CCPC Minutes 02/01/2007 R
February 1, 2007
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples, Florida February 1, 2007
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Planning
Commission in and for the County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 8:30 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION
in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida,
with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Mark Strain
Lindy Adelstein
Donna Reed Caron
Tor Kolflat
Paul Midney (Absent)
Robert Murray
Brad Schiffer
Russell Tuff
Robert Vigliotti
ALSO PRESENT:
Jeffrey Klatzkow, Assistant County Attorney
Joseph Schmitt, Community Dev. & Environmental Services
Page 1
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WILL MEET AT 8:30 A.M., THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1,2007, IN THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM, ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, COUNTY
GOVERNMENT CENTER, 3301 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, NAPLES, FLORIDA:
NOTE: INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO 5 MINUTES ON ANY
ITEM. INDIVIDUALS SELECTED TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF AN
ORGANIZATION OR GROUP ARE ENCOURAGED AND MAY BE ALLOTTED 10
MINUTES TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM IF SO RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
PERSONS WISHING TO HAVE WRITTEN OR GRAPHIC MATERIALS INCLUDED
IN THE CCPC AGENDA PACKETS MUST SUBMIT SAID MATERIAL A MINIMUM
OF 10 DAYS PRIOR TO THE RESPECTIVE PUBLIC HEARING. IN ANY CASE,
WRITTEN MATERIALS INTENDED TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE CCPC SHALL
BE SUBMITTED TO THE APPROPRIATE COUNTY STAFF A MINIMUM OF
SEVEN DAYS PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALL MATERIAL USED IN
PRESENTATIONS BEFORE THE CCPC WILL BECOME A PERMANENT PART OF
THE RECORD AND WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IF APPLICABLE.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THE CCPC WILL
NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND
THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ROLL CALL BY CLERK
3. ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
4. PLANNING COMMISSION ABSENCES
5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - DECEMBER 15,2006, EAR SPECIAL MEETING
6. BCC REPORT- RECAPS - Not Available at this time
7. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
8. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. Petition: BD-2006-AR-I0674, Raymond Young, represented by Turrell and Associates, is requesting a 19-
foot boat dock extension from the allowed 20 feet for a total protrusion of 39 feet into the waterway. The
subject property is located at 147 Windward Cay, Port of the Islands Subdivision, Lot 48, Section 9,
Township 52 South, Range 28 East, Collier County, Florida. (Coordinator: Ashley Blair)
9. OLD BUSINESS - Presentation by Dan Summers Concerning an Evacuation Study
TO BE HEARD PRIOR TO LAND USE PETITION
10. NEW BUSINESS
11. PUBLIC COMMENT ITEM
12. DISCUSSION OF ADDENDA
13. ADJOURN
02-01-07 eepe AgendaIRB/sp
1
February 1, 2007
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Would everybody rise for the pledge of
allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Good morning, and welcome to the
February 1 st meeting of the Collier County Planning Commission.
First thing on today's agenda is roll call by the clerk.
Ms. Caron?
Item #2
ROLL CALL BY CLERK
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Kolflat?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Midney is absent. Ms. Caron
is here.
Mr. Strain?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Adelstein?
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Murray?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Vigliotti?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Present.
COMMISSIONER CARON: And Mr. Tuff?
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Here.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, thank you.
Item #3
Page 2
February 1, 2007
ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
Addenda to the agenda. There was a note under old business that
the presentation by Dan Summers would be first. The applicant had
called and asked, due to conflicts that they have, if they could actually
hear their petition first, and Mr. Summers had no problem with that.
So we will switch the agenda back to where the advertised public
hearing will be the first thing heard this morning.
Item #4
PLANNING COMMISSION ABSENCES
Planning Commission absences for our next meeting this
afternoon at 5:00. Mr. Tuff won't be here. Anybody else?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: I will not be here.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Kolflat will not be here. So that we
still have a quorum. Because I know Mr. Midney indicated he would
be here.
And our next meeting after that will be February 15th. Is
everybody -- anybody know if they're not going to be here on the
15th? Okay.
So Ray, and from the schedule that we now have gotten, there are
no other meetings between now and -- between tonight and the 15th;
is that right?
MR. BELLOWS: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Great. Thank you.
Item #5
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - DECEMBER 15, 2006, EAR
SPECIAL MEETING
Page 3
February 1, 2007
Approval of minutes for the December 15th EAR Special
Meeting. They're a whole page and a half. That was an easy one for
the court reporter.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I'll take it.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Are there any corrections, though,
Brad?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: It looked good to me.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Motion to accept those minutes.
Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Adelstein seconded.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you.
Item #6
BCC REPORT - RECAPS
Chairman's report -- or BCC report. Not available.
Ray, there's nothing new to report?
MR. BELLOWS: We have some recaps, if you'd like.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay.
Page 4
February 1, 2007
MR. BELLOWS: On January 23rd, the Board of County
Commissioners heard the sign variance for the Swamp Buggy. That
was approved on the summary agenda.
You also heard the PUD amendment for Club Estates that
converted to the Homes of Islandia, and have the companion item
L.A.S.I.P. CFPUD. That was approved 5-0.
The Pioneer Lakes PUD and development order amendment was
continued. I believe the reasons were traffic issues related concerns,
and the petitioner wanted time to address those.
The Pineview PUD amendment for Auto Sales, that was
approved 5-0.
The 1-75 Alligator Alley PUD amendment was continued to
February 13th.
And the PUD extension for Terafina was approved, but it was
approved with the concept that the proj ect wasn't -- the timing of the
five-year or the three-year time frame for approved PUDs to expire, it
wasn't started, and it was told, in other words, because of government
preventing them to proceed. And that vote was approved 3-2.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Thank you, Ray.
Item #7
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
Chairman's report. Well, with all that we have happening today,
I don't have any.
Item #8A
PETITION: BD-2006-AR-I0674
Page 5
February 1, 2007
Which brings us to our first advertised public hearing.
Would all those wishing to speak on behalf of this matter, please
rise to be sworn in by the court reporter.
(All speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: This is for Petition BD-2006-AR-10674.
Raymond Young, represented by Turrell & Associates for a dock
extension at 147 Winward Cay.
Anybody -- any disclosures on the part of Planning Commission?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I had a discussion with the applicant,
but it really was about the timing of this dock extension, not the issues
really at hand.
Other than that, we'll move forward.
Before we do, though, Rocky, there's a gentleman, Steve is here
from the county staff, and he has done a response to the Planning
Commission in regards to how the riparian rights are established by
line.
Brad, I think this was an issue that you had brought up at a prior
meeting?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I wanted to see what the preferences
were for this board. The riparian rights data that Steve has acquired
and the sketches and the texts were passed out and left on your places
this morning, this document here.
We can either take this and read it at our leisure and then maybe
come back with questions in the future, or Steve is here right now if
you would prefer some presentation or discussion on it prior to being
able to read it. It's up to the pleasure of the board.
Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I think what I'd like to do is take
it back and read it and then at the next boat dock -- would Steve be
here for that? Let's look at it then, or --
Page 6
February 1, 2007
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That's fine. I mean, might we -- might
you consider this: Take it and read it and if you have any questions
just e-mail staff to let them know that yeah, we will have questions at
the next dock hearing and maybe Steve could come back for whenever
that occurs. Does that work for everybody?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: The exhibit you have, are they
large versions of what we have?
MR. STEPHENS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: How about the rest of you, are you okay
with that?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Fine.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Steve, if you could just kind of hang
around till we get past this one dock one, just in case there's any
riparian rights issues that may come up, that would just make sure
everything's done right today.
Okay, with that, Rocky, it's all yours.
MR. SCOFIELD: I'm sure there won't be any questions.
Good morning. Rocky Scofield, for the record, with Turrell &
Associates, representing Raymond Young, the applicant.
Mr. Young is -- has a lot in Port of the Islands. This is a standard
boat dock extension, in which almost all the lots in Port of the Islands
have extensions in the Cays, Phase 2. That's the easterly subdivision
with the rip-rap.
The northerly one has the vertical seawalls. But all the ones over
on this side, it's rip-rap shorelines, which vegetation is grown up
shallow near the shores, so most of them request boat dock extensions.
The handout you got on the aerial just shows the docks in the
surrounding area and how far out they stick into the canal.
I've been before this commission before and have done quite a
few of these in this area. Up to 50 feet into the waterways. The
waterways are quite large, so it doesn't pose any problems.
Page 7
February 1, 2007
We're requesting a 19-foot extension today for a total of39 feet
into a waterway that's approximately 225 feet. So there's no obstacles
to navigation, there's no problem with sight from the neighbors, view
problems.
I'll put a larger version of the aerial overlay on here.
That's the dock on the aerial overlay. You can see the vegetation
on the shore. The back side of the dock is not usable. The vegetation
and the shallow water go out to the main dock, the T -dock. There's a
boat lift on one side. And Port of the Islands, you're only -- under the
manatee conditions, you're only allowed one boat per 100 feet of
shoreline. We're showing one boat -- one boat lift on this dock.
And that's just the dock drawing.
It's fairly straightforward. If there's any questions, I'd be happy
to answer them.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Are there any questions?
Recommendation to --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Oh, yeah.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Oh, you have a question?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Me? Yes.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Of course.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Interesting, a number of
questions, actually.
On the dock, it looks as almost two vessels can be in there. I
realize one potentially being a lift.
Is that an appropriate thing, to have it that long, or is that
something you have --
MR. SCOFIELD: Yeah, this question came up with the
environmental department. I met with Steve Linberger. I went over
to the department and met with him and he asked some of these
questions.
The thing is, the back of the dock, as I said, is not usable. The
owner would like an area where he can -- you know, it's really nice to
Page 8
February 1, 2007
have a dock where you can pull your boat up to and you don't have to
pull it on the lift every time when you're in and out.
Also, if a friend or neighbor wants to come by, there's an area
that they can pull up to. There's also, when your boat's on the lift,
you've got an area you can go out and fish off of. So there's not
excessive deck area on this proposal.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I understand. I don't have a
personal problem with it. But you indicated that in Port of the Islands
you should only have -- something about having a restriction to one
boat?
MR. SCOFIELD: They restrict the owners to one vessel.
Doesn't mean transients and friends can't come in and see you or
you've got a place to fish from.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. So there's no restriction
in terms of whether opportunity could be there for somebody else __
MR. SCOFIELD: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: -- that's fine.
Okay. I was looking at the -- looking at the pictures that were
taken. And there's one on Page 5. Seems close to the shore was my
notation to myself. It's only a 100- foot lot, and it appears that this is
going to be in the middle.
But just the thought, the picture, and the picture below it doesn't
really serve much of a purpose for the visualization that I'd like to be
able to make to get a better understanding. And I appreciate the
opportunity to do it here as well, to amplify. But if you look at that
picture analytically, you can see it doesn't really give you a whole lot
to go by.
And with all of that -- all of the fauna there, it's difficult -- no,
flora, excuse me -- difficult to appreciate.
Let me go into some of the more solid issues, though.
You indicated 15 on one and 29 on the other.
MR. SCOFIELD: That's correct.
Page 9
February 1, 2007
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: That's the reasons, of course, the
number of -- struggling with the word here for the -- what is it? What
are the material, the flowers? They're not flowers. Damn, I'm having
a good morning, I can see. I apologize, I did a moment here.
MR. SCOFIELD: The vegetation?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: The vegetation is what I'm
trying to relate to. My apologies for this.
Is it because of the vegetation that you've chosen to set it back
that far, or that -- or is it because of the configuration of the dock that
you want to realize? It's pretty much in the center of the property.
