was never
any malicious intent to deceive the City of Naples building
department.
F or this -- for mismanaging the proj ect, I take full responsibility.
However, I don't feel that I -- well, I know in my heart that I never
intended it to be an act of deceit whatsoever.
That being said, I want to first of all apologize to the board for
taking up their time with this. I want to apologize to the City of
Naples, Mr. Guy and Mr. Bollenback for the situation and what's
happened here. I want to apologize to Mr. Wise and Mr. Anderson,
his representative, for disappointing them by mismanaging the project.
I know Mr. Wise is disappointed, he wanted his generator.
I would like to thank Mr. Wise and Mr. Anderson for being
patient with me and showing some restraint. They've been very
cooperative. They're fine gentlemen.
I want to thank Mr. Ossorio and Mr. Kennette for their advice
and their guidance.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Is there any reason I can ask
that you did not go ahead and finish trying to get this permit taken
care of? What made the ball drop?
MR. CUSIMANO: Well, as time went by the mismanagement
and the time went by in trying to resubmit, reorganize. Then I, in the
month of November, approximately the 15th, I took a medical leave of
absence, and I was gone from the state to New York from
approximately the middle of November till almost the middle of
January. And I didn't come back to work until the last week of
January. My dad was real ill and I went to New York to help my
mom. So I was not even available at that time.
Page 53
February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, but what I'm reading
here from the building and zoning division from the City of Naples is
that you had a letter that was written to you on August 26th that stated
all the questionable items that you needed to take care of so this
permit could have been processed.
MR. CUSIMANO: That's true. That's the first one. Then we did
-- we did submit another package after that that was also -- which I
was confident in, but apparently I misjudged having all my I's dotted
and T's crossed. And that was also -- I went -- they said come back
and pick up the package, you need more information.
So this -- that 26th reflects the rejection of the first application.
There wasn't another packet resubmitted. And then time went, several
days went by and that was deemed incomplete, too. So this is all
going on at the same time.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So in essence what you did
was that once you got this letter you kind of dropped the ball and it
never happened, it never continued the process to allow this to be
permitted to begin with. But yet the installation proceeded.
MR. CUSIMANO: Well, at that point -- the installation was just
two days, with a little bit of a pad and then putting the generator in. It
wasn't -- we're not talking about months worth of work going on. It
was a couple of days and that was it.
And in the meantime, the permit, the application process was still
-- in my estimation, I was still working on it. A, I was rejected once.
We resubmitted, waited again, and I was rej ected a second time. And
I've lost recollection whether I submitted the third time. But I have a
stack on my desk just waiting to try and resubmit.
My customer, Mr. Wise, would really love to have his generator.
And based on serving my customer, I extended some poor judgment
trying to accommodate my customer. And I'm also guilty of that.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. That pretty well
answers the questions.
Page 54
February 21, 2007
Anything else you have to go with your defense of your case?
MR. CUSIMANO: No. All I can ask is that the board would
please initiate a little understanding and leniency in this situation. I
once again repeat myself by saying there was no malice or intent to
deceive anyone. And that's what I have to say. Thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Anything for closing
statements? Mr. Bartoe?
MR. BARTOE: I have one question for both Mr. Cusimano and
Mr. Guy. I want to know if they believe that this unit can be legally
put on this property with a permit at some other location.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Say that again?
MR. BAR TOE: This location I don't believe it can be put at. It
doesn't meet setbacks, and due to the windows and doors. Is there
somewhere else on this property that through proper permitting that
this unit actually can be put on this property?
MR. GUY: It's possible.
MR. BARTOE: It's something that you feel that the contractor
and the city can work out?
MR. GUY: I don't know if I could go that far.
MR. NEALE: If Mr. Guy's going to respond, he has to respond
on the record.
MR. GUY: In answer to your question, I have not physically
been to the property, so without doing precise measurements, I
couldn't tell. But based on the copy that I was provided with through
Mr. Wise's representative of the most current survey, there are some
other possibilities that may not be in the location that it currently sits.
It may have to be in some other location.
But the issue, as you pointed out, was basically no room because
of the setback issues. And once you accommodate the setback issues,
then you have building restriction issues.
I wasn't able to see it from the other photograph, but this one here
clearly shows the proximity of an air conditioning unit and the
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February 21,2007
generator. That's not allowed either.