MR. SCOFIELD: Okay, if you look at that dock on that aerial
overlay, you can see the vegetation. That's why it's set back 15 feet
from one side and 29 from the other side.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Right.
MR. SCOFIELD: Just to fit it in there, and without going out
any further.
The county setbacks are 15 feet and that's -- you know, that's
what a lot of these docks are down here.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Right.
Well, when I looked at your proposed dock layout -- and I'm
relating to where you say, a total protrusion of 39 feet. And I noted on
this line, I don't know how to guide you to the particular document,
but it's -- says Young dock proposed dock layout.
MR. SCOFIELD: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And it shows the 39 feet. I guess
that's the one that's there. No, it's not. I was trying to figure out where
the line was closest to the property, what that ended at.
I guess what I'm driving at, on this particular document, there is
-- excuse me?
MR. SCOFIELD: I don't know if this helps you or not.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Well, yeah, I guess we can start
to work with this.
Page 10
February 1, 2007
The points where it's marked A and A, I can see that goes to what
I believe to be the property line on A. But on the other one where you
say the total protrusion comes from, you have 39 feet, but it's probably
10 feet, perhaps less, from the property line.
You know, maybe you should look at the --
MR. SCOFIELD: The mean high water line is the property line.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. For the purposes of this,
that's what you're saying?
MR. SCOFIELD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. That clarifies that for me,
thank you.
One final point. Do we consider the distance that you have, what
is it, 225 feet?
MR. SCOFIELD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Do we consider that to be the
navigable distance, or does that --
MR. SCOFIELD: No.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: -- include absolute shoreline?
MR. SCOFIELD: No, that is the distance, the measure from the
mean high water to the mean high water.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Mean high water to mean high
water.
MR. SCOFIELD: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Regardless of whatever
vegetation it is.
MR. SCOFIELD: Usually that's the way it is.
In some cases that we bring before you, we distinguish between
navigable waterways, especially when you have mean high waters that
go way back into mangroves and they extend out maybe, you know,
quite a bit of distance into the waterway which isn't navigable, you
know.
So you may have a 400-foot waterway but you only may have
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February 1,2007
100 feet navigable waterway. And in cases like that, we distinguish.
On very wide canals like this, there is no issue with navigation.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. The reason I raised the
question is because you indicated it was an estimate, and I wasn't sure
what you were taking into consideration.
MR. SCOFIELD: Well, when we say estimate, it's usually with a
foot or two.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay, good.
MR. SCOFIELD: We pull that off of not only surveys by
surveyors, but also aerial. We measure that off of aerials.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: You've answered my questions,
I appreciate that. And my apologies for having a senior moment.
MR. SCOFIELD: Okay.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Kolflat?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Yes. The water channel that
comes in from the Gulf, what is the depth of that now?
MR. SCOFIELD: The Fakaunion Canal?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Yes.
MR. SCOFIELD: You know, I think it's around five; five to six
feet at the best.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Have they dredged that recently
at all?
MR. SCOFIELD: Not that I know of.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: But you can get a five-foot draft
in there?
MR. SCOFIELD: Yes, sir. Actually, there's -- the area, not the
canal going out to the Gulf, but the areas in closer in there has been
dredged. There's a marina that's been installed in there, fairly large
manna.
The old marina there at Port of the Islands, it's under new
ownership and they've revamped it and done dredging in there. So
yeah, larger -- there's boats up to 50 feet that can get in here.
Page 12
February 1, 2007
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Rocky, let's try to simplify this. Have
the neighbors complained at all?
MR. SCOFIELD: No.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Has anybody complained at all?
MR. SCOFIELD: No.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: You're not going out beyond any--
longer than anything on that block that I can see. In fact, you're less
than everything on the block.
MR. SCOFIELD: Right. I said earlier, we've got extensions in
this area, Port of the Islands, out to 50 feet, and there's never been any
complaints.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay.
MR. SCOFIELD: I don't see too many people here today.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I don't either. Thank you, Rocky.
Is there any other questions of the applicant?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, staff want to provide any kind of
short summary, if they'd like?
MS. BLAIR: Good morning. Ashley Blair, for the record.
This petition does meet all of the primary criteria and secondary
criteria. I haven't received any letters of objection.
If you guys have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Any questions of staff?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Ashley, you keep getting the easy -- oh,
you may not. Mr. Vigliotti wants a real estate sign to put up there so
the City of Naples can take it down again.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: I just wanted to make a motion
to approve.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We've got to close the public hearing
first.
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February 1,2007
I don't think there's any other questions. Thank you, Ashley.
Now, are there any public speakers, Ray?
MR. BELLOWS: No one has registered.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank God.
Okay, is there -- we'll close the public hearing. Mr. Vigliotti, do
you have amotion?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Yes, I still will make that
motion.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: What motion?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Great. Is there a second to the motion?
COMMISSIONER TUFF: (Indicating.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Tuff raised his hand first, so Mr.
Tuff will second it.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries.
We are done. Thank you.
Steve, I want to thank you very much for your attendance and
especially the detailed report that you provided. I'm sure that we will
read it and we'll put you through some kind of torture test later in the
future.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Could I have about five
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February 1, 2007
minutes to talk to our court reporter? All of us together. It's not on
the agenda, that's why I'm asking, can I do it.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yeah. Is it something that can wait till
old business, or do you want to bring it up before Dan Summers
speaks?
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: However you want to do it.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, old business would be more
appropriate, because the next item on our agenda is Dan Summers.
But it's up to you. If it's necessary --
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: It's not -- it is a necessary,
because two different groups make the statement differently. Do you
put -- do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the
truth, so help you God. That is --
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Why don't we just bring it up during
new business then.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: I was going to ask Lindy to
speak into the mic. I couldn't quite --
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I was just going to do the same thing as
well. Thank you, Mr. Kolflat.
Lindy, when you talk, you've got to bring that mic closer.
You've got to speak slower, like I do. And we'll bring your issue up
during new business.
Okay. With that, Mr. Summers, welcome.
MR. SUMMERS: Good morning.
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, good morning. Dan Summers,
Director of the Bureau of Emergency Services. And I hope you're
doing well this morning. Bear with me and let me get our technology
on board here.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: One thing I'd like to mention to you,
Dan, is that there are probably questions from various members, and
in the past when we've had a document like this, if we -- to ask our
Page 15
February 1, 2007
questions after your presentation.
MR. SUMMERS: Very well.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I would assume that would help you get
through your presentation, and maybe we could go page by page then
through the document and ask any questions we may have.
MR. SUMMERS: You're certainly welcome to do that, Mr.
Chairman, thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you.
Item #9
OLD BUSINESS - PRESENTATION BY DAN SUMMERS
CONCERNING AN EVACUATION STUDY
MR. SUMMERS: Folks, good morning. Dan Summers.
I'm going to try to separate myself between first and second
person this morning. I do not have the consultants here. Was not __
we only had one trip for them to make a report. So I'll share with you
the consultant's findings as we have in the power point illustration. I'll
try not to side bar too much as the customer for this particular
document, but I will do that periodically and be available to answer
your questions.
Again, the title of this was abbreviated hurricane evacuation
restudy for Collier County. The contractor, through a selective bid
process, was Dewberry and Davis. And as consulting engineers for
that, very prevalent in hurricane evacuation study, FEMA tasking type
opportunities as well.
The lead project manager for that was a gentleman by the name
of Bill Massey. Bill's recently retired as hurricane program manager
for FEMA about two or three years ago.
Betty Hearn Morrow, well respected in our emergency
management community, with Sociological Research, out of Miami.
Page 16
February 1,2007
Trand Systems was also involved, and their principal there was a
gentleman by the name of Craig Miller.
Let me tell you -- let me preface this document by what we say
the term abbreviated hurricane evacuation restudy.
By no stretch of the imagination did Collier County Emergency
Management have, nor did we think it was appropriate to seek
resources for what's termed a full hurricane evacuation restudy.
That -- a full hurricane evacuation restudy, which is still
relatively a new instrument in our emergency management industry is
millions and millions of dollars, and those typically have been efforts
at the state level, the FEMA level, even Corps of Engineers level to do
some of the early hurricane evacuation studies that were done years
ago, based on -- with a great deal of that being behavioral analysis
from experience, and also transportation modeling.
This request did not get into any detailed transportation
modeling, it was just not within the scope and certainly not within our
budget.
Having said that, FEMA and the State of Florida, any time there's
a disaster -- if I can digress for a minute. Any time there's a disaster,
FEMA wisely sets aside a percentage of the cost of that disaster at the
state and local level for mitigation efforts that can -- funds that can be
available, not only for the state but at the local level.
Well, the State of Florida, and I truly compliment them, are going
to take some of their assignment of that mitigation money from
FEMA, partner with FEMA and several other agencies, and plan on
initiating a state-wide coastal hurricane evacuation study, very, very
large program, and that will probably be managed out of one of the
regional planning councils, I believe in the Tallahassee area I believe
will kind of be the focal point for that.
It will involve local emergency managers, but a great deal of
transportation modeling.
So there is not any significant transportation modeling in here,
Page 1 7
February 1,2007
it's not within our budget or scope, but what this does do is sort of give
me an update between the '99 and '01 studies -- '99 data, '01
compilation of that data. And today to kind of help me bridge the gap
and stay accurate, because it will probably be three years before the
state and FEMA finish this detailed transportation modeling.
Our scope of work was to just sort of revisit from an outside
perspective some of our evacuation timing issues. And you know
that's probably the hardest thing I do is to try to make that solid
recommendation for pulling the trigger on evacuation
recommendations.
Talk a little bit about routes. Talk a little bit about supplemental
traffic controls, since we're doing better with some of the technology.
And at least getting the emergency management side of the house
spun up on that.
Additional signage recommendations and some improved use of
GIS.
And GIS is really an exciting arena for emergency planners now.
We find out that we can do more with a GIS map than we ever can do
in 20 pages of emergency plans. So really we are working hard in
trying to invest our limited resources and doing more GIS real time;
take some of the existing data, match it with real time disaster
scenarios and really be a whole lot more efficient in our response.
FEMA also does periodically what they call behavior analysis.
And they broker this out to typically to the universities who will go in
and periodically after a disaster make contact with disaster victims and
survey their behavioral response. And that behavioral response can be
anything like did you understand the state and local government
warning, did you make a conscious decision not to leave at 5 :00 p.m.
but leave at 6:00 a.m. the next morning. You know, where did you
receive your source of information, that kind of thing.
So that data, that behavioral analysis, FEMA had done -- we had
a series of storms. As you know, we went through Charley and Wilma
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February 1, 2007
and then of course the Katrina incident. Well, that work all the way
back to Charley kept getting delayed in the completion of that survey.
And I desperately wanted some of that survey data to be available.
But FEMA was held back just because of competing priorities. So we
were glad that we finally got at least FEMA's draft behavioral analysis
to look at. Anything we can do to improve efficiency and subsequent
findings.
Betty Murrow talked a little bit about the behavioral assessment.
And for the sake of planning purposes, this was actually some of the
demographic data that she pulled from the county website. It was not
our goal to dispute those in terms of actual planning numbers, but it
was just -- again, for me, I always take a broad brush worst case
scenario, and so these were the numbers that I was looking at.
F or me, I always maintain an interest there on household sizes, as
we use some planning formulas, you know, the 1.25 cars per
household for evacuation or something like that.
So those were some of the things, as an example, that we take a
look at, again, looking at some of our population projections.
What I think was most helpful here is from Ms. Murrow's
perspective was to remind me about what may be a potentially
vulnerable population. And as we look at those household without
cars, the median age, those with disabilities, female heads of
household, females with children, Hispanics, and so those are target
areas that I really work hard to get the emergency message out to and
the emergency preparedness theme, you know, the family get ready
type discussion. So we work hard and we're doing a better job every
year I think of targeting that. We've done a much better job. I have to
compliment Jaime Sarbaugh, our public information officer, for
reaching out to the Hispanic radio stations, working with Hispanic TV,
getting more publications available in Spanish.
We've had great support from the church community as it relates
to disaster preparedness in our Hispanic community. So again,
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February 1,2007
working hard to make sure that that group is understood.
The demographics that Betty brought to our attention a little bit
were obviously as we look at the scheme of things, why we have the
term very effluent community there, is that we associate an emergency
planning -- the affluency with being mobile. And so being mobile
means that there's not a real issue in terms of challenging evacuations.
We talked a little bit about the renter's population here, and
obviously a great of that being seasonal type activity. The good news
right now, or generally speaking, I can't tell you during our peak
hurricane periods of August and September what our rental capacity
is, or what it might be at -- I'm sorry, not capacity but census. But I do
have -- the Chamber of Commerce and tourism are plugged into the
Emergency Operations Center, so they can give me a general feel
about that census, generally speaking, during peak hurricane seasons.
The other part here is talking about this -- the number of folks
with disabilities. And we have to be very, very careful to realize that
as emergency managers, just because we have a significant population
disability doesn't mean that they're not mobile. And they all have
either transportation capability, they have transportation resources,
and in many cases, with a lot of disabled folks, even their caregivers,
home health agencies and that type of thing, have already worked out
a disaster plan or a disaster contingency for them.
And this comment here about emergency management has a very
strong PSN, that's persons with special needs, registration program.
We work very hard every day to update a database of those
individuals that really have to rely on local government for some type
of transportation and continuity of care during a disaster. That
number fluctuates daily and it really -- we'll have a sudden onset of
PSN registration as the tropics begin to become active.
But we maintain about 1,600 individuals in our database. And
we really have to do, kind of in a global fashion, we really have to do
some individual care for those 1,600 individuals that meet that criteria
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February 1, 2007
statutory for some of this hurricane protection evacuation relocation,
et cetera. So we work hard with that population.
And I think we advertise that a lot. We have great cooperation
from our partners, home health agencies, in getting those folks that are
the most vulnerable registered, and I think we do a pretty good job
with that.
In terms of Immokalee, we asked our consultants to actually go
back and spend a little time with us and help us make sure we
understood all of the key issues in Immokalee.
Good news/bad news. The good news of course is that we don't
worry about storm surge in the Immokalee area, and they are far
inland. Doesn't mean they're not susceptible to strong winds, doesn't
mean that there's not substandard housing out there that doesn't meet
the wind codes. We realize that; that's always a challenge. But what
we found out -- what was most interesting there is -- and we really sort
of -- we had the taste of this from the last storms, is that we really
need to pay a little more attention, not necessarily in family sheltering
in that area, but generally traditionally predominantly male disaster
housing out there. And particularly for the immediate shelter issues.
And I know a lot of agencies are working in a lot of arenas to
improve that migrant farm housing. Are we at the point for wind
resistant migrant housing? I'm not sure we're there yet. That's a
Department of Agriculture and Health Department's type issue.
But I do know now that one of the things I need to do in my
battle plan pre-storm event is pay a little more attention to the fact that
we may just have a high male population in some of that shelter
scenarios. So I can make plans in my shelter management
accordingly.
Who will evacuate? Generally our folks in the coast have -- we
have very good compliance. And it may be that folks realize hey, I
just don't want the inconvenience. I'm not necessarily concerned that
my coastal structure may not survive, that's not always the case. And
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February 1, 2007
what we have not illustrated in Collier County, and we've been blessed
to the effect, that most of these storms have been wind events, not
storm surge events. And the wind event that we've been through, such
as Wilma, minimal surge impact.
We know, thank heavens, as I have said to Mr. Mudd, that was
victory for building codes, because we did very, very well in the wind
environment. We all know that when you start putting three, six or
nine feet of water over land, you know that that scenario, the recovery
time and the recovery process is drastically different.
We know from experience folks are more likely to evacuate if
they perceive risk. And that's my job is to try to convey, with the help
of the media and the board, when we activate a state of emergency, to
really validate risk.
I worry about that. And I have to send a strong message. I have
to make sure that message is consistent and I have to make sure that
message is delivered on time, and to, most importantly, make sure that
folks have ample time to go through the decision process. And I've
learned this through many, many storm events in coastal North
Carolina. I caught myself doing it where even local government said
hey, you need to start the evacuation process at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow
morning. Well, rest assured, if I was John Q. Public, I'd wake up at
5:00, check the weather channel, call my neighbor, what are you
doing, what kind of things are our local government doing to get
ready. And so I will evaluate my decision outside of the governmental
channels, just to kind of get a flare for what my neighbor's doing.
And I made the -- just to give you an example, in Carolina I will
tell you that I think our most successful evacuations took place on
barrier islands when three or more U-hauls showed up that morning to
move out valuable goods. And when folks saw their neighbor with a
U-haul getting ready for a storm, that's the best way to get compliance
I've ever seen. But those kind of things are -- that's just human nature,
is my point, is that we have to make sure we try to sell that message.
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February 1, 2007
And again, we don't want to let our residents be in a false sense
of security with a storm because they have not had significant storm
surge events.
Talked a little bit about evacuation rates. The Baker study that
was done in conjunction with FEMA looks a little bit at the evacuation
heights -- I'm sorry, evacuation rates historically and what we see.
It seems that 25 percent evacuation compliance is a pretty good
hypothetical number. But what we all have trouble doing in the
emergency management realm is where that is 25 percent
concentrated. And that's typically -- we only measure it county-wide.
So if we had poor compliance in the Estates but we had very high
compliance in the coast, we have a hard time sort of divvying that out.
But we know generally evacuation compliance works pretty well and
we have pretty good percentages with that.
When we kick off these storm events as Category 3 or above -- in
our Atlantic Coast and Gulf Coast history, Cat. 3 and above,
everybody seems to think hey, that's my family action plan, Cat. 3 we
don't need to be here. And our good friend, Max Mayfield, who just
retired at the Hurricane Center, is very, very good about making sure
that his messages from the forecast center are as accurate as they can
be and making sure that anticipated changes in the forecast are clearly
understood.
We look a little bit in terms of the projected estimates of
evacuation and shelter use in Collier County. And I will tell you, of
course Charley and Wilma really sort of peaked the numbers there in
terms of sheltering capacity, or shelter numbers here. They hit the
targets we were thinking they were going to hit.
We have a great working relationship with Collier County district
schools in that shelter environment there. An absolute great player
with us and involve us to the extent possible during discussions of new
construction, shelter retrofit. They have a very aggressive posture, in
my opinion, with how they harden their buildings for sheltering. And
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February 1, 2007
we really are doing a pretty good job.
I will tell you that the State of Florida right now is in the final
phases of making an award to Collier County district schools for
generators for possibly two of our high schools. And when I say a
generator, we're talking probably a one megawatt plant coming out of
there.
So some of those schools that will help us with our special needs
population, probably not this year but the following year will have
about 95 percent of the campus on backup power, which is
phenomenal. That's going to make all the difference in the world in
our ability to care for those special populations. So we've got some
good work coming out of Senate Bill 7131 under Governor Bush and
some great partnership coming with FEMA dollars.
In terms of refuge, this is always an issue in that we have a hard
time here when we make the evacuation recommendations of saying
what should be your evacuation destination. And we've been very
careful not to say destination, but we've really pointed people towards
you want to be close to an inland urban center. Even to the extent that
they may be impacted.
And the reason I say that is that I want everybody away from
surge. And my goal always is to hide from the wind but to run from
the water. Even if you're going into inland or mainland Florida and
you do experience wind and power outages, you are still less
inconvenienced than if you were down here and trapped by storm
surge waters or the impact of a storm surge event. So I can only give
that level of risk reduction in our discussion.
We talk a lot about -- we ask the question frequently, is Orlando
the point of destination? Well, yes, I think the current number for
hotel rooms in Orlando is about 110,000 available hotel rooms,
somewhere in that neighborhood. Well, any given day the Orlando
area will tell you that they stay at about 60 percent or 70 percent
occupancy in the Orlando area. So there is really not that much
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February 1, 2007
additional capacity if Orlando is the destination.
But we find out just from studies and behavioral assessments that
there is a very interesting spread here. Folks do find hotel rooms.
They go to family and friends inland and those type of things. So this
is a pretty good demographic spread here, or estimate, if you will, of
what type of shelter that folks use. And we really encourage folks to
use family, friends and other destinations. And public shelter is your
shelter of last resort.
Again, the recommendations from the assessment continue to
monitor the state's hurricane evacuation study. We'll continue to do
efforts in the farmworker Immokalee community. And we do not
have the financial resources for a comprehensive behavioral survey.
Very expensive to do. And frankly, it's not very successful unless you
do it about 90 days after landfall.
So I don't want to have another storm event just to do an analysis,
but if we do have one and we can find federal and state resources to
conduct that analysis, that will help me as an emergency planner.
Craig Miller did our transportation things. And part of the
discussion going on here is that if you'll look at 1982 and 2001 in
terms of 60-hour clearance time for Southwest Florida, 60 hours as an
emergency planning benchmark is just not useful for me. I can't do
any better than 12 or 24 hours prior to a watch or a warning because of
forecasting.
As significantly -- as significant as the improvements have been
at the National Hurricane Center, 60 hours is not the time that I need
to make those kind of decisions. I have to have a much tighter
window and we have to have additional -- anyway, 60 hours just won't
cut it, as you could understand.
Twenty- four hours as a clearance time isn't acceptable.
Remember, clearance times for me is what I kind of call everybody's
hunkered down, squared away before the arrival of gale force winds.
So I have to remind everybody, don't track the center of the storm.
Page 25
February 1, 2007
Our decision point is the outside band of the storm, wherever those 30
to 40 mile an hour winds are. So it's that outside point of the storm
and how it affects the county is what I want as clearance time.
Now, fortunately Mother Nature will always give me a little bit
of -- there's always a little flex time in there because the first band
may come around and, you know, it may be 30 or 45 minutes before
the next band comes around. But I'm looking for sustained storm
force winds, not the particular gust that comes through. And because
we've got so far to go and we have so much space inland in Collier
County. So again, that's why my evacuations concentrate from the
coast to the inland. And so I want that -- anyway, I want these
clearance times under 24 hours.
Now, the additional signage here, variable message signs and
highway advisory radios. We really want to do more in that arena,
and we have to really do more of that with the State Department of
Transportation. We hope that while we are on the periphery of any of
this Interstate 75 discussion, and we know the price tag of that is
significant, as they go into transportation or intelligent transportation
systems, we want those systems such as variable message signs or
highway advisory radios, the low power AM radio that you see on the
highway, we want all those things to be lockstep with emergency
management so that we can hit that population that's moving on the
interstate. Or if we have to, if we have a bottleneck or an accident or
something, be able to use those intelligent transportation tools for
diversion or detour. And we hope that we get the opportunity to
participate with more of that in the future.
It's important that Collier, Lee, Charlotte and Sarasota stay
networked in that transportation management. So I believe there's
some long-term plans for DOT to have a transportation management
center I believe in Lee County as part of this next 1-75 corridor effort.