So I would have to say without visiting the site from this
photograph, from the survey I've seen this probably is not going to be
a possible location. Other locations would be based on submission.
They would have to actually physically go through that submission
process again. And we can very easily tell by that package whether or
not it's going to go through.
MR. BARTOE: Thank you.
MR. GUY: And it was rejected three times, just for the record.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Guy, while you're up there, sir, in your packet
and information that you have, can you give us the date that the
application was initially made?
MR. GUY: Sure. Could I have a moment?
MR. LEWIS: Sure.
And while you're looking at that, we already know for the record
that the initial rejection letter issued by you was August 26th. And if
you can, give us a chronological detail of the resubmission.
MR. GUY: Surely. The initial permit application was 8/1.
August 1 st was the initial application when it was actually physically
submitted to the City of Naples.
The first rejection letter was on the 3rd of the same month. It
was rejected for four reasons. And it was basically a lack of
application product, if you will. The package was essentially
incomplete as it was submitted. We asked for more information. We
outlined, delineated, if you will, the piece of information we need. I
have a copy of the letter with me.
It was then resubmitted sometime prior to August 26th when I
rejected it again. These letters are my actual review date, the actual
date that it's entered into the computer and that I formally produce a
letter.
The package is then forwarded back to the contractor for his
review and further resubmission. It's always his choice whether or not
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February 21,2007
he resubmits.
The third time it was rejected was October 17th. At that point in
time it was rej ected because of the fact that we were not comfortable
with Mr. Cusimano doing concrete work, which is out of the element
of his licensure.
There was no further submission after that point. There were
some meetings in which they asked some very pertinent questions.
There were never any formal resubmissions of any of the package.
MR. LEWIS: To the best of your knowledge, the final rejection
prior to today of October I believe 17th --
MR. GUY: October 17th, yes, sir.
MR. LEWIS: Was the only reason for rejection of that for the
concrete pad work, or was there other items that just weren't
addressed?
MR. GUY: The other items still not, to this date -- to this date
the other items have not yet been addressed.
MR. LEWIS: Okay, so the items on the letter of August 26th
rejection, review and rejection, those have not been addressed either?
MR. GUY: That's correct.
MR. LEWIS: Okay, thank you, sir.
MR. HERRIMAN: Mr. Guy, do you know when the pad was
installed and the generator?
MR. GUY: No, sir. That was all done without a permit, so we
would have never had any knowledge of when it was installed or by
whom. The only assumption we can make is there is no building
permit for that job, which official allows somebody to install the pads.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other questions?
(No response.)
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, Mr. Guy, you can
have a seat, if you'd like.
Does that answer your question, Mr. Bartoe?
MR. BARTOE: Yes, sir.
Page 57
February 21, 2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All right, we have heard some.
How about some closing statements from first Mr. Kennette.
MR. KENNETTE: You've heard the testimony that he did
violate the building codes. He did not knowingly -- or knowingly as a
licensed contractor, he knew that he needed to get permits for that
installation.
The photo shows that it's definitely hooked up with the gas lines
already connected to it ready for firing, as it shows more in the photo
that I have, and which is the photo that you have, that the lines are
connected to it from the gas company who did pull a permit for it to
go ahead and install the new gas tanks.
The county is looking for $1,000 for our administrative costs and
$1,000 for administrative costs for the City of Naples.
We'd like to give him two to three months to either get the
generator properly permitted and CO'd or removed and pay the
homeowner back the $13,900 deposit that was applied towards the
installation of that generator, and hold any further permitting
privileges in the county for six months.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: These are your
recommendations?
MR. KENNETTE: Yes.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. All right. Mr.
Cusimano, come back to the podium, please, and give your closing
statement.
You've heard the recommendations from the county --
MR. CUSIMANO: Yes.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: -- which I think are more than
lenient.
MR. CUSIMANO: Once again, I apologize. We will comply
with Collier County's decision, whatever it may be this morning, as
we heard.
We have briefly mentioned to Mr. Wise and Mr. Anderson that
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February 21,2007
even though it was something that Mr. Wise was hoping to have was
his generator, if it's not possible, we fully intend to remove the
generator, clean up the site and refund every bit of his money that's
owed, with negotiation with Mr. Anderson and Mr. Wise. It is
regarding the gas tank that was installed.
And we've had a brief conversation about it. It's forthcoming.