We very much want to have closer ties with that transportation
management center, maybe get camera information back into the
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February 1, 2007
EOC's, look at flow, get more automated traffic counts so that we,
when we have the ability to make some changes and decisions or
change some threshold decision times, we can do that and keep that
transportation management system pumping that information out to
the motoring public. So we're working hard on that.
There is a need to do a region-wide transportation model. And
this was not the scope of this effort. This is a placeholder here to
remind us that as the state looks at this from the statewide evacuation
restudy, that this modeling has emergency managers at the table.
The interactive modeling would be nice. We don't have the
resources at this point or haven't found a way to partner with DOT to
kind of see real-time traffic counts, but we hope to do that in the
future.
General overall highway improvements. We've worked hard. I'll
give you an example. While we were counting on variable message
signs and those type of things, we were fairly successful during
Charley of actually printing up a one-page information sheet on
shelters and traffic in essential facilities in Collier County, and putting
them at the toll booths for those folks that were inbound or transiting
Collier County say from a storm from the east coast.
So those kind of things are kind of important. All those little
things to get information out, keep people moving, keeping the impact
on the 9-1-1 system as low as possible during these events.
The other thing that the folks talked with us about a little bit is
keeping an eye on the feeder routes. I know lots of discussion in the
county about our additional overpasses and access on 1-75. That's a
transportation system outside of our league. But we are anxious to
kind of see how that works out so that we can monitor evacuation
activity .
Some of the centralized computer systems on the signals, we
know that's already in place. Mr. Feder does a great job with the
SCOOP program. And we know that as their transportation
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February 1,2007
management coordinates more closely with us in the future, that's
going to be one of the key elements probably in the new emergency
operations center is that we can do lots of things there to keep things
moving for evacuation.
We want to revisit highway advisory radio. That thing has kind
of been a challenge from the state. You know Everglades radio
network, when you go down 1-75 and listen to that. Well, we are in
theory through the state and through WGCU that runs that transmitter,
supposed to be able to update Everglades radio with highway
information as it relates to an emergency.
We've got an equipment conflict there at the state level in terms
of how to update that or how long it takes to update that Everglades
radio. We're working very closely with WGCU, Dean Davey over
there, working with WGCU-FM. We're doing more -- we've got more
communication, more activity going on so that we can try to do a
better job of updating that as well.
Contraflow. Only the governor -- only the governors of the state
can order contraflow. That is not a local government decision. We
know that from experience or planning from Alligator Alley type --
tabletop discussions that it will take 30 hours, probably, to get
equipment in place to conduct a contraflow on 1-75. Well, 30 hours
prior to the decision to make an evacuation is too far out to make a
reliable evacuation decision.
So we hope that the state will continue. And I think FEMA's
really going to press the states to say hey, are there automated barriers,
controls, more intelligent transportation resources you can put in there
so on short order you can operate a contraflow if you need to do that.
As you may remember the story a couple of weeks ago where
they've painted on the asphalt the exit numbers and the mileage
numbers. Well, that is part of the contraflow effort. So that if a
contraflow lane has to be inspected in order to start contraflow, it can
be done from the air and those mileage markers can be called from the
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February 1,2007
aircraft in case there's any problem. That's part of the effort associated
with that.
Lot of discussion that we've had on the case example of Houston
during one of the hurricane events. Houston really did a good job, had
a good contraflow plan, but pulled the trigger on it too late. And that
really caused some nightmares. And you may remember some of
those news stories during one of the hurricane events.
I think the other part of this, some crossovers that this study is
recommending. We're going to share this and have shared this with
the state, FEMA, DOT folks to look at some additional crossovers.
Crossovers are a real challenge on the Alley for all the
environmental reasons and also for all the safety reasons. But having
some crossover points where you can get that contraflow started and
where you can get that contraflow back to regular traffic flow is a
problem.
But even the folks will tell you that the vast distance on 1-75, at
least exiting Collier County, if you're not careful you do nothing more
than change the queue and move the bottleneck. So sometimes it's just
better to let the traffic stay its normal course and normal pattern so
that you don't get that accumulative effect of a bottleneck, just in a
different location.
So I would rather take the risk of making as best and early
evacuation decision as I can, even to the point of knowing that maybe
30 percent of the time I could be wrong or call it too early. But I'd
rather you traveled through the regular norm of traffic than I would
necessarily do contraflow. But we do have contraflow plans, the state
has contraflow plans that they've shared with us, but again, that's a
state decision.
Just a few other things, I'll finish up. Continue our hurricane
evacuation exercises and tabletops. As you know, we're very
aggressive in that area.
Continue our training for county staff. We have a great team of
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February 1,2007
administrators and department heads. We work very well together as
we review those hurricane activities every year.
Our evacuation recommendations. Heavens, we've got -- we
actually have a pretty good boilerplate for doing that now. We have
enough experience under our belt. We can -- we're faster and better
after every storm.
Public education, public awareness. Sometimes the public gets
tired of hearing that we're not out to preach doom and gloom. We're
just telling you, get ready, be safe, reduce the consensus in Collier
County. Let us do our work, get things reopened, and we'll get you
back to pre-disaster condition and continue to enjoy a great and
wonderful life in Collier County that we enjoy.
And I have had some experience in the east coast of going
through that several times. But we do bounce back and become
stronger afterwards.
Making sure we aggressively use Collier TV. We're going to
readdress direct mail campaigns next year and see if direct mailing of
hurricane preparedness information might be better. We don't have
good attendance at our community hurricane seminars, so we may
actually look at some direct mailing opportunities this year. We've
recorded a lot of multi-media type activity, CDs and DVDs that we try
to get out at most any venue.
There is always some that will not evacuate. And that's always
the percentage that seems to find the news crew, you know, during
those kind of events. It's unfortunate but it's not uncommon. So we
work very, very hard to do that. We're in touch with the
municipalities. Our law enforcement folks are there to help us if
there's not good evacuation compliance.
I have Scripps ready that if necessary, you know, if there's a
pocket of folks that just aren't moving for whatever reason, I find out,
or try to find out. I'm not afraid for a firefighter or law enforcement to
go do a door-to-door notification, if necessary. We have multiple
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February 1, 2007
automated telephonic notification systems. Marco Island has one, the
City of Naples has one, the sheriff has one.
My telephonic notification equipment is just for the special needs
population, so I can dial them up, get them ready to go. They can
punch a number on the key pad and tell me whether they're in town,
not going to be in town, whether they need transportation, et cetera.
So we've done a good job in I think some technology in folks
maintaining their readiness posture and staying in touch with them.
The hurricane evacuation study, and that's Senate Bill 7121, I
believe I'm quoting the right number, again has done a good job.
Really, some real forward leaning legislation for hurricane
preparedness.
So a quick overview and I'll stop right there and see what
questions or concerns that you may have.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. At the discretion of this panel, I
might suggest that if you'd like we can move through the study as we
have in other documents on a page-by-page basis. If anybody has a
question, we'll stop and entertain the questions. Does that sound okay
with everyone?
Dan, in that executive summary or the hurricane study you
passed out last time, basically we'll start with the executive summary
on Page 1.
Any questions on Page 1 or 2 of the study?
Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Dan, you referenced something
as a clearance time, which is the time it takes somebody evacuating to
reach the boundary line. But that's obviously not the finish line of
their evacuation.
MR. SUMMERS: No, sir, it's not. And that's a good point. I
sort of hit on that about destination planning. And we don't focus on
destination planning, but what we think the model should do, the state
model, is actually run some scenarios out from what we deem as a
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February 1,2007
clearance time or a clearance point, if you will, as to what some
destination simulations should be.
So we want clearance from the coastal -- you know, from the
potential -- the point of most vulnerability. That's kind of as far as we
go, as long as we know that we've got people going inland and they're
going to be relatively safe.
But your point probably is that we don't have good handles on --
because we have to look at traffic modeling and forward speed, we
don't really know what clearance time is to destination. We just
haven't had it -- that's what we really hope that this state study does is
run simulations to destinations, so that if I have to adjust anything -- I
want everybody traveling during daylight hours, as an example. I
don't like to pull the trigger on evacuation recommendation at night.
We know it takes longer to do that. So we hope the new study will do
that destination modeling. And probably add some new terms for
clearance time. Probably refine that.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Dan, on Page 2, have you ever known
us to have a hurricane during what we typically term the peak season,
which is the first few months of the year?
The reason I'm asking that is because the 60 hours that's being
referenced repeatedly as unacceptable according to this document is
based on peak season residents. So I'm just wondering why we would
I base an evacuation time of peak season residential when that's not
when we have hurricanes.
MR. SUMMERS: Right. I think it is sometimes a bad habit, but
the emergency management guy, for planning purpose, and even our
consulting folks always want to put you in what is absolutely that
worst category. And so I would rather my -- because this is such an
inexact science, we lean -- and I will tell you that sometimes we're
guilty of leaning forward in projections like this maybe 20 or 30
percent, because that's the only safety factor that we have with
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February 1, 2007
whether Mother Nature increases forward speed or increases intensity
or what have you.
So we have learned that that's the only safety factor that we just
have that traditionally have built into a lot of our scenarios.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, I understand when Mother Nature
moves faster or slower. But has Mother Nature ever moved during
our peak season, that you know of? I mean, because that doesn't even
seem -- I have -- in my 30 years here I've never experienced that. I
don't know, maybe from history of anybody ever saying that's ever
occurred. So I'm just wondering really how practical it is --
MR. SUMMERS: You're talking about our peak tourist -- our
peak population period, not our peak hurricane season.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Is this referring to -- it says 1.3 million
peak season residents.
MR. SUMMERS: And that should be referring to our tourist
peak I think is a little mis -- a little clarification there, not our peak
point of our hurricane season. And we typically don't have hurricane
events during our high season.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. So you're saying the peak season
residents they're referring to are those peak hurricane season residents,
not the peak tourist season residents.
MR. SUMMERS: No, sir, I believe, as I interpret this, that we
look at -- we will use our peak population number as the base.
Granted, our population begins to reduce in that August and
September period, but I will use that peak number as my base for
planning.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: You are doing then what I was
concerned about.
I haven't -- I don't see the practicality of it, but I understand your
reasoning, so I'll just leave it at that.
MR. SUMMERS: And to be honest with you, Mr. Chairman, I
think that what we really hope for that comes out of this study in the
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February 1, 2007
next year or two, we'll be able to zoom in on that a little bit more.
Because I think either because of modeling or technology, what we
have been using are some very elementary tools in the planning. And
I think the traffic modeling and some of the new research that's being
done, what we hope to see is not a planning study for Southwest
Florida. I kind of hope that this model, at least what I think the state
plans on investing, may give us some model data down to the zip code
level. And so that's where I think we're going to make the big jump in
some of this. It may not change the overall numbers, but it will
certainly help me make some better decisions in terms of resources.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Page 3. Mr. Tuff?
COMMISSIONER TUFF: I just thought for consistency, like
you have 2,200 farmworkers that you're planning for, and in season
there's 22,000, and you don't plan for that. And now we're planning
here for this great big season and they're not going to be here. That's
the only -- I'm just concurring with you, but we're not consistent in
this study is all.
MR. SUMMERS: That's right. And that's a very -- another valid
point.
But I again our goal is to start some numbers there as thresholds
that -- and because we don't have the liberty -- you know, it's very
hard for us to react. If we make capacity changes in evacuation or
sheltering, for example, it may take me three to five years to make
those adjustments, because I have to leverage so many other partners
to get that done.
Good point, but our cycle is very slow in adjusting to capacity
changes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We're on Page 3. Dan, I've got one
question. If I'm not mistaken, this document is going to be somewhat
used as an RFP for a bigger study?
MR. SUMMERS: No, sir, this was done solely on behalf of
Collier County for Collier County. But we do know that the State of
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February 1, 2007
Florida will be addressing similar scopes of work. But this was done
just as an in-house tool.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, in the introduction, in the purpose,
I didn't find any reference in there to any suggested recommendations
to our land uses in our Growth Management Plan, as an example. And
I know there have been times in front of this commission we have
asked applicants that have brought projects forward in the coastal high
hazard area if staff has gotten your input on those plans, and we
haven't seen that happen.
Is there some way that you could emphasize in your report that
maybe your department ought to be part of some review in certain
segments of our growth management area?
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, sir, we would welcome that opportunity.
I think we struggle on the emergency management side of the house
as to really how much authority do we have in that and how much
science do we have to impose some of those concerns.
I will tell you that as you get into this report, I think one of the
quotes is that along the coastal area the only quote -- the only
reference was made is less is better. And I know the commission has
asked me for, you know, some science on that. And let me just get
that out on the open right now.
The challenge that I have with you -- and I am not in a position,
and I don't think it would be safe nor appropriate for me to tell you
how for you to make policy decisions on coastal density. I can only
tell you -- that's your policy decision to make. And I can only tell you
that yes, in that disaster -- in that hurricane environment, less is better.
But I will also tell you that in this -- in the demographics of the
coastal front here, I have a very highly mobile population. And in the
hurricane scenario I have typically fairly significant warning and lead
time.
I know from experience that folks don't always leave at the same
time. Most everybody, or a large percentage, will leave early. Some
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February 1,2007
leave late. And while we have a very busy road network, the fact of
the matter is we have a vast road network.
So I'm only concerned about getting people out of harm's way.
And once they're out of the immediate harm's way and they've got
adequate time, you know, then they can ultimately find the
destination.
So I probably don't contribute very much to that discussion and
that argument because in my emergency planning world I adjust to the
situation as it is. And I feel like that we've built enough safeguards in
timing, we've built enough safeguards in public education, public
awareness, we've seen some behavior for voluntary precautionary
early evacuation, which I think we will no doubt have proven that
works and we'll continue to do that.
So I'm in everybody's court in making the population safe. I just
can't -- frankly, I just can't give you proof positive one way or the
other on some of your density concerns. I respect your policy, but I
can't give you science on either side.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Ms. Caron, then Mr. Schiffer.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Yeah, I'm a little confused by a
comment you just made in saying that we have a vast road network.
We have two evacuation roads, one of which is about to be -- you
know, 75 is going to be under construction soon. Most of our
east-west roads currently are under construction here.
MR. SUMMERS: Understand.
COMMISSIONER CARON: I don't understand the -_
MR. SUMMERS: Good point.
COMMISSIONER CARON: -- vast road network that -_
MR. SUMMERS: When I --
COMMISSIONER CARON: -- we're talking about.
MR. SUMMERS: When I say that, let me --
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Dan, just so we know, we've got to be
careful not to talk over one another.
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February 1,2007
MR. SUMMERS: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: The court reporter can only get one of
us at a time. Go ahead, sir.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you.
The point there being is that I can still clear that immediate
coastal area fairly quickly, okay. I feel pretty comfortable that I can
get folks off the first mile or two miles of the beach front. And that's
where I always typically focus.
I agree with you that I have some challenges in that ultimate
destination, but my goal is to get folks away from that immediate
coastal risk first, as the winds approach or the storm surge begins to
nse.
So I have a continuum going on of moving people, moving
people early enough. Your argument is valid about how much -- you
know, when do I peak that capacity on those roadways.
And again, my variable for addressing that potential peak or any
bottlenecks is what we have done with the voluntary precautionary
evacuation, which again, if it takes 20 percent away from here early
before the formal evacuation period, then I'm putting less strain on the
system.
COMMISSIONER CARON: So you think you've got your
backup times charted well enough and that you're going to get enough
compliance? Because as every year goes by and especially for those
who live in the coastal high hazard area, unfortunately as every year
goes by and we only get wind events and we don't get storm surge
events, I believe, what I have seen, and I live in the coastal high
hazard area, is that every year more and more people choose to stay in
that area. And it's because we've been really fortunate in not having a
storm surge event. But when that day comes, I'm just -- I'm concerned
that people are actually following the directions that you seem to think
are adequate.
MR. SUMMERS: Ma'am, I agree with you on two fronts -- and
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February 1, 2007
let me share a little comment on that -- and that is that I do worry
about a buildup of complacency, because they have been through what
was ultimately a Category 1 or a Category 2 wind event only. So we
have to work on that complacency in public education, public
awareness about the value of storm surge. Again, folks feeling pretty
comfortable because it's only been a wind event. A surge event will
dramatically change that.
The other part that I will tell you is that -- the other part of that
equation, in my opinion, is what will happen when we start additional
construction and when we start other additional work proj ects.
Now, transportation folks are great about working with us in
advance, making sure that all lane availability is open, barricades are
in the right place and things are secure and that type of thing.
But I do worry, and I don't have -- I'm looking for the state to
really sit down with emergency management folks as we start some of
the 1-75 planning and talk about, you know, what are all of the options
and all of the lane availability that has to be there during that hurricane
season.
And I'm not a road engineer by any stretch, but I know that
maintaining capacity or being able to add capacity during construction
is going to be a very difficult cost benefit discussion to have. So I do
worry about that, and we'll have to look to our DOT folks to help us in
that court.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah. Back to the coastal high
hazard. The concern for density in the coastal high hazard, is that due
to damage or due to evacuation?
MR. SUMMERS: I would place it at evacuation. The as long as
-- I know that with adequate warning and lead time and a reasonable
level of compliance, my only concern in that density again is primarily
just getting folks out. The land use decisions are yours, and I'll respect
those land use decisions. And if I run into areas that for whatever
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February 1,2007
reason -- and again, these may be short term such as road construction
-- then I try to address those. And part of the formula that I use to
make that evacuation -- to make the voluntary evacuation
recommendation, as well as the formal evacuation.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: But essentially the coastal high
hazard area would be first notified. And they're the start of the
evacuation process. So why is the time of evacuation important?
MR. SUMMERS: The timing is there because I use that
benchmark as what I still consider as most vulnerable. So it's just
easier for me, because again, going back to the run from the water and
hide from the wind, I want to spend -- I want the bulk of my resources
and the efficiency of my message to be of those folks in the storm
surge area that because of surge may be the most vulnerable. Not
necessarily wind because it's newer construction, but maybe most
vulnerable because of surge.
So I typically start at the coast and work my efforts inland, again
with all those different forecast variables.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Vigliotti?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Dan, from what I'm hearing, it
seems like you got a handle on getting people out of the county. But
there's a bottleneck after the county that you're not responsible for,
you can't control.
Do you have any conversation with, say, Lee County, if they're
going to evacuate, to try and stagger the times?
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, sir, we do. And we do that through -- the
State Emergency Management Office has, in addition to the
conference calls we do with the Hurricane Center, we do regional
conference calls where the local emergency managers are trying to
sync up, if you will, kind of getting all the dominoes in the right
direction. We do that.
We also have State DOT and state emergency management folks
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February 1, 2007
on the line that are all working with us on capacity issues. So there is
a parallel effort there. Not only is our shop doing the evacuation
decisions and getting ready to protect our community, but we are very
closely aligned with our partners in conference calls, talking about
traffic scenarios, any particular bottlenecks or issues as we continue to
kind of watch this flow take place.
So the short answer, sir, yes, we do that.
Are there areas for improvement? Yes. We think it's in the
resources that are might be available under intelligent transportation
networks.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Moving people out of the
coastal high hazard areas is a relatively short trip as compared to, as
you say, a destination. Getting out of coastal high hazard, once they
hit 75, that bottleneck from what I see is going to be the biggest
problem for us to deal with.
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, it will continue to be a challenge. And we
do very well in terms of how we monitor, if we see issues. Our
Sheriffs Department is just fantastic in monitoring that from the
ground and in the air. Working those issues with DOT. And again,
what we have not experienced but we want to be prepared for is that if
we have to do a sudden detour for whatever reason, we have teams set
up to take care of accidents so that they're cleared immediately as soon
as humanly possible. Those type of things are done.
Working with a region, if we -- to address where there might be
exit points that may become necessary. So we're pretty good at it. I
think what we need to do is be much better at it. And we'll count on
this new infrastructure with the intrastate planning in the long term to
help us with that.
Weare on top of it. We do react to it. We try to explain to the
public that you're not going to have the liberty during the evacuation
of getting on the interstate and expecting to run in normal conditions.
But I'm quite satisfied, and I really sort of plan on that traffic on
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February 1, 2007
the interstate not doing any better than 35 or 40 miles per hour.
Frustrating to the driver, but my clearance time is not based on our
day-to-day normal interstate speed, it's based on something 30 to 40,
just to help address some of the volume issues.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Schiffer.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: And that is the day-to-day
speed, I think.
How about fuel, though? Because the biggest problem,
especially cars going slow. I mean, is there stuff the state has set up to
be fueling people? Especially fueling people without taking them off
the highway and making them come back on.
MR. SUMMERS: There are two schools of thought on that. The
Senate Bill 7121 has -- one of the other parts of that legislation
required certain fuel vendors within a proximity of an evacuation
route to be required to have a generator to pump fuel. So that's being
looked at.
The state has done a real good job in networking, much better
since the last couple of hurricanes, with the Florida's fuel. I believe
they call it Fuel Jobbers Association, the bulk fuel distribution people.
There is a full-time fuel management coordinator now that's part of the
emergency operations staff in the state to keep that stuff moving.
The state continues to address its road ranger program. And you
know the road ranger does carry a little bit of emergency fuel from
time to time. They are revisiting all of that refueling program with
DOT, trying to determine how much additional fuel can they carry in
one of those pickup trucks, or do they have some way of bringing
contract or road ranger type people in to the rest area in the event that
they exhaust fuel at slow speeds and get stuck on the interstate. So the
state has accepted that responsibility for additional fueling.
What we will do in the emergency operations center, if there is
someone that does get stranded on the highway, is not able to get fuel
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February 1, 2007
and they are a fragile -- you know, a person with special needs or
oxygen dependent or something like that, we've made provisions
where we would go and send a vehicle to bring those folks in, if they
somewhat got -- if they were frail and got stranded on the interstate.
We can address that on a case-by-case.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, Pages 4 and 5?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I have a "4" question.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead, Mr. Schiffer.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Apartment units and
multi - family units. Do you know what the difference between those
are?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, I'll have to check with the researcher on
that. I do not know. I'm not familiar with the definition on those two.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: And the thing that surprised me
is that essentially we have -- you know, add those two together, we
almost have that amount in trailers, so we have a lot of population
living in trailers in Collier County.
MR. SUMMERS: We do. And we are very -- in fact, always our
very first evacuation message deals with the mobile home community.
We know that those folks may need a little additional time to get
ready to make transportation.
Any of our persons with special needs in that first phase of the
evacuation, we sort of sort their name out by mobile home, and that's
actually the population that we address first. If they're a person with
special needs and they're a mobile home, they rise quickly to the list of
those we're going to check on first.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Pages 6 and 7?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Pages 8 and 9.
Dan, I noticed that in 9 they're talking about no hurricane has not
made landfall in recent history. What happened with Wilma? I mean,
I notice this entire report seems to forget Wilma existed. It's not added
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February 1, 2007
anywhere.