There has been no -- I've not tried to manipulate anything. And we
will fully restitute the monies agreed to and regrettably bow out of the
project.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay.
MR. KENNETTE: Mr. Chairman, I wanted to recommend that
my last statement on the six months' probation, just on probation, not
permitting privileges, he can still pull permits, but just being watched
for six months.
MR. BLUM: That's better.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. At this time I think
we're going to close the public hearing. I'll need a motion.
MR. BLUM: I had a question to ask the homeowner, the
homeowner's rep. Do we do that now or later?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Better do it now. Which one?
MR. BLUM: I guess it's Mr. Anderson.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You have to be sworn in,
please.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. BLUM: Without getting into the merits and who's right and
who's wrong, I think we've kind of established that. My only question
to you as the representative is what would the homeowner like to see
happen?
MR. ANDERSON: Basically we would just like to have a
generator installed, if possible, at the residence. That was our goal all
along, starting at the end of May.
MR. BLUM: If -- you'd be willing to allow Mr. Cusimano to
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February 21,2007
complete this installation if it could be done properly?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, we would allow him back on the site if
he was able to get a permit and be allowed to finish the job.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Are there going to be
restrictions on the placement of that unit, only because of -- you've
heard the testimony here, it may not be able to be placed where
possibly someone, yourself and maybe Mr. Cusimano dictated that
was where it was going to be placed. So it may be another location in
the household or on the property where that unit may have to go, just
to fall under the codes.
MR. ANDERSON: Right.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: You have no problem with
that?
MR. ANDERSON: The ownership is aware of that. And again,
we went out -- the owner went out and used his own money to update
the survey. So we really presented it. It shows that it's over the
setback, setback lines.
So that was really done for our own protection to find out,
because we're only interested in doing this properly. And that was
why we engaged a licensed contractor and turned all over the
permitting to him. Because it's a major project.
And we could have had the handyman, you know, run down the
street and get it from Home Depot, and I could run down here and try
to do a permitting and the like. That was not the approach we took.
We hired an experienced contractor to do the work. And, you know,
it's not inexpensive, but that's part of the process that, you know, that
you would pay to have everything done on a total turnkey project;
deal with the gas company and the like.
MR. BLUM: Mr. Cusimano has expressed -- my sense is that
he'd just as soon bailout of this thing and let you start over again. If
that's what happens, are you okay with that as well?
MR. ANDERSON: Well, if that's his decision. We have not
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February 21,2007
instituted any legal action at this time against Mr. Cusimano, so --
MR. BLUM: I think as a board we kind of --
MR. ANDERSON: We're trying to, you know, kind of wait and
see and tried to work things out.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I don't think that I heard those
words out of Mr. Cusimano, that he was willing --
MR. BLUM: No, I didn't hear the word. But, I don't know, I just
had a sense.
I think as a board, before we really decide how we're going to
rule on this thing if it comes to fines, we need to know what's going to
happen here, because we're going to have to look at it if he stays on
the job.
So which way is it going to go? I think we need to know that.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other questions for Mr. --
MR. BLUM: No, obviously he's got a willingness to go either
way, though. So no, thank you.
Maybe we need Mr. Cusimano back.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I would call Mr. Cusiamo (sic)
back one more time to the podium, please.
MR. BLUM: Cusimano.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'm sorry.
MR. CUSIMANO: Thank you.
MR. LEWIS: Work with your hands.
MR. BLUM: Do you have a preference which way to go with
this? Do you want to walk away from this and just take your losses
and go or do you want to make it right and do the job and finish it?
That requires a yes or no answer.
MR. CUSIMANO: Yes and no.
First of all, I would love to finish the proj ect, yes. But we've got
six inches one way and a few inches this way and something that way,
and it may not -- it appears it may not go there because we're in
limited space.
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February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, the question was,
though, if you're willing to do this, and there is a location on the
property through the survey that can be placed where it will fall into
code and where it will be able to be permitted and final ed, would that
satisfy your process of doing the job? Or no, you aren't interested --
MR. CUSIMANO: I can say yes to you, but if I may, Mr.
Kennette, we've met on the site with the owner and we've taken the
tape measure and we've measured and measured, and based on what
we've measured and tried and this, we're -- it's real inches tight.
And it appears, without someone that has an ability to make a
decision to see it on the site, six inches -- that's what we're talking
about is six inches --
MR. BLUM: So for all practical intents then, you're thinking it's
better to just take it away, give his money back and stop?
We kind of need to know which way you're going because that's
got to do with how we're going to deal with you. So we need to hear
how it's going to happen. The homeowner's good with it either way.
MR. LEWIS: If I may interject. I don't hear Mr. Cusimano
saying that. He's saying --
MR. BLUM: No, I don't either. I want to know.
MR. LEWIS: -- that if it can be permitted, he'll do the job. He
wants to do the job and finish the job. I believe that from the man. So
don't put words in the man's mouth.
I mean, let the permitting department decide whether or not
they're going to permit the operation, and then from that the
homeowner and the contractor can figure out their own way out of
this. Let's deal with what we've got in front of us, please.
MR. CUSIMANO: I am prepared to resubmit another
application, which Mr. Guy and Mr. Bollenback suggested I should
wait until after all this is decided.
At this point I still don't have a complete application. What I'm
missing is a detail for the concrete slab. I've talked to a structural
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February 21,2007
engineer at the City of Naples, he advised me on what they would
require for the pad. And I were (sic) able to provide a drawing and a
general contractor to come in and we'll lift the generator, redo the pad,
set it back down again in compliance, if possible.
MR. LEWIS: Sounds to me like you're well on your way, so
thank you.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Can we close the public
hearing now?
MR. HORN: Do we need a motion?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, we do.
MR. HORN: Make a motion to close the public hearing. Horn.
MR. LEWIS: Seconded, Lewis.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion and a second
to close the public hearing. All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
So moved.
You can have a seat now, if you'd like.
Gentlemen.
MR. NEALE: Let me do my thing here.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, let's get your input.
MR. NEALE: In a case like this, the board has to ascertain in its
deliberations that fundamental fairness and due process were afforded
to the respondent.
However, pursuant to our ordinance and the state statute, the
formal Rules of Evidence as set out in Florida Statutes do not apply.
The board shall consider solely evidence presented at this hearing
in the consideration of this matter. It shall exclude from its
deliberations irrelevant, immaterial and cumulative testimony.
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February 21, 2007
It shall admit and consider all other evidence of a type commonly
relied upon by a reasonably prudent person in the conduct of their
affairs. This is whether or not the evidence so admitted would be
admissible in a court of law or equity.
Hearsay may be used to explain or supplement any other
evidence, but by itself it's not sufficient to support a finding in this or
any other case unless it would be admissible over objection in a
regular civil court.
The standard of proof in this type of case wherein the respondent
may lose his privileges to practice his profession is that the evidence
presented by the complainant must prove the complainant's case in a
clear and convincing manner.
The burden of proof on the complainant is a larger burden than
the standard preponderance of evidence standard set in regular civil
cases.
However, the standards established for sanctions other than those
affecting the license is that of a preponderance of the evidence.
The standard in evidence are to be weighed solely as to the three
charges set out in the complaint as: Count one, violation of 4.1.5,
departing from or disregarding in any material respect to plans or
specifications of a construction job without the consent of the owner
or his duly authorized representative.
Count two: In violation of 4.1.6, which is, disregards or violates
in the performance of his contracting business in Collier County any
of the building, safety, health, insurance or workers' compo laws of the
State of Florida ordinances of this county.
Or Count three: 4.1.18, proceeding on any job without obtaining
applicable permits or inspections from the city building and zoning
division or the county building review and permitting department.
In order to support a finding that the respondent is in violation of
the ordinance, the board must find facts that show that the violations
were actually committed by the respondent. The facts must show to
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February 21,2007
the appropriate standard the legal conclusion that the respondent was
in violation of the relevant sections as written.
The charges that I have just read are the only ones the board may
decide upon, as these are the only ones to which the respondent has
had the opportunity to prepare a defense.
Any damages awarded must be those directly related to the
charges and may not be for matters unrelated.
The decision made by this board shall be stated orally at this
hearing and is effective upon being read.
The respondent, if found in violation, has certain appeal rights to
this board, the courts of this state and the State Construction Industry
Licensing Board, as set out in Collier County ordinance and in Florida
Statute and Rules.
If the board is unable to issue a decision immediately following
this hearing because of the questions of law or other matters of such a
nature that a decision may not be made at this hearing, the board may
withhold its decision until a subsequent meeting.