MR. SUMMERS: I think -- I have to check. I know they knew
differently. And I think they were referring to the Baker study that
was dated pre- 2001.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So none of the -- you believe any of the
information from Wilma was incorporated into this report?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, it was not available because there was not
-- because of all the multiple storms, FEMA did not -- we were not in
a cycle to do behavior analysis during that period. So that does need
to reference pre-Wilma in terms of the behavioral study.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: What was the actual effect of
Wilma on the county? Not damage-wise, but what were the winds
and what were the speeds that really were recorded in Collier? What
was the category of Wilma?
MR. SUMMERS: The official is not out. We're putting it at a
Category 3 event because we did monitor I believe a sustained gust
more than 30 seconds at I believe over 112. So I believe that will put
us in the high two, low three.
It's not unusual for the Hurricane Center to take a year or two to
actually kind of put their stamp on what the final category was. But I
would put us at the high two, low three.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Where was that, though? Wasn't
that in pretty much southern Collier? In other words, the urban area __
MR. SUMMERS: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: -- didn't have that kind of --
right.
MR. SUMMERS: Somewhat humorous, if I can just share it
with you. I know that 112 miles per hour gust was when the wind
instrumentation on this building blew off. So -- and I was there for
that and I can tell you how far it went across the parking lot. So when
we saw that failure, that's a pretty good indication, and that's what the
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February 1,2007
last recorded speed was here.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Well, this is the urban area. So
you're saying that you could say that the urban area of Collier had a
Category 3 storm on it?
MR. SUMMERS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Pages 11 and 12?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: 13, 14?
Dan, on 14 you talk about, in the third paragraph, it says the
update also reports that public shelters can only accommodate 6.6
percent of the evacuees in October. Yet I notice in your hypothetical
your evacuation rates to shelters were generally above -- were all
about 10 percent.
MR. SUMMERS: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And are we relying only then on the
school system for shelters?
MR. SUMMERS: No, and that's where I think there needs some
good question there and some clarity that's going on.
I don't think in that report they really properly addressed shelter
in terms of general population, shelter hotel/motel or private shelter or
other refuge. So that breakout is not very clear there. But we're doing
pretty well in terms of that general overall capacity, based on history.
We continue to find areas to do that.
We also -- it's real important for you all to know that when we do
these planning figures for shelters and those type of things, we use a
very large formula. We may use 45 to 50 square foot per individual
just to lay on the footprint when we all know that typically folks use __
consume in that shelter environment less space than that. But there
are other demands on hallways and restrooms and those types of
things.
So we always have room -- we always -- even in our shelter
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February 1,2007
capacity we have room, other than what we put in the plan, maybe as
much as 10 or 15 percent. But again, we just do that to keep folks a
little more comfortable.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Tuff?
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Yeah, I only noticed in all the maps
and all the diagrams and all the pictures that there's no -- a new 1-75
interchange isn't there. And I would guess that would have a dramatic
effect on everything. And I'm --
MR. SUMMERS: And it will. And again, this goes back to our
time period.
They asked me about putting that interchange in there. We
elected not to put that as part of the study. But without a doubt,
anything probably that we have on the drawing board over the next
three years will go to that state study and be figured as part of that
modeling. We just -- with the resources that I had available, we did
not put that interchange in there because we didn't have the resources
to model potential count.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, Page 15?
Dan, I've got a question about your roadway capacity
assumptions.
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I think anybody would acknowledge,
and it's know that 1-75 is not operating at its adopted level of service,
which is at C. I think it's at F. Immokalee Road has failed, based on
the last review we had, which was Summit Lakes proj ect. Quite a few
of the roads that we use as hurricane evacuation roads are operating
well below their adopted level of service.
That brings me to a section of Florida statutes which I have to ask
you about for the record. It's Chapter 163.3180(6) and talks about
diminimous impacts on the roadway system.
And it says in the middle of the paragraph -- and this was
modified in the last legislature -- further no impact will be diminimous
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February 1, 2007
if it would exceed the adopted level of service standard of any affected
designated hurricane evacuation route.
Now, we approve projects constantly in this county that are not
only diminimous but well beyond that. And they're all going to be
using the evacuation routes that we now know and we have known are
failed. How can we do that and be consistent with Florida statute?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, regrettably I don't have an answer for you
in either direction. I would tell you that I know that the emergency
management community works hard to put the signs that they have
with the resources they have available. But all we can continue to do
is ask folks in the DOT planning environment to continue to consult
with emergency management folks.
I do know that in a lot of cases the traffic engineering folks look
at a couple of scenarios in terms of, you know, what is the actual risk,
what may be the ultimate capacity.
But in terms of what emergency management brings to the table
in defending that argument or maintaining that standard, we can only
continue to provide recommendations. And we do that to the very
best of our ability, but we do not have the resources, nor do we
necessarily have the traffic design expertise to carry a lot of that for or
against our DOT planning partners.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And I've asked that question at many
Planning Commission meetings of many departments, and the answer
I've got was like the one you just provided, which is not an answer. I
understand that's the best you can provide, and I appreciate your--
MR. SUMMERS: Well, it is. And make no mistake, we do take
that planning and that concerning seriously. The challenge we run
into, just as human beings, if we have three busy years in a row, that's
one thing. Do we expect that over the next 20 years we may not need
that roadway segment once.
So I think a lot of that cost benefit and risk analysis has to be
taken into account. However, I would love nothing better than to have
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February 1,2007
those traffic movement resource availability. It would help us all
sleep better.
I do know, and again, part of that decision process, you can have
some comfort is that I will evaluate what resource capability is there.
And again, all I can do is increase watch or warning or evacuation
time because of these roadway segments that may be in stress.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: See, if we find -- if you in your
evaluation determine that today we have sufficient capacity, even
though it may not be consistent with statute or whatever to get out of
1-75, the hook that we need you to apply that brings you into the realm
of zoning is that it may be -- today 1-75 is static, it's two lanes. It's
going to be two lanes for God knows how many more years. That
means anything we can do to increase the capacity won't help us in
getting more traffic through 1-75. 1-75 is going to stay the same. But
your input would be vital in knowing if that increase in capacity is
going to change your recommendations on roads like 1-75 that are
failed and that can only take a capacity that you may feel today is
okay but with 10,000 more units coming on line next year may not be
okay.
MR. SUMMERS: Understand. And I think what we have --
where we are at this point, Mr. Chairman, is to tell you that the
planning tools that the emergency management community has had
prior to today's technology have been rudimentary at best to give you
count, or predicted count.
I think what we'll see and what I hope we'll see out of this new
state study back down to this local level is that I will have some better
input for you as you get into these scenarios in the future.
And to be honest with you, because we do this on such rare
occasions, normally with hurricanes, it's very hard for us to give you a
lot of -- we can only give you some hypotheticals. I hope that when
the state kicks into this study this next year that those hypotheticals
are really good, good numbers for you to work with.
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February 1, 2007
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Move on to Page -- Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Just a comment.
But Mark, wouldn't the local traffic be so much different than the
evacuation? I mean, it may be worse, I mean, people scurrying all
over.
But to me the day-to-day local traffic, it's hard to use that data as
to what's going to be needed in an evacuation.
MR. SUMMERS: What does occur in these models is there are
some factors -- and again, I'm a little outside of my engineering
expertise here, but there are formulas in those models that as traffic
goes to the interstate, a background traffic formula is taken into
account. And that's where we are in the neighborhood, and we do run
to the store and grab some ice and we do go back to the house or we're
refueling, so there is a background component in that modeling that
does become part of the big picture.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. That was Page 15.
Page 16?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Page 17?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Page 18, 19, 20, 21?
Mr. Kolflat?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Yes. You mentioned on this
contraflow that it takes about 30 hours to implement that from the
governor's site to do it.
What transpires there? What requires the 30 hours to make a
contraflow?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, there's discussion that a number of things
have to take place. Primarily it's getting manpower and traffic
diversion equipment in there. It may be checking -- it may be
changing barricades for the crossovers, it may be some -- a lot of
temporary emergency signage. Typically there is a requirement to put
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February 1, 2007
manpower at each overpass. Again, not too many on the alley here,
but to address that. Because lanes have to be closed.
There is also some discussion of pre-positioning fire and
emergency medical services, because again you would have one way
to the accident scene and only one way to depart. So an accident
midway, if we were counter flowing to the east coast, might require
fire and ambulance resources to go all the way to the crossover in
Broward County in order to complete a mission.
So lots of issues, primarily equipment, manpower in place to
make that happen. And also, the time to clear that road in the opposite
direction so that maintaining basically visual surveillance, that the
contraflow lane is clear.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: But it would seem to me that I
recognize the planning would take a lot of time and possibly some of
the early mobilization, but it would seem to me that implementation
could be shorter than 30 --
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, I think in reality it can happen that way. I
think the goal there, however, is that we have made it very clear at the
local government level that we are not going to commit our local
government resources in that pre-disaster event that are already
strained in preparation for the storm to manage traffic control. So
DOT and highway patrol resources have to be deployed from well
outside the community to come in here and augment. I'm not willing
to give up fire and EMS resources to man or staff that contraflow
when in fact I need them to protect me in pre-landfall, landfall and
recovery. So a lot of that time is bringing outside mutual assistance.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: It seems to me there's an area
for improvement there, but --
MR. SUMMERS: And I do think the state has run some
simulation drills. I fully expect them to do more of that, find ways to
make that more efficient. I know that the marking of the pavement has
been one effort. I'm sure that they're building -- over the years they're
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February 1, 2007
building equipment and stockpile, such as variable message signs,
those types of things, reversing -- or designing reversible signs so that
if you're on the contraflow lane you don't have to look behind you for
an information sign.
So a lot of those things are capital equipment that are probably
going to take time to get in place in future planning.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, I think we left off -- oh, take a
pause for just a moment. Cherie', we probably got a half an hour
before we can wrap this meeting up. Do you want to break or do you
want to go the half hour?
THE COURT REPORTER: Let's just keep going. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go the half hour? Okay.
Page 21?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Page 22?
Dan, under your tactical recommendations on Page 22 --
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: -- third bullet from the bottom. One of
them is to construct 12- foot inside and outside paved northbound
shoulders on 1-75.
But on Page 41, it says shoulder use plan shall be discouraged
due to concerns about reaching disables vehicles or the inability to
move disabled vehicles out of the traveled way.
Is that a contradiction?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, would you give me that reference on Page
41?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Number six on Page 41. Top of the
page. Seems in the recommendation they're suggesting shoulder use
plans for the travel lanes, but yet on Page 41 they're saying it should
be discouraged.
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, it does appear to be a contradiction. I
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February 1,2007
think the thought process there was that not only should a hardened
pull-off shoulder be made available or designed as a potential traffic
lane, but if you do that you still need to extend what I would call a soft
shoulder beyond that for access. So you may -- it may appear that you
have "X" number -- you may have four lanes across. It may be
marked as only three, but that fourth lane that appears to be a shoulder
outside the white line can in fact become a lane. Then there's an
additional shoulder for part of that rescue discussion. So I do think
that's unclear.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Page 23?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I do, Mark.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Dan, in the last sentence you
say, with strong enforcement measures and penalties to ensure timely
early mandatory evacuation. What do you have in mind there?
MR. SUMMERS: I think I think that's the consultant's opinion
about how to enforce evacuation and evacuation compliance.
There is -- I will tell you that I don't know the penalty
discussion's probably a poor choice of words. The fact of the matter is
that in those areas of extremely high vulnerability. And this is where I
talked about going door to door, it is a reminder for folks in that
door-to-door notification, if it becomes necessary, not an efficient use
or resource, but if we have to do that to remind folks that look, you
may be without water, you may be without power, you may be
without sewer. If you have to venture outside, in fact you're part of the
curfew -- you may be in violation of the curfew. It may very well be
that there's some other endangerment there to children or to an elderly
or those types of things.