The board shall vote based upon the evidence presented on all
areas, and if it finds the respondent in violation, adopt the
administrative complaint.
It shall also make findings of fact and conclusions of law in
support of the charges set out in the administrative complaint.
So the board may proceed.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Discussion?
MR. LEWIS: I'm ready to make a motion, ifit please the board.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I'd just like to have maybe one
question. I'm not sure if it came out or not.
If this permit through Mr. Guy that he's been here and testified
that he is part of this permitting process, is this something that can be
handled in a relatively fast application packet?
In other words, can this be done quickly? I'm sure that ifhe
submits all the paperwork correctly and gets all the information to
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February 21,2007
him, that the permit could be applied for and hopefully gotten so that
the case could actually be ended and terminated and he could go on
with his life.
MR. BLUM: This is not a difficult job, like he said. The house
part of the wiring is probably done. The panel's on the wall. It's just a
matter of locating the unit for code. This whole thing could be finished
probably in a day or two, if permitting gets done.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Just so I make sure I heard it
right.
Okay, go ahead with your motion.
MR. LEWIS: If it please the board, in review of Case No.
2007-03 against license number ER-0011839, as petitioned before the
board by Allen Kennette, licensing compliance officer, versus James
V. Cusimano, d/b/a Cusimano Electric, Incorporated, the
administrative complaint in counts number one, 4.1.5, count number
two of 4.1.6 and count number three, 4.1.18, I ask that the board find
the respondent guilty of all three counts in accordance to the evidence
provided to the board at this meeting.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I need a second.
MR. HERRIMAN: Second, Herriman.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I've got a motion and a second.
All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
Motion carries, 5-0.
So, findings of fact. Is that where we're going?
MR. BLUM: Now you've got to come up with a penalty.
MR. NEALE: You can read through the order first and then --
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Order of the board, right?
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February 21,2007
MR. NEALE: Right. Order of the board up to penalty.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Findings of fact. Came for
public hearing before this board on February 21 st, 2007. The board
having heard testimony under oath, received evidence and heard
arguments respective to all appropriate matters, thereupon issues its
finding of fact, conclusions of law and order of the board as follows:
That James V. Cusimano, the holder of record of the certificate of
competency number ER-0011839, that the Board of Collier County
Commissioners, Florida is the complainant in this matter. That the
contractors licensing board has jurisdiction of the person of
respondent and that James V. Cusimano was present at the public
hearings and was not represented by counsel.
All notices required by Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105, as
amended, have been properly issued.
That the holder of certificate of competency number ER-0011839
is in violation of Sections 4.1.5, 4.1.6, 4.1.18 in the codified (sic) in
the following particulars.
That James V. Cusimano is in violation of sections -- same
sections, 4.1.5, 4.1.6, 4.1.18 of the Collier County Ordinance 91-105,
as amended, Collier County contractors license board ordinance.
Based upon the foregoing findings of fact and conclusions of law,
and pursuant to the authority granted in Chapter 489, Florida Statutes,
Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended, is hereby ordered
that the following disciplinary sanctions and related order is hereby
imposed upon the owner of contractor certificate number
ER-0011839.
N ow we can have the discussion, right? The penalty?
MR. NEALE: Now that the board has found the respondent in
violation of the ordinance, it has to decide on the sanctions to be
imposed. The sanctions are set out in the ordinance in Section 4.3.5.
Those sanctions which may be imposed include, number one, the
revocation of the certificate of competency of the respondent.
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February 21, 2007
Two, the suspension of the certificate of competency.
Three, the denial of the issuance or renewal of the certificate of
competency.
Four, probation of a reasonable length, not to exceed two years,
during which the contractor's contacting activities shall be under the
supervision of the Contractor Licensing Board and/or participation in
a duly accredited program of continuing education.
Probation may be revoked for cause by the board at a hearing
noticed to consider that purpose.
Number five, restitution.
Number six, a fine not to exceed $10,000.
Number seven, a public reprimand.
Number eight, reexamination requirement.
Number nine, denial of the issuance of permits or requiring
issuance of permits with conditions.
Or 10, reasonable legal and investigative costs.
In determining these sanctions, the board shall consider the
gravity of the violation, the impact of the violation, any actions taken
by the violator to correct the violation, any previous violations
committed by the violator, and any other evidence presented at this
hearing by the parties relevant as to the sanction that is appropriate for
the case, given its nature.
The board also shall issue a recommended penalty for the State
Construction Industry Licensing Board. That penalty may include a
recommendation for no further action or a recommendation of
suspension, revocation or restriction of the registration, or a fine to be
levied by that board.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Discussion? What do we
think, gentlemen?
MR. HORN: I have a question. Does the county have any prior
complaints or actions against this contractor?
MR. OSSORIO: None.
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February 21,2007
MR. BLUM: Once again, I have to go back to what Mr. Lewis
got upset with me about. It's got to do with how this job is going to be
finished or not finished or removed and started over. So now our
penalty has to do with how that happens. If it can be ascertained that
the job can be permitted and completed per code inspections, great,
I'm all for it, as outlined by Mr. Kennette.
If it cannot be or if it becomes prudent that it's just too cost
ineffective to relocate somewhere else, survey, site drawings, all those
things which may make just a terrible burden on somebody, then it
changes the way we rule the sanctions. And that's why I keep coming
back to that.
We need to know how this is going to be resolved. Can it in fact
be done? Somebody's got to tell us. If it can't, this is the way we'll
rule. If it can, this is the way we'll rule.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Blum, that's a permitting issue, and that's
something that will be done in a couple of weeks. Your penalties
should be both, both scenarios, just in case A, if it can't be done, B,
what would happen. We've done it last month, we've done it previous
cases before.
MR. BLUM: So you want an either/or penalty here, as far as--
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Cusimano signed a contract with his
homeowner. He has an obligation to fulfill it. If he wants to fulfill it,
great. Ifhe can't, he knows what he needs to do. And that's for any
contractor in this town.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have the recommendations
from the county for a $1,000 fine to Collier County for its time spent,
$1,000 to the city for their time spent, 90 days in which to re-ap and
get a permit for the job to complete it.
MR. BLUM: Are you making a motion?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No, I'm only stating what the
recommendations are. And then to hold his --
MR. BLUM: Probation.
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February 21,2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Put him on probation for six
months.
MR. BLUM: And ifit can't be done, then complete removal.
The removal's got to do with those underground gas tanks that were
done by a separate contractor. Can they remain? Has anybody
addressed the idea that these gas tanks are okay or not okay?
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Blum, I don't think that's really relevant.
MR. BLUM: It's not, okay.
MR. OSSORIO: It is what it is. Obviously it's got to be
removed. I mean, you're not going to put a gas tank underneath there
if there's no generator. That's going to have to be moved to another
location. And Mr. Cusimano's contracted for that, so he's going to
have to pay the burden. I'm sure Mr. Cusimano and the homeowner
are versed of they can come to some kind of terms or agreement.
But if this homeowner provides us with information in the future
that he has been financially harmed by this contractor, then that's
another charge and we will address that then.
MR. BLUM: Okay.
MR. NEALE: And if the board does adopt those suggested
sanctions, the contractor would be under the supervision of this board
for whatever period of probation is set forth, and the staff would have
the ability to bring him back in front of the board for further review.
MR. BLUM: Works for me. You need a motion?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Looking for a motion or input
or anymore discussion.
MR. LEWIS: No discussion.
MR. BLUM: Okay, I will make a motion that Cusimano
Electric, being duly found guilty of the charges as outlined, be fined
$1,000 in administrative county costs, $1,000 in administrative Naples
City costs. Be given three months to complete the job as per code. If
it is unable to be completed, then it has to completely be put back the
way it was before any work was started, to the customer's satisfaction.
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February 21,2007
Permitting for the next six months by Cusimano Electric will be
on probation under the supervision of Mr. Ossorio's office.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: If it can't be taken --
MR. BLUM: Right, if it has to be put back to original, all
monies would be refunded to the owner, homeowner, Mr. Wise.
MR.OSSORIO: In the amount of$13,900.
MR. BLUM: Thirteen, nine, exactly.
MR. HORN: Second, Horn.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have a motion and I have a
second. All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Mr. Cusimano has a question.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Hearing's closed.
MR. BLUM: We voted. It was unanimous.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: We have a motion and a
second. All in favor one more time.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
Motion carries, 5-0.