So I think penalty is not a good choice, but just making sure that
we're adamant that we do everything that we can to explain and to
clearly delineate that you are in harm's way. And there is a point
where we are not going to jeopardize the life of a rescuer to come
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February 1, 2007
back in that particular environment. So we try to make that as strong a
message as we can.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: On Page 23, Dan, in your land use
recommendations, which probably are more relevant to us than a lot of
it, you talk about the high risk coastal areas and that additional issues
need to be done to have better impact on clearance time. And it says,
the options could include in-place sheltering requirements.
Now, that puzzled me, because this county has I thought long ago
not wanted shelters in coastal high hazard areas so they would not
encourage people to stay within those areas. This seems to contradict
that. Is that --
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, it's a very good question. I think really the
point of that discussion has to deal -- and we have this discussion
frequently in our trade -- in light of our experience, are there scenarios
where under Category 1, Category 2 maybe even borderline Category
3 that if we run into a capacity problem or a fast-breaking event, it
might be better to do some temporary in-place shelter, not for a surge
event but only for a wind event, where you might shelter in place in
new construction between the second and the fourth floor. And that is
just coming to some point of an assembly, more like a tornadic type
posture as one component of that.
But it's only -- our profession and our trade has not put a -- has
not yet completed enough experience or engineering to take a
high-rise building or even a mid-rise building and reevaluate what
might be done as congregate areas for temporary shelter or refuge.
So it's still on the drawing board for us. I don't know of any
community that's made that mandate. But what we do want folks to
do, again, kind of changing from hurricane to tornado. But just think
that if you have to take temporary refuge, you come to the central core
of the building and take temporary shelter.
So we're having those discussions in terms of our trade or our
industry. I really don't want you in that particular facility, but if I --
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February 1, 2007
for whatever reason, if I have a problem I'd like to have an alternate.
And that alternate might be taking some temporary refuge in the core
of new construction. And that's part of what that thought process is
supposed to cover.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Maybe I can save your department some
time. With the exception probably of Keewaydin Island, if that's not
going to be zoned for high-rises, you don't have any un-zoned,
un-PUD'd, un-permitted property that I can think of in the coastal high
hazard area that isn't already built or platted to be built with high-rises.
And it already is there. And some of them aren't built, but they're
already on the books for legitimate PUDs. I don't know how you'd
insert yourself in --
MR. SUMMERS: I don't think we could insert ourselves
retroactively, but I do know that I think our building industry, our
trade and what FEMA's doing is that we're still -- we're doing all the
right things with the wind load design that we're doing right now.
What we have a difficulty in the emergency management world
is doing overall building performance. And are there retrofit things
that can change building performance? They are very, very
expensive, very difficult for local government to make happen.
But we do know that in some scenarios, less surge that some
temporary tornadic type posture sheltering still remains a resource.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, 24, 25?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: 24.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Dan, how good is our data on
what the surge would be? And, you know, the concern I really have is
that, for example, if water does come over say the Pine Ridge, isn't the
drainage of that going to be the biggest problem? Like when we see
these tidal wave pictures out of India and we see a street with buses
and people flowing through it, that's really the water going back is
more of a problem maybe than the water coming over.
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February 1, 2007
MR. SUMMERS: Right.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: But first of all, the first question
is, how good is our data? And does it really reach that far that you
would have storm surges from a Category 5 into those red areas? I
mean, that's just so much area. And what kind of volume of water
would ever get to there?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, your question is a good one.
Let me tell you what we know about the accuracies and some of
the challenges that we have with storm surge modeling.
The bulk of the modeling that's done is done based on our basin.
Basically based from the shoreline out to the Gulf and the
typographical research -- you know, how our basin lays within the
Gulf. So what that really is, is taking, if you will, 1960 vintage U.S.
geological survey maps, those current topos, and the model, the
computer model that's done based on the volume of water over the
basin and hence the overlay.
Now, good newslbad news. Good news is that's a pretty good
planning tool for me to use. The actual scenario is that this model
doesn't take into account over land impediments to the water, doesn't
take on -- doesn't really address existing canals or drainage or
stormwater management system. So those volume calculations are
very, very weak. Nor does it really address the scouring or the
outflow when that occurs.
The good news for us is that I think that when we continue -- we
can use the canals to our benefit that we monitor that scouring again,
depending on how that water comes in and how that water leaves. So
there is some value there in our canal and stormwater management
system.
Does the model have -- will it have some inaccuracies with a real
event? Absolutely. But if I have a planning threshold that says I
know that from any point in Collier County within this event I can
expect 18 inches more -- 18 inches or more of water over land, then
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February 1, 2007
for me that's enough planning base for me to address as an emergency
manager.
We do know that the technology and the computer horsepower is
getting better. Florida State University is looking right now at some
what they're called simulated real-time storm surge modeling. The
only problem with real-time modeling is that if I get it real-time and
it's bad, I can't react fast enough to protect the public. So real-time is
- real-time for me has to be 24 hours ahead of time, not an hour before
landfall.
So it does have some challenges in it. I'll probably continue to
use this as part of our planning tool. We'll see what happens as the
technology improves. And part of this, again, this evacuation study
will also be some remapping of the basin here with some newer
technology.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Ms. Caron?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Let me finish, Mark?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I'm sorry, I didn't know you weren't
done, Brad.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: And the reason I think that's
important is that, you know, obviously you're planning and you're
staging an evacuation. How micro do you have it? In other words,
there may be areas, if you look at elevation areas of the county, they're
not matching this kind of a map. They're not even matching the
evacuation maps. So wouldn't it be wise if we really know almost,
like you said, zip code as to who should be evacuating to allow the
people to evacuate in a proper order?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, I would like nothing better than to have
that. And again, it's just, to be honest with you, at the local level it's
just the price tag of providing that has to come from some type of
federal state type resource capability . We just don't have the
horsepower, even the manpower or the computer horsepower to
generate these models. We have to typically rely on NOAA. And
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February 1,2007
several of their divisions work together at the county level to run each
one of these models.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: We're doing a water shed plan
now. Couldn't that be a module of that?
MR. SUMMERS: The module that would be most helpful would
be what happens -- again, back to the typographical data, the
infrastructure with storm water and those type of things.
When the state kicks that off and they do that, one of their
primary missions is to collect existing local data just for those kind of
resources and to put that in there. So I feel certain that they'll easily
address that with new infrastructure.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, Ms. Caron?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Yeah, I think perhaps there needs
to be both a change in terminology and thinking, because at this point
in time it's no longer 18 inches over land, it's 18 inches over
impervious surfaces. And that's got to change the way we think and
the way we calculate.
MR. SUMMERS: And very, very good point. I couldn't agree
with you more. And I think without a doubt when the land use folks
or these land engineers get together and work on that, again,
impervious surface is not really addressed well in our model.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, there's -- Mr. Kolflat?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLA T: Yes, you stress the importance
of surge, run from the surge and hide from the wind as being a very
critical factor. Yet when we get warnings over the TV and so forth of
what the status is, it's always reciting the wind conditions. It doesn't
ever state the surge conditions, to my recollection. Or at least it's not
emphasized as much as the wind.
Is anything being done to emphasize that to the public when
we're aware of these coming on?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, we work very hard on that. And that's
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February 1, 2007
actually every advisory from the National Hurricane Center has not
only wind speed, but it also addresses potential storm surge
inundation, and that comes from the Hurricane Center. And
unfortunately the local media doesn't pick up on the potential of storm
surge very well, because it's not a visual image at the time. So we
have a hard time trying to explain through the media what the
potential storm surge is.
And we also get a -- sometimes we get significant storm surge
estimates between forecasts, so that also makes it a little bit
challenging. But we are sensitive to that, we put it in our news
releases, but it's one of those things that just doesn't get a lot of
attention, because everybody can see the wind, they -- it's the visual
for the news report. And we work hard at it. But sometimes storm
surge is hard to sell in terms of making people aware.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLA T: Well, since Russell is having
dinner with the editor of Scripps, our news media, maybe he can stress
that point to him tonight.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Ms. Caron?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Yeah, I just want to follow up on
that a little bit.
I think one of the major issues and problems that we have here in
Collier County is we do not have any local television station and any
local radio station. We -- all of our media essentially comes out of
Fort Myers. And you can tell when watching and listening that that is
the case, because the focus is always there.
I bring this up not only to follow through with what Mr. Kolflat
was talking about, but also to ask about where we stand on getting a
Collier County radio station. I think this is probably one of the most
critical things that we need in this county. And partly because if you
are evacuating people from the coastal high hazard area, they can't be
watching you on Collier County television or on any television.
They're in their cars. And they need radio.
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February 1,2007
And we've had serious issues in getting information out because,
I mean, using what -- the resources we have now are woefully
inadequate to get us continuing information for local residents.
Where do we sit? I mean, I know that people have been looking
at trying to find a signal here. And I don't know where that stands right
now.
MR. SUMMERS: Very good question. Let me comment on
that.
We from the emergency management perspective would much
rather partner with our existing resource. And we've had a resource
out there all along and have had a difficult time marketing that
resource. It's been in the state emergency plan for years, and we've
worked very, very hard to resurrect it, it's just hard to get the press on
it.
WGCU-FM, which is our national public radio here, if you'll
notice, and there -- it doesn't show up in any of your pictures of the
hurricane evacuation signs, but on the interstate where you have a
hurricane evacuation sign, it's got 90.1 FM.
Well, if you'll remember during Hurricane Charley, that was the
period in which the tower on Tower Road collapsed, which had
WGCU's most powerful FM signal. I would have never bet as an
emergency manager in a million years we'd had a tower collapse and a
hurricane in the same season and not been able to get an MF station
out.
But WGCU-FM, with its dual transmitters now, an enormous
amount of power coming out of its FM station now on Tower Road
now. We have run into some generator snags. That generator will be
corrected by July or August of this year. So WGCU-FM is the Collier
County southwest Florida's emergency FM radio station. We continue
to promote that to the best of our ability.
I am in the process of completing some additional emergency
communication links from the EOC to the broadcast house at Gulf
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February 1,2007
Coast University where WGCU-FM resides. And they have that dual
transmitter.
One of the things that I want to do in addition to the new
hurricane evacuation signage is put that FM call signal on every one
of those signs. And we only have it in a few locations, and it's not
even illustrated in this report.
So I am going to ask the board this year for some additional
funding for the signs and again do some additional roll-out with
WGCU-FM. But if we can get the public steered to that -- it is our
emergency broadcast system station. If you remember EAS or EBS,
WGCU-FM 90.1 is our primary station. But we have not done a good
job of marketing that as the point to go for additional information.
And we think they've got significant -- much more powerful FM
capability now with a new tower and new generator, redundancy at
Fort Myers, that's the way to go. And that is the state plan and what
we're supposed to be using. We just have got to get that word out.
COMMISSIONER CARON: I have another question. Whose
responsibility is it then to correct the signal problems that they're
having even today? And will they be corrected in time for hurricane
season?
MR. SUMMERS: I am not aware of any particular signal
problems that they're having today. I know we test it frequently. We
listen to them through the EAS broadcast. If there's some new issue
coming up, I'm not aware and I'd be happy to be -- if you could share
that with me.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Two weeks ago, I mean, they were
announcing on their station, I'm sorry we've been having these
problems.