Based on the foregoing findings of fact and conclusions of law
pursuant to the authority granted in Chapter 489, Florida Statutes, and
Collier Ordinance 90-105, as amended, it is hereby ordered that the
following disciplinary sanctions and related order is hereby imposed
on the holder of contractor certificate number -- I'm sorry,
ER-0011839, James V. Cusimano or Cusimano Electric, Incorporated.
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February 21,2007
That he be given a $1,000 fine payable to Collier County, $1,000
fine payable to the City of Naples; given 90 days, three months, to
reapply for a permit; and to complete the installation of the generator
located at 4309 Crayton Road, Naples, Florida; and he be placed on
probation for a period of six months.
And also, if the generator or this application for permit cannot be
resolved and cannot be placed on the property, that all the monies that
were received from Mr. Cusimano are refunded to the homeowner in
the total of $13,900.
MR. NEALE: And I believe also that the generator and
everything would be removed.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And generator -- I'm sorry, all
the generator and all equipment related to that would be removed from
the premises.
MR. HERRIMAN: And that the property be taken back to its
original condition.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: That's right, the property be
brought back to its original condition.
It's done and ordered this 21st day of February.
MR. NEALE: And we also need a recommendation for the state.
MR. BLUM: No further action.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No further action for
recommendation to the state.
Anything else?
MR. NEALE: Motion to adjourn?
MR. BLUM: I make a motion to adjourn this meeting.
MR. LEWIS: Before you do --
MR. OSSORIO: Are we done with this case? I have some
maintenance things I want to talk to you about. Five minutes, if you
don't mind.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay, sure.
MR. OSSORIO: Couple things --
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February 21, 2007
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Cusimano, it's done. Your
case is over with, if you're wondering.
MR. CUSIMANO: I was listening to what he said. Did I
understand we're going to keep it here in the county and we're not
going to get the state involved?
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: As long as this goes like it's
supposed to.
MR. CUSIMANO: We'll remedy the situation, and thank you for
your decision under the circumstances. I humbly apologize and
consider myself lucky.
MR. BLUM: We wish everybody had that attitude.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure.
Okay, Michael.
MR.OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to give you an
update on a couple of things we're working on.
Now, the very first, we had a case last month dealing with
Courtney and horticulture. I think he was a landscaper and paving
company. He's returned all money and actually paid his thousand
dollar fine. So he is in good standing with us. So that's a win for us
and I appreciate the time you put into it last month.
The second case, Mr. Mantua. Unfortunately, we're having a little
more rough time with him. He has not come up with the funds.
We've proceeded against his license. We've put in the system that he is
null and void per the order. We sent out letters to homeowners, letting
them know that there's a -- their contractor has been null and void per
licensing board. And I'll be communicating with Robert Zachary in
the county attorney's office to see about getting some restitution for
this homeowner.
With that said, he might be in front of the board next month. It
depends. We haven't discussed that, but we will do that this week.
This order of Decco Homes, I know it's been hitting the papers.
Obviously you've probably read about it. We have been in
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February 21,2007
communication with DPR. They are taking a lead on it, since it is a
state certified contractor. And there's attorneys involved, they're suing
each other. Our policy of the board is that we don't really get into
third parties, when there's two lawsuits going.
With that said, these homeowners have been given direction by
our office to contact the State Construction Licensing Board and to
proceed with the State Recovery Fund. Every homeowner has an
obligation, a right to do that. It's a long, drawn-out process. And
these homeowners are doing what they need to do.
I just hope that anyone out there that is watching or listening is
that they really read their contract and check and do their homework
and look at their references before they hire any contractor.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Just like the gentleman just
said a few minutes ago, that he could have got a handyman to do this
generator situation, but he chose to go another route, and it still didn't
work sometimes.
MR. OSSORIO: Unfortunately, I believe that generator is
probably too large, but it's not my place to say. He might be able to
come back and lower their wattage, whatever they do, and they can
get it legal there. So that's something they're going to work on, but
that's something that's none of our business. That's between a
contractor and a homeowner.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. I need a motion.
Anything else?
MR. OSSORIO: Nothing else.
MR. LEWIS: Move to adjourn.
MR. BLUM: Second.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Got a motion and a second.
All in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HERRIMAN: Aye.
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February 21,2007
MR. HORN: Aye.
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye.
All adjourned.
*****************
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Acting Chair at 11:29 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR
LICENSING BOARD
RICHARD JOSLIN, Acting Chairman
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
,
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY CHERIE' NOTTINGHAM
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