So, I mean, that signal unfortunately has never been consistent as
it should be. And my question is just whose responsibility is to make
sure that it is? If we're going to use that as our emergency system,
then somebody needs to be accountable to make sure that that system
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February 1, 2007
is brought up to --
MR. SUMMERS: We typically have been coordinating with
Dean Kathleen Davey at Gulf Coast University, and WGCU-FM is
under her purview there. And although I've not spoken with her
technical folks in a couple of weeks, I'll be glad to check and see if
there's anything there. But I do know they're making good progress
on some additional fine tuning at their Tower Road site, as well as
connectivity for a standby generator.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: You point out the danger of not
being redundant. Isn't there any other stations? For example, in the
morning I listen to 98.9. That obviously appears to be a local
conversation. I mean, do you have multiple stations, or can you take
over all the stations?
MR. SUMMERS: We cannot take over any of those stations.
We have great working relationships with all the broadcasters here,
but their participation in that emergency response scenario is up to
them. And they can make that decision, do they want to pay overtime
for additional on-air personalities. Or unfortunately the radio
environment is so competitive right now that while you may have a
live disk jockey or a newscast throughout the day, probably 98 percent
of the radio stations in the country go to computer and syndicated
programming after 5:00, and computer handles the commercials and
the air play and that type of thing.
So it's up to the local broadcaster to make that determination.
While the FCC charters them and licenses them to do broadcast in the
public good, I have no authority to go in there and order them to
maintain live event coverage.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Thanks.
MR. SUMMERS: I might add, also, please, Commissioners, the
other thing that is so very important is NOAA weather radio. The
tone alert radio device. I do have 24 by seven access, and can key that
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February 1, 2007
radio -- wake up that radio for an emergency broadcast. We do it
through the National Weather Service in Miami. There are provisions
now under homeland security issues that I can in fact have that radio
wake up for a local emergency message, if necessary.
So while the general public needs to continue FM, our real
lifeline in this other design is the tone alert radio, which can be done
not only for weather but for other events in the community as well.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, there's three pages left to the end
of this booklet before the appendix. Does anybody have any
remaining questions?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: On the --
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: -- well, a question in general.
When you evacuate by vehicle, when do you stop that? For example,
I mean, the worst thing would be is to have a bunch of vehicles on the
road. I mean, if you think you're going to leave vehicles on the road,
you maybe should add to the sign, you know, point car into wind, you
know.
But, I mean, what does happen at the end of the evacuation?
MR. SUMMERS: At the end of the evacuation what you hope--
what we particularly trend, again, going back to the sustained storm
force winds. We get a pulse of what's going on on the interstate and
on the highways and the traffic. We get that sort of field intelligence
from police, fire and EMS. We hear those kind of reports.
Again, we'll sort of put -- we put a message out that says now is
the time for you to be in a safe location, okay? Now, we all know that
there are sightseers and bystanders out there that will take undo risk.
But we do, when we get to that point where weather conditions are
reducing or eliminating our emergency response, that is also the very
last point where we tell everybody it's time for you to take refuge and
not be outdoors.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: So all this planning, there will
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February 1,2007
be no cars on 75 when the storm comes through?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, I can't -- I don't have that control. I will
do my best to make general recommendations. Our law enforcement
community and our public safety community will do the very best
they can to help keep people safe. Those folks that are making bad
decisions accidentally or on purpose, we do the very best that we can.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: The other question is
evacuation's really only half of the problem. What kind of
management do you have for return or -- and, you know, just once the
hurricane leaves, you know, problems are different.
MR. SUMMERS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
The reentry programs are up to the specific jurisdictions. In
Collier County, the Sheriffs Office does have his reentry plan. City of
Marco has their own control through law enforcement, and the City of
Naples will do that.
We will support them with again back to transportation
technology, variable message signs, bringing in additional law
enforcement personnel to set up traffic control points. Could be
barricades, could be a point to come in and validate your residency, to
be there to mark off particular lanes. Utilization of any vehicular
sticker or tag is up to the law enforcement agency of that particular
area. So again, we will support them, but again local officials will
make that determination based on immediate assessments after the
storm and gauge that reentry accordingly.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Because I think one of the
reluctance to leave is the fact that people don't trust the reentry
program. So you should be involved in that, shouldn't you?
MR. SUMMERS: Oh, we are. And I don't think it's as big of
issue -- I think Collier County has managed it very, very well over the
last couple of years. There are surrounding communities that did not
manage their reentry very well or even allow residents to come in and
make mitigation steps or to make emergency protective actions
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February 1, 2007
immediately after the landfall.
That's not been the case here. If we had a reasonable level of
safety and no excessive risk necessarily in a particular neighborhood
-- I don't know that anybody has been barred from daytime inspection
or daytime emergency -- you know, coming in, putting in tarps or
protecting their goods, those type of things. It's gone very well.
I've worked that scenario many, many times. And while you want
to pay attention bystanders and non-eligible contractors and those type
of things, you want to be on guard.
Generally the public, if you provide a reasonable level of support
to them to get in to make emergency repairs, protect their property,
even if it's during daylight hours, are normally generally compliant.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Murray, then Mr. Vigliotti.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: The hurricane flood level, those
North Caroline signs, they appeal to me. Do you favor those?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, I was -- thank you. I'm going to boast on
that one a little bit. That's one of my efforts from back home, so I'll
just stick that in there.
But let me tell you the value of that. We did this at Wrightsville
Beach, North Carolina. We actually went to beach access points and
road signs and did a survey to explain to folks that if we had a seven
to a 10- foot storm surge, this is where it is on the sign. This is
engineering data to tell you what you can expect.
Now, I'll tell you, I've been a little sensitive about bringing that to
Collier County. But I put it in here because it does two things.
Besides, it makes public aware of what's going on with storm surge.
This is actually a public education effort that we can receive
points from in our community rating system. So it can be prettier than
this. But it does in fact tell you what storm surge recommendations
can be, and it is one more -- it is one more sign, but it is one more
great technique to illustrate to the public the value and the concern
with storm surge.
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February 1, 2007
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I wouldn't think you'd need to
make it any prettier. It tells the story really well, I thought.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mr. Vigliotti?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Just for curiosity, why are you
concerned about bringing to Collier County that sign?
MR. SUMMERS: Well, being new to the area for one, and
learning land code and land use issues, secondly. And I think the
other point is I haven't really -- we use sea grant funding to do this in
coastal North Carolina, so it's finding a funding source, finding the
correct engineering survey point to put this. So we'd be happy to
investigate that more in the future, maybe bring up a straw man paper
out for conception for you to have a discussion.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Just one other thing. This is a
very detailed report. You have a lot of conservative figures built in it
such as the population, and I think it covers all basis. My only
concern is, from the way I'm seeing it, if I'm wrong, tell me, getting
the people -- getting our people out of Collier County out of the
smaller roads onto 75 is not such a problem. My concern is getting
them to a destination which you really have no control over.
MR. SUMMERS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Once they're on 75, it's out of
your control.
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, that is correct. And the general public,
based on our behavior analysis and experience, wants that flexibility.
N or do I have the resources or the authority to tell everyone to go to
Orlando. That's not fair for that community as a destination. I can
only list options.
And we're a little bit challenged here because of our location on
the peninsula and that Miami-Dade may in fact say okay, well, it's
time to come over here and Collier County becomes a host. Well, I
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February 1, 2007
can host shelter, and the Governor can host sheltering from one side of
the coast to the other. If we have to go due east, then the Governor
will direct Miami-Dade emergency management to assist Collier
County with host sheltering.
But once you get beyond those particular areas, I don't have the
authority to -- or it would take governor's authority to say as a
destination everyone in Collier County go to Orlando. We can only
list options, unless the Governor makes a destination determination,
which is by virtue of him designating a community as a host
community.
And for the east coast -- I'm sorry, for the west coast, we can
manage that. I suspect that in the east coast of Florida those -- that
conversation is going to have to go -- that planning's going to have to
go to a higher level.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Dan, thank you very much for your time
this morning. I think that wraps up your book.
MR. SUMMERS: Very good. Thank you for your comments
and your input. We look forward to staying in the right direction.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you, sir.
And Cherie', I'm going to be a little late in my commitment to
you by 10:30. Because we have a new business item. Mr. Adelstein?
You want to take a break now?
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: You can if you want to. Go
ahead.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, we'll take a 10-minute break then.
(Recess.)
Item #10A
NEW BUSINESS
Page 65
February 1, 2007
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, we've allowed some time for Mr.
Adelstein to accomplish something, and I guess we're about to hear
what that is.
Mr. Adelstein?
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Most governments in almost
all the courts have changed their swearing in documents. Not the one
that we use here, but the one that says that do you swear or affirm to
tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you. And
they don't end up with the word God either. Why? Because in many
cases the courts have been required to leave God out of it. And this
has been done not because I think it's right, but it is the think that is
being done. And in that respect, I would hope that we would at least
get the idea that there is a double way to do this. You can do it as
you've been doing it or you can do it as most courts do it, by stating
that they can swear or affirm and get it in there, too.
Now, that was the whole issue. And I've been at these meetings
for six years, my sixth year, and I've thought about it for a long time,
but as long as everybody was doing it this way, let it happen.
Well, I went to a trial not too long ago, two weeks ago, and it was
affirm again. And where one of the judges started it, she said oh, I'm
sorry, and then went back into the one that I have discussed, that --
because he wasn't from Florida. And this was the situation that I said
okay, let's bring it out.
Whether you use it or not, or whether we do or not, at least I
want the public, us to know that there is two ways of doing it. There
are other ways that these people have a right to say to you that this is
what they want to do, to swear or affirm, or do we want to do it like
most trial courts do now and only use that particular one. That's all
there was to this.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Do you have a personal
preference?
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: My personal preference is I
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February 1,2007
like what we do now. But the real preference is, is what is been going
into. Something that's not new now.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I understand.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: But this is basically what we
should do, yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I understand. But you don't care one
way or the other.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: I'm not going to change -- I'm
not going to shoot myself.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, does anybody on this panel care
one way or the other what the court reporters do for swearing in?
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: I would like to keep it the way
it is.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, Mr. Kolflat?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Well, I'm curious, what does the
Board of County Commissioners use?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I don't know, but I think that if we have
an option -- if they're using something that's legal, I'm just wondering,
and it's binding, what do we care?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Well, we're an advisory board
that's appointed by them, and it seems to me it might be well to be
consistent with what they are doing.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: They haven't raised the issue.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Well, I'm just curious what they
are doing, though.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I don't know. I think the court reporters
swear in for the Board of County Commissioners. So whatever she's
doing, she probably does the same, or they all do the same for all the
boards that they have.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: Yeah, but there's an
inconsistency with that. You can't compare us to the BCC. The BCC
starts in prayer, we voted not to. So one does not tie necessarily into
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February 1,2007
the other. We get to choose what we want to do.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. But the point is that there's
nobody on this board has a big heartache over the way the court
reporter swears people in, so let's just let them do what they want to do
and what they're most comfortable with. Does anybody have a
problem with that?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I never noticed it.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Me neither.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I support the idea of leaving it
alone.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay, fine. Then I don't think we need
a motion, because we're not going to do anything.
COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Okay. No, and the answer is
at least I wanted it brought before the board because it is something
that is being done this way -- in that way, rather, this way -- now for
the last few years, and nothing has happened here. That's all I was
trying to do.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you for bringing it to our
attention, Mr. Adelstein.
Is there any other business on this board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Hearing none, there's no public
comment.
Is there a motion for adjournment?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER VIGLIOTTI: So moved.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: The meeting is adjourned. Thank you.
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February 1, 2007
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:40 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION
MARK STRAIN, Chairman
These minutes approved by the Board on
presented or as corrected
, as
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY
COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY CHERIE'
NOTTINGHAM.
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